# Help me reel in a big fish (customer)



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gentlemen, 
I received a call over the winter from a nice lady looking for round bales. I had none, but asked her to contact me first week of June. She contacted me today. She has 25 horses and said she has virtually no grass left growing in her fields (overgrazed??)
She said she bought 15 tons 3 weeks ago and it's all gone. She asked me about my hay. I told her I have 13 tons ready for delivery and could supply her all the round bales she wants (when it stops raining long enough to actually MAKE more. 
She wants to come have a look tomorrow. All my bales range from 10-17%. 900+ lbs. The were very lightly rained on a few days after cutting (just being honest). Outsides of bales are "straw colored". Insides of bales are a mix of light green and straw colored. 
I told her I want $70/bale plus delivery (25 miles away).

What do I do, what do I say to reel this one in? I like this lady. Seems very nice. If she's buying 15 tons a month for most of the year and a smaller amount on other months, that's still the potential for about 150 tons per year. 
I'm not getting overly excited, but I want to get this one. She doesn't seem like a BS'er.
Any advice greatly appreciated. Yes, I will brush my teeth and use deodorant.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Be totally honest with her about the hay. Dont try to up sell it. If she knows what she is getting and likes it she will most likely come back for more.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Yes, I will brush my teeth and use deodorant.


Damn, usually a Sunday thing ain't it?


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

Total honesty and you can pull samples for her to have tested. Let someone else tell her what it is if she does not trust you.

CW


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Give her a bale to try.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Give her a bale to try.


That's what I'd do......


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

When being honest, do not down play your hay. Remember that the average buyer does not really know hay. If you mention rain to some they will turn and walk.

Tell her it had a light rain, were able to work the hay and make good it a good quality.

Some people do not even know you can make very nice hay after it has been rained on.

I agree with giving her a roll to try.

Hope you land this customer.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> When being honest, do not down play your hay. Remember that the average buyer does not really know hay. If you mention rain to some they will turn and walk.
> Tell her it had a light rain, were able to work the hay and make good it a good quality.
> Some people do not even know you can make very nice hay after it has been rained on.


Excellent point Tim


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

+++ on the honesty and trial bale thing. Tell her you strive to make quality and when if the product isn't what you represent you'll make it right. Deliver that sample and take a good look at the place and listen to to her. At this time you'll have a good idea if you want this customer. If you do, figure out what SERVICE you can offer that will make her life easier/happier/simpler. Someone else will have cheaper or nicer product from time to time but they arn't you.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Maybe take her to one of the fields yet to be cut? Seeing a field of quality, well fertilized, and weed free grass should convince her you know how to grow hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

RockmartGA said:


> Maybe take her to one of the fields yet to be cut? Seeing a field of quality, well fertilized, and weed free grass should convince her you know how to grow hay.


Yes, I planned to do exactly that. I have a field nearby I do that has a very good hay stand I can show her. 
Funny thing is, just a few parcels away, there are a couple knuckleheads that make small squares and their fields are loaded with Queen Anne's lace and milk weed. The other one is half buttercups and some other swamp weed I can't even identify. Lmao.

But we all know round bale hay is "junk" and square bale hay????? Awww yeah... That's all horse quality hay.....lmao!

Great advice. All of you thanks so much. I will heed y'all's advice. Can't wait till tomorrow. Ain't it great just knowing that you can still get a chance at the big fish once in a while??.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

Good luck JD, I picked up a lady that has a horse stable and what got me in was honesty. Was upfront about bales being a little high moisture but we both agree she could feed it fast enough to all there horses before any issues. Sold her 150 bales and she wants as much good stuff as i can put up, problem is i don't have any more good stuff. These free lease fields just have to many weeds in them. The one 20ac fields was super high, soil must be good, but needs weeed control and i can't spray so i just don't know what to do for next year. I wish i could talk land owner into letting me spray.

Good luck again, keep us posted


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

You could explain that the hay would be about $150.00 per ton . Show her a copy of the hay auctions report from the Lancaster Farming. So she can see for her self the hay is a good deal. . I tell the customer hay auctions take the whole day and I can deliver to your place in just an hour or 2 and will turn some of the savings over to you. She will get the message that you could take the hay to the auction in a minute if she does not buy it . Horse people want to know if it is sound for horses. I guarantee the hay to be sound for horses or I will take it back I than give a SHORT STRAIT TO THE POINT definition of "sound hay" I tell them it was baled dry and has not gone threw heating that would cause dust ,must or mold.. If the hay is not sound for horses I would tell her ..I would always be truthful.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Show her the field. Then say, "When your horses eat this hay it is the same as them standing out there grazing". Paints a great mental image.

