# Bales per Day....



## VA Haymaker

Not sure this is the right forum section, but.....

Just curious - how many square bales of hay you can/do reasonably put up in a day with ONE square baler and crew? This is baled, taken off the field and under cover of some sort, i.e. barn or shed or tarp, etc.

Our yield is probably going to be double this year. Our plan is to have enough wagons to do a maximum of 1,000 bales in a day and pull them under our shelters. They won't be unloaded, but at least they will be under cover. We'll unload another day when it's cooler, i.e. early morning or late evening - BUT, the hay is baled, off the field and let it rain!

Not sure we can do 1,000 bales in a day, but that is a max goal for now. FYI - we stack off the baler onto a wagon. No question - last year, unloading wagons cost us a LOT of time - far away our long pole in the tent. Now we want to avoid that - at least up to 1,000 bales and pulling loaded wagons (left unloaded) into our shelters is our remedy for unloading the same day as baling such that we can put up as many bales as possible in an afternoon.

What's your typical day with one baler and crew?

Bill


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## Teslan

You will have to compare with someone with your exact situation with the wagon thing. But since you asked. When I baled small squares. One baler with one person. One NH stacker and one person. 2000 bales easy in a day. And that's stored inside.

Perhaps another way then hay wagons at some point? I can't imagine finding a crew to deal with hay wagons here.


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## Vol

You will have to define "crew" Bill. If your wagon crew consists of only two people on the wagons I do not think you will have a crew for very long trying to bale 1000 per day.

I think a two man crew stacking wagons in our present age will max out at 6-700 if they are to do it again the next day and the day after.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker

Teslan said:


> You will have to compare with someone with your exact situation with the wagon thing. But since you asked. When I baled small squares. One baler with one person. One NH stacker and one person. 2000 bales easy in a day. And that's stored inside.
> 
> Perhaps another way then hay wagons at some point? I can't imagine finding a crew to deal with hay wagons here.





Vol said:


> You will have to define "crew" Bill. If your wagon crew consists of only two people on the wagons I do not think you will have a crew for very long trying to bale 1000 per day.
> 
> I think a two man crew stacking wagons in our present age will max out at 6-700 if they are to do it again the next day and the day after.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Not really asking about a wagon set-up - just one's typical day with one baler, equipment and whomever you have to help - if anyone. Just curious.

My crew - my family. When my kids get away from me, I've got a decision to make....


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## Trotwood2955

Bill -

Our setup is just like yours, baling on flat wagons right behind the baler. You are smart to have plenty of wagons. That has always been my strategy because I've always thought baling and loading wagons was a breeze compared to unloading. Used to hate when we had less wagons than we do now and had to stop to unload, or not mowing as much down as I wanted because we were limited on wagons.

Now I have enough wagons to put 1000 bales on before needing to stop to unload. For us now this is typically plenty. An average day for us anymore is probably only 500 or so, but mainly because the last couple years we typically have only square baled 2nd and 3rd cut compared to in the past when we baled more first cutting. Takes a lot more acres to get 500-1000 later cutting bales than it does in first cut Timothy cranking out 175+ bales an acre. And with those more acres on later cuttings the more time you spend raking and such, and if the days are shorter it is just hard to get but so many acres done in a day regardless of the bale count.

The most later cutting bales we have done in a day is 950 I think, and we were hustling to get that raked and baled all in one afternoon because of the acres covered. In first cutting, the most I have done is 1200 in one day, plus 50 round bales along with it to finish up. But that was an unusual day as drying conditions were good, there was no dew, and we started baling about 12:30 and finished up about 7 that evening. We also had planned to leave some for the following day but then the forecast changed so ended up baling it all. Covered three different fields, had to go borrow some more wagons, stopping to switch equipment, etc. so it wasn't like we were baling that entire time. But we were still moving pretty good I felt like and we were all ready for bed by that evening. Our "crew" is usually my wife (driving the baler) and my father and me on the wagon stacking. Or sometimes my wife will still be raking while my dad and I get started baling. But usually never more than the three of us. I wouldn't want to have too many back to back 1000 bale days with our labor situation though. Only occasionally is fine. And 500-750/day is usually not bad at all as long as it isn't just a miserable hot day.

Again the baling isn't the part that I mind, it is the unloading. The problem we always had (with myself and dad both working off the farm full time) was when you lucked out with a really nice stretch of weather and could be baling back to back days, it was hard to bale all afternoon, find time to get wagons to unloaded before the next afternoon, and repeat all over again. You hate to not capitalize on the weather window but you can only do so much. But most of the time in those cases we would square bale as much as we could then just round bale the rest.

Back in the day growing up when I worked for my grandfather and some neighbors seemed like we would do 4-600 bales just about every day all summer long as long as the weather was fitting. Bale in the afternoon, unload in the morning, go rake, then bale again. At the time I was having a blast. Don't miss it as much now as I used to!


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## Orchard6

I've done 1,000 bale days a couple times with a 14T! Those are looong days! I dropped all those on the ground and a crew of 8-12 people (family) picked them up on my 20' flat bed and 20' trailer. It worked good at the time but now I prefer baling onto wagons. It's a little slower but I only need myself and 1-2 extra people. Last year I did about 600 in a day that way and could've done more but ran out of field.


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## slowzuki

We live in a similar humid climate I think, can start baling maybe 2 pm and done around 7 for the dew. 5-6 hours window on a good day. If you use acid you can get another 2 hours in.

-Grew up baling on the ground, crews came around after and loaded wagons. On a good day we did 1800 bales no acid. Took up to 16 people. Thats about the limit of a single high cap baler without acid.

-After buying our farm we did this with just 3 people. 500 bales in the loft in a day was brutal, picking up was the time constraint. 400 was normal. Friends and family avoided me in hay season lol.

-Somewhere in here ran a Henry bale loader with a mount on our trailer. That thing will move hay. Easily will pick up 600 bales an hour with a good driver the problem is it swamps the crew.

-Starting pulling racks behind baler - 700-800 bales a day with 3 people was possible on a good day but it went late into the night. Helpers liked the social aspect of stacking wagons together. I didn't like them breathing so much dust.

-Got a single bale basket - 700-800 bales a day near barn was pretty simple, cut out the night work if I had 2 people at the barn working from the start.

-Got 5 more baskets - 1600 bales on a great day with them. Could probably get to 1800 in big fields. Even match of limit in baling and labour to get them in old dairy loft. 1000 bales a day is about the limit when delivering them to customers with only 1 person helping.

I'm struggling to get things done faster due to our weather. I'm building a pole barn so I can park some wagons inside. Last year I ran out of time and round baled 200+ 4x5's that are worthless here. Borrowing a bale unroller to try some rebaling in the next month or so.

Really wish a bale baron was in the cards but they have almost doubled in price since I first priced one years ago.


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## Hayman1

Bill-I try to cut and have ready about a max of 750-800 bales worth which I can get on my 5kicker wagons which i can then put under cover and deliver the wagons to customers the following morning or stack in the barn. Works fine on reasonable, not perfect days. I don't try to bale as fast as I can-it's not worth the equipment damage when you hit a rock or hole. Have my round baler as backup. For the most part I rake the hay before I bale so that takes some of the baling window, typically start raking at 11:30 and baling at 1:30-2 until finished.

I caught a wad of hay as a teenager working as a single wagoner or with one other. The simple fact is you can bale far more with ground drop, and separate crew or crews picking up, it's just more work. When I was in eight grade, my dad and I once picked up 1500 bales and stacked most of them in the mow in one 24 hr period but we picked up from about noon until 3am. I would not recommend you doing that to your kids and we never did it again. We did pick up around a1000 off the ground with a crew of 4 many times. My observation is that you really have to slow baling down when folks are catching bales both for safety and because dry bales jiggle a lot on most hay fields. You largely eliminate that with thrower racks


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## glasswrongsize

Bill, most of my fields are rough enough that I can't bale too fast pulling a wagon, but I agree that (depending on weather/humidity and therefore time to bale per day) 6 or 700 is no problem. I think with a three person (all able bodied enough to take their turn on the wagon) 900-1000 is perfectly doable. One runs the tractor while the other two stack on wagons; the tractor driver drives for 1 load and stacks for two loads; everyone rotates. It is handy if someone else can keep wagons coming/going so changes don't take too much time. With a wagon in-tow, I bale at about 2.2 mph and make 14-20 stroke bales; take out for changing wagons, multiply by hours of baling time and that's my theoretical capacity.
I don't like dew to set on baled hay, so I want mine off the ground before dark. I've changed to an accumulator and grapple. To me, it is actually slower (but less labor intensive) by the time I have to quit baling in time to load before dark. I quit with the wagon riding in 2016 and most I baled this year was 908 bales in the barn before dark spread out over 4 fields.

