# Straight timothy hay



## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Does anyone feed straight Timothy to their horses or cattle? Most people in my area use a heavy mix of timothy (20%) and alfalfa (80%). Just wondering how your livestock take to just timothy hay? Any thoughts/comments are greatly appreciated.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Timothy is known as the "horseman's hay". The most serious problem I've had with it is that a stand doesn't last very long because it is susceptible to traffic. I usually plant a timothy/OG mix but the timothy is gone in about 2-3 years.

I am considering planting a pure timothy field this fall because it matures around June 15th as opposed to May 15th for OG due to the goofy springs we've been having the last 5 years or so.

Ralph


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## Popnson04 (Nov 12, 2019)

i agree with rjmoses that timothy disappears after three or so years. We do always add a couple of pounds to our hay mix as it does provide good tonnage on the first cut. I have had pure timothy fields in the past by buyer request, but in out area there will be no second cut of the crop, much unlike OG


rjmoses said:


> Timothy is known as the "horseman's hay". The most serious problem I've had with it is that a stand doesn't last very long because it is susceptible to traffic. I usually plant a timothy/OG mix but the timothy is gone in about 2-3 years.
> 
> I am considering planting a pure timothy field this fall because it matures around June 15th as opposed to May 15th for OG due to the goofy springs we've been having the last 5 years or so.
> 
> Ralph


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Madmetals said:


> Does anyone feed straight Timothy to their horses or cattle? Most people in my area use a heavy mix of timothy (20%) and alfalfa (80%). Just wondering how your livestock take to just timothy hay? Any thoughts/comments are greatly appreciated.


RJ Moses is right! But if must have alfalfa the % ought to be inverted 20% alfalfa and 80% timothy.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

rjmoses said:


> Timothy is known as the "horseman's hay". The most serious problem I've had with it is that a stand doesn't last very long because it is susceptible to traffic. I usually plant a timothy/OG mix but the timothy is gone in about 2-3 years.
> 
> I am considering planting a pure timothy field this fall because it matures around June 15th as opposed to May 15th for OG due to the goofy springs we've been having the last 5 years or so.
> 
> Ralph


Ralph, thanks for the info. What state are you located? Reason I asked my question is, I planted a 80% alfalfa/ 20% timothy mix (what horse people like around NW Ohio). All mixes and fertilized by local seed company, we floated it on at their settings. Planted last fall, the stand looked good, going into winter. Early spring I noticed almost no alfalfa. Field manager was zero help! Now ready to harvest it is almost 99.9% timothy.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Trillium Farm said:


> RJ Moses is right! But if must have alfalfa the % ought to be inverted 20% alfalfa and 80% timothy.


Most people around nw ohio plant a more alfalfa rich mix. 60-80% alfalfa. I do not know anyone near me who feeds their horses straight timothy, its always a alfalfa heavy mix.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm in NE Ohio, we sell only grass hay to horse people. If I have much alfalfa in it they don't want it. Maybe just different people.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

HayMike said:


> I'm in NE Ohio, we sell only grass hay to horse people. If I have much alfalfa in it they don't want it. Maybe just different people.


Must be something to do with the area and maybe kind of a word of mouth thing generations have passed down. No idea. But almost everyone I know with horses uses heavy alfalfa mix. Crazy to think about all the different varieties of hay...


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## Popnson04 (Nov 12, 2019)

Madmetals said:


> Ralph, thanks for the info. What state are you located? Reason I asked my question is, I planted a 80% alfalfa/ 20% timothy mix (what horse people like around NW Ohio). All mixes and fertilized by local seed company, we floated it on at their settings. Planted last fall, the stand looked good, going into winter. Early spring I noticed almost no alfalfa. Field manager was zero help! Now ready to harvest it is almost 99.9% timothy.


I am located here in central ohio, we put out three new fields last year and the new seeding alfalfa must have a hard spring because you can barley notice it. The second cutting that has about three weeks growth is showing a very strong presence of Alfalfa, My suggestion is make your first cut and see how well the alfalfa grows back, guessing you will be quite happy


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## Popnson04 (Nov 12, 2019)

Popnson04 said:


> I am located here in central ohio, we put out three new fields last year and the new seeding alfalfa must have a hard spring because you can barley notice it. The second cutting that has about three weeks growth is showing a very strong presence of Alfalfa, My suggestion is make your first cut and see how well the alfalfa grows back, guessing you will be quite happy


If it helps any our mix is 2lbs timothy 6lbs OG, 2 lbs alksite clover, and 16 lbs coated alfalfa


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Popnson04 said:


> If it helps any our mix is 2lbs timothy 6lbs OG, 2 lbs alksite clover, and 16 lbs coated alfalfa


That mix is interesting. Here if you even mention the word clover the hay is no good, especially if white clover.

