# bale chute extension on a new holland 5060 small sq baler



## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I was thinking of getting a new baler and I see that there is a bale chute extension that can go with the baler 1/4 turn and I don't know what it's for or is it worth getting or even necessary. Can someone explain why I would want one or its purpose? thanks.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about, but I suspect I might know based on the 1/4 turn you mentioned. In your part of the country do the balers not have something on the back of the baler to turn the bale when it is coming out so the strings are on the side? I think this is what you are talking about. In our area no hay baler goes without one as you need the bales with strings on the side for the hay stacker wagons to pick them up. I didn't realize that was considered an option. And if that is it every baler company has one. But maybe I'm reading your post wrong. I guess if you never plan on having a NH hay stacker help you pick up the bales then it isn't necessary. I guess if you pick them up by hand strings up would be easier. I would get out of the hay business if I had to do that by hand.


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## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

I believe it is standard on the 5070 and it allows two full tied bales to be in the chute making for more consistent tension and hence bale size.


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

your reading it right. Most balers up here(Alaska) don't have the 1/4 turn and almost no one uses a bale wagon. I only do a few thousand bales a year but I'm getting to old and I did get an old bale wagon out of Montana to help me pick up bales so I needed the 1/4 turn. Plus it keeps more of the cold wet ground away from the hay. Most of the time I can't use the bale wagon because it breaks 1 out of ten, so I do it by hand by putting the bales on the table but I can still use it to stack. i need a better bale, my old 273 just has just about wore out. Your right I should of just quit. Thanks


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I thank you for pointing out the fact that two tied bales are there at the same time. My only keeps one when the next one ties it drops one. With the old chute it used to stay on so there where two tied bales being pushed but only one in the chute the other just set on the ramp until it fell. Maybe that one reason my bales aren't so tight. I never thought about it until you pointed it out. Thanks I thought my baler was just getting worn out. I still need a new one it to speed up my baling by two or three times and up here we don't get much time to bale. Now if I get two bales a min. I'm doing good. i watched some clips on the enternet and looks like they where dropping 6 or 7 bales a min. Does that sound right to you?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

If you like it then don't quit. Just after having a hay stacker all my life I wouldn't want to do the amount of hay I do by hand. Especially since I'm allergic to it. In early 2000 we were still using a 1976 NH baler. It just wouldn't make good bales no matter how much we tried to adjust it and what parts we replaced. Especially on 3rd cutting grass hay. It was just plain worn out. We bought a new NH and have been making good bales every since. What kind of hay are you baling in Alaska? And what is your season like?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

wjkrostek said:


> I was thinking of getting a new baler and I see that there is a bale chute extension that can go with the baler 1/4 turn and I don't know what it's for or is it worth getting or even necessary. Can someone explain why I would want one or its purpose? thanks.


As far as I know, the 1/4 turn chute extension is only used if you use a stacker wagon to pick up your bales. It would be a PITA to hand pick them that way and I doubt you'd want to use it with one of those "drag the bales" accumulators. I had one on my baler when I still used my old stacker wagon. When I sold it and went to the Hoelscher it came off and has set in the shed ever since. If someone needs one....it's still pretty, with green paint that adds to it's value.


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

where I'm at we can only count on one cutting of our local grass hay of quality hay. Mostly brome timothy mix and a lot of quack grass I call wheat grass. Get about one ton to one and half ton to the acre. Can grow it thicker but it's hard to get it dry if you do. Sun stays up but there just isn't a lot of drying taking place most of the time. Our raining season comes after the 4th of July and last until it snows in Sept Oct. So the growing dry season is mid May to mid July and we get very little rain during that time. As far as rain we don't get a lot just like 17inches a year but most is in snow. our problem is we get it .01 to .1 inches a day 1/4inch is a big rain. Just enough to keep you from baling. The only thing that saves us is we can get $10 a bale. Which NH is you get and how many bales can you kick out a min? i need to speed up my process so I can get more in the bale faster. our rain usually isn't enough to hurt the bales but getting them in the bale at less than 18% is the problem.


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## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

With my 5070 I average 300/hour and occasionally hit 350/hour on really good hay that I have the windrows the right size


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

yes sir that would speed it up a bit. I make 120 max now. I think the only difference between the 5060 and the 5070 is the width of the pick up. when I checked the nh build your own i saw the bale ext, it is available for the 5070 too. so maybe you don't have it on yours. I'd like to know if its worth the 350 bucks or just nice to have, what size tractor are you using to get 300/hr. My biggest tractor is around 60 hp at the pto. Do you think 60hp is big enough to run that baler at 300/hr? the 5060 and 5070 seem to be the same speed and size. except for the pick up. at 1.5 ton/ acre my windrows aren't that big. I can see where following the combine the wider would be more useful.


