# New Holland Self Propelled Balers



## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Well, things come in bunches ........ good bad or indifferent!

Since I was a kid ......... about 40 years ago ........ plus a little ............ I have always wanted a SP baler ..........

And if you are patient enough ........... persistent enough .......... and observant enough ......... sometimes your ship sails in!

Mine did about three weeks ago!

A neighbor bought a new inline Ferguson 16X18 a while back and I ran into him at the local NH parts store. He owned three SP balers, two 1283's twine and a 1281 wire.

I asked him to let me know if he ever thought about letting go of one .................

So a couple of years later .............. he drives in unexpected and tells me .................. I can have the whole passel.

The price ......... well lets say it was three for the price of ONE!

Now there's problems ....... of course with them ............. that's why he went off the deep end and bought the inline!

He gives me a complete run down on them .......... but I am not deterred!

So we get them home ........ only about two miles separate us ........ we tow one on a car dolly and drive the other two to our ranch and we tear into the one that's supposed to be the first to get running.

The neighbor was positive that the bearing on the output shaft on the motor was bad .......... we thought .......... sweet ....... it's no sweat taking the motor loose and changing that bearing .......

We get the motor loose in no time and set it on the ground and take out a perfectly good output bearing!

Now we go looking ............... and we find the real culprit ...........

I would say that a owner prior to my neighbor had worked on the next drive shaft from the engine and used a bolt that was too long to seat that pulley on the tapered spline ....... after a number of years of running and getting by ...... it ruined the pulley and damaged the shaft.

If you can find it ............ those two items are about $1K ......... and bearings are another $200.

So we send out an "SOS" to another neighbor who is the number one guru on these machines in my area hoping he has the parts and will part with them.

He wanted to check his inventory before he'd commit but instead offered some other advice ........ he's had sold two other wire SP's to another farmer who had passed away about 12 years ago and that ranch sold and the machines were just sitting there unused all that time .......... one ........... another 1283 wire and the other ..... a stripped out hulk of a 1281 wire.

I got a hold of the property owner and secured his enthusiastic permission to look at them ........

We came to terms and towed that whole *passel* home as well.

So now ........... at five self propelled balers ...........

I think my neighbor with the car dolly is going to change his phone number ............ LOL! ......... you see, I have word of another SP baler about 20 miles away that's not used much ............ hmmmm

Best regards

Three 44s


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

soooo, any of them running now?

sounds like a west coast version of what goes on at our place  Jeff said sounds like what he does and just keeps on working to fix stuff, no matter how long it takes LOL

So glad that a SP baler hasn't been on our want list and maybe, just maybe we'll be too senile to start thinking that direction

Shelia


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I scrapped one and sold one a few years ago. If you need carb info on the 1283's it is a 69 Ford falcon carb. The clutch is a Studebaker and can be re lined by any good clutch shop.
The real question is...... how many have cabs?
Congrats on the purchases. If you don't have grey hair now..... You will have soon. The good news is that when running properly there isn't anything that will run with them, including the inline balers.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I googled "passal" and the urban dictionary result, well, I'll let you look it up.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Just a simple typo....should have been passel.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Vol said:


> Just a simple typo....should have been passel.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Thanks. I don't think anyone uses passel around here and I just couldn't piece that together.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's a funny story......I hope you bought them for a song! Surely out of 5 (or is it 6 now  ) you can get one or two punching out bales......good luck to you


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I needed a good chuckle this morning.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'd love to see a picture of these in a nice lineup.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

The question now becomes whether you run out of ambition, money or things to fix first. I too would like to see a picture. Good luck to you.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hallshay has pictures of a whole bunch of SP balers on his facebook page. I guess his family used to use them a lot.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Whoa! Ok ...... passel!

The three 1283's have cabs ........ two of those are twine machines and the latest one is wire.

The other two are 1281's, wire and no cabs.

In the short run the wire 1283 will be a parts machine for a couple of items. But as it has a cab and an intact A/C system I have designs on getting a twine knotter for it and getting it going. Likely a winter project .........

One of the two 1281's has a cam roller in the header out and little else wrong sans it has no cab and it's wire. I am not ready to tear down this one ......

The fifth and final machine is also a wire and no cab 1281 and its picked over enough I really don't see turning it into a baler again. It's likely a parts machine till it's just scrap iron.

I have a 282 on blocks and picked over ......... a wire machine ........ that's why we parked it and there is some percentage in turning a 1281 into a 1282 to get the wider header (the '82's are as wide as the '83's etc.) I also have a 425 pto on blocks that could look good on one of the self propelled units!

It turns out that New Holland drilled and punched out holes etc all over their balers during the time the self-propelled's were being made thus, if the occasion called for it ...... the baler was ready for any reasonable eventuality.

So in my baler size range, I can shop for a used NH baler of that long time span and take a worn out baler off and put some future relative cream puff on in it's place.

For the time being, I see the two 1283's that are already twine running soon. We have the first of the two cycling as of today at the shop. Monday my main employee is coming back even though it's Memorial Day (his choice) and we are going to head to the field and do some trials with it.

The other twine 1283 is waiting for one bearing due in next Tues or Wed and we can start putting it back together.

What's funny about this fellow that is helping me on this project and works for our ranch .......

.......... used to own the first baler we are likely to get going ............ told his brother that it's come back to haunt him!!!! He sold it about 12 years ago to the family I bought it from.

And an other coincidence: The wire 1283 ......... we rented it back in the late 1980's for week or so from the guy who is advising us and steered me into buying it and the "half" of a 1281 for parts. I ran the wire 1283 back then.

As far as the cost I think we did OK ....... we paid $3K for the two twine 1283's and the single 1281 that is just an ace from baling but in wire. It's got a 4 cyl. Ford motor with 50 psi oil pressure when it's warmed up. You gotta love a little gem like that!

The parts machines, the wire 1283 and the half of a 1281 were $800

If you understand the machines, the parts are very interchangeable. The big bug a boo on them is the Vari Drive .......... New Holland does not make parts for them and if you priced them .... you'd walk away anyway! And as to the propulsion unit, not much changed from about 1960 to the end with the 1426 in the mid '80's ....... the outboard stub axels are different but from the first Vari drive shaft forward, the transmission and finals ......... these are the same part numbers.

So for 800 bucks I got $1000 worth of parts in just two parts I needed ........... and a whole lot more!

I am still kind of reeling from the whole enterprise to judge just how far we go with this "business" but I like to let some of this just sort of soak in!

Speaking of soaking ........ a good hot tub sounds like the ticket right about now after crawling around those tight quartered puppies for the past week!

It's hell to work on them when you are too fat and pushing "60" .......... LOL!

Three 44s


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Nice find at great prices.The cabs are worth $500/ each. Scrap value is about $400 stripped down. I would say that you did fine.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> Nice find at great prices.The cabs are worth $500/ each. Scrap value is about $400 stripped down. I would say that you did fine.


Thanks!

You add in the vari drives and other stuff and even my father who fought me all these years not wanting SP balers is impressed!

We get one or two baling in the next few days and he will really be happy!

Gonna give my old NH 286 a dose of envy!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

An update:

Besides the drive issue on one of the twine 1283's ..... the previous owner also warned me about the second machine baling up it's needles ..... we were made quite aware of it before buying them.

So we took the knotter apart as we had a cam gear that was loose on the shaft and found all the woodruff keys about half eaten off and since both hard points gone on the gear as well ..... replaced it.

With the knotters restacked and a new brake installed as all the lining was worn off ...... we fired up the needle eating baler up for the first time ....... no needles installed however.

(I am good at welding them up ....... but it's not my favorite activity!)

Oddly, the needle yoke ........ the big bow under the baler ........ was popping out on it's pivot shaft on the left side of the chamber each time the knotter cycled!

It would jump out about a 1/4" every single cycle!

I went to bed that night and "slept on it" ........... yesterday morning with no one around to bug me .... I took flashlight in hand and crawled under that puppy!

I figured the needle yoke might have a crack in it ...........

Now there still may be a hairline crack somewhere that I did not see but what I did find is that in curve of the bow on the right side ......... was a weld repair as if it had worn through ..........

............ and similarily, there was rub marks from the needle yoke rubbing on the self propelled chassis!

You see, someone had welded 3/8" thick straps on both sides of the frame .......... fixing an apparent broken frame sometime back ......... and the needle yoke is rubbing on it ...........

The owner previous to me also had two sizes of knotter shear bolts in the tool box on the baler .... a smaller one ........ and the correct ones ........ the correct package was unopened and the too small bolts were loose in a bag.

I think we have reached a water shed moment here!

I guess I gotta crawl under that baler some more before we get to run hay through it!

Arc Air torch here I come!

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Made some progress after a stumble yesterday!

We believe we solved the clearance issue with the needle yoke and finished up for a first test.

A rusty fuel tank had other ideas!

We sputtered our way to about 150 feet of the first hay field to bale ....... it involves a climb of about 300 feet in elevation in about 1.5 miles of travel ........ but could not close the deal yesterday.

Today we removed the fuel tank and took it to the shop for a thorough cleaning. We washed a lot of rust out and changed the way we draw fuel from it ...... it turns out that the way New Holland plumbs them from the factory is asking for trouble ...... they draw from the bottom. We changed that after the washing and now draw from the top by way of a factory installed dip tube.

(Everyone knows you don't want to draw from the "bottom of the barrel" ......... don't they?)

So late this afternoon, we made a test run ..... no dew but on some grass hay ....... we ran about a half mile of rows and had a perfect run ........ then we lost one of the rear tires ......... an old rag of a 14.9 X 24 diamond tread ...... it did not dampen my enthusiasm! We knew that tire was on it's last leg and the fact that we believe we have broken this baler's "habit" of eating needles ..... is a triumph!

Now, besides the needle yoke rubbing on a frame reinforcement done by a previous owner that we corrected, we found other grevious issues:

The needle safety was out of adjustment ......... too retarded ........... the brake on the knotter shaft was completely worn out ....... and the knotter was at least three teeth out of time ......... late and the classic ........ too small of a bolt for the knotter shear point.

We will borrow a tire from a parts machine ...... it will have to be another of the later balers because the very old 1281's use a different tire and bolt circle.

I was again struck just how nimble and manuverable these self propelled machines are!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

44s, I love the story, keep it coming. Could you post some pictures?


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Clowers,

Thank you and everyone else that's chimed in with encouragement and likes!

I'll have to get some pics going ...... there is no doubt about that!

It's just that we've been so busy to get at these balers and get some "dust raised" and in the process, we are pretty greasy ...... too greasy to handle a camera.

My phone, I call it a dumb phone ........ probably takes much better pictures than I give it credit ....... is always with me ......... I know ....... excuses .........

A little hint though ........ my wife and I bought a drone late last fall and it's got a KILLER camera on it.

What I would like to do is get as many balers going at once and do a fly by .... the drone does vids (of course) and stills as well.

I have a neighbor that is more than willing to help me set up a web site for the ranch ....... a good marketing tool ........ and between where our cows run .......... some gorgeous mountain scenes and the green hay fields framed in desert sage and other terrain here on the home place ........

I think it would be pretty cool and useful as well ...........

