# First Time Bermuda Grower



## LilEZ (Aug 19, 2014)

I purchased my first used square baler about a month ago. We've put up a couple thousand squares in the barn since I got going. Hay is selling and the buyers seem pleased. I'm fairly new to hay making(4-5yrs experience)and I hate to have to turn away customers, but we keep getting alot of requests for bermuda that I don't have. I have a 6 acre hay field in nice shape that I would like to try bermuda in. I've talked to the extension agent brought it up to buddy at the local co-op, but I'm not really getting the picture as in, is there anything I need to be doing now in August. Everybody is telling me that I will break up the field in March-April and sprig it in May-June. Will I see a crop the first year? If your cutting bermuda 5x per season how many small squares should I get per acre each cut. Also, does anyone know of who I could buy sprigs from in NW Tn? Which is the best variety for my area? I know these are a ton of questions but I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it. I'm hearing that it's gonna cost me $500/acre to get it established and another $300/acre in maintaining it annually. Trying to make an educated decision on this field and I would greatly appreciate any advice...


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

If your really north in north west TN then I wouldn't go there . Bermuda does not like winter . I tried some Bermuda a few years ago and it came up , made some hay , but had a lot of cold weather that winter , 2013 , and NONE of it came back . EPIC fail . And it was wrangler Bermuda . Suppose to be winter tolerant . I do believe that if you could get it going with a fairly mild type winter and it have a couple years to get established it might survive the cold better but my experience isn't good with Bermuda .


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

Like me you are in the transition zone between warm season grass and cool season grass. Each will work but it is a short season for Bermuda grass as compared to the south and along the coastal areas. Bermuda really doesn't get going until the nights stay in the 70s, it likes heat, and likes to be fed. There is a somewhat new variety called Ozark that is suppose to be the most cold hardy of all be bermudas, it was bred by Ok State and KS State, my neighbor who is a big hay producer has some and is an excellent hay variety. Can't say what your establishment cost will actually be, but to get the most out of it, it needs moisture and fertilizer. Bermuda grass is a somewhat expensive crop to grow especially on marginal land and it will make your checkbook scream. I'm not trying to discourage you, it's just the reality of that particular crop in the transition zone area. You will get a cutting or two the first year, but there is one more thing, keeping it sprayed for unwanted weeds the first year and they will come with a vengeance. If the cost you quoted are anywhere near correct, I just don't see where you will come out ahead for quite sometime, if ever. And as siscofarms said if your winters are really cold you will have substantial winter kill up to and including the whole field, it's just the way it is this far north.


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## LilEZ (Aug 19, 2014)

Appreciate it guys, we do have a few Bermuda/Alfalfa growers that are somewhat close. I guess I might wanna go introduce myself. Our winters in Weakly county are typically ice if anything. Last year we had a couple weeks of ice (8-10 inches), then it was just cold. As far as a screaming check book, I think that all mine knows how to do... I've definitely burnt up 5k quicker just not with so much labor involved. I thought $500/acre sounded a little high too but figured they had to be throwing a general number and I would be abe to offset cost with me doing the work with my equipment. I've got ruffly 40-50k lbs of composted manure and a couple thousand pounds of worm castings that we've been sitting on and I think I can get a deal from a friend on chicken waste. Not that that would cover me for the year it's more to offset initial establishment sticker shock when prepping my seed bed. What about typical yields on non irrigated bermuda. Haven't found anyone to tell me where it should be so I can really start doing some math on this idea...


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

Typical yield will be around 4 to 5k lbs per acre per year, but that is at the mercy of fertility and moisture. could be higher could be lower. The key to yield with Bermuda, balanced fertility and water.


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## LilEZ (Aug 19, 2014)

K, thanks. Had a talk with farmer today and he brought up an idea I really hadn't considered. His idea was spray now for weeds and start working on my fertility. Then in the spring burn the field, drill bermuda (Tif 44), overseed like crazy every year. Then I would have an option to sell next year's hay as bermuda mix. He says I wouldn't lose any cuttings and the bermuda should crowd everything out completely by year 2 or 3. This way I shouldn't have all of the expense of time and labor and starting from scratch. I should continue getting hay. Seems to make sense to me. The field is small and a perfect test plot but I'd hate to lose the income from that field.


