# New holland rollbelt 450



## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

I really want to like this NH baler, but yesterday I pulled out my JD 466 with 20,000 bales run through it, and it makes better lookin bales bales than the NH that's got 800 bales on it. What's the problem?


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm sure I don't know, but maybe pictures would help others help you.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I don't know what creates the problem is but I'll be waiting to read the solution. I agree with other poster a photo is worth a 1000 words.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Well, I ain't much good at posting pics!!! The ends of the bales look rougher than a cob not slick and smooth like the JD. I'll see if I can figure out the picture thing. I know I like to look at them!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You need to talk to your dealer about what changes are suggested by NH for the bale shape sensors.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

bluefarmer said:


> Well, I ain't much good at posting pics!!! The ends of the bales look rougher than a cob not slick and smooth like the JD. I'll see if I can figure out the picture thing. I know I like to look at them!


My NH rollabelt makes weird looking bales as well.....I'm not impressed with much about the machine. It's ok, but that's about all I'll give it is an ok....hopefully it gets better with age.

I did crank tension/compression up to about 2100 and it looks better.....still not great. Sometimes it spits out a beautiful bale, the very next one will look rough with a bulge or rough on the sides....same windrow size, etc.....it does some weird things as well, I've had it not put on enuf net earlier this year....still don't know wth was going on with that. Even after a couple thousand bales, the roller will still catch the net and rip it off a bale.....of course you don't see that while operating so you have no idea, but the next ones won't do it despite having net wrapped around the rollers......with all of the electronics on the baler, one would think that the operator would be alerted when things are askew.....not always the case  at least once a day, maybe twice, the bill hook will not return to the home position.....it does alert the operator when that happens and he will have to cycle the bill hook.....aggravating. The nipple that is welded on the the frame to hold the jack in working position has broken the welds and I no longer can take my jack with me......ironically, the problem is not with the jack, it's the piece of metal that NH used, it wasn't the right size and the Jack has to be twisted onto the nipple since a bit of rust has developed in the Jack, twisting it on one day, the chicken shit "tacks" that they have holding the nipple on broke off of the bottom  so no I have no way to mobile with the Jack, have to carry it in the tractor and throw it out on the side of the field  
Overall I'm not very impressed with this baler, I've owned it for two years and have approx 2500 bales run thru it, just Bermuda.......wish I hadn't put 12k down on it, shoulda let NH tote the note, maybe if I dropped it off and said "fix it" or "forget it" I would get something done.....the biggest problem is with the dealer network in my locale. I needed to buy a piece from this dealer as I haven't bought many items from them in the past few years, being they are NH, Mahindra, mc cormick, woods.....I shoulda bought a woods rotary mower and been done with it......


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The rough sides and maybe the bulge can be caused by the bale shape sensors. Have your dealer check on line for the solution. If there is a large bulge then that is caused by operator error. If the operator does not fill the ends of the bale while baling and then at some point does fill the end, the outer layers of hay as it is being compressed will push the loose hay in the middle of the bale out the side. I see it more on the left side because people will not fill that side. That type of bulge is as old as the round balers.

Net wrapping on the starter roll can be caused by weld splatter or rough welds on the starter roll. I always take a grinder to the rolls to smooth the welds and eliminate the splatters. If you have mud stuck to the roll the net will stick to the mud. If the mud is hardened then there is another place to catch the net. Wet dead hay will also stick to the roll especially with new paint on the roll. Look at the rods that are welded to the starter roll. If there is a gap between the rods and rolls, then stems can get stuck in the gap and catch the net. Take a hammer and tap the rods down. Years ago I took epoxy and spread it across the rear of the rod to roll connection.

