# Fall cutting - first freeze date



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I am getting ready to do my last alfalfa cutting and was checking the first freeze date for the St Louis area - it ranged from 10/5 to 10/29. I usually try to get my last cutting by Sept. 1st, but for a gazillion reasons, I couldn't get it done this year. Then, of course, it rained.

I know the recommendation for alfalfa is to allow 6 weeks for recovery.

So who do I trust on the first freeze date?

Any thoughts?

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Check your local university. Purdue Agricultural says one month before freeze, and according to their chart, historic first killing frost in St. Joseph County, In. is October 15th. Course last year we didn't get our first killing frost until November.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I just cut it.Maybe cut a little higher and leave a little more stubble.

Always heard the reccomendation HERE Mn/Iowa border was also Sept 1.Not that I follow it.I still have 100 acres to cut.*#@! RAIN


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## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

It would be nice to make a good decision based on good info, and get a good result. But I really believe that you are more or less just playing with the odds of normal (or not) weather. I used to try and plan the last cut like you are doing, but eventually got more acres and it became impossible to do it that way. Now that we are constantly cutting and baling I really just ignore the calendar and cut where there is a crop to cut. The result hasn't been any worse than before. Regrowth is nice, but I have lost stands to winterkill that had plenty of growth, and had no problems where I mowed it bare. I do believe that a late cutting can take away tonnage from next years first crop, but I still can't resist harvesting what's there for the taking. The worst winterkill I have had has always happened when we get a long early spring warm spell and then a nasty cold snap that refreezes the topsoil. That really zaps the hay. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, like a lot of decisions in this business only a crystal ball to forcast the wacky weather could make everything perfect.


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## jhag (Dec 25, 2009)

Here in Eastern Ontario, We are supposed to quit Sept. 1st, but hay producers don't seem to pay too much attention to the date. For instance, this year we have had rain in almost every 24 hr. period since the middle of August. If you depend on making hay for a living, you have to try and get that last cut of hay off no matter what the date. I have not noticed a reduction in the following year's crop.

Jim


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## thebonepile (Sep 18, 2009)

I am starting to agree on just ignoring the calendar and get what you can when you can. I am a very small guy so take this for what it is worth. But I do have a couple observations.

After a good hard killing freeze, after about a week, all that is left of an alfalfa plant is one tiny tiny stalk. you have basically lost everything that WAS there, I don't think much will be left for next year (unlike a grass crop)

Second, when is a killing frost? alfalfa is so thick in some places, I would bet it would have to get into the low 20's before the stuff at ground level freezes and quits growing. Look at your lawn, even after a freeze, or several or a small snow, the grass keeps growing and stays green for a long long time. Even up here in SD, there have been times when temps have probably gotten down to 10 degrees then a couple weeks later, it warms back up and the grass is still green. Granted, it doesn't get tall, but lays down right away, but it maintains an alive, green color almost anytime there is growing temps. I really don't think stuff stops growing until the ground freezes - then it realizes it is time to be dormant for the year.

I have stuff yet to do, (some knee high - and we are a couple weeks from the first frost date) (southeast SD), so I also am debating what to do, but most likely I will wait for a good cutting window and go. Hopefully get the baler put away before the first big snow.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

thebonepile said:


> Second, when is a killing frost? alfalfa is so thick in some places, I would bet it would have to get into the low 20's before the stuff at ground level freezes and quits growing.


If I remember it has to get down to 27 degrees F. for a minimum of three hours for it to be considered a killing frost for alfalfa.


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

is it true that if your cuts were when the plants have been flowered for a long time, the roots ave lots of reserve for the winter?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Well, Thanks everybody.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and cut it to clean up the fields. I don't need the hay this year, but I do want a good, clean first cutting next year and, if it don't rain much tomorrow, I'm guessing I still have time to get a good regrowth.

Ralph


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, I just finished cutting and finally baling 130 acres of alfalfa. The day I was going to bale, the hay would only reach 22% moisture. Just couldn't get the stems dry. This was in North Dakota. Needless to say, it rained for the next 3 days. A total of 7 inches in a state that the normal rainfall is 14-15 inches. when it was all said and done, I baled 9- 5x6 bales leaving 50 acres in the field that was not worth raking. This is from a field that typically is a good producer. I wish I had not cut it and left it for a good first cutting next year. I blew a lot of money messing with that field and taking a chance on some winterkill. Had it not been for the rain, I would have been rolling the dice but should be ok now. I like to see 8" of regrowth before the first hard frost. If it weren't for the 100 acres of grass that I cut, it would have been a bust. Good luck in whatever you decide. Our frost date is Sept.15 . Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Wow! And I though we had a lot of rain!

The thing I am most confused about is the first freeze date published on the Internet. I've seen from 10/5 to 11/8. If it's before 10/15, I'd wait, otherwise I'll mow after this next rain moves through.

I am concerned about drying--it seldom gets below 60% humidity here and, with the shorter days, it might take an extra day.

The 10 day forecast calls for a slight chance Saturday, then low 80's and sunny until Wednesday.

"To mow or not to mow, that is the question. Whether 'tis noble to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortunes. Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?" Hamlet must have been a hay producer!

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Best bet for your freeze date is to check the website of your local ag university. I did look in my trusty Purdue Field guide and it listed Marion county (Indianapolis) as having a average date of below 32 F. as being October 18th with the first average date of temp falling below 28 F. as being October 28th. Since St. Louis is a little further south than Indy, I'd take a wild guess and say the first killing frost would be more in the neighborhood of the 1st of November or even the first week of November.

When making the last cutting I always plan on an extra day...or three.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The Freeze Date is and average so like anything else it is just a guide in this wonderful world of haying.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

On top of trying to squeeze in the last hay cutting, the soybeans are ripe and ready to combine, the corn is close behind.....corn stalk baling is coming soon....its been quite a wild ride this growing season!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> The Freeze Date is and average so like anything else it is just a guide in this wonderful world of haying.


No doubt, last year we waited until November for a killing frost, the year I got married we had a hard frost the night before our wedding. Got married on September 16th. Was hard enough to finish off the beans and corn but didn't get the hay.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, I would say it is time to celebrate your anniversary today. Congrats to you ! Have a crown and ginger on me and send me the bill. LOL Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

So I went ahead and mowed 2 smaller fields Friday, 0% chance of rain through Tuesday, plenty of drying time--right!!!!! Saturday night/Sunday .8" so far and more coming!

Glad I only mowed the older fields and not my newer ones!

Ralph


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