# What's the best bang for the buck?



## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi

I have a small hay operation and make small square bales. It has gotten harder to find reliable buyers for first cutting. So I pay to have the big square baler come in. It cost me $10.00 a bale to make. Have guy come in and buy all the big squares at $40.00 so I really get $30.00 a bale. Last year sold off 150 big sq 7 foot long = $4500.

If I could have sold the hay off in small SQ it wood look like this. 150 big X 17 small = one big 7 footer. = $7650.

I see $7650 - $4500 = $3150 loss

I have an open building to use. I could store hay until winter months and sell for more. Or could use the hay to feed beef.

The building is 40 X 80. Thought I could feed how many steers or heifers with 150 bales a year?

If the better option is to raise beef. Than what is the best breed to raise?

Thank you in advance.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not a $3150 loss as you haven't figured in the extra labor to make those small bales. Labor for big bales is much lower, grab one big bale there went 17 small ones&#8230;.

Then of course you have to figure in labor again to load all those small squares out&#8230;.

I've loaded many 120 bale loads of small squares myself, and I mean all by myself, throw some down, climb down and stack, throw some down, climb down and stack. Much easier and faster to load 6 round bales.

But&#8230;I also have a market for those rounds that's taken years to build up. Just picked up a doctor down the road, he decided life's to short to be messing with idiot bricks to feed his daughters horses. $85 for a nice green bale, normally 75 but I charged another ten as he's only a little ways down the road so hauled and placed it for him with our loader.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I have buyers for the rest of the field. They come pickup hay wagon and bring back empty, I never handle them. Or they load onto there trailer. Either way it is sold off the field. What is the smartest way to handle the extra hay?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

TORCH said:


> Hi
> 
> I see $7650 - $4500 = $3150 loss
> 
> ...


As Mlappin, says it is not a true 'loss', but is a different cash flow/labor issue that you might want to weigh carefully.

Being I feed some of my hay to beef cows, I know that I don't want to mess with the idiot bricks (especially when it is snowing and/or below freezing) when I feed.

As far as how many critters, there are some other variables that come in to mind for me (feeding year around, pasture available, other feed stuffs available, etc.)

What type (or color), that too is up in the air, similar to what color equipment do you like IMHO. I have a mixture of what I call Heinz 57 (that's the cows) and I use the 7 best bulls in the county.  Really, I have Simmental, Charolaise, Hereford, Holstein, Polled Short-horn, Angus, Maine, cross breeds (I have a rainbow of colors too). Now with that being said, there are some breeds that do better in the heat than others I have been told, but in Wisconsin I don't believe you have heat like they might have in say Texas.

My two cents today,

Larry


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Larry

I tried to research as much as I could. So far I thought the Herefords, would be the breed choice at this time. Good taste and sounds like faster growing easy keepers. Is what I am coming up with. I do have 6 acres of pasture I could put them on. No other food source unless I buy it. The field in question is 85% Alfalfa and 15% mixed grass

You have quit the choice of as you call the Heinz 57. Out of all the different verities what do you think is the best eating.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I use a rough cost figure of 25 cents EVERYTIME I touch a small square--pick it up in the field, stack it on the wagon, drop it off the wagon onto elevator, stack it in the barn, unstack it from the barn, stack it on the trailer, unstack it off the trailer, stack it at the customer's barn---8 handlings per bale= $2/bale.

Therefore, 150 * 17 = 2550 sm sq = $5100 handling cost.

Just thinking.....

Ralph


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## reckelhoff1000 (Jul 15, 2016)

If you are looking at cattle I would suggest you try backgrounding some feeders to use up some of your hay. Find a local farmer that normally sells his calves in the fall say October and try to buy a group. Say between 400 and 500 lbs and keep them for about 3-4 months and sell them at the auction barn and see how it turns out. May have to get some help nailing down a price. Price will differ on weight sex and don't forget to figure shrink when making an offer. It's just risky lose one calf and you won't see any profits. Calf cow is probably even riskier. Not to mention you have a year and a half tied up in them before you see any return. What type depends on your location. Go to the nearest sale barn and see what is being sold. In my area it better be black or black and white or it is getting docked. Hereford to an angus bull might work you would get some hybrid viger out of the calf. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

r82230 said:


> As Mlappin, says it is not a true 'loss', but is a different cash flow/labor issue that you might want to weigh carefully.
> 
> Being I feed some of my hay to beef cows, I know that I don't want to mess with the idiot bricks (especially when it is snowing and/or below freezing) when I feed.
> 
> ...


Exactly, I ground a load of feed today for the walking steaks, if in small bales I would have had to mess with 60 small squares instead of 3 silage round bales.

