# Foxtail in hay



## bhamrick (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok Fellas, educate me on foxtail in hay. Due to a poor second cutting we had to buy some large squares to make sure we had enough to get through winter. After cutting a bale open I find what looks like foxtail throughout the hay. I am not familiar with foxtail as its either not in our fields thankfully or just not an issue in our area. For your horse customers how big of a deal is this stuff. We have 5 horses and I definitely don't need to be vetting 5 horses due to mouth ulcers from hay.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

bhamrick said:


> Ok Fellas, educate me on foxtail in hay. Due to a poor second cutting we had to buy some large squares to make sure we had enough to get through winter. After cutting a bale open I find what looks like foxtail throughout the hay. I am not familiar with foxtail as its either not in our fields thankfully or just not an issue in our area. For your horse customers how big of a deal is this stuff. We have 5 horses and I definitely don't need to be vetting 5 horses due to mouth ulcers from hay.


Are there very small BB like seeds in those seed heads?.....those BB seeds are what causes the problems in foxtail....not the grass itself. The seeds are about the size of ratshot in .22 caliber rat cartridges.

Regards, Mike


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## bhamrick (Jan 4, 2013)

While not very clear here is a pic of it in the hay. And yes it does have the seeds that look like bb's.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yep that's foxtail.....but are the seeds hard and round....if the hay was cut before full maturity the seed "Hulls" will be there but they will be empty and NOT hard and round.....kinda flat from the hay compressing when baled....if they are not hard and round you should be good....no problem as folks like to say.

Regards, Mike


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## bhamrick (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks Mike, from what you're describing I think I may be ok. The hulls did not seem to be hard but I will double check tomorrow to make sure. I do remember seeing some that looked flat like you are describing from the bale being compressed.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You got me thinking you might not have foxtail NOW, but you may be getting it soon: I wonder if after consumed and digested, they can grow when the horses pass it onto the ground?
Foxtail is one big PITA in my area. Makes you have to get 2nd cut down in a hurry. I have to get my fields cut before it heads out in August.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've control the foxtail in my OG fields by mowing and baling it just as the seeds are going to milk stage. It makes reasonable feed. And by cutting it at this stage, it gets it off the field before the seeds drop.

If, for some reason, I can't cut the OG for hay (too short, weather, no regrowth this year, etc.), I'll run the shredder over it with it set just high enough to top the foxtail.

The end result is that over the years, I have very little foxtail show up in my fields anymore.

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Best way I have found to control foxtail is by planting my Orchard grass at 20 pounds to the acre.....shade it out with the newer varieties that do not clump over time.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mike- interesting. i use 25# og but still get ft-the worst is in timothy though. cut it just going into head and seeds are no problem but the horses eat it right up. had to cut it twice this year in the timothy field but did not get a late og cutting. all the growth came at the end of Oct and into Nov.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I agree about the timothy being the worst for foxtail rick.....

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> I agree about the timothy being the worst for foxtail rick.....
> 
> Regards, Mike


Makes sense--Timothy matures 15-30 days later than OG and usually only gets 1-2 cuttings per year. The time of the first cutting would be just about when foxtail is starting to grow. So it has wedged iself into timothy growth cycle perfectly.

Just guessing.

Ralph


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## haygrl59 (May 19, 2014)

Some of our alfalfa has a bit of foxtail in it. The horsey people won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Fortunately, our alfalfa-grass mix is mostly foxtail-free and the horsey people seem to like it better. The rainy weather this year didn't allow us to get the alfalfa cut when we would have liked to. Some of my customers were telling me that their local hay producers were trying to pass off hay that was totally infested with foxtail as horse hay. I try to be as upfront as I can with folks but I can't see what's inside every single bale. I hear that foxtail is a big pain to get out of the field unless its cut regularly or crowded out. Can't totally blame the horsey people. Its no fun dealing with horses with cut mouths. We're hoping that Mother Nature will be more kind to us next year.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Horses graze foxtail here but it seems to mature very late, seeds are developed about 3rd week of August or so?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

haygrl59 said:


