# Unions



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I think this help clarifies the continual escalation of new vehicle prices....between impaired workers, unions(also impaired), and incompetent arbitrators, it obvious why the prices of new vehicles are so outrageous.

Regards, Mike

http://autos.aol.com...nk3&pLid=244089


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes that would be the only reason .


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

But in other good news the State of Michigan just passed Right to Work legislation. Although wildly unpopular with the auto & teachers unions it may help with auto prices. The story I read last night said that some schools were closed because too many teachers were protesting at the capital. The unions even brought out 4 of their inflatable rats for the occation.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

I would bet money,the Big three just can't wait to pass on what ever savings they get from this to you all . They would never dream of putting more in their pockets .

As the band Aerosmith would say	" Dream On , Dream On , Dream On , Dream until your dreams come true "​
​


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Chessiedog said:


> Yes that would be the only reason .


Nope, not the only reason, but a significant factor in costs of production.

Regards, Mike


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Just got this from some of my retired enineering co-workers. Can't imagine what the unions would think if the Big 3 wanted plants like this in this country,

How the Germans build modern cars:


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FCF said:


> Just got this from some of my retired enineering co-workers. Can't imagine what the unions would think if the Big 3 wanted plants like this in this country,
> 
> How the Germans build modern cars:
> 
> http://www.youtube.c...5WGLWNllA?rel=0


That's pretty cool. I wonder how they build the much cheaper VW cars. The Phaeton is very very expensive.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Vol said:


> Nope, not the only reason, but a significant factor in costs of production.
> 
> Regards, Mike


10 percent ?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Chessiedog said:


> I would bet money,the Big three just can't wait to pass on what ever savings they get from this to you all . They would never dream of putting more in their pockets .
> 
> As the band Aerosmith would say	" Dream On , Dream On , Dream On , Dream until your dreams come true "​


They sure as heck are leaving union states for right to work states fast, aren't they???!!!
I see car plants popping up all over in the south in RTW states. Up here the 2 plants in Wilmington, DE are closed forever!!
Unions have destroyed the fabric of American industry. They exist only to collect funds for the democratic party and offer their members nothing but protection for the lowest performing members.
My wife's in a union (involuntarily) and constantly tells me that they can't get rid of the deadwood where she works and much of the deadwood makes 100+ K/ yr!!


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> They sure as heck are leaving union states for right to work states fast, aren't they???!!!
> I see car plants popping up all over in the south in RTW states. Up here the 2 plants in Wilmington, DE are closed forever!!
> Unions have destroyed the fabric of American industry. They exist only to collect funds for the democratic party and offer their members nothing but protection for the lowest performing members.
> My wife's in a union (involuntarily) and constantly tells me that they can't get rid of the deadwood where she works and much of the deadwood makes 100+ K/ yr!!


As much as I dislike unions, It's sad to see everyone turning against them because of what they have become....bloated bureaucracies that benefit only their leadership and their most incompetent members. The rest of their members are decent, hard working people who do not need unions to keep or find jobs but are forced to join and pay dues because of laws passed by "bought" politicians.

In the past, the union apprentice programs were the absolute best place to learn a trade and when you hired a journeyman you knew you were getting someone who had the skills you were looking for. Apprentices were matched with journeymen who supervised their work and they were supervised by a foreman who had come up through the ranks. You didn't become a foreman unless you could take the place of anyone below you. The unions sold quality work.

That got lost when the leadership started feathering their nests and quit caring about providing quality. Nest feathering puts a burden on an organization so you need to add revenues and the only way to do that is to increase the number of members paying dues. Restrictive work rules add lots of members and union agreements lock the employer and hold the business hostage. State and national legislation promoting unions lock everyone else out and there's no more competition.

Unfortunately most union leadership positions are elected and to continue enjoying that feathered nest, the leadership needed to guarantee their re-election.....bring in the friends and relatives. Restrict the entry of apprentices to friends and family, promote the most pliable to the foreman positions, and anyone who really cares about quality heads for the door and gets a job in a Right-To-Work State.

They have destroyed more than just the "fabric of American industry" they have destroyed the pride and work ethic of doing a good job, learning a skill/trade, and working with one's hands. The sooner they are gone the better off we will be, but I don't know if we will ever get back all that we have lost......


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I still don't care for unions. Dad was a Sheetmetal union guy for years, they managed to screw him out of his first 10 years in as he stopped to farm for awhile, even though he was still paying his dues. Then they couldn't get him enough work the last six years he was in so he could get enough time to get his full pension. But they kept on taking in apprentices even though they didn't have enough work to go around.

My cousin got screwed by the same union, has been laid off so long he ran out of un-employment, ran out of health insurance, lost his house, lost his fiance and tried to commit suicide last month, BUT the whole time the union is still taking in new apprentices. Why? Much cheaper to let an apprentice do a job that a journeyman really should be doing.

Screw the unions.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

In agreement with Mike120 on the dislike of unions and agree that they *HAD* a useful place. Learned my trade in a non-union shop and saw the union try to get in three times, never got enough interest to get to a vote of the workers. The company I worked for had a highly respected apprenticeship and at one time was considered the best way to advance within the company. However the retension rate for graduate apprentices was less than 50% because others shops started offering higher wages and didn't have apprenticeships. After several years of poor retension the company discontinued the apprenticeship.

While understanding that companies and employees need to make a profit/living how much of this is driven by greed? My supervisor after the graduating often said that after making enough for a comfortable living anything more was wasted. Didn't cost the CEO multiple times to live compared to a shift or plant manger.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The unions aren't the same thing they used to be. I believe their job of workplace fairness and safe treatment of employees has been accomplished. Now it's time to move on from them because they are frought with corruption and their focus is on getting democrats elected.
I watched my wife's union negotiator & leader get her ass handed to her trying to negotiate with the local schoolboard. She charged them a fortune for her services and accomplished nothing.
I wish teachers were on merit pay. my wife would be making $125,000 easily if they were. She is a decorated and recognized teacher and coach.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)




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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Very interesting Moose....unreal what 57 people can accomplish when work is the goal. Thanks for video!

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I happened across it yesterday and thought the same thing.


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