# Is this a sound game plan for this year?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So I'm starting my 3rd full year of making hay. Have about 130 acres worth of various quality hay. I can probably make about 1000- 1100 4x5 round bales total. My biggest drawback is I can only store about 150 inside at any given time. I can tarp maybe 50 more. 
Last year I felt I made some mistakes. Biggest one was I put the nicest of my 1st cutting hay in my barn and there it sat. When 2nd cutting was done, it mostly sat outside because there's almost 0 customer purchasing done in summer. All of it ended up going to mushroom plant except for 1st cut hay in barn, which was sold for good money. Some outdoor stored hay was also sold for good money-it only got rained on 1-2 times AFTER baling and was tapped. Mushroom plant pays about $100/ton. Indoor stored hay brings about $180/ton. Unfortunately I do not have an opportunity (yet) to acquire more indoor storage. 
Here is what I propose to do this year:
Fertilizing as I type with 30% nitrogen also spread compost on all my fields. Should get heavy yield. I will cut ALL this hay and sell ALLto mushroom. Should be close to 600 4x5 RB. 
Fertilize immediately after 1st cut. After second cutting stuff the 125 best of my 2nd cut into barn. Tarp another 50 or more and send the worst of 2nd cutting to mushroom plant. 
2nd mistake was spraying weeds before 1st cut (was hoping to clean up hay and sell as better hay). All I ended up doing was lowering yield for average quality hay going to mushroom plant and spending $ on 24D.
What I propose doing this year is spray before 2nd cutting to make nicer quality hay, knowing it will cut my yield maybe 20% (guess) and trying to push more hay hard with advertising during 2nd cut. 
I know there's lots of other factors, global warming, rain/drought, politics, locusts....
Sound like a plan, or am I totally off base?


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Throughout the course of the upcoming season it's anybody's guess as to when things will change. Here in the East last year where we live there was a shortage of rainfall later in the summer hay is strong demand right now. Sometime after the new crop start coming in that will probably change.. I am thinking instead of doing $80 per ton for mulch . You may be able to get 150 to 160selling the first cutting immediately after it is baled.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Thats rough, I have room for 1100 in storage, still hard to decide what gets left out in a better year. Sometimes I've taken a lot of the first cutting out of a building and store it under tarps then refill with later cuttings. I do try to push the first cutting just in case I need the room later.

Last year was easy, with all the rain by time I could finally finish first cutting it was getting a coarse and outside it went in rows for the beef cows.

If I remember right you don't have room at home for additional storage? When you do I've been real happy with our hoop buildings for hay storage, not sure about your area but in our county they are considered temporary and are not added to the property tax rolls.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Sounds reasonable. One question. What about repeat customers who call for first cutting? Is it worth burning that bridge?


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Also, what limits your tarped number?


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

If you don't fill your barn with dry first cut you better pray you get good dry second cut...

I would look HARD for more storage or try a different market approach for your first cut rounds.

People will buy hay in the summer but it has to be priced right.

Hay auction the first cut and try to hook up with some of the jockeys and customers that need hay year round

Advertise. Did you run an ad in Lancaster farming? You can deliver which is a big plus.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm leery of tarps, might work great in dryer climates. Our last hay tarp went to hell awhile back and I have no plans on replacing them.


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Tarps work ok here till we get a wind storm with 60+ mile an hour winds and than the tarp might be in the next county.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

hog987 said:


> Tarps work ok here till we get a wind storm with 60+ mile an hour winds and than the tarp might be in the next county.





mlappin said:


> I'm leery of tarps, might work great in dryer climates. Our last hay tarp went to hell awhile back and I have no plans on replacing them.


I wasn't really in favor of tarps either but if he's willing to risk 50, I just wondered what limited that to 50.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I would fill barn with good first cut and not sell until second cut was a sure thing. If I lived as close to mushroom market as you I wouldn't tarp a bale, freakin tarps. I think an ad in Lancaster farming before you start cutting would be a great idea, don't see wasting time at auction in the summer though, too much to do. For me storage pays back quicker than machinery upgrades.

I think your right on with the herbicide plan. Spraying hay fields in spring has minor economic returns here. Late summer results are much better.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

You might want to get some of your hay tested and sell it as tested hay. Try getting hooked up with a couple dairy guys up my way. They buy hay year round...


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> If you don't fill your barn with dry first cut you better pray you get good dry second cut...
> I would look HARD for more storage or try a different market approach for your first cut rounds.
> People will buy hay in the summer but it has to be priced right.
> Hay auction the first cut and try to hook up with some of the jockeys and customers that need hay year round
> Advertise. Did you run an ad in Lancaster farming? You can deliver which is a big plus.


