# I want to buy a used Dodge/Cummins 4WD



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, I need a second truck BADLY. My son is almost 16. We both love Dodge/Cummins. He can use it IF he maintains A average, stays out of trouble and kicks ass on the gridiron. If he does he can use it ona very limited basis. 
Here's what I want.
3500
4WD
Reg cab. 
10-12' flatned (or chassis with wheelbase that we can put a flatbed on)
Auto (yeah, I have my flame suit on)
I don't have much more than 15-20k to spend.

Biggest challenges I see are 
1. There's not a lot of that Dodge truck configuration out there in my price range.
2. The Dodge automatic transmissions suck, but I don't have enough time to teach him stick. Ain't gonna happen. 
3. Don't think they're rated much more than 24K GCWR

There will be NO engine mods or any hot rodding nonsense, but I would like an exhaust brake.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

The only wat to teach a kid how to drive a manual is put him in one tell him to go. My 14 year old mastered a 9'speed road ranger at 11 years old in the hay field. I put him in 1st gear and told him to just hit the starter when he needed to move. Loaded a few bales and seen the Volvo coming across the field about 25 mph. He had already figured 1 thru 5!


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Learning a manual with a diesel is much easier than with a gas. Wife never drove a manual until my '99 Cummins. Now she will pull a trailer if it is a simple trip. I understood that auto and exhaust brake don't play nice together on the 47/48REs. How old are you willing to go? From what I hear I prefer the 5.9, early 2007 or older.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I want something like this. This is a 2002 reg can auto. 
I guess we could try a manual. Just know its going to be difficult for HIM, not me. I might enjoy it. 
Asking $12,500. I'm liking that price.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm looking for the same exact thing except I want the 6 speed manual. Seems to be hard to find something like that.....I have been looking a couple months.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I remember my first real trip driving stick. I couldnt use the auto car I normally drove cause Dad was using it. He dropped me off at my buddys house so we could go to the drag races. My buddy had a stick shift but lost his license. If we were going to the races it was me driving his car. It was an hour drive each way and I got it done. Never had trouble with a clutch after that....

If you are looking for a cab and chassis might as well go older. Save the money on the truck and find a local body shop to do whatever body work/paint work needs done to make it "right". You can find trucks in the 12K range fairly easy that need a little paint and cosmetic work.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think the manual would keep purchase costs down and repair costs lower. The NV transmission was a tough chunk.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

IO tghink I'd get a manual too. The new Mopars have Allisons which is a bulletproof box (so long as you change the fluid and filters) but an older one, definitely a standard. Save your pennies and put a 'Brownie Box' behind the standard. Then you have 2 times the number of forward gears and a double reverse.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

They don't have an Allison, they have an Aisin. Damn fine Japanese HD truck transmission.
Keep in mind, it's going to be driven by a 16 yr old from time to time, so it needs to be easy to drive.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

If your thinking 24 valve 2nd gen, the auto was behind a 215 hp rating, the 5 spd NV was mated to 235 hp, and the 6 spd NV was behind a 245 hp engine. 6 speed NVs can be a pile of grief if they are not cared for properly, and getting really hard to find and costly to fix. 5 spd NVs need the 5th gear fixed on occaision, they will all do it sometime but its not a huge deal to fix. Fuel lift pumps must be monitored by gauge as they fail and if they do they can take out the injector pump.

Don't be afraid to add a few hp to the manual trans engines. Just don't get silly about it.

turbodieselregister.com is a good source of information on all Dodge Cummins models. Knowledgeable and rational people there.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> There will be NO engine mods or any hot rodding nonsense, but I would like an exhaust brake.


Party pooper, I didn't think you were that old yet


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

1: A pretty cheap kit can be added to monitor fuel pressure, it gets low and a red light comes on where ever you mount it.

2: Doesn't cost a whole lot to beef the stock tranny up to either tow whatever you want or handle any sane injection mods. Keep the RPMs at or below 2500 and the stock tranny holds up pretty well under any load.

3: If you want the kid to learn to drive a stick nothing easier than behind a diesel, if he smokes a clutch then it's a bonus as he can also learn to change a clutch or walk instead.

