# From Success to Failure. The Custom business



## Lostin55

I have always been pretty quick to share the funny, not so funny, and the success stories on here. this one is a little different. Maybe it will give some perspective on the challenges of what we do. I have been stewing on the events of recent weeks and figured that I may as well share that too.

As many of you know, we had that really nice article a couple of months ago in Progressive Forage Grower Magazine. Thanks to Lynn Jaynes for that, it was awesome.

With the business growing, it was pretty apparent pretty quickly that the old swather wasn't going to hold up forever. This began the 3 month search for a rotary swather, preferably a Massey Ferguson. After bidding on many, we finally found one at the price and hours we wanted. A few days later came a 3X3 baler that would round out the upgrades. A significant upgrade and investment, to say the least.

Fast forward to getting everything to the place and ready to roll for the year. First cutting starts in a couple of weeks.

I start doing interviews for hired hands and cannot find anybody. I mean can't find a warm body with any experience. Well, maybe one, but he wasn't hire-able, and even then it was questionable. We advertised locally, on social media, with the Wyoming Job Service, here on HT, everywhere that I thought might get us someone half ways qualified. No dice. There are farm hands getting laid off all over and no one wants to work custom haying.

So at this point, there I set with all of this new to me equipment, and no one to run it. The doubt starts to creep in. It wasn't a pleasant feeling to be sure. I can't take a job to put up hay if I don't have the people on board to run equipment. I should mention that my main guy last year went back into retirement, and has no interest in working this year. The part timers have all moved on. All except one, and she has a full time job.

We had a meeting of the board again, another three beers for the uninitiated, and talked it over. it was looking pretty gloomy.

The phone started ringing. Of course that little article got some attention from some big outfits. Over 1200 acres of grass hay on one of them.

The pressure got pretty high to make a decision. I had a choice to make. It was either quit the day job and go full time custom haying or back off entirely. Without any help I couldn't justify quitting the dayjob, although I could have hired a gunsel at that point and made it work. It was a roll the dice situation at best.

So in a nutshell, there I am with a pile of newer machinery and no way to put it to work. With that equipment came the debt load right behind it. At some point I realized that a sizable chunk would be required to service that debt. I also came to the realization that I couldn't do it by myself.

We made the difficult decision to hang it up and sell out the equipment that is owned by the company. We are keeping our stuff and will continue to do our own haying. So far, about half of it is sold or pending sale, and we have half of it to sell yet.

Talk about a roller coaster ride over the last few weeks. We have had highs and lows of epic proportions. In the end, we will go back to relaxing. We will put up our own hay and maybe some lease ground yet. We might actually have time for some R&R this summer, instead of running wide open. The fish might not like it, but we will.

Looking back at a whirlwind last year and a half, I realized that we built a successful business. Our plans all worked as designed, our business model was good. Everything worked exactly as it should, save for one thing. Hired help.

While we are adjusting to the new normal, it helps to reflect on all of the good stuff that has happened. I guess that it can be considered a successful failure in some ways.

We won't be in the custom business, at least for now, but I know that the market is there for it. I proved my theory. Today, that is just going to have to be enough.


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## Tim/South

That must be a tough pill to swallow. I have enjoyed following your progress, adventures and misadventures. We can all learn from what fellow people in the hay business experience.

It is a shame you could not find the help and see just how far the business would have taken you.

Kind of like climbing to the top of a mountain and finding yourself there alone.


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## hillside hay

Labor is tough here as well. Hopefully it will just be a temporary setback. My new tack is looking for partners rather than employees. That comes with its own set of challenges but the only way I can grow in my area. Have around 1.50 per bale in labor. Still can't find folks.


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## RockyHill

Just had time for a quick read. Will respond more later but this week out here with some difficult hay I was ready to load Jeff & the Dewalt grease gun in the motorhome and come begging for the job.

More thoughts later.

Shelia


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## paoutdoorsman

Congrats & Sorry Lostin55! I don't envy you for having to make that decision.


