# Your Thoughts On A GPS Gidance System



## rjmoses

I am seriously considering getting a GPS guidance system. I have looked at Raven Cruizer II, Trimble EZ-Guide 250 and a couple of others.

I just bought a new (used) sprayer that does not have foam markers, so my main use would be for spraying, but I was thinking of possible other uses like broadcast seeding.

So here's my questions:

Which brand and models GPS have you all been using?

What has been your experience? Usability, accuracy, reliability, ease of use?

How do you use it?

What else do you use it for?

What extra "features" and options do you have?

Anything else that I might consider?

Thanks in advance

Ralph


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## TBrown

The 250 is a super simple basic guidance system. That's what we run. Primarily on the sprayer. We also have easy steer for the swather but no one else likes to use it but me.


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## mlappin

We use a couple of Centerline units for spraying and spreading fertilizer. Simple to use and invaluable once you get used to em. Also bought a Envizio system by Raven(?) and found it to be much nicer with the mapping functions. Looking for a few more components and the Envizio will handle auto steer as well. If I can get the components together we will remove the marker arms from our thirty foot bean planter and just use auto steer.


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## Waterway64

Enjoying this post. I have a simple Outback system for one tractor that I enjoy for spraying and spreading fertilizer. Thats the extent of my experience . It is well worth having.


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## haybaler101

I have all Ag-Leader products. Started with a used EZ-Guide light bar on a new sprayer seven years ago. This was simple light bar, follow the 3 green lights in the middle and you are good to go. I have 60 ft. booms and found that I was 2 to 3 foot off at times trying to follow the foamer trails. I abandon the foamer after one year. Still have this system and use it mostly for tillage work now. Bought a used EZ-Guide plus next to put on sprayer. Same lightbar as EZ-Guide only it has a screen that lets you see where you are in relation to A-B line and was easier to do headlands and contour fields. Still use this one for tillage and fertilzer spreader work. Jumped in neck deep last spring and bought a new Integra for sprayer tractor (which is also planter tractor). Tractor is set up with On-Trac auto steering and terrain compensation. Added Direct Command to sprayer to shut off and turn on booms automatically. Added planter monitor to track and map different hybrids. Added the system to the combine with yield monitor and full mapping capabilities. Going to upgrade to better signal next year and take the markers off the planter and add automatic row clutches to the planter. Got little over 20 grand in this setup so far but the record keeping is awesome, planting 1/2 mile long rows on autosteer allows more time to monitor planter functions, check out Haytalk on the Iphone, or take a nap is great, and the info I am getting back from the mapping is priceless.


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## TBrown

Where's the "like" button when you need it. That's great ^


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## OK Wheat farmer

We just traded windrowers and got it equipped with EZ-steer. We traded an 18' sickle for a 16' razor. We cut between pivot tracks and it takes a certain number of passes to do a span. According to my math, by removing the human factor we should be able to make the same number of passes with the 16' as we have been manual driving the 18'. As for what I have used before? I have used mostly Outback. S1,S2,S3, and STS. The S3 is my favorite (and most expensive). I ran it in mt sprayer with the E-drive. Auto steer seemed silly until I got my first GPS. Only then did I realize how inaccurately I can drive. It's worth the money. Foam markers are obsolete. BTW, we use GPS for everything we can think of now. Spraying, planting, dry fertilizer, I even use it to harrow the alfalfa pre season.


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## DKFarms

I have had an EZ Guide Plus for 3 years and will be buying a Cruizer II to add to the collection this year. Use it for fertilizer and spraying. The Plus has paid for itself just in fertilizer savings. If you can get a good calibrated cart, a plant employee that will load the CORRECT amount of fertilizer, set the spread for 1 foot overlap, and know the EXACT acreage you are fertilizing, it's amazing how I end up with just 50 pounds of fertilizer when I'm done instead of 300 pounds too much or too little. As for spraying, I have not used the foamer for 2 years. Another neat trick I learned is to nudge the AB line left or right a few feet each time so I don't travel over the exact same tracks all the time. This reduces the soil compaction which we all know becomes a problem in hay fields. It's a big expense, granted, but if you keep good honest records and learn how to use the GPS efficiently, it will pay for itself.


