# Orchard grass conditioning question



## Small acres (May 31, 2014)

I am new to haytalk I have read as much as I can Haytalk has been very helpful.

I live on the eastern shore of Maryland and may orchard grass hay. I have had a buddy do it for me the past couple of years.

This year I got a deal on some equipment so I am going to give it a try myself. I have a NH 310, 256 rake and 255 tedder/rake.

The only peace I have left to get is a mower. Having run my buddies haybine during the spring cutting I am not excited about a sickle bar mower. I am doing this part time and would like to cut the hay then go to work. I don't see that happening with a haybine because I would have to cut when the dew is still on the grass. Cutting before work is not mandatory just would be nice.

I did see a diskbine in action cut the whole place in an hour; it may have ruined me for a haybine.

So my question is; am I crazy for thinking I can get away with just a mower drum or disk no conditioner?

I would run the tedder after mowing which should break some stems not as much as rollers but some.

My best guess based on my limited experience is second and third cutting will be fine. For the spring cutting I would hire someone to cut and condition or buy an old crimper.

Thank You


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Cutting hay with dew with a sickle machine? When we ran a self propelled sickle machine cutting hay with dew was just asking for problems. Heck even when the sun would go behind the clouds in thick orchard/brome hay you could see and feel that it was having a hard time. But if you have the money buy a disc one. Then you can cut anytime.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Several thoughts:

First, I run a NH 7230 moco because I have both OG and alfalfa. My experience has been that the moco helps with drying grass hay because it crushes the lower part of the stem where the majority of the moisture is. For first cutting, it also crushes the seed stem, again allowing the moisture to escape faster.

Second, I start mowing about 10 AM when the dew is mostly burned off. This puts drier hay on the ground underneath. Mowing when there is dew puts that moisture down under the windrow and slows the drying process.

Third, again I like to mow later in the morning because of plant respiration. My understanding (and I might be wrong about this) from reading several articles, is that plants "breathe out", i.e., start expelling moisture, about mid-morning. By mowing when it is breathing out, the plant will continue to expel moisture, but will not be able to "breathe in", i.e., pick up moisture from the ground.

My understanding is that the plant breathing cycle is: in--sunrise to mid-morning, out---mid-morning til noonish, in--noonish to late afternoon, out--late afternoon to sunset.

Finally, since you are doing only limited grass hay, the cost of a moco wouldn't be worth it vs a disc mower. Disc or drum, but not sickle, would probably be better for you. The extra drying time on your spring cutting probably would not be that significant using a straight disc mower.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## Small acres (May 31, 2014)

Teslan - I am sorry I was not clear. I would not be able to use a sickle bar in the morning do to dew. I was thinking of running a disk mower or drum mower.

Thank you for your response

RJmoses- Thank you for you input, I have read the advantages or the system which you use as well and agree with them. The nutritional content pretty close to the highest and you get the more drying the first day due to the continued breathing.

It good to hear that I am not crazy for considering making hay without a mower conditioner.

Thanks for the input.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Small acres said:


> It good to hear that I am not crazy for considering making hay without a mower conditioner.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Here in PA, not that far from you, I'd call someone crazy for considering it 

I questioning your plan of hiring first cut and doing the others with an owned piece of equipment. How many acres will you be doing? How many years of paying someone for first cutting mowing will equate to the cost difference between a disc mower and disc moco? As annoying as sickle machines can be, I think I'd still rather have a sickle moco over the disc or drum mower. It's highly unlikely to give you trouble in later cuttings and if the conditions are right in the spring, you could actually use it on your first cutting now and then and save a few bucks on custom mowing.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

A drum mower would be an economical choice as they are much less expensive than disc or MOCO options. They also will let you cut as fast as the smoothness/roughness of the field allows. I run our MOCO on the mixed alfalfa/grass fields and the drum mower on the grass or grass/clover fields. Its fast but lays out a narrow windrow that must be tedded right after mowing. So even if mowing is done quickly you usually still need to run the tedder right after first cutting if the grass was thick. Second and third cut you may be able to wait until the evening or following morning to ted to save time. If you are on a tight budget the drum mower is a cheap way to go that still provides a dependable option. Six new blades each season is only around $20.


