# Old fields overgrown with woody brush



## JD3430

I was given the opportunity to cut back a 15 acre field that was once a productive hay field. It has been out of hay production for realistically 10 years. 
The field has been invaded with what we call "Russian olive" (may be incorrect) and other typical trash like golden rod, broomsedge, winter olive, blackberry, etc. These Russian olive invasives are about 10-15' tall now. They are as much as 3-4" thick at the base and spaced ~10' apart on about a 4 acre patch of the 15 acre field. Rest of the 15 acres are light brush, weeds, grasses which are easy to mow.
Customer will pay me my asking hourly wage up to a point (I can't spend days clearing the brush, I'm guessing one full day will be his "pain tolerance"). My Woods BW180XHD was designed to cut brush up to 3.5".

The upside other than being paid to clear brush is he will let me hay them once they are cleared. The field was once productive timothy fields. I can attest to that because I remember them being hayed. Another bonus is that there is a second, 5 acre field that has been mowed annually, so the smaller field is light invasive weeds. I think it could be mulch hay next summer. Woody field is more questionable as to when it could be hayed.
The downside is the small stumps and woody brush leftover from cutting. I think it might involve ripping the small stumps out before I can take a disc cutter over it without damage. I also realize the shredded wood from the brush will be in the field and get in the hay. Not sure what to do. Thoughts include pulling my 8' York rake over the woody junk into piles at fields edge and using loader bucket to dislodge small woody stumps.

Acreage is tough to come by. 15 acres of even mulch hay is not a bad asset to have. 
However, I'm afraid of gearbox damage or other damage to mower for a small paycheck. Slightly Concerned of loader damage to dislodge small stumps. Love the thought of restoring 20 acres into a more meaningful purpose than invasive weeds. Access to fields is good and they're fairly flat. Owner seems like a good person, but overwhelmed with his greenhouse nursery business and would like someone like me to take the fields off his hands.

Any thoughts/suggestions? Sorry for long windedness


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## IHCman

I think your on the right track on cleaning up that field. I certainly think that the little stumps left after bush hogging would be a problem as would the debris that would be left over. I wouldn't be afraid to use a loader tractor to pull those 3 to 4 inch diameter trees out. In our soil they'd come out fairly easy.

Another option would be to spray the trees with a mix of 2 4 D and tordon, or chapparal. After they're dead it might take a year or two but they'll rot and be easier to push over or pull out. But I can understand if you'd rather not wait that long.


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## JD3430

That's a great point-spraying stumps.
I often wondered if there was some kind of material that could be applied to stumps to accelerate their deterioration.


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## glasswrongsize

JD3430, I concur that it can be worth the effort, provided that you can be assured that you will have the continued "rights" to the field once the clean-up is completed. Someone else might make the owner a "deal" that he can't refuse, if hay ground is that desirable in your area. I don't do contracts with any of my landlords...if their word isn't worth anything, then neither is their signature.
I did the same thing in 2012 on my newly-purchased farm. My equipment is probably a little smaller than yours. I used my Kubota 5040 with loader and a 6' bush-hog (generic name for the AC brand cutter that I used) I cratered 1 gearbox and completed with a second machine. The Kubota never scoffed at the work, but I always wondered who much life I removed from it. I ran the loader a few inches off of the ground and pushed out/over a lot of the trees before they reached the bush-hog.
I bush-hogged it in 2012 and again in 2013. The second year's cutting knocked a lot of the cut-off stumps out of the ground. It is river bottom ground and I let mother nature (flooding) remove the stumps/brush.
In 2014, I mowed and baled the field before planting corn: the "hay" that the sheep wouldn't eat, could be used for kindling. (Just needed to get the vegetation off, so that I cold turn the ground) After mowing and baling, I used a 4-disc "stump plow" AKA "disc plow" and turned the ground for the first time in years. This year was corn again. With the wet year, the corn got drowned before it ever came up. The applied nitrogen (urea) made awful nice grass. I baled again. By this year, the field was devoid of evidence that it had been overgrown just 3 short years ago.
I'll try to remember to attach some pics so you can judge for yourself...yours might be worse.
73, Mark


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## glasswrongsize

JD, forgot to mention, I am not familiar with the brush to which you refer. My trees were soft maple, sycamore, and white oak...mostly. The stumps of 3-5" diameter were pushed out with the loader and the ones that were chewed off by the bush-hog were easily dislodged the next year.

