# Alfalfa



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

According to my U of TN ag school, I am supposed to let a "new stand" of alfalfa come to "full" bloom before I cut it for the first time. This is supposedly to allow for more complete root development before the new plant is cut. Do you fellas do this? If so, do you square bale this full bloom cutting ? Do you discount this full bloom cutting?









Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I cut it last.I have about 8 fields of alfalfa so it works out fine for me.The new stand will be later then the rest in blooming any way.New seeding is slower from going from bud stage to full bloom also.Typically not as coarse as a established stand at full bloom so no I don't discount it.It wouldn't prly make dairy either but the stand may last longer.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

It will make the neighborhood honeybees very happy!! ;-)


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Nitram said:


> It will make the neighborhood honeybees very happy!! ;-)


Gosh, we do not have hardly any honeybees left around here. Seldom do you see them working white clover like you used to see happening. About 25 years ago I used to keep a hive or two of bees and when they died out I never replaced them. Last December I placed a order with the Walter T. Kelley co. in Kentucky for a April delivered package of bees. Have been getting a hive body ready for them this past week. Thought I would try and do my part on helping out the pollination situation here. I wonder how Alfalfa blossom honey tastes?

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I would tend to agree, with the qualifications depending on the amount of moisture. I think it's real important to have a solid root system when cutting and that most stand damage occurs because of improper cutting. Alfalfa regrows from the crown which is under ground as opposed to grasses where the crown is above ground.

From what I gather, the root system of most plants mimics the size of the above ground foliage. So teh first cutting, the root system would only be a 15-18" deep and, if there's not enough moisture, the stand's regrowth will be limited. After time, alfalfa's tap root will go as much as 50' deep (or so I was told!).

Ralph


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

In our region of Texas, alfalfa will extend its root system to the depth of the soil's growth-limiting condition. Because of alfalfa's requirement for a well-drained, well-aerated soil, that condition may be the depth of clay (B horizon, also referred to as the zone of accumulation- soil particulate matter and some nutrients). In some years, our normal rainfall will keep that subsoil zone saturated. Subsoil acidity (aluminum) also will limit alfalfa root growth. When a soil's pH drops below 5.5, aluminum begins solubilization and as the pH continues to decline below pH 5.5, solubilization increases exponentially (quite rapidly). It doesn't take much solubilized aluminum to prevent alfalfa root growth. The aluminum disrupts the growth of the root tip.

When alfalfa is seeded in fall, the seed germinates and sends up a stem that has the two cotyledons on top that resemble two (green legless) ticks getting their nurishment from the end of a stick. The tiny plant will remain in this situation for a while and gives the impression that the plant is not growing. However, on digging up one of these tiny plants one discovers that the tap root system is increasing in depth by "leaps and bounds" compared to the above-ground stem. This extended root system gives the fall-seeded alfalfa a tremendous advantage to compete with weeds when winter dormancy breaks.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

vhaby said:


> This extended root system gives the fall-seeded alfalfa a tremendous advantage to compete with weeds when winter dormancy breaks.


For the last several years, here in East Tennessee, "fall seeded" Alfalfa has been greatly affected by Sclerotinia which has infected and killed large percentages of newly planted fields. I prefer fall seeding of forages in most every instance, but the current risk with fall planted Alfalfa is just too great and with high costs of RR Alfalfa seed it becomes prohibitive. Spring planting is now the choice method of planting for many....here.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

No need to discount it, like CY pointed out, even if cut later the new stand of alfalfa will be much finer stem than a later cutting of an established field. Highest priced hay I've sold this winter was from from cutting off a brand new field I made at the end of June or the first week of July.

