# Haygrazer in sand?



## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I want to try to grow a crop of haygrazer this year. All I have is sand and I'm concerned about getting a stand. Plan on planting jackpot sorghum just don't want to waste my money if the stuff won't grow in sand. 
Thanks


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Should grow in sand, but don't lose all your moisture and make sure you'll have enough moisture to bring it up and get a stand...

Like everything else it needs water to produce; generally speaking the more rain you have (and the more regular it is without flooding you out) the more it will make... but sorghums, generally speaking, are more drought tolerant than a lot of other crops...

If you want a thicker, finer stemmed hay, it's better to plant it thick and cut it a little sooner... Of course the problem on sand is, the thicker you plant the more water it takes to make a crop, so you don't want to plant TOO thick for your soil and moisture conditions. Talk with a local agronomist or extension people to get recommendations for your climate and conditions. We like to plant thick and cut early, when it's about 3 feet high-- this gives a good yield while still having thinner stalks that are easier to dry for dry hay. Sorghum-sudan CAN get up to about 8-10 feet tall, which makes a LOT of tonnage (for best quality and absolute highest tonnage cut at early boot stage) BUT the stalks will be a LOT thicker and coarser-- fine for silage or ground feed but hard to dry and lower in palatability as ordinary dry hay. SO, it depends what you plan to do with it as to the best management practices for it.

Also, with the sorghums, you have to be careful of prussic acid... it's got a reputation of something of a boogeyman, but it's manageable if one knows about it and works around it... Prussic acid (hydrogen cyanide) is mainly a problem shortly after a frost or in the lush greenup following a severe dry spell when rains return. Sorghums, like corn, will roll their leaves in drought to conserve water, and when moisture returns it will have a rapid growth flush. This leads to the production of Prussic acid in the plants (as does cellular damage and recovery after a survivably frost). Hydrogen cyanide is one of the deadliest toxins known, but fortunately its quite volatile... when cut for dry hay, it will rapidly outgas from the stems and plant tissues as the forage dries down to make dry hay... so as long as the hay is properly cured to storable moisture before baling, the prussic acid should be gone. For silage or green chop or whatever, check with your extension or agronomist. For feeding or grazing, always give it about at least 5 days to recover and naturally eliminate the prussic acid before allowing access to the crop for grazing livestock.

Later and best of luck. OL J R


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm gonna no till 45 acres of sweet sugar grazer on sand this year. Will be my first time no-tilling and being on sand. $14 per bag you can't go wrong.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Lewis Ranch said:


> I'm gonna no till 45 acres of sweet sugar grazer on sand this year. Will be my first time no-tilling and being on sand. $14 per bag you can't go wrong.


That's what I'm thinking. It's only going to be 12 acres and if I can get one decent cutting it'll pay for itself.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Sounds like a winner to me.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

My steers and hogs are loving it. Customers are slow to come around though. I like getting 5-6_tpa on my poorer ground as well as not having to spray. Fairly efficient with fertilizer too. Good luck.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Well I'm glad this went in the favor of trying it. Ground is ready to plant. Just waiting on the pecan trees to bud out and the seed will go in the ground. Probably in about 2 weeks.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Are they planting corn and grain sorghum in your area?? If so you can go now...

Grandpa always said to wait to plant cotton til the pecan trees budded out, because that meant the danger of frost was over. We always planted corn nearly a month before cotton and sorghum about a week or two later than corn. Corn is the most frost resistant, sorghum is hurt a little more by frost, but frost will flat out kill cotton. Anyway, that's the way I heard it years ago. LOL

One other thing that you need to watch out for with sorghum/sudan-- if it's a dry year and drought hits and you've fertilized it heavily with nitrogen fertilizer, you want to get it tested for high nitrates in the forage before grazing or harvesting the forage, regardless of whether its for dry hay, silage, green chop, or whatever...

Unlike prussic acid which will go away once the plant is cut (or will naturally dissipate after about a week in plants coming out of post-drought or post-frost stress greenup), high nitrate content does NOT break down or outgas from the plants. Sorghums have a physiological response to drought in that even though the plant does not have sufficient water for growth and development in drought, it will "stockpile" nitrates absorbed through the roots in the plant tissues, awaiting the return of the rains and a sufficient source of moisture to increase its metabolism and continue rapid growth and development, using the stockpiled nitrogen as "fuel and food" for a rapid growth flush. If that moisture never arrives, the nitrates just keep building up and up and can be potentially fatally toxic to animals... it basically turns their blood to something that looks like chocolate milk, because the hemoglobin cannot carry oxygen in the blood due to the nitrate poisoning, and the animal asphyxiates.

If the stressed, usually stunted forage is grazed, or even if its cut for hay or silage, the nitrates remain after the plants have dried down enough for baling, or even if a lot of the water remains after wilting for chopping and ensiling... the nitrates still remain. The ONLY way to get rid of the nitrates is for the plants to get sufficient water to put on a 'growth spurt'. You can't tell whether it's high nitrate crop by looking-- you have to do a lab test of a forage sample.

High nitrate forage CAN be fed, but it MUST be VERY carefully controlled-- best way is to grind it in a tub grinder mixed with other hay that is known NOT to be high nitrate, in proportions that lower the concentration of nitrate in the ground hay to safe levels. It's very difficult to do with regular baled hay to ensure that no animals feed on too much of the high nitrate stuff and others feed on the low nitrate stuff...

Avoiding the use of heavy fertilization programs on drought-prone soils (as sandy soil typically is, depending on your local climate) can minimize or eliminate the problem...

Later! OL J R


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Curious where you're getting the seed for $14/bag?


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Yeah curious about that too. Cheapest I can get it is about 28- 32


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Fannin Ag has some cheap seed and honey grove does as well.


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## kentuckyguy (Apr 13, 2015)

Do they ship?


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

I have no idea.

If I could make a little money for my time I'd ship some out. Y'all can check shipping prices from 75418 if interested.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

These guys ship but their not as cheap and don't have the sweet sugar grazer but have some others that is just as good.

https://www.easttexasseedcompany.com/shopping/index.php?category=Sorghum+X+Sudangrass


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

My local feed store had it for 13.95 a bag. Wasn't nothing fancy


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm planning on planting about 50 acres of Gotcha Plus but want to experiment with other varieties. I'm sure the cheaper it is the lower quality the hybrid but it's worth a try.


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