# Bill paying



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We have some establish accounts that we pay monthly from the farms checking account. I pay a fair about of Bill's on line with plastic.. Some of our vendors I see are offering the use of pay pal or Google pay.. I was just curious what is the advantage of using either of those.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Are you looking for a way to save money?
I use plastic since I have a card that gives 3% back on fuel, 5% on cell phone bill and any purchases for office supplies. 1% for the rest

It has no annual fee.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Get a card that pays 'cash back' of some sort on ALL purchases. You should find one at least 1% (my present on is 1.875%) & no annual fee. Then use it when ever possible for every purchase possible BUT you have to COMPLETELY pay off the ENTIRE balance EVERY month.

If you do this, you will end up $$ ahead (with no finance charges or annual fee). Between the farm and my 'off farm' job, I average running about $100,000+ through my card. Which equates to $1,875 per $100K per year, actual cash (deposited into my checking account). $1,875 is real money to me at least.

To take this a 'step' farther, I actually, purchase gift cards from a regional grocery store that gives 'fuel points'. I'll buy say $1,000 worth of gift cards (Home Depot, Kohl's, TSC, Lowes, Applebee's, etc.), when they have 4 times fuel point promotion (presently happening). That gives me 4,000 fuel points, each 1,000 points redeemed, is $1 off of up to 35 gallons of fuel.

Here is my 'savings': $1,000 spent on card, $18.75 cash back, $140 fuel savings (35 gallons @ $1 x 4). Net cost $841.25 ($1,000 -$18.75 - $140 = $841.25). Just went this morning and got 105 gallons of diesel fuel at $1.00 a gallon off, tractors seem to run fine on the cheaper stuff.

I'm not cheap, but frugal (IMHO).

If you don't pay the card off in full each month, the 'savings' will vanish I'm afraid. 

YMMV

Larry

PS you might be a kind of 'dead beat' to the charge card company, because they are not making much $$$ off of you.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

One advantage of Paypal or Google Pay is that your CC number is retained by that single payment vendor, rather than it being in the computer/accounting system of every vendor you pay. Less chance of compromise.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

r82230 said:


> Get a card that pays 'cash back' of some sort on ALL purchases. You should find one at least 1% (my present on is 1.875%) & no annual fee. Then use it when ever possible for every purchase possible BUT you have to COMPLETELY pay off the ENTIRE balance EVERY month.
> 
> If you do this, you will end up $$ ahead (with no finance charges or annual fee). Between the farm and my 'off farm' job, I average running about $100,000+ through my card. Which equates to $1,875 per $100K per year, actual cash (deposited into my checking account). $1,875 is real money to me at least.
> 
> ...


Yes this is are thinking for abandoning the company check book .


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

paoutdoorsman said:


> One advantage of Paypal or Google Pay is that your CC number is retained by that single payment vendor, rather than it being in the computer/accounting system of every vendor you pay. Less chance of compromise.


We use our PayPal sometimes . I have a google account but have not looked into google pay


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

99% of our bills are paid directly from the checking account through ach or we have a bill pay system where the bank sends the check. Some we have on recurring others I control the payment. No cost associated with either. I bet I don't use 5 paper checks a year.

Have used paypal a few times for purchases.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

endrow said:


> Yes this is are thinking for abandoning the company check book .


Haven't abandoned farm check book, but close to doing so. Bought my tedder via CC, but dealer didn't let me buy Kuhn system couple of years ago, via cc (different dealers). Purchase almost all farm stuff via cc, even pay electric/telephone/vet bill via cc. Big ticket items, are harder to get on cc usually (fert./seed/chemicals), it seems, so have to resort to checkbook.

And where/when I have to use checking account, I do online banking. Seems the bank I'm using, will not just make out the check but mail it to the person/business (at no cost to ME, hey, $0.50 is 50 cents in my book. They must get cheaper stamps than I do). This has really reduce my cost of buying checks. Biggest problem with this is my calendar with the checkbook register is out dated (present one is showing the 2016, 2017 & 2018 calendar years (you can tell it's been awhile since I bought some checks).