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## Teslan

Maybe Lynn Jaynes will do a follow up article on how hard it is to find suitable help for haying. I suspect that is a problem for all of us if we needed good help. It's either train unexperienced people, put up with lousy experienced people. Or just not get big enough to need people at all. The biggest problem is that the best seasonal employees won't be seasonal for long and find full time work. Or they would like a part time job for certain hours. Haying does not happen during certain hours.


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## Lewis Ranch

Your not the only one. I've scaled way back on custom hay making getting rid of all but 2 or 3 large jobs. Problem is one week we may work 100hrs and next week is a flop, to inconsistent and seasonal for anyone to keep the job. I've gone more into spraying where I can be a one man show 9 times outa ten.


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## r82230

Thanks for sharing, your lessons maybe extremely valuable to some. Makes me certain to stay my size (very small by your standards), as a kind of 'one man show'. I could still use some help sometimes (I keep trying to tell the better half, that's why I keep her around :lol: :lol. If you believe that last part, I will sell you an ice burg too.

Have to admit see help wanted signs all around me, seems the folks that get up with an alarm clock already have a job, the remainder, just want the pay (hand out).

If I didn't enjoy doing my own hay (and having a off farm job), your offer intrigued me.

Sorry for the conditions that were thrown your way.

Larry


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## Hayman1

Thanks for sharing and I know that was a hard decision to make but at least you were ahead of the curve and faced the problem head on. It seems so many times that businesses just can't accept where they are or have no clue where they are and keep throwing good money after bad rapidly building debt load.

In the "I feel a little of your pain", I have been looking for a kid that would help with hay stacking late in evening or early am whatever their schedule would support. I have been looking since 2001 when I bought my place. Still looking, kids around here don't want to do hard physical work.


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## NewBerlinBaler

For what it's worth, I see another cautionary tale here - debt. I know taking on debt can help you grow your business but it can also put you in a quick bind when things go wrong. That's why I always pay cash for everything. I won't get very big very fast but when things don't go according to plan, I never lose any sleep and being debt-free always gives me the option to just wait it out if there's a business downturn.


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## Lostin55

NewBerlinBaler said:


> For what it's worth, I see another cautionary tale here - debt. I know taking on debt can help you grow your business but it can also put you in a quick bind when things go wrong. That's why I always pay cash for everything. I won't get very big very fast but when things don't go according to plan, I never lose any sleep and being debt-free always gives me the option to just wait it out if there's a business downturn.


A cautionary tale for sure. We operated on a cash basis last year. All equipment purchased by the business was purchased outright until these two recent ones, which were sizable.
Worst case scenario, I can personally make the payments without doing any custom work, but the business can't. That would defeat the purpose of the entire plan though, and is not what I want to do. Therefore, it all goes up for sale, that which is owned by the company and used for custom work. My personal equipment stays. The rental equipment will stay and we will continue forward with that.
It is a bit complicated to explain, but through personal to business rental we used personal equipment to custom hay, in addition to equipment that the business outright purchased last year. The business owns two balers, the swather trailer, swather, and the rental equipment. I own the tractors, the little baler, the rake, and the stacker. Make that two stackers.
As mentioned above, I was moving rapidly once the decision was made, as the time is now to sell equipment and the capital can be used elsewhere.
It is by no means a fire sale on equipment. We bought everything right enough, and off season, to at least recoup input(purchase) costs from it.


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## danwi

One thing that drives the demand for custom work is the fact that alot of people have a hard time hiring employees for the job so then they think that instead of employees they will hire a custom operator with employees to do the job but as we are seeing, custom operators are now having problems finding employees which makes it difficult for them to do timely work and take on more. The same scenario also applies to equipment the farm owner doesn't want to make the huge investment in equipment, so he decides to hire it custom done then as the custom operator take on more work it requires him to make a larger investment in equipment to harvest all the work he has in a timely manner. The place my wife works in a factory (food production) they are expanding butt having a hard time hiring new employees, she is scheduled to work 7 out of 8 days (12 hour shifts) with one day off in the middle. And they have the people that are working there now quitting because they work so much overtime.


