# Advice on buying a Big square baler



## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Been awhile since Ive been here, hope all you guys had a good year. I didn't have as good of year as I hoped, but a little better than expected.

Anyway, got the OK today from the bank to buy a big square. Im wondering what is considered "getting up there in bales" as far as bale count on a machine. I will be pulling this with a JD 4455 FWA, with quite a few weights. I know this is a little undersize, but as of right now, its just the best I can do. Im still a new young guy. Just bought all of my father in laws equipment from him, and I simply cant afford to get a new tractor. I intend on moving up, and sooner rather than later, but it is what it is. What do you guys recommend? I have a Massy and NH dealer within a reasonable distance from me. Also, what to look for would be of great help to me. What indicates something is wearing funny, too much, just right, ect. Also, Im not buying one without a preservative applicator on it. Nows my chance to get it, without having to cough up a ton out of pocket, and I know its very helpful. Any advice would be appreciated and wonderful. Thanks!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> Been awhile since Ive been here, hope all you guys had a good year. I didn't have as good of year as I hoped, but a little better than expected.
> 
> Anyway, got the OK today from the bank to buy a big square. Im wondering what is considered "getting up there in bales" as far as bale count on a machine. I will be pulling this with a JD 4455 FWA, with quite a few weights. I know this is a little undersize, but as of right now, its just the best I can do. Im still a new young guy. Just bought all of my father in laws equipment from him, and I simply cant afford to get a new tractor. I intend on moving up, and sooner rather than later, but it is what it is. What do you guys recommend? I have a Massy and NH dealer within a reasonable distance from me. Also, what to look for would be of great help to me. What indicates something is wearing funny, too much, just right, ect. Also, Im not buying one without a preservative applicator on it. Nows my chance to get it, without having to cough up a ton out of pocket, and I know its very helpful. Any advice would be appreciated and wonderful. Thanks!


Knew I haven't seen your posts in a while rbaustian....glad to have you back. I wish I could tell you about them big squares but I ain't even never seen one up close up until the sunbelt ag expo this year, for some silly reason they had it there......what about duals for the 4455, might help out in the meantime and you could possibly pick em up on the ....well, better than retail price 

Anyway good to hear you're still among the living, take care and hoping for better days.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> Been awhile since Ive been here, hope all you guys had a good year. I didn't have as good of year as I hoped, but a little better than expected.
> 
> Anyway, got the OK today from the bank to buy a big square. Im wondering what is considered "getting up there in bales" as far as bale count on a machine. I will be pulling this with a JD 4455 FWA, with quite a few weights. I know this is a little undersize, but as of right now, its just the best I can do. Im still a new young guy. Just bought all of my father in laws equipment from him, and I simply cant afford to get a new tractor. I intend on moving up, and sooner rather than later, but it is what it is. What do you guys recommend? I have a Massy and NH dealer within a reasonable distance from me. Also, what to look for would be of great help to me. What indicates something is wearing funny, too much, just right, ect. Also, Im not buying one without a preservative applicator on it. Nows my chance to get it, without having to cough up a ton out of pocket, and I know its very helpful. Any advice would be appreciated and wonderful. Thanks!


If tractordata.com is correct on your tractor that should be ok for pulling a big square. That is if you are getting a 3x3. What size are you looking to get into? Since you are looking into used ones I would suggest staying with MF or Hesston rather then NH. I've read a few things on haytalk as well as other places that Hesston/MF is a bit better then NH. However check out Krone balers also. Personally I would be leary of any baler over 30,000 bales depending on how old the baler is. But that is me.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Honestly, 30000 bales is just getting broke in. My custom baler has somewhere in the neighborhood of 65k on one baler and probably 40k on the other two balers. If you have both a MF and a New Holland dealer closeby, either is a good option as far as slightly used balers. Hesston's 7433/7434/7444 and the newer MF and Challenger really can't be beat as far as serviceability and maintenance. If you choose NH, do not buy a D2000 or the 590/595. Go straight for the BB series as there is lots of mods (that Hesston had 20 years prior, but that's neither here nor there).

Hesstons all the way back to the 4700 are very good balers. I'm kinda biased towards Hesston for small and large square bales, but NH for rounds..

And DO NOT, repeat DO NOT buy a JD 100. I've said it before and I'll say it again, those are not balers. They are hay compressors that sometimes throw twine around the bale...


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Haha thanks devil! Been living life with a 4 and 7 yr old, so that's kept me away from looking at hay stuff haha...Im not sure what size im looking at. For some reason I feel like theres mostly 3x3's in this part of the country. I tried ALL summer to get someone to bale with a big square for me, and the closest one is 45 miles from me. So on top of everything else, that tells me there HAS to be a lot of work for one here. Had a guy stop by the field one afternoon that used to have one. Said it was getting so bad that he started charging $1/min drive time to and from the field. Said that guys didn't even bat an eye. Im leaning more towards the Hesston/MF myself actually. I know that Hesston has been doing this for a long, LONG time. I set my upper limit on 60K for one. Seems like I can find one fully loaded with 25K bales +/- for about 50k or so...I would assume the tandom axle balers are better than single? Thanks for the advice!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> Haha thanks devil! Been living life with a 4 and 7 yr old, so that's kept me away from looking at hay stuff haha...Im not sure what size im looking at. For some reason I feel like theres mostly 3x3's in this part of the country. I tried ALL summer to get someone to bale with a big square for me, and the closest one is 45 miles from me. So on top of everything else, that tells me there HAS to be a lot of work for one here. Had a guy stop by the field one afternoon that used to have one. Said it was getting so bad that he started charging $1/min drive time to and from the field. Said that guys didn't even bat an eye. Im leaning more towards the Hesston/MF myself actually. I know that Hesston has been doing this for a long, LONG time. I set my upper limit on 60K for one. Seems like I can find one fully loaded with 25K bales +/- for about 50k or so...I would assume the tandom axle balers are better than single? Thanks for the advice!


