# Cheap parts or overpriced?



## Zeplin (Mar 10, 2018)

I have a Kioti DK65sc with a Perkins engine. Dealership parts prices are crazy. I needed an alternator and they wanted 1500, i got one for 89 and it cam in a Perkins box.

Now I need a fuel lift pump. Kioti wants 1500, i see them online for 83. Local diesel shop sells them for 385. Is this all mark up or might there be a quality difference in the pumps? I expect its all made in China. I don't mind paying for quality and reliability but I cant stand the thought of paying 15-20 times the price for the exact same part.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Its really hard to say but I can tell you I feel the same way. I like quality but I don't want to be the sucker that lines the middle mans pocket. My only insight would be to look at brand names and go with them over the China no names...


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I've had good luck with pricing/parts from here:

https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/parts-categories/tractor-parts/kioti-tractor-parts.html

Maybe you've already checked them out, if so sorry.

Larry


----------



## Zeplin (Mar 10, 2018)

Not much available through all state.

I am going to pull it off and go look at the locally available $385 pump, see how they match up.

i noticed in online picture that the mor expensive pumps are Matt while the cheap ones have a gloss finish to the plastic.

also a slight difference in how the electric hooks up. Even though they have he same part number.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Darn near any electric lift pump will do the job. Question will be if it will fit in place. If the $83 pump fits i would be trying it. Not out much to find out.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I wonder if OEM parts are much like when I was looking at a combination press brake/shear for my boiler install trailer.

Local welding shop said they are all made in one factory in China.

Stuff that passed highest in QC goes into the Daytons, Bailey's and possibly Jet.

Stuff that just barely passed QC goes to Harbor Freight.

The Harbor Freight model looks exactly like my Dayton, except the HF model had piss poor paint, voids in the castings, flash from the molds yet and just generally looked and felt like a cheap piece of chinese crap while my Dayton looks much better and has a smooth movement thru 360 degrees of the stroke.


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Now let's use our head! Do you REALLY think that a $83 fuel pump is built like the more expensive one and is going to do the same job as a $1,500?! It MAY do the job, how well who knows and for how long? What if that cheap pump damages you injectors that would really be a bargoon! I can see how, by eliminating middle men and shipping/duty if any, one could come down to around $500. Everyone should look at value for money, but I find a post like this one an insult to common sense!! :angry:


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Trillium Farm said:


> Now let's use our head! Do you REALLY think that a $83 fuel pump is built like the more expensive one and is going to do the same job as a $1,500?! It MAY do the job, how well who knows and for how long? What if that cheap pump damages you injectors that would really be a bargoon! I can see how, by eliminating middle men and shipping/duty if any, one could come down to around $500. Everyone should look at value for money, but I find a post like this one an insult to common sense!! :angry:


Conversely, common sense says pretty much no electric fuel pump should cost $1500. Lots of applications run $100 pumps.


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> Conversely, common sense says pretty much no electric fuel pump should cost $1500. Lots of applications run $100 pumps.


True and if a standalone I'd take a chance, but when daisychained to other things I'd be more cautious.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Genuine Perkins fuel lift pump filter combo is about 300$ at other dealers that fit Perkins engines. I suspect inefficient supply chain inflating the kioti dealer pricing.

The genuine Perkins part bought through Perkins level parts supply is about 100$ in uk. Same part less markup. Every place that touches a part likes to double the price in their formula for pricing, very easy for prices to climb exponentially for exact same part.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Trillium Farm said:


> Now let's use our head! Do you REALLY think that a $83 fuel pump is built like the more expensive one and is going to do the same job as a $1,500?! It MAY do the job, how well who knows and for how long? What if that cheap pump damages you injectors that would really be a bargoon! I can see how, by eliminating middle men and shipping/duty if any, one could come down to around $500. Everyone should look at value for money, but I find a post like this one an insult to common sense!! :angry:


Its a low pressure lift pump not an injection pump. No way in hell it could damage the injection pump.


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

carcajou said:


> Its a low pressure lift pump not an injection pump. No way in hell it could damage the injection pump.


Apologies, I misread it, I thought it was an injection pump  Let me join in with the others then!


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

carcajou said:


> Its a low pressure lift pump not an injection pump. No way in hell it could damage the injection pump.


Hmm, well the 5.9 Cummins had a bad habit of eating injection pumps if supplied with less than 5PSI from the charge pump, that was also a VP pump though.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The genuine Perkins lift pump does have a bad habit of sending bits of the lift pump into the main pump. There are sellers of an upgraded replacement with a mesh filter to catch any bits of the pump, I can’t put my fingers on the link unfortunately.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It’s hard to believe a lift pump of any type is $1500, That’s insane.....are you sure that wasn’t the high pressure fuel pump?


