# Dodge 3500 gas



## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Does anyone have anything to say about the new ones. Got a neighbor kicking tires on one. Brand new. 2 horses is the most he will pull usually.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Has he driven a Ford lately? Sorry, couldn't stand it.....they sure do look good nowadays, far cry from what they used to be (I'm going back a few years...decades)


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

He currently drives a 2008 chevy crew cab dually,duramax,Allison automatic with less than 50,000 miles! I told him whatever he buys he will be sick!


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Talk about a down grade!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You need to tell himto drive the Ford with 6.7, he can buy you lunch later as payment (if he can still afford lunch lol)


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

bluefarmer said:


> He currently drives a 2008 chevy crew cab dually,duramax,Allison automatic with less than 50,000 miles! I told him whatever he buys he will be sick!


I would think power wise, he's downgrading. An '08 Dax/ally is a much better puller. Maybe he's tired of paying for diesel. 
He could pull 2 horses with an F-150 with the small gas motor.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Funny thing.... diesel is cheaper than gas, here.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah I noticed that when I was in Wyoming this summer.

Beautiful state.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah I noticed that when I was in Wyoming this summer.
> Beautiful state.


My phone didn't ring????


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Have to laugh at these guys with the big "cowboy Cadillacs"... See 'em all the time in the parking lot at Wally World and TSC... huge shiny new $70,000 diesel pickup, never have hauled or pulled anything... bout like my uncle... he's just GOTTA have a big diesel one ton, though he lives in the city and never leaves pavement except when he comes out to visit my mom and dad... can barely get around but climbs up in the stupid thing because they make them as high as a friggin semi anymore...

Not so funny when *I* have to pay for such stupidity... When the boll weevil eradication program was running full steam around here, first thing they did was buy a fleet of 40 some-odd Dodge Dakota 4WD's for the punk kids to run around in "checking boll weevil traps". Of course for remote fields with no road access, they had to buy a mess of four wheelers... and some single-axle trailers to haul them on (since you CANNOT haul a four wheeler in the back of a pickup??     ) Then, of course, you CANNOT pull a single axle 8 foot trailer with a Dodge Dakota 4WD, so they bought a bunch of NEW 1-TON DODGE DIESEL DUALLY's to pull the 8 foot single axle trailers with a four wheeler on it...    

Of course, who cares?? It's only the FARMER'S money!!! Why their stupid assessment was $20 per acre... heck that was only 20% of our entire input cost per acre for the SEASON...

Morons...

Later! OL J R


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

bluefarmer said:


> He currently drives a 2008 chevy crew cab dually,duramax,Allison automatic with less than 50,000 miles! I told him whatever he buys he will be sick!


If that's the case not only is it a huge downgrade, but he'll be kicking himself at the pump everytime. Gas may be cheaper, but when towing the diesel gets much more mpg's. I traded my 2003 Duramax 2500 in on a 6.2L 1500 with 400hp in 2011. They said it could tow just as well as my 2500, and it did; however, as soon as I hooked ANYTHING to it I got 8mpg. Never have seen below 12mpg towing my biggest trailers with the Duramax. I get 17mpg towing my 21' boat, and never downshift up grades (5% going through WV). I only owned a gasser for about a year and a half, and was glad to take the loss on it when I traded it in on a new Duramax.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

It seems a lot of people don't realize that fuel $ per gallon does NOT equal fuel $ per mile. And to get that you have to also figure in how much you use the truck for what. (Pulling or just driving around?)

I would LOVE the extra mileage & power of the diesel, but FOR ME $$$ didn't work. I can buy more than enough gasoline to do MY pulling with the difference in the engine $ upgrade. The highways I generally travel don't generally have that much grade, or for very long.

My Dodge 1500 has done me good so far with the little 4.7 V8 & auto trans.

Here's the photo of my heaviest load to date. Gross wt,, truck trailer & hay. (NO I do not intend to load it that heavy any more!!) I have hauled a few @ over 19k.

And I don't do it regular.

And yes, I realize we are all in different situations, YMMV.

OH YEA, also, the trucks now are not the same machines they were 10, 20, 30 years ago.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

urednecku said:


> It seems a lot of people don't realize that fuel $ per gallon does NOT equal fuel $ per mile. And to get that you have to also figure in how much you use the truck for what. (Pulling or just driving around?)


