# Our school district likes to spend $



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

This is a f$&*^#@ joke.$2.3M to house 32 buses.Over $70,000 per bus.And they think it is going to save them money.It was up to the bus co to provide there own bus storage before this.

http://www.dglobe.com/content/new-completion-date-set-district-518-bus-garage


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Sweet Jesus that's a lot of cash for a machine shed.... Least they expect to have it paid off in 20 years. Wow Cy, all I got to say is wow.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

It puts BTO domes to shame.I don't even think it has any cupolas,lol.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Someone is making some good money there.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

They got a contractor lined up? Shoot, they are gonnamake out big! Depending on the spec book that is.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Wow! Must be nice to have such generous tax payers.

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> Wow! Must be nice to have such generous tax payers.
> 
> Ralph


We voted a new school bond down last winter.They slid bus shed threw without a vote.They said they had the money to do it.Then they turn around and say we need more money for a new school.I think its time for some new board members.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Throw the bums out!!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Gearclash said:


> Throw the bums out!!


One of the board members has new paint disease.At the local Case IH dealer they use your last name on the trade in listings.He traded one tractor in with 60 hrs.The 2 tractors,combine and planter he traded in are listed over 1M that's not counting other stuff he may have traded in.

We own property in 3 different school districts and this one is by far the highest taxed.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Yep, insanity abounds when talking about ways the government spends our hard earned tax money. We like to complain about Washington, but the locals are often no better.

My school district went through a construction phase in which they would build a new school and abandon the old. We have an extra 1% sales tax called a SPLOST (Special Local Option Sales Tax) which goes directly to the schools. They treat it as free money and spend it needlessly. Meanwhile, the past couple of years, they have been cutting back on the number of school days and docking the teacher's pay in what they call "furlough days". All in the guise to save money.

And before you ask "why don't they use the SPLOST money to pay the teachers?" Well, it seem that you can only use SPLOST for capital expenditures. Operating funds come from property taxes and the state. So, what you have is one bank account overflowing with money and the other bouncing checks.

Only the government.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I wonder how much of that $2.3 million was for permits, engineering reports, lot infrastructure and such. My church is in the process of planning a new school building and almost half the costs seem to be in site preparation.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

A church and a public school are not comparable. am would assume there as here in most cases labor and contractors if they have some affiliation with the church will discount their services.

On the other hand in a government situation they charge that much more and then some.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Our school district here wanted to build additions to both the elementary and high schools cuz they are running out of room. And the middle school, which has capacity for 450 students is used for the district office (2 employees) and ECFE (10 kids). They closed it to "save money on heating", yet they still heat it and don't have the body heat of 400 people to help. All the while, my wife, a special education teacher, literally has her "classroom" in what was the janitors closet when I went to that school 25 years ago. Dumb dumb dumb dumb


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

It just goes to show, you can't fix stupid. Rant over.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> A church and a public school are not comparable. am would assume there as here in most cases labor and contractors if they have some affiliation with the church will discount their services.
> 
> On the other hand in a government situation they charge that much more and then some.


That wasn't the point. My point was half the costs were lot preparation, permits and the like for the church school. Before the actual building costs were brought in. In this article I wonder how much of the $2.3 million was just for the building site.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Walkerton, the next town over, just built a new municipal center. So all town offices, police and EMT's are in one building now for the "convenience" of the town people. First thing I thought is its not a good thing to have all your eggs in one basket in case of fire, tornado or other natural disaster. Second thing I thought was how long will it take our town to decide they need a new building as well? No matter the excuse used to convince our town's people, it comes down to Walkerton has one, now we need one.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

RockmartGA said:


> Yep, insanity abounds when talking about ways the government spends our hard earned tax money. We like to complain about Washington, but the locals are often no better.
> 
> My school district went through a construction phase in which they would build a new school and abandon the old. We have an extra 1% sales tax called a SPLOST (Special Local Option Sales Tax) which goes directly to the schools. They treat it as free money and spend it needlessly. Meanwhile, the past couple of years, they have been cutting back on the number of school days and docking the teacher's pay in what they call "furlough days". All in the guise to save money.
> 
> ...


Tried to do that here ESPLOST they called it.....voted that sucker down

Then they went for TSPLOST (transportation) .....voted that sucker down too....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan said:


> That wasn't the point. My point was half the costs were lot preparation, permits and the like for the church school. Before the actual building costs were brought in. In this article I wonder how much of the $2.3 million was just for the building site.


