# Alfalfa Seed Recommendations



## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

Newbie here,

I'm going to be seeding 300 acres of new crop alfalfa next fall. The land is currently a very old stand of alfalfa and I believe brome grass. Probably only 10-15 percent alfalfa left in the stand. I'm going to take this years crop off and then burn it all down with roundup and once it's safe till it up and seed new alfalfa. I've never raised alfalfa in ND before. Only southern MN. I'm totally unfamiliar with the seed available now. This soil is a pretty hard soil. I would classify it as silty loam. There are some areas of gravel under the top soil however. I have read a couple studies from the Univ. of ND research dept. The studies showed that 8lbs per acre yielded their best results vs. all other seed rates up to 28 lbs I believe and as low as 5 lbs. So 8lb seems to be the magic number. What I'm concerned with is the actual seed. Hay growers here on unirrigated land generally take one cutting. But they let the alfalfa go way past the full bloom stage. Don't bale tell into august. I think two cuttings is certainly possible taking the alfalfa at bud or up to 10% bloom. So any thoughts on that would be great. My biggest concern is what would be the best seed to go with in a colder growing region that gets a modest amount of rainfall and in that type of soil.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I live in the North central part of ND. Most years you can get at least 3 cuttings of alfalfa. Some dairy guys in my area that cut right at bud stage will get 4 cuttings. As dry as it was here this year our 2nd and 3 rd cuttings were almost as good of yield as our 1st cutting. Just didn't get the rain in May to get a really good first cut.

The variety I like the best is Algonquin. Yields well in our sandy soils and has great winter hardiness.

I haven't tried many other varietys but the few I have just don't seem to the the stand life that Algonquin does.

I think I've read the same study on planting rates. I usually try to get 10 to 12lbs per acre for a pure stand of alfalfa. I did some this year mixed with Courtney tall fesque and went 10lbs of alfalfa and 5 of tall fesque. It looks like its going to be a pretty thick stand. I do have a few sandy hilltops that I might have to try and seed and thicken up. Just got to hot and dry that I think some of those seedlings might have died but I'll wait and see what it looks like this year.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Very good product, but some of it can be spendy as well...

http://www.lathamseeds.com/products/alfalfa/alfalfa-lineup/


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

Don't you guys have toxic problems sewing right behind the old crop ? I have always left the field in another crop for at least a year to make sure all the old alfalfa roots are dead .


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

If there is only 10-15% alfalfa left I'm not sure if you will have toxicity problems or not. Probably some. I'm not sure 8 lbs is enough. I always go 15-20lbs. I guess maybe if it was uncoated. If 8 lbs is enough from that study you read I would go with the exact seed they used for the study. The next question is are you going to go with roundup ready or not?


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

I don't know about your area, but here, we need to allow 6 full weeks of growth after our last cutting and before the killing frost. Not allowing enough time for regrowth and energy storage for the winter can seriously set back the following year's yield. Don't ask how I learned about that lesson.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

Fossil02818 said:


> I don't know about your area, but here, we need to allow 6 full weeks of growth after our last cutting and before the killing frost. Not allowing enough time for regrowth and energy storage for the winter can seriously set back the following year's yield. Don't ask how I learned about that lesson.


that was also a lingering question in my mind.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

Teslan said:


> If there is only 10-15% alfalfa left I'm not sure if you will have toxicity problems or not. Probably some. I'm not sure 8 lbs is enough. I always go 15-20lbs. I guess maybe if it was uncoated. If 8 lbs is enough from that study you read I would go with the exact seed they used for the study. The next question is are you going to go with roundup ready or not?


I'm planning to burn it down with roundup to kill the roots before I work it up. I'm not sure how long it takes to completely kill the roots. Between waiting for that and allowing six weeks of growth before hard frost I may be looking at one cutting anyway. Although I am considering doing just half of the acreage in case things to awry lol


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

I haven't been thinking roundup ready due to cost


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

IHCman said:


> I live in the North central part of ND. Most years you can get at least 3 cuttings of alfalfa. Some dairy guys in my area that cut right at bud stage will get 4 cuttings. As dry as it was here this year our 2nd and 3 rd cuttings were almost as good of yield as our 1st cutting. Just didn't get the rain in May to get a really good first cut.
> 
> The variety I like the best is Algonquin. Yields well in our sandy soils and has great winter hardiness.
> 
> ...


