# Opinions on '99-'04 Case IH Disc Mower Conditions?



## SvdSinner

I've noticed that in the used market, Case IH DC series (1999-2000) and DCX series (2001-2004) seem to be thousands of dollars less than other, similar disc mower conditioners. (Which as a small weekend warrior hay cutter with a single 80 acre field, that makes a big difference, since I'm very marginally producing enough hay to justify upgrading past my old sickle mower/conditioner) The idea of being able to buy, say, a DC515 for $9-10K and having a 15' center pivot mower is really appealing, but I don't know much about the Case IH units, and my spider sense is tingling a little bit. (IOW, are these a deal too good to be true?)

Is there some design flaw in these units that makes it obvious why they are selling so much cheaper than other units, or did they just sell really well originally and there are lots of them on the market now?

I won't have money freed up to buy/not buy one for a few months, but I thought that I would start asking around now to find out if these units are worth buying when a good used deal presents itself, or if they have some "stay away" feature that I should know about.


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## ROLLNITUP

I think heston made ih hay tools back then


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## Josh in WNY

CaseIH merged with New Holland in 1999 (both owned by Fiat). Once that happened, CaseIH hay equipment switched from being made by Heston/AGCO/Massey to being a NH with a CaseIH paint job. As far as I know, CaseIH never made their own hay equipment, they just bought someone elses and put a different paint job on it. I have run the older (mid-90s) CaseIH mowers before, but not the newer ones. I would think there wouldn't be much quality difference between the CaseIH and NH mowers of that time, but I've been wrong before.


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## Toyes Hill Angus

I beleive rollinitup is right 8309, 8312, 8315 were all made by Hesston (if it makes you happy, then the 8309 was made by new idea). I don't know about the 15' machine but the others worked well if looked after wich is no different than any other machine built by any other manufacturer.


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## SvdSinner

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> I beleive rollinitup is right 8309, 8312, 8315 were all made by Hesston (if it makes you happy, then the 8309 was made by new idea). I don't know about the 15' machine but the others worked well if looked after wich is no different than any other machine built by any other manufacturer.


That actually brings up a secondary question: What other make/models should I be looking for on the used market that I might be able to buy a functional 13+' wide unit for <$12K? (Preferably under $10K, but I might pay a bit more for something newer/nicer)
So far my list to scan used offerings for is: (Expanded because of the above)
Case IH DX515
Case IH DCX161
Case IH DCX131
Case IH 8315
Case IH 8313
Hesston 1345

(I've got a 115HP JD4320 that should be able to handle the horsepower requirements for anything I find)


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## Toyes Hill Angus

new idea 5212 is 12' cut and I can't say for sure if this is the same as the 8312 but I think it is, and it uses the same cutterdeck design as the 3309 CIH/ 5209 NI. They seem to be fairly affordable?! not priced out of orbit any how

edit: 5212 New Idea has the same cutter deck as the 5209 NI both mahines are end pull
8312 is a Hesston cutter deck,and center pivot... so not at all what I had originally said. ooopsy


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## Negligence

A 15' is a bit overkill for 80 acres -- I'd say you're probably better off with a 13'. You can also look at the NH1431 and equivalent, they are the same as the Case. They can all be retrofitted with the shock hubs too.

As far as I know there's no catch with the DCX's. They, like most other discbines, aren't worth 15k-18K after a few years in the field like you might expect. The only ones that fetch 15K+ are in really good shape / low acreage.


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## Toyes Hill Angus

I hope you have 150 plus HP to run a big disc mower, you'll need it. Guys here go a little overkill and use 129 HP on a 9' machine, but a big center pivot sure feels better with a heavy tractor on the drawbar end. Less like rolling over upsidedown!!!
but on the upside of things, i bet you could cut the whole feild with a 15' center pivot on under 3 hrs.


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## mlappin

For 80 acres a 9' will be more than adequate and won't require near the tractor. Usually sell for less than the center pivots as well.

I was mowing 200 acres with a 12 foot sickle machine before I traded to a discbine.


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## Larry

The CIH 8309's is not like a the older CIH 3309's which are a New Idea disc mower.

As for 80 acres a 9ft. disc mower would cut that down in about 12 hrs driving at 8mph.....drive faster and you'll be done quicker!

I typicaly make about 320 acres twice a year with a CIH 3309 9ft disc mower. But I make square bales and a 9ft works best for that in my crops. IF you have lighter crops then yes a wider machine like 12 ft would work better probably. We used to have a 12ft new holland haybine and in the heavy crops we only cut 9ft and full with in the lighter 2nd cut. However we found we could save a day drying sometines in the heavy first cut by using the 9 foot disc mower. When you take a 9foot cut with a 12ft machine half the swath is "thicker" on the one side still. Where as with the 9ft machine it spreads the 9 feet even the whole with of the swath you lay down. But ..... this is in my climate and conditons depending where ya live make'n hay is vastly different!


