# Trouble brewing



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Dow falls 512 in steepest decline since '08 crisisUpdated: Aug 4, 2011 - 17:08PM David K. Randall

AP NEW YORK -Gripped by fear of another recession, the financial markets suffered their worst day Thursday since the crisis of 2008. The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 500 points, its ninth-steepest decline ever.

The sell-off wiped out the Dow's gains for 2011. It put the Dow and broader stock indexes into what investors call a correction - down 10 percent from the highs of this spring.

"We are continuing to be bombarded by worries about the global economy," said Bill Stone, the chief investment strategist for PNC Financial.

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I guess Wall Street is wanting another muti-Trillion dollar bail-out from obama for their annual Christmas bonuses. This is not good news.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I hope this link get you to the correct chart so that you can see the long term effects.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^DJI+Interactive#chart2:symbol=^dji;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined

After loading the chart, click on "MAX" at center bottom of the chart to see the full chart.

Look a the run up in 1976-1987 (move the cursor left and right to slide along the curve; the date will be in the upper left side. I watch the market crash first hand in Oct 1987 when the Dow dropped 700 points. I had just developed software that would anticipate what accounts would be on margin call for commodities trading and had installed it in one brokerage firm. That firm lost only $4000 that day while another firm lost $90,000,000.

The run up starting in 1994 is the beginning of the problem, This chart shows a classic head and shoulders pattern and we are on the right shoulder now. Expect the market to drop big time relatively soon.

This pattern of market behavior over the last 5 years is mirroring EXACTLY the pattern that happened in the Great Depression beginning in the 1920's!

Personally, I am investing in ammunition simply because the majority of the people in this country do not have the same moral character that people had in the 1920-30's and that could lead to trouble! Big Time!.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

On the other hand, a major correction might be helpful in the long run. Not sure about other places but land prices in Indiana are getting insane.

Dad said something awhile ago about if things got bad enough, I might have to start locking the cows in the barn at night as a few might disappear before morning. Personally I think that's highly unlikely as most folks are just too lazy anymore to actually try to butcher something as large as a cow in the dead of night.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

mlappin said:


> On the other hand, a major correction might be helpful in the long run. Not sure about other places but land prices in Indiana are getting insane.
> 
> Dad said something awhile ago about if things got bad enough, I might have to start locking the cows in the barn at night as a few might disappear at night. Personally I think that's highly unlikely as most folks are just too lazy anymore to actually try to butcher something as large as a cow in the dead of night.


I've heard of it happening!Kill a cow and just take a bit of the meat.They are not going to gut it and skin it,just going to take some of the easier stuff and waste the rest.

Yep most will be to lazy.To easy to get welfare check every month.Or debit card now I think.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> Yep most will be to lazy.To easy to get welfare check every month.Or debit card now I think.


Get this, and I haven't verified it, but the last I heard the EBT card (welfare/foodstamps) in Indiana can now be used at ATM's to get cash!?!? Seriously...WTF? Kinda BS anyways, can't buy laundry soap, shampoo, toilet paper, or cleaning supplys with food stamps but Dorito's, potato chips, candy, pop and a ton of other crap is OK. Can also buy shrimp, crab, lobster and other top end cuts of meat, maybe I'm just a hard ass, but the EBT thing should only cover potatoes, hamburger, and frozen vegetables and of course soap, laundry detergent and other honest cleaning supplies. Don't like it, then go get a job.


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## RVT (May 6, 2010)

> I've heard of it happening!Kill a cow and just take a bit of the meat.They are not going to gut it and skin it,just going to take some of the easier stuff and waste the rest.
> 
> 
> > This happens in Florida with horses. Take select cuts and leave the rest.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

... In addition to the EBT card complaints above I would like to offer/sugest "workfare" No more well fare, you work for the community doing unskilled, manual labour (if you are physically able of course) in order to get a "pay" check. A sort of civil servant if you wish to look at it as such, and don't even try to imagine how long the line ups will be at the Dr's office with people trying to get declared as un-fit to work!
As far as I can see this would solve several key issues, thgings would get done that the regular union civil servants will not do, wellfare fraud will go down as people try to get real jobs rather than work hard to get the workfare check. The government could even offer this labour force out to the public for hire and make a little money back.

I'm sure there are alot of problems with this, but I like the principles of the idea!


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## Haymike56 (May 3, 2010)

I agree with the rest of you!! If you don't work you don't get paid. The only way our ancesters got ahead was to get out there and work hard. THATS HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT AND THATS THE ONLY WAY WE WILL EVER GET OUT OF THIS MESS! Oh, and by the way if you want public aid then you will submit to drug tests, I have to in order to keep my job that pays for your aid.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So I think what're all saying is this:

_What a good Idea!

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the common good.

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Government subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Government welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job._


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

Damn right Marty, I hope who ever wrote that peice is an elected offical of some kind but I seriously doubt it, nobody who is willing to speak out, and make noise about something like this will ever be elected. As mentioned these welfare recepients do get a vote, and they unlike the vast majority of other demographic groups do exercise the right to vote (sad to say). I don't think that every single person on welfare cheats the system, I am sure that some people are dilligently trying to improve their situation, just not anybody I know. And I do know of employment insurance cheats who work for cash to avoid any deductions, I know of workplace safety insurance board (WSIB) cheats who are getting a compensation chech for some kind of "disability" that they have, and yet can live out their lives with no visible side effects of their dissability... and as far as that goes(and to a much lesser extent, but guilt is guilt), who has taken cash for hay or some other commodity and "forgot" to claim on their taxes (me too). So it is hard for me to point the finger, when I am not perfectly innocent in this mess of lies and cheats but we need to stop making it soo easy for the low-lifes to cheat the rest of us. And that is what they are doing. Where to begin??? I guess I can only worry about I can control.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> who has taken cash for hay or some other commodity and "forgot" to claim on their taxes (me too). So it is hard for me to point the finger, when I am not perfectly innocent in this mess of lies and cheats but we need to stop making it soo easy for the low-lifes to cheat the rest of us. And that is what they are doing. Where to begin??? I guess I can only worry about I can control.


