# Round baler PTO requirements



## gulogulo (Mar 9, 2014)

Hey folks. I could really use some advice. I'm thinking seriously of trading in my Krone Bellima (fixed chamber) for a New Holland Roll-Belt 450 Silage Special (basically what used to be the BR7060 but curvier). There are lots of reasons why, but basically I want to feed out less often and use less wrap by making solid hard-core bales instead of saggy marshmallows (the first cut is fine with the Krone -- it's the second cut and anything after that makes puny bales).

My question is this. The 450 Silage Special calls for a minimum PTO hp of 65. I drive a John Deere 5083E with PTO hp of 69, and I have some very hilly terrain. The dealer, who also sells Krones, says I'll be fine so long as I keep the bale dimensions no bigger than 48"x52".

What do you guys think? Ever operate a bigger round baler with a tractor sized like mine? Any thoughts on whether I'll be over-taxing the tractor, or just failing to bale the way this baler wants to?

Many thanks in advance.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I like bigger. Not knowing what you mean by "hilly", I would probably want at least 100HP, mainly due to weight. Baling on grass hay often means you have a little slicker surface and this is were the extra weight will help. Also, the uphill trip could cause you to bog down, have to be down shifting when you"re near full.

The 5083E is JD's economy tractor. I'd be guessing you would be on the edge.

Just thinking....

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

gulogulo said:


> Hey folks. I could really use some advice. I'm thinking seriously of trading in my Krone Bellima (fixed chamber) for a New Holland Roll-Belt 450 Silage Special (basically what used to be the BR7060 but curvier). There are lots of reasons why, but basically I want to feed out less often and use less wrap by making solid hard-core bales instead of saggy marshmallows (the first cut is fine with the Krone -- it's the second cut and anything after that makes puny bales).
> 
> My question is this. The 450 Silage Special calls for a minimum PTO hp of 65. I drive a John Deere 5083E with PTO hp of 69, and I have some very hilly terrain. The dealer, who also sells Krones, says I'll be fine so long as I keep the bale dimensions no bigger than 48"x52".
> 
> ...


Heres my worthless .02.

I pulled a BR7060 sileage special with an even smaller tractor than you got. A kubota M-7040. And we ALL know John Deere HP is better than Kubota "Jap" HP!! LOL

So even with all those disadvantages, I was able to make many, many very nice 4x5 bales with only 62 "Jap" HP. .

Hills no problem with 4WD,,, just drop a gear.

Unless the 450 requires more HP than the 7060 SS, you will be fine.

Coming downhill could be a little stressful. Might not want to have a full bale chamber.

Having 4WD, good tires, wheel weights are a BIG help.

Baler dont care, tractor wont care, just be careful going downhill.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I pulled our Vermeer 405 M Classic silage baler with friend's 5083E one day. I baled at 5 MPH in medium hay making 60 inch rolls.

This was on fairly level ground. Power was not an issue.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

One trick if your worried about power. Rake real heavy. Rake as much as you can in the windrow. Than when your baling you will have to gear down to feed the baler and therefore your using more tractor power to run the baler and less power to pull the baler.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> One trick if your worried about power. Rake real heavy. Rake as much as you can in the windrow. Than when your baling you will have to gear down to feed the baler and therefore your using more tractor power to run the baler and less power to pull the baler.


This is a excellent recommendation.....and by making the larger windrows you will have to cover less ground thus compensating somewhat for a lower operating speed, but not really taking much more time to bale overall.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I agree I want to be careful in the downhill. Some hills that buy broken door sliding down on our fatm maybe I'd slide into a wheat field and Grumble about it. Other fields if I broke into a slide and headed downhill I go directly into a wooded area as a mother as I go off a cliff. I said before be careful going downhill and make sure the tractor is properly weighted. I would not attempt it if it did not have a cab or ROPS.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry about that sometimes when I put a post together on this phone I send it and the auto correct or whatever it is turns it into something I don't even know. It doesn't look like that when I read it . pretty much should go back to using the laptop


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

gulogulo said:


> Hey folks. I could really use some advice. I'm thinking seriously of trading in my Krone Bellima (fixed chamber) for a New Holland Roll-Belt 450 Silage Special (basically what used to be the BR7060 but curvier). There are lots of reasons why, but basically I want to feed out less often and use less wrap by making solid hard-core bales instead of saggy marshmallows (the first cut is fine with the Krone -- it's the second cut and anything after that makes puny bales).
> My question is this. The 450 Silage Special calls for a minimum PTO hp of 65. I drive a John Deere 5083E with PTO hp of 69, and I have some very hilly terrain. The dealer, who also sells Krones, says I'll be fine so long as I keep the bale dimensions no bigger than 48"x52".
> What do you guys think? Ever operate a bigger round baler with a tractor sized like mine? Any thoughts on whether I'll be over-taxing the tractor, or just failing to bale the way this baler wants to?
> Many thanks in advance.


And you are correct that the 450 (newer version of 7060) WILL make very tight solid bales. I'm really happy with that aspect of my NH baler. When I pull into a delivery, customers always compliment the way the bales look perfectly round.


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## 20156point7 (Apr 7, 2015)

I have a jd 459ss and I used to use a 5083e to pull it. I have some nasty hills to deal with and It handled it ok as long as you didn't get in a hurry. The fastest I could go is about 2.5 mph and that's in B range 1st gear. I recently bought a John Deere 2555, and it surprisingly handles the baler a lot better than the 5083e. The 459ss has a pto requirement of 55pto, but there's no way a 55pto tractor is gonna pull it up my hills.


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## gulogulo (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I'm much obliged to you. A follow-up question:

You think I'd be better off with a smaller variable-chamber, like a John Deere 449 w/ high moisture kit?

Anyone have any experience with those high moisture kits, or care to weigh in on whether they work as well as an actual silage special baler?

(Sidenote: the NH dealer says the BR7050 "high moisture" baler, as opposed to a silage special machine like the 450ss (ex-7060), can only handle baleage at around 35% moisture, which is way too low for me).


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

Most HP requirements are made to include the weight of the machine also, which can top 4 tons with the chamber full. There are those out there who would try to hook a 5x6 baler to a 25 HP tractor if they thought it was possible.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

I believe the manufacturer would consider hills, older tractors, etc.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hugh said:


> I believe the manufacturer would consider hills, older tractors, etc.


I respectfully disagree (in most cases). Many manufactures will state the HP requirements under what they consider normal usage conditions. E.g., I have yet to see an equipment ad for hay equipment working on ground even close to mine.

A while back, I considered a big square and the baler I was considering had a HP requirement of 10 HP. My dealer, a very good quy, said I should run at least 175 HP.

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> I respectfully disagree (in most cases). Many manufactures will state the HP requirements under what they consider normal usage conditions. E.g., I have yet to see an equipment ad for hay equipment working on ground even close to mine.
> 
> A while back, I considered a big square and the baler I was considering had a HP requirement of 10 HP. My dealer, a very good quy, said I should run at least 175 HP.
> 
> Ralph


I believe you have a hp typo Ralph......was it supposed to be 150 hp that was baler required?

Regards, Mike


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

I believe Ralph probably meant 100 hp. I believe that is what my claas requires. We run 165 hp loaded down with weights. I always consider manufacturer ratings to be flat ground and then I adjust accordingly.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> I believe you have a hp typo Ralph......was it supposed to be 150 hp that was baler required?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Right -- 150HP (#5 key on my keyboard doesn't always work).

Ralph


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## gulogulo (Mar 9, 2014)

Hey folks,

For better or worse, I ended up buying that NH RB450, and aside from feeling overwhelmed by the sheer amount of computer gadgetry that has to be calibrated, etc., I'm already (after only a few trial bales) having a PTO issue. I wonder if you'd be so kind as to weigh in.

About 1 out of every 10 times I pull the PTO knob with baler attached, the PTO will spin for only about one second and then die. The light stays on. If I cycle the knob again, it'll start up, sometimes with an audible 'clunk' before the spinning begins. Then it runs fine until the next time I switch the PTO off and start it again.