The duckbill not returning to the home position is because of the electrical load. Since your baler is two years old it was at a time when NH said you could plug the baler harness into the tractor power plug. It did not take long to find out that the tractor wiring is not capable of supplying the power needed to the move the duckbill especially when the net roll is about done. If you do not have a power cord wired directly to the battery, you will never be satisfied. If your software has not been updated then that needs to be done. The new software will supply more power to the motors before it shuts them down. There is also a heavier duckbill return spring to pull the duckbill back. I have installed both the spring and upgraded the software on some balers and just the software on others. As long as the baler is wired to the battery, the software seems to have corrected the problem, but if there is still a problem then add the heavier spring. Last week I got a call from a customer that got a new baler this year. We wired the tractor directly to the battery and he had no problems until he switched tractors. Even though we gave him another power cord for this tractor he never installed it and instead was using the tractor power plug. I told him to install the power cord to the battery. Never heard back from him. That might have been a case where the heavier spring might have gotten him by.

There is nothing I can say about poor welds. However, my experience with the jacks not fitting the storage bracket is because the jack was either tweaked because it was not removed after hooking up the tractor, or it was tweaked in the storage bracket by the tractor tire hitting the jack when making a sharp turn.

For those wondering how a tweaked jack could fit the front bracket but not the back storage bracket, there is a reason. The front bracket goes over the outside of the jack "nipple" and is not what I would call a tight fit. The back storage bracket is just the opposite. The jack "nipple" fits over the storage bracket. Any deformation of the jack "nipple" will still allow use up front but become next to impossible to install on the back support. I am sure most of you have driven away with a jack down. It pulls the metal around the pin hole. Since the front goes over the top of the jack "nipple" it contains what damage can occur to the outside of the jack "nipple", but it does not contain the deformation to the inside of the jack "nipple". Since the jack "nipple" must go over the rear storage bracket it will no longer slide on because of the deformation. The deformation on this baler could very well have occurred at the dealership or anywhere. Even in the storage position the wheel can hit the jack if you turn extremely sharp. This will distort both the jack and the rear storage bracket.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

mike10 said:


> You need to talk to your dealer about what changes are suggested by NH for the bale shape sensors.


This is exactly what I told the dealer the problem was. He told me the other day that maybe I didn't know how to bale hay. I told him that he may be right but I got a JD 466 with over 20,000 bales and had a 430 before that.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

In a nutshell, the problems you stated are the things that get me aggravated at some dealer networks, be it JD, CAsE, NH, Kubota....doesn't matter the color. They should know those things and have let me known about them, I've had the baler back to them on two occasions, of course as you know it's very hard to duplicate a problem that happens .05% of the time in the shop and I understand that, this baler has definitely gotten better with the number of bales run thru it but my buddy rarely has a problem with his net wrap tearing (469) I can't seem to leave a field without 1 or 2 out of 50-60 having torn right in the middle......idk what the heck causes it, piece of stem, idk, but it hardly ever happens that we exit a field and all of the bales are intact. One would think 2k bales is a plenty to break-in but perhaps it's not.

I agree on the Jack, I've seen it done and done it....not the case here. The problem is the Jack is very rough on the inside of the tube....it appears to never had paint applied and it's very rough and rusted. When we first purchased it, we noted that it was very difficult to put on the tube, as time went on, it became harder and harder up until you couldn't push it on, you had to push and screw it on to get the locking hole to line up, it was very aggravating....just this year, when I went to "screw" the Jack on, the bottom weld broke on the baler tube, upon closer inspection, the tube appears to be tacked on at the top and bottom rather than a full weld, another cost saving measure I'm sure but if not for the poor quality jack, this probably would be a moot point. So in reality, the Jack manufacture should shoulder most of the blame for this problem, but I bought a NH baler and I do expect quality, be it the Jack or the baler.....
If we had a dealer like you guys I'd probably have a boatload of Blue and Red, but service is paramount in this business and it's hard to put a price on it, although the JD dealer doesn't have too hard of a time doing it  
I'll check on the updates and run the wire to the battery, I suspected that could be a problem when I read an earlier post and the voltage dropped to 10v on a similar servo.....I don't think the 18awg wiring harness in the tractors can handle that kind of amperage over that much distance.....that may be the cure-all for most of my problems with the net actuator. 
Thanks again.....


