# Old style hay rakes



## billns (Aug 25, 2014)

I need some advice ,I am just starting to cut hay for myself . I have just bought a KUHN drum mower and a MF224 baler so my budget is shot , I need a rake , Last year i used a friends old side delivery rake works fine ,A neighbour is offering a wheel rake . What are your thoughts ? Should I find a few bucks for a side delivery or the wheel rake ? Hopefully in a few years i can afford something better .


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Side delivery.


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Lots of cheap H&S 10 wheel rakes out there. Also the Vermeer R23's are drawing some bargains

Trey


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

treymo said:


> Lots of cheap H&S 10 wheel rakes out there. Also the Vermeer R23's are drawing some bargains
> Trey


Good point.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

treymo said:


> Lots of cheap H&S 10 wheel rakes out there. Also the Vermeer R23's are drawing some bargains
> 
> Trey


He bought a Massey baler. I think you guys are talking about different degrees of cheap.


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

Side delivery. Can't beat a NH256/258, and if you end up doing more acreage you can just buy a 252 hitch and another side delivery. I personally like the JD660 or 74 rakes better but they aren't as easy to find.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Kinda depends on where you are and the conditions and what you're doing...

If you have a lot of acres to cover, big fields, few obstacles, then a wheel rake is definitely faster because it's so much wider...

If you have a lot of smaller fields, with a lot of weird shapes or obstacles to go around, the side delivery will be a much better fit for you...

The crop you're running through it can make a big difference too... from my experience, wheel rakes don't like tall stuff like johsongrass or haygrazer (sorghum/sudan) and such very much-- stalks can slip between the tines on the wheels and get pulled up with the wheel, sometimes locking the wheel up by getting stuck between the arm and wheel, then you get a huge WAD of hay... guy I used to cut for was doing a lot of prairie hay with johnsongrass spots in it here and there and the rake would ball up a huge wad so often he just folded it "on the go" so the wad would drop out when the rake went vertical, then unfold it again, and leave about a 30-40 foot strip of unraked hay in the field with the huge wad... Remember too that drum mowers lay the grass the opposite way than sickles do, so that can kind of make a difference too... Windguards on the wheels can prevent most of that sort of thing (shields that cover the "spokes" of the wheels so nothing can go through them).

Personally I run a 256 and a 258 behind a home-made bridge hitch I picked up at the auction for $150... I had a nearly new 256 and bought a 258 at the sale and rebuilt it like new... works great. When I was doing custom jobs, I could drop one rake and hitch it to the tractor to do little irregular fields, or pull both rakes and cover a lot of ground on my place or custom jobs with big fields in a hurry. Used rolabar rakes are pretty reasonable price-wise as well.

One other thing-- a V wheel rake brings everything to the center, so if you're in a light part of the field you may be stuck with a piddling little windrow.... and in heavy parts, it's hard not to make the windrow too big, because everything is being pulled to the middle. With side-deliveries, if you're in a thin area on one side of a field, sometimes I'll make 2 or even 3 passes with the tandem hitched rakes (4-6 rake widths) to make the windrow, where in heavy areas only one pass (or in particularly heavy areas, I can swing the rear rake behind the front one hydraulically and rake a single swath on top of another to make a windrow the right size... Lot more flexibility that way...

Later and good luck! OL JR


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have never been able to get a 4 wheel 3 pt hitch rake to make a windrow.

We raked hay for years with a side delivery roll bar rake.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm going to through a wrench in this discussion...... Your location indicates a part of the Canada that's difficult to make hay in. Have you thought about a Tedder? 
On he topic at hand..... Side delivery roll bar, You can find one dirt cheep if you look.


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## billns (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks for all the good imput guys . I was talking to a farmer today who agrees Don't bother with a wheel rake I used a side delivery last year it worked ok But as DSLinc pointed out it is hard to make hay here i will buy a tedder Just can't afford it this year Most of the farmers here use tedders


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Are there any rake/tedder combos available in your area? HERE, you can buy a NH254 rake/redder cheaper than a decent bar rake.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I would also go with the side delivery over the wheel rake.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I have a 3 pt mounted JD350 roll-a-bar type side delivery rake and like it. Makes a nice windrow and is very nimble on the 3 pt.