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## endrow

We have used our ez guide 250 for spreading ,sprayer , and no-till drill works well easy to use ,all push button ,not touch screen , can be used with ez steer. It is a tool that can do guidance and save jobs to a zip drive and not much more . think of what you may need in the future as some gps units can be adapted to more but again the 250 for the money is a good guidance unit


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## Blue Duck

I have an Outback S2 that I bought primarily for spraying and spreading fertilizer but now I use it for everything. It is not accurate enough to plant with but with no-till sometimes I loose track of where I need to be and I can look at the GPS and stay reasonable close to where I need to be. I have two antennas and cables so I leave one on the sprayer all the time and the other one gets moved between the tractors.

I have several hay fields that are big enough I only want to cut part of it at a time so I set the GPS on straight line guidance at one side of the field and go over to the middle of the field and split the field. Then I cut in a circle and at the end I don't have any piont rows to deal with.


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## mike denison

I sell both trimble and agleader. I like em all. How much money do you want to spend? You can pick up a used ez500 for around $1500 on agtalk classified. 500 can do more than wass. 250 is stuck a wass and a smaller screen but is cheaper. New 750's are $3000 list at wass. the skys the limit depending on what you want to do. Like others said consider what you might want to do in the future when making a purchase. Good luck.


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## rjmoses

mike denison;29893I sell bot said:


> h trimble and agleader. I like em all. How much money do you want to spend? You can pick up a used ez500 for around $1500 on agtalk classified. 500 can do more than wass. 250 is stuck a wass and a smaller screen but is cheaper. New 750's are $3000 list at wass. the skys the limit depending on what you want to do. Like others said consider what you might want to do in the future when making a purchase. Good luck.


Forgive my ignorance, Mike, but what is "wass"?

The features i would like most is coverage and speed. My fields are, for the most part, irregularly shaped and I have to vary my tractor speed frequently because the ground can be pretty rough. I would like to be able to move the unit from one tractor to another pretty easily.

Thanks

Ralph


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## FCF

rjmoses said:


> Forgive my ignorance, Mike, but what is "wass"?
> 
> The features i would like most is coverage and speed. My fields are, for the most part, irregularly shaped and I have to vary my tractor speed frequently because the ground can be pretty rough. I would like to be able to move the unit from one tractor to another pretty easily.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ralph


I think he means WAAS not WASS. If you don't know what WAAS it try this link:
Wide Area Augmentation System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
WAAS is the first step up in percision from standard GPS. It is suppose to get submeter accuracy, not within a couple of inches or less like RTK.

HTH
Dave


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## mike denison

Waas basically is good for things like field work, spraying, spreading anything that is not row crop. If you want row crop you need to upgrade to the omnistar level. Striptill where you need subinch repeatability year to year then rtk is for you. Thats what i ment by sky's the limit on $ you want to spend. A ez500 and ezsteer is a pretty good bang for the buck. I run one and use it between 4 machines. 2 tractors, combine and sprayer on omnistar. Speed i think 18mph is the limit. Ezsteer adds terrain compensation. There are also many different guidance pattern types to fit your fields.


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## haystax

We started with an EZ Guide 500 but never did add the EZ steer. Just used it as a light bar as we intended to add integrated steering to our primary tractor. Bought a new tractor with Auto Steer and it came with a Trimble FmX1000 touch screen.

Been very happy with both units, we transfer the 500 around between tractors and swather and may make the investment this season for auto-steer in one swather.

The FmX is a little too advanced for us as strictly hay growers with no row crop but we use it for spraying and fertilizer application as well as tillage and I would hate to go back. We also added Omnistar HP? (cheaper) correction and that makes the circles a lot more concentric in our sprinkler pivot fields. I had lots of unanswered questions at first as Trimble doesn't really specialize in pivots but most I have figured out on my own now.

I caught an add for the new integrated EZ Pilot system and I may look into that for the swathers and one tractor we often use. To me the EZ Steer was just too bulky for use in our later model tractors.


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## rjmoses

I was reading about terrain compensation on hilly ground. Do you all use it/need it? My ground averages about 15% grade, sometimes more, will I need it?

