# Re-Baling



## Farmer Mark (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm kinda of new to haymaking. 2012 was my first year. I met all my goals, sold all my hay and could have easily tripled my sales without any advertising... I'm baling using JD 5625, NH 5060, 10 wheel speed rate, 4 basket tedder pulling a kicker wagon with a helper stacking the bales as they come off the wagon, carrying the bales and unloading and stacking in the barn (over and over again). To reduce labor and be able to get the hay into the barn quicker (short windows of opportunity with the wet spring on 1st cutting) I'm thinking of getting a round baler to get the hay to the barn quicker. Then, tubeline has a round bale unroller; 3 models (trailer, 3 pt hitch, and stationary) to unroll the bales in front of the square baler and make the squares as I need them from inside the barn, so weather isn't the issue. So, I would be looking at the stationary model.

http://tubeline.ca/products/BaleFeeder/ is their website.

I've seen a couple of local guys with big operations with rebalers, but they have 30 - 50 K invested in some pretty intense customized equipment.

I actually bought some round bales and unrolled them by hand and pitch forked them into the square baler just so I could keep my reqular customers supplied.

Has anybody used one of these unrollers? I think their designed purpose is to reed out round bales to cows and am wondering if anybody has an opinion of whether this would be a good approach? If I run out of my own hay, I can always find more round bales (profit won't be as much)... But I've got haymaking fever and I can't get enough of doing it..!

Thanks in advance for opinions and advice!


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

Farmer Mark said:


> I'm kinda of new to haymaking. 2012 was my first year. I met all my goals, sold all my hay and could have easily tripled my sales without any advertising... I'm baling using JD 5625, NH 5060, 10 wheel speed rate, 4 basket tedder pulling a kicker wagon with a helper stacking the bales as they come off the wagon, carrying the bales and unloading and stacking in the barn (over and over again). To reduce labor and be able to get the hay into the barn quicker (short windows of opportunity with the wet spring on 1st cutting) I'm thinking of getting a round baler to get the hay to the barn quicker. Then, tubeline has a round bale unroller; 3 models (trailer, 3 pt hitch, and stationary) to unroll the bales in front of the square baler and make the squares as I need them from inside the barn, so weather isn't the issue. So, I would be looking at the stationary model.
> 
> http://tubeline.ca/p...cts/BaleFeeder/ is their website.
> 
> ...


Hey Farmer Mark,

Well like you said "you have haymaking fever". But when you look at the costs of unrolling a big round and making it into squares, does it really make it worth your while? Just break down the costs and earnings and that will be your answer.

After buying a round baler, you may just want to put up big rounds







. Just a warning.

Good luck, and let me know how it works out if you happen to go this way.

Regards,

Richard


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes you just may want to only put up round bales. Their advantage is the higher capacity.

Now under normal conditions your square baler will shatter off 2% to 10% dry matter, most of which are leaves. 
A round baler will shatter off 5% to 30% of the dry matter, most of which are leaves.
Ideal is to bale with 65% relative humidity. The heavy loss of dry matter is in the 50% relative humidity range.
At the better humidity the hay will be in the 18% moisture range.
At the worst humidity the hay will be in the 12% moisture range.

Regardless the protein of the hay will be at least one percent ( 1%) lower with the round baled hay. This is assuming using net wrap. String wrap is worse.

Now realize you rebaling you are adding leaf loss to already high leaf loss. You are loosing both quality and quantity.

I suggest you look how many hours you can bale square bales. Starting with fully cured hay, and 70% humidity. If you have a 4 hour window and you can bale 6 bales a minute, with no stops Say average 4 bales a minute, that is 240 bales an hour, or at best 900 bales a day. (My window here is 2 hours, 3 at most!)
That is cut only 10 acres at a time. Never have more than two patches on the ground at any one time. This reduces your exposure. 
I use http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf as my primary guide. 
Then I looked at http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-454/442-454.html (I hope your note I am in Central Texas)
From there do you own search for information. If you want you can e-mail me direct at [email protected]
Have a grand and glorious season.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Last year I unrolled several rounds & re-baled small square's, the first square I've baled in about 30 years. Had a heck of a time with the hay already packed tight, busting bales, sheer pins etc. Finally ran the excuse I had for a rake @ the time (4wheel 3pt hitch) thru to spread it out & back in a fluffier windrow, it helped a lot, but still a pain. A local custom baler has a 'bale-buster' he uses for scattering planting, says it'll also put out a nice windrow that would make easy baling.
But like others said, you'll loose a fair amount of quantity and quality. But not as much as several acres getting 'pre-washed'!


