# stackwagon tiers loaded on a truck?



## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Just wondering how y'all do it. We've been running a stackwagon, and it groups the bales 3 wide by 6 deep, on edge, and that gives 18 bales per layer (tier). That is in incredible waste of space on a flatbed truck, so we hand stack all of the trucks - bring the layers off the stack with a grabber, and simply re-arrange them on the truck to maximize payload. This was all well and good when I didn't load all the trucks, or when we had hired help to do it..... but I now do 95% of the stacking on the trucks. On occasion I have help, but my back is beginning to hurt. So how does everybody do it? I had thought about switching the systems - going away from the stackwagon, and getting something else, but everything that I'm aware of has some sort of BIG drawback. About 25% of the hay gets stuffed into van trailers right now, so going away from the stackwagon pattern isn't a benefit - is there anyway (machine) to go from a stackwagon layer (3x6) to a layer from something like an accumulator - where the tie bale is either on the side or in the center - that would be 5 (or 10 or 15) bales laying flat =I= or ==I

Something that I need to build my self?

Rodney


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## Cannon (Aug 18, 2009)

Labor is the #1 reason I moved from small bales to the big balers. With my bales we need mechanical muscle to move them.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Also not an option. I would have to call the auctioneer before I'd get a 3x3 baler. The market here is flooded with 3x3's, and little bales are the ones folks need.

Rodney


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## chief-fan (Aug 27, 2009)

I don't think your going to get away from hand stacking in a van trailers. Also, I don't think the problem is that your handling the bales but HOW your handling them. Sounds like your using the twin to move the bales around. The twine is put on the bales to hold them together, not to be throwing them around. Learn to effectively use a bale hook and half you work is gone and so is your back hurting for the most part. I have had a bad back for 55+ years and I still handle small squares but with a bale hook. I don't mean to be critical of your situation, but very few people, especially hay growers know how to use, or even own a bale hook any more. Good luck with your hay growing.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I don't know if Rodney uses a hook but he moves a LOT of hay.

After 22 years as a hay dealer I have grown to dislike hooks. Have had them in tires, spent hours looking for the lost hook, seen grown man pulled out 2nd story door to flatbed deck when hooks wouldn't disengage and been "saved" by father with a hook when he thought I was losing my balance on top layer. When pushed I can stack hay much quicker using the twine. Granted, I am talking about 35 to 50 lb. bales. Western bales would be different.

Rodney, a lot of improvements and new dealers to the product I favor. The competitions machine has good reviews. I am biased but if your gonna load vans....

Kelly


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Kelly,
I hear what you're saying. I know that both machines are good. The loading vans is the easy part - we have one guy who has brought his own forklift, and uses it to load his vans. We can do it in under an hour. I'm seriously thinking about buying an old garbage truck to push 'blocks' of hay into vans. The thing that I'm really wresting with is loading/unloading on open flatbeds. I was hoping to load the trucks with the bales flat. It looks like I need some elbow grease to turn the bales flat.... I'm not sure how hooks would give any less strain on shoulders and backs? I've always used the strings. neighbor uses hooks, and the few times I have helped him I had to be reminded to STAY CLEAR!

Rodney


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## okhillbilly (Jun 18, 2009)

Need to check into a rotating grapple? Maybe a way to unstack and restack sideways against a backrest and build a new stack flat. Then load trucks off this new stack ?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I see what you're saying, I think - a grabber that has it's own rollback, so that when you set it down, it's a vertical grab, vs one on ground level. Never thought of that, but I'm betting that would work. This is why a fresh set of eyes and ears is good, I was focused on handling existing grabs, but this method would turn existing ones into new ones.... Thanks!

Rodney


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Neat idea! I was rolling your question around in my mind and didn't see any answer.

I guess your bulkhead would have to have a serious lean to it to keep it from falling back toward you when grabs are released. It will take a lot of space to be able to access it from two different sides if you want to alternate layers on the truck as I would imagine you need a roof over such an operation.

