# Fertilizer choices, Coastal Bermuda, may be going in blind-folded



## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

*My soil testing report is supposed to be emailed to me today! I have 30 acres of coastal Bermuda, where I baled last week and aerated the fields as well. There is a BIG rain event starting on Sunday and lasting until Wednesday of next week. I am highly motivated to fertilize today or tomorrow!*

*My dilemma! In the event I do not get the soil email report I have the premixed choices below...*

*Helena Chemical has given me these two choices of blends*

*1) 30-10-10 -1 **Sulfur*

*2) 21-7-14 -9 Sulfur*

****Both at a recommended rate of 250 pounds per acre*

****Price difference is $132.00*

*Very simple questions; *

*1) Which would you go with given it's a Coastal Bermuda Hay Field near Wallis Texas? *

*2) How many pounds per acre?*

*3) What's with the Sulfur difference?*

*4) Be patient, miss the rain event and wait for the soil **analysis?*

*Thanks and Be Safe!*

*Mark*


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Update...

Am I reading this correctly, only 95 lbs Nitrogen per acre? Is that correct?

Any input would be great!


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

95 units of N the way I read it. That will come with a hefty price tag.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I need to fertilize some coastal too but I'm waiting after this rain event. I think we are going to get to much rain to fast. The ground will be plenty wet to absorb it after this rain. 
I fertilize 200 pounds per acre with a 30-10-10. 
If I followed what A&M suggests I fertilize from my soil samples I'd go broke.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Yes, they wanted 341 pounds per acre around 2,300... Went with 250 pounds per acre and around $1,500


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## Timz (Nov 9, 2011)

I agree with Colby, I'm in Schulenburg and am holding off until after the rain. That stuff is too expensive to end up in the pond. I've been doing 150 lbs. per acre of 30-10-10.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Well, all my area is super flat and aerated all of them... I'm believing my combo will end up deep in the soil...


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Question, my entire property is about a 5.4 to 5.8 acidic. Recommendation is 1 to 1.4 per acre...

The rep said best to do in January. Opinions? Wait or do it after my next cut which will be mid May?


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Attached pictures of my flat and aerated hay field...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Well, all my area is super flat and aerated all of them... I'm believing my combo will end up deep in the soil...


Which is good for phosphorus because it doesn't move through the soil with water (leaching). Nitrogen is water soluable and WILL move where the water does. We get a flood, most of your N goes down the creek. ALSO, nitrogen tends to go away in waterlogged soils. It's prone to denitrification. Of course some formulations of nitrogen are better than others (urea is particularly prone to such problems as I recall).

When it's calling for 95 lbs, that's 95 lbs ACTUAL N per acre-- not 95 lbs of fertilizer. That means you multiply your fertilizer analysis number like a percentage by the pounds of actual N needed. Say a 12-24-12 fertilizer would have 12 lbs of ACTUAL N, 24 lbs ACTUAL P, and 12 lbs of ACTUAL K per 100 lbs. Course a lot of fertilizer is blended to more closely approximate the proportions you need. Quick example-- if you're applying 32-0-0 liquid fertilizer, that's 32 lbs actual N per 100 lbs. So for 95 lbs ACTUAL N per acre, you's have to apply 300 lbs per acre, since 300 x .32(%)= 96 lbs ACTUAL N per acre.

It doesn't take much rain to carry N down into the soil. If you've aerated your pasture (what did you use?? Shank style ripper renovator or a rolling type like an Aer-Way or what?-- just curious) it should help but I STILL don't think I'd risk putting out all that expensive fertilizer and risk have it going to pot if we get a big flood.

Hope this helps! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Question, my entire property is about a 5.4 to 5.8 acidic. Recommendation is 1 to 1.4 per acre...
> 
> The rep said best to do in January. Opinions? Wait or do it after my next cut which will be mid May?


You could put a ton out fairly easily. Thing is, lime takes time to work. The finer the particle size, the faster it'll work, but the more expensive it is. You could probably spin out some fine prilled lime if you want to see any results this year, but it'll be expensive. If you go with other forms of lime, it'll probably be next year before you really see a lot of benefit.

