# 24x40 pole building will it be big enough?



## whitmerlegacyfarm

Hey all i'm getting ready to build an equipment shed to try and get all my hay equipment out of the weather. I'm hoping i can fit it all in, i have 2 NH Small square balers, rolarbar rake, tedder, NH 479 haybine and also a NH self propelled 1469 HAYBINE. Im pretty sure i can fit this all in just thought i'd look for any advice before i start to build it this fall. Is 10ft high enough or should i go w/ 12ft ceiling? The SP Haybine should fit even w/ the 10ft height, just wonder if i can fit a wagon of stacked hay in if i only go 10ft. I'm closing in 3 sides and letting one of the 40ft sides open.

Of coarse i know they aren't ever big enough just limited funds and fill to level an area.


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## gradyjohn

I don't think so. Make a scale of each and one of the barn and see. You might have to pack them in but won't be able to get them out quickly.


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## Vol

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Hey all i'm getting ready to build an equipment shed to try and get all my hay equipment out of the weather. I'm hoping i can fit it all in, i have 2 NH Small square balers, rolarbar rake, tedder, NH 479 haybine and also a NH self propelled 1469 HAYBINE. Im pretty sure i can fit this all in just thought i'd look for any advice before i start to build it this fall. Is 10ft high enough or should i go w/ 12ft ceiling? The SP Haybine should fit even w/ the 10ft height, just wonder if i can fit a wagon of stacked hay in if i only go 10ft. I'm closing in 3 sides and letting one of the 40ft sides open.
> 
> Of coarse i know they aren't ever big enough just limited funds and fill to level an area.


I would make the shed at least 60 feet long as you will not get the equipment listed in 40 linear feet. 12 feet high is better, but you can manage at 10....measure wagon bed heigth and then multiply however many bales you stack on wagon vertically by 14" and divide by 12" and that will tell you what heigth you need. It is a real PITA to deal with equipment stacked in front of each other. I would also consider the future....could I stack round bales in this shed?? could I stack square hay in this shed??.....plan for flexibility. I would make the knee walls at least 12' high along the backwall....you will be glad you did someday. Clearspan trusses.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Yeah, I'd definately go 12' high or 14' if possible. If you can't afford to make it more than 40' long, then add another section to it later, but don't go 10' high as it's impractical to increase the height after it's built (although I once did that for a customer). 
I have a 26' x 30' barn with 11'-6" ceiling and a 20' door and it's far too small. I can only fit my SP-1499, my M-7040 and my MX-8 bush hog in it now. Luckily, one of my customers lets me use the ground floor of his bank barn and I keep my balers in there. Still have to tarp a bunch of my equipment.


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## somedevildawg

I am building a 40 x 80 for my equipment and was thinking of attaching lean to's to each side for 80 x 80, thought i would use it to store hay in as well as equipment, that was until some kids came by playing with firecrackers and caught the rounds on fire! After that experience, I think I'll pass on having my equipment and hay stored in the same barn! Burnt so fast.....no way you could get that equipment out....just call the insurance company and hope you have enuf


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## Vol

Whitmerlegacy, I might add that you might want to consider putting up the poles, trusses, and the roof this year....and then enclose the sides next year. That way you could possibly afford a bigger machinery shed and at least have a roof over your equipment now.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Yup, great idea. You're dry from everything but windblown rain. Then enclose the sides from ground-up as money allows. 
You be surpised how many building materials suppliers will sell overstock siding or unclaimed orders to you for 50% off. You could even tarp the west side to keep most of the wind/rain out.


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## rjmoses

Rule #1 of equipment buildings -- They are roomy the first month after they're finished, just right the second month, and waaaay too small the third!

Figure out what you need now and double it! Example: The incremental cost to go from 30x50 to 40x70 usually isn't that much.

Ralph


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## swmnhay

rjmoses said:


> Rule #1 of equipment buildings -- They are roomy the first month after they're finished, just right the second month, and waaaay too small the third!
> 
> Figure out what you need now and double it! Example: The incremental cost to go from 30x50 to 40x70 usually isn't that much.
> 
> Ralph


Ditto That.

Going a little wider or longer doesn't add all that much.

