# Hydrant to barn



## glinka

I want to run a hydrant to barn. It would be 140' run. I live in Michigan and wondered if 3' was deep enough for the pipe. Also, it would run under driveway and heard that drives frost deeper into the ground. The last thing is, would it be a bad idea to cement over the 24' the pipe would be in the barn?


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## mlappin

you talking pipe as in steel or plastic?

I'd never bury a water line here less than 4 foot deep, better to go at least 5 under a drive. I think it was back in the winter of '79 but Dad had some water lines that were about 4 1/2 foot deep freeze that winter, me and the little brother got to drag garden hose the rest of the winter, after that all water lines went in at least five foot deep.

I have a friend that uses the frost proof poly pipe, it may freeze but it has never split yet.


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## glinka

I was thinking of plastic pipe. Is the poly pipe for drainage only or supply line? I heard you could put a larger pvc pipe over the supply pipe that goes under the driveway. That would provide an air gap around pipe. The trencher we were going to rent only goes 3'. Would that be deep enough with poly pipe? Is the poly pipe you refer to polyethylene pipe?


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## mlappin

I'm not sure what my friend uses, he does the rotational grazing thing and used a one bottom plow, ran a furrow, placed the pipe in then covered up, drains it the best he can before winter but it still freezes in places as he doesn't blow compressed air thru it and it all follows the terrain of the land which pretty hilly.

You can also get a certain grade of PEX pipe that is also freeze proof.

Of course as well, the more animals drinking off that line the less chance of freezing, although under driveways can get pretty brutal.


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## glinka

I want to use this through the winter.


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## Vol

glinka said:


> I want to use this through the winter.


Check with your local well drillers or builders....someone will know for sure.....I am thinking probably 4 feet for your area unless you live in the UP.....then more.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

6' deep is what everyone puts them in here.Sometimes that isn't deep enough across a driveway.No way would I only go 3' in Mich.And I'm on southern edge of Mn not the north end.last time I looked at a map Mich is just almost as far north as Mn.


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## Uphayman

The last couple of winters have been brutal up here in the UP. 7 foot is minimum. Still had "freeze less " hydrants freeze. Our neighbor, thought he'd do a favor, plowed a lane with a line under it (7' down) . Line froze, finally thawed out mid April. Let run is a common term up here. With this "climate change" , I'm not sure what is the safe depth here anymore.


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## bluefarmer

Oh boy! Never heard of burying water line that deep! I've got some that's 6 inches deep and don't freeze


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## Lostin55

When we installed the water lines for the corrals we buried them to 7 feet. The standard depth for this area is 6' but we decided that we would prefer to only do it once. I rented a smaller sized trackhoe from the rental yard for under $300/day. It was worth every penny.

There is no way that I would just go 3' because of the limitations of a piece of equipment, even if that equipment was free. I would find a larger piece of equipment.


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## deadmoose

Quick google search has avg frost depth of MI @ 3.5 ft. Average.


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## deadmoose

Another quick google search has a line across mn. Says 3.5 feet below,
5 ft above. I am a few miles south of the line. I wouldn't consider burying water less than 6 feet.

So for you 3' probably ok from frost out til freeze up if it doesn't break when it freezes. 6' would be if you want it to work in the winter as well.


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## rjmoses

The local building cod will tell you the frost line depth for your area.

I have a rental house with the plumbing run under the slab for an addition. HATE IT! Had to rent a concrete saw and cut a big slot in it to repair a damaged pipe. EXPENSIVE!

No plumbing under concrete!

Ralph


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## danwi

3feet is not enough 2 winters ago here in southern wisconsin lines were freezing at 5 ft when you didn't have any snow cover and especially when line cross under a driveway. It seems to push the frost down. One thing you may even want to try is put a few inches of pink styrofoam in the trench over the line that goes under a drive, it can't hurt anything. I agree with 6 ft. When it says 3.5 feet is the average frost depth that means one year you have 2 feet of frost and the other 5 feet.


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## DSLinc1017

Absolutely agree with everyone here. 6 feet is now the norm and that's not under any plowed area.


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## danwi

Just reread your post the part that goes in the barn under the concrete I would put inside a 4 inch tile to a point outside the barn then if it needs to be changed hopefully you can just pull it through.