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

King of Cheap here and (embarrassingly small time) hobby farmer. I was stuck using a Very Old IH No. 5 side delivery rake and cut with a SFI 2555 52" drum mower. I'm new at haying and I kept getting a roped winrow. Hay dried very slowly and we have low humidity here. This year I spent money, a lot for me anyways, and bought a brand new Morro 280/8 rotary rake from Agri-Supply. I've not taken delivery of it yet but after the first of next month I'll review it and post. I do only very small hay plots behind neighbors houses and need small nimble equipment. I might only get 20 bales at time for their goats. bjr


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## CaseIH84 (Jun 16, 2013)

I also would take the side delivery rake over the wheel rake. I have nothing against the older wheel rakes, I used one for several years when just starting out and it got the job done. It definitely made tighter windrow that did not seem to dry down evenly. Side delivery seems slightly better but I think the king of all rakes are the rotary. Guides hay into nice fluffy windrow that seems to finish drying nice and even.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The one thing about bar rakes is they're adjustable, even though it appears (from seeing them at auctions) that they're always adjusted wrong for a fluffier windrow.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> The one thing about bar rakes is they're adjustable, even though it appears (from seeing them at auctions) that they're always adjusted wrong for a fluffier windrow.


How do you make a fluffier windrow?


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

On a New Holland it is the slide adjustment on the front of rake. I didn't realize there were adjustments on those rakes. Was bored in shop one day and read the owners manual front to back and learned alot about them that I did not know. I had always thought it was a adjustment to deal with different drawbar heights.I grew up using these rakes and when I got my rotary never thought I would have one again.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

1586 has it. Front slide adjustment should be all of the way up. I think the problem (aside from ignorance) is good ol' gravity. I'd be tempted to tack the thing in the upright position.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Bgriffin856 said:


> How do you make a fluffier windrow?


The front pivot point on the rake basket frame, where the cable "shifter" is to put the rake in gear (on a New Holland anyway) is usually a ball connector with a bolt that slides up and down in a grooved plate...

Sliding the ball socket to the very top of the groove will tilt the basket backwards somewhat and make a fluffier windrow. Sliding the ball to the very bottom of the groove and tightening it down will tilt the basket forward a little, causing the rake to roll up a tighter, more "roped" windrow.

Also, don't run a rolabar rake too low-- and most people do, trying to get every last blade of grass in the windrow... When you stop suddenly in the field, if the bars don't freewheel at least a turn or two, you're running it too low. The tines can JUST BARELY touch the dirt at the tips, and a rake operating in the field might show a tiny bit of dirt on the very tips of the tines, but if it's more than that-- it's running TOO LOW. Running too low not only causes the hay to "rope" more and makes a tighter windrow (because the basket isn't spinning fast enough because it's "dragging" on the ground) but puts a lot of dirt in the hay, and it's absolute murder on the gearbox, bearings, and of course the tines...

The faster you run a rolabar rake, the fluffier the windrow will be as well... I rake at 6 mph with my Ford tractors-- 6th gear at 1800 rpm...

Later! OL JR


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

Okay, I'm always willling (need) to learn something. Most of the posters are apparently knowledgeable on NH's. I've a Old IH No. 5. Would there be a way on tilting the basket rearwards for a fluffier windrow? I've making way to many roped windrows. I totally agree on keeping the teeth outta the dirt (learning curve here). I'm trying to understand the adjustments on this old rake to make it produce a fluffier windrow. Probably guilty of Hyjacking the thread but the subject was close to my interest as well. Any old rake IH's people here? bjr


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

bjr said:


> Okay, I'm always willling (need) to learn something. Most of the posters are apparently knowledgeable on NH's. I've a Old IH No. 5. Would there be a way on tilting the basket rearwards for a fluffier windrow? I've making way to many roped windrows. I totally agree on keeping the teeth outta the dirt (learning curve here). I'm trying to understand the adjustments on this old rake to make it produce a fluffier windrow. Probably guilty of Hyjacking the thread but the subject was close to my interest as well. Any old rake IH's people here? bjr


Not sure, never ran one of those... not familiar with it...

Post some pics and I'll see if I can help you out...

Of course, if all else fails, READ THE MANUAL... LOL

Later! OL JR


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

I just bought a NH 256 to use here in Georgia. Found it in Alabama and I do not think it has been used much at all as nothing on it is worn, the paint isn't very good because the previous owner stored it under an oak tree. I got an excellent deal on it though, I had talked to a few guys who have used all types of rakes and they said a Rolabar type rake would be best for the uneven fields since the bars are right in front of the tires it would follow the ground better. I am new to the hay business as well, good luck on finding a rake!


