# JD disc mower conditioner models



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

For the past two years I have been saying that I'm going to upgrade to a disc mower conditioner from the sickle haybine I have currently. Unfortunately I haven't had any luck selling the haybine. Hopefully it will sell but I don't want to wait and be caught at the start of another hay season having to use it so I'm starting to look into buying a used disc moco that I can run for a year or two until I can afford to upgrade to something nicer. Since what I can afford will probably be well used I'm going to go with a Deere since they have the best parts support here.

I know some of the early JD mocos used a Kuhn cutter bar as did NH. What models were the first to use the Deere designed cutter bar with the shear hubs that are in the new machines today? Any model recommendations of what models to look at would be great. I would greatly prefer a center pivot model but at the right price would not be opposed to a side pull.

Hayden


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Hayden,

See if this helps.

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=441067&posts=5&highlight=Deere%20moco%20france%20&highlightmode=1#M3555264

I think the 600 and 800 series have been out several years and from what I've seen (in my own search), 500 and 700 series pretty much identical, which squares with the post link. I'm not sure the Kuhn cutterbar cross over/change to JD design/mfg and models.

Good luck,
Bill


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## purdue_boilermaker (Sep 20, 2011)

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Kuhn cutterbar days go back to the 1327 and 1460 and prior models?

As far as models with shear hubs, I thought the 915/925/935 models started having them. I know that the 500/700 series have them, and of course the current 600/800 series have them.


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## wvfarmboy54 (Feb 7, 2018)

910 and 920 were first to use jd cutter bar then 915, 916 925 and up hard to run but great machines


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

wvfarmboy54 said:


> 910 and 920 were first to use jd cutter bar then 915, 916 925 and up hard to run but great machines


 Good to know....I knew the previous 500/700 series had the JD cutter bar but wasn't sure about the earlier models that started with a 9. Those are the models that probably are in my price range. When you say hard to run I'm assuming you mean take a lot of power?


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

The early 9 were common here. 4 farms had one and you knew where each one was mowing from the sound they make. They had dry gears for the conditioner. everybody ran the crap out of them, good machines. Not sure on the power side, all were 9' machines being ran with under 100 hp.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

As stated 910 920 930 were the first models to use the Deere cutterbar. Exposed conditioner drive gears and cutterbar sections prone to cracking were there biggest issues. They can be had for cheap but I would stay away unless I found a really nice one for the right money.

915 925 935 are the same except for higher tooth count cutterbar gears which i assume was done for strength. Midway through production the cutterbar drive gearbox was changed as well. These fail occasionally and are pricey.

916 926 936 were the first models with the current Deere cutterbar which uses a much better housing and has pretty much eliminated the cracking issues. These still run the dry gear conditioning system which is a stupid design.

945 and 955 are the center pivot big brothers of the 9X5 series and have the older housings but the conditioning system is gearbox and belt driven. Gearboxes on these models, except for the cutterbar, cause very few problems. Most have swivel hitches.

946 and 956 are same as 945,955 except they have the newer cutterbar with the better housings. These are good machines and still in production.

525 530 535 were the redesigned replacement for 916 926 936. Same cutterbar but completely redesigned, and much improved, frame and conditioner drive system. Eliminated those despicable dry run gears. Drivelines are a bit overdone and prone to wear. 625 630 635 are basically the same machines and the current models. My understanding is that they are built in the States versus the 525 530 535 being built in Europe??

730 and 735 were Deeres first smaller center pivot machines. 830 and 835 are their replacement and the current models. Good machines. Get one with a swivel hitch.

Deere rubber rollers are weak and prone to breaking. Also susceptible to delamination.

Deere cutterbars will occasionally lose a bearing without warning and wipe out half the cutterbar. This is expensive to fix. Aftermarket cutterbar gears are becoming available.

Deere triple mowers and 3 point mounted mowers are Kuhn machines entirely. SP units are Deere.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

leeave96 said:


> Hayden,
> See if this helps.https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=441067&posts=5&highlight=Deere%20moco%20france%20&highlightmode=1#M3555264
> I think the 600 and 800 series have been out several years and from what I've seen (in my own search), 500 and 700 series pretty much identical, which squares with the post link. I'm not sure the Kuhn cutterbar cross over/change to JD design/mfg and models.
> Good luck,
> Bill


Just checked out the link, sorry for the redundancy.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

discbinedr said:


> As stated 910 920 930 were the first models to use the Deere cutterbar. Exposed conditioner drive gears and cutterbar sections prone to cracking were there biggest issues. They can be had for cheap but I would stay away unless I found a really nice one for the right money.
> 
> 915 925 935 are the same except for higher tooth count cutterbar gears which i assume was done for strength. Midway through production the cutterbar drive gearbox was changed as well. These fail occasionally and are pricey.
> 
> ...


