# So what do you consider to be "cattle hay"?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I see a lot of lower cost hay on CL, including some of mine 

1. Exactly what would you expect to be the "downgrade" to hay that makes it "cattle hay".

Higher moisture? Browner appearance? More weeds? Over-Mature stage baling?

All of the above? haha

2. Exactly what is it that beef herd cattle will tolerate that can be in a hay bale that horses (or their finicky owners) wont tolerate?

I'm trying to develop some kind of visual or content difference between what would "downgrade" a bale to cattle hay.

Mods: please delete duplicate thread. sorry


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Aside from dust or mold, which obviously preclude hay from the horse market, I think cattle hay is that which horse owners don't want. Therefore, cattle hay is more definied by what the premium buyers won't accept in your specific area instead of something that actually has its own definition.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Depends on how big the snow drifts are .


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

panhandle9400 said:


> Depends on how big the snow drifts are .


Bingo, they got all day to pick through it, most hay is just a filler anyways always need to feed supplements with it


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Here it is weed free Bermuda grass with no stems. That is what horse people expect. Some growers are not as particular about it as others. Alfalfa has to be trucked in and is pricy.

Lately Tifton 9 Bahia has been marketed as horse hay.

Cow hay can be Johnson grass, Fescue or a mix of grasses (invasive included). Since no one wants to pay much for a roll of cow hay, it is seldom fertilized and on the tough side.

A lot of guys bale old pastures to keep the owners from bush hogging them.

All of my cow hay is sprayed and fertilized. More hay on less ground is my way of thinking. I can not afford to sell my cow hay. Just no market for it here when others are selling anything they can roll for $25.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Dusty, moldy, and fines downgrade any hay from horse hay.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Main issues are:

-Late Harvest

-Excess Weeds

-Mold/Dust or the possibility of a quality issue.

I sell my best to the horse people. Most everyone else is a lot more understanding if quality isnt 100% for various reasons. Sheep and goats get finner stemmed hay that could have dust or mold. Cattle people get any of the hay that didnt make horse hay due to moisture or weeds.

Sell the best, feed the rest...


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Here cow hay is what is not suitable to feed horses due to weeds, mold, stored outside,.......or hay that horse owners generally don't want like over mature, poor color, rained on but baled dry. Therefore usually what is sold as cow hay tends to be some pretty rough stuff. In your area I imagine what you call mushroom hay is about the same as the cow hay sold here. Here it is almost useless to try and sell good quality hay for cows since nobody will pay the price for it.


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

If they'll eat it, and nobody else will buy it, it's bovine forage.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

The lower price point I often see is somebody not adjusting the cost of the bale to the increase in input prices. I'm not going to bale hay if it's cheaper for me bush hog it and let the cows eat it. When you bale surplus spring forage, that pays for itself by preventing waste.

Now I will save premium hay for the cows, horses can have the subpar hay. I do not own horses. I understand the pitfalls of dealing with horse owners.

By my standards:

Premium: perfect hay for cattle and working ranch horses
Good/Great: suitable for cattle and working ranch horses, less than 10% weeds and may be dried a day too long. 
Fair: perfect for all other horses, cattle is okay. Less than 25% weeds, some Broomstraw, rain sprinkled on once, dried 2 days too long. 
Poor: greater than 20% weeds, rain poured on, smells moldy, or full of broomstraw, perfect for all other horses because they eat dirt anyway.

By Crazy Horse People standards:
Premium: 110% weed free, non GMO, green as the day it's mowed, and expensive. 
All other hay: not good enough for the horse, must be cow hay.

While this may appear amusing, it's quite the truth. Plus it's my personal professional opinion that has not been proved wrong, I must be a fence post. I do not categorize hay by an animal. If it's hungry, it will eat it.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Weedy, even wet, I like over mature alfalfa , dry grass rank grass.. I really like high moisture hay.. But I won't feed moldy hay to my cows or calves.. even if it's been processed and mixed in a ration. it can make mama cows abort and will make young calves have lung issues.. no mold hay feed here


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

No serious mold, white mold (dust) is ok......everything else that grows in the fields here is A ok, be it briars or burrs. Funny thing is, if hay gets real scarce, it has a way of turnin better......


