# Re New Holland super 69 Baler



## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi.

I have a New Holland Super 69 Baler with Hydraulic tension-er , it was working perfect last year i have just done 250 bales before the rain, but having a few problems with baler, first problem is at the ends of the bale one side is longer than the other how can i get them to come out with straight ends,and this is also causing the bales to banana a bit because of one end pulling tighter than the other.also if your looking at the chute end the left side breaks the twine and tangles around bill hook.not every time i notice the bill hook has a little bit of rust on it and it also has a bit of play in it compared to the other side, would a new bill hook fix the problem, its only the left side that's causing the problem.any help would be appreciated.

Regards Farmer680


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Farmer 680, do you have a manual for the baler? If not, you need to get one. You probably have hay dogs with broken springs, and yes that bill hook needs to be shiny clean and play is not your friend, there is a section in the manual devoted to the knotters. Check eBay for manuals....


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Might need to adjusr the feeder forks if the hay is lighter/ heavier then last year.


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi 
What does it mean by hay dogs with broken springs ,also what would cause one end of bale longer than the other
Regards farmer680


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

The feeder forks could be pushing hay to far in chamber or not far enough. What side is longer?


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

if you look down chute the right hand side of bale is longer, it's as if the string is pulling tighter on one side


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

If you are looking at it from back your feeder forks might not be pushing the hay in far enough. Try adjusting forks if that doesnt work atleast it eliminates that. Could be the dogs but try forks first


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Farmer 680, do you have a manual for the baler? If not, you need to get one. You probably have hay dogs with broken springs, and yes that bill hook needs to be shiny clean and play is not your friend, there is a section in the manual devoted to the knotters. Check eBay for manuals....


I have tried to buy manuals on eBay before. Ended up buying most from my nh dealer because they're actually cheaper to buy a new one than an original on eBay. Usually.


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

yes i have a manual but it doesn't say about bale ends being longer than the other


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

I am not familiar with the super 69.

Banana bales on a non-wad board NH baler are usually caused by the packer forks delivering more hay to one side of the chamber than the other.

The remedy is to adjust the penetration of the packer forks.

To determine left and right, stand at the back of the baler.If the long side of the bale is on the right of the bale (the side cut by the baler knife) then more hay has to be packed into the left side.

To achieve this, adjust the throw of the packer forks further into the chamber.

After making the adjustment, turn the baler over by hand to make sure the packer forks are not impacted by the plunger. By adjusting the throw of the forks you also vary the timing of the forks to the plunger. If impact occurs then adjust the packer fork timing by advancing the packer fork position relative to the plunger.

The string tension on a NH is equal because the tensioner spring is centrally located and pressure of hay on the strings reaches its maximum only after the strings are tied and the bale moves clear of the hay dogs that held the hay in position for the knotters to work.

Banana bales can be caused by hay dogs not working due to rust or spring breakage.

There are either two or three hay dogs at the top of the chamber and the bottom and stop hay rebounding toward the plunger once the plunger finishes compressing the hay and starts withdrawing to allow the next hay to enter the chamber.

The hay dogs are like a spring loaded wedge that allows hay to pass one way only. Look down the hay chute from the chamber, right at the start of the chute are the dogs held into the chute by a twist spring, dogs frozon in or out of the chute by rust on their shaft or that do not return into yhe chute under spring pressure allows hay to spring back into the chamber reducing the amount of hay that can be put into the chamber on that side in the next stroke.

Another cause of banana bales is a lost bale wedge. Wedges are mounted on the insides of the bale chute on the vertical walls. Made of sheet metal they bolt to the sides and there is provision to mount 3 or 4 pairs down the length of the chute. Usually the first pair is immediately outside the chamber at the start of the chute. Not always mounted in pairs, some operators use asymmetrical positioning to correct bale shape problems instead of adjusting the packer forks or if the packer fork adjustment is at its max and there are still bale shape issues.

A super 69 working properly should give you 1000 bales pa with less than a day's operation.

If this description does not help then a few pics of the packer system of the dogs and wedges would maybe help me


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Just to clear up what coondle says, they're feeder forks or feeder tines. Technically, Packer forks aren't found until 5xx series balers. Or on JDs. Just a terminology thing, otherwise spot on!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Coondle said:


> I am not familiar with the super 69.
> 
> Banana bales on a non-wad board NH baler are usually caused by the packer forks delivering more hay to one side of the chamber than the other.
> 
> ...


It's new math see- Coondle is to balers as Hay Wilson is to windrow moisture-savvy?


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi.

