# Deere 4430 hydraulic problem



## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Ive got a 76 4430 I recently bought. I hooked my baler up to it to make sure everything worked. Ive already hooked up my batwing and used it a bit. Hooked up my rake as well. Everything works. Ive got a Deere 458 baler and as you all know on the Deere 4x5s the gate shuts and then the tension arm lowers down to tighten the belts unlike a 4x6 where it does it all at once. So basically it raises the gate and its strong but when I close it towards the end when its about to close shut it slows down and the tension arm takes 7-8 sometimes 9 seconds to lower down. I reversed the hoses and it does the same thing. Tried remote #2 and it didnt help. Reversed the hoses on that one too. Didnt help. I checked the screw where you change it from single acting cylinder and double acting. It was all the way in when I checked it. Not really sure what to do. Ive been told its the stroke control valve. Im having a hard time believing that but maybe it is. I messaged the previous owner and he said it did the same thing on his 558 so I know its not the baler. Id just like to hear some others talk on this. Also using adapters but I’m putting on old style JD tips tomorrow to see if it helps. Thanks


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## U Lazy V Ranch (Nov 30, 2020)

I think "stroke control valve" or "stroker valve" is an answer handed out a lot, with little thought put to it. I'll be following and interested to see what you find. I did a bunch of testing on our 4430 this spring, as per the service manual. If you have one, it's a great resource and the testing is well layed out.

John


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

U Lazy V Ranch said:


> I think "stroke control valve" or "stroker valve" is an answer handed out a lot, with little thought put to it. I'll be following and interested to see what you find. I did a bunch of testing on our 4430 this spring, as per the service manual. If you have one, it's a great resource and the testing is well layed out.
> John


See it just don't make any sense to me because if it was the stroke control wouldn't it just loose pressure altogether? Because it's strong going one way. Just weak the other. Strange. Hope to get it figured out. Everything else works fine. Steering, 2 speed, etc. I don't have the service manual yet but hoping to grab one soon


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

I cannot speak to the specifics on the tractor or baler model but I have a good bit of hydraulic knowledge. If you look at item 22 in the link: https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/70549/referrer/navigation/pgId/8623122

Can you verify it is fully actuating when the gate closes? The system looks very much like a Vermeer closed loop system. It looks like if the valve is not actuating Or the system needs charging the movement would be slow.

If I had another tractor or power source I would test it that way first.

JD does a pretty good job with troubleshooting ideas on their website. I just Googled questions on a JD 458.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I cannot speak to the specifics on the tractor or baler model but I have a good bit of hydraulic knowledge. If you look at item 22 in the link: https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/70549/referrer/navigation/pgId/8623122
> Can you verify it is fully actuating when the gate closes? The system looks very much like a Vermeer closed loop system. It looks like if the valve is not actuating Or the system needs charging the movement would be slow.
> 
> If I had another tractor or power source I would test it that way first.
> JD does a pretty good job with troubleshooting ideas on their website. I just Googled questions on a JD 458.


It works fine on my Massey 393. It did the same thing to the previous owner so it's gotta be something with the tractor


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

It's in the adjustment of the scv.

I have a 4040 and 4430 in addition to had a 458 and now 459. 4040 ran the 458 great with no issues, purchased the 459 immediately had tension issues with bales. Full story on haytalk for viewing pleasure. So JD and the techs had no interest in blaming the new baler and wanted to blame tractor. In the process they screwed up the scv and after 2 seasons of back and forth they "assisted buying" a rebuilt unit. Now the 4040 does exactly what you described and I know there is other issues with it as I can't control the flow. JD had no interest in remedying the issue any more.

Purchased a 4430 couple years ago and I know both scv need to rebuilt and when on the baler does just as you described. On both tractors you can find a sweet spot with the lever and gate will close normal but it's hard to find at times and a pain in the a#$.

Someday will be sending all the units out for professional service and not JD.

