# Size of Skid Steer needed for 10 bale grapple?



## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I have a skid steer on my wish list and intend to use it on a 10-bale grapple that is 8 with 2 ties and is @8' long from mounting plate to end of grapple. My bales tend to be 55 lbs and have not weighed the grapple.

I would like to know from experience how much capacity is needed to safely handle the grapple/hay on level ground. The specs of capacity will not readily convert to just weighing the hay and grapple due to leverage; I'm not good enough at math to figure it to my satisfaction.

I see 1845s and 743s etc around here fairly cheap, but don't know if they will do the job at hand.

I searched around on here, but didn't find my answer in previous topics.

Thanks, Mark


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

I used a NH 218L 60 HP 1800 lb lift handled a Kuhn 510 bale grapple with no problem. Skid steers don't load wagons high enough for us we use a JCB telehandler to stack wagons can go 6 high easy.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I am not sure on the exact answer.

Here is what I do know. I run an S300 Bobcat with a 15/18 pack and highlift and rotate on it. I have to run 300# of weight on the back panel and I have about that and then some in fluid in the back tires. Our bales run anywhere from 70 to 80 #'s. If I am not careful, I can still flip it on its nose.

The rotate feature puts it out from the cab a ways further than normal. That adds leverage in a hurry.

I would think that with a 10 pack of light bales and no high lift or rotate, a 2300 to 2500#/ lift machine should handle it ok.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

One more thing to remember if you are pairing used equipment, the pressure ratings of the Bobcat hydraulic system and the Cylinders on the grapple may not match.

The S300 has 3300psi if I remember correctly, and the cylinders that were on the grapple were only good for 2500psi. I learned that the hard way. The good news is that for about $140, by way of a PRV, it can be fixed.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Beav said:


> I used a NH 218L 60 HP 1800 lb lift handled a Kuhn 510 bale grapple with no problem. Skid steers don't load wagons high enough for us we use a JCB telehandler to stack wagons can go 6 high easy.


Thanks. After your post, I looked up a Kuhn 510 and I'll be danged... they list the minimum loader capacity (1500) lbs. I failed to check all of the different manufacturers for THEIR specs.

I assume your "1800 lb lift" is "operating load" and not "tipping load"...whatever that means? Both the 1845 and 743 appear they will be too small. The operating load is @1400 lbs and the tipping load is 2800.



Lostin55 said:


> One more thing to remember if you are pairing used equipment, the pressure ratings of the Bobcat hydraulic system and the Cylinders on the grapple may not match.
> 
> The S300 has 3300psi if I remember correctly, and the cylinders that were on the grapple were only good for 2500psi. I learned that the hard way. The good news is that for about $140, by way of a PRV, it can be fixed.


I would have never considered that. Thank you.

Mark


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Typically skid steer ratings numbers are about half of tipping load. The 1845 Case should be around 1750 rated if I am not mistaken.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I have been researching this same thing. I have decided when I finally get one it will not be under 2000lbs operating capacity. I am also thinking weights on it to compensate for the length of grapple. If I'm lucky enough to be able get exactly what I need it won't be under 2500lbs for a future upgrade.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

A couple things...

-A skidsteer at close to max lift will often continue to lift load but you can not tilt back. The tilt cylinders will hit pressure relief even though the boom will keep lifint. This would be very annoying when trying to tip up grapple to unload bales

-Skidsteers can lift fine on level or uphill, but facing slightly downhill and they tip front easy. Nothing more frustrating than lifting a load facing downhill and all of a sudden you crash forward smashing up what ever you are lifting...(totetank, bale over a gate, grapple with bales etc)..

-I would think a vertical lift machine would be much preferred although not required. A high stack on a radial machine puts the operator just about buried into the hay stack...

Just my thoughts...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mark,

I know how you feel. I can't wait to be able to afford to get a skid steer. I'm going to wait till I can get a rubber tracked JCB or Volvo to get the side door entry. Make mine a 2 speed so I can get around quickly. Might consider a small telehandler for even more speed and ground clearance. 
I like PA Mikes observation about the straight lift versus radial lift.

Mark if you don't mind me hijacking briefly, does anyone use a telehandler to accumulate or gather bales? 
Are they faster?
Would the remote hydraulics be hi-flow enough to handle a brush mower, could it be boomed (extended) to cut under trees?


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> Mark,
> 
> I know how you feel. I can't wait to be able to afford to get a skid steer. I'm going to wait till I can get a rubber tracked JCB or Volvo to get the side door entry. Make mine a 2 speed so I can get around quickly. Might consider a small telehandler for even more speed and ground clearance.
> I like PA Mikes observation about the straight lift versus radial lift.


The Volvo is a great machine, we rented one on tracks for a month. It was had to climb back in the old JD320! My wish list is a machine on tracks, no more tires!