where here is the best place to buy Algonquin and what's the price? thanks


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Really agree with what IHCman said. If you have gravel underneath you want a tap root variety. As for seeding 8 lbs/acre i think that is much to light for a pure stand even if the seed is 100 % germ and vigor which is near impossible to find. 11-12 lbs min . Real hard to beat Algonquin if you can source it. As for Roundup, it won't kill out the alfalfa, and 2,4-D won't either. You may end up with toxicity issues and then upping the rate of seed per acre will help. Tilling it up after the 1st cutting will compound things too as available moisture and sod clumping may affect your seedbed germination. Unless you have great seedbed moisture and a decently fine seedbed it would be unwise to seed less then 15 lbs to the acre.

Myself i would spray it prior to taking the 1st cut off, beats waiting for regrowth.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

carcajou said:


> Really agree with what IHCman said. If you have gravel underneath you want a tap root variety. As for seeding 8 lbs/acre i think that is much to light for a pure stand even if the seed is 100 % germ and vigor which is near impossible to find. 11-12 lbs min . Real hard to beat Algonquin if you can source it. As for Roundup, it won't kill out the alfalfa, and 2,4-D won't either. You may end up with toxicity issues and then upping the rate of seed per acre will help. Tilling it up after the 1st cutting will compound things too as available moisture and sod clumping may affect your seedbed germination. Unless you have great seedbed moisture and a decently fine seedbed it would be unwise to seed less then 15 lbs to the acre.
> 
> Myself i would spray it prior to taking the 1st cut off, beats waiting for regrowth.


what do you mean by spraying it prior to taking the 1st cut off?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Go in with a high clearance sprayer at half gallon roundup per acre about 3 days before cutting.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

chadk66 said:


> where here is the best place to buy Algonquin and what's the price? thanks


 I bought some from CHS Sunprairie in Minot about 7 years ago. I'm sure they still sell it. They'd probably have the best price to.

Lately I've been buying mine from a local dairy guy that does a little seed sales. $3.65 per lb is what he charged me this last spring. PAY-DAK seed in Towner.

quick internet search turned up this company http://www.agassizseed.com/sales-rep-finderlooks like they have a few reps that cover the state and they sell Algonquin.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

IHCman said:


> I bought some from CHS Sunprairie in Minot about 7 years ago. I'm sure they still sell it. They'd probably have the best price to.
> 
> Lately I've been buying mine from a local dairy guy that does a little seed sales. $3.65 per lb is what he charged me this last spring. PAY-DAK seed in Towner.
> 
> quick internet search turned up this company http://www.agassizseed.com/sales-rep-finderlooks like they have a few reps that cover the state and they sell Algonquin.


Is that certified or common seed?


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

carcajou said:


> Is that certified or common seed?


pretty sure it was certified.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

carcajou said:


> Go in with a high clearance sprayer at half gallon roundup per acre about 3 days before cutting.


that would be spendy I would think?


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

IHCman said:


> I bought some from CHS Sunprairie in Minot about 7 years ago. I'm sure they still sell it. They'd probably have the best price to.
> 
> Lately I've been buying mine from a local dairy guy that does a little seed sales. $3.65 per lb is what he charged me this last spring. PAY-DAK seed in Towner.
> 
> quick internet search turned up this company http://www.agassizseed.com/sales-rep-finderlooks like they have a few reps that cover the state and they sell Algonquin.


awesome thanks. So would you work up in fall and seed or wait till spring? Broadcast the seed?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It is different in different areas, but I can tell you where I farm I have a 30 acre tract that I rent and I tried what you're proposing here. I killed it off in about the same manner I did not use tillage and I did not get a good crop . I put it in corn this year and next year I'll try Alfalfa again. I will never waste of time here to run back to back alfalfa


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm looking at doing the same thing on a stand that the alfalfa has thinned out and I have reseeded grass into.The last time I did this I sprayed it off after 2 nd cutting and waited for some re growth around Aug 1 and reseed in the spring.I dissed it and then dug it a couple times but the grass roots made it hard to make a smooth field.Looking back I should of disked another time.

So on this next field I'm thinking to spray before 1 st cut like carcajou said above around June 1 and then seed about Aug 1 with a alfalfa grass mix.

