# Key to getting the nice soft (grass) horse hay?



## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

Need some tips to producing that nice soft palitiable horse grass hay. I remember buying from a couple sources years ago but it seems harder and harder to find. Assuming I have a moisture meter and cutting in the boot stage (weather permitting) any other tips? thanks


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## Dolphin (May 21, 2010)

Post your location, it will help. Most regular users here have their location listed in their profile for just that reason.


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## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry not sure how to fill in location etc. I'm new to computers and online. Anyway I live in Eastern Washington (the state). North of Spokane. Its pretty arid and not much rain in the Summer. Humidity in the Summer is around 10% and windy. I think thats the reason we get so much dry hay here. I do see some guys baling at mid-night. Maybe those are the guy that get the more softer hay? I just want to learn how to bale it consistantly... thanks for any help


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Putting up hay in the Arid West is entirely different than in the Humid East. 
The universal truths are the same for both places, but the penalties for going against the rules are different.

The key to nice soft hay is keeping the leaves.

The rules are:
When the humidity is above 90% the hay moisture will be no less than 40%
When the humidity is 70% the hay moisture will be 20%. (The difference is day and night)
When the humidity is 55% the hay moisture will be on the edge of too dry to bale.

In your world you want to rake the hay into windrows that you will be baling, ASAP after it hits the ground. 
Yes it will cure faster in a wide swath, but the leaves will never be above 48% in the days to follow. 
During the hay season the only time you will have enough humidity to bale will be during the night time. 
Catching it on the rise you probably want to start baling when the humidity comes up to 65%. Then bale until the hay becomes too tough to bale. 
Lacking that you can start baling with a 55% humidity with a lot more loss of leaves.

Tools, you can bale using stem moisture to have enough humidity, inside of the windrow, to bale, but you will need a preservative to keep the stems from molding. 
You can have a water wagon spray the windrows with water 15 minutes before baling. 
You can have a steam machine right in front of the baler to put enough steam to get moisture into the leaves to bale.

Over on Viewing a forum - Crop Talk - http://talk.newagtalk.com there are a number of hay growers in your climate. People with first hand knowledge, rather than my second hand information.

Now if you were in Kentucky with their climate yo will do things differently. A lot different.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Updated your location...welcome aboard hayTalk...drop Zach or I a line we can always help you out.



Blaze 57 said:


> Sorry not sure how to fill in location etc. I'm new to computers and online. Anyway I live in Eastern Washington (the state). North of Spokane. Its pretty arid and not much rain in the Summer. Humidity in the Summer is around 10% and windy. I think that's the reason we get so much dry hay here. I do see some guys baling at mid-night. Maybe those are the guy that get the more softer hay? I just want to learn how to bale it consistently... thanks for any help


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## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks downtownjr! appreciate the help!


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

To make high quality hay you want to have dry hay, no stem moisture! Do everything with the dew on and the stars out. Simple as that









Some of the best hay in the world is grown in the Ellensburg, WA area. Drive down there around the middle of June and see what those guys are doing. You can have too much dew on grass hay, we usually catch the dew coming on and then going off after sunrise. Alfalfa likes lots of dew and you can't go wrong if you are sure you have zero stem moisture. If the forecast is nice, just get a few extra nights of sleep and good hay will almost go up by mistake.

Then log on here and brag about how nice it is to live where the sun shines!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

haystax said:


> Then log on here and brag about how nice it is to live where the sun shines!


Oh stop it. Raining here some more, already have a sinking feeling that's going to be the norm for the fourth year in a row. If it is, I plan on spraying a lot of hay acres this fall and no-tilling it to corn in 2012, just getting to be too much hassle making hay in a never ending monsoon only to turn around and practically give it away.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> just getting to be too much hassle making hay in a never ending monsoon only to turn around and practically give it away.


I agree. The horse market hereabouts is depressed on top off people wanting $150/ton quality at $50/ton prices. Fertilizer, seed costs, chemicals, diesel, etc. have all gone up in the last 4 years. I put 25% of my hay ground into wheat this year to see if weather and hay prices turn around. I plan on putting 25% into wheat next year as well.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Yah, horse market is practically non existent around here anymore. The ones that are left want it cheaper than what the dairy guys are paying, their reasoning being "their just feeding it to horses". If you don't want to pay the price for good stuff, then go buy junk, but don't insult me as I know exactly what it cost to put up and what a pain in the neck it was to get done.


