# NH 5070 hayliner



## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

ok all there has to be a way to fix the typical new Holland one string loose problem have done every adjustment possible have put every kit in possible is there an aftermarket kit to modify the feeder for work so it does not overfeed the one side of the Baler


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

What are you baling? How are you raking? How many flakes per bale are you running? Blah blah blah.


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

Never been a huge issue for us having a loose string, but we have changed feeder fork position in different crops to,make feeding nicer and more even. Sounds like you've done that tho.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

gearhartfarms82 said:


> ok all there has to be a way to fix the typical new Holland one string loose problem have done every adjustment possible have put every kit in possible is there an aftermarket kit to modify the feeder for work so it does not overfeed the one side of the Baler


IMHO the typical feeding problem with New Holland balers was with the old flow action feeder type balers vs the rotary feed system/packer fork design of the 570/575 and BC5060/70 balers - although if the older design was adjusted, maintained and operated correctly, they would make bricks - my old model 68 is an example of this.

Loose string in one side sounds like "banana" bales. IMHO the bottom line for this is simply not getting enough hay to one side of the bale chamber. Banana bales can also be caused by hay dogs either missing or their springs broke or weak. Another factor that can aggravate is plunger to stationary knife clearance. Bigger the gap, more tendency to get a banana bale as the plunger drags more hay to the pickup side vs cutting it.

I don't own a 5070 design baler, but from what I think I know about them - a few suggestions:

1. All hay dogs in place with good springs.
2. Large windrows vs scarce thin.
3. Sharp and tightly adjusted plunger knife.
4. Packer fork correctly adjusted.

This last one - I've read that there have been instances of the rotary feeders being slightly out of time and a few links of adjustment made day and night difference - so if all else has been tried, the rotary feeders may be out of time.

Fine baler you got - it should make bricks, and a bunch of them...... FAST!!!!

Good luck,
Bill


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Long story short is new baler only 8 days old or so. Weve put close to 10000+ bales through it already. Dosent matter how much or little u feed it or how u adjust the feeder fork or rotators can not get it out of it in rotor straw. Not to bad on longer or tough straw but short is a issue. I got to do a little digging but seams like it just physically puts to much to uncut side no matter what.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Have you checked that feeder assembly is timed correctly to plunger head?


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> Have you checked that feeder assembly is timed correctly to plunger head?


This is where I would start. Sounds like he has done this and added wedge in feeder floor. I have had several of these balers,awesome machine, and never found one that couldn't be adjusted BUT I never rebaled 10000 straw bales. If I were rebaling I would buy one with an auger feeder.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

I just sold my 348. Love the auger feed. So much better on bale quality. But the new holland will take more and shear way less bolts. I found a youtube vid last night with i think solution. Going to add more adjustments to feeder fork. To get were we need to be.


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## tmac196 (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry. Misread the OPs original problem. My suggestion would not help him so I deleted it.


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## fe390man (Dec 30, 2014)

gearhartfarms82 said:


> I just sold my 348. Love the auger feed. So much better on bale quality. But the new holland will take more and shear way less bolts. I found a youtube vid last night with i think solution. Going to add more adjustments to feeder fork. To get were we need to be.


I've ran about a 1000 bales of straw through my new 5070 also. Had the same problem as you. Adjusted forks alittle. Seemed to help some. Just confused by operators manual. Says adjust pin left or right but doesn't state whether it's based from facing rear of machine or facing from front.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

fe390man said:


> Just confused by operators manual. Says adjust pin left or right but doesn't state whether it's based from facing rear of machine or facing from front.


It should be as seen from the rear of the machine....or your left or right as you are sitting on the tractor in front of it. Basically it is the machine's left or right based upon its designed direction of operation. The left/right designation from the machine's standpoint is an industrial standard for nearly every equipment ever made.

73, Mark


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

edit: ... oops.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

When in doubt add more holes to fork. Since nh cant figure it out we can!!


