# 459 JD round baler help



## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm beginning to lose hope in getting this thing to work right. I Thought putting new tires and getting it proper hitch height fixed it but the problem of it plugging has reappeared.

I bought this baler a year ago with 3300 bales on it. It's a 2014 and was owned by a dairy it baled some corn stocks and I don't think it was treated well but shouldn't be worn out?

From almost day one I've struggled with it plugging up and kicking the slip clutch. Deere reps have been out 5 times now and all of them have resulted in apprently nothing wrong or me doing something wrong supposedly.

This is my first round baler and first time I've ever used one so maybe it is my fualt but more I watch you tube read and talk to people with them I don't think its my fualt.

So far I've thoroughly cleaned greesed and went over it looking for any physical problems. I went though and straighted all pick up teeth and feed slots so nothing it touching or rubbing. I've put new tires on tractor and gotten it proper height off hitch. Went though and properly programmed computer. Everything seems to be right. It makes perfect bales and wraps wonderful.

In dry hay 8 to 12 percent it rearly plugs up until over 4mph then it will plug sometimes . In wetter hay such as 15 to 25 it plugs much over 3mph and any thick spots in Windows will plug it. Hay 30 and up it really won't bale at all unless windrows are very light.

My hay is grass clover mix and around 2 tons per acre at heaviest I rake 14 to 22 feet of hay together into one window with either bar or rotoaty rake neither seems to make problem any different. My ground is very hilly and it does seem to plug worse going up then coming down hill.

In the year I've owned it I've made around 75 bales and its plugged more then double that. Some bales I've baled 3 and 4 times due to plugging when almost a full bale and having to dump.

I bought this as the back up plan newer reliable baler to get hay out of field fast so I didn't have to worry about brake downs. So far couldn't be further from truth.

I really like the bales it makes and way they wrap. Also dealer is very close.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

At what RPM are you running your tractor? What tractor are you using to run baler?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Does your baler have regular or Mega-wide pick up attachment? How low are you operating pickup teeth to ground? Which holes are utilized to mount wheel axles?

Do you own a laser thermometer so you could check beginning & then operating temp of main slip clutch????????????? ?

2 ton to the acre hay should not be a problem to bale without plugging.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

Running with a case 2090 roughly 108 pto HP.

Mega wide pick up baler with net and twine also the verible core.

I believe I'm on the upper hole with teeth in level ground around 3in off ground the wheels just nearly touch on level. Seems this way I'm little higher then should be on flat but still sucks hay then when I get in all my dips and holes I'm not smacking ground horridly.

My PTO sensor on the baler says at max throttle its turning around 552rpm that said I try to run it little under max to be close to 540 but ive played with less and more pto speed to no real difference that I've noticed.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

I've not checked temps had crossed my mind as buddy does have a laser themomtor


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Has any of the JD service Reps run the tractor and baler? Could they make it bale any faster when they operated the tractor?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

If baler pto sensor speed remains constant with tractor pto speed then that should rule out pto slip clutch slipping which is why I suggested to test temp of SC with thermometer. Did you check tire mounting hole location?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm shooting from the hip,not a JD guy.But my guess is the pickup slip clutch is faulty.It also says that in operators manual.to replace.And have a friend had similar problem with 467 but his answer was to get rid of it when JD guys couldn't get it working.

http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OME97074_19/AG_OUO6017_1698_19_08NOV99_1.htm


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## Redbaler (Jun 10, 2011)

Long shot but have you tried a different tractor?


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> I'm shooting from the hip,not a JD guy.But my guess is the pickup slip clutch is faulty.It also says that in operators manual.to replace.And have a friend had similar problem with 467 but his answer was to get rid of it when JD guys couldn't get it working.
> 
> http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OME97074_19/AG_OUO6017_1698_19_08NOV99_1.htm


Could be but on my 468 that pick up clutch make a pretty loud clicking noise when ever it slips.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rajela said:


> Could be but on my 468 that pick up clutch make a pretty loud clicking noise when ever it slips. That slip clutch also has to be greased on a regular basis and could be faulty for sure.


He could be like my old hired man with radio wide open and ear plugs in and can't hear a thing,lol.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Could be but on my 468 that pick up clutch make a pretty loud clicking noise when ever it slips. That slip clutch also has to be greased on a regular basis and could be faulty for sure.


