# How many of you have "back up" equipment?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You know what I mean. Do you have a primary baler and a back up baler, primary discbine and maybe a old haybine to back it up? 
I'm starting to burn up CL and other local dealers to start looking into backup equipment in case the good stuff takes a dump.
Do you do the same thing?
Found a HELL of a deal on a CaseIH round baler. Looks great $4,500.
Got me to thinking if you also did this.


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## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

I still don't have all the "Primary" equipment so thats a no for me. LOL I would love to have back up though if the trade in value wasn't worth much I would keep it. Storage becomes another issue at least for me. I don't like to many things sitting out in the weather.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I have 10 backup round balers, two backup small squares, rakes, tedders, tractors too numerous to count ... They all belong to custom operators


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## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> I have 10 backup round balers, two backup small squares, rakes, tedders, tractors too numerous to count ... They all belong to custom operators


LOL I wish, around here I seem to be THE custom operator and I just got going.....just a sucker for trying to help out I guess.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I have back up tractors and loaders but keep all the main equipment well maintained. Storage issues are part of it, a good maintenance program is another in not needing back up equipment.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

I am like mlappin, I have several back up tractors. I don't have "back ups" for equipment but do have more than one of each piece of hay equipment that during busy times we plan on using. What I try to have is SPARE PARTS, when we brake down usually on a holiday weekend. I also have after hours numbers to call for several dealers . I agree with Nathan I am never to proud to call in a custom guy ( usually a nieghbor) to help out. I have enough money invested in the equipment I use.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's a really good point about the neighbor. I have a friend down the road who I have gotten to know that also bales hay, cuts fields. We are probably 2 or 3 of the only in the immediate area doing it. I think I've gotten to the point where he would small square bale for me should my round baler go down.

I was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a older RB and put the controls in my other tractor.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Long as you have room to store it, a spare machine left outside will soon become a junk machine. Storage is at a premium at home with no room for a spare baler or rake that may not get used at all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have room for another round baler. Found a super nice Case IH. Net wrap, great paint for $4,500. I don't really need it and it will sit for about 5 months before I might need it. 
I remember when my NEW baler lost a chain, I was in a panic. Only 2 other hay farmers I know in the area are part timers and I don't know if I'd be lucky enough to get their help. One only does small squares, other is twine tie 4x4's. I can borrow a rake or Tedder, but not a baler.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Im with most others. I keep parts around and the dealer on speed dial. It might be a good idea though if you have a lad thats capable of running it then you can have 2 machines going at once.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

No backup machinery here. Can't justify the extra overhead. If I had more equipment, I would want it in the field working. When I bought a tractor just to run my TMR mixer I made sure to buy one old and ratty enough to guarantee that I would never have the urge to put a baler behind it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

My type of hay equipment is too expensive to have spares. I guess you could say our small square baler is a backup to the large square. Until we sell it. The dealers are pretty good here though. Although very expensive for anything.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

I have a good friend down the road,we help each other alot


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Yes my father and I have backups, usually just swapping our "first line" stuff between us when something breaks. But he's got an old haybine and his old Deere baler stashed in a barn down the street just in case. Basically we couldn't get much selling them storage is pretty much free and its really handy to have it just in case. More so with the baler, my thrower messed up last year. It was just a matter of parking mine, hauling up the backup and I'm up and running again. Really there are no dealers within a 4 hr radius of us that stock parts, and since we are usually baling on weekends/holidays dealers are even less of an option.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

Spare parts galore. We kept spares of everything, particularly our forage harvester. Except for engine/tranny issues, there wasn't much we couldn't fix. Even had spare parts to rebuild the planetary drive on our sp windrower when we had it. came in handy when my aunt took it thru a rain wash way too fast. Broke all the lug bolts and damaged the planetary. We had it up and running in 5 hours.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> My type of hay equipment is too expensive to have spares. I guess you could say our small square baler is a backup to the large square. Until we sell it. The dealers are pretty good here though. Although very expensive for anything.


Same situation here but with more row crop machinery than hay. Have a 16 row for planting corn and a thirty foot air seeder for beans. Long as one of those is running you're getting something done regardless of a breakdown, when both are running at the same time like normal you're really getting something done. Do have two combines though, one for beans and one for corn. On the rare occasion everything is going right will have both of those running the same time. Also nice to be able to pick corn in the am while waiting for the beans to get fit and not have the hassle of changing heads and settings when the beans get fit to cut.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

We have a sp forage harvester and bagger, square baler, round baler, and combine. We are versatile to most any situation but a lot of equipment to keep up. Mel


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I am like Marty and Bob. With my maintenance program, I don't need backup equipment. I have plenty of tractors but some are too big to put on a round baler. To stay in this business or farming in general, you have be efficient and take care of your equipment just like you would your girlfriend or wife.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Have a friend around the corner, we help each other out when a piece of equipment goes south. The same friend and I try to get our large squares done together when the farm with the large baler is in the area. The farmer with the large baler doesn't really do custom work so its a challenge. There aren't really custom hay makers in this neck of the woods. I try to do as much maintenance on my gear as possible. Besides I'm now looking for a round baler and still dreading my haybine, that would be traded in before getting spares.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