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## rjmoses

danwi said:


> Just reread your post the part that goes in the barn under the concrete I would put inside a 4 inch tile to a point outside the barn then if it needs to be changed hopefully you can just pull it through.


I like this! Great idea!

Then, you could also run gas or electric line down the road if you needed.

Fantastic.

Ralph


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## Dill

We bury as deep as we can around here. Usually that means 4 ft or so before ledge. My father's barn water froze for the first time in 20 years this past winter. And yes frost is much deeper in the driveway because there is no snow to insulate it. We buried that around 4ft after cutting a trench in the ledge with a jackhammer, put on pipe insulation and boards over that.


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## danwi

One other idea if you are just going to install a hydrant,depends on how your soil drains put some gravel or washed stone at the bottom so the hydrant can drain out when shut off, then use some draintile-culvert 15 to 18 inches to bring it up to the surface, like they tell you when installing cattle waterers,we used 2 plastic 55 gal barrels with the ends cut out on top of each other. Then bring your water supply in just close enough to ground level to make a connection, make a couple of sturdy brackets to support the hydrant, then put some pipe on the hydrant to bring it back up and make the connection to water supply. Then just make somekind of insulated styrofoam cover and seal it shut, if the hydrant goes bad it is easy to change. I have heard from some people that some brands of hydrants don't last long, but don't ask me which ones they had trouble with. And by having access to one end of your supply line you could stick something in there if it did freeze and you wanted to thaw it out.


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## glinka

Found trencher that goes down 4'. Everything looks good except getting through the foundation to basement. It's an old 120+ year old farm house. The foundation looks to be about 16' thick stone and mortar. Thanks for all the advice.


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## deadmoose

So are you going to bury line @ 4'?


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## glinka

Yes, would go with 4' deep.


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## swmnhay

glinka said:


> Yes, would go with 4' deep.


You got to be kidding.You only bury a waterline once,hopefully.Do it better then good enough!!It will freeze at 4' sometime it maybe next winter or 5 yrs from now but it will.Then your fun begins!!


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## Yogi

Glinka, one thing about trenchers-If it is rated at 4 feet this does not mean you will get a full clean 4 feet. There will be loose dirt in the bottom of the trench that you will need to clean out to get the full 4 feet. A mini-excavator would be better if you have access to one.

Check with local water districts to see what they bury their lines at. I have been a plumbing contractor for 30 years. Most plumbing codes require that you bury water lines a minimum of 12 inches deeper than avg. local frost depth no matter where you are located.

If your water line passes under a gravel drive or any lane that receives traffic you will want to run the line through a sleeve under the drive to protect the line from settling and pressuring of the line that will occur from traffic driving over the line.

Gravel at the base of the hydrant is a must. Hydrants freezing is almost always caused by water not being able to drain down when you turn the hydrant off.

Do not rely on the elasticity of polyethylene to absorb expansion due to freezing. Recurring freezing of the material will eventually weaken polyethylene and it will eventually fail. One more thing, if you are using compression joints with the poly, be sure to use stainless steel stiffeners on the inside of the pipe at the compression joints.

Good luck!


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## glinka

Decided to delay hydrant work until I can go 5' deep or deeper. Concerned with the fact that it would go under driveway and parking area. Son in law went ahead, rented 4' trencher and put hydrant in his place. He has long run, 120', to the back barn and tees off to another building 100'. He used 3/4" pex that has 250psi rating, what that means as far as not bursting if frozen I don't know. He also has part going under driveway. Hope it works out for him, sure was a lot of work. Thanks again for all the information. Hate to abandon project but don't want to create more problems.


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## Lostin55

It sounds as though the SIL will need about 250 feet of hose for when it freezes. Maybe an air supply to blow the hoses out after each use as well.


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## Thorim

glinka you don't say where in Michigan you are? I grew up in the thumb in Grindstone and had problems with water lines buried at 6' in the winter back in the 70's we dug down a little deeper and laid down a bed of straw underneath and a thick layer of straw above now I know in time that straw will rot down but it worked well for a lot of years......


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## Trillium Farm

glinka said:


> I want to use this through the winter.


It will freeze at that depth, but not split. I wouldn't think of burying anything less than 4' as a supply line, better still 5'


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