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Just caught up on this topic. I had the same problem with my 570. Other farmers had the same issue with 570's and 575 balers. One even returned the machine to the dealer and left it there, but mine was 3 years old by then.

The 2 simplest causes of banana bales on a rotor type baler are overfeeding (stuffing too much material into the baler which is pretty hard to do with that style NH) or not having the pickup belt slippage set properly (can be caused by over tensioned belt or paint in the pulley sheaves)

Before trying anything else set the pickup belt slippage as per the Owners Manual. My baler had baled over 25,000 bales in its first year and the pulley sheaves were still coated in paint. In fact to get the belt to slip I had to add a wire loop to the belt tension adjuster to reduce the tension enough to get slippage and wear the paint off the sheaves.

In years of low straw strength banana bales were a major problem for me.

My dealer tried everything he knew and some he didn't, and I tried even more fixes.

I tried the different wedges and timing adjustments to the finest point, where everything just cleared.

The problem arises in brittle hay, cereal hay (oats) in particular.

In some seasons our rainfall is very low, I have grown hay on as little as 4.75 inches of rain in the growing season, that results in very low straw strength giving banana bales.

NH Australia managers visited my farm when I happened to be overseas. They claimed that the problem did not occur anywhere else in the world Ha Ha, it is clear that there are issues elsewhere

Examine your bales and you will find that there is a layer of hay under the right string that does not reach across to the left string.

How this happens is the hay in the rear of the rotor feed area is not pushed fully into the bale chamber, and with say 13 slices per bale at 1 inch, or even 1/2 inch of hay extra per slice under the right string (cut side) BANANA .

I attributed this to the fact that the rotors and the packer fork work in the same alignment and in brittle straw break a track into the hay and do not force the straw fully to the left of the chamber.

When you examine the rotor feed area ( I refer to it as the "cross feed area") there is about 9 inches of hay behind the rearmost rotor, which in my opinion overloads the rearmost rotor and rear tine of the packer fork causing the straw to not be carried to the left.

Here is a list of the adjustments that I listed elsewhere in the past.

Rotor to rotor timing
Rotor to packer fork timing
Packer fork to plunger timing
Pickup drive belt slippage
Packer fork to link adjustment
Link to baler frame anchor point adjustment
Left hand feeder wedge (a NH option)
Long grass wedge (a NH option)
Ground the front (blunt end) of the plunger knife to prevent drag back
Fitted a third teardrop rotor to the left set
Added more links to packer fork adjustment holes to packer fork as per the you tube video o
Varied ground speed
Varied pto speed
Tried 3 different tractors
Tried raking windrows to fluff the hay
Investigated adding further leading spikes to the packer forks (Like some Jones balers)but would not clear the top of chamber where the stripper bar is anchored
Considered but not installed a dummy rear wall in the cross-transfer area. 
When straw strength is low, you can hear the straw crackling as it goes up the pickup into the cross transfer area. Other farmers have commented on this crackling of the straw on small squares and round balers.

The most responsive fix was to add an extra rotor to the set immediately before the packer fork. To do this I removed the rotor shaft (and Rotors) then had a keyway machined into the shaft and an additional rotor fitted. There is just enough room for an additional rotor to fit.

In my opinion this helped but in extreme years did not alleviate the banana bales.

The video on YouTube if it is the guy from Easter side of Australia shows additional set of holes for the packer arm to give more adjustment to the attitude/angle that the packer forks operate at. I tried it and without success.

Tx Jim advised me to get a JD, but I can tell him that a JD 348 in the years of low straw strength has the same issue but not as pronounced because the overload is only on the packer fork not on the packer fork/rotor combination.

