# new sq baler purchase NH Vs MF



## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Been on the phone all day trying to find a 1840 MF sq baler in TX and while talking to a dealer that sold MF and NH said go to my local NH dealer and buy a bc 5070....... any thoughts? NH would have way closer service but i am really wanting an inline! He also said the 1837 is just as good as the new 1840 I dont know how since it has several upgrades and high performance package. Thanks!


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I've run my CIH inline for 6 years now. When I replace it, it will be with another inline. If I was to buy a NH square baler, I'd be looking at the CIH ones, seem to be way cheaper around here for the same baler just different paint.


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

There is a difference in the 1840-1837. http://www.hesston.com/file/cms/2014/1/30/Hesston-by-Massey-Ferguson-1800-Series-Small-Square-Balers-Brochure.pdf. Go to page 20 on the brochure and it will show you. If they were just as good why wouldn't they just have one model. That would mean a NH5060 in just as good as a NH5070. Why do the have a NH5070 Hayliner ... they are all the same. Don't think so.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Here is why I prefer a New Holland over a MF. I've owned both a New Holland and a Hesston 16x18 inch baler. The Hesston is better with alfalfa as it doesn't thrash it around as much so there is less leaf loss. However when we had one and I was baling at night I wouldn't remember to be careful and I would plug up the little augers on corners or turns while baling alfalfa with some moisture in it. I understand that the 1840 the little augers move a different way and might be better. The New Holland I feel is better for grass hay. At least the way we put up grass hay in Colorado. We don't ted the grass hay. We also sometimes don't even rake it for small balers. Which means there might be some green slugs where you run over the windrows or just go through the swather funny. The Hesston will take these green spots and compact it into the bale. The New Hollands with the side motion mixes it up some before it gets in the chamber so there is less of a chance of spoilage. I suppose a JD baler would be similar. Now if you ted or even rake those slugs should be taken care of better so maybe it doesn't matter as much. We just found we could bale grass hay slightly wetter with the NH then the Hesston. Which is an advantage. Of course the inline is easier to maneuver anywhere.

If I was going to get back into small bales I think I would look hard at a MF 1840, but most likely I would look for a 5070 Hayliner. I would not consider unless the price was really good an older Hesston or Massey inline.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Speaking from experience, if you are looking at an older inline, figure roughly $3k to $4k in parts. It will nearly always need knotter work especially the little worm gears,a new cam arm assy, new plunger bearings and knives, cam follower bearings on the pickup, new baffle plates, and a host of pickup teeth. The good news is that they are easy to work on and most of the bearings are easy enough to get to.
Unfortunately this isnt limited to just inline balers though.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Lostin55 said:


> Speaking from experience, if you are looking at an older inline, figure roughly $3k to $4k in parts. It will nearly always need knotter work especially the little worm gears,a new cam arm assy, new plunger bearings and knives, cam follower bearings on the pickup, new baffle plates, and a host of pickup teeth. The good news is that they are easy to work on and most of the bearings are easy enough to get to.
> Unfortunately this isnt limited to just inline balers though.


I think if he is looking for an 1840 he wants a new one.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounded like the dealer may have tried pushing him towards a used 1837?

If dealers don't want to sell you a product you know is what you want, go somewhere else. Or talk to a different sales guy. Some actually like making sales and happy customers. Some don't.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

We have a guy in our area that puts up maybe 30,000 squares a year. He has a brand new new holland Bc 5070 that's on it's 2nd year. He called the other day wanting to buy our case sbx540 and Steffens 10 bale because he can't keep up with one baler. So that tells me there's still not enough capacity like you may be looking for. 
Plus if you buy an inline you can try it begins your rakehand. If it doesn't work well you still got a good square baler


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

The only thing you won't like about he 1837 is twine capacity.....it'll outrun my bandit (model 100) in good hay. 
I personally like the shorter length when compared to the 1840.....btw I don't know hw much longer it is but it looks about 4' longer? I don't worry too much about the fan, I carry a stihl blower with me to blow off the knotter and the bandit, saves a lot of problems......


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

The 1840 is only 14 inches longer than the 1837. And I have rather large fields. I just picked up a client that will do on average 10,000 sq a month so I would rather the most industrial baler.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Stuckey1 said:


> The 1840 is only 14 inches longer than the 1837. And I have rather large fields. I just picked up a client that will do on average 10,000 sq a month so I would rather the most industrial baler.


That many bales you better then a 16 inch wide baler then to really eat the hay.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

With that amount I would opt for two 1837,1839 or 1840


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I went with the 1840 going to pick it up Monday.... If I like it I'll order another


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

How many little balers will you be keeping?


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

All of them.... The JD's are paid for and would be good back up or good for extra help


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Stuckey1 said:


> All of them.... The JD's are paid for and would be good back up or good for extra help


Paid for equipment is the best equipment.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounds like you have a top notch operation. Either that or you won the lotto and are trying to spend money as quick as you can (just kidding). Hats off.

Is that then 2 green squares, one NH , one Massey and another if the first works out?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Bonfire said:


> Paid for equipment is the best equipment.


