# Alfalfa lodging



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I have a problem with my alfalfa lodging. This is my fourth year growing alfalfa and nearly every cutting of alfalfa I have ever cut has been lodged. I feel that I might be losing quite a bit of tonnage and quality when it is lodged because the lower leaves all turn yellow from a lack of sun and fall off. Not to mention a pain to cut and many times end up with a shaggy stubble depending on how flat it went. I dont think it is a variety problem as I now have three different brands of alfalfa and each one ends up lodging.

Is there anything I can do to keep it from lodging? Also curious to hear if anyone else has this issue.

Hayden


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Yellow on bottom leaves can also be a sign you need to spray fungicide. How mature is the alfalfa?


----------



## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I have one field planted with the same issue and I refuse to plant any more. I think that all the alfalfa bred today is bred for tonnage and to be chopped. When I was a kid 1st cut had it's issues but after that it hardly ever went down.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

stack em up said:


> Yellow on bottom leaves can also be a sign you need to spray fungicide. How mature is the alfalfa?


 This year I have had an issue with leaf spot diseases and should have sprayed a fungicide. Typically though the leaves turn yellow from a lack of sunlight after it lodges and is laying flat on the ground. It usually goes down pre bud....I aim to cut at early bloom.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

farmerbrown said:


> I have one field planted with the same issue and I refuse to plant any more. I think that all the alfalfa bred today is bred for tonnage and to be chopped. When I was a kid 1st cut had it's issues but after that it hardly ever went down.


I agree the plant breeders have been breeding for dairy hay cut every 28 days.The alfalfa now days has finer stems then yrs ago and probably tests higher also.

I have less standibility issues since I've planted more grass in the mix.

There are some varieties with Standfast technology that do stand better.

I don't worry about a couple leaves if cutting gets delayed because of weather.It's just part of haying.And even if hay is flattened from a storm I will get it by tilting the cutter.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Lodging is so common here as to hardly be remarked on.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> Lodging is so common here as to hardly be remarked on.


First cutting almost always gets the crop lifters installed. This year was the first time I didn't have to.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Lodging is so common here as to hardly be remarked on.


 Well maybe I'm concerned about nothing and that is just the nature of alfalfa? What gets me though is I see pictures of alfalfa fields that are standing tall and I can't help but wonder if I'm doing something wrong that mine is almost always laying flat on the ground? I know lodging can be minimized by limiting the nitrogen rate in small grains but I wasn't sure how or if lodging could be minimized in alfalfa.


----------



## MFSuper90 (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you fertilized your alfalfa? I used to have a field that was always lodging. Turns out I was low in potash even though our souls in my area produce a natural potash. I fertilized with liquid and injected it with a liquid bar that I rented from the coop. It was on 20" centers and I made two passes over it at half rate and have not had a lodging issue this year. Agronomist said that the potash helps promote healthy cell wall structure and would make it stand up. Also had way less disease pressure


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

MFSuper90 said:


> Have you fertilized your alfalfa? I used to have a field that was always lodging. Turns out I was low in potash even though our souls in my area produce a natural potash. I fertilized with liquid and injected it with a liquid bar that I rented from the coop. It was on 20" centers and I made two passes over it at half rate and have not had a lodging issue this year. Agronomist said that the potash helps promote healthy cell wall structure and would make it stand up. Also had way less disease pressure


 Yes, I do fertilize with potash, phosphate, sulfur, manganese, and boron. In previous years I was using ammonium sulfate as my sulfur source but this year I switched to sulfate of potash as my sulfur source because I was thinking maybe the nitrogen in the ammonium sulfate was what was causing the alfalfa to lodge so much but it doesn't appear that was the cause.


----------



## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Well this problem does add a plus to you still owning that haybine!


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Colby said:


> Well this problem does add a plus to you still owning that haybine!


 Keeping my fingers crossed but I think I may have it sold. It cuts clean going into the way it is laid down but if I go with the way it is laid down it just rides over it and leaves a shaggy stubble. I imagine a disc moco would be about the same way.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

What I found was in lodged alfalfa, discbine was worse. There isn't always enough suction to lift the crop and instead blows it down. Then again, I only used it on 30 acres so maybe playing around with it more I could've fine tuned it.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

My brother just made the switch from sickle to disc last year and one of the draw backs of disc is that they don't cut lodged crop as clean.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

If it is not real rocky ground, tilt the cutter bar down on a disc mower.....get out and make sure it's not tilted too far forward....cut a little and check it.

Regards, Mike


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Vol said:


> If it is not real rocky ground, tilt the cutter bar down on a disc mower.....get out and make sure it's not tilted too far forward....cut a little and check it.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yea i've cut 1000's of acres over the yrs that has been flat from wind-rain storms and got it all by tilting the head down.Only leaving 1" of stuble so it is hard on blades and you will find every rock in the field!


----------



## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

MFSuper90 said:


> Have you fertilized your alfalfa? I used to have a field that was always lodging. Turns out I was low in potash even though our souls in my area produce a natural potash. I fertilized with liquid and injected it with a liquid bar that I rented from the coop. It was on 20" centers and I made two passes over it at half rate and have not had a lodging issue this year. Agronomist said that the potash helps promote healthy cell wall structure and would make it stand up. Also had way less disease pressure


I agree with Super90 regarding fertilizing with potash. Most scientists attribute the strengthened stem to the potassium in potash, or KCl. However, research in OR, MT, SD, and Texas, and possibly other states that I do not know of at this time, have found that the chloride (Cl) in the potash reduces the incidence of certain diseases in small grains, thereby helping to support stem strength. Perhaps this also occurs in alfalfa.

