# Hay Sample Results, 2008 - Coastal Bermuda in Texas



## chetlenox (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey all,

Just wanted to post my test results for the year and see if anybody wanted to comment. I'm just a small timer learning as I go (we baled 1400 small squares this year). We grow winter rye (harvested first cutting, usually around the start of May) and Coastal Bermuda in the summer (harvested June through October) and sell to local horse owners.

Here is a plot of our 2007 cuttings (3) and 2008 cuttings (4) crude protein, acid detergent fiber, and total digestable nutrient percentages










As you can see, we typically run 12-13% crude protein with one cutting as high as 15.1% and one particularly bad one at 7.4% (just rained and rained, we couldn't cut for 8 weeks!). The biggest impact on crude protein percentage that I've found is the cut period (days between last cutting and current one). Here is our numbers plotted up against some other numbers I found in literature for Coastal Bermuda grass. Mine is the blue diamonds (hollow are first cutting, solid are the rest of the year).










Here are the raw numbers from the graphs:










"Grass" is grass type (mixed or Coastal Bermuda), "Prev 2wk rainfall" is the amount of rain we had in the two weeks before the current cutting's period, "Rainfall amount" is the rain we had durring the cutting period, "# of bales" is pretty obvious, "Pred bales" is the number of bales predicted by a model I put together to try and estimate how many bales I would get as a function of rainfall and cut period time, "Model error" is pretty obvious, that's how much my model was off (worst error was 80 bales, not too bad), the rest are pretty obvious.

Feel free to comment, like I said, I'm just getting this figured out so I like to get all my hay sampled and look at the numbers. Helps me work to try and make the hay better.

Take care!

Chet.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

For some reason your Pitchurs did not take, at least not for me.

In spite of what we hear for 12% CP hay will be there with 42 days between cutting, if you fertilized with 40 to 50 lbs of nitrogen per expected ton of hay.

I have cut at 8 weeks and the hay tested at 5-6% CP, one year and the next year it tested 8% CP. The wetter the year the lower the protein.

Rained on hay goes to poor quality, quick.


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## chetlenox (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks HayWilson, I think the Haytalk re-configuration a week or two ago must have broken the links. I fixed them up.

Now that you can see my chart, you can see that my numbers seem to match yours pretty well (~12% at 42 days and very low at >8 weeks). I absolutely agree that the fertilizer is going to be a pretty big input variable as well (from what I've heard, mainly the nitrogen). I try to get a relatively constant nitrogen input by testing my soil every February and requesting the lb/acre "suggested" numbers for Coastal Bermuda from the A&M soil/sample lab. In fact, it's about time to do that again this year.

The only cutting of the seven I've shown that got rained on after it was cut was the first cutting in 2007 (first data point on the graph). If you remember, that spring was very wet and we just took a chance and paid the price. We raked and raked until it was dry and baled it up anyway. The crude protein was actually pretty good (13%), but the color was poor and we sold it for cheap to folks feeding cows. My first cutting is not Coastal anyway, it's mixed winter grasses (mostly Rye with some clover mixed in for good measure).

Bottom line, I agree with you completely! Thanks for the feedback... Where in Texas are you? I assume you are growing Coastal as well?

Chet.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes the pictures and graphs and charts look really great.

2007 was indeed wet, wet enough to loose all my alfalfa fields. There were some rather costly lessons to be learned in 2007. 
2008 ended up being mostly in roundbales as a tornado took out the hay barn.

It does require a good since of humor to persist in farming.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Chet,
I have strong reservations regarding the TAMU soils lab's usefulness in my corner of the Texas Blacklands. 
First off my soil is high in calcium and the pH is right on 8.0. For years and years they insisted their Modified Morgan chemistry was perfect for all the soils in Texas. They reported we all have very high levels of phosphate and every farmer in the area realized we would see a positive crop response to phosphate fertilizers.

After some years of agonizing as to why my 350 ppm K soil test resulted in highly deficient alfalfa plants. Eventually I learned that not all clay's are the same. The clay here with it's high shrink swell ratios, would lock phosphate between the platelets and the K was not available to the crop. But the process of drying the clay and then crushing the dry clay released the potassium. So in reality, regardless of conventional wisdom, unless my clay soils are between 450 ppm K & 550 ppm K my crop will be deficient in potash.

At the Blackland Research Center at Temple, there is a A & M trained soil chemist, but he is not indoctrinated to the party line. 
Fortunately for him he is on the USDA side of the station not the Extension side.


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## chetlenox (Jun 5, 2008)

Ha! HayWilson, I think you are way ahead of me in understanding how soil chemistry turns into good hay! I'm pretty sure what you were saying is that your soil samples were coming back that you had plenty of potassium in the soil, but in reality that potassium was "locked away" by the soil's structure and not allowing your plants to access it. So you had to add more potash then your soil samples were suggesting. Is that about right?

Sounds like you aren't all that far away (I've lived in Texas for a few years, but don't exactly know the area that you would call The Blacklands). I'm here in Venus (south of Ft. Worth), and our soil is full of clay as well (conductivity of 373 umho/cm). My test result from last winter came back with a pH of 7.5 (slightly alkaline) and a potassium level of 185 ppm. With my goal settings of 2 tons/acre of Bermuda grass, that resulted in a recommendation that I didn't need to add any potassium (which I didn't). Are you saying that I might want to consider adding a little potash to my fertilizer mix this spring? Just in case the potassium in my soil is there, but not accessable by the Bermuda?

Wow, I thought my 2007 was rough. Your hay barn got wiped out by a tornado? Now that is a rough year! I can't say it ain't possible though, there were so many spring storms that year we had several tornados touch down within a few miles of us. Sorry to hear about your barn though, that's pretty rough.

I would love to hear more about your operation. I've only been doing this for two years now, but I've realized that Hay is a very regional thing. I'm sure I could learn plenty from just learning how you do business...

Thanks again,

Chet.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Unlike most row crop farmers I use three bits of data to establish my fertility requirements for the succeeding year, or years. 
I pull soil samples as well as tissue samples about a week before the second cutting. That plus tracking the results of hay testing's mineral analysis are about equal to a set of records. 
In my soil nitrogen does not leach out, but also becomes tied up in the clay structure and becomes a slow release fertility program. All my nitrogen fertilizer is applied during our winter.

Really a tissue analysis tells us more about our fertility than soil testing. 
From the road at 60 mph our soils in the Blacklands all look alike. Trouble is they are not all alike.

I know roughly where you are, but not the specifics of your conditions. I am down I-35 to Temple, & then south and east of Temple, getting off at the 304exit. 
My major advantage is I have the Blackland Research Center about 5 miles from my farm. 
In the past I benefited from activities with the Texas Forage & Grassland Council. Unfortunately TFGC has been allowed do die a slow painless death. 
The BIG Forage Session has had to take up the slack from the demise of TFGC.


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