# PTO HP required to run big square baler?



## JD3430

How much PTO HP do I need to run one? 
When I ask how much, I don't mean the BARE minimum, but what would be "adequate",,,, like a step up from minimum? 
Thanks.


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## fredro

150 to 180 perferbly 4x4 also these things are heavy


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## mlappin

Yah, with HP comes added weight. Depends on the brand of baler as well.


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## JD3430

OK, cause I found a Case-IH 7110 4WD/cab for a decent price, but only 132PTO HP







(((

I can't believe they need that much HP!!!!


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## JD3430

One of my dilemas is that the "old pros" in MY area run square balers, but the mushroom companies I sell to are starting to prefer round bales because they keep better outside and don't require tarping like the big square bales. One guy I sell to really likes buying from me because he likes my rounds. 
I wonder if I should just buy another round baler, or do what the "old pros" do? I'm thinking I might be on to something by producing rounds intstead of big squares????? I wonder if it's the new trend and I should "give the people what they want"???
Heck of a lot cheaper baler and doesn't require as big of a tractor. I would save fuel. Also I would be able to sell rounds to cattle and even a few horse people I have are buying round bales!


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## Teslan

If all you want to do is sell to mushroom companies then I guess round is the way to go? Much cheaper balers that's for sure. But I guess ask yourself what kind of bales bring the highest price. Here round bales are very hard sells and bring less money in normal moisture years (this year is different) then large square and small square. The market for them just isn't nearly as great.


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## FCF

JD3430 said:


> One of my dilemas is that the "old pros" in MY area run square balers, but the mushroom companies I sell to are starting to prefer round bales because they keep better outside and don't require tarping like the big square bales. One guy I sell to really likes buying from me because he likes my rounds.
> I wonder if I should just buy another round baler, or do what the "old pros" do? I'm thinking I might be on to something by producing rounds intstead of big squares????? I wonder if it's the new trend and I should "give the people what they want"???
> Heck of a lot cheaper baler and doesn't require as big of a tractor. I would save fuel. Also I would be able to sell rounds to cattle and even a few horse people I have are buying round bales!


Who or what market would you be able to sell to that you currently do not sell to if you had a large square baler? The purchase of a large square will require at least another larger tractor and some way to handle the bales. How do you intend to get an added return on the added investment over what you currently have? These are questions I would be asking myself if I were in your situation,

Just my 2 cents.


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## JD3430

FCF said:


> Who or what market would you be able to sell to that you currently do not sell to if you had a large square baler? The purchase of a large square will require at least another larger tractor and some way to handle the bales. How do you intend to get an added return on the added investment over what you currently have? These are questions I would be asking myself if I were in your situation,
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Sage advice there!! I was thinking the same thing. It's great when someone with experience feels the same way. 
You are sooo right, there comes a time when bigger isn't always better. I'm thinking that another 10-15K good used 4x5 round baler and another 100-125HP tractor is the way to go. Big balers are incredibly expensive, but there must be a reason the big time experienced guys use them.....
The thing I think might be happening is the mushroom growers are starting to change their thinking about the cost of storing bales. lots of hassle & expense on putting those huge tarps on the big piles of square bales.....

Teslan,
Round bales seem to do well HERE in my area. I can sell to mushroom, cattle and even some horsey people. I agree with you that different regions in the country seem to have different preferences!


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## Teslan

I think big square bales do better here then rounds for resale because they are easier to transport. Nearly all of my hay sales of either small or large square bales go at the least 30 miles to where they will be used. Plus here the large squares tend to weather fairly well outside. Not as good as rounds, but guys stack the 3x3 bales 6 high and the 4x4 bales 4 high.


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## bryce

I run a 85 Horse JD 2955 on my 3x3. It's fine in the field with the wheels set as wide as they go. It is a little light on horsepower and weight going down the road though.

This is only temporary though as my big tractor, 202 Horse JD 4960 is in repair for the majority of the summer but I wouldn't mind the 2955 all the time.


