# Farmall M Seized Up Help



## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I am beyond myself right now... I was out brush hogging this morning... everything was going good until I ran out of gas... (I thought I did maybe I did or maybe I didn't) So I went to get gas..... got back put gas in turned over but could not get it started. I waited 10 mins and tried again.... then I got a click sound.... so I stopped.

Fast forward to when my father in law gets home (said tractors owner) he looks over the tractor and determines the engine sized due to lack of oil. I have no idea how bad or the exact situation but he's not happy with me.... he's saying it'll cost $2,000 to have someone repair it because he doesn't have the time to do it himself.

I am lost for words.... Any advice or things we could try? I don't have $2,000... I am trying to fix my baler and now this happens..... I am trying to take a deep breath and a step back... but really... this is discouraging.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Yeap no or low oil will seize one up every time. Hate to hear it.

One thing my wife and son are adamant about is checking the oil in the tractors before each use, especially when doing extended field work. Everyone here is bad about just jumping on one of the loader tractors and feeding the herd without checking the oil though.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

If it's seized due to lack of oil, sorry to say but there's no magic cure other than an overhaul. And I'm not sure I could overhaul a locked up M for $2,000. Everything will be scored, crankshaft, camshaft, rockers, etc. Probably be better off scrapping the tractor or finding an engine out of a scrap tractor to throw in. That's bad news for sure, I'm sorry that happened!

Farming is the best job in the world, but can also be the worst. It definitely has its moments!


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Been there.. done that...(but to a Ford 9n, my grandfather's DOH!)
I busted my hump to get thay tractor fixed and better than it was when he got it! Put a big bore kit in it.. that little 9 would wrestle the MF50 and stay right with it except on jobs that required heft..the 50 was a beastly heavy rig.
Anyways, looks like you just signed up for Farmall engine 101!
Find a service manual and hopefully a friend that know these beasts and have at it! You can't hurt it any more than it is know. Good luck, be safe, and take lots of pics.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Is your father in law sure it's seized? If it died from lack of oil, then it shouldn't have turned over after you added gas. We've had the bendix drive on the ford forklift lock up before, the click you hear would be the solenoid, but nothing happens. Put a bar in the hydraulic pump drive, wiggle the engine then usually the bendix will unlock.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

My old 1841 Ford would slip the roll pin in the starter drive and lock up the engine, definately try and turn it over in both directions.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

How did F-I-L determine that the engine was seized? You would have to run the engine pretty much completely out of oil to lock it up. Put the tractor in 5th gear and try rocking it back and forth once, see if the engine will turn in either direction.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> How did F-I-L determine that the engine was seized? You would have to run the engine pretty much completely out of oil to lock it up. Put the tractor in 5th gear and try rocking it back and forth once, see if the engine will turn in either direction.


I have never known a starter to turn over a locked engine.

Was the clicking sound you heard possibly the starter? If you cranked on it long enough to run the battery down that is possible.

My theory is that if you ran out of gas, some trash probably stopped up the carb or the fuel filter. I would try pulling it off with a truck and see what happened.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

He's saying I was turning it over with no oil... and that locked it up. He said the tractor took 5 quarts of oil.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I was at work when he was looking at it. I'm hearing everything second hand from my mother in law. They pulled it with a truck with no luck. He tried turning it with no luck. She said something about they haven't tried tuning it in reverse/


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

That's a botch I hate that for you.
Your luck sounds like mine if I use something of some one else's what can happen will happen.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tim/South said:


> I have never known a starter to turn over a locked engine.
> Was the clicking sound you heard possibly the starter? If you cranked on it long enough to run the battery down that is possible.
> My theory is that if you ran out of gas, some trash probably stopped up the carb or the fuel filter. I would try pulling it off with a truck and see what happened.


Clearly starter won't turn it over if locked. Maybe it locked as it cooled?

Also might not be locked but the heresay doesn't sound good so far.

