# Disappointed



## Outdoor (6 mo ago)

8 flat acres, 2 full size donkeys, can't get anyone to cut. Guy that was cutting it before I bought it is nothing but a loser. He was cutting about 50 acres all adjoining and we all dropped him one at a time. I have a 25 hp kioti tractor but it's really small for cutting and haying. Cost of even used equipment is not worth the headache of harvesting my own hay... Then throw in cost for treatment. So I'm just buying my hay from a local guy. What would you do with those fields regarding keeping them cut down. A brush hog? Sickle bar? Other ideas? Thank you!


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## sea2summit (Aug 4, 2021)

Brushhog, you couldn't give me a sickle bar unless I needed to cut some ditches.

Not shocked he's not doing hay, not any money in it right now with input costs, broke one middle of the road expensive part this year which is putting me on track to loose money this year which is how tight my margins are. Next year I might only cut hay for my own use.


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## Outdoor (6 mo ago)

sea2summit said:


> Brushhog, you couldn't give me a sickle bar unless I needed to cut some ditches.
> 
> Not shocked he's not doing hay, not any money in it right now with input costs, broke one middle of the road expensive part this year which is putting me on track to loose money this year which is how tight my margins are. Next year I might only cut hay for my own use.


Appreciate your input, sadly I use to own a brush hog...I'll be looking for another one. As far as even cutting my own fields the cost for bailer, tedder and cutting machine FAR exceeds 20 years of hay costs. I need 120 -150 sq bails per year @ $7.00 average cost is $1000 per year ( right now) I'll buy good hay and never have to treat fields, cut fields or repair any equipment.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

I would say either a brush hog or flail mower.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

For only 120-150 bales a year, loose hay is a real option. It doesn’t need to be baled to be good feed.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Outdoor said:


> Appreciate your input, sadly I use to own a brush hog...I'll be looking for another one. As far as even cutting my own fields the cost for bailer, tedder and cutting machine FAR exceeds 20 years of hay costs. I need 120 -150 sq bails per year @ $7.00 average cost is $1000 per year ( right now) I'll buy good hay and never have to treat fields, cut fields or repair any equipment.


I think you might be the first person I’ve seen who gets this.


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## Saucymynx (10 mo ago)

Maybe I am off face but here’s how I see the math: I have said no nothing about the quality of your fields but let’s just say you produce 2 tons of hay per acre. That works out to about 700 45 pound bales. If your market is seven dollars per bail, that’s roughly $5000 gross. Just as rough guess, figure 2 dollars per valil production cost, leaving a net of $3500 per year. From an equipment standpoint, if you had a tractor that could run a small square baler, I’m sure you could pick up a used one for about four grand (I have a JD 327 for sale right now, asking 3800, in working condition). you can find a functional side delivery rate for 1000, and a used haybine for $2000 (I bought a used NH 479 last year for 1500 at auction and it has been terrific). So that’s $7000. More if you want a tedder or need a wagon. That makes your break even point 2 years. You could certainly buy newer equipment and push your break even point out further but I don’t think the numbers look as bad as you might think. Of course none of this takes into account your labor which is worth something but it also doesn’t take into account the tax benefits of the years in which you have a loss. Also, producing hay for sale may qualify you for a farm tax exemption. Lastly, doing your own hair puts you in complete control of the timing and production quality. And, if you have equipment and make decent hey, there are likely other small land holders that would be interested in your services if you have the time and inclination. I say all this from my very limited to your experience producing my own hair on 10 acres. Where I live it is difficult to find people who do small square bales, as most are putting up around bales for cattle. My fields are very nice and I just couldn’t see whacking it all down with a brush hog and then turning around and buying hay. I also find it really satisfying and enjoyable. Just a different perspective…


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## MTB98 (Feb 13, 2021)

@Saucymynx I agree. If you shop for bargains you can get decent hay equipment for the cost of a couple years of buying hay. If you produce more than you need and can sell some even better. If you buy used equipment and keep it in functioning condition it won’t depreciate in value and when you decide to stop haying you can sell it. Or you may want to trade it in and upgrade. *All these rules go out the window if you are unable to do your own repairs and don’t want to run older equipment.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Saucymynx said:


