# Current Honeybee Perspective.



## Vol

A pretty frank perspective of what has happened, and is happening to honeybees and some honest insight into various responses internationally. Maybe get Coondle to ship me a Australian Queen honeybee or two.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/blog/straight-from-dc-agricultural-perspectives/a-bee-role-that-matters/


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## Tim/South

I believe it is very important that we find the cause of so many colony losses. For years I watched my Father-In-Law tend to his bees with passion. I bought his honey equipment when he was no longer able to work bees. A friend now uses it.

Bees are amazing. I will always believe they knew my FIL and knew he tended to them. He constantly checked hives and it upset him when he lost one.

About all I see pollinating now are bumblebees.


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## ARD Farm

I find bumblebees interesting. Especially the perfectly round holes they bore in my shed rafters....


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## Tim/South

ARD Farm said:


> I find bumblebees interesting. Especially the perfectly round holes they bore in my shed rafters....


Those are Carpenter Bees.

Bumble bees nest in the ground and make you thankful for a cab tractor.


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## Nitram

Helping bro get the high swarm at my place

It's nice that the government is so proactive banning pesty cides before it's determined to be a culprit. The biggest thing for us to remember Don't drift and Bee aware where your neighborhood hives are. PS those weeds in your pasture are probably flowers to a beekeeper


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## Nitram

Couple more pic of brother today. Wearing cargo shorts and upper bee netting when swarm is just off the ground doesn't wear any net. Me? No I'm in a cab praying that they don't fly threw the gaps in the weather stripping. Lol


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## Vol

This has been the very best year in many many years so far on bee expansion and honey production. I have caught 4 out of 5 swarms this year and the swarms have all expanded tremendously.

The key for me and my area is not to buy domestic package bees(store bought). Instead, capture wild swarms(feral bees) as they have already started to evolve into survivors against varroa mites and seem to be more resilient against CCD.

I bought a hive of bees from a man who started all of his apiary from one swarm of feral bees. He added another hive of feral bees and built his apiary up to 30 stands of bees. The genetics are superb for survival.

They are basically a Italian/Carnolian cross and seem to be a excellent fit for this part of the country.

Regards, Mike


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## Nitram

Sitting here thinking on genetics and nutritional diversity for bees the thought of HARP shutting down and the strength of our hives has grown with fewer dead outs and CCD


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## deadmoose

Vol said:


> This has been the very best year in many many years so far on bee expansion and honey production. I have caught 4 out of 5 swarms this year and the swarms have all expanded tremendously.
> 
> The key for me and my area is not to buy domestic package bees(store bought). Instead, capture wild swarms(feral bees) as they have already started to evolve into survivors against varroa mites and seem to be more resilient against CCD.
> 
> I bought a hive of bees from a man who started all of his apiary from one swarm of feral bees. He added another hive of feral bees and built his apiary up to 30 stands of bees. The genetics are superb for survival.
> 
> They are basically a Italian/Carnolian cross and seem to be a excellent fit for this part of the country.
> 
> Regards, Mike


How many hives do you have? How much honey are you able to extract?

And have you made any mead?


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## Vol

Usually keep 6-8 hives and I am always giving "one" away it seems. Honey extraction is solely dependant on the weather....too wet the bees will not forage.....too dry and the flowers dry up and give no nectar. I have not made any mead....but thought of it.

Regards, Mike


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## Nitram

Vol/Moose my brother is quite versed in the art of mead to the delight of many SCA members. Have such a bottle on my counter waiting a special occasion. He is perusing state certification to sell Mead as his "kitchen" / honey house already is certified.


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## ARD Farm

Tim/South said:


> Those are Carpenter Bees.
> Bumble bees nest in the ground and make you thankful for a cab tractor.


Candidly I don't know one bee from another. I just get a kick out of watching the 'carpenter bees. I find it amazing they can fly.. Look like a small blimp and buzz like crazy....

I did have an interesting experience a couple years ago. I parked my rotary rake in the back of a customer's field for a couple days. When I came back to hook it up, a swarm of honey bees had adopted the center section of the rotary rake, it was completely obscured by all the bees. I called a friend down the road who has hives, he asked me if I could drive the rake to his farm which was about a mile, which I did (hooking up the rake to the tractor carefully as I'm allergic to bee stings), anyway, I drove slowly with the load of bees and many bees following along, got to his place and just like in the pictures, he moved them from the rake into an opened hive. he told me the queen was in the middle and all the bees were 'protecting her'. I watched from a safe distance, all he had was one of those smoker pots and a hood on, nothing else.

