# Dicamba 2017



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Successful Farmer.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agriculture.com/news/crops/where-dicamba-stands-for-2017


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I love it:

*"Although federal regulators in 2016 approved dicamba-tolerant soybean varieties under Monsanto's Roundup Ready 2 Xtend soybeans, they didn't approve dicamba formulations that match it."*

Your government at work.

Ralph


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Agree completely... It was GALACTICALLY stupid for the gubmint to approve dicamba bean seed for sale without the dicamba to spray on it LEGALLY. It's a SYSTEM and if the entire system wasn't ready, then it shouldn't have been sold.

That said, you'd think the seed companies would have had enough BRAINS to figure this out themselves... Instead, they CHOSE to sell those bean seed with that technology in there, trying to make the most bucks they could. They were irresponsible in that they STATED for anybody to see that the trait was in the seed as well, INVITING "off-label" applications of unapproved dicamba products... What did they THINK was going to happen?? "Oh, here ya go, we'll sell you dicamba tolerant beans, but don't think of spraying dicamba on them-- the gubmint hasn't approved the chemical yet, so *legally* you cannot spray them with dicamba"... (nod, nod, wink, wink) Yeah right...

That was the equivalent of throwing a juicy T-bone in front of a drooling dog and saying, "now Buster, here's this juicy T-bone, but the vet said you need to lose weight so you can't eat it..." WTF do you THINK is gonna happen in that situation?? Or handing a kid a sack of candy at 9 am and saying "well, Junior, here's a sack of candy, but Mommy said you can't have any until after supper..." We ALL know how that's going to end!

If the seed companies *had* to sell that seed simply because they needed to "use it up" or something to recoup their production investment and use up the inventory before it "went bad" or the germination fell off or whatever, they should have sold it WITHOUT ADVERTISING that it had the dicamba trait in it. If that wasn't possible because of issues with acceptance into certain grain channels at harvest, then they SHOULDN'T have sold it AT ALL, or only in markets where there weren't any grain segregation issues...

I see plenty of irresponsibility to go around... The seed companies were willing to wag a finger at the farmers they KNEW were buying this stuff with the intent of spraying it with dicamba *regardless of the regulatory status* so long as they were making a quick buck. Now folks are crying that their investment in this "badly needed technology" is at risk.

Again, WHAT DID THEY THINK WOULD HAPPEN?? Human nature is human nature and most people suck... they'll take any advantage they can regardless of whether it's legal or not, hurts their neighbors or not, etc...

Later! OL J R


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

In our area they sold 7000 acres worth last year and told the farmers you cannot spray dicamba on it. Everyone in this area followed the rules. Because that in essence was the label. This is a big thing my friend and it's not all the government's fault. The whole world thinks Farmers Never follow the label on herbicides. Guys are going to have to learn to follow the rules on this one


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

luke strawwalker said:


> Agree completely... It was GALACTICALLY stupid for the gubmint to approve dicamba bean seed for sale without the dicamba to spray on it LEGALLY. It's a SYSTEM and if the entire system wasn't ready, then it shouldn't have been sold.
> 
> That said, you'd think the seed companies would have had enough BRAINS to figure this out themselves... Instead, they CHOSE to sell those bean seed with that technology in there, trying to make the most bucks they could. They were irresponsible in that they STATED for anybody to see that the trait was in the seed as well, INVITING "off-label" applications of unapproved dicamba products... What did they THINK was going to happen?? "Oh, here ya go, we'll sell you dicamba tolerant beans, but don't think of spraying dicamba on them-- the gubmint hasn't approved the chemical yet, so *legally* you cannot spray them with dicamba"... (nod, nod, wink, wink) Yeah right...
> 
> ...


 No way in hell is that true. That is not the way people farm. That is a piss poor statement.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> No way in hell is that true. That is not the way people farm. That is a piss poor statement.


What's not true in your opin? He made a bunch of statements, most are very true.....


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> What's not true in your opin? He made a bunch of statements, most are very true.....


they'll take any advantage they can regardless of whether it's legal or not, hurts their neighbors or not, etc...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

endrow said:


> No way in hell is that true. That is not the way people farm. That is a piss poor statement.


Maybe folks in your area are better... maybe it's regional. Obviously your statement is not true EVERYWHERE; if it were there wouldn't be the tens of thousands of acres and dozens/hundreds of incidents of illegal applications made of unapproved dicamba damaging neighboring fields.

