# How fast do you cut?



## Hayman5555 (Apr 3, 2015)

How fast do you go when you cut hay? Tractor size and mower size.

I have a Kubota M7060 and Kuhn GMD500. I have cut at 5.4 mph but sometimes my disc mower rides up on the grass and just cuts the top of the grass (bermuda/bahia). I have to back up and re-cut, then move on. I usually cut at 4.8 mph. Just curious what others do.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JCB Fastrac 188HP and Pottinger Alpha motion 11' front mower @ 8MPH.

Slower on bad ground and fawns.

My ground usually sucks for bumps


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

JD6115D with GMD700 mower @ 7 mph or less depending on how rough the meadow is.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

NH 8670 paired with a H7450 13' center pivot. Just under what ever speed the air ride seat will launch me into the cab roof. We want our alfalfa speeds as smooth as a baby's butt. Usually shoot for 10 mph but have hit 12 in long fields.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Case Maxxum 115 with a New Holland H7450 13' center pivot, my coastal fields, 8-10mph. 
Most custom jobs are 5-7mph.

Cab suspension, air ride seat and powershift tranny all play into that though. Cut the same fields with a 7230 Deere and average 2-3mph less


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

'Bota 5040 will handle the Gehl 1162 disc mower @ 9mph (3rd high) and still cut acceptably ( I tried it ONCE for one pass, just to see if it would). I usually mow in the 5.x range in my "bigger" fields (which are still under 10 acres) and 4.x mph in my smaller fields. I find that my most limiting factor is making the corners...and you have a BUNCH of corners in a field that is shaped like blood spatter. :huh:

With my Gehl 880 sickle conditioner, I keep in low 4th...3.5-4 mph range. Disclaimer...I don't remember exactly the speeds, but those are close estimates.

73, Mark


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Bout 8mph.....JD 7200, 6400, 6420. Pulling 630 MoCo 
Bout 5mph ....." ". " ". " ". Pulling Claas 9' disc mower (3pt)


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## fe390man (Dec 30, 2014)

JD 7405 pulling 936 moco. 10mph first cut. 12mph after.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

JD 2940 w CaseIH 8370 4-6 mph based on bumps and crop


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

8mph to 12mph, first cut. Depends on how smooth and shape of the field is. 
CIH 105u (air ride seat  ). With a H7220 discbine.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Hmmm. My mower doesn't go as fast as your tractors. Top speed is 8 or 9 mph.

Deere 2320 windrower. Sickle draper with conditioner.

This year probably 4+. Been closer to 1 mph when rank and more moist. And a lot of clover was present.


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## oliver1850 (Jun 2, 2016)

oliver 1850 nh 499 4-5mph on our farm

neighbor farm i help out at jd 7320 h7450 discbines usually 12mph but i have hit 15mph on real smooth fields


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

'Farmall M and Hesston 1120 sickle based mower conditioner of (9' and 3") cut width: I usually travel at 4.3 mph. Couuld easily go a gear faster which would be 5.1 mph if I hooked up the hydraulics so I could easily raise and lower the cutter. Tractor has enough hp and the cutter could handle the speed if desired. That said, I typically run without a hydraulic cylinder so 4.3 mph is perfect speed for making the 90 degree turns on a roundy round mowing pattern similar to old sickle mower mowing patterns. I have no desire to try and make those sharp turns at 5.1 mph and with no live power or powershift enabling easy slow downs/speed ups then I simply run what I got for my comfort.

