# MDT legal combination weight?



## Gearclash

For those of you with experience with medium duty trucks, what is the maximum legal trailer weight that can be towed? I see that many MDTs are around 33,000 GAWR, but cant' find anything about combination weight. Gooseneck or 5th wheel hitch.

Long way down the road yet, but thinking ahead. I have a Dodge 2500 Cummins, and its a great truck, but loading it as heavy as I need to sometimes is out of its comfort zone. Going to a 3500 doesn't seem to be a big enough step up. 4500/5500 maybe but still seems to be none too big. Besides, any sizeable trailer behind a dually puts the combination in CDL territory anyway, so might as well have enough truck. Also like the idea of 8.3 Cummins or International 466 power.


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## NewBerlinBaler

I tried to find info on these ratings a few years ago but was unsuccessful. I think you'll need to visit a truck dealership.

I did learn a few things about CDL requirements - at least here in Pennsylvania. If your truck (tow vehicle) has a gross combination weight rating over 26,000 pounds and you hitch a trailer that has a gross vehicle weight rating over 10,000 pounds - you need a CDL. It doesn't matter if the truck/trailer is loaded or not and the registered weight also doesn't matter - only the manufacturer's ratings. This is interesting because some new heavy duty pickup trucks are rated up in this territory. If you have a trailer hitched up - even if it's unloaded - and your wife wants to drive it to the store, she better have a CDL!

Gary


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## JD3430

My IH4800 DT466 with 33,000GVWR had a GCWR of 60,000.
It had air brakes and 12r22.5 rubber, though.
Most single axle tractors or chassis are maxed out at about 48-54k. 
You're well into CDL territory with that much weight.

I'd look seriously at a 4500/5500 450/550.


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## Thorim

Hope this helps, the Federal Government sets up the minimum standard that are required for those who need a commercial drivers license, states are given the freedom to add to the minimums...

A driver needs a CDL if the vehicle meets one of the following definitions of a CMV: (commercial motor vehicle)  

Class A truck Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 26,001 or more pounds (11,793 kg) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds (4536 kg).

Class B truck Any single vehicle with a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 26,001 or more pounds (11,793 kg), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds (4536 kg) GVWR.


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## Gearclash

I got fined for not having a CDL a few years ago. 2500 pickup and a tandem dual trailer. I didn't say a word as I knew very well that the combined weight rating was over 26.000, no matter how it was figured.

JD, how much would you be comfortable putting behind a 4500/5500 (would have to be Dodge) as a gooseneck? The least I would want for a trailer would be tandem dual, would consider a triple dual.


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> I got fined for not having a CDL a few years ago. 2500 pickup and a tandem dual trailer. I didn't say a word as I knew very well that the combined weight rating was over 26.000, no matter how it was figured.
> 
> JD, how much would you be comfortable putting behind a 4500/5500 (would have to be Dodge) as a gooseneck? The least I would want for a trailer would be tandem dual, would consider a triple dual.


I have my 550 tagged at GCWR of 33,000. Ive had my CDL Since the 80's. 
My 550 came with what Ford calls a "high cap. tow package", so 33,000lbs is actually what Ford rated my 2008 F-550 at. A typical 2008 F-550 was rated at a GCWR of 30,000. 
My truck weighs 9,400 empty. It's hevy with a crew ab and 4wd. 
So technically, I can tow 23,600 lbs "legally". 
I have towed 24,000 lbs and it can do it reasonably well. 
A 30' tandem dual 25k trailer weighs 7,000lbs EMPTY. So legally, I can only have a payload of 16,600lbs. That's 20 round bales for me. 
A typical duallie pickup has a GCWR a of about 24.000lbs. Truck weighs 7,000. Tandem dual trailer weighs 7,000. That leaves a payload of 10,000lbs. 
A triple dual trailer wouldn't be a good idea since you'll never come close to being able to utilize its full payload capacity unless you have close to 40,000 GCWR.
Fords new 2015 F-550 supposedly has a GCWR of almost 40k.

Problem is, if you need a crew cab or 4WD like me, the truck keeps getting heavier and the payload keeps getting lower.
You can buy a registration in excess of your trucks rated GCWR a, but then you open yourself up to all kinds of legalities should you get into an accident towing a load beyond the safety capacity of your truck.


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## PaMike

I don't know why more guys don't buy single axle day cab tractors. Maybe just a little too specialized, and no 4x4. Local guy has a little single axle freightliner. He can load 20K on the trailer no problem and be legal. He paid way less for the day cab used then any decent diesel pickup. No 4x4 is a big neg but really if you load a trailer heavy and is slick or muddy 4x4 isn't going to pull you out...I guess one of the big negs of a road tractor is you have to have a CDL and you cant fly under the radar. DOT will see you coming...


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## Gearclash

Problem is, if you need a crew cab or 4WD like me, the truck keeps getting heavier and the payload keeps getting lower.
You can buy a registration in excess of your trucks rated GCWR a, but then you open yourself up to all kinds of legalities should you get into an accident towing a load beyond the safety capacity of your truck.

This is exactly why I have been thinking MDT. It just seems too easy to get beyond the reasonable capabilities of a light truck. The MDT route intrigues me because there are "crew cab" versions out there that would make it possible to take my family with me, although they are harder to find. There are also 4x4 versions, but again, hard to find.

Thanks every one for your thoughts!


