# NH Br780 with Netwrap and Bale Command Plus problems



## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Bought a new baler... well, a new to us but used baler. Its a 2005 baler and we are not familiar with Bale Command so has been a learning curve with our new baler in the field ...with 90 acres of hay down. First time out we had error issues with the tailgate which we recified. Baler would roll bales normally, beep when getting close to desired size and then alarm when is. It is both a netwrap and twine baler. when in auto wrap the baler would call for the netwrap and then the command would switch itself to twine and extend the twine arms. Now the command will not let us change back over to netwrap. We had a serviceman meet us at the field (yep first day with new baler), he checked over the sensors, adjusted the tailgate sensor, checked to be certain that the netwrap mechanism would run. He did get the command to switch over on his brand new one he brought to the field back to netwrap, but again, when trying to run a netwrap cycle the command switched to twine again! He checked over the wiring, wiring harness, pins in the connections and was baffled as to what the fix would be.

Anyone ever experienced this issue? Previous owner says he never experienced it with the baler and does not know what to tell us.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Eowyn said:


> He did get the command to switch over on his brand new one he brought to the field back to netwrap, but again, when trying to run a netwrap cycle the command switched to twine again! He checked over the wiring, wiring harness, pins in the connections and was baffled as to what the fix would be.
> 
> Anyone ever experienced this issue? Previous owner says he never experienced it with the baler and does not know what to tell us.


Are you saying that it exhibited the problem while using the new monitor or only after switching back to your monitor? If it didn't work properly with either monitor, you first need to make sure your ground and voltage are good. Do you have it wired direct to your battery? If it only gave you trouble with the old monitor, it's time to ship off your monitor for repair. 
Mike10 will be along to explain this more thoroughly.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Dying a little inside here to say this, but hi tech may be correct. Make sure you ground to the battery and make sure you have good clean connections.


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Yes, when he hooked up his new monitor he was intially able to get it to switch to netwrap again but as soon as he ran a wrap cycle it immediately switched back to twine and would not switch back. He checked wires and pins on connections, we looked hard to find any loose wires and in the end he did not have an answer for us.

thoughts are not enough voltage to run netwrap or switch the command back? will return to rechecking all connections again today. Very frustrating, previous owner says he never had this issue and never ran the baler in twine, only was on the monitor with twine perhaps by mistake or misskey but never had any issues switching from one to another.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Did the service tech bring an operators panel or the controller on the baler? The problem should be one or the other. If you press and hold the wrap key to initiate a wrapping cycle, while set for net, will it switch to twine?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

If I understand it correctly, there are 4 main elements to this (I'm guessing your setup on your 780 is the same as my setup on my 780A)

There's the cabin display monitor, the tractor cable, the baler cable and the baler control unit. Since every thing supposedly "worked" before you bought the unit, my SWAG would be that one of the two cables got twisted/damaged somewhere in the de-install or the re-install.

My first guess would be the cable from the cabin monitor to the back of the tractor at the connector. My second guess would be the connector at the tractor coming from the baler. It's pretty easy to twist the cable inside the connector if the clamp is not tight and end up with a crossed connection. On my rig, this plug/receptacle is pretty doggone sensitive. Sometimes I have to do a Mexican rain dance to get a good solid connection.

My third guess would be the baler control unit. The cabin monitor is basically only a display unit and most of the "work" is done by the baler unit.

Hope this helps and let us know what you find.

Ralph


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

OK, now that I am not in a rush we can trouble shoot this problem. First we need to verify the baler is configured for net and twine. You do this by entering the setup mode. I am attaching a file that explains how to enter the setup mode and how to check what the baler is configured for. The baler can be configured for net only, twine only or twine and net. When you get to the right menu item, in this case "2" just pay attention to what is flashing and what is not. Then compare it to the configurations in the attached file. If you need to change the configuration just press and hold the twine/net key for two seconds. To enter the setup menus you press and hold the open book button until the alarm sounds and a 1 appears on the left side of the screen.

Don't worry about screwing anything up, whatever you do can be undone. When you have the right configuration stored just turn the panel off.

