# Well that Kuhn Disc Mower Condiitoner might not have been a bargain after all, blown condition roller :-(



## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Well the seasons over but we found a big problem with the used Kuhn FC 243 RTG mower my wife bought back in the Spring. Let me say first that it's done a great job of mowing after replacing the hydraulic hoses, knives and getting it adjusted correctly after some trial and error.

Link to first post about getting the mower.

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/18999-my-wife-picked-up-a-kuhn-disc-mower-conditioner-pics-inside/

Now for the problem. I was helping her clean it up after she and our son finished mowing the last 28 acres and as we were turning the turtles and blasting all the crud out from under them and cleaning everything out from underneath I noticed there was a chunk of the lower conditioning roller missing. I looked at the other end and it too had a chunk missing. I told her when she decided to buy it that the rollers had what looked to be dry rot cracks in them but they didn't look to be all that deep. We have a 30 year Haybine here with the original rollers and they still look and work fine so we figured they would be ok for at least a few years. I guess we were wrong. It's mowed somewhere around 85 acres since we got it and supposedly it had only mowed less that 200 acres by the previous owner, by the looks of the paint wear I'd say that's fairly accurate.

Does this appear to be from dry rot cracks or did something get ran through it, besides the skunk, that might have contributed to this? We're not sure how old it is but the loose leaf paper printed off manual is dated 2006. Anyone know if Kuhn had problems with rollers back then or anything like that or if Kuhns rollers are of poorer quality than other brands?





































Next question is do we buy new rollers from Kuhn at the tune of about $4600-$5500 a pair, prices from several dealers, plus installation by our local independent mechanic or get them recovered by the folks at Circle C for $2700 plus installation, if done during the Winter months Circle C will pay the freight both ways. I talked with the guy at Circle C for about 30 minutes Thursday and he seems very knowledgeable. He said the cores can only be covered once as they have to sand the thin wall tubing down to bare metal before recovering and a second recovering is nearly impossible. If we order the OEM rollers from one nearby dealer in the middle of Oct. they'll take care of the freight, some sorta Fall program they run once a year. I'd like to have the entire machine looked over for gear wear and all before she puts that kind of money in it. The rear gearbox that drives the rollers and cutterbar seems to be venting a bit of oil either from getting too warm or too much oil in it. I'm not sure the previous owner was completely truthful on how it was stored and how many acres it had mowed. The serial # seems quite low and I'm going to do some checking tomorrow to try and find out how old it really is.

BTW: On a final note she has finally admitted that she won't go back to the Haybine after using a Disc Mower ;-)

Also there was more hay made here than ever before and I figure the Oats hay and Soybean and Millet hay is of such good quality that to us it's worth $40-50 a roll in our mind, so with 200 more bales this year than ever before I figure the mower has nearly paid for itself already, not that she sells any hay but you get the picture.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

No way I'd pay that kind of money for OEM replacements. That seems crazy high.

Your decision probably depends on how much you (or your wife, whatever) like the mower. Your realistic options as I see them are: rolls recovered, just deal with it, or sell mower to someone who isn't worried about a few chunks out and buy a different machine. I'd probably go aftermarket if: I really like the way it works; I think it will suit me for at least a few more years; and I wouldn't end up too far upside down on the investment if for some reason I had to sell it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I would definitely check the lower roller bearings at the least. It appears that it is possible that the roller moved forward somehow and struck the curved steel shield(the point) that is in front of each end of the rollers causing the lower roller to "chunk out" on each end.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Looks like a pinch point for rocks, rocks are how the laminated ones gets started peeling here. Given its at the corners it may not progress any further. Our NH lost a piece in the middle and within 20 acres the whole thing was a mess and couldn't mow without wrapping.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Here is another you can check out.

http://bdrollers.com/


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

So for recovering rolls who is better. Circle C or B&D rolls. My rolls in my kuhn are fine but I have been thinking about recovering them to get better conditioning and faster drying time.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hog, great question. I'm sure those companies have done side-by-side tests against factory rolls but have they tested directly against their competition?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> Hog, great question. I'm sure those companies have done side-by-side tests against factory rolls but have they tested directly against their competition?


