# square bale accumulator and grapple, or a grapalator



## Marshall

Here is my story and a question. I grew up in a farming family in central GA. As the kids grew up, the three boys worked the row crops, hogs, cows, and of course worked the square bales for the cows feed during the months there was not enough grazing.

All the boys grew up and each of us moved away to pursue our different careers. I have retired and have moved back to the farm where my 72 year old father still has about 85 brood cows and cuts around 165 acres of alecia bermuda hay. We current round bale everything. When I was a kid, we square baled everything back then, of course not as much as now, because we never sold hay back then as we do now.

I am considering buying an old New Holland square baler and starting to try some square baling again. I am in no shape to load, unload, and stack by hand as we did back in the late 70s and early 80s. I am thinking about getting a W.R.Long Grapalator.

Can I get some opinions on what you folks have and are using now and opinions on what would suit my situation best. We dont have a skid steer, We have a JD 4030, A JD 4230 with a front loader on it and will be getting a new JD 5085M withing a month.

Of course we already have the equipment for the round bales, Kuhn 9' disc mower, tedder, rake, and a JD round baler.

Main question here, should I get an accumulator, (drag or table) and a grapple.

Or, should / could I operate well with a W.R. Long Grapalator?

The JD 5085M will have a front loader on it that would accept the grapple, or grapalator.

Thanks for the replies and information.

Marshall


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## bunchgrass1

Hey Marshall,

Here's my 2 cents (about all it's worth) on the grapple idea. I have an old Farmhand brand (can't tell it's pretty worn) that saved my tail this year when my haying crew was a no show and rain was on its way that evening. I didn't have my bales bunched so ended up dragging by hand into groups of 8 and loaded my flatbed trailer a few times. The rest that I couldn't get to quick enough went into small stacks in the field. The stuff I moved with the grapple was the only good hay I got in this year.

That said - here's what I saw as potential issues.

My grapple does not have a rotating option so all bales in your stack face the same way - not real stable if puttting up grass. By having the option of turning each layer 90 degrees it would make things way more stable.

Height your loader can reach will limit stack height.

Check to see what optimal bale length is for the grapple (and accumulator).

Need a 3rd remote or valve to operate.

WAY EASIER ON ME!

Note: I do have an old Farmhand accumulator that runs off a PTO driven pump but since I was having trouble making bales consistently this year, I didn't even try it.

The newer accumulators look like they work better than what I've got. They have bigger tires for easier travel in the field. Some guys have said that pulling the accumulator attached to the rear of your baler "beats the baler up" (don't know what they mean). You might ask how the accumulator you're looking at attaches to the baler as well as its power source. Wished I had a nice one - just a little expensive.

I don't know how the grappalator works but it looks like a grapple that you use to sort of push bales around into your bunches and then pickup. If that's the case, I'd be a little concerned about pushing bales around in my fields w/o tearing them up - we have a lot of orchard grass that's pretty bunchy.

Good luck.


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## barry5

I built my own accumalator but did purcase the long grappel, all I put up is grass hay and so far after only a thousand bales or so i am sold on it, I to thought pushing bales through the field would not be good but I see no damage to them, part of the key on grass is to keep your bales as tight and even as possible. I have tractors and a skid loader, it does not seem to be any difference on using the grappel but I do prefer to run the accumalator on the skidder, this is only because of better visabality.We load in the field and then go to the barn and reverse the procedure, I reverse my tie bales in the barn and the stacks are very stable, with the skidder I can only go 9 tiers high but with the tractor I can go 12.


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## okhillbilly

Hi Marshall . I to have an accumulator (Farmhand). It's old but does a good job. Since I have gotten it it's hasn't been unhooked from the baler. In my opinion the table is the way to go if you have any unlevel ground to travel on. You can also take a load of hay to the barn if you choose to when finishing a field close to the barn. I wouln't try to drag hay across 20 acres . If I was looking at a newer machine I would look for a 10 tie accumulator. The 10 tie loads trailers without any hand stacking. Just my opinoin.


