# When to run the tedder?



## THENNE

We have been discussing when the optimum time in the curing process and the coffee shop answers are all over the place! I hate to use the tedder at all but we have some heavy chicken littered fields and often just have to. Opinions on timing to be the most effective and limit leaf loss etc? Thanks Guys


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## Vol

THENNE said:


> We have been discussing when the optimum time in the curing process and the coffee shop answers are all over the place! I hate to use the tedder at all but we have some heavy chicken littered fields and often just have to. Opinions on timing to be the most effective and limit leaf loss etc? Thanks Guys


If you ted shortly after mowing (same day or next day mid-morning) your hay will dry quicker and you have very little worries about leaf loss.

Regards, Mike


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## CockrellHillFarms

I would 2nd what Vol said. I would prob ted right after mowing. That way you get an even dry down.


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## Will 400m

It realy depends on the crop. Heavy hay where the ground is getting little sun to dry it out I would cut into a tight windrow in the morning so the ground gets a chance to dry some and ted the next day after the due burns off then again the next morning. Light crop spread it wide and ted the next day. Now this is all for grassy hay no one up here in my area has done alfalfa the weather never cooperates. But thats here and with my fields so take it as you will.


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## THENNE

Thanks guys for the replies as I was not sure if I was in the correct forum. The "even cure" is a great point and solidifies my day of or early day after cut plan! Thanks again


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## hay wilson in TX

[quote name='Will 400m'] Heavy hay where the ground is getting little sun to dry it out I would cut into a tight windrow in the morning so the ground gets a chance to dry some and ted the next day.[/QUOTE]

The applications of the basic truths require differing management.

Our friends at the Universities have measured the difference in curing times over damp soils both ways and their findings are the hay cures faster spread out to cover 100% of the ground than if dropped into a windrow and late spread out. ( If the sun is shining!)

A full width swath is light enough to sit on top of the stubble and not sit on the "dirt". This aids drying. (Also there is less dirt getting baled up in the hay.) 
Spread out in full sun shine the stomata in the leaves stay open and the hay can cure down enough to stop respiration before sunset. In the absence of sun light the stomata close and that avenue for moisture escape is closed for that hay.

The sun actually heats the hay and that increases the vapor pressure inside the plant and this extra pressure forces moisture out the nearest openings.

NOW the quality of the direct sun shine in CT is not as intense as it is along the Gulf Coast. Dan Undersander talking for Wisconsin and Southern Canada says direct sunshine is not as effective as a good breeze and a lower humidity.

A constant is it is better to rake or use a tedder when the humidity is at or above 90%, down next to the hay.

For Cured Hay with 70% RH or less we can bale small square bales and they will be in the 18 to 20 percent moisture range. With a 65% RH we can bale large high density bales. (Growers in the Arid West are not worried about having a humidity low enough to bale but want a humidity high enough to bale and save the leaves.)

Now HERE in the CenTex we can go from 70% humidity to 50% humidity, down next to the hay, in two or three hours. IF I expect to have more hay than can be baled in 3 hours, that morning I will rake some of the hay that morning, with surface dew on the hay. This rolls moisture into the windrow and extends my baling window almost another hour.

HERE the day before baling the hay is raked at first light. The day of baling I can expect to start baling about 11 am CDT and need to be done by 1 pm CDT, as found here. 
The hay will be in the barn by Supper Time. 
During our 2011 drought the humidity was almost never high enough to rake and seldom high enough to bale any time during day light. I did not have hay to bale but we went almost a month when the humidity did not get high enough to bale any time during the day or Night. ( ! )
Some Western Hay Growers simply spray their hay 15 minutes ahead of the baler. Others have a machine to inject water into the windrow. There are a few who use a steam generator to pipe steam into the windrow, immediately ahead of the baler. Those grower get to bale during day light. These growers must rake their hay into the baling windrow right after mowing or lose most of their leaves.

We all must work With Our Climates,

Your management style THERE may not be wrong for your microclimate, but it would be wrong for the microclimate HERE. 
The Hay management style used here would be a disaster in Nevada.

For the curious the first cutting is in the barn HERE. 
Here we dodge rains to cut in late March thru early June. 
Then it quits raining and on this farm there is no hay to cut until after the Labor Day Rain.

