# 1069 NH Bale Wagon Cummins Conversion



## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

So i was trolling around the net looking for any info or advice on updating and improving a1069 with a 460 gas engine with a 4 speed bolted up to it and i couldnt find anybody else doing it.
So i did it myself.

We already operate a 1984 1069 perkins diesel with a five speed. stretched frame and load rack to accomadate hauling 10 tiers, 178 bales. we needed something similar but faster.

We grow timothy and alfalfa in central alberta for the japanese and florida export markets.
Our operation produces between 70,000-100,000 small squares a year. Approximately 2500-3000 tons. From the inputs to the production and the trucking of the hay to various double compression plants in our area we're a start to finish business.
My father developed a tandem baler hitch in the mid 90's to pull two small squares behind one tractor so we pull 4 balers with two tractors, run two wagons, operate a fella rake and cut everything with a 9260 hesston four roller discbine all with a crew of five. My father, My wife myself and two hired hands.
After a long while of searching western canada and the north western united states we found what started this long project with a 1979 1069 gas model. purchased it in june of 2012. ran it for the 2012 season to get a feel for it and run out the bugs (it had lots) before we did any modifications.
It was purchased from a great dealership in lethbridge, Vanee Farm Center. theres your plug jon.

We had a few hydraulic hose issues and a couple spools that were leaking from sitting for several years.AC was trimmed back into shape after repairing some hoses, stack evener cable and pulleys were replaced, Two speed axle wiring was burnt off and switch had failed so it was all replaced, few work lights out and a linkage to repair on the tie tier spikes and we were in business.

One last thing and i cannot stress how easy this is to do and how much it will speed up your picking process is, take off your cross conveyor chain on your first table. count how many teeth are on that drive sprocket. go find the biggest sprocket you can find and slap it on. i believe the stock sprocket is a 20 tooth and we put on a 36 tooth. you need to notch out vertical piece of half inch plate above the sprocket as a bigger sprocket then a 26 will contact it, our other wagon with the perkins has a 26 and its better then stock but still nowhere near what the 36 will do.
when your rolling down the field more often then not people dont realize they're waiting for the bale you just put onto the first table to clear across out of the way of the next bale coming. best bang for your buck hands down.

I stacked 45000 bales with it and was fairly happy other then burning twice the fuel of our perkins 1069 and being pig slow when loaded

After finishing up for the year we started looking for ways to look at ways of gaining the speed up on the 1089s our nieghbor runs. Picking in a straight line i can out pick the 1089s on a straight tier and a tie tier. lost all my hard work in time gains to the 1089s running back to the stack or the sheds as some of our fields are several miles away.

our final decision came in the form of a little powerhouse 5.9L cummins with an 5 speed allison automatice bolted up behind it.

Borrowed a shop bay from a nieghbor and away we went.

Started the project off by pulling off the side racks and pulling the rear support assembly for the racks. if you ever do this all by your lonesome, Dont. get a helper and if possible use an over head crane instead of a front end loader of the tractor like use.......

Next off was draining all the fluids. remember to dispose of them in a enviromentally friendly way. Theres the one thing i had to say to keep the greenies happy.

as far as taking things out cleanly we werent to concerned about reusing much of the old components so most of it came out with an acetylene wrench.

We are rewiring the unit front to back so all the wiring was cut and stripped out and old throttle cables and park brake cables for the drivline brake was removed.
fuel tank and radiators were cut off and unbolted.

Next came unbolting motor mounts and picking the motor out, again use an overhead crane if you can. if not around stick a chain hoist onto your front end loader. safety third now.

With the motor out of the frame rails things open up really nicely and everything else comes out really well. Motor mounts and the brackets to bolt them to the C-frame are removed and cut off, push off feet are pulled out (they need to be extended the length of your frame stretch), vacuum booster is removed (more info on the booster to come) and battery box is cut out of frame rail.
The factory system on the gas engines only has room for one battery where with the perkins two are installed from the oem floor.

That brings us to finding an engine. We searched around and did a pile of research till we came across a 5.9L ISB 12V Cummins with the allison out of a 1992 ford school bus. Yes a ford. They could put the motor in a bus but they're pickups just weren't good enough for it? I don't know. Could have had the best truck setup of any of the big three in that era.

Well that's about all the time i have for typing tonight. more to come later.
If anybody feels so inclined let me know how to upload pictures onto here and we'll get you some step by steps on the project as we go.

Aaron.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Interesting read. I will be interested to see the pictures of your stretch 1069. As for the speed of a 1069 vs a 1089 wouldn't they be about the same? Or is it the diesel that is slowing the 1069 down?


