# Educate me on planters



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Going to be planting corn this coming year for the first time so I'm going to be in the market for a nice used planter. Besides corn I can also see myself planting milo in the near future and may even end up planting as much or more milo than corn. Most likely will continue planting beans with a drill to stay with narrower rows.

I don't know much of anything about a planter so I need some help and guidance on what to look for. I am familiar with a drill but a planter seems to be much more complicated. I have been doing some research on planters and looking through sales literature and it appears to me there are a lot of different ways a planter can be equipped and I'm not sure what options will be best for my situation. I have also talked to the JD salesman about how I would need it equipped but I also wanted to get some opinions from someone that isn't trying to sell me something. He suggested a 1750 planter. Unless another brand has a considerably better planter I will most likely buy a JD because dealer support is far and above other brands for row crop equipment.

It has been suggested than I buy a vacuum planter rather than finger pickup. I was told finger pickup is still very good for corn but a vacuum planter is better in other crops than a finger pickup. Are unit mounted or frame mounted coulters better? Most of my soils are a gravely clay with a lot of rocks which gets very hard when dry and sticky when wet. Dry vs liquid fertilize? What all other options would I want?

Also how important is it to have a planter that matches the size of your corn head? Planning on upsizing my combine this year or maybe next depending on how harvest turns out this year so that will be a consideration.

Hayden


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

If I wasn't going to be planting but a few hundred acres or less I would get used....John Deere are very good and so is Kinze....type depends on width and how much roading you do. Rigid frame, Front Fold, Wing Fold...etc.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> If I wasn't going to be planting but a few hundred acres or less I would get used....John Deere are very good and so is Kinze....type depends on width and how much roading you do. Rigid frame, Front Fold, Wing Fold...etc.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 Yeah, will be buying used for sure. Looking for something fairly recent and nice though.....thinking something made within the last 10-15 years. Won't be planting a whole lot of acres at first but don't mind spending a little more to get something nice that I will keep for the long run. Will be doing a lot of road travel between fields.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Kinze's and Deeres to a certain point are pretty light planters, okay if your only planting tilled ground, may have to add weight if you want to try no-till at any time in the future.

Have always ran White planters here, good heavy construction so no additional weight needed to no-till into the toughest conditions. Used to run the White deep placement fertilizer coulters, worked great but pulled like a boat anchor. Used to run row cleaners on the no-till coulters, have since gone to Martin floating row cleaners and a unit mounted fertilizer coulter, works okay, will be going back to a frame mounted fertilizer coulter on the next planter, the next planter will absolutely have the furrow cruizers for closing wheels. Running a White 16 row forward fold now. Next one will still be a forward fold but the newer style where 4 or 6 rows stay on back and the rest fold forward, old style forward fold planters only have one hinge point, so its like running two ridgid frame 8 rows next to one another, sometimes the middle is too shallow or plowing dirt. Newer style has two hinge points so like running a 6 row in the middle and a five row to either side.

You most likely won't need a folding planter at all if you stick to a 6 row, depends on your roads though. Here when we ridge tilled the ridge cleaner didn't fold so no point in trying to fold the planter, just take all 20+ foot down the road, also had a non folding great plains 20' no-till drill, never had a field we couldn't get to, just might have to take a longer route to avoid any narrow bridges.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Unless you can find a Kinze with push units, isn't 30" rows a tad wide for Milo/sorghum? We always used to plant it with our Hiniker set on 15" rows.


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## youngbaler (Apr 9, 2015)

We run old Deere planter units updated with precision e sets on wil rich front fold bars, 2 planters, 24 row 22".. Love our set up... Plants with the accuracy of a brand new planter with 25 year old units. The first unit my dad built from the ground up for about 55k.... (Bar cost 45k). All new at the time was over 120k. Last year we picked up an identical one for 15k and put on the e sets.

I really recommend a vacuum planter and e sets (150 per row). With the e sets no need to worry about corn seed size. Also plants small seeds well.

You can get a lot of planter for your money by buying a 25 year old worn out for cheap and rebuilding it with shoup parts.

