# MF 1839 vs NH 5070 Capacity



## armyturner (Nov 24, 2011)

We have been thinking of buying a new or gently used square baler. I looked at a used MF 1839 today at a local dealer. Looked to be in good shape, and I have read good things about them on here. I contacted the guy that traded the baler. He traded for a 5070 back in the summer. He says that the baler is in good shape, but he needed something with a higher capacity. He said that he can produce 150+ more bales per hour with the New Holland, 150-175/hr with the MF and 250-300/hr with the NH.

Based off what I have read about the baler, the 1839 is suppose to be one of the highest capacities on the market. Should I be leary of this baler (possible mechanical problem), or was he not using it to its full capacity.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Don't know really what to say or suggest armyturner.....but I have a 1839 and I don't push it to the max and yet average around 200 per hour....mine is only a year old and I have had zero problems so far(certainly expected) and I am 100% satisfied....the maneuverablity of the inline is unsurpassed... Several of our regulars use 5070's so I am sure they will chime in and give a average on their bales per hour. I just never have liked to push anything to maximum output for extended periods......just asking for something to break.

Regards, Mike


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

I just bought a 1839 to replace a Hesston 4590. When I bale I try to make a bale every 12-16 plunger strokes. Which on my biggest fields that are straight, flat, and 1/2 mile long is around 400 bales an hour. That number drops fast on small fields with a lot of turns. I think the 1839 is 7 strokes per minute faster then the 5070 but they are both good machines. I did not even look at a NH baler because the dealer is 50 miles away and I love the maneuverablity of the inline. How I bale the capacity difference would be fairly small and either machine would have worked.


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## mx113 (Jul 20, 2011)

I purchased a new bc5060 late fall last year. This is the first newer square baler that we have ever owned. We have always bales super slow with the old baler. I read on this forum that the baler needs to put about 13 strokes per bale give or take. I baled a couple of fields in late September for our third cutting using a Massey ferguson 383. After starting out in 2nd gear at the pace that I was accustomed to and counting the strokes, I switched to 3rd gear. Counted again and switched to 4th gear and that put the stroke count about where it was recommended. These were good sized windrows raked with a ten wheel rake. At this pace, we were clicking off more than 300 pales per hour and never sheared a pin or anything. I am thankful for this forum. Without it I would still be poking along in second gear and thinking I was doing good. The capacity to get the job done on these newer balers is simply amazing.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I haven't owned Nh or Hesston/Massey of the 14 inch wide balers, but I have of the 16 inch ones. When I owned both and we used them at the same time they seemed to have nearly the same output. However prior to buying the Hesston my dad's cousin came over with his 16 inch wide Hesston. Can't remember the number but he says it was one of the first inlines they made. He was going it seemed twice as fast as I was with our NH of the same size. So that sold me. We bought a newer Hesston which I refered to above going the same output as the one above. We have since sold the hesston and went back to having two NH due to other reasons. I have heard though the Massey and Hesstons have higher capacity, but they have to be perfectly adjusted and perfectly in time to beat a NH which doesn't need to be adjusted so perfect to gain the most output and speed.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Every problem I've heard of with high rates with inlines is uneven raking slugging the stuffer/shear bolts.

175 bales an hour is too low, something was wrong. Even my old JD 336 can hit 300 bales an hour if you run it really hard as in 580 rpm and keep it stuffed. They don't look nice of course. I picked up a 348 this fall I'm hoping will add a few more bales an hour.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I bought a new 5070 hayliner back in April. I had never used a square baler before this past summer so I can not compare it to any other model. I will say though I am nothing but pleased with it and have said it was the best money I ever spent. I never really never timed how many bales to the hour but if I had to guess I would say at least 200 an hour.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Vol said:


> Don't know really what to say or suggest armyturner.....but I have a 1839 and I don't push it to the max and yet average around 200 per hour....mine is only a year old and I have had zero problems so far(certainly expected) and I am 100% satisfied....the maneuverablity of the inline is unsurpassed... Several of our regulars use 5070's so I am sure they will chime in and give a average on their bales per hour. I just never have liked to push anything to maximum output for extended periods......just asking for something to break.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I suppose I should have mentioned that my bales per hour average is done while operating a accumulator behind the baler while baling first cutting Timothy/Orchard grass....I might also add that baling first cutting Timothy/Orchard grass bales per hour will be significantly different than what the bales per hour would be baling 2nd cutting Tim/Orchard or 2nd or later alfalfa. I really speed up on the finer grasses/alfalfa...regardless either NH or MF/Hesston are both very good choices and really it comes down on what your specific needs or personal preferences are.....My 1839 can eat a tremendous sized windrow and raking does not seem to affect its abilities at all....but the hay needs to be cured to swallow the biggest windrows....which is not difficult to achieve if tedded.....HERE.

