# HAY, dealers, brokers, feed stores, etc. My report from Dallas to El Campo TX



## NewB (Jul 16, 2011)

Hello all, a new member here....
Whether looking for square bales or round bales for sale, BE CAREFUL. We have been from Dallas to El Campo and are here to tell you about the slime balls we've run into.

Let's start with MANY that say they have it or going to get it but when you go there or the day of, they have some stupid excuse. Here's just one but they take the cake for stupidity. On Monday a business said they were going to have 3000 round bales on Saturday. We called to confirm everything was still on track Wednesday. We had to call 5 to 7 times (giving plenty of time an hour or so between calls) and NEVER got an answer NOR a call back. That made us worry so we tried calling many times Thursday and again on Friday. Finally late Friday night they answered and said "Sorry, My brother sold all 3000 round bales and didn't tell me". What a bunch of bull crap. Get real.

We spoke with a place in Navasota that had 5X6 "BIG" round bales. They were pricey but if they had them, it would be OK. We got there, saw the bales and they were ALL 4X5's. Another crock.

Another El Campo company is the latest- Again, are told they're baling it now, be in El Campo EARLY Saturday morning. As we were going to drive for hours to get there and spend about $100 in fuel, we started our calls to confirm the day before. You guessed it, never an answer and still to date not an answer, not a return call, no text back, and not an email, NOTHING. Another liar.

There are many stories we have on these scum bags out there dealing in hay. BE CAREFUL. Some have tried to sell us weeds, sticks, and who knows what else was in there as coastal.

Extreme drought has caused extreme rip offs and price gouging. It would seen they have piss poor character which is a shame, but with no way to stop them, they have nothing to lose. They don't have the balls or back bone to simply say they don't have it, they would rather lie and hope they can trick us. I hope this is the place we can post what we find (good and bad) so all ranchers know what's going on. Please do the same and let the dealers know we're joining forces and posting their acts here online. I hope you'll post your findings as well.

GOOD LUCK


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

To bad round bales didn't ship better, I have em coming out my ears atm. Not 3000 but still seem to have more than ever before, I've turned down some custom work as well as they want me to take the hay instead of cash, no thanks, I have literally no where left to put round bales atm and I'm not wasting building space on mature first cutting that I would normally use for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cuttings.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Also beware if selling to brokers.Their game here is to say they will take it and have you sit on it until price goes up.If it doesn't then they don't want it.Or they will say they will take it all then just take the best stuff and leave the rest.And bad checks.Get big downpayment if they expect you to hold it.And Cashiers check.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I know both companies he mentioned.....they're actually some of the better ones around here. Both are dealing with extreme demand and will typically cover their local customers before they will sell to someone out of the area. A friend is looking at 1000+ rounds in Louisiana this weekend. If he gets them, they will all be sold before the end of the week. Hay is available around here, but if you wait until you are completely out.....you will pay a premium.


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Mike,

Since you can give us a first hand knowledge of hay shortages and prices in SE Texas let me ask you this question. How much are people REALLY paying for hay???? Here in middle TN good tight 4x5 round bales of mixed grass hay are bringing between $25-$35 a roll. With shipping costs being around $3.50 a loaded mile how does anyone afford to buy hay from out of state? I'm 800 miles from Houston. The haul bill alone would be $2800. If you can fit 32 round bales on a load the costs of hay at 35.00 a bale would be $1120. Total cost to the buyer would be $3920. That rounds out to $122.50 a bale!!!!! Even if figured at $25 a roll the costs would be $112.50 a bale. Now I know there is hay alot closer to Houston than middle TN but still the costs just seem so high I don't know how anyone could afford that but then again this is coming from a poor ole country boy in TN! LOL. Let me know what you think Mike.

Kyle


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I just bought a truckload of small bermuda squares (horse quality...what ever that means) at $6/bale delivered. Typical prices I've been seeing are $7.50 - $9/bale. I know a number of smaller producers so my truckload purchases are big sales to them and easy money compared to their typical 10-25 bale sales. I have had some problems getting hay this year, but because I'm building inventory I can wait until I get a reasonable price before I buy. A friend just bought a truckload of Alfalfa small squares out of NM for $250/ton delivered. He'll probably sell them for around $14-$15/bale. I feed mine, he sells his, and he has a decent network of smaller out-of-state producers that bring him quality hay. He also produces grass hay, but will get grass hay out of the Western States when he sells out of his own. Both of us are able to get hay because we have good relationships with our suppliers, pay cash, unload, etc. We scratch each other's backs and everyone is happy. It isn't perfect, but it seems to work.

A lot of the people who are having problems are the ones who have always relied totally on their own production and have not developed a backup supply chain, bounced around to the cheapest suppliers (who are now not sustainable), or screwed the suppliers who now won't do business with them (or will charge them an arm and a leg). I can't cover all of my needs with my production and maintain a reasonable level of quality, so I need other producers. We understand each other's needs and try to work together.

Your math is pretty much correct and that's why you don't see many rounds crossing the State lines. I have seen rounds going for $125, but that seems to be the "buy-it-or-my-animals-starve" price and they're only being sold a couple at a time. I think $90 is probably the current average with a discount for volume. At the $125 level you are in alfalfa territory. A cow producer is better off buying a truckload of alfalfa (big or small squares) than a truckload of grass rounds....there's too much air and you can't fully load the truck.

