# Poetic Justice?



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Some folks just don't get it.....your health is everything as far as quality of life is concerned.

Regards, Mike

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/02/12/heart-attack-grill-pokesman-dies-heart-attack/?test=latestnews


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Sounds like a damn good burger, wonder if they have a child sized one. My cholesterol is good, actually really good considering I never pay attention to whether something is good for your cholesterol or not, but wow almost 10,000 calories in a 3lb burger.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I don't pay much attention either. At my age, the only thing healthy living would do is extend my time in a nursing home. Life extensions from healthy eating only work if you get them when you're young.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

One of my very best friends/college roommate had a rather blaise opinion about good health and growing gracefully. He did most things to excess.....smoking, eating, and drinking. The only thing that he did not do to excess was exercise. His rather cavalier attitude about the number of days spent on this earth and how precious they are changed dramatically just about this time one year ago. As he lay dying with cancer he would have given anything to go back and change how his life was spent(healthwise).....even if it only would have granted him one more day in this world. Talk and opinions quite often change dramatically when one realizes that they are very soon to leave this world. Life is short....and very precious. Sip it wisely.

Best Regards and Good Health,

Mike


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Having spent a good portion of my life in the pharmaceutical industry and coming from a family with an excess of doctors and nurses (I was the black sheep engineer), I have a rather skeptical view of many "healthy living" fads. The sad fact is that we still don't know what causes cancer. I'm a two-time survivor as is my wife, so we unfortunately have some experience in that area. Absolutely no one can tell us what we could have done differently in our lives to avoid it. I've also lived long enough to have seen many, many fads debunked by more advanced research.

What the pharmaceutical and medical professions have done thus far is to find ways to counter infections caused by bacteria and some viruses. Most of the theories about what works, and what doesn't, were/are based on the assumption that a human being is a single entity. They have gotten us this far and increased life spans because they addressed the major bacterial causes of death in the past with antibiotics and antivirals, developed vaccines to enhance immunities, surgical methods to fix problems and remove tumors, chemo therapies, radiation, etc. It's like using a shotgun to kill a fly.....It works but it's not very efficient.

We've known for years that good bacteria lived in the gut, that bad bacteria caused ulcers, and that some broad spectrum antibiotics killed the good guys and caused problems. They're more selective now but still problematical and the bad guys can develop immunities to them. What's been discovered though, is that humans are not a single entity, but really an ecosystem of 100-plus trillion bacteria and they communicate. We have met the enemy, and it is us.

Almost all of the healthy living fads are people trying to sell something. I worked for the company that "discovered cholesterol" and built the plants that made the drugs. There are a lot of funny stories about it and I've read many of the studies, but I'm still a skeptic. They often work but you can probably achieve the same thing by manipulating your own bacterial colonies to cure or prevent chronic disease. We don't really know how to do it yet, but there have been some really interesting findings. Understanding the microbiome is likely the next frontier in medicine. Sadly, like everything else, those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will fight against it and it will take years to over come the inertia of ignorance and stakes in current fads.

I have ate, drank, made merry (Mary too) and had a hell of a lot of fun in my life. I plan to continue until the very end with no regrets. I've lasted this long, so it's obvious to me that my life style has also made my bugs relatively happy as well. I certainly don't need to listen to some salesman selling quick "solutions" based on simplistic assumptions or fads from herds of buying sheep. The sad reality is that we don't really know how to prolong life and maintain a quality of life acceptable to the individual. So I'll just continue as I am, hope for the best, and keep looking for scientific studies that aren't designed to sell products.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

INFLAMMATION is a killer.
Take a small dose aspirin every day to reduce inflammation. Inflammation of the arterial walls is what causes you to have "the big one". If your arteries are not inflammed, clots and cholesterol wont form in arteries and cause heart attacks. Inflammation has also been linked to many other diseases.
I think all the other supplements are minimally effective at best. It costs $3 for a year's supply of aspirin.

I watched my father die right in front of me at 5 AM January 24 2011. It was the worst thing I ever saw. He died in a most grotesque way. My dad died over the course of about 1-2 years from heart disease and emphysema mostly from 60 years of smoking. He was thin, strong and ate pretty well. Statistics showed that smoking probably reduced his life by 9-10 years. I miss him, my kids miss him and my mom misses him.