I have only seen one drought here in the last 10 years. We usually have more problems with excess rain than drought. Rivers, streams and water everywhere around here. 
When you say "buy hay in summer but it must be priced right", I can sell all the hay I want in summer, for ~$45/bale to mushroom. Some guys think that's good money (I don't), but I can get $75/bale in winter easily. Very tough to find $75/bale buyers in summer HERE. 
Been looking for storage, but not having much success. Sadly, not a lot of barns left around here actually used for farming. 
Never had much luck with pallets/tarps, but I don't think I have bought good tarps. 
I'd like to invest in some of the good quality tarps. If 59 bales are under tarp and get $75 instead of 50 left outside selling for $45 to mushroom, I make $1,500 more. Not bad. 
It's not that I put newer equipment as a priority over a barn, there just aren't any barns around that can be rented. 
My wife and I search every day for a small farm where zoning codes would allow us to build a pole barn. 
Needle in a haystack. 
Where are the best prices on the higher quality hay tarps?


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Here's the other thing. Second cutting hay is much nicer. Last year I filled barn with first. It was a little stemmy. Tougher to sell-more effort and price concessions. Nicer second sat outside and most got ruined. Not all 2nd cut is great hay, so not so great 2nd goes to mushroom, too. 
Best 150-200 go in barn and under tarps. 
700 1st cut no spray @ $45=$ 31,500
200 2nd cut sprayed @ $75=$ 15,000

Of course I'd like to do better than that, but my situation is what it is until more storage is acquired.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD If you do not subscribe to the "Lancaster Farming Newspaper"(goes out every week ) , I would highly recommend it .


----------



## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

I can really relate JD cause I do small squares, but my phones been blowin up from people in south east pa, down to NJ and MD people wanting my small square of 2nd and 3rd cut for $7/bale. Sure wish I had some left to sell. I have such big orders for this year im sure I won't fill them all. I've been buying and resaleing local guys hay the last 2 months. I'm looking at putting a 40x60x14 to a 50x80x14. Sounds like tarping would be your best bet for now.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

endrow said:


> JD If you do not subscribe to the "Lancaster Farming Newspaper"(goes out every week ) , I would highly recommend it .


Do they mail out samples?

Regards, Mike


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

[quote name="Vol" post="167587" timestamp="1428199385"]Do they mail out samples?

Regards, Mike[/http://www.lancasterfarming.com/]


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Never had much luck with Lancaster farming. Ran ad mid summer and only got one call. I know that's a bad time of year to sell hay and there was hundreds of ads for hay. 
Have better luck with CL.
Heck I don't really need to advertise at all anymore. 
I need a hay barn REAL BAD.


----------



## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

We do herbicide applications on some of our first cut ground and see positive results. 90% of our first cut hay is into small squares for horse market, other 10% is mid-size squares (3x3) for horse market. Almost always pays to do the herbicide pass if the field has strong weed pressure.

The mushroom guys don't bark at you for bringing 2nd cut grass hay? Any other time I've heard them scream bloody murder on that stuff because it doesn't absorb water in the pile like the 1st cut OG or Tim does.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Never had much luck with Lancaster farming. Ran ad mid summer and only got one call. I know that's a bad time of year to sell hay and there was hundreds of ads for hay.
> Have better luck with CL.
> Heck I don't really need to advertise at all anymore.
> I need a hay barn REAL BAD.


If the goal is to get more money out of first cutting than is currently being paid out mid-summer for mushroom mulch, what option is there other than to advertise more? One unsuccessful ad during one summer does not a failure make.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Another thought for you storage wise for your second cut. Place the 2nd cut bales on end on pallets then place some mushroom hay on top. It may buy you some time till you sell some.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Lancaster Farming ads are hit or miss,but if you gain one good customer it can be worth it...


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Ever think about putting that silage special feature to use? Maybe try a small batch and see

That is if you have cattle around that area


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bgriffin856 said:


> Ever think about putting that silage special feature to use? Maybe try a small batch and see
> 
> That is if you have cattle around that area


I think the mushroom bales are already pretty heavy (at least compared to the marshmallows they sell down the road). I'm cranking the pressure on them and making 'em 900lbs or better. I bought the sileage special thinking baler would last longer making mid weight bales.

Are you suggesting I start wrapping bales? I havent seen much demand for wrapped sileage bales, but you'd have a hard time finding out what to sell them for. Id have to get $75-80 to really make it worthwhile

Would really help with indoor storage issues though!!!!


