# Chicken litter



## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

I spoke with a man on Saturday who sells chicken litter for fertilizer and I wanted to get your opinions on it. He told me that it will normally test out to 50-50-50 as far as NPK goes and he gets $35.00 a ton with a 25 ton minimum delivery. Anyone ever used this for fertilizer? Pro/Cons, Likes or Dislikes? The price is definitely cheaper than granular fertilizer however they deliver in a dump trailer so you then have to load it and provide your own spreader which will definitely take much more time. These prices are still higher than what I was quoted on the liquid fertilizer. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help.

Kyle


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

I love it..makes the grass jump, way cheaper than granular and has a residual value also! The neighbors around the field hate it when the wind blows in their direction until you get a good rain to soak it in...lol Check your local regs, some require the pile site to be a certain distance from the property line. Down here they have us shut down on litter, somebody got a bad load out of Alabama with some kind of aviarine disease in it.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

That stuff is like jet fuel for corn too, it is very hard on any metal if not cleaned off, worse than salt, and you can't seem to ever get the smell out of your loader but it has the nutrients. And it does have a strong risidual effect, and I don't know if this is your thing or not, but I like the idea of using a natural fertilizer instead of the commercial granular stuff we normally rely on if possible. I hate to give my money to an outfit that makes huge margins off of my back and will gouge at my proffits at any possible opprotunity.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

In our area we have a few guys using chicken litter and depending on the ground, not all of the crops needs can be met with it. Calcium buildup is the problem here. Especially a problem with corn on corn rotations. Can't say how it works on hay ground as I know of no one that used it on hay.


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## hay king (Feb 6, 2011)

All I use is chicken litter. Broiler is better than layer for nitro content but layer has the eggs that got broken and cracked so it is better for calcium content. Try to put 10 yards to the acre. chicken litter last a lot longer than chem as it keeps going in to the soil year after year. I pay by the yard about $250 for 100 yards so $2.50 per yard so it costs me $25 per acre but man does it work. try to do it once a year in the spring and you will notice a huge growth in production

p.s when your done spreading wash every thing off or your spreader and tractor will turn to rust

chicken shit smell like money

you pay to buy it

you pay to spread it

then it pay you back with more better bales


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Hayking,

Ok so I may sound a little ignorant here but how does a "yard" equate to a "ton"? The guy I talked to recommended 2 ton per acre which would be $60.00 a acre which is much higher than the price you quoted of $25.00 a acre. Is chicken litter that much cheaper in Canada or is there a difference in the application rates? Thanks for your help.

Kyle


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## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

we would love to get some but it is costing 60 bucks delivered its still cheaper than commercial if you consider everything you get with it it just depends if you need the extra p and k or not and it does a better job than commercial


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Word of Caution guys. I had an Amish client spread turkey litter on a hayfield last spring. Did not get enough rain to fully incorporate, mowed with disc bine, raked with wheel rake and litter had some decomposing turkey parts in it. Long story short, hay ended up with BOTULISM in it and Amishmen ended up with TEN DEAD HORSES. Just be careful.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Haybaler, Don't know about turkey litter, but the chicken litter around here is just about fully decomposed. It sells for $25 a ton if you can get it. You can rub that shit on a rock and grow grass. Mike


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Turkey litter here is fully decomped too, I think this was just a rare event where the farmer had composted dead birds and they were not fully decomped.


