# Best practices for Bermuda seeding or sprigs and fertiliztion



## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Good morning farmer and ranchers,

I have 25 acres about 30 miles south of Sealy, black gumbo clay in an area Cotton and maize thrive. I have disc the pasture land, have weeds and native Bermuda coming up and I am looking for the following and in what order...

> Bermuda seeding or spriging?

> What's the best type of Bermuda seed? Best sprig?

> Should I spray for weeds first then seed or sprig? Or after seeding

> Should I fertilize with the seed or weeks after I see it coming up?

I'm leaning towards seeding, for don't anyone down here who would sprig the grass in???

Thank you for your suggestions!

Be safe,

Mark


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

For up to date answers, send an email to Dr. Larry Redmon, former State Extension Forage Specialist, now Soil and Crop Sciences Associate Department Head for Extension. Don't click on the link below, but use it in the To: of your email program.

[email protected]


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Couple of things mark.....is it going to be for grazing or haying? Most hybrid Bermudas, but not all, will propagate from tops clipped off of a field and immediately run coulter or disc over it.....Bermuda needs to be mature.....very effective if no spriggers are nearby.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Couple of things mark.....is it going to be for grazing or haying? Most hybrid Bermudas, but not all, will propagate from tops clipped off of a field and immediately run coulter or disc over it.....Bermuda needs to be mature.....very effective if no spriggers are nearby.


Good morning Dawg!

This is for pasture land. No sprig installers in the area I know of... The milling company near me is recommending Cheyenne II for seeding...

http://www.pennington.com/all-products/agriculture-wildlife/forage/cheyenne-ll

If I can find sprigs, what variety would you recommend?

Thanks,

Mark


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I planted 25 acres of Cheyenne 2 last year. I am impressed. We did not harvest it last year, just let it establish.

Can't wait to see how it produces this year.

Cheyenne 2 is the only seeded Bermuda I could find that was guaranteed not to revert to common bermuda.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Jiggs is the type sprigs that are used around me. Local custom sprigger buys his Jiggs at Waco.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Jim are the Jiggs spriggs dug or just cut. From what I have read Jiggs does real well just discing in the fresh cut Jiggs stolon's .


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

There's a guy down around Jones Creek (down near Freeport) that sells tops (fresh cut bermudagrass runners) from various different varieties he has growing in plots on the farm... When I planted my 20 acres behind the old man's house, I went down there and picked up a 16 foot trailer load for about $150 bucks... He basically cuts them with a disk mower, a single swath, and then scoops them up with a big fork on the front of his front end loader. Haul them back and scatter the tops on your field from the trailer, and disk them in immediately, preferably doing all this right before a rain...

Sprigging is VERY expensive, so planting from tops is much cheaper. Sprigging also isn't a guaranteed proposition (if it doesn't rain, oftentimes the sprigs die from lack of water before they establish a stand, meaning you have to pay to do it all again). Planting from tops is a little more "iffy", BUT, the cost is MUCH lower and therefore less costly if you have to redo it or part of it.

The biggest problem is handling the swath-cut bermuda tops, which tend to tangle badly... If you have someone with a bermuda patch and baler willing to cut tops for you (mow the bermuda and bale it IMMEDIATELY (very slowly) to make bales of the fresh green tops. They can be scattered directly off the back of the trailer as it's pulled through the field, and then immediately disked in, again, preferably right before a rain.

I planted Jiggs tops myself...

Later and good luck! OL J R


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Back in the late 1970's we planted 20 acres of Alicia Bermuda with tops. Alicia has long runners and we disked them in on prepared ground. We bought a sack full of sprigs, shipped on a train from Texas. Not a good way to get clippings. Since we had paid the royalty fees we were allowed to get some fresh from a farmer here in Alabama.

Later we became a distributor for Cecil Greer, the man from Texas who is credited with developing Alicia.

Back in those days I believe we made more money selling the clippings and hay than we did in row crops. Those were some tough times around here for farmers.