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## farmboy9510 (Feb 16, 2009)

This sounds like a good project I would love to see the pics and here the rest of how u did everything. I just bought a 1069 that has the 460 in it i intend to run it this year then possibly put the 5.9 in it that is sitting in my shop.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

@ Teslan- The 1069 will outpick the 1089 hands down with a decent operator behind the wheels of both machines. the problem with the 1089 and the newer wagons is the method they perfrom the right hand bale stack evener. The 89's literally stop the cross conveyor chain and reverse it till it hits a preset adjustable stop which engages the first table to go up. very slow.
We have tinkered with a couple machines and shortened the stroke on the trip cylinder and proximity switch and gained a few milliseconds out of it but it's still not nearly as fast as the cable system stack evener the 1069s use.
The main advantage with the 89s evener is it's virtually maintenance free other then one extra switch that can fail but they don't seem to botch to terribly often.
the perkins diesel and the 460 gas engine in the 1069s are one of they're major downfalls as they just don't have the get up and go that the turbo charged 7.5L Izuzus have in the new wagons. wether it be starting from a stop in the field after fixing a bale mistake or taking off down the road they just have more horsepower.

@farmboy9510 - I'll have some pictures soon we're just away on holidays right now. you need to be somewhat careful which cummins you use as some of the motors have a lighter crankshaft nose end and running your hydraulic pump off of it will shear off the end of the crank.
If it came out of a bus a three ton or a marine or ag application you should be fine, either that or you might need to find a different way to run your pump.
We are currently building an adapter plate to mount a driveshaft off the dampner and will remote mount the hydraulic pump a couple feet ahead of the engine. I'll get all the pictures up and can send you some measurements if your interested of how we did our mounts and the stretch measurements. all in all the stretch is really simple. lop the frame in half and skid it back. extend a couple lines and the pushoff feet.
We could possibly build another wagon for someone to if anyone is interested just contact me or even do a stretch.

Aaron.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

Good project!

A few years back we dropped a 5.9L Cummins into our old 1033 NH, and boy did that make a difference. Its got a 5sp manual though, but we just hacked the frame on the pickup with the motor still in it. Then we laid it on the floor and lifted the whole bale wagon over the motor and welded into place and just did some wiring and got the motor running and the throttle cable and away we went.

For fun my dad topped out the speed, rougly (95mp)







and he has only does this once. But the cummins can easily handle idling speed and run all the oil systems and not having to worry about losing power.

Please post pics of your rebuild!

Thanks,

Richard


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

AaronQ said:


> @ Teslan- The 1069 will outpick the 1089 hands down with a decent operator behind the wheels of both machines. the problem with the 1089 and the newer wagons is the method they perfrom the right hand bale stack evener. The 89's literally stop the cross conveyor chain and reverse it till it hits a preset adjustable stop which engages the first table to go up. very slow.
> We have tinkered with a couple machines and shortened the stroke on the trip cylinder and proximity switch and gained a few milliseconds out of it but it's still not nearly as fast as the cable system stack evener the 1069s use.
> The main advantage with the 89s evener is it's virtually maintenance free other then one extra switch that can fail but they don't seem to botch to terribly often.
> the perkins diesel and the 460 gas engine in the 1069s are one of they're major downfalls as they just don't have the get up and go that the turbo charged 7.5L Izuzus have in the new wagons. wether it be starting from a stop in the field after fixing a bale mistake or taking off down the road they just have more horsepower.
> ...


I have a 1089 and before that we had the 1069 with the gas engine. I agree about the stack evener being better on the 1069. I'm not sure why they changed it. I have more problems with the 1089 with the current stack evener on when my bales get to long or if on a hill and one slides sideways.	I'm not sure what you are talking about the 2nd table being slow though. Mine is as fast as the 1069 is. In our situation the 1089 is much faster then the 1069. That is because we do 16X18 bales. The 1069 would hold 133 the 1089 holds 160. I like using the 1089 much much better then the 1069. But most of that is due to the Allison transmission. The clutch was killing my knee on the 1069. But that's my knees problem and not the machine.	Now my cousin still has that 1069. He bought a newer BW28 last summer. He says he can stack faster with the 1069 then the BW 28. He complains about the speed of the first table. So it is probably the stack evener that is causing his slow down.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

teslan- sorry i meant the first table is slower because of the method of the evener, the second tables on the 89's and bw machines are very very quick especially on the return stroke coming back down. we've bored the valves out and machined bigger cartridge spools for the 1069 which helped but its not something the everyday guy would do. if your looking to speed up the second table a bit take off the 5/8 or 3/4 inch hydraulic line (depending on the age of the machine) and replace it with a 1" line. As well as install a larger T fitting that it connects into (the line for the second table). it doesnt speed up the upwards stroke loaded as it's defined by the load on the table but it vastly speed's up the return stroke which is what you always wait on anyways as you usually by that time have three bales on your first table and it's tripped waiting for your second table to return.