I get what you are saying, but a 3500 gasser just driving around will get ~9mpg and I'd estimate probably 5mpg while towing. Compare that to a 3500 diesel just driving around at 18mpg, and towing the heaviest loads around 10mpg. That's exponentially better, and will make up the cost difference quickly. It's more of a pay up front, or pay as you go. The cost difference between an HD Chevy with gasser or Duramax is ~$9k, but that also gives you an Allison transmission, exhaust brake, and 7600lbs more towing capacity, and a much longer service life.

There are benefits to both sides of the argument; however, having gone from gas to diesel, back to gas, and back to diesel... I'll never own another gas vehicle again.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

urednecku said:


> It seems a lot of people don't realize that fuel $ per gallon does NOT equal fuel $ per mile. And to get that you have to also figure in how much you use the truck for what. (Pulling or just driving around?)
> 
> I would LOVE the extra mileage & power of the diesel, but FOR ME $$$ didn't work. I can buy more than enough gasoline to do MY pulling with the difference in the engine $ upgrade. *The highways I generally travel don't generally have that much grade, or for very long.*
> 
> ...


Boy you NAILED it.

Flat ground lowers torque needs tremedously.

In FL, the only reason to own a diesel pickup is if you drive/tow a lot of miles.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Our gas 1 ton gets about 13-14 empty and towing it depends. Our 27 ft flatbed with 300 bales on gets about 8 mpg. Trailer empty is about 5000 lbs and its about 11 mpg.

We now also have a 2012 cummins with a tuned deleted 6.7, it gets 17-18 mpg empty, about 10-11 mpg towing the same load, about 14 mpg with the trailer empty.

The power is amazing on the new diesel but I'd never buy one if you're only towing 5000 miles a year.



Dan_GA said:


> I get what you are saying, but a 3500 gasser just driving around will get ~9mpg and I'd estimate probably 5mpg while towing. Compare that to a 3500 diesel just driving around at 18mpg, and towing the heaviest loads around 10mpg. That's exponentially better, and will make up the cost difference quickly. It's more of a pay up front, or pay as you go. The cost difference between an HD Chevy with gasser or Duramax is ~$9k, but that also gives you an Allison transmission, exhaust brake, and 7600lbs more towing capacity, and a much longer service life.
> 
> There are benefits to both sides of the argument; however, having gone from gas to diesel, back to gas, and back to diesel... I'll never own another gas vehicle again.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Our gas 1 ton gets about 13-14 empty and towing it depends. Our 27 ft flatbed with 300 bales on gets about 8 mpg. Trailer empty is about 5000 lbs and its about 11 mpg.
> 
> We now also have a 2012 cummins with a tuned deleted 6.7, it gets 17-18 mpg empty, about 10-11 mpg towing the same load, about 14 mpg with the trailer empty.
> 
> The power is amazing on the new diesel but I'd never buy one if you're only towing 5000 miles a year.


How high do you stack to get 300 bales on a 27' trailer?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

7 layers on flat, 48 bales the first 3, 45 bales the next 2, then 32, and so on.

Attached is smaller load from last night only 6 layers.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh very important detail - only 34" bales so we can stack 3 wide and keep around 102", sometimes closer to 108".


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

luke strawwalker said:


> Have to laugh at these guys with the big "cowboy Cadillacs"... See 'em all the time in the parking lot at Wally World and TSC... huge shiny new $70,000 diesel pickup, never have hauled or pulled anything... bout like my uncle... he's just GOTTA have a big diesel one ton, though he lives in the city and never leaves pavement except when he comes out to visit my mom and dad... can barely get around but climbs up in the stupid thing because they make them as high as a friggin semi anymore...
> 
> Not so funny when *I* have to pay for such stupidity... When the boll weevil eradication program was running full steam around here, first thing they did was buy a fleet of 40 some-odd Dodge Dakota 4WD's for the punk kids to run around in "checking boll weevil traps". Of course for remote fields with no road access, they had to buy a mess of four wheelers... and some single-axle trailers to haul them on (since you CANNOT haul a four wheeler in the back of a pickup??     ) Then, of course, you CANNOT pull a single axle 8 foot trailer with a Dodge Dakota 4WD, so they bought a bunch of NEW 1-TON DODGE DIESEL DUALLY's to pull the 8 foot single axle trailers with a four wheeler on it...
> 
> ...