Had a horse customer tell me that one time when looking at our hay field. I have borrowed it ever since....... with out permission.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Good luck JD, I picked up a lady that has a horse stable and what got me in was honesty. Was upfront about bales being a little high moisture but we both agree she could feed it fast enough to all there horses before any issues. Sold her 150 bales and she wants as much good stuff as i can put up, problem is i don't have any more good stuff. These free lease fields just have to many weeds in them. The one 20ac fields was super high, soil must be good, but needs weeed control and i can't spray so i just don't know what to do for next year. I wish i could talk land owner into letting me spray.
> 
> Good luck again, keep us posted





whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Good luck JD, I picked up a lady that has a horse stable and what got me in was honesty. Was upfront about bales being a little high moisture but we both agree she could feed it fast enough to all there horses before any issues. Sold her 150 bales and she wants as much good stuff as i can put up, problem is i don't have any more good stuff. These free lease fields just have to many weeds in them. The one 20ac fields was super high, soil must be good, but needs weeed control and i can't spray so i just don't know what to do for next year. I wish i could talk land owner into letting me spray.
> 
> Good luck again, keep us posted.... The weeds grow because the grass is to thin if you would spray you would have bare ground . Some fields need reseeded but now is not the time to do it .A good stand of grass with a little nitrogen after each cutting does not need much spray . Evaluate the stand density and can you use fertilizer


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Sometimes there is such a thing as TMI. Too Much Information, if it got a very light rain and it didn't effect quality at all, no need to bring it up. Remember most people cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to what it takes to make quality hay. Almost all just ask if it's dry and has no mold.

By no means lie if she asks you if it had any rain on it before baling, but if it was just a sprinkle while mowing it's not worth mentioning as most horse people completely freak out if the "R" word is even mentioned. Long and short of it is, if it did have some rain but if you're sure it absolutely did not effect the quality of it then don't mention it.

Personally I have the ability at the farm to go ahead and break a bale open, show it to them and prove a rain didn't hurt it in the least as what I break open I can go ahead and dump in the vertical grinder for the next batch of cow feed. It also helps if you make a probe up so you can pull some hay out of the bale to prove it's condition if the dreaded "R" word comes up.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm not sure her numbers add up:

25 horses, 15 tons, 3 weeks = 5 tons/week = 400 lbs/horse/week = 57 lbs/horse/day

I have:

15 horses, 1.5 tons/week = 100 lbs/horse/week = 15 lbs/horse/day.

Some of my more active horses get 5-8 lbs of supplemental feed/day, so 15 is a little light but not much.

15-20 lbs/day is the normal range. So either her numbers are off, she was undersold by weight, or she has a lot of wastage.

Whenever somebody starts throwing numbers at me, I like to a reality check: Do their numbers make sense and compare to what I know about the situation.

You might do her a favor and ask questions about that hay quality, feeding methods, horse activity, etc. and see if she has a problem that she is unaware of. If you lowered her feeding costs by 75%, you will have won a life-long friend and customer.

And, I agree with other's comments: Total honesty, but don't under or over sell. Best sales advice I ever got was: Known when to shut up.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks again. I think she said she had other animals (goats, donks, etc.) that are consuming hay, too.
I bet the other seller she bought hay from claimed he sold her 15 tons and she believed it. Maybe he fooled her into really only buying 10-12 tons and that why her animals went through it so fast???
Maybe she bought by the bale and was told they weighed 900lbs and they only weighed 700???


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Damn, usually a Sunday thing ain't it?


I can't stop laughing !!!!!!,


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I'd bet that she was sold 15 bales and was thinking 1 ton/bale. 15 1000 lb bales over 3 weeks would be more in the ball park.

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

*If you can point out she may have been getting the weanie on tonnage,you may have a customer for life.*

*I've had a customer for 20 yrs that he checked weights on everyone that sold to him.He would reload it and reweigh it in town.He said I was the first guy with a honest weight.He turns other hay sellers away now even when they offer to sell cheaper*

*.*

*She have some of the other guys hay to weigh?*


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

Don't forget to check if she's using a feeder JD. Shes probably going through a few bales every 3 weeks that are being used for pony litter (somewhere for the horses to p*ss)! Them nags love ripping RB's to pieces.

