# What breed to buy starting out



## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

If you where to start out fresh and wanted to run mostly grass fed operation what breed would you buy? I have been looking at the Lowlines, Herfords, Longhorns that should finish on good pasture. I am in South Arkansas I know that makes a difference. We have good pasture that we can rotate them on. We will feed our cows/ heifers just pull what calves we will want to finish on grass. So if you are going to buy 10pairs now what would they be?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Knowing your customer base is important in making this decision. Will they prefer larger or smaller cattle (and cuts)? Will they care about the breed or just the grass feeding?


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## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

They mostly want farm fresh beef. And have some that want grass fed. For the most part breed does not matter.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I would look for some cross bred cows and put them with a registered bull. Different areas and people have different ideas on what would be best. Not really sure there is one set answer.

Since you will only need one bull, try to get cows that will cross with that bull. I have grown partial to Charolais/Charolais cross cows and cross them with either Hereford or Brangus bulls. That said, most of my cows are black because that is what the market wants. If the farm raised/freezer beef plan does not work out you can still get good money at the sale barn. I would not go with a smaller novelty breed. Get nice framed cows and raise some really good calves.

Local folks told us for years that they wanted farm raised beef. They also want it for less money than they would pay in the store. I have learned that the general public does not like paying a farmer. The mindset is the calf is 100% profit.

I raised and sold farm raised and also grass fed. Trying to be competitive in price will cost you money. Unless a person is committed to paying for a custom product then the better money is the sale barn.


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

I think I would start with some Red Devon. We have Hereford now and also like those. Have a red angus bull in with them now. Looking forward to June.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm thinking Hereford. They're popular crosses among the grass crowd (maybe with a Devon bull) and they'll make you excellent sale barn cattle by pairing them with an angus bull if the grass thing doesn't work out. Depending on your local climatic conditions, you may need to add some percentage of "eared" cattle for heat. Of course, your other option is to find someone else who's selling cows from a grass finishing herd and buy those, regardless of breed. There are hard-keeping/finishing cattle in every breed so you'd be a few steps ahead to buy from someone who is already producing what you want to be.


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## JayTN (Jul 12, 2015)

I would keep ear to a minimum unless I could find out where your areas marketed cattle go after auctions. Meaning, do the cattle from your are go north where they do not like eared or Brangus influence or will they go south where it doesn't matter as much. I have to market my calves 60 miles north of me for ear not to influence sale price. Breed to me is not as important as getting a good traits from crosses. I run a summer herd. Some are black, some are red, and some are blonde! But cross them with a Simmental bull and I get traits from all breeds and get excellent results as far as vigor, feed conversion and weaning weights. My bottom line is my final price, so I do what I can to increase that. In your area a good Beefmaster cross might be a good choice. Like some others stated, stay with as much black as you can to get a premium price when you have to sell at an auction. My action does not care about color but many do. As for a bull, I would have that number of cattle AI'd. Get semen with a heavy weaning weight so they will finish off faster.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I raise lowlines with my neighbor on his property. I feed them my round bale grass hay I grow and of course they graze on the "lawn grass" that grows in his pasture. 
These things are so docile and easy going. We really like them, might go with highline angus next time, but so far we like these. They're about 14-15 mos old in this picture. Mini donkeys on the right.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Crossbred cows with a Charolias bull


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Red cows grow better calves, and you can throw just about any kind of purebred bull in there and get good calves


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Look for cows that come from a grass fed herd. Wven in the same breed some thrive on grass while others do not.


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

Direct sales of grass fed beef to the public is no picnic I can assure you. Before we launched an aggressive hay farming for feed program we had a herd of longhorn based range cattle. These animals start out small and pretty much stay small. Prime cavity cuts may sell OK but then you are stuck with the motion meats and lesser desirable cuts. We would sometimes grind over 1/2 of the hanging carcass for steer burgers on our BBQ rig. We bought a Criollo bull to try to get some marble to the grass beef but ended up with a bull that could wander more than Charles Kurault!