I believe there are 2 million seeds in a pound of hulled Cheyenne 2 bermuda seeds. I planted 10 lb. per acre, 20 million seeds per acre. Cost was a little less than $100 per acre for seed. About the same cost to have it sprigged if I could have found a sprigger person. No one around here has sprigged or used tops in 15 years.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> I planted 25 acres of Cheyenne 2 last year. I am impressed. We did not harvest it last year, just let it establish.
> Can't wait to see how it produces this year.
> Cheyenne 2 is the only seeded Bermuda I could find that was guaranteed not to revert to common bermuda.


Tim,

What was your panting technique? I have disc and harowed fields... After spreading I was going to harrow and then roll...

Is that what you did?

Thanks,

Mark


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Whatever you do mark, get it done if front of anticipated rain events......

Another technique for sprigging involves slinging the sprigs with a manure spreader and running coulter thru with a roller behind it. 
Another technique for tops is to bale it up in small bales and put the bales in a bale buster and spread them and immediately disc/roll....course that requires use of a bale buster but effective for larger areas. 
Another technique is to plant a 2-3 acre nursery to obtain your own sprigs or tops for planting next year....it's always a challenge to get a good pure stand immediately following a field with existing Bermuda. Sometimes the extra year of burn down can prove to be beneficial, maybe rotate something else in place of the larger section of Bermuda.....
One last ? What is the ph of this field?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

SilentH said:


> Tim,
> 
> What was your panting technique? I have disc and harowed fields... After spreading I was going to harrow and then roll...
> 
> ...


I have a thread with pictures on here from last spring. I will see if I can find it.

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/25969-finished-planting-bermuda/?hl=bermuda

Short version, I prepared the ground and applied P&K according to the soil test.

I then cultipacked the ground one time. Then I dropped the seed with a rented seed drill. I adjusted the disk openers to where they would not touch the ground. I used the seed drill because that is the only way I could figure to get consistent coverage. I set the small seed attachment for 10 lb. per acre.

Then I ran the cultipacker over it.

The extension agent really cautioned not to get the seeds more than 1/4 inch deep.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> I have a thread with pictures on here from last spring. I will see if I can find it.
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/25969-finished-planting-bermuda/?hl=bermuda
> Short version, I prepared the ground and applied P&K according to the soil test.
> I then cultipacked the ground one time. Then I dropped the seed with a rented seed drill. I adjusted the disk openers to where they would not touch the ground. I used the seed drill because that is the only way I could figure to get consistent coverage. I set the small seed attachment for 10 lb. per acre.
> ...


Tim, thanks for the advice and links. So, sounds like I needed do a soil test yesterday!


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

http://www.tifton.uga.edu/fat/formanag.htm

This is a guide for planting Tifton 85, it is exactly the same if you plant Jiggs. For grazing I would plant T85, if planning to bale Jiggs is a little easier to get dry without conditioning. Not much experience with the seeded varieties, but all the tests show significant decrease in yield compared to Jiggs or Tifton.

I guarantee there are multiple custom spriggers that service your area. Call your extension agent or local feed store. Should be > $100/ acre.

Adjust Ph, and fertilize according to soil test. If lime is needed best to disc it in before planting.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Whatever you do mark, get it done if front of anticipated rain events......
> Another technique for sprigging involves slinging the sprigs with a manure spreader and running coulter thru with a roller behind it.
> Another technique for tops is to bale it up in small bales and put the bales in a bale buster and spread them and immediately disc/roll....course that requires use of a bale buster but effective for larger areas.
> Another technique is to plant a 2-3 acre nursery to obtain your own sprigs or tops for planting next year....it's always a challenge to get a good pure stand immediately following a field with existing Bermuda. Sometimes the extra year of burn down can prove to be beneficial, maybe rotate something else in place of the larger section of Bermuda.....
> One last ? What is the ph of this field?