IM NOT DEFENDING THIS, SO DONT SHOOT MESSENGER;

I think one of the reasons might be BUDGET:

Now before you say "Meh..." realize this: Beauracracies get a operating budget every year. If they dont meet or exceed that Operating budget, they may get their O.B. cut back. Backwards ass thinking? Yes it is, but thats the way government operates.

Quick illustration: I once walked into my truck/AG tire shop looking for tires. I described a set of tires I wanted. Store manager takes me to the "pre-owned" tires bin and BANG, there sat 6 of the nicest Goodyear 12R 22.5 municipal dumptruck tires you ever saw!!

They were 90% tread and 1/2 price. I said to him, "who would get rid of those"?

He said "local city fire company." He went on to tell me that their operating budget must be met or exceeded each year, or it would be curtailed. They didn't really need to spend a lot to meet their budget, so they put new tires on one of their fire trucks!!

Stupid but true....and this goes on in almost every govt beauracracy across the country.

And we wonder why our taxes are high and going higher!

So my point is, I 100% agree those are way overkill for towing single axle trailers. It was probably a budgetary "use it or lose it" decision.

Or it could be just plain taxpayer abuse!


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> IM NOT DEFENDING THIS, SO DONT SHOOT MESSENGER;
> 
> I think one of the reasons might be BUDGET:
> 
> ...


Yes, this is true, BUT...

This was *NOT* a "taxpayer organization"... this was a quasi-governmental "private organization" supposedly "serving the needs of the cotton growers and the cotton industry". Now how the h3ll in a "free country" your gubmint can *GIVE* an "independent private organization" the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to put a MANDATORY FEE (IOW, a TAX) on YOUR own crop that YOU pay for to grow on YOUR land, and if you don't pay it, ALSO give them the POWER to place a LIEN on your crop or your farm, and FORCE the buyers to comply with regulations that DO NOT ALLOW you as a farmer to sell YOUR OWN CROP UNLESS/UNTIL YOU provide the buyer with a "letter of permission" mailed out by this "independent private organization" giving you their blessing and showing said buyer that you have paid all assessments, fees, and penalties (if applicable) and are in good standing with said private organization, that I DO NOT understand, and WILL NOT ACCEPT.

IOW, YOUR crop DOES NOT belong to YOU, it belongs to THEM, UNTIL *THEY* say it belongs to you... I call bullsh!t... Sorry, I don't work that way. Uncle Abraham freed the slaves in 1862... I ain't gonna be a [email protected] serf on MY OWN FARM for some chickensh!t outfit like that... Why I quit cotton.

There was no "budget" they had to spend their money on like a lot of gubmint stuff and the 'use it or lose it' principle that comes to gubmint budgeting... this was all on the FARMER'S DIME... the SOB's running the Boll Weevil Foundation had a standing line of credit with Farm Credit in the MILLIONS, with the *guarantee* that the FARMERS would be stuck paying the $20 assessments on every acre of planted cotton until the loans were paid off... IOW, our gubmint was taking OUR rights and giving them to some private company, and then *guaranteeing* that they, as the enforcement arm of the gubmint, would LEGALLY OBLIGE the farmers to pay for ALL this "private organizations" spending and LOANS taken out for *whatever they wanted*...

Sorry, but you're talking about apples, and I'm describing some VERY ROTTEN ORANGES...

