# Manual square bale bundler???



## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

This coming fall I plan to buy a bale bandit, but this coming season it's the bale thrower and people stacking in the barn.

I want to cut out the bale loading back on trailers for delivery by hand. This got me to thinking what if I built a box where I and my workers stacked the bales in the box then banded then. This would eliminated having to throw the bales up to the top of the stack one at a time by hand, and also since I could stack them with a loader, and when it comes time to load them for delivery I can load them with the tractor. What's your thoughts?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Too time consuming.....my thoughts


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## JpJFarms (May 28, 2015)

You will need to compress the bales in the bundle before strapping them or it will be a disaster when you try to handle them. Banding may seem right but when you pick up the bundle, the weight of it will cause the strapping to sink into the bales causing it to be extremely loose. Just my thought. When you're ready for a bandit, let me know I have a good one I'm going to part with.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks guys I am going to build a table with a hydraulic ram one one side that will compress the bales, JpJ why are you parting with it?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If you are very serious about the bandit after this season, why not just deal with hand loading for this year rather than trying to invent a contraption that will take time to fine tune and you won't need by the end of the year? If throwing to the top of your stack is a problem, an elevator would solve that and have more potential use in the future.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Well my plan is to get a bandit this year, but if I could figure out a way to deal with the hay for two more season I could use the money I plan to spend on the bandit to build another barn, which I really need more. I don't see it being that had to build. I can get all my metal at the scrap yard. They put back all the good metal instead of scraping it. I would build it horizontal with one or two hydraulic cylinders. Pretty much like a trash compactor in your home but much larger.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Then I could build my new barn this year and buy the bandit the following year


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## JpJFarms (May 28, 2015)

Nate, changing scopes of my operation. Won't be doing many square bales in the field if things go as planned.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Nate, storage first bandit second, kinda agree with Dawg and 8350 on the rest


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Yeah I know built a 36'x72'x16' this past year. Building a 50'x100' this year. I think the manual bale handler will save me a lot of time. One because my help has a hard time getting a stable stack 16' tall and I need to use all the room I have. Two I don't have to load 300 bales by hand when I deliever hay like I have, and three we don't have to unload them by hand at my customers. Plus my customers resell my hay and they sometimes won't have to load there customs by hand if they buy a bundle at a time. I feel it may take 3-5 mins longer per bundle up front but the saving on the back end is far greater.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

If loading out trailers is your concern, a grapple would take the labor out of it. Just stack in the barn to fit the grapple. Even if you have to move some bales on the trailer to tie the load or to fit the trailer, you have eliminated the labor to get the bales on top and eliminated making bundles.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

JMT said:


> If loading out trailers is your concern, a grapple would take the labor out of it. Just stack in the barn to fit the grapple. Even if you have to move some bales on the trailer to tie the load or to fit the trailer, you have eliminated the labor to get the bales on top and eliminated making bundles.


This worked well for one of my customers that picks hay up when we are baling. His trailer was the perfect size to take two grab worth of bales set lengthwise on his trailer (total of 6 bales long). Then it was just put a few layers on and strap it down. We had him loaded with 120 bales in less than 10 minutes (and that includes the learning curve of doing it for the first time).


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

How many bales would go into a bundle?


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

21 bales to a bundle


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nate926 said:


> Yeah I know built a 36'x72'x16' this past year. Building a 50'x100' this year. I think the manual bale handler will save me a lot of time. One because my help has a hard time getting a stable stack 16' tall and I need to use all the room I have. Two I don't have to load 300 bales by hand when I deliever hay like I have, and three we don't have to unload them by hand at my customers. Plus my customers resell my hay and they sometimes won't have to load there customs by hand if they buy a bundle at a time. I feel it may take 3-5 mins longer per bundle up front but the saving on the back end is far greater.


Who's going to operate the stationary bundler? If it's the same people who can't build a solid stack of hay on the ground, what kind of bundles do you expect them to produce?

My time is most valuable when the hay is being made, least valuable later in the year. Is taking longer to get hay in the barn but less time to get it out a trade that makes sense?

Is your buyer going to pay you more for bundles? If not, it doesn't matter if you're making it easier for them to load back out.

I'm not saying it won't work, but those are the issues that jumped out at me. To me, some hand loading and unloading is far more appealing than a gym.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Semi trailers ? Box of flats?

Not totally sure of what ur doing but sounds like more work than needed


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Another thing is bundles have a huge down fall depending on customer. I guess I'm a little lost. Just curious.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Flat bed trailer


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Well may be but.... every flat i have ever loaded we bust the bundles.

I deliver almost all of our product and then some on goosenecks and laod everything with grapples

We are one goosenecks 100% no touch frieght. We unload with special carts 4-5 bales at a time. Never pick one up by hand any more


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

on average how many layers of squares are you all stacking on average in your barn?


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Semi flats that is we bust bundles.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

You can load semi flats with grapple 100% too. Just need a ground man to make it little faster


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

What causes you to bust bundles?


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

In my personal barns we can go 13 high.

Cant max a trailer out with bundles on number of bales.

When we deliver most places have limited small storage areas so we don't have to go high on them. Ave load size seems to be 200. So we just price accordingly to that


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Nate926 said:


> Yeah I know built a 36'x72'x16' this past year. Building a 50'x100' this year. I think the manual bale handler will save me a lot of time. One because my help has a hard time getting a stable stack 16' tall and I need to use all the room I have. Two I don't have to load 300 bales by hand when I deliever hay like I have, and three we don't have to unload them by hand at my customers. Plus my customers resell my hay and they sometimes won't have to load there customs by hand if they buy a bundle at a time. I feel it may take 3-5 mins longer per bundle up front but the saving on the back end is far greater.