In MY area, you'd have all those expenses you mentioned above plus:
Feasibility study
Environmental impact study
Noise pollution study
Rainwater runoff study
Relocation of bog turtles and maybe spring peepers
screech or barn owls impact study
5-10 meetings with township solicitor at $250/hr. 
By then, 500,000 of the 2.3 million would be gone and nothing will have been built.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Jd- I must say even though I admire your free rent deals on hayground : I do not wish living there on my worst enemy. Waaaaay to liberal for my tastes.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> Jd- I must say even though I admire your free rent deals on hayground : I do not wish living there on my worst enemy. Waaaaay to liberal for my tastes.


I agree, but my county actually is very conservative, went red for 2012 election. PA also has republican governor.
Also, my land isn't really quite rent free. I have to mow edges, clean up fallen trees, etc. it ends up costing me as much as the acreage fees you Have. None of my customers were coerced into having me to hay their property. They called me and asked me to hay their property to eliminate their field mowing costs. 
IMO, that sounds like they got a great deal, not me. In fact, one of my customers got his property tax bill reduced by $20,000/yr by having me hay his land. In his option, I'm a hero to him. 
Not trying to come off defensive, but I do cut their land 3x/yr and help them maintain edges and driveways they would otherwise pay for.

It's a great place to live, but we have burdensome environmental regulations.
Aren't you in Al Frankin country?


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> I agree, but my county actually is very conservative, went red for 2012 election. PA also has republican governor.
> Also, my land isn't really quite rent free. I have to mow edges, clean up fallen trees, etc. it ends up costing me as much as the acreage fees you Have. None of my customers were coerced into having me to hay their property. They called me and asked me to hay their property to eliminate their field mowing costs.
> IMO, that sounds like they got a great deal, not me. In fact, one of my customers got his property tax bill reduced by $20,000/yr by having me hay his land. In his option, I'm a hero to him.
> Not trying to come off defensive, but I do cut their land 3x/yr and help them maintain edges and driveways they would otherwise pay for.
> ...


We maintain around our fields edges and perimeters as well. When a tree falls over we have to deal with it too. Also when it comes time to pay the landlord it doesn't matter to him whether you plant corn or hay, the price is the same. I'd say you are getting a pretty good deal. No offense implied.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Same here, pay rent and still have to maintain lanes, mow water ways, cut up down trees, fix tiles, pick rocks and keep fencerows trimmed back.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes. Unfortunately he was.good enough and.smart enough and people like him. Not I though.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

deadmoose said:


> Yes. Unfortunately he was.good enough and.smart enough and people like him. Not I though.


Bustin a gut! thanks for the laugh! I hope 3430 sees the intended humor!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

barnrope said:


> We maintain around our fields edges and perimeters as well. When a tree falls over we have to deal with it too. Also when it comes time to pay the landlord it doesn't matter to him whether you plant corn or hay, the price is the same. I'd say you are getting a pretty good deal. No offense implied.


None taken. I'll remember how much I'm taking advantage of these multi millionaire landowners when I'm cutting their house lawns on a Sunday rather than spending time with my family instead of paying rent.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Working Sundays was a guarantee with the dairy.

Most of the time I work seven days a week anyways, so if a landlord needs something on a Sunday isn't a big deal.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm talking about mowing a customers lawn on a Sunday or snowplowing their driveway at 3 AM for free to "pay the rent" that some of you think I'm stealing is not my idea of "working on a Sunday". 
Heck I'll spray, cut, Ted, rake or bale hay 7 days a week, but using my lawn mower or other equipment to take care of non farm customer property? Thats a different story. 
Oh, screw it, if some of you think I'm taking advantage of a customer, I don't really care. I know they're getting a good deal and that's all I care about.....


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> I'm talking about mowing a customers lawn on a Sunday or snowplowing their driveway at 3 AM for free to "pay the rent" that some of you think I'm stealing is not my idea of "working on a Sunday".
> Heck I'll spray, cut, Ted, rake or bale hay 7 days a week, but using my lawn mower or other equipment to take care of non farm customer property? Thats a different story.
> Oh, screw it, if some of you think I'm taking advantage of a customer, I don't really care. I know they're getting a good deal and that's all I care about.....


I don't recall you saying before that you mowed their lawn for free or snow removal.

The way I took it that they didn't have to pay for the bush hogging of the hay meadow that you now bale.

And that you would also like them to pay to spray,fertilize and lime the hay meadow.

