# What do horse people want?



## someday hay king (Oct 13, 2019)

I do mostly small squares and a few rounds, mostly straw, but have gotten into hay recently. I'm planning on putting in some pure alfalfa, but what else do the horse people want? What type of grass is the most desirable? I'm in Minnesota. Any information is appreciated


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Orchard grass and timothy is standard for grass horse hay. That's what I sell and feed to my own. Not all horse people like alfalfa, in fact I get a lot that don't want much, if any alfalfa. Fescue is a bad word to horse people so leave that out.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

They want green ,cheap hay. They want you to bend over backwards to please them and if the hay spoils even if it's there fault a complete replacement ASAP. If you have alfalfa they want Timothy then you plant Timothy they want Orchard grass and so on.

Then there are good people but the couple bad ones leave a bad taste in your mouth .


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## Nj hay (Dec 22, 2019)

We have a strong demand for straight timothy,99% of my customers are horse owners.I can't grow enough, wish I had more. planted another 30 acres last fall .it really all depends on your market .. Good luck !


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

They want anything to straight alfalfa to straight grass and every mix in between. Everyone is different. So i grow different mixes and they can decide. And every year its different on what mix sells out first.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> Then there are good people but the couple bad ones leave a bad taste in your mouth .


Ah yes, the 'Horsey People". How do you know you're dealing with a "horsey person"? Well, if the horse has more sense than the owner, that's a good indication.

Haytalk has an entire thread about horsey people. Always good for a chuckle.... https://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/12303-horsey-people/


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

someday hay king said:


> I'm planning on putting in some pure alfalfa, but what else do the horse people want? What type of grass is the most desirable?


I plant pretty much straight alfalfa (a little brome grass), but OG takes over my fields on it's own overtime. What do the horse people want? Well if they want a 50/50 mix that's what I have, if they want 30/70 or 70/30 mix, that's what I have.  I don't tell them the ratio, I let them tell me what they 'think' they want as a ratio (and I seem to have the right one, it's almost like Goldilocks, not to hot, not to cold, but just right ). Haven't had one pull out their analyzer and run a test YET to determine what the actual ratio is.

Larry


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## 7740 (Dec 1, 2019)

Generally, they want the opposite varieties that I have.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Around here they want the highest quality and want to pay year old outside roll cow hay prices...


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## someday hay king (Oct 13, 2019)

r82230 said:


> I plant pretty much straight alfalfa (a little brome grass), but OG takes over my fields on it's own overtime. What do the horse people want? Well if they want a 50/50 mix that's what I have, if they want 30/70 or 70/30 mix, that's what I have.  I don't tell them the ratio, I let them tell me what they 'think' they want as a ratio (and I seem to have the right one, it's almost like Goldilocks, not to hot, not to cold, but just right ). Haven't had one pull out their analyzer and run a test YET to determine what the actual ratio is.
> 
> Larry


I like your strategy!! Sell them what they want, not what you have. Good advice!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Lately around here on the Facebook hay and horsey groups the horsey people have been crowing about low sugar hay. That they need it and need tests from every field and every cutting.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Lately around here on the Facebook hay and horsey groups the horsey people have been crowing about low sugar hay. That they need it and need tests from every field and every cutting.


Yeah, that was all the rage here about 4-5 years ago.....now they are off on other directions. It seems that a sizable sector of the horse crowd will read an article by some guru and then pass it around amongst the community.

Regards, Mike


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)




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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Horse people generally have not clue about horses. They just go with the latest fad at the barn or what their neighbors/friends/???? are saying today.

And, not to profile, the loudest, most overweight, pushiest women usually have the most to say and the least knowledge.

I tried educating them on hay quality and equine nutrition and gave up. If they don't like what I'm selling, at the price I'm selling, I don't sell it to them. A bad customer is worse than no customer at all.

Ralph


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm fortunate in regards to the horse customers I have. We serve a good number of Amish accounts, providing both draft and buggy horse hay. I've suggested to one, that he should consider becoming a horse "consultant ". They're equine knowledge is amazing. The biggest equine account we added a couple years ago, is a breeder with around 50 horses. Again the owner is really on top of all aspects. When she first called, rather than try to explain what we could provide........I invited them to visit our operation. She brought her retired dairy farmer father in law with. As we're standing in a field of waist high alfalfa, timothy, brome ...... he says "this is nice!" She had found a supplier, and we nailed down a great account. Knowing she had a hay supply, she continues to increase her numbers. Win win. Again , I am fortunate.


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Horse Folks want the best quality for less then you can make it, delivered and stacked for free. What Larry said above I grow similar ratios and sell to a variety of customers. Some customers are price shoppers while others think they know more then you do. Those customers, you can spot them a field away, “I know more then you do” type, you get them in the discussion of quality and start talking about the hay test results. They quickly back down, hand over the $$$ and you see nothing but tail lights.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> I tried educating them on hay quality and equine nutrition and gave up. If they don't like what I'm selling, at the price I'm selling, I don't sell it to them. A bad customer is worse than no customer at all.
> 
> Ralph


Where you been Moses?

