# Custom baling barrier to entry?



## sciafarmer

Hello all,

First off, not new to farming but have not "farmed" for several years. I work with and chat with them daily, however am not an actual farmer. That said grew up on one and know what goes into an operation.

Long story short, always loved to bale growing up. Didn't matter if I was bouncing up and down on the rack at 2 a.m or in the cab, I have always enjoyed it.

Fast forward 20 years, have an itch to get into some custom baling. Not only as a an extra revenue stream but something I can do after work and something the oldest boy can also help out with, who also loves anything machinery related.

Living in the northwest corner of IA, there is some hay but a TON of stalk baling that goes on. I know of two large operators that told me they would give me all the work I wanted during the stalk baling season.

I guess what I am wondering is this something that others here would tell me is doable? I am not looking to stick huge money into this. Was thinking maybe an older 150 hp tractor and a good used round baler to start out.

Do most custom balers also rake everything? I am guessing most of all farmers would want the guy baling his crop to rake it as well, and probably cut it if doing hay?

Here in this area there are literally thousands of stalk bales that go up every year. I am not looking for a full time job as I already have one, but I do have the ability to take time off in the fall, and could do so during hay season as well.

Maybe just dreaming here but it's something I need to explore to see if it's worth my time and money or just a fleeting thought.

Any input/question would be really appreciated, thanks.


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## Guest

Typically if you custom bale guys will want you to custom rake. If someone else rakes for you theyll want the balin work too.
Custom baling is good cash flow but it is very hard to make hay witha full time job. There is so many times where you think hay will be dry and its not or there is no way it should be dry and it is. This is why it makes it hard to work full time and bale hay. You gotta be there when its ready no matter what time it is. People can get upset if thier hay is dry and your not there to bale b4 a rain. Not saying it cant be done just something to think about.


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## Gearclash

sciafarmer, welcome to haytalk. I am in NW Iowa, and in the business of custom round baling stalks. I do about 2000-2500 a year.

You really don't need 150 hp to run a round baler, but 150 would be nice to run a stalk chopper. Pick a tractor/s that you can tolerate to sit in for 12 hours a day.

For a baler, JD 568 or 569, Vermeer 605SM, New Holland BR780A or BR7090 would be my recommendations. Anything older will struggle in stalks.

I have a windrowing stalk chopper and a rake, what I use depends on the conditions. I have found that I depend more and more on the rake, and am finding that anything less than a heavy duty high cap can't cope with constant work in stalks.

Biggest thing about baling in NWIA is that the competition in pricing keeps it from being a get rich quick scheme. One of the better ways to make a profit is to be able to do your own repairs and maintenance, as there will be plenty of it baling stalks.


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## swmnhay

Just to add to Gearclash who summed it up pretty well.I'm just into Mn so know the area well also.

Compition is very severe in that area.It has some of the lowest custom baleing rates that I have heard anywhere.And if you don't get there when they want you they WILL call someone else.

I doubt you will find much hay to bale.First off a over abundance of balers around for cornstalks.And actualy most hay is trucked into the area out of the west.What is there is mostly chopped for dairies.

Talkin to one feedlot guy this fall he said the heck with baleing his own for what the custom guys are doing it for in NW Iowa

There is not 1,000's of cornstalk bales in NW Iowa.It would be millions.LOL


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## sciafarmer

Appreciate the info. I did wonder if 150 hp was more than I needed but you do raise a good point about chopping stalks. I am partial to JD, particularly anything 40, 50 or 55 series. Truth be known have never actually round baled a single bale but being farmer/mechanically inclined(day job is fixing things) am not worried much about that.

Your point on making a quick buck is well taken, and I am not looking for easy money, it usually is not that easy if it appears it is before one actually does something.

Another thing I was thinking of doing was asking around to see if there was someone around Sioux or Lyon county who might be looking for a guy(like myself) to run a baler every so often. That would sure be a good way to find out if it was something I really wanted to invest in. That said, I am happiest sitting on any type of equipment doing something so doubt that will be an issue.

As the poster from Ohio mentioned I can see hay being a challenge with a full time job, not that there would not be opportunities.


