# Help me pick a tractor



## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

Looking at buying a used tractor for plowing, big baling 4x4 with accum. and some custom work.
What do you guys think about these:
1 JD 1990 4955 8200 hrs. 200 hp Retirement sale
2 challenger 2011 MT575B 2200 hrs 175 hp dealer sale
3 '98 white 8410 cummins, 5000 hrs 165 hp retirement sale 
4 07 McCormick mtx150 dealer sale, hours unknown

All look very well taken care of.

I want a reliable tractor that is not going to be a money pit.
I'm leaning towards the JD because it's simple, and I could do an in-frame myself when it needs it. 
I also like the white because it has a cummins and from what I have read, a reliable trans.
The challenger is nice but I question why it is for sale, also not sure how reliable the cat electronics are.
I've heard good things about the mtx tractors

What do you guys think?
Thanks


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The McCormick would not have enough HP for a 4x4....

The Deere clearly has the most HP of your choices and has excellent weight to handle a 4x4. The 55 series of Deere was one of the best ever made. It would probably be my choice as the engine should not need a rebuild before 10 -12K hours or longer. The 55 series are very straightforward to work on and since it is a retirement sale it probably has been well maintained. I prefer buying from individuals over dealers when possible.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think the McCormick is out because it's too small. Unknown hours is a problem, too. You'd need more like an MTX 185.
According to tractor data, the Challenger tests out at more like 194 PTO HP!! It weighs probably 23,000lbs with a cab which makes it the 2nd most powerful and heaviest tractor in the group, if I'm reading the database correctly.
When you list the HP ratings, were they from dealer dyno tests? Every time I look at a Challenger, they're testing out much higher than the brochure states. Read here:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/005/5/2/5523-challenger-mt575b.html

However, it's the most high tech, so of course some reliability is given back. CAT is arguably the worlds largest manufacturer of off road Diesel engines, so I don't think parts/service is an issue. Any MF or AGCO dealer can also get Challenger parts. I don't know it's price, but at 2000 hours, it's probably like a new tractor.

I didn't really pay much attention to the White, but it does look like a good tractor. I'd probably consider one for myself because they sell cheaper than green or red and I love Cummins motors. You can turn them up to 200HP. I turned mine up from 188 to over 200HP and there's been no issues so far. If the White saves you a bunch of money, maybe it's worth a shot? But "factory", I don't think it's enough HP.
Of course I don't know your needs/situation anywhere near what you do, but if you like the comfort, maybe take a buddy with you in a buddy seat, like better visibility and a more modern layout with more gadgets, go with the challenger. If you like old school simplicity, probably go with the Deere.

I wish I could restore this old gal. Love it. Want to throw a CX-20 behind it and call it a day

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10887613/john-deere-4760


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

For me the JD has to many hours, but that's me. Does the challenger have a cvt transmission? if so that is helpful for nearly any work. Especially baling. I wouldn't worry about the AGCO electronics on the challenger. As good as any. There could be a bunch of good reasons the challenger is for sale that have nothing to do with the tractor. You didn't put a price for any of these. That would play into my decision.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I think the McCormick is out because it's too small. Todd need more like an MTX 185.
> According to tractor data, the Challenger tests out at more like 194 PTO HP!! It weighs probably 23,000lbs with a cab which makes it the most powerful and heaviest tractor in the group, if I'm reading the database correctly. When you list the HP ratings, were they from dealer dyno tests? Every time I look at a Challenger, they're testing out much higher than the brochure states.
> http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/005/5/2/5523-challenger-mt575b.html
> 
> ...


I didn't realize that the Challenger tractors had Cat engines. I thought they were Sisu just like MF. Maybe they are Sisu now. My MF dealer says that nearly all the MF they put on the dyno are higher then the published pto tests. And by a significant margin.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Teslan said:


> For me the JD has to many hours, but that's me.


My JD 4255 that I bought used in '93 has over 11,400 hrs on original engine,traction & pto clutches. Engine only uses a couple quarts of oil between the oil change intervals. I agree with Mike that JD 55 series tractors are some of the best tractors JD put their name on.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> My JD 4255 that I bought used in '93 has over 11,400 hrs on original engine,traction & pto clutches. Engine only uses a couple quarts of oil between the oil change intervals. I agree with Mike that JD 55 series tractors are some of the best tractors JD put their name on.


