# Hello & dumb questions



## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Hello everybody.

I am just getting started. I have about 45 acres and, until a couple years ago, I let a neighbor farm it for free. We pay a lower tax rate on 'farmed land' so my 'payment' was the lower tax rate.

Long story short he gave up farming, and I spent some time looking for someone who was interested in continuing the tradition. I eventually gave up and decided I would grow & sell hay myself.

So I bought his old haybine, tedder, and round bailer and started. The NH haybine was in a sorry state so I spent a fair bit of the spring repairing it - what an ordeal. He told me I would have to reseed my fields and suggested I do about 1/3 to 1/2 this year.

My problem is, I really don't know what I'm doing. He is too busy doing landscaping, and he's a real nice guy and all, but he isn't very good at explaining things.

I was able to figure out how to cut, bale, etc., but didn't grow up on a farm and I don't even know where to look for information on seeding, until I found this site.

Would someone be kind enough to suggest the proper approach? How do I prepare the field? When should I seed? My farmer friend told me the seed company would lend me a seeder - is this true? How much does seed cost?

I live near Toronto, Canada, if that matters.

The area I live in is full of 'horsey people' which are mostly townees (i.e. they have no acreage and board their horses) so I suspect that would be the most profitable market to sell into, but I'll need a square baler - maybe next year.

Thanks in advance.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

mingy said:


> My problem is, I really don't know what I'm doing.....The area I live in is full of 'horsey people'


You wont be able to sell horse people until you are a hay making master.

I think you should figure out what you have now. i.e Brome grass, Orchard Grass, Quack Grass, Purple Top/Red Top?


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Fair enough.

But I won't be a hay master until I learn how to replant a field.

Anybody have any suggestions how to go about planting/seeding?

I've searched the web for hours looking for that info, I'm surprised its such a big secret!


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## ecofarmer (May 29, 2009)

Most people use a drill or broadcast seed. Depending on the time of the year and what the seed is depends on how we put seed down. When you search on planting a seed include what you're planting at the time. Just doing a broad search will not help much.

You know that you can drop by your local ag office in your area and get plenty of information for free. They might get slammed some parts of the year but with the differences in each area can help a lot.

With all this being know to you I would suggest that you sit down and draw out the field and break it into a few subfields. Get a few soil samples out of each sub felid so you know what you have. Towards the end of the year you should get one sample out of each subfield to see what changes have happened.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Before this gets to involved, what do you have access to far as machinery to work the ground, if any that is?

I'm not sure about Canada, but if it was me and I was in your situation, I would either check with your local extension office or with the nearest ag college.


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

In terms of tools, I have a 90HP tractor, a moldboard plow, a disc, and a cultivator, along with a haybine, rake, and baler. I got the tractor after cutting hay with my 30HP tractor and it worked, but was a little light.

I contacted a local AG office and they suggested I take a 3 year course at a community college. (I am 51 and have a graduate degree - doesn't mean I know everything, but I am a bit long in the tooth to quit my job and go back to school). Maybe I should try again, and specifically ask about hay.

I think you are right - I'm doing too board a search, but to me 'hay is hay' so I don't really know where to start. Maybe alfalfa (?)


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## CantonHayGuy (Sep 25, 2008)

Not sure what your 45 acres has on it now, but I'm assuming it's grass now?? Since your Ag agent doesn't appear to be a source of help, I would suggest you talk to someone at the Co-Op nearest you. Tell them what you've got and what you want to do. They should be able to point you in the right direction with contacts. If you don't know whether you have just native grasses growing, maybe the Co-Op can help you with this too. No sense tilling it all up though. Soil samples are a good first step and the Co-Op can help with this. These samples will tell you if you need to fertilize and what specific nutrients the soil is lacking.