@ T&R Hay. 95 mph would be one heck of a ride on stock tires and braking system, sure hope he never tried it loaded! how did your factory differentials stand up to the added torque and HP of the cummins? We've shredded diffs on our perkins engine before with the fuel pump turned up a bit.
Pics will be coming in a week and a bit when we get back home. currently my welder is mounting tanks and radiator w/ intercooler and building some brackets to mount up the Hyd. pump.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

AaronQ said:


> teslan- sorry i meant the first table is slower because of the method of the evener, the second tables on the 89's and bw machines are very very quick especially on the return stroke coming back down. we've bored the valves out and machined bigger cartridge spools for the 1069 which helped but its not something the everyday guy would do. if your looking to speed up the second table a bit take off the 5/8 or 3/4 inch hydraulic line (depending on the age of the machine) and replace it with a 1" line. As well as install a larger T fitting that it connects into (the line for the second table). it doesnt speed up the upwards stroke loaded as it's defined by the load on the table but it vastly speed's up the return stroke which is what you always wait on anyways as you usually by that time have three bales on your first table and it's tripped waiting for your second table to return.
> 
> @ T&R Hay. 95 mph would be one heck of a ride on stock tires and braking system, sure hope he never tried it loaded! how did your factory differentials stand up to the added torque and HP of the cummins? We've shredded diffs on our perkins engine before with the fuel pump turned up a bit.
> Pics will be coming in a week and a bit when we get back home. currently my welder is mounting tanks and radiator w/ intercooler and building some brackets to mount up the Hyd. pump.


Aaron,

No he was not loaded when he was going 95! Ha. But everything has performed well. We have not had any problem with the stock differentials with the added torque of the Cummins. He is a bulletproof machine. Just needs a new coat of paint







. (PS: It will be a green and yellow machine after next winter







)

The stock tires can handle 60mph with a load down the highway, and the brakes are ok, just need to know how to down shift. But the 2-speed went out so we top out at about 60 mph, which is a perfect speed.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

heres pictures for everyone. 
Descriptions and info to come soon


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Do you extend the load rack as well?


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

yup you extend the frame, load rack and push off feet all the same length, normally we only go 18 inches on the other stretches we've done this one we went to 20" to give a little extra room on the load rack so once your tenth tier is up the bales will stay up a little better if you drop your second table to grab a few more bales or an extra tier.
every tenth load is free on a stretched wagon and that much more hay under the tarp or in the shed. less trips to the field. win win.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Not many bale wagons out here as in nearly none, how do you keep from dragging the radiator getting into fields?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

If the radiator would get hung up on anything in a field then that field has some very rough spots I would think. They all hang down that far. Not just on Aaron's machine.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe its just the scale/angle, looks like its less than 12" off ground. If it is, with the long wheel base it would hit the road shoulder dropping into the fields here.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Maybe its just the scale/angle, looks like its less than 12" off ground. If it is, with the long wheel base it would hit the road shoulder dropping into the fields here.


 I think it might be slightly under 12 inches and I myself might drag it going into one of my fields as well since the wheel base is longer. Normally there is a bar around it at the bottom protecting if you would catch it. Aaron might not have that part back on yet.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Looks great! Do you have any pictures of extending the bale bed? Im thinking of making my 1033 bigger.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I should add I really like the work, its nice when big projects like this come together well!


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks for the feedback guys, i really appreciate it and yes its really great when a project comes together.
We have a pile of hours into it so big is almost an understatement.
I'll get some more pictures of the radiator for you soon as well as the hydraulic pump set up and the new differential and tires.
i'll get you some pictures of the load rack to. its really simple as well. toughest part of that is splitting the rolling rack cylinder apart to put the longer rod in it.
The radiator actually sits about 1.5" higher then the factory unit did. and yes there is a safety bar that will go around there to catch any bales. For dropping into fields and off shoulders we have enough dirt equipment and good loader tractors if i have to hit that much of a shoulder to get to a field i don't want to be in there to terribly badly. we do have some sloughs and low areas we've ditched that you do have to be careful in as we've hit the bottom of your cab or step but never had a problem with catching the center of the frame. that would have to be one heck of a hump.
The added wheel base on the frame stretch accounts for less then 10% of the axle to axle base. We've had three stretched wagons and we've been involved in stretching at least a dozen others and never had a problem with any.
Is there not many approaches off the road to scale the ditch in your area Slowzuki?
I've seen alot more bale loaders catching arms get folded around by digging them into a sidehill or a trough. operators not being careful enough and not picking up the loader a little bit.
We built a kit and sold a bunch to our neighbors to reinforce that bale loader cause once it's done once it bends alot easier the next time.
One thing i should add for everyone to stay tuned for is our axle swap as well which is still ongoing. We've put a Eaton 23000LB two speed axle with 15.5" disc brakes on it to avoid tearing crown and pinions apart or breaking axles. Alot of our export timothy is plenty heavy (65-70lbs) and with the extra tier you have to be careful with your clutch or you'll snap axles like twigs.
Should be slowed down at work getting air seeders ready this week so i can start on the wagon again next week hopefully!!
I'll keep you guys posted.
If anyone has any other questions don't be scared to PM me or give me a call @ 403 598 5365.
Cheers