Very good historical synopsis and maintenance information.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> As stated 910 920 930 were the first models to use the Deere cutterbar. Exposed conditioner drive gears and cutterbar sections prone to cracking were there biggest issues. They can be had for cheap but I would stay away unless I found a really nice one for the right money.
> 915 925 935 are the same except for higher tooth count cutterbar gears which i assume was done for strength. Midway through production the cutterbar drive gearbox was changed as well. These fail occasionally and are pricey.
> 916 926 936 were the first models with the current Deere cutterbar which uses a much better housing and has pretty much eliminated the cracking issues. These still run the dry gear conditioning system which is a stupid design.
> 945 and 955 are the center pivot big brothers of the 9X5 series and have the older housings but the conditioning system is gearbox and belt driven. Gearboxes on these models, except for the cutterbar, cause very few problems. Most have swivel hitches.
> ...


 Excellent info.....exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

It sounds like the 9xx model machines had some issues that have been since improved......guess all brands are pretty much that way as disc mower conditioners have progressed. But in your opinion would you say the Deere machines of that age are just as good or better than the other brands for durability and cut quality?

Hayden


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Had a 1460 for 16 years and only ever had one conditioner bearing fail. Would have done close to 16 000 acres in that time with some very heavy balansa clover crops. Only ever run it on a 100 hp tractor. Don't think the 946 that replaced it will last that long...


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> Excellent info.....exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
> It sounds like the 9xx model machines had some issues that have been since improved......guess all brands are pretty much that way as disc mower conditioners have progressed. But in your opinion would you say the Deere machines of that age are just as good or better than the other brands for durability and cut quality?
> Hayden


If you're talking '95 - '00 or so the Deere would be pretty low on my list unless maybe if it was a 1460, not sure when they were discontinued. Like hay diddle says, they were good machines. If we're using a 920 for comparison I would choose a NH, CIH, Hesston or Kuhn first, unless of course if it was a Kuhn 4000 lol.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

Go ahead and buy a new Moco and use Deere financing. Your payments will be less a year than what a good used one will cost. I bought a 630 and payment is $5000 a year. A used Moco is just that used and maybe abused.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

broadriverhay said:


> Go ahead and buy a new Moco and use Deere financing. Your payments will be less a year than what a good used one will cost. I bought a 630 and payment is $5000 a year. A used Moco is just that used and maybe abused.


 I'm not much of one for equipment payments in most cases. I prefer to buy what I can afford at the time or at least know I can pay off in the very near future. If this year would be another year like 2017 I couldn't afford to make the 5k payment.

So for the time being it looks like my best bet is to buy a used moco that I can run for a year or two and then be able to resell later on without taking a huge hit when I can afford to upgrade after I sell/trade the haybine and another piece of equipment. Just figured I would go ahead and start looking for a used moco in case I'm not able to sell/trade the haybine and other equipment before hay season. Don't want to be caught having to run the haybine another year.

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> If you're talking '95 - '00 or so the Deere would be pretty low on my list unless maybe if it was a 1460, not sure when they were discontinued. Like hay diddle says, they were good machines. If we're using a 920 for comparison I would choose a NH, CIH, Hesston or Kuhn first, unless of course if it was a Kuhn 4000 lol.


 Ok, after taking a quick glance on tractor house it looks like the machines prior to the 500/700 series would be what is in my price range.

Parts support is terrible here for Kuhn so I don't want to go that route for sure. From what I have seen the JD machines cut cleaner than NH so that is why I was leaning towards Deere......also Deere parts support is better than NH. Hesston would have been my next choice after Deere strictly from a parts support standpoint.

Could you give me a run down on the Hesston models like you did the Deere in case I want to look into those instead? Aren't the CIH machines of that vintage actually a Hesston?

Hayden


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Hesston 1050 1060 was rebranded several ways and built by Zweeger I think. Obsolete and difficult to work on. Stay away.

Hesston 1320= CIH 8309 9'cut.
Hesston 1340= CIH 8312. 12'
Hesston 1360= CIH 8315. 15'
Generally very good machines.1340 1360 are available with swivel hitch. Continuous gearbed cutterbar. Idler gear hubs tend to work loose and wear the housing is the worst thing about these cutterbars. Then you have an oil leak plus the gears are no longer aligned correctly. If you look at one of these check for seepage on the bottom of the cutterbar around the idler hubs. No proper shear protection but the gears seem to take a lot of abuse. New cutterbar can be had for under $6k on the 12ft versus $9k+ for comparable JD & NH. Hesston mostly came with rubber on steel conditioning. CaseIH version usually has rubber TiCor susceptible to breaking.