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## LilEZ (Aug 19, 2014)

Just sat down to put my figures together and I had to go back and look at what TJH said... Surely you wrote that wrong or maybe I'm reading it wrong. 5k lbs per year??? No way that's right, why would anyone grow bermuda. 50 lbs bales. With that math I should be getting 100 bales grand total per acre. 6 acres=600 bales for the year. Everyone I've spoke to about it says I should be getting 4 maybe 5 cutting per year in this area. That's alot of burnt petro for 600 bales. Cut,ted, rake and bale 6 acres, 5 times for 600 bales. There's no way you can make money like that.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I planted Cheyenne2 Bermuda this past spring. Pennington says yields should be 7.5 - 8 tons per acre per year.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

I have no idea what yields in your area might be, but here we average about 6T/ac/yr. That usually cost me a bit over $500/ac/yr to achieve. Bermuda love 3 things, fertilizer, heat, and water. Skimp on any one of em, especially the fertilizer and your milage will definitely vary. Here I find that it takes just as much potash as it does nitrogen to grow good bermuda.

Regards,

Steve


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

BERMUDAGRASS there are varieties that are adapted clear up to Ohio.
Kentucky has some information on bermudagrass.
You will not be growing Coastal or Tifton 85 but as long as you have an adapted variety it will literally grow like a weed.

I have half my fields in bermuda, with the other half in alfalfa. Each has it's own advantages.

Figure 6 weeks between cuttings. This should result in 12% CP hay, if you do your job in harvesting.
Bermuda has about 70% leaves and will shatter leaves if you are not careful.
Thing is bermudagrass hay will shatter more leaves than alfalfa when treated the same. I always have more leaves trapped in my baler from bermudagrass. Still the hay will look better than alfalfa, to the casual buyer.

Most bermuda types are a sod grass and will fill in the blanks.

I believe you will like it. One thing, HERE, bermudagrass does not NEED conditioning, to cure.

Go For It


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

I am in Paris and have been raising Bermuda for nearly 20 yrs, give me a call sometime and I will help you out as much as I can. I replanted a 20 acre field this yr and you are welcome to come look at it. I am about to make my last cutting next week though. I hate to cut a new stand this late but as you know we have been really dry for the last month. My number is 731-225-9451.

I was a member on this site for quite a while but haven't had time the last few yrs so I just now rejoined. I think my old username was red-n-green but I cant remember. I remember Hay Wilson

and many others. They are very smart so make sure to listen and retain what they tell you.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Welcome back Jay......


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

This is the first year growing Bermuda hay. Had it sprigged in April of 2015. When is the optimal time to cut Bermuda for hay


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Dirt farmer said:


> This is the first year growing Bermuda hay. Had it sprigged in April of 2015. When is the optimal time to cut Bermuda for hay


Tell us more.....what type, have you cut already? What about weeds? Kinda late to be cutting in N.C. But probably will be ok, depends on where I guess......I'll have to look up Winton......


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

I sprigged midland 99 In April. My first cutting was about middle of July. Then I sprayed pastora on it. That stunted it back about 3 weeks I guess. had a little crab grass. And some Palmer Ameranth The pastora wiped out that. I got 70 units of nitrogen and 35 units of potash this time around on it plus it's under a center pivot. I'm going to cut today at some point


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Dirt farmer said:


> I sprigged midland 99 In April. My first cutting was about middle of July. Then I sprayed pastora on it. That stunted it back about 3 weeks I guess. had a little crab grass. And some Palmer Ameranth The pastora wiped out that. I got 70 units of nitrogen and 35 units of potash this time around on it plus it's under a center pivot. I'm going to cut today at some point


I would raise my mower a bit and cut a it higher than normal going into fall ..... I ain't had any luck with Pastora and crab grass, come to think of it, I ain't any luck with anything (selective) on crab grass....


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Best thing we ever used on crabgrass was DSMA/MSMA... course that was in cotton.

Not sure the arsenicals are even made anymore, though... shame, because they worked good...

Later! OL JR


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

This article from Aggieland may help!

View attachment PUB_forage_Forage Bermudagrass.pdf


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> I would raise my mower a bit and cut a it higher than normal going into fall ..... I ain't had any luck with Pastora and crab grass, come to think of it, I ain't any luck with anything (selective) on crab grass....


I cut Yesterday and finished cutting today. Went out there and busted the windrows up with the Tedder. Since it's Wednesday. Maybe I'll bale on Friday. I do not hve a mower conditioner I have a john Deere W150. Windrower with a sickle bar draper head. It was bought for windrows sage. And I just decided to cut Bermuda with it. lm thinking about putting some potash out to help the roots through the winter. What's everybody's thoughts on that


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

"Windrower with a sickle bar draper head. It was bought for windrows sage. And I just decided to cut Bermuda with it."

A lecture on curing hay: Plants have holes in their leaves to let the moisture out so the soil moisture with it's nutrients can find room in the plant. As long as those holes are open the plant can pull in moisture & nutrients. These holes remain open as long as the plant is in direct sunlight.

Bury the leaves under a windrow the holes close. This stops the loss of moisture. The plant stops respiration somewhere between 48% and 40% moisture. As long as there is respiration the plant is alive and burning carbohydrates. This cost us total yield as well as nutritional value.

