# Compact tractor to farm hay?



## dilogdp (May 20, 2016)

Hi, i currently own a 2015 MF 1655 (55 HP) compact tractor. I use it to load round bales and bush hog fields. A "real" farmer comes and cuts and bales the 25 acre hay field. Sadly, he's not very reliable e.g. doesn't show up, so I am considering raking and baling myself. A JD 336 square baler is available.

Question: would my compact tractor be able to handle the task of raking and baling? Some of this older hay farming equipment is hard to find the specs, e.g. PTO requirement, hitch category, HP rating.

I am not a farmer! The wife has a horse boarding business and I help out. The MF 1655 is my first tractor, so I plead ignorance. However, I am very mechanically inclined, and would have no issue fixing and repairing stuff like balers and tedders, presuming I can acquire the parts and a service manual.

thanks


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

dilogdp said:


> Hi, i currently own a 2015 MF 1655 (55 HP) compact tractor. I use it to load round bales and bush hog fields. A JD 336 square baler is available. Question: would my compact tractor be able to handle the task of raking and baling?


Oh yes, no problem there !


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I think the PTO horsepower requirements on a 336 baler is 45. That is what you gauge tractors to equipment by.....not engine horse power. This site will give you more info on your tractor.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/006/3/6/6367-massey-ferguson-1655.html

As long as you do not have steep hills you should be OK....as your tractor does not have enough weight for those situations where you might get pushed or pulled back because of heavy weight. Your tractor is 43 PTO hp rated....it has not been tested yet by the folks in Nebraska....it could have a few more hp actually.

Use common sense and you can manage.....if you hear a little voice in your mind questioning something, it pays to listen.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I ran a Kubota l5030 compact tractor with 42 hp on a jd 336 for years, tens of thousands of bales in hilly ground. On flat ground it pulled a bale basket or wagon too.

Tires were loaded, ran the A/c the whole time too. We then ran a round baler with it and the rad had to be very clean to bale up big long hills with that.

Tractor still going strong approaching 3000 hours on it.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

It will easily handle raking and baling! Especially if its a gear drive. Hydro might not like pulling the baler all day. 
Not my ideal choice of baler.. I prefer a NewHolland to a Deere for a first time go at it.. 
I personally have never seen a Deere baler make it through an entire field with out an issue.
Im sure there are good ones that have, just saying I have never seen one.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Our Kubota is a hydrostatic- it's actually the best baling setup ever as you can keep the pickup full. At the speed range you bale at it's never under much load.

Also the flip side of the last poster, my first experiences were with old junk new holland balers falling apart all the time so it's not brand related, its condition. For me the John deeres saved me from the misery by just working for tens of thousands of bales trouble free.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> Our Kubota is a hydrostatic- it's actually the best baling setup ever as you can keep the pickup full. At the speed range you bale at it's never under much load.
> 
> Also the flip side of the last poster, my first experiences were with old junk new holland balers falling apart all the time so it's not brand related, its condition. For me the John deeres saved me from the misery by just working for tens of thousands of bales trouble free.


I will also attest to the reliability of JD balers. I ran a 1971 24T until about 6 years ago. It made trouble free beautiful bales. Slow at 65 strokes per minute, but plenty fast enough for a fella packing wagons by hand.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

skyrydr2 said:


> Not my ideal choice of baler.. I prefer a NewHolland to a Deere for a first time go at it..
> I personally have never seen a Deere baler make it through an entire field with out an issue.
> Im sure there are good ones that have, just saying I have never seen one.


Why don't you do this; click on the Machinery forum and read through 3 or 4 pages or more, and tell us how many inquiries there are about NH square baler problems versus JD square baler problems.

Regards, Mike


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I have and most have an easy fix for them right off. This is why its a good rookie baler. Most know just what to do to fix it.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Nah I just dont like JD..


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

skyrydr2 said:


> Nah I just dont like JD..


That is much more believable than your "making it through a entire field" claim.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Ford chevy dodge, whatever.

Don't matter the color if it hasn't been maintained. Here green hay equipment is very rare. I've actually seen more Heston and Vermeer stuff than Deere and Heston and Vermeer have a very small market share here, NH red rules hay equipment, here.

Your tractor should handle a square baler easy enough, if you have large hills you might have to drop em on the ground and pick em up later with a hay rack.

