# Farmall 560 miss fire issues



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

We have a farmall 560 that seems to be running really rough. We replaced the spark plugs, wires and distributor. Throws one hell of a spark but it runs really bad. You pull a plug of and it doesn't run any worse. Only 2 make it run worse when it's pulled off. Have two 560s and the wires are run different but one runs perfectly. So I tried to run the bad one the same and the good but it ran even worse.... Im at a loss...


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

How much wobble is in the distributor shaft? This can allow the dwell to do funny things if the bushing is worn out. Another thing to check that many forget about or just don't do it checking the valve gap settings. One day they can just start a sputtering and you end up checking everything else but the valve gap. Let us know what you find out - those are sweet runners when proper. And thirsty buggers when in the governor, just like most gas tractors.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

But why would the wires be different between the two? It just seems weird.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Only way I can envision different firing order on tractors with identical engines is one of the distributors has an "incorrect distributor cap".

Have you checked compression on engine that misfires? How long since valve clearance to rocker arm has been checked?


----------



## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Are the two bad cylinders next to each other, if so I would say blown head gasket.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

The C-263 is notorious for valve train issues. Do a compression test. Check all 6 cylinders, then put a drop of oil down each cylinder as you test compression. If compression on questionable cylinders increases, it's piston rings. If it makes no difference, it's valves.

You will probably also hear a bit of a chirp out the exhaust if it's valves. Just a quick sputter/chirp kind of thing.


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

You could have two different distributors on the two tractors, but this wouldn't change the plug wires routing. Only way to change that is with crankshaft and camshaft changes. The distributor only knows to go in a circle and fire off at every post, regardless of what is happening outside of it. I hope that makes sense...

If it were me I'd do valve/rocker arm clearance first, then check how it runs, then maybe switch wires to match the other tractor and see what happens. If all that fails, I'd do a tune up kit with a NEW condenser installed. Don't ask me how I know to do that.

Actually, I'd probably install a new electronic ignition kit into it, like Pertronics. This would take care of multiple issues that might cause the problems you're having. A little over $100.

Firing order for the 263 gasser is 1-5-3-6-2-4. I think most other straight sixes are this way as well. If your good running tractor is this way (it should be) then your crappy runner should be as well.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

That was kind of my thought. The spark plugs should only go the one way... it was running fine I was disking with it last spring and then it just died like somebody shut the key off. So I pulled it up in the yard put it in the garage and couldn't figure it out so it sat for the winter. I didn't even think the change the points so when I did it fired right up but it ran rough. I was under the impression it's cuz it sat with fuel in it for the winter. So when I ran it was misfiring and fouled the plugs.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

That was kind of my thought. The spark plugs should only go the one way... it was running fine I was disking with it last spring and then it just died like somebody shut the key off. So I pulled it up in the yard put it in the garage and couldn't figure it out so it sat for the winter. I didn't even think the change the points so when I did it fired right up but it ran rough. I was under the impression it's cuz it sat with fuel in it for the winter. So when I ran it was misfiring and fouled the plugs.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Ignition parts are comparatively cheap. I tend to simply start chucking things if there is an ignition malfunction and most of the components are known to have some age on them. Points, condenser, rotor, cap, wires, plugs. None of that stuff lasts forever. But make sure there is a problem with the ignition first. One way to check is to pull the high voltage coil wire off the distributor and let it short to ground in a way it will spark. When the engine is cranked there should be a fat blue spark at every power stroke.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

It gives one heck of a spark. I think I'm going to take all the wires off and make sure it's on correctly. Basically start from Square One as far as ignition goes.


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

I also want to stress again the importance of checking valve clearances. It's shocking just how many people don't do this very important maintenance procedure - and it can cause the symptoms you're speaking of - and it can come on very suddenly fooling you into thinking it's fuel or ignition related. I speak from experience - nothing worse than chasing down and throwing money at a problem that doesn't exist!

Please keep us informed - it will be up on the web "forever" for others to learn from your experiences. Good luck and keep positive - it'll be fixed one way or t'other soon enough.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Just an update. I took all the plugs and wires and distributor off and made damn well sure that it was on there correctly. made a little difference but not a whole lot so I ordered a valve cover gasket and when that gets here I will check all that. Is there some sort of solvent for cleaning that or will a wire wheel be alright


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I'm in stack's camp, while waiting for your gasket, do a compression test on each cylinder.

