# The Best Small(er) Tractor Round Baler? What Would You Buy?



## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

Hello there everyone! I have a 63 and 65 PTO Horsepower set of tractors, and I want to do some round baling. I hope to start off slow, but ultimately put up 200-300 acres of rounds per year.

The problem is, that I do not know much about round balers, I have virtually no experience with them. I want to buy new, I'm a tradesman running a non-farm business so I simply cannot afford downtime, period. I know some is inevitable, but I'm trying to minimize things as much as possible. I will consider almost any brand. My priorities are:

1) Maximum operational uptime percentage possible

2) Longest life possible of the machine itself

3) Must be "small" tractor friendly (Like I said, 63 and 65 PTO hp)

4) Net wrap perferred

5) One-remote preferred (I can add 2, for 3 total to my newer tractor, if this would be a problem).

What would you buy, any why? We have dealers for almost all the major brands within comfortable driving distance to me. Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated, thank you so much, in advance.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

When AC compressor failed on my JD 4255(120 pto hp) this summer I briefly pulled my JD 467 rd baler with my Kubota M7040(64 pto hp) & it pulled baler just fine. I make 4X5.5 bales @ 6 MPH & granted my hay fields a virtually level


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

There are lots of good choices to use with 65 pto hp in a 4x5 baler. That is one of the better sizes as far as selling to a wide array of customers. Beef folks usually want as large as a bale as possible to cut down on handling due to the large number of bales that they might feed. Horse folk like that size(4x5) very well. Just choose one that has a dealer nearby and that is reputable. If you bought a reasonably used relatively lower hour baler it would likely last you a long time. I don't hardly bale very many roundbales anymore (300-400/yr.)..and if you were in that category, a good used one would probably give you great service for many many years. I would probably look at either Deere, NH, or Vermeer as parts likely would be more readily available if needed.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I had the same questions a few years ago. I narrowed it down to Vermeer v New Holland. No close Massey support in my area. Also pre JD economy models I believe.

If I was me then again today, I would look much harder at the jd models. But after my experience with Vermeer, I would be hard pressed to head in a different direction.

For an economical new 4x5 baler, you have JD, NH, Vermeer, and MF to choose from (I reserve the right to be corrected). If you are stepping up from the base models your choices may go up, along with the price.

I have a Rebel 5420, bale a similar amount as you, and have been very happy with my purchase. When I was in the market, one of my choices was a slightly used NH 450 roll belt (economy model). Iirc, 2 major things on this turned me yellow: that one was traded off for a vermeer because of manufacturing defect. Supposedly ultimately corrected, but a true Friday made machine. Also I believe much less weight to NH. Less weight =less steel.

Stepping away from 459e vs Vermeer Rebel vs NH economy, etc is a can of worms I never opened. But I think the concensus on here from what I have read on the higher priced models is that Vermeer, NH, and Deere all make quality products.


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## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

Alright, this is helpful, thanks! Right now I'm leaning towards Vermeer.

Anyone know anything about the class and kuhn offerings? Theres a class dealer of all things fairly close by...


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

200-300 acres of round bales? That's a good size acreage! What kind of hay?

Figuring 2-4 tons/acre/year, that's between 400-600 and 800-1200 tons/year. Smaller bales, in the 700 lb range means that you'd be rolling up from 1200 to as much 3600 bales/year. I think I'd be looking for a little heavier equipment, probably a 5x6 bale.

Of course, part of your decision could include your willingness to trade up--buy a smaller 4x4 or 4x5 baler, then trade it in.

You might put some pencil to paper and see how fast you want to grow to the 300 acre range.

Lot to think about!

Ralph


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Dealer support is all that matters, in this part of Texas green is king. We have multiple dealers and parts are readily available overnight if not in stock although I'd venture to guess 95% of baler parts I've ever needed on the spot are stocked items.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

most any round baler would last you 20 years or more at 300 bales per year. My NH 644 16 years old when we traded for 7060 and still going strong making 400 to 500 per year. Find a good dealer and buy his brand for me that has been NH


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

2-300 ac? I misread as bales. Thats a lot of hay.


