# Which Disc Mower to buy



## Holloan

I'm looking to buy a disc mower and have very little experience with them. I'm looking for something that's dependable and very easy to work on with little or no problems ( most likely dreaming I know). What disc mower would you buy and why? Which ones would you stay awak from and why? I won't be using them on alot of acres (60-100) but I'd like to keep it for years. Please give me your input. Thanks.


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## JD3430

What's your local dealers like?
Who do you like best and brand does he stock?
I'd start there. Dealer support is important, all the brands are pretty good.


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## Holloan

I've got a local John Deere dealer isn't trustworthy (IMO). The other is an International deal who handles off brands as well. I've heard horror stories about working on some mowers where you have to totally dismantle the mower to fix one pod and I'd like to avoid that. Since I won't be doing alot of acres, I'm not looking for something top of the line, but I don't want junk either. I'd have to say on equipment, I'm partial to John Deere.


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## FarmerCline

I would stick with a well known name brand rather than a no name that may or may not have parts support in the future. I think most of the major brands will have a good machine......just comes down to personal preference, price, and dealer support. 
To name a few.....
NH/CIH 
JD
MF/hesston 
Kuhn
Krone
Claas
Vermeer
I'm sure I left out one or two but these are the big names that came to mind.


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## Bonfire

A 3pt mounted disk mower? If you have a dealer close by that handles Krone, that's what I'd get. The cutter bar is very good. Shaft driven. Near bulletproof. For me, dealer support would not be too high on my list for a Krone DM. Maintain it and you won't have any problems with it. Wish I had my old one back.


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## cornshucker

Holloan said:


> I'm looking to buy a disc mower and have very little experience with them. I'm looking for something that's dependable and very easy to work on with little or no problems ( most likely dreaming I know). What disc mower would you buy and why? Which ones would you stay awak from and why? I won't be using them on alot of acres (60-100) but I'd like to keep it for years. Please give me your input. Thanks.


Welcome to Hay Talk Holloan, if you can post your location probably someone near you could point you in the right way of a good dealer. As FarmerCline and JD3430 said most of the top brands are all good. Don't think you could go wrong with any of them. And as Bonfire said Krone is very good I've never ran one but good friend of mine had one, traded it for a trail type Vermeer but run the Krone for years and other than blades never spent a dime on it.


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## somedevildawg

Holloan said:


> I'm looking to buy a disc mower and have very little experience with them. I'm looking for something that's dependable and very easy to work on with little or no problems ( most likely dreaming I know). What disc mower would you buy and why? Which ones would you stay awak from and why? I won't be using them on alot of acres (60-100) but I'd like to keep it for years. Please give me your input. Thanks.


If you don't get a caddy to go with it, I would go with Krone or Claas if they have a dealer within say 100 miles....both a very easy to hook up, the JD, NH, Kuhn can be a boogerbear to attach to.....


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## JD3430

If you like easy cutter bar repairs, Case IH / NH have easily replaceable "shock pro" hubs, so if you strike a hard object like a rock, you can fix the hubs quickly and cheaply. I keep extras hubs in my truck. Even the fist time one broke, I was able to fix in 1/2 hr. And continue mowing.
The drawbar swivel hitch is easy to hook up and maneuverable. Built right here in New Holland, PA, too. 
I bought mine at NH dealer with 6 year 0.9% financing and a dealer rebate that couldn't be beat.


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## IH 1586

Holloan said:


> I'm looking to buy a disc mower and have very little experience with them. I'm looking for something that's dependable and very easy to work on with little or no problems ( most likely dreaming I know). What disc mower would you buy and why? Which ones would you stay awak from and why? I won't be using them on alot of acres (60-100) but I'd like to keep it for years. Please give me your input. Thanks.


Welcome to haytalk. One thing you left out, are you looking to get a new one or used? I am partial to JD and run a 1360 that was bought new by my dad in '91 and I recently added a JD630 to the lineup. The 1360 has been very dependable with very little issues. The 630 decision was based on my mechanics thoughts of ease of repair and durability of it. We investigated several of the top brands.


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## Grateful11

Wife and son originally bought a another Kuhn FC243RTG to replace the old one, the new one came in with or received severe roller damage at the dealer and she said no to replacing the rollers on a brand new machine and walked away. There's much more to the story but I'm not going to get into that again, you can do a search for it.

