# How to tell if teff is dry enough to bale?



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I mowed my teff very late Saturday night...didnt start drying till Sunday, tedded it Sunday afternoon and let it lay all day today. To me it seems that it would bale tomorrow but after hearing some of the stories of you experienced haymakers baling when you thought it was dry and then not being quite dry has got me scared stiff. How do you tell if this stuff is dry or not? Since the weather seems okay and I have a bunch of other baling to do tomorrow I'm thinking about going ahead and waiting to bale Wednesday. Thanks, Hayden


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I mowed my teff very late Saturday night...didnt start drying till Sunday, tedded it Sunday afternoon and let it lay all day today. To me it seems that it would bale tomorrow but after hearing some of the stories of you experienced haymakers baling when you thought it was dry and then not being quite dry has got me scared stiff. How do you tell if this stuff is dry or not? Since the weather seems okay and I have a bunch of other baling to do tomorrow I'm thinking about going ahead and waiting to bale Wednesday. Thanks, Hayden


 That is the mystery. I baled mine today. I was going to bale tomorrow but it sure felt dry and when I baled my tester in the baler never once went above 12% and my probe never went above or below 14.6%. That's the lowest that tester goes. I'll let you know in a few days if I did right or not. Though that won't help you Wednesday.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I mowed my teff very late Saturday night...didnt start drying till Sunday, tedded it Sunday afternoon and let it lay all day today. To me it seems that it would bale tomorrow but after hearing some of the stories of you experienced haymakers baling when you thought it was dry and then not being quite dry has got me scared stiff. How do you tell if this stuff is dry or not? Since the weather seems okay and I have a bunch of other baling to do tomorrow I'm thinking about going ahead and waiting to bale Wednesday. Thanks, Hayden


I faced the same thing on Sunday. I baled one windrow and was set to continue then got the teff heebegeeges. Since I could wait as you can, I did. Not sorry. I would say wait. It will still be nice and you won't worry as much. rick


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FC-one other thing-looks like it has not been raked yet. I would rake it sometime this pm early enough that the top completely dries before dew sets. That way you are not turning over green stuff tomorrow for the first time. Roll over at noon tomorrow and bale at 2-that should do.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Well I though I would give an update on my teff experience this year. It seems like I have had a quite different experience with it than many others on here have had. It has been two and a half weeks since I baled it and it never went through a sweat after I baled it. It was mowed after dark on saturday so you might as well say it had all day Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday to dry and was raked and baled as soon as the dew burnt off on Wednesday. I tedded the hay once on Sunday. I thought the hay was plenty dry on Tuesday to bale but after hearing others troubles about baling it too green when they thought it was dry I decided to give it another day since the weather was clear. The hay was very bleached by Wednesday and was very dry. It was very hard to get a good bale weight it was so dry and very dusty baling....I think I could have even baled with a dew on it to add moisture to it. I realize this is a very different experience than many of you had with it and the only difference I could see is when the hay needed to be cut it was raining every day and it was lodged very bad and completely headed out but no seed had fomed in the head yet when the weather broke to be able to cut. I guess the hay will still be okay feed even though it was mature when cut....maybe much like first cut orchard. It was about 60 days after planting when it was cut. Another thing the hay doesn't have a normal hay smell....it has a very faint different fresh smell to it. It did not regrow at all after cutting either, I'm assuming that is because it had already had went into reproductive mode.

I had no tilled another field of it the 5 of August out of curiosity to see if I could get a better stand than I did the first time. This time I used uncoated seed at 8 pounds per acre and used talcum powder as endrow suggested and turned off all down pressure. I did get a much better stand but still not quite as good as I wanted. One problem I still have is when going downhill the seeds and collecting in the some of the seed tubes and then dumping out when I get to the bottom of the hill. This was very obvious after the field germinated....going up the hill every row came up equal but coming downhill there was 5 to 6 rows that didnt come up and at the bottom of the hill you could see where it came up extremely thick.

I cut this field yesterday and it was mostly all in a vegetive state with a few seed heads just barely peeking out of the leaf. Most of the field had lodged....I dont know why. I guess this is about when you are supposed to cut it. I tedded the hay this morning and I think it will bale tomorrow. I will be interested to see how different this time will be than my first experience with teff. Any thoughts?