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## sciafarmer

swmnhay said:


> Just to add to Gearclash who summed it up pretty well.I'm just into Mn so know the area well also.
> 
> Compition is very severe in that area.It has some of the lowest custom baleing rates that I have heard anywhere.And if you don't get there when they want you they WILL call someone else.
> 
> I doubt you will find much hay to bale.First off a over abundance of balers around for cornstalks.And actualy most hay is trucked into the area out of the west.What is there is mostly chopped for dairies.
> 
> Talkin to one feedlot guy this fall he said the heck with baleing his own for what the custom guys are doing it for in NW Iowa
> 
> There is not 1,000's of cornstalk bales in NW Iowa.It would be millions.LOL





swmnhay said:


> Not sure about millions swmnhay but tens of thousands! The few times I have sat and watched some fellows in stalks they hardly get the clutch popped and they are ejecting another one, so maybe millions is not too far off! No doubt thanks to all that BT corn. Several years ago worked at a local implement dealer, and it was kind of neat to see the way tillage tools had evolved just over the span of my working there-biggest thing being weight of course.
> 
> I guess looking back regarding the hay aspect, I can see that point of view as well. I knew one old timer who did alfalfa start to finish but he was a minority and mentioned several times to me that guys just don't plant the stuff like they used to do. He has since quit, sold the equipment and told me recently that while it provided money it was a lot of work/time and he still ended up with no business to sell and equipment that had seen it's better days.


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## swmnhay

There are a lot of guys bale over 10,000 bales for 1 feedlot.


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## IAhaymakr

Custom round baling in NWIA is what economists refer to as a "mature industry". Which basically means that intense competition has all but eliminated profit potential. And while competition can be great for improving efficiency, I don't think there is much to be gained any more. Most of the big end users have their own equipment, but if not are able to command a very low rate from baler guys looking for big volume. 
Since you already have work lined up, give it a shot. My only advice is try to do it without borrowed money. I saw an outfit running this fall with forty year old case tractors (cheap) and newer Deere balers. Not much comfort there, but they might make some money if they can keep repairs down.


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## sciafarmer

IAhaymakr said:


> Custom round baling in NWIA is what economists refer to as a "mature industry". Which basically means that intense competition has all but eliminated profit potential. And while competition can be great for improving efficiency, I don't think there is much to be gained any more. Most of the big end users have their own equipment, but if not are able to command a very low rate from baler guys looking for big volume.
> Since you already have work lined up, give it a shot. My only advice is try to do it without borrowed money. I saw an outfit running this fall with forty year old case tractors (cheap) and newer Deere balers. Not much comfort there, but they might make some money if they can keep repairs down.


Appreciate the insight. I do realize I have some homework to do as far as putting a pencil to this is concerned. Like any business, I am guessing it is going to boil down to what is my ratio of hours spent baling vs. profit. I know what I get here at work is not a bad wage at all, but would have a hard time working for much less than I get. Not afraid of putting in some long days, since my job is one that actually gives me more PTO than I use in a year, but if it's a somewhat lateral move it won't make much sense. I plan to do as many repairs myself as possible, so there is a price on that time as well, versus being at home or doing something else.

Can anyone here offer any insight into how they figure what they charge? I am guessing most charge by the bale, however that varies if it needs to be chopped, raked and baled versus just raked/baled, and then do some guys also try to break it down further into what it works out to paying yourself per hour?

I have seen some figures that vary quite a bit but it appears it's pretty much fixed here in my corner of the state.

By the way there are some pretty impressive equipment lists posted under members signature lines!


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## swmnhay

For a 5x 6 bale with netwrap I charge $14.I supply the V rake and they rake in front of me usually.I don't do all that much because like Dan said the market is full of balers.Guys either bought their own or someone is willing to work for less.

Most guys I talk to are in the $12-14 range.Maybe a discount for large volume.

I've seen adds of guys willing to bale for $9 a bale.And heard of guys getting $17

Everyone charges by the bale.

A lot of guys are getting chopping hds on combines or rake threw standing stalks.

I like to use my rake knowing it is set for my baler.Sucks to go bale stalks and they made a 2' wide windrow.I think most custom guys do the rakeing themselves.The rake alone can be costly.Some rakes can cost 35K plus.Can get buy with a used 12 wheel v rake for around 8K.

You could spend 100K easily getting started.Bare bones 50K would not get you much.


