# Hauling - delivery



## r82230

Being I am getting a new trailer, I have been asked already what my hauling rate(s) might be, so I pushed a pencil a little and here is what I am thinking so far (and thought I would get some 'experience' hauler's or purchaser's thoughts as well)..

For 2017 the IRS is allowing $0.535 per mile for business usage of autos (was $0.54 for 2016). Knowing I am not even going to come close to their estimated mileage, heading down hill with a tail wind maybe, but then again I would have to go up hill sometime. I tried searching HT for this info and didn't seem to have an success (I thought I remember a discussion from a few years ago on HT, when I was a lurker and this is where I am not as tech savvy as some). 


$100 plus $2.00 a loaded mile

or


$125 plus $2.50 a mile for loaded trip over 10 miles 

The time to load would be the same, is why I am thinking a beginning flat rate of some amount (I will not be unloading, customer would). Both of these options would have some sort of distance limits, I believe.

I am thinking of this ahead of time so I have some sort of consistency and not just a knee jerk reaction on pricing.

Plus any other thoughts / ideas will be appreciated.

Larry


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## Thorim

Is this just for one costumer once in a while or are you wanting to haul more hay?


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## r82230

Thorim said:


> Is this just for one costumer once in a while or are you wanting to haul more hay?


I am thinking customers, I just had one that called asking if I would deliver about 40 miles west of me (way too far to go with my present H&S trailer @ 25 MPH).

Larry


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## NewBerlinBaler

r82230 said:


> $100 plus $2.00 a loaded mile
> 
> or
> 
> 
> $125 plus $2.50 a mile for loaded trip over 10 miles


Should be the other way around. For a longer trip, the per-mile charge should be less. That's your "volume discount". Besides, even a short haul requires time/effort to arrange pickup & drop off times, locations, etc. You want to have a minimum charge so you don't lose money on a small job.


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## Lewis Ranch

$100 minimum on deliver and 3-3.50 a mile


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## Teslan

What are you hauling and how many of whatever that is can you haul?


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## Thorim

Problem when you start hauling anything for profit you start invoking State and Federal I.e. intrastate and interstate trucking rules and regulations and insurance issues and even though there are exemptions for farming it becomes a sticky wicket in a hurry. Not like it used to be to haul hay to customers. Rules say farmers can operate within a 150 mile radius of the home farm mainly hauling equipment from farm to farm and produce to markets. like I said a real mess in a hurry... this is kinda long and technical but may help.

All it takes is law enforcement officer whether it's a town cop or sheriffs deputy or state bull having a bad day to write a whole slew of tickets.... Like I said earlier its not like it used to be get pulled over get a warning know all they see are dollar signs.

http://www.glfwda.org/showthread.php?3585-Farm-laws-and-vehicle-uses


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## Lewis Ranch

I base my fees on a mileage rate but break it down by the bale for those purposes listed above.


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## slowzuki

My hay is priced by the bale as well. I don't want to get into why towing a wagon from the field has one price while if I put it on the gooseneck and use the truck to move it between the same points it has a different price.

If it gets bad I'll use my Massey with 25 mph to haul and avoid the truck but until then I'd rather not.



Lewis Ranch said:


> I base my fees on a mileage rate but break it down by the bale for those purposes listed above.


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## somedevildawg

Google "MAP 21".....moving ahead for progress in the 21st century.....one of the only things Obama signed into law that I agree with...... All states should be abiding by this law now.

Price by the mile but invoice by the bale......


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## mlappin

All depends here. I delivered four the other day 18 miles away, I normally never mess around with four, ain't worth it but I had to goto TSC anyways for some cattle panels. TSC was another four miles further so was driving right by their place anyways.

Long time customers I don't charge for delivery, but most customers that I let become long time aren't terribly far away, maybe 30 miles tops.

If somebody wants a load of my better hay and takes 11 bales at $80/bale I don't charge as long as they are within 35 miles.

If somebody wants the cheapest crap I have then I'm gonna recoup a little on the cheap hay by charging mileage as usually people come to pick their cheap crap up.

I figure 35 miles no charge, hay auction is roughly 27 miles away, need to drive another ten miles after that to start charging delivery, I'm no worse off making a private sale and delivering for free within 35 miles compared to sitting at the hay auction for a few hours and then often end up driving a touch less than 35 total miles to deliver.


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## SVFHAY

This advice was given to me years ago and I have made a living with it. Keep your fuel costs at 1/4 of gross or less and you will make money. Worked for me on intermediate length hauls, say 100 to 300 miles. If you spend entire day hauling one load 22 miles you may need a different formula.