Don't be concerned about the sentence that says it is for Europe only. That is not the case. When you add twine to a bale slice baler you need to do this configuration to get the twine to work. Strange things can happen without the operator knowing anything has happened. There is a tendency to press buttons when there is a problem.

View attachment Bale Command Plus Configuration.pdf


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I wondered about checking Item 2 in the diagnostics also.


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Hi Everyone, thank you for your insight. Mike10 I will check the configurations tomorrow. So, it would make sense that when the tech put the new monitor on to check that he initially could switch to net until he tried to run a netwrap cycle?... would the baler computor automatically change this to twine on the new monitor?

Previous owner said he had none of these issues and I am apt to believe him and the monitor was on netwrap when we first connected it. It would be fairly difficult to accidently change it from Net/twine to twine only? I guess it could be possible. I mentioned to previous owner that perhaps there were issues with the computor on the baler and he said he highly doubts it as he has never had issue and during out time trying to figure out the new baler we only actually made 3 bales...albeit not wrapped!

We had to hit the field today with it again as we had 90 acres of hay down and rain coming in. to make things work the tech manually switched the plugs from the baler computor to the harness direct and manual for netwrap. We were able to get the netwrapping done then. We did have a few issues with the stop/cut on the toggle where it would not complete. we discovered as we went that their must be a loose wire behind or around the toggle which if we put pressure on it it would function normally. so definately a loose wire there but not sure if that would affect the ability to switch from twine/net on the monitor.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

When dealing with electronics some strange things can happen. The use of the switch to control the wrapping has no effect on the bale command system since it by-passes the system completely. The switch has it's own power and ground supply and separate wires in the harness and connectors. The only shared component is the actuator.

I agree with the tech that the controller is a very reliable part of the system. However, there are really only two components that would cause your problem if it is not a configuration problem, the operators panel and the controller. I can not see the wiring or connections causing the problem. Something is telling the controller to use twine only. Since the problem was still present with the panel the tech had that leaves only one possible source of the problem. If they have a used baler on the lot it is a simple operation to remove the controller from that baler and try it on your baler. As long as it is a BR baler the controller will work on your baler. All you will need to do is plug it into the harness and configure it to a 780 if it came off a different baler. Probably do not even need to configure it since you are only interested in seeing the net system work. I keep a spare controller, operators panel and tractor harness to quickly determine where the problem is at.

When you turn the operators panel on does it say 780 when it first comes on?


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

yes, it says 780 when it comes on

so, to clarify my question. when the command it configured/set up and if mistakenly put in twine only...would have it changed the baler controller to twine only and thus the same issue comes up with a new out of the box bale command? or, is the configuration/set up a baler command setting only? I suspect yes as it has to read all of the stuff from the baler controller...but....


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The configurations are stored in the controller on the baler. Changing the operators panel will not correct a configuration problem. The operators panel is basically a switch box with limited computing operations. You do access the controller through the operators panel though.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

OK, you piqued my interest on this one. I have attached two pages. One page is the electrical schematic which shows the wiring for a normal baler, i.e., without bale slice or rotor cutter options.

Studying the wiring, relay 1 is used to select net or twine wrap. This circuit comes from the display panel ""A02" and is "read" by the baler controller, "A01". While the drawing doesn't say which is which, my guess is that the relay is actuated for net.

Studying a bit more means that you highest likely problem would be that the relay has died, or, second, that you have a connector problem on pins 6 (orange) or 9 (red).

Pin 6 (orange) comes from the display controller and activates the relay. Pin 9 (red) is probably the "net or twine" signal.

Because you were able to wrap manually, you were coming through the connector on pin 10 (also red).

There are actually two connectors involved here: one at the display and one at the back of the tractor.

My first thought would be to check the relay. Pull it and and check for continuity on pins 1 and 3. If you have continuity, rig up a connection to a 12V battery on pins 1 (+) and pin 3 (-), then check for continuity on pins 2 and 4 when activated, no continuity when no power.

