# Government Motors gets away with murder



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone see this? 
Gubmit Motors will escape liability and most lawsuits for the 84 people who DIED driving GM vehicles with faulty ignitions? 
Turns out the vehicles were built BEFORE the govt bailed them out of bankruptcy, so the lawsuits and mostly being thrown out. 
Sounds like the government doesn't want to pay the lawsuits to me. They are estimated at 10 BILLION dollars!!! 
Wonder if Toyota or Ford would get away with that?
I will NEVER buy another GM vehicle.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

. Go ahead....start spinning....we all know it's coming.

Regards, Mike

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/27/autos/biggest-auto-recalls/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Anyone see this?
> Gubmit Motors will escape liability and most lawsuits for the 84 people who DIED driving GM vehicles with faulty ignitions?
> Turns out the vehicles were built BEFORE the govt bailed them out of bankruptcy, so the lawsuits and mostly being thrown out.
> Sounds like the government doesn't want to pay the lawsuits to me. They are estimated at 10 BILLION dollars!!!
> ...


Because I'm not a news watcher or listener....no I haven't seen it, when was the problem and what kinda problem was it that killed 84 people? Always amazed me when the recording came out of the guy in the Toyota that claimed to have unintended accel....why didn't the guy just reach down and shut off the ignition? I know that may not have come immediately to mind but that feller drove for quite a ways talking to 911? Never could quite figure that one out.....
I woulda thought the Ford Pinto woulda been one of the largest recalls.....very serious problems in the event of a rear collision. A bad day was finding yourself in between a Pinto and a Volvo (unintended accel) back in '79......


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Or slip into neutral? Turning the key off "could" lock the steering wheel. The reason the unintended acceleration was such a problem was some people have no business behind the wheel anyways. I've had the throttle springs break once or twice on a straight truck, pedal usually goes right to the floor, didn't wreck it trying to get stopped and didn't sue anybody over it either.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

A good friend of mine works at a Chevy garage. The ignition lock cylinder is never a problem until someone hangs 20 pounds of crap on thir keychain. Supposedly the weight bearing down on that screws up the contacts on the lock cylinder.

It's no excuse for the death of 84 people, however, I don't believe GM needs to make every vehicle idiot proof either.

Whenever something is idiot proof, they just make a better idiot....


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

..
I woulda thought the Ford Pinto woulda been one of the largest recalls.....very serious problems in the event of a rear collision. A bad day was finding yourself in between a Pinto and a Volvo (unintended accel) back in '79.......................................................................................................... and you are in a mid engine .Pontiac Ferraro .. that would be the true definition of a shit sandwich


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

stack em up said:


> It's no excuse for the death of 84 people, however, I don't believe GM needs to make every vehicle idiot proof either.
> 
> Whenever something is idiot proof, they just make a better idiot....


Stack as Ron White say's "You Can't Fix STUPID "


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

snowball said:


> Stack as Ron White say's "You Can't Fix STUPID "


Don't know who that cat is but......he's right


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Don't know who that cat is but......he's right


Look him up. Tater salad is a funny guy.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I was going to post a youtube link. But he isn't exactly pg13 friendly.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> Don't know who that cat is but......he's right


somedevildawg.. your break'n my heart..he was with The blue Collar Comedy Tour , Larry the Cable Guy and Bill Engval the other one from your St that does "you might be a red neck "jokes.. Do I need to come down there and pick you up in the new Chevy pick'em up truck and take ya on a cross country tour.. maybe end up in Az. and see if we can get on a Police dept. good cop bad cop team ?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Vol said:


> . Go ahead....start spinning....we all know it's coming.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/27/autos/biggest-auto-recalls/


It wasnt my intent to say anyone else never had a recall.
What I am saying is that I find it a bit "convenient" how GM, a government subsidiary faces no lawsuits, civil or criminal, in 84 DEATHS. That's a lot of deaths! 
You can roll your eyes all you want, but if it was a competitor of GM, they would be sued like the government sued Toyota over faulty accelerator pedals.
Toyota got royally screwed by Holder and Obama because they put such an ass whoopin on GM every year.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> It wasnt my intent to say anyone else never had a recall.
> 
> What I am saying is that I find it a bit "convenient" how GM, a government subsidiary faces no lawsuits, civil or criminal, in 84 DEATHS. That's a lot of deaths!
> 
> You can roll your eyes all you want


 Ford Motor, which in 1980 recalled 21 million vehicles from 10 model years for a problem that caused some vehicles to slip from park into reverse.

