# 14K Trailer axle?



## JMT

I am shopping for a used flatbed trailer. Found an ad for a 45' flatbed with some kind of steel rack previously used for hauling trash cans. After contacting the owner I learned that 45' was the total length of the trailer and that the deck was 35' long.

The owner claims that the trailer has 2 14000# single wheel axles I


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## JMT

Sorry, I have taken out my contact lenses and I cannot hardly see good enough to type and I accidently posted before I was done.

Anyway, I have never heard of a 14000# single wheel axle and figured the owner to be full of bull.

But I thought I would check to see if anyone on here has.

If there is such a thing as 14000# single wheel axles do you think that a loaded 35' trailer would have too heavy of a "footprint" in a hayfield?

Thanks.


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## Lostin55

Around "here" I have never heard of single wheel 14K axles. I have seen 10K singles and 12K duals. More common is 7K singles. All of this is tandem axle of course.


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## Bags

The owner may have replaced dual tires and rims with super singles.


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## rjmoses

You got my curiosity up! What brand/model is he talking about?

I had never thought about bigger axle sizes, so I went looking.

I found one trailer manufacturer that makes a trailer with two 15,000# axles, the Big Tex 3XGN Super Duty Tandem Dual Axle Gooseneck Trailer.

Then there's the http://www.centrevilletrailer.com/trailerDetails.cfm?modelID=40 with two 25,000# axles.

But, just a guess, because he said single tire, and the number is 14,000#, I'd bet he's talking two 7,000# axles. There should be a plate stamped on the trailer with GVWR, etc. that would give more info.

Ralph


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## swmnhay

JMT said:


> Sorry, I have taken out my contact lenses and I cannot hardly see good enough to type and I accidently posted before I was done.
> 
> Anyway, I have never heard of a 14000# single wheel axle and figured the owner to be full of bull.
> 
> But I thought I would check to see if anyone on here has.
> 
> If there is such a thing as 14000# single wheel axles do you think that a loaded 35' trailer would have too heavy of a "footprint" in a hayfield?
> 
> Thanks.


Single wheel trailers cut in a lot more then duals in our soil.Even a tri axe trailer will leave a lot deaper ruts then duals.

Another limiting factor is the load rateing for the tires,you should be able to see it on the side of the tire.


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## MT hayer

There is more to the picture here. Is it a goose neck? Is it a step deck trailer for a truck?


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## JMT

Trailer is a gooseneck. Tires and wheels look like standard 16" but that is a complete guess because the pictures are not great. The owner is claiming that the axles are 14000#s each and that they are singles not duals. "4 wheels not 8". Owner said he hauled loads of 20K and that the frame and axles would handle a load of hay fine.

I agree the wheel and tire load ratings would need to be larger than standard wheel and load range E tires.

I am not looking to buy this trailer anymore because I think single wheel tandems will cut to much rut in the hayfield, but I was just curious if there were single wheel axles rated that heavy.

I found the add on craigslist St. Louis.

stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/4361224561.html Sorry I could not figure out how to link the site in.


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## rajela

Unless your cutting or moving hay on an extremely wet field you shouldn't be cutting any ruts with a single wheel trailer, truck, tractor or anything else.


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## MT hayer

It is possible. it could have been a hot shot trailer at one time. They just need length for one piece of pipe. I would bet it has two 7k axles for the total of 14k. I would certainly look at the frame and axles before I wrote a check, for bends, welding and tire wear! See if there is a place you could add a third axle?

it should work fine for hay, just don't load it like a train! I agree with rajela, you shouldn't leave tracks, if loaded accordingly. If the ground is that soft, your ground to set hay on may be to wet to stack on any way, unless you go to a shed.

They do make a 17.5 tire that goes on a eight hole wheel. You see them on bigger stock trailers and goose neck flatbed, trencher trailers. They have a solid disc in the rim, instead of a stamped center. You see them on 8k and 10k axles as singles. I think they are rated at 4800 lbs a piece? Some where around that. I like the singles because there is less wind drag on the road, and they pull easier in snow, just my feeling here. I have used both.


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## MT hayer

Found the trailers. Yes I would say they are sixteen inch tires. I would bet they are 7k axles too. They look like good frames. I don't know what you want, but there is a lot of iron in the rack that a guy could use else where. Yes you could overload it easy!