I am not so sure about that. When all of my equipment was paid for I had junk. 

But Working reliable paid for equipment. That's the ticket. Had to add the caviat.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I sold that nh 570 that I cam across made some quick cash. When you do a few thousand acres you need everything you can. Things are starting to look like a well running operation. We have gotten so busy it seems like we get something paid off we're buying another piece of equipment. It takes money to make money! God has blessed us that's for sure!


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## kfhanson (Jan 20, 2014)

I've put up 10,000+ bales per year for the last few years with a NH 326, which was an awesome baler. This spring I sold it and went with a MF 1840 inline. That was the best move I've made regarding the hay business. So far this year I've baled over 8500 bales and not gotten out of the tractor once to move a bale. I'm averaging about a bale every 6-7 seconds in grass hay. With the headland turns etc., I'm averaging about 350-400 bales per hour.

The baler will produce more per hour, but the bales get shaggy looking if you overfeed it.

The only problem i've had is the metering wheel nut came loose so the trip arm was not moving consistently producing inconsistent bale length. Tightened up the nut and all is good.

Anyone looking at a NH/JD side pull vs. MF inline- go with the inline. It's awesome.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm super excited about tomorrow I am going to start baling about 10,000+ sq and get to use the new baler


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Stuckey1 said:


> I'm super excited about tomorrow I am going to start baling about 10,000+ sq and get to use the new baler


Does the 1840 have a wider pickup then the older models? I'm just noticing it on your trailer that it is a bit wider then the trailer. Looks nice! Hopefully the dealer set it up right. Or hopefully MF built it right. My dad likes to tell the story about in the early eighties they bought a New Holland 16 inch baler and it kept breaking needles. The dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. So my dad got an independent baler repair guy to look at it. In 5 seconds he told them they had the wrong knotters on it. Knotters from a 14 inch baler. Dealer switched them out and that baler worked for us for over 25 years.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

No it's the same as the 1839 pick up. I'll let y'all know how it goes tomorrow!


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Does the 1840 have a wider pickup then the older models? I'm just noticing it on your trailer that it is a bit wider then the trailer. Looks nice! Hopefully the dealer set it up right. Or hopefully MF built it right. My dad likes to tell the story about in the early eighties they bought a New Holland 16 inch baler and it kept breaking needles. The dealer couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. So my dad got an independent baler repair guy to look at it. In 5 seconds he told them they had the wrong knotters on it. Knotters from a 14 inch baler. Dealer switched them out and that baler worked for us for over 25 years.


 What is the difference in the knotters of a 14 inch baler and a 16 inch baler......just curious.....I would have thought the knotters would have been the same.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> What is the difference in the knotters of a 14 inch baler and a 16 inch baler......just curious.....I would have thought the knotters would have been the same.


I'm not sure about now, but I guess back then they were a bit larger or just set up different. That's what my dad said anyways. I was 5 at the time so I don't remember this event.


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## astropilot (Jun 3, 2008)

One Thing you will notice is the bales look better, more consistent and uniform. Curious to see now you like the Knotter fan. We have a Heston 4570 and love it!


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

We bought a 1837 this year and love it. Like I told some was like being transported to the 21st century. Best wishes and good luck with the 1840.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Well Stuckey??? How did it run? Where's the pictures!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Colby said:


> Well Stuckey??? How did it run? Where's the pictures!


My guess....there're still stacking bundles in the barn!


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Just got home that thing is a beast! I'm trading in my other 348's! Asap! I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I'm tired


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

You know, you can tell folks how much better a inline is until your blue in the face and they will still be doubtful(human nature)....cornshucker stated it best....."welcome to the 21st Century". I will never even consider owning a sidepull baler again.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

do they make throwers for the 1840? Sorry, I am fully outfitted for kicker systems and I am too old to want to change all that now. Made the decision long time ago that I did not want the hassle of a NH bale wagon-when they work they are great, when they don't, you hate life. Can't afford to have one and have it go down with 700 bales on the ground.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2014)

Since the topic was sort of being discussed what is the big advantage of an inline small square? Ive only run new hollands but i use to own a big square which is obviously inline. I just dont understand the big hype on inlne balers... here in this part of the midwest u never see them. You so see A LOT of nh side pulls. Maybe this is something i should look into


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Vol said:


> You know, you can tell folks how much better a inline is until your blue in the face and they will still be doubtful(human nature)....cornshucker stated it best....."welcome to the 21st Century". I will never even consider owning a sidepull baler again.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Exactly right Mike about talking until you are blue in the face. Some won't change because of color preference, to some the idea is so different. The biggest reason I can not see in changing on any type of equipment is lack of dealer support, other than that color don't make a hill of beans to me. Maybe it was easy for me because we have 3 good Massey Ferguson dealers within an hour of home and have ran some Massey tractors since I was knee high.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> do they make throwers for the 1840? Sorry, I am fully outfitted for kicker systems and I am too old to want to change all that now. Made the decision long time ago that I did not want the hassle of a NH bale wagon-when they work they are great, when they don't, you hate life. Can't afford to have one and have it go down with 700 bales on the ground.


