# problem with alfalfa



## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm trying to grow alfalfa for the first time. I'm in west central Indiana on clay soil. I applyed 3.5 tons of lime and 100 lbs. phosperous per acre. I planted Pioneer 54R blend seed @ 20 lbs. per acre. I got a good germination and population. problem is it isn't growing. a lot of it is only two to three inches tall. have any ideas?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Qiute looking at it every day!!LOL

Alfalfa is slow growing at first but the roots are going down.


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks! Good point!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm hoping you did some soil tests. You didn't mention applying any potash, so you might be deficient there. Also, it takes 1-2 years for your lime to start working; more if you simply top dressed it and did not disc it in.

Finally, a watched pot doesn't boil! Go on vacation for 3 weeks and tell us what you see when you get back. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised!

Ralph


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Suggestions from the earlier responses are good. Assuming that you collected a soil sample and had it analyzed, what were the test results for pH, potassium, and boron?

The 100 lb of P2O5 that you applied should be a reasonable starter, but if the soil tested low in phosphorus, did you incorporate the phosphate into the soil or leave it on the surface?

What was the quality of the applied limestone (effective calcium carbonate equivalence), how long ago was it applied, and did you incorporate the limestone?

Are there any abnormal discolorations on the new leaves of the alfalfa plants, like general reddening on the leaves, or white specks around the leaf margins?


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

I did do a soil test and the potash was ok. I did disc after applying the lime but it was really dry at the time. Thanks for the input!


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

There is a little whitening in some of the leaves but i think it is from frost. 
The soil test results were Ph 5.2, Potassiym 180, Boron 42,Phosphorus 68,Sulfur 6.5, calcium 2226.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Les said:


> There is a little whitening in some of the leaves but i think it is from frost.
> The soil test results were Ph 5.2, Potassiym 180, Boron 42,Phosphorus 68,Sulfur 6.5, calcium 2226.


A PH of 5.2 is a problem!!! You said you applied 3.5 tons/acre of lime. That's a good start! Did you incorporate (disc) it in? You need to get your PH up around 6.5.

Potassium is low, should be around 300, so you do need some potash. Phosphorous is reasonable. Don't worry too much about boron, etc., until you the P and K right.

It will take time for all these to start working, about a year depending on soil type, so you might need to over apply depending on how much yield you get!

Don't forget, you need to apply as much P and K as you take off in yield plus what you need to get up to the "maintenance" level. (300 for K, 70 for P)

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

PH is low, we like to apply lime no later than six months before we intend to plant, may start a few years ahead of time getting everything up to snuff before planting alfalfa. I've always been told not to apply additional boron until the stand was a year old.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

I don't understand the "42" that you listed as the test result for boron. Could that have been 0.42 parts per million. The reason that I asked if boron was analyzed is that if the soil is low in boron already, liming an acid soil ties up plant available boron. There is nothing wrong with applying up to 3 to 4 lbs of boron per acre before seeding alfalfa, if plant available boron is low and the acid soil is limed for alfalfa. Acid soils intended for alfalfa production need to be limed to pH aroung 6.8 to 7.0 for optimum production.

If the whitening on the leaves is small sizes spots around the outer edges of leaf margins, that is an indication of a potassium deficiency. Moving a soil from 180 ppm potassium to 300 ppm potassium will require a lot of applied potash, and at current prices, this would be highly uneconomical. Potash applied at the beginning of the alfalfa growing season, and again after the second cutting should do a good job at maintaining soil potassium levels in a hay removal situation.


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

Yes I forgot the decimal point on the boron it is .42. I checked with the farm supplyservice I use and the potash is running around $675 a ton so it would be very costly to bring the field up to 300. I asked then about applying N and they said you should never apply it to alfalfa.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I will start with what I have little or no knowledge of. 
LIME: The friends I have in East Texas who need lime on their permanent sod fields use something they call super fine for a quick response. 
Our friend vhaby is very knowledgeable as well as being a certified authority on liming. If he does not chime in you can E-Mail him directly and ask for his opinion.

