# Dry Down Question



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

You've upgraded from the old sickle mower or sickle haybine to a fancy discbine. Now you can cut in the rain, after a rain or early, late or at 3am with the heaviest of dews.

I'm thinking the goal of conditioning the hay is to save a day, get the horse hay dry and ready to bale before the color washes out and the price appearance with it and ahead of the next rain storm.

It is Monday afternoon. I'm off work early to cut my grass hay or alfalfa with the discbine. Halfway to the fields, sky opens up rain comes down in sheets. Hay is ready, any more waiting and I've got over ripe hay. Next two days are supposed to be sunny and clear. Gotta cut and everything I read says a discbine will cut damp/wet hay - no problem.  So I go ahead a cut throughout the evening - even as the rain tapers off and into the night as the dew comes down hard. Got my hay cut and conditioned but.....

Have I really saved a day of dry down? Am I going to end up with quality hay?

When you condition rained-on or heavy dew soaked hay - just because you can cut it with a discbine vs a sickle haybine, are you really saving any time? Will the hay be OK and dry out - no problem? Are you effectively conditioning the hay (either rollers or impellers) ?

I can understand and and appreciate the more harsh environments that would otherwise clog a haybine - and being better able to cut around one's day job work schedule is a definite advantage, but are you gaining any time by doing it.

So I cut and conditioned on Monday with the rain and heavy dew. Tuesday and Wednesday forecast is sunny and clear. Thursday is more rain. Can I cut wet in Monday, ted on Tuesday and bale on Wednesday and have dry/quality hay in the barn before another rain comes on Thursday?

What is your experience?

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Here, and I say here because everybody has different haymaking sub climates. Mine changes in a mile from very light sand to heavy clay. Anyways I don't even like to mow with a heavy dew on, in a normal cutting it seems to leave more clumps as it doesn't flow as good under the curtain, but I have a 13 footer and the outside two turtles have to throw it in for the rollers to grab it. If I have heavy first cutting that is down I'll mow late afternoons as it has to be dry or it ropes up on the outsides and no amount of tedding will get rid of that.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

The way I see it, there isn't much difference in dry-down time between sickle style and discbine style mowers if both have conditioners. The discbines are nicer since you can mow fast and in more adverse conditions, but that doesn't always result in better quality hay.

I typically try to mow my hay in the morning when the dew is just about off. There are several posts about this from people that know a lot more of the details, but the general idea (in my opinion) is that the plant will have the stomata on the leaves open during the day allowing moisture to escape the plant. By doing this, it helps to drop the moisture content of the hay down low enough that respiration is stopped ASAP to limit the amount of nutrients that the plant uses. These nutrients are normally pulled form the soil, but once the hay is cut, the hay will use up the reserves it has built up.

Mowing while the hay is wet or during the rain probably isn't going to save you any drying time, but if you can ted out the hay sooner (since the hay is already mowed) it might save some time there.

All that being said, I have mowed hay at 9-10 o'clock at night with a heavy dew because that was the only time I had to mow it and get it in the barn. I didn't notice any "savings" in the drying time, but I also didn't have to take a half day off of work. The constraints of a full time job (or other non-farm activities) come in to play sometimes.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If you mow soaking wet hay - dew, rain, or otherwise - you're going to make your drying time LONGER unless you have time available (and a tedder available) to ted it as soon as possible.

If a discbine is going to save you drying time, it's mostly going to be in the fact that you were able to finish mowing a few hours earlier and take advantage of more sun, wind, and/or dry air.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

From reading some of HayWilson's and others' posts and explanations, and IF I understand correctly&#8230;Hay should be mowed with 4 or so hours of sunlight left in the day to stop the plant's respiration? If you mow in rainy/dreary conditions on day 1 in hopes that the sun will come out on day 2 and bale on day 3&#8230;won't the quality of the hay suffer greatly as the plant will continue its respiration during day 1, night 1, and into day two (maybe 30 hours or more total) and cause the plant's nutrients and subsequently the hay's quality to suffer greatly? Hence the old saying: "make hay while the sun shines"?
73, Mark


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

As has been mentioned we all have our own local micro climate to work with.

There is a good supply or humid conditions where the humidity never during the 24 hour day will go below 60%

We have others who micro climate will never go above 50% humidity.

What I have dug out of the University publications. This appears to me to be valid. at least HERE.

First off we want to allow enough time for respiration to stop. To do this I need 5 hours of direct sunshine for 5 maybe 6 hours. This will allow the leaves to dry down to less than 40% Moisture and the respiration in the leaves will be done for the day.

To accomplish this HERE I need 5 hours of sunshine.

To cure hay down to the magic 20% baling moisture involves has three criteria. 
We need pan evaporation. The higher the pan evaporation the faster the drying. Dah.

Looking at my total Pan evaporation to dry hay

For a 0.9T/A yield I need 0.72" of pan evaporation. For a windrow covering 10% of the ground.
For 1.1T/A yield I need 1.14" of pan evaporation. For a windrow .covering 10% of the ground.
For a 2.9T/A yield I need 2.36" of pan evaporation for a windrow. covering 10% of the ground.

