# ALFALFA PROCEDURES??



## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

NEW TO THE SITE, BUT NOT TO BALING HAY. I WANTED TO GET A GENERAL IDEA OF HOW OTHER COMMERCIAL PRODUCERS OF ALFALFA ARE HARVESTING THEIR HAY.

WE ARE RUNNING MOCO'S WITH IMPELLERS, USUALLY TEDDERING WITHIN A FEW HOURS OF CUTTING, AND LETTING DRY FOR 2 DAYS. ON THE THIRD DAY, WE RAKE WITH A BIT OF DEW ON, THEN LET THE UNDERSIDE DRY. WE HAVE HAD A TERRIBLE TIME THIS YEAR WITH GETTING THE HAY DRY ENOUGH TO BALE. WE HAVE USED PROP ACID TO SPEED ALONG ON FIRST CUTTING. THIS HAS BEEN A MILD YEAR, WITH LOW TEMPS AND LOTS RAIN HERE IN WEST KY. WE JUST LOST THE THIRD CUTTING ALTOGETHER BECAUSE IT WOULDNT BALE.

IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO DIFFERENT? WE ARE CONSIDERING GOING TO STEEL ROLLER MOCO'S. I FEEL LIKE THE IMPELLERS ARE NOT CONDITIONING ENOUGH. WHAT ABOUT HAY INVERTERS? ARE THEY WORTH IT? SHOULD WE TEDDER AGAIN BEFORE RAKING, OR WAIT LONGER BEFORE TEDDERING? WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP LEAVES ON, AS MOST OTHER PEOPLER ARE AS WELL.

I APPRECIATE ANY FEEDBACK!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Welcome to the site!

And welcome to the problems of haying! You're doing the same things I would normally do. And we've all been facing the same problems.

I cut 30 acres last Weds., tedded it Weds. Saturday, parts were too dry, parts were too wet. A lot had to do (I think) with the time of day it was cut.

Parts cut Weds. AM were too dry even though it had less sun because it was on a shady side of the hill. Parts cut in the late afternoon were too wet, even though it was a south facing hill and got the prevailing wind.

High temperatures were in the mid 70's, lows in the mid 50's.

In hind-sight, I probably would have been ahead to wait another day, as the weather changed between Sat. and Sun., but it kept threatening rain Sat.

Next time, I'm going to the gambling casino--I'm thinking the odds will be better. (I'll lose less.)

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I mow in the morning after the dew is off (no sense adding water to the row) ted the next AM when the dew is still on and in a normal year rake the afternoon of the second day and bale. This year has been far from normal though, I've been tedding it again the third morning then raking in the afternoon and bale.

I'm very fond of my Circle C conditioning rolls.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I would suggest a tubeline accelerator or somethin similar. Use 24 hours after cutting. It works great around here and we have a tough time making hay some years. It cuts about a day off drying time.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I would use rollers. Impellers tear up the leafs. There's a way to change the gears on the impellers to slow them down on alfalfa. Its not very hard to do. Just dont tell the manufacture if you have a warranty issue! Its a common thing people can do, they just dont want people to know they can do it. I also wouldnt ted my. I wont ted mine. Keep touching alfalfa, your going to lose more leafs. Like rjmoses said, last week in MO is was cooler than normal. I mowed alfalfa Friday evening. Raked it Saturday afternoon. Still wasnt dry enough to bale Sunday around noon. Turned the rows over to get air/sun on the under side. Monday by noon I baled it. Ended up very, very good. Some of the better alfalfa I've ever put up. Normally in August, I can cut it one day and bale it the next evening.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Just have to ted when the dew is on to avoid loosing leaves. If it wasn't for multiple teddings making any alfalfa in September or October wouldn't be possible here.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Now with as wide a swath left behind the machine as possible. I modified my MoCo to cover between 66% and 100% of the ground with down hay.

The idea is to dry the leaves down below 42% moisture before sunset. When the hay is in the dark the stomata in the leaves and stems close and shut off moisture escape through this route. The idea is to have at least the leaves dried enough so there is no overnight respiration in the plant.

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I find I use the tedder a lot less this way.

To rake or use the tedder we want the air down next to the hay near a 90% HUMIDITY. This protects the leaves. Many times when I am raking the tires will turn black with the dew's moisture.

For small square bales bale when the air, next to the cured hay, is 70% Humidity. This will bale at 20% moisture maybe 18% moisture.

Round Bales and 3X3 squares bale with a 65% Humidity.

Hay dries or cures based on the swath width, yield, and total pan evaporation.

HERE I have roughly 2 hours to bale between being too tough to bale and too dry.

To stretch this I will rake some hay at first light the day of baling, rolling dew inside the windrow. This gives me about another hour of baling.

I plan on 300 bales/hr or 600 total, maybe 900 bales if I do my part.

In theory I can put 420 bales/hr on the ground. Has not happened yet.

Humidity will fool you. The reported humidity can be 50% and the hay still wet with dew. Measure down next to the hay the humidity will regester in the 90% range.

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I count strokes per bale, shoot for 13 to 15 strokes/bale. Shift down when it goes to 11 strokes/bale and shift up when it is 18 strokes per bale. Bale a 34" long 55 lb bale.

Be nice to have a hydro transmission to be able to make small corrections in ground speed. Instead I have a clutch and a gear shift. (4 gears per range and 2 ranges)

Run the PTO fast enough to be baling at the high end of the strokes/minute. It is easier on the baler to be running on the higher strokes/minute.

*With a good job of raking baling is fairly easy*.