We keep our old NH273 square baler as the backup to the newer JD baler. Its always been well maintained and I doubt that I could find another machine half as good for what I could sell it for. However, its around 40 years old and I don't want to try and put another 4,000-5,000 bales per year through it. So I consider it semi retired and just roll it out for a few hundred 2nd or 3rd cut bales every year to keep it ready. Its cheap insurance and I have a soft spot for old machines that I've rescued and repaired over the years. Got a couple old tedders and a mower with the same pedigree not to mention a barn full of old motorcycles.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

Waterway64 said:


> We have a sp forage harvester and bagger, square baler, round baler, and combine. We are versatile to most any situation but a lot of equipment to keep up. Mel


Sounds about like us.

We have a big square baler, a big round baler, and a small square baler.

We have a SP discbine and a PT discbine

4 tractors with loaders

2 semi trucks + 1 gooseneck

1 rake

Have a silage bagger for rounds, and one for squares.

I don't care how well you maintain your equipment, our best stuff lets us down sometimes too, and without a back up machine it usually costs more than just the parts itself.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

with our tight windows everybody is using their machines at the same time. Were it not for having a second baler, usually running with thw first one if a competent operator is available. Plus can pick up a little custom work from those who break down and don't have a spare. For whatever reason dealers don't keep a very good stock of parts around here anymore. I agree a hedgerow is not adequate storage space.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Have a hard time upgrading equipment as it is. Would be nice to have back up but would just be sitting most of the time. Maintenance and operator goes along way also preventive maintenance. Would like to add another rake and run two

6 tractors any more than that and that's too many sitting not making money. No point having stuff just sitting not being used and generating income. Unless your rich and can spend money.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I can't afford my primary stuff.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> I can't afford my primary stuff.....


Who dat!


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> No backup machinery here. Can't justify the extra overhead. If I had more equipment, I would want it in the field working. When I bought a tractor just to run my TMR mixer I made sure to buy one old and ratty enough to guarantee that I would never have the urge to put a baler behind it.


Never know you might need too use it for fieldwork. That would be my luck. End up using that old ugly ratty one more than the other ones lol


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JoshA said:


> Sounds about like us.
> 
> We have a big square baler, a big round baler, and a small square baler.
> We have a SP discbine and a PT discbine
> ...


I was thinking that, too. I had one repair bill that could have paid half the price of a good used piece. 
Backups just help you get through the day or the amount of time you need to get primary piece up and fixed, but if rain's coming, that could mean a lot.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I was thinking that, too. I had one repair bill that could have paid half the price of a good used piece.
> Backups just help you get through the day or the amount of time you need to get primary piece up and fixed, but if rain's coming, that could mean a lot.


But you still have to pay the repair bill.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> But you still have to pay the repair bill.


Atleast your still rolling. Better then sitting around with your thumb up your ass waiting.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

ontario hay man said:


> Atleast your still rolling. Better then sitting around with your thumb up your ass waiting.


Sometimes you'll make more money with your thumb buried than throwing money at equipment you don't need.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I try to purchase the same tractors and balers. That way the parts are interchangeable, and and operators can jump from one to another. I also scrounged a lightly burnt baler that i just use for emergency parts that i don't stock, like rollers. I figure it paid for itself in the 1st season i had it.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

1st rule of farming. Equipment usually breaks down when rain is coming lol. I dont make squat with rained on hay.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

carcajou said:


> I try to purchase the same tractors and balers. That way the parts are interchangeable, and and operators can jump from one to another. I also scrounged a lightly burnt baler that i just use for emergency parts that i don't stock, like rollers. I figure it paid for itself in the 1st season i had it.


Parts machines are certainly a good idea if bought right.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Parts machines are certainly a good idea if bought right.


I think i paid too much, it cost me a two four of beer for mine.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I guess maybe the best backup tool to have IS a friend or neighbor in the business.
In my case, there's me and one guy who does small squares and one guy who does string tied 4x4's within 10 miles of me. Then theres on HUGE baler with all the fancy, new green painted equipment who'd probably rather see me broke down. So I'm not as lucky as most guys here who live in an area where most neighbors farm, too and have lots of equipment to share. 
I may be one of the few here who a second, used round baler may not be a bad idea. I'also sort of dislike the idea of trying to sell twine tie 4x4's when customers are used to net wrap 4x5's.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Well JD, someday soon you might be a mentor to someone....remember where you came from. 

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I guess maybe the best backup tool to have IS a friend or neighbor in the business.
> In my case, there's me and one guy who does small squares and one guy who does string tied 4x4's within 10 miles of me. Then theres on HUGE baler with all the fancy, new green painted equipment who'd probably rather see me broke down. So I'm not as lucky as most guys here who live in an area where most neighbors farm, too and have lots of equipment to share.
> I may be one of the few here who a second, used round baler may not be a bad idea. I'also sort of dislike the idea of trying to sell twine tie 4x4's when customers are used to net wrap 4x5's.