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## Small acres (May 31, 2014)

My experiences with a NewHolland haybine has been less then stellar. My tractor is too small for a diskbine. I can run a large Disk mower almost any size sickle with conditioner (50HP pto).

Here is my experience with a sickle bar mower.

This year my spring crop was great!! I soil tested and then fertilized which really worked will.

Well until we try and cut it, we started at 10:00 the dew was not really off it but it never really dried. Thick does not begin to describe it. It cut okay however 4 hour to cut three acres, I stopped after 4 hours because I wanted the hay to dry some the first day.

A week and a half latter the we went to cut the remaining hay which was taller and thicker. Started cutting at 3:00 (Hay guy cut his first) at 7:00 he was not even half done. We had to call in a haybine to finish the job.

The purchase cost is one aspect but, so is maintenance, and cut time.

His haybine may be out of adjustment, it did run better on my tractor 50HP vs. 37HP. I think it had new guards and blades some time the previous year. I don't remember the number its a 7 foot.

It is flat here no rocks in the soil you will not dull your blades on any dirt mounds.

I would consider a haybine or moco but it will not last long if it doesn't cut any faster. Its not clear that I won' have to call the big guy (DiskBine) in to cut my hay in the spring anyway. I would rather have a speed of disk mower for the second and third.

I guess it really come down to the speed of the sickle mower/conditioner.

How long should it take to cut a acre in the spring with a sickle mower/conditioner?


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## Small acres (May 31, 2014)

Fossil

I am considering a drum mower, they cost a little more new than a used sickle mower/conditioner.

The only dealer in my area is Kuhn which is a good brand but 2K more expensive then the mowers available on the internet. Kuhn has a great line of drum mowers that they only sell in Europe which is a little disappointing. They only sell their smallest model here in the states, that's what my sales guy told me anyway.

I would probably order one off the internet, with some reluctance due to lack of local parts support.

I don't see any drum mowers for sale over here its mostly disk mo/co or sickle mo/co.

Do you think I could re-sell it if I don't like it?

Thank you to all the posters for all the input, I appreciate the support.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

A disc mower(not to be confused with a discbine) will work fine for cutting Orchard grass....and it will dry in a very reasonable amount of time if tedded. Since you have a tedder you should be in good shape as far as drying. I think you are making a wise budgeted decision in considering a disc mower for the limited amount of haying you will be doing. Maybe sometime down the road you will find a discbine suits your needs better, but a discmower will work quite nicely until that time comes.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> ...... but a discmower will work quite nicely until that time comes.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Agree.

Ralph


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Vol said:


> A disc mower(not to be confused with a discbine) will work fine for cutting Orchard grass....and it will dry in a very reasonable amount of time if tedded. Since you have a tedder you should be in good shape as far as drying. I think you are making a wise budgeted decision in considering a disc mower for the limited amount of haying you will be doing. Maybe sometime down the road you will find a discbine suits your needs better, but a discmower will work quite nicely until that time comes.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I agree as well. Around my neck of the woods, the vast majority of hay is cut with a disc mower. Very rarely do I see a mower conditioner and I've only seen one drum mower in use.

I think a six disc mower would do well for you.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

The drum mowers are available from several suppliers besides Kuhn. I have Kuhn rotary rakes and tedders as they are quality implements. For a drum mower with very few moving parts I chose the CCM. I've had it for four years cutting 30 acres 2x/yr. It can cut mornings when there is still some dew or even the heaviest of stands. It is not the best for every situation however as it is only 6' wide and leaves the narrow windrow I mentioned earlier. But, it is affordable, dependable and economical to own. You may also need a larger tractor as the weight hanging back there can make a smaller tractor unstable.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

check out the NH used disc mowers at hartman equipment in Harrisonburg, va. totally accessable to you and they are good folks. bought numerous pieces from them.


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## Small acres (May 31, 2014)

Thank you for everyones input very helpful.

I think I will give a disk or drum mower a try.


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