# Tragedy in NE



## ANewman

Guys please take a moment out of your busy schedule and say a prayer for the victims families of this senseless act
http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=17973836&sid=81 http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=17973836&sid=81


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## kyfred

Thanks ANewman


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## Vol

Yes ANewman, we all need to remember the victims families....I just can't imagine having to deal with this madness.

Regards, Mike


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## urednecku

Pure sick.


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## JD3430

My kids go to a school like that.
We have a few "loose cannons" in our neighborhood.
I feel like we are at a time and place where we need to identify these types of individuals and let the authorities know about them.
I mean, I'm all for preserving our freedoms, but too many times after these horriffic crimes are committed, we find out there were many, many early indictators that there was someone who was ready to snap.


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## urednecku

JD, I think every neighborhood has those, and it's gonna be impossible to get them all before some acts.
A lot of American's have the "ostrich" approach, "hide your head in the sand and it won't happen here". Problem is it does, way too often. I get a newsletter that has some interesting common-sense articles, and if we could get main-stream media (much less power-greedy politicians) to get their head outta their a$$ long enough to look at, and publish, some truth, maybe we could stop some of these sicko's before they did so much damage.

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/6065056-Newtown-shooting-Stopping-the-active-shooter/

http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/?fb_ref=homepage


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## ANewman

urednecku said:


> Pure sick.


Pure EVIL!

When I heard this news this afternoon I was angry.I thought about how it would affect me if I got the call these parents did today. My little girl just turned one a couple weeks ago,I would be devastated to say the least.

One reason schools, gov't buildings,etc. are easy targets is they are " gun free zones". If the shooters in these cases knew there could be someone there to shoot back it "might" deter some of them.


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## somedevildawg

The problem with humans is our own animalistic traits, egged on by super violent games where the gorier the better, and killing each other has no consequence. And the dumbass NRA, of which I'm not a member, when called for a statement says " until we learn the facts, we r not going to comment". Wth, I'll tell you the facts, a guy walked into a school and killed 20 something people! Surely you can issue a statement of condolences, bunch of bozos. Just a horrible act of violence......and yea you can bet there was something in his past that foretold this tragedy, just glad he killed himself.....would have rather had someone do it for him before he took all of those innocent lives......my prayers will be with the victims and survivors


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## mlappin

It's sad, nothing but.

My wife was crying after she seen it on the news.

I check in on several leftist sites with the theory of keep your friends close and you enemy's even closer. Not much sympathy there but most think this is the perfect opportunity to push further gun bans. Which is laughable at best, if somebody is that sick in the head are they really going to follow the law if guns are banned?

Some of the tin foil hat wearing folks think its a government conspiracy to further along the UN gun ban.


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## swmnhay

Very sad situation.

I've never understood how these people can kill innocent children.


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## JD3430

Someone made the suggestion that the schools should consult, screen and hire retired or off duty cops and have 1 or 2 patrol the schools. Might make a pretty formidable deterent if a shooter *knows *there'll be someone there who might shoot back.
Maybe schools oughta consider doing this.
I know lots of cops that work at bars and other events to provide security. I used to bounce at concerts tossing drunks off the stage. We had off duty cops there in case it got real ugly.


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## mlappin

Israel has armed teachers instead...

http://johnrlott.blo...-attack-in.html

http://www.wnd.com/2009/03/91528/


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## urednecku

mlappin said:


> Israel has armed teachers instead...
> 
> http://johnrlott.blo...-attack-in.html
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2009/03/91528/


This is one of the times I like another countries laws better than I like ours.

THANK YOU, mlappin, for posting it!!!


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## IslandBreeze

JD, I had heard yesterday a guy say the same thing, that they should hire cops on disability or retired cops. He was saying that cops would make more on working than on disability & that he has all the training for it already. I totally agree. I think there is guys that can't chase down robbers because of injuries but they could walk the halls of schools & watch video cameras just fine. What about unemployed soldiers that are back from the war? If they are mentally stable I would want that guy protecting my kids every day of the week. I had a refresher talk with my kids yesteday about it. I have a 10 & 15 year old set of girls & I had a talk with them when they were young about if this ever happened you either run or jump out of a window if u can or if ur stuck n the room & shooting starts you play dead. It brought tears to my eyes yesterday talking to them about it.

