# Newer lawsuit filed over GM Alfalfa this time on the East Coast and with Monsanto



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Email from California regarding most of the usual suspects in another suit over modified alfalfa. 
This one to stop Monsanto from suing hay and seed growers if some RR genetics are found in Organic fields.

Sounded a little funny but in that it only was to protect organic growers from being taken to court.

Then it regressed into the convoluted arguments found in the California Suit a lot of smoke and mirrors with little heat to show.

Kind of reminds me of the convoluted points of the Brady Bunch on Gun Control.

Right there with the odd ball arguments put up by the Partial Birth Abortion types. 
The PBA types also used bad biology and the proabortions advocates appeared never noticed.


----------



## nwks baler (Jul 18, 2008)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Email from California regarding most of the usual suspects in another suit over modified alfalfa.
> This one to stop Monsanto from suing hay and seed growers if some RR genetics are found in Organic fields.
> 
> Sounded a little funny but in that it only was to protect organic growers from being taken to court.
> ...


Bill have you got a link to the court docs I can't find anything and would like to read them.

Edit: I think I found them. http://www.pubpat.org/assets/files/seed/OSGATA-v-Monsanto-Complaint.pdf


----------



## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

I'll play the side of the organic grower from their business standpoint. If you make a living off of a differentiated product and there is a threat to your differentiation by the possibility of external adulteration you have no choice but to defend against the adulteration. Yes I said possibility, and unfortunately for Monsanto the RR trait contamination has a very good track record for contaminating non-RR crops (granted, corn and beans have a different reproductive cycle than alfalfa) Like it or not there are consumers, especially outside of the USA that will not buy GMO products and will only buy organic, and are paying a premium for non-GMO organic. And, like it or not there are USA farmers who are making their living off of the premium of the organic niche market demand. That puts the organic farmer in the weak position of having to defend his differentiation against a global multinational with lawyers on retainer. The farmer then sees that he can hitch his wagon to the fankin-food whacko's who have the money to battle in court and have a vested interest in his winning anyway. This means that he has his complaint added to the frankin-food folks who add their "scientific" logic to his interests. Then all it takes is one part of the complaint to stop RR alfalfa or simply to protect his organic niche and he wins either way. _"This one to stop Monsanto from suing hay and seed growers if some RR genetics are found in Organic fields. "_
Another threat to the non-RR grower is Monsanto's track record of successfully winning suits against non-RR farmers when their seeds are contaminated with the RR trait and claiming that if it's in your seed the farmer has to pay regardless of how it got there. Before anyone thinks I'm anti GMO let me say that is not the case, I just want to make sure that we as growers look at it from the business side of organics too.


----------



## JacklynC (Jul 7, 2011)

I saw the news on T.V. that mentions about General Motors is again facing lawsuit. In the news they have mentioned that GM is going through a class-action case from owners of 2007 and 2008 Impalas. The lawsuit alleges that a rear end defect causes wheels to wear out prematurely. General Motors addressed the rear end problem for Impalas sold as police vehicles in 2008, but has not dealt with consumer-owned models. GM could hand out hundreds of thousands if the suit works. They failed to inform them of a rear-end problem that causes tires to prematurely wear out.they must be responsible for that because it may lead to accidents. Here is the proof: GM faces class action lawsuits over excessive tire wear


----------



## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

I have no problem with the GMO seeds, I just don't want to pay big M when my crop is turned into a GMO seed. I don't raise any alfalfa for seed, so this won't have much impact on my operation. It's the whole concept of when my field of non-gmo beans gets cross-pollinated with the neighbors RR beans and then when I replant I now have those RR traits and have to pay Monsanto as well as lose the non-gmo premium on my beans.

I'm getting ready to plant another 30 ac of alfalfa this year and I'm not using a RR variety mainly because I want to have some Orchard Grass mixed with it. I think Monsanto has a right to protect their patent, I just don't think they should be able to get money when it is their product that is flying over the fence and is unwanted.


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

In defense of Monsanto according to their versions of the story is that some people have taken the seed and replanted it and claimed it was cross-pollination but were actually proven in multiple court cases to have been stealing and selling the traits. I am just saying that is Monsanto's version and peer jurys. Also cases such as the Canadian canola grower who was sued was found at fault in every level of court that he was tried. I find it hard to believe that a law suit is going to be upheld to claim you cannot sue some one for breaking the law or stealing intellectual property so I don't see this going anywhere. The laws are already in place and the court procedures to handle each situation on a case by case basis. Can you imagine the precident this case would establish if a company pre-emptively(sp) cannot protect copyrights?


