# I've decided to go ahead and dislike wheel rakes



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Today I was baling alfalfa for my cousin. He had his hired man raking windrows together with his double Kuhn rotary rake. Then his hired man ran it into a gas well. Don't worry folks they have a cage protecting the actual well. That's what he ran it into. The cage and well are fine. The rake. Not so much. So to finish raking he got out his Kuhn speed rake. I as well own one of these things. So I was baling along, everything going great. Blue sky, birds singing (actually I couldn't hear them as I was in my A/C cab) I was baling the windrows the rotary rake made. Going about 4.5 mph. Then I hit the windrows the speedrake made. The sky grew dark, birds flew away screaming. I had to decrease speed to about 3 mph-2.5mph. I plugged up the pickup 3 times despite going so slow. The way the speedrake makes the windrow it causes the hay pickup on my baler to kind of make it ball up behind the windguard and in the augers. Because the speed rake makes two little roped windrows so it doesn't feed nearly as good. Now I knew this was going to happen as I had seen this last year, but this just reaffirmed my dislike of even my own Speedrake that I bought before I knew any better. Now I'm in the house because a rain storm came to ruin the party.

Disclaimer. I have not ever baled behind a big Darf or H & S wheel rake. Maybe they do better. But they are still wheel rakes.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Maybe have your raker close the throat on the wheel rake a little next time to make it more like one windrow....see if that will bale better. It is a very fine line on closing it as it can plug(ball up) the rake if you get it too close together.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Maybe have your raker close the throat on the wheel rake a little next time to make it more like one windrow....see if that will bale better. It is a very fine line on closing it as it can plug(ball up) the rake if you get it too close together.
> 
> Regards, Mike


If it's closed together more it wouldn't grab the whole two windrows it was raking. These were very heavy windrows also. When I could go 4 mph I was doing 118 bales an hour. I'll rake the rest tomorrow with my rotary rake and will not hit a gas well.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Grass or alfalfa? Carted style rake? I haven't had any unhappy experiences with wheel rake, but they have most always been high capacity rakes. It is my observation that most wheel rakes don't work as well at their maximum advertised width. It also sounds like the rake was traveling too slow.


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## NebTrac (Aug 12, 2014)

I hear ya. I also run a Kuhn speedrake and it was miles ahead of our H&S Bi-fold. It does very well in our meadow grass hay and I've used it on Alfalfa as well since I bought it 3 years ago.

This year is different. Rain 4 days out of the week. I just bought a Kuhn 4221TH(?) rake and I don't believe I'm going to rake alfalfa with my speed rake again. Very happy so far with it.

It really shined today trying to put up 2.25 T/A oat hay. Mowed on Monday, raked 2 windrows together yesterday, and turned them twice today before baling. The windrows stayed consistent throughout all the turning today. And yes I tried the speed rake on them and that was going to be a mess. Even with the one side up I was going to have a time with plugging up. 94, 1,500 lb 5x6's on 30 acres.

What impressed me most was being able handle the material, not plug and still put out a consistent windrow - all the while moving those wet spots up on top.

I'm really itching to try it on alfalfa, that hasn't been rained on. The main problem I had with the wheel rake is this. If you have a wet clump in the windrow, raking with the V-rake very rarely got it to the outside....most of the time it just rolled that up tighter and there was no way at all for it to dry. I've opend up those windrows on day 5 (2 days after raking) and those clumps looked like they were cut that day.

Troy


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Todays experience was heavy non rained on alfalfa. I can't say I noticed a difference in grass. Except drying time. The rotary does better in grass. The Kuhn Speedrake 112 almost has to be at it's widest to catch our windrows. I used to think it was great. Then last year I noticed I could bale much better after a rotary rake. That's why I bought my Krone rake and the Speedrake is just a spare.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

It sounds as if you are at the MAX of the 112. That doesn't sound like a fair comparison, nor the right tool for the job. Using wrong tool always causes frustration.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> It sounds as if you are at the MAX of the 112. That doesn't sound like a fair comparison, nor the right tool for the job. Using wrong tool always causes frustration.


Lucky for me it's now a backup. And was a backup today also for my cousin.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I just got done baling behind a Kuhn POS speed rake 112 never again same thing Teslan I bale all the time at 5 to 5.5 mph even in 50% moisture alfalfa behind our twin rotor or even a H&S wheel rake but this is the 5 th time I got behind a Kuhn speed rake so far this yr. 2.3 mph and was on the edge of the seat for 40 ac. . I know I was out of the tractor aleast 10 times dig'n the wads out of the pickup' I looked this rake over when I got done and it looked like he had it narrowed up all the way but it made 2 nice roped up windrows in every ac of the field. it the same thing at each of the customers that have a Speed rake and they if have light hay it wades it up tighter and when the ground is wet like here today it rakes alot of mud in the windrow I just know I sure don't care for them


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

In alfalfa I prefer my brother's Vermeer twinrakes over either of the wheel rakes I have owned. I grass I don't have a preference, and in oat hay I much rather have the wheel rakes. Used to have a 12 wheel WRX Vermeer, now have a Rowse WR16. Both were primarily intended for use in corn stalks.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

snowball said:


> I just got done baling behind a Kuhn POS speed rake 112 never again same thing Teslan I bale all the time at 5 to 5.5 mph even in 50% moisture alfalfa behind our twin rotor or even a H&S wheel rake but this is the 5 th time I got behind a Kuhn speed rake so far this yr. 2.3 mph and was on the edge of the seat for 40 ac. . I know I was out of the tractor aleast 10 times dig'n the wads out of the pickup' I looked this rake over when I got done and it looked like he had it narrowed up all the way but it made 2 nice roped up windrows in every ac of the field. it the same thing at each of the customers that have a Speed rake and they if have light hay it wades it up tighter and when the ground is wet like here today it rakes alot of mud in the windrow I just know I sure don't care for them


What baler you using? I probably could have gone a bit faster in the rotor rake windrows, but I didn't want to risk spending time unplugging the thing.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Teslan, snowball, would you guys PLEASE quit screwing around and get a 4' wide baler?! Come on! Slowest I've EVER baled is 6mph!

Just kidding fellas.

I've big baled behind a Allen, TwinStar, and Vermeer rolabars as well as Kuhn SR and Darf wheel rakes. Couldn't ever tell the difference. I think the rolabars do a better job but are certainly slower. Still waiting to big bale behind a double rotary. Maybe in the next couple years.....?!

Sorry about your cuz's rake. That's was only what, a $40K screw up? It wouldn't suprise me to hear that his hired man is looking for another job....

You know if you were a REALLY good cousin you'd just lend him your rotary until he gets a new one


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

I feel your pain after today. Spent more time digging plugs out of the pickup than baling, finally took the wind guard off and had better results. Wheel rakes ain't worth a crap in heavy crop or small fields period. But as for now it will have to do.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Teslan said:


> The way the speedrake makes the windrow it causes the hay pickup on my baler to kind of make it ball up behind the windguard and in the augers.


For the longest time I've recommended people set the windguard at the rear as low as possible (also how the balers ship) and now I'm not so sure. Last couple times I've played in grass hay I've noticed the windguard lifting over a wad or just a larger windrow, then flipping it into a ball right before the packer. I've got a sneaky suspicion that the rear of the windguard is just too heavy and contributes to this problem.

Ever since I've been recommending to adjust the top slot to about the middle to lift the rear of the windguard and open the throat a little. Keep the front down close to the tines to keep the material engaged, but I think raising the rear may reduce how much the windrow wants to flip.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

we run a kuhn double rotor and need to get bigger. i would not consider the small v rakes you have mentioned, but now you've scared me on the big rakes like circle c or darf. i love the rotary's, but they are just so expensive to get one that does 30 feet in a pass. i raked with pin wheels from the sixties into the late eighties and remember all the problems. they tell me these wheel rakes are not your grandfather's pin wheels, but i don't know


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## THENNE (May 3, 2012)

OK guys now you have me back to square one on upgrading our rake. Been using an old JD roll bar for years on heavily chicken littered bermuda/fescue mix grass. Tried an old worn out version v-rake years ago but had wadding etc problems and was told the new Kuhn design would behave way better. They are the most popular rake in the area and nobody has even seen a rotary in these parts. We are baling 10-15 acre meadows so nothing big but wouldn't mind cutting down on the double pass required with the roll bar. Intrigued by the rotaries but is a single any better as the doubles may be too big/expensive for our 600 or so bales/yr operation? Thanks for any input!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

THENNE said:


> OK guys now you have me back to square one on upgrading our rake. Been using an old JD roll bar for years on heavily chicken littered bermuda/fescue mix grass. Tried an old worn out version v-rake years ago but had wadding etc problems and was told the new Kuhn design would behave way better. They are the most popular rake in the area and nobody has even seen a rotary in these parts. We are baling 10-15 acre meadows so nothing big but wouldn't mind cutting down on the double pass required with the roll bar. Intrigued by the rotaries but is a single any better as the doubles may be too big/expensive for our 600 or so bales/yr operation? Thanks for any input!