Later! OL J R


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> You could put a ton out fairly easily. Thing is, lime takes time to work. The finer the particle size, the faster it'll work, but the more expensive it is. You could probably spin out some fine prilled lime if you want to see any results this year, but it'll be expensive. If you go with other forms of lime, it'll probably be next year before you really see a lot of benefit.
> 
> Later! OL J R


Thanks! Great info! The aerator is an aerway.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Which is good for phosphorus because it doesn't move through the soil with water (leaching). Nitrogen is water soluable and WILL move where the water does. We get a flood, most of your N goes down the creek. ALSO, nitrogen tends to go away in waterlogged soils. It's prone to denitrification. Of course some formulations of nitrogen are better than others (urea is particularly prone to such problems as I recall).
> 
> When it's calling for 95 lbs, that's 95 lbs ACTUAL N per acre-- not 95 lbs of fertilizer. That means you multiply your fertilizer analysis number like a percentage by the pounds of actual N needed. Say a 12-24-12 fertilizer would have 12 lbs of ACTUAL N, 24 lbs ACTUAL P, and 12 lbs of ACTUAL K per 100 lbs. Course a lot of fertilizer is blended to more closely approximate the proportions you need. Quick example-- if you're applying 32-0-0 liquid fertilizer, that's 32 lbs actual N per 100 lbs. So for 95 lbs ACTUAL N per acre, you's have to apply 300 lbs per acre, since 300 x .32(%)= 96 lbs ACTUAL N per acre.
> 
> ...


Thanks JR, I understand it now!

I did put it out... A 27-27-0-1

The chemicals were Ammonium Sulfate, Diammonium Phosphate, and Urea... Put out 7,540 pounds over 30 acres or 250 pounds per acre, 3.77 tons x $433.36 = $1,633.77

Well, lesson learned if a washout... Knowing my property it would have to rain 5 or 6 plus inches in one period of time to see water running or flooding my hay fields... I'm hoping for 2 inches and then a break of a day and then believe I would be good...

Thanks,

Mark


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Thanks! Great info! The aerator is an aerway.


Where would I be able to get that lime? Helena orders Limestone and then another company puts it out...? Seems like too many middle men...

Thanks,

Mark


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

SilentH said:


> Where would I be able to get that lime? Helena orders Limestone and then another company puts it out...? Seems like too many middle men...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark


As for "quick lime" or "pelletized lime". That is what it is called here for lime that will raise PH quickly (and therefore will leave quickly) 100 lbs per acre would probably tide you over until the regular lime has time to work.

73, Mark


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Texas Crushed Stone Co. in Georgetown is your best source for the fine limestone (ECCE 100%). Limestone can be applied anytime you can get someone to haul and spread it. The sooner you get it applied, the sooner the pH will be corrected. With the pH test results that your samples showed, one ton per acre on all fields would be sufficient this year.

Once again, soil pH does not go down faster when corrected by using fine limestone. The opposite is true because finer limestone raises soil pH faster and to a higher level than does the same amount of a coarser limestone. Since the finer limestone raises pH to a higher level, it takes linger for that higher pH to come back down.

The larger particles in coarse limestone are really not effective in changing soil pH. If you purchase an ECCE 100% limestone for correcting soil pH, all that limestone will be reactive. If you purchase a corarser ECCE 64% limestone, 36% of that limestone will essentially be ineffective for increasing soil pH. That means that for every ton of limestone you have hauled to your farm, you could consider that 720 lb of each ton will be ineffective for neutralizing soil acidity. For each ton hauled, you might consider it has a 720 lb rock in it that you could just as well drop off at the field gate and use for a better purpose than applying to your soil to increase pH.