Regards, Mike


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

When hay was cheep a couple of years ago they would pay $50 a big square now that hay got expensive the hay that is now $50 is good enough for their horse.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> Where you been Moses?
> 
> Regards, Mike


I've been traveling a lot on horse business the last few months: Indiana, Ohio, Cal. and a trip to DC to visit my son. Had to call my wife to find out if I was at home.

Ralph


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

A friend of mine got a message from a would be hay buyer yesterday. This is what she wanted. "demanding proof" before purchase that the grass hay is not genetically modified. It also must be organic, and proof of no blister beetles.

He didn't have what she needed. he he he.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

I'd say that there is a *BIG *difference between "Horse People" & "Horsey People"

Horse people are knowledgeable, in general, horsey people don't have a clue


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

I remember trying to educate some horsey people who were asking how many horses they should have.

I told them 1st you get your farm and then your acreage will dictate how many horses you can have based on pasture rotation and sward health. I must have looked to them like a UFO by the look on their faces.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Just how is a person supposed to prove there aren't any blister beetles? Isn't this like trying to prove no human contacted this hay, or something crazy like that?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

weatherman said:


> Horse Folks want the best quality for less then you can make it, delivered and stacked for free.


You got me on that statement, son (who does most of the selling and ALL of the deliveries of hay), just had a lady ask for a 200 bale delivery. He gave her a price (which included the delivery fee he established), which she agreed to, along with the scheduled delivery date/time. Then she contacted him back and told him he need to bring a tractor with that 'grabber' thing on the front, to unload and stack in her barn. He told her, that would cost extra he'd have to figure out a price (he told her, he didn't think Dad would let it be rented/used at no charge for some odd reason ). He asked was she willing to pay for the tractor/grapple usage ...............&#8230; ...........................&#8230;.. hasn't heard back from this customer.

Larry


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

r82230 said:


> You got me on that statement, son (who does most of the selling and ALL of the deliveries of hay), just had a lady ask for a 200 bale delivery. He gave her a price (which included the delivery fee he established), which she agreed to, along with the scheduled delivery date/time. Then she contacted him back and told him he need to bring a tractor with that 'grabber' thing on the front, to unload and stack in her barn. He told her, that would cost extra he'd have to figure out a price (he told her, he didn't think Dad would let be rented at no charge for some odd reason ), was she willing to pay for the tractor/grapple usage ...............&#8230; ...........................&#8230;.. hasn't heard back from this customer.
> 
> Larry


thats why my delivery method is to leave a full wagon at the delivery site and return when it's empty-my customers know not to dilly dally or they won't be future customers. Some come get the wagons from the field so I can keep moving during prime baling time. I learned long ago that I simply don't have the patience or the time to have someone come to my barn for 6 bales and then want to hand pick them while bitching that they need hay that ain't free.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Ox76 said:


> Just how is a person supposed to prove there aren't any blister beetles? Isn't this like trying to prove no human contacted this hay, or something crazy like that?


Never dealt with blister beetles . But I know some of the commercial hay user's are very picky and need the seller to guarantee quality ,that is sometimes tricky . they do pay top dollar . To sell to them one really needs to know hay and quality well .


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Blister beetles are bad news for the horse's digestive system. They're usually not a problem unless crushed and this happens only when run through a mower-conditioner.

There are methods for mowing an infested field.

Ralph


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

https://www.agweb.com/article/blister-beetle-blamed-death-wisconsin-horses


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

rjmoses said:


> Blister beetles are bad news for the horse's digestive system. They're usually not a problem unless crushed and this happens only when run through a mower-conditioner.
> 
> There are methods for mowing an infested field.
> 
> Ralph


Please share with us the methods for mowing an infested field?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Blister



Ox76 said:


> Please share with us the methods for mowing an infested field?


Blister beetles tend to cluster in specific areas in a field. When mowing, they will tend to fly out in front of the mower, so when you see them flying, go around that area. One article suggests that they "play possum" when the plant is disturbed by falling to the ground then mowing in strips will cause them to migrate to unmowed sections.

The biggest hints are:

1) Watch for grasshoppers--BB's tend to follow them.

2) Mow with a sickle bar mower or non-conditioning mower.

3) Mow before alfalfa flowers (10% or less). (Mowing on a 28 day cycle helps with this, but isn't always possible in the midwest.)

