# Information on Land Rental



## KY_Greenhorn

Hay (;-)) figured I'd jump on here and see what kind of information I can gather, what I need to know, what questions to ask, how to offer, what's typical of land rentals, etc. Please bare with me as I am completely new to anything other than boarding horses.  Please feel free to talk to me like I'm 2- well maybe not exactly like I'm 2, but I know ZERO about the hay / crops / cattle business (including terminology)!

So my question revolves around what kind of rent is one looking at, what is expected of the landlord, what is expected of the leasee, etc for crop, hay or cattle land? I am relocating to the east side of KY, Mt Sterling area. (Hopefully, deal isn't done yet, need to find out the answers to these questions first.) I am looking at buying land for my horses and maybe a few boarders. Currently the place that I have found is about double what I will "need." I was wondering if I could make back any of my mortgage payments, or stock my barn with hay for the winter, if I rented out what I didn't need to another farmer. I think the land is fairly nice grass land currently, doesn't look like a lot of weeds, and it has recently been hayed as there are rounds sitting in the field (cow or horse I do not know). I know hay is one of the cheaper crops but I think I like the idea of keeping it hay as one, it already appears to be, two, it would benefit my horses if I could get some bales, three, we wouldn't need to reseed if we wanted to take the land back for pasture, four, chemicals and maintenance seems less, and I'm sure I could keep going  Tobacco is a big crop in the area and as the property has an old tobacco barn I think I would be able to get better money but it would also ruin what is already seemingly established and have to be reestablished if ever made pasture again. Is there more money in renting cow pasture than crops? There would need to be additional fencing put up to make it a livestock field and I feel like the more cows that are around, the more flies they attract to the horses...

Anyway, to make a long story even longer (I literally know nothing, I want to try to be as clear as possible so the answers can be most helpful ), does anybody know how you go about finding farmers who want to rent land in the area? What kind of reasonable rent would I be looking at per acre (I'm thinking something around 30 acres to lease, the property is just shy of 60)? What type of terms are fairly normal? What are the difference between a straight up rent and a share deal where I would get some bales out of it? What responsibilities would I have as the land owner? What type of insurance would one need to carry? So as you can see, I have a bunch of random questions. Anything you can offer that I might have not even thought about would be appreciated too!

Thank you!

P.S. As an aside, normally hay would be cut twice a year, or three times in a good year? Is the large equipment only brought out to the farm for cutting or is there maintenance I don't know about (ie would we be bothered by renters always popping in and out or would they be expected by infrequently?)


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## Vol

Your best option would be to talk with the folks at your local NRCS office about land rents....as each area is vastly different and that way you could get specific "local" information. It takes a lot of money in equipment investment to be able to make quality hay in a timely fashion. Equipment is very expensive and can be expensive to maintain if one is not capable of some maintenance.

Going into a land investment like your situation, I would factor "zero" in for mortgage payments from land production.....that way you will not be disappointed when things do not work out as hoped. In due time it might be possible for some income, but at the present time you have so many unknown factors that it would be illogical to hedge at this point.

Agriculture is currently at a lower point on the income graph. This will change....but not overnight.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Excellent advice ^^^ and welcome to haytalk greenhorn......good luck on your venture


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## Farmerbrown2

Remember that in farming don't count your eggs before they hatch. I remember years ago some land changed hands around here and new landlord decided to get more rent from someone else,so the guy that was farming it sprayed whole farm with roundup just so the new guy couldn't get his two year old alfalfa stand.


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## Tim/South

I agree with what has been said concerning expected income. The cost to keep the 30 acre piece of property in good condition costs more than most consider. Contact NRCS or the local Extension Agent and see what is normal for that area.

You either mow it to keep the weeds down, put horses or cattle on it or have it cut for hay.

I have over 100 acres of free lease hay ground under the agreement that I keep the ground healthy. I spray for weeds, lime and fertilize. One property I give the land owner 5 rolls of hay each year for her horse.

The sad part is all of these land owners sought me, I did not go looking. In most cases the previous person had taken hay and not returned nutrients and depleted the soil. Then they left.

I have one 65 acre place where I was given a lifetime free lease. I in turn spent around 10 K to make the place productive for me. It will take years before I break even on that.

In a lot of cases land is more of a liability trying to keep it in production and looking nice. Depends on how much Ag there is locally and the demand for the hay or cattle grazing rights.


