# New Swather



## nmhayfarmer (Oct 5, 2011)

I am looking at purchasing a new swather. I want a 16 foot sickle header,and will not buy a discbine. I am debating between a new holland or Massy Fergeson, and was wondering which was a more reliable machine.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Our neighbor really likes Macdon sickle swathers. He has 3. I think the oldest one is probably 10 and the newest is 2010 or 2011 Just another brand to consider. Personally I think the differences between Massey and NH in the sickle machines is small. I would just go for the lowered priced one. Or base it on what dealer you like best.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Out of curiosity why do you not want a discbine?


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

We have run New Hollands for a couple generations now. We tried a MacDon a couple months ago and took it back to the dealership. Looking to get back into another New Holland.

In case you can't tell, we swear by the New Holland and the way it cuts.


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## nmhayfarmer (Oct 5, 2011)

Which a sickle header it lays the hay mostly to one direction. With a discbine it lays they hay all directions which doesn't make any difference if your chopping hay or big baling. With a small baler we bale it the way it was cut and it will make a prettier bale and doesn't shatter the leaves. I farm in a rock pile seems like and I have always heard a discbine is a nightmare in the rocks.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

You are right about the way a sickle lays the hay for baling with small balers. It won't thrash the leaves as bad going one way over the other. But we switched to a Hesston disc swather and it didn't affect the quality of alfalfa or the bale at all. And now I don't always have to be thinking about which way to go down the windrow at 3 am. We have a kind of rocky field and with a sickle machine I could guarantee one broken section or guard a cutting. With the disc swather I never have had one break until today on my cousins field when I hit a rock as big as a volleyball. Have you experienced cutting with a disc swather?


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I have had both. Drive a rotor you might change your mind. I have 6 JD rotors now I will never go back to a sickle swather


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## nmhayfarmer (Oct 5, 2011)

I have cut haygrazer with a hw 340 discbine. It seemed to be rough with the hay. My rocks are so bad that I have broken 3 or 4 section a round in my first feild. The man at New Holland said 72,000 for a new swather that is the plain model with a 16 foot head. Everyone says you can run a lot fast but how can the conditioner handle much more hay. I plug my sickle headers on a regular basis so I can't see running that much faster.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm thinking you should buy a used discbine and save the rest of your money for a rock picker and a heavy land roller.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

So we have had a brand new New Holland 8080 sitting at the shop for two days with two mechanics attached to it. It has cut ZERO acres thus far. They are having trouble getting the header to float right. I will let you guys know if I get a chance to run it.

I did some research this morning, and the new Case swather, I think its the 2030, is the EXACT same as the New Holland 8080. This was confirmed by my local Case dealer. They are supposed to be hauling one out for me to demo sometime this afternoon. I will give you guys my thoughts on this machine as well.

Both machines have the new disc header on them, btw (16 foot).


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

So you own the brand new NH 8800 that is in the shop or are you are hoping to try it out? Are you unhappy with it's mechanical performance thus far? If so then why even try the Case since they are the same thing?


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> So you own the brand new NH 8800 that is in the shop or are you are hoping to try it out? Are you unhappy with it's mechanical performance thus far? If so then why even try the Case since they are the same thing?


Thank goodness I don't own it! The New Holland is a demo as well. Yeah, we are having issues with header floats. The service department here is very unexperienced and the problem is beyond them apparently.

I want to run the Case because we stand behind the New Holland design, we just can't stand behind our dealer anymore.


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## cattleranch (Dec 17, 2010)

We run a pt Agco rotary right now and our MF dealer is working on a trade for a JD 4990. Before the Agco we ran NH sickles 488 and 499. We do a lot of custom hay so the capacity of the rotary is good, unless you hit lots of rocks or hidden manhole covers. We had a local hesston dealer for a long time and the people that run sickles from him don't seem to have problems. Also the neighbor runs macdon and likes it. As long as you have dealer support I think you are good with almost any brand.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

You have a problem with lots of hidden manhole covers? Lol. Sorry that just makes me chuckle a little bit. I've never had to think about looking for manhole covers. Gas and oil wells yes. Manholes no.


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## robert23239 (May 10, 2009)

will not buy a discbine.
Hello

Just curious have you had bad experience with discbine ?

Robert


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## man of steel (Feb 1, 2010)

robert23239 said:


> will not buy a discbine.
> Hello
> 
> Just curious have you had bad experience with discbine ?
> ...


What are the advantages to a discbine and do they out weigh the dis-advantages of a discbine?

I've baled behind Deere, NH and my Gehl discbine. Been running mine since I think '99

I see crop loss in using a discbine compared to a sickle and it increases as the crops get thinner or when you have to slow down for field conditions.

I'm considering(actively looking for one) buying a SP sickle in addition to keeping my discbine. Use the discbine when condition warrant it(wet, grass, chickweed) and use the larger SP for clean alfalfa.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

man of steel said:


> What are the advantages to a discbine and do they out weigh the dis-advantages of a discbine?
> 
> I've baled behind Deere, NH and my Gehl discbine. Been running mine since I think '99
> 
> ...


I had a 1030 vermeer discpro with paddle conditioner for 1 yr.It did work great for short or thin crops.The draft created by the conditioners on different cutters make a difference on short-thin crops.

The paddle conditioner worked great for grass but not for my alfalfa is the reason I got rid of it.


