# New Holland: Roll-Belt-450-Utility ?



## DSLinc1017

I have been having some of our hay done in large squares by a few local's. The large squares are great, easy to stack, move, cover and feed. My issue is scedualing them to bale it when it's time. Last summer I came down to the wire on one field and the last one it didn't happen at all. Fortunately a friend was able to make it over and bale it up in 4x5 rounds. In turn I now have a few customers that want me to make more for them next summer, as they liked what my friend did up for me. FYI, it was a hall for him to come roll for me. 
Long story shortened, I'm toying with getting a round baler. Let me re-fraze that, I'm looking at getting an inexpensive baler that works! I don't want to get into some one else's used mess, as I don't have much experience with them, and won't have much time this summer to be tinkering with one. ( I am fine at fixing my equipment, just don't want a headacke)

SO.... New Holland has this inexpensive 450 Utility, that could fit my price range new, or slightly used.

Does any one have any advice or experience with them? Or are there other round balers I should be looking at in the slightly used or inexpensive new category? My close local dealers are NH and JD. I'm not stuck to a particular color.

If it turns out that there is a particular model out there that typicaly just needs certain bearings replaced or a known default that is easly fixed, then your good to go, I might conceded that too!

I would be primarily be putting up around 30 to 40 acres of first cut. Second always goes In to small squares.

Thanks to you all for at least reading this post, I'm at your service to those that actually respond with advice! (Within reason). 
Cheers, Michael.


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## 8350HiTech

New equipment. That rules me out !


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## FarmerCline

I think I remember someone on here saying they had a good experience with theirs but I know of 4 NH 450 roll belts that were bought last spring that had issues from the beginning. I don't remember exactly what as a lot has happened since the and I don't see these individuals very often as we don't see eye to eye. I do remember it had something to do with the tailgate and after they got that fixed they had other issues throughout the year. The bales it made were nice looking. I think part of the problem is the baler is too light weight.

If I were going to look into getting one of the so called "economy model" balers I would look at one of the Vermeer rebel balers, the current model is the 5420. It weights 4,700 pounds while the NH 450 weights 3,300 pounds.....that is a big difference. I have seen both of these balers sitting side by side and the Vermeer is just an overall better built machine and it seems to be simpler also. The NH 450 was made to compete with the Vermeer rebel balers so the price should be close.

I'm not sure if JD has a entry level baler to compete with the NH and Vermeer and their standard 4x5 baler will be a more deluxe machine with a higher price tag. I know JD has a 4x4 baler but I would stay away from that small of a bale.....just a lot more to move out of the field and you don't have the option to make a 4x5 if the customer wanted it.

What can you sell 4x5 roll of hay for in Vermont? I got out of round hay because I could not sell them for more than break even price.


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## GawasFarm

What is your price range? I am not sure what the new roll a belt goes for but I know of good round balers with 4000or less bales through them can be had in the 18-20,000 range no problem. You could take one with some more and save some money since you are only going to be putting 300 4x5s through it a year depending on your crop.

I have a br7060 silage special and love it. Only have experience with NH but stay away from bar style balers belts are more forgiving IMHO


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## 8350HiTech

Turns out I do have an opinion after all.

Aside from your friend, is there no one else nearby doing custom rounds? Because, frankly, if you don't want breakdowns and you're not going to use it much, I can't fathom how you can justify owning a new or near-new machine compared to hiring out the job. 30-40 acres is one day. Dropping new baler money for something that gets fewer days use than your Christmas tree makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I guess if there's nobody to hire ...


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## GawasFarm

I wish I could hire in my area......only one dealership my side of the board for probably 300 miles and they let you know it when you pull out your wallet. Can't even get demos......makes start up so much harder.


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## hog987

I have a roll belt 450. I think it is an alright baler. Ya the baler is light but it seems to have the weight where needed. In the last 1.5 hay seasons a I have put up just under 4000 bales through this machine. The only real problem I had was with the auto tie. Stumped the service guys too. Would not auto tie but could manaul tie. Turned out to be just a wire that was not stripped far enough back when put in harness. Simple to fix hard to.find.

The baler is fast. I just use twine and have put up 46 900 pound bales an hour. With a different tractor that could be increased by a bit more. That is with lots of twine also.