Also, does your baler have choppers? This would be a great selling point also.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, I met with her 3 hours ago. I set up delivery only for Wednesday. She wants to think it over on how much she wants to buy. I told her $70/bale and estimated delivery at $55/hr and that it would take about 3-4 hours. 
She told me about the guy she previously bought hay from: said he delivered her 5 tons of hay and then she ran out. She called him for another load. Said he brought out the same number of bales, but claimed that load weighed 8.5 tons (thats the 15 tons she said she used in 3 weeks). Right there I knew he was taking advantage. She said he was always putting on the overly religious act which she thinks was a cover for him taking advantage of customers. 
I offered to sell to her for $70/bale insuring her the bales were about 900lbs, or I could have the load weighed and charge her by the ton, but that would surely increase transportation costs. 
She seemed ok with $70/bale + delivery face to face, but she may try to issue me a beat-down when she calls back.
She needs lots of hay and an honest, local supplier. I think we could make beautiful music together and today I think I got one step closer to making that happen.

One other thing: she asked me about fescue/broodmares problems. I said I was not sure how much fescue was in the fields. However, the fields were kinda headed out when I cut. I think if she just makes sure they don't eat my hay during last 60-90 days of gestation, they'll be fine. Heck, I don't even know if there's a lot of fescue present.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> She told me about the guy she previously bought hay from: said he delivered her 5 tons of hay and then she ran out. She called him for another load. Said he brought out the same number of bales, but claimed that load weighed 8.5 tons (thats the 15 tons she said she used in 3 weeks). Right there I knew he was taking advantage. She said he was always putting on the overly religious act which she thinks was a cover for him taking advantage of customers.
> She needs lots of hay and an honest, local supplier. I think we could make beautiful music together and today I think I got one step closer to making that happen.
> 
> One other thing: she asked me about fescue/broodmares problems. I said I was not sure how much fescue was in the fields. However, the fields were kinda headed out when I cut. I think if she just makes sure they don't eat my hay during last 60-90 days of gestation, they'll be fine. Heck, I don't even know if there's a lot of fescue present.


Good for you.

Question: How many bales in that 5/8.5 tons? And what size? Unless those were really tight bales, they probably didn't weigh more than a 1000 lbs.

Regarding fescue--know your product! Know exactly what's in your field, including weeds. E.g., another thread mentioned horse nettle.

Here's a quote from an article on hettle:

"Any livestock---including cattle, sheep, goats and pigs as well as horses---may be poisoned after eating large quantities of horse nettle. Horses tend to avoid the plant because it is distasteful, and they are unlikely to eat enough to cause serious problems unless the weed is rampant in their pasture or they have no other suitable forage. The amount of horse nettle it takes to produce a toxic effect varies, depending on how concentrated the solanine isin the plant, and how much is eaten. However, it generally takes a pound or more to cause poisoning. A single mouthful or a few berries will have little effect on a mature horse. The glycoalkaloids act rapidly once they are absorbed from the intestinal tract, but the effects are not cumulative."

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I wish. I knew every plant in my fields, but I don't. I do know that there were almost no weeds present. Fields were exceedingly clean and weed free.

The difference here is that fescue is a type of grass. It's hard for me to know the difference. Do any of you know any distinguishing characteristics?

I know what horse nettle looks like from 10 yards away, but categorizing grasses is tough for me.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Fescue is not much of an issue if it is mixed with other grasses. This applies to both pasture and hay.

I can only identify fescue by the seed head (which is where most of the endophyte is located....if the fescue contains endophyte).

There are tests that can determine if and how much endophyte a field of fescue contains. Some fescue has very little which would be great in marketing the hay for the horse market.

Congratulations on the meeting going well. Once you get your foot in the door, have your name mentioned in a positive light, in the right circles, you will have no trouble finding customers.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

It's a learning process. Learn the leaves by recognizing the seed heads. "Observe, remember and compare"--a phrase I learned from my mentor, which I am passing on to you. Pretty soon, you'll be the "go to guy" for hay in your area.

Ralph


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

As Ralph said use the seed heads to identify the leaves and before long you will be able to recognize the different grasses easily. I would suggest now while the grass still has heads to walk the field and pick each different seed head you see and also take a leaf from the same plant, then look up and identify each or if you want to post pictures on here I will be happy to identify the ones I know. You may have a few things in pa that I'm not familiar with.

