# haying practices



## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

Can anyone give me advice to how to make my hay practices the most profitable? I grow alfalfa. I have a 5x6 NH round baler ana a 14' JD haybine. I do have acces to a 12 wheel H&S high capacity rake but the only rake i own is an old roll-a-bar and a 4 wheel 3pt rake. I am mainly wondering when is the best time to cut, If and when i should rake, and when to bale. I set my haybine for a 60" windrow so its the same width as the baler.

Also i was considering a 7 wheel pull type one way rake whith a steerable rear wheel to speed up road ditch raking. Anyone had any experience with that?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> I set my haybine for a 60" windrow so its the same width as the baler.


First thing I would do different is make a wider windrow, 7 ft or so. That mandates having a good v rake to roll two on one for your baler. Personal exerience has been that in alfalfa (with proper techniques) a Vermeer R23 will make a better windrow for a 5' wide baler than a 12 wheel rake. I almost always rake the morning of the day I hope to bale.

I started using a 3 pt mount 6 wheel rake for ditches, and after I got used to it I kind of like it for that.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I V rake all my hay.It speeds up the drying.And the baleing.I prefer to bale it the morning after rakeing it with a dew._

_A few guys here use carted or 3 pt wheel rakes for ditches and put seperate hyd on each wing to help raking around obstacles,etc.Or maybe just rake with on side to pull away from road or field.Get it close enough then finish up with last pass with both sides down._


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

jtpfarm said:


> Can anyone give me advice to how to make my hay practices the most profitable? I grow alfalfa. I have a 5x6 NH round baler ana a 14' JD haybine. I do have acces to a 12 wheel H&S high capacity rake but the only rake i own is an old roll-a-bar and a 4 wheel 3pt rake. I am mainly wondering when is the best time to cut, If and when i should rake, and when to bale. I set my haybine for a 60" windrow so its the same width as the baler.
> 
> Also i was considering a 7 wheel pull type one way rake whith a steerable rear wheel to speed up road ditch raking. Anyone had any experience with that?


I do not bale Alfalfa but if memory serves me correctly you should cut in the 10% bloom stage.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a 5x6 NH round baler ana a 14' JD haybine
I have no gripe with your baler, as one RB is about as bad as another. For fully cured hay & with the humidity at 65% side by side baling a square baler and RB the Round Bales tested 1% lower Crude Protein than the square bales. The hay was baling at 17% Moisture. No problem there.
With the humidity down at 55% the RBs were fully 2% lower CP than the square bales, baled side by side.

I am not all that thrilled with a 14' JD haybine. In your climate you Really want the hay to cover 100% of the ground not 6 ft of hay and 8 ft open.
There are some other machines but the NH pull type disk conditioner, you can take the doors off and attach spreader fins to get the hay out to cover at least 80% of the ground. Then if you have good drying conditions and have 6 hours until dark, you hay will be below 47% moisture and respirations is essentially stopped.
It is possible with good, really good drying conditions the hay will be ready to rake the next morning and you can bale the day after that.
The WI Forage Specialist, Dan Undersander, tells us this is what works for your climate. If it is not too late drive over to their Hay Conference.
An alternative is to immediately follow mower with a tedder and spread that hay out.

I do have acces to a 12 wheel H&S high capacity rake but the only rake i own is an old roll-a-bar and a 4 wheel 3pt rake. I am mainly wondering when is the best time to cut 
If you want to move hay a wheel rake will do that. Just keep in mind you are also moving some extra dirt into the windrow.
The Western Dairies want their alfalfa cut in late vegetative or very early bud stage.
The old dairy standard was to cut at 10% maybe 25% bloom for the old 20% CP dairy standard.
The best yield/A will be cutting going into 75% bloom.

_bale it the morning after rakeing it with a dew _
Be careful with this one! You want to rake when the humidity is in the 90% Relative Humidity rang to prevent the loss of leaves.
Here I rake the morning before I expect to bale.
Here if I expect to have more hay than I can bale before the hay becomes too dry to bale, I rake maybe a third of the hay that morning with some dew on the windrow. This rolls that moisture into the windrow and allows me to continue baling an extra hour or so. If your humidity never goes below 55% or 60% this will not be a problem for you.

HERE a number of Custom Baler People rake in front of the baler and start baling about when I have most of my freshly baled hay in the barn.

Just remember, *Your Mileage May Differ!*.


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## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> I have a 5x6 NH round baler ana a 14' JD haybine
> I have no gripe with your baler, as one RB is about as bad as another. For fully cured hay & with the humidity at 65% side by side baling a square baler and RB the Round Bales tested 1% lower Crude Protein than the square bales. The hay was baling at 17% Moisture. No problem there.
> With the humidity down at 55% the RBs were fully 2% lower CP than the square bales, baled side by side.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. The reason i stick to the round baler is because most of my custom baling is done for corn stalk bedding. Most of my customers refuse to make bedding in big squares because of the "slabbing effect"

That being said, my theory always was to make the windrow in the same width as the baler so the hay didnt have to be raked to save leaves. Is it better to spread it out and rake it when its damp? I dont really want to use any type of disc cutter in the alfalfa because if i get a heavy rain with a tall stand it will lodge. I have tried cutting lodged hay with a disc mower and it only works one direction.

I have been cuttin my hay to early tho i guess as i usually cut it as soon as it starts to bloom.

Keep in mind i get paid purely by tonnage and no moisture, protien or feed values are checked.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

so the hay didn't have to be raked to save leaves. Is it better to spread it out and rake it when its damp?
This is the method necessary in the Arid West. You could fit just fine in Montana.

