# Is Pensacola Bahiagrass a perennial?



## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Well? If so, what is it's survival mechanism, roots or volunteer reseeding?

Thanks for you time.

Mark


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

Yes it is, it comes back from the roots. Most years ours will green up after a couple warm days in the winter.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

LaneFarms said:


> Yes it is, it comes back from the roots. Most years ours will green up after a couple warm days in the winter.


Thanks for your time.

This is my first time to use it and I am duly impressed. It looks like sorghum/sudan hybrid but there are no stems to speak of; big fat leaves like milo. I don't know what I did wrong when I planted it, as I mixed it with Pearl Millet which was a mistake...should have put out 100% Bahia; first time to plant both and I was experimenting trying to get away from sorghums. I waited till the soil temp got to a good 65 as the directions said, which took until mid April, a bit late for here and planted it as shallow as I could since I was mixing it and the Pearl needed to be shallow. I drilled it and followed the drill with a roller/packer for good soil contact. The was some of it that came up immediately and some is just now sprouting tells me I planted it too deep. It's going to make a nice hay patch and next year I will overseed it with more to choke out the millet...not getting near the volume/quality with it.

Thanks again,
Mark


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

I am afraid what you are seeing is the millet. Bahia grass takes a while to get established. If you planted it in april it will be no more than 3 or 4 inches tall. The millet is goong tp shade out the bahia causing it to be slower to establish.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

LaneFarms said:


> I am afraid what you are seeing is the millet. Bahia grass takes a while to get established. If you planted it in april it will be no more than 3 or 4 inches tall. The millet is goong tp shade out the bahia causing it to be slower to establish.


Yikes! I thought I had figured out which was which. I guess I need to go and take some pictures and show them to you. I looked at several www sites and could not determine which was which.

I have had foxtail millet on the place for years but never Pearl nor Bahia. I have seen what I thought to be Bahia other places and on my trip to Arizona, especially in and around Plainview, TX. (TX. Panhandle) it was everywhere growing wild.

The plant that I thought was Bahia doesn't look like the plants that I saw elsewhere but I didn't know that maybe the Pensacola variety was different. I guarantee you that this leafy plant I described looks nothing like my Foxtail millet whereas the other prodominant plant coming up looks a lot like it.

If I get you some close up pictures will/can you help me?

Thanks again for your time.

Mark


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

If it's Bahia, you'll see the "Y" shaped seedheads all over the place. I think it puts them up before it grows any leaves. It spreads with roots, shoots, and seeds. It makes decent hay, but down here it doesn't handle drought as well as Bermudia.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Here are some pictures I just took June 9. Side note, field is saturated, mud everywhere.....with a drought last year having this.........you decide. Grin.

Planting date was April 25 after soil was easily above 65F. I drilled Pearl Millet and Pensacola Bahia in a 2:1 seed ratio, 7" centers and tried to get the depth about a half inch to accommodate the shallow requirement for the PM and deeper for the PB. I had a roller/compressor behind the drill to compact the soil.

Subsoil moisture, was well established in a very finely prepared seedbed of Houston Black Clay which was very manageable at planting time. First rain was enough to sprout and occurred May 7 with nice following rains on the 11th, 28th, 30th, and June 7.

#1. 12" ruler. Center of plant is directly below 4" mark on scale. Stems and leaves are skinny and run out almost parallel to the ground. Plant has a blueish tint to it. No red just above the roots like with Foxtain Millet. Looks like what I thought I saw in W. Texas and was told it was Bahia grass. If so, I agree with 120, this isn't what makes a super hay patch and for $120 per 50# a total waste. My PM was only $35 for 50 with the same sized seed.

