# Chisel plow or offset disc



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I got a new piece of land a couple of weeks ago that I have now sprayed to kill the sod and I know it is late to be planting hay but I really need to try to get this out so I have an established stand by next spring. The problem is this ground is crazy rough....it even has a dang bank going through it and is nothing but high and low places. I think all the holes were caused from where the stumps were when the land was cleared. This ground has been in pasture since it was cleared in the 50s.

I have an offset disc harrow that I could cut the ground with but a friend has offered his chisel plow for me to use. Which would be better to use for primary tillage?

I'm guessing that after the ground is loosened up the best way to help level and get it prepared to plant would be to use my tandem disc and I have found a cultimulcher that I could borrow to get it packed. Any better ideas?


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

If you have a tandem disc it's probably a disc harrow, unless you have a heavy offset disc or breaking disc the chisel plow is gonna be your best bet. Of course this is only my personal experience, and soil type plays a huge role. We have heavy black clay *here*.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'd think chisel plow but depending on how deep the holes are you're almost certain to overwork the ground in an effort to fill the holes. I'd probably level it fairly well and plant a grain this fall to have a better opportunity to level it right later, but you didn't ask that.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Farmboy555 said:


> If you have a tandem disc it's probably a disc harrow, unless you have a heavy offset disc or breaking disc the chisel plow is gonna be your best bet. Of course this is only my personal experience, and soil type plays a huge role. We have heavy black clay *here*.


 I have both an offset disc harrow and a tandem finishing disc harrow. I just was wondering if maybe the chisel plow would work better for primary tillage than the offset disc.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Probably use the chisel plow to tear it all up, loosen the soil and get some good chunks, then use the offset for leveling and further tillage, and finally use the tandem to finish off before you plant. A little rain in between passes makes a world of difference when renovating virgin or old pasture ground.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> I'd think chisel plow but depending on how deep the holes are you're almost certain to overwork the ground in an effort to fill the holes. I'd probably level it fairly well and plant a grain this fall to have a better opportunity to level it right later, but you didn't ask that.


 I agree that planting a grain would be better so I would have another opportunity to get the ground smooth before planting a perrienial hay crop but I am seriously considering getting out of the grain farming as I was just informed today that I'm losing my 80 acres of decent crop ground this fall and I don't really have enough crop ground left to justify a combine.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I like a chisel plow. It rips the ground up well.

One thing to consider with a chisel plow is that you may pull up some rocks. If the land was cleared then pastured there is a chance it was never tilled and the rocks removed.

When I disk after chisel plowing I can sink the disk up to the axels on the first pass. I do not know if you want to till the ground enough right now to be able to pull a drag behind the disk. That is what I did to level some ground after digging stumps. The chisel did well, the disk and drag finished the job. But this was on land that had been tilled years ago and the rocks plowed up and removed.

I am also rushing to get some grass planted before it is too late. I will cross my fingers for both of us.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> I like a chisel plow. It rips the ground up well.
> One thing to consider with a chisel plow is that you may pull up some rocks. If the land was cleared then pastured there is a chance it was never tilled and the rocks removed.
> When I disk after chisel plowing I can sink the disk up to the axels on the first pass. I do not know if you want to till the ground enough right now to be able to pull a drag behind the disk. That is what I did to level some ground after digging stumps. The chisel did well, the disk and drag finished the job. But this was on land that had been tilled years ago and the rocks plowed up and removed.
> 
> I am also rushing to get some grass planted before it is too late. I will cross my fingers for both of us.


 I farm a field right beside this one and worked the ground on it last fall and the offset disc pulled up an insane amount of rocks....I picked rocks for a week. Will the chisel plow pull up more rock than the offset disc?

What type of drag would work good to pull behind the disc....would a telephone pole work?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I farm a field right beside this one and worked the ground on it last fall and the offset disc pulled up an insane amount of rocks....I picked rocks for a week. Will the chisel plow pull up more rock than the offset disc?
> 
> What type of drag would work good to pull behind the disc....would a telephone pole work?


You'll think it's making the rocks at the rate they'll come. Better pick em quick if you're going to get everything done!


