# Coastal Hay analysis



## Little (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi all....just a shot in the dark here... I recently moved my horses to a boarding facility in the North Texas area. Clearly right now we are having a severe drought and hay shortage. Before I moved I was in a much more "equine" area and had access to 3 string California, Arizona, and NM coastal and alfalfa that were extremely good quality, never a problem. I can still get that alfalfa and brought some with me. The guy I was getting it from is now selling out of coastal within an hour of the truck coming in so it's pretty tough to get any. Around here the trend seems to be local grown.
Anyway....One of mine has gas colicked more than once pretty bad since we got here, bloated up like a baloon, just plain miserable. I racked my brain, convinced it was something he was eating. I finally got into their hay barn and had a look. What I saw was a barn stacked to the ceiling with what I would personally classify as cattle hay. Extremely dark brown in color, some with darker patches through out, just about as dry as you could get it without calling it straw lol. Some of them when you bust them open they are full of a LOT of dirt, sticks, and giant leaves... I'm guessing baled last fall...I am trying to figure out if those darker spots through the bales are mold or something to be concerned about, or if it's just so dang dry it doesn't look like real hay anymore lol. I know that mold in alfalfa is usually white, I just haven't seen much coastal this "ugly" before (lol). Some of it I can tell has just been in the sun a little but some of them are clearly discolored and it's worse down in the middle when you break it open. It smells not just great but I can't put my finger on it.
Like I said I wouldn't have bought this stuff...
I am fully aware of the devastating shortage we are having right now and I'm really just trying to figure out if this hay is so poor it is dangerous and I should be looking at trying to get my old source back or if it's ok to tolerate until after we hopefully we can get some rain for another cutting or a load from out west. 
When they feed the worst of it to my horse he either picks at it or refuses it completely, which I am assuming is either mold or he just doesn't like how crappy it is(he refuses to eat about 70% of alfalfa stems... VERY picky). If I didn't have my alfalfa to lean on, I would be much more concerned, just kind of trying to figure out how bad this "ugly" hay really is.... 
I know there seems to be a dislike here for us horse people.... I do have a BS in Animal Production, I have worked on several sides of the industry and I do realize how hard everyone on every side of the business works their butts off to keep things going smoothly and I try not to be "that owner" lol. The people that own this facility recently inherited it and are competely new to agriculture and any sort of animal or facility care. I tread lightly but I am trying to educate them as best I can as how not to kill my horse when I'm gone lol.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

If you feel the hay is not high enough quality (which it sounds like it is not) you need to sit down with the owners of the boarding facility and try to find a solution. Just keep in mind good hay is hard to come by this year. Maybe try to get hay from your old source until the boarding facility can get some good hay. I was contacted by a boarding place before that wanted the lower quality hay (cheap of course) they said the horse owners would most likely never see it.



Little said:


> I know there seems to be a dislike here for us horse people....


I would not say dislike but some horse owners can be challenging to deal with. Some hay producers can be difficult also. LOL


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

"When they feed the worst of it to my horse he either picks at it or refuses it completely".....That should tell you all you need to know. Better seek alternatives soon or you may not have a horse.

"The people that own this facility recently inherited it and are competely new to agriculture and any sort of animal or facility care.".......Thats not good. Many risks with your situation.

"I know there seems to be a dislike here for us horse people...."

"I would not say dislike but some horse owners can be challenging to deal with. Some hay producers can be difficult also."

Its not "horse owners" nor "hay producers", it is PEOPLE. Dealing with the general public is much, much more challenging than say 20 years ago. Alot more self centeredness.

Regards, Mike


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Well.........As a barn owner, breeder, and hay producer, I've probably got a rather twisted view of the horsey/hay business. My daughter went to school and competed in Europe and is an equine nutritionist and trainer. Her view is pretty twisted as well.