I used to work for a cousin with a white center fill. Loved the center fill but didn't care for the seed metering system.

Around my area ten to one John Deere out numbers all other brands of planters. Dad had really red underwear but only had one red planter for about 6 months...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Lots of updated JD 7000 series used to no-till with in this region. Not a problem here....can't imagine it being a problem in flatter land.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Vol said:


> Lots of updated JD 7000 series used to no-till with in this region. Not a problem here....can't imagine it being a problem in flatter land.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Any pretty much every part on those is available aftermarket because Pequea is building brand new clones of them.


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

Around here there are a lot of 7000 and 7200 series Deere doing a great job in notil. I have a 7000 with the row mounted coulters and floating row cleaners. I run dry fertilizer and precision meters. Does a great job. The only thing where the 7000 falls short is the marker setup. I have trouble seeing my mark when planting in green sod.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Kinze's and Deeres to a certain point are pretty light planters, okay if your only planting tilled ground, may have to add weight if you want to try no-till at any time in the future.
> Have always ran White planters here, good heavy construction so no additional weight needed to no-till into the toughest conditions. Used to run the White deep placement fertilizer coulters, worked great but pulled like a boat anchor. Used to run row cleaners on the no-till coulters, have since gone to Martin floating row cleaners and a unit mounted fertilizer coulter, works okay, will be going back to a frame mounted fertilizer coulter on the next planter, the next planter will absolutely have the furrow cruizers for closing wheels. Running a White 16 row forward fold now. Next one will still be a forward fold but the newer style where 4 or 6 rows stay on back and the rest fold forward, old style forward fold planters only have one hinge point, so its like running two ridgid frame 8 rows next to one another, sometimes the middle is too shallow or plowing dirt. Newer style has two hinge points so like running a 6 row in the middle and a five row to either side.
> You most likely won't need a folding planter at all if you stick to a 6 row, depends on your roads though. Here when we ridge tilled the ridge cleaner didn't fold so no point in trying to fold the planter, just take all 20+ foot down the road, also had a non folding great plains 20' no-till drill, never had a field we couldn't get to, just might have to take a longer route to avoid any narrow bridges.


 I will be pretty much 100% no till. Most of which for the corn will be into alfalfa sod and the milo into small grain stubble. According to my JD dealer he said he never sells a planter without frame mounted coulters......said the few that wanted to try unit mounted were not pleased. On the other hand though a different dealer said unit mounted were just as good......but he had a used planter with unit mounted on the lot I think he was trying to interest me in. Unfortunately White planters don't have a presence in this area so I'm a little hesitant to buy one since I know any part I might need would be a special order and the Agco dealer wouldn't be of much help since they don't support planters or combines......only tractors and hay equipment.

Was kind of thinking either a 6 or 8 row planting but not fully sure. For now a 6 row would be plenty but I had my eye on a combine that comes with a 8 row head and I'm not sure if that would be a good combo. As far as transport width anything over 13 foot is a headache trying to get down the road here.....I'm kind of in a populated residential/business area with lots of traffic and narrow roads. I guess a 6 row would be about 15 foot so I might could squeeze that down the road but would really have to watch it. Anything wider than a 6 row would have to fold for sure.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Unless you can find a Kinze with push units, isn't 30" rows a tad wide for Milo/sorghum? We always used to plant it with our Hiniker set on 15" rows.


 I think 15 inches is probably a little better for milo but I was told that 30 would about as good and would be better than trying to plant milo with a grain drill with every other cup taped off like I was going to try this year.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

All of the "old" deepest up to I think the 1770nt only fold up to 15' because they have 6 rows across the back. 1770 folds down to 4 rows. Any Deere 7000 or newer can be completely refurbished from the shoup catalog and made to plant like new. My no till set up is Martin row cleaners and spiked closing wheels on a 7000. I read once from a no till guru and am a firm believer that no till coulters should be adjusted to run about 6" above the ground-- or just removed completely. I took mine off 4 years ago, best thing I ever did to a planter.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> All of the "old" deepest up to I think the 1770nt only fold up to 15' because they have 6 rows across the back. 1770 folds down to 4 rows. Any Deere 7000 or newer can be completely refurbished from the shoup catalog and made to plant like new. My no till set up is Martin row cleaners and spiked closing wheels on a 7000. I read once from a no till guru and am a firm believer that no till coulters should be adjusted to run about 6" above the ground-- or just removed completely. I took mine off 4 years ago, best thing I ever did to a planter.


