# Surfactants - The Answer



## Mike120

I haven't figured how Hay Wilson changes titles mid-thread so I figured I'd start a new thread to share what I learned.

Typically when I spray, I use a non-ionic surfactant like Top Surf. I never thought much about it. A friend mentioned using a different surfactant to boost the effect of different herbicides and as I had just spent a small fortune buying Grazon P+D I was interested in getting more bang for my buck. The ones he was most impressed with were organosilicone superwetting agents. He liked Sylgard 309:

SYLGARD® 309 SILICONE SURFACTANT The product sheet is a pdf

If you look at the graphs/pictures, you'll see why I was interested. Anyway, I sent my question to Dow AgroSciences (maker of Grazon) and got a call from their regional rep. He said that although the organosilicone surficants do much better, for my application, the cost is greater than the benefit. However, for places like south Texas where they are dealing with things like Mesquite and Huisache with small leaves, the super wetters made a significant difference. There a lot of applications where they make a significant difference but he didn't feel that grass hay was one of them.

At any rate, I got some Phase for about the same price I pay for Top Surf. I'll try it whenever the wind stops long enough for me to spray in the next few weeks. I don't expect that I'll see a great difference, but I've got a new field with some wild rose that's hard to kill so I'll take all the help I can get.


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## mlappin

Mike120 said:


> I haven't figured how Hay Wilson changes titles mid-thread so I figured I'd start a new thread to share what I learned.


After selecting reply, select Go Advanced, you can change the thread title in your post there.


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## hay wilson in TX

I haven't figured how Hay Wilson changes titles mid-thread 
Just below the reply box are three boxes:

Post Quick Reply / Go Advanced / Cancel

Click on the Go Acdvanced will provide a Title box where you can put in your title. You can also change colors and a number of other _Tricks_.


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## HWooldridge

I use Simple Green concentrate which can be bought from any chain or hardware store. It's advertised as non-ionic and the local co-op tells me it's one of the best choices around for surfactant use. Last Saturday, I put out 225 gallons of tank mix with 2 quarts of Simple Green, 2 oz per acre of Grazon and 1 oz per acre of DuPont Pastora to control johnson grass and nightshade (this was on 11 acres of established coastal). The Pastora label said a NIS surfactant is required for proper effectiveness and it looks like the Simple Green worked because I drove around in the field yesterday evening and observed probably 95% kill over the whole pasture. The only areas that were not yellow were spots I missed with the spray pattern.


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## Mike120

Interesting.....the only thing I see that Simple Green has in it which would provide any surfactant properties is 5% of 2‐butoxyethanol. That amount shouldn't do much.....But then, I know guys that just use liquid Ivory soap and swear that it works. I guess that's the problem with surfactants, if you use enough herbicide and get decent coverage, it's going to work. Using Phase, I got excellent results on the wild rose sprouts.....Unfortunately, once I start regular cutting, I probably won't know if it just burned the tops or actually killed them until next spring. That stuff is hard to get rid of. When I have to deal with larger ones, I baptize them with diesel/Remedy, give them a few weeks, anoint them with straight diesel and hit them with a flame thrower. The sprouts will usually be back the next spring!


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## HWooldridge

I've tried Dawn soap and had mixed results but the Simple Green seems to work as proven by the kill rate I get. In fact, I specifically asked the Co-Op for agricultural surfactant and they pointed me to SG as a substitute - so they had the chance to sell their stock product at $22 a gallon and I would have bought it.

I add a bit of Round-Up to my diesel/Remedy tank mix and believe I see less sprouts - although I confess to never having counted the applications followed by a specific location check the next season.


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