Like what was mentioned, I do like to wait longer for the first cutting on a newly planted field _unless_ a companion crop was used or weed pressure starts to appear.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Mike,
As most of you know, alfalfa normally is seeded in spring in northern states. Your problem with fall seeded alfalfa may indicate a transition zone from seeding in fall in southern states to seeding in spring in northern states. In moving from the south to the north, where do soils remain frozen in the surface for any length of time, (I know it depends on the year) and is that the factor that affects seedling alfalfa survival? I've seen established alfalfa growing (breaking dormancy) under snow cover in Montana during the spring.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

vhaby said:


> Mike,
> As most of you know, alfalfa normally is seeded in spring in northern states. Your problem with fall seeded alfalfa may indicate a transition zone from seeding in fall in southern states to seeding in spring in northern states. In moving from the south to the north, where do soils remain frozen in the surface for any length of time, (I know it depends on the year) and is that the factor that affects seedling alfalfa survival? I've seen established alfalfa growing (breaking dormancy) under snow cover in Montana during the spring.


I do not have any facts or statistics on why fall planted alfalfa here in East Tennessee has been susceptible to Sclerotinia the last several years, but I highly suspect it has to do with abnormally moist winters and very mild temperatures. We have not had a "winter" type season here in several years.

Regards, Mike


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*alfalfa's requirement for a well-drained, well-aerated soil*, vhaby
From here the devil is in the details. 
With full irrigation the roots might only go down 6 feet.

From what I gather, the root system of most plants mimics the size of the above ground foliage. The rule of thumb here is the roots can go as deep in feet as the tops are tall in inches.

For spring Seeded alfalfa. *So the first cutting, the root system would only be a 15-18" deep and, if there's not enough moisture, the stand's regrowth will be limited.* This is a good point. 
In theory with long nights and short days most of the growth goes to the roots. So advantage to Fall planting. 
More than 12 hour days the growth is more to the tops, this may *the why *for limited root growth on early harvesting. I like to allow the first cutting seedling year to reach half or later bloom before cutting. With multiple fields in alfalfa this is easy, just cut the first season hay last in the first cutting cycle. In fact the seedling year I may cut first years alfalfa at half bloom on two or three cuttings.

*After time, alfalfa's tap root will go as much as 50' deep (or so I was told!). rjmoses *There is a story about a dry land alfalfa growing in Nevada where the roots of alfalfa plants were penetrating the roof of some old mines. -95 feet comes to mind.

The people in California make a big thing about timing of alfalfa harvest, with each field one time during the season being in bloom for at least one cutting each season. (They may cut at or before early bud stage! for Dairy Quality)

With this soil, this climate, and my management style planting in September results in a larger first season's yield, and an extra year or more longevity. 
Some of that may be the fall weed pressures, here, are less than our spring weed pressures. 
It may be the deeper root penetration going into our annual summer droughts. Here freshly seeded alfalfa will grow all winter long, with little, or no, frost kill of the tops.

It was my impression that a Fall Seeding for Kentucky and the Midwest was early in August.

Here the weather dictates harvesting intervals. March, April, & May it is difficult to find weather opportunities to cut hay. July and August we do not have enough moisture to have any hay to harvest. September and October can be challenging. Seldom can I cut one field 4 times in a season. I now limit myself to 5 alfalfa fields and 8 bermudagrass fields.

Interesting topic.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

40 years ago I messed with bees in the back yard. Even toyed with the idea of going into keeping bees. Sure glad I didn't as that industry has had big time problems. 
There came to the industry a couple of pest that has been hard on the industry. There is at least on parasite that is devastating the feral bee population. 
I believe there is also a disease that has been hard on the industry.

The result has been there just are no surviving wild or feral bees. With intensive management there are bees though.

40 years ago the word was bees could and would travel up to 8 miles. Back then if establishing a Bee Yard the State of Texas wanted to know about it.

Alfalfa honey is another clover honey. Problem was & is the bees quickly learn to avoid alfalfa. 
The good thing is there is a world of native to America natural pollinators. Bumble Bees any number of butterflies and maybe even moths.

Somehow my fruit trees set fruit and my summer drought alfalfa also sets seed. 
I would like to have a border of RR alfalfa with my neighbors corn so he would feel at ease spraying right up to the property line, maybe even a little on my side. 
Unlike much of the world with our summer drought alfalfa July regrowth will grow to maybe 10" tall, bloom and make seed. Contrary to popular thinking this seed will shatter off and germinate in an established stand. It will grow and thrive in a moist fall. The result could be roundup tolerant alfalfa mixed in with my regular alfalfa. The Pinkerton's would have a ball and earn a nice bonus detecting this low life. All accomplished by the butterfly's and bumble bees.

