# Acid Applicator on Big Round Baler



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I was talking to my NH dealer the other day and he said he had a Harvestec acid applicator for a NH BR780A that he had ordered for another customer and had been stuck with it. He offered it to me at a pretty good price.

I was wondering if anybody has used acid on their BR bales and how it worked? I use it on my sm squares and been happy with it.

My concern with this unit is that the 55 gal. tank sits in front of the belts and I wouldn't be able to see the belts! I have to watch the belts pretty carefully when starting a bale going across a hillside--the belts will want to roll over one another.

I am tempted to buy this unit because I am sure that just having it will change the weather to the point that I will never need it! 

On the serious side, I'm thinking that if I apply about 4lbs/tn as I am baling, I might be able to stack them immediately and not have to worry about them sweating the first two weeks.

Thoughts?

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

You could mount the tank elsewhere.Front or side of tractor???


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> You could mount the tank elsewhere.Front or side of tractor???


From what I've seen on their web site, the BMP and pumps mount on the back of the mounting unit for the tank. I have thought about having a tank fabricated that would be low and flat so that I could at least see the top of all belts. I don't see how I could mount the tank on the tractor. (doesn't mean it can't be done--I just don't see how.)

I was wondering if anybody else had used this on a round baler and, if so, what their experiences were? Is it worth $4K? I see many people with big squares have one mounted, but the moisture requirements are tighter with big squares.

I like to let my big rounds sweat about two weeks before I stack them, just to avoid any heating problems. Last year, with the rain every 4-5 days, I couldn't get them dry enough to stack until almost October. I'm thinking (hoping) that I could stack them immediately if I put a couple of lbs of acid on them. 4 lbs/ton = about 2-2.5 lbs/bale = about 1/3 gallon/bale. At $6-8/gallon, this is about $2-3/bale, about the same as net wrapping.

On the surface, if my arithmetic is correct, it seems like it would be worth it. I would only have to handle them once instead of twice.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I have the automatic unit on my round baler and wouldn't bale hay without it. You could always get the 25 gallon tank and use that instead of the 55. I haven't had any problems with belts rolling so watching the belts isn't near as critical. Wish I had room for a 55 gallon tank on mine.

EDIT: Unless they are over 22-23% moisture, I stack em immediately, until I start to stack hay in the last building, I'll haul the hay that I don't want to stack right away and place em in the last building to let em breath. There is a ton of information on baling with acid out there, how much of that is just opinion and how much is actual fact is hard to decide, but I do seem to recall reading somewhere if they are treated, they shouldn't be allowed to sit on the ground any longer than required and most certainly shouldn't allowed to get rained on after baling. Think along the lines of handling large squares in the more humid parts of the country.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> Is it worth $4K?
> Ralph


You could get by for a lot less than 4K if you don't want all the bells and whistles of the automatic unit.Here is a link to another co with different options.

Dohrmann Enterprises, Inc.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Yah, cheaper units can be had, but if a person doesn't like what a surgery is going to cost here they could travel to a third world country and have it done there for 6 chickens, 2 goats and a pig, but I wouldn't suggest it. Well actually I can think of a few people I would try to get to go that route (think mother in law).

I had a cheaper unit and while it worked, I was never really happy with it, I dropped a considerable chunk of change on my automatic Harvest Tec unit and have never regretted it. It's on a second baler now and if a major software change is available, the main unit can always be shipped to Harvest Tec for an update.

Granted take the above opinion with a grain of salt, I'm very picky about making my hay to the point I limit myself to 200 acres as that's what I can comfortably mow, rake, and bale by myself so I know it's getting done exactly how I want it done.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

P.S. I apply 4lbs/ton the dry hay as well to avoid problems with sweating. If the acid can be had for the right price, it's really cheap insurance.