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

FYI

https://archive.org/details/New_Holland_256_258_260_Rolabar_Rake_


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

The biggest problem I see with rakes (and I've looked at a LOT of them on dealer lots and at auctions and private treaty sales, etc) that I see is that guys run the damn things WAY too low... Basically they try to "plow" with the rake in an effort to get every last blade of hay on the field. This is torture to absolute destruction for a rake, because regardless of the type or kind of rake, they are NOT meant to handle that...

When you pull into the field and get ready to rake, with a rolabar type anyway, you usually have to jump down and crank down the basket from transport position to working position, and shift it into gear to engage the basket to the ground drive (unless it's a hydraulically driven rake with an orbit motor running off tractor hydraulics-- whole other animal). The most critical thing is setting the basket height... sitting with the tractor and rake on LEVEL GROUND in the field, the basket suspension cranks should be adjusted so the tine tips are about 1 inch above the ground to, at the LOWEST, maybe BARELY touching the ground... the longer the stubble (higher the cutting height) the higher the basket should be adjusted. A 1 inch gap between the LOWEST bar (on a five bar rolabar rake, turn it so that the "star wheels" are pointing DOWN with the two top-most bars LEVEL WITH EACH OTHER-- this puts the lowest bar at the LOWEST POINT of its travel as it rotates for proper adjustment) is a good starting point. If you have a heavy, dense stubble cut high, sometimes 2-3 inches of clearance will still produce a good raking job without leaving too much behind or picking up too much duff and dirt and overloading the rake or "dethatching" the stubble too much... If, on the other hand, the stubble is thinner or cut shorter, or if the ground is rather uneven, then a lower height will gather more crop, but it also is harder on the rake, and puts more duff and dirt in the windrow as well. When the rake is running in the field, even a very "level" field, there will ALWAYS be slight undulations and irregularities in the soil surface, which will cause the rake to bounce and jostle slightly as it works, allowing the basket to, in effect, work at a LOWER height than the initial adjustment. The rougher the field is, the more pronounced this effect... that's the purpose of the basket suspension arms,cranks, and springs. The rake should NEVER be adjusted so that it's CONSTANTLY scratching the ground or leaving noticeable scratch marks where the tines are continuously hitting the ground. Even in a properly adjusted rake, the tines will OCCASIONALLY hit the ground as the rake wheels drop into depressions or bounce over irregularities and the basket drops from inertia against the suspension springs, but the rake should never CONSTANTLY SCRUB/SCRATCH the ground to the point it's leaving visible marks. Typically, the delivery end of the basket can be operated about a half-inch higher than the leading end of the basket-- the windrow as it's forming helps the delivery end to rake cleaner for some reason-- maybe the load makes it run a little lower, I don't know exactly why but I've found that if you adjust a rake perfectly level that usually after a short test run the delivery end is running TOO LOW and needs a crank or two up.

Pull into the swath and get the tractor and rake up to operating speed, run about 100 feet, and then stop the tractor quickly-- the rake basket should FREEWHEEL for at least a turn or two, and both ratchets on the drive hubs should be clicking smoothly. If the rake SLAMS to a stop when you quickly stop the tractor, it's operating too low. If the rake basket stops, drags forward, then turns easy til the next bar is straight down and does that again, making a "lurching motion" as it turns, or stops and "springs back" and rotates backward a little when the basket quits rolling, it's operating too low. It's POSSIBLE you're in an uneven spot and the rake wheels are in a depression, the rake basket is over a high spot, the tractor wheels are in a depression, or the front tractor wheels are on a high spot, which is making the basket LOOK like it's too low-- pull forward a ways and stop again, and observe the basket's behavior-- it SHOULD freewheel to a stop after a turn or two. If not, get off the tractor and go look closely at the ground behind the rake-- if you see the characteristic "slash pattern" of the tines hitting the dirt "constantly" or in large areas, or if you see bits of dirt stuck to the end of the tines, then it's OPERATING TOO LOW.... give it a couple cranks up on both cranks and try again.