If you had enough hay on the ground, there's a possibility of someone outside of ten miles being willing to travel. If you didn't have much laying, would the mulch price vs good hay price really make or break you on that small amount? (Or the 4x4 twine price vs 4x5 net) I guess only you could know that for sure, but for someone who also wants a tractor and tedder upgrade (and well repair), backup baler would presumably be at the bottom of that list.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

We used to rely on neighbours for backup but we are about the last farm doing hay around here. The weather windows are only 2-3 days max and maybe a week apart for us so if you don't do it yourself, you will never get it done on time.

Bought a newer JD348 to backup our JD336, have less than 5000$ in the pair.

Kept our old rake when we got the newer one, only have 700$ into the pair.

Kept the old tedder when we got the new but want to get rid of it so I can get another one identical to the good one. There are all 4 basket manual folds that aren't worth much.

Have a backup disc mower too but its never mowed under my ownership, needs a need CV pto shaft that costs more than what I paid for the machine. Have put all the money into the good disc mower keeping it reliable. Intended to open up the bar and change out the grease and look for chipped gears etc this winter but tearing into the front axle of our 100 hp MF instead.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Atleast your still rolling. Better then sitting around with your thumb up your ass waiting.


That's the way I look at it. Hay un baled could not only get rained on, but it gets sun bleached, too while it sits. We get a lot of pop up rain showers here.

I think the answer to this question depends on what you situation with friends to neighbors who farms is.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> If you had enough hay on the ground, there's a possibility of someone outside of ten miles being willing to travel. If you didn't have much laying, would the mulch price vs good hay price really make or break you on that small amount? (Or the 4x4 twine price vs 4x5 net) I guess only you could know that for sure, but for someone who also wants a tractor and tedder upgrade (and well repair), backup baler would presumably be at the bottom of that list.


New in the business usually you upgrade as you get bigger.
Once I'm a experienced sage like you, I'll have my equipment situation settled...... Maybe even a nice Valtra in the barn 

One mulch v. Horse hay: it depends on field size and timing of course, but if I have 125 round bales on the ground at $40 versus 125 at $75, that's $4,375. Just a whisker under the asking price of the CaseIH baler I spoke of. 
So yes, I would think it would make or break me. I haven't even looked at this baler, so I don't know if its worth perusing. Maybe now, but that's why I come here and ask advice. I'm just a "city boy" trying to make it in a farmers world. Lol.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

We have enough tractors that we could swap off if needed. My uncle has a couple older tractors that could be used in a pinch as well. As for hay equipment, we have our old 488 haybine that we didn't trade since the dealer was giving scrap price. We run two side delivery rakes on a tandem rake hitch and have a third rake setting idle, that gives plenty of backup there if needed. I did pick up a 2nd JD 336 baler for parts, but it is in good enough shape that I think I can have it running for less than $1000 (and I only paid $700 for it in the first place). I also just picked up a round baler that we could use just to get hay off the ground if we really needed to.

The only piece of equipment that we don't have a backup for is our NH bale wagon. I do have some work that I need to do on the driveline (new bearings, sprockets, etc.) but it is in pretty good shape, so all I need to do is keep it there. We also have the old hay wagons and a few friends that would help out if we need to grab hay out of the field by hand, but that is a last resort.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> New in the business usually you upgrade as you get bigger.
> Once I'm a experienced sage like you, I'll have my equipment situation settled...... Maybe even a nice Valtra in the barn
> One mulch v. Horse hay: it depends on field size and timing of course, but if I have 125 round bales on the ground at $40 versus 125 at $75, that's $4,375. Just a whisker under the asking price of the CaseIH baler I spoke of.
> So yes, I would think it would make or break me. I haven't even looked at this baler, so I don't know if its worth perusing. Maybe now, but that's why I come here and ask advice. I'm just a "city boy" trying to make it in a farmers world. Lol.


Alot better then being a farmer in a city boys world lol. I would go for it if it looks good.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> I remember when my NEW baler lost a chain, I was in a panic. Only 2 other hay farmers I know in the area are part timers and I don't know if I'd be lucky enough to get their help. One only does small squares, other is twine tie 4x4's. I can borrow a rake or Tedder, but not a baler.


No offense, but if throwing a chain put you in a panic I would invest in common wear parts before more iron. I always keep a box of chain & several repair links for every size chain on hand. If you spent the $4,500 on common parts I think you would be money ahead.

