# How is your local NRCS office



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Does anyone have a local NRCS office that actually has employees that work in a timely manner and know what they are doing? I completed an NRCS project in 2009. Took over a year to do the paperwork in a 20k project. I couldnt complain much since it was basically free money....

Currently looking to put up a 40x60 storage building. Township requires I get a letter from NRCS stating I am not a high

concentration animal operation. Emailed the lady I work with at NRCS and provided her all the background info. No response after 3 days. 4th day I call and leave a message. Still no response...

I can only imagine the hassle if I actually needed something more than an exemption letter. Ready to submit a building permit, just waiting on the NRCS...what a pain...


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

No comment!

Ralph


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

My NRCS office is hit and miss. It depends on which person you are dealing with. Overall they are not bad unless you disagree with them


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Our NRCS is great here with energetic folks that are very accommodating. Maybe your staffer is on vacation? I usually go by and do business directly.... but some electronic correspondence.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Got a response. They sent the paperwork. A 4 day turn around isnt bad, but it would be nice if they would COMMUNICATE. How about "Hey, I got your email, I should have your paperwork in a couple days." Oh well, I got what I need so hopefully I wont have to deal with them for another 6 years...


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Our NRCS office is great.

Our area FSA is also top notch. Both agencies bend over backwards to work with people.

I am not certain if this applies across the board but the local NRCS staff has only one full time employee and he serves two counties, has an office in each. When one retired his load was added to another.

The two ladies in our county office are considered part time and paid an hourly wage not much above minimum wage. Both have college degrees and no benefits.


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

The local office is of the same expediency as your average V A hospital . Need to rent the no till drill . No problem..... 
Should be repaired by who the hell knows, if we can figure out where the hell it is. $&@/!


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

We've got a great crew in our NRCS office here. Wasn't always so great according to Dad, but the District Tech in charge of our office now gets things done timely and correctly.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

I went to NRCS one time to look at cost share programs when we switched from row crops to pasture and beef cows... Had heard they had some cost-share money available for certain projects, thought maybe I could get help putting in a pond and windmill or solar water well for cattle, cross-fencing, etc... Well, no, no cost share for ponds and windmills or solar wells-- course with all the "ranchettes" popping up around here, EVERYBODY with five acres would be asking for cost-share to put one in, and they didn't have the money for it. SO, I asked what they DID have...

Turns out, they DID have cost share for cross-fencing, and installing remote watering systems far from the water well... I wanted to divide my 90 acres into quarters, and while the northern two pastures could be watered from a trough near my house and well and the other by my brother's house and well, the third and fourth would be at least a 400 foot run from my parent's place and their water well. SO, we started looking at cost-share programs for that...

SO, the NRCS guy says he'll get me the paperwork. 30 minutes later he comes in with a thick packet hot off the printer of all the requirements. We discussed things a little and I told him my ideas of what I wanted to do-- for the remote water troughs, just install a plastic water line and a couple of large steel water troughs to supply the back pastures... "No", he said, "The requirements are that we come out and measure the length of the run from the well, and then we calculate the size of pipe necessary to prevent pressure drop... know about how long a run it is??
"Yeah, about 400 feet or thereabouts", says I, "Okay", he said, "looks like by the charts you'd need about a 1.75 inch line..." I said, "Well, I planned on just putting a building a metal boot on the back of my subsoiler and installing a pulley at the bottom of it to lay 3/4 inch black poly tubing and laying the line out there myself-- to use that size tubing, I'd have to have a trencher and heavy equipment to lay a line that size... and I didn't want to spend that much money to do that... I don't care if it takes all day to fill the troughs or if the water pressure is
crummy out there, just so long as water runs out of the floats into the tanks..." "Oh, no", he told me, "It's all got to be done to our standards..." Then he launched into a discussion of their standards for troughs... "no metal troughs, we have a contractor that builds concrete troughs to our specifications-- they're double thick concrete to hold up, and he has to deliver them with a roll-off truck because they're so heavy they cannot be moved except by the truck... so you have to have the site prepped beforehand... the requirements are that you dig out a space 2 feet
deep and line it with barrier cloth, then backfill with coarse stone as specified in the paperwork... you have to do this so there is a 6 foot perimeter of stone and ground cloth 2 feet deep all the way around the water trough, then you have to pour a 3 foot concrete "sidewalk" all the way around this, to contain the stone, so the cows don't "rut it up" around the water trough... It will all be inspected and it ALL has to be done our way to our specs, or they will deny the cost share funds..." "So how does the cost-share money work?? I get that up-front?" "NO,you pay
for everything up front, and after it's all in, we'll come out and inspect it, and the paperwork will work its way through the channels, and then you'll be reimbursed afterward at some point..."

