# Let's talk about raking time



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

A few years ago I started off with just my little 5.2 acre field. Last year I added another 7 acre field, and then started putting up 5 acres of hay for my neighbor lady down the road who has all her own equipment but her husband left her. So I was doing 17 acres total. Enough to be fun, but not stressful. I usually do my 12 on the same day and hers on a different day.

This summer it's looking like I'm going to add on another 20 acre field and another 34 acres have been offered up to me beyond that if I ever feel like I can take it on someday. I'll need upgraded equipment by that point.

So in just a few years I went from 5 acres to 37 acres. I mow with a 9 foot haybine on day 1, ted with a 2 basket tedder on day 2, and rake with a 9 foot Miller Pro 900 rotary rake on day 3, and then square bale. If I'm raking at 5-6 mph I can rake about 5 acres/hr (that's based on how much I can cover with the haybine at the same speed). By that time estimate it would take me 4 hours to rake. Then I unhook and grab the baler.

That seems like a long time, or is that standard for what you guys are doing? As I add on more acreage I'm trying to figure out how to put down acres (with what I have currently) most efficiently. It was never an issue when I had a little 5 and 7 acre field right next to the house or a few blocks down the road, but this larger field is about 5 miles away so the travel time is more significant when moving 16 mph.

I could use the neighbor lady's restored 4010 to run the baler while I'm still raking, but it becomes a 9 mile hike for that tractor to get to the field.

Here's the other problem with raking speed: my 4610 in 6th gear at PTO speed runs around 5-6 mph, so that's spinning the rake full speed, I read most people run it about 300 rpm. 7th gear on the tractor jumps to 12 mph but if I throttle down to a realistic speed then PTO speed seems almost too low. It's a really nice tractor but the field speeds are one thing I really don't like about it. It's either crawling slow or blazing fast.

All tips and suggestions are appreciated for strategy, and what my expectations should be.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Helps to have second tractor raking


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

That is the one thing about older tractors and pto driven rotary rakes you dont have the right gears to pick your speed. You should be on a smooth field in good hay in the 7 -10 mph range. I know the tractor I use 6th gear is slow and 7th to fast although I will rake in 7th at half to 3/4 throttle if the field is flat and smooth, wish I had a gear in between. Dont know about the deere maybe that would be a better raking tractor maybe a little overkill but it might have a better gear selection to get that speed up just a bit.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

danwi said:


> That is the one thing about older tractors and pto driven rotary rakes you dont have the right gears to pick your speed. You should be on a smooth field in good hay in the 7 -10 mph range. I know the tractor I use 6th gear is slow and 7th to fast although I will rake in 7th at half to 3/4 throttle if the field is flat and smooth, wish I had a gear in between. Dont know about the deere maybe that would be a better raking tractor maybe a little overkill but it might have a better gear selection to get that speed up just a bit.


I've raked with the Deere using my rake last year. It does have a better gear selection for sure. Last year I had to just go in 7th gear with my 4610 and throttle down, which was still moving at a good clip. Although I've also read if you go too fast with a rotary it doesn't fluff the hay as nice.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Had the same issues when I had to use my JD401 to ted in a pinch, one gear too slow, next one too fast. A tractor with a power shift is great for tedding or raking, usually can find jus the right speed. I use my Grandfathers Oliver 1600 for tedding now, even though its only a twelve speed it has some very usable speeds out of the twelve for tedding.


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## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

Definitely have to watch your speed with a rotary rake, too fast = missed hay especially on bumpy ground.

We have the luxury of a second tractor for raking, it has good gearing for appropriate raking speed with a rotary on bumpy ground. Would like to say what speed that is but we don't know, the tach is broken, and has been for the 22 years we've owned the tractor.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> A few years ago I started off with just my little 5.2 acre field. Last year I added another 7 acre field, and then started putting up 5 acres of hay for my neighbor lady down the road who has all her own equipment but her husband left her. So I was doing 17 acres total. Enough to be fun, but not stressful. I usually do my 12 on the same day and hers on a different day.
> 
> This summer it's looking like I'm going to add on another 20 acre field and another 34 acres have been offered up to me beyond that if I ever feel like I can take it on someday. I'll need upgraded equipment by that point.
> 
> ...


