# How wet is too wet of ground to plant grass hay?



## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

We've killed the hay field, and tilled it twice at 4 inches to break up the hard pan clay. Has been hay field well over 20 years by previous owner,with minimal care.

Plan to plant pure orchard grass.

Question : how dry must the soil be before planting? Boss man with no experience says powder dry, no cultipacker.

Will plant using brillion style planter with microtiller on front.

Field has baseball size clay lumps in certain areas, especially wetter ones (tractor is leaving tracks). I'm thinking to field harrow it, then pack it and clumps will level off, rain forecast this weekend. I don't think it has to be bone dry, but that's why I'm asking.

What is best to prep for planting?

I do have pics, but not sure how to add.


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

My dad's rule of thumb was if you can rock your foot back and stick your heel in it don't try to work it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

My grandpa always would pick a handful of dirt up clench it together in his hand to form a quick ball. Then open his hand and if it did not fall apart it was too wet. I do it that way to too..


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If you have clods and leaving tracks, forget it, you'll do more harm that good. Powder dry ain't no good either, near impossible to pack then and possible to plant way too deep.


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

It's just one small area that's wetter. Everything else re packs overnight on its own, so the tractor sinks maybe half an inch in the non cultipacked field.

It definitely would crumble in the hand, but he's concerned if everything's not powder it won't drag or cultipack before planting.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I would suggest looking around you. What I am implying is watch other farmers in YOUR area are doing, in MY area only the lighter ground (sandy) is even being worked up right now (preparing for soybeans or corn), the heavier ground isn't being touched (sugar beets, soybeans or corn ground). If your neighbors are working up their ground (clay soil), chances are you could be going at it too.

I don't have much clay soil, but what I do have and I work it to quick, I end up with almost concrete. 

My two cents today.

Larry


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

The big problem is, this field hasn't ever been worked. We worked another area last year and planted teff, but it had been worked 3 years in a row with sweet corn then rye, so I don't remember any big chunks.

Right now you can walk across it without leaving any prints, but there are areas with baseball size clumps of solid, dry clay. Field harrow doesn't seem to be splitting them, although a third pass with tiller might.

If the field is de entry dry, but has large chunks of solid clay, will a cultipacker level it smooth enough to plant grass?

He's thinking he needs a harkey rake, or a cultipacker with teeth. We have a tiller, a field drag and a cultipacker at the moment.


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

Clump photos from yesterday. One shows wetter clumps, other is dryer clumps. The large clay chunks are dry but not crumbly.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

zandstrafarms said:


> Clump photos from yesterday. One shows wetter clumps, other is dryer clumps. The large clay chunks are dry but not crumbly.


Are the clumps by any chance what I would call 'root balls'?

Grass (especially Orchard grass), leaves balls like that in MY area, that's why I no till. IMHO, if you are going to work ground up and plant a hay field I would plant soybeans or wheat the year before, giving the root balls time to deteriorate. You can plant behind corn, but there is a lot more plant material to work with.

Larry


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

My experience has been that in that clumpy of ground you won't get good seed germination with grass, and mostly what will grow will be regrowth of what was in the field before and weeds. Good soil to seed contact is important for small seed germination, and in order to achieve that you need a finely tilled seed bed. If that were my field, and I didn't think I could get it much better than that, I would probably plant oats (or some other annual) for a year to give the root clods a chance to decompose. It seams like a waste of time and resources to loose a year like that, but the hay quality will be a lot better. Just my 2 cents as well. Have fun playing in the sandbox.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The cultipacker should work if dry.If its to wet it will stick to the rollers.It doesnt need to be bone dry through the entire lump.Hook on to it and go 50' you will know if it is working or not!

Fall tillage is better to break up the lumps of clay type soils in the north.The freeze thaw cycles over winter mellows the soil.To late for that but keep it in mind!

Or like Idaho Hay said rotate with another crop would help and give sod time to break down also


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

I woyld agree on the planting cover crop thoughts. Should have done it last year but the boss refused to let me work the field.

Now this spring we have no choice as we have to show income on our taxes or face an audit.

Plus we need the hay for our horses, and no one out here grows quality horse hay.

So I can't cultipack it well enough to run over with a brillion and get good seed contact?? 

Some parts today are nice and loose, but the clay clumps are still heavy in some areas.

****clumps are now solid clay. All sod has been tilled under, but the clay lumps are the worrisome issue.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

zandstrafarms said:


> Now this spring we have no choice as we have to show income on our taxes or face an audit.


Orchard grass takes some time to establish. Unless you're irrigating it, you won't get much, if any, yield off it the first year. At least that's how it works in North Idaho. If you're looking for some revenue and hay off it this year, you may want to consider planting an annual forage crop, then plant you're orchard grass next year in a much cleaner seed bed.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Plant teff then call plant the orchard grass.just my opinion.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Swv.farmer said:


> Plant teff then call plant the orchard grass.just my opinion.


There is an idea, then you could plant orchard grass this fall (better time to plant IMHO).

Larry


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

Idaho Hay said:


> Orchard grass takes some time to establish. Unless you're irrigating it, you won't get much, if any, yield off it the first year. At least that's how it works in North Idaho. If you're looking for some revenue and hay off it this year, you may want to consider planting an annual forage crop, then plant you're orchard grass next year in a much cleaner seed bed.


The seed is coated, so hopefully that will help with germination. But we didn't throw all our eggs in one basket, I'm also doing a smaller field of smooth brome (slow to establish ) and another small field of natural/wild grasses we will fertilize the crap out of to get a good first cutting, then kill that off and replant in the fall.

FIELD UPDATE : I began dragging it with field cultivator, but didn't help much so I went back to tiller for just top 2 inches. Made a huge difference! Tried packing it, dry enough, but might need to hook it by 3pt to pack well enough. Pulling with UTV didn't pack much.

Anyone ever use a basket tedder? Boss man says it will smash out all lumps into powder.

Thoughts on it?


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## youngbaler (Apr 9, 2015)

My dad has a rule of thumb for planting corn.

ApRiley 15 to may 15: grab a hand full of dirt make a ball, throw it at the tractor rim, if it sticks to the rim it's too wet.

After may 15: grab a handful of dirt make a ball, drop it, if it hits the ground plant.


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## Cmm (Jun 5, 2016)

If your tractor tire has mud on it as you roll it's too wet

You want to catch it when you drive across it you barely get any mud/residue on your tire

Then let her eat


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Another way to deal with root clumps, take you last cutting late summer then let regrow a bit then burn it down with roundup, come spring it will be some of the mellowest ground you'll find.


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## chengchaobo (Apr 20, 2017)

Assessing moisture before baling depends on whether it is stem moisture or moisture from dew. The moisture present from dew will seep through the hay to some degree, while stem moisture will not. 
When the stem moisture is too high, spoilage can occur. Moisture at baling for large square bales should be no greater than 12 to 15 percent.The exception to this rule is when hay preservative is applied during baling, which allows hay to be baled with moisture content up to 30 percent.
To reduce leaf shatter and resulting nutrient losses, avoid baling when hay moisture is too low.


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