I opined that another fix is to fit a dummy wall behind the rotors and packer fork to limit the amount of hay behind the rearmost rotor packer fork tine. I sold the machine when I reduced the amount of hay bale and bought a JD348. That is how I know it is not perfect and as many have said a 348 cannot swallow hay like the NH family of rotor feed balers, 570, 575, 5060, 5070

The 570 has some holes in the metalwork in the top of the cross transfer area and in front of the twine box that could be for a rear wall of different profile.

With the very dry climate here in Western Australia, to reduce the shatter of hay I often have to bale at night to allow the relative humidity to rise to a leveln where straw strength is improved by the moisture absorption from the air, but the straw strength can be so low that this does not solve the problem of banana bales.

Good luck in your quest to eliminate banana bales.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Coondle, great amount of info in this post. I have made a few bales with these machines but never in your conditions. Very interesting, I will go read op manual on belt adjust.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Coondie

Since you mentioned me please explain how pickup drive belt slippage affects shape of bales because I can't understand how that would put more hay on one side of bale chamber.

Thanks,Jim


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> Coondie
> 
> Since you mentioned me please explain how pickup drive belt slippage affects shape of bales because I can't understand how that would put more hay on one side of bale chamber.
> 
> Thanks,Jim


The pickup on most balers runs at a constant speed, often chain driven so no chance of slipping.

The rotary feed family of NH balers can swallow hay at a huge rate, however over supply of hay to the packer forks results in too much hay in the right side of the bale chamber causing a banana bale.

At one point in the cycle, the rotors are vertically down and effectively blocking more hay being fed into the cross transfer area. If the pickup runs at a constant speed the result is a slug of hay banked up against the rotors that is then fed into the cross transfer area causing an overfeed and banana bales. If however the pickup slips a slug of hay is not formed.

Ahaha you say, what about the build up oh hay against the pickup fingers because of the pause in the picking tine rotation and a constant ground speed. It appears that any slug of hay , dissipates before getting to the bale chamber.

In good baling conditions the rotor family of balers pump out bales like nothing else.

In the USA you probably do not have any redress. Now in Australia I may be able to geta full refund because equipment sold by a person in business of that equipment (manufacturer and dealer) warrants the equipment as "fit for purpose". A statutory warranty that cannot be excluded by contract.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Coondle

Sorry for my delay in responding but I have been experiencing ISP outages for over a week, My 1st thought is what keeps pickup belt from prematurely wearing out?? Sorry but I'd have to see the slug of hay created from hesitating PU teeth disappear with my own eyes to believe it. I would think one would have to lower ground speed which would lower bales per hour. No USA doesn't have an equipment LEMON LAW but I firmly believe with the HIGH prices of ag equipment that we should have such a law. If NH sq baler is that advanced above JD sq balers I wonder why JD has the same basic baler design as when the 336/346 was introduced back in the 70's? The only late model NH sq balers I've been around lately were the 570 or 565(I can't remember which model) and the two different balers that baled my hay made anything but a square bale.

Thanks,Jim


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> Coondle
> 
> My 1st thought is what keeps pickup belt from prematurely wearing out?? Sorry but I'd have to see the slug of hay created from hesitating PU teeth disappear with my own eyes to believe it. I would think one would have to lower ground speed which would lower bales per hour. No USA doesn't have an equipment LEMON LAW but I firmly believe with the HIGH prices of ag equipment that we should have such a law. If NH sq baler is that advanced above JD sq balers I wonder why JD has the same basic baler design as when the 336/346 was introduced back in the 70's? The only late model NH sq balers I've been around lately were the 570 or 565(I can't remember which model) and the two different balers that baled my hay made anything but a square bale.
> 
> Thanks,Jim


Pickup belt slippage is not great and in 100,000 bales plus the belt had not worn out.

when operating the machine the "slug" created by the pause is not visible as an additional amount of hay. However watching the hay-flow on the pickup you can see the momentary pause as the belt slips.

Without the belt properly adjusted banana bales are guaranteed.

