# Self propelled swather



## Hayking

John Deere is comnig out with a new swather this year a R450 i was curious to hear your opionion on it. we bought a new H8080 New holland in november and almost traded for a green one but didnt really know that much about them. just let me know what your opionin is on them and if you like another brand let me know what you like about it.


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## cfarms2

Traded this spring for a Hesston 9635 at Livingstons Chickasha, what a machine. We ran New Hollands before, and I believe it will out cut two New Hollands. Before trading we look at the new MacDons and New Hollands. Didn't like the MacDons steel rollers on the head, thought they would pack up in wet ground, and New Holland air bag system needed to be capable of regulating air without the need of a compressor on your pickup. We do no custom work and have put 400 hrs on our 9635 this year, wonder why we didn't go to Hesston earlier. Only complaint is the 9635 needs more lights shining on the cutter head.


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## Hayking

You really think the Hesston will out cut the New Holland? Do you have problems with your machine getting hot during hot days when you had your new holland or on your new hesston? I know with us we carry portable gas air compressors so the air bag sitiuation isnt that big of a deal for us. i would hate to have a machine without them or the cab suspension. we looked at the hesston and didnt believe the rotary head was near the head New hollands was. IS YOUR MACHINE A DISC OR SICKLE? iv never ran a hesston so im just going buy litature and just an eye appearance. Our john deere Dealer is going to bring a new Deere for us to demo this summer and see how it compares to our new holland.


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## cfarms2

The Hesston will definitely out cut others. We were worried about all the disc pods being in one oil, unlike the New Holland which each pod uses its own oil. But after many long talks with Earl Livingston the owner of Livingston Machinery (the largest sales of Hesston in the US over 1,000 big square balers sold) we were sold. Before buying I rode in a 9635 cutting irrigated alfalfa at 14 mph, and never had any problems. We cut hundreds acres of wheat hay this year that made 2 plus bales (5x6) /acre at 10-12 mph. On the heating up issue, we carry gas compressors also, but with Hesstons pulling their air in from behind the cab up high we very seldom had to blow out the radiator. The New Holland may ride better with the air bag system, but what a poor engineering design without a compressor built into the air system. When we went to the NH dealer the first thing they had to do was air up the bags because the machine was setting all the way down. Not impressive. Don't get me wrong when NH designed the 1431 cutter they left all the other brands behind. Our problem is we have to have a dealer with great service and a great product, because we are 2 1/2 hrs from a NH dealer (vernon tx) and the same to chickasha. We have a JD dealer 40 minutes away, but no one in our area uses them because all the stunts they have pulled over the years. Hope this helps.


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## efarm

I have no experience with hay headers on any model, we just run draper heads, so I can just tell you about tractor units themselves. Although I don't think that Deere made any changes to the hay headers from the previous series. The new Deere's are a greatly improved version of the 4895/4995's. They addressed many of the previous models shortfalls. The biggest improvement is the maintenance free suspension. They have also increased road speeds, and increased ground clearance. They finally put a muffler on so it should be quieter outside and inside the cab as well. Also inside the cab, the hydro handle matches the ones on the combines and choppers now. So, all header controls are at fingertips. They also have climate control, maybe not a big deal, but before it was always to hot or too cold. I believe that this series of tractor unit will bring Deere near the top of swather units.
It would be nice if New Holland had a compressor on board for the air bags if they started to leak. At least you'd have suspension til you could fix them. But at least you don't have to stop swathing if they do leak down. Our neighbor fills them in the spring before first cut hay, and maybe tops them up once or twice through the year til harvest is complete in fall. The thing I don't like about them is the bounce after you hit a bump. It takes awhile for it to settle back down, I think they need shock absorbers to settle down quicker. I don't like the way it makes the stubble look wavy when you hit a bump and it keeps bouncing. 
The M-series macdons are another good tractor unit. Nice control layout, dual doors are nice, and the fast road speed is nice too. Lots of ground clearance. Lots of producers in our area are moving from JD to Macdon, because of the draper heads. The Macdon header seems to work better here than the HoneyBee head that the Deeres are using. 
These are top three makes in our area, we also have a number of Massey, and CaseIH. There are hay heads around here both rotary and sickle but we don't use them. I can't comment on Hesston because there are none here.


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## Hayking

We had a Hw 365 before and i would have to air them up maybe once a month. Thats not a concearn for us. I just would like for them to figure something out differant for the cooling system. in prarie hay i have to blow my radiater out at least twice a day, it just gets covered in fuzz. I believe that New holland has the best header on the market, with running in individual pods and the shear hubs are a big help and alot cheaper and less time consuming instead of putting in both the top and bottom gear just take a couple bolts out and replace it. 
If we could have seen a deere in person we might have bought one, but there were none around at the tme to look at. We have a new hollad dealer 60 miles from us but we cant do business with them we have to go 200 miles to trade and they take real good care of us. we have 3 deere dealers within 60 miles and can do business with one of them we bought two new 568 balers off of one this year, and almost bought a swather but we wanted to see it befor we bought it.


