# Round to Square ?



## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

Thinking of going from round bales to large square . Completely new thing to me . My questions are , Am I crazy ? What size of bale is the in thing now ? And my most pressing question is what is the cost per bale for production of said bale . I don't sell a huge amount of hay but it would be easier to ship . I do feed most of my hay which I like to put in the shed , thinking you can put a lot more square pegs in a space then round ones . I realize the cost difference in machines but not sure on twine and other consumables . I know what it takes to make a round bale . what about a big square ?


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Takes as you said, more expensive baler and bigger tractor. With that said, it takes more fuel to run bigger tractor. Can't imagine twine v net would be too much difference

I'm in a similar boat as you. I have wanted to switch for 2-3 years, making and shipping about 1500 4x5s per year.

Seems like there's never a perfectly flat spot to load and round bales like to shift after a few miles down the road. When I do the math, a 3x3 or 3x4 seems to load on the trailer so much more efficiently. All that dead air space eliminated.

In my area, bales will sit 3-9 months. With no tarting, the bottom square bales look like mud and the top bales soak up a lot of rain. Middle layers do ok.
Round bales look pretty good inside after long term outdoor storage. 
Round baler & tractor more maneuverable in my smaller fields. Smaller & easier to store in lower barns. Can be towed with a 3/4 ton truck when the need arises.
Square baler would probably cost me $40-50k, more expense on fuel. 
Every time I see that number, I arrive at the same place-keep round baling. 
I do think a day will come when I buy a big square, but I will keep the round baler around....


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Cost would vary some on the size of twine but for a 3x3 bale it would run roughly 0.60 a bale

A 4 x 5 rd bale would be .75 - 1.00

So not a big difference in cost per ton


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Stacking in the barn you can get so much more hay in the same area with big square bales, I had to have some 1st crop round baled this summer because everyone was so busy and I thought I would try rounds because I could get a round baler for my 100hp tractor. I had a slot in the barn to put them inside, they where 4x5 so I stacked 3 bales on end and put 3 stacks in that space. With 3x3 squares stacked 5 high I would have had 30 bales in the same space instead of 9 round. Also for selling on a regular flat deck trailer you can go 3 wide and 2 or 3 high and throw a strap over and you are good to go. 3x3 work good to feed flakes off of, I don't have any experience with 3x4 but I have thought that when stacking 5 or 6 high maybe the 3x4 would be more stable. I haven;t talked to the horse farm up the road but he bought 2 semi loads of 3x4 wondering how they feed out? You can get more hay baled with a big square as you are never stopping unless you have one of the newfangled round balers that doesn't stop but you need a bigger tractor up front. Good thing about the round baler is you can store some hay outside or it is a little less critical if you get the hay baled and can't get it picked up before a rain. With big square you try to pick them up before a rain.


----------



## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

After exiting dairy, I started baling with used 3x4. Major learning curve. Added a 4x6 round baler , mainly for a backup. Eventually traded big square for a new 3x3. When we started our limiting factor was raking which couldn't give us correct windrow width, hence round cornered squares. 16 wheel rake .......issue solved. For our operation ,stacking 2 3x3s (1800+-#) vs. one 3x4 (1400+-#), is faster . Hit 30+ ton/ hour baling many times with the square. You will be stacking hay after baling, vs. leaving rounds in field. Actually, We same day shed rounds adding a quality element few others offer. We can max out our trailers weight wise with either package. Prefer hauling squares. This was an unusual season,as more rounds were requested, than squares. 
Regarding costs........squares cost more per ton. Having said that, what's the value of ......stacking .delivering, baling capacity, and offering the customer their preferred package.


----------



## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

This year we baled 1750 3x3's and 2000 4x5's. We have good market for both. I think uphayman covered it well. We also pick up all bales each night, but if I am going to get rained out baling, I would rather be caught with rounds in the field instead of squares. Squares are more efficient, but have higher costs. Not as good as market for 3x4's around here.


----------



## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

Sounds like 3x3s is the more preferred here . Not what I was expecting but in my mind I would have said the same thing . The weather/getting them in every night thing is something that concerns me being that Im mostly a one man operation and I have limits to what I can do . That said , just have to find that sweet spot for acres down per day that can be put up .

As far as the speed of baling , in this country that Im in your not going very fast anyway . but also with squares you wont have to back up half a mile to dump a bale so it doesn't roll thru a fence or something  .

And just for curiosity , and exploring all avenues , what is average for doing custom bailing ? just the bailing .

Thanks for the info .


----------



## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

In my area, the cost for custom baling 3x3's ranges from $1 - $1.35 per foot, with an upcharge if crop cutters are utilized.


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

One other thing with big squares is alot of time you will use a little preservative when baling. Unless the hay is bone dry it likes to heat a little in the tight bales and preservative helps with that.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I have been running both a small big square and a large round baler for more than a decade, the square for for more than 2 decades. The square will cost you more per ton to run by a considerable margin. Comparing new to new, the big square will cost a lot more up front, as will the tractor it takes to operate it. Currently a big big square is about 3X the price of a big round, both new. Repair costs will probably be fairly close. Big square is an easier bale to store although it MUST be covered, I think squares are easier to handle. They are definitely easier to ship, and they might be worth a little more per ton than rounds depending on the crop. In some cases squares are a lot easier to feed, again depends on the circumstances. As others mentioned, big squares are not forgiving of moisture. The bigger the bale the worse they are. Just assume a big square baler needs a preservative applicator.


----------



## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

Really am appreciating all the comments . Had not thought of the preservative thing . I do bale a lot of red clover , need that . Biggest question now is , and Im probably buying used , unless I can lease . I have case/newholland , john deere , and massey dealers in my general area . Pros and cons of each ????? Baling ease / monitor , maintenance , and assuming a 3x3 , on the hills of western ky , how much tractor ? Im old school IH and hoping a 1486 I have , weighted down and turned up , will handle it .


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

I have a Krone BP128 3x4 baler and the MF2745 would pulled the baler fairly good, but I was on flat ground. I don't know how it would have done in the hills. Now my Massey was also turbo charged, so I don't really know now much horsepower that added. In order for that tractor to start the baler I had to roll the plunger back otherwise it would stall out the tractor. Once it was running there was no problem. After buying my CaseIH 7130 I would recommend more horsepower; my Case has enough power to start the baler no matter where the plunger is. Your tractor may be better off with a 3x3 baler. The 3x4's stack better than the 3x3's.


----------



## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We run a class 2100rc with a john deere 4640. Full rack of weights on the front. Rear weights and duals. Tires aren't loaded. We bale almost all hill ground and get along fine.


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Depending on what you call hills you could probably do ok with you 1486 dualed up with good tires and weights, the only thing is you aren't able to shift gears up and down when baling. If I was buying a baler and tractor from my experience from the guys that bale my hay I would get a later model massey hesston baler and so I don;t totally break the bank get an older CaseIH magnum with powershift. You can get them in either 2 wheel or front assist and they seem to work pretty well on a big square baler. If you wanted to go cheaper the older Hesston or CaseIH baler seem ok if you can find a good one.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

A 1486 with weights and duals would do the job, although it would not be my first choice. Its hardly enough tractor, and the transmission is not suited at all for big square work. We ran a 1066 in front of our small big square for a few years. That particular baler was small enough that the 1066 was plenty of tractor, but the transmission just stinks. Too hard to change gears, don't count on the TA to be enough. Then if you have to jump between HI and LO range you will learn to curse IH even if you were a die hard IH fan. A classic Magnum is a good entry level choice for a big square baler tractor.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is a video showing why it can take plenty of tractor to handle a big square baler.


----------

