# new operation with 725 acres for small square bales.



## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Just starting a new operation of 750 acres in southeastern NY, All of the above mentioned hay will be baled into small squares (50 lbs) and sold on the growing horse market in our area. We bought a Kuhn hay accumulator to speed up the process and less handling of the bales. im curious to hear from others at this same acreage level of the pros and cons they face during season. all advice is welcomed and appreciated.


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

Wow, that's a lot of acreage to start with. Lots of hay to market. Best wishes there. What kind of hay will you be growing?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

eric1066 said:


> Just starting a new operation of 750 acres in southeastern NY, All of the above mentioned hay will be baled into small squares (50 lbs) and sold on the growing horse market in our area. We bought a Kuhn hay accumulator to speed up the process and less handling of the bales. im curious to hear from others at this same acreage level of the pros and cons they face during season. all advice is welcomed and appreciated.


So besides the accumulator what else do you have to bale 750 acres of hay in an efficient manner in order to make hay the horsey people will accept?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

With your given weather, I hope you have a lot of equipment / man power and I hope you are talking about an 18 bale accumulator (with spare set of new tires, 750 acres is a lot of hay).

Larry


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I've been doing this all my life but this is the first all on my own, and yes we have our tractor trailers to haul from field to pole barn and personal to get the job done.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

In New York State with 750 acres I hope you said you bought 3 kuhns accumulators with three balers and acid applicator setup on all of them.

With the weather limitations I don't think it is possible to finish your first cut before 2nd cut starts with one baler on 750 acres even if only moderately managed to say 2 ton per acre. You should easily get 3 tons per acre there though.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

With the way our weather has been here the last 5-10 years, 750 acres of hay would be near impossible to get done round baling it all and leaving the bales sit till your caught up, if ever.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

It's definitely a challenge but others do it


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Please forgive commenters skepticism. Every few months someone comes on here and announces that they are going to be baling a large amount of acreage like about what you have stated. Usually these people are vastly under equipped for the amount of acreage they plan on baling. You have an accumulator, which in my area still wouldn't allow you to get even close to producing quality horse hay on 725-750 acres. And we have a bit better weather for producing hay then in NY from what I hear. So if you want good advice from any of the members here you might want to fill us in with a few more details of your operation then just that you have an accumulator and some trucks to take the hay to the pole barns. I have be baling hay my whole life also, but to increase a new 750 acres would require a lot more then buying an accumulator.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Your first cut window is about 6-8 weeks, there are about 10 baling day opportunities in there without acid - you need to put up 7250 bales a day which is not possible with one baler. Even if acid opens up another 5 days of baling, you can't do it with one baler.

I would look into a big square baler asap or you are gonna have a bumper crop of way mature hay to sell as you bale first cut in august and September.



eric1066 said:


> It's definitely a challenge but others do it


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

We plan on running 3 balers at once and in time probably buy a stacker wagon.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

eric1066 said:


> We plan on running 3 balers at once and in time probably buy a stacker wagon.


3 balers with 1accumalator?


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

No 3


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Eric, if you want good solid advice and not abrupt scptical brush-off, please feed us with several paragraphs of information on your plans rather than dismissive one-liners. There is a lot of knowledge here and people want to share it, but you have to respect us if you want us to respect you. By "respect us" I don't mean "bow down before us", I mean give us the information we need to be able to advise you. At the moment you are teasing us by just trickling it out.

Roger


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Sorry, I just got back off the road. I have 4 120 hp tractors, 13' Hyde swing discbine with metal conditioners, 1 baler and in process of buying the other two and 3 Kuhns but would like a stacker wagon or two. The land I kinda fell into situation where it all came available at once and is currently in hay. Mixed grasses at the moment. Two tractor trailers with drop decks to haul all of the hay from fields to barn (which is being planned out and site work is being done at the moment. 80'x130'


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

If there's anything I left out just feel free to ask


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I like the stack wagon idea.....matter of fact you probably could use two of those running at the same time. It takes a lot of grit and optimism to take on 725 acres of hay. What are your plans for the hay that gets wet?