If you have just enough tractor won't be much fun though. A Super 88 with around 45 PTO hp would run our 276 hayliner, get a 250 bale thrower wagon behind it and it didn't like it much. My 1600 would run the baler wagon combo better with 72 PTO hp, but you really weren't getting a lot done until you stuck the 1855 on the baler/wagon as it had 100 PTO hp.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Here green hay equipment is very rare.


And here NH hay equipment is seldom seen.....so what's your point?

Regards, Mike


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

To judge a product by the number of posts on a forum or for that matter the market share, is not going to lead you to accurate conculsions. There are other reasons for the number of posts about a particular brand besides being a poor product.

For many years NH had over half the sales of many hay tool products. That is no longer the case because other mfg's have vastly improved their product offerings, but they still own a significant portion of the market. With just the shear numbers out there over other brands, you will naturally have more people posting about a particular brand then others.

I have always wondered why people post on a forum instead of going to their dealer for an answer. The only thing I can figure is it is not easy for the the producer to get an answer from the right person at a dealership. It seems they must deal with the service manager instead of the person most likely to know the answer.

In the end, I guess, it comes down to the dealer. Many dealers have gone out of business or been gobbled up by mega dealers, leaving many people lacking in dealer support. Deere has the stongest dealer network but that does not always carry over to the service your recieve. I still think you get your best one on one treatment from the smaller dealer.

The business has changed so much in the 45 years I have been involved. I have come to the conclusion there is no place left for the small dealer. It is just not economically feasible for a person to start up a farm equipment business representing a major mfg. Unless you have mutiple millions laying around you will not give adequate service to your customers.

Mike, I like to give my JD friends a hard time about those huge shops the JD delaers have. I tell them it is beyond my comprehesion there can be that much tractor and equipment waxing going on.

Have a great 4th of July.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mike10

Be it good or bad JD hasn't altered their sq baler design much since the 14T/214 models & all most none since the 336/346. NH has transpired from their feeder fingers that have a history of self destructing to the rotary feed which by the way resembles JD's feeder forks. Would you care to wager which brand(JD or NH) has the most threads(complaints) about banana shaped bales? 

I hope everyone has a wonderful 4th of July


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

As I remember it back in the day, the auger was not considered an asset in certain crops. What I find interesting is why people are afraid to get out a wrench and adjust the feeder to get square bales. Even on the models where you only need to pull a pin to adjust the packer fork, people will not do it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mike10 said:


> As I remember it back in the day, the auger was not considered an asset in certain crops. What I find interesting is why people are afraid to get out a wrench and adjust the feeder to get square bales. Even on the models where you only need to pull a pin to adjust the packer fork, people will not do it.


If I was to buy a small square baler I would not consider a JD because of that auger. I don't even think the huge JD dealer even has any in stock. I was told a couple years ago that they had sold one in 3 years and the guy just wanted it because it was green. Heck I don't particularly like the augers on my MF 2150 3x3 baler. If the feeder is going to plug the augers are where it happens. When we had an inline hesston the little augers is where they would plug up also. I spent to much time when I was a kid unplugging the auger in heavy grass hay on the first NH SP swather we had before my dad traded for a SP haybine. Even now my cousin demoed a new 1840 MF inline baler. He said it still couldn't beat his BC5070 hayliners. When we first considered a SP disc swather we looked at the NH one and saw those augers under the head. No thank you. My fears might be unfounded, but they are still fears and I wouldn't want to make a huge mistake to have those fears realized.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mike10 said:


> To judge a product by the number of posts on a forum or for that matter the market share, is not going to lead you to accurate conculsions. There are other reasons for the number of posts about a particular brand besides being a poor product.


I never said NH was a "poor product".....I was just responding to a blanket claim that JD balers were a POS.....pointing out that there were a number of posts inquiring how to repair NH products just the same as(or more than) others.

Also, other manufactures have improved their products as you said....or developed new products that work very well...like the inline baler. IMO, NH has hurt its products when Fiat purchased the company and instituted their business practices. I have owned NH products in the past and still do. I speak from my experiences.

A happy Fourth to you Mike.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I've never had trouble with the JD augers even in 4 ton an acre crops. Only thing that ever plugs is big slugs between pickup and wind guard - the slip protection on pickup will stall. Usually can back up and it will clear itself. Usually only happens in huge straw windrows or if you cross a set of tracks in the field and bury the pickup in dirt.

