# Pallets for NH 1069 stacker



## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

We have been thinking about making pallets to put on load rack of a NH 1069 stack crusier. Anyone have any advice?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

One of the local guys here does that with a 1037 bale wagon. He has large pallets which he puts over the back load arms, then when he drops the load, its already on a pallet. They're big, though!

Ralph


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I notice by your location that you might be heading to the sale on the 1st? There will be just the pallets that you are looking for on that sale. Basically just 7 2x4 runners and some sort cover on the top. Making the top out of wood is solid and sturdy, but heavy, real heavy. Many of ours are made stictly out of cattle panel lagged fast to the 2x4's. I have some pics on here with the retriever truck we built in my gallery, but it will only pick up stack on pallets, and in that case you need the ones built out of wood. I do not have a picture on here with the cattle panel ones. The ones on the sale use hog barn slats (I think), and as I recall they were sturdy.

Rodney


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> One of the local guys here does that with a 1037 bale wagon. He has large pallets which he puts over the back load arms, then when he drops the load, its already on a pallet. They're big, though!
> 
> Ralph


How does he keep the rolling rack from crushing the pallets that are on the back loan arms?


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Rodney, yes my son and I are thinking about going to the sale on the 1st. Do you live near by? Also was going to look at the grappler they have. Maybe some other hay related items. Is their equipment in good repair and well cared for, or run hard? Thanks Bob


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Teslan said:


> How does he keep the rolling rack from crushing the pallets that are on the back loan arms?


I believe he puts the pallets with the top boards against the load arms, kinda like a forklift fork. (I've never seen him picking bales.)

Ralph


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Take a look here. There is a good picture of the pallets used on a 1033. Would think you could get an idea. Also the YouTube video link in the ad shows them on the wagon while gathering bales.

Not to hijack this thread but does anyone want to comment on the bale wagon? I was considering looking at it.

http://nashville.craigslist.org/grd/3634731925.html


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Bob, who is having a sale?


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Steve Frederick, Berks co pa. The ad is Lancaster farming section B page 26. If you do not get the Lancaster farming you can look it up on their web site, I think it is lancasterfarming.com if not should easy to search. I do not know Steve but looks like a big operation with alot of Equipment for sale.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I do get it. Should bee here tomorrow. I will take a look. Thanks, Mike


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Steve has a lot of nice equipment, much of looks like low usage. He was able to sell a few small parcels of land, and buy new equipment. His brother lives on the farm next to us, and that is the one where he grew up and worked for my dad. I'd guess that his farm is about 10 miles or so from here. The sale bill is online 
http://www.klinekreidergood.com/auction-viewer.php?id=sale_bills_2013/030113c.jpg 

Teslan - I didn't look at the pallets in question, but the only way that they will work is to not have a 'bottom' on them..... I guess you'd more accurately call them skids.

Rodney


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Rodney R said:


> Steve has a lot of nice equipment, much of looks like low usage. He was able to sell a few small parcels of land, and buy new equipment. His brother lives on the farm next to us, and that is the one where he grew up and worked for my dad. I'd guess that his farm is about 10 miles or so from here. The sale bill is online
> http://www.klinekrei...013/030113c.jpg
> 
> Teslan - I didn't look at the pallets in question, but the only way that they will work is to not have a 'bottom' on them..... I guess you'd more accurately call them skids.
> ...


I'm still trying to figure out how pallets would work on the stacker without causing the stack to fall or the pallets to be crushed but I still can't. Maybe I'm just dense or something... Glad I don't have to deal with putting hay on pallets here.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't follow, why would they get crushed, you mean the wire part? They have no bottom plates like a conventional pallet. They just lay over the tines and basically let the wagon pull out from under a load without using push off feet.


Teslan said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how pallets would work on the stacker without causing the stack to fall or the pallets to be crushed but I still can't. Maybe I'm just dense or something... Glad I don't have to deal with putting hay on pallets here.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> I don't follow, why would they get crushed, you mean the wire part? They have no bottom plates like a conventional pallet. They just lay over the tines and basically let the wagon pull out from under a load without using push off feet.