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## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

I pull it with an Allis Chalmers 6080 which is 84 PTO horsepower. I have a BC5070 Hayliner and with the 'Hayliner' model it has larger tires, hardened plunger rails, hydroformatic bale tension, extended bale case, larger twine box and hydraulic tongue swing and pickup lift. The wider pickup is almost worth is alone.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

The extension that you refer to for $350 simply adds about 18-24 inches to the bale chamber. You have the basic baler, then the extension bolts on to it, then the 1/4 chute bolts on to that. Or the 1/4 chute can just bolt on to the chamber. If your yield is small (like you say), then I think I'd skip the extension. You can always add it later if you think it's a big deal. It's just to help to make the bales a more consistant length. It also has 'doors' on the side (just like the balers own bale chamber) to let you make the tension greater, to allow a tighter bale. i'm thinking that it's going to be hard for you to make 300 bales an hour, simply cause you'd have to drive twice as fast as you do now. I assume that you don't poke around now? 60 hp is also a concern to run the baler at a capacity like that - if you stuff a lot of hay into the thing, it is going to run hard. 84 hp vs 60 is still 24 hp, and 84hp is over 1/3 bigger in size. I think you might be able to do 200 per hour, but not much more. Have you looked into any presevatives?

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I go slow with my NH273 at my best I can make 2 bales a min. but it has to be dry to do that. I agree with you on hp and I guess I'll see what happens because I bought the baler today. Best I could do is $23,375 which I can never make up. I figure you would have to add 2 bucks a bale just to pay for machine. But the time to bale is so limited I had to do something. Time will tell if it was the right choice or not, and I will live with it, got to be better than the one I have. My biggest fields are 10 acres then I have to move to another.
I do use a preservative. I made applicator my self with a 8 gal tank 12 volt pump and three spray tips and that has worked fine for me. 
The dealer wants thousands (I think he said 6) of dollars for this set up which will never pay for it's self. I over apply as I have to set it at about 1 gal per ton and I have to adjust the amount by how fast I can but the bales though. I need to add one gal of water to the acid to thin it out so it will mist the acid on the bale right but it does work. I have several size spray tips I use so I can adjust the amount applied that way to. by adding water I can also adjust the amount I apply. that stuff really works. Many customers don't want the acid it but I seem to sell everything I make. Many if I didn't tell them they would never know it was there. Let me know what you think.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

2 bales per minute. When I was setting up/calibrating the acid applicators I was timing how fast bales came out the back, and I think it was 1 bale every 9 seconds. I know that hay was doing about 3.5 ton/acre, and there was 100hp in front of the baler. That was with a 575, which is now the 5070, but if the yield is good, 100hp is not too much in the front of the baler. Each time the plunger goes the tractor lurches a little.

On the acid.... will your dealer only sell the $6K version of the applicator? The one a guy can easily get by with is in the low $800's. - It uses a 30 gallon tank, 2 spray nozzles, a pressure guage, and a control box with an on/off and a pressure dial. Real simple to use - if you can't get the application you need with the nozzles that are in, you change them out, but otherwise, you have about 50lbs of pressure to adjust to get the application rate a guy needs.

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

Is that a constant 50 psi? Thats how you get it to mist. I don't have a gage but I know mine doesn't put out nothing like that and it pulses with each pump. So I found that by mixing water with the acid it really improves the delivery and mists very fine. and it I need less acid I can add an extra gal of water. I'm adding a little pit of water you don't want but at a quart or so to the ton it's meaningless. As long as I get my target rate applied thats the best I can do. If I put out a lot of bales I may have to find another type of pump. What are you using for a pump? You just have a valve to turn it down after the pump so get your amount you want to apply? The one the dealer sells has the meter in the baler to apply the right amount as it goes though the baler. I said I don't like that because up here we have such a change in moisture and volume in the same field and even in the same windrow. Some spots will have 25% moisture and some will be dry and not treated. But you will be putting all the hay in the same stack. We know not to stack treated hay with untreated hay why would I want to make it that way on purpose and then stack them together. If I need the acid I just apply it to all and I have never had a problem with it. He just looked at me funny. I don't like dealing with dealers much.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I think I have you confused. The applicator that we have is the MUCH cheaper version of the one the dealer wants to sell you. I don't know what kind of pump it is. Normal ole tee jet nozzles, and the pressure can be infinitely varied between 15 psi, and 70psi. That's how a guy gets the application rate that he needs. The control box has a rotary dial on it, and that just speeds the pump up or down, and therefore varies the pressure, and the actual pounds per ton that the unit puts on the hay. The nozzles can be easily changed, and that will give an whole other range of pounds per ton application rates. We run an in-chamber moisture tester, and given the readout of that thing, a guy knows how or if he has to alter the pressure. With a little use the whole thing becomes real easy, as I am sure your system is easy for you to use. They say that the acid will move around in the bale a a little, but like you say I don't know that I'd want to stack untreated hay and wet hay in the same stack.

