# Trusses for New Hay Barn



## RockyHill

Need thoughts on steel vs wood trusses for hay barn. Will be built with wood posts in ground. Have used wood trusses in other barns. Know will need to have carpenter's input but I value all the knowledge Hay Talk folks have.

Thanks,

Shelia


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## r82230

Wood posts, what is the rational for steel trusses, distance? Seems steel would be more $$$.

Are you putting wood (OSB) then steel roof? If so, seems wood (post) fastening to wood (trusses) fastening to wood underlayment (OSB) would be simplest fastening.

Thing to remember about steel expands/contracts around 1/8" every 16 or 20', with a temperature change of around 80 degrees. IDR the exact percentages but I think I'm in the ball park. Wood doesn't seem to have this feature.

Now, it there are other reasons for steel (height considerations or need for truss strength) then you might be able to live with the expansion/contraction of steel.

Might be short on my two cents worth. 

Larry


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## RockyHill

Steel are about twice the cost of wood but use about half as many so looking like that would equal out.

I don't speak the language well  but the steel fasten directly to the posts, don't have to have a header running the length of the barn. Steel have a bracket for the purlins to fit in and be fastened to instead of measure, fit, secure on wood. Wondering if labor would be less along with some less lumber for the header.

Our roofs don't have OSB; the enclosed barns have the foil backed bubble insulation but the open hay barn doesn't have anything but trusses/purlins/metal roof.

Larry, we'll work on your two cents worth more as time goes on. 

Shelia


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## r82230

I like the OSB for a couple or reasons, it's much quieter during a rain storm and I don't have the 'sweating' (read water off the underside).

If here is savings, because of spacing, would there be cost to adding more 2 x 4's (or would you use 2 x 6's) underneath the steel roof (with or with out OSB). My trusses are on 4' centers, so I'm guessing you are looking at 8' (or more) on center.

With all things being equal cost/labor wise. Advantage to steel, less places for birds to land, could be a deciding factor. Maybe they are not a problem in YOUR neck of woods. 

Larry

PS wood advantage in my case, easier for me to fasten electric wire/lights.


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## VA Haymaker

When we built our barn last year, we used engineered trusses. One of the questions I asked was - we know what the vertical load down is going to be, but what about when the doors are open and a huge wind blows in and tries to inflate the barn. What is the upward load? They redesigned the gable end trusses based on my question. We have hurricane ties holding the trusses down.

We over built our barn, but IMHO, it gets really windy here. Our posts are in the ground 4 ft with a concrete pad under them. Crusher run back fill. Roof eves are 2ft over hang on the sides and 1 ft on the front and rear. Posts are 6x6 and are old type CCA with a higher precentage of treatment. I can't remember if it is .80 or .95, but it was not expensive to add the additional treatment since we had to special order the posts anyway. CCA is still allowed in agricultural buildings. Our roof is 5/8 - 5 ply - plywood. When the screw goes through, I wanted plenty of plies holding it in. Metal roof w/gutters. Vented soffits all the way around and a ridge vent. Doors wide and tall enough to easily drive a loaded kicker wagon through. Doors on both ends and one on the side. We also put a small clear plastic window along the length of each side for some ambient light. At some point we are going to do an asphault floor. We built the barn bigger than planned, but easily fill it. It is tall enough (16ft) that we can add lean to's later. We used a waistcoat (sp?) around the perimeter and left an exposed treated 2x6 along the bottom perimeter so a weed eater string wouldn't tear up the metal. White barn, green waistcoat and green roof - it is a beautiful building IMHO. Local contractor built it. I tried and tried to get Morton to give me a quote and warranty details (read fine print), for whatever reason, they wouldn't, they never took us serious. After the barn was built, I contacted them to let it be know that we in fact built a barn. The guy was shocked IMHO. I then told him to give me a quote for basically an identical barn, a second barn on the farm - I wanted to know how much an equivalent Mortan building would cost. The quote was substantially higher than the local contractor and materials.

Good luck with the barn and ping me if you have any questions, I'll tell you what I think I know...

Bill


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## somedevildawg

Sheila are you talking about the angle iron steel trusses that I see advertised? 40-50’ clear span? Have attachments to install on to 6x6” posts?