#2. Foreground is you guessed it Johnson and it came up from rhizomes. Main plant is about 2' and seed pods another foot+. Note the white rib. Immediately above it in the picture is something that I can't identify but it has popped up in fairly large numbers across the patch. It has leaves like JG but wider and no white rib. The grass shown is about 18" tall with no real sign of a stalk and no sign of a seed stem/pod. Grows somewhat around a central root with the center 3" diameter essentially open and the leaves are in little 3 shoot clumps and probably 10 clumps around the plant. These plants are 18" to 2'. Whatever this is would make some absolutely perfect hay and I wish I had a field full of it. I really would like to identify it.

#3. In this picture some JG is in the foreground and scattered about but the shorter vegetation is the main point here. It is roughly just sprouting to maybe 10" max. leaves are thinner than JG for the same size plant and it seems to not have a stem either, just 3 shoots side by side from each seed. This may be my Pearl, or could be Bahia. I have found it in a row in places so I know it is a result of drilling.

Editing, this pic shows mostly JG with the predominant white rib and seed pods. Bad pic for what I wanted to show you. Next pics better.

#4. A blowup of the plant which was the main objective in #3. Ruler is at an angle and plant top is about 10" high.

#5. A shot showing how sparse a crop I got out of 7" row drilling and about 25# of extremely small seeds per acre. The crop is the same plant as in 3 and 4 above.
































Do appreciate your comments.

Regards,
Mark


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Texasmark said:


> Yikes! I thought I had figured out which was which. I guess I need to go and take some pictures and show them to you. I looked at several www sites and could not determine which was which.
> 
> I have had foxtail millet on the place for years but never Pearl nor Bahia. I have seen what I thought to be Bahia other places and on my trip to Arizona, especially in and around Plainview, TX. (TX. Panhandle) it was everywhere growing wild.
> 
> ...


I got the pictures but had to add a new reply below or above wherever they stick it. Your viewing and comments surely appreciated.

Mark


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

The first picture looks more like Dallisgrass than Bahia. Bahia only has two branches on the seedhead. Not sure about the others as I've never messed with Millet.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The thick lush grass looks like PM to me.
I have some coming up that looks like what you have, just not as advanced.
Bahia does not have the thicker/broad type leaves. It also does not grow as tall. 
Pearl Millet is an intriguing plant to me. This is my first time to try it. I planted mine for erosion control and summer grazing. Mostly just to see how it does.
There is a YouTube video of a guy cutting PM that is 6' tall.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Just my personal opinion, you made a mistake of planting Bahia. It'll take over everything, it's tough as hell and doesn't make any hay..


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Colby said:


> Just my personal opinion, you made a mistake of planting Bahia. It'll take over everything, it's tough as hell and doesn't make any hay..


Very well may be and from what I am seeing I agree with you. If it can run off the ......broadleaf weeds, maybe good for it. Have folks around here that bale it and sell it so there is a market for it, but again, not much there.

Thanks,
Mark


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> The thick lush grass looks like PM to me.
> I have some coming up that looks like what you have, just not as advanced.
> Bahia does not have the thicker/broad type leaves. It also does not grow as tall.
> Pearl Millet is an intriguing plant to me. This is my first time to try it. I planted mine for erosion control and summer grazing. Mostly just to see how it does.
> There is a YouTube video of a guy cutting PM that is 6' tall.


Spent a lot of time today out in the hay patch and on the www. At this time I am convinced that I am dealing with PM in the early stages of growth and it could rise to 6'. I will not let that happen so the warning that one needs to crimp the stems would not apply....about 3' will be more than plenty. Am really impressed with this grass if used for hay in the early stages. Price per bag is reasonable also even if you have to re seed every year.

Thanks for your reply,
Mark


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Mike120 said:


> The first picture looks more like Dallisgrass than Bahia. Bahia only has two branches on the seedhead. Not sure about the others as I've never messed with Millet.


I know what Dallis grass is and there is none in this field, other places some, but not here. Have used it for hay before with no problems even though some suggest some parasites within it and problems with livestock.

Thanks for your reply,
Mark


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Mark, I paid $85 per 50 lbs for my PM. Brown Top is around $30. I planted some of each just to see how they compare. My bet is the Pearl Millet will produce much more than the Brown Top.

