# Ask The Vet: Multi-sire Breeding Program.



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

A very interesting question is posed.....from DTN.

Regards, Mike

https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/livestock/article/2018/11/19/multisire-breeding-programs


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I'd be afraid of fighting.

We occassionally keep a bull calf too long, and it reaches about 800lbs (hard to load, busy with other stuff, etc). Herd bull will fight that calf, and either one can get injured. Scary when one of them comes up lame, and you have to hold your breath till it starts walking normal again.

We have a small operation. And we leave the bull with the cows year round. He's servicing considerably more than 30 head, but they all come into heat at different times. We don't keep the bull separate in order to make for seasonal calving. They calve at different times,, which makes for little drizzly loads to the sale barn 4 here, 6 there, etc. No full uniform sized loads. I guess a guy could separate the bull in order to have them bred at the same time, be a lot better for the bottom dollar. Large uniform lots seem to get a better price.

K'kins wants to start tagging them, to see just when they're bred, and identify other traits over time. I think she's right. She has a better head on her shoulders than I have.

The genetic issues are a big question. You'd have to hope that multiple bulls have some common desirable trait. Seems you could have a bombshell hidden somewhere.

Anyways, there's a lot I still have to learn. These articles are really good food for the ol' noodle. These links are helpful.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

My cousin had two bulls ( he was babysitting his dad’s bull) anyway he felt if more then one cow was in heat at the same time they spent there time fighting over the one cow and ignored the other cows. So he felt the conception rate actually went down. I am no cow expert just remember him complaining his cows where not getting bred.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

This part of the world (central Calif) any bigger ranch ran multiple bulls in the same pasture. Until 40 years ago Hereford was the most popular breed maybe a little more mellow than Angus back then. Today I don't know not much different. When I was a kid there some old guys snark you need 1 Angus or 3 because 2 would just fight all day.

I am not big by standards in this country, but I am more comfortable with 2 bulls than one. Many calve year round here as no cold be real hard on babies. But real hard on cow and calf in summer with heat and dried out grass.

We can green up any time from Oct to March but are always dry by June some time. So fall was calving time for those trying to make the most of the green grass. Well last week I got .60 hundreds inch of rain today there are a few little green dots pocking thru. Hopefully more rain this week,but depending on how cold we are may be in Jan or even Feb before a cow can make living on green grass.

The idea is to have lots of dry grass to keep cows from summer until the rain returns. Virtually all annual grasses and broad leaf plants some of which retain feed valve until they get soaking wet in the first rain. At which time all water soluble vitamins and minerals go back into the ground. Cows will lose condition fast now so at this time $$$$ dictate hay is the thing to feed. Years ago my dad never hardly feed hay, cottonseed,alfalfa meal, ground barley, feed free choice with 25% to 33% salt limit intake out of self feeders that held 3 to 4+ ton. About 20 years ago the price of salt got so high it was time to change back to hay.

It takes as much as 3000 acres to keep 60 to 80 cows mainly because a lot of it is covered by brush generally with a lot of oak trees mixed in. So in a long winded explanation a lot of pasture are 100's of acres. So a wimp of a bull has good chance to run and hid from a bully that will run him off. But for a ton of reasons we work hard at having gentle cattle and bulls generally get along pretty well. They end up having a pecking order and all know there place.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have a neighbor who has a large herd with plenty of bulls. He buys yearling bulls and keeps them for 2-3 years and sells them. Says younger bulls spend less time fighting and more time breeding.
I have also found having bulls of various ages can help cut down on the fighting. Sometimes the older bulls are fighting and than a young bull sneakes in to breed the cow.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Keeping the bulls in a bull pasture together year around is helpful so that when you put them out in the cow pasture they are very familiar with one another. The larger the cow pasture the better it is for getting along and getting out of the way if needed. I used to keep my bulls together and I know if you put them into a very small off season bull pasture you could be asking for trouble......they can get bored too and that can lead to trouble.

Regards, Mike


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

I have 3 bulls in lot because the neighbor bulldozed the fence without asking on the brush patch I keep bulls in. The good is a 6 foot deer fence going in to plant vineyard in what use to be walnut trees, so I was not asked to pay 1/2.

Because of the fence problem bulls ran with the cows till the first calve was born. The bulls are 5,4,and 3 years old and get along very well.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

My uncle runs cows on the Red Desert west of Rawlins Wyoming. He has 15 bulls in his herd, and they winter here in Riverton across the road from us; of course we get the job to feed them. I think on the desert he figures about 30 acres per cow for one month. I think he figures one bull per 20 cows. Even in that small winter pasture we don't have to much problems with the bulls hurting each other. We have had more problems with foul foot than anything else.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Because of the way I rotate my cows, I have at least 60 cows in a herd. If the bulls are older I can get by with just 2. If yearlings I'd run 2 yearlings and maybe a 2 year old. My big group of cows is 120 on a section of pasture. There I run 4 to 5 bulls.

Between Dad and I we usually have 20 to 25 bulls around all year. Only run them with the cows for 60 days, heifers only 30 days. Most of the spring and fall those bulls are in a bull pasture by themselves and tend to get along pretty good. Every once in a while they might fight and tear down a fence, usually in the spring when the cows start cycling after calving.

Bulls can be in a pasture and get along just fine but as soon as you try and chase em to move them somewhere they gotta start fighting. Our Border collie is pretty good to break them up. They really respect a dog.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I have 7 critters and 5 are bulls....1 3 year old and 3 2year olds and one 2 months old... the 3 2 year olds fight non stop nothing serious but they tear up turf like crazy.. the 3 year old is like a pet he is the best critter in the pasture and he will stay around as long as he behaves. The others... their days are numbered!


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