I would have to look but it does look as though a couple of them have bent axles, causing tire wear. I would recommend adding a third axle or just replace those two with three 8k axles. You would have a lot of trailer for the money. Go for a two for one deal! Buy two of them, cut one off and put a tail on it for equipment, save one for hay? Are you a fabricator? Price a new three axle that length, let us know.....

There is a tiltdeck trailer in the same place. Goose neck with two 10k axles with 17.5 single tires. It looks well made. It is 29 feet of deck, 20' is tilt. I would venture to bet you can use 22' of deck or so, over that and it will take too much weight off the hitch. No ramps though!


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## swmnhay

rajela said:


> Unless your cutting or moving hay on an extremely wet field you shouldn't be cutting any ruts with a single wheel trailer, truck, tractor or anything else.


This is another here there thing.it doesn't have to be extremely wet HERE to make ruts deep enough to do crown damage to alfalfa.Soils are different all over.


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## RockmartGA

If those are two 7k axles, then you also have to consider the tare weight of the trailer. I would venture to say those trailers probably weigh about 5000 pounds. If the owner said he fed them a steady diet of 20,000 pound payloads, then whoever buys them really needs to look at the axles and springs.


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## urednecku

Doesn't have to be too wet here, either. The tractor or truck will go over without any ruts, but by the time they load 150 - 200 bales of 50 - 60 pound hay in a 2 axle single wheel aluminum gooseneck stock trailer I have ruts over the field. Deeper ones if they need the hay before it's dry & I'm baling with only couple days drying. (20+%)


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## rajela

You may have some tire tracks or marks but I really don't think you and me are talking the same thing when you say ruts.


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## swmnhay

rajela said:


> You may have some tire tracks or marks but I really don't think you and me are talking the same thing when you say ruts.


Probably not but the point is tandem duals will carry a lot better the triple singles by far in soft soil.


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## urednecku

rajela said:


> You may have some tire tracks or marks but I really don't think you and me are talking the same thing when you say ruts.


That's possible. I'm calling that area where the tire leaves a strip from one area to another over about 1-1/2 deep, or deeper, a rut. Especially when it stays there until I pull a heavy roller over it and that only 85% or so fills it in.


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## rajela

swmnhay said:


> Probably not but the point is tandem duals will carry a lot better the triple singles by far in soft soil.


Tandem duals are designed to carry more weight which is spread out over more tires. Load 8 tires with the same load per tire as you do 4 and your going to get the same rut. I have a dual tandem axle trailer not because it will leave less rut but because it will haul more load. I have a single tire trailer for the lite stuff. Now don't get me wrong more people are going to over load the single tire trailer than they would a dual tire trailer but most people never use a tandem dual trailer to it's full potential and a single tire trailer with 7.000# axle will haul all they will ever haul.


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## rajela

urednecku said:


> That's possible. I'm calling that area where the tire leaves a strip from one area to another over about 1-1/2 deep, or deeper, a rut. Especially when it stays there until I pull a heavy roller over it and that only 85% or so fills it in.


Here a 1.5" deep track is just a track in the field and a good rain will take care of it. Would need to be 3" deep or deeper to be considered a rut. If I have to haul in dirt to fill it in then it is a rut and is usually made by someone that wasn't suppose to be in the field to begin with.


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## slowzuki

On our soils here the ruts start when you break through the sod and drop in to the axles. There is usually another set about the length of a jerk strap away.

Definitely 7 k axles. The hitch carries some of the load but thats a bit of trailer there too. With a 3rd axle that would make a nice hay trailer for me!


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## JMT

Owner of trailers e-mailed me and said he would sell for $3000 per if I bought all four.

Could put a set of 10K duals on one and move the "7K axles (if that's what they are) to the other trailers. Could end up with 1-10k tandem dually, 2-7K triple axles, and 1 with the original set up.

Problem with that around here is time and money. Cows seem to eat up most of what I have, and I already have a homemade 32' gooseneck, with 4 travel trailer axles, that needs a 2ft. extension and new axles. I bought the homemade at auction for $900.

I have a line on another 35' strait deck trailer (tandem dual, 10K axles) for $4000. A Hurst brand trailer. When I get time, I am going to go look at this trailer, but four more "project trailers" have me thinking.


