# Whats a fair asking price for a 900lb bale of grass hay



## JD3430

I wanted to do this as a poll, but cant figure out how to enable the poll function.
So anyhow, *what is a fair price in your area for a 900 lb roll of typical average grass hay? *(no delivery) 
Lets say you pay $200/ton for hay, then a 900lb roll would be 10c. /lb or $90/roll.

What would you pay? $90, $80, $70, $60, $50????
Thanks.


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## somedevildawg

Down here you might get 50 for that roll, exactly why I don't roll that way.....pun intended


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## JD3430

So you would pay $120/ton for typical grass hay? (.06/lb)
When you say you don't roll that way, how do you do it?


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## mlappin

Right now in our area just about any round bale is worth $100. Can't even buy junk hay reasonable, I've been looking for some for a few other people. Even some rank CRP went for 180/ton a few weeks ago.


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## Teslan

A fair price here right now is about $130 a large 900 lb square bale. Or $11 for 14 small squares which should be about 900 lbs. People are bringing in rounds from out of state asking crazy high prices. I'm not sure they are selling them though. If I had rounds though I don't think I could get much more then $100 bales. Around here the price differs depending on the type of bale. Even the 3 sizes of large squares bring different prices. 3x3 and 3x4 bring more per pound then a 4x4 bale. Mostly because more people can handle a 3x3 then a 4x4. 2-3 guys can push a 3x3 off a truck and wrestle it where they want it.


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## FarmerCline

I guess it depends on where you live. Around here you are doing good to get $35 for a 4 by 5 roll of fescue regardless of what the bale weighs. Anything other than fescue well good luck selling it.


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## somedevildawg

Here's the way it works for me here, if I bale let's say a 10ac field, the most I'm going to get is 4-5 rolls per acre, bringing 40-50 bucks around 200.00 per acre. Now I only do squares, 70 avg bales per acre x 6.25 about 400 per acre. Same input costs, that's why I don't roll that way, could never profit, just spun wheels, down here, everyone that has a tractor has a roller.....sometimes ya can't give em away...


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## JD3430

I'm getting about $70/roll.
I thought that was pretty decent, but it turns out after reading and crunching the true costs, that needs to increase. Have one customer that pays $80, which is really where I'd like to be.
Hard to believe your input costs are the same. I would think the storage, time & labor components to sm squares would be a lot higher. I agree sm squares bring more money, but the labor, storage and time costs to deal with them cuts all of the extra profit out for ME.

I find the best thing I can do for sales beyond growing food hay, is show traditional sm square buyers that round bales are not such a big problem to feed their animals.


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## hay wilson in TX

You should receive $115 for that bale, IF it is 12% CP & IF it is 100 RFV. That should cover your harvesting cost, plus the value of the fertility in the bale, plus something for the land.

I doubt if anyone HERE would pay $50 for that bale. Much of the reason for that is most people with livestock allow their animals to waste close to half of what is offered to them. For a Cow Calf operator to make any money feeding hay they could not pay more than $30 for that bale.

So for the casual cowman you might as well bale up the bar ditch and road side, cans and plastic and all.

Unless you are hurting for cash flow and do not mind loosing assets at a slow rate.


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## Tim/South

I sold a few rolls to a friend of a friend for $40. The price of $30 non fertilized pasture grass sets the tone around here. This has caused those with good hay to cut down on the size and density. That is the only way they can get $120/ton.

Alabama and Mississippi made a lot of hay last year. Some nice Bermuda 5x5 rolls, stored inside, sold for $25 per roll. I was temped to buy it because I can not grow and bale it for that.


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## JD3430

So what I can assume is that
Hay is a regional, possibly even local commodity and shipping plays a big role in price

In my area and MLappin's area, hay sells for double what some of the prices are I have read in this thread.
I'm getting calls for hay, but I'm sold out. I bet I could get 70+ for a 900lb roll, but it would depend on the buyer.


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## swmnhay

JD3430 said:


> So what I can assume is that
> Hay is a regional, possibly even local commodity and shipping plays a big role in price
> 
> In my area and MLappin's area, hay sells for double what some of the prices are I have read in this thread.
> I'm getting calls for hay, but I'm sold out. I bet I could get 70+ for a 900lb roll, but it would depend on the buyer.


It's definatly a regional market.Supply and demand causing price swings.Trucking adds cost to hay in a hurry.

Grass hay in rds here is around 180 ton for avg grass hay =$81 for 900 lb bale
$125 for junk hay to $225 for nice grass hay.


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## JD3430

So far we have prices ranging from $25 to $81 per 900lb bale.
That's freakin crazy.....

Only seemingly common theme is the further north, the higher the price???


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## Nitram

Not really directional its supply and demand. The biggest factor is moisture received in how it affected the growing season


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## somedevildawg

Tim/South said:


> I sold a few rolls to a friend of a friend for $40. The price of $30 non fertilized pasture grass sets the tone around here. This has caused those with good hay to cut down on the size and density. That is the only way they can get $120/ton.
> 
> Alabama and Mississippi made a lot of hay last year. Some nice Bermuda 5x5 rolls, stored inside, sold for $25 per roll. I was temped to buy it because I can not grow and bale it for that.