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

bluefarmer, tell your dealer to do an Assist search, in the model field he should type 450 and in the description field he should type bale shape. After selecting the 450 baler the first item to come up at the top of the list is about the bale shape sensors causing rough sides on the bale.

somedevildawg, it does not matter how good the equipment is if you do not have support. Going direct to the battery will elimanate 99% of your problem with the duckbill. The software upgrade should give you the final 1%. Plus you can always add the heavier spring if needed. So far, I have not seen the need for the heavier spring in our situation.

Use of the baler will not elimanate the weld splatters or flatten the rods against the roll. Believe me, there are weld splatters on that roll. It will only take a few minutes to grind away the splatter and knock the rods down against the roll. On the BR balers, NH recommended increasing the dwell time of the duckbill in the insert position to help. I can not say if it helped or not, but you can increase the dwell time on your baler also.

The jack issue has me puzzeled though. It should not be that difficult to install it on the bracket. It is possible that the mount itself was not round when it was welded to the tongue. The balers are shipped with the jacks in the storage position so I would think the dealer should have noticed if something was amiss with the jack. Regardless they should have taken care of it for you if it was like that from new.

Poor welds are a pain in the butt. There can be no excuse for it but it does happen.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

if you make your own power harness, use 10 ga wire with a 30 circuit breaker or fuse at the power source, battery. There are also two fuses in the harness which you are presently using, a 5A and a 25A. If you do the software upgrade you should replace the 25A fuse with a 30A fuse.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Guess if I ever get a new baler, it won't be a New Holland... sounds like their quality SUCKS...

Bad welds, poor design, poor quality control. No thanks... money's too tight to put up with that crap on new machinery...

Later!  OL J R


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Luke, you need to realize this was a new product and there are always learning curves when something new comes along. You can do all the preparation you want to but when it comes time to hit the field the learning is for real and you find out how unprepared you are. It is not only the dealer who experiences this but the factory. The mfg changes build procedures on a new model and sometimes things fall through the cracks. The quality control is only as good as the person inspecting the parts. Often times the parts meet the specs but until the product is out in the real world do you really know if the specs are adequate. Early adopters of new technology will experience more difficulty than those that come after, that is why the dealer support is critical.

All companies experience the same situation. While much of the baler is similar to the BR balers, the wrapping and tying system are completely different. Ask your JD buddies how the introduction of the JD rotor combine went.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mike10

Doesn't NH field test equipment several yrs before marketing a new piece of equipment? Weld splatters or rod not lying flat against mating surface sounds like "poor quality control" not learning curve to me. BTW I don't have any JD buddies similar to Luke!

Jim


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

There are none that are 100% in quality control....some are better than others....and they all have had nightmare products.

Regards, Mike


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## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

My pulse rate still rises when I think of some of the nightmares we've been through. Problems keep us humble! I wish the engineers would shoulder their part of the blame in some of the issues. It could then be a learning experience and lead to better equipment.


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## timberjackrob (Feb 16, 2015)

my neighbor bought bought a new 450 silage special last year it makes a great looking roll not had any problems with it.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim, I agree it could be better, but I am also not naive enough to think it is limited to NH. All companies have their PIP's and screwups. For the vast majority of owners the roll in question would not give a problem but less face it, 100% of the parts are not check 100%. I like to avoid problems in the field, so I check each one before it leaves, is it necessary, no, but I do not have the time to babysit a machine if it does become a problem. I will say, the new balers, if setup properly have less issues than the BR's but it is still a machine. The power source was the biggest issue we have run into.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mike10 said:


> Luke, you need to realize this was a new product and there are always learning curves when something new comes along. You can do all the preparation you want to but when it comes time to hit the field the learning is for real and you find out how unprepared you are. It is not only the dealer who experiences this but the factory. The mfg changes build procedures on a new model and sometimes things fall through the cracks. The quality control is only as good as the person inspecting the parts. Often times the parts meet the specs but until the product is out in the real world do you really know if the specs are adequate. Early adopters of new technology will experience more difficulty than those that come after, that is why the dealer support is critical.
> 
> All companies experience the same situation. While much of the baler is similar to the BR balers, the wrapping and tying system are completely different. Ask your JD buddies how the introduction of the JD rotor combine went.