Singles are great.

Regards, Mike


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I've been using a 14 wheel H&S hi-cap rake since I bought it new in '02. I raked/rd baled 30 acres just yesterday that made five(4X5.5) rd bales to the acre with as much as a hiccup. Older wheel rakes can't come close to making as good a windrow as my hi-cap plus I've raked fields as small as 2 acres with it. My neighbor had a Krone rotary rake that local rumor was cost $30,000 that I wouldn't trade my H&S for. His Krone rotary made a windrow that resembled a teepee and his bales resembled "whiskey barrels" plus I hate to think of repairing flats on all those small tires that appear they need to be on a lawnmower..


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Those tires are 8 ply, only ever had one go flat on me.....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Those tires are 8 ply, only ever had one go flat on me.....


Do Mesquite sprouts abound in Ga.? They come to life in Tx during the drought we had. Can a Krone rotary rake be adjusted to make a 5 ft wide,flat windrow that's no taller in the middle?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Do Mesquite sprouts abound in Ga.? They come to life in Tx during the drought we had. Can a Krone rotary rake be adjusted to make a 5 ft wide,flat windrow that's no taller in the middle?


No. Thankfully


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Maybe your neighbor did not know how to properly operate a rotary rake.....I have had rollabars, and currently use a wheel rake and a rotary. There is a place for both, but the rotary does the best overall job here....but I also keep my locust sprouts(thorns) from maturing large enough to grow thorns with herbicide.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Do Mesquite sprouts abound in Ga.? They come to life in Tx during the drought we had. Can a Krone rotary rake be adjusted to make a 5 ft wide,flat windrow that's no taller in the middle?


Didn't see the last of the post.....yes it could be set for that windrow. They will be taller overall than the wheel rakes however, that's one of the benefits to a rotary, it lifts and places the hay so it's much fluffier and dries in the windrow better.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Teslan, snowball, would you guys PLEASE quit screwing around and get a 4' wide baler?! Come on! Slowest I've EVER baled is 6mph!
> Just kidding fellas.
> 
> I've big baled behind a Allen, TwinStar, and Vermeer rolabars as well as Kuhn SR and Darf wheel rakes. Couldn't ever tell the difference. I think the rolabars do a better job but are certainly slower. Still waiting to big bale behind a double rotary. Maybe in the next couple years.....?!
> ...


I went and looked at his rake and really I couldn't see any problems. Maybe it's bent enough just to not work right but I couldn't see it. The remaining bit to rake I will rake with mine.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> .but I also keep my locust sprouts(thorns) from maturing large enough to grow thorns with herbicide.
> 
> Regards, Mike


When one is custom baling they don't have the opportunity to make the herbicide decision for the landowner.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Didn't see the last of the post.....yes it could be set for that windrow. They will be taller overall than the wheel rakes however, that's one of the benefits to a rotary, it lifts and places the hay so it's much fluffier and dries in the windrow better.


My wheel rakes windrows touch the bottom of my JD 4255's frt axle & clutch housing so I see no need for taller windrows. My tractor has the paint worn thin to GONE on the underside so to me taller isn't better. Granted this tractor has been pulling a rd hay baler every yr since I purchased it in '93. I don't rake hay to dry it but rather rake hay to bale it faster.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> When one is custom baling they don't have the opportunity to make the herbicide decision for the landowner.


True, but the custom operator can make a decision not to bale a porcupine plot.

Regards, Mike


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This is wheel rake work. Very heavy oat hay.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Gearclash said:


> This is wheel rake work. Very heavy oat hay.


At least someone knows how to rake!!!!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I haven't seen as much difference in baling speed and trouble free baling with grass hay between my wheel rake and rotary rake like alfalfa. Especially 1st cutting alfalfa. You can rake alfalfa with a rotary rake much drier then the speed rake without losing leaves. I think it was 2nd cutting last year I went to rake some grass hay with my rotary rake and after a couple rounds the tractor developed a little o ring leak that required time to fix. So I didn't have a tractor available big enough for the rotary so I had to finish with the wheel rake. I do rake to dry hay and the rotary rake windrows were ready to bale 2-3 hours before the wheel rake windrows.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> True, but the custom operator can make a decision not to bale a porcupine plot.
> 
> Regards, Mike


That is very true but when a person has been baling for the same customer for yrs it's difficult to turn them down. Mesquite sprouts don't have to look like a porcupine patch to give one a flat as all it takes is one or two thorns.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> Do Mesquite sprouts abound in Ga.? They come to life in Tx during the drought we had. Can a Krone rotary rake be adjusted to make a 5 ft wide,flat windrow that's no taller in the middle?


Center delivery, it'll work. Side delivery won't make one that wide. Though depending on yield, two passes with a side delivery make a great row to bale.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Maxzillian said:


> For the longest time I've recommended people set the windguard at the rear as low as possible (also how the balers ship) and now I'm not so sure. Last couple times I've played in grass hay I've noticed the windguard lifting over a wad or just a larger windrow, then flipping it into a ball right before the packer. I've got a sneaky suspicion that the rear of the windguard is just too heavy and contributes to this problem.
> 
> Ever since I've been recommending to adjust the top slot to about the middle to lift the rear of the windguard and open the throat a little. Keep the front down close to the tines to keep the material engaged, but I think raising the rear may reduce how much the windrow wants to flip.


I'll have to look at that a little closer. I have played with it a bit and it seemed to me that the lower the win guard is the worse trouble I had. So I have it pretty high up. I've wondered if the roller "wind guard". That every new big baler has now is better. At least if it did ball up with those the tines wouldn't get in the way getting it out.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> Mesquite sprouts don't have to look like a porcupine patch to give one a flat as all it takes is one or two thorns.


Same here with locust.

Regards, Mike


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

On both the D1000 big square and the BR round balers having the wind guard up out of the way seems to work best. In the 30,000 bales that I have run the D1000 I have never plugged it. Ever.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Teslan said:


> I'll have to look at that a little closer. I have played with it a bit and it seemed to me that the lower the win guard is the worse trouble I had. So I have it pretty high up. I've wondered if the roller "wind guard". That every new big baler has now is better. At least if it did ball up with those the tines wouldn't get in the way getting it out.


Despite my recent changes in opinion, I've always felt the chains should be set to let the front of the windguard kiss the windrow and make use of the rear adjustments to control the pitch. Raising it too high increases the chance crop will just roll/boil in front of the tines, but it depends on the crop.

I think the roller rides a little lighter thanks to the springs it uses, but not sure by how much. Is your baler a packer or cutter? I thought all the packers, whether a roller or not, had those tines off the rear of the windguard while cutters didn't.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

ogdenmetalworks.com

I know it's a v rake but here's my next one


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Gearclash said:


> This is wheel rake work. Very heavy oat hay.


Best wheel rake windrow I've ever seen! Congrats


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That Ogden is a nice lookin rake.....my biggest problem with wheel rakes is not cleaning the field good. The rotary pics it clean......depending on how the hay is laying, especially if it's not tedded, the wheel rake just has a hard time with some crops. For transport and speed, hard to beat a good wheel rake....

The windrow the rotary makes is much better than the wheel for small squares, ironically, I like the wheel rake for rounds....usually speed is reason im foolin with rounds anyways...

Wanted to say this as well....I let a feller borrow a single side wheel rake once, brand new basically, he hit something with the leading wheel frame, hard enuf to bend it just a bit, so slight you could hardly tell it.....it never raked right after that, course he never said anything about it either  Sold it at auction.....


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> This is wheel rake work. Very heavy oat hay.


That is a thing of beauty! Bluefarmer I run a 12 wheel Ogden and am very pleased with it never had a rotary but I hear there nice but$$$$$


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

i see on the ogden rakes they make both styles, pushing and pulling, i have been told that the rakes with the wheels pushing the hay work better than the ones pulling. our old rakes including the v rake i had for a month all pulled and they all sucked. haven't had one that pushed yet, so was just wondering. going to hate leaving the rotary but even if you get one big enough you still need to hit it with a small rake. friend has a 53 foot kuhn and rakes my second crop for me. then we have to hit it with the 6002 to make sure everything is turned and to get a windrow that fits in the balers.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

hay rake said:


> i see on the ogden rakes they make both styles, pushing and pulling, i have been told that the rakes with the wheels pushing the hay work better than the ones pulling. our old rakes including the v rake i had for a month all pulled and they all sucked. haven't had one that pushed yet, so was just wondering. going to hate leaving the rotary but even if you get one big enough you still need to hit it with a small rake. friend has a 53 foot kuhn and rakes my second crop for me. then we have to hit it with the 6002 to make sure everything is turned and to get a windrow that fits in the balers.