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## barnrope

What do you suppose the average custom rate for raking and baling 5x6 cornstalk bales for customers who want at least 200 bales made is in Sioux County or in Northwest Iowa in general?

I charge $12 to bale, $6/acre to rake, or $2/ bale, whichever seems more fair. On big jobs I rake for the chance to bale. I think I finally got done baling the day before Thanksgiving, unless someone else calls......

If you could bale 2000 plus stalks in the fall you will be able to invest in good equipment, if you don't pay yourself much out of the baling enterprise. I started off round baling on a small level 8 years ago and gradually worked up. Low interest rates have helped me acquire decent equipment. Haven't really made much profit at it, but assets increase every time I make a payment on equipment. After 10 years in the custom baling business and personal hay and stalk baling I hope to have close to a quarter of a million in equipment paid for. I would think there would be room for one more custom operator over your way, but you'll need to be efficient, on time, courteous, and likeable!


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## IAhaymakr

barnrope said:


> What do you suppose the average custom rate for raking and baling 5x6 cornstalk bales for customers who want at least 200 bales made is in Sioux County or in Northwest Iowa in general?
> 
> I charge $12 to bale, $6/acre to rake, or $2/ bale, whichever seems more fair. On big jobs I rake for the chance to bale. I think I finally got done baling the day before Thanksgiving, unless someone else calls......
> 
> If you could bale 2000 plus stalks in the fall you will be able to invest in good equipment, if you don't pay yourself much out of the baling enterprise. I started off round baling on a small level 8 years ago and gradually worked up. Low interest rates have helped me acquire decent equipment. Haven't really made much profit at it, but assets increase every time I make a payment on equipment. After 10 years in the custom baling business and personal hay and stalk baling I hope to have close to a quarter of a million in equipment paid for. I would think there would be room for one more custom operator over your way, but you'll need to be efficient, on time, courteous, and likeable!


The rate here varies depending on what needs to be done, but it's pretty common to shred, rake and bale for $13. 
I have to be honest with you here, in that I don't see how you figure two thousand bales per year will be enough to service dept, cover expenses, and replace equipment as needed. The only way I see it working well is to put at least 7500 bales thru each year, per machine. It's simply the only way to make it a worthwhile venture. The more bales you do the lower your variable cost will be per bale. Most of the guys doing big numbers are running one rake for two balers, which really helps cut costs as well.
Two thousand bales won't even make a payment on a new machine, let alone buy a rake, a shredder, and a couple tractors.


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## barnrope

It really depends on what equipment you buy. A good used late model baler with say...10,000 bales through it will still have a lot of life left in it with good maintenance. An older, not so pretty V rake, a couple of "less comfortable" tractors, ect. is what I am assuming an entry level, part time guy would be going for. It might be a stretch for a guy with a job to make more than 2000 bales. That was where I was coming from on that post.

Honestly, it took 6 years of baling before I reached that 7500 bales/year mark. That is a lot of bales, especially for a newcomer.

If you have to shred the stalks and include that in your baling price of $13/bale along with raking, I can see more where you are coming from. A stalk chopper/ shredder is a costly piece of equipment to operate and maintain.

If I am going to a farm that is not shredded, I just rake the standing stalks and bale. Seems like the guys around here that want their stalks shredded will do it themselves. The rest don't seem to mind. It does take a good rake to be able to stand up raking through standing stalks.


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## sciafarmer

I'm not looking to get anything new, that much I knew before even considering this. Right now the options I am exploring are simply used pieces so I don't have a ton of overhead stuck into something if it does not pan out. I'm not afraid of a thirty year old tractor or baler with 10000 bales thru it, as long as it's not something that screams "run away from me". I know that equipment is out there, if one is patient those implements are out there but not always in plain sight.

I was hoping to set a budget for around $70,000. I know this sounds low to you guys with hundreds of thousands worth of stuff, but keep in mind I am not the guy that would be baling 10000 plus bales/yr either. This to me would be more like a hobby that hopefully makes a little money. Being a former mechanic and a son that loves wrenches, would surely help costs in that area.

Let me ask the board this question if I may.

What is a good day baling? I'm sure that depends if one has to chop first but I will assume most of the time raking needs to happen.