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## MikeRF

Does anyone use autosteer on their self propelled swathers? We have run a 9365 Hesston for the last 2 seasons and feel it could be a great benefit. 
Some sales guys seem to think that the system would not react quick enough to be accurate with this type of hydraulic drive wheel steering.
Any thoughts?
Mike


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## Rodney R

As I recall from another BB, there was a guy in Washinton state that has auto steer on his haybine... an HW365...... I think the issue that he had was that the bubble needed to be mounted well in front of the cab roof - near the cneter of the actual cutter - He had some sort of bracket that did just that.

Rodney


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## Hayking

does anyone use windrow mergers on there machines?


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## efarm

We run JD universal autotrac in our swather. We put it in our HW320 in 2004 then moved it too a JD4895 in 2008, and last year we moved it into a M-150. There hasn't been any trouble in any of these with steering. We just use the sf1 signal, so we usually make the tracking width 6inches narrower than the header width. As far as mounting the bubble, it shouldn't matter where it is mounted. You have to tell the processor where the bubble is in relation to the drive wheels, meaning how far ahead or behind it is. You also have to tell it how high off the ground, and you also tell it that it is on a windrower so it knows that it is steering with the rear wheels. All the bubble needs is a clear view of the sky. Autosteer in the swather is one of those things that once you have it you will not want to run without it.


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## MikeRF

Thanks Efarm. What do you figure is the payback on the system in your swather? Do you switch it into other vehicles on your farm?


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## JoshA

I run an AGCO 9365 with DWA (windrow merger). Steer it with EZ-Steer 500 on WAAS at speeds up to 14mph with a 3" overlap. Would not want to be without it. Driving a swather is not the easiest. By easiest I mean, it's not easy to keep a 100% full header without skipping now and again when driving at 14mph for 15 hours straight. This is especially important when using the merger. Skipping in places puts standing crow in the middle of a windrow, which the baler then pulls out by its roots. Overlapping can mean re-eating the last windrow and when you're really pushing it, it's possible to plug something.

By cutting on GPS I can then turn around and rake on GPS too. Can't bale on GPS, but the perfect straight rows sure makes baling nice!!

Besides. The neighbor's make fun of crooked windrows.

Anyway, here's a video of the swather cutting silage at 11mph:
YouTube - 2009 Barley Silage Harvest
First part of the video is inside, then outside, then pictures of it, and the whole operation/process (baler, loaders, trucks, bagger, etc).


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## RFHay

wow!! Thats a very impresive set up Josh! Nice


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## JoshA

Thanks RFHay! Going full bore (14mph) the swather "can" cut 25 acres/hour. 20acres/hour is more realistic though (often too rough to cut at 14mph, factor in turns etc).

To comment on the original topic question....

I think the New Holland (ie H8080) had (has?) the nicest swather tractor out there currently. By that I'm talking cab, lighting, suspension (both cab and axle).

The idea of turning the seat around in the MacDon does not appeal to me in the least(other than the cool factor).

However, these new Deere swather's really have my attention. The cab still lacks (ie, operator not in center of cab; then again, who cares if GPS is driving?), but the suspension, the bigger tires, and the rear axle steer is really what shines for me.

But ultimately, the tractor means very little. It's the cutterbed, and the conditioner that count.

I know very little about the Deere headers. I like the module design, and I like the bigger oil capacity (more oil = better cooling, less need for exact precise amount of oil) and the sight-glass on the outside of the cutterbed. I like the fact that all the turtles turn toward the center of the header. I do NOT like the fact that it is all driven off one orbital motor from one side of the header. Not sure what it is exactly that I don't like about it, I just question this design?

Lastly, conditioning. Has to be steel on steel rollers for me, I will not so much as consider anything else.

I have been in contact with my Deere dealers about the new swathers since last fall, and I'm expecting to demo one this summer, if not already purchased. I'm just not sure I can go away from the Hesston Advanced Conditioner (Double conditioner) after having it in the current swather? Hopefully a side-by-side in-field demo will prove the new JD swather's can dry hay down just as fast if not faster than what we currently run.


