# What to plant after Alfalfa



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Next year we have another field we are going need to break up and replant. What would be good crop to plant, besides oats. Several years ago we panted barley as a cover crop, but you only get one cutting. With oats I can at least get two. Just wondering what my other options are.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

We rent ours out to row crop. Barley, sugar beets, or beans.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

CowboyRam said:


> Next year we have another field we are going need to break up and replant. What would be good crop to plant, besides oats. Several years ago we panted barley as a cover crop, but you only get one cutting. With oats I can at least get two. Just wondering what my other options are.


I plant grass here and can get four cuttings of straight grass(Orchard) the year after straight alfalfa.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I prefer corn,it sucks up N from the alfalfa.

Millet would work also if you want a forage crop.

Sudan grass,Annual ryegrass and Teff would be some other options.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Like Cy, corn here as well, then soybeans and back to alfalfa, or corn/soybeans/cereal rye/alfalfa.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I like Teff grass for alfalfa rotation. I can get 4 cuttings of it. Since you are further north it might not work for you though. I am lucky to get 3 cuttings of an orchard/brome here on the first year and none of those cuttings are very good. Only the last cutting is that good. I think it's because it just gets started to late here in the spring and it starts getting cold to early. Low of 37 this morning.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Been wondering the same thing myself since I have a stand of alfalfa that has thinned out due to insects feeding on the roots. This will be my first stand of alfalfa to terminate and rotate to another crop. I gather it is best to rotate to a grass type crop to break the life cycle of insects that may be present and also take advantage of the nitrogen left by the alfalfa. I'm probably going to plant either corn or milo.

Are you looking to plant a hay crop or grain crop for a rotation?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> I plant grass here and can get four cuttings of straight grass(Orchard) the year after straight alfalfa.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 Wow, four cuttings of orchard grass. Would you say it is the N left by the alfalfa that makes the orchard so productive? If so that is very interesting as I thought it was our hot summers and dry spells that pretty much make orchard a two cutting crop here.....not a lack of N.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm not sure yet. We thought about growing some beer barley for this year, but chose not to. Has anyone grown any beer barley. We were told if it does not meet requirements they might refuse it.

We don't have equipment for harvesting a grain crop. A couple years ago we grew some corn on six acres, but the cost to harvest was to great; $500 just to combine.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

$500 to combine 6 acres??? check custome rate survey for your area. That seems really high. Thinking it would be closer to $35/acre.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Yep he got screwed.$35 is going rate here also.Trucking would be extra,that would be about .10 a bu to local elevator.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Y



Farmineer95 said:


> $500 to combine 6 acres??? check custome rate survey for your area. That seems really high. Thinking it would be closer to $35/acre.





swmnhay said:


> Yep he got screwed.$35 is going rate here also.Trucking would be extra,that would be about .10 a bu to local elevator.


Yea. We had to pay the minimum no matter how much acreage we had to harvest. I don't remember what the minimum was anymore. It does not pay to do small acreages.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I wouldn't take the header off, transport, put the header back on, and cut for an hour just to repeat the process for less than the minimum either. Especially if I was paying a hired hand to do it, actually at least two hired hands, one for the machine and one for the header.
I guess I can see both sides of the equation. It just sucks getting anything done on small acreage.
Beer barley was raised on our south field this year. The neighbor had x amount of acres contracted. Come harvest time the custom combine does every field that he has for a set price. They can turn away a load for quality reasons, and you are limited in what you can spray on it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

High custom combine, trucking costs plus low commodity prices is why we don't do any corn or wheat cops anymore in rotation. Most of our separate fields are 35 acres at the largest and the last time we raised corn or wheat it was kinda tough to get a combine to come harvest. And then they speed through it so fast there is a lot of waste. Sometimes you make more on a smaller field growing nothing if it's a rotation field. It's just how it is here. I think cowboyrams $500 bill for combining a few acres is reasonable for this area. I have turned down requests many times to swath 5-7 acres here and there. I wouldn't charge less then $500 to cut hay on 5 acres and guys don't want to pay that. A combine and head costs a lot more then my swather. This is why I've decided I like Teff for a rotation crop. 4 cuttings. Easier to sell then oat hay. Just gotta deal with its drying habits. If you want to fall plant just disc it up or RU after 3rd cutting.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Wow, four cuttings of orchard grass. Would you say it is the N left by the alfalfa that makes the orchard so productive? If so that is very interesting as I thought it was our hot summers and dry spells that pretty much make orchard a two cutting crop here.....not a lack of N.


I suppose it is the fixated N....I don't know what else it could be...but the Orchard seems to thrive.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Been wondering the same thing myself since I have a stand of alfalfa that has thinned out due to insects feeding on the roots. This will be my first stand of alfalfa to terminate and rotate to another crop. I gather it is best to rotate to a grass type crop to break the life cycle of insects that may be present and also take advantage of the nitrogen left by the alfalfa. I'm probably going to plant either corn or milo.
> 
> Are you looking to plant a hay crop or grain crop for a rotation?