People say they really want healthy low fat meat but will complain when their steaks don't look like costco Nebraska cuts!

We are trying real hard to eliminate dealing with the public.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

azmike said:


> We are trying real hard to eliminate dealing with the public.


I came to the same conclusion.

Selling to the public is akin to selling hay to the horse people. They consider themselves educated and have read a lot of Disney type articles. Just getting them to understand shrink is an uphill battle.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Heavily considering buying 10 head and putting them on land I own. I would have to fence it in. 
Straight up- if I supply all my own hay, is it worth it? 
Angus calves here are 2.50/lb. 
I wish I could figure it out, including the downside, all the "hidden" costs.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Your costs it's quite easy to add up.
-feed cost for 22-27 months (to be productive, grass ain't free)
-individual maintenance (ie tags, vaccinations, parasite control)
-transport to packer, pickup from packer ($40 for me, again fuel price dependent, I don't go to the closest one)
-processor fees $50 kill, .65# hanging weight (what I pay)
-freezer and electricity to operate freezer
-advertisement
-coolers (regulations vary for type of delivery ie. Farmers Market or direct)
-delivery costs vary
-have to report sales tax according to local laws on top of income.

There are no hidden costs. We all know equipment cost is spread out over time, you can estimate equipment as start up cost. To say the least, Farm To Table is counter productive unless you have a higher demand than supply. For what it is worth, the headaches may not be worth it, especially when you get very little profit (if any) during strong markets. However, when markets falter, you have done the leg work and have a customer base that you can cover. Farm to Table is more like a bond because you can set prices and know what your return is going to be. Stockyards, we all know depends on the rain.

Now if you go to Farmers Markets, you have to pay an association fee along with spot rentals. At one of the local places is $50 membership and daily spot rent from $14-$70 depending on the season and time of day. Another is $100 membership and $10 daily spot. Really whether you make your bank or not depends on your prices and your buyers. Too high, you'll sell less. Too low, you will sell but you just might be giving it away. I can't compete with grocery store prices and I do not price gouge like the hippies. I've stolen buyers from both the hippies and the split sides.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

In my humble opinion even though many will disagree for various reasons this breeds is a niche market, I like Dexter cattle, they are not miniatures, you can feed two for what it takes to feed one of the other breeds, they come in three colors Dun Red and Black, they normally have horns but there has been a huge increase in polled Dexter cattle. so if you have to take them to the sale barn you should not be penalized for horns.The amount of meat from say a Angus steer can over whelm and discourage the average home buyer, The amount of meat from a Dexter steer fit nicely into the average freezer. Dexter cattle do well in less the ideal conditions. They tend to be docile and can be milked if so desired providing one to two gallons of milk a day.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Angus cows , I would stay away from longhorn breed........they will bring the low end of any sale .


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Thorim said:


> In my humble opinion even though many will disagree for various reasons this breeds is a niche market, I like Dexter cattle, they are not miniatures, you can feed two for what it takes to feed one of the other breeds, they come in three colors Dun Red and Black, they normally have horns but there has been a huge increase in polled Dexter cattle. so if you have to take them to the sale barn you should not be penalized for horns.The amount of meat from say a Angus steer can over whelm and discourage the average home buyer, The amount of meat from a Dexter steer fit nicely into the average freezer. Dexter cattle do well in less the ideal conditions. They tend to be docile and can be milked if so desired providing one to two gallons of milk a day.


I'm living off Dexter beef right now. It's very good. And yes, they are very docile.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

bluefarmer said:


> Red cows grow better calves, and you can throw just about any kind of purebred bull in there and get good calves


X2 even though all my cow are Angus cows .. No truer words have ever been posted red hided cows will out perform black cows continuously I'am too far north to give a opinion for your area .. but all I can say is when I read the words grass fed then Hereford would be involved in some way.. I sure would listen to what Tim/south or Colby has to say as both are in your area and know the cow business


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

A local rancher does the farmers market weekly but has set up a good market with a restaurant that sells high end cave man diet food. They have a very different menu, only works w/townies. I don't quite get it but he is getting very high $$ for his grass fed beef. He is the same guy that can't buy my RR alfalfa hay.