There was another thread on haytalk just in the last couple of days about tandem vs single Most guys seemed to like tandem. I have single, but I think I would rather have tandem. I think.....Though besides the bouncing when driving on the road faster single is no problem to me.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

If you are unsure about bale size, here's what I recommend

-If you are hauling long distance (50+ miles), definitely spring for a 3x4. Get almost 15% more weight on a truck vs 4x4. And I like mine because it is the fastest big baler, at least for Hesston.

-If you aren't going too far and you and your buyer have the equipment to handle them, get a 4x4. Fewer bales to move and they stack great.

-If you are trying to get smaller operations (like horsey people) to buy 'em and all they have is a little 60hp tractor with a loader, get a 3x3 for the lighter weight bales. But be warned: every trucker I know and all the dairies around here HATE 3x3 because they are unstable stacking.

As far as brand, I would only look at Hesston and Krone. New Hollands BB series MIGHT be ok (now that all of Hesstons patents have expired and they can rob from them), but I do not know. Everyone who's anyone around here uses Hesston. I have heard good things about Krone, but I have never seen one run. The closest dealer is like 200 miles from me.

Bale count, I'd stay under 50k. 35k would be better. Singles vs tandems, get the tandems.

Here's what I know about shopping for a used Hesston machine. If you are only baling alfalfa, you will be in great shape with a 4790 / 4900 / 4910. And you usually can find them for a deal now that everyone has figured out how good the 2100 series is. And you will be fine using that JD 4455 to pull any of them. I pulled my 4900 for years with a Deere 4450 and it did fine. Don't get me wrong, its none-too-big of a tractor, but it will get the job done. FYI, I hate baling with duals on the tractor 'cause its hard to get corners or do small fields.

IF you can swing it, the 2100 (aka 7400) series Hesstons are a revolution vs the older models. Ground speed, reliablity, serviceablity, and technology have all been greatly improved (and the older models are good balers). And if you are baling a lot of forage like oats/wheat/sudan/cornstalks/grass, try to save for a 2100 series. They are head and shoulders above the older models for these crops. However, a 2170 or 2190 would probably be too much machine for your 4455. I wouldn't reccomend anything smaller than a Deere 4755/4760 for a 2170. Even bigger for a 2190.

Like stack em up said don't buy a Deere 100. And you can add the NH 2000. Both are fates worse than death.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Hey thanks for all the advice! I was leaning towards the Hesston, but after reading on what you have to say, Im almost dead set on a Hesston. I called the local dealer and spoke with the service manager, and he said that they haven't really worked on any yet. Gave me the number to another dealer that he said does. Problem is, that's about 70 miles from me. So, I think Im gonna stick with the local guy, and we might go through some growing pains together. His small baler guy is retiring this year, and has been training some of the other guys on bales, knotters, ect so they will have a few guys that are serviceable. I know I want some sort of a preservative system already on it. I see a lot with the liquid, and a lot with the powder stsyems. Which is better? I would think the liquid? This is a huge jump for me, its a lot of money for a young guy starting out, but seems like I need to make this jump. I spoke with my father in law, and he wants to rent me some more ground now, so on top of my own, I would think the custom market should catch like wild fire this year.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

*Lookin at a 2002 4790 with the automatic applicator on it, with about 17,000 bales on it now, for 59,000. Baler has been completely gone through, and is field ready.*


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> *Lookin at a 2002 4790 with the automatic applicator on it, with about 17,000 bales on it now, for 59,000. Baler has been completely gone through, and is field ready.*


Quick question. You've probably let it be known in other posts in the past, but I can't remember. Do you have loaders and truck/trailer to pick up the large squares from the field and haul them to where ever? You also might want to consider an accumulator for any large square baler you find.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I have a 25 ft gooseneck, and a JD 5055e with a loader on it. Bought it when I was feeding cattle to pull my feed wagon, but now that Im no longer feeding cattle, Im thinking of getting a bobcat on tracks for loading....Ive thought about the accumulator. Im of the thought right now that if it has one with it, great. If not, Ill have to use it this way for now, and get one next year if all goes well. Ill be pretty extended out as it is after buying all my father in laws equiptment plus this lol....Its not easy being a young guy starting out, but lucky for me, I have a father in law that's willing to help me out.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> I have a 25 ft gooseneck, and a JD 5055e with a loader on it. Bought it when I was feeding cattle to pull my feed wagon, but now that Im no longer feeding cattle, Im thinking of getting a bobcat on tracks for loading....Ive thought about the accumulator. Im of the thought right now that if it has one with it, great. If not, Ill have to use it this way for now, and get one next year if all goes well. Ill be pretty extended out as it is after buying all my father in laws equiptment plus this lol....Its not easy being a young guy starting out, but lucky for me, I have a father in law that's willing to help me out.