There is so much good in the worst of us,
and so much bad in the best of us,
That it hardly behooves any of us,
To talk about the rest of us.


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## Texasmark

Thanks Mr. Wilson for your input. I often wondered about the ww bare ground vs tedded hay and now I have the answer. With the scientific approach you apparently take to haying, do you do Alfalfa in small squares for sale to horse owners?

I'm NE of you about 30 miles S. of the river in N. TX. In Houston Black Clay. I do rolls for cows that sit out in the weather and the crop has been sorghum sudan or mixed grasses. This year I planted Pensacola Bermuda pretty much and I am really impressed. My haying operation is pretty much seat of the pants. My main problem is waiting out the curing process.....I just have to force myself to wait to bale till it's ready. Butttt I am getting better.

Thanks,
Mark


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## JD3430

We can't seem to string together 5 days without rain. Every day it "30% chance of afternoon showers".
I just cut & tedded a small customer for custom baling Thursday late in the day. Hay is on ground curing. Of course there's a 30% chance of rain every day.
Hay is super fine. Stems very thin but lots of clover mixed in.

Not ready to bale/rain pending.........looks like the mantra of the summer.


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## urednecku

JD3430 said:


> We can't seem to string together 5 days without rain. Every day it "30% chance of afternoon showers".
> I just cut & tedded a small customer for custom baling Thursday late in the day. Hay is on ground curing. Of course there's a 30% chance of rain every day.
> Hay is super fine. Stems very thin but lots of clover mixed in.
> 
> Not ready to bale/rain pending.........looks like the mantra of the summer.


Pretty close to the same here. But here, that 30% means 70% it won't rain.....depending on the season! A couple weeks ago I was rushing to get a couple acres baled & up before a 75% rain hit us, radar showed it almost here. I felt 1 drop....and never saw a drop hit the dusty hood of the tractor.

And right now I have about 20 acres I'm wishing to cut at least once before the summer rains hit, but I think I'm too late.


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## mlappin

hay wilson in TX said:


> The applications of the basic truths require differing management.
> 
> Our friends at the Universities have measured the difference in curing times over damp soils both ways and their findings are the hay cures faster spread out to cover 100% of the ground than if dropped into a windrow and late spread out. ( If the sun is shining!)
> 
> A full width swath is light enough to sit on top of the stubble and not sit on the "dirt". This aids drying. (Also there is less dirt getting baled up in the hay.)
> Spread out in full sun shine the stomata in the leaves stay open and the hay can cure down enough to stop respiration before sunset. In the absence of sun light the stomata close and that avenue for moisture escape is closed for that hay.


My recommendation to mow and leave it in as narrow as rows as possible come directly from Purdue. Things must be different in Indiana I guess. After five years of monsoons every spring and dealing with ground so wet it will barely support the weight of a tractor and discbine I'm of the opinion that making as narrow a row as possible when mowing and allowing the ground to dry between the rows is so you don't cut any more tracks when you ted, rake and bale than you already have while mowing.

I sprayed five hay fields this spring and no-tilled em to corn. 3 were because of wet soils and the resulting tracks in said hay fields that killed the crowns of the alfalfa. Leaving four wheel tracks while mowing, the tedder is probably light enough not to cause any damage, but the tedding tractor will, the rake and raking tractor leaves tracks, the baler and baling tractor will most assuredly leave tracks. By time it's mowed, tedded, raked and baled you've driven over as much as fifty percent of the surface and have possibly at least damaged the crowns or even damaged them to the point of killing the plant. I should have have taken pictures early this spring of one of the fields I sprayed. Streaks of nothing but small weeds and grass that directly correspond to the wheel spacings of the tractor and mower, the tedding tractor, the raking tractor and the baling tractor and baler with alfalfa still growing between the wheel tracks. But with all those passes, 50% of the alfalfa was gone.


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## somedevildawg

I always let the hay stay in the windrow until the following day, then I Ted in the mid morning.