73, Mark


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## hillside hay

Neighbors did 3000 with a 5070 one day. Crew quit. They have 10 kicker racks too. Most I have done with kickers is 1400. My crew quit too. I have 6. I was paying 20 per hour to boot. Kids want money they just would rather not work for it. The only ones that stuck it out were the girls. Times sure have changed


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## rjmoses

slowzuki said:


> -Got a single bale basket - 700-800 bales a day near barn was pretty simple, cut out the night work if I had 2 people at the barn working from the start.
> 
> -Got 5 more baskets - 1600 bales on a great day with them. Could probably get to 1800 in big fields. Even match of limit in baling and labour to get them in old dairy loft. 1000 bales a day is about the limit when delivering them to customers with only 1 person helping.


I've done 1400 50 lb bales in one day with two EZ-Trail bale baskets, one guy baling, one guy raking, 4 guys in the hay mow and me shuttling bale baskets.

Two elevators in the hay mow: one to get them up, one to get them across the floor. Basicaly the guys just had to pick them up and put them on the elevator. The guys in the mow took them off the flat elevator and stacked them.

We did this in about 5 to 5.5 hours. Nobody broke a sweat.

Love bale baskets.

Ralph


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## Vol

rjmoses said:


> I've done 1400 50 lb bales in one day with two EZ-Trail bale baskets, one guy baling, one guy raking, 4 guys in the hay mow and me shuttling bale baskets.
> 
> Two elevators in the hay mow: one to get them up, one to get them across the floor. Basicaly the guys just had to pick them up and put them on the elevator. The guys in the mow took them off the flat elevator and stacked them.
> 
> We did this in about hours. Nobody broke a sweat.
> 
> Love bale baskets.
> 
> Ralph


How many hours?

Regards, Mike


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## Farmerbrown2

I have 7 kicker wagons with that we can bale between 1000 to 1200 before we have to unload plus tree farm next to me always has 3 to 4 flat wagons available for my use. We share wagon they use my hay wagons to harvest trees in November I use there wagons in the summer for hay . I have done up to 1700 in one day just my 14 year old son and I. I usually shoot for a thousand but some times I over shoot my goal.

Best I ever remember baling years ago with lots of help was 2300 bales that was dad baling and about 6 guys unloading. We use elavators to move hay up that just kills you to throw bales up . Throwing bales down or level is easy to compared to throwing up hill.


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## weatherman

My best was 1652 bales with a crew of four. Wife was baling with accumulator going < 3 mph, probably closer to 2 mph. This was first cutting with good size windrows. Help Number One was raking then on the grapple collecting to stage 15 groups of 10 bales each. Help Number Two drove the truck with air conditioner on and jamming to his teen music not watch for my hand signals as I stacked with grapple. I off-loaded six wagons in the barn and let the other four sit until the next day.

If everyone is in sync and no baler or accumulator issues, you can "Git-R-Done!".


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## rjmoses

Vol said:


> How many hours?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Sorry, key sticks on my keyboard ---About 5-5.5

Ralph


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## Vol

rjmoses said:


> Sorry, key sticks on my keyboard ---About 5-5.5
> 
> Ralph


Ice cream?

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

This question is basically meaningless unless question #2 and #3 (and a couple more) are defined before any decision making would be advised .... Just saying, if it's purely for the curiousness in it....one man on baler, one man on rake, one man on loader tractor.....2800 in the barn, not stacked....(still had meat left on the bone). That's good conditions, with the right dew point, that drops significantly.....mother nature always has the final say


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## rjmoses

Vol said:


> Ice cream?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Hay dust.

Ralph


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## Teslan

This is one of those threads that makes me realize parts of hay making is sure a regional thing. All you guys east of I guess Kansas are sure more hands on with the hay stacking. Just like the thread from the other day about fertilizer spreading on snow in Wyoming which is normal for here too. I have never stacked hay out of the field more then maybe 15 bales into a pickup or so here and there. I've rarely seen any farmer out stacking hay in the manner which is described above either. You all are sure stronger then I am to do that. Before the NH hay stackers they would use sleds and grapples here. I have yet to see a bale ejector into a wagon in person. I was kinda surprised that a thing existed when I first saw a picture in a magazine in my teens.


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## BWfarms

Me as a one man crew. Raking, baling and manually handling 500 is all I can handle a day and that's loading 250 and leaving on the wagon to unload in the morning.

I own a stack liner but it needs TLC. Accumulators priced me out of it because I don't make many squares. Speaking of which, I haven't baled a square in 3 years. Goes to my cows mostly so roll em up lol. When my son gets of age to work, I will square bale to build his character because I know it helped build mine.


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## mlappin

Have put up 3000 a day with enough help.

When I was by myself I'd load all 5 thrower wagons which was over 1000 bales then have help lined up in the AM to unload.


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## IH 1586

leeave96 said:


> Not sure this is the right forum section, but.....
> 
> Just curious - how many square bales of hay you can/do reasonably put up in a day with ONE square baler and crew? This is baled, taken off the field and under cover of some sort, i.e. barn or shed or tarp, etc.
> 
> Our yield is probably going to be double this year. Our plan is to have enough wagons to do a maximum of 1,000 bales in a day and pull them under our shelters. They won't be unloaded, but at least they will be under cover. We'll unload another day when it's cooler, i.e. early morning or late evening - BUT, the hay is baled, off the field and let it rain!
> 
> Not sure we can do 1,000 bales in a day, but that is a max goal for now. FYI - we stack off the baler onto a wagon. No question - last year, unloading wagons cost us a LOT of time - far away our long pole in the tent. Now we want to avoid that - at least up to 1,000 bales and pulling loaded wagons (left unloaded) into our shelters is our remedy for unloading the same day as baling such that we can put up as many bales as possible in an afternoon.
> 
> What's your typical day with one baler and crew?
> 
> Bill


1000 in a day not a problem, with taking unloading out of the equation. Not sure what all your variables are in regards to windrow size, wagon size, quality of labor and stacking job, and baling hours.

When we were baling all hay dry for the dairy we had 4 wagons that held 125 each. Load 4, unload 4, load 4 more, chores, and milk and that was an easy day. Baling window was 10-3:30. If yield is good you should be able to load a wagon 15 -20 min with 2 people on wagon. They should not be standing still at any point on the wagon. If you can switch wagons in field that will be even better. When dads brother got done with his hay he would help then we could do 2000+ in a day. 8 wagons, 3 people baling and stacking, 2 running wagons from field to barn and 1 person at barn to unload. Your breaks were in a air condition tractor baling and if you moved wagons between barn and field. Nothing like getting done milking on a hot humid morning and have 8 wagons lined up outside ready to unload and do it all over again.

If I was closer I would volunteer. Nothing more enjoyable than stacking wagons.


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## r82230

When I was a lot younger, I (by myself) could stack 300+ bales an hour behind the JD24t (probably close to max capacity for the baler, bales were not nice pushing that old baler). We managed to do 1,000+ bales only a couple of times that I can remember (not pushing the baler as hard either, maybe 250 bale an hour). Only had 3 wagons and at 375 bales total they were maxed out. Slow down was the unloading process (one older sister and brother unloading), plus we had to stop and milk cows around 5.30pm. (No wonder my dad's off farm job was second shift, he had a captive crew.)

I wouldn't like to have been behind a JD348 or NH5070 stacking those idiot bricks. But with today's balers, I would want two people stacking. If the wagons are always handy (for quick un-hook and hookups), I would think 300-350 an hour could be done. With a 5 hour baling window, 1500 to 1750 bales could be done in a day. So with 3 people and enough wagons, weather conditions acceptable.............and a captive crew.

Now the un-loading...................that's another story.

A friend of mine has a older NH pull type stack wagon, he tells me if the barn is 1/2 mile from field, he can pick up and stack 1000 bales in about 5 hours. His crew would be just 2 people.