Records show Ford's solution for that problem, which investigators linked to 6,000 accidents and nearly 100 deaths, was to send drivers a warning sticker to put on the dashboard.

THATS ALOT OF DEATHS!

Regards, Mike


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I wounder how many suicidal attempts and death's ford is responsible since 04 in relation to the ownership of the power stroke motor.. when the owner find themselves completely upside down on the truck with a bad motor, and look for death as the best alternative ?? hard to put and number on that


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You ought to revive that blue collar comedy tour. Your Ford woes rival Ron white's tater salad bit.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

How much you want for that truck Sno.......I might be a buyer just so ya don't have any more material.....


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> You ought to revive that blue collar comedy tour. Your Ford woes rival Ron white's tater salad bit.


deadmoose I got to joke about how stupid I was to keep buying them POS other wise I would become just another suicide statistic.. I could maybe relate to his bar room brawl bit about when the cops run his ID. LOL. I like his Tx. express lane death row bit too.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> How much you want for that truck Sno.......I might be a buyer just so ya don't have any more material.....


Dawg a/k/a/ Uncle Gene... how about I make a police cruiser out of it.. and we go on patrol with it.. we might get shot because it's not dependable but we sure could have fun mowing down bad guys


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Vol said:


> Ford Motor, which in 1980 recalled 21 million vehicles from 10 model years for a problem that caused some vehicles to slip from park into reverse.
> 
> Records show Ford's solution for that problem, which investigators linked to 6,000 accidents and nearly 100 deaths, was to send drivers a warning sticker to put on the dashboard.
> 
> ...


Obviously this is a Ford vs Gmc issue to you.
To me, it's the government protecting one of the companies it bailed out issue.
Unfair protection for GM while others would face billions in losses. 
I own 2 GM trucks and 1 Ford. I don't have any brand loyalty. 
Sorry you're taking this so personally.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

snowball said:


> somedevildawg.. your break'n my heart..he was with The blue Collar Comedy Tour , Larry the Cable Guy and Bill Engval the other one from your St that does "you might be a red neck "jokes.. Do I need to come down there and pick you up in the new Chevy pick'em up truck and take ya on a cross country tour.. maybe end up in Az. and see if we can get on a Police dept. good cop bad cop team ?


Lol, you won't pick me up in a Chevy, I'll break out in hives and the truck'll break down b4 we get out of the state........wouldn't catch me in one ifn it was give to me, someone might see me in it and ruin my rep. But I'll pick ya up in the Ford and drive ya to Az if ya can arrange it.....I wanna be the bad cop tho


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Someone has a friend in a high place. Just as easy could have been Ford. Or Chrysler.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

This pretty much sums up GM's problem but it's a long read:

http://pando.com/2014/10/18/gms-hit-and-run-how-a-lawyer-mechanic-and-engineer-blew-the-lid-off-the-worst-auto-scandal-in-history/

This young lady kept a notes of problems with her Cobalt most of which from what I understand were brushed off by the dealer.

"Melton had purchased the white GM Cobalt in 2005, the year the four-cylinder compact first rolled out of factories, and lately it had been giving her trouble. A week earlier the engine had unexpectedly shut off. Melton managed to pull over to the side of the road and restart it, but the incident shook her. She phoned her father, who advised her to bring the car in to the local dealership. So she wouldn't forget, Melton scribbled a list of the problems in a notebook: "Key locking in the ignition," she wrote. "Suddenly shutting off while driving and unable to turn vehicle." Under "strange knocking sound" she underlined "ignition problems." Mechanics at the dealership assured her nothing was wrong, and after cleaning the fuel injection gave Melton back her car a few days later with a clean bill of health......."


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, you won't pick me up in a Chevy, I'll break out in hives and the truck'll break down b4 we get out of the state........wouldn't catch me in one ifn it was give to me, someone might see me in it and ruin my rep. But I'll pick ya up in the Ford and drive ya to Az if ya can arrange it.....I wanna be the bad cop tho


Don't try it in a 6-leaker. It'll blow a head gasket before you get there.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> Someone has a friend in a high place. Just as easy could have been Ford. Or Chrysler.


I think the whole thing stinks. GM my is receiving bailouts and protection from Holder. 
Everyone else has to be accountable.
At least my GMs are pre Obama motors.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> Someone has a friend in a high place. Just as easy could have been Ford. Or Chrysler.