Yes they make a thrower for the 1839 so I assume they make one for the 1840.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Now we just need an agco-massey dealer-the closest one-45min away, closed doors 18 mos ago. too bad, I have a good NI spreader I bought from them. It's ok on the spreader since all that goes is the bed chain and I get that from shoup.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

bbos said:


> Since the topic was sort of being discussed what is the big advantage of an inline small square?


Here are a few;

1. The ability to make a consistent bale out of a inconsistent windrow.

2. Manueverability.....unsurpassed....pull it down the highway in one lane at 45 mph....turn left or right with no pto chatter.

3. Nicely balanced with no humping when baling.

4. The most gentle on alfalfa of any baler....less leaf loss with the straight thru "inline" design.

5. Really works terrific with a accumulator.

6. Drive thru narrow gates, entryways, etc....whatever your tractor will fit thru...your good.

7. Can make the most incredibly beautiful bale in 2nd grass, 3rd and 4th alfalfa that you have ever seen and can do it with a consistent heavy brick like weight. The earlier cut bales are very nice too.

There are more reasons, but these are some of my favorite.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

The only drawback is that you can't see the bales exit the chute as on the side pulls.....not to worry, what's coming out is some really consistent bales.....just like a fine tuned NH or JD in perfect windrows.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> The only drawback is that you can't see the bales exit the chute as on the side pulls.....not to worry, what's coming out is some really consistent bales.....just like a fine tuned NH or JD in perfect windrows.


You can if you have a Kuhns accumulator and watch as they climb up the incline chute.  I just glance up and look into my nascar wraparound racing mirror mounted on the roof of my cab.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm not knocking a inline baler whatsoever as I know many of you are very pleased with them just as I am with my NH. I have never run an inline either however I did buy some hay last winter and it was out of an inline baler and the bales looked awful. It was first cutting orchard/fescue and it just didn't look good with the twine on the cut side of the bale. I also bought some straw out of any inline and I hated handling those bales......if you were not wearing gloves your hands would get poked and sliced from the sharp ends of the cut side of the bale being where the twine was. On the other hand I saw some bales of Alicia bermuda out of an inline baler and the bales were beautiful. Maybe this is only an issue with courser types of hay? Or maybe the particular balers that baled the hay I bought?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's a good point Hayden, I'm sure on course straw one better use gloves either way buy most specially with an inline.....best bet is don't touch no more than u have to


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Today we put a 348 next to the the 1840. The 1840 was lapping the 348! Same windrow conditions both tractors 95 pto I was shocked! So was my Jd only friend! The 1840 was well worth the money! Biggest complaint didn't buy it sooner.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Wow- just found the way to full info on the 1840 and a kicker. I thought I had done a deal with the devil when I bought my 570 in 08, but it looks like an 1840, with a wagon pull, hydraulic chamber and thrower is 30K+. Now I am not ready to buy or anything, but can that be right? If so, I am really, really happy with my 570 now!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayman1 said:


> Wow- just found the way to full info on the 1840 and a kicker. I thought I had done a deal with the devil when I bought my 570 in 08, but it looks like an 1840, with a wagon pull, hydraulic chamber and thrower is 30K+. Now I am not ready to buy or anything, but can that be right? If so, I am really, really happy with my 570 now!


How much was the thrower Hayman? That sounds very high compared to what I paid for a 1839 new in 2012, but I have no idea how much the thrower is priced.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> On the other hand I saw some bales of Alicia bermuda out of an inline baler and the bales were beautiful. Maybe this is only an issue with courser types of hay? Or maybe the particular balers that baled the hay I bought?


I really don't know for sure what you were dealing with Hayden, but I can tell you this....I have never had a single complaint or inquiry by anyone about my bales. Not one. The cut side is on the bottom of the bale and I stack flat. I have handled the cut side in all cuttings of grass hay and alfalfa and it is not a problem for me or anyone else that has bought my bales. First cutting grass and alfalfa both are very nice....just like your bales of alfalfa and Tim/Orch that you showed me.

Regards, Mike


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## jdhayfarmer (Jan 20, 2012)

Say what you want about your inlines yes they are nice but while your putting shear pins in I'll still be baling along with my 348. I know this as I have both balers


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I usually shear 3-4 bolts a year since I realized that it will not bale green hay. It will take a green slug, but does not like green hay. Usually the only time I shear a bolt is under tree lines.

Regards, Mike


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Ha! I was wondering when this thread would pull you in Jdhf.

I too have had the pleasure of running an 1840 this season. Fine machine, a lot of reasons to own one. Outright capacity against a 5070 is not one of them. If I had a field of grass hay in big windrows at %17 moisture and a storm on the horizon I believe I would rather be pulling a 348. The inline shines in a lot of situations but not all.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

jdhayfarmer said:


> Say what you want about your inlines yes they are nice but while your putting shear pins in I'll still be baling along with my 348. I know this as I have both balers


1 shear bolt this year in a monster windrow, I usually don't break em, prolly 3-4 out of 12k or so.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> 1 shear bolt this year in a monster windrow, I usually don't break em, prolly 3-4 out of 12k or so.....