Larry


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## Lostin55

Teslan said:


> This is one of those threads that makes me realize parts of hay making is sure a regional thing. All you guys east of I guess Kansas are sure more hands on with the hay stacking. Just like the thread from the other day about fertilizer spreading on snow in Wyoming which is normal for here too. I have never stacked hay out of the field more then maybe 15 bales into a pickup or so here and there. I've rarely seen any farmer out stacking hay in the manner which is described above either. You all are sure stronger then I am to do that. Before the NH hay stackers they would use sleds and grapples here. I have yet to see a bale ejector into a wagon in person. I was kinda surprised that a thing existed when I first saw a picture in a magazine in my teens.


I saw some kicker wagons for the first time last summer when I made the trip to Illinois. Had it not been for this website, I would have been stumped as to what they were. 
You are completely correct on the regional differences, and there are more than a few of them. 
I never have been able to figure out why minimizing the number of required helpers isn't a bigger priority. I have always operated from the viewpoint that I need to have the equipment that allows the use of the fewest people possible. With the new business and being scattered all over the county my theories are changing, but it is still a primary consideration.


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## slowzuki

We use kicker wagons a lot in my area too. Friend I help with straw has a dozen 20-24 ft long kicker wagons. They hold 150-220 bales each depending how much you fuss. He runs acid so he can get a few more hours in baling and will run out of wagons on a good day.

I've run my baskets side by side with kicker wagons in the same field, the baskets come ahead while baling but only hold 100 bales so the kicker wagon catches up during basket changes. Both end up around 300 bales an hour.

Pics taken running their NH 8160 and Massey 228 baler.

























They cleaned up with their new planter tractor round baling later.


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## Northeast PA hay and beef

So with perfect baling weather, which doesn't happen often. We try cut enough to average 1500 bales a day. We have one baler, nh 5070 with a kicker. Run 4 20' kicker wagons. Our best day in 2016 was 2100 bales, that's baled and stacked in the mow. I was baling had one guy raking and 4 to unload and mow until raking done then 5. Ours go into top of dairy barn up elevator to another that goes length of barn, with a "kicker" that drops bales where you're stacking. So no throwing. In 2015 had one day that we did 2700, but had to pay evreryone extra $100 to get then to come back the next day. With the good weather we could start baling by 11:30 and stop with dew around 7:30-8. We're on top of mountain so always windy. 
The 5070 can really move hay, with thick windrows a 40 to 45lb bale will hit wagon every 6 seconds.


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## hillside hay

Lostin55 said:


> I saw some kicker wagons for the first time last summer when I made the trip to Illinois. Had it not been for this website, I would have been stumped as to what they were.
> You are completely correct on the regional differences, and there are more than a few of them.
> I never have been able to figure out why minimizing the number of required helpers isn't a bigger priority. I have always operated from the viewpoint that I need to have the equipment that allows the use of the fewest people possible. With the new business and being scattered all over the county my theories are changing, but it is still a primary consideration.


The reason why most of us Northeast fellas use kicker racks is ground moisture. A bale that sits on the ground for even a quarter hour will pick up enough moisture to dust up. Believe me. I'd love to eliminate the human element in this process.


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## VA Haymaker

Lostin55 said:


> I saw some kicker wagons for the first time last summer when I made the trip to Illinois. Had it not been for this website, I would have been stumped as to what they were.
> You are completely correct on the regional differences, and there are more than a few of them.
> I never have been able to figure out why minimizing the number of required helpers isn't a bigger priority. I have always operated from the viewpoint that I need to have the equipment that allows the use of the fewest people possible. With the new business and being scattered all over the county my theories are changing, but it is still a primary consideration.


We were on a trip last fall through the Adirondacks and saw a New Holland baler with a belt thrower and a kicker wagon behind it at work. They were baling what looked like corn stocks from a combine. I've seen pictures and videos of them, never in person - it was impressive.

The one thing that jumped out at me was the long field being baled was along the lower face of a hillside. Not sure our stacked wagons would have held together on that sideways slope.

Bill


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## Bgriffin856

Gee I'd like to have the help some of you folks have..... grew up with a nh275 with a chute stacking on flat wagons remember having to hustle to stack the top layers of bales when sstacking by myself. We only have enough wagons for 600 or so bales. Now that we have a JD 337 with a pan style kicker which I wish we had years ago it saves the work of a man and a half. Usually fill the flat wagons then old man goes and round bales if we have alot of hay to bale while I fill the kicker rack myself. Bale 30-40 bales get off and stack takes an hour or so to get a load of 200 myself. Usually unload at night after milking and chores so we can get right at it the next day. Stacking 600 bales on wagons Then stacking those 600 hundred in the mow isn't too bad after that first day when you think your going to die crawling out of the mow. Really makes me love the round baler. I couldn't imagine putting in all squares 3-4K to top off the mow is enough for me every year.

If you start at a decent time of day and conditions allow and have enough help 1000 bales a day off a chute baler, shouldn't even cause a sweat


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## Vol

I like to shoot for 450 little squares a day.....but I rake, bale, grapple onto the wagons and then grapple into the buildings. Seldom do I drink a beer, but a ice cold Coors Light sure tastes good at the end of a hot day haying' here in Tennessee.

Regards, Mike


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## Shetland Sheepdog

"Ice cold Coors Light"? :huh: Make mine a Michelob Ultra!


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## r82230

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> "Ice cold Coors Light"? :huh: Make mine a Michelob Ultra!


Someone might be watching their carbs. 

Larry


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## slowzuki

Seeing the heat and humidity numbers during the summer down there I have no idea how anyone hays. On days over 90 f and 70% humidity here I start wishing I was back in -20 f of winter.



Vol said:


> I like to shoot for 450 little squares a day.....but I rake, bale, grapple onto the wagons and then grapple into the buildings. Seldom do I drink a beer, but a ice cold Coors Light sure tastes good at the end of a hot day haying' here in Tennessee.
> 
> Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1

hillside hay said:


> The reason why most of us Northeast fellas use kicker racks is ground moisture. A bale that sits on the ground for even a quarter hour will pick up enough moisture to dust up. Believe me. I'd love to eliminate the human element in this process.


My motto: never let them hit the ground. With the moisture that we have sometimes I can't imagine dragging them on the ground like the early accumulators did


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## paoutdoorsman

hillside hay said:


> The reason why most of us Northeast fellas use kicker racks is ground moisture. A bale that sits on the ground for even a quarter hour will pick up enough moisture to dust up. Believe me. I'd love to eliminate the human element in this process.


I'd like to understand this more. Are you saying the accumulators in general do not work in the Northeast since bales will sit on the field until the grapple & wagons come along?


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## slowzuki

You have to be careful. Can't let the packs sit long. Same issue with round bales, they will get nasty on the ground touching patch within a day or two except in august.


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## hillside hay

There are a few spots that one could bale and then come back through later and pick them up but not many. The pack needs to be picked up pronto and for most of us it's just easier to kick it in a wagon and stack and park it in the shed. Couple the ground moisture with steep hills and that is another hurdle. Bales won't stay on edge coming off the quarter turn. Sitting on the ground for just a couple minutes in June and July will result in a wet backside. Even in our most recent "drought". People have tried to use this that or the other system and they always come home to the kicker rack or move to large squares . Large square customers will accept a little surface dusting it seems.


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## SVFHAY

I love small squares and the work it takes to do them. You can learn a lot about a person when the bales are backed up and sweat is in their eyes.

I remember dad being happy with 3 loads a day on flat wagons, 350 bales.

Then there was a day I was alone and started by unloading 3 kick wagons in morning, filled them up, unloaded and stacked in barn, filled them again. Thought I was something with 750.

6 full wagons when the help shows up in the morning is hard on the crews morale but there are worse things. A properly led crew of 17 year olds who enjoy competing can be a wonderful thing but around 1200 day after day seemed like the limit. 1800 was one thing but don't expect much the following day.

Things are different with bandit automation. Not as much fun though without all the drama of a pack of youngsters. Can do 2000 day after day with 2.5 of us. I do have to stack Late into night though.


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## mlappin

Lostin55 said:


> I saw some kicker wagons for the first time last summer when I made the trip to Illinois. Had it not been for this website, I would have been stumped as to what they were.
> You are completely correct on the regional differences, and there are more than a few of them.
> I never have been able to figure out why minimizing the number of required helpers isn't a bigger priority. I have always operated from the viewpoint that I need to have the equipment that allows the use of the fewest people possible. With the new business and being scattered all over the county my theories are changing, but it is still a primary consideration.


Population density is a lot lower in your area, ergo less help. Back in the day we would turn high school kids away wanting to bale hay. Course then the football coaches realized baling hay would turn boys into men faster than anything they could do to em.