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I farm a field right beside this one and worked the ground on it last fall and the offset disc pulled up an insane amount of rocks....I picked rocks for a week. Will the chisel plow pull up more rock than the offset disc?
> 
> What type of drag would work good to pull behind the disc....would a telephone pole work?


In my experience, yes a chisel plow will pull up more rocks. The curved shanks will roll them up. The disk will tend to cover some after being plowed up.

A phone pole will work. I like to drag with something more flat on the bottom. The flat sided bottom tends to grab and collect more dirt. The utility pole will roll over when dirt begins to build.

After I dug my (1200) stumps, I ran the chisel to get the smaller roots. Then I disked, then disked pulling the drag. I have a long 8x8 creosote timber I use as a drag. That series of processes left the ground very smooth. I have been planting rye grass then millet since then to keep it from washing. This fall is the first permanent grass being planted.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> In my experience, yes a chisel plow will pull up more rocks. The curved shanks will roll them up. The disk will tend to cover some after being plowed up.
> A phone pole will work. I like to drag with something more flat on the bottom. The flat sided bottom tends to grab and collect more dirt. The utility pole will roll over when dirt begins to build.
> 
> After I dug my (1200) stumps, I ran the chisel to get the smaller roots. Then I disked, then disked pulling the drag. I have a long 8x8 creosote timber I use as a drag. That series of processes left the ground very smooth. I have been planting rye grass then millet since then to keep it from washing. This fall is the first permanent grass being planted.


 I can see how a flat bottom on a drag would work better....I can't think of anything that I have laying around with a flat bottom that is 12 foot long. I may be able to get a piece of railroad track but that would not be big enough in diameter to pull the soil would it? What would be the best way to attach the drag to the disk?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I can see how a flat bottom on a drag would work better....I can't think of anything that I have laying around with a flat bottom that is 12 foot long. I may be able to get a piece of railroad track but that would not be big enough in diameter to pull the soil would it? What would be the best way to attach the drag to the disk?


We had a pole and later an I-beam. They'll both pull some dirt. So will the railroad iron. Cousin uses one. Just attach with a chain on each end.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I can see how a flat bottom on a drag would work better....I can't think of anything that I have laying around with a flat bottom that is 12 foot long. I may be able to get a piece of railroad track but that would not be big enough in diameter to pull the soil would it? What would be the best way to attach the drag to the disk?


I am wondering if you could nail a 2x8 to the bottom of the phone pole well enough to make it stay?

We have 2 eye bolts through the timber we use. Salvaged them from an old utility pole. The eye bolt is about in the middle on each end.

Attach with a chain or cable. The longer the chain or cable, the more dirt it will gather. Shortening will pull on a slight upward angle and not dig in as much.

The extra drag/weight in the back of the disk may make the rear section dig deeper and over lap more in the middle. The drag can usually take that out.

A railroad rail will work. It is harder to attach the chain or cable. I would suggest weilding a hook or eyelet on each end of the rail. Pull from the narrow side and let the wide flat part do the dragging. You can simply wrap a chain around the what ever you use to drag. That does tend to leave a small trail where the chain digs in.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Cline- I would chisel, maybe cross chisel, fertilize and lime if needed, then disc and plant whatever you can get cheap-rye or whatever just for a cover, let it heave during the winter and hit it early-I am guessing that is early march for you in western NC. Are you going for OG? You should be able to plant that ok in spring. Can't beat the cultimulcher for smoothing ground out


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

As for a drag, we used to have a telephone pole attached to it was a section of chain link fence, we had a pipe threaded through the chain link that then was chained to a disk. Or just to a tractor. The chain link helped break up the clumps as well as made tight turns a little more forgiving.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> Cline- I would chisel, maybe cross chisel, fertilize and lime if needed, then disc and plant whatever you can get cheap-rye or whatever just for a cover, let it heave during the winter and hit it early-I am guessing that is early march for you in western NC. Are you going for OG? You should be able to plant that ok in spring. Can't beat the cultimulcher for smoothing ground out


 The ground has already been limed a few days ago....figured I needed to get it on before I worked the ground so it could be incorporated good.

I was hoping to plant orchard grass....it really worries me planting it in the spring as in a average year this ground is droughty.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

If you have a good heavy duty chisel plow I'd definitely run it through first. It should go deeper than even a heavy double offset disc harrow. Around here they call a heavy disc harrow, a bog harrow for some reason, you don't usually see them listed that way but that's what we've always heard them called.

