# Fertilizer mix for bermuda midland99



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

I am wondering what granular fertilizer mix would be good for me to try this year. I think it is recomandation to use 4 1 2 percemt fertilizer for hybrid bermuda (midland99) and it looks like that is correct to keep my soil levels in the optimal level based on the last few years of soil test. So with that being said what would the best mix be to keep everything in that optimal level. And what works best for you that have hybrid bermuda hay.


----------



## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't use a particular percent formulation on my hybrids. I get what I need based on how many pounds per acre I need. I will tell you that I find I get the best response when I apply just as much potash as nitrogen to hybrid Bermuda. Conventional wisdom says different, I know, but that's what it responds to, especially in a dry year. It also likes some Sulphur too based on my observations. Typically, we'll put at least 400lbs.nitrogen/a/yr, 200lbs. phosphorus/a/yr, and 400lbs. potash/a/yr occasionally adjusting it depending on tissue samples. Darn stuff LOVES fertilizer!

Steve


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

dubltrubl said:


> I don't use a particular percent formulation on my hybrids. I get what I need based on how many pounds per acre I need. I will tell you that I find I get the best response when I apply just as much potash as nitrogen to hybrid Bermuda. Conventional wisdom says different, I know, but that's what it responds to, especially in a dry year. It also likes some Sulphur too based on my observations. Typically, we'll put at least 400lbs.nitrogen/a/yr, 200lbs. phosphorus/a/yr, and 400lbs. potash/a/yr occasionally adjusting it depending on tissue samples. Darn stuff LOVES fertilizer!
> Steve


How many cuttings do you get and how much do you try to put out after each cutting? I am starting to beleve also that the hybrids use potash as much as nitrogent so maybe I need to up it a little more for this year.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ranger518 said:


> How many cuttings do you get and how much do you try to put out after each cutting? I am starting to beleve also that the hybrids use potash as much as nitrogent so maybe I need to up it a little more for this year.


Same as dubltrbl here, usually a 100upa of N and 60-100upa of K depending on what my pocketbook can afford right then....
We usually get 4 cuttings around 2 tons to the acre on good cuts, more with plenty of rain, less with little rain.....without the K the field will suffer and during an extended drought, the field could be lost....without a doubt the biggest reason for stand loss. Hth


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

I take it you guys are giving actual amounts. So I use urea 46-0-0 as my nitrogent source so I would need to put on 210 pounds of urea to get 100 pounds of nitrogent. And I use potash which is I think 0-0-50 so I would need to use 200 pounds of potash to get 100 pounds if K. That is if I was spreading 100 pounds of actual N and 100 pounds of K per acer.


----------



## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

In conversations with the OSU agronomist for our area, he told me that Bermuda hay would remove 50 lbs of potash per ton of hay, and that plants would go into a "luxury consumption" of potash when they used what they needed. In other words when they use what they need they plant would continue to use potash as long as some was there for it to use even though it was not needed for that cutting. Now keeping that in mind, potassium chloride in large amounts is toxic to plants and soil life in large amounts, the potassium is alright it's the chlorine that isn't. He doesn't recommend over 100 lbs per application. It's best to add some with split applications of nitrogen. And Dubltrubl is right, Bermuda loves Sulphur, if you can get your hands on ammonium sulfate you will be money ahead. Take all this for what it's worth, it's just what I've been told. A neighbor of mine who uses a vast amount of litter and liquid nitrogen on his 800 acres of Bermuda said he gets 11 bale ( 5x6 or 3x3 square) per acre per year however it took 9 to pay the fertilizer bill. For us common folk unless your pockets go all the way to your ankles, it's a matter of dollars and sense.


----------



## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Previously, I had been saying that hybrid bermudagrass needed a 4-1-4 ratio of N-P2O5-K2 O. The latest research from scientists with USDA-ARS and the University of Georgia indicated a 4-1-5 ratio. They stated that "Tifton 85 yields began to level off at the 500 lb/ac N application rate (not all applied at once, but split over several cuttings.) The most economical return was achieved at rates of 200 to 400 lb of N/ac with 100% replacement of phosphorus and potassium from previous harvests."

To interpret, one must remember that urea is 46% N. Urea ammonium nitrate is 32% N. Ammonium nitrate is 34% N. So, to apply 300 lb of N per acre during the season will need to apply 650 lb of urea. In plant analysis, the amount of phosphorus (P) in the plant is reported as elemental P. But in fertilizer, the phosphorus is reported as P2O5 . The amount of P in P2O5 is 44%. If we want to replace P removed by the previous harvest we need to increase the P2O5 rate by 2.27 (100/44). Similarly for K2O, that contains 83% K, we need to increase the K2 O rate by 1.20 (100/83).