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## Lostin55

To answer a couple of specific questions, and like mentioned above your area will differ, around here land rents for $100 - 125/ acre for productive farm ground. That amount basically covers irrigation and taxes. It is break even at best and mostly used by hay guys for crop rotation only.
The second answer is that when renting out pasture, it goes for anywhere from $15 -25/ AUM. AUM stands for animal unit per month. It represents one animal, or one cow calf pair, for one month.


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## r82230

Tim/South said:


> I have one 65 acre place where I was given a lifetime free lease. I in turn spent around 10 K to make the place productive for me. It will take years before I break even on that.


Tim,

Depending upon your age who is getting the 'better' end of stick on this one, as my late Dad would say.  But I have to admit, I if was in your shoes, I would have done the same. I believe in anytime you make (and leave) the world better, it's all good.

Larry


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## KY_Greenhorn

Thanks all for the input! So is the upkeep of the land (irrigation, fertilizer, etc) GENERALLY on the land owner? And the farmer with all the heavy equipment just comes in to cut and bale? I guess I'm less interested in getting a monthly income but feel if someone could come in and hay the land I don't need as pasture, I could get some bales out of it as well to get me through winter until spring grass comes back. That's as good as pay day as the horses are going to have to eat!  So it sounds like either trying to find any arrangement where someone farms it and we get a certain yield as payment would be the best option. Though the cows do sound like the most lucrative at $15/head per month...


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## swmnhay

KY_Greenhorn said:


> Thanks all for the input! So is the upkeep of the land (irrigation, fertilizer, etc) GENERALLY on the land owner? And the farmer with all the heavy equipment just comes in to cut and bale? I guess I'm less interested in getting a monthly income but feel if someone could come in and hay the land I don't need as pasture, I could get some bales out of it as well to get me through winter until spring grass comes back. That's as good as pay day as the horses are going to have to eat!  So it sounds like either trying to find any arrangement where someone farms it and we get a certain yield as payment would be the best option. Though the cows do sound like the most lucrative at $15/head per month...


Rents and rental agreements are regional.Huge price differences across the country.You need to get some local prices before you decide things.


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## KY_Greenhorn

swmnhay said:


> Rents and rental agreements are regional.Huge price differences across the country.You need to get some local prices before you decide things.


I was really hoping to hear from someone in the Lexington/Mt Sterling area but the input from around the country has been great!


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## swmnhay

KY_Greenhorn said:


> I was really hoping to hear from someone in the Lexington/Mt Sterling area but the input from around the country has been great!


Local Extension Office should be able to help you on local rental rates.


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## Tim/South

KY_Greenhorn said:


> Thanks all for the input! So is the upkeep of the land (irrigation, fertilizer, etc) GENERALLY on the land owner? And the farmer with all the heavy equipment just comes in to cut and bale? I guess I'm less interested in getting a monthly income but feel if someone could come in and hay the land I don't need as pasture, I could get some bales out of it as well to get me through winter until spring grass comes back. That's as good as pay day as the horses are going to have to eat!  So it sounds like either trying to find any arrangement where someone farms it and we get a certain yield as payment would be the best option. Though the cows do sound like the most lucrative at $15/head per month...


The land owners have no financial obligation on any of my free leases. They are with me when I take soil samples. I pay to have it analyzed and give them a copy. I then give them a copy of the lime and fertilizer bills. This lets them see my inputs and keeps them from believing I am getting rich baling their ground.

Pasture rents here are normally $10 per acre. Some get $20 if they have a really nice pasture and fence. BTW it is also the renters responsibility to keep fences in repair.

I had one place I cut on shares. An older gent had 30 acres of fescue that made 5 rolls per acre. He paid the fertilizer cost and I made the hay on halves. He sold his share of the hay and did well. My half was 2.5 rolls per acre which is all I get on some of my Bahia hay ground.

I had to let it go. Fescue tested 90% ergot endophyte and he was a die hard emotional democrat, which are about the same in my book.


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## Tim/South

r82230 said:


> Tim,
> 
> Depending upon your age who is getting the 'better' end of stick on this one, as my late Dad would say.  But I have to admit, I if was in your shoes, I would have done the same. I believe in anytime you make (and leave) the world better, it's all good.
> 
> Larry


I looked at the property and asked myself what would I do if it belonged to me? The answer was to make it grow good hay.

