# JD Loader Problem



## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

JD 6415 with 563 loader, the 6415 is a 2003 year, and the 563 was put on new this past July, and has JD Joy stick control. Tractor has ~850hrs on it. Hydro oil was changed around ~450hrs. Not sure if filter has ever been changed on Hydro oil.

Problem is that I have noticed that when I pick up a bale of hay, it lifts really slow, and sometimes not at all for a few seconds holding the Joy stick all the way back. Its is really bad when its cold out and the tractor is still cool, but even when warm, it does it. Its been this way since I got the loader on but its starting to get worse. I thought It might have just been heavy bales at first, but now that I got my other loader on a smaller tractor, and it lifts bales like they were nothing, I think there is something wrong with the other one.

Now one thing that is odd, if I pull back on the joy stick to lift up, and it dont do anything, wile still pulling back, I can pull to the side as to tilt the fork/bale up and it will start to lift then while tilting as well.

I was going to change the Hydro oil filter on the tractor anyway, but all the rear hydro's work good and the 3-point hitch which is Hydro works fine, so I dont think its anything in the system unless its in the loader valves or something. Thought it might just need a linkage adjustment form the joy stick, but haven't looked into that yet.

Any Ideas?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm not familiar with how John Deere works, sounds like a valve problem. Does the joystick connect directly to the valve body or does it use cables like some new Hollands I've seen? If it uses cables it could be it's not getting enough travel on the raise valve.


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## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I'm not familiar with how John Deere works, sounds like a valve problem. Does the joystick connect directly to the valve body or does it use cables like some new Hollands I've seen? If it uses cables it could be it's not getting enough travel on the raise valve.


It conects with cables to the control valve body.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Figure out which way the valve moves to raise it, then while the tractor is off have some one move the lever to the raise position then to the lower position and see if it looks like the spool in the valve travels the same amount both directions.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Does that tractor have a power beyond for the loader, Im asking because my 6415 does, That could be your problem.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

My first thought would be that it's low in hydraulic fluid.


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## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

NDVA HAYMAN;19732]My first thought would be that it's low in hydraulic fluid.

X2


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## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

BCFENCE said:


> Does that tractor have a power beyond for the loader, Im asking because my 6415 does, That could be your problem.


Power Beyond? I have heard of this before, but not sure what this is exactly, can someone exlpane or tell me what to look for here and how it could be the problem? The tractor is preaty standard / base, so not alot of options on it.


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## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> My first thought would be that it's low in hydraulic fluid.


I thought this too a few months back, I checked it thinking the dealer might not have toped it off after the loader install, but it was to the bottom of the safe mark on the dip stick, I added a Gallon and that placed it at the top or just over the safe mark, can't remeber, but no change performance.

Now someone else with a 6415 might can help me here with the dip stick on the hydro. The dip stick is plastic, and has a black plastic pice that is the Safe level mark but this black pice looks to be adjustable on the main plastic part of the dip stick. Now if this were moved or set worng, It could be low and I not now any better. I dont think this the case though, but anyone else know what I am talking about. Anyone else with a 6415 that could measure this marker to the bottom of the dip stick so I could compare.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

To rule of the power beyond question pull the loader control to lift it,(start with the loader down so you have time to try things out) then pull one of the remote handles back to raise with nothing plugged in (this will block flow to the other valve). If when you do this speed changes or the loader valve sticks or is hard to move in and out of the different positions than chances are its either missing or the oring on it is blown. Also, since I am not sure which way JD gives priority you can try turning the steering wheel at the same time as lifting the bucket. Maybe the priority valve is stuck (the symptoms are usualy reversed if it is a priority valve ie. poor steering)
Second thought, when you say its cold, how cold do you mean? I alm thinking that you are from a fairly warm area of the US, if so there is a possibility that the oil is the wrong viscosity for the temp.
Just to help to trouble shoot this do you know if the tractor has closed center hydraulic circuit or open center? Closed center is better in nearly every situation except for cold or the wrong oil viscosity. Also change the hydraulic filter!!!


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I believe that tractor has a pressure sensitive closed center system.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

If it is press compensated there will not likely be a suction filter but if there is you will want to change it (now if not sooner). I think that you willl have to do some of the tests i described and make sure of the oil grade and the climate in your area before I can be of mutch help. Sorry but I don't know what I am dealing with. John Deere HYGUARD in our area is a SAE-w-20 oil, John Deere sells these tractor with hydraulic oil heaters in them because of how sensitive these pumps are to the oil viscosity. Even they will not work well in the -25 degree weather. If there were a question of power or force you could put a pressure gauge in a hydraulic coupler and test it, but from what I understand it is speed or flow.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

Toyes Hill Angus said:


> John Deere HYGUARD in our area is a SAE-w-20 oil, John Deere sells these tractor with hydraulic oil heaters in them because of how sensitive these pumps are to the oil viscosity. Even they will not work well in the -25 degree weather.


I think Toyes Hill Angus might be on to something here.

I have a 6415 with a 640 loader and when it is very cold my loader will do the same thing until the oil warms up a little. When it does it can you hear a hydraulic whine? I wonder if your hydraulic oil is too thick. I can check tomorrow to see where the adjustable piece is on the dipstick but I really don't think that is your problem. I have accidentally ran mine low a couple times and not caught it until I was checking things the next morning and I did not have any loader problems.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I believe the original poster is in Alabama, I can't see it ever getting cold enough there to require a thinner hydraulic oil.

If everything else fails, might want to have your dealer check the pump output.

I'm still guessing it has something to do with the loader valve itself since something was mentioned about it working better when the loader was in the raise position and the bucket was also being rolled back. But it's the wrong color green for me, and our John Deere's are yellow so I won't be the least bit surprised if I'm wrong.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

reading that this problem is in Alabama I don't beleive it to be oil either. Ceck out the other tests...


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## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

Made a trip to the local JD store at lunch to get Filters, talked with there expert on Hydro. He seemed to think its a linkage problem, thinks there is a Locking nut lose and the control cable is sliding back and forth instead of working the valve, or there is something lose at the joy stick end. The way the cables and linkage is desinged there is no adjustments, you screw the cables down, lock-um and thats it.

Got the day off tomorrow, going to change the two filters and check out the linkage cables and I'll report back.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

If the adjusters are tight on the cables at the valve end don't forget about the controller end. I don't know what's on the JD coltroller, the Alo controller can come loose and the the cable's sleeve move, wasting motion and not moving the valve.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

any progress?


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## springhollowhayfarm (Jan 25, 2011)

mlappin said:


> any progress?


Not much yet. I backed the tractor in the shed where I work on things, raised the loader up, proped it with wood so I would not seep down, had a fuel leak I fixed first, then a thousand other things happend so I have not got back to it, its just sitting there waiting, been using the other tractor to do what I need too.

I did take a quick look at the Cables on the outside at the valves, everything looked to be tight and right, I did however find a leak on one of the lines, I dont think it has anything to do with the problem, but I think the fitting leaking needs a new O-ring. When we got the loader they put one of those quick disconect boxes on the side that unhooks all the Hydro lines to the loader at the same time with the pull of a lever, never taken it off, but one of the fittings at the bottom is leaking a bit where the line screws into the block. does make me wonder if something in that block is not put together right, might even be why there is a leak there. I pulled up the blow up diagram on Deere site and when you take that fitting out, there is some springs and other parts that go up in there, just makes me wonder. Probably sould do away with that whole block, I dont use it anyway.

I'll post more when I get time to look at if futher.


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