# does hay dry faster in swath than windrow?



## charlesmontgomery

If I cut the hay and let it lay there to dry, will it dry faster in the swath or windrow.

When do I rake it? Right before baling or a day or so after I cut it, so that the bottom can dry? Will all of the green from the bottom be brought to the top when I rake it? if not then I guess its better to leave it in a wide swath as long as possible and rake right before balng?


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## Toyes Hill Angus

swath will definatly dry faster than a norrow windrow. I tedd the hay out after the top has dried out, then once that has dried after being tedded, I will rake it with a rotary rake and let it dry an hour or two before baling if needed. Oh,.... that only works if you can put more than two days together in a row that it doesn't rain


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## JoshA

Like most things, I would say this is totally dependent upon your climate / region.

If you get the majority of your drying power from the sun, then the wider the better. But if you get it from the wind/air, then a tall narrow windrow may be better suited.

Ground conditions are also, also depends on crop conditions when you're cutting it. If you're cutting alfalfa that's young and down and slimy, the ground underneath will likely be slimy too, probably best not to lay it flat on it, there will be no air movement beneath the swath.

As for raking, that's a "there" and "this time" thing. Some fields I rake a day or more in advance to get it to dry underneath, other times I rake a few hundred feet in front of the baler.

In perfect conditions (no fear of rain, etc) I leave the hay spread wide from the discbine(8ft-wide swaths), leave it to dry until it could be baled, then the next morning after the day it was dry enough to bale, I rake at 4-6am with the dew to keep the leaves on. I then bale late morning/early afternoon. Hay is green because only half has been exposed to the sun for more than a few hours, and full of leaves with little stem moisture.

That said, perfect conditions are rare. But that's what I like to do. ;-)

-Josh


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## hay wilson in TX

A lot depends on your micro climate. If you are in Oklahoma your climate is not thet much different than Texas. Problem is, Texas climate runs from the humid east to the arid west and I am in the confused central part.

Here are some links for reading material.

The best general information for hay production in the Humid East
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

Dan Undersander has a lot of great information. Remember he is in Wisconsin and his local truths may be different than what is true for your climate.
http://www.uwex.edu/ces/forage/pubs/drying_forage.pdf

An idea from New Holland. 
YouTube - ‪New Holland Discbine Wide Thins‬‏

Here is the Universal Truth that applies everywhere. 
It has to do with humidity. 
If the air next to the hay is *90%* humidity THEN the hay will be at least 40% moisture and can be raked or have a tedder used with minimal leaf shattering. That means Here when I rake it is at first light when there is still some dew. 
If the Air next to the hay is at *70%* humidity then cured hay will be no less than 18% moisture.
If the Air next to the cured hay is at *65%* humidity then the hay will be no less than 16% moisture.
If the Air next to the hay is at *55%* humidity then the hay will be less than 12% moisture and have excessive leaf shatter.

Now the mechanics of a wide swath. 
There are breathing holes in the underside of the leaves. As long as there is sunshine on the leaves these holes will remain open and in 5 hours the hay will dry down to 48% moisture. 
Put the leaves in the dark these breathing holes close. In the middle of the windrow the leaves are in the dark and the holes slam shut cutting off the discharge of moisture.

The direct sunshine heats the moisture in the plant, increases the vapor pressure and forces the moisture out the nearest opening. Think of vapor pressure as low pressure steam.

In parts of the arid west it is counter productive to lay out a wide swath. The hay becomes too dry too quick and there is not enough humidity to rake the hay when it is dry. In Arid conditions there is no NEED for solar power to dry the hay. Some hay growers have to add moisture to their windrows to retain the leaves during baling.

When reading the true and tried methods of putting up hay consider their local climate compared to yours.

HERE with the sun nearly directly over head we get a lot more vapor pressure than they do near Canada. There the sunshine's longer but not as hot. Here we see 0.40" of pan evaporation while up near Canada 0.20" is more common.

If the sun is not shining wide or narrow is of little matter.

Here with a good yield I follow the mower conditioner with a Tedder. Lay the hay out to cover 66% of the ground and then use the tedder to cover 100% of the ground.

Here the second morning after mowing I rake the hay into a windrow expecting to be able to bale the following day.

With less than ideal conditions it has required 14 days to have hay cure down enough to bale safely. No rain just heavy overcast and high humidity.