Please dont smoke.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've heard that about the inflammation thing. A few study's suggest chronic inflammation could result in the start of a cancer. Not sure and I don't shorten my life span by worrying about it too much.

Interestingly enough though my wife see's a RPN by the name of Gina that suggests that I should be taking a baby aspirin a day along with the wife. The wife's specialist in Indy also recommends a baby or low dose aspirin a day for the spouses of his patients. Can't remember his exact title, but one of them is Adult Congenital Heart Defect specialist. Something along the lines of inflammation can lead to other problems even if it takes care of itself.

I probably should be taking the advice of the wife's RPN as she's a smart cookie and knows that not everybody is always flush with cash. She always prescribes generics and even writes down the generic name of any vitamins or supplements she wants Tammy to try. Last year a few weeks before we were supposed to leave for England Tammy came down with a pretty severe sinus infection, instead of prescribing antibiotics Gina sent Tammy to Walmart and told her to get a Neti pot, cleared her sinus infection up in a week with no expensive antibiotics. The Neti pot really helps as well if you use it soon as you start to feel that tickle in your nose or throat. What's old is new again I guess, they've used Neti pots in India for a few thousand years.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/neti-pot/AN01755

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_irrigation


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Healthy living is not a "fad" with me and my family.....its a lifestyle. I am a cancer survivor....and I am grateful. Good health to all.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My problem is I can't resist fatty foods. I'm not fat, but I'm sure I'm doing nasty things to my arteries. I love fried fish, steaks, burgers, bloomin onions, etc.. I DO take a baby aspirin per day. Have to be careful with stomach aches or bleeding though!
I heard red wine is really good for you. I like red wine, but if you knew me, a glass of red wine don't look as good in my hand as a Yeungling lager.
I must start drinking a glass per day. 
Gotta keep the cardiovascular system healthy.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Take the baby aspirin daily, BUT check with your Doctor first. It's been around since the late 1800's and it's only recently that they are starting to understand how it works. There are a number of conditions where aspirin can cause more harm than good. Also, don't take it if you are taking other NSAIDs at the same time. Just because something is sold over-the-counter doesn't make it safe. That started in the late '80's, early '90's when the pharm companies were losing patent protection and wanted to maintain the revenue streams so they got permission to sell over-the-counter at (usually) half prescription strength.

Red wine is oldest "medicine" going back past 2000 BC. I like a bit of 70% chocolate to enhance the antioxidants with mine. You need to move a lot further south JD where grease is one of the food groups. Although I guess some decent philly steaks will provide you with a pretty good amount.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I could live my life eating southern food. My aunt Leona lives in S Carolina along the coast in farm country. Her neighbor made battered fried catfish that you'd kill for. Hush puppies were great, too.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Vol said:


> Healthy living is not a "fad" with me and my family.....its a lifestyle. I am a cancer survivor....and I am grateful. Good health to all.


Mike, there is nothing wrong with that. My point is that current scientific knowledge is not sufficient to clearly define what "healthy living" really is. In the past (and often still today), many theories were/are derived through statistical correlation. Sadly correlation does not imply causation, but it's picked up by marketers and used to sell books on diets and things which people believed as fact and hence became "fads". A backlash against chemicals in our foods started the organic movement. Although I tend to dislike ingesting chemicals, I view "organic" as a fad because the majority of it's followers blindly accept it's benefits. Is it really better? Probably, but I've never seen proof, I don't think it's sustainable, and I'm not going to pay the higher prices for it.

When I was a kid, I was taught the smallest thing in the universe was an atom.....today we know about quarks, dark energy, quantum physics, etc. We are constantly learning more and finding that the things we believed in the past were often completely wrong....remember Margarine? Supposedly much healthier than butter, until people understood that some were loaded with trans fats. Sold a lot of margarine in the meantime though.

