# Bad Hay What can you do?



## ponytrainer

Question we just recently purchased 38 horse quality coastal round bales and had it hauled in to our place. We discovered that there is mold in the bales. This is what I was told about the hay - *"This is highly fertilized premium horse quality hay it was cut 3 weeks ago. It looks great and smells just like fresh cut hay. It is horse quality hay and clean."*

Has anyone experienced this and if so did you ask for your money back? I don't know if they guy would come and get it and give us our money back as they would have to come back 330 miles to pick it up. I don't know if getting an attorney would do any good. Any thoughts?


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## ponytrainer

When you open the bale there is white dust that comes off on the inside and you can smell the mold, there is quite a bit of it. I have not contacted this person yet as I just found it this evening.


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## Tim/South

Have you had the hay in the dry since it was delivered? If so, then I would call the guy and calmly explain that the hay is molded. You may want to get a Vets opinion as to whether the hay is safe for a horse. That way it is not just your "uneducated" opinion.
Tell him you bought the hay in good faith. You only discovered the mold once feeding a bale.
He may want to drive out and have a look for himself. If other customers have also voiced concerns then he may just make it right with you over the phone.

I normally tend to side with a hay grower over "picky" buyers. But I have learned that not all hay producers are created equal. Some do not intend to misrepresent their product. They just do not know enough about what they are doing yet to present the entire truth.

You are about to find out what kind of man he is.


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## ponytrainer

Yes it has been in a dry place as we've received no rain at all. That is a great idea to get the vets opinion. I don't know if this person will want to drive back to see the hay as he is 330 miles away. I also found out that he is a hay jockey. I will be calling him tomorrow to see what he is willing to do about the hay.


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## Vol

If he is a Jockey, I would call him, give him the facts, and ask for a refund. They are notorious for putting folks off, hoping to eventually discourage the unsatisfied party enough so that they will eventually weary of the situation and quit calling. If he does not refund or replace, it will be a "process" to collect and additional expenses will be incurred.....how much depends on your attorney and your state laws. Most hay jockeys do not know the product that they are selling and to them "its all good". If at all possible, make your hay purchases from the farm source of origination and ask for a guarantee against mold. I give one amongst other things. Sorry for your bad experience....it happens.

Regards, Mike


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## Mike120

[quote* name='ponytrainer' timestamp='1343014542' post='77534']
we just recently purchased 38 horse quality coastal round bales
*[/quote]

I'm sorry that you've had this experience, unfortunately "horse quality" is a VERY subjective description of hay that changes from person to person. I've sold rolled up weeds that I wouldn't feed my own horses to a guy that said he was going to feed them to his. To me, they were "goat quality"; to him, they were "horse quality".

It is possible that your broker may take them back, but I'd put the odds somewhere between slim to none. Sadly, the chances of successful litigation have about the same odds. However if you would like to PM me, I can send you the names of a couple of "Equine Lawyers" here in the State that you can talk to.

My personal experience with equine vets, is that most of them share the same misconceptions about hay as their clients. At A&M they are on the same campus as the forage folks but they rarely talk to each other. One bunch studies what's outside the horse, the other studies the inside.

Just a few thoughts you might consider:

1. Learn something about hay.....it's not all Coastal. Forage is the most important thing in your horse's diet. I see horse/barn owners all the time who insist on high-end Purina/Nutrena feed and then buy the cheapest hay they can find. You get what you pay for. Learn how it's made so you can have a decent conversation with the producers....we make some of the best grass hay in the world here in Texas and they would likely enjoy having an intelligent conversation with a horse owner for a change. This is a good place to learn.

2. Don't deal with brokers unless you absolutely have to....There are good ones, but lots more bad ones. They are just buying other people's hay and reselling it. Often, they never even see what they have sold. Find local producers and don't try to get the cheapest price. You need a consistent supply of quality hay. Most brokers can't give you that, but having a network of quality producers certainly can.

3. Build covered hay storage so you can maintain a 5-6 month inventory (if not more). That's what will give you the time to develop your network of quality producers and respond to local shortages. It also gives you the ability to take truckloads of small or large squares and reduce your shipping costs. You're shipping a lot of air with round bales and they can mold if left outside.

