# Low sugar hay



## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

http://www.extension...nd_pastures.pdf I was looking for info on low sugar hay and found this on Google. Seems to be more interest in this lately from some of my customers with older horses. Comments?


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

I HAD a local customer that was spouting off about diabetic horses and how you should mow horsey hay first thing in the morning before the sugars can build up in the stalk. I barely got my money from her and I have a neighbor who she might still owe money so I pretty much cut ties and haven't really thought about it since.


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Latest and greatest thing the Pony Princesses are on about. Whatever sells........Tell them it's GMO with sweet and low bred into the plant, sprayed with Diet Coke and fertillized with foiliar insulin. There still gonna bitch about the price.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayguy said:


> http://www.extension...nd_pastures.pdf I was looking for info on low sugar hay and found this on Google. Seems to be more interest in this lately from some of my customers with older horses. Comments?


Be prepared for your customers to comment on any low sugar hay that you might produce...." you know, my horses don't eat your hay like they used to".....well guess why. Produce a consistently good product and you will weather the test of time.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayguy said:


> http://www.extension...nd_pastures.pdf I was looking for info on low sugar hay and found this on Google. Seems to be more interest in this lately from some of my customers with older horses. Comments?


The answer lies within the content you referenced....

"Unfortunately there are no "silver bullet" grasses that are consistently low in sugar. Most cool- season grasses, like as orchardgrass and fescue, can have high sugar content. Timothy and crested wheatgrass tend to be medium in sugar content, as are most warm season grasses. "

Regards, Mike


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

We have had several customers asking for low sugar hay, and we will allow them to take forage samples for testing. I perfer them to take sample but we will.I have found that the more mature the hay was at harvest, usually lower sugar but not always.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Guess sweet feed is out of the ? I think the next time I have a field that I have to cut in the early a.m., we'll market as "lean Bermuda grass". That will give us a gamut of choices, high quality Bermuda grass, lean Bermuda grass, and prewashed (rained on, shhhhh) Bermuda grass. Sell the later two for a premium







. I love these kinda reports, a new way to market my grass.......


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

When it's necessary to feed low sugar hay to manage the nutrition of horses diagnosed with laminitis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), or a number of other conditions, soaking hay in water is a common strategy. Hay soaking usually takes 30 minutes in warm water or 60 minutes in cold water to lower the carbohydrates. If you have horse owners looking for "low sugar hay" you are either dealing with neurotic idiots or someone who is too lazy to soak a flake of hay prior to feeding.

There is not much you can do with either, but if they have money, offer to produce a special batch for them at a premium price and let it get rained on.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

General rule for horse-owners: The louder they talk, the less they know.

IMHO, horse nutrition is not very well understood. I go by the "natural" horse diet. They eat grass, not alfalfa, usually pretty poor quality, in the range of 5-7% CP. They ingest up to 20#'s per day and graze 18-20 hours/day. They will sometimes founder (it's called grass founder) in the spring when plant sugars are peaking at about 11% CP. They like a variety of feeds, but. of course like kids, they'll go for the candy before they go for the vegetables.

They have a biological need to chew and to keep their intestines cycling product. They need to move around to allow their intestines to work properly. Their instinct is to feed on the tender plant shoots normally because that's the best quality and that is why they tend to create "lawns" (areas in a pasture that are overgrazed while other areas are untouched).

Most horses are over-fed, over-weight and under-utilized.

Feeding them high-quality hay is often like giving a kid candy bars and sodas for their meals--they get sugar highs and start jumping out of their skin. Then the owners stick them in stalls for 22+ hours/day and wonder why the have behavioral problems.

Just my thoughts--To quote Randy Newman (Monk theme song): "I might be wrong. But I don't think so."

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Most horses are over-fed, over-weight and under-utilized.
> 
> Feeding them high-quality hay is often like giving a kid candy bars and sodas for their meals--they get sugar highs and start jumping out of their skin. Then the owners stick them in stalls for 22+ hours/day and wonder why the have behavioral problems.
> 
> ...


Yup. Every once in a while I'll have somebody call asking if I have horse quality 3rd or 4th cutting round bales, I answer nope and hang up. First of all they don't need that rich of feed, not even if they are actually working like the amish use em for. Secondly I'm not gonna deal with somebody that doesn't know better. I could possibly see limit feeding half a flake of high quality hay, but not a round bale. My Great Grandfather never fed his work horses near the quality of feed that the milk cows got, but when he was working them he might give them a little extra oats and a small ear of corn.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I had a gal that wanted the best 3rd cutting alfalfa i had.I got there with skid loader and she wanted a bale put in bale feeder.I asked her if she realy wanted me to do that.Yep she did.So thats what i did.Brought he hay like that for a few yrs during the winter.It's what she wanted so thats what I did.And she always gave me a $50 tip!!!One of the few good horse customers that I've had!!!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Here is the straight scoop.

