# What width are you raking to make sm squares



## Apm1026 (Feb 11, 2012)

Learning to use a NH 575 in heavy irrigated Coastal Bermuda and irrigated pure stand 
Alfalfa. Our rakes are large rotary rakes for big round balers. Even cheating these 
Big rakes to only rake about 20 ft , the windrow is so big I have to run in 1 gear, or so it 
Seems, the baler is really stuffed at 1.2 mph and 540 pto, so in heavy hay what width are
You raking to make good working windrows for small squares ?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Is there something wrong with baling at 1.2 mph? Unless you're too low on flake count and suffering poor bale shape, I would think big windrows and slow speed would be ideal.


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## Apm1026 (Feb 11, 2012)

Well I also pull a Hoelschler accumulator and the big winrows can get too heavy and your pushing bales out faster than the table can handle them ,


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

10 foot works for us


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## kentuckyguy (Apr 13, 2015)

When I'm square baling I like the windrows as wide and tall as the pickup will handle.
In our 9 sided fields lol it's easier to just stuff the baler and go slow than bale so many windrows.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

What size cutter are you running? Are you tedding then raking or just raking the windrows?


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

I am using a single rotoary and a 575 in irrigated Tifton 85. About 12' is as much as you can rake. 12 flakes in 38" bale. Bale tractor in 1st sometimes 2nd gear


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I make them as big as the baler will handle, usually going 1.5 mph.......
That is about 35' of hay moved into the winrow with Tift 44, Alicia, etc.
On Tift 85 usually move about 25' of hay into the winrow......usually it's being baled into rounds not squares

How is the alfalfa being baled, squares too?


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## markltorrey (Jun 29, 2010)

I use a Lely Splendimo 280 (7 disc), rotary cutter, and a NH Rolabar 57 (~7' width), side drop rake. Most of the hay I bale is Coastal Bermuda, Bahia, Tifton 85 or a mix. For our typical good growth years, I'll combine 2 cut rows into 1 windrow creating a 4-5' width of moderate density, for my NH 277 sm. square baler. As we know, windrow size, density and feed rate (ground speed), determine bale shape, and with this moderately dense 2 to 1 windrow, I can go in 1st gear, occasionally shifting up to 2nd or 3rd when the windrow becomes sparse.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I am a fan of big heavy windrows as well. I put 14-42ft of cut in a windrow. I prefer to bale in second . I get after the rake operator if I am in third for any extended amount of time.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I agree - take it up a gear to get less flakes or reduce rpms and keep the same ground speed.

If you reduce rpms, use a ratio to mimic a lower capacity baler. Your New Holland is a 93 stroke machine, a New Holland BC5050 or 316 is a 79 stroke per minute baler. Lowering the rpms essentially gives more thicker flakes with the same ground speed. Output, however, should be the same regardless of 93 vs 79 spm with the same ground speed. IMHO, the reason to slow down is for light/thin windrows - just to fill the pickup, but you've got heavy windrows.

If you are dropping on the ground and have enough hp, I'd run the 575 to capacity, i.e. 12-15 flakes per bale. You'll finish fast too with output IMHO easily over 300 bales per hour.

Good luck,
Bill


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We like a nice size window but one thing that's important to us even more important than the number of flakes in a bale is getting sound dry hay. Often after we rake that hay still needs to dry on the window. Jamming too much on a windrow would make drying difficult. I believe around here the custom operators that demand massive windrows so they can pay off 4to5 Farms of hay in a day's time are the reason they need to use massive amounts of propionic acid each day. When I was a kid we made much smaller windrows and we could get hay dry quicker but those days are past


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

endrow said:


> We like a nice size window but one thing that's important to us even more important than the number of flakes in a bale is getting sound dry hay. Often after we rake that hay still needs to dry on the window. Jamming too much on a windrow would make drying difficult. I believe around here the custom operators that demand massive windrows so they can pay off 4to5 Farms of hay in a day's time are the reason they need to use massive amounts of propionic acid each day. When I was a kid we made much smaller windrows and we could get hay dry quicker but those days are past


I agree on the smaller windrows as a kid, we mowed with a 6 foot, then a 7 foot sickle bar mower, raked a double windrow on outside the field only, then all single windrows in 1st cutting. Double windrow usually had to be turned over before baling to let it dry more yet. And this was with conditioned hay! We had a JD conditioner (believe it or not they were made/sold in the 60's), ran the conditioner with a Farmall C (driving one round behind mower). Cut with a Ford Jubilee, raked with the C or Ford, baled with the Farmall H and a JD14t, then a JD24t (I still have in the shed).

