# Bottle Feeding



## Nitram

Cow died after calf born so fed colostrum three feedings 2 qts each. Birth weight 90 lbs +- this morning gave 2 qts milk replacer was still Hungary so gave another qt. Still hungry ! Question : at two feedings per day should i stick at two or three qts? This is day 2 and don't want to deal with scours. TIA. Martin


----------



## Blue Duck

If you are using high quaility milk replacer you are giving the little guy way to much. When I start calves I only feed a quart twice a day for a week and then start increasing the amount. They still act hungry but they don't know whats best for them. I was starting 25 angus/holstien cross calves at a time and had good luck up until I got a load with crypto-sporidium. Its hard to make money with a 32% survival rate.


----------



## kyfred

That's a big calf. I would have started after the colostrum with 3/4 quart twice a day for a few days. Not full strength to avoid the scours and if no scours then move up to a quart twice a day. Not to advertise for Carnation but the feed store here carried Carnation which was made from real milk and the stores cheaper brand made from soy. They told me the milk replacer made from soy instead of milk would be more likely to give the calf scours . I couldn't say for sure, dad always said to feed what was closer to cows milk and the calves would do better.
I would try to follow pretty close to what the instructions that is on the bag of milk replacer once the calf is started. Also If you feed to much milk they will develop a pot belly.
Ask your vet or feed store they might recommend a feed starter after a few weeks .
Good Luck


----------



## Nitram

Amplifier Max the bestest they had. Made from whey and dried milk etc. Backed down to 1 qrt tonight. Instructions say 2 qrts twice a day? Also have free choice water. Was told after day 4 to give calf starter very little at first replace every day. Martin. Ps also used my unaltered bottle nipple the one I use to start em with expanded x cut to allow faster. By the time he was done tonight he was less aggressive.


----------



## haybaler101

Its not so much the volume of milk replacer fed as it is the amount of powder used to make it. Cold weather and a 90 lb calf needs at least 1 lb. of high quality milk replacer per day. I use a Merrick's 20-20 all milk with egg protein in it as well. On holstein calves I like to start at 2.5 qts. with 8 oz. of replacer 2x day. If you have water available, no need to go higher, I usually go to 3-4 qts. 2x in cold weather so I don't have to worry about water freezing. Yes, soy milk replacer will give them scours.


----------



## Nitram

I seem to remember dad using eggs to combat scours at the outbreak of it.


----------



## Nitram

Per the instructions 12 oz to 2 quarts of water 2X daily. Sounds like quite a lot to me


----------



## kyfred

If nothing else at least you will have one animal on the farm that will be glad to see you when you go to the barn. We have one that our son raised on a bottle and we kept her for a cow. She is about 1200 lbs now has had 2 calves so far. She is still a big pet.


----------



## mlappin

Just follow the directions on the bag. We used to milk 225 cows, so had a lot of calves to raise. Even the bull calves were kept till they were hauled to the sale barn. Always fed 2 quarts 2x day. All depends on the concentration of the powder. Seen anywhere from 8 to 16 oz per 2 quarts water.

If he's that hungry get some calf starter in there with em and the softest grass hay you have.


----------



## Nitram

Two more questions 1) have bucket of clean water not drinking from it so... I have hung extra bottle with water and is drinking, is this considered free choice? 2) have another cow that calf was pulled off 1+ months ago big oops will that be enough time to cycle back to colostrum ( doesn't have much of a bag (born last eve)

Edit. Had my numbers wrong different cow had calf it had nursed today so all is well. But would still like to know what turn around time is. Suppose that health and condition is biggest factor


----------



## mlappin

Not sure on the last part of your question, but we used to do the same, big calf, still hungry, but already had recommended amount of milk replacer, give a bottle of water then. Half of it is I think the act of nursing whether it be on mama or a bottle calms them, is also a born with habit.

To make it easier to get your calves eating grain mix up your milk replacer then dump it in a shallow bucket, once they are drinking milk out of the bucket seems a lot easier to get em started on grain.


----------



## Nitram

Update Lucky Tucker is doing well ! Thank you everyone for the input. The extra bottle filled with water is working well. and have introduced calf starter mixed with my grain which is milo corn and beans rolled with a touch of molasis for smell and taste. I have let the steer I'm weening in with him at night this seems to have had a good influence and hoping he learns to eat hay by inmitation. Martin


----------



## mlappin

All this talk of raising calves jinxed me. Had one late Sunday in the woods, first time mama. She cleaned her right up and all seemed well. Checked on the calf Monday morning and she seemed mighty hungry so went and rounded mama up and got her back to her calf. Gets all kinds of nervous if you get any where near the calf, licks the calf while it's lying down but soon as the calf got up and tried to nurse she'd kick it then turn around and flip it right off it's legs with her head. Calf got up and tried again, same result.

