# Orchard grass seeding rate



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

It seems like the recommended seeding rate for orchard grass varies widely. Some university publications and seed companies only recommend 8-12 pounds per acre while others recommend 15-20. That is a huge difference in seeding rates. Those recommendations are all for a pure stand using uncoated seed. I wanted to see what seeding rate everyone on haytalk uses?

Hayden


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I wonder if the reason those variations in planting rate by pound exist because the seeds per pound are not the same on all different varieties of Orchard Grass.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I go 18-20 lbs/ac because I want a real thick stand to start with when I seed in August. I fugure that if I don't get enough rain Aug. to Oct., or if the weather works against me over the winter and I have a significant winter kill, the extra seed will compensate for the losses in the stand.

I figure it is cheaper to plant extra seed than spend the time and effort of preparing the ground and planting a second time. It's just a cheap insurance policy against things like poor weather, hard winter, etc.

Ralph


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I don't know nothin' about nothin'....

However, I've been broadcasting some timothy and reading seeding rates too - big difference between recommendation and various forum responses as to individual user rates.

For a broadcast spreader (and I know are using a drill), just the variability of pattern - especially as light/small as timothy IMHO demands a heavier application and if time permits, criss-crossing the broadcast spread.

For a drill, IMHO - the limit on seed is - how much do you want to dump in a single row? I don't see any advantage of putting down an extreme amount of seed where it's piled-up in the row being drilled. Heck - the row to row spacing might be 7 inches, so I don't see the advantage of planting seed in the drilled row on top of the next seed.

Having said that, I would recommend (if time permits) criss-cross drilling to fill in perpendicular to the rows. On our drilled timothy, I did not like cutting the hay and seeing the path of grass drilled and open space between them due to drill spacing with all manner of weeds/undesirables taking up residence there.

Also - IMHO, if you seed to thick, your stand will suffer as what you are seeding will compete with each other. OTOH - maybe if you seed it thick and pour on the fertilizer to meet the nutritional needs, could a huge yield be in the making... 

YMMV

Bill


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I sow no less than 15 pounds to the acre. I do sow 20 pounds on occasion, but I am not sure if it is worth the difference in price here. I feel like here if you properly prepare your ground that 15#/acre is perfectly sufficient. I am talking about tillage sowing.

If I were to no-till drill a single variety of grass I probably would always go with 20 pounds per acre because of the row separation in seeding.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

endrow said:


> I wonder if the reason those variations in planting rate by pound exist because the seeds per pound are not the same on all different varieties of Orchard Grass.


 Wouldn't think so because the seed companies are recommending the same seeding rate for multiple different varieties. Just different companies as well as different university pluplications recommend different rates. I bought two different varieties of orchard both from the same company.....one has 600,000 seed per pound and the other 400,000 but yet their seeding recommendation is the same for both varieties.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> I sow no less than 15 pounds to the acre. I do sow 20 pounds on occasion, but I am not sure if it is worth the difference in price here. I feel like here if you properly prepare your ground that 15#/acre is perfectly sufficient. I am talking about tillage sowing.
> 
> If I were to no-till drill a single variety of grass I probably would always go with 20 pounds per acre because of the row separation in seeding.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 I'm actually starting to think the opposite of that is true. Now my experience is with alfalfa and Timothy but I wouldn't think orchard would be any different. When I have planted with my Brillion seeder I feel I can use a higher seeding rate and end up with a thicker stand since your covering the entire surface of the soil. But when I have used the same seeding rate with my JD drill it seems like there is just too much competition between the plants in the row and the higher seeding rate is not beneficial. I have started reducing the seeding rate when planting with the drill.

I'm starting to do most all of my planting with the drill. I like the solid stand with the Brillion better than the rows with the drill but my ground is much too rolling to risk working it up to plant. I have one last place that needs worked up this fall to get it smooth enough to notill from here on out. After that I'm probably to be selling the Brillion.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> I'm actually starting to think the opposite of that is true. Now my experience is with alfalfa and Timothy but I wouldn't think orchard would be any different. When I have planted with my Brillion seeder I feel I can use a higher seeding rate and end up with a thicker stand since your covering the entire surface of the soil. But when I have used the same seeding rate with my JD drill it seems like there is just too much competition between the plants in the row and the higher seeding rate is not beneficial. I have started reducing the seeding rate when planting with the drill.
> 
> I'm starting to do most all of my planting with the drill. I like the solid stand with the Brillion better than the rows with the drill but my ground is much too rolling to risk working it up to plant. I have one last place that needs worked up this fall to get it smooth enough to notill from here on out. After that I'm probably to be selling the Brillion.


