# when to double windrows?



## chewbacca2264 (Feb 11, 2009)

Hello,

A quick question to toss around, my father and I have a lingering difference in terms of raking and drying hay. We bale an 80% orchard grass 20% alfalfa mix for our alpaca's and llamas and sell hay to other alpaca folk and one horse farm. Small square bales in the 45-55lb range depending. We recently started using silo guard with an applicator on the baler and so far very happy with the result. Our problem has always been getting first cut dry in Upstate NY hence the applicator. Now to my question we rake with an old NH side delivery and have found that with the applicator we really need to double about 90% or our windrows to get consistent application. My father believes that it is always best to single rake, let the hay sit and then double it. This is a major PITA and takes up precious baling time. I personally think we should double rake and then allow the hay to sit in the larger windrows. If the hay is near baling range is there really an advantage to single raking the entire field, waiting a bit and then doubling windrows? I guess if there is I will just need to buy another rake!


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

I have the same problem with my father as well. We rake with tandem NH side deliveries with a hydraulic dual rake hitch. From what I gather you only rake with one rake so yes time is of the essence especially around here. Maybe wait a tad longer before raking so the hay is a little bit drier, then start with the second row of hay (or skip 8ft) and do that on every pass, in other words rake every other row until you get to the center, then reverse travel and push the hay that you skipped onto the hay that is already raked. This solves a few problems. The hay that you first flipped is now drying longer than the center so it will be that much closer to being dry, the hay in the center will have more moisture in it, but by the time you get to it, it will have dried as long if not longer than the first hay that was raked, making a more uniform dryness. There is nothing more frustrating than a NH rake trying to flip over an already raked windrow. Have you looked into rotary rakes? Or perhaps an inverter? We just picked one up, and it really does work nice, plus you can cruise right along with it as well. It helps if the hay on the bottom needs to be flipped, and NH has a tendency to rope the hay vs. fluffing the windrow, and getting the green on to the top consistently to dry is one of lifes little mysteries. Drying hay in NY, and New England is more of a challenge than in most areas with our short windows of weather, and lack of high heat and high humidity. I am sure others have the same problems as well. But by skipping every other row you will please your father, and kind of kill two birds with one stone. 
With the hydraulics system we use its much easier to single then double right before baling, because the rakes can move to either side of the tractor, yes it is time consuming, puts a lot of wear on your rakes but does make for decent hay most of the time. I hope I could help you a little.

Mike


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

We double rake everything. We adjust rakes and ground speed to what we need to flip. If we need to completely dry bottom we drive slow. If we need just a little air than we go faster. But I think our climate is drier than yours till this year. Now I am not sure never dealt with this kind of moisture.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

If the hay is in pretty good shape and needs a little drying that day rake doubles, triples or whatever you need, the drying is going to depend on what your weather is at the point you need to rake. If your hay needs alot of drying , rake in singles to let some air and sun to hit it, basicly to just get it of the ground and let some air threw. If its in good shape and the wind is blowing and sun out rake a good size windrow . You need to play around with it and see what works for you. Maybe you need a hay tedder, that might be another idea for you. THOMAS


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Most hay production is common since, climate specific, and dependant on the equipment you have available.

I sort of do as he says, but with different equipment. My favorite tool is a combination tedder rake. There are times I will set the outside basket to rake and the inside basket to work as a tedder. 
Leave that sit for a day and then rake with the machine set to full width. I usually bale this windrow the following day. 
The last day of curing it usually does not matter if the hay is spread out or up tight, trying to get that last 10% to 20% of surplus moisture out.

The methodology I employ is inappropriate for the California Low Desert, as well as the valleys of West Virginia. For different reason but still not completely valid. The laws of chemistry and biology are the same we just have to adjust for our local climate.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree with your father. If I understand you correctly, you would like to cut, and shorthly thereafter rake two windrows into one and then attempt to cure, relying on the silo guard to "cheat". Is that right?


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

We double windrow everything we can since it fits our "kee the baler full" mantra. We don't combine the windrows until we have substantial drying and we rake when we have dew on the hay to limit leaf loss.

We get funny looks from our neighbors when we head out to rake hay at 8 o'clock at night, but we are saving nutrients. It always baffles me when people are raking hay in the middle of the day with a cloud of nutrient dust trailing behind the rake.

We prefer to operate at a slow ground speed with a full baler so we can get consistency in bales size and weight rather than speeding across the field to make hay. By combining windrows you reduce the trips across the field with the baler and you are more efficient with your baler time.

Jim


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## C_Evensen (May 27, 2009)

chewbacca2264 said:


> Hello,
> 
> A quick question to toss around, my father and I have a lingering difference in terms of raking and drying hay. We bale an 80% orchard grass 20% alfalfa mix for our alpaca's and llamas and sell hay to other alpaca folk and one horse farm. Small square bales in the 45-55lb range depending. We recently started using silo guard with an applicator on the baler and so far very happy with the result. Our problem has always been getting first cut dry in Upstate NY hence the applicator. Now to my question we rake with an old NH side delivery and have found that with the applicator we really need to double about 90% or our windrows to get consistent application. My father believes that it is always best to single rake, let the hay sit and then double it. This is a major PITA and takes up precious baling time. I personally think we should double rake and then allow the hay to sit in the larger windrows. If the hay is near baling range is there really an advantage to single raking the entire field, waiting a bit and then doubling windrows? I guess if there is I will just need to buy another rake!


do you tedder first before you rake.....Chris....


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree with Wilson, the last 10 to 20% doesn't really matter on windrow size. If hay is going to cure it will. We have went from raking singles with a 9 ft. side delivery rake to raking 30 ft. swaths with a 14 wheel rake with really no difference in drying times. What we have done is to wait until the hay is drier to rake. The wheel rake allows this over a side delivery. If you put hay into the windrow before enough curing has been done, it will rope and possibly never cure out right even in a single windrow. Let the hay cure out and then rake with some dew moisture or when humidity is high to retain leaves. With our balers, I want as a big a windrow as possible, long way to go and a short time to get there!


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## chewbacca2264 (Feb 11, 2009)

rank said:


> I agree with your father. If I understand you correctly, you would like to cut, and shorthly thereafter rake two windrows into one and then attempt to cure, relying on the silo guard to "cheat". Is that right?


Sorry should have been more specific, we usually cut then ted at least once, sometimes with first cut we ted twice. I normally try to let the hay get good and dry on the ground before raking. Generally it is pretty close to baling and often we just want to get it up off the ground and get some air to it. Obviously if weather is threatening and we need to rake sooner I would only single it, then put together. I guess what I am asking is if the hay is close and just needs to cure that last little bit would it do it as well in a bigger windrow. By the sounds others have the same thought that I do if the hay is close what the heck does the size of windrow make? On another thought the weather in the east sucks, this is absolutely the pits for trying to get hay. Have just under 20 acres of the most gorgeous hay and the orchard is going to head and no breaks now for over two weeks. We managed to get a few wagons last week but had to bale in the 20's moisture wise because the forecast changed and rain was coming. Luckily the silo guard did its job, we spreak it out nice and loose for 48 hours and it sweated out and is absolutely beautiful hay. Still I would really like to avoid baling in the 20's again if possible, crossing my fingers for the middle of the week we may get a 3-4 day break and we might have to risk it. Thanks for all the replies, still trying to figure this hay making out.......kind of half science and half art!

Tim


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*kind of half science and half art!*


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

What about LUCK?


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## chewbacca2264 (Feb 11, 2009)

Good call may need to third it between art, science and luck!!



haybaler101 said:


> What about LUCK?


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