# Beware of Wet Hay



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Most know....but we always have new folks. From Purdue U.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/beware_of_wet_hay_NAA_University_News_Release/


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Great warning!

The article shows the picture of a hoop building loaded with hay. So, not only is high moisture when baling something that needs to be watched for, so is ventilation. When you get as much hay as is shown in the picture, heat can build up on the interior of the stack as well, meaning that it can act as a heat trap. And heat can lead to mold or fire.

I just restacked 200 RB's in my tarp building.

I laid them out for two weeks in the open, end to end, to let them go through their sweat, then I stacked them tight in an 8-7-6 configuration. (My bales are 5x5. If I was making 4' bales, I would stack the on end immediately, 4 high, with a small air gap between each stack.). Further, my tarp building is open only on one end thus restricting airflow through the building.

Some people hereabouts stack their RB's loosely to give them ventilation, but I prefer tight to keep the critters out as well as keeping a little more color, freshness and space utilization.

Just my thoughts.

Ralph


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I had a close call this year that I still cant figure out. Baled nice dry hay. Stacked it 3 high in the barn. Monitered temp for a week. Nothing over 95 deg. Good to go for horse hay. 3 weeks later started noticing wierd sour smell. Thought it was dads lawn mowing grass pile near the barn. I had a customer coming to pick up some horse hay. I took the thermometer to check a couple of the bales to make sure that were still good to go. Stuck in one, 170 deg!!! Holy crap! Whole stack of three high were 150+ deg. Only thing I can figure is a week before we had heavy rain and driving wind. Much have got some water through the roof on those bales...


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> I had a close call this year that I still cant figure out. Baled nice dry hay. Stacked it 3 high in the barn. Monitered temp for a week. Nothing over 95 deg. Good to go for horse hay. 3 weeks later started noticing wierd sour smell. Thought it was dads lawn mowing grass pile near the barn. I had a customer coming to pick up some horse hay. I took the thermometer to check a couple of the bales to make sure that were still good to go. Stuck in one, 170 deg!!! Holy crap! Whole stack of three high were 150+ deg. Only thing I can figure is a week before we had heavy rain and driving wind. Much have got some water through the roof on those bales...


Damn that's freakin scary. Stories like that make me lose sleep.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Yeah, no kidding. Dad claims I had some wet hay, but there is no way. Some of the field edge could have been a little tough, but not enought to have enough moisture to push three bales to 170 degrees.

The best thing to do is be in your barns on a regular basis. If your in your barns you will smell something going on. If you stick them in a far off barn and forget them, you are rollling the dice.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

PaMike said:


> Yeah, no kidding. Dad claims I had some wet hay, but there is no way. Some of the field edge could have been a little tough, but not enought to have enough moisture to push three bales to 170 degrees.
> 
> The best thing to do is be in your barns on a regular basis. If your in your barns you will smell something going on. If you stick them in a far off barn and forget them, you are rollling the dice.


I rolled some mixed og and fescue first cutting early enough for prime rolls. Was dry as a bone when I raked it but the rolls still heated. Probably went to 120-130. Did not want that for horse customers or I would never have heard the end of it. Had to sell it to get it out of the shed to a guy storing outside for cows.

Still have no clue why it heated-not all rolls made in that batch-maybe 2/3s and all did not heat the same amount. Still, you just can't take a chance.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

You would have to have a crazy roof leak to get enough moisture for that to happen if it's even possible. Moisture baled into a bale behaves so much differently that something that gets poured on afterward.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> You would have to have a crazy roof leak to get enough moisture for that to happen if it's even possible. Moisture baled into a bale behaves so much differently that something that gets poured on afterward.


Not following exactly what you are saying.

Hay that gets moisture on it even after it is baled will heat. If you have a hole in your roof, and water comes in on 2 year old hay, you can have a heating issue.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> Not following exactly what you are saying.
> Hay that gets moisture on it even after it is baled will heat. If you have a hole in your roof, and water comes in on 2 year old hay, you can have a heating issue.


I didnt think it worked that way. I leave some low quality stuff outside and it'll get rained on for months, but it won't heat. I even had bales in a flood and the water drained out of them and they were once again dry. 
The only stuff I see heat is hay that is baled GREEN, way before it should be baled. 
I could be wrong with a whopping 3 yrs experience here, but that's all ive ever seen.


----------



## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

If the aforementioned would be the case hay that is stacked outside would get so hot it would rot down in the first year. I've had hay that I stacked end to end and when I fed that winter they was as pretty (the ends) as the day I put them there


----------



## AndyL (Mar 9, 2013)

I tend to agree with JD and blue. I pulled some hay outta the barn last winter that had been leaked on.Other than the part that got wet, no problem.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Maybe I am wrong. Might be the first time...

I know moisture causes mold and mold releases/makes heat, but maybe its different.

I will have to do some google research in my spare time.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

There's a lot of difference in the affect of stem moisture(inside stem) vs atmosphere moisture(outside stem) when it comes to hay heating. I also believe rd baled hay stored correctly outside with no cover can have very little rain water absorption especially if covered with Netwrap.


