# Horse Manure on Hay Ground?



## jstrohfus

We have a 50 horse boarding operation. We currently dispose of all of our manure on soybean/corn ground or have the neighbor truck farmer compost it.

I had always been told not to spread manure (specifically horse manure) on alfalfa/grass hay ground used to make Horse Hay. The reason I recalled was a sour taste and horses not eating it.

We have 35 acres of hay ground right now. With fertilizer costs being what they are I am trying to research this and see if I should start applying on our hay acreage as well.

Can anyone provide some insight or reference articles? From everything I can find I don't see any negatives. Actually, most negative comments are about spreading on non-hay ground because the woodshavings/sawdust robs a lot of nitrogen.

Thanks much!

Regards,

John


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## swmnhay

Maybe compost it yourself for a year or 2 so it breaks down and bedding rots.You could also spread it in the fall after last cutting and have the winter to breakdown in field.It should be broke down enough by then so it wouldn't get in the hay.

I don't know if the horses will taste it or not but I'll bet they will eat it if thats all they have to eat.


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## Rodney R

Does your manure have sawdust/shavings in it? If so the ONLY thing to do with it is to put it on a pile and compost it. Alfalfa makes it's own nitrogen, correct. However, it will not compensate for the way the sawdust/shavings will lower the pH of the soil. In most cases a guy would spend more $$ in the lime to bring the pH back, than he would get from spreading manure that had sawdust/shavings in it. We let our manure pile sit for 2 years (there's about 17 horses here) - you can tell right away when you get into fresh stuff - it's brown - the composted stuff is nice and black.

Rodney


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## Heyhay..eh

I wouldn't put any manure fertilizer on that was not composed or in liquid form. Like swmn & Rodney I compost all manure for a minimum of 2 year and generally three if I can manage it. The reason for wanting it so black and fine is that I am now putting seed in with the manure before spreading to help renovate the hay fields.

Also I only use straw for bedding never sawdust.

You need to turn your pile a few times to get it working and expose the centre to air.

Take care


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## Production Acres

Aside from the ph issue with the shavings, when spreading any type of chicken litter, cow manure, horse manure, etc., you really have to watch how you tedd your hay and how you rake your hay. Tedders set too low will throw clumps of manure into the hay and especially a ground driven rake - ie. a wheel rake will throw or flick manure particles off the top of the ground into the windrow of hay (ask me how I know) and animals will prefer another hay. You need a rake set where it rakes the top of the hay stubble, not one set to dethatch your yard.


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## enos

Rodney R said:


> Does your manure have sawdust/shavings in it? If so the ONLY thing to do with it is to put it on a pile and compost it. Alfalfa makes it's own nitrogen, correct. However, it will not compensate for the way the sawdust/shavings will lower the pH of the soil. In most cases a guy would spend more $$ in the lime to bring the pH back, than he would get from spreading manure that had sawdust/shavings in it. We let our manure pile sit for 2 years (there's about 17 horses here) - you can tell right away when you get into fresh stuff - it's brown - the composted stuff is nice and black.
> 
> Rodney


Rodney
Spread a couple of bags of 46-0-0 fertillizer on pile when your pushing it up/ turning pile and it will be black dirt in 6 months.


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## mlappin

I agree with Rodney R. We rent several hundred acres from a guy over in the next town. They have around 20 'show' horse's (his wife thinks they are at least) and they clean the stalls constantly, his manure pile has more sawdust/shavings in it than manure. We test the area he spreads his manure in the fall and spring and _he_ pays for the lime and spreading on that area. Wasn't hard to get this set up as he admitted the sawdust was harming our yields more than the little manure in it could help em.


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## swmnhay

I wondered about the sawdust.There is a truck wash here that 100's of tons of sawdust out of semi trailers with very little manure in it.Anyway a farmer is spreading it on corn/bean ground quite thick.I think it may come back to haunt him.


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## mlappin

I've heard all kinds of things about sawdust/wood chips as compost. Several articles claim it won't harm the PH, but it ties nitrogen up instead. Not sure about tieing the nitrogen up as soil test after test shows where our landlord spreads the sawdust will need lime before the areas that he doesn't spread on.


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## Mike120

I've got a 16 horse barn and I spread the sawdust/manure on one of my fields in the winter. We lime it in the fall. We also mix some amonium nitrate in with it as it goes in the spreader. In the summer I've got some low spots where I spread it. When the field starts growing I hit it with extra fertilizer and we stay away from it until the last cutting. It's Bermuda and seems to do fine, the field is also big enough where we don't get too much on it. We switched to pellets for bedding because the shavings don't adsorb well and do not break down. With the pellets (sawdust) we reduced what we spread by about 70%. I'd prefer to use straw, but we have a hard time finding it and only use it for foaling.


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## hayray

We spread horse manure mixed with sawdust on a 20 acre field right next to my farm and the PH is not effected like you all are stating. I spread in the winter and the PH is always around 7 being limed about every 4 to 6 years just like my other fields and test high in P all the time. Why would wood sawdust or shavings lower the PH? I spread every year so the field is in a equilibrium as far as nitrogen being tied up and we are real conservative on how we use the sawdust so the manure looks like horse crap and not more like sawdust.


