# Hay Perservative - I'm a Beliver.....



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

As I mentioned in the 2017 photos thread, I lied. Weakened by potential hay sales lost due to not cutting, I made a second cut on my Timothy mixed grass hay field. Have had a buffered propionic acid applicator on my handy JD348 square baler, but never used it. With the Agtronix BH-2 bale chamber reading 20-25% moisture (including acid and some dense bales), I switched on the acid. Nasty smelling stuff - especially if you were stacking on a wagon in tow by the baler.

Very concerned about the bales heating - even with the acid. Was unable to check the bales for 2 full days and did so just a few minutes ago. The bales are completely cold! Simply amazing! No heat or musty smell and really the acid vinagar smell has diminished a lot.

This hay preservative is a game changer.

Wrestled with how to mount the nozzles when I installed the system. The JD square baler design's auger often stands the hay up on the back side of the pick-up throat just before the packer fork grabs it (nice tall charge of hay going into the bale chamber and IMHO accounts for much of the brick like bales inherent to a JD baler) and sometimes the throat of the pick-up will fill up with hay on the plunger side half way across it - again, very good for the packer fork to take a full charge of hay to be baled. Problem is - when you have a wad of hay bunching, how do you evenly apply preservative? To remedy this, I mounted the two nozzles on the pick-up guard (for lack of a better name) and pointed them downward at a slight angle onto the tines/tine guards. It works great as when the pick-up tines grab the hay, it is broken loose - the windrow fractured and greatly opens the interior if the windrow to the acid. Coverage is outstanding IMHO.

Two nozzles cover most of width of the pick-up given the spray pattern and distance to the hay. This is sort of a poor man's automation in terms of varying the acid application. Each nozzle is set for 4 lbs acid per ton of hay on this day. If I get into a wider/heavier windrow, more acid is applied as the hay fills up the windrow width. Anything not hitting the hay goes goes onto the down slope of the pick-up guards and some of it between them and to the ground. No pooling of acid anywhere. There is an on/off switch for when we don't need the acid, i.e. exiting the windrows on a turn. This scheme wastes some acid, but is many times cheaper than an automated system, which wouldn't pencil out for our hay volumes. As I said, poor man's automation.









Thought I'd share - YMMV

Bill


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Yep, I used to apply acid to all my hay regardless of moisture reading, was cheap insurance against sweating and possibly heating.

Haven't had much of an issue with heating since going with aftermarket conditioning rolls, I think because it's conditioned better the actual moisture is more consistent throughout the entire plant instead of some of it being bone dry with some moisture still left in the stem.


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## haygrl59 (May 19, 2014)

We don't use preservative anymore as a lot of our customers do not want anything on the hay. We also noticed that the hay would "caramelize" if it was baled a little too wet. No mold, though. The animals loved that sweet taste but the people not so much, especially if they had an animal that cannot have too much sugars and starch. I think it depends on your market area and also your weather conditions as well. We have moved to a new standard now that we aren't using preservative. We bale at 15% moisture or less. Anything that stays higher than that, we stop baling. Teff hay, we prefer it to be 12% or less based on our experience. Basically, its what works for you and what you're comfortable with. I have noticed with new hay inquiries that a common question now is: "Have you put anything on the hay?". Apparently, the horsey folks have been talking with each other and come to the conclusion that all preservatives are bad. Wish you well in selling your hay!


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

As long as they'll pay a premium for the scarcity of non preservative hay. The way things are trending here soon there will be very few small square bales. Locally there isn't any price difference between small square small rounds and 3*3's.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of how propionic acid works is that as long as the fumes from the acid are in the hay it keeps it from heating and molding but after the acid starts to dissipate after a while if the hay has not dried down to a safe moisture level by then that it can still spoil and mold.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of how propionic acid works is that as long as the fumes from the acid are in the hay it keeps it from heating and molding but after the acid starts to dissipate after a while if the hay has not dried down to a safe moisture level by then that it can still spoil and mold.


I don't recall exactly how the acid works, but I've read that by the time the acid evaporates, the bale (square) is dried down too, so generally mold or dust isn't a problem. Just checked the hay I baled last week that I applied acid - stone cold.

Got a bit more to bale in a bit and its in a low shady area. It will get acid too. The stuff I baled last week that got acid also looks great! Very thankful it's not a waste - I will make some $$$'s on this second cutting Timothy mixed grass hay.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Environment conditions vs market (buyer's bias). I have chased this rabbit down alot of holes in the past tens years!