Another approach, if you wanted to use a standard grapple, would be to lay the whole stack over after it is built. Picture a dump truck with no sides and a tailgate 5 layers tall. After setting 5 sets of 18 on from the side, raise bed until vertical and remove 6 sets of 15. Remove the bed from the truck to get it closer to ground level and mount it on a turntable so you can rotate as necessary to get grabs from end or side. Of course you will need a remote control on loader for all functions and appropriate warning lights/horns and safety railing etc..... Yeah, ignore all of this and get a hook!

Back to reality and the garbage truck loader. I know a guy from Virginia who has seen trailers ruined from such a contraption. He backs van up to modified flatbed that can be moved to different storages. Load grabs to appropriate height and a skidloader with a bulkhead pushes the stack from flat all the way to the front of van. Repeat until loaded. It has low sideboards, chains to connect trailers during loading, and ramps to load the skiddy. Cheap and works slick.

Kelly


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Kelly,
I have heard one other report of a garbage truck pusher wrecking a trailer. I wonder if it's something that happens a lot? I talked to a guy the other day that says he has a dealer that has a tractor (an old cheapie) on the flatbed, and does the same thing that you described the skidloader as doing. I guess that would be more versitlile - you could use the trailer like a normal trailer if you had to, if it had a hydraulic pusher on it, that would be semi-permanent.

I think the other idea about the bulkhead will work pretty cheap - I'm invisioning some sort of movable rack, you have to remember that the stackwagon tiers are much wider than they are deep, and going into it from the side isn't necessary. I'm guessing that some sort of 'tie row' would have to be added to the truck every 3rd row, and that might require some hand work. I think I'll be able to handle that, but doing 100% of the hand work is a killer.

Rodney


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## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)




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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Out west you would be hard pressed to find someone to load hay. Hay farmers just won't do it. One or two loaders I have seen around here run around with tractor trailer rigs, and grapples, and will do it for a huge price. That said I have seen small and big bales loaded into enclosed semi trailers with a grapple. They back up a flat bed truck, the same height, at a right angle to the rear of the semi trailer. They use the grapple and load the flat bed, then shove that stack into the semi trailer. They keep repeating that until it is full. Unloading is another matter.









If I have a steady female customer that buys hay I will load for them if I am not busy, usually in the winter. A lot of 4X4 flat beds out here. I throw the bales up and they rearrange. Usually they only buy a few bales at a time. I refuse to load for men. I'm 72 and If I can throw a 70 pound bale up on a stack so can they.









In the west they know the policy. They get trained fast if they buy a horse and need hay. This is Wyoming. CA west is totally different.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Rodney, I believe the problem with the garbage truck pusher was ripping bumper off of van. The two needed to be chained together as load is nearly full or one or the other moves. Very little in the way of support for rear of vans.

Kelly


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Kelly,
I had heard about a bale going through the roof with a grabage pusher. But, I suppose that could happen with any method of pushing bales front. I can see that both have their advantages - with the garbage pusher, all the bales are smooshed together, and that might facilitate getting an extra row in the trailer. You'd only really have to worry about the first set of bales falling over/apart. I can see that pushing each 'block' individually would be easier on the trailer, there would be less mechanical stuff to go wrong/design/build/maintain, and the trailer could be used for something else. I had another idea today, I'll start a new post.

Rodney


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Hi Rodney,

Sorry to get off topic, but where you at that the market is saturated with 3x3s? Jusr curious. Thanks.


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## r mac (Jan 11, 2010)

Rodney

I'm new here so and not very good on a computer. We load our straw and customers hay when they buy it. I load it by my self in dry vans with a JD 3400 telehandler and two grapples. One grapple takes out stack wagon tiers and the others puts in the trailer. We built an adjustable platform that can be used to load the whole trailer or just the last layer. We also load straw (so far no hay) on flat bed trailers with the grapple that pick-up stack wagon tiers. We have to switch the tier tie layer to 18 bale layer. We load the bottom layer flat and then 5 layers on edge. We use ropes to tie the first 4 layers and then another rope over the top. We also add rope from the back to the front and hook a ratchet strap to pull it tight. I saw another man load 3 layers on edge then put shade cloth front to back then put on 3 more layers and just ratchet strap on each row. I put some pictures in my photo album if I done it correctly. This is our system and it works for us.

