# 540 vs 1000 pto pay more for both?



## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

I have to admit my ignorance regarding the pros and cons of either a 540 rpm PTO machine versus a 1000 rpm implement. Everything on my place is currently 540. However, I'm movin' up to a bigger tractor and I'm wondering if it makes sense to pay a little extra and have the option of both pto speeds.

All comments appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

If you ever go to a (large) mower conditioner they're much easier to find in 1000. Many round balers can be found in 1000. Both of my tractors have both pto's for redundancy mostly. If one goes down, the other machine can finish getting up the hay until I have it fixed because either machine will run any of our equipment.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I think most of those machines that will run on either 540/1000 will tell you that you should exclusively use the 1000 if using a tractor over 90-100hp so your tractor option is nice but will also be dictated by your implement.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Generally a tractor that has enough hp to run a 1000rpm implement will be equipped with both a 540 and 1000 pto. Not sure about other brands but on my Deeres the pto stub shaft on the tractor is reversible with one side being 1000 and the other 540. All you have to do is remove the snap ring and pull the shaft out of the tractor and turn in around and slide it back in.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Some tractors come with both. My McCormick does.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I think Farmercline is right. If the tractor has enough power they will include either two shafts or a reversible shaft. I know all of ours do that can handle it. Though we just have one implement that uses it (3x3 baler).


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Some of the older, larger tractors (180 hp) are only 1000 pto.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Some larger HP tractors 1000 rpm are also a larger shaft.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

I know when I bought my Kubota 540pto was standard, and if you wanted both 540 and 1000 it was a spendy option. Being that the only implement I had that was 1000 was my rototiller, and it could be converted to 540, I stuck with the standard 540 and just changed the sheaves and coupler on my tiller to make it 540.

Other than compatibility with what implements you have, or might want to have, the only advantage of a 1000rpm PTO, is implement drive train wear and tear on tractors over 100hp. So really, it's up to you and what you'll be doing with the tractor.

Another thought... I remember when I bought my Kubota, the dealer said that it was a dealer installed option, and if I ever wanted to add it on later, I could.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The advantage of 1000 rpm pto is the reduced torque required to run at that speed.

Tractors as they got to 100hp and surpassed that found the equipment to match the higher horsepower took too muck torque for the standard 6-spline pto drive which on many tractors were driven within the tractor by a 1 inch shaft. That drive shaft and the 6-spline shaft are at the end of their torque rating and possibly past it with a 100hp power plant working to its capacity. Of course if the driven implement had only low power demands no problem.

The answer to the higher power demands of bigger implements was the introduction of a new "standard" pto shaft with 21 splines.

The 6/splie shaft is 1 3/8 inches in diameter but uses deep splines which reduces the core diameter of the shaft. The 21 spline shaft is still 1 3/8 inches in diameter but has fine splines which results in a larger core diameter and at 1000 rpm the torque requirements of the implement are reduced allowing much larger implements to be driven which is further enhanced by the larger core diameter.

BUT of course implement size and the consequent power demands kept ever upward so a third "standard" pto shaft was introduced of slightly larger diameter 1 3/4 inch and 20 splines and still 1000 rpm.

Some Japanese and some Korean tractors supply a multi-change (4 speed gearbox) with 540, 750, 1000 rpm and another speed I have never figured out, mainly due to lack of interest or need on my part. The Shibaura se 4040 is one example

The Massey Ferguson 254 and several Landini tractors that I have come across have 2 speed pto with a gear lever change to give 540 and 1000 rpm but only a 6-spline shaft ( but they are sub-90 hp).

Moving up to a larger tractor, it is a no-brainer, in my view; get the 540/1000 option. Cheaper to do that now than add it later or have to change a tractor because implement drive options go to 1000 rpm in the future.

With the option you are not constrained in the future when it comes to further implement purchases.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Appreciate Coondle's technical review. I'm trying to look down the road a bit with some of my current machines and the MoCo is getting some age on it and maybe in 5-6 years I'll be lookin' for a 5x6 baler, too.

After wading around in the "tractor pool" it does looks like you have to swim over in the 100hp area to see the 1000 pto option.

Couple of other things I have noted is some listing's will state that 540/1000 is on the tractor but "no 540 shaft"... And, there's the "field installed" option at the dealership end and there's the "ordered option" from the factory for a dual speed pto.

