# Bale feeder questions



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello fellow cattlemen. Or is it "cow men"??

Anyway, I have some cows and some steer feeding on my hay. They are chomping on it pretty well, but I have no basis to know how well. They seem to walk over to the feeder about 4-6 times per day and chow down. However, when they're done, they walk away and seem to nose around at the ground looking for other forage. The ground is frozen and there's very little to forage. They also hang over the fence, eating dead weeds, even branches outside the fence.
Is this normal or cause for concern.
Also as you'll see in the picture, I'm concerned the feeder is too high for the immature cattle. They struggle to reach the hay. It was sold to me as a cattle hay feeder. 
Also, when I dump a RB in, it must be dumped at an angle or it will sit up too high in feeder. My bales are dense. It looks like they're really working hard to tear off hay. Sometimes I have to go over and "shake up" the bale so it's easier to chomp on.
Is this normal, or a cause for concern with these issues?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Cows by nature are meant to graze, I'm grinding bale age and wrapped stalk bales, adding some glycerin to it and screenings from the grain cleaner and they will still try to find something to graze on.

I can take a practically rotten bale of hay, roll it out for bedding and they will still nose thru it looking for something to graze on.

Might want to make your cow hay a little looser if it's bothering you to much, they don't look like they are starving.

Just love the mud, seems to be no way around it, if finally froze up solid here so now chewed up ground that is rougher than a cob is the latest headache to deal with, I hate seeing cows with sore feet. Wish we'd get a good 6-8 inches of snow, once they walk on it enough makes a smoother path to the waterer and back.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I like good tight bales in the feeder. They gotta chew the hay off which wastes less compared to pulling a whole bunch off and letting a bunch fall on the ground. Cattle have nothing to do all day so if it takes a little longer for them to eat their fill, no big deal...

Do you have mineral salt out for them? I have seen cattle chew on wood if they don't have mineral or salt available. Since you just mentioned them chewing on branches my guess would be they are just bored or something smelled kinda good. Remember, cattle/cows/steers are sort of like teenage boys. They do dumb things, which cant be explained, and usually end of tearing something up....


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Ditto on everything else that has been said. And there is nothing wrong with that feeder. I don't have any like it simply because we feed 90% of our hay by unrolling on the ground to larger groups. But I've always thought those were the best feeders because they minimize waste compared to normal "ring" type feeders. Even with tight bales, cattle will still be able to get plenty in a feeder like that. Sure, might have to work a little harder at it but they sure won't waste as much either.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

The feeder is designed to keep their head in and not pull hay out all over the ground. Cows will always graze even though they like easy feed, they long for nice tender shoots. They will visit the feeder a few times a day, take a chunk go lay down and chew some cud. Those two it will take them awhile to finish that bale. My bales will feed 18 cows a day and will take 18 weaned calves 3 times as long.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree with everything previously posted. From the pics you posted, can definitely tell your animals are in good shape so they're not starving. As was said earlier, cows want to graze, we feed out in a large pasture and even our cattle have the best feed available, when the weather is nice they go out and nose through the snow to pick old frozen grass. Its just what they do. I think your animals are more bored than anything. Salt and mineral might help if they are lacking something.

Cattle sometimes just like to reach through fences to annoy us I think. If you set a bale of the crappiest hay to close to the fence, they'll reach through till they've broken the fence down and devour the whole bale. Put that same bale in a bale feeder for them to eat and they won't touch it.


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

That's a nice feeder, if my cattle didn't have horns I'd own one like it.

Cattle are like any animal, they will search out minerals that they need. Some trees produce natural dewormers, animals know what they need and will seek it out. Dewormers and minerals are a fairly new invention, animals have survived millions of years without our inputs, left to their own devices, they'll find what they need.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm feeding 5 cattle. I didn't get them all in the picture. There's also 2 donkeys. 
I think a bale still lasts about 2 weeks


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

They will eat any green part of a tree they can reach. At least mine do. And until they have nothing green left that smells good, ey are going to keep going after it.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

The cattle look okay to me. Are you feeding straight alfalfa? Cattle usually like something to go with alfalfa even though the ration may be meeting their needs. I have seen many times where a little oat, barley, or grass hay will help there satisfaction with the ration. Like has been said already cattle like to excersize around even if they don't have a need. Mel


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

No I'm feeding them mixed grasses. Probably 50% reeds canary and 50% other grasses. 
No alfalfa whatsoever.


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

Your cattle look in pretty good condition to me. I'd like to have about 500 just like them but it's not in the budget and I don't have the land to support them. I like the looks of your feeder as well. We use the regular rings and I think we waste a lot more than Dad likes to admit. Maybe I can sneak one of those "fancy" rings in since I have a good bit of the money in our cattle. I'd be interested just to see if it saves as much hay as it looks like it does.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The calves look good to me from the pictures. Looks like they may also getting some feed along the way.