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

"Can you imagine the precident this case would establish if a company pre-emptively(sp) cannot protect copyrights? " 
Yeah.........puts me in mind of someone copyrighting herpes and legally pursuing all who contract it.

Regards, Mike


----------



## nanuk (Aug 29, 2011)

the problem with the Monsanto issue is they have literally a $1000 Megabucks in the bank to sue a small farmer who may have Zero in the bank to defend

I remember well the Canola case as I'm from Saskatchewan. MANY agreed something has to be done to protect the farmer, organic or otherwise.

if I grow canola, and it becomes infected with GMO, that is not my fault and if I do not capitalize on it, why should I pay Monsanto?

Monsanto should have to PAY ME to clean up their Noxious weed problems if I don't grow canola, but have an infestation


----------



## greengrow (May 23, 2011)

Why are Monsanto wasting money protecting a patent to an idea that was wrong in the first place, and is now failing?

Better they used their money to come up with GMO plants that were useful

All RR crops have done is reduce a once good useful herbicide to yet another outdated one. Very clever way to make a quick buck


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Oh I don't know, I don't really care for RR corn, but it's pretty damn hard to consistently raise 50-60 bushel beans without roundup.


----------



## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

If you guys don't like the RR alf don't plant it but give the rest of our options. Some claim they don't want the risk of the cross pollination which I can see if I was a seed grower. I don't want someone's organic weed seed blowing onto my place etiher, so they need to respect that in order for me to respect their concerns. 
My father who is in his mid 80's summed it up pretty well the other day in my opinion when he said " why the hell would someone want to farm like we had to 40 years ago".
I am using one of my options tomorrow and planting RR alf. Anyone who thinks we use rup after rup application on the rrhay is misinformed.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

The one thing that concerns me about RR hay, what if certain buyers don't want it? I didn't plant any and certainly I shouldn't get stuck paying for any tests to prove it isn't RR hay.

I know it most likely won't be a problem, but how many country's still won't allow any GMO's to be imported at all. People have some funny ideals about gmo crops.

With all these sopping wet springs we've had lately I'd almost plant some to take care of weed problems from 1st cut being made late, however I have a hard time selling straight alfalfa, most everybody wants a mix anymore even the dairy guys. So RR alfalfa is out of the question until they come up with a RR Orchard grass to go along with it.


----------



## greengrow (May 23, 2011)

How can you guys that want to plant RR alfalfa to control weeds if *all the weeds are RR as well*. This is the majour problem as far as I see.

The number and area of RR weeds is increasing rapidly. It would have been sensiable to have RR corn, then other crops with their own specific herbicide, and allow competotors to use their own chemicals. This is happening but too late and there is already resistance to these herbicides.

Monsanto got it Wrong, now we will have to pay with increased herbicide costs if we have any left that work.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Personally we haven't had to deal with any resistant roundup weeds yet.


----------



## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

We have quite the opposite problem in the hay here. We have used sencor or velpar for years and now are having to tank mix sencor and pursuit to get a clean field in the early spring. The RR alf gives us a much needed chem cycle break. 
As far as other countries not wanting the RR alf it doesn't bother me since all my hay goes to daries and then I have a good reason not to sell to any presses since they are a damn pain.
The RR alf also gives us a huge advantage in the spring since we have to spray in Feb with sencor or velpar and then we have had and will have again years where we have winter kill problem after we have sprayed. Can you say screwed? With the RR alf we spray in May and you spray the hay when the weeds need to be sprayed and not when the hay has to be sprayed so as to not burn or stunt it.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Personally we haven't had to deal with any resistant roundup weeds yet.


Yeah, here in TN we are having some resistance with 2-4-D variants on Pig Weed, but glyphosate still kills em dead.

Regards, Mike


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We don't give em a chance to build resistance. When spraying burndown in the spring, we use a combination of glyphosate and 2-4d on the bean stubble going to corn, on the corn stalks going to beans we use canopy and 2-4d. Any odd ones that don't appear to be dying gets a second shot from the spot sprayer on our 4 wheeler. We don't strictly rely on contact sprays for weed control. Using canopy with the soybeans now while we used to use a premix of glyphosate and a residual. On corn still use atrazine and surestart applied while planting.


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Thing is my here is really that some place else in the world of alfalfa. 
I will assume the mid west is THE Here simply because it appears a higher percentage of alfalfa growers on these pages are Eastern and corn belt growers. 
In this never - never land of some place else we are right on the theoretical divide between the Humid East & the Arid West.

