# Making my own hay, not on my own land



## Hayjosh

I'll keep this short. I have a coworker, good friend of mine too, just lives a mile or two down the road from me. She just bought her house, has an acre of grass field she says I can bale. I just have a little operation, 6 acres of my own and I put up another 7 acres with my neighbor as well for his cows.

My coworker's field has never had any love, and yield would be very low this first cutting. She currently pays somebody just to come mow it as she doesn't want the grass tall. Eventually she'd like to run some cows on it but doesn't know when that will be. I will fertilize and spray her field to help my yields, and it will be mowed so she won't be paying anybody to do that. So in essence, with me baling up her acre, I'm saving her the costs of having it mowed and I'll turn her ground into some very productive land by doing some of my own investment into it.

With this in mind, am I already doing enough for her? Or on top of that, should I offer her something per bale? I won't be pulling a lot of hay off this field this year, it needs a lot of work. I don't want to be unfair to her, but at the same time, I also do feel like she already is getting benefit from it too as she'll save the expense of paying somebody to mow it and she'll have a really nice grass field when she decides to use it for herself. Which I'll happily use in the meantime, I just love making hay and am trying to grow a small operation. But mostly, I just love making hay.


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## somedevildawg

Hay josh, I want to be clear.....this is one acre?


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## Hayjosh

Yes just a single acre down the street.


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## glasswrongsize

If I were to spend the money to make the soil healthy and the forage weed-free, I would want to know how long I was going to be allowed to hay it. I would want to know when she plans in bovine implementation; she may not know for sure, but if it is in a year or so.....or after first cutting, it would be a waste (on your part) love.

If she is a decent person, she would not intend to gouge you out of the fertilizer; on the other hand, she may not realize that you don't recoup all the benefits of the cost of fertilizer in the first year.

After that, I generally give $1 per bale for smalls and $15 for 5x6

....Unless she's good looking :wub: , then I would cut the price to $.75 and $10 (pretty girls have been given breaks all their lives and I'm getting reparations for my ugliness -_- )

73, Mark


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## stack em up

To me, 1 acre wouldn't be worth it. And that amount of ground will support 1 cow/calf pair for about a month, you do realize that, right?


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## somedevildawg

Unless it's very hard to gain ground up in Michigan, I wouldn't be able to "pay" anything for one acre of ground......I would think "scratch mine and I'll scratch yours" type attitude.....course, like mark said; if she's good looking I might just be satisfied with doing the scratching and let her enjoy the "benefits"......

Good luck


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## stack em up

somedevildawg said:


> Unless it's very hard to gain ground up in Michigan, I wouldn't be able to "pay" anything for one acre of ground......I would think "scratch mine and I'll scratch yours" type attitude.....course, like mark said; if she's good looking I might just be satisfied with doing the scratching and let her enjoy the "benefits"......
> Good luck


Don't matter how good looking she is, cutting 1 acre isn't enough time to get a real good look anyway!


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## JD3430

Horny hay talkers!!!! 
You guys oughta be ashamed.....


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## glasswrongsize

Hayjosh said:


> Yes just a single acre down the street.


I am a SMALL time hay person. When I started out with my own junk equip in 2012, I acquired 3 or 4 fields that were 1 acre or less for the cost of baling (the owner got it mowed and I got all the hay), but I did not fertilize or spray. I was sort of like a kid with a push mower...I would be doing one patch and before I was done, someone would stop and WANT me to do theirs for them. Since then, I am up to @70 acres in 9 different fields (7 of them within a mile of my place).
...Still pretty small time, but I'm so inefficient (maybe too much time leering :wub: ???) that it takes as much time as 3-400 acres for some of the other guys.

73, Mark


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## Swv.farmer

I would think that with you doing the amendments to the land that you are doing more than tor party she should be happy to be getting it done and not having to pay to have it done she is a winner.


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## RockmartGA

Hayjosh said:


> should I offer her something per bale? I won't be pulling a lot of hay off this field this year, it needs a lot of work.


Short answer, no. You'll probably only break even on the deal if you fertilize and spray and like you said, she is not having to pay to have it mowed.


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## RockyHill

RockmartGA said:


> Short answer, no. You'll probably only break even on the deal if you fertilize and spray and like you said, she is not having to pay to have it mowed.


