# Poor Poor Pitiful me.......



## ARD Farm

Another 'unrealistic expectations' this time in this evenings newspaper in the editorial section.

BTW, it's the Monroe Evening News, Thursday, August 9th, page 4A

Direct quote.... My comments inserted italicized......









*Farmers shoudn't charge so much for hay*

As a child growing up on a farm, when things got tough, such as a drought, the neighbors would all pull together and share with each other.

..._I doubt she grew up on a farm. Farming is for profit at least last time I checked and always has been....._

Today, that is such a different story. I found this fact out when I went to purchase hay for my horses. The few neighbors that do have hay are selling it for an outrageous price. They would rather make an extreme profit than help out their neighbors in need. My pasture is dead and all I have to feed my horses last years hay just to sustain them.

..._You charge what the market will bear according to value, last time I checked rare commodities cost a lot. Here, hay is a rare commodity. She's a real person of the earth. Her pasture is dormant, so is her cranial area IMO....._

My husband and I discussed it and we would rather pit our horses down than to let them starve. They are rescue horses that have been through that once. That is why we have them and it would be inhumane to put them through that again.

..._If you can't afford them you had no business getting them in the first place. Slaughter of equines has been legalized here. Maybe you should cut your losses and butcher them....._

I am all for farmers making a profit, but we report gas gouging, why not hay gouging? I can even see charging double but i refuse to pay $10 a bale and some are even charging up to $30. Is greed worth seeing neighbors livestock suffer?

...._In the broadest sense of the word, owning horses isn't owning livestock, it's like owning a boat except with a boat, it's a hole in the water you pour money into. A horse is a hole in the barn... Hay gouging? You have to be kidding me. This lady has no idea just how tough it is this year for many producers, she probably has no idea what it takes to produce a quality bale at any time in any year....._

I was lucky and found hay at a somewhat reasonable price but what about those who haven't found it yet? I pray that those who do still have hay find it in their hearts to think of the animals and not their greed,

..._I sincerely hope that whomever she got the 'cheap' hay from isn't a poster on this site and that the check isn't rubber._

Just thought I'd share that 'letter to the editor with all of you....
...

.....


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## steve in IN

BITCH. Thats putting it mildly. Glad shes not my wife.I am sure she complained when it she was buying it for two bucks from some weekend warrior. If sh had a stable supplier instead of buying the cheapest hay she could find she would have hay. All of my regular long term customers are getting all of thier hay. This year will open a few peoples eyes and thier wallets.


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## Mike120

We had to listen to the same bleeding hearts last year with the drought in this part of Texas.....While I was importing hay. They get rid of the slaughter facilities, can't feed their rescue animals, and expect everyone else to support them. That's what happens when stupid people turn livestock into pets.


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## urednecku

Issue a public challenge for her...to produce hay at the price she now wants to pay, and still have enough left over for her to eat and buy grain for her horsie.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Yep. I can see her now. 15 horses and a 2 acre pasture. Sure her pasture is dead! She has to feed last years hay? I am glad she still has some. Why didn't she share it with her neighbors last year?

Steve, you always crack me up. I like to start the day off with a good laugh.


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## swmnhay

steve in IN said:


> BITCH. Thats putting it mildly. Glad shes not my wife.I am sure she complained when it she was buying it for two bucks from some weekend warrior. If sh had a stable supplier instead of buying the cheapest hay she could find she would have hay. All of my regular long term customers are getting all of thier hay. This year will open a few peoples eyes and thier wallets.


So would these same people go in to a feed store and demand to pay less for some oats?I've been weeding out these types of customers.


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## HALLSHAY

You gougers!!! How could you charge $400 a ton for hay and sleep at night? That might cost a whole $130 a month to feed a horse! You could fill your tank ALL the way with gas with that kind of a wad. I bet you could even go out to dinner at McD's with the leftover. Truth is that hobbies cost money and we all work hard so we have some time and money to do a few of the things we want to do. I owned a bad-ass Malibu boat when I was a little younger. When it was all said and done and we sold it, It worked out to over $100 per HOUR to own. I have a hard time not spending $130 a month on toys for my 2 kids on random Walmart trips!


