# Appreciate some alfalfa advice



## bruceki (Feb 28, 2010)

I've got 40 acres of river-bottom land in washington state; on the west side. It's about a mile inland from the ocean, flat, mucky soil. Water table is high - 2' in the summer, 6" in the winter - which means that I don't have to worry much about irrigation. It floods every 15 years or so - 8' deep. The other 14 years it's not flooded. Right now the land has a planted stand of poplar trees (planted for pulp); land around it has got canary grass, fescue, clover and orchard grass. the surrounding parcels are mostly managed as grazing land.

Their aren't many dairies left within 50 miles, but there are lots of horse people who are used to paying $200-250/ton for alfalfa in small square bales, and I could probably charge a little more to deliver (dump) it.

I'm having the soil tested with an eye towards growing alfalfa on the land; it'll probably need to be limed; there are contractors that will do that. My other acreage nearby needed 2 tons of lime per acre + 15lbs of nitrogen for row crops; i'd expect this land to be similar.

I've got a 100hp tractor. My plant is to take 2-3 acres and borrow a grain drill from a neighbor and plant it in alfalfa, and see how it does. I really don't want to gear up until I can whether it can grow well.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach? 
I'd like opinions about types of alfalfa too. I've never raised it and really don't know the first thing about the plant. If I was after something that I could harvest for a few years, would I be picking a different strain or managing it differently?

My goal here is to do a test planting, with an eye towards selling retail to the horse people. There's lots of land around this that is not being used, so if I can make a go of it with this plot theres reason to believe that I can lease 400 or 500 acres within a mile.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

If your water table is that high, I don't think alfalfa will work at all. Alfalfa like "dry feet". It needs well drained soils and usually prefers lighter soils.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

Have to agree that the water table could make things tough for alfalfa production. With the horse people buy a grass hay?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Steve, the previous comments are correct. Alfalfa likely will not survive on your wet soil. An often heard comment is, "Alfalfa does not like wet feet." Another is, "If the subsoil is gray, stay away" from alfalfa- gray indicated excessive soil wetness caused by low soil oxygen content (except for Houston Black Clay and the black clay soils in Alabama.

The following Internet web site that will provide much of the information that you are seeking concerning selecting soils for alfalfa: Texas AgriLife Research and Extension Center at Overton When this Internet web site opens, look for "Forages, Crops, and Soils" at the upper left and click on soils research, publications, and then click on "Selecting Coastal Plain Soils for Alfalfa." This site relates site selection for alfalfa to the Natural Resources Conservation Service soil classification descriptors.
vhaby


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Sir, is there any data on the tissue level for boron that is the most productive?

Back to the Question, I really try to discourage the recreational horse owners from buying alfalfa hay. I will sell it to them if they insist though. The problem is alfalfa has more energy than a family pet horse can utilize. To keep the horse trim they have to limit feed their horses. A horse is built to eat forages 18 hours a day, & if they (the horses) become frustrated. When this happens they take up all kinds of bad habits.

My best customers for alfalfa have dairy goats. They can measure in the can the quality of the hay.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

There are a few varieties that are geared for wet areas - I don't know what they are, or how well they perform. I would bet that if you can get a normal afalfa established there, it might only last a year, maybe 2. The other problem you may have is getting the hay dry enough. River bottom ground is generally not where a guy wants to grow hay, it would be good for something that needs lots of water, maybe corn for grain. You'd be better to find some ground a little higher up. It is true that alfalfa won't grow when it's dry, but it'll die if the roots are wet, and the roots can be 3-4 feet long.

Rodney


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Rodney R said:


> It is true that alfalfa won't grow when it's dry, but it'll die if the roots are wet, and the roots can be 3-4 feet long.
> 
> Rodney


Alfalfa roots are usually 15 to 20 feet long on established alfalfa. That's why it grows well on sand ground where nothing else will grow without irrigation. Our sand has a water table that is about 12 ft down.


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## bruceki (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you for the input. The horse folks will buy hay; they prefer orchard grass (saying that based on price per bale at the local feed stores) or some sort of pasture mix that is mostly fescue.

