# Hay field cover crop



## JRSutton (Sep 22, 2014)

Hey guys - I'd value some input here.

I've got a small field I'm reclaiming - only about 3 acres.

Normally I'd take the no-till approach, but it's kinda rocky with a lot of small tree roots - I decided to just plow it, pick the rocks and roots, and disk it smooth.

Now I'm staring a nice flat field of dirt wondering what I should do.

The ph/fertility will be a joke, I don't even have to do an analysis - I'm very familiar with the land in this area - ph will be well below 6, so it's going to take some time to bring it up to where it needs to be.

I plan to do orchard grass here.

I'll hit it with lime of course, But - I'm thinking I may do a cover crop now and orchard grass seed in the spring Thought process being to improve the soil as much as I can before creating what will be a weak stand of orchard grass.

I don't do this kind of thing very often, so I'm a little unsure of myself.

IF you were to use a cover crop - what would you use, and why? I see winter rye used a lot, but I'm wondering if white clover (or maybe some other cheap legume) might be a better choice to help the soil out a little bit.

I may be over thinking it - but I would like to know what others think.

Oh - I'm in Massachusetts.

Thanks.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm not sure what I would use for a cover crop, but I would spread some lime on it now and work it into the soil rather than just leaving it on top after it is seeded. If left on top, it will take longer to move down through the soil. I might also put some fertilizer on at the same time and work that in too. I would also still do the soil test so that I know exactly what is going on nutrient-wise. There can sometimes be problems with micro-nutrients that will affect how the macro-nutrients get used by the plants, so you may end up applying something that the plants can't do anything with.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

Since you are in Massachusetts you will have access to bulk wood ash for a soil amendment. Substituting wood ash for some or all of your lime needs would give you a real boost of potassium and can be much cheaper than lime even though it is only half as effective as bulk lime. It also is very fast acting. Applied this fall it would be absorbed into the soil for Spring growth. Red clover is well suited to this area and will die out after 3 years or so if you mow it 2-3 times each summer before it goes to seed. You could no till more orchard grass into it each year as the clover retreats. After 2-3 years you could have a 2/3 orchard grass, 1/3 clover hay field. That method has worked for us on several smaller reclaimed fields up here.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

SInce your only talking about 3 acres I would put in all my amendment needs now and put down 75 pounds of Orchard grass now and you will be that much further ahead of the game.....Orchard grass is very tolerable and planting in the fall will give you a nice root system to withstand a possible drought next summer. But do like Josh suggests and incorporate your amendments well into the soil.....then sow and roll(pack) down the seed.

Regards, Mike


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## JRSutton (Sep 22, 2014)

I WILL do a soil test, my point was I already know roughly what the results are going to be. It'll need lots of everything, especially lime. (I've tested several other fields near this one)

It's really the AMOUNT of lime that mostly has me hesitating here. I feel like if I try to do it all at once, the amounts are too large to be very accurate.

For example, last field I tested, the recommendation was 3 1/2 tons of lime per acre, which was 6 months after already disking in 2 tons per acre.

So I'm guessing I'll need at least 5 1/2 - 6 tons per acre here. The thought of putting that much line in all at once just doesn't feel right. I feel like I'll be trying to grow grass in lime. Add in all the other nutrients and it feels even worse - like chemical soup.

Or is that amount normal?

My instinct was to bring it up incrementally - do one good dose now - then re-analyze in the spring. Using a cover crop just to add some organic matter and bring up the nitrogen. Then just mix in that crop with a new batch of lime (and other nutrients as necessary) and seed the orchard grass then.

Again - I realize I'm probably over thinking it for such a small field, but I'm very interested in learning here since I may be doing the same thing in a much larger field next year..

I appreciate the input so far - you've all given me something to think about.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

The general rule I've always used with lime is no more than 2 tons per acre at a single time. I would put some on now and incorporate it in and then maybe next summer put some more on, if it is really out to lunch on the pH. Lime takes a while to move through the soil, so doing it over a course of a few years is probably the better route. Even with the fertilizer, if the field has been neglected, it will take time to bring it back to where it should be.

Are you planing on harvesting this cover crop or just tilling it right back into the soil? I remember a lot of folks around me using some grass/grain that they would plow under once it was a foot tall or so. They would put it in in the fall to mitigate erosion and then plow it under in the spring.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Agree with Josh on the lime tonnage.....but I see no real advantage to waiting until spring to plant orchard grass. Good luck however.

Regards, Mike.


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## JRSutton (Sep 22, 2014)

The only reason I was considering a cover crop vs. just starting the orchard grass was that I'm expecting to rip it all up anyways to disc in another large shot of lime in the spring.

So from what some have said here - I do think it's wise to break up the liming like that.

I'll disc a good amount in now - let it soak in till spring - do a test, and disc in the recommended amount then. Because I believe it'll still want a good 2 - 3 tons an acre in the spring, I think it's best to disk that large amount too instead of just a surface application.

So if I'm tearing it up anyways - I don't think it matters whether I plant grass or a cover crop. It'll all be good organic matter.

BUT - using some legumes would add a lot of nitrogen in the spring. So - it's free fertilizer, and would help zero out the cost of the cover crop seed.

That's my logic anyways.

Still on the fence though - I'll continue to think about it.

I've got a much larger field to reclaim next year - so important that I learn now!


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Another idea for a nitrogen source is birdsfoot trefoil. I mix it in 2:1 timothy/birdsfoot on my fields and it does very nice. It should mix with orchard grass as well. The birdsfoot isn't as touchy as alfalfa as far as soil conditions or harvest timing and is a lot less problematic than clover as far as not getting dusty. It will really show up in second cutting and I've had some customers ask me if it was alfalfa (I was honest with them instead of just saying yes and jacking up the price  ).


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I have put two tons/ac. of lime on the surface with no tillage many many times. It takes about a year for it to be fully effective, but it will start to become active very soon after application.....and many others have limed this way also. It is better to incorporate if doing tillage, but will work just fine without doing tillage...just not quite as fast. Either way will give desirable results.

Regards, Mike


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Vol said:


> I have put two tons/ac. of lime on the surface with no tillage many many times. It takes about a year for it to be fully effective, but it will start to become active very soon after application.....and many others have limed this way also. It is better to incorporate if doing tillage, but will work just fine without doing tillage...just not quite as fast. Either way will give desirable results.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I, too have done the same. The key is not letting the ground become deficient.


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

Don't rule out wood ash, seems like everyone skipped right over it. Do some reading on it, it's an awesome resource to have. Bulk lime is rarely used in my area anymore, nearly everyone uses wood ash now.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

You can also get bottom ash which is suppposedly bigger chunks (what I've seen didn't look different), which work well when disked in. The guy from Caselle told it was much cheaper than the fly ash I usually use.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Dill, How do you apply the ash? Spin spreader? Manure spreader? Buy it applied? or some other alternative? I'm suspecting that my fields are going to need some serious correction!

Dave


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I used a wet lime spreader the county owns, that was I think the best way. I also mixed it in with wet manure, but I wasn't as happy with how that worked. It clumped up. A neighbor put it out with a truck mounted salt spreader. I don't think he was able to slow down enough for a heavy application.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

It's to late now that you plowed the field, I have in the past applied 2 tons of lime per acre before plowing and an additional 1 ton during disking. Other than this example, max I put on is 2 tons per acre per year.


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