# New farmer needs advice



## rjbaustian

I am not really new to farming, as I have been directly and indirectly farming my whole life. Its a long story. I am renting 38 acres from my father in law that has sand on it, and another 8-10 acres of my own to put hay on. Here in Western Il, there seems to be a growing market for hay, for horse people. I have baled on and off ever since I was able to ride the rack, and I love baling hay. I also have two small boys that I want to experiance this in a few years. I am having a hard time figuring out what to buy. I have decided to rent an accumulator for next year instead of buying it, to keep my costs down at 1st, and then the second year buy it. I really like the Kuhns accumulator. We have always, ALWAYS been 100% JD, but they are so expensive for that damn green paint. What do you guys recomend? Ive been looking at the 336's and 338's right now in the $4-8000.00 range. Is the Deere worth it? Im willing to buy something else if its reliable and easy to work on. Every time someone around buys anything else, Grandpa has always said "That Piece of crap wont tie!" and hes been right every time. Since some other farmers around have heard I am doing this, I have also potentially picked up an additional 25-200 acres of custom work with it. What do you all think?


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## rjmoses

Where are you at?

Ralph


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## rjbaustian

Moline,IL area.


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## Nitram

Western Illinois? Please add state in profile it will help with responses. Martin


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## rjbaustian

Im looking at a heston 4570 in Ohio for 6500 that looks really sharp. Has a thrower that id have to pull off though


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## rjbaustian

Nitram said:


> Western Illinois? Please add state in profile it will help with responses. Martin


Oh im sorry, I will try to add that now.


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## gradyjohn

Between the 336 and the 338 I would go with the 338. It has more on it like extra hay dogs. Don't know about other brands. Some of the farmers around here have New Holland. This is wire tie country. There are basicall only 3 muanufactures left. Massey, New Holland, and JD. Who is your closest dealer and what is his track record? Talk to some locals.


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## rjbaustian

Nearest Dealers are JD. I am 15 min from the JD world headquarters...Thanks for the advice. Why do they still wire tie? I thought they stopped doing that in the 50's....thats not a dig, thats honest.


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## gradyjohn

Horse people down here want wire. My next one will be twine. I've had wire balers since 1975.


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## swmnhay

I sold a JD 336 for $3500 8 yrs ago.If you look around I'll bet you can get a good baler less then 4-8K.Not many wire ties around and some customers would frown on it.

Beware of the horse hay market.Get pd cash.Maybe accept Credit Cards.NO CHARGING.Checks can bounce also.

No one from JD headquarters is going to come out to fix your baler.Alot of dealers don'y know shit about hay eq.Check around,see what other farmers say.Maybe a dealer that has alot of hay eq on lot?Farmers will go to where they get good service for thier hay eq.


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## rjbaustian

swmnhay said:


> I sold a JD 336 for $3500 8 yrs ago.If you look around I'll bet you can get a good baler less then 4-8K.Not many wire ties around and some customers would frown on it.
> 
> Beware of the horse hay market.Get pd cash.Maybe accept Credit Cards.NO CHARGING.Checks can bounce also.
> 
> No one from JD headquarters is going to come out to fix your baler.Alot of dealers don'y know shit about hay eq.Check around,see what other farmers say.Maybe a dealer that has alot of hay eq on lot?Farmers will go to where they get good service for thier hay eq.


Oh I know no one is coming from there. I was just giving a reference point on where i am located. Thanks for the info. I was thinking cash with the horse people also....heard a lot of bad stuff....


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## Vol

Swmnhay is right...ask around and see who gives some quality service on equipment in your area. The Hesston baler is a good machine(if cared for) and its a inline which I happen to strongly favor....lots of advantages to a inline. There are good and bad horse customers just like any other type of customers.

Regards, Mike


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## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm

I agree with swmnhay. I have 2 JD dealers about 15 miles from me, one north and one south . One knows nothing about hay equipment and carries a very limited supply of parts, and the other has some knowledge and carries quite a few baler and forage/hay parts - and they are both a part of the same dealer group. If you do all of your own maintenance it usually isn't a huge problem as long as you have access to the tools needed and the tech manuals. Whoever you go with, setup an online account and get your equipment schematics setup and ready to go. It will save you a lot of time to be able to look up your own parts and tell your dealer what part # you need when you call rather than trying to describe it over the phone or having to stand behind the counter looking at his online schematic . Also, (with my JD dealers here, but not my NH dealer) with an online account you can check your dealer's inventory for a part 24/7 and order it online if he doesn't have it in stock.


