# Hay....is it worth the hassle for some side cash?



## Cranehand181 (Apr 16, 2020)

Hello all, I'm 33, live in KY along Ohio River about 2 hours west of Louisville. My family has 75 to 80 acres of useable pasture(50ac)/hay fields(25 to 30ac) beef and hay farm. Been off of the farm for 8 to 12 years working union construction (crane operator) I remember cutting my teeth on dad's 756 IH with a NH Haybine, cant remember the size and raking at 10 or 11. He'd always bale it with old 605c Vermeer he recently upgraded to an F model lol. My dad is turning it over to me and my brother (who currently wants no part of it) within the next 10 years. With my work schedule it would be extremely hard to take care of cows without paying someone to look after them with my weird unpredictable hours. I'm not looking to make haying replace my construction gig, but can a guy really be successful on such small acreage? My first post so I used some of it as a friendly introduction to you all. I know I left some info out in terms of hay crop info etc. Anyway have a good one.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Welcome to Haytalk cranehand 181...
If I had to answer it honestly I would say, lease it.....
Very slim margins, marketing, equipment costs, labor, just to name a few of my reasons. It can be done, but it's tough....collecting rent is much easier on the day job and the body. Hth


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## Cranehand181 (Apr 16, 2020)

I've thought about that too Devildawg. I'd have to wait till the old man was in the ground to lease it out. He would certainly have a stroke!


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

NO.

Is that a simple enought answer?


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## Cranehand181 (Apr 16, 2020)

I guess I should add I could possibly bump my usable acreage up to around 100/120 with some tree clearing. Most of our acreage is woods and hills with rocks. The current hay fields and pasture is really flat.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I don’t know your schedule but if you have good fence I would actually think the cows would be a more forgiving enterprise unless you’re simply out of the area for long periods.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> NO.
> 
> Is that a simple enought answer?


Bahahahahahah


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Give your dad credit for wanting to turn it over to you. Can't give up that good job with wages and benefits. It is too bad that he wouldn't allow you to lease it out if you could find a good local operator that you would both be satisfied with. Also wouldn't be so bad if your dad was still physically able to give you a hand maybe mow and rake so you could just bale on the weekends, but I know that weekend farming doesn't always work out and gets old in a hurry too. Other thing is if you could hire someone to custom cut and bale but you usually end up on the end of the list and theirs gets done first. Any dairies around or any one else that you can sell directly off the field? Those acre could be a nice little extra income but it could take more time then you have, what about in winter do you stay busy at work or does it slow down and give you time to market the hay then?


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## gosh (Sep 28, 2014)

Cranehand181 said:


> Hello all, I'm 33, live in KY along Ohio River about 2 hours west of Louisville. My family has 75 to 80 acres of useable pasture(50ac)/hay fields(25 to 30ac) beef and hay farm. Been off of the farm for 8 to 12 years working union construction (crane operator) I remember cutting my teeth on dad's 756 IH with a NH Haybine, cant remember the size and raking at 10 or 11. He'd always bale it with old 605c Vermeer he recently upgraded to an F model lol. My dad is turning it over to me and my brother (who currently wants no part of it) within the next 10 years. With my work schedule it would be extremely hard to take care of cows without paying someone to look after them with my weird unpredictable hours. I'm not looking to make haying replace my construction gig, but can a guy really be successful on such small acreage? My first post so I used some of it as a friendly introduction to you all. I know I left some info out in terms of hay crop info etc. Anyway have a good one.


