# New shed for stack wagon operation



## wheatridgefarmMD

Looking for some ideas for a new shed for using a stack wagon, trying to keep hay seperated by field/type and accessible at all times. I am thinking about a 50x100 or 60x120 size with an open long side. Anyone have any experience with one like this? Will there be enough protection from the elements with a whole side open? What options could there be for more weather protection?

Thanks,

Ben


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## Josh in WNY

Ben,

I've been going over building plans for a stacker wagon friendly barn myself, but I'm planning on leaving the narrow end open. I don't see why leaving the long side open would be a problem other than you will have some posts in your way when you are backing in, but that shouldn't be too hard to deal with.

As far as a way to close off the opening, what about using a heavy tarp or canvas on a pulley system? I know a farmer near me who did this with his equipment shed and it worked fairly well. He used a pipe in a sleeve in the bottom of the tarp to act as a weight and had clips on each side that hooked to the verticle post. It probably won't keep all the weather out, but will stop most of it. It would also cut down on how much your hay gets bleached out by sunlight as it's in the barn (not sure if that is a consern for you, but I have to worry about it with my customer base - horse people). A roll-up door would work too, but that would get pretty expensive.

Hope this helps,

Josh


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## hay wilson in TX

Been using first two 1002 bale wagons and later one 1003 balewagon. With a 36 ft clear spann the two wide machines is 4 stacks wide. 
With the two bale wide machine I can stack three bales wide. Think 4 X 2 = 8 bales on the ground. While 3 X 3 = 9 bales on the ground. So there is one more bale on the ground for a 112.5% increase in hay storage. This is using a 34" bale length.

My barn was 96 feet long. Then 4 years ago a tornado took out the barn but left the rain soaked hay standing.

The replacement is 42 feet clear span and 110 feet long.

In the barn is open at both ends with a bulkhead in the middle for the stacks to lean against.
Each stack had about a 24" clearance between the stacks allowing us to "walk" between the stacks, but really to allow for air circulation.

The old barn had a 13 ft vertical clearance designed for a pull type Stackwagon. 
To allow for a future selfpropelled bale wagon we went 15 ft verticle clearance. Then we wanted the ability to pull hay from the stacks using a grab or a squeeze, so went to a 17 ft verticle clearance. The cost to go higher was minimal with a pole barn.

Then when stacking in the barn we have 6 rows to choose from. Three rows of stacks of hay. Makes inventory records simple and you know which field and which cutting the hay is from.

Now we pull the hay from the barn the old fashon way, by hand. Word of advise. DO NOT allow the hay to be pulled from the top down as you might with a hand stacked barn. I load two bales deep three bales wide from a stack, usually 7 bales high. That is 42 bales of hay. A nice pickup truck load. 80 bales makes a comfortable 8 X 16 ft tandum trailer load.

Now in practice backing into one of my stacks you will note the face is 4 or 5 bales high. This way we can load 30 low bales on the PU or trailer, 
Then back up 3 feet and finish off the back of the load from high bales.
This has gravity working for us.

Record keeping on a spreadsheet I record each stack going into the barn and show the loss as the hay goes out.

Be even easier using a grab to pull hay from the barn as long as it is not more than three bales wide and 4 bales deep.

With the new Self propelled Stack Wagons the stacks do not need something to lean against. That way we do not need a bulkhead, but I believe I would keep the bulkhead. Usually I have grass hay on one end and alfalfa hay on the opposite end.

Coming to the barn I sample each cutting from each field, & have the feed quality the hay stored in the barn.

New Holland has a good publication on the difference dementions for a hay barn. 
A 40 ft wide clear span works well using standard trusses, and leaves a nice overhang for the drip line.

My hay barn is useally filled 1½ times each season. I feel a pole barn with sides for at least half the barn has the long stored hay in the shade. I like each side to be covered up to 1¾ of length of the side. If need be you can fence the uncovered side, and use two 20 ft gates on each to close each end. I would rather use a cable to keep people out, and electric fence on the cable for the critters.


