# Not at all happy with the New Holland Roll Belt 560 net wrap system.



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Come on New Holland. The system you had on the BRs was near perfect. So by all means reinvent it so that it is over complicated and too touchy to handle the widely varying conditions we have here. I'm glad I can now gift wrap bales just like John Deere. I feel really good about that because with the BRs I was able to gift wrap only one bale in nearly 35,000 that we made. Since we got the 560s Ive lost track how many have way too much wrap. Just a lot of dumb ideas on these wrap systems.

Rant to be continued. Cows to feed yet.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Come on New Holland. The system you had on the BRs was near perfect. So by all means reinvent it so that it is over complicated and too touchy to handle the widely varying conditions we have here. I'm glad I can now gift wrap bales just like John Deere. I feel really good about that because with the BRs I was able to gift wrap only one bale in nearly 35,000 that we made. Since we got the 560s Ive lost track how many have way too much wrap. Just a lot of dumb ideas on these wrap systems.
> 
> Rant to be continued. Cows to feed yet.


I think Vermeer is only mfg that figured out simple is better when it comes to their net wrap system. Maybe the others should have a look at it too. Hopefully you have a teething issue and it works better in a few thousand bales.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Any "low voltage" issues yet? I have a 450 that will still give us error messages about voltage and the billhook will freeze, despite updates by NH and running 12awg cable to the battery. Not as frequently as before but still an issue......


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> Any "low voltage" issues yet? I have a 450 that will still give us error messages about voltage and the billhook will freeze, despite updates by NH and running 12awg cable to the battery. Not as frequently as before but still an issue......


My problem now seems to be that there is not enough oomph in the spring that snaps the net knife over center when it gets really cold out. Net knife will cycle but not cut net. Also having the duckbill snag the trash baffle and pull it out of place when the duckbill retracts. Sometimes the trash baffle ends up bunched up on top of the duck bill. Tried increasing the net brake to aid cutting, now one baler wants to stall the duckbill when retracting. Methinks NH put all the testosterone in the pickup in these balers and forgot the wrap system needs some too.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

devildawg, long shot for your problem, but you could check to see how tight your duckbill actuator is engaging with the duckbill. We had a problem with that, made the duckbill stall, but it didn't show a voltage problem. Seems temperature affected that problem.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

When gearclash first mentioned that the duckbill stalled my first thought was too much brake tension on the net brake disc and if he was using the power cord or going through the tractors power plug. The same is the cause for somedevildawg problem, but somedevildawg may need a software update if none was done and he should go to 10 gauge wire.

Both need to do a net pull test. Open the tailgate and latch. Extend the duckbill fully. grab the net and pull out about four feet. Fully retract the duckbill. Most people will not have a spring scale to tie to the end of the net. If you do when you pull on the spring scale, the pull indicated on the spring scale should be 85 to 95 lbs. Since most people do not have a spring scales handy, just grab the net and see how hard it pulls. If it takes a man and boy to pull the net, loosen the brake. Check for sticky buildup on the brake disc and clean the disc and brake pad if present.

As far as not cutting the net, I would look at the knives to see how dull they are. I know, I know it should not be, but it would not be the first time knives were not properly sharpend.

The other thing I would try is to turn on the precut option for the duckbill.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I have a spring scale and I know the drill so we are going to do that this morning. The knife was cutting just fine up till yesterday. It seems the cold stiffens things up just enough that that the knife won't snap over hard enough to cut. There is no factory means of adjusting the spring, so I will look into adding a spring. I have run totally out a patience to get things done this fall, we are gonna make these things work, whatever it takes.

We are connected directly to the battery, having been warned about that on here and the dealership said the same thing. Is there a way to increase the amperage it takes to stall the duckbill?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Gearclash said:


> We are connected directly to the battery, having been warned about that on here and the dealership said the same thing. Is there a way to increase the amperage it takes to stall the duckbill?


Larger wires connected between monitor & actuator should help increase amperage.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Gearclash said:


> My problem now seems to be that there is not enough oomph in the spring that snaps the net knife over center when it gets really cold out. Net knife will cycle but not cut net. Also having the duckbill snag the trash baffle and pull it out of place when the duckbill retracts. Sometimes the trash baffle ends up bunched up on top of the duck bill. Tried increasing the net brake to aid cutting, now one baler wants to stall the duckbill when retracting. Methinks NH put all the testosterone in the pickup in these balers and forgot the wrap system needs some too.


Discussed it a little with another customer that has ran his 2 yrs.

Did you disconnect the accuator to make sure the knife moves freely?What I understand is it shouldn't snap when comes back like the older ones did.

Sounds like there has been quite a few updates on the first ones built.I wonder if everything has been updated on yours.

On his the monitor was bad and sent to much juice to acctuator and burned it out.Monitor was bad and replaced.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

No way to increase the amps to the motors. The amperage is controlled by the controller, not the monitor.all be it with the proper wire size The H bridge actually sends the power to the motors. Multiple terminals of the H bridge send power to the motor and mutiple terminals supply power to the H bridge. When the amperage reaches a certain level the power is cut to the motor such as at the insert and home position.