After meeting with the Kuhn District Rep. she went straight to the nearest NH dealer and he had a H7220 with rollers setup and ready to go. He gave her double for the old Kuhn on a trade than anyone else would and that was that. They got it at 0% with 4 or 5 annual payments. The biggest thing nobody likes on the NH over the Kuhn is not having a swivel hitch, it don't take much to not hit the tongue with the rear tires. The Kuhn tongue was never hit no matter how hard to made right turns, oh I guess if you tried hard enough you might it somehow, I think the front tires of the tractor would hit the front edge of the mower first. No driveline chatter with the swivel hitch either. The swivel hitch isn't available as far as I know on the H7220 but it is on the next size up. They'll never be another here without the swivel hitch again.

She saw the new Kubota/Vicon mower conditioner in person a few weeks ago and is still bringing it up every now and again. Wouldn't surprise me if she or my son or both tried to trade. I'd like to see some more info or a demo of it.


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## snowball

the JD is a Kuhn painted green, I have a kuhn and like it real well if I where to get another it would be a krone it is a little easier to hook up the kuhn can be a pain in the ... sometimes I let mine sit on a wood pallet on a cement floor it works better to hook up


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## Tim/South

I own a few disc mowers. The last new one was a Krone. It is the best one I have ever owned.

Easy to hook up and is shaft driven. When I get into heavy Bahia with our Kuhn I have to gear down the speed or the belts will slip. With the Krone I am still cutting as fast as the ground will allow.

I own a Vicon, a Kuhn and a Krone. All are good mowers. The krone is the newest and in my opinion the better of the three.


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## Holloan

Thank you for all the replies. I'm looking to buy a used mower because I can't justify a new mower just yet. The mower I'm leaning toward is a JD285. It's a little bit older but looks to be in great shape. Anybody have any knowledge of these mowers? What do I need to check before buying it? Any and all help is definitely most appreciated. Thanks....


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## Grateful11

That's a pretty good size, 10', 3 point mower, what will you be running it with?

http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?bcatid=464&DidSearch=1&EID=1&LP=TH&ETID=1&catid=1172&Manu=JOHN+DEERE&Mdltxt=285&mdlx=Contains&DisplayExtraTHOSpecs=1&Cond=All&SO=2&btnSearch=Search


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## CBarM

I've got a krone 3 pt cutter a lil over 10foot cut, I use it as my backup but I started out with it as my first disc cutter I really enjoyed it all shaft drive. If I was to start again with one I'd definatley put it on a caddy it makes a world of difference. Its easier to hookup, you can road it behind your truck, and its a back saver hooking those 3pt arms up. All in all the three point machines are great but I'd defiantly reccomend a caddy for it.


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## Tx Jim

Holloan said:


> Thank you for all the replies. I'm looking to buy a used mower because I can't justify a new mower just yet. The mower I'm leaning toward is a JD285. It's a little bit older but looks to be in great shape. Anybody have any knowledge of these mowers? What do I need to check before buying it? Any and all help is definitely most appreciated. Thanks....


JD 285 is built for JD by Kuhn. They're good cutters . Just check for slack between blade holders(hats/turtles).


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## luke strawwalker

Deere mowers are just Kuhns painted green... exact same mower as you'd get elsewhere in orange and cream... Their bigger disk mocos use NH cutterbars IIRC...

I've run a Kuhn, good mower, does a nice job... BUT I'm not too thrilled with their parts count and parts practices. For instance, if the turtle shaft (the shaft coming out of the cutterbar that the blade saucer (turtle) attaches to) fails or if the bearing needs replaced, you have to buy the ENTIRE assembly-- you cannot get the shaft or bearings or housing as separate components. This means a $260 dollar (roughly) repair, versus $20 or so for a bearing, shaft, etc... In addition, the Kuhns "protect" the cutterbar from foreign objects hitting/damaging a turtle and taking out the cutterbar by undercutting the shaft the turtle bolts to... the shaft itself is an inch or so in diameter, but they cut a "notch" in the shaft so that at one point about flush with the top of the bar, it's cut down to about maybe 1/2 inch in diameter, making a "failure point" for the shaft to twist off or snap off if it hits something, and toss the turtle out the back to protect the rest of the bar (there's a Youtube video of this over on Youtube, where they hammer a water pipe in the ground, bring the mower up to speed with the curtain flipped back, and then drive into it, shearing off the turtle/shaft and pitching it out the back). It's all top-service hubs, so take out four bolts and remove the hub/gear and install a new one, bolt the turtle back on top of it and you're back in business... but $260 lighter for the hub/shaft! Dunno if that's an issue in your area, but if you have rocks or cut fields with obstructions or something you might run into, that could get expensive...