Not for me. pretty interesting though. We get our honey from him every year btw.

I panic if I get a bee of any kind in the car or in the tractor.


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## Trillium Farm

Tim/South said:


> Those are Carpenter Bees.
> 
> Bumble bees nest in the ground and make you thankful for a cab tractor.


 Also between bales in the mow


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## Trillium Farm

My concern with feral bees would be how much "african"gene is in them


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## Vol

You should have zero concerns in Canada....way too cold for that type of genetic. They have not advanced very far in theU.S. Just basically the states bordering Mexico.

Regards, Mike


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## Trillium Farm

Thanks Mike, I do hope that they won't make it up here ever!


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## hayray

Vol how do you find feral swarms? I only have seen one once.


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## hayray

A guy who has hives on my farm says there are African bees I my area, can that be true?


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## Vol

hayray said:


> Vol how do you find feral swarms? I only have seen one once.


They will typically be a much much smaller bee....as the natural cell made by wild(feral) bees is slightly smaller than the bees that develop in man made comb....like used in domestic hives....as the larvae that develop in this "natural" smaller comb cells makes(restricts) a smaller sized bee. These can quite often be in a oddball place. What I mean by oddball is that these feral swarms will be away from a bee yard where hives are kept. I have found them out in the countryside like on a barb wire fence....someone would call and I would go investigate and see that they were the small feral bee. They are a much more hardier bee, typically the swarms will be smaller in size, but they can really build up rapidly. They typically have just a bit more defensive attitude than domestic bees but not so bad that one cannot deal with it comfortably.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

hayray said:


> A guy who has hives on my farm says there are African bees I my area, can that be true?


Well, I do not want to say that your neighbor doesn't know what he is talking about, but it would be highly unlikely as the african gene does not fare well in colder climates.

I have read that the major controlling factor of africanized bees is that they can only survive about 90 days without foraging..according to entomologists. Bees in general are inactive below 40-45 degrees....so if you have a long cold winter it will have a devastating effect on africans......thankfully.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose

Manmade problem from shipping infected bees, according to some. Don't forget to read the comments.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3433290/Humans-blame-wiping-honeybees-Trading-colonies-infected-viruses-mites-creating-epidemic.html


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## glasswrongsize

Comments?? Such as this one?

"I do my bit each summer. I have a little container I once bought for hatching caterpillars. Whenever I see a bee in trouble I bring it indoors and put it in the container with a piece of kitchen roll soaked in a mix of cooled boiled water and sugar. I grow Arum Lilies which they love so I pick off one of the flowers and put that in too. Then I just put it in a quiet place overnight or maybe an extra day if it's too cold then I take them a wild flower garden nearby and release them. It may be that it's in vain and they soon die anyway but I like to try to help anyway."

Makes me wanna go soak my head. Thanks for posting though, I had not seen this thread and found it very interesting. I have a couple of hives and really enjoy them. Both hives are set by the Ladino clover field and the bees are happy, happy, happy.Home procured honey and home made maple syrup sure can make breakfast something to behold.

73, Mark


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## deadmoose

How much work is honey extraction? Every time I think about it I try to buy a quart of local honey. Haven't seena any in awhile so I boughtsomenon local today.


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## Vol

deadmoose said:


> Don't forget to read the comments.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3433290/Humans-blame-wiping-honeybees-Trading-colonies-infected-viruses-mites-creating-epidemic.html


Most of those comments are made by jar heads....uneducated at that.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

deadmoose said:


> How much work is honey extraction?


A heck of a lot of work......people get into to honey bees because of the honey.....and people get out of honey bees because of the honey.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose

Vol said:


> Most of those comments are made by jar heads....uneducated at that.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yessir. They are! The ones I made it through looked like they knew as much about honey production and beekeeping as a Democrat knows about fiscal responsibility.

In fairness to the commentors, ey probably know more.


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## deadmoose

Vol said:


> A heck of a lot of work......people get into to honey bees because of the honey.....and people get out of honey bees because of the honey.
> 
> Regards, Mike


As long as my sugar making stays as it is, I will probably stay away from bees. If something changes, maybe time for consideration.


