# bundle



## Hay_bean (Dec 13, 2009)

I want to know which machine bundle (arcusin,bale band it, bale baron, plegamatic) is more easy to manipulate with a lift fork. If you had one of these machine, how you manipulate it in the field?


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

We use a conventional 3 tine bale spear to handle Bale Baron bundles in the field. Tines slide quite easily between the middle and bottom layers. Then unload off the wagons with a telehandler kitted out with the grapple which can be purchased from the BB manufacturer.


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## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

Mike,

How do you like your bale baron? We have been talking about looking into getting one next summer? What are the goods, bads, and uglys of the machine? We would be pulling it behind a 2008 NH 575 small square baler.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

We used 2 Bale Bandits for years. The machine was a FORD - fix or repair daily! The bundle handled very well with regular pallet forks. You have to be carefull to not pick up dirt with the forks, but otherwise they handle nicely. Stemmy hay handles better, and very soft 2nd cutting grass hay could be harder to mess with. We put forks on teh front end loader and made a set for the 3pt hitch of the tractor so we could handle 2 bundles at a time. At the barn, we handled most of our hay with a skidloader and it worked great. Hate the bandit, loved the package!


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

TBrown said:


> Mike,
> 
> How do you like your bale baron? We have been talking about looking into getting one next summer? What are the goods, bads, and uglys of the machine? We would be pulling it behind a 2008 NH 575 small square baler.


The system works great for us TBrown. 
We ran an Arcusin for four years before getting the Bale Baron in the Spring of 08. Even though the Spanish machine was really well built, easy to use and maintain we wanted to cut out the extra tractor and man required for the seperate operation. Reduced handling of the 21 bale bundle over the 14 was another big plus. Also the Barons are only manufactured about an hour away so we were constantly being given progress updates.
We have certainly not regreted making the switch. This machine is also easy to use and maintain. No real problems to speak of other than in the first year we had issues with bales occassionally falling back in the chamber making for a really untidy bundle. This issue was addressed on all machines in 09 and we have never had it happen since. As is often mentioned the Hesston knotters are about as reliable as you can find. All other hydraulic or electrical parts I am told are commonly available across the North America.
We use a 575 with no wish to change but I believe Barons are currently being pulled behind most common makes and models. 
Tractorwise in 08 we ran our 120 hp Massey with 29 gallon/min hydraulics which was adequate enough to achieve 3500+ (45-50lb) bales in an 8 hour baling day. Out of curiosity this year we rented a JD 7630 with 40gallons/min from a neigbouring snow removal contracter. Although rather large and clumsy for the job that extra oil allowed us to comfortably average another 700 bales per day which in a summer like we have just had makes a big difference.(the drawback being we are having a few local customers bitch about our flake size being too large) 
The bundles are great to work with. We get 420 bales on a 30 ft wagon if we are not travelling any distance and then increase to 504 and straps when further from home. As I mentioned before we use a 3 prong spear in the field and a grapple in the barn. 
Never used a NH bale wagon so can't fairly draw any comparisons there. However I was brought up, 30 years ago, on a dairy farm in England with a flat 8 accumulator and grapples and its not a system personally I would go back to over bundles. Financially it is obviously a big step but for handling reasonable quantities of small squares for me this is the way to go. 
Hope that is of some assistance
Cheers


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## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

thank you very much. We have been talking about looking into getting a bundler of some sort, either bandit or baron. Dad is very leary of the baron because it is so new to the market. Thank you for all the information you gave me. It would be very beneficial if a lot of the replacement parts can be found at our local dealerships. Are the guys helpful over the phone? We will not have any dealers for them locally so we will be fixing everything ourselves. So I need to be able to get answers over the phone when I need them. We too run the 575 so I like the idea of the 3500 bales a day, and that you get along well with the spears since we are already set up to move 3x3 large squares we could switch from big squares to small squares in the field without having to change forks. I think we will have to give the folks a call again after the new year if I can convince dad it will work.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

The Horsts (Bale Baron inventor & manufacturer) are Mennonite folk so we do everything possible not to call on a Sunday. Otherwise either Mark himself or one of his sons has always been available in our experience. 
We are obviously fortunate being so close to source but one potential issue could be that, with machines now going worldwide, they are going to be stretching themselves pretty thin from a backup point of view. I imagine dealers and distributers is something that they are working on at present.


