# Say What!!??!!!?!!!! We're now exporting oil?



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Just read an article that the US is now exporting the equivalent of 380,000 barrels of oil a day!!!

And we're to blame!

"The boom in exports also stems from weaker gasoline demand in the U.S., owing to a still-sputtering economy and increasingly fuel efficient cars.

Weak demand might not be evident at the pump, where gasoline prices for this time of year are at record levels -- due to higher crude oil prices. But U.S. drivers are consuming less of the fuel than they have in years. In the first week of the new year, gasoline demand totaled 8.18 million barrels a day, the lowest level since February 2003, according to the Energy Department."

Read more: Diesel thirst fueling exports, pressuring prices

This is wrong, all wrong! I just paid $3.15 for farm diesel two weeks ago and thought I got the deal of the year! Now, I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Ralph


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

It just makes no sense, But they have been doing that to us in Canada for years. I'm not sure why the fuel prices take such a huge jump when ever there is trouble in the middle-east since we are exporters of oil. So why do we get screwed at the pumps when Osama decides to threaten the western world again.
I will tell you why this happens, they can set the price and you will pay it, you can bitch and chew but in the end there is nothing you can do to change it.
It seems to be the only way to make big money, take advantage of someone else who is not in a position that they can afford to refuse.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Thats a direct hit with a large hammer on the head Toyes Hill Angus ! Right on the mark !


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

rjmoses said:


> This is wrong, all wrong! I just paid $3.15 for farm diesel two weeks ago and thought I got the deal of the year! Now, I don't know whether to laugh or cry!
> 
> Ralph


Ya better laugh. I paid $3.38 five days ago. Out of three places I check prices before I buy, this was lowest by 12 cents.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

A number of years ago the environmentalists were pushing the ultra low sulpher diesel that we are now blessed with. To make it, the refineries had to install fairly expensive sulpher recovery units. The government allowed them to kick up the price of diesel to recover the capital investment over a shorter than normal period. That's why the price of diesel (that can be made in a cheap topping unit), which used to be cheaper than gasoline (takes many more steps/energy to make), suddenly became more expensive. In North America, most of the diesel is used by trucking companies (companies don't vote) and they can just pass the increased cost to the consumer with a "fuel surcharge". The consumers then blame the greedy trucking and oil companies instead of the government and the tree huggers.

In Europe, many of the cars are diesel (get 40-50 mpg and are great to drive) and the price of diesel (and gasoline) carries a 60-70% tax that the governments rely on. Our Gulf Coast refineries have much more diesel capacity than what we use in the US and, as a result, much gets exported to Europe where the demand is higher, it sells for more, and it funds a significant amount of their bureaucracy.

Most crude is sold in international markets. When someone farts in the Middle East (or anywhere else that has oil) the traders immediately start buying more in anticipation of a shortage. This drives the price of the crude up. The refineries know what the crude will cost them for those near-future deliveries and jack up the price of diesel/gas to protect their margins. This is passed on to the retailer who jacks up the price at the pump.

The days of cheap fuel are long gone. Years ago we could punch a hole in the ground (or seabed), get oil and complain if it cost more than $300K, lately I've seen deepwater wells in the Gulf that cost over $150MM. The subsalt wells in the Gulf are using technology that didn't exist 2-3 years ago and we are getting oil from more frontier areas. It's a lot more expensive to get oil out of the ground. Twenty years ago a "mega project" was one that cost more than $100MM, today projects costing $10B are fairly common.

Gas is a bright spot, unfortunately to get the tight gas they have to frac the well. There is a risk of deep and ground water contamination because of old existing wells and unknown geological hazards. This is being overblown by the media and the tree huggers who are being funded by external organizations who do not want to see changes in the current oil/gas global power structures along with the current administration who's backers have all invested in "green companies". If we didn't have to pay for it, it would make a pretty interesting soap opera.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> In Europe, many of the cars are diesel (get 40-50 mpg and are great to drive) and the price of diesel (and gasoline) carries a 60-70% tax that the governments rely on. Our Gulf Coast refineries have much more diesel capacity than what we use in the US and, as a result, much gets exported to Europe where the demand is higher, it sells for more, and it funds a significant amount of their bureaucracy.


Yes they are, Tammy's cousin has an Audi A4 that is a rocket and even cruising down the highway between 75-80 mph gets in the low 40;s for mileage, if driven properly to maximize fuel economy he claims to get around 53 mpg. But...I figured what they were paying in pounds for a liter of fuel there is equivalent to us paying $8.98 a gallon here. So even getting 53 mpg it still costs more to drive there than it does to drive the wife's Jeep Liberty here that averages 18-23 mpg.

The first time I was there for a wedding in the spring of 2010 I rode in that Audi four days and didn't even know it was a diesel. The fourth morning it was quite cold and we climbed in, Kevin hit the key and it didn't start right away, he turned the key off then back on and that's when I seen the glow plug light come on.

