# Starting a new hay operation



## Shawn1234 (Nov 5, 2020)

So I just inherited 174 acres from a family member who just passed away, and I thought about starting a hay operation on the land. It is already very fertile ground and heavy soil that holds water well so no irrigation will be needed. I was wondering about what size equipment I will need to cut this hay 3-4 times per year and I have about $50000 I can spend on equipment, so what size of equipment should I get and about how much would it cost and what is the best kind of bale to bale? 
Thanks in advance for your input and it is much appreciated.


----------



## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

Our partnership bales 200 acres of hay year $50,000 will not buy much if you are starting from scratch. You are going to need a mower conditioner $8000 to $12000 used baler $10000 to $15000 tedder 4 basket $3500 used

rake $1000 to $3000 used. Tractors one 80 to 100 hp $10,000 to ? one 60 HP loader tractor $10000 to ?. Wagons or trailers $1500 to $4000 depending on size. Accumulator and grapple $15000. If you matched our equipment you be north of $250,000.

5 tractors, skid loader, telehandler, diskbine round baler, small square baler with 10 flat accumulator, 6 basket tedder, 2 rotary rakes, 3 trailers, 10 hay racks, an elevator. 3 pick-up trucks. We are long on equipment because 2 of us work full time and we keep stuff around a while after it is paid for. Our JD 7400 is a 1996 and runs great gets hooked to the diskbine all summer we try to have a tractor for each piece of equipment so we don't waste time hooking and unhooking. This took 50 years to build and now we just trade every few years to up grade equipment the tractors are all low hours for there age the 7400 is 24 years old with 5800 hours on it. I would be hard pressed to justify this type of investment getting started. But 50K is not going to get you there 75K might with so good buys. It also depends on what kind of tractors you get you can find some old no cab tractors that you could get in the 5K to 10K range that would run hay equipment but good solid tractors like a 1960's JD 4020 brings 8K to 15k at auction even older IH, H and M will bring $1500 to $2500 hope this helps try tractorhouse for prices


----------



## Shawn1234 (Nov 5, 2020)

Thanks for the input, sounds like you got a real nice setup!


----------



## mstuck21 (Oct 4, 2019)

If it were me I'd decide what kind of hay i want to grow and who the intended market is. Then determine a small fraction of the acres to get started on and cash rent the rest. If you like making hay you can build your acres and equipment line over time.

I don't live in hay country, so in my area a 175 acre farm making 3-4 cuttings a year would be one of the biggest hay operations around. Requires lots of capital, equipment, know-how, etc. I'd start small and stretch your dollars. You have the land.
Good luck.


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Welcome to HT, Shawn1234.

I don't know your location in Michigan, but will guess the lower half of the lower P. The reason 3-4 cuttings, I don't think will happen in the UpHayMan's land (hope he will let me know if I'm wrong ).

Second point, is the type of ground and "*heavy soil that holds water well*", to get 3-4 cuttings, you might need to grow alfalfa. Alfalfa doesn't play well with real wet feet. There is a new variety that might however. The grasses that grow well here are 'cool season' grasses (OG, Brome & Timothy are the most common). Three cuttings of those grasses as dry hay, usually will not be successful. Unless you do a late, late fall and the weather cooperates.

Now, if all 174 acres are tillable and into hay production, who has been doing it? If not presently into hay, what's been previously planted? You could have some crop restrictions (chemicals).

Perhaps with you given cash, you could start with10-20 acres, develop your market (if not already established). Renting out the rest of the acreage for cash flow purposes, as Mstuck mentions.

Lastly, we like to help spend YOUR money, so toss those equipment finds our way for opinions, please.  But as Beav states you might be awful light on the amount of funds needed for 174 acres, if fewer acres, your budget could work.

Hay market prices are pretty good in Michigan THIS year, doesn't mean they will be every year. Just looked at local auction prices for this week ss $2.75 to $8.25, RB $30 to $57.50. Hard to make money to buy equipment at the low end of these prices. 

Larry


----------



## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

If I was going to get started on that many acres I would round bale it to learn more about hay making. Would not be as much money per ton as square bales, but a lot cheaper to start out equipment wise and take a lot of the weather worries and labor worries out of it. Then once you get that figured out and get a market growing could start buyibg square bailing equipment and begin square baling on small parts of the property. It takes a lot more time and effort to get acres of square bales up than round bales, unless you invest a lot more money.


