# 23 days later and she says hay heated up



## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I got a call from a first time horse hay buyer. Sold her a load of 150 bales cause her last guy stopped selling or making hay. It was good stuff. Gave her a few bales off the wagon and told her try it and if you like I will drive the wagon over. Called back a few hours later and wanted the trailer load said horses loved it. Brought it over and her hands loaded it in the barn. This was on the first. She called today and asked if she could return the 80 bales left as they got hot and moldy. Can that really happen this long after the hay was baled? Its been 23 days and just got hot. It was hot today and over the weekend and high humidity. I called the other people I delivered to from the same field and at the same time I baled this stuff and none of them had any trouble and all there hay was fine and dry. Could it be the barn is to tight or did I just have a wet load that took this long to heat? I haven't been over to see how it was put up in the barn and what the hay really looks like. Any thoughts?


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Barn is too tight, perfect timing though, usually takes about 3 weeks for final "sweat"


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

haybaler101 said:


> Barn is too tight, perfect timing though, usually takes about 3 weeks for final "sweat"


I'm with haybaler101...barn too tight. One more thing is why the heck she feeding freshly cut hay to horses. The hay should cure (...3 weeks for final "sweat"). Horses can colic on "hot" hay. One of the last things I tell customers is not to feed for at least two weeks and allow air flow when put up. I had a guy load 100 bales in his horse trailer and he didn't put in barn for five days. When he came back to get the other 100 bales I schooled him about putting up hay. Common sense goes along way. Tell her to keep the hay, it's not your fault.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

My other thought was at the time I got into a good window and not to many people made or had hay when I brought it to her. But this weekend there was a hay baling everywhere so I thought maybe she got a good deal and wanted to get her money back. Told her when I sold her the hay that it wasn't my best stuff. And that if she had any bad ones that I would replace them next time she got hay with new fresh bales. Same as I tell every new customer. Hope I don't loose her shes a big stable and feeds 1000 first and 1500 second. Only time will tell


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

This is one of those times that you use the old saying that the customer is always right. Wether or not they are. You bend over backwards, take the hay back and give them credit for replacement. This will go far with any customer. 
In the mean time take a close look at what you take back. If its bad then try to learn from it.

I've had hay go south in this time frame. Perhaps if the bales are tight it may take extra time for oxygen to make its way in. I'm no expert, just a thought.


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

We bale at 14% moisture and have no problems. I agree if she is a potential good customer take them back. I would check the barn.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

I had almost same thing happen to me. I delivered 100 bales to a lady that boards 12 horses. Here one horse that is left to roam free came over and started eating hay off my trailer as I pulled in lol. She says "welp it past the taste test. She just loved it, calls next day so we have a problem hay is starting to mold already. It has been in barn for little over 2 weeks. Needless to say that day was first day we had that got up into the 80s with Humidity, guess that triggered it. I replaced it all and she bought another 100. The rest of my mixed grass hay she didn't want cause had a few weeds in it. Sold 1100 bales to guys out of NC that came to here and trucked it back down on semi's. Guess it's time I get a moisture meter.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

weatherman said:


> I'm with haybaler101...barn too tight. One more thing is why the heck she feeding freshly cut hay to horses. The hay should cure (...3 weeks for final "sweat"). Horses can colic on "hot" hay. One of the last things I tell customers is not to feed for at least two weeks and allow air flow when put up. I had a guy load 100 bales in his horse trailer and he didn't put in barn for five days. When he came back to get the other 100 bales I schooled him about putting up hay. Common sense goes along way. Tell her to keep the hay, it's not your fault.


Never heard the three weeks before, did have one buyer that bought three hundred round bales a year from me and he claimed ten days. He also claimed colic was never from hay but a lack of water, or low water intake.

Anyways back in the day of running acid I would use the low rate on all my hay regardless of how dry it was to avoid the sweat. Cheap insurance if you were pre paying for a tote of 2200lbs of acid, came out to less than $3.75 a ton to treat all of it. Since going to Circle C rollers I don't haven't had near the sweat problem and have went with Hayguard but only apply it at 18% and above.

I think with the Circle C rollers since you are getting a much better crimp the actual moisture inside the stem matches closer to what hand held and in chamber moisture testers claim the hay is.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> I had almost same thing happen to me. I delivered 100 bales to a lady that boards 12 horses. Here one horse that is left to roam free came over and started eating hay off my trailer as I pulled in lol. She says "welp it past the taste test. She just loved it, calls next day so we have a problem hay is starting to mold already. It has been in barn for little over 2 weeks. Needless to say that day was first day we had that got up into the 80s with Humidity, guess that triggered it. I replaced it all and she bought another 100. The rest of my mixed grass hay she didn't want cause had a few weeds in it. Sold 1100 bales to guys out of NC that came to here and trucked it back down on semi's. Guess it's time I get a moisture meter.


