# Skillled labor



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So just got done reading an article about the owner of a local tool and die shop opening his own training school as he can't find enough skilled labor. Surely the tool and die industry can't be the only field that pays well but doesn't require a college education?

The notion that everybody has got to attend college as working with your hands is beneath somebody is sickening.

The most sickening thing of all? Obama is all bend out of shape about the potential for the student loan interest rate to go up, yet he doesn't seem to care about what the taxpayers owe individually to cover HIS deficit.

/end rant


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Well said!!!


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## TheFastMan (Sep 3, 2011)

A friend of mine is working at a magnesium plant as a machinery maintenance guy and is making big bucks with no college education. I was talking to an unemployed tool and die maker the other day at work. He said he was with one company for decades and they just offed him because they could hire younger guys at lower rates. Yes, you can make good money without going to college, but if my friend gets fired, who else is going to hire him? I see tons of applications at our TSC store where guys who were once working $20+/hr manufacturing jobs are now applying for an $8/hr job. These days a lot of jobs won't even consider you without a degree of some sort. Plus, getting a masters degree will up your pay. Granted, the economy has a lot to do with this and lots of these manufacturing jobs are overseas, but do you think they will ever come back? My grandpa passed last August and essentially died a millionaire. He worked for Oldsmobile for over 50 years, was a Navy vet, and never even finished high school. Sad to say, but this isn't grandpa's world anymore and those kind of stories are going to be rare for my generation.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

Whether or not I was ready for change was questionable but there is no question this election whether or not I want change!!!! Another factor on employment I see is peoples willingness to change or relocate. Living in the northern plains on the edge of the balkin formation, there is lots of jobs for anyone ready to work. I could use some help myself and am a little worried that I may be in a corner.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

TheFastMan said:


> A friend of mine is working at a magnesium plant as a machinery maintenance guy and is making big bucks with no college education. I was talking to an unemployed tool and die maker the other day at work. He said he was with one company for decades and they just offed him because they could hire younger guys at lower rates. Yes, you can make good money without going to college, but if my friend gets fired, who else is going to hire him? I see tons of applications at our TSC store where guys who were once working $20+/hr manufacturing jobs are now applying for an $8/hr job. These days a lot of jobs won't even consider you without a degree of some sort. Plus, getting a masters degree will up your pay. Granted, the economy has a lot to do with this and lots of these manufacturing jobs are overseas, but do you think they will ever come back? My grandpa passed last August and essentially died a millionaire. He worked for Oldsmobile for over 50 years, was a Navy vet, and never even finished high school. Sad to say, but this isn't grandpa's world anymore and those kind of stories are going to be rare for my generation.


Hate to you tell this, but once you get to a certain age, a degree won't cover your butt either. I know several guys that are engineers, the company's they worked for either downsized or moved out of state. They are just the right age that their health might start to decline so companies won't hire them due to possible future insurance costs. Your right of course, why hire the older guy with tons of experience but might end up costing you in health insurance when their is younger guys fresh out of school/college who will work for less and might have minimum health insurance needs for decades? All falls back on how messed up our health care/insurance providers are.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Hate to you tell this, but once you get to a certain age, a degree won't cover your butt either. I know several guys that are engineers, the company's they worked for either downsized or moved out of state. They are just the right age that their health might start to decline so companies won't hire them due to possible future insurance costs. Your right of course, why hire the older guy with tons of experience but might end up costing you in health insurance when their is younger guys fresh out of school/college who will work for less and might have minimum health insurance needs for decades? All falls back on how messed up our health care/insurance providers are.


You guys are going through the same thing that happened in Canada 10 to 15 years ago. Just looking at the cost of workers and not the value of them. Most places around here have started to realize the value of experience. And the companies that have not most of them have gone broke and taken over by someone else. That type of thinking may look good for a company in the short term but will run then into the ground in the long run.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

I went to a trade school and paid as I went. Now I make more then some of my friends that went to college. But what really burns me is some of these people with a mountain of student loans that want the government to use my tax dollars to bail them out because it is societys falut that they can not find a job. Even if their degree is in ancient Japanese architecture.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

mlappin said:


> So just got done reading an article about the owner of a local tool and die shop opening his own training school as he can't find enough skilled labor. Surely the tool and die industry can't be the only field that pays well but doesn't require a college education?
> 
> The notion that everybody has got to attend college as working with your hands is beneath somebody is sickening.
> 
> ...


Some of you will agree with this some wont. But one reason I believe there is a shortage of skilled workers is a a lot of the union shops that had apprenticeships are gone . Say what you want about unions good or bad but the big companies with unions would keep their people up to date . Some of those guys would stay , some leave for one reason or another . Working as a industrial electrician we were always having classes on something because the company would be buying new equipment that was the latest and greatest .


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

I grew up near Windsor, Ontario, this is (was) the tool and die capital of North America when I was in school. Because of the proximity to Motown, and the number of auto plants in Windsor and the high American dollar this made a very price effective buy for the big three. Many people that I went to school with became tool and mould/die makers, which is a licensed trade in Canada, and does offer very good wages. It had to in order to attract people from the factory jobs that pay $27 an hour to install the front left headlight on the line. But because of our high dollar and the slow economy in the US and very light business for the big 3, many of my friends are out of work, laid off or doing something else. 
There will always be a need for people who can work with their hands, there just needs to be a way to make a living while doing it. The economy is a fickle thing.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Chessiedog said:


> Some of you will agree with this some wont. But one reason I believe there is a shortage of skilled workers is a a lot of the union shops that had apprenticeships are gone . Say what you want about unions good or bad but the big companies with unions would keep their people up to date . Some of those guys would stay , some leave for one reason or another . Working as a industrial electrician we were always having classes on something because the company would be buying new equipment that was the latest and greatest .