Depending on what the weather does, the grass supply down here could get better, but it also could get much worse. Even with some rain, there will probably be a hay shortage this winter. There will either be a bigger animal sell off or the hay prices will go even higher. Horsey people are the most at risk as they are currently the ones paying the highest prices for hay because they can only handle a few bales at a time and cannot easily get rid of their animals. I'd be happy to feed them, but most can't afford my monthly board (in advance, thank you)....I don't run a shelter.

If you want to bring bales down here, they WILL sell. However, to make it worth your while, you'll have to haul them down here yourself and sell them. The prices on rounds down here are not high enough yet to cover the margins needed by brokers and resellers.

That's my view, other guys in the area will hopefully jump in and give you more feedback.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I did a quick search of Craigslist-Houston to see what was advertised and what the pricing was. Naturally there aren't too many listings right now but there are some scrap hay round bales listed for $60.....probably a couple of years old. Some Sudan Hay Grazer small squares for $7 with the notation that "Goats love them" and a girl to the West of me with decent Coastal-small squares $8.50, 4X5 rounds $100. She and her husband buy hay from the producers North of Houston (they've been getting more rain) and haul it down to their place where they store/sell it. They also produce some of their own. I expect they have about a 80%-90% markup to cover their hauling costs and profit. I used to get hay up there too, but I got old and lazy and found guys that deliver. There were also some ads from a guy in SC and a guy up above Dallas that is reselling big squares of alfalfa.


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks for the report Mike. After looking at the numbers I agree with you 100% about having to haul the hay down there myself to ever make it reasonable enough to sell. I was out of town and cell service range all weekend while we were camping and horseback riding in Shawnee national forest in IL, but I heard that the big storm you guys were hoping to get some rain from had kinda petered out????? I really hate it down there for all the hay and livestock producers. Wish there was more that we could do to help but the logistics seem to be such a big problem. Seems to me if I was a large cattle/livestock producer and living in a drier region such as the south west I would own a truck and trailer rig. That way in the dry years I could send my own truck to areas where hay was plentiful and not hay to pay the high shipping costs. A tank or two of diesel would be much cheaper than a 3.50 or 4.00 a loaded mile.

Kyle


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## jdhayboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Ahhh where to begin... the situation is getting to the point where it is really serious. Its August and I just cut a field for the first time, should more than likely have been the third cutting.
Hay Prices: Last year, a lot of hay around we got avg: $7.50 horse sq bales; $90 undercover horse rd ; $75 outsidehorse rd; other round bales $40-$65; had a few cheap sq at $5 and some rye grass at $3-$4 baled 40,000 sqs and over 5000 rds and all hay was sold by the end of march; that is the most hay we have ever baled but we also baled more acreage than ever aswell
Hay Prices: This year so far for us... $8.50 horse sq. (this will be cheap come winter, IMO); $90-$110 horse rd (price of hay depends on what i have to pay, 5x5.5ft rds were the $110); outside rds (well, there arent any, its all the same price, if i get the hay fresh it goes under the lein-to); Cow rds anywhere from $70-$90 (Again, big bales are $90); 3x3x6 alfalfa $125 All of this subject to change everyday because I never know what I will have to pay for the hay. The few rounds we have baled (5x5), late april i sold some cow hay $55 (It was really good hay, new field that had a few berry vines in it), now showered on hay, if your lucky to have any to cut goes for $75; my good horse rounds are going for $100, They are currently not for sale (only have bout 50 left, only baled about 200, should be pushin 3000 by now) as I am trying to take care of my true customers. Had a guy call today that wanted a semi load of sq bales at $8.50, I kindly told him no that I am keeping what little hay I have for my people. Currently I have ZERO horse rounds and about 1000 sqs. 
I think prices are pretty fair considering what we get on hay during a normal year. My goal in selling round bales is to avg. $20 a bale. I make $10 on some and $30 on others depending on my cost and quality of hay. Buying and reselling hay only attempts to pay the bills. Now, If I had regular job somewhere and bought and sold a few rounds on the side now you would be making some money.
If I wanted to be a BUTT about it I bet I could $125 a rd for my good hay. But I don't think thats fair especially to my people that stick with me. Always my advice to anyone I speak with (customers) about hay is "that if they find some hay that there animals will eat and its a good price, DO NOT hesitate to buy every bale that you will need to get you thru til next may." 
The hay situation here super serious, there are people getting a little rain, but its hit or miss at best and they cant provide the whole state with one cutting.


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## jdhayboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Back again...
My prediction is that there will be nearly zero good horse quality hay. Or at least what I call horse hay. It is hard to find any bermuda grass right now, WAIT till winter time. Cow hay right now has become rice stubble, milo stubble, corn stalks, basically failed crops and crop residue are the cow hay. Oh and salt grass, if your cows eat it you are the lucky few.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

We have been hitting our fields hard with nutrients to get a good 4th cut here in south Georgia. Baling Alicia, and tift 85, we had no precept early, finally getting some now, we do have irrigated land but that hay cost us 110$ a round bale to produce, hopefully we continue to receive some rain and other areas will finally see some!


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## Tim(Tx) (May 13, 2011)

I am getting in two load of 4x4 round bales of mixed grass Monday thru Friday. I do have some 4x5 of cow hay, and it has some weeds too it. Price is $55 on the 4x4 and $65 on the 4x5. I am located in Bonham,tx. You will hae to arrange your own haulers. That is what runs the cost up on the hay.


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