It's going to be slow going with a 25 goose and a loader getting them out of the field. I did that my first year with the big square. Stacking takes longer then it will take to bale anything. What I did my first year is had a 3 point ball hitch made for the tractor that I could use to pull the trailer around. Then just drop the trailer in the field while loading it. I never locked the gooseneck latch. Just left it loose. Pick up the trailer when done loading with the 3 point and pull it to the barn. Drop the trailer unload then start over. Of course I was never pulling hay more the 1/2 mile to home. But still it took forever.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

X2 on the accumulator (or a bale wagon). Fetching bales from all over creation (even if you have a second person to pull a trailer around) is not my idea of fun.

And $60,000 for a 4790 seems pretty steep to me. I think you can find something in real good shape in the $40K range.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> X2 on the accumulator (or a bale wagon). Fetching bales from all over creation (even if you have a second person to pull a trailer around) is not my idea of fun.
> 
> And $60,000 for a 4790 seems pretty steep to me. I think you can find something in real good shape in the $40K range.....


Even with the accumulator it's slow. I had one when I was using my gooseneck. So I can only imagine how slow it would be without an accumulator. I would load 24 bales on my 25 foot gooseneck. It would take an hour to load and unload those 24. I could have done 27, but I did't want to have to strap.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I almost pulled the trigger on a 3 by 3 last winter. If are going to loan the moneycheck everything out the payments for a high end used Baler we're just about the same as a new Baler. When I went to look at used balers the guys told me how you'll spend a hundred twenty five thousand plus another $25,000 of options before you pull a new baler out the door. Last year the dealers around here had some leftovers brand new sitting on the lot for like 83k..


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> I almost pulled the trigger on a 3 by 3 last winter. If are going to loan the moneycheck everything out the payments for a high end used Baler we're just about the same as a new Baler. When I went to look at used balers the guys told me how you'll spend a hundred twenty five thousand plus another $25,000 of options before you pull a new baler out the door. Last year the dealers around here had some leftovers brand new sitting on the lot for like 83k..


I agree. You should probably at least ask about a new one. Especially if equipment sales are slowing down you might be able to get a great deal. There might even be some 2013s out there brand new.


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

I am not a Deere guy, but never get rid of the 4455. Bulletproof machine.

Never by a 3 by 3 baler. 3 by 4 is best. 4 by 4 good but you better be using a machine with some junk in the trunk and your customers will also need to heed loader size. 3 by 3 bales stack like marbles. At row 4 iffy, row 5 scary. What happens when bales fall through wall?

You need much larger machine than you think or rated, especially given hills and pulling accumulator. Case IH 4 by 4 baler (new) broke PTO's in a Case IH 180 and a 220.

We still run round baler, but have studied big squares. This is the advice of our friends who do run them.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Never buy a 3x3 baler? That's not very good advice. Buy the baler that your market will allow you to make the most money with or create your market for something else. 3x3s stack just fine. I guess those that complain about them just need to get a bit more skillful operating their loaders. Besides if RJbaustian gets anything more then a 3x3 I would suggest that he needs a bigger loader tractor then the 5055e. Stacking 3x3s with my MF6290 has been sorta rough on the wheel rims in the front. But then I load semis and some goosenecks 3 at a time with it. But I don't stack out of the field with it anymore.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2014)

I ran and stacked 3x3s a long time. Got along great stacking and hauling. But... after stacking, handling hauling loading 3x4s are a lot better. With that being said it is about what works for u the best. I know 1 person i use to sell to could barely handle 1 3x3 let alone much more. Might only be able to handle 2 3x4s instead of 3 with your loader??


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

From what I see around here - about 95% of the big squares are 3x3. The reason they make then is cause a LOT of folks want them.

Rodney


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I understand your 3 by 3 arguement. If you are flake feeding, much easier and nicer to handle flakes and a 40 horse tractor can probably handle one at a time. I don't live in PA but if your market is smaller guys feeding flakes or using smaller equipment. No different than our round baler discussion here. We all use 6' foot balers but to the south they all use 4' balers because 4' bales travel better-legally speaking. We want to feed one bale of hay every three days to the milk cows not every day or every day and half.

Our neighbors couldn't wait to get away from there 3 by 3, but they had a 21' tall barn they wanted to stack to the ceiling. They fed directly to their cows, no resale.

We have bought and fed some 4 by 4's in bad hay years. 75XT with pallet forks handle one not two. Even we use our 95XT we don't handle two. If you are handling multiple bales, you must have a bad a55 machine.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

German Farmer said:


> Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I understand your 3 by 3 arguement. If you are flake feeding, much easier and nicer to handle flakes and a 40 horse tractor can probably handle one at a time. I don't live in PA but if your market is smaller guys feeding flakes or using smaller equipment. No different than our round baler discussion here. We all use 6' foot balers but to the south they all use 4' balers because 4' bales travel better-legally speaking. We want to feed one bale of hay every three days to the milk cows not every day or every day and half.
> 
> Our neighbors couldn't wait to get away from there 3 by 3, but they had a 21' tall barn they wanted to stack to the ceiling. They fed directly to their cows, no resale.
> 
> We have bought and fed some 4 by 4's in bad hay years. 75XT with pallet forks handle one not two. Even we use our 95XT we don't handle two. If you are handling multiple bales, you must have a bad a55 machine.