So, even though a soil test indicates there is adequate K in a soil, there may not be sufficient Cl to help fight disease. That said, even though I apply high levels of potash to my alfalfa soil, the alfalfa still lodges when a high wind accompanies a rain storm as the plants approach bud stage. Not all of it goes down however. The only N applied to our alfalfa comes from DAP (18-46-0) and that is very little N bc I may only apply 30 lb of phosphate per acre for the year. Soil test P is high in this soil.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> If it is not real rocky ground, tilt the cutter bar down on a disc mower.....get out and make sure it's not tilted too far forward....cut a little and check it.
> 
> Regards, Mike





swmnhay said:


> Yea i've cut 1000's of acres over the yrs that has been flat from wind-rain storms and got it all by tilting the head down.Only leaving 1" of stuble so it is hard on blades and you will find every rock in the field!


 Well I guess I will have to try that when I get a disc moco.....most of my ground is very rocky though. With my current haybine cutting as low as possible it still leaves a very shaggy stubble when going with the way it is laid down.


----------



## woodland (May 23, 2016)

stack em up said:


> First cutting almost always gets the crop lifters installed. This year was the first time I didn't have to.


I've never heard or seen someone use crop lifters on alfalfa before. Our alfalfa normally goes down in the heavy spots (unless the rain forgets to show up) and we just tilted the cutterbar ahead on our discbine or the haybine before that. When we've had them on our swather and tried cutting a small patch of grass it usually ended with bending the guard, lifter and breaking a section or two when they dug in the sod.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Okay, I thought I would bring this thread back up since I took some pictures of the lodging I have in almost every cutting of alfalfa. I took a picture of the stubble where I made second cut last week. I had the cutterbar as low as it would cut and it still left a very shaggy stubble when cutting in the same direction it was laying down. Pretty much the whole field was laying on the ground. I also took some pictures of another field that is a little less than knee high and not at bud stage yet and has started lodging. About half the length of the stem is laying over and the leaves are starting to yellow and die and turn slimey from a lack of sun.

I know some of you said that some lodging is normal and not to worry about it but I wanted to see if the amount of lodging that I'm getting is normal? Again it is nearly every cutting ends up like this.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Stems look to be too fine to support the plants.

Regards, Mike

I would do a tissue test to make sure that your Sulphur or Potash is not immobile in the plant.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Stems look to be too fine to support the plants.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> I would do a tissue test to make sure that your Sulphur or Potash is not immobile in the plant.


 The last two pics are of a new spring seeding so the stems are pretty fine.....this variety was also supposed to have fine stems. The stubble pic the stems are pretty dang big......that particular variety the first cutting stems were nearly big as a pencil and it still went on the ground. That is why I planted a finer stemmed variety this year because I have some customers that don't like the real course stems on the other variety. I have three different brands and four different varieties of alfalfa and they all lodge about the same.

I will do a tissue test on a few different fields to see. I had a sulfur deficiency on the new seeding about a month ago and everything was good except for sulfur. I sprayed a liquid sulfur which corrected that.


----------



## Westernstar (Jun 27, 2017)

I assume your dry land? I'm in Washington state and everything is irrigated. It usually wants to lay down some every cutting,first is worse as we're usually waiting on weather some. I try to cut after it starts laying down a little. Usually thigh high at that point. 
I speed up the pivot/less water at a time, as it wants to lay over. Harder to manage with other irrigation methods, specially rain but could run shorter sets on wheel line or hand lines. I discovered when pulling a 946 MoCo which is three point mounted that I could lower the three point in the heavy areas. I ended up cutting some at an inch or so. Sickle machines are maybe a little better, just slow down an give the reel more time.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

When cutting down alfalfa with my NH499 I'd tilt it all the way forward then speed the reel up a lot, and of course drive slower. Maybe actually send tissue samples in of the down alfalfa.


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

What seeding rate do you use? Maybe have to lower the seeding rate a bit.


----------



## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

How tall does it get before it lodges?


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Just now getting a chance to reply.

Yes, this in non irrigated alfalfa.....either don't get enough rain or as in the case of this year way too much rain which I'm sure is making the lodging issue even worse.

My first stand of alfalfa I planted four years ago was seeded at 15lbs since that is as much as the little yard seeder I used would plant. I have upped my rate since then to 20lbs as it seemed a little thin at 15lbs. I have not noticed any difference in the amount of lodging between the different seeding rates.

It usually starts to lodge when it is not quite knee high and still has no bloom buds yet.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Also talked to the agronomist that came and looked at the orchard grass about my lodging issue in alfalfa. I have only had a single cutting on two different fields this year that there was not severe lodging. He said this had to be some kind of a fertility issue.

He said that low levels of calcium, phosphate, and boron are usual suspects of weak stem that contribute to lodging. I apply 3 pounds of boron per acre every year and copious amounts of phosphate so it's kind of baffling to me that those would be the issue. Previous tissue samples show adequate levels. I do have rather constant trouble with manganese and sulfur deficiencies but even after applying nutrients to fix the deficiency the lodging is still an issue and he said those nutrients aren't typically a cause of a weak stem anyway. He did feel my calcium levels on the soil test were slightly low but previous tissue sample show adequate calcium in the plant.

Sending off more soil samples to a different lab than I typically use.....don't have enough growth right now to get a tissue sample sent off. Yet another puzzling issue that no one else seems to have.


----------

