# Dan Anderson on Tier 4



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Sounds about as expected.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/blog/in_the_shop/


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I still can vividly picture the brand new JD S670 sitting in neighbors field a stones throw from my fence 2 years ago. It sat there for 2 weeks during the harvest (brand new machine) because of some small emission part breakdown.


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

As a contractor who is dealing with this on yellow iron let me make the following observations. a 3406 running 75% throttle will burn10 gal def a day. the tier 4 equipment is 30% more expensive. look at all the computers, sensors, relays and other crap and tell me your gonna get 20-30 years life out of it. this has been a slipshod, slap up by the equip manufacturers and the government. If this was the greatest thing since sliced bread cal epa would not have a gun to the head of truckers and heavy equipment contractors. I have well kept up excavaters, scrapers and graders that in 2017 will be forced to leave ca. I'm 62 and I'll be dang if I'm going into 15 million dollars worth of debt for this boondoggle


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

1oldphart said:


> If this was the greatest thing since sliced bread cal epa would not have a gun to the head of truckers and heavy equipment contractors.


I do not know of anyone that thinks this is "great".....other than maybe some uninformed liberals. We are all sick about Tier4 and most of us would not buy a new tractor/equipment at this point in time because of this very expensive and impractical conceived concept.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Plenty of sun faded tier 4 tractors on dealer lots in MY area.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

1oldphart said:


> As a contractor who is dealing with this on yellow iron let me make the following observations. a 3406 running 75% throttle will burn10 gal def a day. the tier 4 equipment is 30% more expensive. look at all the computers, sensors, relays and other crap and tell me your gonna get 20-30 years life out of it. this has been a slipshod, slap up by the equip manufacturers and the government. If this was the greatest thing since sliced bread cal epa would not have a gun to the head of truckers and heavy equipment contractors. I have well kept up excavaters, scrapers and graders that in 2017 will be forced to leave ca. I'm 62 and I'll be dang if I'm going into 15 million dollars worth of debt for this boondoggle


So in CA you will be forced to upgrade your construction equipment if you want to keep using it past 2017? If so that's not right at all. The only "company" I see around here with brand new graders is the county. Even the oil/gas contractors have older ones.


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

we had to register all of our equip over 50 hp in 2008 as of 2012 we could not purchase any equipment tier 3 or below and could only sell our used stuff out of state. as of 2013 all public works projects or projects with an eir require the use of tier 3 or above eq exclusively. cal epa is now doing surprise inspections of contractors and putting big fines on violaters. there is no oversite on these guys whatsoever. we are in a big fight right now over the term "off Road Watertruck". ca epa wants 30,000.00 filters on a 4,000.00 truck.

Its all coming to agriculture and the rest of the nation only for self preservation these overlords just hit a small group at a time and keep it quiet from the rest of the nation.....paul


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

1oldphart said:


> we had to register all of our equip over 50 hp in 2008 as of 2012 we could not purchase any equipment tier 3 or below and could only sell our used stuff out of state. as of 2013 all public works projects or projects with an eir require the use of tier 3 or above eq exclusively. cal epa is now doing surprise inspections of contractors and putting big fines on violaters. there is no oversite on these guys whatsoever. we are in a big fight right now over the term "off Road Watertruck". ca epa wants 30,000.00 filters on a 4,000.00 truck.
> 
> Its all coming to agriculture and the rest of the nation only for self preservation these overlords just hit a small group at a time and keep it quiet from the rest of the nation.....paul


In the early 2000s. I can't remember what year exactly Colorado tried to pass something similar to that. It included farm equipment also. Basically what would have happened at the time is all equipment older then 1999 or so would have had to be upgraded. Much like your $30,000 for your $4000 water truck. Thankfully it was on the ballot and wasn't passed. That's the bad thing about the EPA. The public really doesn't have any control over it. Can't vote yes or no.

Does that over 50hp CA EPA law pertain to ag equipment as well?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

1oldphart said:


> we had to register all of our equip over 50 hp in 2008 as of 2012 we could not purchase any equipment tier 3 or below and could only sell our used stuff out of state. as of 2013 all public works projects or projects with an eir require the use of tier 3 or above eq exclusively. cal epa is now doing surprise inspections of contractors and putting big fines on violaters. there is no oversite on these guys whatsoever. we are in a big fight right now over the term "off Road Watertruck". ca epa wants 30,000.00 filters on a 4,000.00 truck.
> 
> Its all coming to agriculture and the rest of the nation only for self preservation these overlords just hit a small group at a time and keep it quiet from the rest of the nation.....paul


Well Paul, it is not surprising that CA seems to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy....with all the liberal legislators and administrators in your state I am surprised that they have not yet mandated electric construction equipment. I certainly hope that a reasonable replacement for Tier 4 will soon be at hand. I do not think that the equipment manufacturers will be able to withstand the backlash from consumers that is beginning to occur and will be yet to come.