The good thing about my daughter in high school is each room has a automatic door lock that u have to b buzzed in from the hallway & the school is staffed with a full time police officer. The bad thing is if anything ever happened on the opposite side of the school it would take the cop at least a minute to get there. I just hope this never happens again but it probably will unfortunately.


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## JD3430

urednecku said:


> This is one of the times I like another countries laws better than I like ours.
> 
> THANK YOU, mlappin, for posting it!!!


You want to know something pretty unbelievable? My wife and I hosted the teacher's Christmas party at our home yesterday right after school. I had 50 union teachers in my home last night.
Union/anti-union feelings aside, we all talked about the tragedy. I spoke with the 4 male teachers at my wife's school. None were willing to carry a gun. Unfortunately, they all tow the union/liberal party line and are anti-gun. no matter how well i articualted the fact that the bad guys have or can get guns easily, they all were convinced gun control was the answer.

I don't think most teachers are natural "gun carriers". I think you leave the teaching to the teachers and let a "pro" carry the gun and concentrate on protection.
I say put 2 retired or disabled cops with walkie talkies in the school and everyone could maybe relax a little more.
If a teacher carries the gun and god-forbid they have to use it, they may not have the training & the spine to face down a mass murderer and put a bullet in his/her head!!


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## slowzuki

Israel is different, everyone has served in the military. The main problem with arming every teacher in the US is there will be more accidental shootings and kids getting ahold of guns in schools. We have aging teachers in schools mixed with young new teachers. Screening and training all these people adequately to provide effective and safe protection isn't really feasible.


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## gradyjohn

I am a teacher ... I am not the norm. Most educators are liberal ... they fall under the catagory of government employee. You can be a sorry teacher ... give all the kids 100's and still keep your job. Get a DWI, accused of fondeling a kid, or something like that and you will be gone. I am conservative. I would carry a gun. At the schools I work at they do have a cop on every campus and occasionally they cuff a kid and take them off. There are two school districts in Texas that have selective teachers that carry guns.

I graduated high school in 61. We had guns on racks in the back of the trucks. Most of the time they were probably loaded. Of course, we were taught how to use and safety. We were also given posterior impressions when we messed up. Many times I got licks at school ... mom and dad never new ... because I would get more when I got home. We were taught respect for others or pay the penalty. Boys got into a fight ... they put the gloves on and duked it out in the gym. Kids nowdays are spoiled and I find the ones I have a problems with at school ... run the house at home.

Just as a side note, I went to Academy Sports today and the counter where the guns were was packed. People waiting to be waiting on. Getting there guns before Congress passes some stupid law. They are doing a great job of policing illegal drugs ... yea right??????


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## mlappin

Israel is definitely different. They are used to the fact that some people don't like them and would happily kill if given the chance. I imagine liberals in Israel are as about as numerous as unicorns.


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## Mike120

urednecku said:


> JD, I think every neighborhood has those, and it's gonna be impossible to get them all before some acts.
> A lot of American's have the "ostrich" approach, "hide your head in the sand and it won't happen here". Problem is it does, way too often. I get a newsletter that has some interesting common-sense articles, and if we could get main-stream media (much less power-greedy politicians) to get their head outta their a$$ long enough to look at, and publish, some truth, maybe we could stop some of these sicko's before they did so much damage.
> 
> http://www.policeone...active-shooter/
> 
> http://www.policeone...fb_ref=homepage


It's interesting to me how left-leaning politicians and our fine mainstream media think they know so much more about the solution than the people who deal with it every day......


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## barnrope

Well worth the read - COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he s
aid to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him.
To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"
- Darrell Scott
Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this oout to everyone you can!