Ditto.

And a bit of extra advice since she is a good friend and good friends are too valuable to lose, discuss your plans to fertilize/spray/harvest etc. and for what time frame and put it in writing for both of your benefit. You will be putting the $$$s and the work and she will be saving mowing expense. What makes it workable is that you "just love making hay".

Shelia


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Horny hay talkers!!!!
> You guys oughta be ashamed.....


Only people with standards and self worth have shame.... I sold that stuff long ago....


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## 8350HiTech

Do you have kids? A wife? Girlfriend? Cherished pet? Eight seasons of Baywatch on DVD? The time spent to hay an acre individually is going to make it a losing proposition if you value that time at all. Not only would I not pay your co-worker for this opportunity, I wouldn't do it for free. If the paid mowing gig was available to you, I'd grab that and cozy up in front of the tv (with the woman or Baywatch, your call) and find some hay on Craigslist if you need it.

(I genuinely don't like being that negative but every now and then it comes out)


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## Hayjosh

So here's the deal. Several years ago I bought a really nice NH 311 baler in superb condition from a larger hay producer in my area, for $3000. I got a little Oliver 550 tractor with a loader in really great condition for $6k (I use it for a lot of things around my 11 acres besides just hay). I got an old JD 896A rake that my neighbor gave me for free. He had a wheel come off when he was towing it down the road, didn't have something put together right. It had a newer paint job, he put a new main drive sprocket on it and all new tines. It was 'broke' and he didn't want to mess with it so for $100 in parts I completely fixed it. And then he had a little running gear that he didn't want so he gave that to me...for free as well, so I'm putting a deck on that . My second hay wagon I picked up for $650 and is an 8x20. I just hire my mowing out. And I have really incredible neighbors who like to help out and we have a good time doing it. So for next to nothing, I fell into all of this decent equipment that even looks nice to boot.

I've got more people wanting my hay than what I can sell, so much like Mark, I'd like to slowly expand my little gentleman farmer empire, acre by acre. This is just down the road so it wouldn't be a jog to take the tractor, baler, and a small wagon down to go pick it up. The other side to that is the worst thing my equipment can do is sit. Oh, and did I mention I really love this? The smells, the sounds, the fellowship with good people, and the cold beverage at the end. It's one of the highlights of my summers and I wish it happened more than just twice a year. I probably couldn't justify this if it was based strictly on dollars.

And then there's the other part...my grandpa has bad dementia and making hay is the only way I can communicate with him now. When I visit him in the nursing home it's just a blank stare like nobody's home. That's when I take out my phone and show him pictures of my equipment and he fixates on it. If I ask him a question I can even get a head nod out of him. But I can only get a response if I'm showing him farm equipment. He was an Iowa farmer all his life, it's all he ever did and is all he still wants to do. The first tractor I drove was his 4020 he taught me on. As a kid I used to watch him pulling his JD round baler with his 4440 and I wanted to be just like him when I grew up. So this is the best I can do, even if it's just by one acre at a time.


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## somedevildawg

Idk tech, I might draw the line on the 8 seasons of baywatch, unless that was her favorite show.....then I'd be like ...."yea, I love me some Baywatch", and the hayin would come to a halt......


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## somedevildawg

For those reasons you mentioned, purty or not.....bale it...


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## Hayjosh

8350HiTech said:


> Do you have kids? A wife? Girlfriend? Cherished pet? Eight seasons of Baywatch on DVD? The time spent to hay an acre individually is going to make it a losing proposition if you value that time at all. Not only would I not pay your co-worker for this opportunity, I wouldn't do it for free. If the paid mowing gig was available to you, I'd grab that and cozy up in front of the tv (with the woman or Baywatch, your call) and find some hay on Craigslist if you need it.
> 
> (I genuinely don't like being that negative but every now and then it comes out)


It's just me and the wife, our dog, 3 cats, 4 chickens, and 3 horses. Fur babies. Nothing is more horrible to me than sitting inside, watching tv. I HAVE to be outside working on something. In the winter I go stir crazy. For me, haying is as much of a hobby as anything. (But we do really need to work on your choice of programming...maybe try Hell on Wheels).