I am a big believer in free choice minerals. I was not always sold on that idea and just kept a mineral block out. Cows will eat salt because they like the flavor. They will eat the minerals because they need them.

In the winter I always look for rumen function. If the rumen is working the cows will keep their weight on. Generally if a bovine is chewing their cud then I do not worry. You can also look at a cow and see if the rumen is full. Viewing from behind, the left side will look more full.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Growing pains said:


> Your cattle look in pretty good condition to me. I'd like to have about 500 just like them but it's not in the budget and I don't have the land to support them. I like the looks of your feeder as well. We use the regular rings and I think we waste a lot more than Dad likes to admit. Maybe I can sneak one of those "fancy" rings in since I have a good bit of the money in our cattle. I'd be interested just to see if it saves as much hay as it looks like it does.


It saves an incredible amount of hay. If we were using a ring, I would say we would throw away a full round bale for every 5-6 bales placed in the ring. It was a terrible amount of waste. With the hay saver feeder, I'd say we waste maybe a few small squares per 5-6 bales placed in the ring. We feed about 18 bales per year average. 
If we waste 3 bales per year at a delivered price of $80/bale, we save $240+/year, but then there's the cost to clean up all the slop around the ring each spring. I take a little creative Liberty and say that's worth $150 each year to clean up the 3 tons of the sloppiest smelliest mess you've ever seen to clean up. So I save about $400/yr. Feeder was $1,200, so in my situation, it'll take 3 years to pay off. 
If you have 10 Catt......I mean cows, it will take maybe 1-2 years to pay off.

I can't see feeding from a ring when a feeder like this will start saving you money in a few years and the mess to clean up right away.


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

That's good info to have. We feed close to 200 4x5 bales a year through roughly 30 head. We fluctuate between 20 and 40 depending on how many heifers we have and keep each year. If that style of feeder saves that much it may be worth the extra cost. Our rings are around $175 each and we use 3.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Growing pains said:


> That's good info to have. We feed close to 200 4x5 bales a year through roughly 30 head. We fluctuate between 20 and 40 depending on how many heifers we have and keep each year. If that style of feeder saves that much it may be worth the extra cost. Our rings are around $175 each and we use 3.


You'd start saving money in 1-2 years and reduce your clean up time by 80-90%.
Those bales you don't waste could be sold to other cow-men, cattlemen, steer guys, whatever it's called.


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

I don't know that there's a correct name. We have one guy around the corner that raises the best bovines in the world or at least that's what he claims. And if you say cow, cattle, steer etc he won't hesitate to correct you and tell you that they are bovine and that's the only proper name for them.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I belong to a Cattlemen's association. I grew up wanting to be a cowboy.

The generic reference to cattle is "cows". Drive by a pasture and most people will say, "Look at the cows".

I go feed the cows. If I have a group of steers separated then I go feed the steers, or I go check on the heifers.

Same with horses. We would not drive by a pasture and say look at the geldings or mares or fillies or colts. We refer to them as horses, not as equine.

FYI

I really like that hay feeder.


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

I don't mind a little waste, it all gets screened and composted then sold for $30 per yard or spread on the fields. But the more bay I can save the more I can sell. Just hard to find a feeder that horned Highlands don't destroy.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FYI- we had horned Irish Dexters feeding from it, so horned cattle can feed from it. They learn to tilt their heads into it.

Kinda felt sorry for them having to do it that way.

What some cow men do is cut some of the verticals out with a sawzall and grinder off the sharp edges.

I *think* they might make a version with less uprights for horned steer, cows, cattle, bovines, etc.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Growing pains said:


> I don't know that there's a correct name. We have one guy around the corner that raises the best bovines in the world or at least that's what he claims. And if you say cow, cattle, steer etc he won't hesitate to correct you and tell you that they are bovine and that's the only proper name for them.


Some folks like pickin' gnat sh!t out of pepper...

I'm a CATTLE man and if someone don't like it, OH WELL...

Later! OL J R 

PS. Like the bale feeder but we unroll to feed...


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

JD, how far is it from the outer bottom ring to the bottom of the V which holds the hay... In another words, how far does the animal have to reach for the hay?

Do they tend to eat what they drop between the V and the outer ring? ...or is the hay savings due to something else.

JD, I noticed that it looked like there was a muddy low spot around the feeder... did you have this with the ring-type feeder as well? I hate mud holes in my pasture... my pastures are in a rotation of hay fields and for me (unless there is a considerable amount of waste) it seems easier to use the forks to pick up extra hay on top of the ground vs filling in divots in the ground. We bought a couple of feeders this year ($500 range) that are doing OK, but always looking for better type of feeders to balance loss of hay and having mud holes.

...and better no one call *ME* a cattleman because -*I*- will have no choice but to correct you.