What size are your rows when you bale? I've never had belt problems once I started using a v-rake. I like to make the rows around 4 1/2 to 5 foot wide for a 4' wide bale. I end up with good, tight square shoulders that way. Course if you have the standard pickup on your baler this is not an option.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> You could get by for a lot less than 4K if you don't want all the bells and whistles of the automatic unit.Here is a link to another co with different options.
> 
> Dohrmann Enterprises, Inc.


It has a simple, easy to use monitor:

Mlappin, can you explain why you were never happy with-out an automatic system?
I'm considering putting one of those Dohrmann units on a baler, actually was thinking of perhaps even making a unit myself. Tank, pump, an on-off switch on a cord to the tractor and some hose, what's there to it really?

I have a Gazeeka system already and like it, but it's too big and bulky to really mount on a round baler like you guys are talking.

The round bale unit Gazeeka sells in the USA looks like it would block your view of the belts too, which would be a problem for you. 








It has a simple, easy to use monitor: (only the one monitor is for the preservative)









The Gazeeka units has two tanks, one for preservative and one for fresh water to wash your hands etc and to flush the system after use.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JoshA said:


> Mlappin, can you explain why you were never happy with-out an automatic system?


It's hard to believe until you actually witness it, but in _our_ area and in _our_ fields the actual moisture of the hay can vary up to 10%. Doesn't happen all the time but I've baled fields where the majority of it is getting close to or is at 16% while I have some areas go 26% or even higher. Granted if a person was in a area with flat to very flat ground, no trees, woods, fencelines or buildings in sight, then I could see the whole field should be the same without fail. A lot of our fields are planted to hay as they are too small or irregular shaped to make getting a 16 row planter or a 15 knife applicator bar in worth the hassle. Start to include fencerows, woods and housing developments and the hay can very greatly from one side, or one end to the other. Take in account rolling ground and the north side of a hill won't begin to get near the sunlight later in the year when the sun is lower in the sky as compared to the south facing side of the same hill.

Strangest thing I've ever encountered was when the low spots in the field were dryer than the high spots. Should have been exactly opposite, but maybe the rolling ground worked to amplify the breeze in the low spots? I've a few that are actually low enough they'll be in a shadow long before the rest of the field and may be the last spot of the field to get full sun in the mornings as well. These are some as well that are too rolling to even think about dragging a 16 row planter across. Last time around we sprayed to kill jsut the alfalfa, made it as grass hay for a few years then no-tilled alfalfa back in.

Like I said, until you actually see it, it's hard to believe and to be perfectly honest I didn't. First several times I had my hand probe and even called a cousin and he came out, pulled samples from the 10% wetter spots and came back to the farm to run microwave tests. After that I left the unit alone and let it do whatever it wanted as I quickly learned that since it takes 10's if not hundreds of samples per bale, it will be far more accurate than I can possibly be by grabbing a few hands full here and there. The few times I was absolutely certain something was defective and I tried running it manually as I thought it was reading wetter than it should, I lost the hay as it was as wet as the unit claimed it was and I didn't manually apply near enough acid.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> What size are your rows when you bale? I've never had belt problems once I started using a v-rake.


I try to make my windrows like two Twinkies laying side by side. I am now baling 56"x5' for under-tarp storage or 62"x5' for inside storage.

Like you said in your other post, my moisture can vary all over the place depending in wind speed and direction, sunlight, morning dew, etc. One area can be bone dry and down the hill can be wet enough to wash your hands.

Ralph


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

*mlappin* - Ah, I think I understand why you don't like the simple ones now... because an automatic system will adjust the amount of preservative applied based on the moisture of the hay?

As for the vast moisture variations, you don't need to convince me on that! I run the Gazeeka microwave moisture tester (the one advertised on this site) on my big square baler and I believe it to be accurate. Moistures can very over 10% in a few hundred feet of swath.

Nice thing about the Silo-Guard / Hay-Guard that I use is that it doesn't matter what moisture the hay is, application rate is 2lbs/ton at 16% moisture or 22% moisture.

