# Allis Chalmers D17 Series 4



## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

My Dad has a Allis Chalmers D17 Series 4

It needs a hydraulic hose and some hydraulic fluid. I'd need to trailer it over to my house from his. Any opinions on using this with my setup?


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Excellent tractor for a small haying operation. Pseudo Live PTO via the power director lever. Partial shift on the fly capability also via the power director lever. Series IV though are somewhat valuable and bring a premium with the collectors and users alike. Not exactly thrifty on fuel but quite decently efficient for the impressive power they put out.

Still a borrowed item though...trading one set of borrowing to another set of borrowing....and if anything happens to it that is a $5k or $6K tractor.

Plus, you would need to rig a mount of some type to convert a mount for your sickle mower as the allis will either have a 3 pt hitch on it or might have Allis's proprietary snap coupler hitch on it. Would be easy for most people to rig something up to adapt to that to your mower.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Yes but it is my Dad's not my father in law... My Dad puts up with me because I'm his son lol. My Dad was given the tractor... It's physically in semi rough shape but runs well. He has no use for it because he doesn't farm... He's practically GIVING it to me.


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Well that is an even better tractor for haying than the Farmall 300 or 350 I mentioned before. Will burn more fuel fuel than a farmall 300 though but literally tons of power in a small package.

Valuable tractor and worth owning for use or collector either one. If he gives you that or sells to you at a reasonable price you will not regret it. Series IV is what adds the value, Seires I, II, and III are just as useful but not near as valuable. Series Iv has hydraulics more similar to all other tractors where the earlier ones have a hi pressure/low volume system that can wreak havoc on an atypical farm supply cylinder. An AC 170 is basically the same tractor as a series IV other than sheet metal.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Sounds like a no brainier to me. Need to get it over to my house and get it ready for 2nd cutting. I'm sure I'll have questions as I learn to use it. Sounds like it would power a moco and pto baler if I upgrade down the road.


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

easily


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Only weakness are allis tarnny's of that era were not the best. if they have been quick shifted a lot then they will tend to jump out of gear and it is very expensive to fix...If it was treated right then less worries... but still less than a perfect design.

Do not let me scare yah though awesome tractor


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Haha I'm not scared. I just don't exactly know how to use it. I'll have a lot of questions I'm sure. Does it have independent pto where it'll still power while it's not moving? And does it have low gears?


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Push the foot clutch in and the PTO stops. Have to use the power director lever to stop the tractor to keep the PTO spinning. The power director lever runs in oil and has a hi side and low side and you have 4 gears in the tranny and the power director runs in oil so you can slip it like crazy without harm to go slower than even first gear in tranny and low side of power director will go which is great for balng.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Huge step up over what you have access to now. Lowest speed looks to be 1.8 mph.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I hate to say it but rankrank is wrong. A series IV D17 does have true
live power. Only 17 to have it. Series IV will also most likely have 3 point versus Snap-Coupler on earlier models. If he had been given a series IV, that is a wonderful gift!


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

My dad got it for free from a guy who didn't want it anymore. The guy was going to junk it... My dad said he'd take it. He's put a little work into it nothing serious. When it runs it sounds good. The tires are in decent shape. Need to get the hydraulic situation figured out and probably check the oil lol. I hope we can figure out a way to mount the sickle.

My dad sees no reason to keep it... He has no use for a tractor that size. He has small utility tractors for his work. With my small fields the extra gas won't be as big of a factor...at least I hope not.


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

stack em up said:


> I hate to say it but rankrank is wrong. A series IV D17 does have true
> live power. Only 17 to have it. Series IV will also most likely have 3 point versus Snap-Coupler on earlier models. If he had been given a series IV, that is a wonderful gift!