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## Lostin55

It used to be the football and wrestling coaches here. Not anymore.


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## IH 1586

In the late 80's and through the 90's growing up all the hired help was high school football players. I would like to see today's football players throw bales.


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## paoutdoorsman

hillside hay said:


> There are a few spots that one could bale and then come back through later and pick them up but not many. The pack needs to be picked up pronto and for most of us it's just easier to kick it in a wagon and stack and park it in the shed. Couple the ground moisture with steep hills and that is another hurdle. Bales won't stay on edge coming off the quarter turn. Sitting on the ground for just a couple minutes in June and July will result in a wet backside. Even in our most recent "drought". People have tried to use this that or the other system and they always come home to the kicker rack or move to large squares . Large square customers will accept a little surface dusting it seems.


I would certainly get them picked up the same afternoon they were baled, but doing it within a few minutes of them being on the ground isn't feasible. More likely within a few hours. If you are saying bales draw wet on the bottom within a few minutes, not sure I can move to an accumulator and still have top quality hay to market.


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## hillside hay

paoutdoorsman said:


> I would certainly get them picked up the same afternoon they were baled, but doing it within a few minutes of them being on the ground isn't feasible. More likely within a few hours. If you are saying bales draw wet on the bottom within a few minutes, not sure I can move to an accumulator and still have top quality hay to market.


All depends on your ground. Out of 200 acres I could ground drop 20 and be fine. Good gravel ground that sets at least 10' above the water table would be what's needed around my area. Unfortunately, we have a lot of clay and a drain tile at 3' runs 50 weeks a year. Go out to Western NY or the Champlain valley and you can use whatever system floats your boat. Most generally in my area even running over the windrow in a corner will trash the bale. We mow high and straight up here no matter the shape of the field.


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## Bgriffin856

slowzuki said:


> Seeing the heat and humidity numbers during the summer down there I have no idea how anyone hays. On days over 90 f and 70% humidity here I start wishing I was back in -20 f of winter.


My favorite days are ones its so hot you can fry an egg on the tractor fender while raking and baling. If small baling we don't stop for water till the wagons are full that'll bring the true character out of the help. Out of all the help we've had only two kids amounted to anything. Too bad they moved away two years ago


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## Bgriffin856

Yep had a bale or two miss the wagon and didn't get them picked up for a day or two, ended up heavy damp and eventually dusty before I got them fed out


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## MFSuper90

Best bailing day I had was last year 1400 bales with just me and dad. Dad had the day off so it worked out good. Dad started raking the alfalfa early in the AM, catching the dew. By the time he got to the grass, I was following him with the baler. Bales the first feild of grass, then moved to the alfalfa, then back to the grass. Got the 1400 bales made in 6 hrs with the Massey 1839. Then hooked on to the bale wagon at 69 bales a load, I had them all in temp stacks at the edge of the feild by midnight. The tarps were all on at 2 A.M. Ended up being a long day but it was better than rained on hay. Too bad farming doesn't pay by the hour with time and a half over time...Then I'd be rich


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## Vol

Since were in the spinning mode I will tell of a somewhat different perspective(I told this story several years ago so bear with me if you have heard it). Back in the day when I ran steers and before round balers, I was baling a section of a river bottom. It was located almost a half of a mile from the hay loft we stacked in at that time.

It was one of those times that we all have experienced where you ask 8 people to help, knowing all won't show. About 11 that morning 2 grown men and two boys(9 & 11) show up. I was sick.

So the men said they wanted to pack wagons and I took the 2 boys with me to the barn to stack and my dad ferried loaded wagons to and fro.

The young boys had never worked in hay before but were needing money. I knew that the barn would burn them out fast so I just had them unload the wagons onto the hay elevator and I stacked in the barn. I packed one half of the barn and then moved to the other end of the barn and stacked it.....all by myself. We worked until right before sunset. The boys nearly quit on me about 3 but I told them that if they gritted it out I would give them a extra $50 a piece and pay them the same wages of the grown men that were packing the wagons. I thank the Good Lord that they did....they seemed to catch their second wind about 5 pm.

I have never been as tired and sick in my whole life as I was that night. My body was vibrating and jerking so hard that I never slept a wink the whole night. I realized later that I had come close to killing myself. I swore that would be the last time that ever happened to me and shortly thereafter round balers came out....and I bought one. I know that I took some time off my life that day with the physical exertion I put myself through. I stacked 1,452 bales by myself ten high(some places higher) in the loft of a hillbilly bank barn. 

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Better you than me


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## Widairy

I will say Mike you are a better man than I. My small square story goes as follows, I was just getting started in beef and used my dad's old baler a 24T John Deere and got the neighbors flat racks about 5 if I remember correctly. Anyway the only help I could get was my 14 year old brother. Worked alright he drove and I stacked bales. Went good, got the field cleared and it barely fit on the wagons somewhere near 700 bales. The ugly part was trying to get the wagons unloaded and packed in the barn. I couldn't get any help, heck even my brother found ways to be too busy. After handling each of those bales 3 more times to get them packed away I decided it was time for a change. By the time second crop rolled around I had the Deere dealer bring me out a used 535 to demo. I sold a load of steers and the baler stayed. One of the best moves I've ever made.


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## Vol

Thank you Widairy but I did just what I had to do......not a wise thing in retrospect, but sometimes a younger man does not worry about such. Round balers, grapples, and accumulators sure have made everyones work day so much better and more independent. I work all day now on the seat of my pants and get tired. 

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Makes you wish you had thought of some of these tools....and makes you appreciate that we have "inventors" amongst us.....


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## hillside hay

I have to change things this year. I have the space and barn type to use a squeeze. I have given up trying to train people to take. I've always considered it the easiest task but apparently it isn't. So, I will take over the raking task. I will also stack the wagons. This takes my crew from 5 down to 2. I can still control.the baling from the wagon I just need someone to keep the pickup in the windrow. Surely I can find someone capable of that. Also, I won't be spending $100 per hour for piss poor results.


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## hillside hay

Back to the OP. That should put me back at 12-1500 per day without too much hassle.


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## Dan_GA

When I was 18, a friend, my cousin and I put up 400-500 bales a day. This was following an old JD tractor and an old JD square baler with a pickup truck. Me on one side, my buddy on the other, and my cousin driving the truck. We'd throw them on there and stack well on top of the cab even. Then putt putt it across the field, across the road, down to the barn and stack it in the loft by hand. This was mid-June through September in Central NC. We were also "kilt" by the time the sun went down.


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## r82230

Dan_GA said:


> When I was 18, a friend, my cousin and I put up 400-500 bales a day. This was following an old JD tractor and an old JD square baler with a pickup truck. Me on one side, my buddy on the other, and my cousin driving the truck. We'd throw them on there and stack well on top of the cab even. Then putt putt it across the field, across the road, down to the barn and stack it in the loft by hand. This was mid-June through September in Central NC. We were also "kilt" by the time the sun went down.


If I was more computer genius I would find the picture on HT a year or so ago of a truck stack with hay on top of the cab, that just might make you envious. 400-500 bales wouldn't have been many loads if your stacked like they did. Sorry I couldn't find it. 

Larry


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## glasswrongsize

r82230 said:


> If I was more computer genius I would find the picture on HT a year or so ago of a truck stack with hay on top of the cab, that just might make you envious. 400-500 bales wouldn't have been many loads if your stacked like they did. Sorry I couldn't find it.
> 
> Larry


Was it this one?









or this one?


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## r82230

Number 1 it seems, thanks glass, you're way ahead of me on the old computer. 

Larry


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## broadriverhay

I rake , bale and stack 500 to 700 in the barn all alone. I will probably do more this year since I built the rear grapple. I will be hauling 20 to the barn at a time. Can't wait to try the new setup.


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## Cmm

I usually drop 10-12 ac 
Looking for 1000 bales
We accumulate and grapple load onto 5 trailers that are strategically placed

1 raking
1 baling

Rake guy grapples hay onto trailers after raking

Guy 3 drives trailer to barn 
Back it in
Unhooks and repeats 4 more times

1000 plus in the dry barn in an afternoon

Never touch a bale


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## jedp

Y'all might as well be speaking French to me. As Teslan said, we just don't see that kind of work done here outside of the small parcel hobby folks, couple acres of hay at best. I admire the work and coordination you put in to make it happen!


