# Annual grass control in cool season grass hay



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ok, starting to think about ways to proactively control things like foxtail, little barley and cheat in orchard grass. I like systems which address a problem over several years with a systematic approach. sorry, scientist. the local coop uses prowl, recommending a fall application for cheat because it is a winter annual, and a post first cutting for foxtail. Who has dealt with these demons successfully and how did you do it? Sorry Mike, your recommendation to weedwhip and spray roundup is a little too much for the area.

I don't have a lot but I would like a proactive program to use say in the second year of a new stand. Like you automatically do the treatment as a preventative measure. I have a little area of cheat in a new 6 ac field of OG. the og was seeded thick and germinated well so the cheat is just life.

then there is annual bluegrass which I wish I could call ICE have them round it up and send back to KY.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Are you referencing me? If so, what recommendation are you referencing in particular?

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Vol said:


> Are you referencing me? If so, what recommendation are you referencing in particular?
> 
> Regards, Mike


the one the other day with the little barley, what you said sounded like a good idea, just not practical for my situation


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

No, that would not work well in a field of Orchard grass. That situation was a ditch and field edge that looked to me like it was plagued with little barley.....which spreads like wildfire when it goes to seed and I felt like it needed a burn down. It seemed as if you were calling me out over my suggestion, which did not compare at all with your current situation.

I think the split application of Prowl would be what you are looking for though.....since the annual blue grass germinates in the early fall when temps start falling below 70° and the yellow foxtail starts to germinate when temps start rising over 70° or when the first cutting is removed. So a split application in late summer and then again in early spring would go a long ways in cleaning a field.

I have attached a study by UC Davis on yellow foxtail that I always thought was interesting about foxtail seed....and how poorly it germinates after just a few years. So if one could use Prowl for a few years it might just make a huge difference on down the road.

I hope you get your field cleaned up as it always distresses me to deal with noxious weeds and grasses in a new planting.

Regards, Mike

http://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/+symposium/proceedings/1982/82-62.pdf


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Vol said:


> No, that would not work well in a field of Orchard grass. That situation was a ditch and field edge that looked to me like it was plagued with little barley.....which spreads like wildfire when it goes to seed and I felt like it needed a burn down. It seemed as if you were calling me out over my suggestion, which did not compare at all with your current situation.
> 
> I think the split application of Prowl would be what you are looking for though.....since the annual blue grass germinates in the early fall when temps start falling below 70° and the yellow foxtail starts to germinate when temps start rising over 70° or when the first cutting is removed. So a split application in late summer and then again in early spring would go a long ways in cleaning a field.
> 
> ...


thanks. was definitely not calling you out. what I was trying to say was I am looking for a preventative system to use up front say seed field in fall and automatically go with prowl after first cutting, then in fall for the winter annuals. It may be too hard on the new grass, i don't know. I see significant annual bluegrass in a band on my new orchard planted last fall early sept and also some cheat in the same areas. funny, all treated the same way with roundup and seeded exactly the same. most of the field is solid orchard grass. I will be doing another field this fall and it is infested in one area with little barley and all over with annual bluegrass. No matter what I do this fall I suspect I will see both next year in new orchard grass.

Does prowl have a wait time till new seeding for og and can you put it on new seedlings?


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

This doesn't answer your question, but we are seeing the resurrection of native grasses of all kinds varieties in one of my Tinothy fields - very frustrating. Problem is - these fields were neglected for many years and I have to believe there is a huge legacy seed bed.

To attempt to exhaust the seed bed over a couple of years, I'm thinking about spring hitting everything with roundup and planting annual Teff and repeating e every spring, then replanting with Timothy as the seed bed exhausts.

Another route I'm thinking is simply roundup ready alfalfa for a number of years. I suppose with RR alfalfa, you could hit it multiple times of the year as winter annual/perennials go to summer annual/perennials regardless of harvest time and I'm not aware of any residuals with roundup - but haven't really checked.

Once the RR alfalfa peters out, then rotate in Timothy, Teff or OG for a few years. I just hate to think I could get some roundup resistant weeds/grasses started in the farm.

The easy button is just to say screw it and grow a nice mixed grass hay, but we've come this far, I hate to back peddle....

Just some thoughts,

Bill


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayman1 said:


> Does prowl have a wait time till new seeding for og and can you put it on new seedlings?


I read back in the winter that wait time on new stands was until the grasses had at least 6 tillers.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

leeave96 said:


> This doesn't answer your question, but we are seeing the resurrection of native grasses of all kinds varieties in one of my Tinothy fields - very frustrating. Problem is - these fields were neglected for many years and I have to believe there is a huge legacy seed bed.
> To attempt to exhaust the seed bed over a couple of years, I'm thinking about spring hitting everything with roundup and planting annual Teff and repeating e every spring, then replanting with Timothy as the seed bed exhausts.
> Another route I'm thinking is simply roundup ready alfalfa for a number of years. I suppose with RR alfalfa, you could hit it multiple times of the year as winter annual/perennials go to summer annual/perennials regardless of harvest time and I'm not aware of any residuals with roundup - but haven't really checked.
> Once the RR alfalfa peters out, then rotate in Timothy, Teff or OG for a few years. I just hate to think I could get some roundup resistant weeds/grasses started in the farm.
> ...


I like the approach of rr alfalfa but I don't want to fool with alfalfa-I'm holding out waiting for round up ready orchard grass! It does make nice mixed grass hay but it doesn't have the same production volume.


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## Mellow (Jun 22, 2015)

Hayman1 said:


> thanks. was definitely not calling you out. what I was trying to say was I am looking for a preventative system to use up front say seed field in fall and automatically go with prowl after first cutting, then in fall for the winter annuals. It may be too hard on the new grass, i don't know. I see significant annual bluegrass in a band on my new orchard planted last fall early sept and also some cheat in the same areas. funny, all treated the same way with roundup and seeded exactly the same. most of the field is solid orchard grass. I will be doing another field this fall and it is infested in one area with little barley and all over with annual bluegrass. No matter what I do this fall I suspect I will see both next year in new orchard grass.
> 
> Does prowl have a wait time till new seeding for og and can you put it on new seedlings?


The wait time on the Prowl will depend on temperature, rainfall and soil type. It would be best fto take a soil sample to make sure before planting OG or any other small seed.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Prowl will work. Apply it in the fall like they say. Again in spring before warm up. I know it will control crabgrass and annual BG. Don't think it has much effect on perennials. Annuals is where it works. Just need to have it in place before germination. I put 45 days between apps here. 3 pts/acre. If you apply this fall, get a shovel full of soil to take home to do a bioassay with whatever your wanting to seed.


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