# When to fertilize a field



## rjbaustian

So I've heard to fertilize after the 1st cutting, and then I was told to wait till the fall. That's the best? It's new seeding if that matters


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## brandenburgcattle42

We do it after second and fourth but sometime it when u have time its been a crazy year for us to get anything fertilized after first did you fertilize before you seeded. If you did some of that build up is working into the ground. I have 30 acres of new seeded alf. Planted last august and won't fert till after second cut got 2.3tn/acre first cut and gonna be close to 2 tn for second gonna put 5 tn of removal on. It also depends if ur field had pretty good fert from the start cause if it was really poor you can't fix that over night so more applications more often may be a good thing good luck.


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## gradyjohn

Don't know about the big A but on Coastal it is after every cut right before a rain ... yeah right!


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## Vol

On cool season grasses(Fescues, TImothies, Orchard Grasses), I like to do split applications of Nitrogen in the early fall and early spring....50 pounds of Nitrogen at each application....I add the Phosphorous and Potassium whenever I need it.

Regards, Mike


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## terraceridge

rjbaustian said:


> So I've heard to fertilize after the 1st cutting, and then I was told to wait till the fall. That's the best? It's new seeding if that matters


What are you growing?


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## rjbaustian

70% alfalfa 30% orchard grass, or somewhere close to that


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## rjbaustian

Mike I don't think I need nitrogen because of the alfalfa, but I know i need lots of potash


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## FarmerCline

Vol said:


> On cool season grasses(Fescues, TImothies, Orchard Grasses), I like to do split applications of Nitrogen in the early fall and early spring....50 pounds of Nitrogen at each application....I add the Phosphorous and Potassium whenever I need it.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 Do you apply your fall application before your 2nd cutting to increase the yield or after you have finished cutting for the year?


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## Vol

Right after 2nd cutting....or shortly thereafter if it is droughty. I like to know moisture is coming soon. I have tried putting nitrogen down right after first cutting but the response was just ok(think it might be the heat). Plants really develop in October when cooling off and seem to go into the winter with nice color and thickness and then I am not bothered with henbit and other early season weeds come spring....due to the thick stand.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

rjbaustian said:


> Mike I don't think I need nitrogen because of the alfalfa, but I know i need lots of potash


Yes, alfalfa does love that K.....and its expensive.

Regards, Mike


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## gradyjohn

rjbaustian said:


> Mike I don't think I need nitrogen because of the alfalfa, but I know i need lots of potash


Even Alfalfa can use a little nitrogen. Maybe not as much as other crops but some.


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## rjbaustian

So I'm wondering if I should hold off till fall then. However, it's forecast for highs in the 70's this week and lowv80's next. So maybe it would benefit since it was not so hot


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## Vol

rjbaustian said:


> So I'm wondering if I should hold off till fall then. However, it's forecast for highs in the 70's this week and lowv80's next. So maybe it would benefit since it was not so hot


Probably would benefit with those nice temps.

Regards, Mike.


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## rjbaustian

Yeah, I've got the local agronomist coming tomorrow. Going to see if its full of water grass or just young orchard grass. And talk about a plan of attack either way. Going to toss some potash on either way this week.


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## hay wilson in TX

Grass - Alfalfa mix. It is a quandary.

If you manage for the alfalfa ( no nitrogen) the grass will decline, If you manage for the grass ( supplu mitrogen ) the alfalfa will not compete with the grass.

I believe you will find that alfalfa is a great source for nitrogen, it just will not supply enough for the grass also..
Put enough nitrogen on for the grass and the alfalfa will use it before it gets much nitrogen from the rhizobia. 
If you wish to feed 50% grass & 50% alfalfa, plant one field of each, 
Now if you plan to graze all your forages then plant a mix of many kinds of grass and a number of legumes and allow the various species interact.


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## rjmoses

I've been experimenting a little with mowing height on a orchardgrass-alfalfa mix field on one 5 ac. field this year.

My thoughts are:

--To encourage more alfalfa, less grass, mow shorter (3")--hurts the OG more, encourages alfalfa regrowth.

--To encourage more grass, less alfalfa, mow taller (5")--hurts regrowth on alfalfa, allows the OG to recover faster, crowd out the alfalfa.

Year's not over yet, but this field has produced 4.5 tons/ac so far this year. Baled 6 tons off it yesterday.

Just thinking....

Ralph


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## vhaby

Fertilizing alfalfa with nitrogen appears to be uneconomical.. Nitrogen applied to alfalfa over seeded into Coastal bermudagrass mainly benefited the bermudagrass yield.