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## broadriverhay

This years daily baling numbers are as follows:

Day 1 810 bales

Day 2 525 bales

Day 3 625 bales

Day 4 890 bales

All of these were stacked in the barn with the front grapple. The rear grapple I built worked without any issues. These were accumulated with a Parrish Accumulator while baling. The first 3 days were with no help, the 4th day I had someone rake and someone bale while I hauled to the barn.


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## weatherman

Day 1 - 1100 bales, wife on the baler/accumulator and I was stacking on wagons using 10-bale grapple.

Day 2 - 1300 bales same setup as day 1 with the exception of selling 800 bales out of the field


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## Vol

weatherman said:


> Day 1 - 1100 bales, wife on the baler/accumulator and I was stacking on wagons using 10-bale grapple.
> 
> Day 2 - 1300 bales same setup as day 1 with the exception of selling 800 bales out of the field


You have a mighty fine woman to hang with you baling that amount......and you must have some large flat fields.  Good job weatherman.

Regards, Mike

P.S. You sure are fortunate to be able to sell 800 bales out of the field at one wack!


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## weatherman

She is awesome! Thanks. Not to say she didn't have a few issues, most she fixed. I pray that I keep the customer who bought out of the field. This is year two with her.


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## IH 1586

Finally got to do some squares.

1st day 1440 bales in about 5 hrs. brought home 300 hundred of them. Hard to find customers on a holiday.

2nd day 583 bales 2.5 hours

Should have all the kinks worked out. Now just wait for the weather.


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## Bgriffin856

Finally got the square baler out and greased and ready. Backed it back in the barn gonna round bale tomorrow if it doesn't rain.

That's as many squares we've made so far


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## kidbalehook

Trotwood2955 said:


> Bill -
> 
> Our setup is just like yours, baling on flat wagons right behind the baler. You are smart to have plenty of wagons. That has always been my strategy because I've always thought baling and loading wagons was a breeze compared to unloading. Used to hate when we had less wagons than we do now and had to stop to unload, or not mowing as much down as I wanted because we were limited on wagons.
> 
> Now I have enough wagons to put 1000 bales on before needing to stop to unload. For us now this is typically plenty. An average day for us anymore is probably only 500 or so, but mainly because the last couple years we typically have only square baled 2nd and 3rd cut compared to in the past when we baled more first cutting. Takes a lot more acres to get 500-1000 later cutting bales than it does in first cut Timothy cranking out 175+ bales an acre. And with those more acres on later cuttings the more time you spend raking and such, and if the days are shorter it is just hard to get but so many acres done in a day regardless of the bale count.
> 
> The most later cutting bales we have done in a day is 950 I think, and we were hustling to get that raked and baled all in one afternoon because of the acres covered. In first cutting, the most I have done is 1200 in one day, plus 50 round bales along with it to finish up. But that was an unusual day as drying conditions were good, there was no dew, and we started baling about 12:30 and finished up about 7 that evening. We also had planned to leave some for the following day but then the forecast changed so ended up baling it all. Covered three different fields, had to go borrow some more wagons, stopping to switch equipment, etc. so it wasn't like we were baling that entire time. But we were still moving pretty good I felt like and we were all ready for bed by that evening. Our "crew" is usually my wife (driving the baler) and my father and me on the wagon stacking. Or sometimes my wife will still be raking while my dad and I get started baling. But usually never more than the three of us. I wouldn't want to have too many back to back 1000 bale days with our labor situation though. Only occasionally is fine. And 500-750/day is usually not bad at all as long as it isn't just a miserable hot day.
> 
> Again the baling isn't the part that I mind, it is the unloading. The problem we always had (with myself and dad both working off the farm full time) was when you lucked out with a really nice stretch of weather and could be baling back to back days, it was hard to bale all afternoon, find time to get wagons to unloaded before the next afternoon, and repeat all over again. You hate to not capitalize on the weather window but you can only do so much. But most of the time in those cases we would square bale as much as we could then just round bale the rest.
> 
> Back in the day growing up when I worked for my grandfather and some neighbors seemed like we would do 4-600 bales just about every day all summer long as long as the weather was fitting. Bale in the afternoon, unload in the morning, go rake, then bale again. At the time I was having a blast. Don't miss it as much now as I used to!


Trotwood... I had to laugh reading your post. If you would show that post to any of my family members they would have swore I wrote that! Right down to the wagons needed, number of bales, morning unloading and not missing it so much anymore!


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## broadriverhay

1257 bales today. raked , baled and put in barn all alone. Thanks to my Parrish Accumulator and grapple. Still a long day. Got about that many more tomorrow.


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## Lostin55

broadriverhay said:


> 1257 bales today. raked , baled and put in barn all alone. Thanks to my Parrish Accumulator and grapple. Still a long day. Got about that many more tomorrow.


That's a great day


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## Vol

broadriverhay said:


> 1257 bales today. raked , baled and put in barn all alone. Thanks to my Parrish Accumulator and grapple. Still a long day. Got about that many more tomorrow.


I don't know how you do it....that will make you a old man fast.

How does your Parrish work when turning corners? I have always wondered about that as in Parrish videos i have seen, I have never seen them showing the accumulator turning the corner. But I could have missed it somewhere.

Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586

1600 on 7/20 and brought home 600. All out of customers and one section of the barn full of 1st. Not sure what I'm going to do with the last of the first.


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## broadriverhay

You turn Baler off on the turns . I try to bale the ends first to give space to work


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## Teslan

Haven't read this thread in a long time. I gotta say. You eastern small bale operators sure work hard. I don't know how you can do that much hay day after day with your methods.

Raked, baled, stacked 95 3x3 bales by myself on Wednesday. Started at 10:30 am and got done at 4:30pm. That's about 1312 small squares. Didn't touch any of it.

Thursday raked, baled, stacked another 90 with someone running the baler. Started at 10:30am and got done at 2:30 pm with a wait in between of an hour and a half for the hay to dry more after raking. Again didn't touch any hay.

Last Sunday Raked, Baled, Stacked about 250 3x3 bales with a guy running the baler. Started at 10:00am and got done at 5:30pm. That's equivilant to about 3450 small squares

So mine are easy jobs compared to what you guys go through with your small squares. I tip my hat to your very hard work. Wouldn't want to hay there. I'm too lazy.

But don't think I get up late. Every day is up at 4:30 or so to irrigate.


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## Vol

I try my hardest not to touch the hay either Marc....but it still is a lot of work. I would like to get a 3x3 for first cutting. How long do you make your bales Marc?

Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586

I might be a bit lazy too. Thursday morning unloading hay with my cousins, pulled the 4th wagon into the barn sat there and said the hell with this (was not the exact word I used) Had about 9 acres to do which with this yield was another 1000 bales or so, rain by noon or 4 depending on who you believed and wanted to get it done. Sat in air condition and round baled. 34-4x5, and 48-4x4. Ended up with a hard shower for 30 sec that shut me down for 20 min. north of us had 2 tornadoes.


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## SVFHAY

Teslan said:


> Haven't read this thread in a long time. I gotta say. You eastern small bale operators sure work hard. I don't know how you can do that much hay day after day with your methods.
> 
> Raked, baled, stacked 95 3x3 bales by myself on Wednesday. Started at 10:30 am and got done at 4:30pm. That's about 1312 small squares. Didn't touch any of it.
> 
> Thursday raked, baled, stacked another 90 with someone running the baler. Started at 10:30am and got done at 2:30 pm with a wait in between of an hour and a half for the hay to dry more after raking. Again didn't touch any hay.
> 
> Last Sunday Raked, Baled, Stacked about 250 3x3 bales with a guy running the baler. Started at 10:00am and got done at 5:30pm. That's equivilant to about 3450 small squares
> 
> So mine are easy jobs compared to what you guys go through with your small squares. I tip my hat to your very hard work. Wouldn't want to hay there. I'm too lazy.
> 
> But don't think I get up late. Every day is up at 4:30 or so to irrigate.


Maybe the more telling measure would be $ invested vs. production in a day?


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## slowzuki

In the east we just don't get the weather to run big acres day after day. Can't spread the cost out over that much hay. It very hard to get weather to put much more than 10,000 bales a season through a small square baler where I live, most serious baled hay users switched to balage/ silage 25 years ago. Just the horse owners left.