Several around here have the Tifton 9 Bahia for pasture. Some grow it as a hay. It seem to stand up to grazing well. It just does not make the tons per acre that other grasses do. Grows only so tall then quits.
I have a couple of areas in my Bermuda where Bahia has taken over. If I let it alone it would eventually take over.

My problem with cutting PM for hay is that they want you to leave 4" stubble. I do not think I can buy boots that tall for my disc mower.
If I like the results and plant PM in the future I may graze it most of the summer then pull the cows off early, let it grow tall and bale in the Fall.


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

Mark I believe the grass in the first pic with seed heads is crabgrass. I use PB for pasture but fight to keep it out of my bermuda fields since it will take over.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> Mark, I paid $85 per 50 lbs for my PM. Brown Top is around $30. I planted some of each just to see how they compare. My bet is the Pearl Millet will produce much more than the Brown Top.
> 
> Several around here have the Tifton 9 Bahia for pasture. Some grow it as a hay. It seem to stand up to grazing well. It just does not make the tons per acre that other grasses do. Grows only so tall then quits.
> I have a couple of areas in my Bermuda where Bahia has taken over. If I let it alone it would eventually take over.
> ...


That sounds like a plan. I was going to do just the opposite and if I had any regrowth, graze that. Don't really need to graze it but would.

I have a drum mower and had a 1" extension added to it to get 3". Dealer said that they tried 4" but it didn't work. I'm guessing the stems are long enough to bend when the blade hits them and you get an uneven cut. Don't know what else it would be.

Hear you on the 4", number I got was 6. Sorta impossible if you ask me to work hay on high stubble. I'll plan on just the one cutting and just see what happens. Will post back on here as others surely have the same concerns we do.

Mark


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

LaneFarms said:


> Mark I believe the grass in the first pic with seed heads is crabgrass. I use PB for pasture but fight to keep it out of my bermuda fields since it will take over.


Ill do a google search on it and get educated. People talk about haying Bahia, but the stuff in the pic isn't going to do any any hayin operation any good.

Thanks,

Mark


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

P. Bahai is everywhere down here....lots of people want me to bale their fields....did it once, never again, cross contamination of your Bermuda grass is too great a problem. Stuff makes sorry hay but fairly good for grazing.


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## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

Mark ; I have been working with Pensacola Bahia for over 30 yrs. In your pictures I could find NO pensacola. There is some crabgrass that I would love to have some seed from, it makes great hay.

I have baled many thousand bales of Pensacola & fed them to cattle & horses, it makes ok hay. My best yeild was 88 rolls,4x5.5 at over 1000lb per roll, off 8.2 acres. We weighed 12 rolls on a certfied scale, 1080- 1320 lbs each. Tested out at 12% CP. There is a new Bahia grass out, I just planted 4ac today, tifton-9 {tiftquick}. think of it as pensacola on steroids.

Intresting note; you say if you can controll the broadleaf weeds. What are you going to spray with ?? I have found nothing that won't kill the Pensacola until the pensacola is 6in tall { about 4-6 months old here }. I have killed many an acre of pensacola trying different herbicides. After it is established it is very hard to kill, 1gl of roundup per acre won't kill it.

scrapiron


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ditto on no P Bahai in those pics, scapeiron surely you are talking a yearly production of +10,ooo # per acre


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

scrapiron said:


> Mark ; I have been working with Pensacola Bahia for over 30 yrs. In your pictures I could find NO pensacola. There is some crabgrass that I would love to have some seed from, it makes great hay.
> 
> I have baled many thousand bales of Pensacola & fed them to cattle & horses, it makes ok hay. My best yeild was 88 rolls,4x5.5 at over 1000lb per roll, off 8.2 acres. We weighed 12 rolls on a certfied scale, 1080- 1320 lbs each. Tested out at 12% CP. There is a new Bahia grass out, I just planted 4ac today, tifton-9 {tiftquick}. think of it as pensacola on steroids.
> 
> ...