A spare is only useful if it is maintained & used regularly. If it sits all year then gets pulled out and pushed hard because your in a pinch there is a good chance it could go down too.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Jd how far away are you from me? Our home farm is 1.4 miles east of the light at calvert ( insertection of 272 and 273). Not saying I would have time to help you out but it is posssible. Also I know other hay guys that maybe could help in a pinch. Bob


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> New in the business usually you upgrade as you get bigger.
> Once I'm a experienced sage like you, I'll have my equipment situation settled...... Maybe even a nice Valtra in the barn
> 
> One mulch v. Horse hay: it depends on field size and timing of course, but if I have 125 round bales on the ground at $40 versus 125 at $75, that's $4,375. Just a whisker under the asking price of the CaseIH baler I spoke of.
> So yes, I would think it would make or break me. I haven't even looked at this baler, so I don't know if its worth perusing. Maybe now, but that's why I come here and ask advice. I'm just a "city boy" trying to make it in a farmers world. Lol.


Dude, that Valtra is in the barn because you can't turn down a 135 hp mfwd 2002 tractor with all the bells and whistles for 14k 

A 125 bale job would entice me to travel more than 10 miles if I had the time. It's a $1000 job. Bob M is right, surely someone would "help" in this case. You just need to compile a list of people in that case. Or as mentioned you could own a bunch of replacement parts. One belt, one set of slip clutches, common roll bearings. You don't need much for a round baler.

I agree with your math for the most part (surprise!), but do have one minor gripe  You need to prorate that $4300 several years. You're not going to have a yearly colossal breakdown. That other, lonely baler (taking up space) in the shed will be depreciating and sucking money out of you in opportunity cost until that one year that you actually need it. If it is such a spectacular deal (I tried to find it on craigslist to see if it is  ), buy it. And sell it in the spring for $6000. You're $1500 richer and your initial investment is back in the bank instead of depreciating away in an indoor spot that you could be parking something that you actually use.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh I should note we picked up a very clean round baler for 1000$, its only softcore 4x5 roller baler but in a jam it will clean up a field in a hurry. We have about 50 acres of poor quality hay that we currently square bale but will round bale instead.

We will not be buying a backup for it lol. Next equipment purchase will likely be a another very cheap ez-trail style basket. We ran one on the backup baler this summer with both balers in the field and it was very nice for cleaning up.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Who was the retard to sell you a tractor like that so cheap.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

ontario hay man said:


> Who was the retard to sell you a tractor like that so cheap.


A friendly old man whose idiot hired help ran it off the road at 30mph into a stout tree. He got a quote of 25k to repair it at a dealer, scoffed, and put it in the barn wrecked. Four years later, he sold his cows, put his wife in a home, and advertised the Valtra in the fastline (any of you could have had it!) for 10k as is. I gave him 7. The other 7k is parts and labor. I only worked on it two days. The rest is paid labor included in the cost. I'm good at sourcing parts


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Dude, that Valtra is in the barn because you can't turn down a 135 hp mfwd 2002 tractor with all the bells and whistles for 14k
> A 125 bale job would entice me to travel more than 10 miles if I had the time. It's a $1000 job. Bob M is right, surely someone would "help" in this case. You just need to compile a list of people in that case. Or as mentioned you could own a bunch of replacement parts. One belt, one set of slip clutches, common roll bearings. You don't need much for a round baler.
> I agree with your math for the most part (surprise!), but do have one minor gripe  You need to prorate that $4300 several years. You're not going to have a yearly colossal breakdown. That other, lonely baler (taking up space) in the shed will be depreciating and sucking money out of you in opportunity cost until that one year that you actually need it. If it is such a spectacular deal (I tried to find it on craigslist to see if it is  ), buy it. And sell it in the spring for $6000. You're $1500 richer and your initial investment is back in the bank instead of depreciating away in an indoor spot that you could be parking something that you actually use.


I guess you think that the "help" you mention will be free, too huh? 
Somehow I'd doubt anyone's gonna bale up 125 round bales for nothing, especially if they have to drive 10-20 miles. 
My math is actually off a little, it would be a bigger loss than I originally thought. Reason is because the bales I was going to sell for horse hay would have been sprayed for weeds, too. So better throw another $500 more on top my original figure....
This topic has been fun, by my crude statistics, it looks like its split about 50/50 on whether to back up equipment, or rely on neighbors.
I really don't have any neighbors who can help me, so back up tools seem to make more sense than paying someone like 8530 Hi Tech $1,000, but I'll keep it in mind. 
Other thing you have to realize is that most times when you need help baling, the help you call is also too busy baling! In just one good day of sun, hay that's ready to bale starts to turn that sage green to light gray color or it gets rained on.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Dude........I agree with your math for the most part (surprise!), but do have one minor gripe  You need to prorate that $4300 several years. You're not going to have a yearly colossal breakdown.


Oh yeah? 



> That other, lonely baler (taking up space) in the shed will be depreciating and sucking money out of you in opportunity cost until that one year that you actually need it. If it is such a spectacular deal (I tried to find it on craigslist to see if it is  ), buy it. And sell it in the spring for $6000. You're $1500 richer and your initial investment is back in the bank instead of depreciating away in an indoor spot that you could be parking something that you actually use.


