# Horse Customer Story



## MIHay (Jun 4, 2018)

Hello all, got a bit of a story that i think you guys will get a kick out of, from what i read its something most of you have dealt with quite often over the years. A few weeks ago I got a text from some horse customers wanting to come look at timothy squares. She mentions that she wants absolutely no bottom bales no matter what. I explain that im almost sold out and many of the bales I have left were on the bottom, but were on pallets on a straw covered dirt floor so they will most likely be fine. She says ok and we set up a meeting time at the neighbors barn where it is stored. The couple shows up and seem like nice people, i take them in and show them the hay. She loves the hay, I give them the speech about how I use old equipment and so every now and then ill get a spot in the field that doesnt get tedded well, which may lead to a small dusty spot in the bale. I tell all my customers if the get a bad bale ill buy it back. Everything checks out for them but they didnt bring their trailer so they have to go home and get it, no big deal. We had just got two inches of rain a few days before and so my neighbors yard was soft, I made it very clear that i wanted him to take it slow and easy to avoid ruts. Hes backing it up and starts to sink in, then proceeds to floor it to make it through which obviously digs him im deeper. He thought he was in four wheel drive but didnt fully engage it, puts it in 4WD and proceeds to walk right through the now huge rut he made. We get it to the barn and start loading. The wife is incredibly picky about which bales she takes and is incredibly wishy washy about each bale. Every bale that feels heavy she panicks that it may be moldy. I take a bale she thought was heavy and break it open, we all inspect it and I personally thought it was some of the best hay ive ever made. They pay for the opened bale as well and throw it in the pickup bed. Theyre satisfied and i tell them to call if theres any problem. Very next day i get a call, the husband tells me the ENTIRE bale we opened up at the barn is moldy and must have been baled wet. I was almost speechless as we had just inspected the bale with a fine tooth comb and it looked perfect. He starts rambling on the phone about how hes worried to open any more because he doesnt want to be stuck with moldy bales that he will have to burn. I have him open another and he insists it feels wet but isnt moldy. I head over to there place 10 min later with the one ton ready to haul it all home, wondering how the hell i coulve missed seeing any issues. I get there and look at the bale, there is one thick-stemmed weed where the higher moisture stem caused a handful to clump, didnt have even the slightest off smell or mold color to it. Inspect his “wet” bale, its bone dry, just cold. I actually found it too comical to even be irritated, I never thought I would experience the legendary antics of the horsy customer. I understand the worry about feeding a horse moldy hay, but this was overboard. Plus I had to spend an hour fixing ruts in his yard. The neighbor didnt want any cash rent to use his barn, but after that fiasco I gave him 100 bucks, figuring it was probably still nowhere near what I should really give him but better than nothing. Debating saving their phone numbers under “do not sell too”. Sorry for such a long story, I still didnt cover some pf the funny details. Some people man...


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah, Haytalk has a "Horsey People" thread that has been ongoing for nine years now..... and the stories just keep coming. Probably need to move this story over there.

https://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/12303-horsey-people/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Purty sure I've sold to that lady years ago......."No More Hay For YOU!"


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I understand the horse hay business I know it can be difficult, but I know if the hay prices were based solely on what the cattle guys would be it'll be Mighty grim. Most times with the small bales I load the bails on one of my Bale wagons about a hundred or so I sort out anything that I'm not sure of and then I park the wagon up along the road at the Implement shed I went horse guy gets there with his pickup truck I open the door they back in the Hays already graded I know it's good. I don't let the horse people near the hay mow and I don't let them have any input on which Bills should or shouldn't go on the truck... I learned years ago from some old timers if you want to make high-end dollars in Hay business you grade and sort before they get there. Otherwise you just take a lower price for field run


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It was your fault the yard got damaged not his.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Sometimes I wonder how some people ever find hay that is good enough.


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## MIHay (Jun 4, 2018)

endrow said:


> It was your fault the yard got damaged not his.


