# Offered a good sized bush hog contract this morning...



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So I got a call a few days back from a local 90 acre horse farm operation to come look at pasture clipping. Guy sold tractor and mower, wants to have a contractor do it. Went to look today. Only has like 10 horses. Lots of empty unused, but neatly kept pasture. Best guess is I'd be clipping about 60 AC.
One problem is that its kind of farm from my hay fields.
I already have 15' bush hog. I only have one tractor capable of this job and it'll be tied up all season. Still hunting for 3rd tractor. He wants it clipped after 18" growth to avoid matting. That's a lot of cuts. 
So my question is, should I say nothing about hay and just give him price for cutting? 
OR should I suggest haying, knowing he may balk at letting it get to 3-4' high, but he'd get cut free (I will still have to bush hog some low, wet, treed areas)?


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

What's it gonna hurt to ask? Unless he's the kind to run you off just for suggesting, in which case you don't want anything to do with him anyway. I suggest, IF *you* would like to hay it, ask. If it's something you are not interested in, don't.

Your tractor will have to be there anyhow, just take the hay equipment with ya when you go. And like you said, you won't have to make as many trips.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2014)

I would definitly hay it to. Or at least try talking him into it. You get free hay and he gets clean cut fields with no dead grass mat. But hopefully he'll let u cut the wooded areas when u cut hay so u dont have to keep goin back for just those areas


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Great advice already posted.

Do you think any of his ground would make hay he would consider feeding to his horses? (If he feeds round bales). He may be open to the idea of being a substainable farm. I am not sure what a "substainable farm" is but it is the new buzz word in Ag this year. It seems the interpretation is open to the opinion of whomever is speaking.

Then again he may want his hay for free, so working out a hay deal may open a can of worms.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The way I see it, it will be too long (time wise and height of grass) between cuts for hay. In other words, he won't like the way it looks when the grass gets real high. He feeds small sq as of now. I'm only doing RBs.
Maybe I cut it for a while, then after I gain his trust, suggest haying it? 
Honestly, I think bush hogging might pay more than the income from average quality hay, and who knows, he may frown on fertilizing and spraying, too..
If we make a deal on cutting, it will completely force me into 3rd tractor and more expense. It's too far from where I keep equipment to drive back and forth. 
If this account is worth anything close to what I think it is, maybe I just bush hog it and let the income go towards 3rd tractor payments? I can use 3rd tractor for other bush hog accounts. In fact, I'd probably just dedicate the 3rd to the bush hog and keep the 2 I have for hay?


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

SO How far are you really talking? Between where I live and the best hay field I have is about 18 miles. Do you have ramps on your trailer to haul tractor and mower over instead of driving tractor.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Here the problem with haying active pasture is manure. The owners don't want the work of keeping the horses in the right size paddock with a rotation but they know the grass needs to not get too long or too short. The horse keep a nice spot trimmed down then pollute other areas with random droppings.

I've hayed them a few times but tedding catches poo and flings it into the hay. If the owner was willing to pen them into a smaller area, let you take a cutting off the rest then let them on the whole thing after it could work out.

Sometimes here they like if you keep the perimeter cleaned along fences so it looks pretty while the hay grows.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Owner is not using the areas he wants cut for active pasture. Might be a few brittle piles left over.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

> The way I see it,


What about the way the owner sees it? Do you know until you ask him?

Do some math.

1) I'll make this much if I just bushog it.

2) I'll make this much if I can bale it & keep all the hay....if he'll let me

3) I'll make this much if I can bale it, keep x% for myself & he gets x% for his horses.

Then talk to him & see what he thinks.

Good luck!


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

OH YEA, still can't make up your mind which way you want to try? Flip a coin.

The instant it leaves your thumb you know what you are hoping for.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd rather bush hog it, since that's what he wants, but fields looked so clean I got to thinking they'd make good hay.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Try talking him into letting it get 2' high then make hay off of it.

You might get quite a bit of hay off a good thick stand of grass 18" as well.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Try talking him into letting it get 2' high then make hay off of it.
> 
> You might get quite a bit of hay off a good thick stand of grass 18" as well.


I think he'd be ok with that, but I doubt spray/fertilize. 
We all know you can't take out NPK without replacing it.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Or just start as you said- bush hog. Then after you know the field think if you want to suggest hay. I like the idea of being paid to bush hog a potential free field. Better to find hidden *gems* with that then your hay equipment no?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Lot easier dragging one bush hog over vs hay equipment too.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh yeah, for sure. I think there might be better money in bush hogging it 8x a year than hay 2x year.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Oh yeah, for sure. I think there might be better money in bush hogging it 8x a year than hay 2x year.


And a lot less gamble on the weather.

Bush hog and pocket the money.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Ditto. If the money is good you can always reconsider hay question. Get paid to get to know your new customer.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

And like been mentioned, it can always be bush hogged in the rain while your waiting on haymaking weather.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Oh yeah, for sure. I think there might be better money in bush hogging it 8x a year than hay 2x year.


