# Preservative Aplicator?



## josh (Dec 5, 2010)

I give up, Im plain tired of feeding moldy hay that I thought should have been dry enough to bale.

Can anyone steer me in the right direction for an aplicator on a JD 567 baler and a ball park on cost.

Thanks


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Look at Harvest Tec. They have models that fit most balers. They sell only through equipment dealers.

Link: http://www.harvesttec.com/pdfs/johndeere/John_Deere_Brochure_2006a[1].pdf

I've had one on my sm square baler at $3200 and just bought one for my big round at $3600 (List price was $4600). Both are fully automatic.

Dorhmann make a unit but I am not familiar with it.

Link: Dohrmann Enterprises, Inc.

Ralph


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## josh (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks Ralph.

From what I have read here it looks like the Dohrman is a simpler but less expensive unit. Anyone using one?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The idea is to put enough antifungal material into a bale to prevent mold. 
We need to increase the amount of material in the hay as the moisture level goes up. 
HarvestTec Does this by increasing the flow rate by increasing the pressure of a liquid material. (Usually a "Buffered Acid") Their on the go moisture tester compensates for changes in hay moisture by changing the pump pressure. Some low 12 volt ire and an on/off switch, *Plus an on the go miosture tester*.

YOU can do much the same thing with a constant pressure system and changing the amount of hay going into the baler. Just keep an eye on your on the go moisture tester and drop back a gear if the moisture goes up. 
Twenty years ago I built one with a 50 gallon Tractor Supply tank, 12 volt spray pump, manual pressure regulator, nice large pressure gage, and plumbing. I calibrated the machine so I could bale 24% moisture hay at 20 strokes per bale on 35" long bales. 15 Strokes per bale for 22% moisture hay, & 12 strokes per bale for 20% moisture hay. Turned the pump off for 18% & below moisture hay. Above 24% I did not start baling.

In theory you can bale up close to 40% moisture using pure propolantic acid at a very high rate. If you do the stacked hay will be a problem, with the bottom bales mostly squashed out flat, and uneven shifting of your stacked hay.
A more realistic moisture will be up to 24, maybe 26, percent moisture. This assuming the moisture at baling is not 32% stem moisture and 10% leaf moisture.

There is also a dry material you can use that works differently and will work up to 22% hay moisture as long as the moisture is mostly in the leaves and the stems are plenty dry enough to bale. This allows you to start baling in the morning while the hay (Fully cured hay) with dew moisture is your problem.

The big question is why do YOU need a preservative? Can you adjust your harvest management to eliminate the problem?
Can you EMMEDIATELY spread your hay out to cover 75% of the ground or more, to facilitate your drying? Say have a tedder follow the mower conditioner. 
If necessary can you use a tedder the next morning to fluff up the full width swath for better second day curing? 
*Does your climate have enough pan evaporation to allow hay to cure?* If not you are a candidate for haylage.

To prevent mold from dew moisture the humidity, down at the windrow must be less than *65%*. This is assuming the stems are dried down to close to 10% moisture and all the hay moisture is due to your overnight dew.

The book says we can small square bale hay at* 18%* moisture with no problems. 
This is assuming both the stems and leaves are 18% moisture. We can safely bale 18% moisture hay if the stems are 9% and the leaves are 27% moisture (average 18%) if the moisture is surface dew. 
Reverse that with hay that is not completely cured but test 18% moisture, with 9% leaf moisture and 27% stem moisture and we end up with all the leaves on the ground & a moldy bundle of stems.

Operators tell me with acid the weight of acid applied compared to moisture content is important. I am told with dry the active ingredient has to (MUST) occupy all the spots that fungus can attach to the crop. Then it really is only good up to 22% moisture for field use.
The location of the on the go moisture tester for HarvestTec systems are on the cut side, to look for stem moisture. My on the go moisture tester is on the folded side looking at surface dew. There is a difference.
Even with the HarvestTec automatic adjustments you need to learn to anticipate moisture in the windrows.
You need to anticipate a wet slug & give the hay a good load of acid as the slug is going up into the baler, not after the hay has been baled.

When I learned the significance of humidity I found I no longer NEEDed a preservative. I purchased a* Kestrel 3000 *hand held weather station that provides humidity information Gempler's Catalog pp 453 $154 +
They have on page 459 Temperature & Humidity Pen for $85.70 or a different one for $110.50.

GEMPLER'S - or 1-800-382-8473. If you shop on line you probably can beat these prices.


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## josh (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks Wilson.

I dairy in southern MN, I put up most of my hay as balage with an in-line wraper.

For whatever reason (remote small fields, good weather forcast) its handy and labor effective to try to bale some hay dry.

