# 15 acres worth it too hay?



## firecatf7333

This year I had a gov't bid and rented a tractor and 15' batwing to mow. The job pays 5-10k net for a week's work, but IDK if I'll always be able to rent a tractor I was lucky this year and rented it just in time, but may be different next year. A 90-110HP is ideal, 4x4 isn't a must, and I could deal with no cab. Thinking of buying a tractor and about 17 acres of land. I want this land to build a house eventually, but wondering how much $$ I can make from 15 acres. I live in central NY, currently, it's corn/beans, was hay but the new farmer pays more rent.

Let's say I spent 10-15k for the tractor. Is Hay the best crop for 15 acres? Plant Corn and find someone to custom harvest?

If so, are round or small bales? I don't like the idea of handling lots of small squares and time-consuming labor.

Some day I want the land anyway to build on, but wondering if it's worth it to buy now if I can make $$ from it.

If I planted hay what could I expect to net from it?

How much net if I planted corn and had it custom harvested?

Any other crop I can plant on this small acreage and make use of a 100 HP tractor?

Thanks


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## Teslan

Does the o on your keyboard not work? That is my first question. If your going to buy the land anyways you might as well hay it. What's the land rent in your area? Do you think you could make more on it selling the hay then just leasing it out for corn/beans. Do you have the time to grow, harvest and sell hay?


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## slowzuki

If you're just getting started, right now the income from rent is likely the most hassle free way to make money off the land. Hay is not a get rich quick, or slow scheme. You really have to enjoy doing it or you will be a bitter person very early on.


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## Willyd3588

What the easiest way to figure profit is, is per acre. As slowzuki stated isn't not real lucrative the first year for sure and is slightly more labor intensive. What we did this year was, figured our input cost for corn and alfalfa grass, compared the two, the hay was going to be about the same, spring seeding with oats as cover crop. Then compare the yearend with some margin of error to protect ourselves. The hay could be sold just about where ever it is needed if you can find someway to ship it. Not such with the corn or beans, usually subject to whatever the local elevator's prices are. It's not until the second and third year the hay will yield more $ per acre than the row crops because you have less imput, sure you can still spent some money on some fertilizer but the hay should already be established and the is not the case with row crops.

Equipment in either direction will be expensive, that is all up to you on what you want to work with, you could get buy pretty cheap buying used equipment.
What I would do is spent some time to see what it is you what to do, figure the $/acre and get used to looking at it that was, you will have better understanding on how you are doing.

100 HP tractor should be able to handle the average hay operation, and some of the row crop work, then have to hire out what you can't do( harvesting, baling) to save to money on equip the first year.

Just my two cents


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## Tim/South

It is difficult for me to suggest hay to anyone with out knowing them. Some go in and stay, others only last a year or two.

We planted our first permanent hay field around 1972. Our best money back then came from having the hay custom baled. The custom guy died and we were forced to buy a baler.

The best money since then has been two different areas of marketing. Marketing the hay is going to make or break any hay farmer.

1) I delivered hay to the upper class horse stables. All we had ever done was small squares until 8 years ago. I got $7.35 per bale delivered, 50 bale minimum. Still had a few head of cattle back then as well. Army worms put me out of business for a year and I changed gears.

2) Present day: Round Bales and feeding my hay to our cattle. (I like my cows more than I like other peoples horses) Sell enough to keep some cash flow, put the rest up and feed it through winter.

Those two things are my best money. I have made some money selling to the public and selling reclamation hay. Did what was needed to make a dollar. There were years I kept making hay just because I was too proud or stubborn to quit, or accept the notion that I was not making any money.

In the last two years I have known two different acquaintances who have decided to make a fortune in hay. Both have lost their shirt.

Neither knew how to make hay or market what they baled. Neither knew what kind of grass they were making into hay, could not answer that question when potential customers asked.

Most of us drive the tractors, make all repairs we can to save a buck and we have a market our product.

I know some people who could make money on 15 acres of hay. I know some who could not.

Some times you just have to look a feller in the eye to understand if he is up to the task. Then you have to sneak a look at his hands to see what kind of miles they have on them.

It can happen if we want it bad enough.


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## firecatf7333

I think R0unds g0 f0r $50-70$ in my area 0r $180 per t0n. If i average 5 t0ns/acre with fertilizer, that'd gr0ss $900/acre. Any estimate 0n fuel, fertilizer, etc c0sts f0r the year 0n 15 acres?

I kn0w squares pay m0re but i think r0unds w0uld be easier/less time. H0w much d0es a 4x4/4x5 r0und usually weigh? I have a skid steer i can l0ad and als0 truck/trailer t0 deliver r0unds. is 100hp en0ugh f0r a r0und baler?