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

I run a mixed herd of grass fed cattle, primarily Scottish Highland but now have mixed in some Herefords. Highlands work for us, we're in a cold climate, we have a niche market, they're easy keepers, never pull a calf, never house them.

That said, we've tried a few others, some of the best for good grassfed Beef was lineback bulls from dairy herds and shorthorns.

See what your market will bear. I see some people jumping into breeds like belties and realize calving issues and temperament are an issue. Everyone is terrified of the horns on our Highland, honestly, hasn't been an issue for us. We run a comb over most of them to keep them friendly and my wife and son routinely walk with them. We do have to pay attention, I never trust any large animal, but having had a couple Angus as a young 4-h er, never again.


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

Fwiw, re horns and sale barns, if any of mine are going to a sale barn I'm either dead or something went drastically wrong (like I died). I'll butcher it myself before I take a beating at a sale. You should have plenty of customers or you shouldn't do a grass fed operation. If you're relying on the sale barn for your grassfed Beef you won't last long.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Interesting thread so far and timely for me. We're looking into starting a small herd soon. I'm seriously considering Senepol's. Given their characaristics I think they'll be easy keepers and a good fit into our little operation. At the moment we have a couple of Brangus mommas that we keep to supply the freezer with calf meat but I want to get a few Senepols and try them out. I'm thinking I'll AI the mommas when it's time to breed 'em.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Used to run a lot of angus, didn't like the bred in crazy. Have a angus hereford shorthorn cross now, a lot more docile than a purebred angus, but not as mellow as a purebred hereford but generally larger animals.

The breed does make a difference though for efficiency, I can turn my cows loose in a new paddock and they walk down half of it, by buddy who's milking jerseys can turn his loose in a paddock and they start at the gate and work across the whole thing instead of walking a bunch of it down.


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

mlappin said:


> Used to run a lot of angus, didn't like the bred in crazy. Have a angus hereford shorthorn cross now, a lot more docile than a purebred angus, but not as mellow as a purebred hereford but generally larger animals.
> 
> The breed does make a difference though for efficiency, I can turn my cows loose in a new paddock and they walk down half of it, by buddy who's milking jerseys can turn his loose in a paddock and they start at the gate and work across the whole thing instead of walking a bunch of it down.


Where to start on this thread..

Jerseys, hate these things, scourge of the dairy cow world. I'm milking some right now, two kickers bars on one first calf heifer at the moment, it's a real blast. They've got Jerseys here because supposedly they are great grazers, and because they are the organic poster child. The token organic breed. 
Possibly the worst grazing animal I've ever seen in my life, I've always assumed these ones had forgotten how to graze being a closed herd, after reading your post it must be a Jersey thing. These ones would rather bunch up next to the gate and shit all over the grass rather than spread out and eat it. Horribly weather intolerant too, pretty sure they borrowed the marketing guy from the Angus association to sell everyone on these gutter rats. Somehow the only other US registered dairy breed that is consistently growing in registrations. 
Calves aren't worth a damn out of them, and the cows aren't real hardy, steers don't amount to a damn thing either. 
Swiss, Ayershires or Shorthorns would make better grazing cows but none of those breed associations are real good at selling their breed on the masses. 
An old guy had told me a couple years ago "The only point of Jerseys is to out milk a goat, you know". 
Too poor to milk holsteins and too proud to milk goats is how the saying goes I think.

