# Any hay dealers on here?



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Hey I'm hoping to talk to some hay dealers and ask some questions. Thinking about starting to export to fl and other places and I have never done it before. Don't really know where to start


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I doubt you'll find any of those on here....what makes you think that?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Lol I figured most guys are producers not dealers. It would be good if there are some. My buddy tells me in Florida hay is selling high. Doesn't hurt to ask


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It is, it's a logistics game.....lots of trucks running vegetables out of south Florida, would have to back haul down to them in those trucks.....otherwise the trucking is just too expensive for a commodity like hay. Hth, Florida is a looooong way.....lets put it like this, I'm 60 miles from the Florida line and I sell very little hay in Fl. Now granted, T&O and Lucerne are all the rage to the snowbirds that inhabit the peninsula and it brings premium dollars.....


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

That's what I'm told. Small bales of alfa/Tim are selling for 17 a bale he said. Beats what we get up here by a long way. Should be able to find lots of back hauls


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I'm a producer and have a buyer that hauls my hay to Florida. He found me through Craiglist. I had other inquirys but never the quantity to make it worth their time til a few years ago. They are very particular with the way it looks, smells and size of bales can be an issue. Mine are on the longer size and weigh a bit more but he is still taking them. I get paid the same as if I sold it locally. I don't know what he makes per bale. He picks up hay from several farms and delivers some directly to his customers and some goes to feed stores. He will take as much 2nd cutting + I can make.

If you have the quantity I would try advertising or you can use https://www.searchtempest.com/and you can try searching for buyers on Craiglist.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

That's good to know. I wasn't sure how it worked if they just made commision or what. I might just stick to the local race track. I have to truck it down but it's $9 a bale. Only 45 miles


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

ontario hay man said:


> That's good to know. I wasn't sure how it worked if they just made commision or what. I might just stick to the local race track. I have to truck it down but it's $9 a bale. Only 45 miles


I think that's a much better gig....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

IH 1586 said:


> I'm a producer and have a buyer that hauls my hay to Florida. He found me through Craiglist. I had other inquirys but never the quantity to make it worth their time til a few years ago. They are very particular with the way it looks, smells and size of bales can be an issue. Mine are on the longer size and weigh a bit more but he is still taking them. I get paid the same as if I sold it locally. I don't know what he makes per bale. He picks up hay from several farms and delivers some directly to his customers and some goes to feed stores. He will take as much 2nd cutting + I can make.
> 
> If you have the quantity I would try advertising or you can use https://www.searchtempest.com/and you can try searching for buyers on Craiglist.


Really I wouldn't think you could make all that much more then if you were selling locally no matter what. There is a reason they would come a distance to buy hay. Either price or type of hay. The trucking company makes some money (or the guy if he owns his own trucks). Then in your case the guy makes some selling to stores or his customers. If you would want to make more money you could hire the truck and then ship directly to customers or stores. If you wanted to go through the trouble of finding those customers and taking the chance they would pay and not reject your hay for some silly reason.

I have thought about advertising my grass hay in Florida on craigslist. But I would have to advertise it about the same price as here plus whatever shipping costs are and hope that it is less then other other advertisements to get the inquiries. Then take the risk of shipping and trusting someone that probably isn't going to see the hay in person. And it would be a large amount.

I always figure if someone from a distance wants a regions hay they will search it out. Plus I can sell all my hay locally and not deal with the risk of long distance sales. But then that is my market. Which I think is higher then a lot of your markets. I see people from Minnesota, Illinois, Kansas advertising hay for sale here in Colorado for less then locals charge, but add in shipping and its about the same price. But people get all excited with those lower prices. Until they find out they can't just buy 10 bales, but need a semi order. ha ha.

There is a lady in Texas that I have talked to a couple times that wants orchard/brome hay for her special goats. She lives near Dallas. She is always on the Colorado hay facebook pages asking for hay. Everytime I've talked to her she wants samples overnighted to her and wants a quantity discount. She used to demand the hay seller to arrange shipping, but now she says she will arrange that. And will she pay more then local for hay? NOOOO. She is a hassle that I guess no one thinks its worth dealing with her. She always says she wants 3 semi loads.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Teslan said:


> Really I wouldn't think you could make all that much more then if you were selling locally no matter what. There is a reason they would come a distance to buy hay. Either price or type of hay. The trucking company makes some money (or the guy if he owns his own trucks). Then in your case the guy makes some selling to stores or his customers. If you would want to make more money you could hire the truck and then ship directly to customers or stores. If you wanted to go through the trouble of finding those customers and taking the chance they would pay and not reject your hay for some silly reason.
> 
> I have thought about advertising my grass hay in Florida on craigslist. But I would have to advertise it about the same price as here plus whatever shipping costs are and hope that it is less then other other advertisements to get the inquiries. Then take the risk of shipping and trusting someone that probably isn't going to see the hay in person. And it would be a large amount.
> 
> ...