Now my full width swath covers 77% of the ground out behind the mower conditioner.

For a 0.9T/A yield I need 0.38" of pan evaporation. 
For 1.1T/A yield I need 0.39" of pan evaporation.
For a 2.9T/A yield I need 0.83" of pan evaporation.

Now the Pan evaporation is for the forecast information from AWIS.
For yield I measure the height for bermudagrass hay and a height of alfalfa with a piece of plywood laying on the standing hay.

All three entering arguments are for estimated values. A couple of WAGs. and a SWAG.

HERE we can depend on roughly 2 hours of baling time, between too damp to bale and too dry to bale.

I rake the day before I expect to be able to bale and at first light to allow enough dew to hold the leaves on the stems.

I start baling when the relative humidity down next to the windrow is 70% for small squares and 65% for RBs. I stop baling if/when I see excessive leaf shattering and try again the next day. When I was still a young man I would bale at night. Before I knew what the humidity did for or to the hay. Night baling HERE allowed more than 4 of 5 hours of baling.

Day time baling I plan on 2 hours ( 350 bales an hour ) maybe more but also maybe less.

There are more details that can make us look stupid.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

I have cut with a heavy dew and dry the same day. Never could detect any difference in the drying time. Cutting wit a dew sure is a good way to cleanup the header though. All of the wear surfaces will be shiny clean. Having said that I prefer to cut with no dew. But in extreme cases I have even cut in the rain.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I have found that in grass hay I can usually bale about 48 hours after cutting with conditioning and tedding once if I have favorable drying weather with warm temps and plenty of sun. If I can get the field cut by about 2 pm on day 1, and Ted in the morning of day 2, the afternoon of day 3 I can rake and bale. If it were to rain the day of cutting even though the quality of the hay wouldn't really be hurt I would lose that day of drying and it would take an additional day to dry. I try not to start cutting hay until the dew is starting to burn off.....about 10am most days.....it will still be a little damp but not soaking wet.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

FarmerCline said:


> I have found that in grass hay I can usually bale about 48 hours after cutting with conditioning and tedding once if I have favorable drying weather with warm temps and plenty of sun. If I can get the field cut by about 2 pm on day 1, and Ted in the morning of day 2, the afternoon of day 3 I can rake and bale. If it were to rain the day of cutting even though the quality of the hay wouldn't really be hurt I would lose that day of drying and it would take an additional day to dry. I try not to start cutting hay until the dew is starting to burn off.....about 10am most days.....it will still be a little damp but not soaking wet.


Same here--mow late morning of day 1, ted 12-24 hrs later, bale day 3, maybe day 4. Depends on all the parameters--humidity, sun, temp, ground moisture, crop thickness, and wife.

Ralph


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

My view is that the only thing a MoCo gives you is faster stem dry-down in Bermuda grass and it's absolutely necessary for baling Ryegrass in the spring. If you cut Bermuda grass before it gets too stemy you don't need a MoCo. With T-85 my best window is between 21 & 25 days. Like others I typically mow late morning, ted the next day, and bale on day 3. In the spring I might need another day of drying time. I consider cutting in the rain or with heavy dew just another of the many ways to reduce the quality of your hay.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Mike I have noticed that hay cut with a simple mower will be ready to bale than conditioned hay that is dropped in a windrow.

In theory bermudagrass is 70% leaves & 30% Stems is the reason.

Alfalfa is a different story. The word for alfalfa is the day after mowing the hay loose its moisture through the nearest opening and that is from conditioning.

My MoCo is an early model NH 411. At first I pulled the windrow shaping doors off the machine. That way about 60% of the ground was covered by cut hay. Then I bought the hay spreader kit from NH and settled for 80% ground coverage.

I do still have a tedder but only to beat the leaves off my rain spoiled hay. Those bales are fit only for garden mulch.

I believe the Academic types when they say raking and or tedding will knock off 5% of the leaves, under ideal conditions. Here ideal conditions is at first day light.

I have noticed most custome harvesters like to rake close to noon and then bale soon as the hay has been raked.

When I started to use my MoCo as modified with the hay spreader kit I stopped using a tedder.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Mike120 said:


> My view is that the only thing a MoCo gives you is faster stem dry-down in Bermuda grass and it's absolutely necessary for baling Ryegrass in the spring. If you cut Bermuda grass before it gets too stemy you don't need a MoCo. With T-85 my best window is between 21 & 25 days. Like others I typically mow late morning, ted the next day, and bale on day 3. In the spring I might need another day of drying time. I consider cutting in the rain or with heavy dew just another of the many ways to reduce the quality of your hay.


Oh, I wouldn't say "absolutely" by a longshot... I used to bale a LOT of ryegrass hay in the spring and never even had a conditioner... just a sickle mower and then the drum mower...