Put up 60 x 90 last yr.I did alot of number cruncing and found that the 60' wide was most cost effective pr sq ft for me vs 50' or 80' wide.

Figure out what you can afford and build it twice that big!

I bit the bullet and did it like I'm only going to do this once.No regrets only that I wish it was bigger.My acreage is land locked and it was all the space i could build on.I had a larger shed ordered before finding out I had to stay 20' from property line.


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## ARD Farm

I'd take a hard look at a Clearspan building, either Truss Arch or conventional hoop arch. Your cost per square foot is about 1/3 of a pole type building plus in many jurisdictions, a Clearspan isn't considered a permanent structure so it's not liable for property taxes.

I put one up on an engineered site because the grade sloped so I installed a retaining wall and backfilled to level, a 45 wide x 100 feet long x 16 feet high (to the truss center for ledd than 10 grand, sire imptovement included and my wife and I erected all the framework ourselves (with a front end loader on one of the tractors...

Mine has a metal roll up, commercial style overhead door at one end and man doors at each end. All my implements plus 2 tractors go inside plus around 50 rounds and a couple hundred squares. Thats hay plus 2 large frame Kubota's, a 575 square bailer, a 760 rounder, 3 mower conditioners, 2 rakes, a snowblower, my wifes buggy, 3 lawnmowers, 2 rototillers and a couple barn cats.

If necessary, you can drive in or back in a 13'6" rtactor trailer and load inside.

The cover shows no wear after 7 years (it's guaranteed for 12 BTW).

Because many jursidictions consider it a temporary building, lot lines and setbacks don't apply. Mine is 'secured' to the ground with screw in augers set in concrete in sonotubes, every 8 feet. The augers fasten to the truss frame via turnbuckles. It's never moved even in high winds, snow don't collect on the roof, it slides right off and the center top is a translucent panel so no additional lighting is necessary.

Check 'em out...... www.Farmteck.com


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## swmnhay

*I'm not a big fan of the hoop barns.*

*HERE.*

*They blow away.*

*We pay prop tax on them like any other building.*

*When they price them they like to price just the building then you have to add the ends,pony walls and labor.So do your homework when comparing them with pole shed.*

*Hoop barns really jump in price when you get wider.*


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## urednecku

I've had suggested to me to pick the size you wanna build, then stake it out on the ground with string & park your equipment 'inside' to make sure you have room to park, and move around.


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## ARD Farm

swmnhay said:


> *I'm not a big fan of the hoop barns.*
> 
> *HERE.*
> 
> *They blow away.*
> 
> *We pay prop tax on them like any other building.*
> 
> *When they price them they like to price just the building then you have to add the ends,pony walls and labor.So do your homework when comparing them with pole shed.*
> 
> *Hoop barns really jump in price when you get wider.*


Must be windy up north, more windy than here even though this is supposedly prime country for windmill generation......

Like I said previously, you have to check local zoning or jurisdictional laws, here they aren't considered taxable structures.

Mine came complete in the base price with end walls, overhead door and vents. I added the 2 man doors, thas it.

Mine isn't pony walled, it's on 2x12x20 ..40 retention PT planks, tied together with steel plates and anchored every 8 feet. in sonotubes filled with quick-crete.

For me, the RE tax savings alone makes it a viable alternative. I piss away enough tax money keeping the entitled in Cadillacs.

The only labor involved was my wife and I and 1 DeWalt 18 Volt drill-driver. I had a 'cover party' to put on the one piece cover, on a calm day, with plenty of beer and food. Made it on my birthday. Took 12 men, half crocked to pull it over.

The last addition I put on my machine shop, minus the floor, cost more than the Clearspan and it was only 20x30 with 10 foot high ceiling trusses, hardly enough for storage of implements. Fine for storage of machine tools however.