You can re-seed by either broadcast spreader or a drill seeder. Broadcast, you can most likely do yourself if you can find a place to rent one that mounts to the 3-pt. However, broadcast isn't as productive as drilling. Maybe the Co-Op might have a seed drill to rent, but you'd want it to be one that is fairly large considering you have 45 acres. I had a guy professionally plant my 13 acres and it seemed worth it to me because I was in your shoes. 
Do an internet search for horse pasture mix seed companies then call them. Talk to them about what grass mixtures they recommend for your area. If you think you are going to be selling to mostly horse people, stick with a horse pasture mix; horses don't really "need" alfalfa so a horse pasture mix is what you want. Plus, when it comes time to spray for weeds it will be easier to do so with grass than it is with alfalfa. The Co-Op here can get me my seed. If you decide to go with a mixture that contains fescue, MAKE SURE it is endophyte (sp?) free. Endophyte is a fungus that will cause pregnant animals to abort. From what I've seen, grass seed rate is about 25-30lbs per acre, but you might not have to go that heavy since you would be re-seeding. The seed company should be able to answer that for you.

I think in general fall is a better time to plant, but that's not a hard and fast rule. When you talk to the seed company, ask them what they recommend for your area.

Just some thoughts.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If your market is Horsey People I would find out what they want for the nags.No use planting something and than they want something else.
Soil test.
Depending what is their now you could interseed with notill drill,or burn off with Roundup or plow and work the crap out of it.Hard to say with out knowing more about what is their now for hay & weeds.
With out knowing more this is probably what I would do.Spray with Round Up early fall,Soil Test,Spread fertilizer and till in this fall,You maybe need Lime and would be a good time to work in.If it is soddy plowing this fall will help break it down over winter to make a better seed bed.Prepare seedbed next spring drill & pack.Good Luck


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

I guess the important question is what is on the field now? How much rain are you getting? What type of hay will grow? Alfalfa roots go down up to 30 ft. Sometimes alfalfa doesn't do well in wet areas.

I would check out your local horse stables. Find out what they are feeding horses in your area. Ask them if you can look at the hay they are feeding their horses. You can learn a lot about hay. Providing they know what they are doing.

You may concider having your field planted. Maybe plowing it yourself and have someone else disk, level and harrow it.

You will be surprised how much you can learn real quick when stress kicks in.

I am 71, have been farming for about 5 years. I retired from Los Angeles. Although I lived in the city for over 40 years I just observed what was happening in our area. You can learn something from watching other farmers. Sometimes how not to farm.

One big thing I learned real quick. Most horse people won't feed from large squares or round bales. Just too hard to handle. I sell to just local horse people. I bale 14 by 18 by 36 inch bales that weigh about 62 pounds. I feed my horses the ground bales and sell them to others for a reduced rate.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

One additional item. I do have an advantage. My uncle has farmed for years in western Michigan. Grows timothy hay. Not my choice for horses. My wife's uncle farmed for years in CA, and her cousin has a doctor's degree in alfalfa so we have a personal info source.

Having 45 acres, I would put up small bales and grow a mixture of alfalfa and grass, if alfalfa does well in your area.

I grow a 50/50 mixture of grass/alfalfa and a 90/10 mixture of grass/ alfalfa. My alfalfa is range alfalfa and my grass is a mixture of orchard/brome/garrison.


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

My fields currently have grass with a small amount of alfalfa and even small amount of clover. If I recall, when he first seeded there was much more alfalfa and a lot more clover - my bees had a great summer.

Two of my fields were plowed so its just grass & weeds. I figured he was going to replant and then gave up.

I'll follow up all the suggestions. Thanks again.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

You may want to do some research on the clover. Some horse people believe that pregnant mares eating yellow clover could lose their foul.

The grass and weed field, unless it has foxtail, I would just spray with round up in the spring, wait until everything dies, then plow, disk, harrow, and replant with a mixture of grass and alfalfa. Unless you have all of the needed equipment you may want to have the guy that rented do part of the work to get it seeded.

Horse people are fussy. Once you put in a good hay crop and they like it, they will be begging for horse hay. They drive over 200 miles to buy our horse hay. We don't load, we don't deliver. We sell by the bale only. We stand behind our hay. If they don't like our hay they can bring it back. We are selling horse hay and don't even have it baled yet.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

On the fields that are still in grass, I would seriously consider trying to no till some alfalfa in. I've had two differant fields that were both very rolling and highly erodible. The one used to be a cow pasture and the other was in CRP. I made what was there in the spring and another cutting after that, sprayed it with roundup, then about 10 days before I planted I sprayed again with roundup to make sure all the grass was dead as I wasn't sure what was exactly in there. Then no tilled it about the 1st of August. I set the drill a little heavier than a 1/2 rate, went at about a 3o degree angle to the way I planned on mowing it, then went over it 30 degrees opposite to the first pass. I also had Orchard grass in the grass seeder as well as it seems all my customers prefer a Alfalfa/Orchard grass mix anymore with very few wanting Timothy these days.