 That's very interesting not using coulters at all. What benefits have you seen from not using coulters? I would be concerned that with my hard, rocky soil that the openers would not penetrate without coulters.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

haybaler101 said:


> I read once from a no till guru and am a firm believer that no till coulters should be adjusted to run about 6" above the ground-- or just removed completely. I took mine off 4 years ago, best thing I ever did to a planter.


Would only agree with that if we weren't doing cover crops.

The last couple of years we've had a heavy enough cover crop that unit mounted row cleaners aren't cutting it, they tend to plug with rye or even any rape that overwinters.

With our old no till coulters with the row cleaners the coulter would have cut the plant/residue in half allowing each wheel to move it away from the center, without the cutting action they don't clean as well or even tend to wrap up and plug.

With our old setup we've planted into three foot of standing hay with zero issues.

We also tend to have rocks, with unit mounted fertilizer coulters it tends to bounce the units around more effecting seeding accuracy.

Next planter will have frame mounted deep placement fertilizer coulters and frame mounted no-till coulters with row cleaners and most likely air pressure download.

If you get a chance do give the Furrow Cruisers a shot, fantastic closing wheel even in worked ground.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Far as color, dealers make a world of difference. Our Agco dealer in the area is Plevna Implement, when they were only in Kokomo they were the nations largest seller of White planters, now that they've moved into our area MF combines and White Planters are starting to

outnumber other color planters and combines. It's all about having a knowledgable dealer to set em up right and educate the user.

Kinda funny as well, I think Heston/MF big square balers are starting to take a serious bite out of the NH BB market share in the area, always see at least a few used NH BB balers on the Agco lot for sale. Have decided if I ever go the big square route it will be a Heston/MF.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I also took my coulters off last year....never hard enough to hold my 7000 back.

Regards, Mike


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

The "tru-eve" openers will slice thru more than any no till coulter. Coulters pinch residue into seed trench, especially if camp or wet. Also, I almost always plant into ground that is closer to too wet than too dry and coulters tend to pull up mud making closing more difficult and tilled wet clay becomes gravel when it dries out. I use cover crops but have had no problem with row cleaners, but I try to kill cover crops a couple weeks before planting.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

We run Yetter Sharktooth floating row cleaners in no-till. Love them. Precision Plantings Cleansweep is almost a necessity though.

Hayden, as far as planters, if you're not gonna plant hundreds of acres, buy a finger pickup JD 7000. Plants any size corn accurately with not much trouble.

We run White and are very happy with it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We try to kill the cover crop at least a few weeks before planting, however with the warm fall last year and a early spring this year some of it got over 3+ foot tall, we weren't the only ones having trouble with keeping proper seed depth, seen several green planters sitting as well while some form of tillage was being done ahead of them. When the rain finally quit the the sun came out and the wind blew, a lot of hilltops turned into cement.

I'm still a firm believer in going back to frame mounted fertilizer openers, let the row unit actually place the seed like it was intended for.

We have a guy in the area that routinely plants into 3 foot tall rye, has added a ton of sheetmetal shields to his planter to keep the stuff from wrapping around bearings, driveshafts and chains. Would need to see what he's running for row cleaners, the Martin floating row cleaners didn't like that tall stuff, spent more time cleaning stuff out of em than planting.

I take it the Tru V is one seed opener disc slight ahead of the other?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Tru-Vee is Deeres name for standard disc openers that JD, Kinze, and White use.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I'd look for a used planter with all the attachments you need on it.Attachments can run into alot of $ if you add them but on a used the dealer doesn't give to much credit for it.