I dont really see how its my fault that he failed to actually engage his 4wd when I told him that he needed to. He wouldve walked right through the yard no problem if he had done so. Then he insisted he WAS in 4wd even though his front wheels clearly werent even spinning while he had his rear wheel buried and floored. I do think I shouldve just told him there was no way we would go back there until it dried out even further, so I could see your point on that. Whats tricky is that property is notorious for always being soft, its actually an old 100 year old farm that has slight swales and grades to try to redirect the water, so there are always high spots that are good to drive on, and I did point out to him where the best way to back in would be, he failed to follow that path because apparently he didnt believe me. I do like your idea for grading/sorting the hay before customer arrives though. I typically try to do that to an extent, but to be honest with you I saw absolutely no issues with some of the bales she wasnt happy about. Definitely like the way you handle it though, gonna try to do that myself. Thanks for the tip


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Those were IGNORANT horsey people! Unfortunately this type seems to be the one making the news, but there are also knowledgeable ones who'd never treat a farmer that way, they know the skill, effort and luck (one needs this too) that goes into making good hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

"She wants no bottom bales no matter what" and you say your bottom bales are nice. 
That statement alone would tell me 2 things
1: Customer is a selfish [email protected] that wants to stick all the other buyers of your bales with more bottom bales than they'd get if she took a typical number of bottom bales
And
2. Your price per bale should be raised an appropriate amount if she's going to take all your upper bales only. It devalues the remaining bales you have left since there's more bottom bales in your stack.

Now if your bottom bales are garbage, that's another story.

I'm delivering 2 round bales into 2 customers feeders for $100/each right in my neighborhood.
I'm really liking this method. Customer saves a ton on hay. I only get out of Tractor to remove net wrap and tip back a hay hut. Tractor is only way in/out of our swampy field conditions.


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## MIHay (Jun 4, 2018)

JD3430 said:


> "She wants no bottom bales no matter what" and you say your bottom bales are nice.
> That statement alone would tell me 2 things
> 1: Customer is a selfish [email protected] that wants to stick all the other buyers of your bales with more bottom bales than they'd get if she took a typical number of bottom bales
> And
> ...


Ill put it this way, if i had brought all the bales out of the barn on a wagon like endrow suggests, she never wouldve known the difference. I think this was honestly just a case of someone who is totally clueless on how the process works. Whats funny is the week before I had an older gentleman stop out for the same hay for his horses and sheep. The difference was that he grew up on a farm baling hay and straw and the works. He was about the most perfect customer a guy could ask for, wish I had 10 more just like him


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I use a moisture probe and bring it with me. If there's any question or doubt to the moisture content I can probe it to show them for themselves.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> I use a moisture probe and bring it with me. If there's any question or doubt to the moisture content I can probe it to show them for themselves.


 at the hay auctions a lot of guys walk around caring moisture testers. I would think that only is effective when you're close to New crop time . I think in this horse hay discussion that goes on from time to time I think we're talkin about hay it has been stored with moisture or in moisture and has become Dusty musty or moldy.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

endrow said:


> I think in this horse hay discussion that goes on from time to time I think we're talkin about hay it has been stored with moisture or in moisture and has become Dusty musty or moldy.


 If that's the case then it's even easier to pick up because you can either see it or smell it. Even when it's molded on the inside and might not be visible on the outside, they hay still smells off.

I had some third cutting hay I put up at 18-20% moisture (dew) this fall. It sat out there for about 5 days. I'd rake it and the stuff on bottom would get damp before I could even bale it. So I'd rake it again next day and same thing...I was just going in circles. A veteran hay farmer in my area looked at it and said he'd bale it all day long. The bales felt damp but I'll be damned if that hay hasn't formed one spore of mold in storage since September. I've been feeding it and it's probably some of the better hay I've made.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayjosh said:


> I had some third cutting hay I put up at 18-20% moisture (dew) this fall.


It does seem you can get away with a little higher moisture in fall hay......probably due to cooler temps(some less heating) and a bit lower humidities.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

18-20% dew moisture is my target for baling.I start in high 20% if stems are dry and it's just dew moisture.Key is the stems are cured and no stem moisture.

That's in rd bales stored outside so I can get away with a lot more then sqrs stored inside.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hayjosh said:


> The bales felt damp but I'll be damned if that hay hasn't formed one spore of mold in storage since September. I've been feeding it and it's probably some of the better hay I've made.