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## MikeRF

I agree. Nice set up and great video!
Personally I don't think there is a better conditioner out there than the Hesston Advanced. That is the one and only reason we bought our 9365 and have completely changed our other operations (tedder & rake) to work around the 8'6",very even windrows it leaves behind.
We have just two issues. Underpowered! Heavy first cut we are down to around 5mph and really drinking the juice. Admittedly this is around 7000lb/acre of July 1st cut which is often half flat on the ground. Not ideal cutting conditions! 
Secondly in lighter 2nd and 3rd cuttings the air movement created by the rollers tends to blow the crop away from the knives leaving an untidy cut. I have since been told slowing down the speed of the cutterhead will improve this.
Josh how many litres per acre of fuel do you figure to use? 
Mike


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## ohcanada

i just bought a 9635 and put a raven auto steer in it an wouldn't run without it


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## deerezilla

I have a 4995 and a r450. Both are good swathers. The heads have been working good . I just put a little oil in the head every day and what it don't want it pukes it out. I been running jd 18% blades that has made a big diference in clean cut. I'm running the v10 crimper and I have the same dry time as my nabor with the double crimper.


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## Hayking

deerezilla said:


> I have a 4995 and a r450. Both are good swathers. The heads have been working good . I just put a little oil in the head every day and what it don't want it pukes it out. I been running jd 18% blades that has made a big diference in clean cut. I'm running the v10 crimper and I have the same dry time as my nabor with the double crimper.


How do the two compare?


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## bullet81

Ok everbody,

Pretty much sounds like ford, chvey to me. I think if we all ran 1 new holland, 1 hesston, and 1 john deere we would find pros and cons with all of them. There is not one perfect machine. Myself, I run 2 new holland 8080's. My first macine that i bought has 1200 hours and the number 2 machine is around 500. I will be the first one to say that new holland water pumps suck!!! I am not real sure what the deal is but between the two I have probably changed 7 water pumps (gonna get costly once they get off of warranty). Other than that they are great machines not mention they promise that the water pumps have been updated. I think that nh suspinsion is far superior to jd and hesston does'nt even have anything yet. I think the double crimper on the hesston is the fastest drying factory system out there. I have heard more than once a new holland tractor with a hesston header would be the ultimate self propelled swather. I don't know a whole lot about jd but i am suprised that with the new R450 they didn't match the horsepower of nh???? I did demo a new jd r450 in the wheat season and they lacked hp in heavy crop, I sure in alfalfa of other light crops they would be great. Not sure about jd crimpers???

P.S. New Holland 8080 with circle c conditioner rolls would give hesston

double crimper a run for it's money!!!!!!!


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## STRAWBOSS

I run a krone 4013cv pull behind mower and I would like to know how many acres you fellas go over to be able to pay for these swathers? I would like to find a good used one but they are so darn expensive!


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## bullet81

I have 2 new holland 8080's and cut 15 to 16 thousands acers a year, makes the payments and still room for a profit.


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## Cannon

deerezilla said:


> I have a 4995 and a r450. Both are good swathers. The heads have been working good . I just put a little oil in the head every day and what it don't want it pukes it out. I been running jd 18% blades that has made a big diference in clean cut. I'm running the v10 crimper and I have the same dry time as my nabor with the double crimper.


Deerzilla do you cut any tall sorghum feed ( tall 8-12 feet tall, thick feed bothe dry land and irrigated) with your V-10 crimpers? One guy around here said that the V-10 will push all the feed to the center and then plug. Deere says ita a all crop crimper. And can you tell me about the 18% blades, what are they doing for you? Some of the guys around here like krone blades.

Bullet81: where on the country are you and what do you charge? I get $14.00 per acre.


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## bullet81

Cannon,
I am in the San Jouquin valley in Califorinia.

Alfalfa----

Cut= $13 per acre
Rake=$6 per acre
Bale=$10 Per Bale (3 by 4)


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## Hayking

We do 5000 acres a year the majority of that is alfafa we do some prarie hay and bermuda grass. the water pump on our 8080 just wet out with 200 hours on the machine i hope that we dont have the same bad luck as you and they have this problem straightened out. we had hw 365 before this one and the only trouble we had with it is the gears that are in the front of the motor sheard on us and a week after that the shaft that runs through the main hydrauic pump twisted into both were covered under warranty thankfully that ws the second season on it.


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## deerezilla

Cannon said:


> Deerzilla do you cut any tall sorghum feed ( tall 8-12 feet tall, thick feed bothe dry land and irrigated) with your V-10 crimpers? One guy around here said that the V-10 will push all the feed to the center and then plug. Deere says ita a all crop crimper. And can you tell me about the 18% blades, what are they doing for you? Some of the guys around here like krone blades.
> 
> Bullet81: where on the country are you and what do you charge? I get $14.00 per acre.


I do some triticale that was about 10 ft tall this year I have never have the v10 cripmer plug it does put it to the center but that a easey fix I just push down the wing in the front all the way down and the back one 3 hold from all the way.

The JD 18% knives work good in grass and alfalfa just a cleaner cut. My 4995 and the r450 cut as good as as sickle machine with the 18% even in thin short hay. As we I type I ran out of jd knives since it"s sunday I'm running hesston 18% right now work the same as the jd just don't last as long.


