# What to do



## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Yesterday I went to the woods to cut trees out of the stream and just general survey of the area. Got to the stream and was surprised that the ice was dirty like lots of dirt was roiled up and froze. Upon closer inspection realized it was liquid manure. I am 1-1.5 miles down stream from my cousins and can only imagine how many gallons had to enter the stream to result in frozen islands of manure that far downstream. Still debating whether I should call it in or not.

Not the first issue and most definitely not the last. In fact I used to drink from all 3 streams I have through the property and would not even think about it any more. During the summer there is so many nutrients in them that the algae growth is unbelievable during the summer.

Couple years ago

https://www.timesobserver.com/news/local-news/2016/02/warren-county-farmer-has-begun-corrective-actions-after-wastewater-impacts-nearby-stream/

Cousins Farm 350 +- milking at this location. You can see a tributary to the stream within tossing distance of the barn.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9632087,-79.2293975,333m/data=!3m1!1e3

Where I was at

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9691182,-79.2089357,110m/data=!3m1!1e3

Probably would explain why he has tankers in and spreading on snow when the cut off date for spreading is Dec 15. for him.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

I am guessing it would be a hard decision because it's family, BUT right is right, I would not stand for my creek to become a dumping ground for any reason or person....

A few pictures and a call from a concerned citizen/land owner is needed NOW.....

He is harming YOUR land ....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

We stop spreading on snow here. 
I spread on a 6 acre patch with barely 1" of snow about 6 years ago and we had rain/warming and it made me nervous. Luckily nothing but one neighbors lawn fertilized free.
Can't imagine what you must be seeing in the water at your place.
I quit winter spreading and switched to mid-late fall.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Based on the earlier infraction, and his response, it would seem that they are trying to do the right thing. Especially if they spent anywhere close to what they claim on environmental projects. I guess that could have been a lawyer spinning words for them to try to avoid potential fines.

Have you made them aware of what you are seeing?


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

If it was me I would call him up and ask him to stop by you want to show him something don't tell him what. If he comes over stay calm show him the problem and ask him to get on top of the situation. Just keep it friendly on your turf if he wants to be a jerk then make some calls. It's family so give him a chance but if he doesn't see your side then it's game on.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> We stop spreading on snow here.
> I spread on a 6 acre patch with barely 1" of snow about 6 years ago and we had rain/warming and it made me nervous. Luckily nothing but one neighbors lawn fertilized free.
> Can't imagine what you must be seeing in the water at your place.
> I quit winter spreading and switched to mid-late fall.


That's why there are hauling and spreading it on perfectly level ground right now.



paoutdoorsman said:


> Based on the earlier infraction, and his response, it would seem that they are trying to do the right thing. Especially if they spent anywhere close to what they claim on environmental projects. I guess that could have been a lawyer spinning words for them to try to avoid potential fines.
> 
> Have you made them aware of what you are seeing?


Sounds good in the paper doesn't it. Like oops I won't do it again. Meet him personally and it's the complete opposite. Close source revealed it's all show. this is the same farm that killed 2 motorists and just last week heard that his 8 year old driving manure tanker on road. You know has to stand up to use clutch and looks like nobody driving until you are beside them.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> If it was me I would call him up and ask him to stop by you want to show him something don't tell him what. If he comes over stay calm show him the problem and ask him to get on top of the situation. Just keep it friendly on your turf if he wants to be a jerk then make some calls. It's family so give him a chance but if he doesn't see your side then it's game on.


+1, I'd be giving him the benefit of doubt also. Looks like he has a fairly large operation, therefore employees. I think we all know how some employees can be sometimes (even if you are watching them like a hawk). 

Larry


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

IH 1586 said:


> Sounds good in the paper doesn't it. Like oops I won't do it again. Meet him personally and it's the complete opposite. Close source revealed it's all show. this is the same farm that killed 2 motorists and just last week heard that his 8 year old driving manure tanker on road. You know has to stand up to use clutch and looks like nobody driving until you are beside them.


Now you got me wavering on my first answer...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;  tuff spot you are in for certain.

Larry


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Forgot the highway spreading this fall. lol Wife and I are out early morning go by the farm and think that's odd roads wet. Well didn't take long to realize that they covered 80% of the road with manure. Drove west into town and turned south, realized they had a leak, turned around in drive way, went south through intersection to a closer field. When we got back 2 hours later fire department was washing the road off. Manure does not wash off easy.

I would like to work there in the off season but the chances are to great something will happen and do not want to be a part of it. One of the tankers I have ran I noticed all four bolts were loose on the hitch. Think they fixed it months later. Oh the stories....now they are over 1000 milking in 2 different states with the purchase of a existing dairy last year.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

It’s hard to know what exactly is the best thing to do. In any case it needs to stop. Around here the DNR would chastise you well for that, and if the EPA got involved they would crucify you. We used to haul dairy manure in the winter too, had to as we didn’t have near enough storage space. It cost a pile of money to build a structure large enough to quit the nonsense of winter spreading so I can see why people are reluctant to build sufficient storage. One thing we found out is that when we quit winter spreading we also lost a lot less nutrient which meant $$$$ in our pocket. I’d be tempted to turn them in to the DNR.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

This sounds like a train reck that is happening not about to . I still say give him a chance but use a short leash.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

pollution like that gives all of us in AG a black eye. I'd say turn em in.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> If it was me I would call him up and ask him to stop by you want to show him something don't tell him what. If he comes over stay calm show him the problem and ask him to get on top of the situation. Just keep it friendly on your turf if he wants to be a jerk then make some calls. It's family so give him a chance but if he doesn't see your side then it's game on.