One more point, finer limestone purchased from most quarries is possibly $2 to $4 per ton more expensive than the coarser limestone. If you are told otherwise by your limestone dealer, he isn't being truthful. The difference in price may be due to the finer limestone having to be transported by covered truck, whereas, the coarser limestone can be transported by rail and dumped at a dealership for a cheaper rate. There are cost trade offs in the freight costs.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

According to Luke S:

*When it's calling for 95 lbs, that's 95 lbs ACTUAL N per acre-- not 95 lbs of fertilizer. That means you multiply your fertilizer analysis number like a percentage by the pounds of actual N needed. Say a 12-24-12 fertilizer would have 12 lbs of ACTUAL N, 24 lbs ACTUAL P, and 12 lbs of ACTUAL K per 100 lbs*.

This is mostly correct except that in each blend of fertilizer the 2nd number is not actual P, but is represented as P2O5,, and the the third number in the blend is not actual K, but is repersented as K2O. Don't ask me why this is so, but it is the way the fertilizer industry wants to represent P and K in a fertilizer blend. Perhaps the industry wants to show a higher percentage of nutrient in the blend by using P2O5 and K2O.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

One more point regarding fertilizing Coastal bermudagrass. This grass uses nearly as much potassium as it does nitrogen. Shorting Coastal bermudagrass on its need for potassium will lead to stand thinning and eventual loss of stand.


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

Will you be feeding this hay yourself or selling it? If feeding what to, and how many bales do you need to put up?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

vhaby said:


> One more point regarding fertilizing Coastal bermudagrass. This grass uses nearly as much potassium as it does nitrogen. Shorting Coastal bermudagrass on its need for potassium will lead to stand thinning and eventual loss of stand.


This is preached to us here by our regional extension agent.

Our rule of thumb is that for each ton of bermuda removed we need to add 30 lb. of potassium.

Does that sound right? I know locations may vary.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> This is preached to us here by our regional extension agent.
> Our rule of thumb is that for each ton of bermuda removed we need to add 30 lb. of potassium.
> Does that sound right? I know locations may vary.


That's purty close Tim.......it depends on my fertilization schedule for the year but I always try to put around 200 units of K a year Ifn I can. I'll be spinning NPK next week.....90-10-90, the next application will probably be applied via sprayer so it will be 90-05-20, next is spray 90-05-20, then followed by another spin at 120-10-90........it gets expensive really quick for sure.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Not sure about everyone else, but I would imagine everyone has seen NPK prices dropping significantly.....I priced N yesterday a urea product in liquid at .45 that's as cheap as I've bought it in a long, long time......


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

It gets very expensive to grow things on the coastal plain....I thank God for my clay soils....they have their drawbacks, but they have their pluses also. Those midwest soils are really hard to beat....but their drawback is the weather compared to the sunbelt.....but, we take what we get and make the best of the situation....this is a great Country we live in.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> It gets very expensive to grow things on the coastal plain....I thank God for my clay soils....they have their drawbacks, but they have their pluses also. Those midwest soils are really hard to beat....but their drawback is the weather compared to the sunbelt.....but, we take what we get and make the best of the situation....this is a great Country we live in.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Indeed!


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

vhaby said:


> Texas Crushed Stone Co. in Georgetown is your best source for the fine limestone (ECCE 100%). Limestone can be applied anytime you can get someone to haul and spread it. The sooner you get it applied, the sooner the pH will be corrected. With the pH test results that your samples showed, one ton per acre on all fields would be sufficient this year.
> 
> Once again, soil pH does not go down faster when corrected by using fine limestone. The opposite is true because finer limestone raises soil pH faster and to a higher level than does the same amount of a coarser limestone. Since the finer limestone raises pH to a higher level, it takes linger for that higher pH to come back down.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Great information, Georgetown is 2 hours away.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

vhaby said:


> One more point regarding fertilizing Coastal bermudagrass. This grass uses nearly as much potassium as it does nitrogen. Shorting Coastal bermudagrass on its need for potassium will lead to stand thinning and eventual loss of stand.


I appreciate your input! I see on my soil report Potasium is not recommended? Are you saying I should or Helena should have added that into the mix? Or are you saying, be aware and something to watch out for?