I just checked hay dogs there are 2 on top and 1 on the bottom of chute, one of them on top had a fair bit of tension the other you could push up and down quite easy would that cause the problem also how do i put on pictures


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Farmer680 said:


> Hi.
> I just checked hay dogs there are 2 on top and 1 on the bottom of chute, one of them on top had a fair bit of tension the other you could push up and down quite easy would that cause the problem also how do i put on pictures


Indeed, that can be a problem, probably not ALL of your problems, but a good place to start....go to "more reply options" down by the "post" it will give you the options of adding pics....did you check the feeder forks as well?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Indeed, that can be a problem, probably not ALL of your problems, but a good place to start....go to "more reply options" down by the "post" it will give you the options of adding pics....did you check the feeder forks as well?


Good to know I been on here for months and just figured out how to put pictures up lol


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Here are pictures of baler chamber ect


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Did you replace those dog springs? Can you take pics of the carriage and forks for the feeder?


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

yes will take more pics going to get dog springs tomorrow


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The pics look good and yu obviously took them upside down because they look the right way up to me Downunder!

The baler appears to me to be a missing a hay dog on the right side of the chamber. I cannot zoom in sufficiently on the thumbnails to get a better look.

The pics seem to show a hay dog in the centre top and the left top of the chamber: is this correct?. There appears to be three relief notches in the plunger (one for each hay dog) to allow the plunger to return back past the sprung-down hay dogs after compressing the hay into the chute, and there doesn't appear to be a hay dog in the top right of the chamber, there being a small rectangle of light in the top of the chute just to the left of the feeder tines.

The knotter view shows a rectangular hole below the right knotter firming up to me that a hay dog is missing

The packer tines (to use the correct term) are just clearing the chamber and the feeder tines are showing to the right of the chamber.

There also appears to be the start of a accretion of chaff and gum in the top front left of the chute above the front pair of side hay wedges. This is not enough to cause a problem yet, and such accretions usually appear on the top right of the chamber caused by accumulation of chaff particles generated by the knife and building up glued together by sap from the hay. Often appears in hay that has had a top-dressing of nitrogen in the later stages of growth. very hard to diagnose with hay in the chute but the manifestation is a pushed down leading top right corner of the bales.

The hammer on the top of the baler (knotter view) may show a level of desperation, but take it from me, threatening a baler does not cause problems to go away. For some reason balers are indifferent to the emotional status of owners and operators 

A picture of the carriage on which the packer tines and feeder tines are mounted (open the flap door just visible to the right on the knotter view) may well show where/how the packer tines can be adjusted to change the penetration into the ale chamber. I really meant the bale chamber but resort to an ale chamber could give you a better feeling 

When at the dealers for your springs try and get a look at the exploded view in the parts book/screen of the hay dog setup and confirm if 2 or 3 dogs on the top, and if 3 get the other one. It is after all only money.

Paint looks OK for a machine of that age even if it has ad a repaint. It has hydraulic tension and probably rollers on the plunger. There is no reason once adjusted that it would not happily bale 1000 bales a year for many years to come. There is a guy near me does thousands upon thousands each year, this year doing just shy of 60,000 with 2 balers one of which he bought secondhand in about 2006.

Good luck.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

After the last post I realised farmer 680 that you are probably downunder too so you took the pictures right way up.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I thought all cameras that were sent to the land down under already had been calibrated for picture taking on that continent.....No? Does that mean I'll have to calibrate my iPhone when I visit? So much to remember.....


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi sorry i had the 2 top hay dogs out when i had taken photos , is there only meant to be one hay dog in the middle on the bottom


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi yes it has rollers on the plunger , and hay did gum up on top left of chute i pulled most of it out before pictures were taken


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

I also noticed that there 2 lots of packer forks and a metal sort of fork as well


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

More questions:

Is that wheat you are baling? and

has it been conditioned? and

if so how much was it conditioned?

The gum and chaff in the top left could have been the source of your banana bales ie retarding the flow on the left side if the accretion was of sufficient size.

Now cleaned out and hay dogs ready to spring into action, try a few bales and just maybe.....

Yes we have no bananas 

Hay dogs next.

There appears that there should be 3 hay dogs in the top of the chamber, there are 3 relief notches in the top of the plunger.

Are there 3 stations in the top of the chute virtually under the knotter stack?

Where were the 2 dogs you found in relation to the three relief notches in the plunger?

Left and right side?

Left and centre? or

Right and centre?

there is only one hay dog in the bottom of the chute and there is only one relief notch in the centre of the bottom of the plunger.

So for bottom hay dogs the roll call has been made and all present and correct at 1 only. 

Assuming the hay dogs are all present and correct top and bottom and the bale comes out as in the first set of pics with a long right side the next adjustment is to the packer tines.