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## hay king (Feb 6, 2011)

Ton vs yard Wet layer litter weighs more than dry broiler manure It has to do with the way there housed. Broilers are on a open floor and walk on the litter packing it down and drying it out where as layers anr kept in cages and the litter falls threw into a pit under them and it stays a bit wetter and then weighs more. but because broilers are kept on a free floor they remove dead bodys where as when a layer dies they remove the body from its cage and throw it in to the pit where it is left to rot and that is one sorce of calcium in the litter. plus when there are cracked eggs that cant be sold they get dumped in to the pit as well adding more minerals. Broiler is higher in nitro because of the feed they get. The protien in there pellets is higher so they grow faster layers are fed the bare min to get them to lay one egg per day. They dont need to grow or be fat so they get cheaper food. Turkey litter is even higher in nitro than broiler because they are fed even richer food but they are also kept on a free floor. You need some rain to wash it in. Where i live in BC on the west coast we get 10 plus feet per year so rain is not a problem if you dont get much rain you can spread in the fall to help wash it in. I get it buy the yard Because that is how it is delivered the trucks have 100 yard boxes so thats how its delivered back to wet weighs more than dry just like round bales. because it weighs more doesnt mean you get more if you have any more questions let me know

Ps if you spred to much you can get nitrogen posioning but that takes years to do and if you spread in the fall it almost never seems to happens. usally its like he said about the litter getting in to the hay that can cause problems and kill animals but if it getts washed in its ok hope this helps:cool:


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I wish I both and knew and understood more about Poultry Poop

I have been reading with interest the thread on Chicken Litter.
I have/had some preconceived ideas about the material, mostly good.

In a put on and take off world and assuming the rule of thumb of 50-50-50 manure analysis is true.

If the standard recommendation is 2 tons/A holds up.

Grass hay @ 12% CP is roughly 2% N (1.92% N) or 40 lbs N/Ton. The rule of thumb is 50 lbs N & 12 lbs K, & 50 lb K2O/ ton of hay.
In theory that is enough Nitrogen & Potash for 2 tons of hay, but enough phosphate for over 8 tons of hay.

To be more or less in balance with the phosphate would suggest an additional N & K fertilizer.

Nothing is ever simple. Still one ton of poultry litter suggest 3 tons of hay or 4 tons of dry matter per acre with but supplemental fertilization is needed to prevent phosphate buildup.

What Say?


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Hay Wilson,

I was looking at my soil test and you are spot on in your analysis of how the general rule of thumb is applied to NPK application. My soil test was figured on 5 tons of hay (not realistic to achieve) and the amounts were as follows 200lbs N, 30lbs phosphate, and 181lbs of pottasium. To be honest with you I didn't really think about the 50-50-50 being so heavy on the phosphate side. What ill effects do you think this could have a crop either long or short term? While the chicken litter is cheaper than the granular fertilizer it is still more expensive the than liquid and coupling that with the ease of application and the lack of mess and smell I'm going to go with the liquid.

Kyle


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## WhiteRiver1 (Mar 23, 2011)

First time poster, First time to visit this site.....

I just want you guys to know that many of those problems are being addressed. By baling the litter we kill 99.9% of all noxious weed seed and kill 99.9% of the pathogens. Educate yourselves through my website.
White River Fertilizer Supply, the home of Baled Litter


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Wilson- your analysis matches my experience "here". My nutrient management plan limits application rates to 2 ton per acre or less per year. I have found fall application solves a lot of time management and ground moisture issues. No feathers in the bales, neighbors have their windows closed and there are no ruts in the fields.- Alfalfa/timothy/orchard stands get supplemented with straight potash in late fall-200 [email protected] and possibly a little n after first cutting. I have been spreading layer manure at least 6 years and have found this strategy fairly effective.

Whiteriver- wow, very cool. I run van trailers all over chicken/turkey country and return with a load of sailboat fuel and then pay a walking floor trailer to deliver product about 120 miles. I wish this practice would catch on. Likely some smelly plastic to deal with though.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Maybe you are cutting too often? 
Cut early June, mid July and early September should give 12% CP bermudagrass hay or 19-20% Alfalfa hay. 
You should be able to yield a ton of hay for each 5" to 7" of usable rainfall. 
Wish I could think of the TN Extension Forage Specialist. I can hear his Louisiana accent just can not pull up his name. 
It is fairly common for hay growers, Here, to bale when it is too dry and leave a third of their hay and half of their quality shattered on the ground.
As long as you rake when the humidity is above 90% and bale when the humidity is between 65% & 55% you should not lose 15% of your dry matter. (25% tops)

I am not familiar with Fowl Stuff. Now Dairy Cow composted & dry has zero offensive smell. Probably difficult to spread being almost a powder.

