# savings going to double rake?



## ford4x4s (Apr 4, 2011)

im still looking for a double rake and i am trying to justify the expense. right now i run two rakes on two tractors, either two rollabars or a rotary and a rollabar. im up to 125acres now and doing some quick math it seems like id only save $500 a year between fuel and labor. i have to think it would be more than that. i am a small family farm so its me my dad and grandfather and sometimes brother doing the work. usually i have a kid come in on baling days .does anyone have any hard numbers or experience that i'm not figuring for? the biggest thing i can think of is that i can have one person rake and two bale instead of two rake and one bale (nh 316 and nh 570)i try to do 1000 bales a day. thanks. (p.s. id rather a twin rotor that i can lift over windrows than a double hitch). steve


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

The other alternative is to get a v wheel rake. Faster raking speeds and fluffier rows than the rolabars. Might still have to use your single rakes on first cutting if it's heavy then use the v rake on the rest of the cuttings.


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## country boy (May 27, 2010)

Steve I went to a v rake from a side delivery and I don miss it at all. most of my baling is done by myself and instead of spending 2 1/2 hours raking I can do it in about 45 min and get to baling. and yes you could with no problem run two balers with one rake with a 20 min head start. With a v rake it is just about at what speed can you stay on the tractor. but you need to find one that you can pin one side up for the really thick fields or rig it to a two spool valve to operate each side alone


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

The more acres that can be covered by the same man raking means time he has available to do something else, or one fewer man needed at all. If you had the labour pool that I have to draw from you would be leaning toward having one fewer man!!! It is hard to get good help this maybe doesn't apply because you have family help. Of course that could make it twice as valid.


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## Haymike56 (May 3, 2010)

A few years back I changed from rollabar to a V rake. There was a great improvement in the time it took to rake. But the more I used it I found that in heavy hay it would create a wad of hay because one rear wheel would kick it onto the opposite side wheel. Got fed up with it last year and popped for a double rotary rake. What a difference. I can rake double windrows or single rows and at about 9 MPH. It also makes agreat windrow with out ropping. The only drawback is the cost, about 15K.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

sounds like a nh 216 would be a good fit for your operation


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

I have yet to make the switch to the double rotary, but I run two NH rakes with the hydraulic bridge hitch. For those rakes, you will not find a better way to rake IMO. I did exactly what you were doing, two tractors + two rakes= TOO MUCH TIME...Especially in heavy hay, you can single it, or double em up in lighter hay simply by moving a lever. Virtually maintenace free as well.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I use the bridge hitch on a pair of pequea tedders, and I would not recommend that to anyone. The rear outfit goes really fast around corners if you go the wrong way, and the 'steering' is difficult. We've been runnning a Kunh 7302 rake for about 10 years and that is really nice. We had 2 guys raking hay with single rakes, and that was no longer an option for us, so now one guy does the raking that 2 used to do. I would be sure to get a machine that can o more than one type of raking - with a NH216 (we have one of those as well) and a V wheel rake, you can ONLY make a double roll. if the hay is too heavy to put 2 rolls on one, you're up the creek without a paddle. I know there are many newer versions that allow a guy do either 1 big single, or 2 single rolls. In real light hay we double the doubles, which makes 4 rolls on one, and it's real easy to do.

125 acres is borderline for a double rake by simply saving on labor and fuel, but you also have to consider time. Can the extra guy raking hay do something else? How much is that worth? Does it mean that it will alow you to get things done better, and bring the profit up in another part of the operation?

Rodney


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Rodney, with a nh 216 you can lock up either side allowing you to turn or rake a single windrow


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## ford4x4s (Apr 4, 2011)

i think i might make a bridge hitch for this year, has anyone made one by putting a gooseneck plate on top of the first rake? seems like the second would follow around turns better than going all the way to the tractor, or would it be at too much of an angle? seems like it would be quicker and cheaper too do it this way, i would put hydraulics on it to do 1 row or 2, also i am thinking about putting a second set of wheels on the backs of the rakes with hydraulic lifts any thoughts?