It's a balancing act between operating too high and leaving too much crop behind, and operating TOO LOW trying to get every last leaf and stem and tearing the hell out of the rake... Plus operating too low, besides slowly (sometimes rapidly) destroying the rake, puts a lot of duff (dead plant residue that drops to the soil surface and forms humus) and dirt (ash content) into the windrow, most of which will inevitably end up in the bale, degrading its quality. Better to run at the proper height and lose a little more crop that damage the rake and stubble and produce a tiny bit more lower quality hay.

In short stands or light hay, losses are higher as more hay "rides through" between the rake teeth and ends up on the ground behind the rake, or isn't picked up, or "floats over" the basket... Some of these losses are unavoidable, some can and should be rectified by raking at the proper moisture levels (wilted flat, roughly 50% moisture, depending on your local conditions and drying conditions) and raking at the proper speed and height for conditions. Sometimes tilting the basket down at the front (the slide adjustment by the gearbox shift cable handle) to tighten the windrow helps in dry, light crop conditions. In fact my recommendation is to run the front of the basket adjustment all the way down unless you NEED to raise it up, when raking heavy, thick, coarse grass hays (like haygrazer and such) into large windrows where you want to minimize roping and leave the windrow as 'fluffy' as possible, and give the most frame clearance for rolling a big heavy windrow (by moving the rake frame to the top of the slot, you get more room between the ground and the frame). Otherwise, I leave it full down myself for most conditions...

If you're shopping for a rake, carefully inspect the basket-- look for bent or broken tines which is typical on a rake run too low-- lots of lost or frequently replaced tines is another tip-off... Grab each rake bar in turn and "twist" them back and forth, or grab the tine tips and try to "rock" the bar forward and backwards... a rake that has been consistently run too low will have slop in the bar that will allow the bar to twist the tines back and forth... a sure sign the bearings in the bar ends are about shot. Roll the basket and feel and listen for dragging teeth, and look at the stripper bars for teeth that are scraping the stripper bars because they've been bent (some rubbing is natural and acceptable on a worked rake-- tines naturally get "knocked around" some and can move a little on their mounting bolts and clips (for spring steel teeth) on the bar-- for rubber teeth, look for stretched, torn, or pulled rubbers or bent tines from repeated impacts). Tine tips working dirt will rapidly wear off round or "tapered" to the rear (although very long-serving tines operated properly will show this as well if they've been on the rake for many seasons or a rake seeing a lot of use). Check the idler star wheel and drive star wheel on each end of the rake, that the bars attach too... grab them at the top and bottom and try to "rock" them back and forth, up and down... excessive slop is a sure sign the rake has been abused and is worn out, or the bearings are about shot. Look for loose bar bearing bolts (the bolt that goes through the bearings and attaches the bar and bearings to the rake's end star wheels...) and egged-out holes, rounded over or severely worn nuts, "hammered out" metal from a loose bar bolt banging in its hole during operation, etc. Replacing star wheels isn't a particularly cheap fix, nor is it easy. Check the gearbox end star wheel in the same way for the same things-- excess slop from running too low and being abused, shot bearings, loose keys/worn keyways between the drive hub and gearbox output shaft, etc. Check the driveshafts and U-joints for excess flop/slop and condition-- have they been greased regularly?? Tons of caked-on dirt and hard dry grease (soil dust and plant detritus is normal-- caked on DIRT (soil mixed with grease) is a sign the rake's spent a lot of time run down in the dirt. Look at the condition of the tires-- are they worn slick or nearly so from trying to turn a rake digging into the dirt?? Check the hubs for excess slop in the ratchet clutches; listen for broken pawls not engaging or parts rattling around from being overstressed trying to turn a rake running too low in the dirt...

Look at the cranks and crank rods behind the springs and front suspension pivots-- are they greased and have they been working up and down?? A couple inches of obvious wear and grease distribution from "bounce" is normal-- but more than that is usually an indication the rake has been run over VERY rough ground quite a bit or run too low most of the time-- the teeth hit the ground and basically have to bounce the basket up as they dig through the dirt as the rake turns, which lifts the basket up some, resulting in a longer wear or grease pattern on the suspension crank rods... Look at the condition of the bellcrank pivots (the arms that attach the rake basket to the frame, which pivot up and down as the hand cranks are turned in or out to adjust the height...) Are the bellcrank pivots severely worn?? (some are greasable, many aren't and thus can wear rapidly allowing the bellcrank to 'lean over' under the load and wear the hole "lopsided"... inspect the drag link pins and pivots that attach the bellcranks to the rake basket for excess wear... Rakes running too low "in the dirt" will have a LOT more wear for their age in these bellcrank pivot pins and suspension link pivots than rakes run at a proper height, because rakes run too low vibrate up and down a lot more and there's more abrasive dirt flying up into/around these parts, accelerating wear...

