# Sheep market climbing a little.



## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Uncle got a call from the buyer today wanting to know if we had any >60# lambs. Paying $2.45/lb and $2.40 lb for >#60 lbers.
Maybe the price has been back up for awhile as I don't check prices until I have some to go? Neither uncle or I had any; dad had ½ trailer load for him; so they are separated, tagged, and ready for the buyer to pick up in the morning. I have never had him pick them up before and have always taken them to him (@100 mile round trip), so the "deal" is even better than normal.

Best prices I've seen in about 4 years.
Maybe demand will be even better come Easter time when mine will be ready.

73, Mark


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Just got back from NZ, haven't had a chance to look at lamb prices yet. Are they getting weighed at your place then onto the truck? Definitely a good price then! Going to have a little bit of shrink on a 100 mile trip but still should fetch a good price.

These wooled or hair sheep? Not many people have 60# lambs this time a year so that is your biggest help.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

They were not weighed at my uncles. The buyer lives close by and owns the stockyard in another town. He just backed his trailer up to mine and we ran them across. I weighed on the way to my uncle's and again empty (because I trust NOBODY) and his weight was within 1% of the net weight that I had calculated (after allowing 8 lb per gallon of fuel burned between scale and uncle's etc). I wasn't too clear...the shrink would have only been on about 50 miles as I was considering the 100 miles as the round trip savings....and actually only about 35 more miles from my uncle's to the yard.

My uncle's, dad's and my sheep are all hair sheep. Dad's has more Barbados Black Belly in them as his buck is full Barbados. The ewes are a mix of Katahdin, Dorper, Barbados. The Barbados are usually not a very big sheep with a low birth weight. I always say, with Barbados Black Bellies, if you lambs are too small and you miss the good Easter market this year, they'll be big enough next year. They are not quick gainers once they hit 40 pounds or so. Most of the Barbados ewes won't even weigh much over 80#. We usually shoot for the 30-50 lb market at the ethnic holidays. These avg'd 53 (if I remember) and were probably 8-10 months old.
How was NZ...gorgeous I assume?

73, Mark


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

What kind of market is there for sheep? My wife's family used to be big in purebreds but most of their lambs went for 4H projects. I personally know nothing about sheep and my wife doesn't know marketing of them but she's very well versed in raising them. I see it as a way to diversify even more than I have already but it's not any good if sheep aren't profitable. If this is the wrong thread to ask this on I can start a new one but any info is very much appreciated.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Until someone else can expand on the information, I will provide some limited to my operation.

First, while there is profit to be obtained, it is dependent upon inputs.

My sheep (ewes) get a little more than a pint of corn (whole kernel...or better yet, still on cob) daily and all they hay that they want. I figure 1 small bale of hay per 10 head for 180 days (20 head would need 360 bales to make it thru my normal winter) or 1 big bale per year per head (20 head would need 20 bales). I also have mineral blocks out for them. I figure 2-3 mineral blocks per year per head. That is the MOST of my inputs not including fence, cover, water, tank heaters, hay feeders, etc... So, when corn was costing me $12 per bushel to obtain aflatoxin free corn, profits were awful slim. I just bought corn for $3.85 a bushel last week, so things are a little better.

For round easy figures, I plan to get $100 per lamb when they reach 40-60 lbs. WIth my herd, I can safely figure 2 lambs per ewe per year. Twins are common, but so are singles. Gestation is 5 mos 4 days, so I figure on 3 lambings in 24 months per ewe. I am on track to get over 4 lambings in 24 months, though. I am about to the end of my lambing right now and most of the ewes have lambed 3 times in 13 months..the rest have lambed twice already. So, some ewes have had 6 lambs in 13 months...or an estimated $600 income (not net profit) from those particular ewes. Don't forget to figure that lambs just want to die sometimes; I figure to lose 5-10% of my lambs to death. My ewes, for the most part, will get old and cease profitability...sold for 50-75 cents a pound, sometimes less.

I raise "hair sheep" (that does not really get quotation marks, but I wanted to emphasize that they are different than wool sheep) Hair sheep are known as a meat sheep and demand a small premium over wool sheep from my buyers.