Look is like I need a soil testing first. If I find out it's not in range, I'm assuming I add the corrective fertilizer or lime to get it there, and then how long before I can seed? In addition should I go ahead and spray chaparral for weed control before seeding as well?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rajela said:


> Jim are the Jiggs spriggs dug or just cut. From what I have read Jiggs does real well just discing in the fresh cut Jiggs stolon's .


Local spigger plants dug sprigs.


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

If you spray before planting just use glyphosate (round up). No need to spray costly selective herbicides before you plant.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I would not spray before planting. When we open the ground we also open the seed bank that has been dormant for years. Weeds are going to come up. Some you will scratch your head and wonder what they are and where they came from.

Once the grass is healthy, clip the tops and get rid of the weeds. When the grass is even stronger, spray.

I was warned by the Extension agent that weeds would germinate. I am glad he prepared me for that.

Cheyenne 2 has a yield as good and better than some non seeded varieties. It is the only seeded variety that does not revert back to common.

I did not apply nitrogen when I planted. I did not want to feed the weeds waiting to sprout. I did use DAP in the fertilizer blend for the P&K and that contained some nitrogen.

Our plan was to get the PH and nutrition favorable for the desired grass. It worked well for us.

I can not wait for green up. Licking my chops to get fertilizer on the new grass and see how she does.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> I would not spray before planting. When we open the ground we also open the seed bank that has been dormant for years. Weeds are going to come up. Some you will scratch your head and wonder what they are and where they came from.
> Once the grass is healthy, clip the tops and get rid of the weeds. When the grass is even stronger, spray.
> I was warned by the Extension agent that weeds would germinate. I am glad he prepared me for that.
> Cheyenne 2 has a yield as good and better than some non seeded varieties. It is the only seeded variety that does not revert back to common.
> ...


What's DAP and P&K?


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

SilentH said:


> What's DAP and P&K?


NP&K are the three most common fertilizers and are usuall listed in units per in a string of numbers seperated by hyphens, and in order of N-P-K

N- Nitrogen

P- Phosphorous

K- Potassium

DAP (Diammonium phosphate) is 18-46-0--- so 18 units of Nitrogen, 46 units of Phosphorous and zero units of potassuim

In 100 lbs of fertilizer, there would be 18 pounds of nitrogen and 46 pounds of phorphorous.

K (potassium) is "potash" and here is 0-0-60... Zero of nitrogen and phosphorous and 60 pounds per hundred of potassium.

I am confident that the above is not entirely correct as I have JUST become interested in fertilizer/soil samples, etc.... I waited a couple of hours before giving this answer in hopes that someone more knowledgeable may answer your question first...

That is how my head is wrapped around it anyhow.

This is a link to the UofI info published. The regional recommendations will be way off, but it will give some understanding.

http://extension.cropsciences.illinois.edu/handbook/pdfs/chapter08.pdf

73, Mark


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> NP&K are the three most common fertilizers and are usuall listed in units per in a string of numbers seperated by hyphens, and in order of N-P-K
> N- Nitrogen
> P- Phosphorous
> K- Potassium
> ...


Outstanding! Great information! Thank you!!!
I have a lot to learn!


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

After reading some of your posts, I believe you may not know what you are getting into. No offense! 
I hear people say how it's expensive to sprigg a field, but in reality it's cheap. Let's say $100/ ac
It's expensive to fertilize that field. $3-400/ac per year, add in lime and specialty herbicides to get it established and that sprigging cost is forgotten. And don't forget about the armyworms that will show up sometime in June!
I have seen people pay to plant and not fertilize properly, in a year or 2 it will be hard to find a trace of what you paid to plant in the first place.
A quality Bermuda field requires pretty intense management or it will go back to the native grasses/ weeds which may not be that bad if you're just grazing it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good advice to ponder from all Silent.....all very correct info for your digestion  
Whichever way you go, get that ph up now whilst discing and preparing seedbed......much better to incorporate lime into the soil now vs topdressing from now on.....gets you bit of a head start to the deeper depths of the soil where aluminum toxicity is more likely to hinder root growth. Btw more hybrids will work well at 6.0 some do ok just a bit lower. Here we have sandy soil and ph is always a struggle.....comes back to that last comment about well managed fields, it gets pricey for sure......