Back to beef though. 
I bought a herd of belties a year ago now, reasons for buying them were feed efficiency, over winter well with their double coats, polled, small breed since I don't have much land right now, inlaws have a big beltie herd (this is really good and a huge pain in the ass) so I get free bulls, lots of age diversity in the herd I bought and finally the "oreo cow" factor is awesome for "free" marketing.
So being in the Northeast a lot of the same reasons Atgreene has highlanders, the free bulls was a big deciding factor for me. I wasn't even planning on buying cows when these guys came up, it was really too good a deal to pass up though.

Now I was originally planning on doing grassfed beef, but after giving it a shot for a year and doing a couple different cash flows while looking at farms for sale it really doesn't make sense for me. I can sell more hay, keep fewer animals and turn over cash faster just selling yearlings and feeders. I like the quote in here that calves are 100% profit, I may have to steal that. It couldn't be more true for me. 
Land base is a big issue for me because I rent a very small piece of ground.

So to get on topic, climate, housing, how many months of grazing, what quality of grazing?
I really think that grassfed only works if it is in an absolutely perfect scenario. You need lots of high quality feed, since you can't use additives and grain to finish. Finishing time is a big issue in my opinion, you've really got to break down your cost of making a bale and make sure you can charge enough per lb of meat to make it worth while. 
Also facilities make a huge difference, if you are trying to raise a whole herd calving to slaughter you are going to end up with a ton more head than 20 pretty quick. Especially if you start to break down your feed efficiency (cost of making the feed/time to finish).
This is a huge reason I will probably just keep raising yearlings for the time being, I don't mind keeping brood cows around, being a more dairy minded person I'd rather deal with calves and milking cows than finishing and beefing steers anyways. But land availability for the amount of animals to make a start to finish SMALL grassfed beef herd is a huge limiting factor for me, if not the limiting factor.

My personal opinion is that I agree with whoever said earlier to look into buying started grassfed animals and finishing them. There is a lot of legwork that goes into grassfed beef, remember it cooks differently than corn finished for example, so you need to continually inform your customers of that when they ask why it doesn't look like an Outback or Longhorn Steakhouse steak, after they burn the shit out of it. 
If you want a small herd that actually makes money that would be the route I'd take, quicker turn around, could try out some different breeds, fewer animals on your property, can focus on feeding finishing animals rather than trying to feed different ages and sizes.

The reason I mentioned my situation is because there have to be different reasons for each person, but most of the general things to look at are the same.

Also on one final note remember that there are variations within each breed and each herd. 
For instance my belties came from a place that they never got handled so it has taken me a good year to get them calmed down, breeding to better tempered bulls helped too. 
Also there are farm and show traits in every breed of anything, a couple of my cows are from a fancy show string and definitely don't overwinter as well as my boring but hairier dun and black unregistered cows, but they do throw big calves.
Up here purebred cows are the way to go, other places that may not be the case, I have purebred cows because I can sell them private sale easier. That said crossbreeds would probably make better sale barn cows, I'd get taken out 6 ways to Sunday if I brought mine to a big auction. Hell, I'd get screwed on Sunday too if they were open.
But I can bring my purebred animals go smaller, annual and more importantly regional sales and do pretty well.

Hope some of this helps and wasn't just a long winded rant!


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

atgreene said:


> I run a mixed herd of grass fed cattle, primarily Scottish Highland but now have mixed in some Herefords. Highlands work for us, we're in a cold climate, we have a niche market, they're easy keepers, never pull a calf, never house them.
> 
> That said, we've tried a few others, some of the best for good grassfed Beef was lineback bulls from dairy herds and shorthorns.
> 
> See what your market will bear. I see some people jumping into breeds like belties and realize calving issues and temperament are an issue. Everyone is terrified of the horns on our Highland, honestly, hasn't been an issue for us. We run a comb over most of them to keep them friendly and my wife and son routinely walk with them. We do have to pay attention, I never trust any large animal, but having had a couple Angus as a young 4-h er, never again.


Not to jump off topic but how has that KR130 worked out?


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