I know a lady in Colorado who has two horses that tend to founder*.* A Mare and her colt.

It is a real problem in that these horses produce too much insulin. When fed a little carbohydrates they flood their system with insulin. 
The trouble comes from too much insulin rather than too little. The insulin causes the blood vessel to contract, and they contract first in the extremities, cutting off circulation to the hoofs. This feels to the horse as uncomfortable as ye do when "a foot goes to sleep" due to a loss in blood circulation.
Eventually the hoof died and falls off, Not Good, Not Good at All !
This lady limit grazes these two horses, and gives them only grass straw to eat the other 19 hours of their grazing day.
*In short it is not a Diabetes Problem, just the opposite, too much insulin in their system. !*
For a fee she might will add to this.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

I had a customer buy 2 4x4 4th cut alfalfa rounds off me the other day for her 8 hay burners. A friend of hers called me the next day looking for the same. I warned that it wasn't great horse quality as it was a bit stalky due to a late cut because of rain, she said "oh, it mustn't be that bad, my friends horses have eaten both them bales to the ground"!! I said WTH?! I'm surprised the horses aren't on the ground with their legs in the air!! The horses aren't in work at all either I might add!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

askinner,

Your are relatively close to my Most Distant First Cousin, Bruce Cawley of
BundaLong Victoria. Retired Australian School Teacher. The boy hates cold weather as much as I.

Horse Owners are a notional bunch when it comes to horse feeding. Far more notional than their horses are.
Rough alfalfa is not all that bad for a horse, it is the good dairy quality that everyone seems to want that is not all that good for a horse. A horse that has little activity & not breeding. 
The reason some horse owners want alfalfa cut in the bud stage is to preclude blister beetle problems.

Here, the Stripped Blister Beetle emerges in Mid June. That is at the end of our Spring haying season and after the second or third cutting. That third cutting is usually a lighter cutting and does not need conditioning, so I cut it with a simple mower bar. Our July and August cuttings are nothing due to our Annual Summer Drought. With our fall rains we might get another cutting after the beetles have all reproduced and died of old age.

So alfalfa cut at close to full bloom of later will yield well but not have the protein or energy desired for a dairy herd. Be good for a sheep man who grazed out his pasture and wants to keep a few around for another year


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

I am no fan of the cold either, though I call 15*c (59F) cold, but your cousin is in the worst possible state to be a cold weather hater, that place gets snow!

The horsey folk can be challenging at times, my Mother is a horsey person, and I was only at the folks place today, to receive a feedback that my hay has caused one of her horses to founder! Of cause this was in jest, but I asked what she was now feeding him, the reply was just grass hay ( as opposed to my alfalfa). I enquired what grass, to which the reply was "oh, not sure, I saw some clover in there"! I said you best be soaking that hay!!

I have read with fear on here about them blister beetles, we are fortunate not to have them, but I have read we are in trouble if our customs boys let their guard down. The biggest challenge we have is no rain, I have alfalfa that is at 25 days since the last cut that the irrigator has missed, on fence lines that is still the same height as cutting. Under the irrigator it is beginning to lodge. I have no idea how folk down here make dryland hay







We have had repeated 114* days here the last few weeks, with some bad fires to go with it.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I just got this in my mail box....

http://www.thehorse....aign=01-21-2013


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Mike120 said:


> I just got this in my mail box....
> 
> http://www.thehorse....aign=01-21-2013


Interesting. Thank you

Ralph


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

Mike120 said:


> I just got this in my mail box....
> 
> http://www.thehorse....aign=01-21-2013


That makes me kinda sad after pumping all that pota$$ium into my alfalfa, only to have it leached into a bucket of water... I might offer a core return program as the tractor companies do on remanufactured parts, you bring my potash back, I'll give you a discount on your hay


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

Normally, I'd be real happy to sell these folks "prewashed" hay, but last year with the drought that wasn't even an option. Soaking the hay irks me almost as much as seeing them feed the hay in the dirt after all the pains we take to put it up dust free.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

Hayguy said:


> Normally, I'd be real happy to sell these folks "prewashed" hay, but last year with the drought that wasn't even an option. Soaking the hay irks me almost as much as seeing them feed the hay in the dirt after all the pains we take to put it up dust free.


Yep, you're spot on there, though it is humbling to hear their diners have eaten it to the ground and not left a scrap or used it as a toilet







Makes a nice change from "I found a weed in one of those 50 rounds I bought off you, I think I should have a discount on the next lot"! Funny thing is with this dry weather, I don't hear anyone complain one little bit anymore, most are happy to find hay!
Next time someone complains about dust, tell em you'll try and get them some hay that doesn't come from the ground next time


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