# Are recently manufactured small sq balers faster?



## brazelt (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi, New to this forum. Great resource. Just bought a farm and purchasing equipment. We'll have about 80 ac in hay each year.

My dad has a NH 320 sm sq baler that we've always been pleased with. So I thought I'd get something similar. But the dealer is telling me that a NH 575 he has or new 5070 can process a windrow three times faster than a 320 (i.e, 3000 bales/ day with 575 vs 1000 with 320). I haven't worked behind any new balers recently but this claim seems questionable to me. On the other hand, if true, that is a compelling reason for me to spend more. What's do you think? Is there a source listing baling rates for common balers?
Thanks, Tim


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

The only older baler i can compaire to is my old 327 jd, It baled good and made a nice bale but it wore out and sold it, I now have a BC 5070, Its an animal compared to the 327, If i had 7 hours of non stop baling i would think it would be no problem to have 3000 plus bales on the ground at the end of the day, Now this is going to depend on how good your hay is too, Thin hay may be a problem to get that many, but it is a good baler.
THOMAS


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

With the newer New Holland balers, 500+ 50lb bales per hour is a very achievable average in a good crop.


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## Charlie N (Dec 6, 2009)

Your lookin at 90 strokes per minute,13 flakes in a bale=7 bales per minute x 60 minutes=420 per hour.That would be on a 39 inch bale.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

A 5070 is nearly the same as the 575, and the 575 is close to the 320. You can do 3000 in one day with a 575/5070, I have heard of guys doing around 4500, but that is a LONG day. 2500 is very comforatable - you are not pushing anything - baler, tractor, driver. Why will the 320 only do 1000 per day? The feeder? You basically have the same pickup and the same knotters, the only real difference would be in the feeder..... You can't compare the 320 to any other color, they are just too different.

Rodney


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

The only thing that comes to my mind here and I honestly am not not being being rude to anyone. " A fool and his money soon part." With that being said, I will give you an example of what I mean. I have a neighbor who bought an SBX 5?? two years ago and paid $28k for it. Has a belt thrower on it and does roughly 150ac annually. The same year, I bought a decent NH 316 with the JD style "ejector". I paid $3400. They both do the same exact thing, not equally as fast, but if planned properly I can easily bale 1300-1500 bales daily. You have to bale a LOT of hay to re-pay that $28k vs $3400. I look at it in a different light than most probably, but I feel if you understand your baler and set it up correctly, you will be just as efficient as someone with all the shiny new paint. As much as I would love to have a new 5070 sitting in my barn right now, I KNOW that my baler will bale day in and day out, and I will not have a payment at the endo of the month. I run 360 ac twice a year through mine or roughly 25-30k bales and have little troubles. I mow and rake to fit my baler's needs. I think raking is the key to making a good consistent bale. For 80 acres I think a 5070 is overkill both machine and $$wise. My whole point is..yes my neighbor has a brand new machine that is supposed to run circles around me, but at the end of every day, I seem to be pulling in just as much if not more than he does. My bales are better looking and my customers pay 2x more for my hay than his. Hay quality is not the topic, but my bales are just as nice for $25,000 less. I am no expert, but just want to give you honest opinion, hope nobody was offended...Thanks


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

Brazelt: You would be hard pressed to find a used BC5070 since they just came out in 2008. There are a good many 575's out there but there holding a good price for them. I bought a new BC5070 last year and I got a great trade in for my baler. 09 and 2010 are and were great years to buy new, the programs and discounts are outstanding. I asked the same question last year and BCFence and Rodney I felt went out of there way to help me. They both have this baler and said I could not go wrong. To start out with a good baler 5070 or 575 is something you probably won't regret. Either one of these balers will most likley be the last baler you ever buy. 80 acres of hay isn't large but not real small either. If you have the means you won't look back and kick yourself if you purchased one of these units. Richard


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## brazelt (Mar 13, 2010)

What a great forum! Thank you all for your advice. You all made helpful points. Hayboy's argument seems the most compelling to me and fits with my original thinking that with my Dad's NH 320 we too always seemed to end up with a good pile of bales by the end of the day. I think I'll go for the 320 and worst case is I trade it back in for a more expensive baler. Thanks again, Tim


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Hayboy1 said:


> The only thing that comes to my mind here and I honestly am not not being being rude to anyone. " A fool and his money soon part." With that being said, I will give you an example of what I mean. I have a neighbor who bought an SBX 5?? two years ago and paid $28k for it. Has a belt thrower on it and does roughly 150ac annually. The same year, I bought a decent NH 316 with the JD style "ejector". I paid $3400. They both do the same exact thing, not equally as fast, but if planned properly I can easily bale 1300-1500 bales daily. You have to bale a LOT of hay to re-pay that $28k vs $3400. I look at it in a different light than most probably, but I feel if you understand your baler and set it up correctly, you will be just as efficient as someone with all the shiny new paint. As much as I would love to have a new 5070 sitting in my barn right now, I KNOW that my baler will bale day in and day out, and I will not have a payment at the endo of the month. I run 360 ac twice a year through mine or roughly 25-30k bales and have little troubles. I mow and rake to fit my baler's needs. I think raking is the key to making a good consistent bale. For 80 acres I think a 5070 is overkill both machine and $$wise. My whole point is..yes my neighbor has a brand new machine that is supposed to run circles around me, but at the end of every day, I seem to be pulling in just as much if not more than he does. My bales are better looking and my customers pay 2x more for my hay than his. Hay quality is not the topic, but my bales are just as nice for $25,000 less. I am no expert, but just want to give you honest opinion, hope nobody was offended...Thanks


Given the weather windows we had last year, if we had been baling 1500 per day, our total small square output would have been more than halved. 52,000 to 25,000 from our 320 acres 
Not only would that have drastically reduced our revenue but also significantly increased our cost. We would have had to pay custom round/large square baler cost to make a package that was worth half/ton of what a small square bale is.
Obviously we all have differing opinions but to me baler output/hour is very important and I think we have justified many times over the extra cost of that higher capacity.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

I have a NH 575 baler with hydraulic pick up and hydraulic side to side and hydraulic bale pressure. My cost new was $18,000. I bale at 2.1 mph. If I pull the baler much faster I tend to drop more bales, and the consistency of bales vary more.

I suppose you can jump in any tractor and pull a baler down the field at high speeds. I find that most of my slowup is caused by actually getting out of the tractor and checking bale weight, bale moisture, p breaks, and just walking around the equipment and making sure parts aren't falling off of the tractor and baler once in a while. That gives me about 100 bales an hour.


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

MikeRF said:


> Given the weather windows we had last year, if we had been baling 1500 per day, our total small square output would have been more than halved. 52,000 to 25,000 from our 320 acres
> Not only would that have drastically reduced our revenue but also significantly increased our cost. We would have had to pay custom round/large square baler cost to make a package that was worth half/ton of what a small square bale is.
> Obviously we all have differing opinions but to me baler output/hour is very important and I think we have justified many times over the extra cost of that higher capacity.


 I encountered the same problem with small windows fo weather last year as well, but I run two balers simultaneously which seems to help. I am not disputing the reputation and numbers of the newer balers, I am just stating that on 80 acres a 320 would do just fine. I honestly do not think even an $18k baler would be justifiable on that amount of land. If you think back 15 yrs ago, the 320 was a pretty darn good baler which would pile up a bunch at the end of the day. I do understand everyone's operation, weather patterns, and methods are all different, but at the end of the day all our goals are the same and we all feel the same pride and good feeling when the hay is in the barn when it is getting ready to storm. I love the feeling of sitting on my porch with a cold one on a friday night when it starts to sprinkle and I know I got everything in and under cover.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

nwfarmer said:


> I have a NH 575 baler with hydraulic pick up and hydraulic side to side and hydraulic bale pressure. My cost new was $18,000. I bale at 2.1 mph. If I pull the baler much faster I tend to drop more bales, and the consistency of bales vary more.
> 
> I suppose you can jump in any tractor and pull a baler down the field at high speeds. I find that most of my slowup is caused by actually getting out of the tractor and checking bale weight, bale moisture, p breaks, and just walking around the equipment and making sure parts aren't falling off of the tractor and baler once in a while. That gives me about 100 bales an hour.


I agree with your speed argument but is there any reason why you couldn't double up your windrows?
For the same forward speed you double your workrate/output and halve your fuel bill. Your baler is more than capable.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes, with the 575 I find I have to slow down a lot or it clogs if I double up wind rows. Plus the raking time adds into it also. I use a 16 ft swather.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Hayboy1 said:


> I encountered the same problem with small windows fo weather last year as well, but I run two balers simultaneously which seems to help. I am not disputing the reputation and numbers of the newer balers, I am just stating that on 80 acres a 320 would do just fine. I honestly do not think even an $18k baler would be justifiable on that amount of land. If you think back 15 yrs ago, the 320 was a pretty darn good baler which would pile up a bunch at the end of the day. I do understand everyone's operation, weather patterns, and methods are all different, but at the end of the day all our goals are the same and we all feel the same pride and good feeling when the hay is in the barn when it is getting ready to storm. I love the feeling of sitting on my porch with a cold one on a friday night when it starts to sprinkle and I know I got everything in and under cover.