I don't run no till or cover crops but have the fixed Sharktooth trash wippers and they stay clean alot better then the dawn spike tooth cleaners on previous planter.I've had the spike tooth type clog up in trash alot and the curved type shark tooths never have plugged.

I run a White planter also and as far as parts go I keep a few bearings on hand and a seed sensor and it's not that big a deal to have a dealer close.

Now on the other hand I had a White with a Black Machine bar and no one had a spring on hand for the black machine parts on the planter.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

FarmerCline said:


> Also how important is it to have a planter that matches the size of your corn head? Planning on upsizing my combine this year or maybe next depending on how harvest turns out this year so that will be a consideration.
> 
> Hayden


I use to grow corn (small time, 300-400 acres), planted with a 4 row, combined with a 3 row. I did almost 100% of the planting. I would only allow the hired help do the straight stuff AFTER I started the field (if field was fairly level). If you learn the drift of the planter, corn head / planter match isn't important, it can be done. IMHO If I was just starting again, I wouldn't worry about matching (planter / head), until I could cash flow matched pair (if you could put a 6 row head on the combine and drive fast enough to operate it efficiently?).

Note: on my small acreage, corn yields weren't what they are today, my 25K bushel bin couldn't hold a normal year's crop. But then again I normally had some forward contracts to fill first and did not have the need to store the whole crop (plus cash flow needs for some reason). Heck, I think with today's combines, they hold almost what my batch dryer had for capacity (just shy of 500 bushels). Why did I quit growing corn? Oh, yah, $2.47 bushel my cost to raise, and selling for $2.30, I didn't think was so smart anymore.

Larry


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

stack em up said:


> We run Yetter Sharktooth floating row cleaners in no-till. Love them. Precision Plantings Cleansweep is almost a necessity though.
> Hayden, as far as planters, if you're not gonna plant hundreds of acres, buy a finger pickup JD 7000. Plants any size corn accurately with not much trouble.
> We run White and are very happy with it.


 Just curious why you suggest a finger pickup over a vacuum? Was leaning towards a vacuum but still would like to hear what the benefits/drawbacks to each are. How well will the finger pickup plant milo? I think the JD dealer said that Vacuum was available on 7200 and newer planters but not the 7000.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

stack em up said:


> Tru-Vee is Deeres name for standard disc openers that JD, Kinze, and White use.


Gotcha, had new seed disc openers on this year as well.

So Tru-Vee is kinda like Deeres revolutionary STS rotary combine that White basically had decades before?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

When we were row cropping we used a 7100 Deere (3 point mounted planter). Same thing as a 7000 pull-type drawn planter. Ours had been a peanut planter (which use weird plates to plant peanuts) and converted it to Kinze brush meters. The Kinze brush meters will plant cotton, milo/grain sorghum, and soybeans just like a sewing machine... NO complaints whatsoever about the spacing and stand! You'd have to use finger pickups to plant corn, but it's like two wingnuts to switch between finger pickups and Kinze brush meters, so easy to switch out between crops. The BIL and his son in law are still using finger pickups on their corn planters here in Indiana. NOTHING whatsoever wrong with a finger pickup as long as it's in good shape. Of course planting corn you really want to keep the ground speed down around 5 mph, and usually no more than 5.5 mph. Finger pickups start skipping above 6 mph and the population curve drops off the faster you go. At 5 to 5.5 mph a finger pickup in sound mechanical condition will singulate and plant just fine though. We planted soybeans at 130,000 pop and cotton at 65,000, with milo at 80,000 pop, and the Kinze brush meters planted it all like a sewing machine. Never wore out a set of brushes in them. Just stick the plate in, tighten the wingnuts, and go plant. Couldn't be simpler!