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## Vol

Found this very odd about all the bee talk today......I treated my bee's with Oxalic acid today! I vaporize each hive with 2 grams of OA and it will kill both kinds of mites and hive beetles.....but not the bees. Oxalic acid is extracted from plants like Shamrocks and others....thus it is actually organic. If you treat this time of year you get rid of all the mites before the hive starts rearing brood. This OA treatment is the best thing that has happened to bees in 25 years.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose

Vol said:


> Found this very odd about all the bee talk today......I treated my bee's with Oxalic acid today! I vaporize each hive with 2 grams of OA and it will kill both kinds of mites and hive beetles.....but not the bees. Oxalic acid is extracted from plants like Shamrocks and others....thus it is actually organic. If you treat this time of year you get rid of all the mites before the hive starts rearing brood. This OA treatment is the best thing that has happened to bees in 25 years.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Hope it works out for the best!


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## Farmineer95

Just wondering, how many here have bees?
I plan to start one hive as a family project. My family and a couple others will be doing a hive as well. Until I was interested I didn't know many people who have bees. Asking around my home area I found 3 others that run bees. Two have the extraction equipment one of whom is willing to help me get started. Cool. Been reading up on it and going to take a couple classes offered locally. 
Any pointers for a new comer?
We just put the foundation in the frames, bees are due mid april. 
Thanks in advance.


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## deadmoose

Farmineer95 said:


> Just wondering, how many here have bees?
> I plan to start one hive as a family project. My family and a couple others will be doing a hive as well. Until I was interested I didn't know many people who have bees. Asking around my home area I found 3 others that run bees. Two have the extraction equipment one of whom is willing to help me get started. Cool. Been reading up on it and going to take a couple classes offered locally.
> Any pointers for a new comer?
> We just put the foundation in the frames, bees are due mid april.
> Thanks in advance.


Good luck in your new venture. Let us know how it goes.


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## Fossil02818

This is something that I have been considering. Anyone out there have experience with this?

www.honeyflow.com


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## Nitram

Fossil02818 said:


> This is something that I have been considering. Anyone out there have experience with this?
> 
> www.honeyflow.com


Absolute rip off. First thing to do is take classes in your area from local keepers contact county extension office for help finding classes. To do anything one must acquire as much info on processes that have worked in the past.


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## Nitram

My brother has a Facebook site Vinduska Apairies. He teaches classes and is very helpful .


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## Farmineer95

From what I understand about the honey flow the queen is free to roam the whole hive. That means eggs in the honey. Was told to stay away from them.


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## Vol

Farmineer95 said:


> From what I understand about the honey flow the queen is free to roam the whole hive. That means eggs in the honey. Was told to stay away from them.


Queen is free range.....but she generally does not like to lay in the upper boxes....mainly lower.

One can use a Queen excluder to "screen" her out of any boxes above the excluder but they are very hard on the workers bees wings and wear them out prematurely....shortening their short lives even more. I don't use them as do not many others.

Regards, Mike


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## Nitram

This was posted by brother today hopefully it works enjoy


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## mlappin

Nitram said:


> Couple more pic of brother today. Wearing cargo shorts and upper bee netting when swarm is just off the ground doesn't wear any net. Me? No I'm in a cab praying that they don't fly threw the gaps in the weather stripping. Lol


I have a friend from high school that keeps bees. He doesn't have the problems with colony collapse like others, but he also never feeds sugar, his survival rate is over 90%. He doesn't own any kind of bee clothing including a hood.


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## Swv.farmer

My granddad has been keeping bees for 70 years and just wears his regular clothing uses a little smoke.
He dose nothing for mites and dose not use fondation comb he says that is why he doesn't have trouble with mites.


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## Vol

Swv.farmer said:


> My granddad has been keeping bees for 70 years and just wears his regular clothing uses a little smoke.
> He dose nothing for mites and dose not use fondation comb he says that is why he doesn't have trouble with mites.


I do the same many times except when I am taking/robbing the bee's honey.....they get a little ill at those times. Many folks now are not using man-made foundation because the cell size is larger....the natural made bee cells are slightly smaller and helps the bee knock any mite off its back with the snug fit. What is his favorite type of honey that is made in his area?

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

Sour wood it's almost clear like water.


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## Vol

My favorite! Maybe I could buy some from him this fall? I love Sourwood and I really like eating it from different regions.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

If it dose good and we have a good bloom you send me your address I'll send you a quart.


