# What herbicides do you use in grass-type hay?



## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

We just recently picked up a sprayer last week....Miller Pro 1000g 60' booms Raven 440 auto-rate 3-section shutoff. We want to concentrate on keeping our fields cleaner and rely less on the local sprayer to come spray the fields when they need done. Also going to do hydroseeding on starting Timothy fields using flood nozzles.

What herbicides are you guys/gals using on your grass type fields (Timothy, OG, Brome, TF, etc.)? We typically ran 2-4,D and Banvel...tried staying away from the heavy-residue herbicides like Forefront, Milestone, Chapparal, Cimarron (Max or Plus), Grazon, and others because of it carrying though manure to other broadleaf crops. Might use Milestone on any fields with heavy Thisle pressure. Our largest weed pressure comes from hemp dogbane, milkweed, plaintain, mustand seed (in the early spring bc winter annual), thistles, and wild daisy. Thanks.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Triclopyr

After last year, I'm now a fan of 2,4D, Dicamba, and Aminopyralid. I like the residual.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Bonfire said:


> Triclopyr
> 
> After last year, I'm now a fan of 2,4D, Dicamba, and Aminopyralid. I like the residual.


Me, too.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

2-4-D for hayfields with milkweed, buttercups, etc. Cimmaron for dogbane infestations.
Clarity for when I had multi flora rose.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

What about the heavy-residue from Cimmaron? A lot of fellows around here have destroyed soybean fields because they were applied with Cimmaron-treated hay from manure that was applied the previous winter. I do like Clarity.


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## Blaze 57 (Feb 22, 2011)

If you are selling hay with Aminopryralid treated pastures make sure you tell your customers in advance for obvious reasons (manure and gardens). That's why I stay away from it (Milestone etc)


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Blaze 57 said:


> If you are selling hay with Aminopryralid treated pastures make sure you tell your customers in advance for obvious reasons (manure and gardens). That's why I stay away from it (Milestone etc)


I was at a state certified spray applicators class this winter the instructor said they are trying to get the labels changed on most of those residual products to read you cannot sell the hay or manure. it cannot leave your farm for 18 months . He talked about an incident in the western part of our state a guy sold round bales with that residual herbicide in to a vegetable truck farmer for mulching his plants. A 20 acre truck patch that a guy spent years to establish to grow vegetables is ruined and will never be productive in the vegetable business again and someone is in a lot of trouble.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

endrow said:


> I was at a state certified spray applicators class this winter the instructor said they are trying to get the labels changed on most of those residual products to read you cannot sell the hay or manure. it cannot leave your farm for 18 months . He talked about an incident in the western part of our state a guy sold round bales with that residual herbicide in to a vegetable truck farmer for mulching his plants. A 20 acre truck patch that a guy spent years to establish to grow vegetables is ruined and will never be productive in the vegetable business again and someone is in a lot of trouble.


That's unfortunate. Government regulation is going to come down to the least common denominator. I would rather see them put these types of residual herbicides as restricted use. That would at least have a much better chance of a label being read.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Those heavy-residue Aminopryralid herbices were meant for rangeland and pastures, not commercial hay production. Situations like what Blaze 57 and Endrow said have been happening for years.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I have been doing a little research on Aminopyralids....I am not the type to run and say the sky is falling but I think if you are using these chems that you need to stop. I can see heavy government intervention coming on these chemicals and it would be good for all of us to try and get "off record" of their usage.

If you happen to have "unopened" containers of these chems, take them back and keep your return invoice for documentation.

I have used Milestone in the past for hard to kill Passion Vine/Maypop....but no more. Google Aminopyralids and Triclopyr to get lists of various brand names of these chemicals. They have extreme residuals and have the potential to cause serious financial repercussions to all endusers.

Remember folks, the blame will have to fall somewhere....and it will most likely be with the Ag user in the beginning.....the chem manufacturers have much more legal staying power than farmer Jones.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

This is why me and thousands of hay buyers prefer alfalfa grass mixture. The alfalfa in the mix is solid proof those type herbicide residuals are not used.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

What is the general consensus on the "best" herbicide to use on mixed Timothy/Orchard/Alfalfa hayfields?

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

2,4-DB is what worked best for us. I'm open to other herbicides though.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

PaCustomBaler said:


> 2,4-DB is what worked best for us. I'm open to other herbicides though.


