# 1431 Thoughts



## dbergh (Jun 3, 2010)

Just spent an enjoyable afternoon cutting with a "New to Me" 1431 discbine. What an amazing amount of productivity. GPS was indicating 15 acres per hour at around 10mph. Hay was 2 tpa grass alfalfa blend and it did not even phase the mower. The mower could of gone faster but the autosteer was having a hard time keeping things headed the right direction at any higher speeds. Also a bit spooky heading across the field at those speeds just hoping I don't tie into something solid. An amazing change from the old faithful NH 116! Good mowers and kind of sad to see it leave behind the salesmans pickup this morning, but you were doing well to get 5mph in most conditions and I spent plenty of time unplugging that thing. Wont be missing that part of it!


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

What where you pulling the 1431 with? Wondering about the power requirements of a 1431.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

NH says 90 pto hp and max operating speed of 9 mph. I am guessing mlappin exceeded that recommendation.

Regards, Mike.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Vol said:


> NH says 90 pto hp and max operating speed of 9 mph. I am guessing mlappin exceeded that recommendation.
> Regards, Mike.


Yeah, works great with about 170 hp in front of it. 1431 paired with 8670 NH tractor is "da bomb"


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## dbergh (Jun 3, 2010)

Gearclash, We are using a JD 8300 w/ 200hp. Way overkill on HP obviously but it has the autosteer so it gets to do the duty!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> NH says 90 pto hp and max operating speed of 9 mph. I am guessing mlappin exceeded that recommendation.
> 
> Regards, Mike.


I have 120hp on mine, works just fine 99% of the time, was running 11mph mowing second cut the other day, but if our fields don't look like a sheet of glass before planting hay, it ain't ready to plant. I did try around a ninety horse tractor on it when I first got my 1431, it will run it, but the black smoke will roll depending on speed. Straight grass cuts harder than alfalfa, later cutting of grass can really pull hard. A nice mix of alfalfa and OG regardless of cutting mows real nice. Only time I notice a lack of horsepower is if I have a good hill to climb or the crop is lodged and is so tall the rollers will grab it before the disks cut it off, will just about kill the tractor when that happens.

We had another thread going somewhere a guy was having gear box problems with his 1431 or maybe the newer one as he'd replaced the same one several times already, I'm wondering if too much horsepower could be the cause? THinking is this, with too much you won't notice when it might be pulling excessively hard but with 120 hp I have to slow down so as not to overload the tractor instead of powering thru and overloading the gearboxes.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

BINGO...

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/13627-1431-gearbox-problems/?hl=gearbox


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

A 4020 Deere at about 100 hp will handle one but they are a little light and you can get a push when turning too fast. The 4440 handles it nicely at any speed you want, but the 1431 gets pushy on the rear end of that too when turning too fast. The ol' 4620 has enough iron in its rear to hold the 1431 in place well. Now we're running the H7450 on a Deere 7920 and its overkill but it's nice to sit in the tractor


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

There is no substitute for real grunt. You can do a little job with a big tractor but not the other way round. The discbines sure do soak up the power, the little brother to the 1431 the 1411 still needs all of 90 engine hp up front to cut 10 foot 4 inches whereas the same cut with a haybine (sickle) like the NH 489 needs only 40 or so hp.

Making the discbine labour could do a gearbox. The 1431 is a 1000rpm pto input speed machine. The reason that machines go to 1000 rpm is to reduce the torque requirements on the particularly on the tractor drive train. But dropping revs and labouring the machine raises the torque requirements through the gearbox to keep the discs spinning. Similarly the crop density and the roller setting. ie close set and high pressure loading on the rollers will also load up the gearbox in a heavy yielding paddock.

I run a Case 2290 in front of my 1411 and the revs do not drop even in crops yielding 250 bales (15,000 lbs dry hay) per acre.

Cutting tall crops that have lodged means that you may have to travel in the direction the crop has fallen or at least cross ways so the rollers cannot grab the plants before the discs cut them. That amount of energy to uproot the plants should cause the slip clutch to give way and slip. If it doesn't slip the next weakest component will break, usually the gearbox and that is expensive.

Hitting a solid object with the discbine is no fun. Try a 4 foot diameter concrete pipe set 3 foot 6 inches into the ground and sticking up a foot and me doing 6 or 7 mph hitting dead centre in the cutter bed. Had a close look at the windscreen and stalled the tractor. Cost 2 bottom modules and 2 top modules plus the connecting drive shafts, the load put a "hand" or twist in the splines of the connecting drive shafts preventing timing of the cutter heads.

The joys of contract (custom) work.

No doubt about it the 1431 discbine is a fine machine to work with and lots of production. One operator here complains because he gets small rocks through the rear glass, he now has a plastic screen to save the glass.

Have not encountered that problem because I set the machine at about 5 inches above the ground, hanging on the springs, keeping the skid shoes just above the ground. Not the setup recommended by NH but it works for me as all paddocks I work are in a granite belt with numerous small very hard stones. The cutter misses most and the angled rock guards cause the cutter bed to gently float over the stones keeping the blades above the stones.

To change the bottom modules is a mission not recommended for the faint hearted or the impatient, so look after the maintenance of those babies.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

You guys got me writing a new Psychology book: "Mower Envy". Every time I'm mowing with my 10'6" mower, I get to thinking "I'd be done by now if I had a 13' mower". And, then I get into a small field!

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> You guys got me writing a new Psychology book: "Mower Envy". Every time I'm mowing with my 10'6" mower, I get to thinking "I'd be done by now if I had a 13' mower". And, then I get into a small field!
> 
> Ralph


With a 13' center pivot machine small fields are almost easier to mow than with a side pull. A skilled operator using the center pivot can get into spots you can't with a side pull.