Got em separated and the calf in the barn. The wife is tickled pink as she's going to raise another "pet" cow as she lost her old pet cow last summer. I dealt with something like this once before with the beef cows, the last one maybe raised half or less of her calves and we did the rest. Not dealing with it again, I don't have a shortage of cows so I figured this one will settle right down once she's hanged in a cooler for 10-14 days.


----------



## Tim/South

I was also thinking about this thread when I fed a bottle night before last. I have a new cow that is thin. She calved and is not making much milk. Calf was puny, gave it a shot and unthawed some colostrum.
I know you are not supposed to mix milks but I have been giving the calf pet milk, mixed 50/50 with water. Between me and momma the calf has perked up.

Then I discovered twins today. Momma took them both but one is puny. Wondering if I should just go ahead and pull the small one off and bottle feed it.


----------



## Nitram

Mommy got a big bag? and in good shape? If in the barn or easy to get I'd supplement the lil one until its got good power. If it's easier to pull it off and bottle feed you could save yourself from coming home to a dead one. Martin. PS get a whisk attachment for your blender it makes it so quick to mix replacer! Good luck and congrad on the twins Martin


----------



## Nitram

Marty sorry bout the jinx but I really appreciate your info and help! Other Martin


----------



## Tim/South

Nitram said:


> Mommy got a big bag? and in good shape? If in the barn or easy to get I'd supplement the lil one until its got good power. If it's easier to pull it off and bottle feed you could save yourself from coming home to a dead one. Martin. PS get a whisk attachment for your blender it makes it so quick to mix replacer! Good luck and congrad on the twins Martin


Momma has a good bag and is in good flesh. She is also a good momma. She knows where her babies are. The twins are here on the pasture where I live. I could pull the smaller one off with no problem.
I just discovered the twins today but I believe they are about a week old. They are part of the 47 momma cows delivered Saturday. It took until late Saturday for all the pairs to sort who belonged to whom. There are 14, 1 -3 week old babies. I can tell a difference in the condition of the twins. One is plump, the other sunk in. She lets them both nurse.


----------



## Nitram

Tough call... hate to interfere with nature but if calf shows less lively than other one it's harder to get them to start taking bottle after they had the real thing. This year was my first dead cow at birth that was easy to get it to take bottle. When supplementing they get finicky and end up dumping alot to the farm cats. I try to avoid "I should have " you wouldn't kill it bottle feeding but it could starve the other way. If you have the time and place to have it dry/ wind break...


----------



## mlappin

Oh lord, now the wife has jinxed the calf....she named it.


----------



## Nitram

Quick hang a mini cow bell on it to ward off the jinx and to remind her it's a bovine.... won't help but you get to say you tryed!


----------



## Tim/South

mlappin said:


> Oh lord, now the wife has jinxed the calf....she named it.


Congratulations!
You now have another bovine with a forever home.









We have named them then ate them. My wife got use to it and my children thought that is what you did.
We bought a Jersey cross to put on a momma who's calf was still born. Named it Valentine.
The in laws were over for dinner and commented on the meat. My daughter innocently asked if this one was Valentine or Rufus?
The looks were priceless.


----------



## mlappin

I name the males and stick with more fitting names, like t-bone, sirloin, ribeye. The wife names some of the females, then I get to feel like an ass calling them Lilly, Ashes, Dotty, etc. When we first started dating the wife wouldn't eat if I told her who it was on her plate, she's gotten over that.

Ashes was her pet, she named this one Ashley.


----------



## Nitram

Tim/South said:


> Momma has a good bag and is in good flesh. She is also a good momma. She knows where her babies are. The twins are here on the pasture where I live. I could pull the smaller one off with no problem.
> I just discovered the twins today but I believe they are about a week old. They are part of the 47 momma cows delivered Saturday. It took until late Saturday for all the pairs to sort who belonged to whom. There are 14, 1 -3 week old babies. I can tell a difference in the condition of the twins. One is plump, the other sunk in. She lets them both nurse.


Tim, Hows the little one doing? I'll Find out today if the momma cow at the farm found her calf, if not going to try and put Lucky Tucker on her quess its good to have an extra one around.... Hope your little tyke is doing good!


----------



## Tim/South

I hope your's works out and she takes Lucky Tucker.

The calf who's momma has little milk is getting supplemented twice a day. She now comes to the tractor when I drive up to that end of the pasture.
The little twin is up and alive but not much more. My son is going to help me see if I can get it to take a bottle in a few minutes. I hope I can supplement it like I am doing the other calf. Son says I should just go ahead and pull it off the momma. We are at the point where a decision has to be made.
I needed his help because the momma got serious when I tried to feed it by myself. Got to have someone watching my back.