I've had good luck with the Silo-Guard on my hay and will continue to use it, do you think the Dohrmann unit would be okay for that, given the flat rate of application?

Thanks,
-Josh


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JoshA said:


> *mlappin* - Ah, I think I understand why you don't like the simple ones now... because an automatic system will adjust the amount of preservative applied based on the moisture of the hay?
> -Josh


Exactly, and like you pointed out as well, it can and does change in just a few hundred feet of row.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

mlappin said:


> Exactly, and like you pointed out as well, it can and does change in just a few hundred feet of row.


So given the flat rate application of the Silo-Guard, do you think a Dohrmann unit would be adequate?

Thanks,
-Josh


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Does the dorhman unit have a moisture sensor of any kind? Just wondering as the Silo/Hayguard has an upper limit of 24-25%? Be nice to know if you have a few bales over the limit.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

[quote name='mlappin']Does the dorhman unit have a moisture sensor of any kind? QUOTE]

I don't believe they do.But I have factory installed option on my Vermeer baler at $308


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is my few cents worth: Find a way to deal with not seeing your belts, either a smaller tank, or relocating it. Having a automatic system like this is worth it if you do very much hay. Definately DO go with the automatic. 
4 lb to the ton sounds low. I think we run around double that on hay over 24%. BTW, the auto system will kick the rate up for you as the crop gets wetter.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

If you are running a NH baler with bale-command, you should not have to worry about looking at the belts any way. Make a good windrow with the rake and drive like the devil is after you with the baler. If you are driving a NH right, you ain't got time to look back anyway! I have had 688, 780, and a 780A and have never had belts crossed up once starting a bale. This ranges from straw to ditch hay to prime alfalfa to balage at 60% moisture. Usually start the bale at 6 to 7 mph and hit 8 to 10 just as fast as the powershift will allow.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

haybaler101 said:


> If you are running a NH baler with bale-command, you should not have to worry about looking at the belts any way. Make a good windrow with the rake and drive like the devil is after you with the baler. If you are driving a NH right, you ain't got time to look back anyway! I have had 688, 780, and a 780A and have never had belts crossed up once starting a bale. This ranges from straw to ditch hay to prime alfalfa to balage at 60% moisture. Usually start the bale at 6 to 7 mph and hit 8 to 10 just as fast as the powershift will allow.


Yes, that's what I thought, until last summer, when the belts got crossed as I was starting a bale running along the side of hill--broke the 2nd belt.

I bought the Harvest Tec unit yesterday with the automatic controls AND the upper belt guide for my baler.

Ralph

PS: Here's a couple of pictures of my ground--that's a 200' drop over 1200' in front of the camera--and that's the flat part!

View attachment 1098
View attachment 1097


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

What'ya doing sneaking on my property taking pictures? I have a couple that look like that, those fields make having too much tractor a necessity.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, Kinda looks like some of my ground in North Dakota. Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> What'ya doing sneaking on my property taking pictures? I have a couple that look like that, those fields make having too much tractor a necessity.


It's hard to have too much tractor around here!

I have 200 taxable acres, but 400 acres of surface area since I have both sides of the ridge. The north side is in the Illinois River valley, the south side is in the Mississippi River valley. The Miss. river is just over that hill to the east, south or west (3 sides).

Ralph


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey, no worse than here. Have custom baled some that duals were required to keep from tipping. THe worst I ever baled, had bales go end over end down the hill. Pretty impressive when they start jumping about 10 feet in the air.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

no problems like thoses here in south-eastern Ontario... she's flatter than piss on a platter. You boys can keep them hills yuk.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> no problems like thoses here in south-eastern Ontario... she's flatter than piss on a platter. You boys can keep them hills yuk.


A couple of years ago, I custom baled for a guy who has river bottom ground. I found I didn't know how to drop a bale on flat ground--spent two hours driving around to find a hillside that I could unload on.