In my case I can not plant annual crops on these 2 fields otherwise I would rotate with corn and soybeans.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

I talked with a farmer in the area that worked up an older alfalfa field like I am planning to do. He said he should have sprayed it with roundup because it didn't work up well due to the root structure. He thinks doing that would have made for a far better tillage. So that's my line of thinking on it. My original plan was, and I still may do this, was to spray it down late fall and in the spring till it up and plant barley and alfalfa at the same time. Take the barley off green and sell those bales and then have the alfalfa coming in already for the next season. My brother in-law ranches and that's what he figured I should do. But I'm exploring all options on this. I hate to loose a whole season of horse hay. Could do half one year and half the next. That would save me if the plan didn't work out lol


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

chadk66 said:


> But I'm exploring all options on this. I hate to loose a whole season of horse hay. Could do half one year and half the next. That would save me if the plan didn't work out lol


That sounds like a reasonable plan on the half and half.

Regards, Mike


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Usually what I like to do when a stand is getting thin, is to hay it off, wait for some regrowth, spray with roundup and lv4 in August or September, after its good and dead then I disk it twice with an offset disk that fall. The following spring disk it twice more and if it needs it maybe a pass with a cultivator or chisel plow. We have sandy soil so I do like to leave it a little soddy and chuncky so it doesn't blow. I Usually will do 2 years of corn on it before seeding it to alfalfa to allow the sod and roots to rot away and to help clean up any weeds, grasses, and leftover alfalfa. I Like to seed oats as a nurse crop with my alfalfa and then hay the oats off. Usually seed around the 15th of May depending upon the year. I've never tried to seed alfalfa back into a field like that the next year as I always worried about toxicity issues from the old stand.

Have seeded a lot of alfalfa with IH 620 drills with alfalfa boxes on them which is basically like broadcasting it. Lately been having a neighbor custom seed it with his JD no till air drill which works really well. One time I did have the local co op spread my alfalfa with my fertilizer. I had disked that field lightly, then they spread it, then I drilled oats into it, and finally I rolled it with land roller. I had 40 acre field that time that I was really happy with but the other 65 acre field they had issues with the second spreader after the first one broke down and I didn't get as good of stand on half that field. I won't say broadcasting it won't work because it will, but I prefer to have it drilled in.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

Another way that I'm contemplating is planting rye in the spring and actually combining it. Then bale the rye straw. Rye straw is the best straw for horses and that's my market. IHCman what kind of yield could a person expect with Rye in western ND?


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

chadk66 said:


> Another way that I'm contemplating is planting rye in the spring and actually combining it. Then bale the rye straw. Rye straw is the best straw for horses and that's my market. IHCman what kind of yield could a person expect with Rye in western ND?


I've never seeded rye so I wouldn't know. You might try your county extension agent, they'd be able to give you an answer to that.

I've always wanted to try winter rye and either make haylage or dry hay with it. I've talked with a few people that make haylage out of it and like the yield they get in tons from it. They'll usually cut it in early to mid June, then plant a second crop of millet behind it.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

IHCman said:


> I've never seeded rye so I wouldn't know. You might try your county extension agent, they'd be able to give you an answer to that.
> 
> I've always wanted to try winter rye and either make haylage or dry hay with it. I've talked with a few people that make haylage out of it and like the yield they get in tons from it. They'll usually cut it in early to mid June, then plant a second crop of millet behind it.


millet huh? I have zero knowledge of that lol. Can they get a crop out of it yet the same year?


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

chadk66 said:


> millet huh? I have zero knowledge of that lol. Can they get a crop out of it yet the same year?


yes you can get a crop out of millet in the same year. I've seen guys plant millet as late as the 4th of July and still get a crop of hay. Drought can stunt it, and July can be hot and dry at times so there is some risk.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

IHCman said:


> yes you can get a crop out of millet in the same year. I've seen guys plant millet as late as the 4th of July and still get a crop of hay. Drought can stunt it, and July can be hot and dry at times so there is some risk.


what's input an acre on it? is there a decent market for it? I imagine after pulling a crop off right before it will need some nutrient help?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

So have we decided what type of Alfalfa seed yet? I'm arguing with myself if I want to plant 25 acres in RR alfalfa or conventional. But then with conventional should I plant it with oats or annual rye grass. It is in a field with low weed seed bank. And flood irrigated coming out of ponds. So that means relatively low amount of weed seed coming with the water. It's in grass hay now. Or was. I disked it up and am planning to rip it. Probably going with Dairyland seed or WL seed.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

After looking at some seed tests the Dylan sounds like awesome stuff. There was an add a couple days ago on Bismanonline selling Dylon for $11/$12 a bushel. Seems like a decent price.