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## swmnhay

PaMike said:


> I don't know why more guys don't buy single axle day cab tractors. Maybe just a little too specialized, and no 4x4. Local guy has a little single axle freightliner. He can load 20K on the trailer no problem and be legal. He paid way less for the day cab used then any decent diesel pickup. No 4x4 is a big neg but really if you load a trailer heavy and is slick or muddy 4x4 isn't going to pull you out...I guess one of the big negs of a road tractor is you have to have a CDL and you cant fly under the radar. DOT will see you coming...


Problem here with a single ax truck is they are worthless in the mud,snow and ice compared to 4WD.Thats pretty much 1/2 the yr here.LOL.


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## 8350HiTech

Gearclash said:


> This is exactly why I have been thinking MDT. It just seems too easy to get beyond the reasonable capabilities of a light truck. The MDT route intrigues me because there are "crew cab" versions out there that would make it possible to take my family with me, although they are harder to find. There are also 4x4 versions, but again, hard to find.
> 
> Thanks every one for your thoughts!


Yet another of my cousins that I constantly reference is in the livestock hauling business and was tearing up his 4500 (4x4 crew) hauling heavy loads of cows twice a week. It was fully paid for. So he kept it for times where 4x4 is a necessity and bought a little tractor that he now runs most of the time. Depends if you want to be owning/insuring two trucks but it can be a workable solution.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Try Crawford Truck Sales in Aberdeen, SD. They carry Big Crew Cabs and 4wd used trucks a lot of times. Didn't see any on their website but every time I pass by, they are sitting out front. Pretty cool to look at. Give em a call. Crawfordtruck.com


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## PaMike

You pass by SD on a regualar basis from VA? You get around!

I heard those 4x4 trucks ride rougher than rough...


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## NewBerlinBaler

I read on some truck blog site that medium duty 4x4s are very unreliable and should be avoided - especially used ones.

Gary


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## PaCustomBaler

I use a F-450 and gooseneck flatbed for most loads within 200 mile radius. Love the truck, can easily handle up to 30,000lbs but registered as Class 8 Farm Combo (I strongly suggest getting it as "farm", HUGE money saver for registration). Beefed up suspension a little. I'd take the 4x4 over a single axle duals road truck. I can't count how many times I yanked the 4wd lever in on a delivery. Loaded or not, the 4wd always saves my butt. However, use it mostly for pulling hay trailers. It'd ride rougher than hell if I used it as a personal daily driver.

I'm not sure why guys go with tandem dual trailers for hauling hay. Just less payload you can get on the trailer before being overweight, plus that's just more trailer to haul home when you're empty. I have no trouble with my tandem singles trailer, but I put 17.5's on it. Many of yous guys use tandem axle duals for hauling hay?


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## Vol

PaCustomBaler said:


> I'm not sure why guys go with tandem dual trailers for hauling hay. Just less payload you can get on the trailer before being overweight, plus that's just more trailer to haul home when you're empty. I have no trouble with my tandem singles trailer, but I put 17.5's on it. Many of yous guys use tandem axle duals for hauling hay?


One reason for some of us is if you have to drive into a sod field to get to a barn/building etc. or to get loaded, the tandems don't tire mark a field as bad as the singles. Just somewhat better about compaction.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> Problem is, if you need a crew cab or 4WD like me, the truck keeps getting heavier and the payload keeps getting lower.
> You can buy a registration in excess of your trucks rated GCWR a, but then you open yourself up to all kinds of legalities should you get into an accident towing a load beyond the safety capacity of your truck.
> 
> This is exactly why I have been thinking MDT. It just seems too easy to get beyond the reasonable capabilities of a light truck. The MDT route intrigues me because there are "crew cab" versions out there that would make it possible to take my family with me, although they are harder to find. There are also 4x4 versions, but again, hard to find.
> 
> Thanks every one for your thoughts!


Well as I've said. I've had both, the IH4800 was 4WD, but it was a PITA to drive day in and day out. What I like about my 550 is it fits in my garage at my house. I come home feeling less worn out from driving a huge truck all day. MDTs are typically equipped with weenie power-maybe 250hp if you're lucky. Now imagine a truck that weighs 50% less and has 350-400HP. Much more relaxing to drive. More maneuverable. Now add an automatic, more comfy seats, lower step in height, etc. All these factors make for a much less tiring day. 
I for one, would not want to pull a hay trailer with a 210 HP medium duty truck. Some guys like it. I did it with 250HP and air brakes. Seemed ok at first, but after a while, it got tiring. 
If the grass was that much greener on the other side, all hay farmers would be pulling hay trailers with big trucks, but the majority use heavy duty pickups because they can double as a basic vehicle for transportation. A MDT is a tiresome, generally underpowered vehicle to drive. 
Just my humble, but experienced opinion. I'm sure there are many good reasons to own a MDT.


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## haybaler101

Thorim said:


> Hope this helps, the Federal Government sets up the minimum standard that are required for those who need a commercial drivers license, states are given the freedom to add to the minimums...
> 
> A driver needs a CDL if the vehicle meets one of the following definitions of a CMV: (commercial motor vehicle)
> 
> Class A truck Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 26,001 or more pounds (11,793 kg) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds (4536 kg).
> 
> Class B truck Any single vehicle with a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 26,001 or more pounds (11,793 kg), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds (4536 kg) GVWR.


BUT, in Indiana, I can do all of that on an operator license as long as I am farm plated, haul my own commodities, and stay with in 150 miles of home. Plus, with an operator license, it is a lot easier to play "dumb" when stopped and speeding tickets still qualify for deferred prosecution in Indiana.