Now, there's a lot of hoo-ha about vac planters... I guess they serve a purpose, some guys just love 'em. The BIL traded in his old 12 row 7100 units-on-a-Shoup-folding-bar planter for a 1780 12/23 split row 15/30 inch spacing vac planter a couple years ago. He likes it, especially the seed savings and MUCH better placement and accuracy than the IH 5400 drill on a coulter cart it replaced for planting beans, BUT, it's a lot more "finicky" than a Kinze brush meter setup. We have to go through the vacuum meters with a fine tooth comb, replace seals and wipers as needed, especially if a mouse happens to chew on the seals during the winter, inspect hoses, clean it out religiously, etc. before planting. With the Kinze brush meters, it was slide the seed disk in over the hub, tighten two wing nuts down, dump the seed in, and go plant. With the vac meters, you have to dial in the vacuum when you get to the field as well and keep an eye on it, and he's had rows up and quit planting or seriously under population and had to replace a seed disk or seal here and there during planting. Again, with the Kinze brush meters, it was just "keep seed in the box" and go plant, no muss, no fuss, and it planted it just as accurately as the vac meters. The only REAL advantage to vac meters is the ability to simply swap disks between corn and soybeans or milo or cotton or anything else... the corn rows (every other row) on the 12/23 row planter DOES have "singulators" that are mounted on springs and ride against the seed disk to knock off doubles as it turns when planting corn-- one more thing to adjust and make sure is working correctly. Honestly, though, it's not really any more difficult to swap out finger pickups for brush meters to switch between beans/milo and corn, or swapping out seed disks... The BIL uses his 12/23 Deere 1780 ONLY to plant soybeans with both rows of planter units down on a 15 inch spacing... he uses his son in law's 7200 16 row corn planter with finger pickup meters to plant corn.

One thing you DON'T want is those stupid "bean cups" or "milo cups" that Deere uses as standard equipment to swap out with finger pickups on their older planters... those things are just a crappy drill-type meter that basically "spew" seeds with no singulation or spacing accuracy. You can get Kinze brush meters, which are a direct replacement and completely interchangeable with the Deere finger pickups (in fact on most of the older planters before the last two series, almost all the Deere and Kinze parts are interchangeable between the two-- in fact Kinze planters used to be built by Deere til he had a falling out with Deere and started cloning the Deere units back in the late 70's, when they were 100% copies of the old Deere 7100 row units). The Kinze brush meters will plant beans, grain sorghum, and cotton just like a sewing machine. I've toured the Kinze factory and seen where they build their finger pickups, and the Kinze finger meters are really excellent and "zeroed in" at the factory, from all pre-approved parts and run in on a test stand.

As for row spacing, I guess it depends on your area, but 30-40 inch row beans are all we see in our area of Texas. Up here in Indiana, there's still a fair number of guys planting 30 inch row beans up here. The BIL did that until about 8-10 years ago when he got a 5400 IH drill on a coulter cart and quit row-planting his beans in favor of drilling them. He switched to the 1780 Deere planter a couple years ago because the seed savings and improved accuracy and emergence of a planter over a drill was just too good to pass up, plus the fact that the 12/23 row 15 inch planter is covering 30 feet of ground in a pass, versus 15 feet with the drill/coulter cart combo... IMHO I WOULD NOT plant sorghum on less than about a 20 inch row, at the narrowest. Depending on your area and soils and weather/rainfall patterns, 15's MIGHT work... but I've seen a LOT of grain sorghum drilled on 7.5 inch rows that just flat never headed out in dry weather, or you could tell right where the dry ground separated from the wet ground, because the wetter part of the field would have grain heads and the drier part would be blank as could be, no heads at all... IMHO, from what I'VE personally witnessed around the country, I wouldn't be in any rush to plant sorghum narrower than 30's, maybe 15's if hot dry weather isn't a big problem... (ie up north-- they can get dry up here but their "hot" weather is just nice-n-warm for us guys down south!)

As for row matching in corn between the header and the planter-- well, "best practice" would have you use the same width planter as header, or multiple of the header width on the planter... like a 6 row head with a 6 or 12 row planter, or an 8 or 16 row planter with an 8 row head, or a 12 row planter with a 4 row head, etc. BUT, there's a lot of guys who have successfully run mismatched heads and planters without too much problem-- running a 16 row planter with a 6 row head means you run the wide middle down the center of the head every third pass, stuff like that. It all depends on how accurate your row spacing is and how well you hold to it without narrowing up or widening the middle out between planter passes. If you can keep it fairly close, the stalks will usually bend over enough for it not to be a problem. If you plant where it's 20 inches between outside rows on one end and 40 inches on the other end, you'll have a lot more problems. If the stalks are weak or blown over or whatever, you'll have a lot more problems... so if that's a common occurrence in your area, it's something you might want to think about more...