Here's some references about blister beetles:

https://extension2.missouri.edu/g4569

https://www.drovers.com/article/beware-blister-beetle-toxicity

https://bookstore.ksre.ksu.edu/pubs/MF959.pdf

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/PAT/recs/crop/pdf/entfa102.pdf

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

Have very few problems with customers as I have more customers then hay they buy what I have and if they don't like the hay or the price they can go buy from someone else no hard feelings life is too short to try to hit the moving target of what someone else wants


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Thanks for your time in putting up those links, rjmoses.

Dang blister beetles sound like terrible things. They only talk about troubles in alfalfa after first cutting and when subsequent cutting aren't taken off in time and there's some blossoming. Sounds like regular, closely spaced cuttings is a way to control them without pesticide use.

I don't see anything about them in grass hay or grass mix hay. I'd assume this means they aren't a big problem there.

Coming from the northeast I've never even heard of them. We certainly have diverse climates and different problems here in the good ol' USA.

Sounds like maybe a scented bug trap system would work on them since they're attracted to flowering weeds and alfalfa.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ox76 said:


> I don't see anything about them in grass hay or grass mix hay. I'd assume this means they aren't a big problem there.


I've never heard of grass hay containing blister beetles BUT in the photo in Uphayman's link appears to be grass hay that the horses are consuming.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Ox76 said:


> Thanks for your time in putting up those links, rjmoses.
> 
> Dang blister beetles sound like terrible things. They only talk about troubles in alfalfa after first cutting and when subsequent cutting aren't taken off in time and there's some blossoming. Sounds like regular, closely spaced cuttings is a way to control them without pesticide use.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

They are a pretty nasty critter typically living in warmer climates. They do help control the grasshopper population because that is where they lay they eggs.

They prefer alfalfa.

They are not usually a problem in grass hays unless the swarm is moving over a grass hay field towards something they like better Most forage (cool season) grasses only bloom spring/early summer.

Ralph


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## someday hay king (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks for all the responses, think I'll just keep marketing what I have and not worry about upset horsey people!


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

They want clean weed free,no dust, dry but green in color, consistent flake size, not to heavy, and they want it for free to feed there 20k horse with there 100k trailer.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

lol that's it in a nutshell!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ranger518 said:


> They want clean weed free,no dust, dry but green in color, consistent flake size, not to heavy, and they want it for free to feed there 20k horse with there 100k trailer.


Ranger, you forgot something-they want it green and soft but no preservatives and no herbicides to get to weed free


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Hayman1 said:


> Ranger, you forgot something-they want it green and soft but no preservatives and no herbicides to get to weed free


????‍♂ LOL.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

We sure suck at marketing ourselves, why on Earth would anyone want to buy from us? Lol


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

BWfarms said:


> We sure suck at marketing ourselves, why on Earth would anyone want to buy from us? Lol


Cause nobody else would work harder or cheaper  than a farmer,so nobody else has hay to sell. :lol:


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Teslan said:


> Lately around here on the Facebook hay and horsey groups the horsey people have been crowing about low sugar hay. That they need it and need tests from every field and every cutting.


Soon they'll be asking for vegan hay or no gluten hay! OMG :wacko:


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Well if you think you have bad, try having a stallion and have to deal with these horsey people who want to trailer the mare in for a "jump" and then take her away. When I tell them it doesn't work that way with me, they are surprised.  But that's a whole new show!


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Ray 54 said:


> Cause nobody else would work harder or cheaper  than a farmer,so nobody else has hay to sell. :lol:


NO NO dont say that , that is what the dairy farmers said years ago LOL . They were proved wrong both ways .


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I think the problem is they don't know what they want.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Swv.farmer said:


> I think the problem is they don't know what they want.


True--and they are very loud and proud of their ignorance.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Swv.farmer said:


> I think the problem is they don't know what they want.


 This is quite often the problem. Sometimes when they do know what they want the Farmer doesn't know what he has


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## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

Well guys ...I am a "Horse People"...and I am a "Hay People". I grow hay mainly for my own race horse operation, then I sell my excess in the spring to clean out the barns and get ready for the next crop, (and to make a few bucks). Horse people are just like farmers. Some a smart and knowledgeable and honest and reasonable, and some ain't. Some are full time professionals and some are part time not-very-professionals.

I don't waste my time on the gal that wants to buy 10 bales and takes 2 hours to do it. I usually sell no less than 50 bales at a time, and mostly to repeat customers that badger me to turn loose of some hay before I am ready to let it go in the spring. A couple years ago I was long on hay and short on horses and I sold several thousand bales to the hay brokers and they came in with semis, loaded it up and took it straight to the race tracks and Kentucky breeding farms.

I grow straight grass hay, (OG and timothy mix, with a little blue and some residual fescue that I can't kill completely). It is usually a little over on maturity, and always very dry. Most high performance horses get all the calories and nutrients they need from grain, but what a horse must have to keep it's digestive system "GUT" moving and avoid blockages, is lots of roughage,,,HAY,.The hay must be good tasting so the horse will eat it to keep his gut moving. A horse is not a ruminant, it can not cough up garbage and survive. The professional horse people know this, the rookies don't. Horse people are often hobbyist that are long on reading but short on practical reality ,,just like many many boat owners and arm chair hunters.