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Ground is pretty rocky and rough all over here. When road was built the field entrances were for horses and no culverts installed, just over the bank in a spot that isn't too deep. Since DOT owns into the field past the ditch its quite an ordeal to install a culvert and officially install an access on the highway.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

wow. thats a little ridiculous, you try writing some letters to your mp or county legislature about it? access to the field should be your right and i understand not being able to put an approach just anywhere but you should be able to do it in a place where they determine none the less, you had clean access to the field before the highway was there, should now to imho.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

Rolled the axle underneath it this weekend guys.
Eaton two speed with disc brakes on dayton hubs so dual wheels here we come!
Plumbed the brakes and slapped a new drive shaft in it to, pretty successful weekend i would say.
Pictures coming soon!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Lol won't happen like that here in the east. No money for cleaning the ditches out never mind culverts etc. Thats fine by me as our taxes are low. The highway has likely been there in some form since oh 1755 or so? When they paved it years ago every farm that could bring enough rock to do the section in front of their property was exempt from taxes that year or something like that. Back 20 years ago though you could put in an entrance yourself and we had no building permits.

A few drunks crashing into the ends of culverts killing themselves ended that.



AaronQ said:


> wow. thats a little ridiculous, you try writing some letters to your mp or county legislature about it? access to the field should be your right and i understand not being able to put an approach just anywhere but you should be able to do it in a place where they determine none the less, you had clean access to the field before the highway was there, should now to imho.


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## ssbland (Oct 1, 2010)

That's cool
I did our 1069 a couple years ago 
I used a 5.9 with a 4 spd allison from a 5 ton
Made a huge difference, we have a lot of land that is 10-15 kms away
How did the electric fans work out? I had to put a hydraulic fan on because it would heat up on the hills we have


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Looks a lot like our 1049 that we put a DTA360 and allison in! Fun times. Still a work in progress.


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## jjanssen (Apr 14, 2014)

Aaron I have the 5.9 and the 5 Spd Allison. Looking to get it into my 1069 and wondering if you had to put a different differential in the wagon to maintain a slow enough speed in heavy windrows. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

jjanssen said:


> Aaron I have the 5.9 and the 5 Spd Allison. Looking to get it into my 1069 and wondering if you had to put a different differential in the wagon to maintain a slow enough speed in heavy windrows. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks.


Somewhere on haytalk there are pics of our dta360/Allison 1049 conversion. Anyway, you should be able to use your rears because you have way more power and torque with your new drivetrain and should be able to putt along at low rpms to get your speed right. However, because of the low rpms, you should probably get a bigger hydraulic pump so that your picking operations don't also slow down.


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## Larry (Mar 28, 2011)

Aaron do you guys use a retriever truck to move stacks to the yard/sheds? As i find if its over say a couple miles its too much time spent roading back and forth but then I only have one balewagon (super 1049). Up by Edmonton here its too the point some summers I barely have enough time to get it baled before the thunder storms hit so I have to be right behind the balers getting it off in tucked away.

I have high traffic volumes on the highway that runs by my farm that now its too the point it can be very dangerous dodgeing impatient drivers and gravel trucks. A couple years ago I was hit head on when a driver drove straight into me luckly i was in my Pete and not the balewagon as I'd be road kill.

So on my farther away fields I just stack it on the spot and come back and get it as the stacks pick back up fine if stacked correctly. If rain looks like its going to hit we throw a tarp on or if is a little shower at least its just the top bales that get damp and not a whole field of them.

I'm on my 3rd truck same retriever I built in 1999. Lost my '08 peterbilt in a crash in 2011.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

Why not just go with 3-string bales?


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## Larry (Mar 28, 2011)

haystax said:


> Why not just go with 3-string bales?


No market here for them though it would make things faster for sure. Stables like the 55-65lb bale so everyone can handle them by hand.


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