Now I have had trouble with an old ih 420 or something baler with an auger. Not sure why it didn't work well.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The fact is, today there is not much difference in the performance of the various brands. One may work slightly better in some crops but not so well in others. The perfect machine has not been invented yet.

I do not know how many times I have said it on this forum, it is not the brand but the dealer which will make your experience a good one or a bad one. There may be some problems that cannot be solved, there are too many variables across the country, but a good dealer will minimize your exposure to such problems.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Mike10, if you and all the other helpful folks worked at my local dealers I might not need or enjoy haytalk so much!

My experience with both the local Deere dealer (very large chain) and NH (locally owned, two stores) has not been good when it comes to service or answering questions in recent years. Both are mainly interested in selling new stuff to you every other year and not keeping the rest running. After not getting helpful answers, not getting calls returned, or being outright lied to its just much easier and helpful to talk to folks online. Our local NH dealer doesn't even have a shop manager anymore. Just the overall general manager who tries to be head salesman plus run the shop too. And there is no tenure among the mechanics anymore.

I hate to think what it will be like five years from now. And I'm no expert mechanic but with the high price and low quality of dealer work around here I've had to learn and do as much as I can on my own.

Not trying to hijack the original thread. Just wanted to add my $.02 and say again how helpful I find forums like this.

Happy 4th!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

No doubt Trotwood, it should be very obvious as to why folks ask questions on this forum.... to SAVE MONEY. For many of us that make inquiries at our dealers, we all get the same reply....." bring it in and we will take a look at it".

Also, there are not a lot of dealers out there that have qualified square baler mechanics that make service calls.....and if they did they might be 3-4 days out. So it is nice to be able to go to a place like haytalk and ask a question about a problem that you are presently having. It could save your hay from getting rained on, bleached, etc. Most of us regulars have gleaned information from this site that has been very useful at one time or another.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

dilogdp said:


> Hi, i currently own a 2015 MF 1655 (55 HP) compact tractor. I use it to load round bales and bush hog fields. A "real" farmer comes and cuts and bales the 25 acre hay field. Sadly, he's not very reliable e.g. doesn't show up, so I am considering raking and baling myself. A JD 336 square baler is available.
> Question: would my compact tractor be able to handle the task of raking and baling? Some of this older hay farming equipment is hard to find the specs, e.g. PTO requirement, hitch category, HP rating.
> I am not a farmer! The wife has a horse boarding business and I help out. The MF 1655 is my first tractor, so I plead ignorance. However, I am very mechanically inclined, and would have no issue fixing and repairing stuff like balers and tedders, presuming I can acquire the parts and a service manual.
> thanks


The 328 required 35-40 hp according to JD's brochure, operators and service manuals - depending on which one you read. IMHO from a hp standpoint, even pulling a wagon in tow, you will have no problems. JD square balers have a gear reduction input which I feel allows for lower hp input. The 336 should demand no more hp input than the 328.

Some compact tractors have warnings against using a square baler as the castings/internals can't take the shock of the plunger cycling back and forth. Kubota use to have some of these warnings, though I forget the models. Check your manual.

Other things to consider is weight of the tractor vs the baler and especially if you tow a wagon behind. This can be a dangerous combo pushing the tractor down hill. I see no issues raking.

IMHO - the 336 was/is one of the best baler ever made. If it is in good shape, you've got a winner. IMHO, JD baler's are very tolerant and pound out beautiful bricks. New Holland is great too, but may require a little more attention, i.e. feeder rack/time adjustments, but once worked out, make as good of a bale as any.

Good luck,
Bill


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Vol said:


> I will also attest to the reliability of JD balers. I ran a 1971 24T until about 6 years ago. It made trouble free beautiful bales. Slow at 65 strokes per minute, but plenty fast enough for a fella packing wagons by hand.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Dragging the OP's post off topic....