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Some of my best selling horse hay year after year has been the late mature cut. As long as its green and non dusty the horse people like it.

Also can sell the same hay to a horse person and a cow guy but attach the BS fee to the horse hay 

But usually the cattle hay is not as green, maybe more brown, or a spot in the field where the hay was still damp. But I do get some horse people who buy the cattle hay cause its cheaper and than phone me up to complain about how its not the best hay. Will you get what you pay for.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

here another though I watch alot of these Dairies grow the most lush alfalfa then ruin it by trying to cut every 28 days when it's not mature and it won't dry. I shake my head and want to cry... my beef cows graze on some of the crappy pastures you could image but they get good mineral and protein tubes.. when they come off grass when the snow flies here they get good hay because the winter are long here and crappy hay only pulls them down and they are my main cash flow so I want them in good shape.. I'am lucky here cause I get a lot of good hay that isn't good enough for old betty to make her give 90lbs of milk a day.. But I've seen beef cows eat some bad crap and keep living


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Pretty simple.....Anything I square bale and put in the shed is horse hay, we feed it. Anything I roll up and store by the fence is cow hay, we sell it. With the weather this year, I'm making a lot of cow hay, but every bale is already sold.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

For me, Bahia from Louisiana... Bought the stuff during the drought of 2011 for $120 per round bale delivered. Longhorns will eat leaves off of trees, damn near eat dirt and they turned there nose up to it! Maybe it was marshy? 30 of the 60 just rotted away and I used them as mulch around trees.

On my land, I am going for the perfection of weed free, fertilized coastal with the perfect moisture content where it's stored under cover. Now, not sure what kind of hay you call that, (horse or cow) I just feel the time and effort it takes to bale, might as well try to make it the best hay for the type of grass it can be...


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Hay.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Good hay is for cows (and sheep and hogs) good hay CAN be for other stuff...other peoples' horses after I am sure i have enough of the good stuff for my critters. Then again, "good" alfalfa has been goin for around $ 3.12 per small bale here. My potentially-money-making critters get the best of what i make...and plenty of it
73, Mark


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

I had baled up some rank hay to get it off the field and was selling it as "mulch hay" at $2 per bale just to clear it out of the barn.

Guy bought every bale and fed it to his horses. Called back wanting more.

Go figure.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So if I round bale reeds canary and a few other grasses along with 20% weeds an moisture is like 15% on average and bales are 50% green, I'm on the radar for "cattle hay"?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So if I round bale reeds canary and a few other grasses along with 20% weeds an moisture is like 15% on average and bales are 50% green, I'm on the radar for "cattle hay"?


Might depend in the weeds. If they're something that cattle will easily pick around, I'll buy weedy hay. If it's something that I don't want the seeds of or think will make it harder for cattle to pull the good parts out of the feeder, I usually pass. I always buy cheap hay to feed my cows so that I can sell the good hay.


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

Hay for my cattle is horse quality Bermuda that is sprayed, fertilized and put up the best I possibly can. My cattle produce income for me so they are well cared for. Coming into spring, they look about like they did in the fall. I haven't fed protein tubs in years. I also raise my own grain and grind my own feed, so with the combination of the nutrients in the hay and feed ration I have not had to supplement. And my calves show it as well. My calves last year averaged 715 lbs at 8 months. I don't sell much of my hay but when I do it is to horse people.

But most people around me that have just a few cattle will bale anything they can run a mower and baler over. I have baled stuff for others that I wouldn't waste my time baling to fill a gully. And their cattle show it. I just don't understand these guys letting their cattle get into such poor shape that it takes to mid summer to get body condition back to where it should be and then do it all over again.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

SilentH,

If'n y'all ever get in a bind over there next door, get in touch with me. I suspect you were unlucky enough to run across one of the guys that took advantage of the situation a few years ago, and is now out of the hay business. We took good care of our Texas neighbors during that time, and will do it again in a heart beat. The only ones I will never help are the ones that insist on referring to my home as "Lousy-ana."