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## bunchgrass1

OKhillbilly,

What does your Farmhand accumulator use for power? Does it have a "roller pump" that runs of the tractor PTO? Also, I'd be interested to hear how your accumulator attaches to your baler. Mine has an adjustable arm/bracket on the side opposite the bale chamber and then a trailer type hitch about midway across the front of the accumulator. I welded a couple of pieces of iron onto the baler frame to attach the arms to. Never have run it though.

BTW - it's an 8 bale accumulator. Lots of guys that are putting up sm. squares here use those hay slips or sleds that drag behind your baler w/ a rope trip gate on the back end to at least leave bales in clusters for collecting.


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## kfarm_EC_IL

[/QUOTE]BTW - it's an 8 bale accumulator. Lots of guys that are putting up sm. squares here use those hay slips or sleds that drag behind your baler w/ a rope trip gate on the back end to at least leave bales in clusters for collecting.[/QUOTE]

Can you explain what a sled would look like? I had an old timer the other day say they would drag a sled and a guy would stand on it and stack bales then push off 8 at a time. this was back when they used to hand tie.
Thanks
Mark


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## okhillbilly

(bunchgrass1) The farmhand I have uses a gear type pto pump. WW Graingers sells a Prince brand pump. Priced around $500.00 in there book. Also they are online. Mine came with the machine when I bought it. I think the flow rate is around 11 gallon per minute. Open center hydralic system. You have to use a pto shaft extension. The one I got it at Tractor Supply. I shortened mine a couple of inches and ground a new lock ring in it with a die grinder. The pump is mounted solid to the rear of your tractor below the pto shaft. Its lasted 3 years so far. I had to extend the drawbar so the pivot point was in the right place. I think you can run it off a larger tractor with the remotes if it is open center and has enough flow. Mine tractor is a closed center system. I have heard of mounting on the baler and using a belt drive pump. But everything I read said it didn't work as well as the pto drive (belt slippage, larger variable in speed ).

The shute side has a bracket with a pin in it for hooking to a hitch. I removed the bale extension and I built my hitch using the old bolt holes. I ran a piece of square tubing to the axle also on my hitch. Basicly it bolts to three places. I used an old ball hitch from a car and turned it sideways. This way you can move it up and down inside the bracket on the accumulator for alignment. The other side I built a solid bar that pivots on each end. Just set up the accumulator as square as possible to the baler. The accumulator has to pivot up and down when going over humps or terraces. And swing behind when turning.

Also It is an 8 bale deck. Thats all I have seen for the older Farmhand. I don't know if they made any different. I like the Steffens 10 bale accumulator. If I was going to buy a newer one. I'd also have to get a 10 bale grapple. Just my opinon. I haven't been around one. But they work alot like the Farmhand. Maybe a few more switches. There was a guy west of Edmond,Ok that had one but acted putout when I asked if he'd show it to me so I never got a look at his.

I


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## okhillbilly

(bunchgrass1) The farmhand I have uses a gear type pto pump. WW Graingers sells a Prince brand pump. Priced around $500.00 in there book. Also they are online. Mine came with the machine when I bought it. I think the flow rate is around 11 gallon per minute. Open center hydralic system. You have to use a pto shaft extension. The one I got it at Tractor Supply. I shortened mine a couple of inches and ground a new lock ring in it with a die grinder. The pump is mounted solid to the rear of your tractor below the pto shaft. Its lasted 3 years so far. I had to extend the drawbar so the pivot point was in the right place. I think you can run it off a larger tractor with the remotes if it is open center and has enough flow. Mine tractor is a closed center system. I have heard of mounting on the baler and using a belt drive pump. But everything I read said it didn't work as well as the pto drive (belt slippage, larger variable in speed ).

