# Lamb/Mutton meat pricing question



## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

So I might have found a farm to store market for my lamb. The USDA butcher would take my lamb on the hoof, kill, butcher, and inspect along the way, cut and wrap for the market, and maybe even deliver to the market. The store is interested mainly because it is locally grown and grass finished. (as if there was any other way for lamb besides the CAFOs)

I just got off the phone with the butcher and he has a way to rail weigh the carcass. This provides me the seller and the buyer a third party way to weigh the meat. The question is, What do I charge? Should I just go off off the upper echelon of the going auction rate for lambs? I am looking to stay in the green and I have the market cornered on this so to speak so I can set a high yet reasonable price per pound without much push back. After all, us farmers should make a good return for daily feedings in the rain, snow, sleet, and feed costs. I am thinking in the area of $2.55lb rail weight. The market can cut a deal with the butcher on the price per head kill/cut and inspection fees and absorb that themselves.

What say you oh wise ones of the forum?

As a side note, the butcher says he sees no difference in the meat between hair sheep vs wool sheep except for the outer fat that they usually have to trim off any way. So that means the few extra Barbados and Dorpers that are in with my woolies can be butchers and the end product is about the same. Save for a little extra marbling for the woolies, he sees no difference once on the cutting table.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounds cheap to me. Glass will chime in..

But IIRC he was getting 1.80-2.30 live weight. I am not experienced in lamb yield, but if it was beef, those are 3-3.85 ish.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I think that 2.55 would be dirt cheap for lamb. Uncle sold to the market south of me and got 2.30 (gross should be @ 2.17 net) for 48 lb average lambs. I sold 2 separate batches north (48 lb avg and 56 lb avg) and got 2.15 (net). If they cut out at 60 percent (they are expected to cut out at 50% which would be 4.30 per pound hanging weight), that would be 3.58 per pound hanging weight. That was the lamb part; for mutton, I have no idea.

That is all figured on 2.15 lamb prices. The price is a little high to the Eastern Orthodox Easter market. The past couple of weeks, prices were 1.80 lb and 2 weeks before Easter they were 2.20, and 2 weeks before that they were in the 1.80 range again.

I assume your buyer is going to be selling at or near store prices? I am not against the "other guy" making profit too, but below are prices as per last episode of "SHEEP!" magazine for various cuts. This will give an indication of mark-up from seller to shelf. Also pay attention to the top left corner of one of the pages; it gives whole lamb carcasses by size from <45lb to >85 lb ranging from 501.93 cwt to 301.06 cwt (that would have been printed while market was bearing @1.80 live weight)

















I would speculate that your asking price should be north of the above carcass weight for 2 reasons

1) The buyer wants YOUR lambs and not other lambs that he cannot market as locally grown and grass fed...he intends to sell for a higher than going-rate for YOUR lambs

2) They buyer will probably not take a whole load of sheep at once, so you will have more labor/handling than shipping a whole mess of them at once.

Personally, I would ONLY sell live weight and always shoot for $100 per head minimum. If I sell a 1/2 dozen to someone, they pay me over market price even if they come and get them. It takes nearly as much time to get 3 lambs as it does a load.

Hope this helps a little and makes sense as my mind is muddled and I can't keep a train of thought tonight.
73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

I am having a slight mental block understanding the differences is the prices you provided. I am trying to figure out (in the example you gave) the difference between the gross weight and the cut weight. By gross weight do you mean live on the hoof? And by cut weight, do you mean carcass on the hook?

I suppose my biggest roadblock is terminology. When I say rail weight, I am using the butcher's language, and that is carcass weighed on the rail.That seems to be the fairest weight method as it doesnt include hide, head and innards.

Also, what I plan to sell to the market are yearlings. Roughly 70-85 lbs. She even explicitly stated that her and her customers would not be able to tell the difference between lamb and mutton. (lamb under 1 yr of age, mutton over a yr old) Implying she would buy both from me. I still intend to sell her the yearlings for now though.

My intention though is to hit them in the upper echelon of the price without giving them sticker shock and scaring away any current or future business. Yet within reason.

I once thanked a hay seller in Ut for for cutting me such a good deal on alfalfa when he and I both knew he could have demanded a much higher price.His response was;

"It's OK to make money of a guy, but you dont have to do it all at once"

I am trying to live by that principal.

To edit; In a moment of clarity...

If I take my (estimated) gross weight and divide it into the high end price paid, that would give me an average of price per pound paid for lamb...at the time that was printed. I think that is where you are steering me.