I have a Brown Swiss that looks like Dolly Pardon on steroids. She is one of the new cows. I do not believe she has ever been milked. If I bottle feed these babies, she will learn.
I am trying to find a good used squeeze chute. We have three head catches and with the growing number of hides around here it may be time to move up in our handling abilities.

Thanks for asking. I hope you get things sorted with Lucky.


----------



## aawhite

*A little late to this thread, but we always had 40 -50 calves on bottle at any time at our dairy. We fed 2 quarts 2x a day. Calves got straight colostrum, warmed, first 3 days. Our mix for milk replacer: 2 inches of colostrum in the bottom (dipped with an old sauce pan) , about 3/4 of the included measuring cup of replacer, then hot water. Mixed with an old cooking wisk. Very few scour issues.*

*We lost maybe 1 calf every 4-5 years, if it was born live. *


----------



## Nitram

She hasn't accepted lucky yet trying baby powder on calf and above cows nose this afternoon... hate too but may have to put her in the chute! Any other suggestions?


----------



## Tim/South

The chute may be the quickest route to go. Some cows just will not take a calf no matter what. My experience is once the calf passes the mothers milk and she sniffs her stuff coming out the calf poo then she will usually take it. of course that means the head catch and maybe hobbles.

One year my son brought some beef bred calves home from the sale. I bought 2 Jersey cows from a dairy guy I know.
Those pampered milk cows did not like the new milking machines. I built a set of stocks and fed the cows in the stocks until they took the calves. None had ever mothered a calf before. I did have to watch their faucets as the calves have tongues like sandpaper.
Once the cows accepted the calves I turned them out to raise and fed the mommas twice a day. Those were very tame cows use to being handled.

Good luck on this. Some times there is no perfect solution so we just pick the best one that comes to mind.


----------



## mlappin

Nitram said:


> She hasn't accepted lucky yet trying baby powder on calf and above cows nose this afternoon... hate too but may have to put her in the chute! Any other suggestions?


We used to use molasses. Or even jelly or jam.


----------



## Tim/South

mlappin said:


> We used to use molasses. Or even jelly or jam.


That makes sense and I have never heard of trying it before.
Common sense says it will make the cow lick the calf and associate it with a good sensation. How long did it take, did you have to apply the molasses, before the cow took the calf?


----------



## Nitram

mlappin said:


> We used to use molasses. Or even jelly or jam.


Sweet ideal! Tried pouring grain on him but will try the molasses tomorrow morning if she hasn't been sucked thanks I will try everything hate to sale barn this cow


----------



## mlappin

Tim/South said:


> That makes sense and I have never heard of trying it before.
> Common sense says it will make the cow lick the calf and associate it with a good sensation. How long did it take, did you have to apply the molasses, before the cow took the calf?


Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I've also heard of using vanilla, some on the calf some around mama's nose then both smell the same.

Some cows though nothing works and others don't care as long as _a_ calf is nursing.


----------



## Vol

Nitram said:


> She hasn't accepted lucky yet trying baby powder on calf and above cows nose this afternoon... hate too but may have to put her in the chute! Any other suggestions?


I always used the mother(nurse) cows feces....sounds ridiculous but it works. Just rub along the calfs back and sides and a small amount on the calfs forehead. Doesn't take much just enough to put her smell on the calf.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Nitram

Vol said:


> I always used the mother(nurse) cows feces....sounds ridiculous but it works. Just rub along the calfs back and sides and a small amount on the calfs forehead. Doesn't take much just enough to put her smell on the calf.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Hope it was a sign went to feed lucky and "momma" pooped! So...while she had her grain lather him up. Fingers crossed thanks guys molasses is next if...


----------



## Tim/South

Between molasses and poop something has to work.


----------



## enos

Tim/South said:


> Between molasses and poop something has to work.


That'll be some sticky $hit


----------



## Nitram

It would be great if she would stick to him. Lol


----------



## Nitram

SUCK SESS!!! BIG OL THANKS TO ALL MY FREINDS HERE AT HAY TALK!
The secret is as follows
1.save calf from dying and start bottle feeding 2. have a cow lose her calf in creek 3. bring cow home to calf (before letting her out of trailer grab some new momma poop and smear it on calf (lucky that trailers are natural laxative) if you skip this part you have to put baby powder on calf and on new mommas nose area 3.then pour grain on calf 4. put more new momma poop on calf 5.pour molasses on calf and keep bottle feeding 6 run out of milk re-placer and purchase some more on the way home from work. 7. And this is very important Open new bag of re-placer before checking cow/calf and take bottle to calf and don't pay attention to cows bag/teats hang bottle and go grain cows come back and bottle will be 1/4 gone now look at the teats All praise to Lord and God. And a big thank you to Hay Talk! Martin

Mike Opps Tim hows you getting along with the 2nd of twins? Hope your having my kinda day!


