# Organic Hay



## smacken3 (Nov 2, 2008)

Does anyone grow organic hay or would anyone like to? I'm starting a farm and we're wanting to grow organic alfalfa and maybe a grass or oats with it. I am curious as to what other farmers think about organic.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but im going to ask it anyway. What could you put on alfalfa to replace the large volume of potash you need for ferdlize. I dont spray for weeds because it will kill my orchard grass, But i do put what ferdlize it calls for, so is mine organic.( I do spray for weavels if it needs it)


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## hayfarmer (Nov 9, 2008)

Organic farming is usually done in small operations. The cost is so high very few are willing to pay what you would have to charge. Chicken manure is a common substitute for phosporus and also provides a little nitrogen. So called organic pesticides (made from plants and herbs not chemicals) are used (very expensive even if you can find them). They also use preditor insects to control your pest. So you would have to find an insect that will kill the weevels. This practice is not very efficient, which results in a lot of crop lost.

Most producer end up cheating (use commerical fertilizers and pesticides) in order to make a profit.

If you think your customers are picky and demanding, just start doing business with someone willing to pay for organic products. Remember these people are modivated by the fear that they are being poisoned by chemicals used to produce crops.

Organic crops sounds good but is not very practical.


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## smacken3 (Nov 2, 2008)

I believe that most farmers are mis-educated when it comes to organic farming. 
First of all you can put raw fertilizers into the soil which may be more inexpensive than traditional fertilizers. Raw fertilizers = crushed rock. Also developing a in-farm composting system will greatly reduce your input costs. The downside to organic is not the expense but the labor and forethought involved. The theory is basically if you take care of your soil and produce strong natural plants, your crop will have a higher resistance to pests and disease. Also by encouraging natural habitats for pest predators (ex. bat houses), you can reduce pests at a lower cost...
The objective of organic farming is not pure profit but building your soils to be sustainable...which in turn will be more profitable in the long run.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Im not trying to start a argument but were do you get these cheap raw materials for ferdlizer and the bat houses ( they cost money and repairs) and you have to have predators for your insects and if you dont ,I know i can spray and kill them better than i hope the predators can eat them all up before the insects do me in . My point is if you want to experiment on a small scale that would be great ,but to truly make any money it would be impossible to do it on a big scale. Its hard enough fighting the weather , I cant imagine trying to make it worse. If it was easier we would all be doing it. THANKS ,just my opinion.THOMAS


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

Have to agree wholeheartily with BCFENCE - organic doesn't work! We use a lot of manures - have one employee - that is his whole job, haul chicken litter, horse manure, composted hog manure, composted mushroom stumps, etc. These are tools! These are not complete systems within themselves. They add organic matter to the soil, they add water retension capacity, they slowly release small amounts of nutreints for several years, helping when you miss or can't afford a fertilizer application. This is an analysis on some horse manure we were spreading last week .365 N, 8.39 P, 11.4 K. Even at 4 tons per acre, we only got 1 lb of N on the ground. We did a lot of other good things, but that orchardgrass will need a little N come spring, and some p and k too. On the other hand, one of our farms has 3 million chickens on it over the course of one year and we have spread thousands of tons of chicken litter over it, but now the P levels are too high and no more chicken litter for that farm, it will have to go to other farms next year. In the south, we are getting good levels of sulfur from the atmosphere, but where do you get your boron? and since it is mined, is it organic like lime, or not organic like phosphorus.

And how do you propose making any good hay consistantly on more than 50 acres without proponic acid or silo guard or something.

And yes, your soil is your future! Farming is not a 2 year project, it is a 200 yr project, it is a lifestyle, a passion!


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

Take a look at Eureka. It's an organic product cleared for baled hay and organic silages (similar to SiloGuard).

It's a natural product and has been cleared by OMRI for use in organic farming.


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

www.eurekaorganic.com


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

I am a little ignorant on some of the details of this organic labeling. What is the difference between DAP 18-46-0 mined from the ground in Florida and "naturally mined sulfur compounds" found in this product? Why is phosphate mined from the ground "bad", and sulfur mined from the ground "good"?


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

The sulfur that is mined from the ground is approved for organic use. It is an oxygen scavenger. Mold and most yeast cannot grow in an anaerobic environment. Plant respiration and mold/yeast reproduction is what causes heating in hay. When we reduce the potential for mold growth, we also reduce the potential for heating.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, I understand how to inhibit mold growth, that was not the question. The question was why is sulfur mined from the ground "good" and phosphorus mined from the ground "bad"? Why is crushed rock - ie lime "good", and potash, "bad"?


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## 4020man (Jun 21, 2008)

I have been asking that same question for a couple years and have never got a direct answer. I only got a roundabout answer and some BS on the "evils" of "modern farming"


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Production Acres said:


> Yes, I understand how to inhibit mold growth, that was not the question. The question was why is sulfur mined from the ground "good" and phosphorus mined from the ground "bad"? Why is crushed rock - ie lime "good", and potash, "bad"?


I was told it was the acid that they treat the potash with so it releases faster.If thats rite or not I don't know for sure.I asked about getting untreated potash but never got an answer from local fert dealer.This was yrs back and I havn't pursued it sinse.


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## msparks (Feb 3, 2009)

Production Acres said:



> The question was why is sulfur mined from the ground "good" and phosphorus mined from the ground "bad"? Why is crushed rock - ie lime "good", and potash, "bad"?


Our sulfate of potash is organic certified, but our phosphorus which comes from bonemeal is not certified because of the "acid wash". They have so many funny rules.


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

Anyone coming to the OEFFA show in Granville, OH next weekend? If so, be sure to stop by the Eureka booth. We'll have samples of Eureka and will be demonstrating the Gazeeka microwave moisture tester.

The same setup will be at the MOSES show in LaCrosse, WI the following week.


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