Something I have noticed is bermudagrass shatters more leaves during baling than alfalfa. Sounds bad but bermudagrass starts out with 60 or 70 percent leaves while alfalfa starts out with 50% leaves. 
A bale of bermudagrass stems will look good to the buyer, while a bale of alfalfa stems will look like a bundle of sticks. Each will be only 6% protein.

Another universal truth:
The true test for hay quality is animal acceptance and performance.

The animals go by touch, taste, & smell and never see the color green. The buyer only will see the color.


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## hay wilson in TX

Total Pan evaporation to dry hay 
from 80% to 20% moisture with varying 
Swath Width in % of ground covered 
100%	66%	50%	25% .10%	
Swath Swath	Swath	Windrow	Windrow	
.9T/A 
31 bales	.30"	0.39	.41" .62"	0.72	
1.6 RBs 
1.1T/A 
37 bales	.31"	.40"	.47" .71"	0.98	
1.9 RBs 
1.25T/A 
43 bales	.35"	.43"	.55" 0.79"	1.15	
2.3 BRs 
1.5T/A 
53 bales .39"	.47" .59" 0.89"	1.38	
2.6 RBs 
1.7T/A 
60 bales .42" .59" .68" .98"	1.57	
3 RBs 
2.1T/A 
77 bales .51"	.63"	.79"	1.07"	1.97	
3.8 RBs 
2.3T/A 
81 bales .56" .70"	.83" 1.24"	2.17	
4 RBs 
2.5T/A 
88 bales .58" .79"	.87" 1.28"	2.35	
4.4 RBs 
2.7T/A 
93 bales	.59" .84" .92" 1.38"	2.43	
4.7 RBs 
2.9T/A 
102 bls .61" .94" .99" 1.49" 2.61"	
5.5 RBs

As you can see if you are having 0.20" of pan evaporation a 3 ton yield will cure in three or more days with a full width swath but take 8 days if in a wndrow, while if you have 0.50"/day of pan evaporation will dry in 3 days in a windrow.

Consider this: 
If your local humidity never goes below 70% you will have difficulty finding the hay dry enough to safely bale day or night. 
On the other hand if your day time humidity likes to hang around 10% there may be nights where the night dew is not damp enough to hold the leaves.


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## charlesmontgomery

Thanks for the input. For these early cuttings its hard to get it dry due to the high humidity. I don't have a tedder.

I use a side delivery rake and don't have any problem with leaf loss. if i cut it about 4 1/2 to 5 weeks I usually get 17-19% protein and TDN of 60-62


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## Va_plowboy

What are you mowing with? If you have a conditioner then you bout always need to ted the hey out before it will dry through because of the tight swaths they make. A sickebar mower lays the hay in a wide thin swath and you can get that dried without tedding it easier.

A tedder is your best friend in high humidity areas like Virginia, where I am. We mow with a MOCO in the morning. Leave lay until the next day and ted. Then either rake and bale that day or the next. Usually if it's good and hot the hay will go the next day. I try to put a couple of hours between the tedding, raking and baling. We have had good luck with getting our hay up so far this year. 600 5x6 bales this week. No rain.

I suggest you find a good used tedder. Our tedder broke down friday and we tried raking some hay that had beenc cut the day before. It was way to green and we had to borrow a tedder.

When I used to cut with a sicklebar, We could cut the hay, leave it that day and the next, then rake and bale the next day. That take three days without rain though. A tedder will save you that day. A perfect setup for a smaller farm would be a four basket tedder and rotary rake. W have alot of hay to put up so we use a V-rake. The windrows won't dry as good as with a rotary. A rotary will almost save you from having to ted hay.


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## charlesmontgomery

I use a Kuhn 9'2" disc mower, it probably makes a 6.5' swath i am going to try adjusting the swath wheel to make it wider. I have looked around some for a tedder, not many around this part of the country. They tell me most are sold in Missouri and that direction

thanks


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## hay wilson in TX

Va-plowboy, I agree with your observation on using a simple mower, but you might want to consider using the tedder right behind the MOCO if you are not using a NH Diskbine.

Moisture goes out of the crop through the breathing holes in the leaves at a great rate. In fact the effect of conditioning is insignificant compared to the effect of the breathing holes in the leaves, on the moisture loss. 
But those breath holes close when not in direct sunshine, and do not reopen the following morning, for a mown hay crop. 
HERE if I have 5 hours of good sunshine the hay will dry down to <48% moisture almost eliminating any respiration over night. That respiration burns up carbohydrates reducing feed value as well as yield.

