# Waiting for a dew...how high is too high?



## jackson (Jun 17, 2010)

I have some hay down (mostly alfalfa) that is overly dry.... crunchy. If a dew ever comes, how high can the moisture be for baling? I am using a NH 660 round baler. In my limited past experience, it can be testing 8% with my Farmex probe in the afternoon, and then if a dew does come, it seems to bale best at 20 to 23%. Is this too high, if the hay was once dry? I have a lot of trouble saving the leaves otherwise.

Any help would be greatly appreciated... haying is pretty new to me.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The dew moisture reads higher on the tester because it is reading the moisture on the outside of the hay.The inside is bone dry.I've baled at +30% on the monitor if the hay had been bone dry and make perfect hay.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Operator technique in using a moisture tester.

Believe it or not there is some judgement required with any and all moisture testing.

The most accurate, but not necessarily the most useful, is a set of scales and a way to heat a sample of hay. It will give you both the stem and the dew moisture as one number.

A probe or folded side of the bale chamber pickup & an electronic tester will initially tell you the surface or the humidity related moisture. The density of the bale will directly effect the reported bale moisture. i.e. you can use one to lie to yourself.

With a baler mounted pickup on the cut side, recommended for preservative applicators, will report the sap in the stems, for a good stem moisture but will fool you on leaf moisture.

To keep the leaves attached to the stems the leaves need enough moisture to be flexible, not brittle.

So in the case mentioned by swmnhay, with the stems as dry as a popcorn flatus, any moisture from the humidity (dew) will effect the leaves. This is good!

What you really want in this case is the humidity down next to the windrow to be 65% or better. Above 55% will work. In this case, where the humidity is on the rise, a humidity 80% or 85% will bale. 
Remember the stems are dry-dry and the only moisture is at the leaves. Saving the leaves.

I understand it is possible to use stem moisture, in the windrow, to provide the humidity to keep the leaves limber. I doubt I would have the nerve to try that.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

So Bill, If the leaves pickup moisture as the humidity rises, what keeps the stems from also picking up moisture? Is there any easy and quick way to actually measure the stems and or leaves by themselves? I guess I have been doing it the ole fashion way for so long but now all of this new fangled info has started to get my curiosity up. Mike


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I always like to bale at night (alfalfa) cause everything goes the right way - The leaves absorb the moisuture much easier than the stems, or maybe it's just that the leaf to stem ratio and the absorption of moisture.... Either way the leaves will stick but it won't be too wet to bale - in the morning we have to wait till it's dry enough, but by then the leaves have dried out too much and the stems still have moisture from the dew. I got one of those fancy portable weather gizmo's, but I haven't much opportunity to try it out. I'm sure that a guy could make a chart that relates the relative humidity, dewpoint and temperature to decide when to bale. I think the ultimate solution would be a dew simulator, but the price tag on one of those is waay too high.

Rodney


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Rodney, I'm like you. I have to bale my alfalfa at night but I was wondering how you can absolutely tell what the moisture is in the stems. I also have a Kestrel thingamajig but have not learned how to use it. It would be nice to have a chart to go by. Maybe Bill?


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## maknhay (Jan 6, 2010)

I would love to be able to bale everything at night but our weather here is so fickle you can't always rely on it. Just the other night we went out at 9:30 PM to rake and bale some second crop that was as dry as corn flakes that afternoon. South winds that day were bringing in humidity and the wind went down to nothing by 8:00 PM. My gut was telling me it would've been perfect for small squaring. We wanted to press it through the 3x3 baler but the Gazeeka was coming up with 23%. We raked it anyway and waited till noon the next day when it was down to the mid teens. A method I've used for years to determine how much stem moisture is present is to grasp a small handfull of crop (10 to 20 plants or so) with both hands and pretend your pedaling a bicycle. You can soon tell in a couple rotations what you have for barky stems with the ones that don't shatter apart. Using this test the other evening resulted in no shatter what so ever.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Maknhay, I have always used and still do the method that you use. I also started using a probe this year. That has been interesting to say the least. I am about 4 hours northwest of you and a lot of times we do not get any dew. That always makes it tricky. When you baled the next day, did you lose a lot of leaf? It's always a tossup if to wait or to bale. I usually choose to bale and constantly test. The site that haywilson gave ( AWIS) helps me make my decision. Mike


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## maknhay (Jan 6, 2010)

By the time we got started baling the leaves were plenty dry. But because we folded in dew moisture I knew we'd have to wait. As a result, it got bailed at 12 to 14% which gained us some weight. The opportunity to big bale with good leaf retention and still keep in condition in the barn don't happen very often. In my first post when I mentioned I'd like to bale at night is only for this reason. To be able to rake, bale and get an 80 in the barn before dark has grown on me. I know we give up some tons by baling on the dry side, but it's nice to know it will keep. When hay production was just one of the enterprises around here we small squared only. If the conditions allowed, we would run through the night.........and dragged butt the next day.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