----------



## mlappin

Vol said:


> I always used the mother(nurse) cows feces....sounds ridiculous but it works. Just rub along the calfs back and sides and a small amount on the calfs forehead. Doesn't take much just enough to put her smell on the calf.
> 
> Regards, Mike


This actually makes the most sense out of all.

One other one I know works and it's a bit tricky and only works under certain circumstances.

If you have a still born calf have one person distract momma while a second guy gets the calf out of sight, take the after birth and rub another calf down with it. Have only done it twice but worked like a charm both times. The calf that got the rubdown will definitely smell like momma.


----------



## Nitram

I remember dad using the skin off one that had died and we found a day or so latter. placenta was already eat up. It work but took alot of work tied up momma and milked her. feed it to calf and smeared on calf. Alot harder to do by your self and as muddy as the squeze chute area is was not looking forward to doing it that way.


----------



## Tim/South

Congratulations Martin. Good to hear things worked out. Of course you covered every base possible so the outcome left little other outcome.

I had 2 born today.
Also have my first prolapse to deal with in years. It is vaginal, so it could be worse.
Guess I will be hauling to the Vet in the morning.


----------



## Nitram

Only had that one time with dad. I was young and still got that one stuck in my brain! Is the lil twin getting stronger?


----------



## Tim/South

Nitram said:


> Only had that one time with dad. I was young and still got that one stuck in my brain! Is the lil twin getting stronger?


The twin is fair, not good, not bad. The larger twin is gaining well. They were about the same size at birth. Small twin did not look as sunk in this afternoon as he has been. If I knew for certain I could grow him off well on milk replacer I would pull the little fellow.

I have been supplementing another calf. His mother is on the thin side. I just feed him a bottle to add to what he gets from momma. She comes to the tractor or 4 wheeler looking for a bottle. That calf is doing much better and so is momma since she has free choice quality hay. This is the first time I have ever tried supplementing a calf with milk while he was still on the pasture with the mother.

I wish I could make up my mind on what to do with the smaller twin.


----------



## Tim/South

I pulled both calves off their mothers today.
The twin is in pretty good shape. The heifer off the mother with little milk is not in as good of shape. I have tube fed her twice.
The little twin did not take to the bottle so I tubed him as well. He should come around to the bottle in a day or so.
The sickly heifer may get the old home remedy of warm water, corn syrup and a dash of baking soda in the morning.


----------



## Nitram

Tim, I started giving lucky a quart of electrolytes/warm water the second day after she took him got down and lethargic guessing she had mostly colostrum? His poops smelled sickly and going off color he's perked back up!
View attachment 438


----------



## mlappin

Update:

Ashley







the wife's new pet is getting wide as she is tall. She's eating enough hay and calf starter between bottles that she can barely finish a bottle of milk replacer. I was worried there for awhile as I couldn't get any real milk replacer as nobody I could think of had any fresh cows atm so we had to settle for powdered colostrum from TSC. Once before I lost a calf from not getting enough mother's milk and it was in the back of my mind since the wife claimed this one and named it right away we might lose her for the same reason.

Now for the strange part, the momma cow that had Ashley has another calf on her. We don't hardly ever have twins, just not in the genetics of the herd I guess, but she has a calf nursing on her. My thought is she had the male first, cleaned it up, let it nurse then went off in a different spot and had the wife's pet. Cleaned it up but said nope I already have one nursing, your not mine. This might not be a totally bad thing as it's a first calf momma, not exactly small but doesn't have near the bulk as a mature momma and I actually think the bottle fed calf has more bulk than the one momma is raising as momma don't have much of a bag under her anyways.

Now for the thousand dollar question, when we were milking anytime we had a mixed pair of twins we always peddled the female along with her brother as a freemartin even if they could reproduce never made much milk. I'm guessing it may not be a problem with beef cows? Few sets of twins we've had before were either both males or both females.


----------



## Nitram

Wish I knew the answer. I would think unless there is a malformed uterus or Fallopian tubes there shouldn't be a problem. But I would ask a vet three years is a big investment to find out she can't produce. Next problem is convincing the misses me thinks! Lol


----------



## mlappin

Nitram said:


> Wish I knew the answer. I would think unless there is a malformed uterus or Fallopian tubes there shouldn't be a problem. But I would ask a vet three years is a big investment to find out she can't produce. Next problem is convincing the misses me thinks! Lol


Yeah...I suppose wait and see. It isn't like Dad doesn't already have three worthless pets here at the farm that he hasn't even had a saddle on the last few years.


----------



## Tim/South

If twin calves are male and female there is a 90 percent chance the female will be a freemartin. They are connected by separate umbilical cords but the males testosterone is passed to the female as they develope.

I waited too long to pull my twin. He did not make it.


----------



## Nitram

Sorry to hear that Tim. I was rooting for the lil feller! Lucky is doing well and de de ( new momma) worries over him like my sister hence the name. I gotta quit naming them!


----------