20 foot long roots. I'll plant a small area, 1/2 an acre then, and see how it does. If it fails or doesn't thrive or survive the winter I'll move on to something else.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Then look for a variety that includes Wet in it's variety name. These have a more branched rooting system. That might work.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Hay Wilson in TX
If you will send an email to [email protected] I will send the data on alfalfa tissue levels of boron in a reply to you.

If anyone would tell me how to copy data from an Excel table and enter it into a reply message on Hay Talk, I might be able to share this information with everyone interested.
When I tried copying an Excel table and pasting it in a reply message, the columns of Excel data didn't stay in place, so the message was worthless and I deleted it.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I stand corrected - I was a little off, 4ft vs 15-20ft.


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## steve IN (Jan 13, 2010)

I would try timothy. Horses love it and it can stand wet feet . I would not even waste the money on a test plot for alfalfa. Good timothy that is made right will be better for horses.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

It may work if there is NO standing water.Standing water anytime of the year will kill the plants by smothering them if for more than a few days.And if it goes under 8' of water kiss it goodbye.









Does the ground get firrm enough for equipment?If you are making tracks making hay you will damage the crowns and the stand won't last long.

If you give it a try get a alfalfa with a high phytophera and disease ratings.

I do grow some alfalfa on some low wet ground,(probably not as wet as you are talking).And produce a lot of tons per acre because it does have the water to produce the hay.

If all else fails because its to wet Reed Canarary grass.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Standing water will kill almost anything. More than a few days it'll be dead for sure, and I recall reading that it was just a few hours. I'd seriously look for higher ground.

Rodney


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

When the alfalfa is close to or is dormant standing neck deep in water is not all that bad. If during the growing season the entire plant goes under water a few days will not be a problem. 
Alfalfa standing ankle deep in water during the growing season is not a good idea. 
Sitting on water saturated soil is not a good idea ether when the temperatures are up and the days are long.

What has not been addressed is "Wet Foot Root" other wise known as Phytophthora root rot (PRR). 
In my fathers time our alfalfa would drown. Later I learned of Wet Foot Root Rot, very description. I soon learned that there are some plants with good genetic resistance to PRR. I still have to look up the word to spell Phytophthora but it is there. Now days High Resistance is bred into many alfalfa varieties. 
Probably 15 or 20 years ago I heard that if your alfalfa also has a natural resistance to Aphanomyces root rot (Aph) fungus the PRR resistance works even better, In 2007 I had a graphic demonstration that this is true. That was the summer it rained and all my alfalfa with only a PRR High Resistance (HR) did not survive. The variety with PRR - HR AND Aph - R did survive a summer with the saturated soil. That combination is a good bit more difficult to find.

You can look up something you like at http://alfalfa.org/pdf/2010varietyleaflet.pdf


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## bruceki (Feb 28, 2010)

Grateful for your pointing out the reference to different types of seed. The tables are pretty helpful. You're right -- finding the combo of those two traits is pretty hard.


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## bruceki (Feb 28, 2010)

Noted -- timothy. Maybe its time to do a couple of plots to see what goes. I've already got canary grass, but it's generally sniffed at by the horse people. Unsure why -- undesirable strain, maybe?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

May not be a problem on your soil, but we planted about 5 acres of alfalfa along a ditchbank for a buffer strip and the soil type was gumbo. Used a variety for wet soils and it did great right until a drought. I never would have thought it, but that gumbo dried out, cracked open, and the stand was maybe 30% of what it was after that.


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

That is true about Timothy. You have to be careful on the West side of Oregon and Washington with it tho, one year it can be great and then it goes away. I've planted it many times and for what the seed costs and how small the seed is, it can be frustrating. The best is Timothy/Orchard grass. My customers love it and they are all Horse people. I put up about 14,000 plus bales every year and it's sold before it's cut. I charge 140 per ton of Orchard baling 65# bales. The Tim/Orch. combo you can go as high as your maket dictates. I charge 175 to 180 per ton putting up 65# bales. Richard.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

The horse people get their noses in the hair when it comes to reed canarygrass becuase many people out there view it as an invasive weed and not a forage crop. Additionally the unimproved varieties had a alkaloid issue, but that's not a problem with the improved varieties. If you can find a way to sell it, reed canarygrass would be a great choice to plant.


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