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## somedevildawg

Oh so now you gotta bring boats into the equation, thanks.....I think I'm at about 500 an hour if I HAD to think about it......I try not to...


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## swmnhay

*EXACTLY! Horses are a hobby and there is no way someone should support someone elses HOBBY.*

*I like to fish.I would hate to guess how much the fish I eat cost me per lb.I know I could buy it a lot cheaper but it is MY hobby and I pay for it!*

*Maybe horsey person would like to pitch in and buy a tank of gas for my boat?







*


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Cy, If it wasn't for Karen catching all the fish, think about how much that would cost then?


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## swmnhay

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> Cy, If it wasn't for Karen catching all the fish, think about how much that would cost then?


Cy -7 walleye Karen -1

So about 12 lbs of fillets

Boat $12,000-10% annual= $1200
boat license $30
fishing licenses $40
boat gas $100
pickup fuel $100
snacks for in boat $100
beer $200

$1770 div by 12 lbs of meat =$147.50 per lb









Karen just needs to catch more fish to get our cost per lb down!!!


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## mlappin

Mike120 said:


> We had to listen to the same bleeding hearts last year with the drought in this part of Texas.....While I was importing hay. They get rid of the slaughter facilities, can't feed their rescue animals, and expect everyone else to support them. That's what happens when stupid people turn livestock into pets.


Pretty much what the government has been doing for years. Turning stupid people into pets that the rest of us can support.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

*I figured the beer tab would equal the cost of the boat!







*


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## mlappin

only $200 for beer?

Not a fisherman myself. Within five minutes I get bored and start taking the boat apart or power slam the beer and ready to go home. Just can't stand to sit still that long. With the Olympics being on and in England this year, it's most likely the most I've watched the boob tube in years. Flights are hell for me, drop a wad in the airport lounge, get on plane, hopefully sleep most of the way.


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## swmnhay

We actually don't drink much beer in the boat.Operating the boat same as driving a car and can get a DWI at .08

Have a few beers afterwards with fresh fish!!!


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## Chessiedog

I just don't understand why you guys think it is ok for hay prices to climb. Everyone knows that grass is free! "we report gas gouging" *really*? When did that ever do anything? What about diesel fuel? Something that takes less *refining* then gas, but it's higher.








Earth to women come in ! Earth to woman come in ! Oh dang she headed back to her plantet already .


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## Teslan

People in Florida and California have been paying $10 a bale for years from what I'm told. Time for the rest of the horsey people in the country to get used to it. Oh and we give plenty of hay to the neighbor for free. He happily goes out and picks up the hay we missed with the baler in the field. He happily takes the "inferior" hay that others pick over and cusses those that don't buy that hay from us. His horses haven't died yet from that "inferior" hay.

I sold some hay to a lady that runs a horse boarding facility this week. She said she probably won't be in business next year thanks to high hay prices. I said why don't you just raise your boarders rent or charge then a hay price surcharge. She looked at me like she had never thought of that.


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## RockmartGA

_"As a child growing up on a farm, when things got tough, such as a drought, the neighbors would all pull together and share with each other. Today, that is such a different story. I found this fact out when I went to purchase hay for my horses. The few neighbors that do have hay are selling it for an outrageous price. They would rather make an extreme profit than help out their neighbors in need."_

Reminds me of the old story:

Young couple looking to buy a house. They spot a man sitting on his porch next door and go introduce themselves. They ask "How are the neighbors around here?" to which the man replied "Depends. How are the neighbors where you live now?"


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## cwright

To them "its just grass" and at the same time don't care or understand the expense and intense labor to produce it.
I doubt she ever sweated a drop in a hayfield.

CW


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## mlappin

I hardly doubt she has ever just "helped" a hay producing neighbor without expecting something in return.

She also needs to realize high prices like these make up for years when hay is selling at or below the cost of production.