"How about crossfencing?" "Yeah, we cost share on that-- the requirements are right here" (at which point he hands me a TWELVE PAGE book of "requirements and specifications" on installing cross-fence to their requirements). "I was thinking of steel posts on 15 foot centers with railroad tie corners and cross-braces for gates and such, and 4 strand Gaucho wire for the crossfence..." "Nope", he said, "won't do... according to the specs you have to use at least 8 inch treated wood posts every 40 feet with four or five steel posts in between, 12 inch treated wood post corners
and gate/gap braces, and at least five strand of heavy barbwire... It all has to be done to our specs to qualify for cost-share reimbursement... Also, cross-fencing is rated at a 25 year lifetime... any time in the next 25 years, NRCS can inspect it, and if the fence has been removed, require repayment of the cost-share funds plus interest on a pro-rated basis..." "Okay", I said... "I'm getting out of row crops, but I'm keeping my old machinery, because frankly, nobody knows the future... I mean, we're selling calves at a dollar a pound NOW, but I've seen 30 cent calves in
my lifetime... who knows what it'll be five or ten years from now?? If the cattle market took a total dump, I'd probably think long and hard about pulling the crossfences up and just plowing it all back up and putting it back in row crops... how does that work??"

"Well", he said, "If you pull the crossfences up, and they decide to inspect you, which might or might not happen-- sometimes they never inspect it again after approving it for cost share, but sometimes they might inspect it every few years, several times, before the "lifetime" of the fence is expired... it's sorta "luck of the draw" so to speak... If they inspect it and you've taken the fence down, they'll require you to repay the cost-share money they paid, with interest, depending on how much of the lifetime of the fence is left... Say you took it down after 5 years and they
inspected and found it removed, you'd have to repay 80% of what we paid you for our half of the cost, plus interest..."

SO, didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that "free money" wasn't as rosy a proposition for us as it first appeared... It would have cost $10,000 to install the water system to meet their "requirements", of which we'd have gotten $5,000 back... I built a boot on my subsoiler and laid 400 feet of 3/4 inch poly tubing with the tractor for less than $300, and then bought a couple big troughs for about $350 a piece, so the whole project cost me about $1,000 my way, and no big "inspections" to deal with... Same thing for the cross-fencing... pushed in T-posts with the loader
across the whole place both ways north/south and east/west meeting in the middle, put four strands of gaucho and gates where I wanted/needed them, and called it good... who knows how much it would have cost me to do it to their specs... more than double I'm sure... so I'd have been losing money, even with the "free money" of NRCS cost-sharing...

Meh... typical big gubmint thinking... let 'em keep it... and of course I don't have to live by their rules, either... If I wanted to pull it all up tomorrow, I could, with no repercussions...

That's my experience, anyway...

Later! OL JR


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yes Luke....not every program thru NRCS is a good one.....I know all about their cost share...was going to do some river bank repair and it was going to cost $60,000 and the Feds were going to contribute 12K....and have me jump thru innumerable hoops....I said no thanks.

But they do have several good programs that can be very beneficial and they have some good wildlife programs that are kinda neat to do if you like that sort of thing.

Much of their funding has been cut dramatically in the last 6 years.....and as always with Fed funding....you have to be very careful or certain programs will cause you much grief and give them too much control of your properties.

Regards, Mike


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

I have no idea how the local NRCS office is. Patrick and I made a decision a few years ago to NOT include the government in any of our business. 90% cost shares of irrigation through EQUIP and so on are hard to pass up but we considered we would be hipocrites to seek funds. Too much government for me!


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

In my area its still big dairy so those guys always get the money first. NRCS loves to put in manure tanks so that they can save the Chesapeake bay from manure run off... 

Neighbor has a flat dairy farm with no natural water and they put in a manure tank for him free of charge.

I have 4 creeks on 80 fenced acres and they wont give me any assistance for a manure stacking shed where I feed the cattle because the feeding area is more than 50 ft from the creek.

I asked them "So If I move the feeding area right next to the creek you will give me assistance on the stacking shed?".

I don't think they liked my attitude....


