# Bale scale



## Chuck (Dec 14, 2014)

Im looking to put a scale on my John Deere 348 baler. I sell most of my hay by the bale,so i think this investment would pay for its self rather quickly . Any ideas would be appreciated .


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Been thinking of the same thing but decided to buy a electronic platform scale instead. That way i can weigh feed totes too.

http://unclewiener.com/product/new-4x4-6600-lbs-floor-scale-wired-sc6600/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Chuck said:


> Im looking to put a scale on my John Deere 348 baler. I sell most of my hay by the bale,so i think this investment would pay for its self rather quickly . Any ideas would be appreciated .


Now Chuck you done went and lost me on this one.....not the scale part but the justification part  but if ya make one, I'd like to duplicate it on my baler....Bluetooth please with it interfaced into my pressure management system  so I can change on the fly


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

So you want the scale to better keep your bales heavy enough to make people think they’re getting a good buy but light enough for you to make more money? Why not just carry a spring scale and check one occasionally?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I've been around small sq balers since the early 60's. Once bale weight is adjusted I can't visualize bale weights changing significantly to justify the cost of an on board scale on baler. Granted later in the afternoon as sun gets lower in the sky bale weights will normally increase in weight.

What would you guess this type scale would cost? What weight do your average bales weight?


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Crop type, moisture content, bale density, and bale length are the primary factors that play into the bale weight. Is your plan to adjust chamber pressure to change bale density as needed to increase/decrease bale weight? Are you dropping, kicking, or accumulating behind your 348?

I'm not sure I can see where this would 'pay for itself', unless you sell everything by the bale and your customers can't judge weight.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I think it's a good idea and I would have one if they cheaper. I wish I had large fields of consistent crops with clear skies above but I don't. The scale in conjunction with a moisture meter would be a great management tool when you bale several thousand without touching any.

There was a company out west that built them and moisture meters/humidity alarms. Lightning B maybe? Price was several thousand dollars and that was quite a while ago but with new tech it may be different.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If dropping should be able to put a strain sensor on the chute support chains and calibrate it for a the angle and bale length to estimate the weight or at least when it’s climbing/falling.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

If you are selling by the bale and not ton, I'm lost on the pay back. But, if you are using it to get a better handle on your tonnage of hay remove per acre or selling by the ton, I'm onboard completely.

I weigh a fair amount of my hay for those two reasons (tons per acre and selling by ton). By knowing a much closer weight (in tons) removed per acre I can calculate the amount of fertilizer to put back on the field, verses using the SWAG method. This doesn't eliminate the need for soil testing, but helps reduce the number of soil tests that I feel I need to do each year. Both can save a buck or two, with less fertilizer (not so much guessing) and less cost of soil tests.

For a close idea of tonnage per acre a simple bathroom scales works (as long as you aren't similar to me, the ideal weight for someone say 7' 4" tall  ). Where you can weigh yourself, then weight yourself with a bale in hand (small square only I believe).

Perhaps you can take a look at some big square balers that have the weighing system installed for an idea or two.

If you come up with something, I might be interested, because it could be faster than my present methods.

Larry


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

I remember a regional farm magazine (perhaps the Washington Farmer-Stockman) did an article a number of years ago about a retired Boeing engineer who turned hay farmer who designed and built his own baler mounted scale. He used sophisticated electronic scales and hydraulic dampening equipment to accomplish his objective. Like a fool I did not save the information and also have no idea if the fellow is even still in the game.

Barring something like the above, getting really accurate weights would seem unlikely.

The best you might shoot for from a practical standpoint is what many call a scale but is really a reference. We used to have a Freeman 200W with such a unit in it (factory) and currently my New Holland Self Propelled small square has such a unit on it in a homemade version.

The mechanism (if it deserves being called that) is a cable ran back to the bale chute and as the bale forces it lower against a spring holding the chute level the opposite end of the cable is fastened to an arm that is your indicator. Mine and the other crude ones I have seen usually have a dial behind the pointer (arm).