To me a 13' machine isn't big. Cut my teeth decades ago planting corn with a 8 row planter, now run a 16 row, a 30' air seeder for beans and a 60' spray boom. All of that row equipment can be got into some of our dinky little hay fields when the time comes to rotate em out of hay, isn't fun but can be done and you surely appreciate a good 50 acre field after planting an 7 acre field with a 40' wide planter. Takes longer to unfold, jockey it into corners and fold it back up than it does to actually plant.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I was looking at the Krone TM1400 a while back--18' cut! But $27,000!!!!

Ralph


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

I will need to subscribe to your book "Mower Envy" especially when I look at the prices you talk of for all hay gear.

A second hand 1431 starts at $27,000, a new 1411 a couple of years ago was well North of $40K. I priced a new JD348 baler this year at $38,000 list but a deal was offered without any haggling on an existing stock item at $35,000. I think with the season started the dealer was concerned he would be left with it 'til next year if he didn't sharpen his pencil.

A few guys here have 16 foot cut machines and I know a small square baler would be struggling to bale behind it in a heavy crop. The heaviest crop I have encountered I struggled to be slow enough with my NH 317 (an Australian made machine modelled I think on the 316).

I know that a NH 56 side delivery roller bar could not even move the windrow of a 16 foot machine this year and that was with a lump of railway iron strapped on across the rear cross member as ballast. In fact it could not turn all of my 10 foot cut windrows in heavy producing spots.

Everything we do keeps getting bigger and faster. I cut my teeth on a disc drill doing 12 rows planting oats and barley. Sometimes blocked back to only 8 rows to plant directly behind an old 8 disc plough. A 12 foot gate was big and I thought:

"I will not need anything bigger than that".

Then I refitted to double 10 foot and thought:

"I can't imagine anything that I will use that would be bigger than THAT!" .

Then I began refitting with 24 foot openings and soon saw the error of my ways and now I have set up 28 foot gate openings to get everything through. That will be the end of the "Gate Wars" for me as I do not have enough years left to do any more upgrades of equipment or gates. The investment has grown with over 100 steel gates most as double gates, estimated to be worth over $30K with gates, fittings, posts, and installation: and they do not produce a thing only make stock management easier and opening/ closing easier.

Getting back to the discbines. They sure do allow the management of more hay than a mid-mounted 6 foot sickle mower and a 10 foot hay rake. Luchy to get more than a couple of acres per hour by the time 2 passes were factored in, now about 10 acres per hour with my 10 foot 1411, and in more comfort.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

WOW, cost of shipping add that much?

I paid a touch over 17K for my very gently used 1431. Haven't done nothing but change blades in 4 years. Did add aftermarket rollers but their was nothing wrong with the stock ones other than they ain't worth a crap.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Do not see aftermarket rollers here. Could you tell me what the difference is in the stock and the aftermarket ones. Would you know the cost of aftermarket ones for a 1411 if there are such available. My rollers on my 1411 are worn out and NH wants a kings ransom here for refurbished rollers and even more for new replacements. The NH dealer here wants about $5500.00 for a second hand cutter bed for a 1411 which has to be suspect because it came from a machine the newer version of a 1431 which was scrapped under an insurance claim. You have to hit a moco pretty hard to have it written off when in its first season.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

New cutterbar for a 1411 about 7k here. New rollers around $2000 each.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

With stock rollers if you run them tight together, you will trash something from the vibration, aftermarket rollers are made to run clear together with the stop completely removed. Does a MUCH better job of crimping compared to stock rollers.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Sorry folks, took a few days off and went to the south west of the State to a place called Busselton, great rest and rec plus a bit of recuperation. Was there before the most recent shark attack death which occurred about 45 miles from where I went. While I did not see any big white pointer sharks, I managed to see a 7 foot Bronze Whaler shark cruising around below a jetty I was on. I decided it was a perfect time to not go swimming. Funny how some things can focus your mind !.

Thanks for the replies about rollers and cutter bars.

1411 cutterbar here $11,000. That cured me about asking for a roller price but recollect about $5 to $6,000.

What brands of after market rollers are there and any rating of them and their performance.

I have a spare bottom roller off a Hesston PT10 and I am looking at fitting that to the NH1411. The Hesston machines I have had gave excellent service and delivered good crimping and drying time of the hay. My 1411 now does not crimp the hay and tends to not catch the cut hay off the discs, letting it fall below the bottom roller.

I presume this is caused by the chevron bars on the bottom roller being worn down and rounded so not grabbing the cut material as it comes off the discs.

Does anyone have experience on this issue?

The Hesston roller is 1 1/2 inches narrower than the NH but is steel with square ribs.

The different width results in only 3/4 inch gap at the sides which I will have to shield to stop hay wrapping around the roller shaft that would then be exposed.

The upper Hesston roller was in rubber with an almost smooth surface.

I think I would retain the upper NH roller but cut back the chevrons to almost smooth, leaving a ridge of say 1/4 inch high.

I have little to lose in the experiment, but recognise the Hesston was a sickle mower and did not put hay through at the same rate as the 1411 does, so if the changeover operates, I may have to drop ground speed. That would be better than having to buy a new cutter or even new rollers.

Any ideas would be welcomed before I do any modifications and reach the point of no return and possibly have a machine that will not work.


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## beefguy (Jan 1, 2011)

check out B and D rollers on the net. bout $3500 fob Minnesota? I believe


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