Usually don't break them? 3-4 out of 12K seems like you do.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I think the thrower on the "build your own" pricing sheet was about 8k, the tongue package about 850, and the hydraulic chamber-2300-can't remember that one. think the base was about 22 and the blower was about 800. I know that is not the final dealer price but whoa, that is pricey.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> I really don't know for sure what you were dealing with Hayden, but I can tell you this....I have never had a single complaint or inquiry by anyone about my bales. Not one. The cut side is on the bottom of the bale and I stack flat. I have handled the cut side in all cuttings of grass hay and alfalfa and it is not a problem for me or anyone else that has bought my bales. First cutting grass and alfalfa both are very nice....just like your bales of alfalfa and Tim/Orch that you showed me.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 I don't know what the particular model the balers were that baled the hay and straw I bought. The bales were stored in a van trailer with the cut side up. The first cut grass wasn't so bad to handle but everyone that bought the hay from me asked what was wrong with the bales......they had never heard of an inline baler and just couldn't understand how the twine was on the cut side......they still bought the hay though. The sides of the bale was quite ragged but I assumed that it was from the baler being pushed hard as my NH will do that also if I'm pushing it too fast. The straw however is what I really didn't like......it was also stacked with the cut side up......I had forgotten to bring gloves that day with me to handle the bales and the cut side was sharp enough that if you were not careful it would cut your hand when getting under the twine to pick up the bale.

It wouldn't be an issue if you wear gloves but the buyers don't always bring gloves.....just one more thing for my particular group of buyers to complain about. It may have just been the particular model of baler that baled the hay I bought.....as the bermuda I saw was out of an 1837 and was about as pretty of a bale as you can get.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hayman1 said:


> I think the thrower on the "build your own" pricing sheet was about 8k, the tongue package about 850, and the hydraulic chamber-2300-can't remember that one. think the base was about 22 and the blower was about 800. I know that is not the final dealer price but whoa, that is pricey.


Are those numbers really much different than NH list price?


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Probably close. I priced out a another hayliner this spring and it was 4k higher @ 27k. Then a month ago I priced it out again and it was $22,900. No thrower with hitch and chute.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

HiTech

-for some reason, my quote button does not work-anyway, I don't know what the current prices for balers is. Just glad I don't have to buy one. I guess I did pay a significant amount for my 570 in 08 and had a great trade value on my 315. Everything on my 570 is working optimally so why change what works?

Glad we have these forums because I never thought about the cut edge being with the twine and being rough. Might not be that big a deal for bale bandits, but for Bale Babes, now that could be a whole different deal altogether!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayman1 said:


> Glad we have these forums because I never thought about the cut edge being with the twine and being rough. Might not be that big a deal for bale bandits, but for Bale Babes, now that could be a whole different deal altogether!


Really not a issue unless you like to stack your hay with the cut side up as the cut side on a inline is on the bottom side of the bale. Most folks never even realize it. The only time I would even consider it "rough" is in alfalfa. It is not rough in grass hay....or not for most anyway.

Regards, Mike.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Now that we are talking about all this stuff, just curious how it would work with a Steffens system and how you load them on a trailer??


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Bale Babes - that's a new term to me. I think you should trademark that term for some future use hayman. Cline is right on the appearance thing. You hardly notice the difference on nice product, like most of our brothers on here make. But the common or even ugly hay really shows up with that edge under the twine. Bundles have one end showing this cut edge.... can't hide it.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mike- now my curiosity is up so I need to find someone that has one of these locally and look at their bales.

I have never stacked hay on the twine side in my life because it breathes better on edge. I am pushing my moisture in hay shooting for 16 % because that is what the customers want but I don't use any preservative. So, I want my hay to breathe as much as possible.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Usually don't break them? 3-4 out of 12K seems like you do.


Prolly broke 2-3 learning how much was too much, can't remember the last time I sheared one, but last week the hired help sheared one in a monster windrow....usually don't have windrows like that but right before baling a microburst hit us and had its way with those nicely fluffed up rotary rake windrows....
Had to wait till the next day and rake windrows together....a real mess, but I couldn't complain....it's a learning process on how much is too much.....


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> I guess I did pay a significant amount for my 570 in 08 and had a great trade value on my 315. Everything on my 570 is working optimally so why change what works?
> 
> Interesting Hayman! I went from a 315 to a 570 as well! I bought the 570 from a JD dealer after it was traded for a JD 348. My 315 had been "ridden hard and put up wet" all its life, but it's still going strong on a farm up in Maine! Love my 570!
> Dave


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

2 days now the 1840 has baled about 700 more than the 348! And that's not pushing it that's just an easy day. The bales look great!


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

38 inches 60 lbs


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Stuckey1 said:


> 2 days now the 1840 has baled about 700 more than the 348! And that's not pushing it that's just an easy day. The bales look great!


Don't start pushing it. We don't need to hear about more broken shear pins!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Don't start pushing it. We don't need to hear about more broken shear pins!