The guy buying mine lives about hour away in New York hauling to Florida every other week year around. He sometimes has up to 5 different types of hay from just as many farms. It's another outlet for me. I doubt I would be move the 3100 bales of 2nd I had without him. I also lucked out that he is taking the 1000+ plus of my clover/grass 1st cutting made the 2nd week of Aug.

I really doubt I want the headache of searching out a good trucking company then searching out customers then deal with getting paid. I have that issue with locals. Semi comes and cash in hand.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

IH 1586 said:


> The guy buying mine lives about hour away in New York hauling to Florida every other week year around. He sometimes has up to 5 different types of hay from just as many farms. It's another outlet for me. I doubt I would be move the 3100 bales of 2nd I had without him. I also lucked out that he is taking the 1000+ plus of my clover/grass 1st cutting made the 2nd week of Aug.
> 
> I really doubt I want the headache of searching out a good trucking company then searching out customers then deal with getting paid. I have that issue with locals. Semi comes and cash in hand.


No I wouldn't want that headache either. Which accounts for the higher hay prices say in Florida. The headache cost.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Don't let any of us old grumps talk you out of your dreams. The are some people that make a good living from that Florida market.

It is the big leagues though. Your competition has been working out the freight challenges for years and the prices quoted are true and even higher but that premium product is in dense packages that may not compare to yours.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Have the high price long distance market here too, but they are relatively low volume. The horse owners 1600 km (1000 miles) North of me pay about $10 a bale more than the local price. There is no backloading available so all transport is at premium freight.

I have a truck and trailer setup that can cart up to 376 (18 Bandit packs).

At a round trip of 3200 km (2,000) miles the economies do not add up. I used to cart for $2.00 per km ($3.20 per mile) loaded. I now want a minimum of $2.50 per km ($4.00 per mile) loaded. The furthest I have carted hay is 400 km (250 miles) although buyers have arranged their own transport and done the 1600 km or 1000 mile delivery.

A 376 bale load at $10 per bale extra gives a gross income on transport of $3760. The loaded cartage charge was (1000 miles x $3.20 = $ 3,200). Not enough. At $4.00 per mile it is $ 4,000 but I have at least 2 night's accommodation to pay for. Our diesel prices are much higher than in the US, especially in a remote area like I am referring to, for example today on that trip average fuel price is around $1.45 per litre (approx $5.80 per US gallon) and only about 10 mpg average for the return trip because of expected strong quartering headwinds on the outbound or loaded leg.

Quartering winds are really tough coming in at about 45* and thus giving maximum resistance not only on the truck but also cacti the trailer, they are a real PIA.

My advice is to look really closely at the economics and assess the risks.I can see you are doing the preliminary work by asking advice on HT. You the need to list all of the issues identified by HT members and yourself. Give careful consideration and remember the two related old adages:
If it looks too good to be true.................then it probably is: and

If there is so much money to be made .........Why is everyone not doing it?

If there is a chance of rejection of the load, then at least one risk factor is perhaps too high to go ahead. Long distance hay orders are cash before loading if I am to deliver, the the risk is then theirs; or cash on loading onto their transport.

Good luck with your deliberations and lets know the outcome.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

SVFHAY said:


> Don't let any of us old grumps talk you out of your dreams. The are some people that make a good living from that Florida market.
> 
> It is the big leagues though. Your competition has been working out the freight challenges for years and the prices quoted are true and even higher but that premium product is in dense packages that may not compare to yours.


Lol I don't think it's really worth it. I wasn't sure how they bought it if it was just on commission. I think I will stick to the local race track. I'm guaranteed to get paid there ( if they don't pay I put the bill into the stewards and they take it off their race winnings) we sold a farm last year so we are getting geared up with a baron and a couple new bakers so we will have a lot more hay but I'm sure I can market it all here. I just like knowing the options and what is more profitable


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

I've shipped several loads to FL over the years, but the hardest part is finding a trustworthy customer to begin with. I hire out the shipping (found a guy that gets things set up for me) and it is usually between $3,000 and $3,250 for a van trailer. The buyer is paying all the shipping plus the at-the-barn price for my hay. I usually have them send a deposit for half the shipping plus some on the hay before it's loaded out. The half of the shipping goes to the driver (in cash) so they can pay for fuel, etc. on the way down. The balance of the shipping is paid by the customer when the load arrives. The customer then has 30 days to get the balance of what they owe to me.