In this area (cool, wet, ocean influences) I HAVE TO have backup options for hay-forage production. Or, there will be years that I end up skunked -and losing money!

I'll admit; I do not comprehend the "wives tale" aversion that horse owners have towards treated hay. Where does it come from and what is it exactly? Sickened... Died, what are the complaints?

A local gal (doctor's wife... That tell you something?) maintains her Friesian has gotten mouth sores from treated hay. Anyone else ever heard that?

I will feed our horses propionic treated hay but I won't sell it to our customers for fear of a "bad reputation". As well, I won't sell haylage to most any horse owners.

We'll feed it... Our horses will trample you trying to get it when they smell it!


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

2ndWindfarm said:


> Environment conditions vs market (buyer's bias). I have chased this rabbit down alot of holes in the past tens years!
> In this area (cool, wet, ocean influences) I HAVE TO have backup options for hay-forage production. Or, there will be years that I end up skunked -and losing money!
> I'll admit; I do not comprehend the "wives tale" aversion that horse owners have towards treated hay. Where does it come from and what is it exactly? Sickened... Died, what are the complaints?
> A local gal (doctor's wife... That tell you something?) maintains her Friesian has gotten mouth sores from treated hay. Anyone else ever heard that?
> ...


I can tell you from personal experience that horse DO NOT like proprionic acid hay. Some do get sores, but I don't know if that's due to the acid or the quantity of acid used. Before I use any proprionic treated hay it would have to be the ONLY hay available. Now there are other drying agents out there (can't remember the names) that do as good a job and are not disliked by horses, some people on this panel have used them with great results, if you want to sell hay to horse people better change your drying agent


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Different perspective http://harvesttec.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Acid-Treated-Hay-for-Horses-06.pdf


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

endrow said:


> Different perspective http://harvesttec.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Acid-Treated-Hay-for-Horses-06.pdf


Never believe everything you read  It certainly is safe and it may even have what's in their gut, but they DO NOT like it. My experience doesn't come from clinical studies that can be manipulated to suit whatever/whomever, but from real life experience. When given a choice horses will eat anything else before propionic/acetic treated hay. How would one like to eat what's in one's gut? Taste wise I don't think so, even though it may be nutritious and harmless. At least that has been my experience also shared by others


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Trillium Farm said:


> Never believe everything you read  It certainly is safe and it may even have what's in their gut, but they DO NOT like it. My experience doesn't come from clinical studies that can be manipulated to suit whatever/whomever, but from real life experience. When given a choice horses will eat anything else before propionic/acetic treated hay. How would one like to eat what's in one's gut? Taste wise I don't think so, even though it may be nutritious and harmless. At least that has been my experience also shared by others


This is YOUR experience and not reflective of ALL horses.

An interesting read.... https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/around-the-farm/309369-tell-me-about-proprionic-acid-monensin-and-other-hay-preservatives


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't think there is much argument that propionic acid is safe or works when properly used. In my opinion most horses do not like the taste or smell of propionic acid treated hay though. I have been told this by a few different people of whom I trust their opinion. One even said he quit using it after his personal horses did not like the treated hay. Even in the article in the link that endrow posted said that horses preferred the untreated hay over the treated but would eat the treated hay when nothing else was available. Personally I will not treat my hay with propionic acid because of this.

This is my first year using an alternative preservative that has no taste or smell and so far I do think it works well but it is not a silver bullet......but I don't think propionic acid or any other preservative is either.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm going to step away from is thread, but my thought is buffered propionic or some other method for treating hay and the arguments for and against are kind of like impellers vs rollers on a mower conditioners. There are folks with positive experiences for the same crop, different conditioning method. i.e. alfalfa leaf loss/rollers vs impellers - just as there are with horses will or won't like buffered propionic treated hay. For our little haying operation, I'd rather loose a customer than loose a cutting of hay over buffered propionic acid - so we'll keep using it as it is a crop saver. Will the treated hay sell, I'm 100% positive ours will; same customers, who knows. Like I've said, I can explain buffered propionic acid treated hay, I can't explain dusty/moldy hay.

