# Hay Toxins



## RockyAcres (Jul 8, 2013)

Let me start by apologizing if I completely butcher any of the following terminology, I'll be very up front in disclosing that I only understand about half of the research I've done over the past few days.

A friend of mine recently lost a horse and has another in very poor condition due to (unknowingly) feeding some very bad hay to her horses. The lab results from her hay were:

Diacetexyscirpenol - 826 ppb

HT-2 4226 ppb

Neosolaniol - 377 ppb

T-2 toxin - 7186 ppb

She has had the same supplier for several years and has never had any issues with the hay prior to this year.

So... being the relatively inexperienced supplier that I am, this has prompted me to do some research so that I don't ever produce hay that could harm someone's animals. This research has confirmed exactly how much I don't know about the finer points of making/selling hay. So, as I understand it, "Mycotoxins" is basically a generic term that covers several toxins in a specific category and this is essentially a fungal disease. However, what is alarming to me is that in my friend's case, there was no dust in the bales, visible signs of mold, and no noticable heat detected when opening the bale, yet she still had these remarkably high toxin counts in her hay.

Sorry for the extensive background, here's my questions for those of you baling hay:

Do you have your hay lab tested, and if so, how often ? Once per year ? Once per cutting ? Also do you have each field tested seperately ?

Are there any testing kits available for home use, that may not give the specific results of a lab, but at least let you know you have a problem ? Clearly, the dust/mold/heat testing process that I've used to this point is not enough.

Is this occurance with my friend anything you've heard of, or is this just remarkably bad luck ?

Are there any special storage considerations you use to prevent this ? Many of the articles I've read have indicated that these toxins can be established in the field *or* in storage.

Would appreciate anyone's input on this. My key takeaway that my philosophy of cut it dry, bale it dry, and store it dry is not quite as thorough as it probably should be.

Thanks.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

First educated swag: She wasn't feeding her horses enough.

My experience is that horses will usually avoid anything not good for them IF they have an adequate feed supply--but not necessarily overabundant. When they get hungry enough, they will eat anything, just like us.

We would not eat maggot filled food like sailors in the 14-1700's while at sea, unless we got hungry enough.

I have seen underfed horses eating the bark off of black walnut trees because they were underfed. (Black walnuts contains a natural insecticide called juglan which cause horse's hooves to de-laminate.)

All hay will contain mycotoxins to a greater or lesser degree. It's the greater degree that causes problems.

My second educated swag: She tried to save some money by buying cheap hay. A quality producer scouts their fields, looks for problems and takes care of the problem before it becomes a problem. Unscrupulous producers bales set-aside (CRP) ground, roadsides, etc., and who knows whats in the bale.

My third educated swag: She might have been feeding 3rd/4th cutting alfalfa that maybe got blister beetles in it.

If you could get more specific information,, it would help with a diagnosis.

Personally, I don't worry about mycotoxins--I have enough other things to worry about.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## RockyAcres (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Ralph. I now understand that all hay contains mycotoxins, but to your point about the greater degree causing problems, how do you know there's a greater degree ? Are there any symptoms you can spot in the field ? Anything to look for once it's baled ? Or is just a matter of getting it tested ?

Also, before this gets too far off the rails, I may have provided too much background information leading up to my questions. What I'm interested in is how to make sure (to the best of my ability) that the hay I produce never causes this issue.

Thanks again.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

What kind of hay is your friend feeding. Also what kind of hay are you growing. This would help to know. As some weeds are toxic. Some grass hay can get ergot when headed out. Also an increase in certain insects can become toxic.

Like was said above generally all animals including us have working taste buds. This allows us not to eat toxic stuff because it tastes very bad usually some form of bitter. But if the animal is under feed at all than they will eat something that does taste bad just because hunger overrides.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Best rule of thumb: Use your senses--if it smells good, feels good, looks good, sounds good, tastes good, it's probably good. Hay put up under the right conditions usually won't have anything wrong with it. Put up too wet, well.....

Another example, dust may come from the cutting (ash or last year's dead growth) or the rake being set too low. A lot of dust, does it pass the smell test?

Otherwise, look for things like noxious weeds such as horse nettle, thistles, night shade, curly/sour dock. These often give you clues that the producer wasn't tending to his fields well enough. But do keep in mind that even the best tended fields might have a touch of these, especially when they get older. E.g, one or two horse nettle plants in a load--probably OK; one or two per small bale--probably not OK.

Just my thoughts....

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Having seen horses eat absolute garbage hay and the only effect is developing respiratory problems, I'm assuming something else is amiss in the hay such as ergot or blister beetle or botulism etc.


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## MT hayer (Mar 1, 2014)

I would agree with slowzuki here. There is more to the picture I feel. Something like the weeds mentioned earlier? We generally don't have to worry bout all the other stuff in our fields such as you guys do. Quite a few people test feed here. Especially if there is a chance of nitrate in hay barley, oat or any annual crop. No generally we don't test for those toxins. Know your stand of hay, and put it up right, and don't look back.

Ralph brings up a good point. Does the horse have enough to eat or was it Hungary and started eating posts, licking an old can rolling around? Sometimes you wonder about those people.....


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

old batteries can sometimes cause trouble with the lead. Maybe there was an old battery in the horse pasture or even one in the hay field that got hit.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

rjmoses said:


> First educated swag: She wasn't feeding her horses enough.
> 
> My experience is that horses will usually avoid anything not good for them IF they have an adequate feed supply--but not necessarily overabundant. When they get hungry enough, they will eat anything, just like us.
> 
> ...


Ralph, nice summary.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

I have been wondering the same thing about Mycotoxins, mainly in wrapped hay. Botulism is my biggest concern, and is there an easy way to test, or what to look for.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Pretty much completely agree with Ralph. Given the lab results....Hungry horses eating moldy hay that is likely full of weeds probably from a low fertility field. The question I still have is "was there an autopsy?". Typically horses don't just fall over dead. If they do, a decent vet will usually take a look to see if he/she can determine the cause. The cost is usually less that what it costs to haul the remains out for disposal. If it was blister beetle, you'll see the blisters and they will have had diarrhea. I'd suspect they were pasture pets, likely stuck in a barn because of weather, with only cheap hay to eat. Sad.....


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Grateful11 posted a topic on the ergot fungus late last July (link to that thread is below). The only thing I could recommend would be to change the hay the horses are eating, hopefully you can find some hay that other people have used with no problems. As soon as I read the article that Grateful11 posted, I checked the remaining hay that was still standing in my fields and didn't find any. I also called my customers and talked to them about it in case their animals started having problems (either from my hay or from someone else's).

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/20150-widespread-fungus-ergot-killing-cattle-across-missouri/?hl=ergot


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