Along with the spring holding the bale chute up there should also be a automotive shock absorber to reduce the wild gyrations caused by the baler bouncing across the field.

At best these so called scales are rough indicators and the best way to calibrate them is to set your target weight with the pointer sticking straight up.

To gain more accuracy merely buying and installing a nice scale designed for stationary work will produce disappointing results and maybe a blown load cell without some very good dampening of some sort.

If we get dew, it can roll in pretty fast and as it burns off or our "night air" we normally get instead burns off with a vengeance and I have literally been adjusting bale weight each round at times.

The advantage of having a good system is not lost on me. The location of my indicator on my SP could be better because there is no hold or memory to it. Unless you are looking at the moment before a bale falls you have missed what it displayed. And also I should work with some different springs to see if I can widen the window of sensitivity in the bale weight range that is my target. The shock absorber on the "scales" I have seen are all installed where they are stretching out as the bale is being weighed. They might work better in compression mode.

Beyond the business of scales, a good pressure gauge you can read on the go is quite helpful. Get as large a face as you can afford and insist on a liquid fill. On one baler I ran two gauges, one at the pump and a second removed to the very front of the baler and also installed an amber clearance light to shine on it at night. Once you are set up balling watch for a pressure change. I find with my balers that as the hay changes gradually you take say a 25 psi drop and ball park put 50 psi back to land your weight close to where you were prior to it falling off. I would not use that method with rapid changes in baling conditions however. I find no joy in digging out a plugged chamber.

Three44s

Three44s


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

http://www.scaledynasty.com/Hay-Bale-Scale-p/bale-scale.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs5uiysyy2gIVCF6GCh3ChwmLEAQYASABEgIQfvD_BwE


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

This doesn't answer your bale scale question, but we really wrestled with giving the customer an xx-lb bale of hay. That was near impossible from day to day cutting to cutting. Depending on the bale humidity, the weight varied and weight was unpredictable.

What we did was set a bale length and that's how we sell - vs weight.

OTOH, it might be possible, with a moisture meter - given a set length bale, to weigh these consistent bales at different humidity's and correlate that to a consistent weight. So at x percent moisture, given the constant length, you can predict the weight from a chart. I don't know.

We sell by the bale too. Here is the length, here is the price. What's the weight, don't know, but can guarantee the bales aren't puff balls regardless.

Good luck,

Bill


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I forgot to attach this piece (one page out of 71 from MSU, Dr. Kim Cassida piece), that shows the density ranges (lb/ft2) for different bale sizes, let alone how moisture can effect bale weight.

Larry


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I have gone with the theory that I can pretty well tell the bale weight by how much I have to crank the thrower up to get the bales where I want them in the wagon!


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Every thing Three44's said applies to my conditions. But all dry land grain hay so the soil is dry,but we do get dew most of the time as only 10 to 20 miles from the coast. The lenght is also affected by the changing moisture and operator adjustment of preasure to compensate for moister changes.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

I would have to pass on a bale scale costing $3K and my customers have to request buying by the bale. I only let small quantities go that way in any case.

But I am spoiled as we have our own rock pit on the ranch and there are certified truck scales there. My customers like it very much as well.

I shoot for an efficient package as consistent as we can make within reason. In a two tie 16x18x46-48" we normally average about 95 # sweated out in alfalfa. It harrow-beds well, stacks well and does not cripple up our customers beyond a reasonable degree although it is pushing it.

Best regards

Three44s


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> So you want the scale to better keep your bales heavy enough to make people think they're getting a good buy but light enough for you to make more money? Why not just carry a spring scale and check one occasionally?


Yep, use an over sized spring scale to dial in the weight. Toss a 2'x2'x3/4" plywood on the ground to have a level surface for the scale. After which wood and scale is bungee to twine box. Works wonders.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't use it but my baler came with a heavy fish scale with a hook that will grab both strings the previous owner used.

