# What I learned about wheel rakes



## urednecku

Or this one, at least. When I bought my mo-co & round baler, the man gave me a 4-wheel 2ph rake--and I know why.

1- it does NOT like rough ground.
2 - it does NOT like light (thin) hay
3- it does NOT like wet, heavy hay
4- it does NOT like corners, or curves
5- it's a PIA to get the wheels to turn without digging into the ground
6- it takes at least 3 passes to roll 2 swaths into 1 windrow
7- it's a PIA to get the top link hooked up.

It does do a fair job _*IF*_:
1- the ground is _smooth_
2- the speed is _right _
3- you have the _right_ amount of hay to roll
4- you get the right height for the teeth
I know there are more, (especially the parts I do NOT like) but I'm too tired to think of them.

Places in my hay-field are a bit rough, and this thing is leaving -I'm guessing- 20 - 30% or so of the hay behind in spots. I know part of it is the 3ph part, but it's also leaving more than it should on the smooth ground. I've heard the wheel rake, pull type, is the best for rough ground. I see ads for them with 2 carry tires, and some with 4. I've done some searching here, and see a lot of people love their rotary rake.
I really need to get something that will clean up better, and would also like to cover some more ground. 
(Oh yea, besides rough ground, I also have some smaller (~2 acre) areas real odd shaped.)

Could I get some suggestions on what style rake would help? I probably have to go used, like all of you, $$ is short.

THANKS in advance!


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## mlappin

Well...

1. you get what you pay for. it was free

2. I removed the lift arms from all my hay making tractors. Unless a quick hitch will work with it, cut it up for scrap

3. the newer wheel rakes do a much better job. see number #1


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## Colby

I think kuhns speed Rakes are the best wheel rake you can get for the money. Unless you go high cap.

I'm just like you, I have a stirex and I hate it!


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## Vol

Rotary rakes do the best job of raking of the three types of rakes I have used(rollabar & wheel (V) rake). They do a really nice job on uneven ground when equipped with the tandem floating(bogie) axles. Pequea of New Holland, PA is the manufacturer of my rotary rake and they make models that rake 9', 11' and 13.5'. They like to be pulled around 6 mph and can be pulled faster on nice smooth ground. Wheel(V) rakes do not work well hooked up to a 3 point hitch.....trailing is the only way to rake with wheels and have any kind of satisfaction. And like mlappin said, later model wheel rakes are much better than their predecessors.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

I think wheel rakes depends on the rake. I have a 12 wheel kuhn speed rake and as Colby says they are good. I was kind of nervous about it as my cousin as an Agco of some sort 12 wheel rake that he says doesn't to a good job in really heavy hay. My Kuhn put together the largest windrow of grass I have ever baled. So large I was afraid it wouldn't go under the tractor. The rake didn't seem to miss a blade of grass at any speed no matter the roughness of ground. However good it is I like the Rotary rakes still better as they are easier to lift up at the end of the windrow without missing any hay. But Rotary rakes are pricey. But I would be somewhat afraid of a used rotary rake. There is a good chance there is a reason they are for sale used. Many more very expensive parts to go bad on a rotary then a wheel rake.


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## DKFarms

I have found that wheel rake performance is always a compromise. The angle of the wheel relative to the direction of travel is, IMHO, the most critical aspect of good raking performance with any wheel rake. In my experience, the closer the wheel is lined up to the direction of travel, the more efficient the rake becomes. However, to achieve that, you end up with a too-wide windrow with very little material in it. So now we have to open the front of the rake to capture more material, which closes the back to correct the windrow width, but now we lose raking efficiency because the wheel angle has changed. Believe me, I have experimented for hours trying to find the "golden setting". Between adjusting the front opening width and moving the rake wheel gangs in or out on the center bar, you will find a place that is reasonably acceptable for most situations. I have Kuhn and Frontier rakes and this seems to apply to both of them. As for efficiency, my old JD roller bar rake will do a better job every time albeit at a much much slower pace.


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## urednecku

Still got a lot of research to do it looks like.
mlappin,--yer right, it was *free*, but 1 less thing to buy with very limited funds.
Vol,-- that Pequea looks like those 'bogie' axles would smooth the ride out quite a bit. But some areas I don't know if I could stay on the tractor @ 6 mph!
Teslan,-- that's also part of what I was wondering, about lifting over an already-made windrow. 
DKFarms, -- I've also gotten on & off many times to change angle, changed speed, etc, and can only find a 'golden setting' if I'm on smooth ground with plenty of grass that's not too heavy or flat--at least with this one.

Rest assured, anything I get will _*NOT*_ be connected to the 3ph!! Right now sounds like I'm gonna look for a rotary one, or possible a non-expensive bar until I can find one.


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## urednecku

Dangit Vol, I was gonna go see one of those Pequea dealers, but the closest one is about 275 miles away.