And of course I will have to share this with the good people on this site!

Tomorrow ......... an other day ......... and another baler ...... well at one anyway! LOL!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

We have an old shed we want to clean out this spring and I am sure there are a few 1280's treasures buried away. Not sure if anything I have would be useful to you or how we could reasonably get it to eastern WA, but after running self propelled balers for 30-40 years we accumulated a lot of stuff.





  








Hydro baler 1




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HALLSHAY


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Jun 1, 2016











  








Equip 2




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HALLSHAY


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Jun 1, 2016








Love my drone! Home place at sunset.





  








DJI 0027




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HALLSHAY


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Jun 1, 2016


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Tim,

Thanks for your reply .......... very impressive iron there!

I was wondering about the picture of the SP with a cab that is named "Hydro 1" ...... was/is that machine a hydrostat? A conversion I presume if it was?

The offer and possibility of 1280 parts in generous ........... the sorts of parts that really rise to the surface as I am sure you are aware mostly deal with the Variable speed drive ........ shafts and sheaves and clutch and transmission/final drives. Except for the stub axle (wheel attaches to), those parts are virtually identical or for all practical purposes, the same through out the SP genre. ........... I think starting with the model 178?

Nice drone picture and beautiful scenery also!

Thanks and best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Baled some more and the baler is doing great!

The water pump started screaming for help though ......... rebuilt, no exchange ............ 19 bucks and locally in stock! While I was in town, I picked up the cabin air filters for both of the twine SP's. I'll see about getting the cab air pressurizers going starting with the running baler first.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Coughed and hacked a fair amount last night trying to get to sleep .......... that cab air system is going to trump the open window on the far side (away from the chamber) because when the breeze is wrong .... things get pretty dusty and scratchy fast!

It sure makes you think about how much tougher folks were 50 years ago to run these SP's open station like my 1281's and HallsHay's line up of six!

Once we get the bugs out of the first of the running 1283's ........ she'll really cruise around ...... it bales very nicely and turns on a dime!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

We rebuilt 3 of those balers with perkins diesels and hydrostat drives to get rid of the dreaded variable speed. That particular baler was a beast! I wish I had more pictures of the one that was retrofit with a Gleaner combine cab that we extended 12" out the back and added a buddy/bench seat. It was a great baler also. Most of the 1425's that we owned are still running on ranches in the CO mountains. Here is one of the only pics I have of the Gleaner retrofit.





  








13063029 812440235527178 6246150438097680937 O




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HALLSHAY


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Jun 2, 2016


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Tim,

Thanks for the picture with the Gleaner cab retrofit!

That would be sweet!

I figured that if we were to hang onto the SP balers long enough we might need to figure out a hydrostat conversion sooner or later.

The thing is we are a small outfit and I will do my best to stay on top of greasing the vari drive in particular ....... all of mine thus far seem to be pretty fair ......... and the other trick is to get anyone driving them to not change vari speed too quickly.

You are supposed to grease each drive side independently ...... Ie. run each pulley set in and grease that pair of sheaves and then reverse the drive to the opposite end of the the speed range and grease that side ....... my local guru says ...... one pump ......... can't get it on the belts ........ but you don't dare run them dry ........

........... it's a fine line! A good place for Lucas or Power Punch grease it seems.

As always, thank you and best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Hallshay I wish you would tell us about the hydro you put on those balers what it came off of and how hard it was to replace,I have a 1282 and love it,I even made the chamber down to a 14+18 and put a plunger out of a 277 baler and it works like a charm. I did replace the vari drive pulleys and shaft a few years back it was worn and it would eat up those drive belts,and I still carry a spare in the front compartment,I might look into changing over to a hydro


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282,

A little trick was taught by a fellow that spent most of his baling days on NH SP balers:

He has shown me that you find a supply of fairly thin washers that will fit over the spline shaft that runs the length of the machine.

You place them under the hollow greasing bolt that holds the Vari drive and add until you get your spring tensioned pulley away from the frame work above it.

You get longer runs on your belt.

But I also would ask if Tim could clue us in a little more on the hydrostatic conversion ....... "enquiring minds want to know" ............ LOL!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three 44s I dont quite understand the trick,you take out the bolt that has the grease zerk in it and put some more washers under it until the spring adjustable pulley comes down,is that what you mean? I cant understand because that is what the adjustment is far,I think until there is 18 inches (need to check manual on that measurement) but I am listening


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282,

Yes, you place spacer washers under the bolt head w/ the grease fitting and move the outside sheave closer to the adjustable one.

The washer technique would work in conjunction with adjusting the inside sheave outwardly.

In effect you are moving both sheaves towards each other over time and the washer adjustment is easier and it also helps you compensate for belt wear better ...... if you just use the threaded adjustment a worn belt gets out of line fairly quickly .........

......... But by moving both the outside and inside sheave you can keep it better centered and therefore better aligned with the driven sheaves. A worn belt better centered can be run longer and will not wear as fast during that extended run either.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

If your looking for another self propelled there is a 1426 diesel on the Twin Falls Craigslist. Price is way too high in my opinion though.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA,

Thanks for the heads up ......... our plate is pretty full now though.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Three44s said:


> Coughed and hacked a fair amount last night trying to get to sleep .......... that cab air system is going to trump the open window on the far side (away from the chamber) because when the breeze is wrong .... things get pretty dusty and scratchy fast!
> 
> It sure makes you think about how much tougher folks were 50 years ago to run these SP's open station like my 1281's and HallsHay's line up of six!
> 
> ...


I bet most of those guys that sat through the dust of baling, combining and such have scar tissue in their lungs. My dad does, my brother in law's dad does. Becareful.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Teslan said:


> I bet most of those guys that sat through the dust of baling, combining and such have scar tissue in their lungs. My dad does, my brother in law's dad does. Becareful.


Teslan,

You've got that right!

The guy I call the Guru on the SP balers in my area has his last pair of SP's for sale right now ...... they took the small third lobe of one of his lungs out of him this winter and he attributes it to SP baling!

As a young man he roofed .... they did a lot of tar etc. ......... He smoked as I recall .......... and some of his larger roofing jobs were at our local nuclear reservation ....... but he blames the SP baling .....

........... much of it open station!

Luckily, his tumor was benign!

I am cogniznant of the issue and run just machines with cabs and pressurizers and if I were to get my sole open station baler going, I'd break out Kasco or White Cap systems ......... filtered head gear .............. I'd look like I was in outerspace but I've had allergies since I was a kid but breathing is more important than looks ..........

............. what's looks when you just an old hay seed anyway? LOL!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Three44s said:


> Teslan,
> 
> You've got that right!
> 
> ...


Probably for that guy it's a mix of it all. My dad never has smoked or done any tar of anything. Just lots of hours in the dust. Then add lots of hours with the hot sun beating down on a guy. No problems with his breathing it's just they noted the scar tissue when he had a ct scan a year ago. I've had lots of ct scans over the last 5 years and no scar tissue for me. I don't know about my brother in laws dad. I have allergies also though they have gotten better. Thankfully I've had cabs for all my farming life. But still you get dust. Just not nearly as much as those older guys.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three44s said:


> nhbaler282,
> 
> Yes, you place spacer washers under the bolt head w/ the grease fitting and move the outside sheave closer to the adjustable one.
> 
> ...


 Ok thanks and now I understand what you are talking about,I am going to try and put a shim on behind the driven sheave to compensate for wear in the linkage and add some to the drive sheave but now I finally figured out what you are talking about. Thanks


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

For me its pull type bales with cab tractors. Life is too short to spend it in the dirt and noise. A tractor will wear out several balers so the math tells me to buy tractors.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Teslan,

I have been using cabs on tractors for the past 20 years, a JD with a Sound Guard really was a game changer around that time.

Prior to that I used first a 3M White Cap system and when the motor went blewy I bought a Kasco helmet system for the price of the 3M motor and gave 3M a piece of my mind!

nhbaler282,

Good luck on adjusting your vari drive. Looks like you are on your way!

Jay in WA,

We always used PTO balers with tractors. But with gear transmissions and 2000' windrows, it's either a lot of shifting or a very long time for speed options that don't match the windrow conditions.

We went to power shift transmissions with two tractors and that has helped but with those more exotic drive systems, there comes a price ............ and you still have range shifts at times ......

A hydrostatic drive tractor would be good but I notice the IH series's of tractors are keeping their value and getting more worn everyday ..... When you blow one of those ....... you are really going to hurt the financial department.

We were at a turning point with one of our PTO balers ...... it's getting pretty tired and the other one is on blocks ..... it needs a major welding project on the plunger so when the neighbor came along with his offer to sell his whole string of SP balers ...... we jumped.

I have been running the first of the 1283's we got going for the last few days and though there have been glitches with fuel contamination and old tires, the rest has been great. Also, I have made strides on the cab pressurizer and it's doing fine. As the windrow density changes, I have infinite control over feeding and I don't have to twist my neck hardly at all.

I miss burning diesel however!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

I grew up on NH PTO balers. Started on a 281, then to the 282, 283, 286, 425, and 426. from there I went to 3 tie 505's then to big balers. A full powershift was always my favorite transmission for baling. IVT would be better now. The partial power shifts leave a lot to be desired.

The problem with the 1283's is they were light balers to begin with and they are really old now. I have been told some of the parts are no longer available. Such as the gearbox on the cross feed.

I bought a 2 tie baler this spring for a project for my employee. Went with a PTO Freeman 200 because of cost. A NH 580 or 5080 would have been the first choice.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

When I still had mine I found parts at Nyssa tractor in Oregon. They shipped and had several obsolete parts in stock.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Lostin55,

Thank you, I do have Nyssa on my radar.

My local dealer that used to sell NH has a baler grave yard of some size and we may come to terms on some stuff of general baler components ........ they don't have any SP specific parts however.

It's unbelievable what NH has done with their general baler parts pricing on machines from the 426/1426 and older and what they have flat out quit on.

The cam track on the header for example:

A NH 580 and newer is $140 ............ a 426 and older ............. $904!

I don't need one and have spares at this point ........ and in the past have repaired them ........

It's come to the point of either "surrender" or have someone out with a truck picking up every part baler or scrap or piece of one and canabalize it for parts ........ or just flat out make it or have it made!

Pitful!

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Could be worse. You could be buying Freeman parts.

Those 1283 balers are getting awfully old. I don't know of any still running here.

NH though is the absolute worst at parts price gouging.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

There are still a number of them running around here, including the one that I sold. I junked another one that I had.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Yes, the 1283's are pretty old and NH has gotten terrible at price gouging. So the best defense is to either run away from them ....... or run right at them ........... Ie. buy used ones with usable parts on them for a song.

Before I jumped into the first two 1283's and the 1281 ........ I researched the parts interchangability and found there are a lot that crosses over between models .......... baler to baler and self propelled to self propelled.

When we found out we needed a critical shaft and pulley that would cost ........ if you could find them ............. about $1K .......... it did not take very long for me to buy the next 1283 and another 1281 for $800 and tow the two them home as well.

The neighbors must think I am nuts ......... LOL! ......... until I tell them the skinny ........... 