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## somedevildawg

I bought a Morton building, I think it’s like 40x60....(I know I should know that  ) haven’t went and picked it up yet.....damn time flies, that’s been 6 months ago  they appear to be nice buildings, apparently they have more business than they can handle....


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## somedevildawg

Bill, have you posted pics of that barn before? I don’t remember, but nothing unusual about that, but it sounds interesting and nice. Btw, its wainscot....and I bet it’s purty


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## RockyHill

This shows the kind of trusses. Looks like should be simple to build. Will have lean to on one side. We don't use gutters, have tile/gravel drainage along each side. Will use our geotextile fabric/10 mil plastic/crushed rock floor.


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## somedevildawg

Ya, I like those trusses....let us know how they work out if you use them, purty economical, 10’ centers works out good too....


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## Palmettokat

Sheila, I looked in some detail at barn in coastal South Carolina and we had to meet something about 125 mph rated roofs. Well not sure since ag building had to meet it but the code person strongly recommended it. Ran into some metal trusses from Florida and maybe Georgia and South Carolina that were not engineered, so you had no real idea of their capacity. If memory is correct the local builders mostly if not all used wood trusses. Those using the metal were I think all from out of town. The price difference was not much.

There was also argument in the style of the metal whether angle iron was better and moisture would not be caught in it or if tubing was better due to strength to weight.

Would not want to use any truss there was not engineered specs on it.


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## VA Haymaker

somedevildawg said:


> Bill, have you posted pics of that barn before? I don't remember, but nothing unusual about that, but it sounds interesting and nice. Btw, its wainscot....and I bet it's purty


A few pics of our barn...


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## somedevildawg

Wow, really nice.... congrats!


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> This shows the kind of trusses. Looks like should be simple to build. Will have lean to on one side. We don't use gutters, have tile/gravel drainage along each side. Will use our geotextile fabric/10 mil plastic/crushed rock floor.


I have those trusses in a building built in 1983. 
Still holding up well.

Goes up real easy and the labor & dangerous task of standing up the wood trusses then bracing them is avoided.


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## slowzuki

Houle used to sell those style steel trusses here, easy to erect, had tabs for purlins. Good reputation.


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## RockyHill

JD3430 said:


> I have those trusses in a building built in 1983.
> Still holding up well.
> 
> Goes up real easy and the labor & dangerous task of standing up the wood trusses then bracing them is avoided.


Thanks. Any suggestions on the process?

Shelia


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## r82230

somedevildawg said:


> I bought a Morton building, I think it's like 40x60....(I know I should know that  ) haven't went and picked it up yet.....damn time flies, that's been 6 months ago


Dawg, I'll help you out, send me your ID, I'll "store" your building for you.  I will even check the 'snow load', just in case we have a reverse climate change.  And I'll even do it on the 'cheap' side, I'm thinking a couple of pecan pies every couple months would be mighty fair.  :lol:  :lol:

Larry


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## r82230

Sheila,

I like the steel trusses with the open end, a lot of head room. Even in my enclosed building there would be a benefit of more clearance. I've only hit one of my trusses so far at 20'.  I'm thinking not only higher but less 'targets' too. 

Larry


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## Ranger518

I have used both wood trusses when I built my shop and metal trusses when I built my hay barn both on 10’ centers and both pole barn style with wood post and purlins. I like the steel trusses much better as they are easer and faster to install plus you get more ceiling space.


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> Steel are about twice the cost of wood but use about half as many so looking like that would equal out.
> 
> I don't speak the language well  but the steel fasten directly to the posts, don't have to have a header running the length of the barn. Steel have a bracket for the purlins to fit in and be fastened to instead of measure, fit, secure on wood. Wondering if labor would be less along with some less lumber for the header.
> 
> Our roofs don't have OSB; the enclosed barns have the foil backed bubble insulation but the open hay barn doesn't have anything but trusses/purlins/metal roof.
> 
> Larry, we'll work on your two cents worth more as time goes on.
> 
> Shelia


Yes theres less labor and its a safer job than standing up trusses. I think I can build one of those with just one helper and a Genie lift. The one Im in now has your typical painted steel roof. I like the way they go together. More idiot proof.


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## Ranger518

I don’t think steel are any more or much more $ then wood because I bought my trusses which are 40’ span with 2’ overhang 4:12 pitch for $190.00 Each 3 years ago.