With the dramatic decrease in our winter rains the growing conditions are now such that I cannot reliably produce grass (or as we call it, meadow hay of clovers, medics and ryes) and have turned more to cereal hay, usually oats, but sometimes wheat.

The rain where I farm has declined from around 30 inches in winter to as low as 5 inches but more often 12 to 14 inches. Being a Mediterranean climate rain is concentrated in winter with the season break classically occurring in mid to late Autumn ( April/ May). Some recent years have not seen rain sufficient to germinate grass until the end of the first week in July. Cut off of rains usually occurs in early to mid October, but last year cut out at end of August causing great stress to the to crop. The oats dying as they flowered and tried to fill grain. A bad year for hay giving a return of only 100 bales per acre whereas in a good year I have grown up to 240/250 bales per acre at 55+ lbs per bale.

Wheat used to be the predominant cereal hay, however with continuing breeding of shorter, higher grain producing varieties the wheat is now almost universally "bearded" like barley. The wheat breeders have reverted to breeding up from the wild wheats of Iran and Iraq which has re-introduced the beard. One very old variety still persists as the go-to breed for wheaten hay and chaff (chopped cereal hay). The variety is Baroota Wonder first bred in the 1800's and a report in 1914 referred to wheats developed by selection near Port German a town in South Australia and it refers to Mr Thomas's wheat Baroota Wonder. Baroota no longer exists as a town but was near Port German.

The oats and wheats grow to about 4 feet high and are cut at the time of highest food content in the straw to maximise the nutrient value and palatability of the hay.

Our laws about fit for purpose apply to second hand machinery from a dealer as well as new, which has some interesting consequences. One of which is that worn out suspect machines are not accepted as trades by dealers or are sold as "parts only" machines. Dealers now rarely have older machines and to obtain these you have to revert to the direct dealing private market.

Back to your question about why have JD not changed design?. I do not know but the R&D by JD in small squares is possibly NIL as it is a diminishing market and indeed hay itself is a relatively small market compared to grain production. From my exposure to NH it does not seem to have much concern over the small square market now. I do not know of a dealer in Western Australia that stocks new small square balers and if you want one it has to be ordered 6 or more months in advance.

The 565 is of the old style NH system whereas the 570/575 saw the rotor system introduced and continued in the later model designations.

Jd is quite primitive in several respects IMHO compared with the makers that put in some R&D. Claas is quite different in its cos transfer so it is clear that there are several systems that work. NH does not work well in seasons where the straw does not develop good strength.

Some years ago I put my machine (NH 570) rebaling big squares into smalls at a nearby BTO who was using a JD 348. Running one machine at a time you could easily see the faster production of the 570. Running side by side windrows the 570 tore away from the 348 and produced bale on a par in regard to shape and size.

From my observations, there are many operators of hay machinery and balers in particular that do not understand the adjustments necessary to deliver good shaped and sized bales. With new systems like the NH rotor family of balers there are even fewer that can make the necessary adjustments because of an even poorer understanding of the adjustments necessary/available.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Very interesting comments and insight on the rotary feed New Holland balers. No first hand experience with the New Holland BC5070, but based on the videos I've seen of it, I'm convinced you can put in some extremely heavy windrows, drive ahead at an obscene rate and bale some massive amounts of hay. In that regard, IMHO, it is a higher capacity baler.

However, in terms of bale quality, I believe JD and New Holland recommend 3 inch flakes of hay per charge into the bale. Both the John Deere 348 and the New Holland BC5070 are 93 stroke per minute machines. My limited personal experience is that more flakes gives a better shaped, better cut side appearance and definitely more consistent bale length. I'm selling into the horse market, so IMHO bale appearance is important too. So if consistent bale quality is to be maintained, it would seem to me both the JD and NH are equals. Don't want to get smacked down, but it also believe (and read) the New Holland rotary feed balers, while a great improvement over the older flow action feed design, still can be sometimes temperamental and need some adjusting - especially in lighter hay. I call it the fuss factor. IMHO, the JD auger design is more forgiving and to be fair the MF/Hesstons even less hassle to operate without a fuss.

