# patchy thin fields??



## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

Ok, so I dumped 1/2 ton fertilizer 3 14 42 on my
mixed grass hay fields just before the rain this weekend. Probably hadn't seen it in 20+ years. Last year was our second year cutting the fields as we just bought it The property.

Grass on hay fields seems to grow slower and thinner than areas cut with lawnmower. But lawnmower also bags clippings, as well as the thatch.

Do you dethatch grass fields? Would this help thicken the grass on the hay fields?

We do plan to reseed eventually, but is there an thing else I need to do for grass hay besides fertilize For a well established field?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Did you soil test?

If you only put down 3% Nitrogen, you won't be growing much in grass hay.

How large is your hayfield?

I don't know of anyone who de-thatches their hayfield.....I am sure there is someone out there, but I have not met or seen him.

Regards, Mike


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

It takes a week for soil test to be done, and I wanted to get something on the field before it was too late. I have alfalfa scattered around the field, roughly 10%, so the guy at my Co op recommended the 3 14 42 mix. I plan to gather soil a week after first cut to get an idea of where the soil is at.
I don't know that a soil test after fertilizing would be accurate?

But in theory, would a correct ratio of fertilizer help fill in the bare patches or is additional seeding the best option?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

How many acres for the 1/2 ton?

A big factor in growing is Ph. The fertilizer you put down will not effect Ph that much, if at all. I would take several soil samples from scattered areas and mix all of that together and then pull about a cup of soil from that and have it tested. Being in Mi, I'm guessing you will need to lime, the soil test will tell you that. I would not de-thatch. This helps lawn grass maintain a thicker appearance but does not necessarily make the lawn produce more volume. Volume is what you want from hay. It generally takes 60-90 days for P and K to show results, N mush less time. If you don't want to wait for a soil test, then broadcast more N, something like a 45-0-0 Urea. If you don't know the Ph, you are driving blind.


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

Hmm, we have 6 acres. I didn't know it would take that long to show! I'll go ahead and get the soil sample done and see what the pH is.

If I'm understanding you correctly, correcting the pH will profusely affect how well the fertilizer is taken up by the grass...and correcting that is best done sooner rather than later?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Ph effects how minerals are taken up by the plants. For example, there may be plenty of iron in the soil, but if the Ph is high, the plants can't get to it. Imagine you are dying of thirst, and all you have is water in the wrong form - ice or water vapor as humidity in the air, and if you can't drink it you will suffer.

Very low Ph can make aluminum too available and thus can be toxic to plants, and earthworms do poorly in low Ph soils. You need the worms more than you may know. Nitrogen (the first number in your fertilizer formula) can be used by plants at a wide Ph level, but other nutrients vary.

A soil test an tell you if you need boron, copper or zinc for example, and you may need only minute amounts. However, these minute amounts can likely be the limiting factor to plant growth. For example, if you put tons of 3 14 42 on your 6 acres, and the soil has no boron, the plants will grow very poorly. An argument could be made where a lacking nutrient is so critical that one could double production on 6 acres by the addition of $30 worth of an element.

Remember, and practically speaking, when you cut hay, bail it and put it on a truck, you are sending down the road several pounds or ounces of plant nutrients that will not return unless you apply them to the soil.

I use this lab: http://www.stukenholtz.com/ You can send a sample in a zip lock baggie by priority mail and give them your email address and C.C. # and they will email the results in about 24 hours.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

In this photo, you can see the difference 3 pounds per acre of zinc makes in corn. Click on the photo once you open the link. You aren't growing corn, but the principle is the same. http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/communications/publications/agmag/Archive/2006/fall/Correcting+Zinc+Deficiency+in+Corn.htm


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

If the field is really bound up, a soil aerator might help. We used them on pastures in SE Iowa from time to time. A spiked cylinder rolled over the field with the idea to help move water and nutrients into the soil.

Aer-way makes a unit. I have head some guys rave about them, some never saw any difference. As I said, we did it on occasion to did see some benefit. We rented a unit.


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

Without soil samples it's hard to say for sure but I think you'd want more nitrogen than 3-14-42 has to offer. It sounds like the guy at the co-op heard "Alfalfa" and made his recommendation based on that. With only 10% alfalfa and the rest being grass I really wouldn't worry about the alfalfa and concentrate on the grass. Around here when you say your fertilizing a hay feild people automatically assume it's alfalfa because most people don't fertilize grass hay here for some reason. I know I get funny looks from the people at the fertilizer joint when I order fertilizer for grass hay!


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## zandstrafarms (May 1, 2015)

Hugh,

At least the field near the house is not too low ph...the night crawlers are everywhere! Don't know about the back field though. The info about minerals makes perfect sense, and we did grow sweet corn last year, and seemed like maybe tips were purple in the edges. .. I'm going to test all 3 fields and see where they are at.

Thanks for the links, I will look into that testing company. Certainly a good turn around!


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

aawhite said:


> If the field is really bound up, a soil aerator might help. We used them on pastures in SE Iowa from time to time. A spiked cylinder rolled over the field with the idea to help move water and nutrients into the soil.
> 
> Aer-way makes a unit. I have head some guys rave about them, some never saw any difference. As I said, we did it on occasion to did see some benefit. We rented a unit.


I was wondering exactly that - how well core aeration works with hay. Thanks for the info!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

zandstrafarms said:


> Hugh,
> 
> At least the field near the house is not too low ph...the night crawlers are everywhere! Don't know about the back field though. The info about minerals makes perfect sense, and we did grow sweet corn last year, and seemed like maybe tips were purple in the edges. .. I'm going to test all 3 fields and see where they are at.
> 
> Thanks for the links, I will look into that testing company. Certainly a good turn around!


Purple leaf tips on corn is typically a phosphorous deficiency.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

Here is my approach to thinning grass hay stands that I can't work up and replant:

Take third cut in September if possible (don't do this if you have a good stand of Alfalfa and frost is coming). Run the harrows over it to dethatch in the fall, frost seed with clover in April.

If there isn't much clover or alfalfa left I put down in late April (T-sum 200):

50lbs of N per acre

20lbs of P per acre

40lbs of K per acre

Same fertlizer goes on again after first cut. Soil test every three years. Reduce N if good stand of clover catches. Reduce P and K if not needed.


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