Did you make the switch from the 24t to your MF inline - or did you try/use something else?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> And here NH hay equipment is seldom seen.....so what's your point?
> 
> Regards, Mike


That green dealer service here for hay equipment sucks.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mike10 said:


> To judge a product by the number of posts on a forum or for that matter the market share, is not going to lead you to accurate conculsions. There are other reasons for the number of posts about a particular brand besides being a poor product.
> 
> For many years NH had over half the sales of many hay tool products. That is no longer the case because other mfg's have vastly improved their product offerings, but they still own a significant portion of the market. With just the shear numbers out there over other brands, you will naturally have more people posting about a particular brand then others.
> 
> I have always wondered why people post on a forum instead of going to their dealer for an answer. The only thing I can figure is it is not easy for the the producer to get an answer from the right person at a dealership. It seems they must deal with the service manager instead of the person most likely to know the answer.


Mainly what I've found here is unless you spend at least a few hundred thousand dollars at a dealer for a new piece of equipment they are in absolutely no hurry to return your call, and the color of the equipment doesn't matter.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

leeave96 said:


> Dragging the OP's post off topic....
> 
> Did you make the switch from the 24t to your MF inline ?


Yes after about 30 months of info assembly.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

leeave96 said:


> The 328 required 35-40 hp according to JD's brochure, operators and service manuals - depending on which one you read. IMHO from a hp standpoint, even pulling a wagon in tow, you will have no problems. JD square balers have a gear reduction input which I feel allows for lower hp input. The 336 should demand no more hp input than the 328.


The following link is to the John Deere Technician Service Manual covering several of the JD balers including the 336. The minimum recommended horse power to operate a 336 is 40 hp.....and if you pull a wagon more hp is recommended. This info is on page 10-10-3.

This is a great manual for those that have the series listed in the beginning. I would probably print it off as I would not be surprised to see it disappear one day.

Regards, Mike

https://fermer.ru/files/v2/forum/134113/pres327328336337338tm1243.pdf


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> That green dealer service here for hay equipment sucks.


That better explains your statement on the rarity of green hay equipment in your area.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Ok, slightly off topic but while we are talking about balers.....Who actually invented the knotter? I assume NH? Did they have a patent on it? I never looked at a Deere knotter, are they virtually idential to NH?

Having a degee in Mech Engineering it truely amazes me what the engineers came up with 60 years ago before computers. The knotters off our 1958 NH 68 baler were used to get my neighbors NH 570 running agains. Same parts used for 40 years....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

John Appleby invented the knotter. It was eventually improved(McCormick).....and found its way to the square baler.

Regards, Mike

http://www.madehow.com/inventorbios/9/John-Appleby.html

And here is a good read about the evolution of the "hay press" to what we know today as the square baler.....from Farm Collector.

http://www.farmcollector.com/implements/hay-press-zmhz12fzbea?pageid=1#PageContent1

John Appleby(knotter), a Iowan named Innes(early self-tie baler), and Pennsylvania farmer Edwin Nolt(self-tie baler reality) were the major contributors to the development of the square baler. Others also contributed to its improvement worldwide.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Teslan said:


> If I was to buy a small square baler I would not consider a JD because of that auger. I don't even think the huge JD dealer even has any in stock.


I'm curious what type problem you encountered with the auger on a JD sq baler. I've never had a problem with auger on JD sq baler BUT I've never baled any Alfalfa either. As to not seeing a new JD small sq baler on dealer lot I doubt a large quantity of new small sq balers are sold every yr but your location may be different than mine..


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

[quote name="Teslan" post="731106" timestamp=I don't even think the huge JD dealer even has any in stock. I was told a couple years ago that they had sold one in 3 years and the guy just wanted it because it was 
[/quote]

Funny, now that you mentioned that I don't remember seeing a new sq baler on the local JD lot for a long time. Plenty of rb. New holland dealer has multiple balers of the three sizes.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> I'm curious what type problem you encountered with the auger on a JD sq baler. I've never had a problem with auger on JD sq baler BUT I've never baled any Alfalfa either. As to not seeing a new JD small sq baler on dealer lot I doubt a large quantity of new small sq balers are sold every yr but your location may be different than mine..


never ran one. I just don't like augers in hay equipment and that one is a big one in those balers


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The 336 may say 40 hp but 30-35 in a utility tractor baling onto the ground would be more than enough. My little Kubota with 42 hp doesn't even notice the 336 even with ac on and over 300 bales an hour. I've run an MF 224, 228 and my JD 348 with it as well, all worked well.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The 336 may say 40 hp but 30-35 in a utility tractor baling onto the ground would be more than enough. My little Kubota with 42 hp doesn't even notice the 336 even with ac on and over 300 bales an hour. I've run an MF 224, 228 and my JD 348 with it as well, all worked well.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