Running a mix of Angus/Hereford/Shorthorn here. Started out with Angus and those were just plain nuts compared to the dairy holsteins we were used to. So added a Hereford bull to calm em down a bit, that worked well for years then started getting registered short horn bulls, seems to be working well. Just picked ups a cow today from a new processor we are trying, everything vacuum packed but since I've had a lot of people asking about it&#8230;

Anyways, both the owner and the kid that loaded our meat remarked about how nice looking it was coming off the trailer and how well it hung.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Asking what breed is best is like asking what brand of baler is best. You'll get a lot of answers. I think most breeds have their pros and cons.

I have mostly black angus and Dad has red angus. I've got a few baldy cross cows and probably a little black gelbveigh in some as I ran some Balancer bulls for a few years. I think black or red angus would be a good start as they have a lot of great traits. You could always crossbreed them to get the heteroris boost. Red angus is a breed that I feel crosses well with just about any other breed.

As for your question of which one tastes the best or has the best quality for butchering, I'd say any breed if its fed right. Dad used to finish his Holstein steers when he milked and I'll say their steaks are as good as any, only about twice the size though.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

r82230 said:


> As Mlappin, says it is not a true 'loss', but is a different cash flow/labor issue that you might want to weigh carefully.
> 
> Being I feed some of my hay to beef cows, I know that I don't want to mess with the idiot bricks (especially when it is snowing and/or below freezing) when I feed.
> 
> ...


When my Dad first got started with his beef herd he tried many breeds to see what he liked the best. He tried Red angus, charolais, Hereford, Saler, and Gelbveigh. I used to call his cow herd Skittles cuz he had a rainbow of colors. He eventually stuck with Red angus and did use red Gelbveigh balancer bulls for a while but he now has nothing but red cattle. He even culled off the few brockle and white face cows he had just to keep things more uniform.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

IHCman said:


> Asking what breed is best is like asking what brand of baler is best. You'll get a lot of answers. I think most breeds have their pros and cons.I have mostly black angus and Dad has red angus. I've got a few baldy cross cows and probably a little black gelbveigh in some as I ran some Balancer bulls for a few years. I think black or red angus would be a good start as they have a lot of great traits. You could always crossbreed them to get the heteroris boost. Red angus is a breed that I feel crosses well with just about any other breed.As for your question of which one tastes the best or has the best quality for butchering, I'd say any breed if its fed right. Dad used to finish his Holstein steers when he milked and I'll say their steaks are as good as any, only about twice the size though.


Spot on. As for best tasting that varies from one guy to the next. What are you feeding them?

Feed mine like a holstein and they will be nothing but fat. Feed a holstein like my highlanders and there will he nothing but bones. Feed them wht they need and both will produce excellent meat. Different as well.

Making money is a whole different ballgame. Try to sell a fat holstein or higulander without direct marketing them right now and you will tale it in the shorts. If it was black and could pass as "Angus", thhats where the money is highest. Here.

Are you looking to finish beef? What else are you feeding? How are you selling? Better questions to help find what will work best for you.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Best butcher beef is a jersey cross. Crossed with any beef breed. Next would be any animal feed right and not over cooked. Grandma always said any animal putting on weight is good eating. Any animal that lost weight will be tough.

Guys always want to know which breed is best for such and such. I say there is as much difference within the breeds as different breeds. So get cattle that work for your situation.

I know angus are a big deal. Some of the best cattle I fed were angus. But some of the worst cattle I fed were also angus. Just because they are angus does not automatically mean they are excellent cattle, even tho that is what some people think. The same is true for other breeds.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

hog987 said:


> Best butcher beef is a jersey cross. Crossed with any beef breed. Next would be any animal feed right and not over cooked. Grandma always said any animal putting on weight is good eating. Any animal that lost weight will be tough.
> 
> Guys always want to know which breed is best for such and such. I say there is as much difference within the breeds as different breeds. So get cattle that work for your situation.
> 
> I know angus are a big deal. Some of the best cattle I fed were angus. But some of the worst cattle I fed were also angus. Just because they are angus does not automatically mean they are excellent cattle, even tho that is what some people think. The same is true for other breeds.


We are thinking of getting a couple jersey heifers ourselves for just that reason. Came across an article that interested us. We currently have a jersey steer and a jersey beef cross steer.

Had a Holstein steer that we butchered about 9 months old as he was getting a little aggressive. No fat on him at all and the way my wife cooks the meat you would never know it. The burgers are just as juicy.

http://www.agweb.com/article/beef-genetics-make-jersey-bull-calves-10-times-as-profitable-naa-wyatt-bechtel/#


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I had a guy that specifically bought jerseys and he said the meat was "finer grained"....