Pushing hay with a wheel rake is far superior to the rakes that have the raking wheels behind the frame. I've never found a crop my H&S Hi-cap won;t rake cleanly. I bought a new Vermeer R23 in '92 but got tired of failing tooth bar brgs & manually changing from transport to field position & vice-verse.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> two passes with a side delivery make a great row to bale.


I refuse to rd bale any windrows created by 2 passes of a side delivery rake as it's almost impossible of fully filling the bale sides of forming bale because of the roped windrow. Maybe it was poor raking by rake operator.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have never baled behind a rotary rake before as nobody uses them in our area, but what your describing is exactly the difference I find between my NH hi capacity wheel rake and a rolabar rake, have to slow way down and can still jam the pickup when baling behind rolabar rakes.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> I refuse to rd bale any windrows created by 2 passes of a side delivery rake as it's almost impossible of fully filling the bale sides of forming bale because of the roped windrow. Maybe it was poor raking by rake operator.


I was referring to center vs side delivery, both rotary.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Have never baled behind a rotary rake before as nobody uses them in our area, but what your describing is exactly the difference I find between my NH hi capacity wheel rake and a rolabar rake, have to slow way down and can still jam the pickup when baling behind rolabar rakes.


Just imagine then how fast you could go behind a rotary rake.  I have never baled behind a high capacity wheel rake so maybe they are better. I can't see it because the hay turning principle is the same. But I probably am wrong. I'm wrong a lot. Like the time I said I don't know why anyone would need anything besides a Kuhn Speedrake.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Teslan said:


> What baler you using? I probably could have gone a bit faster in the rotor rake windrows, but I didn't want to risk spending time unplugging the thing.


Teslan.. I was running the 4755 Hesston 3x3 baler... I call them Kuhn Need Rakes. That baler has issues with poorly formed windows has it will plug on the outer edges if there are wads of hay and every time I've baled behind 1 of those rakes there are wads I know it was the rake because they had raked about 10 ac with a NH 256 and I got along fine in those widrows


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I finished up the field last night. It needed a couple days to dry off from the rain. My cousin raked it again to get the water out. Even more miserable to bale. 2.5 mph. It was so roped. For miserable fun I would stop and watch the pickup drag in 6-7 feet of hay.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I still like a rotary rake cause it will pick & fluff up a wet windrow , a bar rake ropes it up and a wheel rake drags over the top and bunches up the wet hay and adds some mud just for the trill of running it in your baler..... BUT a rotary rake also becomes a weapon of mass destruction. if you get stupid and try to rake dry alfalfa hay with it.... that's when a wheel rake shines with the exception of some of the cheap bunch builder wheel rakes with no clearance


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

snowball said:


> I still like a rotary rake cause it will pick & fluff up a wet windrow , a bar rake ropes it up and a wheel rake drags over the top and bunches up the wet hay and adds some mud just for the trill of running it in your baler..... BUT a rotary rake also becomes a weapon of mass destruction. if you get stupid and try to rake dry alfalfa hay with it.... that's when a wheel rake shines with the exception of some of the cheap bunch builder wheel rakes with no clearance


He used his single Kuhn rotary rake.....


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Teslan said:


> He used his single Kuhn rotary rake.....


and you still fought Teslan ? what do you think was going on ??


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## longmeadow farm (Jun 26, 2009)

I own a rotary rake (S&K.. I think it's a Miller Pro) anyway my neighbor owns a twin wheel rake..and could go like Hell. Funny thing though he switched to a single rotary this year. I asked him why? He said " you always seemed to get a jump on me drying wise"... "I thought I'd try one. On top of that I can bale faster as well..and make better bales." He told me when I bought my rotary that it was a mistake... seems that he's changed his mind. MY neighbor to the east tried out a wheel rake a few years back. I told him it was a mistake to consider one. Anyway he sent the wheel rake back to the dealer after a few weeks and continued to use his tandem side rakes (or hay beaters as I call them). His wife told me he wants to buy a rotary rake like I recommended.. but his pride gets in the way.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I sure like my twin rotor rake .. I just know better than to rake dry alfalfa hay when it will beat the leaves off it.. I really like the fluffy windrows to bale behind it and the way it lets air though the windrow


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

He has no other rake that would turn it over. The speed rake would just get plugged up as the windrows are to big


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> He has no other rake that would turn it over. The speed rake would just get plugged up as the windrows are to big


Can you raise one side of the SR?....some makes you can.

Regards, Mike


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I'm definitely small time, but here's how it worked for me Friday.
Raked 2 8' discbine swaths together with my small old Kuhn single rotary. This was mixed grass. Baled with my NH 570 behind my 5610. Had to bale in 1st gear or 2nd gear at PTO speed to keep strokes per bale up to 12. Made some nice looking bricks! For my money, there's no beating a rotary!
For what its worth, after reading this topic, I wonder if the time lost raking with a rotary vs a wheel rake can't be gained back in being able to bale faster!
As for damage in Alfalfa, I would suggest gear up and throttle back! Even in grass I generally rake in 6th gear (of 8) at about 1/2 rated PTO speed. rakes clean, makes a nice windrow & doesn't throw hay or shatter leaves!
JMHO, Dave


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

that is one of the problems with rotary rakes. people think they have to over turn them. just need to turn it hard enough to clean the hay at the speed you are going. saves fuel too. if you really know what you are doing and have a 1000 shaft you can just let the tractor idle and get by. you need to have your ... together to do this because you have the chance to really tear up a rake, but you can also rake 250 acres on 30 gallons of fuel.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

After reading this, I to am confused. I bought a Kuhn 110 brand new last year. I did have a slight problem a few weeks back with wet hay, when raking single. I just slowed up a little and it did a much better job. Perhaps its all in the adjustment and speed at which you rake? I have mine set so that it just barely tosses the 2 rows together. And I go like hell. I know I keep hearing the rotary rake is the cats a$$, but that's way more money than I can justify for a rake. After going to this Kuhn, I couldn't be more happy. Am I missing something out of this post?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> After reading this, I to am confused. I bought a Kuhn 110 brand new last year. I did have a slight problem a few weeks back with wet hay, when raking single. I just slowed up a little and it did a much better job. Perhaps its all in the adjustment and speed at which you rake? I have mine set so that it just barely tosses the 2 rows together. And I go like hell. I know I keep hearing the rotary rake is the cats a$$, but that's way more money than I can justify for a rake. After going to this Kuhn, I couldn't be more happy. Am I missing something out of this post?


No you aren't missing anything until you bale behind a rotary rake or maybe a high capacity wheel rake. I thought my SR 112 was great also, until I bales behind a rotary rake.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Just imagine then how fast you could go behind a rotary rake.  I have never baled behind a high capacity wheel rake so maybe they are better. I can't see it because the hay turning principle is the same. But I probably am wrong. I'm wrong a lot. Like the time I said I don't know why anyone would need anything besides a Kuhn Speedrake.


Big difference between my hi capacity wheel rake and a carted one.

Mine has a spring on each wheel so they don't plow dirt unlike a carted wheel rake.

When I was still using a haybine I could set the wheels high enough the stubble would drive them.

With the forward mounted wheels I've never had hay bunch up from lack of clearance.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I see...The guy I bought my big square from had 2 rotaries. Im sure they're great, I just cant justify that high price yet. Im at 50 acres of hay now, and plan to double in the next 2-3 years. Once I hit that mark, maybe Ill try one out. I wish there was one in my area to try once, but theres not.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I find it interesting that one can justify a "big square" for 50 acres, but can not justify a rotary rake!

Not being critical, just a different way of thinking!

Dave


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> I see...The guy I bought my big square from had 2 rotaries. Im sure they're great, I just cant justify that high price yet. Im at 50 acres of hay now, and plan to double in the next 2-3 years. Once I hit that mark, maybe Ill try one out. I wish there was one in my area to try once, but theres not.


No you don't need one for 50 acres. The SP will be fine for now. Also are you raking tedded hay? It maybe doesn't rope hay as much when it's tedded hay as windrowed hay?