JD altered their outlook on greasing PU slip clutch and IIRC deleted the grease fitting.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes Jim it isn't showing any more in the parts diagram. If he has the Bale Pro Monitor it should be giving an alarm.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Did I read right that he is running pick up teeth 3" off of the ground. I have mine set at about an 1" and the pick up wheels are just barely or not yet touching the ground. You can still spin the pick up wheels when the pickup is all the way down. Not that that would keep it from feeding just saying.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela

I'm not following you as to why alarm should sound off from plugging baler. Is there a slip clutch speed alarm? I think I found SC sensor in PC.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Might try replacing the clutch and just see if that is what is causing it. Would be a pretty expensive trial and error if it did not fix it.

*Qty.*

*Part No.*

*Description*

*Availability *

*Comments*

*Unit Price**

*Total Price**

*Hold*

*Delete*

AFH206427

Slip Clutch - SLIP CLUTCH, HAY PICKUP










<a> ADD</a>

497.15 USD

497.15 USD










**Subtotal *

497.15 USD

**Total *

497.15 USD


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

If he is plugging the baler and the slip alarm is not sounding on the monitor then he needs to listen and see if he can hear the pickup clutch slipping. I have never just plugged the pickup without plugging the whole baler.

I take it he isn't just plugging the pickup and the pickup stops turning. He is talking about plugging the complete baler and having to eject the bale so he can unplug it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela

Yes you read teeth 3" off ground which should aid feeding of hay into baler but leave a lot off hay on the ground. Relation of gauge wheels to pickup teeth height is adjustable.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Really.....................


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Really.....................


OK please explain what you're referring to when you typed "Really........" as my crystal ball got broken years back.

Thanks,Jim


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

That the pickup wheels are adjustable......and explain to me why you don't think the slip alarm should sound when the baler plugs???


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Please forgive me BUT due to the fact that my 467 doesn't have PU & drive shaft speed sensors I FORGET that later model JD rd balers have shaft RPM sensors which should set off an alarm when shaft speed gets lower than set speed.. All JD rd balers I've seen since 466 Mega-wide-469 Premium have height adjustable gauge wheels similar to photo


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes Jim I understand that they have adjustable wheels. I stated that I had my wheels set to be just a hair off of the ground when my hydraulic pickup has been lowered down and this put my pick up tines about an inch off the ground.

I too will send my apologizes for my statement "really". I am now aware that your crystal ball is broken and you did not understand that I was making a sarcastic statement that I wasn't a total idiot and I was aware that JD balers had adjustable wheels on the pickups.


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## Redbaler (Jun 10, 2011)

Thinking outside the box. Does hay ever wrap around the starter roll? Deere baler owners correct me if it's not possible but could a chain be routed around wrong so that the starter roll turns backwards? All the green balers I've seen in the last 15 years have been hay eating sob's. Even if they had 15000 bales on them. Maybe it's not even a pickup problem.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Yes Jim I understand that they have adjustable wheels. I stated that I had my wheels set to be just a hair off of the ground when my hydraulic pickup has been lowered down and this put my pick up tines about an inch off the ground.
> 
> I too will send my apologizes for my statement "really". I am now aware that your crystal ball is broken and you did not understand that I was making a sarcastic statement that I wasn't a total idiot and I was aware that JD balers had adjustable wheels on the pickups.


I'm not trying to get in a urinating contest as I can barely get urine stream past my toes but I fail to see after rereading your comments that you previously acknowledged that the afore mentioned baler had adjustable gauge wheels. If I'm not understanding your statement as you intended it I want to APOLOGIZE!!!!!!!!!.

I'll quote your statement I think you're referring to:

[/quote]I have mine set at about an 1" and the pick up wheels are just barely or not yet touching the ground. You can still spin the pick up wheels when the pickup is all the way down.[/quote]

Further more I think I did not state or imply that you or anyone else was an idiot.

Ultimately all we're trying to accomplish is help OP bale hay EASIER.

Jim


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Redbaler said:


> Thinking outside the box. Does hay ever wrap around the starter roll? Deere baler owners correct me if it's not possible but could a chain be routed around wrong so that the starter roll turns backwards? All the green balers I've seen in the last 15 years have been hay eating sob's. Even if they had 15000 bales on them. Maybe it's not even a pickup problem.


I agree on hay eating!!!!!!!!! I see no way a chain can be installed in wrong. If starter roll was reversed then the pickup would also be reversed as starter roll powers PU.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

Well I ended up spending 3 hours last night with a Deere tech again. He rode and I drove entire time he was not really willing to drive I guess.

That said it plugged almost instantly. Tech was bit moisturise to say least. Hay was very heavy and somewhat damp on bottom. We got it un plugged and he went though and tightend every chain on it to ensure nothing slipping.