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> I use a F-450 and gooseneck flatbed for most loads within 200 mile radius. Love the truck, can easily handle up to 30,000lbs but registered as Class 8 Farm Combo (I strongly suggest getting it as "farm", HUGE money saver for registration). Beefed up suspension a little. I'd take the 4x4 over a single axle duals road truck. I can't count how many times I yanked the 4wd lever in on a delivery. Loaded or not, the 4wd always saves my butt. However, use it mostly for pulling hay trailers. It'd ride rougher than hell if I used it as a personal daily driver.
> 
> I'm not sure why guys go with tandem dual trailers for hauling hay. Just less payload you can get on the trailer before being overweight, plus that's just more trailer to haul home when you're empty. I have no trouble with my tandem singles trailer, but I put 17.5's on it. Many of yous guys use tandem axle duals for hauling hay?


Yeah, I'm with you I like the 450/550 series trucks. They're not as bad as some make them out to be. The 4WD is really a necessity for me pulling trailers out of soft fields.

Are you running a Pequea 17.5" single tire/ dual axle?

I really want one, but man are they expensive.

They use the Rockwell American axles....


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## PaCustomBaler

JD3430 said:


> Yeah, I'm with you I like the 450/550 series trucks. They're not as bad as some make them out to be. The 4WD is really a necessity for me pulling trailers out of soft fields.
> 
> Are you running a Pequea 17.5" single tire/ dual axle?
> 
> I really want one, but man are they expensive.
> 
> They use the Rockwell American axles...


We have a '14 BWISE, built over in Chambersburg. Love the trailer to the moon. Another farm bought one at the same time and they love it. Built well, but not overweight that it'll take away from payload weight. We added the upgraded heavy-wall, 17.5 singles. Sliding winch track, deck-over neck, threw a few more lights on...gotta look a little B.A. at least  haha. Here's a pick of it with 300 2nd cut bales on it.





  








2nd Cut grass Schmitt




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PaCustomBaler


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Jan 27, 2015








I see you added the Meyer spreader to your signature. Get a chance to play with it yet?

Vol, I know exactly what you're saying regarding the dual tandem's being able to walk across the sod better...I agree.


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## Vol

Great looking outfit....tell me about the strapping part that is draped just over the top.....is that 2x4's?

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler

Thanks Mike. Yeah each set is a pair of 2x4's. We used to do it hauling on 48' step decks but started using a van trailer now so just started using them on the gooseneck. We get a strap that is torn and cut it up into 18" pieces and just screw it to the boards. It HUGELY helps pull the load together, versus just straps cutting into the bales. On big bales we don't do it obviously, but on small bales it can make a shatty lookin' load pull together nicely.

Few fellas around here will do something similar but put a set of boards in the front, and set of boards in the back, then run two straps the length of the trailer....which works very well if you have a winch mounted on the front of your trailer.


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## JD3430

Pa Custom baler,
What is the GVWR on your BWise trailer?


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## PaCustomBaler

JD3430 said:


> Pa Custom baler,
> What is the GVWR on your BWise trailer?


16800 lbs.

I see you have an Appalachian on your signature. How do you like that? Before we bought our Bwise, a landlord would let us use his 24' App gooseneck for hauling hay.


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## PaMike

I saw on the Bwise site that the guy that founded that company was also a partner in the founding of Bri-Mar trailers. I always thought Bri-Mar was some good stuff...


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## 8350HiTech

PaMike said:


> I saw on the Bwise site that the guy that founded that company was also a partner in the founding of Bri-Mar trailers. I always thought Bri-Mar was some good stuff...


B-wise couldn't compete with Bri-Mar. So they bought them. Then they moved everyone into one ill equipped building and harassed the Bri-Mar guys until they quit or they fired them. Anything built during that transition, I would be concerned about build quality.


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## PaCustomBaler

8350HiTech said:


> B-wise couldn't compete with Bri-Mar. So they bought them. Then they moved everyone into one ill equipped building and harassed the Bri-Mar guys until they quit or they fired them. Anything built during that transition, I would be concerned about build quality.


We have a Bri-mar, built like sh**. Welds cracked, piss poor paint job. Seen high schooler's make a trailer with better integrity.



PaMike said:


> I saw on the Bwise site that the guy that founded that company was also a partner in the founding of Bri-Mar trailers. I always thought Bri-Mar was some good stuff...


Brian Wise (BWise) was formerly with Bri-Mar and they split ways.


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## 8350HiTech

PaCustomBaler said:


> We have a Bri-mar, built like sh**. Welds cracked, piss poor paint job. Seen high schooler's make a trailer with better integrity.
> 
> Brian Wise (BWise) was formerly with Bri-Mar and they split ways.


I'm not saying which is better. Just saying the transition to one company and building involved a lot of infighting and backstabbing and I wouldn't be surprised if some disagreements turned into a missed weld here and there.


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## PaCustomBaler

8350HiTech said:


> I'm not saying which is better. Just saying the transition to one company and building involved a lot of infighting and backstabbing and I wouldn't be surprised if some disagreements turned into a missed weld here and there.


I gotcha, the difference between the two trailers made in the same building is hard to believe.


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## PaMike

I am confused....Bwise bought out Bri-Mar and then relocated them into the same building?