Humidity is a big problem here, usually the best I can do is get hay to 21-18% moisture and even then I am probably baling with storm clouds on the horizion.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Check out the Silo-King link on this site. The stuff works great on dry hay and balage. I make about 250 acres alfalfa a year, all treated with Silo-King. Most of the dry hay is going to the horse market this year and balage looks great.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Just bought a HarvesTec fully auto applicator for $4700...included 450lbs of juice


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## astropilot (Jun 3, 2008)

Hey where did you get that deal? I have been looking to put one on my Hesston Inline. Thanks Mark


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Rick, I put one on my 5070 last year. It's takes a little bit of time to install. Not the easiest piece I have put on. Was that an installed price or you putting it on? Mike


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

So with Hay Gaurd, Silo King, and all the other propionic and citric acid solutions, how do you know which one to use???


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> Rick, I put one on my 5070 last year. It's takes a little bit of time to install. Not the easiest piece I have put on. Was that an installed price or you putting it on? Mike


 Mike - What size tank did you put on your 5070 and where did you mount it?


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

I haven't even picked it up yet! My best friend from high school is a New Holland serviceman and is going to help us put it on (to save a lil' money). I'm sure to do a good job and keep the wires nice and hidden it will take a little bit of time.

I was at a farm show yesterday and the silo-king rep was trying to peddle one of their applicators to put on our other baler. For some way or another, he was saying there is much less dry matter loss with a silo-king applicator rather than a HarvesTec. I was thinking the guy was full of it, but wanted to throw the questions out to the hay gods on HayTalk! So to you Silo-King guys, what's better about that setup and preservative that makes it better than a HarvesTec? Kinda curious.....


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Mike, Mine is mounted on the back between the bale chamber and the cross member that comes over towards the tongue. I can take some pics and e-mail if you would like. The tank is 25 gallons. Mike


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

The reason there is less dry matter loss with Silo King over propionic acid is because of the modes of action of the two products. Prop has one mode of action, kill all the fungus in the hay which can cause heating of the hay. Prop does nothing to stop heating from the reaction of oxygen and moisure in the hay. This heating causes the soluble sugars of the hay to decompose and be burned up. This is your dry matter loss. Silo King as anti-fungal agents to stop the fungal growth, anti-oxidants to scavenge oxygen and keep it from reacting with moisture and causing heating and loss of sugars (dry matter) and it also has enzymes which "pre-digest" fiber in the hay and convert it to more soluble sugars which are more available to the livestock, creating a higher energy value and relative feed value of the hay. I have been running Silo-King applicators for 11 years now my small square baler and have units on my round baler and 3x3 square baler. My balers do not go to the field without it. Most importantly, we had a miserable year this year with weather. Lots of rain and humidity early summer, but I am comfortable selling all of my hay into the horse market. No mold, no carmelized hay, good color, and good smell.


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## Mitch (Jan 7, 2011)

Acid pickels the hay. Also why the hay can become hard and tooth pick like.

Agri King will make the hay nice and soft, and prevent mold also. It will also help with DM Loss like haybaker said.

Agri King product Silo King has 4 ingrediants
Anti Oxidents to scavange oxygen to prevent heeating
Mold inhibitors to trap molds
Enzymes to increase digestibility
Lactic Acid Bacteria for fermentation.

Applicator on sb is around 500
aplicaor on large bailer is around 2,000

If you guys want some liturature pm me, and I can send it out to you. Leave me your email addy, and I will see what I can dig up.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> Mike, Mine is mounted on the back between the bale chamber and the cross member that comes over towards the tongue. I can take some pics and e-mail if you would like. The tank is 25 gallons. Mike


Thanks Mike
started yesterday working on mounting the 55 gallon tank directly behind the twine box. I will just have to make sure and get enough strength in the supports and bracing to allow for the fact that it sits out back. Pumps are going to be bolted to the side of the twine box behind the offside wheel. 
I will try and post pics when we are done


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## Mitch (Jan 7, 2011)

Who ever you buy your preservative from should help you mount it. We personally mount all applicaors for clients who use our preservative.


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## josh (Dec 5, 2010)

Am I wrong to be a little concerned about using a dry/granular product on a round baler? It seems like it would be difficult to incorprate it into the hay without a lot of loss?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've personally never heard of anyone ever using a dry product on a round baler, I'm sure it could be done just not sure it would be worth the hassle compared to the ease of setup and use of a liquid product/applicator.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

mlappin said:


> I've personally never heard of anyone ever using a dry product on a round baler, I'm sure it could be done just not sure it would be worth the hassle compared to the ease of setup and use of a liquid product/applicator.


I looked at Agri Kings applicator at a farm show.It was pretty simple.A hopper for the product with a meter on it that droped it into a blower and they blew it into the hay at the pickup.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Guy at the farm show really didn't sell me on the Silo-King, I'm sure you guys know what you're saying compared to that guy. He acted like you always had to apply the granular?! Did I interpret him wrong? Also, how do you regulate how much you are applying to know how much more expense you are putting into each bale? The rep at the farm show quoted me a price of about $2000 for the whole setup.