When NH made all those balers back in the day ........ like the 280-283's and the 420-426's ......... they drilled all the holes and made all the cut outs necessary for it to have an engine drive or go on a SP carrier or just be a PTO baler.

I can finnish off a baler ......... find a cream puff with some run left in it and bolt it onto a carrier and go SP again!

........... and I could do that all the way up to the 426 series .......... now, that ain't bad!

And as baler geometry is pretty constant ......... I would hazard a guess that you could do it with the 580 baler ........

OR, I can get tired of the whole affair and just sell parts or whole ......

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

NH was very good at parts commonality. Makes fixing them much easier. A lot like a small block chevy.

One of the best upgrades you can make is to go to the 426 style feeder but don't buy it from NH. Go with the Rankin setup if its still available. If not I can tell you how to build it. Uses standard plunger rollers instead of the little rollers with the plastic caps. Major improvement over stock.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA,

Do tell! Rankin Equipment is just down the road a spell!

All those years buying parts from the local dealer and not a single hint at a better system and yes, they are tied in with them .........

I have long ago gone to the "old/new" cross feed and junked any of what NH called Flow Action but it's still all New Holland parts ...... and these 1283's are no different ........ but to be honest, I'll have to look at all three of them ....... the last one that came home we have not looked that closely at.

I looked up Rankin on their web site and can't find a reference to the conversion you refered to so any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

So I am wondering: What track is used? NH or something Rankin made?

And the plunger bearings you mentioned ......... are we talking about the larger main support bearings or the guide bearings like what are at the top of the plunger right behind the knife and also used to adjust knife spacing?

Thank you for your offer, I appreciate your help

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Not the same Rankin. This company was out of California. Used to make the 1 wheeler self propelled 3 tie conversion. Uses the large plunger rollers with a custom made cam track that was built out of real metal so it would last. I will have to look and see if I can find any of the info on them. No idea if they are still in business.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA,

I tried some searches to no avail but the info you have shared thus far gives me a fair idea about what you are getting at ..........

........... and that would be a pretty skookum set up!

I like it!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

I found some old info in my files that was incomplete but a search located them.

Rankins AG Inc

Tracy CA

209-464-7651

209-835-6254


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA,

I thank you for your efforts and particularly during the busy season!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## jeff outwest (Sep 13, 2009)

A Rankin One Wheeler. There a few of out in Nevada


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

There is a 505 with a 1 wheeler on the Stockton craigslist too.

Sure would be a horribly noisy thing to operate.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA,

It's funny you mentioned the cross feed last evening. Mine blew up this morning!

My track and square tube are fine and I borrowed the tail piece and rollers from the 1283 wire machine ........ ten feet of 2060H chain bought and I'll be running in the morning!

Your idea took on great relevance all of a sudden .......... LOL!

One thing about an SP baler ........ when it sounds like it might be coming in the cab with you ........

........... your ears might not be deceiving you!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jeff out west,

It's a curious looking outfit ....... but I think that a tractor would give you better visibility with that baler.

The over hang over the header makes the pick up pretty obscured with sitting up so high.

Thanks and best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Those self propelled balers always looked like they would be a real bearcat to work on the cross feed.

Another really good mod is to spring load the cross feed chain tension. If it runs loose it will self destruct. Check it daily and make sure its tight. Always check it with the feeder drive link on a sprocket.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

OK, I better correct my verbage a little ...... it was the first chain off the main gearbox that failed in the wreck.

But your point about the cross feed chain itself is good as well.

You are right about the SP balers being "fun" to work on. With the cross feed, you stand on the header bands and go in the top side only. The tail end is accessible as well but it's a little tall since the whole baler sits higher on a SP chassis than it does as a conventional pull baler.

If this SP business works out like I am anticipating ......... I'll have all three of the 1283's going next summer ....... two this year in the second and have one running now in the first ........... and with three going, I'll have security when something breaks.

I thought about firing up my PTO NH 286 but my harrowbed guy would probably go on strike ......... LOL! The roof of the chamber is so worn and I did a major reinforcement several years ago and did not notice the twist in the chamber afterwards ........... it does fair in alfalfa but not go good in grass or mixes ........... and he has to pick them up the same way the baler went and stacking them can be a bear unless the bales are bricks.

He's real happy with this 1283 and it's bales so I don't think I better pull his chain unless it becomes real necessary!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Update on the self propelled baler saga:

We thought the knotter shear bolt getting sheared along with the main shear was a thing of the past but it reared it's ugly head once again.

If you recall, we found that the needle yoke was rubbing a frame reinforcement and we used the old gas wrench a grinder to gain relief.

After about 2800 bales things went gunny sack and we were shearing pins right and left.

So we went back to the drawing board.

What we were finding was the needles half way out of the chamber but with a perfect tie of both sides of the bale and the knotter bolt sheared and the main flywheel bolt sheared as it approached the needles on the return trip.

The previous owner was not maintaining the needle safety as it should have been ........ it's one of the very first things we addressed before even replacing the plunger after a bearing change.

We found a variety of things related to our problem that we corrected. We were not going to fix one thing at a time because time is too precious, instead we used a shotgun approach.

The first item that was obvious was that one of the needles was getting too close to one side of the needle slot of the plunger ... some rubbing at the top of the slot in fact ......

Another item was one of the small knotter gears was trying to pile ...... we found this by hand rotating the knotter in a tripped condition.

We reduced the knotter stack pressure but I think we may have just a wee bit to remove there yet.

We reduced the brake drag.

After all of this, we went from a bolt shearing frenzy ........ to one pair of bolts sheared all morning.

In lieu of further reducing the stack pressure, I got the grease gun out am keeping the knotter more full of grease as a test.

Since all of these developments, I have not lost any shear bolts.

Yesterday morning was a very dry windy one and I had a different sort of issue: One of my needles was coming up unstrung. I kept having to restring one side and it was getting pretty frequent. Granted, I was running a lot of pressure to get bale weight up and that's when you start hanging knotts on the bill hooks and such and at first glance that's what one would think ........ but it was not a knot but rather a short piece of string left on it and willy nilly wrapped around it.

A bit of back ground is that we took the twine box off this baler to fix the mounting brackets and to gain better access to the rest of the baler .......... so when I put the box back on the machine I did not get the twine guides exactly where they were when we took it off. My employee noticed the change and commented on it ...... he said, "Well, we can watch that for trouble".

The change caused the twine that was messing up to come out sideways from the box and drop over the side of the twine tension bracket.

Thus a lost string on a needle ............. and a bad morning for me.

I switched out the brackets and brought the porcelin guides even closer than they were when we took possesion of the machine.

This morning, a better day for dew ...... I dove into a field of straight alfalfa like a dog jumping on a meat wagon ..........

........... and came up all smiles! Not a hitch of any kind!

In our spare time, we continue to work on the second 1283 twine .........

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

The "dreaded Vari Drive"!

The dreaded vari drive staged a fit yesterday on the first of the 1283's we have running.

I was on my first windrow of the morning, about 1/4 mile in length and a gain in elevation of 100 feet. Not "mountain climbing" by any means but a fair uphill run. So I bale to with about 75 yards of the top of the field and the SP baler just comes to a dead stop.

My first thought was that I'd over greased one of the sheave sets ......... but the belt was dry. I called around looking for a can of belt dressing ......... no dice. An employee that commutes a fair distance drives close to a supplier of ours and I arrainge for him to pick some belt dressing up on the way to work.

So as I sit there wasting time, I think why not crawl under the machine again and do some snooping? (While I am waiting for the dressing)

After a cursory search I think I see something ......... returning armed with a 12" crescent, I find a sheave mounting bolt has backed out! So I tighten it up and I am happily back in business ..... after a phone call to stop my employee from getting the belt dressing .......... LOL!

Now, I am back into the groove but my employee is telling me to change up the bale length ...... I adjust, test and readjust ....... it's the old style that rides the bale length arm ......... I have never been fond of those ........ to unpredictable!

I get to where I think he wants it ....... and my baler's tool box lid that's got a broken hinge ...... works itself over to where the end of the lid is holding the bale length arm from resetting after initiating a tie cycle ......... the result is the knotter is now firing every baler stroke!

A real big mess real pronto!

After the clean up of the bill hooks etc. I find one of the knife arms has been bent due to the excessive pressure of riding out and over the mass of knots hung on the hook!

By the time I got done tuning the arm ......... bending and filiing ....... a very dry morning to boot ....... I get back long enough to see that things are back in business.

This morning was still super dry but the machine threw no punches and got back in my good graces unlike yesterday!

Life on the farm!

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I am enjoying reading your storys keep them coming Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Thanks nhbaler282!

I am glad someone enjoys it! I figure that there's some edjumuctation value embedded here and there for folks yearning to learn about balers as well?

Had another great trouble free run this early AM but dry as glass.

My fields are old as the hills and rougher than a cobb so instead of a "Supercruiser" as New Holland called them back in the day ......... it's more like a Superbouncer!

If anybody needs gophers for pets ...... I got them by the gross!

Three 44s


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

I look forward to your updates three44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Thanks clowers!

I got a new one coming on a side subject on these machines but I will post it in a day or two.

Right now, I gotta go wind it's tail up!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

We are now out of the fields and catching up on some needed maintenance.

We are also continuing to pursue the second of the twine knotter/cab equipped 1283's so there is a pair ready to go.

It was a bad time of year to fall into these machines but you can't pick timing when others are picking it for you .......... LOL!

Many of you warned me about the dust issue with these SP machines and I thought I was getting into a rough time the other day ....... I came down with a pretty serious sinus issue right near the end and had about two mornings to go ......

It turned out to be some sort of virus, but it was odd, as it sure fit the sinus regime ........ the head stuff, a lower back ache, super fatigue ......... but one other that did not fit ...........

............ I needed calf scour meds ........... just kidding .......... I left the calf meds on the shelf!

Then my wife came down with it ....... but she also got a $%%! of a sore throat ....... she's still fighting that one and I even took her to town and the docs said ......... no to antibiotic! No bacteria or strep throat ........... I was suprised, as she's a iron lady and NEVER goes down and here she wanted me to drive her in ......... so I knew she was really down!

She's better today after much needed rest and taking care of herself. (She does not run the baler so there is no common thread there)

The dust issue in the cab is still on the front burner and I am researching getting more air flow to better pressurize the cab and also working on resealing the old now leaky cab. I am thinking about another air cleaner outside of the cab .... and maybe a high end precleaner. We have a JD tractor and a Cat D9 both with the Turbo II precleaners on them.

With this baler, I was thinking about sizing large enough so I could pull engine and cabin air through it and through a paper filter, then splitting the air between the two jobs and on to their respective paper filter systems. There are inline fans that would seem to boost the air pressure ..... perhaps overcome the addition of the paper filter right after the Turbo precleaner?

We also pressed this first of the two cabbed/twine tie machines into service without getting the external lights working so that was taken care of yesterday ........ I did the baling from day break on ........ but now I will get some dark thirty action going!

We have an issue with the bill hook gear having too much slack on the cam gear ....... we think we sprung one of the knotter frames a while back ........ the bill hook came out of time ........ never been there before in 30 years with twine machines! They sure make buying those things painful these days!!

