# New Holland BC 5070 Hayliner trouble



## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

A friend of mine bought this baler new about 2 years ago and has had trouble with it and no help from dealer so he brought to me to use and see if I could figure it out. What is happening is the needles go up to tie and the roller in the clutch disengages when the needles get to the top and then the stop comes in and shears the pin,I replaced the latch and everything looks good in the clutch including the roller the little spring etc. does anybody know if NH has put out a service bulletin on this as maybe a part in there was not made to specs or something I just cant find anything wrong with the naked eye,like I said the roller just engages about half way and that stops the needles,then just back up the flywheel and it falls back in place and finishes the tie of course after replacing the shear pin,any help will be appreciated


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

This may sound dumb, but here goes.

If the needles are out of time the shear bolts will be broken if not every time almost every time depending on how far out of time the needles are.

If the needle protection latch activating connections are loose then shear bolts may be broken as the needle protection latch is basically retarded in its withdrawal or it does not withdraw completely from the crank path.

DISCONNECT THE TRACTOR PTO.

The needle protection latch (I think you called it a stopper) (Referred to after as the NPL) should enter the path of the crank arm connected to the plunger as soon as the needles move a fraction.

The latch at rest i.e. between tying cycles should be flush with or 1/8 inch in from the outside surface of the baler chassis.

To adjust this the first adjustment is the arm attached to the needle yoke that the NPL cable is attached to. There is a locknut on the needle yoke on the left side of the baler, that lets you move that activating arm. If you cannot get enough adjustment there the second port of call is the cable connecting that arm to the NPL. A locknut is at the rear end of that cable near the arm, undo that remove the connecting pin and adjust the length of the cable but first put the arm on the needle yoike as far forward as possible so leaving convenient adjustment as the cable stretches in future.

Now the needle latch is set up have you checked the needle timing.

Have you checked the timing of the knotter.

There is a practical test you can perform without looking at the timing marks.

Very useful because it is an absolute test and independent of the timing marks.

Get someone to turn the baler very slowly by hand, with the top door over the plunger crank open.

Trip the knotter.

Turn the flywheel a little and watch the crank arm. The knotter should trip into gear and the needle protect latch suddenly enter into the crank arm's area of travel. When the crank arm is literally passing the needle protection latch, the latch should appear . Very little margin, that is good. If the needle protection latch does not appear until the crank arm is say 5 inches past the square front of the NPL then the knotter appears to be set such that it is retarded.

Time the needles according to the timing marks and retest with my practical test.

To time the needles :

Rotate the flywheel until the crank is about vertical and lies between the two marks impressed in the baler frame to the left of the crank.

The knotter clutch pawl should be resting against the stop on the knotter. Drag sharply sharply back on the needle yoke .

There are two marks , one on the outer wheel with internal cam track on the far left of the knotter stack, the other is on the knotter drive attached to the knotter drive cog by the knotter shear bolt.

These marks should align.

If not:

Undo the main drive chain at the front of the baler or loosen it either enough to jump the chain or remove the chain. There is an idler sprocket with a tensioning bolt and the bolt through the idler.

Rotate the shaft that goes back as the main drive until the marks referred to above align or at most within 1/4 of an inch.

Attach if removed and/or tighten the main drive chain.

Retighten everything and check the needle penetration into the chamber.

Turn by hand and trip the knotter Have to get down and look up into the bale chamber. still having the baler turned by hand the needles should just start to go into the bale chamber when the teeth on the front of the plunger have passed the points of the needles, NOT BEFORE. The points of the needles should enter the chamber about 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch after the points of the teeth have passed.

If it does not then the needle to plunger timing must be reset.

There is a set of slots in the plunger that the needles rise up through.

If entering too early there is a wad of hay in front of the plunger that will contact the needles and break them.

Perform my practical test and continue turning the baler and ensure the NPL withdraws just before the crank arm contacts it.

Unfortunately I have to leave now for a 40th birthday party, no not mine, that disappeared in the rear view mirror of life a long time ago. If you need the procedure to reset the needle to plunger timing put up a post and I will give that on my return.