The sheep that I raise and sell are mutts and I have not attempted (nor do I foresee) to enter the pure bred market. When raising for meat, the market is ALWAYS there. I know that my buyer takes on Mon, Tues, and Wed of every week, pays on the spot according to the scale and will tell me the price before I load and deliver. I've waited a month or two before for a recovery in price. Holidays also play a big part in the demand side of the equation; Greek, Jewish, Muslim and other religions prescribe lamb for certain feasts. It literally pays to know when the holidays occur and sell accordingly (usually 2 weeks before the holiday)

Lamb/mutton is imported into the US from other sheep producing Countries, so with that, I would logically conclude that there is a market in almost every area in which sheep can be sold and shipped to a processor.

There is also a local market (much the same as selling a 1/2 beef or whatever to local buyers) which is more finicky and harder to enter. I have a couple of customers that buy from me and have them butchered at the local processor.

I will attach 2 photos from the market report in "SHEEP!" magazine. Hopefully they will orient correctly.

















Bottom line, to me, I believe there is more profit in sheep than moo-moos and less danger associated with size of the animal. I think a moo-moo can kill someone on accident. For a sheep to hurt you, it nearly has to be purposely; depending on the shepherd's physical strength and agility, a sheep can be man-handled when needed and have to do a sneak-attack to overpower someone and get them to the ground.

Boy, my blathering is all over the place!

Ug...sheep good..ug

73, Mark


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

So you sell lambs at a pretty light weight? Do you have much grain invested in the lambs or do they mostly eat hay pasture and nurse? Thank you very much for the info. That was way more than I expected.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Growing pains said:


> So you sell lambs at a pretty light weight? Do you have much grain invested in the lambs or do they mostly eat hay pasture and nurse? Thank you very much for the info. That was way more than I expected.


Yes, I do tend to sell at a light weight.
The Easter/Passover market has a higher demand for 30-50 lb lambs (which, theologically, calls for a milk fed lamb for the Jewish community, so therefore the weight slot. Disclaimer: I'm sure there are people of Jewish faith that can set me straight, and I make no claim to know your religion better or at all). Whereas, during that time, a 30-50 lb slot might pay 2.50 per pound and 50-70 might be 2.25 or less. So a 48lb lamb (my buyer pays avg weight if none are too far out of line) will fetch $120 and a 53 1/3 pound average would also pay $120. There are other "seasons" in which the sweet spot is 50-70 and/or 50-80 lb for lambs. With the larger frame wool sheep, the weight is reached quicker and might surpass the weight target in a month or so. I have smaller framed sheep and most take nearly a year to reach 80lbs.
I usually don't feed the lambs corn (although I do have a creep coral in the event that I am pushing them to hit a market sooner), but the start eating a little bit their mothers; they also nibble hay. The grain they eat is a small amount...less than a cup each, so when there are a bunch of lambs on the ground, I tend to go to nearly a quart of grain per ewe per day. Once pasture is green, they get nothing except mineral block. Many shepherds will not feed grain at all because the sheep will do just fine on hay, but I do feed corn and have a happy flock. Sheep also have a very efficient stomach; very little if any corn is wasted thru them. Actually, "they" (whoever "they" are) claim that sheep should not be fed ground corn as their stomach is too efficient and they can digest it too quick and can get lactic acidosis---dead! A sick sheep is a dead sheep.
During grazing, sheep are very low maintenance; I rarely ever have to water them. They have it available, they just don't drink; they get all they need/want from the dew and moisture in the grass.

Another reason I shoot for the 30-50 lb market, sheep want to die. The longer I keep them, the more pasture they use and there is more of a probability of additional deads.

...and as much as I am talking about dead sheep, my sheep (I believe) are still way hardier than wool sheep.

Short reply would have been sell at the light weight/high price-per-pound market and don't feed much if any additional corn or hay.

As I got done typing this, I remembered that you wife has previous knowledge...I reckon I was bumpin' my gums for no good reason.

73, Mark


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

Definitely good info. Her knowledge and experience are with polypay sheep mostly for 4H purposes. Her parents were pretty big in the breed for over 20 years but they didn't really try for profit and I'm not big on feeding an animal other than my bird dog if it's not going to at least cover its own expenses. That being said I'm not going to starve one bc it's less profitable this year than last just don't want to get into something that won't at least make a little money. I like the idea of light weight to get them sold faster and before they croak at a higher price as well. My wife would have been feeding them to show weight of 120+.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Growing pains...lots of good polypay flocks over your way. I shear large flocks around there and that seems to be the breed of choice. To keep a reply small, I'm not sure why the hell people have cattle. Comparing average lamb price to steer price, it's unbelievable...maybe they just want to feel like John Wayne:

Lamb finishing weight: 60 lbs Steer finishing weight: 1400 lbs

(These weights may differ depending on producer's market)

*5 ewes = 1 cow*

This equation is done using only grassfed for simplicity. Not accelerated using grain.