Farmall H on same cutter will sometimes handle 4.3 mph but it also also sees a lot of 3.5 mph in heavier sections due to limited tractor hp available.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I demand that all our fields are smooth I will have it no other way but we no longer running 10 and 12 mile an hour, because we have groundhogs that can dig a hole and I'm talking a massive hole and the Alfalfa can grow around it and you don't see it seems like if you hit one of those 10 mile an hour plus the chance of damage is so much greater than the 9mph . Plus we're on Hills. I think 9 is enough


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

7510 Deere with a 936 Deere usually 7 to 9.2 mph. I have cut a 13 on a long smooth fields. Usually you gauge it buy how smooth the field is, the Deere seems to do a superb job no matter how fast I run.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

JD 7405 and JD 830 first crop around 5.5 mph most of the time due to groundhog holes, rough ground (from grazing when damp) and shorter fields, if lodged a little slower as it seems to pick it up and make a better cut. Same with real heavy hay. Later cuttings I have got it up to 7-8 mph sure is hard going back to going slow...

Have used the 856 with the same mower in second cutting at 6 or so mph could've went a gear higher but didn't feel safe making sharp turns


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

With my kubota tractor pulling my kuhn 10 foot discbine. On smooth level ground can go 7-8 miles an hour but really sucks when I hit a rock. Than have to stop and change broken blades. So usually cut 5-6 miles an hour so when I hit a rock it rides over with out breaking blades. But on my steepest hills close to 2 miles an hour in thick crop just to have the power to go up. But than again talking close to a 60% slope.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

JD2030, krone 283S disc, my fields are a little bumpy.... 4-5mph.....


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Fast enough to get a clean cut.

Slow enough to keep from bouncing too much and tearing up equipment.

Ralph


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Hayman5555

If your disc cutter is skipping over hay at 5.4 MPH either the belts or slip clutch are slipping. I cut at 5.2 MPH because my fields are usually rough.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Allis Chalmers 200 pulling a 499 Haybine in 3rd low, which is 5.7 mph. 4th cutting I can usually go 3rd high.

Agco LT75 with the New Idea 5407 disc mower, about 6 mph. That's in bumpy ass road ditches though.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

NH 7220 when pulled by T5-115 (98 PTO HP), 10.3 MPH, if field conditions warrant. With NH TN70DA (about 60PTO HP), 7-8 MPH, tractor runs out of HP, if heavy 1st cut and 5% grade. At 11 MPH, T5, runs out of HP wit 1st cut on a grade also.

As I reseed fields I am removing some of the things that slow me down. Just last night I went to a funeral in one of this year's reseeding projects. Victim as about half the size of a VW beetle, had at least 12-15 kids close by (basketball or bigger size), along with numerous grandchildren (volleyball size, or their grow was stunted). She was just showing the top of her head in the field until I dug a deeper grave next to her and the unborn children. Her and the kids are buried below frost line now, digging her grave is how I found most of the offspring). Found Dad also (just showing his bald spot like me) about 50 feet away, dug him right out of the ground, did not have a hammer and chisel to castrate him, so push him on other side of electric fence into cow pasture, until I get a chance to castrate him (or sell to some city folk that want a decorative rock in their front yard) . At least I hope that I slow down the reproduction of rocks for a while and they will not raise back to the surface in MY lifetime.

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

White 2-110 pulling a NH1431 discbine, if I can't run between 8-11 mph then its time to no-till to corn, no-till to beans then start over on hay. Refuse to beat my equipment on rough fields.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Depends on the ground surface type grass.

100 HP Deere, 9"2' Krone disc mower.

Good smooth surface and I run 6.7 mph. Some fields are 5.2.

One field is 4.5.

I am not going to bounce my equipment.


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

I see most if not all these posts reference disc mowers. I use NH 488 pulled by JD 2755. 1st cutting I raise the sickle bar all the way up and travel at 4.5 mph. This leaves me about 5-6" stubble. Subsequent cuts, I lower the sickle bar to the second position, slow down to 3.5 mph to get a clean 3" cut. I mow alfalfa/OG. I tried going faster but the sickle bar just not give the clean cut preferred.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Hayman5555 said:


> How fast do you go when you cut hay? Tractor size and mower size.
> 
> I have a Kubota M7060 and Kuhn GMD500. I have cut at 5.4 mph but sometimes my disc mower rides up on the grass and just cuts the top of the grass (bermuda/bahia). I have to back up and re-cut, then move on. I usually cut at 4.8 mph. Just curious what others do.


