# Class 4 & 5 gas powered trucks



## MtnHerd

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the newer class 4 &5 trucks with the gas motors (f450, f550, Ram 4500, Ram 5500)? I know it seems like there are more and more on the road. I test drove a 6.4 hemi Ram 4500 crew cab 4x4 with the Aisin 6 speed automatic a few days ago and it impressed me more than I was expecting, but it also was not pulling a load. I was wondering how these would compare to the v10 in the F450 and F550's with the 5 speed automatic? I know a gentleman that has the Ram 4500 and loves it hauling cattle, hay, and equipment. He says it doesn't pull quite like the 6.7 Cummins he had before that, but it is close. And cost several thousand less and is getting better fuel mileage on average with cheaper fuel. Not really in the market for another truck right now, but getting several miles on my 2003 Duramax and just like to keep options open if it looks like it might become repair prone. Those trucks with the gas engines look to have higher towing (and much higher payload due to higher class truck) than my 3500 flatbed dally.


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## endrow

In the year 2000 we bought a brand new truck Ford F 350 with a 7-3 Powerstroke diesel. We still have the truck and we decided at that point for a truck used on the farm every day running about feeding where you need to turn the engine on and off etc diesel is never the way to go. If you have a big class 4 or class 5 diesel for heavy towing that is great but you will need another truck for you run about daily jobs for sure. We have a Chevy with an Allison transmission and 8.1 gas engine and that truck will do some impressive towing. We also have a Ford f350 V10. A lot of dairy farms around here transition from having all diesel trucks back to having some gasoline engine pickups. I am amused at the people around here that use an F 450 for their daily driver and have never towed or hauled anything a Chevy s10 
Could not tow or all or haul


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## JD3430

The Ford Torqshift is now a 6 speed. Rumored to be going to an 8 speed in upcoming years.
For the most part, diesel engines have lost their advantages over gas engines in all but 3 areas:
Off-pedal torque- diesels make much more torque at lower RPM's to get heavy loads moving. I know I appreciate that when I'm towing 12 tons in stop/go traffic and on hills.
Fuel mileage- diesels still hold a big advantage here, too. They get 20-50% greater fuel economy than their gas counterparts. Buddy of mine has a F-550 V-10 and it gets about 7-8. I.m getting 10-11 with my 6.4L diesel and enjoying the much greater torque.
Longevity- although a gas engine can last a long time, on average diesel engines given proper care, will last longer.

They've lost their reliability advantage they once had and they're now a 7-8K upgrade over big block gas.
I dont really know why anyone would want to tow 10-15 tons with a gas engine. OTR truckers wouldnt touch a gas engine, but if its only carrying heavy weight in the bed or towing smaller loads, then I guess it'd be ok.


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## MtnHerd

Have they changed to the 6 speed in the v10? The ones we have at work are the 5 speed and they are 2015 models. I have not understood why Ford has not changed to the 6 speed in the 450/550 with the v10. You would think it would be cheaper to have one transmission on the assembly line. That would probably help them out, as I know the ones at work seem like they could use tighter ratios to keep a full head of steam. They are crew cab 4x4 with 11' tool beds loaded down and some times pull a mini hoe or skid steer. They do not pull as well as the 6.4's (no 6.7's at work due to all the issues with 6.4's and 6.0's) but get comparable mileage, maybe 1-2 less. With price of diesel they would actually be cheaper on fuel.

I think the big advantage Diesel engines still have is the exhaust/engine brake. I know those seem to work great from the few I have seen. Thought about getting one for mine, but $1,200 is hard for me to put on that truck just now. Although the brakes are so good on class 4 & 5 that maybe those don't come into effect as much.


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## JD3430

Even the older 5 speed torqshifts are really 6 gear transmissions, but they only use 5 of the 6. The newer ones use all 6 behind the diesel. Didn't know gas used only 5. 
I can't even sit in a gas truck used for serious work. I've no use for them.


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## bluefarmer

My 2010 GMC 6.0 gas automatic,avg. 7.2 -8.0 mpg loaded 10 - 15,000 lbs. run it down the interstate empty jumps to 12.5-15. Pulls slower than a diesel but........


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## gearhartfarms82

If ur using the truck all the time i dont see how gas is cheaper. We have one gas truck and as soon as we can it wont be here. Fuel savings it is not. But every operation is different. I know for us the up charge for the deisel is paid for in about a uear and a piece just in fuel savings.