Regards, Mike


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I think 2 was the way to go but I just couldn't swing it or find any close to me to go look at. I have a mulch hay buyer already that I deal with on a regular basis so hopefully that solves that problem.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I wouldn't touch it without at least four, and preferably five balers. I don't use acid, so I will defer to others there. You didn't say, so I assume that you are talking about 14x18 balers and not 16 x 18 as they seem to be not favoured back East.
I seriously don't think that three balers will get it done consistently. It might work once or twice....
I would also recommend a couple of rakes, and big ones.
Opinions vary greatly about the best means to haul and stack that much hay. If your road run is less than ten miles, stack wagons win every time, hands down. To put it up efficiently, you will need two good ones. Not some beat up junk 1049's either. Spend the money to get the right equipment. There is a phrase that comes to mind. Pay me now, or pay me later. You will either pay for the equipment or pay the consequences.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Let's run some numbers.
750 acres at 3/tpa. = 2250 tons @ 50#/bale = 90,000 bales. Running stack wagons at 160 per load that = 562.5 loads. Each load, with an accomplished operator takes roughly 17 minutes. X 562 loads = 159.2 hours. 
On second thought, maybe 3 stackers. That is if you are stacking field side, and planning your business.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes we're doing 14"x18" bales, I hoping to do a season or two and then add an whatever piece you f equipment I needed to really get everything done effectively. I'm fully prepared for the other madness of the first two seasons with the equipment I have. Yes I'm sure it would have been smarter to start smaller but I just can't give up all of the land that I'm getting literally for free


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. It isn't going to happen without more equipment. 
How many people do you have available to help?


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

We have 7 on hand for the season, what do you feel that I need to accomplish it then ?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Make sure with your building plans to make them tall enough for the hay stacker if you go that way in the future. I'm not sure one building is enough for all that hay. But maybe if you are selling as fast as you are putting it in.


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## Apm1026 (Feb 11, 2012)

I run 2 balers and one bale Barron , and do 40- 90 acres at a time. For 750 acres, all mixed grass hay
It will all be ready at once. You would need two discbine mocos , self propelled for speed, 6 sm sq balers, 3 bale Barron's , 2-3 tella handlers to put cubes in trucks , my opinion, makeing sm squares is a slow go


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes that was a number one proirity in the planning, I plan on filling all my customers orders first and then finishing the barn.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

eric1066 said:


> We have 7 on hand for the season, what do you feel that I need to accomplish it then ?


I will let others who are more familiar with your area chime in. Here, in the arid mountain west where we have excellent hay making weather, I would have the following. 2 rotary cut swathers
2 large rakes
5 balers
2 stackers
2 hay heads, either loader mount or Bobcat mount.
This list would be the minimum equipment list for me.
Seven people would be more than enough, on my operation.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

It can work with 3 balers with acid applicators and accepting some will be very late first cut but one tractor isn't going to keep up to 3 accumulators.

700ish bales per trailer load or whatever your trailers hold is going to be a problem quite quickly if you are any distance from barn. Just the time strapping and unstrapping will be a problem right away.

Unloading at the barn to keep your trailers moving is going to be a jam as well.

Honestly a couple of modern bale barons or two good sized stack wagons are needed to make this work.

If you don't want late first cut a 4th baler is probably needed.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ohh wow, ok that's a very interesting running down on equipment needed to get the acreage done. And I do appreciate everyone's input. What are you thoughts on your bale baron ? I've looked at that option but where I live I'm alone because everybody dies it the old fashion way


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok, these are all very good points to consider. And make adjustments before the season starts


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

A single baron at say 800 bales an hour means with your 8000 bales a day target - 10 hour day with no breakdowns. Their self propelled does 1200 bales an hour but very expensive.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I think you use tedders in NY also right? So there is probably either a real big one or 2+ smaller ones. Depending on your field size.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> It can work with 3 balers with acid applicators and accepting some will be very late first cut but one tractor isn't going to keep up to 3 accumulators.
> 700ish bales per trailer load or whatever your trailers hold is going to be a problem quite quickly if you are any distance from barn. Just the time strapping and unstrapping will be a problem right away.
> Unloading at the barn to keep your trailers moving is going to be a jam as well.
> Honestly a couple of modern bale barons or two good sized stack wagons are needed to make this work.
> If you don't want late first cut a 4th baler is probably needed.


I am a pessimist. Something will break down..... therefore my number of 5 balers.
I also come from the perspective of get in, get done, get out.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

And frustratingly a single big square baler or a new netwrap 5x6 round baler would be a walk in the park. Relatively speaking.

A good 5x6 netwrap is capable of something like 60 tons an hour.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Absolutely needed. Need a big un.