Next series the 9' version was discontinued. 
Hesston 1345= CIH DC512 ??? I'm not certain this model exists.
Agco 3312 Challenger PTD12 and New Idea 5512 are other versions. 
Hesston 1365= CIH DC515, Agco 3315, NI 5515 and Challenger PTD15
Basically same machines except for a lifter roll being added in front of the other rollers. I believe this was to aid in feeding light crop. This lifter roll is built too light, bends and causes vibration and lifter roll bearing failure. I will be building a heavier roll to address this. Ridgid sheet metal was added to the outsides instead of flip up doors with skirting. The 15 ft 1365 also has a full width cutterbar instead of driving the outer drums externally like a 1360/8315. The 15ft cutterbar goes for about $10,000.Steel on steel rollers are more common on the later models.

The swivel hitches are built much better on the Deeres.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> Hesston 1050 1060 was rebranded several ways and built by Zweeger I think. Obsolete and difficult to work on. Stay away.
> Hesston 1320= CIH 8309 9'cut.
> Hesston 1340= CIH 8312. 12'
> Hesston 1360= CIH 8315. 15'
> ...


 Great info.....thanks again!

Im assuming the next series of Hesston built mower conditioners is when they became branded as MF? It appears that would be the 1372 12' and 1375 15' and still no 9' model? Guessing after that it brings us up to the present machines which there is a 9' model. That is kind of odd they didn't offer a 9' model for a number of years.....wonder why? I know that these machines are most likely above my price range but I just wanted to get an idea of the complete line of Hesston disc mower conditioners up to the present series like I did on the Deeres.

It sounds like the Hesstons had a few issues and weak points also. Besides the higher cost if a person had to replace a whole cutter bar what makes you prefer the Hesston machines over the older Deeres? How do they compare in the quality of the cut?

Hayden


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

The 9ft model would be the New Idea 5209. CaseIH version was the 3309 and I think there is an Agco and/or Agco Allis badged model too. It’s present form is a MF 1359. Good machines IMHO.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

[quote name="FarmerCline" post="857201" timestamp="1519195275"]Great info.....thanks again! 
Im assuming the next series of Hesston built mower conditioners is when they became branded as MF? It appears that would be the 1372 12' and 1375 15' and still no 9' model? Guessing after that it brings us up to the present machines which there is a 9' model. That is kind of odd they didn't offer a 9' model for a number of years.....wonder why?

Yes, next series of Hesston was MF 1359 1363 1372 1375. I'm a bit fuzzy as what was when i.e. Agco had a 3309 9' to go with the 3312 & 3315 that was same as Massey 1359. These are also labeled Hesston and are likely considered the successor to the 1320. There may not even have been a gap where there was no 9' available.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

It sounds like the Hesstons had a few issues and weak points also. Besides the higher cost if a person had to replace a whole cutter bar what makes you prefer the Hesston machines over the older Deeres? How do they compare in the quality of the cut? 
Hayden[/quote]

Deere is unsurpassed in cut quality but Hesston isn't far behind.

IMO Hesstons cutterbar is a bit more durable. Hesston is a bit lighter, the Deeres are real beasts. If you look at a Deere 946/956 roller machine check the lower roll mount weldment for cracks or welds.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

discbinedr said:


> Deere is unsurpassed in cut quality but Hesston isn't far behind.
> 
> IMO Hesstons cutterbar is a bit more durable. Hesston is a bit lighter, the Deeres are real beasts. If you look at a Deere 946/956 roller machine check the lower roll mount weldment for cracks or welds.


Thank you for your forthrightness Doc.....and it is even more eye-opening all things considered. A honest unbiased opinion from someone who is gainfully employed in the industry is a blessing to many here on haytalk. I am grateful for your integrity.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> The 9ft model would be the New Idea 5209. CaseIH version was the 3309 and I think there is an Agco and/or Agco Allis badged model too. It's present form is a MF 1359. Good machines IMHO.





discbinedr said:


> Yes, next series of Hesston was MF 1359 1363 1372 1375. I'm a bit fuzzy as what was when i.e. Agco had a 3309 9' to go with the 3312 & 3315 that was same as Massey 1359. These are also labeled Hesston and are likely considered the successor to the 1320. There may not even have been a gap where there was no 9' available.


Thanks guys. I forgot about the 9' New Idea designed machine. I guess that is why there wasn't a Hesston designed 9' machine for a number of years since Agco was already offering a 9' machine. Interesting though that now in the current models they have both the New Idea(1359) and Hesston(1363) in 9 footers.

