# What year did the computers get added to tractors?



## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I have a small operation so I use older tractors. I have saved up $30,000 so far to put into a better tractor. I know this wont buy the best but should get me better than what I have now.

I am looking for something with 3 remotes, no less than 105 PTO horse power. I like a tractor with a lot of gears. I am only looking at 2 wheel drive.

This tractor will be the main mower and baler tractor.

I want to stay away from all the high tech electronics. So what years was the last of the good old iron before all he computers ect?

So not sure what years to look at. But this is what I was looking at so far.

I was looking at mostly Case IH.

Case 5250,

MXM130 maxxum

MX120 Maxxum


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## LukeS (Feb 24, 2015)

The MXM was made overseas I think so can be good and bad, MX was the start of the add a lot of electronics to them and some had problems, CIH the best would be the 7000 probably.


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## PaulN (Mar 4, 2014)

I have a 1993 Agco Allis. It already has some electronics in it, the governor for one thing.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

All three off those series have computer controllers on them, for the transmissions, ptos and three point. Non of them have a controller for the engine, for sure not the 5000 series and and MX. The MX is an evolution of the 5000 series with basically the same engine and transmission and similar controllers, but the MX has a cab that is an order of magnitude nicer. The 5000 series were all built in Doncaster England, the MX was built in Racine WI if is was for NA sale, in Doncaster if it was for the rest of the global market. The MXM was built in Basildon England and is completely different from the legacy Maxxum series, it comes from the NH side of the CNH merger. I had a TM version for a few years, decent enough tractor but the cab was outdated and cheaply built as was the electrical system. Of them all I would pick the MX120 with out much hesitation.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

LukeS said:


> The MXM was made overseas I think so can be good and bad,* MX was the start of the add a lot of electronics to them* and some had problems, CIH the best would be the 7000 probably.


There isn't really a great deal of difference in the level of electronics from a power shift 5140 to an MX135. The MX series does have a level of self diagnostics that I don't think the 5000s have.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

When we're looking at new midsize tractors in 2013 I believe the T S Series in New Holland in some models had very little computerized. He still had the mechanical PTO and things like that. But then in those models you're not going to end up with a powershift transmission with good speed selection like you said.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Depends on the trim level of the TS/40 series. The base were stripped down mechanical but the higher spec had computer for reverser, transmission, hitch and dash.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

The synchro transmission in a 5000 or MX series Maxxum would reduce the potential for electronic problems and the sychnro trans is far more durable than the power shift from a mechanical standpoint as well. They both have the same number of speeds and pretty much the same gear ratios as well. I have run both and can't really say I think one is somehow always better than the other from a operator's point of view. The synchros are rather rare though and not an option on the MX135.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I had a few minutes at lunch. Looked op the Case 7110. There are a lot for sale. How about input on this one? How is the 18 speed transmission?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

The 18 speed is as bullet proof as you can get. Engine is reliable and tight on fuel. Just not as handy as the smaller series. The 7110 has some lighter final drive components than the larger models but that should not matter to you. 
I personally prefer using a partial power shift over the full power shift but that's me.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Honestly a 7110 is way too big for a haying tractor for the average guy. Not saying I wouldn't buy one but honestly it's on the heavier side and more fuel. An MX is a good performer, I have one and wouldn't hesitate buying another (shooting myself in the foot because that will keep the prices high).

Electronic gremlins while they can be fussy, it's really not that hard to overcome. The MX is more electrical circuit than computer boards. It's usually something as simple as a sensor, switch or solenoid. Fair warning though, when you get into this level of tractors, parts can run $200 plus.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

All depends on what you want to call a computer...

Our old MF4880 had an electronic control if you had a three point hitch...

Gotta get real old school if you want zero computers or electronics. Newest thing on the farm with zero electronics on it would probably be our Oliver 1955.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

BWfarms said:


> Honestly a 7110 is way too big for a haying tractor for the average guy. Not saying I wouldn't buy one but honestly it's on the heavier side and more fuel. An MX is a good performer, I have one and wouldn't hesitate buying another (shooting myself in the foot because that will keep the prices high).
> 
> Electronic gremlins while they can be fussy, it's really not that hard to overcome. The MX is more electrical circuit than computer boards. It's usually something as simple as a sensor, switch or solenoid. Fair warning though, when you get into this level of tractors, parts can run $200 plus.