What is accepted as dairy quality is different Here & There 
The number of individual fields devoted hay are higher There than Here. 
Field size and shape are also different. 
*Alfalfa growers There have more ground in pivot tracks than I have in alfalfa. 
*Needless to say the approach to weed control will be different There than it is Here.

In this little odd corner in some place else I like to rotate winter herbicides, seldom using the same product two years in a row. I also have used Sinbar with good results, a product that may not fit other soil types.

Personally I would like to use a RR alfalfa in a 15 foot strip next to three property lines. Then my neighbor would not feel constrained about using roundup on his corn right next to the property line.

I probably will not use RR alfalfa. 
I do not want to have to comply with the Monsanto Big Brother monitoring.

Different from the usual Truth, we have alfalfa going to seed during our annual summer drought. 
This seed is a source of Volunteer Stand Thickening. With this soil, this climate, & my sloppy management style does not prevent alfalfa seedlings from prospering in an established stand. 
I do not doubt that Auto toxicity exists, but I do know it is not a factor at 31°N 97°20'W.

Consider this. 
How many loads of alfalfa, fescue, or timothy are shipped from Kentucky to Idaho? If any were would they meet quality expectations of the Idaho buyers?

*Everyone is ships hay to this some place else. *


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Disregard a duplication some place else.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

There was an article in yesterday's St. Louis Post Dispatch, as well as a number of other places, that Monsanto's BT corn, as well as a number of other places, that the root worms are showing resistance to the BT strain.

Darwin's survival of the fittest may be Monsanto's downfall! Personally, I believe that having too much of one thing in nature is a sure-fire way to cause a catastrophe, whether it's BT corn, RR crops, or people! If all crops where converted to a few genetically engineered types, e.g., RR corn, it is my opinion that it would be a simple invitation to a natural disaster. With wider varieties, some will survive better than others.

A good example of what I am talking about would be the great potato famine in Ireland when potato blight ran rampart and destroyed a basic crop. It is thought that the blight fungus originated in South America and was introduced around 1843. In 2-3 years, it reduced the yield from 14,000 tons to 2,000 tons.

The question is: could this happen to RR ready crops where a disease break infests only that crop?

I'm betting probably sooner than we think!

Ralph


----------



## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

Crop rotation is the key. We grow no corn here so the corn after corn after corn after corn which could be a mess won't happen here. The alf is in a 5 to 6 year rotation then 2 to 3 years of grain to kill all the gophers and ground squirrels, then back into alf. Every area is completely different in its rotations or lack of and also humidities, rain fall, snow, ect, ect which wil all affect the RR scenerio you depict in my opinion.


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

It is so tempting to look out our kitchen door and draw conclusions about how the nation as a whole should operate. I am no exception, though I should know better!
Our Central Texas Frost Free days are the same as at UC Davis, but no one in their right mind would say our weed pressures and varieties are more than a superficial resemblance. 
At an AFGC Conference I was severely reprimanded by a County Agent on our weed pressures. Naturally he was from a state with a 6 month weed growing season, while we have a 12 month weed growing season. Our ground never has any frost depth while they have several feet of frost under several feed of snow.

Ralph has a good point with his disease and pest pressures. We will have a Black Death sweep through alfalfa again , and the response will be much the same. The breeders will find a few plants that are not effected by the new Black Death and include that resistance into the alfalfa varieties. Here in the 1960's it was the pea aphid became a major pest that almost eliminated alfalfa in the area. New Mexico had a variety that was resistant to the pea aphid and we were back in business. Now there is a virtual alphabet soup of pest resistance traits.

I understand that Southern California now has a problem with leaf hopper burn. California and probably Arizona are looking at the potato leaf hopper resistant varieties to see if that will be their hopper burn treatment.

For 30 years I planned on 5 years in alfalfa, one year fallow, and back to alfalfa. All the P, K, Mg, S, B, Cu, Zn & Mo were applied prior to planting. 
My present thinking is 5 years in alfalfa, one year wheat, one year fallow, with half the essential elements, prior to planting. Each June top dressing 100 units of K2O for better moisture use efficiency during our summer drought. 
As pest resistance improved in the Nondormant varieties, I moved to FD 8 expecting improved yield. Now I am moving back to FD 4 or 5 for the better pest resistance and expecting improved variety trait yields.

What I have determined is any well documented and reviewed Universal Truths eventually will be found to be a Regional Truth.

I know that hay making truths for Michigan, are not necessarily true in Artesia New Mexico. What works in Madison WI, may not work well at all in Tifton GA.

It is like the Truths for baling hay. In West Virginia they need to lay their hay out flat for good curing, 
In the Nevada and Arizona Deserts they do not NEED a wide swath for hay during.


----------