Larry


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I agree. Will test and see.


----------



## Wrenchhead1968 (Feb 7, 2020)

Ox76 is right on! Pull all the plugs. If you do not have a compression test you use your fingers. If you do not have compression on one cylinder do not right off the engine as bad you simply have rocker arms that fell off the top of the pushrods. I have seen that a lot on those tractors people think the engine is shot and all you need to do is put the rocker arms back on top of the pushrods adjust the valves and it'll run like brand new if that's what the problem is .I wouldn't put too much into a wet and dry compression test until I know the valves are opening and closing correctly if you have any troubles call me and I will walk you through it on the phone 507 822 0646 i'm kind of laid up here and I don't have shit to do and as a diagnostician it would be an honor to contribute and help you need to take that valve cover off no matter what the valves are going to need adjusted no matter if you have to tear the cylinder head off or not get that valve cover off that's where i would start.if you need parts I got parts


----------



## Wrenchhead1968 (Feb 7, 2020)

Obviously sunken valve seats from soft valve seats because it was built in the days of letting gasoline can be a variable as well. All kinds of different variables . Instead of trying to explain all of the different things that it can be just trust me and get that valve cover off. Got to come off one way or another to accurately do A compression test that valve cover needs to come off you could have valves and are stuck open because the seat sunk and you have zero valve lash don't be intimidated I can walk you through the whole thing it's the least I could do for hay talk


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Good opportunity above, with Wrenchhead offering to walk you through and has parts if needed to boot. Yer gettin spoiled now! lol


----------



## Wrenchhead1968 (Feb 7, 2020)

Aaroncboo if I don't get back to any ?'s Im not ignoring you.Hopefully your inspection and setting valves brings her back to life.i'm checking into the heart hospital Monday morning and hopefully they can make apple pie out of horseshit for me. hehe Goodluck with your horseshit I bet it turns to apple pie my friend.I hope to be home soon as I have valve prob's too...


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Man that sucks... But I guess you're getting it fixed so that's a good thing. Good luck! I'm waiting for the valve gasket to come in before I tear the cover off. It should be here Monday


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Pulled the valve cover off and it was dirty as all get out... Adjusted the gaps to spec but the valve cover is got holes rusted through it. So I'll have to get a new one... But it didn't look all that bad besides that. So I can't start it until I get a new cover.


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Could clean it and patch it with JB Weld, or even fiber reinforced bondo. Surface prep is most important here.

If it's dirty that means maintenance wasn't totally up to par, so you might have some reduced oil pressure after awhile. Sometimes happens when new, modern oils clean up an old engine while running - old oil coke and sludge will plug up the oil pump intake screen. No big deal - just time consuming to clean and put back.

Were the valves very far out? Like overly tight clearances?

It's good you're gettin er done.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Some were over tight yes. But I'm thinking the dirtyness was because the holes in the valve cover. I ordered another valve cover from Bates for $70. Thought about fixing the old cover but I figured it would be better just to do it right and get a decent one.


----------



## Wrenchhead1968 (Feb 7, 2020)

Put a bunch of diesel fuel in the engine and fire it up let it idle for five minutes make sure it's getting oil and diesel fuel to the top of the valve train if it isn't you better shut it off if you show fairly decent oil pressure when you're running a bunch of diesel fuel or all diesel fuel instead of engine oil to purge and clean the engine that means your engines in pretty good health can't create good pressure with bad bearings, plug sump,bad pump,etc... I've been cleaning engines with diesel fuel a long time you won't hurt it just don't go out and put the engine under a load. It could use a good cleaning, if you have some good clean used oil, Or a whole bunch of oil that's clean laying around on the shelf that you don't know what to do with run it on that after the diesel fuel purge job let it run with that in it until it's hot and then let it drain really good and even overnight and start with a fresh filter and fresh motor oil. I wouldn't be doing any of that until I know I got the engine running right. I would patch that valve cover you got was some duct tape slapper on there , Fire that girl up, if she runs good you're ready to do your engine cleaning purge job.... I wouldn't get too excited with getting my new valve cover and gasket on there when you don't even know if it runs right yet you might need to pull the cylinder head off . Do you have a good compression in all of them cylinders like ox 76 asked? Hope it's better than the news I got, my heart is basically junk. Not very good for 51 years old, she don't pump anymore evidently I picked up a virus and it destroyed my heart. They didn't find anything with my cardio or vascular problems other than I was clean as a whistle.


