# "Other" Costs of hay farming



## kadiddle

I'm planning to get started next spring, I'll have about 35 acres irrigated growing grass hay with alfalfa mixed in some areas. I'm trying to come up with very approximate figures for miscellaneous costs involved. Suppose I buy used equipment in good shape (80 hp tractor, small square baler, rake, haybine or disc mower/conditioner, trailer) how much should I set aside for repairs and maintenance, on average? (yes, I know it will vary greatly, I just need a starting point) How much for diesel? Other supplies? Other costs? I don't know if I'll need fertilizer. I do plan to lease the place in the winter for cattle grazing, will that take care of some or all of the needed fertilizing? The farm is located in Crawford, CO.

thanks for your help


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## mlappin

Something you need to figure as well, the personal cost of haying.

So far this year since the windows fell at just the wrong time I've missed the Memorial day ceremonies at the Legion and VFW in town, also missed out on about all the Independence day festivities as well. Seems about every weekend one friend or another will have a cookout/pool party as well, have just about missed most of those as well.

Takes a very understanding spouse to put up with a farmer of any kind especially one that makes hay.


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## Tim/South

Budget more than you think for fuel. Minor costs will be rake teeth, mower blades, maybe a tire or two for some eguipment.

Cattle will help with fertilizer costs. You will still need to replace the nutrients removed from the hay harvested. The cattle will only recycle the forage they consume. Grazing is still a big plus in my book.

It may be a good idea to budget for someone to come out the first time you bale. Square balers take some getting a feel for. A knotter will make for a bad day if you do not know what to look for.

Make friends with anyone close who can help you out in a bind. Return the favor.

Nothing compares to getting a weather window and having a mower, rake or baler break down. A problem with any one of those has shut you down. You have to make hay when the weather allows.

Family functions and personal times take a back seat once we begin cutting a field for hay.

My wife knows I have tunnel vision once hay is on the ground.


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## Lostin55

I hope that you are doing this for a tax right off. I wouldn't discourage anyone from starting in a new endeavor but it is hard to see how it will pay off.

As to variable and maintenance costs, this is what I would plan for:

Maintenance 1st year $6000. Subsequent years $3000

Fertilizer roughly $1700/yr

Fuel $1000 to $2000 year depending on what you are going to do, ie plow under and start over etc...

Twine $500/year for small squares.

You have not mentioned any way to haul the bales and using your numbers, 210 ton/yr will get tiresome fast. You might think about getting a stacker, pull type, or an accumulator and grapple.

If you add these costs to initial investment in equipment, and the headache, you may very well be better off contracting the field to a neighbor, or simply paying someone to come in and put it up.

EDIT- a very wise farmer once told me that you need the same equipment to farm 500 acres as 50.


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## kadiddle

Thanks for the replies. At this time all options are on the table including share cropping. I was just looking at listings for some old pull behind NH Bale Wagons. This would certainly reduce the physical labor, but it seems like a complicated, and probably high maintenance machine. I agree with the wise old farmer, and if we go the route of buying our own equipment, I'll be looking for neighboring properties to sharecrop or maybe just harvest. No use letting the equipment sit still. If possible we'll buy more land to farm in the area when the price is right.

I was surprised hear that I'll spend $500 on twine. I was figuring about $1300 in diesel, assuming one cutting, but I should get two. The maintenance of $3000 per year sounds reasonable for used equipment of this type.

If anyone else would like to agree or disagree with these numbers I would like to hear it.

thanks


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## slowzuki

I'm not familiar with your area but it costs us about 25,000$ to put in around 10,000 small square bales into a barn and deliver them to customers over the winter. Thats holding some of our depreciation for the future too. I find the repairs the worst thing as far as predicting, its easy to rack up 3-5k in repairs even doing it yourself.


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## Lostin55

Regarding the bale wagons, you are correct. they are complicated machines as a whole. However, they are also pretty dependable and work very well once they are set up to your bale size and length. It does take some effort to get them right the first time but once it is right you can pretty much just service it and run it. I wouldn't pick up hay any other way. I have never run an accumulator either, so bear that in mind.


