# Growing/Improving Farm-FSA



## triabordofarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi Hay Friends,

I would like some advise from some of you.....I currently own and farm 60 acres and rent another 85. All but 40 is grass hay. On my 40 I would like to go to pure alfalfa, install pivot irrigation and a well so I can raise 185+ RFV and 20+% protien for dairy. Also I want to build a new pole building for hay/equipment storage and rejuvinate/ replant some of my grass hay fields. All of this including a newer used round baler with acidizing comes to about $180,000. I can make this work IF the financing (annual payment amount) lets me. Have any of you used the FSA loans? My Greenstone people will do it but the annual payment means I will breakeven after the payments are met, figuring at the lowest end of yield/prices. I see the FSA has much better terms and amoritizing.

So my two questions are---do you think my expansion/improvement plan sounds good and how is it dealing with the FSA on a gaurenteed loan or Direct loan?


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

I think your expansion plan sounds pretty good, however you may want to split it up. The FSA, at least in my part of the world, does two types of loans. Loans for expansions, buying land, building irrigation systems, buying equipment and etc, and then there are operating capital loans for things like fertilizer, seed, diesel and etc. I don't personally have any loans with them, but I have a good friend of mine that uses only FSA loans, no private banks. There's a little more paperwork involved for FSA, but as you said the terms are better. Do your homework and talk to your local FSA/USDA office


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## triabordofarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks farmboy for your input. I am very aware of the paperwork with the FSA but like you said, terms are better. I do know that there will be two loans, one for infrastructure and a short-term for inputs. Right now I am waiting to hear from well drillers on costs--pivot and electric hookup came in well less than I expected. Going to visit FSA office a week from today. Thanks again!


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

No problem! That's good that you came in underbudget on the hookups. Oh and beware sticker shock on the well diggers' quotes. I dunno how deep your aquifer is there, but it's 1600 feet here and costs well over $90,000 to have a well put in. Good luck!

--Troy


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## triabordofarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi troy,

Well depth is 180', comes to just under $26,000. Thankfully we have plenty of ground water here. As for the FSA, they're closed! As we all know our dysfunctional represenatives in Washington are having quite a time, at our expense. I am looking at this shutdown as an opportunity to sharpen my business plan for the FSA.

I was at a wedding reception last weekend and spoke with several farmers (they are all farmers in that neck of Michigan woods) and the dairymen I spoke with all had the same answer to my question---would you be interested in quality alfalfa? They all answered "I'll take every bit you can grow" so needless to say, I'll have a market.

Just as a laugh, at the entrance to the wedding reception (I should have taken a picture) the sign handwritten said "We (bride and groom) apoligize for scheduling our wedding during harvest, my new wife, not coming from a farm family, was unaware and I was blinded by Love"


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Now that funny....


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Hahaha that's hilarious! Yeah that sucks about the FSA being closed, but I'm glad to hear well drilling isn't so expensive for you.


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## triabordofarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Troy,

Holy Cow! Your wells are deep! Here I think you'd hit oil at that depth. Seems it would take a lot of motor to pump it too. Pivot man says I need 35 hp pumping 250 gpm. Electric company says I have to have a VDF (variable frequency drive) single phase 480v. Seems out here rural electric here is a bit rickety. I can have one motor start every 24 hours. I did talk with the driller and he says this VDF motor is very efficient. Says a normal motor may blink the neighbors lights. Electric company says our area is next for upgrades. If you could see the poles here I'd bet they're from the 50's or before. Anyway thanks for the input.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

A well for a pivot on ground next to us is hung at 38' and pulling 1000gpm. This is in the river bottom.


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## triabordofarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Wow! 38'. Lake Michigan is 1/2 mile away.....would like to tap that source but I'm also 400' above the Lake. I think the neighbors and authorities might object to a pump and pipeline through their beachfront


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## JM.Shook (Jul 22, 2013)

triabordofarm said:


> Troy,
> 
> Holy Cow! Your wells are deep! Here I think you'd hit oil at that depth. Seems it would take a lot of motor to pump it too. Pivot man says I need 35 hp pumping 250 gpm. Electric company says I have to have a VDF (variable frequency drive) single phase 480v. Seems out here rural electric here is a bit rickety. I can have one motor start every 24 hours. I did talk with the driller and he says this VDF motor is very efficient. Says a normal motor may blink the neighbors lights. Electric company says our area is next for upgrades. If you could see the poles here I'd bet they're from the 50's or before. Anyway thanks for the input.


I must live in Disneyland, here the water table is 5-30ft in most places. It's literally so high at my home place that our basement/ tornado shelter is only 5'8" from concrete floor to air duct, and even with the shortened basement it floods every couple years to about 6" with the pump running 24/7...


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Well the 1600' isn't the water table, that's about 35-40ish feet here. The 1600 feet is to reach the pure aquifers or underground rivers where you can pump large quantities of water from.

This is a pretty neat website regarding water/wells

http://www.ruralurbanresources.org


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