# Opportunity for expansion



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Was asked tonight about doing some planting for a friend this spring and he tacked on casually that he has 200 acres that floods once a summer so he can't plant crops on it but doesn't have time to hay it so they bushhog it in the fall.

This land is underwater all spring and likely produces 2-4 tons of Timothy per acre in an average summer.

It is on an island that is about a 10 mile drive from him, 20 miles for me.

I currently hay about 120 acres total down a bit from a couple of years ago. All but 15 acres is small squares. He currently hays about 80 acres as small square and round bales another 20 or so.

I have done the math and I can't scale my operation up as is and pick up the ground unless I quit my day job which isn't happening.

I wish a bale baron was a bit cheaper or employees easier to find!


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## Redbaler (Jun 10, 2011)

I'm in a similar situation. Bet there are millions of us just working in town for healthcare.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Can't say I'm in a similar situation. If someone has two acres of anything here it's spoken for for eternity. Hopefully you can figure something out.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Jeez I've been scrounging for leases. Ready to buy whenever the right piece pops up knowing I'll have to put off a new tractor for a little longer. Don't want broomstraw/overgrown fields or halfway wooded tracts unless priced right. Waiting on my relative's 110 acres that I'm up for as next in line with lease to own. I used to work part time but wife has the benefits, I just freeload now. Ok I also stay home and raise my little cowboy.

At times I'm almost willing to pay $100 an acre a year for pastureland. Pretty much the same as a 30 year mortgage.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Land value isn't the same up here and a square bale only sells for 3-4$ so all in perspective.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

slowzuki said:


> Was asked tonight about doing some planting for a friend this spring and he tacked on casually that he has 200 acres that floods once a summer so he can't plant crops on it but doesn't have time to hay it so they bushhog it in the fall.
> 
> This land is underwater all spring and likely produces 2-4 tons of Timothy per acre in an average summer.
> 
> It is on an island that is about a 10 mile drive from him, 20 miles for me.


Slow, my concerns would be the quality of the hay. Around here, if it gets underwater, it also gets muddy/dirty from the silt/dirt carried in the water. It will sometimes get rained off of the leaves (after the flood water subsides), but the dirt still ends up in the nooks and crannies of the plant and makes hay that is not very palatable.

You said he is a friend, so that might change the dynamic somewhat over just a landlord; your friend does 2/3 of the amount of hay that you do, it is twice as close to you as to him, he controls the ground, so why the gift on a silver platter. I would assume the quality of the hay is not there. I also do about 17 acres river bottom hay (if you want to call it that), but only makes good hay if the river does not get out and I always put it in big bales....actually it never makes "good" hay because it is weedy from the environment. I had another 35 acres that was given to me a few years ago; I baled it for 1 year; the hay was so dirty that it was not worth the price (free hay plus my labor/equip). I had another brome/OG (IIRC) field that was offered to me on 50/50 last year; the field also floods; I walked the field and wouldn't even take it for free.

If the dirt is not an issue in your flood situation, then I would attempt to consider a way to make it work. Maybe an older big round baler so you could get it off the field faster and rebale as you could sell? Your $3-$4 hay price seems to be on par with here for hay except for alfalfa.

73, Mark


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

People around here grumble at over $4 per bale and our land is 25-30k an acre...


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

I'd go for it. Be kicking yourself if not

Worse thing is you don't get it all baled and end up brush hogging it


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Glasswrongsize, I hear you on the silt, this area when underwater has no grass emerged, in growing season it floods about once per 10 years which does make the hay dusty with silt and not worth baling. The one in 10 is why they can't get crop insurance on the field.

He doesn't hay it because like me he works a day job and hay season is spray season for the 800 or so acres of corn beans and wheat they plant. This field is about the farthest away for him, it's almost an hour round trip as its dirt field roads not highway for him. I have highway until the last 5 miles.

We have been discussing a bale baron purchase for 3 or 4 years as each of us is too small on our own but it's still the problem of who'd get their hay off first.

He also has 100 acres of wheat straw in the fall, I bought a couple of thousand bales of stumpage from him last year that would go through the baron too.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Bushhogging a large fraction of 200 acres does not excite me!



Bgriffin856 said:


> I'd go for it. Be kicking yourself if not
> 
> Worse thing is you don't get it all baled and end up brush hogging it


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Between the two of us we have existing:
3 square balers
2 4x5 round balers
2 10 ft discbines 
2 4 basket tenders
2 rotary rakes
12 kicker wagons
10 flat wagons
6 hay baskets

I have 2 teens and 1 adult for hay help, he has 2 or 3 teens. Both our existing barns are dairy barns built to take square up a conveyor and manually stacked.

