# Questions about my hay



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm on yr 3. I still don't know how my hay rates compared to others, because I'm kind of on my own I have no basis of comparison. 
However, today I got ahold of some hay from the BTO in my area. He had just dropped off a load of T/O mix at a horse operation where I cut hay (but they don't buy round bales). So I grabbed a couple 8-10" thick layers from a few small bales and put them in my truck. I took them over to my barn and laid them out on a sheet of plywood. I grabbed a couple random samples of hay from my round bales about the same size and compared them. 
I thought my hay looked greener and was softer. I thought my hay smelled better. His hay did have Timothy seed heads in it, but his hay looked browner, harder and containes as many stems as mine. 
I guess My question is, is naturally occurring hay made up of field grasses and a fair-good amount of orchard grass, too, properly baled "worth" just as much per bale as pure Timothy/orchard grass mix? 
If mine is softer and better looking/smelling hay, am I justified in asking for the same or even more?
Or is it worth less because it has less nutritional value because it is made up of a mixture of grasses?

I'm kind of frustrated cause I don't know how to market the hay and what price to ask. Real good 4x5 bales are getting $75-$80.
Also, what do I call the grass? field grass/orchard grass mix?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Buyers like timothy. If it's in there, it's almost always worth more, whether or not it's softer or coarser than than the other options. Meadow/common/blend/etc hay just isn't going to sell as well as cultivated varieties. If you would go to one of the auctions, you'd see most buyers choose cultivated varieties over common hay while probably seeing a few who don't seem to care either way. Feed value is going to vary more because of fertility and timeliness of harvest than crop species, but most grass hay buyers aren't looking at any analysis. They're looking at what they can see, and that's the type of grass.

In other words:
No
No
Yes
Mixed grass


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Grab a gallon zip lock bag of each and mail it to Cumberland Valley lab.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Perception. How does your potential customer view you and your product? Hard to change peoples mindset once it is made. There may be more prestige in telling your horsey friends that you import your feed from hundreds of miles away instead of the field down the lane.

In reality wild grasses made early may test better than a domestic mix. I think wild mixes, from my area anyway, do have a pleasant aroma. Livestock may prefer them.....but the owner pays the bills.

Definitely call it an orchard mix, unless you can find some timothy heads in it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Funny how customers turn horses out day after day into pastures where they eat mixed grasses identical to what I sell. Their horses fill up on those mixed grasses all day. But when it comes time to buy hay in a bale, they want something different.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Because there were timothy seed heads in his hay, it sounds like it was cut waaaay late. Timothy's peak maturity is about June 15th, so my guess is that his hay was cut sometime well after June 15th.

Examine the seed heads--if they are in the milk stage, that would be an excellent cut for timothy, but 2-3 weeks late for OG. If seeds are already formed, it is well past prime for timothy and long gone for OG.

If you're really curious, spend the $10 or so to get a sample tested.

Ralph


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Funny how customers turn horses out day after day into pastures where they eat mixed grasses identical to what I sell. Their horses fill up on those mixed grasses all day. But when it comes time to buy hay in a bale, they want something different.


Most of them don't even know that it's dried grass.There is a huge amount of misconception and mythology in the horsey world. What are facts to you are not facts to them and often the most successful guy is nothing more than a good salesman.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

What people think their animals need and what they actually need are usually two different things.

Sometimes its a hard sell to break the old "round bales will kill a horse" mindset.

I had a guy that bought 7 round bales a week from me for years to feed his herd of hay burners, never heard of one dying from a round bale.

What another Amishman that must of had 30 pregnant miniature nags running around that winter, wanted nice soft 3rd or fourth cutting grassy round bales.

The Amish around here prefer good first cutting for their horses when they can get it, have a vet buying round bales from me now for his 20 embryo transfer brood mares that wants the best round bales I have and doesn't care about the price&#8230;.

Any buyer can be a fickle thing while their animals don't care much usually.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

If you can identify any of the grasses in the mix, it will help you sell a bit. Even if you only know one or two, and they are ok for horses, you can point them out to the buyer.

Also it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a test done.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

I would say there is no one answer . Why does one person buy right guard and another buy old spice . As others have said having some tested might help .

I've found if people like your hay they will spread the word , and if they don't then it's best to just move on to the next person . You can't force someone to like your hay or buy from you .


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't know that the test will really do much for JD's customers. I bet most of his customers wouldn't understand anything on the analysis.

My guess is its all image and sales and less to nothing todo about how the hay would test.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

PaMike said:


> I don't know that the test will really do much for JD's customers. I bet most of his customers wouldn't understand anything on the analysis.
> 
> My guess is its all image and sales and less to nothing todo about how the hay would test.


I agree, all image.

The horse owners like Timothy because of that seedhead. It's easy to identify so they know what they're getting. Most (not all) don't know what OG, Bromegrass, or others look like.

That native grass is just that fine grass. We make a bunch of it and just peddle is as "Mixed Grass"...some people love it for feeding, some people hate it.

