# how to justify when to go SP



## farmboy9510 (Feb 16, 2009)

Just wondering how you boys with the self propelled mowers decided when it was time to go Self Propelled over a pull type mower. Also what are the benifits of a self propelled mower over a pull type.

thank you

Alex Durham


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## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

We just went to a self propelled mower this season. So far it has been one of the best decisions we have made. We decided to go self propelled because we went 2 seasons and never unhooked the mower and was needing another tractor so we just got the self propelled. We are also up to 600 acres of alfalfa and i think it has seriously increased our mowing capacity. Its very nice to sit behind the mower and not have to look back all the time. The only downside I have found is the slow road speed.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

I would not go in debt for anything right now! But SP is very nice and we would not want to think about any other way to mow hay. I see a lot of people with hay equipment that cannot justify it - guys with $50,000 worth of hay equipment to bale $5,000 worth of hay each year - doesn't make sense!
You cannot compete with a SP mower with a tractor - cut the field any direction, never look over your shoulder , HYDROSTATIC Transmission, you will reduce hitting something with the cutter by 10-50%. You will take better care of the cutter and reduce maintence on the cutter by 10-50%. The ride is much better as the SP is spread over a wider stance. The swath is usually much wider behind a SP as well allowing for better drying conditions.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

SP eliminates tractor problem. 1 hooked to baler, 1 hooked to stack wagon, wife screaming because she doesn't have a tractor to clean the corrals


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## okhillbilly (Jun 18, 2009)

(nwfarmer) You are Lucky to have a wife that wants to use your tractor. Mine won't touch a piece of any equipment with a 10 foot pole. Afraid I'm going to make her work while I watch NASCAR on tv.


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## okhillbilly (Jun 18, 2009)

(farmboy) I looked at a s.p. awhile back for my hay use. I just didn't know how well it it do on all the uneven terrain I mow. Alot of dips and terraces in my praire fields. I like the idea of being able to start on one side and work your way back and forth to the other. And the extra width would be nice. Had a hard time justifying the expense at the time. I may look again in the future. There is alot of older machines around that aren't priced to bad used. So if your in the market might be worth it.


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

The tipping factor for me was my neck otherwise the hydroswing did fine.


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## nwks baler (Jul 18, 2008)

farmboy9510 said:


> Just wondering how you boys with the self propelled mowers decided when it was time to go Self Propelled over a pull type mower. Also what are the benifits of a self propelled mower over a pull type.
> 
> thank you
> 
> Alex Durham


I went to a SP windrower when went to rotory headers. We did side by side with a rotory pull type and a rotory SP, We found on our small odd shaped fields we could windrow almost twice as much alfalfa with the SP. I also saved a lot of road time by hauling my JD4995 windrower wiht a Donahue swather trailer. It only takes about 5 minutes to load and 5 minutes to unload and I can go 50 mph down the road.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

river rat said:


> The tipping factor for me was my neck otherwise the hydroswing did fine.


I also have neck problems which are are aggrevated by watching a sidepull m.c. We put a swivle on the seat and added some mirrors- helped a lot. I wonder if the 2 pt hitch models wouldn't be a lot more efficient turning on odd shaped fields?


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## nwks baler (Jul 18, 2008)

Hayguy said:


> I also have neck problems which are are aggrevated by watching a sidepull m.c. We put a swivle on the seat and added some mirrors- helped a lot. I wonder if the 2 pt hitch models wouldn't be a lot more efficient turning on odd shaped fields?


The pull type we did our side by side with was a two point hitch.


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

I dont know exactly how but a SP has a lot more hydraulic power going to the drives instead of a hydraswing. Frees up a tractor and just seems easier to get the job done. Maybe I just had bad hydraulic pumps on my hydraswings.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

chadl said:


> I dont know exactly how but a SP has a lot more hydraulic power going to the drives instead of a hydraswing. Frees up a tractor and just seems easier to get the job done. Maybe I just had bad hydraulic pumps on my hydraswings.