After that it baled 10 in a row before minor plug up when I hit 2nd gear (4mph)

Baled 14 more although slow baled fine.

Techs conclusion was my ground is so steep hilly and uneven that wet spots combinded with bad terrain are why it's pluggig up at any real speeds.

Still not sure I agree with that as I'm not sure if I took this baler to a flat nice field I could run it and not plug it. But either way support from dealer side is pretty much done now.

I don't have any other tractor capable of pulling it.

My teeth are little lower then I though more like 1.5 ins

Wheels are set on top hole

I do have a bale tract pro monitor and when clutch slip at all it screams a loud beep noise at me.

Also when I ay its plugged the feed is plugged the belts pto and such stay working just the pick up plugs up. I have mid bale gotten it to start again but almost impossible to unplug it with half bale still.in there.

I was tempted to buy the 495 buck clutch just to see if it fixed it but kinda alot to gamble lol.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

If the pickup clutch is slipping and the roll is still rolling then I would say that your pickup slip clutch is the problem. If you could get some one to ride with you and after it plugs have them turn on the PTO while you are standing at the slip clutch so you can see what is going on. If the whole baler was plugging then the main slip clutch on the main PTO shaft would be screaming. When that thing is feeding right a little rough ground should not have any effects on it. You spoke about wet hay, how wet are you talking about. Can we get a few picture of the windrows and the green hay.

It would take some really rough ground to cause any problem but it it is rough enough that the pickup teeth are hitting the ground then it could cause it to slip the clutch and then it might plug once the clutch slips. Are the pick up wheels touching the ground? If they aren't then lower them until they are touching the ground so that they will support the pickup when you go over any high spots or thru any dips. The pickup setting at 1.5" should be about right and not cause any problems.

Just for clarification this is a Megawide pickup?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Have any friendly neighbors with nice flat fields?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Flacer22

Does your baler not have the RPM sensor on pickup clutch that rajela mentioned? You should be able to determine if pickup teeth are slowing/stopping without spending $495 for clutch. You could also place a marks-a-lot mark on clutch body & shaft to determine if clutch is slipping.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Just for clarification this is a Megawide pickup?


Good point. If Flacer22 stated his baler has Mega-wide pickup I overlooked that fact.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Jim

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the starter roller turn the sprockets and chain that drives the slip clutch that drives the rotor which then drives the pickup. So when the pickup slip clutch slips the rotor and the pickup both stop turning??


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Flacer22
> 
> Does your baler not have the RPM sensor on pickup clutch that rajela mentioned? You should be able to determine if pickup teeth are slowing/stopping without spending $495 for clutch. You could also place a marks-a-lot mark on clutch body & shaft to determine if clutch is slipping.


Jim

He stated that he has the BALE TRAK PRO Monitor and it screams an alarm when it plugs up the pickup but the belts continue to turn which means just the pickup clutch is slipping.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Have you or the techs inspected the rotor and the hole below the rotor really well. I had a stick get below the rotor and wedged underneath one of the rotors and locked up the pick up once I looked everywhere and was about to start tearing apart bearings thinking one had locked up when I looked down in the bottom part of the rotor housing and saw a little stick wedged under one of the rotor fingers. Had a hell of a time getting that SOB out.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

On the left hand side pull back the chain tension and drop the drive chain off the sprockets. This should separate the rotor and the pickup from the rest of the drive line. Then go to the right side and drop the lower cover on the pickup drive chain and remove this chain also. now the rotor and the pickup are separate from each other. Now check and see how well each one turn and if there is any binding or tightness. Also raise the gate and engage the safety latch, now being careful not to pinch you hand with the rotor check that there isn't anything binding it up. From here you can also check the pickup and see that it spins freely. Both should spin very freely since the are now independent of each other.

I am beginning to think that you might have an issue with some bearings or binding in the rotor or pickup.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Jim
> 
> He stated that he has the BALE TRAK PRO Monitor and it screams an alarm when it plugs up the pickup but the belts continue to turn which means just the pickup clutch is slipping.


Thanks for correction as when I read clutch slips & alarm sounds I was thinking pto slip clutch alarm.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Jim

They both have a senor, the pick up clutch and the main PTO. As far as I know if either slips it is the same slip alarm. I just hit the PTO button as soon as it sounds and then looks to see which one it was. The pickup clutch will alarm if I go thru a dip and not raise the pickup but it is just a chirp or 2 and I know that it was the dip.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

It's difficult to believe that pickup slip clutch could be worn out with only 3300 bales on baler but I've witnessed stranger failures.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

Can the pickup slip clutch be tightened or adjusted so it won't slip so easily?