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## Tim/South

I also have a Kuhn speed rake, 10 wheel. It does a good job for us.
I set the width to pick up 2 - 9 ft cuts.
I adjust the turn buckles to make the windrow 4 feet wide.
On thin hay I may be thin in the middle of the windrow but I can still have square shoulders in the roll of hay and do not have to weave.


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## Teslan

I wouldn't disregard a 3 point rake. I have a Kuhn 3 point rotary rake and it works great. But I don't know about a wheel 3 pt rake. As for lifting up a wheel rake over an already made windrow you can do it, but you have to think about it and slow down a bit to do it right. This is my first year with the Kuhn 12 wheel speed rake and it's taken a bit to get used to that. The rotarys you don't have to worry about that.


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## Vol

DKFarms said:


> Believe me, I have experimented for hours trying to find the "golden setting".


I say Amen to that brother......I also think Kuhn makes one of the better wheel rakes.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

I'm not sure how it was to set up my Kuhn rake. I bought it used from a guy who was using it with the exact same kind of baler I have,except painted yellow, so I left it alone hoping he had it set up right and so he did.


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## urednecku

A neighbor let me borrow a JD 702 today. Thinking about hiding it in the back & telling him it got stolen!! I thought it did a good job of smoothing out the mess I had made with that pile of scrap metal I been using. Cleaned up lots left behind before, about 3 times as wide path, and bumps & holes didn't bother it near as much.

Does anybody know anything about H & S rakes? I found this one on Craigslist a little over 200 miles from me.

I need to find one soon, but want it to be the right one.


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## Cornykid

I have used a H&S CR10 for 8 years in back of a 12' haybine. Last year upgraded to the v12, and started using a tedder. It has worked really well for us. Usually just one cutting up here, 2-3 ton an acre hay. It would plug up on corners every now and then. I am sure if I was baling with a 5' baler it would have plugged less. Trading my H&S CR12 wheel rake in on the new H&S AR12 action rake. It was a toss up between the VR1224 and the AR12. I like the Vermeer center kicker wheels better, but that comes with a price. Plus, I have a dealer for the H&S nearby.


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## urednecku

Cornykid, you have a dealer nearby? I'm wondering about service if/when I have a problem.....or would the parts be 'generic' so I could find them local?
H&S website says I gotta call the distributor to find nearest dealer......that kinda stuff pi$$es me off I can't "shop around" during the weekend or at night when I have time to look.

I could cut another couple acres, and probably get another 10 or 15 bales where I just got thru_* IF *_I had a decent rake!!
I will be making some phone calls to dealers within about 50 or so miles of me tomorrow.


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## somedevildawg

My 2 cents, there is always a price for nice. No doubt about it the rotary rakes are the best, Kuhn makes a great one, it is pricey and it's gonna be $ to fix and it will break, most specially if you loan it to anyone......roller bars are really nice, saw two set up in tandem configuration that made it more efficient, and that's the problem, too slow....wheel rakes are super dependble unless that same guy borrows it.....and they are fast. My rake (frontier 9wheel) has the center kicker wheel that I like, I like the leaf spring suspension, I just wish I could let down one side at a time, then it would be perfect....I use a 10 wheel with no kicker for peanut hay.


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## Vol

somedevildawg said:


> I just wish I could let down one side at a time, then it would be perfect....I use a 10 wheel with no kicker for peanut hay.


You can let down the right side only of a Kuhn if you choose to do so. They are great rakes and have the center kick wheel as an option also.

Regards, Mike


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## urednecku

Thanks for all the input...sounds like now I'll look for a wheel rake starting in the morning. Planning on calling any dealer I can think of within about 50 miles or so.

Vol, I like that Kuhn, the local JD dealer is also a Kuhn dealer, I'll stop in & chat with them. Problem is this dealer is known to be proud of his $tuff, but they do have some good people working there, and have helped me a lot with suggestions on this old equipment, etc.
Then I'll come home & make a bunch of phone calls.


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## Tim/South

Vol said:


> You can let down the right side only of a Kuhn if you choose to do so. They are great rakes and have the center kick wheel as an option also.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I plan to plumb my Kuhn with an additional set of hyd controls, one for for each side. Then I will not have to get off and adjust the link.The option to only use one side at a time was a big selling point to me. With the way the lift cylinders are set up it looks simple just add that extra set of hoses.


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## somedevildawg

I think that is the smart choice *******, I think the best of the bunch for small farms is the kuhn speed rake, you can get center wheel addition, as others have said you can let one side down at the time which is a great feature.......however they love those speedrakes too, I think about 5k, I paid 2700 with center wheel brand new.....so for that reason alone I chose the frontier.....I think it may be the same as the Vermeer but not sure, the frontier uses a leaf spring for suspension and it works great....good luck. M & w is a good one or maybe it's M & M can't remember


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## Vol

Tim/South said:


> I plan to plumb my Kuhn with an additional set of hyd controls, one for for each side. Then I will not have to get off and adjust the link.The option to only use one side at a time was a big selling point to me. With the way the lift cylinders are set up it looks simple just to add that extra set of hoses.


