# hay irrigation economics ?



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Please forgive this eastern boy and his silly quesions. I am on vacation in Idaho and am completely blown away by scale and quality of alfalfa products.

I have been told it costs $1000 @ acre to install center piviots, and have no idea what the deal is with the rolling pipe on stage coach wheels or the stationary lines. I am sure it costs alot to maintain and pump that volume as well.

As far as I can tell they are running here (6000' elevation, Driggs, Idaho)a lot of the time. Right down the road they ran all day on oats maybe two weeks from ripe. Man, ours back in Pa. was cut before the first of Aug at 2500'. Orchard grass field getting it to right next to a pasture that is green without water.

I haven't seen more than a few dairies on the trip north from salt lake and a few stacks from last year and nearly all 4x bales. So where is the market? Why not irragate only at night when loss would be less? Is it a matter of a water allotment and if you don't use it you lose it? I have only seen center piviots on flat country before but saw a lot of rolling country under irrigation as well, how steep can it be done on?

We drove through the wheat harvest also. Lots of combines and 4x bales. As we got farther north the straw was chopped. To far from markets?

I would ask a local but we passed a billboard at Idaho falls that said "Tourists, don't laugh at locals" so maybe a little sensitve.

Thanks, Kelly


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## Cannon (Aug 18, 2009)

yes a center pivot is expensive to put in. with pipelines, pumps, ponds (if needed) they are about $80K for a standard quarter pivot. The other sprinkler you described is a side roll. It sprinkles then you shut it off, go to the center where a drive motor is and the whole pipe turns and move how ever far you need it to. shut motor off, hook back up to water line and start sprinkling.

The reason we run sprinklers 24 hours is to get all your ground wet, (yes you will loose more to evaporation in the day. they have drop nozzles and large water droplets nozzles to help that) If you don't run it the ground will be dry before your sprinkler gets back around.

Yes our life out west with irrigation is a lot different then yours back east with the rainfall. both have there good and bad points. As far as the stacks that you see it will get feed, don't worry about that. We just don't need to keep it inside a tight shed for storage like you do back east. Out here a lot of hay is just caped with straw, or tarped, or in a shed that is no more than a roof. A lot of hay is just stored outside uncovered, cow hay, grinder hay.

Straw. yes it could be to far to market to sell, farmer may have wanted it to put back in the ground for fert. Maybe the farmer did not want to sell it at all. It depends also if it was irrigated or dryland wheat.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Cannon said:


> Yes our life out west with irrigation is a lot different then yours back east with the rainfall. both have there good and bad points.


Our farm is out of town about three miles and on the clay, while in town is sand. Everything in town is no-tilled, what isn't has pivots, the folks who don't have pivots but still work that sand, usually are lucky to get the same yields we were getting 30 years ago.

Anyways, home farm is pattern tiled on 35' centers, still gets too wet sometimes to get anything done in a timely manner. If I was to ever buy anymore ground, it would be in town on the sand as water can always be added, but it can only be got rid of so fast.

I've seen two fields that haven't been made yet this year as it's been so wet, either they couldn't get to em in the small windows we had, or they were too wet to be driving on.

I imagine with the need for irrigation out west, being delayed cutting for a month because of rain is unheard of.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

As you have observed adaptations to another climate and soil combination can be interesting. 
It is safe to assume that much of the land you were looking at might require 100 acres to carry one animal unit for a year. To raise a garden for your household requires supplemental watering.

A fellow I knew in the Air Force married an Arizona Indian Lady. His standing story was they got married in the year of the Lizard. Then he would elaborate, every year is a year of the lizard for the Pima Indians. I would suggest that before the Europeans wandered into much of Idaho roots, cactus parts, seeds and anything that moved could be found on the menu.

If Indian Corn or any other indigenous crops were grown they would have been watered.

Investing in a means to water introduced crops increases the value of that land and provides a means to support a higher population density.

I would suggest that the investment in time energy and assets are not so great that 8 tons/A, 180 RFV, alfalfa is an attractive proposition. That it is economical to grow potatoes, sugar beets, and corn for silage.

If you think about it irrigation is not that uncommon Back East where it rains. They irrigate in Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, plus the Carolinas. In their case the added cost of irrigation is offset by enough better yields to more than pay for the added expense and labor.

Lord only knows what the cost is to capture perfectly good soil moisture and send it down to the Gulf of Mexico, rather than watering the crops. (-









Oh by the way I am not an irrigation framer, but that is not by choice.

Enjoy your visit.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Even with our 40 inches of rain a year here, the ground in town is still irrigated. Most of it is in green beans, seed corn, or cucumbers. A lot of it gets rented to the seed corn or veggie guys for several years, then the owner might go a rotation of corn/beans then it gets rented back to the seed corn/veggie guys again. The non-irrigated stuff gets hay on most of it, the rest is notilled to corn/soybeans.