I've seen enough here locally over the years to back up my statement. I've had it happen to me, but I didn't see the point in involving a bunch of money grubbing gubmint regulators which would gain me nothing-- my crop was damaged and there was nothing those idiots could do about it, and I didn't see the point in poisoning relations with a neighbor just across the fence who'd been there for decades (and still is). Anyway, one time I tried to get a few gallons (less than five that I needed to apply on one small soybean field that was infested with stinkbugs) from a big farmer I used to know just over the county line. I drove over to his place and waited by his shop, since he was finishing up spraying a field in his new Deere hi-boy sprayer. When he finished, he drove up onto the concrete pad outside his barn beside where I parked. He crawled down, reached under the sprayer, and unscrewed the drain bung in the bottom of the tank, and allowed the last 40-50 gallons of cotton poison to run out on the concrete, forming a huge puddle that ran across the concrete and poured off into the grass not fifteen feet from his water well. He even had to turn back and fuss at his dog not to lap the stuff up as it was running across the concrete into the grass before he came over to talk... I was simply dumbfounded at the display of stupidity unfolding before my eyes... we always just made an extra pass around the field spraying the turn rows or whatever to get rid of any excess solution remaining in the tank, so it was applied out in the field... and we'd certainly never drain the stuff where it would run off right next to our water well! To top it all off, this guy sat on his county committee... IOW one of the guys in charge of 'enforcing the rules' on the rest of us lowly farmers... but I guess when you're in charge, rules are for other people...

Course this guy got a call from a little old lady who's house was across the road from a big field he rented, and she asked him to call her the day before he intended to spray those fields... she told him she understood that he needed to spray his crops, but she was chemically sensitive and wanted to be notified so that she could simply plan to drive into town and get her hair done or get lunch and go shopping or something while he sprayed his fields, and allow things to dissipate before she went home. He played all nice and told her he would, but then he went over the very next day and sprayed just to show her he could spray any time he wanted to without telling her...

Anyway, hopefully you don't have any guys like this around. But, in all probability, you do, even if you don't know it. The guy eventually went broke and his reputation was lower than alligator piss, but there's always another one lurking around... or two.

Like I said, most people suck... whether someone happens to believe it or not...

Later! OL J R


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I guess the Dairy Farmer part of me makes me almost jealous that you would insinuate many people go by beyond the rules. Shortly before I go to bed at night the milk truck back in the driveway and emptys the tank. Should I not follow the rules on antibiotics or quality for proper storage and cooling of the product,, before I wake the next morning the phone will ring and I will be informed I just contaminated an entire tractor trailer truck load of milk. They will ask how did would you like to pay for it check, cash or card.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Endrow, I think you nailed it, a dairy farmer has every load checked and is responsible for that product shipped (and mixed in with other's product). Whereas, if every farmer had to have each field checked, because it was mixed in with everyone else's product/crop (he being held responsible), he might have a different outlook. It is as different as apples and oranges in my eyes, completely different mindsets.

Larry


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The lawyers know the rules for what it takes to get a trait approved and trying to make them hold it back when it had been grown and readied for sale is asking for major lawsuits.



rjmoses said:


> I love it:
> 
> *"Although federal regulators in 2016 approved dicamba-tolerant soybean varieties under Monsanto's Roundup Ready 2 Xtend soybeans, they didn't approve dicamba formulations that match it."*
> 
> ...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

endrow said:


> I guess the Dairy Farmer part of me makes me almost jealous that you would insinuate many people go by beyond the rules. Shortly before I go to bed at night the milk truck back in the driveway and emptys the tank. Should I not follow the rules on antibiotics or quality for proper storage and cooling of the product,, before I wake the next morning the phone will ring and I will be informed I just contaminated an entire tractor trailer truck load of milk. They will ask how did would you like to pay for it check, cash or card.


Yeah, but there's "instant verification" of your actions and accountability. That's part of the dairy business.

It's a lot different mindset when folks think they can do anything because "nobody is going to know" and so they spray drift-prone dicamba on fields of beans illegally or do other such things, simply because they can... or they decide to roll the dice and see what happens...

Lots of folks have the attitude that if it drifts over and burns the other guy's crop, that's his tough luck. Probably the same type that will try to rent your own ground out from under you by undercutting you or offering relatives or landlords more money for your ground... "just because they can"... Like the guy I mentioned in the previous post did to his neighbors... (one of whom told me "that guy would slit his own mother's throat for another hundred acres!" after he tried to rent his land out from under him by going to his relatives and offering more money behind this guy's back).

Like I said, I've seen it all before. Maybe it's a different mindset where you're at, maybe it's the "instant verification" or highly regulated environment of the dairy business or whatever, but I can tell you this... IF "folks don't farm that way" WERE true *everywhere*, we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway... and the story of all the fields of burned up soybeans from neighbors illegally spraying their dicamba tolerant beans with unapproved dicamba formulations regardless of what harm it did to anybody else wouldn't even exist, because it wouldn't have happened. Since it DID happen, it's safe to say that for SOME folks, in SOME areas, the temptation to spray illegally regardless of the consequences were too great and their personal ethics were too small.

Best of luck! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

r82230 said:


> Endrow, I think you nailed it, a dairy farmer has every load checked and is responsible for that product shipped (and mixed in with other's product). Whereas, if every farmer had to have each field checked, because it was mixed in with everyone else's product/crop (he being held responsible), he might have a different outlook. It is as different as apples and oranges in my eyes, completely different mindsets.
> 
> Larry


Exactly...