So if I guess my average weight at 75lbs on the high end then $4.10 per lb would be closer to the right price. (using the scale in the top left of the page you provided)


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

I also found this link, but the info is only as good as those that report them to the USDA. If you click on the sheep, then go weekly, then negotiated prices, then click for the report, it give some of the info that the sheep magazine reported. It just doesnt break the weights down in 10 lb increments like the sheep magazine report does.

http://mpr.datamart.ams.usda.gov/


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You are on the right track. Using EZ round numbers for example, and a 60% carcass yield: (rail weight):

100# live @ $1/# (live weight) is a $100 carcass.

Now take away hide, head, etc and it is 60# on the rail. To get the same $100 carcass price, you need to charge live weight price divided by yield. In this case (1$/#)/(60%)=$1/(0.6#)=$1.67/#.

So, that $1 on the hoof is = to $1.67 on the rail. (Assuming 60% yield).


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Moose's explanation was right on point

Gross Weight=live weight

Cut weight or "how it will cut" is usually given in a percentage

Rail weight and hanging weight are the same.

Rail weight will be a little higher than net weight as some deboning and trimming is done before it hits the freezer.

I muddied the water a little by saying "net" above when talking prices.... Uncle sold for 2.30 (gross) and rec'd 2.17 net (there is commission, lamb checkoff, etc taken from the 2.30). My buyer to the north quotes me the price for which he is going to cut a check per pound.

If you decide to sell live weight (and again, that's the only way I sell), I would go with that week's market price (they are bought for live weight) and the purchaser can figure his cost per pound after it's hanging.

73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

So to us, we only care about live weight and let the butcher and meat market worry about the rail weight? Should I not concern myself with the rail weight/carcass weight and yield after its hanging?

If that is the case I can see why you would look at the live weight as they walk of the trailer and be done with them.

But, (and there is always a but) why do we look at the yield after the slaughter? Is that just an indicator for us producers to see how much meat/hide ratio we have, (we did a good/bad job feeding them out) or is it just a easy comparison to see what the grocery store is selling our meat for compared to what we sold it for?


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

olschoolsteel said:


> So to us, we only care about live weight and let the butcher and meat market worry about the rail weight? Should I not concern myself with the rail weight/carcass weight and yield after its hanging?
> 
> If that is the case I can see why you would look at the live weight as they walk of the trailer and be done with them.
> 
> But, (and there is always a but) why do we look at the yield after the slaughter? Is that just an indicator for us producers to see how much meat/hide ratio we have, (we did a good/bad job feeding them out) or is it just a easy comparison to see what the grocery store is selling our meat for compared to what we sold it for?


I do not worry (or even know) what mine will be on the hook as they go to St Louis (I think) and then????

And as far as "why do we look at the yield after slaughter?" I don't. I just have a general idea of what they will dress so that I can tell any of my local buyers what they can expect to yield (yes, I still will sell some to people I know/like, but realize that it is not as streamlined as taking to market...if I like them, I will eat the extra labor etc and it's just like baling hay...after it's loaded we have a wobble pop).

An experienced buyer can look at a critter on-the-hoof and know (within a percent or two) how they will cut.

If YOUR buyer is not too experienced, I would give him a conservative estimate of 50% (without seeing your lambs...and I wouldn't know then either) yield from live weight. If you're shooting for 85# (depending on breed) you should see in excess of 50%.

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

olschoolsteel said:


> So to us, we only care about live weight and let the butcher and meat market worry about the rail weight? Should I not concern myself with the rail weight/carcass weight and yield after its hanging?
> 
> If that is the case I can see why you would look at the live weight as they walk of the trailer and be done with them.
> 
> But, (and there is always a but) why do we look at the yield after the slaughter? Is that just an indicator for us producers to see how much meat/hide ratio we have, (we did a good/bad job feeding them out) or is it just a easy comparison to see what the grocery store is selling our meat for compared to what we sold it for?


I would want to know both. Can't have too much info. Also can tell you which (genetics, feeding groups etc.) Perform better.

Especially in a long term relationship with one buyer.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

My experience here in oz with lambs is to put them through the sale yards or computer sales reason is you have more buyers if you d,nt like the price you can taken them home .its a bit hard to glue them back together after their gone through the butcher,s band saw .as you know if anyone has to suffer price cut it,s the farmer, the old favorite is to fat ,skin price dropped the day they killed them .prices here for new season lambs is about 6.30 a kilo dressed weight that,s ozzie dollars.kilos 2.2 lbs to kilo 1 ozzie dollar 1.25 American. Anyway glad to share information with you guys waldo


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

Well as it turns out, the store balked, and pretty much blew me off. Thats fine. I can always refer back to this informational post if someone entertains the idea of purchasing any of my sheep for butcher. I have a freezer with 4 sheep in it now, and sold a few back at auction during the June drought when my pasture was cracked dirt. I held 4 back. Now the pasture is so tall I have to stand on the fence to see if one is laying down.

Now if I had bought them as lambs and finished them out for the store, and they stood me up, I would have lost my temper. And got my name in the paper.


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