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

its not tedded if I can help it. I can justify a big square because I sell all my hay, and I make 30-40% more per ton with it in big squares. I guess using the word "justify" may have been a poor choice of words. Perhaps I should have added "Justify spending another 20 grand for a rake right now, since I just dropped 60 grand into a baler".....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> its not tedded if I can help it. I can justify a big square because I sell all my hay, and I make 30-40% more per ton with it in big squares. I guess using the word "justify" may have been a poor choice of words. Perhaps I should have added "Justify spending another 20 grand for a rake right now, since I just dropped 60 grand into a baler".....


Yeah 20k or 30k for a rake or tedder is kinda hard to swallow considering they only do one simple thing. But then a baler does one thing also......and anymore even $60k gets you well used big baler.


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

It's all relative to what you are used to using. I was using an old Oliver rollabar and thought a rake is a rake...until I upgraded to a NH 258 this year. I feel like its the Cadillac of rakes. I don't know how I did hay before. I'm sure if I ever upgrade to a rotary I'll say the same thing - "how did I get by without it?"

I don't want to say some of us are spoiled with all the complaining about some REALLY nice equipment - but the thought had come to mind.

Although I don't make hay for a living and cover thousands of acres, so my perspective might not be relevant!


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I agree, lucky for me, I found a really nice one that's in great shape. Im a younger farmer, just getting into hay. Im lucky that my father in law is helping me with equiptment since he retired. I really could use more horse on my baler, but I cant justify it, until I start making more money with what I have. Same goes for a bigger "better" rake. Im sure they do a great job, and im sure theyre worth the money, but that doesn't pay for it. The baler actually pays for itself in just a few years vs big rounds. Im by myself, so a large amount of small squares is simply out of the question. And big rounds just don't pay as well. Harder to handle, harder to ship, harder to store, and less money. My next purchase will be a cutter, so I don't have to hire that done, then Ill maybe get one of these fancy rakes you guys are raving about lol


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hokeland-that is funny. Had an old "previously used up by at least two farmers" NH55. My first rake I owned. Grew up with a steel wheel new idea long carriage side delivery knot ball express, and then a NI wheel rake. Thought I had died and gone to heaven with the 55. Pined for a 258 dolly wheel and bought one new in 07. liked and disliked it. liked he extra width for working 9' cutter swaths, did not like it because you could not go at any speed due to the cavitation or vibration in the basket.

However, since I got my Krone single rotor, I do not have a complaint, not even a whimper on that one and it feeds in a baler like a dream-so the short answer at least from my perspective is they are worth the money, even for smaller acreages-clean raking, better drying and fast.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> I agree, lucky for me, I found a really nice one that's in great shape. Im a younger farmer, just getting into hay. Im lucky that my father in law is helping me with equiptment since he retired. I really could use more horse on my baler, but I cant justify it, until I start making more money with what I have. Same goes for a bigger "better" rake. Im sure they do a great job, and im sure theyre worth the money, but that doesn't pay for it. The baler actually pays for itself in just a few years vs big rounds. Im by myself, so a large amount of small squares is simply out of the question. And big rounds just don't pay as well. Harder to handle, harder to ship, harder to store, and less money. My next purchase will be a cutter, so I don't have to hire that done, then Ill maybe get one of these fancy rakes you guys are raving about lol


Yes if you have to hire out cutting down then that should be your next purchase not a rake.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

In the end only you can make the decision. What you are saying is very true, but I'd have done it differently. I'd ve gone with a small inline, grapples and rotary. All this require less hp and is cheaper than big baler. I'd hire out the cutting which is fast and once the operator knows your field can go at it without fear. The purpose of the exercise is to get the hay in as quickly as possible and the rotary will shave off at least 1 day compared to other rakes. So now the rotary is not an unnecessary expense, but an asset to making quality hay. I'm totally with you on rb. Teslan however sees it differently, so there isn't a right or wrong way only the way that applies to your circumstances. Wish you good luck in the endeavour.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Rakes are a here vs there thing. Wheel rakes are hated here because of the dirt they put in the hay. Getting to be a few rotary rakes here for timothy but every one that has them will not use them in alfalfa. Twinstar basket rakes are the rake of choice for alfalfa. Different areas have different needs.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

"Perhaps its all in the adjustment and *speed* at which you rake?" Quoted. Worthless Microcrap computer.

This is perhaps the single most important adjustment of any rake I have ever operated. And the optimum speed will vary by conditions, and can be affected by the adjustments or limits of the rake itself.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jay in WA said:


> Rakes are a here vs there thing. Wheel rakes are hated here because of the dirt they put in the hay. Getting to be a few rotary rakes here for timothy but every one that has them will not use them in alfalfa. Twinstar basket rakes are the rake of choice for alfalfa. Different areas have different needs.


Why not with alfalfa?


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Trillium Farm said:


> Why not with alfalfa?





Jay in WA said:


> Rakes are a here vs there thing. Wheel rakes are hated here because of the dirt they put in the hay. Getting to be a few rotary rakes here for timothy but every one that has them will not use them in alfalfa. Twinstar basket rakes are the rake of choice for alfalfa. Different areas have different needs.





Trillium Farm said:


> Why not with alfalfa?


Must be that they want their alfalfa "roped"!


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This doesn't look roped to me.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Gearclash said:


> This doesn't look roped to me.


Angle that baskets(teeth) are set has a lot to do with roping using a basket type rake such as yours. Your rakes baskets appear to be fairly straight up & down.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

You're right gear, It doesn't look roped!
I've run both basket and rotary rakes, A NH model 57 3 point basket rake, and a Kuhn GA 300 3 point rotary.
However, I have not raked alfalfa with either one!
That said, I can only speculate that the rotary is rough on alfalfa only because it is being spun way faster than necessary! Only other thing I can think of is, perhaps, the slight amount of lift from a basket/roll-a-bar rake helps to some degree, while a rotary uses a sweeping action.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> This doesn't look roped to me. image.jpg


Best rake you can get for the money right there!


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

no but it also looks like no hay. that is my fear when someone tells me a rake will work here. i always see pictures and the windrows are so small and when people from away see pictures of us farming they always say look at the size of the windrows. that's my fear


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Can you raise one side of the SR?....some makes you can.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yes you can.

One thing I learned last week by accident is if you remove the bar across the back of the SR rake you can let one side down at will. The bar has three settings. Transport, Right and right/left. When it right/left, one side will start down and the bar equalizes the motion and pulls the other side down.

I lost a keeper pin on the bar and took it off. Then I discovered I could put one side down at a time.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

I have never operated a rotary rake, only watched them in timothy. The look to me like a great way to beat the leaves off alfalfa and look to be slow. Basket rakes also can do many more different things. With my Twinstars I can rake 2 rows together, rake 2 single rows, turn singles or turn the double rows. I have never seen a rotary that can turn the windrow over so the wet bottom is on top for drying. Typically run 7-8 mph with the Twinstars.

If your roping the hay it's too wet to be raking. This is a very export driven hay market here so high quality is critical.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Jay in WA said:


> If your roping the hay it's too wet to be raking.


I've been waiting on somebody to say this throughout the thread lol. I own and run a Vermeer R23 that's about 40 years old. I bought it, did a little welding on part of the frame put some teeth and a hose on and have been raking for two seasons.

The only time I have a problem is in hay that's too wet, then it wants to rope and bunch. Usually that's the indicator to get the hell out of the field and wait lmao. My friends and neighbors borrow it for thick sorghum Sudan hay when their wheel rakes fail. I have one fellow producer who replaced his R2300 with a Vermeer wheel rake and it bunched/clumped the crop so badly he went and bought another R2300. He told me he would give me a good price on the rake, I went and looked at it and it still had the long stemmed hay tangled in the wheels, told him I wasn't interested.

Around here, the bar rakes are King, gentle on hay and versatile enough for our crops. The teeth in my opinion are easier to change and it breaks less than the wheel rake we used to have. They also pick the fields cleaner without picking up any rocks or debris (very important for my custom baling).

Disclaimer: I only round bale (JD 467 w/mega wide) so I can't comment on performance for square baling, but my ag teacher and long time friend + his brother put up 7000+ Small squares a year behind a R2800 Vermeer and he wouldn't have any other rake.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Jay in WA said:


> I have never operated a rotary rake, only watched them in timothy. The look to me like a great way to beat the leaves off alfalfa and look to be slow. Basket rakes also can do many more different things. With my Twinstars I can rake 2 rows together, rake 2 single rows, turn singles or turn the double rows. I have never seen a rotary that can turn the windrow over so the wet bottom is on top for drying. Typically run 7-8 mph with the Twinstars.
> 
> If your roping the hay it's too wet to be raking. This is a very export driven hay market here so high quality is critical.