The shute side has a bracket with a pin in it for hooking to a hitch. I removed the bale extension and I built my hitch using the old bolt holes. I ran a piece of square tubing to the axle also on my hitch. Basicly it bolts to three places. I used an old ball hitch from a car and turned it sideways. This way you can move it up and down inside the bracket on the accumulator for alignment. The other side I built a solid bar that pivots on each end. Just set up the accumulator as square as possible to the baler. The accumulator has to pivot up and down when going over humps or terraces. And swing behind when turning.

Also It is an 8 bale deck. Thats all I have seen for the older Farmhand. I don't know if they made any different. I like the Steffens 10 bale accumulator. If I was going to buy a newer one. I'd also have to get a 10 bale grapple. Just my opinon. I haven't been around one. But they work alot like the Farmhand. Maybe a few more switches. There was a guy west of Edmond,Ok that had one but acted putout when I asked if he'd show it to me so I never got a look at his.

I


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## bunchgrass1

Thanks okhillbilly! Does your accumulator have the small (8-10" dia) crazy wheels on it? It seems it would be a nicer to have the wheels a bit larger.

My accumulator runs off of a "roller style" pump that attaches directly to the PTO - then has a stub out for the baler PTO shaft to attach to. Hoses run from the pump to the oil reservoir on the accumulator and back. Those things present a challenge in routing since the baler is between the tractor and accumulator. Every year I swear I'll get that thing working with my setup but then .... It really is a problem if you can't make bales consistently - in other words missed knots. In fact, that is why I had questions about SP vs PB swathers and windrow "evenness". Until I can make bales regularly, then I can't use the accumulator.

Thanks again for your comments!!


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## okhillbilly

(Bunchgrass1) My accumulator has the single 8 inch wheel that swivel. The parts or spare one I have has the duel swivel wheels. I've only had to replace one tire so far. "knock on wood" I got the tire off an old Snapper Riding mower and tubes at a tire store. You really need to get it working. They're a time saver and a half even hand loading a trailer in the field. Just putting the bales together really helps out.

My pump is defenitly a gear pump. Blew a hose and ran the entire system dry. Took the pump apart and filled it with lube to get it to prime.

They are a pain in the neck when you are breaking bales. It hard to catch it sometimes until you break several and they drop off into the field and you spot them. Its hard to see the accumulator from a low tractor like my New Holland's.


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## Marshall

The reason for going back into square bales along with the round bales is to broaden our hay market. You make more profit on the square bales for sure and at this time, my father has the round bale market and I have the work associated with it. I have 30 acres of hay and unless pop buys what I make, it sits under the barn.

A livestock feed out lot down the road stated that they would by all the square bales I produced so it got me to thinking. How best could I do this with a one man show for handling the hay. Pop will help get it baled of course, but that is where the help would end.

Marshall


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## okhillbilly

Sorry for getting off track with your post. Check these guys out. They will send a dvd to your house. Bale Accumulator Options | Steffen Systems Also checkout Kuhns Mfg Home Page . They build a manual accumulator with no hydralics or electrical hookups. They also will send a dvd to you. I talk to them a couple of years back and they tried to get me hooked up with a guy with the Kuhns to observe.


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## downtownjr

Another to check out is the Bale Caddie for a table system. I looked at all of them and although the Kuhn is non mechanical, I think the table is better for all the travel I am doing to custom bale. I have talked to Hoelsher, Steffen, and Kuhn for trailing accumulators. I finally decided on the Bale Caddie for my purchase this fall for next year's baling. I can easily take it down the road to other fields...I have some rental ground 80 miles apart...since I have ground near where I reside and near the in-laws. The bale caddie engineer visits the site on a regular basis. Maybe he can answer some of your questions.

If you want are considering a front loading system there are some folks on the site that manufacture them and can answer your questions on that type as well.


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## kfarm_EC_IL

I just built a thing that works kind of like the bale sweep for our loader tractor. Worked ok the first time out. The reason I started with this type was to get a handle on "what" problem I needed to tackle first putting up squares by myself mechanicly.