It just seems like here that there are many broadleafs that db won't kill. What is the average price per 2 1/2 gallon jug up your way?

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

I can't remember exactly mate. $125 is sticking in my head for some reason on that size jug.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Do you use 2 or 4 pints per acre on average?

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Vol said:


> Do you use 2 or 4 pints per acre on average?
> 
> Regards, Mike


2 pints on a grass/legume mix. I didn't know the label said to go more than 2 pints/acre. If it's straight grass, I'll go with 1 pint 2,4-D and 1 pint Banvel.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

PaCustomBaler said:


> 2 pints on a grass/legume mix. I didn't know the label said to go more than 2 pints/acre. If it's straight grass, I'll go with 1 pint 2,4-D and 1 pint Banvel.


The label I looked at online says 4 pints on some species of broadleafs 6 pints on others according to growth stage.....unless I read incorrectly. :huh:

Regards, Mike

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld4JG004.pdf (Page 10)


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Checked out your link....I see that now. Guess I was on the light side of application!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaCustomBaler said:


> Checked out your link....I see that now. Guess I was on the light side of application!


Or selling lots of weeds!!! haha


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

> I have been doing a little research on Aminopyralids..


I spent some time looking at different links after you posted this. So glad I did as I had bids out of triclopyr to spray blackberry in a bermuda field.

I am now a little concerned about Grazon.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Never used Grazon for that reason......


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Or selling lots of weeds!!! haha


Nah, only the weedy hay went down your way! lol


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So if companies sell farmers herbicides with carry through residue, isn't it the company that made the herbicides fault if the farmer followed the direction on the label? 
Seems like the fault goes to the herbicide manufacturer when the product is found to have problems later. 
Or am I missing something?


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> So if companies sell farmers herbicides with carry through residue, isn't it the company that made the herbicides fault if the farmer followed the direction on the label?
> Seems like the fault goes to the herbicide manufacturer when the product is found to have problems later.
> Or am I missing something?


JD3430, http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ldA6J001.pdf Page 3 in bold

18 month haying restriction if being sold off the farm.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

I believe that goes for most aminophyralid


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> So if companies sell farmers herbicides with carry through residue, isn't it the company that made the herbicides fault if the farmer followed the direction on the label?
> Seems like the fault goes to the herbicide manufacturer when the product is found to have problems later.
> Or am I missing something?


Page 1 of the Milestone label as well. With pictures. Grass or hay treated with MS can't leave the farm without supplemental labeling.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm talking about when they apply it for you.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

There is a reason why we like the results of these chems.....staying power....and that is just what the "High Load" residuals do.....hang around....for years. Looks like we are back to where we were 10-12 years ago.

Regards, Mike


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> So if companies sell farmers herbicides with carry through residue, isn't it the company that made the herbicides fault if the farmer followed the direction on the label?
> Seems like the fault goes to the herbicide manufacturer when the product is found to have problems later.
> Or am I missing something?


I'm confused I guess. If you hire someone to apply herbicide, wouldn't you know what they are applying? If so, you have to follow the label. I don't understand what your saying about the product is found to have problems later. The product failed to perform?


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> I'm talking about when they apply it for you.


Anytime I asked Growmark FS about them applying it, they told me they'd only apply it on severe/extreme weed pressure and informed me not to move the hay. So to answer your question, if custom applied, farmer is held liable for their negligence of not following directions (the custom applicator should inform customer on what the label says and it's limitations). If farmer applied it, it's their negligence for not following the label.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bonfire said:


> I'm confused I guess. If you hire someone to apply herbicide, wouldn't you know what they are applying? If so, you have to follow the label. I don't understand what your saying about the product is found to have problems later. The product failed to perform?


I phrased my question poorly.

What I am saying is what worries me is if the spraying company mixes it too strong, incorrectly, etc.
I've had situations where spraying worked and others where it didn't work well at all. If the spraying company can mix it too weak, they are also capable of mixing it too strong, right?
I always felt better when I spot sprayed myself. I knew everything was mixed correctly

What I mean about problems later is a farmer places faith in the product, then it is found to be no good in one way or another.

I never used Milestone and my spraying company told me of its residual problems years ago.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

PaCustomBaler said:


> I can't remember exactly mate. $125 is sticking in my head for some reason on that size jug.


Bought a 2.5 jug today and it was $105.....I was surprised.

Regards, Mike


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