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## UpNorth

The issue with spreading any kind of bedding pack manure (straw, sawdust, etc.) is the high C:N ratio. If the C:N ratio is above 25 the microbes will need to take nitrogen from something else (often the soil) to break down the carbon. This why the guys like enos on here can get black compost in 6 months when adding addtitional N.

Turning the compost piles can also decrease the time needed to compost.

A lot large dairies in WI are putting liquid dairy manure immediately following alfalfa harvest to minimize damage to the crop.


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## Heyhay..eh

Good point by upNorth. If you are cleaning out bedding too often you end up with too much bedding and not enough manure. Your chit to bedding ratio should be as high as you can get it. Also a good urine concentration assists in the decomposition process.

As for ph and shavings. Coniferous wood shaving have a higher acidity than do deciduous so that might be a contribution to any ph imbalance that results in the application.

Take care


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## mlappin

Yup, nothing but pine sawdust is used at the landlords. His wife is too worried about getting walnut and cherry dust in her bedding from what he says.

Could also be on this particular ground he spreads on the highest dryest part of it to avoid cutting ruts as we no-till the entire farm, the area he spreads is somewhat sandier then the rest. If he thinks the pine sawdust boogers up the PH, and it was his ideal to pay for the lime and spreading on that part, I'm sure not gonna argue the point.


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## bugscuz

The questions I have are these: With a 50 horse operation what size spreader would you need? Also, what type? Would the paddles have to be different? To get a good even spread the paddles would have to be moving at a good RPM rate or PTO speed? Can anyone answer these questions
Thanks, Richard


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## swmnhay

bugscuz said:


> The questions I have are these: With a 50 horse operation what size spreader would you need? Also, what type? Would the paddles have to be different? To get a good even spread the paddles would have to be moving at a good RPM rate or PTO speed? Can anyone answer these questions
> Thanks, Richard


Here ya go.Get R Done on 1 load.
Meyer Manufacturing - Manure Spreaders - 9500 Crop Max Spreader

Actually a 100-200 bu spreader should work fine.Depending how many trips you want to make.A box type spreader with horizontal beaters are the most common type.With double beaters you get a lot nicer spread.Yep run at PTO speed


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## mlappin

A side slinger spreads much finer than the old rear discharge. We have a New Holland 306, if the door is barely opened you can spread so fine you can barely tell you spread at all. They do pull more horsepower though, I wouldn't attempt to run ours with anything less than 80hp. One big advantage is no web chains to break when it's clear full.

The neighbor with all the horsies has this one, a New Holland 304 and runs it just fine with a 60hp tractor. We only spread twice a year and when I'm done, I take several old junk small squares, break em and toss em in the back, by time the auger in the bottom gets em to the front they have pretty much wiped it clean. I might wash it out then, let it several days in the sun to dry, then spray the insides with waste oil. I don't plan on replacing it anytime in the near future.


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## baddog201

the best spreader is a knight side discharge those things grind up anything thats what i use to haul manure on all my hay ground thats not liquid i only haul in the fall and i will put nitrogen on my hay after 1st for the grass fields and soil test every 2 years and apply fertilzer accordingly


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## hay wilson in TX

There are too many variables, for a one best answer.

As for sawdust or shavings the acid would not be a problem on the calcareous soils.

Personally I do not like fresh manure on hay ground. That is my personal problem.

A real slick to the horse bedding situation is to use low quality grass hay rather than straw or wood products. Horses like to eat 18 hours a day and seldom are fed a low enough quality forage to allow this. With the low quality hay the horses can graze all night, to their hearts content. When the prize equine looses interest in the bedding, pull the old hay out and feed it to some stockers. Consider it supercharged hay! 
If it is a show farm, run a few stockers in with the horses and the cattle will graze where the horses don't resulting in an even looking grass pasture/paddock. 
There is or was one Kentucky horse farm manager/owner who managed his operation this way. the romance of horses is highest in Kentucky.
Some place near College Station is another horse operation that is also managed this way. Texas horse owners might not have the romance of Kentucky but maximizing profit margins is important with many.

In the more distant past it was not unusual to run some hogs in with feeder cattle, to clean up the grain in the manure. Plus some chickens to clean up what the hogs missed.


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## bugscuz

mlappin said:


> A side slinger spreads much finer than the old rear discharge. We have a New Holland 306, if the door is barely opened you can spread so fine you can barely tell you spread at all. They do pull more horsepower though, I wouldn't attempt to run ours with anything less than 80hp. One big advantage is no web chains to break when it's clear fu
> The neighbor with all the horsies has this one, a New Holland 304 and runs it just fine with a 60hp tractor. We only spread twice a year and when I'm done, I take several old junk small squares, break em and toss em in the back, by time the auger in the bottom gets em to the front they have pretty much wiped it clean. I might wash it out then, let it several days in the sun to dry, then spray the insides with waste oil. I don't plan on replacing it anytime in the near future.


I was told that the 306 and 304 are used for Slurry liquid manure! Will these models work for Dry Horse manure with sawdust and how far does it throw? Thanks, Richard


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## Mike120

He might need somethig that big if all 50 are in a barn. I only have 16 stalls so all the rest stay in the pasture. We drag and rotate and never have a manure problem. Manure and bedding from the barn go in whatever field I'm renovating. BTW the main problem with morse manure is that any seeds that go in, pass right on through and go into the fields.


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