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Mark, Welcome to the site. Glad you joined us. In my opinion, you would be better off buying some extra wagons and try to put up as many bales as possible in small squares. As Bill stated, you will lose all the good stuff when rebaling. I am familiar with your area near Warrenton. Beautiful country. Mike


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

Farmer Mark - the money/time/energy you would expend pursuing this invites a look at other options...

How about encouraging your current customers to switch to round bales? Suggest they purchase a round bale feeder (recently reviewed in another HayTalk post). You could probably deliver the round bales to them and likely spend less time and energy than you would re-baling. Don't have a trailer for delivering hay? You could buy a new one for less $$ than a round bale unroller.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Yes you just may want to only put up round bales. Their advantage is the higher capacity.
> 
> Now under normal conditions your square baler will shatter off 2% to 10% dry matter, most of which are leaves.
> A round baler will shatter off 5% to 30% of the dry matter, most of which are leaves.
> ...


Allow me to add one thing to this please Mr Wilson; In my area, I find a most people run their round balers way too slow on ground speed, and too high on the PTO. The lesser hay going in the pickup, the more hay that touches them belts that love to make chaff IMO.
I also find round bales to be a lot more forgiving to higher moistures, so I bale RB's a bit wetter than squares.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I second adding more wagons and might I add another baler if squares are the end product you desire. Flat or gently rolling fields will allow for a tandem baler hitch. I dabbled a bit rebaling this past fall and determined the profit margin just wasn't there. It absolutely destroyed alfala and most timothy or OG bales I could find were substandard to be kind about it.
The rounds I was working with were irregular and I'm gonna guess the fields were raked haphazardly. Most had big sections of mold and I wound up throwing away more than I made. I guess that whole operation should be in "red-faced haying moments". Compliments askinner. Long story short I wouldn't do it again in my climate I can't speak for yours.
Here, in the Northeast, there is a hay operation on an old AFB up in Geneva Top Quality Hay Producers. They cut and take it directly to an oven then to the baler. Claims to be a four hour process. They run the balers darn near around the clock.


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

For me, I can make a lot more on the square than the rolls. Sounds like you would be better off to invest in a accumlator or some type of stack wagon. Either would cut time and money off your operation.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Opposite here, rounds have to be a % or two drier or they will dust. I do agree with ground speed, when we round baled the baler was happiest running flat out.

We rebaled a few rounds but it was not worth it for us, it wasn't going to pay well. Sold the round baler, only miss it on years we have rained on hay that isn't worth anything as square. Would be nice to roll it all up. Working on speeding up our square bale handling instead.



askinner said:


> I also find round bales to be a lot more forgiving to higher moistures, so I bale RB's a bit wetter than squares.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Like a lot of people, I've envisioned baling hay with a round baler to beat the weather and then rebaling into square. Tried it a few times just to see how it would turn out. Not too good - and that was with grass hay.

I guess if you were serious about it, you could invest in a setup like this:


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## Farmer Mark (Aug 27, 2011)

To all:

I sincerely thank everyone for their very astute and well received comments as they all have great value. I think one of the reasons I enjoy farming so well, especially haying, is folks like you all who freely give great advice. With my "regular" job inside the D.C. beltway (that pays for my farm habit), i deal with less than desirable people (if you catch my drift) and you'all restore my faith that there are good folks still out in the real world who earn a real and honest living! I'm looking forward to the day that I can make a complete switch over and stop playing this double life! I have learn how to make a million by farming ..start out with 2 million









Anyway, to Richards point about acceptable profit, here are the figures...

Direct costs
14 round bales (Brome/Timothy mix) @ 45 630.00
$50 Diesel to pick them up 
$60 Farm help
$2 Tylenole for sore back from pitch forking
hay into square baler
Total costs 742.00

Made 212 bales from them @ 6.25 1,325.00

Net Profit 583.00

Of course this doesn't take into account baler twine, wear and tear on equipment, my labor, etc. I can roughly double the gross profit with square bales... Does that sound about right?

From a quality standpoint, I try to cater to horse folks. I find them extremely finicky.. You know the type... Even if they had a child who fell and skinned their knee, the child would have to wait for a band-aid if it was feeding time for their horse....







Anyway, I find if I can please them, then I know I'm doing OK...