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## Shetland Sheepdog

Well, let me put it this way -- You have got have a love for haying! I do just about 15 acres more or less, and sell my hay at anywhere from $100.00 per ton to $325.00 per ton, depending on what it is and how much handling is involved!
That said, after supplies are purchased (fertilizer, twine, fuel, etc.), and machinery is maintained, there isn't much left! Notice that I did not mention anything about original investment, depreciation, labor, insurance, replacements, etc.
HTH, Dave


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## cwright

firecatf7333 said:


> 100hp en0ugh f0r a r0und baler?


Depends on the baler size and type.

I'm making 4x4 rounds with a 38 hp tractor and it works quite nicely. 50 hp would be enough for most and 100hp would mean a lot of reserve.

CW


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## somedevildawg

I just wanna know about the "o" on the keyboard......does it work? Like others have said, you ain't gonna make a lot, but at least you won't have the problem of finding a tractor for that gravy gov job...


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## firecatf7333

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Well, let me put it this way -- You have got have a love for haying! I do just about 15 acres more or less, and sell my hay at anywhere from $100.00 per ton to $325.00 per ton, depending on what it is and how much handling is involved!
> That said, after supplies are purchased (fertilizer, twine, fuel, etc.), and machinery is maintained, there isn't much left! Notice that I did not mention anything about original investment, depreciation, labor, insurance, replacements, etc.
> HTH, Dave


H0w many t0ns d0 y0u average each year?


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## Shetland Sheepdog

Probably average 3000 (+/-) 40 pound bales, so 60 tons more or less! That would be a total for all cuttings taken. Here are some pictures of my fields.

Dave


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## Tim/South

100 horse power would be enough for any round baler I know of. I think the 604 SM Vermeer recommended 90. That baler has about a 1,400 lb. tongue weight and is heavy compared to most other round balers.

The skid steer is a handy piece of equipment in the hay business.

There are several times I have looked at places that were being bush hogged and thought it would make nice hay.

Would you be expecting 5 tons an acre per year or per cutting? Can you get 3 cuttings per year?

Our 100 HP tractor uses 4.9 gallons per hour under load.

We paid $615 per ton spread to have 17-17-17 put out this year at 300 lbs per acre.

You can make a 4x5 weigh 900 - 1,000 lbs with the newer round balers. Most I know back off to around 750 lbs because the sell by the roll, not weight.

4x4 will normally weigh 500 - 600 lbs depending on the density settings and the baler.


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## firecatf7333

Thanks f0r the replies. Yes the 0 is br0ke 0n my pc s0rry

H0w ab0ut 0rganic hay? any0ne d0 that? I'm als0 thinking ab0ut 0rganic c0rn. I kn0w a l0cal amish that d0es it and he d0es decent. It was selling f0r $15 bushel, n0w i think its at $12. 100 bushels/ acre 0n the l0w end w0uld be $1200/acre, minus seed, fuel, cust0m harvest, seems less lab0r intensive and maybe m0re $.


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## Tim/South

You can save some money on fertilizer with organic hay using manure. The yield will not be what it would be with commercial fertilizer. I want as many tons of hay per field as I can get. I have one summer to get 3 cuttings. It cost the same number trips across a field to get one roll per acre as it does five per acre.


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## firecatf7333

i've been leaning towards 0rganic corn/beans, anyone have advice even if its a hay website mainly. here is what i gathered from my amish neighbors

Talked with Amish and they plow field then disc in chicken shiiiit for fertilizer, then cultivate 1-3 times. One $200 bag of corn covers almost 3-4 acres. They don't plant organic close like conventional. They've been getting at least 100 bushels/acre and have to rotate corn/soybeans every year. Not exactly sure on price but I think $10-$13 bushel elevator price( couple organic elevators where I am)- 3 year wait. Can't pollinate with corn across road

$75 acre seed
$80 acre fertilizer ($40/ton 2 ton acre)
Fuel cost too plow, disc, spread fert, plant, cultivate 2-3 times,????
Custom harvest cost?

Gross should be $1000-$1200/ acre maybe $500-$700 net


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## mlappin

firecatf7333 said:


> i've been leaning towards 0rganic corn/beans, anyone have advice even if its a hay website mainly. here is what i gathered from my amish neighbors
> 
> Talked with Amish and they plow field then disc in chicken shiiiit for fertilizer, then cultivate 1-3 times. One $200 bag of corn covers almost 3-4 acres. They don't plant organic close like conventional. They've been getting at least 100 bushels/acre and have to rotate corn/soybeans every year. Not exactly sure on price but I think $10-$13 bushel elevator price( couple organic elevators where I am)- 3 year wait. Can't pollinate with corn across road
> 
> $75 acre seed
> $80 acre fertilizer ($40/ton 2 ton acre)
> Fuel cost too plow, disc, spread fert, plant, cultivate 2-3 times,????
> Custom harvest cost?
> 
> Gross should be $1000-$1200/ acre maybe $500-$700 net


We had a field go almost 260 b/a last year, was no-tilled so very low fuel cost. Take that 260 b/a x 7.80 a bushel. The rest was between 140 b/a on the droughty soils to 240 b/a.

