# Low-lig Alfalfa



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Limited availability for 2015 growers.....you early birds be sure and let us know about your results and findings.

Regards, Mike

http://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-types/alfalfa/lower-lignin-alfalfa-what-this-means-to-growers?utm_source=E-newsletters&utm_campaign=d9934e519c-101414_FG_Extra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ce73e33a7d-d9934e519c-87097801


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## lcjaynes (Jul 25, 2014)

I had someone question whether lower-lignin alfalfa would take more water if the cut window is extended. Good question.

So I asked one of the people who planted some of the test plots. His reply was: "Since the trials were done with the same water for application, and the yields were as good as other varieties, water use efficiency is similar. With the canopy closed and the phase of growth at a high rate from 28 to 35 days, water use efficiency is highest. Should result in more production per unit of water."


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It might be like low ligning corn . The cattle can eat more but the yields will be lower and stand ability will not be as good. Some do well with BMR corn but on our lighter drought tolerant soils it never did well. Any time you ask the reps about yield or stand ability they say should be similar


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

My concern is lodging....and that may be a over-react but I still am going to let someone else find out about the reality of this variety.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Vol said:


> My concern is lodging....and that may be a over-react but I still am going to let someone else find out about the reality of this variety.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I asked them about lodging.Their response was that with any alfalfa you run more risk of lodging the later it stands and getting a heavy rain/wind event.Also that it gives you a bigger window to cut higher quality hay because the quality doesn't start dropping so fast.

With todays disc mower/cond not a big of issue as it used to be,picking up lodged hay.

I do have it available for sale.I am a distributor for Alforex Seed


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I will be interested to see what the Pest Resistance will look like.

I do not wish to loose any of the pest resistance I have with WL 354 HQ.

I would appreciate the wider window for harvesting.

I am not interested in any RR trait, Not for an extra premium price, and/or restrictions.

HERE we have our July cutting stop growing and go to seed.

Then the seedlings can and do survive in an established stand, weed compition Yes, but No Autoxicity with alfalfa.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I am now thinking the low lignin alfalfa will out perform the hybrid alfalfa.

If this new offering seed cost less than the hybrids it will be a game changer.

Seed breeding the old fashion way still works.

Here at least alfalfa survives random round up applications. With selective breeding the RR game may become so yesterday.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Here's low-lig polling results from Progressive Forage Grower.

Regards, Mike

http://www.progressiveforage.com/news/poll/poll-online-readers-will-wait-for-more-lower-lignin-alfalfa-data


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Pioneer guy says there RL alfalfa.. reduced lignin..there eventually will be a technology fee for the trait $100 to $140 per bag


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Folks might be more reluctant to spring for RL alfalfa with a tech fee.....RR alfafalfa is tough enough, but it is definitely worth it in some areas.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Dairyman here will pay the tech fee if it makes milk , But the talk I here most will hold out to see what it does in standability


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> I will be interested to see what the Pest Resistance will look like.
> I do not wish to loose any of the pest resistance I have with WL 354 HQ.
> 
> I would appreciate the wider window for harvesting.
> ...


Define NO AUTOXICITY with alfalfa


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## lcjaynes (Jul 25, 2014)

http://www.progressiveforage.com/news/industry-news/gmo-trait-for-low-lignin-alfalfa-deregulated

The low-lig RR alfalfa is now deregulated. Seed production to begin 2015.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Define NO AUTOXICITY with alfalfa

Autotoxicity for alfalfa may not be the correct scientoific word but it is usually mentoioned for when alfalfa seedlings never get a start in life when toxins from old, more than a year old. kill off the seedlings. I hAve been told so by 4 for sure State Forage Specialest insist that is true. My problem is my lying tell me that HERE seedling alfalfa plants in old stand alfalfa do survive for a number of seasons.

I suspect this is due to our hot summer sun with our annual summer drought kills the toxic effect found in out summer. Annual summer Drought. With out irrigation we only see a Late March cutting, usually an early May cutting. and a late June cutting. The regrowth alfalfa only gets to 8" tall then goes into a summer drought dormancy. We see blooms and seed set over July and August. Our Labor Day rains promote's good growth in September and we have an October Cutting, with some volunteer seed in the cutting. Starting this season I over seeded this 2015 summer plow out field with a August planted winter wheat in August, Followed by plowing out after the June wheat harvest, to a pure stand a clean field planting of radishes.