Little said:


> I recently moved my horses to a boarding facility in the North Texas area. Clearly right now we are having a severe drought and hay shortage. Before I moved I was in a much more "equine" area and had access to 3 string California, Arizona, and NM coastal and alfalfa that were extremely good quality, never a problem. I can still get that alfalfa and brought some with me. The guy I was getting it from is now selling out of coastal within an hour of the truck coming in so it's pretty tough to get any. Around here the trend seems to be local grown.


Welcome to this board and the unfortunate reality of 2011. This year is one of the worst droughts in history. If you think you are having a hard time getting hay right now, wait until this winter. I know some barns that have just closed and told their customers "Sorry, but we can't feed them". I charge a lot for board, but it gives me the reserves to respond to an emergency. I also have enough storage that I can buy truckload lots. Some of my customers complain about the prices and think our hay must be free because I grow it. I just can't grow enough. I prefer local grown, because I know the producers I use and their typical quality. We work well together. I also hate to blow $75/ton on trucking for imported hay that likely has less food value and makes me dependent on unreliable hay brokers.



Little said:


> Anyway....One of mine has gas colicked more than once pretty bad since we got here, bloated up like a baloon, just plain miserable. I racked my brain, convinced it was something he was eating..


Some horses don't travel well and take time to get adjusted to the new environment. However, the barn manager should have caught it and treated it appropriately. The fact that you had to catch it and agonize over it indicates to me that you probably boarded at the "low cost provider".



Little said:


> I finally got into their hay barn and had a look. What I saw was a barn stacked to the ceiling with what I would personally classify as cattle hay. Extremely dark brown in color, some with darker patches through out, just about as dry as you could get it without calling it straw lol. Some of them when you bust them open they are full of a LOT of dirt, sticks, and giant leaves... I'm guessing baled last fall...I am trying to figure out if those darker spots through the bales are mold or something to be concerned about, or if it's just so dang dry it doesn't look like real hay anymore lol. I know that mold in alfalfa is usually white, I just haven't seen much coastal this "ugly" before (lol). Some of it I can tell has just been in the sun a little but some of them are clearly discolored and it's worse down in the middle when you break it open. It smells not just great but I can't put my finger on it.


Sounds like Bahia with some weeds. Giant leaves are not a good sign either. It might be all they can get, or it might be all they can afford because they're a "low cost provider". My storage is open, but 99.9% of my customers don't know what they are looking at. When it's in a bale they couldn't tell Bermuda from Bahia or Johnson grass and likely couldn't identify it growing either. I've tried to educate some of them but most think grass is what grows around their house and hay is that tall stuff growing in the fields.



Little said:


> I am fully aware of the devastating shortage we are having right now and I'm really just trying to figure out if this hay is so poor it is dangerous and I should be looking at trying to get my old source back or if it's ok to tolerate until after we hopefully we can get some rain for another cutting or a load from out west.
> 
> When they feed the worst of it to my horse he either picks at it or refuses it completely, which I am assuming is either mold or he just doesn't like how crappy it is(he refuses to eat about 70% of alfalfa stems... VERY picky). If I didn't have my alfalfa to lean on, I would be much more concerned, just kind of trying to figure out how bad this "ugly" hay really is.....


I guess you need to make a decision. Either you stay or move your animals to a suitable facility. I'm also wondering why you think you should be buying hay. Is this really a boarding facility or just some people with a barn.



Little said:


> The people that own this facility recently inherited it and are competely new to agriculture and any sort of animal or facility care. I tread lightly but I am trying to educate them as best I can as how not to kill my horse when I'm gone lol.


Bingo!!!!! My favorite type of competition! We hate nursing the horses back to health, but the customers who have lived through some of these barns take a lot longer to start bitching about our rates.



Little said:


> I know there seems to be a dislike here for us horse people..