Why don't you leave the alfalfa and drill in the grass....the insects will still retreat. And that is a heck of a combination for sales.

Regards, Mike


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Teslan said:


> High custom combine, trucking costs plus low commodity prices is why we don't do any corn or wheat cops anymore in rotation. Most of our separate fields are 35 acres at the largest and the last time we raised corn or wheat it was kinda tough to get a combine to come harvest. And then they speed through it so fast there is a lot of waste. Sometimes you make more on a smaller field growing nothing if it's a rotation field. It's just how it is here. I think cowboyrams $500 bill for combining a few acres is reasonable for this area. I have turned down requests many times to swath 5-7 acres here and there. I wouldn't charge less then $500 to cut hay on 5 acres and guys don't want to pay that. A combine and head costs a lot more then my swather. This is why I've decided I like Teff for a rotation crop. 4 cuttings. Easier to sell then oat hay. Just gotta deal with its drying habits. If you want to fall plant just disc it up or RU after 3rd cutting.


We are not going to get a 3rd cutting on the oats. We were just going to graze it off.

I would be interested in more information on Teff.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Why don't you leave the alfalfa and drill in the grass....the insects will still retreat. And that is a heck of a combination for sales.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 That was my original thought but I have talked with the NC state entomologist about the problem I'm having with the white fringed beetle and he said considering the level of infestation that I have that he wouldn't recommend that as he felt the beetles would still continue feeding and reproducing on what alfalfa is left. Said my best option to try to reduce the population was not to plant any broadleaf crop in the field or adjacent fields. I had planned on planting alfalfa next spring in the field across the road from the one that is infested but he said even that would be very risky and would have a high chance of being damaged. My hope is to be able to go back with alfalfa year after next. Unfortunately I have started seeing some slight damage in a field that isn't even close to the one that is infested.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Lostin55 said:


> I wouldn't take the header off, transport, put the header back on, and cut for an hour just to repeat the process for less than the minimum either. Especially if I was paying a hired hand to do it, actually at least two hired hands, one for the machine and one for the header.
> I guess I can see both sides of the equation. It just sucks getting anything done on small acreage.
> Beer barley was raised on our south field this year. The neighbor had x amount of acres contracted. Come harvest time the custom combine does every field that he has for a set price. They can turn away a load for quality reasons, and you are limited in what you can spray on it.


I can see that a factor. I see it from the standpoint where there are 5 combines in less than 2 miles from me and they don't drop the header for roading. I guess I'm spoiled.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Farmineer95 said:


> I can see that a factor. I see it from the standpoint where there are 5 combines in less than 2 miles from me and they don't drop the header for roading. I guess I'm spoiled.


Yes there really aren't that many people that own combines around here within 5 miles. Maybe because corn harvest here can safely last into December so the few combine owners can get everyone done. I know two and only one does custom work. In fact recently I was talking with the owner of the Massey Ferguson dealer and asked why he never sold MF combines. He said he never wanted to. In the beginning MF was trying to pressure him to. He said the sales of combines in this area just are not there. He would lose money selling them. I don't think the former NH dealer sold many NH combines either. I don't remember ever seeing one on his lot. Just JD and they only have one or two on the lot.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Owning a header has never ever been on my wish list,l get it hey just thinking about that


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## MFSuper90 (Jun 26, 2015)

My opinion it depends on your farm's needs. If you are short on hay for your own cattle a wheat, barley/oat/peas, or triticale might be the way to go. If you only sell hay for horse people then drop the drill in and plant orchard. If selling hay isn't your main income, then take of 2 cuttings of alfalfa, plant wheat, harvest the next summer, bale the straw, put in a winter cover crop, harvest, and plant beans on year 2. That's a lot of crops in 2 years. Alfalfa, wheat, straw, cover crop, and beans.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Our goal is to sell hay to the dairies. I don't want to grow anything that we can't put up ourselves. Just to costly around here to get the custom guys to combine. Most horse people around here can't handle the 3x4 bales.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Teslan said:


> I like Teff grass for alfalfa rotation. I can get 4 cuttings of it. Since you are further north it might not work for you though. I am lucky to get 3 cuttings of an orchard/brome here on the first year and none of those cuttings are very good. Only the last cutting is that good. I think it's because it just gets started to late here in the spring and it starts getting cold to early. Low of 37 this morning.


How many cutting do you usually get off of Teff, and when are you able to plant it?