Here's my wife running the Amco F-17 Double Offset Bog Harrow. It's the primary tillage tool here. She had a CaseIH Conser-Til 6700 but it was too much for the tractor. My late FIL bought it years ago after someone talked him into buying it but she sold it a few years ago. Probably should have kept it and took some of the chisel shanks off and kept running it. The red clay here this year seems to be way more cloddy than usual but between the Amco F-17, the CaseIH 475 double offset finish disc and Precision Welding field cultivator with spike bar and crumbler basket the fields are not looking too bad. We're thinking the clods are due to all the rain we had and then going right in afterwards and mowing the Soybeans and Millet and actually leaving ruts in the fields. It seems the clods are right where the tractor tracks would have been.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> If you have a good heavy duty chisel plow I'd definitely run it through first. It should go deeper than even a heavy double offset disc harrow. Around here they call a heavy disc harrow, a bog harrow for some reason, you don't usually see them listed that way but that's what we've always heard them called.
> 
> Here's my wife running the Amco F-17 Double Offset Bog Harrow. It's the primary tillage tool here. She had a CaseIH Conser-Til 6700 but it was too much for the tractor. My late FIL bought it years ago after someone talked him into buying it but she sold it a few years ago. Probably should have kept it and took some of the chisel shanks off and kept running it. The red clay here this year seems to be way more cloddy than usual but between the Amco F-17, the CaseIH 475 double offset finish disc and Precision Welding field cultivator with spike bar and crumbler basket the fields are not looking too bad. We're thinking the clods are due to all the rain we had and then going right in afterwards and mowing the Soybeans and Millet and actually leaving ruts in the fields. It seems the clods are right where the tractor tracks would have been.


 I don't have a chisel plow or ever used one before but a friend has offered to let me borrow his 7 shank chisel and I'm going to pick it up in the morning.

I have never seen a double offset disc like that....the one I have is a regular offset disc. It is a very heavy piece with 26 inch discs....I have to use the depth control stop to keep it from going so deep that I can't pull it. It is a 9 foot cut and is all my IH 986 wants.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Amco still makes the F-17. It's had at least one set of discs replaced. The fronts are notched and the rears are plain, I believe they're 22". It's 10'6" wide and is pretty heavy. I remember my late FIL telling me that when he bought it that biggest tractor he had was the IH 686 which I think is a 67HP tractor, it wouldn't pull it. So he had the IH dealer put an M&W turbo put on it and that boosted it to 106hp on the PTO, it's been dynoed twice. The 5140 has no problem handling but it knows it's back there. We actually got a video of the field cultivator with Danish tines, spike bar and crumbler basket today I'll try to get it uploaded tomorrow. I have a video of the CaseIH 14' 475 finish disc I'll upload too. The disc on it need to be replaced, the fronts looks like they're down to about 16-17", that's going to cost some money, it has a bunch of discs on it. Son has about half the Oats in and all the Barley is sowed. Amco claims the seedbed is ready for planting after the F-17, not in the soil we have around here, no way, maybe in sandy soil. It's from Yazoo City, Mississippi, the city Jerry Clower talked about so much so it has to be good ;-)

Amco F-17

http://www.amcomfg.com/products/Dharrows/f17b/AMCO-F17B%20DISK%20HARROW%20FLYER.pdf


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## ABOE7090 (Oct 4, 2013)

you can use a big long piece of channel iron for a drag .


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I like the ideas of channel iron, chain link fence and telephone poles as a drag. There's an old pull-type 2 section drag here that's adjustable with nice round spikes but if there's much crop or grass residue on a field it will build up and build up and then release it and you have a big pile of grass/debris in the middle of your field and what a mess that is. I don't think you would get that with options that have been mentioned here for a drag. The only thing is you better not put yourself into a corner because you can't backup with a drag that isn't 3 point mounted or not on wheels.

FC did you do more checking into a Cultimulcher ?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> FC did you do more checking into a Cultimulcher ?