Going to be a huge difference if you have to mow a 5 acre yard every week all summer for your free hay.

Tradeing services or labor is nice but someone is always on the short end of the deal.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I do snow plowing for a few as well, especially the older ones that don't need to be out in the cold, not gonna happen at three AM though.

Nobody ever said your taking advantage of some customers, although it sounds like you might be letting them take advantage of you if they come to expect all these freebies while they don't have to pay to have their lots mowed like before you started making hay for them.

Just near impossible for me to wrap my head around getting "free" hay ground for mowing it. Most hay ground around here goes for the same as row crop ground and none of that is anywhere near "free".


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I'm talking about mowing a customers lawn on a Sunday or snowplowing their driveway at 3 AM for free to "pay the rent" that some of you think I'm stealing is not my idea of "working on a Sunday".
> Heck I'll spray, cut, Ted, rake or bale hay 7 days a week, but using my lawn mower or other equipment to take care of non farm customer property? Thats a different story.
> Oh, screw it, if some of you think I'm taking advantage of a customer, I don't really care. I know they're getting a good deal and that's all I care about.....


Wouldn't it be easier to pay them rent and tell 'em to mow their own lawn? That way you'd have an expense to write off instead of a landowner to be upset with.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Ground is the same deal here. Hay is free if you maintain the ground. No one farms anymore. The ground just grows up in trees. I turned down 100 acres that was offered to me as its 12 miles away, I felt bad for the old fellow but I'm over extended already. He didn't want to pay to have it mowed. Drove by the other day and he's had it all planted in pines.

Within 5 mile radius of me there is probably 1/2 the tillable acres there was 20 years ago even. If I wasn't farming, 20% of that would be gone within 5 years.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Wouldn't it be easier to pay them rent and tell 'em to mow their own lawn? That way you'd have an expense to write off instead of a landowner to be upset with.


I'm not upset with anyone. 
I have more free time than rent money. You pay rent, I barter. 
Bartering is a very old system that works quite well. 
You roll your way, and I'll roll my way.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Ground is the same deal here. Hay is free if you maintain the ground. No one farms anymore. The ground just grows up in trees. I turned down 100 acres that was offered to me as its 12 miles away, I felt bad for the old fellow but I'm over extended already. He didn't want to pay to have it mowed. Drove by the other day and he's had it all planted in pines.
> 
> Within 5 mile radius of me there is probably 1/2 the tillable acres there was 20 years ago even. If I wasn't farming, 20% of that would be gone within 5 years.


Pretty much the same way here. Some of those who dislike or don't understand why I don't pay rent live in areas where agriculture is still king and a way of life. I'm one of the few people left in my area who farms. I'm in an area where farming is an overlooked oddity. Its an area where its not easy to find someone to cut your land for free. 
Not everything I mow or snow I plow is free. I have a good number of people who chose to bush hog many acres of fields and pay quite a bit for it. They probably don't even know what hay is.
I have about 8 parcels I hay and I try to help them out with some freebies to avoid cutting rent checks. I'd rather barter than pay rent.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

A lot of the ground I'm currently doing is rent free due to the fact that no one else would mess with the small patches I'm doing. Honestly this ground would not be worth paying rent on. But all the ground I do whether it is rent free or rented I have to keep the land up.....that means keeping trees trimmed back, plowing their garden, bushhogging the edges. I have gotten to the point where I would rather rent decent land than these free rent small patches. By the time I figure it takes to make all the turns in the small patches, road travel for a few acres here and there, and all the edge around the woods where it doesn't grow well I would be better off to pay rent on decent ground. I do think the fields that were severely neglected when I took over and took a small fortune in admendments to get them growing should be rent free for at least a certain time period to compensate for the extra money I had to spend.....however I don't have a problem paying rent after the land starts producing.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> I don't recall you saying before that you mowed their lawn for free or snow removal.The way I took it that they didn't have to pay for the bush hogging of the hay meadow that you now bale.And that you would also like them to pay to spray,fertilize and lime the hay meadow.Going to be a huge difference if you have to mow a 5 acre yard every week all summer for your free hay.Tradeing services or labor is nice but someone is always on the short end of the deal.