Was starting to feel a little old fashion with my twin-rolabar Allens (same thing as Twinstars), so I'm glad to hear you boys are still using them too! I love the versatility as well, can do a lot of things with just just one rake.

If a rolabar is roping bad, it's a sure sign it's too green to rake. They don't leave the windrow as fluffy as a rotary or a push-type wheel rake, but I haven't had many times where it would've been enough to make the difference between getting it out before the rain.

Probably could make the difference in somewhere with high humidity though


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

PackMan If you get a chance try a Twinstar G2-7. The 7 bars are a huge improvement over 5 bars. It's amazing how dry they can rake alfalfa with no leaf loss.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Jay in WA said:


> I have never operated a rotary rake, only watched them in timothy. The look to me like a great way to beat the leaves off alfalfa and look to be slow. Basket rakes also can do many more different things. With my Twinstars I can rake 2 rows together, rake 2 single rows, turn singles or turn the double rows. I have never seen a rotary that can turn the windrow over so the wet bottom is on top for drying. Typically run 7-8 mph with the Twinstars.
> 
> If your roping the hay it's too wet to be raking. This is a very export driven hay market here so high quality is critical.


Rotary rakes are very good in alfalfa. You can rake drier then a wheel rake by far without leave loss. I'm not sure at all what a twin star rake is.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Jay, my Allens are actually 6 bar, but the more, the merrier I guess! Glad you've had good luck with yours too

Teslan, TwinStars (or my Allens) are just twin rolabars with a stout overhead, infinitely adjustable (all from the tractor seat) frame, like a Darf. They are a seasoned favorite here.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> If a rolabar is roping bad, it's a sure sign it's too green to rake.


Well, I don't know about that. We used to rake about 220 acres/year of alfalfa for silage with the R23. Run right, there was not that much of a roping effect. My brother thought that R23 windrows fed through the chopper nicer than merger windrows, but the merger gets the nod for getting enough material together. We try to chop at 65% moisture. We usually had to travel 2-3 mph slower to get the rake to clean up the crop well.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Hey man, I'm defending rolabars

I don't think the roping is either as important or as noticeable with silage as it is with dry hay. Let's compare apples2apples here


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

PackMan I have never seen a 6 bar Allen. Didn't even know they made them. The local dealers have all quit trying to sell Allens because the Twinstars have taken over the market.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

That's funny. I know Allen has changed hands several times, so I thought that they were just being sold under the name TwinStar. Learn something new every day


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

It seems most here have gone away from the twin rollarber types. It was either NH or Vermeer. Now more Darf wheel rakes. The big reason is the dealer doesn't sell vermeer anymore, but does sell Darf. The Kuhn dealer doesn't seem to keep in rotary rakes in stock that often, though I don't go by there much. And the MF and NH rotary rakes just look weak. Years ago I called the Krone dealer about the rotary rakes, which is an hour away and the sales guy said no one liked them because they were to hard to operate. I suspected his customers must be dumb because our single kuhn rotary always did a great job. Now i have the Krone rotary and it is easy to operate. Never misses anything. Easier then the new tedder that's for sure.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

Twinstar is a completely different company. They have made a lot of improvements over the Allen.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

I used to have a Vermeer R23 and comparing Vermeer or New Holland rolabars to Allen & Twinstar is like comparing a cheap, pulling-type wheel rake to a Darf (or a Chevy to a Cadillac). They kinda look the same, but they are a WHOLE lot nicer.

What kind of improvements Jay? I didn't think that there was a whole lot to improve on mine, except maybe another bar or two. Oh, and I must've drank too much last time I looked at my Allens. They are 5-bar.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Our Vermeer rake will make some windrows. But we can control basket speed from the cab. Helps a lot.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

I still think rotaries make the best windrows.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

How do you turn a wet windrow up side down with a rotary?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Jay in WA said:


> How do you turn a wet windrow up side down with a rotary?


If that happens to me, I just nudge it over a bit.....bout 5' or so. Not sure it turns it up side down completely, but ......


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

So I watched a couple of videos of Twinstar rakes raking alfalfa. I just haven't seen rolabar rakes in person for years. The only one of that type I've seen personally is a single NH one for one windrow at a time and it wasn't very good. It roped the hay pretty well so that my dad just gave up on it. It's still sitting unused somewhere. The ones in the videos seem to me that they rope the hay just like any wheel rake does. Or even more so since they are powered. And the windrows left behind look to me suspiciously like the windrows I had to slow down to bale behind a Kuhn speedrake. Now Jay and Packman don't hate my comment. Just saying what I saw in these various videos. And though it may not look like it, but rotary rakes do turn over a windrow pretty decently.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jay in WA said:


> How do you turn a wet windrow up side down with a rotary?


Never had to. Just lucky I guess. I'm sure there is a way though


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Teslan said:


> So I watched a couple of videos of Twinstar rakes raking alfalfa. I just haven't seen rolabar rakes in person for years. The only one of that type I've seen personally is a single NH one for one windrow at a time and it wasn't very good. It roped the hay pretty well so that my dad just gave up on it. It's still sitting unused somewhere. The ones in the videos seem to me that they rope the hay just like any wheel rake does. Or even more so since they are powered. And the windrows left behind look to me suspiciously like the windrows I had to slow down to bale behind a Kuhn speedrake. Now Jay and Packman don't hate my comment. Just saying what I saw in these various videos. And though it may not look like it, but rotary rakes do turn over a windrow pretty decently.


Aw Teslan I won't hate you for that comment! I've got plenty of other reasons!

Seriously though, I really do like the way rotarys leave a windrow, but I also think there are benefits to a twin rolabar too. Handle abuse/rough fields better, versatility, less maintainence, and can rake drier with less leaf damage (my observation, feel free to chime in if your experience is different).

Also, even though they don't flip a windrow 180• over, they really don't have to since they fluff it up so much and facilitate air circulation.

To those of you with rotarys, how well do they pick rained-on alfalfa out off tall regrowth? Seems like they'd chop A LOT of it into your windrow with the sweeping action....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Aw Teslan I won't hate you for that comment! I've got plenty of other reasons!
> 
> Seriously though, I really do like the way rotarys leave a windrow, but I also think there are benefits to a twin rolabar too. Handle abuse/rough fields better, versatility, less maintainence, and can rake drier with less leaf damage (my observation, feel free to chime in if your experience is different).
> 
> ...


As I unfortunately got to find out my rotary picks rained on hay up very good and without getting any regrowth. The baler Is another story on the regrowth though. Really the only maintenance on my krone is just universals. The rotar arms don't have zerks. It's a krone though. Other brands results may be better or worse.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I'll take my $9K rake when it was new that's raked 1000's upon 1000's of acres over a lot higher $$$$$$ rotary any day.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> I'll take my $9K rake when it was new that's raked 1000's upon 1000's of acres over a lot higher $$$$$$ rotary any day.


Ok


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

rjbaustian said:


> its not tedded if I can help it. I can justify a big square because I sell all my hay, and I make 30-40% more per ton with it in big squares. I guess using the word "justify" may have been a poor choice of words. Perhaps I should have added "Justify spending another 20 grand for a rake right now, since I just dropped 60 grand into a baler".....