Teslan said:


> I think you use tedders in NY also right? So there is probably either a real big one or 2+ smaller ones. Depending on your field size.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

If I just ran the numbers right, that's almost $7k in twine alone, never-ending fuel, oil changes, labor, and countless other costs.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

If the weather doesn't cooperate when a crop is prime for harvest you did say you have a mulch hay buyer, will he take small bales, or big squares or rounds? Some times you have to sacrifice some hay to mother nature to get the next crop. If you start early on the first crop and finish late it will spread the window out and from that point on you will be making hay all summer.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

So here's a question for everyone then, what is a manageable number of acres to go across and still make a living ?


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

My buyers primarily small squares on the mulch


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> And frustratingly a single big square baler or a new netwrap 5x6 round baler would be a walk in the park. Relatively speaking.
> A good 5x6 netwrap is capable of something like 60 tons an hour.


In ideal conditions that would amount to almost 40 hours of baling.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

eric1066 said:


> So here's a question for everyone then, what is a manageable number of acres to go across and still make a living ?


Manageable? Put it in front of me and I will find a way to manage it.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

If you are going for the high end horse hay using acid to extend the baling window can be a problem as some horse hay buyers don't want the stuff unless you use other preservatives without the acid smell.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

lol I agree but the overall consensus from the group is that 750 acres is impossible to do. So I'm trying to see what they feel is a manageable acre amount but something I can make a living on


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

danwi said:


> If you are going for the high end horse hay using acid to extend the baling window can be a problem as some horse hay buyers don't want the stuff unless you use other preservatives without the acid smell.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

eric1066 said:


> So here's a question for everyone then, what is a manageable number of acres to go across and still make a living ?


There are so many variables to that question. Location, hay prices, debt, living expenses.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes I agree and found that out very early on in this business


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Teslan said:


> There are so many variables to that question. Location, hay prices, debt, living expenses.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Well ball park figure, there's always variables


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

eric1066 said:


> So here's a question for everyone then, what is a manageable number of acres to go across and still make a living ?


Thats a trick question there are farms small and large that can't make a living. And there are others that can.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I agree, We have a trucking business as well so it's not completely depended on the hay operation as well


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

eric1066 said:


> lol I agree but the overall consensus from the group is that 750 acres is impossible to do. So I'm trying to see what they feel is a manageable acre amount but something I can make a living on


oh it's not impossible at all. One just has to have enough of the right equipment to make it possible.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Exactly, I've had great success in smaller scales with others but I just felt it was time to go out on the own and on a larger scale


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Besides your equipment costs I would hate to see the fertilizer and herbicide bill on 725 acres


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I've been working with casella Organic and I've had lots of luck with there products and the cost isn't terrible, yes it's expensive but it's not going to kill me haha


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

eric1066 said:


> lol I agree but the overall consensus from the group is that 750 acres is impossible to do. So I'm trying to see what they feel is a manageable acre amount but something I can make a living on


I haven't seen anyone say that it is impossible, and several folks on this site do that much hay. What I have seen is a general response to you trying to ensure that you have realistic expectations of what you can accomplish with the equipment that you have to work with, or the lack thereof.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes I know I was just jk around, I just came off a 3,000 acre grain operation where I was very involved in the overall operation so this is nothing new to me and I do appreciate all of the advice


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Pretty reasonable with only 2 cuts a year. That one big baler would take something like 8 small square balers to keep up to it.



Lostin55 said:


> In ideal conditions that would amount to almost 40 hours of baling.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Well Eric, I'm not too far from you. 750 acres in NY? Some mega dairy didn't have e it? Wow, you are a lucky sonofagun! Are you thinking of staying with two cuts or try to squeeze in a third? Mixed grass hay? Personally, I would take a little less tonnage per cut to help with drydown. Large mowers and rakes will help keep your fuel bill under control. No weird seeps or roving wet holes? Just a few problems I deal with. I do 250 acres 3 cuts. I use one baler but I'd love to have 3. How's the field sizes? Mine are all small parcels 30 acres and under. I do run multiple mowers and rakes and then beat the tar out of the baler and wagons. Training help is the big hiccup. Case in point, I am going back to rolabar rakes because the help keeps tearing up the rotaries. I am going to say that it takes 500 acres to make any decent money on hay in this state. That's all premium being sold as such in a good market. It's a big jump in equipment cost from a couple hundred acres to almost 1000 well really 2250 if you cover it 3 times. I would be looking at a butterfly mower real hard. Is ould also consider adding a couple round balers just to help clear the fields quicker. So my wish list would be butterfly mower SP mower, 2 6 star Tedder's, 1 10 star, three double rotaries, two hi cap wheel rakes, 4 balers on double hitches 2 single, 2 stackliners on level to gently rolling ground bale baron on steeper stuff. I think you are too big for a kuhns system. You need more speed than what they offer. Just my.02 adjust it for inflation.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I was just planning on 2 cuttings and yes most of the fields are between 30 to 50 acres.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Eric. I run about 600 ac and about the 400 straw. we have 3 small balers but usually only run 2 and I own a 3x3 baler on the halves with another farmer. We chop probably 250 ac of first which helps. Get what ever equipment you can get and have some back up plans. I am never afraid to call in a neighbor to help, and they have bailed me out a lot. Depending on how far your barns are you may want to consider building ricks in the field. We Have found that we can usually bale more than we can haul back to the barns. if you build a good stack you can haul out on days hat you are not baling. Use good tarps!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you, that was a thought as well. I do realize the logistical nightmare of 750 acres but we're determined to do this. I've had success with big straw bales in the past selling them to big dairys to use as a filler there dry cow ration


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## hmve (Mar 27, 2013)

You might consider round baling half and then re-baling into small squares in the off season. Grass hay re-bales nice Alfalfa... not so much.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

eric1066 said:


> lol I agree but the overall consensus from the group is that 750 acres is impossible to do. So I'm trying to see what they feel is a manageable acre amount but something I can make a living on


Not sure what is an reasonable number, whats you're weather where you're at, a few people here tried making that much hay and they were doing it in big squares, didn't take long to cut back to about 400 acres or less. Anybody in this area thats approaching the original acreage you were talking about (700+) is milking cows and its ALL chopped and stored in a bunker. If they have some get to dry to chop then they'll large square it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

eric1066 said:


> Yes I know I was just jk around, I just came off a 3,000 acre grain operation where I was very involved in the overall operation so this is nothing new to me and I do appreciate all of the advice


From personal experience, row crops are a LOT easier in our area.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Had quite a few friends moved to New York and found that the growing season is quite a struggle up there


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

From my point of view, NY is flooded with hay! How the hell could you ever sell it all and make any money? You would need to lowball all the other guys or truck the the stuff to where the money is..Sounds like one heck of a challenge!
I have bought a bunch of hay out of NY and it has been hit or miss, most of it was not up to our standard of quality but beggers cant be choosy lol.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

It's hit or miss in NY for sure. The micro climates from one valley to the next can drive you nuts. Late July in through sometimes the fog doesn't burn off till afternoon. Then factor in the low price it fetches regardless of quality. The market doesn't really encourage investment. Hence so many miners pulling balers through the fields. There are a few folks who have found a good market and will provide quality to them and usually don't sell local unless they have extra.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

The weather is very tricky here for sure, the overall plan is whatever I can't bale in time I will plant some type of row crop to compensate with the remaining acres. But the first season I'll try and do as much hay as possible


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Welcome to haytalk. I currently go over 200 acres of my own hay making it into small square and round bales and sell 90% right out of the field as well as custom. 2016 was the first year since 2004 where we were able to make 1st cut dry hay before the end of June. I live in northwest PA so the weather may be similar. IF you are able to start last week of May through the first 2 weeks of June You may need to tedd the hay as much as 3 times to get it baled in the short windows we have.

As hillside said your window will be smaller the later in the season you get. Are you on hill or valleys mostly. I had fields I did custom on that were deep in valley that the fog did not burn off till noon or later and from the same owner had field high up on the hill that one day kept baling till 9PM because there was a good wind that kept the dew off.

I won't go into equipment lots of advise already there.

Selling. Are you taking over a market that already exits? 750 acres and hoping to sell it would not be my first choice. If possible maybe put in other crops oats, wheat, corn or maybe rent it to some one and build up to the 750.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ohh nice, and the land is mostly high country with good drainage with some sloping ground. I already have a market for 60% of it so the rest if I'm able to realistically able to get across it and make a quality product for my customers then I will try and move all that I can locally or out source to out brokers


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

When I came home from the Marines I started with 200 acres of hay ground, that was a great time and I made money. But it was in the wrong location with surrounded by large dairys that were all land hungry. So there was really no room for expansion


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I was wondering if the 750 acres is all planted in grass mix and established for this year or do you have to get some of the acres planted and established?