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

My first cutting didn't cure very well I think because I maybe cut it too soon. Very little had headed out. 2nd cutting never got to bale. 3rd cutting had headed out quite a bit and dried good in 3 days, but the ground was very dry. We'll see about 4th cutting as the ground is quite wet right now. I'm hoping to cut around Thursday if the weather holds and turns nice. But it won't get into the 90s for the rest of the year and the days are getting shorter. So we will see.

Why did you decide to use uncoated seed your second try?


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I used uncoated only because that is what my local seed store could get. The funny thing is I used the timothy setting on my drill with the larger coated seed and it was planting it heavy but with the smaller uncoated seed I decided to try the timothy setting again and it almost planted it within the ounce. My drill had no trouble metering the small seed....it's just the hills that are a problem.

Did you have good regrowth after your 3rd cutting since it had headed out? I can't figure out why my first field of teff didnt regrow.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I used uncoated only because that is what my local seed store could get. The funny thing is I used the timothy setting on my drill with the larger coated seed and it was planting it heavy but with the smaller uncoated seed I decided to try the timothy setting again and it almost planted it within the ounce. My drill had no trouble metering the small seed....it's just the hills that are a problem.
> 
> Did you have good regrowth after your 3rd cutting since it had headed out? I can't figure out why my first field of teff didnt regrow.


FC-the website says cut it before heading out which I found to be about 24-26" height to have max TDN and CP. It also says that it does not respond as quickly on regrowth if you let it get higher before cutting. My third cutting had much less teff and more fall panicum in it which is what we get in all of our fields here in sept. I think the key to keep it going is N app after first cutting which I believe is what Teslan did.


----------



## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Most of what I've read says to cut off at 4" high. Does it have a tendency to blow down in front of a disc mower when cutting that high? I other words does it have a strong enough stem to stand tall at 24-26" high?


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Just a suggestion, I realize it can be better to get it done when you are able to get to it type of thing.

The day of cutting is a crucial day for drying. The stems and leaves all have small breathing holes, Stomata, to allow moisture escape the plant. It is to help pull fresh moisture & essential elements up to the growing cells. 
These breathing holes stay open as long as there is day light. Put them in the dark and they close. What we want is for the leaves to dry down to less than 42% moisture by dark. Then the plant cells have essentially died and there will not be any respiration over night. Respiration equals burning energy. This energy equals feed value and total dry matter.
The direct rays of the sun also heats the sap increasing the vapor pressure. This elivated vapor pressure pushes moisture out the nearest openings. If the stomata are still open drying is more rapid. The second day we have the same vapor pressure thing but now the nearest opening is the cut in the stem and any cuts and abrasions in the stems and leaves. (Conditioning)

The good people at Cornel published a graph showing how the amount of pan evaporation effects drying. They have lines for hay in a windrow to hay spread out. Yield and pan evaporation are the X & Y axis of the graph. The higher the yield the more pan evaporation needed. The wider the hay is spread out the less pan evaporation is needed.

The effect is with a light cutting, one ton/A or less the hay will cure quite well in a windrow.
With a really good cutting the hay had best be dropped in a very wide windrow or the pan evaporation must be really high, or the time to cure the hay will be a long one. Our friends in the Desert West, with their 0.60" pan evaporation can still cure hay in a windrow, but here in the more humid part of the country that same really high yield will take two days more than forever.
Dan Undersander in Wisconsin took the cornel graph and printed it with color to demonstrate the effect of a wide windrow on hay curing.

There is a whole world of information in that graph. If you can find the Wisconsin graph on the internet use it. Or you can pay Cornel $15 for their publication.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> Most of what I've read says to cut off at 4" high. Does it have a tendency to blow down in front of a disc mower when cutting that high? I other words does it have a strong enough stem to stand tall at 24-26" high?


Actually I don't believe the 4 inch minimum cut thing now. I had thought I was going to disk it up after 3rd cutting so I cut it down to 2 inches. Then decided to not disk it up and try and get a 4th. It came back good it just took a couple more days to recover. However that means two more days to get the cut hay off the field without driving all over 6 inch Teff. So I see that as a good thing.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I used uncoated only because that is what my local seed store could get. The funny thing is I used the timothy setting on my drill with the larger coated seed and it was planting it heavy but with the smaller uncoated seed I decided to try the timothy setting again and it almost planted it within the ounce. My drill had no trouble metering the small seed....it's just the hills that are a problem.
> 
> Did you have good regrowth after your 3rd cutting since it had headed out? I can't figure out why my first field of teff didnt regrow.


