# RR Alfalfa longevity



## Joseph K (Feb 20, 2014)

Planted 80 acres of WL 372 RR seed 40 in the spring and 40 in the fall 3 years ago. Stands have been on a 4 cutting schedule and came in very well. First two years they both produced an average of 7-7.5 tons. Last year was the third year and the production dropped off to about 3 tons. Both stands have begun to get much much thinner and really are looking pretty rough, bad enough I put 10 lbs. of grass in one of them this spring planning on doing the same to the other this fall. Stands have been properly fertilized and we use yearly soil testing for diagnostics, water isn't an issue as we're irrigated, and we started with good stands so I just don't understand what's going on. Is the life of this stuff really this short?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm noticing something similar in non-RR alfalfa hereabouts. Stands are only lasting about 3-4 years.

I was mowing a 4yo 5 ac patch yesterday and it was t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e!!! We've had major issues with weevils and leaf-hoppers the last few years. The insects just seems to come on so strong when they emerge and the insecticides just don't seem to be effective.

It's been hard to get into the fields because of all the wet weather the last 2-3 years to spray when I first see them. And I'm guessing that the residual effects of the pesticides are being washed away.

But, my main thinking is that there is an abundance of insects left over because of the mild winters we've been having. From what I've read, only about 10% of the insect population survives a "normal" winter. So, I'm thinking that we having a much higher survival rate.

My guess is that the high survival rate, along with late spraying, ineffective pesticides, lack of residual effect and high moisture is contributing to alfalfa stands failing.

Ralph


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Joseph K said:


> Planted 80 acres of WL 372 RR seed 40 in the spring and 40 in the fall 3 years ago. Stands have been on a 4 cutting schedule and came in very well. First two years they both produced an average of 7-7.5 tons. Last year was the third year and the production dropped off to about 3 tons. Both stands have begun to get much much thinner and really are looking pretty rough, bad enough I put 10 lbs. of grass in one of them this spring planning on doing the same to the other this fall. Stands have been properly fertilized and we use yearly soil testing for diagnostics, water isn't an issue as we're irrigated, and we started with good stands so I just don't understand what's going on. Is the life of this stuff really this short?


I would guess that your soil tests would show it, but does the irrigation water have high sodium? We are starting to have those issues here, but then our irrigation water is mostly used then treated by Denver before we get it. But even some of the irrigation wells have high sodium. We are on the 4th year with RR alfalfa and except for the hail it got and freezes shortly there after it seems normal.


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## Joseph K (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks for the replies both of these are good points. Last year was a bad bug year for sure, I did spray but there was no way to totally avoid them. In fact, I already took my first here this year on 2 of my 3 fields just to get it away from the bugs so that certainley could have something to do with it. As far as the irrigation water sodium levels we usually dont tend to have a problem with sodium in the water as it's pretty good direct runoff from the colorado, but there is definitely some Alkalai ground around here and if water is not managed properly and is left standing you will definitely pull up salts. But neither of those 2 fields are particularly bad about it and I guess I would have assumed that even if there were some spots of salty ground that in theory the RR would have done better there than standard Alfalfa. I suppose I can't really complain too badly got two very good haying seasons, just wish I had known it may be so short lived, buying that seed at the prices they ask is brutal if you only get 2- 3 good hay years out of it.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Our Americas Alfalfa variety 455 TQ RR is in its 3rd year and beginning to flower in preparation for the third cutting this season. It's looking quite healthy and the stand remains strong. Here, on our sandy acid soils, lime, potassium, and boron are quite important, as well as is phosphorus. So far this season I've added 250 lb of potash per acre. Spraying for weeds and weevils at the proper time also helps.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Joseph K said:


> Thanks for the replies both of these are good points. Last year was a bad bug year for sure, I did spray but there was no way to totally avoid them. In fact, I already took my first here this year on 2 of my 3 fields just to get it away from the bugs so that certainley could have something to do with it. As far as the irrigation water sodium levels we usually dont tend to have a problem with sodium in the water as it's pretty good direct runoff from the colorado, but there is definitely some Alkalai ground around here and if water is not managed properly and is left standing you will definitely pull up salts. But neither of those 2 fields are particularly bad about it and I guess I would have assumed that even if there were some spots of salty ground that in theory the RR would have done better there than standard Alfalfa. I suppose I can't really complain too badly got two very good haying seasons, just wish I had known it may be so short lived, buying that seed at the prices they ask is brutal if you only get 2- 3 good hay years out of it.


I really think you should be getting more then 2-3 years out of it. My cousin is on year number 5 and it appears to have a couple more years in it. His and mine is WL brand RR.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Seems odd that not getting longevity out of RR alfalfa.Inserting the RR gene is not supposed to change the plant in any other way.Thats what we've been told anyway.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

We planted RR alfalfa last year, I wish the rest of our alfalfa looked as good as the RR.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

We just terminated our first RR alfalfa field last fall/this spring. I say it that way because it was hard to kill. I didn't see an undue weakening of the stand.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This picture was taken April 19, 2016. Field was sprayed with 2,4-D last fall.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Joseph K said:


> Planted 80 acres of WL 372 RR seed 40 in the spring and 40 in the fall 3 years ago. Stands have been on a 4 cutting schedule and came in very well. First two years they both produced an average of 7-7.5 tons. Last year was the third year and the production dropped off to about 3 tons. Both stands have begun to get much much thinner and really are looking pretty rough, bad enough I put 10 lbs. of grass in one of them this spring planning on doing the same to the other this fall. Stands have been properly fertilized and we use yearly soil testing for diagnostics, water isn't an issue as we're irrigated, and we started with good stands so I just don't understand what's going on. Is the life of this stuff really this short?


