# Help needed asap



## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi I have a international A-61 cultivator drill seeder it has discs not tynes can I sow in to pasture with it, I was told by a dealer here in Victoria Australia who has been restoring them that the seeders weren’t very good he also said the paddock has to be prepared first my point is why have discs then if paddock is already ploughed he said the springs are to week that hold discs down, has anyone ever used one any help appreciated are they any good


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

It sounds as if you want to "No-till" with the drill? Your dealer is very likely telling you straight on the drill. I don't think you can use it as a no-till drill into unprepared ground unless it was very very wet.

Regards, Mike


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Disc undercarriages on IH A6-1, 6-2 and 511 drills are rare. I have seen only one in the flesh. I have never used one but I do have a Massey 500 series disc drill, which is pretty much the Massey equivalent. Where the A6-1 beats it is in the cranked axles for higher lift and the gearboxes rather than change gears for setting sowing rates.

The MF disc undercarriage won't direct drill, and I suspect the IH and Conner-Shea disc drills won't either. The springs are not strong enough to achieve sufficient penetration. . As I see it you have these options. One is try to fit Baker boots on it instead of the disc openers. Howard Caldow from Cavendish offered sets of direct drill boots for different makes of disc drill but I don't think he is there any more and I don't know whether they are still made. I have a set for a Connor Shea and have been meaning to adapt them to my 500 series drill. But my neighbour now has a Baker Cross Slot drill so I get him to direct drill it for me now.

Another option is to get a spring release undercarriage and put Baker boots on it. I expect this will provide better penetration. The third option is to get a Johns undercarriage. Alan Johns in Colbinabbin built direct drilling undercarriages for the IH drills and they are much more heavily built than the original IH undercarriages. IH did offer a direct drilling undercarriage for the 511 drill but I think it was only for 24 and 28 run drills. It looks as though your A6-1 is 16 run.

The benefit of disc drills is that they can sow into roughly prepared ground with a bit if trash in it, but the ground has to be worked up to some extent.

The other problem you might have if you are trying to sow pasture seed is whether you can slow down the metering mechanism enough. On the 511 IH provided a slow speed drive that allowed it to run slowly enough to sow small seeds. you might be able to adapt something.

Roger


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> It sounds as if you want to "No-till" with the drill? Your dealer is very likely telling you straight on the drill. I don't think you can use it as a no-till drill into unprepared ground unless it was very very wet.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I agree


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

bool said:


> Disc undercarriages on IH A6-1, 6-2 and 511 drills are rare. I have seen only one in the flesh. I have never used one but I do have a Massey 500 series disc drill, which is pretty much the Massey equivalent. Where the A6-1 beats it is in the cranked axles for higher lift and the gearboxes rather than change gears for setting sowing rates.
> 
> The MF disc undercarriage won't direct drill, and I suspect the IH and Conner-Shea disc drills won't either. The springs are not strong enough to achieve sufficient penetration. . As I see it you have these options. One is try to fit Baker boots on it instead of the disc openers. Howard Caldow from Cavendish offered sets of direct drill boots for different makes of disc drill but I don't think he is there any more and I don't know whether they are still made. I have a set for a Connor Shea and have been meaning to adapt them to my 500 series drill. But my neighbour now has a Baker Cross Slot drill so I get him to direct drill it for me now.
> 
> ...


Hi the Alan Johns has retired his son inlaw runs it he said the international A_61 seeders weren't any good but he then said he has only ever seen a couple all i want to know are the international seeders any good if not what would be a good seeder shearer conner shea massey ferguson ect


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

The 511 is a refined 6-2 and the 6-2 is a refined A6-1. The basic drill is still pretty much the same. So I don't agree the A6-1 is not very good. Caveat, as I said above, I have never used one, but I have seen a few. I would say the biggest leap in IH drills was from the GL-132 to the A6_1. The drill you have might well meet your needs but you might need to modify either your drill or your sowing methods.

If you want an answer to what is a good seeder, can you provide more information please.

Where in Victoria are you?

What do you want to sow? (If you want to sow small seeds, do you want a small seed box or do you want to sow them through the grain box?)

What seeding rates are we talking about?

When do you want to sow it?