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## mlappin

The whack jobs at Westboro Babtist Church are in the news again.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/


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## IslandBreeze

Yeah, that made me sick. I'm always surprised them a&&holes aren't shot at one of their "protests". I was glad to see anonymous hacked into their system & published all their personal info. It was almost comical to see them bitching about it. IDIOTS!


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## mlappin

I also seen a separate story as well on Breibart (i think) that a petition on the White Houses petition site has almost 50,000 signatures of people wanting the Westboro Babtist Church to be declared a hate group.

The petition is up to 80,000 signatures now.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl


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## JD3430

Agree. It all starts with hatred in the heart.
My grandma used to say "an idle mind is the devil's workshop".
We need to fill these idle minds with positive images, not the negative ones created by bullying, violent video games, glamorizing hollywood volence and lack of intervention when we see a child exhibiting anti-social behavior.


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## urednecku

mlappin said:


> I also seen a separate story as well on Breibart (i think) that a petition on the White Houses petition site has almost 50,000 signatures of people wanting the Westboro Babtist Church to be declared a hate group.
> 
> The petition is up to 80,000 signatures now.
> 
> https://petitions.wh...mpaign=shorturl


104,311 right now, in about 11 hours.


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## mlappin

Pass all the laws and bans you want, won't help a bit in a society that is morally bankrupt.

From Ted Nugent:

* More laws and more restrictions won't fix our culture. The problem we face is much deeper, more insidious. What ails us is a spiritual bankruptcy of cultural values that actually matter. More laws and restrictions can't cure that.

It is so sad that a tragedy like this is the only time anyone actually takes the time and energy to address the issues.

What do you all think the answer is?*


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## deadmoose

Personal responsibility. So many refuse to take it. Because they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions they always find a scapegoat. "The coffee was hot". Coffee is hot you idiot! They f up and blame and sue someone else. Our litigous (sp?) Society rewards these people with our hard earned money.

We pay for it. So sad. This IS normal now. I am about the youngest gen xer born and I personally find this despicable.

Personal responsibility. You should not be allowed to sue someone else because you are too stupid.

JMHO


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Personal responsibility. So many refuse to take it. Because they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions they always find a scapegoat. "The coffee was hot". Coffee is hot you idiot! They f up and blame and sue someone else. Our litigous (sp?) Society rewards these people with our hard earned money.
> 
> We pay for it. So sad. This IS normal now. I am about the youngest gen xer born and I personally find this despicable.
> 
> Personal responsibility. You should not be allowed to sue someone else because you are too stupid.
> 
> JMHO


Related to that: Have you ever noticed how many politicians and media-types are lawyers?
No wonder were so screwed up.
Very rarely would you see a bricklayer, a farmer, etc. be a politician. Probably why hard working people are so damn poorly represented in this country. The lazy crack heads and sue-happy idiots have plenty of people on their side. Hard working people seem to have so few people advocating for them, instead they just want to take their money.

Wait until obama starts to go after our retirement money, IRA's, etc.


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## urednecku

WOW, from around the world! Shows there are still some good people around the globe.



> People around the world are grieving with the residents of Newtown over the murders of 26 school children and staff, offering their support by sending toys, money and other gifts.


http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?ps=915&rip_id=%3CDA3BBT5G2%40news.ap.org%3E&news_id=19216442&src=most_popular_viewed&page=2


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## IslandBreeze

mlappin, it's funny when that clown (Nugent) says anything about "spiritual bankruptcy" when he was the one walking around on stage with 2 machine guns telling Obama to suck on them or telling Hillary to "ride off in the sunset on them you worthless bitch" then following that up with "ride off on these you worthless whore". Ahh yes, everybody who wants assault weapons banned is "spiritually bankrupted" but uncle Ted is just a golden beacon of goodness.

deadmoose, I agree 100% with what u said. I've had a construction company for the last 15 years but I got sued a year ago from a guy that had no basis to sue me. I did alot of different projects including a red iron building that totaled $243,000. He sued me for $373,000. He didn't think the building was strong enough even though it was engineered to the state & county specs. That alone was a $100,000 punitive damage claim in case we had an earthquake & he got hurt. I'm $10,000 out of pocket for something that I had no business even being questioned for, little own sued over.

uredncku, that was nice to read. I think there is still ALOT of great people in this world. I've traveled alot & have seen it first hand.