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## 8350HiTech

PaMike said:


> I am confused....Bwise bought out Bri-Mar and then relocated them into the same building?


Yep!


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## PaMike

Wow! sounds "interesting". I could see buying them out and closing them down but why run two parallel operations? Buy Bri-Mar,close it down and just sell the Bwise trailers under both names...

Funny thing is I have heard of Bri-Mar many times but never heard of Bwise till now...


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## PaCustomBaler

It made me hesitant to buy a BWise after having a a bad experience with Bri-mar, but the BWise is a great build and comes with a nice warranty for the trailer, including paint.


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## JD3430

Here's the story I was told:
The owner of BWise used to be the owner of BriMar. He sold Bri Mar to a group of investors 5+ years ago and signed a no compete clause. The investors that bought Bri Mar ran the company into the ground and put it up for sale. wise bought the company back and while waiting for no compete clause to expire, redesigned the trailers and renamed the company BWise. 
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


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## JD3430

What I want to buy is a 30' trailer with 10k axles with single tires. 
Pequea is the only one I know who build such a trailer. It has Rockwell American axles and 17.5" load range J tires (6,000lbs)

I did find a 30' Kauffman with 3 7k axles rated at 25k.

I want a trailer with a 17k payload that doesnt weigh 7-8,000lbs empty.
Pequeas 20k 30 foot trailer only weighs 6k empty. 
With 20% tongue weight, I can achieve a 17-18k payload and be light when empty on return trips.


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## PaMike

Why singe tires? I never had a dual trailer but just assumed they carry the weight better. Are the dual tires that much more of a pain to work on?


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## JD3430

No they add a lot of extra weight. 4 more tires & 4 steel wheels. Probably another 400lbs.


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## PaCustomBaler

JD3430 said:


> No they add a lot of extra weight. 4 more tires & 4 steel wheels. Probably another 400lbs.


Spot on about that extra weight, that's why I stay away.

Check out those Featherlight or Eby gooseneck flatbeds. Saw the Eby at Keystone Farm Show, very nice looking! Tandem duals though, I'd be interested in knowing the unladen weight to see if they're lighter than a tandem single wheel trailer of equivalent length. Hate to think what something like that would go for!! 15k or so is my guess!


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## PaMike

Man, You guys must really be pushing the limit of GVW if your worried about 400 lbs. I put a 7K skidsteer on a 10K trailer and I get a little nervous...

Do you guys cross scales before your trip to make sure you are legal?


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## PaCustomBaler

Ehhh about half the time I do just to see what I'm at, but I sell by the bale so I don't need to scale everytime.

JD3430, I hear ya about the 30' trailer. We went back and forth on a 24' and a 28'. After some math and looking at empty trailer weights, we decided on a 24' with the hay hauler deck. Even with the 24' lower deck and 8' upper deck, I can easily overload what I'm registered for. Are you hauling mostly round bales with your trailer?


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Ehhh about half the time I do just to see what I'm at, but I sell by the bale so I don't need to scale everytime.
> 
> JD3430, I hear ya about the 30' trailer. We went back and forth on a 24' and a 28'. After some math and looking at empty trailer weights, we decided on a 24' with the hay hauler deck. Even with the 24' lower deck and 8' upper deck, I can easily overload what I'm registered for. Are you hauling mostly round bales with your trailer?


Yes, and I'm constantly on a scale. 
My goal is to carry 20-22 4x5 round bales. 
To do that I need a 30' trailer (6 rows of 2 on bottom and 5 rows of 2 on top). 
I also think a 30' trailer would be just enough for a tractor & loader plus a pull type bush hog. 
So rough math: 20 RBs x 825 is 16,500. 
Empty trailer is say 7,000 lbs
Truck with all my junk is 9,500lbs. 
So that's a minimum of 33,000lbs, which is my entire registered weight. 
22 round bales is 34,5000 lbs. 1,500lbs over my tag. 
I could go down to a 58" bale for my better quality hay and probably be OK on weight...probably 800/bale. 
And those better bales are sold by the bale.


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## Thorim

haybaler101 said:


> BUT, in Indiana, I can do all of that on an operator license as long as I am farm plated, haul my own commodities, and stay with in 150 miles of home. Plus, with an operator license, it is a lot easier to play "dumb" when stopped and speeding tickets still qualify for deferred prosecution in Indiana.


I had the honor of living in the fine state of Indiana for several years and loved and enjoyed my time there for the most part. The people in Indiana are some the most friendliest mellow people I have ever met. The Dept of Motor Vehicles on the other hand well... I have had a CDL A since they became mandatory way back when. When I went to switch my Michigan license to a Indiana license the DMV told me I would have 10 points on my license instead of the 4 I had had in Michigan. I asked how that was possible, had they ever heard of the U.S. Constitution and the part that says that each must except the court decisions of another state, civic's 101. Long story short I consulted several lawyer and all agreed I was right and that I could ligate that case and win, but what it would take in time (years) and money (100,000 if not more) it was easier to take the 50 dollar defensive driving course..... Every state varies on what it requires, and what leeway it give farmers some more lenient then others


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## PaMike

Jd- Your only pushing 850lb per bale on 5 ft bales? I had a bunch of second cut 58" bales that crossed the scales at 1000 lb even. I have only weighted my bales a few times. Most times they were 950-1000 lbs. I am running a BR740A.You might be able to turn your tension up and get more lb per bale which equals a fuller load...


