# Tractor surged, died, now won't even crank.



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I was overseeding a pasture with my TS110 and a 3-pt broadcast spreader and had been running about 1/2 hour or more. All of sudden, the tractor started surging, losing power, then died. This happened over about 20 seconds.

Now, the little darling won't even crank. I did disengage the PTO before trying to start because there is an interlock in it.

At first, I though maybe it jelled up because it was 11 this morning. I was supposedly running a winter blend.

What has me puzzled is that it won't even crank. I would think that if it had jelled up, it would crank but not start. No error codes are displayed.

Any thoughts?

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Have you lost all signs of electrical power... or two other things on 12 volt DC power up


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Have you checked battery voltage?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Dash board lights come on, everything looks and acts normally electrically. Battery was fully charged before engine died.

I wonder if there is an interlock on the fuel pump system? No fuel pressure = no start?

The surging and loss of power has got me puzzled.

Ralph


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Please explain what you mean when you state "won't crank". Do you mean engine won't start running or won't turn over? Surging normally indicates not enough fuel is getting to IP or injectors.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> Please explain what you mean when you state "won't crank". Do you mean engine won't start running or won't turn over? Surging normally indicates not enough fuel is getting to IP or injectors.


I agree about the fuel.

The starter doesn't even spin and I don't hear the solenoid engage. Normally, on a fuel problem, the starter would at least spin. It's like there is an interlock tripped someplace that has been tripped.

The owner's manual doesn't say anything about this kind of problem. (It doesn't even have a troubleshooting section).

I am waiting on a call back from a NH dealer.

Ralph


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

It certainly sounds like it ran out of fuel the way it surged and then died. The not spinning over would make me think its something electrical that killed the fuel supply causing it to die and also now not spin over. blown fuse or fuseable link somewhere?

I wouldn't think the fuel gelled. I've run straight untreated number 2 in the few degrees below zero range. straight number 2 with power service will be good to -15 maybe colder. I prefer to have a 50/50 mix of 1 and 2 with power service treatment when it goes below -10.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

IHCman said:


> It certainly sounds like it ran out of fuel the way it surged and then died. The not spinning over would make me think its something electrical that killed the fuel supply causing it to die and also now not spin over. blown fuse or fuseable link somewhere?
> 
> I wouldn't think the fuel gelled. I've run straight untreated number 2 in the few degrees below zero range. straight number 2 with power service will be good to -15 maybe colder. I prefer to have a 50/50 mix of 1 and 2 with power service treatment when it goes below -10.


That's my thoughts also--but where? I wish the manual had a little more info.

Ralph


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

I can't advise about gelling because it does not get cold enough for that here. If my TS100 surges it is because there is something blocking fuel delivery. I am unaware of any interlock, and I have all the manuals. The only thing I can think of that would prevent the starter motor engaging if the battery and electrical connections are good is the forward-reverse gear lever not being in neutral.

Roger


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tried cycling the reverser lever several times. I know there are interlocks on both the reverser lever and the clutch pedal, but these both prevent you from going to the start position on the key switch. I can go to the start position--just nothing!

Ralph

It's a puzzlement.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

bool said:


> is the forward-reverse gear lever not being in neutral.
> 
> Roger


I hope it's something as simple as this, I know someone who has done something like this. :huh:

Larry


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> I can go to the start position--just nothing!
> 
> Ralph
> It's a puzzlement.


Can you access any of the electrical with a meter or continuity tester? I'm thinking a switch/fuse/capacitor etc. going bad (most likely in the fuel delivery system would be my first choice in troubleshooin'). Sometimes it's the simple less things (I hope).

This definitely a place were the old tractors were easier to troubleshoot it seems, with a lot less 'electronics'.

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sounds to me that your tractor has an electrical problem that will require some serious diagnostics to determine the problem.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Sounds dumb but I would start by checking all battery connections and the frame grounds. I’m guessing you have an electrical problem.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

On the to-do list tommorrow: Check the battery ground connection; check the fuel cutoff fuse.

Ralph


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Have you tried jumping it? I have had battery died totally of a sudden more than one.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Palmettokat said:


> Have you tried jumping it? I have had battery died totally of a sudden more than one.


Has happened to me as well. Wife Jeep barely cranked one morning, figured she left a dome light on or something, jumped it a few minutes and it popped right off. Got to town at the intersection and it just died, deader than a doornail. Sent her across the street to the local garage to get a jumper pack while I pushed it into a parking space. Put the jumper pack on and it started right up, unhooked jumper pack and ran just long enough to close the hood. Deader than a doornail again, hooked jumper pack backup, it popped right off and drove across the street with the jumper pack hooked up yet. Unhooked it at the garage and ran maybe 30 seconds then deader than a doornail again. Battery tested as junk. New battery fixed it.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Another thought, from my experience with the NH TM I used to have. Could be that the fuel lift pump is on a relay that is shared with the cranking solenoid. Relays are known to fail, either internally or the connection between the terminals and the relay goes bad. Look for evidence of heat damage and magic smoke smell either of the relay housing or base.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Palmettokat said:


> Have you tried jumping it? I have had battery died totally of a sudden more than one.


I have not tried jumping it. Panel lights up nice and bright, doesn't dim when I turn key to start.

I would think a fuel system problem would not prevent it from cranking.

Relay is a possibility--I'll check it out tomorrow.

Thanks everybody for the ideas.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Did you turn the pto off .


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

endrow said:


> Did you turn the pto off .


Yes, actually cycled the switch several times just to make sure.

Thanks,

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The dying out like that could have been fuel shutoff solenoid dropping out too if it's a power to run type. Wiring diagram would help.

Those NH's had a number of fuel pump and harness issues in the 40 and 60 series so could certainly be that too.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Well, here's the scoop. Called NH dealer for a service call and a top-notch tech shows up.

He tried starting it and experienced the same symptom (not cranking) I experienced. Checked the OPS safety switch, clutch, brake, reverser interlocks--no problem. It was 35 and windy out in the field, so he disconnected the starter switch wire to the solenoid and bypassed all the wiring--tractor started right up. Not a fuel problem. He reconnected the starter switch/solenoid spade connection.

He drove it back to the shed to work on it inside.

Got it inside, turned it off, restarted it 4-5 times--no problem.

Checked fuel flow, no problem.

Near as we can figure, there must have been corrosion on the spade lug at the starter solenoid that got rubbed off sufficiently in the bypass process because that was the only connection he messed with.

We're guessing the surging I felt was that the interlock connection was cutting in and out and that the engine wasn't actually surging, but dying, then the governor would kick in and rev the engine up (I had been running about 1500 RPM.)

I finished spreading the grass seed and everything worked fine.

I just love an intermittent electrical problem! They are so much fun to find.

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Only thing better is to diagnose is two intermittent electrical problems together.


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Yes. I just had the local Polaris dealer import a second hand throttle body for a 570 from the USA which didn't fix the the problem. It turned out to be dodgy wiring.

It's good your tractor is going again.

Roger


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

slowzuki said:


> Only thing better is to diagnose is two intermittent electrical problems together.


Just went through this with water heaters on my one stock tank. Tree came down right on the lines (I have two going to the tank) and cut through one. 3" either side would have missed them. Turned out I had one bad line, one bad heater. What a PITA to find!

Ralph


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## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

That's another reason I like the older tractors.Don't get me wrong,I think my 6640 is great but electrical problems have made a day go not well a couple times.Alternator trouble equaled no PTO.Solenoid on fuel pump shut me down baling hay and rest got wet before I could get going.Plus a service call to the field.


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