# Round Up Ready Alalfa -- Worth the Cost?



## CowPunchinSodBuster (Aug 17, 2016)

Looking for opinions from those that have planted Round Up Ready Alfalfa. I have been fighting an infestation of Curly Dock in western Colorado and looking for something that can help me keep it out of my crop. I am considering it this fall or next spring, but the seed is twice the cost of other varieties of alfalfa. Has anyone had any good experience with it? I am having a hard time finding any reviews on it other than from the manufacturer. If you have planted and harvested it: How many tons/acre are you yielding? How many cuttings per season do you get where you live? Have you seen an increase in value? Is it cost effective to spray with herbicide? Would you plant it again? Did you plant it in the fall or in the spring? Thanks for any information or opinions you have.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

We had a portion of one of our fields that had Kochia weed in it. We tried keeping it disked down one whole year, but that did not seem to work. Planted that section in RR, and now it is our best looking field. I just with the rest of our hay fields look as nice. It was the only way we were able to get rid of the weeds. This is the second year for the RR, I don't remember how much we got last year off it, but this year for our first cutting we got 20 tons off of 12 acres, and 14 tons second cutting. We should have gotten more our second cutting but we were not able to get the water back on it when we should have due to equipment failures. We have not cut the 3rd cutting yet.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Really like RR alfalfa.....tonnage might be a tick less but not enough to worry about with the weed control...I have to spray for hoppers here so adding gly is not a big deal....would not raise straight conventional....in a mix yes, but straight no....here.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If they ever come up with RR orchard grass then I'd give RR alfalfa a try, till then still conventional here other than LH resistant.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I can understand if your selling hay that RR alfalfa would be a great way to go to guarantee no weeds or grass. I really have no use for it as I keep all my straight alfalfa for my own cattle. With beef cattle its not a problem if there is a few weeds or grass in it. Also I feel that a good stand of alfalfa will choke out most weeds. I feel that as the stand naturally declines is when the grass and weeds move in and that is time to break it up and redo it. The price of RR seed just doesn't seem worth it to me.

During the first year of planting would be nice to have RR to control the weeds until the alfalfa is big enough to compete.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

IHCman said:


> I can understand if your selling hay that RR alfalfa would be a great way to go to guarantee no weeds or grass. I really have no use for it as I keep all my straight alfalfa for my own cattle. With beef cattle its not a problem if there is a few weeds or grass in it. Also I feel that a good stand of alfalfa will choke out most weeds. I feel that as the stand naturally declines is when the grass and weeds move in and that is time to break it up and redo it. The price of RR seed just doesn't seem worth it to me.
> 
> During the first year of planting would be nice to have RR to control the weeds until the alfalfa is big enough to compete.


Probably not as far North as you are....but here the growing season is long, always a drought during some period of the season, and and very hot which encourages weed or nuisance grass growth. Here, it is just hopeless to try and grow conventional without a bunch of weeds.

Regards, Mike


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Worth every penny to have rr alfalfa


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I think where it really shines is at establishment in my lifetime on my farm and on other farms. All too often 4 weeks after planting an infestation of something like ragweed or barnyard grass or crabgrass over take a stand of Alfalfa and ruin it. Roundup Ready Alfalfa can save the day there and that's why I switched. I am going to grow straight Alfalfa and spray with Roundup for about a year to a year-and-a-half and then I am going to discontinue sprayed with Roundup and overseed with Orchard Grass to get some mixed hay and if at some point down the road the mixed stand is overtaken by weeds hesitate to respray with Roundup even if I do lose some Orchard Grass


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

If you want perfect clean fields of alfalfa it's worth the money in my experience.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I have thought about planting RR alfalfa in new fields just to exhaust the legacy seed bed of weeds while generating revenue from the fields and fixing nitrogen. After the alfalfa plays out, shifting to Timothy or orchard grass.

Question is - is it in inevidtable that somewhere along the way you will arrive with a field of roundup resistant weeds with RR alfalfa? I'd like to leave the fields on our farm to my kids in better shape than I found them. Concerned about repeated use of roundup.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I have been using it for several years. It is worth the price to me.

I am changing varieties this year and going to Nemastar which is carried by the local co op. The reason that I switched is tonnage and longevity. Nemastar has a projected life expectancy of 28 cuttings. We get three per year. I don't recall the brand we have used before but the fields are weak after four years, and the tonnage isn't the best.
As to the price, if your practices are similar to ours and you plow, disk, harrow, level, and corrugate, you are already in it over $300/acre anyway. The added few dollars doesn't make much difference.