Same here, we baled peanut hay this year, shoulda left it and bought from others at 20 a bale.......it's worth more than that left in the ground! 
In so far as the input costs on hay, I was referring to the reoccurring input costs, labor is basically the same for me, with bale bandit it's a two man operation, I did have to spend a good bit of capital on bandit, barns, flatbeds, tarps, misc. stuff...
The one thing that was problematic for me was, the people who produce crappy hay can sell to the round buyer and get away with it, set the market price, those people don't set the market price for squares because they don't produce squares.....at least in any quantity or quality...


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## JD3430

Man that's unreal. I get $110 a ton selling below average hay to the mushroom guys.
My goal would be like $150/ton to livestock owners.....
Sounds like I may have my sights set too high.
All I have is natural field grasses, orchard grass, fescues, reed canary. I keep the weeds sprayed and fertilize. That's about all I have. No real super high octane stuff of alfalfa.


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## somedevildawg

I like that "super high octane" may borrow that one from you....next time one of my horsey folks starts asking for some T/A....I'll tell em I ain't got no "super high octane" just the raglar.....


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## Tim/South

somedevildawg said:


> Same here, we baled peanut hay this year, shoulda left it and bought from others at 20 a bale.......it's worth more than that left in the ground!
> In so far as the input costs on hay, I was referring to the reoccurring input costs, labor is basically the same for me, with bale bandit it's a two man operation, I did have to spend a good bit of capital on bandit, barns, flatbeds, tarps, misc. stuff...
> *The one thing that was problematic for me was, the people who produce crappy hay can sell to the round buyer and get away with it, set the market price, those people don't set the market price for squares because they don't produce squares.....at least in any quantity or quality...*


Same here with the square bales. People are not going to the trouble to square something they can not get premium money for.
The exception being the few who square bale reclamation hay. The good part for them is the reclamation guys is paid buy the bale he blows or steaks out. They want a 32 inch bale that weighs 25 lbs.

You can hide a lot of junk in a round bale, especially with net wrap.
Not so with squares. The customer knows the density and pretty much the quality.


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## JD3430

I don't mean to imply I only grow below average hay. I do hay plots of nice hay, too. Being new in the business has forced me to take all the fields I can get to build up a base. Some of those fields have less than spectacular hay when you first take them on. Therefore they go to mushroom hay until I can get the quality up. 
I would like to sell my better hay for $150 or more per ton. That would be a good goal for my costs. I pay no land rent. Just equip payments, fuel, fert, insurance, etc. and a little sumptin-sumptin for me
The square bale buyers in my area are, for the most part, some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Girls with big ford diesel trucks, but hats, and lots of daddy money. Round bale buyers are usually true cattlemen or dairy farmers and they will look inside a bale, probe it, etc to get an idea of the quality. 
I realize all our areas have different people, situations and supply/demand.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> I don't mean to imply I only grow below average hay. I do hay plots of nice hay, too. Being new in the business has forced me to take all the fields I can get to build up a base. Some of those fields have less than spectacular hay when you first take them on. Therefore they go to mushroom hay until I can get the quality up.
> I would like to sell my better hay for $150 or more per ton. That would be a good goal for my costs. I pay no land rent. Just equip payments, fuel, fert, insurance, etc. and a little sumptin-sumptin for me
> The square bale buyers in my area are, for the most part, some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Girls with big ford diesel trucks, but hats, and lots of daddy money. Round bale buyers are usually true cattlemen or dairy farmers and they will look inside a bale, probe it, etc to get an idea of the quality.
> I realize all our areas have different people, situations and supply/demand.


Right now I'm getting roughly $200/ton for my cheapest hay which is good enough for horses. 1st cutting made on time.

Rest of my hay has all been in the $250-$300 a ton for round bales at the auctions or roughly starting at $120/bale since they are just a tad under thousand pounders if you get them yourself. I haven't delivered a bale yet privately. Averaging so far this year $271/ton.

In a normal year I won't sell a 800lb round bale for less than $45/bale, more on the earlier cut first cutting. If I can't get $40/bale for it I'll hold it back and feed it to the walking steaks. Again for that $45/bale YOU come and get it. Price goes up if I have to deliver and I also charge mileage. Since the messiah took office the price for delivery has gone up to $3 a loaded mile from the time I leave the driveway. Used to charge around $2.50 a mile and the first ten miles was free, but road fuel was cheaper back in the day.


