# General Haymaking Questions



## killingtime (Mar 17, 2010)

Hello to all! I'm new here, I just joined the site the other night. Looks like alot of good information. I've been around hay operations my whole life, but I recently decided to put up some of my own hay and I have a few questions. First let me say I'm in central North Carolina and most of my hay is fescue.

Now I'll be mowing with a conditioner and making some small square bales and some 4x4 round bales.

My questions are mainly on raking. I've got an old John Deere 350 bar rake that is 3pt mounted and I'm just not sure I'm getting it adjusted right. To get the tires of the rake to be on the ground and the teeth set right, my top link has to be extended waaayy out. Doing that I can barely raise the rake at all with the lift because the top link is out so far. How high do I want the teeth of the rake to be off the ground while raking? The teeth also want to dig into the ground when I go over a hill or down in a dip.

Also how do most of you guys/gals start when raking? Some people i know start going in circles around the outside until they get to the middle and some people start in the middle and work out and some people do straight lines? Which is the preferred method?

One other thing. Is knowing when the hay is dry enough to bale just an aquirred skill? Everyone I've ever known that made hay never had on of the electronic moisture meters, they just "knew" when the hay was cured enough. Unfortanely for me though, I'm not that skilled as of yet.

Thanks.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

First off one of the rakes I use is a New Holland 3 pt hitch roll bar rake. and yes something is not right with the fully extended top link and things being as you describe. If you do not have one get an owner manual for the machinery you have. Never buy a machine that you can not get an owners manual for. In fact I usually buy an owners manual before I buy a machine. 
Most people have the mistaken idea that a roll bar rake is so simple a cave man could run one. They are the simplest rake to use, available now, but they do require some knowledge on how to set them up.

As for raking, rule one is do your raking in the morning not during the heat of the day. Some people think you do not loose leaves raking grass hay, but the truth is leaf lose can be greater with grass than with a clover.

Using a mower conditioner leave the hay in as wide a swath as your machine will allow. Use every inch of ground to expose as much hay as possible to the direct rays of the sun.

The real purpose for raking is to position the hay for the most efficient use of the baler. Not to flip the bottom up every day until the hay is finally dry enough to bale. The hay will eventually be cured but you will have a rope for a windrow.

So you take into consideration you baler and how you can most efficiently bale your hay. If running in circles with lots of cross windrows on each end. Usually when a field is raked this way they corners are raked out also, which requires some in efficient baler usage. 
When I used a ground drive pull type roll bar rake I hooked the hitch to a bar between the lift arms. This gave me the ability to make minor adjustments on the rake to keep from plowing the ground. Then I had a hydraulic cylinder to pick up the basket. Between the two controls I could pick up the basket high enough to clear most windrows. Remember it cost a forth as much to rake as it does to bale, so if need be spend some extra time ( $ ) raking and save some time ( expense ) baling. 
So I plan the mowing with the baler in mind and I rake with the baler in mind. I want as little dead head running as possible. I may have two cross windrows on the each end and the rest is long windrows. (When Possible Anyway)

There are a number of ways to determine if the hay is cured enough to bale, Usually a lot of trial and ERROR is involved in the learning process.

The usual method is to use your finger nail and scrape the skin of a stem. If you can peel up some skin it is not ready to bale yet. If you can not peel any skin it is probably dry enough to bale, IF the humidity is low enough.

Hay with the humidity, down next to the windrow, at 90% the hay will be at least 40% Moisture and fewer leaves will be lost raking.
Cured Hay with the humidity, still down next to the windrow at 65% humidity will be 18% to 20% bale moisture, ok for square baling. Let the humidity be closer to 60% fir Round Baling. 
If the humidity goes below 50%, maybe 55% RH, the hay will be too dry to bale & you will have excessive leaf shatter with loss of hay quality and loss of total yield.