20% is my starting point for small square baling, goes to lower numbers fast it seems. A lot of books/material, speaks of SS bales being baled at 20% and lower moisture levels. RB and Large square bales, need even lower moisture levels than SS bales, in MY area.

I also stack all of my SS bales on edge (cut side up). See number 5 of attached piece.

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

When I use preservative and I am baling alfalfa or alfalfa/grass mix and the alfalfa stems are mostly dry, I begin baling at about 26% moisture. Usually within a hour it will be below 20% moisture and in a hour and a half it will be below 15% moisture....and that is when I turn off the preservative applicator. When the moisture drops below 12% on straight alfalfa, I quit baling very soon. On alfalfa/grass I keep on baling.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

r82230 said:


> 20% is my starting point for small square baling, goes to lower numbers fast it seems. A lot of books/material, speaks of SS bales being baled at 20% and lower moisture levels. RB and Large square bales, need even lower moisture levels than SS bales, in MY area.
> 
> I also stack all of my SS bales on edge (cut side up). See number 5 of attached piece.
> 
> Larry


Stacking on edge was dad's first and foremost hay rule. I never consider stacking on strings.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Vol said:


> When I use preservative and I am baling alfalfa or alfalfa/grass mix and the alfalfa stems are mostly dry, I begin baling at about 26% moisture. Usually within a hour it will be below 20% moisture and in a hour and a half it will be below 15% moisture....and that is when I turn off the preservative applicator. When the moisture drops below 12% on straight alfalfa, I quit baling very soon. On alfalfa/grass I keep on baling.
> 
> Regards, Mike


So how do you get to baling it that early? I wait to rake until dew is gone (because I've been told here to not rake in dew), but once that dew is gone the hay is already very dry. My biggest problem is my alfalfa hay is so dry I bring in hardly any leaves. When do you rake it?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Hayjosh said:


> So how do you get to baling it that early? I wait to rake until dew is gone (because I've been told here to not rake in dew), but once that dew is gone the hay is already very dry. My biggest problem is my alfalfa hay is so dry I bring in hardly any leaves. When do you rake it?


i always rake with some dew in alfalfa,just not sopping wet.If it's to wet it will be a tight windrow that won't dry.Wait to rake and you will have sticks beating all the leaves off.Nothing is wrote in stone,every day is different and you just have to do it at correct moisture and I might have to rake at 6 AM and other days it could be noon.i usually only have two hrs for prime time Rakeing between to wet and to dry.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Vol said:


> When I use preservative and I am baling alfalfa or alfalfa/grass mix and the alfalfa stems are mostly dry, I begin baling at about 26% moisture. Usually within a hour it will be below 20% moisture and in a hour and a half it will be below 15% moisture....and that is when I turn off the preservative applicator. When the moisture drops below 12% on straight alfalfa, I quit baling very soon. On alfalfa/grass I keep on baling.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 here in our climate I cannot bale hay at 26% moisture with the proper amount of preservative on and send it to a horse farm and guarantee that none of the Bales will have no dust in them because at 26% they'll show a little bit of dust even though it will be some of the best hay you ever bailed


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Cy is right.....things change as the hay season gets hotter and then cooler. I let the top dry off but the rest of the windrow will be limp......BUT, the stems will be dry or mostly dry. I do gently ted my alfalfa once....occasionally twice, but I do so early in the morning when I am much less likely to knock all the leaves off. I ted at a very low rpm.....more of a stirring than a actual tedding. This helps get the stems dry faster than just leaving in the windrow for 5 days.

I rake the windrows in the morning the day before i bale just after the dew is off....I use a wheel rake as it is faster(can get it raked before everything dries out). Sometimes if I have a heavy dew the next morning(baling day) as the top starts to dry off I will take the rotary rake at a low rpm/higher gear and gently move the windrow over....this helps to get it to dry some underneath.

Here in the East, alfalfa is a pain compared to straight grass. About the time you swear you are not going to fool with growing it anymore is when you will begin to get it figured out. Unlike grass, alfalfa takes a few years to really begin to figure out how to deal with varying conditions.