Looks like ya answered your own question? But believe me, I understand the "good hay" thoughts.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I think he'd be ok with that, but I doubt spray/fertilize.
> We all know you can't take out NPK without replacing it.


 I wonder if he realizes that to have a good productive pasture he needs to be fertilizing anyway and if weeds are present spraying.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

urednecku said:


> Looks like ya answered your own question? But believe me, I understand the "good hay" thoughts.


I thought if we transitioned to hay, then transition to selling him the hay, I have little to no transportation costs because it goes right in his barn. He's old school small squares, though. That way I barely handle it and don't have to store.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

IF you could find a good deal on a square baler, might pay to buy 1 just for that farm, & leave it there. Square what he needs, round the rest for you.

I know I found a 1-of-a-kind deal, but my baler was paid off in way less than 1 season, only about 20 or 25 acres at the time. I think I only paid $3600 for my JD336, used just enough to wear the paint off wear areas.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I wonder if he realizes that to have a good productive pasture he needs to be fertilizing anyway and if weeds are present spraying.


Good point.

Our Ag world is changing. I fight weeds that did not exist here when I was a kid. The Green movement has done a lot of harm by allowing the invasive weeds and undesirable grasses from other countries to spread.

If we want to keep native or improved grasses then we have to fight the ones crossing the border.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> Good point.
> 
> Our Ag world is changing. I fight weeds that did not exist here when I was a kid. The Green movement has done a lot of harm by allowing the invasive weeds and undesirable grasses from other countries to spread.
> 
> If we want to keep native or improved grasses then we have to fight the ones crossing the border.


Yah, goes to more than just weeds. I've cut down almost 3 dozen dead ash trees the last couple of weeks thanks to the emerald ash borer.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Thats hardly rooted in the green movement. Ever since humans have started travelling large distances they've started dragging seeds / plants / insects etc into places they weren't before. Food, decoration, accident etc all different reasons.

Lately the pressure of cheap goods and global trade seems to drag a bunch of asian stuff over here. Pretty much got all the invasive stuff from europe well established already.



Tim/South said:


> The Green movement has done a lot of harm by allowing the invasive weeds and undesirable grasses from other countries to spread.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Thats hardly rooted in the green movement. Ever since humans have started travelling large distances they've started dragging seeds / plants / insects etc into places they weren't before. Food, decoration, accident etc all different reasons.
> 
> Lately the pressure of cheap goods and global trade seems to drag a bunch of asian stuff over here. Pretty much got all the invasive stuff from europe well established already.


The Green Movement says not to spray and allow nature to take it's course.

On the new field I am working on the owner did not want any chemicals. Then he saw all the thistle.

He had a notion that spraying would contaminate the ground water and poison the earth.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> The Green Movement says not to spray and allow nature to take it's course.
> 
> On the new field I am working on the owner did not want any chemicals. Then he saw all the thistle.
> 
> He had a notion that spraying would contaminate the ground water and poison the earth.


I suppose he also thinks all the worlds food could be non GMO and grown organically and it wouldn't create a food shortage that would make $8 corn seem dirt cheap?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> I suppose he also thinks all the worlds food could be non GMO and grown organically and it wouldn't create a food shortage that would make $8 corn seem dirt cheap?


There'd be razor wire, spotlights and guard dogs around fields, too, if they were all organic.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

So do you have a new contract in need of a new tractor?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Thats hardly rooted in the green movement. Ever since humans have started travelling large distances they've started dragging seeds / plants / insects etc into places they weren't before. Food, decoration, accident etc all different reasons.
> 
> Lately the pressure of cheap goods and global trade seems to drag a bunch of asian stuff over here. Pretty much got all the invasive stuff from europe well established already.


Or our own governement, which thought KUDZU was so amazing, they actually handed out over 85 million seedlings in an effort to use kudzu as an erosion preventative. Now it's the most invasive noxious weed in the world. 
it's referred to as "the vine that ate the south".


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Late to the party. But I've got a couple real nice hay fields because the owners didn't want to pay to have them brush hogged. Better to let me mow them for free and take the hay.

And I love customers who take the hay right into the barn on the same property, saves me a lot of transport time. I'd agree with the brush hog it, find the rocks and then bale the 2nd crop.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> So do you have a new contract in need of a new tractor?


Well, I needed a tractor before this ever came up, and no way could it be new, probably 10-15 old and 5,000 hours. Lol


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

[quote name="JD3430" post="127655" timestamp="1397261753"]Well, I needed a tractor before this ever came up, and no way could it be new, probably 10-15 old and 5,000 hours. Lol[/quote

"New to you" 

Wanna go together on some lotto tickets? I could really use another bigger one too. But then I would need more land to work. And a shed to put it in. Winning lotto ticket has got to be the answer.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Bush Hog it one time to get a good working relationship with him and then maybe ease into to the idea of haying it. Like you said if you can make more money bush hogging do it or as Marty said you can do this when weather is unfavorable to hay. Lots of options there just do what is best for you economically and time wise. Lots of good advice on this post.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yep, I'd rather bush hog than hay quick money. Once job is done, you get paid. No sweating (literally and figuratively).
I enjoy haying immensely, its just nice to have an additional sources of income (bush hog, snow plow, etc).