Gotta agree with Mike on this one, ALL companies could have real world problems, that might only get caught in the field.

In the past I worked in the boating industry, we would 'field' test boats at our R&D, sometimes for several years. But, until real life stuff happens, you never know.

One year we had a new hull design, worked beautiful at R&D (which was located in Florida), I personal was out on some of the testing / trial runs. We took the first one that we built in the plant out for more testing on the Great Lakes (the small one Lake St. Clair). The hull design was a disaster to say the least; only five boats were built, with that hull design. The interior structures were re-engineered and strengthen. Seems waves in the Ocean are 75 to 150 feet apart, when you 'bounce' a boat off a Great Lake waves that might only be 20 foot apart, the shock seems to be a little more 'intense', I would say (and we sure shook up some R&D guys ). The first five that were manufactured were strengthen inside, but they were sold to southern dealers, where the chance of every being on the Great Lakes was slim. The hull was re-designed (adding area, changing dimensions).

Sometimes we were asked why we would take a boat out into the Great Lakes, with a thunderstorm, potential tornado coming in. The answer was simple, in the summer, storms pop up quickly and can be violent on the Great Lakes (Lake St. Clair, is like a saucer, shallow, it is amazing how rough it can get on a lake about 25 miles in diameter. Lake Superior, takes 730 foot freighters down, like the Edmond Fitzgerald). If you were the owner of a boat, had your family out enjoying a nice summer day and a storm quick came up, you would 'put the hammer' down and head to shore (safety), to protect your family first. Then later you would look at your boat for damage. Hence, we would take a new boat out and do a lot of our testing in poor weather conditions.

Disclaimer: these type of issues became more so, AFTER we (the company I started with), sold out to a much bigger corporation and we were then ran by 'bean counters'. The boat I used as an example was built backwards in my eyes. Bean counters, said, I want a boat to sell for this much, with this much profit, therefore we had a 'limit' to how much materials and labor hours to build the boat. Previously, we would design, maybe over build, figure out much labor hours, then price accordingly to the market, what was left was profit.

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mike10 said:


> Jim, I agree it could be better, but I am also not naive enough to think it is limited to NH. All companies have their PIP's and screwups.


I think weld spatter falls under lack of quality control not what a PIP was designed for. Yes I've performed my fair share of John Deere PIP's & witnessed some GREEN screwups back in the 70's-80's.. I also understand R&D on a hay equipment in a smooth Alfalfa field vs baling down South in a rough coastal field is totally.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I think I have left the impression that the weld splatter is all over the roll, which it is not. All it takes is one splatter ball to catch the net. I doubt that even Deere has a person inspecting every part for one weld spatter ball. As I said earlier, I try to avoid problems by catching any potential ass biters before they ever reach the field.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

:huh: I owned several NEW JD balers that steel starter roll didn't grab surface wrap caused by welding splatters so I guess I'm among the LUCKY few green rd baler owners. I'm raising a WHITE FLAG???????? I done similar to baked tator on this thread as in stick me with a fork.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim, you beat me to the punch, I was going to suggest we quit beating this dead horse. I'm glad you and your fellow green owners do not have to deal with net wrapping on the starter roll and I hope you are just as glad for us, the red and yellow fans, that we do not have to deal with net wrapping around the top roll, that is the roll is'nt it, that the green balers wrap. SORRY could not stop myself. Time to move on to the next topic.