*Lambing percentage: 1.8 lambs/ewe Calving percentage 1 calf/cow*

Cow produces 1 calf. Finishing time for grassfed 1400 lbs steer is +/- 24 months. Marketed at price $1.33/lb *1400lbs =* $1862 gross profit in 2 years*

5 ewes lamb in 1 year producing 9 lambs. Marketed at 60 lbs 4 months later at $2.25/lb = $135/lamb * 9 lambs =* $1215 in the first year for those 5 ewes * 2 years = $2430*

*+$568 more in raising lambs in those 2 years than a steer.*

Even more so, those lambs you are raising out will be on the farm for 1/3 of a year. Not 2 years like the example steer was.

Maybe I'm a fool though and don't know what I'm talking about, but numbers never lie.

P.S. - Some feedlot buyers will take those 60 lb lambs and take them to 120lbs finished if grain prices are desirable to do so. More ethnicities are wanting 60lb-80lb lambs.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The missed point from my experience with sheep is they are a lot more hassle than a cow. Pain to keep inside fences, pain to keep coyotes from killing, pain to catch if you don't have handling setup, pain to get through lambing in cold weather here. My sister had something like 60 ewes at one point, down to about 30 now. Had to add an alpaca to protect them but it's killed a couple of sheep too. The little border collies she has for catching the sheep are a pain in the butt when there is no sheep herding duty.

I'd gladly trade them all for a few cows!


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Very little hassle mate.

Woven wire fence, Great Pyrenees dogs, (won't keep off all coyotes but are certainly better than any useless llama or donkey), handling setup is a must, and lamb during conditions that you can manage....I lamb on pasture so I don't bother lambing during the bitter cold months. Some of my sheep buds take vacation during lambing. It all starts with getting stock from the right breeder/producer.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Ewe 259 ("Wollybugger") had twins on 12/14/2014, a single on 06/08/2015, twins on 01/13/2016 and was bred on 02/21/2016. 5 mos 4 days gestation puts her having lamb(s) again in July. That's an average of 3 lambs per year. So, if I get $100 per lamb (my normal minimum goal), that's $600 over 2 years from a single ewe. If one lamb dies, that's about a 15% loss over 2 years and a gross gain of $500, if a cow loses one calf, that's 100% loss.
I raise hair sheep, and as stated before, I believe they are much hardier. I don't have the cold that up north has, but mine do fine lambing down into the single digits (F) and I have selected ewes and bucks according to their ability to handle a worm load (1st) and their ease of lambing/mothering (2nd) and feet (3rd). I still have a ewe or two that I worm once a year maximum; I never wormed a single animal in 2014 and wormed 10% (maybe) in 2015 according to their eyes. I don't worm if they don't need it.
To me, sheep are WAY more self sufficient than my few moo-moos. I don't vaccinate for anything if there is no problem; that being said, I just vaccinated dad's whole flock Saturday for BC&D and will probably do my flock this week as a precaution. Don't get me wrong, I keep an assortment of meds on hand for possible stuff and do not neglect them if they are in need-- they just don't need much.
My biggest problem is very young lambs being stepped-on and hurting a leg. I don't separate the expecting ewes; they lamb wherever they see fit and do fine. Their instincts are far better than mine and I don't coddle them.
I have never foot-bathed them, don't have to shear them, etc... From spring to fall, I would never have to set eyes on them if I did not feel the need to check on them daily. I generally don't have to do ANYTHING with them during pasture growing season other than load the lambs into the trailer to trade for money.
I spent way more time thinking about my corral than I did building it. There is night and day difference working sheep in my corral than dad's. The corral layout is an absolute must! I have had the sheep in the pasture, sent the collie to put them in the corral (with they don't mine because they walk thru it to go into the barn everyday), sorted the ewes from the lambs, loaded the lambs into the trailer and was ready to take to the buyer. I did all that in about 35 minutes by myself; it went exceptionally smooth that time, but just a point.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into sheep, but that's just my experience and thoughts. Works for me. If I didn't want to eat grass-fed beef finished on non-gmo corn, I wouldn't even own a moo-moo.