I remember one year hauling in loads that were a touch over three tons, had just enough from the sale of the load to fill both tanks on the hay truck and maybe enough leftover for lunch at McDonalds.


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## swmnhay

_Yep,They wouldn't offer to pay a little extra when hay prices were low.They prly wanted it cheaper then also._


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## ARD Farm

I suspect next year, all of this will be a distant memory and hay will be back to 3 bucks a bale.


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## Teslan

It will most likely be lower if moisture and such is normal. In 2002 we had a drought much like we are having now and at the time hay prices went up to $8 a bale. I thought surely hay farmers would like the higher price and wouldn't want to sell it for less then $4 again. But the laws of supply and demand made it so the next year. So I'm hoping this year with small bale prices touching $12 a bale that it won't go below $7 next year if it is a normal moisture year. My dad says he was selling hay for $4 a bale in the early 80s. So why can't the price of hay go up. Everything else does.


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> It will most likely be lower if moisture and such is normal. In 2002 we had a drought much like we are having now and at the time hay prices went up to $8 a bale. I thought surely hay farmers would like the higher price and wouldn't want to sell it for less then $4 again. But the laws of supply and demand made it so the next year. So I'm hoping this year with small bale prices touching $12 a bale that it won't go below $7 next year if it is a normal moisture year. My dad says he was selling hay for $4 a bale in the early 80s. So why can't the price of hay go up. Everything else does.


I also, sold squares for $4 in and around 1980....and your right....most things have tripled in price or more since 1980.

Regards, Mike


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## ARD Farm

IMO, hay and straw are both extremely market driven and because there really isn't a benchmark standard that sets the price per unit, ir's even more volitale.

From a financial standpoint I'd like to see hay stay at an elevated price, we all know that the inputs aren't coming down at all, if anything they are increasing, especally motor fuel and fertilizer.

**My fertilizer cost went way down using a foliar feed but as this was my first full year using it and this year turned out to be a bust, I'm not entirely sure it works as advertised. That will take another, more normal year to come up with some solid data that it does, indeed work as advertised. If it does, 3 dollar a bale hay will still be like 5 dollar a bale hay using granular (fingers crossed, toes too...)

The problem is, if hay and straw stay at elevated prices, the users will curtail purchasing it by herd reduction or in the case of horse people and specialty animal owners, dump the horses or animals and then, we have an overabuncance of hay and straw and it becomes a buyers market and prices go to rock bottom.

I'm getting ready to run off 17 acres of Alfalfa/Timothy for a contract owner that will split as a share job. Normally I prefer to be paid for services but in this temporary climate, I'll take the forage and sell it and be farther ahead. That probably won't be the case next year.

I keep wondering when this ethanol from cellulose (grass) will take off and basically wipe out the commercial hay business. I see there is mounting pressure to eliminate or reduce the corn subsidity that e producers are getting from the government to offset the price paid for e-corn.


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## Teslan

ARD Farm said:


> I keep wondering when this ethanol from cellulose (grass) will take off and basically wipe out the commercial hay business. I see there is mounting pressure to eliminate or reduce the corn subsidity that e producers are getting from the government to offset the price paid for e-corn.


Why would ethanol from grass wipe out commercial hay business? I would think it would just cause the price of grass hay and such forages to go up as more would grow switchgrass or whatever type of grass works best for ethanol. Much like I believe forced ethanol keeps corn prices higher then they would be without it.


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## ARD Farm

Maybe not wipe it out but certainly change it at least in how we do business with the public. I, for one, would rather sell at a pre-determined price per ton than deal with constantly fluctuating revenue.

I don't know if corn prices are artificially bolstered by ethanol because e-plants typically contract corn at a lower than market price but it does take a large portion of the once available commodity off the market and puts it into something less than satisfactory from a consumer standpoint.

I can see that occuring with grass to ethanol and grass is actually a better source of alcohol than corn, or at least shelled corn. The stalk is where it's at, not the kernel. In this country shelling corn is the norm instead of chopping the entire plant and making alcohol from that. Cutting, bailing and shipping grass to an e-plant is a whole lot easier, even easier than cutting, bailing and selling on the open market at fluctuating prices. Of course it would be large rounds and storage isn't an issue either. E-plants don't care if it's green and smells good. They are going to cook it, not eat it.