I've found a lot of my customers by using the website hayexchange.com, but be ready for scammers as soon as you post an ad. I'd recommend setting up an email account specifically for the hay sales to avoid getting all of the spammer crap that comes along with advertising online. Hayexchange.com also has an area where people looking for hay can post wanted ads that you can respond to. There are a couple of other sites as well including one put together by a haytalk member, but I can't seem to find my list at the moment.

I always send a sample of the hay via UPS to any potential customer while setting up the sale. If they don't want it, I let them know there are no refunds, returns, etc. A 18x14x12 box from the UPS store will fit 3 to 4 flakes of a bale pretty nicely and costs $20 to $25 to send to FL.

A couple of other things I've learned:

1) If you are a small operation like me (50 to 60 acres in production), then don't put all your eggs in the FL basket. I had a really good customer down there that was taking all my small squares who then decided to sell his operation. I was stuck with about 2,000 bales to move right towards the end of winter and it wasn't fun.

2) Most builders of horse stables in FL are dumb... they don't build enough storage space for a full trailer load of hay which leave you having to do split loads with a couple customers or something along those lines. Just an FYI, shippers charge extra for double stops unless they are right near each other.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Josh in WNY said:


> 2) Most builders of horse stables in FL are dumb... they don't build enough storage space for a full trailer load of hay which leave you having to do split loads with a couple customers or something along those lines. Just an FYI, shippers charge extra for double stops unless they are right near each other.


The guy taking mine has people taking any where from 10 bales to a couple hundred every time he goes down. I don't know how it's set up nor do I want to know but I would like to think he just parks in one place and they come to him. He talks of people bringing their hired help to load a couple bales in the back of their Mercedes.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

A load left here for west Palm today, wasn't my deal I was helping a friend. I do know freight was $2700 which wasn't all that bad.

If you guys are following freight rates you've seen a spike the last month or so. The economy is doing well and the eld mandate has thinned a few trucks out. Freight forecast for the year looks pretty high.

I wonder if it will eventually add enough cost that "local" hay will be more acceptable in some of these premium marketplaces?


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

I sell most of my hay in a 10 mile radius of the home farm I don't have the time or the need for long distance sales. You would be money ahead to get a full time job instead. The economy is picking up good time to find off farm employment.IMO


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Beav said:


> I sell most of my hay in a 10 mile radius of the home farm I don't have the time or the need for long distance sales. You would be money ahead to get a full time job instead. The economy is picking up good time to find off farm employment.IMO


We would all be money ahead if we worked off the farm. Already did that for 8 years and put all the money into retirement and building up equip. so I don't have to work off the farm.

You should be more supportive than telling us poor hay sellers to get a real job.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

IH 1586 said:


> We would all be money ahead if we worked off the farm. Already did that for 8 years and put all the money into retirement and building up equip. so I don't have to work off the farm.
> 
> You should be more supportive than telling us poor hay sellers to get a real job.


I got you by a few years 4 or 5 more and I am done


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Josh in WNY said:


> .....
> 
> 2) Most builders of horse stables in FL are dumb... they don't build enough storage space for a full trailer load of hay which leave you having to do split loads with a couple customers or something along those lines. Just an FYI, shippers charge extra for double stops unless they are right near each other.


Horse stable builders in Florida do not have an exclusive mortgage on dumb. it is obviously a sickness that afflicts stable builders/designers worldwide I do not have an antidote.....yet, and none even in the longer term outlook.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Coondle said:


> Horse stable builders in Florida do not have an exclusive mortgage on dumb. it is obviously a sickness that afflicts stable builders/designers worldwide I do not have an antidote.....yet, and none even in the longer term outlook.


I had a feeling that was true, but only have experience with Florida. How's the hay doing down under?


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Josh in WNY said:


> I had a feeling that was true, but only have experience with Florida. How's the hay doing down under?


This season (Cutting done in October 2017) proved to be my worst ever both in regard to quality and quantity per acre, but prices are up a little.

Rain was late starting and not much until near the end of the growing period. One of the downsides of living on the edge of a desert.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I look at this way the further away your customer the harder to fix a problem ,if you only have to go down the road you can always take it home but when it,s 1,200 miles plus your got problems ,ask the export boys why all their hair is gray


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

We ship quite a bit of hay to Florida. Mostly dry vans, which we love loading because we don't have to wonder if it's going to be properly tarped. We ship some via railroad, I don't know what the buyer pays for that freight, but it must be fairly cheap. As with any customer, money talks, and if they are willing to pay top dollar, then we are willing to send it to them.


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