# Grass Haylage and Propionic Acid?



## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

I have a question.... Thinking that it may have already been discussed on here I've been lost in a rabbit trail of threads so I'm doing a separate thread to get to the point.

I made 700 4x4 round "marshmallow" bales of mixed grasses last season.

I observed that the bales made early in the season when the weather was generally cool and dry did their normal cook and got that strong saurkraut smell in the normal manner. When I opened these bales to feed them this winter they where in good condition inside the bags with very little mold except where the plastic had been punctured by some stubble.

I observed that the bales made late in the season when the weather was again generally cool but wetter didn't cook as well and when I opened them to feed this winter found a large percentage looked good on the exterior grass but inside 4 inches and into the core where substantially powdery moldy. Even rotten.

I'm wondering if I can use propionic acid on a Haylage bale as I roll the grass up, just like some folks do on bales intended to be dry round bales. Will this prevent the mold and still allow the cook (ensiling) to occur?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

If the plastic fails by way of a hole the baleage will rot . Treat the hay with a inexpensive bacteria at the baler and focus on 6 layers of plastic coverage . That is if you are using a wrapper . 4x4 bales are tricky on an individual wrapper the plastic roll must be low enough or close to the table so that you are not stretching to high on the bale


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I would also say forget the preservative and look at an innoculant instead. I would also think the moisture was too low for good ensiling if you saw white mold.


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

Endrow and Gearclash, Thanks for responding.

I'm not too concerned witht the damaged to the exterior of the bales caused by punctures, birds or the D*** elk. Those bales still fed ok to my steers.

The bales with the 80% of the interior containing white dusty mold were a total loss. Unpalatable.

I'd assumed that 3rd cutting grass done in foggy conditions would have had a high enough moisture content but maybe not. It could be that the stem moisture was much lower than normal....we did have a droughty summer here. Which is the theory that I was working on when I asked if a preservative like Propionic acid or one of the other brands being discussed in other threads might help me. IF my moisture content was in fact too low then the grass was more like that of a dry round which would benefit from a preservative.

I'm not clear on the difference between a preservative and Innoculant?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> I'm not clear on the difference between a preservative and Innoculant?


They are opposites. A preservative will inhibit microbial growth, as would happen in dry hay that is baled too wet. An innoculant contains the components that will start or promote microbial activity, which is what you want with silage.

Was there dead dry hay in your bales? It seem dead "junk" tends to white mold sooner?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Just to add the inoculant uses up the oxygen in fermenting process and mold needs oxygen to grow.


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## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

Most any problem with wrapping hay, no matter the moisture, is the result of not enough wrap and/or poor quality wrap. There are no reasons at all to use prop acid in a wrapped bale. That's not the correct use of it. An innocculant with an oxygen scavenger can be a good choice when harvesting outside of the ideal range of moisture for baleage (45-55%). Your moldy bales had to have a steady supply of oxygen to get that way.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

We do use prop on wrapped hay that is low moisture %35 or lower and have had good results. At the lower moistures not sure we are getting much fermentation. I would agree that the most important things are quality wrap, enough layers of wrap, and no holes. If oxygen is keep out it will not mold.


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

I appreciate each of your contributions above. Now I'm second guessing what I thought I knew.

Let me start with the concept of "6 wraps" of plastic. I use a McHale tow behind wrapper. I have it set to do 18 revolutions. The wrap completely covers the bale in 6 1/2 revolutions with a half sheet overlap on each revolution. So my thinking was that after 18 revolutions I have essentially got 6 layers of plastic. That gives me about 23 bales per roll of wrap. Is this meeting with your understanding of what 6 wraps is? (Endrow, Bob M)

Good Quality wrap? I found myself using different brands of wrap last year. I didn't keep track of which bales were wrapped by which. I was dismayed to find wrap out of stock so often at several dealers. At the end of the season I bought everything I could find anywhere out of state and had it shipped, so I'll be using a pallet of left over from last season this year...it's Sunwrap or something like that. Opinions of preference?

It sounds like my failure to stay ontop of the damage to the bales was a key part of the problem. I've taken steps this year already to harrass and repel the elk. I'll stay ontop of that and I'll transport the bales closer to the barns as opposed to stacking them around the perimiter of the ranch.... It's just so darn far to drive so many times.

I have the ability to inject liquid products into the baler as I bale with a homemade system. Recommendation of Innoculant?


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

You have me very curious and I hope you don't mind my questions. How large of round bale do you make and what is your cost to wrap them? How do you move, store and feed them? I have never been around them. Thanks in advance. Mel


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Sounds like the moisture was too high along with being too cool maybe?


