# Starting out in the southwest



## Intrepid Faith (5 mo ago)

Well here it goes. 

I have been lurking around these forums for a while and finally signed up. My wife and I have wanted to build a side business for some time and an opportunity to purchase ~30 acres of land about 25 minutes from our home has come up. The land is currently under lease until January and is in cotton. Our idea is to purchase the land and go in with alfalfa producing small squares for the horse community. NASS indicates it's possible to get up to 8 tons per acre in our area but for my feasibility analysis I am assuming 5 tons of decent quality until we learn the ropes. I should also note I have alot of experience using hay, almost none producing it. My main goal is to build equity in the land and keep my full time job while using weekends/vacation to do the hay business. We do currently own a kubota L4701 with basic landscaping equipment (i.e. brush hog and disc.) Initially, we would purchase a used baler and grapple ($15-20K available for this) while we hire out the planting, spraying and cutting and eventually purchase a drum cutter, accumulator, and rake. My wife is a wiz at finding deals and equipment and is also strong in the marketing department. I know it will be alot of work for no profit (again goal is equity), but it is something we have been contemplating for a long time. 

Is this sane? 

Thanks in advance, I've already learned a ton from the site. 

Regards,


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

The southwest covers a lot of area, but in general is dry. And getting worse if you believe the "experts", but I don't . But how reliable is the water source? You cannot read a western ag paper without a story that the Colorado River is going dry. Even if it is not the cities all want more of what is there.


I cannot help with specifics off your alfalfa production, it gets very site specific. Hay is getting moved farther from the grow site to the feeding all the time. I am on the central California coast, with the ongoing drought I talked to hay brokers last fall. With the price of trucking included Arizona was cheapest alfalfa. But the truckers bring this hay are not looking for bundle. They are looking for for big bales or 3 string 100 pound bales stacked in 60 bale block their big fork lift can set all 60 on the truck at once. Just so you know to the western end of the southwest bundles are not a common thing. I would guess the the eastern end is different.


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## Intrepid Faith (5 mo ago)

Thanks Ray, this is located in Southern New Mexico, so similar issues to what you read about on the Colorado River. The property does have a well in addition to surface rights but I'm not certain of its condition right now.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

Is a drum mower suitable for alfalfa?


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## Hawkins2015 (7 mo ago)

I would also suggest starting your operation on a grass until you get more comfortable. Orchard grass or lespedeza is in our area. Alfalfa requires a little more finesse to not shatter leaves, and requires more "maintenance" with rotations and reseedings.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I would just caution that it will take you even several years just to get 'decent quality,' let alone 5 tons/acre of decent quality . If it were easy to make quality hay, everybody would be doing it yet most actually can't.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Intrepid Faith said:


> Well here it goes.
> 
> I have been lurking around these forums for a while and finally signed up. My wife and I have wanted to build a side business for some time and an opportunity to purchase ~30 acres of land about 25 minutes from our home has come up. The land is currently under lease until January and is in cotton. Our idea is to purchase the land and go in with alfalfa producing small squares for the horse community. NASS indicates it's possible to get up to 8 tons per acre in our area but for my feasibility analysis I am assuming 5 tons of decent quality until we learn the ropes. I should also note I have alot of experience using hay, almost none producing it. My main goal is to build equity in the land and keep my full time job while using weekends/vacation to do the hay business. We do currently own a kubota L4701 with basic landscaping equipment (i.e. brush hog and disc.) Initially, we would purchase a used baler and grapple ($15-20K available for this) while we hire out the planting, spraying and cutting and eventually purchase a drum cutter, accumulator, and rake. My wife is a wiz at finding deals and equipment and is also strong in the marketing department. I know it will be alot of work for no profit (again goal is equity), but it is something we have been contemplating for a long time.
> Is this sane?
> ...