If the cold weather is affecting the knife, you might try a light lubricant at the pivot points. Again there could be a sticky buildup at the pivots like on the brake disc.

You could also raise the duckbill stop to increase the tail length which might give the knife more leverage against the net.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I don’t think we have an amperage problem here as aside from the duckbill stalling on one baler after the net brake was tightened there are no errors beside the net not getting cut. The knife actuator seems to function normally.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

mike10 called it correctly. It doesn't make sense, but both balers had dull net knives. It is kind of freaky how quickly both of them quit working right, and within hours of each other. I'm thinking the 560s are more sensitive to a dull knife. The up side is that it is quite easy to remove the whole knife assembly and then remove and sharpen the knives.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Hope that gets it Gearclash......I'm not that confident. Mine will do the same occasionally but I have a hard time believing it's the knives......especially the way the knife system works, but I suppose it's possible. 
I shoulda mentioned, my 12awg is actually greater than that because I ran an SO cable/cord so I effectively have two 12v+ leads of 12awg and one negative lead of 12awg and a chassis ground.....amperage should not be an issue, but sometimes my net knife will get out of whack and not cut with no warning, sometimes it will display voltage but not everytime.....it used to display the battery everytime it malfunctioned. My dealer supposedly did the software updates, but who knows....within two years the place was auctioned and I am left to wonder....did they, or didn't they.....I'm bettin the later.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Just a thought: I sometimes have trouble with my 780A starting the wrap when I've been baling for a while and chaff and dust builds up around the actuator and the linkages. It seems that the crud will be just enough to cause a problem.

About the third time in five bales it fails to start the wrap, I get out and knock the build up off. Everything is fine then.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Glad you got it figured out!

I'll pass the info on to a few guys I know that have same baler.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The knives, I believe, are the same as the BR balers. I think the knives could be sharper than they are when new, but really have not had much trouble. The other thing is you are in an abrasive crop condition


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

mike10, how do you prefer to sharpen net knives? I've found that its difficult to put a nice sharp edge on them, almost seems like the steel isn't all that hard.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> Hope that gets it Gearclash......I'm not that confident. Mine will do the same occasionally but I have a hard time believing it's the knives......especially the way the knife system works, but I suppose it's possible.
> I shoulda mentioned, my 12awg is actually greater than that because I ran an SO cable/cord so I effectively have two 12v+ leads of 12awg and one negative lead of 12awg and a chassis ground.....amperage should not be an issue, but sometimes my net knife will get out of whack and not cut with no warning, sometimes it will display voltage but not everytime.....it used to display the battery everytime it malfunctioned. My dealer supposedly did the software updates, but who knows....within two years the place was auctioned and I am left to wonder....did they, or didn't they.....I'm bettin the later.


Which knife system do you have? There are two. The earlier models have the actuator forcing the knife through its entire range of travel, the later models have the actuator snap the knife over center and the spring + the inertia of the knife does the cutting.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I use a small hand grinder, not the angle grinder you would normally think of, but probably used more for polishing. I use a 24 grit heavy paper disc. I clamp one end of the knife in a vise and lightly go over half the length of the knife until I can feel a curl forming on the back side. I then take a flat file flat against the back of the knife and remove the curl. Then slide the knife in the vice to do the rest of the knife. I think this way a minimal amount of the width of the knife is removed.

Somedevildawg may still have too much net brake tension if the the voltage icon is being displayed. I am sure he had all the updates done. If the knife is not cutting then there are two things he needs to check. Like yours the knives may be dull. The other thing is in the original design like he has, in some conditions material can accumulate on the knives preventing them from cutting. This was one of the reasons the trajectory of the knives was changed to what you have. To correct this problem on his baler, NH added an option in the software for what they call knife shake. This option needs to be turned on if wanted. Just prior to wrapping the knife will do a partial cycle forcing any material on the knife to fall off so the knives will be clear when the time to cut arrives.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I am wondering at what point in the cycle devildawg is seeing that low voltage? If the net brake is too tight that load should only show up when the duckbill is being retracted.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

That is exactly right. I do not think the knife motor would draw enough amps to trigger a low voltage condition. If the controller shuts the duckbill motor down, then the duckbill will not return to the home position for the knife to cut. The duckbill must be in the home position before the knife motor will activate.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I believe the knife will remain in cut position as long as the net is still being applied and will give an error code. So if the knife is up and not cutting I would look at the sharpness of the knives.