For the most part I agree. Fuel consumption between an MX and a 7000 Magnum doing the same work will probably be awful close though. The 8.3 is a pretty efficient engine. I've been around both for a few years now. Comparing the two, an MX is nicer to operate for the most part, but like it or not I think the Magnum will cost less to own long term.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

The input so far indacates the 7110 is to big for haying tractor. So I look on TractorData.com. to find out why. What I come up with is the wheelbase is 118 inch long. 8 Inches longer than 5250, MX120, White 2-105. The weight is less than the 5250 coming in at 16,000 LBS to the 15300 of the 7110. The MX120 is the lightest at 11,300. The white is 11,800.

So is the suggestion's because of the length? I would think the turning radius is bigger so not as useful for making hay.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

No, the weight. Compaction is a concern for me. Hay fields are traveled on 
over and over.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Tractordata's info has to be taken with a degree of suspicion. The 5250 does not weigh 16,000, it would be very similar to the MX120, should actually be a shade lighter as the MXs have heavier forward frames. A 7110 is more like 16,000. They are heavier than the Maxxums by quite a bit. I wouldn't get too hung up on that though. If the tires spread out the weight its not a problem. I see a lot more damage from tires on heavy balers and loaded wagons than tractors.

Off the top of my head, some tractor weights as I've seen them on the scale:

My MX170, MFD with a loader and spear, full tank of fuel, no extra ballast--18,500lb

My MX150, MFD, bare tractor--about 15,000, maybe 16,000

Brothers 2wd 7140, no dual or ballast --17,000

Brothers MFD 7140, no duals but full rack of front weights--around 21,000


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> If the tires spread out the weight its not a problem. I see a lot more damage from tires on heavy balers and loaded wagons than tractors.


Agree 100%.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

A longer wheel based tractor will give a better ride.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

It seems to be down to 5250 or The MX120.

Looked at MX135 is closer to the PTO HP at 115 to the 112 PTO of the 5250.

Looks like the 5250 has doors on both sides and interior a little more dated. Sounds like the 5250 is heaver than the MX120.

Seems like the transmission and shifting are close.

What are other considerations should I be looking at?

Other brand I should I be looking at before I lock in?

I wanted to add how I want to use for cutting and baling hay. Going down the headlands I want to seed up to save time. Also when baling going to windrows to windrows that are getting farther apart. Or getting over to the outside round ect. So the one better for shifting up and down would be best?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

All else being equal the 5250 and the MX120 should be very close in weight.

All legacy Maxxums have trouble with the park brake getting burned out by operators driving with it engaged. The lever should not travel real far before engaging, and the alarm should blast your ears out if you attempt to drive off with the park on. Also all legacy Maxxums eventually have trouble with the PTO, specifically with the mechanism that shifts between 540 and 1000. There is no good way to check the condition of that, besides switching the stub shaft between speeds and making sure everything feels right.

The transmissions are the same between the 5000 series and the MX. Only difference to the operator is that the power shift is a lever on the 5000 and a thumb switch incorporated into the range lever on the MX. 5100 and the first half of the 5200 don't have neutral in the shuttle. Since you are looking at a 2wd 5250 I will bet it is an early one with no N. For some reason very few 2wd 5250s were sold after the N was added.

I like the 2wd front axle of the MX a lot better than the 5000s. It comes straight from the 2wd Magnum.

MX lights are better.

MX cab is nicer as you have observed. The 5000 cab is well enough though. Huge improvement over some of the early tractor cabs.

The MX engine is iso mounted which contributes to the quiet cab. The downside is there is a U joint coupling and torsional damper between the engine and trans. They will wear out. If there is vibration that seems to be engine speed related it could that coupling or damper.

The cab is situated higher on the MX. 2 steps into the 5000 series cab, 3 into the MX.

The MX has a little more hydraulic pressure and a lot more flow, 40% more if I recall correctly.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

The MX engine is iso mounted which contributes to the quiet cab. The downside is there is a U joint coupling and torsional damper between the engine and trans. They will wear out. If there is vibration that seems to be engine speed related it could that coupling or damper.

So this fix sounds like it would not be just an afternoon fix. What needs to be done to repair the coupling? Cab off?