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## PaMike

This is another reminder of how difficult running a business, any business can be.. I think there are many people that would actually enjoy part time farm work, but they were never exposed to the lifestyle. I am amazed at the number of people that head to the gym or go out on our local walking trails yet would never sign up for a part time physical labor job...


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## Teslan

PaMike said:


> This is another reminder of how difficult running a business, any business can be.. I think there are many people that would actually enjoy part time farm work, but they were never exposed to the lifestyle. I am amazed at the number of people that head to the gym or go out on our local walking trails yet would never sign up for a part time physical labor job...


many people think of a part time job as one they can do on specific days for specific hours. Like I can work Friday afternoon or Tuesday morning. That could work at Mcdonalds but not farming.


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## mlappin

Lostin55 said:


> Looking back at a whirlwind last year and a half, I realized that we built a successful business. Our plans all worked as designed, our business model was good. Everything worked exactly as it should, save for one thing. Hired help.


Lack of good help got us out of the dairy business (that and I hate milking cows).

Lack of good help got me out of squares and into rounds.

Lack of good help pretty much keeps our operation the size it is now, if we have to just me and father can get it all planted and harvested by ourselves, may take longer but it can be done.


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## somedevildawg

I've been involved in many businesses, there is a very old adage...."good help is hard to find"....it's true in every business. When ya get a good one, you have to pay them or they will go elsewhere, it's just hard finding THAT guy/gal....

You're doing the right thing.....life is too short


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## Tim/South

Back when we did square bales, the local teens would work. Then help began to get harder to find.

A guy up the road would get what few workers there were. We paid the same, even picked the hay up with a bale wagon but hand stacked in the barn. They still chose to work for the other guy.

Found out he would fill 2 coolers with beer and tell the teens not to drink any because they were underage. The guys would take a short beer break after each trailer was stacked in the barn.

Never heard of anything bad happening because of the beer.


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## Vol

Tim/South said:


> Back when we did square bales, the local teens would work. Then help began to get harder to find.
> 
> A guy up the road would get what few workers there were. We paid the same, even picked the hay up with a bale wagon but hand stacked in the barn. They still chose to work for the other guy.
> 
> Found out he would fill 2 coolers with beer and tell the teens not to drink any because they were underage. The guys would take a short beer break after each trailer was stacked in the barn.
> 
> Never heard of anything bad happening because of the beer.


That sounded like Ernie.....the fella down the road. Several years ago, you would drive by his place at hay time and the field would be crawling with boys where he baled and dropped on the ground. There would be a half a dozen boys gathering bales and 2-3 on the wagons. And at least two tractors going pulling wagons. They would stack in his barn lickety split.

Come to find out, Ernie paid them in pot. Oh well.

Back in the seventies and eighties if you paid a fair wage you could get some help....that all seemed to change in and around the nineties.

Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586

So sorry to here your backing out of the custom. It's hard and sometimes wonder the same thing here. I always wonder if I should have toughed it out a couple more years in the factory. Still hanging in there at this point though. Good luck with the new direction.


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## swmnhay

Sounds familiar,everyone I talk to can't find help.And some help they do have doesn't have very good work ethics.Dont show up some day or late.Or on the ph causing other problems and accidents.Karens sons only had 2 apply in 3 months.One didn't show the day he was supposed to start and the other made it 3 of the first 6 days and late 2 of the other days.


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## hillside hay

Here I was planning to get my first up lickety split and head your way! Seems finding help is a common problem. Defies logic. My brothers and I did custom stacking all through our teens. Made some good money. Probably handled 100-120000 bales every year. Had a good time doing it as well. And still had the energy to give em something to talk about Sunday morning

I think eventually you'll make it. Surely the haybug will bite someone out your way.