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## urednecku

> I think there is still ALOT of great people in this world. I've traveled alot & have seen it first hand.


I think there is, too. I wish the money-grabbing, trouble-making media would tell more of it, and less of the stuff that just causes more trouble than necessary. I honestly feel that at least 75% of the trouble in the United States is caused by the media, either by how something is reported or not reported at all.


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## Chessiedog

urednecku said:


> I think there is, too. I wish the money-grabbing, trouble-making media would tell more of it, and less of the stuff that just causes more trouble than necessary. I honestly feel that at least 75% of the trouble in the United States is caused by the media, either by how something is reported or not reported at all.


Good news don't sell .


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## JD3430

urednecku said:


> I think there is, too. I wish the money-grabbing, trouble-making media would tell more of it, and less of the stuff that just causes more trouble than necessary. I honestly feel that at least 75% of the trouble in the United States is caused by the media, either by how something is reported or not reported at all.


Like Bengazi and the lamestream (not reporting a all).
It's pretty obvious that Fox news is the only one keeping the fire burning and they also dislike the Obama left. The left wing media wont report on it at all. I think the last I heard from them was "they're dead now so who cares?"

What credibility is gained from not reporting the Bengazi murders? Is it so important to protect the administration that they won't even talk about it?


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## IslandBreeze

Ahh yes, Faux News carrying the truth torch. I guess I missed Brian Williams saying "their dead now who cares"


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## mlappin

IslandBreeze said:


> mlappin, it's funny when that clown (Nugent) says anything about "spiritual bankruptcy" when he was the one walking around on stage with 2 machine guns telling Obama to suck on them or telling Hillary to "ride off in the sunset on them you worthless bitch" then following that up with "ride off on these you worthless whore". Ahh yes, everybody who wants assault weapons banned is "spiritually bankrupted" but uncle Ted is just a golden beacon of goodness.


You mean other than the fact Nugent has never murdered anyone or stolen from an entire nation like the current crop of politicians?

I really don't see how you can bitch about the messenger when the message is dead on.

I think you missed the point entirely (again). The people of this nation are spiritually bankrupt. Look at the rapes, murders, child molestation, child pornography, animal abuse, spousal abuse, etc. going on. And in your case frivolous lawsuits.

Until people can realize on their own that murder is wrong, banning guns of any type won't stop mass killings. A little fertilizer and diesel fuel anyone?


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## somedevildawg

Faux news, I like that breeze, my little liberal friend. I hate Fox News only because they are biased to the right, but, all the others are biased to the left!?! So where does that leave ordinary joe? Just left to your own device to figure out what the hell is going on, what a shame, their are very few unbiased reports being made today. That doesn't sell, either right or left, the polarization of America has never been greater than it is today, and the dems have their foot on the gas and the media is the fuel that keeps them going, sadly it would be the same way if the GOP had the presidency. We need a leader......I don't see one in sight.....a leader that would go against the party elites and do what is best for America......not their stupid party affiliations......unfortunately, I think that's a thing of the past.....merry Christmas to all, remember why we celebrate this time of year, it's a birthday!


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## JD3430

Mike120 said:


> It's interesting to me how left-leaning politicians and our fine mainstream media think they know so much more about the solution than the people who deal with it every day......


If the govt can respond to 9-11 by forming the TSA, then I'm sure we can form an "SSA" (school security association). 
The TSA is pretty ineffective, but it does deter some and might catch some. The ssa would be better especially if it had police working for it unlike the TSA which is mostly made up of non police types. 
I'm really surprised Obama hasn't jumped on the chance to unionize my "SSA" idea and get himself thousands of new government employees and new Obama VOTERS. 
Never let a good crisis go to waste.....right?