Lagoon manure injected appears to be a "sweet" thing.

Smirk, Pasture Chickens should not have a problem. LOGLMSO!


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

What is the price per ton of your liquid fertilizer and what is the analysis? I have been given a price of $370/ton of UAN, 32-0-0. This equates to $.58/lb of N not counting the cost of spreading. At this price, if I were to apply 120 lb of N/acre it would cost $69.60/acre just for the N.

This year I applied broiler litter at a cost of $36/ton spread. If I applied 2 tons/acre it would cost $72/acre for this broiler litter. I've sampled this litter but have not sent it off for analysis. However, numerous samples of broiler litter analyzed across the southern states averaged 60 lb of N, 58 lb of P2O5, and 40 lb of K2O per ton. If I use this average and apply the price for N in UAN, the N in the broiler litter is valued at $69.60.

The price I have been quoted for diammonium phosphate is $620/ton. DAP contains 18% N, or 360 lb of N/ton. Valuing this N at $.58/lb puts the value of N in DAP at $209/ton. $620 - $209 = $411 remaining for the value of P2O5 in DAP, or $.45/lb of P2O5. If my broiler litter contains the average P2O5, or 58 lb/ton of broiler litter, 2 tons of broiler litter applied $52.20 worth of P2O5.

Potash (0-0-60) price was quoted at $560/ton in early February. The price per pound of K2O as quoted is $.47. The average K2O in broiler litter was 40 lb/ton, or 80 lb K2O applied at 2 tons/acre for a cost of $37.60/acre based on the price of commercial potash.

As I calculate at the two ton/acre broiler litter application rate that cost $72/acre, I applied $69.60 worth of N, $52.20 worth of P2O5, and $37.60 worth of K2O, or $159.40 worth of N, P2O5, and K2O based on the cost of these same nutrients in commercial fertilizer (and the spreading cost of the CF is still not included).

Remember above, the at-the-field gate cost of 120 lb N as UAN was given as $69.60/acre. Now add the additional cost for P2O5 and K2O applied to equal the amounts applied in broiler litter and the result should come to $159.40/acre plus the cost of spreading, compared to $72/acre for the nutrients applied as broiler litter. If my math is correct, and please check it, the CF would cost $87.40 more than the broiler litter, not including the cost of spreading the CF.

In addition, the broiler litter also averaged 35 lb of calcium, 8 lb of magnesium, and 6 lb of S plus small amounts of other nutrients/ton.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Some advantages and disadvantages of broiler litter:

Advantages:
Contains other nutrients in addition to N, P, and K
Slow release of nitrogen
Contains calcium compounds that maintain soil pH (in acid soil)
Organic matter increases water and nutrient holding capacity of soil

Disadvantages:
Variable nutrient content within and between batches
P level exceeds forage needs if applied based on N required for forage production
Odor (temporarily makes unpleasant neighbors)
Not always available when needed or desired
Some broiler litter suppliers require 200 tons per sale, or they won't sell to you


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Vhaby,

The costs of chicken litter here is 35.00 a ton with a minimum of 25 ton delivered. This is delivered in a large dump bed so once it's delivered you then have to load it into a spreader and spread it. The recommeded rate is 2 ton per acre so the price would be 70.00 a acre to fertilize with the chicken litter not counting the additonal costs of time/labor to spread. While I'm still waiting on a written quote from the Grasshopper rep the quote I was given over the phone was approximately 66.00-68.00 a acre. I can't tell you the exact prices of each element as I was driving down the road when it was quoted and couldn't write down all the exact figures, however when I get my written quote I will definitely let you know how it breaks down. Since I'm going to spread this when I spray my 2-4d (which I would do anyways) there is no additional costs in time/labor to spread it.