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## Cannon

What wing are you talking about? And Back one one 3 hold? sorry but I lost your answer. Soon we will be cutting dryland feed that will be 10 feet tall or more. I want to try the V-10 as It seems to be working well in alfalfa. Thanks again Cannon.

(I do some triticale that was about 10 ft tall this year I have never have the v10 cripmer plug it does put it to the center but that a easey fix I just push down the wing in the front all the way down and the back one 3 hold from all the way.)


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## nwks baler

Cane in 2009 with V10 conditioner


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## Cannon

nwks baler, now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks guys so far I only got 700-8-- acres to cut but the phone has not started ringing yet.


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## cdhayman

we run all mf 9635's and for the most part they do pretty good. the thing that makes them stand out is the conditioner. we have the double conditioners and makes the hay dry faster than anything else we have ever run. as far as durability of the unit, they are not up there. i think that macdon is really good, and we may think about them when we update. we demoed one 2 summers ago with auto steer, and it was perfect. they had the machine running at about 14 mph and it was more perfectly straight than i could have ever possibly imagined.


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## JoshA

The auto-steer has very little if anything to do with the swather itself. I run EZ-Steer on WAAS on my 9365 AGCO (same as yours), 14mph it'll keep it within 2 inches, I imagine a higher level of accuracy (paid service like RTK) would make it even better, as would having a GPS guy calibrate it.
YouTube - 2009 Barley Silage Harvest

Regardless, as for your Hesstons, what don't you like about them? You mentioned not up their in durability? Could you explain? Things to look for on mine before they break? I had the engine replaced in mine this summer with only 126 hours on it. AGCO was great about it, replaced the whole engine instead of just repairing it, and the dealer loaned us a brand new swather identical to ours.

The MacDon appear to be VERY nice tractor units, but I'd like to stay with the Hesston's double conditioner.... because of that, I think I'll be sticking with Hesston when its time to trade as well.

-Josh


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## cdhayman

I understand that it doesnt matter what machine the gps is on, i was just stating that it was pretty unreal to see it. anyhow, on one of the machines, we had the header go out after using it for a few hours, i agree, they were good about it and got us a brand new header. but hesston had quality control problems a few years ago. we had new balers that bolts were just falling out of them. for the most part they have been pretty good. i personally enjoy running them. but we have had some bearing go out and different little things, nothing major. i guess my frustration stems from this last summer. we had a lot of rain about the time of second cutting and so some of the grass was pretty rank by the time we were able to cut. now, i have cut alot of hay, and i had never plugged a disc mower until last year. the grass would start wrapping around drums on either side and it would burn the belts up. i mean obviously the conditioner wouldnt get plugged. but it was a real problem. we put the slingers on, and it helped a little bit but it didnt fix it. i dont know what i couldve done different. i suppose i could have tried replacing all the turtles, they were starting to get some wear, and who knows maybe couldve made a difference. i think i replaced 5 or six sets of belts. normally we wouldnt have had this problem, it was just the freak year, we normally dont get much rain during the summer.


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## juceguys

How does the new Massey Ferguson WR 9770 compare to the John Deere R450 in performance and durability?


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## LeadFarmer

This is definitely NOT like a Ford/Chevy type of situation. In my experience, there are pretty big differences between the quality of cut behind the machine, which is what makes the difference for me. As things are now, there is nothing else out there that will even get close to the NH 8080 or Case 2303. The new header is simply amazing. I have personally tested out all machines being discussed here, and there is NO comparison, NONE whatsoever. It's not even close. The NH/Case is by far the cleanest cutting, most user friendly unit currently available. Seriously, if having to air up the rear suspension from 1-3 times a year is your biggest compaint, I'd go ahead and write the check. The John Deere is, BY FAR, the most inferior of these machines. The header is awful, prepare for "turtle streaks" everywhere, very poor cutting job.

Someone mentioned the bouncy ride after hitting a bump in a suspended NH/Case. The new model years, 2012 and up, DO have a shock absorber on the back suspension as well. Nice addition, but one that I never felt was necessary. Unless your fields were brutally,insanely bumpy, I have never hit a big enough bump to produce the sort of cutting problems that you are talking about. Regardless, they have fixed the issue that you are talking about.

I use a John Deere RTK GPS system on my swather. We have the RTK signal for lettuce beds, cotton beds, etc, and it works out really nice having the JD brackets and steering wheels in other equipment. When I'm done cutting a field, it looks like something out of a magazine, something that a robot did, which I guess it kind of is. I like having the GPS because I can focus on things like the quality of my cutting job, and am able to make adjustments and turn around and actually look behind me without cutting all wacko.


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## Colby

Massey's new WR 9770 is top notch too.


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