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

Waterway64 said:


> You have me very curious and I hope you don't mind my questions. How large of round bale do you make and what is your cost to wrap them? How do you move, store and feed them? I have never been around them. Thanks in advance. Mel


Hi Mel,

Like I stated in my very first post the round bales are 4ft by 4ft.... I took a flat bed truck load across a truck scale to average their weight and that worked out to 1205 lbs. I have the ability to adjust the density of the grass bale with hydraulic tensioners on my Vermeer baler. So, I could make them weigh different amounts by adjusting that. But I like them to be firm and solid.

Those Haylage film wrap rolls cost me $75-$90 a roll depending on whether they were on sale or retail priced. So if you figure I was able to wrap 23 bales with one roll then the cost of wrap per bale is price divided by 23 or anywhere from $3.26 - $3.91 p/bale just for the plastic.

My practice has been to move them as little as possible because they are heavy, requiring a large tractor with a squeeze attachment.... I priced different sqeeze models and decided to make my own. The least expensive retail unit I could find was about $4K. I built one for less than $1K including valuing my labor. I bought a 24ft flat bed GMC truck at auction for moving loads of rounds across the property to various stacking positions. The tractor with the squeeze loads them on and unloads them. Some bales simply got accumulated in convenient locations near road access points.

There are all kinds of methods of feeding them. Sometimes I just set one in a paddock after cutting wrap and twines off and let the steers go at it. Sometimes I drop one in a round bale feeder. Sometimes I set one on ground that seems to need more litter material. Sometimes I unwrap one by hand into feed troughs in the barns...actually, I've done hundreds that way in the wintertime when all of the animals are inside on cement because the ground is too wet and soggy outside. I dream of the day that I can get my hands on a bale shredder like the QuadX or Teagle 3pt models to do that chore.

I began to make Haylage bales because I have lots of grass ready to harvest in the spring...like right now, but the weather and ground conditions aren't conducive to dry Hay. So I make Haylage bales until the weather allows dry bales. By the time 98% of the other hay guys around here are making bales in July I'm doing my Second cutting which is smokin' nice square bales that I sell for twice or three times as much as the other guys' First cuttings command. I fertilize and irrigate between cuttings.Then, I'm able to take squares of Third cutting in late August and Sept until the weather flips and I go back to taking Haylage until the ground is too soft to drive on....last season I stopped Nov 14th.


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

Bgriffin856 said:


> Sounds like the moisture was too high along with being too cool maybe?


BG, Now you are just confusing the issue. 

I'm pretty sure the bales weren't too wet. I send samples of all my bales to Dairy One for testing and the results for these bales that molded came back 45% dry matter.

You have a point that the temperature outside was cool. But I make bales in late April and all of May with the same exterior temperatures. And they turned out great.

So, I'm leaning toward the others' analysis that the damage to the wrap caused by the animals and birds was a bigger problem than I gave it credit for. The bales that I made earlier in the season were fed first and were exposed to much less damage.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

MFMan said:


> I appreciate each of your contributions above. Now I'm second guessing what I thought I knew.
> 
> Let me start with the concept of "6 wraps" of plastic. I use a McHale tow behind wrapper. I have it set to do 18 revolutions. The wrap completely covers the bale in 6 1/2 revolutions with a half sheet overlap on each revolution. So my thinking was that after 18 revolutions I have essentially got 6 layers of plastic. That gives me about 23 bales per roll of wrap. Is this meeting with your understanding of what 6 wraps is? (Endrow, Bob M)
> 
> ...


Not sure,, your saying at 6.5 turns the green disappears and the bale is covered. but if the first pass an last pass have just meet I might go one more turn to be sure the entire bale has 2 layers completely and then I would agree multiply by 3 and go 21 turns


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

endrow said:


> Not sure,, your saying at 6.5 turns the green disappears and the bale is covered. but if the first pass an last pass have just meet I might go one more turn to be sure the entire bale has 2 layers completely and then I would agree multiply by 3 and go 21 turns


Endrow,

You have a really good point.

I remember that I used to wrap 21 revolutions but last season in a fit of cheapness I cut it back.... As I calculated for Mel above the darn wrap cost is a serious expense and it was weighing on me.

I'll put it back to 21. It's obvious that lost/molded bales quickly wipe out the pennies I saved on a couple of revolutions of wrap material.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks again for the information! I chop and bag haylage and silage but have never put up baylage. Two friends of mine in the 90s used Agbag tubs bage to produce baylage and really liked the product. I don't know how the cost or final product would compare. Mel


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

We wrap 3x3x5.5 square bales and we get about 20 bales per roll of wrap. We also have a McHale wrapper and ours is set somewhere between 20 and 24 revolutions.


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## dieselknudt (Apr 8, 2014)

It sounds like the question is pretty well answered but thought that I would give my .02 anyway!

