# airbaler vs hydraulic tensioner??



## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I currently have a hydraulic tensioner.... is it worth replacing it for a airbaler? my baler is a MF 1837. Will have bale skiis in it this year as well already ordered them.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Made my own air baler, as fashioned after T and R Hay Farms. There was a post on it a few months ago. Take the time and remove that hydraulic tension. You'll be glad you did. I put it in my 1839, and love it so much I kiss it goodnight. (Just don't tell "the boss") It should seriously be factory installed on ALL balers, and be retroactive back to the hay press.

In fact, I am putting a " stack em up special" air tension on my NH 68 hay liner as well. 2 air bags and electric compressor from a White planter down pressure system.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

I'm a bit confused, how is the airbaler setup any better than hydraulics (other than reliability and leak tolerance if it has a pump). At least on the Hesston balers, the hydraulic system applies tension to the top and bottom rails and the pressure on the cylinder is always constant as it's controlled by an adjustable relief valve. Changes in the cylinder stroke doesn't change what pressure it is operating at.

I can see how their is better than springs as it'd have a much lower spring rate (lower change in tension as the rails move), but the hydraulic system has no spring rate in all... it's constant pressure no matter whether the rails are completely collasped or open.

They talk about the differences on thier website, but are completely flawed in how hydraulic systems work; at least on Hesston balers, "Current spring tensioning or hydraulic tensioning devices are capable of maintaining a constant force on the tensioning rails, but only if the distance between the rails does not change."


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Every baler I've seen applies pressure to top and bottom rails, Hesston is no different. If you have hyd on your baler, keep it. You spent a ton of dough for it. If you have springs, throw them away and get airbags.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Ok now I'm even more confused lol.


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## Chuck (Dec 14, 2014)

I have bale skis and air baler,,, bale skis made the biggest difference . Air baler uses 30 amps for the compresser


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Have the air system on our baler built by my mechanic and love it. He can explain how it works better than I can. If he ever gets on here, busy with work.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Nate926 said:


> Ok now I'm even more confused lol.


Unless you've been battling problems with the hydraulic cylinder or pump, I don't see you gaining anything with the AirBaler setup. They're both going to work the same way: Force applied to the rails being constant no matter what position they're in.

Why AirBaler states that hydraulics don't do that is completely beyond me.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The airbaler is supposed to be able to automatically increase OR decrease pressure as field conditions change(hay getting lighter or heavier). Whereas, the springs or hydraulic pressure basically maintains the same pressure all the time. I have a Hesston factory hydraulic pressure system and I am satisfied to the point that it is not worth changing. I usually am baling alfalfa in short enough periods where the effect is inconsequential. Straight grass can be a different story if I start around noon and bale all day. I bale with the pressure gage set at or around 130 and then it kind of covers all bases....kind of the sweet spot of compromise. Really, it is kind of splitting hairs as I always seem to be out of the tractor once in a while regardless when baling. And when I do so I have just got into the habit of checking the bale weight by hand. Either way, the hydraulic system or the air baler system is not life altering for me.

But, I would prefer either over the spring hand crank tensioner.

Regards, Mike


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Vol said:


> The airbaler is supposed to be able to automatically increase OR decrease pressure as field conditions change(hay getting lighter or heavier). Whereas, the springs or hydraulic pressure basically maintains the same pressure all the time. I have a Hesston factory hydraulic pressure system and I am satisfied to the point that it is not worth changing. I usually am baling alfalfa in short enough periods where the effect is inconsequential. Straight grass can be a different story if I start around noon and bale all day. I bale with the pressure gage set at or around 130 and then it kind of covers all bases....kind of the sweet spot of compromise. Really, it is kind of splitting hairs as I always seem to be out of the tractor once in a while regardless when baling. And when I do so I have just got into the habit of checking the bale weight by hand. Either way, the hydraulic system or the air baler system is not life altering for me.
> 
> But, I would prefer either over the spring hand crank tensioner.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Their selling point on their site is that it applies constant pressure:



> What is the problem with hydraulic and spring systems? Why don't they work?
> 
> The secret to maintaining consistent bale density over a wide range of field conditions is to apply a constant force to the tensioning rails no matter how far apart they are at any one time.
> 
> ...


http://www.scottseaver.com/airbaler/questions.html

I would agree that their system could vary pressure just a little bit, but with the use of the large air tank, they basically make the air bag have a 0 spring rate like a hydraulic system would. With a smaller air volume the spring rate would be higher, but still lower than mechanical springs.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its basically a much cheaper way for doing what the hydraulic system does. Given if a JD tension pump dies its something like 1000$ to replace, I'd think an airbaler conversion would look pretty good.

The basic problem is a baler depends on such a complicated bunch of factors to set the bale density, springiness/shatter of the hay stems in the first part of the chamber transitioning more and more to friction forces once you leave the compression zone. The string spans the springy and friction zones both which doesn't help.

The reality is very little can be done to dramatically improve the problem short of what the big balers do which is have a computer continuously control the tension based on the load on the plunger face. Not worth it for a small baler.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Here is one on our baler.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

We have never had a hydraulic tension system so I can't really compare the two, but the air system is way better than the cranks and springs, much more consistent.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

We have placed a home made version of an air tensioner on our last 2 small square balers. It is a very good system. I believe the air system is quicker to respond than a hydraulic system and the components are pretty simple.