Maybe we should try arm wrestling. I can't get into a pissing contest any more because with age comes factors that would make me a loser.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I may get flamed for saying this, but after being the principal operator and sole repairman on a NH D1000 baler and several BR round balers, I have come to the opinion that NH tends to have superior overall design ideas than their competition, but they short themselves in the execution of their concepts and manufacturing of their products.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

mike10 said:


> bluefarmer, tell your dealer to do an Assist search, in the model field he should type 450 and in the description field he should type bale shape. After selecting the 450 baler the first item to come up at the top of the list is about the bale shape sensors causing rough sides on the bale.


Thanks mike! I called the parts man, he looked it up and said there was 3 pages he would print them off for me! He just glanced at some of it said something about putting a 1/2 inch nut some where for a spacer to take some of the spring tension off, it does make sense. I'll be sure and update the results.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> I may get flamed for saying this, but after being the principal operator and sole repairman on a NH D1000 baler and several BR round balers, I have come to the opinion that NH tends to have superior overall design ideas than their competition, but they short themselves in the execution of their concepts and manufacturing of their products.


My Dad has worked as a mechanical engineer for just about 40 years now. Like he says the design is only as good as the guy building it. Infact next week himself and a team of guys are going out of country to inspect a shop to see if they are up to snuff to build the next project he is working on.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> I may get flamed for saying this, but after being the principal operator and sole repairman on a NH D1000 baler and several BR round balers, I have come to the opinion that NH tends to have superior overall design ideas than their competition, but they short themselves in the execution of their concepts and manufacturing of their products.


I would not doubt that one bit Gear.....I don't think anyone really builds a sound product like they did in the 70's-90's generally speaking.

I think the design is probably very good for the major manufacturers....it seems the ground is lost in the build when they are trying to save dollars here and there for stockholder profitability.

I still have a late 70's NH haybine....that thing has been practically bomb proof....my 55 series JD tractors also have been exceptional compared to later models.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

On a side note, when I first got the NH haybine it kept wrapping hay on the rollers and it turned out the reel belt was not quite tight as it should have been and it made it just a little out of time......it was a easy fix, but I called up to NH, PA and talked to the folks there.....they were great and even told me some things to watch for in the future....they really cared back then....but now everything(everyone) is operated with stockholders in mind and cutting every corner that can be cut.

Regards, Mike


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mike10 said:


> Jim, you beat me to the punch, I was going to suggest we quit beating this dead horse. I'm glad you and your fellow green owners do not have to deal with net wrapping on the starter roll and I hope you are just as glad for us, the red and yellow fans, that we do not have to deal with net wrapping around the top roll, that is the roll is'nt it, that the green balers wrap. SORRY could not stop myself. Time to move on to the next topic.


Mike

Surely you know what happens when one continues to stir a bucket of POOP.!!!!!!!!! It continues to STINK only WORSE!!! :lol:

Yes on JD rd baler net that gets snagged by faulty splice of a divot(snag) in belt usually ends up on top roller Which roller on a NH rd baler does net wrap around when it fails to make the trip around the bale ??????

Jim  :huh:


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The only roll the net will catch on is the starter roll and then it is usually only a section about 10" wide but no matter how much or how little it still looks like crap. You will find some net strings around other rolls but nothing that takes the net off the bale. I am not saying it can't wrap on other rolls but I have not seen it or heard of it. Lacing condition does not seem to affect the net but that may be because of using the clipper lacings. I have seen some pretty bad lacing conditions and it did not affect the net. I can see where the lacings could be a problem if the tractor does not have the hyd flow to raise the tailgate fast enough, but if it happens it is not very often.

What is confusing to me when I read the posts about the JD balers taking all the net off and wrapping it on a roll is how does it happen. I am sure none of the rolls contanct the bale so how does it remove so much of the net?