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## RockyHill

JD3430 said:


> Yes theres less labor and its a safer job than standing up trusses. I think I can build one of those with just one helper and a Genie lift. The one Im in now has your typical painted steel roof. I like the way they go together. More idiot proof.


Want a trip to Kentucky?

Shelia


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## RockyHill

Ranger518 said:


> I don't think steel are any more or much more $ then wood because I bought my trusses which are 40' span with 2' overhang 4:12 pitch for $190.00 Each 3 years ago.


the price sheet we're working with has 40' for about $280 here

Shelia


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## somedevildawg

RockyHill said:


> the price sheet we're working with has 40' for about $280 here
> 
> Shelia


Ya I think steel has increased over a few years ago....very volatile market.


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> Want a trip to Kentucky?
> 
> Shelia


Hah, I wish, but thanks for compliment.

I like how few trusses you need versus wood and more emphasis on purlins


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## RockyHill

JD3430 said:


> Hah, I wish, but thanks for compliment.
> 
> I like how few trusses you need versus wood and more emphasis on purlins


In the center of your picture, are there some braces in that section?

Shelia


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> In the center of your picture, are there some braces in that section?
> 
> Shelia


Yes, there are auxiliary X braces you add after the primary structure is up to stiffen it and increase wind shear and loads.


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> the price sheet we're working with has 40' for about $280 here
> 
> Shelia


Seen many an amateur carpenter stand up wood trusses without proper bracing and have them collapse like dominos. If you go the wood trusses route, make sure you start your first truss with extra vertical and diagonal bracing, then block and tie each truss as you go.


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## slowzuki

Lot of folks building roof on ground here and hiring crane to set on framing.


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## CowboyRam

JD3430 said:


> Seen many an amateur carpenter stand up wood trusses without proper bracing and have them collapse like dominos. If you go the wood trusses route, make sure you start your first truss with extra vertical and diagonal bracing, then block and tie each truss as you go.


I have seen professional carpenters set trusses without proper bracing, leave for the weekend and come back on Monday morning so see the trusses were all toppled over. All I can say is that I am sure glad it was not my job; that out in the middle of town for everyone to see.


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## JD3430

CowboyRam said:


> I have seen professional carpenters set trusses without proper bracing, leave for the weekend and come back on Monday morning so see the trusses were all toppled over. All I can say is that I am sure glad it was not my job; that out in the middle of town for everyone to see.


What I do is take 2) 20' 2x6s and nail them together perpendicularly. I will take 20P spikes and spike them into the back wall through the sheathing and into a stud. I will put two of those on the back wall, then lean my first "wall truss" against those braces. Hold it to braces with a couple nail gun nails. Then we hand carry the roof trusses in, upside down (I don't need no stinkin crane :lol: ) and "hang" them on the walls. Then simply flip them up and brace the first truss to the wall truss. Then I use 2x4 overlookers on the first 2 trusses to brace successive trusses into place.


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## r82230

I watched the Amish boys set my trusses, seemed that with 64 footers, they were chicken and used a stinkin' crane,  but I suppose anything is possible. 

Larry


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## danwi

The one Amish crew around here sets them with a crane they they have them paired up on the ground with purlins in between and the purlins to fill the gaps between each set ride up with a pair. They can have all the trusses set and ready for a roof on a 120 ft building before noon.


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## JD3430

r82230 said:


> I watched the Amish boys set my trusses, seemed that with 64 footers, they were chicken and used a stinkin' crane,  but I suppose anything is possible.
> 
> Larry


yeah for a big time farmers building like yours you want a crane. I'm a small timer, so usually smaller trusses


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## RockyHill

We had a great carpenter that built three barns and did a repurpose/restore tobacco barn to hay barn. Unfortunately for us, he retired without him his crew just isn't acceptable. Jeff used tractor loader to set wooden trusses on all of the new constructions. We now have telehandler plus tractor loaders but carpenter will be new to us.

Twenty years ago Jeff and I built a shop building (on previous farm) including the wooden trusses. Had an architect friend that approved the truss design/build. Had concrete floor and studded walls. We built all four walls flat on the ground and then used tractor loader to raise into position. Jeff just fastened the four corners together. My dad was retired from construction/farming and he helped Jeff with trusses and roofing. But alas, my dad has gone to his heavenly home, our great carpenter has retired, and Jeff and I are in between those scenarios.