In a lot of ways, alcohol from grasses is better than alcohol from corn. Corn is used in way too many foodstuffs for human consumption. Grass isn't used in anything that humans consume at least directly.....
...............and I'd like to see corn get back to a reasonablr cost per bushel. I liked heating my home with corn until 2 years ago when the PPBu got too high and I had to gp to an alternate fuel source.

Bottom line is that without constant government intervention and funding, e-plants would go tits up no matter what they cook for alcohol. Ethanol is a looser for the public and for businessmen.


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## Teslan

Yes that would change the market alot. Not really wipe it out. I wonder if when making ethanol from grass. What quality does the grass need to be. Does rained on grass hay differ from non rained on grass hay?


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## mlappin

Problem I see with grass based ethanol, and maybe prices have gone up, but the last I seen they only paid $30-40/ton for the feedstock. Maybe because that was in the experimental stage and prices will go up, but when in our area we have rents that are getting close to $200/acre on average, raising a crop that takes a bare minimun of 5 tons/acre just to pay the rent doesn't make much sense. Then of course we have fuel costs, wear and tear, net wrap and most importantly have to be able to pay ones self for the time involved. Kinda reminds me of baling corn stover, we only do it for our own use, by time we get the stuff baled, figure our time involved and the fertilizer that's getting removed by taking the stover off.

Might make sense in parts of the country with ultra low rents and the ground just isn't fit for much more than switch grass, but it wouldn't work here.

Far as quality goes I would think it work much like hay, the better the quality grass or feedstock the more ethanol you'd get out of it.


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## TheFastMan_2

http://lansing.craig...3229963154.html

"To the people advertising $9 and $10 for a bale of hay, SHAME ON YOU!

Times are tough and you feel you have the right to rip people off. At sale in Williamston you can buy hay today for $3.60 per bale.
Beware of the bottom feeding predators trying to over charge for hay!"

Here is another pitty story I saw on Craigslist tonight. I saw another one a while back saying about the same thing, but they could understand a little increase because "farmers need to feed their families". Like they didn't before? Plus, it said it wouldn't mean their horses would starve because "things won't grow". How dumb can you be? It ticked me off so bad I nearly reamed them a new butt hole in an email. Yeah, the hay you are buying for $3/bale now is twice rained on weeds and you are too dumb to know the difference. People who are only out looking for a deal tick me off. I had a guy last year turn me down at $3/bale grass hay because he was getting hay for $1/bale. Must be great stuff. It's simple supply and demand, but I guess that's not simple enough. People like this must be out of touch with reality. We are in a severe drought and when there is no rain nothing grows! I haven't even heard of any 3rd cutting and any 2nd was sparse this year.

I saw at work (TSC) today we are selling some 1st cut orchard grass/alfalfa bales for $9.29/bale. For a second there is almost laughed, but that's actually not a bad price right now!

Just because they are advertising $9 and $10 hay doesn't mean you have to buy it! That doesn't mean anyone has to buy it! You have to pay to play!


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## somedevildawg

I've got lots of prewashed hay this year, to me..... I need to get more for this hay.....why because I went through the trouble of babysitting this hay while mother nature washed it, if you happen to be a serious horsey person or a picky show bovine person, I have just the stuff, ain't gotta wash this grass, just feed it up.....horses love it, no respiratory problems with this Bermuda grass....the reality is I have burnt ALOT more fossil fuel on these harvests.....problem is I sell mine prewashed hay for 5-6 dollars a bale locally, to ship is high and a pita if I can't get 9 a bale it certainly is not worth the hassle, depending of course on the length of haul.


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## Teslan

prewashed. Ha ha ha. I'm gonna have to advertise hay like that sometime I have some rained on hay. I'll have to see how people react to that. People seem to like prewashed salad. Why not hay? I have some twice prewashed alfalfa that tested only one point lower RFV then the non washed alfalfa. It just isn't as green and pretty.