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

PaMike said:


> A couple things...
> 
> -A skidsteer at close to max lift will often continue to lift load but you can not tilt back. The tilt cylinders will hit pressure relief even though the boom will keep lifint. This would be very annoying when trying to tip up grapple to unload bales
> 
> ...


The not tilting back is a royal PITA!! Dad has a smaller 'Bota tractor (L4600 or something like that) and it's near max with the grapple. Sometimes it won't tilt back and I have to let the heel of the grapple rest down on the stack and then rock the tilt back. It works, but it's getting by with what's on hand. Glad you mentioned it or I might not have considered it.

The Vertical lift/Radial lift are differences that I didn't even know existed. My price range is in the 5-7k range and I know I won't get much for that money.



azmike said:


> The Volvo is a great machine, we rented one on tracks for a month. It was had to climb back in the old JD320!


I couldn't afford nothing 1/3 as nice as your 320  ...unless I get rid of the backhoe and THAT ain't gonna happen. If I was ABLE to climb into the 320, you prolly couldn't beat the smile off my face with a pitchfork!

While reading other threads on skid steers with grapples, it seemed the general consensus was that Skid Steers were the bee's knees (right under a tele) for the barn-end of the operation and tractor was better in the field; that is the use I had in mind to have a grapple at each end of the operation.

Of y'all that like the skid steer for your barn work with the grapple, do you have a radial or vertical lift? I can SURE see PaMike's recommendation as being spot-on for one being "better" than the other.

Thanks, Mark


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

PaMike has very good points about skid steer performance. I will throw this caution out there though about the vertical boom travel machines. If they are lifting something that is a little over the tip over limit, you might not find out you've got too much until the boom is near the top of its travel, and then its a loooong way down baby! I found that out the hard way. A radial lift machine will be more likely to tip at mid lift if its over loaded, which while that's not cool gives you a better chance to recover.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

One thing to think about on a tracked machine...when turning fairly hard on grass/sod one of two things happen...

-The track slides over the grass and you pivot nicely and disturb the ground very little..this is often the case if you have some weight in the bucket making the machine pivot more on the front of the track...

-The track pivots, digs into the grass and peels a nice big layer of sod up and flips it right over leaving a big bare dirt spot.

I, like many, use a wheeled skidsteer out in the field to bring in bales. It works fine but isn't the BEST solution. I think the best solution is a modern loader tractor, telehandler or similar. The skidding action of a skidsteer can really tear things up even when being careful...


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

PaMike said:


> One thing to think about on a tracked machine...when turning fairly hard on grass/sod one of two things happen...
> -The track slides over the grass and you pivot nicely and disturb the ground very little..this is often the case if you have some weight in the bucket making the machine pivot more on the front of the track...
> 
> -The track pivots, digs into the grass and peels a nice big layer of sod up and flips it right over leaving a big bare dirt spot.
> ...


You just have to be willing to drive the skiddy more like a loader tractor sometimes, which I'm sure you're aware of.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I have an old skid steer and operate well beyond its lift capacity from time to time. The comment on operation on slight grade is very accurate. This is a dangerous situation that I am not proud of but I am aware of risk and seems reasonable to me. The problem is eventually someone helping you will attempt the same procedure you do.

I find a medium sized skid steer more appropriate than a big one for most jobs on this farm.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> You just have to be willing to drive the skiddy more like a loader tractor sometimes, which I'm sure you're aware of.


Yeah, I try...then I get pushy and tired and make a couple of sharp turns...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Lift geometry.

Regards, Mike

http://www.forconstructionpros.com/article/10733059/skid-steer-geometry-demystified


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## MrLuggs (Dec 14, 2015)

How may layers high can you usually go when stacking in the barn with a skidsteer? I usually stack 12 high (on strings, by hand currently), and am pondering what to put my grapple on (would naturally prefer a tele, but price/availability is an issue atm) when I get my kuhns rig this season


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

telehandlers are not any faster then a 2 speed skid steer they have a much higher lift capacity and can lift much higher then a skid steer. I have a JCB 525-60 3900 lbs at 21'. they are pricey but once you use one you will not got back. I feel the mobility and vision is better then a loader with 8' more reach then a skid steer.The problem is price most new are 75k+ I have no idea how well they hold up over time we have had a few problems with ours but overall has worked well.Will be running a second grapple with a NH232C tracked skid steer when we have an extra hand to run it.If money is not an issue the extra 10k spent on a telehandler is worth it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Beav said:


> telehandlers are not any faster then a 2 speed skid steer they have a much higher lift capacity and can lift much higher then a skid steer. I have a JCB 525-60 3900 lbs at 21'. they are pricey but once you use one you will not got back. I feel the mobility and vision is better then a loader with 8' more reach then a skid steer.The problem is price most new are 75k+ I have no idea how well they hold up over time we have had a few problems with ours but overall has worked well.Will be running a second grapple with a NH232C tracked skid steer when we have an extra hand to run it.If money is not an issue the extra 10k spent on a telehandler is worth it.