I do have a couple VERY wealthy customers who will chip in and help me with lime or pay me to spray. I think the thing that's overlooked here is I'm talking about people who have possibly tens of millions. Paying me to spray their 20 acre field is like one of us fishing 2 quarters from the map pocket for a pack of gum. 
One guy offers to help me with fertilizing because I saved him about $20,000/yr in real estate taxes as a way to say thanks. 
Another guy will put $500 into lime per year because I bush hog a bunch of weeds around his property, keep no trespassing signs posted, chase off little punks in their jacked up diesel pickups looking of a place to have a field party, etc. 
I'm old enough to know when I'm taking advantage and when someone's taking advantage of me.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> A lot of the ground I'm currently doing is rent free due to the fact that no one else would mess with the small patches I'm doing. Honestly this ground would not be worth paying rent on. But all the ground I do whether it is rent free or rented I have to keep the land up.....that means keeping trees trimmed back, plowing their garden, bushhogging the edges. I have gotten to the point where I would rather rent decent land than these free rent small patches. By the time I figure it takes to make all the turns in the small patches, road travel for a few acres here and there, and all the edge around the woods where it doesn't grow well I would be better off to pay rent on decent ground. I do think the fields that were severely neglected when I took over and took a small fortune in admendments to get them growing should be rent free for at least a certain time period to compensate for the extra money I had to spend.....however I don't have a problem paying rent after the land starts producing.


Yep, I took a lot of crap land loaded with multi flora rose and blackberry stickers and put personal time and money into them. If I hadn't, they'd be useless patches of vacant land overgrown with stickers and beer cans. 
If I get those rent free, they look 100% better and that's not worth land rent, then I don't know what is. I bet it would have cost thousands to rehab. In fact, the landowner has the power. I could rehab land at my cost until its productive, then he could throw me off for any or no reason and charge the next guy rent.

Now if I'm taking over land that's producing 3-4 tons an acre of pristine stuff, that's a different story. Rent would be a reasonable expectation.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If you works for you JD then keep it up, just if you were cutting people a rent check, it's deductible as an expense is all. Not sure how you'd expense out a barter deal.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Alot of the ground here is done on halves, I suppose that's the same as a barter system....works for a lot of folks, don't work for me, but for a lot of folks it does.

But what the hell does any of this have to do with a school district spending money like drunken sailors?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> But what the hell does any of this have to do with a school district spending money like drunken sailors?


huh?? this isn't the barter versus rent thread? R U sure?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry if I was part of the "off topic-ness" problem. Just answering the questions thrown at me about my "rent free farming".......again.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Related to the bus shed, here they are all parked out side. The service/repair is done via vehicle management that service all gov heavy vehicles. The buses are rented to the districts. 1 gov garage serves all gov vehicles for about 300,000 pop, maybe 20 bays total including the light vehicles. Buses are only a fraction of the vehicles.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> One guy offers to help me with fertilizing because I saved him about $20,000/yr in real estate taxes as a way to say thanks.


Just wondering why such a huge tax saveings?I know every state is different.

Here you get a credit on farmland if you farm it yourself or your children farm it.I'm not sure if it goes any farther to say grandchildren??


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Could be when it's just being bush-hogged it was taxed at a higher rate but by actually making the hay of it they consider it farmland again which is taxed lower?

Indiana has it somewhat backwards, residential property if I recall is 1%, farmland is 2% and business or corporate is 3%.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Here if you keep land farmed the assessed value of the land is much higher than woodland and because its considered commercial the rate is double residential owner occupied rate. You can apply for 100% tax deferral if kept actively farmed effectively saving the taxes. If you plop a house on the land you have to pay the 20 years back taxes. This is to prevent developers from holding farm land on speculation.

You can sell into the same program to keep land farmed as well ie the owners can change without paying back tax if kept farmed.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Owner had property zoned as one gigantic building lot and was paying me a lot to bush hog it. Only one house could be built on it, he had no open space tax breaks. I suggest he opted for ACT 515. To qualify you need to show a minimal income each year from farming. If you can do that, they'll lower you property tax rate 90% after appeal. He got it through and got taxes lower by about $20,000.

Wonder if he'd have the set of [email protected] to ask me pay "rent" after I gave him that advice and helped him with the farm income to get his taxes lowered????

Now maybe some will have an easier time understanding why I don't pay rent ( on that property, anyway).

