# Twine knots between bundles.



## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Several times in various posts, I've seen people mention problems with the knot between bundles of twine going through the knotters (small square balers). I have always wondered about this since I have never seen that happen on any of the balers I have run. I've seen one (that I didn't tie) pull apart, but never had one hang up in the knotter. I always use a square knot (see the picture) and after I have tied it, pull it nice and tight and then trim the ends as close as I can. Is this what everyone else is doing? Do I just have a really good run of luck with my knotters?

Just for a little background, I run #9000 sisal twine and have never really dealt with poly twine (maybe that's the difference?).


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Josh in WNY said:


> Several times in various posts, I've seen people mention problems with the knot between bundles of twine going through the knotters (small square balers). I have always wondered about this since I have never seen that happen on any of the balers I have run. I've seen one (that I didn't tie) pull apart, but never had one hang up in the knotter. I always use a square knot (see the picture) and after I have tied it, pull it nice and tight and then trim the ends as close as I can. Is this what everyone else is doing? Do I just have a really good run of luck with my knotters?
> 
> Just for a little background, I run #9000 sisal twine and have never really dealt with poly twine (maybe that's the difference?).


From my experience, I think if you use a square knot, pulled tightly and trimmed well it is only a coincidence when the knot hits the knotter sequence perfectly. Then you get a knot on a knot which is a mess. A missed knot on twine changeover is more frequent. I have a NH570 and use 7200 sisal.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> From my experience, I think if you use a square knot, pulled tightly and trimmed well it is only a coincidence when the knot hits the knotter sequence perfectly. Then you get a knot on a knot which is a mess.


This is the only time I ever have problem with splice knots. On a single tie big square, 350 x 4000 poly twine. I tie a tight square knot and trim for about 1" tails.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I use the same knot, & trim pretty close too. I've never had a problem, that I know of, with the twine-bale-change knot messing up. I have had problems with knots, but none that I'm aware of due to that.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Most twine change troubles are not from the square knot actually getting caught in the knotter but from that knot not sliding around the bale smoothly as the twine feeds. So your goal on tying a knot between balls is to make as easy-feeding of a knot as possible, and if you run a lot of chamber tension, you need to run comparably high twine holder tension to make transitions go smoothly.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> Most twine change troubles are not from the square knot actually getting caught in the knotter but from that knot not sliding around the bale smoothly as the twine feeds. So your goal on tying a knot between balls is to make as easy-feeding of a knot as possible, and if you run a lot of chamber tension, you need to run comparably high twine holder tension to make transitions go smoothly.


So you're thinking that the additional force from the knot sliding around the end of the bale results in pulling the twine out of the twine disc? That's something that I hadn't considered. I would imagine it may be more of a problem with smaller diameter twine where the size difference between the twine and the knot is probably greater.\


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Josh in WNY said:


> So you're thinking that the additional force from the knot sliding around the end of the bale results in pulling the twine out of the twine disc? That's something that I hadn't considered. I would imagine it may be more of a problem with smaller diameter twine where the size difference between the twine and the knot is probably greater.\


Precisely. Except I don't know that it is anymore of an issue with thin twine. Thick twine makes thick knots and is likely more difficult to pull tight.


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## SixesnSevens (Jun 19, 2011)

I've always used a simple overhand knot. Pulled tight and trimmed close it is quite small (unlike the one shown below). I've never observed whether the knot naturally points outward when the twine is under tension. If so, it would not cause extra friction when being pulled across the end of a bale.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I use a simple over hand knot as well. I really hadnt had problems before. This year I had problems twice. I think it might be luck of the draw. Both times the knot was hung up on the bill hook. Luckly pretty easy fix on the new holland as you can flip the knoters up out of the way to get to it. Just used a pair of needle nose to pull the mess out.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I find the best knot to use is a Sheet Bend. It is designed to join two pieces of rope together and it has the ability to slip through an opening if fed through in the right direction. works like a charm! (I'm a rigger in my other life)


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> Precisely. Except I don't know that it is anymore of an issue with thin twine. Thick twine makes thick knots and is likely more difficult to pull tight.


Yeah, I guess you're correct. I was just thinking of the knots I saw at some hay I looked at the other day. It was polly twine and the size difference between the knot and the twine was surprising. That was not a square knot, though, but whatever type of knot the knotters on balers make. What is the name for them anyway? They look a lot like the overhand knot that SixensnSevens posted a picture of above.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

DSLinc1017 said:


> I find the best knot to use is a Sheet Bend. It is designed to join two pieces of rope together and it has the ability to slip through an opening if fed through in the right direction. works like a charm! (I'm a rigger in my other life)


That's almost the same thing as the square knot I use, just that the one tail (red) doesn't get pulled back through the loop (blue).


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

I have a fairly new John Deere 338 that will occasionally miss during twine change. I think my best run this year was 2000 bales before a miss. I tie a square knot and leave a 3/4" tail. I started out tieing a sheet bend per the JD manual and trimming close. This caused a miss at every twine change. The mechanic at the local dealership put me on to the square knot and longer tails.


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

Square knot with leading ball tail looped and knotted back. Both tails lay backwards and you have a tapered knot. I would post a pic but I guess I don't know how


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/gallery/image/901-img-0918/

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/gallery/image/902-img-0919/


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Not sure why my picture on my post is now not there? Any way with a sheet bend, if tied correctly both ends of the dead ends will lay in the same direction.


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## baleboy (Sep 14, 2013)

I use sisal twine--I tie the two ends together like the beginning of tieing your shoe and then spit on the 2 ends and sort of meld them together and then pull it tight. I've never had any major problems.


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## AndyL (Mar 9, 2013)

See, Twine Knotting, 3/4 way down this page. I've been using it sense this article, and like it. Seems to be a smoother knot. Even been using it splicing gator lines. Holds good.

http://www.progressiveforage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5100:august-15-2013-issue-forage-forum-&catid=110:forage-forum&Itemid=162


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

use the square knot its the most consistent,

if its pulling it out of the twine disk from the splice in the twine balls creating extra resistance i would venture a guess your twine disk tension is not set tight enough. check the spec on how to check it, usually a scale and a pull test but its one heck of a pull.

like someone mentioned earlier the chances of that square knot being in the exact spot to hit the knotters you would think is very rare but it happens but a lot of times when your bill hook gets hung up its your wiper arm not clearing everything off cause the wiper knife is dull and leaving small strands of twine hanging in the twine disk or under your bill hook and then it grabs when it ties and bang your hung up.

also how is your tucker finger adjustment as that will sometimes give the same symptom of what looks like twine disk slip as the twine is not being dropped into the disks.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The reef knot (square) and the sheet bend are both good but the overhand knot referred to by SIXESANDSEVENS is the knot tied by the baler and is very simple to tie has very good knot strength and will not give trouble unless the happens to be in the twine disc to billhook range when the knot ties. A lottery that you can be unlucky to win. I use a poly twine distributed in Australia by NH that gives over 500 bales per bundle (set of two) and have on occasion baled over 8000 without a breakage but then had breakage on successive changeovers. This poly twine has minimum break strength of 150 kg (330lbs) and minimum knot strength of 74Kg or 163lbs. Different knots deliver a different knot strength but all knots are weaker then the nominal twine strength.

My reasoning for using the balers own style of knot is that if it is strong enough for the baler it is strong enough at any other point on the bale.

I used to use the square knot and had some issues :angry: so then tied each tail to the adjoining twine and trimmed closely but even then some problems  so tried the overhand knot.

Whatever the case, if the knot you use works for you, then keep using it.

Never let style overrule substance!


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