----------



## Wrenchhead1968 (Feb 7, 2020)

I could've sent you a valve cover for little of nothing. I don't think you need a cylinder head but if you end up pulling the head off make sure you get it cracked checked and pressure tested and if it's bad let me know. I can get one to you


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

so you're telling me to get the engine running correctly and then put diesel fuel in where the oil goes? Then let it idle for 5 minutes? Never heard of doing that just double-checking if I read that right. Well at least the rest of you was clean. Sorry to hear about your heart... Is that something they're going to try and fix?


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

So I put the tractor back together and it runs no different. I need to get a compression tester but just haven't had time to get one. I did pull plugs out and it seems pretty darn strong. I know that's nowhere near as good as the tester which will be the weekends task. When I pull wires only two will make the engine run differently... Almost like it's running on 2 cylinders. Sounds like it is. Testing compression is next so I can get some actual numbers to go from. Im not a very good mechanical guy but it's seems like I didn't make any progress... Kinda a let down. I was hoping it would be a little better.


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

So I finally got a compression tester. These are the numbers. Kinda looks like bad rings. If that's the case it's why out of my wheelhouse. Any next steps? Excuse the 5 year old writing... Don't have much feeling in in my hands.


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Those compression numbers will make it run fine. There's something else causing your misfiring problem.

Maybe it's time to pull the intake manifold. Maybe there's mud daubers in there. Nobody knows how this thing was stored. Might have hung with the carb off for a while or something...

I wish I was there in real life - this is hard to do over the webs. Hard for me to think and imagine what might be wrong. And there's always those little sounds and smells that let me know what's going on.

Wrenchead - that sucks about your ticker. Is there anything they can do? Damn the bad luck, huh?


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I'm in Ox's camp, seen a lot of old motors run with much less compression than that.

I would put all new spark plug wires on, if you haven't yet.

Larry


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I have some nice good plugs in the mail. Should be here Monday. I'm hoping maybe I have bad ones. As much as it sucks to do the work that I had to do on the engine at least I know it's better than it was which is always a good thing


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Start and run in in the pitch black of night. Sometimes you see a fireworks show around the plug wires. This might lead you in the right direction.


----------



## Foolster (Jun 9, 2015)

On our farm we have a 464 international gas with the operator controls reversed so you look out over the rear axle where a forklift is mounted. It has the rare mechanical gear reverser section added in front of the transmission. We only use it during harvest. Every year I have to tune it up or it will run rough and backfire like it is going to blow itself apart. I replace everything in the ignition system, plugs, points, condenser, and time it. Every year all the problems go away and it runs smooth for one more season.


----------



## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Yep. Gas tractors might have an advantage in frigid temperatures and parts/rebuild costs but that's about it as far as I can see!


----------



## 560Dennis (Jun 1, 2015)

Coming in on this later so I'm suggesting.

The valve rocker arm wear uneven over time . You have a sixty year old ,engine. It's been my experience that the wear in the rockers will never adjust if the wear is not corrected.( I've seen dirty engines with as much as 1/8 of inch wear) . Wear will either be filled in will suitable filler weld or braze. Or new radius redressed into them . 
The handy tool I recommend for tune up is the vacuum gage , the gage needle action will point to many problems to diagnose. A healthy engine will read a steady needle of 18 to 22 inches of vacuum. Charts for the vacuum gage with point out where to look for issues if the vacuum needle Is low or wildly unstable. 
Another gage is the infra red thermometer pointed at exhaust will give a location to incomplete combustion. 
Could you possibly have a mouse ,wasp nest in air cleaner . 
I gather the firing order , only one correct firing order , should be on block c262

I had number of issues with idle circuit in carburetor being plugged up run rough , only run with choke half. 
Hope this helped,


----------



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Buddy had rebuilt the carb and I bought new better quality plugs and with everything you folks suggested it's running 100% better not perfect but as I run it more and more it seems to be getting better each time. I put cleaner in the oil and gas tank and it looks to be doing its job. Fingers crossed.


----------

