# East Texas Alfalfa



## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Second cutting of alfalfa on the Haby Ranch in east Texas. We are hoping the weather holds. With a short video.


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Sorry having trouble with video upload from my phone


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Great video; works fine on my computer, but almost like texting while driving...

Vincent


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Alfalfa in East Texas! Always heard that after a year or two the alfalfa gets burnt up from the heat thus needing to be replanted. How successful are you able to grow alfalfa in our area?

Couldn't get the video to load on my phone but would love to see some pictures!

I'm located just north of you in Upshur County. Grow mostly coastal and Jiggs bermuda.


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Another customer has had alfalfa for about 10 years or so, he has replanted once in that span. He also irrigates it.


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

How much water does he put down on it every week? What kind of yields can one expect on irrigated alfalfa?

Sorry for all the questions. My knowledge of alfalfa is limited and it's hard to find current information that relates to our particular area.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Vhaby is very knowledgeable when it comes to alfalfa, & alfalfa in East Texas.

I raise alfalfa on some ground and bermudagrass on other soils.

If an idiot like me can raise each, anyone can.


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Our main customers are dairies and they would love to have some locally grown alfalfa show up in their hay traps and we would love to be the ones selling it to them! lol

I did a little reading up on some of Dr. Haby's research on growing alfalfa in counties just 15-20 miles south of me.

Looks like the type of soil and soil ph are the most critical requirements. Our home meadows are mostly sandy loam. I'll have to look at our most recent soil samples but I dont anticipate our soil ph to be too much of an issue seeing as how we have been using poultry litter for 10+ years as our fertilizer.

Is there any particular alfalfa varieties that are best suited for my area?

hay wilson, I have read just about all of your posts pertaining to bermuda and have always been impressed with your knowleadge on growing and harvesting top notch hay!


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Vhaby is your go to guy on alfalfa here. He has been involved on the other patches as well. His variety is a more of a production variety. The other field is more of a grazer. 
As far as irrigation, I believe they try to get two inches of water on it.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

ETXhayman and others on Coastal Plain soils from East Texas to the Atlantic Coast states:

Please read the following from the Texas A&M AgriLife Research & Extension web site. It tells how to go about detemining if your soils are suitable for growing alfalfa on our normally acid soils of the Coastal Plain. I now have my hydraulic soil probe and am gearing up to be available for consulting with producers in this region to help them determine if they have the right soils on which to grow alfalfa and to get more alfalfa growing in East Texas. It can be done without irrigation in most years in this region, and alfalfa is very drought tolerant. I can also help with recommendations for site preparation, liming, fertilization, variety selection, seeding, etc., and would definitely recommend Roundup Ready varieties because of the weed problems we encounter when disking up our pasture/hay meadow soils..

http://overton.tamu.edu/files/2011/04/SelectingCoastalPlainSoilsforAlfalfa.pdf

VHaby

By the way, the video posted by Clower can be viewed on my laptop computer but not on my iphone. How do I alert the webmaster of Haytalk to work on this problem?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

ETXhayman said:


> Alfalfa in East Texas! Always heard that after a year or two the alfalfa gets burnt up from the heat thus needing to be replanted. How successful are you able to grow alfalfa in our area?
> 
> Couldn't get the video to load on my phone but would love to see some pictures!
> 
> I'm located just north of you in Upshur County. Grow mostly coastal and Jiggs bermuda.


There is a reason what you heard about alfalfa getting burned up from the heat... subsoil acidity prevents alfalfa roots from penetrating deep into many Coastal Plain soils. The web site posted earlier explains why. Lack of deep root penetration prevents alfalfa from accessing water during our normal mid to late summer dry period- thus it appears to dry (burn) up.

Clowers video should demonstrate our success with growing alfalfa in East Texas.

VHaby


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

ETXhayman said:


> How much water does he put down on it every week? What kind of yields can one expect on irrigated alfalfa?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. My knowledge of alfalfa is limited and it's hard to find current information that relates to our particular area.


The seedling year (first year following fall seeding) we can expect at least four tons/acre. The following years look for 5 to 6 tons/acre.


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Thank you vhaby.

I got out the soil survey packet for my county and the field that I think would do the best contains Bowie fine sandy loam/Kullit very fine sandy loam. Looks to have a six inch topsoil with red clay beneath that. The red clay seems to be quite dense so I'm not sure how successful the alfalfa would be at penetrating down into it.

According to our soil analysis from last year we have a pH of 6.8 down to about 1 foot. Beneath that I don't know how the soil would test as far as pH. Like I posted earlier we have fertilized with poultry litter for over 10 years so I would think our pH is good down to 4 feet or more. Our Phosphorus and Potassium levels are considered high and Calcium and Magnesium are considered medium.

We have the ability to top dress the alfalfa after each cutting with poultry litter that tested (67-51-65 (lbs/ton)). I know nitrogen obviously wont be an issue but we have the ability to hit it with P/K if need be.

From reading through the link you provided the soils mentioned arent necessarily the best but this particular field seems to have the ideal pH levels, drains water well (no low areas that just hold water in puddles), and can be irrigated.

I appreciate your time and help vhaby.

Travis


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Good luck hayman


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

I would also like to come visit your operation. Are you by Harmony schools?