40 horse tractors are pushing it handling a 3x3. Especially the newer or cheapy 40hp tractors. They are just too light in the rear. Even here in Colorado with large feedlots and dairies the 3x3s sell for more money per bale and are easier to sell if you are not contracting with feedlots and dairies. Two seasons ago I didn't have time to bale all of my cousins hay. So he had a 4x4 custom guy bale it. Then I baled some with my 3x3 bales. He had a hard time selling the 4x4 bales until he made the price the same as the 3x3s. Which is really half the weight of a 4x4. When it's time to buy a new big square I might think hard about a 3x4. But I still don't think I could get the money per bale as I do the 3x3s. I sell most on a per bale basis. IF I sold more per ton you bet I would go 3x4s. They do stack better. I stack our 3x3s 5 high and haven't had any fall yet. Though I don't stack them with a loader in the barns. Two at a time isn't bad, but loading out a semi trailer 3 bales at a time can be kinda topsy, but I haven't had any fall yet either (who knows what happens when they are unloaded). But I have a little push off foot on my hay fork that really helps with 3x3 bales.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Location matters on bale size. A 4x4 baler east of the Mississippi I think would be a huge no-no. Those bales are huge and dense and the humidity is high and the stems are green. 3x4's will work and 3x3's are manageable because of less density and a smaller package that can cure out. I stack 3x3's 5 high if the barn will allow and load 3 at a time on the trucks. Trucks have to be strapped to move and yes, stacks do fall down. Our first rule, no bystanders when loading or unloading bales. Everyone needs to be at a safe distance. All bale spears have back stops to handle 3 bales, my dad rolled one down the loader once, smashed the steering will and went off the side before getting him. We had words and I told him to park it until he had a backstop. Horsepower doesn't matter as much as weight on loader tractors. We handle 3-3x3's all the time with a 60 horsepower farmall super m. 2400 lbs at a time but the tractor tips the scales at 10,000 lbs with 1500 lbs of wheel weights and fully loaded 15.5-38 tires.


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

Teslan, I feel your pain. We rarely sell hay, but I love when guy tells me he paid $25 for some round bales and lets off the part they were 4 by 5 and weighed about 700 and wants me to take 25 for 5 by 6 bale weighing 1200.

When we have to buy, it's always tonnage, but never seems to matter when we want to sell.

Super M, 3 bales? I don't think I would want three on our 5240.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

I agree with Teslan, need to match bale size with primary market. We bought a lot of big square western hay for our dairy, 3x4 was the common size. We never had an issue with stacking 3x3 bales, handled 3 at a time and stacked 6 high in the barn. Never had a stack tip over. 3x4 definitely has an advantage for getting them out of the field, but I don't think your customers care about your convenience, more about what they are set up to handle.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

German Farmer said:


> Teslan, I feel your pain. We rarely sell hay, but I love when guy tells me he paid $25 for some round bales and lets off the part they were 4 by 5 and weighed about 700 and wants me to take 25 for 5 by 6 bale weighing 1200.
> 
> When we have to buy, it's always tonnage, but never seems to matter when we want to sell.
> 
> Super M, 3 bales? I don't think I would want three on our 5240.


Actually have an M and a super M set up the same way. Both will pickup about 3500 lbs but usually can't move it because front tires smash to much and power steering poops out at about 2500 lbs. it's all about ballast in the right places and my loaders or short coupled, have to load trucks from both sides. The ole' m's will handle anything my NH TL100A will do except it has FWA, so it can move it if it picks it up. BTW, it ways in at 12,000 lbs. I move about 3-4000 bales a year with these set ups.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> Actually have an M and a super M set up the same way. Both will pickup about 3500 lbs but usually can't move it because front tires smash to much and power steering poops out at about 2500 lbs. it's all about ballast in the right places and my loaders or short coupled, have to load trucks from both sides. The ole' m's will handle anything my NH TL100A will do except it has FWA, so it can move it if it picks it up. BTW, it ways in at 12,000 lbs. I move about 3-4000 bales a year with these set ups.


Your Super M's front and wheels can hold up with that weight? I'm sure they can, but I'm kinda surprised. My cousin was using his IH 1086 to lift 2 4x4s for a while and both front rims broke. At different times. Though 2 4x4s weigh more then 3 3x3s. I've done a few loads since buying my little Volvo 20F wheel loader (59hp) It seems to do well with 3 3x3s. Very stable and more manuverable then our MF 6290.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Have not broke anything yet. Both have wfe from IH 806's.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

wow, theres a ton of information in this thread. Thanks for all of it. I thought 59K was a little high for that baler myself. It looks real nice, low bales, been through the shop and had all new sprockets and chains, and had a crop saver system on it. Im still looking. I plan on shipping all my hay out, so Id like a 3x4 for that, though I wont say no to a 3x3. Over all I think a 3x3 would be easier on my equiptment as well. Im not worried about my loader. Tires are full of fluid, and 400 lbs of weight on the wheels on top of that. I do plan to send that down the road soon and move to a tracked skid loader just as soon as I can. I think buying the baler has to come first though. Its starting to look up, with the father in law pleased with the way Im running things so far. Sent my 1st loads of hay to the auction, and were told by many people there, I had some of the nicest hay at the auction. Big dense big rounds. If theyd have been big squares they would have brought at least 75 bucks a ton higher though. Doesn't take long to figure out where I need to go next.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> wow, theres a ton of information in this thread. Thanks for all of it. I thought 59K was a little high for that baler myself. It looks real nice, low bales, been through the shop and had all new sprockets and chains, and had a crop saver system on it. Im still looking. I plan on shipping all my hay out, so Id like a 3x4 for that, though I wont say no to a 3x3. Over all I think a 3x3 would be easier on my equiptment as well. Im not worried about my loader. Tires are full of fluid, and 400 lbs of weight on the wheels on top of that. I do plan to send that down the road soon and move to a tracked skid loader just as soon as I can. I think buying the baler has to come first though. Its starting to look up, with the father in law pleased with the way Im running things so far. Sent my 1st loads of hay to the auction, and were told by many people there, I had some of the nicest hay at the auction. Big dense big rounds. If theyd have been big squares they would have brought at least 75 bucks a ton higher though. Doesn't take long to figure out where I need to go next.