Hay Wilson,

Would those numbers be the same for orchard grass? I fairly curious to about your humidity percentages in regards to raking and baling. I'm new to the hay business as this is just my second year and am trying to educate myself. Tyically we start to rake as soon as the morning dew is off the ground and start baling soon after if the hay passes the eye/feel/smell test. I have never considered checking the humidity levels and that being relevant to producing a higher quality hay. How do you check the levels? Maybe I can find the name of the TN extension forage specialists as he could give me some pointers.

Kyle


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## hay king (Feb 6, 2011)

From my experince spreading CF is a wast of money because its a one time shot deal with no long term affects it just doesnt last. where as with chicken litter or any solid manure the effects are long term as it keeps working year after year. If I spread chicken litter on a field for 5 years straight on the 6th year I wont spread that field but the prodution of the grass stays close to the same. As far as getting the soil tested I did that a few times but found it made little diffrence when I use to put on CF since swiching to chicken litter i dont test the soil anymore. as the growth is unmatched vs Chem. As long as the grass is growing great I dont care whats is in the soil. The test result of the hay is what people want to see and as long as those test results age good thats what matters


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Here is one universal truth for hay.
The humidity we are talking about is down close to the hay, not free air humidity, not on TV and not at the Airport. 
90% RH the hay will have no lower than 40% Moisture. The magic moisture for raking. 
70% RH the hay will be no lower than 18 to 20% Moisture The magic moisture for small square baling.
65% RH the hay will be no lower than 16 to 18% Moisture. The magic moisture for large bales. 
55% RH the hay will be in the 12% moisture range where leaf shattering becomes a major concern.

The evil is in the details and there are a number of details.

One of the better publications on how to bale hay is:
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

I printed off the material, printed and enlarged the graphs, made many notes.

Another of the better publications on how to bale hay:

Management Tips for Round Bale Hay Harvesting, Moving, and Storage - Virginia Cooperative Extension

Many different states have good information. If you look to a state where the climate is different just remember their information will have to be interpolated. They will be addressing local conditions and their will not necessarily be universal.

Many States have a hay association. A number of these are affiliated with the American Forage & Grassland Council, http://www.afgc.org


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks Hay Wilson! Your always full of good advice!

Kyle


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

I mailed the Grasshopper rep a copy of my soil test and he called me back a couple of days ago. The mix he has recommended after seeing my soil test was a 108-0-83 (NPK) and that I should spray it in two applications. The cost to me is $62.00 a acre. I plan on spaying it as soon as the nightly temp gets/stays above 50 degrees. The local CO-OPs here just wrote a article in the monthly newsletter in regards to liquid fertilizer and herbicides. All the reports were positive. I'll keep you guys posted on how it turns out.

Kyle



vhaby said:


> What is the price per ton of your liquid fertilizer and what is the analysis? I have been given a price of $370/ton of UAN, 32-0-0. This equates to $.58/lb of N not counting the cost of spreading. At this price, if I were to apply 120 lb of N/acre it would cost $69.60/acre just for the N.
> 
> This year I applied broiler litter at a cost of $36/ton spread. If I applied 2 tons/acre it would cost $72/acre for this broiler litter. I've sampled this litter but have not sent it off for analysis. However, numerous samples of broiler litter analyzed across the southern states averaged 60 lb of N, 58 lb of P2O5, and 40 lb of K2O per ton. If I use this average and apply the price for N in UAN, the N in the broiler litter is valued at $69.60.
> 
> ...


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

I read through this thread & maybe I missed it but can someone tell me the approximate volume per ton in yards? I'm interested in it as we have 2 processing plants here (Pilgrim's Pride & Sanderson) so I'm hoping to find a nearby producer of birds for those plants.