73, Mark


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

glasswrongsize said:


> JD, how far is it from the outer bottom ring to the bottom of the V which holds the hay... In another words, how far does the animal have to reach for the hay?
> 
> Do they tend to eat what they drop between the V and the outer ring? ...or is the hay savings due to something else.
> 
> ...


Mark, I didnt take a tape measure to it, but I'd say 30" to the narrow part of the V and maybe 18" to the middle part.

Problem is, these catt...cow..steer...bov.. whatever... are immature. 1yr + old. The biggest/oldest one does well, then middle size do OK, the little heifer seems to struggle cause she's a bit small, but still manages. The donkeys do well. It seems like they have to crane their necks quite a bit. I do see them lay down and chew cud a lot.

They do manage to eat a fair amount in the bowl, yes. Not all of it and as it spoils, it tends to get left there. They do pick through it some.

The mud spot seems to be their favorite spot in relationship to the feeder from which to eat. Probably has something to do with ease of pulling hay out of the bale from the way the bale is angled, but not sure.

The waste from these feeders is almost unoticeable. I waste more hay dumping the bale into the feere and from blowing winds than the cattle waste.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Another picture of feeder and cow...Catt..bov... whatever....and feeder from tractor.
This is about as much waste as I have seen-mostly crated by me when I loaded the bale.


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

When we use to cow calf we actually kind of had to call all the cattle by their right name. We had the cows and their calves. We kept all our calves so in the next barn was a couple select replacement heifers, feed lot heifers, the steers, and a bull floating around somewhere. So for example if I bedded down all the "cattle" but told my dad I bedded down the cows he would go to the barn expecting to have to bed the steers,and heifers. Or if I said i fed the steers tonight... he would think he should go to the barn and drop round bales in for the cows. Lol. It doesn't matter to me what they're called but sometimes I guess it does matter.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Some of our groups get fed in rings but they get moved with every new bale.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Yall are wrong on the classification. We call them Moo Moo's.









This is becoming like Ranch versus Farm. I call myself a Farm even though all I raise is cattle and hay. There's a hippie place near me that is called a Ranch. 80 acres with jerseys, chickens, and sheep do not constitute a ranch anywhere in America. I have a better chance of calling my self a ranch. I'm 'Farms' because I have 3 places and ranches doesn't have a good ring to it along with a ranch to me is a sprawling spread.

Bovine = Cattle = Cows = Specific reproductive animal (ie. bull, cow, steer, heifer) divided by Age Designations (long/short yearling, calf). If you argue about this, you're a butt.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, but what if you have a heifer and a cow and a couple steer standing at the feeder? If you wanted to name the entire group, wouldn't the group be called "cattle"?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Ok, but what if you have a heifer and a cow and a couple steer standing at the feeder? If you wanted to name the entire group, wouldn't the group be called "cattle"?


They would be cattle.

Most would call them cows.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So that goes back to when I called my little herd "cattle" and I got whupped on by another HT member!! 
Po' lil me!!!! Haha


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Cattle is correct.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> FYI- we had horned Irish Dexters feeding from it, so horned cattle can feed from it. They learn to tilt their heads into it.
> Kinda felt sorry for them having to do it that way.
> What some cow men do is cut some of the verticals out with a sawzall and grinder off the sharp edges.
> I *think* they might make a version with less uprights for horned steer, cows, cattle, bovines, etc.


For tight bales that cause cattle to struggle, I've seen plenty of J&L feeders with either every other inner upright or every other horizontal ring removed. It does make it easier for them without increasing waste. I have to loosen bales with the loader in mine sometimes but I'm usually feeding random auction bales so I've never made up my mind to modify it as I'm never sure what I'll be feeding in it next.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

IIRC your dexters were a bit smaller with small horns?

Would definitely have to do as hi tech said to let highlanders eat. Then they would beat the crap out of it. Atgreene isn't kidding. They are hard on feeders.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Just measured skull in yard. Was a steer @46" spread. Couple cows are wider. Bull is much wider.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> IIRC your dexters were a bit smaller with small horns?
> 
> Would definitely have to do as hi tech said to let highlanders eat. Then they would beat the crap out of it. Atgreene isn't kidding. They are hard on feeders.


Just to be clear, for horned cattle, one would have to eliminate some exterior uprights. To make it easier for tight bales (or weedy bales) one needs to eliminate interior uprights.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> IIRC your dexters were a bit smaller with small horns?
> Would definitely have to do as hi tech said to let highlanders eat. Then they would beat the crap out of it. Atgreene isn't kidding. They are hard on feeders.


Yeah they top out at about 900-1,000lbs.
They are gone now. Just 3 low line angus and 2 new high line angus. 
I think I'm going to cut out some of the inner verticals.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> They would be cattle.
> 
> Most would call them cows.


I call em walking steaks, this is all inclusive.

The wife sometimes names the steers.

T bone
Chuck (as in roast)
etc


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Chuck, t-bone, and rib-eye have already been butchered. The ones feeding now have more personable names.


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