But I do appreciate all the responses and different perspectives.


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## 8350HiTech

If I had picked a good show, it would have ruined the point I was making!


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## stack em up

Hayjosh said:


> It's just me and the wife, our dog, 3 cats, 4 chickens, and 3 horses. Fur babies. Nothing is more horrible to me than sitting inside, watching tv. I HAVE to be outside working on something. In the winter I go stir crazy. For me, haying is as much of a hobby as anything. (But we do really need to work on your choice of programming...maybe try Hell on Wheels).
> 
> But I do appreciate all the responses and different perspectives.


Hell on Wheels is one badass show! And back in my teenage days, Yasmine Bleeth on Baywatch was my dream girl....


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## PaMike

Yeah, but with Bay Watch comes Pamela Anderson. One look at her and my mind flashes to Kid Rock,Tommy Lee, Hep C...

I gotta go take a shower now, I feel dirty...


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## Hayjosh

stack em up said:


> Hell on Wheels is one badass show! And back in my teenage days, Yasmine Bleeth on Baywatch was my dream girl....


 AMC has been killing it with their line up. I love Mad Men, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Hell on Wheels, of course I watch all these on Netflix.


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## somedevildawg

Ifn yous a TV watcher, ya gotta love Netflix ........even if ya ain't a TV watcher there's a lot to like about Netflix


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## JD3430

You have time to watch TV??


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## Lostin55

You had me going.....right up until you used the phrase "fur babies". Why did you have to say that?
I vote bale it. You may well lose money but you could spend more in a bar.


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> You have time to watch TV??


Gotta make time. It's a great way to unwind. I either read an assortment of periodicals, or watch a little boob tube. Progressive Forage Grower, Hay and Forage Grower, No-Till Farmer, Working Ranch, and Feedlot are my main reading fixes.

So yeah, I read a lot, but still find time to watch a little brain rot.


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## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> You have time to watch TV??


In the winter, sure. That's when all my tv watching happens for the year.


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## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> You have time to watch TV??


I don't have time and I don't watch much of the boob tube....but I do have every episode of mickeys clubhouse, paw patrol (no job too big no pup too small), and Dora the explorer.......


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## JD3430

somedevildawg said:


> I don't have time and I don't watch much of the boob tube....but I do have every episode of mickeys clubhouse, paw patrol (no job too big no pup too small), and Dora the explorer.......


Tsk, tsk.....Doesn't everyone???


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## somedevildawg

If theys got grandchillen they certainly do....if they know what's good for them.....these younguns will have a meltdown if they ain't available....... followed soon after by my meltdown


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## stack em up

My mother in law thinks it's horrible that little guy and I watch Hell on Wheels and the like. Wife told her it's better than him being with his dad and uncles for an hour!

And before I got married, I helped babysit my niece a lot. I watched every episode of Clifford the big red dog, SpongeBob SquarePants, and Blues Clues. Ooohhhhhhh, who lives in a pineapple under the sea???


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## somedevildawg

I know who lives there......I have made a many "crabbypatties" too!


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## Tater Salad

Hayjosh said:


> So here's the deal. Several years ago I bought a really nice NH 311 baler in superb condition from a larger hay producer in my area, for $3000. I got a little Oliver 550 tractor with a loader in really great condition for $6k (I use it for a lot of things around my 11 acres besides just hay). I got an old JD 896A rake that my neighbor gave me for free. He had a wheel come off when he was towing it down the road, didn't have something put together right. It had a newer paint job, he put a new main drive sprocket on it and all new tines. It was 'broke' and he didn't want to mess with it so for $100 in parts I completely fixed it. And then he had a little running gear that he didn't want so he gave that to me...for free as well, so I'm putting a deck on that . My second hay wagon I picked up for $650 and is an 8x20. I just hire my mowing out. And I have really incredible neighbors who like to help out and we have a good time doing it. So for next to nothing, I fell into all of this decent equipment that even looks nice to boot.
> 
> I've got more people wanting my hay than what I can sell, so much like Mark, I'd like to slowly expand my little gentleman farmer empire, acre by acre. This is just down the road so it wouldn't be a jog to take the tractor, baler, and a small wagon down to go pick it up. The other side to that is the worst thing my equipment can do is sit. Oh, and did I mention I really love this? The smells, the sounds, the fellowship with good people, and the cold beverage at the end. It's one of the highlights of my summers and I wish it happened more than just twice a year. I probably couldn't justify this if it was based strictly on dollars.
> 
> And then there's the other part...my grandpa has bad dementia and making hay is the only way I can communicate with him now. When I visit him in the nursing home it's just a blank stare like nobody's home. That's when I take out my phone and show him pictures of my equipment and he fixates on it. If I ask him a question I can even get a head nod out of him. But I can only get a response if I'm showing him farm equipment. He was an Iowa farmer all his life, it's all he ever did and is all he still wants to do. The first tractor I drove was his 4020 he taught me on. As a kid I used to watch him pulling his JD round baler with his 4440 and I wanted to be just like him when I grew up. So this is the best I can do, even if it's just by one acre at a time.


