# I may have just dealt with my last horse customer



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people. Most of them are really inconsiderate and dumber than a fence post and the rest of them can't even write a check that won't bounce. 
Last week one writes me a check for $800 and bounces it. I went back to her explaining the check bounced. My bank just mails me the check back but it takes 8 days. Meantime I wrote checks on that check. Then she writes me another check with the wrong company name on it. Are you kidding me? 
Next genius calls me yesterday and we agree on a price for me to deliver 2 loads of round bales (30) to her this Saturday. I load the trailer tonight and strap it all down, then she texts me an hour ago and tells me she needs to wait 2-3 weeks. I'm like WTF kind of way is that to screw a farmer? At least have the balls to call me and tell me you're gonna waste my time and fuel to screw me. 
Then there's the one who calls me Tuesday and we make a deal of $40/bale on 50 bales because he wanted "all natural" hay, which I actually do have 50 bales of. He asks me to call him tonight and I do. He tells me since we talked, he "found same size bales stored inside for $30/ each". I'm like, how does anyone produce and store 4x5 RBs inside for $30/ea. 
All are horse people. Well, damn near all of em can kiss my sweaty ass. I can't take them anymore. 
Cattle and mushroom people, yeah, they're OK. Horse people? He'll with em. 
Sorry for rant. I'm pissed!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol...I never have those kind of problems out of horsey folks....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I must be lucky because I've never had problems like that with horse folks. Most have been real good to deal with but I'm simply not going to deal with customers that are going to complain about the price every time.....I tell them if they don't like it they can hit the road. This is for square bales though. Now that I think about it when I first started out and was doing round bales the horse customers were a pain.....always complaining about price, having to have the hay right the very minute they called, were always broke. I'm thinking the square bale horse customers are a better group to deal with.....if it is top notch hay they aren't afraid to spend the money and seem to be less wishy washy.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

My dad shares your pain. A horse lady owes him $14k going on about 3 years now. Its his own fault. He is old school and believes a persons word. In this case he shouldn't have. This horse lady has probably 100 worthless nags. Used to have a pmu line. when that went bust she just kept all her horses around. No idea why she keeps turning the stud in to them as the colts are worthless. She did send him a few checks the winter that he was sending hay over to her, but I think he was only able to cash one or two for a thousand at a time. He still has the rest of the checks she wrote but told him to wait to cash em. She burned the trucker on the hauling too. No idea where shes been getting her hay from the last few years but always has some in her yard. Come to find out she is boarding horses for other people too. Not a bad deal, don't pay for the hay, feed it to horses your boarding and charge the owners for it. lol This lady inherited something like 1200 acres. Some is rented out and some she sells a little at a time to pay bills and buy hay for horses. She never answers the phone but will return calls and always has the same old story about how she'll settle up for the hay when her colts get sold. Going on three years those colts are getting pretty old. haha. Her latest BS was she called and left a message how she was gonna put a big smile on dads face and pay for the hay as she was selling some land. Well that message was about 5 months ago and Dad is still waiting for that big smile. She also raises dogs, joke around town is she should stop buying dog food and just butcher a horse for the dogs. After about the 4th semi load went over to her that winter and she hadn't paid much I told dad to quit sending her hay till she settled up. But he felt obligated to get hay over to her so she didn't run out. I've given him a lot of shit over this deal. One thing she always loved the hay she got, never complained one bit about the price or anything. Probably cuz she knew she wasn't gonna pay for it anyway.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Some of the most picky people I have sold to are sheep people. Half of the cattle guys don't want to pay anything for the hay. About 2/3 of the horse people are like what you said JD but the other 1/3 are easy to deal with and they want good hay and they are willing to pay good money for it.

But boy you have not seen picky till you seen some of these sheep people


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

hog987 said:


> Some of the most picky people I have sold to are sheep people. Half of the cattle guys don't want to pay anything for the hay. About 2/3 of the horse people are like what you said JD but the other 1/3 are easy to deal with and they want good hay and they are willing to pay good money for it.
> 
> But boy you have not seen picky till you seen some of these sheep people


Does picky mean them want just the right hay or something else? Drove on down to Calgary today, geez that snow flattened out those heavy crops.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't have these kind of problems with horse customers anymore.

Cash only.