73, Mark


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## jwise87

We just spent the summer doing the same thing to 35 acres that my Aunt inherited. It had the same kind of brush on it and it took a lot of work. Russian olives aren't that bad because the roots don't go over like 6 inches in the ground, this means they can be pushed out easily with a loader. My advise is don't bush hog them. It takes way more effort to get all the pieces picked up than it does to push them out whole. We used a bush hog, a tracked front end loader, a cross cut disc, and a cultimulcher to get our fields in shape, plus walking them and picking up sticks by hand. All this work and we still will won't be able to sell the hay because of the sticks left in the field.


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## rjmoses

I would not bush hog even 2.5" green brush--I don't like tearing up equipment. Too much stress on the drive train.

You might consider getting someone with a dozer or hi-lift to push out the big stuff. It really depends on the soil, the overall average size of stuff, etc.

Ralph


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## Greasy30

I would burn the field off then go back through and remove trees then disk the field.


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## JD3430

Should have stated in original post that turning the soil is not an option. 
Any restoration must be done above ground.


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## Tim/South

This is when a grapple on a skid steer would be handy.

I agree that pushing the trees over and removing the stumps is the best move since you are going to be running hay equipment over it. Cleaning it up will take a little time and that helps the land owner to see how much work you have invested in their property.


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## 8350HiTech

Even if takes a week and you only get paid for a day, if you come out of it with 20 acres that can be hay, that doesn't sound like a bad wage for the "unpaid" days that you would be putting in. Agree on earlier points of pushing them out/over and locking in a lease.

I take it the landowner has some desire to not see the ground worked? That could be the one problem if you push out the roots. Leveling when you can't disturb the soil would seem impossible outside of filling the holes individually. Doesn't sound too feasible. You might end up haying the good acreage and having to just brush hog the area where the worst woody brush is for a few years. Then again, 15-16 acres of hay ground still wouldn't be a bad deal at all.


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## slowzuki

Lot easier dealing with a stump attached to a tree. Push it over, hook exposed edge of root ball with bucket, push and it comes out. Pop them all out and switch to forks, drive around collecting sliding the pile on the ground, they don't pick up well unless neatly stacked.

An excavator with a thumb is even faster but costs are higher. You can pop the trees out with forks but smaller ones are hard to get under the root squarely without the fork popping out.


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## rjmoses

JD3430 said:


> Should have stated in original post that turning the soil is not an option.
> Any restoration must be done above ground.


I would think this approach is going to be a problem because if you don't get the stumps and roots out at below ground level, you'll be tearing up your mower, rake and tedder(?). It will take up 5-8 years, depending on wood type, for those stumps to completely rot away.

My suggestion: do whatever you can to get that ground as clean as possible,

Ralph


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## glasswrongsize

> Lot easier dealing with a stump attached to a tree. Push it over, hook exposed edge of root ball with bucket, push and it comes out.


Sounds like slowzuki has removed his fair share of small trees with a loader. I find that works on the slightly larger ones. Running the bucket low bends the smaller ones over without pushing out the root wad. The next year that I mowed, the smaller "stumps" were the only ones left. They were not rotted, but were brittle and roots were dead enough that they dislodged from the ground by the bush-hog.
The bright news on my endeavor was the fact that it only cost me 1 rear tractor tire and the gearbox on a cutter which was mostly-junk anyway.







I used the above, while I own a small dozer (HD5) and a JD210 backhoe, because I believe that I completed the task better and quicker with the Kubota and cutter. Since I didn't use both, I cant say which would be faster/better. Problem I have with the dozer, it slices the small saplings off at ground level. The hoe works well, but for me, 20 acres of saplings seem like a daunting task. My field was maybe 5% trees 3-5 inch diameter; the majority were 1 to 1-1/2 inch range. I probably had 15-20 hours involved in the first pass.
73, Mark


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## deadmoose

As thick as glasswrongsize's pulling up is not an option. If quite a bit thinner, pulling out, shaking off, and removing may be feasible. Last year I wastched an excavator with a thumb, and it was awfully efficient, and left little mess. It also piled up a nice big pile easy to burn.

Same can be done with loader or 3 point. Just takes longer. Wrap a chain and give a pull, shake off dirt, and good to go.


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## slowzuki

There are v shaped toothed tree puller bars for the little trees. 2" and up works really well with my method.


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## deadmoose

http://www.beavervalleysupply.com/sectionb/shaver/extractor3.jpg

Like so?