That's why price plays a significant part in this guys decision. The JD may be worth it if the price is right. It should be less then that Challenger, but green paint always makes it more. If the Challenger has CVT transmission that would make it more appealing. And like you quoted that many hours I would be leery of. Mostly because we don't put that many hours on a tractor a year so my thoughts of having a lot of hours are different then others.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

For me it would be between the challenger and 4955. I've pulled 6 bottom moldboard as deep as I could go and never ran out of power. Could easily pull seven in clay. And that one had 9400 hours all original except for a new head from cavitation. Super heavy awesome built tractor that you could actually repair yourself. The only problem I see with the challenger is that those b series have a burning reputation. Call any scrap yard and ask for challenger cab parts and they will tell you they only come in burnt. That being said I love my much smaller challenger mt525b with the 32 speed transmission. I just don't park it in my hay shed And make sure the insurance payout is high.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

There's gonna be quite a price spread between those choices. If it were me, I'd get the Challenger just for the fact it's only 5 years old. Don't be afraid of technology in it, it's actually pretty trouble free, regardless why you read.

Don't know about the McCormick, but I do know the White. Great tractor but unfortunately Deere bought the transmission company Funk, so tranny parts are near impossible to obtain now. I've got a MF 8280 in my shop right now with a bad power shift, and can't get parts for it.

I'd have a hard time telling anyone to buy a Deere, but that's my personal preference. I know lots of people love their 55 and 60 series.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Not that it really matters, but Challenger is definitely on my list for a square baler tractor. If I find a pre-tier 4 one with 200HP a front 3pt and PTO, I will probably buy it, if not it will be a MF or a McCormick. I'm priced out of the market when it comes to JD and usually Case-IH, too.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Not that it really matters, but Challenger is definitely on my list for a square baler tractor. If I find one with 200HP a front 3pt and PTO, I will probably buy it, if not it will be a MF. I'm priced out of the market when it comes to JD and usually Case-IH, too.


Get yourself one of those new big Kubotas. Heh. I suspect those cost every bit as much as a new MF or CaseIH.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan said:


> Get yourself one of those new big Kubotas. Heh. I suspect those cost every bit as much as a new MF or CaseIH.


Way too much $$$$$


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## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

Ok thanks for all the input, I really don't want a tractor that you can't get parts for so, so the white is out, also the McCormick for hp reasons.
Yes you are correct the challengers test out much higher than rated.
I'll see if I can swing the cat, or if not try and buy the JD


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I would buy the 4955.....it has the most HP and weight which will be beneficial on a 4x4. Yes the hours might be higher than your other choices but if it was taken well care of I wouldn't be scared of those hours at all.....and that series of tractors are very well liked and has a proven track record.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

If I am not mistaken, the Challenger is really a MF in yellow. At least the balers are. Just my thoughts.

Happy Thanksgiving


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Is the 4955 you're looking at the powershift version? If so that would be my choice.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

The more I think about it I would pick the 4955 if it was super nice. It's nice to have something you don't need to call the dealer to fix because of one bad sensor


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

No contest.....4955 and never look back


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Colby said:


> Is the 4955 you're looking at the powershift version? If so that would be my choice.


I'm fairly confident that 4955 only came with a Powershift trans


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

stack em up said:


> but unfortunately Deere bought the transmission company Funk, so tranny parts are near impossible to obtain now. I've got a MF 8280 in my shop right now with a bad power shift, and can't get parts for it.
> 
> I'd have a hard time telling anyone to buy a Deere, but that's my personal preference. I know lots of people love their 55 and 60 series.


I'm unaware that a 15 speed Powershift trans in a JD 55 series has any connection to Funk. JD 15 speed PS trans are TOUGH


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

YODA said:


> If I am not mistaken, the Challenger is really a MF in yellow. At least the balers are. Just my thoughts.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving


Both the MF and Challenger 100+ hp tractors are built in Jackson,Mn.I think begining in 2010.They have a few small differences now besides color.But prior to that there was Cat engines in the Challengers and Sissu in the MF

I'd buy the Challenger if its discounted because its yellow.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

I would choose the 4955. Hard to beat a 55 series deere and I assume you will save some money verses the challenger.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I would buy the Challenger. That many hrs on a 4955 would scare me a little. Now if i knew the history on the JD i might change my mind. Was it used as a tillage tractor or high hp PTO work? One thing i do know, don't put much into the " retirement sale" aspect. Might just mean he tried to make do for another few years and is badly in need of an overhaul. If you seen my dads equipment you would understand....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> I'm unaware that a 15 speed Powershift trans in a JD 55 series has any connection to Funk. JD 15 speed PS trans are TOUGH


i think he meant the White has a Funk transmission that is hard to find parts for.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Teslan

Thanks for clarifying my poor reading comprehension..