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

My brother a mechanic is overhauling a Perkins in my Euroleopard tractor, a made in China tractor. Lovel is the manufacturer in China of Perkins (Perkins is now owned by Caterpillar). Needed an overhaul kit as the motor had been dusted. Rang up Perkins parts suppliers right across Australia and all said "No parts, it is a Chinese Perkins". Standard reply even though it is a 1004 series Perkins.

So off to the importer of the tractor, the spare parts guy is Chinese. Gave the details of the tractor, model serial number etc and he reassured me a full overhaul kit including liners, would arrive with their next shipment, no freight as it would be put into their container that had room.

Parts duly arrived and rook them to the machine shop to have the liners fitted etc. Machine shop calls:

"Liners are no good, finished liners were supplied, we need semi finished liners".

The block was not perfectly round for finished liners to be fitted, 5 thousandths of an inch out of round so the block had to be re-machined to round and liners with too much meat on the outside (ie semi finished) machined to fit. Simple enough.

Back to the importer and in broken English I was told Lovel that made the Perkins, only supplies finished liners.

Back to the machine shop and the guy says the liners look to him like 236 Perkins so he will try one of them from an Australian supplier.

Next I heard he had got "genuine Perkins" liners to suit a 236 and they fitted perfectly.

What is moral of the story:

No moral, BUT the "genuine Perkins liners" came in a Lovel box and were made in China, and twice the price of the ones direct from China.

Go figure that one.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a 1004 and was told the same thing....idk how to tell, but that’s what a fella told me that was suppose to be in the know.....


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

My 93 Chevy dually diesel uses a electric lift pump, only supplies 7-9psi to the injection pump... A AC Delco is # Ep158 @ 50$ on rockauto, I just installed one on my JD2030, wired to the same wire that triggers the fuel shutoff in the injection pump, Works great and won't over pressurize the IP... and the one on the dually has been their for many many years and has many more hours pumping fuel than any tractor ever will...


----------



## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Parts quality is really a crapshoot nowadays. With all the outsourcing and off-shoring, even buying OEM or "name brand" is no guarantee of a quality part. That said, as a general rule, if it is an internal part, I'll probably pay the extra $$ for OEM or name brand.


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The 1004 motor comes as naturally aspirated and only about 50 HP to 65 hp, and several turbocharged versions pushing up to about 100 hp as well as marinised versions. To get more hp Perkins then go for the 1006 which is the 6 cylinder version.

Good motors and built very heavily but a busted air intake hose causes dusting very quickly and effectively.


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

There are so many versions of the 1004 you need ti find someone who knows parts and is not just a computer warrior. For example the gasket supplied for the front cover was incorrect even though series ad engine numbers were supplied. Engine has a hydraulic pump drive and gasket was for non-hydraulic drive model. Lucky Brother is old school and cut a gasket from gasket material.

Old school mechanics do tat and are not just parts assemblers.Parts supply is that way now the skill of new mechanics is too often dumbed down.

How many now can service and rebuild a differential rather than sending it to a transmission shop?

Brother is now in his 80's so near to losing all that skill and knowledge.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hate that for your brother and I am not near his age yet, but when I was much younger and money was much tighter, I traced and cut many gaskets back in my machinery repair days. I hate detailed wrenching so bad now that I am more than willing to pay an individual for my repair work when needed. Definitely other things that I enjoy much better now like growing gardens, flowers, fruit and nut trees, woodworking, and I still enjoy taking an overgrown piece of land and turning it into a productive thing of beauty. I guess what I am trying to say is that I like to be more creative at this stage.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Good to hear from you Mike. I have sold the farm, it was on the market 7 years and no offers to purchase. Believe it or not we then got 3 offers in the one weekend, one at full price and a cash buyer. Snapped that one up before he got away.

So fully retired now, but lots of things to do around the house (on 5 acres hence two tractors kept from the farm) and I am now planning the build of a new camper van on a pick-up truck or as we call it a "ute".

Built one a while ago as a long range remote tourer and it has been superb, with enough water and food for 3 weeks without re-supply, and enough fuel for over 1000 miles of 4WD off-road driving. We have some pretty remote areas in OZ and my wife and I want to explore some more of those areas.

Covid has stopped us going to the more remote areas because there is a travel ban on going to "First Nations" communities and in the very remote areas that there're no other settlements. We have also been restricted to Western Australia (WA), with State borders opening and closing as Covid appears in other States. But WA is 1 million square miles so there are opportunities to get out and about.

