# Fuel Injection Pump Problems -- Fuel additives?



## eam77 (Aug 4, 2013)

I've had an injector pump problem. I picked up the pump today- $807 for repair. Probably another $250 for the technician that took it off and will put it back on. I asked the pump repair technician why the pump failed-- water?, dirt?. No, don't know, he said. *EXCEPT, *that they have been having lots of pump failures. He thinks the problem is the low lubricity of the available fuels, since the sulphur content has been reduced-- combined with the ever-increasing complexity of the injection pumps being used on new equipment.

I have owned diesel tractors continuously for more than 40 years and this is my first injector pump rebuild.

This shops recommendation: use a fuel additive (which they sell) branded "Stanadyne". They say it is the best, that it is what John Deere sells under their brand. The cost is $25 treats 250 gallons=$0.10 per gallon. In my magazine from Massey Ferguson last week, they are now selling fuel treatment under their brand.

Should we all be using fuel additives?


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

eam77 said:


> Should we all be using fuel additives?


According to the local Deere dealer, yes.

The advice/reasoning your rebuild man gave you is basically the same thing they said after we put two pumps on a 6420 in about three yrs time. They also said on that particular model the tolerances in the pump are so tight they can't handle the low level of lubrication. We run mostly road fuel through it. Doesn't seem to bother the pumps in other equipment as much.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

When they switched to ultra low sulfer diesel there was a lot of issues in the older fuel pumps mainly.The sulfer was lubricant for the fuel pumps.Mn did require 2% Bio diesel that is mostly made from soybean oil about the same time so we didn't have pump issues like other states did.It is at 5% now.

I think it is BS that they didn't just put a lubricant of some sort in at the fuel wholesaler instead of guys like you finding out later after your fuel pump craped out.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

ANewman said:


> According to the local Deere dealer, yes.
> 
> The advice/reasoning your rebuild man gave you is basically the same thing they said after we put two pumps on a 6420 in about three yrs time. They also said on that particular model the tolerances in the pump are so tight they can't handle the low level of lubrication. We run mostly road fuel through it. Doesn't seem to bother the pumps in other equipment as much.


The only difference between the road fuel and farm fuel is the dye.

Unless one is just straight #2 and the other is a premium diesel.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

eam77 - your experience is exactly the same as mine when I purchased a Case IH MX135 in 2008. The tractor was 8 years old at the time with 3700 hours. I noticed that at idle it was not firing on one cylinder. It proved to be the injector pump (the venerable Bosch P-pump). Rebuild cost about $1300, and I did the R & R myself. Cause of the failure was blamed on ULSD. I try to run some level of additive most of the time now. Usually use Power Service, which is supposed to add lubricity, and has performed very well for me as an anti-gel in straight #2.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We run B10 year round just for that reason, low sulfur = reduced lubrication. Haven't had any problems with gelling in the winter yet. Is advisable if you store much or your own fuel to go ahead and have a algicide added before the problems start.

Guys on the Cummins forum recommend adding a quart of synthetic 2 stroke oil to every fill up.

Get yourself the service manual next time, I haven't seen a pump yet that was hard in any technical sense of the word to get off, only trick is timing them correctly before removal. Only one I dread would be on our combines since they are on the back side of the engine and you literally can just barely see it let alone get in to work on it.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

When Bio diesel first came out there where some issues with alage for some.I had 1 tractor that had a clogged line but other then a few more filters at first no big issues.They have improved it over the yrs,I don't hear of any issues now.I've used 20% soy diesel in pickups with no issues.Useing 5% in tractors as mandated by state of Mn.

Nieghbor was using 100% soy diesel in tractors,not sure if he still is.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I try to remember to add the Stanadyne treatment to every fill up. Just sent a Bosch pump up to Weiner's in NW Pa. the other day to have him either fix or exchange. A lot of the Bosch pump parts have been discontinued. He initially sent this pump to Hoober's to be fixed. They tore it down and then sent it back saying they could not fix it. So, I will go by there tomorrow on my way to pick up a corn head and see how it's going. This pump was on a Int. 3088 tractor that belongs to my father. Not the same kind of red runs thru my veins!