No delivery, you want it, you come and get it.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people. Most of them are really inconsiderate and dumber than a fence post and the rest of them can't even write a check that won't boune.
> Last week one writes me a check for $800 and bounces it. I went back to her explaining the check bounced. My bank just mails me the check back but it takes 8 days. Meantime I wrote checks on that check. Then she writes me another check with the wrong company name on it. Are you kidding me?
> Next genius calls me yesterday and we agree on a price for me to deliver 2 loads of round bales (30) to her this Saturday. I load the trailer tonight and strap it all down, then she texts me an hour ago and tells me she needs to wait 2-3 weeks. I'm like WTF kind of way is that to screw a farmer? At least have the balls to call me and tell me you're gonna waste my time and fuel to screw me.
> Then there's the one who calls me Tuesday and we make a deal of $40/bale on 50 bales because he wanted "all natural" hay, which I actually do have 50 bales of. He asks me to call him tonight and I do. He tells me since we talked, he "found same size bales stored inside for $30/ each". I'm like, how does anyone produce and store 4x5 RBs inside for $30/ea.
> ...


I feel your pain....

I always have them make the check to CASH. When I take a check which is only from established customers, all others are COB (collect at barn), I don't deliver unless pre-paid in advance, cash again.

Here in Michigan, a bad check is 'uttering and publishing', a criminal offense.

Getting the money up front eliminates haggling and eliminates issues. I like those good smelling horse gals too, but I like the smell of cash better.

Ain't no 40 dollar a bale (round) hay here, don't care if it's natural or 'man made'. Best you'll get around here (on a 4x4) packed fiddle string tight in net, is 35, which is why I prefer small squares,

I looked at your signature line and I see you have 2 Kubby's, so do I. an M9 and a 105X... I'm color blind too. :lol:


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> I must be lucky because I've never had problems like that with horse folks. Most have been real good to deal with but I'm simply not going to deal with customers that are going to complain about the price every time.....I tell them if they don't like it they can hit the road. This is for square bales though. Now that I think about it when I first started out and was doing round bales the horse customers were a pain.....always complaining about price, having to have the hay right the very minute they called, were always broke. I'm thinking the square bale horse customers are a better group to deal with.....if it is top notch hay they aren't afraid to spend the money and seem to be less wishy washy.


They complained and cried about everything when I was doing small squares, too. 
Funny how when I committed to RB's, one of the main reasons was to make a product more easily affordable for horse customers and all it did was make it worse.
Another one of what I thought was a good customer pays double for small squares and told me it was because her Hispanic stable boy was mad because he had to cut the hay off the round bales rather than give them a flake off the small squares.
She pays this guy $32,000/yr CASH to muck stalls and turn out 25 horses and takes that kind of crap from an illegal alien, but bounces checks to me, her neighbor trying to do the right thing putting kids thru school, volunteer coaching, paying taxes. 
People are so friggin screwed up...


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> They complained and cried about everything when I was doing small squares, too.
> Funny how when I committed to RB's, one of the main reasons was to make a product more easily affordable for horse customers and all it did was make it worse.
> Another one of what I thought was a good customer pays double for small squares and told me it was because her Hispanic stable boy was mad because he had to cut the hay off the round bales rather than give them a flake off the small squares.
> She pays this guy $32,000/yr CASH to muck stalls and turn out 25 horses and takes that kind of crap from an illegal alien, but bounces checks to me, her neighbor trying to do the right thing putting kids thru school, volunteer coaching, paying taxes.
> People are so friggin screwed up...


Damn JD that seems backasswards to me.....I got a square baler to get into the horsey market, I don't want them to have a product more easily affordable if I have to make them and sell them....right now, the going rate round these parts on a round roll of Bermuda grass hay is $35-50.....It costs me right at $34 to make the hay on a good year, bad year even more. I can't make money on round rolls....if the market were $60-75 maybe.... but that ain't it

Easily affordable means "my loss your gain" that don't seem like fun to me....


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

There is a guy here in town with a fancy barn, 30 arabian horse, new dually diesel every 2 years - has to drive 2-3 hour trips now for hay as he has burned the 30-40 hay suppliers near him. Has to drive out past his reputation now.

Burned my neighbour for 4000$ a few years back, luckily not me. His mode of operation is cash for about 10% of the load and I'll drop a check off for the rest. Gets it to the barn then waits until hay is all used then complains it was dusty and says he won't pay for it.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Timely topic. Me and my teenage boys are just getting started making and selling a few square bales.

One guy was a no show twice and the other drive by and didn't stop (we saw him) and sent me an email stating no one was home and the hay looked like it had weeds in it - LOL!!!