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## MT hayer

I like the way you think! There might be two issues though. The first one is the frame for single tires is a different width then a dual. Like a foot? The single being wider. The second being, because they are that long, even if you could put duals under it, the frame isn't going to be heavy enough to span that far without adding some bridge metal underneath. We have one with duals, and had to bridge it because you can put too much on.

I like the triple axle single wheel because your frame is wider, your wide load isn't going to sway near like a tandem dual. Second, you have the three axles that span nine feet? Your tandem dual spans 6? I am saying you depend less on frame and more on axle. Three 7k axles is 21k? Two tens are 20k? Special order trailers with 12k, or 15k axles with 17.5s would be the exception. Then yes, you have more tires. You have to keep an eye on the lug bolts with duals because they seem to break under heavy load if not watched.

Turning, yes it makes you cringe, but check your wheel nuts occasionally and use GOOD rims, you won't have any trouble. Don't jack knife it with 18 bales on pavement and drag it side ways you will be fine! A triple is smoother in a field because when one wheel is in a hole, two are out to carry the load. Especially with torflex axles.

So there is some more to chew on. He came down considerably. I might even think about taking the worst one and just put it up on blocks for a deck to set tanks, chains, pallet forks and such on. I agree with taking two and making three axles out of them. Sounds like a project to me!


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## JMT

I may have to go look over the frames and axles. Anything specific I should look for?

Any spots on frames that tend to crack or wear first?

Anyone know specs for dual axle frame widths? I recall seeing a schematic onetime when looking for used axles, but I can't remember where.


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## rajela

I always thought the frames would be the same width on a single or dual tire trailer. The tires where located a little farther under the deck on a single and the duals had offset rims. Hmmmmm


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## cmd

I looked at the ad and I think you can be pretty certain they are 7k axles X 2 = 14K trailer. People are idiots, I have had guys tell me they towed a 10,000 lb trailer like it was nothing with their new truck, etc, then they tell me they had 2000 lbs on it. Ok 3,000 lb trailer + 2000 = 5000. But they somehow much think it always weights 10,000. It's hard to imagine living that dumb but they are out there.


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## deadmoose

cmd said:


> I looked at the ad and I think you can be pretty certain they are 7k axles X 2 = 14K trailer. People are idiots, I have had guys tell me they towed a 10,000 lb trailer like it was nothing with their new truck, etc, then they tell me they had 2000 lbs on it. Ok 3,000 lb trailer + 2000 = 5000. But they somehow much think it always weights 10,000. It's hard to imagine living that dumb but they are out there.


Never under estimate the stupidity of some people. It can be overwhelming.


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## MT hayer

Hah!!!! That is a for sure CMD! It would be a bad day to have that every day! I can't imagine that story after a few beers! oh my.....

Any way, I measured my trailers today, the Titan which is a tandem single, is 72", the tandem dual Kiefer built is 50". A truck trailer frame is about 49" or so.

Things to look for would be to see if the frame is bent. Get your eye down to deck level from a ways back and see if you see any thing odd. Check the welds on the goose neck. Check every tire for wear, cupping and such. Typically cupping means the axle is bent, or the axle has moved due to a broke spring or loose u bolts. If they are Torflex axles and bent, replacement is necessary then. If the tires have a wavy wear pattern, it could be a loose wheel bearing.

Stand behind the trailer and glance at the tires. They should be parallel to the outside frame of the trailer. If one is off, bent axle, if they are both off, the factory could have been sloppy and welded them on not square. They don't wear tires but they pull to one side or the other. These are some quick things to look for. You could measure the I beam and we might be able to tell you what pound frame it is from the thickness. Find the manufacture tag and that might tell you more.

Lastly, look at the frame right above the axles. If it looks worn, like it has been loaded to the point that the frame just rode on the axles, look really close for cracks. If it looks bad to you, tell him that you just might be able to do 2 grand for that one! Then you cut it off there, move the axles ahead and nice 25' trailer. Make a dock or deck out of the rest.