If the relay checks out, then check the seating of the pins at both the display and the tractor. I have had pins like these get pushed out (they snap into position), then appear to be good as I disconnected the plug. This can cause an intermittent problem where it looks like it is working, but the fails. Use a needle nose pliers and push/pull pins 6 and 9. If either pushes in, then the problem was that that pin had come unseated inside the connector.

Another thing to check is that the voltage is correct. The relay may have been getting enough voltage to be activated the first time, but dropped out when the voltage dropped as the actuator drew down.

Appropriate pins to check:

Pins 1 and 8 are (-).

Pins 6, 9, 10 - Net/twine relay signal control.

View attachment Scan0001.pdf
View attachment Scan0002.pdf


mike10, what's your thoughts?

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I think you may have put your finger on the problem. Forgot all about that relay.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Ralph, I think you are on the right path but the diagram is not for the internal relay but for the external relay on the back side of the controller mounting bracket. Have not had a lot of time to study but since the power goes to the relay from the circuit breaker it has to go to the outside relay first before the system can activate. I will look closer tonight after work. You will also note that the wire size is 3 which is a heavy wire.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I think you're right: the relay shown in the drawing is the external power relay. The other relays are missing from the drawing. It certainly would be nice if it was complete.

1) There is the "external" power relay which is outside the baler control box.

2) There is the "internal" net/twine relay which is inside the baler control box. This is the one I think might be bad. (If the baler is equipped with bale slice or rotor cutter, there will be two more relays inside the control box).

Ralph


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Sorry for the delay in follow up. Mike 10 was correct on the set up the bale command...it was mistakenly put in twine only so it has been swiched to netwrap only. Still having a few issues we are trying to sort out...first the coman says that there is aactuator error (flashing triangle) when starting. The baler does start the netwrap cycle and then appears to call for the Duck bill to retract and cut...which it doesnt. BUT most of the time it does work when retract button is held down but there are times that it does not. Similar to the issue we were having with the manual toggle switch. It does engage it just does not seem to fully complete the retract cycle. Bad sensor? Something on actuator not aligned properly? When hitting both the extend and retract buttons we read a little over 12v going to the actuator motor on both. The motor did get stuck in full extend on us today. At first we thought it a motor problem...gears making noise without movement. But when removed from the machine and plugged to an electical lead it would both extend and retract without issue. So back on the machine it went.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You have more than one problem. Generally when the duckbill does not return to the home position, except for the issue you just stated, it is because the system has sensed the tailgate opening. It may be only for a second that it senses the tailgate opening, but that will stop the duckbill. Unless you have an early version of software any other fault will bring the duckbill to the home position automatically. I like to set the tailgate sensor so it is about 1/16" from the pin when the gate is closed and latched and the baler is empty. Bend the bracket or slot the holes further. The tailgate latches do wear and can allow the tailgate to move away from the sensor when the bale is being formed.

To check which version of software you have, go back into the diagnostics and press the open book key until you see a "C" and a number. The number is the software version. I would think yours should be about version 5. If you have version 1 then I would have the software updated. If the baler was mine, I would update the software regardless.

You need to recalibrate the net actuator. Enter the diagnostics and go to item 13, I think. The triangle should be on by net and a triangle should be on over the actuator on the operators panel. Extend the duckbill by using the extend key. When you hear the duckbill hit the stop bolt release the extend button. There will be a number displayed somewhere in the 20 to 40 range. Say you have 30 being display. Bump the retract key until the number is like 32. The numbers move fast so you may need to go back and forth until you get 32. At that point press and hold the "+" key until the alarm sounds. Now use the retract key until the duckbill is in the home position. Once in the home position press and hold the "-" key until the alarm sounds.

The reason your actuator jammed today is because the actuator is trying to force the duckbill past the stop bolt. The stop bolt is on the side of the duckbill. It is a 12mm bolt, @ 1/2", with a nut on each side of the angle it goes trough. When the duckbill rotates the head of the bolt comes down on the horizontal bracket. When you jam the duckbill like that, just loosen the bottom nut to relieve the pressure and then you can retract the duckbill. Once the duckbill is free then tighten the bottom nut back where it was. If it jammed when you manually inserted the duckbill then you do not need to do anything else. If it jammed when it was in the automatic mode then you need to recalibrate the actuator as stated above. If it continues to jam after recalibration then recalibrate at 33, using the example above, and try it again. Repeat until it stops jamming.