I keep a list of names and numbers. The good customers are at the top of the list and I'll cut them some slack on the price if they stay with me. The no shows and want something for nothing crowd, back of the line and full price. With all customers, cash first, once we establish a dependable relationship, then a check.

I'm lucky in that I don't depend on any sale of hay to put potatoes on my plate, that's what the day job is for, so I can hold out for a respectable customer. Knock on wood - so far, so good.

Good luck,
Bill


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I don't have these kind of problems with horse customers anymore.
> 
> Cash only.
> 
> No delivery, you want it, you come and get it.


Not much delivery here either. When I got into 3x3 bales I thought I would have to deliver to sell out. So I bought a Topkick 6500 and a 25 dually foot gooseneck. Thankfully turns out that most 3x3 bale buyers have their own trailers and are more then willing to come get it. So now the trailer and truck don't get used much. I think about selling them from time to time, but they are good to have around.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Damn JD that seems backasswards to me.....I got a square baler to get into the horsey market, I don't want them to have a product more easily affordable if I have to make them and sell them....right now, the going rate round these parts on a round roll of Bermuda grass hay is $35-50.....It costs me right at $34 to make the hay on a good year, bad year even more. I can't make money on round rolls....if the market were $60-75 maybe.... but that ain't it
> Easily affordable means "my loss your gain" that don't seem like fun to me....


It sounds backward ass to me, too, but I don't have the manpower or storage space for 16,000 small squares per year. 
You can get $75 for a round bale up here. The customer I sold the hay to that postponed me for 2-3 weeks agreed to $75/ bale. 
At $70/bale I'm doing real well. I can sell for less and still do fine, but $75 is my goal.

Maybe she found some other sucker that would sell for $74.99 a bale. Lol


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*Horse hay buyers vs hay producers.*

They on average are just low average. A few are great customers. most are average, but there are a few that are so bad they bring the average down to a low average.

In truth HERE the typical good horse owning has just a few horses. I had a very few horse owners who are business, and their business is horses. They treat me like another business to work with. 
Unfortunately those with more than 4 horses are a definite risk for nonpayment.

The reason is any one with grazing animals who does not have an income stream from their animals is a credit risk. Nor do they have enough forage to full feed their animals by grazing.

Even at today's prices cattle on hay can not compete with someone who is a full time grazing manager. 
Even in the dairy industry, a small dairy herd operation with no grazing will not net as much per animal as a full time managed grazing dairy. 
I have good neighbors who will not pay $75 a 5X5 $1,100 round bale. Say they can not make any money in the cow calf business paying more than $35/bale. Which is true. Trouble is they want to pay $35 not what the hay is actually worth $75. Really I would loose money if I sold bar ditch hay for $35,

Round bales will be at least 1% CP lower than small squares, baled at the same time from the same field. The round baler shatters off enough leaves to loose at least 1% CP, the usual is they are at least 2% lower CP. 
To start with HERE we need to cut late enough in the day to accumulate enough non structural carbohydrates ( sugar ) and have enough time after mowing for the leaves to dry below 40% moisture before dark for the leaves to stop loosing feed value over night. 
Then the hay needs to be raked when there is enough moisture in the leaves to hold the leaves on the stems. Then the hay must be baled with enough humidity for the leaves to stick on the stems during baling.

Here hay typically needs to be raked at first light to keep the leaf losses down to 5 %. 
Here hay typically needs to be bale when the humidity ( down next to the windrow) is between 55% & 65% for RB's Small square bales have a 5% larger window of opportunity.

Here typically we have 2 hours of excellent baling conditions, for small sq. Bales.

Under those conditions the hay will cost as much to grow and harvest but will be worth just a little more than our cost of harvest.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

carcajou said:


> Does picky mean them want just the right hay or something else? Drove on down to Calgary today, geez that snow flattened out those heavy crops.


Ya there are a lot of crops around the area that look like they have been ran over with a roller. Not so good.

The sheep people are just as picky as the horse folks when it comes to color. The type of mix of hay, no rain on it, dust etc. But than they want to see a feed test. The test has to be good to excellent. Than some of them come out and sample every bale they are interested in with a moisture probe and a pick to pull a sample of hay. They even sample your poor hay even when you tell them that stack is the poorer stuff. Just to get an idea if you know how to put up hay or not. The one guy didnt buy the good hay because the poor hay was too bad. Said I had some high moisture bales there and could not take the chance with the good stuff. Even tho he tested about 75% of the good hay and it was fine. There is a reason I sort the different qualities of hay!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

From talks with the barn manager of a big boarding stable I sell hay to I think horse stable owners might have it even harder then hay producers. Not only do they have to please their boarders who are all hay experts, but they have to deal with how the boarders want or think their horses need to be cared for. Like this guy told me about one boarder who asked them to be sure to have water ready for the horse right beside it's feed. Because the horse always liked to take a bite of hay then take a drink and so forth.....