That old cow pasture was one of the heaviest fields of hay I have made so far this year, I think the rolling ground prevented it from getting as saturated as some of the flatter ground, and it seemed the hillsides that faced south most likely warmed up faster this spring as well.

The one that was CRP does alright, but a lot of the hillsides have very little topsoil from too many years of plowing before it went into CRP.

Something else if you're going to sell horse hay, if you plant any fescues, make sure it is a endophyte free variety. Endophyte infected hay will cause mares to abort their foals. Personally I just avoid fescue all together and stick with Orchard grass.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

I was kind of thinkin' you might want to try your first season of baling on your existing hay, rather than reseeding everything. I see that you have some weed fields. IMO this is not a cool trick that your neighbor did to you. You let him work it for free, then he leaves you with the mess? Anyway, no matter.

If you're going to target the horses, talk to the horsey people first and ask them what they want. I know it's been mentioned but it bears repeating.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

As a horse breeder/trainer, equestrian center owner, and hay producer, I'd like to comment on some of the answers here (at least from my perspective)...... First the comment about Timothy not making good horse hay....It won't grow down here but it's sure trucked in. It has huge snob appeal to say you are feeding Timothy and horsey people in the high cost disciplines (hunter/jumper, dressage, etc) are very much into that. At the same time, from a digestability/nutrition standpoint it is much better for horses than many other hay types. Cows can eat anything because of their digestion system, horses have a single-pass through system and you have to be careful what you feed them.

I will often round bale a field on the first cutting, if I haven't been able to spray it, just to clean it up. I sell the rounds as cow hay because it's weedy, but it's usually bought by horse people that have a few horses in their back yard or are wantabe cowboys. If I have excess squares, I'll sell them as well to higher income horse people. When I am asked if the hay is "horse quality" I usually ask what they mean. For the most part it means "looks pretty", "smells nice", & "I can unload it when I get home". They've heard the words "coastal" and "bermuda" before but don't know that it means the same thing and I've stopped trying the explain the difference between "coastal" and the Tifton 85 that I grow. "Bermuda" makes them happy and we leave it there. Once they've bought squares from me there are no more questions. They've seen that I feed what I sell.

Alfalfa is good for horses but not as their only forage. They are much better off with a grass hay that has good digestability. Most horse people also do not worry that much about protein because they feed pellets as well. It's more a concern to me because you have to watch the protein intake on foals/young horses and I don't want to overfeed the others because of economics.

If you want to sell to horse people you will need storage, because most of them don't have any. Barn owners will usually take a few hundred bales at a time, but they will want to be assured of a steady supply and "looks nice" - "smells nice" is important. Individuals may only buy 5-10 bales a week...again, a steady supply is important. Selling to the horsey crowd is not difficult because for the most part they are nice people and you are selling "pet food". Go talk to the barn owners. If you have storage and can deliver when needed, most will be happy to prepay in order to guarantee their winter/spring supply.

Good luck in the hay business!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> If you want to sell to horse people you will need storage, because most of them don't have any. Barn owners will usually take a few hundred bales at a time, but they will want to be assured of a steady supply and "looks nice" - "smells nice" is important. Individuals may only buy 5-10 bales a week...again, a steady supply is important. Selling to the horsey crowd is not difficult because for the most part they are nice people and you are selling "pet food". Go talk to the barn owners. If you have storage and can deliver when needed, most will be happy to prepay in order to guarantee their winter/spring supply.
> 
> Good luck in the hay business!


Agreed, I have 300 4x5 round bales in storage for one stable owner. They run a riding/equestrian center and his horses get nothing but round bales, the boarded horse get fed small squares so he knows what to charge for feed per boarded horse.