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## jmitch

What is the deal for the mushroom buyers in Pa? People around Northern Va are tight lipped about it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> I don't mean to imply I only grow below average hay. I do hay plots of nice hay, too. Being new in the business has forced me to take all the fields I can get to build up a base. Some of those fields have less than spectacular hay when you first take them on. Therefore they go to mushroom hay until I can get the quality up.
> I would like to sell my better hay for $150 or more per ton. That would be a good goal for my costs. I pay no land rent. Just equip payments, fuel, fert, insurance, etc. and a little sumptin-sumptin for me
> The square bale buyers in my area are, for the most part, some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Girls with big ford diesel trucks, but hats, and lots of daddy money. Round bale buyers are usually true cattlemen or dairy farmers and they will look inside a bale, probe it, etc to get an idea of the quality.
> I realize all our areas have different people, situations and supply/demand.


Doesn't matter jd at the end of the day it only matters that you made money and had fun doing it....I like making hay, it's a challenge and I like challenges, it's also the least profitable of all the business ventures I've had with the largest expenditure of capital....







. 
Fact is, if I ain't gettn 160 a ton, I'm probably loosing money, I prefer not to look close enough so as not to see....
I had to shift my operation to squares in order to attain those goals. The cattleman or dairyman has a set amount he will pay for forage and his price and my price just don't jive, prolly because the price has been set by the round bale market. Most marginal land around here is hay land, with row crops doing as well as they have been, we could see more and more hay land taken up with row crops here, I'm all for that, prolly start baling ditches around here at that point, Mc D's, Krystal, and lottery tickets included at no charge.....


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## JD3430

mlappin said:


> *Right now I'm getting roughly $200/ton for my cheapest hay which is good enough for horses. *1st cutting made on time.
> 
> Rest of my hay has all been in the $250-$300 a ton for round bales at the auctions or roughly starting at $120/bale since they are just a tad under thousand pounders if you get them yourself. I haven't delivered a bale yet privately. Averaging so far this year $271/ton.
> 
> In a normal year I won't sell a 800lb round bale for less than $45/bale, more on the earlier cut first cutting. If I can't get $40/bale for it I'll hold it back and feed it to the walking steaks. Again for that $45/bale YOU come and get it. Price goes up if I have to deliver and I also charge mileage. Since the messiah took office the price for delivery has gone up to $3 a loaded mile from the time I leave the driveway. Used to charge around $2.50 a mile and the first ten miles was free, but road fuel was cheaper back in the day.


So the higher prices you are getting now are artificially high due to a hay shortage?
I believe my "mid grade" hay is good enough for horses. My best is most definately good enough and my worst is mushroom or walking steak hay.


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## Tim/South

JD, We know you well enough that you make some good hay. I am betting you build a good solid house as well. 
I also have some "new to me" hay ground that is still a work in the process. Baling hay off the farm is new to me. We spent many years baling top quality Bermuda for the horse market. 
As times changed here, I moved in a different direction and decided to go back into momma cows. In doing so I got educated on the hay practiced of others.
I learned that there are people out there putting a string around anything and calling it hay. I bought some of that junk the last two years as I did not have the ground to make all the hay I needed as I added cows. This forced me to change gears and find fields off the farm. I now make enough hay to be in the position to sell some to generate cash flow. I still have to compete with the bottom dwellers.
If those guys had half the ambition to make good hay that you did then they would not be in the $30 hay business. 
You have goals and work toward reaching those goals and that is impressive. I always enjoy reading your posts and following your mind set.


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## Lazy J

I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".

If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.

For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".

Jim


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## Lazy J

JD3430 said:


> I believe my "mid grade" hay is good enough for horses. My best is most definately good enough and my worst is mushroom or walking steak hay.


JD,

How do you know that your mid grade hay is "good enough" for horses? Do you test your hay?

I am a Livestock Nutritionist by training, I work primarily with pigs, so my view on hay is as a feedstuff to meet specific nurtional needs for a specific animal.

When we sell hay off the farm we test every lot of hay we produce, this way I can know they quality of the hay and can provide the type of hay to meet a customer's needs. Of course this analysis is coupled with the physical attibutes of the hay too.

The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.

Jim


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## JD3430

Lazy J said:


> I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".
> 
> If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.
> 
> For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".
> 
> Jim


Yes I agree that is why I made sure to say *900lb *bale.
It would be great if you could somehow weigh each bale for customer and prove to them what they're getting per bale without a lot of expenditure.


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## JD3430

Lazy J said:


> JD,
> 
> How do you know that your mid grade hay is "good enough" for horses? Do you test your hay?
> 
> I am a Livestock Nutritionist by training, I work primarily with pigs, so my view on hay is as a feedstuff to meet specific nurtional needs for a specific animal.
> 
> When we sell hay off the farm we test every lot of hay we produce, this way I can know they quality of the hay and can provide the type of hay to meet a customer's needs. Of course this analysis is coupled with the physical attibutes of the hay too.
> 
> The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.
> 
> Jim


Guilty as charged. I really dont know professor. I go by what feedback I get from customer and what I am putting in the bale in terms of lack of weeds and testing my bales for moisture. Would like to be able to get real time prompt test results so I can know what nutrition levels I'm selling, too.


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## swmnhay

_


Lazy J said:



I think the biggest issue we have in the hay industry is one of weight. For the most part we have absolutely NO idea what a "bale" weighs and base most of our decisions on "well is should weigh X".