Both companies rolls are so very similar I doubt if there are any real measurable differences in conditioning. Probably the most important question is, which one will last the longest?

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

You know it does seem quite possible that a hard object could have got lodged between the steel plate and the roller which would have took the chunk of rubber out. Especially since the only place where the rubber is coming off is on each side behind the steel plate. I wonder what the purpose of the curved steel plate on each side is anyway.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I think the guards are supposed to keep hay off the stub shafts at the ends. My Pottinger has them on the end turtle where the driveshaft come in.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Well we did a lot driving and talking yesterday, 2 dealerships and numerous phone calls, even one to Kuhn HQ in the US. Wife said that was more tiring than making hay ;-) we were gone for 7 or 8 hours. Anyway we drove to Asheboro where there's one of the largest Kuhn dealers in the area. I asked a friend who to talk to down there as he buys all his equipment from this dealership and he gave me a name. We all sat down and I showed the photos and videos of the machine running and his suggestion was to fix it. He said, "I'm here to sell equipment but I can tell by looking at the photos that your machine doesn't have a lot of acreage on it". Wife and son aren't beyond buying a new machine but this one runs mighty good and they like it. He said, "You're only the second person to come in with a delaminated roller on that series of Kuhn since they been selling them and he said we've moved a bunch of those machines. He also noted he sells more Flail machines than Roller. He said it's one of 2 things either severely dry rotted rollers, which they appear to be, or someone ran something through it, probably a tree limb 3" or better at some point. He said once you run something large and rigid through one rubber or urethane has to give/expand to the point at or near separation from the steel underneath and that's when you start to see failure, he said it may not show up right away but likely will at some point. They had one come in in about the same shape, still under warranty, with a chunk missing from the roller and the Kuhn Rep came in and looked at it and the Rep and the mower owner actually knew each other and asked him what did you run through it and the guy said what do you mean and the guy finally said he ran a tree limb through it about as big around as your arm.

Wife and this guy talked at length about what would he do and even about buying a new machine, a new JD with rollers is about $25K. He said one way or the other your going to pay to get it fixed, you're not going to get top dollar out of it if you try and sell it like it is and if you trade it in I'm going to have fix it before I can sell it and make anything off of it. Believe it or not James River has the best price on replacement rollers as anyone at $2187 a piece. Out of curiosity I asked what new rollers for a JD 630 would cost, they're over $2600 a piece. The closest James River to the farm said they could do free freight because they need to stock up on quite a few things, rake wheels and such so they felt sure with our order they could do free freight.

On a note: After talking to some one in Parts and someone in Product at Kuhn HQ they either don't know how to talk to the public or are not very friendly. Getting anything at all out of them is like pulling eye teeth. They Product guy did tell me that the Serial # matched up as being a 2003 model so it's a bit older than what we were told.

Also the local Territory Manager for Kuhn I talked to said this line of Mower Conditioners is being phased out and a new line is being field tested right now and should be on the market by Spring. He said it's pretty a new much machine from the ground up.

So that's where we stand right now.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

So you're fixing it with Kuhn parts or aftermarket?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Would flail conditioners be cheaper or do as good of a job? Can they be swapped over?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm gonna guess to convert to flail is more money. Quite a few parts, unless you robbed a junk machine.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

It's going to get Kuhn rollers.

As far as a Flails he sorta explained it to us this way, he rattled off so much I can't remember it all. Flails act more as a fan than anything and the adjustable hood and adjustable fingers/comb and the crop brushing against itself does more conditioning than the flail fingers. He said our Tedder would do more damage to the Oats hay and the Soybeans and Millet than a set of Flails. He also said he's seen Flails actually wrap up on really tall crops, 4'- 6', because the flails acting as a fan will pull the crop into them before it's cut off but he still sells 9 Flail machines for every Roller machine.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Then make sure you advertise your used ones. One man's trash is another's treasure.


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