# Baler Air Bag Project - Pictures



## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

Thought I would post a few pictures of the air bag project I just completed for my John Deere 338 baler. The air bag was purchased new through eBay for around $60 (Enidine brand, Y1-2B12-318). The air tank is from Harbor Freight for $20. The bracket and strap material I had laying around. My plan is to use a portable auxillary air tank for adjusting the pressure on the system. I have yet to try out so I don't know what pressure I will need to run. We have been pretty dry here in the Willamette valley so I anticipate our 1 cutting hay season to start early this year.

IFF


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Awesome looking, and well done project. Congrats.

I do have a question. The two threaded rods that hold it together seem kind of small, what amount of force will they hold?

Assuming that the airbag is 15 inches wide, and Pi r Squared as the formula, will it hold? My preliminary thought is that it will need a larger diameter piece of all-thread.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Nice and very neat work. I enjoy seeing and being around individuals that take pride in their work. Looks like it will do the trick. 

Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Looks really nice. With the paint you can pass it off as factory installed.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Great work!


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

Lostin55,

The all thread rods are 5/8" diameter, the same diameter as the factory spring material and as big as the factory cross piece would accept. They are good for 14,400 lbs. That particular air bag is good for 7200 lbs at 100 psi. If I run the air bag at a maximum of 50 psi, I will be exerting approximately 4000 psi. I am really curious how much force the factory springs exert when set to make a 57lb bale.

Doug


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I agree you did a nice conversion. What's the advantage of air bag tension over springs? I understand the ease of adding/removing the air vs turning the crank handles especially with hay in the chamber but is there any other advantage? Thanks,Jim


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

It does look pretty awesome. I don't think that the installation could be any cleaner.

I have never run an airbag and I don't know the force they exert. I know of a few guys that run them in Pickups but have never even been around them.

I don't have any clue on the springs and pressure exerted. I have seen threads on here about conversions to airbags so there has to be something to it. Maybe the factories will start adding them as an option. They could certainly look at yours for the proper way to put one in.

Nice work!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

With te extra air chamber airbags have a low spring rate, meaning they apply more constant pressure over a long travel. Its like having a much longer steel spring on there. The hydraulic systems do it with a pump and relief valve to keep constant pressure over the travel.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Looks nice, update with operation details.....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Air bags are supposed to maintain a constant bale poundage under changing conditions....they will fluctuate pressure to make a certain bale weight as the day goes on and the hay gets drier.

Regards, Mike


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> Air bags are supposed to maintain a constant bale poundage under changing conditions....they will fluctuate pressure to make a certain bale weight as the day goes on and the hay gets drier.
> 
> Regards, Mike


So are you implying that the weight of the bale will not vary as much with air as with springs when the windrow size or side of the field changes? If so I'd have to witness this to believe it.


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

In my second post I stated the air bag would put out 4000 psi at 50 psi. It should have read 4000 lbs at 50 psi. I believe the advantage of the air bag comes when windrows are lighter/dryer. A conventional spring only applies pressure when pushed against. If the window becomes lighter and can no longer push as hard against the spring, the bale weight suffers because the spring cannot push back. The air bag, however, can apply pressure in both directions so to speak. Heavy windrows through the baler push against the air bag, lighter windrows through the baler are pushed on by the air bag. This is my understanding, probably not communicated too effectively.

IFF


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

IFF said:


> Thought I would post a few pictures of the air bag project I just completed for my John Deere 338 baler. The air bag was purchased new through eBay for around $60 (Enidine brand, Y1-2B12-318). The air tank is from Harbor Freight for $20. The bracket and strap material I had laying around. My plan is to use a portable auxillary air tank for adjusting the pressure on the system. I have yet to try out so I don't know what pressure I will need to run. We have been pretty dry here in the Willamette valley so I anticipate our 1 cutting hay season to start early this year.
> 
> IFF


Great job! I've never used one, but I think that it would work better if hooked-up to a small compressor, otherwise you have to constantly monitor the pressure to obtain consistency. Or am I wrong?


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

IH 1586 said:


> Looks really nice. With the paint you can pass it off as factory installed.


Your right .. He better get a patent on the system... I know how Deere Mother John likes to operate..they steal the idea then sue him somehow...


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IFF said:


> In my second post I stated the air bag would put out 4000 psi at 50 psi. It should have read 4000 lbs at 50 psi. I believe the advantage of the air bag comes when windrows are lighter/dryer. A conventional spring only applies pressure when pushed against. If the window becomes lighter and can no longer push as hard against the spring, the bale weight suffers because the spring cannot push back. The air bag, however, can apply pressure in both directions so to speak. Heavy windrows through the baler push against the air bag, lighter windrows through the baler are pushed on by the air bag. This is my understanding, probably not communicated too effectively.
> 
> IFF


Compression springs on JD sq balers bale case "stretch not compress" and the springs apply pressure to the top & bottom of the bale similar to air bag.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

We run our air bag system at around right around 50-55 psi to get a 55lb-60lb bale. Usually have it set right at 52 psi. You will love the air bag system. It is nice not having to worry as much about the windrow size since it will compensate to a big wad that goes in the baler.