Tim,
When you get around to your retro-plumb on your Kuhn, be sure to let us know how it works out and give us tips on what you learned.

Regards, Mike


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## CockrellHillFarms

urednecku said:


> Does anybody know anything about H & S rakes? I found this one on Craigslist a little over 200 miles from me.
> 
> I need to find one soon, but want it to be the right one.


I looked at the picture. The seals are blown out on the lift cylinders. Those seals would need to be replaced because the oil is bypassing and blowing out the pressure release. If you look at the pics, you can see hydraulic oil on the wings under the cylinders.


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## urednecku

Cockrell,


CockrellHillFarms said:


> I looked at the picture. The seals are blown out on the lift cylinders. Those seals would need to be replaced because the oil is bypassing and blowing out the pressure release. If you look at the pics, you can see hydraulic oil on the wings under the cylinders.


Thanks. I see what your talking about. Does look like a mess. I'm talking to a man about another he said is just like this one, he says his will spray hydro fluid out the breather in the cylander when you first hook it up, then no more.

I stopped by the dealer this AM, the Kuhn SR 8wheel new is a little over $5100 new. Gonna start calling around in just a few, see what I might find used in the area.


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## Teslan

I got lucky last fall and found a guy selling a 4 year old Kuhn SR 12 wheel rake for $5000 since he got a new rotary one. I think the new ones are $7-$8k. Hopefully you will get lucky and find a good one as well. The good thing about the wheel rakes is I think for the most part if they are used and something breaks or is worn out it's fairly easily fixed provided you can get parts quickly. Which my Kuhn dealer admits is a problem with them. And my Kuhn dealer is even the regional office in this area.


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## Tim/South

My issue with larger Kuhn parts is the cost of shipping.
I bought a relatively new 10 wheel rake at an auction. Gave $2600 and only one other bidder knew the value. 
One of the wheels had been "repaired". 
I called the local dealer and he said a new complete wheel was @ $100.
But he said it had to be shipped by truck which would be another $85.
The warehouse is less than 2 hours up the interstate. If I decide to go with a new wheel I will probably make the trip myself.


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## mlappin

Bought a New Holland HT154 12 wheel brand new in 2004. With center kicker wheels and light kit paid $8000 cash. With each wing able to flex independent of each other and the main frame and each wheel being spring loaded and able to move independently of the others, follows ground contours really well. After getting the wheel rake I began to think of rolabar rakes the same way I do about moldboard plows, cut em up for scrap and buy beer with the proceeds.


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## Teslan

Tim/South. Even $200 doesn't seem like a lot for a part these days, But it shouldn't cost $85 to ship it 2 hours. Thanks for the video Mlappin. I was wondering what the center kicker wheel was for. I guess it's for you folks that spread the hay all over. It would be useless for me as we don't do that out here. I looked at my Kuhn last night and I think it would be very very easy to plumb it so you could use two hydraulic controls to operate the arms independently. Heck there are even two holes in the frame in the back for two more hoses to go through.


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## somedevildawg

You pick up a good deal on that speed rake Tim, they probably coulda stock ordered it for you but you woulda had to wait forever. That new holland rake looks real nice, I just can't get away with that big of a windrow, 8 wheels is about all I can stand, for peanut hay we use a 10 wheel to reach the material.


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## urednecku

Teslan said:


> I looked at my Kuhn last night and I think it would be very very easy to plumb it so you could use two hydraulic controls to operate the arms independently. Heck there are even two holes in the frame in the back for two more hoses to go through.


The Kuhn I looked at at the dealer yesterday would be just a matter of re-plumbing - the cylinders fed from a 'T' splitter @ back of the frame. And they were right out in the open.


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## Tim/South

I will probably add the center wheel at some point. I am trying to get away from running the fluffer on mixed grass hay. I am not picking up the middle of the windrow as well as I like. Especially on thin hay.


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## urednecku

Any body know anything about a ROSSI HAY RAKE? $2999 new, it just came down abut $400.


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## mlappin

somedevildawg said:


> You pick up a good deal on that speed rake Tim, they probably coulda stock ordered it for you but you woulda had to wait forever. That new holland rake looks real nice, I just can't get away with that big of a windrow, 8 wheels is about all I can stand, for peanut hay we use a 10 wheel to reach the material.


You can run the NH rake any where from the wings folded clear out to all the way in. Next one will be a 14 wheel rake so I can rake the field once, then come back and grab the raked rows and quadruple them up.

Right now with the 12 wheel I need to rake the whole field, lock one side up then kick one row towards the other all the way across the field, then drop both sides again and then go over the field again to get em quadrupled up.