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I deal with 2 counties both have been pretty good but don't operate the same at all.Just went in for tile permit for a large project.First had to fill out forms at FSA then across the building to NRCS to fill out more forms.Then to the watershed board for more forms to file for the permit and wait for the monthly meeting to get approval.I got the NRCS approval with stipulations in a week,now for the permit to come,meeting was last night so I should know soon.Down stream neighbor could make a fuss not liking 150,000' of tile put in above him.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

luke strawwalker said:


> SO, didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that "free money" wasn't as rosy a proposition for us as it first appeared... It would have cost $10,000 to install the water system to meet their "requirements", of which we'd have gotten $5,000 back...
> 
> ... so I'd have been losing money, even with the "free money" of NRCS cost-sharing...
> 
> Meh... typical big gubmint thinking... let 'em keep it... and of course I don't have to live by their rules, either... If I wanted to pull it all up tomorrow, I could, with no repercussions...


A good example of "TANSTAAFL"!

Ralph


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I have an approved application for a manure storage building that has been waiting 2 years for a nutrient management plan. And one for forest water crossings and timber improvement. Haven't heard boo since it was approved last year. I think its time to give up on them.

I have to call and check, they won't call to update.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Vol said:


> Yes Luke....not every program thru NRCS is a good one.....I know all about their cost share...was going to do some river bank repair and it was going to cost $60,000 and the Feds were going to contribute 12K....and have me jump thru innumerable hoops....I said no thanks.
> 
> But they do have several good programs that can be very beneficial and they have some good wildlife programs that are kinda neat to do if you like that sort of thing.
> 
> ...


Yes, quite true... should have added "YMMV" I guess (your mileage may vary)...

Grass strip, riparian areas, wildlife habitat, etc. type cost sharing programs and such
could be very good-- I dunno, because that's not something I had any need of...

Just relaying MY experience with stuff *I* was trying to work with them on... that's all...

YMMV! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rjmoses said:


> A good example of "TANSTAAFL"!
> 
> Ralph


Yes, quite true... but we pay plenty of taxes, (certainly did years ago when we had gas well income!)
I for one don't have *ANY* qualms about "getting the most out of what's available" if it makes sense
to do so...

Course, at the time, under "Freedom to Farm" program, we were going to get $12,000 in crop payments over
the seven-year program lifetime, guaranteed, before any "deficiency payments" on the cotton, sorghum, and
dab of corn and bean base we had at the time, so I told my grandmother (whom I ran the farm for) "Better
think long and hard about fencing this place NOW-- (crop inputs were going through the ROOF and she was
tired of spending the money necessary to row-crop farm) Right now, program payments from Uncle Sam should
roughly equal the cost of fencing materials and supplies necessary to fence this place-- so essentially
the farm payments will pay to fence it, so basically Uncle Sam is paying for the fence for free... Wait
until the program is gone, and you'll have to pay for the fencing out of pocket..." No brainer to me, and
that's what we eventually did...

Best decision we ever made IMHO... first couple years I about went nuts not having to get all the equipment
in shape for planting season, cultivating, spraying, harvesting, land work, etc... And not being in the field...
Still miss the fun of just working in the field on the tractor, when everything was working right (yeah, right,
how often was THAT?? LOL) Why I enjoy so much going up to help my BIL in Indiana with his planting and harvest...
I get to play with his bigger, nicer "toys" and don't have the hassle of keeping it all fixed and running and
figuring out how to pay for it all, plus I make a little on the side for helping... 

A year like this year, though... Rained "normally" from January to early March, then flooded until July 2, turned
off like a faucet, got 100 degrees plus, now the waist-high grass the cows were fat and happy in a couple months ago
is brown and dry and we're under burn bans... FINALLY got an inch or two of rain over the past week or so...

Don't know exactly how the corn turned out; they harvested while we were in Indiana. Some milo looked pretty good
just before we left (harvested right behind the corn) and some was a total loss-- all in the land and when it was planted...
Soybeans look like pretty much a total bust around here this year, and cotton look anywhere from "Crap" to "pretty decent", but
given the prices, "pretty decent" will be lucky to make breakeven... My wife asked me "you ever miss planting cotton?"

"Not on a year like this-- not by a LONG SHOT!!!" BIL's corn in Indiana looks "meh" so far, not the worst I saw up there, but
certainly not the best either... kind of middle of the road, and this year "middle of the road" probably won't be very good... and
with low grain prices... at least he's got insurance! LOL (for all the good it ever did me! Hope his luck's better!) Beans look
pretty darn good up there, at least they did when I left... they were a little below normal, then starting in early June it rained
constantly and just played heck with everything... finally dried up some in July and was getting dry when we left a couple weeks ago,
but I think they've gotten some decent rain since then, hopefully enough to make the grain... sure the yields will be off, on corn
especially, though...

Wisdom I've learned on Hay Talk-- "I'll take too much rain over drought any day-- nothing grows in the dust!"
Bit of my own-- "I'll take too much rain too-- no good for crops, but at least the cows have "four wheel drive"... LOL

Later! OL JR


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