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Discbinedr, like Mike said thanks for the unbiased opinions.....much appreciated. Since we are on the subject let me ask you another question just in case I happen to be able to spend a little more money. If I were able to move up to a 500/700 or 600/800 series Deere would you still prefer the Hesston machines in your opinion?

Also what about avalibility of high stubble skid shoes? It is very important that I leave a stubble of about 5" on my cool season grasses to help with summer die off issues I have had. So whatever machine I end up buying needs to be able to have high stubble shoes available if not already on it.

Hayden


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Extension plates are available for the Deeres above.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

With skid shoes, the JD 600 series and I assume the 800,500 and 700 series moco's cut high as 6 inches I am pretty certain.

I've posted this link before, but a review of the New Idea 5209. I'm to understand the later red painted machines, including the present MF colored models have short segmented hex shafts for easier disassembly/reassembly. They do not have any shear hubs. Totally gear driven machines. Not sure what the changeover date and which rollers (ticor probably) but when you lift the machine, the rollers separate, so if you have a plug... That feature is no longer available in the MF with steel on steel rollers.

http://pami.ca/pdfs/reports_research_updates/(4e)%20Mowers%20and%20Mower-Conditioners/620.PDF

Just curious, in as much as you are swerving back into grass hay (sounds like to me) and backing off legumes/alfalfa, for this "interm" disc mower conditioner, are you considering impellers? Might be a good time to test one out for a few years before moving on to something newer - just a thought.

If you want, PM me your price range and I'll keep an eye out up here for something.

Bill


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> With skid shoes, the JD 600 series and I assume the 800,500 and 700 series moco's cut high as 6 inches I am pretty certain.
> I've posted this link before, but a review of the New Idea 5209. I'm to understand the later red painted machines, including the present MF colored models have short segmented hex shafts for easier disassembly/reassembly. They do not have any shear hubs. Totally gear driven machines. Not sure what the changeover date and which rollers (ticor probably) but when you lift the machine, the rollers separate, so if you have a plug... That feature is no longer available in the MF with steel on steel rollers.
> http://pami.ca/pdfs/reports_research_updates/(4e)%20Mowers%20and%20Mower-Conditioners/620.PDF
> Just curious, in as much as you are swerving back into grass hay (sounds like to me) and backing off legumes/alfalfa, for this "interm" disc mower conditioner, are you considering impellers? Might be a good time to test one out for a few years before moving on to something newer - just a thought.
> ...


 Yep, I knew the 500/700 and 600/800 series Deeres had high stubble shoes. Wasn't sure if the older 9xx model Deeres or older Hesston machines had high stubble shoes though......most likely those will be the machines I can afford.

Probably going to stick with a roller machine. Really would love to try a set of B&D rollers but hard to justify that on a machine that I might not keep but a year or two. I am trying to grow more grass hay but I still have alot of alfalfa left this year. Generally don't have trouble drying grass so I need whatever will dry the alfalfa best as possible. Also planning on planting more lespedeza this year but that stuff dries pretty quick.

Hayden


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Actually the Deere models just have a small piece of plate steel that is added to give the extra height. Not real expensive.....much better than having to buy taller "shoes" which is the case with some of the other manufacturers. The extensions just bolt onto the existing height brackets for a total mowing height of 6.5" with the exception of one other model that is 6.8" I believe. Once you add the extensions however, you lose some of your very lowest cutting abilities.

Regards, Mike


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

[quote name="FarmerCline" post="857473" timestamp="1519259182"]Discbinedr, like Mike said thanks for the unbiased opinions.....much appreciated. Since we are on the subject let me ask you another question just in case I happen to be able to spend a little more money. If I were able to move up to a 500/700 or 600/800 series Deere would you still prefer the Hesston machines in your opinion?

I would be looking for the best value on either one. That would be the deciding factor.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Also what about avalibility of high stubble skid shoes? It is very important that I leave a stubble of about 5" on my cool season grasses to help with summer die off issues I have had. So whatever machine I end up buying needs to be able to have high stubble shoes available if not already on it. 
Hayden[/quote]

I was not aware of the extensions for Deere Mike is talking about. They do have adjustable shoes with a significant range as standard equipment.

Hesston 1320 1340 have optional high stubble shoes, I'm assuming the later models do as well......

