# UREA had NO Impact?!



## FarmGirl (May 13, 2019)

I'm in mid-Michigan, and finally after the fields dried out a bit I went down to the local co=op and asked for whatever fertilizer they'd recommend for my 100% pure orchard grass field. The field this year looked awful after winter, like maybe half the grass had died (it's only 2 years old). I had even overseeded last fall with more orchard grass to help fill in bare spots . . .

Anyway, I had only 10 acres dry so they gave me one ton of urea, or about 200lbs per acre. I applied with a spreader cart, and we received light rain that night and over thenext week maybe a bit over an inch.

The grass has been slightly light green prior to the urea, and I recall last year having a similar issue. I ran soil samples but they never seemed to have any plan for how to amend my soil to help my grass, and sold me a few rounds of sulfer last year thinking that was the issue. Last year we fertilized with "Black Label Gold" with zinc. I DID notice last year that areas with extra put down were much thicker and darker though . . .

Anyway, the problem is my boyfriend went out after a week and looked at the field and was upset because he didn't think the Urea was working . . . it seemed just as pale as before.

I honestly would rather do manure instead of chemicals, but BF has been reluctant to the idea. We do have cows, horses, chickens and dogs, so we had previously just been dumping it or pasture spreading.

I think the soil pH was about 6.5 and it's a heavy clay soil on a hilltop . . .

oh, and I'm not new but for whatever reason can't remember my log in info, hahaha


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Three thoughts come to mind:

First, slow down, don't panic, it takes time for the urea to migrate through the soil to get to the plant's roots and even longer in clay soils.

Second, based on the weather hereabouts this year, and looking at your location, there's a reasonable chance that your OG is just now coming out of dormancy. (And personally, I'm the same way.)

Third, if I remember right, you were having snow there just a couple of weeks ago. This is a VERY late spring. Many trees around me are still leafing out.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## swall01 (Jun 10, 2018)

ive experienced this several times, which is why i dont use urea any more. I also dont use available manure sources due to inconsistent nutrient supply and large introduction of weeds. There is 1 local co-op that has access to a few different ammonium sources and i get consistent results with that. If the urea had been at the co-op for very long it likely had evaporated its nitrogen before you ever purchased. the only recourse is if you had sampled it and sent to lab for eval. I know some that have done this and refunds were made.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

It may have frost damage,sounds like you could have winter kill.Urea wont help that.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

swall01 said:


> ive experienced this several times, which is why i dont use urea any more. I also dont use available manure sources due to inconsistent nutrient supply and large introduction of weeds. There is 1 local co-op that has access to a few different ammonium sources and i get consistent results with that. If the urea had been at the co-op for very long it likely had evaporated its nitrogen before you ever purchased. the only recourse is if you had sampled it and sent to lab for eval. I know some that have done this and refunds were made.


Curious how urea loses its N in storage. Please elaborate....


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## FarmGirl (May 13, 2019)

I had even left the grass a bit longer last fall hoping it would help with winter kill (maybe about 6-8 inches), but maybe that's what CAUSED the winter kill. I cut it at 4 inches in early September, but due to a mild fall it kept on growing and by November it was about 6-8in tall.

I guess I'll wait another week on the urea and see if it starts greening up. I hadn't really been thnking about how long things would take but the boyfriend is pretty quick to jump to negative conclusions, lol.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Cold and wet. Plus heavy stay cooler longer. Winter kill affected us here in CNY. Orchardgrass especially hard hit. Limited sunshine also an issue. Once you get some sun and the soil dries out a bit and can breathe a little it'll take off


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## Mellow (Jun 22, 2015)

Always like liquid over plain urea especially for first cut. A liquid mix will give you both Urea and ammonium nitrate plus you can mix in sulfur, Black Label Zn and Boron. Plus liquid gives 100% coverage.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Being you are in Michigan here is a site to possibly help you get a better understanding of some weather info (possibly in your immediate area even):

https://enviroweather.msu.edu/weather.php?stn=msu

In my area I was about even on GGD (Growth Degree Days), about 3 weeks ago. Now I'm at 322 verses 381.9 average (last 6 year average). I should be getting 15-18 GDD a day not the 4 - 6 GGD that I got over the weekend. These are GGD for alfalfa, but you can get an idea of our colder than average temp anyway. My GGD for corn is even worse at 208 GGD so far, with a 283.3 GGD six year average.