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Cow guy calls you and says he wants a "load of hay", he shows up with a trailer and gets at least 100 bales.

Horse gal calls you and says she wants a "load of hay", shows up in an Escalade and gets two bales. Even wants you to put some plastic trash bags down so the hay doesn't get in the carpet.


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

I am a CIF guy. Cash in fist. Unless I have dealt with you before CIF, check's = no hay. 
Had a guy come get hay one time. We loaded him up and he handed me some cash. Counted it and it was short. I told him and he said he thought it was a dollar a bale cheaper. Told him nope it wasn't.
Wanted to know what we was going to do. As we started to unload enough hay to make us even he somehow found more money in his pocket. He did squirrel around quite a bit though. Just have to much in it not to get the money.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Around here 99% of the folks buying hay for cattle expect you to practically give the hay to them. If your lucky you might find one that would give you what it cost to make it. When I told them what I was asking for the hay the would act like you were trying to rob them. When I quit round baling I had about 100 rolls of hay that had been outside for about 6 months and I had no luck in selling them.....I got to the point that I was going to give them away to just get rid of them.....the reply I got was will you deliver them.....the rolls are still sitting alongside the field rotting. I can think of a lot better ways to lose money than giving hay away.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Now I got some alpaca guy after my hay. Prolly wants a scientific study done on it first, then will offer me $40/bale. Lol
Why do people almost feel like they're entitled to screw farmers out of money and also their time?


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

We farmers are rich don't you know? Money just falling out of our pockets...


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

sounds like some of you need to spend more time screening/selecting your customers. I only deal in horse hay customers, not taking the time and resources to make "cow hay". Too many people around here already cut then roll two weeks later for fencerow enhancement.

I have had one check bounce in the last 5 years, maybe in the entire time I have been selling hay. I knew the one that did would make it right-still was a pita, but I did not worry. Have had some laggards on paying that I weeded out, like my neighbor across the street who had enough money to go to Bermuda to play tennis with the girls but not enough to pay for the championship timothy I had put in her barn.

Like others have reported, I am working towards weaning myself from delivery. all customers added in the last 2 years are come and get it customers at 6 a bale, now 65 a roll-4x5net. Just finished my hay season yesterday, 5300 sqs, 190 rolls. could probably squeeze in some more but it is time to get comfortable with my 280 Ackley ruger 1 for fall.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Do I see a new ironhorse listed Hayman?

Regards, Mike


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I deal primarilywith brokers. I contract with them early on and they comeget it when they need it. They bring a crew and load it out and leave cash or money order in an agreed upon location. Same with ear corn. Once its in the barn its no longer mine. One drawback of contracting with someone sometimes you gotta scramble when yields are down. This year for sure I had to find hay quick.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

...."280 Ackley ruger 1 for fall." a non issue with me. I have a 200 yard range in the back, a Class 3 and I'm always playing with things that go boom......

I look at commercial forage like this... (my credo so to speak)

It goes in green and comes out brown anyway, so.....

Casi always

No Credit

Paid before leaving premisis, in full

Delivery, $2.50 per mile (both ways), paid in advance (hay and transportation)

Pickup and viewing at the barns by appointment only, you waffle, I jack the price up

At barn, customer loads, I count. I'm 65, I don't chuck bales

You come look at my hay and start whining, you and I are heading to the door because I don't have time, nor do I want to hear your sob story.... goodbye.

The above applies to new cistomers. Repeat and regular customers get to pay after they get the forage and I'll take a check (prefer cash because I don't have to tell Uncle Sam....lol)

I have never been stiffed or got a rubber check, probably because I have a 'Ted Nugent for President' sign (Ted's brother Rick is a friend of mine btw) on my pickup, everyone around these parts know that I a gun nut with a short fuse and I never give them enough leeway to assume they can stiff me. 

I advertise on Craigslist if I have excess inventory. I have a couple customers who have boarding stables and basically buy everything and I know up front how many bales they need per year. Been dealing with those people for years now, no issues, ever.

Business people are much easier to deal with because it's business. Not a backyard horse owner. I really don't cotton to those types.