> Maybe I am off face but here’s how I see the math: I have said no nothing about the quality of your fields but let’s just say you produce 2 tons of hay per acre. That works out to about 700 45 pound bales. If your market is seven dollars per bail, that’s roughly $5000 gross. Just as rough guess, figure 2 dollars per valil production cost, leaving a net of $3500 per year. From an equipment standpoint, if you had a tractor that could run a small square baler, I’m sure you could pick up a used one for about four grand (I have a JD 327 for sale right now, asking 3800, in working condition). you can find a functional side delivery rate for 1000, and a used haybine for $2000 (I bought a used NH 479 last year for 1500 at auction and it has been terrific). So that’s $7000. More if you want a tedder or need a wagon. That makes your break even point 2 years. You could certainly buy newer equipment and push your break even point out further but I don’t think the numbers look as bad as you might think. Of course none of this takes into account your labor which is worth something but it also doesn’t take into account the tax benefits of the years in which you have a loss. Also, producing hay for sale may qualify you for a farm tax exemption. Lastly, doing your own hair puts you in complete control of the timing and production quality. And, if you have equipment and make decent hey, there are likely other small land holders that would be interested in your services if you have the time and inclination. I say all this from my very limited to your experience producing my own hair on 10 acres. Where I live it is difficult to find people who do small square bales, as most are putting up around bales for cattle. My fields are very nice and I just couldn’t see whacking it all down with a brush hog and then turning around and buying hay. I also find it really satisfying and enjoyable. Just a different perspective…


Labor to bring in the hay? Fertilizer at >$100/acre? Parts and repairs? Maintenance costs? Your time and stress? What to do with an old broken baler in the field with rain coming in the next day? Herbicide? Insurance? So much not being accounted for. According to your math I should be rolling in cash yet my balance sheet says something completely different.


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## Saucymynx (10 mo ago)

Hayjosh said:


> Labor to bring in the hay? Fertilizer at >$100/acre? Parts and repairs? Maintenance costs? Your time and stress? What to do with an old broken baler in the field with rain coming in the next day? Herbicide? Insurance? So much not being accounted for. According to your math I should be rolling in cash yet my balance sheet says something completely different.


There are certainly lots of things not accounted for. The most important variable is whether you enjoy it or not. Farming a small scale is tough no matter how you look at it. My intent was to present an alternate view. Obviously their mileage will vary. Where I live, peace of mind is one of the most important benefits of doing my own hay. I’ve only been doing this for two years and I have people calling me constantly looking for hay because they can’t find small square bales. If nothing else, I am glad that I am not in that boat. At least I know my flock will be fed through the winter. That certainly lowers my stress level. As for labor, I don’t hire labor because I have things set up to do it as a one person operation. I discount my labor because I enjoy the work. Some people golf – I do hay,


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## HayJimmy (Mar 4, 2020)

fence it for pasture?


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## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

Have you considered stockpiling forage...grass. It involves letting a separated field grow up, then slowly moving an electric fence line across the field to allow the animals to harvest the crop a small section at a time. It depends on your location and the property, but it is worth exploring....It might reduce your hay cost a bit. 
I agree, making hay on 8 acres is not worth the hassle for you or an operator.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Saucymynx said:


> From an equipment standpoint, if you had a tractor that could run a small square baler, I’m sure you could pick up a used one for about four grand (I have a JD 327 for sale right now, asking 3800, in working condition). you can find a functional side delivery rate for 1000, and a used haybine for $2000 (I bought a used NH 479 last year for 1500 at auction and it has been terrific). So that’s $7000. More if you want a tedder or need a wagon. That makes your break even point 2 years.