Sterve


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

the only way I


JD3430 said:


> So if I round bale reeds canary and a few other grasses along with 20% weeds an moisture is like 15% on average and bales are 50% green, I'm on the radar for "cattle hay"?


...................The only way I have ever got cows to eat reeds canary grass is if I grind it and mix it in small amounts with good hay.. they almost have to be starving before they will eat that in a bale .. heck they don't even like to graze it in the fields when it's green and growing


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

snowball said:


> the only way I...................The only way I have ever got cows to eat reeds canary grass is if I grind it and mix it in small amounts with good hay.. they almost have to be starving before they will eat that in a bale .. heck they don't even like to graze it in the fields when it's green and growing


No sh!t!! Mine and my customers cattle eat it up like candy!!


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

My cows love reed canary. I noticed the other day where a fence of mine goes through a low spot that has reed canary growing the cows have eaten inside the fence to about 8 inches tall and reached over the fence and ate the tops off everything they could reach. There is plenty of other grass in that fence so there must be something to the reed canary that they like this time of year.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Really ? we're talking the reeds canary grass that mostly grows in the waterways or wetter area ? can get about 4' tall if you don't cut it ? has a big stem on it and long leaves ?.....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JayTN said:


> . My calves last year averaged 715 lbs at 8 months. .


My experience down here in Texas is one is loosing money if one sells calves that weigh very much over 400# vs 600# won't dollar out much more than 400#. I wonder if it's still that way since the price of calves has gone drastically down lately?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

readcanary,cut early cut often.It will turn to crap when mature.2nd cutting makes some nice calf hay or horse hay.Thunder will pick out the read canary to eat out of mixed grass hay,loves it.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Snowball- how would they eat alfalfa if you forgot to cut it until September?

Over ripe they will pick through quite a bit. Young and tender is a different story.

Griffin turns it into milk...


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

Tx Jim, As of the markets right now, I can still make a couple hundred more per calf selling 7 weights vs 4 to 5 weights. Now when the markets were crazy high like they were last time I sold, I would have gotten nearly the same money for anything between 4's and 7's. The last load averaged 715 and sold for $2.25 lb. and they were still bulls as I never got around to castrating. All things considered, I think I have a little different situation than a lot of producers. I have more pasture than I have cattle. So my target calving dates are between the end of Dec and the end of Feb. This way, when my calves are starting to eat good my grass is coming out. I then run them until the end of summer on grass. If I sold early I would have to mow the pasture a couple times a year as it's not suitable to cut for hay. Too hilly and too many terraces. Therefore I usually sell calves before I have to start feeding any hay or grain. And I am not carrying any calves though the winter. Now granted, the markets are lower in the fall versus the spring but since I really don't have any overhead in my calves per say, I wean at 7 months, worm, give both rounds of vaccinations and feed on grain for 30 days before selling at around 8 months.

What are your thoughts on the way I do things? Any input is appreciated as I still try to learn every day.

And on another note, how do I do a quote? I can't get it to work! I am just a dumb ole electrician and self proclaimed farmer that's not very computer literate!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

snowball said:


> Really ? we're talking the reeds canary grass that mostly grows in the waterways or wetter area ? can get about 4' tall if you don't cut it ? has a big stem on it and long leaves ?.....


Yea but cut earlier than the 4' high height, it's pretty good hay


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> Snowball- how would they eat alfalfa if you forgot to cut it until September?
> 
> Over ripe they will pick through quite a bit. Young and tender is a different story.
> 
> Griffin turns it into milk...