Shelia


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> We had a great carpenter that built three barns and did a repurpose/restore tobacco barn to hay barn. Unfortunately for us, he retired without him his crew just isn't acceptable. Jeff used tractor loader to set wooden trusses on all of the new constructions. We now have telehandler plus tractor loaders but carpenter will be new to us.
> 
> Twenty years ago Jeff and I built a shop building (on previous farm) including the wooden trusses. Had an architect friend that approved the truss design/build. Had concrete floor and studded walls. We built all four walls flat on the ground and then used tractor loader to raise into position. Jeff just fastened the four corners together. My dad was retired from construction/farming and he helped Jeff with trusses and roofing. But alas, my dad has gone to his heavenly home, our great carpenter has retired, and Jeff and I are in between those scenarios.
> 
> Shelia


Can you go to local professional lumber yard and ask for a few names of rough framers?


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## RockyHill

JD3430 said:


> Can you go to local professional lumber yard and ask for a few names of rough framers?


We have three carpenter crews that we're familiar with their work. Any of these will do a good job but at a substantial cost. We know of some Amish that might be looking for work that we're going to find out more about. We like to pay a good wage and usually give a bonus but do want work that is bonus-worthy.

Shelia


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## r82230

Couple of things I liked about the Amish, they showed up early everyday, ready to go to work, didn't ever seem to have a hang over. Only days they took off, they told me ahead of time (Amish weddings are during the week).

Larry


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## danwi

r82230 said:


> Couple of things I liked about the Amish, they showed up early everyday, ready to go to work, didn't ever seem to have a hang over. Only days they took off, they told me ahead of time (Amish weddings are during the week).
> 
> Larry


And they don't take coffee and smoke breaks. And if they use a phone they don't spend all day on it.


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## RockyHill

Our retired carpenter (Aaron) was Mennonite. The arrived for work on time; were getting tool belts on as they were getting out of the truck; got their water jugs and had them set where they could get a quick drink when getting materials. They would say a pleasant good morning but no chit chatting, went straight to work; didn't take any breaks except for lunch. There was no time that wasn't being productive. Aaron had the work for the day thought out beforehand; they didn't have cell phones. Pleasant people, just took the work seriously. Their rates were very reasonable and we gave generous bonuses. Glad we had Aaron and his crew then and realize they are a hard act to follow.

Shelia


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## JD3430

RockyHill said:


> Our retired carpenter (Aaron) was Mennonite. The arrived for work on time; were getting tool belts on as they were getting out of the truck; got their water jugs and had them set where they could get a quick drink when getting materials. They would say a pleasant good morning but no chit chatting, went straight to work; didn't take any breaks except for lunch. There was no time that wasn't being productive. Aaron had the work for the day thought out beforehand; they didn't have cell phones. Pleasant people, just took the work seriously. Their rates were very reasonable and we gave generous bonuses. Glad we had Aaron and his crew then and realize they are a hard act to follow.
> 
> Shelia


That's the way to go. I have Amish, MennonIte and ex Mennonite friends in the construction trades. 
They are great to work with.


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## BWfarms

Have or should say had a metal trussed barn well it's still there sort of. Don't expect it to hold 2 feet of snow and ice when it's almost 30 years old. Paw Paw had me salvage the wood from the center span and left the ends as 'sheds'. I still wouldn't be afraid of building another one but insure it.


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## r82230

BWfarms said:


> Have or should say had a metal trussed barn well it's still there sort of. Don't expect it to hold 2 feet of snow and ice when it's almost 30 years old. Paw Paw had me salvage the wood from the center span and left the ends as 'sheds'. I still wouldn't be afraid of building another one but insure it.


If Shelia & Jeff, get 2' of snow/ice, our climate change made a big reversal, IMHO. Maybe i'll have to ask Al Gore to be certain. 

Larry


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## RockyHill

r82230 said:


> If Shelia & Jeff, get 2' of snow/ice, our climate change made a big reversal, IMHO. Maybe i'll have to ask Al Gore to be certain.
> 
> Larry


The way 2020 has been going, 2' of snow/ice in even July/August would seem as "normal" as other happenings.