I had the same problem with my 499. Get some real heavy hay that was leaning into the mower and the rollers will actually grab the hay and try to pull it out of the ground before the sickle can cut it off. If its jsut a little spot or two no problem, but too much and then the pressure relief would blow then got to unplug the mower. I was actually hoping for a week hydraulic system as getting first cutting made if it went down was just plain painful. Placed a gauge in the system and unfortunately the system was actually carrying a few hundred pounds _more_ than what it was supposed to. If I had hay go down I actually paid the neighbor that had a discbine to mow the last few fields for me this year.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Production Acres said:


> .....you will reduce hitting something with the cutter by 10-50%..... The swath is usually much wider behind a SP as well allowing for better drying conditions.


I agree with everything except these 2 points. I think we hit more stuff with the self propelled. At least with the pull mower, you have a chance to drive over the fence rails and tree limbs etc etc with the tractor before it gets to the head. Plus you can get a good look to your right.

I wish we could lay our swaths out wider but the wheels get in the way. There is a company making "wings" or "fins" that attach to the back of a pull behind mower. This spreads the swath out really wide.

If these fins work, I think a pull behind mower + super conditioning rolls + the wide swath fins would be state of the art cutting.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

rank said:


> I agree with everything except these 2 points. I think we hit more stuff with the self propelled. At least with the pull mower, you have a chance to drive over the fence rails and tree limbs etc etc with the tractor before it gets to the head. Plus you can get a good look to your right.
> 
> I wish we could lay our swaths out wider but the wheels get in the way. There is a company making "wings" or "fins" that attach to the back of a pull behind mower. This spreads the swath out really wide.
> 
> If these fins work, I think a pull behind mower + super conditioning rolls + the wide swath fins would be state of the art cutting.


I understand that with a pull mower the first pass around a field, the tractor runs over the hay prior to you cutting the hay, but no other time would you - or should you - run over hay before you cut it? Yes you can look to the right, but you cannot look to the right all day and see where you are going, that is the reason you do better with a SP you look ahead of the cutter and in the same direction of the path you are taking at the same time. Talk about operator comfort after 12-14 hours of cutting hay! We would litterally wear the blades off a JD 4995 before we usually destroyed them - not so with a New Idea 5210?

Swath width? Our tractors are all spread out as wide as possible adn most 6410's will have about 7' between the tires on the inside. Our JD 4995 would straddle a regular 102" wide trailer. That is 21% more swath width! Our Big M leaves only about 5' uncovered on a 30' wide swath that is 84% ground coverage.
If you put these fins on your pull type cutter won't you then drive on fresh cut hay and put it immediatly into the dirt/mud. You would never want to drive on the hay.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

My first SP was a NH 1112. Price was $9,000. I didn't see any good swing tongues around at the time. First problem was leaking planetary.

I traded that swather last fall. I got almost full price for trade in. Bought a NH 2550 with 16 ft head and it was priced at $28,000 and had an air seat, A/C, auto tilt head and very comfortable. However, I should have inspected the planetaries closer. They weren't leaking, they were dry. Only leaked when I filled them







. By the time I rebuilt the planetaries myself and repaired other problems I ended up with $4,000 in the swather. However I still feel it was a bargin with all the extras it had.

If anyone is buying a used SP I would highly recommend making sure the planetaries hold oil and don't leak. Very expensive repair, especially if you can't do it yourself. Around here mechanics charge upward of $8,000 to repair some of those planetaries.

A NH 2550 that is in very good shape around here is selling for approx. $37 or $38 thousand. All in all if you can get a good deal and take care of farm equipment you can most of your money out if you sell.

Checking serial numbers tells a lot about when the equip was built.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Production Acres said:


> ...you cannot look to the right all day and see where you are going, that is the reason you do better with a SP you look ahead of the cutter and in the same direction of the path you are taking at the same time. Talk about operator comfort after 12-14 hours of cutting hay!