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

It's all currently in hay


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I know this is totally off topic, but I couldn't help it.

With me being in the custom business, I couldn't help but run some numbers.

Swathing = 18,750

Raking = 7500, we dont use tedders, here.

Baling = 39,000 60,000/75# bales

Stacking = 39,000

The total bill would be $104,250 to put it in a stack or barn field side. Especially if it was all in 30-50 acre fields, which would slow it down exponentially.

These numbers broken down would be:

1.73/ bale

46.33/ton

143.79/ acre

I ran these numbers in part to figure out cost inputs. Payroll, maintenance, fuel, twine, and depreciation are a moving target. Does anyone have a guess? There would be a lot of variables involved.

I don't have my quickbooks with me or I could tell you the cost, if costs are scalable.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

That's interesting to see these figures and thank you for taking the time to do so


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

IMHO, You mentioned that you have a back-up plan for spoiled hay (mulch), that is great. You have gotten some good (maybe even great) advice on equipment needed (including raise the roof on your new shed), from HT members so far. From what I have read I don't think the consensus is that you can't do 750 acres with your number of employees, but you might be under equipped.

If I was in your shoes, I think I would still consider a big square baler and/or round baler. Going by what some have posted on your weather conditions, I would want a way to remove the mulch hay ASAP and not be wearing out my small square balers (and associated equipment).

Whether 750 acres is 'too big' or not, as others have mentioned, the variables make it difficult to answer. I think with the right management and market(s), 750 acres could be done. I just wouldn't do it myself, because I like operating the equipment. Operating equipment is my relaxation (yes, that may sound corny, it is just the weird guy my wife married talking). 

Good luck and keep us posted,

Larry


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm really not qualified to give much, if any advice as we are such a small fry in the hay business.

With our start-up, we expected equipment expense, equipment failure, weather, labor, etc. When clearing our fields and selling "goat" hay for cheap, we had PLENTY of customers lined-up to buy and sold out between cuttings. Once we got our fields into great shape, offering very nice horse quality hay and a price that went with it, the buyers became more scarce. We sold out, just not as quickly. A glut of hay in our area coupled by "thoroughbred" horse owners who "feed 'em what's on sale" complicated that, along with many folks looking for high quality hay already have a supplier.

I said all that to say this - our biggest challenge is penetrating the hay market - our biggest surprise.

Do you have a ready hay market for your 750 acres of hay?

Good luck,
Bill


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I think the market for that much has is going to be tough. A lot of NY hay producers were shipping hay down into PA but the market here has been terrible. $150/ton is a good day at the sale...


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I would give my left.......ventricle..... for a $150/ton market price right now. Of course it wouldn't matter because we have long been sold out. We were at about 125 to 130/ton last summer and fall.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

Wow that's a lot of hay to do with the equipment you have. I'm doing 1500 acr of alfalfa and some orchard grass I have 2 self propelled swathers 2 3x4 big balers 2 rakes and a stinger stacker. And a 644k loader with a hay squeeze and I'm light on equipment . We start the first of June and it's every day till November. Have a 250acr orchard grass pivot we used to 3 tie that field with 2 balers I gave up doing that because it took way to long before I got the water back on. 
Are you buying new balers or used? I don't think you can even cut in a timely manner with one swing mower let alone bale that much. I'm all for pushing hard I don't think it's possible all I can say your going to find out.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> Wow that's a lot of hay to do with the equipment you have. I'm doing 1500 acr of alfalfa and some orchard grass I have 2 self propelled swathers 2 3x4 big balers 2 rakes and a stinger stacker. And a 644k loader with a hay squeeze and I'm light on equipment . We start the first of June and it's every day till November. When I lived in California I had 4 3 tie balers to do 450 acr. You will not even keep up cutting in a timely manner with one swing mower.


You get more then 2 cuttings don't you? I guess that's what he is going for there in NY. But first cutting is always the hardest as it is all ready at the same time for the most part.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

Yes here in Oregon I get 3 to 4 cutting of alfalfa and two cutting of grass. But yes I'm just like you every thing is ready at once it's tuff. What about fertlizer no juice no grow with grass? Have you figured that out I do 70 units of ammonia sulfate per cutting of grass


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## reckelhoff1000 (Jul 15, 2016)

If the 700 acres came available do you know anything about who was previously making it and the type and amount of equipment they had to manage that amount of hay in your climate?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

@Lostin55 I hear what you're saying on hay price, but you gotta remember I am in the land of 20K/acre land prices, and real estate taxes that are around $100/acre on bare ground...


