# Hesston 4500 Small Square Bailer Knotter Tying Issue



## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

I am fairly new to making hay. I just upgraded my small square baler to a hesston 4500. I was leary of buying the hesston since everyone around me uses john deere or New Holland. The baler had been sitting for a couple of years but I seen it in action the last time it was used and it worked good. I brought it home and tore open a round bale and rebaled it. It will not tie a knot at all. Not even try to tie.

I am not very well versed or familiar with these knotters, but it leave two semi ragged ends where the knot should be and leaves 4-6" pieces of twine in the knotter area. Almost like it is cutting twice and not trying to tie. I do not know where to start to look. I thought maybe if I ran a few bales through it it would shine up some rust on it's own, but that hasnt happened. The knotters were well greased and do not look all rusty. Once in awhile it seems as though it may be holding one of the pieces of twine but it still will not tie.

Does anyone have any good suggestions on where to start? Remember i;m not very well versed so you may have to spell it out some.

Thanks in advance.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Get someone who is familiar with a small square baler to watch it go into the tying cycle while you drive the tractor. It sounds as if it is easily diagnosed since neither knotter is working as it should. Was the baler stored inside?

Regards, Mike


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## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

It was not stored inside, just under cover.

I have tried 2 of the local farmers and they both said that it is altogether different than their balers. Both have been farming for 40+ years, but they are also against hesston balers.

I ordered the book for it from Agco but who knows when it will get here and I would like to get it fixed.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Something could be rusted and not allowing the knotters to operate as they should. The knotters work just like other small square balers. Your probably better off without those two fellas you tried to enlist for help....preconceived notions are difficult to overcome. Hesstons are outstanding balers and once you get yours going you will find that out. Keep searching for someone to help you. Your baler ties just like other balers basically.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Vol said:


> Get someone who is familiar with a small square baler to watch it go into the tying cycle while you drive the tractor. It sounds as if it is easily diagnosed since neither knotter is working as it should. Was the baler stored inside?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Agreed but cycling it by hand will probably work just as well and give the person doing the diagnosing a chance to directly point things out to chummins. If it's really simple it should show up the first time it's tripped.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

There are a couple really well done YouTube videos on knotters. I referenced them when I bought my baler.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Roll it through a cycle by hand and watch it. That said, if it isn't doing any knots at all the problem is likely in the twine finger mechanism; likely it is hung up which will effect both knotters.

The twine finger is what sits underneath the knotter and pulls the two twines back so the billhook will catch them and twist them into the knot. You may have one that popped over center, could have a broken return spring, could be a broken cam roller, or the bearings may be seized up.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Other things I need to ask:

- after a cycle, is there twine still strung through the needle and held in the twine disc?

-this is both knotters, right?

-are you using round baler twine?


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## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

Thanks for all the quick replies. I hope to check it out tonight and see if I can see anything. There are not a whole lot of farmers in my area to even take a look at it and I can't find anyone that works on balers either.

I didn't know you could roll it over by hand and make it cycle. Do I just turn the pto shaft over by hand with the bale chamber empty?

Twine is always still strung through the needle. Once in awhile one side will stay in the twine disc, but usually it does not and I can just pull it back out near the needle and tie it off as if starting a new bale.

Both knotters are the same. I have yet to see anything that remotely resembles a knot on either knotter or either end of the twine. to me it seems as though the twine would be cut too short to even make a knot, maybe that's why there are 6" pieces of twine cut off and laying by the knotters?

I am using 9,000 sisal square baler twine.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

I'm going to back track on twine fingers, the more I thought about that I realized you should still be getting a knot in the top twine.... Assuming the top twine is ever in the twine disc to begin with. If you've never been able to get it to hold twine after a cycle, this may still be a problem.

Did the previous owner use plastic or sisal?

Where are you tying off the twine to rethread it?

Is the twine from the needle still caught in the bales or hanging free under the baler?

You can roll it by hand by turning the flywheel (may have to remove the shield), just trip the knotters and start turning the baler over. If there are no bales you may need to hook the twines off the rear of the chamber so they form a loop.


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Are you using new twine or is it some that was left in the baler? When I bought my baler the seller said "there's 2 brand new bales of twine in there so you should be good for a little bit". First 3 bales didn't tie. I put in new twine and made a couple hundred before another miss.


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## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

Maxzillian I think you nailed it with the twine fingers. They were a little sticky and I had to work them back and forth. After doing this I did get it to tie a few times. I was fighting the rain tonight so tomorrow I will have to try and run some hay through it.

The p.o. Used 9000 sisal, and I bought new twine to try in it this year. I'm tying off to the back of the guard that runs below the needles.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Well, if that isn't the only problem it must be one of them! I'm still scratching my head about how it's managing to cut off 4-6" scraps, but if I could explain everything there wouldn't be any fun in diagnosing these things. Still, if it's ever both knotters acting up, the twine fingers should be the first thing you ever check as they're the only common mechanism between both heads.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with knotters, but the reason I was asking about whether plastic was used is because sisal requires slightly different adjustments; usually a tighter twine disc and maybe a tighter billhook. It sounds like those should be all taken care of for you already.

Your tie off point should be just fine, as you probably already know you'll have to run one tie cycle to get the end of the twine held in the disc and then after that you should be able to start baling. Good luck tomorrow!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If the twine fingers were stuck while the baler was run, I'd have to believe that their linkage would have bent in the process. If everything works now, great. But if they still act up a bit, I'd look for something bent.


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## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

I was worried about something around the twine fingers being bent, but the needles just clear them and everything else is just out of the way.

I cycled it a few times last night just holding tension on the twine, similar to a bale but maybe not as much and it would tie but once in awhile the knot would not slip off the knotters.

Tonight after work I am going to tear a round bale apart and rebale it and see if it will tie if the rain holds off long enough. I'll update everyone on what happens. I'm also going to try and sharpen the twine knives some they seem dull to me.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Kind of hard to sharpen on the knotters. It is best to take them off for sharpening.....but if you take them off, you might as well replace them with new knives no more than they cost. But, if you don't have any, by all means sharpen them and put them back on.

Regards, Mike


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## 05chummins (Jun 6, 2017)

Thanks a lot for the help everyone! So far so good. I baled about 15 or so with it tonight and the only issue it had was it didn't cut the one side on the first run to string the knotters. After that everything worked good.

I'll probably put it to the test this weekend. It looks like we're going to finally get some dry weather.

Thanks again!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

You might want to look at the article Vol posted a day or so ago, I think was from Progressive Forage, written by Mike10. I don't know how to get you to the post, so maybe someone else will, that has more tech knowledge can. Any way Mike10 does a nice job of explaining knotter maintenance (IMHO), including sharping/replacing the knives.

Larry


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