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## Waterway64

this is my first year with a 3x3x8 baler. I still have my Super M to. I rum both on my 5088 IH and it does well. If I were to continue selling locally I would have stayed with all round bales. However we have been selling into Treslans' market area because of the good prices and big squares sure help with trucking. Truckers are telling me it adds a mile per gallon on fuel as well as permit costs. The trip is about 350 miles and crosses 3 states. Mel


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## Teslan

I think the 5088 IH falls within minimum of most 3x3 balers and the weight on it is good. I would think the JD 2955 would be a stretch though for one. Mel are you shipping alot of hay to Colorado? I heard that there wasn't to much hay in South Dakota?


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Jd 3430, Do you have enough hay land to justify another round baler and tractor? Before I moved back into row crops and took out a lot of my hay land, I could cover 100's of acres in a year with no problem. Sometimes I would run 2 balers but not often. With a big square, it's not only horsepower but also being able to handle the weight, Just a thought. Mike


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## mlappin

In a nutshell, I don't think it's hardly possible to have too much tractor on a large square baler. If you go that route, you'll also need enough help to make sure you can pick em up in a timely manner.


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## JD3430

I am in the process of picking up more land. What I am finding is that it's pretty simple: No one around here wants to farm anymore (or work hard anymore). Everyone wants to sit on their fat ass in front of a computer and try to make a living. I want to work hard and farm. There's so much land simply being let go to stickers. I keep driving bby thinking "what if...." I think I could easily get more land to farm and in fact, I am aquiring more and more as the months go by. 
I think I'm gonna make a go at this. Everytime I climb on the tractor and make hay I hear this voice inside saying "this is what God intended me to do". I finally found the job I really like. It doesn't feel like work even though it's very hard work. I know some of you might be laughing at this, but it's the way I really feel. I like the equipment, the solitude, the dealing with customers, the wide open spaces. 
Anyway, my plan is to expand beyond my 120 current acres and I need a 2nd tractor. I want to tie the round baler to the bigger tractor and use my current smaller tractor to run the rake, tedder, sprayer and load bales. A 2nd baler is on the horizon and my son is interested in helping me. He's a great kid and big enough to hunt bear with a stick. He'll be hooked instantly and can work summers with me. Even my daughter wants in. 
I think i oughta buy a 2nd tractor that's strong enough to run a sq baler in case I upgrade.


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## Waterway64

Teslan said:


> I think the 5088 IH falls within minimum of most 3x3 balers and the weight on it is good. I would think the JD 2955 would be a stretch though for one. Mel are you shipping alot of hay to Colorado? I heard that there wasn't to much hay in South Dakota?


 I have been shipping nearly all my hay out of state the last year and a halh and since December just to Colorado. People here are still thinking I should sell cut rate. We are the region of the U.S. that has the cheapest hay in the country. Buyers here have that mindset. I like being able to sell at a competitive price for quality hay. Mel


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## Teslan

JD3430 that's how I feel about farming also and I've been doing it my whole life. I also sell real estate, but would not want to do that all the time and depend on it for my living. You are right. It is hard work, but it doesn't feel like work. Even in a challenging year due to weather. I also think that it's great in your area you can expand your acreages so easily from what you say. Can't due that around here so easily.


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## mlappin

Can't expand easily at all here either. Good land with irrigation goes to seed corn, green beans or cucumbers. Also have several large guys here that have _very_ successful business's already and use the farming as a tax write off. Latest wanna be BTO hit one of those progressive jackpots in Vegas, all kinds of new equipment as of late. I'm happy to get a slab of bacon once a month from the tip boards at the VFW.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Well JD3430, You certainly have the right attitude. Just need to have a good business plan of where you are going and how you will get there. Mike


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> I think I'm gonna make a go at this. Everytime I climb on the tractor and make hay I hear this voice inside saying "this is what God intended me to do". I finally found the job I really like. It doesn't feel like work even though it's very hard work. I know some of you might be laughing at this, but it's the way I really feel. I like the equipment, the solitude, the dealing with customers, the wide open spaces.