Nahhhhh! But I let my daughter deal with them. I've gotten too old and grumpy. You need to find a different place.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

the only thing that irritates me about horse people is that they beleive that cattlemen can and should feed lesser quality hay because they can digest it, no thoufht is ever put to the fact that we need our animals to do well and gain over 1 pound per day (average) until weaned in order to MAKE MONEY, ie put food on the table etc. Yes cattle can safely digest poor hay (and gain(weight) poorly themselves), but why would I sell my better hay to someone that has a horse for all intensive purposes as a pet or companion and in the fall get less $$$ for my stocker calves. If you want the best of the best hay be prepared to pay ALOT of money this year, because the drought is far reaching and as was discussed on this forum in the spring, alot of hay ground was turned over to make room for the high dollar in row crops. This is the "perfect storm" in amanner of speaking for hay sales... High demand and low supply. And sob storries don't work on me anymore (unless she is HOT, lol) it is a bad time to own a horse IMO


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Toyes, well put!!! I have always worried over my cattle more so than my horses. They who bring in the profit get my attention. I don't neglect the nags but they get the same food and if they were in competiton it would be different or if they were being paid for by a customer then that would make all the difference in the world. Little welcome to Hay Talk, On the subject of discoloring of the hay is it a rich brown/black color? and have a sticky feel? This I have seen in large Squares of alfalfa that were on the bottom row we fed to dad's cows. They went wild over it but I couldn't believe he wanted to feed it but no problems and all cows had healthy calves. If your horse coliced you best make sure only your feed gets to them or get em the hell out of there! Ps IMO I would take a vet with you to check your horse and facilities maybe something you didn't notice?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

From time to time I am asked, "Is this horse Quality hay?". To which I usually reply Shoot No, this hay is way too good for a horse. This is dairy quality hay. Blow's their mind, as they go to all those horse seminars and get filled with dirt about high quality horse hay.

I try to never sell alfalfa hay to a horse owner, unless they have a wet mare or have horses in training for events or racing. Alfalfa has too much energy for a casual horse. 
I allow my hay to bleach a little extra if it is new hay. That discourages the ignorant big time. 
The horse owners are on average the same quality as the general livestock owner. Trouble is some are really, really good and a real pleasure, but they are over balanced by those others.

I try to put up 12% CP coastal hay. That feeds well and the animals do well. 
I cut starting around noon and finish no later than 3 PM CDT along I-35 in Texas. This gives my hay maybe a 2% advantage in nonstructural carbohydrates (sugar) which is a competitive edge. 
I do not attempt to bale more hay than I can between 70% RH & roughl 55% relative humidity. This gives me a competitive edge. I rake the hay at first light and am finished no later than 9 am, CDT. 
Sounds good but it does not always work that way.

My sales gimmick is I Give the prospect one maybe two bales, no charge. If they come back the are hooked on quality hay. This is regardless of the type of livestock they have at home.

In another few months horse quality will be round bales that are rotted to the center, dusty, and dark. Maybe corn stover, or milo stover. Even Bar Ditch Hay with a share of broke glass and old beer cans.

News flash for the overly proud horse owner, donkeys are far more picky eaters than a horse. Donkey, you know that is the better part of a mule!

Right now the cattle man wants me to sell 12% CP grass hay at less than my cost of production. Reason being they can not make any money with cattle feeding hay. *For them the price just went another $35/Ton.*


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

If you are looking for hay in small squares in the North Texas area we still got some in the barns.......Jim Russell Hay & Sprig Farm, Inc. - Tifton 85, Tifton 44 and Coastal bermuda grass hay and sprigs for sale


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> I allow my hay to bleach a little extra if it is new hay. That discourages the ignorant big time.


My neighbor runs a dairy and grows his own hay. Recently he downsized his herd and started selling hay. His fields are beautiful, very well fertilized, and he makes very high quality hay. He put some of it up in small squares. I ran into him the other day and he asked me "why do horse people think hay needs to be green....what does color have to do with anything?" I tried to explain the concept that "pretty hay" was better than "high nutrition" hay to many horse people, but it was a bit more than he could handle. I expect he'll probably stick to round bales, the cow people appreciate his hay.