I am noticing a little vibration on the ground drive just lately when it's in the higher end of the variable drive range in the higher ground gears. My first fear was a bearing in a final drive or the transmission ...... it's possibe but as a precaution and because of the extreme prices for those parts and a lack of availability we changed all the gear oil in ALL the gear boxes and replaced them with a 2 part 90 wt to 1 part Lucas oil stabilizer before we ever pressed the baler into service. Since we notice the minor vibration only seemingly at the high end of the vari range in 2nd and 3 rd on the gear trans ......... I am leaning towards either of the external bearings on the belt shifting mechanisms and more likely the one on the transmission and clutch side. We'll see.

Also, the seat was adjusted for a shorter owner ......... oh and lighter too ........... LOL!

Drag the thing out and get at it with PB blaster! ........ the seat that is .......

A rough field and a poorly adjusted seat that has it's adjustments rusted in the wrong settings is not your friend on a self propelled hay baler.

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

We are all healed up and moving forward!

Got itch to mount a mirror so I can see into the header taken care of. I tried a flat mirror off a pick up and it was totally unsatisfactory .... too small a monitoring area ........... I could see about 1/4 of the width of the header.

So I went shopping!

I came home with an 8" round fish eye and re-modified my mounting bracket. Now I am happy, I can see about 85% of the header width and top to bottom ........... If I move it another 12" or so forward to around the back side of the flywheel, I'll have the whole header in view ........ but I am going to quit tweeking for the time being and put the old girl in the field and let the "chips fly".

We fixed the seat issue for the time being ....... the forward and back adjustment was partially missing and still is ....... and a previous owner had welded the far side solid. We cut it lose and then adjusted it and re-welded it ....... not much else we can do but we will revisit that ............ Likely an air ride seat?

The lighting is up and running as is the header, I added a LED back up light there.

I have some work to do to the knotter and then it's back to field work .......... I am anxious to try my new goodies!

Three 44s


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

I would be concerned that sharing a air filter between the engine and the cab that the engine would overpower the cab fan and steal all the air, maybe? Then for the humor in it, think of when the engine back fires.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Wethay,

You raise a good point. If I tried something like that I'd have a booster fan and there would be more filters than you are thinking I meant.

For a back fire to affect the cab it would have to pass the current engine filter and then the cabin air filter.

Specifically I was theorizing about a Turbo precleaner, a large paper filter ........... a booster fan, then split to the cabin air filter and the current engine filter.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

That makes more sense now. As long as your not pulling much vacuum at the split it sounds like you have it figured out. The booster fan should take care of the vac cum problem. Although I don't see any potential problems if the engine backfires I still find a bit of imagination makes the thought a bit more interesting. Of course you could make sure your cab intake fan is going and then give her a squirt of either to help starting. Yes I know that's not going to happen but it's a good thought to be a smart a*s about.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Wethay,

You've got me laughing now! LOL!

The starting fluid might not go the right way ........... could be in for a long nap ......... and at dark thirty ........ who needs an excuse?

What got me thinking about a shared precleaner was the high cost of the Turbo II unit but if I size it just a bit larger the price hardly jumps but I am getting two chickens in the roasting pot for the price of one ........... LOL!

A large air filter for the combined air made sense and then split it to the respective uses and then those all ready in place filters become secondary filters and would require less frequent cleanings and/or changes.

I see the booster fans listed at fairly cheap prices.

I'd move the intake to a point above the cab at the highest point I could get away with to get the cleanest air to begin with.

For a primary filter, I'd look at what is the most element for the dollars ........ one gets quite a suprise ........... some for whatever reason are higher than a cat's back and some really large ones (more surface area) are out and out CHEAP!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three 44s didnt you mention about some baler guru that told you to retard the timing on the feerer and it would make better bales? I read that somewhere and thought you was the one who posted it but I can't find it


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

We used to retard the timing in order to push more hay to the far side of the bale. Would center the pin on the right feeder mark. The retarded timing lets the teeth grab more hay. Its a trial and error thing and every baler will respond differently.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282 said:


> Three 44s didnt you mention about some baler guru that told you to retard the timing on the feerer and it would make better bales? I read that somewhere and thought you was the one who posted it but I can't find it


No, I was of the opposite stripe. The fellow I referred to had found his baler was doing better with advancing the cross feed.

The fellow that taught him that was of the opinion that an early release of the hay against the far side of the chamber allowed the flake more time to redistribute itself towards the center on strokes that were trending heavy to that side.

We followed that recommendation on the first and only 1283 we are running thus far and it did a fabulous job of making gun barrel straight bales in some less than ideal conditions. On some really rough ground where my ground speed was impared and where there were light windrows and where the material was prone according to my experience with other balers, it did produce some bananas but not a high percentage nor a large number of them.

Jay in WA also raises a good point, as he has had good results with the opposite adjustment.

So I think that a baler person would be wise to carefully try different approaches to find what works with their conditions and their baler.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Learning while working:

I had a field we needed to clean up prior to seeding alfalfa and the amount of material precluded just mowing so we windrowed it and baled it.

Big fluffy rows of mustard made a challenge to bale with success.

So I ran the feed fingers around but to no satisfaction ........ not enough material over on the far side of the bale in the chamber and the banana bales were driving my harrowbed opperator ....... well ..... bananas!

It was time to work with the timing. As I previously mentioned we had it running early ......... real early ...... and it worked great on alfalfa but now we were not cutting the mustard ......... sorry ....... pun intended!

So to better "cut the mustard" ...... well bale it ...... I ran the timing systematically over to retarded.

When I reached the far end of the late range I had a better bale ..... not perfect but mostly usable to get it on a harrow bed and out of the field.

I'd have to move my leading feed fingers back if I go any later than the edge of the late range.

So I'd say there is no perfect answer ...... try with caution until you reach satisfaction or as close as you care to inorder to get the job done!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

*The Dreaded Vari-Drive:*

We got bit by the Vari-Drive the other day!

I was baling along and all of a sudden I thought the Ford Six was seizing up!

I got an employee to come and watch what was turning and what was not and we determined that a bearing on the input shaft going into the clutch housing had froze up.

We have had some noise coming from the drive system for some time and could not figure it out ............ So now the mystery was solved!

We took it apart and saw that the fixed sheave was not so fixed and it had been ridding up on the bearing and likely ate up the outer seal.

On heading to town to pick up the bearings, I dropped by the local baler guru and his wife took me on a tour of her husband's treasures ...... she was promoting me to buy and buy often as they are moving to a new place after 45 years! For the life of me, I could not get her to price anything ............ a loyal spouse! The "guru" pulled in and after some good ribbing (I informed him she priced it all out and the deal was complete) and a good laugh .......... He knew better! We got down to the heart of the matter. The night before at the irrigation meeting he told me I'd better stop in ........... Boy was he right!

Now, with the master, we start touring the real treasures!

Bottom line I came away with the whole unit, the housing, clutch, sheave, the SHAFT.... complete ........... $200!

I picked up my bearings including the throwout bearing and headed for home. His fixed sheave was so tight we had to press it off and later we had to press it back on! I love it!

We were surprised that the bearings in that housing are only sealed on one side and I did not like that ...... it's like a set of wheel bearings, you pack them up and that is it ....... no grease fitting!

So after some consideration, we added a grease fitting! But we also added a plug that we will pull to relieve pressure as we grease the cavity.

It's not that the grease is expected to go anywhere ......... what my concern is that over time, the grease will get hard, hence the ability to purge the old stuff with some new.

This AM we got it all back together and tested it out.

I am primed for tomorrow morning!

Got my BABY BACK!

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

this a great continuing forum, here,s my little bit .there was not a lot of sp balers sent to australia,but a mate of mine has 2 two 1281,s sitting in a shed there both wire tie the original Wisconsin motors replaced with 4 cy deutze no cabs.in there day they were the duck,s guts.they probably did 40000 plus bales each year.before his dad passed away there where thoughts of converting the 16x18 to 14x18 the idea was to buy a new 575 and meld it into the 1281. Luckily that idea passed ,but the local NH guru Tommy Davidson always though it could be done .this guy converted a 1049s to pick up big squares long before mil stack. buy the way has anyone ever converted a 16x18 back to14x18 always heard talk. but never seen one


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282 said:


> Hallshay I wish you would tell us about the hydro you put on those balers what it came off of and how hard it was to replace,I have a 1282 and love it,I even made the chamber down to a 14+18 and put a plunger out of a 277 baler and it works like a charm. I did replace the vari drive pulleys and shaft a few years back it was worn and it would eat up those drive belts,and I still carry a spare in the front compartment,I might look into changing over to a hydro


Waldo,

nhbaler282 has done a 14x 18

Here we have pondered setting a 580 (16x18) atop a SP chassis to get a much later baler going. Several of the parts on the series's up through 426's have either gone away or are priced through the roof!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

threes I better not show my mate nhbaler282 work or it will go on his winter project. I assume you plate the chamber down from 16,, to 14,, just out of curiosity what are the freeman sp baler like.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

I don't know how he did it but it's seems likely he'd used a material to form a liner.

When I think of a conversion, I envision a baler switch but that's just me.

Freeman SP balers:

Old school ............... http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/eDetails/Freeman/370+SP/Baler-Square/For+Sale/eqID/644737/eID/43/loc/au-en/#

New school: ........... http://www.alliedsystems.com/freeman/370sp.htm

SP Big baler: ............ https://www.google.com/search?q=freeman+self+propelled+big+baler&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=763&tbm=isch&imgil=SwJRGf1OG9n9jM%253A%253B8keFEWv3pFa59M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffarmindustrynews.com%25252Fhay%25252Fnew-freeman-big-baler-greater-capacity-cuts-and-bales-same-time&source=iu&pf=m&fir=SwJRGf1OG9n9jM%253A%252C8keFEWv3pFa59M%252C_&usg=__Ve-Mml2QjXvpGcFsjHnvzg8F-sw%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjjot36lOXOAhUD72MKHVf9AEMQyjcIMw&ei=RmbDV-PnFoPejwPX-oOYBA#imgrc=SwJRGf1OG9n9jM%3A

Enjoy!

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44 it got the best of me and I told my mate about dropping new baler on to the sp .he would love to do it ,but as you know time,money and brain damage. All sow a lot of the old knowledge has been lost I, m 57 and was a kid when the baler guy would come out at night,or daylight and fix the baler.try that today with our young mech,s noway 7.30 am mornings tea at 10,or bring it into the work shop,I'm I showing my age!but I must admit the young guys are very good and do care about what they do.you blokes are probley the same as us short on agg mechanics ,why would you want to get all dirty and grease when you can be in a aircondition workshop working on cars.anyway you and my mate might work it out between you,s on how to drop a baler on the sp.anyway look after yourself waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

You are your own mechanic or it does not get done.

By the time you've had a 45 year old baler hauled to town, you might as well give it to them along with the deed to the ranch.

We have a local mechanic that was a real gem ........ about 7 miles from here and you took your equipment to him in his later years. He's still with us but fighting cancer ........ doing well presently actually ....... but out of the mainstream as far as work. When he went out and first free lanced, he'd make field calls. But even from his shop, he'd dole out advice ad infinity and if it warrented it, you could take it to him and one thing about it ........ it would work! The advice always cut it for us after he went shop exclusive.