Some horse owners will feed a little Alfalfa to nursing broodmares or poor keeper race horses. 
There is a growing market for good tasting but low protein hay for fat horses that don't need to get fatter.

I think hay farmers need to understand that horse buyers are the premium buyers and many have the where with all to pay a premium price for hay, which is often double what a cow or goat grower will pay. So that is why it is worthwhile to put up with their quirks.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Edd in KY said:


> Well guys ...I am a "Horse People"...and I am a "Hay People". I grow hay mainly for my own race horse operation, then I sell my excess in the spring to clean out the barns and get ready for the next crop, (and to make a few bucks). Horse people are just like farmers. Some a smart and knowledgeable and honest and reasonable, ......
> 
> I think hay farmers need to understand that horse buyers are the premium buyers and many have the where with all to pay a premium price for hay, which is often double what a cow or goat grower will pay. So that is why it is worthwhile to put up with their quirks.


 You bet and thank God for horses.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Edd in KY said:


> I grow straight grass hay, (OG and timothy mix, with a little blue and some residual fescue that I can't kill completely). It is usually a little over on maturity, and always very dry. Most high performance horses get all the calories and nutrients they need from grain, but what a horse must have to keep it's digestive system "GUT" moving and avoid blockages, is lots of roughage,,,HAY,.The hay must be good tasting so the horse will eat it to keep his gut moving. A horse is not a ruminant, it can not cough up garbage and survive. The professional horse people know this, the rookies don't. Horse people are often hobbyist that are long on reading but short on practical reality ,,just like many many boat owners and arm chair hunters.
> 
> Some horse owners will feed a little Alfalfa to nursing broodmares or poor keeper race horses.
> There is a growing market for good tasting but low protein hay for fat horses that don't need to get fatter.
> ...


Good points!

I especially like "long on reading but short on practical reality."

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Like anything else, some horse folks are more tolerable than others. You just have to kind of "weed" through them. For myself, one of the best things that I have ever done was put a 100 bale minimum on hay purchases. That cut out a lot of one on one dealings and seemed to improve customer relations immensely. It seems that I am now dealing with a more stable buyer when you put that type of financial requirement on transactions. I know that this will not work in all instances, but it has fit my operation quite well.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

This hay shortage we had showed me some of the worst in horse hay customers - most of which didn't buy at all. Most folks that did buy were great, but I had more than an handful that were nuts. We're pretty easy to get along with and bend over backwards (within reason) to accommodate a customer, but after dealing with some of the more goofy horse customers we had this year, I can understand why some of my competitors around have a very hard nose when it comes to horse customers and surely enjoyed the heck out of sticking it to them from a price standpoint this year - LOL.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Just to give you an idea of horse people's ignorance, Purina just introduced "carb conscious" treats for horses.

I guess they saw my statement that most horses are overfed, overweight and under-utilized.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> I guess they saw my statement that most horses are overfed, overweight and under-utilized.
> 
> Ralph


. Not the case to the people I sell hay to. lol


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## sprout (Jan 1, 2018)

When we used to advertise on CL, the first thing most will ask is how many do you have. I started answering 3000, would you like them all? Most of the time they were only looking for 5 or 10. You guys are right, they are usually looking for what you don't have. HAHA


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

sprout said:


> When we used to advertise on CL, the first thing most will ask is how many do you have. I started answering 3000, would you like them all? Most of the time they were only looking for 5 or 10. You guys are right, they are usually looking for what you don't have. HAHA


 I get on easy when people wanna know how much of this you have and how much of that you have. . The only people we that on the farm to pick up hay or straw are those that we know well. . Anyone else we have to deliver it..


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## Buford (Oct 12, 2016)

I'm with my friend Edd. I am horse people and I am hay people. And hooo boy what a great thread!

I mean, I never EVER met a cheap ass farmer. They're all so generous and kind with their money. Never met one who would whittle down some sorry, broke down 50 year olds to load hay for $10 hour because he could. Never met one who would find a bunch of abandoned roll bales and rebale them to screw the horse people. Never met one who sold moldy hay either. Never.

Oh yeah...I have met that guy. I've met him 20 times.

Horse people and hay people are both cross sections of society. Same percentage of good, bad, honest, drunk, wife beater etc. For every picky ass horse ahole there's a crook hay seller who screwed them in the past. Simple math. Lighten up.

That said, my occasional customers want soft, less than mature, properly cured grass hay. And that's what I feed to my 22 head. If they aren't racing or nursing, nobody wants alfalfa here.


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