I've found when "pushing" equipment to go as fast as possible generally means I will be spending more time then the pushing saved unplugging, repairing, rebaling something later.  And I'll be in a lousy mood also.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

No I'm talking about baling late almost till dark. I'm sure it be well over 1000 bales more. I don't have time for plugs or shear pins! My blood pressure is already high!


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## astropilot (Jun 3, 2008)

Big thing is with the inline is to feed it and work "Slow and Steady" it will amaze you how much hay can be baled. It not uncommon for my father and I to bale and load 800 bales in one afternoon. Also you will want to build more storage, haha.

Another suggestion is the addition of the Hay Boss Preservative System, we handle all of our bale Mechanically (Steffen System) and by not physically handling them we wanted the added security of moisture testing and protection. This has paid off big for us. We don't use much preservative, but we do have an accurate measure of the moisture or lack of in the bales.

Mark


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

What are the total numbers? The other day with the 348 we started at 1:15 and by 6 pm we had 1600 bales on the counter. Thats baling into baskets so a 5 min stop every 15 min or so to dump, and big wide turns on ends that slow things down. There was 30 mins of road travel between farms in there too.

We also have a 336 but its waiting on parts so we are only running 1 baler.



Stuckey1 said:


> 2 days now the 1840 has baled about 700 more than the 348! And that's not pushing it that's just an easy day. The bales look great!


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Looking good Stuckey! What's your thoughts on the pickup operation?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> What are the total numbers? The other day with the 348 we started at 1:15 and by 6 pm we had 1600 bales on the counter. Thats baling into baskets so a 5 min stop every 15 min or so to dump, and big wide turns on ends that slow things down. There was 30 mins of road travel between farms in there too.
> 
> We also have a 336 but its waiting on parts so we are only running 1 baler.


That's about 8 bales a min.....u sure?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

May not have been 30 min travel, maybe only 20, and the bales are 32" not 36'ers. We were over 330 bales the first hour.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I came up with 9.33 bales/ minute, counting the roughly 19 total 5 minute stops and turn-arounds. 267 total minutes, 95 minutes delay with the wagons leaves 172 minutes baling. 1600 bales divided by 172 + roughly 9.3 bales per minute. The math almost works out. Assuming 13 strokes per bale = 121 strokes per minute. A little less than 5 minutes per load and it could work. I want that baler.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Copy and paste from my phone notes less customer info:

July 12
-Started baling at 1:15pm
- by Lovells old place 340 bales
- field by Anne Victor 349 bales
-855 bales at Everettes side field left of camp road
----------------------------------------

Thats 1544 bales not 1600!

Went and grabbed a time stamp off the last phone picture I had at 5:30, background sure looks to have a lot of windrows left for finishing at 6. I'm thinking I must have finished at 7 pm, not 6 and wrote it down wrong once I got home later.

Watched the video I had and the bales are an ugly 9 flakes. At 93 spm that is 620 bales per hour... so maybe it was 6 pm? Not sure now.

Pic from the field I think at 5:30








I'll try the video:
Bah it won't go.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

SVFHAY said:


> Looking good Stuckey! What's your thoughts on the pickup operation?


Picking up that many bundles is quite a chore I have a skid steer bunch hay and loading up trailers while we're baling but moving 8000 bales is a very large task at least the barn is really close


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

SVFHAY said:


> Looking good Stuckey! What's your thoughts on the pickup operation?


Or are you talking about the pick up head on the bandit?
I'll be honest at first it will really test your blood pressure! Once you find the sweet spot your good to go Brian the bandit sales man was out yesterday checking up on things and said they are redesigning the head to make it a little easier to use


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Stuckey1 said:


> Picking up that many bundles is quite a chore I have a skid steer bunch hay and loading up trailers while we're baling but moving 8000 bales is a very large task at least the barn is really close


381 bundles is a bunch but would have been a lot more 4x5's. This is how we do it....

But what I was asking about was the pickup unit on the front of the bandit


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

It wouldn't be bad if the rain wasn't knocking on your door but here in south east Texas the weather has been crazy this year.... we were going to do about 10000 but we rolled up about 100 rolls to beat the rain... we move it out of the field the same way


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I wasn't impressed with the bale baron bundles we bought this winter.. It may of been whoever put them up but they were lopsided and the string wasn't tight and the bundles didn't stay together well, bundles didn't fit in van trailers like they claim. Plus a pita to load on a flatbed unless you drive on with a skid steer everytime


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

That's why I went with the bandit! They could be moved with a fork lift... We have one at the shop and when the tractors are out we can load hay up and not need a special grapple. Bandit bundles are user friendly compared to baron!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

How are you pickin outta the field stuckey....skids with forks?


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Forks


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Gotcha....little learning curve with the forks but gets easier....logistics become problematic until ya get everyone on board....nice job!