Raking for Round Baling is different than for Small Sq. For round baling if you can have a M shaped windrow you will not have to use a weave pattern and can drive straight and have even bales. With a ^ shaped windrow you will have to weave to have an even shaped bale. This is not true for square baling.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

First off one of the rakes I use is a New Holland 3 pt hitch roll bar rake. and yes something is not right with the fully extended top link and things being as you describe. If you do not have one get an owner manual for the machinery you have. Never buy a machine that you can not get an owners manual for. In fact I usually buy an owners manual before I buy a machine. 
Most people have the mistaken idea that a roll bar rake is so simple a cave man could run one. They are the simplest rake to use, available now, but they do require some knowledge on how to set them up.

As for raking, rule one is do your raking in the morning not during the heat of the day. Some people think you do not loose leaves raking grass hay, but the truth is leaf lose can be greater with grass than with a clover.

Using a mower conditioner leave the hay in as wide a swath as your machine will allow. Use every inch of ground to expose as much hay as possible to the direct rays of the sun.

The real purpose for raking is to position the hay for the most efficient use of the baler. Not to flip the bottom up every day until the hay is finally dry enough to bale. The hay will eventually be cured but you will have a rope for a windrow.

So you take into consideration you baler and how you can most efficiently bale your hay. If running in circles with lots of cross windrows on each end. Usually when a field is raked this way they corners are raked out also, which requires some in efficient baler usage. 
When I used a ground drive pull type roll bar rake I hooked the hitch to a bar between the lift arms. This gave me the ability to make minor adjustments on the rake to keep from plowing the ground. Then I had a hydraulic cylinder to pick up the basket. Between the two controls I could pick up the basket high enough to clear most windrows. Remember it cost a forth as much to rake as it does to bale, so if need be spend some extra time ( $ ) raking and save some time ( expense ) baling. 
So I plan the mowing with the baler in mind and I rake with the baler in mind. I want as little dead head running as possible. I may have two cross windrows on the each end and the rest is long windrows. (When Possible Anyway)

There are a number of ways to determine if the hay is cured enough to bale, Usually a lot of trial and ERROR is involved in the learning process.

The usual method is to use your finger nail and scrape the skin of a stem. If you can peel up some skin it is not ready to bale yet. If you can not peel any skin it is probably dry enough to bale, IF the humidity is low enough.

Hay with the humidity, down next to the windrow, at 90% the hay will be at least 40% Moisture and fewer leaves will be lost raking.
Cured Hay with the humidity, still down next to the windrow at 65% humidity will be 18% to 20% bale moisture, ok for square baling. Let the humidity be closer to 60% fir Round Baling. 
If the humidity goes below 50%, maybe 55% RH, the hay will be too dry to bale & you will have excessive leaf shatter with loss of hay quality and loss of total yield.

Raking for Round Baling is different than for Small Sq. For round baling if you can have a M shaped windrow you will not have to use a weave pattern and can drive straight and have even bales. With a ^ shaped windrow you will have to weave to have an even shaped bale. This is not true for square baling.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Here is a good example of drying time and swath width, when the sun shines. 
For my use I look at 66% ground coverage up to a two ton/A cutting. 
Above a two ton/A cutting I use a tedder to spread the hay out to cover 100% of the available ground. 
I use a 9 ft disk conditioner for alfalfa and a 7 ft disk nower for bermuagrass. 
Wide open the disk conditioner will drop a 6 foot wide swath on the ground. Maximum with out a modification to the machine. Down close to a one ton yield I may close the doors a little and drop a 4.5 ft swath.

Swath 100% 66% 50% 25%

.9 T/A - 0.30" - 0.38" - 0.41" - 0.75"
1.1 T/A- 0.31" - 0.40" - 0.47" - 0.77"
1.25 T/A- 0.35" - 0.43" - 0.55" - 0.89"
1.5 T/A- 0.36" - 0.47" - 0.63" - 0.89"
1.7 T/A- 0.39" - 0.55" - 0.71" - 0.98"
2.1 T/A- 0.47" - 0.63" - 0.79" - 1.07"
2.3 T/A- 0.51" - - 0.67" - 0.83" - 1.13"
2.5 T/A- 0.55" - 0.71" - 0.87" - 1.20"
2.7 T/A 0.59" - 0.75" - 0.95" - 1.57"

You may not like the consept of getting a forecast Pan Evaporation and may feel uncomfortable using it. It works for me. I get my Weather Forecast from AWIS.com : Consulting, Data & Forecasts for Ag, Energy, Retail and Industry.