Why I told them "pay me $20 an acre outright, I'll grow the cotton and YOU CAN HAVE IT!" Nope, they don't want THAT... they want farmers stupid enough to "buy retail and sell wholesale and pay the freight both ways" while being nothing more than serfs on their own land. That's why I quit cotton. Supposedly the boll weevil is "functionally eradicated" around here but there's only about 1/3 as much cotton being grown around these parts as it used to be, either... most guys that were all cotton are now at least in a 50/50 rotation with corn or grain sorghum, and a lot of guys that were in 50/50 rotations are now growing maybe 25-33% cotton and the rest in a corn/sorghum or corn/soybeans three-way rotation with cotton. With cotton no longer a program crop, I expect virtually ALL cotton production in these parts to die out in the next 5-10 years... it's too expensive a crop to grow and the program payments was what sustained it... Just like when they cut the rice program and the rice farming cut back to the bone in these parts... Dryers and rice mills whining about "yall better plant rice, because once we go broke and there's no more dryers and mills to take the rice and hull it, yall won't be able to grow rice anymore..." Well, maybe so, but NO SENSE GROWING SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MAKE MONEY!

Why I have to laugh about all this "we gotta double food production in the next 20 years to keep the world from starving to death, because we'll have 10 billion people" or whatever... RUBBISH! All the good farmland around here is going into subdivisions, under strip malls, shopping centers, and houses. Just a handful of the big guys and little guys are hanging on, and the "hobby farmers" moving out from the city and buying 10-40 acres and putting a few longhorns or horses on it and claiming to be "farmers"... This is some of the most productive land in the world, but cost of production is killing off production here compared to areas that are 100% irrigated or have other cost/benefit advantages that we don't... Like Lubbock, pumping the Ogallala aquifer dry to grow 4 bale to the acre 60 cent cotton... It'll take a hundred years with NO pumping to restore it... that's a long time to go without water... LOL We can grow 2-2.5 bale cotton here with natural rainfall most years, but with a 2-2.5 bale breakeven... well, don't have to be a genius to do THAT math!

I just shake my head at a lot of this nonsense.... But it'll take a disaster to do it... Sorta like how all the dairies are suffering and going broke in the upper Midwest, yet these dairies in California and the FRIGGIN DESERTS are expanding like wildfire... They're doing it on cheap irrigation water for the time being-- lots of benefits to producing crops in dry climates compared to wetter areas (like cotton with us-- bugs are a lot worse in our wetter climate than at Lubbock, their soil holds fertility better because of less rainfall leaching, colder climate in winter means less denitrification, etc...) Sooner or later the "cheap water" will run out, and then it'll be profitable in the "natural" areas again... dairying in the upper Midwest, cotton along the Coastal Plains of the south, like it used to be... course the city slickers will be screaming bloody murder at $9 a gallon milk and stuff, but oh well... prices are always "artificial" anyway in a cheap production scenario... it's when the TRUE COST of production (and TRUE LEVELS of production versus "mega-production" through input-heavy production methods) make themselves known that true pricing establishes itself... and the simple fact is, we grow more than enough food for everybody on the planet NOW... it's not a problem of PRODUCTION, it's a problem of THEM NOT HAVING ANY [email protected] MONEY! I don't know about yall, but I'm not growing stuff to GIVE away... (though at times it SEEMS that way, or close enough!) LOL

Oh well... live and learn...

Later! OL J R


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, but don't you think the people in charge of spending other peoples money (OPM) don't like to waste it like drunken sailors?

That's exactly what our government does. It ain't their money, so spend it like there's no tomorrow!!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Pencil pusher sets budget. If you use less you can't carry it over and you get cut to that number the next year.

Almost every big company runs like this. To get money back you have to make pitches and presentations and generally kiss butt while if you just spend it, it will be there next year for you.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Also, don't forget, you do NOT OWN the land, or anything else for that matter. Don't believe me? Don't pay the property TAXE$ & see how long you get to stay there. Electricity? taxed. Phone? taxed. Did you buy that vehicle? Bet you paid the gobberment before you got the keys. You RENT the "right" to operate it....fuel, tag, license, tax on each replacement part, Gotta have tires? More taxe$, then have to pay again to have them "disposed of" ----

Gotta pay all those taxes to even go buy groceries, unless you walk. OH WAIT A MINUTE....... I had to pay taxes on my boots, britches, undies................

Or are we actually 'buying' all this stuff from the gubberment & actually paying the retailer only for delivery?

And that's AFTER you have already payed them part of the money YOU busted A$$ for.