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## chadk66 (Nov 3, 2017)

sorry that was the Rye I was looking at. sucks getting old lol


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Teslan said:


> So have we decided what type of Alfalfa seed yet? I'm arguing with myself if I want to plant 25 acres in RR alfalfa or conventional. But then with conventional should I plant it with oats or annual rye grass. It is in a field with low weed seed bank. And flood irrigated coming out of ponds. So that means relatively low amount of weed seed coming with the water. It's in grass hay now. Or was. I disked it up and am planning to rip it. Probably going with Dairyland seed or WL seed.


I was having the discussion with my Agronomist just before Christmas about planting alfalfa with a cover crop, and he did not like planting it with a cover crop. His reasoning was that the alfalfa was competing for the same nutrients as the cover crop, so I am not sure what to do.

My experience with RR alfalfa is if you have a big problem with weeds then it is a good way to get rid of the weeds. We have a field that we are going to go back with RR this next spring. We have another field that we are going to go with the Italian Ryegrass again, well I think so. I was not real pleased with the tonnage we got off it last summer, but it did make excellent fall forage for the cows, so I am not real sure what we are going to plant.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> I was having the discussion with my Agronomist just before Christmas about planting alfalfa with a cover crop, and he did not like planting it with a cover crop. His reasoning was that the alfalfa was competing for the same nutrients as the cover crop, so I am not sure what to do.
> 
> My experience with RR alfalfa is if you have a big problem with weeds then it is a good way to get rid of the weeds. We have a field that we are going to go back with RR this next spring. We have another field that we are going to go with the Italian Ryegrass again, well I think so. I was not real pleased with the tonnage we got off it last summer, but it did make excellent fall forage for the cows, so I am not real sure what we are going to plant.


Before RR Alfalfa we always planted alfalfa with oats. We always seemed to have good stands. Planted with the sameness Great Plains drill we have now. Oats tend to attract rain at the wrong times for me so I'm hesitant on that.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Teslan said:


> So have we decided what type of Alfalfa seed yet? I'm arguing with myself if I want to plant 25 acres in RR alfalfa or conventional. But then with conventional should I plant it with oats or annual rye grass. It is in a field with low weed seed bank. And flood irrigated coming out of ponds. So that means relatively low amount of weed seed coming with the water. It's in grass hay now. Or was. I disked it up and am planning to rip it. Probably going with Dairyland seed or WL seed.


 I know my climate here is very different than yours but I was impressed with the Dairyland alfalfa I planted this past spring. It was a very tough and trying year for me growing and baling alfalfa due to the weather but I liked what I saw from the Dairyland alfalfa compared to the other varieties I have. Seemed to be finer stemmed, leafier, and more disease resistant than the others.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I know my climate here is very different than yours but I was impressed with the Dairyland alfalfa I planted this past spring. It was a very tough and trying year for me growing and baling alfalfa due to the weather but I liked what I saw from the Dairyland alfalfa compared to the other varieties I have. Seemed to be finer stemmed, leafier, and more disease resistant than the others.


For me Dairyland is slightly more expensive then WL. But I've planted WL the last couple times and while its ok I think I want to try something different. I find it interesting that the Dairyland website suggests planting Italian Ryegrass as a nurse crop for their alfalfa.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I have been planting America’s alfalfa and been happy with rr and conventional. I also planted some nexgrow rr I’m very happy with. I’m not a big wl fan since it’s pioneer seed. I have been useing a airflow to blow my seed on its working better than useing my jd455 drill. I just use my parma rollerharrow with the teeth down then turn on the pivot water very light to just get a light crust blow seed on then roll the seed in.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Teslan said:


> For me Dairyland is slightly more expensive then WL. But I've planted WL the last couple times and while its ok I think I want to try something different. I find it interesting that the Dairyland website suggests planting Italian Ryegrass as a nurse crop for their alfalfa.


 I planted the Dairyland hybriforce 3400. Their hybrid alfalfa varieties are a good bit more expensive than other conventional varieties. All of their seed is uncoated though so compared to other companies coated seed it's really not too bad when you look at price per pound of actual pure seed.

Interesting that they suggest using Italian ryegrass as a cover....here Italian ryegrass is considered a weed and more than a couple pounds would smother the alfalfa seedlings. I don't plant a cover crop with my alfalfa.


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