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## Dan_GA

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/faq/how-can-map-21-%E2%80%9Ctransportation-agricultural-commodities%E2%80%9D-exemptions-be-summarized

Link to MAP21


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## IH 1586

I just allowed myself to do a little hauling this year just to try and pick up new customers. lindellhaysales.com has the rates if your interested.


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## Josh in WNY

Perfect timing for this topic as I'm getting a trailer as well. I was thinking of doing a per mile charge, but like the idea of a per bale charge better - both for the reasons mentioned above as well as the simplicity of quoting the customer a price.


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## r82230

Thanks folks, looks like I need to re-penciling a few things (good thing I ask this question BEFORE I headed down that road of charging a delivery fee).

My thoughts are now heading this direction:


$XX per bale where the bale presently sits (my place)

or


$XXx per bale sitting on my trailer (where the x is variable distance/quantity driven, on top of a flat fee for loading) 

I just might have to come up with a couple of prices for x (like x within 10-15 miles, 2x within 30-40 miles. I don't plan on hauling much farther than that).

As slowzuki mentions, I do have round baler hauler (wagon) that I can move 11-12 bales at a time,but at 25 MPH, you sure don't want to go very far (and with Michigan roads beating the crap out of a wagon).

I like the no delivery charge, the hay is just more expensive per bale however, once it is loaded on my equipment. It is a great point that it is my product until off-loaded (just like hauling grain to the elevator or cattle to market) how can I be commercial?

To think I just lurked around this site for years verses asking MY questions, shame on me.

I really appreciate the input so far (experience CAN be a good teacher).

Larry


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## SVFHAY

When we started hauling in 80's everything was done by the ton. Everything crossed a scale as they were plentiful in coal country. Hay was priced at the barn and we delivered local for $15/ton and price went up as radius expanded to maybe $60. No great surprise there was more money made on longer hauls.


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## 8350HiTech

r82230 said:


> Thanks folks, looks like I need to re-penciling a few things (good thing I ask this question BEFORE I headed down that road of charging a delivery fee).
> 
> My thoughts are now heading this direction:
> 
> 
> $XX per bale where the bale presently sits (my place)
> or
> $XXx per bale sitting on my trailer (where the x is variable distance/quantity driven, on top of a flat fee for loading)
> I just might have to come up with a couple of prices for x (like x within 10-15 miles, 2x within 30-40 miles. I don't plan on hauling much farther than that).
> 
> As slowzuki mentions, I do have round baler hauler (wagon) that I can move 11-12 bales at a time,but at 25 MPH, you sure don't want to go very far (and with Michigan roads beating the crap out of a wagon).
> 
> I like the no delivery charge, the hay is just more expensive per bale however, once it is loaded on my equipment. It is a great point that it is my product until off-loaded (just like hauling grain to the elevator or cattle to market) how can I be commercial?
> 
> To think I just lurked around this site for years verses asking MY questions, shame on me.
> 
> I really appreciate the input so far (experience CAN be a good teacher).
> 
> Larry


I still think this is somewhat overly complex. If the farthest you're considering is 40 miles, I think I'd have a barn price and a delivered price. (Per bale or ton, however you do it) Make it whatever you think you should be getting for a 25 mile delivery. They'll average out and you should come out a bit ahead with much less complexity. Set a minimum number of bales for delivery and stick to it.


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## Josh in WNY

Larry, by the sounds of it you are doing just round bales?


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## r82230

Josh in WNY said:


> Larry, by the sounds of it you are doing just round bales?


Presently yes, just round bales. Looking at going back to some square bales in the near future (demand is there, along with prices, just need to get equipment/storage up-dated).



8350HiTech said:


> I still think this is somewhat overly complex. If the farthest you're considering is 40 miles, I think I'd have a barn price and a delivered price. (Per bale or ton, however you do it) Make it whatever you think you should be getting for a 25 mile delivery. They'll average out and you should come out a bit ahead with much less complexity. Set a minimum number of bales for delivery and stick to it.


Thanks, that is me sometimes making something too complex, you're simpler system sounds A LOT better. Could end up with just two prices here and there (full load only naturally).

Larry


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## slowzuki

Somewhat why I have limited pricing.

I have a fixed cost of owning a truck and trailer, the cost to get it out of the barn onto the trailer, a cost to truck it and a cost to unload it at the end client. For my immediate area say up to 20 min drive, the fixed costs and the loading and unloading dominates my delivery cost.

IE the change in that cost based on how far I drive is pretty minimal within those distances. Now say its 60 min away, then yes I need to look at that.



