# In-Line bailers - less stress on tractor?



## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

While getting coffee this morning at the local dinner I got to talk to a couple of hay folks - they had just moved 500 small square bales for a horse customer (still had hay on their jackets  )

They asked what I did and I mentioned being a retired engineer and trying to get into the hay business on a very small scale in my subdivision. They had a good laugh at first. When I mentioned what I was trying to do with my smaller equipment, that peaked their interest. I mentioned my compact tractor, Bobcat CT 235 3500# weight, the IH 1300 9ft sickle mower I have, the rakes I was considering and the balers I was looking at, JD24T or equal.

They suggested I had chosen a sweet sickle mower (had memories of using one) and recommended a small rotary rake over the side deliver rakes such as the JD350. They liked the Kuhn GA 300 model or the next one up, 3102?, with the removable arms, and as for balers they threw me a big curve.

They highly suggested for my HP and weight tractor to look into an inline baler such as the CIH 8520, the MF/Hesston 1835 or an older Hesston 4550. They indicated that MY PTO hp of 27 should handle them if I went slow and did not have heavy windrows. They use the much bigger Hesston inline with the Kuhn staking equipment - sorry forget the details but I think they said accumulator.

*The biggest issue they said was much less stress on my tractor. I know a standard baler such as the JD 24 T will rock sideways and forward due to the side sitting of the unit, However they mentioned that the inline does not have that issue do to the configuration. Is this true, or were they pulling my leg?*

Anyway I am willing to spend a little extra if this type of unit if it would work for me better and less stress on my tractor. So will the following actually work? Are there other models to consider?

Challenger SB 34

MF/Hesston 1835

Older CIH 8520

Older Hesston 4550

Thanks again - trying to learn before I spend


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

YODA said:


> While getting coffee this morning at the local dinner I got to talk to a couple of hay folks - they had just moved 500 small square bales for a horse customer (still had hay on their jackets  )
> They asked what I did and I mentioned being a retired engineer and trying to get into the hay business on a very small scale in my subdivision. They had a good laugh at first. When I mentioned what I was trying to do with my smaller equipment, that peaked their interest. I mentioned my compact tractor, Bobcat CT 235 3500# weight, the IH 1300 9ft sickle mower I have, the rakes I was considering and the balers I was looking at, JD24T or equal.
> 
> They suggested I had chosen a sweet sickle mower (had memories of using one) and recommended a small rotary rake over the side deliver rakes such as the JD350. They liked the Kuhn GA 300 model or the next one up, 3102?, with the removable arms, and as for balers they threw me a big curve.
> ...


A little extra compared to a 24T? More like thousands and thousands. I think the consensus on this forum has been that the baler is going to be potentially too much for your pto clutch, not an issue with a baler pushing you sideways. Maybe some inline guys here will agree with your coffee crowd.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I own a 1837 and I don't think it's any less stressful than say my old NH.....could be wrong but I don't think so.....it definitely doesn't rock like the NH, which is good, the NH would put you to sleep.....but I don't see it putting any more stress on the tractor....the flywheel on the NH seemed a bit larger, perhaps that may make a diff....but I think we're splitting hairs....you need a bit more horsepower and maybe a diff tranny.....

And a 24t can be had for 2,500 or so....prolly not gonna find a inline of any kind for that....btw all of those inlines mentioned above are the same breed of dog, just a different cut of hair.....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

In all honesty rather than spending the money on a newer inline baler you would be better off putting that cash towards an older tractor that is better suited to handling a square baler....something along the lines of a MF 135 will handle an older square baler and not break the bank either. As far as balers go a JD 24t should be fine or a NH 268 and 273 seem to be popular models also and a 35 to 40 hp tractor should handle them just fine.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks folks - Auctions are starting to pop up and I am watching the sales bills to save some driving time. One so far has an Enrossi rr320-9 rake in it, but I have heard bad things about them (weak steel and welds). Other than that the bailers are mostly round or big bales.

As for new iron I need to get off the ground first. If I can show the boss unit I can make an inital go of it with the tractor I have, she might let me spend the earnings. Right know she knows I need to spend some to start, and is hoping I can do it on the cheap side, but I know going cheap can cost $$$$. So trying to strike a balance. She might be willing to go along with a bit more on the bailer if I can show it will last longer or do a better job.