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> I would give my left.......ventricle..... for a $150/ton market price right now. Of course it wouldn't matter because we have long been sold out. We were at about 125 to 130/ton last summer and fall.


Diito, hard to get to the buck and a quarter ton, here also.

Larry


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

PaMike said:


> @Lostin55 I hear what you're saying on hay price, but you gotta remember I am in the land of 20K/acre land prices, and real estate taxes that are around $100/acre on bare ground...


To be honest, I hadn't even thought of that. Good points. Farm ground here might get 4200/acre, if it's good ground. Most of the time, 3500 is more like it. 
Taxes are minimal. 
I forget the differences sometimes.


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

What is the market price for a 50lb square bale in New York? Just curious! I get $7 here, $8 to $8.50 delivered and stacked. That is Bermuda grass though and requires lots of N


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## jedp (Mar 18, 2017)

Eric, I'm rooting for you! Plan your work and work your plan. Totally different conditions and climate here but my partner and I put up 1600+ acres of alfalfa, 4-5 times over the course of a season. 90% of it makes the dairy quality spec. Granted, we green chopping half that on first and second, but produce big squares for all the later cuttings. We also manage 2 cuts/bale on 300 acres of grass and do all the spring tillage and planting work on 1200 acres of corn. Don't see the wives much but they like the money and it sure makes a fella sleep good! If you have a minute once you get rolling, you'll have to give us an update. Go get 'em!


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

$7 a bale seems to be the norm around these parts for first cut horse quality hay at 40-50 pounds a bale.thats $280-$350 a ton.. If I could buy it for $125 a ton it might pay to re-bale large rounds into small squares?? But the trucking kills any thought of that dream..
Small squares are money if you can get the stuff to dry and dont have to handle it much..


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Right now I don't get a call for anything above 3.50-4.00. we live in the land of the 25.00 round bale and that really pushes down the prices on every thing. Big square bales about max at 60-80.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I sure am glad that the brokers that show up pay for quality. Weren't for them we couldn't continue.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Right now I'm getting $4.50 for first $5.00 for 2nd and $5.00 for straw and $50.00 for baleage bales 4x4. That's picked up not delivered


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

That's good money, especially considering how the hay market is this year in the north east...

Do you have any livestock? Steers/cows are one way to convert lesser quality hay into something sellable.

Might want to consider that as an option if you get behind in your hay making and the standing hay is a little on the mature side....


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I've been wanting to get a small beef herd together, I just haven't had the time haha. I've been moving a load of hay everyday and working on the new barn all winter. On top of waiting for the ground to dry to spread fertilizer haha. Everyday it's raining up here haha


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I put $3.50 on first cut here with no issue moving it. $5 on the 2nd it moves but the people that don't take the time to look at it think it's to expensive. We have rounds here dry & baleage listed at $25-$35. Mine are at $50 whether dry or baleage. That is 2nd cutting.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Ohh nice, where are you located ?


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## youngbaler (Apr 9, 2015)

I planted 40 ac of hay a few years back planning to small square bale it all for the horsey folks. After the first year I learned there isn't nearly enough premium "here" for the small squares. So I got myself a good round baler with net, almost all my regular horse customers figured out how convenient bigger bales are and I really didn't lose them as customers.. If it where me I'd probably start baling with the small bales and use the round baler at the same time to get it done. 1/3 of your crop in a high quality round bale i would think would still be worth mor than mulch hay in sm sq....You might endup converting some customers over to rounds. In my situation 120$/ ton hay in rounds is better for me than 140$/ton in smalls. my area there are to many people who Bale there backyard or road ditch and sell it for 2 bucks driving the price down. Good luck to you, it does sound like you have a much better market condition.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you and it's under consideration. And yes I have a very big market here haha. I'm very fortunate


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## bensbales (Jul 18, 2011)

My advice would be to sub lease some of the first cutting to a dairy farm. Sounds like you have a large demand for mulch so I would consider round baleing some late first cut then rebaleing later. These are some of the strategies that have worked for me when i doubled my farming acres 3 years ago. My round bales were sold as bedding hay so u didn't rebale them. Best of luck to you!