But today....................different story, with a 28 foot v-rake..

Larry


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

leeave96 said:


> I agree - take it up a gear to get less flakes or reduce rpms and keep the same ground speed.
> 
> If you reduce rpms, use a ratio to mimic a lower capacity baler. Your New Holland is a 93 stroke machine, a New Holland BC5050 or 316 is a 79 stroke per minute baler. Lowering the rpms essentially gives more thicker flakes with the same ground speed. Output, however, should be the same regardless of 93 vs 79 spm with the same ground speed. IMHO, the reason to slow down is for light/thin windrows - just to fill the pickup, but you've got heavy windrows.
> 
> ...


I can't seem to get my head wrapped around it.
It seems to me lowering RPMs should have no effect on size of flakes. Each of tractor's gears and PTO are in a unchangeable relationship with each other.
In any given gear, X amount of RPMs will move the tractor forward an amount and the same X amount of RPMs will produce a finite amount of strokes. No matter the RPM, the tractor will move forward the exact same distance per stroke of the baler no matter the RPM at which it is ran. Therefore, I see the baler encountering the same distance of windrow per stroke at any given rpm unless a different gear is selected thereby changing the ratio of forward movement to baler stroke.
I might can't see the forest for the trees being in the way, but that's how I have my head wrapped around it...right wrong or otherwise.
To each his own, but I run at 540 to allow the flywheel to do the work, count strokes per knot, and adjust the tractor's gear accordingly.
73, Mark


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Oh the simplicity of 2 engines. Run the baler engine on the governor,a medium gear on tractor at idle. Come to the corner poor it to tractor come around idle tractor down. Old IH,M or a JD,A and the like where popular on a engine driven baler.

I guess Calif. was the last place this was done or the Amish with horses pulling baler. Only a year or 2 ago AGCO dealer was advertising the last engine powered in line balers.Don't know about NH probably still get a Freeman engine power.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> I can't seem to get my head wrapped around it.It seems to me lowering RPMs should have no effect on size of flakes. Each of tractor's gears and PTO are in a unchangeable relationship with each other.In any given gear, X amount of RPMs will move the tractor forward an amount and the same X amount of RPMs will produce a finite amount of strokes. No matter the RPM, the tractor will move forward the exact same distance per stroke of the baler no matter the RPM at which it is ran. Therefore, I see the baler encountering the same distance of windrow per stroke at any given rpm unless a different gear is selected thereby changing the ratio of forward movement to baler stroke.I might can't see the forest for the trees being in the way, but that's how I have my head wrapped around it...right wrong or otherwise.To each his own, but I run at 540 to allow the flywheel to do the work, count strokes per knot, and adjust the tractor's gear accordingly.73, Mark


What you are saying is correct. Lower rpms and kick up a gear.

I went around our fields picking up stray bits of hay after we finished baling this year with the 348. Lower rpm and faster gear speed made for a full enough pickup that we still got nice square bales inspite of the thinness of the hay being picked up. Anything different got us inconsistent bales, i.e. same lower ground speed with 540 PTO rpms and thin hay.

For the OP's issue with more flakes than he'd like, it might be a simple matter of just kicking up a gear and maintaining 540 PTO rpms.

Just to ramble a bit....

I've read many posts on various forums that in normal baling, some folks run their baler at a lower rpm. Less wear and tear, "just runs/ties better", etc - all kinds of reasons given. I guess if it works OK.

When we first got our New Holland 68, we ran it at a lower rpm too. Once we 68 refurb'd it, including new wooden plunger slides, we run it at full 540 PTO rpms. Two reasons, more flakes per bale and utilizing the momentum of the flywheel, less sheared flywheel bolts. Really zero sheared flywheel bolts.

Note the 68 is a 63-65 stroke per minute baler. Doesn't take much windrow to fill up the pickup, even at the lowest ground speed, so naturally running 540 PTO rpms is our best chance to get the most flakes per bale. Even then, if the windrows are fat, the flakes are big.

