# For all you haulers!



## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

I am buying a round Baler, I plan on selling round bales and producing for my own live stock. As for moving tons of hay which size Bale allows you to move the most weight. 4x4, 5x4,5x6, 4x6?????


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_5x6 but you will be hanging over edge of trailer.Some places that is a issue.Here it isn't much of a problem._

_Whaats your market for hay?HERE it's mostly by the ton so bigger the better,less bales to handle.Some places by the bale and they don't pay any more for a larger bale or maybe they can't handle them?So then smaller bales may be better._


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Market in Pa is a mix,smaller operations pay by the bale, Larger operations by the Ton, few large operations in Pa when compared to other states. I would prefer to sell by the ton, and I would prefer to make less bales in the field, not to mention for my own personal use 5x6 is great. My fear is getting stuck with Tons of hay because I can't ship or find anyone to ship for me because of round bale size. Since I am primarily focused on ranching, making forage is primarily for my feed concerns, and secondary as a source of revenue. Ultimetly I am lost in the hardest decision in forage there is, "Large square or Large Round". I really would prefer large round because I am not knowledgeable about the Large square, costs, equipment, market, ect. The Meninites do the large square in my area". Ultimetly efficiency is my number one motivator, and on thing in my mind is how you can drop round bales with the right trailer and no tractor, like the squares need (squeezer). I will be a one man show and I like that option.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Also, forgot to add this, Feed central recomends a 4x4 round Bale and not a 4x5.... Lot of conflicting information out there.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Bale what the majority of your buyers will want.
I seldom have extra hay so sell only to a few long time customers.
With the newer round balers you can pack a lot of weight into a 4x5 bale, some claim up to 1200 lbs.
East of the Mississippi it seems the 4x5 is the most common.
Also, there is 56% less hay in a 4x4 than a 4x5.
I have known locals who make some 4x4 rolls and sell them for $5 less than a 4x5. Mostly horse customers who do not want a larger bale out in the weather as long. Some ladies also prefer a 4x4 because they can handle them better.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Tim and Swmnhay,
You have given me a lot to consider, I think what I also need to do, is when I go back home to Pa. is speak to some local big rig haulers and get there perspective on the market in western Pa and eastern Ohio, and what they prefer on there big rigs. Selling a bale here and a bale there for someone with one or two horses is not effecient unless they are picking up the bales. We have mushroom mines in Pa who use a lot of Hay, so I can always sell to them. I am going to see if I can attach this PDF file to see what you Hay Masters think of feed central's recomendation.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

donald.kimball said:


> Thanks Tim and Swmnhay,
> You have given me a lot to consider, I think what I also need to do, is when I go back home to Pa. is speak to some local big rig haulers and get there perspective on the market in western Pa and eastern Ohio, and what they prefer on there big rigs. Selling a bale here and a bale there for someone with one or two horses is not effecient unless they are picking up the bales. We have mushroom mines in Pa who use a lot of Hay, so I can always sell to them. I am going to see if I can attach this PDF file to see what you Hay Masters think of feed central's recomendation.


The fact sheat is in Metric so kind of hard to compare.They were using 45' tralers,HERE most hay haulers using semis will use 53' trailers.Here with 53' trailers and 5x6 rd bales you can get maximum legal wieght on with rds.

Here 5 x 6 rds are most common.Then 3x3 or 2x3 x 8 lg sqrs.Sm sqrs and 4x4x8 lg sqrs are almost None.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Here in eastern PA the big boys make large squares for the mushroom industry. They seem to like it more because it can be stacked with stability. You may want to consider contacting them and seeing if transporting your hay 300 miles east is not your best marketing strategy. You wouldn't believe how much hay gets brought into this area.
Donald, does your tractor have enough lift capability for a 4x6 round bale? Thay can get pretty heavy. I do 4x5 round for cows and small squares for local horse crowd.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I do not deliver one or two bales. In fact I do not sell one or two bales at a time unless they pick it up in the field.
I still square bale a few for repeat long time customers and they pick it up in the field.

Years ago we would sell small amounts of hay out of the barn to locals. I no longer am as trusting and do not like people on my place looking around. That is why I sell either in the field, or to one man who buys all the extra.