Regards, Mike


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

at this time ag equipment is exempt. epa is offering grants to get early tractors, pump motors ect traded in. the paperwork assures that only big users can qualify and there isn't much funding available. we are looking at an 18 cent a gal increase on fuel tax for epa and the really fast train from nowhere to nowhere. Manufacturers walked into this hand in hand with govt. having been assured thousands of new sales, just as ins companies marched hand in hand for Obama care...paul


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So what is the prospect of farmers having to meet tier 4 minimums for OLDER equipment?
Could they make us sell perfectly good tier 3 equipment? 
What if every state does this? 
Then older tractors are worthless.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> So what is the prospect of farmers having to meet tier 4 minimums for OLDER equipment?
> Could they make us sell perfectly good tier 3 equipment?
> What if every state does this?
> Then older tractors are worthless.


They would be worth their weight in scrap metal. Whatever that's worth.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, but do you see a scenario where states can force us to replace tier 3 tractors with new tier 4 tractors?

If it happens in CA, I wouldn't be surprised in the least, but PA, OK, TX, SD??? that's a different story


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah, but do you see a scenario where they can force us to replace tier 3 tractors with new tier 4 tractors?


In my way of thinking no. But I'm sure there are those that can and the manufacturers sure can. They already are probably feeling the pinch of a loss of sales due to it. That will grow. And it seems big business anymore likes to promote themselves more through regulation, new laws, and such then actual innovation. It's probably cheaper.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

I have been putting my head in the sand as the newest equipment I have is a 78 combine.So far ag has got a break on diesel trucks if you only put 5000 or maybe 10000 miles on you can run a older truck.So I am stockpiling old Cat D6 I tractors there is more damage than they hoped .Who knows how it will all end.

There have been stories going around of tractors traded to get a tier 4 with goverment subsidy you have to destroy the old one.The scrape yards us a hammer to put a whole in the block ,do paper work and get goverment money.Now they weld whole in block up and send tractor off with tractor jockeys. Told if things work tractors are all right but not all the time ,so be careful of tractors that may have come from Ca.


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

At this moment Richie bros is getting rich selling ca equipment to mexico and south America. half the buyers are from south of the border. most older equipment is not able to be retrofitted. Tier 3 will be ok for at least 10 years or so. With gov moon beam in charge and no oversite of the academics running ca epa we are truly screwed.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah, but do you see a scenario where states can force us to replace tier 3 tractors with new tier 4 tractors?
> If it happens in CA, I wouldn't be surprised in the least, but PA, OK, TX, SD??? that's a different story


From what I'm reading from ol'fart, they aren't mandating replacement. They are mandating that all government construction jobs be done with current pollution technology. Government projects have other mandates (prevailing wage anyone?) that aren't ever going to transfer to private work. 
Did I misread this?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

When I sold a few guns online I only advertised to the lower 47. This is why. You guys in Cali are welcome to secede.I truly feel sorry for you with the way your state is run. This coming from a guy whose senator is Stuart Smalley and a retarded governor.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

1oldphart said:


> At this moment Richie bros is getting rich selling ca equipment to mexico and south America. half the buyers are from south of the border. most older equipment is not able to be retrofitted. Tier 3 will be ok for at least 10 years or so. With gov moon beam in charge and no oversite of the academics running ca epa we are truly screwed.


This is the parts that is criminal. IF the motivation were truly to clean the air, all machines would be destroyed but they are not. The entire world shares a common atmosphere but it appears to be acceptable to run these machines elsewhere as long as certain economies are handcuffed and punished. Like the agreement our noble leader signed with China to cut our emissions while they are permitted to increase before leveling off once they have complete competitive advantage.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> When I sold a few guns online I only advertised to the lower 47. This is why. You guys in Cali are welcome to secede.I truly feel sorry for you with the way your state is run. This coming from a guy whose senator is Stuart Smalley and a retarded governor.


We're going the way of the liberal retard here in PA soon, too. 
The "wolf man" is going to become governor of PA. He was the only democrat to win a major election in the United States back in November. 
I just hope he don't get to texting back and forth with moon beam out in CA and get any stupid ideas.....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

It doesn't even have to be tier 4 to be a pain in the *ss. Have a MF9690 we cut beans with, have fought it all fall thinking it was a fuel problem. Threw a code once in awhile that according to our manual wasn't anything that should cause the motor to cut out. Cleaned the strainer at the tank, blew all the lines out going to the motor, even took the rubber hose sections out and ran a rod thru em to make sure they weren't trying to swell shut, changed the charge pump, went thru multiple filters.

Finally threw a code that wasn't in our manual, looked it up on the internet, turns out the motor in our machine wasn't supposed to be in it until a few hundred machines later, got the proper manual, took the plugs off the cam and crank position sensors, sprayed a little electrical cleaner in em, hit em with a teeny little brass wire brush, plugged em back in and no problems since. Would have been done cutting beans a week sooner if we had the right list of trouble codes.


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