Now:
There is a little whitening in some of the leaves but i think it is from frost. 
The soil test results were Ph 5.2, Potassiym 180,
Potassium is low, should be around 300, so you do need some potash. Phosphorous is reasonable. Don't worry too much about boron, etc., until you the P and K right.

A little whitening on some leaves just may be an indication of potassium deficiency.

I am suspicious of the 300 figure for potassium. We know nothing of your soils, but with the typical soils 140 to 160 ppm K is the upper range for soil K. It may be possible your lab thinks you are retarded and is using pounds per acre. If that is the case 300 # = 150 ppm K. and if they are talking K2O would be 125 lbs/A K2O. This also would make the phosphate level suspect. 
I would like to think they are reporting your soil is 180 ppm K and all is well. If their 180 is pounds than your soil is in the 75 ppm K range and you do need added potash.

I have little faith in soil testing for Sulfur and any of the micro nutrients.

I asked then about applying N and they said you should never apply it to alfalfa. I suspect they are correct for your situation. If you alfalfa really needs nitrogen it probably really needs molybdenum. For these only a tissue analysis will confirm a Mo deficiency. The good thing is a little dab will do you. 
For seedling alfalfa it is usually thought that a maximum of 20 maybe 30 pounds of nitrogen from some fertilizer or another is all you need or want. Consider 100 lbs of Phosphate using 10-34-0 is 300 lbs of fertilizer material, and you have your 30 lbs of nitrogen.

The red lettering and stuff did not survive the copy and paste and I do not have the patience to redoo the emphases additions.


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

I see now that the K and P are in pounds per acre. Thanks for this info Hay Wilson!


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## Les (Apr 15, 2012)

I added 150 lbs/Acre of potash and 10 lbs/Acre boron today. also got a good rain shower after applying. hope this helps!


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Les said:


> I added 150 lbs/Acre of potash and 10 lbs/Acre boron today. also got a good rain shower after applying. hope this helps!


Normally when describing the fertilizer applied we write in terms of the amount of nutrient applied. For example, 150 lbs of potash/acre as 0-0-60 amounts to 90 lb K2O/acre. For boron, apparently you applied 10 lb of material/acre that has a certain percentage boron concentration. I doubt that you applied 10 lb actual boron per acre. It's always nice to have a rain soon after application of any fertilizer.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

vhaby said:


> Normally when describing the fertilizer applied we write in terms of the amount of nutrient applied. For example, 150 lbs of potash/acre as 0-0-60 amounts to 90 lb K2O/acre. For boron, apparently you applied 10 lb of material/acre that has a certain percentage boron concentration. I doubt that you applied 10 lb actual boron per acre. It's always nice to have a rain soon after application of any fertilizer.


Co-op had a new guy out trying to sell fertilizer.I asked what 300 lbs of 9-23-30 would be per acre and the guy didn't have a clue what I was talking about.Had to explain to him it would be 27-69-90.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Maybe its our soils or conditions, but always been told to never apply more than 2lbs/acre of actual boron a year and never until the alfalfa is at least a year old.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Maybe its our soils or conditions, but always been told to never apply more than 2lbs/acre of actual boron a year and never until the alfalfa is at least a year old.


Stick with what works for you. In our studies of liming and applying boron to Darco loamy fine sand, two pounds of actual boron per acre did not give us the yield that we got from applying four pounds of boron per acre. Initially before seeding, we applied 0, 1, and 2 lb of B/acre on plots that had received varying rates of limestone, but increased the rates to 2 and 4 lb of B per acre to achieve the desired yields.

This was an acid soil that we had to lime to pH near 7.0. When liming these low buffer capacity acid soils, the aluminum (the toxic factor in acid soils) is converted to aluminum hydroxy borate and this effectively ties up plant available boron that was in the soil as residual boron.

When applying boron to other legume crops such as clovers 1 lb of B/acre should not be exceeded in order to not have the B be toxic to the clover, but alfalfa is much more tolerant to boron. Best yields were attained when we got the soil test level of B up to near 1.0 ppm hot water extractable.

Vincent


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