 You must have gave that hay away if you got some Carolina boys to ship it all the way from pa this early in the year.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Maybe you could tell her that you will trade out the bales for a different lot of your hay, that ways she wouldn't be going somewhere else for cheaper priced hay. And then if the bales truly are moldy it will please her that you are replacing them.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Maybe you could tell her that you will trade out the bales for a different lot of your hay, that ways she wouldn't be going somewhere else for cheaper priced hay. And then if the bales truly are moldy it will please her that you are replacing them.


That is what we would do if we were sure it was the hay and not the barn .Hay can take 25 days to heat but most times it happens sooner at 3 weeks out id bet it is a storage problem


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Just curious but how would a barn affect the heating/molding of hay unless the barn was leaking or a lot or rain blowing in?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Just curious but how would a barn affect the heating/molding of hay unless the barn was leaking or a lot or rain blowing in?


If it's too tight and doesn't allow any air circulation or is tight enough to hold in the moisture that the hay is releasing.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I've never experienced hay heating that late unless it got wet after the fact or was baled in cold weather and warmed up. Here once baled and in storage it drops in moisture content and heats within 1-3 days. Open a bale and the worst mold will be in the centre.

Here if it gets dusty from a damp/humid barn I always find it is externally dusty (1-2") and the cores will be good.

If it gets ruined from a water leak in the barn the damage goes through the bale but usually highly localized with damage following the layers of the flake and centres of flakes less affected.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

My barn is enclosed on three sides with the east side open and I haven't noticed any spoilage except for the bottom layer even when on pallets. I have thought about putting some type of door on the east side to help reduce the sun bleaching but I guess that would be bad as it would reduce the air flow.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

mlappin said:


> If it's too tight and doesn't allow any air circulation or is tight enough to hold in the moisture that the hay is releasing.


We find problems when the hay is stored in poorly ventilated area crowded with animals


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

and somewhere on some horsey internet forum this lady is saying her hay was heating up and this farmer wouldn't take it back. Then there are a bunch of other horsey people also blaming the hay grower taking her side.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> You must have gave that hay away if you got some Carolina boys to ship it all the way from pa this early in the year.


$3.00/bale off the wagon. Was timothy/o grass mixed hay with fair amount of weeds but was nice looking bales. I thought $3.00 per bale was worth it off the wagons, cause if I would of stored it away might of got at the most $4.00 buck for it in the winter per bale. Supposedly was going to there Horse farm where they have about 100 horses. Who knows, I was satisfied being able to get that quanity sold all at one time right of wagons. Did take 4 hrs to load 700 bales on trailer. All by hand and elevator.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

If you decide to take the hay back and give her a credit, make sure its YOUR hay that you are getting back. Maybe she had some crap hay, and she is trying to "replace" it with your good hay, while giving you back the hot stuff!

I hate to have to be so suspicious of people, but that's a sign of the times that we now live in.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

LeadFarmer said:


> If you decide to take the hay back and give her a credit, make sure its YOUR hay that you are getting back. Maybe she had some crap hay, and she is trying to "replace" it with your good hay, while giving you back the hot stuff!
> 
> I hate to have to be so suspicious of people, but that's a sign of the times that we now live in.


I agree. I had that from a fairly big stable in Denver where the owner who bought the hay from me never even touches the hay. She has help do all the work. She called me saying that my bales were hard to break open. The hay was supposedly sideways in the bale and they couldn't pull it apart. (I'm not sure how that can happen at all). So I asked her to go measure the sides of the bale and call me back with the measurements. She went and measured and sent me an e-mail back saying there were 14X18X36 inch squares. I replied that those were not my bales as mine are 16x18x39. She never replied. Then the next year I was trying to figure out how to get rid of her as a customer nicely when her manager called and asked me to sell them only Timothy hay. I don't and can't grow timothy. Problem solved .


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

There is a stable in town here that has a habit of reporting bad hay and saying they won't pay since they couldn't feed any of it. Try to go and take your hay back and mysteriously its not there.