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

hay-man said:


> Will you be feeding this hay yourself or selling it? If feeding what to, and how many bales do you need to put up?


I've already made 138 from my first cut which was a combo of winter rye and coastal, which I'm selling and this next cut will be a combination of keeping and selling.

Btw, those who have seen my previous post of 2 years ago, I only see about a dozen vasey grass in the field today and will be taking them out with a spot sprayer of roundup! Impose is a great product that knocked them out! Other than the 12 or so, I'm weed free!


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

In terms of weeds, I missed my opportunity of applying Grazon Next HL, for too much rain in March and my farmers near me had cotton coming up by the time my back pasture was dry, therefore I went with Chapperal, and decided to double the surfactant primarily because a new weed showed up from the wind, and had small yellow flower and just stems. My reasoning was I needed more sticking power. The milling company was real hesitant telling me it was a waist of money. Well, I did it anyway and from past applications if noticed a big difference in this one...

As far as the rain and my location, I've seen it rain everywhere but here over the years and also see flooding in my back pastures but never my front hay fields. I've also seen last year where we had a really wet May and beginning of June (screwed up my sunflower planting for doves) and then a drought through August, so it's a gamble to put out the fertilizer, however if I'm right, then I'll make some great hay for my longhorns and will have choices in terms of the supply, vs. the nightmare of 2011, where I had to buy Bahia hay from Lousianna for $115 delivered. Cows turned up there noses at the stuff, so primarily used as very expensive mulch!

Thank God for Spring!


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## Apm1026 (Feb 11, 2012)

Here in the coastal plain of south GA, UGA says a ton of hay removes about 15 lbs of P and 60 lbs of K 
Same as Alfalfa. Bermuda of course is a luxury consumer of N, after first cutting I apply a 70-0-60, with 10lbs of sulfer and repeat after each cutting. This is on sandy irrigated ground. As far as ph, the mo the better, the closer to 7 you can get the higher availability of your applied nutrients. Once you get your ph in the 6s, I apply 1 ton per acre each winter. If you make multiple applications of Nitrogen on a field this will accelerate the acidification of your soil, when putting out 250-300 lbs of N per acre per season like we do, you will automatically need a ton of lime per year.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

It all depends on conditions.

The rule of thumb is 50# N/T of hay.

Not bad. Still for hay removed there is 40 lbs of N per ton of 12% CP hay.

Fairly Typical for bermudagrass is a 9 CP Hay.

It is reasonable to assume all 50 lbs of N was in the hay as CP before cutting. Say 14% CP & 3T cutting.

That translates to 2.25 T/A in the bale of 12 % CP feed.

But IF we have an excess of leaf shattering we may have 9% CP & 1.9T of hay in the bale.

With baling the hay a little extra dry we will have a lower quality hay needing more hay, but having less hay stored to feed.

HERE I can not rake hay later than 9 am CDT and retain the desired percentage of leaves.

Here I need to be finished baling by 1 or 2 PN CDT and still have a reasonable percentage of leaves in the bale.

There are exceptions.

In Late July and August we do not have enough humidity to rake hay anytime of the day or night.

in at the same time frame we seldom have enough humidity to bale hay after the noon hour.

Here at least that is a way to bale half the hay that was standing, that was standing, before cutting. The story is a little Worster for Round Baled hay.

This does not take into consideration the leaching of nitrogen in sandy soils. In my clay soil nitrogen will persist for 7 years on my soil, with normal harvesting.

Go to Canton in East Texas and nitrogen may persist for 3 to 6 Weeks.

Farming can be very exciting.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Not sure about everyone else, but I would imagine everyone has seen NPK prices dropping significantly.....I priced N yesterday a urea product in liquid at .45 that's as cheap as I've bought it in a long, long time......


I was giving $230 for 32-0-0 now up to $270


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lewis Ranch said:


> I was giving $230 for 32-0-0 now up to $270


When were you paying $230?