Besides being a "grass farmer" I also own a decent sized H/J barn, so I have to deal with horse owners and other barn owners almost every day. Most barns have very little hay storage and pay much more for hay because they are usually just about to run out, have no idea what quality hay is, and are dependent on a broker who is screwing them. I have to admit that it doesn't bother me that much to see people reap the fruits of their ignorance, but I hate to see the horses suffer because of it.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

If you are lucky enough to get your money back, I doubt that he will spend the money to come and pick it up. I guess you can find someone with cattle and tell them what it is (honestly) and you may get some of your money back in my opinion. Just be upfront. There are a lot of people that will be needing hay this winter in Texas. Mike


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## ponytrainer

Thanks everyone. Well my husband is going to call this guy tonight and see about getting our money back. I took some of the hay to the feed store and they said it was a mixture of prairie, coastal and rye. I paid for pure coastal not a mix! If they guy will not give us our money back then my attorney is going to get involved. Like mentioned already I will probably have to sell this as cow hay and I will definitely be up front with everyone about it's condition. If I can help it I will never deal with a hay jockey again!!!!


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## RockmartGA

I agree with everything Mike120 said above. That's good advice, especially the part about finding a local producer.

You become a "regular" customer for a local producer and most will go the extra mile for you. For example, in years when hay supplies are short, I have held hay off the market because I wanted to take care of my regular customers first.

Unfortunately, I don't think you will have much luck in getting your money back from a broker 300+ miles away. As you said, your only recourse may be to sell this hay to a cattle farmer and chalk up the loss to experience.


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## ponytrainer

Well I did have a local producer that I was buying hay from in fact I purchased hay from this local guy for the last 5 years. I was told by this producer that I was his best customer and he would always treat me right.

The last 2 years he started selling hay out from underneath me and lying to me about different things so I started looking for someone else. I had even brought him 3 other customers and they too started looking because of all the lies. I was forced to start looking for someone else because of him selling hay out from underneath me.

Because of the drought we've had the last 2 years it was hard to find anyone close as the other producers would not sell to people who had not purchased from them before. The local producer has nice hay this year but because of the lies and being undependable I did not want to purchase from him again and I am in the process of looking for someone close to me.


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## RockmartGA

[sup]Sorry to hear about your troubles with the local producer. Didn't think about the drought - that was tough times for a lot of folks in Texas. My brother-in-law lives near Dallas/Ft Worth and was talking about pulling a gooseneck to Ga when he came to visit for Thanksgiving last year and take a load of hay back with him. Luckily, he found a source closer to home - that would have been a long trip pulling a load of hay.[/sup]

[sup]Those guys who wouldn't sell to you during the drought because they were keeping hay for their regular customers might be the ones to start buying from.....[/sup]


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## Mike120

I completely understand what you are going through. Last year I imported a little over $20K worth of Alfalfa and grass hay in addition to what I grew.....many of my fields barely produced anything. However, because I know a fair number of producers and acted early.....with cash....I was able to fill my storage and come into this season with a hay surplus. With some other adjustments, I was able to keep my feeding costs pretty close to normal and all of the horses thrived. All of the hay deals were made with either friends or friends-of-friends, I did have to go pick up some, and I never got any bad hay. Fortunately this year we're probably getting more rain than most of the State and I'm now trying to get hay baled between gully-washers.

Much of my life was spent in Chemical/Pharmaceutical manufacturing. We had almost as many Ph.D chemists in our purchasing department as we did in research. When we decided to "buy" instead of "make", we had to be certain that what we got was the same quality, if not better, than what we would produce ourselves and, that we had redundancy in the supply-chain. The quality of our end-product depended on it and often someone's life depended on our quality and the continued availability. You are choosing to "buy" hay, the most critical component in your horse's diet. You're not going to "make" it so you better be certain you have a decent supply-chain with some redundancy. That takes time and effort but it's certainly worth it in the long run. Good luck!


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