# Thoughts about the last cutting and frost...



## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Figure it is a good time of year for a discussion on the frost danger and that last cutting. We can also talk about cutting after a frost...not all forages can do that.

My thoughts...at least 30 days between last cutting and a hard frost...to me that is 26 degree or less on alfalfa...probaly can push this with an extablished stand by a week, but with a new field, I would probably not take the chance.
During a recent disussion with an area forage specialist, he suggested the following...

- Well drained field
- High level of fertility...fall application of fertilizer, especially potassium, is very important. 
- Cut four inches high for this late cut to provide some insulation against the winter 
- If cutting a little late...only cut the well establish fields

Last cutting by the calendar...guidelines-(Indiana)...

Northern Indiana -September 1 to 7 
Central Indiana - September 3 -12 
Southern Indiana -September 5-15

Toxic forage--
If you need the forage, frost injured alfalfa and clovers do not have the potential to form hydrodynamic acid, are not considered toxic and can be safely grazed or harvested for hay or silage following a frost.

Sorghum sudangrass and sudangrass are another story...from what I have read...but I have no experience with these...who can help us out and comment on the potential for prussic acid poisoning and add some thoughts on their regions and forage grasses?


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## chetlenox (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm interested in people's thoughts on this topic as well, Downtown. I'll be listening in on this post for sure. I'm down south growing Coastal Bermuda, and I know that a lot of guys are getting their last cuttings in right now. Average date for the first freeze down here in North Texas is mid-November.

Chet.


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## Hedge tree (Jul 18, 2008)

I have been in the hay business here in central Ks for >30 years...still learn something every year. I have always followed the University boys' logic on letting alfalfa have AT LEAST 2-3 weeks regrowth from the last cutting to the first killing freeze....not frost as most alfalfa will tolerate frost without slowing down a lot. However, with warmer springs and falls here in this part of the world in the past 5 years...we are seeing more striped blister beetles than ever before, armadillos have moved in, and alfalfa varities with a decreased winter hardiness and increased fall dormancy (>4) do much better than in our former years. I have learned this: If 1 or 2 cuttings of alfalfa during the year reached 50% or + bloom (especially the next to last cutting), there seems to be ample carbohydrate stored to compensate for a decreased period of time between the last cut and a killing freeze (like 10 days to 2 weeks) without stand damage. Other factors such as regrowth potential in cooler weather (fall dormancy) and a younger stand...all seem to provide good protection for pushing the last cutting date.

So...fall dormancy ratings, winter hardiness and age of stand are all factors....plus if you had bloom and carbohydrate conversion in previous cuttings.....allows one to make a final cutting closer to a killing freeze. It has worked for me HERE, but that isn't necessarily THERE, so do not extrapolate my experience directly to your part of the world.

Fall alfalfa production can be tricky if the sun does not blaze away and the humidity is high much longer during the day. Sun does about 75% of the hay curing...it heats the moisture in the stems which is released as a steam vapor with stem breaks providing more escape routes (conditioning). Low humidity, dry ground, wind, etc. provide the other approximately 25% curing help. If cloudy or hay cut close to dark, the stoma or holes in the leaves close up and water loss stops, respiration starts and food value can be lowered In sunlight, these stoma stay open and dry down with RFV retention is the benefit. Lots and lots of factors that our forefathers never knew nor could benefit from....yet they made some nice hay as well.


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## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

What about for Orchardgrass? I have a one year old stand of mostly orchard that has about 12-14 inches of height, first frost usually occurs mid to late October here in the Mid-Atlantic region. Should I cut it or just leave it over winter? Is there such a thing as "too much" cover for the winter, as far as regrowth for the spring? Any help would be appreciated, THANKS!

Ben


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## Itsalwayssomething (Aug 19, 2008)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> What about for Orchardgrass? I have a one year old stand of mostly orchard that has about 12-14 inches of height, first frost usually occurs mid to late October here in the Mid-Atlantic region. Should I cut it or just leave it over winter? Is there such a thing as "too much" cover for the winter, as far as regrowth for the spring? Any help would be appreciated, THANKS!
> 
> Ben


Ben, my experience with grass hay is that some cover can actually help with broadleaf weeds. They have trouble getting sun through the "cover" in the Spring and, thus, don't get a good start. Grasses do well coming up through cover, if it's not so thick as to smother.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

We made some round bales of alfalfa-orchard grass hay the first week of Nov. which is really late for our area (SC Wis). The hay was up to my knees and looked like way too much to leave over winter. I think that grass would still be there when it comes time to rake the 1st crop next year and that's gotta really affect the quality of the next crop. Guess we'll know at greenup next spring if it was worth the risk of winterkill.


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