He was located in Maryland..They grow stuff down there! They have some pretty nice conditions. That being said, auger balers here in the NE part of the country can and are troublesome if you get fine hay or really thick long stem stuff that was a pinch damp.. DOH! it will tie a knot in the auger so fast it will blow your mind! Dull knives will give you some serious issues too. 
My brother and father hayed for years with a NH 2120 4wd pulling a Nh 310 w/kicker and hay wagon with my brother stacking the wagon. That rig was only 43 engine hp and did just fine. That Massey will handle haying with ease. Hydros will too but some have on off ptos and they break with out a soft start. 
I do hydraulics for a living, and in my book Kubota has the best system in a compact tractor. But Im not sure I would want to pull a plow all day or a haybaler and wagon combo? Its gonna get HOT! And heat kills them pretty fast. 
Most of the new stuff is pretty darn effective at combating heat but a lot of the "yuppie" rigs are not. If your yuppie rigs loader wont lift the rear wheels off the ground (with out ballast mind you) it is most likely not going to do well pulling a hard load for a long time.. it wasnt designed to. 
Haying a few acres.. no problem, doing it day in day out for a month and a half... mmmm ... it aint gonna be happy. 
My advice, keep it greased up good every time yoy use it, knotter knives sharp and adjusted correctly and chamber knives sharp ans adjusted proper. Bale length and tightness is all you need to play with until your happy. 
Best wishes and dont get frustrated its easy to do lol.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

The only problem I have with JD Green is the apparent gold infused in the paint according to pricing. You'll notice that I own a JD Green gold laced paint tractor that I bought new in January after our hoity toity New Holland dealer basically didn't want to bid on over $100k worth of equipment we were purchasing. Sorry. Not gonna make you take my money.

After that experience with the local NH dealer... there'll always be a green tractor, Vermeer baler, and Krone equipment. Thanks to the horrible customer service from NH, I found 3 great dealers in my area.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Mike10, I can answer your question in several ways, as to the reasons people get on here rather than go to the dealership. Around here anyway..
Both equipment shops here, the big JD shop, and the Case, Massey, Hesston, Vermeer and everything else shop are now right at $118/hour. No one is happy about that except the shops themselves. 
In addition to that, the techs are about the age of my kids. Having had experience with some of them I really do not like paying that shop rate and having to train a tech. I literally have taught some of the younger guys on some pieces of equipment. They are competent in some areas and lacking in others. 
With that being said, there are three guys between the two dealerships that are much like yourself, very knowledgeable. The difficulty comes in getting something in to one of them, as everyone knows who the good ones are and they are requested more often than not. Unfortunately for us, they do service calls also, in a very large area, and are rarely at the shop.
It is much faster to get on here and ask a question and get the correct response than to take something in to the shop. At least for the mechanically inclined person anyway. 
I have the benefit of having a cell number or two if I get in a bind. I rarely need it and I sure don't overuse it. Not everyone has that luxury. 
In a separate but related topic, I have been joking recently about starting up a phone based consultant business for equipment repairs. I have been talking three people through diagnosis and repairs of their equipment this year. So far, so good, and text pics have helped also.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Wow! $118/hr for an area of the county that should have a relatively low cost of living...So what are the techs making per hour? Or is it that there aren't any other shops around so they can get away with that rate? The chevy dealer is town just clicked over $100/hr and their business tanked. My buddy is in the shop and they are rarely busy anymore...The local Case IH dealer is at $85/hr...


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Just like the person who says product A is the best and another person who says product A is a junk, it is all in the eyes of the beholder. My eyes and my assumptions are based on our local area and I sometimes forget that not all people have the same opportunities and options that the people in this area have.

I know we should also limit access to us techs for financial reasons, but we look at people who come in our door as neighbors and friends first and customers second.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

In addition to the $118 an hour. Sometimes mileage charges. For me it's the waiting to be repaired when hay needs baling now more than anything. That is what sends me to forums and the internet for help. Then add the cost of any parts and that repair bill can be huge. So the parts cost can't go down so much but if a person can fix it themselves they save hundreds and maybe thousands.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I can see your point with a mechanical breakdown, but a large portion of the posts, at least for the NH equipment, could be handled by a phone call. That is probably what intrigues me. Can you not talk to the right person at your local dealership or do they just not know anything?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mike10 said:


> I can see your point with a mechanical breakdown, but a large portion of the posts, at least for the NH equipment, could be handled by a phone call. That is probably what intrigues me. Can you not talk to the right person at your local dealership or do they just not know anything?