If you're drying alfalfa in difficult conditions you need a Deere with tri lobe rolls.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> Also what about avalibility of high stubble skid shoes? It is very important that I leave a stubble of about 5" on my cool season grasses to help with summer die off issues I have had. So whatever machine I end up buying needs to be able to have high stubble shoes available if not already on it.
> Hayden


I was not aware of the extensions for Deere Mike is talking about. They do have adjustable shoes with a significant range as standard equipment. 
Hesston 1320 1340 have optional high stubble shoes, I'm assuming the later models do as well......
If you're drying alfalfa in difficult conditions you need a Deere with tri lobe rolls.[/quote]

I grow a wide variety of hay including various grasses, oat hay, and alfalfa. The alfalfa is by far the most difficult to get dry. I have heard the Deere tri lobe rolls work really well in alfalfa but have problems feeding in grass hay. Have you heard this? Do you have any experience with the B&D rolls?

Hayden


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayden, here is some info that Deere has on their site about the various moco models which includes the cutting heights with and without extensions. It was the large 900 series that has a little more height and it is fully adjustable within the range without the need for the extensions unlike the other models.

Regards, Mike

https://www.deere.com/en/hay-forage/mowing/mower-conditioners/

You also can click the model numbers on the above link to find out in-depth information.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

discbinedr said:


> Also what about avalibility of high stubble skid shoes? It is very important that I leave a stubble of about 5" on my cool season grasses to help with summer die off issues I have had. So whatever machine I end up buying needs to be able to have high stubble shoes available if not already on it.
> Hayden


I was not aware of the extensions for Deere Mike is talking about. They do have adjustable shoes with a significant range as standard equipment.

Hesston 1320 1340 have optional high stubble shoes, I'm assuming the later models do as well......

If you're drying alfalfa in difficult conditions you need a Deere with tri lobe rolls.

[/QUOTE]



FarmerCline said:


> Yep, I knew the 500/700 and 600/800 series Deeres had high stubble shoes. Wasn't sure if the older 9xx model Deeres or older Hesston machines had high stubble shoes though......most likely those will be the machines I can afford.
> 
> Probably going to stick with a roller machine. Really would love to try a set of B&D rollers but hard to justify that on a machine that I might not keep but a year or two. I am trying to grow more grass hay but I still have alot of alfalfa left this year. Generally don't have trouble drying grass so I need whatever will dry the alfalfa best as possible. Also planning on planting more lespedeza this year but that stuff dries pretty quick.
> 
> Hayden


Here are what the extensions look like for the JD.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

IH 1586 said:


> Here are what the extensions look like for the JD.


So, did you have the need for a lower cut range Dana?


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Vol said:


> So, did you have the need for a lower cut range Dana?


??? You asking me?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

IH 1586 said:


> ??? You asking me?


A momentary lapse in senility Chris....you will have to pardon me and my apologies to Dana also. I have been trying to come down with some kind of virus since Wednesday and my head is kind of echoing. How is that for excuses? 

Were the extensions preventing you from cutting as low as you needed Chris? Alfalfa?

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Actually the Deere models just have a small piece of plate steel that is added to give the extra height. Not real expensive.....much better than having to buy taller "shoes" which is the case with some of the other manufacturers. The extensions just bolt onto the existing height brackets for a total mowing height of 6.5" with the exception of one other model that is 6.8" I believe. Once you add the extensions however, you lose some of your very lowest cutting abilities.
> 
> Regards, Mike





Vol said:


> Hayden, here is some info that Deere has on their site about the various moco models which includes the cutting heights with and without extensions. It was the large 900 series that has a little more height and it is fully adjustable within the range without the need for the extensions unlike the other models.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> ...


 If I'm understanding this correct the extensions that IH1586 posted a picture of bolt onto the existing bracket for added height but you still use the same adjustable skid shoes that are already on the machine so the cutting height is still adjustable independently of the tilt of the cutter bar?

According to that link to with the extensions the lowest cutting height is still less than 3" which is plenty low enough for me when cutting alfalfa but will give me enough height when cutting grasses. Hopefully the older model Deeres can use those extensions also.

Hayden


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Vol said:


> A momentary lapse in senility Chris....you will have to pardon me and my apologies to Dana also. I have been trying to come down with some kind of virus since Wednesday and my head is kind of echoing. How is that for excuses?
> 
> Were the extensions preventing you from cutting as low as you needed Chris? Alfalfa?
> 
> Regards, Mike


The 1360's that I run with the 630 max out at 3" and could not get the 630 that low with the extensions. When the 1360 is gone will use a 4" height. They will be going back on for the sorgum-sudan plot I'm putting in this summer. Need a 6"height for that.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> If I'm understanding this correct the extensions that IH1586 posted a picture of bolt onto the existing bracket for added height but you still use the same adjustable skid shoes that are already on the machine so the cutting height is still adjustable independently of the tilt of the cutter bar?


That is correct.


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