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Somewhat clowers. About ten miles northwest of Gilmer off of highway 852.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Travis, you said:

"I got out the soil survey packet for my county and the field that I think would do the best contains Bowie fine sandy loam/Kullit very fine sandy loam. Looks to have a six inch topsoil with red clay beneath that. The red clay seems to be quite dense so I'm not sure how successful the alfalfa would be at penetrating down into it."

Six inches of sand underlaid by red clay doesn't resemble Bowie soil. Bowie should have about two feet of sand. Not sure about Kullit profile but can look it up.

If you care to, please send to me the Latitude and Longitude of the potential alfalfa field. I'd like to review the site's soils. You can obtain the L & L by going to Google Earth and locating the field. L & L will show at the bottom of GE. Send L & L in the following foremat:

degrees, minutes, and seconds N and the same for west. Seconds should be to 2 decimal places.

Vincent


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Hmm okay. Could be I was looking at the wrong area when looking at the soil survey. This particular field was in timber at the time of the survey so its difficult to know I am looking at the exact same area.

This is the L&L copied and pasted from Google Earth.

32°47'51.3"N 95°04'58.0"W


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

In the vicinity of the L&L that you provided, the Iuka, Kullit, and Sacul soils contain the descriptor "Aquic" in the soil description. These soils will be excessively wet (not well drained) for alfalfa. The Mantachie soil is in a low area that is subject to flooding as indicated by the term "Fluventic" in the soil description and will not be suitable for alfalfa. Cuthbert and Kirvin soils have potential for alfalfa but contain red clay at a shallow depth in the subsoil that may be excessively acidic for alfalfa root growth and the clay will delay rapid pH change in the subsoil following surface soil lime application. The two most suitable soils are Bowie and Lilbert that have deeper sand depth from the surface downward. These would be more well drained than the other soils. Cuthbert, Kirvin, Bowie, and Lilbert soils would require testing of their subsoil depths to at least 4 ft for pH. If subsoil pH is above 5.5, soluble aluminum content would be sufficiently low to allow adequate rooting and good yields of alfalfa. If these soils can be irrigated to maintain plant-available water in the limed surface zone, alfalfa may successively be grown on them even if the subsoil pH is acidic below pH 5.5.


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## ETXhayman (Jul 19, 2012)

Okay thank you for your help vhaby. I'm going to run it by the boss (my father) and see what he thinks. I will probably try and take some samples all the way down to four feet and see what the pH tests at. After digging around in the dirt I should have a better grasp on the soil makeup as well.


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## pvcman (Jul 18, 2014)

vhaby said:


> The seedling year (first year following fall seeding) we can expect at least four tons/acre. The following years look for 5 to 6 tons/acre.


vhaby,

How many cuttings does that translate to in a season when irrigating?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

To any interested.

Irrigated ground usually needs 6 or so inches of water for each ton of hay

Western Dairies like hay that is at least 180 RFV. They want about 22% to 24% CP, an ADF that is less than 30% and a NDF that is less than 40%

This means harvesting at late bud stage or earlier.

To be able to save enough hay during raking you want more than one ton/A better for 2 tons/A.

Using Supplemental Irrigation that will mean 15" or more of rain and irrigation water.

You may be able to cut the first cuttings starting in late March, or early April. The trick is to manage your hay to be able to bale and get the hay under shelter in 5 days or less,

SO your first cutting may be in the classic 25% bloom stage. This results in the older Dairy standard of 20% CP, 30% ADF, & 40% NDF.

This may result in an average 35 day harvest interval.

Your yield will be higher but the Dairy Premium may not be there.

Maximum yield will be about 75% bloom. Beyond that yield and quality both fall off.

Your soils will result in a more or less put and take fertility program. You may end up top dressing after each cutting, based on the Mineral Analysis you get back with your hay analysis.

I hope you will be planning on a hay analysis from each field and from each cutting, coming out of the field to storage. This will be more for fertility management than feed value.

A hay analysis probably will be $30. A tissue analysis, which I use for my hay analysis, is $22 plus another $11 for chlorine, and another $30 for Molybdenum and Cobalt.

California recommends their growers use the hay analysis for tissue analysis because all their hay is cut before the quarter bloom stage recommended for tissue analysis.

Now in theory we can raise a ton of alfalfa for each 4" of water. The same theory has coastal bermudagrass being raised with 3" of water.

Will your dairies accept your bales size and type. They may want large square bales. At least 3 x 3 x 8 square bales. 
I can assure you round bales will yield less and have a lower feed quality than hay in small square bales.

A consideration also is Here near Temple, TX we have about 2 hours of baling time. That is starting when the humidity is at 70% until the leaf loss to shattering becomes excessive. You with your humidities may have a better window. Still plant your alfalfa in blocks that can be baled between noon and 3 PM. 
Round Baling and large square bales you want to start baling, your fully cured hay, when the humidity is at 65%. This is the humidity down next to the windrow. I have seen the hay still wet with the dew and then humidity at eye level down to 50% RH.

Now bermudagrass is worse about shattering leaves than alfalfa. Thing is bermudagrass hay with half the leaves gone still looks good to most buyers. Alfalfa with half the leaves gone will look like a bundle of sticks.

Good bermudagrass hay and good alfalfa hay both require about the same level of management.

Do not neglect the Dairy Goat Market.

For direct talk try [email protected]

vhaby also can put in touch with me.

It may be interesting if You all/WE have a gathering at Overton this winter to talk about alfalfa for East Texas. That or at a Goldan Corral of someplace.


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