Ford 5610S and Zweegers CM212 drum mower (7 ft. 2 in. cut) I run 6 mph (6th gear, 1900 eng. rpm, 550 PTO rpm). Will cut anything no matter how tall or thick, so long as the blades are sharp. Only time I have to drop to fifth gear (5 mph) is in bahia with dulling blades (bahia is like cutting steel-- darn stuff is tough and abrasive and seems to eat blades like nothing else. I hate bahia).

I've run a 5610S with a GMD-600-II (9 foot Kuhn disk mower) on it. Owner told me I couldn't run over 5 mph with it, but of course that was because the numb-nut setup mechanic at the dealership had the drive belts only tensioned HALFWAY... once I tightened up the belt tensioner to the correct level (end washer flush with the tube around the spring) I could run in 6th gear at 6mph all day long, didn't matter what I was running in. I guess the guy I was working for doesn't know much about how to fix stuff, because this particular 5610S had the front tires worn nearly slick, because they were toed in about 3 inches too much-- I think the same idiot at the dealer delivered the tractor after setting the front axles in to fit on his trailer like he asked them to do, but never re-set the steering linkage toe-in, so the tires were running SO pigeon-toed that it was visibly screwed up (like this /-\ literally!) I asked the boss about it and he said, "that's how they delivered it years ago" and after nearly having it toss me across the line on the highway, I grabbed a crescent wrench first thing the next day and reset the toe-in "by eye" and got it within a quarter inch of where it needed to be (when I got back later and grabbed a tape measure out of the truck and measured it).

Anyway, point is, I think if you have sharp blades and are running the tractor at RATED PTO RPM you should be able to cut at least 6mph. Dull blades take a lot of horsepower in a hurry and are hard on the mower, as well as leaving a more ragged cut and "riding over" stuff. Gotta get that horsepower to the cutterbar as well, and that's the importance of good, PROPERLY TENSIONED belts. Don't overlook that! Remember that disk and drum mowers are meant to be operated at FULL PTO RPM's-- if you're running at less throttle, they don't cut anywhere near as good because the blade tip speed is too low (although it is sometimes necessary to run at lower RPM's, especially on mo-co's that can blow a light/short crop down before the blades get to it). For regular 3 point hitch disk mowers, though, IMHO you should always run at full rated RPM's. Actually on a 5610S, engine RPM's for 540 PTO speed is actually 1800 RPM, but I run 1900, because the thing is actually always gonna be a little bit lower when you engage the PTO and clutch and are running through the field, plus being a little "over speed" doesn't really hurt anything (so long as it's not MASSIVELY overspeed) and gives you a little more "flywheel effect" to get through tough spots without bogging down the speed as quickly.

Works for me! Best of luck! OL J R


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

weatherman said:


> I see most if not all these posts reference disc mowers. I use NH 488 pulled by JD 2755. 1st cutting I raise the sickle bar all the way up and travel at 4.5 mph. This leaves me about 5-6" stubble. Subsequent cuts, I lower the sickle bar to the second position, slow down to 3.5 mph to get a clean 3" cut. I mow alfalfa/OG. I tried going faster but the sickle bar just not give the clean cut preferred.


Back when I had a sickle bar (NH Haybine), 4.5 - 4.7 MPH, ragged cut if much over that. Larry


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

CNH 1203 with a16' sickle averaging 5.7--6 mph. Brutal conditions at 3mph. Light 3rd crop at 7. Mower has 1800 acres on it. Guards and sections are in very good shape, hold down clips set to manuals tolerances. Running a 4" stubble.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Sickles can't run as fast a ground speed as disk mowers, period. At some point, you're going SO fast that stuff gets crammed between the sickle sections and they start sliding under them before the sickle cycles between guards and cuts it off, resulting in a ragged cut.

