# Moo Moo Woes from the inexperienced



## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I have a bottle-fed heifer that's 12-13 months old. She was in dad's pasture with two of my steers (and about 150 head of sheep); 22 days ago, she got out and went gallivanting. Found her about 4 days later in the neighbor's pasture which is about 3 miles away. I decided to take her to my pasture; when I kicked her out of the stock trailer, my heifer rode her briefly---so she was in heat for the first time.
Today, I got home from work and she was not here; she had last been seen here about 10 am. I located her 6-7 miles away at a neighbor's.

Is she too young to breed to a low birth-weight bull?

If she is too young to breed, is there anything I can do besides put a yoke on her to keep her in?

I can't have her getting out every time she comes in heat. If it matters, the heifer is a brown swiss

I've got lucky twice now with finding her back, but my luck can't hold forever.

73, Mark


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Might try hobbling her like a horse, might slow her down????


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Thorim said:


> Might try hobbling her like a horse, might slow her down????


A sassafras yoke will slow her down, too. Was hoping against hope that there was some common knowledge that I did not possess that would be an easy fix besides physically keeping her from getting out while she was in heat.

If the sassafras yoke don't do it, I'll attach a chain to the yoke; if the chain don't do it, I'll attach a tractor to the chain. 

The aggravating part is she is so well behaved when she is not in heat. She will follow me, can lead her, can mess with her udders (plan on milking her), comes when I call her, etc...

I was used to having problems in the house every 28 days (3 daughters), but now it's every 21 days 

It may be worth it to breed her to a Hereford bull that throws small calves just to break the cycle.

73, Mark

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You gave me $0.02. Here is what you get:

I was worried about early breeding with my first group of Highlanders. It did not happen. All of them, pastured with a bull, waited until they were ready.

At said, the breed is known for easy calving, late maturity, etc.

I do not know of your breed. But when she is ready, she is gonna get knocked up.

Highlanders wait. Your gal? If she is getting out, sounds like she is gonna be a mama soon.

You can take the girl out of the trailer park.....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

What does your fence consist of?

I had a problem one year with a couple of younger bulls we were keeping back for somebody that kept getting in with the cows.

Made a serious upgrade to fence chargers.

Went from a TSC model that was rated at 1 joule and might keep the fence charged in the 6000-7000 volt range to one that was rated at 24 joules and keeps the fence consistently above 14,000 volts, the problem ended soon as the new charger was plugged in.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

mlappin said:


> What does your fence consist of?
> 
> I had a problem one year with a couple of younger bulls we were keeping back for somebody that kept getting in with the cows.
> 
> ...


My fence is not electric. It's 39" high tensile woven wire set 6" off of the ground with 1 strand of barbed wire.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Electric Fence = problem solved


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

If she is 13 months now she should be around 14 when she comes back in which would make her two when she calves. Just breed her.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

There is a good chance she is bred now. Occasionally they are fertile the first time around.

I was at a meeting and the spokesman was an AI guru. He said breeding heifers at 12 months to a low birth rate bull was the way to go. He said to keep an eye on them when time to calf and all would be well. I nodded off about half way through his speech, not my cup of tea.

If you are afraid she is bred too young you can give her a shot and make her recycle, keep her and see how it turns out or sell her.

You could place her on Craigs List and price her double what she is worth and see how many calls you get.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You guys are going to laugh, but when I was a kid, my neighbor had a bad ass bull that liked to get out.

One day I looked in the pasture and there was the bull, being led around by a small donkey with a leash. I asked what the heck was going on.

He said if you tie a "stay home" donkey to the cow (steer, heifer, cattle, bull, bovine, whatever, etc.) it will lead the bigger beast around without any problem.