Do you enjoy haying? Do you have kids that would like it? There is an age window in which kids would think helping with this is cool (before they enter the know-it-all teenage phase). You aren't going to get rich on this, as you already know. But there are other benefits that could make it worthwhile.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Are you keeping the beef cattle? I imagine the hay ground is a current food source for them?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Cranehand181 said:


> Hello all, I'm 33, live in KY along Ohio River about 2 hours west of Louisville. My family has 75 to 80 acres of useable pasture(50ac)/hay fields(25 to 30ac) beef and hay farm. Been off of the farm for 8 to 12 years working union construction (crane operator) I remember cutting my teeth on dad's 756 IH with a NH Haybine, cant remember the size and raking at 10 or 11. He'd always bale it with old 605c Vermeer he recently upgraded to an F model lol. My dad is turning it over to me and my brother (who currently wants no part of it) within the next 10 years. With my work schedule it would be extremely hard to take care of cows without paying someone to look after them with my weird unpredictable hours. I'm not looking to make haying replace my construction gig, but can a guy really be successful on such small acreage? My first post so I used some of it as a friendly introduction to you all. I know I left some info out in terms of hay crop info etc. Anyway have a good one.


Well, one thing is for sure, you're starting out inheriting land and presumably hay equipment, which is a quantum leap over what I had when I started-*nothing.* :huh:

If you can produce hay with land given to you and no equipment payments, then I'd say you CAN make some extra money, but it will take away all your spare time if you keep your full time job.
If you have kids, consider what time you'll lose with them. My kids are late teens now and I sacrificed a lot of sleep to be their coach and supporter at their games when I was dead tired. They're only young once.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

There is only on sustainable reason to do hay. Ir has nothing to do with money. Working with the land and specifically haymaking is either in your blood or not. That makes the body keep moving when it can't, the bad times bearable, and the good times euphoric.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Amen to that Hayman, you pretty much said it all!


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I was basically in your shoes 16 years ago except my father passed away from stomach cancer. I m a union operator and also a farmer. Also had a brother who only seen dollar signs when mom talked about turning farm over. So there is the first problem I see do you want farm and once dad passes on will your brother want his half in cash. There are a lot of variables involved but I make money on the farm my oldest son is highly involved he is 17. So my advice is some family meetings I would hate to see you invest years into a farm to only have your brother sell it out from under you. Some other guys on here have had that happen to them. Seems some parents just think when they close there eyes for good there children will just get along believe me they won't work together. The less my brother and I talk the better we get along. I ended up with the farm my brother wanted my mom to sell it so he could have his half of the money. He basically told her to sell it he wanted his money thing was it was my moms property aka her money. So proceed with caution but don't stick your neck out for years without a plan it took us four years to come up with a plan that worked for all of us. PM if you want my number I will gladly talk to you about all the ups and downs of it.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The biggest change going from beef on pasture to selling hay is accounting for all the fertilizer / manure you will need to obtain and spread. Big cost and time suck.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

We have been farming and working full time for over 30 years first cattle row crops and hay. We have cut back our operation slowly over the years. First got out of row crops, reason lost custom combining and grain hauling service could not justify buying combine. In 2014 cut cattle out of operation because rebuilding fence on rented ground din't make sense with one partner age 65 and the other 55. Currently we have 250 acres of hay we bale with one partner retired and 2 working full time off the farm. We have built a market for our product and have been able to sell all our hay. The key to your success is marketing your product you have to find repeat customers and take the time to meet their needs. Then you have to produce hay to fit your market, round bales or sm squares whatever. The other thing to think about is your tax situation a farm equipment investment can lower your taxes now while your working and help build equity for a retirement sale. Sounds like you have the equipment to make round bales and your pastures can be converted to hay. Big question you need to figure out is can you sell your hay at a profit and only you can do that. This is going to be a tough year to be in any business good luck


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## cjsr8595 (Jul 7, 2014)

I agree with the comments above. I have a day job i can't give up, but I love making hay and farting around with cattle. Does it make any money? It pays my property taxes and the what little is left if any goes right back into the farm. I wouldn't have it any other way. My grandpa is 89, lives on the farm, has been here his entire life. He smiles every time I go to the barn! You have to do it because you love it. I'm a small operation, not a lot of room for profit but theres a lot of room for teaching, learning and memories.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Last time I checked making hay doesn't take all day every day. Even if you put it all into lucerne your only doing a few days once a month..... I'd say give it a shot...


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

Excellent statement Hayman!