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Can't you run the bandit behind the baler or is it faster to pick them up off the ground like you're doing?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Prolly faster in the whole scheme of things to do it like that, course in a perfect world, one would have two or more bale bundling bandits/barons etc....not sure about the model 200 but I can definitely outrun the 100 in good hay.....stuckey, what say you, can you outrun the 200?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Colby said:


> I wasn't impressed with the bale baron bundles we bought this winter.. It may of been whoever put them up but they were lopsided and the string wasn't tight and the bundles didn't stay together well, bundles didn't fit in van trailers like they claim. Plus a pita to load on a flatbed unless you drive on with a skid steer everytime


 I felt the same way about bale baron bundles of hay I bought last winter. I don't have a skid steer and I couldn't handle them good with a forklift since the twine is on the outside of the bundle.....but the bundles were loose enough that you could slide the forks between the first and second layer of bales.....but then the bundle would sag and if you were not careful it would fall apart. The bundles are a bit loose to be handled multiple times in my opinion. Then once the bundle was opened it was little bitty 35-40 pound 32-34 inch bales that is what the baron requires......and everyone complained about the size of the bales and I had to discount it.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Very market sensitive, areas dominated by 32-34" bales like here in the northeast you get no premium for having to use 38 or 40" bales in a bandit. 40-50 lb kicker bales are the norm.

I don't think the baron likes 25% acid treated hay that dries and shrinks in storage. I don't imagine the bandit or arcusin would either, neither one have a method to take up the slack from the bales shrinking.



FarmerCline said:


> I felt the same way about bale baron bundles of hay I bought last winter. I don't have a skid steer and I couldn't handle them good with a forklift since the twine is on the outside of the bundle.....but the bundles were loose enough that you could slide the forks between the first and second layer of bales.....but then the bundle would sag and if you were not careful it would fall apart. The bundles are a bit loose to be handled multiple times in my opinion. Then once the bundle was opened it was little bitty 35-40 pound 32-34 inch bales that is what the baron requires......and everyone complained about the size of the bales and I had to discount it.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Colby said:


> Can't you run the bandit behind the baler or is it faster to pick them up off the ground like you're doing?


I'm running 2 balers and the 1840 will definitely out run the bandit 200... using the puck up head on a good big field with long rows I can constantly bundle 575 an hour they say it can handle 600 an hour but with head lands and operator error it's hard to do


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

A second bandit is in the works for next year!


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> Very market sensitive, areas dominated by 32-34" bales like here in the northeast you get no premium for having to use 38 or 40" bales in a bandit. 40-50 lb kicker bales are the norm.
> 
> I don't think the baron likes 25% acid treated hay that dries and shrinks in storage. I don't imagine the bandit or arcusin would either, neither one have a method to take up the slack from the bales shrinking.


I don't care when you knock the machines but when you cut on the bundles that has to be answered because the value of the packaging is where my profit is. The bandit can make 36" packages as the following pics show. I prefer 38-39" though as they handle/stack nicer. 25% moisture is a bad idea but shrinkage isn't the big issue it's the fact that some spots won't cure . The 3" compression zone is what keeps bandit bundles so tight. They need to look like the last pic AFTER curing . If they don't I wouldn't buy that machine. I think there are potential customers out there that can recognize value in quality, bale weights and labor saving unique packaging. They may not be next door though.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Stucky-575 an hour beats any thing I have ever averaged. I feel there are too many days I would get rained on individual bales here if I went pickup mode.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

All I'm saying about the package is it needs to meet local markets, forcing a size that is new onto folks is a headache and risky. I know a Bandit can have blocks fitted and do 36" bales or maybe even 35, but I also know if you get a short bale on the corner the strap can slip. If it did 32-34" bales it would be more popular up here I'd bet.

Same thing with the baron, if it did up to 40" bales like the bandit, it would have a lot more market appeal in many areas.

I don't have problem with the current Bandit machine they seem to be much improved, just the waste straps. I think its good there are options, its driving innovation. I'd be happy to see the 3 or 4 european bundler brands over here more prominently too for more choice.



SVFHAY said:


> I don't care when you knock the machines but when you cut on the bundles that has to be answered because the value of the packaging is where my profit is. The bandit can make 36" packages as the following pics show. I prefer 38-39" though as they handle/stack nicer. 25% moisture is a bad idea but shrinkage isn't the big issue it's the fact that some spots won't cure . The 3" compression zone is what keeps bandit bundles so tight. They need to look like the last pic AFTER curing . If they don't I wouldn't buy that machine. I think there are potential customers out there that can recognize value in quality, bale weights and labor saving unique packaging. They may not be next door though.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I wanted a acrusin but with it being foreign and only doing 14 I went with the bandit! I could only imagine dealing with service in Spain.... They are open you are asleep kind of thing then language barrier on top of that! Bandit service is excellent will pick up the phone damn near 24/365! I do a 38" bale I had some baron bundles last year and people frowned on a 34" bale!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Gotta sell what they want. I'm getting complaints my 32" bales are too heavy at 45 lbs, they want that length but 35-40 lbs like the kicker wagons. We have to walk on our bales to stack so I really don't like doing that. I'd rather go shorter to get the weight down.