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## 8350HiTech

gearhartfarms82 said:


> If ur using the truck all the time i dont see how gas is cheaper. We have one gas truck and as soon as we can it wont be here. Fuel savings it is not. But every operation is different. I know for us the up charge for the deisel is paid for in about a uear and a piece just in fuel savings.


How many miles in a year?


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## JD3430

I haven't owned a gas truck since the early 90's. They are low on torque, especially at low RPM. If you are hauling large loads of hay, diesel is the only way to go. 
If you aren't, then a gasser is fine. 
If that was wrong, large trucks would have 15L gas engines in them.

Now on the fuel mileage issue, it depends on preference. It's true that it might take a while for a diesel to pay off, but me personally, I don't like having low torque when towing. I like to get the load moving without revving to 6,000RPM. If I have to pay more for fuel to own a diesel to move loads easier, it's worth it to me. I bet OTR truckers would feel the same way, even if they didn't drive 50-100k miles per year. They'd still want a diesel for the quality of driving experience with heavy loads.


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## MtnHerd

That is one of the reasons I started this post, to see if the gas engines had improved enough to be viable in an average farming operation. If you are hauling heavy loads constantly, the torque of the diesel, especially on the low end, is a no brainier. But with the new gas engines making more torque and horsepower than my older diesel and with the lower gears of the class 4 and 5's, could they be as effective as the older Diesel engines. With new diesels being around $10,000 above the gas engines, it starts making you think. I was really wondering if anyone on here had even tried these, especially the Ram 6.4 (although I'm not a fan of the cylinder deactivation). With the loss of fuel economy in the newer diesels and the lower cost of gas per gallon, it just made me wonder if anyone had any real world experience in this matter. I could see the gas motors coming into play in a 60% or less total towing in a year. Just getting others thoughts.


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## bluefarmer

It basically comes down to how fast do you want to go if you are loaded. Personally I don't think it's worth it, I've had 3 cummins and a duramax, I have 2 gas burners now. Dont have anything against them just don't think it's worth the upfront cost and extra maintenance.


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## JD3430

csdeyton said:


> That is one of the reasons I started this post, to see if the gas engines had improved enough to be viable in an average farming operation. If you are hauling heavy loads constantly, the torque of the diesel, especially on the low end, is a no brainier. But with the new gas engines making more torque and horsepower than my older diesel and with the lower gears of the class 4 and 5's, could they be as effective as the older Diesel engines. With new diesels being around $10,000 above the gas engines, it starts making you think. I was really wondering if anyone on here had even tried these, especially the Ram 6.4 (although I'm not a fan of the cylinder deactivation). With the loss of fuel economy in the newer diesels and the lower cost of gas per gallon, it just made me wonder if anyone had any real world experience in this matter. I could see the gas motors coming into play in a 60% or less total towing in a year. Just getting others thoughts.


Agree. I didnt think the delta between gas & diesel was $10,000. Thought it was more like $7,500. Still a lot though.


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## slowzuki

We have a gas and diesel one ton at the moment - an old 5.4 gas and a newish deleted tuned 6.7 diesel. The power difference is amazing but the cost difference would buy another truck. I don't think there any savings to be had with normal farm mileage. The fancy water separators and expensive oil changes and higher price of diesel all negate the increased mileage.


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## Vol

I own both gas and diesel.....both were purchased new....and a diesel truck does not pencil for farm/home use here in the East.....possibly out West where average driving distance is much greater, but even out there I doubt it. It is just hard to watch that gas gauge indicator move like it does when pulling a heavy load. 

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

I wouldnt want to live my whole life by what "pencils out".
Sometimes its little pleasures in life, like being able to pull a load at 1800RPM instead of 5000RPM. Or a little diesel snort. Or John Deere tractor over a different color tractor that although pencils out better, the Deere makes life more enjoyable.
And yes, I still have enough money left for the kids college tuition  

Over the course of 150,000 miles a diesel 550 at 11 MPG and gasser 550 at 8 MPG, my diesel just about pencils out. And after 150,000 miles the engine has a lot more life left in it than a gasser at 150,000 miles, its more fun, and it tows better, and it has much better resale value.. 