Consider that Midland bermudagrass contains 3% N, 0.3% P and 2% K (reported in soil testing and plant analysis literature) and we want to apply 100 lb of N/ac per cutting for three harvests, we would apply, using urea, 217 lb of urea per cutting. If the previous harvest yielded 2 tons of hay/ac, that hay would contain 12 lb of P and we would need to apply about 27 lb of P2O5 to replace that amount of P removed. The replacement K needed would be 80 lb/ac, but applied as K2 O, we would need to apply 96 lb of K2O/ac. These amounts (100-27-96) come very close to a 4-1-4 ratio of N, P2O5, and K2 O.

We need to remember that not all the N, P2O5, and K2 O applied to the soil will be readily available to the plant. Therefore, it is usually best to fertilize according to suggested rates of N, P2O5, and K2 O made based on soil analysis by a reputable testing lab.


----------



## reede (May 17, 2010)

Vincent,

This is a little bit off topic, but why is K2O used to figure fertilizer K, when it doesn't exist in a fertilizer? We can use KCl, which is 60% K, or K2SO4.

So, the fact that you figure out how much K is in the fertilizer, and then have to turn it in to K2O has always seemed somewhat stupid to me. Is there a good reason for using that?

Reed


----------



## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Reed,

You are asking a question that has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. One answer that I can come up with is that by showing the percentage K2 O in the fertilizer blend or bag, the fertilizer industry wants to make us think that we are getting more for our $ spent on fertilizer. The 60 in 0-0-60 actually represents the percentage K2 O. You are correct that the potash in fertilizer blends usually is KCl, and if requested, can be K2SO4 at a greater cost. However, the percentage K in KCl is 52.448% and the Cl percentage is 47.555%. If the fertilizer industry would show the amount of K in the blend or bag, they would have to show 52% (as 0-0-52) instead of 60% (as 0-0-60.)

From NDSU, http://broome.soil.ncsu.edu/ssc051/Lec8.htm

"In earlier times, before current lab instrumentation was developed, chemists used a gravimetric (weighing) method after ignition to determined the phosphorus and potassium content of fertilizers in the form of phosphorus oxide (P2O5) and potassium oxide (K2O). By convention, the amounts (or analysis grade) of phosphorus and potassium in fertilizers are still expressed in this oxide form. The Association of American Plant Food Control officials have developed a uniform state fertilizer bill which says that available P2O5 and soluble K2O must be guaranteed by the manufacturer and so the guaranteed analysis must still be expressed in the oxide form."

Vincent


----------



## reede (May 17, 2010)

Thank you very much, Vincent.

Reed


----------



## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Ranger,

We see results much like Dawg describes, however, we rarely get a 4th cut, mainly due to the way I work. If we think a 4th cut is possible on a field, we may even back off of the N some, (approx. to 75lb/ac). My thoughts on this are, that if mother nature won't co-operate, then the P & K will benefit the stand going into the winter and the $'s are at least giving us some return. For our part of the country I rarely cut after ~ 10/15. Just too risky from my perspective. That being said, I've cut as late a 12/1. BTW, I've always regretted it. For the most part with the previously stated fertility and doing your part on weed control and adequate moisture, you can expect ~ 2 ton/ac @ ~ 12% crude protein if cut on time. Cut past prime, all bets are off.

Regards,

Steve


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ranger518 said:


> I take it you guys are giving actual amounts. So I use urea 46-0-0 as my nitrogent source so I would need to put on 210 pounds of urea to get 100 pounds of nitrogent. And I use potash which is I think 0-0-50 so I would need to use 200 pounds of potash to get 100 pounds if K. That is if I was spreading 100 pounds of actual N and 100 pounds of K per acer.


Yes, you are correct....actual (or "units" as we backward folks call it) N,K per acre....clarification is always needed on this "southern ******* unit of measure"


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Well I got my fertilizer spread today by looking at my soil test and how much fertilizer everybody recommends to put on hybrid Bermuda. My fertilizer people recommended a mix of 22-11-22 at a rate of 450lb a acer it is 170lb of UREA 110lb of DAP and 170lb of pot ash to the acer. Pretty pricey but I going to give it a try this year And soil test again this winter and see if I need to cut back on anything or add and adjust for next season. Does this sound like a good idea? I should get 4 maybe 5 cuttings this year should I use this same blend after every cutting?


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ranger518 said:


> Well I got my fertilizer spread today by looking at my soil test and how much fertilizer everybody recommends to put on hybrid Bermuda. My fertilizer people recommended a mix of 22-11-22 at a rate of 450lb a acer it is 170lb of UREA 110lb of DAP and 170lb of pot ash to the acer. Pretty pricey but I going to give it a try this year And soil test again this winter and see if I need to cut back on anything or add and adjust for next season. Does this sound like a good idea? I should get 4 maybe 5 cuttings this year should I use this same blend after every cutting?