The someone is Nobama the friend in a high place is Eric Witholder.. Now the Never Tell a Lie Nobama claim's GM paid back ALL the Money they Were given / plus interest :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Another success story from the white house whom bought you the Great withdrawal from Iraq closing of Gitmo the defeat of ISIS and to many other love stories to list


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Sure am glad we can all agree on something! That something is yet to be determined.

I am glad GM was bailed out of bankruptcy. That way the Ford Exploder (remember the Firestone tire ordeal?) has a little more competition....


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I forgot about the hand grenade tires..Evidently OJ must of had after market tires on his getaway Exploder.. TOO BAD..


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Obviously this is a Ford vs Gmc issue to you.


Far from it.....it is simply that I am tired of hearing your self-righteous proclamations for how wonderful Ford is and Ford is NO different than any other carmaker....only in your eyes.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Vol said:


> Far from it.....it is simply that I am tired of hearing your self-righteous proclamations for how wonderful Ford is and Ford is NO different than any other carmaker....only in your eyes.
> 
> Regards, Mike


You mean because Ford took no bailout money? 
That's not a self righteous proclamation, thats a FACT.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Vol said:


> Far from it.....it is simply that I am tired of hearing your self-righteous proclamations for how wonderful Ford is and Ford is NO different than any other carmaker....only in your eyes.
> 
> Regards, Mike


WOW Mike.. OUCH .. ..


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Facts are Facts Mike.....taking the money is not what pissed me off.....ok it did a little bit, but when a few months go by and they have signs at the local dealership (on the Ford side of the lot I might add) proclaiming how they paid their money back (with a new even larger loan) with interest. And then hired back the CEO to the tune of $20k an hour (something really ridiculous) to run things behind the scenes....that's what pissed me off about GM and that's why I will not buy another after having never had a problem with GM. Like JD, I've never had a unbroken bond with any of the big three, owned em all, but I have no use for liars and the only way I can affect anything at all is thru my pocketbook......that's what I choose to do. 
But hey, it's fairly obvious your a GM fan, good for you, so is my mother, I don't hold any animosity toward her or you or anyone else that drives one, they make fine vehicles. They also have sorry ass leadership at the top and can't keep their fiscal house in order and expect John Q Public to bail em out and then try (and succeed obviously) to pull the wool over the eyes of John Q Public. No sir, I'll drive a Ford Thank You.....btw you can google all the info you want about Ford, they didn't have their hand out whining about the economy during the "worse recession since the Great Depression" debacle (when it was a free for all) and they didn't fabricate a lie based on the twisting of truths. 
Do I think JD went too far with the assumption that GM is getting away with murder, possibly, but there may be something to it, we are talking about WithHolder here.......
And for the record, if JD was to do the same.....that would be the last JD I bought
Again it's the lies, not the money, doesn't take a lot of courage to tell the truth.....I hate liars


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

somedevildawg.. I see your point about lairs.. I have no use for them... but GM is now the pupit on the end of the string that the us government is controlling.. and those people will throw cover for the stupid decisions the Nobama makes they should of let GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy But that stupid Nobama want the UAW's vote and support.. That is BS to me .. But I have owned some of the big 3 products... I'am more loyal to myself and the grief that the ford products have cause me .. I would ratter protect myself from bankruptcy and lower my standards ... Might be wrong But I would rather be Morally bankrupt than financially bankrupt at this point in my life...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

snowball said:


> somedevildawg.. I see your point about lairs.. I have now use for them... but GM is now the pupit on the end of the string that the us government is controlling.. and those people will throw cover for the stupid decisions the Nobama makes they should of let GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy But that stupid Nobama want the UAW's vote and support.. That is BS to me .. But I have owned some of the big 3 products... I'am more loyal to myself and the grief that the ford products have cause me .. I would ratter protect myself from bankruptcy and lower my standards ... Might be wrong But I would rather be Morally bankrupt than financially bankrupt at this point in my life...


True, but what about people like myself who have owned a dozen or so Ford trucks and never really has any significant problems? I mean GM don't build anything bigger than a 1 ton pickup now anyway. They're out of the medium/heavy work truck market. 
I bet 50% + of the problems you read on the Internet about Ford diesels are from idiots who put a 300HP tuner on a bone stock truck, then whine like babies cause they lifted a head and dealer won't cover it, THEN cry on the Internet that "ford sucks". Diesel hot rodding is a HUGE business. The other 50% are having legit problems.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, snowball. I'm just saying the Internet is full of crybabies like that.

