# Fertilizer advice for reseeding Orchardgrass on Complicated soils



## Gwydyr (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi, 
Bear with me because I have a lot of information that I am not sure how to interpret based on my limited experience. I have been working on about 20 acres of thinning stands of mixed grass with some clover that I would like to overseed (broadcast and drag) with a 2:1 mixture of Orchard grass/Timothy this August/September after 2nd cutting. This is on some river bottom land in Western Massachusetts that in the past has been very productive before having little put back into for the past 10 years. A neighbor will bring cows over to graze down regrowth so the seedlings don't get out-competed. I'd like to get the soil in the best shape I can for reseeding, and have some decent 1st and 2nd cutting yields in the meantime. We will be spreading in mid-April when the ground has dried out a bit.

While in the future I can micro-manage more with a 3 point spreader, right now I am away at college so I need to rent a buggy from Crop Production Services so my Dad who has a bad back can handle everything himself. Therefore I need 1 mixture that will be sufficient for about 5 different soil types. I have included soil tests below. The soil map included shows that the heavier soils (last digits of the file name for the test are 122 and represent soils 30 and 225 in the southern field on the map) have the great potential, but I am experiencing dissapointing yields thanks to the low pH there. These areas are also poorly drained and are compacted as a result of ruts on the soft ground. I've deduced that the areas with the lowest pH have not been getting enough P based on the soil test and the deep green but stunted look of the reeds canary grass that grows on this wet ground. I had put on a 200-50-100 mix last year which I think was too much N and not enough P. I put on 3 tons/acre of lime on everything last fall but I doubt it has sunk in yet, and I figure I will need to add quite a bit more to my target of 6 in the more acidic areas (I am hoping to find a source for wood ash instead of lime in the future). The soil also has excess aluminum which also hurts P availability from what I understand. Should I consider gypsum later on to lighten the soil and help the aluminum leach out? I am planning on sub-soiling to help break up the compacted crust that makes water sit on top immediately after I plant in the fall as well.

The other areas to consider (test 124 representing the 97 and 746 soils on the map) are far lighter and the tests don't ask for ask as much P and pH is better. The northern 225 soils (test 122) on the map are half way in between, well drained and good pH so they have the best yields, but are worn out of P and K so they require the same 150-50-180 baseline amount. What is a good compromise? The soil test suggests to "Apply half the recommended K2O after the first cut, and the remainder after the second or third cut". If I want to do it all at once, is it better to apply 90lbs this spring, and then apply the other 90 K (and additional P in the areas that need it) again in the fall before around the time I plant?

Thanks for your help.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Looks like you need to lime the soil. This will raise the pH (yours is low to very low) and provide calcium, and your soils are low on that element. Also aluminum is very toxic to many plants and becomes available at low pH levels. Until you get the pH up with lime, forget the rest of the discussion.


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## Gwydyr (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks, that makes sense that fertilizer would be somewhat of a waste if the pH is still that low. I should mentioned that the test that recorded these low pH's were done last August, before we added lime. So I'm hoping that the 3 tons of lime has started to push the pH down by now so we can plant in the fall. Is it worth it to put anything at all down on the areas that are low pH?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

The whole thing is too involved for me at the moment. Could be that someone else will chime in.

Based on just an informal assessment, and I'm not an agronomist, I would broadcast something like a 15-15-15 (or what ever is a local formula) and then recheck the soils again next year once the pH is up and you have grown on this land for a season. Tests every year afterwards will get you going in the right direction, and you will get a feeling of what's going on over a longer period of time. After a 3-4 year history, trends will develop and you can most likely skip testing some years. Don't get too complicated with it all.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Looks like you need Hi-cal lime and some P&K. Around a ton/acre of lime and some 18-10-22-6s fertilizer or something equivalent @ 400#/ac. twice a year (maybe 1 application this spring and 1 after 1st cut is pulled off).


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

You're too late IMO to spread the lime for this season. Spread it after first cut or in the fall....won't do you much good anyway for this season since it'll probably take 6 months to neutralize the soil.


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## Gwydyr (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks for the advice, I think I will go with 250lbs/acre of something like the 18-10-22 you mentioned (I think they will give me 10-5-10) as I cannot afford 400/acre right now, and then 50lbs of P & 100lbs of K again after 2nd cutting if you think that will give enough to get the seedlings started. I can only lime in the fall when the ground is harder anyways, but hopefully I can find woodash by then so that will cover pH and K plus some manure to help cover the seeds. I appreciate you all taking the time to respond, the P is most expensive for me and I think I was wasting N so your advice has saved me some money.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I wouldn't spend very much on K and P until the PH was up tp about 6.2-6.5.

I'd put about 2-3 tons/ac of lime on this year and about 1/2 the fertilizer this year, then start putting on the recommended fertilizer next year. The fertilizer won't do much good until the PH is right.

Just thinking.....

Ralph


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

If you haven't yet found a source for woodash you can try RMI in Holderness, NH. Woodash is only half as effective as lime for correcting Ph , but, it is very fast acting and will cheaply supply much of the K you are needing.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Wood ash sounds like a good deal if you can do some correction on your pH and supply all your potash. Is wood ash a byproduct how is it obtained where does it come from and is there a lot of it available


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

endrow said:


> Is wood ash a byproduct how is it obtained where does it come from


From the same place as the Three Wise Men.... They came from afar

(read with a ******* twang afar=a fire)

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. The little feller on my left shoulder said "ah, go ahead and say it" and the little feller on my right shoulder said "leave me out of this and get me a beer".

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

glasswrongsize said:


> From the same place as the Three Wise Men.... They came from afar
> (read with a ******* twang afar=a fire)
> 
> Sorry, just couldn't help myself. The little feller on my left shoulder said "ah, go ahead and say it" and the little feller on my right shoulder said "leave me out of this and get me a beer".
> 73, Mark


What are they burning the wood for? If I took all the ash from the first 5 years I lived here and heated strictly with wood, it would not amount to much. 2-3 30 gallon cans a year.


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