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## swmnhay

ARD Farm said:


> Must be windy up north, more windy than here even though this is supposedly prime country for windmill generation......
> 
> Like I said previously, you have to check local zoning or jurisdictional laws, here they aren't considered taxable structures.
> 
> Mine came complete in the base price with end walls, overhead door and vents. I added the 2 man doors, thas it.
> 
> Mine isn't pony walled, it's on 2x12x20 ..40 retention PT planks, tied together with steel plates and anchored every 8 feet. in sonotubes filled with quick-crete.
> 
> For me, the RE tax savings alone makes it a viable alternative. I piss away enough tax money keeping the entitled in Cadillacs.
> 
> The only labor involved was my wife and I and 1 DeWalt 18 Volt drill-driver. I had a 'cover party' to put on the one piece cover, on a calm day, with plenty of beer and food. Made it on my birthday. Took 12 men, half crocked to pull it over.
> 
> The last addition I put on my machine shop, minus the floor, cost more than the Clearspan and it was only 20x30 with 10 foot high ceiling trusses, hardly enough for storage of implements. Fine for storage of machine tools however.


Windmill country here also.I'm surrounded by them.I get to see the flicker in my window and listen to them make noise.ANNOYING!I'm located on the southern edge of what is called the Buffallo Ridge in SW MN.The first windmills have been up about 30 yrs??
http://www.lakebentonminnesota.com/index.asp?Type=NONE&SEC={B62CE668-CE41-4427-BBCF-D3D873A5A3C9}

HERE it seems like we get some straight line winds every 2-3 yrs in the 80-100 mph range and the hoop barns catch heck more so than the pole sheds altough they can blow away also.

There is alot of hoop barns in this area.I've helped retarp and rebuild a few!

Some brands are not insurable HERE.


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## mlappin

In our county hoop buildings are tax exempt, in my cousins county they are not.

We have four, two 38x72x19.5' and one 42x96x17 and one 42x96x19. Three are for hay and one is equipment. the smaller ones will hold 300 4x5 round bales stacked on their ends. The large one will hold around 500 4x5's stacked on end. The equipment one atm has a 16 row White forward fold planter, a 30 foot Hiniker bean planter, two tandem axle grain trucks with 20' beds, two Massey Ferguson Rotary combines, a MF 4880 four wheel drive tractor and a MF 8160 FWA tractor in it. The taller 42x96 for hay gained the extra height from using the 2'x2'x6' concrete blocks instead of the ground anchors.

P.S. Also have the ten foot Oliver superior drill I use to plant hay stored in the equipment building.


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## ARD Farm

Being the frugal person I am (LOL), comparing the per square foot cost of a pole structure versus a Clearspan without costing in taxes, it's a better deal for me.

That may or may not be the case in every scenario and I'm not a carpenter but I can erect a Clearspan myself, or I should say my wife and I, an important (and cost saving) factor.

Asthetically, they aren't the prettiest face on the block but from a practicality and value standpoint, they are a winner here.

My partner has one as well and put a camper trailer inside one for a field office.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Thanks all for the input i think i'm going to go the route of stringin it up and see if equipment fits, right now i'm just running out of time I'm building this myself so i can always go bigger down the rd just have to find more fill to put behind it lol. And i willd just shoot a overhang off the back side. Thanks all


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## JD3430

I usually save projects like that for the winter. Got sooo much to do on the fields!!!!


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## slowzuki

We have a machine shed that is open on the long side, so at most 2 pieces are in each bay. Not sure I'd like to move to the have to move everything to get to the back style. Ours is 24 deep with 3x 12 ft bays and 2x 10 ft bays.

Moving along the building:
10 ft - square baler and rake
12 ft - 4 basket tedder plus junk
12 ft - wagon with hay or other stuff stored on it, sometimes the tedder and rake spend the winter on this wagon
12 ft - 400 ish small squares bales of sheep hay on pallets
10 ft - disc mower conditioner (mounted style) or some years 50 or so 4x4 round bales

Make it taller. Ours is on a hill so the first bay is only 7 ft sloping to the last bay is 12 ft or so. The 12 ft one is the only one tall enough to get a short load of hay in and safely get our 100 hp tractor in during the winter.


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## swmnhay

JD3430 said:


> I usually save projects like that for the winter. Got sooo much to do on the fields!!!!


Ground gets kinda hard here in winter.LOL.Alot of pole sheds still go up tho with ice bits on augers.