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## swmnhay

I don't think much of a tri axle torkflex because of the span of the 3 axles when you go over a big hump like a high rail road crossing.The back wheels will come off the ground putting all the pressure on the other axles.The ones I've seen don't have any equalizers between the axles like tandem duals normaly do.I know of 3 trailers that they have bent axles because of this.My stock trailer has 2-7000# torkflex axles and that makes me cringe going over a hump let alone a tri ax.

When I got my first flatbed trailer the mfg actually talked me out of a tri ax and going with tandem duals.They said they had way less issues with the tandem duals then the tri axles.They didn't even want to sell me a tri ax for what I was using it for.They said if you were on the flat highway 100% of the time fine.But its the times you have no choice end end up going over a big hump,or someone turns to short with a load you will have issues.


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## MT hayer

Yes I suppose you could bend them. I have spring 7k axles bent though too. That is the best part of this is to get all input. A lot of people have the duals yes. If you go over the hump at 75 mph, yes I would imagine the first one would bend, and your head off the ceiling too. I have people that cuss a three axle, but then come and get mine!

They make Torflex dual wheel axles too. The one thing to keep in mind is when you have rubber torsion axle, you have to adjust your hitch to keep the trailer level. I recommend you adjust so the trailer empty, is an inch or better uphill. That way loaded, you sit level. If your trailer goes down hill bad loaded, might think about a different pickup. If you change pickups a lot with different hitch heights, your better off with the springs because of the levelers.

What all do you do with your trailer SWMNHay?


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## swmnhay

MT hayer said:


> Yes I suppose you could bend them. I have spring 7k axles bent though too. That is the best part of this is to get all input. A lot of people have the duals yes. If you go over the hump at 75 mph, yes I would imagine the first one would bend, and your head off the ceiling too. I have people that cuss a three axle, but then come and get mine!
> They make Torflex dual wheel axles too. The one thing to keep in mind is when you have rubber torsion axle, you have to adjust your hitch to keep the trailer level. I recommend you adjust so the trailer empty, is an inch or better uphill. That way loaded, you sit level. If your trailer goes down hill bad loaded, might think about a different pickup. If you change pickups a lot with different hitch heights, your better off with the springs because of the levelers.
> 
> What all do you do with your trailer SWMNHay?


They are mostly used to haul hay.11 - 14 5x6 bales.I usually haul skid loader to hay stack to load the hay with.Ocassinally I will haul a tractor also.I haul pallets of seed,netwrap,twine,etc also.

I have a 98 Felling gooseneck with beaver tail that has atleast 300,000 miles on it.It has 10K axles.With 10 ply 16" tires.It is built heavier then a lot of the bargin trailers and has stood up well.Still has original white oak deck.

I also have a 2012 Titan gooseneck that I special ordered with heavier axles and tires.12K axles and 17.5 16 ply tires.Both trailers are tandem duals.This trailer is setup more for handleing pallets also.It has the wide ramps that when flipped up you have a nice flat surface.

I should of weighed this load.There is close to 21,000lbs on the trailer.About 36K gross.I'm glad DOT didn't weigh me,lol.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151918444488996&set=t.100000081631994&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash4%2Ft31.0-8%2F1410837_10151918444488996_1942517773_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn2%2Ft1.0-9%2F1382198_10151918444488996_1942517773_n.jpg&size=2048%2C1536


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## JMT

Swmnhay did you have the frame of your Titan beefed to match the heavier axles, wheels, and tires?


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## MT hayer

Hah! Yes I bet you are! There would be some short guy come to see with all sorts of smiles! Your special order trailer is a different ball game. You can hurt the frame on it and the axles will be fine. What do your trailers weigh?


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## swmnhay

JMT said:


> Swmnhay did you have the frame of your Titan beefed to match the heavier axles, wheels, and tires?


Yes the frame is heavier.IIRC standard frame is 10# per ft and the heavy duty frame is 12# per ft.Cost was very little extra.$200-250??


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## swmnhay

MT hayer said:


> Hah! Yes I bet you are! There would be some short guy come to see with all sorts of smiles! Your special order trailer is a different ball game. You can hurt the frame on it and the axles will be fine. What do your trailers weigh?


I'd have to go weigh the pickup to get exact trailer wt.But with the dodge 4 dr pickup the Felling 30' trailer weighs 14,500 and the Titan 26' trailer with heavier frame,axles and tires weighs 15,000.