Just be sure you are being nice to your wife. Or the father in law might not be to happy.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

ha ha...Shes just like her mother. He understands, still his little girl, but he understands....


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

So, is it the general consensus to not buy a New Holland? It seems like theres a TON of Hesstons out west and in the SW, but closest to me, as in up in Wisconsin theres a lot of New Hollands. Also in reply to an earlier post, I understand that maybe buying an older new, but never used baler might be the better buy, but that is just out of my reach at this point. Maybe in a few years though.


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

Started out with a well used cih 3x4 .4960 on the front. After learning curve of 4 seasons moved up to a new nh 9060 with crop cutter(3x3). Eliminated down time, capacity was equal, and stacking time was less , 2 at a time(1800#) vs 1 @ 1400. Cranking out bricks. Customer drops them right into his tmr with no chopping. Loves the package. Local dealer is excellent. We have some intense grades that make the 4960 grunt. 32 foot gooseneck is maxed out (hay delivery). Not trying to sell a brand, just sharing my experiences. Happy shopping.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

German farmer, not to bust your chops but I stack my 3x3s 6 high with a skidloader. Just have to be good and the bales have to be dense. Would love to have 3x4s but 3x3s sell better for ME and my custom guy doesn't own one yet. He's dead set on a new 3x3. Has an excellent customer base for those so cant Blame him.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Also I wouldn't be afraid of a big New Holland baler. Lots of them around here working hard, its just that hesstons been in the game longer.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Uphayman said:


> Started out with a well used cih 3x4 .4960 on the front. After learning curve of 4 seasons moved up to a new nh 9060 with crop cutter(3x3). Eliminated down time, capacity was equal, and stacking time was less , 2 at a time(1800#) vs 1 @ 1400. Cranking out bricks. Customer drops them right into his tmr with no chopping. Loves the package. Local dealer is excellent. We have some intense grades that make the 4960 grunt. 32 foot gooseneck is maxed out (hay delivery). Not trying to sell a brand, just sharing my experiences. Happy shopping.


The capacity is equal between your old 3x4 and your newer NH 3x3? So you can bale a field at the same speed? That's saying something about the change in technology over the years that a guy can bale faster.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Teslan said:


> The capacity is equal between your old 3x4 and your newer NH 3x3? So you can bale a field at the same speed? That's saying something about the change in technology over the years that a guy can bale faster.


Yep, my new(ish) 3x4 is significantly faster than my old 4x4 with the same tractor.

With my 4900, I'd normally bale at 3-5mph, up to maybe 6 in light hay (alfalfa). With my 2170, the SLOWEST I've ever baled is 7mph, normally more like 9mph, up to 11mph in light hay (which is limited by ground smoothess and turning speed).


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PackMan2170 said:


> Yep, my new(ish) 3x4 is significantly faster than my old 4x4 with the same tractor.
> 
> With my 4900, I'd normally bale at 3-5mph, up to maybe 6 in light hay (alfalfa). With my 2170, the SLOWEST I've ever baled is 7mph, normally more like 9mph, up to 11mph in light hay (which is limited by ground smoothess and turning speed).


I guess my 2150 is faster then your 4900 to. In heavy 1st cutting grass hay I go about 3.5-4.5 mph. Much faster in later cuttings and alfalfa. About 5-7 depending on field size, smoothness. I don't like to go faster in alfalfa because while the baler can handle the input it tends to start thrashing the alfalfa so there is more leaf loss. I can see it when I get above 6 mph. And I suspect with my new Krone rake I'll be able to go faster next year in my 1st cutting also.

Just thought I would add. I remember when the neighbor bought a new 4900. Everyone thought it was quite the baler. It was top of the line for then.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

The dealer in Hutchinson, KS called me this morning. Said he wants this gone by the end of the year. Dropped from 59,500 to 52,500. Willing to store it inside until by buddy takes his combines down that way in mid march, and can haul it back cheap. Its a 4790 with 17K bales, new updated cutter drum, shaft and bearings. Also has an inoculant system, and I think he said had the automatic luber. The thing LOOKS clean, though most things do in pictures. Heck the paint isn't even wore off in the bale chute. Im stuck on that baler for some reason. I did find a 4760 with 22,000 bales on it, set up about the same for 38k that's only 150 miles from me now....maybe I have my answer haha....Sorry for all the questions. Its a big investment for a young guy starting out, and Ive really got no one around that knows anything about big squares to lean on.