Here my seed supplier is say on the 1st for June or after


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> How many cutting do you usually get off of Teff, and when are you able to plant it?
> 
> Here my seed supplier is say on the 1st for June or after


I get 4 cuttings. Gonna probably cut next week the last one. I didn't fertilize for 3rd or 4th so it won't make to much plus it is cooler now so it's not growing much. I planted this time around May 15. Probably somewhat to early but I just don't have time the first of June to be preparing fields and planting. As that is typically 1st cutting for most everything. You are further north so probably more important to plant after June 1. So if you plant June 1 you probably will get your first cutting on July 15 or so. Then August 15, Sept 15 and maybe that's it for you? For me I cut about June 27th, July 27th, August 27th. And maybe next week. So what they say about first cutting 45 days then every 30 after is right on. For your info it seems people in Cheyenne know about Teff way more then the Denver area. I've sold more Teff to Cheyenne buyers then anywhere else. And usually I don't sell any hay to anyone from Wyoming.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Hey thanks Teslan.

My seed guy is suggested Italian ryegrass green spirit. The advantage with it is I could plant it earlier. What do you guys think of it?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

CowboyRam said:


> Hey thanks Teslan.
> 
> My seed guy is suggested Italian ryegrass green spirit. The advantage with it is I could plant it earlier. What do you guys think of it?


I am thinking swmnhay grows a good bit of Italian Rye in Minnesota.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Vol said:


> I am thinking swmnhay grows a good bit of Italian Rye in Minnesota.
> 
> Regards, Mike


ive grown mostly Annual Ryegrass as a cover crop for alfalfa.I tried Italian Rye once but was disappointed in yield.Annual Rye seed price slightly less also.

Ryegrass will yield more then Teff but be coarser feed.

A light frost would kill Teff but Ryegrass would be fine.


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

We like triticale. It sells easy.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> ive grown mostly Annual Ryegrass as a cover crop for alfalfa.I tried Italian Rye once but was disappointed in yield.Annual Rye seed price slightly less also.
> 
> Ryegrass will yield more then Teff but be coarser feed.
> 
> A light frost would kill Teff but Ryegrass would be fine.


I've thought of Annual ryegrass thinking maybe it would be not as crazy as teff to dry, but if it is course it would scare off many hay buyers.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

azmike said:


> We like triticale. It sells easy.


But for a a good price? Compared to grass or alfalfa hay?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> I've thought of Annual ryegrass thinking maybe it would be not as crazy as teff to dry, but if it is course it would scare off many hay buyers.


It has a waxy leaf surface which makes it harder to dry.Plus the extra tonnage.I've had as high as 3.5 ton on the first cutting.It's finer then oats hay but coarser then Teff


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> It has a waxy leaf surface which makes it harder to dry.Plus the extra tonnage.I've had as high as 3.5 ton on the first cutting.It's finer then oats hay but coarser then Teff


I have a perrennial ryegrass in a grass mix that I planted. It's blades don't seem any bigger or courser then orchard or brome. Is annual different then that?


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

Teslan said:


> But for a a good price? Compared to grass or alfalfa hay?


We sell for the same as sorgum/sudan grass. We are over seeding an alfalfa pivot with triticale as well as another pivot by itself. I actually have some "free" seed from a seller as a test comparison plot.

We are in a warmer climate, the trit grows early-rests for a while then grows good in February/March.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

azmike said:


> We sell for the same as sorgum/sudan grass. We are over seeding an alfalfa pivot with triticale as well as another pivot by itself. I actually have some "free" seed from a seller as a test comparison plot.
> 
> We are in a warmer climate, the trit grows early-rests for a while then grows good in February/March.


It probably does better there. Most people that raise triticale/sorgum/sudan here raise it for their own use. Unless they really mess it up then they try and sell it.  There was a guy selling 3x4 bales for $5 each of triticale. I asked him why he was selling for so low as it wouldn't be worth it at that price to grow. He said it was moldy.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> I have a perrennial ryegrass in a grass mix that I planted. It's blades don't seem any bigger or courser then orchard or brome. Is annual different then that?


id say the blades on annual are wider then perennial.Especialy on the first cutting.Around 1/2"-5/8"Not a huge difference but slightly wider.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> id say the blades on annual are wider then perennial.Especialy on the first cutting.Around 1/2"-5/8"Not a huge difference but slightly wider.


Maybe I'll try some next time I need to rotate out of alfalfa. The year I first bought teff from you Cy my local seed dealer tried to talk me into annual ryegrass instead of Teff. I don't even see it on their seed list now.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I have found the annual rye grass ,the horse people like it with less sugar.and you know their all ways right.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Waldo said:


> I have found the annual rye grass ,the horse people like it with less sugar.and you know their all ways right.


Yes I tell many horse people that I don't add sugar to my hay as others do.


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

Last winter was our first sortie growing triticale. The horse folks bought us out in days, apparently it is on the list of hay that won't kill their animals! We will try for our last cutting of alfalfa to be heavy with triticale.

Some information:

http://animalscience.psu.edu/news/2008/interseeding-triticale-and-alfalfa


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