Anyway, that's my experience. Can't really speak to the no-till stuff because that is SO soil and condition specific that I would really want to talk to your neighbors in the area in similar soils and conditions and see what works for them and what doesn't... Soil, climate, and practices vary SO much and have such an impact on how well "A" or "B" works that I'd REALLY want LOCAL experience on that decision rather than generalized advice from the other end of the country in different conditions which might or might not be applicable...

Later and best of luck! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> Just curious why you suggest a finger pickup over a vacuum? Was leaning towards a vacuum but still would like to hear what the benefits/drawbacks to each are. How well will the finger pickup plant milo? I think the JD dealer said that Vacuum was available on 7200 and newer planters but not the 7000.


A finger pickup will not plant milo... you need either the Deere "feedcups" (which are absolute garbage) or Kinze brush meters to bolt onto your hoppers in place of the finger pickup meters for planting sorghum.

The finger meters bolt onto the bottom of the hopper with 2-3 small bolts. To swap between planting corn and planting other crops, you unlatch the hopper, (on the 7100's you have to release the planter drive coupler first with the side panel handle-- the 7200's on up us a 'flipper' meter drive that automatically couples and uncouples when you lift the hopper off the unit) lift the hopper up, and usually it's a pair of small nuts or thumb screws that you undo to remove the finger pickup from the bottom of the hopper. Then you just slide a Kinze brush meter (or the crappy little Deere feedcups) back up in their place, and put the thumbscrews back in, drop the hopper back down onto the unit, latch the back clip to hold it down, and on the 7100's, release the drive coupler catch from the side panel (the 7200's on just automatically recouple with the little spring-loaded flipper arms to the drive sprocket). It really doesn't take any longer to switch between finger pickups and brush meters (or feedcups) than it does to swap between seed disks in a vacuum meter, since the procedure is basically the same to swap seed disks... Yeah, the vac meters use a "twist lock" deal to hold the seed disks onto the meter hub, but that doesn't really save much time, and if you use the vacuum planter to also plant milo/beans, you have to reset the singulators or move them out of the way anyway when switching between corn and other crops anyway, so there went any time savings...

You can get Kinze meters pretty cheap at various places online. I got mine for like $30 bucks a row about 20 years ago, used, from a guy in the Midwest. Shoup and other places sell them new, but they're SO simple that basically a used unit is as good as new... The only moving part is the bearing hub, the brushes are easily removed and replaced when worn out (which I never wore a set out in the years I planted cotton, milo, and soybeans with mine) and the seed disks are available for whatever crop you want to plant (soybeans, milo, cotton, etc). Like I said, easy to swap for the finger pickups (which you need to plant corn) and the brush meters will plant cotton, beans, and milo like a sewing machine...

Even if I bought a used Deere planter with finger pickups, I'd buy a set of used Kinze brush meters for it, even if the planter came with the Deere "feedcups" for it... the feedcups are just junk, they spew seed out like a crappy drill meter, so NO singulation or accuracy in placement/spacing. Deere should have been ashamed to even sell those stupid feedcups, but it was the ONLY way to make a finger-pickup-equipped planter with the vertical finger meter able to plant other crops than corn-- finger pickups ONLY work with corn and sunflower seeds-- they cannot meter cotton or grain sorghum or soybean seed, not at the rates those crops are planted at, anyway. When the 7100's and finger pickups first came out, your basic two choices for meters were vertical finger pickups and horizontal flat plate-type planters (which our 7100 had because it used peanut planting "domed plates" running flat in the bottom of the hoppers). There was NO CONTEST between the spacing and accuracy of finger pickups versus flat plates (which of course required matching the plates to the graded corn seed, either large, medium, or small seed in either flats or rounds, depending on your preferences) when planting corn, so the finger pickups quickly became THE choice to have for planting corn, but guys wanted a planter that would plant BOTH corn AND beans or cotton or milo, ESPECIALLY down south... since milo and soybeans are both planted at high rates, and cotton was planted at a fairly high rate, and none of those crops are anywhere near as sensitive to spacing and population accuracy as corn is, the "feedcups" were a viable, if crappy, solution... Later Kinze came out with the brush meter, which turned the old flat seed plate up on its side and used brushes to retain the seed in the pockets, almost like what a vacuum meter does, only using brushes to hold the seeds in the pocket instead of vacuum, so it was a DIRECT REPLACEMENT for the feedcups and completely interchangeable with the finger pickups as well-- so now one could switch between finger pickups for planting corn, and brush meters for planting sorghum, soybeans, and cotton, and plant ALL those crops with sewing-machine accurate spacing... FAR superior to the seed spewing Deere feedcups.