If I was going to mainly ship hay then I would probably buy a large square baler.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Here in eastern PA the big boys make large squares for the mushroom industry. They seem to like it more because it can be stacked with stability. You may want to consider contacting them and seeing if transporting your hay 300 miles east is not your best marketing strategy. You wouldn't believe how much hay gets brought into this area.
> Donald, does your tractor have enough lift capability for a 4x6 round bale? Thay can get pretty heavy. I do 4x5 round for cows and small squares for local horse crowd.


 I have an IH 895, it can lift 4x6. the JD 4230 I use to mow with might not be able to handle the large square balers. I know the large square are the most efficient, I am still deciding if that is the way I need to go. There are so many variables. It will take me weeks after this forum to make a final decision, currently I am in Afghanistan, so I wont need to do anything until I return. Ultimetly I would prefer raising live stock and baling hay for my animals and also for revenue to offset some of the cost, you know be diversified. I do the small squares too, and the market for that in my area is tremendous, the Amish will buy it all. I am pretty confident in the interest of compromise(so I don't have to sell everything I use to manage hay with now and replace it with larger and more expensive equipment) I will need to go round bale, I have a builing that can probably hold close to five hundred 4x6, and a lean-to that can hold another five hundred. I just really want to make sure that when I bale a thousand of them, I can get rid of them before the next season. Probably should invest in a crop saver and treat the hay for when I bale every single acre I have ( 300) and see how easy it is to sell and ship the hay; do that for two seasons, and then make adjustments in order to meet the needs of the market.Tim/South and JD 3430 thanks for the info and thoughts.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Is using a GMC topkick 24' x 8' wide dump flatbed with removable sides a good Idea for moving and dumping small square and 4x6round bales for short trips ( under 150 miles)or would I be better off using a 1 ton truck and 31' multi trailer. I can see myself also using the topkick with sides on it to move sheep and lamb also to market ( I would tarp the top. The benifits of the multi trailer is it can move round, square, and equipment. Wife is a Pa State Trooper so I have to stay legal. Thought?


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Donald, welcome to Haytalk. I run a smaller operation which I feed 25 hd of cows during the winter. I spring calf which I sell in the fall. I put up my own hay using a 5x6 round baler string tie(for now). If your primary need is your livestock and they will eat rounds and you have the capacty to handle 5x6 rb that is what I would do (net wrap baler). As you grow you can update to the big square as you progress. Unless you have the barns to put the squares in now or money for tarps etc. I think you can save money faster feeding rb, easer to handle, store and feed. You can also contract out the extra hay into square bales for now if your buyers demands are for the bs...er big squares. Good luck and thank you for all that you are doing. God bless and hurry home Martin


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Donald, one reason we went into cows years ago was to help us move hay = diversify.
In the '80's everyone and their brother around here baled hay. Rather than cut our price to compete with a lesser grade hay, we bought a few cows. We figured if a person could make money buying hay to feed cows, we could as well.
There is not much Ag going on in my community these days.
The only ones I know making a living at it are those who are pretty much self reliant.
I believe you are headed in the right direction.

BTW, My hay hauler is a Mack 250 flatbed pulling a gooseneck. I can put 4 rolls on the flatbed and 14 on the goose.
My old F350 will pull the 14 alright. The Mack is just a lot more truck, less strain.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Donald thank you for your service to our country. Should have mentioned it earlier. I bet after being in harms way, reading our daily trials & tribulations must seem laughable....
I like that truck. Nice long bed. My 4800 is nice with 4WD, but only a 12' dumpbox.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Appreciate all the ideas and thoughts, thanks for the salute, honestly, serving is my pleasure; and as far as the toughness of it compared to baling hay, well when you bale hay you are at the mercy of so many variables, only your knowledge, ingenuity, with a bit of luck can get you out of a fix. I have had the panic of something breaking while the hay is down, and I have seen it in others. In the hay buisness you have to fix your problems, in war, you just shoot them. They are both tough, and both require special people to get it done.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It's still so humbling to know what all of you do over there and the sacrifices, both mental and physical you are making for our freedom. 
It will be great to have you return and resue your dreams in an enviroment that's free of an enemy and you can be with your family again.
I do the same as Tim South. Couple rolls on truck, dozen or more on flatbed.


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