We have cleaned up Russian Knapweed, white top, kochia, foxtail, and several other varieties of weeds.

It works in our program.


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## youngbaler (Apr 9, 2015)

Leeve96, in my area roundup hardly kills anything alone... We have resistant ragweed and water hemp bad. It seemed like the good farmers lasted a few extra years without resistance but now almost everyone had them. If your in an area with tons of corn and beans you will likely eventually have rr resistance.

This year I figured I would plant some conventional beans cause we basically spray our roundup beans conventional, so I split a field half roundup half conventional. Sprayed it the same except for roundup on one half... The half with roundup is pretty clean the conventional half is a wreck!! So we have concluded roundup doesn't work alone on some stuff but still kills a lot of weeds we forgot we even had lol!!

Now my alfalfa is all conventional sprayed it once with raptor after planting when it was about 8". Haven't had any weeds to speak of since that very first cut....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I like it. It has solved the problem of having a wasted first year establishment of conventional alfalfa fighting weeds. I've only used wl brand and this being the 4th year it has really begun to get thin. My cousin also has noticed his field of the same age getting thin. So while you might gain a year production in the beginning you might lose at the end of stand life. But in the middle it's great. Especially if you are using ditch water that is increasingly bringing weed seed with it.


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## CowPunchinSodBuster (Aug 17, 2016)

First, thanks for all the replies!

Seems like everyone that has replied has been happy with it, or at least not thought it a total sham. It also seems that the longevity of the alfalfa stand itself is the only drawback in current varieties.

I have had some concerns about resistant weeds becoming an issue, but I have sprayed glyphosate around the edges of my fields and on ditch banks for some time now and not really noticed anything it wont take down. The only problem is that when I knock down the taller weeds such as kochia, there is always something there to take its place. I figure that in a healthy stand of alfalfa, the hay will choke out anything that might try to come up.

Has anyone had any customers hesitant to purchase your hay that has been treated with glyphosate? I sell to a few individuals that have a milk cow or two and they have mentioned that they would be concerned feeding their cow GMO hay. We always hold back a steer or two to fill our own freezers and I personally would have no problem eating one that had been fattened up on perfectly clean aflalfa.

Does anyone have a particular strain they have had better luck with than others? There are about 5 different sellers of RR seed in my area and they all sell a different variety. Just curious what has worked best for those that have had success.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

My neighbor has had the nemastar for three years, and the tonnage is significantly better than what I have had.


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## MFSuper90 (Jun 26, 2015)

For me rr doesn't pencil out. I'd rather have a hopper resident variety over RR. For $200 a bag at 2.5 AC per bag I'm right around $80 per acre to put conventional in the ground. I figured $180 for RR. That's $100 difference. $100 AC buys a lot of selectmax and beuterac. Not to mention that you'd still have to factor in the cost of spraying glyphosate. I found that the Alfalfa can pay for itself on the second cut of the first year this way.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I planted my first field of RR alfalfa this spring. The variety I planted was also leafhopper resistant and was $410 a bag. For me it was well worth the extra seed cost for RR because this particular field is very weedy with a large seed bank of annual and perennial weeds that would make it about impossible to keep conventional alfalfa weed free. Situations like this is where I see RR alfalfa being worth the extra cost.

In fields that don't have perennial weed problems or other weeds that are difficult to control in conventional alfalfa I don't see RR being worth the extra cost. For grasses and most annual broad leafs there are chemicals that work very well. Select or poast for grasses and pursuit, raptor, and 2,4db(butyrac) for annual broad leafs. I have personally used select, pursuit and 2,4db with very good results and am able to keep convential alfalfa essentially weed free so I don't see myself switching completely to RR alfalfa but I do think there are situations where it is a very good option.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> I have thought about planting RR alfalfa in new fields just to exhaust the legacy seed bed of weeds while generating revenue from the fields and fixing nitrogen. After the alfalfa plays out, shifting to Timothy or orchard grass.
> Question is - is it in inevidtable that somewhere along the way you will arrive with a field of roundup resistant weeds with RR alfalfa? I'd like to leave the fields on our farm to my kids in better shape than I found them. Concerned about repeated use of roundup.


