# Questions on custom rate charges for hay baling.



## Josh in WNY

My dad and I are kicking around the idea of getting into customer small square and round baling work in our area. I'm using the custom rate charts that PA posted for 2016 as my baseline and have created a spreadsheet to combine the different operations (mowing, raking, baling) and have added in pickup/stacking as well. During this, I came up with a couple questions.

1) How much for moving round bales? I'm not sure if I want to just move them to the edge of the field, to their barn or offer the options at two different costs. Any opinions of this?

2) How much for picking up and stacking small squares with my stacker wagon? At this point I'm going with $0.50 per bale, but I have nothing to base this on other than my gut (it's the number my dad picked, too). I would limit my work to setting the load off at their barn with no manual labor on my part... they would be in charge of getting the hay into their barn unless it was a situation where I could back in and set the stack off. Also, I wouldn't pick the bales up with my wagon unless I had done the baling.

3) What to charge for moving bales with my bale grab? I haven't even come up with a price for this yet, but was thinking this may be more of a per hour charge than per bale.

4) Should I have different rates for 1st cutting versus 2nd or later cuttings? My spreadsheet adjusts everything to a per acre charge by assuming a minimum number bales per acre. However, I've typically seen my lower per acre averages for 2nd and later cuttings.

I'm sure I've missed at least one question, but this is a start. I look forward to your responses and thank you in advance.

- Josh


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## Tx Jim

I don't haul or stack bales so someone else will have to address those questions.

I've been custom baling for 30 yrs. I think one needs to establish a minimum charge per acre. This minimum will vary between different areas of the USA. My minimum charge per acre for cutting/raking/rd &/or sq baling is $50 per acre. If I charged any more I wouldn't have many if any customers.


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## Josh in WNY

Thanks, Tx Jim. It's nice to get advise from someone who has experience. You stated that $50 per acre is your minimum. Do you charge more for certain things and if so what?

Based on the PA prices and assuming a minimum of 4 bales per acre for rounds and 60 bales per acre for squares (these rates are listed in $ per bale rather than $ per acre in the PA literature), the per acre rates would be about $57 and $86 per acre for rounds and squares, respectively. Rounds are near your price, but squares are higher. That might be a regional difference that you mentioned, though. Has your experience shown that there really isn't much difference between baling squares vs. rounds?


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## IH 1586

Round baling I charge by the bale, varies by size and whether its baleage. Mowing, raking , and tedding are all broken down by the hour. That way no matter how many bale I get I still get compensated for the other work.

Small squares $1.05/bale for just baling and $2.05/bale for mowing, raking, and baling.

Customers pay for all fuel except for round baling.

I don't move any bales round or square.


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## glasswrongsize

Josh in WNY said:


> 1) How much for moving round bales? I'm not sure if I want to just move them to the edge of the field, to their barn or offer the options at two different costs. Any opinions of this?
> 
> I figure $5 per bale to move if I use truck/trailer and within 5 miles or so. I have tractor or skid steer on each end and move 1-5 miles most generally.
> 
> 3) What to charge for moving bales with my bale grab? I haven't even come up with a price for this yet, but was thinking this may be more of a per hour charge than per bale.
> 
> I figure $.25 per bale per move with the grapple.
> 
> 4) Should I have different rates for 1st cutting versus 2nd or later cuttings? My spreadsheet adjusts everything to a per acre charge by assuming a minimum number bales per acre. However, I've typically seen my lower per acre averages for 2nd and later cuttings.
> 
> To a certain extent, the lower rate can be fixed with the rake. I just bales 6 acres in 24 minutes. The drought has yields TERRIBLE here, but I had to bale the hay. I put 54' into a windrow to make a decent row. It took a little extra time raking, but nowhere near double the time; so there was extra cost, but <$5 per acre (which is my charge per-acre for raking)
> 
> - Josh


Mark

PS, those are COSTS and not figuring for profit or custom and costs were figured using published figures for costs to operate specific equipment inclusive of fuel, depreciation, new equipment, wages ($13.00), interest, barns for equipment, etc....


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## Tx Jim

IH 1586 said:


> Customers pay for all fuel except for round baling.


IMHO fuel is just one of the expenses in performing the task of harvesting hay.

May I ask how you can fairly determine amount of fuel used per customer? Do you enter each customers field with a full tank of fuel in each tractor or just estimate fuel usage? If you charge for fuel why not charge for net wrap or twine used to wrap customers hay? Or charge for wear on cutter blades?