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## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

I am growing this hay for my own horses. Probably not selling any unless I have left over at the end of the year. Yea I agree horse people are really picky with hay which is a good idea. When I buy horse hay I don't complain about costs if its good stuff. I pay the extra for quality and move on and don't complain because I know it will save me in vet bills down the road. The guys that have good reputations here that put up the best horse hay get top price and usually have a waiting list to get on. I farm call for a vet is $80.00 dollars here and goes up from there. A colic from moldy hay can approach $500-$1000 at least. Heaves from dusty hay is also $$ in vet bills. So in the long run you are better off buying the quality-expensive horse hay rather than being fugal and having the vet out $$. I have also noticed more and more hay ground going into wheat here too.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Blaze 57 said:


> A colic from moldy hay can approach $500-$1000 at least. Heaves from dusty hay is also $$ in vet bills. So in the long run you are better off buying the quality-expensive horse hay rather than being fugal and having the vet out $$. I have also noticed more and more hay ground going into wheat here too.


Cause wheat's worth more now and a LOT less work.

I'm feeling ornery today so a question to all the horsey folks. Does moldy hay cause colic? I have a customer who owns a riding/boarding stable and has forty horse's on his property atm, needless to say he buys a LOT of round bales from me thru the year. He also raises a few of his own Arabians for showing. He's been doing this for almost forty years now and agrees that moldy will cause heaves or other respiratory problems but is never the sole cause of colic. Lack of adequate water intake causes colic. If the hayburners are drinking enough water moldy hay is still not the sole cause of colic.


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## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

Feeding moldy hay to horses can and will cause colic. Its the toxins in the mold that cause all kinds of insult to the gastrointestinal tract inflicted by certain molds or the toxins they produce. Anyone feeding moldy hay to a horse is asking for trouble and the possibility of heaves goes up too with moldy hay. Too much grain, lack of exercise and movement or lack of hay, worming and water too can cause colic. Many factors. Best thing is preventive and common sense and elimanate anything that you might thing will cause colic but yes feeding moldy hay will cause colic but not the only source of colic.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So hows the theory that the Amish have around here that if the hays moldy feed it outdoors so the wind can carry the dust away? I've seen some Amish feed some mighty poor hay before, with old order Amish the hayburner is a necessity.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The original question was how to produce nice soft GRASS horse hay. The key is to mow the first cutting in VERY EARLY boot stage to prevent hay from getting overly stemmy. Second cutting is not much of a problem as long as you keep it weed free. Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

VOL said:


> The original question was how to produce nice soft GRASS horse hay. The key is to mow the first cutting in VERY EARLY boot stage to prevent hay from getting overly stemmy. Second cutting is not much of a problem as long as you keep it weed free. Regards, Mike


This^^^. Mow the first one early, then if it gets too dry, wait for the dew to set. Works kinda the same for alfalfa as well. No matter the hay, once it starts to get mature or stemmy it ain't gonna be soft.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

mlappin said:


> I'm feeling ornery today so a question to all the horsey folks. Does moldy hay cause colic? I have a customer who owns a riding/boarding stable and has forty horse's on his property atm, needless to say he buys a LOT of round bales from me thru the year. He also raises a few of his own Arabians for showing. He's been doing this for almost forty years now and agrees that moldy will cause heaves or other respiratory problems but is never the sole cause of colic. Lack of adequate water intake causes colic. If the hayburners are drinking enough water moldy hay is still not the sole cause of colic.


It depends on the horse.....I've had some that could stress themselves into a colic if they were the last horse turned out. I've had them colic when the weather changed, and I've had them colic when we changed hay/feed to quickly. However, it's probably been five years since I've had a vet out for a colic and I typically have 25-30 of the hayburners around here. Give them a shot of Banamine, check them for normal gut sounds, take them off of normal feed and give them mush and they are usually fine. With many babies, we start giving them some alfalfa at around 4 months until around a month after they are weaned. Studies show that some alfalfa in the diet mitigates stress and other colics. By itself, unless it's REAL moldy, moldy hay will not usually cause a colic. The issue is that the sudden change in the hay (from not-moldy to moldy) does not allow the bacteria in the gut time to adjust to the new stuff and you can get a gas colic. The bigger problem can come from changing from something like Tifton 85 to Coastal. Unless it's done slowly the lower digestiability of Coastal can cause an impaction colic in some horses and that's much more trouble to deal with. Not drinking adiquate amounts of water will cause the same thing. That's a winter problem here and only for a few horses.

That's why I grow my own hay, it's a lot less trouble for me in the long run and my operating costs are significantly lower than barns who have to pay market prices and deal with a lot of variability in their hay sources.


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## tonto97 (Mar 25, 2011)

Howdy Hay Wilson in TX. "Now if you were in Kentucky with their climate yo will do things differently. A lot different."