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## MT hayer

They have some weight to them. My three axle is a Donahue 812 swathed trailer. It has three 7k axles. It weighs 8k by it self! Then the dodge weighed 8 with the box on it. This trailer is on the third pickup. It has seen a lot of gravel miles too. I myself need a single axle truck for it, but they have went way up. So I just use the Pete on it to save the pickup some. What year of dodge do you use? I can haul 14 bales easy. I have had some ugly loads on it. No bent axles or any issues. I would rather have three 8k axles but this was how this one came.


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## swmnhay

MT hayer said:


> They have some weight to them. My three axle is a Donahue 812 swathed trailer. It has three 7k axles. It weighs 8k by it self! Then the dodge weighed 8 with the box on it. This trailer is on the third pickup. It has seen a lot of gravel miles too. I myself need a single axle truck for it, but they have went way up. So I just use the Pete on it to save the pickup some. What year of dodge do you use? I can haul 14 bales easy. I have had some ugly loads on it. No bent axles or any issues. I would rather have three 8k axles but this was how this one came.


2008 Dodge Cummins,auto
2005 Dodge Cummins auto


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## rajela

swmnhay said:


> Yes the frame is heavier.IIRC standard frame is 10# per ft and the heavy duty frame is 12# per ft.Cost was very little extra.$200-250??


Whoaaaaaaaaaaa....you sure you didn't mean 10" and 12" a 10# or 12# beam is pretty light. My TEXLINE has a bridged 12" X 19# main beams with a 8" torque tube and it is just the standard duty.


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## swmnhay

Ooops its 22# beam,standard is 19#


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## rajela

swmnhay said:


> Ooops its 22# beam,standard is 19#


That sounds better...........yea the TEXLINE offer a 22# upgrade but with the bridging it wasn't needed and unless your moving up to 15K axles you lose on the GVWR. Mine has 12K axles and still can only legally haul a little over 16K. The damn thing weighs right at 8K.


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## JMT

Probably a dumb question that has been asked and answered before, but I will ask again. If you have 2 12K axles are you legally limited to a 24000# load? Some weight of the trailer and the load should be on the truck and it's axles right?


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## swmnhay

JMT said:


> Probably a dumb question that has been asked and answered before, but I will ask again. If you have 2 12K axles are you legally limited to a 24000# load? Some weight of the trailer and the load should be on the truck and it's axles right?


You are limited to 24,000 lbs gross weight on the trailer axles.And you are limited to what the pickup is lisenced for up to the rated weight on the pickup axles.

So it trailer weighs 8000 lbs and pickup weighs 7000 lbs and is rated at 9K you can haul 16,000 on trailer axles and 2000 on pickup if loaded correctly for total of 18,000.

Clear as mud?


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## rajela

http://www.constructionbusinessowner.com/topics/equipment/construction-equipment-management/understand-your-trailer-gross-vehicle-weight


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## MT hayer

That is a good article. A lot of people dont understand it. Tires make a huge difference. There can be 500 labs or more load rating difference. You can have a poor trailer but good tires. And this torque tube down the middle of that trailer, what is the purpose of it?


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## rajela

The torque tube helps to prevent the trailer from twisting from side to side.


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## MT hayer

Does this twisting hurt anything? Just adds unnecessary weight. If a person can't center their load, well..... A neighbor has one, he can set a bale on a front corner and it doesn't move I guess. There are no truck trailers with them? There needs to be some flex, or things start breaking. Tell me more about it?


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## Lewis Ranch

Torque tube is a necessity. If you ever have a trailer with one you will hate every trailer without them. The trailer still has a bit of flex but i would say it takes 90% of it out, worth every penny when hauling tall heavy loads.


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## rajela

Lewis Ranch said:


> Torque tube is a necessity. If you ever have a trailer with one you will hate every trailer without them. The trailer still has a bit of flex but i would say it takes 90% of it out, worth every penny when hauling tall heavy loads.


The Gentleman from TEXAS is correct. Not all loads can be loaded with even weight on both sides.


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## cmd

swmnhay said:


> You are limited to 24,000 lbs gross weight on the trailer axles.And you are limited to what the pickup is lisenced for up to the rated weight on the pickup axles.
> 
> So it trailer weighs 8000 lbs and pickup weighs 7000 lbs and is rated at 9K you can haul 16,000 on trailer axles and 2000 on pickup if loaded correctly for total of 18,000.
> 
> Clear as mud?


