# P-poor lumber



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I was building a new ladder up into my loft out 2x4's. I had everything measured and ready to hang when a 10' 2x4 fell over and went across a saw horse. 

The 2x4 split edgewise!

I simply cannot imagine how poor this NEW lumber was!

I'm not sure I want to build a ladder out of lumber now.

Ralph


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Steel. Lumber quality has been in a negative slide ever since the big chains largely replaced the old lumber stores. I remember those stores fondly but then also remember seeing a triceratops now and then on the way to town


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Try to find a sawyer nearby with his own sawmill. Prices will be way cheaper and if he's worth half a hoot the quality will be better too. Lots of them will come to you and sawmill what you want but you have to have a level site with clean logs staged and usually somebody tailing the mill.


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## farmergann (Oct 21, 2021)

HayMike linked to a good video in the Solar Panel discussion that probably has a lot to do with the issue you're noticing... Wonder how close you are to one of these? Mapping The Biomass Industry | Environmental Paper Network


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Hayman1 said:


> Steel. Lumber quality has been in a negative slide ever since the big chains largely replaced the old lumber stores. I remember those stores fondly but then also remember seeing a triceratops now and then on the way to town


I don't think this is really true. There's basically 3 major lumber warehouses/suppliers in the country that supply everyone, whether it be the smaller lumber stores or the chains.


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Lumber like many things is graded and comes in different species if your doing critical work get the appropriate grade and species......one thing you will notice is treated lumber always comes in higher grades as it is mostly bought and used for structural applications


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hayjosh said:


> I don't think this is really true. There's basically 3 major lumber warehouses/suppliers in the country that supply everyone, whether it be the smaller lumber stores or the chains.


my point was that it was better back when, not necessarily due to who sells it.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

ttazzman said:


> Lumber like many things is graded and comes in different species if your doing critical work get the appropriate grade and species......one thing you will notice is treated lumber always comes in higher grades as it is mostly bought and used for structural applications


Went to a big box store yesterday to check lumber and they only have one grade for 2x4's--surprised me. I was looking for a higher grade plain lumber and didn't need pressure treated.

I have heard that lumber quality largely has to due with the "fast growth" common pine. Slow growth has the rings closer together thus making a denser wood. Pine used to grow at about 1/8" per year. Fast growth gets up to 1/2" per year--but this makes for a less dense (i.e., weaker) wood.

I had also heard that the migration to fast growth was to keep the housing industry supplied with cheaper wood. I have also heard that new housing is designed to last about 7-8 years because the average homeowner only lives in the same house about 5 years.

Ralph
Commodities trading 101: "Buy the rumor, sell the fact."


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

rjmoses said:


> Went to a big box store yesterday to check lumber and they only have one grade for 2x4's--surprised me. I was looking for a higher grade plain lumber and didn't need pressure treated.
> 
> I have heard that lumber quality largely has to due with the "fast growth" common pine. Slow growth has the rings closer together thus making a denser wood. Pine used to grow at about 1/8" per year. Fast growth gets up to 1/2" per year--but this makes for a less dense (i.e., weaker) wood.
> 
> ...


There is some level of truth in all those statements....but for example of wood type and grading you will not find any roof trusses made of the low density low grade woods your seeing at box stores...but yes you see more of it as 2x6 studs since using 2x6s allows for structural margins over 2x4s and allows for more insulation etc.......also while some home building products have a limited lifespan the construction is designed to last long enough to satisfy a inspector and ultimately a mortgage lender


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

I was thinking about this very topic a week ago as I was at a big box retailer sorting through a stack of 2x4's to get ten decent boards. Most of the culls had live edges on them. Thirty years ago, we would call these "economy studs", which were intended for building dog houses and to cut up for bracing.

Reminds me of a story about a co-worker thirty years back. He was building a house and was trying to contract it himself and build it cheap. Came to the site after work one day and found a note nailed to a semi-erect stud wall: "We're carpenters, not magicians. If you want us to build this house, buy some decent wood." (I omitted all the curse words, LOL)


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I will say the Home Depot near me has a 70% off rack. They go through and every board that Twists bends or cups they put on that cart I can't tell you how many feet of decent wood I've have gotten off of that. Especially if you only need a 6 ft 2 by. Buy the 8-footer that has a Twist on the end and just cut it off. I end up with a six foot two by four for less than a dollar


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Ralph you're talking about the difference between Spruce-Pine-Fir (SPF) lumber vs SYP (Southern Yellow Pine). SYP comes in several grades and is used for structural wood. It's very dense and has a higher strength rating than SPF which is your typical framing lumber.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

SPF (and Douglas fir, Hem-Fir and "Northern") comes in various grades too, Select Structural, No.1, No.2, No.3, Stud and economy(construction and standard, utility I think named for US?). Locally all they carry is #2 and stud, you have to order other grades.

In the Canada around 1990 all the wood design spans and strengths were reduced for softwoods as they are mainly grown in thinned plantations now with wide growth rings.


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