When I bought my JD 348, either it or the New Holland were in my eyes totally acceptable machines for my needs. I especially liked the BC5060. A deal came up first on the JD, I bought it - fingers crossed.

One thing about the New Holland BC series balers that ought to be IMHO high on anyone's list of considerations is ease of service. The BC balers have abundent flip up door access to just about everything on those balers. Best I've ever seen on a piece of farm equipment. The JD balers with their auger design and packer fork arrangement works and have been terrific since the 50's from the 14T. Another consideration when buying IMHO is online forum help when troubleshooting. Probably someone who has owned/operated a 14T can chime-in with tips/tricks that are still relevant to the 348 today.

All good - happy baling.

Bill


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

That's why I've got a JD 348, because I had a 336 and understood how to fix everything on it. Well and because I got a smoking deal on it.

I've been quite tempted to try a centre line baler sometime though. I don't like the pickup location as I prefer to keep an eye on material entering, that's what annoys me with round balers. Chances are we will buy a 4x6 net wrap round baler long before another square baler though.

Related to the topic, would the centre line banana vertically in short brittle straw conditions discussed?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Coondle

Thanks for your reply.

Horse owners are about the only thing that gives small square balers "any demand".

IMHO having to operate a machine with a belt loose enough to slip so as to create a square(even) bale leaves some to be desired in the NH engineering department.

Jim


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Horse owners are about the only thing that gives small square balers "any demand".


I never thought of this. But you are 100% right.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Leeave 96 you are right, both are good machines but I can tell you that although both are rated as 93 strokes per minute. Baling behind my 15 foot mower conditioner in a hay crop going 250 bales per acre, I know which machine would bale all day behind my usual baler tractor, and that is the rotary feed NH.

I encounter plugging and or wrapping of the auger feed with my JD348 in those conditions. To prevent this I have to use a larger tractor because it has lower ground speeds available. In long hay a plugged or wrapped auger feed is a real PITA to clear.

A crop like that results in a bale every 12 feet along the windrow, or to put it another way with a 3 inch slice and 12 slices for a 36inch bale there is a slice every foot of travel. At 93 strokes per minute that means a ground speed fractionally above one mile per hour. Granted the NH was doing fewer than 12 slices per bale but in that hay load I struggle to run my JD at less than 12 slices per bale.

I have used both a 570 and a 348 at the same time, working both alongside each other for 2 seasons. I sold the 570 because I was scaling down my operation and the 348 was almost unused having had around 100,000 fewer bales through it and I sold the 570 for what the 348 cost.

I regard both machines highly and each has its own set of pros and cons, so it is possible to find a set of reasons to prefer one over the other but I found the 570 easier to work on but that could be because of over 40 years using a NH machine starting off with a NH Super 66 (an auger and wad board feed machine) which was far from new even then.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Coondle said:


> Leeave 96 you are right, both are good machines but I can tell you that although both are rated as 93 strokes per minute. Baling behind my 15 foot mower conditioner in a hay crop going 250 bales per acre, I know which machine would bale all day behind my usual baler tractor, and that is the rotary feed NH.
> 
> I encounter plugging and or wrapping of the auger feed with my JD348 in those conditions. To prevent this I have to use a larger tractor because it has lower ground speeds available. In long hay a plugged or wrapped auger feed is a real PITA to clear.
> 
> I have used both a 570 and a 348 at the same time, working both alongside each other for 2 seasons. I sold the 570 because I was scaling down my operation and the 348 was almost unused having had around 100,000 fewer bales through it and I sold the 570 for what the 348 cost.


250 sq bales per acre resembles a Tall Texas Tale as 100 sq bales to the acre is considered a decent crop here.  I agree unwrapping hay the auger from a plugged JD sq baler is a PITA.

