# jd 4240 Black checkered material in hydraulic sump



## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Does anybody know how to identify where the material in my hydraulic sump came from? im not sure if it is clutch, synchronizer, two speed, or brake material how can i tell the difference? Is there is a different pattern in the clutch material that will allow me to identify it that way?


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

First off do you have a picture. Brakes are squares usually black, clutch are more like raised dimples usually tan but for some reason when clutch mixes with oil it turns really black and stinks


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Could it be from the inside of a worn hose?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JOR Farm said:


> First off do you have a picture. Brakes are squares usually black, clutch are more like raised dimples usually tan but for some reason when clutch mixes with oil it turns really black and stinks


I agree that a photo would help ID material in question.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Here are some pics there are only 5 plates on the synchronizer I think there should be six and one was in the sump


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think you're correct about 1 synchronizer disk AWOL from shaft. Large piece of lining resembles axle brake lining.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

Jim is spot on correct. You gonna have fun splitting twice to get that shaft out.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Would that one syncro missing keep it from going into gear?


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Generally speaking, without the full syncro stack I wouldn't think there would be any 'braking' of the gear you are trying to engage, and it would just grind continuously. I'm not completely familiar with this trans though...


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

I found these pics on the web. This sure looks like the black clutch material instead of the orange synchronizer in the pics


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Diif lock plates and perma clutch plates have waffles too. 
Eek


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

It's been many yrs since I viewed the Perma-clutch disk plates but I was thinking the fiber was brown in color on clutch plates i not black. 1st Perma-clutch I saw I wondered because they were so thin how they could last very long BUT they will last a long time. My 4255 with original clutch plates proves that fact.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

Every factory clutch I have seen is brown no clue about aftermarket. Not sure if it helps but after you do the brakes I would put it back together fill with oil, bypass neutral start switch, crank it in gear. Your high low shifts will tell you how bad the synchronizer is and if it doesn't respond to foot clutch pedal you know that's bad too.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

I think you are right about brown in color, new. Been a while for me too. But since it failed, no telling what color they are now.
Since you have to go after the top shaft anyhow, You will have access to clutch. I'd pull it apart, they aren't bad, just follow instructions in tech manual to set properly. If you end up going the double split route, lift the cab off.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I would do the wheel brakes at the same time, no point in going back in later.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Farmineer95 said:


> Since you have to go after the top shaft anyhow, You will have access to clutch.


Spitting tractor for R&R of traction/pto clutches & R&R of trans top/input shaft requires 2 seperate splits.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

JOR Farm said:


> Every factory clutch I have seen is brown no clue about aftermarket. Not sure if it helps but after you do the brakes I would put it back together fill with oil, bypass neutral start switch, crank it in gear. Your high low shifts will tell you how bad the synchronizer is and if it doesn't respond to foot clutch pedal you know that's bad too.


JOR Farm how do i bypass the neutral start switch? will i use a jumper wire back to the other side of the wire or is there another way?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Take a piece of stiff wire similar to baling wire form a 3-4'' piece of wire in a U shape the place wire in NS switch wiring connector after it been removed from NS switch.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

Y'all take the long way to get there. I just use a screwdriver at the starter. As long as you have a friend you trust in the cab.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

JOR Farm said:


> Y'all take the long way to get there. I just use a screwdriver at the starter. As long as you have a friend you trust in the cab.


I was merely answering treyrooter's question about circumventing the NS switch for starting engine. Since 1970 I've shorted across starter solenoid posts utilizing a screwdriver on more tractors than I can remember.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I was pretty sure you had Jim, I was just yanking his chain a bit. I was raised on a 4020 that to this day still has a "screw key" riding around stuck in a hole in the step just in case it doesn't want to crank.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

I pulled both rear axles the brakes looked new. I will start pulling the cab to repair the top shaft synchronizer. I’ve been trying to figure out the best way to split twice: one to do the synchronizer and again to inspect the clutch and two speed. Would it be easier to spit at the clutch and trans repair the synchronizer then put that all back together then split for clutch or pull the clutch housing off with the trans still rolled back?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

treyrooster said:


> . Would it be easier to spit at the clutch and trans repair the synchronizer then put that all back together then split for clutch ?


That's the method I'd recommend.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

treyrooster said:


> I pulled both rear axles the brakes looked new. I will start pulling the cab to repair the top shaft synchronizer. I've been trying to figure out the best way to split twice: one to do the synchronizer and again to inspect the clutch and two speed. Would it be easier to spit at the clutch and trans repair the synchronizer then put that all back together then split for clutch or pull the clutch housing off with the trans still rolled back?