Your pencil must be way sharper than mine . even on 100 ac of hay your premium's won't pay for the extra cost in the maintenance of a big square baler . they are not cheap to run. and in a year like this where you have to shove wet hay though them your wear'n that baler out almost 2 times faster or hay must be at a all time record price's a 100 miles south of me .. I guess I better load up and head south.. back to the wheel rake ... I watched the local fireworks from under the pickup of a Hesston 4760 baler digging out wades of hay that was raked with a wheel rake ( Kuhn 112 need a real rake) .. ... It was wet hay 30% that was getting wraped and the customer didn't start rake'n it untill 1hr before he wanted me there @ 6 pm .. anyway while I was fighting the shitty windows and digging the pick up out my temper was about to go off like the the fireworks in the sky.. along with my wrap'n crew's.. They then went and got a NH 258 rake and reraked all 40 acs.. And that my friend is how I spent my 4th of July evening picnic


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I'm guessing that those bad mouthing rotaries for any reason, except cost, have not had any extended experience with using a rotary rake!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

snowball said:


> Your pencil must be way sharper than mine . even on 100 ac of hay your premium's won't pay for the extra cost in the maintenance of a big square baler . they are not cheap to run. and in a year like this where you have to shove wet hay though them your wear'n that baler out almost 2 times faster or hay must be at a all time record price's a 100 miles south of me .. I guess I better load up and head south.. back to the wheel rake ... I watched the local fireworks from under the pickup of a Hesston 4760 baler digging out wades of hay that was raked with a wheel rake ( Kuhn 112 need a real rake) .. ... It was wet hay 30% that was getting wraped and the customer didn't start rake'n it untill 1hr before he wanted me there @ 6 pm .. anyway while I was fighting the shitty windows and digging the pick up out my temper was about to go off like the the fireworks in the sky.. along with my wrap'n crew's.. They then went and got a NH 258 rake and reraked all 40 acs.. And that my friend is how I spent my 4th of July evening picnic


I hope you are charging them extra for the sr 112 experience. I can only imagine how roped with windrows are after taking wet hay. An exercise in patience. Better to go extra slow and take extra long sitting in the tractor seat then going faster plugging up and spending extra time pulling hay out.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> This doesn't look roped to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A lot of it has to do with the operator as well, I have a cousin that always tried to rake way too soon with his rolabar rakes, I've round baled his before, stopped to wrap a bale and not only did it suck all the hay in from under the tractor but five foot in front of it as well. When I stop if I rake with my v wheel rake the teeth on the baler tickle the hay in the windrow as it doesn't pull anymore in at all, I imagine a rotary has the same effect.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I'm guessing that those bad mouthing rotaries for any reason, except cost, have not had any extended experience with using a rotary rake!


Only seen one new rotary around here, single rotor, can't tell if it was a claas or Krone.

I wouldn't mind a twin rotor center delivery if you could add something like my center kicker wheels to it or I think Vermeer has some slingers that throw the hay out so it can be brought back in.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Teslan said:


> I hope you are charging them extra for the sr 112 experience. I can only imagine how roped with windrows are after taking wet hay. An exercise in patience. Better to go extra slow and take extra long sitting in the tractor seat then going faster plugging up and spending extra time pulling hay out.


Teslan it was a F.....'n. nightmare I was going 3.2 mph those model hesston baler are great balers but if you get wades of hay dry or wet out on the edges of the pickup it hangs ups ever the cross augers were wrapping up.. I have run a hesston big baler for 18 yrs and have never fought a deal like that and I have baled behind some poor rakes and shitty rake jobs.. It was a Amish farmer and about 30% of our customer base is Amish .. and they all talk among themselves. so I have to be careful about what I say to them .. he had hired this neighbor to rake . because he thought the 8.00 per ac we charge for our 32'twin rotor rake was to high. so we have a new policy going into place .. it will be a 1.00 a bale more if we have to bale behind a customer's rake job .. Personally I will NEVER own anything but a rotatory rake unless something better hits the market.the hay dries alot faster and it's fluffed up nice and you can easily make the windrow to the width required to accommodate the baler.. A poor rake or rake job only makes for a poor bale and a pissed off baler operator... IT's just like everything else in the world you pay for what you get.. I also got a does of it again on the 5th of july this time it was a double header though baled for a huge dairy 120 acs. they have a new 14 wheel NH rake must pull real hard cause the had a JD 8120 F/W/A.. with a non English speaking Mexican running it.. well he left a nice big old pig tail with wades of wet have a the end of every windrow row and let me tell you there was a hell of alot of windrows in these 120 acs again the bonus package that comes with a wheel rake. ... I got a 30 pack of Beer I'am going to drink it all today to forget about the last 3 days


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Just have to share a short story about rotary rakes, especially for the naysayers.

My Deere/Kuhn sales rep (who also happens to be yet another cousin of mine) took a Kuhn rotary out to demo at the farm of a guy who is a big vegetable producer, but also does a fair amount of hay. He was having problems getting a big field of oat hay to dry (big suprise) and needed a solution. Keep in mind, no one around here had ever even seen a rotary up until like 5 years ago.

So my cousin unloads this Kuhn (GA300?) single rotary and the farmer takes one look at it and says "Nick, that damn thing couldn't even stir my oatmeal." Well, they gave it a try anyway. And when my cousin went back to the dealership, he left the rake there and took back a check instead.

I must admit, they don't look like much, but they are starting to make a believer out of me too.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Just have to share a short story about rotary rakes, especially for the naysayers.
> 
> My Deere/Kuhn sales rep (who also happens to be yet another cousin of mine) took a Kuhn rotary out to demo at the farm of a guy who is a big vegetable producer, but also does a fair amount of hay. He was having problems getting a big field of oat hay to dry (big suprise) and needed a solution. Keep in mind, no one around here had ever even seen a rotary up until like 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


We bought a Kuhn ga300 in about 2000. After for Years using a two wheel wheel rake mounted on the front of a tractor. The Kuhn sure made drying hay a lot better.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Running 50 acres of hay, getting 6 ton per acre going off what I got last year for my Big Rounds. Last year I averaged $150/ton. Going off what big squares were going for at about the same quality, they were getting around $250/ton So that's 45 Thousand in Big squares and 75 in big squares. That's 30 thousand more per year. Plus its easier to handle and ship. And more diversity for selling. Even if my figures are a little off, its still a subatantial price increase, so you tell me.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I also don't bale wet hay with it. I spent too much money on this thing to wear it out faster. If I need to bale up wet hay, I roll it up and have it wrapped.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Teslan said:


> We bought a Kuhn ga300 in about 2000. After for Years using a two wheel wheel rake mounted on the front of a tractor. The Kuhn sure made drying hay a lot better.


Those front mounted "windrow turners" went out of style here in the northeast about 40 years ago, just about the same time that narrow conditioners on mo-co's did! Seems that Hesston was the only one making a SP mo-co with full width conditioner back in that era. Now, we seldom even see SP mo-co's! Back then gyro tedders hadn't appeared yet either!


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I propose we have a rake off! Rollabar v roto v V rake


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Nitram said:


> I propose we have a rake off! Rollabar v roto v V rake


Ok, but what brands/models of what and what crop?


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Double post Let's use the best of each of course.. This won't cause a debate


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Something that likes to rope and or tough to pick up


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Nitram said:


> Double post Let's use the best of each of course.. This won't cause a debate


LOL. No debate at all....... I had no idea my little rant in the beginning would start a 6 page thread on rakes. I had thought we already had plenty of threads debating rakes.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Those front mounted "windrow turners" went out of style here in the northeast about 40 years ago, just about the same time that narrow conditioners on mo-co's did! Seems that Hesston was the only one making a SP mo-co with full width conditioner back in that era. Now, we seldom even see SP mo-co's! Back then gyro tedders hadn't appeared yet either!


Our front mounted 2 wheel rake was probably about 40 years old. We always had trouble bending the wheels. If I remember my dad and uncle starting using it about 1983 or so. So they had a good long run.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Teslan said:


> Ok, but what brands/models of what and what crop?


TwinStar vs Darf vs Krone in heavy alfalfa.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Are we gonna have the HayTalk rake-off at the same time we have the HayTalk small baler shoot-out?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Are we gonna have the HayTalk rake-off at the same time we have the HayTalk small baler shoot-out?


Followed by a hay stacker shootout. NH stacker vs. Kuhns accumulator, vs bale baron, vs bale being flung into wagons vs some poor sucker loading bales by hand onto a trailer.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Who's gonna be the guy with the later method......I nominate Sno...


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Don't forget sickle-bar vs disc, and might as well throw in a drum for giggles!
We won't even go there with tedders!  :lol:
Then, there's always the question of whether to condition, or not, and with rolls or fingers/flails.  And, what about "Re-Cons"?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Don't forget sickle-bar vs disc, and might as well throw in a drum for giggles!
> We won't even go there with tedders!  :lol:
> Then, there's always the question of whether to condition, or not, and with rolls or fingers/flails.  And, what about "Re-Cons"?


Then SP swather vs PT mowers?


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Ya gotta envy those in the arid west, that can mow and just let it lay for a week, then bale!  
Fascinates me to see pictures of baling where the grass is green between windrows and yellow where the windrow was! 
Get that, occasionally, here but the bales ain't worth much! :huh: :angry:


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

rjbaustian said:


> Running 50 acres of hay, getting 6 ton per acre going off what I got last year for my Big Rounds. Last year I averaged $150/ton. Going off what big squares were going for at about the same quality, they were getting around $250/ton So that's 45 Thousand in Big squares and 75 in big squares. That's 30 thousand more per year. Plus its easier to handle and ship. And more diversity for selling. Even if my figures are a little off, its still a subatantial price increase, so you tell me.