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## Cropfarmgirl

Do you use a Kuhn Hay bob 360


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## mlappin

Vol said:


> If you ted shortly after mowing (same day or next day mid-morning) your hay will dry quicker and you have very little worries about leaf loss.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Most around here mow one morning, then ted the next before the dew burns off, if any luck you can rake that afternoon and get it baled before the dew starts to set again. If not then it will definitely be ready the third day, normally.

Most guys around here that have tried tedding directly after mowing end up tedding again the next morning as the dew mats the hay tight to the ground. With the extra trip and fuel to ted the second time and the fact that it rarely gets dry any faster than tedding the second morning, most have completely abandoned the practice.

The few that still do ted directly after mowing usually have day jobs and can't be around the next morning to ted. Tedding directly after mowing here in that situation definitely has advantages over not tedding it at all as least then it's spread out.

Your local micro climate might be suitable to either scenario I have described, experience will be the best teacher for your area.


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## somedevildawg

Cropfarmgirl said:


> Do you use a Kuhn Hay bob 360


I don't even know what a kuhn hay bob 360 is.....that sounds like two different companies, but perhaps kuhn built a machine called the hay bob, as ridiculous as that is......what is it and what kinda problemo you having with it?


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## rjmoses

Had 15 acres of orchardgrass down over extremely wet ground this week.

Day 1 - Mowed starting about 10 AM, three seep springs working, temp about 92, 15+ MPH southerly wind, moco set to drop a 90% width (wanted to leave space for one tractor tire so I wouldn't be smashing hay into the ground more than necessary.)

When I was about 1/2 done, checked what had been mowed at the start. Found that the top was drying fast, but the underneath was soaking wet. My cousin started tedding about 2:00.

Day 2 - Temps in the mid 90's, 10-15 mph winds. Flipped it over at about 1 PM.

Day 3 - Temp about 80, 5 mph wind, high humidity in the early morning. Started raking about 1 PM, started baling at 2. Moisture ran about 18-19% except in the seep spring areas. Applied 4 Lbs acid.

The combination of wind, temperature and ground moisture led me to deciding to flip it twice. The top was drying fast because of wind and temperature, but the underneath was drying slow due to ground moisture.

15 acres produced a little over two tons/acre.

I would NOT have done it this for alfalfa.

Hope this helps

Ralph


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## JD3430

rjmoses said:


> Had 15 acres of orchardgrass down over extremely wet ground this week.Day 1 - Mowed starting about 10 AM, three seep springs working, temp about 92, 15+ MPH southerly wind, moco set to drop a 90% width (wanted to leave space for one tractor tire so I wouldn't be smashing hay into the ground more than necessary.)When I was about 1/2 done, checked what had been mowed at the start. Found that the top was drying fast, but the underneath was soaking wet. My cousin started tedding about 2:00.Day 2 - Temps in the mid 90's, 10-15 mph winds. Flipped it over at about 1 PM.Day 3 - Temp about 80, 5 mph wind, high humidity in the early morning. Started raking about 1 PM, started baling at 2. Moisture ran about 18-19% except in the seep spring areas. Applied 4 Lbs acid.The combination of wind, temperature and ground moisture led me to deciding to flip it twice. The top was drying fast because of wind and temperature, but the underneath was drying slow due to ground moisture.15 acres produced a little over two tons/acre.I would NOT have done it this for alfalfa.Hope this helpsRalph


If I tried to do that, I'd end up with some really tough, 25% hay. 
The reason I know that is because that just happened to me. Lol.


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## Cropfarmgirl

The problem I'm having with the 2012 Kuhn Hay bob 360 is.... We have the alfalfa hay in windrows, and when we straddle the windrow with the Kuhn hay bob, the one wheel spinner turns and fluffs the hay beautiful, the other wheel spinner acts as the hay gets caught on the teeth and spins some of the loose hay into the open and we have a mess between the windrows. Not sure what to do, we did grind on the teeth to make sure it was a smooth surface. Not sure, but we are thinking to bend the teeth more so the teeth will release the hay in the center vs loosing the hay to the side of the windrow. Any comments???