I eat and drink stuff because I like it. I typically avoid things because I either don't like them or I know they are so loaded with chemicals (most white bread in the US) they won't support life. Just by walking around my place, I get more exercise than my doctor (he's a friend, so I know and we both have a Fitbit).....He doesn't bitch at me. Is that healthy living? Hell, I don't know but I've lasted 67 years, I'm still paid to wander around the world on occasion, and I'm having a heck of a good time without having to worry about having to change my lifestyle to conform to the latest fads.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My opinion is its in your genetics. I've seen guys smoke drink and never exercise and live to 90 and seen guys in their 30 s that look healthy die from heart attacks. That must be a major part of it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> My opinion is its in your genetics. I've seen guys smoke drink and never exercise and live to 90 and seen guys in their 30 s that look healthy die from heart attacks. That must be a major part of it.


I'll agree with that. Another huge part is staying active.

My great grandfather lived to 97. Was never sick, never been in a hospital and was one of the biggest farmers around back in the day and still used horses to do it. Bought his first Oliver tractor with a two bottom plow, bought several more the next year and more land. Was still driving the baling tractor at 95 and helping with the milking, fell a few months before his 96th birthday and barely lasted another 14 months once he couldn't work anymore.

He had a pretty disgusting habit though and about made me gag, but he'd cut the fat off his steak or pork chops, then save it for last and eat it all. Said it was the best part. He was always thin as a rail though, just plain burned it off before it could catch up to him. His kids though decided working as hard as dad was for the birds and while they were all successful, by time they hit their mid sixties they'd be getting pretty pudgy and would start collecting social security instead of working, none of them made it very far in to their 80's.

I'm more like great grandpa, well except for the fat eating part, I like my meat lean. I can't stand to sit or be inactive. The 8 1/2 hour flight back from England just about drives me bugshit. I'm about ready to run laps down the isles 6 hours in. Like great grandfather as well, I can't stand fishing either, too much inactivity. Last time I went fishing once the beer was gone I was more than ready to head to shore. Keeping the books and paperwork is the bane of my existence which is why I'm constantly trying new stuff or ways to simplify and reduce the time required to keep a set of books up to date.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Like great grandfather as well, I can't stand fishing either, too much inactivity. Last time I went fishing once the beer was gone I was more than ready to head to shore.


Try fly fishing....especially for trout....lots of active exercise. Great places in Europe to fly fish on your next trip across the pond. Muskie fishing is also great exercise. Myself, I prefer to fly fish out in Teslan's country in the Rockies....kinda of spiritual out there. Lamar Valley in East Yellowstone is a dream.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Genes is part of it. Attitude, another part. Orneriness is antoher part.

3 of 4 of my grandparents lived to their late 80's/90's. My father lived to 85, worked 6 day weeks until he went to the hospital on Monday, died Wednesday. My mother lived to 91, decided it was time for her to check out, told me, died about two weeks later. My one grandfather walked on the back porch, looked over the farm (where I'm at now), told my uncle to take good care of the place 'cause he wouldn't be back, went the hospital , died 3 days later.

All of them worked hard, took little time to goof off, never expected anybody else to give them anything gratis, always offered to help, and were proud of what they did, what they accomplished, and the way they lived.

I heard a quote a while back that I have used to tailor my life: "I want to slide feet first into that grave, going _"Man, What a ride!"_

Ralph


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> Genes is part of it. Attitude, another part. Orneriness is antoher part.
> 
> 3 of 4 of my grandparents lived to their late 80's/90's. My father lived to 85, worked 6 day weeks until he went to the hospital on Monday, died Wednesday. My mother lived to 91, decided it was time for her to check out, told me, died about two weeks later. My one grandfather walked on the back porch, looked over the farm (where I'm at now), told my uncle to take good care of the place 'cause he wouldn't be back, went the hospital , died 3 days later.
> 
> ...


 Now that's the way to go. I hope to go the same. As a cancer survivor also I have changed my eating habits to be almost vegetarian with no dairy products besides some cheese every now and then. Never smoked never touched alcohol. Still got cancer. I feel I'm fairly active. I don't know if my diet will help me, but I have much less allergies then I used to. So it's all part of being healthy. Activity, attitude, diet, genes.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Dang you're makin me feel guilty for enjoying supper.I just got done with a large sirloin off the grill with potatos & onions wrapped in tin foil with 1/4 lb of butter.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Genes is part of it. Attitude, another part. Orneriness is antoher part.


