# Red angus bull epd. What do you think



## umpire52 (Oct 26, 2011)

A friend of mine dad owns a small 30 momma cow registered red angus herd. I run black cattle with a Char and some red cows mixed in. They are wanting me to try red angus narrowed down to this bull. http://search.redangus.org/animal/id/1566663

I would use the bull on heifers this December and January. Bull will be 2 this September.

I'm no expert on bull epds. So asking for your opinions

This would be my first non black bull in past I've had Brangus and angus bulls

Let me know what you think

Thanks jeff


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I wish I knew more on EPD's. About all I look at are birth weights, weaning weights and milk.

A red bull over the Charolais cows should give you yellow calves, which are high sellers here. The red calves do not seem to do as well in the sale ring here.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Young bull on heifers will cause problems with big calves. Have always used an older bull on heifer for there first calf.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I wouldn't use that bull on 1st calf heifers. His EPDs for calving ease is below average and so is his birth weight EPD. I feel calving ease is the most important thing to look for and the average is 4 so I'd want him above average in that EPD. A lower than average BW EPD would also be a good thing for use on heifers. That is just my opinion. If your heifers are quite large in body and frame you might be ok using him but I wouldn't chance it.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I completely disagree with this statement. Why would a younger bull throw bigger calves vs that same bull when his 5 years or older? He has the same genetics from birth to his death. Here we like to use yearlings up to 3 year olds on our heifer.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Is there anything else you can find out about him? A good heifer bull is a bull that a heifer raises. They will breed their heifers that they want to keep so he will have some good genetics on the dams side. They will breed here to a heifer bull. So good calving ease on the sire's side.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

IHCman said:


> I completely disagree with this statement. Why would a younger bull throw bigger calves vs that same bull when his 5 years or older? He has the same genetics from birth to his death. Here we like to use yearlings up to 3 year olds on our heifer.


You can disagree but it has been proven here from over 100 years of ranching. You will have have more problem using a young bull on heifers. The main thing is the young bull has not shown what birth weight he will produce and the older bull has. We go with a know bull that throws small calves that has been proven by actual births and not some scientific research.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Now I think I understand what you mean. Your questioning the accuracy of the EPDs of a yearling unproven bull vs. say using a high accuracy EPD bull such as an AI calving ease bull. If that it was what you mean I do agree with you that yearling bulls EPDs are not as accurate as a bull that has sired thousands of calves through AI and yes the higher accuracy bull would be a better choice. But in a natural breeding situation it is difficult to use a bull that has sired enough calves to have that high of accuracy on his EPDs. So generally people compensate for this by using a bull that is higher than average in CE and lower in average in BW.

Rajela, If that works for you, certainly keep doing it your way. I don't like pulling calves so I'll keep doing it my way.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Not pulling calves and not losing a good heifer due to large birth weight or a large headed calf is the reason that my family and all the other locals started the old bull for heifers along time ago back when there was just good old been there done that know how. Yes a young bull could work fine and you may never have any problems but we have always believed that we was giving the heifers a better start if we could get the first calf to be a low birth weight with a small head. To help this we would always use a proven bull to sire the first calves.


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