8350HiTech said:


> I still think this is somewhat overly complex. If the farthest you're considering is 40 miles, I think I'd have a barn price and a delivered price. (Per bale or ton, however you do it) Make it whatever you think you should be getting for a 25 mile delivery. They'll average out and you should come out a bit ahead with much less complexity. Set a minimum number of bales for delivery and stick to it.


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## Josh in WNY

r82230 said:


> Presently yes, just round bales. Looking at going back to some square bales in the near future (demand is there, along with prices, just need to get equipment/storage up-dated).
> 
> Larry


I'm going to be selling small squares for this winter and spring, but next year it will probably be both rounds and squares. Next year I also plan on loading small squares with the bale grab, so I don't think my overall labor will be too much different between rounds and squares. Unfortunately, this year I have the squares in the loft and not in the lean-to addition, so I'll have to stack by hand.. although I can probably set up the stacks in the barn ahead of time and then load them on the trailer with the grab when I need to deliver a load.

I'm thinking the $0.50 a small square delivery charge would work. 60 bale minimum loads (4 grabs worth of bales from my stacker wagon). Rounds might be $5 a bale delivery, minimum 4(?) per load (need to see if I can get 3 or 4 bales long on my trailer). Not sure what I want to set my maximum delivery range to be just yet.


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## Lostin55

.....and people wonder how they lose money on shares..


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## slowzuki

Might I suggest you start at 1$ per bale as a starting point to even consider delivering hay, preferably from the field. Storing hay for people in your barn is not free. Buying grabs is not free. Stacking hay by hand to grab with a grab is not free.

All forms of delivery are worth more than 50 cents a bale to your customers.



Josh in WNY said:


> I'm going to be selling small squares for this winter and spring, but next year it will probably be both rounds and squares. Next year I also plan on loading small squares with the bale grab, so I don't think my overall labor will be too much different between rounds and squares. Unfortunately, this year I have the squares in the loft and not in the lean-to addition, so I'll have to stack by hand.. although I can probably set up the stacks in the barn ahead of time and then load them on the trailer with the grab when I need to deliver a load.
> 
> I'm thinking the $0.50 a small square delivery charge would work. 60 bale minimum loads (4 grabs worth of bales from my stacker wagon). Rounds might be $5 a bale delivery, minimum 4(?) per load (need to see if I can get 3 or 4 bales long on my trailer). Not sure what I want to set my maximum delivery range to be just yet.


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## 8350HiTech

slowzuki said:


> Might I suggest you start at 1$ per bale as a starting point to even consider delivering hay, preferably from the field. Storing hay for people in your barn is not free. Buying grabs is not free. Stacking hay by hand to grab with a grab is not free.
> 
> All forms of delivery are worth more than 50 cents a bale to your customers.


I'm assuming that the $.50 is on top of his price out of/at the barn so his storage costs should be independent of the delivery. Also, if he chooses to do busy work, that's not really something that one can charge the customer. They don't care if the hay was stored in a barn with difficult access. That said, I agree that $.50 still won't cut it for delivery in most cases. About the only time that's going to work is if you need it out of the barn and become willing to eat some cost in order to reap the benefit of having the barn empty.

Delivery charges are also going to be dependent on the competitive level in the market. If you're the only game in town, you can make a profit on the hay and the delivery. If the competition is tight, one might find themselves doing the delivery at cost in order to differentiate oneself from the competition. The key is to eat least know what "at cost" means.


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## luke strawwalker

Whoa... I'd rethink the "store hay on the place" routine...

Tried that and it was a ROYAL PITA... never again.

If you want "field prices" or "summer prices" when hay is plentiful and cheap, you TAKE IT NOW... buy it now, take it now, it's your baby. How/where you store it and handle it is YOUR problem.

If you don't want the hassle of hauling/storing and paying for it NOW, you pay "winter prices" and buy it when I have cash in hand and load it on your trailer or haul it to you (with appropriate delivery charges). Yes, it's more expensive in the winter, because that's when people need it and demand raises prices, with a fixed supply (whatever was baled in summer).

Them paying "up front" and you "storing it in your barn" is like having your cake and eating it too, for the buyer... they get the cheap "summer prices" and yet get the convenience and no risk by not having to move it, store it, etc. and whatever risk of loss along the way... then they get it when they need it (in winter usually) while you've sold it for cheaper "summer prices" and yet have had to move it, store it, and risk loss and STILL have to load it again at the least to get rid of it...

Of course the jerks will NEVER show up when you tell them to, and WILL show up at THE most inopportune times wanting their hay, usually just as you're about to pull out of the driveway to haul a load to your own cows or do work elsewhere on the farm, or go to your kid's thing or a family event... stuff like that. They'll leave "their" hay bought and paid for on your place, and then demand newer cut/better stuff when it's available instead of the older stuff that they paid for...