Thing is here unless we are in a drought, rarely does that ground in town rely on all of its water from irrigation.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. It seems like an easy decision to irrigate when your in an arid climate. It just takes a little $. The ones back east always ran for a shorter time period, which I guess only makes sense, and once installed pumping and maintaining is just a part of the deal.

It sounds like the guys running irrigation in the climates that are are wetter are the ones who have to crunch the numbers pretty hard to see if it pays off.

Wilson, year of the lizard? I should have asked my wife's kin what year it was, must have been a good one though.

Saw more beautiful farming country today. I could not compete with these guys if the freight to the east was cheap.

Thanks again, Kelly


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

We spend all our time and money trying to dry it and they spend it trying to get it wet. I'm not sure which costs more. Actually, I'm pretty sure it costs more to dry it and keep it dry.

$10/ton to condition with a $40,000 Macerator
$5/ton to tedd with a $30,000 tedder
working with thin alfalfa stands because stout ones won't cure
$200,000 for storage sheds


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## dbergh (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi Kelly,
Glad you're enjoying Idaho!

A 120 acre pivot starts at $60K and goes up from there depending on what you want in it. Pumps and mainline could cost you that much again so $1000 an acre is not too far off. The real expense is in the pumping cost for some of the high lift areas-as much as $300 an acre each year. Add in O & M and the cost can really get up there. On the plus side we can control how much and when we apply moisture which makes putting up quality hay much easier. Our average annual rainfall is only 12 inches and that mostly arrives in the form of snow in the winter time. We can go 90 days with no measurable precip during the growing season many years. 
Systems capacities are such that they have to run 24/7 to keep up with the ET loss during the season. Running only at night would be nice but we would get too far behind the curve on soil moisture.
Pivots can be run on some fairly steep ground if you have sandy soil. It's all about the percolation rate of your ground.

Much of the hay and virtually all of the straw goes for dairy, with a few large feed lots across the area taking some as well. Idaho ranks 4th in the nation in terms of # of dairy cows now. Most of the dairies are west of Driggs in the central and western areas of the state. A fair amount of the hay also goes out to the west coast to be shipped overseas as cubes or press hay. Most of the dairies require big square bales-4X4 and now more 3X4's also.
We are in an ideal location for growing and putting up quality hay. Long hot days for growing and cool nights for baling with a bit of dew and virtually no rain during the season (most years!). 
Freight is an issue unfortunately.
As far as the billboard-don't worry! Ag folks are the same all over the country, open and friendly in my experience.
Dave.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

The economics of retail/export/racetrack hay are much better than alfalfa as well. The arid climate is the key to great hay, and irrigation is a given. Power costs are also much cheaper out West typically and so is the land itself, those are all factors. Controlling an irrigation schedule with center pivots is a real asset and the ability to irrigate marginal ground that is too steep or sandy for flood is another benefit.

Freight is a big cost but one that is passed on to the consumer, much of the top quality hay is actually marketed on the East Coast.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the additional information. Back home now where we are enjoying a really nice run of weather. Lay it out on a swath and next day rake with the dew and bale. Never do that in september here.

In regards to Idaho hay in the east, we see a lot of it here in PA-VA-Del. At one of my best Va. retail customers they have a sample shipment of 3 tie Standlee 110 lb. alf @$29.95 a bale. The manager said suggested retail was $35.99 to 39. My 54 lb. timothy 1st cut retails at 7 and 2nd cut mix at 9 at the same store.

Here at my local tsc store they got shipment of the 50lb. compressed standllee bales in both tim and alf @ $10.99. This is not a high brow horsey area. I asked how it was selling and they said great. Okay, whatever. A few months pass and the last time I was there it was marked down to $4 even and it was displayed cut open in a feeder to prove how much was in the bale. Somebody ate a bunch of freight.

Tough to change attitudes in the marketplace. Some will do the math and compare ton/lb./ bale and some just walk away.

Kelly


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

SVFHAY said:


> In regards to Idaho hay in the east, we see a lot of it here in PA-VA-Del. At one of my best Va. retail customers they have a sample shipment of 3 tie Standlee 110 lb. alf @$29.95 a bale. The manager said suggested retail was $35.99 to 39. My 54 lb. timothy 1st cut retails at 7 and 2nd cut mix at 9 at the same store.
> 
> Here at my local tsc store they got shipment of the 50lb. compressed standllee bales in both tim and alf @ $10.99. This is not a high brow horsey area. I asked how it was selling and they said great. Okay, whatever. A few months pass and the last time I was there it was marked down to $4 even and it was displayed cut open in a feeder to prove how much was in the bale. Somebody ate a bunch of freight.
> 
> ...


$30/bale for straight alfalfa!!??!! Wow, that is impressive. Never knew what the retail price was on some of the hay that gets out there. I'm guessing they paid around $5 to $6 for that hay.

I would expect to hear that price range for premium 3-string Timothy, that is the highest priced product and the blended/compressed bales are almost always #2 grade hay. If it doesn't come in a 3 string bale you know it never started out in one


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