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

I have an older Bale Bandit I bought used that I'm very pleased with. Like Production Acres I had quite a few issues with it at first but after some phone calls to GFC and sitting down and reading the manual I am pretty comfortable trouble shooting problems now. Most problems are fixed in minutes. I've spent very little money on it and the people at GFC have been great to work with and very knowlegable. Alot of electric over hydraulic valves and photo eyes. It takes a fairly modern tractor with 25 gal. per min. flow. I use pallet forks on my skid and homemade squeezer on tractor. The Baron wasn't out when I bought my Bandit but I would like to see one operate. I'm a one man show and wouldn't be putting up small squares without one. There are many updates on the newer Bandits but I guess I'm too cheap to buy. Are you thinking used or new?


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

MikeRF said:


> The Horsts (Bale Baron inventor & manufacturer) are Mennonite folk so we do everything possible not to call on a Sunday. Otherwise either Mark himself or one of his sons has always been available in our experience.
> We are obviously fortunate being so close to source but one potential issue could be that, with machines now going worldwide, they are going to be stretching themselves pretty thin from a backup point of view. I imagine dealers and distributers is something that they are working on at present.


Mike,

Can you make a 50 pound bale and also make a good bundle with your Baron? The lightest bale I can make with my Bandit and still get a good bundle is 60 pounds. Also how durable is your bundle with the twine instead of straps? Thanks


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

If you want to sell the bales in the bundles by the bale, and you like having more bales to sell, the baron requires bales that are (correct me if I'm not correct) around 34 inches, and the bandit requires bales that are around 40 inches.....

Rodney


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

We aim make a 32-34 inch bale weighing around 45 lb which the appears to suit the Baron. Bundles are pretty durable and can take quite bit of abuse except when you get into really soft grassy second cut. That being said I don't remember the last time we broke one.
We did also learn early on that you can't cheap out on your twine for either baler or Baron - 450lb knot strength


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

MikeRF said:


> We aim make a 32-34 inch bale weighing around 45 lb which the appears to suit the Baron. Bundles are pretty durable and can take quite bit of abuse except when you get into really soft grassy second cut. That being said I don't remember the last time we broke one.
> We did also learn early on that you can't cheap out on your twine for either baler or Baron - 450lb knot strength


Mike a 38 inch bale is about the smallest for my Bandit. How much do you figure it costs to wrap each bundle with the Baron? Last I figured on the Bandit was about a $1.30. I wish I could make a 34 inch bale.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

river rat said:


> Mike a 38 inch bale is about the smallest for my Bandit. How much do you figure it costs to wrap each bundle with the Baron? Last I figured on the Bandit was about a $1.30. I wish I could make a 34 inch bale.


To make a reasonable comparison, what costs are you specifically attributing to the bundle other than twine, repair and purchase financing?


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

MikeRF said:


> To make a reasonable comparison, what costs are you specifically attributing to the bundle other than twine, repair and purchase financing?


I'm asking the cost of just wrapping the 21 bale bundle with twine (twine cost). The Bandit uses two 1/2 inch straps.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

River rat, You can drop down to a 35" bale with the addition of a 4" thick block on the top right side of the chamber opposite of the kicker and just above the upper side door. The idea is to center a shorter bale on the straps. This will require removal of some material on the vertical plunger to clear the block. I used a 1.5" wooden block to reach my 38" goal. Others have made shorter. Bundles will become more wobbly as length decreases and this will make high stacks less stable and more movement on wagons and trailers.

Kelly


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

SVFHAY said:


> River rat, You can drop down to a 35" bale with the addition of a 4" thick block on the top right side of the chamber opposite of the kicker and just above the upper side door. The idea is to center a shorter bale on the straps. This will require removal of some material on the vertical plunger to clear the block. I used a 1.5" wooden block to reach my 38" goal. Others have made shorter. Bundles will become more wobbly as length decreases and this will make high stacks less stable and more movement on wagons and trailers.
> 
> Kelly


I understand what you are saying but wouldn't you have trouble with the right hand strap slipping off the shoulder of the bundle on a 35 inch bale? I'm definetly going to try your idea though. Thanks Any more tricks?


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

I can vouch for Kelly's method of making shorter bales, as I have done the same exact thing. My bales are between 35 and 37 inches going in to the bander, and coming out of a 35 year old 336 baler, my bales weigh between 48 and 52 pounds consistantly. I don't have problems with bundles coming apart at all, as the straps stay on real well. If this Kelly is the person I think it is, he knows all the tricks, and his knowledge is priceless.