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## Lostin55

I should update this thread. 
We were successful selling the business equipment. We were almost successful backing out of the custom work. Jobs keep calling, and while I would like to say no, it's tough to. Some I have said no to, some I have not. 
I have actually picked up some new customers, and they were cherry picked. From what I hear, the word over the tailgate is that we do excellent, efficient work, but can be tough to get. That may be to my benefit here in a few years when everything gets lined out.
The option is there if I were to decide to make the jump. It may happen sooner rather than later. I just turned down another 400 acre place this morning.


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## RockyHill

Glad you got the equipment sold; as for the custom work it's just normal (maybe abnornal?) for farmers to keep on (and on, and on, etc) doing what they do. Enjoy whatever you're doing.

Not many a day goes by that either Jeff or I will comment about that job we should have taken in Wyoming  . Seeing that hillside that you were on recently stays in my mind but, well nevermind.

Fairly certain that "in a few years" if we head that way with our cordless grease gun, it will be part of our looking for a nursing home and not employment 

Shelia


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## FarmerCline

Lostin55 said:


> I should update this thread.
> We were successful selling the business equipment. We were almost successful backing out of the custom work. Jobs keep calling, and while I would like to say no, it's tough to. Some I have said no to, some I have not.
> I have actually picked up some new customers, and they were cherry picked. From what I hear, the word over the tailgate is that we do excellent, efficient work, but can be tough to get. That may be to my benefit here in a few years when everything gets lined out.
> The option is there if I were to decide to make the jump. It may happen sooner rather than later. I just turned down another 400 acre place this morning.


 It sounds like there certainly is the demand in your area for custom haying.....I'm sure it's hard to turn down the calls for jobs.

I should have just sold out my operation here and took you up on that job haying out there for the summer. At least I would have been making money while still doing something I enjoy rather than losing it. Who knows if things don't take a turn for the better soon I might just be selling out anyway.


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## skyrydr2

The consensus here for sure is HELP! If you dont take care of them they will surely take care of you....
Personally I could care less about my neighbors or any other lazy bastard the does nothing for them selves . I despise democrats for their welfare hand outs.. this is why it is hard to even find help.. why work when i can do nothing and still get by...
I raise beef, produce and harvest hay for my beef and horse customers, and work a 50 hr a week job. Ans while manning the farm garden and stand I get poeple complain about the price? 
I tell them if the help out for a day they can have what ever they want for free! I have NEVER had a single person help,most were appaulled at the thought of it as they handed me there debit card. I am the only legitament working farm in my city left too.
So to all the lazy bumbs out there.. starve.. you get no handouts from me!


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## Lostin55

RockyHill said:


> Glad you got the equipment sold; as for the custom work it's just normal (maybe abnornal?) for farmers to keep on (and on, and on, etc) doing what they do. Enjoy whatever you're doing.
> 
> Not many a day goes by that either Jeff or I will comment about that job we should have taken in Wyoming  . Seeing that hillside that you were on recently stays in my mind but, well nevermind.
> 
> Fairly certain that "in a few years" if we head that way with our cordless grease gun, it will be part of our looking for a nursing home and not employment
> 
> Shelia


The good news is that the place with the hillside is the only dry ground place that we have ever done. Most of the fields are large and flat. Not exactly flat I guess, more like in plane, for the purposes of being able to irrigate them. 
With the benefit of hindsight, I can see that had I decided to do it full time I would have had the work.


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## somedevildawg

Lostin55 said:


> The good news is that the place with the hillside is the only dry ground place that we have ever done. Most of the fields are large and flat. Not exactly flat I guess, more like in plane, for the purposes of being able to irrigate them.
> With the benefit of hindsight, I can see that had I decided to do it full time I would have had the work.