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## JD3430

Nope. I don't want to make a heavier bale. People will barely pay me $75 for a 825lb bale. Competition down the road makes a 750lb bale and also gets $75. 
Why would I make an even heavier bale? I tell customers my bales weigh more than most others and they couldn't care less. 
Now my mushroom hay bales might be 875-900 because they might be as much as 25% moisture.


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## PaMike

I was thinking you were talking mushroom hay....
I am with you on the good hay. I dont raise my prices, I just make my bales smaller...

I make the 1000 lb bales for my personal feeding. Less bales to move the better


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## MT hayer

On this small truck issue, there are some good points brought up. Biggest thing I have found is the medium size usually are under powered for what they will carry and or haul. Minimum 300 hp. I would recommend the 8.3 Cummins, the 11.1 Detroit, or similar. A 3126 and such just don't have the balls to get any speed. The other big issue is the gear ratio. You have to look high and wide to find one that has 4.10 or lower. I would recommend looking and getting one with the over drive also.

I used to have a 450 ford. It was a 2 wheel drive and certainly had enough brakes to stop what was behind it. I sold it for a 4 wheel drive 3500 dodge. Looking back I wish I could have kept the ford too. Majority of the time the two wheel drive is fine. A 4 wheel drive costs more to run for sure. I would be parking the dodge and keeping unnecessary miles off it. So I fully agree with the two part, the two wheel drive being the newer one.

As far as the single axle truck goes, just skip the medium and go big. Get one with air ride, engine brake, ac, locking axle, and minimum 350hp. Might run you less money even. When you go to build the bed, put the ball just behind the axle and down in the frame so it leverages more weight on the rear axle and your ball will be the same height as your pickup so you can switch back and forth. If you are concerned about traction just get a set of rims custom made so the tires cover the wheel studs from rocks and run singles. Then run the air pressure at 70 or so because you will never have that much weight on it with a goose neck. I should figure out how to put a picture of ours on here. All these pickups these days will pull way more then they should!


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## JD3430

If you want real cheap, get a hi mile sleeper cab. I see them for $5,000 or even less sometimes.


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## Gearclash

JD, was your International 4800 spring ride or air? Was thinking that would make a real difference on how enjoyable driving a MDT would be. Had a Freightshaker FL70 single axle and trailer on the yard here last week to deliver hay. Air ride, but had a Cat 3126 and an auto.


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## PaCustomBaler

JD3430 said:


> Yes, and I'm constantly on a scale.
> My goal is to carry 20-22 4x5 round bales.
> To do that I need a 30' trailer (6 rows of 2 on bottom and 5 rows of 2 on top).
> I also think a 30' trailer would be just enough for a tractor & loader plus a pull type bush hog.
> So rough math: 20 RBs x 825 is 16,500.
> Empty trailer is say 7,000 lbs
> Truck with all my junk is 9,500lbs.
> So that's a minimum of 33,000lbs, which is my entire registered weight.
> 22 round bales is 34,5000 lbs. 1,500lbs over my tag.
> I could go down to a 58" bale for my better quality hay and probably be OK on weight...probably 800/bale.
> And those better bales are sold by the bale.


I agree, sell by the bale.

I carry 20 3x3 mid-size squares and I'm at 26,000. Trailer empty weight is 5k lbs. At 300 small squares, I'm at 30,000 lbs.


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## JD3430

I just found a 28' Pequea 20k trailer. 
It's 1/3rd the price of a new one. Looks to be in decent condition.
At 28', I can't carry 6 rows of 5' round bales on the bottom. Only 5 rows. So max load is only 18 round bales.  
Talk about frustrating......


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## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> I just found a 28' Pequea 20k trailer.
> It's 1/3rd the price of a new one. Looks to be in decent condition.
> At 28', I can't carry 6 rows of 5' round bales on the bottom. Only 5 rows. So max load is only 18 round bales.
> Talk about frustrating......


The beaver tail would make it more difficult but 30' of bales can usually be strapped to 28' of trailer quite easily.


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## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> The beaver tail would make it more difficult but 30' of bales can usually be strapped to 28' of trailer quite easily.


If its a flatbed, sure.
I don't know about that with a beavertail....
I had a tough time jamming 5 rows of 5' bales onto a 24' beavertail trailer.
I was thinking about using the ramps on this 28' as a "backstop" for the 6th row of bales. I did same thing with my 24'
Maybe I could fab-up a longer strap for the ramps and have them stand up at say 45*. then then the final row of bales would fit easier.
I'm also considering 58" bales. Everyone is telling me its a lot easier on the baler.

Hmmmm....


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## PaCustomBaler

Nice trailer mate, it's a shame the dovetail doesn't pop up.

A buddy of mine uses the ramps on his gooseneck dovetail flatbed as a backstop for the last set of bales, seems to work just fine.

You could also weld up a 8'x8' hay hauler deck on top of the goose for more bed space.


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## 8350HiTech

Or you could switch it over to wedge shaped, fold down ramps. Or you could just build a wooden wedge to negate the tail, it might be lighter than wedge ramps but more inconvenient.


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## Vol

JD, I have used chain to hold the ramps at the angle that I needed for round bales....very convenient.

Regards, Mike


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## MT hayer

I would certainly think 18 round bales would be enough load for a pickup! These are the 4ft wide bales?


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## JD3430

I'm using an F-550, not a pickup.


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## Lostin55

Reading the in's and outs of "legal loads" and gvwr is giving me a headache.