73, Mark

PS, I just ran the numbers, the flock is at 3.41 lambs per ewe in past 15 months with the ewes breeding back right now. Averaged over 2 years, the flock should beat a 2 lamb/yr average.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

How do your lambs turn out (fat content)? The ones I had bought had entirely too my fat and not enough meat. Frying burger was almost like frying bacon as far as grease and yield.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> How do your lambs turn out (fat content)? The ones I had bought had entirely too my fat and not enough meat. Frying burger was almost like frying bacon as far as grease and yield.


Dunno, never ate one and don't intend to. Tried lamb once and didn't like it.

...but I would assume not TOO fat as they are a slighter build and are not grain fed once pasture comes on. It may take 6 months to make pounds. Like Jerry Clower said "what's time to a hog?" I'm in no hurry.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

The guy I bought mine from didn't eat them either...

It was great after trimming the fat. These were fed plenty of pelleted feed though.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

I had nearly 100 head of sheep I sold off nearly two years ago. On paper they make a lot more money that cattle but you pay for every cent of it. I had no problems with them getting out or handling them but the loss is not nearly acceptable. They seem to die over nothing. My cousin still has 30-40 head but he never has made any money with them, more of a hobby.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Lewis Ranch said:


> I had nearly 100 head of sheep I sold off nearly two years ago. On paper they make a lot more money that cattle but you pay for every cent of it. I had no problems with them getting out or handling them but the loss is not nearly acceptable. They seem to die over nothing. My cousin still has 30-40 head but he never has made any money with them, more of a hobby.


Wool or Hair?

73, Mark


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

glasswrongsize said:


> Wool or Hair?
> 73, Mark


Mostly hair, a few wool.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Lewis Ranch said:


> Mostly hair, a few wool.


Dad had wool when I was a wee little tadpole. Worst dang thing he ever owned...and his place looks like Noah's Ark! Mom says he is an "animal horder" 

...I take that back, he had a Jerusalem Donkey once. Mean lil so-and-so. He had a fair number of dead lambs until it found a new home. It was SUPPOSED to be a guard animal...yeah right!!

My uncle seems to have dead sheep all the time. He seems to be CONSTANTLY pulling deads out of the pasture. We don't have near the deads that he does. Knock on wood, I've only lost 1 ewe since last (2014 summer) and I tried to pull a huge lamb which had its head back. She didn't survive the trauma, nor did the lamb. I pulled 1 live one and bottle fed it. I'm at 6% loss of lambs this fall/winter. Not great, but normal. If not normal, it's what I have come to expect. The Barbados in them (I despise those heads-up-running, jumping, flighty, small framed things!!!) is what makes my herd "tougher" than some...I think. Uncle doesn't have any Barbados in his flock; dad has a lot in his; I have *just enough * to keep them alive, but not* so much* that I have to raise them in my quail flight cage.

I don't know what the reason that some people have good luck and some don't? Seems one's experience is either good or bad; there are not too many in between.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

haha I don't know how you can stand those Barbados...closest thing to a goat I've seen!  Hey no worries, whatever works best for each person is worth having.

Never was keen on hair sheep, love the wool sheep. $3-3.50/hd on fleece income makes it worth the while.

Eat lamb regularly, right along with the same amount of deer....not to be mistaken with mutton though. Shepards Pie, lamb burgers, leg of lamb, rack of lamb, lamb stew, roasts...wife does a hell of a job making the stuff!


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## Growing pains (Nov 7, 2015)

Mind sharing any corral secrets? I'm in the process of clearing old fencerows to build new fence and it sure would be nice to build everything once. I'd like to build something that would work for cattle or sheep since I already have cattle and would like to add a few sheep.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

There are assuredly better working and superior designs, but I based my design on:
1) the sheep travel thru it daily
2) as few corners as possible
3) straight shot into the trailer
4) incorporated pasture switching
5) incorporated creep feeding area
6) holding pen that could hold animals for a day or two if needed

That is about the best I can do with on the computer.









