# Livestock and Climate Change



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

https://www.beefmagazine.com/grazing-systems/researchers-conclude-livestock-have-no-detectable-effect-climate?fbclid=IwAR1VEHNB4oKHJFg40ruV7pUEJ5_mYUFHfPgqCwVp39Mqdi8-3WZ60yFz110


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I think I read somewhere that there where 10 times more buffalo in this country then cattle today. I guess buffalo didn’t fart or burp.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

I have eatin Buffalo, and I am gad we killed them all and started raising cattle. Doesn't get any better than beef.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Saw a similar study done by a European scientist done in Africa on grazing animals. The disappearance of herding animals had a negative affect on the environment. They also found the aeration, seeding and fertilizing affect of grazing animals on the soil was vital to health of the environment.
IMO, these "studies" done by "scientists" are mostly well disguised anti meat groups trying to eliminate the consumption of beef.
Just like the "scientists" who are trying to eliminate fossil fuels. 
At the end of the day, the planet itself and the sun have more affect of heat/cool cycles than anything man ever will.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Saw a similar study done by a European scientist done in Africa on grazing animals. The disappearance of herding animals had a negative affect on the environment. They also found the aeration, seeding and fertilizing affect of grazing animals on the soil was vital to health of the environment.
> IMO, these "studies" done by "scientists" are mostly well disguised anti meat groups trying to eliminate the consumption of beef.
> Just like the "scientists" who are trying to eliminate fossil fuels.
> At the end of the day, the planet itself and the sun have more affect of heat/cool cycles than anything man ever will.


Allen Savory and_ Sir Albert Howard both have wrote books on the this very subject. Savory's book gets more into grazing and how beneficial it is to grass and plants vs letting it sit idle or even control burns. Both are good reads._


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Dad talks about way back in the late 50's when he rode for a couple ranchers out on the Red Desert that there were some squares that had been fenced out by the government. I think one was south of Shoshoni Wyoming; if I remember right he said that there was less grass inside those squares than the outside. He also said that they would put the herd in those so they would not have to ride herd all night.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I switched to a fast planting system. I keep my DOT number current (got a semi that I literally go anywhere in the country to get hay). I am aware of the change!!!!!!! It's here, and there ain't no denying it. Y'all talk about the lousy weather.................WTF do ya think it's coming from???????????? It's here guys.

Put your head in the sand, with yer butt up in the air, ,,,,,,,,,,or prepare for it. Y'all talk about bug out bags, and survivalist crap..........this is the real deal guys. Climate change gonna kill ya before anything else.

And I ain't a tree hugger, snowflake, or any other of that crap. I'm a guy that wants to keep my way of living going for as long as I live, and as long as the kids live.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

farmersamm said:


> And I ain't a tree hugger, snowflake, or any other of that crap. I'm a guy that wants to keep my way of living going for as long as I live, and as long as the kids live.


One of the things I learned in management is that people do not like changes! Especially big changes.

But, if they begin the change themselves, they are all in favor of it.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, we do causes a change of some sort. It's inevitable. (Might have something to do with Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.)

I was part of a group in Chicago that fought against "restoring public lands to the way they were in 1800", i.e., prairie land. The people on the other side railed against invasive species like purple loose strife, hawthorne and multiflora rose. While I agree that those plants are a problem, Pandora's box had already been opened.

What they failed to considered was the fact that 10,000 years ago, the land they wanted to restore was under a glacier. Maybe their thinking was erroneous or incomplete? (Actually, there was big money behind their movement.)

The question is: At what stage does a change become a problem?

Ralph

Coffee is working pretty good this morning.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think it's normal cyclical change aided in a very small percentage by man and for all we know what the "tree huggers" are doing may have a more negative affect than positive.
Not sure those ugly fields of solar panels absorbing sun doesn't have a negative affect on the dirt underneath them, or the reflections don't confuse migratory birds.
Not sure those giant ugly windmills aren't killing millions of birds that eat the bugs that dramatically affect our crops.

Bottom line is, we really don't know jack on how much climate change is man-caused.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

farmersamm said:


> I switched to a fast planting system. I keep my DOT number current (got a semi that I literally go anywhere in the country to get hay). I am aware of the change!!!!!!! It's here, and there ain't no denying it. Y'all talk about the lousy weather.................WTF do ya think it's coming from???????????? It's here guys.
> 
> Put your head in the sand, with yer butt up in the air, ,,,,,,,,,,or prepare for it. Y'all talk about bug out bags, and survivalist crap..........this is the real deal guys. Climate change gonna kill ya before anything else.
> 
> And I ain't a tree hugger, snowflake, or any other of that crap. I'm a guy that wants to keep my way of living going for as long as I live, and as long as the kids live.