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## somedevildawg

urednecku said:


> Any body know anything about a ROSSI HAY RAKE? $2999 new, it just came down abut $400.


I personally don't like them.....cheaply made, but they work ok from what I've heard, I started with a 3pt hitch Rossi


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## somedevildawg

Tim/South said:


> I will probably add the center wheel at some point. I am trying to get away from running the fluffer on mixed grass hay. I am not picking up the middle of the windrow as well as I like. Especially on thin hay.


Roger on the Tedder, just if I have a tight window of op. Or a lot of precipitation


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## wiskydelta

http://konigs.com.au/new-stocklist/new-make/enorossi

I need to bale about 40 acres twice a year so I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on hay equip, but I came across this rake for $700 and it's brand new as the dealer is changing from Ag to Oilfield. Is this thing going to be so crappy that it won't even work or would it be OK for a small time operation?
It's a Enrosi RP6 3pt 6 wheel rake


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## somedevildawg

For that money that's a great deal...although I don't think I've ever seen a 6 wheel 3pt.....just 4 and 5.....they might make them I just haven't seen one....the way the Rossi is set up I believe it's either 4 or 5. Good deal either way....better if it's 5


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## somedevildawg

Well, didn't see your link posted.......but I looked at it and now I'm more confused than ever.


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## urednecku

I replied to this yesterday, but an ISP gremlin didn't let it go thru.


wiskydelta said:


> http://konigs.com.au...w-make/enorossi
> 
> I need to bale about 40 acres twice a year so I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on hay equip, but I came across this rake for $700 and it's brand new as the dealer is changing from Ag to Oilfield. Is this thing going to be so crappy that it won't even work or would it be OK for a small time operation?
> It's a Enrosi RP6 3pt 6 wheel rake


A 3PH 4 wheel rake is what started this thread.
Problem I have with them is when a front tire of your tractor goes into a small dip in the ground, the rake will come off the ground, missing a clump of grass/hay. When the back tires go into that dip, the rake digs into the dirt. MY hayfield has some pretty rough spots in it, so the 3PH rake is not hardly worth putting on the tractor. IF your field is real smooth, it might do OK. I feel right now if I sold this one for scrap, I'd get more than it is worth as a rake.
IF they are selling that rake for 1/3 of their advertised price, see if they will sell you one of the "caddy" rakes for the same discount....I think you would be a lot happier.

Looking again at that ad, I see _*ALL 3*_ wheel rakes state " _*11ft 2in working width,*_ cat 1 linkage hitch, wil rake, turn or spread hay, weight 200kg." and even have same *"*Stock ID: 7519". Only difference is "RP4 :RP5 and RP6"
*Does this mean all 3 rakes will rake an 11ft 2 in width??*


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## Nitram

I bought a Ogden 12 wheel caddy type. And I love it. Its not real heavy duty but for a small timer like me its perfect. Bought it from my neighbor for 1500 have used it for two years. still have my roller bar rake just in case. Martin ogdenmetalworks.com


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## wiskydelta

Thanks, for the input folks, I think I'll go ahead and get it, for the price it's about all I can afford right now and it's got to be better than nothing and it is a 6 wheel not the 4 wheel in the picture.


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## urednecku

OK, Think I got a heck of a deal on a 10 wheel JD 702 rake. Only 1 broken tooth, and 1 'semi-loose' bearing on 1 hub. Bunch of new teeth on the rake, and several new ones to go with it. Got it setting in my yard now for less than $1500. And I only had to drive about 7 or 8 miles to get it. I think it's got more 'wear' on it from sitting out-side than from use.

I wanna THANK YOU to all that had input & suggestions.


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## Vol

Martin, that is a really interesting rake. Can you let just one side down if you choose?

Regards, Mike

http://www.ogdenmeta...Hay Runner_.htm


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## Nitram

To be honest I haven't YET but both sides have a pin lock in the up position so... I am thinking yes my hoses are old so not sure about the added pressure on them or if I am worry whort. I have used it in some nice praire hay and not had issues with clogging as some complain about. I will post some pics of mine latter and will give an update prob tommorro about the one side issue Martin

update I see the confusion now I have the AGC style rake caddy and yes it will per the site. I like the hybrid version but money is an issue lol? Martin


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## Nitram

Pic test 1





  








OGDEN3




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Nitram


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Jul 2, 2012


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## jturbo10

I have an 8 wheel Kuhn speed rake and it works like a dream. I rake two 9 1/2 mower widths together at about 6-7 mph and it works great. Did not get the kicker option and really don't need it here in East Texas so far. Dealer did not recommend the option either. You do need to be sure the hydraulic system on your tractor is in "free flow/float position" or the rake wheels will not follow the contours. My rake does a lot better job than my old side delivery rake ever thought of doing.


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