 There are wire parts on pallets? When the rolling rack goes back when the load rack is full of hay those tines have to go in between the tines that are at the very back of the load rack. I'm just not sure how that would happen with pallets hanging on the back tines without the pallets being crushed or the rolling rack not going back all the way which might cause the stack to lean wrong. Maybe it can be done with these little pull types stackers easier then what I'm used to.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

In the video I posted the pallets are on the placed on the rolling rack. It looks like the boards that are on their edge and form the vertical part of the pallet will also fit between the tines at the back of the wagon. Stop the video around 1:54 to see the bottom of the pallet coming back. Maybe SP units are different but I didn't think they were.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Think conventional pallet, pull all the bottom boards off and line the stringers up so they fit through the rolling rack and the non moving tines at the end of the table. As the rolling rack makes it to the rear the stringers stick back further than any of the tines and when unloaded, the stringers hit the ground first.



Teslan said:


> There are wire parts on pallets? When the rolling rack goes back when the load rack is full of hay those tines have to go in between the tines that are at the very back of the load rack. I'm just not sure how that would happen with pallets hanging on the back tines without the pallets being crushed or the rolling rack not going back all the way which might cause the stack to lean wrong. Maybe it can be done with these little pull types stackers easier then what I'm used to.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Teslan,
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.... you're looking at several thousand, in no particular order.








.


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Rodney, can i buy the stuff in middle stack?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Ah. So you put them on the rolling rack! That's the part I wasn't getting. Told you I was feeling dense. Still a pain to put those on every load? but I understand now. Thanks. Your buildings exactly like ours are. As I recall you have Morton buildings right?


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## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Wish I could make it up to the sale. But the fulltime job to support the part-time habit has better ideas for me. Alot of nice looking equipment and wouldnt mind having a dozen or so of those pallets, but the ones pictured above seem easy enough to build.

-Ben


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Enos - you're funny! That's what everybody wants!

Teslan - A dense moment has been had by everybody, and some of us have them several times per day. It is a pain to put them on every load. The ones with the wood are heavy, and the wire ones are unstable when you have a bunch of empty's piled up..... A big pile of those suckers setting around here. Takes a few minutes each load to put one on, and a guy has to plan to get enough out/down/accessible before the day gets hectic. Since we've taken Enos's advice we don't use that many anymore...... I'm going to be looking for the 2nd last bidder on friday! Those aree Morton buildings here.

Rodney


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Rodney, been a year or so, how is asphalt working out for you?


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## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Rodney,

What are you looking to get for the mostly wooden ones? May work good with my new building once its complete.

Thanks,
Ben


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

we did not buy anything at the auction today. Prices seemed high and made me feel better about what I own. NH 1069 diesel nice but not great sold for about $47,000, Pallets looked ok 2x4's on them looked a little rough they sold for around $75 each.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Bob is 100% correct - everything was high priced.

Enos - The asphalt is not 100% but with a little straw chopped on the surface, it does the job. We have sawdust and hay chaff on the floor and that seems to hold a little moisture. Our neighbor (who we talked into asphalt) has straw chopped onto it, and he says that it keeps most things pretty good. I expect that it will also do a better job for us with some straw on it.

Ben - I still use the wooden ones - the ones that are on my list to sell are the wire ones. I will sell a couple wooden ones if the same buyer takes some wire ones. The wooden ones shouldn't be stored outside, on account of the wood soaking up moisture.

Rodney


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Bob, do you or Rodney have any prices to share with us? Wanted to go but I had a previous engagement with crop insurance guy and time is getting close. Mike


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## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Rodney,

Could you send me some dimensions/spacings on the runners for the wood ones you have. just might tinker with building them myself. cant be too difficult.

Ben


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

What moisture are you putting it up at. I run 8 to 12 percent on fescue and timothy 1st cut and 14 on second orchard grass, drop it on a bit of hay chaff, don't waste a bale of bottom.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Those Skids would be handy if you have a cement floor. Darn Handy.

I have a floor that is 4" of septic field rocks. That way the bottom bales stay dry and the machine slides out from the stack, but I need to use the push off Feet.