For me here, I no longer grow straight alfalfa. I now grow alfalfa and a grass mixed.....usually Orchard grass. It sells better, horse folks love it, it is much more forgiving about getting it baled as the grass will help with drying and also help with leaf shatter.

Back to your question about raking when dew is gone. Josh, it sounds like I would try to rake it a little earlier with some dampness from dew and see if that will help with your shatter problem. Remember, if your stems are dry, you can bale with a limp leaf as the stems will suck off the extra dampness from the leaves and just kinda balances everything out to a good moisture level.

Regards, Mike


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

swmnhay said:


> i always rake with some dew in alfalfa,just not sopping wet.If it's to wet it will be a tight windrow that won't dry.Wait to rake and you will have sticks beating all the leaves off.Nothing is wrote in stone,every day is different and you just have to do it at correct moisture and I might have to rake at 6 AM and other days it could be noon.i usually only have two hrs for prime time Rakeing between to wet and to dry.


Ditto, spot on, especially no two days being alike.

Larry


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

r82230 said:


> Ditto, spot on, especially no two days being alike.
> 
> Larry


 exactly proper raking is so important and there are no two days alike. Heck depending what the crop and weather is like sometime we raked the day before


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Vol said:


> Here in the East, alfalfa is a pain compared to straight grass. About the time you swear you are not going to fool with growing it anymore is when you will begin to get it figured out. Unlike grass, alfalfa takes a few years to really begin to figure out how to deal with varying conditions.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yep, I believe the learning curve is much steeper (and possibly higher), with regards to alfalfa. The grass mix is definitely easier than straight alfalfa in MY area. But at the current selling price of $7.50 a bale (looking at $8 next week), I will work with alfalfa's nuisances . 

Larry


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

r82230 said:


> Yep, I believe the learning curve is much steeper (and possibly higher), with regards to alfalfa. The grass mix is definitely easier than straight alfalfa in MY area. But at the current selling price of $7.50 a bale (looking at $8 next week), I will work with alfalfa's nuisances .
> 
> Larry


HERE a little grass is fine even for horses,sheep,goats and even dairy.It doesn't take alot to make it dry faster.Some just put in 1/2 lb of orchardgrass seed into the mix.

I used to raise mostly straight alf and switched myself and some customers by talking them into trying some mixed hay.It didn't happen overnight but I switched and so did they.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> For me here, I no longer grow straight alfalfa. I now grow alfalfa and a grass mixed.....usually Orchard grass. It sells better, horse folks love it, it is much more forgiving about getting it baled as the grass will help with drying and also help with leaf shatter.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Here not even the dairy guys really want straight alfalfa anymore.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I am absolutely dumbfounded when I see people who have no clue how to rake properly either. A side delivery bar rake is about the easiest thing in the world to set and make work.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

stack em up said:


> I am absolutely dumbfounded when I see people who have no clue how to rake properly either. A side delivery bar rake is about the easiest thing in the world to set and make work.


I have a cousin guilty of that, always ALWAYS rakes too soon and makes rope for rows. I thought it might end now that he has a wheel V rake, nope starts even sooner so he still has tight little ropes for rows.

Have a horsy gal that does the same, except its even worse as they drive on the field when its way too wet, so then its rough as a cob as well, won't bale for her anymore.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

stack em up said:


> I am absolutely dumbfounded when I see people who have no clue how to rake properly either. A side delivery bar rake is about the easiest thing in the world to set and make work.


HOW to rake or WHEN to rake? Driving the machine back and forth through the field is the easy part, learning the timing with regards to moisture is the difficult part. I've always done straight grass hay but last year was the first year I did an alfalfa mix field.

That being said, I really hate side delivery rakes and use a rotary rake myself. I think it's easier to use in that you can lift it at the end of a row and not rake over what you've already raked, or you can make a row stop without putting a little curl or turn at the end. Although I think the roped windrows bar rakes make feed into a square baler better. It seems like the baler pickup "pulls" it in instead of kicking extra out to the side if you have a big windrow.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Hayjosh said:


> HOW to rake or WHEN to rake? Driving the machine back and forth through the field is the easy part, learning the timing with regards to moisture is the difficult part. I've always done straight grass hay but last year was the first year I did an alfalfa mix field.
> That being said, I really hate side delivery rakes and use a rotary rake myself. I think it's easier to use in that you can lift it at the end of a row and not rake over what you've already raked, or you can make a row stop without putting a little curl or turn at the end. Although I think the roped windrows bar rakes make feed into a square baler better. It seems like the baler pickup "pulls" it in instead of kicking extra out to the side if you have a big windrow.