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## Teslan

We have two barns built for with NH self propelled stackers in mind. We have a 55X100 and a 55 X 150. They are inside 19 feet tall at eves to clear the stacker with out fear of the hay hitting the trusses. They are totally enclosed. We have the doors on each of 55 feet ends. Each door takes up half the 55 foot side. And they are opposite from each other. That means if you have a little space on each end the stacker or a trailer can drive clear through the building without having to backup much. I'm sure that isn't very clear, but I can't explain it any better. Check out my quick farm video here to see what they are like sort of. 
55 feet is a comfortable width for 4 stacks across. I'm not entirely sure what hay wilson means that with the new self propelled stack wagons you don't need any thing to lean against. Because if you start out with a full load you do need something to lean it against. But if you stair step the load to create a hay bulk head you don't. They company that built our barns is Morton, but any pole barn company or steel building company should be able to do it. We like our hay to be fully enclosed because rain and snow here tends to fall sideways.


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## Rodney R

We've been using 4 sheds 55x120, built by Morton.... that gives enough room to put 5 stacks next to each other. I can put 3 in one row, and come back at a later date and put in 2 more if I have to, but it's best to start at the back and fill all 5 at one shot. 3 of the buildings have one end door and a side door, about 1/3 of the way back, so most of the storage area is in the back of the shed, where there is less light. The other building has the door in the absolute center, and that gives 5-6 deep on each side, 5 wide. Since they have the roof and sides vents, with the end door open there is lots of air exchange in them. I'm not a big fan of open sided sheds. 50 feet on the inside width, gives you about 6 stacks when you begin your stack along the side wall.... Your fields must be bigger than ours, cause one field here almost never gives 6 stacks. With a 17ft high building you can add an extra layer to the top of the stacks - 10 high vs 9 high, and that will increase the capacity of the building quite a bit - every 9 stacks was really 10 I try to preach to my dad (who tops most of the stacks), not to put a tie row on the top, but every so often I'll see one up there.

Rodney


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## Bob M

Ben, I just built a 92' by 120' hay shed 21' tall inside. I left the sides open and then put a roll up curtain down each 120' side. This works great, easy acessiblity to the entire barn and keeps the weather out. Not that expensive 2 120' roll up curtains installed $12,500 .

Bob


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## Teslan

Rodney R said:


> We've been using 4 sheds 55x120, built by Morton.... that gives enough room to put 5 stacks next to each other. I can put 3 in one row, and come back at a later date and put in 2 more if I have to, but it's best to start at the back and fill all 5 at one shot. 3 of the buildings have one end door and a side door, about 1/3 of the way back, so most of the storage area is in the back of the shed, where there is less light. The other building has the door in the absolute center, and that gives 5-6 deep on each side, 5 wide. Since they have the roof and sides vents, with the end door open there is lots of air exchange in them. I'm not a big fan of open sided sheds. 50 feet on the inside width, gives you about 6 stacks when you begin your stack along the side wall.... Your fields must be bigger than ours, cause one field here almost never gives 6 stacks. With a 17ft high building you can add an extra layer to the top of the stacks - 10 high vs 9 high, and that will increase the capacity of the building quite a bit - every 9 stacks was really 10 I try to preach to my dad (who tops most of the stacks), not to put a tie row on the top, but every so often I'll see one up there.
> 
> Rodney


Rodney what kind of stackers are you running? The 3 string bale NH stackers? The reason why I ask is to get 5 stacks wide across a 55 Morton building would be awful close to the walls and the other stacks if you have about 39 inch bales like I do of 2 string bales? I guess if you do just 36 inch bales you would have 10 feet to play with for 5 stacks. Also how do you get by with just a 17 foot high when you need 17.6 inches to safely unload a NH stacker with just 9 tiers never mind the 10 you say you do? Or are you even using NH stackers at all? One 25 acre field for me of 1st cutting most of the time brings in about 15 166 bale NH stacker loads or 2500 bales.


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## Rodney R

H9870. Most of the bales run about 36 to 38 inches, the stack is normally about 110-120 inches wide. The wagon brings in 9 layers high, and then we add the 10th with a grabber on the front end loader. I think the sidewalls are maybe 16ft high, but with the scissor truss they go up to about 20 in the center. I think the end door is about 18. I can easily unload, I just have to be careful on the side stacks as the stack has to go over center between trusses, but they're 7'6" wide, so I have plenty of room. Putting the 10th layer on the side stacks is hard, comaperd to unloading, cause the loader runs out of lift, and the trusses are right there. But it can all be done with just the slightest skill. I don't have much room between the wall and the stack, less than a foot. Many times the stacks will be an inch or so apart. I keep forgetting that most folks have MUCH bigger fields than we do around here - 25 acres is enormous....... With all of the hills and contours, and terraces, I work with anything form 2 acres on up, but never more than about 9-10.