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Less than a month ago. Picked up a load about 2 weeks ago and sold it to neighbor then got my bill and realized it jumped $40 a ton, uh oh. Lost some $ there.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Not sure about everyone else, but I would imagine everyone has seen NPK prices dropping significantly.....I priced N yesterday a urea product in liquid at .45 that's as cheap as I've bought it in a long, long time......


You got me excited... Went and priced some 30-10-10 today, was a hair under 400. I wasn't excited anymore.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Thanks! Great info! The aerator is an aerway.


I rented one a few years ago and didn't really see much difference. From what I've read out of A&M Extension studies, they don't really show any consistent benefits to aeration. Note I said "consistent" not "NO benefits". Hard to figure if it's gonna pay or not.

It did a good job of aerating, but it wasn't exactly cheap and took a lot of fuel to pull it.

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> Thanks JR, I understand it now!
> 
> I did put it out... A 27-27-0-1
> 
> ...


Yeah, the two inches and have it stop would be nice. It'd be just about right.

BUT, our weather forecast is for a HIGH chance of rain pretty much til next Saturday starting tomorrow. I'm down just west of Needville and it showered here off and on all day-- spent the day putting up electric fence with my brother.

Hope it works out for ya... nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose. It'll probably work out alright. If it floods and stays wet you might lose some N, but those sorts of things are hard to quantify sometimes. In the end ya gotta roll the dice and takes yer chances.

Best of luck! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> I appreciate your input! I see on my soil report Potasium is not recommended? Are you saying I should or Helena should have added that into the mix? Or are you saying, be aware and something to watch out for?


You should have sufficient K in the soil for the projected crop according to the soil lab's recommendations.

Watch your K levels on future soil tests. If the bermudagrass draws the soil reserves down it'll show up on the test and recommendations next year.

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Apm1026 said:


> Here in the coastal plain of south GA, UGA says a ton of hay removes about 15 lbs of P and 60 lbs of K
> Same as Alfalfa. Bermuda of course is a luxury consumer of N, after first cutting I apply a 70-0-60, with 10lbs of sulfer and repeat after each cutting. This is on sandy irrigated ground. As far as ph, the mo the better, the closer to 7 you can get the higher availability of your applied nutrients. Once you get your ph in the 6s, I apply 1 ton per acre each winter. If you make multiple applications of Nitrogen on a field this will accelerate the acidification of your soil, when putting out 250-300 lbs of N per acre per season like we do, you will automatically need a ton of lime per year.


Yall's Georgia soils are a little different than ours...

I used to grow cotton and sorghum and a little corn and beans thrown in for good measure on occasion, and of course fertilized heavy in corn and sorghum-- our typical recommendations here run about 200-250 lbs/acre of liquid fertilizer for cotton and 400-450 lbs/acre for sorghum/corn (of course the balance is a little more "N" heavy for corn/sorghum versus cotton which is usually more "P" heavy). We have an old John Deere dry fertilizer machine in the barn that Grandpa or Dad got somewhere along the line, and for a few years I put out dry fertilizer, bagged blend, at about 250 lbs to the acre. 12-24-12 and 13-13-13, just to build up the soil nutrient levels because our "P" usually ran low, and liquid P was more expensive. After 2-3 years my soil test for K was sky high, so I switched back to liquid fertilizer (that and I got tired of humping 16 sacks into the machine every third round!)

Anyway, on our black gumbo clay here (although technically it's classified as a "medium clay loam" on the soil tests) even with ALL that fertilizer, our pH never wavered from 7.2 The ONLY time I had a pH below 7.2 is when I'd been farming sorghum on sorghum and fertilizing heavily for about 3-4 years in a row, and we had a wet year the soil stayed very wet most of the year.

My BIL from Indiana cannot believe I've NEVER had to apply lime on this farm, but it's true. I've got soil tests when I was row cropping that went back for years and never had to lime, period.