Well...I've done it as well, and in my defense, it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the more we give government, the more they piss away.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

One of the best slogans I ever saw on a T-shirt "WELFARE--keeping lazy people unployed since 1933". I am only 38 years old and have not lived a large part of the history of this country, but I have been assuring my kids of one thing. That is we will go to Wal-Mart someday soon and the shelves will be empty of food. I have never seen it in my lifetime, my dad and mom have not seen it either, but my kids will. This economy is at the brink of crashing hard again, massive inflation has already started (just look at grain, livestock, and petroleum prices), and the ordinary person making an hourly wage will not be able to put food on the table and gas in the tank. I don't want to stir up the "China Card", but those folks over their will buy up our food supply because they can afford it because they don't sit on their lazy arses all day, watching tv, smoking cig's and waiting on the welfare check.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)




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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Excellent Barnrope. Our President needs to recite this every morning upon arising. Pray for this country and pray for strong, fiscally conservative leadership in 2012. Now that our credit rating in this country has been downgraded for the first time in history, that probably(hopefully) will make obama a lame duck.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hurray for S&P downgrading US debt, even though it means bad news for us plain old folk! At least they had the courage to step forward and say what has needed to be said for years!

Short term, we, as citizens of the US, will probably be hit by high interest rates, higher taxes, higher inflation, higher unemployment--all at the same time. Great Depression #2.

Long term, we stand a better chance of getting things back on a better track.

Starting today, I think I will only take payment in gold or ammunition until the dust on all this nonsense settles. Round bales for G$1 (one gold dollar), sm sq bales 25 for G$1. Oh, that's right, residents of the US can't own gold, so make that ammunition. A$1 = 500 rounds 9mm.

On a more serious note, I am thoroughly disgusted with the political process and the total mismanagement at both the Federal and Illinois levels. Illinois best claim to fame nowadays is that we're #1 in most convicted politicians and governors in jail! Right behind the 2nd most indebted state in the country.

If this nonsense keeps up, I may even run for office myself; or secede from the Union.

Getting off my soapbox now.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> If this nonsense keeps up, I may even run for office myself; or secede from the Union.
> 
> Ralph


Where yah going to go though?

The rest of the world seems to be in the same mess. Or I should say the rest of the cradle to grave society's are in the same trouble. Greece, Spain, Italy....

Any truth in that I heard a case of beer is around $35 in Canada? If so, how much of that is sin tax?


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.


In my younger days, my Dad had a term for people of this ilk. If memory serves correctly, he called 'em "BUMS". Don't want to be a "bum", don't behave like one! He also used the same term interchangably with career politicians. Of course the term "leaches" was used in the same sentence alot too.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

**QUOTE** Any truth in that I heard a case of beer is around $35 in Canada? If so, how much of that is sin tax? 
Absolutely, In Ontario the provincal government handles all of the alcohol sales through the "Brewer's Reatail" and "The Beer Store" and also LCBO (licquor control bureau of Ontario). There are also VERY few selected local stores that can sell booze but must adhere to all of the provinces rules and regulations, hours of business (the business can keep whatever hours it wants but only sell alcohol during certain hrs) And yes name brand such as Coors light sells for $42 (more or less by a dollar or so) for 24 cans from our legal provincal retailers. In Quebec, which is less than an hour from here you can buy 60 Coors Light at Costco for $67, up to 10 cases a month. So Quebec sells their alcohol at corner stores, grocery stores and even Costco for WAY cheaper than here, their deposit is 5 cents and ours is 10, so actually you make money by drinking french beer... well at least $.05 per can. Oh there is no doubt about the corruption in our provincal government, and to talk about "green energy," hydro/electricity prices is a debate that I can spend days on, here in our province we have a natural gas fired power generation plant that had won awards from the agency that polices the gas emmissions throughout the world by these types of industries but our current government wants to close all "unsustainable, fossil fuel powered generating stations" to help clean up our air. They have grouped this plant in with "dirty coal" plants and earmarked it for closure. To make up for this the province has invested billions in solar and wind power projects, and also provided grants, loans and 25 year contracts with huge incentives to build and sell power back to Hydro One (provincial utility). The highest paying project is roof-top mounted solar, wich pays 60.2 cents pet kilowatt hour, current price Hydro One sells power for is around 7 cents. Can you do that math, how does it make sence to pay for a commodity at $0.602 and sell at $0.07??? This stuff just pisses me off


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Toyes Hill Angus said "The highest paying project is roof-top mounted solar, which pays 60.2 cents pet kilowatt hour, current price Hydro One sells power for is around 7 cents. Can you do that math, how does it make sense to pay for a commodity at $0.602 and sell at $0.07???"

Sounds like our ethanol production in the U.S. that Congress finally wised up and jerked the props from under. I personally know a man from Knoxville, TN that lost 11 million dollars in an ethanol plant built in Kentucky that they ended up selling for SCRAP!

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Dow loses another 600 today. If you had thought about taking advantage of 0% financing on tractors or equipment, you better make a move soon as all those type of incentives might end soon. Cost of credit will definately rise now.

Regards, Mike


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