Regardless it is a good graphic way of seeing how the swath width effects drying time.
Something else. The drying the day of cutting is most important. You really want the hay to dry down to 48% moisture by dark. This will stop over night resperation and improve dry matter yield, as well as digestable energy.


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## killingtime (Mar 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the info Hay Wilson. I've ordered the manual for my rake so hopefully that will help whenever I get it. I am confused on a few things though. What moisture percentages should the hay be at when I beginning raking? And then what should it be before I start baling? I understand the fingernail trick but would that be a starting point for baling after it is raked or try that before raking? I'm not sure how to use the pan evaporation forecast. How do I use those numbers?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I've ordered the manual for my rake so hopefully that will help
I hope so, I am not familiar with the JD rake you have. I know the NH one I use on occasion is an orphan that never gained popularity. Still I can pick the basket up well above the level of the windrows, making it possible to do some enlightened raking for the baler.

I get it. I am confused on a few things though. What moisture percentages should the hay be at when I beginning raking? 
It is always difficult to give advise on these forms because the knowledge level of the targeted audience is not known. 
The danger is to over explain or under explain. 
The school solution for hay moisture & raking is the hay needs to above 40% moisture for the leaf shattering to be minimal. Another source tells me that when the humidity, at the windrow is above 90% RH the hay's moisture will be at least 40% moisture. If the hay is not fully cured the moisture will be higher.

A problem with the School Solution is it presumes the hay has a uniform 40% moisture. (This works if the humidity is there) BUT if the atmosphere is down to say 40% humidity, and the hay will test at 40% moisture, the leaves can be down below 20% moisture and the stems still be up around 60% moisture, averaging 40%. In this case raking will shatter most of the leaves off and changing the hay from a nice leafy product to a bunch of sticks. 
HERE during the haying season I need to be done raking by at least 9 am. I usually start raking at first light.

And then what should it be before I start baling? For sq baling it is supposed to be ok to bale at 18% hay moisture. In practice I can push my luck and bale when the on the go moisture tester is up to 20% hay moisture. These bales will be the ones picked up last & they end up on top of the stack or on the outside of the stack, where the air can get to the hay. 
This happens when the hay is already cured, and the humidity down at the windrow is at or below 65% RH. 
Here this occurs usually between 10 am and noon. 
For Round baling the hay is supposed to be in the 16% moisture range. This is usually when the humidity, again at the windrow is near 60% RH. 
I emphasize humidity next to the windrow. HERE it is not uncommon for the ambient air to be at 50% and the windrow still to be wet with the overnight dew. (The book talks about the humidity inside the windrow but that is a little more difficult to determine. I use a little tool called the Kestrel hand held weather station. I bought mine from Gimpler's Catalog.

Regardless of type of bale when the hay's moisture more of the leave are lost. With a RB even more leaves are lost and with a RB String wrap a whole lot of leaves are lost in the 12% moisture range. 
HERE we have maybe 3 hours of baling, usually only two hours to get the baling done.

It is not uncommon for a custom operator to pull into a hay field with a rake just after his noon meal. When the hay is raked then he starts baling. This way maybe a third of the leaves are lost in raking and another third are lost in baling. The result is fewer bales of lower quality hay.

Here with our high angle on the sun if the hay is laid out flat, and finished cutting by 3 pm DST enough of the moisture will be cooked out of the hay to stop respiration and stop the over night loss of dry matter and total energy. 
Here is where the little chart I built comes in. This chart was picked off from a graph published by Dan Undersander at Wisconsin. His graph was put together to illustrate the effect of a wide swath and how it is related time to cure for different yields. For a presentation it was very effective. I used it in a way it was not designed for. I used it to build the chart.

So lets assume a yield of 60 (55 lb) bales/A or 1.7 T/A.
If I dropped the hay in a windrow it will require 0.98" of accumulated pan evaporation for the hay to cure to 20%. 
If using my 9 ft mower conditioner, and drop a the maximum width swath (6 feet wide) that is 66% width and will need 0.55" of pan evaporation. 
Assuming 0.25" evaporation a day, and using half of a day or 0.12" on day one, and 0.25" the second day. This will have the hay cured down close to 30% moisture. 
The morning of the third day I will rake the hay. Below 30% moisture direct sunlight on the hay is less important and I still have some evaporation room to wiggle. 
That last 10% moisture will take place during the third day. That evening after supper I check the hay for the finger nail test. If it passes I will bale when the humidity is down to 65% at the windrow.