Thankfully I don't have that many repairs. But when I call our Massey Dealer the service manager seems to know just as much as the mechanics. That isn't saying the mechanics aren't good, but that the service manager is that good. For me he generally can tell me what to do or what might be the problem on nearly anything I've called about. The posts I see here are mostly baler things that there aren't that many techs around that can answer right from the phone around here. At least from what I remember when we had small balers that had problems fairly often.

My repairs have more to do with sprinkler pivots, pipelines, and pumps lately. Those are pretty straightforward. You can see the problems usually But I had one last summer the vexed the techs so much that they had to call Reinke headquarters for help. Finally after two months they got it figured out. They were trying to save me money sort of and did easy fixes first before figuring it out it was the more expensive fix. But they were more then fair in their billings after they couldn't fix it the first couple of times.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I called a large local NH dealer one time. Everyone was polite and I ended up getting the answer from the service manager, but I just felt out of place. I felt like they really weren't set up to direct me to the person that needed to answer my question. I think I also felt sheepish because I don't ever use the dealer for service. I do buy 10-12k a year in parts from them so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad...


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PaMike said:


> I called a large local NH dealer one time. Everyone was polite and I ended up getting the answer from the service manager, but I just felt out of place. I felt like they really weren't set up to direct me to the person that needed to answer my question. I think I also felt sheepish because I don't ever use the dealer for service. I do buy 10-12k a year in parts from them so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad...


That much in parts they should answer your questions. Isn't parts like 1/3 or more of a dealerships profits?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Teslan said:


> That much in parts they should answer your questions. Isn't parts like 1/3 or more of a dealerships profits?


I guess I don't want to be "that guy" that always calls into the dealer for free advice...I am sure every dealer has a couple of those people. I guess one 10 minute phone call every 8 years and 80k in parts sales isn't too bad...


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PaMike said:


> I guess I don't want to be "that guy" that always calls into the dealer for free advice...I am sure every dealer has a couple of those people. I guess one 10 minute phone call every 8 years and 80k in parts sales isn't too bad...


i agree. I kinda feel a bit weird when I've called the few times I've had. But while we haven't spent that much in parts we sure have on actual equipment.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Mike10, in my case I do and have spent a lot of time talking to folks at the dealerships. I've just found that every year goes by their level of knowledge and service declines. Just like the issues I had over my brand spanking new discbine having quality control issues and not set up right. Finally pushed them enough that they took a look at it but it really didn't accomplish much. I ended up just doing it myself. When the general manager stands there and tells you the roll gap should be no closer than 1/4" and 1/2" is even better, even after I explain that is totally not what the manual says, or the NH videos on YouTube explain, etc. you eventually just get tired of arguing. Oh and then reminded me that "this is why flail machines are better".

I also like to take my baler in every other year for a checkup. Why anymore I don't know. I told them not to grease it this time when they were done as I didn't need to pay them to do that. They did it anyway. And must use the battery powered grease guns and have the most brilliant tech doing it. Took me an hour to clean all the grease they had left all over the baler. And I mean all over it. Grease in places nowhere even near fittings. Looked like two techs must have gotten in a grease gun fight with my baler in between. There were several places that I scooped up blobs of grease that wouldn't even fit in both hands cupped together. All over the baler. This left the dealer shop that way. Same story when I picked the discbine back up from having them "correct" the setup errors. Now when a shop can't even take pride in greasing equipment correctly there are issues.

I know many of you have much better service, but many of us do not.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

That's crazy there would be that much grease on your equipment. Have you mentioned it to them?