Later! OL J R


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Public soil testing labs in Texas recommend limestone based on applying tons of 100% Effective Calcium Carbonate Equivalence (ECCE) per acre. Even though the higher ECCE limestone is slightly more expensive, it is the least cost option compared to applying a coarser lower ECCE percentage lower priced limestone.

If the soil test recommends application of 1.0 ton of ECCE 100% limestone/ac, that one ton will contain 2000 lb of effective liming material (ELM). If the choices of limestone to apply are ECCE 62% at a cost of $50/ton, and ECCE 100% at a cost of $55/ton, application of one ton of ECCE 100% limestone/ac will cost $55.

However, if the ECCE 100% is not available, or your local limestone vendor doesn't handle it, the application rate using a lower quality limestone such as ECCE 62% must be adjusted so that the recommended rate of ECCE is applied. This is done by dividing 100% by 62%, and applying that adjustment factor (1.61) to determine the rate of ECCE 62% limestone/ac to apply. Using ECCE 62% limestone increases the cost/ac from $55 for the ECCE 100% limestone to $80.50 when using the ECCE 62% material because 1.61 times more of the ECCE 62% limestone must be applied to get the recommended rate of ELM put on the soil.

Applying 62% limestone increases the liming cost by $25.50/ac. This is a significant cost increase that can be avoided by using a limestone supplier who is willing to spread the ECCE 100% material.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Good afternoon my Hay Talk friends! Thanks for all the great information! I've learned a ton! Well, as typical Texas weather, may have to set out some garden hoses!!

Where's the rain??? Lol! More likely to get burned, than wet!!

Have a safe week ahead!

Mark


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Calm before the storm I'm afraid. Guess we'll see.

Cleaned out the local TSC on insulators and some other stuff for the electric fencing today. (That didn't take long considering how ill-stocked the average TSC is) After church and a nice Chinese lunch, my brother and I got at it and got another 1/4 mile up and crossed the creek. Were almost to his house and the bottom dropped out. Went back to my place for awhile to let the rain pass, went back just before hard dark and got the last few insulators on and dead-ended the hot wire in the sorting pen. Went to the folks place in the middle of the farm and plugged in the charger and I've got 10k volts on the hot wire. Still got half the farm to do but that can wait til the weather improves. We're under flash flood alert already, and supposed to get between 3-5 inches, some local areas 8-10 inches in the next 2 days or so. Chance of rain til the end of the week.

If Keira has her softball game tomorrow night at Brazos I'll eat my hat. LOL

Later! OL J R


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## Timz (Nov 9, 2011)

Looks like you got your rain. Nearly 20 inches of rain over night in Waller. Never seen so much water here in Katy where I live.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Calm before the storm I'm afraid. Guess we'll see.
> 
> Cleaned out the local TSC on insulators and some other stuff for the electric fencing today. (That didn't take long considering how ill-stocked the average TSC is) After church and a nice Chinese lunch, my brother and I got at it and got another 1/4 mile up and crossed the creek. Were almost to his house and the bottom dropped out. Went back to my place for awhile to let the rain pass, went back just before hard dark and got the last few insulators on and dead-ended the hot wire in the sorting pen. Went to the folks place in the middle of the farm and plugged in the charger and I've got 10k volts on the hot wire. Still got half the farm to do but that can wait til the weather improves. We're under flash flood alert already, and supposed to get between 3-5 inches, some local areas 8-10 inches in the next 2 days or so. Chance of rain til the end of the week.
> 
> ...


A 10 is the highest I've seen mine register... Then made the mistake of trying to take a broken insulator off the wire with it still plugged in...


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Timz said:


> Looks like you got your rain. Nearly 20 inches of rain over night in Waller. Never seen so much water here in Katy where I live.


Yes, I'm at my Houston home watching Darwin awards, of people determined see if there sedans would double as a bass boat!!

Will be heading back tomorrow to collect my fertilize pellets that are now in Wharton!!