Shelia


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## BWfarms

It was January 2000 when it dumped record snow here and then the ice came; I'm south of RockyHill and it seems every time I'm in Kentucky there's an ice storm so it can happen. It was almost two and a half weeks before we got power back. Had a lot of ice storms from 98-02 of course bookend with some nasty hurricanes. 2002 was a lengthy outage too. Had my share of beatings from storms and I'd rather endure them than the mess going on in America now.


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## Ranger518

BWfarms said:


> It was January 2000 when it dumped record snow here and then the ice came; I'm south of RockyHill and it seems every time I'm in Kentucky there's an ice storm so it can happen. It was almost two and a half weeks before we got power back. Had a lot of ice storms from 98-02 of course bookend with some nasty hurricanes. 2002 was a lengthy outage too. Had my share of beatings from storms and I'd rather endure them than the mess going on in America now.


I agree I would definitely rather deal witht then the crap going on right now. It's a cray time and I don't like it.


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## ttazzman

leeave96 said:


> When we built our barn last year, we used engineered trusses. One of the questions I asked was - we know what the vertical load down is going to be, but what about when the doors are open and a huge wind blows in and tries to inflate the barn. What is the upward load? They redesigned the gable end trusses based on my question. We have hurricane ties holding the trusses down.
> 
> We over built our barn, but IMHO, it gets really windy here. Our posts are in the ground 4 ft with a concrete pad under them. Crusher run back fill. Roof eves are 2ft over hang on the sides and 1 ft on the front and rear. Posts are 6x6 and are old type CCA with a higher precentage of treatment. I can't remember if it is .80 or .95, but it was not expensive to add the additional treatment since we had to special order the posts anyway. CCA is still allowed in agricultural buildings. Our roof is 5/8 - 5 ply - plywood. When the screw goes through, I wanted plenty of plies holding it in. Metal roof w/gutters. Vented soffits all the way around and a ridge vent. Doors wide and tall enough to easily drive a loaded kicker wagon through. Doors on both ends and one on the side. We also put a small clear plastic window along the length of each side for some ambient light. At some point we are going to do an asphault floor. We built the barn bigger than planned, but easily fill it. It is tall enough (16ft) that we can add lean to's later. We used a waistcoat (sp?) around the perimeter and left an exposed treated 2x6 along the bottom perimeter so a weed eater string wouldn't tear up the metal. White barn, green waistcoat and green roof - it is a beautiful building IMHO. Local contractor built it. I tried and tried to get Morton to give me a quote and warranty details (read fine print), for whatever reason, they wouldn't, they never took us serious. After the barn was built, I contacted them to let it be know that we in fact built a barn. The guy was shocked IMHO. I then told him to give me a quote for basically an identical barn, a second barn on the farm - I wanted to know how much an equivalent Mortan building would cost. The quote was substantially higher than the local contractor and materials.
> 
> Good luck with the barn and ping me if you have any questions, I'll tell you what I think I know...
> 
> Bill


Bill i found your post intresting since you touched on a rarely though of or discussed issue with buildings ...(UPLIFT).....

as a commercial/industrial engineer/contractor ......many times footings and foundations have to be upsized to resist the uploads much larger than required for downloads.......this is a issue most of the general public have no clue about........up lift tends to affect every connection all the way to the posts in the ground and its good you brought the issue up ........i am curious you mention in your post that you set your posts on poured concrete for down force...what did you do to keep them from pulling out of the ground?


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## VA Haymaker

ttazzman said:


> Bill i found your post intresting since you touched on a rarely though of or discussed issue with buildings ...(UPLIFT).....
> 
> as a commercial/industrial engineer/contractor ......many times footings and foundations have to be upsized to resist the uploads much larger than required for downloads.......this is a issue most of the general public have no clue about........up lift tends to affect every connection all the way to the posts in the ground and its good you brought the issue up ........i am curious you mention in your post that you set your posts on poured concrete for down force...what did you do to keep them from pulling out of the ground?


Typically in our area, pole barn posts are set 3ft in the ground. We put ours 4ft in the ground as I feel it's fairly windy at times and had uplift concerns.. We then backfilled with crusher run gravel.

Thanks,
Bill


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## JD3430

I’ve had to replace a few dozen pole barn posts over the last 25 years. Some will randomly decay. I set mine on a concrete footing about 42” down and backfill with stone. When I go back to replace one, it’s like pulling a stump stuck down in 4’ of mud! They do NOT want to come out! I end up using post hole diggers and pulling out the stumps mostly by hand.


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