# Lowest HP requirement 12' sickle conditioner?



## newstoryfarm (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi all, I've been getting advice from this forum for a while and finally joined. I am looking for some more advice. I am taking over the family farm (50 acres of hay and 50 acres of pasture) here in south central MN where I grew up cutting with my grandpas 400 Case diesel and the 1209 John deere and baling with the 24T. We started having the neighbour bale rounds about 10 years back when my dad got too old to help with small squares. We have a 12 wheel v rake and I bought a new holland 848 baler that I fixed up. I want to upgrade my windrower to something that is matched to the V rake and right now the 9' 1209 is not as you end up dumping the two outboard windrows on the center so it won't dry. I think a 12' windrower would not only cut time of cutting but match the rake well so I could combing two into one. So here is the kicker, I really want to be able to use the old Case diesel with the new haybine and it's only got 55hp so I don't know if it would handle a NH 499 with the losses in the hydraulic drive. Is there a 12' sickle conditioner that uses a pto drive? I don't want people to try to talk me into a discbine, our fields are too bumpy to go faster than a sickle mower can go anyway and I'd rather not spend more than $6000-8000 on a haybine. I could trade the V rake in for a 10 wheel and try to combine two windrows with my 9' but then I run over both windrows. I am not attached to anything other than my grandpa's tractor and it's such a sweet tractor I hate to get equipment that relegates it to the shed. I've got a 1971 deutz 8006 with 80hp and would like to be able to have the equipment interchange with both in case one or the other goes down. I think I've said enough...thanks folks!

daniel


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The hydraulic drive machines still run off of a pto pump. I'm guessing you'd be fighting your way through with the Case in heavy crops, but if your primary mower tractor would be the 8006 you should be fine. Or has been done by multiple haytalk members who were looking at small tractors and a desire to upgrade mowers, you could look at used self propelled, sickle machines.

And welcome to haytalk.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Welcome to Haytalk....

There are a number of evaluation reports on older mower conditioners on the web prepared by PAMI ( A co-operative program between thePrairie Agriculture Machinery Institute and the Alberta Farm Machinery Research Institute). NH 495 and 499 are two sickle mower conditioners evaluated, there are others.

The link to the index is:

*pami*.ca/resources/equipment-*report*-index/


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Does the Case have dual remotes?


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## newstoryfarm (Jun 15, 2015)

The Case only has one set of remotes but I could cheat and plumb into the lines for the 3 point lift if I had to. I could just use the Case for the 2nd and 3rd cutting when its not so thick.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

The thing with a sickle machine is that the thicker the hay is the slower you have to go. So therefore you use less power to pull the machine and more to run it. I used to run a new Holland 114 haybine with a 65 pto tractor. Ran the tractor at a fast idle and never ran short of power. Always ran shout of cutter capacity first.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

newstoryfarm said:


> The Case only has one set of remotes but I could cheat and plumb into the lines for the 3 point lift if I had to. I could just use the Case for the 2nd and 3rd cutting when its not so thick.


Sounds like a less than appealing "solution". Is there a reason you really don't want to use the Deutz? It's not an insult to grandpa to use an appropriate size tractor on a new mower. Better to rake, ted, bale (square) with the sentimental one and leave the heavier work to your bigger tractor. Wearing out grandpa's tractor won't get you anywhere in the long run.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Wouldn't be ideal. Especially in thick and heavy or hard cutting crops. We used the 1066 on ours and when you hit a thick or hard cutting spot you'd notice lug in the engine. I actually didn't even like using the 7405 on it compared to the 1066 cause the extra power kept the rpms up and would prevent alot of plugging


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Used to run a NH495 with a Oliver Super 88 diesel. Tractor Data doesn't give PTO horsepower but belt power was a touch under 56 hp. Never tried running my NH499 with an 88 or my 1600 though.


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

Hi Daniel,

I live in Arlington and the farm is just west of Watertown so I'm pretty close by. If you ever need a hand with anything let me know.

Would it make more sense to change rakes to fit the operation instead of getting a bigger cutter that doesn't fit very well?

Why would you run over both windrows combining two into 1 with a 10 wheel rake? Don't you just drive between the rows? I've never used a wheel rake so maybe I'm picturing this wrong.

We use a 9' haybine and a rollabar rake. I picked up a cheap 258 rake last fall and so now we run two rakes. It works really well for us as long as you have 2 tractors and 2 operators. Could even pick up a 2nd cheap 9' haybine to really speed things up! We bale with a 24T as well and have an 853 for rounds.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Hokelund Farm said:


> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I live in Arlington and the farm is just west of Watertown so I'm pretty close by. If you ever need a hand with anything let me know.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need one of those bridge hitches...

I run a 256 we bought new about ten years ago, and I picked up a home-built bridge hitch at the auction for like $150 bucks... nobody was bidding on it so I made a bid, someone else decided to get in on the action, but after a couple bids they were done so I got it. Looked at several rakes at auction til I found a 258 in pretty decent shape, though it did need some bar bearings so I just went on and replaced them all. Worst thing about it was the stupid rubber teeth would frequently turn loose and fall off, and after finding the cheap replacement rubber teeth at TSC would delaminate and fall off after a couple years, I've been replacing them with steel coil-spring teeth ever since-- no more problems there...

Basically, she rakes 17 feet at a lick with one tractor and one operator. Hydraulic cylinder swings the hitch axle and is adjustable on the fly for rake overlap in windy conditions... and folds both rakes inline to go down the road... just have to hop off and shift the ground drive rakes out of gear...

Works like a champ! OL JR


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Yup, get a bridge hitch and you'll save a lot of time. My brother, his father in law and our father are all running them. Even in what you guys would consider tiny odd shaped fields they save a lot of time.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

If speed isn't your issue, what about spending that money on a nice 4 basket tedder? Mow with your mower, ted, and rake with your rake. Better quality hay put up quicker (first cut anyway).


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## newstoryfarm (Jun 15, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> If speed isn't your issue, what about spending that money on a nice 4 basket tedder? Mow with your mower, ted, and rake with your rake. Better quality hay put up quicker (first cut anyway).


I've been thinking about this. I really don't like the V-rake we've got. If there were a tedder or rake I could combine 2 of the 9' swath windrows without driving right over both of them, I'd really consider that.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

10 wheel rake and a 4 basket tedder should match well.


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