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Round bales you have to watch even with perfect drying weather you can get some heating. I know we do and it is very surprising cause you wouldnt think they would. It mostly comes from the green cause my dad has baled till dark with the dew on and those bales were heavier and made dust but never heated. They put off an odd smell that you automatically know what it is when you smell it


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Well it comes down to this, there is a difference between dry hay and cured hay. Hay that just got dry enough to bale that day can still heat, hay that was bone dry the day before then baled the next morning with dew on will rarely heat. Dry hay is just that, 18% or a little lower, cured hay has become dry enough that all biological processes in the plant itself has stopped and won't start again. I've baled cured hay that the day before was so dry nothing would show a moisture reading the next day with 20-22% stem moisture and never had it heat.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So along those lines, I have a bunch of bales that, as usual, I had to bale up to avoid incoming rain. They were preserved and mostly 19-21%.
If I open a bale or take a handful out and so the twist test, its still a little tougher than I like it to be. 
I would consider this to be un-cured hay, correct? 
Also, it really doesn't meet the dry hay test, either as it was baled at as high as 21%.

If it didnt rain and I left that hay on the ground one more day, it would probably be brown (or pre washed)
I find its really hard to bale up when it's still green, so it looks nice, but not so green that its got to be treated, or in this case, kind of tough.
Making really good hay is very difficult. Most casual observers probably think its as easy as driving a tractor in straight lines over a field.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Well it comes down to this, there is a difference between dry hay and cured hay. Hay that just got dry enough to bale that day can still heat, hay that was bone dry the day before then baled the next morning with dew on will rarely heat. Dry hay is just that, 18% or a little lower, cured hay has become dry enough that all biological processes in the plant itself has stopped and won't start again. I've baled cured hay that the day before was so dry nothing would show a moisture reading the next day with 20-22% stem moisture and never had it heat.


That's why I stack my RB's outside for 2 weeks to let them go through the sweat before I stack them in my hay barn--I want ALL that biological processing to stop before I stack it!

Ralph


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> That's why I stack my RB's outside for 2 weeks to let them go through the sweat before I stack them in my hay barn--I want ALL that biological processing to stop before I stack it!
> 
> Ralph


I used to treat all my higher quality hay with acid to avoid the sweat in the first place. Didn't matter how dry it was either, all of it got treated.

I switched to Hayguard about the same time I installed the Circle C rollers in my discbine, for some reason it seems if it's 18% or under, it ain't gonna sweat.

I'm not sure if having the stem cracked the majority of the length insures that the entire plant is actually 18% if the Harvesttec says it's 18% or if having the stem cracked allows the Harvesttec to get a better reading of the true moisture content.

Not gonna lose any sleep over it though, it seems to be working for me.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

If one switches to hay guard, what are the list of advantages? 
Crop saver is really expensive. Is hay guard cheaper?
Is it more effective?
Easy to store, etc. 
If I run hay guard thru a harvest Tec system, is there a problem since its not what harvest Tec pushes us to run thru their system?

I know I can get these answers by going to hay guards website, but I want to get it straight from a fellow hay farmer.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

While Hayguard costs roughly twice as much as acid, you use half as much at the low rate, higher rates are 3 and 5 lbs instead of 8 and 16, so on wetter hay you actually use less than half as much as thou would acid.

It seems to be as effective as acid.

It also isn't corrosive like acid, people that complain about it being corrosive usually didn't follow manufacturers directions about neutralizing any acid that might be left on the baler. Hayguard un buffers propionic acid so it's like battery acid.

Disadvantages are that it can't be allowed to freeze.

You also can't switch back and forth between the two unless you go thru the cleaning process recommended by the manufacturer.

Also is only effective on hay up to 25%.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm under the understanding that Hayguard doesn't give the hay an offensive smell like acid does.

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an applicator system and am going to use Hayguard as my preservative.....just seems to be a better all around option than acid.


----------



## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Ok, so I understand hay going through the sweat. But I thought the goal was to get it under roof before it got any rain on it. It's pretty hard to keep it outside for a few weeks without any rain on it. I just baled 57 bales this afternoon, dry as a bone, and put it right in the shed, 3 high. Now I'm worried I made a huge mistake. I don't have the time or space to pull it all out for a few weeks.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've also started treating my hay with acid every time I bale, regardless of the moisture content. I always treat the inner 30" with 4 lbs/ton because I believe that's where the most heating would occur. If the bale is reading a little high, I'll treat the rest.

Part of my thinking is that it is very hard for me to get even drying throughout any field--parts get a lot of sun, parts get more air flow, parts are higher/lower, parts grow thicker, etc. It's not unusual for one side of a field to run 12-14% and the other to run 19-20%.

When I baled a couple of weeks ago, I rolled up 242 bales and used about 30 gallons of acid, or about $250. To me, this is just cheap insurance.

Everybody's environment is different. Each of us has to figure out what works best for us each cutting. I am "the expert" on my farm, but what I do wouldn't necessarily apply 50 miles away.

Ralph


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's so true. 
I have fields where die to ground moisture, I couldn't possibly bale at under 18%


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> Ok, so I understand hay going through the sweat. But I thought the goal was to get it under roof before it got any rain on it. It's pretty hard to keep it outside for a few weeks without any rain on it. I just baled 57 bales this afternoon, dry as a bone, and put it right in the shed, 3 high. Now I'm worried I made a huge mistake. I don't have the time or space to pull it all out for a few weeks.


You are probably alright. Getting cured hay put up with out rain is the goal.

"Cured hay" can mean different things to different people. In some parts of North America and the world getting hay to cure is not as easy. Other areas can cut one day and bale cured hay the next. There are so many different variables from region to region.

I try to let my round bales sit outside for a day if I can. They are going to heat up a little no matter how cured it is. That does not mean the barn is going to burn down.

If I roll hay that is borderline cured then I will let it sit outside longer before putting it in the barn.


----------