4: Need some older school tractors around the place, I learned to double clutch on Oliver Super 88's once I was big enough to reach the clutch pedal without having to get off the seat. Learned by pulling silage wagons, depending on whether or not it had a corn picker rear end or a standard, start out in third to get it rolling, double clutch to fourth, then maybe again depending on the diff double clutch to 5th, if you let em stop because you missed a gear start over in third.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Off topic but I'm curious, I hear a couple of you say it's easier to learn to drive a manual behind a diesel....why? I learned to drive manual in a 72 Ford 600 grain truck, 4 speed with 2 speed rear end, no power steering, and when loaded with 300 bushels of wheat the brakes were minimal.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> Off topic but I'm curious, I hear a couple of you say it's easier to learn to drive a manual behind a diesel....why? I learned to drive manual in a 72 Ford 600 grain truck, 4 speed with 2 speed rear end, no power steering, and when loaded with 300 bushels of wheat the brakes were minimal.


I'm guessing it's because a diesel has a lot more "off clutch" torque, (It doesn't stall as easy).
With a gasser, you have to learn to feather up the RPM to keep truck from stalling when you let out the clutch.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

The diesel has a governor...ease the clutch out and the governor will take care of the throttle.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Made our son learn to drive a manual on 1975 Ford with the T-19 transmission (which we still use) would not let him drive the ZF 5 speeds until he had mastered the other make em learn the hard one first then they won't have trouble with the others. I like most of you on here was driving tractors at a very young age so when getting in trucks with manual clutch was already second nature. Everything we had growing up except Moms and Dads LTD had manual heck my sister still won't buy a car with an automatic (Had to special order her Honda SUV and wait almost 2 months to get a stick.)


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

my 01 dodge would almost be what your looking for JD, except its a 2500. Has air bags though. I wouldn't be afraid of the auto tranny in the older ones. My 01 has 190k miles on it and still the original tranny. Keep the radiator clean and change filter helps a lot.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

If the kid is an A atudent and an athlete (tells me he has to have some sort of ambition) why would he have trouble learning how to drive a stick?

Just gotta learn left foot controls clutch. Right hand shifts.

Unless I am missing his special needs he will do fine.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I definitely want a dally and a longer wheelbase for hay bales.
What is the highest GCWR a and GVWR I could get in a 4WD back in the 5.9L days or maybe the early 6.7L days? Like 2002-2008?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> If the kid is an A atudent and an athlete (tells me he has to have some sort of ambition) why would he have trouble learning how to drive a stick?
> 
> Just gotta learn left foot controls clutch. Right hand shifts.
> 
> Unless I am missing his special needs he will do fine.


 I just wanted to make it easier for his first vehicle to learn to drive. I'd really like an auto, too. Just so much simpler to get from point A to point B. 
I'm not a real truck purist. I put too many miles in the jockey box rowing gears, I guess.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

For him starting in a manual would be good for him now and in the future as a driver. But if you are set on an auto, you are the one writing the check.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Found another candidate, but short bed.


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## crhay (Jun 19, 2010)

Buy a Duramax and be done with it haha, sorry i had to! I've owned a lot of dodge diesel's, Started back with my first one in 94. At the time yes, i loved them. The last new one i bought was in 2005. After that i switch to GM, Have 3 of them now, throw a EFI Live tow tune in them and they work like a dream!! They really are a pleasure to drive! Now i'm not trying to convince you on a dmax, i still like the Cummins, in fact i still have one that i bought. A holy grail 98 12v 2500 4x4 QCLB 5sp that sleeps in the barn and only comes out for a Saturday night he!! ride.

I would keep looking at the 5.9's, anything you buy used will be a gamble depending on the life it had before you. When towing, (more with turned up truck) getting the power to the rear wheels is usually the weak link. Clutch on a manual, T/C-clutches on an auto. If your leaning toward an auto, i wouldn't hesitate at all on one. These aftermarket companies have got them figured out now. They can build them to hold tons of power, and shift like an allison. But you have to keep this one thing in mind. A Good clutch is cheaper than a good aftermarket trans. Everyone thinks the allison behind a dmax is bullet proof, Wrong! If you work them, they will need freshen up over time. All 3 of mine have aftermarket trans in them.