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## IslandBreeze

Mlappin, u missed the point same as I did. My point is he is a hypocrite same as most others. The problem with the spiritual bankrupt part is this world had always been the same. There has always been rapes, murders & cruelty.


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## mlappin

IslandBreeze said:


> Mlappin, u missed the point same as I did. My point is he is a hypocrite same as most others. The problem with the spiritual bankrupt part is this world had always been the same. There has always been rapes, murders & cruelty.


Exactly so how will making new gun laws or trying to nullify the second amendment change anything?


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## mlappin

Up to 244,614 now.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl


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## somedevildawg

Here's what I think in terms of how to protect our children from lunatics. School guards for primary grades is a bit drastic, if you say it's not, then why in the hell would you want a crippled rent a cop? Pure waste, if you really want to protect, that ain't the way to go, heck are they not worth the best? I can c Jesse now, this school gets the 78 yr old retired cop ant this school gets a 26 yr old seal, why because this one is from the inner city, thats why! I don't think you can trust any teachers here in America to have a firearm at school, too much liability, plain and simple. However I think that certain people should be designated and trained in the use of tazers and they should be available in various parts of the campus to those trained personnel. They would only be unlocked from their lockbox, ( maybe we could use that one for s.s. it seems to let people in just fine) that unlocks when the alarm is activated. At least you have some means of defense at your disposal. Imagine being in that situation with nothing! Nothing! Break a leg off a flipping chair? Give me a tazer.....at least I have something to defend myself and my students from a lunatic. Maybe the guy is just unstable but doesn't have a gun but is threating to do harm, now a teacher has to decide whether to kill his ass? No tazer him! Ask no ? Just tazer his ass.....he still gets up tomorrow, and you don't have to deal with the fact that a life was taken and you were the taker. Just my thoughts.....


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## swmnhay

Take a tazzer to a gunfight,No thanks!!


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## somedevildawg

Swimin, your not taking a tazer to a gunfight......you are taking a tazer to school! Y'all seem to be missing that point, give me a tazer and I'll take my chances, beats the hell out of the alternative, a lethal weapon in a teachers hand around a classroom of children, disaster waiting to happen.....imo


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## JD3430

I'd hate to face down someone with a gun armed with only taser. 
I bet a good, street savvy cop would be a good deterrent or win against some punk who only knows how to shoot defenseless kids. At least these losers know, when they get to the school, there's an experienced cop with a gun lurking there somewhere that will put up a fight.


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## Mike120

The problem with a tazer is that you have to get pretty close to use it. That's great against a drunk or an armed person who is showing off and really doesn't want to harm anyone. Otherwise it's like taking a knife to a gunfight. Having spent a couple of years of my youth in southeast Asia engaging in much too frequent gunfights, I can state with conviction that closeness and knives were not high on the list of desirable conditions.

Maybe I was different, but I never had any remorse over being the taker.....it was a choice between them and us and a job our government trained us to do. The media makes a big deal out of remorse issues as part of their anti-gun stances and I think probably promotes it in some susceptible individuals.

People who wish us harm have no hesitation to kill children as it makes a bigger impact. Look how the media reacted to the latest event. People were already dead by the time an alarm could have been sounded and taking a tazer to the scene would have been suicidal at best. I hate to see schools turned into fortresses but notions that we can turn back time to a nicer, more gentle environment is probably naive. Sadly, thinking you can reason with, or stop a psychopath by non-lethal means is probably much the same. Unfortunately, some people just need a quick kill'n.


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## mlappin

Answer seems pretty obvious to me, let the teachers that want to carry, carry. For the more liberal parts of the country where it's deemed that not enough teachers are carrying then we have plenty of out of work or even homeless vets who would gladly guard our children's lives. I'm pretty sure in our part of conservative Indiana we would have no problem finding enough teachers that were ex military or have the proper training to be trusted to carry in a school.

Might not even need all schools to be armed as long as it didn't get out which weren't. Kennesaw Georgia requires all head of households to have a gun. They've never forced people who don't have a pistol to comply, but the bad guys don't know who's armed and who isn't so they for the most part stay out of Kennesaw. Kennesaw has a crime rate that's half of what the rest of the country has.