 I am transitioning to Roundup Ready alfalfa. I have the same concern as you ,so even in my Roundup Ready stands , I will spray with Prowl H2O, Monsanto has always said adding some residual to the program will help to avoid resistance.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Worth every penny. Some weeds in some areas are becoming resistant. None so far in our area.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

leeave96 said:


> Question is - is it in inevidtable that somewhere along the way you will arrive with a field of roundup resistant weeds with RR alfalfa? I'd like to leave the fields on our farm to my kids in better shape than I found them. Concerned about repeated use of roundup.


Not inevitable at all. If you see a weed trying to grow in your field of RR, pull it up. The truth is you probably already have RR resistance in weeds like mares tail and pigweed. 2-4d still smokes both of these.

Regards, Mike


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

We have a RR pivot of alfalfa, would I buy it again? No- we are putting up mostly baleage for our cattle. We could have saved a lot of money on a standard variety of alfalfa. We sprayed once last year, some spots this summer. The field looks great though!


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

If the weeds are edible by your cattle, RR makes no sense.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

I have never used RR alfalfa. I have had RR beans for 20 years now and corn for over 10 and I always felt we were way too dependent on round up. Now I know we were too dependent, I will never buy another RR soybean and only have RR corn for grass control. Round up doesn't kill any broad leaves here and now I have PPO resistant water hemp. So, all beans will be either Liberty or Extend (probably LL because I have water hemp that got past dicamba in corn this year. Alfalfa has always been conventional for me. I plant at Labor Day, so weeds are not an issue in establishment. I spray the next spring before 1st cut with Raptor to clean up new stands. Spray generic select with the leafhopper spray usually in July to clean up fall grasses and spray established stands with Dimetric before breaking dormancy to clean up winter annuals. Total herbicide program is less than $70 per acre for a four year stand and going to RR seed would add another $80/acre for seed cost. No brainer, not worth it for me.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

In hindsight I wish I'd never used RR corn just RR beans and conv corn in rotation.I have one farm that I did this and I have way less weed issues then the farms that were back to back RR.

I never have used RR alfalfa.


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

I've debated on using RR alfalfa. But after talking to some others around here and looking at there stands I wouldn't touch it. The cost don't pencil out. From what I've seen here is after the first application the stand thins somewhat. So a lot of guys tried planting more lbs. per acre. I just spray early in the spring before the alfalfa starts and the weeds are starting and I never fall water. My stands are as clean as any RR patch.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

3string said:


> I've debated on using RR alfalfa. But after talking to some others around here and looking at there stands I wouldn't touch it. The cost don't pencil out. From what I've seen here is after the first application the stand thins somewhat. So a lot of guys tried planting more lbs. per acre. I just spray early in the spring before the alfalfa starts and the weeds are starting and I never fall water. My stands are as clean as any RR patch.


That would not work here.....here, alfalfa does not go completely dormant. My RR alfalfa does not thin after first spray....you might lose a few hundred plants per 10 acres but that is all.....just the plants that are non-RR. You sure couldn't tell it with the naked eye. With typically a long growing season, typically over 50" of rainfall, and typically a very hot and humid summer atmosphere, weeds and grasses flourish....I still have to hand pull a little marestail and chop and spot spray Palmer amaranth root bases. And Foxtail is the worst nightmare....folks that don't live this far South have absolutely no idea what a nightmare that stuff is here.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

3string said:


> I've debated on using RR alfalfa. But after talking to some others around here and looking at there stands I wouldn't touch it. The cost don't pencil out. From what I've seen here is after the first application the stand thins somewhat. So a lot of guys tried planting more lbs. per acre. I just spray early in the spring before the alfalfa starts and the weeds are starting and I never fall water. My stands are as clean as any RR patch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 it is important to do the first spray close to the Third trifoliate. Monsanto tells you if it is done substantially later there can be thinning.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Really like the rr alfalfa on this farm. Never had clean alfalfa before, nice to know I can spray when weeds are present if needed. Usually don't have to.


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

Another take is you eliminate sales to GMO sensitive feeders w/RR hay, dairy and grass fed. Maybe thats OK?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> it is important to do the first spray close to the Third trifoliate. Monsanto tells you if it is done substantially later there can be thinning.


I only sprayed the first year I had the RR alfalfa. This year we missed having it sprayed before first cutting due to rain, rain and more rain. I had it sprayed right after 1st cutting. I wonder if this is why it seemed to have gotten thinner awful fast this year?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

azmike said:


> Another take is you eliminate sales to GMO sensitive feeders w/RR hay, dairy and grass fed. Maybe thats OK?