If any man made product and in particular round balers were perfect there would be no need for me or you to answer questions, then what would we do?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My theory on JD rd baler is if ragged lacing or divot in belt reaches roller at bottom of tailgate at the exact moment the leading edge of netwrap to be applied reaches this same area then netwrap can get caught on this fault and carry netwrap away from bale in chamber. IMHO the reason most of the time the net wraps at top large roller is because of the 180° turn that the belts make(note roller encicled in red). I know my baler hasn't sent hay to top roller since I installed new belts. It never wrapped top roller very often. Several yrs back divots in belts caused by rocks being pressed into belts between a lower roller & starter roll caused this problem. Then JD decreased the diameter of the starter roll and that almost eliminated the rock caused divots.

OK I finished stirring the BUCKET!!!!!!!!! :lol:


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

mike10 said:


> Luke, you need to realize this was a new product and there are always learning curves when something new comes along. You can do all the preparation you want to but when it comes time to hit the field the learning is for real and you find out how unprepared you are. It is not only the dealer who experiences this but the factory. The mfg changes build procedures on a new model and sometimes things fall through the cracks. The quality control is only as good as the person inspecting the parts. Often times the parts meet the specs but until the product is out in the real world do you really know if the specs are adequate. Early adopters of new technology will experience more difficulty than those that come after, that is why the dealer support is critical.
> 
> All companies experience the same situation. While much of the baler is similar to the BR balers, the wrapping and tying system are completely different. Ask your JD buddies how the introduction of the JD rotor combine went.


Yeah, I hear ya, but that's where FIELD TESTING comes in... Run those suckers to oblivion in the field with large custom guys that wear them out in a season running 24/7 til they're done, at the prototype stage... THEN, once you've got the bugs out, turn them loose for sale to the 'general public'. IMHO that's the RIGHT way to do it.

Yeah, I've heard plenty of horror stories about the 'Stolen Technology System' combines when they first came out... seems they've cheapened up on the metal in the new combines quite a bit from what I've heard... augers worn thin as razor blades and troughs worn through WAY too soon... etc. etc. etc...

Just typical of stuff built now. We've got stuff on this farm still running strong that's way older than I am, and it's built a h3ll of a lot better than more modern stuff... methinks you won't be seeing any S680's running in threshing shows 50 years from now... they'll all be in the scrap heap LONG ago by that point... Same goes for pretty much ALL new equipment from what I've seen...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Mike10
> 
> Doesn't NH field test equipment several yrs before marketing a new piece of equipment? Weld splatters or rod not lying flat against mating surface sounds like "poor quality control" not learning curve to me. BTW I don't have any JD buddies similar to Luke!
> 
> Jim


Not sure where these JD buddies are, exactly... LOL Betty's cousins DO like their 535 Deere baler... and after the stuff I've read on here about NH round balers and Vermeer round balers, I think when I eventually get a newer baler (newer than the early 80's anyway) it'll be some shade of green...

Later! OL J R


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I have said the same thing about field testing this equipment before bringing it to market. The reality is the technology is changing so fast and the DEMANDS of the end buyer for bigger and better are far greater than years ago. By the time you do the type of field testing you and I would like to see done the product would aready be outdated.

I do not like it, but it is what it is. I'll make a predition about the future of the current equipment. The old Ford 8N will still be running in 50 years but I doubt many of the current tractors will be. If I were in the market for a high horsepower tractor or new combine I would not buy it. I would lease it and get rid of it before the warranty was out. The future repair bills for this stuff is going to be out of this world but only if the mfg is still supporting it.

I can make the computer controlled round balers work without the computer but you will not make a computer controlled tractor move without a computer with any functionality. You might get the tractor to move but you better have on a seat belt and crash helmet for without the computer controlling the pulse width modulating solenoids you are in for a wild ride.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Mike 10, thanks for the advice it worked!! I just wish that I had done it earlier in the year. Don't use NH template, holes are off!!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Glad it all worked out.


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## Speedrower220 (Feb 17, 2017)

I have a 560 roll belt Specialty crop and love it. Makes consistent bales all day long. Took me a couple hundred bales to get the pressure just right. But now I can make a solid bale with a solid core and it looks great. Perfect spirals all through the bale starting at the very center. Play around with the core size and pressures of the core and outside. What monitor are you running.


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