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## deadmoose

How much difference is there in the flavor of honeys?


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## mlappin

My friend would love to bring a few hives out for the alfalfa blossoms, told him if I'm doing my job right there won't be many blossoms before its cut.


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## Vol

deadmoose said:


> How much difference is there in the flavor of honeys?


Quite a bit moose, my favorite honeys tend to come from tree blossoms....although there are some good flower/wildflower blossom honey.

Some honeys can be very dark....like Poplar and Buckwheat.....some can be very light in color like Sourwood and Locust...and some can be very gold like Clover and many others.

Some honeys types tend to crystallize pretty quickly like clover.....some will almost never crystallize like Poplar and Sourwood.

Over the week end while out-of-town I went to a store in downtown Asheville, NC called the Asheville Bee Charmer....they sold all kinds of honey and household accessories for honey. I tried a honey from Romania called "Acacia".....made from Black Locust trees....it was excellent. Very light amber color....like good Sourwood.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose

Sounds like I need to find different places to buy honey. And multiple kinds to compare.


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## Swv.farmer

In my opinion the darker the honey the stronger it is.

But I love the pepper honey out of Florida.


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## Farmineer95

What do bees feed on for sourwood honey?


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## Swv.farmer

On a sour wood tree. It's a typ of gun tree..


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## Vol

Farmineer95 said:


> What do bees feed on for sourwood honey?


Like Swv said, Sourwood trees....the bee's gather the nectar from the Sourwood flower on the tree when it blooms which is typically in July for just a few short weeks. Some years are better than others just like everything else. If it rains a lot during this time, the bee's do not make much Sourwood honey as they do not gather in the rain.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

Yea. it's feast or fammien. Either hits really good or really bad seems like their is no in between.


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## Farmineer95

The bees are in the hive. Checked on the box today, food supply. Must have been a bit cool for them today. They didn't buzz too much. They were feeding the queen as she is still in her cage with the marshmallow cork.

Took the two oldest kids to the local nature center yesterday. They installed 3 hives. Kids watched the group install the bees. Pretty surprised as comfortable they were, they were suited up and right in with the group.
Pretty neat.


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## Vol

Just make sure the cork is completely removed and that the sugar candy seal is all that is between the bees and the Queen. How long has the Queen been in the cage since the cork was removed?

Regards, Mike


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## Farmineer95

Removed the cork monday. (2 days ago). My understanding is it may be a couple days before she gets out of her cage. Does that sound right?


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## Vol

Farmineer95 said:


> Removed the cork monday. (2 days ago). My understanding is it may be a couple days before she gets out of her cage. Does that sound right?


Yes, just keep a eye on her.....check her tomorrow and if there is still a lot of candy in the escape hole CAREFULLY bore about a 1/8" hole in the center of the candy and that will speed up the process. The bees are usually very acceptable of the new Queen after three days. She should be just about released by the workers tomorrow I would think. Shoot me a PM if I can help you with anything at all.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

The locust bloom is coming in heavy. Looks like a good honey flow


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## Vol

Swv.farmer said:


> The locust bloom is coming in heavy. Looks like a good honey flow


Here also.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

This is what a 9 pound swarm of bees looks like 25 feet up a White Pine.....my son and I caught them last week and my other son in Georgia took them home with him today.....the bees that you order from Kelly or Brushy Mountain weigh about 3 pounds and are expensive.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

Nice looking swarm i'm a little jelly I'd like to have 10 swarms like that.
I split 2 hives yesterday hope everything goes good.


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## azmike

My sons captured a swarm this week. We have several pass over the farm daily, sometimes they stay a day or so mostly just keep flying by. The farm is low in the draw and I guess it is a desirable area? Patrick does make mead.


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## Farmineer95

The queen is out if the cage. Bees were busy. Its sunny and 50 degrees. Not much for blossoms except dandelions. Some flowering trees are just starting. Bees are feeding on sugar water. Does it matter if its cane or beet sugar?


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## Swv.farmer

I always use cane but I wouldn't think it would matter.


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## Farmineer95

Biggest concern I have about beets is pretty sure they are big time GMO. Wondering if that is a bad thing.


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## Hugh

There are over 4000 species of bees native to North America.