Knowing when to rake and how to rake go hand in hand. Not knowing when will make it rope worse if it's too wet. Surely a scientist can figure that out

It's more than driving back and forth across a field. Knowing how to lay the windrow takes practice. Tipping hay is different than raking hay. Speed, bar angle, bar pitch and where you drive all factor in. Think I was maybe 8 or 9 when I learned how much each affects windrow. "construction" for lack of a better term.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> HOW to rake or WHEN to rake? Driving the machine back and forth through the field is the easy part, learning the timing with regards to moisture is the difficult part. I've always done straight grass hay but last year was the first year I did an alfalfa mix field.
> That being said, I really hate side delivery rakes and use a rotary rake myself. I think it's easier to use in that you can lift it at the end of a row and not rake over what you've already raked, or you can make a row stop without putting a little curl or turn at the end. Although I think the roped windrows bar rakes make feed into a square baler better. It seems like the baler pickup "pulls" it in instead of kicking extra out to the side if you have a big windrow.


That's the disadvantage to any "roped" winrows.....interlocked architecture that pulls inconsistent gobs of hay into the pickup. When rolling it doesn't really matter, when square baling, inconsistent bale lengths are the result....


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

stack em up said:


> Knowing when to rake and how to rake go hand in hand. Not knowing when will make it rope worse if it's too wet. Surely a scientist can figure that out
> 
> It's more than driving back and forth across a field. Knowing how to lay the windrow takes practice. Tipping hay is different than raking hay. Speed, bar angle, bar pitch and where you drive all factor in. Think I was maybe 8 or 9 when I learned how much each affects windrow. "construction" for lack of a better term.


I don't see the need for patronizing snipes nor do I know what I did to piss in your punch bowl. Far as I know, the only thing I've done to you is try to help you get reconnected with a Latham rep.

Besides, the rotary rake is a completely different beast than the rollabar rake.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I wasn't patronizing anyone. Hard to write inflection into a sentence. I dont remember anything about you getting me in contact with anyone at Latham, but anymore, me not remembering things isn't all that surprising.

Never run a rotary rake so I can't say how to run one, set one, or fix one. As with anything, knowing how they work and how a setting is going to affect performance is vital to its operation. I can't tell you how many people can run a piece of machinery, yet have no clue how they machine actually works or how to set it. But they can hold the seat down quite proficiently!


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Hayjosh said:


> So how do you get to baling it that early? I wait to rake until dew is gone (because I've been told here to not rake in dew), but once that dew is gone the hay is already very dry. My biggest problem is my alfalfa hay is so dry I bring in hardly any leaves. When do you rake it?


It also depends on which rake you have, if a rotary you can rake with a bit more moisture as the windrow will allow the hay to dry a bit more without baking, but if your rake ropes the windrow then it's an altogether different story.


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## MIHay (Jun 4, 2018)

Hayjosh said:


> HOW to rake or WHEN to rake? Driving the machine back and forth through the field is the easy part, learning the timing with regards to moisture is the difficult part. I've always done straight grass hay but last year was the first year I did an alfalfa mix field.
> That being said, I really hate side delivery rakes and use a rotary rake myself. I think it's easier to use in that you can lift it at the end of a row and not rake over what you've already raked, or you can make a row stop without putting a little curl or turn at the end. Although I think the roped windrows bar rakes make feed into a square baler better. It seems like the baler pickup "pulls" it in instead of kicking extra out to the side if you have a big windrow.