....

Unless it's a show tractor or family heirloom, I'd look for a used engine or different tractor before sinking two grand into an M. You could probably find a complete running tractor for a thousand. Not that you have a thousand to work with, but something is going to give, one way or another.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

He's reaching out to a guy who rebuilds antique tractors for his opinion on the situation. If it is seized I'll be pushing for a used engine over a rebuild. I'm on the hook for as much of this as I can pay for... Which will probably be all the money I accumulate from selling hay.

Which means I wont be able to pay my dad for the equipment I'm currently using... This is becoming very surreal. My brain says fold up shop and call it... using this old equipment while still learning how to maintain it is going to cost me to much in (lessons). My heart says don't give up and keep pushing you'll thank yourself later...


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Any of us that has been at this game very long has had their bad days and good days. After a bad one, you got to grab yourself by the seat of the pants and pull yourself back up. Tomorrow is another day, a fresh start and I believe the that God only gives you challenges that you can handle, helping you become a stronger person. You can believe in what YOU want to believe however.

My two cents today.

Larry


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Stick and stay and make it pay.
You are in to deep to stop now.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Talked with a friend of mine who sells Farmall parts, a running M engine will run you about $1,850, so not cheap either way. I'd pull the pan off and pull rod caps to see what the bearings look like.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Saw this on e-bay for 675 dollars plus change. Says it runs good so.. It is located in Silver Lake Indiana you could drive there cheaper then the delivery charge. I lived and worked in that area for several years.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-IH-Farmall-M-Running-Long-Block-Engine-Nice-One-Antique-Tractor-/162544311391?hash=item25d8655c5f:g:5ScAAOSwPh5ZD0H3


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Yeah I saw that one also. I'm trying to convince him if it's seized to get this one... He is acting like he wants to rebuild and spend a lot more money.... I would rather put a used engine in than rebuild... Money and time are the biggest factors.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

We are pulling the pan this weekend to get a better idea of what's going on. I'll be back with more details next week.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Heck I've seen entire running M's for less than 1500 bucks.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Well, ya can't say much about what he want's as it's his tractor... I know it's a hard pill to swallow but put yourself in his shoes and you will one day see his side more better...

You might need to slow your roll a bit this year and regroup some, this is a hard lesson on the wallet but take some advice here, don't let the hay take away from your family, inlaws included, there is plenty of time for hobbies... and your hay is a hobby...

just my thoughts, best of luck to ya...


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I agree with SCtrailrider, it's your FIL's tractor. If it's the original engine he may be wanting to keep it original. Sometimes FIL's have a way with trying to teach a lesson. Some FIL's won't let their SIL's borrow a hammer.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

If you think it's tight at the motor before you go any further take the starter completely out then put the tractor in high gear and rock it , with those tractors I have seen times and I mean many times where the starter gear and ring gear kind of jammed with one another and everything would be locked solid , we often had to loosen up the bolts at the starter put it in high gear and rock it


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Guys I understand it's his tractor. The fact of the matter is he was aware I was using it and what I was doing with it. I was brush hogging his property... It's not like I took it without him knowing and was using it on my property. He's not even mad at me for what happened. I am taking partial responsibility for the problem and I am offering whatever financial help I can.

I am not giving up on this haying season. We still need hay for our horses/goats and I need to sell some to help pay for equipment repairs. If I need to I can use the 200 or find a way to transport my dads tractor over to my house. Even though sometimes it seems like it'd be smarter to quit I'm not a quitter.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

r82230 said:


> Any of us that has been at this game very long has had their bad days and good days. After a bad one, you got to grab yourself by the seat of the pants and pull yourself back up. Tomorrow is another day, a fresh start and I believe the that God only gives you challenges that you can handle, helping you become a stronger person. You can believe in what YOU want to believe however.
> 
> My two cents today.
> 
> Larry


True... VERY true...