As far as the GM bailout, it is what it is. 
GM took a sh*tload of taxpayer money to fix a completely dysfunctional company that built a lot of crappy cars for decades. 
My beef has nothing to do with brand warfare-again, I own 2 GM trucks and 1 Ford. My beef is they took the bailout money, screwed over the non Union employees & subcontractors (Delphi), pumped money into unions (and thereby the democrat party). Now they've built a couple million life threatening cars and the government is [once again], bailing them out by using the justice system to cover for them.
Just scrap the whole frickin company except Corvette and sell the rest to FIAT. Lol
That's what Chrysler did and they're a better company now!! 
I'm liking those 4500/5500 Rams!!


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I've owned ever brand but a Chrysler product, not saying there's anything wrong with them they just never appealed to me. I've owned a bunch CM and Ford products. I used to get a big discount with the Big Three called a suppliers discount because of the Corp. I worked for. Still have a '91 Ford Explorer with 235,000 miles on it but it hasn't been driven in a year. Yes it had the Firestone ATX's on it that were recalled but I had already replaced them because they were crap tires that wouldn't balance. We also have an '02 Chevy Tahoe Z71, everyone calls it the Behemoth, it's got 91,000 on it and one sweet ride. I've had good and bad luck with both brands.

My beef with Chevy is that every single 1/2 ton pickup we looked at recently was assembled in Mexico, so we bail them out and they move all 1/2 ton assembly to Mexico, to me that sucks, I'm not paying over $50K for a truck made with $2-4/hour labor. My brothers 3/4 Chevy diesel is built here in the US but I think their diesel is an Isuzu but might be wrong on that.

Nevermind on that last comment I looked it up:

"The *Duramax* is a General Motors *diesel* engine family for light-and medium duty trucks, designed by GM and Isuzu. The 6.6-liter *Duramax *is produced by DMAX, a joint venture between GM and Isuzu in Moraine, Ohio."


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It happened back in '80? With Chrysler. Had to bail em out, no lies this time, just hired a hit man to shake up the company, Lee Iacocca. He scrapped everything they were doing, because it didn't make economic sense, and started the company with a new outlook.....and more importantly, different upper management, a complete transformation from the top down.....no need to hire back a guy that ran it in the ground. He turned the company around and they truly paid back their loan with interest in a timely fashion (ahead of time iirc).

You're right JD, diesel hotrodding is a popular business and I'm quite sure that all of the Big 3 have horror stories of transmission/engine/suspension components failing prematurely.

People losing their lives in vehicles that are defective is a problem no matter the manufacture. If it's a documented problem the families deserve compensation (whatever that is) for their loss. Here's hoping they get it.......

Would love to have one of the new corvettes parked in the carriage house......just a weekend, good weather, driver......what a car it is. While I'm wishin, a new 6140r would be nice too.......


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> True, but what about people like myself who have owned a dozen or so Ford trucks and never really has any significant problems? I mean GM don't build anything bigger than a 1 ton pickup now anyway. They're out of the medium/heavy work truck market.
> I bet 50% + of the problems you read on the Internet about Ford diesels are from idiots who put a 300HP tuner on a bone stock truck, then whine like babies cause they lifted a head and dealer won't cover it, THEN cry on the Internet that "ford sucks". Diesel hot rodding is a HUGE business. The other 50% are having legit problems.
> 
> I'm not saying that's what you're doing, snowball. I'm just saying the Internet is full of crybabies like that.
> ...


JD I know every one has their issues or preferences when it comes to cars and trucks none of us are any better at juding than the next and yes I cry alot about the ford.. I should come clean and tell everyone that it has 125000 miles on it just went though it's 1st set of brakes and 2nd set of tires all are hi way mileshasn't been tuned and is all stock.. it has pulled a trailer 91256 mile of it's life .. big trailers too 32' goose neck flat bed and a 36' triple axle stock tr that weights 7000 lbs empty it's been every where between Ohio and Denver and down to Houston but it gets serviced like it should and held up except for the 6.4 and it just really started throwing fits @100000 miles just when the major components warranty happen to expire I'am pretty sure a chevy wouldn't of held up as well.. I'am just mad because the extra money I spent for the diesel should not have started crapping out this soon for the way this truck has been taken care of.. and ya I like to bitch about it I just don't want to be like the others on the "MY TRUCK IS BEST " forums i have heard stories about the Chevy's costing 6k for the fuel injectors when they crap out and they do.. the electrical in the dodges well let's just say sparky..and the drive lines and front ends can't hold up the the Cummings motors that my story so when you hear me cry about the ford it's just my Irish blood boiling All in All the big 3 make pretty good truck just need to find the one that matches your needs the best.. but for GM to get witholder's wing of protection is just not right for the lose of livesI think your thread got turned into a battle field on the very old "WHO"S BETTER" argument. .