That radish planting will be gone in April. In July that field will be plowed out to be planted to a fully prepared field of alfalfa. Then 5 years in alfalfa before starting the cycle again.

I am sure I will think up other modifications before I retire in three years plus a few years as an unpaid advisor. Then I will try to get three maybe four Masters Thesis published by before I turn 95 or 98 in 13 to 16 years.

I am not worried about the producers I just do not believe our Forage Specialest know as much as they should. At least for the soil type and climate found here in the Central Texas Blacklands.

Very few in the Eastern Humid climate & lower CEC soil types understand Hay in the Arid West, & Heavy clay high CEC soils, that are both calcareous and high shrink clay soils.

After all, I learned a lot form the Humid East over the years.

By then Your Marvin Hall will be retired.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

lcjaynes said:


> http://www.progressiveforage.com/news/industry-news/gmo-trait-for-low-lignin-alfalfa-deregulated
> 
> The low-lig RR alfalfa is now deregulated. Seed production to begin 2015.


Heard a special promotional price on RR/LOW LIGNING Alfalfa seed.$600 ..... That is a promotional price


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

I tried 40 acre of Hygest 360 low lig this spring. At this point I would not pay any extra for low lig seed. Overhyped in my opinion.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I can't get a straight answer on "tread tolerance" from either of my dealers..Nor an answer on drought tolerance to where I MAKE them stand behind their product.....Is this technology (besides dairy) worth it for standard feed hay (horses)....Kinda like the dicamba thing ...LOOK OUT , China WON'T buy it !!! So I'm hesitant to plant my last 50 acres with it this fall. Am I over cautious ???


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

endrow said:


> Pioneer guy says there RL alfalfa.. reduced lignin..there eventually will be a technology fee for the trait $100 to $140 per bag


Pioneer will find a way to charge YOU to drive YOUR tractor !!!!! BUMS !!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Lucky I will not be selling to China, but I would be interested in if the horsey people would pay more, that is my major market. Around here they do not look at quality much, you could almost spray paint straw green and they would pay top dollar, verses anything sun bleached. I know of a couple of them, that have plugged every knot hold in the barn to keep from bleaching baled hay (via sun light through the hole) over the winter.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Low LIG is for the dairy market. No advantage to horses.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Autotoxicity.

Is that is with alfalfa is old stand alfalfa produces a toxin that can kill young seedling alfalfa. It is a soil born toxin.

It is nothing unique. The plant Curly Dock will kill most plants trying to grow close to the Curly Dock plant or seedling.

I see sunflowers will have a clear soil area with nothing else growing in a clump of sunflowers.

It has nothing bad for animals eating the plants.

Rumor has it Curly Dock will relieve bloat caused by an animal eating bloat causing forage.

Kind of like the wild stories spread about the Blister beetles poisoning.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I agree low lignin alfalfa will be of little value to the casual horse owner.

But then any alfalfa is a poor choice for the casual horse owner.

If the owner's hobby is feeding horses then a clean grass hay works just fine.

A number of ranches that still use horses to work cattle their horses eat the same forage as the cattle. Now a mare with a baby at her side can find a use for alfalfa. For a few months anyway.

People over feed their pets. !!


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I sell 80% of my alfalfa/orchard to the horse racing industry (those horses need it) But as a guy said in a previous post some of those pleasure horse buyers will flat "pony" up $6.50 40lb bale of green ! Then can't and still won't figure out why their horse is bouncing off it's stall ! Bless em ! Beats takin worthless corn/beans to the elevator !!


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Old topic of Low Ligning alfalfa. We didn't try any yet but our nutritionist tools the other day on the seeding year the stuff look good. On a second-year for a basic Forge test the numbers look great on paper including good rfv. But he says the stuff isn't making milk and what they're finding in the invitro type testing. Once in the second year of crop production for some reason to low lig stuff has very poor digestibility... I'm guessing this is just what their firm is finding and it is not documented research


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