The good thing about the parasites and diseases the march of the Africanized Honey Bee has about been stopped.

If it works, regulate it, if it keeps working, tax it, if it quits working, subsidize it!

Don't fear your mortality, because it is this very mortality that gives meaning, depth, and poignancy to all the days that will be granted to you. 
Paul Tsongas


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Yes the alfalfa plant spanks a honey bee when they land and go for it. Most bees we now encounter are european. They are remarkable creatures


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> The people in California make a big thing about timing of alfalfa harvest, with each field one time during the season being in bloom for at least one cutting each season.


I like to take my first cutting when the field is about 10% in bloom, then every 28 days (plus whatever I need for appropriate weather)

Ralph


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

We prefer to seed in the fall, and have observed the same as other users here: The plant may not be growing UP much during the winter, but it is definitely growing DOWN (root system).

Also, we do not like to have ANY bloom in a "dairy" cutting. If I see a single flower out there, I went too long, and my Feed Value will have already taken a hit. My schedule is the same as rjmoses after that, cut every 28 days, weather permitting!

Bloom is more than acceptable in our later cuttings, but the dairy boys will not be excited about bloom in their hay.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance but what is it about the blooms that turns off the dairy buyers? Does it effect the taste of the milk or quality produced? Thanks. Martin


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Last year, I had one cutting go about two weeks after first bloom because of weather. The hay from that cutting had a stem that was coarser than the first cutting. I'm guessing that the plant starts putting more energy into seed production that into leaf growth.

Ralph


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

> Forgive my ignorance but what is it about the blooms that turns off the dairy buyers? Does it effect the taste of the milk or quantity produced? Thanks. Martin


The RFV and Crude Protein drop off sharply as the plant starts to bloom. Dairies pay for food value, less food value less $'s


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

I was taught to watch for new shoots at the crown of the plant. As soon as the new shoots are started the root has adequate reserves for the next cutting. If a person waits to long and clips the new shoots as he cuts the present cutting it will cause the plant to start over with new shoots and the recovery will be far slower for the next cutting. Cutting to early may give a higher feed value feed but can draw down the root reserves causing the plant to be more susceptible to diseae and stress. Cutting near the proper state can give high feed value and maximum yeild per year to. Mel


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

Alfalfa doesn't stop growing once it starts blooming. My biggest problem with 28 day hay is the fact that you are most of the time dealing with ton or ton and a half hay and MAYBE a 5th cutting. If you can grow 2800 pounds per acre in 28 days, why cut yourself short on yield? That is 100 pounds of dry forage per acre per day. We try to get in early on 1st and then let it go out to 40 days per cutting and cut 2 ton+ hay 3 times, and then let the 4th do what it can do(normally 1.5-2 tons). Alfalfa that is cut a bit more mature seems to cure quicker than premature cut hay in our area. We also cater to the horse market where 200rfv hay is not desired, so I am biased about tons vs test.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

We do almost exactly what Tim does with his alfalfa. Except up until a couple years ago we didn't even do a 4th cutting as we only did small bales and 4th cutting is generally to rich for horses. I also agree with his statements about it drying better with a bit of bloom. But then we farm in the same general area. As for root systems in our area we've noticed people irrigating the alfalfa more then people used to here. Which means the roots don't go down very far and we've also noticed stands not lasting as long. We like to slightly stress our alfalfa when it is a new stand so the roots go down. We prefer to plant alfalfa in Late summer, early fall to get a few inches of growth before it goes dormant for the winter, but the only way you can do that really is if the field has been growing an early harvest crop like wheat, potatos. Corn is harvested way to late.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

I agree with you Tim you have to produce the hay for a intended market. The new cheese plant near Treslan will change that hay market some. In this area we have to much of our market dominated by ranchers wanting cheap bulk! Mel