My thoughts exactly . Meet him at your stream ask him if it is ok to walk the whole way back to his place . Talk and look as you walk &#8230;... Big question is does he have a nutrient management plan and conservation plan . ..Is the plan not working or is he not following it ... If he chopped it all and has hard bare ground ? You would think he has rye cover to chop in spring &#8230; OR is he just spreading too many GPA. Is there erosion on his farm


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

endrow said:


> OR is he just spreading too many GPA.


After reading (some where) that there is a dairy farm in Texas (IIRC), with 100,000 cows. Gets me thinking how far would they have to travel to keep the GPA reasonable?

The same article mentioned that we would 'only' need 90 farmers this size in the USA to produce the milk that is now produced from 9,000,000 cows spread across a large area. 

Victim of our own doing perhaps, with regard to having mega-dairies?

Larry

PS found the article:

https://www.dairyherd.com/article/2020-mega-trends-digital-livestock?__cf_chl_captcha_tk__=f30fa1bcee2d5c8f8fd5549923b0af4042cf5078-1580136985-0-AcNvgo52_n_PfpkGKFS9uFLsF64ZYLt1E8I-epHJi-UtStOU2rlKkMBEgS5goq2HTNmYluxBN1tAUGCINOfvKBmXYZGU8il2Omg3XQwgbjBsgIy9XpQXhTQwTeyRyN7mKkePns2nZ1CB1TrJ1buV88MNTXMWGThP-YfWD13UpoMIvzLurMDgi6arppURKvLfwQBrRWEZO-TWRDw5gTra5cfdLTlzmpBxs_sLHo3rylFcsdnUjRjJcqaEPIlUCxaTL8QV_L-qWuOt1VGhsj_eNbQXvkVY5bDcFNEN1drijN9DWoog0nwuCRN-mB6H6_h78Ic1zxMtBsRRwO7ukM0i3dUAfwkGAbQpLOpadYJWtFI__01zUDZhKZRvqXcYz0pYxkdTu4XYQBCa-Bu61fTgegqleAZ-Z-WQEK14jBWAANAN


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

All evidence washed away this weekend with the warm up. Did an anonymous email last week putting location where the stream goes under a road upstream from me. I do not want to be involved.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

I'd say that was a good middle-of-the-road approach.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

r82230 said:


> After reading (some where) that there is a dairy farm in Texas (IIRC), with 100,000 cows. Gets me thinking how far would they have to travel to keep the GPA reasonable?
> 
> The same article mentioned that we would 'only' need 90 farmers this size in the USA to produce the milk that is now produced from 9,000,000 cows spread across a large area.
> 
> ...


Figure one acre per milking cow for manure application.

So for 100,000 head, assuming they controlled all the ground they needed around them, they would get by easily if everything was in a 7.25 mile radius. Very roughly.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> So for 100,000 head, assuming they controlled all the ground they needed around them, they would get by easily if everything was in a 7.25 mile radius.


With the 'honey wagons' in my neck of the woods, there would be some slippery roads to say the least. -_-

Larry


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Ha! Ya. Got a feedlot near the dairy that seems convinced that ‘fertilizing’ the local roads will make the gravel grow. Clowns. Bigger dairies mostly use a drag hose to apply manure so at least the roads are somewhat safe.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

We here in MN aren't far from not being able to put any N down in the fall. Will all have to be spring applied or side dressed in summer. Too much risk of leaching. Not saying it won't leach in spring, but less likely.

As far as the poo in your canoe, you took the proper approach in my eyes. No hard feelings and EPA will possibly come and inspect, maybe there is a problem with his lagoon. There have been a few I've heard of that were put in incorrectly and seeped out.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

This weekend had hay customer stop and spent almost 2 hours talking on everything from milking to environment and the attitude of my neighbors and local farms. It comes down to nobody cares. He happened to be near the same stream I was the week cousins pit ran over and ran into the stream and saw what I saw. Neighbor/relative across the road has a pit that runs into another of my stream quite often. Another large farm in the county will empty their pit into a stream at night. All these people laugh about it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Location is everything, Completely different story here. People make it a point to know what's required for conservation plans and nutrient management plans. When there is a manure tanker running or a crop something out Someone will be on it. I chuckle when I hear someone say oh I burn all my plastic Run, manure to the stream. And then I spray atrazine a foot and a half from the neighbors well. That won't fly here...... Talk about picky I rent municipal land . They have installed monitoring Wells. They can check what's going on the land And check what running off the land .


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

So this year I am driving past my farm and notice a official looking truck driving around and headed out behind the barn. Figured I had better see what that is all about. It was the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission and they were looking to find access to stream related to a complaint about none other than my cousin. Ended up spending an hour with him showing him different access points to multiple streams. We went back to the stream where the pictures were from in the beginning of this post and the stream was BLACK. Flowed like sludge and everything was dead. He was taking pictures of everything, pulling dead fish out. He wasn't happy. EPA also involved.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

That's a real shame, not only for the crick and surrounding ground but the fact they're throwing away valuable fertilizer some of us would almost kill for sometimes. Just a waste all around. Thanks for keeping us posted.


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