If you have a set price for a unit of weight of hay, say $200/ton, and you know the weight of the bale or average bale weight, then pricing one bale of hay is a simple algebra. However if the weight of the bale is unknown then all bets are off and one side of the buying equation is probably not being treated fairly.

For this reason I HATE selling by the "bale". Hay selling is the only part of production ag where most of the sales are based on an erroneus unit of measure, the notorious "bale".

Jim

Click to expand...

__I sell everything by the ton.Most of the hay in this area is sold by the ton._

_The few that are selling by the bale are normally a smaller baler.The bales are not tight.And very good chance it doesn't wiegh as much as they claim.But the person buying it can't figure out they are getting the short end of the deal.All they look at is bale price.They obviously were not very good at arithmetic.Don't own or know how to use a calculator._

_Sometimes I just scratch my head that some of these people just can't figure it out.You have to show them on paper.







_


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## JD3430

Tim/South said:


> JD, We know you well enough that you make some good hay. I am betting you build a good solid house as well.
> I also have some "new to me" hay ground that is still a work in the process. Baling hay off the farm is new to me. We spent many years baling top quality Bermuda for the horse market.
> As times changed here, I moved in a different direction and decided to go back into momma cows. In doing so I got educated on the hay practiced of others.
> I learned that there are people out there putting a string around anything and calling it hay. I bought some of that junk the last two years as I did not have the ground to make all the hay I needed as I added cows. This forced me to change gears and find fields off the farm. I now make enough hay to be in the position to sell some to generate cash flow. I still have to compete with the bottom dwellers.
> If those guys had half the ambition to make good hay that you did then they would not be in the $30 hay business.
> You have goals and work toward reaching those goals and that is impressive. I always enjoy reading your posts and following your mind set.


Tim, thanks. The feeling is mutual. You and the other guys have been my mentors all along with my own ambition & determination.
I would love to become a full time hay farmer. I think I already am in my heart.
I dont want to grow the really pristine hay (yet). I dont think it would pay as good of a profit as good to very good hay. I dont have the knowledge and time to make the really great stuff.
My short term goal is to supply the small herd owner (5-25 head) with hay. I think that fits my ability right now. Not junk hay with trash in it, just good solid hay 10-50 rolls at a time. I haven't got a clue how farm alfalfa, plant new stands yet. (I could probably do it, but I usually underestimate my abilities-would love to try it).
Maybe my goals will change, but I'm a one man band with my 13 yr old boy helping a little. I just cant do the small squares and the headaches associated with them. I will try my best to put good hay in those rolls.
Thanks for your words of encouragement.


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## rjmoses

Lazy J said:


> JD,
> 
> The term "Horse Hay" is the biggest falacy used in the hay market today.
> 
> Jim


Boy, do I agree with this! Most "horse hay" buyers are looking for green color only. I tell my customers that's why some people add green food coloring to their propionic acid. That really gets their attention! The shocked look is priceless.

IMHO, horse quality hay depends on what the horse is doing. My main horse gets 2-4 hours work 5-6 days/week. And a lot of it is at the trot/canter--she gets 5-8 lbs alfalfa, rest grass.. My injured horse stands around looking handsome all day--he gets the poorest quality hay I have--keeps his mind and mouth busy.

Ralph


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## JD3430

Yeah I guess I should be using a numerical scale of quality (like 1 through 10), not one determined by the animal consuming it. lol


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## Nitram

As a small timer cow/calf operation what I look for is clean&tight bale with a good aroma when I pull some from inside. I feed rounds exclusively. I don't have the time to throw idiot bricks every day! As a producer I can put up rounds efficiently and keep my costs down as long as I put it up proper the girls do very well. Some insight to your customers JD. Hope it helps. Martin


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## vhaby

How much can one afford to lose on hay?

Coastal bermudagrass yields are from research plots where there was no forage loss in the harvest process. Fertilizer prices and spreading are what is currently charged in this region.

Soil test recommendation suggests 190 lb 21-8-17/ac (This is low depending on soil test results)

Blend made from Urea (46-0-0), DAP (18-46-0), & Potash (0-0-60)

Prices current as of Feb. 12, 2013
46- 0-0 @ $0.63/lb of N
18-46-0 @ $0.63/lb of N and $0.46/lb P2O5
0- 0-60 @ $0.51/lb of K2O
Spreading cost @ $5.00/ac
Contracted haying cost is $25/bale and assume 1,000 bale (Price may be higher than if you do your own hay???)

40 lb N, 15 lb P2O5, & 34 lb K2O + spreading = $54.44/acre

If applied for five cuttings, fertilizer cost is $272.20 + $307.73 haying cost or a total of $579.93/ac to produce 6.15 tons of hay = $94.30/ton for low nutritive value hay.

Double the fertilizer to 80-30-68 lb/ac/cutting for five cuttings to increase hay yield to 7.57 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $544.40; Haying cost = $378.35 for cost of production = $922.75/ac. Break even price for hay = $121.94/ton.