I also have no emissions inspection on diesel. 2 inspections a year @ $100 pass/fail, and that's another $200 saved. Less frequent oil changes offset extra oil at each change with a diesel.
One type of fuel makes life simpler at times than gas for truck and diesel for tractors.

All the Deere guys say "buy Deere because it has the best resale value". I buy diesel for same reason.


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## gearhartfarms82

50000 miles and some were in the neigborhood of 1500+ hrs a yr.


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## gearhartfarms82

One big issue for us is the putting around pulling wagons etc. you'll burn 20/25 gallons of gas in a day pulling wagons where you can burn less than 10 running a diesel not to mention the fuel savings on the highway pulling all the time with the diesel it comes down to if you're not running the miles and or hours it would be a lot harder to justify at least for us spark plugs are out


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## FarmerCline

I test drove a Dodge 3500 cab and chassis with the 6.4 hemi and Aisin auto about a month ago and was pretty impressed. Really wanted a diesel but the initial higher purchase cost and the fact that for just hauling hay a few miles from the field to barn and running errands around town I decided it was going to be hard to justify a diesel so I decided to look at a gas burner. The only thing that I wasn't so sure is if I would like the gas truck for the occasional load of hay I would haul long distance but that would only be a few times a year. I came real close to buying that truck but at the end of the day I realized that for no more driving that I actually do that I could make do with what I have now for a little longer because the money would be better spent on some better hay equipment and more hay storage.


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## JD3430

FarmerCline said:


> I test drove a Dodge 3500 cab and chassis with the 6.4 hemi and Aisin auto about a month ago and was pretty impressed. Really wanted a diesel but the initial higher purchase cost and the fact that for just hauling hay a few miles from the field to barn and running errands around town I decided it was going to be hard to justify a diesel so I decided to look at a gas burner. The only thing that I wasn't so sure is if I would like the gas truck for the occasional load of hay I would haul long distance but that would only be a few times a year. I came real close to buying that truck but at the end of the day I realized that for no more driving that I actually do that I could make do with what I have now for a little longer because the money would be better spent on some better hay equipment and more hay storage.


I don't doubt it was an impressive truck, but that's without a lot of weight behind it. Once you get it home and load it down with a big trailer, you might not feel same.
Of course that's irrelevant if you're not towing heavy regularly.


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## FarmerCline

JD3430 said:


> I don't doubt it was an impressive truck, but that's without a lot of weight behind it. Once you get it home and load it down with a big trailer, you might not feel same.
> Of course that's irrelevant if you're not towing heavy regularly.


 That's true and why I was a little apprehensive if I would have liked it when I do tow the occasional load a longer distance. But for hauling heavy loads of hay 1-15 miles from the field to the barn I feel that it would have been just fine for that......heck I do that now with a 1995 chevy 3500 that has a 350 in it.


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## MtnHerd

I have heard that the trucks using the def fluid get a lot better milage than the regular egr in the previous generation of diesels. I have a friend that that went from 6.4 powerstroke to 6.7 and is much happier with his fuel mileage. But it also cost him a higher premium. I know he was upset that his brother had a v10 getting the same mileage as his 6.4. Anyone with any knowledge on if def is helping?


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## somedevildawg

csdeyton said:


> I have heard that the trucks using the def fluid get a lot better milage than the regular egr in the previous generation of diesels. I have a friend that that went from 6.4 powerstroke to 6.7 and is much happier with his fuel mileage. But it also cost him a higher premium. I know he was upset that his brother had a v10 getting the same mileage as his 6.4. Anyone with any knowledge on if def is helping?


The DEF doesn't help with mileage but the newer generation engines are the ones that use DEF and they are much more fuel efficient......the 6.4 was a guzzler compared to the 6.7. Of course one (6.4) is made by International and the 6.7 made by FoMoCo. All of the newer engines are getting better mileage, but it comes at a price in both longevity and price......


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## BWfarms

Hands down diesel. Why is there even an argument? I'm guessing it's because some are not true haulers. Before you get your panties in a bunch. How is a diesel not suitable for eastern guys? We have a lot of hills, curves, and more stop and go. I'll prefer my 6.7 Cummins any day over any gasser. Can anybody get by with gas? Sure.

I want power when I go up hills, around curves, and from a dead stop. Most importantly a diesel will help control your loads better. You need the exhaust braking in hilly terrain. Not all ag trailers/wagons have electric brakes. Pair an electric brake equipped trailer and diesel exhaust braking (and the trucks), you will better control your load.