This works if you're "tinkering" at making hay for yourself and consider selling as a happenstance, IF however you're seriously considering selling then you have to have the equipment that produces the product that people expect


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## Saucymynx (10 mo ago)

Ag


Trillium Farm said:


> This works if you're "tinkering" at making hay for yourself and consider selling as a happenstance, IF however you're seriously considering selling then you have to have the equipment that produces the product that people expect


agreed. The op has two donkeys. That sounds like tinkering. I have 30 sheep. Tinkering. The op has an asset - 8 acres of hah ground. He also has a liability - the need for 150 bales of hay per year. His challenge – and opportunity – Is how to balance his assets and liabilities. I think he can do it. Others with far more experience think he cannot


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## the farmer 3 (Jul 12, 2021)

grandpa showed the younger generation once years ago how to sweep the hay to the barn. 

used a rope in a big loop

kids stood on the rope as the hay piled up in the loop of the rope

dragged a huge pile right to the barn 

doorways on both sides of the barn allowed it to be pulled right inside to be pitched into a haymow.

use the donkeys to pull the hay to the barn or a small tractor


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Saucymynx said:


> Ag
> 
> agreed. The op has two donkeys. That sounds like tinkering. I have 30 sheep. Tinkering. The op has an asset - 8 acres of hah ground. He also has a liability - the need for 150 bales of hay per year. His challenge – and opportunity – Is how to balance his assets and liabilities. I think he can do it. Others with far more experience think he cannot


It sounds like he’s already done the math and has determined $1000 a year is a small price to pay for not having to worry about managing and farming the field and repairing equipment. Not everybody likes to make hay.


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## matador (Jun 18, 2014)

The other thing about cheap equipment is it's great.... when it works. If you don't know how to fix equipment, going out and buying the first $1000 baler you find likely won't end well at all. Part of me does wonder if he'd be better off with a cheap haybine over a rotary cutter in the long term, but likely the hassle of dealing with it would negate that anyways. There's value in doing things the simple, easy way


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Noone is considering the cost he is stating now. Buying a bush9g, fuel to mow at least twice a year, labor/time to bushog . Plus's and minus to both sides. Cheapest and easiest is using it for pasture. Just my 2 cents. 

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Saucymynx said:


> Maybe I am off face but here’s how I see the math: I have said no nothing about the quality of your fields but let’s just say you produce 2 tons of hay per acre. That works out to about 700 45 pound bales. If your market is seven dollars per bail, that’s roughly $5000 gross. Just as rough guess, figure 2 dollars per valil production cost, leaving a net of $3500 per year. From an equipment standpoint, if you had a tractor that could run a small square baler, I’m sure you could pick up a used one for about four grand (I have a JD 327 for sale right now, asking 3800, in working condition). you can find a functional side delivery rate for 1000, and a used haybine for $2000 (I bought a used NH 479 last year for 1500 at auction and it has been terrific). So that’s $7000. More if you want a tedder or need a wagon. That makes your break even point 2 years. You could certainly buy newer equipment and push your break even point out further but I don’t think the numbers look as bad as you might think. Of course none of this takes into account your labor which is worth something but it also doesn’t take into account the tax benefits of the years in which you have a loss. Also, producing hay for sale may qualify you for a farm tax exemption. Lastly, doing your own hair puts you in complete control of the timing and production quality. And, if you have equipment and make decent hey, there are likely other small land holders that would be interested in your services if you have the time and inclination. I say all this from my very limited to your experience producing my own hair on 10 acres. Where I live it is difficult to find people who do small square bales, as most are putting up around bales for cattle. My fields are very nice and I just couldn’t see whacking it all down with a brush hog and then turning around and buying hay. I also find it really satisfying and enjoyable. Just a different perspective…


This math only works if the OP has the time, tools, and talent to keep them going. That is a very big part of the equation!


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## BirdDoc (Jun 26, 2021)

I've got a full set up of compact tractor haying equipment I use with my 32hp Kubota. I bought most of it used and travelled a few thousand miles in getting it all. Drum mower, IHI small square baler, 4 wheel rake, and a 2 basket tedder. Not counting the tractor I have well under 10 grand in it all. Its perfect for something like 8 acres or less and the bales sell well. 

Only the baler has given me fits with the knotters. Mostly because I've never touched a baler before that and have no idea what I'm doing, but from what I can tell they're an exact replica of NH square bale knotters. All the other equipment works without a snag. The drum mower is a beast. 

If you want to do it, it can be done.


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