Ill tell you my experience with my old baler, The 327 i had may have had 200 thousand bales through it, The last year i ran it i spent more time walking behind it working on it. Then i would end up calling my neighbor to come roll hay that i had sold for 5 dollars a bale. I dont raise the volume of hay that some of you guys do but i do have 120 acres of alfalfa/ orchardgrass. I usally have a very short window to cut and bale hay, when its time to bale hay you better have top notch equipment, I know new balers break too, but the odds are less. By taking chances with old equipment i could lose enough hay in one day to by a baler. If your happy with what you got thats your business, But im not going to take that chance. Im not trying to be hard on you or smart im just saying how i fell or my situation, Thanks for reading.


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

BC...believe me, I do understand what you are saying, and like I said, I would absolutely LOVE to have a new baler sitting in my barn. Is it cost productive to be reassured? In a way I do see your point. I guess maybe I am kinda like a cowboy in takin chances and hoping I can trot through the season vs sprint. But we try and maintain everything so it is up and running, and I ALWAYS have a spare baler for parts somewhere around!! I am making light of the topic now only because I know it will be a year or two before I upgrade again. My whole point is for 80 acres I would never spend that much on a new baler for 8-10k bales, especially if it were for my own animals. Either way I go to bed tired every night after a good workout from haying, whether it be physically, mentally or both. I realize everyone has a different operation, and I continually strive to get better every season. I am only 36, and obviously don't have all the answers, but I definetly respect your opinions and everyone elses on here as well...


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I mean consistent number of strokes per bale not mph along the ground. 
I do not see any problem baling two 16 ft windrows thrown together, if you have a low enough set of gears. With a small square baler the key is 15 strokes per bale. Keep you PTO RPM's at 540 or what ever you find works. For me it is close to 590 PTO RPM's. I have a more or less synchronize set of gears & two ranges. If necessary I have a tractor with a Low range also and can drop to a crawl. 
It would be nice to have a Hydro Drive and be able to fine tune the ground speed, but I just change go down a gear when I get below 12 strokes per bale, and go up a gear when it is more than 18 strokes per bale.

My little NH 315 in theory will bale 350 bales an hour. Getting down to check bale weights and lengths does reduce that some. In my two hours of baling I usually get 450 to 525 bales on the ground. The two hours starts when the humidity is 65% at the windrow. Cured hay will have 18 to 20% bale moisture at that humidity. I normally run out of hay about the time the hay is baling at about 14% bale moisture. That is 8 acres of alfalfa hay or 6 acres of bermudagrass hay.

There are some occasion when I am baling at less than 1 mph and other times I am baling in 7 th gear at 10 mph. Each has it's own challenges and rewards. Baling for the public I have actually pulled the baler and was baling hay, sort of, in road gear, 15 mph for that tractor. That is real thin hay, and some of those bales were so loose and long that I had to go back and rebale them. 
The most comfortable is to bale in 2 nd gear at 2.5 mph. Just a little faster than the pick up wants to pick up hay. The hay is running at about 16 % moisture, the baler is tying a bale ever 13 strokes, there is a nice breeze blowing any dust away from the tractor, and the water jug is full of cool water.

In case it has not been mentioned the raking is the key to easy baling.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

I have been on both sides of this issue. We run two balers, both inline. One we bought new and the other used. The used one had low bales and was a good deal. Both have been good balers. I think that running or owning two balers is a huge advantage, cuz when one is broke down, the other is still baling. I don't know if I would buy brand new on 80 acres, there are alot of low bale used balers out there for a good price, you just might have to search a bit.


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

That is kind of what I have been trying to say in a nutshell...Thanks for simplifying my response!!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

On the one hand, if the baler breaks down at 12:01PM on Saturday, and it could be dropping 300/hour @ 4.50 in 2 4 hour baling afternoons, you will have lost $10,800. If it rains on monday, you will be really mad. However, if you have 2 balers and you bought both of them right, and they have been gone over very well, you might be in good shape and have some money in your pocket. But 2 balers requires 2 drivers, 2 tractors, twice the fuel, and more room to store. I can see both arguements. I know where I will be - you have to figure out how much each bale is worth, and how much downtime is going to cost you. The baler never breaks in the shed - the only time it breaks is when it's being put to work.

Back to my orignal question..... I'm really showing ignorance here..... was the 320 the largest machine of it's time? Can you only get 100 bales/hour out of the thing? Why? I know the 5070 will do 400+ an hour, 300 bales an hour is like a walk in the park. If the 320 will only do 100, step up to a 575 - get one with the actual tire on the pickup, they are the newest. A 570 is almost the same, but has a narrower pickup.

Rodney


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## gold642 (Jun 30, 2009)

I think the biggest new holland in the 420 series was the 426 . It is similar to the 575. It has the 18x16 camber. 93 strokes a minute. I have a 426 and it is a hay eating machine compared to the neighbors 276. I also run a nh br740a round baler and i can almost keep up with the 426. The 426 needs at least 100 horsepower to operate it to capacity.


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