# Baler problem



## Creekside Quarters (Dec 24, 2009)

Just starting out in the hay operation to attempt to feed our horses and livestock. My grandfather gave me his barely used Massey Ferguson #12 square baler to start out with. During our last cutting of the season, it kept mistying on one side. Then it would bale 3 or 4 fine then mistie again on that same side. Don't have any experience with balers and any help would be greatly appreciated as I have no clue what's going on. We put brand new twine on it and routed it the way the previous twine was run. Please help!


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## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Don't know anything about your baler, but with my NH baler if I use twine that is too small it will miss knots and do the same things that you describe.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Check with your nearest Agco dealer and see if the owner's, service and parts manuals are still available.

If not search the Internerd for a service manual for it. Some baler had seperate manuals jsut for the knotters.


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## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

Miss ties like that are fun to figure out. What twine are you using? Sisal, or plastic? If plastic which one, 170 or 210 knot strength? If you are using 110 knot plastic, that is for round balers. Plastic twine has always given me the best results, but is a little harder on the fingers handling the bales. All knotters basically work the same all though they may be set up a little different. JD has a great section in their manuals on diagnosing knotter problems from what the twine looks like. Kind of like reading a book what the twine will tell you. Get the manual like suggested and hopefully they have the same diagnostic section in it. Empty the baler completely and check then entire timing cycle. It is not that hard to do. Pay particular attention to how the needles are when they pass over the twine disc. The needles should almost touch. Then look at how close the tucker finger is to the needle when it comes up and operates. Either of these being off a little will cause an intermittent tying problem, particularly when you are running a little heavier section. Have you been able to see what the twine looked like on the ones that missed. Was there a knot in one of the ends and not the other? That would tend to indicate one of the two problems I listed above because both pieces of twine are not making it to the bill hook for tying. Is the twine shattered at or near the knot? This could be the twine disc adjusted too tight. If you are using plastic, look at the little pieces that drop out of the twine disc, are the badly crushed? If so disc is too tight, just loosen it up. The twine should actually pull partly out of the twine disc if adjusted properly. This problem is not visible if you are using sisal because it does not show the crush. The more you learn from this, the better you will be able to deal with it in the field, or maybe appreciate how so many of us make it look easy when it is anything but easy.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Also check out your tucker fingers, I think thats what their called, If they arent pushing the twine up all the time it will not tie, Checking for wore spots on the tucker fingers is the main thing, This has happend to me before and it did fix it, Mine was doing what yours is now.
THOMAS


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## chief-fan (Aug 27, 2009)

I had the same baler a couple years ago and it kept getting progressively worse. I was using Sisal twine. It finally got so bad that I had to take it to the shop. I told them to stop at $5 -600 and call me if more. they called after they rebuilt the knotter system. Bill was $1400 ! I don't know what was wrong except that it is darned expensive to rebuild the MF #12 knotters. I gave them the baler and bought a NH S69 for $250. Worked great and still is. I have found out since the the MF knotters have a few more moving parts that wear more easily that the others don't have. Good luck on your problem but just be careful if you take it to the shop. Don't give them a black check to fix it.


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm definitely in a learning process also for twine tie balers (previously had wire tie) but have found the online parts manuals for most all equipment I have. I know AGCO has them for at least some of their machines. I found a factory shop manual for my old IH on ebay; cost me bout 20 bux including shipping.

Lew


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## jhag (Dec 25, 2009)

Hello Lew

It could be as simple as there not being enough tension on the twine coming to the knotter. There is usually some way of " holding back " the twine from the knotter. A plate over the twine as it comes from the box with springs applying tension. This is usually adjusted by tightening spring loaded bolts where the twine is fed from the storage box.

Jim


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

If it is random I would sharpen the twine cutting blades. Good cheap way to start since the blades need to be sharpened couple of times a year anyway.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Here is a page from the net that may prove helpful...I know my manual had a good guide to use to fix my baler...after my brother screwed up the knotters...they are something you want to read up on and not just turn stuff.

http://www.alliedsystems.com/PDF/Troubleshooting%20Knotter.pdf


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## Cannon (Aug 18, 2009)

If you were to post what the knots look like ( as Barry Bowen posted) we can help give you ideas of where to look and what to look for.


