# ODE to the Welfare State



## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I got this in an e-mail this mornin' & thought some might like it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Funny how these things work....at that point in history, both my parents were democrats......then I came along.....oldest child. I preached and harped conservatism and pointed out the fallacies of the democratic fiscal policies.....this went on for years.....but the last several elections, they have voted Republican....who says you can't teach a old dog new tricks.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Funny how these things work....at that point in history, both my parents were democrats......then I came along.....oldest child. I preached and harped conservatism and pointed out the fallacies of the democratic fiscal policies.....this went on for years.....but the last several elections, they have voted Republican....who says you can't teach a old dog new tricks.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Ditto


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Obama presidency seems to have brought out who is really a socialist and who isn't much more than Clinton ever did.
I'm still just astounded at how liberal biased the media is and how quick they are to blame everything on republicans.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Most of the media outlets are owned by liberals.

Regards, Mike.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> Most of the media outlets are owned by liberals.
> 
> Regards, Mike.


I agree. But why!

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Can't say as to why for sure, but it has been that way for a hundred years.....first print and now video.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hmmmm?? Got me wondering because I'm sure there's money in it for the media but how do they get it by supporting liberals?

Ralph


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Here's my take.....when people become ultra rich (ie media moguls) they tend to rub elbows with the ultra liberal. Momma always said "if ya lay down with dogs....." Now these particular ultra liberals are flush with cash so it behoves them to cater to them, good for them financially. But there is no doubt that huge sums of cash makes one more liberal in most cases, and I think that's because they are living "out of the main stream", they're perception of reality is bent, the world tends to turn around them and they become more narsacistic in their own world.....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Here's my take.....when people become ultra rich (ie media moguls) they tend to rub elbows with the ultra liberal. Momma always said "if ya lay down with dogs....." Now these particular ultra liberals are flush with cash so it behoves them to cater to them, good for them financially. But there is no doubt that huge sums of cash makes one more liberal in most cases, and I think that's because they are living "out of the main stream", they're perception of reality is bent, the world tends to turn around them and they become more narsacistic in their own world.....


Are you talking about the media or hollywood?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Here's my take.....when people become ultra rich (ie media moguls) they tend to rub elbows with the ultra liberal. Momma always said "if ya lay down with dogs....." Now these particular ultra liberals are flush with cash so it behoves them to cater to them, good for them financially. But there is no doubt that huge sums of cash makes one more liberal in most cases, and I think that's because they are living "out of the main stream", they're perception of reality is bent, the world tends to turn around them and they become more narsacistic in their own world.....


I think it's to win a popularity contest. Once liberals become rich and powerful by telling lies, they win hearts and minds of "the great unwashed" by giving them free goodies. If you give the poor things (especially by taking them from the rich), you get a "robin hood" label and all the poor love you. That gets you the votes you need to win more and bigger elections.
Face it, were outnumbered by poor people. Poor people vote democrat 99% of the time. 
I'd be shocked if we ever have another republican president. The liberals have had wild success in creating a huge voting base of poor people addicted to govt handouts. 
I think it's over. The ball of socialism is rolling down the hill and gaining speed. 
The difference between Carter-era socialism and Obama-era socilalism is this time they have the voting base to STAY in power. Don't believe me? Just look at how many more people are on welfare, how many more illegal voters and lazy liberal kids we have.

Take from the rich, give to the poor. The "Joe the Plumber" moment where Obama clearly stated his intentions has come to roost.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Are you talking about the media or hollywood?


 I don't think you can disassociate the two....they are one in the same, tragic but true. It didn't use to be like that to the extent it is now. The line between reporting/reporters and movie star/actor has become blurred...


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Alright, I know what I'm doing:

I'm going anti-social, becoming a hermit, getting 1000's of guns and at least 10 rounds of ammo, disconnecting my computers, stockpiling lots of Scotch, putting a 15' chain link fence around my property, disconnecting my electricity and phone, buying 100 year old gardening tools, building a "safe" room (for my Scotch), and developing a web-site for all the a**holes in the world name ButtBook. Obama and Congress will be personally invited.