What ground conditions do you want to sow into? (heavy or light soils, how much preparation or do you want to direct drill?)

How much area do you want to sow?

What tractor will you be pulling it with?

Roger


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Biggest issue I see is it has no gauge wheel of any kind on each row. Good no till drills here will have a depth gauge on each row to control seed depth.


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

bool said:


> The 511 is a refined 6-2 and the 6-2 is a refined A6-1. The basic drill is still pretty much the same. So I don't agree the A6-1 is not very good. Caveat, as I said above, I have never used one, but I have seen a few. I would say the biggest leap in IH drills was from the GL-132 to the A6_1. The drill you have might well meet your needs but you might need to modify either your drill or your sowing methods.
> 
> If you want an answer to what is a good seeder, can you provide more information please.
> 
> ...


I am in Ballarat area i am putting in oats the ground is grey loam,i spoke to a big seed place at Allendale near creswick he said dont poison so i moldbourd ploughed before summer like they said then run offset discs over it 2 weeks ago to get it down finer, so i messaged Allan Johns but was told his son inlaw runs it now, the son inlaw said the seeders aren't any good why i dont know. am i better off with a tyned seeder.


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Your A6-1 will sow it just fine. You have mouldboard ploughed it, which provides good sod tuyrnouver and buries weed seeds well. You have left it fallow over summer, which will help break down any root mats and allow any clods to break up. Loamy ground ought to break up easily enough. You have disced it recently to work it up a bit. Because you left it a long time between ploughing and discing, the discing will do a better job. So you won't have any penetration problems.

If you run some harrows over it before you sow it you will have a relatively smooth, level surface, which will help with depth control. Oats are a seed that tolerates roughly worked up ground and variation in sowing depth, so I doubt you will have depth control problem. Put them down a couple of inches, or maybe an inch and a half, and you will be fine.

And oats is a big seed with a relatively high sowing rate so you will be able to set the right sowing rate on the gearbox.

If oats is all you will be sowing, and you plan to keep ploughing, you have a fine seed drill for your needs. Tynes work well in smooth ground and well-worked up ground. Discs cut through clods and handle more roughly worked ground better. I see it has been repainted with non-original decals, so I am guessing you haven't had it long.

If you want to try tynes look for a spring release tyne undercarriage for it. I think an undercarriage from a 6-2 or a 511 would probably fit, but check. Spring release tynes will work better than spring tynes. They have better depth control and higher breakout force. Spring tynes are for well worked, lighter ground.

Do you have an operator's manual for it?

I'll be sowing oats and vetch in the next couple of days.

Also, next time an expert tells you "don't do that" or "that's no good", ask them why. Their reasons might not be relevant to your situation.

Roger


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi Roger thank you very much I really appreciate your help 
Regards Anthony


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Keep an eye out for a Duncan? Plenty of us dairy farmers going broke daily......Agree with all of the above.....also depends on budget. If it's a one off, I'd be looking for a local contractor with a jd 1590.

By the way Anthony, you dont happen to be a tff member do you?


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Keep an eye out for a Duncan? Plenty of us dairy farmers going broke daily......Agree with all of the above.....also depends on budget. If it's a one off, I'd be looking for a local contractor with a jd 1590.
> 
> By the way Anthony, you dont happen to be a tff member do you?





Hay diddle diddle said:


> Keep an eye out for a Duncan? Plenty of us dairy farmers going broke daily......Agree with all of the above.....also depends on budget. If it's a one off, I'd be looking for a local contractor with a jd 1590.
> 
> By the way Anthony, you dont happen to be a tff member do you?


What is tff also how do i adjust the depth of the undercarriage to make it go deeper in the ground


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Install or remove collars on the ram piston.

Adjust the length of the turnbuckles connecting the ram crank to the axle cranks.

Beyond that, use whatever adjustments you can see that move the cranked axles in the direction you want.

And buy an operator's manual.

Roger


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Farmer680 said:


> What is tff also how do i adjust the depth of the undercarriage to make it go deeper in the ground


Just thought you may have been on another forum (pommy one). Bloke on there from Portland that I know of....