Nope, once being stupid enough to try that was enough. The guys that wanted to do it that way got it that way ONE year; after that I had ENOUGH-- told them from then on "nope, it's cash-n-carry, you bought it, you take it NOW (either you pick it up or I deliver it, but storage is YOUR problem". Never heard from them again, and honestly it was good riddance.

If you've got customers and a system that works for you doing this, great. I'd never do it again though and wouldn't recommend it to anybody else unless they KNEW for a fact that it would work out well with someone they implicitly trust.

Later! OL J R


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## RockmartGA

Josh in WNY said:


> I'm thinking the $0.50 a small square delivery charge would work.


If you plan on delivering small squares, one piece of advice that I have is to make sure that both you and the customer understand what "delivery" means.

Does delivery mean that you pull up with a load of hay, unstrap it, and the customer unloads? Does delivery mean that you will unload and stack in their barn?

Price accordingly.


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## Josh in WNY

That $0.50 per bale charge will be added to my per bale price at the barn and with a minimum of 60 bales a load, that's $30 so I think I'll be ok once I get things arranged the way I want them (loading with the bale grab only). One advantage that I have is my truck is a bi-fuel vehicle that runs on gasoline and Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) and once I get a compressor station hooked up to one of the gas wells, my fuel price will drop to almost zero. I already have all the other equipment needed (pole barn, bale grab, etc.) and it's all paid for other than maintenance, land taxes and other overhead.

As far as a 'summer' and a 'winter' price, I just have a 'before it's in the barn price' and a 'out of the barn' price. I go as far as having the hay stacked (by stacker wagon) against the front of the barn. Then it's just a matter of where the bale grab sets them off. I'd rather not have people running around my fields with their trucks and trailers&#8230; to much chance of getting ruts cut in by them, a glass bottle carelessly thrown on the ground to be shattered and mixed in with hay, etc. Plus, if it's already at the barn and they don't show up, I just move the hay inside and the price just jumped. Depending on the customer, I might hold some hay for them till winter with a non-refundable deposit, but it will be at the 'out of the barn' price and a guaranteed date of having it gone will be agreed upon.

For delivery, I will probably help pitch the bales off the trailer, but that's as far as I go (I don't mind a little exercise). I'm not hauling them into barns, up ladders or any of that crap. I would have loved to have gotten a tilt trailer so that I could have just slide the bales right off and driven away, but the price was a little much for that option. Also, the straps are not coming loose until I have the cash in my hand. For repeat customers that I've gotten to know, I'll probably take checks, but not at first.

Being the first year in over a decade since I've delivered hay locally, this is just testing the market to see what it's like. I know I can move round bales locally, I'm just not sure about the squares.


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## r82230

After a little more 'brain storming' (with defragging before, thanks to dawg's suggestion on another thread ).

I got to thinking, when I hauled cash crops to the elevator, I would say something like this: "I hauled 4 loads of corn in today" not "I haul 405 bushels, 390 bushels, 382 bushels and 412 bushels of corn in today"

So now here is my thought: I am going to sell a 'load of hay'. If they were small squares the price might be $1,200 for the load. If the customer takes all 200 bales or 150 bales that would be THEIR choice, the price is the same for the load. With round bales the example would be something like $800 a load, again whether it is 10 bales or 8 that is the customers choice. Unloading would be their responsibility (unless customer has some defragging juice ).

Larry


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## Josh in WNY

r82230 said:


> After a little more 'brain storming' (with defragging before, thanks to dawg's suggestion on another thread ).
> 
> I got to thinking, when I hauled cash crops to the elevator, I would say something like this: "I hauled 4 loads of corn in today" not "I haul 405 bushels, 390 bushels, 382 bushels and 412 bushels of corn in today"
> 
> So now here is my thought: I am going to sell a 'load of hay'. If they were small squares the price might be $1,200 for the load. If the customer takes all 200 bales or 150 bales that would be THEIR choice, the price is the same for the load. With round bales the example would be something like $800 a load, again whether it is 10 bales or 8 that is the customers choice. Unloading would be their responsibility (unless customer has some defragging juice ).
> 
> Larry


Another approach might be to say $X for a load or $Y per bale (above the at-barn price), whichever is larger. That gives you a minimum price for delivering, but also adjusts for the additional loading time, fuel, etc. associated with a larger load.

If the customer wants to pay me $30 just to deliver 5 small square bales, that's their choice. I'll toss them in the back of the truck and not even hook up the trailer.

However, that's starting to get back to the being a for hire delivery and the legal stuff that was mentioned earlier.


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