# Experience with Vermeer hay mowers...



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Dad's talking like he might go for buying a new mower this fall or winter... he stopped by a Vermeer dealer and liked what he saw.

I went over to the Vermeer dealer and talked to the guy. He was really nice and pulled out basically half the parts I'd need to build a cutterbar onto the parts counter for me. I like the fact that all their parts are cast iron and seem to be very stout-- The module housings seemed nice and strong, as did the spacers between them, and the design looked well engineered. I've been FAR more impressed with the design of MODULAR cutterbars than the regular "stamped-steel oil-bath idler gear-on-gear type gearcase bars on mowers like the Kuhn's, etc. I know those work fine, that MOST of the manufacturers out there are using a gearcase and idler-gear daisychain arrangement for their mowers, but from a longevity standpoint, I just don't like them. I've run a Kuhn mower for a guy and it did a fine job, but I've read enough about the stamped steel gearcases rusting through and stuff like that to realize that they're not going to have a long, long life without expensive repairs down the road. I was HIGHLY impressed with the heft and stoutness of the Vermeer/Lely bar parts... I like that their turtles are a little lower profile than the New Hollands and that the "high hats" just bolt onto the disks-- they're all universal. The cast hubs and recessed seal grooves in the hub also impressed me. AFAIK, there's only really two choices for a new mower with a MODULAR style cutterbar-- New Holland and Vermeer/Lely.

What I'd like is folks who've got one or had one, what their experiences are like-- what are things about the mower that you liked? Things you didn't like? How was maintenance? Hard to repair or easy? What about the driveshafts in the bar itself. We discussed the old problems they had with the driveshafts twisting into, as he put it "ornamental iron" and being hard to take apart-- he said that they've addressed that-- the new mowers have a hex shaft and each one only runs through a couple modules or something. Anybody have an corroborating or conflicting information on that?

If you've had a Vermeer or Lely cutter, I'd really like to hear your input. I like the New Holland design, that the bar can be split between any module and the adjacent spacer, but I've wondered about the strength, since basically the bar is being held together at each module by two bolts. The Vermeer, being stacked like a disk gang with a long through-bolt like a disk gang axle bolt, would seem quite a bit stronger, but more difficult to service, especially on inner modules. I liked the looks of their skid shoes and rock guards on the front of the bar, and the bar design in general... it just seemed HEFTY! A far cry from the thin stamped-steel everything of the Kuhns and other gearbed bar mowers I've looked at...

Good and bad, tell me all ya know!

Later! OL J R


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I have run the Vermeer 1030's Mower conditioners and now on my 6 th one.They run the same modules as the disc mowers.I've never had to take a bar apart.I've had 1 bearing go below the turtle but didn't hurt anything else.Cleaned out the oil of that module and replaced the bearing and good to go.I didn't have the entire bar contaminated like some other bars would that share the oil threw entire bar.

I do trade at about 5000 acres so I am getting the good out of the machine,but with regular maintenance they should run a long time.

The quick change blades are nice also.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My biggest complaint on my Vermeer is the cost of the blades. I like the idea of the quick change blades but the blades are more expensive than other brands of cutters and don't last for as many acres as my Krone cuter. My M7030 has cut many acres. It utilizes grease in each module instead of oil


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I have been considering the Vermeer MC 280 as it is the only 9 ft mower conditioner, side pull that offers both shear protection and steel on steel rollers. As you eluded to, they are Lely machines. BTW - you can download free manuals from Lely to get a better look-see.

I like the idea of modular cutter bars from a repair standpoint. However, IMHO - you've multiplied the potential seep/leak points. What I don't like about the Vermeer/Lely is the continuous hex driving the cutter heads. New Holland has the right idea here (IMHO) make modular include the drive shafts too.

Another area - maybe it's not a big deal, but can see both sides of the coin. Common oil bath vs oil separated into each module. With the common oil bar, it appears to be to me to be easy to change and check the bar oil. Krone doesn't recommend changing the bar oil - not sure I agree with that or would comply.

