# Hay storage



## Sylvester Farms (Sep 24, 2014)

We are new to the hay business, we will be storing about 15k small bales in bundles of 21 from our bale Bandit they will be in a large enclosed building with a 6 poured cement floor, our question is do we need to put anything down on the cement so no mosture comes through the floor into the bales?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Sylvester Farms said:


> We are new to the hay business, we will be storing about 15k small bales in bundles of 21 from our bale Bandit they will be in a large enclosed building with a 6 poured cement floor, our question is do we need to put anything down on the cement so no mosture comes through the floor into the bales?


I would put them on pallets. Here it wouldn't be the moisture coming up from the floor into the bales, but the moisture from the bales unable to escape the bales.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Depending on the location concrete can still allow moisture to wick up into dry hay. Teslan is right about the pallets allowing the hay to breathe. It also keeps the hay off the concrete in the event moisture works it's way up. It more apt to happen in seams or expansion joints.

It may be a good idea to put a sealer on the concrete after it has cured well.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Use a vapor barrier under the cement, seal it, and stack on pallets if you want to be triply safe.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Sylvester Farms said:


> We are new to the hay business, we will be storing about 15k small bales in bundles of 21 from our bale Bandit they will be in a large enclosed building with a 6 poured cement floor, our question is do we need to put anything down on the cement so no mosture comes through the floor into the bales?


I can't tell. Does this cement floor already exist or is it still in the planning stages? If it's still a twinkle in your eye, I agree completely about the vapor barrier under it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Here. I stack hay on the ground with nothing but a thin layer of old hay to keep dirt from going into the bales and they never spoil. But if I leave a bale of hay on cement for even 2 days generally it starts spoiling. Much like if I leave bales of hay on the NH hay stacker for a couple days. The part of the bale that is against the metal starts having problems. It doesn't matter if the hay is baled good and dry. So here I wouldn't want a cement floor in a hay barn at all.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have both, the cement works good if it was poured in the last few years and was poured on top of a vapor barrier, even with a barrier I usually run 2 by material on the floor in order to facilitate gettin the forks under the pallets and to keep it off the floor.....


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## Sylvester Farms (Sep 24, 2014)

The cement floor is an older floor poured back in the late eighties, this building was used for corn storage, the former owner told me that when they poured the floor it was 6" deep and no vapor barrier. I do like somedevildawg's idea with the 2x2 material. cheap solution to the problem that appears will allow any mositure to escape from the bales and stop any from coming up. Thank you for the help!!!!


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## haygrl59 (May 19, 2014)

We have gravel/dirt on our barn floor. We'll put down some heavy plastic and use pallets on top of that. The pallets are just around the perimeter on the inside as we sometimes will have a bit of moisture come in the pole barn. The plastic works well as long as there are no holes. Its a cheap option but we usually use new plastic every year. We will salvage good pieces and use those to cover up small holes that may be made when we move the hay with the equipment. The boss wishes he could afford a cement floor but the barn is very large and the cost would be tremendous. Sounds like from the posts above, that cement may not always be the best option as others do well without it.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If you are near a mine, old conveyor belts are supposed to work very well. I wish I could get some.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Three of them on the bottom bundles, I use 2x6,8,10 or 4 but I try to use the largest on the bottom Sylvester.....I buy it for .20 cents or so on the dollar for culls....don't really care if its shaped like a rocking chair or is twisted, gonna flatten it shortly with 3 bundles on top. I always cut the material to 8' and move em as the hay disappears  that way they're not in my way. We use them in between bundles as well, usually only two, so that we can easily see where one bundle stops and another starts. Pays dividends when picking top bundles off.....we stack 3 high, get purty good at push tossing 2x on to the bundles (hence the reason i use the wider culls on the bottom), depends on how many boards we have, like I said, I buy em cheap so the $ ain't a problem......


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> I can't tell. Does this cement floor already exist or is it still in the planning stages? If it's still a twinkle in your eye, I agree completely about the vapor barrier under it.


Personally I wouldn't even CONSIDER a concrete floor to store hay on unless it had a good moisture barrier under it.

My grandmother had a "cheap" contractor pour a concrete front porch, sidewalk, and carport in front of her house years ago... He was too cheap to even lay down plastic drop clothes to act as a moisture barrier before he poured the concrete... In the rainy and cooler seasons, when our clay soil was well moistened, the concrete would literally pull water up and "sweat", sometimes to the point it had STANDING WATER on it! I used to use the carport as a repair area, and there were times where you'd get soaking wet on a creeper under a vehicle just from inadvertantly touching the concrete, it sweat SO badly!

When my brother decided to build his own shop behind the house, we did the concrete prep work-- hauled in fill sand, dug the footings/crossbeams under it, laid down a good black plastic moisture barrier and taped the seams, then laid in the rebar and hardware cloth reinforcement, then had a company come pour the concrete... works great and never sweats! A couple years later I put in a concrete pad tractor shed using a really big carport kit beside the old garage and did it the same way-- again, NO sweating concrete!

I can imagine how badly hay would rot sitting on concrete that sweat that bad... you'd probably lose at least the bottom row, maybe 2 rows...