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Jim

That is why I am thinking that the rotor or pickup is binding up.

JMT

Not sure??? I have 12,500 bales on mine and it doesn't slip.

Need to drop number 4 and 5 chains. They are on opposite sides..


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JMT said:


> Can the pickup slip clutch be tightened or adjusted so it won't slip so easily?


Weld it solid BUT I don't advise doing that.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

The pickup slip clutch attached to the starter roller


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I have over 22,000 bales on my current 467 with the original pickup slip clutch. Some baler owners that I've visited on service calls must think pickup teeth are utilized as soil levelers because they operate with them digging in the soil.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> The pickup slip clutch attached to the starter roller


I guess I need to trade my 467 in on a 469 to get those fancy sensors. I THINK NOT SO!!!!!!!!!


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

You could go aftermarket and save a few dollars.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AE56776-Baler-Pickup-Slip-Clutch-for-JOHN-DEERE-448-449-458-558-468-568-469-569-/381305837590?hash=item58c7995816:g:qAoAAOSwMmBVifOi


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

On my 568 it slips very infrequently. Maybe five to ten times a season. Always something that causes it though (big wad, ground contact, rock picked up and binds in pickup, etc.). A lot of times the pickup will clear itself when I idle down after alarm goes off and before I can shut pto off. Or sometimes if I shut pto off and then restart it will pull it in. Operating hydraulic pickup up and down sometimes helps to.

If mine plugs and slips and I cannot get it to clear itself it is usually very easy to pull out by hand though (dumping bale not needed). If the OPs pickup is plugging really tight, it sounds like the pickup slip clutch is holding and doing its job once the plug happens.

Does the baler have the adjustable tongue? Maybe position of baler is not correct with drawback height?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JMT said:


> Does the baler have the adjustable tongue? Maybe position of baler is not correct with drawback height?


If all else failed I would change rubber tire axle settings to lower/raise baler. I firmly believe this 459 could be adjusted so it will bale hay.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Me too Jim never seen one that wouldn't. Would be nice to actually see the baler. Some pics of it setting on good level ground would be nice. If the rotor and pic up turns freely then it has to be either in the setup or the clutch.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

I agree. JD Tech saying that ground is just to rough for it is bs.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

JMT said:


> I agree. JD Tech saying that ground is just to rough for it is bs.


If it isn't setup right the rough ground could cause some issues but the tech should have checked the draw bar height and axle height to make sure pickup angle is correct.

If he can run 4mph across it then it ain't to damn rough. I have baled some before that 4mph would throw you out of the seat.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

rajela said:


> If it isn't setup right the rough ground could cause some issues but the tech should have checked the draw bar height and axle height to make sure pickup angle is correct.


But didn't Flacer say he actually changed tractor tire size already to achieve the correct angles?

Btw, my question earlier about finding a neighbor with flat round was more to prove the tech wrong than to actually learn anything.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

> In dry hay 8 to 12 percent it rearly plugs up until over 4mph then it will plug sometimes . In wetter hay such as 15 to 25 it plugs much over 3mph and any thick spots in Windows will plug it. Hay 30 and up it really won't bale at all unless windrows are very light.


HiTech

I went back and read where he did change tires to get he draw bar height correct but that was all. I also saw where he is baling some awful wet stuff. He is talking about 15% and up on moisture which could be part of his issue.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

It would be nice if a chat with the previous owners from the dairy could be had. Maybe they had the same issues and traded it with the low bale count.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Just a dumb though I had while out tedding this afternoon.

I did not notice it anywhere in this thread, but I'm going to question what is a light and a heavy window. If he could post how long it takes to bale one complete bale (with no plugging), it would give everyone an idea of how fast he is feeding the baler.

I bale from 5-10 mph, depending upon the volume in the windrow (the word light and heavy can sometimes be hard to quantify, just like a little or a lot of ice cream to a kid can be hard to quantify).

I can plug my NH if I push it fast enough, but I can also clean it out without dumping the bale (thanks to old fashion hay hook help, that I carry in the cab for some reason, maybe it is the dumb operator in my case) as JMT mentions, why does the bale need to be dumped?

If you guys already know the volume of material that is being force down this balers mouth, maybe it is just a lemon with green paint,  (forgive me,TxJim, I am not picking on your favorite color must be 'heat stroke' again).

Congrads, to you guys for not giving up yet.