Rodney


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## wheatridgefarmMD

For the guys who suggested/use a completely closed in building, how do you eliminate the 30 or so feet I estimate is wasted on the sides at the doors that the stacker cannot stack in because of the end walls? I like the canvas door idea on an open side shed but I really think for our weather patterns a completely enclosed shed would be best.

Ben


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## Teslan

Ben. See my video and you can see how I eliminate the wasted space. I have two doors on either end, but they are not in the middle of the ends. Or like some around here you can leave an entire end open, but if you do that I would suggest having a vent or something on the other end to let wind go through. A neighbor had his building get blown up by strong wind right after he built it. I don't think I would like canvas doors. I'm pretty sure the wind would rip them apart or they wouldn't last to long with the sun shining on them. As it is with the way our building is I don't try and move the doors when there is much of a wind going.

Rodney. I guess then if I made my bales a bit shorter and cared to try to get so close to the other stacks and walls then I could do the 5 across. Since yours are Morton like ours the truss spacing should be the same. I kinda like to be able to walk through the building from one end to the other though the way our buildings are built. We sell the hay fast enough that it really isn't an issue though to need to put 5 across. I wondered how you were adding the 10th tier. I think you can do it with the NH stackers if you are careful (though I've never tried). I have a 1089 NH stacker. You must do a lot of backing up and such with those small fields and your stacker. That might drive me crazy doing a 2 acre field.


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## Josh in WNY

Rodney R said:


> Since they have the roof and sides vents, with the end door open there is lots of air exchange in them.
> Rodney


Rodney, your touching on a topic that I think has been missed so far in this thread. I know in my area, I am going to have to do something about condensation forming on the inside of the metal barn and dripping on the hay. One option is to use insulation, but I wanted to ask how your vents are set up? I was thinking about using soffit vents on the underside of the eaves and then some sort of ridge vent that still kept out the rain/snow.


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## Rodney R

The ridge vent is continuous, and about 6-8 inches. The side vents are about 4-6 inches tall, and they get their air through soffets that are 18-24 inches. I haven't seen much condensation inside of the hay sheds, but we have a smaller older shed with similar specs, and that thing has quite a bit of condensation. The thing that I don't know is the hay sheds all have white roofs, and the other shed has a brown roof..... Could it be just the color that causes the condensation, or maybe I just do not notice it in the hay sheds.

Teslan - Some of our hay will sit here until next June. We have quite a few customers that count on us having a supply of hay for them - we try to 'guess' how many loads each person will need, and we do more 'guessing' as it gets closer to making new hay. It's not uncommon to have new hay and old hay sitting next to each other in the shed. With the advent of no-till, I have been planting the same varieties in several strips right next to each other. That way I can make one bigger field out of several smaller ones. Most of my jockeying around is picking up the outside rows, like it would be almost anywhere else. But that said, I hate having to do so many strips with the end rows. Once I can follow an insde row, things are alright. It makes me laugh - I hear guys complaining about small 20 acre fields, and other guys wondering why we even bother, but it just depends what you're used to.

Rodney


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## wheatridgefarmMD

Marc,

Sorry I overlooked what you said about the doors being opposite and using half of the 55' end. Neighbor built his straw barn the same way, just not as wide of doors i dont believe. I can see where that setup would be the most protective of the hay and if I left the middle row open i could drive end to end with a trailer and pick bales from the stack I needed to.

Ben


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## Teslan

It is somewhat good the way we have it. Say if I have to stack 2nd cutting hay up against 1st cutting hay then if someone really wants the 1st cutting they can pull the bales off from the side. Kind of hard to do it that way, but if they really want to do it they can. It's also good for storing equipment as you don't have to back things out if you have enough room to just drive through. The building in my video has never been totally full. I try and sell out of hay by December. This year it was gone by the end of August. If I keep hay longer then the 1st of the year I have to start discounting the price to get it gone before the end of May. So the goal is to sell in all fall and summer. In the 80s and 90s people would buy all year long. But now they like to stock up in the summer or fall.

We leave the doors open from about the middle of May until about this time of year. Just to get some air flow through the buildings.