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## JD3430

I vastly underestimated expenses. 
I remember talking to a Vermeer dealer when I was thinking of trading in my malfunctioning, but mostly paid off used equipment for new equip (with payments), he told me he thought my plan wouldn't pencil out. 
Right now, I have to support my love of hay farming with another business. It could not make it alone because the costs are too high. I am turning a modest profit, but not enough to support a family. No way. 
When equipment is paid off, it will be much better. 2-3 years to go before that's gonna happen. So what you must do if you want to jump in is 1. Have enough money to fund all your equipment to get into the business and not be worried that you will need that money for other necessary expenses or 2. Make payments on equipment and plan on diminished gross profits due to expenses until equipment is paid off. 
some guys here come from family farms and what was just said above wouldn't apply since they have a different set of challenges.


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## mlappin

Yes and no, if you don't have equipment payments then your taxes will be higher as if your still making payments, you usually have depreciation left on that equipment. Personally I'd rather be making payments and have the depreciation and pay less in taxes. I usually trade up about time the depreciation is gone on a piece of equipment.

To each their own though, I won't argue that it isn't nice not to have payments to make. On the other hand get your stuff paid off and keep it too long and the trade in value starts to drop pretty fast.


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## slowzuki

There's a cost too to keep two of each piece of equipment that is junk. I know because my backup stuff is mostly junk except my baler.

If I started over I would recommend more money into good equipment and less dollars into tractor. It's a lot faster and easier to rent beg borrow or otherwise get a tractor if yours breaks. Very hard to get hay equipment in hay season if it breaks. Also a lot easier to trade up tractors in off season as they seem to sell all year. Don't buy new hay gear as a newbie though unless you are in it for a few years or you will eat the first chunk of depreciation when you decide you don't like haying.


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## kadiddle

Lot's of great advice. I'm in a situation where the hay farming will not be the primary income. As long as it's cash flow positive, even a little, I'll be happy. I don't plan to buy new gear, and I can see it will take a lot of thought about how to divvy up the available equipment funds.

slowzuki, this sounds like great advice. I was just sitting here thinking about whether or not it is better to get a newer model, (more expensive) tractor or two older cheaper tractors. If one breaks I would have a backup. Plus they could both be used at the same time, ie, one bailing, one loading. Getting the hay in the barn quicker is probably a good idea. My wife wants some involvement and will likely help at harvest time. I may have other helpers also who could drive a second tractor. Besides, just being a newer model doesn't mean it won't break at the worst possible time.

If you could only have one other backup piece of equipment, what would it be?


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## kadiddle

On another subject, what size hay barn will I need for 3000 small squares with room to stack and unstack with a grapple/grabber?


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## Lostin55

You are on the right track with the tractor idea, and you can pick up a decent one with a cab at auction for 10 to 20K.

If you are buying every piece of equipment and paying for operating costs out of pocket, it will not cash flow for quite a few years. If you can stand the losses it is however an excellent way to build net worth.

If I could have only one spare piece of equipment it would be a baler. Very hard to get one (borrow) during the season.

I don't know anything about the tax implications from starting on a family farm as I did not. I started from pulling on my boots and going to work. While my family is and always has been in agriculture, we are scattered out to far to help each other. If you have a family network that would help you are blessed in many ways.

My wife told me that she would help before we bought the place. She has stayed true to her word. She fixes meals and keeps the water-jug full and cold. Occasionally she will run for parts if I am insistent enough when I ask her to. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but run equipment she will not.

Free help has a habit of being worth what they are paid.

Figure out which size barn you would like, and double it. You will need a place out of the sunshine, weather, etc to work on and store equipment.

Having a working relationship with someone in close proximity to you that does the same thing has been priceless for me. We have both helped each other many times with breakdowns and in several other situations. As a matter of fact, this guy baled up my entire 1st cut this year as it rained for three weeks on it and I had to go out of state. It is hard to find a neighbor like that. Of course I haven't seen my big tractor in a month and a half, but he assures me it will be home by the time I need it again.