----------



## lidaacres (Oct 11, 2014)

One thing I would consider is just wrapping the bales dry with less layers of plastic. We do that with our straw so we can open up shed space and it works great. Put on 2-3 layers (half or less than silage bales). Not the cheapest option but you have a shed to put them in until you can wrap them and they would keep the same.


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

You should get one of those green balers with the B-wrap and than tell us how good it works.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

JD3430 where are you located? I see your profile just says PA/DE.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm between Montchanin & Chadds Ford.


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I think the mushroom bales are already pretty heavy (at least compared to the marshmallows they sell down the road). I'm cranking the pressure on them and making 'em 900lbs or better. I bought the sileage special thinking baler would last longer making mid weight bales.
> Are you suggesting I start wrapping bales? I havent seen much demand for wrapped sileage bales, but you'd have a hard time finding out what to sell them for. Id have to get $75-80 to really make it worthwhile
> Would really help with indoor storage issues though!!!!


Yep wrapping them. Im not so sure of wrapping them dry as the hay would need to be bone dry as to not cause sweating and mold/mildew


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

One thing you could do although it make be some work. Is to fill storage with first cutting try to sell it and if not move it outside and fill with second if your able to make it. Lots of variables in getting second made and atleast you'd have something stored if worse comes to worst


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bgriffin856 said:


> One thing you could do although it make be some work. Is to fill storage with first cutting try to sell it and if not move it outside and fill with second if your able to make it. Lots of variables in getting second made and atleast you'd have something stored if worse comes to worst


That's a good point. I did talk to mushroom hay buyer today. He promised me he'd take all the first cutting I could bale. I'm real tempted to bale all the first and just leave it outside unless I get some really nice 1st, which would go in barn. Anything marginal stays outside.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Couldn't you put first cut in the barn let it dry and sweat then if you have second cut that needs to go in pull first cut out and wrap it? Once it sweats and is "dry" I would think it would be fine wrapped...


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't like sweating hay inside. Safer outside.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

So you let all your hay sweat outside, then dry completely from any rain before putting it inside?


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, letting hay sweat inside increases risk of fire. I always let my hay sit outside a few days just in case. 
Now if it was high quality little bales, I'd probably pull the wagons inside then stack em.
You do know I make 4x5 round bales,,, right?


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Here's the other issue I didn't get to touch on:
If I decide to commit to making all my 1st cut (but the very best 150 bales that will fit in small barn) mushroom hay, my buyer want me to let it grow past maturity, cut, let it bake until brown in the sun, then bale it up. Basically the exact opposite of what we want to do.
Reason is that it helps them get the hay a step closer to decaying into mulch.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Here's the other issue I didn't get to touch on:
> If I decide to commit to making all my 1st cut (but the very best 150 bales that will fit in small barn) mushroom hay, my buyer want me to let it grow past maturity, cut, let it bake until brown in the sun, then bale it up. Basically the exact opposite of what we want to do.
> Reason is that it helps them get the hay a step closer to decaying into mulch.


That's what they want. Not surprising. The benefit to that is you can stop wasting your time with tedder passes and stress. Why do something the hard way that can be done the easy way? The downside is you're going to have less opportunity for second cutting. On the other hand, if you wait really late, like late July or August late, you don't have to worry about weeds in your second cutting. You could hit it with some nitrogen going into fall and shoot for what will essentially be third cutting, even though it's only technically second. You can use this whole scenario to your advantage... Unless your landowners don't like it.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Smaller quantity of "good" hay, too and that's where the money is, but if I cant store it indoors, it's pretty pointless to fuss over making good hay and then leaving it outside.

If I do it the way you describe, I'd probably have 800 $45 bales and 200 $75 bales and a lot less stress. 
Gr Profit $51,000 IF everything goes as a typical season.


----------



## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

They make some decent tarps that with stand winds , but you will need to tighten up the rachet straps regular . I am not sure of the brands but lots of tarpped big bale stacks around here, far as round bales pyramid stack them and tarps work good . I think the tarps I have are 16' x54' , I will even put small squares on top of them to help keep the wind from getting under them. btw if anybody has ever been in my neck of the treeless plains knows that it is always windy here........................


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Well my plans just changed!!!

Old customer wants to buy 350 RBs per year starting with first cutting. She will pay me $200/ton delivered (45miles).

Now I have to shift gears and start thinking about making nicer hay!!!,
A good problem to have.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Congratulations, I would be pretty happy with those terms. Her storage or yours?


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It'll be both. She can hold 100 at a time. I've got to get more storage (been saying that for 3 years)


----------