What your looking for is out there. They are just hard to find, plus its crazy how these truck 10+ years old keep their value! Keep searching, find that one that some young punk kid didn't own and has the snot ran out of it.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

crhay said:


> Buy a Duramax and be done with it haha, sorry i had to! I've owned a lot of dodge diesel's, Started back with my first one in 94. At the time yes, i loved them. The last new one i bought was in 2005. After that i switch to GM, Have 3 of them now, throw a EFI Live tow tune in them and they work like a dream!! They really are a pleasure to drive! Now i'm not trying to convince you on a dmax, i still like the Cummins, in fact i still have one that i bought. A holy grail 98 12v 2500 4x4 QCLB 5sp that sleeps in the barn and only comes out for a Saturday night he!! ride.
> 
> I would keep looking at the 5.9's, anything you buy used will be a gamble depending on the life it had before you. When towing, (more with turned up truck) getting the power to the rear wheels is usually the weak link. Clutch on a manual, T/C-clutches on an auto. If your leaning toward an auto, i wouldn't hesitate at all on one. These aftermarket companies have got them figured out now. They can build them to hold tons of power, and shift like an allison. But you have to keep this one thing in mind. A Good clutch is cheaper than a good aftermarket trans. Everyone thinks the allison behind a dmax is bullet proof, Wrong! If you work them, they will need freshen up over time. All 3 of mine have aftermarket trans in them.
> 
> What your looking for is out there. They are just hard to find, plus its crazy how these truck 10+ years old keep their value! Keep searching, find that one that some young punk kid didn't own and has the snot ran out of it.


Would my 96 5 speed be the holy grail also? I agree, I doubt I ever get rid of it.

EFI Live on a 07.5 to 09 6.7 turns it into a pulling machine. I crossed the scales at the quarry the other day at 30,000 lbs. it's amazing how much power that motor can make. It's also got a dual disk clutch from Indiana in it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I owned a 2007 DMAX/ally from 2007-2014. It was a good truck. I just really want a Dodge Cummins. I don't really want to bomb it or anything. I kind of like it stock or maybe boosted 30-50HP. 
I don't want any more hot rodded nonsense. 
I actually would like an exhaust brake more than a power boost. Lol


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## crhay (Jun 19, 2010)

Bonfire said:


> Would my 96 5 speed be the holy grail also? I agree, I doubt I ever get rid of it.
> 
> EFI Live on a 07.5 to 09 6.7 turns it into a pulling machine. I crossed the scales at the quarry the other day at 30,000 lbs. it's amazing how much power that motor can make. It's also got a dual disk clutch from Indiana in it.


They always called the 98 12v a holy grail because they were only made for 5-6 months. 98 is when they changed the interior and made the "quad cab". So for those few months is only time you could get a 12v with new interior and quad cab, after that they started into the 98.5 24v's. Rumor is they wanted to put 24v's in all 98 models, but Cummins didn't have engine ready for Dodge yet, so they started the first few months with the 12v.

You can't go wrong dodge or gm, i loved my dodges, But after a long day of driving my semi, when i jump in a dodge, felt like i was still in it lol. GM's are as close to ridding like a car as you'll get IMO


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/cto/5057962324.html

I know this is a long way off but something to look at, and no salty roads like y'all got!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Ok, I need a second truck BADLY. My son is almost 16. We both love Dodge/Cummins. He can use it IF he maintains A average, stays out of trouble and kicks ass on the gridiron. If he does he can use it ona very limited basis.
> Here's what I want.
> 3500
> 4WD
> ...


JD, not to sound like a piss-ant but......if the kid maintains a "A" average and stays out of trouble, (the hell with kicking ass on the gridiron) why don't you ask him what HE wants and buy a truck/car that is something similar to what he wants? I mean, wth do you mean,"he might get to drive it on a limited basis" .....the kid is turning 16 if I remember correctly, but every mention is "I" want this....or "I" want that....how about what the kid wants? And don't tell me a 1 ton flatbed, I can assure you that's your want, not your sons......


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/cto/5057962324.html

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/cto/5044187663.html

I know this is a long way off but something to look at, and no salty roads like y'all got!


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Not to start anything dawg, but when I turned 16 I was tickled pink to be able to drive the farm truck around.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> JD, not to sound like a piss-ant but......if the kid maintains a "A" average and stays out of trouble, (the hell with kicking ass on the gridiron) why don't you ask him what HE wants and buy a truck/car that is something similar to what he wants? I mean, wth do you mean,"he might get to drive it on a limited basis" .....the kid is turning 16 if I remember correctly, but every mention is "I" want this....or "I" want that....how about what the kid wants? And don't tell me a 1 ton flatbed, I can assure you that's your want, not your sons......