Stuckey1 said:


> I wanted a acrusin but with it being foreign and only doing 14 I went with the bandit! I could only imagine dealing with service in Spain.... They are open you are asleep kind of thing then language barrier on top of that! Bandit service is excellent will pick up the phone damn near 24/365! I do a 38" bale I had some baron bundles last year and people frowned on a 34" bale!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Gotta sell what they want. I'm getting complaints my 32" bales are too heavy at 45 lbs, they want that length but 35-40 lbs like the kicker wagons. We have to walk on our bales to stack so I really don't like doing that. I'd rather go shorter to get the weight down.


heavy at 45 lbs? I wonder if a baler company would design say a 12x16 inch bale if those kinds of bales would sell.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

While we are talking about the bale bandit I have a question for you fellas that run one. How easily could a person unload the bundles and stack in the barn if he had a forklift and no desire to buy a skid steer? Most of the time the bundles would be hauled on a 22 long 8 wide deck over trailer. I would also like to be able to load the bundles back out of the barn onto gooseneck trailers with the forklift when I sell the hay.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

FarmerCline said:


> While we are talking about the bale bandit I have a question for you fellas that run one. How easily could a person unload the bundles and stack in the barn if he had a forklift and no desire to buy a skid steer? Most of the time the bundles would be hauled on a 22 long 8 wide deck over trailer. I would also like to be able to load the bundles back out of the barn onto gooseneck trailers with the forklift when I sell the hay.


It depends on the surface your working on. Cement or pavement you'll get by fine. Gravel or dirt won't work very well, even with one with pneumatic tires. I used one for most stacking the first few years on gravel and it was tedious. The key is to have a thin fork, 1.5" or less thick at the heel. I still use it some to get 4 high but skidloader is much nicer. Bundles come in from field sitting across the bed instead of lengthwise so I use extensions over standard forks.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

SVFHAY said:


> It depends on the surface your working on. Cement or pavement you'll get by fine. Gravel or dirt won't work very well, even with one with pneumatic tires. I used one for most stacking the first few years on gravel and it was tedious. The key is to have a thin fork, 1.5" or less thick at the heel. I still use it some to get 4 high but skidloader is much nicer. Bundles come in from field sitting across the bed instead of lengthwise so I use extensions over standard forks.


I would be on asphalt in the barn and unloading the trailer would be on super hard packed dirt.....can take a forklift over it right after it rains. How hard is it to slide the forks under the bundle without it being pushed off the trailer? I was thinking of the bundles being lengthwise on the trailer......how would you be able to load them crossways if you have a tailgate and dovetail?


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

Around here people either hand stack on wagon, use a kicker, round bale, or big square. Never seen an accumulator, bandit, baron, or whatever else in action. The efficiency at which you guys put up small squares is pretty cool.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Not bad I have crushed concrete floors and the forks slide right under


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

FarmerCline said:


> I would be on asphalt in the barn and unloading the trailer would be on super hard packed dirt.....can take a forklift over it right after it rains. How hard is it to slide the forks under the bundle without it being pushed off the trailer? I was thinking of the bundles being lengthwise on the trailer......how would you be able to load them crossways if you have a tailgate and dovetail?


I use a squeeze in the field, my operators are older and it is very easy to pick and stack with. The bundles are very stable loaded across the bed.

It sounds like a forklift might work well for you if you already have one or have other use for one.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

SVFHAY said:


> I use a squeeze in the field, my operators are older and it is very easy to pick and stack with. The bundles are very stable loaded across the bed.
> It sounds like a forklift might work well for you if you already have one or have other use for one.


 I do already have a good forklift that gets used almost daily loading and moving various things at my grandpas hardware store just down the hill from the house and barn. That's why I was thinking if I could use it to handle the bundles at the barn rather than having to invest in a skid steer it would work out really well. I am already going to have to invest in a loader tractor to have in the field and was trying not to have to buy 2 machines to load square bales.

The squeeze.....I'm assuming that is something that mounts to a loader rather than a spear or forks?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, need aux out at the bucket....stacking them in that fashion is both stable, and max load capability....being that I don't have one, I load length size from the side, but with a special homemade spear....much easier than forks when working with a FEL.....in that case it would be great if that trailer was 24'....but whatever ya got will work, just less bundles......in so far as a forklift, I too used one and it was great with shallow slip forks.....but it was limited to concrete...no crush and run for this smooth tire low clearance forklift, depends on the tires really.....forks work well on skid steers, forklifts, telehandlers, and such......pita with a FEL.....

And btw, I make 40-42" bales for stacking purposes.....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Yes, need aux out at the bucket....stacking them in that fashion is both stable, and max load capability....being that I don't have one, I load length size from the side, but with a special homemade spear....much easier than forks when working with a FEL.....in that case it would be great if that trailer was 24'....but whatever ya got will work, just less bundles......in so far as a forklift, I too used one and it was great with shallow slip forks.....but it was limited to concrete...no crush and run for this smooth tire low clearance forklift, depends on the tires really.....forks work well on skid steers, forklifts, telehandlers, and such......pita with a FEL.....
> And btw, I make 40-42" bales for stacking purposes.....