I have no plans to go to autosteer.

Thanks

Ralph


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## haybaler101

Depends how accurate you want to be and how high youth antenna is off the ground. At 15 deg and ten ft off the ground you will be a couple feet off.


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## mlappin

What haybaler is saying for spreading fertilizer you wont notice being a few feet off on a hillside as you'll be more accurate than you ever could driving without gps. For spraying leafhopper or something a few feet off wont hurt either. For spraying burndown or if you grow RR alfalfa those few feet will definitely leave a streak. Might notice it as well if your broadcasting seed. But again with even a simple lightbar your passes will ne much more accurate. If I set our one tractor up for auto steer this spring some sort of tilt compensation will be required as I plan on losing the marker arms.


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## endrow

Most of our ground is hilly .We use gps guidance without terrain compensation. When you are working a big hill not up and down the hill but back and forth along side the hill the pass to pass accuracy is usually acceptable for most of the hill because the tractor leans in the same manor for most of the passes . If the land does level out at the top or the bottom you may make a pass where the tractor leans 15% and you come back right beside that pass and the tractor is level the operator must compensate . we have learned to do that it has not been a problem . It is easy to move the gps unit from one tractor to another but that is not the case with the terrain compensation device


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## Vol

rjmoses said:


> I am seriously considering getting a GPS guidance system.
> 
> Ralph


Ralph, I read this blog and thought of you; In The Shop | AGWEB.com

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses

Thanks for the article, Mike.

I'm not leery of technology. I jockeyed computer systems for a living for many years. A lot of the software I developed was for commodities trading and firms like ADM, Cargill, Lind-Waldock, to name a few, are still using it. Many of the guys around hear call me to help set up their monitors on planters, drills, etc. because I just seem to know what buttons to push.

But, what catches my interest on the GPS equipment is being able to get the most bang for the buck. As an example, If I wanted to add auto-steer to assist in mowing down the road, would I be able to do it? Would it work? Is anybody doing it? Would it be worthwhile? Or...would I be bettter off just going with a simple unit to start, then replace it down the road.

Ralph


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## endrow

these units all do the same thing and yet some can do much more a when youbuy the unit it does not know your field until you plant/ or work it the first time .Now here is the basic difference with signal and units the path or map on waas is only accurate for a short time the earth turns and your spot in the field aligns to the sat-alight differently... One step upIn signal level and gps units and you can record a path save it with And drive the exact same path 1 or more years later add also yeild and fertility data. $1500 to $2500 will get you started at the first level . To move to the second level if you not wanting to spend 6 to 10 grand .


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## Waterway64

I read some Israeli research several years ago in row crops where they were adjusting wheel width and implement width so compaction was contained to specific rows rather than somewhat randomly. Is it possible to be that specific with gps use in our hay feilds so that we can minimze our comaction to a set set of tracks in the feild?


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## Mike120

Ralph,

I had done extensive research on GPS systems, and even fudged the math to justify the purchase......Then the drought hit and any spare cash went to buying hay. I had pretty much gotten the GPS bug out of my system, until you started this thread. Last weekend I pulled my pasture renovator over one of the mare paddocks and all I could think about was how much nicer the paddock would look if all the cuts were perfectly spaced and exactly straight. Now I'm getting ready to build a wider boom and re-plumb my sprayer with electric valves, just in case. Please don't start adding auto-steer to the conversation, I'm already too left-brained as it is, and I'll have to start figuring out a way to put a TV in my cab so I'll have something to do while the tractor does all the work.

Here's a good site: http://www.aces.edu/anr/precisionag/index.php


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## Vol

Here is a short Farm Journal piece on the three main types of guidance systems out there and what they will do. Ralph, you may be interested in this one. Precision Primer | Farm Journal Magazine

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses

Vol said:


> Here is a short Farm Journal piece on the three main types of guidance systems out there and what they will do. Ralph, you may be interested in this one. Precision Primer | Farm Journal Magazine
> 
> Regards, Mike


Thanks a lot, Mike! This article really helped, especially the chart about implement width.

