# Gullies, what to do?



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Well we went from not even having an inch of rain from early October until ten days ago and since then have had six and one half inches with three and one half inches last night. I went out and checked my fields today and I have gullies. I worked the ground back in October and drilled oats on this one field but due to the dry weather they were still small and had not grown enough to hold the ground. The field has a gully about a foot to a foot and a half deep and three feet wide all the way across it and still had water coming through it like a mountain stream. The other field was planted to Timothy and orchard grass in October but did not germinate because of the drought I was waiting till spring to give it a chance to come up before I replanted but it looks like I will have to replant now for sure. It has a few small gullies about six inches deep and a foot wide. My question is what should I do now. I will more than likely just rework the ground and replant orchard grass in the one field but I really do not want to tear up my oats in the other field because I have a pretty good stand. How would I go about fixing the lager gully and should I wait till after harvest next summer? Also how do I prevent this from happening in the future because losing all of that soil really bothers me. Thanks.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Sorry to hear of your misfortune Cline....I had the very same thing happen in a fall planted field several years ago about this time of year....had a good stand of grass, but too much rain. I used a 6 foot roto-tiller to repair the gullies. On the large one you will need to start out by dropping 2 wheels into the gully and run the length of it on both sides then work the middle. The smaller gullys could probably just be straddled. Your in a catch 22 situation whether to do it now or wait about 2 months. The big one I would seriously consider repairing now....work it down..roll it..seed heavily.. and STRAW heavily. The smaller ones may be OK to wait till early spring if you do not continue to receive alot of rain. Or you might just go ahead and repair them while at it. (OR you could just till/repair the larger gully, roll and straw heavily and come back the first of March or a little before or after when you can catch it dry and retill and roll and SOW heavily this time.)

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Here's a couple of options you might think about:

1) A number of guys hereabouts have gone to planting turnips or radishes as a winter cover crop. I personally haven't tried them, but I can see their point: The large leaves helps slow down erosion and the root "aerate" the ground. They grow fast in the fall from what I've seen. You might put some out without working up the ground to slow things down over the winter, then reseed this spring.

2) I use scrap round bales (where the quality is really something I want to sell) and build drydams in ditches where erosion is occurring. They catch the water and slow it down enough to be effective, then they can be removed in the spring after the rest of the stand is going strong. On one ditch, I have 5 sets of 1-3 bales over about 400 feet to catch the water.

3) Around here, I wouldn't work up any ground at this time of year because I wouldn't be able to get anything started on it and loose ground tends to want to wash faster, thus compounding the problem.

5) Whatever you do, make sure that you pack it firmly.

Hope this helps, and let us know what you decide to do.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You might even want to consider hauling some top soil in to repair the gullies. If you work them shut you've effectively lowered the ground some more and could make the next time even worse. I've repaired gullies in a standing hay crop by hauling top soil in, then using a box scraper on the back of my loader to fill the gully. Run the tires of the tractor down the gully several times to help pack it in.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

If it were me, I would turn the gully into a waterway. Do like others have said, put some hay bales in it to slow the water down. I'm sure the soil is now washed down to the hard pan. I would go in and scratch it up a little with the goal of trying to smooth the whole thing out. Don't work it deep in the hard pan. The next heavy rain could make it worse although the hay would help alot. Plant some annual ryegrass or something quick to establish (tough this time of year).

Then in the Spring, plant a permanent grass and get the waterway established. Or, put some hay in it now and let it sit as is until the Spring to start working on it.

Here is south side Va, I absolutely love bermuda grass waterways. I will spend a year getting a waterway established. Then over the next couple of years build terraces dumping into the waterway. Contact the S & W district manager and get their opinion. Here, there is cost share money available for this.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We have several waterways as well, even when not in a hay field I prefer to replace what was washed away. We have quite the stockpile of spoils from cleaning ditches in wet lands as the spoils need hauled out. The state and county also hauls us dirt when they are cleaning local ditches. WE never have a problem getting rid of topsoil that we don't need for the odd gully repair.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. I think what I may do is work the large gully down as soon as it is dry enough and I have some left over wheat seed I could sow and some red clover hay that I baled to too green I could use as straw. I am thinking that wheat would have the best chance of germinating quickly this time of year. The only thing was that I was planning on combining the oats off of this field and I do not know how the wheat would effect that. I will also stack some bales where the gully is until the wheat get going. I may leave the small gullies until spring as I am probably going to have to replant that field anyways and for the time being stack some bales in it to keep it from washing more. I would love to be able to haul topsoil in to fill the gully but since I do not own the land I do not want to spend that kind of money. The only problem with a waterway is that it is a small 2 acre narrow and long field and the waterway would just about take up the whole field. Can you make hay off a grass waterway if it is large enough?I feel that if the field was no tilled it would not have washed but I am going to have to work the ground until I get the ph raised and the ground smoothed out a bit. Thanks.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We've not had near the repairs on waterways or had new gullies since going to no-till.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

mlappin said:


> We've not had near the repairs on waterways or had new gullies since going to no-till.