When in the hunt for a second baler, we wanted something with 93 strokes per minute. On the list was the New Holland 570/575, BC5060/BC5070, MF 1835 inline and John Deere 348.

The idea was more flakes per bale and a faster ground speed too.

However, also in mind was the notion that if a baler can make 93 strokes per minute, like a NH 575, and a JD 328 makes 80 strokes per minute and the New Holland makes 65ish strokes per minute, then you have in one 93 SPM baler - really 3 baler's of different capacities, 93, 80 or 65 or anything in between via an rpm reduction (with appropriate ground speed).

As fat as the OP's windrows seem, based on his higher flake per bale count, and given the 575 is a hay eating monster, his windrows IMHO could be even bigger, if he kept the same ground speed and 540 rpms.

BACK TO LURKING!!!!!!

Bill


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Was years ago, making alfalfa/orchard grass mix and baling with a NH276, mowed with a NH495 which is 12 foot cut, on first cutting raked a single row for baling, second and third cutting raked two rows together or 24 foot, on cuttings after that might go three rows or 36 foot or even four rows for 48 foot.


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## 506 (Mar 22, 2016)

I'm raking 20' of Jiggs into windrows with a Kuhn SR 110 G2 carted wheel rake. That works out to 3 cutting passes with a Krone AM 243. I use a MF 1837 inline baler. When baling I seek to keep the pickup full at all times. To do that I'll gear up/down as needed. If I creep along at 1.5 mph and the pickup is full but keeping up with the amount of hay coming at it, I'll just grind along with a smile on my face.

I got to tinkering around with ground speed last weekend. The manual for my 1837 shows a target ground speed of 2.5-3 mph. They need a caveat that says that this is for thin windrows. I tried running that speed in tall, thick windrows. At a point I blinked and didn't notice that I was overwhelming the baler pickup. At that point I started to push hay. By now the 'seasoned' readers are on the floor laughing as they know I'm about to have to admit to shearing the shearbolt on the plunger drive followed by having to remove the rear access door to unplug the bale chamber. NOTE TO THE READER: don't do that as it is a messy, tiring job.

An additional learning I had from this exercise was that my baler, at higher ground speeds and heavy windrows, was making really ragged looking bales on the sides. The bales from one windrow, at about 1.5 mph, were neat, clean little bricks of uniform length, width, and weight. The bales from the second windrow at about 2-2.5 mph (before breaking the shearbolt) were ragged on the sides, the width varied due to the ragged edges, the length varied 4" to 6" and the weight had some noticeable variations due to length.

I get the problem with a towed accumulator. With the heavy windrows I was dropping bales about every 4'-5' in some places. I see how that would constipate a pull behind accumulator. It looked great to see so many bales in a tight little line but..... I pick with a FEL grapple that I've modified into an accumulator. It took a bit of maneuvering to get the bales into the accumulator without running over bales. The ragged bales were really a challenge to pick as they didn't want to flow into the accumulator. The clean bales slipped right in with absolutely no problems.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

We mow with a 9 foot mower and in first cutting only put double windrows where they are needed (starting a field, in the middle of a big section, etc.). The 348 has a problem keeping consistent bales in the double windrows and it also makes it a little harder to pick them up with the stacker wagon. When the bales are close together, the tables don't have enough time to cycle in order to keep up. If you start dropping down even to just 2nd gear with the stacker wagon, the chain on the pickup chute can chew on the end of the bale for a little bit before it actually starts picking the bale up. I've had a couple bales broken by that.

Later cuttings, I just combine swaths until the windrow is the size I want. I've done everything from doubles all the way up to 6 swaths in one windrow.


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## Cmm (Jun 5, 2016)

20ft ft swath wind rowed into 4ft windrow just tall enough for tractor to clear 
at 540 an 2.6 mph

Light Or heavy hay same windrow size

Sometime they are double swaths sometimes they are single 
Heck sometimes it's three

But I know what my baler likes and how it likes it!

No busted bales
All uniform tight and sq
42-45lb
Horse lady happy


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## kidbalehook (Mar 19, 2013)

First cutting we normally do singles (9'), then in 2nd and third we do doubles. (18').


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