I will get scolded for this but around the house I have always followed the "If it fits, it ships theory". I do know that I have run well over 40K total on a 1 ton and 25' gooseneck tandem single. Obviously slowly, and not far, but I have done it.

That being said, the times might be changing. I encountered a highway bull year before last that had it in his mind to nail me to the wall. I was empty, with a F350 crew cab 4x4 single rear wheel and a 25' tandem single trailer. It had 2- 7k axles under it. He tried every which way to say that it was rated over 26K and required a Class A CDL. We both learned something that day. He learned that 2 7k axle do not add up to 26k and I learned not to piss off the highway bull.

Edit-

Then again, there is a pic on here somewhere of my Cummins and a tandem Dual 24' trailer hauling a 1069 NH stacker with a full cement box on it that I hauled from Madras, Or over 900 miles to the house. We were over width, over length and pretty sure overweight. Judging by wind resistance, we were almost over height too. :huh:


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## Thorim

They say it isn't illegal until you get caught, they also say ignorance of the law is not an excuse so... So many petty laws that aren't uniformly enforced makes one want to scream


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## JD3430

Pequea sold.
I think I'm going with a new Big Tex. 
First I have to see if I can sell a kidney.....


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## rajela

Plenty of good trailers that are better built and cheaper the Big TEX.


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## JD3430

rajela said:


> Plenty of good trailers that are better built and cheaper the Big TEX.


Yeah, name 'em. I'm always open to other brands. 
I see Big Tex when I'm out on the highways hauling all the time. Looks like a nice trailer. 
I like their monster ramps and the way they us hi tensile steel.


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## haybaler101

Looked at a beautiful trailer at NFMS. 25+5 with flip over ramps, dual tandem, all aluminum construction, electric over hydraulic brakes and jacks, built by EBY, and yours for $27,500!


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## Bonfire

haybaler101 said:


> Looked at a beautiful trailer at NFMS. 25+5 with flip over ramps, dual tandem, all aluminum construction, electric over hydraulic brakes and jacks, built by EBY, and yours for $27,500!


Yea, how bout that. I saw it in Raleigh.

Gobob Pipe makes a good trailer.


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## JD3430

Gotta get Er dun under 10K.
Big Tex 30', high tensile, monster ramps, 23,000 GVWR and 48" Dexter spread axle is $9,999 with all taxes and fees included. Also only weighs 6,600 empty.


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## rajela

A1 Custom Trailers

Legend

Here is a couple of quality trailers that can be custom built and there are others that are as good as Big Tex without he big price tag.


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## JD3430

Legend:
Great price, but I'm 1,500 miles from where those trailers are located. Part of the added price I pay for big tex or any Texas built trailer is shipping. 
Does not have 48" Dexter spread axle like big tex
Does not have monster ramps like big tex
I'm not sure if they use hi tensile steel. Big tex is hi tensile.

Pretty sure the shipping from Texas, the monster ramps, the spread axle and the hi tensile would put the legend pretty close to Big tex price ($10,000 includes tax, tags, registration, etc.)

A1 
Looks like a good trailer. Has spread axle, but no monster ramps. Not sure if hi tensile. 
Monster ramps and shipping would add $2,500 to the price of either of those trailers. Which would put them at $10,000. Then add 6% sales tax ($600) tags, registration, etc probably another $400.

I'm not brand loyal to big tex at all. I'm open to any brand, but so far it's the best trailer for the money I can find in PA. It's in stock and the empty weight is only 6500 lb. 
I'm actually one of the few who wants a lighter trailer for the fuel savings and greater payload.
I can get a stripped big tex without monster ramps for ~$9,000 with shipping to PA.


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## rajela

They all use Hi Stensile Steel that is just something that BT throws out there like it is something super special. Not sure what advantage the super ramps or what ever they are would be I have a hard enough time getting the regular ramps folded back up..
I would check around your area and see what trailer manufactures are close by. They will all custom build you what ever you want.


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## JD3430

rajela said:


> They all use Hi Stensile Steel that is just something that BT throws out there like it is something super special. Not sure what advantage the super ramps or what ever they are would be I have a hard enough time getting the regular ramps folded back up..
> I would check around your area and see what trailer manufactures are close by. They will all custom build you what ever you want.


The monster ramps are each 1/2 the width of the trailer. When folded down, they make a full width ramp with a safe, wide approach. When folded flat, they make the trailer a 100% flat deck. They are spring assisted to the point that a small person can easily flip them. They can also be folded halfway up
They add about $1,500 to the cost of a typical trailer.
When I add monster ramps, transportation and tax to your trailers, they go over $10,000
So Im at the same price as Big Tex plus/minus a few bucks.


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## rajela

Well looks like you have it all figured out. Good luck.


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## JD3430

rajela said:


> Well looks like you have it all figured out. Good luck.


I'm still looking. I appreciate your suggestions!


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## ANewman

Might look at these. They are in KY. I had a single wheel tandem rated at 16500 lbs. They are well made trailers. 
http://www.gatormade.com


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## JD3430

ANewman said:


> Might look at these. They are in KY. I had a single wheel tandem rated at 16500 lbs. They are well made trailers.
> http://www.gatormade.com


I did. Well built trailers, but way too heavy empty. Don't care for the banner size "GATOR" sticker on the gooseneck, either.


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## PaMike

JD3430 said:


> I did. Well built trailers, but way too heavy empty. Don't care for the banner size "GATOR" sticker on the gooseneck, either.