Can they be equipped with hi flow hydraulics to run a brush mower? Reach under trees, etc?


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Vol said:


> Lift geometry.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> http://www.forconstructionpros.com/article/10733059/skid-steer-geometry-demystified


To add to that... http://www.totallandscapecare.com/landscaping-equipment/equipment-matters-4/


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

MrLuggs said:


> How may layers high can you usually go when stacking in the barn with a skidsteer? I usually stack 12 high (on strings, by hand currently), and am pondering what to put my grapple on (would naturally prefer a tele, but price/availability is an issue atm) when I get my kuhns rig this season


I have a midsize skidsteer..... I can go eight high on strings stacking on plastic pallets.

Regards, Mike


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> Can they be equipped with hi flow hydraulics to run a brush mower? Reach under trees, etc?
> 
> I don't know for sure. Talk to a dealer. JCB is coming out with a telescopic boom on a skid steer sometime this year. Saw a video last summer 75k price range.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Vol said:


> I have a midsize skidsteer..... I can go eight high on strings stacking on plastic pallets.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike,

Do you need to go on pallets if you have a asphalt floor?

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

r82230 said:


> Mike,
> 
> Do you need to go on pallets if you have a asphalt floor?
> 
> Larry


Well I have heard it reported both ways.....some say yes and some say no.....I am sure it depends upon your relative climate. Here, I would think that it would canker on the bottom ground bales on "fresh" baled hay.....but I think once it had sweated and cured that it would be OK to stack on asphalt if you were shifting hay around or something of that nature.

I stack on 4 1/2" thick plastic Chinese shipping pallets on dirt floors and I get along just fine. On a occasion when checking I have smelled a very slight dank smell on the bottom of a stack or two, but no unsightly visible evidence. And I have yet to have anyone question me about that. It is very slight though.

Regards, Mike


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## MrLuggs (Dec 14, 2015)

r82230 said:


> Mike,
> 
> Do you need to go on pallets if you have a asphalt floor?
> 
> Larry


I have an asphalt floor in my haybarn, haven't stacked on pallets since I built the barn - no dusty bales! Best investment I ever made!


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## 68cuda (Dec 29, 2016)

I have asphalt in my hay storage,the floor is always dry.bottom of bales are always fine


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

MrLuggs said:


> I have an asphalt floor in my haybarn, haven't stacked on pallets since I built the barn - no dusty bales! Best investment I ever made!





68cuda said:


> I have asphalt in my hay storage,the floor is always dry.bottom of bales are always fine


Luggs & Cuda, did either of you put down what I call 'rat walls' (24-30 inches or more), around the outside?

If so what did you use for material? And how deep did you make them?

In my area woodchucks can be a problem.

Larry


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## 68cuda (Dec 29, 2016)

I just have metal siding with a flashing on the bottom down to the asphalt.No real problems with rodents or small animals


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## MrLuggs (Dec 14, 2015)

No rat walls here either, in hindsight, probably would have paid to have gone down a little bit - not sure how far, but we did have something dig under and through the asphalt last year (leaving a 4" hole in one of the corners. I'd say go for it if the price in negligible.


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## MattB (Feb 13, 2016)

Hi all. This thread is a little old but thought I'd throw my 2cents in.

I run a Cat226B which is their 2nd smallest model with an Aussie made 10 bale grab. It is radial lift.

I have no problems with it but I wouldn't want to go any smaller. It is on the limit of tipping if I have real heavy 36" bales and quickly change direction or stop hard. I haven't ever tipped it or felt like I was going too but I am careful.

I can stack 8 high on Strings on Pallets. Could probably go nine on the ground but don't think I could pick up again from that height.

Only thing I don't like is it is hard to see what you are doing when you get up higher in the stack. But that said you get a feel for it and I normally have someone around to spot for me if I need it.

Getting a grapple is the best investment I have made I think. Makes it so much quicker in the Shed (Barn). I still pick up with a bale lifter (NH 471) onto a truck. Would love to get an accumulator.

Cheers

Matt


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## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

MattB said:


> Hi all. This thread is a little old but thought I'd throw my 2cents in.
> 
> I run a Cat226B which is their 2nd smallest model with an Aussie made 10 bale grab. It is radial lift.
> I have no problems with it but I wouldn't want to go any smaller. It is on the limit of tipping if I have real heavy 36" bales and quickly change direction or stop hard. I haven't ever tipped it or felt like I was going too but I am careful.
> ...


I had never heard of a NH 471, had to Google it. Do you have any videos of it in action?


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## MattB (Feb 13, 2016)

csdeyton said:


> I had never heard of a NH 471, had to Google it. Do you have any videos of it in action?


No I don't have any video sorry. Its possibly an aussie made product. We have a few older machines that were made here for only our market like my NH 317 baler (copy of a 316)

I'll make some video's next season and post them.

Cheers

Matt


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its like a Henry pop up bale loader here.


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