# Grading system for hay



## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

*Hay grading system*​
*Would you use a grading system to help market your hay?*

Yes642.86%No750.00%Only if it were published by an official agency17.14%


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok guys, so I have to write and defend a thesis to graduate college and I'm trying to make it something really meaningful that will help people. The idea I would like to pursue is a standardized grading system for hay. Now hang on, I know you're going to say that there is too much variability and difference in the types of hay we all make due to geographic differences and such, but I intend to overcome that.

So far the general gist is I want to have general guidelines and 4 or 5 grades of hay, which will take in to account grass v legume, stem size, nutrient content, weathering/general appearance, mold/dust, and bale weight, as well as supporting literature about the various values on a nutrient test report, as well as recommendations based on the species the hay will be fed to.

I would enjoy hearing y'all's thought and suggestions, and would also like to know how many of you would consider using the system if developed.

Please also include the types of hay you grow and sell (specific grass species, bale type and approximate weight, as well as nutrient info if you have it)

If I can refine this enough I plan to run with it, to Texas Agri-life extension service, and maybe even all the way to the USDA to be adopted as the standard for pricing hay.

My hope for this project is to both educate consumers of hay and help producers, such as myself, who take pride in their product to differentiate themselves from Joe blow down the road who sells hay cheaper but doesn't tell you bout the thorns and mold in his hay.

This isn't a for profit project, it's more of me trying to help our industry. If you reply with info you would like included in the project please include your name and I will credit you in my project.

Thanks again guys and gals.

Troy McDonald

TAMU-C Ag business VP

TAMU-C Honors College '19


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I currently use the system used by the USDA. Here's a link to one of their web sites--look at the bttom of the page for their grading system.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/gx_gr312.txt

I grow alfalfa, orchard grass and a little fescue.

Ralph


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> I currently use the system used by the USDA. Here's a link to one of their web sites--look at the bttom of the page for their grading system.
> 
> https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/gx_gr312.txt
> 
> ...


I have seen this before, Texas sends out a weekly hay report as well. I think the Alfalfa portion is well developed but the grass portion leaves something to be desired since it only considers crude protein. Thanks!


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

I have bought and sold hay my entire career. I have watched hay auctions and wondered why people bought different hays the way they did. One thing I am certain of is the customer is nearly always right!


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

And the only time he is wrong is if his chq bounces.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Waterway64 said:


> I have bought and sold hay my entire career. I have watched hay auctions and wondered why people bought different hays the way they did. One thing I am certain of is the customer is nearly always right!


I believe most of the time they buy off of gut feel, which for someone who has bought and sold a lot of hay, has a good gut, but for the inexperienced, their gut is almost always wrong.

E.g., I have two customers who are neighbors. The one called me for hay, the other didn't, saying my hay was too expensive. I took his hay to auction on Friday, and delivered to my customer on Monday.

I saw some nice looking bales at his place and took a closer look--they were my bales. (My bales are marked with field ID and cutting number.)

He paid more at auction than I charged delivered and had to haul it himself. I took a hit for the hauling and the commission. He took a hit for having to spend a big chunk of the day at auction, hauling himself and paying more.

The auction made out on both ends. And the ends lost!

Ralph


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

That's a sticky question for me and can see the pros and cons of each option for my rinky-dink operation.

The "yes" option is enticing for me to poke a mouse at, but I figure the guy that bales ditch hay and is selling for $2 a bale will claim his to be the highest grade even when it isn't. That puts a nine-line-bind on a guy that is conservative and tries not to oversell the quality of his hay. (I tend to undersell the quality...or at least tell ALL of the bad stuff about it while telling some or most of the good stuff.) I don't want a customer to come looking for hay, buy the hay because he done drove ½ tank of gas to get to me and needs hay; that leads to a one-time sale. 'Druther have a guy show up and be pleasantly surprised with the quality and value. The aforementioned makes me want to cast my ballot in the "no" hat.

The USDA (or gov't regulated) option. It probably would be good for me...the setting of prices (I'm in the cheap-hay section of the world) and governing of quality scores *could* put money in my pocket. *BUT*, If I wanted a partner, I would have advertised for one...don't need a "partner" shoved down my throat. I have enough trouble with my ways and ain't gonna sell my soul for a few mites. The money enable by the gummint doesn't come without a price and someone HAS to pay the price. I still can't reckon on how to get that camel through the eye of a needle...even without me riding it, so having the gummint do my stealing for me upsets my stomach.

I have spent far less time than most on here (I'm a newb at the hay-selling game) building a customer base, but I can start making calls when I have hay ready and the hay begins to magically turn into wampum.

So, for me, "yes" is the correct option. The ones that oversell their quality will soon be out of business and mine will continue to grow.
To the Gov't-overseen option, I say to it: "I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."  

If you later find that you need my name for some reason, PM me and I will provide. If you want to sharpen your claws on the defense for your thesis, I'm sure we can help with that, too. 

73, Mark


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Fescue- Round Bales.....800#

--------

Orchard Grass

Timothy

Alfalfa

And mixtures of the above three....mainly 50# square bales but occasionally some round bales of the three.

