# Fields that have been uncut for years



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have a pasture that has not been hayed in years. It's 24 acres. I currently cut it for the customer and he wants it hayed. 
Embarrassed to admit it, I don't even know what grasses & weeds I'm looking at. To me it looks like mostly grass with some stemmy, leafy weeds. 
Without going through a great deal of trouble, what can I do to get more grass/less weeds? 
Do I hire someone to spray the weeds? 
Can this be done over the winter? 
Obviously need to be careful of what I spray since the hay harvested will be consumed.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I know people in different parts of the country do things differently. I will say what I would do. This is with limited knowledge of just how grown up the field is. Adjustments would be made if the field was better or worse than average.

First, can the field be cut with a hay mower or would it need a brush cutter? Around here we have small saplings take over a field and that would need to be dealt with.
I would clean the field up, get the old growth off and see what I had. I have raked and baled behind a brush cutter. I would rather bale behind a hay mower. It just does a better job.
The junky growth would not be worth much. I would try and sell it as reclamation/erosion hay to recover some of my cost.
Since nutrition of the old growth is not relative, it can be cut while dormant or at the first sign of green up.

Our area always needs lime. A soil test will let you know the health of the soil. Many weeds do not do well in a basic PH. It will take some time for lime or Basic Slag to work its way into the soil.

I usually spray for broad leaf weeds with 2-4-D. I do not have a chemical card and can buy this over the counter. It is a topical weed killer and will only remove a weed if it has emerged.
Some other broad leaf weed killers are residual and will remain active for a few weeks. They are more expensive and usually require a chemical card to purchase.
Make the soil more conducive for growing hay than weeds, then feed (fertilize) the grass and let it help choke out the weeds.

I am not saying this is the common practice for over grown fields in all areas. It is a general idea of what I have done in the past.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a few fields that had not been do for a few years and had gotten realy weedy mostly burdock and milk weed and a little russion olive. We tryed a few different aproches. First we tryed a tractor supply spray in a sprayer on one field it worked ok but only knocked the weeds down not out. We tryed differend levels to no effect. The best thing I could find was to cut it as soon as I could then when it grew back spot spray with round up and cut it as often as possable. The hay would grow faster than the weeds and overtake them. Thats what worked for me here in CT but it might not work else where and might not even work next time here I might have just got lucky. But after 3 cuttings the hay went from looking like straw and having to were gloves to handle it to being some realy nice hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have been cutting this pasture for years. When I first got there, it was a JUNGLE. 9' high and full of milkweed, stemmy looking stuff and stickers. I cut it 3 times a year for the last 2 years and I have to say that it looks better with each cutting. I assume it's for the reason that Will 400m gave-the grass grows faster than the weeds and chokes the weeds out. 
However, there's still some weeds there I'd like to knock out. Spot spraying sounds really time consuming on such a large area.

Can 2-4-D be applied to leafy weeds during the winter months like a spray could? Would like to kill any left over weeds now and maybe get the rest with pre-emergant come spring?


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

Most chemicals are taken into the structure of the plant by the living tisue of the plant itself. So spraying while the plant is dormant will not work. The weeds have to be green and growing. You will get your best kill a week or two after the feild has been cut or fairly early in the spring about the same timing as the row crop guys doing a burndown with glyphosate/round-up


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

Generally I am in agreement but question the chemicals to use. If you wish to kill everything spray it with roundup 5 days befoire you swath it. Should give you and excellent kill and will leave no residue. If you only want to kill broadleaf weeds, then use the 24D. I believe the residue lasts three weeks so spray it at least three weeks befoire swathing. It shouldn't bother your grass at all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

wait....doesn't roundup kill everything?
Definately don't want to hurt grass....just weeds


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

2,4D is effective only on broadleaf weeds, like milkweed, thistles and dandelion, not grass weeds like wild oats, etc. Because it has not been hayed for some time, you will have to deal with the seed bank. It will take several sprayings over 3 or more years to get the seed bank under control. You might consider spraying 2,4D at 2 quarts/acre around April, then again at 1 quart per acre about 2-3 weeks after cutting.

