# New Holland 560 duckbill/Bale Command question



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I've been running one of my 560s myself this spring, so I'm getting some personal experience with the quirks of these machines. One thing that bugs me, when the BR balers had a net wrap hiccup that was detectable by the Bale Command, the Bale Command would automatically retract the duckbill. The big thing of course is when the roll of net wrap runs out. On the BRs the duckbill would automatically return to the home position. The 560s apparently don't. It is a real nuisance to have to remember to manually retract the duckbill, plus one more thing for a rookie operator to fumble through. Is there a reason why the 560s are this way? Does the latest software version correct this? My balers don't have the latest software version so far as I know.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

When the 560s came out the duckbill would insert the net and then come back to the home position without stopping. To help with net spread, a function was added to the software to stop the duckbill at a precut position which keeps the duckbill closer to the bale. The function can be turned off. Press the program/enter key to bring up the menu. The open book will be at the top of the list and should be highlited. Press enter to enter that menu. Press the up arrow key to take you to the end of the that menu. Different versions of software place the items in differernt numbered positions. I beleive the bottom item will show the knife and and up and down arrows. This is the knife shake option and may not be shown on your screen since you have the later knife setup. The next to last item should show the duckbill and some other icon and there should be a check mark by it. Use the up and down arrow keys to highlite this item and press enter to select. Press the up or down arrow to uncheck the item. Press enter to save. Press cancel/exit to back out of the menus or simply turn the screen off and back on. If you have any net spreading issues, then just recheck the item. My key terminology may not be right, too laze to look up the exact wording. lol.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks mike10! It sure seems like NH felt they had to reinvent the wheel with the 560 net system . . . they added the precut position . . . well now, the BRs had that all along. I will try eliminating the precut position once and see if that works. I wonder if the error of running out of net will prevent the duckbill from retracting anyway?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Not if you turn the precut off. In the next few days I am going to check how the newest software has changed to see if that issue has changed. I never gave it a thought it might aggravate someone since I have not heard any complaints. I am well aware people, including me, hate change. To me pushing the up wrap button would not be an issue since I was not use to not having to.

Have seen it many times where people complain the new piece of equipment is just not like the old one, but give it a few years and somehow that pos turns into the best thing since sliced bread.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

It wouldn't be such a big deal to me either, but coming from the BRs it's so easy to forget to hit the wrap up button, then you get to climb back in the cab just to do that . . . The other thing is I might have 3 or 4 different people running my balers in a year, and 2 or 3 of them might have zero experience with balers. Its nice to keep things as absolutely simple as possible. At least with the 560s I don't have to teach everybody to flip the net tail over the knife when they put a new roll in. Just about every rookie operator makes that omission, then I get a call "I just changed net and now it won't wrap"


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The software engineers who did the programing probably do not realize the change makes any difference. If given the opportunity shafe your concerns with NH, not the dealership. A phone call from you will do more good than telling a dealer.

Seeing your photos in the other post on the expeller roll, reminded me of something you need to check. You need to check the tailgate belt guide for wear so you do not slice your belts. The belts on these balers seem to be more abrasive and can wear the guide out fairly quickly depending on how the operator fills the bale. Have seen them go several thousand bales and have seen them hundreds. Just check. It seems once the guide is welded up the weld lasts longer than the original metal. Have thought about welding them with stainless.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I looked at my belts guides and they look very good yet, 1500 on baler #280 and approaching 2000 on #279. I am impressed with how the belts track on these balers, more consistent than the BRs. I like the belts too, they are a ply thicker I think.

How do I contact NH about this software thing?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The belts are the same ply as previous models, but the composition of the plys and rubber is all new. They are a stiffer belt which helps tracking. I do not know how old your 7090s were, but the last 7090s and the 560s have rubber molded to the top rear tailgate roll which helps keep the belts tracking correctly. As long as your operators fill the bale correctly, the belt guide lasts a reasonable amount of time, but I have seen them wear quickly with poor operation by the operator.

As for as contacting NH, I would think there is a contact tab on their website.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Question about software updates, does the customer always have to pay for them, even if the machines are under warranty yet? Just curious.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> How do I contact NH about this software thing?


I'd write a nice letter to the chairman (even giving him some atta boys on how much NH equipment you have), asking for his help on sending your request to the right person 'in charge' of software. Also, giving him your contact information, while thanking him for his "prompt attention" to your concern/problem. I believe you will be amazed on how fast manure travels down hill.  My experience is trying from the bottom up, seems to be too many 'not my job or I'm not in charge' people, that leave you hopelessly lost. 

My two cents, but it's still raining, so I might not be in a good mood.