Regards, Mike


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## Riverside Cattle (Jun 4, 2008)

Capacity comes down to two things: Strokes per minute and Operator skill.

Strokes per Minute (SPM) will determine how many flakes you can make in a minute.
Operator Skill determines how big and consistent those flakes will be.

The MF 1839 has 100 strokes/minute at operating speed
The NH 5070 has 93 strokse/minute at operating speed

Operator skill determines how much hay is fed into the baler.

Those are the facts, here is my opinion. A good operator can overload a conventional baler and get away with it most of the time without breaking a shear bolt. The flakes may be bigger and less per bale but in some hay conditions that will have little effect on the quality of the bale. In other conditions (super dry hay or uneven windrows) the bales will be a mess.

It is easier to overload an inline baler. If the operator tries to stuff too much hay through the baler, shear bolts will break, this is more often the case in wetter hay, or in uneven windrows.

If both conditions are the same The inline (MF 1839) can out bale the conventional (NH 5070). But (again this is my opinion) the Inline takes a little better operator to find the sweet spot of high production without overloading the baler)

Having said all that, the Inline will always produce a more consistent and uniform bale than a conventional. That doesn't mean a conventional won't make a good bale it just takes a better windrow or a better operator.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I was thinking that we needed to go with some inlines, but after seeing the bales..... Most of our hay gets sold on it's looks. Many folks just don't like the way an inline has the cut side with the strings, they think something is wrong. I know a guy who had 2 inlines, and he didn't like them, said the capacity was too low. His other balers are MF, but the one little baler has left and was replaced by a BC5070. He says the Hesston makes a nicer bale, but he has had too many problems with shearbolts and such on his. Most of the time it's some hired help that runs his baler.

That said, I think that if the owner runs the baler most of the time, bales at about 13-16 strokes per bale, then the MF is fine. If a guy wants to push things and have a maximum of like 11 strokes per bale, then you have to go with the NH. The NH is built like a tank, and has the most capacity of any baler in the feeder area, and will make bales all day being overfed.

Rodney


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*the Inline will always produce a more consistent and uniform bale than a conventional. *
*That doesn't mean a conventional won't make a good bale it just takes a better windrow or a better operator*

This is true from my observations. 
I have always run a conventional, and like to be able to watch the bale drop off the bale turner. If you can detect the tie and you can see when the bale drops off, you have a good idea of how the bale length is doing.

*The MF 1839 has 100 strokes/minute at operating speed
The NH 5070 has 93 strokse/minute at operating speed*

I heard a NH factory man say to run the baler at the fastest strokes per minute in your owners manual. My old NH 315 says 83 strokes/min up to 90 strokes/min. 
His reason was the faster it is running the greater the momentum of the plunger when the knife is cutting the hay.
The 315 book says to bale a at 15 strokes/bale for a 38" bale length. We want each flake to be 2.5" to 3" wide, so for me I drop back a gear when the baler trips the tying system at 11 strokes and go up a gear at 18 strokes per bale.
The key to a uniform bale length is a 2" to 3" flake width. That way you the bale can vary no more than an inch or two.

The 5070 or it's new brother should be able to run at 100 strokes/minute. Thirteen strokes per bale is 7.7 bales a minute. or 462 bales an hour, with no lost time in baling. That is why turns cost. If you could bale a continious circle with no right angle turns that is ideal. If it is costing $200 an hour to run the baler then your baling cost will be $0.44/Bale plus the wire or string 462 bales/hr, 
Baling at 300 bales an hour, which is what I average with my old NH 315, the baling cost is $0.60 plus the string or wire.

This is why we should figure baling cost by so much an hour, not by the bale or the acre. In some odd shaped fields we may be down to 150 bales an hour. If your baling charge is $0.75/ a bale and your cost is $1.20/bale the baler is loosing money.

The mowers also cost by the hour. With odd shaped fields it takes more time to cut, rake, ted an odd shaped field with lots of turns and point rows.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I know I've read a 1000x on here about counting ur strokes per bale. But here's my question......how are you doing that? When I'm running I'm watching the pickup, the accumulator, and where I'm going. I suppose I could have someone sit in the instructor seat and count for me for awhile but that wont work if I'm by myself. Now on most of my grass fields, we are only baling 1st cutting. So its a large-heavy windrow requiring a slow speed. But that's still a lot to pay attention to. I have to keep an eye on the holescher as time too time it has an issue. I would also be interested to hear if anyone has come up with a weight scale/system for square bales? I've been brain storming on how a guy could do it but I haven't come up with a good idea. The problem for me is how do you balance the scale or suspend it in the chute or the exit? There's not enough space. Prob a million dollar question! The only idea that I could think of was to put a scale system on the accumulator similar to a round baler scale. That way when you have your accumulator full, you could basically have a quick average over the 10 bales before it dumps.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