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## Piedmont Ridge (Dec 31, 2009)

The grapple is definitely worth the investment when dealing with the bundles, especially when stacking them three or four high, regular spears seem to work well for getting them out of the field


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

We ran a 4" block in the top of our bale-bandits as well on some hay we had purchased loose and we wanted to band to facilate easier handling to resell. As long as the bales are tight and around 36" it works good. We had some 32-34" bales that were loose and the bands would slip over the edge of the bales occasionally. If you are selling hay by the bale, the bale bandit package is slightly wrong as it needs a long bale - 40-41". If you are selling by the ton, it works pretty well. We bought some nice western hay in bale bandit bundles several years ago that was 75-80lbs each. By the ton, great! By the bale, sounds expensive. Additionally, the 41" bales stack well on a trailer either direction. The shorter bales - 34-36" get reall flimsy when loaded 2 wide, 2 high on a trailer, and they leave space open on the deck. They load nice from the rear, but they are hard to unload that way unless you have a dock.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

River rat, You may want to consider a block on the surface of the kicker and split the difference with the other one to help center a short bale. The straps are 25" so that leaves 5" for each shoulder on a 35" bale. If the strap slips a shoulder it is usually supported by adjacent bales and can still be handled. I thought your western market expected a heavy bale?

What year machine, what updates, what problems?

Production acres, did you ever handle bundles from the end with squeeze or long forks? I do that a lot and find it a better use of space both on flatbeds and storage. Much of crop now leaves here in vans so often loading out is the first time I use pallet forks or spears. I believe we have a mutual friend in Calvin Galahar, maybe 50 mile south of you?

5126, Thanks for the kind words but you must have me confused with someone else as my wife says my knowledge has Little value.









Kelly


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

kelly,
Yes we know Calvin Gallahar! Talked with him just the other day! 
 Banded bundles work great in vans when the customer has a forklift and a dock - if they plan on hand unloading the hay, you have to turn the top bundle over where they can get the straps with a wire cutter. You loose a lot of hay capacity in those situations.

We used to deliver hay on a dropdeck with a skidloader. the skidloader tore up customers driveways a little too much. Then we switched to a 3 wheel moffet. Works a lot better. But you have to load the trucks from the side and that means the shorter bales just don't work well. Had several 2nd cutting loads of soft spongy hay nearly fall off the trailer on some short bales. The longer bales just stack better.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

here is the moffet we went to.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

river rat said:


> I'm asking the cost of just wrapping the 21 bale bundle with twine (twine cost). The Bandit uses two 1/2 inch straps.


I don't have access to the exact figures at the moment. I am pretty certain we are no more than 35-40 cents to put 4 twines on a bundle but can get a more accurate answer in a few days time.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Production acres, the moffet set up is a sweet deal. I know a sod outfit in SC using theirs to deliver bundles. long forks with a single short spear to stabilize it slid under the ends. I always wondered how they handled crossing a bank or small ditch?

I use 53' drop frame vans. Regular height over the 5th wheel and than drops 18" and flat floor to rear with 17.5 tires, that leaves 126" floor to roof. Dump the air and they get about 32" off the ground and then I have 4 piece ramps for the skid loader. The bundles will fit 3 high flipped on their side from the drop to the rear. this allows 33 per load using customers equipment, 32 if it is a drop trailer and a hand unload (2nd layer on deck flipped on side to allow access to straps) and 27 or 28 if I take the skid loader with one on top of loader arms if it is a longer haul.

I rolled a 48' flat and tractor over with a load of straw last year. The funny part of the story is all 10 wheels on the tractor were on flat pavement and I was stationary at the time. Too embarrassed to tell the whole story to all of you strangers just yet...

Kelly


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

I had always heard the dropdeck vans were murder on the 17" wheels. We have loaded a few of them and the next trip, they had always busted a tire somewhere - they just heat up too much turning so many rpm compared to a 22.5 wheel. We modified this van for using the skidloader and loading from the rear. Cut the back 8' of the floor loose and installed a dovetail, then put 9' ramps on the rear. Worked sweet - made the 53' van have room for 45' of hay with the skidloader on the rear. Could back into a barn in the pouring rain and unload. Sorry for the poor picture, we sold the van several years ago and it is the only pic we had.


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