# Seeding into already grass stand?



## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

My coworker has a 4-5 acres grass patch on top of a hill in NE SD. He says there is rocks and would like to seed some brome grass into it, to create a better stand. He is wondering how to apply it? Should he just broadcast it late this fall, or get a no-till JD seeder and seed it in. He says there is rocks there and was wondering what would be the best option.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I took an old cow pasture and no-tilled alfalfa into the existing grass stand. Was a cow pasture for a reason, extremely rolling with most of it being HEL.

Not sure about seeding grass into grass though, I'm sure somebody else in the membership can give you a much better answer.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Never had anything like that here--no rocks, so this is an interesting question.

I would think that a no-till drill would get damaged hitting rocks. I guess it would depend on the size of the rocks.

My thought/question without knowing what the ground is like is: Would it be possible to run a disc over it once very lightly, then broadcast the seed and finally run over it with a chain harrow? The seed only needs to be about 1/8th to 1/4 inch deep. So I'm thinking that just loosening the top might be enough.

Just thinking.

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If the existing stand is to thick you prly won't get much brome to take.Probably only in thin spots.

Maybe burn it off with roundup and notill into that without working the ground.

I'm thinking of doing that this summer on a field that the bluegrass has taken over.It is prone to flooding so I'm afraid to work it up for fear of sheet erosion.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Ralph,notill drills are typically heavy enough that rocks don't bother them if you use common sense.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> Ralph,notill drills are typically heavy enough that rocks don't bother them if you use common sense.


Dang thing :angry:


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Got it, Cy. I'm imagining rocks 4+ inches. Is this about right?

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> If the existing stand is to thick you prly won't get much brome to take.Probably only in thin spots.
> 
> Maybe burn it off with roundup and notill into that without working the ground.


Agree about the existing stand keeping new grass from establishing.....either burn it down like Cy says or take a disc mower and mow it real close then no-till.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> Got it, Cy. I'm imagining rocks 4+ inches. Is this about right?
> 
> Ralph


We have some rocks 2-3 ft across.And small ones also.Depends where the glaciers deposited them.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> We have some rocks 2-3 ft across.And small ones also.Depends where the glaciers deposited them.


Doesn't hitting those rocks bend the opening discs or coulters?

Ralph

The only thing I know about rocks is the kind I like to pour Scotch over.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Not sure about brome but from multiple experiences timothy will not thicken with over seeding but if you have a bare patch in a field and seed that it does fine. The late season hybrid orchard grass varieties don't overseed for beans either. Some of the early maturing old native ones do but they mature so early they are straw by the time we get weather to make dry hay-they work fine for wet wrap. I have used a haybuster, and a great plains no-till drill and now own a Brillion till and seed. I like the brillion best but germanation is helped by one or two passes with a disc and rolling afterwards with a roller harrow. If we have a 3 foot rock, it is a boulder or a rock outcrop. the boulder gets dug out the rock outcrop gets respect and we lift the drill out of the ground to go over. I suspect that approach won't work in glacial areas-too many to dig out.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> Doesn't hitting those rocks bend the opening discs or coulters?
> 
> Ralph
> 
> The only thing I know about rocks is the kind I like to pour Scotch over.


We are constantly picking rock here.The frost keeps pushing them up.There maybe a rock at ground level and you go to dig it out and find it to be huge.I may have dug out a dozen boulders over the yrs.Most of the rock here are 12" or less but there can be a lot of them.Farms vary a lot on how many rock they have.

Yea things can break from rock.Thats why we are constanly picking them up.Slow down in bad spots.A guy realy doesn't have a lot of issues with openers,spring loaded they go over.

Rock picking is just part of farming HERE.

I roll new seeding fields to push stones back in.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I have a rock stickimg out a few inches in a lowland grass area.The baldes on cutter will just knick it if I don't pick up the cutter.I poked down with my bale spear and found it to be atleast 4' across.I have no idea how tall it is.It will probably still be there when I'm gone.Some of these bolders are 4-8000lbs or more.

I've tried digging some out with backhoe and you can't get them out of the hole so dig deeper alongside and get it deeper so your tillage tools won't hit it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm glad this subject came up. I've been sort of thinking about trying to drill some smooth Brome into a somewhat thin orchard field I have after 3rd cutting. Should be about 5 weeks from a killing frost unless we get a Sept/Early October snow storm so it would be a gamble. But what part of farming isn't a gamble.. Not sure if it will work. 1st cutting seems to sometimes grow to fast for new seedings to compete plus when I cut first cutting sometimes that shocks and kills the new seedlings.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies,

My friend's pasture has some small rocks 4" and some bigger boulders. He likes the idea of mowing it close and then no-tilling it in. He also says thank you for the replies, the information has been helpful.

Richard


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi T&R, what you're trying is a gamble. If you were drilling alfalfa into existing grass sod, it could be possible. But grass into grass? I'd imagine it will only take in the bare patches. Some guys are saying to spray Roundup and then no-till...personally I wouldn't recommend it...save your $, you'll only waste seed. To be able to no-till drill grass into an existing grass means being very precise with your seed depth. Too shallow, and you won't have any seed-soil contact....too deep, and the seed won't have enough energy to emerge from a deeper depth. And as you can imagine, it can get very tough to punch through existing sod with your openers, yet not going to deep. If you want a thicker stand that much....burn it off, work the ground up until its a firm and fine seedbed, drill, then cultipack. It's just my opinion, not saying it's the right one for everyone.


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