Ingenious system that. Trouble might be to fill my barn would require about 75 of the skids.

What I see is I could set down a partial stack of alfafal, today, Go load bermudagrass hay tomorrow, and come back and pick up a fresh field of alfafla using the partial stack three days later. I hope I remember this if I every go with a self propelled machine. With that I would only need 36 skids to fill the barn. Hauling a 160 bale load is a lot different than my 1003's 83 bale load.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

why don't you guys use used greenhouse plastic?
we stack 70,000 plus outdoors under tarps with plastic under em and a 2x4 running down the outside of the stack on its flat and our loss rate is less then 1% on any of our bottoms.
most of the greenhouses just give the plastic away if you come and get it.
when i say lose too i mean it wont export. feed it to the cows in the yard and they'll pick through it.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

AaronQ said:


> why don't you guys use used greenhouse plastic?
> we stack 70,000 plus outdoors under tarps with plastic under em and a 2x4 running down the outside of the stack on its flat and our loss rate is less then 1% on any of our bottoms.


I tried plastic and it didn't work for me. How do you keep the rack from shredding the plastic when you push off from the stack?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Wheatland - The 2x4's are about 84 inches long, and the whole pallet is around 112. This is all from memory, but none of the dimensions need to be perfect, the 2x4's just need to be placed between the forks and extend past them when the pallets is fully seated. The leading edge need to be loose from the 2x4 because it HAS to slip over the rolling rack plate. I have been thinking about this and I can get rid of some of the wooden ones, make me an offer.

Enos - anywhere from 8 percent up to about 14. You know as well as I do it has to be dry, or we run the risk of stuff going bad. I think that as the years pass the floors will get better, they did when it was a ground floor.

Wilson - we've got a couple hundred of those things laying around. I have been cutting some down for 3x3's but that makes a small dent in the pile. I needed about 50-70 per shed, and there were 4 sheds to put hay in, and I know that I used to run out of pallets..... You can'treload a prtially filled pallet of hay. You can't get under it, and the rolling rack won't bring it front to fill it.

The greehouse plastic, or any kind of plastic won't do the job for any length of time, say more than a day. The problem with plastic is that it does keep water from coming 'up' but it also keeps water from going 'down'. The pallets are NOT an easy solution, but if we would stack right on the bare ground or directly on top of plastic, the loss rate would be near 100%. In many cases, we need a combination of things to keep the bottom row from going bad.

Rodney


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Mike,
I forgot to menttion some prices that I can remember....

JD7810, duals, MFWD, PQ, 711 hours, 2002 model $102000 I was talking to a guy who said he bought a new one for about $82,000

Kuhn 10601 tedder looked nice $18000

Pequea 901 tedders ~$1300

Sorry I didn't take notes....

Rodney


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

Rodney R said:


> The greehouse plastic, or any kind of plastic won't do the job for any length of time, say more than a day. The problem with plastic is that it does keep water from coming 'up' but it also keeps water from going 'down'. The pallets are NOT an easy solution, but if we would stack right on the bare ground or directly on top of plastic, the loss rate would be near 100%. In many cases, we need a combination of things to keep the bottom row from going bad.
> 
> Rodney