 I did get to talk to brillion in depth at the Sunbelt Ag Expo about cultimulchers. From what they told me I'm going to have to invest in one....they said it would put the finishing touch on the fields after discing and leave a ideal planting bed, if needed the shanks can be locked up to help get a firm seedbed for good seed to soil contact, they also said there was a land leveling kit that is mounted in front of the first set of packer wheels and is supposed to move the soil evenly across the width of the machine as long as the ground is worked soft before. They said it would not be good as a grader to level but that it would do a pretty good job and another plus is that it is supposed to press any small rocks into in ground.

I did manage to find one in rough shape this year in a hedge row that I could use for packing only.....it has no land leveler or even shanks but I guess it will get the packing done.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I did get to talk to brillion in depth at the Sunbelt Ag Expo about cultimulchers. From what they told me I'm going to have to invest in one....they said it would put the finishing touch on the fields after discing and leave a ideal planting bed, if needed the shanks can be locked up to help get a firm seedbed for good seed to soil contact, they also said there was a land leveling kit that is mounted in front of the first set of packer wheels and is supposed to move the soil evenly across the width of the machine as long as the ground is worked soft before. They said it would not be good as a grader to level but that it would do a pretty good job and another plus is that it is supposed to press any small rocks into in ground.
> 
> I did manage to find one in rough shape this year in a hedge row that I could use for packing only.....it has no land leveler or even shanks but I guess it will get the packing done.


FC- I bought my cultimulcher -a Brillion 12 footer on wheels for about 2200 and put probably 200 more in it for replacement shovels one or two springs plus buying a cylinder and hoses. Works great-I love it. you can get them with hydraulic lifts on the teeth but usually I set it for a pass over a field and leave it. I see them for sale in the 2000-2400 range regularly. Also the JD950 is a good unit. Helps to roll in seed after drilling no till.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

We never even saw the Brillion folks at the show, that show is so big. My wife is talking about going back next year. Sounds like what is needed here especially for the pressing in rocks part. My brother in law saw a regular 12' Cultipacker go for $800 at an auction 2 weeks ago. He should have bought it for us. He picks up small ones and flips them on Craigslist. This sure would have been a good year to have one, I've never seen the soil so cloddy. My wife picked up one clod it was so big, she thought it was a rock at first, the thing must have weighed 15-20 lbs. She said it was sticking up like a rock so she didn't want to leave it behind.

How's the tillage going so far, it's getting really dry in a hurry here.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> FC- I bought my cultimulcher -a Brillion 12 footer on wheels for about 2200 and put probably 200 more in it for replacement shovels one or two springs plus buying a cylinder and hoses. Works great-I love it. you can get them with hydraulic lifts on the teeth but usually I set it for a pass over a field and leave it. I see them for sale in the 2000-2400 range regularly. Also the JD950 is a good unit. Helps to roll in seed after drilling no till.


 I wish I could find a good one for that price....every one I have seen for sale is $5000 and needs a lot of work....that is too high in my book. Another thing is they are far and few between around here.....I have only seen one for sale within an hours drive.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> We never even saw the Brillion folks at the show, that show is so big. My wife is talking about going back next year. Sounds like what is needed here especially for the pressing in rocks part. My brother in law saw a regular 12' Cultipacker go for $800 at an auction 2 weeks ago. He should have bought it for us. He picks up small ones and flips them on Craigslist. This sure would have been a good year to have one, I've never seen the soil so cloddy. My wife picked up one clod it was so big, she thought it was a rock at first, the thing must have weighed 15-20 lbs. She said it was sticking up like a rock so she didn't want to leave it behind.
> How's the tillage going so far, it's getting really dry in a hurry here.


 I pulled the chisel plow yesterday on a piece of ground that was in pretty good shape and it did a much better job of loosening up the soil than I thought it would....my finishing disc will sink up to its axle. I have not tried it on the real rough ground yet....I am concerned that it might not help me level too much from what I saw yesterday.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I wish I could find a good one for that price....every one I have seen for sale is $5000 and needs a lot of work....that is too high in my book. Another thing is they are far and few between around here.....I have only seen one for sale within an hours drive.


Hartman in harrisonburg va off I81 has a JD970 for about 6 that looks in nice shape-That is a newer model than the 950 and costs more,yada yada. I got mine at Stitzels in Hamburg PA. They have more stuff on the ground there than I have ever seen anywhere else, even in pictures. they probably had 6 or 7 to pick from when I got mine about 3 years ago.