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## SvdSinner

mlappin said:


> For 80 acres a 9' will be more than adequate and won't require near the tractor.


My situation is that I already have a big, old tractor ([email protected] JD 4320, approx 14,000lbs), and a full-time non-hay-cutting job, so time is my most valuable commodity. I've got a 9' unit, but my thinking is that if it is only a few thousand more for a 13' or a 15', and it would drop my cutting time down to 2 evening @ 4 hours each, or one weekend day, which would be A LOT more convenient than cutting for 3 evenings or 2 weekend days.

I've got help that I can hire for extra labor, and I'd rather hired help rake/bale over mowing. (IMHO, I'm less worried about them hurting the rake or baler than driving the mower into a rock/stump/gopher mound too hard and ruining it. Amongst my neighbors, we've seen numerous hired people ruin mowers, but nobody has every hurt a rake or a baler.)

I'm here listening to learn from you guys' opinions, so if any of my thinking seems wrong, I'm all ears.


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## Toyes Hill Angus

The chice is up to you in the end but 116 HP is not by any means excessive for a 15' disc mower, as a mater of fact in my immediate area there are five dairy farmers that use more HP for 9 and 10' mowers on flat ground. They can run as fast as they can stay in the seat with the field conditions about 15mph or so. On the other hand, I have a freind that has a 1431 (13') NH he pulls with an 8360 NH (115 HP) and can not pull it faster than 6mph. He says he could cut more hay in a day with 10' going at a faster ground speed before they got the bigger machine now.
Time is money and I can relate to that but I would recommend that you try the machine out on your tracto before you sighn the check for it, I would hate for you to run out of power. Keep in mind also that the smaller ones have less cutter pots and there fore less maintance acordingly


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## mlappin

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> The chice is up to you in the end but 116 HP is not by any means excessive for a 15' disc mower


I have about 118hp on my 13' NH discbine and the last few springs when the first cutting was a month late making because it just wouldn't stop raining, I wished I had at least another 25hp in the tractor.


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## Negligence

Horsepower will not be an issue. A typical 13' specs the minimums to be around 90 @ the PTO, so with 120 you will have more than enough to deal with hills/etc. I have my eye on an '06 DCX131 and it will be pulled by a Fiat 130-90 (110 PTO) 4x4. I cannot imagine having any trouble with it. Keep in mind that's enough tractor to run a large square baler.

SvdSinner, I'm in the same boat as you. I've been using a 9' sickle mower and it sucks up my time with the low speed, plugging, etc. I need to get home from work, hop on and be done a 20 acre field by evening. I'd go for the 13' if finances permit and you can find a better deal on it than a 10' model.


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## Larry

I think it will but it depends on how fast one plans on driving. I have a 9ft disc mower (for 20 years)and it will make a 90hp tractor work (and use the diesel) at times depending on conditions. Again depends on traveling speed, if one slows down its a non issue. But the advantage of a disc mower is you can travel at higher speeds.


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## haystax

We have two Case IH 8312 mowers and have used them since new around '96 or so. I couldn't be happier with the units and I think the 12' makes the most sense for a couple reasons -

1. You can cut as fast as the field conditions will allow, there will be very little lost productiity compared to a 15'

2. The 12' machine is less prone to plugging than the 15' on the outside "hats" due to the fact there is only one "cage" rather than two on the ends of the cutterbar. Many of my neighbors use self propelled Hesston 15' rotary machines and have had to purchase 12' pull type mowers for heavy tonnage, short crops such as Orchardgrass 2nd and 3rd cuttings as the 15' would plug too badly.

3. 12' windrow dries better and is a better size to tedd/rake/bale than 15'. Who cares how much you can cut in a day if it won't dry in time to bale it and produce a quality product.

Hope that helps - I would still buy another 8312 compared to all the other new models available today. Anything newer I would have to go with MacDon as the new Case is just repainted New Holland junk.


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## haybaler101

Negligence said:


> Horsepower will not be an issue. A typical 13' specs the minimums to be around 90 @ the PTO, so with 120 you will have more than enough to deal with hills/etc. I have my eye on an '06 DCX131 and it will be pulled by a Fiat 130-90 (110 PTO) 4x4. I cannot imagine having any trouble with it. Keep in mind that's enough tractor to run a large square baler.
> 
> SvdSinner, I'm in the same boat as you. I've been using a 9' sickle mower and it sucks up my time with the low speed, plugging, etc. I need to get home from work, hop on and be done a 20 acre field by evening. I'd go for the 13' if finances permit and you can find a better deal on it than a 10' model.


I run a NH7450 (13 ft disc) on an IH 966 w/turbo (same as a 1066). In heavy hay, it will suck down 10 gal/diesel an hour and max out at about 8 to 9 mph. Tractor has not been dynoed but should be around 140 hp. Also use a CIH 7220 (factory 155 hp, mines turned up) and it will max at about 11 to 12mph in heavy hay. Also use this tractor on NH BB940A 3x3 baler and wouldn't want anything lighter or with less hp. Just my thoughts.