Good luck, either way, with proper care it's hard to beat Bermuda when that big ball of fire is burning hot....


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

If I were you and wanted to establish a feild for grazing.. I would do native grass. Cattle do much better on a native grass feild than coastal.


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

Silent,

I live north of you outside of Burton on black dirt. Two years ago I was asking the same questions as I was staring at 20 acres of pasture I'd just bought that were in terrible shape. Here's my two cents:


I had my acreage plowed to approx. 12" deep with an offset plow pulled by a tractor with enough horsepower for the job. He really got deep and insured that there wasn't a compaction zone close to the surface. 
I then pulled my 3pt disk/harrow combination over the field enough times to break the ground to a fine, even texture.
I applied fertilizer per my soil samples after I finished plowing.
I had my place sprigged by a 3rd party roughly 3 days after I fertilized with dry fertilizer. For reference, sprigs are available in Giddings, TX which is not too far from you.
If you choose to plant sprigs you want to get them going now. The Jiggs is just starting wake up from the winter so planting dormant sprigs will allow them to 'wake up' in your pasture.
If you do it yourself, distribute the sprigs as best you can then lightly disk them under. I've planted tops using a manure spreader and believe that device would work well with sprigs. It is ideal if you can roll the ground after you plant/disk so that you get good sprig/soil contact.
Wait a couple of weeks and then you can spray for weeds. If you catch the weeds early you should consider using the minimum amount of herbicide needed to minimize any chance of negative impact on the sprigs. After going through this myself I think there is little chance of burning the sprigs pre-emerge if you follow the label directions for the herbicide. Something like 2,4D with no residual will hammer the weeds that have come up but may require another pass of herbicide later. A residual like Grazon Next HL will get the immediate kill you need while leaving you a residual to get the next round of weeds that are going to come to visit. Talk with your County Extension Agent and / or your local feed store's herbicide applicator to confirm that what I've described in terms of herbicides is sound logic. 


If you go down the tops route you'll have to wait until the grass comes out of dormancy and you can get a cut. Once you broadcast the tops, disk/roll as with the sprigs. I'd suggest going this route right before a rain event as the tops are going to be looking for moisture to use to establish themselves. If you plant tops and get no moisture then you'll likely be disappointed in the results. 

I'll offer that I failed to plant my sprigs at the right time. I was wet during the entire plowing operation and almost got the guy pulling the offset disk stuck on a number of occasions. I got run out of the field with my equipment more times than I want to admit. Then, naturally, as soon as I sprigged the rain stopped for about 6 weeks. Then next rain event was 12" of rain in one night. The plowing stirred the seed bank and then the rain opened the door for every weed on the planet to pay me a visit. I got gun shy and failed to hit the field with herbicide in time. The dry conditions, the flood, and then the weeds set my pastures back that first year. The rain last year helped a lot. It's taken me a couple of years but I think the last run of herbicide I applied in February might have solved most of that problem.

On the surface this entire process sounds complicated and doomed to failure for mere mortals like the majority of us on this forum. My opinion is that it really is relatively easy if you just step through it and pay attention to what you are doing. On the cost front I don't perceive that this is that expensive a process if you do a lot of this yourself. The comment above in regards to sprigging cost vs fertilizer is accurate. I spend many times more on fertilizer as compared to what I paid to sprig.

Good Luck!


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

506 said:


> Silent,
> 
> I live north of you outside of Burton on black dirt. Two years ago I was asking the same questions as I was staring at 20 acres of pasture I'd just bought that were in terrible shape. Here's my two cents:
> 
> ...