You Sir have taken the 1st step to being a successful Farmer......A TRUE Love for it....it gets in your blood and heart if not already there !


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## JD3430

Tater Salad said:


> You Sir have taken the 1st step to being a successful Farmer......A TRUE Love for it....it gets in your blood and heart if not already there !


And then one day you get a "great deal" on a used round baler and it has sensor & bale command problems and rains comin'. Lol


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## Tater Salad

But you went out and got that hay didn't ya !!!!!!!


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## stack em up

Tater Salad said:


> But you went out and got that hay didn't ya !!!!!!!


Maybe...


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## Swv.farmer

I think making hay is fulfilling makes you fill good to look at a field all rolled up whith no rain in sight then get it off the field and put down a little fertlizer and the next day get a good drizel of rain and then go to waiting on the next cutting.


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## Hayjosh

stack em up said:


> Maybe...


A few years ago on first cutting we had a beautiful window. It was two days into the dry and out of nowhere this thunderstorm popped up and it rained, and it rained, and it RAINED. It rained for the next several days. Almost everybody in the county got caught with their pants down; there was a lot of hay lost that first cutting. I remember looking at the Weatherchannel forecast that said it was sunny out and 0% chance of rain as I was looking out the window, and it was definitely NEITHER of those.


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## Vol

Hayjosh said:


> A few years ago on first cutting we had a beautiful window. It was two days into the dry and out of nowhere this thunderstorm popped up and it rained, and it rained, and it RAINED. It rained for the next several days. Almost everybody in the county got caught with their pants down; there was a lot of hay lost that first cutting. I remember looking at the Weatherchannel forecast that said it was sunny out and 0% chance of rain as I was looking out the window, and it was definitely NEITHER of those.


Yep, sometimes the prima donnas at the weather channel and elsewhere....including us....need to be reminded WHO really is in control.

Regards, Mike


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## stack em up

Vol said:


> Yep, sometimes the prima donnas at the weather channel and elsewhere....including us....need to be reminded WHO really is in control.
> 
> Regards, Mike


In the wise words of Shetland Sheepdog, Mother Nature is SWMBO!


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## r82230

Hayjosh, it appears that you can more than break even on this deal, with the following considerations:

1) you are enjoying harvesting one acre

2) you break even on the cost (whether you pay in cash or fellowship and adult beverages).

3) it is 'priceless' for your conversations with your grandfather.

Where are you in Michigan by the way.


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## Hayjosh

r82230 said:


> Hayjosh, it appears that you can more than break even on this deal, with the following considerations:
> 
> 1) you are enjoying harvesting one acre
> 
> 2) you break even on the cost (whether you pay in cash or fellowship and adult beverages).
> 
> 3) it is 'priceless' for your conversations with your grandfather.
> 
> Where are you in Michigan by the way.


Kalamazoo/Richland, MI.

So just to update this, I did the little acre in addition to my 6 acre field. It was good practice for me to figure out how to manage two different fields down at once without getting overwhelmed. My 6 acre field was out of hand, too much growth so my new hay guy came in and mowed it down with his SP John Deere. We took a risk, there was a lot of grass and not a lot of dry days but cut anyways. I went in and tedded it same day it was mowed, he came in two days later and raked with his 4 basket rake. I was going to pull 200 squares off the middle and have him round bale the rest.