Basically the land is mine to treat as my own and do not have to pay the taxes.


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## Lostin55

Again, around here, with the landowner paying all costs for fertilizer and irrigation, a common arrangement is 50/ 50 split on the hay. I have done a few jobs that way. I cut, rake if necessary, bale and stack the hay for 50%.


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## KY_Greenhorn

Thanks Tim! I want you as my renter! ;-)

Good to know Lostin55! I'm hoping the KY area is more like Tim in AL than you in WY  Fingers crossed!


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## swmnhay

Here on a share rent fertilizer would be split 50-50.Chem would also be 50-50.

I've pd for 100% of the seed cost with a 5 yr lease.

The guy wanted out of the lease yr 4 because he thought I was makeing to much money off it!!!


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## Tim/South

swmnhay said:


> The guy wanted out of the lease yr 4 because he thought I was making to much money off it!!!


I have seen that happen here.

A friend rented 40 acres from a lady. 20 Acres was in nice Tiffton 44 Bermuda at one time. It had been neglected and the 44 was sparse. My friend limed, sprayed and fertilized. He baled what grew for cow hay. The third year it was beautiful. He square baled it and sold for horse hay. The lady owner was told how much money he was making. She went from $400 per year to $800. My friend let it go.

Another guy picked it up and cut for three years and put nothing back. It is a run down sage grass field now.

Hay farming looks easy from the road.


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## swmnhay

Tim/South said:


> My friend let it go.
> Another guy picked it up and cut for three years and put nothing back. It is a run down sage grass field now.
> 
> Hay farming looks easy from the road.


Yea,I did a good job on the hay,marketed some of it for him and got him a good price for it.Now he has a mess.He had winter rye he baled this spring and never got anything planted back into it.It is now a field of pigweed and waterhemp.

Before all of this I custom Hayed it but it took me 3 yrs to get pd.


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## threshing_machine

I'm also a newbie, other than helping put up hay in this field about an hour northwest of Sioux Falls years ago (see attached), so would appreciate any input specific to my area. I've got about 50 acres of hayland, with perhaps an additional 10-20 acres. The land was cattle-grazed over the past few years, and I'm looking into hay harvesting. Some of it I will do myself, and some will be custom done.

It has gone untouched in 2016. It may be leased out again in the future for cattle, but much fence work will need done prior.

I know my grandfather used this land for alfalfa years ago.

1. Would harvesting the hay this season likely be cost-effective or even profitable? (If assessable from the attached photo).

2. Other than spraying for weeds after the first freeze, and fertilizing in the spring, what actions might be recommended to prepare for the 2017 season?


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## r82230

threshing_machine said:


> 1. Would harvesting the hay this season likely be cost-effective or even profitable? (If assessable from the attached photo).
> 2. Other than spraying for weeds after the first freeze, and fertilizing in the spring, what actions might be recommended to prepare for the 2017 season?


Soil test now.

Larry


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## Swv.farmer

KY_Greenhorn said:


> I was really hoping to hear from someone in the Lexington/Mt Sterling area but the input from around the country has been great!


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## Swv.farmer

I live in va but have family in that part of the country and they usually put hay up on the two third scale for 100 rolled they take 66 give you 33 they supplie the amendments and equipment and labor.


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## mlappin

swmnhay said:


> Here on a share rent fertilizer would be split 50-50.Chem would also be 50-50.
> 
> I've pd for 100% of the seed cost with a 5 yr lease.
> 
> The guy wanted out of the lease yr 4 because he thought I was makeing to much money off it!!!


Dad has a guy like that, electrical contractor, took years to get him to believe we can only sell the crop for what the markets are paying, finally got him to believe that then took another few year to get him convinced the farmer pays the freight as well on inputs and the crop he has to sell.


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## endrow

We fought like heck to rent land here last couple years finally gave up and just find what we had. It's getting like back in the day again people calling to see if I would Farm their land


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## swmnhay

endrow said:


> We fought like heck to rent land here last couple years finally gave up and just find what we had. It's getting like back in the day again people calling to see if I would Farm their land


It hasn't reached the level of low rent in the 80's yet.There was alot of ads then for land to rent.Now there is still more land wanted adds HERE.

Pretty common here to have 25-35 people call on land that comes up for rent,last spring anyway.


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