Hope this helps! OL J R


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## Randyreb54 (Apr 3, 2016)

i'm a newbe and we just won a bar rake at an auction "was told to try and get that kind .... not sure what model it is want to get a book on it so i can work on it if need be ...also seems to have something missing on the right side... any help ? also not sure what all the handles are for


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Randyreb54 said:


> i'm a newbe and we just won a bar rake at an auction "was told to try and get that kind .... not sure what model it is want to get a book on it so i can work on it if need be ...also seems to have something missing on the right side... any help ? also not sure what all the handles are for


Not familiar with your particular rake, but I will take a stab at some of your questions.

It appears to be Hydraulic raise and lower. On the right side of the rake (as seated in the tractor seat pulling the rake) and inside the right frame rail on the front pipe brace is a piece sticking upwith @1 inch hole; behind that and on the outside of the frame is another piece about like the front one. A hyd cyl is pinned in between the two for raising and lowering the rake.
The crank handle that protrudes between the frame rails toward the hitch will be your limiting crank to set the amount it will lower (needs to be adjusted to keep the teeth an inch or so from the ground). On the left side is another crank that is situated perpendicular to the ground; it is to adjust (or level) the rake so that the teeth are an inch or so from the ground on BOTH sides of the rake.

The aforementioned are just my observances and speculations and for full disclosure, I DID NOT sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take my advise with a grain of salt.

Also, looks like its going to need a little dental work. The teeth being mismatched is not a huge concern if they are the same length/angle of attack, but the gaps of multiple teeth missing will leave hay behind in your field.

73, Mark
PS, Welcome to Haytalk


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## Randyreb54 (Apr 3, 2016)

thanks sooo much for what info you did give me ! need to find out what brand and model # so i can address the "teeth" hyd... and any other issues that may have with it


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Randyreb54 said:


> i'm a newbe and we just won a bar rake at an auction "was told to try and get that kind .... not sure what model it is want to get a book on it so i can work on it if need be ...also seems to have something missing on the right side... any help ? also not sure what all the handles are for


 That sure looks like the Annual Peterson Auction!! Trees are a dead give away. lol Missed going to it this year.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Man that IS an OLD one. Still has a straight rear axle rather than offset. Is it maybe a Massey? Never seen one like that down in these parts.

Not sure if that's set up for a hydraulic cylinder lift or if it's just a weird crank system. Looks like a single-crank height adjustment to me, but can't see the entire lift system up top so hard to say. Clear that it's got a single lift pipe across the top lifting both sides of the rake basket at once. Guess it would have to have some sort of turnbuckle or adjustment on one side to "level" the basket end to end. I'd be interested to see what the gearbox and driveline side of it looks like (from the back).

I bought a 258 New Holland well used at the auction years ago and did some work on it. It came with the rubber teeth and was missing quite a few. The originals seemed to hold up pretty well, but the replacements would often tear apart, tossing the tooth in the field and leaving the steel base still bolted to the rake bars. I got sick and tired of replacing rubber teeth at twice the cost of spring steel teeth and having it tossing plugs of rubber and steel tines in the field, and started retrofitting it with coiled spring steel teeth. There's very few rubber teeth left on mine now. Personally I'd NEVER recommend the rubber teeth. I guess if one has a specific NEED for them (raking beans or something where coil teeth can cause excess shatter or whatever) and they store their rakes indoors where no sun can age the rubber they might be okay. Otherwise I won't have them, period. Like most things, the "new stuff" you get for replacements can't hold a candle to the "old stuff" it originally came with.

Good luck finding a book for it. If you can't find a builder's plate (serial number plate with the manufacturer and model) on it you'll probably have to pull a tooth off it and take it to the ag supply and try to match something up for replacements.

Good luck! OL J R


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Randyreb54 said:


> not sure what model it is want to get a book on it so i can work on it if need be .


 Case 281






73, Mark


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