I ran up to the grocery store yesterday to get a few things and ended up at the express checkout behind a woman on a motorized scooter. She looked to be in her 90's, didn't have many teeth left, had an oxygen tank, and all she bought was beer, cigarettes, and some snacks. For all I know she might have been in her 40's, but I had some relatives that survived to their late 80's and didn't need embalming 'cause they were already pickled.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Certainly is not anything wrong with occasional eating of red meat or drinking the fruit of the vine....or just a plain old cold one. But, as with all things, the key is to do all things in moderation. BTW, processed meats are highly suspected to be a direct link to prostate cancer.....but for all we know it could be a food preservative that has been used for years in our food or drink. Moderation is healthy living.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

My grandmother taught me to eat what tastes good to you because that's what your body needs. But, with marketing, food processing and additives nowadays, that may not be necessarily true.

Ralph


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I have a number of hot buttons on the food side...preservatives, pharmaceuticals and added sugar. Last time we lived in the Middle East and the UK before that, we used to buy bread every couple of days because it would mold pretty quick. When we moved back here we noticed that a loaf of bread could last weeks. It's so loaded with preservatives it won't support life. The Europeans seem to use a lot of irradiated food instead of loading it with preservatives, I don't know if that's any better. In the Middle East there is not much processed food, you go to the market every couple of days and get fresh.

I spent a lot of time in the plants that made human and Ag pharmaceuticals/chemicals. We had a plant in central PA where we made the active ingredient for pretty common Ag product. I'd have to put on a "bunny suit" to go into the unit and take a shower before I came out to keep the stuff contained.....then I'd come home and see my daughter and our vet covered with the stuff, worming our horses. Made another one in a NJ plant where we used to have to replace parts of the unit's structure every few years 'cause it corroded the steel so bad. Admittedly, I was dealing with concentrate, but I grew up eating beef that we raised on grass and didn't load with feedlot antibiotics or chemicals. It tasted a lot better than what you get at the store now days, or maybe I just remember it that way 'cause it was "free".

Sugar seems to be the ubiquitous ingredient for everything sold in the US. I expect it in desserts but often desserts have less sugar than the food that's marketed as "healthy" like yogurt and dried fruit . No wonder we're fat.....Rant over!


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

Mike120 said:


> . When we moved back here we noticed that a loaf of bread could last weeks. It's so loaded with preservatives it won't support life.


It tries to go bad but stops short of growing mold.
It smells like a bucket of latex paint.
Anybody else notice that?

CW


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Something I noticed from our few trips to the UK. Was going thru some of the wife's aunts stuff in her fridge, seems like their stuff has less ingredients and I could pronounce most of them. Even their ketchup had nothing in it I couldn't find in my own kitchen. Something along the lines of tomatoes, water, vinegar, spices and that's it. Got a bottle out here and listed high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, and "natural flavors".

I just think a lot of the stuff in the UK isn't processed to the extent stuff is here in the states.

With what I seen it isn't that they walk or ride bikes more than we do in the states (which they do btw) it's just the food is healthier as several places I could barely finish what was on my plate and I'm known as a chow hound at home. Tammy's thin as a rail 54 year old cousin had a few breakfasts that I could almost call breakfast and a light lunch at home.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think much of America just quit working 10-20 years ago. An overall sense of hopelessness set in and people just sit around and drown their sorrow in super size fries from mcD's. 
this hasn't happened to my family, but it has for more than a few I know.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

cwright said:


> I just think a lot of the stuff in the UK isn't processed to the extent stuff is here in the states.


It's a much smaller country so the food doesn't spend as much time in the distribution chain. The European Union also doesn't allow the level of preservatives that we do. However, all is not perfect as evidenced by the current horse meat scandal. Food is a little more expensive and because of the smaller appliances they tend to go to the markets more often. They have the big supermarkets like Tesco (which we loved) but they also still have a lot of small shops like butchers in almost every town. They also still have a "food appreciation" culture where they enjoy preparing, cooking and eating food. I learned some great recipes. Unfortunately, "fast food" seems to dominate here in the US and I think we've lost the family dinner tradition in our eat-and-run society.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Some of the best meals I ever had were in England. Especially like the Sunday roast. The cousins wife makes an excellent steak and ale pie.


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