# need some help with electricity solutions



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Heres the deal. Our power bill used to be $150 then they put in new meters and now its climbed to over $400 a month. What im considering is buying a pto generator and putting the old crappy tractor on it and just let it run. I figure it would burn alot less then 4 in diesel. Also considering a small windmill or solar. Any other suggestions or suggestions about the 3 I mentioned? Im sick of paying so much. I want to go off the grid but still have power. I know alot better things I can spend 5k a year on. Thanks guys.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I have been recently reading a lot about windmills. Putting up your own to run the farmstead and selling the excess to the local coop or power company. Looks like the price is starting to come down some but it's a long term thing that could include tax credits. Don't know how it is with the Queen tho. If you figure it out, let us know. thanks


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

I'm a retired electrical engineer and in a previous life, I commissioned & serviced generator sets - much larger units than what would be used at a home or farm but same principles apply. If you're burning fossil fuel (like a PTO generator would) there's no way you can produce electricity as cheaply as the utility. The utility industry is actually highly subsidized and they enjoy economies of scale so forget about it.

As far as solar or wind, expect a very high initial cost. But if you're in the game for 20 years, the numbers could work out over the long run.

Are you sure your new electric meter is accurate?

Gary


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

They have a big thing going now. Investigating the power company. They say our province is paying triple of all others. Our actual power last month cost $180 then they have a delivery charge of $170 tax and a few other bonuses brought it to $419. They call the meters smart meters. I think they are a scam. I have talked to several neighbors and they say it jumped to. You think the old tractor couldnt run it cheaper? I dont really like the massive industrial windmills. I know they have problems with stray voltage etc. Maybe a little one is no better. What are other options. I plan on sticking around here so if it pays off in the end its worth it. A guy told me payback can be in 5 years if I pay that much now (25k for a new system he says) never priced one though.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Did your usage rise that much? Around here they don't raise the rate per kwh they add another delivery charge. Our fees taxes and delivery charges now exceed our actual usage. Check your draw under load and that will tell you if the new meter is accurate.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Guess you answered that as I was typingLoL well pecking really :lol:


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

hillside hay said:


> Did your usage rise that much? Around here they don't raise the rate per kwh they add another delivery charge. Our fees taxes and delivery charges now exceed our actual usage. Check your draw under load and that will tell you if the new meter is accurate.


Here in Illinois, they have separated out electricity production and electricity delivery. Theoretically, you can buy your electricity from Company A and have it delivered by Company B.

This then helps the electric company, who usually owns both other "companies" from having to deal with the state regulators about rate increases on the delivery side because its the production that is rate controlled. Not surprising, the total amount paid is more than it used to be!

Ralph

The figures don't lie, but liars can figure!


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

They have 3 different prices. Off peak which is 7c 7pm to 7am. Cant remember the middle one its 9.5c 10am to 4pm and peak hours is 12c 7am to10am and 4pm to 7pm. So I roll grain etc after 7pm. Switched to cfl bulbs and all appliances are he. So the actual usage only went up a bit because of the colder winter. Going to switch heat source to but thats a new thread lol.


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

Couple of additional thoughts - and I see you're already thinking this way. It's a lot less expensive to reduce your electric usage than it would be to produce your own power. So, if your electric load is mostly...

1) Lighting - switch to LEDs, you'll dramatically cut your usage.

2) Heating - switch to natural gas (if available), propane or fuel oil as electric heat is the least efficient.

3) Motors (blowers, pumps, conveyors, etc.) - this is tougher as there's no viable substitute but some options are worth a look. If you have 3-phase power at your farm, switch to 3-phase motors as they're a lot more efficient than single phase motors.

Also, can you adjust your operation so most of the electric load is during off-peak hours? Many large industries do this as it can save huge $$.

Gary


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

> Going to switch heat source to but thats a new thread lol.


what, you mean they didn't get ya hot enough under the collar to heat the house? 

(Sorry, I couldn't help it!!  )

I also believe the "smart meter" -along with most of the other 'improvements'- are meant to 'improve the companies----mainly the executives & politicians---- pocketbook.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ontario, I was paying roughly around $150 a month for my main farm in ND all last year during the winter. My other farm (with no outbuildings or bins would run around $75. They put in the new "smart meters" this summer, and my main farm jumped to $300 a month but my other farm stayed the same. I called them and asked what the reason was and they could not explain. I had them put on some kind of recorder and they said their meter was good. Yea, I guess it's Good for them!!!!