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## Teslan

slowzuki said:


> In the east we just don't get the weather to run big acres day after day. Can't spread the cost out over that much hay. It very hard to get weather to put much more than 10,000 bales a season through a small square baler where I live, most serious baled hay users switched to balage/ silage 25 years ago. Just the horse owners left.


also from what I read the market for grass hays for horsey people isn't as strong also. So you could spend the money on equipment to put it up faster and more of it, but the price isn't as high to make a possible profit. Then with all the moisture you can have hay ruined much faster no matter the expensive equipment you have. Lots more pasture of animals there in the summer. This year any pasture around here that isn't irrigated was done for by middle of June.


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## Teslan

Vol said:


> I try my hardest not to touch the hay either Marc....but it still is a lot of work. I would like to get a 3x3 for first cutting. How long do you make your bales Marc?
> 
> Regards, Mike


About 8 feet long.


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## SVFHAY

Teslan said:


> About 8 feet long.


Can you ship in a 102 van?


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## Teslan

SVFHAY said:


> Can you ship in a 102 van?


I suppose one could. How tall is a 102 van? You could make the bales shorter to ensure you could. With the equipment I have i couldn't push the bales forward enough to the front of a van.


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## broadriverhay

Baled 1332 today. And or course alone again. Got a few hundred to do tomorrow around the tree lines.


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## SVFHAY

Teslan said:


> I suppose one could. How tall is a 102 van? You could make the bales shorter to ensure you could. With the equipment I have i couldn't push the bales forward enough to the front of a van.


 Most are 110", so ya go 3 high and get 57 on a load if the length is right to get them through door. We shoot for a 7.5 to 8' bale. Lighter trailer than flat and rates are cheaper, having a dock is a plus.


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## slowzuki

Yes correct if you have any ground there is no hay fed May to Nov here. Everything stays green and growing, just slows down a bit in August.



Teslan said:


> also from what I read the market for grass hays for horsey people isn't as strong also. So you could spend the money on equipment to put it up faster and more of it, but the price isn't as high to make a possible profit. Then with all the moisture you can have hay ruined much faster no matter the expensive equipment you have. Lots more pasture of animals there in the summer. This year any pasture around here that isn't irrigated was done for by middle of June.


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## deerezilla

I have done the van thing not very fun. I have a 644j with a sunny D squeeze and I have to get a run at it to put the last few blocks in. We don't do that any more the drivers are way to dumb for my likening.


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## 8350HiTech

broadriverhay said:


> Baled 1332 today. And or course alone again. Got a few hundred to do tomorrow around the tree lines.


Could you give a rough outline of your schedule for the day to accomplish this?


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## Teslan

8350HiTech said:


> Could you give a rough outline of your schedule for the day to accomplish this?


thats a good question. I'm not sure I could have accomplished baling and stacking that many in a day without raking when I did smalls. That accumulator must be pretty quick.


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## FarmerCline

broadriverhay said:


> Baled 1332 today. And or course alone again. Got a few hundred to do tomorrow around the tree lines.


 I just don't know how you can get that much baled and in the barn by yourself in a day either. Was that including raking it before baling it as well? Depending on on many acres I had to cover I might could get that much raked and baled in a day if the weather was favorable but no way I could get it stacked in a barn also unless I hauled all night long.....and that is with running a bale bandit so I'm handling 21 bales at a time.


----------



## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> I just don't know how you can get that much baled and in the barn by yourself in a day either. Was that including raking it before baling it as well? Depending on on many acres I had to cover I might could get that much raked and baled in a day if the weather was favorable but no way I could get it stacked in a barn also unless I hauled all night long.....and that is with running a bale bandit so I'm handling 21 bales at a time.


My dad and I used to do it pretty routinely. But that's with him baling and me running the NH self propelled stacker. And prior to that me raking. I just couldn't ever do it by myself. It used to take about 4-5 hours to bale that much and maybe 3-4 to stack it. Never mind raking. That is why we went to 3x3 bales. Because my dad's health wouldn't let him bale anymore and I didn't want to hire anyone.


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## somedevildawg

Logistics, I suspect....


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## somedevildawg

Why didn't you want to hire anyone teslan?


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## broadriverhay

Of course starting time depends on drying conditions. I raked for about 2 hrs. Then baled for about 3 hrs and hauled for about 5 hrs. I stopped Friday and Saturday night at 10 o'clock. I usually don't push it this hard but with the weather forecast I had to really rush. The hay was very thick and baled 100 bales per acre. It does not take long to rake that much hay. I also teddered between 10 an 12 oclock. I have 4 tractors so one to tedder , one to rake , one to bale ,and one to haul. Now the only implements I switch out is the cutter and the baler. With the rear grapple I built I haul 20 at a time.


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## broadriverhay

Here's the hauling tractor and a few other pictures


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## broadriverhay

Notice the amount of hay going in the pickup of the baler. It was like that most of the time. I baled at 2.7 to 3.3 mph.


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## Teslan

somedevildawg said:


> Why didn't you want to hire anyone teslan?


hard to find anyone reliable that can show up on a moments notice for maybe 40 hours a summer. I do have a retired guy now that runs my baler. But 3x3 balers are actually easier then small square balers for unexperienced people


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## 8350HiTech

broadriverhay said:


> Of course starting time depends on drying conditions. I raked for about 2 hrs. Then baled for about 3 hrs and hauled for about 5 hrs. I stopped Friday and Saturday night at 10 o'clock. I usually don't push it this hard but with the weather forecast I had to really rush. The hay was very thick and baled 100 bales per acre. It does not take long to rake that much hay. I also teddered between 10 an 12 oclock. I have 4 tractors so one to tedder , one to rake , one to bale ,and one to haul. Now the only implements I switch out is the cutter and the baler. With the rear grapple I built I haul 20 at a time.


The high yield per acre explains a lot with shortening your raking time. I'm still very impressed with baling over 400 per hour though. That's extreme efficiency!


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## broadriverhay

I could only use about 2/3 of the rake capacity. I have to cheat to one side so the windrows don't get to big. If I were to rake the full width the baler just could not handle the volume. Also with the Parrish Accumulator you have to keep moving so the bales flow correctly. If you stop the bales just pile on top of each other. That's then a bad day. Trust me I don't think I will try to do this much again in three days .


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## broadriverhay

I forgot to mention that our heat index was over 100 degrees the past few days. I drank a bunch of water I know that.


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## skyrydr2

Got a 3 day window finally.. but only needed 2. Started baling at 3pm and finished at 8:30 at 730 bales. And this included a repair on the pickup of baler because someone raked a huge windrow on top of a big stone... boy if it wasn't pops that did it he would have been canned on the spot! Now I need to fix the loops back to perfect again...


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## IH 1586

I'm having issues this year with inconsistent bale length due to high yields. I see now why inline balers work better with the accumulator. Used rollabar to rake about 3 times around field before giving up on that and going back to rotary. Went from 70-80 bales an acre to 120-140 this year.


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## wwwfagan72

With our operation I can personally rake, bale and haul about 1200 small square bales in a full day by myself. When my dad can be there, I rake and bale and he hauls with the stack wagon and we can put about 2500 in the barn in a good day. Our record for one baler and one wagon was 3600 bales in a wheat field with a short haul for the wagon. However, yesterday we had 2 balers and 2 stackwagons in the field and was baling a little over 900 an hour between the two balers and put about 1280 an hour in the barn. But that was with 4 people and 4 machines. 
With our North Georgia weather we and heavy dew can typically start raking around 10 and start baling around 12 then bale till 8 on a good day. This summer has been more of rake in front of the baler with the stackwagon tailgating the baler and then get rained out about 4:00 everyday. Then try again tomorrow....


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## Lostin55

What kind of stackers are you running? That comes out to 15 minutes to load and unload. It has to be field side with no run, at all. I am assuming 14 x18 bales and 160 per load. Perhaps I shouldn't assume.


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## FarmerCline

wwwfagan72 said:


> With our operation I can personally rake, bale and haul about 1200 small square bales in a full day by myself. When my dad can be there, I rake and bale and he hauls with the stack wagon and we can put about 2500 in the barn in a good day. Our record for one baler and one wagon was 3600 bales in a wheat field with a short haul for the wagon. However, yesterday we had 2 balers and 2 stackwagons in the field and was baling a little over 900 an hour between the two balers and put about 1280 an hour in the barn. But that was with 4 people and 4 machines.
> With our North Georgia weather we and heavy dew can typically start raking around 10 and start baling around 12 then bale till 8 on a good day. This summer has been more of rake in front of the baler with the stackwagon tailgating the baler and then get rained out about 4:00 everyday. Then try again tomorrow....