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## urednecku

> a lethal weapon in a teachers hand around a classroom of children, disaster waiting to happen....


Not near as big a disaster as happened in Sandy Hook.
I haven't herd any body suggest just letting anybody carry. First off, concealed weapon permit is required. Then special training for that specific setting.
I personally don't want to have to get close enough to somebody trying to shoot me down a hall to use a tazer, when I could take them out from the other end of the hall before he knew I was there.

I heard about a reporter that asked a Sheriff in a public meeting if he was expecting trouble, because he had a pistol on his side. The Sheriff replied "no ma'am, if I was expecting trouble I would have brought my rifle, too."


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## swmnhay

somedevildawg said:


> Swimin, your not taking a tazer to a gunfight......you are taking a tazer to school! Y'all seem to be missing that point, give me a tazer and I'll take my chances, beats the hell out of the alternative, a lethal weapon in a teachers hand around a classroom of children, disaster waiting to happen.....imo


It's a gunfight when they bring a gun!Tazer may work for drugged out kid with a knife.But no frickin way against someone that has mentaly ill and has snaped and heavily armed.

I believe thats what this disscussion was all about.I think you are the one missing the point.

Maybe a tazer would be something for certain situations but very little deterent to the ones with guns.


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## IslandBreeze

somedevildawg, I totally see where u are coming from. I keep saying it but people must be different in Mo than everywhere else. 1st, there are teachers in my kids school that were there when I went. I wouldn't trust them n the woods beside me with a firearm, let alone in the same room with my kids. urednecku, u say u would take ur chances shooting down a hallway. I would take my chances with u shooting down a hall but not with 90% of teachers. What do u think would happen with a teacher scared, shooting crossfire possibly in other rooms. I know, I know, kids already died, they were going to die anyway. I just want somebody trained to defend & kill to carry a loaded weapon, not somebody trained in teaching visual arts. Taking a weekend course is not getting trained to kill, that's getting trained not to kill yourself. Remember, the same liberal teachers u guys get aggravated with ur now saying pack a pistol on them.

I wonder what would happen when the first student/ teacher fight happens & the teacher pulled a gun on the student because they "feared for there life". Or a student/ student fight & the teacher was trying to break it up. Or a student has a real bad day & decides [email protected]*! it, I'm taking there gun & killing themselves, the teacher or another student.

I don't want to come off as some tree hugging anti gun nut. I have a loaded Colt 45 beside my bed, a loaded 3030 & a loaded 22. I dont believe in unloaded weapons or trigger locks. My dad didn't have them & I'm not either. I believe in right to carry concealed. Hell, I still like when I was a kid & seen guys have gun racks in ther back windows of their trucks. I don't believe in large clips for anything, assault weapons or silencers unless ur military. Do u ever wonder why they named them assault weapons & not defense weapons? I always wonder what the founders would of thought when they were writing the 2nd amendment if someone would of said "should we include a semi auto assault rifle that could shoot 50-100 rounds of ammo in 10-30 seconds?" I can't imagine they would of said "yep, that's what we want". But then again, I can't imagine they wanted to see lifers in the senate & congress. Merry Xmas, hope everybody has a great day & profitable new year. Randy


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## ANewman

IslandBreeze said:


> I don't want to come off as some tree hugging anti gun nut. I have a loaded Colt 45 beside my bed, a loaded 3030 & a loaded 22. I dont believe in unloaded weapons or trigger locks. My dad didn't have them & I'm not either. I believe in right to carry concealed. Hell, I still like when I was a kid & seen guys have gun racks in ther back windows of their trucks. I don't believe in large clips for anything, assault weapons or silencers unless ur military. Do u ever wonder why they named them assault weapons & not defense weapons? I always wonder what the founders would of thought when they were writing the 2nd amendment if someone would of said "should we include a semi auto assault rifle that could shoot 50-100 rounds of ammo in 10-30 seconds?" I can't imagine they would of said "yep, that's what we want". But then again, I can't imagine they wanted to see lifers in the senate & congress. Merry Xmas, hope everybody has a great day & profitable new year. Randy