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## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

Just curious, you say your tractors are 63 to 65 hp. What are you going to cut 200 to 300 acres with. Would think you'd need bigger tractor to run properly sized moco you get that much hay down in a timely fashion.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've ran my BR 740A with both my Grandfather's Oliver 1600 Diesel (61hp PTO) and my White 2-110 (110hp PTO) and I wouldn't want to be baling 300 acres with the 1600, no way, no how. It could be done no doubt, just wouldn't want to be that guy.


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

For what you are looking to do any brand should work. I have had Deere and Vermeer balers. The Vermeer runs easier but is heavier. If you're looking at new and like Vermeer their 504R signature series baler looks really nice. Right now I'm running a Vermeer 664M Rancher. That 504R has all the features I wish my 664M had, biggest of which is the wider and heavier pickup. If you're looking at new I always suggest that you go with a full line or commercial baler and stay away from the economy models. Resale and basic build quality usually are worth the money.


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## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

rjmoses said:


> 200-300 acres of round bales? That's a good size acreage! What kind of hay?
> 
> Figuring 2-4 tons/acre/year, that's between 400-600 and 800-1200 tons/year. Smaller bales, in the 700 lb range means that you'd be rolling up from 1200 to as much 3600 bales/year. I think I'd be looking for a little heavier equipment, probably a 5x6 bale.
> 
> ...


Hey Ralph!

I think I want to stick with 4x5's, I can haul em side by side on my trailer safely and legally, the 5x6's are 2 feet wider per load and I dont think the law here would give me any trouble, but some roads near me are fun enough driving empty... Yes, I plan to start slow, hopefully 20-40 acres at first, growing as I work out the bugs and save some $$$. Thanks!



Lewis Ranch said:


> Dealer support is all that matters, in this part of Texas green is king. We have multiple dealers and parts are readily available overnight if not in stock although I'd venture to guess 95% of baler parts I've ever needed on the spot are stocked items.


Good to know. Myself and my family have been let down enough by dealers in the past for most major brands (NH, JD & Kubota) that I honestly dont trust any of them. I wonder what the chances are of finding a site that can overnight almost any baler part for a particular machine... Anyone want an idea for a business venture? Haha



Beav said:


> most any round baler would last you 20 years or more at 300 bales per year. My NH 644 16 years old when we traded for 7060 and still going strong making 400 to 500 per year. Find a good dealer and buy his brand for me that has been NH


Good to know, thanks. I'm considering NH but everyone says Vermeer is a heavier built machine. Idk



Northeast PA hay and beef said:


> Just curious, you say your tractors are 63 to 65 hp. What are you going to cut 200 to 300 acres with. Would think you'd need bigger tractor to run properly sized moco you get that much hay down in a timely fashion.


If I got it tomorrow, my 6.2' Drum mower :lol: Hope I have a chance to save up for a discbine, but I might not until after the land is bought. Still tho, ~4.5 acres/hour is gonna take some time...



mlappin said:


> I've ran my BR 740A with both my Grandfather's Oliver 1600 Diesel (61hp PTO) and my White 2-110 (110hp PTO) and I wouldn't want to be baling 300 acres with the 1600, no way, no how. It could be done no doubt, just wouldn't want to be that guy.


Thanks. What exactly would I be getting if I paid for a higher end machine, keeping in mind that I think I want to stick to 4x5 bales for the time being. What would limit me first, the balers I'm looking at, or the ~65 hp?



Widairy said:


> For what you are looking to do any brand should work. I have had Deere and Vermeer balers. The Vermeer runs easier but is heavier. If you're looking at new and like Vermeer their 504R signature series baler looks really nice. Right now I'm running a Vermeer 664M Rancher. That 504R has all the features I wish my 664M had, biggest of which is the wider and heavier pickup. If you're looking at new I always suggest that you go with a full line or commercial baler and stay away from the economy models. Resale and basic build quality usually are worth the money.