If the leaves pickup moisture as the humidity rises, what keeps the stems from also picking up moisture? Is there any easy and quick way to actually measure the stems and or leaves by themselves? I guess I have been doing it the ole fashion way for so long but now all of this new fangled info has started to get my curiosity up. Mike 
Right or wrong the assumption is in the morning the stems are basically the same moisture as what they were last night when you go to bed. HERE, the first night the stems can be close to 50% moisture range. The leaves will be maybe as much as 30% moisture for average 40% moisture. If you are in Wisconsin, Dan Undersander's back yard, there will not be enough drying action to get this low. Regardless in our more humid climate when we go to bed the hay be DRY. Way too dry to bale, Stems and leaves maybe as low as 10% moisture both stems and leaves. In the morning there will be 90% humidity and the hay will be 40% moisture. 
Now in theory, The stems are still close to 10% moisture and the leaves are real close to 70% or 80% moisture. The average moisture is 40%. 
If we do our part, alfalfa will end up half and half, stems and leaves. 
I really like an on the go moisture testing system. Been using one maybe 25 years now. Many a time my eyes and hands were telling me the hay was still too damp to bale, the meter said 20% go and bale. It worked because the leaves were close to 20% possibly a little more, but the stems were still close to 10% from the previous day's drying.

- The leaves absorb the moisture much easier than the stems, or maybe it's just that the leaf to stem ratio and the absorption of moisture.... Either way the leaves will stick but it won't be too wet to bale - in the morning we have to wait till it's dry enough, but by then the leaves have dried out too much and the stems still have moisture from the dew.
The stems really do not pick up much moisture over night, unless you are where there is a really wet dew. The kind of dew where you can wash your car just with the dew for moisture. Get a lot of the bug carcases off, just drying the car with an old towel. I only see that much water in a dew when visiting In-laws in Florida and South Louisianan. HERE our heavy dews are good to clean the PU's windshield, and maybe the hood. 
Here I usually MUST be finished raking by 9 AM rarely as early as 8 AM or as late as 10 AM.

I'm like you. I have to bale my alfalfa at night but I was wondering how you can absolutely tell what the moisture is in the stems. I also have a Kestrel thingamajig but have not learned how to use it. It would be nice to have a chart to go by.Here's your chart. Just consider the source. 
With the > or < button cycle through until you have a Rain Drop and % ( *! *% ) That is your Relative Humidity information. Lay the Kestrel down next to the windrow. When it says 65% you can bale. Some baler guys use 55%. Then you can bale until the bales become too heavy, the tractor is grunting too hard, or the slip clutch is singing the blues.

For those of us who bale in daylight. If the hay after supper was so dry the stems snap, the skin will for sure not peel with a finger nail, or any other system you want. HERE in the morning the stems will still be dry. The leaves will be from wet to wet enough to be limber. Then when down next to the ground the Kestrel says 65% RH you can start bailing. My on the go will be hunting between 18% to 20% moisture with a charge or two up around 22% moisture. This hay is picked up last. Will end up on the top of the stack or out exposed to the air on the sides. For sure this hay is not sold in the field to go into some chicken coop converted to a hay barn. 
Here after starting the hay will be reported as 16% moisture. Get down and tighten up the pressure, the hay is too loose. HERE, about 3 hours of baling the humidity will be below 50% the hay in the 11% range and the leaves are flying. Unless that morning I raked a third or even a half of the hay, folding the surface into the windrow. This gives us another hour to bet the hay baled, and still keeping the leaves.

The horrible example would be the fellow pulls in to the field, after a leisurely noon meal, and rakes the hay. By this time Hay Wilson is heading to the barn with the baler, to return with the NH Bale wagon. When the Good Fellow is finished raking the now fully dry hay, he starts baling. Maybe with a old NH Chain drive round baler using string wrap. What should have been 30 nice round bales ends up as 20 bales of grass or legume straw. 
Now if your THERE is someplace where the humidity never goes below 50% you can bale till done or around dark when the hay is becoming too tough, and the bales too heavy. 
HERE is right on the dividing line between the Humid East and the Arid West. So for half the hay season we look like Indiana, and half the season like Western Kansas.

I guess we can go to bed with the stems around 20% moisture and start baling during the next day when the leaves are also down around 20% moisture. I am like you, how do we know what the stems are? In this case the hay will for sure sweat. Now we are talking numbers as if the entire field was all at one value, and that is just not so. Some parts of the field will be damper than others. Some charges will be damper than others. There will be wet slugs and possibly way too dry areas in the same field. 
This is why you want a mature operater on the machines. Some 12 year olds are mature, but when they reach 16 they loose it all, not to recover until they are a good bit older. Some people never mature, regardless of age. 
Ready for this? Many Girls make better rake hands than their brothers of uncles. Find one like that she will usually be the best hand on a baler and in a combine. 
One of the best hay hauling crew boss was a female high school senior. *A real looker*, and the boys on the crew would work themselves into a lump of clay trying to keep up with her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is another little bit for you. Given the chance girls make better pilots than men.


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