The packer tines are the ones on the left on the leading end of the carriage.

Above and below the carriage there is a high tensile bolt that clamps the packer tines to the carriage and the nuts look like either nyloc or more likely with NH the nuts have been machine deformed to prevent them rattling loose.

Replace any nyloc or other self-locking nut if it does not bind on the thread when screwed on. If such a nut does not bind then possible extensive and of course expensive repairs when it drops off.

Before loosening anything measure the distance between the packer tines and the feeder tines, the next set of tines to the right, and measure the distance to the third set of tines (second set of feeder ftines). The 2 sets of tines to the right feed the hay to the left to be packed into the chamber by the left set ( hence the different names) and then compressed by the plunger.

You will need to keep the ratio between the spread of the tines the same or else the alloy feeder tines are about 18 inches from the packer tines. I presume the third set of tines you mention is a spring steel (probably dark in colour) set hinged and lightly loaded by a small extension coil spring on the top of and at the right extremity of the carriage? They are not adjustable.

Loosen the nuts and the packer tines can be advanced to the left (not much adjustment in that direction from the pic) or retarded by moving them to the right. IF ADVANCED THE PACKER TINE/PLUNGER TIMING MAY NEED ADJUSTMENT.

Before using the baler under pto power, turn the baler by hand to ensure the packer tines clear the plunger. if not then ADJUST to achieve clearance. No clearance then big bill to replace the alloy packer tines.

The packer tines are now in a position to give almost maximum hay to the left of the chamber, so there may need to be an adjustment to the feeder tines instead. As I said at the start of my post last night, I am not familiar with the super 69, soooooo..... you may have to experiment or get advice from an experienced 69er!... whatever that is.

After each adjustment study the bales produced and see what the change is and if the right way adjust on the adjustment !

First try varying your ground speed, the super 69 has a maximum capacity of about 250 bales per hour. Overfeeding hay can cause a long right side banana bale, slow down to reduce the feeding rate.

Second try different positions for the alloy feeder tines, try advancing them and if that doesn't work try retarding them.
As a last resort remove a wedge from the left side and add it to the right if here is a vacant wedge station on the other side, if not leave it out.

There appears to be a double set of wedges on both sides of the entrance to the chute. That pairing may not be necessary but you should have one wedge each side at the start of the chute.
Removing one or more wedges may require application of more hydraulic tension to keep bale density at the right level.
I had one of my fleet of 317 balers with one wedge on one side and 4 on the other. That baler was nearly as cranky as I can get!.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The cameras work fine so Dawg, your iphone (there is some status in having an iphone) or some other smarter than me phone can take great photos. What is more all of those smarter than me phones can by themselves turn the photo on its side or upside down at will. The problem is when the photos are taken away from the phone and not properly orientated.

A while ago some one posted pics of tractors at work with some sadly upside down when I viewed them. Obviously the calibration was overlooked on those pics.

Your iphone camera will work fine Downunder but CAUTION do not put me in the frame, I have destroyed many cameras that have trained on my rugged visage. Do not say a warning was not given


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I thought all cameras that were sent to the land down under already had been calibrated for picture taking on that continent.....No? Does that mean I'll have to calibrate my iPhone when I visit? So much to remember.....


They are made in japan so they probably have to be switched coming here lol.


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## CoraJase (Jul 9, 2013)

Nah.. smart phones are GPS enabled - so they know when they are down under and need to switch the photo right side up.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Coondle said:


> The cameras work fine so Dawg, your iphone (there is some status in having an iphone) or some other smarter than me phone can take great photos. What is more all of those smarter than me phones can by themselves turn the photo on its side or upside down at will. The problem is when the photos are taken away from the phone and not properly orientated.
> A while ago some one posted pics of tractors at work with some sadly upside down when I viewed them. Obviously the calibration was overlooked on those pics.
> Your iphone camera will work fine Downunder but CAUTION do not put me in the frame, I have destroyed many cameras that have trained on my rugged visage. Do not say a warning was not given


Yes I had the very same thing happen to me on a uncalibrated "droid" phone, (the fella was of particularly "low" status) sent me a pic from down under and it came to me upside down....whilst trying to view said pic, I turned my iPad (tell me how much status there is in having and iPad!) to view the pic, hmmmm....upside down, funny thing about the iPad, it flips the pic when you flip the iPad, albeit with a 1 second delay, sooooo if you're very fast, you can catch a glimpse of the picture right side up! I must admit however, a dog must feel a similar frustration whilst chasing his tail...... Point taken, no pics of the rugged looking bloke....btw is bloke interchanged for words like "chap" "guy" "fella" (and the southern slang "feller") both slang for "fellow".....it has a kind of derogatory sound to it like it might mean "chump" "fat ass" or "idiot"..... I saw it used by another Aussie and momma always said say what you mean....I just don't know what it means! Either way, I used it in the aforementioned context.....I would never use a derogatory term to a feller with such intimate knowledge of photography and square balers


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

CoraJase said:


> Nah.. smart phones are GPS enabled - so they know when they are down under and need to switch the photo right side up.