I have been eating grass fed Holstein beef for 10 years and it tastes fine...even sell it to my neighbor that fattens angus. He doesn't need a whole steer, and he would rather buy a half from me that cheaper than butchering his angus...

It says something when a guy that fattens angus will eat a Holstein...either I am WAY TOO CHEAP on price, or their isn't that much difference in taste...


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

PaMike said:


> It says something when a guy that fattens angus will eat a Holstein...either I am WAY TOO CHEAP on price, or their isn't that much difference in taste...


Properly raised and fed, I would almost bet close to 100% of the people couldn't tell the difference, if you kept their eyes closed, so they couldn't see difference in the size of the cut. Marketing and perception go a long ways. IMHO.

Just seen a sign along the road advertising 'organic' firewood and his price is higher. IDK, what the requirements are to market organic firewood (or grow), but got to give him/her credit for improvising.

Back to our regular scheduled programing.

Larry


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I am not sure I would buy cows right now. I agree with the idea of feeding stockers. If the bottom drops out of the market a person can lose his tail with momma cows. They should at least break even with stockers.

I also agree a Jersey cross is about as good a cut you can stick a fork in. A Hereford is not far behind. Neither one does well as the sale barn here.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Best butcher beef is a jersey cross. Crossed with any beef breed. Next would be any animal feed right and not over cooked. Grandma always said any animal putting on weight is good eating. Any animal that lost weight will be tough.
> 
> Guys always want to know which breed is best for such and such. I say there is as much difference within the breeds as different breeds. So get cattle that work for your situation.
> 
> I know angus are a big deal. Some of the best cattle I fed were angus. But some of the worst cattle I fed were also angus. Just because they are angus does not automatically mean they are excellent cattle, even tho that is what some people think. The same is true for other breeds.


I kinda find that hard to believe from my experience with anything that has anything to do with Jersey. I say this as my friend has his organic grass fed Jersey herd, he was my best man when I got married and vice versa so have eaten there plenty, doesn't matter if it's sloppy joes or taco salad, any meat that comes from a jersey anything is some of the greasiest stuff I've ever eaten, but granted his are pure bred jersey's. The wife cant eat it at all or she'll be hogging the bathroom for a week.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> I am not sure I would buy cows right now. I agree with the idea of feeding stockers. If the bottom drops out of the market a person can lose his tail with momma cows. They should at least break even with stockers.
> 
> I also agree a Jersey cross is about as good a cut you can stick a fork in. A Hereford is not far behind. Neither one does well as the sale barn here.


Gotta make hay when the sun is shining though.... I am hoping to take delivery of a few black hereford heifers next weekend. @ the consignment auction today, everyone showed up. And bid too much. I bought a pallet jack and no more. But I met a guy with a nice lil Hereford herd. And after a visit and a lil discussion, I may have bought some heifers. I seem to have plenty of hay to make it through til summer feeding them. And should have more than enough grass upon a new fencing projects completion.

Who needs vegas when you can farm? Higher stakes here...


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I'd say you will be ok.
If you don't have to pay out the butt
I was at the stock market and cattle are up pretty good.
I bought a nice herford heffier 2 years old 7 months bread 1250.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

At this point no one has suggested I would be better off raising beef. Than selling off the extra hay don't have buyers for.

This is what I have extra for the year. First cutting 80% Alfalfa and 20% grass. Between 100 and 125 big square bales 7 foot long. Available 6 acres of pasture.

I would think this is enough to feed 4 head the hole year and not use the pasture. I would like to raise some beef for myself anyways. I have been going in on a half side of beef a year, for quite some time now. When I order the beef from butcher shop. You never know were or what kind or how old the animal is.

AT this point if I decide to give this a try. I would look into herfords but open to other breeds. Do the herfords do good on just grass? I would have to buy anything extra to feed to finish them off.

The next question is what's the best way to buy 2 - 4 animals?

Or is the word don't try to raise a few head?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

TORCH said:


> The next question is what's the best way to buy 2 - 4 animals?
> 
> Or is the word don't try to raise a few head?


I would look at a private party sale (from a farmer), I just don't like the 'extra' stuff you might get from a livestock sale barn, especially if you are not well versed in the potential diseases / health issues of cattle. I am not saying that you couldn't also get the same from the private party, however.

One down fall of only having 2 - 4 head, they may become like pets, and your family, might not like 'Sam' on the dinner table. At least in my case, I just don't name the one I plan on putting in the freezer. That seems to help keep the misses happy and you know a happy wife can lead to a happy life. 

Larry


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

If you are just looking @ 2-4 head, for yourself and a couple others, I would look into Highland, Beltie, or Lowline steers. Should find cheap. All will do well on marginal hay without grain. They grow slow but if you are not buying grain should give you bang for your buck.


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