The 5070 should be good to make some more little wrapped up neatly tied presents for stock.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Coondle that was a very good explanantion but I have done all that but what is happening during the tying cycle the knotter latch is disengaging half way through the tying cycle the needles of course stop in the chamber and of course the safety latch stops the plunger. It is not shearing the knotter shear bolt the latch in the clutch just comes disengaged.I hope that I am explaining this where it can be understood. Clear as mud?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Here is some additional information from NH

*Shim the drive latch (part number 86502134) to ensure contact with clutch for the full revolution of the knotter clutch. Latch (part number 86502134) as referred to in the bulletin, has been been installed on all balers since 1994

If the concern continues, the problem may be the result of concentricity between the inner and outer clutch component castings. This would result in relative movement between the latch and the pawl assembly as the components rotate together. Replace both clutch casting assemblies (part numbers 848844 and 848847).*

The latch is the plate with the concave ramp bolted to the hub. There are no shims listed in the parts book and no mention of them in the service manual, so it appears you will need to make one. After installation be sure you turn the baler over by hand with the knotters tripped to make sure it unlatches correctly. It will be a trial ane error deal but I would think it will help your situation. At the very least it will be less expensive than replacing the assemblies.

Since the needles are up, if timing was an issue, you would shear a bolt on every bale the knotters attempted to tie. Granted a slightly out of time baler or a misadjusted needle safety latch could casue sporatic shear bolt failures, the needles would not make it to the top before the shear bolt failed. They would either be just entering the chamber or just exiting the chamber. Any other time would shear the bolt on every bale.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Mike for the info havent thought about the shim but I will try it and see what happens thanks again because I was pulling my hair out on this one. Try to bale somemore hay next week with it and I will let you know. I did replace the latch and that did help,baled 300 before it done it again which is better than it was. Thanks Again


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## HayBalerTech (Jun 15, 2015)

I have a simple question. Is the little spring in place on the knotter clutch pawl? If this spring is missing then it will still let the knotters engage and go through part of its cycle before it "jumps" out and disengages. 
Just a simple check that I would do first. I believe the NH part # is 18 for this spring


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks haybalertech that spring is on there


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I just re-read your original post and in it you say that the roller just engages half way. Do you mean it only drives for only a portion of the tieing cycle or do you mean it only engages the latch half way? In other words is the roller contacting the inner surface of the drive hub when the knotters trip? If it not making full contact with the latch, then you may have some casting residue where the driving dog pivots. I have seen where the castings are not perfect and the leg of the dog hangs because of some material still in the corners causing the dog to hang.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Mike I mean the needles go about half way or all the way to the top and then it disengages I think the roller does engage all the way,I didnt type that just right


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## northern Ohio baler (Sep 28, 2014)

Anybody figure this out I am having this problem and it's to the point where my dad parked this baler


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I would replace the two castings as stated in post 4.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Since this is a 2 year old machine, I would would be highly inclined to think that what mike10 has posted about replacing the two castings of the clutch is correct. I have zero experience of any kind with New Holland's small balers, but the problem of what we call a knotter "clutch skip" can plague the D1000 which I am very familiar with. Basically the clutch pawl is striking the latch but instead of remaining engaged it jumps over the latch and leaves the knotter sit mid cycle and the result is a needle safety incident.

In resolving this issue on the D1000, it appears that the root of the problem is slop in the clutch system, which can originate from a number of places.

First of all, the clutch pawl (47) needs to move completely smoothly on pin (51). Pin (51) must not be loose or broke. Roller (49) and bushing (48) need to be free but snug on pin (50). Check bushings (43) for excess play. Check latch (45) for wear. These inevitably wear from the disengagement of the knotter cycle. Spring (54) need to be doing its job. On the D1000 I have added a second spring inside the original to help control the pawl. Be sure the knotter brake is at spec. Better too much brake drag than too little, for sure on the D1000s. The other thing to look at is looseness in the drives to the knotter clutch. Not sure if this can be an issue with the small balers, but can be with the 2x3 as the drive is a very long 60 chain.


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## northern Ohio baler (Sep 28, 2014)

I ordered the latch only. The two casting s have little to no wear on them. I'll have to keep everyone one posted when I get back together. Thanks for the help


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Good luck Ohio baler we replaced both castings and it helped some he said it would bale good for a while then start doing it again but I havent heard from him this year so it is either working right or he is just replacing shear pins,I have thought later that maybe the knotter shaft could of moved a bit when they were milling the key ways but the best I can remember this problem didnt start until about the second year he had it and he did buy it new


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