Ralph


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## rjmoses

Well, I've been reading and studying on this GPS guidance stuff and have pretty much come down to liking the TeeJet Matrix Pro 570/840 units. The thing that catches my attention the most, is the rear view camera ability. It has all the same geegaws as most other units, but can be upgraded to autosteer and sprayer control.

Anybody have any experience with this unit?

Thanks

Ralph


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## mlappin

From experience with other units, get the biggest screen you can.


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## rjmoses

mlappin said:


> From experience with other units, get the biggest screen you can.


Thanks. Makes sense, the 570 is 5.7" and the 840 is 8.4". That was one of the things that caught my attention.

Ralph


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## cornshucker

I am also thinking about getting one just to replace foam markers what would be the best say just for spraying broadcasting fertilizer and maybe on planter and drill. Do not plan on auto steer and mapping just something to replace markers. Due to irregular shaped fields do need contour.


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## rjmoses

I went with the TeeJet because of the remote camera option thinking that I could use it while baling RB's, etc.. It took some getting used to and some of the features, like remembering a location are severely limited.

I think I would go with one of the others, Trimble, Raven, or Ag Leader and skip the camera option. Keep in mind: I don't have any experience with the units--I'm just not completely satisfied with the TeeJet.

Ralph


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## gradyjohn

rjmoses said:


> I went with the TeeJet because of the remote camera option thinking that I could use it while baling RB's, etc.. It took some getting used to and some of the features, like remembering a location are severely limited.
> 
> I think I would go with one of the others, Trimble, Raven, or Ag Leader and skip the camera option. Keep in mind: I don't have any experience with the units--I'm just not completely satisfied with the TeeJet.
> 
> Ralph


First - Ralph no offense intended.

Second - Experience ... They need the KISS method. Not all of us have degrees needed to totally understand the GPS. Although you do need a little common sense ... especially when they send you the wrong way. I am pretty good when it comes to gadgets but most people don't read the material that comes with bought items. So that said the need to be user friendly ... who knows I might have to put my wife in the tractor and she is technology challenged.


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## Mike120

rjmoses said:


> I went with the TeeJet because of the remote camera option thinking that I could use it while baling RB's, etc.. It took some getting used to and some of the features, like remembering a location are severely limited.
> 
> I think I would go with one of the others, Trimble, Raven, or Ag Leader and skip the camera option. Keep in mind: I don't have any experience with the units--I'm just not completely satisfied with the TeeJet.


Ralph,

What don't you like about the TeeJet? Being wintertime, I have too much time to think and I haven't completely gotten the GPS bug out of my system.


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## rjmoses

Mike:

First. One of the things I traded off on for the camera ability was the ability to mark spots in a field. What I was hoping to do, was to be able to mark spots for things like groundhog holes, washouts, etc. that I could then come back to later and fix without having to walk the field. This function is absent in TeeJet but I think its standard in Trimble and Raven

Second. Their documentation was harder than the devil to understand. A lot of things where just plain hard to figure out.

Third. It really is off when going across hills because of tractor tilt, as much as a 1.5'. But, this is within tolerance.

Fourth. It's GPS receiver looses signal pretty easily. The basic antenna just plain didn't work on most of my ground

Like I said, I don't know how this compares to other vendors. This is just my experience with TeeJet.	I guess I was just expecting a lot more from a name brand like TeeJet. I have to wonder if they didn't outsource the development of this unit (it kinda feels like that to me.)

On the pro side, I like camera ability and the possibility of easily upgrading to sprayer segment control. Once I had it set up and figured out for my usage, it works pretty good.

Hope this helps

Ralph


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## askinner

Guys, I am pretty sold on the Trimble EZ-Guide 250, due to it's low initial cost, and expandability (e.g. autosteer, boom section control etc). But a few others I have looked at also come with road maps installed, so you can use it in your vehicle if you want to. 
My main intent though, is for sparaying, and mowing. But I also need to look into if they are uselful for baling, nothing worse than spending all night baling, and ejecting half a bale at the end, only to find half a bale worth of windrow I missed in the morning due to disorentation in the dark! Using for mowing of course reduces streaks and overlap, adding up to $ I'd otherwise be leaving in the field (+ the streaks give my neighbours something to talk about lol!)
Bottom line is horses for courses, there are that many units out there, just up to what you want it to do. No good spending 5k on one that has auto steer if you don't want it.
Hope that helps!
Aaron.