That was the other thing that I was thinking. Buy good deals for back ups when you find them, then resell higher (hopefully). You could use profits to buy all those $400 a piece parts....lol


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Jd do you have a kid interested in farming or a neighbor kid? You can have 2 machines baling at once? Roll it up quick.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> A friendly old man whose idiot hired help ran it off the road at 30mph into a stout tree. He got a quote of 25k to repair it at a dealer, scoffed, and put it in the barn wrecked. Four years later, he sold his cows, put his wife in a home, and advertised the Valtra in the fastline (any of you could have had it!) for 10k as is. I gave him 7. The other 7k is parts and labor. I only worked on it two days. The rest is paid labor included in the cost. I'm good at sourcing parts


What tractor did you use before the wrecked Valtra?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Jd do you have a kid interested in farming or a neighbor kid? You can have 2 machines baling at once? Roll it up quick.


Yup, he's also known as my 14 yr old son 
He's already getting started, but I really love him a whole lot and I know it's easy to get injured farming. Got one dead farmer down the street and one farmer who lost a brother in a rolled over tractor a little further down the street. Neither are farming anymore.
The guy who taught me when I was a teenager died 10 yrs ago (RIP Lester-you were a real man and a great farmer).
Anyways, I'm taking it slow with my son. Making sure its as accident proof as possible.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob M said:


> Jd how far away are you from me? Our home farm is 1.4 miles east of the light at calvert ( insertection of 272 and 273). Not saying I would have time to help you out but it is posssible. Also I know other hay guys that maybe could help in a pinch. Bob


Im 20 miles north up Rt 1 from you. I can get to AG Industrial in 30 min, 'specially when I need a baler part  and I have a tailwind pushing me down Rt1 south


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Ya just ease him into it. He can train with you for a few days. I drove grandpas old massey 35 raking when I was 5 but times have changed. If he has common sense he will be alright.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I guess you think that the "help" you mention will be free, too huh?
> Somehow I'd doubt anyone's gonna bale up 125 round bales for nothing, especially if they have to drive 10-20 miles.
> My math is actually off a little, it would be a bigger loss than I originally thought. Reason is because the bales I was going to sell for horse hay would have been sprayed for weeds, too. So better throw another $500 more on top my original figure....
> This topic has been fun, by my crude statistics, it looks like its split about 50/50 on whether to back up equipment, or rely on neighbors.
> ...


I clearly stated you'd have to spend 1000 to have it baled. Nothing in life is free. My point is as much as that one time expense of 1000 burns you up, it's better to have parts on hand for your baler for most situations and risk having to call the custom guy on that one day every ten years where there is a freak breakdown. Most balers are busy on any given hay day, but somewhere, somebody is available with a 40km transmission and a need to make a tractor payment the next month.
Again, owning the backup strictly as a backup is a terrible opportunity cost. Those in "agreement" in favor of having backups are almost all talking about tractors (which they're using some anyway), or junk haybines or such that have pretty much zero value.

As to your math being wrong, no. You were right the first time. You can't add 500 because you're mad your hay got rained on. That money is spent regardless.

Ran a CIH 1896 before the Valtra fell in my lap. It was a good tractor. But I didn't care to keep it as a backup


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I do agree, this is a fun topic


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> But you still have to pay the repair bill.


Maybe....maybe not.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> I clearly stated you'd have to spend 1000 to have it baled. Nothing in life is free. My point is as much as that one time expense of 1000 burns you up, it's better to have parts on hand for your baler for most situations and risk having to call the custom guy on that one day every ten years where there is a freak breakdown. Most balers are busy on any given hay day, but somewhere, somebody is available with a 40km transmission and a need to make a tractor payment the next month.
> Again, owning the backup strictly as a backup is a terrible opportunity cost. Those in "agreement" in favor of having backups are almost all talking about tractors (which they're using some anyway), or junk haybines or such that have pretty much zero value.......


Not really. Im thinking about 4-5 in the thread said they had a back up baler. 
So maybe there's more than you think :0


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

JD Are you around Unionville? And did you bid on the white clay creek ground?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Not really. Im thinking about 4-5 in the thread said they had a back up baler.
> So maybe there's more than you think :0


My phone is too slow today to go back and count. But I'm lumping all of the "we didn't trade granddad's super 66 on the new one so that's our backup" in the "haybines and such of zero value" category. I know there are a few posters who actually mentioned seeking out and buying a backup, but I think they're in areas of the country that they're lucky to see the mailman each day, let alone the possibility of a custom baler. No offense to mailmen


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## foz682 (Jan 10, 2013)

No back-up gear here, but it does seem like we're usually "backup" to every one else...more so for use of our tractors than hay equipment though.

We do have an equipment co-op that has a pretty good selection of gear; round balers, bagger, wrappers manure spreaders, etc. that can come to our rescue if we have a bad break down.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I will add my opinion to this......I am also new to farming having only been doing it for three years. I started out with some real junk equipment that was constantly breaking down, I looked into getting back up equipment but I figured by the time I had two sets of junk equipment that was prone to break down I would be money ahead to buy new or newer hay equipment.