Great information! Do you have the number of the place in Giddings?

My process is exactly what you did, disc and then harrowed until smooth! Now I have dirt with a bit of native starting to come up.

Grazon Next HL is awesome stuff and I use it every mid March, however the rains messed me up, for I am in a 2, 4-D restricted county, because of the cotton farming. I absolutely do one thing correct out here! I always call my cotton farmer and ask if he has the cotton seed planted. This year it's already up, therefore I will hit the fields with Chaparral in April. Even when I am about to spray anything involving a boom sprayer, I always call to inform him of what I am spraying, where he will always give me a "thank you and go for it!' I doubt we will ever have any legal problems because of a simple phone call.

Great beautiful area up there in Burton! I've been using Washington County Tractor in Sealy and I am very impressed with there pricing and honesty, especially the service guy there Brad. He saved me two grand on a stuck clutch, where instead of breaking my old Ford 3600 in half, they found the outside adjustment was off, so a little less than $200 vs 2 grand!!!

Thanks,

Mark


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

Mark, The Sprig Man of Giddings (that's how he advertises) is Wilbert Birnbaum. His 'real job' is at this website: www.wilbertstire. He cuts/sells sprigs somewhere in the Lee County area. He took care of everything except the 3pt plowing for me. He may know someone down your way that can sprig for you and might offer to handle everything for you as well. He had a list of folks for Washington County. Now that I think about it, Washington County's ag extension agent maintains a list of residents who provide various services. This list includes sprigging. If you haven't run this by your agent, you might consider giving that person a call and asking.

Come back at me if you can't find Wilbert at the store. I've got contacts in Giddings that know him and his family so I can run down a cell number if I have to.

Darren


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I can get his number too. You'll get good sprigs from him. He's the man I would use


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

506 said:


> Mark, The Sprig Man of Giddings (that's how he advertises) is Wilbert Birnbaum. His 'real job' is at this website: www.wilbertstire. He cuts/sells sprigs somewhere in the Lee County area. He took care of everything except the 3pt plowing for me. He may know someone down your way that can sprig for you and might offer to handle everything for you as well. He had a list of folks for Washington County. Now that I think about it, Washington County's ag extension agent maintains a list of residents who provide various services. This list includes sprigging. If you haven't run this by your agent, you might consider giving that person a call and asking.
> 
> Come back at me if you can't find Wilbert at the store. I've got contacts in Giddings that know him and his family so I can run down a cell number if I have to.
> 
> Darren


Just talked to him!!!! Very nice guy!!! He's sales the jiggs to a guy he's referring me to out of Bleiberville.

Darren and Colby thanks!!!

Mark


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Well you might of found a good source of sprigs but if you didn't I can help you I sell different varietys of bermuda grass and do recommend the sprigs over tops or seeded varietys you can check us out at www.rosshayandsprigsfarm.com


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Update,

I'm needing someone who plants sprigs in my Area where I'm 6 miles southeast of Wallis or in between Wallis, East Bernard, and Orchard...

Thanks,

Mark


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey Mark - here's one: www.stephendnaiser.com. His website claims to manage donor fields from Victoria to Lake Charles. You're right in the middle of his window.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Update,

I talked with Wilbert, and nice guy, took many calls to get the sprig installer to call me. It amazes me how someone would be so uninterested in a job because I'm and hour away? This goes for electricians in my area as well!

Anyway, decided to hit my fields with Chapparel and regroup and get ready for next year.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Update,
> 
> I talked with Wilbert, and nice guy, took many calls to get the sprig installer to call me. It amazes me how someone would be so uninterested in a job because I'm and hour away? This goes for electricians in my area as well!
> 
> Anyway, decided to hit my fields with Chapparel and regroup and get ready for next year.


Yeah, I hear ya.

I know custom farming operations are big business in some places but it seems like in our part of the country, "if you want it done right, do it yourself!" At least that's been MY experience!