Larry


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Charging for software updates under warranty is up to each dealer. Unless NH has a pip requiring a software update NH, or any other ag mfg, will not cover random updates. Most of the updates are convenience updates and not critical to the operation of the baler. Surely after buying two balers you can talk your dealer into updating the software when they are in the area. It takes me .3 to .4 hours to do the update which includes removing the computer from the case, waiting for the computer to boot up, selecting the correct software, waiting for that to load, attaching various cables and interface box, capturing the controllers, updating the software in the operators panel and controller, shutting down the program and turning the computer off, disconnecting the cables and interface box and putting everything away. The actual software upload only takes 5 minutes if that.

Under warranty I do not charge if I think the update is beneficial for the customer, otherwise I always update the software when a baler comes in for service. And no connection charge as many dealers do.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Does it make sense for me to remove the computer and bring it to the dealer? I ask because some time before fall I need to get all 4 tension cylinders resealed, they are leaking a little. Dealer knows about it, agreement was I'd bring them in and they'd rebuild them under warranty. Dealer is about an hour drive away.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I am not suggesting a connection fee is unwarranted by the dealer. It costs the dealers dearly for access to the programs. We have one specific software package to use on basically two models of skid loader engines and that costs us 800.00 per year alone and another program for a few engines which we get for the bargain price of 800.00 for a three year license.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

There is a specific procedure for charging the tension system so you may want the dealer to do that which should be covered under warranty and while he is there they can update the software. The trips are not covered under warranty and again that is something dependent on what the dealers practice is.

The controller on the baler is not the easiest to get too and they would need to put it on another baler to program it. That would definitely cost you money.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

OK. finally got around to check the latest software. I have a hub I slip over the counter roll and spin the counter roll with an air ratchet. Spinning the counter roll by hand on these balers seldom works. The system needs a constant steady signal. Anyway, when I stop the counter roll with the duckbill in the precut position the duckbill will come to the home position like you want. I think this software came out in April and the version is 5.02.00. I can not tell you what version this was changed, but like I said I have not had any complaints. You can find your version number on one of the menus, but I need to look which one.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

In the first menu scroll down to item 6. There should be an "i" displayed. Press enter for the next menu and scroll to item 2 and press enter. Item 2 on this menu is the software version number and item 3 is the hardware version.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This is what I have. 








I may need some help sorting out a wrap problem, having trouble with the wrap not starting sometimes. Kinda seems like the bale grabs the tail, but either is losing it again or the net is snapping off.

Does the duckbill typically need to be tightened up a little after the first few thousand bales?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is the error history on this baler.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Pull the net from the duckbill, open and lock the tailgate, extend the duckbill fully. Go to the back of the baler and you will see the duckbill and baffle. The baffle should be lightly touching the duckbill the length of the duckbill except for the last 6" on each end. There are rubber washers between the baffle and duckbill. None in the center two holes, one rubber washer in the holes next to the center two bolts and two rubber washers in each of the two outer bolts. If you have a gap, tighten nuts on the bolts with the rubber washers. The center two bolts may be tight, if not then you can tighten them also. You need to maintain a gap at the ends of the duckbill. Tightening the baffle too tight can cause the net not to spread fully.

You can increase the net tail by moving the stop bracket up in the mounting slots.

In certain conditions sap or preservative can coat the brake disc increasing the tension on the net which may cause the net to spring back.

You can slightly increase the gap between the brake pad and the disc to allow more time for the net to get started before the brake is applied. The brake needs to be applied at the precut position.

You can also increase the dwell time the duckbill remains inserted before pulling out and applying brake tension. this should be explained in your manual.

There have been at least two software updates since yours was programmed, but I cannot remember what all the versions were.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Made an error in one statement. There are rubber washers under the two center bolts.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Just brought a baler in to get ready to deliver and it had 5.01 software. The duckbill did not go to the home position when the counter roller stopped turning. I think it is safe to say only the latest software 5.02 was the first with this feature.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Many thanks mike10! Sounds like the current software program would offer some benefits. The later versions also changed the eject bale tone correct?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

When the baling process and wrapping is done there will be one of two alarms. A long solid tone lets you know the wrapping process was successful. Rapid short beeps indicated there was a problem with the wrapping process giving you a chance to find the problem and wrap the bale again. The problem with this setup is the tone is the same whether a long tone or short beeps and after a long day of baling it becomes automatic to open the tailgate at the first sound of the alarm.

With the new software, since 5.01, the tones are no longer the same. The successful long tone is the same it has been since 2014. If there is a problem with the wrap process you get the short beeps but the tone is much deeper and considerably louder so it is harder to make a mistake of opening the tailgate prematurely.

I am attaching of pdf on the brake pad adjustment in case that is causing you a problem of engaging to early.