Hope it works out for you...Like you plan .. i know up here which I'am 100 straight north of you Hay isn't near that high in fact is at a all time record low prices more like 80.00 per/ton on rounds and maybe 150 to 175. for big squares and it better be the best dry clean dairy quaitly hay in the world to bring that.. and your cost per bale to operate a big square baler is much higher than a round baler ...Like I said hope it works out for ya


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

The field is TwinStar Darf & Krone at the post.....Off they go and TwinStar in the lead, followed by Krone and Darf...at the 1/4 post it's TwinStar, Krone is closing in and Darf is trailing.....at the 1/2 Krone is neck to neck with TwinStar Darf is closing fast.... track is fast

at the 3/4 pole Darf is level with Krone and TwinStar........ Now you guys can finish the race! I don't want to be pillored and banished from this forum


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Trillium Farm said:


> The field is TwinStar Darf & Krone at the post.....Off they go and TwinStar in the lead, followed by Krone and Darf...at the 1/4 post it's TwinStar, Krone is closing in and Darf is trailing.....at the 1/2 Krone is neck to neck with TwinStar Darf is closing fast.... track is fast
> 
> at the 3/4 pole Darf is level with Krone and TwinStar........ Now you guys can finish the race! I don't want to be pillored and banished from this forum


And then the H&S hi-cap rake comes out of nowhere and crosses the finish line 1st :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I ain't SKEERED!!


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> Who's gonna be the guy with the later method......I nominate Sno...


I can do it ... I still have the same bale hook I broken in as a kid... What's the standing record ? 100 or 125 bales per.hr ? higher ? I want you as my wing man devildawg.. your just drive smooth and fast . I think we break this down in to age groups 21 and under .. then 21- 50 yrs old.. then our group the over 50.. I think after we win the over 50 with a couple hrs rest and a few cold ones !!! we have a dam good shot at the over-all championship.. or a heart attack I'am not sure which.I better start training today. I think we can set a new record..... I think this hay fest is a great idea.. I sure want to watch the rake-off..I don't want to judge it or have to bale up the mess when it's over. What is the prizes? ( Members Only jackets ? )


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Teslan said:


> Followed by a hay stacker shootout. NH stacker vs. Kuhns accumulator, vs bale baron, vs bale being flung into wagons vs some poor sucker loading bales by hand onto a trailer.


No not loading on a trailer.. on a flat rack behind a baler the standard 8x16 hayrack


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Don't forget sickle-bar vs disc, and might as well throw in a drum for giggles!
> We won't even go there with tedders!  :lol:
> Then, there's always the question of whether to condition, or not, and with rolls or fingers/flails.  And, what about "Re-Cons"?





Teslan said:


> Then SP swather vs PT mowers?


C'mon, guys! Sickle v Disc? SP vs PT? Those aren't even contests!!!


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Yes PackMan be like what I started out with vs now... 1014 Hesston /side delivery rake and a 5800 Hesston rounder manual tie vs 1030 mc Vermeer/ 12 wheel V rake and a 605 super J with accubale plus twin tie not to mention upgrade on tractors


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

. . . and the Vermeer R2800 will already be started on the next field! LOL!

I would like to try a rotary rake sometime, if I can find one that combines two windrows into one and sets the new windrow on the ground between the old ones.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Gearclash said:


> . . . and the Vermeer R2800 will already be started on the next field! LOL!
> 
> I would like to try a rotary rake sometime, if I can find one that combines two windrows into one and sets the new windrow on the ground between the old ones.


http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1133&Manu=KUHN&Mdltxt=GA6501&mdlx=exact

Here's your chance. There's even a good deal on a used one if Farley, IA, wherever that is


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Yall must be out of hay to bale???? Lol.

Come see if yalls equipment can keep up in this Texas heat, and I'm square baling tomorrow so yall feel free to bring rakes, balers accumulators and whatever else you need to make square bales get in the barn cause I damn sure don't want to do it


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> And then the H&S hi-cap rake comes out of nowhere and crosses the finish line 1st :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I ain't SKEERED!!


Jim I knew you were going to be the dark horse in this race


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

PackMan2170 said:


> http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1133&Manu=KUHN&Mdltxt=GA6501&mdlx=exact
> 
> Here's your chance. There's even a good deal on a used one if Farley, IA, wherever that is


Used to have a girlfriend in Farley, IA... not too far from Dyersville, over towards Pella...

Went to the Spec-Cast factory in Dyersville and met Joe Ertl III and toured the Kinze plant on I-80... (IIRC the freeway number...)

Later! OL JR


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

PackMan2170 said:


> http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1133&Manu=KUHN&Mdltxt=GA6501&mdlx=exact
> 
> Here's your chance. There's even a good deal on a used one if Farley, IA, wherever that is


Farely is 20 miles west of Dubuque Ia. on us 20.. its about 65 miles south west of me .. Dubuque is where we go to do all our major shopping .


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Used to have a girlfriend in Farley, IA... not too far from Dyersville, over towards Pella...
> 
> Went to the Spec-Cast factory in Dyersville and met Joe Ertl III and toured the Kinze plant on I-80... (IIRC the freeway number...)
> 
> Later! OL JR


Dang Luke that girl in Farley, IA. must have been a real looker to drive from Tx to Ia for a date.


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## PA Katahdins (Jul 20, 2010)

I don't see what's so bad about the Kuhn speed rakes like everyone says? Bought a sr110 this year after first cutting, so have only used it once so far. Raked 20 acres of pure alfalfa together in just over an hour and it certainly didn't rope any hay together, only gripe I have is how it leaves the windrow at the ends of the field so when you take the headlands last you have to spread out a few clumps here and there. Raked the hay at around 50% moisture and it was big square baled the next day with a Kuhn big square baler with no problem and I wrapped it all.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Spent a lot of time at the NH dealer looking at the NH Prorotor rakes.

Not to keen on the rear steering, looks like a lot of potential sway going down the road when things start to get a little loose.

Not really happy about having to spend that kind of money on something built in the Czech Republic.

Neither the owner or the salesman had any ideal how it raised over your endrows or anything else about it.

If I was ever to go with a rotary rake it'd have to be a center delivery, but would need center kicker wheels like my v-rake has. With our moist soils and humidity I can't see raking hay that's been tedded and building a row over hay that won't be moved at all, I think Vermeer offered hydraulic flingers on one of there rakes, if manufacturers of rotary rakes offered that option for their rakes then I'd look a lot harder.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I just want to hear the date and location of the hay equipment Olympics.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

mlappin said:


> Not really happy about having to spend that kind of money on something built in the Czech Republic.


Would not hold a grudge against anything "Made in Czech Republic." Have you ever seen their optics? Some of the finest in the world. Their sporting arms are pretty decent too.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

PackMan2170 said:


> Would not hold a grudge against anything "Made in Czech Republic." Have you ever seen their optics? Some of the finest in the world. Their sporting arms are pretty decent too.


+1


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Lostin55 said:


> I just want to hear the date and location of the hay equipment Olympics.


In my hayfield today. Be here by 11 lol


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> If I was ever to go with a rotary rake it'd have to be a center delivery, but would need center kicker wheels like my v-rake has. With our moist soils and humidity I can't see raking hay that's been tedded and building a row over hay that won't be moved at all, I think Vermeer offered hydraulic flingers on one of there rakes, if manufacturers of rotary rakes offered that option for their rakes then I'd look a lot harder.


In my brief experience of tedding I discovered that is a small issue for me with my rotary rake. When I wouldn't ted it doesn't matter. However for tedded hay I found that if I keep my center delivery rotary rake spread as narrow as it goes it only leaves about 2-3 inches of tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. If I leave the rake all spread out to gather as much tedded hay as possible it leaves about 1-1 1/2 feet tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. Big difference. Though narrow I'm not gathering with the rake as much tedded hay as I could.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> In my brief experience of tedding I discovered that is a small issue for me with my rotary rake. When I wouldn't ted it doesn't matter. However for tedded hay I found that if I keep my center delivery rotary rake spread as narrow as it goes it only leaves about 2-3 inches of tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. If I leave the rake all spread out to gather as much tedded hay as possible it leaves about 1-1 1/2 feet tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. Big difference. Though narrow I'm not gathering with the rake as much tedded hay as I could.


So how are they makeing a 5' wide windrow for a rd baler?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Dang Luke that girl in Farley, IA. must have been a real looker to drive from Tx to Ia for a date.


Yeah, I used to get around... New Jersey was the farthest though... went up there to meet a girl I'd been writing on the internet after my girlfriend in Charlotte, NC, who I'd driven all the way out from the Houston area to see over Thanksgiving because she couldn't afford to go home to Missouri for the holiday, couldn't make up her mind if she wanted me there or not...