Maybe when JD gets cold this winter he will bring you one from there when he comes down south to thaw out


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

One other place to try is Wengers-they are not always cheap but they have a lot of stuff. Right now they have a Dunham 12 footer for under 2 that looks like it would work fine for me. they are east of Harrisburg Pa. stitzels, hartman and wengers all have websites so you can take a look on there.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-Reserve-Brillion-8-Foot-Cultimulcher-Cultipacker-No-Reserve-/281192652518?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment_Attachments&hash=item4178635ee6

Not much time left on this, doubt it stays this affordable. Wish I was closer. Only 8 feet wide but would be fine for rolling land and transporting.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

That's the problem all the cultimulchers I find for sale are some distance away from me and I absolutely will not buy anything without seeing it in person....I learned that the hard way. It just gets expensive and time consuming driving to look at something out of state far enough to have to stay overnight and then go back with the truck and trailer to get it. Besides that I don't care for going north in the winter.

I wonder why it seems like there are not as many cultimulchers or brillion seeders used here in the south? I have asked a lot of farmers in surrounding counties that have more agriculture land than in my town if they knew of anyone that had one that may would rent it and most of them didn't even know what I was talking about.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-Reserve-Brillion-8-Foot-Cultimulcher-Cultipacker-No-Reserve-/281192652518?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment_Attachments&hash=item4178635ee6
> 
> Not much time left on this, doubt it stays this affordable. Wish I was closer. Only 8 feet wide but would be fine for rolling land and transporting.


I have a 9 foot Brillion culti-packer. It has the pointed packing wheels like the culti-mulcher in the ebay listing. It is great for breaking clods, but not so great for packing seed. It does OK for seed, but the notched ductile wheels that Brillion puts on most of their packers today are MUCH better for firming ground and packing seed. I recommend not to buy this older style pointed wheel, but wait until you can get the notched ductile wheels. The pointed wheels do not firm the ground near as well as the flat notched ductile wheels either.

Regards, Mike


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

May be a bit late, but we always used our offset for tearing up old sod. We found that to make a really good seedbed, our chiseled ground needed to go thru a freeze/thaw cycle (heavy clay loam). Your soil type will affect this more than anything.

If you have enough hp on it, an offset will rip right to the hub on first pass. We used a JD 4960 on a 16' JD offset, and it would cut as deep as we wanted to set it.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I wonder why it seems like there are not as many cultimulchers or brillion seeders used here in the south? I have asked a lot of farmers in surrounding counties that have more agriculture land than in my town if they knew of anyone that had one that may would rent it and most of them didn't even know what I was talking about.


I had never heard of a cultimulcher until joining this forum. I wonder if they go by a different common name here in the south?

Cultipackers are common.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> I had never heard of a cultimulcher until joining this forum. I wonder if they go by a different common name here in the south?
> Cultipackers are common.


 I have heard them called a roller harrow by a few people.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I have heard them called a roller harrow by a few people.


There you go!

I have heard that before.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I used the chisel plow on the rough ground today and I was pleased the way it broke up the ground except for pulling up some boulders. I must have hooked a big one underground though as I broke two shovels off. Wanting to finish I decided to go hook to the offset disc....I was not pleased with the way it did....it just cut and threw strips of the heavy sod and did not turn it under. I think part of the problem was I could not pull it deep enough to turn the sod under....left a real mess on top of the ground.

I did notice the chisel did not do much to level the field so what I'm thinking is after I finish chisel plowing to run the offset disc to help level and since the ground is loose I think I can pull it deep enough to turn under the remaining sod and then run the finishing disc to prepare a seed bed.

I ended up buying a treated 6x6 to pull as a drag behind the finishing disc. I did not have anything on hand to use so I hope it works out okay.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Did you run the off set disk over where you chiseled? Just wondering how that would do?

I do not have an off set so I used a main tillage disk over what I had chiseled. It did a good job turning everything under.

I had to quick rig another drag. My usual one has been borrowed and not returned. Found an 11 foot railroad tie. Ran some eye bolts salvaged from utility poles and ran them through the railroad tie. Worked pretty well. Still not what my longer drag did. Then I cultipacked. it looks nice. Drilled some seed today.