Our mix is 7 Timothy, 7 Orchard Grass, 3 Smooth Brome, 3 Red clover. Never know what your going to get. One year new seeding came in straight Orchard Grass. Last year new seeding came in straight Timothy so thick I plugged the discbine. That made beautiful sweet hay wrapped bales due to weather. This year new seeding thick clover mixed with Timothy. You could count the individual orchard grass heads when you mowed. That ended up as baleage.


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## mstuck21 (Oct 4, 2019)

It takes a certain customer, but the ones who know what it is keep coming back. I’m in Illinois too, just south of Ralph.

I make about 2k bales of straight Timothy a year .. all horse customers .. built up a little contact list over the last couple of years and have most of it spoken for just with a few calls.

I have one lady who buys nothing but straight alfalfa for her 8 horses. Don’t ask me why, that’s what she wants so that’s what I sell. When I ran short between cuttings she took some Timothy home and said her horses don’t care for it. I said well you have been feeding straight chocolate and now you switched them to a plate of broccoli so I can see why they aren’t real impressed lol. Another gal who feeds mainly grass hay and a little alfalfa mix will take 300 Timothy no questions asked. All depends on the customer.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Popnson04 said:


> I am located here in central ohio, we put out three new fields last year and the new seeding alfalfa must have a hard spring because you can barley notice it. The second cutting that has about three weeks growth is showing a very strong presence of Alfalfa, My suggestion is make your first cut and see how well the alfalfa grows back, guessing you will be quite happy


We missed our window to cut last week, hopefully end on this upcoming week. As I walked the whole field and pull back the Timothy, I see no alfalfa. I hope your right and it comes back strong for second cut. Thanks for the info!


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

mstuck21 said:


> It takes a certain customer, but the ones who know what it is keep coming back. I’m in Illinois too, just south of Ralph.
> 
> I make about 2k bales of straight Timothy a year .. all horse customers .. built up a little contact list over the last couple of years and have most of it spoken for just with a few calls.
> 
> I have one lady who buys nothing but straight alfalfa for her 8 horses. Don’t ask me why, that’s what she wants so that’s what I sell. When I ran short between cuttings she took some Timothy home and said her horses don’t care for it. I said well you have been feeding straight chocolate and now you switched them to a plate of broccoli so I can see why they aren’t real impressed lol. Another gal who feeds mainly grass hay and a little alfalfa mix will take 300 Timothy no questions asked. All depends on the customer.


Great to hear about selling straight Timothy, I was kinda worried. Like I said around me they like that alfalfa mix. Thanks for the response!


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

IH 1586 said:


> That mix is interesting. Here if you even mention the word clover the hay is no good, especially if white clover.
> 
> Our mix is 7 Timothy, 7 Orchard Grass, 3 Smooth Brome, 3 Red clover. Never know what your going to get. One year new seeding came in straight Orchard Grass. Last year new seeding came in straight Timothy so thick I plugged the discbine. That made beautiful sweet hay wrapped bales due to weather. This year new seeding thick clover mixed with Timothy. You could count the individual orchard grass heads when you mowed. That ended up as baleage.


Same here, any clover and it's a no no. Now I'm wondering if my alfalfa doesn't come in, should I over seed with orchard grass? Thanks for the reply


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Madmetals said:


> Ralph, thanks for the info. What state are you located? Reason I asked my question is, I planted a 80% alfalfa/ 20% timothy mix (what horse people like around NW Ohio). All mixes and fertilized by local seed company, we floated it on at their settings. Planted last fall, the stand looked good, going into winter. Early spring I noticed almost no alfalfa. Field manager was zero help! Now ready to harvest it is almost 99.9% timothy.


I'm in Illinois, northwest of St. Louis.

Most people around here are having significant problems with alfalfa due to insects and stand longevity. Typically, they are shying away from it.

Ralph


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The only clover that causes a problem for horses is alsike which causes them to slobber. Many uneducated people think their horse has contracted rabies.

Ladino, red, etc. are OK.

Ralph


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

rjmoses said:


> I'm in Illinois, northwest of St. Louis.
> 
> Most people around here are having significant problems with alfalfa due to insects and stand longevity. Typically, they are shying away from it.
> 
> Ralph


I wonder about seed quality? Other plots within a few miles of me have a great stands of 100% alfalfa. I'll have to wait and see...


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

If you're alfalfa don't come in you may want to think about some teff that way you can still produce a lot of good quality horse hay.
Just my thoughts.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

From what I have noticed here on an incidental basis, alfalfa is becoming a problem also. Gets real spotty real fast. Then you have a half a stand and are wondering what to do since you can't thicken with alfalfa overseeding. Timothy has already been a problem, and orchard grass is constant maintenance. Back to the original theme of this thread, if I could raise straight timothy consistently, I would. Had to give up multiple customers back in my higher production time that were straight timothy people. Had beautiful timothy from 2004-2010. Go figure.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Swv.farmer said:


> If you're alfalfa don't come in you may want to think about some teff that way you can still produce a lot of good quality horse hay.
> Just my thoughts.