Ralph

Still a touch cranky this morning after celebrating the Cardinals losing the World Series.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Alright, I know what I'm doing:
> 
> I'm going anti-social, becoming a hermit, getting 1000's of guns and at least 10 rounds of ammo, disconnecting my computers, stockpiling lots of Scotch, putting a 15' chain link fence around my property, disconnecting my electricity and phone, buying 100 year old gardening tools, building a "safe" room (for my Scotch), and developing a web-site for all the a**holes in the world name ButtBook. Obama and Congress will be personally invited.
> 
> ...


How are you going to have any equine to train if you do all of the above Moses?



Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> How are you going to have any equine to train if you do all of the above Moses?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, Mike


I'm figuring it this way: When the economy collapses, gas goes to $20/gal, and the roads fall apart because the governments can't afford to repair them (like Illinois now), the horse industry will be the "new economy".

I will make a fortune by having the only mode of transportation available.

Ralph

Always thinking ahead; one-in-a-while even thinking clearly.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> I'm figuring it this way: When the economy collapses, gas goes to $20/gal, and the roads fall apart because the governments can't afford to repair them (like Illinois now), the horse industry will be the "new economy".
> 
> I will make a fortune by having the only mode of transportation available.
> 
> ...


Well I got a horse drawn sickle mower and a horse drawn dump rake I could use.Going to be hard finding a horse drawn Rd baler tho.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> Well I got a horse drawn sickle mower and a horse drawn dump rake I could use.Going to be hard finding a horse drawn Rd baler tho.


Lots of Amish pulling round balers with horses.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I never understood the logic in the difference in pulling(by horses) a motor driven unit to operate a square or round baler, versus riding a motor driven unit(tractor) to operate equipment. I guess I just never had the opportunity to ask a Amish person to explain that to me.....I just never wanted to offend them with this question. The Amish that I have met have always been a polite and peaceful people.....and I did not want to irritate them with a question about their beliefs. We don't have alot of Amish in the Eastern part of Tennessee but they are beginning to establish in the more agricultural mid and western part of the state.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Vol said:


> I never understood the logic in the difference in pulling(by horses) a motor driven unit to operate a square or round baler, versus riding a motor driven unit(tractor) to operate equipment. I guess I just never had the opportunity to ask a Amish person to explain that to me.....I just never wanted to offend them with this question. The Amish that I have met have always been a polite and peaceful people.....and I did not want to irritate them with a question about their beliefs. We don't have alot of Amish in the Eastern part of Tennessee but they are beginning to establish in the more agricultural mid and western part of the state.
> 
> Regards, Mike


It won't irritate them. If you ask politely, they will explain to you why they do what they do.
I have business relationships with Amish, they are very willing to explain their cultures and beliefs.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> I never understood the logic in the difference in pulling(by horses) a motor driven unit to operate a square or round baler, versus riding a motor driven unit(tractor) to operate equipment. I guess I just never had the opportunity to ask a Amish person to explain that to me.....I just never wanted to offend them with this question. The Amish that I have met have always been a polite and peaceful people.....and I did not want to irritate them with a question about their beliefs. We don't have alot of Amish in the Eastern part of Tennessee but they are beginning to establish in the more agricultural mid and western part of the state.
> 
> Regards, Mike


If you ask some of the younger ones, they will tell you why they do it, and if mom/dad ain't around they agree it doesn't make a lot of sense to them either. 

One told me once that a tractor would make most things too convenient, takes a while to hitch and unhitch a horse team.

But yah, using a team to pull a motor cart to pull another piece of equipment seems odd at best, you're already using a internal combustion engine, get a tractor already.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think the big issue is they are not allowed to drive a internal combustion vehicle. They can ride as a passenger,or tow a internal combustion engine behind them.
Each church is controlled by a bishop. Each bishop varies in how conservative or liberal they are with the laws that govern them.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I think the big issue is they are not allowed to drive a internal combustion vehicle. They can ride as a passenger,or tow a internal combustion engine behind them.
> Each church is controlled by a bishop. Each bishop varies in how conservative or liberal they are with the laws that govern them.