I keep a comprehensive list on the computer, all the time, a customer list that defines their payment history, location and habits. New customers (I don't have many) are flagged until they establish themselves...

Like I said, it goes in green, comes out brown and brown is basically worthless....

I don't have the time for BS. I run/own a machine shop and this (making hay) is my relaxiation in the warmer months. It's getting time for hunting and adventures with the group I hunt with. Some people like football, we like killing things (for the freezer). (I figure I better clear the air on my last statement).....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Now I got some alpaca guy after my hay. Prolly wants a scientific study done on it first, then will offer me $40/bale. Lol
> Why do people almost feel like they're entitled to screw farmers out of money and also their time?


Some alpaca people are easier then others. Just like horse owners.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Jd3430, I have 2 alpalca customers and they both are really picky, but won't bat an eye at the price. Both buy about 3000 bales apiece of second or 3rd cut. If its green and ultra fine hay they will eat it. If its 1st cutting and a little rougher than they are used to, they will sniff it, nibble and then walk away! Watched them do it. Freakin hilarious animals. Of course that might be the owners spoiling them as money doesn't seem to be an issue. 
I deal with almost all horse customers, all small squares with a few hundred 3x3s in there somewhere. I take checks, cash IOUs. I literally have never been screwed. Some people tell me beforehand they can pay half now and half next month. Not a problem. Just how it is. Most people either are repeats or are going to be. And I'm not cheap either, plenty of guys that are cheaper than me. I do my best to be honest with people and that goes a long way with people. First time customers are cash or check tho.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Customers are customers. Some great, some good, some so-so, some just outright bad.

As a small business owner in systems development, I had a number of people try to stiff me, some big, some small. This includes firms as big as ADP, as small as a one man shop. As a property owner/leasor, I had 2 renters in a row try to stiff me out of rent.

At first, I was offended because I don't think or operate like that. But then I realized that that it's epidemic in our society! And I further realized, as I have stated here many times, that it starts at the top and filters down.

After a while, I learned that I could always find a way to get my money! Sometimes, it took a direct confrontation, sometimes a lot of patience. But I believe that what goes around, comes around, so I just had to wait it out, even for years!

Losing money on bad customers is an expected cost of doing business nowadays. That's why credit card rates are 18% or more. Visa, Mastercard, etc., don't really care if you pay your bill or not. They make their money off of those who pay (minimum or in full) and they make more than enough to cover their losses. They charge the business 5%, the customer 18-20%, so even if you don't pay, they are still making 5%.

Wonder what would happen if a person told their customers that you have to charge an extra $1/sm. sq. bale to cover those who don't pay?

Ralph


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Now I got some alpaca guy after my hay. Prolly wants a scientific study done on it first, then will offer me $40/bale. Lol
> Why do people almost feel like they're entitled to screw farmers out of money and also their time?


 I recently picked up an alpaca hay customer and if they hay is what they want they aren't afraid to shell out the cash. But they only want fine 2nd or 3rd cut orchard grass with practically no stem. Real easy to deal with if they hay is what they like.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Yes, Mike, bit the bullet on a 6115M-traded my 6100D. What an upgrade. thing pulling a 7 shank cp @1500 in 8th gear, does not know it is there with the shanks buried. Needed a buddy seat for my 5yr grandson who now wants to ride longer. could not put one in the d so here we are. 2013 with 250 hrs. Nice. Have already run it through most of the tasks we do without an incident. Would have rather had 2wd but then I would have to order it and would be full tier 4. rick


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayman1 said:


> Would have rather had 2wd but then I would have to order it and would be full tier 4. rick


Congratulations man....you will be better off in the long run with 4wd as far as resale etc. I heard those 6M's have a nice growl to them. I am envious. Glad it's not a full blown 4 tier.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I must be lucky because I've never had problems like that with horse folks. Most have been real good to deal with but I'm simply not going to deal with customers that are going to complain about the price every time.....I tell them if they don't like it they can hit the road. This is for square bales though. Now that I think about it when I first started out and was doing round bales the horse customers were a pain.....always complaining about price, having to have the hay right the very minute they called, were always broke. I'm thinking the square bale horse customers are a better group to deal with.....if it is top notch hay they aren't afraid to spend the money and seem to be less wishy washy.