As long as we keep plugging away, we will eventually get there.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> I had never heard of a cultimulcher until joining this forum. I wonder if they go by a different common name here in the south?
> 
> Cultipackers are common.


Brillion used to call their units by Culti-packers and Culti-mulchers. The culti-packers were units with packing wheels only. The culti-mulchers were two sets of packing wheels spaced apart with 2 rows of c-shanks in between the packing wheels. Basically a much larger unit that requires alot more horse power if you are pulling it with the shanks down.

Today, Brillion calls culti-packers by the name Pulverizers.....and calls culti-mulchers by the name Pulvi-mulcher.

You can check out Brillion here....they are now a Kansas owned company called Landoll, which makes other farm machinery and Trucking equipment.

http://brillionfarmeq.com/content/

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> Did you run the off set disk over where you chiseled? Just wondering how that would do?
> I do not have an off set so I used a main tillage disk over what I had chiseled. It did a good job turning everything under.
> 
> I had to quick rig another drag. My usual one has been borrowed and not returned. Found an 11 foot railroad tie. Ran some eye bolts salvaged from utility poles and ran them through the railroad tie. Worked pretty well. Still not what my longer drag did. Then I cultipacked. it looks nice. Drilled some seed today.
> ...


 I did run a couple passes with the offset disc where I had already chiseled and it seemed to do alright. The ground was loose enough that it would go in deep and do a better job of turning the sod under....I had to adjust the depth control stop to keep it from going too deep. The offset seemed to knock down some of the high spots also.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

Every company has a different name for their respective roller packers. Brillion is the most durable brand for my money. Older Internationals and John Deeres like to breake high priced axles. Keewanes are hard to get bearings for as they are no longer made. Newer cih and JD packers are good. Brillions flat faced rollers with center line nobs are great. Mel


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

FC the next time they're replacing power poles in the area stop and see if they'll bring you a load, they come in handy. Believe it or not my son had to sign a release form for a load last year when they dropped them off. Seems someone got a bad infection from a creosote splinter. When you get a creosote splinter most people know to get it out fast.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I finished chisel plowing today and ran one pass with the offset disc and three passes with the finishing disc. I have got the field considerably smoother than what it was but it is still not as good as what I would like it. I ran the cultimulcher over it which is essentially a double roller as it has no shanks. It did an alright job of packing but I could still see where the tractor tires were. It does have the older style of packer wheels rather than the notched wheels.

I have found a small 5 foot brillion seeder that I'm borrowing....I will be interested to see how good of a stand I get


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yeah, my Brillion 9 foot culti-packer has the double set of wheels. I placed a 14" diameter utility pole(200#+) on the top square frame of the culti-packer and secured it with a ratchet strap to help with packing down firm. I took my chain saw and notched the center of the pole out to sit over the tongue frame. I take it off when rolling down seed. A I-beam would work well too if you cut out in the center to sit over the tongue frame.....maybe secured it with a bolt in the middle and put a couple of hooks on the ends to use to lift it off when needed.

I used a small Brillion seeder one time and it worked well.....just very slow but if your not sowing alot of acreage its not a big deal....you can run about 5mph....if the ground is not too rough. Keep a eye on the end seed compartments as they seem to run out before the other compartments on the small seeders.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> I used a small Brillion seeder one time and it worked well.....just very slow but if your not sowing alot of acreage its not a big deal....you can run about 5mph....if the ground is not too rough. Keep a eye on the end seed compartments as they seem to run out before the other compartments on the small seeders.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Not to be my mother in law or anything, but if the ground might be too rough to run 5 mph while seeding, it isn't ready to plant yet. It's only going to get rougher as time goes by. Like ours to resemble a sheet of glass before planting. I also never like to be limited on ground speed later because of rough ground.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Not to be my mother in law or anything, but if the ground might be too rough to run 5 mph while seeding, it isn't ready to plant yet. It's only going to get rougher as time goes by. Like ours to resemble a sheet of glass before planting. I also never like to be limited on ground speed later because of rough ground.