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## Hand&Hand Farms (Feb 5, 2011)

Barn to tight, we see this all the time with small horsey farms. We have put 100 to 200 bales in thier barn and 2 to 3 weeks later they called saying its molded. Hay can't be stored on a concrete floor with no ventilation but horse owners no it all.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I know they had problems with the guy before the last guy they got hay from. Had the whole barn full of moldy hay. And the place is super nice and clean. I'm sure the place was seem sealed and tight as an old Yankees wallet. I have the only newer baler in the area and use poly witch is taboo around here so it would be hard to switch it out for hay from someone else . I told her I would take it back and swap her out for good hay when I made some but that was last nite and I never herd from her today. Worst comes to worse I can always sell it as mulch. Just sucks if I loose her because she hasnt a clue what shes doing and not something that I did. Maybe I can try to educate the yuppys lol


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Saw the same thing happen with squares stored in a box trailer. The producer loaded them into the 18 wheeler type box trailers right out of the field. He would ship them to customers or feed stores, leave the van and come back once it sold.

My wife worked at the store and the owners called me to see what was wrong with the hay.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

stacking hay cut edge up helps a lot too. I have enough wagons to be able to store them for at least a week under cover in the shed. Has really helped it cure as the hay barn is lacking ventilation. Going to take advantage of the rainy weather and add 20,000 cfm of exhaust in the overhead barn. I have had it go south in the semi trailers as well. I put it in beautiful about 2 and a half weeks after baling and thought everything was great. Nope , uh-uh When they were picked up a week later you could smell the musty. Now I don't sell any till seconds in the barn.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> $3.00/bale off the wagon. Was timothy/o grass mixed hay with fair amount of weeds but was nice looking bales. I thought $3.00 per bale was worth it off the wagons, cause if I would of stored it away might of got at the most $4.00 buck for it in the winter per bale. Supposedly was going to there Horse farm where they have about 100 horses. Who knows, I was satisfied being able to get that quanity sold all at one time right of wagons. Did take 4 hrs to load 700 bales on trailer. All by hand and elevator.


 You did good, I have to store most of my hay into the winter before I can get my customers to send a truck to get it, they sure wouldn't load out of the field. If I have hay with a fair amount of weeds I can't even sell it, I am having to spray my fields twice a year now.


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Nothing I sell goes into a horse barn over 11 percent moisture in first cutting grass hay. I assume the customer will close the doors and stuff 20 wet nags under it. Moldy on inside it is my fault, moldy on outside is barn's fault. Same with custom baling, get it dry and no problems. Later on with some higher moisture 3 rd cut with cooler fall temp we can push it a bit. But not under a tin roof on first of july.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

been selling hay over 40 years very selective to who we sell off the field . We keep it till it is threw sweating then sell it


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't know how you guys can deal with hay making in the east. Not only do you guys seem to have to ted and ted then ted again then rake. You have to be so careful in storing it also. I guess that more then makes up for my work having to irrigate all the time vs. not ever having to ted. And stacking any kind of hay inside a barn on just bare ground and not worrying about it sweating or heating if baled fairly dry. We also can for the most part store hay outside without much moisture damage from the rain as it doesn't rain that much. We've had about .5 inches since June 1. If that.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh its not that bad, at least we don't have to deal with feeling comfortable on 95 deg days as we get nice 80% humidity to keep everything sticky and gross feeling.

On a more serious note, we can build barns with driers in them too. Lots of folks here have them, just costs a bit to run them. The rainfall gives us very little water problems like the west other than too much. Handy to put animals out in a field and not have to run water to them.



Teslan said:


> I don't know how you guys can deal with hay making in the east.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I would look very closely and make her show you where it is molding. You will probably never suit her. Seen it 100 times.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> I don't know how you guys can deal with hay making in the east.


To use the current vernacular.......it "sucks" here compared to hay making in the arid parts of the country.

Regards, Mike


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Teslan said:


> I don't know how you guys can deal with hay making in the east.


Well... right now we aren't making any Hay! I can't even find a dry day to unload a wagon from last week!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Copied from http://hymark.blogspot.com/



This is a classic Dairy or Livestock barn form 100 years ago. Note the 5 white doors on the end of the barn. They can be opened to allow the hay to sweat and let the hot moisture escape.

Over on Talk,Newagtalk.com a BTO hay grower uses pole barns with sides that do not block the air movement. Fellow goes by the name Badger & is in Montana.

I try not to sell hay to the horse owning public, as they tend to know everything. Everything except forages and feed.

Now in the past an old man who had horses did not want to feed hay from this years crop to his horses. That may have been a little overly cautious, but it is best for hay to have finished it's sweat before feeding.

HERE I am fortunate in that the hay I *usually* bale, the stems are thoroughly dry and the only moisture is night dew in and on the leaves. This hay seldom heats in the stack.