He comes and gets 7 bales a week for three weeks then may skip a week. I'm not sure of the mileage but when his1 ton was in the shop I've delivered to him and its a good hour each way.

At one time in this area, you couldn't give a horse owner a round bale as they all thought "round bales kill horses" but most have come to the realization that good hay is good hay regardless the shape of the bale. Like Mike 120 pointed out, storage is a must. I have two 38x72 hoop buildings and one 42x96 hoop building for storage and all three have the roll up sides. Regardless of who you sell too, storing the hay is almost if not just as important as getting the hay made properly.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

mlappin said:


> At one time in this area, you couldn't give a horse owner a round bale as they all thought "round bales kill horses" but most have come to the realization that good hay is good hay regardless the shape of the bale.


I will feed rounds, but not very often and only to our horses. You generally have a lot of waste with rounds and it's a mess trying to drag the paddock when you move the horses out to rest it. You typically feed horses by the flake, both in the stalls and in the paddocks. Small squares are a pain in the butt to bale/gather/store but they are able to be handled by teenage girls which is pretty much all we have at our barn.

Rounds also get a bad rap because down here they're typically stored outside and uncovered. Often they're baled with a little higher moisture so you also run a mold risk with them. Mold can kill horses or at least make them colic.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

You are right on Mike120. In Wyoming we don't get a lot of rain so we cover our hay with tarps. Keeps it green and smelling nice. We bale it dryer than we would for cows. We can't risk any mold. Horse people here very seldom buy round and big squares because they can't haul them and they are hard to feed. Catering to horse people we get orders of what they will need from first cutting through spring. Once we get into Feb. or March there is no hay available in this area except what we are saving for steady customers. We do get some outfitters that buy 10 to 15 ton at a time but most horse people can only carry a couple of ton in their horse trailer and almost a ton on their pickups. Others buy a few bales at a time. That is why we sell by the bale. Marketing is a big thing and the horse people love it when you exactly what they need and what problems they are having. If they are feeding alfalfa they are usually feeding too much so we switch them to the mixture grass/alfalfa. we have the 90/10 and the 50/50 blend. Of course you know the field doesn't stay the way it was planted.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

You caught my attention with your location and available hay. 
To start with it is possible that the Texas Forage & Grassland Council will be restarted. Will probably serve the East Texas forage growers with a smattering of us here in Central Texas. 
Gerald Evers may have more information at Overton. [email protected]

Horse owners can and do change their preferences. Here they are switching to round bales for the convenience. They got tired of feeding the nags two times a day, and going out and talking to them. I believe the romance is over.

In an old Morrison Feeds and Feeding Text there was a statement that bermudagrass was equal to timothy for working mules. 
My observation has been that bermudagrass hay is superior to timothy as they harvest timothy in the North.

I try to manage for a 12% CP coastal bermudagrass hay. In this dry year the CP is mostly staying higher than that.

I can raise alfalfa here in the Little River bottom soils. At this time AmeriStand 802 is the variety of choice. It has good pest resistance including Wet Foot Root Rot resistance. (Phytophthora) I fully expect there will be different variety of choice in another few years.

I would like to have a RR Alfalfa to plant next to my neighbors corn fields. That way he will feel comfortable spraying his RR Corn right up to the line & maybe a little over. The idea is for him keep from having a weed bank the two rows out from my alfalfa. When RR alfalfa comes back it will probably have so many onerous & ponderious limitations to make it impractical plant a 15 foot strip. I just want a narrow strip of RR alfalfa in a regular alfalfa field.

These heavy clay, really high CEC value, Calcareous, Vertisol soil can be a joy to work with. First we have to learn to work with these soils rather than trying to fight them, though.


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## ecofarmer (May 29, 2009)

We have a 50 by 120 feed out barn that we store squares in. We use half the main floor for equipment storage for the winter. We store hay in the loft for a large stable up the road. We do not "hold" hay any anyone else. There are a bunch of people that save there hay till winter and sell it at a higher price.

There are a lot of stables that are built that don't have lofts to hold hay and they have no place for storage on there grounds.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> As a horse breeder/trainer, equestrian center owner, and hay producer, I'd like to comment on some of the answers here....


You're just the guy I need t talk to.