Ralph


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

haybaler101 said:


> Hey, no worse than here. Have custom baled some that duals were required to keep from tipping. THe worst I ever baled, had bales go end over end down the hill. Pretty impressive when they start jumping about 10 feet in the air.


LOL! But a great test for the netwrap
Here in central south Ontario we have plenty of slope and trees but thankfully not too many hills like that.
Nice pics rjmoses, looks like a beautiful part of the world to live if maybe not perfect for making hay.

We have just traded up from a manual liquid applicator to a fully automatic Harvestec unit. Cutting the cheque hurts at the time but I am figuring that I should save close to full tote of acid each season. I was always a bit trigger happy with the manual system to play on the safe side. Having spoken with other auto users you soon get to trust them enough to rely on them completely. 
My biggest problem is also finding a place to mount the 55 gallon drum. Trying to keep it low to avoid having to use transfer pumps from the tote on a trailor. Has anyone got experience with mounting tanks on the front of the tractor to run these auto units? Harvestec don't like the idea as they say it will make the pumps work too hard. Any thoughts?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

MikeRF said:


> Here in central south Ontario we have plenty of slope and trees but thankfully not too many hills like that.
> Nice pics rjmoses, looks like a beautiful part of the world to live if maybe not perfect for making hay.
> .....
> My biggest problem is also finding a place to mount the 55 gallon drum. Trying to keep it low to avoid having to use transfer pumps from the tote on a trailor. Has anyone got experience with mounting tanks on the front of the tractor to run these auto units? Harvestec don't like the idea as they say it will make the pumps work too hard. Any thoughts?


Thanks Mike. It is beautiful country.

I use the automatic unit on my sm. square baler for 5 years now. I usually have someone else baling while I haul it in and straw-boss the kids in the barn. So the automatic unit avoids problems with over/under application.

I am adding the remote pause switch to both balers now--the screen is just too hard to read in the sunlight to hit "Pause" while baling. I am going to replace the foot switch that Harvest Tec sells with a push button or on/off switch mounted by the monitor. Harvest Tec wants $500 for the electric eyes on the Hay Presence sensors.

I am going to see how the 55 gal. tank works out on my BR780A. If I don't like it, I might have the local fabricating shop build me flat tank about 30-50 gal. out of stainless steel that could mount like the Dorhmann unit. Another possibility is that I might have 2 smaller tanks built and put them in the twine boxes on either side. I only bale net wrap, even when custom baling. This shop is real good at that kind of thing and cheap.

I'll then use the 55 gal plastic tank in my Gator in place of the 25 gal tank for brush spraying, etc.

I use a cheap 120v transfer pump with a 20' lift. I keep a 15 gal. tank of water by my acid barrels and flush the pump after each use. So far, so good.

Ralph


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Rightly or wrongly we spent the extra $500 and ordered the electric eye sensors as well.

In the past we gravity fed our tank as it sat beside the twine box on the 575. This way we could fill 55 gallons in not much more than a minute. On the 5070 they made the twine box bigger which means I can't fit the tank in the same spot. The suggested place is on top of the baler which is too high to gravity feed off the trailor. In that case I now would have to have a loader sitting with the tank (hate that idea) or have a transfer pump which I think would increase fill time to about 5 mins at least. Hence the reason for thinking of going to the front of the tractor where I can still keep it low.

How much capacity does your transfer pump have Ralph?.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

The eyes must have gone up considerably, I still wouldn't run without them. I never flush my pumps in the 5 or 6 years I've owned the unit and still haven't had a problem (knock on wood). Most of the time flushing daily is recommended for bacterial innoculants as they can get slimy if left in the tank.

I use a 12 volt electric transfer pump, 7 or 8 gallons a minute, not as fast as I'd like but is a good time to take a quick look at the baler or maybe return a few phone calls, if nothing else is also a good time to stretch the legs.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

MikeRF said:


> How much capacity does your transfer pump have Ralph?.


It runs about 5-6 gals/min.

Ralph


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