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## somedevildawg

I tell em that and they sometimes give me a funny look, I always wonder what's going on inside that head, wish I could be a fly on the window when they leave, I bet there's some funny conversation on the ride home, lol. I never ever call it "rained on" I'll let them figure it out.....or not


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## Chessiedog

_ Local an ad found on craigs list _... 
* Come on HAY people...we've gotten the rain! Any reasonable priced hay? - $3*

We've gotten several good rains and more coming our way! Anyone willing to start selling their hay at a reasonable price yet? We can't affort $8-10-14 a bale!! I can not believe anyone is paying that price. I need about 50 more bales of GRASS to get through winter...willing to pay the normal 3-4 a bale. I have seen lower prices around but are way too far for me to drive...with the price of gas would still cost a small fortune.

*So I guess because we've gotten couple of inches now every is thing good ...Never mind the 8 inches or so we have not gotten !*


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## haybaler101

Yeah and gas is too high for them to drive but diesel is still dirt cheap for us to make hay with!


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## somedevildawg

Of course silly, we don't have to pay over the road taxes, everybody knows that......including idiots on CL


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## steve in IN

Just ask any of the "FARM EXPERTS". Farmers dont pay any taxes its all taxfree profits. When they tell me all the money I am making I just smile and say"write a check I will go away and then you can have all this money and glory". Never any takers yet. Must not be asking enough.


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## Teslan

Don't you know that after a 2 inch rain you should have instantly 2 foot high high fields waiting to be cut and baled for $3? If we got a 2 inch rain here it would take a week or so just for the hay to come out of dormancy. And by then it would be to dry to grow any.


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## JD3430

steve in IN said:


> Just ask any of the "FARM EXPERTS". Farmers dont pay any taxes its all taxfree profits. When they tell me all the money I am making I just smile and say"write a check I will go away and then you can have all this money and glory". Never any takers yet. Must not be asking enough.


Aren't we the ones who pay retail prices for the products we buy, only to sell the products we produce at wholesale prices?


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## steve in IN

Yes we are. We are also the ones who pay all the property taxes for the services that these people require. I dont mind paying on my home and buildings but my bare land and personal property taxes are just plain ridiculous and now we are going to pay 4 years taxes in less than a year because of a homeowner who had a problem with a farm house in his neighbor hood.


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## cwright

Chessiedog said:


> _Local an ad found on craigs list _...
> * Come on HAY people...we've gotten the rain! Any reasonable priced hay? - $3*
> 
> We've gotten several good rains and more coming our way! Anyone willing to start selling their hay at a reasonable price yet? We can't affort $8-10-14 a bale!! I can not believe anyone is paying that price. I need about 50 more bales of GRASS to get through winter...willing to pay the normal 3-4 a bale. I have seen lower prices around but are way too far for me to drive...with the price of gas would still cost a small fortune.
> 
> *So I guess because we've gotten couple of inches now every is thing good ...Never mind the 8 inches or so we have not gotten !*


I think I would post a reply add. Something like:

"Used hay equipment for sale. Tractor, rake, baler, tedder, mower conditioner, stacker accumulator wagons and trucks. Very low hours and in excellent condition.
Make your own 3 dollar bales of hay today.
100,000 dollars.
Payback on investment at 3 dollars a bale is about 10 to 15 years depending on rain and fertilizer cost and other unforeseen varibles.
Addition help may be obtained by prying TV remotes and game controllers from neighborhood teenagers who need to burn off excess fat any how.
You also may need to consider selling the hay burner.


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## HALLSHAY

Should add "Will still need to keep day job to eat. $3 will only go to cover equipment cost, most years"


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## Bob M

My Fertilizer and land rent is over $3.00/bale


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## Mike120

In trying to recover my fields from last years drought, I had good rains and threw a lot of fertilizer at them. Around mid-summer I had just over $3 a bale in fertilizer cost. It was worth it and now I have more of a storage issue....I don't mind that problem.


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