The old pitman-type machines were notorious for this, because the sickle speed was slow (of necessity) to keep the stick in one piece. When they came out with pitmanless drives, they upped the sickle speed (strokes per minute) A LOT, which increased the ground speed that the mower could travel at...

For instance-- running 6 mph, you're covering 8.8 feet per second. With a pitman-type mower running say 1000 strokes a minute, which is 16.6 strokes a second, that means the cutterbar is moving forward 105.6 inches per second, and cutting 16.6 times per second. That's 6.36 inches of forward travel per stroke... and a sickle section is only about 3 inches deep or so (length of the cutting surface from tip to knife back, measured perpendicular to the knife back). So, needless to say, with that forward travel speed, the first uncut grass is going to reach the back of the sickle and start sliding UNDER it a few inches before the sickle cycles and snips it off, resulting in a ragged cut.

Now say you're running a newer pitmanless drive mower or haybine (since they typically use the same types of pitmanless drive boxes), which typically run at about 1600 strokes a minute. Same 6mph, 8.8 feet per second ground speed. 105.6 inches per second ground speed, but now the sickle is cycling at 26.6 strokes per second. That works out to 3.97 inches of forward travel per stroke, which is about the length of a sickle section, roughly speaking... maybe a little longer, so maybe a "slight" ragged cut, but FAR better than the 6.36 inches of travel at the same ground speed with the slower sickle strokes/minute of the old style pitman mower.

Now, a disk mower is spinning at about 2800 RPM, typically. Most all disk mowers use 2 blades per disk turtle, though Vicon uses 3 per turtle. Anyway, assuming the same 6 MPH ground speed, 8.8 feet per second, 105.6 inches per second ground travel speed. With the mower running at 2800 RPM, that's 46.6 revolutions per second, and with 2 blades rotating at that speed, it means any point in the cutting path in front of a disk, there will be a blade passing that point 93.2 times per second on a typical two-blade turtle (139.8 on a three blade Vicon disk mower). That means that the mower travels 1.13 inches forward between blade passes in front of the disks on the cutterbar (0.76 inches of forward travel between blade passes on a 3 blade Vicon). Some disk mowers turn at more than 2800 RPM as well, some over 3,000 RPM (which would equate to 50 revolutions per second, or 100 blade passes per second). Even figuring a typical disk mower blade that sticks out maybe 2 inches from the disk (shorter than a typical sickle section), that's still a LOT more cuts per amount of ground covered than with ANY sickle. Sickles are inherently limited by the number of strokes per second they can endure without the knife breaking from the constant hammering back and forth... they can only go so fast before they "blow up" so to speak.

Later! OL J R


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have run 7 mph on later cuttings with my NH499, always kept good guards and sections in it though, and had the adjustable hold downs, sometimes 1/8 of a turn on the hold down adjustment nut was all it took to make a razor clean cut.


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

I cut with a Farmall 706 and a New Holland 469 Haybine. I plug along at about 3-3.5 mph. I did borrow my neighbors New Idea 5209 this year for first cutting and cruised at about 5.5 mph. Now I'm shopping for a disc moco!


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## rankrank1 (Mar 30, 2009)

Common accepted opinion by many is 6.5 mph is about the fastest practical limit that most brands of sickle based cutter is gonna cut and still do well (as with anything there is always exceptions). Anybody cutting above that speed with one then I would say is a dedicated expert in setting it up, keeping it meticously maintained and adjusted , and keeping things in optimum tip top shape (like new knives and like new guards at all times).

On the other end of the spectrum are the 1.5 to 2 mph folks who are often too cheap to replace the knives and guards when needed.. With a sickle there is also the scenario of going too slow that many people fail to realize. Going too slow causes the most issues on a sickle cutter alone. One needs enough speed so the crop falls behind the bar where going too slow it builds up in front of bar instead of falling behind. Even a haybine reel still has its limits on how much it can keep cleared in front of the bar when traveling too slow.