I won;t disagree that the Sp is more comfortable



> Swath width? Our tractors are all spread out as wide as possible adn most 6410's will have about 7' between the tires on the inside. Our JD 4995 would straddle a regular 102" wide trailer. That is 21% more swath width! Our Big M leaves only about 5' uncovered on a 30' wide swath that is 84% ground coverage.


Is that the machine with the 3 small cutter heads? I imagine that dries hay faster than out 15' hesston head.



> If you put these fins on your pull type cutter won't you then drive on fresh cut hay and put it immediatly into the dirt/mud. You would never want to drive on the hay.


I'll let NH figure that out.
Low-Cost Wide Swaths | Mower-conditioner fins spread hay for faster drying


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Production Acres said:


> If you put these fins on your pull type cutter won't you then drive on fresh cut hay and put it immediatly into the dirt/mud. You would never want to drive on the hay.


I've always widened my mowing tractors as wide as they'll go. Yes I know the wider the row, the faster it's going to dry, except for the hay that the tractor tires run on, not only does it mat the hay down, but then it makes getting the tedder to pick it all up and not run the tedder teeth in the dirt that much harder to accomplish. I'm not sure how wide the 2-110 is now, but I literally have it set as wide as it will go and the front axle was the limiting factor. I actually had some offset rims from when we were doing ridges, I swapped those rims out on the front for the ones that came on it and gained another 3" on each side, then I moved the back tires out, I'll try to remember to throw a tape from inside to inside one of these days.


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

NW Farmer. I cant believe that a 2550 is still worth that much in your neck of the woods. I bought a HW 320 3 years ago for 34. I traded it of for my NH 8040 last year than bought my old 320 back this spring for 28. I know make fun of me for buying it back but it is all rebuilt through the store and runs like a champ. It actually saved me some expense.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We went to SP 4 years ago...JD 4995. This was mainly because the tractor we left hooked to the swing tongue needed replacing and it seemed like a good time to do it. I don't regret it a bit. Picked up much more acres per hour in small irregular fields, don't run over any hay, and my neck feels a whole bunch better at the end of the day. One thing that really suprised me was how much better the ride is over rougher fields. A tractor doesn't even compare.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

OhioHay said:


> We went to SP 4 years ago...JD 4995. This was mainly because the tractor we left hooked to the swing tongue needed replacing and it seemed like a good time to do it. I don't regret it a bit. Picked up much more acres per hour in small irregular fields, don't run over any hay, and my neck feels a whole bunch better at the end of the day. One thing that really suprised me was how much better the ride is over rougher fields. A tractor doesn't even compare.


Dealers are far apart. Don't think as many as further east either. Equip runs much higher here it seems. Seems easy to get a farm loan out here and these new farmers just run in and pay whatever they ask because they have bulk loan money. Makes it really difficult to get any good deal. We only have 1 NH dealer that is 100 miles away. Next one about 150 miles away. Case and John Deere dealers 20 miles away in town. Case dealer is terrible and doesn't sell NH. John Deere dealer isn't much better. Next closest John Deere dealer is 100 miles away. Absolutely no competition. We would have to go to N or S Dakota for the prices to drop any. I order all of my parts from a NH dealer 300 miles away. If I don't buy my equip all from one dealer I can't get service. I get my equip serviced through individuals running repairs. If you can repair equip out here it is easy to be self employed. All that said, since you have to be careful buying used equip it is difficult to buy used equip sight unseen and have it shipped.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

I must still he sleeping the quote was for chadl.


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

Interesting NW. My store should be within three hundred but maybe not.


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## emonk (Jul 10, 2010)

HAYGUY, I know this is off the subject of this post, but where did you find a seat swivel? Asked my JD dealer about this last week and he just scratched his head. Thx.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

emonk,
Depending on the tractor model, you may just have to buy the parts. I swapped a couple parts, from a 55 series, and made the 4240 seat swivel. On the 7000 series, there was an actual kit for a swivel on the mechanical suspension seats. I might be able to find that number..... It was TY something.

Rodney


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