I dont really want to use any type of disc cutter in the alfalfa because if i get a heavy rain with a tall stand it will lodge. I have tried cutting lodged hay with a disc mower and it only works one direction.
That is interesting, that is the problem I had using a sickle mower. With my disk mower conditioner or plain disk mower I can get under the lodged hay better. Not good just better. I think I have accumulated a year or two dead heading to be able to cut against the grain. 
All my hay ground is in a flood plain and when we have flooding the waters push the plants down pointing to the East.
Texas is a perpetual drought with random flooding. I have had some flooding so far this year, and am pleased to see it.

I have been cuttin my hay to early tho i guess as i usually cut it as soon as it starts to bloom.
Cutting at first bloom will result in some good quality hay. A little better than the old 20-30-40 alfalfa ( CP-ADF-NDF = something in the 160 Relative Feed Value range)

Keep in mind i get paid purely by tonnage and no moisture, protien or feed values are checked
My customer base is at best interested in the Protein Levels. We used to be able to get a CP report for $5 but that was 40 years ago. Now HERE I send off samples from each cutting from each field. I get Midwest Labs to do a plant analysis and I multiply the nitrogen percentage times 6.25 for Crude Protein, and I get N, P, K, Mg, Ca, S, Na, Fe, Mn, B, Cu, & Zn for $22. A full feed analysis would cost me $30.
I use this to monitor fertility, rather than soil testing. My soils are calcareous with a 50 CEC and 6% free lime, all of which make soil test difficult.

California is the people who pointed me to using hay analysis to monitor fertility. The alfalfa growers for the Western Dairies cut the alfalfa well before it reaches first bloom. First bloom is when we usually sample for tissue analysis.

We all put up hay for our customers desires. We used to cut a few fields really young for Rabbit Hay.

For best Tonnage consider cutting between three quarter and full bloom. You will have 18% maybe 16% CP but you will have more tonnage.
Cutting at full bloom, HERE, is called Grinding Hay.

Have a Grand & Glorious Season.


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## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> so the hay didn't have to be raked to save leaves. Is it better to spread it out and rake it when its damp?
> This is the method necessary in the Arid West. You could fit just fine in Montana.
> 
> I dont really want to use any type of disc cutter in the alfalfa because if i get a heavy rain with a tall stand it will lodge. I have tried cutting lodged hay with a disc mower and it only works one direction.
> ...


Thanks very much for the info.

What i was getting at with the disc mower is that when cuttin in the direction that the hay is lodged i always left long stems but with the sickel bar the reel will pull it up. As far as my grass hay ( all road ditches) i would never even thinl of using anything but a disc mower.

What are your thoughts on granular fertelizing vs folier feeding on an established stand? Some guys tell me with alfalfas tap root system alot of the nutrients atttach to the top couple inches of soil unless there is ALOT of rain. They claim spraying nutrients on after each cutting is better so the pland absorbs it


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

jtpfarm said:


> I have been cuttin my hay to early tho i guess as i usually cut it as soon as it starts to bloom.
> 
> Keep in mind i get paid purely by tonnage and no moisture, protien or feed values are checked.


If your only market is grinding hay you might as well let it bloom a little more.Say 50% Get more tons.

Perhaps find a market for some dairy hay and get a premium for some hay if you happen to get some prime hay.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tip the discbine forward when driving in the direction the hay is laying. tip it all the way back when driving into the down hay. Your haybine must be practically running the teeth on the reel in the dirt to be able to pick flat hay up and cut it clean. Or you have a creeper gear on the tractor. Best thing I did to combat down hay was to trade the haybine in on a discbine. If you have the discbine tilted all the way down and still are leaving a lot of stems behind no haybine I've ever run would have done any better if as good a job as a discbine.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Forget discussing your equipment, look at cost of production. Thinking about how to make a operation more profitable starts with how to market your hay and getting customers. Equipment costs money and packages your hay for you, it does not make your operation more profitable with out first looking at managment conerns. The path you are on now is the fastest way to go in the red.


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## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

hayray said:


> Forget discussing your equipment, look at cost of production. Thinking about how to make a operation more profitable starts with how to market your hay and getting customers. Equipment costs money and packages your hay for you, it does not make your operation more profitable with out first looking at managment conerns. The path you are on now is the fastest way to go in the red.


What path dou you suggest? The haying is just kind of side income. 95%of my ground is row crop. The haying is done on some odd shaped feilds. The reason i am selling for just what you call "grinding hay" is because i have someone that will come pick it all up and pay the same price for all of it. I dont have to worry about trying to find buyers or have my hay tested and have the test results possibly lower my price. Is that the wrong idea?


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

jtpfarm said:


> What are your thoughts on granular fertelizing vs folier feeding on an established stand? Some guys tell me with alfalfas tap root system alot of the nutrients atttach to the top couple inches of soil unless there is ALOT of rain. They claim spraying nutrients on after each cutting is better so the pland absorbs it


I am also interested in this. Do any of you guys have any real life experience on foliar feeding? All my ground is irrigated, so I have been thinking long and hard about fertigation. I hate driving a tractor on my stands unless I absolutely have to! I spread out some potash the other week on a freshly cut alfalfa stand, 2 weeks later, I can still see where I've been


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hayray said:


> Forget discussing your equipment, look at cost of production. Thinking about how to make a operation more profitable starts with how to market your hay and getting customers. Equipment costs money and packages your hay for you, it does not make your operation more profitable with out first looking at managment conerns. The path you are on now is the fastest way to go in the red.


Boy there's the 64,000 dollar question. One could buy old, unreliable equipment for cheap, like I did a few years back and make repairs or deal with untimely hay cutting, or go completely the other direction and buy new shiney equipment with less breakdowns but more monthly payments.
Which one is the best? I think there's so many different situations that its nearly impossible to figure it out.


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