No I am not wrong. A series 4 does have true live hydraulics and the only D17 to have that totally independent of the power director but the PTO is only live via the power director. Push that foot clutch in and the PTO will stop just as it will on the later 170 and 175 models. Allis was way late to the game with a real independent or live PTO system on their tractors which did not come to the 4 digit models surfaced. That said the power director system was ahaead of the game when it was first introduced as it gave pseudo live PTO and even more importantly the ability to partially shift on the fly and it was more durable than other company's shift on the fly systems of that era. Allis simply stuck with the power director too long as other companys passed em by.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

rankrank1 said:


> No I am not wrong. A series 4 does have true live hydraulics and the only D17 to have that totally independent of the power director but the PTO is only live via the power director. Push that foot clutch in and the PTO will stop just as it will on the later 170 and 175 models. Allis was way late to the game with a real independent or live PTO system on their tractors which did not come to the 4 digit models surfaced. That said the power director system was ahaead of the game when it was first introduced as it gave pseudo live PTO and even more importantly the ability to partially shift on the fly and it was more durable than other company's shift on the fly systems of that era. Allis simply stuck with the power director too long as other companys passed em by.


I must be getting senile, you are right! I remember replacing the splined shaft for the hydraulics and for whatever reason, had it in my head it was for the PtO as well. Sorry for the tongue lashing. I'll go sit in the corner now...
Y


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

stack em up said:


> I hate to say it but rankrank is wrong. A series IV D17 does have true
> live power. Only 17 to have it. Series IV will also most likely have 3 point versus Snap-Coupler on earlier models. If he had been given a series IV, that is a wonderful gift!


Define " true live power" I am confused


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

stack em up said:


> I must be getting senile, you are right! I remember replacing the splined shaft for the hydraulics and for whatever reason, had it in my head it was for the PtO as well. Sorry for the tongue lashing. I'll go sit in the corner now...
> Y


Ok I got it now ,,,I always thought you had to use the hand for pto on all AC's clean up to the 7000 series ??


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

endrow said:


> Ok I got it now ,,,I always thought you had to use the hand for pto on all AC's clean up to the 7000 series ??


Yes you have to use that hand lever for live PTO clear up to the 4 digit models for live PTO. The 6000 and 7000 were the first to have real live PTO from Allis where you could push the foot clutch and not have the PTO stop. The 5000 series had it too but I think most of those were not really made by Allis. Most of the 5000 series were simply overseas tractors from Hinomoto, Fiat, etc. painted orange and an AC sticker put on em.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Hopefully by the time I upgrade equipment in 3-5 years I'll have learned how to fully operate this tractor haha. It is in rough physical​ condition but runs strong according to my dad. Might need some paint and new fenders eventually.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

rankrank1 said:


> Only weakness are allis tarnny's of that era were not the best. if they have been quick shifted a lot then they will tend to jump out of gear and it is very expensive to fix...If it was treated right then less worries... but still less than a perfect design.
> 
> Do not let me scare yah though awesome tractor


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

endrow said:


> rankrank1 said:
> 
> 
> > Only weakness are allis tarnny's of that era were not the best. if they have been quick shifted a lot then they will tend to jump out of gear and it is very expensive to fix...If it was treated right then less worries... but still less than a perfect design.
> > Do not let me scare yah though awesome tractor


 mechanic back the road used to say if you grind the gears on a power director tractor put a dollar in a shoe box each time you grind the gears, that way you'll have some money set aside for the transmission rebuild


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Would it power a round baler?


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

There are a few smaller round balers that it would run, but just barely and with not much of a margin hp wise or weight wise on the tractor (unless you get to talking those little mini round balers which are very pricey). I would want a size bigger tractor at a minimum before I even considered a common run of the mill round baler that can be purchased affordably.

On the peasly few acres you are messing with your only hope of making any money at all is pretty much sticking with square bales and even then it is going to be hard to make money once you actually start buying your own stuff.

With round bales you will need a big tractor and loader to move em. Hard to compete with the big outfits that sell those round bales cheap and they already have that equipment for their other uses. Plus most of your market to buy them will need that equipment to handle em and if they already have that equipment then they are making the hay already themselves not buying hay.

Much easier to compete with square bales as long as you willing to put in the labor intensive work.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

So it's not heavy enough to move them with a 3 point spear?


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Also we want to round the bales we keep and sell squares. Just thinking about the future and possibilities with the D17


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Yes it will move em with a spear on the 3 point as long as it weighs say in the 1K lb weight range (likely would struggle with a 2K lb on).