Can u tell me what makes it an assault weapon? Just because it like like a military weapon? Any weapon can become an assault weapon if you use it to assault someone


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## IslandBreeze

I agree, but I'm not the one who named it. I would define it by being semi-auto or full auto capability, with large ammo burst capability. That's me, but I'm not an expert or a historian


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## mlappin

somedevildawg said:


> somedevildawg, I totally see where u are coming from. I keep saying it but people must be different in Mo than everywhere else. 1st, there are teachers in my kids school that were there when I went. I wouldn't trust them n the woods beside me with a firearm, let alone in the same room with my kids.


Again seems like a pretty flaky individual to me. A gun is a tool like any other and is not inherently evil in itself, if the tools teaching our children can't properly use a tool to defend our children's lives them maybe we need teachers that aren't tools teaching our children.


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## IslandBreeze

Nice play on words but that's an easy & pc correct thing to say. We all wish that only the best were teachers but we know that's not true or practical, same as any other job. Being a great teacher or person has nothing to do with being able to handle a firearm safely or defending school kids til death. And I never said a gun was an evil tool. I've just always felt there should be restrictions on some of them. I love cars but I don't think u should b able to drive a Vette down the interstate at 185mph. If u want to drive that fast, there's nascar. They restrict cars & make them safer (governer, airbags, speed limits, bumper heights, safety faetures, age restrictions, mental health restrictions), I just don't understand assault weapons & big clips.


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## Blue Duck

IMO there is no doubt the 2nd amendment gives us the right to have firearms but when it was written what kind of gun did they have, a smoothbore flintlock musket. Does the 2nd amendment give us the right to own any weapon we want? If so does that mean anyone should be able to buy a full auto or rocket proppeled grenades? NO!!! It also does not say people that are mentally ill can not have a gun to defend themselves. My point is we have to decide as a nation what we consider is a reasonable means of defense.


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## somedevildawg

There is no way I want armed teachers, period. Unless they are trained as a POST certified police officer, they really have no reason to be carrying a gun or have a gun on a school campus. I stick by my reasoning, way to much liability. Are we suppose to have a damn gunfight inside the school? It's absurd. Electro-mechanical locks, tazers, if you give me that vs. nothing..... I'll take my chances, everytime. Would I rather have my Bushmaster, yes. Would I rather have my assault/defense shotgun, yes. Would I rather have my fn 5.7, yes. Would I rather have my Walter ppk, yes. But if I have none of the above and I'm left to a chair leg, a coke bottle, or a tazer, I'll take the tazer. The school principal in this case confronted the shooter, with nothing. Most of these guys are wearing armour, should we go ahead and give the teachers some armour piercing rounds as well? Or maybe we can give the rent a cop some, you know the homeless guy. (You've got to be kidding me). These are basic knee jerk reactions to hysteria caused by .001% of the populace, we will never be able to stop this, these are lunatics, not driven by some religious bigotry, or because mommy didn't spend enuf time loving them, they are lunatics, listening to voices in their head. We can not protect ourselves against all of the linatics all of the time. Guns in the schools, unless carried by police officers trained in this capacity, should never be tolerated. Jmho


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## swmnhay

_I wouldn't want all teachers armed,actualy very few that would be capable of it.But a few would be better then none.I'm more for a hiring a vet that is trained already.Just thier presence will deter some wacko more then a sign on the door that says gun free zone._


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## somedevildawg

Blue Duck said:


> IMO there is no doubt the 2nd amendment gives us the right to have firearms but when it was written what kind of gun did they have, a smoothbore flintlock musket. Does the 2nd amendment give us the right to own any weapon we want? If so does that mean anyone should be able to buy a full auto or rocket proppeled grenades? NO!!! It also does not say people that are mentally ill can not have a gun to defend themselves. My point is we have to decide as a nation what we consider is a reasonable means of defense.