How many bales do some of you get done in a day? I am just talking the windrow, not raking beforehand. I know there are variables but I was just hoping for a ball park figure.

I would also be curious if posters think this is a waste of time and capital since I am not talking big volume. I appreciate honest replies and don't worry you won't hurt my feelings, that is why I signed up here!


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## swmnhay

The most I've baled in a day is 535.It was 1st cut hay and all on 1 farm.170 acres.14 hrs.38 bph avg includeing lunch breaks and 1/2 hr down time.

I figure 300 bales a day is a dang good day.There is a lot of limiting factors baleing.In the fall baleing cornstalks a lot of times it may be to wet till start baleing until afternoon.Sizes of fields and rd time also limit what you can bale in a day.

I figure 30 bales an hr when figuring time I need doing a job.That includes rd time,lunch time,etc

You could start up for 70K easily enough.I'd skip the shreader if at all possible.Let them shread it,or just rake threw standing stalks.Alot are also going to chopping corn heads.

The biggest thing would be actualy getting the jobs.Very competitive in that area,alot of custom guys already.


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## swmnhay

70K Startup.

25K baler
25K baler tractor
10K High capacity wheel rake
10K rake tractor.


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## sciafarmer

swmnhay said:


> The most I've baled in a day is 535.It was 1st cut hay and all on 1 farm.170 acres.14 hrs.38 bph avg includeing lunch breaks and 1/2 hr down time.
> 
> I figure 300 bales a day is a dang good day.There is a lot of limiting factors baleing.In the fall baleing cornstalks a lot of times it may be to wet till start baleing until afternoon.Sizes of fields and rd time also limit what you can bale in a day.
> 
> I figure 30 bales an hr when figuring time I need doing a job.That includes rd time,lunch time,etc
> 
> You could start up for 70K easily enough.I'd skip the shreader if at all possible.Let them shread it,or just rake threw standing stalks.Alot are also going to chopping corn heads.
> 
> The biggest thing would be actualy getting the jobs.Very competitive in that area,alot of custom guys already.


That is the thing that concerns me the most. I do know some guys as mentioned earlier that did say they would give me as much as I wanted but we all know that to rely on two guys is just a recipe for disaster. I suppose word of mouth goes a long ways. One thing I have going for me is I could take three or four weeks off during the fall to bale, and if there are some days that I can't due to precip or whatever I can just go in and get some other work done.It all sounds like a good idea as I sit here in the warmth of my house when it's cold and blowing outside but I have to make sure it's a worthwhile venture. I have gleaned a ton of info just in this thread alone and appreciate the insight/advice.


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## barnrope

On any good sized corn stalk baling project you will find that you want to have a person baling and a person raking. If you have to rake everything and then go bale it all up it will get to be a long day! The most bales I have gotten in a day was 740 in 14.5 hours, but I had another person raking ahead of me. I think if a person really tried to bale as many as they could in a day, and didn't take much for breaks, and if everything worked as it should they could get a lot more than that wrapped up in the same time. I have found it doesn't pay to push too hard. If you do something stupid like pull the hydraulic lever to dump the bale before it is wrapped you will regret it. Especially on a cold dark windy night.


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## Vol

barnrope said:


> I have found it doesn't pay to push too hard. If you do something stupid like pull the hydraulic lever to dump the bale before it is wrapped you will regret it.


Been there and have done that.

Regards, Mike


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## Gearclash

> 70K Startup.
> 
> 25K baler
> 25K baler tractor
> 10K High capacity wheel rake
> 10K rake tractor.


 This is close to what I started with, 2008-09.

23.5K baler, 1500 bales, 2005 model.

33.5K tractor, 3800 hrs,2000 model.

9K windrowing stalk chopper, 1998 model.

So about 66K to start, 2008.

In 2009 bought a hi cap rake, 8.3K new in the crate, but it was a 2007 they wanted to move.

I will say not to cut corners on the baler for sure, and also not on the rake. You will wear them out long before any decent used tractor.


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## swmnhay

Heck lets buy all new paint.

New tractor with IVT $175K
New baler with all the bells and whistles 60K
Rowse ultimate rake $35K
New rake tractor with IVT also $120K

Just kidding around but a guy can spend a fortune on eq in a hurry.Thats not includeing Stalk chopper,5th wheel trailers,Loader tractors,skid loaders,etc.