Brillion recommends operating speeds on their sure stand seeders at between 3 to 6 mph. The little five foot seeders are much lighter than the ten and twelve foot seeders so it does not take very much of a bump to cause them to bounce a little and skip seeding. I have first hand experience with this occurring.....and the field was fairly smooth.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> Brillion recommends operating speeds on their sure stand seeders at between 3 to 6 mph. The little five foot seeders are much lighter than the ten and twelve foot seeders so it does not take very much of a bump to cause them to bounce a little and skip seeding. I have first hand experience with this occurring.....and the field was fairly smooth.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Ahh, the way it originally read I wasn't thinking of the seeder being too light, was thinking along the lines of shaking fillings out at 5mph from being too rough. My bad.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I think one problem you may run into running a Cultimulcher with tines will be if there's a lot sod, crop or weed residue left on the field it's going pile up in the Cultimulcher tines just like it does here with the cultivator with 21 Danish tines on it. If my son slashes a field down low with the bush hog before going in with the bog harrow everything is fine but if they go in with 8-12" stubble or regrowth it will build up and build and release in the field and then you have a big mess and it'll drag up top soil with it. They ended up running the 14' disc through 3 fields this week because they waited too long after baling the soybeans and millet and there was a lot of regrowth of mainly crab grass on those fields. Most of the fields were nearly perfectly clean right after the bog harrow was run through even without bush hogging but there always seems to be a few fields that are a pain.

Here's those videos I said I would upload, there's reg. versions and HD versions available.

My wife on the IH 686 pulling the 14' CaseIH 475 disc, what a woman, she can handle anything on wheels. Not the best video I ever shot but...






The 5140 pulling the cultivator with tooth bars and crumbler basket, kinda weird it appears the camera made the roller look like it's not turning ;-)


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I tried to cultipack a second time this morning to see if I could get the ground packed to level with the tire tracks and I could not....the field is quite rough now due to tire tracks being packed down an inch or more than the rest of the ground. The cultipacker had a railroad timber on it for weight. Should I be concerned about this or will the rest of the ground settle down even after a couple of rains? What is worries me is the seeder might not cover the seed good where the tire tracks are.

I have thought about pulling my 6x6 pole just behind the tractor to maybe fill in the tracks before seeding....would this be a good idea or not? I have to get this ground planted tomorrow as rain is moving in on Friday.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> I tried to cultipack a second time this morning to see if I could get the ground packed to level with the tire tracks and I could not....the field is quite rough now due to tire tracks being packed down an inch or more than the rest of the ground. The cultipacker had a railroad timber on it for weight. Should I be concerned about this or will the rest of the ground settle down even after a couple of rains? What is worries me is the seeder might not cover the seed good where the tire tracks are.
> 
> I have thought about pulling my 6x6 pole just behind the tractor to maybe fill in the tracks before seeding....would this be a good idea or not? I have to get this ground planted tomorrow as rain is moving in on Friday.


Don't get in a hurry, you have one chance to get it right, if not now then you'll have another chance in the spring. Doing it half-a** now might be something that you pay for a long time.

One of the highest yielding hay fields I've ever had I wanted to get done in the spring of 2010 before I had to leave for a wedding I promised to attend oversea's. Miserable wet spring, had to leave and didn't get it planted. I did however have the rest of the summer to pick rocks, trim back a few trees and take the latest flush of weeds out to help deplete the weed seed bank.

Got it planted in the fall of 2010, I still have people stop along side the road I don't even know and ask what I did as it's one of the nicest/thickest/lushest/etc fields they have ever seen. Landlords are happy enough they said once the 7 year lease is up they'll give me an indefinite lease if I want it as in sign with a start date and no end date.

Long story short, sometimes getting in a hurry accomplishes nothing but cutting your own throat.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Don't get in a hurry, you have one chance to get it right, if not now then you'll have another chance in the spring. Doing it half-a** now might be something that you pay for a long time.
> One of the highest yielding hay fields I've ever had I wanted to get done in the spring of 2010 before I had to leave for a wedding I promised to attend oversea's. Miserable wet spring, had to leave and didn't get it planted. I did however have the rest of the summer to pick rocks, trim back a few trees and take the latest flush of weeds out to help deplete the weed seed bank.
> Got it planted in the fall of 2010, I still have people stop along side the road I don't even know and ask what I did as it's one of the nicest/thickest/lushest/etc fields they have ever seen. Landlords are happy enough they said once the 7 year lease is up they'll give me an indefinite lease if I want it as in sign with a start date and no end date.
> Long story short, sometimes getting in a hurry accomplishes nothing but cutting your own throat.