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## JD3430

I think I'll try to push the olive over with the M9540 with the stouter 7' bucket I have. Then try to pop them out. As was said above, they have a shallow root system. I'm afraid mowing them might really beat up the bush hog. Have lots of mowing to do. Would rather use it on the contract cutting I have, then use it to cut the stumps. 
Good news is that only 3-5 acres has the bigger caliper Russian olive. Remaining 15 acres is just standard light brush, stickers, etc.


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## Thorim

Might try renting a Hydro-Axe but they probably are not cheap


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## Lewis Ranch

Not sure if it's an option in your area but we use a turbo saw and it's very handy for clearing thick and thin brush and I don't leave much of a stump behind. Wouldn't scare me a bit to run the hay cutter behind the saw after it's been cleaned up.


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## JD3430

I was trying to do some mental math today and see if I should consider a 1/2 day with a skid steer and a saw. Although it'll cost me the hourly rate I'm charging and then some, it will save a lot of wear and possible breakage on my equipment. 
Weighty questions to ponder....
And another reason why I need to own a skid steer....lol


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## glasswrongsize

JD, now you're talking! I'm always looking for a way to justify a new toy ( I sure as hell don't NEED a backhoe and a dozer. Hell, I owned 3 different dozers before I ever owned more than 1 acre!) I've been trying to figure out how to justify a skidsteer and an trackhoe for years...I think you're on to something. Seriously, if you can justify it, I would get it. If you can't justify it, a bucket such as this one is a wonderful attachment for removing trees without leaving a giant hole or 6' worth of dirt-gouge to remove 2" worth of tree







73, Mark


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## PaMike

-Mow all the small stuff with the bushhog to clear the ground and see where you are at.

-Mow around all the bigger stuff. Rent a mini hoe with a thumb for a day to clear the bigger stuff.

-If you dont want to spend the money on the hoe then get a grabble bucket or 4 in 1 bucket on your loader. I might even know someone in lancaster county that has a grapple and 4 in 1 that might loan it out cheap...

-Burn it all down in the spring and notill grass in. Use your head and a slower ground speed when haying on the rough ground...


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## Lewis Ranch

JD3430 said:


> I was trying to do some mental math today and see if I should consider a 1/2 day with a skid steer and a saw. Although it'll cost me the hourly rate I'm charging and then some, it will save a lot of wear and possible breakage on my equipment.
> Weighty questions to ponder....
> And another reason why I need to own a skid steer....lol


Get the check book out and go buy one, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.


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## bluefarmer

I hired a guy with one of them tree mowing/mulching heads on a skid steer. It worked WONDERFUL after he got through I had a field of wood chips, I let it dry a little and set it on fire, it burned slow and hot. Burnt stumps and all, would do it again.


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## PaMike

bluefarmer said:


> I hired a guy with one of them tree mowing/mulching heads on a skid steer. It worked WONDERFUL after he got through I had a field of wood chips, I let it dry a little and set it on fire, it burned slow and hot. Burnt stumps and all, would do it again.


Fire is out of the question in this area. Not sure you want all those chips in a hay field. Not sure if notilling through the chips would work or not.

Mulching would probably work well for pasture but a hay field, I dont know....


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## JD3430

I think I'll take my 8' York rake drag debris off to the side. 
Planned on doing biggest trees last. May push them over with loader first and see if they'll just uproot before risking equip damage. 
Can't burn or till.

Root bucket looks promising, wonder if it will put too much stress on loader? I already have one bent loader in my "operator error" resume.


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## JD3430

UPDATE:
I got started yesterday and mostly it's good. 
The Woods BW180XHD batwing has been great. I back into the trees, basically knock them over, then shred them while laying down. Most of the trees are 15' high Russian olive, spice bush, cherry, etc. I noticed at about the 3rd hour, 2 of the 3 gearbox vents began to spew a little gear oil, maybe a tablespoon each. 
I set the cutter pretty low. Only left 3 spacers on the hydraulic height stroke. Once cut, I was happy to see at least some semblance of "grass" was still growing. Customer is very happy and will fork over the 20 acres into my control for mushroom hay next spring. I suggested a light landscape raking to pull as much wood debris off the field as possible without tearing off grass. I also suggested allowing a spreading of mushroom compost on the ground once it has frozen. 
Bad: of course, a 3' long stick found its way between plastic fuel tank and transmission, ripping of a sensor on side of trans rendering tractor stationary. got part, now probably have to drop tank to install it. 
Can't wait to finish and add another 20 acres to my hay properties. 
Just got a call from neighboring property. They love the way it looks and want to meet with me. 
All in all, a pretty good couple of days. Now I just have to finish about a 1/2 acre of trees and then some light raking.....
What a great feeling- restoring 20 years of neglect back into productivity.


