# New Holland 650 Clogging, and very hard to start a bale



## JD4020 (Jun 25, 2020)

New to me baler, looking for some tips on what is causing my baler to clog when trying to bale brome grass. I've done some research about the starter roller possibly being the issue, but wanted to hear what others experiences are with this baler. Baler would constantly clog up when trying to start a bale, once you got the core started it would eat just fine and make great bales. Also when it would try to start a bale, it would constantly spit hay out the top in front until a core was started or it would clog. I would get so much hay up there it would get behind some of the rollers and cause a belt to start to flip. Hay was maybe a little dry, but the best way I could get a bale to start sometimes was super low rpm, 900RPM or so and decent ground speed. If a core would get started, rpm up and speed up to normal baling. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

In MY neck of the woods, brome grass is extremely slippery the dryer it gets (could tell you a story about someone with a motorcycle and dry brome grass, some other day  ). So that isn't helping for certain. Secondly, 900 RPM, I wouldn't consider super low on a 1000 RPM machine. I have a 540 RPM machine that I've ran at 300 RPM or less. I don't think you would cause any problems dropping down to 700 RPM or less.

BTW, welcome to HT.

Larry


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## JD4020 (Jun 25, 2020)

Sorry I should have been a little more clear, the tractor was at around 900 rpm, the baler is a 540 pto. I just have a tac no digital readout, but pto speed is around 1800 rpm on tractor.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I wonder what your belt texture looks like? Could be pretty worn? Not unusual at all to need to greatly reduce engine speed when starting a bale in certain crops and conditions.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Sounds like a NH baler in dry brome. You can weld some bar stock to the floor roll and two sledge rolls if you have everything else in order and it still refuses.


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## JD4020 (Jun 25, 2020)

So if it was too dry, would that cause it to shoot hay out the top in front as well because it cant make a core? I seen a guy on YouTube actually peel away some of the rubber on the starter roller and weld in some bar stock as well. Do you guys think between welding on the starter roller and floor roller that would drastically make a difference?

8350HiTech, I don't think you could weld on the sledge rolls as those roll so close together, I don't know how you would be able to weld bar stock on that without them hitting.

Gearclash, there is still some belt texture there and it still is a little rough. It is definitely worn down some. I would have to compare to a new belt to really know how much is already gone though.

Basically it seems as though this baler is not fit for brome grass?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm not personally familiar with New Holland round balers prior to the BR series, so I defer to those who know more about them. If I owned your baler I would be looking at adding 3/16" round rods on the stripper roll. The problem you have is in part the hay slipping between the stripper roll and the belt, items 7 and 6 on picture. Picture is of a newer baler but the same principle.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Gear is right, 3/16 should work on the sledge roll. (Yes, if you are a novice welder, let someone else do it so that the new steel stays flat.) And if your dimples are worn, it will make a notable difference. The floor roll will take 5/16 or 3/8, I forget which off the top of my head.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

The floor roll almost certainly has 5/16” rods. It is worth noting that partway through the BR700A series, New Holland went to 5/16” square stock on the floor roll. I would imagine that could help feeding in certain conditions. I never noticed a difference, but I had wide pickup balers with stuffers so the floor roll isn’t quit so critical for feeding.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Wonder how that smooth roller will work with this.....


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

I have a 650. Weld those bars on now. Also if those belts are slick you will have headaches. Back in the 2011 drought I had the same problem with fescue, finally hired it done. Over the winter I welded the bars on the rollers and put JD style diamond belts on it and it turned into a completely different animal. One other thing make sure the sledge frame goes all the way down when the chamber is empty, sometimes accumulation between the frame and sidewalls prevents it from doing so and it is difficult to start a bale. Just my experience with it over 20 years, take it for what its worth.


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

The 650 is a good baler. I bought mine in 2000 and am still using it, but there is a learning curve that goes with it. I kick mine out at 4x65" and it is not uncommon to make 25-28 bales an hour with it. Yes it may be slow by todays standards but for those of us that make 200-1000 bales a year it's perfect. Take some time to tune it up and you will be happy with it.