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I made a very similar applicator just like what you have except the pump pressure cant be changed. it's just a regular 12 volt pump like they use in motor homes for water. I have to use different tee jet nozzles, change speed for more or less bales or add water to fine turn the amount of acid. I need some water or the acid just doesn't mist which is what I want. More pressure may mist with out the water but I'd need a different pump. Is your coming out as a fine mist? To keep it simple I use a hand held moisture tester and if its over 20 percent I just try to put 1 gal per ton or a little less. I've never seen a 12 volt pump you could change the pressure on. thats why I'd like to find out which one your using. My pumps cost about $100 your pump may be a lot more expensive. My system works and cost less than $300. The acid cost me about $20/ gal but I can sell my hay for $300 to $400 per ton so it pays to use it, for me anyway. At least one other up here has tried using the acid and they think it doesn't work. In my opinion that just can't be. Must be more to his story and he has the expensive model on a large square baler. Have you heard of any failures using the acid?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I really don't know anything about the pump - the applicator was made by Harvestec. It's a model 441 if you dare to go inot the dealer, they might be able to give more info on it. I think the pump runs about $140, but don't quote me on that. We got a spare a few years back, so my memory is a little foggy. The acid does come out in a mist.

I haven't measured the voltage going back to the motor as a guy turns the dial, but it seems reasonable to me that if the dial would simply regulate the amount of current to the motor, it would alter the speed of the motor, and hence the pressure of the acid. I'd bet a large sum of money that you are probably not making enough pressure to make the nozzles spray right. The whole system uses a 1/2 hose, and stainless teejet tips..... 650033 is the one we run most of the time. i found out quickly that the nozzles HAVE to be stainless, cause the acid will eat anything else. And the gauge either needs what they call an 'isolator' or has to be capable of handling the acid, I had one w/o the isolator die in a few hours. I was trying to do something cheaper, and that didn't work. You should make sure that your pump hasn't been 'altered' by the acid.

The only time that I've ever heard of a failure with using acid, was by not using enough/baling hay that was too wet.

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for the conversation. Sounds like we are on the same sheet. I'll see if the dealer has a motor most likely not because he seems to need to order every thing to keep his cost down for him and he can charge the buyer the shipping. But I won't know until I ask. One other variable is My nozzles are the smallest teejet makes because I had to go so slow with the old baler I needed very little acid. If I can go faster with the new baler I will have to use bigger nozzles so maybe it will spray better. Without the water mine will just come out like a squirt gun and a little water thins it out good. I'll find out next year. The pumps I use last one or two years and I need a new one. Thanks again.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I don't know how much the pumps cost, or how much you have to spend to get yours, but the harvestec pumps last a long time. They've been pumping acid for over 10 years, and I haven't had to replace one.

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

let me ask you if you take your off and rinse it out your pump with water during the winter and store it where it doesn't freeze. Or maybe it would be better to leave it on the machine and just run water and then some antifreeze through it for the winter. Just what have you been doing with yours to get it to last 10 years? do you rinse it between cuttings or just leave it all hooked up?


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

what do you do with your pump between uses or over the winter? Do you rinse it out with water or antifreeze. Take it off and store it warm anything you do will help me figure out what to do. I'll ask the dealer more info when I pick up my baler some time this winter. If they last ten years it could cost 600 dollars and it would still be cheap.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If you're using acid no need to drain it and use antifreeze, least their wasn't with the brand I was using. This year I used hay guard, I drained the last of the product out of the tank, flushed it with water, drained again, then ran a few gallons of RV antifreeze thru it.

I may be misunderstanding the conversation so far, but you don't want a fine mist when treating the hay, the slightest breeze will blow it away before it's on the hay, also a very fine mist will float away on its own and get all over the baler, the insides of the baler and who know where else. You want a even application for sure, but a mist is not the way to go, more like a person wants when applying herbicides with a sprayer. Acids work like a fumigant anyways so you don't need to try to get a 100% coverage.