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## JD3430

And for a few pictures. They aren't very good. 
To the left hidden in the tree line are the railroad tracks very close to where artist NC Wyeth was tragically killed. Beyond the tracks is "Ring Farm" scene of many Wyeth paintings. 
Anyway, bush hog really did the job. That brush is 2-4" at the base. To the right you can see what it looks like after clearing. In the last picture you can see a greenhouse glass roof.


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## Thorim

Looks like the field cleaned up pretty good...


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## JD3430

Yeah I'm amazed at how much brush seems to almost disappear.


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## Lewis Ranch

Looks real good, rent a no till and seed some grass.


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## JD3430

Was wondering if my NH rotary hay rake would work cleaning up wood chips, small branches, etc. ?

Would little stumps sticking up 4" damage it?


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## PaMike

I wouldnt take a hay rake in their. Just too risky..

Also, figure on 2,4d application in the spring...some of that stuff will start growing back, some will be dead...


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## JD3430

PaMike said:


> I wouldnt take a hay rake in their. Just too risky..
> 
> Also, figure on 2,4d application in the spring...some of that stuff will start growing back, some will be dead...


Really? I've taken my rake over small stumps, etc with no issues. I'm only talking about raking up basically wood chips, small bits of brush, small branches, etc. 
I was thinking of taking it into windrows then baling it up......JUST KIDDING 
I would just drag windrows with landscape rake into woods line.

I'm really, really curious to see what comes back up... Will the woody brush try to return? How about the blackberry stickers? 
My buyer won't allow much of it. 
My gut feeling is that it will have to be mowed again in the spring and then baling might happen when second cutting season hits next summer.


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## PaMike

If its just chips and stuff you might be fine with the rake...I could just see a stick wedging it somewhere and bending something up.... I guess the rake would be faster than taking a 8 ft york rake over the entire thing...if you try it just use your head....

Some of the stuff will grow back but consistant mowing or spraying will kill them off.I have reclaimed a good bit of ground by just mowing, mowing, and more mowing. It works just takes time.

I would really consider a soil test. In this area lime is needed. Getting the PH up really helps. Grass wont thrive in real low PH. Also I would no till in grass in the spring. That will help choke out the other stuff. Late march early April drill it in. If owner lets you spread mushroom soil I would do that too. A little winter work and you will be happy in the spring!


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## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> Was wondering if my NH rotary hay rake would work cleaning up wood chips, small branches, etc. ?
> Would little stumps sticking up 4" damage it?


Over in Adams County orchard country, guys used to buy rotaries (when they were barely a blip on the hay making radar) and use them to rake the branches left behind from pruning. They did the job.


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## JD3430

PaMike said:


> If its just chips and stuff you might be fine with the rake...I could just see a stick wedging it somewhere and bending something up.... I guess the rake would be faster than taking a 8 ft york rake over the entire thing...if you try it just use your head....
> Some of the stuff will grow back but consistant mowing or spraying will kill them off.I have reclaimed a good bit of ground by just mowing, mowing, and more mowing. It works just takes time.
> I would really consider a soil test. In this area lime is needed. Getting the PH up really helps. Grass wont thrive in real low PH. Also I would no till in grass in the spring. That will help choke out the other stuff. Late march early April drill it in. If owner lets you spread mushroom soil I would do that too. A little winter work and you will be happy in the spring!


Most likely doing spent mushroom compost on the fields when they freeze.


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## JD3430

Used hay rake today. Worked very well. Fields look de-thatched.

Wish it wasnt too late to seed.


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## PaMike

Where are the pics? Learn something new every day. Never would have thought that was a good idea, let alone work well...

You could always no till in cereal rye. You can get that right now at about $12/bushel and you need about 2-2.5 bushels per acre... Cut it mid may for feed or mulch...


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## slowzuki

If they let you spray something next spring with triclopyr in it will kill off the hardwood sprouts and most broadleaf weeds or just keep cutting for mushroom hay all year and the next year the sprouts will be gone.


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## Tim/South

slowzuki said:


> If they let you spray something next spring with triclopyr in it will kill off the hardwood sprouts and most broadleaf weeds or just keep cutting for mushroom hay all year and the next year the sprouts will be gone.


Triclopyr will also get the blackberry stickers mentioned earlier. Spraying blackberry and dewberry usually works better if the plant is mature and not cut back. Needs the foliage to carry the chemical into the roots.