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## deadmoose

If your plan is squares I would think extra wagons and more storage space would be the next thing to have a backup of. Unless you buy junk. Then you need a backup for everything.


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## JD3430

Lostin55 said:


> You are on the right track with the tractor idea, and you can pick up a decent one with a cab at auction for 10 to 20K.
> If you are buying every piece of equipment and paying for operating costs out of pocket, it will not cash flow for quite a few years. If you can stand the losses it is however an excellent way to build net worth.
> If I could have only one spare piece of equipment it would be a baler. Very hard to get one (borrow) during the season.
> I don't know anything about the tax implications from starting on a family farm as I did not. I started from pulling on my boots and going to work. While my family is and always has been in agriculture, we are scattered out to far to help each other. If you have a family network that would help you are blessed in many ways.
> My wife told me that she would help before we bought the place. She has stayed true to her word. She fixes meals and keeps the water-jug full and cold. Occasionally she will run for parts if I am insistent enough when I ask her to. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but run equipment she will not.
> Free help has a habit of being worth what they are paid.
> Figure out which size barn you would like, and double it. You will need a place out of the sunshine, weather, etc to work on and store equipment.
> Having a working relationship with someone in close proximity to you that does the same thing has been priceless for me. We have both helped each other many times with breakdowns and in several other situations. As a matter of fact, this guy baled up my entire 1st cut this year as it rained for three weeks on it and I had to go out of state. It is hard to find a neighbor like that. Of course I haven't seen my big tractor in a month and a half, but he assures me it will be home by the time I need it again.


Yes, I would like to have another baler, too.


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## mlappin

Maybe on the second baler, but if your primary baler is starting to break down enough that a spare is warranted, maybe it's time to get a new baler.


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## siscofarms

This is an awful lotta brain power at work for 35 acres !!!! If you don't mind not being in a comfy cab get an older , I prefer red , tractor . A good sickle mower conditioner , slower but WAY less expensive to run . a decent rake , tedder if needed . My advise is a REALLY good , if not new baler . If you get it cut you have to bale it . if the mower breaks then you just got that much to bale . Depending on the baler you can get into business for $20 grand and that could include a balewagon too . Not telling you to buy from but you can shop everything on TRACTORHOUSE and get an idea .


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## kadiddle

Good advice, and I'll likely do something along those lines. However, I don't know how I can get all the equipment for $20k if I get a new or really good baler. Used NH575 balers range from $8500 for a 20+ yr old unit, to near $20k for a more recent vintage. Same for a JD 348. What others should I be looking at?

One thing that I have in the back of my head is the notion that once operating, if I can get anywhere near cashflow positive, I'll look to add more acreage on which to use the existing equipment. I can use the same hay barn, equipment shed, trailer, etc. The only added cost would be the debt service on the land plus consumables and maintenance. My current spreadsheet shows negative cash flow but not too bad, largely because I plan to pay cash for a lot of the equipment so not to have a note on it. I don't know of anyone that will finance old equipment anyway. But, I do indeed plan on buying an older tractor and anything else that makes sense.

Which flavor of red tractor do you like? A few model #'s would be helpful (I have started a long list of potential tractors)


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## slowzuki

I started with a 2300$ jd 336 and eventually found a ten year old 348 for 3000$. Not during hay season of course.


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## Hokelund Farm

This is just my opinion, but for someone just starting out a lot of the equipment suggestions seem like huge overkill.
This is 35 acres, not 135. Being young and starting out you WILL need to take advantage of your youth, strength, and energy. You have an asset that not many have in the hay business anymore.
I would suggest an older NH or JD baler. Absolutely it needs to be reliable, but reliable can certainly be older and less expensive.
They key to avoiding expensive when starting out is to inconvenience yourself - hand stacking, old uncomfortable tractor (but yes, reliable tractor). Load up heavy on the sunscreen because you can't afford a cab tractor starting out.
I don't see how you would last on 35 acres with buying a 20K tractor.
$10,000 for a used baler on 35 acres? That sounds insane to me.

A 560, 656, or 706, JD 3020 is plenty of tractor to run a 9'haybine, baler, and rake. Convenient? no way, but reliable and cheap? Absolutely.