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## Haymike56 (May 3, 2010)

I don't know how that would work, the hitch would have to be fairly long to get you enough swing for raking two rows. I built one that copied the NH rake hitch and it wasn't too bad to make. went to the local scrap dealer and found some 4" light gage steel tube for the bridge portion and some old spindles off a wagon. it worked real nice but the turns were tricky and you could still only rake about 4 mph.


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## stan223 (Feb 16, 2011)

hey, i have a new holland v rake 12 wheel i think.. love it to death in the straights but it wont corner just wont do it, i mow 6 laps rake into 3 then back and fourth from there out works good but i hate the corners i had 2 roll bar rakes and a hitch didnt corner great either. i have been looking at the 216 and vermeer twin basket i have also looked at Krone center delivery rotor rake. do any of these rakes corner?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

It will not work to do a bridge hitch on the 1st rake, if you have any hills - cause the rear rake will want to pull the hitch straight, whe going up (or on the side), and push the bridge going down. The rear rake simply pulls too hard, and like you said the angle will be too much. You have to run it front to the tractor, and even then a guy might neee a few suitcase weights on the axle on the bridge.

I know that a guy can lock the one basket on he 216 up, and make a single..... But what is the point if a guy only wants to make single rolls? I do that as a way to finish a field. There are many times when a double roll is too heavy for the little baler.

Rodney


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## nosliw (Feb 8, 2010)

i'm in the same boat. with high fuel prices, a new daughter, and a more demanding day job, i need a faster way to rake.

I'm considering a new kuhn 8 or 10 wheel speedrake, also considering picking up another NH model 56 (to match my other one) and bridging them.

i found another 56 for less than $1000 and have enough scrap laying around to make my own bridge hitch.

i'm running out of time and have to move on something soon.


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## Iowa hay guy (Jul 29, 2010)

we have a NH 258 and a 260 left and right rollbar rakes with the NH hitch 
i tryed the neighbors h&s 12 wheel v rake and as far as im concerned i wouldnt trade the roll bar rakes are simple and last forever


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## nosliw (Feb 8, 2010)

i haven't used a v-rake, but watched several videos on them and i'm not real fond of how much dirt and dust they kick up.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

nosliw said:


> i haven't used a v-rake, but watched several videos on them and i'm not real fond of how much dirt and dust they kick up.


If adjusted properly, no more dirt or dust than a bar rake. Also no roping, can wait a little longer to rake because of less shatter.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We have run double rotaries since 2002. First a Miller pro 2250 and now a Kuhn 7922(?#). The extra expense is the only downfall to a rotary. We have run rollbars and custom baled behind v-rakes, they both get the job done, but I think the rotary makes a nicer windrow and eliminates alot of green clumps that get roped together by the rollbars. Also the ability to make two singles for the small balers in 3 ton/acre 1st cutting timothy is a huge advantage over the v-rake.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> vermeer twin basket





> do any of these rakes corner?


Vermeer R series twin rakes will, WRX not so much. It would be real hard to get us to part with that R23, unless it was for a R2300.


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## ford4x4s (Apr 4, 2011)

on making double rake, what if i were to not make a bridge to the first rake but modify the hitch on the second rake, so the rake itself hooks to the first rake with hydraulic swing so it will go to either side. would it still try to straighten out?. also, was daydreaming of this....a large, long frame (like those big twin rotors) but hang a rollabar in the middle, have a rollabar on wings on either side (so 3 total) but have one in front and one behind center rake. with all 3 down you would be making 1 single row and one double row, when you get to end of field, come back next to single row and double it. or if hay is heavy leave one rake up and do two singles.....maybe too elaborate but sounded cool in my head (i have a few old rollabars lying around) also maybe it would work better as a 4 wheeled wagon.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I haven't said anything but my wife went ahead and bought a new NH 256 with dolly wheels, she likes a Rollabar rake, she went from an older 256 w/o dolly wheels and really likes the dolly wheel unit. The NH 216 is really nice but she's only doing maybe 75-100 acres a year. As far as fluffy windrows, I guess I need to take a few pictures of the windrows she made yesterday. She wanted a wheel rake until she found out they rake up too many rocks and dirt clods. She still breaks ground every year, the majority of her hay is Oats and then later in the season Soybeans and Millet hay. The single Rollabar is definitely not the fastest rake out there but it's tried and true and leaves virtually nothing behind in the field. A couple neighbors came out yesterday up the road, where she has some land separate from the main farm, and was talking to her for and bit and the lady said the field looked like someone had mowed it with a lawnmower when it was finished. The dolly wheels are sweet but it's like trying to back a wagon, a pain the arse. I told her to leave the shed open all the way through for the new rake but she didn't and has to back it in until we remove a couple of items.