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## Teslan

In my opinion Deere is fine for tractors, row crop equipment, but I don't like the design of the balers. The only JD balers in this area are about 30+ years old. Don't discount NH or Hesston just to have a JD baler. I don't see tying as an issue between the baler manufacturers. I just don't like the idea of that large auger that JD balers have. I'm quite confident it would plug up alot on our hay. knotters I think are pretty much the same similar design across all baler makers.

I've visited the JD world headquarters and walked around the park like campus a couple years ago when a friend of mine lived in Moline. Cool campus. Interesting building design of rusting metal. The museums are interesting also.


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## rjbaustian

Im looking at a Hesston 4570 right now, looks clean as heck. What advantage is the inline? I am not like my grandpa! haha...but, the old bugger has been right quite a bit....The world headquarters is a very neat building. My wife works there so I am able to go back in the office area, and the atrium is very neat. Our boys enjoy visiting the show room floor quite a bit.


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## Vol

One can pull a inline down the road in one lane, the cut side of the bale on a inline is on the bottom so when flat stacking the bales can breathe(have to turn on edge with conventional baler to breathe), navigate in the field one heck of alot better, you can make a sharp right turn if needed, makes a beautiful bale....especially in 2nd or later cuttings, most gentle on alfalfa of any baler.

Regards, Mike


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## rjbaustian

Ok, those points all make complete sense. Do you know anything about the Hesston 4570? I have no idea of the age, or anything. It looks clean, very clean actually. Says the pickup was just rebuilt. I know a lot about combines, very little about balers. The paint on this even looks great. They want 6500 for it, which is in my price range, and seems fair.


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## rjbaustian

And thank you all for your help and imput btw


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## Teslan

It's my own personal opinion, but I don't really like Hesston inlines for grass hay. When I had one and if I had any green spots in a windrow it would really pack that green spot tight in a bale where the new holland and I think probably even the JD balers would break the green spot up better before going into the chamber. Hesstons are better for alfalfa, but you have to be careful going around corners because if too much hay gets in the little augers on each side of the pickup they will plug up. I never had that trouble with grass hay, but I did baling alfalfa with dew moisture. You just have to be careful and watch how you corner and they will be fine. You can also bale faster with a hesston inline then a new holland, but it has to be perfectly in time to do that. And yes you can navigate much better in the field. Down the road for me hasn't been much different, but our new hollands have a hydraulic tongue that can swing the NH over to center it behind the tractor. In the end I prefer New Holland small square balers for what we do. I couldn't tell the difference in the bales between the two brands. Oh one more thing that is good about the Hesston is it has a really short bale chamber so it doesn't take as many bales to adjust the length.


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## Vol

Teslan says, " Hesstons are better for alfalfa, but you have to be careful going around corners because if too much hay gets in the little augers on each side of the pickup they will plug up. I never had that trouble with grass hay, but I did baling alfalfa with dew moisture."

I have always wondered about that Teslan....I have not experienced this happening a single time....have any of the other inline folks in your area also experienced this? Just real curious why this would happen. Very puzzling and I have asked several inline users about plugging in corners and no one has had this problem that I have spoken with.....not saying that it does not happen, just have not found anyone that is familiar with that scenario. Another thing for me is when I rake I don't keep circling the field with the rake. I rake the outside about 6 rounds and then start raking back and forth so I am not turning corners while baling the entire field as this works well with my bale accumulator. I also bale alfalfa with some dew moisture and have not had any problem plugging in corners because of dew moisture.
I have plugged the chamber twice baling the outside double rows in first cutting grass hay when the baler took in a green slug, but since I bought a Rotary rake, this has not happened at all.

The knock on John Deere balers is the auger and it being difficult to unplug, but it was not that big of a issue with me when I used a Deere.

The knock on New Holland balers is the "banana shaped bale" that can happen, but I understand this can be remedied by paying attention to windrow consistency, which sometimes is not easy to attain.

No perfect balers are created by man.....the main thing for you rbaustian is to find a used baler that has been dry stored and cared for....sounds like the Hesston you are describing may have new paint?? If so I would check it out closely, get the serial number and contact Hesston to find out what year and see if it is possible to speak with the previous owner. New paint tells me that either it was heavily used or that it was left outside. Of course if it has been taken really good care of the paint will look good. There should be some paint missing in the pick-up area though and on the inside of the bale chamber unless it has bale skiis.