Nobody got killed in a tractor rollover or pulled into a PTO and mangled or whatever...

Machines can be fixed...

Much as it pains me to say it, "It's only money"...

Later! OL J R


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Grateful11 said:


> I agree with SCtrailrider, it's your FIL's tractor. If it's the original engine he may be wanting to keep it original. Sometimes FIL's have a way with trying to teach a lesson. Some FIL's won't let their SIL's borrow a hammer.


He's not trying to teach me a lesson. I have no problem taking responsibility for my part in what happened. I have a great relationship with my inlaws.... unlike others we get along great. I've spent a lot of time working with him over the years. I appreciate your concern but it's not an issue.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Good to hear.... I know you have learned a lesson you will keep for life now, I bet you will ALWAYS check the fluids first from now on, lol...


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

So when was the last time someone checked the oil?Or when was the last time it was changed?

If something is going to break it is when you borrow it so everything should be checked over by both parties especially fluid levels.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

The lessons keep on stacking up.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

My farm liability policy covers if something breaks when I borrow it up to $2000 I think.Never have used it and wonder how well they would cover something like this.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> The lessons keep on stacking up.


That will not change anytime soon. We all have learned our lessons at one time or another. The reason that I have a grease gun on every piece of equipment is that if it is handy it will get used more often.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

endrow said:


> If you think it's tight at the motor before you go any further take the starter completely out then put the tractor in high gear and rock it , with those tractors I have seen times and I mean many times where the starter gear and ring gear kind of jammed with one another and everything would be locked solid , we often had to loosen up the bolts at the starter put it in high gear and rock it


Good point, Endrow. We used a bunch of M's back when we milked and still putter with a few (I think dad has 15 scattered in the barns of the farm). Starters will lock tight to ring gears and usually require loosening bolts to free it. My question, how low was the engine oil? A M holds 8 quarts to the top pet cock. I have seenseveral times when we have put 7 quarts in one with weak piston rings. We actually had one with a blade that was used to clean alleys in the freestall barn and when the oil pressure dropped it was time for another 2 gallon of oil. M's have tough old motors and usually knock like crazy long before they lock up. If the tractor cranked after it died it is not seized, the starter is Locked. You can also roll the engine with the fan blade if the belt is tight enough to confirm it is not locked up.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

My father in law said it took 5 quarts until it was full.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

He's out of town attending a wedding. I'll post updates about what we find out. I'll be suggesting we try several of everyone's recommendations. Thanks.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> My father in law said it took 5 quarts until it was full.


Although not good long term for the engine, an M will run on 3 quarts of oil all day. I don't think you are seized up. Your starter is locked or your battery lost connection and the tractor died originally either from a plugged gas line or an electrical issue.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

haybaler101 said:


> Although not good long term for the engine, an M will run on 3 quarts of oil all day. I don't think you are seized up. Your starter is locked or your battery lost connection and the tractor died originally either from a plugged gas line or an electrical issue.


My feelings exactly, Ford 801's will do the same with the starter.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I like what I'm hearing guys


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Just realized I spelled seized wrong lol


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> Although not good long term for the engine, an M will run on 3 quarts of oil all day. I don't think you are seized up. Your starter is locked or your battery lost connection and the tractor died originally either from a plugged gas line or an electrical issue.


 yes that's what I was thinking all along


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> Just realized I spelled seized wrong lol


You can edit the title.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> Just realized I spelled seized wrong lol


Fixed it


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Thanks


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Being down 5 quarts of oil is unexcuseable. Keeping all fluids topped off must be done daily on any piece of equipment but especially so on one 75 years old like an old Farmall m that likely leaks a little oil or burns a little oil if not in tip top shape or burns a lot of oil if well worn. May need to check more than once a day if it consusmes lots of oil.

That all said you may get lucky and simply the stater Bendix locked up to the flywheel like mentioned by others.