My fields are dedicated to Orchard Grass, and this particular customer only likes timothy. My main desire was to get her as a customer even if I had to have less than a profit margin. My thought process is if I run out again next year and had a rebaling operation in full swing, I could then order larger loads by tractor trailer vice my 14K gooseneck of different types at hopefully cheaper prices... I can pick up mulch hay sometimes at $10 a round bale and sell it @ 3.25 a square for all the construction projects around here that your tax dollars are paying for.... But... my main goal is to win blue ribbon at the County Fair for best hay!

I still need to do the math on what I grow...seed, fuel, fertilizer, my labor, equipment, etc. on what it costs me to make my own hay but think the versatility is a big plus...

I just remember around here, especially with first cutting, the window of opportunity is very short. I pulled 105 bales per acre (50 lbs bales) on first cutting and barely got it in the barn before it started raining. This year, I'm planting all my fields (6 times as much as last year) and I'm worried whether I can get it all in before it heads out and gets too stemmy if I do it in 10 acre stints.

My local NH dealer has a nice used 740 that I got my eye on... I hope I don't offend anyone, but I am a drive Green pull Red kind of guy. Actually, it is the NH dealer that makes the difference as they are always there for this greenhorn! JD is a great tractor, but JD dealers are getting pretty pricey for the reputation and comparative value... You folks gave me a lot to think about whether I take it a step further to rebale, or just sell the round bales in combination with making all I can in square bales...

Thanks again and I hope one day I can pass on some lessons learned to someone else starting out...

-Farmer Mark


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

askinner said:


> Allow me to add one thing to this please Mr Wilson; In my area, I find a most people run their round balers way too slow on ground speed, and too high on the PTO. The lesser hay going in the pickup, the more hay that touches them belts that love to make chaff IMO.
> I also find round bales to be a lot more forgiving to higher moistures, so I bale RB's a bit wetter than squares.


I'll second this. I mow with a 13' discbine, even my heaviest 1st cutting still gets raked with a v rake so I have 26' of hay in a row, I may have to slow down a lot on groundspeed but the baler is running at full capacity which considerably reduces loss. In lighter hay if required I'll rake 4 rows together so I can keep the baler at full capacity. I like to make a 1000lb bale in 30 seconds or less, then add wrapping and discharge and I'm running about a 1000lb bale in less than a minute.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

mlappin said:


> I'll second this. I mow with a 13' discbine, even my heaviest 1st cutting still gets raked with a v rake so I have 26' of hay in a row, I may have to slow down a lot on groundspeed but the baler is running at full capacity which considerably reduces loss. In lighter hay if required I'll rake 4 rows together so I can keep the baler at full capacity. I like to make a 1000lb bale in 30 seconds or less, then add wrapping and discharge and I'm running about a 1000lb bale in less than a minute.


I am the same, pull as much hay into one windrow as possible (which is generally 32' of alfalfa, the rake and tractor clearance usually become the limiting factor). If I'm not hearing the pickup clutch a few times a night, I'm not feeding it hard enough. I set my windrows the full width of the baler pickup, having two of the, side by side, just touching, this makes the perfect round bale. Baling this way, I seem to be opening the gate more than moving, which in my view is productivity. Discbines and round/big square balers were designed to eat hay fast, if they're not doing it, you're wasting money IMO. The lesser and larger the windrows also means less ground compaction and stand damage. One of my main focuses when setting out a cut is minimising traffic. Bigger windrows also mean your bales aren't spread out as much, and if your windrows are consistent, they all end up in groups around the field.

I used to only make small windrows, and found I used to lose massive amounts of leaf, I went as big with the windrows as possible, and fed the baler as hard as it would take, and now it leaves little to no chaff where I eject. Not to mention the time saved by having less windrows, which also helps when you've got very limited windows of good baling conditions as I do at the moment where it's a balancing act between too dry, and heavy dews.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've seen folks poking along baling tiny little rows at walking speed with a round baler. Not sure what the malfunction was but double the rows up and ditto on the ground speed.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

hay wilson in TX said:


> A round baler will shatter off 5% to 30% of the dry matter, most of which are leaves.
> .


If someone is loosing 30% they have alot to learn about round baleing.If you know what you are doing you will not loose anymore then a square baler,probably less.

Rakeing and baleing with a dew.

Make large windrows as wide as pickup.

Quit when you start loosing a few leaves.