The real question, and I suppose the jury is still out, would you have made money.....at the end of the day that's what really matters. Equipment breakdowns, not having time to take care of your own, etc....it all eats into the bottom line, one of my reasons for not.....and the fact that I'm a bit higher than anyone else...I suppose I could change that, but I'm not sure I'm high enuf


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## Teslan

Lostin55 said:


> The good news is that the place with the hillside is the only dry ground place that we have ever done. Most of the fields are large and flat. Not exactly flat I guess, more like in plane, for the purposes of being able to irrigate them.
> With the benefit of hindsight, I can see that had I decided to do it full time I would have had the work.


i thought you already knew you would have the work? Just no help.


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## Lostin55

I knew we would have the work. The sheer volume of phone calls is surprising, and the continued word of mouth.


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## PaMike

Lostin55 said:


> I knew we would have the work. The sheer volume of phone calls is surprising, and the continued word of mouth.


I don't know, I think I would continue looking for some help... all it takes is the right person and you could have good help for a number of years...the wrong person, and well, you know the drill...


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## Lewis Ranch

With the kind of money running a stack wagon seems to make I believe I would up and quit my day job. I might be missing something, maybe the wagon doesn't make all that much cash or you have one hell of a day job. Gotta be worth a shot for a few years anyway


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## Teslan

Lewis Ranch said:


> With the kind of money running a stack wagon seems to make I believe I would up and quit my day job. I might be missing something, maybe the wagon doesn't make all that much cash or you have one hell of a day job. Gotta be worth a shot for a few years anyway


It used to be good money for guys to own a NH stacker and go around doing just custom stacking. Until the price of the stackers got way to crazy high. I knew several guys in the 80s whose fathers owned a stacker and made pretty good money. But even the used ones are pricey now.


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## Lostin55

Lewis Ranch said:


> With the kind of money running a stack wagon seems to make I believe I would up and quit my day job. I might be missing something, maybe the wagon doesn't make all that much cash or you have one hell of a day job. Gotta be worth a shot for a few years anyway


To be very honest, I do have one hell of a day job. I can't deny that.


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## Lostin55

Teslan said:


> It used to be good money for guys to own a NH stacker and go around doing just custom stacking. Until the price of the stackers got way to crazy high. I knew several guys in the 80s whose fathers owned a stacker and made pretty good money. But even the used ones are pricey now.





Teslan said:


> It used to be good money for guys to own a NH stacker and go around doing just custom stacking. Until the price of the stackers got way to crazy high. I knew several guys in the 80s whose fathers owned a stacker and made pretty good money. But even the used ones are pricey now.


I got mine bought right, and have spared no expense getting and keeping it right. It has more than paid for itself. The margins on it are very high, and given the speed that we can both run it, there is big money on the table.


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## panhandle9400

You can find help with a H2A visa . Get extra visas in case you send them packing .


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## hillside hay

Pretty sure he doesn't want his equipment tore up.


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## Teslan

hillside hay said:


> Pretty sure he doesn't want his equipment tore up.


People with or without a H2A visa can tear things up equally as well.


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## Lostin55

Teslan said:


> People with or without a H2A visa can tear things up equally as well.


They may be more likely to be able to fix my computer's while waiting for parts, however.


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## MT hayer

This is quite a story Lostin. I can see all sides of it. I guess I go by this, if you enjoy what you do, you never work. I used to do dirt work in the oil field, and I decided one day, that instead of making someone else money, I should just make my own! No doubt there was a learning curve, but so nice to be your own boss, and to get calls out of the blue for a hay or dirt job. I enjoy being outside, meeting people, and not knowing what the adventure might be.
I am in the same boat. My table is overflowing with work, and no help. I fix my own things which saves a lot, and you have to be able to do more with one person. Updating machinery is a must. It doesn't have to be new, but in good repair. I keep track of down time so I know what machine needs to be retired or fixed for the next year. I do dirt work, work hay ground, and other jobs. I stay really busy for 8 months or so, then some repair time.

I am entertaining the idea of, instead of paying a wage to some one, rent the piece of machinery to them, as an incentive to be there. That way they don't show, no pay. If they work with me, good money is made in a short time. Any one else tried this?
I will write more later, I need to go feed calves!


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