The dealers have their mechanics but not so many really understand the nuences of an old grey haired baler ....... they know how to send you to a salesman to look at the new iron though.

If we don't know something, we network with other older farmers until something makes sense. In my case that would be the farmer I call the baler guru ....... he owned more SP New Holland Balers than Carter has pills during his time ....... he's still custom farming on a limited basis but mostly downsizing his operation. He had the small third lung lobe taken out last winter with a non cancerous growth ...... he attributes it to fine dust on SP balers but I know he was into much more than that ..... he roofed at the Government's local nuclear facility as well at other jobs for years and I believed smoked at one time.

When he's gone, we'd have better have his "brain picked" or we'll be S-O-L because between him and the fellow fighting cancer ........ that's about it for brain power!

Your mate will have to do some measuring as to whether a lighter baler will fit the chassis of the SP but one thing about it ......... where there is a "will", there is usually a way!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three 44s,I thought about putting another baler on the 1282 but measured all the 14/18 and they were just too small mostly too short in the front so I decided to put a plunger in it from a 277 which is the smaller sister to the 282 and then made a new floor about 2 inches higher,had to raise the bottom hay dogs up but kept the same needles and knotters in the same spot,took a little figuring but it works like a charm


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282,

That's pretty sharp!

Thanks for the specifics, I thought the top of the chamber would have to remain in the same spot because of the knotter clearance being critical.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

The chambered Freeman balers shim the bottom of the bale chamber.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Hello Jay in WA,

Makes sense.

From 1973 until '93 we had a 200W pto but in the year of the ash, we lost the bull gears ..... not because of the ash but because we were not paying enough attention to the 'ole girl!

We ended up trading it and a scab tractor in on a NH 1118 swather.

We are welders and certainly could have fixed the gears ....... you weld them up and rotate to the other side but the killer was always replacing the knotters to go to twine.

When we bought the Freeman, we went to the factory to pick it up ........ it was sort of like coming to our ranch .......... a lot of old buildings ....... old school craftsmanship and built to last!

We viewed our NH's at that time as two ply beer can school and they are but quickly found out that our baler man was sneeking beer onto the job because he tore the Freeman into three pieces one night ..........

And along the way we realized that given a modecom of respect even a two ply beer can could do a lot of work as well.

Our fields have a lot of alkali spots and on the upper fields in particular, a lot of dry spots ...... the Freeman was notorious for making banana bales in those light spots .... we never got even close to whooping that one.

Other than that ...... they are the Cadillac of balers!

One day I made a major boo boo: I was greasing the Freeman and elected to do the bull gears first ........ we did them by hand and then without moving it, I greased all the zirks ....... needless to say, open gear grease is a little too much for a full head of hair ..... it's amazing the dumb things you do when you are twenty something and you think you are on track!

I went home and into the shower with a can of WD 40 .......... never shampooed with WD 40 before or since but on that day ........ it was the thing to DO!

Thanks and best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three44s said:


> *The Dreaded Vari-Drive:*
> 
> We got bit by the Vari-Drive the other day!
> 
> ...


Three 44s you came across a deal on that complete clutch housing,you need to let me have that one they are hard to find especially down here, nobody ran the selfpropelled or the 290,this area was still plowing with mules when every where else had tractors


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

nhbaler282 said:


> Three 44s you came across a deal on that complete clutch housing,you need to let me have that one they are hard to find especially down here, nobody ran the selfpropelled or the 290,this area was still plowing with mules when every where else had tractors


Now, I'd really like to help a friend but I only got one spare!

We turned back to the other twine SP 1283 that we got tore down and I shook the shaft on it where we just rebuilt our running machine ...... and it's sloppy! Well, we tore it down because the motor and fuel tank are still off it ......... but the bearings are ok but we will change them and it's the bore in the housing that's loose.

So there goes that spare housing!

The take off housing on the not running baler is usable but we will shelve it for a future need.

You are dead on however, these machines are generally scarcer than hen's teeth! If it weren't for my long time friend and shirt tail relative, the guy I call the baler Guru who spent a lifetime with these machines and the fact that he's tapering off his custom farming ....... I'd not be in the place I am in right now.

In his day, he'd NEVER let go of those parts or they'd be priced like GOLD!

............. and I don't blame him!

Now keep this in mind, there is a shop on the west side of my home state that rebuilds shafts and recuts splines for a fraction of new prices ...... which in the case of these balers is a non-starter .... there is NO new.

As far as the bearing bores on the housings, a loose one I surely believe could be brought back a number of ways .......

And if one had to ......... there is always chucking the Vari-drive and going hydrostatic.

Thats where our head is down the road when we are forced to cross that bridge.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Well I am glad you was luck enough to find it,the 290 used the same engine and the same housing etc. Yeah I would like to know more about converting to a hydrostatic just in case I need to one day. On my 1282 it was making a noise in the bellhousing and I taken it apart and that bearing behind the pulley was going bad glad I stopped and fixed it before it tore up the housing,the shaft and flex plate have a lot of wear on them but it still going


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

If only I had known that someone would be crazy enough to do what you are doing a few years back. I scrapped a running 1283. The pulley came apart on the big belt. 
I sold a perfectly good running one and scrapped the other. I am certain that it had many, many good parts on it. I sold the cab and tires etc first though. I think the needles and a steering cylinder are still around here somewhere.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Lostin55,

A few years back I did not know I'd get into this situation. But fate is funny that way.

If you come up with parts let me know, I'd be interested.

We look down the road from here and we see running out the clock on these baler/transport units as they were designed ........ switching them to hydrostatic as we can't keep the Vari-drives going and cannibalizing one unit at a time for parts to keep the balance going.

Balers can be had for some time ......... We have pondered a 580 NH baler mounted on one at some point ........ but there are a lot of combine ground drives around and if one is starting at that level why not get a transport unit that is more bullet proof and one that has better manufacturer support?

I really like baling with a SP unit. I like the awesome manuverability, the ability to match the baler to the windrow and ground conditions, the visibility, the better monitoring of the baler (misties or coming apart) ............... less ground compaction. I also like NOT tying up an additional tractor.

There is no doubt that you get more dust off these machines as they are ....... their design shortcuts and also due to the age and former abuse ....... but where there is a will ...... there is a way to basically eliminate that issue. One will still drag more "stuff" into the operating station ..... but that's minor and there are ways to reduce that as well.

Thanks and best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s the freight would probably kill any idea of sending parts from oz to you.but if it ever comes where you run out of parts god forbide you need .we might be able to find them here .since last dispatch I, ve seen another 1281 in a shed,and it,s string tis. Anyway keep the dream alive waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for thinking of me when you saw that machine, but you are spot on ......... the freight would be attrocious ........... I must assume.

Now, perhaps that machine ought to have your name on it? Give it a go!

I am not worried on my end. Nothing lasts forever ...... you take care of things as best as you can and the chips fall where fate leads them ..... there are machines around ........ and they are likely more numerous here in the States than anywhere else in the world ...... after all here is where they were "hatched out" .........

And if it all goes to hadies ........ I've still got my tractor pull balers, and there are always more to be had .......... but don't be shocked if I stick one of them on top of a combine axle and put a glass bubble on top of it with a steering wheel!

I think a Hydro JD 6620/NH 580 has a certain ring to it?

Best regards and thanks

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I can remember a cousin with the m dealership putting a baler into 587 sp header,not sure what happened to that project,but they did have it working.then one day going past neighbors 2 sp cat lexicon headers with 8x4x3s balers on them.ithogh glutton for punishment, one or the the other would be a handful to keep going .you never know my friend with a little help from a few cold one,s might get started on that project.anyway Threes44s. how many little fellows do you put up a year.after doing big bales for years, I, m finding it more profitable to to do little bales in oz dollars Lucerne prime for horse hay ex farm 12 dollars a bale oaten wheaten or pastures hay 10 dollars.the reason most of the big hay operations thinks it,s to much work ,so this has left a short in small bale supply. Anyway we will probably import to 5070 balers from the us this year.50000 oz dollars here on tractor house I, ve seen them for 23000 us or less. 7000 for a 40 foot cotainer 2500 for all other makes it a goer


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo

I think we were at 1000 tons of hay put up in 16x18 at our peak. We average 95# so that pencils out to around 21,000 bales.

We have not been producing in acres or yield since then but we are ramping up again. We had two PTO balers running at time and it worked but too much for one baler.

Three 44s


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Self propelled NH balers are a rarity in West OZ. Ihad heard of them but not known of any locally. Low and behold there is one being advertised a 1282 for, WAIT FOR IT, $12,000.00.

At that price it is not on my bucket list.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Coondle,

Twelve grand for a 1282? ....... won't be on my bucket list either!

I acquired three 1283's and two 1281's for $3800 this past May .......... that's more my speed!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Coondle I saw that baler on gumtree ,it was 19,000 before.basically you could not give one away. Main reason is everyone from the truck guys produce and the horse people want 14x18 bales.we get 10 high on a flat top but only 9 with the 16x18.5 x15 packs 75 bales ,and I really d,nt know what happened to all the 16x18 baler I expect the scrap man probably saw a few of them.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44 we probably run a very simular operation to you,60% Lucerne 40 oats forage barley,rhodes grass and for the first time timmothy hay. And the dreaded horse person main clients. What do you use to put up your little bales.anyway I better go back and check the flood water very wet year here a bit of free irrigation waldo


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The advertisement says the SP 1282 baler is "rare". I do not think that is correct.

At $12000 I would say it would be an endangered species and very close to extinct.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

$12000 for a 1282. Someone has had way too much to drink. That baler is nearly 50 years old and obsolete.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo said:


> Threes44 we probably run a very simular operation to you,60% Lucerne 40 oats forage barley,rhodes grass and for the first time timmothy hay. And the dreaded horse person main clients. What do you use to put up your little bales.anyway I better go back and check the flood water very wet year here a bit of free irrigation waldo


Waldo,

We run alfalfa as the main hay crop and rotate with a cereal grain also put up as hay. For years, we were running beardless barley and it's a good one but lately I have been running beardless Triticale and it's a show stealer.

I have also played with Sudan grass and by extension would also like to see what the Sorghum-Sudans have to offer but we are at 2000 foot elevation and have a shorter growing season than down the valley and there is a question whether it will perform enough to justify the added seed cost.

My water source is a deep ..... very deep well and it's producing sodium and it looks like sudan grass and perhaps it's cousins eat it ........ The sodum sort of sneeked up on us an intitial water test did not reveal any but water being what it is, we needed to deepen this well a short time after it was drilled and that's when we picked it up and why we were blind sided by it .......... a long history of pumping it at a low rate has added up to a big problem and we reached a tipping point.

It's always something.

We run 16x18 small bales here and our pull balers are a 286 and 425 NH and right now I am doing everything with a 1283 SP from the batch I bought this past May.