From what I understand, that vehicle cannot have wheels. The concrete working Amish around here use track type skid steers all day long.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Bonfire said:


> From what I understand, that vehicle cannot have wheels. The concrete working Amish around here use track type skid steers all day long.


That's some funny stuff.....can't drive with wheels but tracks are "a ok"......weird to say the least


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

It's worse than that, dawg. Most likely it's not the wheel that is the problem but the air inside. Therefore rather than use steel wheels or hard rubber they will use tracks. Some use foam filled wheels. Like JD said, depends on your Bishop. Self propelled combustion engines are allowed except for fieldwork and transportation. Again, that varies by community.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Whatever their reason for not driving a tractor may be is just fine with me. For the vast vast majority of Amish are peaceful, hard working, moral people.....and that is something this country is in very short supply of......and unlike 80% of this country, I understand that they pay what they owe.

Regards, Mike


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Vol said:


> Whatever their reason for not driving a tractor may be is just fine with me. For the vast vast majority of Amish are peaceful, hard working, moral people.....and that is something this country is in very short supply of......and unlike 80% of this country, I understand that they pay what they owe.
> 
> Regards, Mike


No doubt. The ones I've hired to do a few jobs around here have been very good to work with. Their work ethic and sense of responsibility are outstanding.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

discbinedr said:


> It's worse than that, dawg. Most likely it's not the wheel that is the problem but the air inside. Therefore rather than use steel wheels or hard rubber they will use tracks. Some use foam filled wheels. Like JD said, depends on your Bishop. Self propelled combustion engines are allowed except for fieldwork and transportation. Again, that varies by community.


Here you will drive past farms with a lot of farm machinery on steel wheels. They have lots of older Case-IH or IH stuff with spoke steel rims.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

So what is it about "air" that makes it unacceptable? I guess I just don't understand why "air" is not allowed (in most cases I guess), is it based on religious beliefs? I would think so as religion seems to be the driving force behind the Amish community, if so does anyone know what excerpt from the Bible or scrolls that pertains to "air" in tires? I've always felt that "air" was your first gift from God and the last thing God takes away from you in death when you draw your last breath, but I'm not sure I understand (or should understand) the concept of "air" in tires......the internal combustion engine will not operate without "air" so it must be the fact that the "air" is controlled into a finite space?

Like you guys, I have no problems with the Amish, but then again, I don't know any Amish nor have I had any work performed by their "craftsmen" who make those stupid little heaters, which btw seems to be exploiting the Amish community for profit, or a TV show that seems to cast a disparaging light on the Amish community. Is technology taboo with the Amish.....perhaps that's the reason, they prefer living in the past? Down here we don't have Amish, we do have the Mennonites here, I think they are somewhat similar, but I'm ignorant of their beliefs as well. I do know they have no problems making money on pay for hunt dove shoots, so I guess that firearms are ok, so that must mean technology is ok with them, otherwise they may make us throw spears at dove birds ( we are allowed to use shotguns thankfully) I also know they seem to be god fearing people that the local authorities have no problems with, and they seem to handle their differences internally.

I would like to have a one on one with a member of the community to find out such things, I doubt if they would be forthcoming to an outsider tho.......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You have to remember that just like ANY other community, cult or group, they have good members and bad members. Ones who cheat and ones who play by the rules.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Trying to understand the Amish traditions from the outside will give you brain warp, dawg.Some outsiders have attempted to join the Amish and probably 80% or more end up leaving again.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

somedevildawg said:


> Down here we don't have Amish, we do have the Mennonites here, I think they are somewhat similar,


We have Hutterites west of here.They are totally different as far as farming practices.Best,newest machinery out there.Large scale hogs and poultry.State of the art machine shops.

The wives and kids take care of large gardens and make their own clothes.

They even have their own insurance co,found that out after one hit me at the stock yards.

All there money goes to the head honcho and he controls it.If they want to buy or rent land they will get it at whatever price!!

Soo they save a lot of $ on housing,food,clothing and going to town.


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