Tripling the fertilizer to 120-45-102 lb/cutting plus haying cost increases hay yield to 7.92 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $816.60; Haying cost = $396.10 for cost of production = $1,212.70/ac. Break even price for hay = $153.08/ton.

The values for break even price don't include sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and micronutrients contained in the hay.

Limestone, land and equipment ownership, and hay handling costs also are not included in this price


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## JD3430

yikes!


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## jdm13

vhaby said:


> How much can one afford to lose on hay?
> 
> Coastal bermudagrass yields are from research plots where there was no forage loss in the harvest process. Fertilizer prices and spreading are what is currently charged in this region.
> 
> Soil test recommendation suggests 190 lb 21-8-17/ac (This is low depending on soil test results)
> 
> Blend made from Urea (46-0-0), DAP (18-46-0), & Potash (0-0-60)
> 
> Prices current as of Feb. 12, 2013
> 46- 0-0 @ $0.63/lb of N
> 18-46-0 @ $0.63/lb of N and $0.46/lb P2O5
> 0- 0-60 @ $0.51/lb of K2O
> Spreading cost @ $5.00/ac
> Contracted haying cost is $25/bale and assume 1,000 bale (Price may be higher than if you do your own hay???)
> 
> 40 lb N, 15 lb P2O5, & 34 lb K2O + spreading = $54.44/acre
> 
> If applied for five cuttings, fertilizer cost is $272.20 + $307.73 haying cost or a total of $579.93/ac to produce 6.15 tons of hay = $94.30/ton for low nutritive value hay.
> 
> Double the fertilizer to 80-30-68 lb/ac/cutting for five cuttings to increase hay yield to 7.57 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $544.40; Haying cost = $378.35 for cost of production = $922.75/ac. Break even price for hay = $121.94/ton.
> 
> Tripling the fertilizer to 120-45-102 lb/cutting plus haying cost increases hay yield to 7.92 t/ac- Fertilizer cost = $816.60; Haying cost = $396.10 for cost of production = $1,212.70/ac. Break even price for hay = $153.08/ton.
> 
> The values for break even price don't include sulfur, magnesium, calcium, and micronutrients contained in the hay.
> 
> Limestone, land and equipment ownership, and hay handling costs also are not included in this price


must you do this to us i already look at these guys and wished i lived in an area where we could think about getting $150 a ton the only way i am getting $100 a ton for my tiffton 44 or sumrall007 4 x 5 round bales net wrapped well fert and sprayed no weeds not a drop of rain baled at 10-14% moisture put in a barn as soon as possible is if everyone else is out of hay and the consumer has no where else to turn but here in central ms the consumer could care less what they are getting


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## SVFHAY

Hey 34, what's a "but hat"?


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## Canderson012

Plain old Jane hay like that is $40 tops unless demand is up very high.


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## JD3430

SVFHAY said:


> Hey 34, what's a "but hat"?


Butt Hat = Tattoo on the small of the back above the butt cheeks found commonly on the adolescent to cougar-aged female human species.


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## JD3430

Canderson012 said:


> Plain old Jane hay like that is $40 tops unless demand is up very high.


It must be because you guys have a longer growing season, therefore more hay, therefore more supply and ultimately lower prices.
Trucking it all the way up to me over the mason/dixon line would be too costly and take the cost of your low price hay up to what we can charge for it up here in yankee country.
Maybe my "4 season" enviroment combined with disappearing farmland will finally work to my advantage????? That would be nice because I HATE cold windy winter weather.


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## Tim/South

JD3430 said:


> It must be because you guys have a longer growing season, therefore more hay, therefore more supply and ultimately lower prices.


The longer growing season also translates into a shorter feeding season. The ability to produce more hay combined with a fairly short feeding season does not seem fair.


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## Canderson012

I don't know much about dairys and cattle operations but we've only had a few hard freezes. If the pasture isn't being super overgrazed I don't see how people in GA are burning through a whole lot of bales. Seeing plenty of white hay tarps still full around the state. Shipping it North and West is our best bet I guess.


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## SVFHAY

JD3430 said:


> Butt Hat = Tattoo on the small of the back above the butt cheeks found commonly on the adolescent to cougar-aged female human species.


Ahh, thanks. I thought the term was tramp stamp. Hard for an old guy to keep with slang.


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## JD3430

If you shipped 20 tons of rolled hay (say 40 1,000lb rolls) 1,000 miles, it would cost about $2,500 ($2.50/loaded mile). That would add approximately $63 per bale in shipping.
If I sell for $75/round bale, someone 1,000 miles away would have to sell for $12/bale to be at a comparable price.

I cant see how shipping hay much more than a few hundred miles would enable the seller to remain competitive.
I might be off on my math-just a crude calculation....


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## JD3430

SVFHAY said:


> Ahh, thanks. I thought the term was tramp stamp. Hard for an old guy to keep with slang.


No you're good.....tramp stamp works, too.