No doubt that the no-till will reap benefits on hilly rolling ground. I don't work the hills up either and plant....or try not to usually. I think if you have your soil amendments up to snuff and receive normal rainfall that you would be fine no-tilling 20 pounds to the acre....but if you were short on P or K or rainfall then you could have some competition within the row.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hayden, I am doing all no till now, like the conventional till seeding better but can't deal with the rock picking which takes days on a ten ac field. I am using a GP1007 and go up and back on essentially the same track, trying to get in the middle of the spacing on the second run. It's not perfect but my fields don't give me the luxury of cross seeding that much without lots of backing up etc. My target is 25# so i am trying for 12 or so per pass plus the ends. I find that for the most part, going up and back on the same track solves the dip problem or hump and on or the other pass gets the seed in. That said, we will see in the next two weeks if the first rain drops in 30 days that came yesterday saved my Sept 8 seeding. Lots of the field are doing fine from heavy dew but the other stuff that was probably on top of the ground (just guessing) did not have enough moisture to germinate so still waiting.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> I'm actually starting to think the opposite of that is true. Now my experience is with alfalfa and Timothy but I wouldn't think orchard would be any different. When I have planted with my Brillion seeder I feel I can use a higher seeding rate and end up with a thicker stand since your covering the entire surface of the soil. But when I have used the same seeding rate with my JD drill it seems like there is just too much competition between the plants in the row and the higher seeding rate is not beneficial. I have started reducing the seeding rate when planting with the drill.
> I'm starting to do most all of my planting with the drill. I like the solid stand with the Brillion better than the rows with the drill but my ground is much too rolling to risk working it up to plant. I have one last place that needs worked up this fall to get it smooth enough to notill from here on out. After that I'm probably to be selling the Brillion.


When you say working up your ground, does that mean moldboard plowing?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> When you say working up your ground, does that mean moldboard plowing?


 No, I will probably cut it with a heavy offset disc to try to work some of the humps down. Then work it to death with a regular disc before running the cultimulcher. Wish I had a field cultivator I could use rather than the disc. If I can get it level and smooth then it will be notill from here on out. My ground is just too highly erodible to do any kind of tillage.....but I have to get it smooth first.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> No, I will probably cut it with a heavy offset disc to try to work some of the humps down. Then work it to death with a regular disc before running the cultimulcher. Wish I had a field cultivator I could use rather than the disc. If I can get it level and smooth then it will be notill from here on out. My ground is just too highly erodible to do any kind of tillage.....but I have to get it smooth first.


Timely mention of field cultivator. I bought a 7ft spring tooth field cultivator at an auction about a month ago. I was the high bidder in more ways than one...

I used it this past week prior to the rain on a rolling patch on top of a hill on our farm. Went down about 3 inches; first time using it. To evade erosion, I ran perpendicular to the slopes as I encountered them. Also, the cultivator tines are about 13 inches apart and left much of the existing sod to hold the ground from erosion. The goal was not to plow the ground, but to expose/fracture ground for the broadcasted seed to find a landing spot. We don't moldboard as we are the Saudi Arabia of rocks. I disked a field last year to scratch it up, but it was hard on the disc and required repeated passes. Didn't know what to expect of this field cultivator, but it worked like a champ. Designed for the job, one pass and done. When finished, I ran a disc to smooth it out, broadcast my Timothy seed and cultipacked it down. I feel really good about the seeding job and results I'll get. Labor intensive vs a drill, but I have to work with what equipment I've got. This round of Timothy, I don't know how it could have been planted more thoroughly on this land. YMMV


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## valleyforage (Apr 28, 2015)

I normally go with 12lbs one way and 12lbs crossed with no till. Orchard seed is expensive but so is all the prep work leading up to drilling.


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