Both balers work perfect on the NH. When issues were happening the NH was not available and JD had no interest in providing a tractor even though the store was a 20 min tractor drive to the field to prove me wrong when I told them the issue is the baler not the tractor. "tractor ran other baler just fine". Took 3 seasons and a lot of wasted $$$$$ on my part before I had some resolution. Rant over this still pisses me off.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Welcome to HT
Is hyd flow control valve above breakaway coupler set on the "rabbit symbol"? Next I would remove 1 or both restrictor orifices(keys 20 & 29) on baler hyd hoses to see if that helped increase the tension arm speed. I suggest to get 5000 psi gauge & with hyd tip installed check pressure. Have you tried changing to different male coupler tips?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IH 1586

If you decide to have your SCV's valves reconditioned there's a self employed technician in Ohio that will refurbish/adjust/test your scv's. He built a hyd test stand to test JD closed center hyd valves. He accepts ship in repairs. Shown in photo below are a few hyd items he has repaired. He's a super nice guy. If you want his contact info send me a PM & I'll send it to you.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> IH 1586
> 
> If you decide to have your SCV's valves reconditioned there's a self employed technician in Ohio that will refurbish/adjust/test your scv's. He built a hyd test stand to test JD closed center hyd valves. He accepts ship in repairs. Shown in photo below are a few hyd items he has repaired. He's a super nice guy. If you want his contact info send me a PM & I'll send it to you.


Thank you. I have been in touch with him and have his email and mailing address. He actually isn't to far from where I meet the ex to pick up/drop off my sons. Might save some shipping except it's always a Sat and Sun. I need to get some worst case scenarios estimates from him and get the ball rolling. Keep talking about it but don't do it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I'll bet Tim will accept delivery of your valves on weekend. Plus you need to see his JD model 60 crawler & MFWD creations. If you like me to I will be happy to ask him if he will accept some valves on weekend?

IIRC he has been through the divorce scene similar to me


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> Welcome to HTIs hyd flow control valve above breakaway coupler set on the "rabbit symbol"? Next I would remove 1 or both restrictor orifices(keys 20 & 29) on baler hyd hoses to see if that helped increase the tension arm speed. I suggest to get 5000 psi gauge & with hyd tip installed check pressure. Have you tried changing to different male coupler tips?


I've got a spare old style JD tip im gonna put on today. Gonna go to TSC and get another one and try those. Yeah it's on the rabbit. I've adjusted it all the way down to turtle and it does work. Just checking. I'll try those orifices today and maybe if it works it'll save me some money lol. Thank you


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

IH 1586 said:


> It's in the adjustment of the scv.
> 
> I have a 4040 and 4430 in addition to had a 458 and now 459. 4040 ran the 458 great with no issues, purchased the 459 immediately had tension issues with bales. Full story on haytalk for viewing pleasure. So JD and the techs had no interest in blaming the new baler and wanted to blame tractor. In the process they screwed up the scv and after 2 seasons of back and forth they "assisted buying" a rebuilt unit. Now the 4040 does exactly what you described and I know there is other issues with it as I can't control the flow. JD had no interest in remedying the issue any more.
> 
> ...


Oh man that sounds like a terrible situation. Darn dealers. And actually I think I know that sweet spot you're talking about. Hard to hit it seems but if I play with it long enough I find it accidentally. I know something is wrong with my #2 SCV but I'm not even gonna talk about that yet. So if it's the adjustment of the SCV what exactly needs to be done? I've never went through anything like this so just be prepared for some stupid questions along the way


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

There are 4 poppet valves each with its own adjustment screw in each SCV that must have correct clearance set by utilization of a micrometer. The "sweet spot" could be caused from worn rockers or rollers on the ends of poppet valves. I will promise you the clearances are not easy to adjust especially in the first few attempts.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Oh boy. Sounds like the SCV’s are coming off and taking a trip somewhere lol


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

RedPaintOnly said:


> I've got a spare old style JD tip im gonna put on today. Gonna go to TSC and get another one and try those. Yeah it's on the rabbit. I've adjusted it all the way down to turtle and it does work. Just checking. I'll try those orifices today and maybe if it works it'll save me some money lol. Thank you


You can try the orifices. Didn't work on my issues.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

IH 1586 said:


> You can try the orifices. Didn't work on my issues.


It might not completely fix it but wouldn't it help just a little bit because it wouldn't have as much resistance? Maybe I'm completely wrong, I don't know


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

RedPaintOnly said:


> It might not completely fix it but wouldn't it help just a little bit because it wouldn't have as much resistance? Maybe I'm completely wrong, I don't know


Everything txjim talks about with orifices and hose ends been done for my issues with tech on hand. Made no difference but it also doesn't hurt to try you never know. All it takes is debris hung up to cause an issue. You may just luck out.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

IH 1586 said:


> Everything txjim talks about with orifices and hose ends been done for my issues with tech on hand. Made no difference but it also doesn't hurt to try you never know. All it takes is debris hung up to cause an issue. You may just luck out.