It would take a ignorant fool to make light of your confessions. By the Grace of God you are being allowed to do what most only wish they could do....to enjoy their work. I like all the things also that you mentioned. If I felt I absolutely had a need for a 150 horse tractor, I would first buy a older used alice or something in those lines to confirm those thoughts.....if you found out you did or did not need that large of a tractor, then you could adjust accordingly with smoother financial transition. Ecclesiastes 2:24(work)

Best Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki

Be careful expanding to quick. Here there is so much vacant land up for free in poor shape I could probably get 1000 acres rent free within a year or two. But theres a reason why its vacant. Do the math, use your head as much as your heart.

At least here big squares are a sure way to make less money on the same acres. Small squares bring a large premium. For the price of a large square baler, something like a bale baron or bandit makes a lot of sense in our area.


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## dbergh

JD3430: I have run the 7110 on a 4X4 baler and it did the job bu tit was working plenty hard. Tractor has big enough frame and is heavy enough but a few more ponies would be better for the situation. We have a 7220 that is rated at 150 HP but dynos closer to 180 and it handles the baler nicely. We also run a JD 8300 at 200+ HP and it has plenty of power and weight to handle the baler but the electronic governor and speed control are not a very good match on the big balers as the governor ups the power on every plunger stroke and causes the tractor to constantly lope back and forth trying to find the right HP for the load.
I second your sentiments on making hay-although on mornings like today when I have to go out and try to gather up my alfalfa that was raked beautifully the morning before and ready to be baled this morning until the freak windstorm undid all my good work, i do wonder why i signed up for this


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## JD3430

dbergh said:


> JD3430: I have run the 7110 on a 4X4 baler and it did the job bu tit was working plenty hard. Tractor has big enough frame and is heavy enough but a few more ponies would be better for the situation. We have a 7220 that is rated at 150 HP but dynos closer to 180 and it handles the baler nicely. We also run a JD 8300 at 200+ HP and it has plenty of power and weight to handle the baler but the electronic governor and speed control are not a very good match on the big balers as the governor ups the power on every plunger stroke and causes the tractor to constantly lope back and forth trying to find the right HP for the load.
> I second your sentiments on making hay-although on mornings like today when I have to go out and try to gather up my alfalfa that was raked beautifully the morning before and ready to be baled this morning until the freak windstorm undid all my good work, i do wonder why i signed up for this


The thing I like about the MAXXUM is it has an 8.3L Cummins in it. That engine was made to be rated up to 370HP. When you only have a puny 150HP pump on it, it isn't working very hard. I love in line Cummins and IH diesels. Don't know much about the Deere in-lines but I'm sure they're fine units.
Great point on the speed control & auto gov. Didn't even think about that. All the more reason to buy an old non electronic diesel. lol


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## jturbo10

JD3430: Agree with your attitude about haying. Hard work but when the day is over and you are setting on the porch with lemonade or a cold Bud you feel good about your effort. If you want to buy an older JD tractor I would recommend something like a 4440 or 4450. I was going to buy a new JD at the dealership like a 64xx series but when I compared it to an older JD there wasn't any comparison in quality of construction, materials used, and durability of components. I liked the fuel burn of the new tractors but not the "guts". I have a cherry 4450 that never gives me any trouble and burns zero oil even though I have about 7000 hrs on the engine. Today I had to take it to the dealership to work on the A/C and a young mechanic raved about how nice a tractor it was even though it is a 1983 model. The EPA has ruined our heavy equipment lineup including our diesels trucks with all the EGR valves, particulate burners, urea additives etc. Want a new diesel pickup but don't want the add ons so with stay with my bullet proof 24 valve Cummins Dodge. Except for batteries and a starter rebuild it has never had a wrench on the engine.