At first I thought the PTO valve or solenoid was acting up again (both were non-functional and replaced 5 years ago when the tractor had only 15 hrs on it), but in those days the PTO would act up regardless of what attachment I had on, and it was different -- it either wouldn't switch on at all, or it would switch on and then quit spinning after 10 or 20 minutes, somewhat at random, with the light still on.

Now, when I take the baler off and try a different implement, like my disc mower, the PTO runs fine and doesn't skip a beat. I've tried it probably 50 times.

I'm wondering whether, in your experience, a PTO can meet a certain amount of resistance and just, well, not want to spin. This baler is really, really heavy. Far heavier than older models -- just the drive-shaft alone is far beefier than anything else we have on the farm. Its minimum PTO requirement is 65 horse. My tractor puts out a max of 69 horse in the PTO.

I thought about starting the PTO at higher RPMs but don't want to risk damaging the tractor if the load is just too high.

But when the PTO does start and keep spinning, the tractor seems to run the baler no problem (granted, I haven't tried to stop while going down a hill with a full chamber).

Many thanks in advance for your wisdom.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

What's the chances that it's a low-voltage issue? If the monitor is not powered directly from the battery and running through a common supply that effects the PTO switch, it could be giving a low-voltage to the PTO and giving it fits?

If the PTO works on everything else, the only difference would be the electrical draw of the baler?

Mark

PS; I know my suggestion isn't very smart or based in experience, so you don't have to tell me how dumb the idea is....I already know.


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## gulogulo (Mar 9, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> What's the chances that it's a low-voltage issue? If the monitor is not powered directly from the battery and running through a common supply that effects the PTO switch, it could be giving a low-voltage to the PTO and giving it fits?
> 
> If the PTO works on everything else, the only difference would be the electrical draw of the baler?
> 
> ...


Hey Mark,

I just had the same idea, so maybe we're both crazy. The salesman told me that some tractors don't have enough juice through the plug in the cab to run the bale monitor, and sometimes turning on the radio or something will cause the monitor to blip out. In those cases, they end up needing to wire the monitor all the way to the tractor's battery. So maybe the same can happen in reverse -- the monitor can suck enough juice that it causes the PTO switch to go nuts?

I can't tell whether this theory or the "PTO senses too much torque and won't go" theory is crazier.

Thanks again.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

It's my understanding that a NH baler should always be wired directly to the battery.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Once you start baling, why are you turning the PTO off? (This is my dumb question, today.) My round baler, takes some PTO power to start, even more so if a bale is started (or completed) in the chamber. Either way, as HiTech mentions, monitor should be directly hooked to battery. You wouldn't think monitor pull would be enough to toss PTO switch out of whack.

Now if you are talking about the current/amperage/voltage draw while the bale is getting wrapped that's a different story. If your monitor is like mine, you can check the draw via the monitor (operator's manual should have step by step instructions).

Larry


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## youngbaler (Apr 9, 2015)

I doubt it has anything to do with too much resistance.... I bought a jd 459e baler last spring and pull it with my 5065e tractor. It doesn't take anything to turn the baler when it's not baling and I have enough hp with that tractor to Bale 20+ tons per hour in good hay which amazed me.


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## gulogulo (Mar 9, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the help.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

youngbaler said:


> I doubt it has anything to do with too much resistance.... I bought a jd 459e baler last spring and pull it with my 5065e tractor. It doesn't take anything to turn the baler when it's not baling and I have enough hp with that tractor to Bale 20+ tons per hour in good hay which amazed me.


I also bale with a 5065E... have yet to "need more power." Granted, I'm not pulling a big square baler, but those don't sell around here anyway.


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## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

I have learned from many nightmare baling days to never trust the "Convenience Plug", in a cab tractor for reliable power for your baling monitor. *Always,* run a direct circuit with good heavy gauge wire that is fused directly to your monitor. Any variance in power, and or electrical interference can give your monitor fits. especially in a net wrap baler application. A separate circuit allows you to trouble shoot just that circuit instead of a wiring harness.


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

I'm thinking at some point I'll have to upgrade my Krone 135 baler. Love it, easy yo work on, eats hay all day long, but I'd appreciate a tighter bale, and the option of a larger bale when doing dry. What kind of $ was the NH?


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