I think you are fast approaching if not already crossed the amount of acreage that your current equipment will be able to handle efficiently. I have a bit larger equipment then you do, but my raking takes about the same time or a little less then cutting hay. Unless I ted then I take a bit longer. My swather is 13 feet and the rake 24 feet. I go about 6-7 mph with the rake and rake two swaths together. The swather depending on the smoothness of the field goes about 11 mph. Now with my baler it bales most of the time at about 6 mph. So for example a 74 acre field I cut in about 5 hours, rake in about 5 hours and bale in about 5 hours. If I ted then I have to spend more time raking as the tedder spreads the hay beyond what the rake can get so there are a couple rounds extra I have to do with the rake to get everything. When I'm raking that big of a field I typically start raking maybe 2-3 hours before it's ready to bale. So then I'm about done raking when I have my baling man show up. Then when I'm done raking I go straight to stacking and can most of the time get nearly caught up by the time my guy is done baling.

I do think you are raking at about the speed you or anyone could for having a single rake and spreading the hay all out with your tedder. Since you ted your hay the size of your swather doesn't matter with regard to raking speed. I don't think you could get much faster unless you went to a double rake of some sort. But then maybe your baler wouldn't be able to handle the size of windrows.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Teslan said:


> I think you are fast approaching if not already crossed the amount of acreage that your current equipment will be able to handle efficiently. I have a bit larger equipment then you do, but my raking takes about the same time or a little less then cutting hay. Unless I ted then I take a bit longer. My swather is 13 feet and the rake 24 feet. I go about 6-7 mph with the rake and rake two swaths together. The swather depending on the smoothness of the field goes about 11 mph. Now with my baler it bales most of the time at about 6 mph. So for example a 74 acre field I cut in about 5 hours, rake in about 5 hours and bale in about 5 hours. If I ted then I have to spend more time raking as the tedder spreads the hay beyond what the rake can get so there are a couple rounds extra I have to do with the rake to get everything. When I'm raking that big of a field I typically start raking maybe 2-3 hours before it's ready to bale. So then I'm about done raking when I have my baling man show up. Then when I'm done raking I go straight to stacking and can most of the time get nearly caught up by the time my guy is done baling.
> 
> I do think you are raking at about the speed you or anyone could for having a single rake and spreading the hay all out with your tedder. Since you ted your hay the size of your swather doesn't matter. I don't think you could get much faster unless you went to a double rake of some sort. But then maybe your baler wouldn't be able to handle the size of windrows.


 So if it takes you 5 hrs to rake and another 5 hrs to bale, are there a few hrs of overlap there? Your baling guy starts about 2 hours after you start?

I have also considered getting an addition V rake for the larger fields, since you can get them pretty cheaply and there's not a lot to go wrong with them, it would help my raking times. This would also allow me to have 2 fields being raked at the same time.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> So if it takes you 5 hrs to rake and another 5 hrs to bale, are there a few hrs of overlap there? Your baling guy starts about 2 hours after you start?
> 
> I have also considered getting an addition V rake for the larger fields, since you can get them pretty cheaply and there's not a lot to go wrong with them, it would help my raking times. This would also allow me to have 2 fields being raked at the same time.


Depending on the day yes he will start about 2-3 hours after I start raking. Like I will start raking at 10 am and he will come and start baling at about 12:30 or so. Just depends on how warm and dry it gets on any given day. But sometimes I can't have him start baling at all until I'm done raking hay. On the smaller fields I don't need him really at all.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> So if it takes you 5 hrs to rake and another 5 hrs to bale, are there a few hrs of overlap there? Your baling guy starts about 2 hours after you start?
> 
> I have also considered getting an addition V rake for the larger fields, since you can get them pretty cheaply and there's not a lot to go wrong with them, it would help my raking times. This would also allow me to have 2 fields being raked at the same time.