The baler does not cost a lot. My was 18000 brand new with the options of the larger tires baler kicker and gathering wheels. Oh also the guage wheels on the pick up.

A few things when running mine. The chain on the twine arm falls off after about 1500-1800 bales so have to make sure to keep bolts tight. There is one rollet on the back where the hay likes to get under. Than when tying a bale the hay likes to go between the belts. So have to keep the roller clean. Also in fine hay when tying there is a pile up of hay on left side. Sometimes this gets in the way of closing the gate after dumping a bale. Sometimes i can shake it off by moving the end gate with the hydrulics other times have to get off tractor and remove by hand. In really heavy double windrows have to remove the wind guard to feed the hay into chamber. This was in a 20 foot cut that was yieldind 11-12 bales per acre. So really heavy but the baler would take it in.

All and all i think it is a nice baler and for the money cant be beat. One other thing i forgot. The pickup teeth are closer together. Si it will pick up rocks. U guess that is one way to get rid of some. Beats picking them by hand.


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## cornshucker

Hesston makes a nice 4 x 5 economy model that does a good job.


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## DSLinc1017

GawasFarm said:


> What is your price range? I am not sure what the new roll a belt goes for but I know of good round balers with 4000or less bales through them can be had in the 18-20,000 range no problem. You could take one with some more and save some money since you are only going to be putting 300 4x5s through it a year depending on your crop.
> 
> I have a br7060 silage special and love it. Only have experience with NH but stay away from bar style balers belts are more forgiving IMHO


I was hoping to spend around 15k NH has 0% until March. I haven't gone to the dealer yet, but just looking on TH they are around 18 new, I would love to spend a lot less! a good used baler is definitely an option.


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## DSLinc1017

8350HiTech said:


> Turns out I do have an opinion after all.
> 
> Aside from your friend, is there no one else nearby doing custom rounds? Because, frankly, if you don't want breakdowns and you're not going to use it much, I can't fathom how you can justify owning a new or near-new machine compared to hiring out the job. 30-40 acres is one day. Dropping new baler money for something that gets fewer days use than your Christmas tree makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I guess if there's nobody to hire ...


Awesome! Opinions!

I hear you, and to some degree your on the money. But... There are a few other farms around but not in every direction, the folks that are baling are doing it for their own business / animals. Its hard to rely on them to get the hay up when its ready as they are getting theirs up first. As far as I know no one in the are is doing just custom work. I would be all about getting a used baler and spending a lot less. Its finding the deal with little knowledge that i'm up against.


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## DSLinc1017

FarmerCline said:


> I think I remember someone on here saying they had a good experience with theirs but I know of 4 NH 450 roll belts that were bought last spring that had issues from the beginning. I don't remember exactly what as a lot has happened since the and I don't see these individuals very often as we don't see eye to eye. I do remember it had something to do with the tailgate and after they got that fixed they had other issues throughout the year. The bales it made were nice looking. I think part of the problem is the baler is too light weight.
> 
> If I were going to look into getting one of the so called "economy model" balers I would look at one of the Vermeer rebel balers, the current model is the 5420. It weights 4,700 pounds while the NH 450 weights 3,300 pounds.....that is a big difference. I have seen both of these balers sitting side by side and the Vermeer is just an overall better built machine and it seems to be simpler also. The NH 450 was made to compete with the Vermeer rebel balers so the price should be close.
> 
> I'm not sure if JD has a entry level baler to compete with the NH and Vermeer and their standard 4x5 baler will be a more deluxe machine with a higher price tag. I know JD has a 4x4 baler but I would stay away from that small of a bale.....just a lot more to move out of the field and you don't have the option to make a 4x5 if the customer wanted it.
> 
> What can you sell 4x5 roll of hay for in Vermont? I got out of round hay because I could not sell them for more than break even price.


All good things to hear, I never thought I would be considering a round baler myself. Not to mention the feed value goes down. They seem to have one big advantage, getting a lot of hay up quickly and with little expense, a lot less labor than say small squares. I now have several customers that are using small squares and rounds. they put the rounds out in the pastures for some horses as boredom hay and fill the barns with smalls for night time and cold weather. So having both smalls and rounds makes me a one stop shop. As far as pricing yes your right, I can actually make money with smalls, the market for dry rounds in this area is about $45, large squares go for $60 Not including delivery, or aggravation fee.