Regards, Mike

A very noble effort Troy. Good luck...dang sodbusters need all the help that they can get.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> That's a sticky question for me and can see the pros and cons of each option for my rinky-dink operation.
> 
> The "yes" option is enticing for me to poke a mouse at, but I figure the guy that bales ditch hay and is selling for $2 a bale will claim his to be the highest grade even when it isn't. That puts a nine-line-bind on a guy that is conservative and tries not to oversell the quality of his hay. (I tend to undersell the quality...or at least tell ALL of the bad stuff about it while telling some or most of the good stuff.) I don't want a customer to come looking for hay, buy the hay because he done drove ½ tank of gas to get to me and needs hay; that leads to a one-time sale. 'Druther have a guy show up and be pleasantly surprised with the quality and value. The aforementioned makes me want to cast my ballot in the "no" hat.
> 
> ...


Yep, last thing we farmers need is more GUBMINT *anything*...

Later! OL J R


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

I edited the poll a little. I didn't mean for anything to be government mandated, meant to ask would you use it if I publish it within my university or only if it were published by the USDA. I don't think you could enforce it properly even if it were mandated. It's meant to be a voluntary use resource. Thanks for the input.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I would think any grading system would need to include a sample analysis as part of the evaluation, but there already is a problem because the same sample can test somewhat differently at different labs. I see finding a consistent benchmark as being very difficult to arrive at.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Well if it looks purty and smells good....it has to be good. I grade it premium! 

Regards, Mike


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

McDonald Family Farms said:


> I edited the poll a little. I didn't mean for anything to be government mandated, meant to ask would you use it if I publish it within my university or only if it were published by the USDA. I don't think you could enforce it properly even if it were mandated. It's meant to be a voluntary use resource. Thanks for the input.


Now with your change i removed my vote. Hay quality is subjective. Quality varies within fields too. Sounds like another headache to me. When we shipped export hay to Japan about every 12th to 15th container was "rejected". Found out later it made no difference, the buyer just automatically rejected and then expected we would give it away. Started selling it to other customers and that BS almost stopped.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Took a trip to the city today to pick up tires for the wife's car. One the way home stopped to pick up dog food at store. While I was there I was looking at the rabbit food.

This got me thinking. For grading and selling hay I would like to get into selling rabbit hay for $4/pound or mixed alfalfa cubes for for $8/pound.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Took a trip to the city today to pick up tires for the wife's car. One the way home stopped to pick up dog food at store. While I was there I was looking at the rabbit food.
> 
> This got me thinking. For grading and selling hay I would like to get into selling rabbit hay for $4/pound or mixed alfalfa cubes for for $8/pound.


I have often thought the same thing while in Walmart and see a 1 pound bag of Timothy hay for Rabbits for $4. The difficulty would be making a connection with a large company for widespread distribution.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I can describe my hay just fine to someone with out needing a chart.Fortunatley my buyers and I learned from the same book of life and know what each other are talking about.ive learned to never claim my hay was better then it is if you want repeat business which is the name of the game selling hay.

Now if you are selling to a yuppie type and their hay burner a chart maybe needed for the yuppie to understand


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> I can describe my hay just fine to someone with out needing a chart.Fortunatley my buyers and I learned from the same book of life and know what each other are talking about.ive learned to never claim my hay was better then it is if you want repeat business which is the name of the game selling hay.
> 
> Now if you are selling to a yuppie type and their hay burner a chart maybe needed for the yuppie to understand


I've given the USDA chart to some of my customers with horses. Even explained it. THey got this weird, zombie-like look on their faces and their eyes glazed over. Their chart would need to be real simple: "Good"/"Not good"!

Ralph


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Why would I want a system that leads to standardized pricing? We had a drought this year. Corn and bean yields were bad and price is bad due to everyone else's good crop. Now with my hay I am getting much higher prices than most I have seen and heard. Hay is more of a true local supply and demand market. That is part of why I raise it. I wish you the best with your paper, but hope usda doesn't grab onto the idea.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I know this has been tried before, and failed miserably, but don't get discouraged. I have no need for a standardized pricing system as it's a very supply/demand market, and VERY area specific. I grow and sell alfalfa and alfalfa/orchardgrass mix, as well as oats straw. My dairies only care about RFQ or RFV. We have a relationship built on trust that I will only deliver what I feel meets their expectations, and it's only from feed tests do I make my decision.

The other side to having a standardized chart for grading hay is to get people to use it. We have two methods of testing hay and can't get people to come together to agree on a standard test to use. Hay isn't like corn, where it's #2 yellow, #2 blue and so on. I assume you would have a system for determining proper dockage for mold, heat damage, FM and the like?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

The above responses have more experience and knowledge than I.

Anyways, I put up some canary grass that didn't seem like it was gonna be good hay this year. So I set it aside. So far, I have unrolled 2 rounds for the cattle to lay on. Problem is, they eat more of that then their better hay if I unrolled it. Not much bedding left.

Good luck in your endeavor. Ultimately, I think you have a BIG can of worms to deal with. If you get it all figured out, hopefully you make some money from it too.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

It appears indeed I have opened a large can of worms lol. I'll do my best to answer everyone's concerns but I'm too busy right now. Once I get a little further along on it I will revive this thread.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Your poll should have also included a maybe. It might help some people, but for a lot of horse people its green, greener, greenest. They don't care about quality nor how to use it if they have it. People that know hay don't need a guide. Just my thoughts. In the end you could have a good grade on your hay and if the person feeds it wrong and their animal gets sick its your fault.


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