It is best to buy a used baler "off the farm" when possible. You should have plenty of search time between now and next hay season.

Regards, Mike


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## NDVA HAYMAN

rj, Since your wife works for" MOTHER GREEN," do they have like a friends and family deal on purchases like Ford and some other companies?


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## somedevildawg

That's what I would look at, employee discount. The long and short of it, new holland, John Deere, basically the same machine, the Deere has an auger to feed the chamber and has Greene paint, very few other diff. Both good machines when properly timed. Massey ferguson (Hesston) is a completely diff design, but a damn good one, new idea, challenger, Massey, Hesston all the same basically. Again good machines, my favorite for all the reasons stated above. 6500 is a great price, the price will most likely not have hit the bottom as this is not hay season. It is a good time to be buying tho, lot of dealers, realizing that they probably won't sell their hay eq till next spring are willing to take a few dollars less in order to move it now, you didn't mention whether you'll be baling grass or alfalfa. Some balers are better with the alfalfa...Massey makes the 1837, excellent for grass, the 1839 excellent for alfalfa, good luck on you eq purchase, you've chosen a good time of year to buy.


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## rjbaustian

Ha ha no! I wish! They do if you buy lawn mowers and small things like that though. Doesnt amount to much, but its something.

The Hesston I am looking at doesnt have new paint, it just looks like it was really taken care of well...What I am getting from you guys is pretty much all balers are good(Brands anyway), but they all have their issues. Come down to service for the most part. I plan on doing as much as I can myself. When I was younger, thats how we did it, and the older my dad has gotten, the more he uses the dealership. Costs him a ton of money that he doesnt need to spend. I bought a JD 1219 conditioner from a guy I know. Ive heard they arent the best, not the worst though. He takes really good care of his equiptment, and its a start for me.


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## carcajou

Regardless of brand choice, if at all possible try out any used baler before buying it. If it is on a dealers lot more so. No fun buying someone else's problems and then finding out when your ready to bale.


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## rjbaustian

I dont plan on baleing much grass....there will be some for sure, a waterway here and there, but not much other than that. I am leaning more and more towards this Hesston. Problem is, its in Ohio, 8 hours away. Not many balers here in corn country.


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## Teslan

Vol said:


> Teslan says, " Hesstons are better for alfalfa, but you have to be careful going around corners because if too much hay gets in the little augers on each side of the pickup they will plug up. I never had that trouble with grass hay, but I did baling alfalfa with dew moisture."
> 
> I have always wondered about that Teslan....I have not experienced this happening a single time....have any of the other inline folks in your area also experienced this?


I only cut about 3 rounds around the edges of the field. Alfalfa doesn't get raked or moved from the windrow here unless it gets a lot of rain. Around the edges is where I would plug the little augers when going around a corner. And with pivot sprinklers there are lots of sharp corners around the edges as you cut each section of the pivot in separate smaller fields so you don't drive over the pivot tracks.. This also only happened it seems at night with some dew moisture and when it was 3 in the morning and maybe I wasn't paying as much attention as I should. My cousin has had the same complaints with his hesston. I haven't really talked to anyone else. But spending a half an hour in the middle of the night unplugging the thing was sure a hassle.


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> This also only happened it seems at night with some dew moisture


I would strongly suspect that might be the underlying reason for your plugging issues. I have never baled at night as the Eastern dews and humidities will prevent this for me, but I know that night time baling is very common practice in the dry western states. Always wanted to give night time baling a try to see what it was like and I would love to be able to not have to touch the windrow after mowing.....that would be a real blessing.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

Yep that is it. Always night. But we don't have that hesston anymore. Traded it in on a new holland. That wasn't the biggest issue we go rid of it though, but what it did to green spots particularly in 3rd cutting in grass that was the biggest reason we traded it.


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## rjbaustian

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7179471

this is the one I am strongly considering buying. I am guessing the kicker comes off, with a little work. There are a few closer, but not as nice. I have looked at the JD's around, and they want more money for something not as nice. My plan is to rent the Kuhn accumulator for the 1st year, and the JD 1219 condition I bought cheaper. Get an older cheaper rake, and by doing this, I think i can spend a little more on a good baler. What do you guys think? Ive also considered buying an average big square, and not doing any small bales...but thats a lot more of an investment.