Nice IH 706 - $7500
NH 273 - $1750
9' haybine in good shape - $2500
wheel or rollerbar rake - $1500-$3000
3 stack wagons - $750 each
Should be able to get all equipment to put up good hay for around $15,000

I'm not up to 35 acres yet, but that list of equipment is a lot better than what I use. I also don't have any payments on my equipment. Do I want to upgrade asap? absolutely, but not until my business can support and justify it.

I think a lot of us starting out see others in the business and want to start in the same place as others when its taken 15-20 years to get there. Farmers 15+ years in the business can afford to have convenience and more efficient equipment.
Old timers - can you think back and remember what you started out with and how you had to get by with less to get yourselves up on your feet?


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## Hayman1

Hoke-you are right on target. I started doing about 25 ac of mixed grass with a sickle bar (wouldn't wish that on anybody), a JD950 tractor horribly underpowered and way too light, a 50 year old rake, and a 273NH that had already been worn out by two prior owners. Picked up hay myself off the ground and loaded on a flat bed trailer with mobile home axles (not recommended) which allowed me to get it to the barn and also haul it to someone and a pickup truck which was my primary transportation to my paying job. think I also borrowed the spinner fertilizer spreader from my dad each spring. My first upgrade was to purchase a beat up Kuhn two star tedder. One thing about starting out with stuff that you don't have much $ invested in is that it teaches you what attributes in equipment items that you really want, those that you really don't want, etc. Makes for a much smarter purchase when upgrading to more expensive used equipment or new equipment.


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## slowzuki

All I'll say 35 acres of 3-4 ton per acre hay on worn out bare minimum junk is a good acid test of if you like it but other than getting lucky its a good way to find heartbreak and hate haying.

We did it, lots of welding, late nights, strained relationships with wife, inlaws and anyone else press ganged into helping.

I don't wish folks to go through that if they can get started in the right direction up front. Do somethings right from the start.


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## Hokelund Farm

slowzuki said:


> All I'll say 35 acres of 3-4 ton per acre hay on worn out bare minimum junk is a good acid test of if you like it but other than getting lucky its a good way to find heartbreak and hate haying.
> 
> We did it, lots of welding, late nights, strained relationships with wife, inlaws and anyone else press ganged into helping.
> 
> I don't wish folks to go through that if they can get started in the right direction up front. Do somethings right from the start.


I agree with doing things right from the start. But there is a difference between worn out junk and older, reliable, used equipment. I'm just saying "convenience" items like a $20K tractor with A/C might not be putting yourself in the right position financially.

I realize there are plenty of big-timer farmers who think a 20K tractor with A/C is worn out junk, but for us beginners, that is luxury for 35 acres.


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## Lostin55

The difference in perspective on tractors being nice or junk might rely on whether or not the farm is in the red or black. For some guys a 300K tractor is a write off, for others the payment for that 20K tractor comes out of their paycheck from the dayjob.


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## kadiddle

Thanks for all of your input. Let me give a little perspective; I'm 59 years old, and I'm doing this because I want the change of lifestyle and my roots are in the land. Land will be financed, I'll have some funds for equipment so I won't need to finance much of it. Barns may need to be financed. My priorities at this time are:

Irrigation (with help from NRCS)

Good quality Baler

Bale Handling equipment (I have no intention to handle bales by hand)

Reliable tractor (old is ok, cab is nice but not required) Will need loader for grapple attachment.

Hay Storage

Equipment Storage/workshop

Everything else

I plan to budget up to $12k for a baler (hopefully less)

around 15k for tractor (again, less if possible, but willing to go to 20k)

about 15k for bale handling (either used NH bale wagon or accumulator+grapple)

then some extra for rake, stack wagons or a goose neck trailer, mower and other miscellaneous items. I already have a diesel dually truck and an 18' trailer which could be used for hauling hay to the barn or to a local customer.

One thing I look at when doing the math on a project like this is Return On Capital. Even with negative cash flow in the early years, the tax savings from depreciation and interest plus appreciation in land value plus principal on land loan paid by farming income all contribute to ROC. By my figuring, it's a lot better than you can earn by most other means without taking massive market risks.

