# JD 3010 Roosa Master Injection pump... missing spring....



## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

I just got the injection pump back from the shop, never took one off before...read the service manual I have on removal seemed straight forward but now I read on re-instalation there is supposed to be a spring #F1942R(PART# I looked it up) down in there. I never saw a spring, could it be there never was one since I owned the tractor since 1993 or did it fall down inside... into the oil pan? I'm not sure the openings are big enough for it to fall in there or not. If it did I suppose I should take the pan down, I tried a magnet but it didn't get anything, not even any steel shavings. Does anybody have any experience with this spring, is it possible it fell down into the pan when I lifted the pump out?

Also the manual say to set the engine at 10 but the pump repair guy says he thinks it should be TDC....???


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

There should a spring there, it keeps the pump drive shaft from walking out. Never done a Deere but other brands there is something, a spring or spring and button type setup.

10* BTDC sounds about right.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

stack em up said:


> There should a spring there, it keeps the pump drive shaft from walking out. Never done a Deere but other brands there is something, a spring or spring and button type setup.
> 
> 10* BTDC sounds about right.


There's definitely supposed to be spring, I ordered one from my JD dealer. After my post I did more googling and came across an old post on another forum where someone who seemed to have experience with these wrote that they'd seen a lot of springs missing and even gave the spring specs. said they had used some from the hardware store.... well I'll be getting the JD spring but from the specs given it's smaller than I thought. I'm certain the pump has been off the tractor before I got it so I guess the spring was never there when I removed the pump. Seems unlikely now it could have fallen into the engine....

Yeah I'm going to set it at 10 degrees that's what my manual says for 3010s I think it says 3020s need to be TDC.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

So I got the spring and there was a tag on the IP saying to clean the return line out before starting. So I took the return line right off and blew it all out with air, didn't seem to be blocked anywhere. Put everything on, got fuel going to the Injection Pump but still no fuel going to the injectors, took the banjo bolt right off on one of the ports on the pump and no fuel at all coming out when I turn it over. Thought maybe it just takes a while for the pump to fill up with fuel air in there or whatever but still no fuel coming out. It's actually worse than before at least before there was a little fuel enough for smoke to come out of the exhaust pipe seemed to almost start. Spent over $600 to get the IP fixed, the guy said it should work for me now. I'm assuming they tested on a machine? What else could be wrong, if the pump is turning it should pump fuel if there's nothing wrong with it no?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Pump would have been run on a test stand. My advice is to make sure you have good flow out of the tank up to the pump, then only loosen the fittings on the injectors to bleed air out. Taking any other fittings loose is still introducing air into the pump


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Make sure to bleed out the filters with the hand pump on the transfer pump. If the pump isn't moving fuel bump the engine a bit to move the cam so the transfer pump isn't already mid stroke. Fuel in tank, fuel turned on, inlet line at injection pump should have fuel when moving hand pump after filters bled out.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

A little air pressure on fuel tank might help ensuring no air all the way to pump, if you have cracked the line at pump.

Might possibly be a worthless thought on my part.

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Do you have hand throttle set at least 1/2 way down?


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Do you have hand throttle set at least 1/2 way down?


Yep, Past experience tells me I always need to do that.

Headed out soon to try again...had the batteries charging overnight, wasn't turning over that great yesterday afternoon. I put a new lift pump on it before I concluded it must be the IP. Tried the air in the tank method also before I had the IP repaired, seemed to help a little then so maybe I'll try that again it still not starting. The tractor was starting great last fall last time I used it but I think I remember a few instances where it acted like it was running out of fuel for a short time when there was apparently enough fuel in the tank.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

It's a 3010 put it in sixth gear and pull it around get a neighbor what ever you have to do. That's how we get stubborn old tractors to start around here. Another thing I have done is put a pressure gauge in after fuel filter. It wouldn't be the first time a new lift pump was junk.

Shine a flashlight in the tank also we have had issues with stuff being in the tank that should not have been in there.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> It's a 3010 put it in sixth gear and pull it around get a neighbor what ever you have to do. That's how we get stubborn old tractors to start around here. Another thing I have done is put a pressure gauge in after fuel filter. It wouldn't be the first time a new lift pump was junk.
> 
> Shine a flashlight in the tank also we have had issues with stuff being in the tank that should not have been in there.


I'm definitely will try pulling it if it won't start soon. The lift pump I replaced was only two years old, got that one from my JD dealer this newest one I got off ebay different style was really cheap though. I unhooked the line right where it goes into the IP and turned it over for 5 seconds and collected about 1/4 cup of fuel. Don't know if that sounds like enough or not. The pressure gauge sounds like a good idea what should the pressure be? I'm sure I don't have a gauge handy though I'd have to get one.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Finally got fuel going to the injectors and it started, ran for 30 seconds or so and then I heard a noise not real loud like a click and then the engine shut off right away. Was worried something may have broke in the engine but it turns over as before no noises but the IP stopped pumping fuel to the injectors again. Spent some time trying to get fuel to the injectors again but a T Storm rolled in and I had to quit.

One thing that confuses me is why the return line is always full of fuel but not the injector supply lines? Also I read online about a glass check ball in the return line fitting? I took it off to confirm there is no glass ball in there. Could the absence of said ball be causing problems?


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I would check fuel lines. We had a track loader that would lack power or sometimes shut off. Then we would blow air back through line to tank. Sometimes it would run for a month other times screw up 3 times a day. I’m not an engine guy so I’m just guessing.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Green Fields said:


> Finally got fuel going to the injectors and it started, ran for 30 seconds or so and then I heard a noise not real loud like a click and then the engine shut off I took it off to confirm there is no glass ball in there. Could the absence of said ball be causing problems?