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## Teslan

Looks ok. Why are the knotters different color then the machine? I wonder if they had been replaced? Does the attachment on the flywheel run the bale thrower? Do you need tedders in Illinois?


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## rjbaustian

im not sure about the knotters, but I suspect youre right. As far as the fly wheel goes, Im not sure either. I havnt called about it yet. I dont know if we NEED tedders, but I can tell you I have no idea what they are, or what they do ha ha...


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## Nitram

4500 delivered and work it from there... you have the season on your side and thats a long drive. Good luck it looks nice. Martin


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## Nitram

rjbaustian said:


> im not sure about the knotters, but I suspect youre right. As far as the fly wheel goes, Im not sure either. I havnt called about it yet. I dont know if we NEED tedders, but I can tell you I have no idea what they are, or what they do ha ha...


Untill I joined H T never knew of them either. Starting to see them more out here now


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## rjbaustian

what do they do? What is the advantage? same as a rake?


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> Yep that is it. Always night. But we don't have that hesston anymore. Traded it in on a new holland. That wasn't the biggest issue we go rid of it though, but what it did to green spots particularly in 3rd cutting in grass that was the biggest reason we traded it.


That never has been a issue(green spots) for me in third cutting as I ted my hay after mowing so it is very evenly dried.

Regards, Mike


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## rjbaustian

Vol said:


> That never has been a issue(green spots) for me in third cutting as I ted my hay after mowing so it is very evenly dried.
> 
> Regards, Mike


But why? Why do you do that? what does it do? do you have to rake it as well?


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## Vol

You ted hay to spread it out for more even and faster drying. If your hay gets rained on you can ted it when the sun is back and it will help about it drying much faster. For many in the Eastern U.S., a tedder is a necessity. Some do not use a tedder, but it certainly will dry hay faster. Here in the East, once the hay is dry then you rake it like normal procedure. Here is what I consider the Rolls Royce of tedders....Krone.

http://www.krone-northamerica.com/english/krone-produkte/rotary-tedders/kwt-trailed-rotary-tedders/

Regards, Mike


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## Whistling Dixie

RJ,
I run a Hesston 4590, one step up from the 4570. They're great balers and $6500 is not a bad price. I can guarantee the knotters are not original and the entire pick up has been rebuilt. One should assume it's seen a lot of hay. I paid double that for my 4590 however it was in near perfect original condition with less than 40,000 bales. I run mine exclusively in grass hay and don't have any issues. I've only plugged it once when I first got it and was learning how to feed it. Keep a few sheer bolts handy during the bonding phase, after that you will rarely break one. I can't say enough good things about the inline design. Assuming the bearings, knives, bale chamber, etc. are in good condition I think $6500 is a good buy. Did I mention I drove 600 miles to get mine? Good luck


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## JD3430

rjbaustian said:


> I am not really new to farming, as I have been directly and indirectly farming my whole life. Its a long story. I am renting 38 acres from my father in law that has sand on it, and another 8-10 acres of my own to put hay on. Here in Western Il, there seems to be a growing market for hay, for horse people. I have baled on and off ever since I was able to ride the rack, and I love baling hay. I also have two small boys that I want to experiance this in a few years. I am having a hard time figuring out what to buy. I have decided to rent an accumulator for next year instead of buying it, to keep my costs down at 1st, and then the second year buy it. I really like the Kuhns accumulator. We have always, ALWAYS been 100% JD, but they are so expensive for that damn green paint. What do you guys recomend? Ive been looking at the 336's and 338's right now in the $4-8000.00 range. Is the Deere worth it? Im willing to buy something else if its reliable and easy to work on. Every time someone around buys anything else, Grandpa has always said "That Piece of crap wont tie!" and hes been right every time. Since some other farmers around have heard I am doing this, I have also potentially picked up an additional 25-200 acres of custom work with it. What do you all think?


Far as the baler is concerned, I owned a 336 and it never tied right. I did clog the auger. Seemed like the JD had to be driven slower. I traded it for a NH311 and it bales much better and faster, too. In the hay biz, you will always be thinking about rain. Sometimes a faster machine can save your ass. I bet I baled 5 times this summer with rain clouds moving in and rain only a few hours away.

I think JD makes great stuff, but NH has been in the hay making business longer than anyone. Paid $3,500 for a very good NH311. Added bale skis.