The difficulty comes with knowing what the pan evaporation is forecast to be. This information is one of the things I pay good money to AWIS (Agricultural Weather Information Service) for.

As you can see if I were expecting 2.5 T yield for the cutting I would follow the mower with the tedder to get 100% of the ground covered by the hay, for the same curing time. 
If with the 2.5 T yield dropping the hay in a windrow will require 1.20" of evaporation, & which works out to 5 full days of curing, & baling on the sixth day. We probably will have to rake two or more times to have even drying.

I'm not sure how to use the pan evaporation forecast. How do I use those numbers? 
Unfortunately it is not all that simple to find the pan evaporation for your location. Some Weather Services can provide an average figure for a 100 mile diameter circle area. This is what AWIS provides. 
Possibly your state provides the information for you through the extension service. 
Real close measurement is not important, as there are so many variables.

Summer evaporation, here, is usually 0.50" per day. 
AWIS does provide some free information at AWIS.com : Consulting, Data & Forecasts for Ag, Energy, Retail and Industry based on your zip code. Problem is that forecast has much larger foot print to average over. at least in Theory your ZIP code is centered in the forecasted circle. 
Pan Evaporation(inches) .22 .27 .16

What I use only has a 2 day forecast, so I extend the second days forecast out to 5 or more days. 
Pan Evaporation (Inches) 0.22 0.27


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## killingtime (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok. That makes it alot clearer. Thanks for all the information. Hopefully with a little luck I can make some decent hay this year. I'm gonna look into suscribing to AWIS and probably gonna buy me a moisture tester too.


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## killingtime (Mar 17, 2010)

One other question while I'm thinking about it. How soon after a rain can I mow hay? The next day? I know it will depend on the amount of rainfall, but what's a general rule?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Just depends.

If it's been very dry to start with and you get half a inch, prolly can mow right after the rain.

If it's been very dry and you get a inch prolly can do the same.

If it's a year like last year and you seen animals starting to gather two by two a day or so before, that inch of rain could be the final straw and get your tractor buried up to the axles.

I've mowed right thru the rain before when it was going to be chopped for silage.

If your using a sickle mower, might want to wait for things to dry out after the rain to reduce plugging and slugging while a discbine is pretty much unstoppable regardless of the conditions.

In a nutshell, just depends.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Our learned friends tell us if today is the optimal day to mow and it is raining, mow anyway. 
Problem is not all of these pendent's are on clay soils. Here it can take up to 5 days before the ground is dry enough not to pick up mud, or cut tracks. 
I have a friend on sandy soil who can mow right after a 4" rain with no problem.

The thing to remember is you really want the hay to cure down to 48% moisture the day it is cut. To do that requires sunshine. (Exception being in the Desert West where the humidity is so low they do not need sunshine to cure hay.) What you really want is for the hay to go into the first night with the hay dry enough to be dead. If the plant cells are still alive, they will burn energy all night long and the hay will have less total mass as well as less net energy.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Pretty much what I get to deal with here Wilson. The fields around the home farm are clay. I started first cutting last year on the 21st of May. The last field made was cut on the fourth of July and the rear tires on the tractor were still sinking in as deep as the bars.

All the sandy fields in town can be mown whenever regardless of how much rain has fallen. All except one that is, it has quicksand in a corner and years ago before we no-tilled and it was still worked for row crops, you pretty much kept your left foot hovering above the clutch pedal as if you had one tire slip half a turn it'd be enough to bury the tractor.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've had two very dry spells in the last ten years or so that got so dry, the hay on the sand got maybe 4-6 inches of regrowth after a cutting, then went dormant from the lack of water. The hay fields around the home farm on the clay while they had a reduced yield kept growing right thru the summer.

So as much as I don't like having hay fields on the clay, in some years it does pay.


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