It depends on your market. I don't sell to many dairies. Mostly horsey people. I don't usually disclose that it's RR alfalfa unless they ask (no one has asked). I do disclose if they are feeding livestock meant for butcher or milking. I've only had one question it. And she was more concerned about the roundup itself then the plant actually being GMO.


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

azmike said:


> Another take is you eliminate sales to GMO sensitive feeders w/RR hay, dairy and grass fed. Maybe thats OK?


There was a lot of RR hay sitting at the ports at one time. The Asian market found out a lot of the hay was RR and didn't want it. Some guys lost a lot of money.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

3string said:


> There was a lot of RR hay sitting at the ports at one time. The Asian market found out a lot of the hay was RR and didn't want it. Some guys lost a lot of money.


One of those guys was quoted as being "bound for the top" in the hay export business. I wonder how he is doing now? Maybe he made enough to get his own phone number.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Where we are, the RR alfalfa has worked really well. I seeded very heavily, sprayed at about 6" height, and have only sprayed once since in 2 years. I have zero weeds and a very good crop so far. This year my first cut was 2 tons per acre, the second cut 1.7, the third 1.6 and I will get a forth and guessing 1.50, ... depending. For this area, this is probably a record.

RR alfalfa isn't worth it if the producer is not up to snuff on all of the growing angles, that is, the science involved. For example, if one's field is very low on magnesium, and the farmer "throws out some RR seed," and his crop is poor, then RR is not going to be much better. If one has a very, very deep understanding of how plants grow, then RR is most likely a very good choice. If not, then RR is just another unknown factor that leads to confusion.

I'm thinking of a back-yard mechanic with an old car that hasn't had a valve adjustment in years, has a worn-out transmission, and a leaky rear-end. What does he say? "I tried that synthetic oil, and it never did nothin' for me... "


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

One of the best aspects for me with RR crops is getting rid of nuisance grasses....like Quack grass. It takes a few years, but is a sure way to rid one of this highly invasive grass. You basically starve the root system out by denying it photosynthesis. It is nice to be able to clean up a field while being productive as with RR Alfalfa.

Regards, Mike


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

For me it shines where you know you are going to have a lot of weed pressure. Between having high fertility due to having applied a heavy amount of manure and knowledge of what weeds are present being able to establish the alfalfa stand is key. We have a lot of cockel and pigweed along with the typical quack grass. I usually only end up spraying once. I have seen where it shines. And I agree with Hugh, it takes a producer who has all aspects of raising a crop of alfalfa figured out to see how it would work for them.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Widairy said:


> For me it shines where you know you are going to have a lot of weed pressure. Between having high fertility due to having applied a heavy amount of manure and knowledge of what weeds are present being able to establish the alfalfa stand is key. We have a lot of cockel and pigweed along with the typical quack grass. I usually only end up spraying once. I have seen where it shines. And I agree with Hugh, it takes a producer who has all aspects of raising a crop of alfalfa figured out to see how it would work for them.


This past spring I seeded 20#/acre of rr seed in a field. Prior to seeding it I plowed and then disked it twice. Following that I applied between 25 and 30 tons per acre of cow manure. I followed that up with two more rounds with the disk, a round with the roller harrow, two rounds with the level and then seeded it. The stand is outstanding right now. We took the first cut in July and are almost ready for the second cut. 
Soil tests will be done this fall and we will get it right next spring. This is the first time that I have had anything other than grass in this particular field. We planted to grass when we bought the place, just to clean it up with milestone, telar and some other stuff. So far, so good.
I had been stockpiling manure for several years, and that field needed organic matter pretty bad. I had been packing it into a little draw behind the corrals kind of like you would with a silage pit. The draw ran out to some class six ground, think sagebrush and desert, so there was no worry of it getting into any moving water.
We had barley in one field this year, and following barley harvest it got ripped and disked. We intend to do the exact same thing with it, and then plant Nemastar RR alfalfa in the spring of the year


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

D,nt think we will see rr Lucerne in oz any time soon, no greener problem the cotton guys have bolguard and there's rr canola. The only thing l have to offer is I think the seed cost is the smallest part of growing Lucerne. For all the hay and feed that you get off it ,it takes a lot of beating, here I try for 5 cuts of hay ,then I run store lambs ,probably show call them feeder lambs.same as beef job,usually run 10 to 15 lambs to the acre.if anyone need anymore info on that glad to add more but probably better in the sheep forum waldo


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