# Round baler opinions please



## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm running a 2014 JD 559, twine only, we make 5' x 5' bales usually, sometimes 5' x 4' for certain customers.

It's a good machine, I have yet to plug it, even at fairly high speeds on thick windrows.

I like it but I think I want to upgrade to a net wrap system.

I have priced the net wrap kit from the local JD dealer (about 11K) plus install.

The local Vermeer dealer is trying to sell me a new 2018 6650 Rancher, with net wrap AND twine capability.

They are offering a decent trade value for my JD.

Tempting.

Is the 6650 Rancher as good a baler as the JD 559?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I've owned 2 JD 467 mega-wide pickup balers traded 1st one with 30,000 bales on monitor in to get netwrap. Current 467 has 26,000+ bales with little to no problems. 467 is the best baler I've ever baled with & I've baled over 150,000 bales. Where I live one would wear out a pickup driving around looking for ""very many Vermeer hay balers out in the field baling hay"". There is one custom baler with a Vermeer 604M & R2300 rake that baled some Coastal hay down the rd from me on 2 different locations that the baler left a trail of hay on each side of where the windrow laid. Out of curiosity I checked moisture % of this Vermeer baled hay & it tested 13%. I think my JD 467 wouldn't have left these trails of hay.


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

I run a 664 rancher baler. The previous series that makes a 4 foot wide bale. I used to run a 535 Deere. Walk away fast. They have garbage resale and you will experience plugging. They can make a beautiful bale in the right conditions but a similar vintage Deere will out eat the rancher in just about any crop. Also the rancher baler has a chamber width pickup, a major downfall. If you buy a new rancher you will be kicking yourself. Buy another green one if you like the performance of the baler you have. If you were looking at a cheap used one like another forum member picked up then maybe. I think he paid in the neighborhood of 11k for a like new 6650.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Actually it was a 665 but it was 11k. Its really all about the windrows. It does sometimes leave a little hay but so does my rake sometimes. But the small amount of hay left isn't much. For me it seems it might be like 1 bale for 75 bales. I have not had plugging issues in the baler but i have had big windrows get caught up under the tractor and it ends up making a big ball that it too big to go into the baler. Its like the bunch of hay gets so big it is bigger than the baler opening then begins getting pushed by the baler. Only has happend a couple of times and i just back up and putthe loader down on it to push it down then suck that big bunch of hay up. This was on 4-5 bale an acre hay 5x5.5 using a 12 wheel rake set at 28 foot. So windrows were big.
What I do like about the rancher is its very simple. Look at a rancher then a deere and you will notice less moving parts. Then look at a new holland which has even more moving parts. 
The real downfall to the rancher is you are limited to a 66" tall bale. 
I believe if they made a 72" bale more people would have them.
I figured for 11k on a slightly used baler wasnt too bad. I figured if i didnt like it i could always sell it for minimal loss. I also have only ran one baler in my life and that would be the rancher. Quite possibly I do not know what i am missing. I will say the net wrap system has been great just load and go, have not had a single miss wrapped bale. I think i have baled about 800 bales so far this year with it. Just some chain lube, grease, and netwrap no repairs. Although when i bought it it was missing 2 teeth on one of the hay saver wheels and thr other day it i noticed it was missing 3. Bought a new wheel and will be installing it today.

Anothrr thing i dont like about it is you have to manualy crank the pickup up and down. I need to look into what it would cost to get a hydralic cylinder there as j think it was an option. I was also thinking about added a moisture sensor as that was an option also.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Here are a couple of bales from today, rancher 665 baler.


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## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

Nice bales, great windrows, Stx.


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

The John Deere is a lot more baler, but it is also a lot more money. I tried to save that money and bought a 6640 Rancher, made pretty bales when it worked by had all kinds of trouble with plugging and the netwrap system. Vermeer to their credit made it right and bought it back, very stand up there.

I replaced it with a new John Deere 460. It eats hay a lot faster, easier to use with the wide pickup. It has just been a breeze, just get in and go. I think the difference is that the John Deere has a stuffer roller behind the pickup that the Rancher doesnt have. Overall, it seems to be built sturdier and everything just worked perfect right out of the box.

The comparison is a little unfair though, again the Deere is over $10k more. A better comparison would be a 605 series or the vermeer pro series vs the Deere. The rancher is an entry level baler and the cost savings have to come from somewhere.

I would have keot my rancher had it not given me so many problems and was happy with it when it was working right. That said, the 460 is much more baler than the rancher was even when it was doing right. I dont think there is much difference between a 460 and a 459 though.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The Rancher is Vermeers economy model baler.They don’t sell any around here.


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## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> The Rancher is Vermeers economy model baler.They don't sell any around here.


I just learned that myself, from another local hay producer who stopped by the farm. He saw the new 6650 sitting in my yard (dropped off by the dealer to entice me into a purchase) He has an older model Vermeer with net wrap, and likes it, but it is the heavy duty version.

This talk got me comparing the two balers, the 559 definitely has a superior pick up system (mega wide)


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## notmydaytoday (Sep 16, 2016)

I have not tried either bale but talking to my neighbor he says his 504 Vemeer has bigger bearings that a Deere but it is a older model. He also said Vermeer make part for their balers for 25 years.