I just checked the price of a NH 216 $30K. I'd have to look at a Krone twin rotor really hard before laying out that kind of dough.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Grateful11 said:


> She wanted a wheel rake until she found out they rake up too many rocks and dirt clods.


A good one doesn't rake up any more rocks and dirt than any other rake if properly adjusted. The ones where each wheel is spring loaded can practically be set so the stubble is turning the wheel.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> A good one doesn't rake up any more rocks and dirt than any other rake if properly adjusted. The ones where each wheel is spring loaded can practically be set so the stubble is turning the wheel.


We probably should have went and looked at a wheel rake in operation but everyone, 3 users and 2 dealers, told us that they ran on the ground so we pretty much took their word for it. Both of the big hay guys that are near us both use twin rotor rotarys, not sure where we would have went to see one. We have a lot of rocks, she feeds all the hay she puts up to her own herd of 50 and she hates dirt clods and rocks, if she sees 3 rocks out 300 round bales in the feeding troughs it's a stretch, she's pretty old school so it would have been hard to get her change from a Rollabar anyway. She's happy with the new rake, so a happy woman is much easier to live with, after 24 years I'll keep her ;-)

It can cleans a field. These were the small windrows, one pass up and one pass back was giving us 3'-4' wide 18"-24" high windrows, they were hitting the weights on the CaseIH 5140, the JD 448 took it in stride though. It's the best hay we've seen in years, Oats and Rye mix.


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## cbdave (Jan 14, 2011)

I have gone from 5 bar side delivery rakes, to cheap used v rakes and now use large Sitrex V14 V rake. If the hay is wet (Shouldnt be raking it anyways) you may have to put more adjustment down and you will pick up dirt. We do wet hay and it requires 2 passes when wet if not enough down adjustment. If adjusted properly you should not have dirt unless its from the occasional woodchuck den. Rocks are never lifted. Its all about adjustment. You need to spend 15 minutes adjusting the rake and your set for the season. I can rake as fast as I can drive. Over 10mph in alfalfa you get some leaf fracture. So under 10 mph is best. I can rake 100 acre in 2 1/2 hours. That means the hay is free from dew when I rake at 11am. Am one by 2PM and ready to bale dry hay by 4PM. Best creation ever. Love the v rakes. Now a crappy quality trailer style rake will ball up in back before it exits the V. But a hydraulic spread unit is best. They are adjustable to lock one side up and only do one row. But here is the only problem that nobody has mentioned yet. Tires. Yup, 3/8 round metal as its flexed one way and released every rotation begins to weaken. And even with no ground pressure, they will break. Usually in the back of the V where the windrow is layed to be baled and exactly where the tractor tires will be driving to bale. I replace them every 2 years but it still happens. Scientists will tell you rubber is not magnetic. Bulshit. I have $2000 in tire repairs to support my theory that tires magnetically pick up broken tines and the broken tines will have a nice sharp point on them to enter the tire beautifully. Now dont get me wrong, I love the tine V rakes. And if time is money (Which I think I pay myself less than my hired men per hour when its all said and done) I do save. I can put 2 rakes in the field at 11AM double windrowing and hit 100 acres in 1 1/2 hours. Double windrows are perfect, hay is fluffy and I dont have to swerve when round baling or large square baling. Makes life easier. But as stated by others, in 1st cutting it doesnt do as nice of a job leaving the wet under part of windrow on top to dry if thick windrows to start. I think Sitrex are $8K plus but have seen some new designs with large solid wheels and short stubby tines with rubber supports where they mount. They sell for $14K and from my experience, will be my next rake. Its not the $2K in tire repairs, its the baler not moving forward when the hay is dry and rain coming tomorrow. That stress. My wife will probably pay for the extra for the newer designs just to save her and the kids from "Grumpy dad". 
Good luck, all I can say is the pro vs cons of all, I wouldnt replace my V rake for anything.


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