While newer equipment can certainly break down it is much less likely to happen so I could not see the benefit of having extra back up equipment sitting around. I feel that the event of something major breaking that would not be in stock at the parts counter is highly unlikely to happen and I try to keep normal wear parts on hand. Now if I was running older equipment that was prone to taking a dump every now and then I would look into back up equipment. The reason I bought the newer equipment was so I would not have to be so concerned about breaking down. I also have no one around me that would be willing to lend a hand....all the people I know that farm are 40 minutes to an hour away.

On tractors now I can see having a couple extra as you can always use them on their own piece of equipment and you don't have to switch around so much.

I'm just saying at this point I feel that you would be better off putting the money towards another tractor and tedder upgrade that you have been wanting. Those will get regular use and when you get your main set of equipment the way you want it then at that time you could then consider back up equipment if you feel you need it. Now if you feel your current baler is unreliable that may be a different story.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

New equipment doesnt always solve the problem. We bought a new baler this year and it broke with 700 bales on it. Faulty part from the factory but cost us 4 hours and about $7200 in lost hay. Only would happen to us but things like that happen.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

ontario hay man said:


> New equipment doesnt always solve the problem. We bought a new baler this year and it broke with 700 bales on it. Faulty part from the factory but cost us 4 hours and about $7200 in lost hay. Only would happen to us but things like that happen.


Bought a new baler this year as well, took about 700 bales to get the kinks worked out of it, and a few times when it's a good thing we had the big square to come to its rescue.

Our (newer) big square had an electrical issue a couple years ago, and it's a good thing we had a back up baler (round baler) because while the dealer spent a week trying to figure it out, I made the best hay of the entire year with my "back up" we'd bought the previous winter. With a 600 acres laying in the field, it wouldn't have been good to have my only baler gone for a week.

Our (newer) SP discbine had a bearing go relatively prematurely this year with only 3k acres on it, and while they spent a few weeks getting the RIGHT part ordered in, over a couple long weekends and improper parts, I used our PT discbine (the "back up" we bought just a few weeks before this happened). 3 weeks is a long time to be without a mower when you're supposed to be cutting hay.

When your semi blows a tire or shreds a belt while you're trying to get hay or silage in before the storm, you're sure glad you have more than one way to haul bales!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JoshA said:


> Bought a new baler this year as well, took about 700 bales to get the kinks worked out of it, and a few times when it's a good thing we had the big square to come to its rescue.
> 
> Our (newer) big square had an electrical issue a couple years ago, and it's a good thing we had a back up baler (round baler) because while the dealer spent a week trying to figure it out, I made the best hay of the entire year with my "back up" we'd bought the previous winter. With a 600 acres laying in the field, it wouldn't have been good to have my only baler gone for a week.
> 
> ...


Must not be using John Deere........they ain't gonna make me wait that long.....or I'd be buying another color......


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Thats what you think dawg. Wait til they look at you and scratch their head lol.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JoshA said:


> Bought a new baler this year as well, took about 700 bales to get the kinks worked out of it, and a few times when it's a good thing we had the big square to come to its rescue.
> 
> Our (newer) big square had an electrical issue a couple years ago, and it's a good thing we had a back up baler (round baler) because while the dealer spent a week trying to figure it out, I made the best hay of the entire year with my "back up" we'd bought the previous winter. With a 600 acres laying in the field, it wouldn't have been good to have my only baler gone for a week.
> 
> ...


See that's the way I'm looking at it. A older baler that works could save you thousands in lost hay. 
A Tedder or a rake wouldn't be as extreme of a situation since there's always a old rake or Tedder at a nearby dealer for ~$1,000. A baler is a different story, they're a little more scarce and something better off purchased off season when you find an oldie but a goodie.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

ontario hay man said:


> New equipment doesnt always solve the problem. We bought a new baler this year and it broke with 700 bales on it. Faulty part from the factory but cost us 4 hours and about $7200 in lost hay. Only would happen to us but things like that happen.


We'd have the same luck. Just like the horsey neighbor who at the end of the season unhooks it in the field hitches up next season and runs perfect all season . We put our inside and always maintained, one trip around the field and it breaks down....


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Jd can you rent one from a dealer. Thats what I do in a bind.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

If your dealer does that or if someone else doesn't have it using it. Our deere dealer is a pain to rent their ag bagger from. We rented one from another farmer this year


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I guess thays why nh is better.  My dealer rents me anything I ask for really cheap probably because of how much business we do with them.  cant resist getting my jabs in about deere lol.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

ontario hay man said:


> I guess thays why nh is better.  My dealer rents me anything I ask for really cheap probably because of how much business we do with them.  cant resist getting my jabs in about deere lol.