"Honeybees," at least the ones in the news today, were imported from Europe about 400 years ago. If these European bees were smuggled in twenty years ago, they would be considered an "INVASIVE SPECIES," and the EPA and Feds would be going nuts about how humans are wrecking the planet. However, these bees are now considered Holy, and the current propaganda is: "Humans are killing the precious bees with Chemicals!" Notice that banning some pesticides to save an invasive species is sort of wacky, but the control of your property is the underlying goal, and 99% of Americans are stupid enough to fall for these scams.

Moreover, I sort of doubt there is a bee crisis. After all, the stores are crammed full of produce. Maybe global warming will save them.


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## Vol

There is not a "bee crisis", but there is a honeybee crisis and it was started about 30 years ago when asian mites first came to this country on cargo. Now we have multiple things impacting the European honeybee and I am not sure if man is the primary cause....but it would not be surprising if we are impacting the honeybees. I can absolutely positively attest for the honeybees being in a crisis situation. I know first hand.....it is no scam.

I guess we need to kill all of us non-native species that have came into this country and took it away from the native americans.

Regards, Mike


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## Hugh

Vol said:


> There is not a "bee crisis", but there is a honeybee crisis and it was started about 30 years ago when asian mites first came to this country on cargo. Now we have multiple things impacting the European honeybee and I am not sure if man is the primary cause....but it would not be surprising if we are impacting the honeybees. I can absolutely positively attest for the honeybees being in a crisis situation. I know first hand.....it is no scam.
> 
> I guess we need to kill all of us non-native species that have came into this country and took it away from the native americans.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike,

I agree there is a big problem with honeybees - the mites, viruses, pesticides, etc. However, I believe the word, "crisis" is over used. If bee pollinated produce was hard to get, if apples were triple the price because of the lack of bees, if we couldn't get almonds or apricots or melons in the stores, if there were long lines to buy these products, if growers had to hire people to hand pollinate blossoms, then I would say that 'crisis' might apply. The problem for me is a political one. Everything is becoming a crisis, and these hyped crisies become the justification for more and more government.

The bee problem is being worked out. There are controls being developed for the mites. Fruits are getting pollinated, the stores are crammed with produce. Honey is cheap. I'm not worried.


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## Swv.farmer

I don't know where you are buying honey but I don't consider 8 dollars a pound cheap.


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## Hugh

Swv.farmer said:


> I don't know where you are buying honey but I don't consider 8 dollars a pound cheap.


I don't know where you are getting that price. Wholesale prices are for the most part under $2 per pound.


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## Swv.farmer

Well around hear it 12 bucks for a quart.so about 8 bucks a pound.


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## Hugh

$4 per pound. Honey weights 12 pounds per gallon. This equals 3 pounds per quart. $12 divided by 3 pounds = $4 per pound. You can search historical honey prices and see that in 1975 the wholesale price of honey was about 45 cents per pound, and todays wholesale prices are about $2.00 per pound. Look at everything else, gasoline, new cars, houses, etc, and you will see that honey has increased in price about the same as everything else. There is no crisis in honey prices.


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## Vol

Hugh said:


> The bee problem is being worked out. There are controls being developed for the mites. Fruits are getting pollinated, the stores are crammed with produce. Honey is cheap. I'm not worried.


Would you care to share with us how the honeybee problem is being "worked out"....last time I checked, scientist and entomologist were no closer in explaining colony collapse syndrome than they were 5 years ago.

There have always been controls for mites.....just not effective enough without polluting the honey product or damaging the bees. There is a strong possibility that Oxalic acids will control one damaging type of mite....but there are more than one species of mites to deal with.

Yes honey is cheap because of imports from China...... in 55 gallon drums. China does not have restrictions on what chemicals they treat their fruits and vegetables with compared to US or European honey and the bees are carrying these chemicals from the plant to the honey hive. Lots of this Chinese honey on the shelves cheap.....if that is your desire.

I can see that you are not worried.

Regards, Mike


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## Hugh

"....if that is your desire..." I'm guessing that is an insult towards me, that I desire cheap imports from China. The prices I gave were US produced honey. 100% Montana clover honey is selling for 1.75 at the moment, look it up. It is not my duty to explain how the bee problem is being worked out, but I have recently run across several articles that are encouraging. For example, the U of Ga. published an article showing that simply mixing sugar with Crisco will go a long way in controlling mites.