r mac


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

downtown,
We're in eastern PA, a little over an hour from NJ to the east and philly is a little over an hour to the south east. Most everything we have goes south of us about 2 hours, and nearly all of that goes into barns that were built 200 years ago, or more. We have some customers that are the end user, and the rest goes to folks that buy our hay on a big truck, and then ship it out on their own truck, maybe 75-150 bales at a shot. None of our buyers would even look at a 3x3 bale. Some of the brokers make their own, or buy some, but not enough to have all of our production in 3x3's. Most of the 3x3's go to dairy folks around here, and they like 3x3's or even 3x4's because there is $50-100/ton discount on 3x3's or 3x4's. I can't make that pencil out. Many of the guys who used to make little bales now make 3x3's simply because of the labor issue. I guess there still aren't enough 3x3's here, but we have too much overhead to take the discount to sell 3x3's.

So I'm an oddball - I like little bales. Our ground isn't deep enough for corn, and we have too many deer for soybeans. The only thing we can do is hay, and the easiest way to sell it, and the best profit, is in little bales.

Rodney


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Ever thought of a 2 wide blockstacker insted of a 3 wide wagon? This might make a package that will just stack in a trailer? Dont know the sizes exactly. I know they work great on a flat bed and most block stackers will make a hay pile any way you want that dosent require restacking by hand when loading.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I doubt most folks would bother to deal with a 3 string bale. Many of them put a whole bale in a net and let the horse eat till it's gone. The illegal workers would be gone even faster if they had bales that heavy! I have seen the squeezes load trucks in just a few minutes, but i think the 3 string bales would be too tight to keep well in our area. One of our biggest problems is not the weather when we're baling hay, but the weather that we have AFTER we bale the hay. I think a 3 string would run the risk of going bad..... we're sorta 'pushing' the hay to keep right now with 2 string bales....

Rodney


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

The 2 wides will work with a 2 string 16X18.... they seem to make a nice stack. I have seen some 2 wide wagons pick up a 14X18 but i dont think it works as well... however the person running it seemed to move through the field fast.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

I don’t know if you can see it... this is loading a trailer... I can get 5 ton on a 25 ft deck with only moving the tie tears around. It turns out to be 4 bales high not very efficient use of space but less handling. For taking it out of the stack if you have two stacks together depending on what your grapple is made for you can pick 3 batches off of one tier of 10 bales in our case, I guess 12 in yours. So long as all tie tears are at the same level.... this works ok…


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## r mac (Jan 11, 2010)

This the way I load vans. I don't have any pictures on my computer loading a flat bed. I load wheat straw mainly but do load hay for custom customer.

r mac


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

r mack,

that looks like a nice way to do it. I stacked one by hand one time with a local farmer pushing it to me with his tractor and grapple. Good money but it think it was a bit hard on me.... Dusty Dusty! You build a tier at a time?


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## baledog (Jul 30, 2008)

Very nice pictures hay hauler... I assume that is a 580 baler...does make a nice stack.
Rodney R hits it right for us too as 2 string bales have a chance to ventilate better and that can be critical.
16x18 is just so novel here in the midwest, but it looks useful even without blockstacking.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

I stack both the 14X18 and 16X18. I like the 16X18 better because they are fast to stack less of them in the field and can still make a nice 80 pound bale. 80 pounds in a small bale is about the most efficient for us to move, heavier and it takes a lot more effort (sweat and muscle), lighter and we just have to move so many more to get a ton. With two of us we can have 5 ton on a trailer in 17min... Every 5 pounds is a bale and a half difference per ton. Over hundreds of tons this adds up....

Yes it is a 580! I really like it and would recommend it to anyone for a small bailer, It can really pump them out and seems to be very reliable. Plus the bails just look nice.


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

Bale Bandits take about 20 minutes to load a flat bed with skidloader and pallet forks. About the same to unload. Will load in vans too although I never have. Truckers love em.


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## ButchAutomatic (Jun 4, 2008)

I made a stage kinda like r mac and i push 18 bale tiers in the vans also push 17 bale tier ties in with no problems. will try to put up some photos


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