Something to note, I'm also making hay for our own animals, horses, sheep llamas and these very strange Alpaca things.


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## 8350HiTech

Preface: I am not trying to pick on anyone.

Let's list the facts here. 
If you'll now be doing the baling, you're supplying fuel, net, and labor. (The labor to bale is also an opportunity cost in that you can't be hauling bales off the field as you could be if someone else is baling for you.)
You now own a baler. You have to maintain it, store it, just plain understand it. You're also 15k poorer. 
For this "investment" of money, labor, and opportunity cost you ...

Get $15 LESS PER BALE compared to hiring the 3x3 guy. I know you say getting them to your farm is like pulling teeth, but it sounds like you could risk a few root canals.

I guess you could buy an especially cheap round baler for the days that you absolutely can't get another baler to show up, but every time you take a round baler to the field with your local pricing, you're losing money.

Pick anyone from a business other than farming and they would laugh at owning your own equipment for this.

Again, this is just my interpretation of the facts. Rant over.


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## Josh in WNY

Wish I had known you were looking for a baler. I was at an auction on Saturday where a very lightly used MF 1744 round baler went for $6,600.00. Only had twine tie, but looked in really nice shape.


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## DSLinc1017

8350HiTech said:


> Preface: I am not trying to pick on anyone.
> 
> Let's list the facts here.
> If you'll now be doing the baling, you're supplying fuel, net, and labor. (The labor to bale is also an opportunity cost in that you can't be hauling bales off the field as you could be if someone else is baling for you.)
> You now own a baler. You have to maintain it, store it, just plain understand it. You're also 15k poorer.
> For this "investment" of money, labor, and opportunity cost you ...
> 
> Get $15 LESS PER BALE compared to hiring the 3x3 guy. I know you say getting them to your farm is like pulling teeth, but it sounds like you could risk a few root canals.
> 
> I guess you could buy an especially cheap round baler for the days that you absolutely can't get another baler to show up, but every time you take a round baler to the field with your local pricing, you're losing money.
> 
> Pick anyone from a business other than farming and they would laugh at owning your own equipment for this.
> 
> Again, this is just my interpretation of the facts. Rant over.


Nice Rant!

I do own another business, and lest I say its not a one man operation by far. I have 10 full time employees and 35 part timers. So I have a pretty good understanding of P and L as well as the current tax code. with that said, yes the first few years would be a loss. I don't plan to make money in one or two years with capitol investments.

I didn't mention that there are also cost's associated with having custom work done, with the tune of $15 per large square. That cost in itself takes a big bite out of a 0% loan for 15k for 5 years.

With this said, yes I do understand your math, what your math does't factor in is the rest of the picture of the business.

So with out going further, can you suggest a model of round baler that are reliable when used, that fit in with your math figures. Don't get me wrong, i'm not made out of money and would love to pick up something reliable for 6k!!

As far as root canals, I'm haying about 65 acres. With the weather like its been, I cant afford that kind of dentist!


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## DSLinc1017

Josh in WNY said:


> Wish I had known you were looking for a baler. I was at an auction on Saturday where a very lightly used MF 1744 round baler went for $6,600.00. Only had twine tie, but looked in really nice shape.


Twine is preferred, is 1744 a reliable baler?


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## Maryland Ridge Farms

I bought a new Vermeer 505m after having 2 new Holland balers since 1982. The Vermeer is a great value and a great baler. Look for a good used one or do like I did and find a last years model that the dealer wanted to move. Good luck


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## DSLinc1017

Maryland Ridge Farms said:


> I bought a new Vermeer 505m after having 2 new Holland balers since 1982. The Vermeer is a great value and a great baler. Look for a good used one or do like I did and find a last years model that the dealer wanted to move. Good luck


Thanks, I will look into it. However one issue I have is the closest dealer is a state away.


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## hillside hay

I've been looking at the 450's as well. Around here used round balers of any color are the same price as a new 450 roll belt.


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## hog987

hillside hay said:


> I've been looking at the 450's as well. Around here used round balers of any color are the same price as a new 450 roll belt.


That is one reason why I got the 450. They say it is for guys putting up to 1000 bales per year. I still have no figured out what happens when you go over that. Since I have done twice that.