 Those are some impressive numbers.....even what you can do by yourself. I'm guessing your fields are very close to the barn? If all my fields were close to the barn I would be tempted to sell my Bandit and run a stack wagon instead. From what I gather there isnt a faster way to get hay in a barn than a sp stack wagon. Where the bandit shines is the ability to load the bundle package back out of the barn onto customers trailers.


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## wwwfagan72

We have a 1049 and a H9870. Our main farm has 300 acres together with a barn in the middle so the haul is maybe 2 mins absolute max from any field there. We do run 14x18s and that is 160 bales per load. However one of our other farms is about 3 miles away one way with 5 red lights on a 4 lane and our haul gets reduced to about 320 bales an hour per wagon if you run 60mph on the road. 
I would venture to say a self propelled stack wagon is the most efficient way to put small squares in a barn if your within a 5-7 mile radius. Beyond that hauling 160 at a time is slow go. But within that range you can't beat 1 machine and 1 operator gathering and stacking them in the barn unlike the multi machine and operator requiring bale bandits. And I love moving bundles by the way!!


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## FarmerCline

wwwfagan72 said:


> We have a 1049 and a H9870. Our main farm has 300 acres together with a barn in the middle so the haul is maybe 2 mins absolute max from any field there. We do run 14x18s and that is 160 bales per load. However one of our other farms is about 3 miles away one way with 5 red lights on a 4 lane and our haul gets reduced to about 320 bales an hour per wagon if you run 60mph on the road.
> I would venture to say a self propelled stack wagon is the most efficient way to put small squares in a barn if your within a 5-7 mile radius. Beyond that hauling 160 at a time is slow go. But within that range you can't beat 1 machine and 1 operator gathering and stacking them in the barn unlike the multi machine and operator requiring bale bandits. And I love moving bundles by the way!!


 Sounds like you have about an ideal setup to run bale wagons. I do have a question though.....how do you load the bales back out of the barn without handling them by hand? It sounds like you put up a lot of hay and I'm sure you don't load it all back out by hand.


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## Teslan

wwwfagan72 said:


> We have a 1049 and a H9870. Our main farm has 300 acres together with a barn in the middle so the haul is maybe 2 mins absolute max from any field there. We do run 14x18s and that is 160 bales per load. However one of our other farms is about 3 miles away one way with 5 red lights on a 4 lane and our haul gets reduced to about 320 bales an hour per wagon if you run 60mph on the road.
> I would venture to say a self propelled stack wagon is the most efficient way to put small squares in a barn if your within a 5-7 mile radius. Beyond that hauling 160 at a time is slow go. But within that range you can't beat 1 machine and 1 operator gathering and stacking them in the barn unlike the multi machine and operator requiring bale bandits. And I love moving bundles by the way!!


You run a stacker 60 mph? Loaded? Do they even go that fast? I've never even thought to try that fast. 40 mph is the fastest I've driven ours unloaded.


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## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> Sounds like you have about an ideal setup to run bale wagons. I do have a question though.....how do you load the bales back out of the barn without handling them by hand? It sounds like you put up a lot of hay and I'm sure you don't load it all back out by hand.


If you sell small squares out of your barn to customers having them load the bales themselves from the stack is the most efficient way to sell them. The customers may not think so, but it really is from a sellers stand point. If you have a grapple, squeeze, fork, whatever that takes time to load them for the customer when one can be doing other things. I'm glad I have a small square fork now since I use it with my 3x3s, but after I bought it to "help" customers I realized that it was a big time suck and didn't make me any more money. People are always requesting my cousin to get one. He sells 70k small squares a year. He doesn't get one just because he would be spending all his time loading people.


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## slowzuki

I'm not sure what I'm looking at, looks like a very consistant, not lumpy, nice to bale windrow.



broadriverhay said:


> Notice the amount of hay going in the pickup of the baler. It was like that most of the time. I baled at 2.7 to 3.3 mph.


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## SVFHAY

Teslan said:


> You run a stacker 60 mph? Loaded? Do they even go that fast? I've never even thought to try that fast. 40 mph is the fastest I've driven ours unloaded.


Like they told me when I drove a cabover, your the first one to arrive at the accident scene when ya sit at the front.


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## VA Haymaker

IH 1586 said:


> I'm having issues this year with inconsistent bale length due to high yields. I see now why inline balers work better with the accumulator. Used rollabar to rake about 3 times around field before giving up on that and going back to rotary. Went from 70-80 bales an acre to 120-140 this year.


Don't slap me down, but IMHO inconstant bale length has more to do with flake size/flakes per bale than an inline baler. The bale length should only vary by the last flake (thickness) pushing the bales down the chute and tripping the knotters. An inline like an MF1840 makes 100 strokes per minute, so lots flakes and consistent length bales. Same with my JD348 at 93 SPM.

High yield sounds like a great problem...????????


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## FarmerCline

Teslan said:


> If you sell small squares out of your barn to customers having them load the bales themselves from the stack is the most efficient way to sell them. The customers may not think so, but it really is from a sellers stand point. If you have a grapple, squeeze, fork, whatever that takes time to load them for the customer when one can be doing other things. I'm glad I have a small square fork now since I use it with my 3x3s, but after I bought it to "help" customers I realized that it was a big time suck and didn't make me any more money. People are always requesting my cousin to get one. He sells 70k small squares a year. He doesn't get one just because he would be spending all his time loading people.


 I'm sure having the customers load it would be the most efficient way but I don't think I would be able to sell much hay if I told them they would have to load the hay themselves.....especially if they are buying 400 bale trailer loads at a time.


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## FarmerCline

leeave96 said:


> Don't slap me down, but IMHO inconstant bale length has more to do with flake size/flakes per bale than an inline baler. The bale length should only vary by the last flake (thickness) pushing the bales down the chute and tripping the knotters. An inline like an MF1840 makes 100 strokes per minute, so lots flakes and consistent length bales. Same with my JD348 at 93 SPM.
> High yield sounds like a great problem...


 In theory you are correct but with that being said the NH 5070 I used to have had a bad habit of throwing out long and short bales.....especially if the windrow was uneven. That seems to be a trait of many but not all NH balers based on what I have read on a few different forums.


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## wwwfagan72

Using a steffen grapple on a forklift we stack it up 6 layers high and then using a telehandler push the packs into van trailers. We are in the straw/mulch hay business and use a fleet of box trailers to deliver to job sites and what not. No handling hay by hand unless something goes wrong.


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## wwwfagan72

Yes we run our wagons loaded about 60, that's all the 1049 has but if the H9870 had a 5th gear it would run well over 75 I'd say if you could stop haha. They both simply run out of gear but have the power. But yes 60mph is max cruising speed on the road! We are in the outskirts of Atlanta and have to deal with a lot of traffic so the best way to deal with it is to run with them, it's dangerous to drive a tractor at 20mph but a wagon at 60mph is much less nerve racking.


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## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> I'm sure having the customers load it would be the most efficient way but I don't think I would be able to sell much hay if I told them they would have to load the hay themselves.....especially if they are buying 400 bale trailer loads at a time.


You've just spoiled your customers.  Or people that buy hay in your area are spoiled. You only have yourselves to blame.


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## Teslan

wwwfagan72 said:


> Yes we run our wagons loaded about 60, that's all the 1049 has but if the H9870 had a 5th gear it would run well over 75 I'd say if you could stop haha. They both simply run out of gear but have the power. But yes 60mph is max cruising speed on the road! We are in the outskirts of Atlanta and have to deal with a lot of traffic so the best way to deal with it is to run with them, it's dangerous to drive a tractor at 20mph but a wagon at 60mph is much less nerve racking.


Then I suppose our 1089 could do that if your 1049 can. Though I rarely drive on pavement so I'm not going to try 60 on a rough dirt road. Also I carry more weight with my 3x3s then a stack of 160 small squares so I wouldn't want to try it there either.


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## FarmerCline

Teslan said:


> You've just spoiled your customers.  Or people that buy hay in your area are spoiled. You only have yourselves to blame.


 Maybe so but it is standard practice to load a customer around here....preferable not by hand though.


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## FarmerCline

wwwfagan72 said:


> Using a steffen grapple on a forklift we stack it up 6 layers high and then using a telehandler push the packs into van trailers. We are in the straw/mulch hay business and use a fleet of box trailers to deliver to job sites and what not. No handling hay by hand unless something goes wrong.