The economics of the issuer are clear: Honey is about the same price for the last 40 years, (adjusted for inflation) everything is getting pollinated, and there is no "crisis." To claim there is a bee crisis is like the climate change crisis, the peak oil crisis, etc, it is hyping the issue. The Black Plague that devastated Europe a few hundred years ago was a crisis, it killed about 100 million people. The US Navy had a crisis at Pearl Harbor. I believe the honeybees have a big problem, but crisis - no.

The crisis word is really subjective in many ways. Some people would scream "crisis" if they ran out of Pampers or cigarettes. We we can't get food, when people are hungry and are looting your house to get food, and all of this is due to the honeybee problem, than we have a crisis. My views...


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## Vol

The word "crisis" was not used in this entire thread until you brought it up....nationwide in the last 5-7 years we are losing about 1/2 of the honeybee colonies every single year. We get them built up in the spring and summer only to lose them in the fall and winter. This is called Colony Collapse Disorder. If the scales tip further against the honeybee than the approximate 50% losses annually the result will be devastating for the honeybee.

There are several lethal combinations going against the honeybee right now....and the mite is actually the least deadly....the CCD being of unknown origins is by far the greatest threat.

As far as the statement I made, "if that is your desire", was not a insult directed toward you, it was a statement referencing cheap honey....from China loaded with unknown chemicals. Meaning if one wants cheap honey, it's available....but with some unknown additions.

A annual 50% loss of population of honeybee is at a crisis stage for them....if losses start going over 50% annually then it won't be long before the American honeybee is gone.

Much of the world is experiencing CCD in honeybees.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Most of our forage meetings start with talk about declining numbers of honeybees......I don't know whether it's a problem that manifests itself every few years or a new problem caused by us Farmers or we could bring the chemical companies into the fray......either way I believe it to be real, but like Hugh, usually the market will adjust with supply and demand, I've seen a bit of a tic up but not substantially......one things for sure, we need them bees.....and I like their honey


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## Hugh

In the last few years of the internet, word travels fast, and many times it travels where it never would have traveled before. We hear more information than ever. Colony collapse has been around for a hundred and fifty years. It wasn't a crisis then, nor is it now. Here an article documenting this fact. http://ento.psu.edu/pollinators/publications/underwood


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## Vol

Hugh said:


> In the last few years of the internet, word travels fast, and many times it travels where it never would have traveled before. We hear more information than ever. Colony collapse has been around for a hundred and fifty years. It wasn't a crisis then, nor is it now. Here an article documenting this fact. http://ento.psu.edu/pollinators/publications/underwood


So your one article makes it the defining word.....and all of the other scientific articles on this subject that says the honeybee is in trouble and that the cause is uncertain and unknown is bull shit? You might want to check your math....again.

Regards, Mike


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## Hugh

This article is from Penn State's entomology dept, and it cites reports of colony collapses from 1868, 148 years ago, and many collapses since. It doesn't take many articles to point out that colony collapse has happened before, all we need is this one article that cites references from which it obtained the information.

If you reference 10,000 recent scientific papers about colony collapse, this doesn't refute the fact that the Penn State paper shows that this problem has been going on a very long time. The Penn paper cites articles written 148 years ago, 144 years ago, 110 years ago, 106 years ago, etc, etc, and these reports are worldwide. It is very easy to understand that this colony collapse problem is not a recent crisis, but has been going on a very long time. The upshot is that we just haven't known about these things because of the lack of the internet 148 years ago, the rural locations of farms years ago, and the lack of interest by newspapers of the time.

Seems to me, that it is also possible that this could just be a trait of bees. Could be that they have been collapsing for thousands of years. Based on the Penn State article, this idea seems plausible.

The main point is that colony collapse has been around a long time before modern pesticides, pollution from automobiles, etc, and that if there is a crisis, it has been going on for *at least* 148 years.

I view the word "crisis" as meaning a short term and very big problem. "House on fire with children inside," would be an example. Now, if I found that that house had been burning for 148 years, I would see it as a curiosity, not a crisis.

Quoting the article:

"....The first published record of this disorder appeared in 1869. An anonymous author reported loss of bees which left behind hives with plenty of honey. It was speculated that the death was due to a lack of pollen, poisonous honey, or a hot summer [4]. Subsequently, Aikin [5] described losses in Colorado in 1891 and 1896 where large clusters disappeared or dwindled to tiny clusters with queens in May, hence the name "May disease". Investigations at the time identified various fungi with these collapses. Burnside [6] was able to isolate, culture, and reproduce symptoms very similar to CCD with a strain of Aspergillus fungi....