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

Mist might of been the wrong word. But a very fine spray anyway. And your right it's fine enough to blow away with a wind but so will herbicide spray. If I don't mix a little water with the crop saver it comes out like a squirt gun. So I thin it out with a little water (say 20%)to get a fine spray and use less acid. With my NH 273 I have been making about a bale every 50 seconds it,s hard to go fast enough to keep from over applying the acid. I have been using the teejet TX-VS1 through TX-VS3 nozzles and it looks like even with twice or three times as much hay gong in my new baler (new holland 5060) I'll still have to use these specialty cone nozzles. Can you tell me which nozzles you have been using? Has your pump been lasting for years and years also.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Our procedure for winterizing has been very simple. Nothing. When we're doe baling they get parked in the shed, and in spring they'll get hooked up and come outside. The first year we did the whole drain, and flush with RV antifreeze, and then I saw in the operator manual that if the acid was higher than the pump, then do nothing. I'm not sure how cold it gets and if it would freeze, only then would I think about doing something. I'm betting that you ought to invest in a pressure gauge. How do you know how much you're applying? I think you said you have 3 nozzles..... with the smallest 3, you ought to be able to make a mist with plain acid. Our applicator only has 2 nozzles, (most of them do) I wonder if you could remove one, if that would be enough boost in pressure that you wouldn't have to use water?

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I make the judgment to use the acid and then I just turn it on and go. after some bales I stop and look to see how much I have been applying. I judge everything on putting I gal to the ton so after 40 bales I should have a gal missing. If I need less I just go faster, if I cant then can I add some water. My tank is marked so it is easy to tell how much I apply. With a pressure gage I would still do it the same way. I have no way to change the pressure so my only options are different nozzles and changing speeds or adding water. Much of my acid is over applied and I go for the wettest I think I will run into. I have gone to two nozzles to keep for over applying the acid and using less water. The smallest nozzle buts out .015 gals/ min. With the new baler going faster I'll have to go with larger nozzles. I was doing it with three to make sure I got better coverage but after I went to two It seemed to work just as well. Do you know what size nozzles you use? I've never seen a store bought unit. After i use a little water the acid does freeze but the pure stuff doesn't and it gets 30 below and colder. Cant really say I checked it that cold but I have checked it and have never seen it frozen unless I had water with it.


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

I forgot to ask you what the manual said if the acid is lower than the pump. You said if the acid is higher do nothing but what about lower? Thats the way mine is. If it make a difference when I make another one for the new baler I can put the pump lower. I can't see what the difference would be. I will have to drain mine if I had any water in the last batch I used.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2011)

I never thought about it until you pointed it out. I thought my baler was just getting worn out.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

wjkrostek said:


> Mist might of been the wrong word. But a very fine spray anyway. And your right it's fine enough to blow away with a wind but so will herbicide spray.


If that's a problem then a lower pressure needs to be run which will also require larger nozzles to still get the same amount of product.



wjkrostek said:


> Can you tell me which nozzles you have been using? Has your pump been lasting for years and years also.


Run three nozzles for the low setting, one large one for medium and a larger one yet for high setting. On the acid I used to apply 4, 8 and 16 pounds. When first switching to Hayguard I did as recommended and installed the small nozzles, didn't work. I would be either spraying a super fine mist or just couldn't get enough on so I went back to the large nozzles, ended up with much less drift and could get enough on without having to slow down.

For high output I use a 650050 in each outer nozzle and a XR110001VS in the center, pump #2 gets a XR11003VS and pump #3 gets a XR11006VS.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Not certain what effect that having the acid lower than the pump would have, other than the pump might not have acid in it. These pumps are mounted under than tank, so there's never an issue, not sure whay they even mentioned it in the book. Our applicators have 2 nozzles in them, either 2-650033, 2-650050, 2-6501, or 2-6502. We use different pressure and nozzles to very the application rate. You either drive slower/faster or add water. So it all accomplishes the same goal.

Rodney


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## wjkrostek (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks Rodney, I think we both must be doing the same thing just i a little different way. If you get a chance to go by your baler and you can will write down the make and model number off your pump so I can do some home work, I'll try and find one and read up on it. I sure would like to get more than a year or two out of mine. I'm still trying to figure out how you adjust the pressure. is there a recirculating line that feeds back to the tank. I could see that would reduce the pressure. But mine pulses so much as its a diaphragm pump maybe your uses is a impeller? My pump looks like it goes from low pressure to 45 psi once a second or two.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Really old thread but did you ever find out why your 273 isn't baling right? The neighbours 273 will do almost 200 bales an hour without pushing it too hard and make nice looking bales. My JD 336 will outrun it but not by a giant margin, I can keep up about 250 bales an hour in good going.


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