# All States Ag Parts Starters



## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

I bought a new Delco style gear reduction starter from All States last week for a John Deere 2440 project tractor. The starter worked perfect about a half dozen times. Then another half dozen times the solenoid would click on the first key turn, and the starter would crank on a second key turn. After that nothing but a solid solenoid click every time. They are sending me a replacement, but I'm just curious if anyone has used these starters long term and if they are generally reliable?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Got a ASAP starter on a Ford 5000 for so many years I can't remember, exactly how long. Plus 15 years, I'd guess (when did I start using the internet good old Al Gore invented anyhow? ), but they could have been using different re-building material(s) (US vs Chinese perhaps), back then too.

But, my opinion might be bias being I have nothing but good luck with anything I've gotten from ASAP over the years.

Larry


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks like they are rebuilt starters on their website.IDK if they rebuild them in house or not.Used to be that they did it all in house.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

They offered a 'new' and a 'used' option for this tractor in the gear reduction model. I chose new, and I would say it was a new starter. They do offer a reman in the original direct drive starter though.

https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/starter-delco-osgr-6570-bobcat-6631597-delco-remy-113951.html

Hopefully I just got a dud the first time around. I really like how the tractor starts with the gear reduction starter vs. the original direct drive.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Did you try carefully shorting across "S" & top battery post on solenoid to see if starter would turn? Sometimes JD tractor wiring has a drop in amps/volts on starter solenoid engagement so starter won't spin. JD introduced a field installed starter engagement relay to solve that problem.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I haven't had issues with ASAP. It's entirely possible you got a dud.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

On my JD 400 backhoe we had to use a starter selinoid like was used on and old ford pickup truck. It did the same thing your starter did it started the tractor several times then no longer worked. We got our starters from Abilene machine. My son thinks not enough amps was getting through the key switch. Tx Jim is on to your problem that is how we figured out what was wrong. If it starts when jumping across terminals then a selinoid may be required. We just installed a the same gear reduction starter on our JD 2510 with push button start and didn’t have to add the selinoid.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Can check for voltage drop if you attach volt meter to s terminal while cranking. Also check battery voltage at battery while cranking, make sure the batteries are good. Now check at the starter. Check the ground cables, they are in a place where junk can collect and cause them to corrode.
I'm always skeptical about rebuilt starters, I have a rebuilder 45 minutes away that is better and cheaper than another starter, in my opinion, spoiled I guess. Before I started using them, the guys I was doing work for usually ended up going back for another rebuild, wasn't ASAP. Not that ASAP is bad, I'm just skeptical.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Thanks for the responses guys!

@TxJim, no I didn't try that. Thought about, but then decided I didn't want to self inflict harm on a starter that was under warranty. Do you have any detail on the relay kit? I'll check for voltage drop at the S terminal before swapping out the starter.

@Farmineer95, I did check battery voltage while cranking and it was good. I have a very good local re-builder as well and I initially took the original starter to him. He found the armature was bad, and did not recommend re-building as the cost was too high. After that I temporarily used the starter from my 2755 on this 2440 and the tractor was cranking and staring fine. I did also install new battery cables right off the bat since the originals were pretty corroded.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Checked this out a little more tonight with the following results:

Battery Voltage at rest: 12.9

Battery Voltage when attempting crank: 12.5

Voltage at S terminal when attempting crank: 6.6

Voltage at top battery post when attempting crank 12.5

I attempted jumping S terminal and top battery post, but still just a click.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IMHO opinion if one can't short from top post on solenoid to "S" terminal on solenoid & then starter gear engages flywheel ring gear & turns then a field installed added relay will be a waste of time. For future reference here's a photo of relay kit. I'd suggest to get a relay & make the wiring. Relay only from JD is as follows.

RE164448 Starter Relay -







<a>ADD</a> 24.21 USD


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

I'd look for a bad connection. That 6.6 at the s terminal seems pretty low. Should stay above 9 or 10???
Check both sides of the neutral start switch when cranking too, maybe the switch is high resistance??


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I f I get a chance this weekend I will post a picture of how we installed our relay.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> On my JD 400 backhoe we had to use a starter selinoid like was used on and old ford pickup truck. It did the same thing your starter did it started the tractor several times then no longer worked. We got our starters from Abilene machine. My son thinks not enough amps was getting through the key switch. Tx Jim is on to your problem that is how we figured out what was wrong. If it starts when jumping across terminals then a selinoid may be required. We just installed a the same gear reduction starter on our JD 2510 with push button start and didn't have to add the selinoid.


Holy crap, somebody else with a JD400 backhoe&#8230;.

I have a gear reduction on my Oliver 1600 and one on the JD401C. The 1600's came from Maibach tractor, the JD401 came from Amazon, both working fine so far. The 1600 is like a different tractor with it.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

An update on this after working on it yesterday. The replacement starter arrived and interestingly it was a different manufacture. Before I swapped it in I wanted to check out the voltage drop to the S terminal to see if I really needed to install a relay system. I removed the switch wire from the S terminal and checked voltage on it with the key in the crank position. It was getting the full 12.5 volts. I then reconnected it and checked voltage at the B and M terminals with the key in the crank position. 12.5 volts at the B terminal, but only .4 volts at the M terminal. Seems like the solenoid is actually what failed on the new starter.

I then installed the new starter and re-checked voltage at the S terminal when cranking - 12.5 volts. Good to go. This replacement starter has a completely different sound. A whole lot more gear whine from the gear reduction, but fires the tractor right up every time with no issues.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

It doesn't sound like much, but the gear reduction on the 1600 spins the engine over 30 rpm faster than the good starter it replaced. 30 rpm don't sound like much, but starters don't really crank that fast anyways.


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