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## SvdSinner

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> They can run as fast as they can stay in the seat with the field conditions about 15mph or so.


So let me ask another question from you experienced guys. Running a sickle, I've never ran past 8mph (as recommended by the owners manual). 
* All the new Disc mowers say in the owners manual not to exceed 8mph. 
* The two guys I know locally who love going >>8mph with disk mowers have both broken one or more cutter bars hitting gopher mounds, etc. at high speed at least once in the last few years. 
* Each of their repairs was >$2k when they broke stuff hitting things going >>8mph.

All things being equal, wouldn't wider & slower be more economical (due to lower repair bills) in the long run than narrower and faster? Obviously, I've got a small local sample size, so the 3 accidents between the 2 guys I know might be a fluke, but it kind of scares me away from flying along at >>8mph in my field. (I'm not even sure I'm totally comfortable going that fast when I'm NOT mowing in that field. It is flat, but does have a few minor bumps and ruts that I think I would find if I blasted across at 15mph.)


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## mlappin

Negligence said:


> Horsepower will not be an issue. A typical 13' specs the minimums to be around 90 @ the PTO, so with 120 you will have more than enough to deal with hills/etc.


Gotta remember though, most manufacturers recommendations are for ideal conditions. Level fields, hay being cut on time before it goes down and gets rank from excessive rain and most likely running at below the max recommended ground speed.

My 1600 Oliver (67hp) would run my BR 740A round baler okay, but I didn't get my moneys worth out of the baler until I placed a 110hp tractor on it.

Owners manual said 65hp should have ran it.


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## Toyes Hill Angus

Operator's/owner's manuals are guidelines, although they are good guidelines they are not the law. Minimum HP is normally just a guess formed by some level of experience and the weight of the implement. I have seen a 5288 IH run an 8 wheel rake and I have also seen a 3000 Ford on an 8 spinner tedder. The only thing you should be aware of is this... people are nuts. You are the one who has to live with your decision, if you want to buy this big mower, you will have to live with it. If you can I would rent it, try it on your own tractor in your own hay with you at the helm. It's your choice, make an informed one, there is no point in proving your issue to people on this forum who run this type of equipment daily. since it's your money you get to make the call, but don't bitch after


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## Larry

SvdSinner said:


> So let me ask another question from you experienced guys. Running a sickle, I've never ran past 8mph (as recommended by the owners manual).
> * *All the new Disc mowers say in the owners manual not to exceed 8mph. *
> * The two guys I know locally who love going >>8mph with disk mowers have both broken one or more cutter bars hitting gopher mounds, etc. at high speed at least once in the last few years.
> * Each of their repairs was >$2k when they broke stuff hitting things going >>8mph.
> 
> All things being equal, wouldn't wider & slower be more economical (due to lower repair bills) in the long run than narrower and faster? Obviously, I've got a small local sample size, so the 3 accidents between the 2 guys I know might be a fluke, but it kind of scares me away from flying along at >>8mph in my field. (I'm not even sure I'm totally comfortable going that fast when I'm NOT mowing in that field. It is flat, but does have a few minor bumps and ruts that I think I would find if I blasted across at 15mph.)


I curious which companies state not to travel faster than 8 mph? 
We had a NH haybind for years it worked well but it was no comparision to a disc mower. To be fair though it was an older sickle machine the newest ones out I'm sure cut good.

What I like the most is you don't have to get off to up plug the cutter bar like on the old sickle machine. Some damp falls here it can be quite difficult cutting hay with a sickle machine depending on the conditions. We always kept the guards and sickle in top conditon. We actually always started the season with a new sickle in the machine.


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## slowzuki

Went from a 9 ft NH489 sickle bar moco on 52 pto hp to a 10 ft Pottinger 305 novacat on 80 pto hp. My mowing time dropped to less than 1/2 from speed and no plugging. The sickle bar could mow at 4-5.5 mph before having problems plugging, ragged cut. I run right about 8-10 mph on the disk moco but run out of power on the hills, and its too rough in my fields to go faster on the way down.

I just bought a 3309 disc mower to run as a backup so we'll see how the higher efficiency bevel gear bed does for cutting up hill.


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## Negligence

Just wonder how the original poster ended up? I just picked up a 2006 CaseIH DCX131 (13', rubber rolls, skid shoes, in mint condition). I am very impressed with the quality of these machines. It's also good to know that they are still in production (just a few cosmetic changes I believe, but fundamentally the same machine).

I paid $13K (CDN) for it. They had it lined up next to a brand new machine and little difference could be seen.


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## Nitram

WOW! Looks like someone forgot to use it before they traded it in congratulations!


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## haybaler101

My '06 NH 1431 didn't look that good when it was brand new, not alone when I traded it off last year for a 7450H. It had about 6000 acres thru it and the dealer still got 12 grand out of it!


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