My great enlightening on hay curing was the first link, which was presented to a Virginia Annual Forage Conference by some people from WV.

Much of all this does not apply to the High Desert Hay Growers with their night time temperatures below 60ºF and day time humidity's in the 20% range. They have their own unique problems.


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## jdhayboy

I could break my computer right now... My internet sucks!!! I had a long message typed out and it then kicks me off the net!!
See if can do this again...
So your saying wilson, that the hay will dry the most within about 5 hour window right after cutting. That is something I didn't know for sure. But I can tell you that last year I cut some hay and run the Recon 300 crimper with slinger attachment through it and was able to bale it the next day. I was scared to square bale it so I just roled it up. The hay was sold as horse hay with no complaints. This is down here outside of houston, tx and you just don't get hay dried in 2 days. Its at least 3-5 day process depending on conditions. 
I like to experiment with different techniques. I think this year if we ever get any rain, I will try cutting and recon in the same day, on day 2 I would rake it up at some point to help save color and sq bale it on day 3. We just lose so much color from the dew on the hay every morning.


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## Bret4207

Hay Wilson, that's some real interesting info I'd never heard before. Up here in the humid NE on the Ontario/Quebec border it's normal for the dew to stay on till 10-11AM some days. What you're saying makes me wonder if I should just ignore the dew and start cutting earlier in the day.


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## hay wilson in TX

Not trying to be smart but I would go positively nuts trying to hay in your country.

It was pounded into my head not to cut until the dew dried to prevent the spreading of disease and supposedly the hay supposedly dries quicker if you wait. 
Fellows I knew in the AF insisted hay actually dries better and sooner if the conditioning rollers sling the moisture off the plant.

I do know there will still be wet with surface dew when the free air is at 55% Relative Humidity, HERE.

For lack of a better idea I would probably pass air and blink real hard.


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## charlesmontgomery

now I am confused,so here in southeastern OK, somedays dew will be there until 10 am. So do I wait to cut it or not?

Two, if I find a tedder, I am supposed to ted it right after cutting since my disc mower puts it in about a 6' swath or wait until the next day and ted while there is a slight dew to preserve leaves.

thanks. very interesting thread


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## mlappin

Bret4207 said:


> Hay Wilson, that's some real interesting info I'd never heard before. Up here in the humid NE on the Ontario/Quebec border it's normal for the dew to stay on till 10-11AM some days. What you're saying makes me wonder if I should just ignore the dew and start cutting earlier in the day.


Sounds jsut like here in Northern Indiana, no point in getting in a big hurry in the mornings as the dew will take till 10 or so to disapear and depending on the sun that day and how heavy the dew was, could be tough till noon. The only times I've ever been able to bale late or first thing in the morning was during a drought and then it was so dry, their wasn't squat for hay anyways.


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## jdhayboy

CharlesM, I know that I definetly don't have answer to your question.  Baling hay is a lil different everywhere. Just about every cutting of hay will have different curing conditions. My advice is to go with the tried and true techniques and do a lil experimenting on the side.


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## mlappin

charlesmontgomery said:


> now I am confused,so here in southeastern OK, somedays dew will be there until 10 am. So do I wait to cut it or not?


Depends, how good does your mower lay out wet hay, is plugging a problem when it's wet?

One morning I started early mowing, water was dripping off the reel, mowed a small 5 acre field we planted along our drainage ditch for a buffer zone. Finished that, made a few phone calls and what not.

Went down the road and started on another small field, caught a bambi and had to head home to cut it out, while at home helped Dad get some steers loaded for the sale barn or processor. When I started the second small field it was just damp, when I got back to finish it it was practically dry. All was tedded the next morning, the stuff mowed dead last was ready to bale first and the stuff mowed while wet from the dew was ready dead last.



charlesmontgomery said:


> Two, if I find a tedder, I am supposed to ted it right after cutting since my disc mower puts it in about a 6' swath or wait until the next day and ted while there is a slight dew to preserve leaves.
> 
> thanks. very interesting thread


I have better luck tedding it the morning after it's mowed while the dew is still on it. I've tried tedding directly after mowing and usually jsut end up tedding it again the next morning anyways. Either way if the weather is decent I can still bale it the afternoon of the second day.


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## Bret4207

Thanks for the ideas and opinion. I guess I'll stick with the tried and true.


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## charlesmontgomery

found a tedder today so I am ready to go for tomorrow mornning. I cut it on monday and will ted it in the morning and see how she dries


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