What was your total cost per acre to spread, also what was the ph? I'll tell you this, you have to try to be in it for the long haul, it's painful but the benefits will offset the pain....so, yes I would use use the same "blend" if that's what your recommendations would be, perhaps late in the season...last cutting, I may only lay down N, maybe 60-80units or so just in case.....here that is before August. 
Like you said, adjust based on tests next year. It'll pay dividends, just not a lot....after all, it is the hay business we're talking about.....


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

somedevildawg said:


> What was your total cost per acre to spread, also what was the ph? I'll tell you this, you have to try to be in it for the long haul, it's painful but the benefits will offset the pain....so, yes I would use use the same "blend" if that's what your recommendations would be, perhaps late in the season...last cutting, I may only lay down N, maybe 60-80units or so just in case.....here that is before August.
> Like you said, adjust based on tests next year. It'll pay dividends, just not a lot....after all, it is the hay business we're talking about.....


My ph is 6.6. Yes it is painfull at $88.00 a acre if it pays off I guess I will be ok with it as this is about doubble what I used last year and I was verry happy with the tonnage I got but this year soil test showed that it was in the low level on k and medium on p when last year they both were in optimal levels before I got started.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Perfect....stay the course. Next year will see marked improvement as will this year.


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Thanks guys for confirming what I was doing was a good idea to do. Just seams like a lot of fertlizer but this is the first hybrid bermuda I have delt with and wanted to make sure I was headed in the right direction.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ranger518 said:


> Well I got my fertilizer spread today by looking at my soil test and how much fertilizer everybody recommends to put on hybrid Bermuda. My fertilizer people recommended a mix of 22-11-22 at a rate of 450lb a acer it is 170lb of UREA 110lb of DAP and 170lb of pot ash to the acer. Pretty pricey but I going to give it a try this year And soil test again this winter and see if I need to cut back on anything or add and adjust for next season. Does this sound like a good idea? I should get 4 maybe 5 cuttings this year should I use this same blend after every cutting?


May I ask how many bales(tons of hay) per did you harvest last year on 1/2 the amount of fert per acre?


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> May I ask how many bales(tons of hay) per did you harvest last year on 1/2 the amount of fert per acre?


It was sprigged on 5-8-17 I fertlized it only twice, bushed hogged it 3 times and in September I cut it for hay about 45 days after the last time I bushed hogged it do to weather so i round baled it and it made 5 5x4 tight bales to the acre.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

That's very good production for my area. Why bush hog it 3 times instead of cutting for hay maybe not enough forage to make good bales?


----------



## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> That's very good production for my area. Why bush hog it 3 times instead of cutting for hay maybe not enough forage to make good bales?


The first 2 times I mowed it it woul of not been much but the 3rd time would of been ok. Everybody told me around here to get a good stand to just mow it down the first year and not take hay off of it untill the last cut of the season.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ranger518 said:


> The first 2 times I mowed it it woul of not been much but the 3rd time would of been ok. Everybody told me around here to get a good stand to just mow it down the first year and not take hay off of it untill the last cut of the season.


That's not a bad practice if you can stand it....


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Does leaving chopped grass from bush hogging conserve nutrients over baling hay? I can visualize how bush hogging might conserve soil moisture by shading the soil.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Does leaving chopped grass from bush hogging conserve nutrients over baling hay? I can visualize how bush hogging might conserve soil moisture by shading the soil.


I'm no scientist Jim, far from it , but from attending various seminars I'm convinced that the best way to renovate a field is to continually mow (maybe 5-6 times a season) and return the dry matter to the field for decomposition. I have to believe that K would be the best nutrient to be recovered/saved by not removing the crop for the first year. It could probably be offset with copious applications of K but it's kinda pricey vs the weedy hay one might experience on a first year reclamation. My thoughts, but I would continue to add NPK throughout the year.....


----------



## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

The man that sprigged my fields said one way to help the stand was to bush hog whenever there was enough sticking up to mow. He said that every time you cut Bermuda it makes it spread.


----------



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

So yallapplythe whole seasons worthof fertilizer in one application? I have always do a little at a time. That way if i dont catch a rain i loose less. Also little a time the plants seem to take it up better????


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

StxPecans said:


> So yallapplythe whole seasons worthof fertilizer in one application? I have always do a little at a time. That way if i dont catch a rain i loose less. Also little a time the plants seem to take it up better????


No, usually 3-4 apps a season, after each cutting and before the first.....the last, depending on when it comes off, may not get an application of NPK, just a shot of N.....


----------