> Some of our alfalfa has a bit of foxtail in it. The horsey people won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Fortunately, our alfalfa-grass mix is mostly foxtail-free and the horsey people seem to like it better. The rainy weather this year didn't allow us to get the alfalfa cut when we would have liked to. Some of my customers were telling me that their local hay producers were trying to pass off hay that was totally infested with foxtail as horse hay. I try to be as upfront as I can with folks but I can't see what's inside every single bale. I hear that foxtail is a big pain to get out of the field unless its cut regularly or crowded out. Can't totally blame the horsey people. Its no fun dealing with horses with cut mouths. We're hoping that Mother Nature will be more kind to us next year.


pretty easy to take care of foxtail in straight alfalfa.Poast Plus or Fusilade will take care of it.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

horses eat lots of foxtail in VA every august. It is just not at head or caney. just like the horse people that won't touch fescue. Their horses do in virtually every paddock in VA. just a management issue.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm thinking about either using a weed wicker to deal with foxtail or using my sickle mower - just above the timothy to cut the heads before they go to seed.

Bill


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

How about COWS and foxtail? Is it the same problem with mouth injuries?
Not cows that are milked, but what I [mistakenly] call "beef cattle". We take them to market after 20-24 months and have them butchered. We don't milk them, breed them or keep them long term.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

leeave96 said:


> I'm thinking about either using a weed wicker to deal with foxtail or using my sickle mower - just above the timothy to cut the heads before they go to seed.
> 
> Bill


that won't work Bill, that dang stuff is so determined to head out and procreate that it just keeps heading. I bush hogged my timothy field late Sept that had little foxtail in it. Not enough to cut and bale. One week later, seed heads again, a lot of them. finally gave up. Your strategy works better with giant foxtail but is not fool proof.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

If you look at the seeds under a microscope (I forget at what power), the seeds have barbs on them. That's what causes sores in mouths when they get stuck in there.

As far as cattle, I've never seen cattle go after foxtail. I've only seen them pick through to get the 2nd/3rd cut Timothy or OG leaves out, and leave a pile of foxtail in the feeder.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> How about COWS and foxtail? Is it the same problem with mouth injuries?
> Not cows that are milked, but what I [mistakenly] call "beef cattle". We take them to market after 20-24 months and have them butchered. We don't milk them, breed them or keep them long term.


Mine seem to eat foxtail fine. In pasture they don't eat milkweed. I am pretty sure at least one cow has taken up eating thistle.

Iam guessing the ones you butcherare all steers?

A cow is a female who has had at least one calf.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> I am pretty sure at least one cow has taken up eating thistle.
> 
> A cow is a female who has had at least one calf.


Moose, send that one this way. I can fatten her up ifn she likes thistle. I've been fighting that and bull nettle since I bought this place.

I thought that a COW had to have calved TWICE? If only once, I think I read (right here on this site) she is a heiferette er sumn?

I'm sticking with "bovine" and ain't never gunna bring up chickens (or roosters or capons or pullets or hens) or peacocks (or peachicks or peahens or peas porridge in a pot nine days old) 

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Twice is at least once.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I believe "heiferette" is more of a marketing term.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Our female "cattle"... oops, there I go again, I mean COWS haven't had any calves.... not even one calf, but I will still call them COWS....just to keep it nice & peaceful.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Heifers.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

My cows eat foxtail just fine if it's made young. They'll lick the feeder clean. Old and they just ignore it.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> My cows eat foxtail just fine if it's made young. They'll lick the feeder clean. Old and they just ignore it.


Same here.

About cows/cattle/bovines etc. The only thing that I wish people would learn on calves are the terms bull, heifer and steer.

A cow with her first calf is by defination a heiferette. (I looked it up a few years ago because the term was new to me) I have never heard the term heiferette used in real life. Locally they are called "first calf heifers" which is not really possible.

I use the phrase "going to feed the cows" even though I am feeding the calves, bulls and cows.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Cow - really????!!

I thought it was Daisy, Saddie and other names like that.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> Same here.
> 
> About cows/cattle/bovines etc. The only thing that I wish people would learn on calves are the terms bull, heifer and steer.
> .........................
> I use the phrase "going to feed the cows" even though I am feeding the calves, bulls and cows.