Lew


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

tnwalkingred said:


> I mailed the Grasshopper rep a copy of my soil test and he called me back a couple of days ago. The mix he has recommended after seeing my soil test was a 108-0-83 (NPK) and that I should spray it in two applications. The cost to me is $62.00 a acre. I plan on spaying it as soon as the nightly temp gets/stays above 50 degrees. The local CO-OPs here just wrote a article in the monthly newsletter in regards to liquid fertilizer and herbicides. All the reports were positive. I'll keep you guys posted on how it turns out.
> 
> Kyle


Kyle,

There have been a number of threads on liquid fertilizer. As I recall, Grasshopper is a foliar fertilizer. That's not to say it's bad but it is different from a soil liquid fertilizer. I use liquid once in a while but not foliar. Before you jump in you may want to search out some of the old threads on the subject.

Mike


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Mike,

I have read and re-read many different articles/forums in regards to foliar fertilizer. Seems like the difference of opinion on this subject is just as across the board as politics! LOL. I DO NOT claim to be a expert on fertilizer but I wanted to pose a "dumb ole country boy" thoughts about it. I hear people argue that plants do not take nutrients in through their leaves and that a foliar fertilizer does not actually add any nutrients and it merely allows the plant to take up more nutrients that are already in the soil. While I do not know if either of those are true or not I do know that a herbicide can be taken into a plant thru the leaves which would suggest to me that nutrients would as well. However for arguments sake lets say it does not. If you are truly applying NPK units onto the plant would they not soak into the soil even if they did not take thru the leaves? I would assume that those nutrients would arrive at the soil when you had your next rain. The only way I can see a foliar or liquid fertilizer not working is if your were NOT ACTUALLY applying any NPK nutrients. This may very well be the case if the dealers were selling you a prouduct that had no nutrional value in it. But I do believe IF (and that may be a BIG IF) the product they are selling you in a liquid or foliar form truly has the stated NPK units in it then it would have to work regardless of how the plant took it in. Let's hear you guys thoughts on this. I am interested to hear some more educated ideas about this as I am completely UNEDUCATED. Thanks.

Kyle


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Kyle,

I guess I go back to fundimentals. Plants are not designed to take up nutrients through the leaves and only a few, like potassium, can easily enter the above ground part. Many are restricted by the waxy coating. That's not to say that foliar fertilizers are not benificial, but everything I've read basically says that less of the foliar fertilizer actually gets into the plant. So although they might be cheaper, you're actually getting less into the plant.

You bring up an interesting point though about herbicides though. Even though the chemical process is completely different than nutrition, I wonder if the uptake of foliar fertilizer could be inhanced using a super wetter surfactant? I don't know. I do know though that if I don't get some rain soon, it'll probably be a moot point.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

My 2 cents, we've seen some yield response in soybeans with foliar feeding. We use a foliar feed with several micro nutrients. It's not a guaranteed yield increase to the point where it's worth making a seperate trip across the field for so we usually apply while spraying with roundup or a fungicide. Again, we see enough yield response in soybeans to at the very least pay for the foliar feed, but it's not always guaranteed to help enough to justify a separate trip just for it.

Now interestingly enough when we used to milk several hundred cows and have well over 400 acres of Alfalfa out, Father never seen enough yield response to even be bothered with foliar feeding alfafla.


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm going to be applying the foliar fertilizer at the same time when I apply my 2-4d so the only thing I'm going to be out is the cost of the fertilizer myself. I may very well be wasting my money but I'm going to give it a shot. No one around here other than the dealer is using it currently as I think this is the first year anyone around here has sold it. I guess someone has to be the guinea pig! I will definitely report back and let everyone here know how it turns out. I'm also the first and ONLY person around here that's gonna use a hay basket so I guess this will be par for the course in regards to my unusal part time farming efforts! LOL.