An easy project to build yourself if you like to have winter projects in the shop.

Regards,

T & R


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

I've been thinking about converting my spring tension to air tension for some time now. Just need to get off the couch and do it, LOL.

Looks like most of the parts are common items and/or easily fabricated. What about the air bag, does anyone have a good source for that? I've seen replacement air suspension bellows listed in AutoZone for less than $100. Will those work or are there better alternatives?


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

T & R Hay Farms said:


> We have placed a home made version of an air tensioner on our last 2 small square balers. It is a very good system. I believe the air system is quicker to respond than a hydraulic system and the components are pretty simple.
> 
> An easy project to build yourself if you like to have winter projects in the shop.
> 
> ...


My hydraulic cylinders went out (leaking). Can get rebuilt for $300 ea. When I start bailing I set them. When the sun goes down the bales get heavier. The only difference I see between springs and them is easier to set. 2 1/4 turns and you are good to go. Air guy says that won't happen???


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

RockmartGA said:


> I've been thinking about converting my spring tension to air tension for some time now. Just need to get off the couch and do it, LOL.
> 
> Looks like most of the parts are common items and/or easily fabricated. What about the air bag, does anyone have a good source for that? I've seen replacement air suspension bellows listed in AutoZone for less than $100. Will those work or are there better alternatives?


The airbag on ours come from Fleetpride a heavy truck and equipment parts store. The regulator is a Milton brand came from Northern tool. The airlines and fittings also come from Fleetpride. The airbag is a replacement part for an older Kenworth 8 bag air ride system. They are a little flexible more than the heavier 4 bag system which allows for finer tuning. I can get the part numbers if you like.


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## slvr98svt (Jan 18, 2011)

I have a quick question for IH 1586. Why did you mount the springs on top of air bag? Does that then not provide a solid platform for the airbag to push against and force the tensioner down? The springs will "give" and get pushed up as well correct unless you tighten them down quite far as well before baling? Or am I thinking to far into it?

I want to put one of these together over the winter and just trying to gather some info and pictures to pull ideas together.

Thanks,

-Matt


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

slvr98svt said:


> I have a quick question for IH 1586. Why did you mount the springs on top of air bag? Does that then not provide a solid platform for the airbag to push against and force the tensioner down? The springs will "give" and get pushed up as well correct unless you tighten them down quite far as well before baling? Or am I thinking to far into it?
> 
> I want to put one of these together over the winter and just trying to gather some info and pictures to pull ideas together.
> 
> ...


We did not use the springs on ours, want to let the air bag do all of the work in the same way that the factory hydraulic units has solid rods on it and no springs. Just my thinking. No matter how you mount it main thing is to measure carefully and get the air bag centered on the tension rail.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

slvr98svt said:


> I have a quick question for IH 1586. Why did you mount the springs on top of air bag? Does that then not provide a solid platform for the airbag to push against and force the tensioner down? The springs will "give" and get pushed up as well correct unless you tighten them down quite far as well before baling? Or am I thinking to far into it?
> 
> I want to put one of these together over the winter and just trying to gather some info and pictures to pull ideas together.
> 
> ...


That would be a question for my mechanic. I will try to get him on here so he can answer you questions.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

You have to adjust pressure/tension when dew sets because the hay gets a little heavier and has less spring to it. The friction of it sliding in the chamber changes too but not so much. With less spring back the density of bales goes way up even on a dry matter basis.


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## CaseIH84 (Jun 16, 2013)

slvr98svt said:


> I have a quick question for IH 1586. Why did you mount the springs on top of air bag? Does that then not provide a solid platform for the airbag to push against and force the tensioner down? The springs will "give" and get pushed up as well correct unless you tighten them down quite far as well before baling? Or am I thinking to far into it?
> 
> I want to put one of these together over the winter and just trying to gather some info and pictures to pull ideas together.
> 
> ...


Matt,

I am IH 1586's mechanic that built the air bag system on our baler. We left the springs on the baler as just a trial when we first built it. When we get around to it we will remove the springs off there as they are not needed. The system works very well. Air will compress which makes changes in field conditions easier. You do not have to stop and adjust baler as moisture fluctuates. You dont have to adjust for different grasses with different densities. You set the air pressure to how you want baler to compress and it stays pretty constant.


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## slvr98svt (Jan 18, 2011)

Good info, thanks for the reply!

-Matt


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## silvergoose (Jan 9, 2012)

My question is, do you need the pressure regulator? Or will the expansion into the tank work the same?


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

silvergoose said:


> My question is, do you need the pressure regulator? Or will the expansion into the tank work the same?


We have a regulator on ours but I think that expansion back into the tank would actually work as good or better just would need a supply tank in case you need to add a little air to tighten it up a little.


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## CaseIH84 (Jun 16, 2013)

cornshucker said:


> We have a regulator on ours but I think that expansion back into the tank would actually work as good or better just would need a supply tank in case you need to add a little air to tighten it up a little.


I agree. When we built ours we did not use regulator. I wanted the air to have place to expand keeping same amount of pressue on chamber. I have not had to adjust pressure in field while baling. The only time we have is when going from first cutting to second. Took some playing around to find pressure that worked for us in beginning but from then on been good to go.


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