Hey, I'm here to learn. From now on, before I walk out the door, I will say "I'm going over to feed the cows", even though 4 of 5 have a thingy hanging down.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Hey, I'm here to learn. From now on, before I walk out the door, I will say "I'm going over to feed the cows", even though 4 of 5 have a thingy hanging down.


Sounds better to me than saying I am going to feed the cattle.

I have to be careful when I say bovines. The average person does not know what one is.

One time a few years ago a local bought several cow/calf pairs at the sale. He ran the calves back through and brought the cows home. There were 20+ cows on our busy road looking for their calves. It caused chaos. A very upset deputy told me to get my cows out of the road. I told him I did not have any cows, that I raised stockers. He pointed to the stocker calves in my pasture and said, "Those are cows in your pasture". I replied they were calves that I did not own any momma cows. He grew more and more upset. He thought I was trying to avoid liability. In his mind if it went MOO it was a cow.

I asked hime to put in writing that those were my cows, that he gave me ownership and when the real owner showed up I would claim them as mine.

I guess it upset me more because we were trying to get the cows in my pasture when he arrived and began spouting off.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> Sounds better to me than saying I am going to feed the cattle.
> I have to be careful when I say bovines. The average person does not know what one is.
> 
> One time a few years ago a local bought several cow/calf pairs at the sale. He ran the calves back through and brought the cows home. There were 20+ cows on our busy road looking for their calves. It caused chaos. A very upset deputy told me to get my cows out of the road. I told him I did not have any cows, that I raised stockers. He pointed to the stocker calves in my pasture and said, "Those are cows in your pasture". I replied they were calves that I did not own any momma cows. He grew more and more upset. He thought I was trying to avoid liability. In his mind if it went MOO it was a cow.
> ...


Most idgits think if it's got horns it's a bull, and if it don't it's a cow... end of story as far as they're concerned...

When I was in the police academy, considering the area we were in, I thought we should have had a class on handling cattle... because most cops don't have a friggin' clue, even the ones living in rural areas...

We handle all our cattle on foot (I've never even been on a horse, and wouldn't have a stinking hay burner if it was given to me-- I don't trust anything that doesn't have a clutch and brake pedal). It's easy enough to do IF you know the psychology of cattle and how to do it...

One time I came along and found an entire herd up the road from me out on the road... I turned on my four way flashers, got out and started gently moving back and forth, weaving my way forward, and got them all to get off the roadsides they were grazing and back into the yard, pulled the truck up on the culvert, got out and worked my way around and ran the whole herd back into the pasture and closed the gate, all by myself...

Last time I had a heifer crawl under the fence, I had two idgit cops with their lights on, beeping their sirens periodically, chasing the thing up and down the roadside over a half mile stretch about 3-4 times before they FINALLY chased her up into my folk's driveway... I got there and slipped around the house and opened the back gate to the pasture and slipped back around to the front of the house, and got her to trot around back and into the pasture and closed the gate behind her...

They're real good about opening the first gate they come to and running them in, whether they're yours or not... ended up with six extra calves one day because of that thanks to some idgit cop... guy from up the road finally got ahold of me several days later and asked if he could come get them on his horse... he had to run them out of my herd, I opened the gate, he ran them out on the road, and then ran them down the ditch bottom to his place up the road a half mile or so away on the other side...

Later! OL JR


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Heiferete is a term used for a hfr that was bred and may have slipped the calf or she had it and the calf was taken and she was put back on feed in the feedlot.More then likely she wasn't bred on purpose,bull jumped the fence or the the guy let Bulls run with the calves to long and they got bred before even weaned.Or the bull calves got the job done.

Typically if you buy hfrs to feed or even to breed they are sleeved at the sale barn to gaurentee open.That won't detect something that is short bred so a lot of feedlots will give a lutalyce shot which aborts them.