Funnier yet, it worked and it worked very well.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

If I am reading the chart right and your young lady is 13 months she's ready to be bred: http://www.brownswissusa.com/Breed/BrownSwissBreed/GrowthChart/tabid/84/Default.aspx


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I expose first calf heifers to bull at 14 months as most won't settle first time. Bigger question is what is her body weight and what is her expected full grown weight? Heifers should be 80% of their expected bw at breeding.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Well, I think I will chance it and let her get bred. The first time, she was near the bull but he was penned and she was not exposed. This time, the neighbor caught her and put her in his stock trailer before she was exposed.
I went to pick her up and he had grained her and gave her some hay. We stood around and spit on the ground for awhile and he offered to keep her and let his bull have a go at her. I left her there last night undecided.
I reckon I will have him expose her. I tried to pay him for catching and keeping her y'day; no dice. I asked what he would charge for bull's services; refused anything for feed/hay/time/bull. Just because he refused, doesn't mean he won't get paid - whether he likes it or not (or his kids will get sumn fer their piggy bank)
What's a fair price for bull's service....assuming not registered stock, etc..?
73, Mark


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

glasswrongsize said:


> Well, I think I will chance it and let her get bred. The first time, she was near the bull but he was penned and she was not exposed. This time, the neighbor caught her and put her in his stock trailer before she was exposed.
> I went to pick her up and he had grained her and gave her some hay. We stood around and spit on the ground for awhile and he offered to keep her and let his bull have a go at her. I left her there last night undecided.
> I reckon I will have him expose her. I tried to pay him for catching and keeping her y'day; no dice. I asked what he would charge for bull's services; refused anything for feed/hay/time/bull. Just because he refused, doesn't mean he won't get paid - whether he likes it or not (or his kids will get sumn fer their piggy bank)
> What's a fair price for bull's service....assuming not registered stock, etc..?
> 73, Mark


The biggest question is what breed is the bull?And if thats what you wanted it bred to.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

stack em up said:


> I expose first calf heifers to bull at 14 months as most won't settle first time. Bigger question is what is her body weight and what is her expected full grown weight? Heifers should be 80% of their expected bw at breeding.


Pardon my lack of knowledge, but by "settle" do you mean they don't take (get pregnant) or won't settle down and stand?
I would say she is 80 % of full size skeletally, but not weight. When I got her back last time and hauled her to my house, she either got pneumonia or shipping fever. Dosed her up and she was back on her feed good and was healthy, but had not regained her body condition to my satisfaction. The six mile trek thru the mud and brush didn't do her much good either.
73, Mark


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

swmnhay said:


> The biggest question is what breed is the bull?And if thats what you wanted it bred to.


The bull is a Hereford and I am fine with that. I wanted to cross her with a beef (vs milk) breed for a freezer beef for my personal butchering.
73, Mark


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Settle means to get and stay bred, pregnant. It can also be said that she "took" or didn't "take".
Regarding the fencing, electric is about the only thing that works well. We have sold a few fence crawlers. We have watched them crawl through a five strand barbed wire fence, with stays in it. They went to town and live somewhere else now.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Well I had a group of four heifers three Holstein and one jersey, I had been grazing them around the barn between the barn and the dairy cows pasture, you know keeping the place cleaned up. Use electric fence on part of that side of the pasture then four strands of barbed wire for the other half. Was all fine and dandy till the heifers started cycling. Caught the bull in with them figured it was time anyhow. Couldn't keep them separated after that.... ended up having four bred heifers.

By the way brown swiss are very stubborn combined with a lower IQ there isn't much to stop them when they set there mind to something

Had a old timer tell me if you have a heifer or cow that jumps barbed wire fence, put a foot and a half to two foot long length of link chain hanging from their neck

Amish construct a frame out of boards around their neck to keep them from crawling through the fence. I think to myself "gee this is real good if the right person goes by and sees those heifers with those board around their neck trying to eat grass"


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Speaking of jumping fences... I made a catch pen last year. Had used it a few times. Not perfect but works for me.

So I thought. I had the butcher scheduled to come and get my cow (time to cull her I decided). So I got her penned up the night before. Butcher came. We chit chatted. I told him easy as pie. I got her right in the pen for him.

Go to show him and the pen was empty. Gates closed. No cow. The wood fence was at least as tall as her... We found her in the shade with the rest of the herd.

Long story short, cows can jump like a gold medal athlete when no one is looking and they want to...


