# 5600 ford in frame or full rebuild short or long block



## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

79 5600 FORD TRACTOR with 233ci diesel 12,000 plus hours lots of blow by not much oil consumption if any. Hard starting and down on power. Looked around for short block 233ci few and far between but 256ci are plentiful. Will the 256 bolt up front and rear where the 233 was? Should I just do a full rebuild on the 233? I did learn the 233 does not have liners and I thought all modern diesel engines had liners but from what I am told the 233 does not.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I will guess if your engine has 12,000 hrs of use that cylinders will require boring if no cylinder liners are present which will rule out an in-frame overhaul. Dry cylinder liners are listed in 5600 PC. My Ford 6700 I've owned for many yrs had recently had a crate engine installed due to cavitation hole in cylinder wall prior to my purchasing it. Other modern diesels such as my Kubota M7040 don't have engine cylinder liners.








New Holland 5600 - 4 CYL AG TRACTOR(01/75 - 12/81) Parts


New Holland 5600 - 4 CYL AG TRACTOR(01/75 - 12/81) Parts



www.messicks.com


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

seventyfourci said:


> I did learn the 233 does not have liners and *I thought all modern diesel engines had liners* but from what I am told the 233 does not.


There are a number of modern diesels that do not have liners. A very notable example is the Cummins B series. “Parent bore” is what they call these engines. The concept does not put me off as I have noted that a significant number of engine problems/failures come from the liners, especially wet liners. The downside of a parent bore engine is the need to rebore the cylinders vs replace sleeves. I think it is a good trade in the end.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Lots of blowby and no oil consumption probably means your oil is getting diluted with fuel. Time to do something.

Ralph


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

There is noticeable change in viscosity of the oil and no smell of diesel. I really think the compression rings are stuck on one or more pistons.


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

Jim the 256 has liners the 233 in the early 5600 do not show any


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks for explanation. I have a difficult time deciphering parts descriptions in Ford/NH parts catalogs. I wonder why my 6700 required a crate engine due cavitation hole in cylinder wall because it's listed to have 256 cid or 268 cid engine?


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

Were you running a coolant conditioner and is that cavitation or electrolysis?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Engine was replaced before I purchased the 6700


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

Are you running a coolant conditioner at this time? If not I would look into one might save you a short block.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Make sure you dip check your coolant every year with coolant testing strips to keep up on the conditioner required. This will keep any future cavitation problems at bay.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Checking coolant condition is very important. I put Cool-Gard in my tractors cooling systems


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Tough call on 12,000 hour tractor, what condition the rest of the tractor is in with that many hour?. I would guess possibly broken rings, head needs work, crank would need to be checked. How much are you willing to spend 1 2 3 4 5 $10,000? Might have 4 to 5 if you do the work maybe close to 10 if someone else does it all? Also would do the clutch if it hasn't been done recently while apart.


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

The tractor is sound which a sound tractor can always jump up and bite you on the ass hell a new tractor just out of warranty can jump up and bite you on the ass. I am not going to buy a new tractor and buying one I know nothing about does not appeal to me so I am going to rebuild the one I have made friends with. The new flywheel and clutch kit is already in the shop along with a oem hydraulic pump and a seal kit for the steering column. I will do all the work myself. I dont care for the dealer closest to me which is a 100 miles next one about 175 miles and not much better than the closest one. I have built blown alcohol engines, small and big block chevys and fords, hot rod 2 stroke dirt bike and atv motors, Polaris watercraft 2 stroke motors, detroit motors, and the list goes on as long as I can get a service manual with spec sheets they are just nuts and bolts. However I have not built any ford tractor engines. I am hoping any potential pitfalls can be avoided communicating with other hay makers and of course a oem service manual. The 5600 is a tractor that is mechanic friendly and parts are available however they seem to be going up every day. My biggest problem will be finding a warm body to help me split it and finding a local machine shop to do the machine work that is qualified.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Sounds like you know what you are in for. I do agree About putting money in something you already know verses the unknown. And I also agree with keeping this old stuff going when diagnostics and electrical stuff cost so much and can be a pita. Doing your own work is the deal breaker that's why I said $10,000 if you you took it to a shop and have them do all the work. Sounds you you just need to talk with someone that knows those engines. Good luck


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

Danwi That is what I need but have not found him yet and Thank you.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

22 years ago, my 4600 holed a cylinder wall, local machine shop bored, installed liners. Still working very well. Only help needed is to lift engine after split, otherwise 1 man job.


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## the farmer 3 (Jul 12, 2021)

we had a new engine put in our 5600 about 25 ye a r s ago 

im not sure what size they put in it but it is bigger than the old one

might be a 7600 now


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Not sure what parts books you guys are looking at but all the ford 3,4 and 6 cylinder diesels thru the years are parent bore motors. They never left the factory with sleeves.

Its possible to bore out a 233 and put oversize pistons and rings in it... But all these motors are known to suffer cavitation issues and pinhole. I never ever ever overbore as I want as much Iron in there as possible.

If the bores are wore (at 12k hours I'd bet they are) I would get a good machinest to bore the block out and press in the thickest wall sleeve the Mahle catalog has. Then bore out the sleeve to factory dimension and run factory size pistons and rings.

The "kits" that are sold with finished liners are garbage.


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

I could not find any parts in the Mahle catalog for a 5600 ford engine or sleeves of any kind.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Item 21A is referred to as a sleeve & resembles a sleeve in Ford 5600 parts catalog. Parts description states after 10/01/1980


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

The sleeves you need are not engine specific your machine shop will order them by the size they bore the block out to and the size the stock bores need to be. 

I've rebuild probably 25 ford diesels thru the years with either Mahle sleeves or had the machine shop make sleeves.

Any sleeve/liner that you find in a catalog for a ford diesel is most likely junk. Some are designed to go in the stock bores and are paper thin junk.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Those sleeves listed in the parts book are "repair sleeves". They were released after blocks went porus and dealers needed a way to fix them. They require boring the block out and installing a sleeve where one never existed.

They serve the same purpose as a sleeve from Mahle only more costly. Last winter i paid $50 per hole for thick Mahle sleeves made in the USA.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks for explanation, Jim


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## Jerry/MT (Dec 14, 2017)

seventyfourci said:


> Danwi That is what I need but have not found him yet and Thank you.


If you go to yesterdaystractors.com in the Ford Forum, there is a guy named Bern who is a diesel engine instructor at Mount Vernon (WA) Community College that I would consider a Ford tractor expert. He was a long time Ford/New Holland mechanic. I'm sure he could advise you on any pit falls in working on these engines.


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## seventyfourci (May 13, 2014)

Thanks Jerry I will look him up.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto Bern on YT is the go-to Ford person


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