I say it's worth less that cultivated varieties. Hard to get any bale weight and takes too much ground just to make a bale compared to a cultivated variety.

Mushroom houses scream "bloody murder" when they get a whole load of that fine grass....it doesn't have the big stems like Tim or OG to hold in moisture once they soak it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaCustomBaler said:


> I agree, all image.
> 
> The horse owners like Timothy because of that seedhead. It's easy to identify so they know what they're getting. Most (not all) don't know what OG, Bromegrass, or others look like.
> 
> ...


Yeah the mushroom growers I sell to love reeds canary grass. Big stems and big leafs.

I don't really know what the "fine" grasses are I have. Is it rye? Is it fescue? Is it bluegrass? It looks like a stem about the thinness of "bell wire" and it has a little seed head on it. Someone told me they actually call it "wire grass". Is it any good for feed value??
I know exactly what orchard grass is because I planted it along edges of fields that I restores and it grows naturally in parts of my fields.

I MUST no till drill my fields late this summer. It's not an option anymore. I need to boost my O grass content higher.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I've never tested my wild meadows but I know the animals sure do love it. Up here wild is usually a type of brome orchard clover and fescue mix. There is also a fair amount of birdsfoot in some fields. Im sure it was planted there at some point but after 30+ years I'll call it wild. It doesn't yield the best but its hardy. Had some homesteaders buy some a couple years ago and that's all they want now. They claim to have cut there grain down to next to nothing. Of course, I do try my best to get it at peak like we all do. I should test it just to satisfy my curiosity. It does have a few weeds and that gets a slight discount but other than that I don't tweak the price too much either way. Sometimes the critters are your best advocates. Saved the expense of me ripping that 60 acres up. Regarding the timothy heads, It pains me to watch nice hay go past prime so some uneducated city slicker know it all with a boarded Arabian can tell its timothy. Yeesh

Good luck to you and all the Haytalkers this year. I think its going to be a unique season with a lot of long mid winter sales hauls.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah the mushroom growers I sell to love reeds canary grass. Big stems and big leafs.
> 
> I don't really know what the "fine" grasses are I have. Is it rye? Is it fescue? Is it bluegrass? It looks like a stem about the thinness of "bell wire" and it has a little seed head on it. Someone told me they actually call it "wire grass". Is it any good for feed value??
> I know exactly what orchard grass is because I planted it along edges of fields that I restores and it grows naturally in parts of my fields.
> ...


I would think it would be some perennial ryegrass, bluegrass, and some endophyte fescue possibly.

It has feed value, but minimal. I always considered the fine grass as "gut fill".

But, it sure beats eating snow balls in the winter


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, so its not worth much, has minimal feed value, but its somewhat better than eating snowballs. lol

I feel so good about what I'm growing!

I just came back after stopping by local competitors fields and they look exactly the same. About 90% of all local grazing animals, including the expensive horses I'm looking at right now seem to be content to eat the same "hay" I will be cutting in the field right next to them, but the guy advertising the same stuff, burned brown with a few timothy heads gets $8.50 per small square. lol


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> OK, so its not worth much, has minimal feed value, but its somewhat better than eating snowballs. lol
> 
> I feel so good about what I'm growing!


Sorry mate. Don't feel bad, I have fields with the same stuff too.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Grazing and hay are different.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Unfortunately not many horse owners know "Good Hay" They go by what they read in horse magazines and these are slanted toward "Horse Show"people who can tell a good looking horse but not a good horse! I'm a stickler for good hay and what got me into it many many years ago was the fact that I couldn't find good hay, what I could find as horse hay I wouldn't have used as dog bedding and what I considered good hay they told me was for dairy cows, so bought my own implements. Started with a cockshutt baler, slow but made great bales dense a bricklike in shape, moved to a JD 14T that was faster, but not nearly as good as a balemaker, this is when I 1st saw the Hesston inline and it made so much sense to me, (but couldn't afford it) and I thought that they would sell like hotcakes, not the case, farmers being conservatives wouldn.t switch ( so the dealer told me) had a JD Parallel bars rake (3pth) I hiredout the fast and machinewise expensive task (haybine plowing) and went to it. I had alfalfa and birdsfoot (not in the same field) and great hay! in those days birdsfoot trefoil was relatively new and all farmers were discouraging me from planting it, but my first try I got 160 bales per acre mixed with timothy. That field is still producing, there are some birdsfoot stands that are still producing after 50 yrs. IMHO this legume is far underused


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

I guess I look at things differently. I don't really care if horse owners know what "good" hay is. My job as a business owner is to identify what the market wants and needs and provide that at a price that is high enough to be profitable to me and not to high that the market will not bear it. If the market in your location wants overripe timothy, then grow overripe timothy and reap the rewards. If you are not willing to grow what the market wants, then you will have to accept the price that the market will bear for that product, whether you feel it is better or not.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

One thing that always sells is COLOUR the greener the better, so if all you care is producing what will sell that's what I recommend. You'll never go wrong.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

OhioHay said:


> I guess I look at things differently. I don't really care if horse owners know what "good" hay is. My job as a business owner is to identify what the market wants and needs and provide that at a price that is high enough to be profitable to me and not to high that the market will not bear it. If the market in your location wants overripe timothy, then grow overripe timothy and reap the rewards. If you are not willing to grow what the market wants, then you will have to accept the price that the market will bear for that product, whether you feel it is better or not.