Deere later copied the Kinze brush meter, coming out with their own brush meter design, but it used weird cupped seed disks and a different housing, different enough to keep from being sued for copying Kinze's design. I've looked at the Deere brush meters and Kinze beats them hands-down... unfortunately, brush meters cannot deliver the accuracy and singulation necessary for corn, so finger pickups are required to plant corn; they work hand-in-glove with brush meters planting other crops than corn on planters with finger pickup meters...

Basically, here's your choice in meters...

CORN-- Finger pickup meters, vacuum, and air (pressurized)

MILO-- brush meters, vacuum, and air (pressurized)

SOYBEANS-- brush meters, vacuum, and pressurized air

COTTON-- brush meters, vacuum, and pressurized air

** I didn't list plates because while they WILL plant ALL those crops, plate planters are practically extinct because finger pickups blow them away in corn (so-called "plateless seed") for spacing and accuracy, and of course I've already emphasized how sucky those feedcup "meters" are...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> Just curious why you suggest a finger pickup over a vacuum? Was leaning towards a vacuum but still would like to hear what the benefits/drawbacks to each are. How well will the finger pickup plant milo? I think the JD dealer said that Vacuum was available on 7200 and newer planters but not the 7000.


One other issue with vacuum, and it's a BIGGIE...

YOU *MUST* ensure that the tractor you're planning to pull the planter with has SUFFICIENT hydraulic pump capacity to operate the planter vacuum blower orbit motors WHILE ALSO raising and lowering the planter and markers... This can make or break your options right out of the starting gate...

The guy my BIL bought his 12/23 Deere 1780 planter from sold it because his Case Magnum didn't have enough hydraulic flow to keep the blowers operating UNINTERRUPTED while he lifted and turned the planter... the blower motors would stop or slow down enough during the planter lift that the seed dropped off the disks, and when he lowered the planter back down to start planting the next pass, it would take about 4/5 of a revolution of the seed disk before it started planting again... It had to pick seed up from the bottom of the hopper and carry it all the way around to the vacuum cutoff point above the seed tube before it would start planting again. He tried a lot of different adjustments and stuff and didn't have much luck, so finally he just started backing up and dropping the planter about 30 feet out over the end rows and started planting, and would either get a little overlap or a little gap before it started dropping seed again after the turn...

Basically it takes about 30 gallons a minute flow to ensure that the hydraulic blower motors operate continuously through the lift and turn cycle without stopping or slowing enough to drop the seed off the disk. It took some adjustment of the hydraulic system to get it to turn without dropping the vacuum on the son in laws Deere 4850 tractor, and a LOT of tinkering with the priority valves and "turtle/rabbit" valves on the remotes to get it to work with the Case 2390 without dropping the seed off the disks during the lift and turn...

IOW, unless you have a LATE MODEL tractor with a shit-ton of hydraulic flow, I wouldn't even consider a vacuum planter...

Later! OL J R


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Just now getting back to this thread....been busy past couple days. Luke, thanks for all the info.....was a lot to read and took me a while to digest it all but was a lot of good info for someone like myself who is unfamiliar with planters. I had no idea that the finger pickup only planted corn and would have to be swapped out for a different meter for milo and other crops. Sounds like it's easy enough to swap though and sounds like the brush meter will do a good job. With the brush meter are there different sizes of plates depending on what crop you are planting like on the vacuum planter?