What do you mean by equity?
If you have to hire out to produce bales you'll NEVER be profitable and with the amount of land you have, you'll have to use 2nd hand equipment (nothing wrong with that) that will have to be in *good *condition, so cheaper than new, but not necessarily cheap, but one can get lucky. If you divide the equipment cost vs acreage that will give you an idea and the amount of time for a ROI.
You forgot to add a hay conditioner and a tedder, the last one may not be needed in your area. Your tractor may or may not have enough power to operate a grapple properly depending on the size
of the bundle, in terms of power IMO you are at the limit, it will do the job, but not much left in reserve. Also don't forget to compare your competition, what they charge what equipment they have as you may have to adjust your prices accordingly. For home use I'd say go ahead you'll have fun, but IF you're thinking in terms of sales as Hayjosh said it won't be easy at all.


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## Intrepid Faith (5 mo ago)

By equity I mostly mean being able to cover the cost of the land and equipment, since I will still have a dayjob profit is not a big motivator, we just want to build ownership in something for "down the road". I am going to have to have someone custom cut, but I hope to do everything else myself. Most folks in this part of the country don't own a tedder, its a very arid environment. I agree about the grapple and maxing out my tractor, but its hard to see any alternatives for a 1 man operation without breaking the bank right now.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Intrepid Faith said:


> By equity I mostly mean being able to cover the cost of the land and equipment, since I will still have a dayjob profit is not a big motivator, we just want to build ownership in something for "down the road". I am going to have to have someone custom cut, but I hope to do everything else myself. Most folks in this part of the country don't own a tedder, its a very arid environment. I agree about the grapple and maxing out my tractor, but its hard to see any alternatives for a 1 man operation without breaking the bank right now.


There are so many factors involved:
1) Level of land fertility.......Cost & time to bring it up if lacking.
2) Seed & Fertilizer cost
3) Time.... You think that you'll be able to do it when on holiday, but weather may not be in your favour when you are on holidays
4) Cost of land, equipment & repairs IMO will not make viable financially for that many acres.
5) What's you competition offering?
As Hayjosh already said, if it were that easy......
Having said that I think that if you view it as hobby without considering the financial side, you'll have a ball and a lot of satisfaction.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

The distance from your house is the main drawback I see. Are you going to have your farm there or at the house, meaning where is all the equipment kept? If it's there, then you'll want your shop there because you WILL be making repairs. It would not be very fun to have to drag hay equipment 30 miles for 30 acres.


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## Intrepid Faith (5 mo ago)

I agree, with both of you. The distance is not ideal and there is not a shop currently on the property, I figure that is a must to be able to store hay/equipment but probably something that I will have to build into down the road. A local farmer I talked to said every available free moment I ever thought I had would be gone, but its a very satisfying deal as Trillium said. On paper, it pencils out but as with all things agriculture.... nothing goes as planned.


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Not being a Debbie downer.....the thought of mowing 30 acres with a drum mower and trying to put up hay with no on-site facilities and storage on the schedule good alfalfa requires using wkends..holidays and vacation ....just doesn't compute....gotta figure in time for sales and dealing with customers too....you would be busy even if you were retired on-site.......but I have seen it tried before and some do suceed


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## Intrepid Faith (5 mo ago)

Fair point Tazz, we are really trying to be realistic about this and if it doesn't work then at least we have the benefit of saying we tried. We may not even last a year but the way land prices keep increasing in this part of the country it seems like we are in a now or never type of situation. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated and if the owners accept our offer I will probably be back asking for equipment advice.


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## Charles Prestridge (6 mo ago)

Land availabilty and prices have been going up for almost the past 100 years (post 1929 depression). 
There have always been peaks and valleys. Fear of missing out, is usually not the best guide for making your decision. 
Look at option of hiring yourself out for a few years to learn more about what it takes in your area.
The land you are looking at, may be a good value. It needs to be a value, without the FOMO.


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Intrepid Faith said:


> Fair point Tazz, we are really trying to be realistic about this and if it doesn't work then at least we have the benefit of saying we tried. We may not even last a year but the way land prices keep increasing in this part of the country it seems like we are in a now or never type of situation. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated and if the owners accept our offer I will probably be back asking for equipment advice.


Just me but I would probably look at some form of lease to a farmer to put in the crop and harvest on shares what you eventually want to harvest yourself....... and work on what your going to do with your hay once it hits the ground and then work into the actual production process...having developed a market for your product....before getting a lot of hard costs tied up in equipment


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