How many times have we heard horror stories of various GMO traits in corn or other grains or crops that weren't approved for certain uses or markets that were *mistakenly* or negligently mixed in with other grain or delivered to the elevator and ended up causing anything from entire bins of grain to be condemned to full trade embargoes into Europe or other places?? Some of that was simply mistakes, sloppy bookkeeping, sloppy elevator segregation practices for non-approved or limited-approved grains, but some to be sure was farmers who said, "corn is corn, it all looks alike, screw it, I'll haul it to wherever I can get the most money-- it's their problem to figure out if they should take it or not or what to do with it afterwards..."

Later! OL J R


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

luke strawwalker said:


> Exactly...
> 
> How many times have we heard horror stories of various GMO traits in corn or other grains or crops that weren't approved for certain uses or markets that were *mistakenly* or negligently mixed in with other grain or delivered to the elevator and ended up causing anything from entire bins of grain to be condemned to full trade embargoes into Europe or other places?? Some of that was simply mistakes, sloppy bookkeeping, sloppy elevator segregation practices for non-approved or limited-approved grains, but some to be sure was farmers who said, "corn is corn, it all looks alike, screw it, I'll haul it to wherever I can get the most money-- it's their problem to figure out if they should take it or not or what to do with it afterwards..."
> 
> Later! OL J R


I really can think of anyone that would do that BECAUSE as a seed dealer, I feel it is my responsibility to inform a customer if a trait isn't approved somewhere, and my DSM will also make sure the customer is aware of repercussions of selling unapproved trained corn. In fact, my DSM worked for a different seed company a couple years ago, and he spent all harvest one year making sure customers were taking unapproved grain to a feed facility, not to the elevator. We also report to grain elevators if someone purchased unapproved trained corn so they watch for it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Like I said, I've seen it all before. Maybe it's a different mindset where you're at, maybe it's the "instant verification" or highly regulated environment of the dairy business or whatever, but I can tell you this... IF "folks don't farm that way" WERE true *everywhere*, we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway... and the story of all the fields of burned up soybeans from neighbors illegally spraying their dicamba tolerant beans with unapproved dicamba formulations regardless of what harm it did to anybody else wouldn't even exist, because it wouldn't have happened. Since it DID happen, it's safe to say that for SOME folks, in SOME areas, the temptation to spray illegally regardless of the consequences were too great and their personal ethics were too small.

Best of luck! OL J R 

I agree and apologize for my initial response .In area we are not all school girls ,but I thought we were trying to say all farmers would spray a volatile even if it would harm the neighbors crop .Saying all would include me and that made me mad, Saying Some woiuld Some did sounds better to me . A lot has to do in the way you were raised.We did alright in our life time have put together a nice operation debt free by 50 .But my wife would be the first to say if our personal ethics were a little smaller we would have more in the bank. I am sure all of us in someway will pay for this corrupt act by more difficult regs and rules.Ops now I screwed up not all of us just some of us , it wont affect all just some . The innocent will pay the price . .......... Or it could be that some did not understand I know everyone was trying to tell farmers what would happen with the Grazon P&D< and the people that screwed up in this area wrer not trying to break the rules they just did not understand .


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

stack em up said:


> I really can think of anyone that would do that BECAUSE as a seed dealer, I feel it is my responsibility to inform a customer if a trait isn't approved somewhere, and my DSM will also make sure the customer is aware of repercussions of selling unapproved trained corn. In fact, my DSM worked for a different seed company a couple years ago, and he spent all harvest one year making sure customers were taking unapproved grain to a feed facility, not to the elevator. We also report to grain elevators if someone purchased unapproved trained corn so they watch for it.


Well, a lot of those practices were "lessons learned" from the stupidity that happened a decade or so ago with the Europeans, IIRC, due to whatever trait they didn't like showing up in supposedly "segregated" corn (again, going from memory-- I remember the hoo-hah about it but not necessarily all the details... I DO remember it really lit a fire under everybody's backside to "get it right" from here on out and get serious about cleaning out machines, trucks, and being much more diligent about making sure the right grain gets to the right places...)

It was never an issue for me personally-- I only grew GMO cotton one year, didn't like it (wasn't worth the money IMHO) and didn't like the Nazi "grower agreement" terms so I grew regular cotton and then switched to all grain sorghum a few years later, and there is no GMO grain sorghum... BUT I knew some guys who played rather "fast and loose" with that sort of thing and figured it was up to the elevator to figure out what they were getting and where it should go, and if they screwed up or didn't know, well, their tough luck...

Later! OL J R


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

http://www.agprofessional.com/resource-centers/soybeans/stewardship-needed-dicamba-based-herbicides


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

IMHO, there needs to a complete revamp in usage labels.

Having usage directions written by lawyers is just plain crazy. I struggle to read the fine print, sort out all the legalese and obtuse wording to get to the information that I really need--How much per acre, per crop, per weed/insect controlled, per gallon, with mixing, with adjuvants, etc, in my area.

Make it simple, direct, understandable, in readable text size, so that every Tom, Dick and Harry can go: "Oh yeah, this is what I must do."

Not the BS: "It is a violation of Federal Law..."

BTW: Moderators---I'm surprised that "adjuvants" isn't in the spelling dictionary for a farming sight!

Ralph

It's early, I'm grumpy, more coffee.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

They say anyone that wants to use the product should I attend a training session


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