I see custom guys ALL the time who's idea of "making hay" is doing whatever for a couple week after you call them, then FINALLY running out and cutting the hay about the time you get someone else lined up for the job, letting it lay there and sunburn for a week, then running a rake right ahead of the baler and calling it "hay". More like bleached sticks. Wouldn't give you plug nickel for it.

Years ago at one of Mark Switzer's auctions up in Sealy I saw a nice two-row Bermuda King sprig planter. Looked like it'd lived in the back end of some old timer's barn for the last 10 years, judging by the layer of dust and cobwebs on it, but it was all there and functional-- I checked it out. Of course knowing what one runs new, I figured someone would snap that puppy up for BIG money. All it really needed was a good pressure washing, a good grease job, and a paint job. It was basically field ready. Imagine my shock when it went for like $1800 bucks! I didn't even have time to bid-- couple guys bid on it about 3-4 times and BAM it was sold!

If I had thought about it a little faster, I woulda bought the thing myself. I could afford it for that kind of money. I could have planted my own place, did some custom work on the side, given it a good paint job and a little TLC, and turned around and sold it and more than got my money back on it!

Oh well...

You might want to look around and see if you can find an older sprigger yourself. Or, just plant the sprigs yourself if you wanted. Not like you're doing a couple hundred acres by the looks of it. Disk the ground up good and loose, get your sprigs and spread them and IMMEDIATELY disk them in, preferably twice with one pass on the bias (at an angle). Then run a roller over the field and pack it down TIGHT, preferably right before a good heavy rain (like the one they're forecasting).

Most of those sprig guys are more than happy to sell you the sprigs, but they're kind of "meh" when it comes to actually going anywhere and planting them. At least that's how it seemed when I was sprigging some Jiggs on our place. You'd think with what they charge they'd be willing to go flippin' out of state, but yeah, if it's an hour away they demur.

Best of luck! OL J R


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Yeah, I hear ya.
> 
> I know custom farming operations are big business in some places but it seems like in our part of the country, "if you want it done right, do it yourself!" At least that's been MY experience!
> 
> ...


Yes, I was at Mark's auction and a buddy was set to bid on a nice bush hog shredder, and before he could bid it was sold. Are you going on the 23rd? I was planing on going however a high school friend lost his dad, so the Memorial service is that day at 11 am. I may get out there around 3...

The guy supplying the sprigs was nice, however the planter was complaining about the distance and acreage. Oh, well... Gives me time to get my ph correct...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Yes, I was at Mark's auction and a buddy was set to bid on a nice bush hog shredder, and before he could bid it was sold. Are you going on the 23rd? I was planing on going however a high school friend lost his dad, so the Memorial service is that day at 11 am. I may get out there around 3...
> 
> The guy supplying the sprigs was nice, however the planter was complaining about the distance and acreage. Oh, well... Gives me time to get my ph correct...


Nah, I haven't been to one of Switzer's auctions since he moved out to the new grounds from the old livestock auction. I've been by there a few times and nothing much out there worth looking at, at least nothing I needed in the condition I might be looking for. Maybe the "good stuff" just arrives on sale day, I dunno. I know a lot of stuff does.

Later! OL J R


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey Mark - You might want to go on the 23rd. There's a 4 row sprig machine in the auction. It looks like it needs TLC but so does a lot of equipment I see going through Switzer's auction. Who knows, ol JR might get there first and be your new best friend next year come sprigging time.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

506 said:


> Hey Mark - You might want to go on the 23rd. There's a 4 row sprig machine in the auction. It looks like it needs TLC but so does a lot of equipment I see going through Switzer's auction. Who knows, ol JR might get there first and be your new best friend next year come sprigging time.


Shoot yea! I'll buy and start my own business specializing in small farms! Them go get my masters electrician license as well specializing in small towns! I'll be a folk hero! Lol! Thanks, I'll check it out!


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