Now that I am getting more educated, I agree on the crabgrass comment. I can control that by other plants taking over.

Johnson Grass will ultimately be one of the prime take-over grasses and that's ok for hay for me; was here long before sorghum sudan. Only thing I will have to watch is if I graze it after the hay crop in later years, watch for prussic acid stress.

I have identified the other grasses in the picture and they are PM for the fat leafy plants and Bahia for the smaller lighter green plants in the pics. The plants are in a row like my drill would put them out and I pulled up one of the plants and found the tubes between the stem and the roots that is a characteristic of Bahia.

I also have a lot of Foxtail Millet that is perennial via reseeding. It grazes ok, not a lot of volume but helps to keep the broadleaf weeds at bay. No biggie for me.

The last two years I let my field layby and that was a mistake. Some bad weeds really engulfed it. After a thorough workover with the "plowshares" I let it regrow somewhat and did it in again. I then came back this spring with Geophosphate and 2-4D Amine mixed at the rate of 1% each and put this mixture out at about 16 gallons out per acre. It did a pretty good job on the weeds but after it appeared that some were still alive and well, I came back again with 2% 2-4... and hit it again. Then after a week I planted.

Seems the two herbicides did not impact my growth and things are finally humming along.

On killing Bahia, I read somewhere that it will tolerate the lighter applications of Geophospate and the other is a no brainer...not a broadleaf weed.

Oh, Mr. Haymaster, the yields you mentioned herein are 2x my expectations and are excellent for what I want. Thanks.

HTH and thanks for the inputs.

Mark


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I agree that Bahia makes decent hay.....if you fertilize it and cut regularly. The only issue I've seen with it is that it will bleach out pretty fast and really contrast in a Bahia/Bermuda mix. The horses like it though.

Lindsay, I've had no problem using Grazon P+D on my Bahia, but these are established fields. I also wait until I have a fair amount of leaf on the weeds (and everything else) before I spray.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Mark, there may be a grass in the Baha'i family in your pics but there is no PB in those pics.....period. I control the Bahai in my fields with Pastora. Gly does kill it but the application has to be increased, obviously can't use gly to control it in other fields.....like I said before it is a dominate grass here in south Georgia for grazing, just not a lot of leaf structure for baling.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

scrapiron said:


> Mark ; I have been working with Pensacola Bahia for over 30 yrs. In your pictures I could find NO pensacola. There is some crabgrass that I would love to have some seed from, it makes great hay.
> 
> I have baled many thousand bales of Pensacola & fed them to cattle & horses, it makes ok hay. My best yeild was 88 rolls,4x5.5 at over 1000lb per roll, off 8.2 acres. We weighed 12 rolls on a certfied scale, 1080- 1320 lbs each. Tested out at 12% CP. There is a new Bahia grass out, I just planted 4ac today, tifton-9 {tiftquick}. think of it as pensacola on steroids.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the slow reply. Just picked this up.

I sprayed prior to planting by a week. I have not sprayed since then. I cannot answer your question.

The grass is coming along nicely. I had the soil bed all prepared, soil loose and smooth, fertilizer implanted per soil test recommendations, planted and packed. Waited for the weeds and hit them twice with broadleaf and geophosphate and got most of them. Waited a week and planted.

About a week later 1st rain and has been raining on a once a week basis since. So far I am a happy camper and what I see can take over my field any time it wants to. I don't sell hay and have grazing pastures of mixed grasses including coastal which it can have if it wants it. Even with the plants 10+ inches, I have cleaned up some lingering weeds around the edges of the patch by mowing and the grass comes back right away.

So now I have an interesting patch of Bahia, Pearl Millet (getting to love it too), volunteer Foxtail Millet which really responds to fertilizer and very perennial, and the old reliable (which I didn't ask for but will take) Johnson grass.

Soooo if one of these dominant critters wants my hay patch and is perennial........."I'm yours baby". Grin.

Mark


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