Lesson: Do not burry the living plant tissue in the darkness under a windrow, or even mow in a dark cloudy day..

Plus the direct rays of sunshine will heat the sap, increasing the temperature and building vapor pressure. This results in an even faster discharge of plant moisture.

At least HERE in Central Texas the moisture in the leaves will be to low to support respiration in about 5 hours.

It is my contention that if you plan to use a tedder the second morning, just lay the hay out in a wide swath and leave it lay until the leaves are effectively dead.

HERE bermudagrass cut with a simple mower, with the swath board removed, will cure faster than hay that is dropped into a windrow. Some mower conditioners can allow a wide swath and not leave a windrow. My NH 411 has chaff spreaders to open the swath to cover 88% of the available ground. This is used only if I have enough johnsongrass or weeds to need cracking the stems.

Sorry for the too long a presentation.


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

Got another question maybe somebody can answer Bales 18 acres. With a round and square baler. Checked the moister on the bales right out the back of the baler. The moister was anywhere between 10.6 and 15. The next day I checked the square bales and the moister was around. And 20%. That's fine. But the moister of the round bales was 25 to 40%. Both were baled right side by side I'm wondering why the round bales almost doubled in moister. I understand the moister rising but doubling makes. No since. What could be the problem


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

Got another question maybe somebody can answer Bales 18 acres. With a round and square baler. Checked the moister on the bales right out the back of the baler. The moister was anywhere between 10.6 and 15. The next day I checked the square bales and the moister was around. And 20%. That's fine. But the moister of the round bales was 25 to 40%. Both were baled right side by side I'm wondering why the round bales almost doubled in moister. I understand the moister rising but doubling makes. No since. What could be the problem


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

The more densely packed round bales cannot breathe as well as small squares. They are just going through the sweat process which is common for round and large squares. This process is going to increase moisture content. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the moisture content if I baled at 10 to 15% but I would monitor the heat in the bales for a couple weeks before putting them in a barn or stacking. The 40% you were testing after baling was the wetter spots. I wouldn't consider it a problem. Maybe someone else can elaborate a little more on this with a more technical answer.


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

Have a few bales that went though a heat. And are showing a slight bit of mold on the out side. Anybody got any ideas. On what to do with them


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Dirt farmer said:


> Have a few bales that went though a heat. And are showing a slight bit of mold on the out side. Anybody got any ideas. On what to do with them


Might want to calibrate that tester.....what kinda mold on the outside? Got any pics?


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

No don't hAve pictures. One spot about the size of your fist is black mold. And the rest is white mold Long story. But anyway. I was trying to bale it as early as I could to keep the green color of the hay. But those 7 bales didn't keep. They are 4x5 round bales I ended up waiting one mor day to bale the rest of it


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Dirt farmer said:


> No don't hAve pictures. One spot about the size of your fist is black mold. And the rest is white mold Long story. But anyway. I was trying to bale it as early as I could to keep the green color of the hay. But those 7 bales didn't keep. They are 4x5 round bales I ended up waiting one mor day to bale the rest of it


So those that have mold were baled a day earlier, before the measurements? That's prolly the difference.....Bermuda dries down fairly quickly but sometimes it takes a bit to get that last 3-5% done, sometimes an additional day or more depending on available sunshine and relative humidity. What type Bermuda grass is this?


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

Midland 99.


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

Find someone that's feeding cattle already and let them have it cheap. They can roll them out and let the cattle eat what they want. If the hay is moldy in the bale, the mold will just continue to eat the nutrients of the hay and then it's just gully material.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Moisture testers can lead you astray. Especially with large bales.

All of them are reporting Average Moisture. We can have dry as popcorn leaves and still have way too much moisture in the stems. As it has been mentioned this is the source for hay sweating. With large and dense bales it is more difficult enough for this moisture to escape to the free air from inside these small squares, baled a little loose.

With a greater mass and a denser packing that extra stem moisture may not make it to free air.

Been there done that.

Baled some round bales before the all the moisture has escaped and we have heating and mold &c. Baled 5X5 RBs and set them in the hay YARD. Sold some to a neighbor and his cattle would not eat the stuff. In sides were white with mold. Not all of them but way too many.

Tried a lot of things. Used Acid to prevent mold. That works but as the moisture finally escapes the bales loose structural strength. My square bales would flatten out and were impossible to stack on a truck. Many times the stacks would shift enough to dump bales on to the barn floor.

Lord Love a Duck, I have made my share of mistakes. Costly Mistakes. So many mistakes I can not remember all of them, not with out a reminder.


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## Dirt farmer (Sep 14, 2015)

That's a true statement about moister testers. I've had a moister tester to read 12%. And 3 hours laters. The same bale read 30%. It can throw you for a loop


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