# I am so sick of B*S*



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-dollar66-billion-bayer-monsanto-merger-just-got-a-major-green-light-%e2%80%94-but-farmers-are-terrified/ar-AAvHhNk?li=BBnb7Kz

This merger should NOT be allowed!

A couple of quotes:

"If you look at how much of the farmers' seed and pesticide dollars are going to these companies, Monsanto-Bayer - if it were one company today - would be getting $1 out of every $3," Connelly says. "Dow-Dupont would be taking one out of every $4. Think that's a problem? Holy crap, right?"

The merger simply allows legal price fixing. No company should be allowed to control more than 5% of a marketplace.

"Such consolidation isn't the only headache for farmers under the Trump administration. Some farm owners who depend on immigrant workers have concerns about Trump's immigration policies, *since they say they can't find enough American citizens to fill their staffs*." (Emphasis mine)

Yet, we have thousand upon thousand of people who are entitled, just sitting on their tails, whining and complaining. And we have 2.3 million people sitting in jail--what if they worked for a living? They want to eat today--hoe a filed of beans! By hand! Pick three tons of lettuce! By hand!

I'm just getting sick to my stomach with all the BS nowadays.

Ralph


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

But Ralph, it's the American way nowadays.....remember, companies CAN be too big to fail  something that wasn't even in the vernacular 20 yrs ago. And we like monopolies so much the board game has fallen of the list of best sellers, real life monopolies are much more satisfying. They can completely empty your pockets while you look......


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Well in the health insurance industry Aetna tried to buy Humana and that was basically blocked due to monopoly concerns in some markets. That was last year if memory is correct. Now both of those are looking be bought, Aetna by Caremark which owns CVS and Wal Mart is considering Humana.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rjmoses said:


> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-dollar66-billion-bayer-monsanto-merger-just-got-a-major-green-light---but-farmers-are-terrified/ar-AAvHhNk?li=BBnb7Kz
> 
> This merger should NOT be allowed!
> 
> ...


The excessive handouts the government now gives to our citizens has taken away our desire to work hard. 
For the most part, our citizenry has become uneducated, entitled and soft.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

> And we have 2.3 million people sitting in jail--what if they worked for a living? They want to eat today--hoe a filed of beans! By hand! Pick three tons of lettuce! By hand!


The courts have ruled this to be "cruel and unusual punishment".

Back when prisoners grew they own food on prison farms they did not have the time or energy to cause trouble. Prisoners also helped enforce the rules. If you did not carry your end of the stick, you did not eat. It also taught them a work ethic and they saw the rewards of that work.

California decided that prison should be used to rehabilitate. The rest of the nation followed.

Not much better rehab that sweat.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Funny you mention the 5% market share. Ralph, I was just thinking the other day that should be about the limit. Would really work to protect the consumer and ensure they actually have a choice


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

hillside hay said:


> Funny you mention the 5% market share. Ralph, I was just thinking the other day that should be about the limit. Would really work to protect the consumer and ensure they actually have a choice


I may not be understanding this correctly so if not forgive me..but if you mean no one company should be any larger than 5% of their market, then who would have the money to develop new product? If they are limited to 5% of market share then there would have to be at least 20 companies in any market. What market is the 5% limited to, the world market, the US market or the market of any one state? I believe such limits and requirements would really force high prices.

No doubt there is a point where a company or a couple can control a market but there is a need in any industry for a certain size to be competitive, think we have been watching that in the tractor industry for last few years as labels have come and gone.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

There was plenty of R+D before all these mergers. There was tons of R+D in the industrial Revolution and most of these were sole proprietorship with far less than 5% market share. How many advances in seed genetics came about before all these mergers? How do a group of billionaire investors who just skim percentages and inflate prices contribute to advances? Show me one, just one, instance where a merger made a farmer more profitable per acre on a non corporate farm? I know every time someone merges I have to figure out how to do more with less.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Years ago, R&D, including basic research, was totally tax deductible. Around 1975, the tax laws were changed and corporate R&D went in the dumper.

Around 1990, the patent laws were changed. Previously, patent applications were kept secret until the patent was approved or denied. Afterwards, patents were disclosed immediately upon application. The Washington, D.C., patent office was invaded by 1,000's of Japanese and Chinese engineers who accessed all applications as they were filed.

I recently had an idea that I developed a prototype and thought would be of interest to Rubbermaid. Their requirement was that a submission had to be patented before they would even look at it.

The tax laws, patent laws and big business do much more to discourage innovation than they do actual innovation. It's simply not in their interest to do product development because, first, it's risky and expensive, and second, they have extensive infrastructures in place for current product sales and production.

Ralph


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> Years ago, R&D, including basic research, was totally tax deductible. Around 1975, the tax laws were changed and corporate R&D went in the dumper.


Gotta agree, R&D was 'future' stuff for the industry that I use to work in (boat manufacturing). We were a private employee owned company, sold out to a large corporation. First thing that got cut, because too expensive R&D, first increased expense 'Corporates charges', next expense cut 'employee stock ownership' contributions.

Just follow the money, take all you can NOW, seem to be the order of the day (that and we became a 'bean counter' ran company).

Larry


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The seed industry has been vertically integrated like hog,and chickens.

There used to be alot of independent plant breeders that did the research for new varieties then sold it to Seed co's that grew it out and sold for seed.Most of these have been bought up by the larger seed co's.Universities also used to do alot of plant breeding,not much anymore.

I've dealt with a quite a few seed co's over the yrs and prefer to deal with family owned co's.Over the yrs alot of them have been bought up by corporate co's and they tend to go to shit after that and the price goes up.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

So am I understanding only tiny companies do any developing product? Are you saying that is only in seed and or chemical companies (and boat)?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Palmettokat said:


> So am I understanding only tiny companies do any developing product? Are you saying that is only in seed and or chemical companies (and boat)?


no many companies large and small did seed reaserch,plant breeding,crossing etc.Most have been bought out by Monsato,Dow or Sygenta.

Chemical cos and reaserch is a whole different ball game.Highly regulated and costly to get a product to market.EPA approval etc costs millions to get a product to market.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

This explains the changes in plant breeding over the yrs.
http://imbgl.cropsci.illinois.edu/school/2014/11_THOMAS_HOEGEMEYER.pdf


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Good read.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

What's intersting is you can buy the same seed in different bags.Sometimes with a big price difference.
And that goes for all seeds corn,soybeans,alfalfa,grass seed,etc.

First time I seen this I went to a seed grower- conditioner to pickup a truckload of seed corn and there was a dozen different brands of seed bags in warehouse.

Same goes for Alfalfa- forage seeds where I pick up at.Gets pretty intersting when you look around.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Palmettokat said:


> So am I understanding only tiny companies do any developing product? Are you saying that is only in seed and or chemical companies (and boat)?


According to some studies I've read, the majority of new product development comes from small or startup companies, e.g., Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon, just to name a few. These were all one-man (OK, a few more in some cases) companies at the git-go. Big companies, like IBM, couldn't make a go of PC's--hardware or software.

Of course, the majority of failures also come from small companies--but......then again, no pain, no gain.

Ralph


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