Jim


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## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

Hey guys, Thanks for all the info, I want to throw one more out there.

'98 JD 8300 with about 5k hours.

From what I have read the 8000 series are loved by many.

Looks like about right HP and weight for a big baler. My fields are on pretty level ground.

Thanks


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I like the 8300 idea. High hours 4955/60 would worry me a little, I've heard they can get pretty expensive to own, depending on how they've been used. The Challenger would be appealing if the dealer support was good. The White is an orphan, and as others said the McCormick is too small for a 4x4. I'm a red guy but I have a pretty good respect for the 8000/10s, and the 7000/10 Deeres.


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## northern Ohio baler (Sep 28, 2014)

I'd go Challenger if it has a CVT transmission. Then you'd have a fendt transmission and rear end.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Is there a basic time frame on the hour meter when a CVT transmission needs rebuilding? 
I know they need proper maintenance, but do they generally last longer or shorter than a powershift?


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## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

the challenger has a PS


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Wyo_1 said:


> the challenger has a PS


Ummmm, all B series Challengers are CVT....


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Is there a basic time frame on the hour meter when a CVT transmission needs rebuilding?
> I know they need proper maintenance, but do they generally last longer or shorter than a powershift?


In the 12 years since AGCO put the CVT in the AGCO tractors, I've only heard of one go out. No regular maintenance other than filters and oil. Biggest thing to remember is to put it in Tortoise for actual work, and Hare for road travel. When it's in fast mode, it bypasses some oil past the cooler, which is fine for road. Just lends itself to problems when heavy pulling.... And actually, in slow speed, the CVT will still do 19 at top speed with 18.4R46

If all goes according to plan, this will be my new planter tractor for 2017.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/9103671/2004-agco-dt220a


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Looks extra good.....you should be able to bring the thunder with that bad boy. I like it and that is very good to know about the CVT's in AGCO. Good luck with it Paul.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

stack em up said:


> In the 12 years since AGCO put the CVT in the AGCO tractors, I've only heard of one go out. No regular maintenance other than filters and oil. Biggest thing to remember is to put it in Tortoise for actual work, and Hare for road travel. When it's in fast mode, it bypasses some oil past the cooler, which is fine for road. Just lends itself to problems when heavy pulling.... And actually, in slow speed, the CVT will still do 19 at top speed with 18.4R46
> 
> If all goes according to plan, this will be my new planter tractor for 2017.
> 
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/9103671/2004-agco-dt220a


Does that hold true for Challenger and Massey, too? Same transmission as AGCO?

I thought someone once said everyone dumps CVT tractors at 8,000 hrs because they are prone to failure about then?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

The deere IVT is a very good tranny, i suppose the CVT is as well......the trick is manufacturing them cost effectively. Not sure about the CVT but the IVT has to be bought as a rebuild from Mother Deere as no one can rebuild them.......


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> The deere IVT is a very good tranny, i suppose the CVT is as well......the trick is manufacturing them cost effectively. Not sure about the CVT but the IVT has to be bought as a rebuild from Mother Deere as no one can rebuild them.......


I think I remember someone saying one of the tractor importers (Lu-Lin Farm maybe?) had bought a bad one on purpose to deconstruct and had figured out how to rebuild one.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> I think I remember someone saying one of the tractor importers (Lu-Lin Farm maybe?) had bought a bad one on purpose to deconstruct and had figured out how to rebuild one.


I don't doubt that at all.....everyone seems to reverse engineer nowadays. Deere gave me 6k for mine as core, probably woulda paid more if I told them some Chinese/Japanese named Lu or Lin wanted to buy it


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Does that hold true for Challenger and Massey, too? Same transmission as AGCO?
> 
> I thought someone once said everyone dumps CVT tractors at 8,000 hrs because they are prone to failure about then?


Yes, it's all the same Fendt transmission. And as far as the 8000 hour thing, sounds like someone was blowing ssmoke up your ass. When I was at the dealership, we had a customer with 3 DT240a's with over 13,000 hours each. Custom manure pumper pulling 6500 gallon honey wagons.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> The deere IVT is a very good tranny, i suppose the CVT is as well......the trick is manufacturing them cost effectively. Not sure about the CVT but the IVT has to be bought as a rebuild from Mother Deere as no one can rebuild them.......