WA has not had any community transmission of Covid since April and our economy is going gang busters with the State Government bringing down a surplus Budget despite Covid relief/support payments to those businesses affected by Covid.

The News has just reported that Credit Card debt is the lowers for decades and savings are at the highest levels since the early 1970's.

My wife and I are in good health as are our children and grandchildren.

I do sometimes miss the hay season but then I think of the pressure with rain and chasing parts and repairs and get over it.

I have a 1937 Fargo coupe utility to restore, mt farmer bought it in 1946 upon being de-mobilised after service overseas in WW2. It is practically complete but the ravages of 25 years out in the weather it needs lots of work. Firstly however I need to finish a workshop to conduct the rest in. Waiting on the finished tractor overhaul to use to dig out the earthen area of the floor to instal concrete. End of march should be good.

An artist did some drawings of the ute. We have one original and one is a print. The Fargo was built in Canada on a Plymouth car base and exported to British Commonwealth countries as it got favourable terms of trade compared with the Dodge pickup built in the USA. The coupe body was built in Australia (Sydney) with the cabin lines almost identical to the Dodge Coupe car of the day. I have put a couple of the pics of our framed drawings up, upside down to you of course HA HA.

Keep well and all of my best wishes for 2021 to you and to the HT community.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Mine is a 1004T, I bought it used because it wouldn't meet standards in CA. They had taken them out of aircraft tugs....doesn't appear to have a lot of hours. I was going to put it in a manitou tele that was engineless....but when I went to install, noticed that my hydro pump wouldn't mount correctly and couldn't find one that would and still give required flow. So managed to find MOST of the parts for the original 1004 that was in the machine and rebuilt it, cost a small fortune but got it done. 
The biggest problem I've seen with the 1004 was the different metals on the cooling/timing cover. Causes a good bit of corrosion and eventually leaks into the engine. Very important to keep antifreeze levels right.....
Very dependable little engine tho.....I have one in a JCB tele as well, had to rebuild it too, same issue.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's a cool looking truck Kevin.....it does look like the Dodge of the day. 
I have a old truck (58 ford) that I have played around with over the years.....I need to get back on it and finish up. 
Hard to believe y'all have a booming economy during this time.....ours is stagnant with draconian lockdowns plaguing our way of life and our once robust economy.

Heres one for you.....345k dead from Covid, 1 million small businesses closed (most permanatly) due to the lockdowns. The damage to society is not measured only by the deceased.....


----------



## Zeplin (Mar 10, 2018)

$385 pump installed. Came in a Perkins box.

Maybe the 80 dollar pump would have worked, don't know. This pump was in stock locally so that is worth something.


----------



## Zeplin (Mar 10, 2018)

I was wrong about the price. It's more like 1800 Fromm the dealership.


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Coondle said:


> Good to hear from you Mike. I have sold the farm, it was on the market 7 years and no offers to purchase. Believe it or not we then got 3 offers in the one weekend, one at full price and a cash buyer. Snapped that one up before he got away.
> 
> So fully retired now, but lots of things to do around the house (on 5 acres hence two tractors kept from the farm) and I am now planning the build of a new camper van on a pick-up truck or as we call it a "ute".
> 
> ...


I guess because you are on the other side of the world everything is upside down looking from here ( your pictures ) LOL.... nice looking truck, look forward to seeing it finished...


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Zeplin said:


> I was wrong about the price. It's more like 1800 Fromm the dealership.


And we thought the govment prices were high... that's a rip off plan and simple...


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> That's a cool looking truck Kevin.....it does look like the Dodge of the day.
> I have a old truck (58 ford) that I have played around with over the years.....I need to get back on it and finish up.
> Hard to believe y'all have a booming economy during this time.....ours is stagnant with draconian lockdowns plaguing our way of life and our once robust economy.
> 
> Heres one for you.....345k dead from Covid, 1 million small businesses closed (most permanatly) due to the lockdowns. The damage to society is not measured only by the deceased.....


This is hi-jacking the thread and perhaps a new topic is needed under Chit Chat, someone more skilled than I can perhaps transfer the off-thread content.

SDD, Chrysler made the Dodge in the US and the Plymouth in Canada. Many parts were common but there were cosmetic differences. Chrysler also made vehicles under other names eg DeSoto and Chrysler Imperial. Each brand was aimed at a different market, different price points with different franchises.

On the Covid front, I Feel for your country with the economic damage and personal tragedies

We get considerable news coverage on events in the US.... bad news is always the headline.