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## aarondeere (Dec 24, 2013)

Starting out and knowing the size tractor you have I would take a serious look at that 4760 3x3. We had a CIH 8575 which I think is the same baler as the 4760. It was a good baler. We traded it with about 30k bales on it and never had any real problems. Current baler is a Hesston 7433 which was a big jump in capacity over the 8575. This baler currently has 30k bales and I feel it can go quite a ways more. Biggest thing to look at is previous maintenance. I get mine checked over every year and anything that might just make it through the year is replaced. Last yr we had some major work done. New bearings and chains. This yr I'll need new plunger bearings which were getting worn but are in need of replacement this yr. With some infield service time I think last yrs maintence ended up being around $6k but for that I ran over 7k bales through it and never had any real down time. 22k bales is nothing if it has been maintained. When I talked to the service tech he said if running just dry hay through the baler and good maintenance you could see 100k through a baler. If not serviced regularly and also run corn fodder, 25k is a lot of bales and get ready for some major repairs. Either baler your looking at has a lot of life left but for the difference in price and the smaller bale size I would lean toward the 4760.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

aarondeere said:


> Starting out and knowing the size tractor you have I would take a serious look at that 4760 3x3. We had a CIH 8575 which I think is the same baler as the 4760. It was a good baler. We traded it with about 30k bales on it and never had any real problems. Current baler is a Hesston 7433 which was a big jump in capacity over the 8575. This baler currently has 30k bales and I feel it can go quite a ways more. Biggest thing to look at is previous maintenance. I get mine checked over every year and anything that might just make it through the year is replaced. Last yr we had some major work done. New bearings and chains. This yr I'll need new plunger bearings which were getting worn but are in need of replacement this yr. With some infield service time I think last yrs maintence ended up being around $6k but for that I ran over 7k bales through it and never had any real down time. 22k bales is nothing if it has been maintained. When I talked to the service tech he said if running just dry hay through the baler and good maintenance you could see 100k through a baler. If not serviced regularly and also run corn fodder, 25k is a lot of bales and get ready for some major repairs. Either baler your looking at has a lot of life left but for the difference in price and the smaller bale size I would lean toward the 4760.


Thank You Aaron sounds like some very good advice


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, that sure makes sense. The owner of the dealership called me to tell me its not actually 22,ooo bales, its 40,000 or more....makes it a little bit tougher choice now I think....


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

No worries, Seth. We still use a round baler so I was only passing on second-hand device.


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## shadyoakhay (Oct 23, 2014)

I hate to disagree but new Holland krone and Massey are all nice. But I really like new Holland. I'm also in the same position as this guy is that made this thread. Where I am were the only person in the county with a large square. Stay away from the 590 series nh. I'm gonna seriously look at krone as the dealer has a big baler guy. But I've had amazing treatment from the New Holland rep and dealer helping me with our new Holland. Weeks in the field with me trying to get it right. Never charged me a single penny for it. But I'm gonna seriously look at both.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

shadyoakhay said:


> I hate to disagree but new Holland krone and Massey are all nice. But I really like new Holland. I'm also in the same position as this guy is that made this thread. Where I am were the only person in the county with a large square. Stay away from the 590 series nh. I'm gonna seriously look at krone as the dealer has a big baler guy. But I've had amazing treatment from the New Holland rep and dealer helping me with our new Holland. Weeks in the field with me trying to get it right. Never charged me a single penny for it. But I'm gonna seriously look at both.


Was your NH a New NH or a used one that they helped you for weeks in the field getting it right? I guess what I'm asking is if it was a new one. Why did it take more then a few hours to get right? If it was used I can understand I think.... I don't mean to be sounding like I'm saying NH aren't good. Just wondering why it took weeks to get right.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Ive kind of given up on finding a good used Hesston within a reasonable distance that I feel comfortable about in my price range. The one I really like is a 3x4, and whoever made points against a 3x4 for me, made sense. I don't think it really matters 3x4 vs 3x3 around here for the most part, but I just don't have heavy enough equiptment to put up the abuse yet. Theres a bunch of 3x3's around that have around 40K bales on them, and though I agree that a well maintained one with that many bales should be OK for me, I don't have the dealer support close enough should I really start to have issues. Im looking at a 01 NH BB940. Its for 23K bales, one owner, with an accumulator. Dealer says its well maintained. He told me the guy didn't do any custom work, just his own, and decided to just have his work custom baled. I can get it for 33,500. Has a harvest tech applicator already on it also. Its got the big 1000 on it. He said he wouldn't feel comfortable using a reducer on my PTO, and advised putting the smaller yoke on it. Had a few guys tell me that using an adaptor would be fine. Im kinda leaning towards not using an adaptor. Thoughts?


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

For the amount of energy being exchanged with that plunger, I would not run an adaptor. Changing out a yoke, is much easier than pulling the PTO if you break the shaft.

If you all your tractors and other equipment run small 1000 than I would change out the yoke.

We have been running a big to small adaptor on our 4640 to run auger wagon, chopper, and hay machine. We just updated two of those machines this year and we are changing all PTO's to big 1000, and I don't think any of those machines pull as hard as a big square baler.


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## shadyoakhay (Oct 23, 2014)

Teslan said:


> Was your NH a New NH or a used one that they helped you for weeks in the field getting it right? I guess what I'm asking is if it was a new one. Why did it take more then a few hours to get right? If it was used I can understand I think.... I don't mean to be sounding like I'm saying NH aren't good. Just wondering why it took weeks to get right.


It was a used one. Major problems. Just worn out. Computer system didn't work. Was bad out of time. Spent a pile of money and it still doesn't work right.


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## shadyoakhay (Oct 23, 2014)

My father in law bought it after the dealer told us they want to see it work before they'd trade him. Learned the hard way. Won't be my last baler though. I don't want to own a round baler anymore.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

shadyoakhay said:


> It was a used one. Major problems. Just worn out. Computer system didn't work. Was bad out of time. Spent a pile of money and it still doesn't work right.


I'm glad you didn't say it was a new one giving such trouble. Because even if the dealer is great and wonderful spending more then a day getting a brand new one working wouldn't be good. Weeks on a used one isn't any fun at all either and I would just be plain mad.