If I acquire one twine knotter, I have the potential to run three 1283's with cabs, we are still working on the second of them and as we have issues with the first, we are making the repairs to the second machine in advance of it failing ....... mostly bearing replacement. If I come across a twine knotter for a 281, one of the 1281's would run again ....... we will draw straws for who sits outside on that one ...... LOL! (I have a couple of helmet/filtered air systems on hand)

By the time we get to number three of the 1283's ......... we will be "dangerous"! (Too smart for our own good?)

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Coondle said:


> The advertisement says the SP 1282 baler is "rare". I do not think that is correct.
> 
> At $12000 I would say it would be an endangered species and very close to extinct.


The seller wants somebody with enough money burning a hole in their pockets to believe that.

The 282 balers ..... as all it's earlier and later cousins were drilled and punched out for all the possible variations at the factory.

So what you have in ecesence is two machines ......... a standard hay baler and a self-propelled chassis that it's sitting on.

The beauty here is that you find a creme puff baler of that stripe and switch out.

So the key is to preserve the transport mechanisim with great diligence because if anything is rare ............. it is before the balers are.

Now you add 50 to 60 years to the process and things start getting interesting.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA said:


> $12000 for a 1282. Someone has had way too much to drink. That baler is nearly 50 years old and obsolete.


*No, the seller has run out of money to buy with and needs a donor!*

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

And I know you probably find a 281 knotters there but I can put my hands on a set.with your sodium problem I think the rice guys done south from me have the same problem .not sure but do you use gypsum to nutralize the sodium. Most of the rice boys are on channels with water from rivers,they mix that with the bore water.Lucerne can only be grown with the mix.we also out west from us have artisan, bore water this comes up from a couple of thousands feet down,and in the years back it would just flow into a drain and run for miles,for stock water.it came up under pressure so no pumps.but after years of running like this the pressure dropped. So the goverment have funded capping all the free running bores.this water comes up warm and is only used for stock.you probably have your own people working on your sodium but if you need any help I do know guys with the same problem.hope l can help you out


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the offer!

I use elemental Sulphur and a product called Wet Sol. We have a D9 cat we have done some deep ripping with and will likely include that more in the future. Another route would be to install and run a sulphur burner, but they are expensive to buy. One can build one though but you have to do it right as the gas given off is toxic. I should look at gypsum to see which delivers the best bang for the buck though.

I also inquired into reverse osmosis to intercept the sodium prior to application but it's still too expensive and you have to waste about 20 to 25% of your water to transport the salt somewhere.

So I am looking at a crop that better eats sodium ....... and that may be Sudan grass (Sorghum-Sudan crosses come to mind to add nutrition to the feed mix).

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I talk to a few of the rice guy,s and gypsum is their weapon of choice. They spread about 2 ton to the acre first up ,then depending on soil test 1 ton ever secound year it cost about 75 dollars a ton spread.but the gypsum might not be the be all either. If I remember gypsum has salt as well.a lot of work has been done here on salinity. What some of the Lucerne, people find the deep rippin helps what type of soil you have ,like heavy clays the gypsum work,s very well any way have a good weekend waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

I need to do some testing with Gypsum and see how it stacks up with elemental Sulphur.

My S treatments generally run about 100# of actual with a material cost of about $26 per acre and a charge for a spreader of a $1.50 or $2 per acre with our tractor and labor on top of that. Typically, a 100# would last about 2 years. We got a bunch on at double that rate when the stuff was a lot cheaper once by accident ........... the stuff was $13 a CWT. then and my bill went from an estimated $4500 to over nine grand just on S and I hit the ceiling ......... the supplier split the charge over two years because the field man was supposed to calibrate their spreader and did not.

That 200# did a nice job however and if the stuff was not so expensive, I'd likely run it out that heavy on purpose in the future.

We are also short on phosphorus, zinc, boron and manganese. You can tie up some serious dough in that stuff if you aren't careful!

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Well, we have had a hectic two past weeks in the world of SP balers!

First a fire ............ well a little biddy one ........ I poured my water jug on it but had a dry fill ext. right there just in case ......... a bunch of fine dust was built up behind the exhaust manifold. For next season, I am going to add a pressurized water outfit.

Next, we lost a hydraulic pump ....... that's my first failure in 45 years! But I changed pumps.. a real bear on a self-propelled! Now it worked at the shop ...... and out in the field ........ but not the next morning with the dew!

Man was I ticked!

So, Labor Day morning, I switched the valve body ........ also nice ........ you take off a big rear drive tire to change that!

Did not work!

So for two days, I was "with dew" but without a baler ....... yes, I know there is a price for playing with "old stuff"!

But there is also a PRICE for playing with new stuff and then I see the town mechanics feeding off the customers of that shiny iron as well............. double dipping if you will!

We ended up with third pump on there before things got sorted out! We put some oil in the tank, installed a pressure guage and run it up with a air impact wrench! 600 psi in no time! 200 psi by HAND!

We got good hydraulic response NOW!

And a couple of mornings ago, my baby sheared both bolts ......... and nailed both needles .......

This has been a running gunning deal with this unit since before we bought it and resurrected it!

The guy that sold it to me made it sound like it was a thing that just had surfaced right before he parked it ............ but the "baler guru" spilled the beans this afternoon .......... he knew it to be a problem child for sometime ...........

I am undeterred ........... we WILL find it!

When we took possession of it ......... it was said to shear both bolts every 10 to 25 bales ....... this last instance was 3,700 bales in the making ..........

I call that progress!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

THREES44S THE biggest problem our Lucerne grower had here is we were told by dad and gran dad you d,ont need to put any thing on the Lucerne it,s good soil In the 70,s we could cut 1 1/2 to 2 ton to the acre . Today really have to push to get a bit over a ton.my farm is on a river and flooding at the moment, this is the best thing for the Lucerne if it survive,s.l want have to irrigate those paddocks for 2 year,s or so. I pump out of the river and when I run out of river allocation I have to shallow bores but are a pain to use because they are high in iron and 4 times more salty then the river.we irrigate through centre pivot handshift and powered rolline.anyway back to Lucerne 4 years ago started doing plant tissue test and now put a brew of potash sulfur molybdenum boring and the kitchen sink.it will take time and lot,s and lot,s of dollars but after 100 year,s of taking out and not putting anything back in that,s to be expected. HAS been a miserable week here rain flood,s and to cap it off had my best mate the dog run over and killed,anyway it can only get better from here.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

I am sorry about the loss of your dog, mine are my unconditional friends and helpers as they are cattle dogs. They don't think I can do anything without them and they are probably right!

Alfalfa certainly has requirements and after 50 years of drawing nutrients off our ground, the "piper" must be paid!

We have too much potash but too little phosphorus, boron, zinc and manganese. Adding sulphur helps to a point.

We run all wheel lines and I have been working with running some of the nutrients through the water. Dry application is still the back bone of our work though.

Three 44s


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Do you need some needles? I believe that I have a set off the 1283 around somewhere.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s yes the ute was certainly emptier this morning ,and unfortunately the last of the line,I have german koolie,s.their what the australian Sheppard come from , she was like a shadow with me ,it will be a quite few weeks.when you say cattle dog,s do you mean the blue heeler. They are a great dog with cattle,and make the best mate you can ever have.to make things worse ,pip the dog that was run over her mother has cancer,and I, m not game to tell anyone what that,s costing at the vet,s.the koolie,s are great worker,s and d,nt know when to stop when working.the livestock carrier use them in their sheep crates as their small and learn fast.over here if want to upset the die in the wool kelpie owner,s you tell them the koolie will out work and out think their kelpie, s. Anyway time time heal,s but I wont replace here for a while if you have net flick,s try and find a movie called red dog.it ,s a ozzie movie and based on a true story ,you might need a box of tissues to watch it but a grate movie thank,s for the thoughts waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Lostin55,

Yes, I can use needles. I am fine right now with just one machine running.

Next season will be a different story and spares are good to have.

I have been welding up the set I am using, have a pair to weld up for the other twine 1283 that we are still working on ......... but I also have a wire 1283 that I'll be looking for a twine knotter for ........ so a set of twine needles would be required there.

So yes, I am in the market for more.

The style we use are the ones with the saddle built right into the needle and bolt front and back of the needle yoke.

Three 44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

My two are a pure bred Border Collie and the other is a mix of half Blue Heeler, quarter Australian Shepard and quarter Catahoula. The Catahoula are an unofficial breed from the south east of the US. They are VERY expressive .......... and LOVE MUD! We refer to our 1/4 Catahoula dog as our "Louisiana Swamp Dog"! The vocalizations of the Catahoulas will leave you in stitches!

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Check the needle safety because it should have prevented baling the needles.

Check the knotter stack adjustment. If its too loose the gears will bind up and break the shear bolt. Needle safety still should have protected the needles on the next stroke though.

Years ago we had a baler breaking needles. The yoke had cracked and allowed the needles to move around.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay in WA said:


> Check the needle safety because it should have prevented baling the needles.
> 
> Check the knotter stack adjustment. If its too loose the gears will bind up and break the shear bolt. Needle safety still should have protected the needles on the next stroke though.
> 
> Years ago we had a baler breaking needles. The yoke had cracked and allowed the needles to move around.


Thanks Jay in WA,

The needle safety was gone over when we first started working on this machine back in May. It was completely out of wack. About a month ago, we lost one needle (welded it back) and found our jam nut had backed off ....... we doubled it up. This latest wreck is the first time we have broken a needle(s) where there was not an excuse for the safety to not work.

The knotter shear bolt has been letting go almost exclusively just as the needles are leaving the chamber, the gears are back in park and the knots are complete.

I have looked the needle yoke over several times but that does not mean there still is not something there. There is a frame reinforcement on the transport frame that is very close to the needle yoke passes by and we noted the yoke flexing before we ground it out there. The off side, in this case the left end of the yoke was popping out on the return stroke when under power. After we ground out the added steel on the transport frame, no more jumping out.

We did find a gear binding a while back and addressed that.

I have a couple of issues I've been watching:

I see that the point where the knotter pins have been shearing is also just where the needle yoke is starting to roll up on the needle yoke latch roller. The arm it works from is getting a little sideways and the roller gets out of line. I cracked a knotter shaft years ago on our 425 because that arm was out of wack and the roller was locking up on the yoke but I would not think that coming home and rubbing on the inside of the guide washer would cause this problem. No matter, I am going to change the bushing the arm itself pivots on to keep things in line just in case. I washered the roller over but it's not cutting it yet.

Second, the baler is mounted at several points to the transport chassis but inside of the rear end of the chamber has both bolts sheared. It rests squarely on the SP frame and can't go sideways but it may be raising up.

We would have fixed it as soon as I spotted it but the nuts are inside a square tube frame and welded in thus it's more of a winter job to get to.

Most if not all the knotter pins have sheared on really rough ground and going downhill.

If I had a lot of baling left, I'd toy with welding the baler bracket to the frame ...... I have an arc air torch and could zip it off in a heart beat ............ For now if the hay is light, I just throttle down and refrain from letting the baby lose on the ground speed.

You can bet that we will pull that yoke out and really go over it in good light and those broken cap screws on the baler mount will be history one way or the other when the snow is flying!