For this reason I'm looking to eventually get a New Holland disk mower... I've been wondering the same sort of things you are and been doing research (and received some excellent advice here as well) and it just seems like a much easier mower to repair when something happens. The New Hollands use "modules" with a bevel gear on a cross-shaft, turning a bevel gear and shaft in a bearing/housing to which the turtle bolts onto above it. These modules are connected to each other with short shafts splined into each end of the adjoining module cross-shafts, housed in a "spacer" bar section between modules. The newer NH mowers use "Mow-Max" protection against cutter bar damage by having a splined hub, which all but about four of the splines are removed from... if the turtle hits something, instead of shearing the shaft, the splines twist out of the hub and the hub keeps spinning, though out of time... the Mow-Max hub kit takes about 10 minutes to replace (about on par with the Kuhn top service hub modules, but you're not breaking into the oil-bath sealed part of the bar like you do with Kuhn hubs) and costs IIRC about $40 bucks for the kit. Definitely cheaper to fix than Kuhn... Also, if you DO have a bearing failure or gear failure, you can take two bolts out, slide the module away from the spacer til the splined shaft is free, and unbolt the module from the other side spacer, and swap in a different module and keep cutting (if you keep a RH and LH module in the shop ready to go) and rebuild the damaged module at a non-critical time. The oil-bath solid-bar-gearbed type cutters can't do that... if parts break or bearings drop metal in there, it's circulating around inside the bar until you rebuild the entire bar... if the bar develops a rust pinhole or is damaged, you're buying a whole new gearbar case...

One other thing... if you're running on a lot of inclines, with the bar tipped up or down frequently, I've heard that the oil bath gearbed type cutters (like Kuhn and many others) can tend to "starve" the high end of the bar for oil, since it all runs downhill to the low end of the bar, and the only means of the oil moving "uphill" is to be slung from gear to gear up the length of the bar. The "modular" bar cutters like NH have oil in each individual "module" so running on an incline doesn't affect oil availability to the other modules, regardless of whether they're operating tilted above the others or not...

Parts and service are a big part of the equation as folks have mentioned... Best of luck!

OL JR


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## luke strawwalker

One other thing-- Case/NH cutters are New Hollands now... don't know what they were before... (IIRC some were maybe New Ideas or Hesstons or something years ago?? can't recall...)

Later! OL JR


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## TJH

If you can find a good used Krone it will last you a long, long time IF you take care of it. I bought mine when it was 3 years old and now it will start it's 17th season this year. Change all oils yearly, grease it, and don't go 100 MPH, it will last. Krone is the best made, period.


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## Holloan

I plan to use the disc mower on a jd5525 tractor....It's around 95 horse i think.


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## somedevildawg

Holloan said:


> I plan to use the disc mower on a jd5525 tractor....It's around 95 horse i think.


It'll handle it but barely.....better If you had a caddy, it is a pita to hook up to a mower that size in 3pt.....


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## cannonball

Holloan said:


> Thank you for all the replies. I'm looking to buy a used mower because I can't justify a new mower just yet. The mower I'm leaning toward is a JD285. It's a little bit older but looks to be in great shape. Anybody have any knowledge of these mowers? What do I need to check before buying it? Any and all help is definitely most appreciated. Thanks....


Don't be afraid of the KUHN or Deere-kuhn ..have worn out 3 700's here and have never touched a cutter bar bearing or gears, just changed grease ever hundred hours...gear box grease was changed a lot of times at 50 hours....but mine was run down ditches, on banks and every way possible..have never run krone...have had one with shaft drive and segment boxes and when they got a little wear, the end ones could have a lot of movement....the 285 is going to be pretty heavy on the 3 point for your tractor, I know the 700's were...if I remember right it is over 1300 lbs clean, and most is hanging on right arm..As others have said If possible get a caddy..my 2 half pennies..


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## davang

Grateful11 said:


> Wife and son originally bought a another Kuhn FC243RTG to replace the old one, the new one came in with or received severe roller damage at the dealer and she said no to replacing the rollers on a brand new machine and walked away. There's much more to the story but I'm not going to get into that again, you can do a search for it.
> 
> After meeting with the Kuhn District Rep. she went straight to the nearest NH dealer and he had a H7220 with rollers setup and ready to go. He gave her double for the old Kuhn on a trade than anyone else would and that was that. They got it at 0% with 4 or 5 annual payments. The biggest thing nobody likes on the NH over the Kuhn is not having a swivel hitch, it don't take much to not hit the tongue with the rear tires. The Kuhn tongue was never hit no matter how hard to made right turns, oh I guess if you tried hard enough you might it somehow, I think the front tires of the tractor would hit the front edge of the mower first. No driveline chatter with the swivel hitch either. The swivel hitch isn't available as far as I know on the H7220 but it is on the next size up. They'll never be another here without the swivel hitch again.
> 
> She saw the new Kubota/Vicon mower conditioner in person a few weeks ago and is still bringing it up every now and again. Wouldn't surprise me if she or my son or both tried to trade. I'd like to see some more info or a demo of it.