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Shawn1234 said:


> So I jus I will need to cut this hay 3-4 times per year


Now that I see you are located in the UP. Depending upon the area, I don't think getting 4 cuttings of "dry" hay is quite possible. Some guys only get one cutting of dry hay in the UP. I bust my rear to get 4 cuttings, an I'm 200 miles south of the bridge going into the UP.

Then again I could be VERY wrong.

Larry


----------



## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

At 174 acres you better have some pretty good equipment or you will be working on stuff all the time. 6 basket tedder will be a must. You will be forever with a 4 basket.


----------



## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

If he makes his first and last cutting in baleage he MIGHT get 4 cuttings. This was an exceptional year and was doing 3 cuttings of dry but some fields got first taken off just as the summer heat got here and no rain, wasn't hardly worth doing the 2nd on them.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Depends where your at in the UP if its like here in the far north and west your sometimes lucky to get 1 dry cutting. A small 2nd cutting is sometimes a possibility but I wouldn't count on it. 3rd or 4th cutting is a fantasy here.


----------



## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

What is the first and last frost date on the 174 acres? You can get a close estimate at NOAA.gov. That impacts how early and how long you can make hay. How far away is your main market? That will impact your sales price. Are you closer to WI or the bridge? Any product needs reasonable access to a viable market.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

I've had frost every month of the year lol. "Usually" the last frost is in early June and the first frost is in September.

2020 I had frost the 2nd week of June and covered the garden 5 nights in a row at the end of August. Very short growing season.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

I've had frost every month of the year lol. "Usually" the last frost is in early June and the first frost is in September.

2020 I had frost the 2nd week of June and covered the garden 5 nights in a row at the end of August. Very short growing season.


----------



## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

to chevytaHOE5674, I loved my many fall hunting trips into the UP for grouse and woodcock, lots of great cover and wilderness. I really don't recall a lot of intensive farming there, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Are the hay customers mainly horse owners or cattle operations or dairy?

I've hunted the line all the way from the big bridge to Grand Rapids, MN. Great memories.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Around me it's horse customers and beef operations. Our growing season is short but land is cheap so summer grazing pencils out and people will practically give hay away so feeding 7-8+ months isn't too terribly costly.


----------



## BisonMan (Apr 27, 2020)

Welcome to HayTalk!

I did my first year myself this year on a small farm I bought - 60 acres. I'm looking to get into Bison, but am also considering a hay operation on some family land for profit and to provide Hay to my livestock. I also am planning to do more cuts next season to stock my barn while I build my fence.

I got in with a medium sized custom farmer who has been in the game a long time. I leaned on his knowledge and also his equipment and skills. I have to agree with the first comment that the entry price for equipment will be > 50K, and that if you are going into something longer term you might not always want the cheap equipment with higher long term maintenance issues. Not saying it can't be done on the cheap, but it depends on your skillset.

We did both large rounds and small squares.

- For planting, I leaned on him for the land prep, and bought a brillion to put down my pasture. He ended up drilling in some oats as a cover crop and I went behind him in the brillion.

- For the small squares, I provided the labour with a couple nephews and a buddy. It was a hustle for an office guy like me, but it was a good chance to learn. I've got a hayloft so I put all the small squares up there to fill the barn up. If you're not living on the farm, these are a bit of a pain to sell. I went down there tonight to sell 8 for $40. Which feels more like a not for profit right now. But hoping to get some steady customers coming back.

- For the Large Rounds, I brought the tractor which pulled his wagons up to the barn, and I used a bobcat to load the bales onto the wagons. I was expecting to have people come to my farm and have to load them up, but we ended up shipping the bales out direct off the field to a big local feedlot.

Next year I'd like to outsource a little less. I might pick up a small square baler and basically do that part on my own. It's just as cost effective at the moment to have him come over and do the mowing and raking, but not sure.

Buying good equipment takes time. Especially if you're looking on a budget. For myself, I like the idea of having my go to guy, then leaning into certain parts over time. It took me months to find a good used tractor at a fair price, and the time spent searching was a big saving.

The other thing to think about is forage, up here in SW Ontario Canada, we likely have similar weather to you in Michigan. All the guys do their late cut in wrapped forage, because the hay doesn't have enough light or heat to dry. Because I'm in the pasture game and I was paying my custom guy, I didn't cut for forage in september. But all the guys running with their own gear seem to be doing this.

A bit of a ramble but this is my rookie experience. I also found my hay wasn't quite the primo hay I thought it would be, and margins were pretty tight. Part of that is that I was paying a guy to help me, but the cheque you gotta cut for machinery is large.

I would only count on perhaps 2 cuts of hay year 1, and maybe a cut of forage.


----------