He has two old covered sileage bunkers that could be used to store 10,000 bales each in a pinch.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I should add, thats 4$ a bale delivered and put in their loft, with any dusty bales coming back. You can still find people selling from their barns for 2$ which I have no idea how they can do.

If the dollar stays low here a market tends to open up shipping hay to the US. Doesn't pay any better overall but it moves volume.



PaMike said:


> People around here grumble at over $4 per bale and our land is 25-30k an acre...


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

To me, given that the quality is there and you can make net as much (or more?) money per acre as your current 120 acres, I would do it if I felt as though I had the equipment to handle it.
Some of my considerations would be:
Less time with family/leisure time
Faster depreciation of your equipment- but possibly the same per acre depreciation so not really a big deal.
Can you find someone (known and trusted) who could would operate your equipment and help you by cutting, raking, baling or whatever while you are at work on an as-needed basis?
Storage of additional hay.
Can you leave a tractor or equipment there? IE, drive (or haul) tractor there and pull each piece of equipment back and forth with a truck as it is needed. There is going to be a bunch of miles put on the truck even for just hauling the hay from the field to your house. A 40 mile round trip per load is going to start to rack up the windshield time and keep a couple of drivers/trucks busy. The 35 acres that I baled were about 20 miles away also, but I could leave tractor there; so I could send daughter and the pickup with a truck and rake and tell her to return with the tedder. When I got off work, I was ready to rake. Same with each add'l piece of equipment. Now (a couple of years later) I could set her to baling, and if nothing broke or sounded bad, she would keep going 'til I got there.

Personally, if I had a place to store the hay, I would take the offer and scramble to figure the logistics before haying season.
Good luck...going from 120 acres to 320 would be a little nerve-racking until I got started.
The hardest part of a 1000 mile journey is taking that FIRST STEP.
73, Mark


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Great points. I'm hoping if I can solve the logistics in a fair manner that speeds things up, my friend would consider doing 1/2 of it.

We both are short operators or even drivers, that why he's asking for help planting. I'm looking at double hitched balers and a stack wagon or baron or setting up to use his rebaler more efficiently. 5x6 net wrap baler would clear that ground much faster and tolerate a bit of rain.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Baron probably makes the most sense because loading out hay over the fall and winter is a constant family disruption. Each 300 bale load from our barn is about 7.5 hours to load, strap unload and return.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

It is less than an hour in bundles.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

The Quality of the Hay and who your customers are....Your balers are going to pick that silt up and when it dries horse owners won't buy it , cattle guys will make you pay them !!! hahaha !!! Myself I'd jump all over it , But I've been through the corn/soybean "reaming" of recent years....I can't get orchard and alfalfa in the ground fast enough !!!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tater Salad welcome to HT. 
Where are ya in Delaware?
I'm on PA/DE border.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks Tater, Its about 1 in 10 that it gets flooded out and silty but thats not to say it can't happen two years in a row. That would be a disaster if we bought a Baron and were flooded out the first two years... 20-40k bales made worthless just like that.



Tater Salad said:


> The Quality of the Hay and who your customers are....Your balers are going to pick that silt up and when it dries horse owners won't buy it , cattle guys will make you pay them !!! hahaha !!! Myself I'd jump all over it , But I've been through the corn/soybean "reaming" of recent years....I can't get orchard and alfalfa in the ground fast enough !!!!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

A history note on the area, I found before the dam on the river was built in the 1950/60's, hay was put up loose on the island in storage barns with floors raised off the ground to permit flooding underneath, then hauled on the frozen river during the winter to markets or the home farm.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> A history note on the area, I found before the dam on the river was built in the 1950/60's, hay was put up loose on the island in storage barns with floors raised off the ground to permit flooding underneath, then hauled on the frozen river during the winter to markets or the home farm.


That's pretty neat.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Guy we used to buy hay from was renting a former dairy (land and barn) that was next to a river and it was the same way, flood once every spring then once every ten years or so and ruin the hay. The drive thru bank barn was large enough to hold two-three years worth of hay just for that reason


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

Felton DE "JD 3430"... Midstate 12 miles south of Dover

1 in 10 odds of pulling off a decent cut .......Jump and jump on it fast ! Heck that's better crop odds than the weather !!!! We're all nuts just betting weather !!! Ha Ha !!!


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

Matter of fact , Where we are there is NO hay of any kind ......40 lb alfalfa orchard -last cut bales $13 a bale !!!!!!!! Do I have any ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! Do I cry about it ? Yeeeeeees ! Lancaster guys won't fess up either without your 1st born ! I'm Scounging for equipment to expand my soybean ground into alfalfa....Got the barn....no hay !! So once again with all that Quality Western hay heading to Asia , We are becoming silently pretty special Farmers eh Guys ?


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