I like the JD modular cutter bar in that it is joined via bevels and ought to separate individual models very easily. I've read nothing but good things regarding JD's cutter bar's ruggedness and clean cut it. It is high on my list of potential loco's to buy - if I ever do....

Krone metal cutterbars: Krone has a couple of youtube videos showing the construction of their cutter bar. It is heavy duty and very simple. I like that the Krone cutter bar is pulled vs pushed too. I can't imaging going wrong with a Krone straight disc mower or mower conditioner.

Back to the Vermeer/Lely. Not sure I like the gas suspension system vs springs long term. Don't recall if the straight pull behind cutters use it. A local Vermeer dealer keeps in stock I believe a 9 ft pull behind disc mower (not conditioner) and it looks compact, easy to pull and heavy duty. In many ways - the long hex shaft and potential twisting of it - like the older New Idea 5209 models, is likely moot point given the cutter bar has shear hubs. What could possibly put the shaft in a bind - other than a seized bearing and how often does that happen. I have a lot of respect for Lely and even with my reservations, would not hesitate to buy (or take a chance) on one - if the deal is right.

Good luck,

Bill


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## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

leeave96 said:


> I have been considering the Vermeer MC 280 as it is the only 9 ft mower conditioner, side pull that offers both shear protection and steel on steel rollers. As you eluded to, they are Lely machines. BTW - you can download free manuals from Lely to get a better look-see.
> 
> I like the idea of modular cutter bars from a repair standpoint. However, IMHO - you've multiplied the potential seep/leak points. What I don't like about the Vermeer/Lely is the continuous hex driving the cutter heads. New Holland has the right idea here (IMHO) make modular include the drive shafts too.
> 
> ...


I want this to sound like sharing information rather than a sales pitch. 

The new Vermeer with the shear hub uses a sectional spline shaft rather than a long one hex like the first ones, or sectional hex like the last generation. Splined allows for easier timing. The shaft is long enough to cover three discs. The drive is sectional so it is cheaper to replace if one does twist and also so modules are easier to slide on and off the bar. I prefer this because I've seen the competition with the individual shafts get a lot of slop between the discs. This makes it hard to time. It is a bit more work to repair an individual module on the Vermeer but I have become fairly fast at it.

The gas suspension systems are hard to explain, but have worked well for us. The main advantage is the length of travel the mower can float up at an even pressure.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

E220 said:


> I want this to sound like sharing information rather than a sales pitch.
> 
> The new Vermeer with the shear hub uses a sectional spline shaft rather than a long one hex like the first ones, or sectional hex like the last generation. Splined allows for easier timing. The shaft is long enough to cover three discs. The drive is sectional so it is cheaper to replace if one does twist and also so modules are easier to slide on and off the bar. I prefer this because I've seen the competition with the individual shafts get a lot of slop between the discs. This makes it hard to time. It is a bit more work to repair an individual module on the Vermeer but I have become fairly fast at it.
> 
> The gas suspension systems are hard to explain, but have worked well for us. The main advantage is the length of travel the mower can float up at an even pressure.


So did this shorter shaft come on 2016 models? Where is the break over - were one looking at left over inventory? What about the long rod that holds the modules together? It looks to me to be continuous? Is it sectionalized too? My impression is - to change one module, the whole cutterbar has to come apart?

Have you serviced the gas suspension on any mowers, i.e. replaced seals or recharged it?

Are you typically selling flails or steel on steel rollers. What kind of feedback are you getting on steel rollers for either grass or alfalfa?

Thanks for the info!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

E220 said:


> The drive is sectional so it is cheaper to replace if one does twist and also so modules are easier to slide on and off the bar. I prefer this because I've seen the competition with the individual shafts get a lot of slop between the discs.