The initial price is there but beating 11-15 mpg hauling (load dependent) and 21-22 highway in a diesel. (I can get 17 on long interstate hauls) You can kiss my grits and write about it. The way I pencil it, my initial investment and yearly maintenance costs me .18 cents a mile.


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## JD3430

I didn't even think about the exhaust brakes
Another reason I should have listed!


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## slowzuki

Helps indirectly as you don't need "super" egr cooling the peak temps/pressures. NOx is formed by the exact same high temp that a diesel needs for efficiency. DEF after treat lets you make the NOx then treat it.



somedevildawg said:


> The DEF doesn't help with mileage but the newer generation engines are the ones that use DEF and they are much more fuel efficient......the 6.4 was a guzzler compared to the 6.7. Of course one (6.4) is made by International and the 6.7 made by FoMoCo. All of the newer engines are getting better mileage, but it comes at a price in both longevity and price......


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## slowzuki

Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!

Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:

Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.

Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.

Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.

Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.



BWfarms said:


> some are not true haulers.


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!
> 
> Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:
> Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.
> Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.
> Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.
> Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.


The 6.4L diesel engine in my F-550 weighs 1,130lbs.
A Ford V-10 weighs 650lbs.
That's a 480lb difference, not 1,000lbs.
I dont know where you come up with this stuff.

Putting a plow on a 350-550 means you're adding about another 1,000lbs. Front axle ratings on 350-550 are 6,000-7,000lbs. Plow is no trouble at all. They're equipped with "plow packages" which means the truck is built and warranted from Ford for plowing.
Fumes in garage? New 6.7L is certified clean idle. Cant get much cleaner than that!
Gelling? Add power service- no gelling.

I don't like to stop/start-wears out engine faster. You can leave a diesel running and it'll consume much less fuel that a gas engine at idle. Now I wouldn't idle for more than 5 minutes because its not good for the engine.


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## gearhartfarms82

Def by far makes things better. Tier 3 emisons trucks suck on mpg hands down. The def made tier 4 trucks basicaly back to the same mpg as tier 2 trucks. Def is also dirt cheap. Or you can delete it if u want. With these new diesels there is no advantage to gas in the winter. Mine will start at -20 all day long with out being pluged in. We have a gas truck inour fleet and the only advantage it has is stoping at the gas station more each day (the guys like that). The air coming out of tier 4 trucks is cleaner than the air u breath in new york city. Also on gelling, if u buy good fuel to start with you dont have that problem. No walmart/kroger fuel. I pay an extra 9k giver take and dont think twice for my duramaxes. I can recoupe that in just about a yrs time. Expecaly when the gas and deisel were in the 4$ range. Little longer at the 2$ range but still its a no brainer if u are going to truly use ur truck. If ur getting groceries the gas might be a better bet if thats what u want.


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## JD3430

If you do a delete on a DPF diesel truck, they get excellent fuel mileage and increased longevity.


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## SVFHAY

You guys are amusing. Lets agree diesel is nicer. The original premise is comparing new or very late model. Lets say you don't stroke a check for 50k and finance it. What is that additional cost REALLY costing you since 7-10k extra is going to make your payment book a little thicker. Would you finance a delete?

Drive whatever you want. I have to compromise sometimes.


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## slowzuki

Take for example a 2004 f350 - 4400 lb front axle rating on most 4x4 models. Maxed out model was 5200 lb. the diesel model had little reserve capacity.

The 2010s had a range from 4200 to 6000 lb but most seem to come 5200 lb. I think you needed the super 60 tow boss or something package to get the higher rating and it's pretty rare.


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## gearhartfarms82

I wish I had the money so I didn't have to finance my trucks make life a nicer. It is all going to come down to how much you use your truck I have a 6.0 gas or that will pull just as good as the 6.6 Duramax but it takes a lot longer the squirrels are wound tight and at the end of the day it drinks a lot more fuel. On average there is 5mpg difference between gas and diesel on our trucks loaded or empty across the board. On 50000 miles a yr thats at least 3-4k difference in fuel cost a yr just in milage not including idle time. So at the end of the day saving the 8k buying gas truck on 5 yrs loan will actually cost u 7k more just in fuel cost at the end of 5 yrs at what our prices are here for fuel.