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## Tx Jim

Josh

I receive more money per acre sq baling but it takes a lot longer. Keep in mind what you can charge per acre & have customers is determined by what other customer operators in your area charge. If you charge a lot more for finished product that others in your area you will have no or very few customers. I personally see no reason to break down my charges for each task of creating a bale as it takes all of the tasks(cutting,raking & baling) to make a bale of hay. Normally no tedding is required where I live although sometimes I've wished I owned a tedder to use to dry hay


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## 8350HiTech

Tx Jim said:


> Josh
> I receive more money per acre sq baling but it takes a lot longer. Keep in mind what you can charge per acre & have customers is determined by what other customer operators in your area charge. If you charge a lot more for finished product that others in your area you will have no or very few customers. I personally see no reason to break down my charges for each task of creating a bale as it takes all of the tasks(cutting,raking & baling) to make a bale of hay. Normally no tedding is required where I live although sometimes I've wished I owned a tedder to use to dry hay


You have to break down tasks if people might hire you to complete only one or two parts of the process.


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## Thorim

My question is why would you want to take on this exercise in futility?????

First off there is always going to be someone out there that will underbid you no matter what you quote, all they seem to care about is getting the job even if they loose money on it, now granted they'll do the job half a$$ed, take twice as long as you would, pi$$ off their customer but the owner of the hay will continue to use them because they are "cheaper" never mind how much the owner gripes about the job the "cheaper" guy does he keeps hiring them over and over because most people want to do things as cheap as possible sadly that is human nature...

Secondly your taking your mowing equipment into a strange field and who knows what is lurking in that tall grass/weed/ alfalfa, to give you a major repair bill especially along fence lines or the old barns or homesteads that have been bulldozed to increase the field size have found old hand dug wells with no top or drilled wells with just the metal casing sticking about eight or nine inches above the ground, seen old concrete watering trough sitting in the middle of the field thankfully saw them before hitting them, and this is after asking the owner if there was anything to worry about running into.. or he forgets to mention the few trees he cut down last winter when the snow was ten inches deep so know you have a stump ten inches high to deal with..... don't forget the remnants of that old chimney or fireplace that they didn't have the time to cleanup.

Does it happen in every field no but it only takes once or twice to turn a profit into a loss...

Third are you doing this for extra income or will this be your main money maker. If your doing it for extra income there are other ways to make some extra money that won't give you such a headache cause everyone wants their hay done cheap and yesterday lol, daddy always said if you going do something to make a living do it big or don't do it at all....

Good luck and may you be prosperous in what ever you undertake...


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## IH 1586

Tx Jim said:


> IMHO fuel is just one of the expenses in performing the task of harvesting hay.
> 
> May I ask how you can fairly determine amount of fuel used per customer? Do you enter each customers field with a full tank of fuel in each tractor or just estimate fuel usage? If you charge for fuel why not charge for net wrap or twine used to wrap customers hay? Or charge for wear on cutter blades?


Tractor is fueled up in the field out of my truck and metered then customer is charged. Using net as an example I can determine the cost of net when I prebuy it. Cost does not change, fuel however can fluctuate throughout the entire year. When I send out my price list in the late winter I don't have to readjust throughout the year. A lot of the custom work in this area the equipment leaves with a full tank from the farm it works on. I used to do it til I got a tank, now I prefer to use my own as I know how its kept and filtered.


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## Wethay

I had one customer tell me there was going to be 3000 small squares, because that was what they always got charges for. I bid per bale with a minimum to cover my backside covering that much ground if the hay wasn't as thick as they thought and yielded about what I thought. I also put in plus damages caused by obstructions, debris, etc.. They where good with that because they had always got 3000 bales and the fields were clean. Four foot into the first field the mower conditioner grabbed a cinder block that had been used to prop a gate open and soon after that, about the time the pto stopped, they were walking the fields, making sure that they really were clean. When I got done they wrote me a check for the minimum because I had just over 2000 bales on the counter. They also found that the number of bales hauled matched the number baled with in 2 bales a field. The past years they had always had hay disappear at night, without a bare spot appearing, or people buying hay had put 50% more on a load than they reported without it showing. Either that or the guy who had done it previously had gotten paid per bale and wanted paid more than the real bale count.


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## endrow

There is a fellow we use to help out , for his combine he charges $28 ;per acre comes with a full tank and you have to fill it when he is done before he leaves . I would much rather do it that way then pay some crazy surcharge for fuel you never use .


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## Hayjosh

Out here the going rate is around $2/bale give or take, to mow, rake, and square bale. I'm not sure what it is for round baling. The guy I have mow my fields charges $20/acre with his 14' self-propelled disc bine, and he charges around $10 or $15/acre for raking.

He round bales first cutting and he does everything and pays me $15/bale.

I had a haybine last year but sold it because it was so much easier and cost effective to hire it done with the disc bine. However, I've gotten tired of having to wait until he can get there to mow it so I'll be back in the market for another haybine next spring.


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## Wethay

I've done one custom job where they would provide fuel. Great as I don't have a good way to haul it, and it's one less expense. They said it was great for them also because the fuel had been in that out door tank for three, four years now. Fill the tractors before you to go there, haul a couple two and a half gallon hydraulic oil jugs every morning before going back and bring the tractors home on empty. Fuel might have been cheaper than the problems I didn't want to chance.


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