Now for the real kicker, the wife did want to find something similar to Kevin's A4 before she bought her Liberty. Something can be bought here almost identical to her cousins _but_ you can't get the same engine here. At first I thought they wouldn't pass our emission tests, but I have a guy that runs a local KOA campground that buys one round bale in the spring and one in the fall to feed the critters he has in the campgrounds petting zoo. He was a certified auto tech in Sweden before moving here with his wife for the greater job opportunities that we have. He claims European emission standards started out the same as California emission standards but are even stricter. So basically it's protectionism that won't allow a engine in this country that gets twice the mileage and runs cleaner than anything we have. Imagine the shape the big three would be in if Audi could sell a car here that would runs circles around most anything we have while getting twice the mileage?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

mlappin said:


> So basically it's protectionism that won't allow a engine in this country that gets twice the mileage and runs cleaner than anything we have. Imagine the shape the big three would be in if Audi could sell a car here that would runs circles around most anything we have while getting twice the mileage?


I don't believe that's entirely the case. Last time I was in the UK I rented a Ford that had the same responsiveness and economy as anything else. I've also rented a Fiat (Megane) that was pretty ugly but a lot of fun to drive in the twisting back roads of Scotland. That's two of the Big 3....GM's in Europe are all Opel, pretty good cars before GM got a hold of them. Unfortunately, GM in their brilliance, really screwed up the US market in the early '80's with their diesel powered Oldsmobiles. First of all the engines were basically junk and very unreliable. The other problem was if you parked it in a garage attached to your house, it would stink up your whole house. After a while, you couldn't give the things away. The other issue was the weather you guys get up North. Truckers are used to preventing gel-ups, soccer moms aren't and there were a lot of problems. Last time I was up in MN and the Dakotas, I really had to search for a place to fill up (mostly at truck stops) and it was compounded by small tank that damn Chevy 2500 has. Most stations would have to add tanks/pumps and I'm afraid the inconvenience of having to search for diesel would be a major turn-off here.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Don't have any problems finding diesel here in Northern Indiana, anti gel is already added. Most people already add Heat to their gas tanks at every fill up if it gets real cold. I think people would get used to it pretty quickly once they realized they only had to fill up half as much.

Audi dealer talked like the motor in Kevin's A4 was not legal for import to the USA.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Mike120 said:


> Last time I was up in MN and the Dakotas, I really had to search for a place to fill up (mostly at truck stops) and it was compounded by small tank that damn Chevy 2500 has. Most stations would have to add tanks/pumps and I'm afraid the inconvenience of having to search for diesel would be a major turn-off here.


Not realy hard to find diesel around here but can be hard to find it the way you want it.Some places just have 1 diesel tank and it may be #2,#2 with additive or blended in the winter.A quite a few local stations in the smaller towns have 2 pumps with #2 & #1 so you can blend it as needed.Seems like the truck stops mostly have #2 only and look at you funny if you ask them if there is a blend or additive in it.

Since they went to ultra low sulfer we now need to add sulfer to the fertilizer because soil is low in sulfer.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

mlappin said:


> Don't have any problems finding diesel here in Northern Indiana, anti gel is already added. Most people already add Heat to their gas tanks at every fill up if it gets real cold. I think people would get used to it pretty quickly once they realized they only had to fill up half as much.
> 
> Audi dealer talked like the motor in Kevin's A4 was not legal for import to the USA.


Yea I was wondering if it would be feasible to buy one there and shipping it here?Wonder why it is illegal?


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## steve IN (Jan 13, 2010)

Free Trade. Also dont the refineries slow down this time of year to do maintainence? If so then the refineries might not need all of the oil. We are already at max capacity thanks to the tree huggers. Also the way I understand it is that all of the oil in Alaska is exported because it is a type of crude that cant be refined in our refineries. I am not well liked because I view fuel as a nescessity and have to have it. Most consumers do not have to use all that they do. Read an article once about Europe that basically the price of gas is high there to keep people from driving just because they can. They also use the money for roads,bridges and to take care of thier people from cradle to grave. For this reason they are now broke. You dont see alot of gas guzzlers over there like we have here.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Just was reading Farm Show and has artical about diesel cars.Ford Focus diesel gets 67 mpg and Chevy Cruze gets 52 in Europe.It says the Chevy Cruze will be available in 2013 here.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

My sister-inlaw inherited a Smart Four-Two. This is the typical Smart car that is seen on the road. It has an 899cc diesel engine and a six speed transmission. Yesterday my brother-inlaw and I took it for a drive (mostly as a joke), we are both over 6' tall and weigh 230lbs, although there was enough room in the passenger compartment (barely), if either of us had a lunch pail the passenger would have to hold it is his lap. 
It is a real peice of entertainment to drive for ten minutes or so, right up until something passes you on the road. It has a small cover under the floor of the trunk, this acesses the engine, which is the size of an 8D battery. Its small size is necessary, in order to change the starter you must remove the engine, replace the starter and the reinstall the engine. The engine oil has to be sucked out of the oil pan because there is no acess to the bottom of the engine, and there is no drain plug on it even if you could get to it. All parts must come through the BMW dealer, and that only adds to the cost.
It has an electric auxilary heater to help the several square miles of glass stay clear of frost- and that will not keep up when it is -28 C (-19F), so that only makes thing worse, you have to roll the windows down to see. But the heated deates are awesome! Oh, I almost forgot, even with snow tires it will get stuck in the snow "windrow" that the plow trucks leave.
I hope to never own one, but it was fun, and now I can cross that off of my bucket list. 
Thanks but I'll stick to my Chevy 4X4.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

If you really want to be green. A number of companies are playing with cars powered by an air motor. Wind turbines to drive the compressors, compressors fill the tanks, and the car runs on air.


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