View attachment Brake pad adjustment.pdf


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

mike10--I will need to look at that pdf when I have more time--I think my problem is (was?) caused by the net brake not being released when the baler grabbed the net. Got some thoughts about that I will have to come back to later.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Update on the net not starting—it looks like at least two things were going on—first was that the brake release linkage wasn’t set right, I’m quite sure that sometimes the bale was grabbing the net before the brake was released, I’m running a long tail to aid net starting and that means the brake linkage needs to be adjusted accordingly. The other thing is the duckbill dwell was set for 1 which allows only a very short time for the bale to grab the net, plus would probably aggravate a brake linkage problem.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You need to do a net pull test. What you done will help, but if the brake is too tight it will either stall the motor or tear the net. Did your software allow you to enter 3 in the dwell. Earlier software only had 1 or 2.

As those brake pads wear in the braking force can increase as the pad conforms to the disc. Had one where I set it at 85 at predelivery and he was having similar issues at 300. Did the net pull test and I just about could not get the net to pull off the roll. Had to back off the adjusting botl over 1/2" to get back to 85 and knock on wood, at this point everything seems to be working. A good indication of too much brake tension is if the problem starts occuring as the net roll gets smaller.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

My software has 1,2,3 for dwell choices. I'm trying 3, it was on 1 even though book says 2 is factory, which is supposedly a 1/2 second dwell.

Definitely need to check the net pull. I've messed with the brake a lot, to the point it was way low trying to figure out in a hurry how to keep the baler moving. Time to go through and systematically set these things.

One thing that I think throws a curve in what NH thinks will work to get the net started is the dust that can occur when baling stalks. There has been a correlation between problems with net not want to catch and very dry conditions. It seems that the dust that comes off really dry stalks has a talc like effect and makes the net harder to grab.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Originally the dwell was set at 2 but was changed to 1 so the brake would apply sooner for faster net spread. Dwell only comes into play once the net starts moving.

Is the net shredding when it does not start?

I think the baffle on the duckbill is set too tight from the factory and I loosen the nuts some so I still have contact with the duckbill but I am able to flex the baffle open with my hand placed in the middle.

I am not sure if he duckbill penetration measurement is still in the book since the penetration is no longer adjustable. I have a new baler in the shop for predelivery and I think I will check how the measurement compares to the older models.

I know this is sacreligous, but have you tried a different brand net? I wonder what the JD net would do in your situation since it's texture is different from other brands.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The duckbill penetration should be between 1.46 and 1.9 inches. This new baler was set at a little better than 1.5 inches.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> Is the net shredding when it does not start?


Yes, it will be all ragged compared to what a normal tail looks like, and there won't be a tail anymore, in most cases the net won't even be in the duckbill. When I first started seeing this I backed the net brake off which helped some but not much; changing the brake release linkage has pretty much made this go away

I did see that the dwell time is triggered by the net counter.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Definetly time to get the spring scales out. Adjusting the brake pad gap and changing the dwell time have the same effect, delaying the application of the brake.

Have you had any fault codes indicating an overload on the duckbill motor?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

No actuator over load errors, not on this baler anyway. I did have the bizarre problem on the other 560 last fall
with an overload error, after much head scratching I figured out that the rack and pinion were engaged too tightly. Didn't show up until the first nice warm day that we ran the balers, only thing I can figure is things expanded just enough to get to the critical point of too tight.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I don’t quite agree that dwell time and brake linkage adjustment will have the same effect. Dwell time is going to have the brake released longer, but not sooner relative to full insertion like linkage adjustment will. Linkage adjustment will have the brake released sooner and longer (somewhat). I think my problem was that the brake wasn’t releasing quite soon enough.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I did not mean to imply they were equal, just that the effect was the same, an increase of time before the brake re-applied. Each will increase the released time depending on other factors.

The duckbill does not always go to the down stop. As soon as the system sees the net moving the duckbill will retract if set at 1 or a slight delay if set higher, so yes it is possible the brake was not fully released.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Some pictures. Net pull measures 60-90 lbs pulling out the back of the baler on a spring scale, depending on what part of the rotation the net roll is on. The run out on the net brake drum is atrocious. First picture is the position of the duckbill when the brake just begins to lift, second is duckbill full insertion.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

This was another little bit a stupidity I encountered this summer, those frail little snap rings that hold the knife actuator linkage in place aren't up to the job. This one went AWOL at night when I was 15 miles away from home baling alfalfa as the humidity was rising. Fortunately I was able to find the bushing and washer laying on the ground, and had some smaller gauge wire in my pickup that would serve as a snap ring for an hour to finish the night. A little snap ring just can't handle the impact loads that are there.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The brake drums are supposed to be machined true. If yours are not true then you need to contact your dealer. Replacing the drums with machined drums was part of a pip a couple years ago.

As long as the brake is applied at the precut position you can increase brake pad gap, or if you turn off the precut you can increase the gap even more.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

As for the snap ring, impact should not have any effect except for some vibration. I would be more concerned about how the linkage lines up throughout the cycle


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