If you have an error being displayed, you may not be able to retract the duckbill. In that case press the clear button to get rid of the error message and then press and hold the retract key to return the duckbill home. If you wait to long the error message will come back.

You can check the operation of the net system by opening the front door and swinging the net roll out. HAVE THE TRACTOR ENGINE SHUT OFF. Have someone initiate a wrapping cycle by pressing and holding the wrap button until the alarms sounds, about 3 seconds. Once the duckbill is fully inserted start rotating the counter roller, the roller that rides against the net. You will see a magnet on the side of the roller facing the sensor. If the baler is still set at factor defaults then the magnet will pass the sensor 4 times before the duckbill returns to the precut position. 12 is the maximum number of rotations that can be programmed into the system. Continue to turn the roller until the duckbill returns to the home position and the knife slams home. If the duckbill does not stop at the precut position you have another issue that we will deal with at that time. If this works it should work when you get to the field.


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Great info! Yes the duckill only jammed in manual use so we shouldn't have to Re calibatrate? The actuator triangle is flashing from the start of the bale however the tailgate triangle is not. It was adjusted by the tech in the field but we can try moving it closer.

What about the Duck bill not retracting and completing the cut?

Where do you update software?

Thanks again!


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

What I mean is what about it not retracting enough to make the cut? Will this issuE be fixed with recalibrating?


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Great info! Yes the duckill only jammed in manual use so we shouldn't have to Re calibatrate? The actuator triangle is flashing from the start of the bale however the tailgate triangle is not. It was adjusted by the tech in the field but we can try moving it closer.

What about the Duck bill not retracting and completing the cut?

Where do you update software?

Thanks again!


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Tried to Re calibrate and I get an error message while pressing the + and - keys. Not sure where to take it from here? Bad sensor on the actuator?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If you get an error message when pressing the "-" key then press the "+" key instead and vise versa. I get confused sometimes on which to press. If you still get an error message post what number is being displayed when you try and calibrate.


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

Same result. Error 13 or 13 er


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

What is the number on the right side of the display when you try and calibrate. Look at the clamp on the actuator that holds the potentiometer. The clamp should be flush with the front of the actuator. There is an upper limit at what the potentiometer can be calibrated. The potentiometer is held with two little screws which you will need a 7mm wrench. Loosen the screws and rotate the potentiometer to get the number between 25 and 35 when the duckbill is inserted and then try calibrating again.


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## Eowyn (Sep 17, 2015)

The display reads 13255 so last two numbers 55. No change in numbers of the calibration settings when pentometers level is adjusted. StI'll actuator error when command boots up


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

When you have 255 displaying it is an indication that either the potentiometer is bad or you have a broken wire in the harness. Since you are not using the twine remove the twine potentiometer and just plug it into the harness in place of the net potentiometer. If it still reads 255 try turning the inner section of the potentiometer to see if the numbers change. The potentiometer only turns one way so do not force it. It is possible someone forced the one on the net. If the numbers do not change when turning the potentiometer than you have a bad wire somewhere.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I think you have found the reason the baler was set for twine only.

The left hand portion of the display is for the menu item you are checking. The right hand side is the value of that menu item. In your case you read all three numbers, 255, and not just the 55 at the end. When properly set up and working the display should show somewhere between 20 and 35 when the actuator is fully extended and somewhere around 190 when fully retracted. NH says to adjust the potentiometer between 20 and 30 when calibrating the extended position, but you can go somewhat higher in reality. I would keep it under 40 though. If it calibrates you will be ok.

Here is how to check the wires to the controller from the potentiometer. In the information it says to check voltage across two of the pins, but this step is after it tells you to disconnect the plug from the controller. The plug must be attached to the controller and the system turned on to get the 5V.

View attachment Potentiometer.pdf


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