I run junk and antique low tractor hp as mentioned in my first post. 3.5 mph is my minimum speed due to lack of tractor hp on one tractor (nothing to do with the mower at all). 4.3 mph is easy to maintain when using my bigger tractor. I could also easily go faster with the bigger tractor but what I do is comfortable for the antique dinosaurs I am powering the mower with.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

As luke mentions, with our old sickle mower (pitman drive), 8n Ford, 1st gear, maybe 2-2.5 MPH (6 foot cut, hung from the apple tree when not in use during the summer, faster than horse drawn, maybe).

Up graded to pitman less 7 foot, cut speed 2nd gear (Ford 2000), 3-3.5 MPH (wow, was that faster and wider, thought we could real knock down some hay, but still parked it under the old apple tree when not in use, didn't need to hang had it's own stand).

Did cut a field one time in 3rd gear with the 2000 I guess at maybe 4.5-5 MPH (to get done in a hurry, to swim with the neighbor girls, a guy's gotta do, what a guy's gotta do :wub, man was it a ragged cut, go thing my Dad never seen that field (was 2nd cutting too).

Larry


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Deere 4255 and 1411 new holland. As fast as possible 8-14 mph depends on fields.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

Kubota M7040 with JD 630 MOCO , 7 mph cutting Bermuda on a very flat field. This tractor could not do this on hilly land but does fine on my flat field which is only field I cut.


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

Now you can see why if you are ever interested in a used disc cutter you had better do your homework.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

When I started with hay 6 years ago , a friend advised me not to buy a used disc mower. You just know how they have been treated. I sold my Tonutti disc mower which I bought new when I bought my new JD 630 MOCO. I took his advise you can see.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

We have too many acres to cover in too little time with our H7450 pulled by a John Deere 8200. On smooth fields we run in 14th gear at about 12-13MPH, but occasionally bump into 15th and run 16-17mph. on the 1/2 mile stretches. The finer the hay, the slower we have to go. 8-10 on the small fields.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

barnrope said:


> We have too many acres to cover in too little time with our H7450 pulled by a John Deere 8200. On smooth fields we run in 14th gear at about 12-13MPH, but occasionally bump into 15th and run 16-17mph. on the 1/2 mile stretches. The finer the hay, the slower we have to go. 8-10 on the small fields.


Lol, in other words....things are happening purty quick!


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

luke strawwalker said:


> Sickles can't run as fast a ground speed as disk mowers, period. At some point, you're going SO fast that stuff gets crammed between the sickle sections and they start sliding under them before the sickle cycles between guards and cuts it off, resulting in a ragged cut.
> 
> The old pitman-type machines were notorious for this, because the sickle speed was slow (of necessity) to keep the stick in one piece. When they came out with pitmanless drives, they upped the sickle speed (strokes per minute) A LOT, which increased the ground speed that the mower could travel at...
> 
> ...


How about for a Swather? I have a Renn 2000, swather. How many strokes, rouhly would the knife, make, in a minute. Also, I have noticed pictures, of knife sections, with the center, of the section, cut out, in the shape of a triangle, a d always wondered, what the difference, in between the standad knife section, and this type, of section. Would there be any benifet, with this style, of knife section? 
Also forgot to mention, Renn, was made by Mac Don, same as White, and the Massey Furgason 655, and 755, swather.


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

I cut with a Swather, 12 foot wide, and has a crimper. I usually cut as fast as the draper table will let me cut, withough plugoing the table. Some where's between 4, and 5 mph, depending on how thick, and heavy the hay is, and howrough, the land is.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Bruce Hopf said:


> How about for a Swather? I have a Renn 2000, swather. How many strokes, rouhly would the knife, make, in a minute. Also, I have noticed pictures, of knife sections, with the center, of the section, cut out, in the shape of a triangle, a d always wondered, what the difference, in between the standad knife section, and this type, of section. Would there be any benifet, with this style, of knife section?
> Also forgot to mention, Renn, was made by Mac Don, same as White, and the Massey Furgason 655, and 755, swather.