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## shadyoakhay (Oct 23, 2014)

its been a struggle that's for sure. but I know they have to be better than a round baler. it worked good when we first got it. went down the drain after the first 25 acres


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, signed my life away and purchased a baler. 2005 Hesston 4760. Its got 24K bales on it, acid system, cutter, tandem axles, moisture sensors, and accumulator. Looked great on the internet, and didn't disappoint when I walked into the barn. I think its been well maintained. The rest of his equipment matched as far as condition. Im pretty excited. The only downfall is its the big 1000, and my 4455 has the small. Im going to be on the low end of horse, but its just going to have to work for the time being. Once I get it home, I can start making up a few fliers and get my name out there. I have a feeling that's not going to be needed. I think Ill just go have coffee with the old timers at the local gas station. News should hit every farmer in the county by noon haha. Thanks for all your advice, it sure helped me nail down what seems to be the right baler for me.


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Two Hesston 7444 4x4 balers with 25,000 and 30,000 bales sold for 16K and 18K the other day. Could probably rebuild them for 5K a piece is what we were thinking. 4x4's are getting cheap!

Trey


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

This is a very good thread. I am currently up to making 1000 4x5's/ year.
I beginning to wonder if its a good idea to switch to 3x4 square bales. 
Does anyone think its a bad idea to make a lot of RB's versus say 3x4 square bales?
Are bigger squares primary advantage stacking? 
It would have to be a considerable advantage because you can get a very good NEW silage baler for under 30k. Even a well USED 3x4 is ~60k.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

treymo said:


> Two Hesston 7444 4x4 balers with 25,000 and 30,000 bales sold for 16K and 18K the other day. Could probably rebuild them for 5K a piece is what we were thinking. 4x4's are getting cheap!
> 
> Trey


I wonder if the demand for 4x4s is lower now then in the past with the 3x4s and 3x3s out there. Still only 2 manufacturers around of 4x4s. AGCO brands and Krone.


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Most guys are thinking its cheaper for the 4x4 balers to sit in the shed then to try to sell them. Pretty much the market for most of the 4900/ 8580/ 4910 and even some of the newer ones aren't going for much over salvage price. 3x4 is the rage in this area. Very few 3x3s except for a few specialty alfalfa guys that are sending hay to the eastern United States. 4x4s seem to be a cheap way to get into square baling at the moment but once you're in, 3x4s will provide you with the weight on a truck needed to go after those long distance markets.

Trey


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Its actually pretty interesting concept JD, you might seriously be better off with big squares. Say you have 1000 big rounds @1200lbs =1,200,000 lbs of hay. Broken into big squares of [email protected] that would be 1500 bales. I don't know what a 3x4 bale weight would be but I bet it a 1000+. Lbs. And they haul+load better. Not to mention that they strap easy. 
I stack all my big squares 6 high and I love it. I used to have round bales made and I could only stack 4 high.

Trey, not any 3x4 or 4x4 balers around here. All 3x3 around here. 
I would not be opposed to 3x4 bale in stead. Less Trips across field and easier to load trucks


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

sethd11 said:


> Its actually pretty interesting concept JD, you might seriously be better off with big squares. Say you have 1000 big rounds @1200lbs =1,200,000 lbs of hay. Broken into big squares of [email protected] that would be 1500 bales. I don't know what a 3x4 bale weight would be but I bet it a 1000+. Lbs. And they haul+load better. Not to mention that they strap easy.
> I stack all my big squares 6 high and I love it. I used to have round bales made and I could only stack 4 high.
> 
> Trey, not any 3x4 or 4x4 balers around here. All 3x3 around here.
> I would not be opposed to 3x4 bale in stead. Less Trips across field and easier to load trucks


3x4s should weigh about 1200 lbs. We have all 3 sizes around here. The 4x4s are giving way to more 3x4s though. The only users of 4x4s really are the larger dairies or feedlots. 3x3s are used by the horse crowd and the small livestock operations. 3x4 fits the needs of both.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

JD-Around here hay in big squares will bring at the least 50 bucks a ton more, and often 75-100/ton higher. They are easier to haul also. I think one of the concepts is that there is less waste from a big square, because they don't sit out in the rain. They also pack better in the barn. Less wasted space. Guys also don't have to throw em around like the little squares too. Most people that have horses have access to, or own a small tractor, so they can move these around easier than a big round. Almost all big rounds in this area are 5x6. Theres VERY few smaller than that.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

A lot of my hay is sold by the ton. Buyer doesn't care whether its big squares or round bales. It's $105/ton for mulch hay either way.
I do like the ease of stacking and shipping, but I'm getting pretty adept at loading & strapping RBs 
It would involve a higher HP tractor and about $50k for a big square baler. Quite an investment. Might be a long time before it pays off. 
I think I would need to be cutting 200-250+ acres before it would be time to switch???


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I think you're right on track in your thinking JD. One breakdown on the big square would buy you a used round baler in good shape.

What is your choke point in production now? Is baling time your limiting factor?


