# Thoughts on cutting hay at night



## tnwalkingred (Jun 8, 2010)

Since I work a regular 40 hour a week job and my time to get hay up is limited I have planned on cutting my hay in the evenings/night after I get off work typically on Thursday so I have the weekend to bale and put the hay up. I will typically start around 5pm and try to finish before 11pm. Any thoughts on this???? Pros/Cons vs. starting to cut mid morning? Thanks.

Kyle


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## Haymike56 (May 3, 2010)

That system has worked for me the last 10 years. I will cut on Wednesday night and have someone lined up to ted the next morning after the dew is gone. It is usually ready to bale Saturday afternoon. That gives me Sunday as a backup if the humidity is up or a NE wind is blowing. I know the theroy is to cut in the morning so the plant resperates all day and dries out but that just dosen't fit my schedule. Good luck


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

You have to do what you have to do, The sugar levels go up in the plant out of the roots through the day, but you loose some drying time and some of that sugar respirates off some say a longer drying time etc, as far as I,m concerned you cut it when you are able to.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Been done that way for many years. A lot depends on location for yield and quality lost for night cutting.

If teh night temperatures are below 50* or 60* F is better than those 80* F night temperatures.

Any yield loss will not show as it will have been used up carbohydrates producing energy, CO2 & water.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm busy enough that I don't care what the clock says I mow when I get a chance, but I also sell 100% of my hay by sight. If it looks purty then it sells good.

Around here I've never seen proof that testing the hay then bringing the test results raises the sell price enough at the auctions to even cover the test cost. Usually the new guys do it, then after a couple of years they quit placing the test results on the back of the trucks with the scale ticket.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

My alfalfa is cut only during daylight hours to keep the sugar and protein levels up high as possible, as far as any grass,wheat,tritcalie or haygrazer we will run after dark . Also depends if it is custom work too . most of the time with 2 swathers I have no need to get them too far ahead of the rake and balers .


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## kyfred (Dec 23, 2009)

When you have a job that pays more than the farm the hay and other chores have to be worked in to fit your schedule. Thats what I have had to do for the last 26 years. I don't tell the cows when the hay was cut and they eat it ok. Some say that I am a half-fast farmer for not doing things when it should be done. I guess I will learn some day how to do it right. LOL


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

First off I know your TN Forage Specialist *Gary Bates*. An interesting individual with Louisiana ways. 
========================================
The faster and drier we can have the hay dried the less respiration.

Respiration depletes nutrients but shoot my experience has been round bales will test 1% - 2% less than small bales. 
The only way to know exactly how much yield is lost is to harvest three ways. First with one of those research machines that is not much more than a small mower with a catch bag for all the clipping. 
Then with a full width swath with the tractor tires running on the hay. 
Last a more conventional windrow. 
Accurately measure the quality and quantity, and report the differences. Several University Weenies have done basically that. Besides that they have done AM & PM mowing and measured the difference chemically and in animal acceptance. (That is why I want to be finished mowing by 3:30 PM DST HERE to give me 5 hours of direct sunshine to drop the moisture content enough to stop or at least slow respiration to save some of the extra *sugar* realized by PM harvesting )
Back the deal conventional harvesting looses for many reasons 25% to 35% of the dry matter. Wide thin swath looses 15% to 25% of dry matter. The differences might be considered how much yield is gained with the full width swath.
The lower percentages I believe are due to best management practices based on common sense and humidity. 
Rake when the humidity is as high as it will get during the day. 
Square bale when the humidity, down next to the hay, is 70% which bales using my on th ego moisture tester as 18% to 20% Moisture. From time to time the moisture will jump up to 22% moisture with damper spots.

RB when the humidity gets down to 65, which when I am sq baling shows to be 16% to 18% moisture.

The best I can tell the leaf shatter becomes significant when the air drops to the 55% maybe 50% humidity range, down next to the hay. My observation is leaf shatter is of interest at 12% moisture and stop baling shatter at 11% moisture.

Test results, really do matter, with some buyers. Selling hay in California, Idaho, NM, & Texas Pan Handle those people can be real picky on test results. 
As for others, Here if it has string around it the price is one thing & with wire the price will be higher per ton. Most buyers want the best for the least cost, and that is not a crime. That is what the Free Market is all about. 
Every cutting from every field is tested coming out of the field. Here the only test anyone looks at is protein so that is what I pay for. I look at the mineral analysis to monitor my soil fertility & I pay for that also.

Last I looked NIR hay analysis was in the $25 range and for me I got N, P, K, Mg, & Ca. 
I changed to a Wet Lab and they reported CP & TDN plus N, P, K, Mg, Ca, S, Fe, MN, Zn, & Na. The cost for that was >$30. No boron information,
Come the awakening and I changed again to a plant analysis with all the above minerals plus boron but Ihad to compute CP by multiplying N% X 6.25 = CP. Cost last year was $20 this year $22. Everybody is happy, with the possible exception of the Laboratory.

After all we do have to keep the customer coming back. For those who simply load a truck and send it down the road as long as you are happy that is all that matters. 
Saying is you are supposed to shear a sheep, but if you skin the sheep that is the last you will see of that particular animal.

If you have regular dairy customers then you supply the hay analysis they want using the Lab of their choice.