Teff over orchard grass?


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Hayman1 said:


> From what I have noticed here on an incidental basis, alfalfa is becoming a problem also. Gets real spotty real fast. Then you have a half a stand and are wondering what to do since you can't thicken with alfalfa overseeding. Timothy has already been a problem, and orchard grass is constant maintenance. Back to the original theme of this thread, if I could raise straight timothy consistently, I would. Had to give up multiple customers back in my higher production time that were straight timothy people. Had beautiful timothy from 2004-2010. Go figure.


I have a great stand of Timothy, maybe it's for the best if the alfalfa does not come back. Much appreciated.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Two things- don't scalp it, use high stubble shoes if possible. We have to spray in may here for mites. Sevin. No sevin, and the mites will wipe it out in a heartbeat.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

Hayman1 said:


> Two things- don't scalp it, use high stubble shoes if possible. We have to spray in may here for mites. Sevin. No sevin, and the mites will wipe it out in a heartbeat.


Thank you Hayman1!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Swv.farmer said:


> If you're alfalfa don't come in you may want to think about some teff that way you can still produce a lot of good quality horse hay.
> Just my thoughts.


I tried teff several times here and had serious problems getting it dry because I live between the Mississippi and Illinois rivers where the humidtiy seldom gets below 50% and typically reaches 90% overnight. Teff tends to re-absorb moisture overnight.

My neighbor uses it for pasture and loves it.

Ralph


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hayman1 said:


> Two things- don't scalp it, use high stubble shoes if possible. We have to spray in may here for mites. Sevin. No sevin, and the mites will wipe it out in a heartbeat.


Are you talking about timothy and mites? 

Ralph


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Madmetals said:


> Same here, any clover and it's a no no. Now I'm wondering if my alfalfa doesn't come in, should I over seed with orchard grass? Thanks for the reply



Why would you want to overseed Timothy with orchard?


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

several things about Timothy hay 

for horses Timothy hay is a ideal hay ...it has good protein...it has good fiber....and is very palatable (tasty) to horses...very good for their digestion system .....alfalfa hay has more protein and provides more "energy" for hard working performance horses and is easier to grow .but can cause issues for pleasure horses that do not get much excercize 

Timothy seed is probably the cheapest seed you can buy per per seed.....timothy as others have noted lasts 2-3 years.....it is rare to achieve more than one cutting a year .......it matures later in year......it like cooler climates and good moisture....timothy can be challenging to seed and meter due to its extremely small seed size

we produce horse hay for pleasure and older less active horses timothy is ideal for that group.....we plant Timothy and Brome together and add Timothy Seed to our Fertilizer spreader every year in the early spring ....we have been able to get Timothy to persist doing this ......also in a pure Timothy field we have let the field go to seed every few years to maintain persistence

in our area hay with a high percentage of timothy brings a premium as it is hard to grow in volume compared to other grasses or alfalfa

And as someone said...cut it high

Just my experiences and opinions


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

rjmoses said:


> Are you talking about timothy and mites?
> 
> Ralph


Mites in timothy are a big problem here, will easily wipe out the whole crop. Been that way since around 2000. We sprayed in early may. Usually not a problem the first year of the planting if it was not timothy before.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

It said pure Timothy hay nothing about orchard grass.
If you need or want a fast crop teff is a graunteed heavy crop needs very little water and grows fast


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Hayman1 said:


> Mites in timothy are a big problem here, will easily wipe out the whole crop. Been that way since around 2000. We sprayed in early may. Usually not a problem the first year of the planting if it was not timothy before.


Thx for the info....never had a mite issue here...something to keep a eye on


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

8350HiTech said:


> Why would you want to overseed Timothy with orchard?


Just asking, since the alfalfa may not have a stand at all. But the Timothy looks really good by itself.


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

ttazzman said:


> several things about Timothy hay
> 
> for horses Timothy hay is a ideal hay ...it has good protein...it has good fiber....and is very palatable (tasty) to horses...very good for their digestion system .....alfalfa hay has more protein and provides more "energy" for hard working performance horses and is easier to grow .but can cause issues for pleasure horses that do not get much excercize
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! Appreciate the help.👍


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

another followup 

here is a picture of our last field to cut (rain on the way so its on hold) ...point of the picture is its 6/20 ...as you can see the brome is well past maturity and the Timothy has seed heads that havent flowered yet shows the later maturing of timothy and how it can help hay quality if cuttings are delayed due to weather...located in SW missouri


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Madmetals said:


> Just asking, since the alfalfa may not have a stand at all. But the Timothy looks really good by itself.