The hex drive shafts on older models aren't cheap. I replaced a 4' section that had broken on my M7030 this summer and shaft cost $248. That's $62 per ft for a shaft about the same size as a DIME


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## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

leeave96 said:


> So did this shorter shaft come on 2016 models?
> 
> Where is the break over - were one looking at left over inventory? What about the long rod that holds the modules together? It looks to me to be continuous? Is it sectionalized too? My impression is - to change one module, the whole cutterbar has to come apart?
> 
> ...





Tx Jim said:


> The hex drive shafts on older models aren't cheap. I replaced a 4' section that had broken on my M7030 this summer and shaft cost $248. That's $62 per ft for a shaft about the same size as a DIME
> 
> Yeah, sorry Jim. I should have said relatively cheap! We used to need to order the whole ten foot section. That was nearly the same price per foot.


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## duramax (Dec 18, 2010)

We've been running two TM1200 mowers for two years now. Excellent machines that cut a 15 1/2 ft swath. Have 7500 acres split between the two of them. Zero issues, well except when I found a hidden culvert with one this summer, hit it hard and bent the whole bar back. Broke two gear boxes and bent the shaft that holds it all together. Easy fix but somewhat costly. The modular system is fantastic, there are two hex shaft that drives them per bar. Never saw any wear on the one I destroyed. Had a TM1400 prior to the TM1200, had a lot of driveshaft issues with it. I can generalize some prices if you want.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Cool! Good information guys.

The ones I've been looking at have a square drive hole in the turtle that fits over the cast iron hub on the top of the module. He told me that the modules are filled with corn head grease; no oil to change. I'm familiar with corn head grease and it seems to do a good job and isn't anywhere near as prone to leaks or leaking out as heavy gear oil (85/140). The only thing he showed me that I didn't like was the sealed bearings they run in the modules for the cross-shaft gear and the turtle gear... IMHO I'd rather see an open-sided bearing that could share lube with the module. I had a hipper that we finally started just drilling grease ports in the land between the pressed-in sealed bearings, and popped the inner seal off each of the bearings and then pressed them in the housings, and I was NOT impressed with the little toothpaste-length dab of grease that they put in modern sealed bearings, and most of that isn't even in the path of the balls within the races, but off to the side or on the cage... I suppose one COULD do something similar with the inside seals of the bearings if one had to rebuild a module, so it could get grease from the module case.

Later! OL J R


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Luke

Operators manual for my M7030 states change grease in each module yearly or every 500 hrs of use. Granted M7030 is older and Vermeer engineers may have changed their opinion on grease change interval but I would want to read that info rather than rely on a salesman that might not know the difference between "come here" & "sic um"!!!! 

Jim


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Luke
> 
> Operators manual for my M7030 states change grease in each module yearly or every 500 hrs of use. Granted M7030 is older and Vermeer engineers may have changed their opinion on grease change interval but I would want to read that info rather than rely on a salesman that might not know the difference between "come here" & "sic um"!!!!
> 
> Jim


Good to know...

I'll have to look up the Lely books someone suggested... Take it they're linked to off their website somewhere??

Later! OL J R


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Good to know...
> 
> I'll have to look up the Lely books someone suggested... Take it they're linked to off their website somewhere??
> 
> Later! OL J R


Here is the link:

https://www.lely.com/us/techdocs/

In the search box, type in the name of the product name or model. For trailed mower conditioners, "Splendimo" and the pick the manual, language, etc. There is a whole list.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.lely.com/us/techdocs/
> 
> In the search box, type in the name of the product name or model. For trailed mower conditioners, "Splendimo" and the pick the manual, language, etc. There is a whole list.


Thanks! I appreciate it! I'll look it up.

Later! OL J R


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## duramax (Dec 18, 2010)

For us The TM1200 has been damn near indestructible, two new products of Vermeer to look at are TM1210 and the TM1410. The TM1210 has been tested and are a very well built mower.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

duramax said:


> For us The TM1200 has been damn near indestructible, two new products of Vermeer to look at are TM1210 and the TM1410. The TM1210 has been tested and are a very well built mower.


Thanks I'll have a look! OL J R


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