As I still know very little I will add the tid bits that I have taken in this last week. Now that I have got a way to load I now need the correct / matching wagons or trailers. I'm loading 8 at a time on 4 different types and sizes of wagons and a trailer. Now currently I'm still unloading by hand. Which also means I'm reloading (sales) by hand. That is not so bad in small batches this winter. But If I was to expand I think it would to wise long term to use a grapple reload/unload. This presents the problem of storage facilities for me. Again currently I'm using the barn, but I do have an open shed that would house the same number. However some work would have to be performed to bring it up to hay usible condition. One thing that I continue to wonder in all of this is manveuriblity. We have lots of patches. Even the custom portion of the business is odd shaped patches. Some are hilly etc. Which version for me is going to be the best here. And that led me to the gizzmo I built.

For our operation and everyone's is unique, I could see sinking alot of money into a system that worked for some situations. Here's the thing nothing will work a hundred percent on the time, I'm shooting for the 80/20 thing. Haven't found it yet.

Not sure if that is helpful to anyone, but that is how I was looking at it.

Mark K


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## okhillbilly

The only thing I see with the sweep is you still have to hand stack a row down the side of a trailer to get a full load. Which is what we do using the 8 bale Farmhand. One person loader stays with the trailer and stacks. If you could extend the front enough to pickup the last 2 bales sideways to make a stack you could "tie" when loading and eliminate this person.


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## bunchgrass1

Hi kfarm,

Sorry, I missed your comment/question earlier.

The slips I'm talking about look like the frame from a sandrail dune buggy - just tubing frame 1-2' high and 10' long. The front is curved up like a ski tip so it doesn't dig into the ground and the back end has and arch w/ a trip gate you can release when the slip is full. The bottom is not solid but actually is a series of 1/2" rods running from front to back about 8" apart. That's how the bales can be left behind - when you trip the gate, the friction between the bales and the ground pulls them out of the slip - the gate then slams closed as you pull away from the bale pile - not a neat 8 pack or anything - just a pile. Very low tech. There are a few folks that use something that pulls behind the baler and makes pyramid stacks of 5 or 6 bales - better for shedding rain. These things look pretty old but do seem to work.

I too have heard of guys riding sleds and stacking - no hand tying - it sure seemed pretty unsafe to me as our slip was kind of herky jerky and one slip and your ankle is toast.


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## chief-fan

All the accumulators have there disadvantages in one way or another. I just finished my first season with an older Farmhand accumulator & grapple. Her is SW Iowa we a lot of smaller odd shaped pieces along with terraces. The first thing I learned is that the ground speed has to match the table unload speed or you will get the bales strung out or pushed up in the air. There is a speed adjustment on the table but I have it slowed to the max and still need to drive faster when the table unloads. I also learned that the slope of the ground will play havock with keeping bales on the accumulator lined up. Had to go to stronger springs to put more tension on the bales from the hold downs. I use the pump mounted on the baler. Tractor hydraulics are to thin to get the speed required to move the bales over fast enough to clear the next bale. To solve this I wne with 30 weight hydraulic oil as I was told by a former operator. That helped a bunch. If you want to learn to drive a perfectly straight line, get an accumulator. Don't take much turn on the steerning wheel to scatter the bales. Due to the terraces and ground conditions I stack 4 high on the rack, strap it down on both sides and set another 8 bales on top. I have gone 5 high + one on top but that is really pushing it. I don't care for the accumulators that drag the balea around on the ground to get them together in a pile of 8 or 10. We also have rocks and dragging the strings around on the round could easily tear a string or weaken it enough to break a bale. It also drags a lot of leaves off and that is what I am trying to keep intact.