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Not the same cow, but similar size. Wooden fence shown was jumped.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Bgriffin856 said:


> By the way brown swiss are very stubborn combined with a lower IQ there isn't much to stop them when they set there mind to something
> 
> Had a old timer tell me if you have a heifer or cow that jumps barbed wire fence, put a foot and a half to two foot long length of link chain hanging from their neck
> 
> Amish construct a frame out of boards around their neck to keep them from crawling through the fence. I think to myself "gee this is real good if the right person goes by and sees those heifers with those board around their neck trying to eat grass"


I agree the brown swiss are not out in the pasture devising a well-thought-out plan or winning any spelling bees... They are not too smart, but here I am having trouble outsmarting one...so it's a little hard on my ego.
Using a yoke for fence jumpers/crawlers is pretty common practice in my experience. We use a forked sassafras sapling as it is light and stout and wears smooth with no splinters.
Yoke and chain are on the agenda if she does it again; she's still with the neighbor's bull right now as he isn't confident that she got bred. She should cycle again around this Saturday, so we'll see!
73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

Here is my take.

I had a 3 yo Hereford heifer and a yearling Beltie heifer together in my small pasture. The beltie would only bawl for about a day and be done with it. The Hereford was bigger and more adamant and wanted everyone to know about her monthly. It sounded like Jurassic Park in my little pasture. Aside from the noise, everything was manageable. Then my neighbor decided one day to turn his puny Jersey steer loose in his pasture. (He was the type to keep his animals locked in a stall only to turn them out once a year to clean house) Well needless to say my big girl just had to push through the fence to visit him. After the round up, separation, and fence mending, they did it again 12 hrs later. I got them separated a second time and put them in my front pasture. It had 6' tall chain link. That held them till I got a Gallagher fence charger. I ran a single strand, top of fence line, and looped it back about a foot off the ground. I opened the gate and it was s stampede to the fence-line. They made a dead stop when they saw the new wire. The Beltie did one sniff of it and it droppped her to her knees. The Hereford, not to be outdone, did the same thing, but she crawled on her knees to get away from the fence-line. That was the most fulfilling day I have ever experienced as a farmer. My wife and I laughed till we cried safe with the knowledge that we wont have to herd and separate pissed off heifers in heat out of another guys pasture.

My second beltie did not like my small pasture. I was standing at the fence line when she was released from the trailer. With a soft gait, she trotted up to me then effortlessly cleared my 5' fence without breaking stride. (electric dont work if she isnt grounded) When she did it the next morning, she was on the meat hook by dinner. It is my personal opinion once a cow learns to push/jump a fence, they will not stop. My dad told my the logging chain trick too, as the hook would catch the fence and keep them there. But, knowing my luck, she would have yanked 500' of fence down before she noticed she was hooked.

As for heifers riding each other, it may not always mean they are in heat. I took both Hereford and older Beltie to the AI to get them bred. Before we left we noticed a Charolais cow in his pen riding my Hereford. When I asked him about that he said that among cows/heifers, it is a sign of dominance and setting a pecking order. Kinda like a schoolyard bully. So what you saw might well have been a dominance thing and not a heat thing.

I fear that your fence jumper may only be tamed by the butcher. The pushers are easier to tame than jumpers. Electric cured my pushers, but I had to much to lose by trying different techniques on my jumper. I decided to end her high jumping, exploring, escapades. Getting your cow pregnant my only solve your problem temporarily. But then again, having a calf at her side may take a little wind out of her sail.

BTW I am using that same charger, from my old 3/4 acre lot to a 4 acre lot now with about 8k feet of fence line. I test it every other day by shorting it out at the end of the line. Nice bright blue spark every time. I will never try to keep cows without electric ever again.

Holy wall of text. I guess I got a little long winded...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

olschoolsteel said:


> Here is my take.
> 
> I had a 3 yo Hereford heifer and a yearling Beltie heifer together in my small pasture. The beltie would only bawl for about a day and be done with it. The Hereford was bigger and more adamant and wanted everyone to know about her monthly. It sounded like Jurassic Park in my little pasture. Aside from the noise, everything was manageable. Then my neighbor decided one day to turn his puny Jersey steer loose in his pasture. (He was the type to keep his animals locked in a stall only to turn them out once a year to clean house) Well needless to say my big girl just had to push through the fence to visit him. After the round up, separation, and fence mending, they did it again 12 hrs later. I got them separated a second time and put them in my front pasture. It had 6' tall chain link. That held them till I got a Gallagher fence charger. I ran a single strand, top of fence line, and looped it back about a foot off the ground. I opened the gate and it was s stampede to the fence-line. They made a dead stop when they saw the new wire. The Beltie did one sniff of it and it droppped her to her knees. The Hereford, not to be outdone, did the same thing, but she crawled on her knees to get away from the fence-line. That was the most fulfilling day I have ever experienced as a farmer. My wife and I laughed till we cried safe with the knowledge that we wont have to herd and separate pissed off heifers in heat out of another guys pasture.
> 
> ...