Yes it recovered good after 3rd cut. I'm just waiting now for the weather to dry out to cut 4th.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Teslan said:


> Actually I don't believe the 4 inch minimum cut thing now. I had thought I was going to disk it up after 3rd cutting so I cut it down to 2 inches. Then decided to not disk it up and try and get a 4th. It came back good it just took a couple more days to recover. However that means two more days to get the cut hay off the field without driving all over 6 inch Teff. So I see that as a good thing.


Teslan- I tend to agree with you on the min height thing. I cut twice with the NH1409 discbine header tilted up which gives you about a 4 inch cut. The problem with that as you said and it is particularly a problem on the earlier hay, the stubble is so high it is coming through your hay that you are trying to cure and you are trying to hurry up and bale even if too high a moisture content. So actually stunting it for several days is a good thing.

Grateful- it stands just fine at 24" but I did not have high winds or hail hit it when it was that tall. Someone reported earlier that theirs lodged badly but I think it had headed out and they had too much rain to cut on time.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Just a suggestion, I realize it can be better to get it done when you are able to get to it type of thing.
> 
> The day of cutting is a crucial day for drying. The stems and leaves all have small breathing holes, Stomata, to allow moisture escape the plant. It is to help pull fresh moisture & essential elements up to the growing cells.
> These breathing holes stay open as long as there is day light. Put them in the dark and they close. What we want is for the leaves to dry down to less than 42% moisture by dark. Then the plant cells have essentially died and there will not be any respiration over night. Respiration equals burning energy. This energy equals feed value and total dry matter.
> ...


 Thanks for the excellent information. I have been trying when at all possible to cut early in the day like you suggest to increase dry down before dark. Every now and then I have had to cut in the evening due to other things that had to get done. My haybine leaves the hay at about 80 percent or so coverage of the ground. Depending on how thick the hay is I will either Ted right after mowing or the next morning. What is the latest you can cut in the day to get the hay dried down to where respiration stops by night? What happens if you cut the hay after dark? Will the stomata still open the next morning since that is the first sunlight they would be exposed to after cutting since it was cut after dark when the stomata would be closed anyway?


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> Teslan- I tend to agree with you on the min height thing. I cut twice with the NH1409 discbine header tilted up which gives you about a 4 inch cut. The problem with that as you said and it is particularly a problem on the earlier hay, the stubble is so high it is coming through your hay that you are trying to cure and you are trying to hurry up and bale even if too high a moisture content. So actually stunting it for several days is a good thing.
> 
> Grateful- it stands just fine at 24" but I did not have high winds or hail hit it when it was that tall. Someone reported earlier that theirs lodged badly but I think it had headed out and they had too much rain to cut on time.


 That was me...it was headed out and cut late but it lodged before it headed out. To me lodging is normally a couple things, too much nitrogen, planted too thick, or just excessive winds and rain at the wrong time. Well I don't think it would be too much N, I applied 50 units at planting and we had a ton of rain during July so I wouldn't think it was that, it Definately was not too thick, it was really on the thin side, so I just chalked it up as too much rain and wind at the wrong time. Well on my late planted field it did the same thing...lodged when it is supposed to be ready to cut....this time there was no wind or rain as it has been dry for a couple of weeks now. The field had 50 units of nitrogen the end of June and we had about 30 inches of rain before it got planted the first of August so again I wouldn't think it was too much N, and it was not too thick either. It almost seems the stem is too weak to support the top growth when it gets more than 18 inches. This is a major drawback for me and it leaves a very ragged stubble as when it lodged it goes down flat and you would have to cut into the dirt to get a clean cut.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, can't imagine that 50 units of N would cause lodging. That is what I used and had no problem with any of the three cuttings or at least I did not have any lodging. Used about 10# to the acre and got a good stand most places. on wash outs, I over seeded those so they eventually filled in. Can't understand why yours lodged twice.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> Yeah, can't imagine that 50 units of N would cause lodging. That is what I used and had no problem with any of the three cuttings or at least I did not have any lodging. Used about 10# to the acre and got a good stand most places. on wash outs, I over seeded those so they eventually filled in. Can't understand why yours lodged twice.