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## sedurbin

I use a Haymaster 8 bale drag type accumulator and grapple. I see very little problems with dragging the bales and I have had very little trouble with the system. I don't pull it behind the baler because of the occasional mis-tied bale. We either accumulate with the grapple tractor or pull it behind a pickup. I keep hearing guys say you loose leaves or break strings or get mud all over your hay, personally I have not seen this as much of a problem and have been using it for four years. I suppose every situation is different. The worst thing I could say about the drag type accum. is that when the hay gets damp, in the evening, sometimes it don't slide very well and then it will roll-up a bale or break it. Nothing works perfect, except maybe me. ;-)


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## RFHay

We picked up a Steffens 10 bale accumulator (No tie) this year. It runs off the tractor hydraulics. You need to watch out when making sharp turns. Can be a problem some of our small custom fields, but as long as you keep it in mind, we do ok. there is a switch in the tractor to so i can shut it off when making sharp turns. 
We used to use a 1032 NH bale wagon, but with our NH 570 Baler that makes 14x18" bales, the stacks were very unstable and we wanted to stack on strings. I wouldn't even think of going back to the old system. I can clear a field of 1500 bales in a few hours, instead of a few days. we have 2 tractors the graple fits on so if i have long haul to the stack yard or barn, i put one at each place and haul the graple on top of the hay. 2 straps running the length of the trailer and we have never had a problem with load stability. the only way i'd change would be to go with an inline heston 16x18 and a newer selfpropelled stacker. But for the money invested i woundn't do things any different.


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## kingranchf350

I have been running Hoelscher's for several years now..........................no major problems once you get the adjustments straightened out....if you do go with a Hoelscher....definitely check out G.L. Nause Co., Inc. Structural Steel Fabrication they have a upgrade to the push-over arm that is a must have....with the standard arm we have had trouble with one string being broken when it sits the bales on the bed...this upgrade fixes that problem. I really prefer the table type accumulator over the drag type especially if you are marketing horse hay or if you have uneven ground.


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## Mike120

I finally retired my old NH stacker wagon last year and went to a Hoelscher accumulator and grapple. There is no way I'd ever go back. I can do everything by myself if necessary (although I usually get my daughter to drive the truck/trailer in and out of the field) and I can load and stack faster than I could with the old stacker wagon...it was pretty worn out. I looked at all of the various options and really didn't like the drag type because I'm doing horse hay. I liked the Steffen rotating grapple but I've had no problems with unstable stacks. I thought Steffen was overpriced as well. The other one I really liked was the Kuhn, but the closest dealer was a PITA to deal with. The Hoelscher has a solid hook-up to the baler and I don't even know it's back there.....even when it drops the bundle.

I haven't had any of the string breakage that Kingranchf350 brought up and I bale with sisel, but I'll sure look at the Nause modification. One final point is that if you ever have a question on the Hoelscher, just call them. You usually get the owner, he knows the machine backwards and forwards, and he can talk you through pretty much anything.


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## kingranchf350

I agree with Mike.................if you ever need anything from Hoelscher......all you have to do is call, they have been great to work with. The issue I brought up about string breakage, was with the modified spring loaded pushover arm when it sat the bales up on the table the spring loaded part of the arm would catch under the string and break it as the arm returned down. We tried numerous things to fix it....and Hoelscher may well have taken care of it by now...but that GL Nause upgrade is the bomb diggity (lol)


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## Hedge tree

If the flow valve back by the bale-activated lever will not slow your hydraulic flow sufficiently to allow an even discharge of a pad of bales....than either that valve is bad...or, you need to increase the diameter of your pulley or sproket on the baler-driven pump to decrease the flow. When going from a flywheel driven JD baler set up to a smaller in diameter NH flywheel driven set-up, there was some concern that I would lose flow. However, the JD side-winder flywheel is gear reduced while the NH flywheel is direct PTO drive...so it was a wash. I have had to 'diddle' with pulley size to get the right combo.