CockrellHillFarms said:


> I know I've read a 1000x on here about counting ur strokes per bale. But here's my question......how are you doing that? When I'm running I'm watching the pickup, the accumulator, and where I'm going. I suppose I could have someone sit in the instructor seat and count for me for awhile but that wont work if I'm by myself. Now on most of my grass fields, we are only baling 1st cutting. So its a large-heavy windrow requiring a slow speed. But that's still a lot to pay attention to. I have to keep an eye on the holescher as time too time it has an issue. I would also be interested to hear if anyone has come up with a weight scale/system for square bales? I've been brain storming on how a guy could do it but I haven't come up with a good idea. The problem for me is how do you balance the scale or suspend it in the chute or the exit? There's not enough space. Prob a million dollar question! The only idea that I could think of was to put a scale system on the accumulator similar to a round baler scale. That way when you have your accumulator full, you could basically have a quick average over the 10 bales before it dumps.


I would like to know how to count strokes also. Do you do it by sound? I can't hear the balers as I'm in a cab tractor.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

In the NH balers there is a block that goes in front of the plunger when the needles are tripped. 
This is called the Latched Weld Assembly. To keep the noise level down there is a rubber bumper to reduce the noise. it is supposed to get in the way of the crank that drives the plunger.
In my baler that bumper wore out and I could hear when the tying machinery st arts in motion. I can hear the bang wearing ear protectors.

I have been counting strokes sense the 1950's = but with that bumper it was difficult to see or hear the equipment start to move. I removed all the safety Shields from the tying mechanism to aid in seeing the thing start to move.

If I ever purchase a new baler I will be sure this rubber bumper is cut off before leaving the Dealers.

While baling I not only count strokes, I keep an eye on the *on the go moisture tester *watch the bale roll off the bale chute, as well as keep an eye on where I am going. I also estimate the bale length and when I become interested get off and measure the bale length as well as the bale weight. Have a measuring tape hooked to my belt for when needed.

Been doing it so long as to be second nature and so difficult to explain.

I have been counting strokes sense the 1950's, but with that bumper it was difficult to see or hear the equipment start to move. I removed all the safety Shields from the tying mechanism to aid in seeing the thing start to move. Cutting off that rubber bumper did the trick.


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## mx113 (Jul 20, 2011)

I had a buddy walk with the baler and count the strokes. I can hear the strokes, but can't hear the bales trip. I'm baling with an open station tractor as well.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I can count the strokes on my NH 570, and just count from when a bale leaves the thrower 'til the next one leaves! May not be precise, but works fine when averaged over 5 bales!
JMHO: 12-15 strokes in a 36" bale is ideal, and more strokes is better than less!

PS: A Blessed CHRISTmas to all here.
Dave & Linda


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

To count my strokes I wait for my hoelscher to trip and then count the packer fork strokes until 2 bales are set on the table and divide by 2.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't use an accumulator or a thrower and it's quite a bit before I can even see the bale behind the baler.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I can count the strokes on my NH 570, and just count from when a bale leaves the thrower 'til the next one leaves! May not be precise, but works fine when averaged over 5 bales!
> JMHO: 12-15 strokes in a 36" bale is ideal, and more strokes is better than less!
> 
> PS: A Blessed CHRISTmas to all here.
> Dave & Linda


PS: I forgot to say that I can usually detect the sound when the knotters trip!


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

We just bought a 5070 hayliner and traded in our 315(no complaints just slow). The hayliner is pretty well built with extended chamber and such. BUT if the rows aren't consistant it does not make a nice bale! We baled side by side with an inline baler this year on hilly ground and that was where it beat the hayliner, always made a nice bale. The inline baler was slower than the hayliner but that may have been the operator. We really never run anything at full capacity unless there is rain coming. I did 7500 bales of straw this year and maybe missed 5 knots.

The other thing that i really cant say is average bales per hour, we do all of our hay manually stacked on wagons so we our always stopping and starting, but i have the toughest labor around and we can bale two wagons in about an hour (300) bales. The hayliner outran a new 348 in straw and hay. Which really ticked my nieghbor off!

That being said, thats my two cents and Merry Christmas to all!!!


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

First time poster. Sure was glad to find this forum. I am actually finishing the paperwork today on a 1839, and this discussion has really been helpful. I currently have a NH 315 with an accumlator that I have used for the past 9 years. The 315 has done a great job but want to upgrade. From someone who already has a 1839, how much adjustment needs to be made for initial startup? I live up in the mtns of nw NC and am a small producer, 'round 8000 per year of orchard and Timothy mix grass hay. Hope to increase that this year.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

blueridgehay said:


> First time poster. Sure was glad to find this forum. I am actually finishing the paperwork today on a 1839, and this discussion has really been helpful. I currently have a NH 315 with an accumlator that I have used for the past 9 years. The 315 has done a great job but want to upgrade. From someone who already has a 1839, how much adjustment needs to be made for initial startup? I live up in the mtns of nw NC and am a small producer, 'round 8000 per year of orchard and Timothy mix grass hay. Hope to increase that this year.