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## Vol

Whistling Dixie said:


> RJ,
> I run a Hesston 4590, one step up from the 4570. They're great balers and $6500 is not a bad price. I can guarantee the knotters are not original and the entire pick up has been rebuilt. One should assume it's seen a lot of hay. I paid double that for my 4590 however it was in near perfect original condition with less than 40,000 bales. I run mine exclusively in grass hay and don't have any issues. I've only plugged it once when I first got it and was learning how to feed it. Keep a few sheer bolts handy during the bonding phase, after that you will rarely break one. I can't say enough good things about the inline design. Assuming the bearings, knives, bale chamber, etc. are in good condition I think $6500 is a good buy. Did I mention I drove 600 miles to get mine? Good luck


I agree with Dixie....I have a feeling that baler has had alot of hay run through it. Try to find one off the farm...maybe check Craigslist. You have six months to find a baler. Nothing worse than to buy something, find out it does not work as expected, and then spend additional monies on repairs. Bad way to start a new courtship.

Regards, Mike


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## rjbaustian

Ive been looking on Craigslist. I most likely wont buy this one if you guys think its had too many bales through it. Part of why i want to buy now, is going into winter is the right time to buy. I most likely wont find a hesston on craigslist around here. This is corn country. Mostly JD, and a few NH sprinkeled in...I dont mind the drive to get it, gives me an excuse to see some country, take a buddy, and drink some beer haha....I really appriciate you guys imput. I dont know a ton about baleing...I baled quite a bit as a kid, for this area.....We did have 900 acres of straw to bale when I was in High school, when deere came out with the 8000 series tractors at our place....


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## Vol

rjbaustian said:


> Ive been looking on Craigslist. I most likely wont buy this one if you guys think its had too many bales through it. Part of why i want to buy now, is going into winter is the right time to buy. I most likely wont find a hesston on craigslist around here. This is corn country. Mostly JD, and a few NH sprinkeled in...I dont mind the drive to get it, gives me an excuse to see some country, take a buddy, and drink some beer haha....I really appriciate you guys imput. I dont know a ton about baleing...I baled quite a bit as a kid, for this area.....We did have 900 acres of straw to bale when I was in High school, when deere came out with the 8000 series tractors at our place....


Would not worry too much about finding one real close....might cost you an extra $500 or so to have one shipped, but it could be worth it to get a baler thats in peak condition. When you find a good baler, use the shipping factor in your final negotiation to get a few hundred more off if possible. Hesstons(MF/Hesston) are alot easier to ship than JD & NH because of the width and ease to get on a trailer.....you will not go wrong with a inline.

Regards, Mike


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## rjbaustian

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7292203

This is what I am leaning towards. Not near as far of a drive. A little more than I want to spend, but Id rather spend more now and get something in better shape, then be fixing and trying to outrun the rain. Even though it still happens. Thoughts on this model of Hesston? I plan on putting up 15 to 20K bales per year, and if this works, add another 30-50 acres next season.


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## Starvation Plantaton

Like the others have posted- this machine looks to have been over a lot of ground. The knotters don't look original and you said the pickups been rebuilt, plus fresh paint. This would make me wary of 'Lipstick on the pig'.
Just my 2 cents.


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## simangus

go with the hesston try to find a 4590 , hydraulic tension , hydraulic pickup. with an inline one needs to get these balers right up or slightly above the the 540 rpm if not thats where shear bolts come in handy. I bale heavy timothy and clover with a new holland 6640 tractor and havent broke shear bolts in years. rpm is the key.


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## somedevildawg

rjbaustian said:


> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7292203This is what I am leaning towards. Not near as far of a drive. A little more than I want to spend, but Id rather spend more now and get something in better shape, then be fixing and trying to outrun the rain. Even though it still happens. Thoughts on this model of Hesston? I plan on putting up 15 to 20K bales per year, and if this works, add another 30-50 acres next season.


Hell for that kinda money I'd just as soon have a new one....10 k for a unit that's 24 yrs old....buy a new one for 18k......
That seems high but if it checks out....and I mean checks out....perhaps it's worth 8k. Ultimately it's worth whatever someone will pay for it....looks good although wish we had a pic of knotters....


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## triabordofarm

In regards to the green paint, my JD 328 square has been the most reliable piece of equipment I have aside from my tractor. A good one 15 years old will run 4-$6000. When I buy used equipment I look for well greased zirks, fresh and full oil in gearboxes, no rust (stored inside), and replaced parts where they wear out the fastest. New paint scares me. They are covering up something.


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