Pretty big discount from a fat hfr to a heiferett.Mostly it's an age thing,get old enough called hard one at packer hell of a discount.And they could be carrying a udder from calving so a few more pds in the dog food.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

luke strawwalker said:


> Most idgits think if it's got horns it's a bull, and if it don't it's a cow... end of story as far as they're concerned...
> 
> Later! OL JR


Oh I constantly stump the "experts" when they come over and see our Dexters. They have horns and they say, "nice bulls" or "nice steer", but they're females, I mean heifers, I mean COWS.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Oh I constantly stump the "experts" when they come over and see our Dexters. They have horns and they say, "nice bulls" or "nice steer", but they're females, I mean heifers, I mean COWS.


Same thing here.

I have 2 polled bulls. People think I am cruel and cut their horns off. "All bulls have horns" is a more common misconception than I thought.

We do have one cow we bought that was dehorned when we bought her. She has short stubs. I was told not to breed her because she was abnormal because she had short horns.

I remember reading about the Ford truck commercial last year or the year before during the Super Bowl. They had to use a horned bull rather than the polled bull originally intended. The Ford executives said they could not use a "dehorned" bull. When corrected in their beliefs they said if it confused them then it would also confuse the general public.

I believe showing the polled bull, then clearing up the controversy would have kept the commercial in the spotlight longer. Free headlines.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Clearly HT is distributing electronic Egg Nog. To create a diversion i started a thread in pest management


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The Foxtail was covered pretty well so we just started chasing rabbits.


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> Oh I constantly stump the "experts" when they come over and see our Dexters. They have horns and they say, "nice bulls" or "nice steer", but they're females, I mean heifers, I mean COWS.


I guess too many people watch PBR and suddenly become experts at identifying a bull


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its funny the words develop local definitions.

Here, I say I have cows, it just means any cows broadly but likely involved in dairy use.

If I said I had cattle, more than likely people assume I'm talking about raising them for beef.

If I said I had a bred heifer here, it doesn't tell anyone if its beef or dairy.

I have never heard anyone use the term heiferete here, not ever. People would probably think I'm trying to say a french word.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Its funny the words develop local definitions.
> 
> Here, I say I have cows, it just means any cows broadly but likely involved in dairy use.
> 
> ...


Exact same thing here Slowzuki. A little backround as to how I got started incorrectly calling my COWS being raised as beef animals "cattle" (which I now know is incorrect).
I grew up next to the King Ranch in Unionville, PA. It was 14,000 acres. The "cows" were brought in on rail cars, but nothing compared to some other operations south of me, I'm sure.
When the cattle, I mean cows arrived on the rail cars from Texas, it was a local event. They'd open the doors and they'd run out onto the ranch. Back then, they called them "cattle", which is where I got my incorrect term for my little herd.
They were fattened up on our local lush grasses and all of them would be slaughtered for beef. None were milked and as far as I know, few or none were bred, either. Signs were put up in local stores about new "cattle" arriving or "cattle drive event". NOW I know all along I guess it was cows and the 100 year old King Ranch had it wrong????
I'm no King Ranch with my whopping 5 head of "cows" I'm fattening up for beef, and I do get some funny looks from the feed store and my neighbor when as of a week or 2 ago, I stopped calling them cattle and started calling them "cows",,,,, but I'm catching on.

Some of the locals that milk cows are also correcting me when I call my beef cows "cows"?? They're telling me, "no, what you got there are cattle adding exponentially to the confusion!! Truthfully, I was also calling my male cows "steer" since they were castrated, which is also called "banded" or "wired"? Never knew those were cows, too!!
Oh well, I have 2 more calves coming today (I hope), but are they "calves" or "calfs"?

I need to get up to speed on my terminology. I'm getting mired down like a pig in slop!!  or is it a hog????

Please pass the egg nog-heavy on the rum!!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> Exact same thing here Slowzuki. A little backround as to how I got started incorrectly calling my COWS being raised as beef animals "cattle" (which I now know is incorrect).
> I grew up next to the King Ranch in Unionville, PA. It was 14,000 acres. The cows were brought in on rail cars, but nothing compared to some other operations south of me, I'm sure.
> When the cattle, I mean cows arrived on the rail cars from Texas, it was a local event.