Well this little "Deere" would come in handy down there right now i bet.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Nah we got enough blue here to keep the county open lol.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bgriffin856 said:


> If your dealer does that or if someone else doesn't have it using it. Our deere dealer is a pain to rent their ag bagger from. We rented one from another farmer this year


My dealer will loan me used stuff on the lot, problem is, it's usually already gone to someone who broke down before me!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Dude, that Valtra is in the barn because you can't turn down a 135 hp mfwd 2002 tractor with all the bells and whistles for 14k


Why do you need MFWD? Lol


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

We don't keep spare implements sitting around, mainly because as others have said I look at that as capital that could be better invested elsewhere. Also we try to keep everything in great shape just to cut down on as many surprises as possible. I do like having multiple tractors though that you can switch out in a hurry if you have breakdowns, flat tires, etc. and rain is coming. We also have both a square and round baler so if one breaks down in a pinch can usually at least finish out the field even if it wasn't how you originally planned or the most ideal situation. Also have family members and neighbors close that could be called on in a pinch.

About the only people I know in my area who have backup implements are the people with smaller, very old equipment that just didn't get traded or sold when a new piece was bought (as several have mentioned already) but typically these are very small operations with not a lot of money invested in their entire equipment line. Or, the very big operations or custom operators who will keep two of everything on hand, usually trading the oldest piece on the new but are trading so often even the spare is relatively nice. But majority of days they are running both of everything at the same time. So while they technically have "spares" I would argue it is a little different than what you are asking about - because that backup equipment is still seeing lots of use and not just sitting in the barn waiting for that moment when you breakdown and need in a hurry.

I guess it comes down to what your priorities are and pocketbook allows. Unless you are really big and can justify it, probably wouldn't pencil out on paper (but i'm sure we all have something sitting in the shed that didn't make sense on paper  ), but if it helps you sleep better at night and can swing it then its up to you.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Why do you need MFWD? Lol


Well played, sir 

All except in the one year that I've had it the front axle has been engaged the exact same number of times that I have been. Zero.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

But majority of days they are running both of everything at the same time. So while they technically have "spares" I would argue it is a little different than what you are asking about - because that backup equipment is still seeing lots of use and not just sitting in the barn waiting for that moment when you breakdown and need in a hurry.

I agree with your post, and upon reflection I figure I should point out, seeings how I was pretty well the odd-man-out in this "poll", that you're right in our case as well, they are secondary machines not "back ups",

We run both mowers, balers, trucks, loaders, at the same time, whenever possible. Even when we only have one person hauling, we use up to 4 rigs, saves unloading until they're all safely in the shed for the night!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Well played, sir
> All except in the one year that I've had it the front axle has been engaged the exact same number of times that I have been. Zero.


Really? I use mine enough to justify it. I have two fields connected by a steep trail. I also use it to plow snow. We all use our tractors in different environments and we all have different circumstances and needs for the equipment we buy.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Really? I use mine enough to justify it. I have two fields connected by a steep trail. I also use it to plow snow. We all use our tractors in different environments and we all have different circumstances and needs for the equipment we buy.


Mine is truly a mowing and baling tractor. Just don't need it for that. It looks pretty and goes over groundhog holes nicely, though 
The mechanic that did my front axle asked me one day how it worked. Told him I didn't know. He thought I meant it didn't work. Had to explain to him that even though I just dropped $7000 into the front end I hadn't even found an excuse to play with it. 
Moved a junk 14x70 mobile home for my uncle the other day. Still didn't need it.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Nathen, you might have needed the MFWD more than you think, the extra weight of the front end.  I have moved house trailers before and they can be heavy. Having said this , I moved with a 2 wheel drive tractor.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I certainly had more front end weight than the tricycle 4030 he thought he was going to move it with


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

All this talk of having backup/secondary equipment and all what happens when your main equipment breaks down then your backup/secondary equipment breaks down also? Then you have two broke down machines so you would be not farther ahead. That would be my luck.....


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I lost 4wd in my MF last fall and did a hay season without it. Never again. What a pain. Good reminder of the days of 2wd. Tried to do some field work this fall but just constantly spinning out or getting stuck.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

I prefer a two wheel drive. Alot less to wear out and maintain especially wearing out expensive tires. The 574 in my avi and our JD7405 are mfwd. that's all we need. Good thing the 574 has that front axle or we woulda been stuck square baling this year.... plus it's nice when your pulling hills with a big load


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bgriffin856 said:


> All this talk of having backup/secondary equipment and all what happens when your main equipment breaks down then your backup/secondary equipment breaks down also? Then you have two broke down machines so you would be not farther ahead. That would be my luck.....


Dang dude, try to be more optimistic. Farming a tough enough! 
You know, if theres one thing I have learned by these forums it's that everyone has a different situation, different weather, terrain, topography, crop, storage, business model, etc.
You see one guy think another guy is crazy for buying MFWD tractor and then find out he really does need it, even though the other guy doesn't. One wants out of making round bales, the other can't make enough of them. One guy likes to use labor to put up bales, the other thinks a stack wagon makes more sense. 
Farming is so unique to everyone's situation!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Dang dude, try to be more optimistic. Farming a tough enough!
> You know, if theres one thing I have learned by these forums it's that everyone has a different situation, different weather, terrain, topography, crop, storage, business model, etc.
> You see one guy think another guy is crazy for buying MFWD tractor and then find out he really does need it, even though the other guy doesn't. One wants out of making round bales, the other can't make enough of them. One guy likes to use labor to put up bales, the other thinks a stack wagon makes more sense.
> Farming is so unique to everyone's situation!