 How would one load a gooseneck or flatbed trailer with that grapple? Loading from the side would be three bales wide across the trailer which would be an overwidth load unless the bales were really short? I rarely load a van trailer.....mostly all goosenecks.


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## glasswrongsize

Teslan said:


> You've just spoiled your customers.  Or people that buy hay in your area are spoiled. You only have yourselves to blame.


I don't want anyone messin around in my barns or taking the wrong hay, etc etc... I would rather load them with a grapple and send them packin. I ain't gonna turn my back on a bunch of mooks in my barn.

That's just me...and I ain't doing 70K bales EITHER!!!!


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## Vol

FarmerCline said:


> Maybe so but it is standard practice to load a customer around here....preferable not by hand though.


Same here on loading customers......matter of fact, I have earned a lot of business because folks know that I will load them out. I don't mind because that means I am selling a trailer load and it sure does not take long to grapple 10 at a time on. I let them secure their loads.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

You have to know and trust customers. You are there when they arrive to show them where to loadand when they leave to count bales. A load of 300 bales can take awhile to load by hand. So plenty of time to get other things done. I even have a couple customers I trust to use my equipment to load themselves 3x3s. Some customers you don't want to leave alone though.


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## slowzuki

Hmm, I've got this all wrong, I've got some customers I load, deliver, get their conveyor down and put it in their loft as they aren't home, all for 4$ a bale.


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## glasswrongsize

Teslan said:


> You have to know and trust customers. You are there when they arrive to show them where to loadand when they leave to count bales. A load of 300 bales can take awhile to load by hand. So plenty of time to get other things done. I even have a couple customers I trust to use my equipment to load themselves 3x3s. Some customers you don't want to leave alone though.


I DO know them, that's why I don't trust them. It's not the bad kind of trust...I wouldnt worry about none of them stealing me blind or even taking an extra bale. I deal with some people that I have to turn their truck and trailer around for them...or help them back around a corner or whatnot...I don't trust them to do a simple job of loading their trailer. And, as Mike says, I can load 100 bales (usual load) in 15-20 minutes. If they was to dump one of my stacks over, I wouldn't be able to use the grapple until all the upset hay has been moved by hand. 
I don't let the grandkids climb on the stacks either...it's a delicate operation around here. 

Mark



slowzuki said:


> Hmm, I've got this all wrong, I've got some customers I load, deliver, get their conveyor down and put it in their loft as they aren't home, all for 4$ a bale.


If that's all the market will bear and you're making a little money, you do what you gotta do to move the product.


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## VA Haymaker

FarmerCline said:


> In theory you are correct but with that being said the NH 5070 I used to have had a bad habit of throwing out long and short bales.....especially if the windrow was uneven. That seems to be a trait of many but not all NH balers based on what I have read on a few different forums.


Yep - that's why I didn't mention NH in my post.....


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## VA Haymaker

Teslan said:


> If you sell small squares out of your barn to customers having them load the bales themselves from the stack is the most efficient way to sell them. The customers may not think so, but it really is from a sellers stand point. If you have a grapple, squeeze, fork, whatever that takes time to load them for the customer when one can be doing other things. I'm glad I have a small square fork now since I use it with my 3x3s, but after I bought it to "help" customers I realized that it was a big time suck and didn't make me any more money. People are always requesting my cousin to get one. He sells 70k small squares a year. He doesn't get one just because he would be spending all his time loading people.


I agree. Get the customer to load. We hand the bales out of the barn, but the customer loads and ties them down. I tell them flat out, I'm not physically able to load your truck/trailer, if you can't either, then bring some help.

Don't have a grapple, but the concern I would have with one is 1) it seems every trailer/truck bed is a different width/length, so to accommodate, some hand stacking would be required IMHO. 2) It would be my luck to run into the side of a nice new truck or trailer trying to load.....


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## wwwfagan72

FarmerCline said:


> How would one load a gooseneck or flatbed trailer with that grapple? Loading from the side would be three bales wide across the trailer which would be an overwidth load unless the bales were really short? I rarely load a van trailer.....mostly all goosenecks.


The steffen grapple has a rotator option so you pick up the layer looking at it with 3 bales facing you and 6 bales deep going away from you. With that being said loading a gooseneck doesn't not require a rotator. But you have to rotate the pack 90 degrees to get it to fit in a van trailer. Another way to think of it is all of the bales are parallel with the trailer. If all of that makes sense. If it doesn't I'll try to explain better. But for loading goosenecks with a 18 bale grapple a rotator is NOT needed. PM me for pictures if you would like


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## Shetland Sheepdog

slowzuki said:


> Hmm, I've got this all wrong, I've got some customers I load, deliver, get their conveyor down and put it in their loft as they aren't home, all for 4$ a bale.


Wow Slo, you're taking a beating!
$4.00 CDN? I'm getting $5.50 US, but I do take my own conveyor! $6.50 for 2nd crop.


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## slowzuki

I have to bring a conveyor on occasion too, really don't like that when working on my own. Always end up damaging the motor.


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## FarmerCline

wwwfagan72 said:


> The steffen grapple has a rotator option so you pick up the layer looking at it with 3 bales facing you and 6 bales deep going away from you. With that being said loading a gooseneck doesn't not require a rotator. But you have to rotate the pack 90 degrees to get it to fit in a van trailer. Another way to think of it is all of the bales are parallel with the trailer. If all of that makes sense. If it doesn't I'll try to explain better. But for loading goosenecks with a 18 bale grapple a rotator is NOT needed. PM me for pictures if you would like


 Understood perfectly.....thanks for explaining.


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## broadriverhay

Most trailers I drive up the ramps to load. Be it gooseneck or tag along.


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## Vol

slowzuki said:


> Hmm, I've got this all wrong, I've got some customers I load, deliver, get their conveyor down and put it in their loft as they aren't home, all for 4$ a bale.


You must be in the hay business for health benefits.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55

My souped up 340 hp 460 with electric fuel pump and electronic ignition, and a 650 4bbl Edelbrock will run 65 downhill, with a tail wind, empty. New Holland 1069. Four and two. 
Loaded I can run about 40 to 45mph. Maybe a hair more sometimes if I am going East


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## slowzuki

I'm the expensive guy for hay around here. People still sell for 2.50 a bale but 3 is more common. It's crazy. If i got rid of delivery and sold at 4$ from the barn it would probably triple or quadruple my profit and save me time but can't find customers with trucks.



Vol said:


> You must be in the hay business for health benefits.
> 
> Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586

leeave96 said:


> Don't slap me down, but IMHO inconstant bale length has more to do with flake size/flakes per bale than an inline baler. The bale length should only vary by the last flake (thickness) pushing the bales down the chute and tripping the knotters. An inline like an MF1840 makes 100 strokes per minute, so lots flakes and consistent length bales. Same with my JD348 at 93 SPM.
> 
> High yield sounds like a great problem...


The reason I mentioned an inline is I could make a narrower windrow and still be able to bale by myself. With the rollabar there would be no clearance to make another round unless you have someone picking up right behind you. Were raking anywhere from 11-13 feet with a partially folded double rotor rake (one reason I was thinking of getting a single rotor) relying on the person raking to be exact. I would say once the baler is in the windrow there is not much of an issue. I think a lot of it is coming from entering the next windrow and grabbing that first slug of hay. I don't do much of the baling myself and my good driver still working on his hay. There are so many variables.

As for the yield that is great except a group of my regulars that have been with me from the beginning and are worth several thousand bales never showed up this year so a batch of 1st is going to sit in the field until I'm caught up with 2nd, 3rd, and custom work.


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## Bigfoot62

SVFHAY said:


> I love small squares and the work it takes to do them. . .


OK, somebody get this guy some help. I'm thinking inpatient treatment for a few weeks, then monthly group therapy sessions.


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## Vol

Bigfoot62 said:


> OK, somebody get this guy some help. I'm thinking inpatient treatment for a few weeks, then monthly group therapy sessions.


I would say it is hopeless at this stage in his life.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

I understand him perfectly.....


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## SVFHAY

Vol said:


> I would say it is hopeless at this stage in his life.
> 
> Regards, Mike


So true.


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## bulldogger

I did some custom squares this year. $3 when they come out the back of the baler. I don't pickup squares anymore. I just sold my maxilator grapple and the square baler is for sale too.


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## ontario hay man

1000 bales in a day should be no problem. One day I was short help as usual. I baled 1000 being the driver and guy on the wagon lol. Threw 750 of them in the barn too. Left the last load for morning. It was a hard day and not everybody is stupid like me lol


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