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Mike I have noticed that hay cut with a simple mower will be ready to bale than conditioned hay that is dropped in a windrow.
> In theory bermudagrass is 70% leaves & 30% Stems is the reason.
> Alfalfa is a different story. The word for alfalfa is the day after mowing the hay loose its moisture through the nearest opening and that is from conditioning.
> 
> ...


That's one thing I never liked about MoCo's/haybines... and something that never made a lick of sense to me... put a conditioner on the machine to speed up drying, and then shove it all through funnels on the back to dump it in a pile, which slows drying down... stupid IMHO...

I'd rather lay the stuff out as flat and wide as possible... that's really how you get the fastest drying. Once you get it below 50% moisture (wilted flat) and conditions are conducive to minimize leaf loss, rake it up into the final baler-size windrows...

For me here on the Gulf Coast, in mid-summer anyway, that works to basically cutting one day, raking 24 hours later, and baling 24 hours after that. Usually works like a champ and puts up pretty, good smelling, high quality hay.

Don't even get me started on custom guys... most of those guys are IMHO a joke, at least around here... I watch them all the time grow premium bermuda, spinning tons of fertilizer on it all the time, then cut the stuff and leave it on the ground FOR A SOLID WEEK bleaching out in the sun, then come in and rake the stuff RIGHT AHEAD OF THE BALER... and I mean "right ahead"... just stupid, stupid, stupid...

Stuff looks about like wheat straw when they're done... just rolling cardboard and calling it "good hay". Wouldn't give you a plug nickel for it... But guys just line up for it.

The only BAD thing about leaving the hay lay flat is that it can get TOO dry too fast, especially the leaves... and of course the dryer it gets, the more leaves you knock off in subsequent operations. I read somewhere that ideal raking moisture is 50%... which is, visually, "wilted flat" but still green (but parched looking). Once it hits that point, get it in the windrow and let it finish drying there, to minimize the sun bleaching, which turns carotene in the plants (which is a valuable nutrient) into Vitamin D, (which is practically worthless since animals make that themselves in the sun). Getting the hay in the windrow still allows drying to continue (and getting most of it up off the ground and high enough so the wind can get to it) helps dry down while minimizing the amount of hay exposed to direct sunlight...

Works for me anyway...

Later! OL JR


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

The few times I have done Ryegrass, I threw a lot of fertilizer at it and let it go too long. The only time I didn't have drydown problems was when I used a friends MoCo, but I still had choking/plugging problems when I baled it 'cause I didn't have a creeper gear. For me, it wasn't worth the time or effort, so I don't mess with it.

I ran a 9' NH 456 for years and didn't own a tedder. I'd borrow my neighbor's when I needed it which was very seldom. I still think the sickle mower gives a better cut and much better drying conditions. I got the disc mower because I got a really good divorce deal on it and I had taken on some fields that the sickle choked on because they hadn't been hayed for a while. It doesn't lay the grass down as uniform as the sickle and I often need the tedder in the spring and fall. Now that I have a rotary rake instead of my old NH side-delivery I can probably get good drying in the windrow. I didn't try it this year because of the weather.........anyway, with Gulf Coast weather, every year is sort of an experiment and the more tools I have the more chance I have to make decent hay.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

leeave96 said:


> Can I cut wet in Monday, ted on Tuesday and bale on Wednesday and have dry/quality hay in the barn before another rain comes on Thursday?


No.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*I'd rather lay the stuff out as flat and wide as possible... that's really how you get the fastest drying. Once you get it below 50% moisture (wilted flat) and conditions are conducive to minimize leaf loss, rake it up into the final baler-size windrows...*

*For me here on the Gulf Coast, in mid-summer anyway, that works to basically cutting one day, raking 24 hours later, and baling 24 hours after that. Usually works like a champ and puts up pretty, good smelling, high quality hay.*

*Don't even get me started on custom guys... most of those guys are IMHO a joke, at least around here... I watch them all the time grow premium bermuda, spinning tons of fertilizer on it all the time, then cut the stuff and leave it on the ground FOR A SOLID WEEK bleaching out in the sun, then come in and rake the stuff RIGHT AHEAD OF THE BALER... and I mean "right ahead"... just stupid, stupid, stupid...*

*Stuff looks about like wheat straw when they're done... just rolling cardboard and calling it "good hay". Wouldn't give you a plug nickel for it... But guys just line up for it.*

*The only BAD thing about leaving the hay lay flat is that it can get TOO dry too fast, especially the leaves... and of course the dryer it gets, the more leaves you knock off in subsequent operations. I read somewhere that ideal raking moisture is 50%... which is, visually, "wilted flat" but still green (but parched looking). *

All very true.

A good while after Graduating from SWTSTC and serving in the Air Force plus some time back on the farm I read this publication.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

What a revelation. ( ! )!

My Tedder is now obsolete.

I rake at first light at the crack of dawn.

Normally start to bale the following day about 11 am.

Works for me and it probably will work near Shiner.

In the Arid West they need some major management adjustments.

Nothing works when the humidity never gets below 70%.
I have baled hay every month of the year but can not make it a habit.

May 2016 be an improvement over 2015.


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