Long story short, I broke my square baler 30 feet into the tiny field (I fixed it later, but couldn't fix it then), so borrowed another square baler, finished that field up...got 35 bales and sold them as goat hay to one of my buyers. I had my other guy just go ahead and round bale my entire 6 acres and he bought all the round bales. Problem solved. We got 25 big round bales.

We decided we'd just do this arrangement every year where he comes in and round bales first cutting. Not good horse hay and just too much tonnage for me to handle.

HOWEVER, I must have made an impression on him nonetheless because he hired me to square bale 11 acres for one of his clients, and I am picking up another 11 acre field just a quarter mile down the road.

So needless to say my little 6 acre operation just went to 29 in a single season. Turns out the weather didn't cooperate for the 11 acres he wanted me to square bale and he had to round bale it, but he will use me in the future. And he's a great guy, a wealth of knowledge about hay and makes some good hay. He was putting up 190 acres this first cutting. He really liked the hay we made on my 6 acres.

So it's just funny how things work out like it has for some others here. Just by trying to pick up one more acre, which somehow blossoms into 22 more. I ended up getting a mower so I can be completely self sufficient when I need to be.

When I get really brave there is another 18 acre field I might try to take, have it all round baled first cutting, and then take some squares off second cutting along with some round bales, and hire him out for the mowing and raking.


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## Thorim

It is great to see someone who loves what they are doing and seeing their hard work and effort paying off


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## r82230

Hayjosh,

Looks like you have hit several home runs, may the sun always shine when your hay is ready to bale, just continue the conversations with your grandfather.

Some people may think you are 'lucky', but usually they have made a mistake confusing luck with hard work and integrity . Your impression on your neighbor most likely was not about luck.

You are close to old K-zoo (is the free college to all High School graduates still in place?), WMU and for those NY Yankee fans, Derek Jeter's home town (and they wonder, who paid for all those HS graduates college costs).

Larry


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## arfowler

I cringe when someone approaches me to 'help' me out by letting me cut their field for free. You can never explain how tight the margins on hay are in southeastern NC. They always want just a few bales for their horses or are only gonna have a couple horses grazing it. Herbicides, fertilizer, and insecticides can quickly crest hundred bucks an acre and pretty soon I can buy hay cheaper than I can grow it on a field for free. I learned to be a pencil pusher first and a hay man second.


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## Hayjosh

My grandpa passed away tonight, and now there's one less true-blooded farmer in the world. I'm thankful that my little farming hobby allowed me to get through to him. I'm going to pick up a little toy John Deere tractor to put in his casket, because you just can't separate a farmer from his green machine. Even in the nursing home, he was telling his nurses he needed to go mow hay or feed the cows, and they'd just tell him my uncle had already taken care of it.

All of his equipment still sits in his sheds, it's been 10 or 20 years since some of it's been used, but my uncle still always maintains the tractors to this day (a 4440, 3010, and 4020 were the main ones), still running them and regularly changing out the fluids. My wish would be that I can get his 4020 some day and do my farming with my grandpa's tractor--the very tractor he taught me on


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## Thorim

Hayjosh said:


> My grandpa passed away tonight, and now there's one less true-blooded farmer in the world. I'm thankful that my little farming hobby allowed me to get through to him. I'm going to pick up a little toy John Deere tractor to put in his casket, because you just can't separate a farmer from his green machine. Even in the nursing home, he was telling his nurses he needed to go mow hay or feed the cows, and they'd just tell him my uncle had already taken care of it.
> 
> All of his equipment still sits in his sheds, it's been 10 or 20 years since some of it's been used, but my uncle still always maintains the tractors to this day (a 4440, 3010, and 4020 were the main ones), still running them and regularly changing out the fluids. My wish would be that I can get his 4020 some day and do my farming with my grandpa's tractor--the very tractor he taught me on


My condolences on the passing of your Grandpa. You will always have the memories you made with your Grandpa and the knowledge that you made his last years better by sharing your farming with him even if was just in pictures and words...


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## JD3430

That's a really heartwarming story. You're very lucky to have him in your life to mentor you! 
I lost both my parents recently enough to know how much it hurts. 
Heal quickly. I'm sure he'd want you to get out there and get farming!!


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