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## sciafarmer

Vol said:


> Been there and have done that.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Just a guess but that is a mistake you probably make once?


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## IAhaymakr

swmnhay said:


> Heck lets buy all new paint.New tractor with IVT $175KNew baler with all the bells and whistles 60KRowse ultimate rake $35KNew rake tractor with IVT also $120KJust kidding around but a guy can spend a fortune on eq in a hurry.Thats not includeing Stalk chopper,5th wheel trailers,Loader tractors,skid loaders,etc.


You're close on the tractor, but not quite there. The local Deere guy stopped by with a calendar yesterday and said if you want the tractor and baler that talk to each other and the driver only needs to steer, it will set you back a quarter million. Fun? Yes...Cost effective? Not likely.


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## sciafarmer

swmnhay said:


> 70K Startup.
> 
> 25K baler
> 25K baler tractor
> 10K High capacity wheel rake
> 10K rake tractor.


Another question for you guys, do you all own a separate tractor for just raking? I can see advantages for this such as something smaller that is more efficient for raking, but then it's another piece to maintain as well.

What would be some other pro's/con's to having a rake tractor?


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## Tim/South

sciafarmer said:


> Another question for you guys, do you all own a separate tractor for just raking? I can see advantages for this such as something smaller that is more efficient for raking, but then it's another piece to maintain as well.
> 
> What would be some other pro's/con's to having a rake tractor?


I use an old but reliable 40 horse tractor for raking. It is more nimble and burns less fuel. I can also have someone raking while I bale.


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## Gearclash

Don't go too small for pulling a rake in stalks. I would say not much less than 100 hp, espesially if you pull more than a 12 wheel rake. That said, if you are getting started in this buiness, see if you can loan your baler tractor to someone (trusted!)during the off season, who can in return loan you a tractor to rake with during the baling season. I did this to some extent for the first three years that I baled. I had one tractor, a baler, a stalk chopper, and a rake. Got real good at changing implements.


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## swmnhay

sciafarmer said:


> Another question for you guys, do you all own a separate tractor for just raking? I can see advantages for this such as something smaller that is more efficient for raking, but then it's another piece to maintain as well.
> What would be some other pro's/con's to having a rake tractor?


I'd say definatly have a rake tractor.You need to keep the baler moveing as much as possible so rakeing and baleing with same tractor would cut down on bales per day a lot.Sometimes you need to rake directly in front of baler in windy conditions.And it don't take a lot of a tractor to pull a rake.Get a older used 100hp for around 7K.Cab and heater be a must baleing stalks.LOL.


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## sciafarmer

Sounds like next fall there is a good chance I will have the opportunity to bale for a guy using his equipment. He puts up around 3000/yr. It was kind of a word of mouth thing but I think I am nuts to not give it a try. His guys don't like baling that much and this gives me the chance to try it out, still get paid a little something and not stick my neck out there too far if I decide the heck with it(although I can't see a guy like me NOT liking it)


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## swmnhay

sciafarmer said:


> Sounds like next fall there is a good chance I will have the opportunity to bale for a guy using his equipment. He puts up around 3000/yr. It was kind of a word of mouth thing but I think I am nuts to not give it a try. His guys don't like baling that much and this gives me the chance to try it out, still get paid a little something and not stick my neck out there too far if I decide the heck with it(although I can't see a guy like me NOT liking it)


Sounds like a good way to get into it.Learn all the ropes.Maybe after a yr they would sell you the baler and you could bale for them & others.


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## mlappin

sciafarmer said:


> Another question for you guys, do you all own a separate tractor for just raking? I can see advantages for this such as something smaller that is more efficient for raking, but then it's another piece to maintain as well.
> What would be some other pro's/con's to having a rake tractor?


I have a separate tractor for each operation, spreads the hours over more equipment,saves hooking/unhooking and definitely saves wearing tires out roading the same tractor all over the county trying to do all the operations with it.


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## slowzuki

I started out with a single tractor and appreciated the reduced time for maintenance and less cost for insurance. Over time I've come to want multiple tractors and sized so they can sub each other out when one goes down.

Nothing like time to bale and a fuel filter and fuel line plug up on the baler tractor.