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

If your guy doesn't care either way, then I don't see much of an advantage to switch. Your only advantage would be shipping, and it doesn't seem like that's a problem for you. So, what do they do with this "Mushroom" hay anyway? My buddy had mushroom hay this summer, but I called it mushroom hay because he was a dip-sh!t and baled it way too wet, and it grew mushrooms haha


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## German Farmer (Apr 14, 2014)

Congrats, rjbaustian. Good luck with your new machine.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> If your guy doesn't care either way, then I don't see much of an advantage to switch. Your only advantage would be shipping, and it doesn't seem like that's a problem for you. So, what do they do with this "Mushroom" hay anyway? My buddy had mushroom hay this summer, but I called it mushroom hay because he was a dip-sh!t and baled it way too wet, and it grew mushrooms haha


They compost it and grow mushrooms in it.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

huh....Ill be darn. Sure wish we had that option around this area this past summer. Wouldn't have had to try to hard to make good hay(rarely happened) this year haha


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rjbaustian said:


> huh....Ill be darn. Sure wish we had that option around this area this past summer. Wouldn't have had to try to hard to make good hay(rarely happened) this year haha


It still has to be decent hay-probably similar to beef cattle hay. ~20% moisture, not an excessive amount of weeds, no multi flora rose, stickers, leaves, tree litter, etc. 
they take your bales and put them in an area. They are tested for moisture. if you are over 25%, you get docked. They are unwrapped and sawed into halves or quarters. If they have a lot of junk in them, you can get docked again or asked not to come back.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

really? I assumed that they would take any old junk hay just to grow mushrooms. Learned something new today! I assume you just bale grass hay though for it? Or am I wrong on that too haha


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rjbaustian said:


> really? I assumed that they would take any old junk hay just to grow mushrooms. Learned something new today! I assume you just bale grass hay though for it? Or am I wrong on that too haha


Yep, just grass hay. Can't be too junky!!
When I first started, I assumed they'd take anything. I was wrong. I wasn't asked to keep bringing hay. I had to try harder. I found a new buyer and he told me what he wanted. I listened and learned.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Yep, just grass hay. Can't be too junky!!
> When I first started, I assumed they'd take anything. I was wrong. I wasn't asked to keep bringing hay. I had to try harder. I found a new buyer and he told me what he wanted. I listened and learned.


I've successfully sent hay in the "anything" category. You just can't send entire loads of junk. Gotta mix those in with "better" bales. Not that I've ever sent anything good enough to even qualify as cow hay. Otherwise, I would have just fed it to my cows.

Word on the street, though, is they're less picky with squares because the way they use them doesn't make the weeds as obvious to them as round bale weeds appear. To me, JD, that ability to further conceal junk would be your only real calculable advantage to switching to a big square.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Definitely not what I'm trying to do.
I just sold my 14k trailer yesterday. I am looking for a 30' 20-25k lb trailer. It will be much better for hauling big squares.


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## Bazooka (Sep 17, 2013)

My opinion is that Hesston or Agco still makes the best midsize or large square balers in the world. If you can run one htat you are liking at empty, listen to the packer for any knocking, they got better as they got newer, but they didn't always get greased well and if that crank gets ruined you can be looking at thousands for a replacement. If it was maintained and shimmed according to general maintenance specs it should not have much side or up/down play when you grab and wiggle them.

Grab and pull toward you on the pickup teeth to check the bearings and cam play. Very exjpensive if you shuck a cam bearing and break the cam and twist up the pickup tooth tubes .It is easy to see the plunger bearings, not so easy to see the lateral plunger bearings., but if the bales have been cleaned out you can climb in the bale chamber and stick a pry bar in the side and pry sideways on both sides to see how much play there is between both sides, if there is a lot you will also see paint rubbed off on the outer plunger bearing guards, but it will need adjusting or replacing either way you find it.. if it is a single axle check the cross brace under the chamber behind the axle for cracks. Single axles had a problem with that if they had a lot of bales on them. also a single axle will put a lot of tongue weight on your 4455 hitch where a tandem is a lot less. You probably know what to look for on the knotters if you have run these balers before, rollers,tensioners etc. Also, when you raise the outer side shields on either side look up at to top of the frame above the stuffer chamber for cracks or welds. Stuffer link is basic visual inspection for pjlay in the bushings and check the stuffer brake condition. If you can hook up the monitor to check all its functions you will at least know that all the electronics and switches are talking, if not you may have a bad connection or sensor.Good luck


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Thank you for the advice BB....I already purchased it, but when I get it delivered, ill have my laptop out and check everything you mentioned. Im also going to a baler school in Feb with a few other guys from the general area. Its a long long way to go for that, but I have zero experience with a big square. I think it will be money WELL spent to be honest.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> I think you're right on track in your thinking JD. One breakdown on the big square would buy you a used round baler in good shape.
> 
> What is your choke point in production now? Is baling time your limiting factor?


I think its indoor storage. I can't get enough hay inside. Inside bales = more $$
Even what I get it inside sits inside all summer. People don't start calling for hay until September, really more like December, so I end up with about 150 1st cutting bales and end up with second cutting sitting outside. 
Next year, all but the very best 1st cut stays outside. Leave inside room for 2nd cut. 
Bottom line is, I need a barn that'll hold 750 RBs.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

So.....basically something the size of the Pentagon huh...lol that's a lot of bales to get under roof!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

rjbaustian said:


> So.....basically something the size of the Pentagon huh...lol that's a lot of bales to get under roof!


50x100


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

rjbaustian said:


> Thank you for the advice BB....I already purchased it, but when I get it delivered, ill have my laptop out and check everything you mentioned. Im also going to a baler school in Feb with a few other guys from the general area. Its a long long way to go for that, but I have zero experience with a big square. I think it will be money WELL spent to be honest.


Tell us more about this baler school in February. Where is it and who is putting it on?


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