 As a bandit user I get what your saying about bundles being easier for you and the customer to load back out. Doing it by hand when unloading into the barn would be terribly inefficient and too time consuming if the weather is pushing you to get the hay in before the black clouds start pouring. I would hate to risk getting hay rained on because it took too long trying to get them hand bundled when stacking. Until you can buy a bandit if your trying to minimize hand labor maybe an accumulator and grapple would be the best choice. At times I wish I had a grapple to unload loads of loose bales that I buy when I run out of hay.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Farmercline I have enough space to get 6 wagons in the dry with 150 bales each on them from my thrower wagon. I never cut more hay than I can get in my bale wagons. The reason I don't want to go to an accumulator is because I bale 90% of my alfalfa at night so it's in case. With an accumulator it is really hard for me and my neighbor who has one to stack with a grapple in the dark even with lights.

what is the usual number of squares layers that you are stacking in a barn? In my barn we go 13-14 high. At that height the stack always gets unstable and we end up pushing the stack back against the wall 3 or 4 times so it doesn't tip. That's ineffecent to me.

I don't think it would take that much longer to compress and band them. I have attached a pic of my squares in the barn


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I have a hand stacked pile of straw in the shed that's 9 or ten layers high. On edge. Same as yours - on pallets on a relatively even dirt floor.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Nate926 said:


> Farmercline I have enough space to get 6 wagons in the dry with 150 bales each on them from my thrower wagon. I never cut more hay than I can get in my bale wagons. The reason I don't want to go to an accumulator is because I bale 90% of my alfalfa at night so it's in case. With an accumulator it is really hard for me and my neighbor who has one to stack with a grapple in the dark even with lights.
> what is the usual number of squares layers that you are stacking in a barn? In my barn we go 13-14 high. At that height the stack always gets unstable and we end up pushing the stack back against the wall 3 or 4 times so it doesn't tip. That's ineffecent to me.
> I don't think it would take that much longer to compress and band them. I have attached a pic of my squares in the barn


 If you can get all you cut at a time in the barn on wagons then the time it takes to hand bundle wouldn't be so crucial if that's what you want to do. When I hand stacked we went 11 -12 bales high.....I can just barely get 3 bundles tall in most of my barn. I always hand stacked the bales in stairstep fashion then going up when I got the stack as far out as I wanted......the stacks always stood well and didn't want to lean when doing it that way.

Very nice looking barn btw.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thank you farmercline, getting one just like it except 50X100' this fall if I don't get the bandit.

Then getting the bandit for sure the following fall.


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

Instead of trying to,hand bundle my thought would be buy a bandit this year, fill all your buildings for this year, find a barn to rent, even if it's for your machinery while you stuff every roof u have full. invest in nice tarps that cover all the way around. Then build your barn next year. You'll save a ton of time labor and some money .


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Renting a barn around here is not gonna happen Tobacco has them all rented. I won't be building a new barn till this fall when I get some $$ so I wouldn't buy a bandit till I fall either so it won't help me till 2017


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Wonder how many inches I would have to compress a bundle of loose bales before strapping with metal bands in order to keep the bundle tight?


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## JpJFarms (May 28, 2015)

I'm guessing 16-20" judging by what I see the plunger on my bandit moving. Keep in mind if you are going to be loading them in van trailers you wil have a little "spring back" after its strapped and the compression is released.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

It varies, bandit may compress up to 8". The really important part is the compression rails on top and bottom of chamber. This keeps strap away from surface so a forklift fork can go between bundles without catching straps. The barron does not have this and this is why most handle them with their grab.

You really need to try this before you invest much time and money. Make a stack against something solid and compress with tractor, skid steer etc. Time yourself and.handle the bundle a couple times.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

This is a bale squeeze made by steffen that goes on the front end loader. Now if I build one like it, but made it larger where the side clamps were the same as the bundle size, and then put a lot large hydraulic cylinders on it. Also notched the side panels so the bands could go on. Then I could also use it both as a bundle squeeze and a press. Thoughts?


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Nate926 said:


> This is a bale squeeze made by steffen that goes on the front end loader. Now if I build one like it, but made it larger where the side clamps were the same as the bundle size, and then put a lot large hydraulic cylinders on it. Also notched the side panels so the bands could go on. Then I could also use it both as a bundle squeeze and a press. Thoughts?


That's a neat new tool from Steffen Systems. I might see about one of those for loading trailers in the future. It would certainly make compressing the bales easier and allow you to stack the bundle immediately after the straps went on.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I agree unload 21 bales out of my thrower wagons stacked in the bundle shape compress, run bands around bundle through slots, band and stack. Honestly once you got it down pat I don't think it would be very time consuming. Just gotta figure out how big of hydraulic cylinders I need


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm assuming you've watched the few of the manual bundling videos on youtube?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)




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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Man I appreciate the videos. I tried searching youtube but didn't find any thing. What did you type in the browser bar to get those videos? The first video is exactly what I need. I will say I don't understand what the side hydraulics are for? Maybe to thread the twine up? The last video is way to slow of a way of doing it unless you are really small, but it does prove the bales don't have to be compress that much.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not sure what the side bars are, I think they just hold twine up out of the way as the other vids show it with baler twine in holders on the end.

The earlier models are less advanced.

The trick is searching for hay tools in other languages then get on the linked videos below the main video.

In French:
Foin is hay 
Petit pailles, bottes, balles all mean small square bales
groupeur is the word for accumulator
Presse is baler

I google translated to get Spanish and Portuguese or you can go to arcusins website and pick other language to get the words like aggroupeur for bundle / accumulator


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