It's interesting you sold a NH 570 & kept the inferior JD 348


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> 250 sq bales per acre resembles a Tall Texas Tale as 100 sq bales to the acre is considered a decent crop here.  I agree unwrapping hay the auger from a plugged JD sq baler is a PITA.
> 
> It's interesting you sold a NH 570 & kept the inferior JD 348


Jim just because something is beyond your ken it doesn't mean it is not true. I am sure you do not have kangaroos chomping on your hay either. I do not share my hay with moose or elk or deer, unless the deer farm up the road has some escapees.

One of the wonderful things about this forum is the opportunity it provides to find out about haymaking in other parts of the world. Even in the USA I have learnt of the huge variation in the hay varieties and circumstances faced by haymakers in making and marketing their produce. I am interested to read about the rich panoply of experiences and machines that the HT family wrestle with.

I get the opportunity to have one and only one cutting per year, and that in a window severely limited by weather i.e. the cut off of the rain and a looming very hot and dry summer. With the limits imposed there are significant inputs required to maximise production. For example I apply a high rate of fertiliser (soil amendment) containing nitrogen,phosphorous, potassium,calcium and sulphur, plus regular liming. I have just applied 12,000lb fertiliser to 50 acres i.e. 240lbs per acre. I also apply 2200 lbs fine texture lime sand per acre each 5 years. That gives a good return on friable red and brown loans overlaying yellow clay.

I had a bad year last year and only grew 100 bales to the acre but with 5 weeks without a drop of rain leading up to cutting and below average rainfall before that it was a remarkably good result. Fortunately I use minimum till to maximise moisture capture. optimise moisture placement and minimise moisture loss from the soil. Without that I could scarcely raise a crop at all.

I pour the inputs in and reap the benefits. I used to lease some neighbouring land and used the same regime on that as on my own, yields were comparable. Another took over the lease and did feed the land. After 3 years (last season in fact) the yield from one 12 acre paddock was only 15 rolls of hay, that land will now require years of TLC to yield properly again.

Transitioning into retirement I am reducing the amount of hay produced so the smaller low usage 348 seemed a good deal at effectively no cost over a much older high usage machine. The lower capacity is not an issue now. If I was doing 35,00 to 40,000 bales a year on my own then the 348 would not be on the lot.

Unlike you I can see the flaws in the 348 and can see its good points too, it is still acceptable and a good fit for my operation now even though can produce banana bales


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Coondle

I never stated I couldn't see flaws in JD balers. Evidently your reading comprehension overlooked my statement that unwrapping auger on JD sq baler was a PITA. I own several different brands of farm equipment besides JD. What do these 250 per acre sq bales average weighting per bale? At 60#s per bale that would amount to 15,000#s of hay per acre which would be a nice return for your added soil amendments. If that 348 happens to make banana shaped bales that can be corrected without causing the pickup drive belt to slip.

Jim


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

At one time 200 square bales to the acre was rare indeed in this area, but with the tremendous growth of the poultry business and the potent manure available 200 bales is not unheard of. Now, not everyone has this situation but it is becoming more prevalent..


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Jim, Around 55 lbs per bale and it is a good return on inputs. The rating for here is 6 1/4 tonnes per acre. a tonne being 2200 lbs.

I often tell people that it is the crop that I get the highest return on, that I do not have to go to jail for growing.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not surprised at the tons per acre, although the bale spacing is a bit funny, we cut a fertilized field in late Aug one year due to rain all season. The neighbours hired young fellow double raked with a 9 ft rake so about 21 ft of windrow. The windrow was about chest high.

The bales came out maybe 10-15 feet apart except in a low area with rich soil some came out half stacked on each other because the pickup would plow as the tractor wouldn't go slow enough.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I agree about bale spacing. I would think sq bales would be closer than 12 ft in hay making 6.25 tonnes or 6.875 tons per acre.

Oh well any way one desires to look at it that's a lot of hay per acre.


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