I have seen those huge gator stickers and I hate them too. They look aweful!


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## ANewman

JD3430 said:


> I did. Well built trailers, but way too heavy empty. Don't care for the banner size "GATOR" sticker on the gooseneck, either.


I'm not a fan either. I think you can order them without the banner sticker.


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## JD3430

I think a little too much emphasis is placed on how much steel gets thrown into a trailer. I understand why, people want their stuff overbuilt. However, a lot of trailer miles are empty. And an overbuilt trailer is expensive to tow empty. When loaded it has decreased payload. 
In comparing 30' dual tandem goosenecks, I found the empty weight could range for 6600 lbs to 7700 lbs. that's a lot of extra steel. 
I haul a bit on the side for guys and about 5-600 tons of my own hay and I haul straw from wholesaler to end buyer. 
I don't want an overbuilt trailer. Adequate build is just fine. An excavator needs an overbuilt trailer. 
IMHO, hay does not require a overbuilt trailer. I don't want the weight of a Gatorade or PJ. Their 30' trailers weigh ~7,500lbs empty.
Big Tex and Kaufmann are under 7,000 lbs empty.


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## rajela

If your using the JP trailer website to get your weights then you need to notice that the weights are for a straight deck trailer with pull out 8' ramps not a dove tail with fold over ramps.

I can see why you are wanting to get more loaded weight but when your looking around look at the used trailers that are still rolling and the ones that are ready for the bone yard. I think you might notice that the heavy built trailer will be with you longer and carries a better resale value.

Also keep in mind that the weight posted on the trailer website are only estimates and they may be heavier than advertised.


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## Gearclash

JD, have you looked at Delta's flatbed trailers? They used to have sub par wiring and lights but are a lot better now. Not pushing them, just curious.

About trailer empty weight, I won't believe it unless I scaled myself. Back in '09 I finished building my 20' x 101" flat deck GN, beaver tail with twin ramps that cover full width. I built it with an emphasis on being light, and it still showed right at 3500 lbs when I weighed it.


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## PaCustomBaler

JD, just open that wallet of yours and buy a Eby or Featherlite gooseneck! lol!


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> JD, just open that wallet of yours and buy a Eby or Featherlite gooseneck! lol!


Maybe in my next life! 
I really want a Pequea G-20, but at $13,000, it's way too much for me.


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## PaCustomBaler

Ouch, yeah that's a tad too salty. I'm guessing you checked out Appalachian/Kaufman trailers up in Manheim?


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Ouch, yeah that's a tad too salty. I'm guessing you checked out Appalachian/Kaufman trailers up in Manheim?


Yeah, Im not liking those Lippert and Alko axles. The cheaper trailers use them.
I kind of like Dexter, but they have had their share of problems.
Best is Rockwell American Axles, but Pequea is only brand I know of that uses them on their G-20.


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## PaCustomBaler

Copy. From what you're saying, looks like Pequea is only one to fit the bid, as far as things you're looking for. I'll keep an eye out for ya if I see one.


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## PaMike

Appalachian Trailers in Manheim now also sells Kaufman?? I didnt know that. That must be a new thing.

There really is a big range in trailers. Some are designed in 3D cad where stress analysis can be done to insure the steel is sized properly and some are designed with the "that looks strong enough" design system...

I would agree with JD that hauling hay is going to be one of the easier loads to haul. Uniform weight over the entire trailer sure helps alot.


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## PaCustomBaler

Kaufman makes Appalachian trailers from what I understand. Anyone else confirm?


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Kaufman makes Appalachian trailers from what I understand. Anyone else confirm?


If they do, its a recent thing.
Kaufman's down in NC. Appalachian is made in aHYa


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Copy. From what you're saying, looks like Pequea is only one to fit the bid, as far as things you're looking for. I'll keep an eye out for ya if I see one.


It would be the perfect trailer for MY needs. However, its probably going to be a Big Tex. Low empty weight, low price, monster ramps, spread axle. Whats not to like?


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## sethd11

JD3430 said:


> It would be the perfect trailer for MY needs. However, its probably going to be a Big Tex. Low empty weight, low price, monster ramps, spread axle. Whats not to like?


The price!


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## deadmoose

sethd11 said:


> The price!


How is your project Deere coming along?


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## sethd11

Slow. Depressingly so. I have been chasing wiring for at least 40 hours. Saved myself 2000$ for a new harness though. Whoever owned this at one point hacked the wiring so bad the 3 point was raised and lowered with a Chevy window switch. I'm sitting at about $10,800 total cost with all the parts from John Deere and the initial investment plus shipping. It runs extremely well. Front wheel assist works as well. Had to have FIL weld a small crack in block and replace oil cooler from freezing damage. Other than that the dealer offered me 25k trade in it on it last week. Other than the horrific paint it's actually a really nice tractor with 4796 hours. Everything is relatively tight. Oh and the three point didn't work because the hitch control computer was bad. Thanks for asking. I wish we had some John Deere mechanics around here I could ask questions though!


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## IH 1586

sethd11 said:


> Slow. Depressingly so. I have been chasing wiring for at least 40 hours. Saved myself 2000$ for a new harness though. Whoever owned this at one point hacked the wiring so bad the 3 point was raised and lowered with a Chevy window switch. I'm sitting at about $10,800 total cost with all the parts from John Deere and the initial investment plus shipping. It runs extremely well. Front wheel assist works as well. Had to have FIL weld a small crack in block and replace oil cooler from freezing damage. Other than that the dealer offered me 25k trade in it on it last week. Other than the horrific paint it's actually a really nice tractor with 4796 hours. Everything is relatively tight. Oh and the three point didn't work because the hitch control computer was bad. Thanks for asking. I wish we had some John Deere mechanics around here I could ask questions though!