Remember this is a 40 acre plot but I only plan to farm about 35 acres. This gives me a free plot of land on which to build our retirement home. That alone buys a lot of equipment.

Am I figuring this stuff all wrong?


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## Lostin55

I think that you are on the right track. I think that you may be underestimating the costs of the operation a little bit, but not dramatically.

In your (our) area, bale wagons SP or PT are far more prevalent than accumulators and grapples. Parts are easily acquired, which is a plus.

You are correct, in my estimation, on the tax implications and ROI. I started out roughly where you are, but with a bit more land. We bought the place, built a house and rehabbed the farm. We have re-fenced most of the place, and made numerous improvements from corrals to outbuildings etc. I have yet to make a dime of profit from it. As a matter of fact, we started in 2006 and have "lost" money every year on the place. This is oversimplifying the scenario but we have at the same time bought equipment every year and upgraded a few times. The P&L sheet is horrible if taken at face value. The loss per year doesn't account for the 7 year depreciation schedule that my equipment is on.

This year "should" have turned a profit for the first time, and then the weather happened.

Edit. My portfolio far outperforms the farm. Comparing the two is difficult. One you can watch the misery on a computer screen and the other you have to work for the misery of losses.


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## kadiddle

Lostin,

Do you have good irrigation? What kind of yield are you getting? (tons/acre) How about $per bale or per ton when you sell it?

I'm trying to be conservative on these kinds of estimates. Fortunately, the property has a good fence with no need for repair right now.

The bale wagons are the more common method of bale handling in our area also. I might go that way, but would still need a grapple.

I found a bale wagon for about $11k, says it has rebuilt hydraulic cylinders. What kind of things should I look for when evaluation a bale wagon?


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## Lostin55

There is a really good thread that is "sticky'd" to the top of the machinery forum on Balewagons. 11K buys a nice 1037 Pt.

I have all irrigated ground, some via gated pipe and some via double bend siphon tubes on cement ditch. Most years I can comfortably expect 5 ton to the acre and sometimes up to 6. This year may be a bust with the weather though.

You can buy an 8 bale grapple that can be modified to a 10 bale grapple very easily for under 1500 dollars.

Per ton prices in the area are currently 150 to 165 / ton. Cow hay is 85 to 110 depending on quality. Depending on where you are in Western Colorado, and the elevation, your tonnage will vary from mine a bit. A good indication of hay prices in your immediate area can be found on C-list. I don't see how it would pay for you to try and truck it over the mountain to an auction.

The cylinders on a New Holland wagon are very simple to rebuild. One of the easiest repairs actually other than changing chains.


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## Vol

Lostin55 said:


> As a matter of fact, we started in 2006 and have "lost" money every year on the place. This is oversimplifying the scenario but we have at the same time bought equipment every year and upgraded a few times. The P&L sheet is horrible if taken at face value. The loss per year doesn't account for the 7 year depreciation schedule that my equipment is on.


That is similar to how I operate.....vast improvements in land, equipment, and buildings....I have to show a profit periodically which I do(last year)......so I bought a new conditioner this year  ....probably get a Bale Bandit(200) soon...I hope.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki

I don't quite follow, do you earn an income from farming or have other work?



Vol said:


> That is similar to how I operate.....vast improvements in land, equipment, and buildings....I have to show a profit periodically which I do(last year)......so I bought a new conditioner this year  ....probably get a Bale Bandit(200) soon...I hope.
> 
> Regards, Mike


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## Vol

slowzuki said:


> I don't quite follow, do you earn an income from farming or have other work?


Both.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55

I am eyeing a 6515 high lift with rotate hay head. A little overkill but what the heck. Have to spend money to make money.

The tax structure allows a person to lose money on an un-incorporated farm and deduct those losses from their earned income on the income tax return. This reduces the amount of taxes that are paid to the IRS from the day job, and allows for the growth of personal net worth. To oversimplify it, you can grow your business using 50 cent dollars.