But first, I think I would try to identify exactly what is out there--just because it's green doesn't mean it's going to be good hay.

If it's mostly grasses like fescue or orchard-grass, your best weed control is nitrogen and mowing.

Hope this helps.

Ralph

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes I think that's what it is, but what exactly is orchard grass?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Another thought is to burn it off, if allowable. By doing so, it would expose any dangers in the field or implement damaging items(castoff metals). It also would add valuable nutrients to the ground giving you a very good spring greenup and making the nuisance weeds more obvious and more readily susceptible to broadcast spraying after the plants begin growing.

Regards, Mike


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I've also always figured burning helps eliminate lots of the most recent crop of weed seeds.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Does this look like orchard grass?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hard to say with certainty without a close-up.....but it appears that there may substantial Johnson grass and foxtail...hopefully I am wrong.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I thought that was Johnsongrass mixed in there, too.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

Looks tall and healthy what ever it is. If you want to know for sure you can take a clump that has a little bit of everything in it and send it out to get analyzed and they will tell you exactly what it is.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Does this look like orchard grass?


Orchard grass looks very similar to fescue. However, the seed pods are different. There is a good picture here: Georgia Forages: Grass Species | CAES Publications | UGA


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I thought that looked like good cattle hay. haha. But my cows will eat anything, they aren't picky. I see a lot of foxtail for sure. I cant tell if thats johnson grass or not. It doesnt look tall enough for Johnson grass but I could be wrong. As long as theres nothing that you will hit in that field. I would round bale the heck out of it. Looks like good hay to me for cows, but not for horse per say.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have lready cut the fields down low, so I really dont know what's there. Is there a way to know what's going to be there next season? 
I have contacted the county extension. They are saying they will send someone out to meet me there soon.
Here's some more pictures.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The foreground has a lot of yellow foxtail and maybe some watergrass. The background looks like either johnsongrass or redtop. Real hard to tell.

I have an MX8 mower as well -- pulls real nice behind my JD 4710

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Would like to hay this next spring. Right now it's cut too low to really tell what's in there. What's the best course of action? 
I thought I would spray for broadleaf as soon as the weeds show themselves.
The thing that bothers me is that Johnsongrass is a grass and I'm assuming you can't kill it without killing desireable grasses at the same time?????


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

John grass is a real pain.....but it usually does not show up until after your first cutting of grass if you FERTILIZE in early spring thus giving your cool season grasses a good headstart. There are some herbicides that can be used with varying degrees of success on John grass, but they seem to be very expensive and somewhat iffy on success. Go ahead and spray for broadleafs after you have had a couple of weeks of green up...thus allowing most broadleafs to emerge. 2-4-D ester in early spring works well...at least 2 pints per acre and preferably 3 or 4pts./ac. since this is the first time in awhile for broadleaf cleanup. And be sure and add a surfactant of about 1 quart per 100 gallons of tank mix. 2-4-D is one of the least expensive herbicides and, in early spring, it works well. Good Luck!

Regards, Mike


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

The fact that you have been mowing for awhile means that you have old plant residue that has to be removed. When you rake your hay crop the rake doesn't know the difference between new cuttings and residue from your mowing 3 years ago.

You can either disc it in at the expense of killing your grass, or rake it, bale it and use it for erosion control.....but cows seem to prefer that "stuff" over fresh hay sometimes.....It must ferment and they get drunk off it Ha!

If you plan your discing properly, i.e. spring when there is adequate moisture following, a lot of the grasses will return with vigor.

Foxtail is ok on my place for pasture, but for hay my cows won't touch it. Johnsson is fine baled. Don't know about some of the other cool season (not fescue) grasses...buffalo, orchard, and others. On wild prarie grasses I noticed articles where crab grass is used for forage even though it is a nuisance otherwise. Wire grass (we call it....thin leaves with saw like leaf edges) is tough to cut but cows here like it for pasture. Doesn't lend itself to bailing as it doesn't get very tall here.