"""""This site changes links (that's hyy they go dead after a few days), so here is how to find articles

http://overton.tamu.edu
Then click on "AgriLife Article Search"; "Keyword"; "Alfalfa"; 
and then scroll down to the 10th bulleted article for the first link
Alfalfa interseeded into Coastal Bermudagrass II. Effect of Nitrogen Rate. 1992.
and the second link comes from the 11th bulleted article
Alfalfa Interseeded into Coastal Bermudagrass. II. Effect of Nitrogen Rate on Forage Production. 1994."""""""""

The above web site appears to not connect. Try this one that provides three years of data on adding nitrogen fertilizer to a stand of alfalfa overseeded into a stand of Coastal Bermudagrass. Note how the bermudagrass stand declined over the three years despite being fertilized with nitrogen at the rates indicated in the graphs before the first spring growth and after each cutting.


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## somedevildawg

vhaby said:


> Fertilizing alfalfa with nitrogen appears to be uneconomical.. Nitrogen applied to alfalfa over seeded into Coastal bermudagrass mainly benefited the bermudagrass yield.
> 
> https://articlesearchdatabase.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/viewpdf_458_72994.pdf?CFID=813408&CFTOKEN=7aa951ae1b1359d3-CF719FD9-05D0-9525-502C09CB7C9EF9A8&jsessionid=e4305591e2f23b32cc2d23511b741454251c


Tats exactly what they told us in our planting seminar for southern alfalfa, we should put down 50units of N (I think) during July and August because the alfalfa wouldn't provide enough for the Bermuda.....this was for Bermuda grass interlaced with 25# of alfalfa to acre....


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## vhaby

There appears to be some misunderstanding about legumes, whether they be alfalfa or clovers, and the nitrogen these legumes provide to a companion grass. There is very little direct transfer of nitrogen from the legume to the grass in a companion crop system unless the legume is grazed or until the legume vegetation decomposes to release its nitrogen to the soil to be taken up by the grass.


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## Hugh

Here in Montana an agronomist told me alfalfa will become "lazy" if N is applied. The reasoning is that the microbial activity that fixes N will decline and he alfalfa will become dependent on applications of more N, sort of like welfare. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know studies have shown that P is very, very important, and that K will give you yield but cut feed quality if over done. With K, you can have high yield or high quality depending on what you want. There is a market here in the west for low K alfalfa, it is considered superior to high K alfalfa - by some people. A soil or tissue test is very cheap in the long run.


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## somedevildawg

Hugh said:


> Here in Montana an agronomist told me alfalfa will become "lazy" if N is applied. The reasoning is that the microbial activity that fixes N will decline and he alfalfa will become dependent on applications of more N, sort of like welfare. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know studies have shown that P is very, very important, and that K will give you yield but cut feed quality if over done. With K, you can have high yield or high quality depending on what you want. There is a market here in the west for low K alfalfa, it is considered superior to high K alfalfa - by some people. A soil or tissue test is very cheap in the long run.


Wow, I've never heard of that....unbelievable, low k alfalfa, talk about walking the line, glad I grow grass.....


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## vhaby

Hugh said:


> Here in Montana an agronomist told me alfalfa will become "lazy" if N is applied. The reasoning is that the microbial activity that fixes N will decline and he alfalfa will become dependent on applications of more N, sort of like welfare. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know studies have shown that P is very, very important, and that K will give you yield but cut feed quality if over done. With K, you can have high yield or high quality depending on what you want. There is a market here in the west for low K alfalfa, it is considered superior to high K alfalfa - by some people. A soil or tissue test is very cheap in the long run.


Regarding K in Montana alfalfa hay, many soils in Montana are reported to contain adequate K, so there may not be a choice except to produce alfalfa hay that contains "high K." Additionally, and this has not been proven for alfalfa, there is the possibility that applying potash (potassium chloride referred to as K2O in fertilizer) will produce a response in alfalfa yield, not because of increased availability of K, but because of disease suppression by the chloride in the potash.

Chloride in applied potash has increased barley yield by suppressing dryland common root rot in the barley plants in southcentral Montana.


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## Hugh

I have an apple orchard here with 1500 trees and soil tests show a lack of K in all tests. (this was true prior to planting the trees)

Research has shown that adding K to soils while growing alfalfa, *even when the soils are deficient in K*, does not improve the quality of alfalfa. The yield will improve, but the feed quality will not. High K alfalfa when fed to cows contributes to "milk fever." Also, alfalfa will "luxury consume" K without an increase in yield. This is to say excess K will be taken up by the plants with no yield increase. Best to think in terms of "minimum K" to achieve desired yields and no more. My take on it...


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