# Hay vs. row crops



## Goatman

Just wondering what you guys thought would be more profitable; hay or row crops such as corn and soybeans? I am still a student so making hay is great as I have summers off. However, if I can make more money planting row crops I would rather do that.


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## haybaler101

Unless you have the worst dirt in Iowa, it will be a no-brainer this year to go with row crops. Next year may be a different story. Right now, my crop budgets for variable inputs including land rent are Corn @ $562, Beans @ $314, and Alfalfa @ $525 per acre. Average yields are corn 160 bu, beans 48 bu, and alfalfa 4.5 ton per acre. These numbers give return over variable cost @ $278 for corn, $262 for beans, and $150 for alfalfa @ the following prices corn=$5.25, beans $12.00, and alfalfa $150 per ton. If corn moves higher, have some decent alfalfa stands that are going under this year. Just a side not, corn and beans have 70% RA coverage at those yields also, alfalfa is all my gamble.


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## mlappin

haybaler, my numbers aren't that high for hay production and I'm wondering how much your rents are down there? Of course a lot of my hay ground is either fields too small for the bigger guys or even us to mess with for row crops, too drought prone for row crops, or the landowner wants hay on it. I even have one that I picked up last year, when we sat down to fill the lease out he didn't want me to put an end date on the lease as he said it's mine for as long as I want it with the stipulation that commercial fertilizer is fine but no herbicides or insecticides are to be used.

Another lady doesn't want corn next to her house as she hates all that fodder blowing in her yard in the fall. I even have two that were given to me, the owners reasoning being if I didn't make hay off it, they'd just have to keep it mowed. Both were highly erodible land that used to be pasture, I filled in a few rough spots, rented a big roller to help smooth them out, then no-tilled em to alfalfa. So in a nutshell my rents run from nothing per acre to $80/acre.


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## haybaler101

I have $140/acre for rent and that is on the cheap side here. Also figuring 1/4 of seed cost (plan on a 4 year stand) maintenance fertilizer and lime, 2 applications of insecticide, one of herbicide, inoculant on hay, repairs and plenty for fuel. Yeah, I have ground that looks a lot different between corn and hay. Hay will be much better alternative here because corn will average closer to 100 bu. Previous figures were for my better dirt that I have had alfalfa in the rotation on.


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## swmnhay

Goatman said:


> Just wondering what you guys thought would be more profitable; hay or row crops such as corn and soybeans? I am still a student so making hay is great as I have summers off. However, if I can make more money planting row crops I would rather do that.


I think the sure thing would be row crops this yr.But a lot of variables.The big thing is what is your hay market and the going price?


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## mlappin

Strange, 140/acre for 100 bushel corn ground? We have one farm that we pay $150 for, 180 acres total, part of it even has 3/4 mile long rows, averaged almost 190 dry bushels on it last year. Our county the average is around 140 bushel corn, county south of us is around 130, county southeast of us just broke a 100 bushels a few years ago. The county southeast of us has two soil types it seems, low wet muck that has to be pattern tiled and have drainage pumps or blow sand that has to be irrigated or it burns up first time it doesn't rain for a week.

Have some seed corn/vegetable guys around as well. My friends parents just rented them their two hundred acres for $500/acre with a ten year lease. The guy is going to install all new pivots and will be getting either two crops a year of cucumbers or green beans off it.

I've gotten real lucky up here, been at least three years since I've had to spray for weevil or leaf hoppers. Can't say I've ever sprayed for weeds in hay. Gets a little weedy and I always have guys who are looking for beef cow hay, I also have at least 60 of my own garbage disposals on the farm. If weeds are a consistent problem, it gets sprayed in the fall with 2-4d and roundup, again in the spring, then no-tilled to corn.


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## ROLLNITUP

I want to plant row crops to but have newer hay equipment and have worked hard to get hay buyers. Dont want to lose them. I think this row crop think will be a quick up and in the long run the hay will be good again. took me a lot of years to get loyal customers. The hay is going to have to go up or i tell them ill plant corn and beans and take the rest of the summer off to.


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## swmnhay

ROLLNITUP said:


> I want to plant row crops to but have newer hay equipment and have worked hard to get hay buyers. Dont want to lose them. I think this row crop think will be a quick up and in the long run the hay will be good again. took me a lot of years to get loyal customers. The hay is going to have to go up or i tell them ill plant corn and beans and take the rest of the summer off to.


Same here,Newer line of hay eq.

Worked hard also to get customers but also been dropped after yrs of selling to them because someone undercuts me or a change in ration.

Hay will go up because there isn't going to be any!

Looks like more corn here this yr.Maybe have a little time to get boat out and go fishing.