Larry


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

r82230

Windrow size and amount of green hay in windrow has been asked but no response. I would like to see a few pics of the windrow so i can get an idea of what he is trying to feed it also. He stated that it is 2 ton to the acre and he is raking 22ft swath so it should eat it like a fat kid in a candy store but then he talks about 30% moisture also. I would also like to see how it is raked. Is it one huge rolled up windrow with lumps and clumps of hay or is it a 60 " wide nice even consistent windrow that looks like 2 Twinkies laying by each other.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

r82230 said:


> If he could post how long it takes to bale one complete bale (with no plugging), it would give everyone an idea of how fast he is feeding the baler.
> 
> If you guys already know the volume of material that is being force down this balers mouth, maybe it is just a lemon with green paint,  (forgive me,TxJim, I am not picking on your favorite color must be 'heat stroke' again).
> 
> Larry


Larry

Just remember I "PICK BACK" :lol:

You did bring up a good point but even in 6 bale(3 tons) to the acre hay I never slow down to OP's 2 MPH. I rake 3 nine ft swathes of 4 bale to the acre and bale that at 6 MPH. Only reason I don't travel faster is rough fields due to gophers & fire ant mounds

Jim


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> Larry
> Just remember I "PICK BACK" :lol:
> 
> You did bring up a good point but even in 6 bale(3 tons) to the acre hay I never slow down to OP's 2 MPH. I rake 3 nine ft swathes of 4 bale to the acre and bale that at 6 MPH. Only reason I don't travel faster is rough fields due to gophers & fire ant mounds.


You can keep your gophers & fire ants, however I will trade you a few woodchucks and ground moles for some of the excess rain you appear to be getting.

My supposedly thunderstorms last night must of been like 52 small drops per square foot total (I might have messed up counting, because I was spitting a slightly used sunflower hull out at same time). My rain gauge measures in hundredths of an inch and it stayed stuck on zero, the few drops I got, evaporated before it could run down the gauge to be measured.

At least I wasn't completely off base on the volume. Yea, whether it is 1 ton to the acre or 4 tons, what is the volume can be important. Doesn't matter what color or even if it is a combine, there has to be something that gives at it's capacity.

Now that rajela spoke of Twinkies, I am hungry, better close the office for the day and go check to see what my better half has made to help fatten me up like a steer for the State fair.

Larry


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

The more I follow this the more I believe it is crop conditions.

You can't beat John Deere balers in dry hay but I have not heard anything good about them in wet hay


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

If it was the crop then the Deere tech should have noticed that. Then again the mechanic may not know hay.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> If it was the crop then the Deere tech should have noticed that. Then again the mechanic may not know hay.


This quote is from the OPs post. The tech did notice a lot of wet hay.



> Techs conclusion was my ground is so steep hilly and uneven that wet spots combinded with bad terrain are why it's pluggig up at any real speeds.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The Tech lost some credibility with me when he blamed the steepness and terrain, unless the terrain caused the wet spots.

If the hay is truly wet then that could well be the cause. If there is an occasional damp spot then I am not so sure.

Going slow may be the only solution.

I still believe contacting the dairy that sold the baler would shed some light on this. Find out if the baler worked well or they had some of the same problems.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I know this could be a stretch but here goes. I had a problem with plugging on a NH 644. As it turned out the bearings on th pick up spider were worn out and the pickup teeth were not pushing the hay far enough back for the feeder teeth to grab it. I had one heck of a time with sporadic plugging. Changed those bearings and it was like having a new baler. If that baler has been baling corn stalks the excess dirt may have prematurely worn out those bearings.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

The bearings I'm speaking of are #22

http://jdpc.deere.com/pimages/0002/thumbs/0002349130____________A1.png


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## Fireman355 (Aug 15, 2013)

I have been reading this and now I think he is having the same problem as I do, I have a new JD 459 standard, I will make a very nice tight bale, however the window you have to bale in is to small, I can bale from 15 - 18 percent moisture, any more or any less it will plug,

the deere dealer ship are not very good at anything except selling things, their answer is the hay was not ready, I can start to roll and it will plug pull over it over to the side, hook up to a New Holland 565, that's right a little 565 that is 30 years old and make some of the best looking squares around.