 I guess I spoke too soon.....today I caught one of my fairly regular horse customers stealing hay. It was a lady who has too many horses for her pasture. When I went to her place to confront her she made up all kind of stories but it was hard to argue with the surveillance camera. She offered to pay for the hay but I told her I wanted the hay back instead because I had plenty of other customers that would be happy to buy it and would not steal from me. I'm sure this isn't the first time she has done that but I don't think it has been going on for more than a couple weeks because all of a sudden a few weeks ago the stack of hay started shrinking fast and it didn't seem like I was taking in that much money but I never though about a customer stealing it. There is not much I hate more than a thief.

This is the first real problem I have had but I think it is somewhat due to the fact that almost every one of my regular customers are men because I don't put up with all the bs that goes with most women horse hay buyers. It seems like a lot of the posts I read about problem horse hay buyers are women.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan said:


> Some alpaca people are easier then others. Just like horse owners.


Too funny, just a few hours after I typed this post, the guy called me back and wants me to mail him samples of my hay !

I told you he wants a scientific analysis.....and I was right!! LOL

i'm not shocked this happened, Ive sent a few peope samples, but for the life of me, I cant believe smone would buy 30 4x5's based on what a handfull in a baggie looks like.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> I guess I spoke too soon.....today I caught one of my fairly regular horse customers stealing hay. It was a lady who has too many horses for her pasture. When I went to her place to confront her she made up all kind of stories but it was hard to argue with the surveillance camera. She offered to pay for the hay but I told her I wanted the hay back instead because I had plenty of other customers that would be happy to buy it and would not steal from me. I'm sure this isn't the first time she has done that but I don't think it has been going on for more than a couple weeks because all of a sudden a few weeks ago the stack of hay started shrinking fast and it didn't seem like I was taking in that much money but I never though about a customer stealing it. There is not much I hate more than a thief.
> 
> This is the first real problem I have had but I think it is somewhat due to the fact that almost every one of my regular customers are men because I don't put up with all the bs that goes with most women horse hay buyers. It seems like a lot of the posts I read about problem horse hay buyers are women.


Thats disgraceful and yes, I notice the same thing.

The more I get to know them, the more I think they're half crazy.


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

If I caught em stealing my hay I would prosecute them. If they caught you doing that you would be in big trouble . That's Bull S$&@ period


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

Check bounces ... cash only from that point forward. No Pay ... No Hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think that's my first bounced check after millions of dollars in construction and farming for 25 years. 
She made good on the check. I think it's the one that had me load the trailer, then back out. That one really pissed me off


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Teslan said:


> Some alpaca people are easier then others. Just like horse owners.


Truth. ^^^^^^^^^


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people. Most of them are really inconsiderate and dumber than a fence post and the rest of them can't even write a check that won't bounce.
> Last week one writes me a check for $800 and bounces it. I went back to her explaining the check bounced. My bank just mails me the check back but it takes 8 days. Meantime I wrote checks on that check. Then she writes me another check with the wrong company name on it. Are you kidding me?
> Next genius calls me yesterday and we agree on a price for me to deliver 2 loads of round bales (30) to her this Saturday. I load the trailer tonight and strap it all down, then she texts me an hour ago and tells me she needs to wait 2-3 weeks. I'm like WTF kind of way is that to screw a farmer? At least have the balls to call me and tell me you're gonna waste my time and fuel to screw me.
> Then there's the one who calls me Tuesday and we make a deal of $40/bale on 50 bales because he wanted "all natural" hay, which I actually do have 50 bales of. He asks me to call him tonight and I do. He tells me since we talked, he "found same size bales stored inside for $30/ each". I'm like, how does anyone produce and store 4x5 RBs inside for $30/ea.
> ...


Short answer is: They're inconsiderate of any interest other than their own. They don't care what we've invested for inputs, equipment, yada, yada. It's all about them, and it's not going to get any easier. Produce quality crops whatever it may be, set the prices and delivery conditions and stand by them. Hang in there.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

The manheim Ms (guessing the ones under 100hp are made in Augusta, my 5075 was) have a throaty purr, reminds me of the 40 series. They just sound different and feel different. Don't get me wrong, liked my D, but the 6115M is fun to drive and the partial power shift that I did not think I wanted was made for haymaking-both cutting and baling. Here we are yesterday after finishing the years hay business.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry no upload. HT platform does not like Internet Exp 8. Had all sorts of trouble. They know about it. Arg!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

shortrow said:


> Short answer is: They're inconsiderate of any interest other than their own. They don't care what we've invested for inputs, equipment, yada, yada. It's all about them, and it's not going to get any easier. Produce quality crops whatever it may be, set the prices and delivery conditions and stand by them. Hang in there.