As i said. we save 99% of our bottoms. no stainage or mold from any kind of moisture wicked in from ground level or tarp drainage.
It works.
We've stored hay out doors on plastic stacked on a 4 inch berm with a norseman tarp on it for over two years and our bottoms we're only at a loss rate of a little less then 10%.
It's really quite doable but it is some days time consuming. Like i said before last year we shipped 82,000 bales with over 65,000 being wintered over and we had 2.5 feet of snow last winter as well. We had to feed about 700 bales to our own cattle as it wouldn't make the florida market.
We unroll a sheet of the greenhouse plastic and double it over so its two layers thick, however long they are as they all vary depending on how it came off the greenhouse structure. We stack double stacks so two wagon loads dumped side by side tight together with a two by four laid flat on it's edge right against the edge of outside bales, then we take the 6 bales off the top outside edge of both sides of the stack and use them to make a peak ontop of the stack so the water and snow will run off the stack. that is where that raised berm we stack on makes a big difference as the water will run away from it better.
We also shovel a little 2 or 3 inch trench in front of the face of the stack to divert any water that runs down on top of the berm.
probably the most crucial thing we've found is where your placing your stack. any kind of a low spot where the water will run in underneath it is your biggest problem. We find some many stacks we come to haul out with the custom trucking and the guys have stacked in a low area or one end of the stack is started in a bit of a hole and
like rodney said 100% of the bottoms are no good. We've loaded hay out where the bottoms were so froze down to the ground you couldn't budge them loose with any less then a big four wheel drive with a blade on it. the accumelator fork wouldn't even pick them up.
The time it takes to do all of that will way more then be paid for by the money you save on bottoms. we've done it this way for about 13 years now. Before we did that we used the same plastic you would use for vapor barrier on your house. still used a two by four down each side then but it was a little more labour intensive doing it that way as you had to put it down in front of every load.
The other biggest problem you'll have with stacking on the plastic is the tearing like blue duck said.
We have installed a longer shackle bracket on the rear spring to raise the height of the rear frame. what this does is lifts your load rack up a little bit when your in the tipped position pushing out with the feet. the front end of your load rack will catch your feet if you don't do this. if you dont want to go through all that trouble which is only an afternoons fix just back your rear tires up on some 2x6's laid flat and that'll give you enough lift usually. if your stacking in some ruts in the sheds or on some softer ground break a bale and spread it out underneath your rear tires that usually works as a bit of a shim as well.

The other thing that we found on the plastic to keep it from tearing is on the rear upright load arms of the load rack, the ones that support the load when the rack is tipped up in the dump position, have a piece of plate or flat bar bolted onto them, where those bolts are theres a bit of a notch in the channel iron. we weld a piece of plate on that. takes about an hour. saves soooooo many bottoms that way on the plastic as it'll tear every time under every bale.

Rodney. if your stacking in the sheds with these little modifications done on plastic i'll garuantee you you can save a very large percentage of your bottoms. my cousin stacks around 80,000 bales a year in sheds and he lost three tiers. 54 bales out of 80,000. takes him about a day to put plastic down in all of his sheds at the beginning of the year.

We've tried building pallets before and they do work really well but are expensive in comparison and take alot of time on every load and are just awkward to handle. plus you have to move them with every wagon load thats loaded out to. the plastice you just roll up when your done and use it again next year. we've used some chunks of it for 5 or 6 years now. if you get a bad chunk thats got a rip or a hole you just cut it out or throw a chunk of loose plastic over it.

one thing we have tried that works well too is these things called stack savers. i dont remember who built them but they're sold quite abit down in texas and california as fas as i know. they're just a plastic tube that fits over the upright arms on the load rack. same idea as your pallets but alot quicker and easier to use.

I'll post you a bunch of pictures on here at the next stack we load out of and i'll get my brother in law to make a video when we're stacking next summer.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

i should mention too my cousin also has experimented with using old conveyor belting off of the old sand conveyors from the tar sands. stuffs good and heavy and about 600 feet long. it works well but is a little expensive i thought price per foot compared to plastic.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

AaronQ said:


> i should mention too my cousin also has experimented with using old conveyor belting off of the old sand conveyors from the tar sands. stuffs good and heavy and about 600 feet long. it works well but is a little expensive i thought price per foot compared to plastic.


AaronQ could you let us know your location on your profile. As I've found since being on this forum what works for me would never work for someone in the majority of places the guys on the forum are. I always thought if storing hay inside you could just put it on the ground with a bit of old hay spread all over and you are good to go. But I guess for others in most other places that's a good way to ruin hay. Over then years the method I use (which is really nothing) has accounted for very very few loses. Maybe 1-2 bales a year and that is probably mostly from the bale itself and not from the way it's stored.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Like Rodney I did not take notes, but some prices I remember JD 1750 6 row corn planter $26,500, JD 1590 no-til drill $47,000 ( a friend told me he just bought a new one for $45,000) JD 4320 $16,500, Made me feel good about what I own.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Bob M said:


> Like Rodney I did not take notes, but some prices I remember JD 1750 6 row corn planter $26,500, JD 1590 no-til drill $47,000 ( a friend told me he just bought a new one for $45,000) JD 4320 $16,500, Made me feel good about what I own.