I have the Kubota 2032. Bought in in 2014, and I'm sorry I did. It cuts great, is quiet etc.but I had problems with the lift mechanism, the hydraulic cylinder hitting the frame member behind it. They did a workaround repair. Now the link and pin at the mower end of the hydraulic cylinder is hitting the frame. The techs know nothing about these machines, and their "repairs" are guesses. They replaced my link and it did nothing to solve the problem because it wasn't the problem. They don't even know how to correctly park them on the lot.

The owner's manual is a joke as well.

Also the cutter bar is rusting away at an incredible rate. They say it's normal wear and tear. If thats the case then my 1960s New Holland rake is just a figment of my imagination. It should be a pile of brown dust by now.

Granted I should have repainted it some but ALL the paint is gone from the cutter bar housing, with chunks of rust coming off. I've got to do a 911 paint job fast.


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## luke strawwalker

davang said:


> I have the Kubota 2032. Bought in in 2014, and I'm sorry I did. It cuts great, is quiet etc.but I had problems with the lift mechanism, the hydraulic cylinder hitting the frame member behind it. They did a workaround repair. Now the link and pin at the mower end of the hydraulic cylinder is hitting the frame. The techs know nothing about these machines, and their "repairs" are guesses. They replaced my link and it did nothing to solve the problem because it wasn't the problem. They don't even know how to correctly park them on the lot.
> 
> The owner's manual is a joke as well.
> 
> Also the cutter bar is rusting away at an incredible rate. They say it's normal wear and tear. If thats the case then my 1960s New Holland rake is just a figment of my imagination. It should be a pile of brown dust by now.
> 
> Granted I should have repainted it some but ALL the paint is gone from the cutter bar housing, with chunks of rust coming off. I've got to do a 911 paint job fast.


Did you and I trade some posts about the mast/cylinder/linkage problems a year or two back? I know I traded some posts with someone about the Kubby mowers. Even went and looked at some on the lot to see if I could find the problem. Assembly mechanics can be REALLY STUPID sometimes (we ourselves had a #18 Deere planter that threw chains for DECADES and Dad and Grandpa put up with it, just made a quick visual check after every lift-n-turn when starting the next pass, because every so often a lift arm would hit the chain just right on the innermost two planter units and toss the drive chain, leaving a blank row if you didn't catch it. I FINALLY figured out that the darn thing was assembled incorrectly by whatever shmuck unloaded it off the truck in the 60's; he put the inside two row units in the wrong position. I swapped them side-for-side and presto-- no more problems.) Thought maybe it was incorrectly assembled but after looking, I think it's just a bad design with insufficient clearance. Never heard what their "fix" was or how it worked, and I'd like to.

Sad to hear that their cutterbars are corroding so fast. Sounds like an early 70's Chevy pickup, back when they were made out of "old tin cans" as Dad put it (they rusted out terribly under the doors and rocker panel corners of the cab, some said due to the cheap recycled steel Chevy used).

That is NOT a good thing-- once the cutterbar rusts through and starts puking oil out, you're sunk. Welding pinholes only works for so long.

Guess that makes up my mind on the Vicon/Kubota mowers. Thanks for the heads up!

Later! OL J R


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## davang

Yes JR it was me. I'm bringing it in to the "new" Kubota place in el campo. They have sent more pics to Kubota that I provided on the rust. Waiting to hear from Kubota but you know how that's gonna turn out.

They're gonna "take it apart" to see what's wrong. Yeah you do that. Meanwhile I ordered some Chassis saver rust treatment/primer. They won't even offer me a can of spray paint I bet.


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## luke strawwalker

davang said:


> Yes JR it was me. I'm bringing it in to the "new" Kubota place in el campo. They have sent more pics to Kubota that I provided on the rust. Waiting to hear from Kubota but you know how that's gonna turn out.
> 
> They're gonna "take it apart" to see what's wrong. Yeah you do that. Meanwhile I ordered some Chassis saver rust treatment/primer. They won't even offer me a can of spray paint I bet.


Sorry to hear about your troubles. Looks like they aren't particularly interested in solving problems, either. Too bad-- too many manufacturers are like that.

Best of luck, but I'll tell you one thing FWIW-- I'd trade that sucker off before the gearcase rusts through-- they're worth about zilch afterwards, and replacing a bar gearcase on those gearbed cutterbars is so expensive you'd be better off putting that money towards a new mower.