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## haybaler101

[quote name='mlappin']Strange, 140/acre for 100 bushel corn ground? QUOTE]

I pay $140/acre for the 160 bu. average that made 180 to 200 each of the last 3 years. Trying to keep landlords happy and give some pay raises because the land hogs are taking the same dirt to $300 plus/acre this year. Fortunately I have good landlords. 100 bu. corn ground has a much sweeter deal yet, it is high risk ground and rented on shares so the landlord feels the pain and pleasures too. I spray after 2nd or 3rd cutting on pure alfalfa to kill fall panicum and other grasses. Spray usually 2 to 3 times for leaf hoppers, if I don't yield is cut drastically. Haven't sprayed for weevils for a long time.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> I spray after 2nd or 3rd cutting on pure alfalfa to kill fall panicum and other grasses. Spray usually 2 to 3 times for leaf hoppers, if I don't yield is cut drastically. Haven't sprayed for weevils for a long time.


I wondered if you weren't just far enough south that the winters weren't hard enough to break the weed cycle. I hear yah about the land hogs. Thing is unless you're the best marketeer on the planet and can always buy your inputs at the lowest price possible and always hit the highs on selling your crops, some of the land I'm renting just doesn't pencil out for anyone to pay more. But we do have several in the area that are in a pissing match with a competitor to see who can get the biggest the fastest no matter the cost.

I also have a lot of good landlords, and I also keep cheat sheets on em. Before I go talk to em I check the cheat sheet so I remember to ask how the youngest kid is doing in college, how the other kid is doing at their new job, how their first grandchild is doing, etc. Have one lady that about 4 other guys are trying to rent it out from under us, but she knows the bigger guys most likely won't stop in to help her fix fence in the middle of the weekend, mow her hay for her if her mowers broke, or come down and fill the hay feeders if their gone for a few days. Being a good neighbor goes a long ways to help keep ground. Also went around to the landlords who never farmed themselves and explained the advantages of no-till before we went a hundred percent no-till and also explained that a little more patience is needed and we might not get to it as fast while waiting for it to dry a little more compared to the guy across the road who might be full tillage yet or just mudding his in.


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## swmnhay

Today I can contract new crop corn @ $5.63 So what to do?

190 X $5.63 = $1069
seed 100
fert 150
chem 25
Ins 15
mach & fuel 110
land 300

NET $359

Established alfalfa
seed 0
fert 150
ins 10
mach & fuel 200
land 300

total costs $650 acre 
profit to equal 359
corn _____
$959 @ 5.5 ton I need $175 a ton to compete with corn TODAY
5 ton $191

Looks like I might have to order more seed corn.


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## tnwalkingred

I work a full time job in the telecommunications field and only do hay on the side. However I got into doing my own hay because I raise horses and am hopefully getting into the cattle business this winter. It's cheaper for me to raise my own hay than to buy it. Around here you can normally find decent hay ground to cut for free as there are alot of people who do not want to pay to keep it clean. We also have lots of land of our own that is fitting for hay but not so much for other crops because it is a little hilly or in such small patches. Plus the equipment costs to get into hay are cheaper in my opinion as opposed to raising a crop that must be combined. All that added with the fact that while I know VERY little about hay I know absolutely NOTHING about raising corns or beans is why I'm sticking with the hay businesss! LOL

Kyle


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## haybaler101

I hear you swmn, new-crop just under $6.00 here after limit up day on the board. Market experts said could be limit up again tomorrow. Got about 50 acres of alfalfa riding on this fence. Kind of looks like it might see the disk tomorrow.


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## Goatman

Its good to hear your thoughts on this. As of right now, row crops are the way to go. Do you guys see a spike in hay prices after this year because of the amount of hay ground that is getting torn up?


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## swmnhay

Goatman said:


> Its good to hear your thoughts on this. As of right now, row crops are the way to go. Do you guys see a spike in hay prices after this year because of the amount of hay ground that is getting torn up?


Definatly see hay prices going up.It just seems to be lagging HERE.Top dairy hay at auction is only bringing 120 a ton HERE.Looks like other places have seen increases allready but not much HERE.I heard of dairy hay in Califonia at $325.

I can lock in corn and be insured a profit.Or make hay and hope it goes up.


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## Beach Farmer

I've been in contact with a few of the regional brokers and auctioneers over the winter here and the common thing I've been hearing is a guarded optimism toward prices for the coming year. That makes me a little concerned that there may be a little more risk to the price going up than we've seen in the past. It makes sense though, with fewer animals, even if you have less premium material, you may not need it all.

I struggle to pull too much out just because of the lag to get a new stand established. One, because I've got established customers who take what we get put up. And two, I've got landlords who want alfalfa on their property with little regard to the cost. It helps me spread the operating costs out and it is still profitable for me so I can go either way. There's something to be said for consistency but you sure don't want to be leaving too much on the table when you walk away.

All I can say is the conditions may seem like we've been here before but underneath we're in uncharted waters.


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