I'm not sure what a fast planting system has to do with it?? If you keep a semi to go "anywhere in the country" then you are contributing to the problem  (just sayin') I'm aware of the changes, you are aware of the changes, there ain't no denying it for sure.....BUT, where do you really think it's coming from.....cyclical, man made? That is the 64k dollar question to which there is no good answer. It's been debated and studied for decades, everyone seems to have an agenda......personally I think it's two-fold and we as humans need to do all that we can to continue to study and innovate, our descendants are relying on us....
Climate change is not gonna kill us before "anything else" there are far greater problems facing us as a people than climate change, besides that, what exactly can we do about it to completely change the course with a record number of people on the planet every day, the problem with regards to human involvement will only get worse despite our best attempts to alleviate the issue. One thing that it will eventually lead to....it's inevitable, population control  it's coming.....I can think of entire masses of people we should start by sterilizing now.....
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone on this site talking about bug outs or survivalist stuff.....although we do have some rather large bugs and dealing with them is definately survival of the fittest (or dumbest) .....my .01


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Maybe we all need to drink the Jim Jones kool-aid and let the earth go back au natural. OK, you doomsdayers go first....and the rest of us will hold the sky up while waiting.

Regards, Mike


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

farmersamm said:


> I switched to a fast planting system. I keep my DOT number current (got a semi that I literally go anywhere in the country to get hay). I am aware of the change!!!!!!! It's here, and there ain't no denying it. Y'all talk about the lousy weather.................WTF do ya think it's coming from???????????? It's here guys.
> 
> Put your head in the sand, with yer butt up in the air, ,,,,,,,,,,or prepare for it. Y'all talk about bug out bags, and survivalist crap..........this is the real deal guys. Climate change gonna kill ya before anything else.
> 
> And I ain't a tree hugger, snowflake, or any other of that crap. I'm a guy that wants to keep my way of living going for as long as I live, and as long as the kids live...........................Surely you say this in jest ? If not I will hold my tongue , did you vote for Hillary ? or did you feel the Bern ?


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I always thought of climate change like a swing going from one side to the other. I think that us humans either by population growth or pollution or whatever you want to say just gave it a push. It is accelerating but I think it was going that way one way or the other as it's done for millions of years. The only thing any of us knows for certain is that it will be interesting and unpredictable for sure. The weather is definitely more unpredictable. All we can do is live day by day take it as it comes.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I wonder how many tons of carbon have been released from the soil by our farming practices. They claim in our area that the native prairie used to be 6 to 8 percent organic matter. Now its less than 2 percent. Also how much carbon was released from all the rainforests that were slashed and burned to farm that ground. Makes one wonder if the rise in CO2 levels is from burning fossil fuels or simply released carbon that used to be stored in the dirt.

Either way if its cylical or man made, Man will never fix it, only make it worse. Let mother nature run her course and she'll fix it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I just heard a study came out (might have been from NASA, but not sure) that SUN SPOTS are going to affect the solar gain of the earth and could cause global cooling in a way more serious than anything we've seen to date.

Wonder if thats man made or Trumps fault?


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

You give me 10,000 years and I will tell you who was right.

If the glaciers covered the US to the Ohio river who's campfire melted them.

Three hundred years ago they did not even have a thermometer in ever town so how do we know how hot it was.

All a guesstimate, my vote is we don't affect it much at all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ray 54 said:


> You give me 10,000 years and I will tell you who was right.
> 
> If the glaciers covered the US to the Ohio river who's campfire melted them.
> 
> ...


Sounds simplistic, but still can't understand a couple things:

1. How we know weather years from now, but can't give an accurate forecast for a week?
2. I've seen many weather experts say a little warming would create many positives, one was a great expansion of grasslands which is highly beneficial to life and ecosystems. 
3. I keep getting contradictory data that the planet may actually be cooling. 
4. "Experts" keep lamenting how climate change is resulting in stronger, more destructive storms, but what is really happening is we are building more man made structures in areas where we shouldn't build. So when a storm does hit, it's not that the storms are stronger, it's that they are more destructive because more material wealth is destroyed. Especially areas prone to coastal flooding.
5. Nobody can prove that we are not simply going through natural climate change which IS a proven scientific phenomena.
6. Why aren't all the climate change experts more active in the countries that change climate of the planet in ways they claim? The US doesn't pollute like China, but the focus seems to be on the US where EPA regulations are pretty strict, CAFE standards are much better than just decades ago, recycling is very active, and much of our once polluting industry is bankrupt and gone decades ago.

None of this global climate change passes the smell test because the "experts" all want penalties or taxes paid to help offset climate change.