 Yeah, if the trailer was 24' that would make things a lot easier......if it wasn't for the dovetail and tailgate I might be able to let 2 foot of a bundle hang off the back. Let's say if to start off with I didn't get a squeeze and used a homemade spear would 2 bundles lengthwise on each side of the trailer be all I could haul? The truck also has a 12' bed that I could use to haul bundles.

The forklift we have has rubber tires filled with air and as long as it hasn't rained real recently it can even be taken across the grass. Gravel and hard packed dirt is no problem but it has thick forks......probably 2+inches at the back.


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## Leggupfarms (Jun 30, 2014)

I like the inline baler now that I have one. Ran a NH 273 for the last 10 years but it finally has seen betterdays and has been regulated to back up. Bought a case 8530 and love it.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

What brand squeeze?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Most are homemade....if I had one it would be homemade....svf has a pic of his, not a bad project. Think his is pictured on BB website under bundle handling....

@ cline with a 22' you could do 10 bundles depending on axles, tires ect.....


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Ahh Dawg, I thought we agreed on the term "domestically engineered & fabricated"


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Did you use a single ram? Is one side welded or do both move?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

SVFHAY said:


> Ahh Dawg, I thought we agreed on the term "domestically engineered & fabricated"


I stand corrected......most are DEF stuckey


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I've built them both ways, one side stationery with single cylinder or both traveling with2 cylinders. Both traveling is nicer but it gets heavier to build and eats into lift capacity on a smaller machine like a skidloader. This is an issue because bundle is sticking way out there. jdhayfarmer used to have a couple of commercially built units but I bet they were close to 1000 lb . Lots of them out west but most are designed to pick a block of hay and designed for heavy forklift.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

What size twine are y'all using? I'd like to go to 300 bc I still am having some issues with busting twine I'm using 240 now


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

210 on the left knotter 240 on right. Assuming the broken twine is at the corner of bundle, my guess is it is the bales out of the 348 that's cut. The inline bales shouldn't be cut often.Is it happening during handling or are they that way when the bundle hits the ground?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I'll second that....I use 220 on both knotters, rarely have a broke string....but I usually have the density up high on the bales....the twine being closer to the edge on the nh, Deere, lends itself to being cut a little easier....I like the idea of using a different twine on the right side.....I'll have to check into that, good idea...


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Mainly during handling I've adjusted the bundle as much as i can before I feel the bundles stability is too loose. I have noticed the inline hardly ever breaks! Maybe picking them up the way I do is the cause I'm really interested in a squeeze!


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I flip mine on there side they seem more stable... But I do think that's when they are busting I stab them with a double or triple spear


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Right here is the reason I may own an inline in the future. My buddy hasn't noticed broken corner strings yet with his 1840. I probably have 5%. If it is always the same side check strap threading and all points for drag of some kind. Make sure drum brake is releasing freely. Slow down on dumping if ground speed is high. I I wouldn't carry them flipped very far, carry them upright and flip when you get to the trailer. As much as I like a squeeze I don't think that would solve the problem as much as a second inline would.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I am not hardly familiar at all with the workings of a BBandit but I hope to be....when you fellas are talking about breaking/cutting corner bale strings is this done by the metal strapping of the bundles or the Bandit machine itself?

Regards, Mike.


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## Stuckey1 (Jul 9, 2010)

The banding strip. I don't break many but it is frustrating when you do. I still would have the bandit over the baron any day!


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I noticed the bundles we bought, the baron broke the bales while making a bundle. There were broken bales in the middle


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

[quote name="Vol" post="141151" timestamp="1406901471"]

I am not hardly familiar at all with the workings of a BBandit but I hope to be....when you fellas are talking about breaking/cutting corner bale strings is this done by the metal strapping of the bundles or the Bandit machine itself?

Either machine will break a bale that is too long. Once your bale length is set it is extremely rare. The issue with broken corner bales with bandit is more common on NH/ Deere bales. String placement or bale formation on the inline makes a big difference, maybe the others will have an opinion on why.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its how the bands are compressed into the package, the edges of the banding although rolled to reduce the edge, compress the twine and can cut it.

When using steel banding on regular freight you slip cardboard crush pads in to prevent damage on corners, just no practical way to do that with hay.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not crazy, just came across a video on youtube claims 1550 in 4 hours on a JD 336 into baskets. I also have a 336 and know my 348 is faster by about 15-20%. Maybe with both balers in action I'll break 3000 bales a day sometime. We have 6 baskets now so that should help.








slowzuki said:


> Copy and paste from my phone notes less customer info:
> 
> July 12
> -Started baling at 1:15pm
> ...


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## Randy Litton (Jan 21, 2018)

Have used and owned side pick-up balers, NH and Ford. When we started custom baling we went with a Hesston 4570 (15 years) and have up-graded to MF 1840. The in line balers such as the 1840 are less abusive to the clovers. Not as much leaf shatter. I prefer an inline baler. I have never been able to match mfg. advertised max baling rate even in drop on ground because of field size.


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