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## Vol

Lostin55 said:


> I am eyeing a 6515 high lift with rotate hay head. A little overkill but what the heck. Have to spend money to make money.
> 
> The tax structure allows a person to lose money on an un-incorporated farm and deduct those losses from their earned income on the income tax return. This reduces the amount of taxes that are paid to the IRS from the day job, and allows for the growth of personal net worth. To oversimplify it, you can grow your business using 50 cent dollars.


Exactly.

Regards, Mike


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## shadyoakhay

I agree with these guys. ive got 40 ac of alfalfa. and around 300 grass ac. and I do about 300 ac of custom hay work. plus grain. my tractors are cheap but reliable. my equipment I purchased new with my father in law. and now I own it after several years. stay cheap, haybine. good rake, economical. stay cheap. I learned the hard way. purchase only what you have a use for.


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## Tx Jim

Lostin55 said:


> The tax structure allows a person to lose money on an un-incorporated farm and deduct those losses from their earned income on the income tax return. This reduces the amount of taxes that are paid to the IRS from the day job,


How many yrs can you declare a loss on your unincorporated farm to reduce income taxes on your day job? Don't you have to show a profit 2 out of 7 yrs or something similar? My income tax is determined by farming income only so my taxes are determined differently from what you're referring to..


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## Tx Jim

slowzuki said:


> I started with a 2300$ jd 336 and eventually found a ten year old 348 for 3000$. Not during hay season of course.


I wish I could find a JD 348 for $3,000 as 346's will be priced almost that high where I live


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## JD3430

Good to see the other costs being brought to light.
Don't forget one very important but sometimes overlooked intangible cost: 
Your personal time. You will not believe how much weekends and nights you will devote to farming. 
No big deal to a single guy or gal, but once you're married and have kids it's a night and day difference. 
Hay won't wait until Monday when its ready to bale Sunday. 
A customer who wants a tractor trailer load of hay, but can only take delivery during your daughters final lacrosse game of the season doesn't care. 
Make sure you're ready for those situations. They have a "cost" associated with them.


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## Lostin55

Tx Jim said:


> How many yrs can you declare a loss on your unincorporated farm to reduce income taxes on your day job? Don't you have to show a profit 2 out of 7 yrs or something similar? My income tax is determined by farming income only so my taxes are determined differently from what you're referring to..


To be honest, my taxes are pretty complicated and I let the accountant sort it all out. It all boils down to on farm expenses offsetting off farm income.

I do not know the answer to your question but I can ask when I see him next.


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## slowzuki

Passed over a nice inline for 1800$ before that. Lots of folks getting out of baling small squares locally ie within 2-4 hours drive.



Tx Jim said:


> I wish I could find a JD 348 for $3,000 as 346's will be priced almost that high where I live


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## Vol

Tx Jim said:


> How many yrs can you declare a loss on your unincorporated farm to reduce income taxes on your day job? Don't you have to show a profit 2 out of 7 yrs or something similar?


The way my accountant has me set up is I have to show a profit from my farming operation once every five years. There are different methods of accounting that can be used, but once you choose a method you have to stay with it or it can be extremely costly(tax liability) to change.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki

I'll caution that folks in Canada can't do this if you were thinking. As soon as farm income drops below other income you are restricted in applying farm losses against other income. You can carry them forward for a long time to use in the future against farm income.

They also use a reasonable expectation of profit rule, if you fail they throw you under the bus and undo all the farm losses they let you claim. Really screws over grain guys that work a 2nd job over the winter or have to work off farm a lot on a bad year.



Vol said:


> The way my accountant has me set up is I have to show a profit from my farming operation once every five years. There are different methods of accounting that can be used, but once you choose a method you have to stay with it or it can be extremely costly(tax liability) to change.
> 
> Regards, Mike


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## ARD Farm

Glad I don't live north of the border... You guys have some draconian gun laws too. At last your healthcare is good.


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## JD3430

ARD Farm said:


> Glad I don't live north of the border... You guys have some draconian gun laws too. At last your healthcare is good.


Just because its "free", doesnt meanits good.
BTW: I just heard that Canadiens have more long guns registered per capita than we do in the US.