Tractor is marginal though at best to actually make rounds with a common run of the mill round baler in a common size. Pushing 50 and 60 year old equipment to its absolute max was never a good idea when it was brand new let alone after 50 or 60 years of wear and tear like that d17 is.

But you are not going to be able to load them on a trailer to sell with a 3 point spear...but if its for your own use then yeah in a field on your property...but sure is aweful exspensive piece of equipment for just a few acres.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm thinking about having the neighbor round bale for us... But using a spear to move them... We have rounds in the field and no way to move them right now. Sounds more logical to have neighbor round bale and us move.


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Yes that makes some sense especially since your square baler is undergoing repair....but that was not your question in post #21


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm am working through this as I go... Just asking questions as they enter my brain. I highly doubt I'll ever buy a round baler for just 7 acres. I'll stick to squares and hire out rounds if we want them. Eventually I'd like to upgrade my square baler and now with the D17 I can power one.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

If you ever run across a well kept JD24T they are great balers and will do you right. They make a real pretty bale for a older baler and I never once ever made a banana bale in the many years that I owned one. You can even use plastic twine in them and not have to touch a thing as far as switching from sisal to plastic twine. And you probably can find a good one for less than $2000.....and they have low horse power requirements.

Regards, Mike


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rankrank1 said:


> Well that is an even better tractor for haying than the Farmall 300 or 350 I mentioned before. Will burn more fuel fuel than a farmall 300 though but literally tons of power in a small package.
> 
> Valuable tractor and worth owning for use or collector either one. If he gives you that or sells to you at a reasonable price you will not regret it. Series IV is what adds the value, Seires I, II, and III are just as useful but not near as valuable. Series Iv has hydraulics more similar to all other tractors where the earlier ones have a hi pressure/low volume system that can wreak havoc on an atypical farm supply cylinder. An AC 170 is basically the same tractor as a series IV other than sheet metal.


And it'd be worth it for the semi-live PTO (If I'm thinking about the right tractor-- lever to one side that lets the differential freewheel so you can use it like a hand clutch and leave the foot clutch engaged, keeping the PTO running...) FAR superior to a non-live PTO...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> Also we want to round the bales we keep and sell squares. Just thinking about the future and possibilities with the D17


Two balers to own and keep up instead of one? Sounds expensive...

Good you've got ambition though... 

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rankrank1 said:


> Yes it will move em with a spear on the 3 point as long as it weighs say in the 1K lb weight range (likely would struggle with a 2K lb on).
> 
> Tractor is marginal though at best to actually make rounds with a common run of the mill round baler in a common size. Pushing 50 and 60 year old equipment to its absolute max was never a good idea when it was brand new let alone after 50 or 60 years of wear and tear like that d17 is.
> 
> But you are not going to be able to load them on a trailer to sell with a 3 point spear...but if its for your own use then yeah in a field on your property...but sure is aweful exspensive piece of equipment for just a few acres.


Unless it's a 16 foot lowboy pipe rail... lots of smaller guys use those and so long as it lifts high enough, it'll work... we load ours with a Ford 2310, which is about like a diesel Golden Jubilee...

Won't load any goosenecks though... 

Course we use forks instead of spears... (but I'd like to convert).

Later! OL J R


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Some pictures. My dad had a new clutch put in and the tires are in really good condition.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Hate to tell you, but that's not a series IV. Series IV would have Hydraulic pump in belt pulley hole and heavy front axle. It's at best a series III, but I think even those had heavy front axles. And those aren't factory rear rims and tires, as well as aftermarket 3 point. The seat makes me think it's a series I, but who knows if that's been switched too. Can you take a picture of the emblem on the front hood? If it's the diamond, it's a I or II, if it's triangle, it's III, but definitely not a IV

Any of the early 3 used a low volume, high pressure Hydraulic system like the WD and WD45. Has a tendency of blowing seals out of cylinders not meant for HPLV. 
But still a far cry from the 200 Farmall!