The comments about a tedder fluffing up the hay and limiting the set slugs in a bale is a valid point. The same thinking also applies to a rotory rake. It is possible to create wet slugs with a rotory rake but it takes a knack for messing up a windrow to build wet slugs with a rotory rake,

Keep this in Mind. We all adapt our equipment, and climate, to our crops to produce something we are comfortable with.
Does not mean our ways are the best!
It is possible our way is the worst of all the options.
Still we get the job done to our satisfaction.

Where the sweat comes from is probably the stem moisture.
A moisture tester provides an estimate of the average moisture. Consider this 20% hay moisture bale, 30% leaves and 10% stem moisture will bale well and retain the leaves. Reverse that and have and the hay has dried down to 20% moisture and finally ready to bale. Thing is the stems are 35% moisture and the leaves are 5% moisture, average 20%. In baling half the leaves are lost, and we have a bale of mostly 35% moisture stems. These will not only heat, mold, turn black, burn down the barn, but can soften a tar road 100 feet away.

Putting up good hay is easy, almost as easy as putting up sorry hay.


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> $3.00/bale off the wagon. Was timothy/o grass mixed hay with fair amount of weeds but was nice looking bales. I thought $3.00 per bale was worth it off the wagons, cause if I would of stored it away might of got at the most $4.00 buck for it in the winter per bale. Supposedly was going to there Horse farm where they have about 100 horses. Who knows, I was satisfied being able to get that quanity sold all at one time right of wagons. Did take 4 hrs to load 700 bales on trailer. All by hand and elevator.


At $3.00 you are not even breakin even. When you figured twine, fuel, fertlize and cost of equipment and especially if you had to load 700 bales. Sounds like these guys are simply lowballin ya'll up,there and bet you money that hay hits the market again at double your price. Mine don't leave the field for less than 4 and every time I touch it, adds money.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Except for a lucky dry windy week in aug, you can't make hay without a tedder here. You can rake any way you want, as many times as you want,but unless you expose the stems to sun evenly in a thin layer they won't dry out with the high humidity.

The driest you can get hay in our 2-3 day windows with just a rake is about 25-30%, too wet even for acid.



hay wilson in TX said:


> The comments about a tedder fluffing up the hay and limiting the set slugs in a bale is a valid point. The same thinking also applies to a rotory rake. It is possible to create wet slugs with a rotory rake but it takes a knack for messing up a windrow to build wet slugs with a rotory rake,


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

So update she sent her help in the rain with a truck and her horse trailer to deliver the "wet bales" back. So they took it out and I stacked it into my barn. No dust and nothing that seemed hot at all just some that got rained on when they drove the truck out to the barn. Told her I would like to come see the barn and she said it was put up right that the hay was wet when they put it in and she had the doors closed because of the rain but she had a fan on it. Yeah that will help. I planed to cut a few of the bales open and have her show me what was wrong but she didn't show just her Mexican help. What ever I have plenty of people who would love the hay so no loss here. Told her when I get another cutting of first I would replace the hay. If she doesn't like that hay she can stuff it up her well you know.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I can't seem to hit the sweet spot when hay is still green, but moisture after being baled is under 15%. 
If I do get it under 15%, it looks like the end of the broom my mother used to hit me with when I back talked her. 
I see competitors hay. It looks as green a spinach. Never tested it for moisture, but it also feels soft to the tough. Mine feels all pokey.
I'm just not good at making really good hay yet. 
Guess I 'll be keeping the mushroom company stocked up real well for the time being. 
I made 300 4x5 net wrapped round bales so far. I'd say maybe 1/5th of them have the right moisture range and look green inside and have low weed content. The other 250 are too moist from non stop rain, or look like the work end of a corn broom.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

could be the species of grass JD. I forget if your new discbine had rolls or impellers for conditioning. I stacked as much pressure as I could on my rolls with heavier springs and that has given me a little color back due to faster drydown. I also mow at 5 in to give me some airflow all around the windrow. I might add the extra stem abuse from crushing the pith does make the OG feel a little softer too.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Stems are cracked, but the rolls look to be about 3/16" apart. Is that too much gap? My haybine rolls were all but touching each other.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Stems are cracked, but the rolls look to be about 3/16" apart. Is that too much gap? My haybine rolls were all but touching each other.


Run em as tight as you can get em without having them touch. Real easy to adjust on the discbines, messing with shims on the 499 and 495 sucked.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Stems are cracked, but the rolls look to be about 3/16" apart. Is that too much gap? My haybine rolls were all but touching each other.


I usually set mine with 3x5 card. I want to be sure everything... even the juvenile grass gets to feel the roll pressure


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> been selling hay over 40 years very selective to who we sell off the field . We keep it till it is threw sweating then sell it


How long do you think the range of time is to sweat round bales? 
1-3 weeks?


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