I am sorry I miss under stood I thought they were wanting something to get a second cutting out of


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## Madmetals (Jun 18, 2021)

ttazzman said:


> another followup
> 
> here is a picture of our last field to cut (rain on the way so its on hold) ...point of the picture is its 6/20 ...as you can see the brome is well past maturity and the Timothy has seed heads that havent flowered yet shows the later maturing of timothy and how it can help hay quality if cuttings are delayed due to weather...located in SW missouri
> View attachment 90732


Pic is worth a thousand words, lol. Thank you


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## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

Go back and read ttazzman post #28, then read it again. I breed, own and train TB race horses in KY. We grow nothing but grass hay, mainly OG and Timothy, but a little blue and fescue gets carried into the fields by wind and birds. My horses, Mares, Yearlings and race horses get enough high quality grain mix everyday to prosper, but they must have tasty, grass hay (or pasture) that they like, and will eat in quantity to keep their gut moving. If they eat only grain they will get a gut blockage and die! Especially horses in a stall, (at the track) need tasty hay to stay healthy and they love timothy. Alfalfa hay is candy to a horse, high in energy, tasty and like being on an ice cream diet (not much roughage). Horses eat 16 hours a day. Most of that should be low protein food (grass and hay) that keeps their very delicate digestive system moving. If not, they colic and die. I hate to be dramatic, but until you have watched a horse die from colic, you have no idea about the necessary balance in the food for a horse.
PS: I sell my excess hay to the top race horse trainers in KY. They love an OG/Timothy mix.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Edd in KY said:


> Go back and read ttazzman post #28, then read it again. I breed, own and train TB race horses in KY. We grow nothing but grass hay, mainly OG and Timothy, but a little blue and fescue gets carried into the fields by wind and birds. My horses, Mares, Yearlings and race horses get enough high quality grain mix everyday to prosper, but they must have tasty, grass hay (or pasture) that they like, and will eat in quantity to keep their gut moving. If they eat only grain they will get a gut blockage and die! Especially horses in a stall, (at the track) need tasty hay to stay healthy and they love timothy. Alfalfa hay is candy to a horse, high in energy, tasty and like being on an ice cream diet (not much roughage). Horses eat 16 hours a day. Most of that should be low protein food (grass and hay) that keeps their very delicate digestive system moving. If not, they colic and die. I hate to be dramatic, but until you have watched a horse die from colic, you have no idea about the necessary balance in the food for a horse.
> PS: I sell my excess hay to the top race horse trainers in KY. They love an OG/Timothy mix.


People in general underfeed hay and overfeed grain, they greatly underestimate the importance of hay for the horse's gut, twisted bowls is often seen in horses that do not get enough hay. 
The problem is that hay is expensive and requires handling and not too many people factor this into their expenses and handling plans.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Timothy is the only easily sold horse hay here, so everything I reseed is done in straight Timothy. Used to last 30+ years and even without seeding fields would come up in timothy but lately the hotter/drier summers are putting a beating on it. I also got greedy and did some second cut which it didn't like at all and has allowed the orchard grass to get ahead of the timothy.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Clover in hay for horses is bad news, I work very hard to eradicate as much clover as I can, especially Alsike clover.

White clover has a phytotoxic mold on it that causes the slobbers, this is the same close-growing clover with white flowers that you often find in a lawn. Slobbers in itself is more disgusting than harmful, and usually only when horses eat it when it's wet. 

Red clover is not such a big deal, except that the stems contain a LOT of moisture, so unless the stems are cracked and dried down very well, there is a possibility for mold forming in the bale. 

Alsike clover is absolutely the worst for horses, specifically horses with light pigmented skin, such as Paints and pintos. A phytotoxic mold grows on Alsike clover that will cause a severe photosensitivity reaction in light skinned horses as well as liver damage. Ask me how I know - I spent well over $3000 to nurse an APHA horse back to health after he grazed heavily on wet Alsike clover. All of his chrome patches got 3rd degree sunburn in a matter of days, it all sloughed off. His liver was so badly affected he had edema in his legs so bad serum was oozing through the skin. Fortunately he had no separation at the coronal bands on his hooves and we were able to save him.

My vet told me they had at least two other horses that died from eating Alsike clover in bales that were put up with too much moisture back in 2019.

Again, it's not the clover itself, but a mold that grows on it and is actively toxic when the plant - or hay - is wet.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Timothy is "horse hay" because it's really the only grass horse owners know how to identify. When I was in high school I worked for a hay farmer that would grow some pure stand Timothy, and at least a few times I saw that he would drill in more seed pretty much every time he took a cutting off. He always said if you wait until the seed heads mature before mowing the field will reseed itself. He almost never cut the timothy fields until they headed out anyway, because otherwise the horse people "won't know what they're looking at".


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