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## ontario hay man

I rake with a ac 5050. What do you guys do with the corn stalk bales? Feed or bedding? Its almost unheard of up here. Maybe I should do it before anybody else does lol.


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## swmnhay

ontario hay man said:


> I rake with a ac 5050. What do you guys do with the corn stalk bales? Feed or bedding? Its almost unheard of up here. Maybe I should do it before anybody else does lol.


The corn stalk bales are used for both bedding and feed here.The majority for bedding.

It's a proven fact that fat cattle gain much better if bedded vs laying on cold ground.And we have a lot of monoslope type cattle barns here that take a lot of bedding.

Some stalks are ground and mixed into the ration instead of hay or for stalk does not requiring as rich a feed.You can grind stalks and mix some distilers with it to make a ration for stock cows.

So there are many different ways it is used.


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## hillside hay

Owning or having access to backup equipment while doing custom work would be imperative for me. Cornstalk baling seems as though it would be pretty hard on the gear. Never having done it myself I can only speculate to that end. I have,however, been all set to do a big job- break down - find that the part can't get there for 3 days- rain coming. The customer wants it done and couldn't care less what issues you are having. Fortunately I have access to rent a tractor and baler pretty cheap. The rake and mowing equipment usually can be fixed in under an hour with plenty of backup parts on hand. My rule of thumb for custom work-" Maintenance maintenance maintenance" Every time a piece of gear is operated completely go through it stem to stern before and after. Remember grease is cheaper than u-joints and bearings.


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## hillside hay

A question. I'm assuming you would want a baler with crop-cutter to take on a cornstalk baling operation?


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## swmnhay

hillside hay said:


> A question. I'm assuming you would want a baler with crop-cutter to take on a cornstalk baling operation?


Most do not use a crop-cutter on the baler.alot of them use a bale processor to bed or tub grind for feed.

For lg rd bales HERE.


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## hillside hay

Do they ever have issues getting a bale to start? Forgive my silly questions but like Ontario the baling of stalks is just not done here.


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## swmnhay

Yes it can be but usually means the baler is not up to snuff.It could be a number of things worn out pickup teeth,belts worn smooth,etc.

Newer balers have cornstalk specials with power feeder or rollers that help the stalks feed in.


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## Dapals

Hey, I am from Sioux County and I do custom baling of my own, all I can say is its who you know, I got lucky and had some neighbors who wanted to hire me out before I even considers doing it. (they weren't little farms either) Decent equipment helps, I've been hired on a few jobs because of how much newer my equipment is then than another guys. I charge competitively, i feel. Also I own my side rake, and either have my own guy running it, or have the guy I'm baling for run it (with their own tractor) for $1-3 a bale depends on the year. There is alot of competition, but the main thing is who you know.


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## deadmoose

Dapals said:


> Hey, I am from Sioux County and I do custom baling of my own, all I can say is its who you know, I got lucky and had some neighbors who wanted to hire me out before I even considers doing it. (they weren't little farms either) Decent equipment helps, I've been hired on a few jobs because of how much newer my equipment is then than another guys. I charge competitively, i feel. Also I own my side rake, and either have my own guy running it, or have the guy I'm baling for run it (with their own tractor) for $1-3 a bale depends on the year. There is alot of competition, but the main thing is who you know.


True in many facets of life. Who you know can be much more important than what you know.


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## barnrope

With such a late harvest, corn stalk baling might have a very short window this year. Guys are just thinking about starting to combine soybeans around here. Traditionally, corn harvest follows beans in the upper midwest.

There have been years when snow came and stayed all winter the first week of November. :huh:


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## deadmoose

barnrope said:


> With such a late harvest, corn stalk baling might have a very short window this year. Guys are just thinking about starting to combine soybeans around here. Traditionally, corn harvest follows beans in the upper midwest.
> 
> There have been years when snow came and stayed all winter the first week of November. :huh:


Quit saying 4 letter words starting in S. We do not need any of that til Christmas.


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## Hokelund Farm

Is a V-Rake in cornstalks a must have item?


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## swmnhay

Hokelund Farm said:


> Is a V-Rake in cornstalks a must have item?


Ni its not a must have but it sure speeds things up and is much easier to make the correct sized windrow,width.Esp if someone is operating the rake that doesn't have a clue how to make a windrow correctly for the baler.


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