Lotta good info there...  OL J R


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Update.
When the heifer ran off, she ran to a neighbor (by proximity) and turned him into a neighbor in every sense of the word. He kept my heifer for 3 cycles (maybe 4 cycles as we both lost track of time) as he was in not hurry to get shed of her because "she ain't no trouble bein' here" and his kids like her- she is very gentle and can be handled/touched anywhere. Each time I would stop by, he would suggest leaving her another 21 days; he said that he never seen her get bred. He gave a small caveat that he had never seen any of his other cows get bred either and he had north of 20 calves on the ground. He drives a school bus and is not always around.

I brought her back home about 2 ½ weeks ago and she appeared happy and content be be back. Yesterday, I saw my other heifer ride her for a moment. I saw the heifer @ 10am this morning in the pasture; when I went into the barn this afternoon about 1pm, I seen my stay-at-home heifer, but not the heifer-on-the-lamb heifer. I called my neighbor: "if you see a brown swiss heifer with a red collar and a bell...". He got a good chuckle; me?...not so much.

About 4 pm he calls me and one of the other bus drivers seen her at a neighbors (about 4 miles from my farm and the opposite way of his). I was on the way to their farm, and their son (graduating 8th grade tonight) was headed towards my farm. The heifer with the red collar and bell is widely known around these parts and he knew she was mine. We stopped in the road for a spell for a moment; I was on the phone with the buyer, because she was NOT getting unloaded at my place again. The neighbor, not knowing I was just speaking with the buyer, offered "you wouldn't wanna trade her for calves, woodja?"
Well now, Lad, you're speaking my language!!!!

He is willing to trade 3 weanling calves for her as he wants her for a wet cow.

I know the ole "what's it worth" is one of the hardest questions to answer blind, but I have absolutely no idea.
First off, I am happy with 2 or 3 calves for her; so, that's not the issue. If I'm getting the worst end of the deal (within reason), I am ok with that. On the other hand, I don't want to shaft the youngun down the road. His calves are from a reg black angus bull and mix bred cows and (I'm wildly guessing here) the calves weigh @300 lbs- black calves. The heifer is a brown swiss/guernsey and is possibly bred to a hereford. He knows the stock the heifer is from-because he works for the dairy that she came from.

I don't want to take it in the shorts and if he was 20 years older, I wouldn't worry about him at all. I'm concerned for both of us that the deal smells fair.

Either way, I fixed her from getting out of my pasture!!! Next step would have been to try to see if she could get out of a vacuum sealer bag hidden in a freezer.

73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

If it were me and my cow, I would take that deal. He knows he would be getting a fence pusher so I am sure he is prepared to keep her in check, or else he wouldnt have proposed the deal right?

When mine went over the fence, I never lost sight of her, I cant imagine the stress you have with yours. I would rather deal with 3 bawling calves than a fence jumper.

But in the end, mine met Mr. Kill Truck operator and he was very happy to meet her


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto: I'd sure take three 300 pound calves for one fence jumper.heifer


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

I'd ask the lads father if he was okay with the deal and if so I'd git-r-done


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

What's your peace of mind worth????
I have a small dog that runs away 2 houses down that drives me nutz....
Can't imagine 1,000lb cow.
Take the three amigos and give away your headache...


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Oh, rest assured she is gone- one way or the other. I will either trade her for the calves, sell her to the market, or put her in the freezer. She's really not filled out enough to make a good beef, but...



Thorim said:


> I'd ask the lads father if he was okay with the deal and if so I'd git-r-done


Yup, talked to the lad's dad tonight.

It's a no-brainer for me to take the 3 calves, but sure don't wanna give the neighbor the shaft.

Maybe it's my growing ire for that bovine, but I'm not sure she is worth 3 beef calves. ...I'm not sure that she's not either.

She is a fence pusher to an extent; she stays in when she's around herd. I guess 1 other heifer is not enough of a group for her. It is nerve-racking when she gets out. RIght out my back door is 12000+ acres of river bottoms with nary a road or a house in it. When she goes gallavanting, I have to wait for her to show up at a neighbor's herd (and I never know which one). I've officially chased her down for the last time.

73, Mark


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