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

Hey Mark - I thought about you last night when the thunder and rain were hammering my place. I don't think the fertilizer is going to stop until it hits the Gulf! I had originally planned to have fertilizer spread on my place last Friday. After getting 2" of rain last Tuesday night I waved them off as I didn't want the truck to repeat JR's pictures in the Wall of Shame.

We got somewhere around 8"+ in Brenham/Burton last night. The rain cut 290 in Waller this morning so I didn't drive in to my real job in Houston today.

The Darwin awards on the news channels are amazing. Have you seen the one of the Fiat on the Allen Pkwy that's slowly been going under since the driver turned around into a construction zone and got stuck? Absolutely nuts.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Timz said:


> Looks like you got your rain. Nearly 20 inches of rain over night in Waller. Never seen so much water here in Katy where I live.


About 1968, I saw water flowing between corn rows on the (at that time) Charlie Frey farm in the Waller vicinity north of Katy. With so much rain, watch for severe manganese toxicity in corn if the soil pH is 5.2 or lower. Strong soil acidity exacerbated by saturated soil conditions greatly increases solubility of manganese.


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## Timz (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah that Fiat electrical system is going nuts. Windows went down lights turned on it's own. Should be good deal at CarMax a couple of months from now. Just talked to my neighbor in Schulenburg. 10 inch gauge is full. Says my property value has gone up because I'm now waterfront.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Well friends,

Looks like I'm good with the fertilizer! Neighbor just texted me 4 inch total! Something about the place, I've seen rain coming on radar for years and then splits last second to Eagle Lake and Rosenberg!

Probably the same reason oil flows out of the ground 2 miles north of me! A lot of rich people there! Apparently I'm on the Orchard rock dome according to my Aggie Geologist brother!

Houston drivers!! Unbelievable, the guy in the heights video where the news guy has to tell the guy to get out of the car and swim!! Soon after the car sinks!!


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

506 said:


> Hey Mark - I thought about you last night when the thunder and rain were hammering my place. I don't think the fertilizer is going to stop until it hits the Gulf! I had originally planned to have fertilizer spread on my place last Friday. After getting 2" of rain last Tuesday night I waved them off as I didn't want the truck to repeat JR's pictures in the Wall of Shame.
> 
> We got somewhere around 8"+ in Brenham/Burton last night. The rain cut 290 in Waller this morning so I didn't drive in to my real job in Houston today.
> 
> The Darwin awards on the news channels are amazing. Have you seen the one of the Fiat on the Allen Pkwy that's slowly been going under since the driver turned around into a construction zone and got stuck? Absolutely nuts.


Yes, and the 18 wheeler who made it through a flooded underpass with water flowing out of his exhaust pipe!!


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## Timz (Nov 9, 2011)

You'll make some serious hay now. I didn't do my final cut last year because my neighbor convinced me it would improve the root system. I'm new to the hay business so I'm always asking the locals. Had a bunch of sand burrs and dandy lions which I haven't had since sprigging 3 years ago. I fertilized the field, but it took 30 days for the coop to come spray the weeds. I had Pastora put on the field. Now I have just a big mess with dead weeds and a muddy field. Hopefully I'll get it cleaned out soon.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

My place is in the green are between Colunbus and Richmond. Feeling ????????????


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

glasswrongsize said:


> As for "quick lime" or "pelletized lime". That is what it is called here for lime that will raise PH quickly (and therefore will leave quickly) 100 lbs per acre would probably tide you over until the regular lime has time to work.
> 
> 73, Mark





vhaby said:


> Once again, soil pH does not go down faster when corrected by using fine limestone. The opposite is true because finer limestone raises soil pH faster and to a higher level than does the same amount of a coarser limestone. Since the finer limestone raises pH to a higher level, it takes linger for that higher pH to come back down.


Ok, I'm as lost as last year's Easter eggs!!

As is obvious, I either misunderstand pelletized/quick lime's effects or I understand and misspoke?