Making hay just seems a whole lot easier when the hay is simply DRY!  Gotta save those leaves though!


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

Mitch said:


> Who ever you buy your preservative from should help you mount it. We personally mount all applicaors for clients who use our preservative.


Greg from ISF (HayGuard) drove over 3,600 miles (round trip) with my Gazeeka moisture tester and preservative applicator in the back of his pickup to install it at 9am Monday morning. Normally he flies to do the install, but trucking the equipment to Canada wasn't going to be possible on such short notice.

The products work, and Greg's gone above and beyond for us.

Very satisfied,
-Josh


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## Mitch (Jan 7, 2011)

great, i am glad you got it worked out.


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## Mitch (Jan 7, 2011)

We have a dial in the tractor that you can set the ratio. A rep from Agri King would help you guys get set up. He would mount gandy and set ratio of applicator and show you how to use it.



PaCustomBaler said:


> Guy at the farm show really didn't sell me on the Silo-King, I'm sure you guys know what you're saying compared to that guy. He acted like you always had to apply the granular?! Did I interpret him wrong? Also, how do you regulate how much you are applying to know how much more expense you are putting into each bale? The rep at the farm show quoted me a price of about $2000 for the whole setup.
> 
> Making hay just seems a whole lot easier when the hay is simply DRY!  Gotta save those leaves though!


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## John Anderson (Apr 12, 2010)

"This heating causes the soluble sugars of the hay to decompose and be burned up. This is your dry matter loss......it also has enzymes which "pre-digest" fiber in the hay and convert it to more soluble sugars which are more available to the livestock, creating a higher energy value and relative feed value of the hay."

Haybaler, your comments seem to be in contradiction. First you say the soluble sugars decompose and burn up (creating DM loss), then turn around and say agri-king increases these soluble sugars with enzymes. Wouldn't this suggest that there is opportunity for greater 'burn-up' if more soluble sugar is made? I would presume that the product is not a silver bullet and wipes out all the bacteria that could use those sugars made available to create heat?
Could you also maybe help me understand the product better. Is this a product liquid or dry, I thought there was some bacteria in this product as well, perhaps i am misinformed? 
If there are bacteria in an inoculant (for dry hay) would it be fair to say you need to apply them as a liquid solution? If they (bacteria) are applied as a dry powder they would need to be re-hydrated to become 'active', correct. And dry hay being 12-25% moisture, preferrably 10-15%, would not have enough moisture to sufficiently re-hydrate the bacteria as rapidly as you would like them to protect the hay as best as possible. I have read univeristy data that show clear evidence that in haylage as the DM increased the water soluble inoculants performed better than dry granular/powder forms. And would expect as dry hay moisture levels a dry bacterial inoculant would be poor in activity and the cost for those bacteria is not justified, if they are never even activated?

This second comment is put out there any and all to respond to. And I hope others reply as i'd like to hear others opinions. Afterall we are all on here to to listen, suggest, and learn from one another to help us all become better business people.

John Anderson


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The truth is there is a some good in each system that may be lacking in another system.

There are also valid uses for each system.

I prefer to bale hay with dry stems and mildly damp leaves.

Some things that have not been covered is methods to rehydrate the hay enough to bale with the least amount of leaf loss.

Was it two years ago that the major topic was to force dry the hay in a kiln followed by baling?

That works also.

Each has some disadvantages. What we need to avoid is baling with stem moisture and little or now leaf moisture.

*The devil is in the details*


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

To reply to John Anderson, Silo-King does prevent soluble sugars from being burned up by preventing the heating of the hay. This occurs within in the first few days after baling. Hay is usually stable within 2 weeks, unless it is baled at super high moistures. The enzyme activity in Silo King that breaks down fiber into soluble sugars is a long term process. This will take in excess of 1 month for this reaction to occur, so those sugars would not be present yet for the heating process to take advantage of. Silo-King in dry powder form works great on hay because of what Hay Wilson just said in his post. Bale hay with dry stems and mildly damp leaves and Silo-King becomes naturally sticky to the hay. Wet stems and dry leaves the product works as well, but stem moisture is going to be a problem no matter what you are using.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I use a cheap harvest tec applicator on one of my 567's, you could make your own but they sure mount up nice. After the initial math i made up a chart i taped to my monitor. Using this, and a baler mounted moisture tester, all i really need to know is how long it takes to make a bale. I double check the bales from time to time with a probe just to be sure. I seldom treat the whole field usually just low or shaded areas and the outside rounds of tree bordered fields. If you have rolly land this really works great. I slow down in the heavier wetter spots which increases the app rate. I start baling when most of the field is dry, better quality hay,way less stress!


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