"I don' kno nuthin' 'bout no swatha's" (to quote one of my favorite lines from "Gone with the Wind"... LOL

Sorry.

Usually the strokes per minute of the cutterbar is listed in the specifications. That, or sales literature. It's usually a function of the speed that the wobble box is turned, depending on the design. Of course the more strokes per minute, the faster the ground speed it can run before it's "overrunning the cutterbar" (outrunning it, basically).

Not sure about the sections and stuff you mention-- having a hard time picturing it. Got any pics you can post or can you Google it and find pics to post?

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Bruce Hopf said:


> How about for a Swather? I have a Renn 2000, swather. How many strokes, rouhly would the knife, make, in a minute. Also, I have noticed pictures, of knife sections, with the center, of the section, cut out, in the shape of a triangle, a d always wondered, what the difference, in between the standad knife section, and this type, of section. Would there be any benifet, with this style, of knife section?
> Also forgot to mention, Renn, was made by Mac Don, same as White, and the Massey Furgason 655, and 755, swather.


Are you talking about those "end sections" that are basically two points on one knife section??

Basically you're doubling the number of cutting edges per section, which would spread the wear out for all the forage entering the gap between those two particular guards over twice as many cutting surfaces (on the sections anyway-- the guards still only have two surfaces unless you got "double-prong" guards with a short prong in the middle between the two guards). IF it is what you're talking about, I've seen them on combine headers-- they're advertised as reducing shatter, especially in soybeans, because it only shoves the stalk over half as far before snipping it off as the "full-width" sections. Plus doubling the number of cutting edges doubles the number of cuts per stroke, which SHOULD (theoretically) increase the ground speed capability (so long as stuff can still properly enter the gaps between cutting edges in the sections to be cut.)

Later! OL J R


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

glasswrongsize said:


> 'Bota 5040 will handle the Gehl 1162 disc mower @ 9mph (3rd high) and still cut acceptably ( I tried it ONCE for one pass, just to see if it would). I usually mow in the 5.x range in my "bigger" fields (which are still under 10 acres) and 4.x mph in my smaller fields. I find that my most limiting factor is making the corners...and you have a BUNCH of corners in a field that is shaped like blood spatter. :huh:
> 
> With my Gehl 880 sickle conditioner, I keep in low 4th...3.5-4 mph range. Disclaimer...I don't remember exactly the speeds, but those are close estimates.
> 
> 73, Mark


I would like to retract my previous answer.

That was BEFORE fertilizer. AFTER fertilizer, I mowed some second cutting tonight with the Gehl 880; 2.1 mph in the "light" stuff and 1.6 or 1.2 mph in the heavier stuff. THAT is as fast as the ole sickle conditioner would handle (and it has good knives/guards) Plugged the conditioner rolls at one point at 3.6 mph and that was enough to cure me of suckin eggs!!

I think I could have still mowed at 3.6 or 4.1 with the Gehl 1162, but it would have NEVER dried with out conditioning.

View attachment mowing.MOV










For all of the people that were like I was last year, "ask me about fertilizer"...I expect as much tonnage off of second cut as I got from three cuttings last year!!!! ...and already scrambling for storage that I had no idea that I would need.


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## MNfarmer (Jul 12, 2009)

NH H7230 pulled by an 80 HP John Deere at 9.6 when the fields allow, otherwise usually 7.5


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

John Deere R450 with 14.5 cut. Usually run between 8 and 10 mph.


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## E.Boman (Jun 4, 2015)

130hp on moco 7-9 avarage 12.5 tops.
100hp on 499 4.5 avarage 6.5 tops.


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