One thing I'll say for the modular bars-- if something goes to pot, you only have to replace the one module or spacer.

Later and best of luck! OL J R


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## Grateful11

snowball said:


> the JD is a Kuhn painted green, I have a kuhn and like it real well if I where to get another it would be a krone it is a little easier to hook up the kuhn can be a pain in the ... sometimes I let mine sit on a wood pallet on a cement floor it works better to hook up


Absolutely right.


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## REN_HAY

davang said:


> I have the Kubota 2032. Bought in in 2014, and I'm sorry I did. It cuts great, is quiet etc.but I had problems with the lift mechanism, the hydraulic cylinder hitting the frame member behind it. They did a workaround repair. Now the link and pin at the mower end of the hydraulic cylinder is hitting the frame. The techs know nothing about these machines, and their "repairs" are guesses. They replaced my link and it did nothing to solve the problem because it wasn't the problem. They don't even know how to correctly park them on the lot.
> 
> The owner's manual is a joke as well.
> 
> Also the cutter bar is rusting away at an incredible rate. They say it's normal wear and tear. If thats the case then my 1960s New Holland rake is just a figment of my imagination. It should be a pile of brown dust by now.
> 
> Granted I should have repainted it some but ALL the paint is gone from the cutter bar housing, with chunks of rust coming off. I've got to do a 911 paint job fast.


I am in a bit of an internal struggle here, but i believe I should maybe present myself here.

I work as an R&D Engineer at the plant doing your Kubota mower. Actually I am the person responsible for your line of mowers.

First, i am glad that the mower preforms well in the field. Secondly i am sad, but not surprised about your problem with the pin interference.

But, we have gotten the feedback on this issue, and we also have a cure made now. (I don't know precisely how far it is in the organization by now) My guess is that it will trickle down the outlets during the next few months. (Dammit, I hate it when I sounds like a sales guy 

Then, on to the issues on the cutterbar paint.

I agree... We HAVE been terrible on the paint quality on the cutterbars. And even though it is probably not of any consolation to you, i can tell that there has recently been implemented a new paintline for the cutterbar production.

What should set you a bit at ease however, is that I will almost guarantee you that it will NOT rust through. It aint like the old chevy, and the steel is something like Gauge 3. In other words: I have never seen a cutterbar rusted through. (And i have seen some shitty old banged up ones)

Best regards

R


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## tinto

We run a trailed pottinger 3m alpha motion and a 3m front mounted pottinger alpa motion both with conditioners on a NH 6030 elite.
Very easy mowers to power and spares reasonable on price.


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## JD3430

tinto said:


> We run a trailed pottinger 3m alpha motion and a 3m front mounted pottinger alpa motion both with conditioners on a NH 6030 elite.
> Very easy mowers to power and spares reasonable on price.


Hello Tinto! I run a Pottinger Alpha Motion out front, too.

I'm saving my pennies for a pottinger side mower to mount out back.


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## cannonball

luke strawwalker said:


> Deere mowers are just Kuhns painted green... exact same mower as you'd get elsewhere in orange and cream... Their bigger disk mocos use NH cutterbars IIRC...
> 
> I've run a Kuhn, good mower, does a nice job... BUT I'm not too thrilled with their parts count and parts practices. For instance, if the turtle shaft (the shaft coming out of the cutterbar that the blade saucer (turtle) attaches to) fails or if the bearing needs replaced, you have to buy the ENTIRE assembly-- you cannot get the shaft or bearings or housing as separate components. This means a $260 dollar (roughly) repair, versus $20 or so for a bearing, shaft, etc... In addition, the Kuhns "protect" the cutterbar from foreign objects hitting/damaging a turtle and taking out the cutterbar by undercutting the shaft the turtle bolts to... the shaft itself is an inch or so in diameter, but they cut a "notch" in the shaft so that at one point about flush with the top of the bar, it's cut down to about maybe 1/2 inch in diameter, making a "failure point" for the shaft to twist off or snap off if it hits something, and toss the turtle out the back to protect the rest of the bar (there's a Youtube video of this over on Youtube, where they hammer a water pipe in the ground, bring the mower up to speed with the curtain flipped back, and then drive into it, shearing off the turtle/shaft and pitching it out the back). It's all top-service hubs, so take out four bolts and remove the hub/gear and install a new one, bolt the turtle back on top of it and you're back in business... but $260 lighter for the hub/shaft! Dunno if that's an issue in your area, but if you have rocks or cut fields with obstructions or something you might run into, that could get expensive...
> 
> For this reason I'm looking to eventually get a New Holland disk mower... I've been wondering the same sort of things you are and been doing research (and received some excellent advice here as well) and it just seems like a much easier mower to repair when something happens. The New Hollands use "modules" with a bevel gear on a cross-shaft, turning a bevel gear and shaft in a bearing/housing to which the turtle bolts onto above it. These modules are connected to each other with short shafts splined into each end of the adjoining module cross-shafts, housed in a "spacer" bar section between modules. The newer NH mowers use "Mow-Max" protection against cutter bar damage by having a splined hub, which all but about four of the splines are removed from... if the turtle hits something, instead of shearing the shaft, the splines twist out of the hub and the hub keeps spinning, though out of time... the Mow-Max hub kit takes about 10 minutes to replace (about on par with the Kuhn top service hub modules, but you're not breaking into the oil-bath sealed part of the bar like you do with Kuhn hubs) and costs IIRC about $40 bucks for the kit. Definitely cheaper to fix than Kuhn... Also, if you DO have a bearing failure or gear failure, you can take two bolts out, slide the module away from the spacer til the splined shaft is free, and unbolt the module from the other side spacer, and swap in a different module and keep cutting (if you keep a RH and LH module in the shop ready to go) and rebuild the damaged module at a non-critical time. The oil-bath solid-bar-gearbed type cutters can't do that... if parts break or bearings drop metal in there, it's circulating around inside the bar until you rebuild the entire bar... if the bar develops a rust pinhole or is damaged, you're buying a whole new gearbar case...
> 
> One other thing... if you're running on a lot of inclines, with the bar tipped up or down frequently, I've heard that the oil bath gearbed type cutters (like Kuhn and many others) can tend to "starve" the high end of the bar for oil, since it all runs downhill to the low end of the bar, and the only means of the oil moving "uphill" is to be slung from gear to gear up the length of the bar. The "modular" bar cutters like NH have oil in each individual "module" so running on an incline doesn't affect oil availability to the other modules, regardless of whether they're operating tilted above the others or not...
> 
> Parts and service are a big part of the equation as folks have mentioned... Best of luck!
> 
> OL JR
> 
> I have worn out 3 700 hd kuhns, out of the three I replaced ZERO bearings in cutter bar, I just changed oil as recommended or before...Have had one shaft mower bar...was changing out bearings in head all the time, had short shafts between sections and when they got a little wear, it was a full time job keeping blades from hitting...It cut good any better than a kuhn, no...I was getting 5 to 7 years from Kuhns cutting 3500 to 4000 rolls on about a bale and half to 2 bales to acre..that was running 2 mowers..we cut in morning and baled in the afternoon..all mowers are good , some are a cut above....my 3 bits


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## Agrozenit Farm Equipment

I think you should prefer European Disc mower such as :

agrozenit farm equipment : www.agrozenit.com

samasz : www.samasz.com

enorossi : www.enorossi.it


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## Tim/South

Agrozenit Farm Equipment said:


> I think you should prefer European Disc mower such as :
> 
> agrozenit farm equipment : www.agrozenit.com
> 
> samasz : www.samasz.com
> 
> enorossi : www.enorossi.it


Why?

What are your selling points?

Are dealers close by for dealer service?

Is the price competitive?

What is the warranty?

How long has the company been in the hay making business.

If you are going to push the brand at every chance on this forum, you need to tell us why your product is better than what we are currently using. We already have European companies with established reputations in North America.

Tell us why we should go with you.


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## somedevildawg

And where we go to buy it or demo it......most of the folks here are from North America, although several folks are abroad, the North American market is the primary market on this forum. It doesn't do any good to push "European" products if they don't have a distribution network.....even the ones that do have distribution networks, struggle to keep up with JD, Case, Massey, NH, and Kubota. It took me 15 days and $200 to get a cylinder rebuild kit for a claas mower.....good product, but that's unacceptable in the farming business, too slow and too expensive


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## Agrozenit Farm Equipment

Tim/South said:


> Why?
> 
> What are your selling points?
> 
> Are dealers close by for dealer service?
> 
> Is the price competitive?
> 
> What is the warranty?
> 
> How long has the company been in the hay making business.
> 
> If you are going to push the brand at every chance on this forum, you need to tell us why your product is better than what we are currently using. We already have European companies with established reputations in North America.
> 
> Tell us why we should go with you.


Why you are so aggressive ?

ı just shared my idea


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## somedevildawg

Cause he's a top rated defense attorney in the State of Alabama, and it comes natural? (My apologiesTim) Those are just normal questions to reoccurring posts about the product you guys manufacture......if you don't want questions other than "what color can it come in" you probably shouldn't post on this site because we will hammer you with questions that are relevant to the product.....which may or may not be a good product but we have no way of knowing one way or another whether it is or isn't.....it also depends on the what the definition of "is" is........


