# NH 1431



## 3srcattleco (Apr 24, 2014)

A good friend of mine has a new holland 1431 and has had problems with it for two years. The dealer can't get it fixed either. (which the same NH dealer is the reason I switched to deere). He gave it to me for two years if I can get it fixed. It won't stay in time. Is it worth it?


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## HayBalerTech (Jun 15, 2015)

This is a 1431 discbine right? What won't stay in time?


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## 3srcattleco (Apr 24, 2014)

Yea discbine. The cutter bar I'm thinking. I'm not sure I've yet to pick it up and look at it. Just curious if these are troublesome machines.


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## HayBalerTech (Jun 15, 2015)

They are pretty simple machines really. I would start by grabbing hold of each turtle(this is the big top piece that the knives mount onto) and turn them all around by hand. If at any point you feel them "jump" then there is probably a gear tooth broke in the module. If they don't "jump" then all is well.
To time the cutter bar modules simply remove all the turtles off the cutter bar( be sure not to mix these around b/c there are clockwise and counterclockwise turtles). Now start at one end and work your way down and put all of the four bolt discs oriented the same way on the center splined shaft(it is important to torque this center bolt-128ft. lbs.).
Now install all the turtles back on. They each need to be 1/4 turn from each other. Start at one end again and put one on facing front to back, the next left to right. Do this all the way down and you will have completed the timing.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

A 1431 could be impossible to time as set out by Hay BalerTech which has one cause or could be timed and as it runs "go out of time".

In between each module on the 1431 there is a shaft that transmits power from one module to the next.The shaft has splines on each end that fit into female splined receivers which are the bevelled gears in the bottom module that drive the top module. These are on each side of the bottom modules.

From time-to-time one or more of the shafts can be "handed".

i.e. the the shaft becomes twisted such that the splines are no longer in time with each end which upsets the timing of the cutter heads.

If handing has occurred the turtles cannot be timed as outlined by HayBalerTech.

On the 1431 you may also encounter the machine "going out of time if one of these inter-module shafts is broken (sheared off).

The 1431 has a drive to each end of the cutter bed.

Time the turtles as outlined by HayBalerTech across the cutter bed and the turtles with the broken shaft between will go out of time as the drives at each end of the cutter bed drive at very slightly different speeds

The solution is to replace the offending shaft wether it be handed or broken

Each shaft is in an intermodule casting held together with two large bolts that have a nut on each end. Do not know the tightening torque for these but it is considerable. You need a very high quality ring spanner to undo the nuts, I now have a collection of combination spanners with the ring spanner end blown apart.

I managed to lay my hands on a spanner from the mid 1950's being "King Dick" brand. They had a lovely turn of phrase for a registered brand in those days!

I usually have to swing on a 6 or 7 foot length of pipe to undo or do up those nuts. A socket spanner will not fit as there is insufficient clearance over the nut.

Only one module needs to be undone and I suggest you loosen the nuts before removing the cutter bed from the mower conditioner.

METHOD:

Raise the moco and activate the locks on the lift cylinders, block it in the raised position.

Loosen but do not undo the nuts where the cutter bed is to be split.

Put a jack under one side of the cutter bed adjacent to where it is to be split.

Place a trolley jack under the other side of where the cutter bed is to be split.

Place a further trolley jack under the cutter bed at the end of the bed on the same side as the first trolly jack.

Ensure that section of the cutter bed cannot rotate and fall off the jacks when it iis released from the machine.

Undo the nuts (loosened earlier) securing the end of the cutter bed under which the trolley jacks are situated.

Lower the trolley jack at the end to release the splined drive that is located at that end, the splines slide into the universal joint that sits in the top hat or tower.

Move the cutter bed on the trolley jacks to separate it from the part of the cutter bed still attached to the moco.

Remove and replace the shaft now visible, taking care to ensure the shaft fits into the splines securely.

Slide the cutter bed on the trolley jacks back to the cutter bed section that is still attached to the moco.

Lightly tension the nuts that secure the cutter bed sections together.

Raise the end of the cutter bed to re-engage the splined drive.

Reattach the cutter bed to the moco.

Tighten the nuts to some huge torque, no doubt there is a value in the workshop manual.

Re-attach the cutter bed to the moco.

Check timing of all cutter heads.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

3srcattleco said:


> A good friend of mine has a new holland 1431 and has had problems with it for two years. The dealer can't get it fixed either. (which the same NH dealer is the reason I switched to deere). He gave it to me for two years if I can get it fixed. It won't stay in time. Is it worth it?