 I Agree that I need to get it done right before sowing a perennial hay and that is why I'm taking so many pains with it....I'm just at a point right now that I don't know what I should do. I have a nice seedbed prepare....no clods, picked the rocks, good soil moisture....I just can't seem to get it packed down where the tracks don't show.

If at all possible I need to get this sowed this fall as timothy is not supposed to work for spring seedings here and I am in a jam having to plant hay on places that I had not intended to since I lost over half of my acreage to a development.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> I tried to cultipack a second time this morning to see if I could get the ground packed to level with the tire tracks and I could not....the field is quite rough now due to tire tracks being packed down an inch or more than the rest of the ground. The cultipacker had a railroad timber on it for weight. Should I be concerned about this or will the rest of the ground settle down even after a couple of rains? What is worries me is the seeder might not cover the seed good where the tire tracks are.
> 
> I have thought about pulling my 6x6 pole just behind the tractor to maybe fill in the tracks before seeding....would this be a good idea or not? I have to get this ground planted tomorrow as rain is moving in on Friday.


My guess is that it's going to get a lot worse. You have the issue now with tracks but I would suspect that all of the low spots that appear to be filled will settle much more than the surroundings and they'll be a bigger pain in the long run. Can't agree more with mlappin, you aren't going to get another chance to get it right if you plant it now.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> I tried to cultipack a second time this morning to see if I could get the ground packed to level with the tire tracks and I could not....the field is quite rough now due to tire tracks being packed down an inch or more than the rest of the ground. The cultipacker had a railroad timber on it for weight. Should I be concerned about this or will the rest of the ground settle down even after a couple of rains? What is worries me is the seeder might not cover the seed good where the tire tracks are.
> 
> I have thought about pulling my 6x6 pole just behind the tractor to maybe fill in the tracks before seeding....would this be a good idea or not? I have to get this ground planted tomorrow as rain is moving in on Friday.


Cline, in my river bottom the ground will often "track up" when I am preparing a new seed bed. Sometimes the ground will completely settle in a years time if we get normal rainfalls.....when conditions seem to be drier than normal it has taken 2 years......if its a wet season it will settle in a few short months. I would consider dragging a square timber over the field to see how it does....it may just do the trick. If this is a small field I would not be overly concerned with it being a little rougher than you like as you are not going to be able to operate at high speeds anyway due to the size of the field.....and if this is a field you will be square baling, you are going to be operating at very low speeds anyway. Sometimes we just have to make due and make the best of the situation and move on.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Too bad you aren't a lot closer, we just scrapped a bunch of tines off a wheeled harrow this spring, who knows might have fit your cultimulcher.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Today I drug the 6x6 pole to help level the tracks in the field....it did an okay job, not the best but much better than if I had done nothing....the downside to this is it drug up lots of small rocks, the soil in this field you would think has had gravel mixed with it. I decided that my best bet would be to cultipack it again to push the small rock back into the ground....this worked good except I am worried that I may have packed the soil too much.

I felt that the ground was an acceptable smoothness....still room for improvement but I felt I was close enough to go ahead plant. The brillion seeder seemed to work pretty good....just extremely slow. I seeded 11 acres today.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Well, that 11 acres made for a very long day leveling and seeding with a yard seeder  ......I hope you get more rain out of the system than we did....much more wind than rain. Probably will work out better than you expected.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Well, that 11 acres made for a very long day leveling and seeding with a yard seeder  ......I hope you get more rain out of the system than we did....much more wind than rain. Probably will work out better than you expected.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 I thought I was never going to get done seeding....only have 16 more acres to do. I like the way the brillion works...seems like it would be hard to get small seed too deep unlike a drill....I hope it got it deep enough though as I see some seed on top of the ground. You were spot on about the end seed compartments running out of seed faster than the rest....if I had not know to look for this I would have run the ends out without realizing it. I only got 1/10 inch of rain on my newly seeded field.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

run your cultipacker over it again after seeding and it will all set fine.


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