Did you get the bale tensioner? if so set it(adjust knob while operating before hay take-up) about 110 pounds pressure and that will get you close to a 50 pound bale....then fine tune. That will probably be all you need to do other than put the twine in and cycle it through by hand to load it in the knotter. A 1839 makes the prettiest and most consistent bale IMO.

Regards, Mike


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

Yes. I got the bale tensioner and hydraulic pickup. I'm really lookin forward to gettin it. I have always used a conventional baler, never an inline. I'm buyin the baler from a dealer pretty good ways away, so won't have any help with setup.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

blueridgehay said:


> Yes. I got the bale tensioner and hydraulic pickup. I'm really lookin forward to gettin it. I have always used a conventional baler, never an inline. I'm buyin the baler from a dealer pretty good ways away, so won't have any help with setup.


Know what you mean about the distance....mine came about 50 miles away. I had them run a half dozen bales thru it before they delivered it last April just to make sure it was tying as it should. Might ask them to get 4-6 squares and cut them and spread them out and do a test tying run for you.

Regards, Mike

P.S. Blueridge, its great to have you aboard....it would be useful to all if you could edit your profile and enter your location....at least your state.... and then that may help someone about giving a informed response for your general area.


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

Great idea. I actually bought the baler from a dealer in Ok, who beat everybody round here by enough to justify me traveling that far to pick it up. Still can't believe the difference in price.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

It should outrun the 348, the JD is now bottom of the capacity heap. I just bought a 348 this fall knowing it isn't the most tons per hour but I like the reliability of the JD balers and I'm used to them. My 336 has been my most reliable piece of hay equipment.



sethd11 said:


> The hayliner outran a new 348 in straw and hay. Which really ticked my nieghbor off!


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> It should outrun the 348, the JD is now bottom of the capacity heap. I just bought a 348 this fall knowing it isn't the most tons per hour but I like the reliability of the JD balers and I'm used to them. My 336 has been my most reliable piece of hay equipment.


Bout every piece of hay equipment I currently own is green, either Krone green or JD green, except for my NH 315 baler. I really struggled with this one, but gonna try this inline.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> It should outrun the 348, the JD is now bottom of the capacity heap. I just bought a 348 this fall knowing it isn't the most tons per hour but I like the reliability of the JD balers and I'm used to them. My 336 has been my most reliable piece of hay equipment.


Nothing wrong with a JD baler....some folks struggle with the auger jamming in first cutting but I always just eased back a little bit in heavy first cut windrows....I ran one for years and it did a great job...you can run faster in 2nd cut and later....or at least I was able to. If you let your hired help operate the baler, they are liable to jam the auger....but probably will seldom happen with you operating the baler.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't quite get the auger jamming issue, on my 336 my windguard is set quite loose but its still the first thing to jam and stall the pickup in heavy hay. I can't say I've ever jammed the auger even with 4-5 flake bales when I was first getting used to a lower capacity baler.



Vol said:


> some folks struggle with the auger jamming in first cutting


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

For those wanting to count strokes - you can get an electronic readout of strokes per bale in the cab from 2 sources, one of which might be on this forum. Be prepared to shell out $350-$450 for one. If you can't hear the plunger strokes, then that's the only option for you, but it won't mean a thing if you don't pay attention to it. I got one, and the guy that ran that baler just told me how it varied..... the object is to try to keep the number the same..... I can't win for losing with these guys!

The best thing that a guy can do is to make uniform rolls, and to find out how to drive in thos condistions - a tape measure is needed, and the method of measuring MUST be consistent all of the time, across ALL of the operators.

Rodney


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

I have an electronic stroke counter on our baler and find it quite useful in maintaining bale consistency. Unfortunately I think the company that manufactured mine is no longer in business.

Jim


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## Hand&Hand Farms (Feb 5, 2011)

I have an 1835 ( the small one of the bunch) and will never go back to an offset. It will do 250 to 300 an hour, IF it is raked in a nice neat uniform windrow. Yes in a crappy windrow it will shear bolts. Never ran a square so tough. 5k to 8k every year for 3 years no problems. Yep once the rubber pads wear off, no problem counting strokes.


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## alison farms (Jan 17, 2013)

I use a 1839 massey in-line in a round bale converting operation and have very few problems. Have used jd 348's and nh 570 &575's and have found the inline will out last them all 3 to 1
Al @alisonfarms


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