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Most of y'all know what I'd do. Fence it and put 300-400 steers and hay surplus fields. I look at way too many $20-$30 round bales for sale. If you're selling bales that cheap, just fence it and put cattle on it. Depending on their fertilizer inputs and yields, to say conservatively $5 profit per round bale, a beef will make me more than $50 profit per acre.

I only bale because I know the value of spring surplus and having stuff on hand for droughts or cold weather. I'm not knocking the bales I do sell, it's nice having a little supplement.


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## Cmm (Jun 5, 2016)

Better get off the puter and on the tractor
With 750ac

Sounds like you have it figured all out

As my dad says

"You've done the easy part"!!!!!

What's that dad?

Talking lol!!!!!

Don't compare any experience you have in grain row crop farming to hay farming

Might as well compare it to Chinese widgets


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

Research Standlee. You'd likely be better suited to that type of business model with that much hay to harvest/process. With that type of model, you could have a processing facility to "re-manufacture" the large round/square bales into more manageable bales and feed products, that would facilitate being able to harvest in more financially prudent methods. I like your go big or go home attitude, just think the business model side needs a little revamping.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I'd put cattle on part of it get it down to a manageable number of acres.
Then feed out my lower quality hay sell the good stuff.


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## Cmm (Jun 5, 2016)

^^^^

Winner winner chick dinner

Especially w current prices

Be a homer run


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## Dirtboy (Apr 5, 2015)

The window in south eastern New York has been very small lately. 750 acres I just don't see it


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## reckelhoff1000 (Jul 15, 2016)

Update???? How's it going??


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

reckelhoff1000 said:


> Update???? How's it going??


probably no time for HayTalk.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

If his weather anything like mine he has lots of time.


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## nanuk (Aug 29, 2011)

eric1066, any updates?

I was custom baling for a guy, 300 acres, but we only got one cut up here.

I would roll up between 1000-1300 round bales and due to one reason or another, I needed about 60 hours.

I would suggest you get a round baler with NetWrap, and be prepared to roll up at least half your hay on the first year. Even if you only get 3 bales/ac, at $60, that is still the price of a new JD569, or nearly so.

and it can save you a lot of time dealing with a mess if you can't get the small squares off in time.

a JD569 can roll up 27Ton an hour. And if it is new, the JD warranty gets you a replacement during breakdowns.

just thinking out loud here


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

So I know everybody is curious as to how it is all going for me up here. We've reduced down to 400 acres and just trying to do the best we can. But I have some questions for the group, first who's using " hay conditioners " and which is the best one ? I was looking at the ag shield with the Tedders on it. Second self propelled bale wagon new holland or the bale baron ? Third how big of a enclosed pole barn to fit all the hay ? Currently just putting it in haymows. Thank you for all your feed back and all opinions are considered


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

A stack wagon should keep up with two to three small balers, if it has a competent operator in it. That is provided your not running over a mile or two to the stack.
Baling on the dew, here, a wagon can keep up with three to four balers. Grass hay can be baled all day here and the wagon won't keep up with that many balers.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

eric1066 said:


> Third how big of a enclosed pole barn to fit all the hay ?


I'd not place all my eggs or hay in one basket. If you should ever have a hay fire, or electrical issue or even vandalism, all that hay is gonna be gone.

I stack mine in three separate hoop buildings, one for first cutting, another for second cutting then a third for 3rd and 4th cutting.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I would be running two balers for now unless I would need a third


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

eric1066 said:


> Ohh wow, ok that's a very interesting running down on equipment needed to get the acreage done. And I do appreciate everyone's input. What are you thoughts on your bale baron ? I've looked at that option but where I live I'm alone because everybody dies it the old fashion way


How many acres are you doing at present ? Some seasons I will have up 1200 acres laying down at 1 time , I know what it takes . Small squares ? you better buy a few more balers and a good swather .


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

For the start of the 2018 season I will have 400 acres, the question I have is which is better, bale wagon or bale baron ? We plan on buying another baler and a swather.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

eric1066 said:


> For the start of the 2018 season I will have 400 acres, the question I have is which is better, bale wagon or bale baron ? We plan on buying another baler and a swather.


How many acres have you been doing ? I could not tell you which is a better machine coz I dont just do 4x4x8's and big rounds .I used to do little bales for Florida in my cattle pots but for 700+ acres there would be 6 balers running just saying this was alfalfa which is more hard to deal with than grass . Good luck on the venture , keep in mind nature can rule .