The arced gate is normally "open" to the center post of the barn, and is "closed" when I am going to work sheep. Most times, I will run the sheep into the barn, close the gate at the lower end, run the sheep back out into the corral, then close the arced gate. Clear as mud?

Either way, once the arced gate is closed, the dog and I walk all or most (doesn't matter) past the beginning point of the sweep gate, then I can start to push them into the working chute. I put 5-10 at a time in the working chute and work a batch at a time. The rest remain between the sweep gate and the working chute.
After I work them (worming, trimming feet, or just tagging to sell) they make the turn which is eased by the gate and go toward the sorting gate. I generally have someone hold it as a default to put the sheep into the holding pen, and can swing it the other way to let the to pasture. I default to the holding pen because, once all sorting is done, I can run the holding pen back thru the creep gate and resort if one or two got diverted that should have been sent to pasture.

To load out, I back the trailer to the end of the working chute and arrange the gates so that it is a straight run into the trailer...no turns when loading.

I feed hay in the barn and they sheep walk thru the corral multiple times a day are not shy of it.

I can switch the sheep between pastures by putting the sheep into the corral/barn and swinging the pasture choice gate to the other post and let the sheep back out. Viola- changed pastures.

The sweep gate swings/stores flat against the side of the holding pen.

Generally, I leave all gates open thru the entry to the barn and the working chute. The critters use either path to enter the barn and are not nervous of either area.

I doubt that I explained it well enough and will be happy to answer questions.

73, Mark


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Sheep sure are taking their swings during the Easter season. The second Mon, Tue, Wed before Gregorian ("normal") Easter, prices were 2.20 lb then dropped back to 1.80. Julian (Eastern Othrodox) Easter is April 24 and prices (for next Mon, Tue, Wed) are 2.30 for 40-50 lbs and 2.20 for 50-60 lbs.

So, I spent all day weighing my lambs then dad's lambs. Will try to haul Mon, Tues, or Wed; luck of the draw on my days off, but I didn't hit this week. Going to be get home from work and hit the ground running in an attempt to haul an hour to the market before it's too late.

Oh well, I work better under pressure. That's where my corral really shines. I can have the sheep in the pasture, run them into the corral, sort lambs, load lambs and be going down the road in 1/2-3/4 hour. I only have @ 60 head though that are already tagged and marked so that I know which one are going, so...

73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

I placed my faith in 2 young males to service my flock of girls. It seems they were probly to young and werent up to the task. The only lambs I got were already planted in the 2 does I got from the auction house. That pretty much helps me decide who is getting butchered and who gets saved as next spring's mothers. I might even pick up a few doe/lamb pairs at the auction since I dont have as many lambs running around like I wanted.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

olschoolsteel said:


> I placed my faith in 2 young males to service my flock of girls. It seems they were probly to young and werent up to the task. The only lambs I got were already planted in the 2 does I got from the auction house. That pretty much helps me decide who is getting butchered and who gets saved as next spring's mothers. I might even pick up a few doe/lamb pairs at the auction since I dont have as many lambs running around like I wanted.


Those 2 boys ain't walking around with EACH OTHER in tight pants and eyeliner are they? :huh:

I went to 2 bucks as well. They fight a little, but nothing drastic. I can tell that I am getting lambs out of each of them, but the unexpected plus is the fact that more a breeding back faster. With a single buck, I was averaging 1 lambing per year, but now I have about 1/2 of my ewes lambing 4 times in 20 months and the rest are 3 times. I reckon it's kinda like a cookie on the counter...you didn't realize you wanted it until someone else starts eyeballing it :wub: :wub:

73, Mark


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## olschoolsteel (Mar 6, 2016)

I think I found the problem glasswrongsize. I bought some shears and the wife and I went to shearing them in early June. The 2 males I have, they have a ball sack, but they are empty, on both of them. So it looks like I bought 2 whethers at auction thinking they were intact when in fact they are just empty sacks. Totally my mistake I guess. When you see them cross the auction block as lambs with a ball sack, you have to assume the reason the sack is still there is its holding something inside. Not as decoration.

I am wondering if they came from somebody's fancy farm where they had a vet cut out the testicles instead of banding them, like every other sheep farmer I have ever came in contact with. So needless to say they are going on the rail this fall or next spring.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

We cut all our lambs. Have banded before, but have missed a few over the years. Cutting there is no question if you got em.


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