My old well worn Farmall h does this once a year. Putting the tractor in gear and rocking can sometimes free it though that rarely works for me. Simply loosen the 2 starter bolts and I can here the Bendix pop back on mine. Sometimes I have to hit the starter button to get it to release with the bolts slightly loose. Retighten bolts and good to go for another year....Proper fix would be to spend the $30 for a new Bendix...will get around to it one of these days.

Newer farmalls than the model h and model m went to 3 bolts to hold the starter into place. This undesired lock up problem was a rather common problem on farmall tractors that only had 2 bolts to hold the starter into proper place. 3 bolts virtually eliminated the issue as it keeps things better aligned with the flywheel and newer Bendix designs helped with the issue too.

Here is hoping you get lucky


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Very odd to seize a tractor than still turned after cooling off. I'd pull that starter.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

My dad's riding mower just did this very thing, the starter locked up and made me think it was the motor, low and behold I turned the motor backwards and the starter drive fell back into place... the starter would be the easiest place to start....


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I believe you guys were correct. A piece of the starter broke off and got stuck in the clutch. A new starter and she'll be running like new! Only a $200 dent!!


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Glad to hear it. That's awesome.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm not sure how you're even dented anything. It's not like you negligently broke the starter.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I agree... But I use the tractor... Wear and tear. I'm not sure if it would have happened regardless. I'll pay for it because it's not my tractor and he doesn't have to let me use it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> I'll pay for it because it's not my tractor and he doesn't have to let me use it.


That is the honorable thing to do Pony. Good for you.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Now we also learned a very good lesson CHEAPLY this time right?? Check the oil!!!


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Yeah... Everytime! We are changing oil in all 3 tractors tomorrow.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

PaMike said:


> Now we also learned a very good lesson CHEAPLY this time right?? Check the oil!!!


Next weeks class, tightening the air filter wingnut!


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

stack em up said:


> Next weeks class, tightening the air filter wingnut!


Sorry Stack, but an M doesn't have an air filter, but the old oil bath air cleaner is probably going to need some serious cleaning! Better get the putty knife and a screw driver.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

haybaler101 said:


> Sorry Stack, but an M doesn't have an air filter, but the old oil bath air cleaner is probably going to need some serious cleaning! Better get the putty knife and a screw driver.


Reminds me when I dug my Case 400 out of the weeds at my great uncles place. I spent lots of time getting it cleaned up and ready to try to start. Mice had literally plugged the standpipe on the oil bath air cleaner. Oil was white as a ghost and smelled absolutely AWFUL. Converted it to paper filter and never looked back. Wish I wouldn't have sold it, used the money to buy my tools for votech school. What a waste.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

She's running!

Something needs grease... Or it's just the way an old hog sounds.


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Yes something needs lubed. That sound would drive me nuts. Since checking oil has not been a past strong suit of anyone operating that equipment: has anyone actually checked the gearbox on the mower for lube recently? (if the mower gearbox leaks at bottom seal and will not hold oil then the options are to replace seal (proper fix) or use a mixture of gear oil and gun grease to make a gummy oil that will not leak out so fast (Hillbilly fix that works) and better than running gear box dry. Alternativelly, John Deere sells a green cornhead grease that works well in gearboxes that leak gear oil but that stuff is not compatible with oil or gun grease so no mixing whatsoever if you switch to that green stuff.

Has anyone used a grease gun on the zerks on the mower? Or grease lubed where the PTO slides with grease?

Also, you said part of the starter actually broke off the ole m. Were you able to retrieve all the pieces that broke off? If a piece of that starter fell down in the clutch, pressure plate area, or even the hydraulic pump coupling area then that could cause some noise and also do some damage if it were to get pinned in all the wrong spots while everything in that cavity is spinning....(there is an inspection plate underneath the tractor that can be easily removed to look up in there and no fluids need to be drained to do this....and you may need to turn the tractor over to view different areas of the pressure plate)


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