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

sedurbin said:


> The RFV and Crude Protein drop off sharply as the plant starts to bloom. Dairies pay for food value, less food value less $'s


This exactly. The drop-off is very sharp! Someone else also mentioned how the stems will start to become more coarse. All of these changes are extremely rapid and greatly effect our feed scores.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

HALLSHAY said:


> Alfalfa doesn't stop growing once it starts blooming. My biggest problem with 28 day hay is the fact that you are most of the time dealing with ton or ton and a half hay and MAYBE a 5th cutting. If you can grow 2800 pounds per acre in 28 days, why cut yourself short on yield? That is 100 pounds of dry forage per acre per day. We try to get in early on 1st and then let it go out to 40 days per cutting and cut 2 ton+ hay 3 times, and then let the 4th do what it can do(normally 1.5-2 tons). Alfalfa that is cut a bit more mature seems to cure quicker than premature cut hay in our area. We also cater to the horse market where 200rfv hay is not desired, so I am biased about tons vs test.


I would love to grow for tons and not test all year long! Typically our first three cuttings will be headed to a dairy, where that magic 200 RFV and high protein is the goal.

After that we traditionally have sold our summer hay to the local feedyard, which is now a JBS yard. When we start those cuttings it is ALL about the tons. We will water twice and cut every 30-40 days, depending on weather, condition of fields, etc. Our tonnage is comparable to yours, about 2 tons during the summer.

I just got some test numbers back from my first cutting.

Baby Hay at Ponderosa
Crude Protein: 25.4%
RFV: 196.2

Baby Hay at Shop
Crude Protein: 25%
RFV: 170.6


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Excellent info here in this thread......keep it up fellas. This is invaluable for many readers and myself. The little things that are overlooked when growing Alfalfa by you fellas should be included in conversation here as it will benefit us new growers. Tips about things YOU look for or look at when deciding to cut, spray or whatever would really be useful in this thread.

Regards, Mike


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

LeadFarmer As long as you are pulling hay samples any way, consider looking at the mineral analysis to track your fertility. 
California's Steve Orloff mentioned this a couple times at the California Alfalfa seminars, as well as in Washington State & Idaho. 
The idea is Dairy Quality hay is cut before the normal time to pull tissue samples. 
I can not provide any links as my computer dumped all that information just two days ago.

HERE without irrigation and our random rain events I just hope to have a 20% CP 30% ADF & 40% NDF.


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

> I would love to grow for tons and not test all year long!


Hey LeadFarmer,
Bale it green and in a 4x4 and you could send it north all year long


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

How many cuttings do you get a year Leadfarmer?


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> LeadFarmer As long as you are pulling hay samples any way, consider looking at the mineral analysis to track your fertility.
> California's Steve Orloff mentioned this a couple times at the California Alfalfa seminars, as well as in Washington State & Idaho.
> The idea is Dairy Quality hay is cut before the normal time to pull tissue samples.
> I can not provide any links as my computer dumped all that information just two days ago.
> ...


I fully agree with you on the mineral analysis! Our current dairy buyer requires a mineral analysis as well.

I already posted my CP scores, but I did pretty well on the ADF and NDF as well. Our goals (set by the dairy), are to have an ADF under 30 (mine were 28.7 and 25.6), as well as an NDF of under 38 (mine were 36.3 and 32.7)

I took the samples from the hay in the stack.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> How many cuttings do you get a year Leadfarmer?


Well it depends a little bit, but from 8-10 cuttings a year depending on the conditions in the winter and our attitude by the time the last couple cuttings roll around. We could have hayed through the winter this year, a few guys around here did that, but the two week curing process really turned me off.

We will cut at least 8 times a year though.

View attachment 1928
View attachment 1929
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Here is a couple pics, none that I'm very happy about. Posted two pics of some hay sitting in the field and one pic of my swather tank set-up. I thought you guys might be interested to see that. The two big 100 gallons are for applying Malathion under the windrow. The 65 gallon above the front tire is for Dyna-Cure.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I had never heard of applying anything from the swather. Interesting. 8 cuttings wow. I'm ready to be done with hay after a 3rd cutting for the year usually.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> I had never heard of applying anything from the swather. Interesting. 8 cuttings wow. I'm ready to be done with hay after a 3rd cutting for the year usually.