Seems to me that you'd have to open up the transaxle housing for a "field install". Can only guess that @ $100/hr shop time and parts - the field install would be significantly more $$ than a factory equipped machine; especially with a cab tractor!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

2ndWindfarm said:


> Thanks for the info. Appreciate Coondle's technical review. I'm trying to look down the road a bit with some of my current machines and the MoCo is getting some age on it and maybe in 5-6 years I'll be lookin' for a 5x6 baler, too.
> After wading around in the "tractor pool" it does looks like you have to swim over in the 100hp area to see the 1000 pto option.
> Couple of other things I have noted is some listing's will state that 540/1000 is on the tractor but "no 540 shaft"... And, there's the "field installed" option at the dealership end and there's the "ordered option" from the factory for a dual speed pto.
> Seems to me that you'd have to open up the transaxle housing for a "field install". Can only guess that @ $100/hr shop time and parts - the field install would be significantly more $$ than a factory equipped machine; especially with a cab tractor!!!


you're looking at the wrong color tractors....


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

If I was to become wealthy enough to consider bigger equipment and tractor(s) I would be looking at tractors with a 540/ 1000 pto. If all of your equipment is large 1000 rpm pto would be the only choice. If you are getting bigger you most likely have plenty of 540 equipment that it would be nice to use the new tractor with, even if only when the other tractor is busy or in need of repair. The 1000 rpm option opens up equipment options for the future. Although I haven't been shopping, the tractors I've seen around 100hp seem to have dual pto speeds standard. In the case of "no 540 shaft" it would probably take a phone call to the dealership to check cost and availability.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

There are several possible scenarios.

Some tractors for 540/1000 have a reversible pto shaft (some Case and some JD that I know of).

Some tractors have 2 shafts as already discussed above.Some tractors have only 1 output shaft so if it is the 6-spline and you have a 1000 rpm implement then remove the input yoke from the implement and fit a 6-spline shaft. Not a big expense especially if able to fit it yourself. There are also adaptor stub shafts to convert one type to the other.

So no real issue if only one type of output shaft.

There are operators that advocate a 1000 only rpm pto on the tractor and if connected to a 540 rpm implement then throttle back to just over 1/2 of the revs that produce a pto speed of 1000.

That sounds great unless higher rpm are needed for other reasons e.g. ground speed when baling. Half revs means a higher gear to maintain ground speed but the hp may not be there on hills for example.

Years ago similar discussions were had on the merits of buying a tractor with or without 3pl particularly if the buyer had no 3pl implements.

You would need very good reasons to buy a tractor now without 3pl.

I made the mistake several years ago by buying a bargain priced mid-sized tractor with a single speed 540 and when my big tractor internally hemorraghed I had the choice of buying another tractor or changing my mo-co. Because I seem related to Scrooge at times, the mo-co found a new home and I got another mo-co. Would have been easier if the tractor had the 1000 option.

Resale value would also be a consideration for the future. A dual speed 540/1000 tractor is already more attractive to the market than a single speed. I would not but a single speed pto tractor again unless it was a bargain.

Definition of a "bargain":

Something you do not need at a price you cannot resist.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a real weakness for "bargains"....


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Coondle said:


> The Massey Ferguson 254 and several Landini tractors that I have come across have 2 speed pto with a gear lever change to give 540 and 1000 rpm but only a 6-spline shaft ( but they are sub-90 hp).


A friend of mine has a Landini with the 2 speed. I was borrowing it for brushhogging and could not figure out why the brush hog sounded like a jet and the grass was blowing down. Did not know those tractors had that ability and somehow had bumped the lever into 1000.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I have a real weakness for "bargains"....


Me too.


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

My crane (see "if you can start it you can have it" thread in tractor forum) was one of those bargains!

Roger


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## TessiersFarm (Aug 30, 2009)

So I have 2 very similar sized tractors one has only 540 and the other both 540/1000. I did not know enough to decide either way when I bought them, since I have moved to some larger equipment requiring the 1000 rpm, and I would love for them to both have both options. If I were buying anything over 80 hp again, I would look for both speeds. I find the 1000 rpm equipment is easier to find, and tends to be cheaper on the used market, which is what I am shopping from for the most part.


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