I read somewhere that you should only apply about 50 lbs of N in a season in split applications or it might lodge. I can't remember now where I read that.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I only put on 50 units in spring early and it ran out of gas.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Though I would update on how my teff went today. I rotary raked it about 2 this afternoon and went back about 4 and it seemed to be dry enough to bale, felt, looked and smelled right. I baled about 10 bales and went back to check the weight and they were very heavy and I felt of a bale and it felt damp...much too damp to be baling. I felt the windrow in front of the baler and it felt dry but as soon as it was in the bale it felt damp. To be on the safe side i cut open the bales and scattered them back in a windrow and will hopefully try again tomorrow. My only concern is since the hay is in the windrow will it finish drying out? I plan on turning the windrow after the dew burns off to get the bottom off the ground but I'm hoping since I rotary raked it will dry on out without having to scatter it back out and rerake. This is very confusing to me and very different than my first experience with teff.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> Though I would update on how my teff went today. I rotary raked it about 2 this afternoon and went back about 4 and it seemed to be dry enough to bale, felt, looked and smelled right. I baled about 10 bales and went back to check the weight and they were very heavy and I felt of a bale and it felt damp...much too damp to be baling. I felt the windrow in front of the baler and it felt dry but as soon as it was in the bale it felt damp. To be on the safe side i cut open the bales and scattered them back in a windrow and will hopefully try again tomorrow. My only concern is since the hay is in the windrow will it finish drying out? I plan on turning the windrow after the dew burns off to get the bottom off the ground but I'm hoping since I rotary raked it will dry on out without having to scatter it back out and rerake. This is very confusing to me and very different than my first experience with teff.


Your experience is the same as mine. It is just different stuff and I can't figure out where that moisture comes from during baling. If you run your fingernail down the stem no water comes out, but you are right-those bales are heavy. I haven't lost any from second or third cutting and when you cut open a bale you can still feel the moisture and softness in the hay as well as it still having a good smell.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I got the teff baled this afternoon....seemed to be plenty dry this time. I turned the windrows with the rake about 1 to get what was at the bottom all night up in the air and started baling about 3. It made a very pretty bale of hay but I was very disappointed with the yield....only 37 bales per acre. I sure hope it regrows enough to get another cutting in a month. I have noticed that the teff has quite a different smell than other hay....not in a bad way but it is more of just a fresh smell that is different than other hay.

I still have not decided if I like teff or not....I might would be interested in giving it another try next year but if I can't get better yields it just doesn't pencil out too good. The lodging is another issue. Now that I know more what to expect as far as drying down that doesnt concern me as much as in a normal summer we normally have plenty of dry windows to get it cured. So far I have had a much better experience with sorghum sudan as a summer annual hay crop.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I got the teff baled this afternoon....seemed to be plenty dry this time. I turned the windrows with the rake about 1 to get what was at the bottom all night up in the air and started baling about 3. It made a very pretty bale of hay but I was very disappointed with the yield....only 37 bales per acre. I sure hope it regrows enough to get another cutting in a month. I have noticed that the teff has quite a different smell than other hay....not in a bad way but it is more of just a fresh smell that is different than other hay.
> 
> I still have not decided if I like teff or not....I might would be interested in giving it another try next year but if I can't get better yields it just doesn't pencil out too good. The lodging is another issue. Now that I know more what to expect as far as drying down that doesnt concern me as much as in a normal summer we normally have plenty of dry windows to get it cured. So far I have had a much better experience with sorghum sudan as a summer annual hay crop.


FC-I feel your pain. Love the smell, love the look, finally figured out how to get it made, but the numbers are hard to ignore-it is expensive to produce. Teff does look like a nice way to start a new field of something (like OG or I hope Timothy) planted no till in fall. You can get the ground well worked and the teff comes up fast and covers and is easy to kill in the fall for the next crop. I suppose millet offers the same but I don't have a market for millet. I think to make teff work you need about 7$ a bale. I think it is worth that in terms of feed value but getting that is another kettle of fish.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> FC-I feel your pain. Love the smell, love the look, finally figured out how to get it made, but the numbers are hard to ignore-it is expensive to produce. Teff does look like a nice way to start a new field of something (like OG or I hope Timothy) planted no till in fall. You can get the ground well worked and the teff comes up fast and covers and is easy to kill in the fall for the next crop. I suppose millet offers the same but I don't have a market for millet. I think to make teff work you need about 7$ a bale. I think it is worth that in terms of feed value but getting that is another kettle of fish.