Damn technology......that must explain it, my buddies phone was one of those early Motorola flip phones with a camera built in.....GPS hadn't found a place in phones yet


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

put hay dogs on today cutting grass tomorrow so will bale soon and see how i go but i need to put more hay in left of chamber looking from chute end


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Now with GPS in your phone!

See it is so clever now no upside down photos 

Told you that these phones were smarter than me.

I don't and won't have one, apart from not being able to work it I want to look like I am smart and with one of them I just look kinda dumb. :wub:

The status with an iphone , Somedevildawg is that people with them think their phone is the smartest and that they are at the top of technology.

Momma's words were to the point but I also take on Oscar Wilde's wordsmithing aapproach: "When I use a word it means exactly what I want it to mean, nothing more, nothing less." I am selective about what attitudes, philosophies and lifestyle choices Oscar Wilde made. 

If the phones keep getting smarter and smarter then even all you bright blokes and shelias (Guys and gals) will fall behind.

Resist the takeover, take control and only associate with those not as smart as you.

I can be on this forum amongst all of you smart folks because I hide behind an alias so you can't see that you, the iphones, and androids are smarter than me 

I just stick to balers, they (at least the ones I have) do not have computers. I am a bit nervous because my Bale Bandit has two of those pesky smart electronic things, but I do not have the wireless (that word used to refer to a radio) version that has an smart iphone app.

Can see my days are numbered in this hay business, 'cause I'm not gettin' any smarter, only older and will have to put my feet up, and give the rocking chair on the back verandah a workout. 

This started out as a serious topic for my fellow Downunder "hay cocky"(If ya want an explanation of that just ask but has also become a bit of fun.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ok,ok.....I'll bite...."hay cocky" must mean...."a person that does hay and thinks they know it all, but they can't possibly know it all because they don't have a iPhone" or "a person that does hay and delivers it only to the women of the area" and lastly, a "hay cocky" is "a person that needs their head examined BECAUSE the make hay" in which case, I think we're all hay cooky.....
" I'm so clever I don't understand a damn thing I'm saying"


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Cocky is in the Aussie vernacular meaning "Farmer".

Grew up because there are many varieties of widely distributed Australian birds called Cockatoos, members of the parrot family. Most cockatoos are seed eaters and fly in flocks (sometimes numbering in the many thousands) flying into an area and settling on the ground like they owned it. They also plough up the ground at times looking for grubs and succulent roots and buried seeds.

In the early days of agriculture here farmers just came along and settled on some land and began farming it.

Once a derogatory term for a blow-in farmer it has become a slang term for farmer. Hence a "cow cocky raises bovines for milk or meat and they hope some profit. For a hay cocky like me the profit is aspirational rather than real. 

Machinery here can be bought and sold on an enterprising persons website called"Cocky Mart", Mr Google would find it for you.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Lol we both talk english and I cant understand half of what you say lol. I text my canadian friend down there and ask her whats this mean and whats that mean lol


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Somedevildawg, I deliberately put some of our Aussie slang in, hoping someone will bite, might as well be you as someone else.

Keeps your mind sharp and adds some interest. Balers cutters and tractors can get boring at times except of course if it involves me or thee, and I am not always so sure about thee.

You made a comment about me and balers and was reflecting on it as I climbed into my truck to go and do some work this morning.

My first experience, that I can remember, with a baler was with a Massey Harris stationary wire tie baler that my father used when I was about 4 or 5years of age, Hay was brought in to it with a dump rake, I guess you would call it a sweep. and hay forked into a chamber with a vertical wadboard , a bit like your texan oil well pumps, pushing the hay down into the chamber which had a horizontal plunger, all driven by the belt pulley of a tractor. Boards were used to divide the bales, slipped in from the side while the plunger was away and wire was fed around and twitched (tied) by hand. There would have been plenty of these in the USA but became obsolete with the advent of the pickup baler. This old machine with steel wheels is still on a property nearby but after another 60 years out in "paddy's blue shed" ie under the open sky it does not look the picture of opulence it did when it rolled off the assembly line.