My understanding of OG (or any cool season grass) is they start growing based upon hours of sunshine (which I say I behind on also, far amount of rain might be a reason ), but still they also respond to heat. I noticed my OG is starting to head out at about 12" -15" in height this year. I haven't put my cows out to pasture yet, this year (will tonight I think), whereas normally they are out to pasture by May 1. I have only mowed my lawn once (needs another mowing now), where usually I would have mowed 4-6 times by now. All this alludes to the same thing I believe, cold weather (furnace was running this morning again :angry.

I'd say have a little more patience (plus some heat units) in this case.

My two cents.

Larry


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Guess pretty close, the tallest I could find last night, was at 15".





  








Hay 2019 05 14




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r82230


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May 14, 2019











  








Hay 2019 05 13




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r82230


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May 14, 2019








Frost advisory last night in MY area, sure didn't help with the GDD accumulation, I do believe.

Larry


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## cjsr8595 (Jul 7, 2014)

I wish ours looked that good, we got hit hard with winter kill.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

cjsr8595 said:


> I wish ours looked that good, we got hit hard with winter kill.


That's volunteer OG in my situation, planted straight alfalfa in 2016 (not quite straight, added couple pounds of Brome). OG invades my hay fields, so I don't plant it. With it already heading out, I will be most likely spreading the seeds when I harvest 1st cutting.

Larry


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## swall01 (Jun 10, 2018)

stack em up said:


> Curious how urea loses its N in storage. Please elaborate....


Stack, urea is more volatile than other N sources. the co-ops around here dont use nutrisphere, N-Stay or any other inhibitor. Moisture and soil contact are the primary starting points for evaporation. Here in the south the humidity is off the charts, so thats a guaranteed source of loss the co-op cant do much about. the co-op i'm using doesnt even carry urea anymore, he mentioned several reasons: storage and poor performance being at the top of the list. i used it for many years sometimes good and sometimes with the same results as OP. i have yet to have poor results with ammonium sulfate, ammonium nitrate, or ammonium carbonate (called bulldog soda locally). my intent is not to blast urea but i see how it can read that way. my intent was simply to share my experience and what has been working in my situation.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

FarmGirl said:


> The grass has been slightly light green prior to the urea, and I recall last year having a similar issue. I ran soil samples but they never seemed to have any plan for how to amend my soil to help my grass, and sold me a few rounds of sulfer last year thinking that was the issue. Last year we fertilized with "Black Label Gold" with zinc. I DID notice last year that areas with extra put down were much thicker and darker though . . .


 They should be able to look at your soil test results, and based on the type of forage and tonnage you're pulling off, tell you how much NPK/Lime to add based on the consumption rate. If they can't do that they don't sound very competent. My soil test report tells me how much is recommended.

I like manure much better than chemical fertilizer; it's free for me from MSU Dairy and they spread it, and you get the advantage of micronutrients and soil microbes. The downside is unless it's composted, you will get weeds. MSU Dairy's manure is composted and regularly turned. They hauled in 40 ton on one of my fields last year, applied early in the spring, and that field did very well.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Just finished cutting several small fields and I noticed that there was a LOT of stem but not much leaf on fescue, OG and smooth brome.

I'm really surprised at the ratio of leaf to stem. I'm thinkiing this spring was too cool and TOO wet hereabouts.

It appears that there was little growth on the plant before it headed out.

Ralph


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## Bandman (Jun 24, 2019)

The heavy clay soil is probably very high in Magnesium. Adding Gypsum (calcium sulfate) will help amend the soil to allow proper exchange between soil and plant nutrition. It will also help prevent run off of what you apply. The people at Lime and Gypsum Products Inc. in Michigan will look at your soil test at no charge and help you out. ([email protected]). They will not try to sell you something you don't need.


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