Maybe I misunderstood, but when you fill out a federal form for purchasing a firearm, you do have to disclose whether you have mental problems. Let me say its part of the questions, just not sure if there is anything that compels them to be truthful, most especially if its a lunatic, they will just use mom/dads firearms. I think that originally the constitution provided for our right to bear arms so that we could protect ourselves against the gov. (Right to form a militia) or anyone else, but I think that they recognized that the populace may have to defend itself against tyranny again, they could certainly be right with this most recent polarizing of America by our current so-called leaders.......divide and conquer. In that case, I want all of my firearms and ammo, to protect my family in case they get rounded up and marched to an incinerator, we are not that far removed from that horrible episode, how quickly we forget!


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## JD3430

Arming teachers is not the solution. Arm a professinal and let him/her do the job they were trained to do. Buddy of mine is a FBI agent and another of mine is a cop. They both told me they could take out one of these clowns with a head shot wit an old 38 revolver.
When I spoke earlier of a "retired cop", I didnt mean someone in a wheelchair. I meant an able bodied retired cop. Might be better yet if they just train new security in a seperate school security force for the long haul.
I'd rather put up with the discomfort and expense of it than see more kids dead. Maybe our govt's could divert funds from salmon breeding research or the NASA muslim outreach program to pay for protection for the kids.
Locks on doors wont work. They'll blow they door or lock off then go in and start shooting. You have to understand that these whackos make plans far in advance on how they will carry out their plan. We get mere minutes to react, so we need well trained people to do the job. Not a macho man teacher.
The only way to stop a suicidal murderer is to kill him with a trained shooter with a gun.
Besides, it would save the court system a bunch of money on protecting his rights at a trial.


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## mlappin

Not sure about now, but when I was in our little high school at least half a dozen teachers were ex military. I do suppose in this day and age that might not hold true.

Even now though in somewhat conservative Indiana I wonder how many of our teachers would volunteer for the necessary training.

Like I've already said we have a lot of unemployed vets at the moment, if it actually comes down to forming a separate agency to protect our schools then hopefully the government can actually do something that makes sense and make it mandatory that the positions are first filled with any out of work vet that wants the job.


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## JD3430

I like that as a stop gap. Then we could train the ones that look promising. 
If a teacher wants to be trained, fine, but I'd rather the security guys stay separate. As someone said, teacher could shoot a student in a scuffle if emotions aren't in check.


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## swmnhay




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## JD3430

The "gun bra".
Looks like something outta a dayum james bond movie,,,,,


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## somedevildawg

I ain't never had teachers that look like that, but boy have times changed, lots of em look like that now a days. Tough to be a 17 yr old around some of the ones I see at schools, and most dress like its a damn fashion show. I just think this is a lot of hysteria unfolding now, we have all sorts of problems in our school system now, spending a ton of money on security isn't gonna fix anything. Like I said in a earlier post, this idiot in Atlanta was going to court... over powered a woman cop, put there to "guard" him, took HER weapon and shot the court reporter, judge and 3 other people before running out of the building and killing 2 more people hours later. Wonder if anyone had a gun in the court room? Damn sure didn't stop him......sad as it may be, those people would be alive had they not had a woman with side arm "guarding" him. A gun can be utilized by the bad guy just as easily as the the good guy. If a problem does break out, hard to know who is the perp if everyone has a weapon, chaos will ensue and we will be posting about the teacher who got shot by the cops because of mistaken identity, etc. innocent children killed by stray bullets that were found to come from the gun of a industrial arts teacher in the melee, all sorts of scenarios can run through my mind, in a perfect world the guy comes up....someone has a weapon, splatters brain matter from this person on the wall. But then you find out the kid had a pellet/airsoft/squirt gun but was mentally unstable....who fires the first shot? Do you only fire if fired upon? I just don't like it, in Israel, they are protecting their children from a known enemy, we are shooting in the dark, I don't think it stands a chance of working out good for us. There will be some success, but I'm afraid that this is a bit much. I wouldn't want to tell those parents that tho, god bless those families......


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