These are generally very reliable fast strong machines but have a few idiosyncrasies.

I have found that the cutter gets its best float if adjusted each year. The springs supplied are barely sufficient and if left tensioned when the machine is in storage they weaken.

So when putting into storage lower the machine to the ground and release the tension on the lift springs.

Re-tension before next use.

I set the machine to float just clear of the skid plates. This reduces wear on the skid plates and since the machine is quite heavy reduces the likelihood of damage from encountering obstacles on the ground.

If in an area blessed with small rocks the machine can throw them into the rear of your tractor with considerable force, breaking windows or heads or both.

Solution is to fit a polycarbonate sheet to the rear of your tractor. Cheaper than a new window and less painful if an open station tractor. But then again some have a more tender hip-pocket nerve than their cranium nerve.

Oil of correct grade, proper quantity in the modules is critical. hech the oil levels reguarly and I do not mean every 10 years but regularly and often.

These will mow as fast as your tractor can go, but as with all discbines they soak up the power.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It sounds like the cutterbar has a lot of wear. The best thing to do is remove the bar from the machine and split at each module. Check the splines on the shafts and the pinion gears. In addition you need to check the mating surfaces of the modules and spacers, particularly if the dowel pins are tight in the spacers and the mating holes in the modules are round and not elongated. Repeat failures can be attributed to misalignment at the connection between the module and spacer. Depending on the age of the machine the spacers may have a slight offset on one side. It runs front to back and the purpose is to bow the bar slightly. The later spacers have the offset. There is a shim kit available for earlier machines to bow the cutterbar.

I made a tool so I could tighten the cutter bar bolts without having the cutter bar on the machine, which makes the job a lot easier. I took a 10 ft length of 1 1/2" square tubing and drilled two holes about 8" apart in the center of the length of tube. I then welded two 3/4 nuts centered over the holes. I then took a piece of 3/4 x 1 1/2 flat steel and drilled two holes in it to match the holes in the square tubing. Place the tubing under one of the spacers and using two 3/4 bolts with the plate on top of the spacer and tighten, Place a jack stand under one end of the long square tubing. Now when you tighten the nuts the cutterbar will not move.

There are special tools available to tighten the bar bolts properly. When the machine was new NH recommended torqueing the nuts to 50 ft/lbs. Mark each nut and the spacer so the marks align. Then give each one additional turn, 6 flats of the nuts. Now the procedure is oil the bolts with 80/90 oil, torque to 50 ft/lbs, mark the nuts and spacer so the marks align and then tighten 5 flats. I split the difference and do 5 1/2 flats

Timing is critical on the first and second discs and the ninth and tenth disc because they turn in the same direction. Place new knives on each of those discs. Pull the knives so they are straight out. turn the disc in the direction they turn by turning on the discs WITH the vertical drive shafts. Check the clearance between the knives at the front and the back. You want this distance to be equal at both the front and back. BE SURE THE KNIVES ARE STRAIGHT OUT or you will not get it timed correctly. There are four possible positions to place the hub, so you should get fairly close.

If you remove the bolt holding the hub on be sure to replace it with a new bolt that has the locking patch. Do not use a generic bolt. Torque to 135 ft/lbs


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## 3srcattleco (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks guys. I'm familiar with cutter bars my two new ideas run hex shafts vs the spline (harder to tell if twisted) my nh h6830 runs spline but it's new haven't been in the cutter bar on it yet. I was curious whether they are prone to this or what's most common. If the bottom bearings are bad the twist of the shaft can make it out of time as well. It's a well used machine but the price is right I think.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

From Mike10:

"I made a tool so I could tighten the cutter bar bolts without having the cutter bar on the machine, which makes the job a lot easier. I took a 10 ft length of 1 1/2" square tubing and drilled two holes about 8" apart in the center of the length of tube. I then welded two 3/4 nuts centered over the holes. I then took a piece of 3/4 x 1 1/2 flat steel and drilled two holes in it to match the holes in the square tubing. Place the tubing under one of the spacers and using two 3/4 bolts with the plate on top of the spacer and tighten, Place a jack stand under one end of the long square tubing. Now when you tighten the nuts the cutterbar will not move."

I like your thinking Mike10 and your stabiliser bar, My method is a lot harder. Then again I have only done this in the heat of battle and once with a 1411 in the field, replacing a middle bottom module without removing the cutter bar from the machine. The experience is one I do not wish to repeat so have removed the machine to the workshop for bottom module and inter-module shaft replacements.

Wish I had been on Haytalk before wrestling with my replacements.


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