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Yeah but never really gotten any kind of response just the subject changed. And I guess I'm over trying to prove a point with them so just have the mindset of it is what it is, try to use them as little as possible and move on. I used to feel pretty loyal to this dealership and NH equipment but experiences over the last couple years have changed that and I'll be shopping around more when it comes time to upgrade in the future.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

I understand the aggravation Trot. I've gone in for a simple troubleshoot question of the sequence of relays operate what. The service department reply, "Bring it in or buy the manual." Despite I've purchased 7 new pieces of equipment in the last 5 years, not to mention parts. I bought so much because the salesman I worked with knew to give me his best price upfront or I'd go somewhere else. The honest salesman left shortly after new ownership (owner bought dealership back) and started this gouging. I know it's gouging too, I purchased the same mower as my neighbor. Mine was 6900, his was 7800, cash. Difference was salesman, mine was the honest guy, his was the owner.

Loyalty has not gotten me far, even when I mentioned give me your best price, don't start off in outer space. I'm dealing with a couple of other dealers not even in the state because my local dealer is ridiculous. The first offer was dropped $7000 instantly and then an hour later he took $3000 more off. Yet still $10,000 higher than elsewhere, I can eat shipping at his price. No sense of being beholden to a dealer, their shop is going to gouge you either way. Warranty work is transferable. I don't mind spending a few hundred bucks extra if I'm going to get better service but play games, I'll go elsewhere.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

PaMike said:


> Wow! $118/hr for an area of the county that should have a relatively low cost of living...So what are the techs making per hour? Or is it that there aren't any other shops around so they can get away with that rate? The chevy dealer is town just clicked over $100/hr and their business tanked. My buddy is in the shop and they are rarely busy anymore...The local Case IH dealer is at $85/hr...


The short answer to your first question is less than 30.
They won't jump ship either because of the proprietary computer stuff in the newer equipment. I considered opening a shop and stealing several of them. 
Other than the two local dealerships, we have to go to Billings, Montana or down to Riverton, Wyoming. Roughly 90 and 159 miles respectively.
New Holland put the squeeze on the dealership in Billings a few years ago, and when it bit them in the ass they pulled all of the parts and dealership rights. For two years plus we had to go to Belgrade, Montana if we wanted parts. It cost them dearly in market share. They are just recently back with Torgesons in Billings. At least we can get semi local parts again.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I do not like to grease a machine because I do not like to get greasy, but I do it and would argue against someone not wanting me to grease the machine that is in the shop. You would be surprised at how much more you notice small problems that are not that evident otherwise.

I always clean the fittings off so there is no grease visible on them to collect dirt. I think this gets me into trouble because if I do not tell the owner I have greased the machine, they will grease the machine themselves needlessly, especially new machines, since they see no grease on the fitting.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I really have mixed feelings about people calling in for advise. Speaking as a service person, I don't mind helping someone out and as someone who is swamped in season, the phone call actually helps me out because many of the problems can be handled over the phone.

When I wear my dealer principle hat, I can see where some dealerships would not want their techs on the phone which takes away revenue from them. It is not the time on the phone that is the problem but the research time also required to solve a problem. The tech is costing the dealership money with no return.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> I'm curious what type problem you encountered with the auger on a JD sq baler. I've never had a problem with auger on JD sq baler BUT I've never baled any Alfalfa either. As to not seeing a new JD small sq baler on dealer lot I doubt a large quantity of new small sq balers are sold every yr but your location may be different than mine..


Jim, I can answer your question about why some people hate the auger in the JD small square. We had a 328 and baled a lot of alfalfa with it. There are certain very rare conditions in which alfalfa will exude a sticky sap that will result in the windrow wrapping on the auger. It is an extremely rare occurrence, but infuriating when it happens. Otherwise there is no reason to avoid JD because of the auger in my opinion.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Thank-you for explaining that. I've never understood the complaint. Doesn't happen in other crops.



Gearclash said:


> Jim, I can answer your question about why some people hate the auger in the JD small square. We had a 328 and baled a lot of alfalfa with it. There are certain very rare conditions in which alfalfa will exude a sticky sap that will result in the windrow wrapping on the auger. It is an extremely rare occurrence, but infuriating when it happens. Otherwise there is no reason to avoid JD because of the auger in my opinion.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Attached some older pictures, I've forgotten my old estimates but that little kubota has done somewhere handy to 30,000 square bales then spends its winters running snow blower. I have more tractors now so now it just rakes/teds/loads/moves wagon etc but it can still bale no trouble. The only major repair was a front outer bevel gear lost a seal in the winter on its snowplowing route and burned up all the bearings. Its got a bit less than 3000 hours on it now.