Oh by the way "Paddy's lantern " is the moon. Paddy is a mythical poor man probably of Irish extraction (no disrespect of or for the Irish) who had to make do with what nature provided.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

From your last post coondle...I take away a couple of important facts....the first is : I'm glad my dad was in the military and not a cocky, I'm not so sure I would have such fond memories of the contraption you speak of.....the second is : I need to brush up on my understanding of the language (especially the slang) for that, I'm glad you are here to "Learn" me.....I would gladly teach you any of the slangs of southern Dixie heritage and I speak Ebonics fluently, so if there is anythang (sic) you don't understand in those two languages......drop me a pm I'll gladly explain.....

Thanks for the chat mate! Interesting indeed....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Farmer680 said:


> put hay dogs on today cutting grass tomorrow so will bale soon and see how i go but i need to put more hay in left of chamber looking from chute end


How did it work out for ya.....


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The contraption I spoke of I have found out is also known as a magpie baler because the wadboard dipping up and down looks like a magpie feeding. There are plenty of examples on youtube. Mr Google will also find the specs/sales brochure for a" Massey Harris stationary baler"

Shows the reason I don't have a smarter than me phone because this ol' dinosaur doesn't know how to give the link for a you tube clip.

When it comes to slang I have a little advantage because of the exposure We in Oz get to US motion pictures of all sorts of genre. On the other hand I doubt many in the US would know more than perhaps one Australian film. And even if you did few of our films use much vernacular because the international market would be unable to understand, and to add confusion different parts of Oz use different terms for the same thing. You know the things a male person wears to go swimming? :- togs, cossies, bathers, trunks, speedos, boardies, budgie smugglers to name most. A budgie is a small parrot inhabiting the arid interior and is a seed eater. Very popular as cage birds and can be taught to talk. Tight fitting brief togs for competitive swimming or diving when worn by a male looks like the bloke is trying to smuggle a budgie in the togs. For me in my prime it was more like an eagle stowed away 

If someone asks if you have your cossies then you know they are from the Eastern States (that itself is a term used by Western Australians) and probably New South Wales.

People from the Eastern States are also known as "tother siders" ie from the other side. Victorians are sometimes referred to by New South Welshmen as "Mexicans" borrowed from the US ie because they are SOB :angry: , no the other SOB ie south of the border  .


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I guess where I live all you guys in the states are mexicans or SOB's according to coondle lol


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Still waiting on the grass to dry will bale in the next few days


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ok coondle, ima need to speak with the little woman to confirm the eagle comment.....we're all legends in our own mind


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

When you speak to the little woman, if she has to put on her glasses before comment then it is not an eagle, no matter what she says.

All of are legends, but the older I get the better I was.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Farmer 680 here are a few ideas for knotter problems where the twine hangs on the billhook from some writings I made in the past:

I think all NH knotters are the same in operation and many are

identical across a range of machines, I have had super 66,

317 (an australian made machine and 570 machines

and worked on super 68 69 and 275's but a long time ago.
Knots hanging on the bill hook can have several causes
! Knife arm scraper is not adjusted properly the curve of the

bill hook. The cure is to

(very technical this) hit the knife arm scraper with a hammer and

bend it toward the curve of the bill hook it scrapes across

Take the retaining pin out of the knotter assembly and lift up the

assembly and the knife arm scraper should contact the curved bit

and make lifting the assembly difficult it

should take quite some effort to lift the assembly
Even if the knife asrm scraper makes strong contact it can have wear

that means there is a lead under which the twine enters and

forces the knife arm scraper away from the

curved bit if that is the case you may need to grind the knife arm

scraper so it makes full

contact across the contact surface in the direction of travel OR buy

a new one!
2 Knife arm travel is too short (have yet to see this) Cure is to adjust

the knife arm to

clear the end of the bill hook by 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch
3. Knife arm roller worn or not there Cure: new roller or knife arm
Blunt Knife ; there is a small triangle shaped knife that cuts the twine

Cure: remove the knife arm and knife you do this by pulling out the

split pin and with the knotter assembly lifted up wriggle and jiggle

til the knife arm comes out(can be tight) sharpen the knife or replace it

You may have to drill out 2 rivets but NH can supply little replacement

bolts

4Twine holder tension too little CURE tighten the twine holder tension

1/4 turn at a time

it is I recall a 9/16 SAE hex nut at the side with a compression spring

under it not too much at a time!!!!

5. Bill hook cam too tight CURE loose off the hex head on the flat

non-descript spring on the RHS on;ly1/8 turn at a time try the machine

after every adjustment

6.roller on the knife arm damaged CURE needs a new knife arm

good news is you get a new knife at the same time but you must

adjust the knife arm contact to the bill hook


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