I was told by local fertilizer joint (my ph is low- 5.4) that I could apply 100 lb per acre of pelletized lime along with the incorporated 3 ton per acre of "ag lime". I was told that the pelletized lime would give the ground a ph boost until the regular lime began to "take effect".
Don't get me wrong, I also asked them the screening size of the lime and they stared at me like a cow looking at a new gate and said that "it's just lime"... so, no idea of how much passes thru a 100 mesh screen etc... It's over my head, but would not think it should be over theirs.

I do realize (do to vhaby's previous explanation) that the pelletized lime or quick lime is merely finer lime which will raise PH quicker? Larger lime will have slower to almost no effect on PH in a reasonable timeframe. ...at least that's what I THINK I understand?

Constantly, lime is required here to attempt to reach/maintain an acceptable PH level, but neglected soil can be amended quicker (in a pinch) by applying quick lime and "regular" lime.

Now my assumption that pelletized lime will react faster and "last" a less amount of time...
Is it because the pelletized lime is different that ag lime? (I didn't THINK it was any different -other than size- but I don't know c'mere from sic'em)

Or is because pelletized lime is usually only applied at 100-200 lbs per acre whereas ag lime is 2-3 ton per acre? Therefore, the 100-200 pounds of lime doesn't "last" as long because it is depleted faster due to its low volume?

In my neck of the woods, those are the choices: either ag lime (tons per acre with a year or so for any noticeable reaction time) or pelletized/quick (pounds per acre with a closer-to-immediate reaction time) lime.

Sorry for the stupid questions, but I would have to gain 30 IQ points to be considered dumb.

73, Mark


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> A 10 is the highest I've seen mine register... Then made the mistake of trying to take a broken insulator off the wire with it still plugged in...


Well, a few years ago I got the biggest fence charger I could get, when I was in Oklahoma. It's rated for like 120 miles of fence and I only have about 1.5 miles, but I wanted a HOT charger!

Looks like I got my wish-- it lit me up this evening when I was installing one of those "clip on fence lights" that blink to show it's hot. I know I didn't touch the wire, but considering I was standing on sopping wet ground, that was probably enough LOL Didn't really hurt, just surprised me, so I KNOW I didn't get a full shock.

We ended up with 3.75 inches here when I dumped the guage just before dark. We just got some more, though, probably another quarter inch or close to it, and it was thundering. Looked at the radar and there's a line over from northeast of Edna up to around Altair and it's heading this way. Just looked at the radar again and it seems like everything south of 59 is petering out. The strongest cell is moving past the north side of El Campo now, or pretty soon. It's stretching up from there to Katy basically so guess you guys are getting wet again.

Pops said they got about 4.5 inches in Shiner. Ponds full and flowing out the overflow, down to the little pond, it's full so it's sending water down the valley to the neighbor's to the north. Glad the ponds are full.

Hope yall come out all right.

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

SilentH said:


> My place is in the green are between Colunbus and Richmond. Feeling


Yep, lucky!

We're directly below the "c" in Richmond between that little yellow dot and the yellow blob above the "5". Looks like we got lucky too. We didn't really need any more than we got. Basically, IMHO, anything over about 4 inches in 24 hours just piles up and runs off anyway. With no pond here, I don't care to get enough to run off, because as flat as it is here, it usually doesn't have anywhere to go anytime soon.

Lot of crops around here with VERY wet feet. Saw some seedling cotton completely under water. If it goes away in the next 24 hours, it should be alright.

Later! OL J R


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> I rented one a few years ago and didn't really see much difference. From what I've read out of A&M Extension studies, they don't really show any consistent benefits to aeration. Note I said "consistent" not "NO benefits". Hard to figure if it's gonna pay or not.
> 
> It did a good job of aerating, but it wasn't exactly cheap and took a lot of fuel to pull it.
> 
> Later! OL J R


Well JR,

Your welcome to come borrow mine! I'm a huge believer in aeration, just finally had the time to use it! I do know the 4" that hit me last week soaked in better because of the aeration and of course the fertilizer as well... I'm in between Tavener, Orchard, Wallis and East Bernard, or just ask an Aggie in East Bernard where the longhorn ranch is... Lol


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