My other 2 bigger parcels both called me and said "you mow my place free and you can keep the hay". 
Maybe I should have said "naaaahhhh, I'll pay you $50/acre just because I feel guilty" lol


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Owner had property zoned as one gigantic building lot and was paying me a lot to bush hog it. Only one house could be built on it, he had no open space tax breaks. I suggest he opted for ACT 515. To qualify you need to show a minimal income each year from farming. If you can do that, they'll lower you property tax rate 90% after appeal. He got it through and got taxes lower by about $20,000.
> Wonder if he'd have the set of [email protected] to ask me pay "rent" after I gave him that advice and helped him with the farm income to get his taxes lowered????
> Now maybe some will have an easier time understanding why I don't pay rent ( on that property, anyway).
> My other 2 bigger parcels both called me and said "you mow my place free and you can keep the hay".
> Maybe I should have said "naaaahhhh, I'll pay you $50/acre just because I feel guilty" lol


I'll give you my PayPal address if ya want....then you'll be helping out the poor and destitute (think right-off) and have a warm and cozy feeling cause you paid rent....win/win


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

WOW, 90% huh? Here in Indiana they seem to treat all land as if it's up for sale for development when they access it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Up to 90% I should have said. If its tillable farmland, you'll likely get the full 90.
If its woods, or not farmland, you might get 40-50%.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

You folks who get their hay ground rent fee will think I am plumb crazy, but I'll come right out and say I have a 100 acre hay field I am paying $325 per acre for rent on that particular piece. When hay won't compete with corn and soybeans economically, it'll get plowed up.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

barnrope said:


> You folks who get their hay ground rent fee will think I am plumb crazy, but I'll come right out and say I have a 100 acre hay field I am paying $325 per acre for rent on that particular piece. When hay won't compete with corn and soybeans economically, it'll get plowed up.


Is there something else going on here that I am missing? At $325/acre, does that include lime, fertilizer, spraying, etc? Otherwise, using 5 ton/acre yield/year, this puts the base cost at $65/ton.

Figuring $40/acre per cutting for mowing, raking, baling and 3 cuttings per year, this adds $120/year/acre or, again at 5 tons/acre/year, adds another $24/ton to the costs.

Total becomes about $89/ton base cost--about $2.25/sm sq or $45/1000# round bale.

No labor, storage, etc., or fertilizer costs(if not in the $325) included in my calculations.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's why I won't pay rent to grow grass hay unless its a phenomenal producer or its alfalfa.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> Is there something else going on here that I am missing? At $325/acre, does that include lime, fertilizer, spraying, etc? Otherwise, using 5 ton/acre yield/year, this puts the base cost at $65/ton.
> 
> Figuring $40/acre per cutting for mowing, raking, baling and 3 cuttings per year, this adds $120/year/acre or, again at 5 tons/acre/year, adds another $24/ton to the costs.
> 
> ...


Fertilizer,Lime and chem would be on top of the $325 per acre.Plus mowing the landlords ditches and maybe cleaning his yard of snow.LOL

150-200 per acre for fert,lime,chem.For me anyway.

Here in all of the cornbelt rent is determined by what corn/bean ground will rent for.We can grow any of it on the same ground.If the local BTO wants to bid ground up and break even on it that is what you have to pay or you will not be farming it,usually.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Fertilizer,Lime and chem would be on top of the $325 per acre.Plus mowing the landlords ditches and maybe cleaning his yard of snow.LOL
> 
> 150-200 per acre for fert,lime,chem.For me anyway.
> 
> Here in all of the cornbelt rent is determined by what corn/bean ground will rent for.We can grow any of it on the same ground.If the local BTO wants to bid ground up and break even on it that is what you have to pay or you will not be farming it,usually.


Using the 5 tons/acre/year yield number, and not knowing what kind of hay crop you're growing, this adds another $30-40/ton, bring your costs before labor, storage, etc. up to $120-130/ton.

A few years ago, I figured my "all-in" costs at $140/ton using a typical yield of about 4 tons/acre.

My concern in your numbers would be the extras like shredding, snow removal, AND yield. I use 5 tons/acre in calculating your base costs. Should your yield drop to 4 tons, you cost per ton goes up to $150-160/ton plus the other expenses.

Keep us posted on yield--I'm curious how it works out.

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Well for me anyway,I'm not barnrope ,but know him pretty good and we have similar operations.He is east of me 2 hrs.

I am not paying $325.But I could get that or more for rent.

Depending on the rain and the season temps hope for 6 ton acre.these cool springs have shortened up growing season and effects yield.also winter kill or damage the last few yrs.

I don't have any hay storage and to be honest it would not pay in my operation so that holds some costs down.HERE its hard to get pd much of a premium for inside hay,they should but won't so why have the extra expence.


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