One day last fall, I was taking a load of nice 50-50 alfalfa-tim to a dairy and while I was scaling at a truck stop, I was approached by a horse hay dealer. He told me he would buy "as many semi trailer loads of this as you have". This was pretty nice stuff...green and timothy heads everywhere. I told him that we don't have much timothy but we have some 2nd cut alfalfa that would probably test 16-18% CP. "Horse guys don't care about that. They buy on sight and color". I proceeded to tell him that we had lots of extremely soft orchard, brome and red top. Nope. "Horse guys hate that stuff". In the end, they tried a load of our "stuff" and it's worked out pretty good, but my question is this;

Why don't horse guys like soft wire grass like orchard, brome and red top?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> I will feed rounds, but not very often and only to our horses. You generally have a lot of waste with rounds and it's a mess trying to drag the paddock when you move the horses out to rest it.


Depends how you feed em. I agree that if done the wrong way, up to half the round bale will goto waste. The customer that gets most of my horse quality first cutting, drops em on their end and leaves the net on, then drops a equine round bale feeder over the bale. I've been to his place and when done like that, the horses waste less than my beef cows do.



Mike120 said:


> Rounds also get a bad rap because down here they're typically stored outside and uncovered. Often they're baled with a little higher moisture so you also run a mold risk with them. Mold can kill horses or at least make them colic.


Like I said, once people finally figure out that good hay is good hay regardless of it's shape, they will buy it. I have one person that comes and buys a few bales now and then, I them in back of the truck so they can roll em out. They get home, pull into the pasture, roll the back out then drop a horse feeder around it. Since I've started storing all my 'for sale' bales in the hoop buildings, when going to the hay auctions its obvious that they've never seen rain. These days, I'm gonna guess depending on the year, 40 to 60 percent of my second and third cutting that I take to the auctions, goes to horses, at least around here thats becoming the norm.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rank said:


> Why don't horse guys like soft wire grass like orchard, brome and red top?


I've found most of them think they absolutely have to have to have Timothy because that's what their dad/grandpa fed his horses, or they think they remember reading it somewhere.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Interesting about timothy back east. I think it is mostly area of the country. In Wyoming not many horse people feeding timothy. I think it is because our hay can get stressed due to lack of water. It is the stressed timothy that causes the problems for horses. All the horse people here want is brome/garrison/orchard mixed with alfalfa. My uncle in Michigan grows only timothy because it is too wet for alfalfa.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

mlappin said:


> I've found most of them think they absolutely have to have to have Timothy because that's what their dad/grandpa fed his horses, or they think they remember reading it somewhere.


For the most part, you've pretty much hit on the answer. Remember, earlier I said you're selling "pet food". I've had horses since I was a kid, until I got into breeding / showing / boarding, I didn't worry that much about the nutritional value of hay. It was just something we gave them to munch on and keep them occupied. As a barn owner, very few of our boarders/students know much about horse nutritional needs.....they leave it to us. They are usually very pleased about how much better their horses look after they've been here a while, because we feed quality feed/hay. For us, it's something we do as breeders to turn out a quality (and high priced) product. It also translates into performance gains for the horses. At shows, you can see the difference between horses from different barns, so it's good advertising for us as well. Other barn owners see it differently and buy the cheapest feed/hay they can find. It's all in what their business model is and and your sales approach should adapt. Sell the weedy stuff to the low-cost provider (he typically won't pre-buy because he/she is running month-to-month), sell the quality hay to the quality-provider (he'll prepay, and pay a premium for the quality and the storage). Don't try to convince them to change to a hay they are not familier with. It takes time to change a horse from one type of feed or hay to another because of their digestive system. Try to do it overnight and I guarantee the horse will colic. That's the main reason horse people are so resistant to change. The Vet bill can run from $150 for tubing the horse, to $7,000 for surgery, worst case the horse can die. That's a big motivator for not changing and the biggest reason why horse people are so picky. Fear of colic is universal. Most don't understand it medically but they know it's from something the horse ate (actually other things can cause it as well). That's why you need the storage to have a ready supply for them. Having your hay supplier run out when you've run out is pretty tramatic.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Changing the subject slightly. We have tremendous temp changes. Our weather can go from 60 below to 50 above in less than 24 hours. Colic is not uncommon. We use a shot of banamine, walk them for 15 or 20 minutes, then round pen them and work them until they start evacuating their bowels.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Mike120