Same here.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Mlappin, I agree 100 percent with what you said but around here topsoil will cost me about 100 dollars a ton and I just do not want to put that kind of money in land I do not own. Free dirt is unheard of down here unless it is something from a building site that would not grow anything. Even our topsoil is not really rich. Thanks.


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## floyd (Jan 7, 2012)

Can you redirect the water away from the field?

If not get some bales & put them in the gulley to see if you can slow the flow some.

Do you normally get anything to germinate this time of year? I would think the soil is too cold.

Might think about waiting to rework it until something will germinate.

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Different tack here. Put some tile in the gullies so you can control the erosion somewhat.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

mlappin said:


> We've not had near the repairs on waterways or had new gullies since going to no-till.


 Yes that is the best way to solve the problem.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

There is really no way I can direct the water away from the field as it is in a low area between two hills. I placed some square bales in the gully to keep it from washing any more until it dries up enough to work it down and resow. I believe I can get wheat or winter rye to germinate unless we get an unusual cold spell. I definitely do not want to get ryegrass started in these fields that I am growing small grains in as they tell me once it get in there I will never get rid of it. Could someone explain what tile is I have never heard of that before. Thanks.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> There is really no way I can direct the water away from the field as it is in a low area between two hills. I placed some square bales in the gully to keep it from washing any more until it dries up enough to work it down and resow. I believe I can get wheat or winter rye to germinate unless we get an unusual cold spell. I definitely do not want to get ryegrass started in these fields that I am growing small grains in as they tell me once it get in there I will never get rid of it. Could someone explain what tile is I have never heard of that before. Thanks.


We spread a winter hardy annual ryegrass in the fall as a cover crop, not that hard to kill but you have to use a few additives along with your roundup.

Tile as in drainage. Around here if not for the tile you'd be lucky on some of our ground to be able to plant 60% of it in a timely manner. Here's a video of us installing some tile on a property we bought next to the home farm a few years ago. Dad's running the machine, the hired man is wandering around and I'm running the camcorder. You can see the silos and what not on the home farm in the background towards the end.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks for the video that is really interesting. I am guessing the pipe takes the water out to a drainage ditch but how does the water get into the pipe? Bout how deep do you put the pipe on average? Those are some really nice looking flat fields.


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## evan (Jan 22, 2012)

We will run the cat through, feather it out and seed the thing down. I will usually use it as an opertunity to use up odds and ends of seed but really like to make sure that I have hairy vetch in the mix. It is much easier to kill then crown vetch when you need to, but will reseed and survive the winter (we have very harsh ones in mn)


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Neat machine, I'm guessing it doesn't not like rock. I'm quite sure all tile here has to go in with an escavator.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> Neat machine, I'm guessing it doesn't not like rock. I'm quite sure all tile here has to go in with an escavator.


Long as its not a huge rock the machine will bring em up and out. Soon as you hear it starting to hit a rock, downshift and idle all the way down. Have had it bring basketball size or a little larger up and out before. Have also had to unhook the boot, pull the machine away from the boot then take the mini excavator and dig a big rock out of the trench.

Just burned up 20lbs of a flux cored build up wire building up the drive teeth on the sides of the wheel, installed two new drive cogs for the wheel, also rebuilt the bogey wheel assemblies for the wheel. Replaced the shaft and bearings in one and built up and turned them back down all four of the truck wheels on both bogey assemblies. For the amount of hours this critter gets on it in a year it's easily the highest maintenance machine on the farm.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Depends on the tile you are using, tile for clay has slits about 3/4" long all the way around them to let the water in, say something similar to what a razor knife would make. Sand tile has tiny little holes pricked in it so it doesn't suck any sand in. Muck tile has 1/2" or 3/4" holes drilled in it to let water as the slits in clay tile or the tiny holes in sand tile will plug up in muck and let no water in.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Depth is entirely decided by the depth of the tile you are hooking into, or the depth of the ditch you are dumping into and percent slope you want on the tile.

A shallow tile will get rid of water directly above them faster than a deep tile, but the deeper the tile the more area it effectively drains to either side of it. Also have to keep em deep enough to avoid crushing them in an abnormally yet year.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Marty, what would you estimate your average tile depth for your area?

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Oh I'd say 30-36 inches when possible, only if there is no way around it will we have as little as 20 inches of cover.


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