Now if ur only running 10000 miles or some other figure that might be a different story. But for our operation buying cheaper gas trucks cost me more money at the end of the day.

You figure minus the motors and torque converters in the autos if ur buying 1 tons or bigger all the other drive train components are the same with in each manufacturer. Your gas motors are a few hundred pounds lighter, will pull just as much, and run just as well. It comes down to how fast u want to do it and how much u truly use ur truck for pulling.

Not trying to sound like a smart a$$ but ive tried to pencil it many ways. I used to run gas trucks and once i swallowed the jump and the price tag my bottom line increased a couple pennies at the end of the day.


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## slowzuki

What are you doing with your farm pickup to put that many km a year on? That is exceptionally high mileage on a farm truck. Does your state let you haul out of state with farm plates?



gearhartfarms82 said:


> On 50000 miles a yr


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## gearhartfarms82

Farms spread out is one killer (35 miles from one end to other), but we deliver all of our product and then more on top of that. All of our hay is kept at two places so we haul from field to barn more than most. We haul all of our own supplies, gravel, cattle, ect. Before we did hay we was still running around 30,000 miles. Were not as bad as out west but nothing close it seems like and getting ground right next door is impossible.

U can use farm tags to deliver out of state with, us dot numer, ifta tags, and urc. Seems to be that way with most states but trying to find someone who knows anything about farm tags and going out of state is a nightmare.


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## JD3430

gearhartfarms82 said:


> Farms spread out is one killer (35 miles from one end to other), but we deliver all of our product and then more on top of that. All of our hay is kept at two places so we haul from field to barn more than most. We haul all of our own supplies, gravel, cattle, ect. Before we did hay we was still running around 30,000 miles. Were not as bad as out west but nothing close it seems like and getting ground right next door is impossible.
> 
> U can use farm tags to deliver out of state with, us dot numer, ifta tags, and urc. Seems to be that way with most states but trying to find someone who knows anything about farm tags and going out of state is a nightmare.


I got apportioned tags and I'm done with worrying about crossing state lines


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## BWfarms

slowzuki said:


> Of course we are not true haulers, if I was I'd be trucking instead!
> 
> Not mentioned are a few other benefits of gas:
> Gas truck starts easily all winter, no wait to start, no wait to shut down. No gelling, no overloading of the front axle by putting a plow on.
> Don't feel bad starting and stopping engine while fencing, feeding, using truck as scafolding, etc.
> Don't instantly fill shop with fumes when you back in to load stuff on the back. This is another mainly winter issue when you're trying to keep the heat inside and don't want to leave the doors open.
> Less ruts in the fields due to the almost 1000 lbs less on the front axle.


Let's get back to the OP, it's a heavier class designed for hauling, you want every ounce of power you can get. If you're using the hauling truck as a chore truck you need to invest in a beater. I use my diesel for hauling and the occasional "light" job around the farm. I use my gasser for the short jumps, quick fixes, etc. Mostly I use a 4 wheeler for fencing.

This kind of brings back the posting, "How many trucks do you need?"
The dedicated hauler, dedicated chore truck, and the misc broken trucks lol


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## JD3430

I think we're overlooking something very significant: many of us buy used trucks. Many of those used trucks we buy could have 50, 100 + thousand miles on them. Diesel engine powered used trucks given similar care to a gas truck would last longer.


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## gearhartfarms82

Jd3430. We cant buy those tags. We have to buy commercial tags at a nice cheap price.


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## gearhartfarms82

And thats also throws us into commercial insurance


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## gearhartfarms82

I think many are right. So many variables for allot of people when it comes to trucks. For some of us its a little easier to come up with a solution. All comes down to what u want and like.


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## JD3430

gearhartfarms82 said:


> Jd3430. We cant buy those tags. We have to buy commercial tags at a nice cheap price.


They're about the same cost as standard state registration tags in PA.


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## slowzuki

I'm fighting with our insurance company right now about that, they want commercial insurance policy and another coverage for personal use of a commercial vehicle. 700$ per truck up to 2200$ per truck and lose coverage of trailers hitched to the truck. They have to be insured separate.



gearhartfarms82 said:


> And thats also throws us into commercial insurance


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## slowzuki

Or if I use the tractor the liability for the same radius of travel from the home address is 68$ per year.