We feel an air bag can react faster than a hydraulic cylinder can to a large wad of hay going into the chamber. In the 3 years that we have ran the air bag for the tensioning system we have sheared 1 bolt. That was due to operator error and was trying to make extremely heavy bales.

The job looks grade A and I'm glad to see that you painted it to match. Looks clean, and enjoy the ease of this system!\


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

This may be a dumb question. But, does it work as well on bermuda as it does on alfalfa?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The only problem with springs is the force they apply is proportional to amount of stretch. AKA spring rate. So if you have a 1000 lb/in spring, and its stretched 1" longer than slack, it applies 1000 lbs. If you stretch it to 2" longer, its 2000 lbs, 3" is 3000 lbs etc etc.

Now with an air bag its more complicated but the spring rate is not simply proportional to stretch, and by adding a chamber for more volume it lowers the spring rate so say you have 1000 lbs at 1" compression, maybe 1050 lbs at 2" compression, 1075 lbs at 3" compression. Thats just an example, its actually non-linear through the travel and depends on the bag model but if you have a big air chamber the force stays pretty constant.

To do this with a spring, you'd have to have very long springs stretched way out to obtain their setting.



Tx Jim said:


> Compression springs on JD sq balers bale case "stretch not compress" and the springs apply pressure to the top & bottom of the bale similar to air bag.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks for the explanation.
Jim


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> So are you implying that the weight of the bale will not vary as much with air as with springs when the windrow size or side of the field changes? If so I'd have to witness this to believe it.


Not a new concept.....been around several years.

Regards, Mike

http://www.scottseaver.com/airbaler/landing.html


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I'll still state I'd have to weight some sq bales to believe the bale weights will be closer to same weight with air tension vs spring tension. If concept has been around for a while one would think if it's that "rocket scientist quality" that an equipment manufacturer would have adopted it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> I'll still state I'd have to weight some sq bales to believe the bale weights will be closer to same weight with air tension vs spring tension. If concept has been around for a while one would think if it's that "rocket scientist quality" that an equipment manufacturer would have adopted it.


The link in my last post states that the unit is "patent pending".....so if Seaver does get patent approval I would expect a manufacturer to purchase this from him.

Regards, Mike.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

The big 3 (JD, MF, and NH) all have their optional hydraulic tension kit as a replacement for springs, reason being is it has more of a range of forgiveness to maintain bale weight, regardless of changing conditions. Air bag down pressure is no different.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Yep stack em up you're correct as JD sq balers had hyd tension back in the days of the 346 balers which is in the 70's way back when I sold them when they brand new. But was hyd bale tension for uniform bale weight or ease of adjustment of tension?? My vote is for ease of adjustment of bale weight not bale weight uniformity.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

How much square baling do you do Jim?


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I run a JD 328 with factory hydraulic tension. After running both spring and hydraulic, I won't have another square baler without hydraulic tension. If I were baling for myself, I could care less about bale uniformity. But I sell all my hay and try to make as uniform a bale as possible. That can be tough here in the hot South Carolina summer time. It still amazes me how much hay changes in the windrow in a short period of time.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to stop and adjust bale weight at the baler regardless....be it springs or hydro


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to stop and adjust bale weight at the baler regardless....be it springs or hydro


Yes. But the hydraulic seems to make a more consistent bale through changing conditions. instead of cranking on springs. You just twist a knob.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Troy Farmer said:


> Yes. But the hydraulic seems to make a more consistent bale through changing conditions. instead of cranking on springs. You just twist a knob.


Understood, just trying to make a pt......


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

So, if I understand this correctly, the airbag stays at the same pressure and does not need adjustment once set? If that is the case it makes a pretty strong argument in favor of the airbag.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Lostin55 said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, the airbag stays at the same pressure and does not need adjustment once set? If that is the case it makes a pretty strong argument in favor of the air.


In 2 years we have set it on first cutting and never made another adjustment during the season.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> How much square baling do you do Jim?


Well not as much as some posters but does being employed by a dealer for over 21 yrs repairing sq balers and custom baling with a sq baler but mostly baling round bales since 1987 count?? Most fields I've baled have one side or the other that is either shaded by trees &/or the windrow varies in amount of hay. I would have to see a sq baler with airbag installed make more consistent weight bales than a spring adjusted baler to believe it. I guess I'm just hard-headed.