, I have been baling hay a long time and used several different kinds and makes, this is the worst I have seen, so the answer I have figured out by talking to others who run deeres around here is to add the"wet kit" to it, that is another 1500.00 $ installed. that should open up my window a little bit.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Any chance the windrow is bunching under the tractor a little and aggravating any pickup issues?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Troy Farmer said:


> I know this could be a stretch but here goes. I had a problem with plugging on a NH 644. As it turned out the bearings on th pick up spider were worn out and the pickup teeth were not pushing the hay far enough back for the feeder teeth to grab it. I had one heck of a time with sporadic plugging. Changed those bearings and it was like having a new baler. If that baler has been baling corn stalks the excess dirt may have prematurely worn out those bearings.


With only 3300 bales on baler I seriously doubt the pickup shaft brgs are worn much. I put nearly 10 times that amount of bales on a 467 that still had original pickup shaft brgs.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Fireman355 said:


> I have been reading this and now I think he is having the same problem as I do, I have a new JD 459 standard, I will make a very nice tight bale, however the window you have to bale in is to small, I can bale from 15 - 18 percent moisture, any more or any less it will plug,
> 
> the deere dealer ship are not very good at anything except selling things, their answer is the hay was not ready, I can start to roll and it will plug pull over it over to the side, hook up to a New Holland 565, that's right a little 565 that is 30 years old and make some of the best looking squares around.


You'll have to admit that baling with sq baler vs rd baler is very similar to comparing apples to oranges. I personally don't like JD's wet hay kit that I've seen on earlier models but maybe later models are different.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Replace the slip clutch on the pickup.

I'd guess previous owner slipped the heck out of it and ruined it,so his answer was to trade it


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> Replace the slip clutch on the pickup.
> 
> I'd guess previous owner slipped the heck out of it and ruined it,so his answer was to trade it


If pu slip clutch is slipping then why isn't pu speed sensor making noise?


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

And if the pu clutch is slipping (when it shouldn't), how is the pickup jamming so much hay into a plug that it can't be cleared without dumping the bale?

I am guessing that the pu clutch is operating as it should and there is some other reason hay is not being fed to the roll.

May need some more specifics about where the plug is occurring. Is it between pu tines and compression rack? Or is it wrapping around converging augers, or where, specifically.

Other thoughts coming to mind are condition of compression rack tines. Maybe the previous owners removed them to bale stalks?

How about the variable core and bale density settings, could they be set so tight that pickup has trouble le feeding hay to roll? When do plugs usually occur... starting bale? During bale formation? Or near full?

My experience with my 568 is that it has been very forgiving with moisture levels. Had to bale off a couple of wet ruined fields before and it handled that fine. Definitely not a small moisture window for proper baling. Maybe the "9" series are more picky?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JMT
OP stated this baler had the variable core option which if I was have plugging problems I'd make the cores softer IE less core pressure.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> If pu slip clutch is slipping then why isn't pu speed sensor making noise?





> Also when I ay its plugged the feed is plugged the belts pto and such stay working just the pick up plugs up. I have mid bale gotten it to start again but almost impossible to unplug it with half bale still.in there.


Well I presumed by his description ^^^ that the pickup was plugged and the teeth had quite turning also,but after rereading it I guess he really doesnt say if the pickup teeth are turning or not just that its plugged.

Sensor could be bad also,who knows pretty hard to say without being there.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Flacer22 said:


> Well I ended up spending 3 hours last night with a Deere tech again. He rode and I drove entire time he was not really willing to drive I guess.
> 
> That said it plugged almost instantly. Tech was bit moisturise to say least. Hay was very heavy and somewhat damp on bottom. We got it un plugged and he went though and tightend every chain on it to ensure nothing slipping.
> 
> ...


Okay, I don't have experience with the Deere balers, but here's something that I've had happen with my Ford 552. I've had the pickup occasionally "lock up" and cause a plug-up, and when I roll the baler backwards with the wrench and unplug it, and get it going again, everything appear normal. Then go back to baling, and have it happen again, and again.

My baler doesn't use a slip clutch- the pickup is belt driven off a floor roll and the belt acts as a slip clutch. I thought it was plugging up due to excess hay or excess speed, and tried slowing down, smaller windrows, etc.

I found out after some more investigating that I had some bad cam follower bearings and they were allowing the tine bars to get far enough out of line to "lock up" the pickup during baling every so often. When running it empty at the shop, the bars were "unloaded" and the cam followers could "bump" the bars straight enough to go around the cam track without binding. During baling, with tine bars picking up hay and the extra load putting torque on the tine bars and pressing the cam bearings snug against the cam track as it rotates under load, every so often one of these cam bearings would hit just right and "lock up" the pickup, which of course causes an instant plug-up.