The baling team 336/348 parked:









Basket on the back of the Kubota L5030 / 336 combo









Shot of the hitch on the 336


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

mike10 said:


> I really have mixed feelings about people calling in for advise. Speaking as a service person, I don't mind helping someone out and as someone who is swamped in season, the phone call actually helps me out because many of the problems can be handled over the phone.
> 
> When I wear my dealer principle hat, I can see where some dealerships would not want their techs on the phone which takes away revenue from them. It is not the time on the phone that is the problem but the research time also required to solve a problem. The tech is costing the dealership money with no return.


Far off topic.

As for OP, compact tractors will do the job. They will not like it. BTDT. Small amount of use? Sure.

As to dealership v forum: I did not see the private party sale brought up? I have a great Kubota dealer. And a great NH/Vermeer dealer. I have spent a lot of money (to me) at both. I have no problem calling either. I have a JD. I have asked questions at a dealer with good results. But for better advice, I ask here. Guy @ dealer I talk to only knows what he pulls up about my Deere (1983 2320 Swather).

I would bet a lot of people asking here or elsewhere do not have a good dealer reltionship. For one reason or another.

I know if I go to a small dealership in Indiana and buy a quart of oil, I can get good advice on all my NH equipment purchased in MN. Not the case everywhere. Hats off to you and the service you provide!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Mike10, in my case I do and have spent a lot of time talking to folks at the dealerships. I've just found that every year goes by their level of knowledge and service declines. Just like the issues I had over my brand spanking new discbine having quality control issues and not set up right. Finally pushed them enough that they took a look at it but it really didn't accomplish much. I ended up just doing it myself. When the general manager stands there and tells you the roll gap should be no closer than 1/4" and 1/2" is even better, even after I explain that is totally not what the manual says, or the NH videos on YouTube explain, etc. you eventually just get tired of arguing. Oh and then reminded me that "this is why flail machines are better".
> 
> I also like to take my baler in every other year for a checkup. Why anymore I don't know. I told them not to grease it this time when they were done as I didn't need to pay them to do that. They did it anyway. And must use the battery powered grease guns and have the most brilliant tech doing it. Took me an hour to clean all the grease they had left all over the baler. And I mean all over it. Grease in places nowhere even near fittings. Looked like two techs must have gotten in a grease gun fight with my baler in between. There were several places that I scooped up blobs of grease that wouldn't even fit in both hands cupped together. All over the baler. This left the dealer shop that way. Same story when I picked the discbine back up from having them "correct" the setup errors. Now when a shop can't even take pride in greasing equipment correctly there are issues.
> 
> I know many of you have much better service, but many of us do not.


I had a high school kid working for us awhile back, had to keep him away from my 20v grease gun, even with a pistol grip he made a hell of a mess. Of course, by the end of the day he looked like somebody knocked him down and rolled him around in grease and old oil.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mike10 said:


> I really have mixed feelings about people calling in for advise. Speaking as a service person, I don't mind helping someone out and as someone who is swamped in season, the phone call actually helps me out because many of the problems can be handled over the phone.
> 
> When I wear my dealer principle hat, I can see where some dealerships would not want their techs on the phone which takes away revenue from them. It is not the time on the phone that is the problem but the research time also required to solve a problem. The tech is costing the dealership money with no return.


I don't like bothering techs at any dealership regardless of color.

1: I fix everything myself except for injection pumps, injectors and hydrostats. They don't owe me any free advice as I haven't bought anything from them far as hay equipment.

2: Like with my baler problem earlier this year, I got an answer on this forum a full day before the local NH dealer called me back. Found out later the baler tech was busy trying to make a shiny brand new NH round baler actually make a bale. I have zero issues with a dealer not getting back to me if their techs are honestly busy. Most of the time I work on the equipment in the off season anyways, if I'm working on my round baler with a foot of snow on the ground the "our tech is out in the field working on a baler" is not gonna fly. If they don't get back to me because they expect me to bring it in for service, I'll go elsewhere, whether or not I actually bought it there, they have a responsibility to service that color paint regardless of who's actually doing the work. I've already handled an issue or two with the brand boiler I sell at nine at night thru nothing but texts and photo's and I wasn't the dealer that sold it to em or installed it, I just happen to be the dealer that always returns phone calls asap.


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