Newer rd balers are designed better with alot less loss.Not much gaps between belts.Old chain types beat the crap out of dry hay.

So if the hay was raked properly for the Rd baler I don't think it would be possible to loose 30% no matter how dry it is.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If you are selling rebaled hay at 6.25 a bay, sign me up! They would get less than 2.50 a bale here. Maybe I should run some loads to the US! I could drive about 900$ worth and still make money on each 300 bale load. A transport truck load would be even better.



Farmer Mark said:


> Made 212 bales from them @ 6.25 1,325.00


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

RockmartGA said:


> Like a lot of people, I've envisioned baling hay with a round baler to beat the weather and then rebaling into square. Tried it a few times just to see how it would turn out. Not too good - and that was with grass hay.


Look at all the leaves built up under the unroller, I think a guy is kidding himself if he thinks he can unroll alfalfa and actually have any leaves make it to the square baler.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I was wondering what had happened to this place.They had contacted me a couple times trying to buy hay,CHEAP!Could of been some cheap eq?_

_http://www.suttonauc...apremiumhay.htm_


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> If you are selling rebaled hay at 6.25 a bay, sign me up! They would get less than 2.50 a bale here. Maybe I should run some loads to the US! I could drive about 900$ worth and still make money on each 300 bale load. A transport truck load would be even better.


Looks like 920 miles.Don't look very profitable to me.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

920 miles would get me to somewhere south of new york but the time and hassle of trucking it through the US seaboard, not worth it. There are long haul truckers here that will buy at 2-2.50 a bale from your barn, they are a fairly shady lot though. Ripped off lots of folks.


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## deerrunhaycp (Oct 17, 2008)

I'm in the same boat, except with mulch hay. Baled about 1200 rounds into mulch hay this summer. The market got over run, and the broker who we sell to ( he is actually a really reliable guy) is having a hard time moving our hay. In order to get some of my money back I think I need to start rebaling.

I found a round bale unroller spear that may work, and be a cheap investment. It is made by work saver, and it's called a R.W. Spinoff. you can mount it on a loader or 3pt. Hopefully I can rig a shoot in front of the baler and feed it easily in the barn. I'm sure I'll lose money on this deal, but got to get some of my investment back. The salesman said it's around $2400.00 for the loader mounted one.


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> _I was wondering what had happened to this place.They had contacted me a couple times trying to buy hay,CHEAP!Could of been some cheap eq?_
> 
> _http://www.suttonauc...apremiumhay.htm_


The press brought 81k + 4% city tax. I know because I bid 80k. Machine was rough and 500 miles from me. It went to indiana.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

HALLSHAY said:


> The press brought 81k + 4% city tax. I know because I bid 80k. Machine was rough and 500 miles from me. It went to indiana.


Have you priced a new one? Just curious what they run.


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

They start about 300-325k for a low density press. Anything bigger and you jump up between 500k and a million. Some of the hunterwood export presses are closer to 2 million.


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## farmin14 (Feb 24, 2013)

We have been rebaling a lot. Neighbor built a machine. Bale buster that feeds a conveyor and that feeds the square baler. It works good. Costs me a buck a bale. I think its cheaper to bale it square the first time, but if you are out of hay it is what it is. Also weve been putting big squares through it. It doesnt work quite as well because every once in a while a big clump will end up in the baler but thats only once or twice on a load of 700 bales.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I'll tell ya this, you will never know what ur getting with rounds and the quality you send to your horsey folk will forever be the determining factor as to whether they purchase from you in the future, rebale cautiously....


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## farmin14 (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh I know. We are baling with 2 or 3 different trailers sitting there and basically sorting as they come off the baler. Once we hit a good section generally I know how good or not good they are and we make a load of it. The big squares are harder to tell. Again not the way to go out of the field but we've used up most of the squares I can find and there are lots of rounds available.


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## peaches (Dec 27, 2012)

I use the Alison Bale Converter to convert round rolls to square bales. It has worked for me. I think it depends on how many rolls you intend to unroll. It may not be profitable in a small operation. It has been very profitable for me. I have done it for about 12 years now.


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## alison farms (Jan 17, 2013)

If you figure the cost of equipment you have invested in square baling in the field and moving the hay to the barn ie accumalaters, crapples, tractors, bale wagons etc. The cost of a stationary type bale processor turns out to be not as expensive as it may seem Or if you lose a 1000 sq bales due to rain that could have been round baled


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