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## somedevildawg

Cropfarmgirl said:


> The problem I'm having with the 2012 Kuhn Hay bob 360 is.... We have the alfalfa hay in windrows, and when we straddle the windrow with the Kuhn hay bob, the one wheel spinner turns and fluffs the hay beautiful, the other wheel spinner acts as the hay gets caught on the teeth and spins some of the loose hay into the open and we have a mess between the windrows. Not sure what to do, we did grind on the teeth to make sure it was a smooth surface. Not sure, but we are thinking to bend the teeth more so the teeth will release the hay in the center vs loosing the hay to the side of the windrow. Any comments???


I really don't know how this machine functions...except to know that it is a tedder and a rake....perhaps one is spinning and acting as a tedder and the other is acting like a rake. I have no idea really....start a new thread with a title "kuhn rake help". See what happens there.....post it under "equipment"


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## cwright

Cropfarmgirl said:


> The problem I'm having with the 2012 Kuhn Hay bob 360 is.... We have the alfalfa hay in windrows, and when we straddle the windrow with the Kuhn hay bob, the one wheel spinner turns and fluffs the hay beautiful, the other wheel spinner acts as the hay gets caught on the teeth and spins some of the loose hay into the open and we have a mess between the windrows. Not sure what to do, we did grind on the teeth to make sure it was a smooth surface. Not sure, but we are thinking to bend the teeth more so the teeth will release the hay in the center vs loosing the hay to the side of the windrow. Any comments???


I have not seen or used one of those but I went to the Kuhn site and saw the 360 was a dual purpose tedder and rotory rake. The tine angles and fence angles are changed to either ted or rake and it sounds like one side is set wrong.

Do you have an operations manual if so check the linkage that sets the tine angle and the fence angle one or both on that side is set wrong. Maybe they are bent or a lock pin missing or broken.

CW


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## Cropfarmgirl

Thanks for the comments. We have played with the fences and set them at many different angles. Some of the hay just won't release from the teeth, and just keeps coming around on the teeth. We are going to be playing again with this hay bob and see if we can get it work. I will say, it keeps the leaves on the alfalfa, and you can sure go fast with the machine. I just wish it wouldn't leave a messy windrow on one side. So wish us luck today! Also who ever wrote the manual,, just didn't put enough information in it. They should have a trouble shooting area for problems.


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## cwright

Cropfarmgirl said:


> Thanks for the comments. We have played with the fences and set them at many different angles. Some of the hay just won't release from the teeth, and just keeps coming around on the teeth. We are going to be playing again with this hay bob and see if we can get it work. I will say, it keeps the leaves on the alfalfa, and you can sure go fast with the machine. I just wish it wouldn't leave a messy windrow on one side. So wish us luck today! Also who ever wrote the manual,, just didn't put enough information in it. They should have a trouble shooting area for problems.


Slow down the engine and pto speed and use a higher gear for faster ground speed. Sounds like centrifical force might be the main problem plus the angle of the rake teeth.

CW


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## Tim/South

I have one of those from when it was made by another company.

My learning curve contained the following:

Gear box not changed over when switching from "rake" to "ted".

Tines not switched from "rake" to "ted".

Frame locked in transport position and not allowed to swivel.

Every problem I ever had with mine was because of one of the things I listed, or a combination of them.

Once you get it sorted I believe it will do a good job.


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## InterLake

This is topic is really interesting. I didn`t know there is such a wide range of haying conditions. I grow mostly grass - alfalfa hay in southern Manitoba (just north of Winnipeg). On this farm a 2 ton per acre yield is heavy crop. If conditions are good I can cut with my 9 foot mower-conditioner making a windrow that my tractors can straddle on Day 1 and make good dry small square bales for horses on Day 3. Of course there are times when it takes longer. Occasionally hay is too dry on the afternoon of Day 2 (that is unsual). I ted with an H&S tedder if I want to speed up the process or get evener drying. Tedding later on Day 1 doesn`t do much. If there is a high yield and or lots of alfalfa, tedding on Day 2 before the top gets too dry is a good idea. I check hay in the evening of Day 2. In the morning of Day 3, I check the dew, the sky and the forecast. If it looks like a reasonably good haying day and the bottom of the windrow was not a lot different from the top, I don`t ted. If the moisture is the bottom is rather high, the windrow is quite compact or the weather is not as good as I would like, I ted first thing that morning.


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