# hydraulic drive rakes



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Not sure if I understand how they work. If the hydraulic drive runs off remotes, does the operator have to hold the remote open the whole time the rake is on? Seems awkward.
Or am I missing something?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Most modern tractors if running a hydraulic motor the lever will lock in position on it's own.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think one of my remotes has a detent that locks when engaged, but I'll check tomorrow. Thanks.
Are the hydraulic rakes bad/good? I guess it's a little easier to hook up 2 hydraulic lines than a PTO shaft, maybe quieter & smoother, too?


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

I can tell you one thing for certain, JD 30 an 40 series tractors do not like to rune hydraulic motors. The charge pump in the transmission will not keep up with the main pump if the return oil is dumped into the rear end housing to reduce heat, and if you return into the outlets like normal, the oil gets hot enough to fry an egg on the transmission housing. It is a problem for the early closed center JDs, what I've done to solve this on loaders and tractors running hyd motors is to silver solder a fitting to return free flow return oil into the steel supply/suction pipe that goes to the front pump. The only reason I mention any of this is your username, I assume this is the tractor you are using.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh I understand what you mean. No, my username is JD3430 because I ran a 3430 haybine way back in the late 80's and liked it. haha. 
I'm running a 70HP Kubota tractor at the present and figured it would have enough to run the rake. Have 2 sets of typical remotes out back. 
I guess I didn't think the remotes had enough push to run a 9' hydraulic rake and wasn't sure if they were self cancelling or could run a rake constantly. I will check the remotes this morning after I get hay down for these Irish Dexters.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

We run a hydralic drive Vermeer R23 with an IH 686. Call us ******* if you will but we use a bungee cord to hold the hyd lever open as the drive pressure on the rake can overcome the detent. And yes, even on this open center system the oil will get very hot after 3-4 hours of rakeing, although it does not seem to be a problem as this same tractor has run the same rake for about 10 years now.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Just got back from loading hay into feeder. Both my remotes have detents that lock them into place. Although with no rear implement hooked up, they snapped back immediately. 
Little concerned about oil temps because the Kubota M's tend to get hot down there with nothing hooked to them. 
Hope I'm not making a mistake.....was going to buy the rake & Kuhn tedder today.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> Call us ******* if you will but we use a bungee cord to hold the hyd lever open as the drive pressure on the rake can overcome the detent.


You must have relatives in Tennessee!! LOL ;0)

Regards, Mike


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

There are a few things to consider here. First flow rate required, single hyd rake approx 4 to 4 1/2 gpm max. Next, hyd oil capacity of your tractor. Min for continuous raking is flowrate x 2.5 or approx 12 gallons of oil in this case. Hyd motors heat up oil quickly so watch your oil temp. If your tractors oil reserve is marginal and it does not have a hyd temp guage you may want to install one.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The manual states the transmission case has a capacity of 59 quarts or 14.75 gallons of Kubota UDT fluid.
Also says pump capacity is 11 gallons/minute. System pressure is 19.1 MPa


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

carcajou said:


> Hyd motors heat up oil quickly so watch your oil temp. If you tractors oil reserve is marginal and it does not have a hyd temp guage you may want to install one.


An idiot light can also be added.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

The biggest improvemnet you can make for the least $ is to add a free flow return coupler. Just plumb in a hydraulic coupler into the case of the rear end, this will reduce the backpressure and make your hydraulic system's pressure do all of the work it was made to, not overcome 500psi or so backpressure and then do the work. This is also better for the motors.
Before doing this you want to be sure how the tractor's hydraulic cooler is connected into the system, none of this is worth bypassing the cooler. Sometimes the brake circuit, or some other low pressure function is tied in series to the cooler, only a portion to the oil is cooled, not the full flow.
I'm not sure how Kubota does it, so you will want to look into how things work first.


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## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

Many have a PTO driven pump, especially for two rakes.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Crap, I don't know what to do now. Looks like a good rake. Wish it was PTO driven.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Crap, I don't know what to do now. Looks like a good rake. Wish it was PTO driven.


 I think what covenanthay was talking about is something like this.. PTO. Hydraulic Tractor Pumps $ 269.00

Don't know anything about them, but if you like the rake this might be worth checking out.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't think my remotes will have any problem powering the rake. More concerned with overheating fluid. Kind of wonder why Deere would make it if it overheated fluid and caused problems in the first place, but maybe it works perfectly fine....
Here's the rake I'm contemplating: JOHN DEERE 74 Rakes/Tedders For Sale At TractorHouse.com


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## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

Miller Pro hydraulic drive rakes come with a PTO pump but what urednecku refers to would work if sized right


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

If using a PTO pump, you will have to install a reservoil for the oil, properly sized to the pump to allow the oil to cool or you are right back to where you started from.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

This one runs off remotes as far as I can tell.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

For a single rake, I'm not too sure what the hydraulic drive buys you. Why not just look for a ground drive rake. When doubling back on a windrow, I want the rake to slow way down so I can turn tighter.


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## stickney farm (Jan 17, 2011)

the single hydro drive rake is for high moisture stuff like when your chopping or making high moisture wrapped round or square bales. ground driven rakes tend to stall out when in a heavy high moisture crop.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I was also thinking I could reverse the rake if it gets stuck.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I took a look at the link you listed. I would not worry about overheating oil. The Vermeer twinrake that we pull is more than double of that JD unit and we have had no problems. I would think that you will achieve maximum rake revolutions with your tractor at about half speed. Any engine speed over that, unless you need ground drive power, is not needed and will promote heating of the oil. Our Vermeer has two hyd motors to drive it, and on the IH 686 it needs only about 1300 rpm on the engine to get the most raking speed. Even on a newer tractor with more flow I have seen no difference.



> I was also thinking I could reverse the rake if it gets stuck.


This may not work if the rake hydraulics have an anti-reverse bypass. Vermeer does.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for all the helpful advice! You don't know how much it has helped me.
I decided to buy the JD 74 hydraulic drive rake. Should be here tomorrow or early next week. Looks like a nice rake.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Just wanted to let you all know the rake worked out pretty good. 
At first it was improperly adjusted and I bent 10-15 teeth. Took them off, straightened them out and re-installed them. Couple height adjustments later and I was raking hay. One thing I didn't like is I felt I was still leaving too much hay on the ground. If I lower it more= bent teeth. If I raise= too much hay left laying. 
I think there's one more adjustment up front. A large lever that raises/lowers the front of the rake. I am going to try this one out and see if it helps.

Oh, and I didn't notice that it overheated the oil. I kept grabbing the hydraulic lines and they only felt warm-no where near hot. So that was a relief.


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