No no no, you're wrong, that's EXACTLY what HE wants, and I happen to be very happy with that truck, too. This kids a big bruiser. He wants a man size truck, not some wussy Toyota Supra or something like that. 
I'm paying for it and I'll be using it when the 550 goes down and I may even put a plow on it for snow, but I'd doubt it. My wife likes him wrapped in solid heavy steel. He knows it's dads truck, and he can use it time to time as long as he's behavin'. I will not raise a disrespectful boy. 
When you say " the hell with the gridiron" I understand you don't think it's important, but one of his goals is to play college football. I want him to pursue his dreams and help him achieve them. That's what dads do! 
Anyway, I think it'll be handy for pulling smaller loads of hay, farm machinery, etc. 
Basically I need a back up truck, and he wants a truck and we both like retro Dodges. He's gotts drive something safe and strong. 
Trucks are VERY popular in the HS student parking lot.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

bluefarmer said:


> Not to start anything dawg, but when I turned 16 I was tickled pink to be able to drive the farm truck around.


My first truck I owned, well kinda a truck, was a '75 Toyota Land Cruiser.  
Found it in a barn and fixed it all up. 
Then I bought a 76 F-350 4WD with a 429.  a true beater truck.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> No no no, you're wrong, that's EXACTLY what HE wants, and I happen to be very happy with that truck, too. This kids a big bruiser. He wants a man size truck, not some wussy Toyota Supra or something like that.
> I'm paying for it and I'll be using it when the 550 goes down and I may even put a plow on it for snow, but I'd doubt it. My wife likes him wrapped in solid heavy steel. He knows it's dads truck, and he can use it time to time as long as he's behavin'. I will not raise a disrespectful boy.
> When you say " the hell with the gridiron" I understand you don't think it's important, but one of his goals is to play college football. I want him to pursue his dreams and help him achieve them. That's what dads do!
> Anyway, I think it'll be handy for pulling smaller loads of hay, farm machinery, etc.
> ...


I'm just sayin the kid needs to have input....he sounds like a good kid and the HS years are tough, kids change a lot from one year to the next. Our HS is 3600 strong and 95% of the male population drives a truck, some nicer than mine, but I can honestly say, I ain't never seen one drivin a 1 ton flatbed with any regularity. Seems dangerous for a 16 yr old, and very hard to maneuver in tight spots, full of blind spots. 
Having coached for some 17 yrs and seeing several young men I've coached go on to play professional sports, Div 1, div 2, juco, I understand the desire and dedication it takes to play sports at higher levels, I also understand that it's not for everyone and he may or may not decide to play one day and it has nothing to do with his ultimate character. I've seen many try to make it and succeed and and many try to make it and not succeed.....some had it in the heart, some in the mind, some in the body, very few have it all....when they do they still have to battle through women and drugs, both will derail them. I guess what I'm sayin is this, I wouldn't give a crap whether he kicked ass on the gridiron but more as to whether he pushed himself to his fullest potential to realize his goals, that will pay dividends in the game of life....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

bluefarmer said:


> Not to start anything dawg, but when I turned 16 I was tickled pink to be able to drive the farm truck around.


So was I, but oh how times have changed........loved my dodge dart with the slant 6


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> My first truck I owned, well kinda a truck, was a '75 Toyota Land Cruiser.
> Found it in a barn and fixed it all up.
> Then I bought a 76 F-350 4WD with a 429.  a true beater truck.


76 f350 with 4wd and 429, wow
I woulda wore out my long flexible "credit card" with that one......


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

460 Fords are noted guzzlers.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So back to the topic of the truck, does anyone know how to tell by the VIN # if the truck was originally built as a cab/chassis or a pickup truck?
Or is there some other tell-tale sign?
I think the shorter truck I posted a picture of may have been a dually pickup, but other than the flatned being pretty short, I can't prove it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> 76 f350 with 4wd and 429, wow
> I woulda wore out my long flexible "credit card" with that one......


"Long flexible credit card"?

On edit: yeah....lol....now I get it. 
Buddy of mine went to the hospital once using one of those. Thought his eyeballs we're going to blow out of his head after he got a good gulp of it. Lol


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol, good ole hose pipe, never used to leave home without it.......especially with a 429 ford or worse yet like ARD mentioned a 460. We got caught once or twice, got our tails tore up.....still always had one in the trunk.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/VIN_decode.htm

Take a look at this.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So back to the topic of the truck, does anyone know how to tell by the VIN # if the truck was originally built as a cab/chassis or a pickup truck?
> Or is there some other tell-tale sign?
> I think the shorter truck I posted a picture of may have been a dually pickup, but other than the flatned being pretty short, I can't prove it.