I hear from a number of hay suppliers, who specialize in horse owners needs,Much of the value of their hay is they store a full years supply for each particular owner. 
That would be all right if the horse owners here were willing to pay for the extra service. It is my feeling that the horse owners here should be able to store all the hay they need at their own facility. But no I have had some who stored a few sq bales under the eaves of their roof. 
Another annoying habit of theirs is to agree to buy all their hay over a time frame and then later they fail to come by and pickup "their hay" during the agreed time frame. They find hay cheaper down the road and buy that. Then six months later come swinging in looking for "their hay". 
I thought of using hoop building for RB's but no more than people are willing to pay, HERE for RB's it is not worth the cost. I do store bales on a crushed rock. This prevents the bottom of the bales from mildew. Coastal bermudagrass builds a good thatch, and with that plus net wrap there is very minimal weathering of bale's outside. 
What really corks the bottle is a buyer who wants hay at less than the fertilizer value, but will buy bales that are rotted to the core just because the price sounds good. All that worry about color, colic, and mold is forgotten when hay is short or when they can buy hay for the cost of the baling.

Most of the time I only round bale when I start running out of room in the barn for squares.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

nwfarmer said:


> Changing the subject slightly. We have tremendous temp changes. Our weather can go from 60 below to 50 above in less than 24 hours. Colic is not uncommon. We use a shot of banamine, walk them for 15 or 20 minutes, then round pen them and work them until they start evacuating their bowels.


That's what I meant by "other things cause it as well". Weather change, stress, or just because they feel like it. We try to watch for it and have banamine by the gallon. Often a colic caused by a change of diet can cause an impaction. They are more dangerious and harder to treat.

I agree with you Mr Wilson. Personnally I wouldn't store hay for anyone unless it was paid for....otherwise it's first come, first served. There is a family down the road from me that usually puts up around 20-30K square bales and a lot of rounds. They have excellent hay and get a premium price. They will sell you all you want but they won't store it and they only sell it on Saturdays. I can always tell when they run out because then i start getting calls to see if I have any. I grow mainly for our own use, so I don't have to deal with them unless I have excess squares or cow rounds from cleaning up a field.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

My wife does the book work. When people ask us to save hay for them she quiz's them on the amount of horses, how much they feed etc. It all goes into the computer. She follows up and will call them and ask if they want the rest of the hay. You really have to stay on top of it because you can get screwed when and if they find cheaper hay. The other thing is if you want us to save a large amount for you and you don't stay in touch it will be gone after 30 days. It is a little more work but we have been able to build a good customer base. All of our hay was sold by Thanksgiving last year. Then it was just the regular customers we have had for several years picking it up. One customer missed the 30 days and he was a large buyer but my wife told him we have to eat also so that hay was sold to someone else. We have had people just send us checks in the mail and say they want hay. That is the Wyoming way. Very trusting people up here.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Mike120
Another thing about the colic. I don't think any horse in Wyoming is worth the $7000 for surgery. We sell hay to a quarter horse breeder but they sell out of state on the internet. You can buy horses here at the auction for $700. A good mountain horse for $1500. Some of the horse people only have horses for hunting in the mountains, roping in rodeos, and no show stuff locally that I know of. If a horse can't climb steep trails and carry an elk, or are fearful of grizzlies, or cows with calfs they will sell them quick. Cows get mean here when they have calfs in the mountains. They have to fight of wolves and bears.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

nwfarmer said:


> Mike120
> Another thing about the colic. I don't think any horse in Wyoming is worth the $7000 for surgery.


I grew up on a ranch in South Texas and I probably treated my saddle better than my horses because it cost more. I got a real education when my daughter got into hunters/jumpers and eventually, imported warmbloods. It's a whole different world and a much different way of looking at horses. It is not uncommon for a good Grand Prix jumper to sell for $150K or more. As I've said before....when you sell hay to them, you're selling pet food....the horses have life/medical insurance, and most owners are female. Just a different marketplace from the livestock market.


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