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## slowzuki

With our rocks here and clay soil, post holes sunk after the ground freezes better have cement put around the posts because the disturbed soil turns to soup in the spring. Neighbours dropped their tractor into a fall dug water line trench in the spring after driving on the frozen backfill all winter not thinking about it. Dropped just like they had driven into an open trench!



swmnhay said:


> Ground gets kinda hard here in winter.LOL.Alot of pole sheds still go up tho with ice bits on augers.


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## ForemanTX

I built a 20x40 last year to keep the hay equipment in and its not enough wish I went with a 30x60,mine is 10ft at tallest and with cutter on it barely fits under it. Now another problem is with only 10ft bays I have to pick up mu cutter long ways with loader and pu it in side,free span would have been great. Im going to build a 30x40 shop next year with a lean to on one side and make it were I can back my cutter in without any trouble.

Maybe this can give you an idea what a 20x40 will hold,there is one bay missing in photo but its the same size as others.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Well my habyine is a little over 12ft wide so i'm curious how to lay out my posts on the side i'm wanting to leave open to pull equipment into. My thoughts were to do a 16' opening in the center of building and then 12ft openings on both ends. I realize w/ my 6x6's posts i will loose about a foot to each opening.

So i guess my question is how do i span the big 16' opening? I'm using 24ft trusses 4ft on centers. Can i get away with (2) -2x12x16ft for my ledger boards and notch my 6x6 posts out and set them in the notches?


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## JD3430

Yes. I frame garage openings for 16' overhead doors on residential garages with 2) 2x12's and it'll work. Might deflect a hair. Better would be a 3) 2x12 or a paralam (exspecially if you'll hang doors from the beam), but you need to keep untreated paralam out of the rain. Treated paralam are more expensive.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

So any idea what a Paralam might cost me for a 16ft? If it's treated? Cause it will be exposed to the elements, not getting fancy on this equipment shed.


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> So any idea what a Paralam might cost me for a 16ft? If it's treated? Cause it will be exposed to the elements, not getting fancy on this equipment shed.


Just use treated 2x12'. Cheaper. Plenty strong. Treated paralam would be 3x as much.
If you're really concerned, get 2x12 in stronger than #2.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

How would i do (3) 2x12x16 on a 6x6 post? I figured on running a diagonal brace out 4ft from the post to the 2x12 beam, so that would technically support 2 of the 3 trusses that bearing down on the beam. I had a buddy of mine tell me that if i used 2x12's i was really pushin it and it would probably start to sag in in 8 yrs or more.


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## JD3430

Att 3 pieces of the beam don't have to fully sit on the post. If 2 of the 2x12's sit on the post and the 3rd doesn't or only partially does, it still adds strength to the beam.
I can't gaurantee you that it won't sag 1/2", but you'll never be able to detect it. I built my own barn and used a huge pc of engineered lumber over a 18' span and guess what? it still sagged a little.
I just took down a 30 yr old 2 car garage with a 16' door and it had a 2) 2x10 beam over the opening and had about a 3/4" sag. 2x12's are much stronger. Just make sure you use carriage bolts with nuts & washers to hold it together. try to find #1 treated.
If you really want to overkill it and spend more money, use a paralam. Go to your local supplier, give him span and roof load and let him calculate a paralam.
I'm a builder when not a hay farmer and I wouldn't use anything more that 2x12's for a barn. There's very little weight from the roof.
Another option is to build a flitch beam which is thin piece of steel sandwiched between the 2x12's, but that isn't really necessary for a pole barn.


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## Fowllife

I would think that what you use as a header over your door would depend on a lot of factors, mainly snow load and snow drift. HERE we stopped using (2) 2x12's for garage door headers 20 years ago because we realized they deflect too much. It's either a flitch beam (rarely) or a pair of 1 3/4"x11 1/4" LVL's. HERE I also wouldn't waste my money on treated lumber for a header. Almost all of the lumber companys only stock yellow pine for that length of 2x12 which is much stronger the SPF and is generally #1. If you do use treated though make sure you use the proper fastners since some treatment types are VERY corrosive.