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## Tim/South

Agrozenit Farm Equipment said:


> Why you are so aggressive ?
> 
> ı just shared my idea


My post is far from aggressive.

If you are here to promote a product then be prepared to show us reasons to give your brand consideration.

I notice you did not answer any of the questions. Rather you attack concerns anyone would have when considering changing brands.

Krone has a member who posts here and is very helpful and very respected.


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## timberjackrob

we have had two vicon mowers first one we ran for 20 years with 0 problems sold it and bought a new vicon two years ago got 2 seasons on it now and 0 problems.


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## somedevildawg

Them vicons are purty good mowers....folks that have em swear by them


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## Tim/South

I have owned 2 Vicons, still have one. The frame on mine was not quite as heavy and the Kuhn or Krone.

Always thought the 3 knives per cutter head was a good idea.


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## RockmartGA

Tim/South said:


> Always thought the 3 knives per cutter head was a good idea.


I owned a Vicon many years ago and also thought the 3-blade cutter head was a great idea. Replaced it with a Kuhn (which I also like), but always felt that the 3-blade head allowed me to grab an extra gear.

Parts availability for Vicon in my area was always an issue.


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## Tx Jim

Tim/South said:


> I have owned 2 Vicons, still have one. The frame on mine was not quite as heavy and the Kuhn or Krone.
> 
> Always thought the 3 knives per cutter head was a good idea.


My neighbor had a pull type Vicon but had some trouble with the the driveline u-joint at the gearbox & shaft that drives cutterbar. I personally don't see the advantage of 3 blades per rotor because IMHO my Krone AM283S with 2 blades per rotor will cut just a good as my neighbor's Vicon.


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## rjmoses

Tx Jim said:


> My neighbor had a pull type Vicon but had some trouble with the the driveline u-joint at the gearbox & shaft that drives cutterbar. I personally don't see the advantage of 3 blades per rotor because IMHO my Krone AM283S with 2 blades per rotor will cut just a good as my neighbor's Vicon.


I had a Vicon and really liked the 3 blade head. I thought it cut cleaner and used less HP.

(I apologize upfront if my math is off on this--it's early.)

I believe this came from the fact that only the outer edge of the blade does the actual cutting. I figure it this way: You're running at 540 RPM and 6 MPH. Now 6 MPH = approximately 9 FPS = 108 IPS. And 540 RPM (on my NH 7230) = 3000 RPM at the turtle or 50 RPS.

So, that means that every revolution of the turtle is covering approximately 2". For a 2 blade design, each blade is cutting approximately 1" whereas it would be .66" in a 3 blade design (all else being equal).

Going the other way now: If I can run only 6 MPH with a 2 blade, I should be able to run 9 MPH with a 3 blader. Or 6 MPH and using less fuel because the load per blade is less.

QED: I have a headache!

What I didn't like on the Vicon was the cutter bar design. The open bar design caused the oil to accumulate on the end of the bar when mowing across hillsides causing the uphill turtles to be oil-starved. I had to replace the outer hubs often.

Ralph


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## mike10

The load per blade may be less, but is the total load per disc less? To early in the morning to do such calculations. We sold Vicon back in the early 80's before NH had a disc mower. Everyone liked the clean cut from the three blades and it probably is superior to the two blade cutters but how do you quanitfy it. Is 1% better or .1% better at what point does it make a difference? Our problems with Vicon came from the bar itself. I am certain they are made better today then 35 years ago but I have had a fear of bolted cutterbars ever since including the Kuhn mowers NH sold.


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## Tx Jim

Ralph

IMHO if one is pulling a disc cutter with a more than adequate hp tractor then a cutter that supposedly requires less HP is mute especially if one is pulling cutter in hilly country. Will towing tractor use significantly less fuel per hr? Probably not. The way I see it is 3 blades vs 2 blades requires 50% more cost & time to replace. If my cutter isn't leaving any stalks./blades of grass/streaks then I've basically saved that 50% labor & materials. I fully understand if you're satisfied with the 3 blade system but it's not my cup of tea.

Jim


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## rjmoses

Tx Jim said:


> Ralph
> 
> The way I see it is 3 blades vs 2 blades requires 50% more cost & time to replace. If my cutter isn't leaving any stalks./blades of grass/streaks then I've basically saved that 50% labor & materials. I fully understand if you're satisfied with the 3 blade system but it's not my cup of tea.
> 
> Jim


Good points.