I'd broken a date to meet and visit the girl in New Jersey to be with her, and she treats me like that?? NOT... threw my crap in the car and headed north-- got to West Milford, NJ in the wee hours of the morning, slept a few hours in the car in a grocery store parking lot, bought some roses, and knocked on the door 20 minutes later...  Folks were really nice in NJ, but geez I couldn't imagine living there... having your front door 3 feet from the highway is just freakish IMHO...

Actually had two girlfriends in Iowa... thought about marrying the one in Clarion, actually. Before I met my wife I've been happily married to for almost 14 years... She's originally from Indiana but was living in Nashville at the time... I lived there with her for about a year after we got married...

The girl in Farley and I were basically just good friends... nothing really came of it... but I REALLY loved going to Iowa... If I wasn't going to live in Texas anymore, I think I'd settle in Iowa (or Indiana, but Iowa is prettier IMHO).

Later! OL JR


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> So how are they makeing a 5' wide windrow for a rd baler?


I don't know about the round baler part, but even narrowed as far as it went it was making about a 5 foot windrow. But that is 1st cutting grass. It would be smaller other cuttings so you would need to widen the rake out for a wider windrow.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Would not hold a grudge against anything "Made in Czech Republic." Have you ever seen their optics? Some of the finest in the world. Their sporting arms are pretty decent too.


Which optics are you referring to?


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> Which optics are you referring to?


A quick search and I came up with Meopta, which is supposed to rival German glass. I have personally never seen this brand.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Lostin55 said:


> A quick search and I came up with Meopta, which is supposed to rival German glass. I have personally never seen this brand.


I am partial to Zeiss, Nikon, and Leupold. I need to break down and buy a good set of binoculars. My cheapo prostaff are ok, but need a nice 12x set. Who knows, maybe one day I will turn my cabelas points into optics.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Meopta. Very good stuff. They also supply lenses for the Zeiss Conquest line (just the scopes, I believe). I am a proud owner of several.

I also have a Zeiss Diascope 20-60x85FL that has "Made in Czech Republic" stamped right on the box. It has Schott (Zeiss) glass though.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Anybody else getting the feeling that we are WAAAY of topic?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Meopta. Very good stuff. They also supply lenses for the Zeiss Conquest line (just the scopes, I believe). I am a proud owner of several.
> 
> I also have a Zeiss Diascope 20-60x85FL that has "Made in Czech Republic" stamped right on the box. It has Schott (Zeiss) glass though.


Off topic probably. But curious on quality optics.

I happen to have a new conquest handy. They only like to advertise "assembled in usa". Quick once over of box, scope, and manual says nothing other.

Looks like them Czechs can make some nice stuff.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> Off topic probably. But curious on quality optics.
> 
> I happen to have a new conquest handy. They only like to advertise "assembled in usa". Quick once over of box, scope, and manual says nothing other.
> 
> Looks like them Czechs can make some nice stuff.


Unfortunately, as you are probably discovering, fine optics are quite addictive. And I am a serious junkie. Once you get to using Zeiss and Leica its hard to not get pissed off looking through a Simmons or BSA.

Its like getting a taste for Maker's Mark or Crown and then trying not to gag on 10High or Evan Williams Green.....


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Might as well see if we can get this to 10 pages--after the Great Haytalk Rake shoot out we can go to the back 40 and pop some varmits long distance and down a little suds while we're at it.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Unfortunately, as you are probably discovering, fine optics are quite addictive. And I am a serious junkie. Once you get to using Zeiss and Leica its hard to not get pissed off looking through a Simmons or BSA.
> 
> Its like getting a taste for Maker's Mark or Crown and then trying not to gag on 10High or Evan Williams Green.....


Come on.. Simmons? Bsa? You are right. It would be like trying to drink jack daniels. Maybe ok to start. But in the end everything would be fuzzy.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Unfortunately, as you are probably discovering, fine optics are quite addictive. And I am a serious junkie. Once you get to using Zeiss and Leica its hard to not get pissed off looking through a Simmons or BSA.
> 
> Its like getting a taste for Maker's Mark or Crown and then trying not to gag on 10High or Evan Williams Green.....


What do you compare to a Conquest? I haven't used the one I have mounted to get a true comparison yet. I do like what I see.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I am more than a little surprised that Swarovski hasn't been mentioned. They have some pretty nice glass. That being said, I have Ziess, Leica, and Huskemaw also.
In Bino's I am a huge fan of Swarovski, but the higher end Nikon's are decent. As it regards rifle scopes it depends on the application. Schmidt and Bender have high end glass and so does Bushnell. For those not familiar with the high end stuff, the Bushnell scopes that I am talking about aren't the Walmart or corner gun store variety of riflescope. These scopes are more tactical in nature.
For hunting I am getting to be a big fan of the Huskemaw's. The big three are always nice too. Several companies are putting out premium glass.
For me I guess it all boils down to the application and user. I don't think that there has ever been a time that more high quality options were available.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

I'll tell ya what fellas, so as not th hijack Teslans thread, I'll start an Optics thread in the "chit-chat" forum and we can pick it up there


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Just to get back on track here -- I've been checking out videos of some of the big rotaries at work, and I just can't understand why they spin them so fast! They'll rake clean, even at a much slower rotation!


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Just to get back on track here -- I've been checking out videos of some of the big rotaries at work, and I just can't understand why they spin them so fast! They'll rake clean, even at a much slower rotation!


I think it's for effect. Like the ground they do it on, just like our farms, dontcha know it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Just to get back on track here -- I've been checking out videos of some of the big rotaries at work, and I just can't understand why they spin them so fast! They'll rake clean, even at a much slower rotation!


No sometimes different speeds are needed. I operate mine at about 425 pto rpm. Slower then that in alfalfa in misses a bit. Faster is useless. I drive about 7.5 mph.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Question for long time rotary users: how many acres can rotary rakes cover before they start to need significant repairs? Width of the rake would make a difference of course.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I can't answer about my krone double rake as I haven't had it long, but we used our Kuhn gm300 for about 12 years before it was put on vacation. Probably did 400-500 acres a year. It was put on vacation because we bought the big square baler and stopped using it. Still in great shape. Now our double rake would cover really half the acres as it takes half as many trips up and down the field as the Kuhn did. I suspect a lot of the issues that come with any rake is the roughness or smoothness of the fields that it operates in. Now our first Kuhn rake lasted 2 years. For some reason the bolts would always becoming loose even when I used locktite. Until one day the outer guard came off while in use and got tangled up in the rotors causing all kinds of havoc. Traded it that day for the one we have now. Also I feel that how long a rotory rake will last as to do with the quality and type of wheels it runs on. Our first Kuhn just ran on two wheels then 2nd Kuhn runs on four. Meaning less bouncing around on rough terrain.


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## foz682 (Jan 10, 2013)

I used a Frontier 12 wheel rake a little last year and for all of our hay this year. The only problem I see with it is that it drags in a lot of live material and trash. The design of this particular rake makes it a bit clumsy, not really made for our hills.

It works sweet when doing silage/ baleage, raking in 3 windrows into one, speeds things up big time.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Teslan said:


> No sometimes different speeds are needed. I operate mine at about 425 pto rpm. Slower then that in alfalfa in misses a bit. Faster is useless. I drive about 7.5 mph.


X2 in wet hay like 50% i spin mine pretty fast and dry alfalfa drive fast and spin slow .. as not to beat the leaves off


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Well, I do have one small issue with my old Kuhn rotary, GA 300 GM! When doubling my windrows, in 1st crop with some RCG, it has a tendency to carry some of the windrow around to the rear of the rake, due to the tine arms not having the offset to lift them higher to clear the windrow! Other than that you can't beat it with a stick!   That is putting 16 feet into one windrow!  Baling in 1st gear with the 5610 & 570!  575 would be nice for the extra width of the pickup!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> In my brief experience of tedding I discovered that is a small issue for me with my rotary rake. When I wouldn't ted it doesn't matter. However for tedded hay I found that if I keep my center delivery rotary rake spread as narrow as it goes it only leaves about 2-3 inches of tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. If I leave the rake all spread out to gather as much tedded hay as possible it leaves about 1-1 1/2 feet tedded hay undisturbed under the windrow. Big difference. Though narrow I'm not gathering with the rake as much tedded hay as I could.


Thing is though, for the most part what you'd consider poor drying conditions in your area might be pretty good compared to normal here. Sometimes with high humidity and moist soils you can't leave any of it unmoved when raking.


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