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## gearhartfarms82

120 vs 580 1 ton
250 vs 2000+ semi

Insurance is 600$ vs 5000$ giver take. Welcome to ohio

But i can run farm plates get usdot, ifta, and urc and go outa state and just have to run comercial ins


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## gearhartfarms82

Slowzuki. Once u hit commercial plates and cross state lines ur stuck to commercial ins. Thats part of the boc 3 sorta stupid for all of us but seems like no way out. If someone knows how im all ears


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## slowzuki

Talked to several insurers now, and the insurance watch dog, the insurer only has to underwrite what he wants to, a client has no way to force them into offering a non-commercial policy. As soon as I said delivery of hay to folks that was it. Once the broker asked the underwriter the question they flagged my account and said I'll never be able to avoid commercial from them in the future.

Next place I called I didn't give my name but got the same answer. Found one last place that has a farm policy for limited radius of operation but they want my personal vehicles, farm liability and house policy too. Not too sure about that.



gearhartfarms82 said:


> Slowzuki. Once u hit commercial plates and cross state lines ur stuck to commercial ins. Thats part of the boc 3 sorta stupid for all of us but seems like no way out. If someone knows how im all ears


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> Talked to several insurers now, and the insurance watch dog, the insurer only has to underwrite what he wants to, a client has no way to force them into offering a non-commercial policy. As soon as I said delivery of hay to folks that was it. Once the broker asked the underwriter the question they flagged my account and said I'll never be able to avoid commercial from them in the future.
> 
> Next place I called I didn't give my name but got the same answer. *Found one last place that has a farm policy for limited radius of operation but they want my personal vehicles, farm liability and house policy too. Not too sure about that.*


Thats what I have (Nationwide Agribusiness). I shopped it around. Couldn't find much better/cheaper, but I'd like to.


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## gearhartfarms82

Insurance is a legalized moffia. We tried nationwide agri buss and that was a joke. But id say it comes down to each opperation and each aggent. But i feel all your pain. Just makes me move a few more bales. Sad part is u are pentilized for moving ur own product. But having to rely on other shipere gets to be a pain.


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## JD3430

gearhartfarms82 said:


> Insurance is a legalized moffia. We tried nationwide agri buss and that was a joke. But id say it comes down to each opperation and each aggent. But i feel all your pain. Just makes me move a few more bales. Sad part is u are pentilized for moving ur own product. But having to rely on other shipere gets to be a pain.


If my insurance is a joke (and everyone else with them), can you tell me who you have so I can get on board with your insurance?


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## gearhartfarms82

By no means is mine any better. Like i said above it comes down to each opperation and each agent. Nationwide was one of the highest for me. Around here i can name a few people who had it never filed clains and then filed one claim and then was droped. Mines a independent broker and they use grange and ohio mutial. Now with that said we are shopping right now for the trucks to find something cheaper. One problem we have is we are to deversified and no insurance co likes to insure all of the peices.


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## JD3430

I tried Goodville Mutual Insurance and they were more expensive. I talked to fellow farmers in the area (they will still talk to me even though I refer to cows as cattle  ) and they all use Nationwide. I'm pretty much on my own, so thats all the information I had. Also, I own a barn/garage building business too, so they were pretty reasonable on that cost.
Shopping insurance isnt an easy process. I think they know that and make the paperwork discourage switching.


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## endrow

Jd if you use a Nationwide AgrI in our area Farm Bureau members get an additional discount I would imagine that would be the same for your area as well


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## BWfarms

I was originally with State Farm. House, vehicles, and a 10' Bush Hog (because I financed it). All other farm equipment I had was paid for and didn't feel I needed insurance. I needed a round baler insured, found out State Farm didn't insure Ag equipment anymore. I asked why was my Rotary Mower insured, their response,"Oh, we insured that as personal use." I told them to insure it as personal use and they said they couldn't do that. Well I told them we can't do business anymore.

Went to Farm Bureau and took everything to them, on top added extra policies and the cost was still less. Not entirely sure if it is better coverage but the guy made it sound that way. Guess what? State Farm said they will do anything to gain my business back, even make an exception. See, they can change what they want, they just need someone to push.


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## JD3430

endrow said:


> Jd if you use a Nationwide AgrI in our area Farm Bureau members get an additional discount I would imagine that would be the same for your area as well


Yeah I did that. Still seems like a lot of $$


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