Personally, I would use (3) yellow pine 2x12's for what you are doing. I would say LVL's if it was covered though. Thats what I would use if I was building for someone here, or spec if I was designing it for someone considering our snow loads. But, if I building a cheap shelter for myself and didn't have any fascia/soffit/gutter/ or other steel to kink I may cheat a little.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Got a price on LVLs, im goin to prob just coat them,with motor oil or a waterproofing membrane i have,that i use in my tile showers. material cost is only comin in at like 3k thats mainly just frame work n complete roof with tin. I then am goin to put up poplur boards on the sides n coat them in a stain or something.


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## JD3430

Fowllife said:


> I would think that what you use as a header over your door would depend on a lot of factors, mainly snow load and snow drift. HERE we stopped using (2) 2x12's for garage door headers 20 years ago because we realized they deflect too much. It's either a flitch beam (rarely) or a pair of 1 3/4"x11 1/4" LVL's. HERE I also wouldn't waste my money on treated lumber for a header. Almost all of the lumber companys only stock yellow pine for that length of 2x12 which is much stronger the SPF and is generally #1. If you do use treated though make sure you use the proper fastners since some treatment types are VERY corrosive.


Flitch won't work with treated. The treatment will eventually eat the steel. HERE most treated lumber is SYP, not SPF



> Personally, I would use (3) yellow pine 2x12's for what you are doing.


That's my suggestion, but I'd buy them in #1 treated if they were subject to weather. They're cheap and last a while outside.
I used a coulpe untreated hem-fir 2x12's on a barn way back at customer's insistence, and they were gone in about 7 years. Customer even said he sprayed them with preservative. Bugs & moisture got between the 2x's and ate em out like cancer.

Whitmerlegacy,

Can't go wrong with LVLs, just keep them dry.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Yea i think im just go with the LVLs, am i ok to coat the LVLs with a paint or something to shed the elements? I will prob just coat them with waterproofing like i said, i cant see that hurting them an all. I used this rite over OSB on a small chicken coop roof n its holding up well.


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## JD3430

Good plan, but put your paint on all sides before you put them together.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Thanks I will make sure i do that. Looks like this should cost about 3500.00


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## dwarner

http://www.fbibuildi...uildings.com/�� Don't know if you are still figureing or if you have seen this before but this company has a planner that you can set "implements" or hay or whatever. you can change the sizes of the building, implement, or anything really. It is sure to waste a night at the computer.


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## urednecku

Dang-blast it dwarner, now I got 1 more thing to wast time with.

Thanks, that's a neat planner. I'm planning on a pole barn soon to park equipment in, that'll come in handy.


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## slowzuki

Our machine shed was farmer built. Untreated poles in topsoil/ clay till soil, bays are up to 13 ft wide. Headers are 3 nail laminated 2x6 laid flat( no clue why), 1 2x6 on edge. Did I mention we have 40 psf snow load here? It deflected about 15" across the span and every 2nd post either sunk or rotted off.

I have fixed 2 of the 5 bays by jacking the roof with 2 loaders, cutting the posts off, then sinking creosote timbers. We then add tri-angle bracing to reduce the effective span, and replace the on edge board with a deeper section. We can't got to 2x12 because the roof is so low. I already can't get my larger tractor in.

I'm looking for a way to raise the building easily but I don't think it will happen. Cheaper to tear it down and put up a tarp building.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

I'm considering going 30x40 now but instead of doing a lean to and coming in from the 40' side putting a 14' door on each side of the 30' side off to one side. Thinking i would back everything in and still have room to put 2 wagons back to back still if rains coming. Just back one each from each 14' opening on each side, i think this way would keep less rain and snow from blowing in if i completely can close it up and i would save money by not needing headers because the truss would span the opening then.

Am i correct by thinking the truss is rated to span that distance since i'm coming in from the 30' side?


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> *Our machine shed was farmer built. Untreated poles in topsoil/ clay till soil, bays *are up to 13 ft wide. Headers are 3 nail laminated 2x6 laid flat( no clue why), 1 2x6 on edge. Did I mention we have 40 psf snow load here? It deflected about 15" across the span and every 2nd post either sunk or rotted off.
> 
> I have fixed 2 of the 5 bays by jacking the roof with 2 loaders, cutting the posts off, then sinking creosote timbers. We then add tri-angle bracing to reduce the effective span, and replace the on edge board with a deeper section. We can't got to 2x12 because the roof is so low. I already can't get my larger tractor in.
> 
> I'm looking for a way to raise the building easily but I don't think it will happen. Cheaper to tear it down and put up a tarp building.


