# JD 4230 power stays on when key is off



## Tpeak (Apr 4, 2018)

When I kill my tractor and turn the key to the off position the radio and a/c blower stay on and will run the battery down if I don’t disconnect the battery’s. I took the ignition switch out (unplugged the wires going to it) and they stay on. Anybody have any suggestions on what it might be?


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Welcome T, I don't have any ideas (other than checking switch, with a test light, being it sounds like a bad switch), but I'm thinking could be expensive if you don't get'r fixed.

Larry


----------



## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Cab relay under dash stuck on?


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Either the switch is bad or a relay is stuck or wires are burnt together.....without knowing more.


----------



## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

On a 4230, my money's on the switch itself. You could test it by checking continuity across the accessory terminals on the back while switching the key on and off. Just not sure which two terminals that would be for certain...


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Either the switch is bad or a relay is stuck or wires are burnt together.....without knowing more.


DITTO. I'll guess problem is accessory relay instead of wiring or ign switch. While you have cowling off in front of dash to check accessory relay would be a good time to check tightness of nuts on all circuit breakers on board. The nuts have a long history of loosening from heating of plastic board at connection.


----------



## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

Wait I thought he said that he completely took the switch out and its still on...that means it is hardwired, the switch wires/circuit are shorting somewhere.


----------



## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I believe the relay connects power direct from the battery (it's a load and wire diameter thing). The signal wire (from ign switch) merely provides current to activate the relay coil to close the circuit which draws high amps. So, like the other guys, I'd bet on a relay.

Most stuff uses the chassis as ground, so I wouldn't be looking for a melted wire situation. Any melted wires would probably be a power wire melted to ground. Be lottsa sparks, and a fire.

Don't take my advice for good though. I'm the guy that pulled a PTO when it was a cable blocking the lever


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

farmersamm is correct. Ign switch when turned on sends electrical current to engage accessory relay. My guess is relay is stuck in engaged position.


----------



## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

Roj...where does the neutral safety switch come in? Gotta be careful to double check you are in park when trouble shooting ignition stuff. Does that also go to the relay?


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Neutral start circuit is not involved with accessory circuit for AC & radio


----------



## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Not to confuse or anything, but weird thanks can happen if ground wires lose continuity. We have a 4440 that if you turned on the lights you had to disconnect the battery to get one to go out. It wasn't on bright, but was still lighting. Turns out the light ground was corroded off and somehow the system found ground through the lamp to keep the relay energized. Twas a head scratcher...
Keep an open mind but don't overlook the obvious. Get a schematic to help trace the circuits.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Farmineer95

I'm not stating your statement is incorrect but I fail to see how a ""lack of ground"" could cause a relay to receive electricity BUT stranger things have happened. Was this relay in question 1 of the 3 under the dash controlled by the dimmer switch?

Thanks,Jim


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Floating grounds can cause all kinds of weird things.....the relay was probably bleeding voltage as the relay tried to seek ground......in other words resistance should have been 0.0 ohms but instead was 1.5ohms (something like that) and that can cause chaos in a 12v direct current system. If the ground was completely open the relay would not have allowed voltage to pass. Never underestimate the ground circuit of a 12vdc system, all components need a good 0.0 ground or ground loops and floating grounds are possible and they can be very tricky to diagnose......
This reminds me of a situation that happened to me the other day at the Expo.....we were prepping a tractor to hook up to a bale bandit for the show. The tractor in question was a new Case 5210? (Not the number but close) it's got the stupidest feature, cool but I can foresee problems in the service department......we couldn't get power to the Bandit, so as part of my diagnosis I started checking power at the source (battery)....check battery voltage (good) check chassis ground, (hmmmm, no ground) can't get a ground anywhere except battery, well that's strange......tractor cranks right up! Wth......so I check it again, hmmmmm, now I have a ground....,weird. So I think my test light must be "acting up" so I try again....no (-) voltage, wth? So there happens to be a Case mechanic close by so I go ask him......sure enuf, Case thought it would be a good idea to isolate the ground through a relay that is timed to open after a few seconds after cutting off the tractor, thus eliminating all voltage to the tractor......kinda handy, but I can foresee problems with that circuit and real problems with troubleshooting electrical problems in the service department......probably seemed like a good idea at the time, I'm not convinced....


----------



## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

All I know is I repaired the ground wire and it worked as it should. Maybe it wasn't energized but found ground through the coil in the relay itself? Yes, one of the 3 down by the diff lock pedal.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

During the ground repair did you happen to switch dimmer switch location from bright to dim/vice versa?


----------



## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Maybe? I don't recall how I stumbled on the bad ground. I recall thinking the relay was stuck and replaced them to no avail.


----------



## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm not particularly good at electrical stuff.

And, I just realized that modern tractors have a ton of plastic on them,, which I guess would actually require a wired ground circuit to get back to chassis ground.in some cases. All my stuff is steel bodied, so there's mainly one wire hookups.........power to the accesory, with the accessory grounded(bonded) to part of the metal body/chassis.

So, a floating ground can? try to find any available ground when threre's potential I guess? She's not grounded where you want it grounded, so searches for a ground if there's voltage. (This is a danger in not having your electric panel in the shop grounded to earth from the panel body I think.......YOU could become the ground)

If there's no voltage going to a relay, how can it be possible for a floating ground in the relay, or somewhere in the grounding system for that relay/panel, to find ground for no voltage?

OP says that the stuff still stays on when the ign switch is removed. *But has he actually tested to find out whether there's voltage downstream from the switch when it's removed, or turned to the off position?* I'm thinking that you could have two adjacent hot wires rubbing, insulation bad, and one transfer voltage to what is supposed to be a dead circuit. This brings me back to the fact that I'm not real good at this, and simply test for voltage either upstream, or downstream, of what's messin' up. If that circuit which the ign switch is on, still has voltage, it has to be coming from somewhere (if it isn't a faulty relay).

Dunno if this makes sense.


----------



## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

If this is the case, I'm thinking you should see power to the wire coming out of the ign switch even when it's turned off or removed. The power would be backfed up that wire.

I'm just throwin' crap up in the wind,, and hoping it scatters :lol:


----------