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## chief-fan

I too run a Farmhand accumulator but I do NOT use the tractor hydraulics to run the accumulator. I use the Farmhand pump that runs off the baler flywheel. I do this for two reasons. The fluid in your tractor hydraulics gets real thin in hot weather and and then thinner it gets the less pressure and more foaming you have. With the separate pump I run 30 Weight hydraulic oil which runs the accumulator faster, especially the push over cylinder. The second reason is the return line is 1" and by running it back to the pump on the baler it is not restricted going through any couplers, etc at the tractor. By getting the oil away from the accumulator faster the whole machine runs faster and better. A definite must is to keep the bed of the accumulator well coated with a graphite based paint. The slicker the bed is the better the machine will operate. Keep the hold down springs fairly tight to keep the bales together on the bed while baling. I coat the bottom of the two hold downs with graphite paint also so help unload the bales quicker.


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## chief-fan

Question on the Farmhand flow control valve. Is it a by-pass type valve or a restricted type valve? I have mine turned down just to the point of getting belt squeal and it still unloads faster than I would like. Is my valve bad?


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## Haymike56

Just another option. I bought a NH 316 W a 70 Hyd thrower, took the thrower off and mounted the hyd flow valve from the thrower on the baler. I run my holscher that way and it works great, especilly since I put the Nause modification on the push over arm. Now I don't hardly have to get out of the tractor>


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## D.C.Cattle Company

Marshall, I run and old New Holland square baler Model 268. I have a Hoelscher 10 bale accumulator with a grapple mounted on my 4020 with a 585 Buler Allied loader. I do about 2500 squares a year strickly too sell. I bale round bales for my cow heard heard in Illinois. I stack all my hay racks (8) with the bales on their side. I grapple 1/2 stack twice for tie bales on top of load. I then load 8 - 10 bales flat on front of rack to hold the front from rolling. This work great coming from the fields. I sell much of my hay off the racks so I have straps (2) that I run end for end and tighten for long distance travel. Really like this set up


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## country boy

marshall I too had been looking at the w r long grappalator but what they dont tell you is that you cant unload with it into the barn. I ended up finding a rafter m grapple with a sideshift ( 18 inches ) and built a accumulator myself . I run the accumulator on my raking tractor 23hp kubota but its all it wants need to ad water on the rear tires and the grapple on my 85hp kubota . the sideshift is worth its weight in gold in the field or in the barn. my big tractor I bought used and it came with a long brush grapple ( long does make very good products ) with the electric 3rd valve installed. I use it for the grapple and a rear valve for the sideshift. I can load 16 ft lo boy trailers or flat beds all you have to do is jump 4 bales across your 2 tie bales on your 2nd layer on low boys and the same on the top layer with any trailer and two straps across the top and a couple from side to side for good measures, some of my fields are 20 miles from my barn but they ride like they are suppose to all the way there


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## Teslan

I have a self propelled 1089 NH stack wagon, which works great, I can't imagine any other way. In fact I've never experienced any other way then a self propelled stacker. I have a hay fork/grapple that was made locally by a machine shop that works well setting the bales on trailers, semi trailers or whatever. The problem I have is if the buyer doesn't have anyone to arrange the bales on the trailer. I would imagine this would be the problem with any grapple. But with the grapple and with two people that know what they are doing I can load a semi trailer of about 500 bales in an hour and a half or a little less.


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## Will 400m

I was looming at making my own grapolator like the long one just havnt got to it yet. I like the setup and made an accumulator that went on the fromt of my tractor just to see how the bales would hold up. They did just fine and you couldnt tell witch ones were draged and witch ones were stacked off the shute. I can see how it would be dificult to reload from the barn wuth the standard long grapolator but they make one that the sides come off so you can use it as a regular grapple. That sounds less sturdy but more versatile. Thats the war i would build one where the thick skid rails could come off for when your unloading in the barn. The long grapolator also is set up to make a tie stack of tem witch save alot of extra handling and makes a much more stable stack goun down the road.


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