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## JD4020 (Jun 25, 2020)

TJ Hendren, I attached an image of the NH 650 components, which rollers exactly should I weld bars onto? And also what size rods. I'd like to know exactly what you did. I had to also hire out the rest of my haying this year cuz it would clog about every other bale. They used a JD baler so I'm familiar with the diamond style belts, definitely more aggressive than mine are on the 650. I am a very small operation doing less than a 100 bales a year so it was very frustrating when this baler was not working for me when I was at it for 2 days and only got about 16 bales done. This baler would be perfect for me if I can get it tuned well for brome grass. Thanks


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My guess is roll "F" starter roll needs attention. That's the roller that I weld on/add extra rods on my JD rd balers to make them more aggressive when starting a bale.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I did E and J. F would be appropriate too except I have a bale slice baler so my F is completely different and not really in need of extra texture. I’ll check the steel size for sure later unless someone has it sooner.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Checked for sure, 5/16 on the floor roll and 3/16 on any dimple rolls that are worn.

Here is a public Facebook post with a really great job of welding bars to the sledge. If you can't view it I can share pictures from it. Credit will go to the baler's owner, TJ Steele.

Make sure to read all of the comments if you can see them. Lots of good info in the entire thread although there are some comments with people using larger steel than suggested that I have no idea how they have enough clearance for.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/237012536788906/permalink/601784606978362/


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

Do F,I and J, starter, middle and follower roll. I've never had any trouble with the floor roll maybe because of the belts. Be very careful it is easy to burn thru the rolls.


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## JD4020 (Jun 25, 2020)

Here are a couple pictures of my rollers, as you can see no bars have been welded on yet and the starter roller is a smooth rubber. I have a couple dents too. I noticed the sledge lifts up when I raise the tail gate but checked it does go back to original position when I put the gate back down. I plan to weld bars on soon.


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

JD 4020 here are the pics. 3/8 on the starter roll as I told you mine never had rubber and 1/4 inch square rod on the top sledge roll stripper roll. If you do the floor roll I would use at least 3/8".


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## Porky (Apr 14, 2021)

8350 HiTech has a link to a facebook page showing bars welded to the sledge stripper roll, sledge pivot roll and the starter roll. The starter roll on my 650 is rubber so not sure if bars should be welded to the pivot roll if the starter roll is rubber. Since the baler is new to me but still very used I'm trying to give it every chance to work at the start of hay season. Also thank you to all that have contributed to these discussions, its been very helpful.

Regards,

Porky


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If the stock you would weld to that roll wouldn’t contact the rubber next to it, go for it. Just have to crawl in responsibly and check your clearance.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I think someone may have changed out the stripper roll since I see no rods welded on that roll. The stripper roll and the middle roll are the same except for the rods welded on the stripper roll. It may also be possible the very earliest balers, 1992, may not have had the rods, but I don't think that is the case.

New Holland had a rod kit to add additional rods to the stripper roll for those balers. I doubt the kits are still available. Weld 6 or 8, 3/16, rods to the stripper roll. Pay attention that none of the rods are placed so they come across the seam of the middle roll at the same time.. There is not enough clearance for the rod to pass the seam of the middle roll.


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

One thing on the 650 that is very important, If the sledge frame does no go all the way down when the chamber is empty it will be very hard to start a bale it will have trouble rolling the core. There is a chain on the left side of the sledge frame connected to the baler, when the sledge frame is all the way down there will be no slack in the chain. Material gets logged between the frame and sidewall and prevents the frame from pivoting all the way down. Check this it is important. When i first got mine i had fits trying to start a bale and this was the whole problem especially if the belts are wearing down.


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## Porky (Apr 14, 2021)

Thanks for all the information. All very good points!. There are four 3/16" diameter rods welded to the stripper roller on mine. Just wasn't sure it was a good idea to add rods to the pivot roll since the starter roll is rubber. Now that I know it can be done I will add some. Thanks again.


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