Its a scheme to redistribute money that uses the emotion of guilt to get us to act.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> 4. "Experts" keep lamenting how climate change is resulting in stronger, more destructive storms, but what is really happening is we are building more man made structures in areas where we shouldn't build. So when a storm does hit, it's not that the storms are stronger, it's that they are more destructive because more material wealth is destroyed. Especially areas prone to coastal flooding.


That's science according to Rush Limbaugh, but it's 'fake science.' Intensity of storms are measured by storm metrics and data: wind speeds, the rate at which hurricanes intensify, pressure changes, amount of precipitation, frequency of occurence, etc. None of those have anything to do with structure and property damage, especially when you're measuring the power of a hurricane still in the middle of the ocean, for instance. And yes, these metrics do provide evidence of significant increases in storm intensity over the last several decades.

With regards to your other points...

1. Weather is not climate

2. warmer weather can be better for certain specific microecosystems, but not when you look at the big picture.

3. It would depend what you consider 'data' and who it's coming from.
4. I just addressed above

5. That's not exactly true either. You can compare to previous patterns of change and rates of change and see that an outlier to this pattern is emerging. Few things are ever 'proven,' because our knowledge and understanding of science are always evolving. That's why we often use phrases like 'provides evidence of.' The scientific method provides for forming the most accurate conclusions based on the information available to us at the time.

6. The focus isn't only on the US. It might seem that way because you live here, but go visit Europe for a week if you want to see crazy environmental conscientiousness, especially Scandinavia.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hayjosh said:


> That's science according to Rush Limbaugh, but it's 'fake science.' Intensity of storms are measured by storm metrics and data: wind speeds, the rate at which hurricanes intensify, pressure changes, amount of precipitation, frequency of occurence, etc. None of those have anything to do with structure and property damage, especially when you're measuring the power of a hurricane still in the middle of the ocean, for instance. And yes, these metrics do provide evidence of significant increases in storm intensity over the last several decades.
> 
> With regards to your other points...
> 
> ...


Even if everything you say is true (and I do not believe it is, but that's not important), we don't know with certainty its MAN caused.
We DO know there are natural climate has changes; warmer/cooler, severe/less severe for millions of years. THAT IS proven science.
Man changing climate is much more speculative and is suspiciously tied to taxing people and shifting the money they seize through taxation and redistributing it. 
It's also very suspicious that those who espouse their man made climate change theories do little themselves do help the situation. The Al Gores, Bernie Sanders of the world have no problem living lavish lifestyles and jet setting around the world in private jets consuming thousands of gallons of aviation fuel polluting the atmosphere while telling us to cut back on our consumption of fuel.
I would never stand in the way of cleaner energy or energy technology, but I'll be darned if I'm going to be lied to and forced into it with taxation while entire industries, like coal mining, fraking and oil drilling and all the people who work there become unemployed so we can import Chinese made solar panels and foreign made windmills.
Speaking of windmills-in my extensive travels around this country, I have to say, those things are BUTT UGLY.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Climate change/global warming is not the problem its made out to be. The real problem is its a way for a certain group to gain control of the masses or get rich trying. The proof is in the fact that the ONLY way to stop climate change is to give the governments more power, money and control. Answer this, when has it ever been a good thing to give the governments more and more power, money and control? History is full of revolts and revolutions of the people taking back the power, money and control from the governments Its a political fear mongering issue not a science issue like they want us to believe. The proof of that is they have been predicting climate doom and gloom for 50 years and have not been right yet! First with global cooling, than with global warming, than with climate change to cover their basis with either, but still say things are warming. But they have been wrong all the time for 50 years and every prediction they have made over that 50 years has not come true either. What other scientific theory is still used when its always been wrong? For example 30 years ago in school they taught use Florida would be completely under water in 20 years. Oops they missed that one. Also to tell us the science is settled is political. Anyone who knows anything about science knows its never settled. New evidence comes forth all the time and theories are adjusted. Science is always progressing but never is completely settled.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Evidence would suggest that "climate change" (used to be called "global warming" until things cooled off if I remember correctly and the wheels fell off of that gravy train) scientists are no different that the politicians when it comes to pushing an agenda and making "facts" to fit their agenda. Remember when NASA climate change scientists were changing historical data to fit the narrative? Remember when NASA thumbed their noses at a congressional subpoena when looking into it? Prolly not...wasn't on Communist News Network (CNN). 

https://science.house.gov/news/press-releases/former-noaa-scientist-confirms-colleagues-manipulated-climate-records

You can surely believe THAT website as it has "science" *and* "dot gov" in it...neither of which would EVER lie to the sheeple....I promise 

Mark :huh:


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