We regularly have people asking if we could lower our rates if we fed cheaper feed. The concept that I can meet the horse's nutritional requirements with 1/2 lb per 100 pounds of body weight from a $15 bag of feed instead of 1 lb per 100 pounds of body weight, PLUS SUPPLIMENTS, from a $9 bag is a bit beyond their comprehension. The fact that we rarely have any colics or illness, the horses look great and perform very well at shows is an added benefit. Besides, their digestive system is not really designed for concentrated feed and too much can bring on a host of other problems.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

If you are looking at the ends of these round bales and see concentric rings of light brown grass mixed with tan colored grass, the brown could be Bahia mixed in with bermudagrass. If it is all brown, perhaps it is all Bahia.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

A local producer I know says that whenever someone demands "horse quality" hay, he merely raises the price $2-3 per bale. Same hay from the same fields. He says that since they are paying a premium, that seems to satisfy them that they are getting "horse quality."

LOL.... I don't know if he was joking, but I tend to believe him....


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## jdhayboy (Aug 20, 2010)

RockmartGA said:


> A local producer I know says that whenever someone demands "horse quality" hay, he merely raises the price $2-3 per bale. Same hay from the same fields. He says that since they are paying a premium, that seems to satisfy them that they are getting "horse quality."
> 
> LOL.... I don't know if he was joking, but I tend to believe him....


Ha it is funny how people are but it is so true!! I try to be really honest with people when selling them my hay, telling them that a hay may have a weed or two in it, or maybe a tiny bit of other grass. You could lower the by $2 a square or $10 a round and they still want the more expensive stuff.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I think its funny that most "horse people" are more finiky than they'er horses are! But ya gotta love em and the money they bring to the table!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Or you can always tell a horse owner, but not much.

Not all the horse owning Public will pay a premium for hay. A few years ago, a fellow who was paying my standard price, $6/bale, for bermudagrass hay balked big time at $90 a large roll. That caught me wrong and I came back with the idea that there are 20 small squares in a round bale, and he was $120 for the amount of hay in a RB with out batting an eye. 
He bought a RB at $90, and two days later called back and said no more RB's because his horses who got the RB's for feed did nothing but stand there and eat for two days until the hay was all gone. A RB was supposed to last those horses 10 days. Obviously he would have been unhappy if he got the hay for $45/bale if they ate it that fast. 
Scared me silly, as I could picture those horses foundering over eating of high quality hay.

Personal observation, bermudagrass hay, RB's baled at the same time, in the same field, right next to the square baler, will test one to two percent lower in protein than the square bales. We are talking about hay that is baled at 65% relative humidity.

Customers who buy hay to last the year do not store the hay to save hay and the end up feeding maybe 65% of what they bought. Then the way they feed the animals fail to eat a third of any good hay they are offered. This is hay that will sell for $210/ton retail in square bales. Because of the hay that is wasted on their farm I should sell the same hay for $80/ton fob.

The cattle owning hay buyer is really not that much different.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

No we just waste alot more of it!
"Personal observation, bermudagrass hay, RB's baled at the same time, in the same field, right next to the square baler, will test one to two percent lower in protein than the square bales. We are talking about hay that is baled at 65% relative humidity. "
Do you have a theory as to why? Is it perhaps the density of the small Square and does this hold true for large squares as well?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The round baler constantly spinning the hay slings leaves off while fewer leaves shatter off in a squarte baler and some of those fall inside the bale.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> The round baler constantly spinning the hay slings leaves off while fewer leaves shatter off in a squarte baler and some of those fall inside the bale.


Sounds like their baling to dry then. I like to start baling at 18% and treat it all. 17% ain't bad but at 16% you can start to see a green trail on the ground behind a round baler. When time and the weather is a consideration I start baling at 19% and treat it.


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