Oh okay I see. Well I doubt that's what it is as it works fine on my 393 but someone a few days ago said the tips could be wore out and not meshing right with the adapters. Doubt that's what it is either but I'm gonna try all the simple fixes I can first. If it's really the SCV's needing work I might just have to live with it.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Had similar issues on my 3020, The SCV is not hard to rebuild, I put it back together as it came apart, took it to my dealer to have the rockers adjusted (since I did not have the special JD tool). I was told one set of the valves were reversed. Long story short it cost me $390 at the dealer and about $100 for the rebuild kit. I have the pump out now rebuilding it, so I have not checked to see if my problems are fixed yet.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

RedPaintOnly said:


> It might not completely fix it but wouldn't it help just a little bit because it wouldn't have as much resistance? Maybe I'm completely wrong, I don't know


Removing orifices is easy & doesn't cost anything but a little time. Do you utilize JD male coupler tips or ISO tips on your 4430??


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

KS John said:


> Had similar issues on my 3020, The SCV is not hard to rebuild, I put it back together as it came apart, took it to my dealer to have the rockers adjusted (since I did not have the special JD tool). I was told one set of the valves were reversed. Long story short it cost me $390 at the dealer and about $100 for the rebuild kit. I have the pump out now rebuilding it, so I have not checked to see if my problems are fixed yet.


Oh that's all it costs????? I was told in the 4 digits LOL


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> Removing orifices is easy & doesn't cost anything but a little time. Do you utilize JD male coupler tips or ISO tips on your 4430??


Right now it still has the original old style and I'm using adapters


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

By old style do you mean the type in photo below? If so what's the need for adapters. I've seen adapters cause hyd flow problems.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> By old style do you mean the type in photo below? If so what's the need for adapters. I've seen adapters cause hyd flow problems.


My baler has the ISO tips so therefore I need adapters to connect into the Deere female end. Yeah I've heard of that so I'm putting on Deere tips today. Maybe it'll make SOME difference.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I'll bet Tim will accept delivery of your valves on weekend. Plus you need to see his JD model 60 crawler & MFWD creations. If you like me to I will be happy to ask him if he will accept some valves on weekend?
> 
> IIRC he has been through the divorce scene similar to me


Seems like a trip will be in order now.

I'll be shipping as next summer will be next time i get my sons after this weekend. After the first of the year I'll be working on my what I need to get fixed and what I can live with list. That is unless my wife buys that winning ticket then I won't need a list.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Took out both orifices. Changed the tips. Still the same. I think the gate is a bit faster though which kinda offsets the slow tension arm lol. I think I’ll deal with it unless it becomes a problem like loose bales or something.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

RedPaintOnly said:


> Oh that's all it costs????? I was told in the 4 digits LOL


Well that was with me doing the SCV removal, kit install and reinstall of the SCV. They only changed the position of a couple of parts and set the rockers. Couple of hours shop time was the expense. The technician told me when someone brings them in, they just automatically put in new poppet valves and don't even check them. Here is a link to a youtube video I found. Lots of good info.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

KS John said:


> Had similar issues on my 3020, The SCV is not hard to rebuild, I put it back together as it came apart, took it to my dealer to have the rockers adjusted (since I did not have the special JD tool). I was told one set of the valves were reversed. Long story short it cost me $390 at the dealer and about $100 for the rebuild kit. I have the pump out now rebuilding it, so I have not checked to see if my problems are fixed yet.


KS John

Is your 3020's serial # below or above 123,000? I agree adjusting the valve clearances is the tricky part. BTDT


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I have rebuilt around a dozen or so SCV's it's not a bad job removing, rebuilding, and installing. I usually reinstall and if they ain't right take them back off and take to John deere store to get adjusted. As far as the baler my 458 did the same thing with my 4455 but worked fine with my allis chalmers 8050. If you miss the sweet spot enough you will have some bad spots on the belts. That is 1 of many reasons I traded to a 460m.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> KS John
> 
> Is your 3020's serial # below or above 123,000? I agree adjusting the valve clearances is the tricky part. BTDT


It is a late model, SN is in the 130,000 range


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

That's what I guessed your 3020 was a late model. Now I have a question for the JD employee that stated you had poppet valves reversed in the SCV due to the fact that all 4 valves are identical with same part # how can one get them reversed???


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

JOR Farm said:


> I have rebuilt around a dozen or so SCV's it's not a bad job removing, rebuilding, and installing. I usually reinstall and if they ain't right take them back off and take to John deere store to get adjusted. As far as the baler my 458 did the same thing with my 4455 but worked fine with my allis chalmers 8050. If you miss the sweet spot enough you will have some bad spots on the belts. That is 1 of many reasons I traded to a 460m.