One thing when I was in the dealer lot looking at this baler it was beside the biggest new holland. So I started to measure shafts. Cant remember all the figures now but the main bottom roller that the bale sits on on the 450 was 1-3/8 inch over a 4 foot distance. The bigger one (7090?) was 1.5 inches over a 5 foot distance. So in the end the 450 is bulit stronger for the size of bale it makes and the weight of the bales.


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## DSLinc1017

hillside hay said:


> I've been looking at the 450's as well. Around here used round balers of any color are the same price as a new 450 roll belt.


Exactly why this unit peaked my interest. I'm not producing large quantities, producing non the less. I figure with the price tag and what I plan on producing it makes buying new reasonable. Did NH do their home work on small scale farms?


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## hog987

I read something awhile ago when I was looking at buying my 450. First the 450 was the first in a new series of balers from new holland. With the bigger ones coming out later. They speed things up on the baler to increase capacity. Second this new series of balers was to be simple and low cost. While everyone else seems to be increasing the cost of there balers new holland was trying to go the other way but still have a good simple realiable baler. Seen this when I saw the price of the new john deere balers. Just under $60000


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## discbinedr

hog987 said:


> I read something awhile ago when I was looking at buying my 450. First the 450 was the first in a new series of balers from new holland. With the bigger ones coming out later. They speed things up on the baler to increase capacity. Second this new series of balers was to be simple and low cost. While everyone else seems to be increasing the cost of there balers new holland was trying to go the other way but still have a good simple realiable baler. Seen this when I saw the price of the new john deere balers. Just under $60000


My understanding is that the bigger models are coming out this year and the heavy duty 450 next year. 450 utility is considered light duty , economy version. New Holland would be nuts if they built all their balers that light.


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## DSLinc1017

Yes, I'm still at it here, It seems a lot of you like the Vermeer, I found a 504 L not to far from me listed at $7,800. Does any one have an opinion? are there things I should look at?

Thanks!


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## deadmoose

Dsl- I am looking for something similar. As with you cost would say hire it out. But I don't want to. My small Hesston broke last year. Not worth fixing for me. I want a reasonably priced 4*5 baler to bale about 45 acres a year. So maybe 350 bales a year to start if I am lucky. I keep hearing negatives from everyone but hog987 on the 450. I do not want someone else's problem. I don't want to wrench on something. So new appeals to me. As well as financing deals.

I have looked at Vermeer rebel 5420 nh rb 450 and know Massey 1745 is another option. What are pros and con's of each (with net wrap) and are there any other options in this category?


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## DSLinc1017

deadmoose said:


> Dsl- I am looking for something similar. As with you cost would say hire it out. But I don't want to. My small Hesston broke last year. Not worth fixing for me. I want a reasonably priced 4*5 baler to bale about 45 acres a year. So maybe 350 bales a year to start if I am lucky. I keep hearing negatives from everyone but hog987 on the 450. I do not want someone else's problem. I don't want to wrench on something. So new appeals to me. As well as financing deals.
> 
> I have looked at Vermeer rebel 5420 nh rb 450 and know Massey 1745 is another option. What are pros and con's of each (with net wrap) and are there any other options in this category?


I'm going to go look at a barely used NH 7050, its a few years old and has had less than 1000 bales through it. Price tag is 10,500. And I can finance it. I'm not sure if it does net wrap. down side it will only do a 4x4. I know net wrap is a lot quicker, but I'm not doing too much and so twine will work. As well the several horse customers hat have contracted with me for next year want twine anyway. I'm still going to look at the vermeer too, the thing that scares me on the vermeer is the nearest service is 5 hours away. I looked at a Massey yesterday at the local farm show, it looked solid. And the price wasn't to bad around 19k. I think that price was a show special. The show special for a 7050 was 16k cash. I spoke with a friend at the show who has and loves his vermeer Tedder. His point on service was tha the dealer, local NH typicaly has to order the part any way so having a dealer near doesn't matter to him. With a grain of salt he also has a very large well run operation with mostly new equipment, so breakdowns aren't to commen.

Oh and on the 450, our local NH dealer has been pushing the 7050 and 7060 balers, not sure why, I haven't asked. 
I'll let you know what I come up with!