That's because some of those people are wrong! LOL


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

You murricans would be a sorry bunch up here with 2wd tractors lol. We learn how to get things unstuck on some land here before we learn how to walk lol.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Do not have backups for anything. Invest the money in your first line, stay on top of maintenance, and work with a dealer that has parts inventory, service, and rental machines if needed. I have about a quarter mil invested in my hay line up, and that makes my dealer easy to work with. Can't even back up baler tractors because it takes too long to switch out monitors and controllers.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Dang dude, try to be more optimistic. Farming a tough enough!
> You know, if theres one thing I have learned by these forums it's that everyone has a different situation, different weather, terrain, topography, crop, storage, business model, etc.
> You see one guy think another guy is crazy for buying MFWD tractor and then find out he really does need it, even though the other guy doesn't. One wants out of making round bales, the other can't make enough of them. One guy likes to use labor to put up bales, the other thinks a stack wagon makes more sense.
> Farming is so unique to everyone's situation!


That's why i like this site. Learn about how people farm and adapt to their situation and how they make it work


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

ontario hay man said:


> You murricans would be a sorry bunch up here with 2wd tractors lol. We learn how to get things unstuck on some land here before we learn how to walk lol.


Sounds like us between mud and/or snow we have had two tractors hooked together to chop corn and spread manure more than once....sometimes we still get stuck then have two stuck tractors lol. Most of the time its a two wheel drive in front of a four wheel drive also.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> Do not have backups for anything. Invest the money in your first line, stay on top of maintenance, and work with a dealer that has parts inventory, service, and rental machines if needed. I have about a quarter mil invested in my hay line up, and that makes my dealer easy to work with. Can't even back up baler tractors because it takes too long to switch out monitors and controllers.


 That's really true with big balers. If I had to switch tractors that run the big square it would be a major pain to adjust tongue of the baler to get the pto universal angles just right. Nevermind switch the monitors and connections. And what if the failing tractor couldn't move on it's own power? It would have to be towed away from the baler. I guess I would do it though if I had to... Even though the other tractor is not an ideal big square baler tractor.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

ontario hay man said:


> You murricans would be a sorry bunch up here with 2wd tractors lol. We learn how to get things unstuck on some land here before we learn how to walk lo


Most of our tractors are large 4x4 units , a couple of large mfwd's , we do have a 4440 jd and a 5488 ih 2 wd but they just pull rakes. I Like to run 4x4 articulated on my big square balers though lots of power and handle the heavy loads better.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Wonder what them Canucks did before THEY had 4 wd ?


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> Wonder what them Canucks did before THEY had 4 wd ?


Horses in the summer, dogs in the winter.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan said:


> That's really true with big balers. If I had to switch tractors that run the big square it would be a major pain to adjust tongue of the baler to get the pto universal angles just right. Nevermind switch the monitors and connections. And what if the failing tractor couldn't move on it's own power? It would have to be towed away from the baler. I guess I would do it though if I had to... Even though the other tractor is not an ideal big square baler tractor.


I think if you wanted to run a back up baler, the ideal one would be an older higher bale count version of your primary baler. One that uses same monitor, or put the spare monitor in the other tractor. That's what I would do. That way one could keep # of bales exact on each baler.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> That's because some of those people are wrong! LOL


Nathan, I learned a long time ago, that most everything I do is wrong. Just ask my neighbors.We bale small bales and milk cows .


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob, how far are you from Camp Horseshoe/Jubilee?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I think if you wanted to run a back up baler, the ideal one would be an older higher bale count version of your primary baler. One that uses same monitor, or put the spare monitor in the other tractor. That's what I would do. That way one could keep # of bales exact on each baler.


Bale count stays with baler regardless of monitor.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I think if you wanted to run a back up baler, the ideal one would be an older higher bale count version of your primary baler. One that uses same monitor, or put the spare monitor in the other tractor. That's what I would do. That way one could keep # of bales exact on each baler.


Of the large square balers that wouldn't need lots of work for a spare 3x3 would still be around $30k at the least sitting there. The real old ones I don't think use the same monitors and those are the ones that are at the $30k price range. I think generally if you have 2 large squares you better be using both and have enough ground that you need two.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

My motto has always been "If you're gonna run junk then you better have lots of it!"

Joking aside, the new stuff breaks down too. No time for down time so you do what you gotta do. Our neighborhood is really tight knit and everyone is pretty good about lending equipment or operators or both to get the job done. Everyone has multiple units and tries to keep them all running at once. Backup operators are the best ace in the hole!

Around here it's almost like asking for more work if you're the first one done!


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