One of my diesel fuel suppliers, started charging a 'surcharge' for use cc, so I don't use them any more (didn't use them often anyhow, because usually they were higher priced).

Larry


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

r82230 said:


> Haven't abandoned farm check book, but close to doing so. Bought my tedder via CC, but dealer didn't let me buy Kuhn system couple of years ago, via cc (different dealers). Purchase almost all farm stuff via cc, even pay electric/telephone/vet bill via cc. Big ticket items, are harder to get on cc usually (fert./seed/chemicals), it seems, so have to resort to checkbook.
> 
> And where/when I have to use checking account, I do online banking. Seems the bank I'm using, will not just make out the check but mail it to the person/business (at no cost to ME, hey, $0.50 is 50 cents in my book. They must get cheaper stamps than I do). This has really reduce my cost of buying checks. Biggest problem with this is my calendar with the checkbook register is out dated (present one is showing the 2016, 2017 & 2018 calendar years (you can tell it's been awhile since I bought some checks).
> 
> ...


I used to get red diesel delivered to my shop for ~$3/G.

I equipped 1 truck with an 84G tank and another with a 50G tank and go buy it myself nearby for $2.39/G. I pay with a 3% off CC and end up at $2.32 and since I'm a traveling mulch king, I need my fuel on my truck anyway. Fuel delivered to shop was a waste of money and an inconvenience. Would make sense for family farm, but not me.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

r82230 said:


> If you don't pay the card off in full each month, the 'savings' will vanish I'm afraid.


Yep. Credit and compound interest is like fire - used wisely it can do great things. Used unwisely, it can destroy.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> I used to get red diesel delivered to my shop for ~$3/G.
> 
> I equipped 1 truck with an 84G tank and another with a 50G tank and go buy it myself nearby for $2.39/G. I pay with a 3% off CC and end up at $2.32 and since I'm a traveling mulch king, I need my fuel on my truck anyway. Fuel delivered to shop was a waste of money and an inconvenience. Would make sense for family farm, but not me.


I am with you on the price of delivery. But some day the oil companies will make another shortage with lines at the pump in town. Have to scare people to get a big jump in price you know. So I advice you have some extra storage space for a 100 or 200. Not saying keep it full and you can fill it yourself. But the older I get the more I worry. But I have seen made up shortages several times and having storage was very handy. Besides it would take a hour + out of my day to get fuel in town every time I need it.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The cash back cards/rewards cards are paid for by the merchant via extra fees. The credit card processing fees are pretty outrageous really, I'd have a hard time justifying accepting credit cards if I was a business.

On 1000$ payment, costs something like 10 cents for a debit transaction vs 50-60$ on some credit cards if you are a small biz. This is a few years old from when I was looking at Square terminal.

Edit - A bit cheaper now:

What are *Square's fees*? 2.65% for swiped *payments*, 2.9% + 30¢ per paid *Square*Invoice and 3.4% + 15¢ for manually-entered *payments* and 2.9% + 30¢ for Online Store sales. Read more about *Square's* processing *fees*. Interac debit *cards* are processed at $0.10 per tap and have no other associated *fees*.



r82230 said:


> PS you might be a kind of 'dead beat' to the charge card company, because they are not making much $$$ off of you.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

slowzuki said:


> The cash back cards/rewards cards are paid for by the merchant via extra fees. The credit card processing fees are pretty outrageous really, I'd have a hard time justifying accepting credit cards if I was a business.


CC companies make a little off each transaction of THEIR branded card (there is a lot of folks taking a piece of the transactions fees it seems), naturally their major 'profits' come via interest/late fees. You are right that the merchant pays the front end fees and they can run high (American Express/Discover are usually the highest that I know of).