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Thats what im thinking. I do have 3 phase motors. I roll grain and weld and repair at night as much as possible. House is heated with oil. I have switched everything I could have and it just keeps rising. Its a PITA as it is doing things at night. I was looking into a pellet or corn stove or wood? I will post a link a bit later to the story in the news.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Silly boys.....someone's got to pay for the green revolution, who did you think was going to do it? Democrats?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

They should I emailed a place that does solar and wind power. I will fill you guys in with quotes.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

I guess it is possible that the old "mechanical" meter was out of calibration and reading low and the new "smart" meter is recording the actual KWH?

For the past 8-10 years, the environmentalists have been doing everything in their power to eliminate coal fired electric generation. We have a coal fired power plant near my hometown and seems like I read where Ga Power spent something like $1.5 BILLION to put additional pollution controls on it.

The trend in recent years has been for natural gas fired power plants. However, the recent polar vortex has the Northeast paying something like $135 / mmBTU while in the south, we are still paying about $4-5 per mmBTU.

Nonetheless, I dread seeing my utility bills after this recent cold snap.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

It only raised 50 for the actual power but rates went up a bit to. Its the huge delivery they came up with that kills it now.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

http://m.torontosun.com/2014/02/04/ombudsman-to-probe-hydro-one-billing-practices
Its says they know there is problems. Ya its called greedy pricks in suits lining their pockets.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Ontario,

New Berlin is all over it. I run temporary power weekly for a facet of my other business. There is no way to get ahead of the power company on this one. Cutting your usage is a great start. Insulating your water troughs will save a lot if you have them. 
As far as alternatives, I have a long history of working with them. For wind you really need the ideal location, typically it doesn't pay off, Solar PV has come down in price in recent years, again a lot of upfront costs. For PV to pay off quickly depends on your local incentives and local government laws. Here in Vermont we have what's called net metering, basically we can get a license and back feed the grid. I'd do so at my commercial location in town for the last 15 years. At this point the system is paid for and I basically run my lights and office off the sun.

As new Berlin stated, taking preventative measures will save you the most up front.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

We definitely got the right location for wind lol. Over 300 commercial windmills within 15 miles.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I just cant think of ways to get my usage any lower then it is now. There was a guy not far away that shut his power totally off for a full year he still got a total bill of $1200 for the year. How does that make sense at all?


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

ontario hay man said:


> I just cant think of ways to get my usage any lower then it is now. There was a guy not far away that shut his power totally off for a full year he still got a total bill of $1200 for the year. How does that make sense at all?


I thought you all had a better government then the US! That's just not right!

As far as the wind, you should be able to look up some wind maps for your area. If it does look favorable for you, one thing to consider is the residual noise.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Our government is liberal. Oh wait arent you one of them. Thats what jd told me anyway lmao jk.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

ontario hay man said:


> Our government is liberal. Oh wait arent you one of them. Thats what jd told me anyway lmao jk.


Alright Ontario.....momma used to tell me..."people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

ontario hay man said:


> I just cant think of ways to get my usage any lower then it is now. There was a guy not far away that shut his power totally off for a full year he still got a total bill of $1200 for the year. How does that make sense at all?


Wth? What's the bill for? Are y'all's utilities state owned?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I got a wood barn. Thats where I throw them from lol.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Wth? What's the bill for? Are y'all's utilities state owned?


No its went private a few years ago.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

ontario hay man said:


> I just cant think of ways to get my usage any lower then it is now. There was a guy not far away that shut his power totally off for a full year he still got a total bill of $1200 for the year. How does that make sense at all?


Several years ago I was going to be out of town for 3 weeks, so I shut every breaker off except the refrigerator. The bill for that month was a little higher than the last several. Florida Power's only answer: *"well, the weather is hot so the air conditioner has to work harder."*

They would not even try to explain how it went up.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Even if I got a system that took years to pay off im 25 I hope I got time lol. I would rather that then line those usless lazy sob's pockets


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

ontario hay man said:


> Our government is liberal. Oh wait arent you one of them. Thats what jd told me anyway lmao jk.


Wow! just because I live in Vermont? Vermont has a long history of being very conservative, not however in the last 20 years or so. Not that I care, but I am very far from being liberal and don't belong to any party. 

So about your electrical issues.....


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

http://www.bostech.ca/index.html
This is the company I emailed today for quotes. I got the new hydro bill today... $603. It just about blew the hat off my head. Geothermal looks good to. I have a friend with it and he loves it.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I have a friend here who is in the business of digging wells. He has been doing a lot of geothermal over in NY for the Gov.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Is some of this related to equalized billing or something? Our power company will guess the years costs and bill evenly but adjusts if the use is trending to be way off.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

We have equal billing of $360 they will send us a top up bill of over $1000 at some point.


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