I wonder how long it takes dealer to get cab off?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

The cab does not need to come off. Remove the exhaust stack, the shielding around the coupling, the plate over the flywheel and there it is. Ag Parts has the component to fix them, and way cheaper than CIH.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Ok so the coupling sounds like a do at farm job if needed. What about the PTO if that goes out? Farm or dealer?

The emergency break if needs repair, dealer fix. Because you need to split tractor. How much is this bill?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

The park brake on the 2WD 5100, 5200 and MX Maxxums can be renewed without splitting the tractor. There is a "window" on the right side of the transmission housing that allows access to the park brake. The right wheel should be removed to do this, and I'm told reaching in and replacing the parts is awkward, but it is possible. Looks like the cost to replace everything associated with the park brake is around $700 in parts. The PTO R&R on these tractors is not particularly difficult technically, but it is time consuming due to the large size of the PTO housing and all the components attached to it that have to be removed and reinstalled, plus everything needs to be cleaned thoroughly prior to getting worked on. Some kind of lift is needed as the PTO housing is large and heavy. Last time I went into my MX135 I replaced every part in the picture below to the tune of about $2000 in parts. McCormick has the same parts with better quality and lower cost I'm told. Figure a day to remove the PTO housing, half a day to do repairs, and a day to reinstall the housing.








The problem that usually develops with these PTOs involves that pin you can see in what we call the slide ring that sits on the drive tube. Those pins go through the drive tube and connect the slide ring to the slide tube. As things wear that hold the reversible stub shaft in place, the resulting end play begins to hammer on those pins and they either wear into the slide tube or work their way back out in the slide ring and disengage from the slide tube. End result is a PTO stuck in neutral between 540 and 1000.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> F0716D5D-A243-4B53-970D-049390206B66.jpeg
> 
> The problem that usually develops with these PTOs involves that pin you can see in what we call the slide ring that sits on the drive tube. Those pins go through the drive tube and connect the slide ring to the slide tube. As things wear that hold the reversible stub shaft in place, the resulting end play begins to hammer on those pins and they either wear into the slide tube or work their way back out in the slide ring and disengage from the slide tube. End result is a PTO stuck in neutral between 540 and 1000.


Very interesting ! That ring is only holding on buy pin going through it? I cant see if the ring is also goes over spline in shaft. So the hammering must be from front to back of tractor. It is nice to know this fix could be done in barn.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

So i cant see the differents in engine specks from the MX120 and the MX135. I am assuming the tractors are the same except HP speck. How did they get this just turn up pump?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

TORCH said:


> So i cant see the differents in engine specks from the MX120 and the MX135. I am assuming the tractors are the same except HP speck. How did they get this just turn up pump?


The engines are pretty much the same, turbo 6 cylinder CDC with a Bosch inline pump. I think the radiator has slightly more capacity on the MX135 and the injection pump has an aneroid that the MX120 does not have and of course a little more fuel. Not of great interest to you if you go with 2wd but the MFD axle is a little heavier on the MX135 as well.



TORCH said:


> Very interesting ! That ring is only holding on buy pin going through it? I cant see if the ring is also goes over spline in shaft. So the hammering must be from front to back of tractor. It is nice to know this fix could be done in barn.


The slide ring engages splines on the drive tube. The "teeth" on the outside of the slide ring engage either the 540 driven gear or the 1000 driven gear depending on the position of the slide ring. The only thing controlling the position of the slide ring is those two pins. Basically it is a very simple gearshift, and as you correctly suggest it is fore/aft hammering that hurt this thing. Same thing as if you were to jerk back and forth constantly on the gear shift lever of a manual transmission. The Euro version of these tractor ought to have far less trouble with this assembly as they do not have those pins to control the slide ring, instead using a shifting fork connected to an operator controled lever in the cab. So there is no connection of any kind to the reversible stub shaft.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I find a MX135 MFWD in my home town. I dont need 4 wheel but 2 wheels are hard to find. Do i hold out or go for one with 4 wheel?

I would use for Hay tractor so turning radius does come into play. How much is the difference?