Ralph


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## timberjackrob

I really cant say about the three blade vs two is better or not all I have ever used was a vicon 3 blade mower and had such good service out of the first one we bought another the first one we had for 20 years and the bar was never apart and we cut a lot of rough hilly ground around here we kept the oil changed built up the slides once and replaced the belts once and that was it.the new one has a different designed cutter bar so you can remove the hubs from the top and it is much much quieter.if I had one complaint about the old one it was noisy.


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## TJH

If I remember correctly and Krone 1 may correct me, on my first Krone which was a 281 the book said the disc turned at 3200 RPM. Whether the later models are running at this speed IDK none of the books say anymore. I always attributed Krone's super clean cut to the fact it was turning 200 RPM faster. My neighbor who does 800 acres 4 times a year and has had every mower there is, said nothing ever cut better than the Krone's. His words not mine.


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## somedevildawg

That dude is busy.......


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## mike10

One should not get caught up on cutterbar rpm. Along with cutterbar rpm one also needs to consider disc diameter. As a kid I remember having someone hold a rope and rotate 360 degrees standing in one place. Another person would grab the rope a few feet out and have to keep up with the person standing in one spot. The second person had to move faster to keep up with the person standing in one place. The next person another couple of feet out had to run even faster and so on.

A small disc rotating at a higher rpm does not necessarily have more cutting ability in heavy crops then a larger disc rotating at a slightly slower rpm. Now if you have a large disc rotating at a higher rpm you should be able to cut heavier crops easier. But in the end does it really make much difference.


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## REN_HAY

What Mike 10 said above... With the addition that, what his explanation really boils down to, and what you really are looking at, is the blade tip speed. And I bet you that THAT wont differ much between all the manufatures of discmowers.

What comes AFTER the grass straw has been cut, there we differ some i think.

R


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## Tx Jim

I've seen where JD & Vicon disc cutters have cut. I've owned owned NH,Vermeer & Krone. My Krone will cut cleaner than all the rest. I have no idea what the Krone blade tip speed is.


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## REN_HAY

Yea, Krone also cuts nice. Most "big" brands usually do i think..

R


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## somedevildawg

REN_HAY said:


> What Mike 10 said above... With the addition that, what his explanation really boils down to, and what you really are looking at, is the blade tip speed. And I bet you that THAT wont differ much between all the manufatures of discmowers.
> What comes AFTER the grass straw has been cut, there we differ some i think.
> 
> R


Blade tip speed and sharp blades.....I've seen some hay that was cut with blades that I would barely use for trot line weights


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## krone.1

There is a "sweet spot" for blade tip speed. If you calculate the disc diameter and the RPM most every manufacturer with a two blade system is in the same range. The 3 blade system is at the bottom end of the tip speed range with their smaller diameter disc and a lower disc RPM. But when you factor by 1.5 to account for the extra blade, it is on the higher end of the range. One advantage to a three blade system is constant blade contact with the crop. A disadvantage is the adjoining discs have to be counter rotating. The cutterbar can't be setup to bring the crop to the center.


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## mike10

Krone.1, my memory is not what it used to be, but I think Vicon did have machines with co-rotating discs. For some reason I was thinking the KM281 was setup that way, but I could be wrong, I forgot alot of things the over the last 30 yrs when we dealt with Vicon.


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## REN_HAY

krone.1 said:


> There is a "sweet spot" for blade tip speed. If you calculate the disc diameter and the RPM most every manufacturer with a two blade system is in the same range. The 3 blade system is at the bottom end of the tip speed range with their smaller diameter disc and a lower disc RPM. But when you factor by 1.5 to account for the extra blade, it is on the higher end of the range. One advantage to a three blade system is constant blade contact with the crop. A disadvantage is the adjoining discs have to be counter rotating. The cutterbar can't be setup to bring the crop to the center.


This is scary, I actually deleted a post i wrote yesterday where i used the exact wording "sweet spot" about the tip speed of different manufactures.  but right you are..

On a side note, We run the same speed on the three blade cutterbars as we do on the two blade ones.

And while there are undoubtedly some disadvantages from a designers perceptive on the adjoining discs, not being able to bring the crop to the center is NOT one of them in my view.. Actually some manufactures go to the trouble of putting two additional drums in the center of their cutterbars to disperse the cropflow from the center ;-)

R


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## TJH

somedevildawg said:


> That dude is busy.......


Yes Dawg, I tried to get home early the other day to get some video but they had already quit. 3 NH small squares, a Bale Baron, 2 NH 3x3 squares and two Vermeer 605 SM's, 2 Sitrex 16 wheel rakes, it was quite the sight.


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