I did some work a few years ago looking at skilled labor for a West Coast refinery construction project. At the time the Boilermakers had the best apprenticeship program....they graduated about 23%. A union official told me that in the most recent class they started, they had lost over 50% by the first week either by dropout or failed drug tests. I expect that the ones that left the program went on to get welfare. Unfortunately, this has been happening for years. Kids don't learn to work with their hands anymore, because cars, etc are too complex now days with all the computerization and they don't see their parents ever doing it. We don't fix many things anymore, we just throw it away and get a new one. If they go to college, they get a degree in history, psychology, or ethnic studies instead of engineering, math or the sciences and can't understand why no one will hire them. I had a kid with a psychology degree cleaning stalls.....he was completely useless. At that same time, a large construction project on the Gulf Coast was bringing in Welders from Asia because they couldn't get enough locally. In their day, unions served a need and had decent training programs. So did the Trade Schools. Unfortunately, we changed our education system to send everyone to college but we didn't increase our graduation rate. Concurrently, we shifted to a "service economy" so the ones who don't graduate have nothing left to do but flip burgers. Agriculture is probably the only "industry" left where we still fix things and try to pass on a work ethic and knowledge to our children. We are the 2%.....and getting smaller every day.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> Unfortunately, we changed our education system to send everyone to college but we didn't increase our graduation rate. Concurrently, we shifted to a "service economy" so the ones who don't graduate have nothing left to do but flip burgers. Agriculture is probably the only "industry" left where we still fix things and try to pass on a work ethic and knowledge to our children. We are the 2%.....and getting smaller every day.


We had a kid last fall that tried to help for a bit. Worked for a local BTO before, couldn't change oil, couldn't even refill a grease gun. Was completely useless for anything but driving a tractor, then complained about that as our tractors didn't have MP3 players built into the radio. His excuse was his former employer either traded it off or took everything to the dealer when it needed repairs/service so not even all of those that are left of American farmers are really part of the 2%.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> . In their day, unions served a need and had decent training programs. So did the Trade Schools. Unfortunately, we changed our education system to send everyone to college but we didn't increase our graduation rate. Concurrently, we shifted to a "service economy" so the ones who don't graduate have nothing left to do but flip burgers. Agriculture is probably the only "industry" left where we still fix things and try to pass on a work ethic and knowledge to our children. We are the 2%.....and getting smaller every day.


I agree with you on the ( service to the rich economy plan ) that's failing miserably . How can you have a economy and produce nothing ? I disagree with you on the unions . I know of to many people that need bargaining rights . For lots of reasons other than money .

There is just to few places for kids to start learning how to turn a wrench or what ever it might be . I learned how to change oil in a full service garage , not many of them anymore . Heck even the sack boys at grocery store are far an few between . You would think in a so called ( service economy ) we would have some service , but we have very little that I can see .


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Chessiedog said:


> I agree with you on the ( service to the rich economy plan ) that's failing miserably . How can you have a economy and produce nothing ?


That's something a majority of people anywhere in the world doesn't understand about government either. Governments don't produce anything, nothing, zip. They take and redistribute. Governments call it taxes yet if I do the same and take money from someone against their will and redistribute it to pay bills or buy stuff, its a felony. Unfortunately though we seem to have a growing number of people in this country who feel they should have to do nothing and have all their wants covered by the government. Call me a ultra conservative or even a hard*ss, but my feeling is if your willing to do nothing, then you should have nothing, period.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I grew up the son of a builder. My father just passed away recently. He wanted me to go to college. I wanted to work for and eventually take over his business. I loved working with my hands. He won out and off I went to college. Great experience, learned much. 
After I graduated, I went to "work". Hated every day of it wishing I was working with my dad building homes. I finally quit my job and showed up with my head down and asked if I could work for him again, he gave me a job again that day. Shortly thereafter, I'll never forget the day he said "If I had known this was going to happen, I never would have sent you to college". I wanted to scream. 
Now I own my own building business I started on my own and a farming business. He would not allow me to "take over" his business. Thought it would spoil me. I value my degree, but wish I could have had the 5 years I wasted letting liberal professors try to convince me to vote democrat for 5 years of valuable on the job apprenticeship with my dad. I would have "made it" much sooner. I always feel like those 5 years actually slowed my progress. 
What I am saying is there's no shame in learning a trade, farming, construction, etc. Going to college is by no means a cure-all. It really gaurantees you nothing except a lot of debt.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Now I own my own building business I started on my own and a farming business. He would not allow me to "take over" his business. Thought it would spoil me. I value my degree, but wish I could have had the 5 years I wasted letting liberal professors try to convince me to vote democrat for 5 years of valuable on the job apprenticeship with my dad. I would have "made it" much sooner. I always feel like those 5 years actually slowed my progress.
> What I am saying is there's no shame in learning a trade, farming, construction, etc. Going to college is by no means a cure-all. It really gaurantees you nothing except a lot of debt.


I was listening to Rush Limbaugh one day last year, he said to make a liberal it takes four years of college and a huge debt, to make a conservative just send em to a Fourth of July parade for free.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I will tell you straight up I go out of my way to listen to Rush-even so far as to rearranging my work schedule to listen to his show while I work. 
The man is a genius and a patriot.
Ever hear him tell stories about his father? He was a P-51 pilot.
I suppose I'm "out" as a conservative......


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