If I were you, I'd go over every square inch of the pickup, turn it by hand, inspect all the bearings and cam tracks, cam followers and their bearings, look for ANYTHING that could be loose or could cause binding or an intermittent lock-up that would cause an instant plug up and pop the clutch loose. Could be bad cam followers, bad bearings, something bent or loose or broken that periodically gets in the way of rotating parts and under load picking up hay or vibrating during field operation, can't really be seen or isn't obvious, and which doesn't happen when testing it at the shop or sitting in the field.

I replaced all my cam follower bearings and that solved my problems. It's probably something similar happening on yours, would be my first best guess.

Good luck! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I have over 22,000 bales on my current 467 with the original pickup slip clutch. Some baler owners that I've visited on service calls must think pickup teeth are utilized as soil levelers because they operate with them digging in the soil.


Yeah, rakes aren't meant to be used as plows but I see that as well.

Some people ain't too bright.

Later! OL J R


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## 20156point7 (Apr 7, 2015)

Fireman355 said:


> I have been reading this and now I think he is having the same problem as I do, I have a new JD 459 standard, I will make a very nice tight bale, however the window you have to bale in is to small, I can bale from 15 - 18 percent moisture, any more or any less it will plug,
> 
> the deere dealer ship are not very good at anything except selling things, their answer is the hay was not ready, I can start to roll and it will plug pull over it over to the side, hook up to a New Holland 565, that's right a little 565 that is 30 years old and make some of the best looking squares around.
> 
> , I have been baling hay a long time and used several different kinds and makes, this is the worst I have seen, so the answer I have figured out by talking to others who run deeres around here is to add the"wet kit" to it, that is another 1500.00 $ installed. that should open up my window a little bit.


I had the same exact problems out of my 459 standard for 2 years until trading it in on a 459ss. That solved my problem


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## Fireman355 (Aug 15, 2013)

20156point7 said:


> I had the same exact problems out of my 459 standard for 2 years until trading it in on a 459ss. That solved my problem


I am thinking the same thing. except go new holland....................


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Fireman355 said:


> I am thinking the same thing. except go new holland....................


He was trying to get rid of a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

From what I've read about failures of NH sledge rollers/brgs I think all NH rd balers are not trouble free.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

A machine has not been invented yet that is trouble free. I don't know where you get the impression the sledge rolls are troublesome. On the early models, before the BR series, there was some wear issues with the bottom roll gear and first idler. Since the BR balers were introduced in 2003 I have yet to replace a gear because of wear. Bearing failures of the sledge rolls are extremely rare and I would bet a cold one that, in our area, there are more Deere roll shaft failures than there are sledge roll failures in the NH balers. You probably do not see that many Deere roll failures in your area, but up here where there is a lot of silage hay made Deere has a problem. Now the majority of the balers in this area are 5 x 6 balers, so it may only apply to the larger Deere balers. That does not make the Deere baler a bad choice for a buyer, but as I said before, there is not a perfect machine.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mike

You're correct there's not a lot of silage bales made down here. The few I've seen were made by a McHale baler. I look for that to change as the weather seems to get crazier every year. I haven't witnessed any roll shaft failures. I'm not a fan of JD's rd baler ''wet hay kit" for dry hay balers but I know very little about their SS model balers. Only info I have on NH rd balers is what I've read on the internet and I've seen sledge rollers/brgs failures mentioned several times . I also agree all brands of machinery can fail. There are very few 5X6 balers sold new or used in my area or NH rd balers either.

Jim.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It is not that the farmers want to make silage bales, but our weather for making hay in late April or May the past few years has not been good. I cringe every time I take a new baler out and start in that stuff. It is not the ability of the baler I am concerned about but the operators ability to operate it correctly to avoid problems. I even have novices that want to bale that stuff. I encourage them to start in dry hay to learn how to operate the baler correctly and then go to wet if that is what they want. Wet hay is a bit of a misnomer since it varies so much in moisture content. Some of the hay is next to dry and others operators are just about following the mower. It is hard to break a customer of bad driving habits and the operators manual is not much better.

I have not looked at one recently but the way NH had recommended starting a bale will guarantee belt problems in wet hay. You need to do a quick weave when starting a bale to get hay under all the belts as soon as possible. The wet hay will not compress so it starts forcing the takeup arm back almost immediately causing the belts without hay under them to become loose and start walking. Once the core is started you really have to drive badly to get the belts to move much. Once an operator has to untwist a belt he pays better attention. Five foot wide balers are not silage special balers but they will bale the stuff. You need to keep the pressure down and the bale size down. Most tube wrappers will only handle a max of 60". I tell them to keep it in the 54 - 56" if it is wet. Any bigger and the equipment handling the stuff will have problems because of the weight. Had one guy try it a couple of years ago and he broke two bale spears and his wagon just moving the bales to the wrapper.