Okay cool, thanks. I actually do plan on buying new, I've had too much trouble with used equipment in the past to be comfortable with it, especially when used prices are close to new, on most things around here. I wonder how much price difference there might be between those two? They're two of the models I'm looking most closely at right now.


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

If you're looking at the rancher don't even consider a new one. Crap resale. Can't hardly give mine away. I do mainly baleage for my dairy cows and I'm looking for something that can handle higher moisture hay better. The 4' wide pickup is a letdown. For the pickup alone I'd suggest to go with that 504R. Having said all that the rancher hasn't given me much trouble and makes quite a nice solid bale. Let us know what you end up buying.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Anonsky's Hay Service said:


> wonder what the chances are of finding a site that can overnight almost any baler part for a particular machine... Anyone want an idea for a business venture? Haha


John Deere has done that for many many years for their products.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If you are planning on going to 200-300 acres I'd go with the premium baler in what ever brand you decide.Heavier bearings and shafts in most brands along with a lot heavier pickup in some.

If buying a new baler I wouldn't let a few miles difference to a dealer be that much of a deciding factor,I'd be more worried about how good a dealer he is.Balers now days have way less issues compared to 10-20 yrs ago and there just isn't that many breakdowns

I run Vermeer and they are heavier built then other brands.The Vermeer dealers around here aren't worried about selling combines,planters and tractors so they tend to be better on the hay side in everything.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

BR740A is a 4x5 baler, believe NH even claims 60hp minimum for it, just a lot slower going with 61 pto hp compared to 110hp. lots of downshifting on any hills as well with only 61hp.


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## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

Widairy said:


> For what you are looking to do any brand should work. I have had Deere and Vermeer balers. The Vermeer runs easier but is heavier. If you're looking at new and like Vermeer their 504R signature series baler looks really nice. Right now I'm running a Vermeer 664M Rancher. That 504R has all the features I wish my 664M had, biggest of which is the wider and heavier pickup. If you're looking at new I always suggest that you go with a full line or commercial baler and stay away from the economy models. Resale and basic build quality usually are worth the money.


Okay, cool. 504R Signature, or 504R Premium? They have so many dang variants of that baler, its hard to keep em all straight... Just because I'm still picking up my marbles here, the 504R is a full line/commercial unit, right? The 664M is the economy model?



Vol said:


> John Deere has done that for many many years for their products.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Where, just through the deere website? I might be interested in one of theirs if I can buy parts direct from somewhere... No driving, no salesman, no parking or toll roads, just order what I need and have it in a day.... Thanks, Mike!



swmnhay said:


> If you are planning on going to 200-300 acres I'd go with the premium baler in what ever brand you decide.Heavier bearings and shafts in most brands along with a lot heavier pickup in some.
> 
> If buying a new baler I wouldn't let a few miles difference to a dealer be that much of a deciding factor,I'd be more worried about how good a dealer he is.Balers now days have way less issues compared to 10-20 yrs ago and there just isn't that many breakdowns
> 
> I run Vermeer and they are heavier built then other brands.The Vermeer dealers around here aren't worried about selling combines,planters and tractors so they tend to be better on the hay side in everything.


Okay, thank you. As mentioned, I'm not only willing to but I WANT to buy quality and run the thing for decades if possible. Do you know of any model they have for a ~65hp pto tractor that would be better in these regards than a 504?



mlappin said:


> BR740A is a 4x5 baler, believe NH even claims 60hp minimum for it, just a lot slower going with 61 pto hp compared to 110hp. lots of downshifting on any hills as well with only 61hp.


Ah, I understand. Luckily the land around here is almost all flat. Who knows what size tractor I'll be running in a decade?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Anonsky's Hay Service said:


> Where, just through the deere website? I might be interested in one of theirs if I can buy parts direct from somewhere... No driving, no salesman, no parking or toll roads, just order what I need and have it in a day.... Thanks, Mike!