Sadly, this is true in this day and age...

Everybody nowdays "knows better", even when they don't... and heaven forbid they listen to anybody that actually knows something.

Best to just roll with it...

Later! OL JR


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I rolled 2 fields and got them stored in barn. After cutting them, I'd say they are about 40-50% orchard grass and the rest are various mixed grasses JD clover. No weeds. 
I think it's good feed. Pure O grass? No. Decent feed? I think so. 
This September, I will drill in new O grass/Tim where needed. I'm really looking forward to it. Gotta drown out the thin wiry grasses.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I rolled 2 fields and got them stored in barn. After cutting them, I'd say they are about 40-50% orchard grass and the rest are various mixed grasses JD clover. No weeds.
> I think it's good feed. Pure O grass? No. Decent feed? I think so.
> This September, I will drill in new O grass/Tim where needed. I'm really looking forward to it. Gotta drown out the thin wiry grasses.


Good luck. Those thin grasses are there because they're competitive. Drowning is unlikely.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> Good luck. Those thin grasses are there because they're competitive. Drowning is unlikely.


Touche. I tried before without any luck. I leave them go, or burn down and start a new stand later if allowable.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

There is only 1 way tried and true: GOATS ! put a temp fence around the area put in 2 goats and voila ecological, green, eco friendly, whatever one wants to call it but above all efficient as they will pull the plants by the roots.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

I think Ohiohay is dead on . You have to sell what your local market wants . Or find a market .At the price they are willing to pay , if it works for you .

When I first started all I wanted to do was alfalfa / orchard grass . Then I found out there's a good demand for good clean grass hay , weather it's orchard or mixed grass . The one grass I myself have not had much luck selling is timothy / alfalfa . So last year I killed of a 6 acre spot and just put a newer type fescue grass that suppose to be this company's best grass hay .

Junk hay has a market too . I guess you guys out east have the mushroom growers , I have some cattle also have a neighbor that like my junk small squares for couple dollars a bale for his cattle .


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

PaMike said:


> I don't know that the test will really do much for JD's customers. I bet most of his customers wouldn't understand anything on the analysis.
> 
> My guess is its all image and sales and less to nothing todo about how the hay would test.


Your right a lot of it is imagine, but if the seller can toss out the numbers and back them with the paper, and couple of interesting tidbits about his hay it makes him seem more knowledgeable of the product he's selling... Would you rather buy from some one that just sits there with a stupid smile on his face when asked about his product or some one that can tell you about the product he's selling, I'll take the later even if the first has a better product, because the second took the time to at least learn some thing about his product and can pass on the information to the customer, just my humble opinion.....Knowledge is power, be passionate about what your selling if you believe in it others will too


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaCustomBaler said:


> Touche. I tried before without any luck. I leave them go, or burn down and start a new stand later if allowable.


Maybe that's what it will require. I see local BTOs doing that all over the place. Once the field is burned and planted with O/T, how long will it stay "pure", before the competitors come back? I would spray for broadleaf weeds, but I mean the undesirable grasses,


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Chessiedog said:


> I think Ohiohay is dead on . You have to sell what your local market wants . Or find a market .At the price they are willing to pay , if it works for you .
> 
> When I first started all I wanted to do was alfalfa / orchard grass . Then I found out there's a good demand for good clean grass hay , weather it's orchard or mixed grass . The one grass I myself have not had much luck selling is timothy / alfalfa . So last year I killed of a 6 acre spot and just put a newer type fescue grass that suppose to be this company's best grass hay .
> 
> Junk hay has a market too . I guess you guys out east have the mushroom growers , I have some cattle also have a neighbor that like my junk small squares for couple dollars a bale for his cattle .


Seems like the high end crowd wants O/Tim, but there is a group that seems to want naturally occuring mixed grasses, too.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

I can't say Jd , I've sent A/O to Florida and Kentucky thoroughbred farms and boarding stables , but I can say I have never sent my timothy /alfalfa any where . I'm not saying others don't , Just saying I'VE NEVER HAD ANY LUCK WITH IT .

Not sure what the high end crowd is . I was getting about 240 a ton out of the barn on second and third cutting last year , and that works for me . I'm sure there are others get more some less .


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Maybe that's what it will require. I see local BTOs doing that all over the place. Once the field is burned and planted with O/T, how long will it stay "pure", before the competitors come back? I would spray for broadleaf weeds, but I mean the undesirable grasses,


We see fields lasting around 5-10 years before the fine grasses start getting a heavy concentration.

Had a old timothy field (probably planted in '05) that we burned down and replanted with straight Timothy last fall. It's less than ideal trying to work up that old sod, but we needed it to be back into hay quickly.


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