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## man of steel (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm not even talking about the fact that short light doesn't cut well. I'm talking about the fact that the blades are cutting and chopping the plants until they make it to the rolls


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

If you are going to use a sickle go to the S.I. Distributing website and look at the SCH Easycut system. We put on on an older pull type mower conditioner and I think it is the most bang for the buck of anything we have ever bought. Better guards better knife sections and will cut very good in fine conditions. Look at the website and I can tell you everything they say is true.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

OK, so they finally got the New Holland 8080 running. And just like I figured, it ran like a champ. It cuts faster (8.5-10mph) in heavy, nasty hay than our old sickle (of course), and it's a lot faster/cleaner cutting than the MacDon we returned. The new header is amazing, there is no signs of the "turtling" marks left by the old NH disc headers.

The Case's performance was identical, as they are identical machines.

I will be making my decision based on price, which is identical, and the service department, where Case is head and shoulders above here.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer is there not a massey dealer in your area for you to try out a Massey swather?


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## cattleranch (Dec 17, 2010)

Teslan said:


> You have a problem with lots of hidden manhole covers? Lol. Sorry that just makes me chuckle a little bit. I've never had to think about looking for manhole covers. Gas and oil wells yes. Manholes no.


Yeah some people we do custom for need to mark a few things...We hit another a couple years ago that had the windrow raked on top of it. I chuckle about it now but I was fuming when I hit them.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Leadfarmer is there not a massey dealer in your area for you to try out a Massey swather?


Yes Teslan, the New Holland dealer sells all the Agco stuffas well, but it would be the same mechanics who couldn't figure out the demo New Holland 8080 I was talking about!

I love the new Case I demoed, I'm probably gonna buy it.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

We are still happy with our combo of Case 8312 MoCos and 8840 swathers. Would be very hard pressed to spend the $100K for a new machine based on the available models. I would be tempted by a MF with a 12' rotary Razor header.

I think MF has the best all-around designs going, the new Razor headers with the Sisu gear boxes are pretty stout. That is what rules in our neighborhood. JD and CaseNH are borderline and the MacDon is a nice machine but the conditioner setup is crap.

The windrows from both the pull type and self-propelled rotaries seem to be denser and almost thatched together. The higher ground speed seems to make our windrows narrow up and really stick together compared to the sickle machines.

No "best" machine for all scenarios - that's why we have each I guess. I would buy another old Case/Hesston anyway compared to anything new.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer I was just suggesting for you to try out an Agco swather compared to a New Holland. If I was in the market for a new one I would try out a New Holland as I'm sorta curious on what that auger in them would do with our grass hay. We have a Massey and it's been great. Sorry the guys there can't figure things out. Maybe try a Deere swather to try a different dealer?


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Leadfarmer I was just suggesting for you to try out an Agco swather compared to a New Holland. If I was in the market for a new one I would try out a New Holland as I'm sorta curious on what that auger in them would do with our grass hay. We have a Massey and it's been great. Sorry the guys there can't figure things out. Maybe try a Deere swather to try a different dealer?


We have never liked the Deere swathers. Nevertheless, the local dealer was supposed to have one ready for us to demo this cutting, but we never saw it! I was definitely willing to give it a chance, as this has been the year from Hell as far as our swather situation goes.

It's kind of a weird situation down here, as the Case and New Holland dealers are totally separate, so you see, I already went to a different dealer!

So far this year I have run our New Holland HW345, our old New Holland (sadly traded towards MacDon we no longer have), a MacDon M200, a New Holland 8080 and a Case 2030. The HW345 is still as trusty as ever, and I believe the Case to be the best of the other machines, only beating out the New Holland due to service/support.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I have 2 4995 and 2 450r jd swathers were puting right at 1000hr a year on each one they have been good to us. I'm not a big nh fan don't like the head very much. had one won't touch another one


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## Dan Ridder (Sep 17, 2011)

I have 2 4995 and 2 450r jd swathers were puting right at 1000hr a year on each one they have been good to us. I'm not a big nh fan don't like the head very much. had one won't touch another one

Was told that the 4995 JD didn't lay out an even swath. Agree or Disagree? Also what are the bad points of the NH or Case IH. I'm looking at all 3. The models are NH HW345, CaseIH WDX1902 and JD 4995. All are diskbine heads.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

The jd swathers will leave a even crop if you use the shields right. But it does not leave it as good as the hesston. But dry time is the same I cut my alfalfa on monday and rake wen morning and bale that night. Disc speed makes a diference on how smooth the row is. It's hard to explain . I have one 4995 with 9500hr on it and all I do is rebuild the head every year.

The new hollands we had the the coupler between each turtles gets warn with as many hr as I put on them. The other problem was if you got twine under the turtle the bearing would get hot and take out 3. I personally do not like the Auger in the head with big crops seams to rob to much power in my opinion. Also do not like the vibration after 2000 hr even with rebuilds. All I know is with the new Holland we were rebuilding the head every 800 hr or less and the jd is going 1500 hr for me I get a full season before rebuild that makes a big difference for me.

I also have a lot of rodents in the fields we cut, so dirt is a big factor in wear in this area. We cut every thing from alfalfa to orchard grass to meadow grass to corn stubble. We cut just under 30,000 acr a year. If i found something better than the jd i would switch.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> I have 2 4995 and 2 450r jd swathers were puting right at 1000hr a year on each one they have been good to us. I'm not a big nh fan don't like the head very much. had one won't touch another one


Its a new head.


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## stan223 (Feb 16, 2011)

I didn't read this whole thread maybe you found your answer but i do know in dry sandy conditions steel conditioners will not wear as fast and crimp better than rubber rolls. so MacDon wins vs new holland in a wetter climate like Indiana rubber rolls are prefer'd i think because of less leaf loss. imo just get what makes you happy.

i traded my nh 1431 disc bine for a new center pivot 14' sickle mower and will never go back i mow as fast and do way better in light crop and get way better regrowth more noticeable in grass or grass mix hay


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