My experience with 2-4-D is that you apply it in the spring when you start to see weed growth vigor and the weeds are young and easily killed. Amount is on the container. Since it is a soil interacting weed killer, I find that the second and third year after applying it, I lost some weeds that emerged after the first spraying. Really liked that. After the 3rd year I really had some nice looking pasture with only the one spraying. It doesn't harm thin stemmed grasses. I don't think I had problems with Johnsson being killed.....had to get it with Roundup if you wanted to rid yourself of it. Again, read the label.

A few pointers.

HTH,

Mark


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

There's been some other discussions on Johnson Grass and some of them discussed JG herbicides. Searching some of those other threads might give you more insight.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You gentlemen are a great help. Thanks!
I spkoe with a local guy that sprays fields and is pretty well liked. He said he doubts I have a lot of Johnson grass and didn't even seem to think it was anything to worry about. 
I'd still like to get rid of it, but don't know if my customer is up for a big burn down, discing, etc. .


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have one small Bermuda field I cut that has some Johnson grass.
I think I am going to spray it with Pastora (sp) by DuPont. I read about it in another discussion, got curious and asked around.
I would love to have that field pure Bermuda.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a field up here that I had been bush hogging for the last 10 years or more and the farmer that owned it passed away and I asked his wife if I could cut it for hay, she said it would be fine so I took an early first cutting off of it. The hay looked good and other than the fact that I didn't get a tedder on it and some of it was still a little wet it all looked good. The left over's from the past bush hogging wasn't an issue most of it was broken down into the soil and only a few spots near the tree line where the sun never got to break it down was there a problem.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Will 400m said:


> I have a field up here that I had been bush hogging for the last 10 years or more and the farmer that owned it passed away and I asked his wife if I could cut it for hay, she said it would be fine so I took an early first cutting off of it. The hay looked good and other than the fact that I didn't get a tedder on it and some of it was still a little wet it all looked good. The left over's from the past bush hogging wasn't an issue most of it was broken down into the soil and only a few spots near the tree line where the sun never got to break it down was there a problem.


Were you able to sell it as horse or cattle hay?
What I would like to know is: Will I be able to sell it if it's not real nice stuff?


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Another thought is to burn it off, if allowable. By doing so, it would expose any dangers in the field or implement damaging items(castoff metals). It also would add valuable nutrients to the ground giving you a very good spring greenup and making the nuisance weeds more obvious and more readily susceptible to broadcast spraying after the plants begin growing.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Down here we have heavy clay soils and the ag agent and Ag University strongly recommend returning as much stubble as possible to the soil to help it breathe.

Additionally, the county has a burn ban and what used to be common practice is now banned.

I leased a field a few years ago that was burned off, due to a wildfire. I had no idea as to what the field history was in terms of undesirables. In the second year I had what looked like a beautiful hay crop just to find out, after cutting, baling, and delivering to the customer, that it was Yellow Nutsedge and nothing would eat it. Had never seen it before.

Mark


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

The stuff I got off the field all went to horse hay. There was a few hours to get the last of it off the field befor the rain was to start and my last customer no showed so as I loaded the last bale onto my truck a lady that lives just down the road came and asked what I was going to do with it and sold it to her. She said she feeds about 3k a year and will take what ever I have and has been a great customer ever since. She even takes the bales that get hot and feeds it to her goats and donkey's.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

And there's usualy a markit for mulch or construction hay it might not be as good as regular hay but $3.50 is better than throwing it away.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

Hay quality is all in the eye of the beholder. Meaning everyone has a different opinion on hay quality and what they will buy. I had a gal at a barn I sold to for many yrs come up to me as we were stacking and said that the hay looked old. It was straight out of the field! It was even alittle more green than I would have liked but it was VERY high quality stuff. I would buy just about anything for my cattle that wasn't moldy. That's my main concern because I feed a lot of supplament. So all I'm really concerned about is getting their bellys full.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Great info, thanks!!!!


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