.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I should mention that bermudagrass sheds omre leaves than alfalfa ever thought of doing.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I see all this about humidity beside the row. What kind of rig do you get to maesure that?


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I mow in the morning after the dew is off (no sense adding water to the row) ted the next AM when the dew is still on and in a normal year rake the afternoon of the second day and bale. This year has been far from normal though, I've been tedding it again the third morning then raking in the afternoon and bale.
> 
> I'm very fond of my Circle C conditioning rolls.


How much time does the circle c rolls save you in drying? I got the rolls on my kuhn set so that I can split about 30%-50% of the stems. How much faster would things dry if the whole stem was cracked?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hog987 said:


> How much time does the circle c rolls save you in drying? I got the rolls on my kuhn set so that I can split about 30%-50% of the stems. How much faster would things dry if the whole stem was cracked?


well, the difference would be between having 30-50% of the stem cracked compared to having 90% plus of the stem cracked.

It hasn't happened here yet, but some guys using the Circle C Rolls claim the stems will dry before the leaves if properly set.

Dad put me on a Super 88 Oliver diesel with a NH 495 haybine behind it when I still had to stand up to reach the clutch pedal mowing hay, I'm going on 44 now and since installing the Circle C rolls I won't mow hay with a stock set of conditioning rolls.


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## jdhayfarmer (Jan 20, 2012)

Get rid of the impellers and get the John Deere tri lobe rolls they took a day off of our drying time.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

THANKS TO ALL THE REPLIES, WE ARE WORKING ON A TRADE ON THE IMPELLER MACHINE TO A ROLLER. MIGHT GO WITH A NH 7230? THEN MAYBE UPGRADE TO CIRCLE C LATER. I THINK THE INITIAL CONDITIONING IS WHAT IS KILLING US.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have the flails on my 7330 and do t suffer much leaf loss on our alfalfa, but cannot get the stems to crack worth a darn. Works wonders in grass sucks in alfalfa. Only do 23 acres of alfalfa for some customers. Neighbors have a 7230 with rolls, has a dairy and does all alfalfa and beats me by a day every time. I don't have the hood liner on the 7330, that might help not sure. This year has been really tough to make nice hay with the crap weather.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Both Gempler's 1-800-382-8473 www.gemplers.com and FarmTek 1-800-327-6835 or 1-563-875-2288 www.farmtek.com have tools to measure humidity.

Presently I use a FemTek *Jumbo Display *Thermomior/Hygrometer

Put next to the ground and in the shade. I can read it from a little distance.

Knowing the humidity I can about do with out my on the go moisture tester.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

You had asked about an inverter. Unless I missed one reading this post no one replied about them. I have used an inverter here with great success. I run it after the dew comes off for the mentioned reasons. I have had great luck with minimal leaf loss. With a 16' cut, a NH144 will leave just enough room to bale one of the two windrows laying side by side by itself. I run small squares in heavy hay so that matters to me as merging wouldn't be good.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

KY BRONCO, You are fortunate to have the best Forage specialist team in the country. 
Next best is California where most of their County Agents are at least as good as most states entire Forage Extension Structure.
Hay curing time is mostly dependent on total pan evaporation, swath width, and yield.

Conditioned hay the first day will not cure any faster than behind a simple mower, compared to a conditioning mower dropped in a windrow, mostly based on the swath width.
The second day is when the conditioning kicks in.
The last day is mostly air movement and humidity.

I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that hay left out flat behind a simple mower will cure faster than conditioned hay dropped into a windrow.

Cornel University has a chart that demonstrates the advantage of a wide swath, for the humid East.

A number of Universities have demonstrated that hay will not cure if the weather does not cooperate.

You will find there is no One Best Hay Curing System.

If you are not a KY Hay & Forage Association Member join. See your county agent or write DR Gary Lacefield, [email protected], or his secretary [email protected]. Try to attend the annual alfalfa conference, in later January, and maybe the American Forage & Grassland Council Conference early January in Memphis.
Write me at [email protected] if you wish.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

"I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction, that hay left out flat behind a simple mower will cure faster than conditioned hay dropped into a windrow" - Hay Wilson
I've seen the reports that unconditioned hay in a wide swath would dry faster in the initial phase of drying. Apparently, the stomata in the leaves can draw the moisture out of the stems easier ( and faster), if they are unbroken. The forage experts seem to be recommending to those putting up haylage to forget about conditioning the hay as it's a waste of time. My question , for those of us making dry hay, is would there be some benefit in delaying the conditioning operation till the second phase of drying ? As I recall in the old days when we used to follow the mower with a separate conditioner machine, if we waited too long, the rolls tended to gum up which then led to plugging. Anyone out there with a Recon, accelerator, or macerater ever tried there machine on unconditioned hay after the initial drying phase?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Hay Wilson,

If you have a link to Cornel University's info on drying please post it,

Thanks,

Hugh


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Hugh the best I can do is

Link 
http://palspublishing.cals.cornell.edu/nra_order.taf?_function=detail&pr_booknum=nraes-5

or Contact 
[email protected]

My copy can not be found. Sorry About That.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

Hugh:
You might try Googling Tom Kilcer's name. I think he had several papers on wide swath drying of haylage.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I often wonder if dry hay could be made in the east without conditioningby just mowing with him or without conditioning rolls


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

Sure, if you can let it dry 2or 3 more days! In a humid climate you need every tool and trick in the bag to get hay to dry . I'm often envious of the guys making silage who can put their whole crop up in a week or less, almost oblivious of the weather conditions. It seems to me that wrapping the hay in round or large square bales may be the best approach, unless you have the patience to wait for a good weather spell and can tolerate lower quality as the hay matures.


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