"....In three epidemics between 1905 and 1919, 90% of the honey bee colonies on the Island of Wight in the United Kingdom died [13, 14]. Bees afflicted with this disorder could not fly, but crawled from the entrance [15, 16]. Researchers disagreed as to the cause of this affliction. Some concluded that the losses were due to acarine disease or the honey bee tracheal mite, Acarapis woodi [13]. Others believed that starvation was the cause of the losses [14, 17]; while still others thought Nosema disease caused the high losses [18]. Some affected beekeepers over the years have blamed their losses on the so-called "Isle of Wight disease..."

"...In the Stawell district of Australia in 1910, 59% of colonies were lost and many more were severely weakened [19]. Beuhne [19] noted that colonies that did not have their honey

extracted and that were allowed to gather honey late in the season did especially poorly. He concluded that honey made from Eucalyptus leucoxylon was too high in moisture, presumably fermented, and so was not suitable for consumption by the bees [19]. The author also mentioned that reliable accounts of severe losses from as far back as 1872 have been noted "at intervals of some years" [19]...."

"...Instances of large-scale losses were also reported in 1915 in Portland, Oregon [15] and from Florida to California in that same year [20], but these losses were not well documented. In 1917, widespread losses were reported in New Jersey, New York, Ohio, and Canada..."

"... In Australia, losses were high in 1975 [26]. Termed "disappearing syndrome..." Read the whole article: http://ento.psu.edu/pollinators/publications/underwood


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## Farmineer95

Mmmm honey. Man is there a difference between store bought and home grown.


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## Trillium Farm

Vol said:


> This is what a 9 pound swarm of bees looks like 25 feet up a White Pine.....my son and I caught them last week and my other son in Georgia took them home with him today.....the bees that you order from Kelly or Brushy Mountain weigh about 3 pounds and are expensive.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vol said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a 9 pound swarm of bees looks like 25 feet up a White Pine.....my son and I caught them last week and my other son in Georgia took them home with him today.....the bees that you order from Kelly or Brushy Mountain weigh about 3 pounds and are expensive.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know if they have been hybridized by african bees?
Click to expand...


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## Vol

Trillium Farm said:


> Vol said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a 9 pound swarm of bees looks like 25 feet up a White Pine.....my son and I caught them last week and my other son in Georgia took them home with him today.....the bees that you order from Kelly or Brushy Mountain weigh about 3 pounds and are expensive.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vol said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what a 9 pound swarm of bees looks like 25 feet up a White Pine.....my son and I caught them last week and my other son in Georgia took them home with him today.....the bees that you order from Kelly or Brushy Mountain weigh about 3 pounds and are expensive.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know if they have been hybridized by african bees?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

They will sting the crap out of you.....

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

Those are beautiful.
Kinda makes a man a little jelly.
I hope they make you a ton of honey.


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## Farmineer95

Mite away strips? Anyone use them? Supposed to not harm honey. I did a check for mites and found a few. I have one box full and added another for a total of 3 medium honey supers. Put a bee escape board under the full super that I moved to the top.


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## Vol

I use oxalic acid exclusively....but I take my honey off if I have any at the time while fumigating....wait a couple of hours and then sit it back on if I am so inclined.

Regards, Mike


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## Farmineer95

Lotsa bees...
Mmmmm honey

I think it is one of the neatest things I've seen.

I don't know how anyone can study or learn about them and still believe in the "theory" of evolution.
Don't mean to start a crusade here but the more I learn away from public education the more I believe in creation and talk openly about it.

Quiz time: name the thing behind the hive, just noticed it.lol.


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## Farmineer95

Had a good yead for a novice beekeeper. 2 daughters and I kept the hive this summer. Ended up filling 4 medium supers, bottled a bit over 10 gallons. Had a strong hive. Hope to winter the bees. The daughters seemed pretty interested for a 6 and 8 year old. Hoping its something we can do for a long time. Next year we'll get another hive. Neat part about extracting was we had a whole crew of people that wanted to check it out too. Of course since they helped they had to take some honey home.


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## Trillium Farm

Have just watched about a new product that has come to market and measures the number of bees coming into the hive vs the number going out thereby giving the beekeeper advance notice if something is amiss and colony loss could be averted


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## Vol

Neonic ruling....from DTN.

Regards, Mike

https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/article/2016/11/23/judge-force-epa-regulate-seed


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