You will still have to go through a Deere dealer. You can use the JD parts search website and find said part and number and then call your preferred JD dealer and order it through them....and then tell them you need it "overnighted".

It is also good to establish a Multi-Use Account with Deere as it just speeds up the process even more and then you don't have to be bothered with credit/debit card info. JD is probably one of the easiest and credible financial institutions that ag people could ever work with.....for example, last fall many growers in the deep South were severely affected by some hurricanes along with severe flooding during harvest times. In many instances, they gave their borrowers a grace period long enough to either complete harvest when conditions allowed or when insurance paid on their claims with no additional charges. And in some instances, JD extended payments for another year where insurance was lacking or insufficient.

It is very fashionable for some to rip JD at every opportunity, but in reality they are a very good company. ....some of their dealerships/operators is probably their biggest negative factor.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Okay, thank you. As mentioned, I'm not only willing to but I WANT to buy quality and run the thing for decades if possible. Do you know of any model they have for a ~65hp pto tractor that would be better in these regards than a 504?

Looks like any of the 504 models can be run with 65 HP
https://www.vermeer.com/NA/en/N/equipment/balers


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't understand the logic in buying a piece of equipment to hold onto for decades. It will be obsolete in decades and you'll only get depreciation benefits for a relatively small percentage of your ownership. Buy something that should work for you for five to eight years. Buy another baler when you're making more hay.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I have a 1996 JD 375 round baler that I bought new. I can still get parts for it, therefore it is not obsolete. I don't bale but 3-4 hundred rounds a year now....I used to bale many more. It is and has been trouble free. I am not worried about depreciation nearly as much as dependability. I have been baling rounds for only the cost of twine and normal tractor operating costs for many years now. I like to purchase solidly built, long lasting, dependable equipment. To each his own.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Using something less and less as the years go by is far different than attempting to grow to 300 acres with the initial unit.


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## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

swmnhay said:


> Okay, thank you. As mentioned, I'm not only willing to but I WANT to buy quality and run the thing for decades if possible. Do you know of any model they have for a ~65hp pto tractor that would be better in these regards than a 504?
> 
> Looks like any of the 504 models can be run with 65 HP
> https://www.vermeer.com/NA/en/N/equipment/balers


I guess that leaves deciding between the signature and the premium. Any opinions?



8350HiTech said:


> I don't understand the logic in buying a piece of equipment to hold onto for decades. It will be obsolete in decades and you'll only get depreciation benefits for a relatively small percentage of your ownership. Buy something that should work for you for five to eight years. Buy another baler when you're making more hay.


I try to keep everything as long as it is useful to me... I'd rather sell it for $500, 30 years from now than $10,000 in 10, having gotten the extra usage from it. Speaking of which - anyone know what kind of life expectancy these machines have, in terms of bale count? Or does age tend to kill them more than use...


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

The last few balers I've sold have had over 30k rolls through them and still baling 3-5000 rolls a year with little trouble.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

KRONE Belima 130. It will bale anything and do it well. Everyone around me that has one loves them and has had no issues. Might also be a good alternative.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Anonsky's Hay Service said:


> I guess that leaves deciding between the signature and the premium. Any opinions?
> 
> I try to keep everything as long as it is useful to me... I'd rather sell it for $500, 30 years from now than $10,000 in 10, having gotten the extra usage from it. Speaking of which - anyone know what kind of life expectancy these machines have, in terms of bale count? Or does age tend to kill them more than use...


I don't know alot about the 504's but the premium is designed to handle 2000 lb wet bales for baleage.It has heavier belts.Looks like a 3 yr warranty on both

Looks like R series runs steel coil pickup teeth vs rubber in N series.I do like my rubber mounted teeth in my baler.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Anonsky's Hay Service said:


> Where, just through the deere website? I might be interested in one of theirs if I can buy parts direct from somewhere... No driving, no salesman, no parking or toll roads, just order what I need and have it in a day.... Thanks, Mike!