We had never heard of it either, not until very recently! I have always been skeptical of products applied at the baler though. It was highly recommended to us by a man that we highly respect and trust. A smart man and a damn good farmer/businessman. His word was enough for me, and I ran it for the first time during my first cutting two weeks ago. It really performed well. I will definitely have extensive visual evidence next cutting, looking forward to exposing this product!

KeyAg Distributors

Yeah the long eight month cycle can get pretty grueling sometimes, especially when we have high hay acreage. No fun haying every two weeks for 8-9 months! We try to stay very diversified as well, so there is almost always something else going on, and of course, with our luck it's during hay cycle.

Of course, it's also awesome, for lack of a better word, to have something to do for so many months of the year. I love making hay, I have been so stoked to get this first cutting up, and sold. It has been a great month!


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

LeadFarmer...............what type of tank and sprayer setup is that? I like the idea. I wonder if I could rig something like that up for my pull type mower conditioner. I think I could both some nozzles on the back to spray the hay coming out of it. Wonder how well that would work? How is yours setup?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

LeadFarmer said:


> Here is a couple pics, none that I'm very happy about. Posted two pics of some hay sitting in the field and one pic of my swather tank set-up. I thought you guys might be interested to see that. The two big 100 gallons are for applying Malathion under the windrow. The 65 gallon above the front tire is for Dyna-Cure.


Malathion under the row?? I've heard of spraying a dissecant on the row while mowing to speed drying but never heard of spraying malathion while mowing. Explanation please.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer I take it from your post this is your first time with Dyna Cure. Please let us know if the results of your use are similar to what is posted on the keyag website. For 2nd cutting that is quite an advantage.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

LeadFarmer said:


> Well it depends a little bit, but from 8-10 cuttings a year depending on the conditions in the winter and our attitude by the time the last couple cuttings roll around. We could have hayed through the winter this year, a few guys around here did that, but the two week curing process really turned me off.
> 
> We will cut at least 8 times a year though.
> 
> ...


Great pictures! Would you be interested in trading a few acres of that flat ground for some nice rolling hills? All we would have to do is figure out how to get them on a truck and ship them to Illinois.

On the serious side, I didn't understand what you meant by the two week curing process. Are you saying it takes two weeks to get the hay dry after cutting it?

Also, why are you applying malathion under the windrow? I have never heard of doing that. Insects?

The haying process is really different from area to area. And I could really see how 8-10 cuttings a year would get to be a PITA.

Thanks

Ralph


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Malathion under the row?? I've heard of spraying a dissecant on the row while mowing to speed drying but never heard of spraying malathion while mowing. Explanation please.


The Malathion is for pest control! We noticed that in fields with an aphid presence they would of course all flock to the shade/canopy offered by the freshly cut hay. In order to save money and stop wasting material by spraying the entire field, we set-up a spray system to apply the chemical under the windrow. Our kill is outstanding and it saves us a pass from the spray plane!


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

CockrellHillFarms said:


> LeadFarmer...............what type of tank and sprayer setup is that? I like the idea. I wonder if I could rig something like that up for my pull type mower conditioner. I think I could both some nozzles on the back to spray the hay coming out of it. Wonder how well that would work? How is yours setup?


Thats an Eykamp Welding tank set-up. That's the local welding shop. He makes some great, super heavy duty equipment. He builds a subframe that sits over the frame rails beneath the engine. The subframe is slightly tapered so it doesn't slide. I'll get some good pics, I think I have some dark ones on my phone right now.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> Great pictures! Would you be interested in trading a few acres of that flat ground for some nice rolling hills? All we would have to do is figure out how to get them on a truck and ship them to Illinois.
> 
> On the serious side, I didn't understand what you meant by the two week curing process. Are you saying it takes two weeks to get the hay dry after cutting it?
> 
> ...