Let me use this analogy and get you guys take on it. If I mix up 5 gallons of water with sugar and put it in a hand held sprayer and spray myself with it while standing in the shower would not the sugar still wash down the drain when I turn on the water?????? I believe it would. So even if the NPK nutrients in the spray did not take into the plant via being sprayed on the leaves would they not wash down into the soil after a rain and thus still get into the plant via the root system? Hell I don't know but it does make for interesting banter. Now when I'm spreading granular fertilizer and cussing myself for the wasted 600.00 dollars later on in the year you guys be sure and remind me of my silly shower analogy!!!!!! Hahahaha.

Kyle


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

We seem to have gotten away from the original topic in this thread. Never-the-less...

If the fertilizer is soluble in water, certain of plants' nutrient needs can be applied directly to the aerial portion of plants. The foliar applied nutrients must penetrate the cuticle of the leaf or the stomata and then enter the plant cells. Foliar application provides more rapid utilization of nutrients by plants and permits more rapid correction of deficiencies than by soil application. However, because plants take in only small amounts of nutrients via leaves and stems, the response often is only temporary.

The most important use of foliar application of plant nutrients has been for treatment of micro nutrient deficiencies such as iron, zinc, boron, manganese, etc. The greatest difficulty in supplying nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium in foliar sprays is in the application of adequate amounts without severely burning the leaves and without an unduly large volume of solution or number of spraying operations. Nutrient concentrations of generally less than 1 or 2% are employed in foliar sprays to avoid injury to foliage. Foliar sprays containing nitrogen have successfully been used on wheat at boot stage of growth to increase the protein content of the grain in tests in Montana. Montana wheat growers were paid a premium for high protein.

So...

Based on the above comments, nutrient application rates planned by tnwalkingred (Kyle) are not to be considered foliar fertilization, because as he indicated, excess nutrients applied to and not taken into the plant through the leaves will get into the soil and be taken up by the plants via roots. The potential problem with spraying high concentrations of nutrients onto foliage is temporary burn of vegetation, but if applied to young vegetation, the plant will grow out of that situation. Mixing Agrotain with liquid nitrogen (UAN) is claimed to prevent foliar burn. Much of the urea ammonium nitrate (32-0-0 or 28-0-0) applied to Coastal bermudagrass is spray broadcast with broadleaf weed control herbicide blended into it.

Allow me to direct you to Home . Click on (1) Center Publications; (2) AgriLife Article Search Database; (3) Keyword; (4) Scroll down the list and select nitrogen; (5) Click on the 7th bulleted title in the list that appears. This article deals with bermudagrass response to application of high concentrations of N, P2O5, and K2O.

Vegetation burn is not discussed in this article, but it did occur, and the bermudagrass rapidly grew out of the burned condition. Spray application burned the grass in the whole plot. Dribble banding the fertilizer burned narrow strips the length of the plots where the fertilizer contacted the grass. Once the grass grew out of the burn, the height of the grass in that strip increased compared to that in intervals between the strips, creating a wave appearance over the plot, but by harvest all the grass was of uniform height.


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Vhaby,

Thanks for the article and input. I found it very interesting that the yield increase didn't show up until the second year. I also thought it was interesting that the mix that had Magnesium added to it did significantly better than the ones without the Magnesium. I'm going to call my dealer and talk to him about whether the mix he quoted me had Magnesium in it or not. I also want to ask him about using Agrotain to help reduce the burn on the grass. This is a first year orchard grass stand that is very young so hopefully the burn will be minimal. I also want to explore the idea of using a super wetter surfactant as Mike brought up. I plan on makig the drive to get the fertilizer either this weekend or next.