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

You seem to do a lot of contract brush hogging. Possibly enough to justify a dedicated setup? Have you looked into municipal auctions? The ones they sell off are still in great shape sometimes plus you would be able to have the ditch bank mower. I saw a T6030 all set up with 10' flail and side boom go for 32000 at auction. 4800 hrs


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hillside hay said:


> You seem to do a lot of contract brush hogging. Possibly enough to justify a dedicated setup? Have you looked into municipal auctions? The ones they sell off are still in great shape sometimes plus you would be able to have the ditch bank mower. I saw a T6030 all set up with 10' flail and side boom go for 32000 at auction. 4800 hrs


Yes, I like to do big mowing jobs. They pay well around here, but there's a lot of competition. 
I know what you mean about the dedicated set ups. They go cheap at auctions and dealers. Usually 2WD since they run roads most of the time. 
I can buy a bush hog ditch bank mower almost anytime and pay it off quickly. Already have 15' and 8' bush hogs. Would love to have extend/retract arm mower.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD, One thing I have found in Ag is to be as diversified as we can and keep it as simples we can manage.

For some it is managing row crops and hay. For others it may be hay and livestock.

In your case it seems as though hay has worked it's way into your bush hogging business. You also plow snow and build for others as necessary.

It is nice to see how other members of the Ag community manage.


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## eam77 (Aug 4, 2013)

Lots of talk about bush hogging. JD3430, how much per hour, or acre, does your local area pay for bush hogging with a 15' batwing mower?
(And how many acres/hour?)

And what do you think your costs are?

I have a Bush Hog 2615L and run it with an 83 PTO HP McCormick 4WD. I think that my costs are about as follows:
Tractor ownership and maint -- $11/hour
Tractor fuel $3.50/gal at 3.4 gal/hr. -- $12/hour
Bush hog ownership, maint. costs (not blades) -- $6/hour
Bush hog blades -- $2/hour
Total non-labor cost per hour = $31/hr.

Now I don't know what anyone would need to make for labor per hour, but I do think that I have at least 1.2hours of labor for every hour of run time. The non-run labor hours are tractor service, bush hog service, blade service, transport or travel.

If you are not careful, you will be bush hogging for your neighbors at a price that is less than your cost on your own place. Or, you just may be doing some really cheap labor.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> JD, One thing I have found in Ag is to be as diversified as we can and keep it as simples we can manage.
> For some it is managing row crops and hay. For others it may be hay and livestock.
> In your case it seems as though hay has worked it's way into your bush hogging business. You also plow snow and build for others as necessary.
> It is nice to see how other members of the Ag community manage.


Thanks. Yes, I'm more the exception than the rule. Got into bush hogging about 10 years ago. I owned a smaller 55HP tractor and a 8' flail mower. I was hooked. Stupid as it sounds, getting in an AC cab and mowing was like heaven to me after 25 years of truck driving and construction. Then came the M7040 and the Deere MX 8. Then the haying started 3 years ago, then 2615 legend and the M126x. 
Would love to have a Deere CX/HX15 batwing.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

eam77 said:


> Lots of talk about bush hogging. JD3430, how much per hour, or acre, does your local area pay for bush hogging with a 15' batwing mower?(And how many acres/hour?)And what do you think your costs are?I have a Bush Hog 2615L and run it with an 83 PTO HP McCormick 4WD. I think that my costs are about as follows:Tractor ownership and maint -- $11/hourTractor fuel $3.50/gal at 3.4 gal/hr. -- $12/hourBush hog ownership, maint. costs (not blades) -- $6/hourBush hog blades -- $2/hourTotal non-labor cost per hour = $31/hr.Now I don't know what anyone would need to make for labor per hour, but I do think that I have at least 1.2hours of labor for every hour of run time. The non-run labor hours are tractor service, bush hog service, blade service, transport or travel.If you are not careful, you will be bush hogging for your neighbors at a price that is less than your cost on your own place. Or, you just may be doing some really cheap labor.


I always do it by the job. I take travel time, expenses, difficulty of terrain, height of weeds, look on customers face when he talks to me and my labor and put it into a price. I had an amazing BH contract I think I lost over the winter. Rich guy with a 4 million dollar estate. Paid me 4x to bush hog 10 acres of hazardous terrain, make pretty finish passes up and down his driveway and weed wack his pillars and gates at $1,000 a pop. Then he had 15 acres of hay he just let me have it. Company got into financial trouble. Bank just took it from him. Guy was like a rich uncle to me. Can only hope next owner is 1/2 as generous.


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