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## Grateful11

Our local NH dealer moves quite a few 450 balers. I asked him if he had had many complaints. He said the first few he sold had some problems but the ones he had sold this past year he had almost nothing out of. We've known the guy for a long time but he's still a dealer looking to sell so you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. Like some have said they are a bit light but no lighter than our JD 448 and it never misses a beat, knock on wood. The shipping weight on a JD 449 3360#. Weight on a basic NH 450 with no options is 3300#, so add a couple things and it's probably heavier than a 449. As I've said before my beef with the Vermeer Rebel is no bale shape indicators, if they would add that to their Rebel balers and it would be a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. A fully optioned Rebel 5420, weighs 4700#, there's some beef there somewhere.


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## hog987

Everyone gets caught up on the weight of something. Weight can be a good thing so it does not bend or break, or can be bad if its over built and your lugging around a lot of weight, using more power etc. Working as a welder I have done lots of repairs where a machine was built heavy but not the proper welding done. Basically the welds were too small for the size of the metal and would tend to break along the side of the weld. Looking at the machine at a distance people would say wow that is a well built machine, but sometimes they were not. A lot of well designed things are not all that heavy but are strong. Look at a beam with holes in it. Sometimes these can be stronger than a solid beam because they wont sag under there own weight. What is important is to have the weight where it is needed or have it braced where needed.


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## mike10

To echo hog987's comment, If weight was the only way to gain strength then an airplane would never get off the ground.


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## discbinedr

Grateful11 said:


> Our local NH dealer moves quite a few 450 balers. I asked him if he had had many complaints. He said the first few he sold had some problems but the ones he had sold this past year he had almost nothing out of. We've known the guy for a long time but he's still a dealer looking to sell so you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. Like some have said they are a bit light but no lighter than our JD 448 and it never misses a beat, knock on wood. The shipping weight on a JD 449 3360#. Weight on a basic NH 450 with no options is 3300#, so add a couple things and it's probably heavier than a 449. As I've said before my beef with the Vermeer Rebel is no bale shape indicators, if they would add that to their Rebel balers and it would be a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. A fully optioned Rebel 5420, weighs 4700#, there's some beef there somewhere.


Comparing a NH 450U to a Deere 449 is comparing apples to oranges. The Deere is a 4X4 and the 450 is a 4X5.


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## hog987

mike10 said:


> To echo hog987's comment, If weight was the only way to gain strength then an airplane would never get off the ground.


I was thinking about saying that about airplanes and also race cars.


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## deadmoose

Does anybody have experience with newer Massey hesstons?


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## Lewis Ranch

I've never ran one nor seen one up close, but a neighbor bought one and it makes some of the nicest string tied rolls I have ever seen. I did buy 100 rolls from a guy that uses one with net wrap and they are good solid bales.


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## Hokelund Farm

8350HiTech said:


> Preface: I am not trying to pick on anyone.
> 
> Let's list the facts here.
> If you'll now be doing the baling, you're supplying fuel, net, and labor. (The labor to bale is also an opportunity cost in that you can't be hauling bales off the field as you could be if someone else is baling for you.)
> You now own a baler. You have to maintain it, store it, just plain understand it. You're also 15k poorer.
> For this "investment" of money, labor, and opportunity cost you ...
> 
> Get $15 LESS PER BALE compared to hiring the 3x3 guy. I know you say getting them to your farm is like pulling teeth, but it sounds like you could risk a few root canals.
> 
> I guess you could buy an especially cheap round baler for the days that you absolutely can't get another baler to show up, but every time you take a round baler to the field with your local pricing, you're losing money.
> 
> Pick anyone from a business other than farming and they would laugh at owning your own equipment for this.
> 
> Again, this is just my interpretation of the facts. Rant over.


Completely agree! I own a small fitness business, work full time at a pork company, and slowly getting into farming. I don't think you will be happy unless the 15K is just extra sitting around. If thats the case go for it. Otherwise hire it out or buy a reliable used baler. We have an old NH 853 that we use. I think we paid $1500 for it. You can get a nice used baler with wrap and so on for $5000.


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## Grateful11

Hokelund Farm said:


> Completely agree! I own a small fitness business, work full time at a pork company, and slowly getting into farming. I don't think you will be happy unless the 15K is just extra sitting around. If thats the case go for it. Otherwise hire it out or buy a reliable used baler. We have an old NH 853 that we use. I think we paid $1500 for it. You can get a nice used baler with wrap and so on for $5000.


There's no nice round balers around here with netwrap for $5000 not even the ones with 20,000+ bales on them.


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