Taking a quick look at tractorhouse for that equipment you listed those prices aren't to far out of line depending on certain features. Except the no till drill. That is high. So keep on feeling good. The way manufacturers are raising the prices on new equipment the used stuff doesn't lose value and sometimes appreciates.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Right there is a major difference. Converted all to water we get 45 inches of precipitation here a year on average. Some years more like 60 inches.



AaronQ said:


> and we had 2.5 feet of snow last winter as well.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Rodney R Thanks for the heads up on not being able to reload and why.

I actualy do not visualize springing for a newer bale wagon. I am about at the end of my productive life. 
Maybe the Next owner of this farm will have the energy to expand.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Right there is a major difference. Converted all to water we get 45 inches of precipitation here a year on average. Some years more like 60 inches.


Man that's a lot of moisture. We get on average just 12-14 inches a year.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its both a blessing and a curse. We used to have nice week long dry spells 3 or 4 times a summer but except last year it hasn't happened for 10-15 years. A couple of years ago it rained over 60 days in June July Aug. It was a nightmare, the forecasts were wrong all the time. We got 2 dry days in the first week of June and nothing could be touched until July 1 which is our long weekend. August was better but you end up cutting timothy "straw" with the new growth up in the middle of it. Pretty poor hay. There were a lot of pissed off horse people with dusty hay. Its the first year I've completely sold out.



Teslan said:


> Man that's a lot of moisture. We get on average just 12-14 inches a year.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Rodney, what type of wood should we use for building pallets? We kind of thought rough cut oak would be strongest but very heavy. Was thinking pine 2x4's and oak 1x4's, does this make sense? Bob


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

We got the absolute cheapest 2x4's we could for the runners, and the thinnest boards we could get cut for the slats. We had them cut right here, we had a guy with a portable sawmill cut them, and we had him cut as thin as he could.... They are for sure under inch thick, maybe only 5/8 to 3/4. We had found some reject deck boards (like for your house) and they are 5/4, even though it's pine, it's much heavier. You want to go as thin as you dare, down to about 1/2 inch, seriously. I'd put a slightly thicker one in the very back. We used an air nailer to nail the boards to the 2x4's. Our boards range anywhere from 3 inch wide to about 6 inch wide. The wood does not have to be pretty at all. Some of ours has the bark on it a little, some is split. We used mostly poplar, simply because that's what we had. You need to install something that will flex a little on the bottom end (see my pictures), cause that part will need to go over the rolling rack - the 2x4s will be on one side, and the flexable stuff will be on the other side. At the top side you will need a piece of baler twine (I wonder where you can find that?) to keep the pallet from falling front till the 1st tier is up there. You should store the wooden pallets INSIDE (so they don't absorb water), and the wood needs to be dry before hay get put on the boards - Ours was all wet when it was cut, and we had a lot of spoilage from the boards the 1st year. And, if you want to cut down on the weight, simply use less wood, and more of that flexible stuff - we used cattle panel, and most of our pallets are made entirely of that. I needed the wooden ones to be stable to enable the retreiver truck to get them - we built one that uses forks just like on the wagon to pick the stack up, and if the ground is uneven the completely cattle panel ones will buckle.

The very important part - the 2x4's MUST NOT extend too far out the bottom of the pallet (where the flexible stuff is at), or they will get stuck in the holes for the push off feet (when an empty pallet is loaded) or at the rear of the load rack (when a full pallet is ready to be unloaded) A crowbar is your friend when the 2x4 gets stuck..... Sometimes you wiill know it cause the 2nd table won't seem to be back as far as usual, when the load rack is full. I think that about an inch is far enough. If you have any more questions or need some pictures/measurements let me know.

Rodney


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Here's the post about pallets for stackers


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