By the way I can't do that with my V-rake. It doesn't allow the hay to dry out enough like the windrow the rotary makes. The rotary saves about 2 hours of drying time compared to the V-rake do to the way it fluffs the windrow.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I’ve got a little twin rotor that in a pinch will suck down two 10 ft windows. It’s still annoying to spend 2 hours raking for 5 hours of baling. Would love to get a bigger one that would take 30 ft of hay. Bought a single rotor 14 ft Kuhn last year to try as well but it’s no faster. Some day I’ll get it sorted!


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

2nd Tractor to rake while you bale. If you're lucky, might be able to rake the day before.

If you're a one man army, you got to go wider, i.e. 4 basket tedder and wider rake. Are you selling your hay to horses? If not, then perhaps a cheap, but wider V wheel rake. A 9ft rollabar rake, like the NH 258 or a tandem hitch. According to the NH manual I have, 5mph gives a reel speed of 100 RPMs and is recommended best operating speed for good windrows.

Are you making little squares?

I would not borrow another tractor unless you're prepared to fix it on a breakdown.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

Raking hay is a time consuming process if done correctly. First of all anytime you combine windrows you are hindering drying so for sm squares that is not a good idea IMO. I would not take a wheel rake as a gift for my operation again MO. I have 2 rotary rakes a 9' kuhn and 11' kuhn they save time because they aid the drying process and allow me to bale sooner. For that to happen you need to rake correctly and make windrows that aid the drying process and that is where you lose some time. For our operation we are a three man team so baling can start while someone else finishes raking. I guess what I am trying to say if you want to make quality hay you can't take a short cut with raking. If you are round baling hay to feed your cows you can but not if you plan to sell hay in small squares.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Beav said:


> Raking hay is a time consuming process if done correctly. First of all anytime you combine windrows you are hindering drying so for sm squares that is not a good idea IMO. I would not take a wheel rake as a gift for my operation again MO. I have 2 rotary rakes a 9' kuhn and 11' kuhn they save time because they aid the drying process and allow me to bale sooner. For that to happen you need to rake correctly and make windrows that aid the drying process and that is where you lose some time. For our operation we are a three man team so baling can start while someone else finishes raking. I guess what I am trying to say if you want to make quality hay you can't take a short cut with raking. If you are round baling hay to feed your cows you can but not if you plan to sell hay in small squares.


I agree about the wheel rake. I just keep my Kuhn Speedrake wheel rake as a spare in case something happens to the Krone double rotary. Someday it will probably be worth more as a spare then any money I could get for it if I sold it.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

Teslan said:


> I agree about the wheel rake. I just keep my Kuhn Speedrake wheel rake as a spare in case something happens to the Krone double rotary. Someday it will probably be worth more as a spare then any money I could get for it if I sold it.


I traded my speed rake for 4221 rotary that's my spare and if we have help we'll run both rakes


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Beav said:


> I traded my speed rake for 4221 rotary that's my spare and if we have help we'll run both rakes


I'd like to have a double rotary spare, but those kinda get pricey for a spare or if the price is low they are a wreck. I do have a single Kuhn Rotary, but that is about useless for big square baling if used as a spare.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I’m sorta in the same spot 3 of us make the hay on our farm but some days it’s hard to get one of us here. Between my work , my sons high school commitments and my buddies schedule we get it done but some days it’s a stretch. I’m looking to move up to a double rotary rake but also thinking of just getting another single rake . I try to cut a minimum of a 1000 bales when I cut on low yielding hay that can be a lot of acres more than once I have caught up to the rake . Plus on my heavy ground if it ain’t raked up it won’t finish drying I basically have to be in a drought to rake the day before. So I’m leaning towards a double rotary but time and $ will tell.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm assuming you have all grass? If so I would take a look at a hydraulic twin bar rake. They do a nice job in grass. Not quite as fluffy a windrow as a rotary but pretty good. We can cover about 20 acres an hour with a Vermeer R2300 in a larger field, smaller fields aren't quite as efficient.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Teslan said:


> Depending on the day yes he will start about 2-3 hours after I start raking. Like I will start raking at 10 am and he will come and start baling at about 12:30 or so. Just depends on how warm and dry it gets on any given day. But sometimes I can't have him start baling at all until I'm done raking hay. On the smaller fields I don't need him really at all.