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## slowzuki

Yes, well sort of but we don't register long guns anymore and lots of people never registered them during the period it was required. We're a rural country with a very high rate of gun ownership, just not handguns so much.

Re the tax laws, its because a problem of rich folks setting up money losing hobby farms to play farmer when they felt like it. Write off tractor and farm property taxes against their lawyer income etc so they could have a place for parties and atv riding on the weekend on the cheap.

The thing that triggered the laws was people setting up lots of small money loosing race horse farms, huge dollar losses buying race horses. I think it was the 70's when they determined owning 1 or 2 horses to race was a hobby more than a valid business.

It would be akin to having a old stock car you race on weekends at the local track for a 500$ pot of money and trying to claim the 15,000$ a year you sink into your hobby against your regular income.


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## deadmoose

Here (for real estate taxes) cattle are ag. Horses are not. You also need a min of 20 ac for homestead ag.


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## Bgriffin856

JD3430 said:


> Good to see the other costs being brought to light.
> Don't forget one very important but sometimes overlooked intangible cost:
> Your personal time. You will not believe how much weekends and nights you will devote to farming.
> No big deal to a single guy or gal, but once you're married and have kids it's a night and day difference.
> Hay won't wait until Monday when its ready to bale Sunday.
> A customer who wants a tractor trailer load of hay, but can only take delivery during your daughters final lacrosse game of the season doesn't care.
> Make sure you're ready for those situations. They have a "cost" associated with them.


Exactly why im single. I seriously don't know how some people do it. Im just as busy during the winter as I am in any other time of year too. I have given up alot to make it work too. Dairy farming is like working two full time jobs 365 days a year but it is much more rewarding. All with the hope it pays off someday


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## Bgriffin856

35 acres? Previous owners of our farm, farmed 100 something acres with a farmall M from the 50's to the 80's till they bought a brand new 686 IH. Never owned a hay wagon either during that time either. Dropped them on the ground and the old lady drove the truck and the old man picked them up and stacked them then hauled to the barn.

Things were much different then


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## Bgriffin856

Since I grew up helping dad fix junk when it broke. I have become very mechanically inclined. I also know how to respect and take care of stuff. I know what its like to farm without. You have to start at the bottom to know how respect and appreciate it when you make it to the top.

Another thing that amazes me everyday and it really helps me motivated to get out of bed somedays, is that even when your in the red or feel like your going backwards is that your still building and gaining and improving whether you realize it or not


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## JD3430

Bgriffin856 said:


> Since I grew up helping dad fix junk when it broke. I have become very mechanically inclined. I also know how to respect and take care of stuff. I know what its like to farm without. You have to start at the bottom to know how respect and appreciate it when you make it to the top.
> Another thing that amazes me everyday and it really helps me motivated to get out of bed somedays, is that even when your in the red or feel like your going backwards is that your still building and gaining and improving whether you realize it or not


I hear you there. I have days where everything seems to go wrong, the doubters tell me you cant do it, but I have this feeling inside that I love what I'm doing and I'm motivated to get bigger and better. 
Sometimes I can't believe what I've accomplished in 3 years with no property, no dad or elder to show me how to far, no barn, and no equipment.


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## Bgriffin856

That is very admiral JD. I couldn't imagine doing without a mentor. But you seem to be doing something right. 99% of it is common sense you just have to have the heart to do it and stick with it


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## JD3430

Bgriffin856 said:


> That is very admiral JD. I couldn't imagine doing without a mentor. But you seem to be doing something right. 99% of it is common sense you just have to have the heart to do it and stick with it


I learn (sometimes the hard way) more and more each year.
This year I learned to stop putting 1st cut in the barn with hopes of selling for good money. Next year I put 1st cut in fields edge and leave barn empty for 2nd cutting. 
Knowing my luck, next year 2nd cut will ruined by rain lol


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## Bgriffin856

Thought about hay tarps?


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## JD3430

Yes, but haven't had much luck with them. 
They work Ok for 10-20 bales, but I need storage for 100-300 bales.


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