Kyle


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

I found this article on the Grasshopper website and I thought it was interesting. It was done by Texas A&M county extension agents so I think it is a un-biased test. They took quite a few different fertilizer applications and then broke down the responses to each by yield, protein, and costs. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Burmuda Grass TX AM - Grasshopper

Kyle


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Kyle,

I'm not trying to turn you away from including magnesium in your liquid fertilizer, but in the article that I referred you to on the TAMU-Overton web site, bermudagrass dry matter yields were not different statistically when comparing treatments that included N- P- K and N- P- K + Mg. The yields from each of these treatments at both sites were followed by a common letter of the alphabet. See the explanation below the table. The purpose of statistical analysis of yield data is to evaluate the response to treatment so as to allow for experimental error. Experimental error can cause yield differences and statistical analysis ensures that only real differences are reported.

You noticed that yield differences did not occur among treatments the first year. This happens when yields are low due to poor growing conditions such as drought and when the residual supply of plant nutrients in the soil is adequate to supply the maximum needs of the plant under those poor growing conditions. The soil's supply of residual nutrients sometimes can be so high that even under optimum growing conditions, no yield differences occur among treatments.

In reviewing the Texas A&M county agents fertilizer trial on Coastal bermudagrass that you pointed us to, those results are from a one-year study in which growing conditions were less than favorable. So, based on what I stated above, don't make any conclusions from this study until the three-year total yields are completed. Also, projecting yield per acre from harvesting grass from one square foot in each plot is quite risky. Any small error in harvesting yield is projected 43,560 times (43,560 square feet in one acre). For example, if in one treatment the clippings are taken from a spot where the soil contained a greater concentration of residual nutrients and because of this, dry matter yields are greater in this one plot by only 10 grams (0.35 ounces) compared to yields from the other three similarly treated plots in the study, yield from that plot will be 960 lb/acre greater. Soils are quite variable in pH and plant nutrient content over even small distances.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*Soils are quite variable in pH and plant nutrient content over even small distances. *
This is a fact of life that is seldom acknowledged. 
Oklahoma demonstrated this testing down to one sq ft grids, while Ohio did the same down to 8 Sq in grids.
A Michigan Crop Advisor says he found this true by resampling the same site but with a slightly larger diameter probe.

*Experimental error can cause yield differences and statistical analysis ensures that only real differences are reported. *
I prefer to consider this a function of natural variability. 
Twenty years ago DR Al Rotz was doing some measuring and calibrating, on alfalfa hay curing. At the same time there was brassily the same measuring and calibrating being done at Artesia, NM. 
Needless to say each documented different findings, mostly attributable to their different climatic conditions.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> *Soils are quite variable in pH and plant nutrient content over even small distances. *
> This is a fact of life that is seldom acknowledged.
> Oklahoma demonstrated this testing down to one sq ft grids, while Ohio did the same down to 8 Sq in grids.
> A Michigan Crop Advisor says he found this true by resampling the same site but with a slightly larger diameter probe.


Yes they are. Last spring we had some corn that looked horrible from the road. 4-6 rows of good looking corn, then a few rows of sickly spindly looking stuff, then several rows of good followed by several more sickly rows.

We thought everything from compaction from where the grain cart ran the fall before when it was very wet to plugged tubes on the starter fertilizer coulters.

Had a consultant come out from the co-op and they pulled a lot of samples and it turns out in some of those bad streaks the PH was low while it was fine in the better streaks and across the field. What seemed to hurt the corn the most was the corn nematode counts were higher in the lower PH streaks.

From now on that field will be getting nematode resistant corn planted rather than deal with trying to spread lime in five foot streaks.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

mlappin,

Regarding the low pH streaks in your corn field, how low is the pH in these streaked areas? As you know, your limestone applicator probably failed to overlap sufficiently to attain uniform lime coverage. How many years has it been since lime treatment? One would think that the limestone dealer would want to make good on his driver's error and reapply limestone to those streaked strips.

If the pH is sufficiently low, around 5.2 or lower, you might be seeing aluminum or manganese toxicity in corn growing in these low pH strips. Was the corn in these strips sort of a grayish green with the appearance of wilting plants with burned leaf tips? See my post on
*Re: Question on planting spring alfalfa* dated 1/6/2011 for the image of manganese toxicity in field corn.


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