For me Teff is pretty cheap to grow. The seed isn't that expensive. I think if you planted it one season after the other you wouldn't need to till the ground as much. It uses much less fertilizer then Brome/Orchard. It grows when it is hot much better then orchard/brome so 2nd and 3rd cutting would make more. After it gets established it requires much less irrigation which is a money saver for me. But I do have to sell it cheaper then orchard and brome simply because people don't know what it is.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> But I do have to sell it cheaper then orchard and brome simply because people don't know what it is.


Maybe after you get them addicted to it you can charge more?


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> Maybe after you get them addicted to it you can charge more?


That is my current business plan!


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Though I would give an update on my teff field. Today I cut an extremely thin second cut, the field was cut for the first time on September 13th.....I left about 4 inches of stubble and regrowth was very slow and thin. Anything that had lodged did not regrow at all....that was over half of the stand. It was about 50 percent headed out when I cut it today.....this time it was not lodged at all because it only got about 12 to 15 tall. Truthfully it wasn't hardly enough of a stand to make it worth cutting, if I had not have been cutting a field of sorghum sudan beside of it I would not have even messed with it. I have decided I do not really like teff too much....there is just a lot of issues with it I have had that I can't figure out and the yield is not good.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FC- I agree with you that the yields are disappointing and I don't think you recoup your costs but it does provide a great rest crop for a fall no till seeding- could be either to alfalfa or to grass. Will post pics of timothy stand I got going now-pics should be good in another 2 weeks. Can't figure out how Teslan gets his yields although he does have water. He sure got more than I did. However, if you can get beyond the yield issue, I have a clean stand of new grass in teff stubble without weeds-may get some chickweed in spring but I am not sure how it will compete with the timothy. Also, no, I mean NO fescue in the field.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I will say the teff fields are pretty clean weed wise but for me oats planted in the fall followed by sorghum sudan after the oat hay is made is a better smother crop. I got rid of a heavy stand of dewberry briars this way that I tried for 2 years to kill by spraying....I tried about everything but they would just come back. The oats were so thick and heavy in the spring the briars could not come through then when I made the hay the briars started coming up then I disked and planted the sorghum sudan and that stuff came out of the ground running and shaded the ground completely within a couple weeks and that did the briars in for good. The only downside to this is I'm finding the sorghum sudan hay a bit hard to sell.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, don't think I would have any market for sudan here and my dad and I made a pact when I was young to never plant oat hay again- was bloody georgeous and sold to the feed store for a good price, BUT, we fought rats and mice in the barn for about 10 years afterwards. They loved that stuff, nests in every bale and it was cut in dough stage. No oats for me. rick


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> Yeah, don't think I would have any market for sudan here and my dad and I made a pact when I was young to never plant oat hay again- was bloody georgeous and sold to the feed store for a good price, BUT, we fought rats and mice in the barn for about 10 years afterwards. They loved that stuff, nests in every bale and it was cut in dough stage. No oats for me. rick


 I understand why you got turned off of oat hay with all the rodents it draws if it is cut after the milk stage. Year before last that very thing happened to me....I had a big pile of hay that had to be forked into the baler just to get it out of the barn.

The trick is to cut it before the milk stage....at that point there will be no grain in the bales and no rats and mice will be draw to it anymore than regular grass hay. I like to cut it as soon as the head emerges when it is pollinating.....it makes much better quality hay at this stage than it does at the dough stage....at that point it is getting to be more like straw. The oat hay cut at this stage made some of the prettier hay in my barn....it is the color of new money.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

That's interesting. Back in the day the word was to cut at early dough stage for maximum nutrient value. I can remember a tongue lashing a worker got on an adjacent farm when the farm manager came out to an oat field being cut with a 666, sickle and trailing crimper-all were white from cutting in the peak of milk stage. What a mess that was.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

By the dough stage most of the nutrition has moved into the grain and the straw is more of a filler....by cutting earlier the nutrition is still in the stem and leaf. Cutting in the boot stage would be even better nutrition wise than after the head emerges but the yield would be considerably less. Oats are just like cool season grasses....the earlier you cut the higher quality. When I cut my oat hay the haybine turned lemon yellow from the pollen of the oats....wish I had took a picture of it.


----------