Thanks. I think I needed to vent.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

shortrow said:


> Short answer is: They're inconsiderate of any interest other than their own. They don't care what we've invested for inputs, equipment, yada, yada. It's all about them, and it's not going to get any easier. Produce quality crops whatever it may be, set the prices and delivery conditions and stand by them. Hang in there.


That, like many other things, is epidemic is the USA nowadays. As much as they have their faults, I would like to see all religions step up to the plate and talk more about respect, honor, truth, integrity, (and throw in a little apple pie and the American way).

Ralph


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Bottom line is, it don't matter if, you derive your income from them, you just have to 'grin and bear it'.

Don't think for a minute that the corporate world is any different because it's not. Only difference is the numerical amounts. Instead of a couple hunfred or maybe a grand, it's a half mil.


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Thanks. I think I needed to vent.


No problem bro. Keep on pluggin.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I got 3 of these dopes in one week. More than I can take.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Without dealing with customers your business would be great jd. Relieve most of your headaches. But then without any customers I don't think you could afford diesel. The catch 22 of any enterprise.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Some of my customers are GREAT. 
The thing I hate is a customer talks a bunch of BS about how amazing their life is, has me load up a trailer full of hay to be delivered the next day, then that night tells me to wait 3 weeks. 
It's like my time is worthless and they couldn't give a %^@# how much time I lost.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We give our dairy customers ( most buy horse hay also because they farm with hoses ) 60 days to pay for a 6 ton load of hay and sometimes up to 6 months to pay for a big load of straw . Yes we do charge some interest.


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## Tjim (Feb 23, 2014)

We sold our last load of horse hay around 30 years ago. I can glady say we have almost recovered


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, so got 2nd call from another horse customer. 
Wants to know price. I said $80/bale, but it saw a little rain, after baling, so $75.
She asked me size of bales probably 5 times (even though its printed twice in ad) 
She asks me for a sample bale. Since she's closely, I brought her a bale for a pre-agreed price of $80.
I back up to barn and she tells me she wants the bale put "over there".
She points to a spot over on left side of barn 50 feet away. From where I parked my truck to the spot she wants it is like 40 tons of junk that has to be moved. I wanted to tell her I wasn't an employee of "junk monkey", but I bit my tongue. I noticed a horizontal support beam only 4'-4.5' off the floor and told her that even if we got the bale over to the side of the barn, we wouldn't be able to fit it under the beam (and she told me she wanted ALL the bales delivered in 1st conversation).
Imagine being stupid enough to believe 5' diameter bales will fit under a 4' beam. She had no trouble dragging my ass out there with a bale without FIRST measuring the height of the beam. 
Anyway, she has me drive around other side of barn. 45 minutes have now lapsed. 
I have to drive into a muddy paddock and she has me rolls it off onto muddy ground (but had no trouble commenting on the bale having a "sun bleached" appearance. 
1&1/4 hrs later, she hands me some folded up cash. I count it up. It's only $75. I told her we agreed on $80. She bitched and moaned, but of course this is AFTER I unload the bale.

Anyone ever put up with shit like this from people?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Time you start telling them it's $75/hr for unloading from the time you pull in the yard. That's what we charge. They soon get their shit together.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> OK, so got 2nd call from another horse customer.
> Wants to know price. I said $80/bale, but it saw a little rain, after baling, so $75.
> She asked me size of bales probably 5 times (even though its printed twice in ad)
> She asks me for a sample bale. Since she's closely, I brought her a bale for a pre-agreed price of $80.
> ...


 Nope I'm not going to put up with customers like that. Your description sounds just like the first couple times I took hay to the women that I caught stealing hay from me.....I told here that I would no longer deliver and if she wanted to buy from me she would have to pick it up at my place......that saved me a lot of time and trouble but then you see what happened. I see why your frustrated.....and I would be too.....I have got to the point where I'm simply not going to attempt to deal with problem customers like that.....I will find a different market for my hay or raise a different crop before I have to deal with that headache and waste my time. I swear it is best to avoid women horse hay buyers.

The other day I picked up a horse hay new customer who is great to deal with and loves my hay.....not 1 complaint. This morning he sent a friend to buy hay from me and another friend is coming Monday. I can see that this will be a good long term customer. Just have to sort through the problem customers to find the good ones.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> Anyone ever put up with shit like this from people?