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## askinner

rjmoses said:


> Mike:
> 
> First. One of the things I traded off on for the camera ability was the ability to mark spots in a field. What I was hoping to do, was to be able to mark spots for things like groundhog holes, washouts, etc. that I could then come back to later and fix without having to walk the field. This function is absent in TeeJet but I think its standard in Trimble and Raven
> 
> Second. Their documentation was harder than the devil to understand. A lot of things where just plain hard to figure out.
> 
> Third. It really is off when going across hills because of tractor tilt, as much as a 1.5'. But, this is within tolerance.
> 
> Fourth. It's GPS receiver looses signal pretty easily. The basic antenna just plain didn't work on most of my ground
> 
> Like I said, I don't know how this compares to other vendors. This is just my experience with TeeJet.	I guess I was just expecting a lot more from a name brand like TeeJet. I have to wonder if they didn't outsource the development of this unit (it kinda feels like that to me.)
> 
> On the pro side, I like camera ability and the possibility of easily upgrading to sprayer segment control. Once I had it set up and figured out for my usage, it works pretty good.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Ralph


Ralph, yes the Trimble does let you flag obstacles, I looked into this as I have irrigation hydrants in the ground in the middle of the field that the discbine doesn't like!


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## Lazy J

We have a TeeJet 220 that came wiht our sprayer. I really like using it compared to trying to watch a foam trail, we also use it on our planter to monitor speed, but with a 15' swath it is not accurate enough to plant without the markers.

We bought a second planter this winter to use for soybeans, it has a population monitor and we plan to add a population monitor to our corn planter. Now we need to determine the best way to measure speed, we might simply go with a "hockey puck" GPS since we really only need the speed function.

We have an Ag Leader Versa that we use for our yield monitor, it is coupled to a hockey puck GPS and like th maps we generate with that system.

Jim


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## mlappin

I have the Trimble 750 with auto steer. Going to be setting the sprayer up this spring with at least 7 sections instead of three and have the Trimble control the nozzles. Not such a big deal with a burn down of just glyphosate and 2-4d but not good to be doubling up from overlaps on something like Canopy.

IF finances allow after getting the spray boom setup I wouldn't mind having a second one.


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## johndeerefarmer

I have been using a Centerline 220 for about 5 years. I get from 9-12" of accuracy. I use it for spraying and applying fertilizer. I paid about $1300 and now they are less than $1000. Well worth the money. It does get lost every once in awhile and I have to reboot it.
I also use it to measure fields. I set the swath width for 20' and then drive across the field, perpendicular to the first track that I laid out. At the other side of the field note the number of tracks, multiple that by 20' and you have your length.

My Centerline doesn't have the hill compensation feature but I can live without that. I will be lookinig into auto-steer next


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## blueriver

I too have the simple Outback S2 ... for the initial cost its the best investment for my operation ... I can contour mode and get the acreage of each field. I use it for spraying, seeding, cutting hay ... I have discovered its fairly accurate for things like seeding wheat with the drill. I also like it when I'm hauling manure out of the lagoon ... when the wagons empty the "return here" function is nice.

Mine cost me $750 ... and I'm pleased


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## Guest

I run greenstar auto stear and love it. Everything is just plug and play and can run in any of our deere tractors and the combine. A lot of people call it a luxary... and maybe it is but it will save you a ton of time. It really makes your fields look nice orderaly and clean. And certain things require autosteer like strip tiling. These autosteer screens also have awesome yield monitor capabilities and field maps


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## jturbo10

I just bought a Trimble 250 with AGS-15 antennae for use in mainly spraying with a 40 foot pull type sprayer towed by my JD 4450 with SG cab. I use it oBermuda hay ground for weeds and bugs. I have two questions for people who have this system: (1) Were did you mount the steel plate for the the antennae? (2) Did you just stick it to the cab top or did you build a platform for the mount? (3) Is there any function or application to adjust the guidance for wind? I already had a remote controller setup and hope the new guidance will stop over/under chemical usage and missed strips.


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