My sales technique is to give a prospective customer two small bales. For free. If their animals like my hay or better yet prefer my hay I will get my $20 back over the year. 
Gave two bales of bermudagrass hay to a donkey owner. He came back the next day with a trailer because his donkeys cleaned up my hay and used the compition's hay for bedding. I know the compition starts raking when I consider it to dry to bale. Then he bales the hay. Unlike alfalfa, bermudagrass hay with no leaves can look good.

My dairy customers are milking goats not cows. Last time I checked goat milk was selling for $35/100 lbs going to the cheese plant. They measure quality with their milk yield and analysis.

I sell hay to the BTO & would be BTO beef people, hay that they put in their barn for when they have one or more animals up for some problem or another.

I hold back the lower quality hay for the horse owners. HERE the horses do not NEED high quality hay. 
I am forthright with them. There hay is not as good as dairy quality hay. Now if they have a wet mare THEN I sell them some quality hay. 
The BTO horse owners, HERE, are as difficult to collect money from as the starving cow dairy owners.


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## Greyhorse (Jun 22, 2009)

Hay wilson,

What are you using to measure humidity levels at hay level? Pretty much everything you post about baling coastal makes sense for me to do even though I'm not selling most of it, as expensive as it is to produce now I figure I'm best off trying to make the highest quality hay I can.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Under weather Wind & Weather Monitoring is their Kestrel 3000 in the book is pp 453. $154 + S & H.

Under Infared thermometers pp 459
"Higher Accuracy Temperature and Hymidity Pen" $85.70 + S & H

Digitial Pocket Psychrometer (Quick and Accurate) $110.50

You can probably beat those prices by doing a search.

Is Cummins still your County Agent? If you see him say high for me.

If interested I am going to be the other side of Tyler at the East Texas Farm & Ranch Club meeting 5PM for BS & BBQ. RSVP 903/597-2501 [email protected].

Last minute directions 903/504-9969

Monte Rouquette from Overton will be there as well as others.


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## Greyhorse (Jun 22, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Is Cummins still your County Agent? If you see him say high for me.


He retired last fall/winter I think. I went to a winter forage seminar in October I think it was and he told me he had turned in his paperwork.


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## tonto97 (Mar 25, 2011)

The best I can tell the leaf shatter becomes significant when the air drops to the 55% maybe 50% humidity range, down next to the hay. My observation is leaf shatter is of interest at 12% moisture and stop baling shatter at 11% moisture. 

Hay Wilson: Please say more about leaf shatter vs humidity. I understand the importance and the risk of fooling with alfalfa when it is too dry -- leaves say goodbye -- stems say hello. But, talk more about the importance (or not) of the 12 to 14% humidity window to grass hay, esp. orchard grass + timothy. Also, what about fescue + orchard? Here is KY, we are blessed? with lots of humidity in the warm months so to be safe from mold, I usually wait until 12 to 14% on my horse hay in the windrow. Usually get about 10 to 12% CP in the finished roll. Do you think the CP would be higher if I baled 12 to 16% moisture? Mold is a killer of my horse hay sales, so I usually play it safe by rolling on the dry side. Thanks.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I am glad for Brian Cummins but I will miss him.

*more about leaf shatter vs humidity. *
You realize I have a "it works" knowledge but not a thorough understanding. 
This is for fully cured hay, not for hay that is still in the process of drying down. 
When the air next to the windrow is 70% the hay will be no lower than 18% moisture.

This is saying the stems, prior to the onset of the dew, were below 18% moisture and the leaves were as dry as gun powder. The dew brings the hay moisture up to 18% with the leaves being above 20% and the drier stems being dry the average is 18%.

Obviously the day most probably the day after cutting when the humidity going down through 70% humidity the stems are in the 60% moisture range the leaves may be dry for an average of too wet to bale.

I speculate. the ideal would be to have the stems very close to 0% (zero) and the leaves close to 40% moisture, average no more than 20% moisture.

In practical terms the stems will be between 10% & 15% moisture and the leaves be in the 25% to 30% moisture for minimum leaf lose and no more than 20% average moisture.

Baling at 12% to 14% moisture means the leaves will be less than 20% moisture and leaves that are predisposed to shattering will.

Whether the leaves are lost & on the ground depends on the baler type. A round baler will sling the leaves off. a JD or NH square baler some leaves will be lost and some shattered leaves will be loose in the bale.

An inline baler will have the highest percentage of leaves in the bale even though many of the leaves are no longer attached to the stems.

I can not speak to your grass hay types. The only grass hay I bale is bermudagrass. Bermudagrass can start out being 70% leaves. Bermudagrass hay shatters more leaves than alfalfa. 
Assuming good fertilizer management:
Bermudagrass hay baled at 28 day intervals, should be in the 16% CP range. 
Bermudagrass hay baled at 42 day intervals, should be in the 12% CP range. 
My market will not pay for a hay that is higher than 12% CP. 
The typical bermudagrass hay is in the 8% CP range.

I like to think my wonderful hay baling techniques result in no more than 15% dry matter loss. In practice it is closer to 30% yield lose due to harvesting. 
When our university friends report 7 T/A DM yield, that is zero moisture. I deduct 15% from their 7 T = 5.95 T of hay which is really 5 T/A DM in the barn.

This is not data from Kentucky's Gary Lacefield, it is the working assumptions of a Texas Hay Grower. There is a perfectly good chance the Texas Hay Grower is as full of scat as a Christmas Turkey.


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