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## JD3430

Yeah I have a older DT466 powered dump truck and it runs like a top. So simple to work on. Definately looking at the Maxxums, but won't turn away a good deal on a Deere, either.


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## Teslan

Sometimes I think the reason why tractors and equipment are built cheaper is that the manufacturers want things to break down to make money on the parts and dealers to make the repairs. But still for new equipment the price keeps going up. We bought a used 1998 JD 7810 with 4500 hours this last year. Even though it really isn't that old the quality of it is much better then our 2007 New Holland. How is one supposed to wash the roof of a tractor cab anymore. Can't step on the fenders or the hood.


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## somedevildawg

Planned obsolescence, the manufacturing companies started realizing this back in the 70's and never turned back. Just replaced my moms hot water heater, it was installed in 1962. Try that today, I could go on and on, it's in everything we buy nowadays, just put the cheap ass bearings made in ROC in there, they will come back, where else they gonna go? 20 years ago you could go into out local tractor supply dealer, msi, now agri-supply, and 20% of the products may have been made in other countries. Today if you go into that store, which I try not to, 90%of items in the store are manufactured in ROC, I myself are sick of it, I'm like the guy in the song....spend more money on a shirt that has USA in the back....I don't even know if that's possible now, every year it gets worse....


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## somedevildawg

Hey jd 3430 one thing to remember about those large tractors is fuel economy, or lack thereof, my 6420 drinks lots more than the 4 cyl I own....and it ain't all that "big" compared to some of those others, I can tell you that it don't sit around idling for any length of time


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## JD3430

You got that right. Looks like they drink a LOT of fuel.
I had a guy tell me today to get a tractor SMALLER than the one i own to pull the tedder & rake. like an old Ford with about 40HP.


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## somedevildawg

Yes, as much as I have been running both of those pieces, if I was running a 6 on those I would be in the poorer house! You can definitely tell the diff in fuel economy, in your wallet. Newer tractors generally get better run time on a gallon of fuel, depending on the amount of hours......like I tell people all the time, some people don't feel the pinch, or I should say the sledgehammer, at the pump the same way. My son and his wife live close to work and may drive 150 miles a week between them, my wife and I drive about 900 miles a week, that's about a lot of diff, add to that farm diesel and we spend damn near 3,000 a month on fuel alone....you learn to cut tractors off, drive vw jetta diesels (I have 2) and take the 4 cyl tractor to do a job that could just as well be done with the a/c 6420 cab tractor....if cost wasn't an object I would jump in the 6420 every time.


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## JD3430

somedevildawg said:


> Planned obsolescence, the manufacturing companies started realizing this back in the 70's and never turned back. Just replaced my moms hot water heater, it was installed in 1962. Try that today, I could go on and on, it's in everything we buy nowadays, just put the cheap ass bearings made in ROC in there, they will come back, where else they gonna go? 20 years ago you could go into out local tractor supply dealer, msi, now agri-supply, and 20% of the products may have been made in other countries. Today if you go into that store, which I try not to, 90%of items in the store are manufactured in ROC, I myself are sick of it, I'm like the guy in the
> song....spend more money on a shirt that has USA in the back....I don't even know if that's possible now, every year it gets worse....


I was reminded of that today ni my old, slow, outdated 1499 haybine. It's American heavy steel and I was able to brush the cab right up against tree limbs that would have ripped the mirrors, lights, wires and light plastic off my newer lighter kubota tractor. I swear they build these new tractors like china dolls.


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## KCH

*We run a agco 7444 big baler with an acumulator, currently on an Allis Chalmers 4w220. We have had big balers since they came out in the 80's. (we were the dealer) My personal opinion for what its worth is you need a minimum of 180 pto hp. You also nedd to consider the weight the book calls for a tractor weight of 21000 with an accumulator, and I believe 19000 without. The 4w220 is a little on the light side but being an articulating tractor with 20.8-38's it handles it pretty well. I also have 2 round balers and i can tell you the big square will bury the two rounds in production. You can also put up better hay witht the big square.*


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