Thanks

Three 44s


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Seems that someone else is hotting the bandwagon. A second machine has popped up here, about an hour's drive from the previous one mentioned, and this one is not just "Rare" but "Very Rare and unique".

The price is even better.



*RARE New Holland 1282 Self propelled Baler*

*$22000.00*

Northam, WA

Very Rare and unique New holland 1282 self prop...

*View Ad >*


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

That cab is a RIOT!

This makes my investment look golden!

My machine I call "Dinky" ......... a wire 1281 has a Ford 4 cyl. water cooled engine that sports 50 psi oil pressure.

I would it rather had a 282 baler and a twine knotter however. I'd have the super sweep header that way. Some '81s had it as an option but just try to get one of those ....... scarcer than hen's teeth!

In fact I have our old 282 on blocks but it's a wire machine as well.

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

True bit of inovative genius, that cab alone would make the asking price.you will probably find the owner of these baler no absolutely nothing about hay gear but heard from a mate who,s cousin, who,s mother in law and the bloke down the road said they were rare .so the baler he bought at a sale for a thousand dollars has to be worth 22,ooo, in anyone's money.anyway you two look after yourselves, I, m getting ready for flood number 3 waldo


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

That baler is living proof that legal pot has messed up peoples thinking ability. Its still over priced at one tenth that price.

I grew up on NH 282 balers although they were pull type. Too many bad memories to pay much for them.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s I looked up pictures of your Catahoula breed and they look very much like the German koolie.very simular marking do you do much stock work with them .I find the koolie a great general purpose dog in their history the also have a bit of the blue heeler. I suppose you guys in wa wouldn't do any sheep work.in the winters we run lambs to fatten on the Lucerne, and in a good year the return of the lambs would be better then Lucerne. But with winter snows in northern parts of the state's that wouldn't be a goer,and I really have not much idea about the sheep job in the us.mined you the us is our biggest market. So what happens with your Lucerne in the winter months


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

There are sheep here in Wa state but the Catahoulas might be a little rough on them. I think that Border collies are a staple for the sheep folks here and the Australian Shepards are second.

A lot of folks like a cross of those two.

A Australian Shepard with sheep has to be a more mild one and the tough ones are too rough.

As a cattle man, I like my border collie female for ordinary work and my heeler/australian sheppard/catahoula cross for shaking things up.

My dogs don't get a lot of work because I spend a lot more time farming than moving cattle around. Here at home much of our cattle moving consists of calling the cows and getting out of the way! I have employees and friends that are more inclined to get on a horse to do the moving if it requires a horse.

I can get out in front of those cattle and with one call draw those cattle away from them ...... LOL!

In the mountains we also call our bossies and have some nice alfalfa hay to give them for a treat ...... we then push them in the corral and load the trucks. The riders then go out and look for the outliers.

Our alfalfa freezes down in early November and is dormant until late March or early April. We graze off our "last cutting" after the killing frost. We generally snow up around Christmas and have gotten the fields cleaned off by then. Some years we get more snow early but the cows will plow snow to get the recently frosted standing hay ..... the exception is if there is a rain and hard freeze on the snow and it's crusted. That hits the cattle hard on the bridge of their noses. If the snow stays soft, they wiill "fight a buzz saw" to keep eating green feed.

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I thong that winter freeze, and snow would hamper feeding stock. Where I live in nsw it might get down to a bar my minus 3 no snow and that,s with out global warming.still in mourning yet but will have to think seriously about the next partner. one of the farmer,s here goes regularly to your state, he import,s twin star rakes,they sell very well here.I still run a few bovine,s and a soft spot for the red and whites .but like everywhere else. Black,s are 30 cent a kilo over the rest.just to bring me up to speed,we sell dollars per a kilo store sales here have seen 200 kilo steer,s making 5 dollar,s a kilo really unbelievable price,s. That,s 760 us a head.I have confidence in the cattle job but those prices makes buying in store a bit risky. I still sell through the fisical auction but on line is really taken off.anyway give the dogs a pat for me waldo


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

The Twinstar rakes are built in Mikes back yard. I own two for them myself. By far the best rake on the market.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Jay in wa I suppose the boys have sold 40 to 50 t twinstars that,s only a educated guess they keep things pretty close to their chest.years and years ago there was the Allan, then they went of the scene here,so Rollabar wise only the 216 new holland.the twins tar runs rings around the 216.I think the boys at twins tar have made a few more updates to the rake tyres were the only problem with them .also running into a tree that w,nt move at night.not a pretty site.so what's the history of twins tar and what happen to Allen, buy the way what are you guys paying for the g7 waldo


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Jay in wa I suppose the boys have sold 40 to 50 t twinstars that,s only a educated guess they keep things pretty close to their chest.years and years ago there was the Allan, then they went of the scene here,so Rollabar wise only the 216 new holland.the twins tar runs rings around the 216.I think the boys at twins tar have made a few more updates to the rake tyres were the only problem with them .also running into a tree that w,nt move at night.not a pretty site.so what's the history of twins tar and what happen to Allen, buy the way what are you guys paying for the g7 waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Hey guys, I escaped ...... so don't pay the ransom!

Actually, I have been preoccupied with a cougar eating our cattle. Still don't have him though.

On our farm we have not gotten too technical with raking as it usually ends in disaster ........... we either get blown away or just too dry.

We do have to rake after extended rains on heavy windrows but it's just stock cow hay after that.

Our fields are up on a bench that's about 200 feet plus above the adjacent valley and the wind blows all night much of the time. We get what I call a true dew in the third cutting but even that can be hit or miss. The second cutting is a powder keg!

The twin star rake is made right in my "wheel house" so to speak and by all accounts it's a fine piece of machinery!

The last few years, I have been watching the Stalhi West steamer unit as it progresses. There are none in my area but some in the Moses Lake area on some big balers. The biggest draw back is that I don't have a "printing press" to hammer out the $180,000 it takes to own one ....... or the $200,000 to buy a tractor to pull one ........... or the $140,000 for the baler to put behind the back of one.

My market is with the horse people and that makes it a "two tie" game .....................

I thought that Dave Stahli would have gone back to the small balers where he started with his endeavor by now but he has not. Red tape being what it is ........... if he did it now, it would likely only bring the price down a few thousand anyway!

We here have looked at going at it ourselves. There are patents involved ........... the life of some of which are either about out or out and others aging gracefully.

The clincher as I see it is that Stahli uses a boiler to keep things simple ........... I am looking at using coils.

A boiler brings the government down your neck BIG TIME, coils don't.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s well that,s one problem l don't have is big cat,eating stock a bit different up north they have croc,s and large among, s of them. Here only fox,s and in the hiller country wild dog,s and pig,s.On the steaming hay,two brothers here tried that about 40 year,s ago,spent a small fortune but never got it to work right.there is 20 of stalhi machines here and by all accounts working well.for the export hay guys their getting 5 to 600 bales a day where they could, nt bale for being to dry .I think for us little bale people,it's like you said ,a little bite to pricee I must ask one of the boy,s that have one if they need a boiler ticket to use it.by the way are your big cat,s protected, and the bear,s.the croc,s are here waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Waldo,

Here we have stringent safety issues over boilers and mandatory inspection regiments over them due their potential explosive nature. Our water source is very high in minerals. In the course of the inspections any deposits inside the boiler found leads to hell to pay. At least in my home state that's the way it is in commercial boilers connected with stationary applications.

That's why we are looking at steam generating coils which are much less onerous and much easier to construct.

A small baler steam needs are much less so the added bulk of coils is not as much of a problem.

The cat we are dealing with is a cougar and he's gotten a 700 to 750 pound bull thus far, he was spotted in broad daylight last Tues. afternoon staking out two more cattle within a stone's throw from his first kill. The two guys that spotted it ran it off. No guns at hand though. They took turns kicking each other however .......... LOL!

I am just glad for that moment they ......... one saw it ............ and two ......... interrupted it. We had cougar kills off and on since 2005. The first big attack involved a horse that got away, and a cow and 1300# bull that did not. The next attack was two years later, then two more and the last suspicioned one in 2010. But in reflection there was a string of losses in 2011 or 2012 in a steep ravine that I am convinced were cat as well. When you add it up over time, it is certainly no "chicken feed". Around ten head all total and only one of them was an animal (a 275# calf) of a size that would not be too hard to imagine.

The party with jurisdiction is an indian tribe and their salaried hunter was on the ground within two hours. We spent sometime getting willing hound hunters in line and the first one was on the ground the next evening and got some old strikes with the dogs but nothing to run.

With this cat, it's a wait and see game and you never know what time span they are running. Generally they can be very regular though almost clock like.

One thing in our favor is that this cat is noted as having small lungs for it's size ........ they are by their anatomy a sprinter by nature. If you get a set of good hounds on top of a fresh track ...... the run is almost always a short one ............ a mile or less. There are exceptions and those are almost legendary.

One sheep outfit many years ago went broke over one bad cat ............ I think that cat racked up several hundred lost and was NEVER gotten. It was VERY cunning at losing the hounds in some immense rock outcroppings. While we are "gifted" with some nice rock structures, nothing here will stop the hounds for more than a brief work around.

The cat here has protection to a degree but has a regular hunting season off the reservation but is reviled by the tribe we are working with and our State has no jurisdiction over them.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s that is some problem ,I think if I came face to face with old mate the cougar, I bet I could run over water.the guys with the wild dog problems are really up against the wall These dogs have been pig dogs left behind. Or dingo, s,the dingo is a native dog,you problem remember from Linda chamberlain bay taken at Ayer, s rock. With the dingo the goverment constructed a dig proof fence from queensland through south australia to nsw border, the longest fence in the world.full time job repairing it.you know the glen camellia song working as the Wichita lineman,ten time worse. The fence would run through country probably like your Mexico us border.the problem now is there more wild dogs on the wrong side of the fence.These dogs will pull down cattle as well as sheep.we do have eagles the wedge tail big bird but I think smaller than the bald eagle.I suppose if ranching was easy everyone would do it we sell our cattle cents per kilo and yours are bollards per a cat weight so how much are yearling steers making in your paddock. Back to the steam boiler we have same laws as your state.you can bet if one of the steamers blows the proburbal will hit the fan.so I take it with the steam coils you run hot steam water through,the coils.if you could get the coils working you could become 9 to 5 hay presser Its about 1 month from hay season here and it hasn't stopped raining,the forecast is wet till January not looking like being a good hay season anyway look after yourself and I hope your cat problems get solved waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

In 2010, we had a worker come face to face with that big cat. Fortunately, he'd just been schooled on what to do in such an instance.

The guy was armed with nothing but a hand shovel and was standing less than 30 feet from it. The cat was laying down under an edge of wild rose bushes resting and sitting out a brief rain shower with it's eyes half open.

Here's what the guy did and it was right:

He maintained eye contact and slowly backed out 180 yards through more of those rose bushes in the open spaces cattle keep that way.

It's a story that's somewhat humerous now but then it was pretty scarry.

The cat did not follow him fortunately.

But Waldo, let me assure you .......... if you run .......... it ain't pretty! Running incites their charge!

I arrived with guns and my cattle dogs a short time later and the cat had snuck out the back door.