Had a JD400 that when I pulled it apart to replace a differential the one brake pad still looked like new, wasn't bonded to anything anymore but still looked new.

It's apart, freshen everything up.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Can someone tell me which way this should face or does it even matter?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question. I can't envision why the orientation of the disk would make any difference.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I have never noticed until now but in my shop manuals the pictures of synchronizer plates are square shouldered in 20,30 series and 1 shoulder angled in 55 series. Can't say on the 40 I loaned my books for it out. The 55's that I have done I lined them up the same way they were(I take lots of pictures before I take something apart) it's been 3 years since I have seen a top shaft so I will have to ask one of the guys at the JD store. Sorry I ain't much help


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

It’s hard to tell in this pic


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

just thought id do an update on this project. Tractor would only grind and not go into gear so i checked hydraulic fluid and found a black material in the sump. So far I've pulled both differentials to repair brakes (both looked almost new), I found bad synchronizers when i removed the trans cover. Split at the trans and clutch to find no facings on any of the syncro pack and one of its plates missing. While replacing the discs i discovered a galled gear on the front side of the top shaft, the drums and other parts had quite a bit of wear so bought a new used top shaft and installed. Once the tractor was back together i tried to put it into gear it would not go but the grinding was gone and it would roll while holding up on the gear shift. Now the tractor is split at the clutch and engine and i have found clutch material hanging from the clutch. Ive looked at reman clutches and they are around $1k. I don't have the clutch removed yet but all of the fingers look to be in really good condition. I'm wondering if it is possible to replace the friction discs without replacing the plate with the fingers? Ive never been inside a perma clutch before so if my friction discs are the only issue will i need to have the clutch adjusted if they are replaced?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think if it was my tractor I'd adjust fingers with the tool & reseal clutch operating pistons(traction & pto). IIRC one can take flywheel & clutch components to dealership for adjustment then reinstall flywheel & then clutch components.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

Jim is right. Look at it in a good way sounds like you already fixed the hard stuff clutch is a piece of cake


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

im planning on pulling the piston and the two speed im guessing the fiber discs in the two speed are trashed as well. Is this complicated?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IIRC once tractor is split hyd 2 speed isn't difficult to repair but unit is heavy.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

treyrooster said:


> im planning on pulling the piston and the two speed im guessing the fiber discs in the two speed are trashed as well. Is this complicated?





treyrooster said:


> im planning on pulling the piston and the two speed im guessing the fiber discs in the two speed are trashed as well. Is this complicated?










I know it has some moisture exposure but do the clutch plates look normal, are some missing?


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I think the repair kits come with 4 plates and 3 disks and some o-rings. I only see 3 plates in the picture but it might look different when you take it apart. Print out parts breakdown and lay it all out on a table to make sure you have everything.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto what JOR stated. Parts schematic shows 4 plates & 3 disks.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Ended up pulling out the two speed and pulling it apart. I figured the moisture did it’s thing in there as well and it did. The front side of the unit was loose idk if that is normal or if there is something else wrong besides the missing clutch material. This is the only one I’ve ever removed is that normal if not














what do I need to look at inside there?


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

It looks like the facing material is missing from the splined plates. Is there anything on them?
Check that the pins that hold the planet gears to the carrier are tight in the carrier.
Reseal the pistons and replace any snap rings that hold belleville springs in place, inspect snap ring grooves for any inconsistencies. 
When you get it back together be sure to check transmission pressures.


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

Farmineer95 said:


> It looks like the facing material is missing from the splined plates. Is there anything on them?
> Check that the pins that hold the planet gears to the carrier are tight in the carrier.
> Reseal the pistons and replace any snap rings that hold belleville springs in place, inspect snap ring grooves for any inconsistencies.
> When you get it back together be sure to check transmission pressures.


All of the facings are gone on both clutch sets in the 2 speed. the pins looked to be tight.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I have only seen one that was gone that bad ,no fibers left in clutch or 2 speed. When I was first called to it to repair it was just a bad oil leak that I didn't want to fix in the field they loaded it on a trailer brought it to my shop without putting any oil in it. I fixed the leak then added about 10 are 12 gallons of oil only to find it wouldn't go into gear without grinding


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## treyrooster (Mar 22, 2021)

I’m terrified that when this thing goes back together the clutch fibers in the differential will be gone as well


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