Bad spots on the belts?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

RedPaintOnly said:


> Bad spots on the belts?


On JD rd balers if tension arm is slow to put tension on belts while closing the gate the belts can get hung between bottom gate roller & baler frame which can damage the belts.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> On JD rd balers if tension arm is slow to put tension on belts while closing the gate the belts can get hung between bottom gate roller & baler frame which can damage the belts.


On the 6ft models definitely but on the 5ft models they don't. I'm not sure what the differences are but there's little to no slack when shutting the gate. Thankful I don't have a 468 right now or that would be a pain in the butt LOL


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

RedPaintOnly said:


> On the 6ft models definitely but on the 5ft models they don't. I'm not sure what the differences are but there's little to no slack when shutting the gate. Thankful I don't have a 468 right now or that would be a pain in the butt LOL


What Jim said is exactly correct. I have never heard of this being a problem on 6ft balers but every 5ft that I know of pinches belts with some tractors


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Due to my nerve damage in recent yrs I must rely on individuals to operate my equipment. When raking/baling I'm on site when I'm training an inexperienced operator to give advise if a problem happens to arise. I've on occasion noticed ""new to me tractor operator"" not moving scv lever with enough force so rd baler tension arm lowers before rear gate. Therefore belts would have been caught between lower TG roller & baler frame if i had not been there to correct them. My baling tractor has 11,500 hrs of use so I'm guessing hyd components are having wear issues

As I've stated in the past my knowledge of balers that will make maximum 5 ft diameter bales is very limited.


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

JOR Farm said:


> What Jim said is exactly correct. I have never heard of this being a problem on 6ft balers but every 5ft that I know of pinches belts with some tractors


Well see I'm the opposite there. I've seen tons of problems with the 6ft balers pinching belts if the gate shuts before the tension arm but never seen a 5ft model pinch belts. Although on the 458 standard it seems like they'll pinch. But not on my 458 uhh premium I guess you'd call it?


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## Nalley (Mar 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> Due to my nerve damage in recent yrs I must rely on individuals to operate my equipment. When raking/baling I'm on site when I'm training an inexperienced operator to give advise if a problem happens to arise. I've on occasion noticed ""new to me tractor operator"" not moving scv lever with enough force so rd baler tension arm lowers before rear gate. Therefore belts would have been caught between lower TG roller & baler frame if i had not been there to correct them. My baling tractor has 11,500 hrs of use so I'm guessing hyd components are having wear issues
> 
> As I've stated in the past my knowledge of balers that will make maximum 5 ft diameter bales is very limited.


Oh man I'm sorry, that must be terrible. I could never do it. I get so nervous when other people are running my equipment because no matter what they'll never do it how I want LOL. But yeah I know what you mean there about the pinching belts


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I've been disabled since Feb. '96 so please ""don't ever state never""! It took me watching my tractor operator baling several 100 bales for it to stop bothering me. But after I physically was unable to replace a part such as pickup teeth or unstop baler if I happened to stop it up I got to the point it doesn't bother me most of the time. I've also slowed down my hay baling business to only cutting/baling my own hay plus a few select neighbors fields. I should just stop putting up hay but I'm not there yet!


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## Aussiemac (Nov 16, 2018)

Good on you Txjim. I am not sure of your age but I am sure you have lots more experience than us younger hay growers and mowers. We muster for an old couple way up in the range and they have been working cattle by themselves on that place for 57 years. They are into their 90s now so are slowing down so we help them out when we are asked. 20,000 acres is hard for two elderly people and that bloke has taught me so much that I can never replace. Everything from sharpening saws to drafting cattle. Never give up mate you have a few years left in you yet! Merry Xmas to all here at haytalk!


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## Aussiemac (Nov 16, 2018)

Good on you Txjim. I am not sure of your age but I am sure you have lots more experience than us younger hay growers and mowers. We muster for an old couple way up in the range and they have been working cattle by themselves on that place for 57 years. They are into their 90s now so are slowing down so we help them out when we are asked. 20,000 acres is hard for two elderly people and that bloke has taught me so much that I can never replace. Everything from sharpening saws to drafting cattle. Never give up mate you have a few years left in you yet! Merry Xmas to all here at haytalk!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I was 76 yrs of age on my last BD in October. Age & nerve damage is slowing me down but it's been a good ride. I wish I could start over in my hay baling/equipment operating career utilizing some these newer designed hay balers/cutters & rakes but I guess I'll leave that to the younger generations.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone.


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