The rain fell that night and by the time we got a houndsman in the next morning the scent had been washed away.

Several years ago, a State game warden was called to a site where a domestic animal was alleged to have been killed by a cougar. The game agent had one of those hair standing up on his neck moments as he left his vehicle and grabbed his duty shotgun.

As he approached the kill site, a cat charged him from 75 yards. The officer began firing his .357 revolver in front of the cat to blow dirt in it's face. Unconvinced the cat continued the charge and the officer threw his revolver down in the dirt and shouldered the shotgun.

The cat was stopped at the officer's feet with a load of lead to it's head.

We are going to see how best to apply the steam after we get to generating it. It's going to be a trial and error for some time but one thing we have in our favor is that we have been adapting to this problem ever since our first alfalfa was planted there in 1969.

We cut on wet ground in hot weather and chase our side roll sprinklers with the swather. The night breeze blows the spray back towards the windows. The most help comes from humidity rising up from the damp ground into the bottom of the windrow. It surely slows our drying time but it's been the only way without some sort of game change. The spray from the sprinklers helps just around the margins where we almost got a dew.

So what I am getting at is that if the steam can just help the top of the windrow we are gaining big.

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> The knotter shear bolt has been letting go almost exclusively just as the needles are leaving the chamber, the gears are back in park and the knots are complete.


Knotter shear bolts shearing at the end of the knotter cycle would make me think that the knotter clutch pawl and the clutch stop are not disengaging easily enough. I have seen that happen on the D1000.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> Knotter shear bolts shearing at the end of the knotter cycle would make me think that the knotter clutch pawl and the clutch stop are not disengaging easily enough. I have seen that happen on the D1000.


The clutch is definitely on my mind, the gear lash and possible fracture on the needle yoke as well.

And ...... actually it's just about at the end of the cycle but not quite ........ the bill hook and twine disc gear that run against the cam gear are parked but the knotter is not all the way home.

Two days ago it sheared both pins again and for the second time all summer the knotter pin sheared with those small gears just barely parked but the knots were never the less complete ..... this time the needles did not wreck like the other shorter cycle.

This baler is really going to get a through go over this winter on this issue ....... it puts up as pretty a bale as any New Holland I have ever seen and that includes a 580 that was brought in by a custom operator to help me catch up several years ago.

One thing about it. We have brought it down from wrecks every 9 to 25 bales to stretches as long as 3000 bales between shearings. Our needle wrecks for the summer has been one needle once and both needles once ............ not something to brag about but it is definite progress compared to the previous owner.

We observe this problem with two different knotters with their respective clutches, so the baler itself and the needle yoke and it's related hardware are the common parts involved it would seem but one can't entirely rule out those other components.

Thanks for the input, it all adds up ....... we will overcome it with the help of this forum!

Best regards

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

One of my neighbors is running a steamer with a pair of Hesston inline 2 tie balers behind it. I have not seen it run but he says its working well. Something to be aware of with steamers though is that the bales have to cool before stacking them. How long that takes will depend upon how much steam your using.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Thanks Jay,

I was reading that from somewhere .......... the cut off for baling big bales was something like 95 degrees F as they got so hot because of so much steam needed along with the ambient air temp that they were afraid they could combust even if they sat in the field.

I think two things: The temp will be less critical with small bales because they will cool much faster than the biggies ...... and that one of my SP balers has the spike on it's plunger face ...... that would allow heat transfer much faster.

Granted, it's an issue no matter how you are putting up the hay. Also, I am not going to get to the real heavy steam added values right away .... a supplemental program at best for some time .. the heavy doses can't likely be applied unless we are with a pull baler, steamer in the middle and a good sized tractor pulling it all. These poor little self propelled balers don't strike me as huge ground tuggers ......... what with the Vari drive.

We got lots of stuff to consider and cliff hangers to dodge!

Thanks

Three 44s


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Threes44s if you keep up the amount of talk your getting you,ll have to get a secretary. I have heard the stand still and slowly select reverse, with bears which we don't have ( the koala bear doesn't count,pick them up they either pee over you or scratch the bee juzzes out of you )the only times, ve come anywhere close to that is running into some of our snakes.in my area the 2 badges are the tiger snake,and the brown or king brown both if get disturbed can be nasty.but there is anti veneom. Bit hard with the cats had a big chew on you.you blokes would be the same as us farming is rated as the most dangerous occupation .I suppose when you look at it in your case your a lion tamer,cow boy machinery operate, and plant mechanic. And that,s with out all the other jobs. Unfortunately the two old gentlemen, who worked on the steamer have long time gone to the great hay shed in the sky.the jd cuber I take it had its own steamer on board waldo


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

"It's BACK"!

The old 1283 and company!

So is the pin shear problem!

Same old deal, the needles are returning home but still in the chamber by about six inches or so. The knots are just competed.

We fixed the broken baler to to transport issue before we went to the field.

It's going to drive us batty, to drinking or we are going to find it .... there is no middle ground!

Three 44s


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

That means the knotter is not returning all the way to the home position. The knotter drive clutch must be kicking out for some reason. Take it apart and inspect for worn parts such as the cam lobe. Might also be a good idea to replace the spring on the arm. How tight is the knotter brake? Needs to have tension on it but not too much.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Jay,

As I recall, we had that clutch apart last season and things looked well. However for the amount of trouble this is causing I could dump new parts in there just to rule it out. You mention the clutch spring and the brake .... I sanded some old rust off the brake disc and we flipped it to put the reworked section on the begining of the the cycle and we are going with a much newer brake as well. If the knotter stops at the new location where the sanded area is that disc is becoming a "frisbee" as the dealer has it and it's cheap as I recall.

Come to think of it with regards to the clutch potentially coming disengaged prematurely we find the knotter is always still "in gear" when we bring the arm that runs the rod that cycles the needle yoke home.

Also as I have become attuned to the sounds at the moment of shearing, I hear the knotter pin go first followed a split second later with the plunger stop shearing the flywheel bolt. The knotter pin is always sheared. I would think that if the clutch was kicking the knotter out prematurely that would not be the case?

I do suspect that the old brake may have been set too tight, the lining looks funky and if our latest round with this does not do the trick then the brake disc is history. Then the next round will likely be on the clutch end with a shotgun approach overhaul there.

It really irks me because this baler is a real sweet heart other than the pin shearing. New Holland balers generally put out a pretty straight and good looking bale but this baler stands near the head of the class. It reminds me of the 580 series .... they look that good.

Best regards and thank you

Three 44s


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Not familiar at all with the 283 baler. But I am thinking that there is very minimal knotter load at the point where you say the shear bolt is shearing. Makes me wonder if something is hooking somewhere.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> Not familiar at all with the 283 baler. But I am thinking that there is very minimal knotter load at the point where you say the shear bolt is shearing. Makes me wonder if something is hooking somewhere.


Yes you are correct on both counts!

"Minimal load unless something is hooking"......

I can not claim victory yet but we found something that makes sense as being the root cause of our problem.

A review of our problem: We were shearing first the knotter shear bolt, getting one more revolution of the plunger thus baling the needles (we just figured that one out) and finding the needles broken while on their way out and the tie just completed.

This happened very sporadically most of the time but very often at other times. Many of the the shearing episodes ended without the needles damaged.

We checked the needle safety over and over and many other things along the way.

We even changed the needle yoke. We changed to two other knotters complete with their own clutches. We pulled the plunger and checked bearings and guide rails.

So one asks what then?

What's left?

Well here it is .... the strap that keeps the needle safety cable away from the plunger side drive chain for the header. From the marks on the lower sprocket the cable the cable was hooking under it numberous times...... do tell!

As the cable became immediately and temporarily shortened the knotter shear bolt sheared leaving the needles in harms way and the plunger stop retracted. The needles got baled more often after a thin washer outside of the sprocket became pried away from the hub of the sprocket and thus better able to hold the cable a moment longer and thus the plunger stop retracted.

I have dealt with a number of NH balers but this the first one with a cable. All the prior machines have rods and rigid straps.

We have just one morning's run since this discovery so it's a bit premature to claim victory but the scars on the hook point are real convincing.

Time will tell.

Three44s


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Do you need some needles? I have a pair off an old 1283 laying around here somewhere.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Yes I would be interested.

All the balers we have use the style with a bolt front and back of the needle yoke and a corresponding saddle between the bolt holes.

Thanks and best regards

Three44s


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Give me a couple days to get home and scrounge around.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Three 44s sounds like you have found the problem that makes good sense,I have never experienced that problem before so I am going to store that in my computor under my hat,a job well done


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Thanks but I am a little dog eared that it buffaloed us this long. Granted it's the only baler I have worked with that has a cable linking the needle yoke to the rest of the plunger stop mechanism and the cable would free itself each time as the dust settled .......

I thought it strange that a needle stop that seemed for all the world to be functioning correctly could fail and then correct it self. Bizarre!

The marks on the hub of the sprocket and the prying out of the thin washer/spacer put considerable merit to the theory that the cable was "hooking" there and the end result would be to retract the plunger stop prematurely and shear the knotter pin leaving the needles unretracted.

I observed that our problems were worse, much worse in fact on rough ground. Now it makes perfect sense.

Best regards

Three44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> Give me a couple days to get home and scrounge around.


Thank you!

One thing about it I Upped my skill level at welding them up!

The rod I used on this latest round is as good as it is spendy. It's a Eutectic rod and the store in town that stocks it sells it for $41.00 a pound.

Best regards

Three44


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

After 3500 bales and some of it on some pretty rough ground, there have been no pin shearings so I am going to declare that cured!

The problem all along was the cable that allows the plunger stop to swing into the chamber was hooking under the hub of the drive sprocket that turns the cross shaft going across the baler to drive the pickup header.

When the needles began to with draw as the tie had just completed, the cable would hook on under the sprocket's hub, catching on the cotter pin and spacer washers. The cable would come uptight prematurely, shear the knotter shear pin and pull the plunger stop out long enough for the plunger to make one more stroke thus baling the needles up.

All of this was occurring behind the twine box on our machine as self propelled balers have their boxes on their side.

We built a new guide and I eye ball it every time I walk by it!

Beware that any baler with a cable for that link could do this trick in my opinion. I believe that all 283's fall into that category. Our 286 does not have it but NH on line parts show it as standard. It also shows some 425s as coming out with that cable as well.

What brings this problem to a head is that the small and thin unsupported strap NH puts on the side of the chamber welded to the cover plate for adjusting plunger bearings can fatigue off as ours had.

Best regards and have a happy Fourth of July!

Three44s


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

An update: Same as the last! No more wrecks!

Our new guard fixed the nasty pin shearing and baling of the needles.

A word to the wise ... anyone with a pull or SP baler that has a cable actuating the plunger stop should keep a close watch on it's guarding.

As I have posted earlier, if the cable is long enough it can hook on another part of the baler, cause the knotter pin to shear but simultaneously with draw the plunger stop and allow the plunger to continue into the chamber with a new charge of hay thus baling up the needles.

Every time I pass by our new guard, I check it "religiously"!

It sure is a relief to finally have this SP baler performing like a "sewing machine"!

Best regards

Three44s


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