Here in PA, if you are pulling a trailer over 10K, your truck registration needs to be high enough to cover the whole rig, just like a semi. So if your combo is 36,000 (12K truck, 24K trailer) the truck needs a sticker high enough to cover the 36,000. You are also needing CDL on my example rig. I think many states would have some shade of this system.

Manufacturers tow rating is the guideline for max combination weight.

If you get pulled over and weighed by DOT they are looking for you to be over an axle's capacity or over your combined registration weight.


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## MT hayer

Well Lewis, I have pulled some with tubes. Terrible idea! I think it is nice they make a little from you. More weight and something else to watch the welds on. In the oilfield up here they recommend not getting the tube because they are always fixing, and in a wreck, they cost a lot to fix and usually just cut them out. So I certainly don't need one.

What do you think about the pierced frame trailers?

JMT, there has been a lot of discussion on this subject. Let us know what you find and any more questions. I think you will make out good with those. All in the eye of the beholder!


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## rajela

In the oil fields down here they use very few utility trailers. The hot shot haulers have some but they are only hauling lighter loads that need to get there quickly. The companies all have there own rigs or lease them to haul the heavy stuff.

I can guarantee you know one can over load a trailer like a SE Okla farmer can. Farm vehicles and trailers are not required by the OKDOT to obtain any type of permits so they usually just wave as we go by. If we can get it on we will haul it.

If you are having to reweld your trailer you might want to find a new manufacture. If it gets wrecked they can put the new tube under it when they build the new trailer.

Pierced frames suck...I have no use for them. If you really want to weaken your frame cut and weld a bunch of holes in it.


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## JMT

Another concern I have is the length of the trailers in general. I have a 20+5' gooseneck and some of our driveways, gates, bale lots, and etc. are a little tight. How much less maneuverable would a 35' trailer be?

The homemade 32' I have is not much different than the 25', but I think the axles are further forward than usual.


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## Lewis Ranch

MT hayer said:


> Well Lewis, I have pulled some with tubes. Terrible idea! I think it is nice they make a little from you. More weight and something else to watch the welds on


I will disagree. Any deck over gooseneck needs a torque tube, no questions asked. I hate hooking to a trailer without one. And if your having to watch the welds you probably don't need to be pulling the trailer in the first place, somebody that is that hard on equipment has no need to be in the drivers seat. I load my trailers to the gills with every load and have never had a problem.


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## MT hayer

Step deck truck trailers. There is quite a few on the road right? All pierced frame...... Thanks for the thoughts guys.

That sure is something to consider JMT. I guess your going to have to judge your drive ways. They sure could be too long at that length. What do you feel comfortable with?


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## rajela

MT hayer you keep wanting to compare over the road trailers to neck over utility trailers these are 2 completely different animals.


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## MT hayer

Jmt, did you get your trailers bought?


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## JMT

Have not got a chance to look at the trailers. I did buy another trailer though. 35' dual tandem strait deck. Hurst brand 1996 model, rough but functional for a mostly in the field trailer. Paid $4000.

Still not sure of handling the length of the trailer. Will definitely be real tight on our drives, lots, and fields. Discovered the trailer is actually a 36' deck and has had about a 12" extension added to the gooseneck.

Despite it's rough shape, if I can't handle the length, I think I can get my money back out of the trailer by selling in a consignment auction.


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## MT hayer

I see. Never seen one of them. Must be rough if they added to the neck? Well good, glad to here you got something to work with!


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## JMT

Neck was extended because it was being pulled by a truck that needed additional clearance due to hitch location. Extension was professionally done and looks good(except paint).

Rest of trailer is solid, but has had many "accessories" welded on and then cut off. This welding and cutting was not done professionally and looks rough. Floor is also solid but aged and very weathered.

If it doesn't work for me a little time with a grinder and some paint would make it look a lot better.


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## slowzuki

Trailer designed with enough torsional stiffness won't need a torque tube. Tube is just one easy way to provide that stiffness.

Trailer with inadequately designed torque tube will break up the tube and x-members just like one with too light a frame.


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