Not that over mature Moose I mean like full bloom.. say the normal 1st cutting is June 10 th .. and I like to make it about the 29th or 25th of june not 60 days late LOL


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Here's another disagreement I had this summer with a New Holland salesman in my shop...... He was try'n to sell me on the bale slice option.. my Vermeer doesn't have that .... he said cattle will eat all the hay in the feeders cause it's sliced... I Say BS cause it not all sliced the 1st 30" and the last 6" the slicer is not engaged.... then I told him my cows have nothing better to do than stick their heads in a bale of hay during the winter... and these were my exact words to him " SO WHY WOULD I WANT TO SPEND 15 OR 1800.00 TO BUY A SLICER ON A BALER TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MAY COWS TO EAT MORE HAY ????" .. He didn't really have a good answer for that other than. (Well They don't waste a much ) I told him If I buy good bale feeders they don't waste hay either..... But what I didn't tell him ... is some of the long stemmed over mature hay I bale might feed better if it was sliced but I process most of that hay anyway.. all this is JMO


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

When I bought my baler in 2013, I asked for the slice option. Salesman told me the price and the mechanical aspects. He talked me out of it. 
The fact that my biggest buyer likes long stems was the deciding factor for me.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Cattle hay for us is anything that is dusty, moldy, weedy, or rained on. Everything else is marketed to horses.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JayTN said:


> Tx Jim, As of the markets right now, I can still make a couple hundred more per calf selling 7 weights vs 4 to 5 weights. Now when the markets were crazy high like they were last time I sold, I would have gotten nearly the same money for anything between 4's and 7's. The last load averaged 715 and sold for $2.25 lb. and they were still bulls as I never got around to castrating. All things considered, I think I have a little different situation than a lot of producers. I have more pasture than I have cattle. So my target calving dates are between the end of Dec and the end of Feb. This way, when my calves are sta
> 
> What are your thoughts on the way I do things? Any input is appreciated as I still try to learn every day.


I really don't know the answer BUT 7 weight's sure didn't sell for anywhere close to $2.25 at the last local auction close to me. I would think you could make more $$$$ by stocking more cattle & selling lighter weight calves. If what you're doing suits you then keep doing it. If I was younger I just run yearlings IE not cow/calf operation.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

We made 1st cutting reed canary hay 1st week of Aug. and took it to local fair as a donation to the beef barn and people wanted to know where the nice looking hay was from.

I don't make hay for a particular market. I make hay to the best of my ability and if a horse owner buys it, it's horse hay. If a guy buys for cattle, it's cow hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IH 1586 said:


> We made 1st cutting reed canary hay 1st week of Aug. and took it to local fair as a donation to the beef barn and people wanted to know where the nice looking hay was from.
> 
> I don't make hay for a particular market. I make hay to the best of my ability and if a horse owner buys it, it's horse hay. If a guy buys for cattle, it's cow hay.


Same here. I make hay the best I can with each field. If I come up short, it gets marketed to a lower quality level.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

IH 1586 said:


> We made 1st cutting reed canary hay 1st week of Aug. and took it to local fair as a donation to the beef barn and people wanted to know where the nice looking hay was from.
> 
> I don't make hay for a particular market. I make hay to the best of my ability and if a horse owner buys it, it's horse hay. If a guy buys for cattle, it's cow hay.


Amen. The main thing I try to be is honest. If the hay is kinda junky I discount it but I tell the buyer up front what they are getting. I have found there are people who only care about price they could care less about quality. I also think about the song "the girls all get prettier at closing time" because about Feb or March people's standards for hay change.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I have an uncle who would buy rained on ugly hay only cheap stuff always said its better then snowballs. He used his cows to clear woods so he could farm the land cut trees down every day cows would eat leaves , twigs and bark off then sell the fire wood.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

dubltrubl said:


> SilentH,
> 
> If'n y'all ever get in a bind over there next door, get in touch with me. I suspect you were unlucky enough to run across one of the guys that took advantage of the situation a few years ago, and is now out of the hay business. We took good care of our Texas neighbors during that time, and will do it again in a heart beat. The only ones I will never help are the ones that insist on referring to my home as "Lousy-ana."
> 
> Sterve


Appreciate the post! I am in the process of rebuilding my herd from 2011. I have learned from that year the importance of a safety net of reserve hay. Therefore I am adding another hay lean to this Winter to where I will be covered for a winter, drought summer and another winter... 2 years of summer drought in a row and I'll be calling you!

Thanks again!

Mark


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Key to feeding lower quality hay to any animal is to feed excess so they eat the best and leave the rest. Basically like eating a steak, you don't eat the bone and all


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