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## slowzuki

Yes, unless you care to go and paint it on recently cut stumps, it needs some actively growing leaves to take it up.



Tim/South said:


> Triclopyr will also get the blackberry stickers mentioned earlier. Spraying blackberry and dewberry usually works better if the plant is mature and not cut back. Needs the foliage to carry the chemical into the roots.


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## JD3430

So I did my first pass of the bigger field today with hay rake. Very effective, but still some wood chips remaining. May go over it again. I raked the clippings up in 1,000' long windrows, then took loader bucket and pushed windrows into piles, then pushed piles into woods.

Where the heaviest brush was growing, I have mostly bare dirt with a little grass left growing. Was at my dealer today and noticed he rents a Landpride food plot seeder for $50/day. 
If I have maybe 2-3 acres of essentially bare ground, would a food plot seeder do a decent job of planting new grass this spring?

I'm worried a no till drill might get damaged by the little stumps left in the ground. Also like the price and simplicity of food plot tool.


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## slowzuki

Planting grasses - how thick are you laying on the compost? May smother new seeding if on top.


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## JD3430

Compost is spread about 1" thick. It will be spread mid-late winter (jan-February)
I could wait a few months then plant seed with seed plotter in March-April.

Last year I was thinking of laying seed then covering with 1" of compost. I don't know if that would work or not.


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## PaMike

I wouldnt spread the compost over the seed. Seed will be way too deep.

I have hay good luck broadcasting seed onto worked ground. A good rain sets the seed down in the ground a bit and you are off and growing.

Whats this good plot planter look like? You have a link to the oem? Sure it isnt just a mini no till drill?

You also might find "overseeders" or slit seeders down your way. Thats the tools landscapers use. Problem is most of those things are only about 5 ft wide. Thats a slow go...


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## JD3430

Landpride food plot ranger


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## JD3430

PaMike said:


> I wouldnt spread the compost over the seed. Seed will be way too deep.
> I have hay good luck broadcasting seed onto worked ground. A good rain sets the seed down in the ground a bit and you are off and growing.
> Whats this good plot planter look like? You have a link to the oem? Sure it isnt just a mini no till drill?
> You also might find "overseeders" or slit seeders down your way. Thats the tools landscapers use. Problem is most of those things are only about 5 ft wide. Thats a slow go...


I'm not going to. I will compost first, then seed. That way I can work the compost into the seed bed surface of the ground.
I agree with you that compost on top of seed might be too thick.


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## endrow

Over the course of my life we cleaned up many areas like that now you got these little stumps and you can't plant Or mow with a diskbine . I would go old school next time you do something like that before you mow or do anything put a clevis in the drawbar your tractor take a chain and pull all the big stuff out one by one. As you're pulling them out take the bucket of your tractor and smooth that area of the best you can you'll think it's taking too long but then you can bush hog it. And you gotta ready to take farm equipment across it. 
.


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## JD3430

endrow said:


> Over the course of my life we cleaned up many areas like that now you got these little stumps and you can't plant Or mow with a diskbine . I would go old school next time you do something like that before you mow or do anything put a clevis in the drawbar your tractor take a chain and pull all the big stuff out one by one. As you're pulling them out take the bucket of your tractor and smooth that area of the best you can you'll think it's taking too long but then you can bush hog it. And you gotta ready to take farm equipment across it.
> .


I used FEL bucket to uproot some of the worst stumps. The rest are cut very low to the ground. Pretty sure discbine will clear them, but I'm going to keep "stump hunting" today to try to get more of them.

I ended up pushing over a lot of the trees at the edge of the woods and was pleasantly surprised at how easy they went over. Problem is, there were so many and so much brush along with it, I decided to mow them in the middle of the field.
Really the worst thing about mowing is the sawdust chips left behind. They soak up a lot of moisture and inhibit gass growth until they finally decay. I raked off probably 70% of the wood chips. The remaining 30% concern me a little.


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## slowzuki

I'm not familiar with mushroom compost but if similar to manure with high hay/straw and wood shavings content, its hard to get grass growing in it until it breaks down a bit, do you have a disc so you could work a bit of soil into the compost and just spin seed onto it and roll it?


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> I'm not familiar with mushroom compost but if similar to manure with high hay/straw and wood shavings content, its hard to get grass growing in it until it breaks down a bit, do you have a disc so you could work a bit of soil into the compost and just spin seed onto it and roll it?


It's actually a "secret recipe" that each mushroom compost company makes themselves. 
Usually it's hay, water & horse manure mixed together. Farmers use it around here and gardeners till it into their produce gardens.


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