Thanks


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I Agee with the above posts, splitting hair is a good way to put it. As well having two tractors for making hay makes life much easer. Your Bobcat will make a nice raking tractor. A rotory rake might cost a bit more, but make a nicer windrow especially for an older baler.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

FarmerCline right in finding little bigger tractor, when I was small Dad pulled baler with a MF 35 and MF 135 (MF 10 and NH 273) and I did as a teenager. Also you would have less money in a used MF 135, Ford 3000, JD 830, IH 424, etc. plus the JD 24T than you would in used inline baler. Plus you would have the extra tractor as a rake tractor or as a backup.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

What about an old self powered baler? Plenty of them still kicking around here. One of my neighbors who is still pretty sure its the 1950s uses a 24t with a motor and an Deere 830. It takes him 4 people to bale but it does lower the stress on a tractor by a long shot. By the way, its his wife on the tractor seat, a kid on the wagon stacking and a person walking next to each knotter.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Only found one self powered baler in the area - wire type in very poor shape, but I keep looking. Thanks for the thoughts


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> Only found one self powered baler in the area - wire type in very poor shape, but I keep looking. Thanks for the thoughts


I started out in a similar manner to the way you started, but it was a 70hp tractor trying to make 4x5 round bales. It would pull the baler, but it threw me around a lot. I bought a bigger tractor and its a night/day difference.
You really should consider a bigger tractor, maybe an older one to make the trade for your smaller one an even swap. That'll keep your ol lady happy and then you can pull the baler you want. OR take some of the money you'll have to spend and get yourself a real old tractor that's bigger. Doesn't need a loader or a 3 pt, just a drawbar and a PTO. 
It's really tough to make hay with only one tractor. I did it for 2 years and saw the writing on the wall after my first year.


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## Thumbtack (Jun 18, 2012)

The nice thing about an in-line baler is they are alot easier to get around in small fields. That being said it is hard to justify the 10K it would cost when you are first getting started. Work at getting the equipment you need. then work at upgrading. I have a Enrossi and if you are careful and don't abuse them they hold up pretty well. The difference in cost is vs. a Kuhn is quite substanial. just my thoughts. I only have about 6 acres and it is really hard to justify big expenses.


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## dwarner (Aug 28, 2012)

YODA- '13 was my first year with an inline cih 8530 and it does seem to be smoother than the 269NH it replaced, however we have never had less than 70hp or so in front of either so that doesn't help you much. As far as cost goes, I am sure you can find an old T deere for less than an inline, but I paid less than 5k for the 8530, however I did end up doing some work to it. I am getting pretty familiar with the insides of that baler after one year. Maybe if you find a lower priced inline you could try it, might work ok if you take it easy, might have to rent a bigger tractor for a few hours to get though the first year. 40+ year old 60hp tractors won't break the bank if you are a good shopper.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks folks. I think I am going to try and find one after the discusion here. Last year I was told one sold for around 4K at a local acution (when I say local, within 100 miles of me)

With the gates I need to go through I need something narrow. Also my current hayer indicated I should be willing to invest about $1500 overall to get a typical auction unit up and running.

I have also stirred up the curisoity of a local agg dealer (with national connections). Salesman feels this could be a new area of sales if I can make one of his small units work. His shop man also indicated by changing one drive gear the unit would work better at my HP. Would slow the stroke timing down a bit, but for my speed should be perfect. Unfortunately it means investing in a near new unit. Still have a few month to look, so taking my time in looking.

Thanks again for the great advice. Keith


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## dwarner (Aug 28, 2012)

Good luck! I love how compact they are physically, takes less shed space and less road space than the side pickup. One thing to look for(on mine anyway) was wear on the track bars that the plunger runs on as well as make sure the cutting edge and ledger plates are not wore/ dull or gapped wrong. Somebody took mine out and sharpened both sides, think of a tin snips but each half is sharpened on both sides instead of one. Won't cut well at all, supposed to be one side each so when they meet it is a scissor action. Ended up just getting several new pieces as well as having some welded up.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Got a strange email and even a phone call from AGCO. Instead of the usual talk to your dealer this gentleman from tech support took an interest in my questions.

Several week ago I found an email address for AGCO other than the usual sales one. I had asked for specific information if my tractor could operate one of these balers and if they had any programs for first time buyers or ESB programs - Help and support to get up and running. My local small business administration suggested I ask.

He was going to check for me (he thought there were programs, but was not sure) and is even going to find a contact in engineering to answer my questions. I asked about their testing to arrive at the 30 or 35 HP recommendations. I also had asked about re-gearing older models.

He seemed to really want to help and was also checking on older equipment that they had made in the past too, like the old Hesston line and others.

He was surprised to learn in his own research that their literature listed 2 different HP ratings (30&35) for the 1835.

So hopefully in short order I will know the final answers and possibly be talking to one of their engineers at Hesston - where they are all made.

The reason I am still looking into this is I got an email from a MF dealer in a nearby state showing a Mehendra with only 22 HP at the PTO running one fairly well (Same conditions I have) . My closest dealer is 75 miles away over 3 mountain passes, or 4 hours away the other direction.

He too was curious about a line of balers, and other hay equipment for Compact Tractors as that market is becoming popular with a lot of folks.