Have to ask, is the possible winter kill from not allowing enough grow degree days after last cutting (or next to last, it last cutting is after dormancy) for plant's to rebuild their reserves?

In my AREA, I like to have 450-500 growth degree days before killing freeze.


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## man of steel (Feb 1, 2010)

Gearclash said:


> image.jpeg
> 
> This picture was taken April 19, 2016. Field was sprayed with 2,4-D last fall.


I can tell you right now that you planted it upsidedown. How do you get the spray to fall UP


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

man of steel said:


> I can tell you right now that you planted it upsidedown. How do you get the spray to fall UP


I think you just have to use helium as your spray adjuvant.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Didn't know that 2,4-D would upend a crop...just kidding. Why would you have not used 2,4-D/dicamba (Weed Master) to kill the RR alfalfa?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

reede said:


> I think you just have to use helium as your spray adjuvant.


We have politicians come and spray it. Their hot air makes the spray rise. 



vhaby said:


> Didn't know that 2,4-D would upend a crop...just kidding. Why would you have not used 2,4-D/dicamba (Weed Master) to kill the RR alfalfa?


Dicamba would have been a better choice. That would have been the elevator's call (they sprayed it). Part of the problem was it was last cut very late in the season, 5 cuttings, and there was not enough regrowth for good herbicide effectiveness.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have noticed the same with a leaf hopper variety I planted, planted in the fall of 2010, first three years were fantastic, now it's barely worth mowing if your after alfalfa.

Part of it I'm sure is the incredibly wet weather we've had here the previous three years, last year I couldn't get on it till August and still had spots we avoided with the loader and trucks. But I've noticed even the high spots have more OG than alfalfa now.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Besides the thoughts about insect population surviving the warm winters, I'm wondering if the milder winters are also causing more frost heaving. From what I understand about water freezing, it is at its maximum volume at 32 degrees.

So, I'm thinking that a warmer winter leads to more freeze/thaw cycles which in turn leads to more frost heaving which in turn, leads to more crown damage.

Just guessing.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Only time we ever had a problem with heaving it was obvious, crowns of the alfalfa were 6 inches above the ground, not saying minor heaving won't damage the root or crown and not be noticeable though. Planting OG with the alfalfa helps to stop the heaving. Alfalfa can also be smothered out, get some snow then a crust of ice on top of that and it can smother, one of the reasons Purdue likes to see at least six inches of regrowth before a killing frost.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

One thing that will shorten the life of an alfalfa stand is to cut it on a short rotation. If the stand is cut on an average of 26-28 days, it will play-out sooner than a stand that is cut on a 33-36 day rotation. Shorter cutting rotations will make higher quality feed, but you will pay the price with shorter stand life. Letting the stand get to about 10% bloom before cutting will lengthen the life of it.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Hugh,

10% bloom stage for cutting alfalfa is the ideal to strive for. Here, when a weather pattern opens that will allow alfalfa to dry for baling, we have to cut, if it is close to ready. So far this year, our alfalfa has not made it to 10% bloom in three cuttings. It's a different year.

Vincent


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Talking with my cousin last night over a beer after finishing up first cutting, his thought was that alfalfa seed producers are probably breeding shorter life varieties as they also breed traits like leaf hopper resistance..

When you think about it from a seed producers viewpoint, there is no benefit in selling a long life variety. They make their income from seed sales! If a stand only lasts 3 years instead of 6, that is effectively doubling their sales.

My guess is you won't see a seed producer advertising "Our alfalfa seed features leaf-hopper resistance, round up ready and two year stand life."

Ralph

"When you eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes


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## Hawk40 (Jun 28, 2015)

I got a window just a day or two before first blooms showed on first cut and laid down 40 ac RR alfalfa. Barely got it in the stack before the rain came back but the yield ( year 3 ) was exactly double last years which was cut at 50%+ bloom due to weather. I was wondering if passing up a potential 4th cutting last fall would account for the increase? It was on its way for a light 4th cutting but got a couple hard frosts on it and stopped so I left it alone.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hawk40 said:


> I got a window just a day or two before first blooms showed on first cut and laid down 40 ac RR alfalfa. Barely got it in the stack before the rain came back but the yield ( year 3 ) was exactly double last years which was cut at 50%+ bloom due to weather. I was wondering if passing up a potential 4th cutting last fall would account for the increase? It was on its way for a light 4th cutting but got a couple hard frosts on it and stopped so I left it alone.


Where was this? FL or ID? I'm guessing ID.

It's kind of late hereabouts for 1st cutting, which could account for the increase yield. Also, third year stand is about at its peak for production. And, I do think that skipping the 4th cutting would probably contribute to the yield.

Ralph


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## Hawk40 (Jun 28, 2015)

Idaho. I'm in a valley that gets colder than the local region in general.
Early to mid June is as early as I've ever had alfalfa ready here. Have seen it make it to July without bloom. June can be a wierd month in these parts, quite often colder than May.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hawk40 said:


> Idaho. I'm in a valley that gets colder than the local region in general.
> Early to mid June is as early as I've ever had alfalfa ready here. Have seen it make it to July without bloom. June can be a wierd month in these parts, quite often colder than May.


Yield probably has a lot to do with your Growing Degree Days. Any way you could get the GDD recods for last year vs this year might give you a big clue.

Ralph


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