I just restored one of those. Untreated 6x6's sunk in muck. What didn't rot off settled. When I got there, the whole barn was sitting on its' skirt boards!!!
We jacked it up using a backhoe FEL curl on the bucket and blocked it back up. I dug up all the rotted tips. The only rotted part was right at the surface of the ground. Rest of the post underground was still healthy!.
I sistered posts to the part above ground that was healthy with a series of 5/8" galv lag bolts/washers/nuts. We worked our way around the perimeter and then did the inside partitions.
What a job that was. Strangest part was barn was only about 25 yrs old. Treated lumber was common & plentiful 25 yrs ago, but they used untreated locust!! No concrete at bottoms of posts, either.


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## slowzuki

If its like our barn, they would have had to spend more on the treated posts than the whole rest of the building. Labour was a plenty, materials were poles off their own ground.


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## Fowllife

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> I'm considering going 30x40 now but instead of doing a lean to and coming in from the 40' side putting a 14' door on each side of the 30' side off to one side. Thinking i would back everything in and still have room to put 2 wagons back to back still if rains coming. Just back one each from each 14' opening on each side, i think this way would keep less rain and snow from blowing in if i completely can close it up and i would save money by not needing headers because the truss would span the opening then.
> 
> Am i correct by thinking the truss is rated to span that distance since i'm coming in from the 30' side?


With your wording I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I will make a guess. With a typical gable truss the only place that you need support it on the low eave sides. You would not need a header for an opening on either gable end. The only framing you would need would be whatever you would need for the door itself.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

I had a a lot of fill brought in to level a building pad up so, i'm waiting till spring to start this project. So for now i started to play around with FBIbuilding website planner. I just need to get accurate dimensions on all my equipment so i can plug it in and create the pieces of equipment. Plan is as of now to do a 30x40 being 12ft high, putting a door way on each side of the 30ft sides. I will put them both tight to the front side of building to allow me to pull in and stack the equipment side by side. And still hopfully have room to pull wagons/tractors straight threw. Once i get the plan designed on FBiBuildings.com i will see if i can post on here and see what you all think


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## Lazy J

We have a 48 x 56 building that came with our farm. Based on my experience with it I would say that you will not be happy with a 20 x 40 building for your needs.

We built a 64 x 100 x 18 building this fall for equipment storage and a shop. We have all but three pieces of our equipment inside it right now and "wish" we would/could have gone 20 or 40 feet longer.

The moral of just about all building stories I hear is: Build it bigger than you think you need!


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## swmnhay

_Compare prices on different sizes.Adding a few ft doesn't add that much to total price because you already have both ends.Or adding a little width will give you alot more sq ft._

_The saying I always heard when putting up a building is figure out what you can afford and build it twice that big.







_


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## Fowllife

Cy's advise is spot on, check several different building sizes. I just put up a 32x56 with 16' eaves. It was only $250 more to go from 14' to 16' eave hieght. The SF cost was also quit a bit cheaper with this size conpared to a 40' building just due to what the supplier had in stock vs having to order.

Yeah it's nice sometimes to have one big building, but there is also something to be said about not having all your eggs in one basket.


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## JD3430

I have "free" access to a huge barn, but can hardly use any of its' space. It's a bank barn and the second floor is pretty weak. First floor has very low door height-maybe 9 feet, so most bigger equipment wont fit. Talk about frustrating.....


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## R Ball

I had a 30x70 3 sided pole shed built about 3 years ago by Blitz Builders. Heck they done it 
In a day and a half. Cost $15k it's great except I should have went 36x90. The height is 
11 feet to get under the front then inside I can stack 3 high 4x4 rounds no problem.
Hence I have 3 car ports on the farm and keep my disc bine at the house a couple miles away in the winter. Oh well, just never new how much equipment a guy can accumulate
In a short time.


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