Weight also but don't think the difference is that much. Perhaps no weights up front needed? lol lol


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

If you are on hilly ground there and depending on what mower and baler you are pulling with it. I would at least consider it depending of course on price and condition.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

In my opinion MFD is worth it. Speaking with very fresh experience, MFD rides much nicer on rough ground. I have one each of 2wd and MFD for baling tractors, with the wheels set out the MFD turns almost as tight as the 2wd, there is no noticeable difference during field operation. There are stops on the steering that need to be adjusted depending on the track width. I would recommend not using the sharpest steering angle that those axles are capable of, hard on the components and not necessary for a tight turn. MFDs do need maintenance and upkeep. Check the plugs in the front planetaries for any sign of metal filings; that or evidence of oil leakage out the back seal means its time to rebuild the hub. Last time I did one I think it was about $1200 in parts, that was bearings, seals and bushings for both sides. It's not a particularly difficult job.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Gearclash

I don't know were you live. But I need to offer free labor for the opportunity to drive your tractor's. Lol lol lol

I'm planning on going to dealer to give this tractor a look. I'm not sure how interested I am in a machine with over 9000 hours. For almost $30,000. I think it is the only one on Tractor House in Wisconsin. The MX135 . 15 miles from my house.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I find another possabillity but it only has two remotes.

Queastion is!

It looks simple enough to add the third remote. Or is this not as easy as getting remote and linkage? More to it than that?

This tractor has the empty spot in the cab console.

This question is for MX120 or MX135

Perhaps someone has good parts they don't need. For reasonable price?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I don't think its particularly difficult to add a remote. The remote valve itself could be some $$$, I would check with some salvage yards. Anything from an MX100-MX170 will work, but be aware that the #1 remote on those tractors is supposed to be set up a little different than the others in that it is the priority valve and I think the load check valves are different. I'd have to look in the books but I think the valves can be configured how you want them. Might have to take the valve stack off the tractor to remove the upper end plate and add the 3rd block.


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you Gearclash for all your helpfull information.

I went to dealer today to check out the MX135. This was the first time I was up close to one. Perfect size tractor, to bad not much room for buddy seat. But that could be imprivised some how. This tractor has 9140 hours on it. The cab was really rusty under the rear fenders back by rear lights. The front hood was missing paint ect. I was surprised I did not find any dripping leaks. All in all the tractor showed its age including inside cab. There was other equipment around that would have to be moved to test this one out.

I wasn't willing to spend almost $30,000 on this so I didn't ask for a test drive. I may go back to get a feel for the shifting ect. But would call a head so they will have it pulled out.

I did look close at the remotes and don't look to bad of a job to add one. I did see some of the electrical wires going to various places. don't look to bad at getting to.

With Gearclash input I did look at the break leaver. It goes a long way before it stops, also looked at. The coupler between the engine and trans. I can see what your talking about on that.

All in all I think this would be a great up grade for me. Will just have to wait for the right one comes buy. I will look harder at local farm auctions ect. I hope I can find one from the owner and not a dealer.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Have you considered looking at other brands? Of course its your choice, but for $30,000 you can get a much low houred tractor with 4WD full cab-maybe even a powershift or a loader.

I picked up a Kubota M-135X with 2700 hours, powershift and 4WD for $25,000, I just saw a New Holland TS-135 with 4WD, deluxe cab and a Miller loader sell for $40,000 with only 2500 hours. Really nice tractor.

All the big M Kubotas have "Bi-Speed" turning. The outer wheel spins faster than the inner wheel for extremely tight turning with 4WD. All of them also have front lockable differentials along with rear locking differentials. The bigger Kubotas all have a space for a buddy seat, too. They also have a 16 speed powershift with 8 push button gears in 2 ranges, so you rarely have to shift. I'm not saying theyre the best tractor in the world or anything, but theyre very well equipped for the money.

Most (not all) tractors with 9000 hours are very close to the end of its' life cycle and could have engine, trans, pump, axle, brake failures at any time. You'll need to be sure to have thousands on hand for parts or repairs.

I like the CaseIH tractors a lot too, but if you open up to other brands, you immediately drop the price you'll have to pay. If there's one thing I learned about hay farming, its that "hay dont pay" and you really need to get good deals on equipment. Case/IH seems to fetch a premium only second to JD in the American brands.

Check out McCormick and Kubota, too. Good haying tractors at noticeably lower prices. Theres also good deals on Agco/Allis/White tractors many of which have Cummins diesels. .


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