My father in law bought a Deere 7810 with the IVT from JB Tractors of Minnesota, Dutch tractor importers They told him that it was possible to rebuild the IVT via an independent rebuilder. After all, the heart of an IVT/CVT is a hydro, and rebuilding hydros is not rocket science anymore.


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## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

stack em up said:


> Ummmm, all B series Challengers are CVT....


Yes you are correct the add I was reading says it a PS but after looking closer it is a CVT
I was not that familiar with the challengers
Thanks for pointing that out


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

B series challengers had the option of a 32 speed auto power IV or CVT. I have a 32 speed. Both are considered bullet proof I read.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

sethd11 said:


> B series challengers had the option of a 32 speed auto power IV or CVT. I have a 32 speed. Both are considered bullet proof I read.


The MF calls it a Dyna 4 and it comes at a considerable lower cost then CVT for used or new.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So what's in this little AGCO? It's called an auto 4. Is it the equivalent of the Massey dyna 4?

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10835313/2008-agco-lt75a


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

sethd11 said:


> B series challengers had the option of a 32 speed auto power IV or CVT. I have a 32 speed. Both are considered bullet proof I read.


Forgot about the Dyna 4. I was almost positive the Challenger was only available in CVT, thought Dyna 4 was only an AGCO and Massey thing. We sold a couple AGCO and Masseys with the Dyna 4 and had issues with Auto 5 controller (makes sense doesn't it? Auto 5 controller,in an Auto 4 machine?) It's a very expensive controller to replace, something like $6,000? They have since changed vendors for the controller, so maybe price and quality has improved.

Now that I think of it Seth, do you have a large frame Challenger or the small frame? Small frame were available in both, but large frame were only in CVT.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So what's in this little AGCO? It's called an auto 4. Is it the equivalent of the Massey dyna 4?
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10835313/2008-agco-lt75a


I've got its older brother the LT75 with 16 speed mechanical shuttle. No issues with anything other than I've replace a controller for the 3 point and the mechanical shuttle shifter lever. (That was my fault, I pulled myself up by it when I had a broken femur)


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

stack em up said:


> Forgot about the Dyna 4. I was almost positive the Challenger was only available in CVT, thought Dyna 4 was only an AGCO and Massey thing. We sold a couple AGCO and Masseys with the Dyna 4 and had issues with Auto 5 controller (makes sense doesn't it? Auto 5 controller,in an Auto 4 machine?) It's a very expensive controller to replace, something like $6,000? They have since changed vendors for the controller, so maybe price and quality has improved.


Gets confusing,LOL.My MF 8150 has a Dynashift.I presume the Dyna 4 is different then the Dynashift which is also a 4sp powrshift.Never had any issues and mechanics at Hull say its bullet proof.

My 8450 has Dynastep which is the CVT with electronic gears so to speak.21 steps to make it a full power shift basically on both the high and low side.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

stack em up said:


> I've got its older brother the LT75 with 16 speed mechanical shuttle. No issues with anything other than I've replace a controller for the 3 point and the mechanical shuttle shifter lever. (That was my fault, I pulled myself up by it when I had a broken femur)


So Dyna 4= BAD transmission?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So Dyna 4= BAD transmission?


 Not in the least, very trouble free.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Our 6290 has a Dynashift or I guess Dynashuttle and it hasn't had any problems in 15 years. I was told by our MF salesman that the next models for a few years had some troubles, but I don't know what that was called. Or if he was just talking for some reason.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

stack em up said:


> Not in the least, very trouble free.


But a Dyna 4 is not a CVT, right?

Isnt it a 4 speed powershift? Or something else?

IOW: how the heck does a dyna 4 work?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

It has a 4 speed gear transmission, either a 2 or 4 speed range, and then a 2 speed SpeedShift.


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## Wyo_1 (Nov 8, 2016)

Finally found a tractor, Picked up a JD 4555 with 8000 hours on it, got it for about 30k with shipping.

Looks like its in good shape, havn't got it yet,

What do you guys think of these tractors? How will it do on a 4x4 with an accumulator?

Thanks


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Looks good I wanted something like that years ago when we still did corn and beans but ended up with a CaseIH 2294 . Looks like it got taller rubber on it that should be good for haying . Even if you have to spend a little that's a nice tractor . Run it if it's not what you like I don't think you can loose much on a trade in.


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