If one has ever had any experience with the King Ranches bred of cattle Santa Gertrudis one wonders what the ranch management thought was so good about the breed?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

There is all kinds of local dialect in farming, on PEI a province next to ours that is major farming location they describe plows as being 2 sod or 3 sod plows rather than saying furrow or bottom. Right next door we use furrow or bottom to describe it.

Corn and other grain is sold by the ton here and farmers look at you funny if you try to talk bushels.


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## socohay (Jul 21, 2015)

Very entertaining post. Fwiw, i have always thought of "cattle" as plural. Been in the cattle business all my life, bulls that fail to be bulls become steers, get fattened and become freezer beef. We get calls all year, wondering when they can buy half a cow again!! Sometimes you can try all you want with cityboys, but they just dont/cant/wantto get it. All i care is that keep eating beef!


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## socohay (Jul 21, 2015)

Oh, and with foxtail we have had good luck with a properly timed early spring burn along with all the other controls mentioned except for poast.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD- cattle is correct. I have a small fold of Highland cattle.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> JD- cattle is correct. I have a small fold of Highland cattle.


Wait. I thought a Fold was a wallet, or a crease in a garment. Now I am originally from the upper mid west. Wisconsin to be more precise (not Madison as some would suspect  ) And this one does not ring a bell.

I never heard of a Fold related to a "Flock" Or perhaps a bunch, more than 2 cattle. However, I do like it..

As well, I do like the idea of a flock of Cows.... Just to confuse the city folk! Otherwise I always see them as "Beef" in the field.

Oh and yes, to be respectful Foxtail Is a pain.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

A "flock of cows"......unlike a murder of crows. 

Regards, Mike


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I heard my herd of cows mooing.

When we go to registered bull sales or hear those full time in the cattle business, they always refer to bovines as cattle.

I annually get snookered into providing cattle of some sort to a local fundraiser called the "cow paddy drop". It becomes entertaining listening to the observers butcher all cattle related terms.

I have a few cows that are friendly pets. I never fail getting asked how I can eat a cow that is a pet. I reply that we do not sell/eat cows, we raise and sell their calves, that the momma cows make the money. The blank look is priceless. People are so out of touch. Including the more affluent ********.

PS Foxtail has little nutritional value. Is the foxtail we fight in our hay fields the same as Foxtail Millet? If so, then we probably need to begin using the official terminology. If the grasses are different then we need an elaborate discussion on which is what.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Tim/South said:


> PS Foxtail has little nutritional value. Is the foxtail we fight in our hay fields the same as Foxtail Millet? If so, then we probably need to begin using the official terminology. If the grasses are different then we need an elaborate discussion on which is what.


I knew little of it's nutritional value. A couple of years ago, I was offered a field which was mostly Setaria viridis. I was sure to harvest early and often to make sure it didn't go to head at all. All my cows (some with udders, some with rudders) at it fine. I remember dad had "sudan grass" field when I was a wee tot. He/we didn't do any haying at the time and it was baled on shares. Lost a couple of cattle that winter and vet said they starved to death with a full belly. That's been nearly 40 years ago and dad still laments and feels terrible about that lack of knowledge and avoidable outcome. We still talk about that as one of the saddest things we have ever done to our critters.

73, Mark


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Wait. I thought a Fold was a wallet, or a crease in a garment. Now I am originally from the upper mid west. Wisconsin to be more precise (not Madison as some would suspect  ) And this one does not ring a bell.
> I never heard of a Fold related to a "Flock" Or perhaps a bunch, more than 2 cattle. However, I do like it..
> 
> As well, I do like the idea of a flock of Cows.... Just to confuse the city folk! Otherwise I always see them as "Beef" in the field.
> ...


And don't forget a flock of seagulls!!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> And don't forget a flock of seagulls!!


A gaggle of geese;

A pride of lions;

And a stolen of politicians.

Ralph


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## Berger (Jan 10, 2016)

I'll run the shredder over it with it set just high enough to top the foxtail.

Galaxy J5 glass screen protectors


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