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## dubltrubl

Dr. Haby,
Your calculations are very close to what we have discovered regarding costs. We're actually nearly identical to your second scenerio. What's really frustratiing is there is no way we can reliably profit on round bales in our area due to the local pricing as several have stated earlier. This is why we're moving away from making as many rounds, and going to more squares. The present market in this area will usually only let us get about $100/t on rounds, but squares will let us double that at least. Just makes little to no sense, because it's the same hay, from the same field, given the same care and feeding. As a result, we're more than doubling our storage capacity now, and will only plan on rounding enough to fill requests. I should have listened to my old cousins advice from years ago, ("build enough barn!"). Instead I lent too much credence to local advice and jumped into the round bale market too. I enjoy making round bales, but not enough to keep losing money at it!
JD3430,
In our area a typical price would be about $40/bale, but then again, if your making as good of hay as you state, that's NOT a fair price. Roughly you should be charging about double that for it to be fair. Fair in my opinion is a price where the seller can make a smidgen of profit, and the buyer gets a good value for his/her dollar.
Regards,
Steve


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## JD3430

Thats why I think $80/900lb bale is more than fair. A 900lb round bale contains 18 50 lb square bales when measured by weight.
If I were to charge only $4.50/bale, that works out to $80/ bale. ($4.50 x 18= $81).
I am conceeding that customer cannot handle round bales as easily, hence the lower price compared to buying $5 + small squares.
$80 seems more than fair if the quality is equal to square baled hay. However, I would be willing to charge less for less convenience to customer, but since there's less handling on my end, I can lower my price to make that price work.

That would work out to $180/ton.

I think both sides (square vs. round) could present their cases well. I live in a unique area where I can sell all the round bales I want at $110/ton to at least prevent me from getting stuck with un-sellable hay. My goal is to unearth and edjumicate the small square customer into realizing that buying $80 900 lb round bales can save him money IF he can handle the bales once they're dropped off. Seeing that I'm a one-man-show, I can save money by not paying to throw bales of for expensive accumulators and the laborious loading, unloading into barns.


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## endrow

Canderson012 said:


> I don't know much about dairys and cattle operations but we've only had a few hard freezes. If the pasture isn't being super overgrazed I don't see how people in GA are burning through a whole lot of bales. Seeing plenty of white hay tarps still full around the state. Shipping it North and West is our best bet I guess.


In Lancaster County Pa. the land of hay auctions there is far more hay showing up at auctions then buyers. Prices are dropping slowly as supply and demand take hold


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## JD3430

I've had 3 people call me in the last 2 days looking for hay. I'm sold out. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't be thinking about buying other people's hay at auction and reselling it, but I don't want to sell something I don't know anything about. Would rather grow my own, but I'm also losing potential new customers.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

My concernn would be that you could get a bad rep if you buy hay and try and resell. But you do have the truck and trailer to your advantage as far as hauling right? I wish i would get 4.50/ sm bale that allow me to be able to afford the farm i want lol. Wish we lived closer we could partner up and help each other out.


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> My concernn would be that you could get a bad rep if you buy hay and try and resell. But you do have the truck and trailer to your advantage as far as hauling right? I wish i would get 4.50/ sm bale that allow me to be able to afford the farm i want lol. Wish we lived closer we could partner up and help each other out.


You are exactly right. I would know what to look for, but I don't want to be driving around looking for a couple rolls of good hay. A bad roll would ruin my rep.
We will get together sometime and if you grow good stuff I can sell it down here for much more than 4.50/ bale.....
You go get that farm and start growing, then we'll make 1,000 tons of hay each year. You bring your squares down here and store me in my barn. I'll sell them, we both make money. I get "the big tuna" and you can quit your job and come down here and help me get it cut. Then we'll be "hay tycoons" lol


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## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> Butt Hat = Tattoo on the small of the back above the butt cheeks found commonly on the adolescent to cougar-aged female human species.


HERE that is what we call a Tramp Stamp.


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## deadmoose

I see the above came a little untimely.


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## Nitram

No worries been there done that. Lol


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## mlappin

Today got $305/ton for 4x5 rounds. Dad's load brought the same. Sold a double load even at the auction, same price.

So roughly with weight of bales today got $132/bale.


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## JD3430

mlappin said:


> Today got $305/ton for 4x5 rounds. Dad's load brought the same. Sold a double load even at the auction, same price.
> 
> So roughly with weight of bales today got $132/bale.


That's sick!
I'd have a wonderful life selling hay at that price!
$200/ton would be great. Can't imagine $300+ !!!!!


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Marty, What auction do you and your Dad sell hay at?


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## JD3430

What really shocks me is that's an AUCTION price. Usually around HERE auctions don't bring the best prices.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> What really shocks me is that's an AUCTION price. Usually around HERE auctions don't bring the best prices.


Around _here _auctions set the price. Everybody knows about them and just about everybody that has any kind of livestock gets the Farmers Exchange, the Exchange reports on all the auctions every week. You can try to sell privately for more than the auctions are bringing, but you'll need plenty of room to hold a few years worth of hay.