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

On a worn decal it says series 3 but here are more pictures. My bubble is not burst lol. This is the first I've worked on it. Just now getting first hand information.

My dad was saying my grandpa had a new engine put in he's saying a larger engine... He's also saying it's a mutt with mixed parts.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Sorry for the previous sideways pictures. That was the oil that came out the ass end.

Btw nothing you say can disappoint me. I just looking for information.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Decals are very misleading and can be stuck on pretty easily, the emblems are expensive and usually left alone.

The engine you have in there isn't a bigger engine as AC only used a 226 cid 4 cylinder, unless you have a diesel. Then it was a 6 cylinder Buda. He engine you have is a Gleaner EIII combine engine, same size, just runs a little faster and has a more sensitive governor. The original engines had a bad habit of the governors letting loose as the weights flew apart. You'd get a helluva road gear until the engine decided to ventilate itself.

Upon further inspection, I'm fairly certain it's a series I, which makes it about 1957 or 58. I can tell by the Power Director lever on the right hand side, series II and later had a little casting above the button for your thumb to "go into"


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Damnit pictures are sideways again... Could that lever hole thing be missing? I see holes on it where it could have been mounted. Personally I don't care 1-4 I'm just trying to learn about it.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

It's part of the lever, all one casting. I'm just trying to help you out bud!


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I know thanks I appreciate it big time.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Personally I find today's hp assumed requirements to be a hoot. I grew up (if it can be assumed that I ever did) catching bales behind WD45s, and JD 420s with JD 14T and super 77 balers pulling wagons. I worked for the local AC dealer and drooled at the thought of having a D-17. Now that was a Hugh tractor!

All of this reflection as I now rake and ted with a 60PTO HP tractor and cut and bale with a 105 PTO HP tractor with 4wd. And there are plenty of days that I certainly would not want anything less. WTH happened?


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

I'm still not exactly sure what series it is but I don't even know if it matters. It's an upgrade for me either way. Plus I'm learning a lot working on it with my dad.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

My dad talked to my uncle and he said it's a series 1 with a series 3 motor. Hence the series 3 decal.

I think maybe by dad was hoping it was series 4 or maybe was given bad info.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Good work! Make sure you flush radiator and block out. If it's sat for any length of time the coolant is probably half way to scum by now. Preventative maintenance goes a long way


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Definitely. Thanks again for your help and insight.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

MyDaughtersPony said:


> Definitely. Thanks again for your help and insight.


No problem. If I can't help someone out, what good am I?


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Series IV are the only ones of significant monetary value so I could see why your dad was hoping it was a series IV. No oval shaped muffler on it either and the sheet metal would have been shaped for an oval shaped hole and it lacks the live hydraulic pump on the Right side so it is definitely not a series IV and those are the 2 biggie items that are easy to spot.

Makes no difference for a hay user needs though. Any engine rebuild kit applied to a WD45 or any series D17 would have likely been the latest kit for any of these models if it was purchased from AGCO so from that perpective all the same. Only thing you will need to remember is if you ever put any implement behind the tractor that requires a hydraulic cylinder then you need a special cylinder that is compatible with Allis's funky high pressure/low volume hydraulics. (had it been a series 4 then any run of the mills TSC cylinder would have worked as they went to a more modern hydraulic system like most other competitors used).

Easy to hook your existing sickle bare to this tractor. Goto to TSC or other farm store and get a a 3 pt drawbar with all the holes it that fits the size 3 point hitch balls on the tractor (will be either category 1 or cat 2). You may need to rig side sway chains for the 3 point arms but those are needed for about any 3 point attachment anyway so good to have those. If the drawbar wants to spin you may need to rig a dog ear with a couple bolts and scrap steel to overlap one of the 3 point arms to keep it from spinning). Easy to do with crude tools and all low cost.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I went back to look at the picture of the 3 pt. arms. Does it have a sway bar on one side?

Chains are an easy fix if it does not. I remember on our old 2 cylinder Deeres there were chains that attached to the drawbar.


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## MyDaughtersPony (Jun 12, 2016)

Yeah I remember seeing what I thoufht was a sway bar... I think both sides had them.


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