# Vermeer Rebel Balers



## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

One of the big selling points of these round balers is that they can be operated by a "low" PTO HP tractor. A couple of the 4x5 models require only 40 PTO HP per Vermeer. this and supposed ease of operation would presumably appeal to many of the part timers and weekend warriors out there that do not have or need an 80 HP tractor sitting in their shed. I believe the Rebel lineof balers came out around 2000 and are made to this day. Now assuming JD and NH have higher recommended HP requirements for their 4x5 balers, what was the silver bullet or technology Vermeer used in their Rebel balers enabling a "low HP" tractor to run them?

P.S. we do not need to discuss the fact that many 40HP tractors would be thrown around by a fully loaded Rebel on hills- a topic for another cold day.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I believe a good portion of the lower HP would be the friction "bubbles" on the inside chamber walls. They push in the hay feeding into the chamber a little more. The hay can expand to the chamber walls after passing the bubbles but do not have as much constant wall pressure as the bale is formed.

I removed the bubbles from my Vermeer baler. It makes a prettier bale with out them.

My baler is a 504 M Classic Silage Baler, not the Rebel. My understanding is that I would need to put the bubbles back on if I did silage. Not sure if they are needed for silage or HP reduction.

ETA:

The Vermeer Rebel does not have to power the stuffer on the pick up like some baler use. This may also be one of the reasons. Vermeer has engineered a very sturdy baler with as little moving parts as possible. Not any do-dad's added on to make it function better.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

IIRC the NH 450 utility was similar. What are hp requirements for that and a 459e? I will ask google...


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

NH 450 utility: 40 hp.

Deere 459e: 55


----------



## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

The first Rebel baler, the 5400, turned slower and used the minimum amount of parts needed to make a bale. It also had lower belt tension. It was a simplified 504IS and held up very well. We have Amish customers that run 5400 balers with a 30hp power unit (plus 4 horses).

The 5410 and 5420 turned faster and thus took more power. I don't recommend the 5410 baler unless you are doing less than 200 dry bales per year. It can bale wet hay but does not hold up well in silage.


----------



## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

Curious as to where you came up with the 200 dry bales per year figure E220? My neighbor's 5410 has over 2500 bales on it lifetime (since 2012) and all he's had to do is add rolls of net. It's not a silage baler, and Vermeer makes no secret about that.


----------



## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

I pull that number from experience. He's done well to get that many bales out of it. Does he have a pressure gauge on it? We have been running ours at lower belt tension for better longevity.


----------



## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

Yes E220, I found your statement a bit puzzling myself. Some quick math : assume 850 lb 4x5's from the Rebel. assume 3.75 tons per acre annual yield, probably pretty "average". To hit 200 bales per year you will be working a whopping 23 acres! Now I saw some of the promotional Vermeer material, and they are clearly not targeting the full time rancher running a couple hundred head (indicated in my initial post), But is the Rebel line, which is supposed to be decently well made "recommended" for such light annual duty? You see them on Tractorhouse with asking prices floating around $10-$15K and there is no way you can amortize that over 23 acres. Also, what pressure do you run your baler at and what is the weight of your bales?


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Our Vermeer dealer says that 400 - 500 rolls per year is typically what a Rebel is bought for.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> Our Vermeer dealer says that 400 - 500 rolls per year is typically what a Rebel is bought for.


I would call that a lighter duty amount 4-5 hundred. That would cover many farms in my area due to the high cost of land and population densities.

Regards, Mike


----------



## 10ecfarmer (Jun 9, 2015)

My neighbor has a 5410, He'll hit 10K bales in the 1st week of haying this coming spring.

I only put around 400+ a year on my N Vermeer.


----------



## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

We have a lot of Amish customers. They wanted a light baler that they could pull with horses. The 5400 worked well and would need serviced every 3000 bales which was 5 years for most of our customers. The 5410 needed the belts laced around every thousand bales(In our experience). I like a five year service cycle in the equipment I sell, as in you call the dealer every 5 years for a major rebuild. Therefore, more than 2000 bales per year=PRO series. 200-2000 per year=R series. Less than 200=Rebel series.

I realize that many people can tell stories of excellent service from 5410 series and I'm glad to hear it. I am curious as to what the difference is. I think the main problems seem to be from running the belt tension too high. We try to have our customers keep the pressure under 1500PSI. If the baler does not have a pressure gauge, I recommend installing one.


----------



## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

If anybody is coming to the York Farmshow, stop by to visit. Ask for Evan.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

E220

What type belt lacings does Vermeer utilize that require re-lacing every 1000 bales? I replaced the belts on my JD baler Winter of '15 that had baled 20,000 bales & no lacings had been replaced.

Thanks,Jim


----------



## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

The Rebel balers are very popular where I live due to the low horsepower requirements (and we have great dealer support). When pulling steep hills you don't have to have as expensive a tractor to be able to go up the hill AND to keep the baler operating properly. You DO need enough tractor weight to keep from being pushed down the hill (and/or plan on not coming down with a full chamber). Most people here do 100-500 rolls a year, but almost all do 4x5 dry rolls and 4x4 haylage rolls with them (local Vermeer dealer rents out a wrapper). I do a couple hundred of both with my Rebel 5420 which has the alligator belts that you do not have to worry about lacing. But there are guys I know that have 5400's and 5410's that do 800-1,000 haylage rolls a year (all 4x4 and replace a lot of bearings, especially on the 5400's). The 5410 has larger bearings and built a little heavier than the 5400, and I believe has a better pickup. Also, we don't have a lot of tractorable land here, and what is tractorable is not in big fields, so you spend a lot of time going from one small field to another, so a higher capacity baler doesn't add much more efficiency to your operation. And for $17,000 and 0% interest my 5420 brand new was hard to beat!


----------



## E220 (Feb 10, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> E220
> What type belt lacings does Vermeer utilize that require re-lacing every 1000 bales? I replaced the belts on my JD baler Winter of '15 that had baled 20,000 bales & no lacings had been replaced.
> Thanks,Jim


We run the alligator and mato place. I know stones make a huge difference. In our area JD only get around 5000-7000 bales on their belts. One county north, JD will get 10,000 bales before needing relaced.


----------



## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

E220 said:


> If anybody is coming to the York Farmshow, stop by to visit. Ask for Evan.


Ahhhh.... so you're a dealer/salesman of sorts? 5410 is a great baler. Not sure I agree with much of what you said at all. It's hard to beat a 5410 for the money, and unless you're doing hundreds to thousands of acres a season, spending more to gain nothing more doesn't make financial sense. I'm sure at that point, an operation would require multiple higher hp tractors and big square or 5x6 rd balers. My suggestion to competitors is to build a better product that doesn't require the consumer to buy one of their higher hp overpriced tractors to do the same job as a 65hp tractor with a 5410, instead of paying their salesmen/factory reps to discredit the products that outperform their own. Not directed (directly) at you E220.


----------



## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Evan knows what he's talking about. The Amish tend to run their equipment hard and bale mostly silage and if they've got a 5' baler they aren't going to make 4' bales unless it's extremely wet.


----------



## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

discbinedr said:


> Evan knows what he's talking about. The Amish tend to run their equipment hard and bale mostly silage and if they've got a 5' baler they aren't going to make 4' bales unless it's extremely wet.


Not doubting that, but a 5410 isnt a silage baler, and we aren't Amish.


----------