We could not believe the casual treatment given Covid compared with our governments' response, both State and Federal, with bi-partisan involvement

. Sadly the US was like watching a slow moving shipwreck. The density of your cities and the bitter cold of your winter are no doubt factors that we do not have to contend with. Our worst outbreak, in Melbourne, was in the poorer part of the city with crowded living conditions and extended family groups.

I see that no-one is immune with some 8 politicians (all Republicans) succumbing: Luke Letlow, Herman Cain, Dick Hinch, Jerry Relph, David Arndall, Bill Bullard, Steven Farmer, and Nolan Mettatal. Does the media not report Democat Covid deaths?..

Our State Government went early and hard with shutdowns. Social distancing, business shutdowns, State border closures, and even regional border closures. I could not even travel (without permit) the 35 miles from my house to my farm. We railed against the restrictions but soon came to realise that the Covid was contained and in WA controlled.

Our situation is very different to the US in that our State has only about 5 (2 main) road crossings and one rail crossing to monitor/control and only 2 1/2 million people in an enormous land mass. Governments gave immediate generous financial support to businesses and individuals. Sometimes too generous causing some to stay on assistance rather than return to work. That is the worst of some of our brother humans. Those people who came over our borders were put into quarantine for 14 days at government expense either self isolating in their own home (own expense), in a mining camp or a city hotel depending on place of entry. Some mongrels broke the quarantine and if caught got jail sentences. Unfortunately some notably in Victoria broke quarantine and let the virus out into the community causing that State a prolonged lockdown and much greater economic harm.

In Western Australia, our lockdowns were relatively short, 3 months and that let me get a lot of work done about the house, and being short that soon allowed a lot of businesses to get back to work with many office types having to work from home.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Coondle

Yes Kevin, those old Plymouths had the most beautiful water fall grills of any truck out there. My neighbor has one(grill and sheet metal) sitting in his barn that I have been trying to buy. It needs some paint and re-chroming but it would be beautiful hanging on a wall....mine.

The US has fallen mightily. We no longer understand fiscal responsibility and our politicians are all the scum of the earth. This will not end well.

Sounds like your Ute project will keep you occupied waiting for your next adventure. Give the Mrs. my regards and stay healthy. I have laid pretty low over here and every single one of our children and grandchildren have been healthy so far. We personally know many folks whom have had the virus.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Vol said:


> Coondle
> 
> Yes Kevin, those old Plymouths had the most beautiful water fall grills of any truck out there. My neighbor has one(grill and sheet metal) sitting in his barn that I have been trying to buy. It needs some paint and re-chroming but it would be beautiful hanging on a wall....mine.


The Fargo bonnet emblem of the day was something else! It is a Globe of the world that even has the Falkland islands on it. Mine needs some rejuvenation and I hope with blue enamel (in lieu of paint) and chrome for the land masses. Many people who see the emblem say that I must NEVER leave the the finished product parked alone with the emblem on it. Some-one will think they need it more than I do !!!!



Vol said:


> .
> 
> The US has fallen mightily. We no longer understand fiscal responsibility and our politicians are all the scum of the earth. This will not end well.


I think it is a universal disease of politics with so many out to line their pockets and or the pockets of their friends. All too often politicians are caught out with corruption and underhand doings.

In my childhood it appeared some politicians were motivated by noble ideals or was it that they were not caught. Recently one orf our politicians was caught involved in a scam whereby vacant land (farmland) was purchased for the bargain basement price negotiated with skill and tenacity for $30 million. An independent valuation of the land commissioned by the Audit Office valued the land at under $3 million. That is some premium paid for by that State's taxpayers. To top it off that polly was in bed (literaly) with that Srate's Premier. Premier is roughly equivalent to a US State Governor. She (the Premier) denied all knowledge of the scam. Yeah I believe that and that there was no pillow talk.

Another scooping of hard working folks money in Australia, that rankles with me:

In the US working folk pay into superannuation for their support in retirement. That is paid to the government and the fund is Government guaranteed.

In Australia employers pay a % of payroll into employees' superannuation fund and employees can contribute too. Great idea, BUT. In Australia those funds are held by Banks, Life Insurance companies or specialist Super Fund managers. Those fund managers charge not small management fees and if their management fails the employees lose their superannuation. Quite literally the individual cantap into the fund and see the value of their "share" tis and fall with the vagaries of the share market. Some lose their entire investment if the fund managers run away with the money or their investments fail entirely. Some folks retire with a fund worth literally millions and have some scumbag cause catastrophic failure and los/steal the lot with no recourse. Badly flawed system.


----------