I talk to John Deer at farm show a couple weeks ago and they just wanted to tell me that I couldn't round bale without a 95 hp tractor not even a 4 ft wide baler.

While the Vermeer guys were telling me their 4 ft wide only need 40 hp so my 55 hp tractor would be fine.

Now maybe this it just one dealers opinion but i know there are a lot of people out there baling 4 ft wide round bales with small than 95 hp tractors so I am looking for a Vermeer as I question the John Deere dealers knowledge of equipment.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JD dealer that stated JD 4ft wide baler required 95 HP is dumber than a dog I once had that didn't know the difference between "come here from sic um". IIRC JD recommend 65 pto minimum HP for 4 ft baler making 6 ft tall bale. I've pulled my JD 467 rd baler making 4X5.5 bales with my Kubota M7040(64 pto hp) on flat ground with no problems. 40 HP minimum for Vermeer rd baler is for 4X5 baler not 4X6 bale.


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## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

notmydaytoday said:


> I have not tried either bale but talking to my neighbor he says his 504 Vemeer has bigger bearings that a Deere but it is a older model. He also said Vermeer make part for their balers for 25 years.
> 
> I talk to John Deer at farm show a couple weeks ago and they just wanted to tell me that I couldn't round bale without a 95 hp tractor not even a 4 ft wide baler.
> 
> ...





Tx Jim said:


> JD dealer that stated JD 4ft wide baler required 95 HP is dumber than a dog I once had that didn't know the difference between "come here from sic um". IIRC JD recommend 65 pto minimum HP for 4 ft baler making 6 ft tall bale. I've pulled my JD 467 rd baler making 4X5.5 bales with my Kubota M7040(64 pto hp) on flat ground with no problems. 40 HP minimum for Vermeer rd baler is for 4X5 baler not 4X6 bale.


If you are talking about the Rancher or R series and don't have too many hills, 60HP+ is fine. On the 504PRO baler, I wouldn't want less than 100HP. I imagine JD feels the same way.


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

There is a big difference between what you can do with a tractor and what you ought to do. We ran underpowered for years, and after finally moving up I realized that it really isnt so much the horsepower but the weight of a higher horsepower tractor that makes the difference. Another thing is that todays 4 foot bales are nothing like yesteryear’s bales. I have put up 4x64” that weighed 1300+ With the rancher. Now consider that the john deere baler is heavier than the rancher to begin with, and that it can make a dense bale up to a full 72”, and there is a lot of weight there. My 460 is supposedly good for 2200lb bales. On our hilly fields, you would definitely be uncomfortable with that setup and a 60hp tractor I assure you.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

KYhaymaker said:


> There is a big difference between what you can do with a tractor and what you ought to do. We ran underpowered for years, and after finally moving up I realized that it really isnt so much the horsepower but the weight of a higher horsepower tractor that makes the difference. Another thing is that todays 4 foot bales are nothing like yesteryear's bales. I have put up 4x64" that weighed 1300+ With the rancher. Now consider that the john deere baler is heavier than the rancher to begin with, and that it can make a dense bale up to a full 72", and there is a lot of weight there. My 460 is supposedly good for 2200lb bales. On our hilly fields, you would definitely be uncomfortable with that setup and a 60hp tractor I assure you.


A 4x62" bale weighing 1300+ lbs? Was this silage? A dry bale 5x6 tight tight tight might be 1300lbs. I have weighed 1500lbs bales once out of a new holland br7090 and it was so tight every bale that got moved the first week twine was popping and you could hardly stab the bale. Although here hay moisture is normally low so maybe yall bale alot wetter than us. 
But I had a custom baler bale some ryegrass that was on the wet side and thr bakes were baled pretty damn tight and they were probably at 1500lbs but that was a 5x6(full 72inches). But after they heated to 190 and shrank were alot lighter.
I have weighed alot of deere 568 and 569 bales and full size pressure at the highest on coastal mix they average 1050-1250. Niw it is possible every now and then one goes over the average but this is weighing a trailer load.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

A 5x6 should be more like 1500-1800 lbs, dry hay. I can make a cornstalk bale that weighs 1300, and be fairly dry.


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

StxPecans said:


> A 4x62" bale weighing 1300+ lbs? Was this silage? A dry bale 5x6 tight tight tight might be 1300lbs. I have weighed 1500lbs bales once out of a new holland br7090 and it was so tight every bale that got moved the first week twine was popping and you could hardly stab the bale. Although here hay moisture is normally low so maybe yall bale alot wetter than us.
> But I had a custom baler bale some ryegrass that was on the wet side and thr bakes were baled pretty damn tight and they were probably at 1500lbs but that was a 5x6(full 72inches). But after they heated to 190 and shrank were alot lighter.
> I have weighed alot of deere 568 and 569 bales and full size pressure at the highest on coastal mix they average 1050-1250. Niw it is possible every now and then one goes over the average but this is weighing a trailer load.


I weighed a load of 14, average came out at 1250#. They were set on 64", a few were slight under that and a few slightly over. I dont think a 4x5.5 or so is remarkable at all at 12-1300lbs these days. Most people who sell hay are not going to make them that tight for obvious reasons.


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