I'll add that I've never baled or been around Alfalfa or legume type hay being baled as it's not grown in my area.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IH 1586 said:


> In 2 years we have set it on first cutting and never made another adjustment during the season.


Your lucky because I can't seem to get the moisture content of the hay to be exactly the same every time I bale hay unless you're implying that the air bag will compensate for difference in moisture content of the hay which again I'd have to see to believe.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

IH 1586 said:


> In 2 years we have set it on first cutting and never made another adjustment during the season.


That is the most convincing argument yet in favor of the airbag. How much air pressure do you run, what size bale and what weight are you aiming for?


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

We have one on our Massey Ferguson inline and it is a lot more consistent than springs.; We do have to adjust the air pressure from time to time but only in the 18-24 psi range. It is a lot better than springs but at the same time it is not a magic bullet everything else has to fall in line to make real consistent bales.;


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Lostin55 said:


> That is the most convincing argument yet in favor of the airbag. How much air pressure do you run, what size bale and what weight are you aiming for?


We started at 15psi according to gauge on tank. With the accumulator we backed off to 5psi. Are bales are about 45 lbs. Size unsure but should be about 36 inches.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The psi numbers you guys are throwing around don't really mean much to compare unless you're all running the same size bags. Regardless, I'm as convinced as ever that I'd love to try an air system.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Here we are again the same but different.Never heard of a 3 string baler without the hydraulic tension. The control of how much pressure is how we adjust bale weight and how solid the bale will be for machine handling.The low humidity we always looking for dew to bale,generally at first light start with very little pressure as the day warms keep adding pressure.When the hay starts chaffing ,lose of leaves and such time to stop for the day.Different things means psi varies from baler to baler, but start with 100 psi and go as high as 700psi before stopping to keep the same bales from start to stop.

The first baler I ever used a IH 56 had a after market hydraulic tension control.All 3 strings have a gauge operator can easily see and adjust from tractor seat. Looks like the air bag would be about the same as hydraulic but would need to be adjusted as the hay dried ,and backed off at the end of baling for the day and start over the next day.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

IFF said:


> Thought I would post a few pictures of the air bag project I just completed for my John Deere 338 baler. The air bag was purchased new through eBay for around $60 (Enidine brand, Y1-2B12-318). The air tank is from Harbor Freight for $20. The bracket and strap material I had laying around. My plan is to use a portable auxillary air tank for adjusting the pressure on the system. I have yet to try out so I don't know what pressure I will need to run. We have been pretty dry here in the Willamette valley so I anticipate our 1 cutting hay season to start early this year.
> 
> IFF


Read this as the thread was fresh, and was intrigued. Just finished the first 400 smalls of the season. As the day went on the hay continued to dry and by the time I was done baling the last wagon's bales were lite and falling apart. Immediately was thinking of this and a few older postings on this subject. 
So... If I'm reading this right I would end up with consistent bale weights as the day goes on?
If this is the case as I'm assuming will be the answer, what factors did you use in determining the particular air bag? I did a search on eBay and found quite a few different sizes. Was thinking to follow your model as it works for you. Thought perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate.

Many thanks, 
Michael,


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Pick any bag. The only difference will be the pressure you run.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> Pick any bag. The only difference will be the pressure you run.


Let me guess.... Smaller the bag the more pressure?


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## CaseIH84 (Jun 16, 2013)

That's the theory behind the air bag. Air compresses where hydraulics do not. Therefore you get immediate response from air bag at point of compression. So say hay changes moisture content and bale gets more dense the air will compress in air bag and expansion tank while giving more room if you will, in chamber while keeping same amount of force on bale, allowing bale to be more constant. Expansion springs will exert more force the farther you push them. I have not run hydraulic tension so I will not say much to how that works other than I have heard people being pleased with it, but I would thinks there is going to be some delay for system to respond compared to air. Also works if you are baling two different types of hay like orchard grass to straight timothy. We do not run much air pressure in bag at all, like 15 pounds. Have been extremely pleased with results from air bag install. I have picture in my gallery of 3rd cutting hay that was made with same pressure in air bag as first cutting if you would like to see the bales.


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

I am selling this air bag setup. Ad is posted in the classified section. It works very well but I upgraded to a NH5070 Hayliner and no longer need it. Thank you.

IFF


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

I didn't know there was a classifieds section


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

IFF said:


> I am selling this air bag setup. Ad is posted in the classified section. It works very well but I upgraded to a NH5070 Hayliner and no longer need it. Thank you.
> 
> IFF


Why don't you need it? Do you have another system ?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

thendrix said:


> I didn't know there was a classifieds section


"Haytalk marketplace"


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Marketplace. Hmmm that make a little to much sense


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

The new NH5070 Hayliner has hydraulic tension so the air bag is no longer needed.