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## mlappin

One last thing, when I get a string of luck I really get a string of luck.

Had another guy come out to the farm after the Saturday auction for a few bales for his beef cows as everything at the sale was too salty.

With the strange weather we had last March, in the mid to upper 70's for a week, the wild oats in a few fields really took off and were probably mature before the rest of the hay was knee high. I baled those areas separately and was going to feed it to my cows.

He seen those bales and wanted them, was willing to pay as much as what I had been selling the "good" first cutting bales for.

Turns out he has a few hilltops on his place that are nothing but blow sand, he figures if he feeds the bales with wild oats in them on the hilltops maybe those will actually grow there as he hasn't been able to get anything else to take.

To each their own, he's gonna take 4 bales a week. I'm not sure how many of those I actually have as I planned on feeding them to my cows, but he said he'll take the rest after he get's his tax refund.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Sounds like you have had a good string of LUCK recently. I need my regular work to pick back up so i can start getting my hay equipment ready and i would like to purchase some Fertilizer to spread on my good orchard grass fields.

My goal w/ the farm JD, is to try and get the current farmer to double up his rent per acre so my cousin can hold onto it a little longer and hopfully, my wife will be done with school and making some money so we can afford the 2k a month payment lol. Then it's some serious hay making TIME!!!


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## JD3430

mlappin said:


> Unusual year here, last year averaged in the $190-$220 a ton range. Year before that was slightly lower but still in the $200/ton range. 8-10 years ago I could haul in 8 round bales and make just enough to fill both 40 gallon tanks on the truck and might have enough left for a Big Mac, maybe. A few years before that it was high again and everybody and their cousin jumped into haymaking cause they were gonna get rich. The low prices sucked of course, but I always got a laugh listening to the new guys crying about all the new equipment payments and rents they couldn't pay with $80/ton hay. *None of them could figure out supply and demand. Hay was high before they started because supply and demand was closer aligned, they jumped in and completely screwed up the supply side while not doing a thing to increase demand therefore screwing the rest of the suppliers in the process*. I think most of them sold out and went into politics.
> 
> Have been consistently getting between $260 and $280 a ton though. Saturday was just a fluke, slightly less loads than normal but a lot more buyers. I jumped on it with both feet though. Sold a second load thru the auction of the same hay, same price and same weigh ticket as all scales in the area would be closed before I could get home and reload.
> 
> Sold another sixty six bales privately while I was at it, the buyer usually gets at least a few loads a month from us at the auctions, knows and even said that we always have good hay so why don't I save him the hassle of showing up and just bring him 22 bales Wednesday, another 22 in 30 days and the rest 30 days after that. Sold it for $260/ton which actually when figuring in I don't have to pay commission to the auction and don't have to burn up 60-90 minutes at the auction, and don't have to worry about ending up in Timbuktu to deliver it after the auction, I figure that's as good as $280-$290 at the auction.
> 
> Fridays are the Wakarusa Community Sales and Saturday is the County Line Consignment sale. Thursdays in Nappanee is a joke, consistently brings less than all the other auctions in the area. I think all the poor amish goto that one.
> 
> Around _here _auctions set the price. Everybody knows about them and just about everybody that has any kind of livestock gets the Farmers Exchange, the Exchange reports on all the auctions every week. You can try to sell privately for more than the auctions are bringing, but you'll need plenty of room to hold a few years worth of hay.


Mike you had me up till the part about "increasing demand". Maybe I didnt take my vitamins this morning, but I cant figure out how I as a hay grower can increase demand.

Great prices you are selling for. I can only hope to sell for $200/ton someday soon. That would make hay farming not only a passion, but a profitable passion.


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Sounds like you have had a good string of LUCK recently. I need my regular work to pick back up so i can start getting my hay equipment ready and i would like to purchase some Fertilizer to spread on my good orchard grass fields.
> 
> My goal w/ the farm JD, is to try and get the current farmer to double up his rent per acre so my cousin can hold onto it a little longer and hopfully, my wife will be done with school and making some money so we can afford the 2k a month payment lol. Then it's some serious hay making TIME!!!


Not really so much luck as being in the right place at the right time and being prepared (I know...thats the definition of LUCK).

I have the "tools", working as fast as I can on the "talent". Next I need MLappins' buyers!!!


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> Mike you had me up till the part about "increasing demand". Maybe I didnt take my vitamins this morning, but I cant figure out how I as a hay grower can increase demand.


Dad built his feeder for his three hay burners. Took the loop style free stalls stood them on the mounting flange and welded angle irons about 3' up and one across the bottom, then made some feet so they could be anchored to the cement. Set a round bale close enough so they can just reach it, every couple of days take the loader and scoot it 6" closer, very little to no waste. I have a picture of that and the picture of the cement where they stand showing no hay on their side. I also have the Klene Pipe feeder bookmarked on my phone. Anytime somebody is looking at one of my loads and comments what nice hay it is but their horses would waste too much of it, I show em the picture of Dads feeder and the website for the Klene Pipe.