Another thing, I've talked to guys around here that tried organic for a bit, count on losing a field now and then to bugs or weeds. No body could have cultivated around here this year, corn would be 4 foot tall with 7 foot weeds before you could have ever got on it.


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## firecatf7333

This is 0ne 0f rainest yrs ever here in NY, and their 0rganic corn will be alright/good. mlappin, what do u think ur average net profit/acre is if u figure 200 b/a. How much for

seed/acre?

fertilizer/acre?

weed spay/a?


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## endrow

firecatf7333 said:


> This is 0ne 0f rainest yrs ever here in NY, and their 0rganic corn will be alright/good. mlappin, what do u think ur average net profit/acre is if u figure 200 b/a. How much for
> 
> seed/acre?
> fertilizer/acre?
> weed spay/a?


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## endrow

I was curiousI'm not sureI understand how you handle weed control in organic corn


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## mlappin

firecatf7333 said:


> This is 0ne 0f rainest yrs ever here in NY, and their 0rganic corn will be alright/good. mlappin, what do u think ur average net profit/acre is if u figure 200 b/a. How much for
> 
> seed/acre?
> 
> fertilizer/acre?
> 
> weed spay/a?


$105.10/acre for seed corn

$23/acre for herbicide

$250/acre for fertilizer

5 quarts/acre of diesel

We grossed $1872-$2028 an acre on the best field with an input cost of $378.10/acre plus the 5 quarts of fuel per acre with no rent as we own the land. We don't have a handle on the cost of actual drying charges yet as we installed a continuous flow dryer last fall to replace a very tired batch dryer. I do know we used less natural gas with it than previously and since it dry's corn much faster, electric bill was also lower.

Absolute worst field grossed $819/acre.

Now, not only can you figure on using more fuel per acre, but it takes time to cultivate that corn 2, 3, or 4 times, believe me a lot of time as I used to cultivate our corn once, cultivate the beans, then come back with the Hiniker ridge cultivator and build the ridges when we used to ridge till and we were doing 8 rows back in the day. Made for a real long day to cover 60 acres of beans that were only a few inches tall.


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## mlappin

endrow said:


> I was curiousI'm not sureI understand how you handle weed control in organic corn


Same way as back in the day of horse drawn equipment, cultivate cultivate cultivate.

All that cultivating sure screws up no-till, on our droughty soils worst thing you can do is disturb the soil, looses moisture even faster then.


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## firecatf7333

Can fertilizer and herbicide be done with the same 90-100hp tractor used to plant,disc etc?

Any idea of what a custom harvest cost would run? Do I have to dry corn/beans myself? Can I just truck it right to elevator?

Also I think organic corn has held its high price, while conventional is back at 5 something.

However, it would be easier to rent some local land with conventional, knowing I'd have to wait 3 years to get organic price, then could loose field after 3-5 Yr lease


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## mlappin

firecatf7333 said:


> However, it would be easier to rent some local land with conventional, knowing I'd have to wait 3 years to get organic price, then could loose field after 3-5 Yr lease


Yup, plain and simple fact around here it's getting harder to get anybody to go longer than a two year lease because somebody might come along and offer them more at any time.

Size of tractor all depends on what size plow, disc, planter you plan on getting. We used to spring chisel with a 15' 3 point chisel plow and pulled a 16' spring tooth harrow behind it, a 160 hp tractor would handle it fine. Takes at least 350 hp to pull our 25' chisel plow with a 27' field cultivator behind it.

We used to pull our old 8 row White planter with a 85 hp tractor in worked ground, but takes a minimum of 175hp to pull our 16 row with no till coulters, row cleaners and deep placement no till fertilizer coulters plus enough tanks on it to carry 640 gallons of 10-34-0.

You can truck wet beans/corn to the elevator as long as you don't mind taking it dry where the sun don't shine, and don't mind only being able to haul in if they have room and when they might be open. We can dry for a lot less at home than any of the elevators in our area deduct for drying and shrink.


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## firecatf7333

Mplappin, thanks for all info, just trying to see if its worth planting corn/beans or any other cash crop. I could lease some fields near me, 50-150 acres, which would justify the tractor and implements also.


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