If your fields have a substantial amount of fescue it will still be good hay for horses except for pregnant mares. I would suggest though you plant a field of Timothy and or orchard grass to sell to folks with pregnant mares. I would imagine timothy should do well by you as you are a lot cooler than I am in the summer and you should be able to charge more money for Timothy hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

These fields I took over have been used to feed horses for probably hundreds of years. However, this hay was cut late and has seed heads. Maybe I can take some pics of seed heads and post em up. 
She said she was aware of tall fescues, so I have a feeling she will buy different hay for the broodmares. Heck, I'm not even sure there's a lot of fescue present.
Here's a picture of the rolls, but it's not close enough. I will take a close up.


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

When we were raising only hay we tested every lot of hay we produced. This differentiated us from all other hay farmers in our area and got us large customers. We also sold by the ton except for our small customers who we sold by the bale but the price was calculated based on the bale weight of the bulk hay from that lot.

If you are assuring the customer your bales are "about" 900# you better start weighing too be sure.

Jim


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Google it.Plenty of pics on the net of the plants,seed heads.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Lazy J said:


> When we were raising only hay we tested every lot of hay we produced. This differentiated us from all other hay farmers in our area and got us large customers. We also sold by the ton except for our small customers who we sold by the bale but the price was calculated based on the bale weight of the bulk hay from that lot.
> If you are assuring the customer your bales are "about" 900# you better start weighing too be sure.
> Jim


I agree and encouraged her to buy from me by the ton, not the bale.

Also who tests hay? Would it be my local southern states, Growmark FS kind of place?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

She just sent me a text asking for my best price for 22 bales (full trailer load) plus delivery.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

http://www.agrianalysis.com/ This where we get ours done they probably have a drop box in your area jd.. We test some dairy hay for customers and for our dairy farm WE never test for the horse market


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> She just sent me a text asking for my best price for 22 bales (full trailer load) plus delivery.


Those rolls are nice and dense, no squat to them.

Your price should be what the market will bear. I can remember having sellers remorse, priced hay at a discount because of volume.

Later it dawned on me that volume is a two way street.

Yes, we are getting a steady customer.

They are also getting a steady supplier.

My price is my price. We are not doing this as a pastime. Profits are not great and we could sit at home and it not cost us anything.

She is buying peace of mind as well as hay.

My advice will be to remain professional. Professional manerisms in every aspect of the hay business, including pricing, is what separates the sheep from the goats.


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## AndyL (Mar 9, 2013)

JD, you might check with your County Extension Office. We can drop them off there and they'll send them off for testing.


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

I 'll actually tell people that only wants one or two round bales I need more money because I have to show up for basically nothing if not.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I agree and encouraged her to buy from me by the ton, not the bale.
> 
> Also who tests hay? Would it be my local southern states, Growmark FS kind of place?


This is where I have my alfalfa tested: http://www.foragelab.com/

The place is called Cumberland Valley Analytical. They do the testing for the forage competition at the Tulare Farm Show, so I figured that was the best reference they could receive. Great, fast service and they even have a mobile app for your smartphone. They'll send you a packet containing all the materials you need to send them test samples: bags with labels on them, and a bunch of mailing labels.

I always prefer to have my hay sampled and results in hand before negotiating a deal with a customer, especially if that customer is a potential big fish. I believe everyone has already given you great advice, and I don't have much more to add. Just be confident when speaking to her, and definitely don't under represent your product, as someone already mentioned.


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

We pull our own samples using a hay probe from Star Samplers and send the samples to either Dairyland Labs or Cumberland Valley.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Just by luck, I sold my buddy 2 round bales and he said horses are chomping on it. At first they weren't crazy about it because they were used to brome they were buying from West Virginia.
Made me feel better about what I am shipping Wednesday.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

LeadFarmer said:


> This is where I have my alfalfa tested: http://www.foragelab.com/
> 
> The place is called Cumberland Valley Analytical. They do the testing for the forage competition at the Tulare Farm Show, so I figured that was the best reference they could receive. Great, fast service and they even have a mobile app for your smartphone. They'll send you a packet containing all the materials you need to send them test samples: bags with labels on them, and a bunch of mailing labels.
> 
> I always prefer to have my hay sampled and results in hand before negotiating a deal with a customer, especially if that customer is a potential big fish. I believe everyone has already given you great advice, and I don't have much more to add. Just be confident when speaking to her, and definitely don't under represent your product, as someone already mentioned.


I forgot to mention that I use this for pulling my samples: http://www.haychec.com/


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