Absence of glass check ball will not keep IP from pumping fuel. Many yrs back I had a customer operate a 4020 with glass check ball removed for a long period of time. Check ball is designed to keep a small amount of fuel in IP housing for cooling/lubrication purposes.

Have you attempted tow starting? I once owned a Ford 3000 that when it ran out diesel that I could bleed fuel system for a extended period of time & still wouldn't start. Then I get MAD then tow it & engine would start running in a very short distance

I will suggest to remove IP timing window then rotate engine to be sure IP driveshaft is turning pump rotor.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I will suggest to remove IP timing window then rotate engine to be sure IP driveshaft is turning pump rotor.


The drive shaft is not turning, I have the IP off again. So that noise I heard was apparently something breaking in the IP. So now I guess the question is what went wrong?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sounds as if head & rotor in IP seized breaking the shaft. My guess is pump was not repaired correctly OR there was some foreign material in the fuel.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Sounds as if head & rotor in IP seized breaking the shaft. My guess is pump was not repaired correctly OR there was some foreign material in the fuel.


After doing some googling pretty much find what you said but also something about the throttle being held all the way open to hold something in place before installing. There was a wire holding the throttle all the way open but I wish he would've told me to keep it three until I got the pump set on the tractor.I had no idea why that wire was there I just knew it had to come off eventually. Nothing the service manual mentioned anything about that either.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

Got the IP back on and the tractor started and it seems to be running good. I have it set at 10 degrees before top dead center so that must be right since it's running nice. Seems what happened was I didn't have the pump set down in there exactly right and ended up drawing it down with the nuts too much. I have to say it's tricky getting it in the right place. Took some jiggling to get it right but once I got it right I only needed to turn the nuts with a wrench about *1 1/2 turns* before they tightened up. The IP shop guy had a used shaft and didn't charge me for labor lots of other new parts though so the IP is pretty well rebuilt now. Some of the things I learned I'm going to note in case it helps someone else or I have to do it again down the road and forget....

*Remove the IP inspection plate and line up the two lines before taking it off so you won't have to find the compression stroke for No.1 cylinder later. Of course that won't work if the IP shaft is broken or something else is broken so that the IP isn't turning. I found the compression stroke on no.1 cylinder by removing the valve cover turning the engine with a large screw driver at the ring gear until the 10 degree mark on the flywheel is lined up and checking to see if the the rocker arms for no.1 are* not* tight then you know it's on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. Maybe there's other ways but that's what I found online. Then you line up the two lines on the IP when installing and it should be right.

* Don't remove the wire holding the throttle open on the IP until it is installed on the tractor.

*The 3010s don't have the glass ball check in the return line fitting apparently that's the 3020s.

* Clean out the return line before installing the IP.

* Very important don't draw the IP down with the nuts, should only need to turn the nuts about 1 1/2 turns before they tighten up.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Green Fields said:


> *The 3010s don't have the glass ball check in the return line fitting apparently that's the 3020s.


After researching JD parts it appears 3020/4020 tractors began having check valve in IP fuel return line fitting with the introduction of pencil type injectors


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## dieselmike (Feb 24, 2018)

The old 3010's didn't have an advance so they were timed at 10 degrees. It's usually recommended to update the old 3010 pumps to the 3020 variation as the advance allows them to run better. The check ball in the return can be removed... It was designed to keep the fuel viscosity at a even par and really serves no purpose. The 3010 has the driveshaft held in the pump. When the shaft stays in place there is no need to wire the throttle in the wide open position. No drive shaft and the governor weights can fall out when installing. Wiring the throttle back holds the weights in. If the weight s fall out the head will seize almost immediately.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mike

Although I agree engine can operate with check ball removed the check ball was designed to keep some amount of fuel in pump housing for cooling/lubrication.

Please explain how check ball presence or absence can affect "fuel viscosity" as I never heard that before today.Thank you,Jim


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## dieselmike (Feb 24, 2018)

Sinc



Tx Jim said:


> Mike
> 
> Although I agree engine can operate with check ball removed the check ball was designed to keep some amount of fuel in pump housing for cooling/lubrication.
> 
> Please explain how check ball presence or absence can affect "fuel viscosity" as I never heard that before today.Thank you,Jim


There is always fuel in the pump even if you mounted the tank below the I.P. (Notice the return is at the top not the bottom. It;s not a true check valve either as there a very small indention to let the air out , like on a filter change... By holding the fuel "back" the fuel stabilizes the IP temp (Hotter). I didn't design it, just what I was taught in school. Most run better without it and it's better on the seals as there is no pressure on them so you have less leaks Personally I think it was designed so the IP would fail sooner


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks for your explanation but I still fail to understand how the fitting alters fuel viscosity,

I haven't attended any inj pump schools BUT that fitting was called a check valve back in mid 70's the 1st time I saw one plugged with debris & I guess the title just stuck in my mind.


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## dieselmike (Feb 24, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> Thanks for your explanation but I still fail to understand how the fitting alters fuel viscosity,
> 
> I haven't attended any inj pump schools BUT that fitting was called a check valve back in mid 70's the 1st time I saw one plugged with debris & I guess the title just stuck in my mind.


Actually the "check valve" is called a Connector. As a side note they did make a check valve for the 6.5l GM Diesel. It had an O'ring inside to seal it when closed.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

You just had to bring back some old memories of the GM 6.5L. I owned a 2000 model that I thought the IP quirks had been solved! As you probably know I was WRONG!! I relocated the IP driver module out under frt bumper in an attempt to keep engine running in the Texas Summer heat


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