I bought a little digital luggage scale for 2$ at the dollar store to do the same thing with. Used it a couple of times, doubt it would survive regular use. Edit Link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40kg-10g-88Lb-Digital-Electronic-Luggage-Scale-LCD-Display-Portable-Travel-Handheld-Weighing-Luggage-Suitcase-Bag/32791662641.html?src=google&albslr=206068201&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&source=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifplala%7D%7BifdbmBM&albch=DID%7D&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&albcp=658707750&albag=38901860132&slnk=&trgt=61865531738&plac=&crea=en32791662641&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwh7zWBRCiARIsAId9b4qJjknBNyOyI_kF3D3uJv-3WC_tRgdCIFk72K12v9Zg9wUN3PKF4lIaAoV_EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



weatherman said:


> Yep, use an over sized spring scale to dial in the weight. Toss a 2'x2'x3/4" plywood on the ground to have a level surface for the scale. After which wood and scale is bungee to twine box. Works wonders.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

slowzuki said:


> I don't use it but my baler came with a heavy fish scale with a hook that will grab both strings the previous owner used.


When you use the fish scales, do the bales get longer and heavier as time goes on?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, couldn't help myself, thinking of some of my fishing buddies and THEIR fish stories.

Larry


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

What's extra funny about that is last year the people unloading baskets were complaining about random giant bales that broke as soon as they handled them. Sure guys, just stop breaking bales, nice excuse. Well I finally saw one! It must have been 10 ft long! Ok well maybe it was only 6 ft long lol. The teeth on the measuring wheel roller were worn out and it would stall out and not tie.



r82230 said:


> When you use the fish scales, do the bales get longer and heavier as time goes on?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> Sorry, couldn't help myself, thinking of some of my fishing buddies and THEIR fish stories.
> 
> Larry


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## Mopar (Apr 11, 2018)

I built my quarter bale turner in the early nineties with electronic scales and also fitted a electric motor on the density controller . This enables me to increase or decrease the weight from the drivers seat on the Go. When I start bailing there is no stopping until I finish unless there's a breakdown.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Mopar said:


> I built my quarter bale turner in the early nineties with electronic scales and also fitted a electric motor on the density controller . This enables me to increase or decrease the weight from the drivers seat on the Go. When I start bailing there is no stopping until I finish unless there's a breakdown.


Got any pictures? I'll like to see your set up, sounds pretty unique.

Larry


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

I will second that!

I believe it was my father's first baler (an IH model 55T) that had a star wheel on a moving arm that adjusts hydraulic tension. So the operator gives the coarse adjustment periodically and the star wheel fine tunes it on the go.

Three44s


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## Mopar (Apr 11, 2018)

r82230 said:


> Got any pictures? I'll like to see your set up, sounds pretty unique.
> 
> Larry





r82230 said:


> Got any pictures? I'll like to see your set up, sounds pretty unique. Larry


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## Mopar (Apr 11, 2018)

r82230 said:


> Got any pictures? I'll like to see your set up, sounds pretty unique.
> 
> Larry


Using a 12 volt wiper out of a car.Has to be mounted on rubber so you can run reverse power to it.To do that you need to have a 6 pin toggle switch connect positive and negative to the two centre pins.Do the same with the top two pins.On the bottom pins connect the two wires opposite way to the top wires Join the two left wires together and join to negative wire on the wiper motor.Join the two right wires together and join the positive wire to motor.This gives you forward and reverse on the wiper motor hopefully


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice job....for clarification Larry, the motor has to be isolated from the chassis of the baler in order to reverse the polarity as the ground lug is "common" to the chassis of the wiper motor. By isolating it, you won't blow fuses ( if there are fuses  please fuse it) when reversing polarity. His description of the switch wiring is spot on for most switches. I would use, if you can find them, a DPDT momentary switch for this application.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Welcome to haytalk Mopar....if ya can, update your profile to include a somewhat geographical location


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## Mopar (Apr 11, 2018)

Thanks for the welcome somedevildawg. Two things I didn't mention in previous post was the connecting shaft.I used a piece of compressor hose with good hose clamps,make sure the two metal shafts aren't touching. The other is a good size pressure gauge you can see from the drivers seat


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Sounds similar to the way the bale thrower electric controls are setup.


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