Best of luck! OL JR


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I have 4 different floors to stack bundles on. Dirt, pavement, concrete and wooden in a 2 story bank barn. There is plastic under the paved barn and concrete. These 2 structures were purpose built with drainage under and around, rain gutters into drains. Some times I stack on pallets, cardboard, loose hay, plastic and most of the time I apply propionic acid to these surfaces before stacking. Sometimes these practices help, sometimes they don't. The biggest factor is having really Dry hay to start with and then it isn't much of a problem. I should say the criteria I am using to evaluate success is that you are unable to visually identify a bottom bale from any other.

I have been told to use kiln dried shavings as it will be sterile. I like that idea but it will be a little costly on a 8000 square foot floor. A friend of mine experimented with fan fold insulation with good results this season. This is interesting as the theory is it's the temperature difference causing condensation on a surface that leads to discoloration or worse. I have used this stuff on construction and it always feels warm to the touch .


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Elaborate on that "fan fold insulation"......thx


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Elaborate on that "fan fold insulation"......thx


http://m.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-1-4-in-x-4-ft-x-50-ft-R-1-Fanfold-Insulation-Sheathing-10UM/100320301


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

SVFHAY said:


> A friend of mine experimented with fan fold insulation with good results this season. This is interesting as the theory is it's the temperature difference causing condensation on a surface that leads to discoloration or worse. I have used this stuff on construction and it always feels warm to the touch .


Did he drive on it? Does he put the insulation down and then cover with hay etc? and then drive on it? Please elaborate about your friends experiment.

I have trouble with getting a musty smell on the bottom bales even though I have heavy mill plastic down with a thick layer of hay on top of that.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Another option that has been discussed on here is asphalt, a little cheaper than concrete and doesn't sweat.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Yeah, 8350 has the correct product. It would not stand up to wheel traffic so it would have to be placed and picked up as you work. It folds up nice and is smooth so dirt would slide off. It would be ripped up by a pallet forklift thus my interest in the grab. It would serve as a moisture barrier but is that a good thing? Moisture from the floor doesn't seem to be my issue.

I haven't spoke with him since September, he wanted me to try it here to duplicate the experiment. Unfortunately I didn't, not much harvest after that and it was a last in/first out situation so it wouldn't have been in place very long.

So do you guys think the condensation theory has any merit? If you were only using it as a moisture barrier I don't think it would be worth the effort. 
The insulation value may be....


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

SVFHAY said:


> Yeah, 8350 has the correct product. It would not stand up to wheel traffic so it would have to be placed and picked up as you work. It folds up nice and is smooth so dirt would slide off. It would be ripped up by a pallet forklift thus my interest in the grab. It would serve as a moisture barrier but is that a good thing? Moisture from the floor doesn't seem to be my issue.
> 
> I haven't spoke with him since September, he wanted me to try it here to duplicate the experiment. Unfortunately I didn't, not much harvest after that and it was a last in/first out situation so it wouldn't have been in place very long.
> 
> ...


I feel like in our climate you're going to need a vapor barrier AND an air gap (presumably pallets) to guarantee that the bottom layer stays good, especially if you are baling hay at the top end of allowable moisture.

On the other hand, I know there is a guy in Somerset county that sells reject foam insulation and if he happened to have any fan fold, it might be something cheap to try.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> I feel like in our climate you're going to need a vapor barrier AND an air gap (presumably pallets) to guarantee that the bottom layer stays good, especially if you are baling hay at the top end of allowable moisture.
> 
> On the other hand, I know there is a guy in Somerset county that sells reject foam insulation and if he happened to have any fan fold, it might be something cheap to try.


small world, I sit beside that guy every Sunday in church. His foam board is under the cement in my shop. Never saw any fan fold there.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

It's been a few years since I've done a lot of small squares, but I had good luck putting them down on wood.

When I was storing them in a section of my arena, I built a platform of 2x4's and 1/2" plywood sheets on top of plastic sheeting. I stacked them on edge, 14' high.

My thinking was that the plastic kept moisture from coming out of the ground, the 2x4's provided an airspace under the bales which, in turn, allowed the plywood to "breathe" moisture out.

I also had success stacking them in my haymow. My thinking is that wood breathes.

Ralph


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Got some solid plastic pallets strong enough to drive tractor and loader on to store round bales. Sounds good BUT they don't breath like wood, had spoilage on the bottom of bottom bales.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Ditto on the wood breathing and absorbing.

Regards, Mike


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

we started out using pallets over cement, for storing big squares. switching to 4x4x8s (home grown and sawn). We can take a load out of the hay barn without having to get off loader or skid steer, to move pallets. Also less freezing down in winter and no broken pallets with nails to worry about (flat tires). Usually run 3 sometimes 4 rows perpendicular to the 8 foot bales (stacked 5 high).


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

It's been my experience that wooden pallets in ground contact will wick moisture. I usually have good luck when I place a heavy mil plastic down as a vapor barrier and then stack hay on pallets. This year, I have found some plastic pallets (not the solid kind) and I am going to try those on top of plastic.

One year, I had to store some round bales outside. I put them on wooden pallets on bare ground and covered with a tarp. The wooden pallets wicked moisture - probably as bad as if I had placed the bales on the ground.

Bottom line, everyone's situation is different. Depends on a lot of factors such as water table, type of soil, layout of land, drainage, etc.


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