Yea, it never stops. Never will


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

urednecku said:


> Also, don't forget, you do NOT OWN the land, or anything else for that matter. Don't believe me? Don't pay the property TAXE$ & see how long you get to stay there. Electricity? taxed. Phone? taxed. Did you buy that vehicle? Bet you paid the gobberment before you got the keys. You RENT the "right" to operate it....fuel, tag, license, tax on each replacement part, Gotta have tires? More taxe$, then have to pay again to have them "disposed of" ----
> 
> Gotta pay all those taxes to even go buy groceries, unless you walk. OH WAIT A MINUTE....... I had to pay taxes on my boots, britches, undies................
> 
> ...


Yep absolutely correct...

Grandma had about 7 acres on the other side of the river just outside Richmond, on old 90A (the old main highway from Houston to San Antonio before the interstates were built). Great Grandpa Bushnell used to have a "tourist courts" (motel, basically) there back in the 40's and 50's that Grandpa and Grandma ran for him for a few years after the War... The old courts are long gone, but she inherited about a 7 acre block of the roughly 28 acres he had there...

For years she had a Mexican truck gardener that was renting the place and growing vegetables on it... Enfante... He paid a dab in rent (basically enough to pay the taxes, maybe a little extra, dunno much about it that was before my time) and looked after the place and everybody was happy. Then Enfante got old and couldn't work anymore, let it go, and died. A friend of his, Felix, rented four spots for trailer houses on the place. Grandma rented it to him cheap-- too cheap... but that was her nature... having lived through the Depression, she never wanted to "chisel" anybody and wanted to help folks out as she could by "renting it cheap" or whatever...

Well, that was all well and good, until about the late 80's early 90's when the taxes went through the roof... for years, it had been ag-exempt, but when Enfante quit growing vegetables, that went away. The taxes weren't TOO bad for about an 8 year or so stretch, and then they went through the roof... what had been a few hundred dollars a year in property tax skyrocketed to over $5,500 a year in property taxes... and they kept going up year after year... Didn't take long and I told Grandma, "you've got to sell that... that dab of rent they're paying to park their trailer houses there doesn't come close to even paying the taxes... and basically, you're just RENTING that from the gubmint... Do you realize, that in 10 years, even if it DOESN'T go up, you'll have paid $55,000 dollars in friggin taxes!?" She finally realized I was right and sold it...

This whole county is getting too expensive to live in... and basically, they want it that way. They want to force all the farmers and poor folks (mostly Mexicans) living in trailer houses out of the county-- make room for lots of new subdivisions that they can tax through the nose...

Which do you think they'd rather have?? Farms making a pittance and getting farm tax exemption (reduced rates) or a new subdivision of 2-3 dozen new $350,000 brick homes that they can tax at a double rate?? Not hard to do that math!

Later! OL J R


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> Which do you think they'd rather have?? Farms making a pittance and getting farm tax exemption (reduced rates) or a new subdivision of 2-3 dozen new $350,000 brick homes that they can tax at a double rate?? Not hard to do that math!
> 
> Later! OL J R


This is exactly why we didn't build on my wife's family property in Ohio (thankfully because I hate Ohio--no offense to any Buckeyes in here but I'm a Southern man through and through). Current taxes on 24 acres are $1200. With the house the township quoted me at $7200 a year. When I questioned the lady at the office, she says "We have plans for a subdivision to go there." I said, "Really? You have plans to build a subdivision on our land? Good luck with that." It'll just never be built on and passed down through the family as vacant land.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

> It'll just never be built on and passed down through the family as vacant land.


I hope you'r right, and CAN do that. Problem is, the thieving gooberment can, has, and will TAKE what is "yours" ...."FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE" .

Damn sure ain't right, but they do it.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yep, I agree with urednecku...

More and more all this "eminent domain" crap just more closely resembles the old Soviet "centralized planning" under a different name...

We just don't live in the same country I was born in... I hardly recognize it anymore...

Later! OL J R


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## timberjackrob (Feb 16, 2015)

unless I was gonna tow heavy loads all the time I would never own another diesel went from 6.0 ford diesel to 6.2 ford gas and I love it no more 15qt oil changes and no more fuel filter changes and the milage difference was not all that different usually get 15 empty a little more on a long trip and about 9 towing 5th wheel and 10 towing loaded cattle trailer vs 16-17 empty with diesel and 10 towing,


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