YMMV


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's what these forums are for, learning....no need to step away, just let us know how it works in the long run. Myself, I've considered several methods, but I haven't pulled the trigger on any as of yet, but I can see the advantages very easily. There are times when I could bale at 17-18 but refuse to do so....if I can't get it below 16, it's a no go for me. So it could mean baling or having rained on hay that may cost me a kings ransom to get off the field....at the same time, I don't have that 100% confidence in the product from a resell standpoint that you have...my horsey folks are some finicky people, see "horsey" thread....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of how propionic acid works is that as long as the fumes from the acid are in the hay it keeps it from heating and molding but after the acid starts to dissipate after a while if the hay has not dried down to a safe moisture level by then that it can still spoil and mold.


The propionic kills mold spores, once it dissipates the only way it will mold is if new spores are introduced. I've put away 25-30% hay treated with propionic, it always tested dry when hauled to auction, a seasoned hay buyer could tell something was a little wonky with the bale though.

I've been using Hayguard as of late, very happy with it. Wouldn't go back to propionic, I've had a wee bit of experience with that considering I went thru a tote a year.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Trillium Farm said:


> I can tell you from personal experience that horse DO NOT like proprionic acid hay. Some do get sores, but I don't know if that's due to the acid or the quantity of acid used. Before I use any proprionic treated hay it would have to be the ONLY hay available. Now there are other drying agents out there (can't remember the names) that do as good a job and are not disliked by horses, some people on this panel have used them with great results, if you want to sell hay to horse people better change your drying agent


I do sell hay to horse people. Dry hay. Untreated hay. But, there have been years that my dry hay yield is below my average and If I can't treat it or bag it - it's a loss.

So, as leeave96 stated - treated hay is a "crop saver".


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> This is YOUR experience and not reflective of ALL horses.
> 
> An interesting read.... https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/around-the-farm/309369-tell-me-about-proprionic-acid-monensin-and-other-hay-preservatives


Not only mine, but that of my peers as well, I don't know of ANY situation where GIVEN a CHOICE any horse chose propionic treated hay over non treated or treated with another agent. Why not use hay guard or another agent without acetic content. I'm not against using a preservative only against propionic which was the 1st agent many decades ago, but thankfully better ones have come out to help us cope with bad weather. Let me reiterate that i know it's safe and that i'm only writing about *preferences. *Peace be upon us! * *


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> That's what these forums are for, learning....no need to step away, just let us know how it works in the long run. Myself, I've considered several methods, but I haven't pulled the trigger on any as of yet, but I can see the advantages very easily. There are times when I could bale at 17-18 but refuse to do so....if I can't get it below 16, it's a no go for me. So it could mean baling or having rained on hay that may cost me a kings ransom to get off the field....at the same time, I don't have that 100% confidence in the product from a resell standpoint that you have...my horsey folks are some finicky people, see "horsey" thread....


Some horsey people are really Loopy


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> I'm going to step away from is thread, but my thought is buffered propionic or some other method for treating hay and the arguments for and against are kind of like impellers vs rollers on a mower conditioners. There are folks with positive experiences for the same crop, different conditioning method. i.e. alfalfa leaf loss/rollers vs impellers - just as there are with horses will or won't like buffered propionic treated hay. For our little haying operation, I'd rather loose a customer than loose a cutting of hay over buffered propionic acid - so we'll keep using it as it is a crop saver. Will the treated hay sell, I'm 100% positive ours will; same customers, who knows. Like I've said, I can explain buffered propionic acid treated hay, I can't explain dusty/moldy hay.
> 
> YMMV


I think it's more like what kind of brand of rollers or flail one uses.  Don't step away, this is a forum where one exchanges opinions, experiences and facts, we all learn from one another. Even when we disagree we've always been civil and friendly.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

If I still baled in smalls I could get by without acid . In this part of our county between about seven pf us there are thousands of 3x3 bales move to race track and training barns and some real high end boarding units . Probably nothing for this use is baled over 18% never a problem with 4 to 7 # of acid per ton . Hay has to be sweated out and not shipped from your farm for 30 days post baling . These people want SOFT hay that has no dust ,must , or mold with good color . Any dusty bales you will remove that load refund money and never be called again . They do not say I love acid and all my hay must be treated.But if you took 3x3 big bales and baled them in the manor need to have them sound for horses they would not buy the hay .Having large lots of 3X3 bales sound for horses is a different ball game by a long shot than small lots of small bales.


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

I'd have to say that roughly 70% of our customer's who buy "The Juice" from us sell to either horse owner's or sell to broker's which ultimately gets sold to the end user(horse owner's). We have a customer we ship to in Florida and a majority of his customers are horse owner's. Again, personal preference for sure!


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