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Haying or farming is really not a money maker although I can be at times it is a life style not a job you do it for the love of the work and outdoors.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

With COVID-19 you get the disease it seems to happens once, then you develop anti-bodies (supposedly) to prevent re-infection.

With the hay bug, once you get it it's hard to shake, no known anti-bodies have been developed (so far), seems to get more expensive as time goes on (space in shed is often used up ).

If you don't have the bug, try to avoid at all costs, then your sunny days can be spend doing whatever your heart desires, verses cussing at a broken piece of equipment with a rain storm on the horizon.

If you get the hay bug, there is a great group of fellow guys & gals :wub: that suffer that disease here on HT to help you with your guaranteed situations/problems/bugs/etc.

Warning: the hay bug can give you a looonnnnng learning curve, that has brought the strongest human down to their knees (maybe more than once).

Larry


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

r82230 said:


> With COVID-19 you get the disease it seems to happens once, then you develop anti-bodies (supposedly) to prevent re-infection.
> 
> With the hay bug, once you get it it's hard to shake, no known anti-bodies have been developed (so far), seems to get more expensive as time goes on (space in shed is often used up ).
> 
> ...


That's the problem, there are no ANTIHAYOTICS developed yet, it's proven to be a very tough bug to defeat!


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

I would have thought it was more akin to a substance abuse......I'm a hayalolic with a 40 year addiction...


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

No hope for you then Hay Diddle!


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## Cranehand181 (Apr 16, 2020)

Thank you all for the advice and farm life wisdom. Out of all of the farm jobs I've done, haying is certainly #1 for most enjoyable. Tobacco would be at the bottom ha!


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

well it is too late your already infected


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Cranehand181 said:


> Thank you all for the advice and farm life wisdom. Out of all of the farm jobs I've done, haying is certainly #1 for most enjoyable. Tobacco would be at the bottom ha!


Cropping tobacco ain't no fun for sure, but pickin' Cotton would have be at the bottom if we was to go back a few decades.....I think it's the main reason we have so many Democrats here 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do


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## BisonMan (Apr 27, 2020)

Alot of great comments in here. I had to go back to you original post.

I am in a similar situation, except my Dad passed a few years ago. We were tobacco farmers until about 15 years ago, after that my dad just cash cropped it and then rented some to a high value crop which was tough on him but was the right financial decision and personal decision as he was having health problems.

I think a family meeting is in order as one other poster mentioned. What I found happened with us is that an older brother ended up cash cropping and doing some chores with his boy. He was getting an hourly wage, but 1/2 price compared to his union job. But he did it because he liked the work. At the same time though, he had an expectation of getting some sweat equity or understanding from the family of what he had built. In a way the family was looking at the numbers and not seeing the benefit and it causes some friction as nobody is getting what they want. You need a path to ownership, maybe not your first year but soon after. That way, you know that you are getting that sweat equity when you're making hay and missing time with family or just relaxation.

I think if you want to keep that property in the family or for your family is the big question. This is where the family meeting comes into play. Really if you're gonna work it, you need some assurance it'll be yours. Family deals can be hard to make, and your brother won't want to just give it away. You're at an advantage in that your father is alive and wants to pass it down, wants to see it continue, and children have a lot more respect for their parents decisions than taking orders from siblings.

Sometimes it actually feels easier buying your own little plot of land. I just bought 50 acres workable this winter with a nice building site and some old outbuildings am putting down some hay, Most of its custom this year, I'll be sowing it and am thinking of getting into hay because in theory my family has another 200+ acres that I could have some access to at some point. Still its hard to compete on numbers against the big boys renting or share cropping. Point is make the deal with your Dad now rather than your brother some day down the line.

I'm 40 and moved away to the city for a long time. I think if you're keen now you might have even more interest in 5 years. A lot of farmers I know will always say "oh you got it good with that union job or that professional job - don't farm!". I get it, the pressure of farming is tough, but the personal reward can be worth it, and its hard to get it out of your blood. Corporate life for me is overrated.


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