I don't have to deal with the condensation issue here. Though like Rodney we have the ridge vent. I also don't worry so much about the ground I put the hay on. We just have old grass hay on dirt. Bottom bales never get hurt.


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## Rodney R

It's not completely wasted space.... In a 55ft building, you can turn sideways and unload 2 stacks deep along the sidewall. I normally bring my stack from the rear to the side door, and then turn sideways. On the other side, you can set 1 stack wide along that end wall, you might get 4-5 stacks like that. If a guy is really pressed for space, he can then fill the rest of the shed through the doorways. You can use about 90-95% of the space in the shed. If you don't have to stack in the doorways, that's a good spot to park equipment.

Josh - I forgot to mention the insulation. That seems to be the sure-fire way of not having condensation. We don't have it in any of the hay sheds, but my garage is a pole shed, and I have it in there, and I have zero condensation from the roof in there.

Rodney


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## hay wilson in TX

I like the idea of doors on each end and backing 55 feet to a wall. Should be a lead pipe cinch seeing as I back 62 feet with a pull type bale wagon. I sack against a bulkhead which allows open passage for me to walk and for air between the stacks.

Supposedly the new stack wagons have a computer to tie the tiers and allow for a completely vertical standing stack. Much like those built in Washington or Oregon. Regardless my cash flow would not support that much money in a machine.

My market is for 55 lb bales (35 bales/Ton) and that requires a 34 to 35 inch long bale to assure a good firm bale. That is a little short for those higher capacity machines.

This thread is a good lesson in the value of differing opinions and view points.

With my present roof the idea is the inside condensation will run to the drip line before falling.

With our climate we do not NEED a weather tight hay barn just some shade and protection from the rain. HERE the Western Style open Pole Barn works well, with some shade on the sides to reduce bleaching. Darn sure do not want to have to open the doors for each sale, Most of our sales go out in the back of a PU truck with some 16 ft trailers and even fewer goose neck trailers.

I have seen barns with the stacks so close that only a cat could run the length of the barn. He had to pull in his rear view mirror to when backing next to another stack. He had a dairy and was stacking for his own consumption. I sell all my hay to the public and need to be able to control how the hay goes in and as important how the hay goes out.

Thanks to all for the good ideas!


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## Teslan

Lots of people here store their hay in the open sided barn, but when it rains and snows here it seems to go sideways more then straight down all the time. Thus some hay get's ruined. However I don't know what the cost savings is between having an open sided barn and a fully enclosed barn.

It's not just the new stackers that have tie tiers with a computer. Our old 1980 1069 would do tie tiers, but you had to remember to do them. The computers in the new ones just remember for your.


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## wheatridgefarmMD

I want to revisit this topic for a bit, since I am back into the preplan and design process again. Due to space constraints of the location that I want to place this building it appears that a 40 to 50 foot wide building is the best I can do.

How many stacks from a 1049 or 1069 will fit across a 40 foot width? Anyone using one this width? I am at the point of putting together the specifics to send in for price quotes.

Thanks


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## NDVA HAYMAN

I would guess 4 stacks if the bales are not over 40". That would not work in the real world. They would have to be shortened up to get the last stack in. 40" lenght x 3 bales =10' per stack divided by 40= 4 stacks ( in a perfect world ) Hope I did the math right. Mike


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## wheatridgefarmMD

Getting prices on a 40x60x18 to start with. I have figured I can get just over 5000 bales in there with a 1069 stacker. I sell most of my hay out of the field and rarely store more than 1000 over winter but I am adding an additional 30 acres this year with plans to add that much in the fall, maybe. Will keep you posted.


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## Rodney R

4 stacks is going to be REAL tight. I know that our sheds are 55, and we can get 5, so 4 in 40 sounds on the surface like it would work..... But I don't think we have 5 extra feet on the side when I stack straight across the building, so i know that they take up all of 10ft, and the bales are 36-38 inches. If you had said a 42 ft builing, I would say no problem. Most time the 40ft is measured on the OUTSIDE of the building, so in fact, our 55 ft buildings are more like 53 on the inside. In that builging you will have no choice but to stack all the way across, as you won't have enough room to back along side of standing stacks. Likewise, when you empty the building, you won't be able to take one row to the back wall, you'll have to work across and back at the same time. And maybe that's no big issue for you.

Rodney


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