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

By the way, I use their lubricity formula. What do you guys use?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Going through a problem with my MF right now. Pump not working well, found cloudy snot like goop in clumps on the clean side of filter and seems to have worked its way into main pump.

To be fair the tractor has always had some weird pump issues.


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## simmy (Apr 12, 2013)

Yep add some 2 stroke oil . I believe the low ash oil is tcw3 or something like that. I buy the wally world brand and add it to all my tractors and duramax trucks. No problems thus far. Been doing this for a few years now


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## eam77 (Aug 4, 2013)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> By the way, I use their lubricity formula. What do you guys use?


Please expand on "lubricity formula". What does this mean.

Is this from Standadiyne.

After checking, I find "Standadiyne" twice the price of "Sellers". Any comments about whether it is worth it?

My local tech. says just

use ATF. I sure would like to hear from an engineer who specializes on injection pumps on these jubjects.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> The only difference between the road fuel and farm fuel is the dye.
> 
> Unless one is just straight #2 and the other is a premium diesel.


The co op here mixes an additive with all their diesel when it is delivered to them. Road and farm fuel. The road fuel we use comes from another place. Not sure if they mix any additives when its delivered. I doubt they do, so we have been using the Stanadyne additive since the last pump rebuild.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> My local tech. says just
> 
> use ATF. I sure would like to hear from an engineer who specializes on injection pumps on these jubjects.


I would steer clear of ATF. It has about the lubricity of milk, as I understand. Two stroke oil would be a better el cheapo option.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

There's a big difference in fuels, the place we used to buy from would take no.2 fuel oil, dump some additives in it and call it Premier diesel fuel. We've been buying Premium diesel from the co-op with soy oil added. After we get pre-pay discounts, bulk discount and some back at the end of the year it's actually cheaper than where we were getting the hopped up fuel oil from.

Some of the co-ops claims have come to fruition as well. Have noticed reduced smoking on a few that were prone to it, hard to say with the weird year if efficiency has gone up any at all. will be really hard to actually tell if we get improved pump and injector life after running the other stuff for so long.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

eam77 said:


> My local tech. says just
> 
> use ATF. I sure would like to hear from an engineer who specializes on injection pumps on these jubjects.


I have a cousin that worked/works for Bosch. He certainly knew some stuff on injection pumps and what not when the subject came up on trying to get some more ponies out of my Cummins. I'll see if I can get ahold of him one of these days.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Yes. I use Stanadyne. It is used as an additive for low sulfur diesel fuel.


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## mikegxp3 (May 5, 2014)

I just read through these posts and would like to suggest Xp3 to anyone experiencing fuel system problems. Almost everyone mentioned something in a post that could potentially be a problem for a fuel system... insufficient lubrication because of lower sulfur amounts in diesel, water in fuel, bio-fuel providing less lubrication, algae in the fuel tank, and the list goes on.

Some people on this forum have mentioned using Stanadyne. If you are using that product or any other fuel additive, you have to check out Xp3. Watch this video linked here where I demonstrate the key differences between Xp3 and other products on the market that are oil based. https://www.youtube....h?v=Y-7yvD7q4pA.

I have several customers that run farms and farm equipment who are really liking the results of this product.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

This is an interesting discussion but if you have a tier 4 engine some precautions must be observed. Adding any oil to the fuel is not recommended. New Holland recently sent out a service bulletin on Bio fuel and tier 4 engines.If you want warranty protection you will need to follow their reccomendations. B5 has few restrictions, but B10 and above require proper storage facilities with a short storage time. Oil change intervals also need to shortened as the Bio percentages increase. Some of their engines will not be warrantied if you go above B10. With the high cost of tier 4 engine fuel components you should be aware of the manufacturers requirements before purchasing fuel or additives. I would say not too many people will be happy paying 2000.00 or more for 1 injector.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Why the short storage time? We routinely have left over summer blend in the fall start using it again in the spring with no problems. Of course we don't have any fancy smancy tier 4 engines either.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Why the short storage time? We routinely have left over summer blend in the fall start using it again in the spring with no problems. Of course we don't have any fancy smancy tier 4 engines either.