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

As a guy who likes driving Suzuki Samurai's, you have to take some of these recall things with a grain of salt. Very specific things like Ford cruise control brake switch burning cars and trucks - straightforward. Vague acceleration problem across anything Toyota makes with mechanical and drive by wire accelerator for 15 years, not likely, find the actual models involved and separate the chaff.

Related to the toyota, a bunch of the complaints are related to the cruise control "taking off" when trying to slow down. If you own a toyota you know the down click is coast / set. Its not a decel. You have to hold it and let the car coast to the speed you want. If you just click down it momentarily coasts then "Sets" the speed then gives a bit of throttle to get to that speed.

If you are on a hill, the cruise will hammer down a bit to a bit over the set speed.

If you click down while climbing a slight hill, the net effect is the cruise setting keeps getting higher and higher so the computer floors it. Process is this:

Set at 60

Get to hill slow to 58 so car steps on it

Car gets to about 62 about the time drivers feels like they are going too fast

Click down which is set. New speed set to 62, dropped to 61 while coasting/setting.

Car floors it and overshoots 62 to about 64, driver repeats, and it goes faster again.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Buddy of mine owns a Toyota that was part of the government forced toyota lawsuit.
He pulled into his garage one day to park it and the thing drove straight thru the back wall and ended up in the family room.
He got out and his wife was standing there watering plants and he says, "hi honey, I'm home".
He told me there was nothing wrong with the car. He just accidentally stepped on gas pedal instead of brakes. Said pedals are too close together, but it was his fault.

This was not intended to be brand warfare thread snowball-I'm serious. 
It WASintended to be a "government should stop throwing money into losers like GM, Solyndra, etc" thread.

Like I said, I own 2 pre Obama motors GM trucks. Even as an owner, I wish they would have let them go bankrupt. It would have finally ended unions in this country. Finally the host would have died from the parasite. GMAIL gets bailout, unions get special gifts and they keep their greedy Union jobs. All non Union workers and subs get a shit sandwich. 
Should have let them go bankrupt and be divested into new, small, non Union companies.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Several folks down here, I'll let your mind run rampant as to what type individuals, were arrested for failure to maintain after trying to simulate the Toyota "unintended accel" debacle......wanted to jump on the gravy train. Thnk floor mats were part of the problem?


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I guess the most publicized case with runaway Toyota products was the family in CA. The driver was an off-duty California Highway Patrolman in which 4 were killed. For the life of me I can't figure out why a CHiP would not know what to do in a situation like this, like throw it into neutral, hit the brakes and let the engine rev limiters kick in or let it blow.

I had a '66 Beetle once that got stuck wide open and I just popped into neutral and shut it off and pulled over, I was like 17 at the time and I knew what to do. The throttle lever at the carb got hung on a spark plug wire that was routed wrong.

Maybe you can't do that with new cars not sure but even with a push button start it looks like you could shift to neutral and hit the brakes as hard as possible.

Toyota Settles Runaway Lexus Crash for $10M - Newser

http://www.newser.com/story/108237/toyota-settles-runaway-lexus-crash-for-10m.html

How To Deal With Unintended Acceleration - Car and Driver

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-deal-with-unintended-acceleration


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

The stupidity and outright ignorance of these people never ceases to amaze me. Anyone who had an issue with the toyota who didn't at least kill it and put it in neutral shouldn't be allowed to drive.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

snowball said:


> somedevildawg.. your break'n my heart..he was with The blue Collar Comedy Tour , Larry the Cable Guy and Bill Engval the other one from your St that does "you might be a red neck "jokes.. Do I need to come down there and pick you up in the new Chevy pick'em up truck and take ya on a cross country tour.. maybe end up in Az. and see if we can get on a Police dept. good cop bad cop team ?


 If she's a crew cab pick me up on your way neighbor lol


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