Like what was stated above the molding has to be due to air getting into the bale during the fermentation process. If any holes are made after that you will only get a small amount of spoilage.

Your wrap could have a lot to do with it.

If you changed brands did you stay with the same thickness? If you went from a 1.5 mil to 1 mil you just lost 1/3 of your plastic if you did not change the number of wraps.

I have also seen poor plastic that was not tacky enough and allows air into the bale.

Did the plastic come off the bale in one big sheet or was it separating into layers?

As far as how much to use, I always make sure that the bale is solid white and you cannot see any green through the plastic, and it seems to keep well.


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## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

One last point, there is a temperature difference between your spring and fall bales.....the difference is once they are baled. Your fall bales are going into winter and are going to stay colder which will slow down the fermentation process which will increase the time your bales can be attacked by rodents and let in more oxygen to mold.


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## robert23239 (May 10, 2009)

Hello all,

My 2 cents , I wrapped my hay last year and most of the wrap would cut off like a cast. those bales looked good . The bales that didnt and the plastic was a little more flexible, those bales had some mold on them. I try not to move them after wrapped and set them on end.


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## MFMan (Jul 2, 2013)

Again, I want to thank each of you for taking time to think about my issues and make these really useful comments.

Deiselknudt, I had to wait to respond to you until after I'd been in the tractor shed to verify the mil thinckness of the wrap that I have on hand. It's 25microns or 1 mil. Now I'm wondering if I need to make an adjustment to the number of wraps if this is thinner than desirable material? Both you and Robert23 make a good case for observing whether the plastic has obscured the green color of the grass as an indication of acceptable wrap thickness. ( I always stack on the flat ends.)

Gawas makes an interesting observation about the seasonal difference in temperature in the six week period after wrapping when the curing is supposed to take place. In the Spring everyday is relatively nicer and warmer headed into summer. In the fall everyday is relatively worse headed into winter. I suppose colder weather would have an affect on the curing process.

Now that I think about it.... I was feeding some bales in the heart of the winter that the elk had torn the wrap by stabbing at the bales with their antler racks. I was marveling at what good condition the grass was in. Well, it was freezing outside..... Of course the grass looked good because it was being preserved by the cold. But, in February when things started to thaw out then I started to find badly damaged grass inside those damaged bales.

So, I'm going to purpose to wrap with more wrap and Stack in positions that I can protect from the Elk And walk the stacks with patch tape more often.


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## John Anderson (Apr 12, 2010)

MFMan -

Thought i'd throw out some comments and thoughts.

There has been lots of great comments on plastic and wrapping, which is the 2nd most critical management factor that you control. The first being proper moisture. If you are wanting to make good "baleage" and get good fermentation, you'll want the moisture to be about 55-60%.

Regarding wrapping, as other point out wrapping w/ at least 5 layers is important. And the longer it will sit the more layers needed (up to 9 layers). Also it's important to wrap them immediately after baling. Waiting over 6 hrs post-baling is no good. There was some good research, i believe out of UW-WIsconsin, that looked at number of layers and time delay in wrapping on the overall forage quality.

On the question you asked on prop acid. As others noted, if you're making baleage, you don't want to use prop acid. Rather you're trying to have these bales ferment as fast and efficiently as they can. And this can be greatly influenced (improved) by using a bacterial inoculant. However, i'd have to respectfully disagree with the comment made about using "some cheap bacterial product". There is a huge difference between product on the market. Some have absolutely NO data to show they actual work. So, if you're simply going to buy the cheapest product you can find (and they are as cheap as $0.35/ton, save the money and don't use anything because it's likely that cheap product will provide NO benefit!!

Rather, use a bacterial inoculant from a reputable company. And one that has independent, published data supporting it's claims. And also work with a company that stands behind their product. I'd think you can find this type of liquid applied product for a cost of about $0.75-$1.00 per treated ton.

You noted you have a liquid system on your baler currently. And this can work great for applying bacterial inoculants. Just be sure that if you've had acid in the system previously, that you wash and flush the system really well as the acid will kill any bacterial inoculant you would mix with it.

Also, when you are applying this bacterial inoculant solution i'd recommend that you apply it at 1/2 gallon (2qts/ton) and apply through 2 or 3 nozzles to give you the greatest coverage. As bacteria don't move through the bale and the hay does not get mixed up once made (where is silage there is a lot of mixing that occurs after application).

Also keep in mind that all bacterial inoculants have a "tank life" once mixed up. And generally will only be "alive" for 1, maybe 2 days. Its mostly temperature dependent.

Bacterial inoculants are a great way to drive fermentation, retain nutrients, reduce dry matter loss and in return improve animal performance when fed back to the cattle.

But again, choose a product that have the data to support it..... there are a lot of "snake oils" out there in this market!

I hope all this might be of help.

John Anderson


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