I've also done the same when in a pinch somebody wants just one round bale because they are temporarily out of hay.

I increase the demand for MY hay by simply always making sure a very representative sample is towards the outside of the truck. I always make sure a bottom bale is showing that was sitting on the pallet as well as a top bale that is bleached. This way nobody feels that they are getting gypped by buying round bales. More importantly nobody feels gypped when buying _MY _round bales, so in affect I'm creating demand for my product.


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## JD3430

Excellent info. Thanks. 
Can you come out here for....oh a month or so.....and show me how it's done??? Lol
You really have your sh*t together. You know how to grow, sell and their ten overlooked business end....


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## NDVA HAYMAN

It's great that you have an auction (or several) in your area that supports the farmers and people are willing to buy hay at a good price. I think all of the bottom feeders come here!


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## mlappin

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> It's great that you have an auction (or several) in your area that supports the farmers and people are willing to buy hay at a good price. I think all of the bottom feeders come here!


Well we've had a few guys try some shady stuff. One guy used a grain truck to haul his small squares in, times got tough for him I guess as he started stacking the nicest greenest stuff on top and at the back of the truck, what the grain sides hid wasn't as nice, times got much worse for him when nobody would bid on his loads anymore. A guy last year kept hauling in 30 small square loads with 85 pound bales according to his scale ticket but they were loose, not sure what he was doing to pad the weight but he wasn't around long either. I think maybe he had his plow off when weighing empty, then would put in back on for the full weight. Probably got his empty weight with a empty tank then would fill up before getting the full weight as well. Might even had more bales on then would throw some off after weighing and restrap. No way were those bales 85 pounders as a couple of us stood on his tailgate and lifted a few off the top layer.

Had a few guys as well that even the auctions wouldn't take a check from them, cash only. They eventually went under or were foreclosed on.

Guy running the Friday sale now is a little younger than me but bought the farm and the land the auction is on from his dad years ago, when his dad was running the place. Guys running the Saturday sale have been the same ones since I started hauling Dad's hay while still in high school and that's been many many moons ago. Some of the guys buying regularly from me now at the auctions came to the sales with their dads when they were just knee high to me, now they are bringing their little ones to the sales.

Traditions or maybe a better term is, continuity like this^^^ is something you can never explain to those in Washington or the kids that are just waiting for mom and dad to pass so they can sell everything off and get "_their inheritance_".


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## deadmoose

Last fall I baled fallow ground. Was soybeans the year before. Just the weeds that grew. I baled 3*4 rounds. I am guessing 450 ish wt. Not weighed. Winning bidder paid $20 a roll. Somewhere in the $80 to $100 a ton for weeds. I heard 4*5 grass was going $80. Last year I thought the guys asking $40 for grass was high here. Both prices per bale.


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## Shetland Sheepdog

JD3430 said:


> Man that's unreal. I get $110 a ton selling below average hay to the mushroom guys.
> My goal would be like $150/ton to livestock owners.....
> Sounds like I may have my sights set too high.
> All I have is natural field grasses, orchard grass, fescues, reed canary. I keep the weeds sprayed and fertilize. That's about all I have. No real super high octane stuff of alfalfa.


For me 2nd & 3rd crop RCG *is* super high octane







$6.00 per 40 lb bale delivered! ($300.00 per ton)


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## springgardenfarm

I round bale 700 to 800 4x5 round bales each year.I keep 300 for my cattle and sell the rest.I get $50 for the orchard grass and $35 for the fescue.I would love to get more but it is hard to do in the Va/Carolina areas.

So if anyone needs some good hay at reasonable prices let me know.I rarely cut the fescue but once each year but if anyone wants it I will be glad to cut it.


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## nanuk

I find up here in Central Sask, there are extremes

my Rancher occasionally will test the hay, and sometimes weighs a load. He'll sell by the bale, or ton whatever...

but the problem is the amount we bale, I have to bale through the mid day, and often the hay is bone dry.

the driest hay he estimates over 1200lbs, and the 15-18% stuff feels to him like 1450.

he was asking $0.035/lb, so $45/bale: $70/ton. that appeared to be average this winter past.

we bale one cut, 300 acres and the yields vary, from 3,25T - 6.5T /acre

simply not possible to get 2 cuts.

Now, if one had a nice stand of timothy, or a good horse grass mix (no alfalfa), small squares could work, if you had a way to handle them.

Auctions run them around $6/70lb bale, up to $11/70lb bale in the spring. 4x the price for rounds.

but there are few who want small squares locally, and most want BIG rounds the heavier the better. one guy here bales an average 2200lb rounds.

if I was retired, I'd get myself a 1/4sec and make stands that I could cut/bale at different times depending, and spread out the risk.

Time is the killer for me.

oh, speaking of wild oats, my Rancher loves the stuff... higher protien for his bison, and they eat it with aplomb.

he is always in the market for grain feed contaminated with WO.


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