As far as small business' and the cc fees, I have a vested interest in a local feed store (selling, food plot stuff, grass seed, horse feed, dog/cat/pet feed, etc. and bulk feed / additives for cattle). OUR cc fees that we pay (via getting less $ in our bank, than what the customer paid), run at about 2.45% presently. I'm looking at other vendors presently that charge less over all fees for our size of business (total $ amount/number of transactions).

However, we look at these fees as being less than what it 'costs' us to take a bad check. With our slim gross profit, it doesn't take a very large check to eat up a lot of net profit.

Think like this: if your gross profit is 10%, you sell two different customers $500 of product, your gross profit is $50.


The first one you took a cc, (@ 2.50% merchant fee) so you get $487.50 in you bank the next business day (reducing your gross profit to $37.50 or 7.5%). 


The other customer gives you a check for $500 and it bounces. Now, you got a bounced check fee ($25-$35, will use $25), plus $450 of product that's gone (the $500 sell price minus the 10% / $50 profit, so you are really in the hole by $475). 

You need to sell an additional $4,750 of product (via cash/good checks $4,750 times 10% equals the $475 bad check cost), just to make up for ONE $500 sale.

We have considered charging a sur-charge to use a cc, but with the given market area and competition (TSC store within a 1/2 mile), figured we would 'lose' overall (less sales, less cross selling). We don't take cc from our large customers (bulk sales to cattle), most of them are on 30 day billing, but we do offer some 'cash' discounts to those large customers.

I don't take cc in my hay business, I do take checks (reluctantly). My son does most of the selling, he will get burned sooner or later, with taking checks. IMHO, with regards to taking checks, it is a not a matter of *IF* you will get a bad check, it is a matter *WHEN* you will get a bad check.

Larry


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I haven't had a cheque book in over 5 years, but do get paid by cheque maybe 5-10 times a year by older folks.

Most of my customers Interact e-transfers is their favourite payment method. It costs them 25 cents or something but they can sent it from their phone while I unload, and I can have it in my account via my phone before I leave. They can't reverse it or put a stop payment on it like a CC or cheque. Cash is still my favourite though.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

slowzuki said:


> I haven't had a cheque book in over 5 years, but do get paid by cheque maybe 5-10 times a year by older folks.
> 
> Most of my customers Interact e-transfers is their favourite payment method. It costs them 25 cents or something but they can sent it from their phone while I unload, and I can have it in my account via my phone before I leave. They can't reverse it or put a stop payment on it like a CC or cheque. Cash is still my favourite though.


Doesn't that require them to have your account #? If they are using bill pay via their bank, then it normally takes 1-3 days to process. If transferring funds then I think they need an account # to deposit to.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Must be that part of banking (wireless transfers) works better in Canada.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

I used to be strictly cash or verified check. You can call the bank the check is from to verify if funds are available. I've opened up to PayPal and Venmo. If you are using the service with a CC, I tack on a surcharge. If it's bank direct no issue.

I take full advantage as a consumer  Unless it's a cash discount, I charge everything and pay off before it's due. Rewards are like taxes....companies don't pay them, they work it into their bottom line.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

r82230 said:


> Haven't abandoned farm check book, but close to doing so. Bought my tedder via CC, but dealer didn't let me buy Kuhn system couple of years ago, via cc (different dealers). Purchase almost all farm stuff via cc, even pay electric/telephone/vet bill via cc. Big ticket items, are harder to get on cc usually (fert./seed/chemicals), it seems, so have to resort to checkbook.
> 
> And where/when I have to use checking account, I do online banking. Seems the bank I'm using, will not just make out the check but mail it to the person/business (at no cost to ME, hey, $0.50 is 50 cents in my book. They must get cheaper stamps than I do). This has really reduce my cost of buying checks. Biggest problem with this is my calendar with the checkbook register is out dated (present one is showing the 2016, 2017 & 2018 calendar years (you can tell it's been awhile since I bought some checks).
> 
> ...


I'm with you Larry! Only I don't even bother with a check register! Everything goes into my Quicken, and is checked against my institutions daily!
Dave


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