I'm running a Bale Bandit so the hydraulics for a vacuum planter shouldn't be a problem. Running a JD 7510 and 6420 which both have 25gpm or a little more of hydraulic flow so I should be good there if I were to get a vacuum planter.

At this point I think I'm just going to keep my eye open for either a vacuum planter or a finger pickup which I can get brush meters for and just buy which ever type of planter ends up being the best purchase for its condition and price since it sounds like both are good and will work well.

Now I just have to figure out what all other options/parts I need on the planter for it to preform well in my ground. Unfortunately I don't know anyone local that I can get advise from as most around here don't like to give advise to someone new starting out that may be competition on renting ground. I do have a friend that planted some corn this year but he hired it done. About the best I can do for local advise is to talk to the dealers and see what most guys are buying/using.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Take this advise with a grain of salt as I am not a planter expert. You won't go wrong on a Deere 7000. They are simple and operating knowledge is universal. That being said, if you are planning to no till, I would at least look at the CIH 900/950/955. It seems like the guys that took the time to learn these less common machines really like them. They are affordable, row units are are a little more robust than Deere I'm told, and every one says they work well with no till. Just my $.02.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I think there was a few 8x30 planters converted to manual front fold with a machine shop conversion around here.Might be idea for your narrow roads out east.Probably be like finding a need le in a haystack though.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> I think there was a few 8x30 planters converted to manual front fold with a machine shop conversion around here.Might be idea for your narrow roads out east.Probably be like finding a need le in a haystack though.


Kelderman made the kit to do it. I believe Shoup has/had a kit to convert rigid to folding as well.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Drive around during planting time and see what guys are using... what sort of attachments and stuff... Talk to some dealers, but take what they say with a grain of salt-- they're in it for the money and not past telling you what they want you to hear to make a sale on what they have.

The Deere 7000 series is an excellent planter. Kinze planters are identical-- at least they were until fairly recently (last decade maybe). Most parts still interchange. About the only advantage to the IH 800/900 series early risers is the overlapping/offset opener blades. They have a weird gauge wheel arm arrangement, putting it in front, which they really trumpet as being all that and a bag of chips, but it was more about avoiding patent infringement lawsuits than anything IMHO. IH's first air planter (the Cyclo's) still used the old sword-n-press-wheel arrangement for opening and closing the seed trench! Basically, everybody copied Deere's ground engaging equipment design, more or less (and yeah, Deere bought the patents off someone else and copied it, maybe Oliver IIRC?) The IH is a decent planter, and maybe has SOME advantage in no-till, I don't know, because NOBODY no-tills in our part of the country... I know up in Indiana where I help my BIL on his corn/bean farm, where there IS a lot of no-till and limited till, you still see Deere planters outnumbering everything else by about 10:1... so that says something. Parts for the Deeres are easy to come by too, from places like Shoup. BTW, if someone tries to sell you an IH Cyclo planter, RUN, DON'T WALK away!!!

Here's some pics I nabbed off the web of the Kinze brush meters and disks... there's different disks available for soybeans, cotton, and grain sorghum. 90% of the time three disks were all that was necessary-- the 60 cell black plates for soybeans, the 60 cell red plates for sorghum/milo, and the 48 cell turquoise plates for cotton. They make different plates with different seed pocket sizes to better fit and singulate different size seeds and to accommodate the different seed shapes and sizes between soybean, cotton, and milo/sorghum seed, and different numbers of pockets to give better planting population ranges depending on your conditions. IMHO always use the plate with the highest number of pockets-- that way you set the planter transmission to turn the plate slower for a given population, which increases singulation accuracy.

Anyway, for what you're doing, I'd be looking for a 7000 planter in good shape with finger pickups, and then I'd get me a set of used brush meters in good condition for planting milo. That would do a fine job and wouldn't break the bank.

Later and good luck! OL J R


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