The more Bio the more it draws moisture causing algae growth plus water contamination. Tier 4 is going to be one big headache.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Gotcha. Not sure we've had any water related problems. Always add algicide to it as well.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Water in the fuel has also been a big problem with tier 3 engine fuel systems. You have such tight tolerances and a little water will destroy the pump. I would also add that if your fuel storage tank has a number of years on it, then I would look for a new tank because of rust accumulation. Also never ever prefill a fuel filter. Doing so dumps unfiltered fuel into the injection pump and injectors. A definite problem for tier 3 and tier 4 engines.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We have pre-filters on our storage tanks, not on the transfer tanks though. I usually always install em dry then use the hand pump on the tractor to refill em, no point in wearing anymore fuel than required.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

mlappin said:


> We have pre-filters on our storage tanks, not on the transfer tanks though. I usually always install em dry then use the hand pump on the tractor to refill em, no point in wearing anymore fuel than required.


I think alot of the problems were are seeing are because of the transfer tanks or people using buckets to fill their fuel tanks. There again, a near empty fuel tank will condense moisture be it on the tractor or your fuel storage tanks. Unless you can use a large amount of fuel regularly year round you are better off with a smaller storage tank and have it filled more often. Tier 4 is going to cause a lot of expensive lessons on fuel storage and usage. It is better to be prepared and take the precautions necessary to prevent fuel system failure.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I think there is a lot of confusion due to the different types of pumps and systems:

-Common rail has extremely high pressures at the pump and tight tolerances. They do not like dirt or water period.

-Tier 2/3/4 even non-common rail have tight clearances but not nearly as bad as common rail. Inline plunger style are a bit more forgiving usually.

-Rotary pumps do not like water period! They have spinning parts with tight clearance that need certain properties of lube. Bio-diesel is often too thick for them cold, water is too thin. Dirt in that space ruins things quick!

Read some of the US military analysis reports of pump failures in Gulf war, pretty interesting. Dirt scoring metering valves leading to poor/no shutdown was a pretty common failure.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

> I think alot of the problems were are seeing are because of the transfer tanks or people using buckets to fill their fuel tanks. There again, a near empty fuel tank will condense moisture be it on the tractor or your fuel storage tanks. Unless you can use a large amount of fuel regularly year round you are better off with a smaller storage tank and have it filled more often.


That's exactly what the local bulk dealer told my Dad years ago. Which is why I still use 5-gallon "gas cans". But it is a pain loading, filling, & unloading 50 or 60 gallons that way, So late last season I started using 3 of the 15 gallon plastic drums for transport. I also have a funnel with a fine screen in the bottom I always use when filling the tractor.

AND try to keep the tractor fuel tank full at then end of the day.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Seems to depend on the mood of the dealer when we buy fuel, we try to buy in bulk when we can and more often than not they want to deliver all at once which is why we have a 4000 gallon for summer fuel and a 2000 for winter fuel. We do have the see thru pre filters on the pumps so you can see if any water is collecting. Also have the glass water separators on all the tractors.

Always try to fill tractor tanks before parking for the off season as well.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The problems with my pump were the tank on my truck, water got past the threads into the diesel, enough to fill my filter/separator and get into tractor which then filled the tractor filter full until tractor stalled. I was quiet surprised given the minimal opportunity to get in the tank and number of filters/separators.

Since I don't run a spare underneath I've been trying to find an Excursion tank for my gas F350 that would hang in that space and give me 30 gallons or so diesel capacity without taking up the bed.


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