Please say more about Kentucky. I'm in KY and need all the pointers I can get on putting up high quality horse grass hay (both orchard grass & timothy) and legume:grass mix (alfalfa + orch grass + timothy). Been doing it for almost 10 years but learn something new every year -- if I'm lucky! Typically, I serve a niche market here for mostly Amish horse owners. They don't quibble on price and do want high quality. My methods of trying to give them what they want is to put up dry, well fertilized based on annual soil analyses, very tight round 4X5 rolls net wrapped, stored undercover. After cutting on Day 1, tedding morning of Day 2, I check windrow moistures beginning on Day 3 after cutting. When moisture checks show about 20% late in the afternoon on Day 3 or 4, I plan to roll the next day. Also check windrow moisture again next in morning (after dew has mostly burned off) and begin rolling when it approaches 15% (sometimes as low as 12% on grass hay. This GUARANTEES no mold, which is the No. 1 requirement from the Amish horse owners. (I use no preservatives -- all natural solar drying only.) Finally, always get a hay analysis so I know what I'm selling. This year, I sold out in mid-Feb -- great year.

I am in southcentral KY near the Mammoth Cave National Park region. Appreciate any pointers from you experienced horse hay growers. Thanks.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*Howdy Hay Wilson in TX. "Now if you were in Kentucky with their climate yo will do things differently. A lot different."*
If I were *Blessed* with KY Weather I would be a nervious wreck. 
As strange as it may sound, I am a member of the Kentucky Forage & Grassland Council. Gary Lacefield is one of my mentors. I actually look to Kentucy for guidence. 
One reason is my prime alfalfa harvesting months of April & May and those months have a Humid East type climate.

The Universal truth we all have to accomidate is 90% RH then 70%, 65%, & 55% Relative humidity. (Measured down at the hay level.)
With a *90%* RH the hay can be raked with a minimum of leaf shattering. 
With *70%* RH we expect to bale small square bales with no molding, BUT there is a kicker. The stems have to be really dry and the leaves having all the moisture, the hay will be in the 20% moisture range. Reverse that and we have a bundle of moldy sticks. 
*When moisture checks show about 20% late in the afternoon on Day 3 or 4, I plan to roll the next day.* *This is how I do it, also.*
With a *65%* RH the hay will be in the 16% to 18% humidity range for large dense bales. 
Somewhere in the *55%* humidity range is where excessive leaf shattering starts. 
We both want maximum hay drying the day it is cut. That is when hay spread out full width has it's most positive effect.


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## tonto97 (Mar 25, 2011)

Good morning Hay Wilson: Thanks for very quick reply. Good advice. Appreciate it. Perhaps a real obvious question: What instrument do you use to check humidity range in the windrow?


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Tonto,

I was wondering the same thing as you. Exactly what should we be using on the cut hay in the field in order to determine what time is ideal for raking and baling???????

Kyle


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

I found this on the GA hay producers site that talks about using a microwave and a simple math formula to check for moisture in your hay. It's a PDF file so I can only attach the link to the main site but it's under the hot topics page at the bottom entitled "Measuring the Moisture Content of Forage Using a Microwave Oven". Check it out and let me know what you guys think.

Georgia Forages - From the University of Georgia Crop and Soil Sciences Department

Kyle


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## tonto97 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mornin' tnwalkingred. I have been using the microwave testing of windrowed hay for over three years. Haven't had a horse hay customer call me about moldy rolls in 3 years. In KY, where we have high humidity and slow hay curing in spring, it's real tough to get a 1000 pound roll of alfalfa to stay dry in storage. But, rolling the alfalfa at 14 to 15% moisture will do it. The technique is pretty simple. I just ride my 4 wheeler around the hayfields taking samples of the bottom hay on Day 3 or 4 or 5. (This is the greenest hay I can find out in the field since if I know the bottom hay is low moisture, the top sure is. The microwave (m/w) test is simple and VERY accurate if your sample is accurate. You will need a very sensitive analytical scale (can buy from ebay for < $50). Cut up the hay sample with shears into one inch lengths. Mix them up in a bucket. Grab a handful and weigh out 100 grams. M/w it for 2 minutes. Check the weight. Write it down. Sample back in m/w. Burn it 1 minutes. Reck weight. Keep doing this until it stops losing weight. Do the math to see how much weight was lost from the initial sample to the last sample. That is the % moisture.

I've learned to keep my alfalfa around 14 to 15% in the windrow just before baling and if so, no mold. Grass hay can be a little drier (12 to 14%) since there is no problem with leaf shatter like there is with alfalfa. Only disadvantage is it takes some time on the day before you plan to bale and it takes some time on the day you plan to bale. But, it has been really eyeopening to see high moisture numbers come from hay that I thought was already to roll and bale. Generally, thanks to the m/w moisture test, I usually wait an extra day longer to rake and roll than almost all of my neighbors. Definitely worth the time it takes to do this extra testing chore.


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## tonto97 (Mar 25, 2011)

PS Don't try this microwave hay moisture test in mama's kitchen. It stinks up the area big time!


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## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks for the input tonto! I may try this method this year and see how it works. We typically just use the eye/nose/feel test to tell us when to start baling. This is the method my grandfather has always used but I have learned that making high quality hay is much more scientific than some believed it used to be. Guess I better start looking at the yardsales for a old micorwave! LOL

Kyle


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