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Comparing the Bale wagon to the Baron is like comparing Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. They both do the job and do it well. My vote is for the Bale wagon. A guy down the road from me wouldn't give up his Baron for love nor money.
I think it comes down to how much help you have and how efficiently you need to get through the field.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lostin55 said:


> Comparing the Bale wagon to the Baron is like comparing Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. They both do the job and do it well. My vote is for the Bale wagon. A guy down the road from me wouldn't give up his Baron for love nor money.
> I think it comes down to how much help you have and how efficiently you need to get through the field.


Come on now....have you driven a ford lately? Just kiddin folks.....I saw the fender of that Dodge (excuse me, Ram) in the pics.....heck, it's the only reason I ain't out there, figured I might take a likin' to it  course if it'd been a Powerstroke.....

My vote, if the fields are all very close....stackwagon, hands down.....build your barns accordingly


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

I have a recon 300 with the spin spreader attachment. The machine does what they claim. Crimps the stock every 1"-1 1/2", the spin spreader spreads the alfalfa and grass out in a nice even layer once you find the right ground speed and right speed on the spinners.
I don't crimp with reconn anymore because of the dual crimpers on my cutter. It has 4 different settings for space between the rollers, I use the widest setting just to pick the swath up to get it to the spin spreader. When I did crimp, it cut my drying time down by a day to day and a half. With the spin spreader, I''m baling on the evening of day 3 after cutting in a 70/30-60/40 alfalfa/grass mixture and 3-4 ton an acre crop.
The downsides of the machine are: can only do 1swath at a time, you have 2 things knocking some of the leaves off the alfalfa- 1 through the crimper 2 the spin spreader throwing the hay out but not near as bad as the crimper. The longer you leave the swath after cutting, the more leaves you'll lose. I use the reconn right behind the cutter.
I'd rather lose some leaves and have good hay than having rained on hay that is alot lower quality. 
I think a good quality tedder would be better machine to have because of doing more swaths at 1 time. A buddy purchased a cheaper quality tedder that does 2 swaths at a time, still can't get it to spread the swath out as even as the recon.
The recon works no if's, ands or buts, but I would like to use a high quality tedder to compare them.
Just some info for ya.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I thank you for all that info, and will take everybodies view points into consideration


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Where are you going to sell all this hay?


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Come on now....have you driven a ford lately? Just kiddin folks.....I saw the fender of that Dodge (excuse me, Ram) in the pics.....heck, it's the only reason I ain't out there, figured I might take a likin' to it  course if it'd been a Powerstroke.....
> My vote, if the fields are all very close....stackwagon, hands down.....build your barns accordingly


I am equal opportunity when it comes to vehicles. There is a representative of each brand of vehicle in my driveway. Granted, I like the Cummins. The 1/2 ton is a Ford, the service truck a Chevy.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

i have a large customer base already from selling local hay for farmers in my area. The problem all of my customers say is that there isn't a large enough operation to support there needs. Which hopefully I will have for the start of 2018 season. So the market is there I just need the hay, hence I'm trying to compile Information to make educated decisions on buying equipment that going to make our operation as efficient As possible.


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## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

So we're in North East pa, think our climates are probably fairly similar. We did around 160 acres of first this year, just finished around july 8th. We were only able to bale about 6 days all of june. The last hay we got in, was stacked separately, due to its maturity. We might be able to sell it for horse hay in the dead of winter. 
Seems a lot of the first cutting around here is still standing in the field. We have had so much rain. We also cant run stack wagons, our ground is never dry enough to let them sit on the ground for more than an hour, or they'll get ground moisture on them. We have to do everything with kicker wagons.
It was all we could do to get our acreage done without rain this year. We run with one 13ft moco, a 6 star tedder, double hitch rolabor rake and a single small sqaure baler. We have 6 kicker wagons and it is all the guys can do to keep up with the baler. We also have a 4x5 round baler to help clean up the fields when rain is coming. We need to have around 900 rolls to feed for the winter anyway. Try to wait for last of the first cutting to use the round baler, but seems i was pulling it out around 5 o'clock every time we baled this year because they changed the forecast. Would have both balers running in the fields trying to get it up. 
All of our small sqaures go to the race tracks in jersey and long island, so if gets any rain, or is too mature, they won't take it.
Good luck with the acreage, how did you maker out with this year's first cutting?


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