# toxic weeds and horse hay



## JD3430

Just read many pages of "toxic weeds" (nightshade, dogbane, groundcherries, horsenettle, etc.) After reading about these weeds, it seems almost impossible to the casual observer that any delivery of hay could possibly be free of at least some of these toxic weeds.
If that's the case, then why don't more animals get sick? Do they eat around most of them?


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## Nitram

For the most part the animals will learn what not to eat before they get noticeably sick to us...but if the toxicity is high enough and that is all they have to eat yes they will get sick. One thing is often there is no data included as to how much it takes for a particular animal to get deathly sick unless you find a real good investigative article on the weed in question. As a producer you need to keep an eye out for high concentrations of weeds in your fields and check if they are toxic. Not all weeds are bad for animals to eat and sometimes they will eat them first before what we would have them eat. Critters.... go figure. Martin


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## Dougie

Do you guys have any thoughts on nitrate levels in volunteer red/sweet clover or its toxicity to horses and cattle? I just recently heard that they can be high and therefore toxic. I was wondering if this was true and if anybody had any resources/knowledge about this. We always thought it beneficial to our grass hay production...maybe its not? Any thoughts...


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## terraceridge

As a hay producer, my job is to make sure every load of hay sold as "horse hay" is free of anything toxic to horses. I grow coastal bermuda and spray with 2-4 D in the spring and dig sandspurs in the summer. A little crabgrass is okay, but I want my hay free of toxic weeds, weeds with woody stems, and anything unappetizing to horses.


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## ansata

Can someone please help me! I have a load of what I thought was nice Orchard grass hay. I have found what I believe to be Silver Nightshade all throughout the bales. I've had 2 or 3 so far with none, but have had to throw out half a bale that was full, and sift through 2 other bales, spending lots of time getting the stuff out. I've checked most of the rest of the bales and have found that they all have some of this stuff. How toxic is this? Do horses eat small amounts of this and not get sick? I have read that it only takes 0.1% of body weight to be toxic. I have a 935 lb horse - how much would be toxic to him? Should I get the company I got it from to replace it, or continue to sift out what I can. Bottom line - how dangerous is this really?


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## Vol

ansata said:


> Can someone please help me! I have a load of what I thought was nice Orchard grass hay. I have found what I believe to be Silver Nightshade all throughout the bales. I've had 2 or 3 so far with none, but have had to throw out half a bale that was full, and sift through 2 other bales, spending lots of time getting the stuff out. I've checked most of the rest of the bales and have found that they all have some of this stuff. How toxic is this? Do horses eat small amounts of this and not get sick? I have read that it only takes 0.1% of body weight to be toxic. I have a 935 lb horse - how much would be toxic to him? Should I get the company I got it from to replace it, or continue to sift out what I can. Bottom line - how dangerous is this really?


The toxin from nightshade is primarily in the berries....trace in the leaves. I doubt if a horse would eat nightshade in hay but rather pick around it....0.1% OF 935 pounds would be almost 1 pound of nightshade.

Regards, Mike

P.S. Are you sure its not horse or bull nettle?


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## ansata

Hi Mike,
I can send a photo if you want. (But I don't know how to get it uploaded in here). I have looked at photos on line of it, and this stuff matches. But I don't know if the other things you mentioned look the same or not. My horse will eat anything!! Before I knew what it was he was eating it. Then I started picking it out. There are a few berries, but not many - maybe one to a flake or two. It has the purple flowers too.
Thanks so much for your reply.
Merry Christmas!


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## Mike120

Really simple answer to all this....Producers, know your fields and keep them clean. Buyers, know your producers and don't just buy hay from the cheapest source. You'll often get what you paid for.

Most horses will eat around stuff unless they have nothing else to eat. Mike is right, it takes a LOT of weed to make MOST horses colic.


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## somedevildawg

That's why I spend about 75$ a year per acre........and that's why my hay is weedfree.


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## Vol

somedevildawg said:


> That's why I spend about 75$ a year per acre........and that's why my hay is weedfree.


Amen.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

I spent quite a bit on weed mgmt, but still battled weeds especially milkweeddogbane.
Wonder if that's because previous guys never sprayed and I'll have to knock em down a few more years till they are more easily managed???


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## somedevildawg

jD, I don't know a thing about what y'all grow up there, but the Bermuda grass is sod forming grass, (some more than others) not much soil exposed for weeds to encroach perhaps....but a good procedure of spraying early in the spring, followed by a healthy dose of N, sunshine, and H2o and very few weeds will give you a problem throughout the growing season. Some exceptions are Baha'i (grass) and sandbur, but they too can be taken care of by spot spraying those areas. Problem is cost, 17 per acre @2 applications is 35 per acre (Pastora) surfactant, 24-d, and fossil fuels and you can tie up some $ quick! But you will have weed free Bermuda grass hay for the most part.....this season I had my last cutting on one field to be invaded by nut grass, first time for that, not sure what kills nut grass (nut sedge) besides deisel







for our part I had a couple from across the border walk my field for 2 days and remove all they could by hand. Probably 1 ton.....hope I don't have that problem again.....


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> I spent quite a bit on weed mgmt, but still battled weeds especially milkweeddogbane.
> Wonder if that's because previous guys never sprayed and I'll have to knock em down a few more years till they are more easily managed???


Dogbane is very difficult to kill....very persistant....and takes years to eradicate. If it is not widespread(several acres) use a hand sprayer on a atv and spot spray with Crossbow....it kills tough weeds and grown up fence rows....hard on grasses but does not kill them if directions are followed....they recover in a few weeks....slows their growth.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Ditto for Pastora and Bermuda grass, first cut is usually weak, Bermuda grass Is stunted a bit but rebounds quickly given proper nutrients.


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## terraceridge

somedevildawg said:


> jD, I don't know a thing about what y'all grow up there, but the Bermuda grass is sod forming grass, (some more than others) not much soil exposed for weeds to encroach perhaps....but a good procedure of spraying early in the spring, followed by a healthy dose of N, sunshine, and H2o and very few weeds will give you a problem throughout the growing season. Some exceptions are Baha'i (grass) and sandbur, but they too can be taken care of by spot spraying those areas. Problem is cost, 17 per acre @2 applications is 35 per acre (Pastora) surfactant, 24-d, and fossil fuels and you can tie up some $ quick! But you will have weed free Bermuda grass hay for the most part.....this season I had my last cutting on one field to be invaded by nut grass, first time for that, not sure what kills nut grass (nut sedge) besides deisel
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> for our part I had a couple from across the border walk my field for 2 days and remove all they could by hand. Probably 1 ton.....hope I don't have that problem again.....


I have had good luck with Outrider for nut grass in bermuda. Also, 2-4D will burn the nut grass to the ground, but it will come back.

By the way, hand pulling will only hurt nut grass if the actual nut is removed. Otherwise, it will just come back.


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## somedevildawg

terraceridge said:


> I have had good luck with Outrider for nut grass in bermuda. Also, 2-4D will burn the nut grass to the ground, but it will come back.
> 
> By the way, hand pulling will only hurt nut grass if the actual nut is removed. Otherwise, it will just come back.


i may have to try the outrider, thanks for the heads up! We pulled it just to keep it out of the baled hay, looks nasty in a square.....


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