I use an old side delivery, and those curls and turns at the end are the bane of my existence LOL. Especially considering each of my fields have odd shaped parts. A good rotary rake is definitely on the wishlist.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

MIHay said:


> I use an old side delivery, and those curls and turns at the end are the bane of my existence LOL. Especially considering each of my fields have odd shaped parts. A good rotary rake is definitely on the wishlist.


 when I was a kid and we were on the Family Farm I remember being taught find my grandfather how to rake a three Corner field with a roll a bar rake. He had more or less an incentive program both of the John Deere rakes had a 4 prong pitchfork with a 1 inch water pipe welded into them for the handle and there was a bracket on each rake to carry a fork. The rule was if you made a pile or a lump or the ends weren't right that the Baylor would get them when you were done raking you took the fork and you fixed it. And that's what you did he was a great guy a master farmer in his time and his word was always final


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

endrow said:


> when I was a kid and we were on the Family Farm I remember being taught find my grandfather how to rake a three Corner field with a roll a bar rake. He had more or less an incentive program both of the John Deere rakes had a 4 prong pitchfork with a 1 inch water pipe welded into them for the handle and there was a bracket on each rake to carry a fork. The rule was if you made a pile or a lump or the ends weren't right that the Baylor would get them when you were done raking you took the fork and you fixed it. And that's what you did he was a great guy a master farmer in his time and his word was always final


That pitch fork was on our baling tractor for cleaning up misses. Thank you for the memories. Also used a corn knife to clean all the corners in the corn field. Cut out the corners and feed by hand into the chopper. Nothing was left in the field.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I don't like rakes.

Allright......I SAID IT 

Rather bale windrows made with a swather (mower conditioner.....whatever it's called these days). Cleaner hay, tighter and denser bales.

But I do use a 2 wheel rake to flip windrows for drying down my Haygrazer. The Good Lord hasn't seen fit to beam down a windrow inverter yet, so I do the best I can do. It leaves the "ropy" windrows y'all are talking about I guess. And Thank God it does. Allows the air to circulate. Keeps the windrows narrow for easier baling too. I like to walk the baler from side to side in order to pack the ends of the bale as well as the middle. Makes for nice uniform bales with lots of grass in them. I hate wide windrows. Perhaps "hate" isn't the correct word...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..I *loathe* *wide windrows * 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming :lol: I 'll get back under my rock now


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

farmersamm said:


> I don't like rakes.
> 
> Allright......I SAID IT
> 
> ...


I love rakes.V rakes that is.
Raking it fluffs it up and aids in drying.
It greatly decreases baling time by merging two swaths together.I rake 30' of hay into a windrow.
If windrow is raked correctly the sides and centers are packed with perfect shape,no need to weave.
Raking correctly is as important as anything else in a haying operation.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I'll 2nd what swmnhay stated. A good,level,wide windrow is easy to bale making firm,level rd bales. Having a rd hay baler with an extra wide pickup really helps to fill the rd bales ends(sides).


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I surely don't like doing the weave with a baler.....although it is necessary sometimes in a light yield. I also would much prefer a nice wide windrow so that I don't have to worry with packing the sides of the baler.....just hammer down and roll.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> I love rakes.V rakes that is.
> Raking it fluffs it up and aids in drying.
> It greatly decreases baling time by merging two swaths together.I rake 30' of hay into a windrow.
> If windrow is raked correctly the sides and centers are packed with perfect shape,no need to weave.
> Raking correctly is as important as anything else in a haying operation.


I'm to the point unless I raked it, I ain't gonna bale it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> I surely don't like doing the weave with a baler.....although it is necessary sometimes in a light yield. I also would much prefer a nice wide windrow so that I don't have to worry with packing the sides of the baler.....just hammer down and roll.
> 
> Regards, Mike


AMEN Years back when I 1st started custom baling I started utilizing a V type wheel rake. A local custom hay baler that I had known for yrs told me I was "dumber than a box rocks" for raking hay. A yr or 2 later he started raking also. I'll bet 95+% of people rake hay where I live. i rake three 9' swathes & it cuts down on wear/tear on rd hay baler.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I know when I'm defeated (sigh)


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

The only way we could make hay without a rake is if we were going to wrap it.
Sometimes we take the outside rounds off before the inside rows are raked, now we don't have to worry about making a huge inside, outside row. Although in theory this is fine, we don't always have weather to wait that extra day or two either.


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