I must have missed the post, what model Deere is your project? I have 2 used tractors I bought and the wiring is the same way.


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## sethd11

John Deere 7410 open station. Was in rougher shape than I wanted, but so what. Deadmoose found it on craigslist. I bought it with a cracked block and what I thought was a bad motor. I did not expect the wiring nightmare that it was. Price was fair for the condition though. Should be done with it soon. Probably just trade it in and be 14k ahead


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## PaCustomBaler

JD3430 said:


> It would be the perfect trailer for MY needs. However, its probably going to be a Big Tex. Low empty weight, low price, monster ramps, spread axle. Whats not to like?


Gotcha. I thought you were looking for slide-in ramps? Just looked at Big Tex website, that 20GN trailer...looks like a nice trailer. Is that the one you're looking at? From the pictures it looks strong but not too overly heavy. The dovetail would be too low for me, would bottom out on a lot of barn bridges and scalping back sod.


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## Gearclash

sethd11, I have a friend that is a JD mechanic. He is no longer working for Deere so he might be willing to give you some help. PM me and maybe I can put the two of you in communication.


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Gotcha. I thought you were looking for slide-in ramps? Just looked at Big Tex website, that 20GN trailer...looks like a nice trailer. Is that the one you're looking at? From the pictures it looks strong but not too overly heavy. The dovetail would be too low for me, would bottom out on a lot of barn bridges and scalping back sod.


I'm looking at the 22GN model. 
That's a good point on the dovetail I hadn't considered.
However, my previous Appalachian gooseneck was a dovetail and I don't recall having problems with bottoming out.


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## PaCustomBaler

I copy. I guess it's all in where you load at and other applications. I got my BWISE with the adjustable, mechanical dovetail so I can keep it a straight-deck for hauling hay, but lower it down for hauling equipment. I've yet to let it down and haul a piece of equipment on it. Heck I think her family is the only ones who've ever put the dovetail down to put a piece of machinery on it...I've only every hauled hay with it!


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## Vol

Curious as to what folks opinions are on tilt bed trailers....saw a 8x20 very reasonable.....14K gross.

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler

I never used one. I just they'd be handy for loading/unloading equipment, but I doubt I would use it for unloading small squares of hay. Maybe only use for me with hay would be to unload mid-sized squares at amish farms.


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## JD3430

Vol said:


> Curious as to what folks opinions are on tilt bed trailers....saw a 8x20 very reasonable.....14K gross.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Manual or hydraulic?


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> Manual or hydraulic?


Manual as far as I know.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Manual is nice as its more reliable, cheaper, no batteries, etc.
Can be a bit adventuresome backing a trailer off one, though.


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## Bonfire

Vol said:


> Curious as to what folks opinions are on tilt bed trailers....saw a 8x20 very reasonable.....14K gross.
> 
> Regards, Mike


You talking about one of those that has like 4' of fixed deck and the 16' tilts over center? The ones I've seen have a shock or cylinder under the tilt to hold it in the tilt position as you drive on it. I like them. You just have to work around the fenders because they stick up over the deck.


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## Vol

Bonfire said:


> You talking about one of those that has like 4' of fixed deck and the 16' tilts over center? The ones I've seen have a shock or cylinder under the tilt to hold it in the tilt position as you drive on it. I like them. You just have to work around the fenders because they stick up over the deck.


Yes that is how it operates Bonfire, but it is a deckover.....no fenders.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55

The few times that I have used one they worked as designed and were pretty handy.


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## central va farmer

I would look at hudson trailers. They are more expensive than big tex but are solid as a rock. We have several and they are top quality. It's like everything in life, you get what you pay for.


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## JD3430

central va farmer said:


> I would look at hudson trailers. They are more expensive than big tex but are solid as a rock. We have several and they are top quality. It's like everything in life, you get what you pay for.


I had a Hudson backhoe trailer, it was a good one.
I really don't think a hay trailer has to be super heavy duty. I think "medium duty" is plenty for hay and an occasional equipment haul. 
Need to save $$ for more equipment!!,

Kind of like Kubota tractors. They're about a medium duty tractor, but if you only use them for hay or batwing mowing, why buy a super heavy duty tractor and waste money?


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## PaCustomBaler

I would think a Hudson would be some severe overkill for hauling hay!


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## central va farmer

I put 18 3×4 big Sq bales on a 24 ft hudson gooseneck. Weight is around 10.5 to 11 tons trailer is a 10 ton trailer. 15 4×6 bales and go all over but I have no cracks or any metal fatigue. I've replaced under carriage one time but main frame is in perfect shape. We run ours all over and we all know how interstate highway is. I 95 is in worse shape than my farm roads lol. I just would rather have to much than not enough.


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## crbearden

A good buy on trucks can be had by buying old Fire Department vehicles. There ar ea lot of 4WD and Twin Screw out there with crew cabs. I have gone a long way through snow with a Twin Screw fire truck. It had a 427 & 13 spd, and when we pulled the governor off of it, it would run 95.. I brought it back to OK from NJ ( a long trip )


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