I did when expanding my hay business.But when I cut back on acres of hay I pick and choose my customers and will not deal with this kind of crap no more.Life is to short.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> Nope I'm not going to put up with customers like that. Your description sounds just like the first couple times I took hay to the women that I caught stealing hay from me.....I told here that I would no longer deliver and if she wanted to buy from me she would have to pick it up at my place......that saved me a lot of time and trouble but then you see what happened. I see why your frustrated.....and I would be too.....I have got to the point where I'm simply not going to attempt to deal with problem customers like that.....I will find a different market for my hay or raise a different crop before I have to deal with that headache and waste my time. I swear it is best to avoid women horse hay buyers.
> The other day I picked up a horse hay new customer who is great to deal with and loves my hay.....not 1 complaint. This morning he sent a friend to buy hay from me and another friend is coming Monday. I can see that this will be a good long term customer. Just have to sort through the problem customers to find the good ones.


I'm delivering hay this morning. 14 bales. 50 mile drive ech way.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Jd- you sound like a glutton for punishment. What are the shroom guys paying these days?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

$100/ton if moisture is under 20%.
Delivered hay to a alpaca customer this morning. 
All in all went reasonably well. Made $80/bale and $150 delivery charge for 4-5 hrs loading, trip there, unload, trip home. 
I feel like that's good money and that's the way it should be.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I had a customer that wanted me to drive out into the mudhole field and push the bale off. If I had gone where she had wanted I def would have gotten stuck. I put an end to that. The thing that I find interesting is that with most of my "crazy" horse hay customers there arent any MEN in sight... Never had a "crazy" horsehay customer that had a male with in sight when I was around.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

If they do, its their son or their father. Pretty much no exceptions.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

I'd sell hay to horse customers anyday of the week over cattle customers or alpaca customers.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Just had a cattle customer leave my place with 8 RBs 
He called me. We agreed on a time. He arrived on time, put the CORRECT AMOUNT of cash in my hand, I loaded him up and he left. He didnt ask me a bunch of stupid questions and called me when he got home to tell me wants 8 more tomorrow. 
Can't they all be that way instead of some mouth breather with cottage cheese thighs trying to short change me on payment, tell me how freakin unbelievable she is and asking me about 50 dumb questions then telling me my hay bales have a bleached appearance on one side?


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

A bit of good news, Dads horse lady finally settled up on her bill from almost 3 years ago. Heard through the grapevine that her husband sold a quarter of land and she said she sold her colts. Pretty darn good of her to settle up after that long. Dad had almost given up on her. He got his $14k plus he got 20 bucks off of me because I bet him the check probably wouldn't be good and it was.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

IHCman said:


> A bit of good news, Dads horse lady finally settled up on her bill from almost 3 years ago. Heard through the grapevine that her husband sold a quarter of land and she said she sold her colts. Pretty darn good of her to settle up after that long. Dad had almost given up on her. He got his $14k plus he got 20 bucks off of me because I bet him the check probably wouldn't be good and it was.


You owe him odds on that one. Should buy him a case of carbonated beverages or at least a lunch @ the local cafe for winning that bet. Good for him. Good to hear that not all of the deadbeats are that way by choice.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

PaMike said:


> The thing that I find interesting is that with most of my "crazy" horse hay customers there arent any MEN in sight... Never had a "crazy" horsehay customer that had a male with in sight when I was around.


Met a few of those.... I try to keep the price high, not just so I make money but it does help keep the tight asses at bay.


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

the easy part is putting it in the barn


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Just had a cattle customer leave my place with 8 RBs
> He called me. We agreed on a time. He arrived on time, put the CORRECT AMOUNT of cash in my hand, I loaded him up and he left. He didnt ask me a bunch of stupid questions and called me when he got home to tell me wants 8 more tomorrow.
> Can't they all be that way instead of some mouth breather with cottage cheese thighs trying to short change me on payment, tell me how freakin unbelievable she is and asking me about 50 dumb questions then telling me my hay bales have a bleached appearance on one side?


I must say none of my female hay buyers have' cottage cheese thighs' whatever that is exactly, I'm not sure.... They all look and smell wonderful and they all pay cash. I have one repeat every year gal. She has shoulder length black hair, an hourglass figure, green eyes always smiling and always pays cash. She gets 400 bale of first cut just like clockwork, I deliver them, her crew (all young gals) unloads them and she pays for the haul too. I just sit and gaze.....lol


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

expensive hobby said:


> the easy part is putting it in the barn


Sometimes yes, somtimes no.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I keep flip floping between selling horse hay and feeding it to steers. I am currently in the feed it to steers mode due to being tired of utilizing my "people skills". As soon as this steer market tanks I will probaby be preaching a differant tune...


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