Is there still dew on the hay sometimes when you rake it with the rotary rake? Some mornings here there is a very heavy dew that might not be completely gone until about 1 pm. If it's a sunny day and a bit of a breeze the dew is gone quickly. What I'm wondering is if I can rake it when there's still some dew on it, if it will completely dry by baling time. I was also wondering if the raking action would knock some of the dew off. I've always played it conservatively before and raked once all dew was gone. I've only had my rotary rake one season so haven't been able to experience how much faster it dries the hay.

There's very little wind here so can't count on it very much for helping hay to dry.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

leeave96 said:


> 2nd Tractor to rake while you bale. If you're lucky, might be able to rake the day before.
> 
> If you're a one man army, you got to go wider, i.e. 4 basket tedder and wider rake. Are you selling your hay to horses? If not, then perhaps a cheap, but wider V wheel rake. A 9ft rollabar rake, like the NH 258 or a tandem hitch. According to the NH manual I have, 5mph gives a reel speed of 100 RPMs and is recommended best operating speed for good windrows.
> 
> ...


Most of the hay I make is sold for horses (it's used for my horses too), but some people buy it for goats as well.

I'm making little squares. Maybe in a few years I'll break into rounds, we'll see.

How is the 9 ft rollabar wider than my 9 foot rotary? It's a 9 foot clean swept width, working width is 13 ft.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> I'm assuming you have all grass? If so I would take a look at a hydraulic twin bar rake. They do a nice job in grass. Not quite as fluffy a windrow as a rotary but pretty good. We can cover about 20 acres an hour with a Vermeer R2300 in a larger field, smaller fields aren't quite as efficient.


I should have explained what my fields were...

The 5.2 acre field next to my house was all grass, but last fall I had it overseeded with no till drill with alfalfa, timothy, and orchard grass at 40 lbs acre/each. I fertilize that field every year. It will have a lot of alfalfa in it this year based on what I saw coming up last fall, unless there's a lot of winter kill.

The 7 acre field is all grass with 5-10% red clover. That field makes really nice grass hay. I'm having dairy manure spread on that this week since the land lady wants to keep that land chemical free/organic.

The 20 acre field I'm likely taking on is grass/alfalfa, my neighbor who has baled it before said second cutting was about 70% alfalfa. But it is an old stand so I don't know how much alfalfa is still in there, and it doesn't get fertilized.

My neighbor lady's field is about 5 acres but I use all her equipment to do that one. I do bring my rake over since she has an old rollabar rake which is a PITA. That field is shaped like a jigsaw puzzle piece so is annoying in every way. All my other fields are nice squares or rectangles.

I have found that in light cuttings where the grass isn't very tall, the hay gets picked up by the baler better when you use a rollabar rake since it ropes it a bit. With the fluffy windrows from the rotary rake I notice while a lot less hay is left on the ground than a rollabar, the hay isn't picked up by the baler as efficiently as the baler tines just keep kicking a lot of the hay forward.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I don't think its ever advisable to rake dew into a windrow in a non arid climate. The more humid the weather, the longer I wait to rake, relaying more on solar exposure for the final dry down. In the last 10 years, I have been working at making the raked windrow wider so as to maintain solar exposure even after raking.


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## wvfarmboy54 (Feb 7, 2018)

i agree its hard tofind a tractor geared right for raking, i use a v rake pulled with a 3600 ford in 6th gear its about right, my 4600 in 6 gear in a tad slower, same goes for tedding, i can rake enough hay in a hour to bale in the afternoon, as i do it all by myself.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I am a one man operation, so I seldom figure to do much over 300 bales at a time! I'm thinking that you might want to take a similar approach, maybe 400 or 500 at a time, instead of trying to get the whole crop at once!

JMHO, YMMV, HTH, Dave

PS: You can see what I have for equipment listed below, and NO! you do NOT need a 100 HP tractor to make hay!

Again, JMHO, well, maybe not so humble!


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