Everything that vol mentioned and if you use Deere for anything and are not in a hurry for it tell them to stock order it. Most parts you will get within 2-3 days and you don't pay for shipping. Deere quality is good on the balers but in my area Deere lacks in the service and sales customer service. I have had JD 446, 458, 459 S.S. balers


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

IH 1586 said:


> Everything that vol mentioned and if you use Deere for anything and are not in a hurry for it tell them to stock order it. Most parts you will get within 2-3 days and you don't pay for shipping. Deere quality is good on the balers but in my area Deere lacks in the service and sales customer service. I have had JD 446, 458, 459 S.S. balers


Every dealer I deal with has stock orders with free shipping.Agco,Vermeer,CNH,Kubota and JD


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## neffequipment (Feb 19, 2014)

Vol, on 07 Jan 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:



Vol said:


> John Deere has done that for many many years for their products.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Where, just through the deere website? I might be interested in one of theirs if I can buy parts direct from somewhere... No driving, no salesman, no parking or toll roads, just order what I need and have it in a day.... Thanks, Mike!

I have customers call me with large part orders and I can overnight direct to them for a ten dollar drop ship charge. I have overnighted 5' rollers before. Spendy, but in-season Vermeer can get overnight parts out until 7:00 pm central time.

No driving, no fuss, everyone wins.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> Every dealer I deal with has stock orders with free shipping.Agco,Vermeer,CNH,Kubota and JD


That's good to know. My New Holland sometimes charges even if I ask. Family owned single store not a chain.


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## Anonsky's Hay Service (Feb 1, 2017)

Yeah, this is great info, thanks guys. Anyone know what baler is closest in comparison to that 504R?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

neffequipment said:


> Vol, on 07 Jan 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:
> 
> Where, just through the deere website? I might be interested in one of theirs if I can buy parts direct from somewhere...
> 
> INo driving, no fuss, everyone wins.


Here's a JD dealer that you can order parts online. www.greenfarmparts.com


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Vol said:


> I have a 1996 JD 375 round baler that I bought new. I can still get parts for it, therefore it is not obsolete. I don't bale but 3-4 hundred rounds a year now....I used to bale many more. It is and has been trouble free. I am not worried about depreciation nearly as much as dependability. I have been baling rounds for only the cost of twine and normal tractor operating costs for many years now. I like to purchase solidly built, long lasting, dependable equipment. To each his own.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Amen to that!!!

Resale and depreciation are fine if you like swapping equipment frequently and shelling out the money to do it. More power to ya... If you've got the acreage and volume and cashflow to make that work, go for it.

If not, then dependability and having a company that stands behind their products and is in it for the long haul is the way to go. That's how we roll...

And, there's something to be said for the "devil you know versus the devil you don't"... I know how *my* equipment has been treated, its quirks and weak points or things to watch or need attention or whatever... not so when you get something "new" or "new to you"...

Just because something's "new" doesn't automatically make it ANY GOOD... or even reliable. As stuff gets ever more complicated the engineering gets cheaper and the build quality seems cheaper and there's a LOT more to go wrong.

That's why I'm keeping my old '02 pickup instead of buying a new one, even though it has 318,000 miles on it... I can do a LOT of fixing for what those monthly notes on these new electronic wonders cost, and I don't even like all that new crap they put on the new stuff anyway, so why do I want to pay a fortune for it??

Feel the same way about most equipment...

Later! OL J R


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I hear you with the truck. LOL. My daily driver is an 88 F250. it won't die so I won't get rid of it. A years worth of insurance cost two months of my wife's car payment... she likes to yell at me every time it goes into the shop that I need a new one but then I'd break the cost down into her car payments and she shuts up real quick LOL.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I'm in a 1995 Chevy and have been since 1995 first new one I ever bought when it gives up I'll look for a good used 1986 Chevy or Ford.


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