As one customer said about silage hay. It smells like hell but it is cow cocain.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mike

Can one not rake a good,large windrow similar to dry hay for silage hay so weaving isn't necessary or is the hay just too wet to rake? I know exactly what you mean about trying to instruct new baler owners on how to operate a rd baler from my memories of delivering new/used balers when I was employed by a dealer. Have you baled any "sweet hay"? It amazes me horse owners will feed sweet hay to their horses. What exactly is the task of a sledge roller? I think the large roller in the bottom of NH baler to support bale is a good idea.

Jim


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Most of the early hay is shorter than fully matured crop and alot of the early stuff is wheat so the windrows while heavy generally do not fill the five foot balers pickups. I think it works better without filling the pickup. Maybe a rotary rake might make a good enough windrow, but with bar rakes and wheel rakes you have too much of a tendency to flip material out past the ends of the pickup, which will give you fits in wet hay by lodging in the corners. Just like crossing into a big windrow with no bale in the baler to help pull the material there is an increase chance of hairpinning in the corners of the pickup.

What is sweet hay?

The sledge rolls form the cavity for the bale to start rotating. It is the same job that the belts in other balers do but instead of belts running across other rollers, you have the sledge rolls. The other advantage is you can feed the net from the front of the baler with a positive insertion of the net into the bale since the duckbill goes between two of the rollers. In the last year or two there was a youtube video on this site which showed a JD baler with rolls up front and front mounted net. I think it is used in Europe maybe. I think it also had a high speed tailgate to eject the baler faster which is a time saver.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sweet hay is baled at about 25% moisture & then wrapped similar to silage. I think the JD rd balers with net in frt are the models F440E, F450E or maybe 960


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

We've seen some round bales that were baled a tad wet and it caramelized we call it, smells slightly silagey, I guess it would be sweet hay. Cows love the stuff.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Grateful11 said:


> We've seen some round bales that were baled a tad wet and it caramelized we call it, smells slightly silagey, I guess it would be sweet hay. Cows love the stuff.


Sweet hay is wrapped.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> In the last year or two there was a youtube video on this site which showed a JD baler with rolls up front and front mounted net. I think it is used in Europe maybe.


900 series Deere round baler. I think they've just started selling them in NA. The front portion of the bale chamber resembles NH somewhat, more so resembles Kuhn.

I have not had sledge problems on my oldest NH BR, close to 17,000 bales on it, about 85% of that was cornstalks. Sledge gears are getting pretty worn though.


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## timberjackrob (Feb 16, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> Mike
> Can one not rake a good,large windrow similar to dry hay for silage hay so weaving isn't necessary or is the hay just too wet to rake? I know exactly what you mean about trying to instruct new baler owners on how to operate a rd baler from my memories of delivering new/used balers when I was employed by a dealer. Have you baled any "sweet hay"? It amazes me horse owners will feed sweet hay to their horses. What exactly is the task of a sledge roller? I think the large roller in the bottom of NH baler to support bale is a good idea.
> Jim


we bale just as big a windrow in wet hay as we do dry just drive a little slower never seen what the big deal was about weaving was tho its just turning a steering wheel not really that hard.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Same issues with my 459 on the head plugging issue. If you look at the thread caseih and 1586 new toy you will see all the fun we had with it. When it went to the shop for warranty issues, I had the tech go completely through the baler and set everything to factory spec and there were adjustments he made to the head. I can't find the invoice at this time to see what they did. As regards to the tech not knowing hay, when he was out this year trying to solve the tension issues he stayed with the baler for over 5 hours. Said that was the most time he has spent with a baler in the field. Everything he learned I guess came from baling school he went to, no world experience. Hard to explain issues to someone that does not have experience in the field he works in. From what I see on this thread it seems that 459's might be set differently from factory than the older series balers and it is up to us to set them properly. I'm still not completely happy with the way mine eats hay compared to the 458 I have and will go completely through it at some point.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

Been super busy broken Equitment havnt had time to go back to this yet but I did get a bill for 600 bucks from dealer for services of telling me it was operator error! Lol gonna try and toss few pictures of my hay and conditions so you guys can get an idea of what I've got. I've got no neighbors that are really willing to let me bale hay on them even for comparison's sake. Least not at this time.

I've not played much with mounting height of baler since I went from 34 to 38s on tractor either


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