We are very spoiled here sir. I love this little valley!

Haha yeah I exaggerated a little bit, but I did have some hay sit in the field for 10-12 days trying to cure. On some of our heavier dirt we were still making well over 1.5 TPA that last cutting, and with the cold, wet (dew-y) winters here, it just will NOT dry! I waited 7 days to rake it the first time, then I flipped it at 10 days and tried to bale, NO WAY. Flipped it again and baled most of it at 11 days, and some at 12!!!

Malathion is for insects, you are correct!

I'm young and I love hearing stories about how different the haying process is. Even my Dad learns a new thing or two from what I read about on here!


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

View attachment 1933
View attachment 1932
View attachment 1934


There's a couple pics I took of the actual hay. Great pics!

I'll get up pics of the spray nozzle system later today or tomorrow!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer I have noticed also the aphids going under the windrow right away here as well. You say the kill is outstanding? Is it better then with the airplane? We only have to spray for aphids once a year usually right before 1st cutting . But they tell us to usually wait 7 days or so to cut after spraying. But you are laying the hay right onto the chemical? Are you worried about chemical residue being on the hay when you bale? With your method you don't have to worry about spray drift so much. I'm looking forward to seeing your nozzle pictures and such.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

Years ago when we chopped haylage we sprayed malathion between the chopper and the high dump wagon. It was very effective on alfalfa weevil. I have never figured a practical way of doing it on a round baler though. Mel


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Leadfarmer I have noticed also the aphids going under the windrow right away here as well. You say the kill is outstanding? Is it better then with the airplane? We only have to spray for aphids once a year usually right before 1st cutting . But they tell us to usually wait 7 days or so to cut after spraying. But you are laying the hay right onto the chemical? Are you worried about chemical residue being on the hay when you bale? With your method you don't have to worry about spray drift so much. I'm looking forward to seeing your nozzle pictures and such.


Our kill is much better than the airplane. I will never apply Malathion another way if I can help it. We will normally spray our first three cuttings for aphids, and it saves me the airplane pass each time. Pretty big deal!

We have never had any problems with the hay laying in the chemical. No one has ever complained, not even dairy people. Malathion is 0-days to harvest.

Another benefit is that I'm using much less material than the plane would, as I am only convering the area underneath the windrow, instead of the entire field.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

LeadFarmer said:


> Well it depends a little bit, but from 8-10 cuttings a year depending on the conditions in the winter and our attitude by the time the last couple cuttings roll around. We could have hayed through the winter this year, a few guys around here did that, but the two week curing process really turned me off.
> 
> We will cut at least 8 times a year though.


How many years avg do your fields last. just curious if it not going dormant effects its life span. great info thank you. Martin


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Nitram said:


> How many years avg do your fields last. just curious if it not going dormant effects its life span. great info thank you. Martin


We leave them in for 3 years. After that the stems get pretty big, may start to get dirty (weedy).

I normally sheep during the winter, and let the other guys cut year round.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

In theory an alfalfa stand will produce 30 cutting. I believe it was a California Forage Specialest who said that 25 years ago.

This takes some judgement though. Obviously in the northern limit in Canada that would be 20 or more years. 
In some of the irrigated Deserts of CA & AZ with their 9 or 10 cuttings a season DR Marble's figure might hold. 
Here maybe 20 cuttings is a good goal. I had one varietie persist through 11 full season.

With out irrigation we are happy with what we can get. Shoot for 20% CP, 30% ADF, & 40% NDF. No cow dairies left but the old 20-30-40 alfalfa fits the dairy goat needs.

Wish the California Alfalfa Symposium would include an Arizona conference location in their rotation.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

That stands to reason, years ago before dad put his fields to crp we used to rotate our fields between alfalfa wheat and milo. The alfalfa would last around 6-7 years while we would get 3-4 cuts per year depending on the conditions. This was fed to the cows and we didn't spend much on fertilizer except while planting, we did however have to spend money on the weevils/ aphids. I hope to get back into alfalfa and the info I am learning here is of great value thanks to all Martin


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