Aren't the C&Cs narrower?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

ARD Farm said:


> 460 Fords are noted guzzlers.


 No kidding, also hard on rear tires.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> So back to the topic of the truck, does anyone know how to tell by the VIN # if the truck was originally built as a cab/chassis or a pickup truck?
> Or is there some other tell-tale sign?
> I think the shorter truck I posted a picture of may have been a dually pickup, but other than the flatned being pretty short, I can't prove it.


Usually I have to get the vin then look it up on the net.

CarFax is also a must, thought I found an identical truck in Georgia to replace mine after the accident last year, checked CarFax and not only was it in three accidents one of them was a rollover so I passed on it.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

What did you end up getting to replace the one that was totaled?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/VIN_decode.htmTake a look at this.


Awesome, thanks Gearclash!!!,
Here's VIN of the reg cab flatbed 4WD
3B6MF3666YM209950

It was built as an "incomplete" vehicle, so it was a chassis. Has standard output Cummins. GVWR is between 10-14k lbs. I'm guessing it's like 12,000. Really need to know GCWR.


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## crhay (Jun 19, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> So back to the topic of the truck, does anyone know how to tell by the VIN # if the truck was originally built as a cab/chassis or a pickup truck?
> Or is there some other tell-tale sign?
> I think the shorter truck I posted a picture of may have been a dually pickup, but other than the flatned being pretty short, I can't prove it.


Not a 100% sure, but i thought truck that came with bed had slight arch in frame above the rear axle. Trucks that came cab chassis were all straight frame for easier mounting of flat, dump bed etc..


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, good ole hose pipe, never used to leave home without it.......especially with a 429 ford or worse yet like ARD mentioned a 460. We got caught once or twice, got our tails tore up.....still always had one in the trunk.


My 460 actually got better mileage than my 429. Wasn't the 429 the "Cobra Jet"? Or was that a 428? Haven't owned a gas truck in 25 years. Starting to forget. 
The '76 350 4WD 429 had little 15" snow tires on it and a divorced transfer case. Gas tank (bomb) behind the seat. Sucker was TOUGH though. Too bad she got cancer and died a slow ugly death.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

http://dodgeram.info/2001/towing-charts.html

More info.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> http://dodgeram.info/2001/towing-charts.htmlMore info.


Not liking the 20,000 GCWR. That ain't much....
Did they raise the GCWR in more recent years?

Do you have same VIN IDchart for more recent models?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

In the practical world the GCWR is somewhat irrelevant as these trucks are under rated. 20,000 wouldn't even bother my '99 2500 that much, let alone a 3500. Problem is in PA I understand that the max registerable weight comes directly from the mfr's published GCWR.

http://dodgeram.info/2004/load-tow/3500DRW.html

For the 2006 models, the last full year of the 5.9

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2006/docs/intro/vin.pdf

Vin breakdown, presumably for newer models.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> In the practical world the GCWR is somewhat irrelevant as these trucks are under rated. 20,000 wouldn't even bother my '99 2500 that much, let alone a 3500. Problem is in PA I understand that the max registerable weight comes directly from the mfr's published GCWR.http://dodgeram.info/2004/load-tow/3500DRW.htmlFor the 2006 models, the last full year of the 5.9http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2006/docs/intro/vin.pdfVin breakdown, presumably for newer models.


Correct. If you want to exceed manufacturer GCWR in PA you have to get a mechanic to sign a MV-41. Most will only agree to a few thousand more lbs.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here's my 2 pennies worth. A guy I know in western PA hauled all of his hay for quite a few years with a 2004 GM 3500 and a 14K axle rated trailer. I believe he is registered for 23,000. That's not so far off what a 2nd gen Ram 3500 could do. If you added an exhaust brake on a manual trans, and get a top of the line trailer brake controller combine with good trailer brakes (electric over hydraulic disc would be best) it might be easier to get a mechanic to sign off on a few thousand more on the GCVWR. Worth an ask any way. Put a 75 hp chip on it or 60hp and RLV 275 injectors and you would have something that will pull day after day with few problems and be a hoot to drive empty.

I have been driving the same 1999 Ram 2500 diesel since 2003. 5 speed manual, 3.54 axles. Totally stock except for 4" exhaust and a 60hp Van Aaken chip, and gauges. At that power level I have no cooling, clutch, or egt concerns, no matter how hard or long I pull it.


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