More later - Keith


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Very interesting, YODA. No matter what they can tell you about the balers (which will be a great service to you), they don't have an engineer on staff who designed your pto clutch and that's still going to be the weakest link in your proposed operation.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

That I did get an answer from Bobcat, and verified by my dealer mechanic. I am good there. Should not have an issue.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Dear Yoda,

I'm not sure how to say this but will try. I can hook up a baler to to my 56 ford 600 and bale hay if I needed to. I've baled many an acre with a 50 horse tractor. I feel most comfortable and safe on a 75 horse + tractor. Fact is yes you can do it, fact also is that a tractor that is under rated or on the line, AND (all caps). A tractor that doesn't have the weight, will have a much shorter life. Not to mention you will sway back and forth after you get off the tractor like having sea legs getting off a boat. 
I'm not trying to be mean, just saying.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Dear Yoda,
> 
> I'm not sure how to say this but will try. I can hook up a baler to to my 56 ford 600 and bale hay if I needed to. I've baled many an acre with a 50 horse tractor. I feel most comfortable and safe on a 75 horse + tractor. Fact is yes you can do it, fact also is that a tractor that is under rated or on the line, AND (all caps). A tractor that doesn't have the weight, will have a much shorter life. Not to mention you will sway back and forth after you get off the tractor like having sea legs getting off a boat.
> I'm not trying to be mean, just saying.


 *DSLinc1017*

I actually understand and agree. I appreciate your frankness. I will be at the limits of my tractor and will feel it work. being a retired engineer I am trying to find out the details of what to expect and what might happen. I am just starting out and once going I am sure I will upgrade to a second tractor. I just need to make a go of it for the first year. I know I will need to go easy, just tying to find something that will put the least stress on the unit. In talking to many of the neighbors that hay, they say invest in a good baler if I can up front. Many have said rebuilding someones junk can be a very bad idea.

What is interesting is there is no information on dynamic loading of the tractor by numerous baler manufacturers. They depend on the balers overriding clutch to prevent any drive line stress. Only MF so far is willing to find out that information for me, then I can get with Bobcat/Kioiti dealers (CK35 HST is the twin of mine) and their engineering staff and verify the drive line information. So far what I know, is many of the drive line components are used in the next size up units 40-45HP with 35-40 at PTO. The frame is heaver, but same internals.

We will see what happens - still have time to look and learn.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Yoda,
I understand your quest, your on the right track to get a good working baler! Perhaps why you and the manufactures can't quantify exacts; is because hay doesn't come into the baler as a constant. Mother Nature will always trough you a curve ball, way to many variables.
I wish you luck,
Michael.


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## mshayfarm (Jul 17, 2011)

*The MF 1835 will give a 50hp tractor all it wants in good hay. The IH585 will run hot when temps get up into the upper 90's.*


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

mshayfarm

Thanks for the information. If I may ask, what kind of windrow are you running. Are you doubling up. That's one point my resources are telling me is that no matter what baler I get, even a 24T, I will need to rake a consistent windrow - probably more to the light side, and for my tractor, for me to be prepared to slow down.

Again - thanks for the frank discussion. - Keith


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## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

stumbled across this ad in a paper or at least one similar to it.

http://www.agriquip.com/star/thb.html

your tractor should run this no problem.....if you could find a used one.

Alex


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## mshayfarm (Jul 17, 2011)

We run a 8 wheel v-rake and HS360 depending on how thick hay is. On average with the v-rake L2 with 585, M7040 and IH886. With HS 360 we usally bump a gear or 2 depending on grass. There is no way I would go back to a offset square baler, I've way to comfortable with the Hesston. Ran out of string on day and baled 3 windrows before I turned around. LOL


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Well a Hasston 4570 poped up in a nerby town. been snowing too much to get over to look at it. From the dealer photos it appears to be in good shape. One of the knotters has a few new parts. It came out of Nebraska. They are asking close to 10K which I think is high. I now have an older gentelman helping me find a good unit. he has been repairing them all of his life. he is retired now, but his son is taking over. He also has a 75 HP tractor he is willing to loan me (hay barter) should I need it.

I also found a neighbor selling a JD 2010 gas unit along with all the equipment (MF baler, NH grownd driven Rake, plow, and old sickle mower). he is asking $6500 for everything. I looked up the 2010, but not sure of the specifications on the gas unit. Again with the snow I havent got over to see the equipment.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/0/5/58-john-deere-2010.html


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks - about 11Hp more than what I have now. I found an article too that indicated units made in 63 and later have a stronger drive line. Now I am curious as to the baler he has.

Thanks for the help

On edit, here is the equipment link:

http://westslope.craigslist.org/grd/4315950481.html


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

There's now way I'd want to make hay with a JD 2010/2020!

When I see discussions about tractor size needed for a small square baler the conversation revolves solely around HP needs and nothing about weight of the tractor. Sure you can get by with a 35 HP tractor to pull a baler, but that sized tractor doesn't have enough weight to deal with the constant motion from the baler and doesn't have the stopping power, especially when you have a heavy load of bales behind the baler.

We pull our small square baler with an IH 756, which dyno's at 82 HP and scales over 9,000 lb.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks - I am trying to get information on the baler he has, but so far he only wants to deal as a package. Also looking at the sickle mower for parts for my IH 1300 I am rebuilding.


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