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## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

Downtownjr,

The piece you posted for diagnosing knotter is dead on! Those are the same exact pictures that JD has in their manuals at least for the 24T and the 336. The twine will always tell you exactly what is going wrong. Farmers just need to learn how to read it, and that link is a great resource for that. Thanks for that posting.


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## Creekside Quarters (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks alot for all of your help. I do have the owners manual and service manual for the baler. We are using sisal twine bought from tractor supply. Maybe i will switch over to the plastic type of twine instead. Hopefully i can figure out what the problem is by following your advice before haying season comes around. We don't have any hay to bale up right now, but next time it does mistie i will take a picture and send it in. I do know how frustrating it was last year to be in the middle of baling and equipment problems started, especially with all of the rain we had. It seemed liked we only had about 3 to 4 days of good weather and then it would pour again. Once again thanks for all of your help, I am just starting out and need all the help i can get.


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## Creekside Quarters (Dec 24, 2009)

chief-fan said:


> I had the same baler a couple years ago and it kept getting progressively worse. I was using Sisal twine. It finally got so bad that I had to take it to the shop. I told them to stop at $5 -600 and call me if more. they called after they rebuilt the knotter system. Bill was $1400 ! I don't know what was wrong except that it is darned expensive to rebuild the MF #12 knotters. I gave them the baler and bought a NH S69 for $250. Worked great and still is. I have found out since the the MF knotters have a few more moving parts that wear more easily that the others don't have. Good luck on your problem but just be careful if you take it to the shop. Don't give them a black check to fix it.


Hopefully, we wont have to take it to the shop for repairs. My grandfather bought this baler brand new and has probably only baled 1000 bales or less through it and it has always been stored inside.


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## Creekside Quarters (Dec 24, 2009)

Barry Bowen said:


> Miss ties like that are fun to figure out. What twine are you using? Sisal, or plastic? If plastic which one, 170 or 210 knot strength? If you are using 110 knot plastic, that is for round balers. Plastic twine has always given me the best results, but is a little harder on the fingers handling the bales. All knotters basically work the same all though they may be set up a little different. JD has a great section in their manuals on diagnosing knotter problems from what the twine looks like. Kind of like reading a book what the twine will tell you. Get the manual like suggested and hopefully they have the same diagnostic section in it. Empty the baler completely and check then entire timing cycle. It is not that hard to do. Pay particular attention to how the needles are when they pass over the twine disc. The needles should almost touch. Then look at how close the tucker finger is to the needle when it comes up and operates. Either of these being off a little will cause an intermittent tying problem, particularly when you are running a little heavier section. Have you been able to see what the twine looked like on the ones that missed. Was there a knot in one of the ends and not the other? That would tend to indicate one of the two problems I listed above because both pieces of twine are not making it to the bill hook for tying. Is the twine shattered at or near the knot? This could be the twine disc adjusted too tight. If you are using plastic, look at the little pieces that drop out of the twine disc, are the badly crushed? If so disc is too tight, just loosen it up. The twine should actually pull partly out of the twine disc if adjusted properly. This problem is not visible if you are using sisal because it does not show the crush. The more you learn from this, the better you will be able to deal with it in the field, or maybe appreciate how so many of us make it look easy when it is anything but easy.


We are using sisal twine we bought from Tractor Supply last year. From what i can remember the twine on the one side kept getting hung up on that hook thing and then i guess, from the pressure, it would just break the twine. The other side seemed to be doing fine. Do I have to disassemble alot in order to sharpen the knives or is it pretty simple? Also, on the side of each knotter mechanism there is a button or locking mechanism that can be rotated upwards and out of its locked position. Last year when i was attempting to resolve the problem i took the rotated this button out of its locked location and seemed to help for a little while, but not sure if that was the correct thing to do?


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks Downtownjr for that website. That is something that I will print off and save with my other manuals that I keep in my baler tractor. I liked the way that they explain problems. It's good to have as much as possible in our arsenal to figure these things out. Thanks, Mike


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