IFF


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

IFF said:


> The new NH5070 Hayliner has hydraulic tension so the air bag is no longer needed.
> 
> IFF


I've read that the air bag does a better job than the hydraulic tension, let us know your thoughts after you've used it, I'd be very interested in your opinion


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Bumping an old thread because I'm considering making one of these and have a few questions about how it's done in some of these pics here. I know the OP probably isn't posting anymore, but my questions can really be answered by any of you.

1. The metal straps that go around the air tank...how are those made/bent like that? Or I wonder if I could just use two ratchet straps.

2. There's two washers but no nut above the top support. It seems there would need to be nuts here and maybe he just didn't have them tightened all the way down?

3. Is the air tank just filled to the pressure you need, therefore requiring another air tank in the field to add pressure to it if needed? Or can this be fixed by a regulator (but then not allow expansion air back into the tank).


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

I have considered buying/building one my self. There will need to be nuts on top holding the bag in place. As far as the straps go I have some pipe hangers for I think 14” pipe that I was going to use that are already bent and fit around a air tank good I would just need to weld tabs to it to bolt to baker I guess you could use a ratchet strap or bend some smaller flat bar if you do not have a bender. And from what I understand you just figure out what pressure you bales and baler like and just put that in the tank so it can expand and contract with different conditions of the hay as needed no regulator as it uses the air tank kinda like a expansion tank or cushion. So if you ever need to add more are you will need to have a air compressor handy to do it.


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

Here is our project from earlier this year. Used it rebaling in late winter as well as this summer in the field. Works great. (excuse the dust, just went and snapped these pics)

https://www.harborfreight.com/5-gallon-portable-air-tank-65594.html


















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from eBay: Heavy Duty Standard 2500lb. Air Bags 1/2"npt Port fbss 583

















Shelia


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## Dr Dean (Nov 4, 2013)

I did basically the same thing as Rocky Hill did except I plumbed the air bag and the air tank together for a larger volume of air and less fluctuation of air pressure. I also got a 5 inch diameter pressure gauge from Surplus Center and mounted it so I can see it from the tractor. My air bag is a 6 inch if i remember correctly. Most of the time I run 30-35 PSI and don't notice having to change through the day. I will say it probably is the best thing I have done to my NH 276 since I bought it. My bales are for the most part identical, although I might get one or two up to 3-4 inches longer through the day. I shoot for 36" 60 pound bales and for the most part that is what I get.


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

I'd like to put some kind of set up like this, on my John Deer 338 Baler, but how would you go about putting this set up, on a Baler, with a Kicker? I don't think there would be enough room, under the kicker, to install it.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Bruce Hopf said:


> I'd like to put some kind of set up like this, on my John Deer 338 Baler, but how would you go about putting this set up, on a Baler, with a Kicker? I don't think there would be enough room, under the kicker, to install it.


There probably isn't with a pan kicker. Do you know how much clearance you have?


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

8350HiTech said:


> There probably isn't with a pan kicker. Do you know how much clearance you have?


 I'll have to measure, the clearances between the baler, and Kicker, when it's in neutral position, and side to side, and go from there.


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

Vol said:


> Air bags are supposed to maintain a constant bale poundage under changing conditions....they will fluctuate pressure to make a certain bale weight as the day goes on and the hay gets drier.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I still don't see the difference in air and hydraulic? I have got info from Scott Seaver's and unless it has a pump w/release valve and maintain a constant pressure.


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

thendrix said:


> Marketplace. Hmmm that make a little to much sense


Where is Haytalk marketplace?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Air and hydraulic both work well. Thing is homemade 100$ air bag setup works as good as the 3000$ hydraulic tension option and cost less than the first repair on the hydraulic tension system.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

gradyjohn said:


> Where is Haytalk marketplace?


https://www.haytalk.com/forums/forum/69-haytalk-marketplace/


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## RPG (Aug 15, 2019)

Can you provide some information on what fittings you attached onto the tank for regulating the air pressure.


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## Bf456 (Aug 13, 2017)

We run about 50psi float with an old air balloon party tank. Old Kenworth 40' trailer air bag. About same size I'd say. Never going back. Set it and go for a season. Unless pushing your luck at night with dew. Waitting for an airhawk or Milwaukee battery air tool for birthday present.

Tuning is about 7psi either way at start of harvest for us as depends on season and how late I start cutting etc. Once set I'm right to go. 10 bale accumulators / grab on fel setup.


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## Bf456 (Aug 13, 2017)

All painted up now. The air reg is just wound right up. Used as 4 way port only for all the 1/4" fittings and gauge.
Bigger float tank the better.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I am curious about the air bag might have to try one when you fill up the air tank do you fill it up to say a hundred lbs or whatever then regulate the air pressure that goes into the bag? seems like that way if you had a little leak the full tank of air would last all day at least. How do they work on bale length consisticy does it help? Thanks


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