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I'm lucky enough to have a gentleman here tho sharpens scissors, kitchen knives, chainsaw blades, and clipper blades professionally. Actually has a degree in it. Once a year in the spring I'll take the twine knives and plunger knives out and take them to him along with a dozen or so chainsaw blades and my Leatherman and he puts a amazing edge on everything. Cheap too


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## outlaw50 (Jul 20, 2013)

lengthen the tail on it . takes some wd-40 spray on that pivot point on the net knife


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

For the life of me when it happens, about once in 50-70 bales, I'm never operating the baler so I only get to see the aftermath after some jiggering with it by the operator. And it is the first method Gearclash....but when it happens, the duckbill is not in the correct orientation because you can't move the knife from the operator panel without first moving the duckbill as the knives won't move unless the bill is "home". The battery low voltage is, I believe, from the duckbill not returning home correctly.....perhaps it's chaff but idk, like I said, I'm usually the last on the scene after other options are exhausted. It may actually happen more often but the operator is able to clear it.....I don't think it's actually getting too low of amperage, but it thinks it's not getting enuf to the board because it stalls the motor, in effect triggering the low voltage indicator.....oddly enuf it doesn't do it every time, before the updates, it did it purty much every time, but with the dwell being longer perhaps that cured the problem for the most part. I do know that when it happens, the bale will be ejected with net still attached. It may issue a warning beep with the net display but when your in the field, the operator will generally eject as soon as a beep goes off, it may be the wrong beep . Which is why I think the sounds of the beeps should be different so as to be able to distinguish between trouble and ready. But alas, what do I know.....


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I concur heartily about the beeps needing to sound different at least for the eject bale alarm.

Intermittent problems are always a bugger to track down. I will say that when we had a baler begin stalling the duckbill in the insert position because the rack and pinion were engaged too tightly, there was not a voltage error, ever. For what its worth we are using the dealer supplied power cord adapter that connects the tractor harness convenience connector to the battery.

Here is another thought. My 7090 was on rare occasions not beginning the wrap process this year. It got a little worse this fall, and the problem seemed to be a poor contact in the baler to tractor harness plug.

*I do know that when it happens, the bale will be ejected with net still attached.*

This would mean that the duckbill is only stalling during retraction which means it is possible the problem is too much net brake. I have found these balers are touchy about having too much brake.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You really need to do the net pull test first to see how tight the brake is. When the duckbill is returning to the home position it needs to pull additional net as the duckbill spreader rolls raise above the stationary spreader roll. When the brake is too tight the system will kick the duckbill motor out to protect it. When these balers first came out, without the optional power cord, the problem would exhibit itself more as the net roll was used up. The smaller the roll the more trouble if the brake was set too tight. The power cord and software upgrade took care of the problem, but it is important to check how hard it is too pull the net since as Gearclash experienced the problem can still arise.

You do not need to use a spring scales if you do not have one. Open and lock the tailgate. Fully extend the duckbill. Pull several feet of net out of the duckbill opening at the back of the rolls. Fully retract the duckbill which sets the brake. Grab the net at the back of the baler and see how hard it pulls. The spec is 85 to 95 lbs of pull once the net starts moving. If it takes a lot of effert to start or pull the net, back off the brake spring tension until the net pulls about what you would judge to be the 85 to 95 lbs pull.

I have seen balers where I could not pull enough with the spring scales to get the net moving even though at one point the setting was right. I think with use with a new baler the braking increases.

On the BR balers the duckbill would stall if the system sensed the tailgate opening. A round bale is round but not perfectly round so as you sit there wrapping the tailgate is moving to the extent the locks allow. If the tailgate sensor is set borderline the tailgate can move enough where the system thinks the tailgate is being opened. On every new baler I set the sensor as close as possible to the tailgate pin. A pry bar between the last latch bolt and the thin bracket will allow you to bend the sensor bracket closer to the tailgate pin. Whether the tailgate opening has the same effect on the Roll Belt balers, I am not certain, but would think it would be. Unless you are using the precut positon, this is probably not your problem but worth a check. The BR balers used the precut position.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Another place to check is your baler harness to tractor connector. Do not let the weight of the harness pull against the connector. I always tie the baler harness to the hyd hoses so the hoses support the weight and so I have plenty of slack between the top tie strap and the tractor connector.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I'll get a scale and check that brake tension......good thoughts


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

There are some software upgrades which just came down that may be of interest to some of you. The alarm for a wrap problem has been changed to a double beep to help differentiate a fault from a completed bale alarm.

Another change is you can now delay when the wrapping system starts. The default is still the same as present, but you can change the setting in one second increments up to a 5 second delay.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks Mike....that first one is golden  what is the factory default delay? I know it's there but never actually timed it.....


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I have never timed it, but it seems like 1 to 2 seconds. Add in the time for the duckbill to insert.

I installed the new software in a 560 I had in the shop to see what the net fault alarm sounded like. It sounds nothing like the bale complete alarm. The volume is considerably louder and deeper in tone. There are two beeps, pause two beeps and so on.

The only question is will the people who are quick on the draw recognize the sound before hitting the remote lever.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol, you're right about that....guess it depends on how many you have to do that day before the rain hits! Sometimes the mind gets muddled....


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

mike10, what is the current software version for the 560?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The controller is 5.0.1 dated 10 22 2018, The operators panel is 3.0.0 dated ? ? 2015


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This is what I have.








I will talk to my dealer about getting them updated. They will will need to come up here sometime anyway for a little warranty work. Leaking tension cylinder.


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