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

A man at work has offered me a Conner Shea Tyne drill 18 run with Caldow points he said I can have it for $4000 it’s ready to go would it be worth that


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

Short answer: if it is in good condition it is worth that. $5000 tops if it is spot on, $2000 if it is rough but goes.

Longer answer: Connor Shea drills are good. The row spacing is 6 inches, compared with 7 inches for the IH and MF drills. That's better for small seeds but might not make much difference for large seeds. The biggest plus is the gearing can be slowed right down and the seed runs closed right down so you can sow small seeds through the grain box, so you don't need a small seeds box. Tom Connor was a genius.

Do you know exactly which model drill it is? Some later ones had coil tynes, and some of those also had coulters to open the slot.

Roger


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi the curved Tynes have the adjustable spring on top not sure what there called


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

And also has the deep reduction gears if you want to slow the amount of seed coming out


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

They're spring release tynes. I presume it is a Tyne Combine.

Roger


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi yes he said there spring release Tynes


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

A Tyne Combine is probably a lot older than a Coil Tyne Drill. It could be 50 years old, like your A6-1. The Caldow boots probably add $1000 to its value but I think I would be trying to get it for less than $4000.

Note to our friends on the other side of the world: In Australia a Combine is not a combined harvester-thresher, but a combined cultivator-seed drill. However, with the increasing globalisation of farm machinery, demise of Australian-made grain harvesters and increasing use of air seeders to increase sowing width it is becoming harder to maintain this distinction.

Roger


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## Farmer680 (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi he just told me it’s a series 3 seeder they put brand new caldo points on it


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## Kybrooka (Mar 21, 2020)

bool said:


> They're spring release tynes. I presume it is a Tyne Combine.
> 
> Roger


Hi, There seems to be some good info and knowledge here on combine seed drills, I am in South West Victoria and have just purchased an old but still in good condition Massey Harris Sunshine 500 and was wondering if someone out there could give me some tips on using it. It has the small seed box as well as the grain box and fert box.. I will be using it for mainly rye and clover it also has baker boots and works well as just a scarifier but I want to use it soon before winter sets. Thanks in advance


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

I've got a MF 55 20 run combine in the shed. Sowed thousands of acres of clover and rye with it.


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## bool (Mar 14, 2016)

See my reply in your other thread.

Roger


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## Kybrooka (Mar 21, 2020)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> I've got a MF 55 20 run combine in the shed. Sowed thousands of acres of clover and rye with it.


Hi Hay diddle diddle, would it be possible to use the grain box to sew small seed like rye instead of having it drop out of the back of the small seed box? Also does the fert cog move around that slowly that its hard to see by eye?


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## Kybrooka (Mar 21, 2020)

bool said:


> See my reply in your other thread.
> 
> Roger


Thanks Roger


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

What we used to do was mix the clover and ryegrass and sow through small seed box. Fert cog I would imagine should initially move like grain side. The sprockets should alter the rate. Check it hasnt shearedthe pin from the main clutch drive to the feet sprockets somewhere.... we had R clips that would shear and still be turning but the shaft with sprocket would stop.

All this is going off memory as have not used the 55 for at least 25 years....


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## Kybrooka (Mar 21, 2020)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> What we used to do was mix the clover and ryegrass and sow through small seed box. Fert cog I would imagine should initially move like grain side. The sprockets should alter the rate. Check it hasnt shearedthe pin from the main clutch drive to the feet sprockets somewhere.... we had R clips that would shear and still be turning but the shaft with sprocket would stop.
> 
> All this is going off memory as have not used the 55 for at least 25 years....


Thanks Diddle I will check all this out and at this stage I don't think anything has sheared as all the cogs turn when I turn things by hand with the crank handle.. My only option with my small seed box is that it drops free from about 3 ft, I was wanting to put the rye and clover through the seed drill with the baker boots and tynes but not sure this will work ?


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

It's better dropping out back in my opinion. Rather than rows you get a well spread out strike. Also you dont want to bury either seed too deep. Drop onto the soil behind the tynes and run some diamond leaf harrows behind combine and you will be fine.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Or run a culti-packer over the field after you drop the small seed.

Regards, Mike


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## Kybrooka (Mar 21, 2020)

Thanks for both your reply's and this is what I am thinking of doing now, I just wont do it on a windy day :lol:


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