# Hay equipment



## BLC

I am interested in putting up my own hay so I need to purchase the equipment to do so. I have an International Harvester 574 tractor, pto is 52 hp. with a hydraulic pump output of 11.9 gpm. I have looked at some of Vermeer products as well as Massy Ferguson balers, but am open to other options. I would like to do round bales . Also since I am just beginning/learning I would like to purchase used equipment to keep the cost down. Any advice on balers and mowers would be greatly appreciated.


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## Palmettokat

BLC, welcome to Haytalk. My recommendations are very basic and I am in my third year and about third year of haytalk which has been major helpful to me even with great friend who does my cutting and baling. Even with his experience with the support of haytalk have been able to bring improvements to the operation.

On buying used equipment: do not get emotional in the process. There is no great deal you can live without. I have bought small excavator without seeing it based upon third party professional's inspection report. Have looked at used equipment and miss things myself. If buying used find dealer who is a hay equipment person (many around here will admit they are not) and will review with you your needs and their equipment. Auctions are where trash often gets dumped. Not all sold at all auctions are junk. First dealer I worked with years ago was professional and one thing he warned me about was local auctions. Funny seeing people way over paying even above new price as they get caught up in the bidding. You need someone who can lay out each piece you need so you don't end up with rake that is way too big or small for example with the mower and or baler.

I can not say enough about how great haytalk has been and continues to for me.


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## IH 1586

Will need approx budget you have in mind for your purchases to help narrow down options.


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## IH 1586

Balers are going to be 4x4 and probably a haybine or small pull type discbine (under 9 ft.)for your size tractor you have listed


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## BLC

Budget wise I was looking at about 10k for mower, rake and baler. But that’s flexible


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## KS John

How many acres and what kind of hay? Native grass hay require different equipment than alfalfa or other grasses.

Don't get in a hurry, I have acquired my equipment over the course of a few years from different sources. Bought my round baler at an auction for $1000 and did some repairs myself. There are bargains out there if you are mechanically inclined.

Also you may be able to get by with one or two bar rakes instead of a V rake in your situation, which should save you some money.

Also don't get in a hurry and buy the first thing you see. If it is meant to be it will happen.


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## BLC

Starting with about 50 acres of native grasses and then see where we go from there


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## BLC

Any recommendations on a haybine or discbine?


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## r82230

52 HP will run a 9' sickle bar (haybine) OK, but will be short on a discbine.IMHO. I got 115 (98 PTO) HP in front of a 9' didcbine and with heavy (2+ ton) hay it's a little short with a small hill.

Larry


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## KS John

Do you really need the discbine for native grass? In my part of Kansas, just east of the flint hills, we have bluestem which will dry in a day or so in the summer just laying it down with a mower. Just my thoughts.. 52 should pull a 8-9 foot disc mower okay, but you would want it on a cradle.


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## Hayjosh

I wouldn't even want to imagine mowing 50 acres with a sickle bar machine. Sure, that's how it used to be done. Used to. It's hard enough for me to do half that with a haybine.


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## BLC

If a haybine is used, is a rake still necessary?


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## Hayjosh

You'd still need a rake to gather up the windrows.


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## skyrydr2

If my fields looked like my neighbors fields after hay I would be tarred and feathered! Holy smokes what a horrible looking mess.. he has a disc mower and it is either very very dull or he is going 20 mph mowing! A good 9' sickle conditioner is a great machine for a beginner especially something like a newholland 488. You can down 4-5 acres an hour easy with one and not kill your self.
On the east side of the big river we need to tedd most of the time to get hay to dry, you may not have to. 
With only 52 hp I would stick with a tow type rake either pinwheel or roller bar, rotary rakes are super sweet but expensive and suck up hp quick on hills. 
As for a baler? Never made a round bale so I'm no help there! Small squares yes.
If your a 1 man show then rounds for sure are easier as long as you have the trailers and tractor/with loader to handle them.


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## Tx Jim

That brings back memories from over 25 yrs ago. A few yrs after I began custom hay baling I decided a V rake would decrease my baling time. A long time custom baler that I had know from being employed at an equipment dealer made it a point to tell me how dumb I was wasting time raking. Fast forward to today & very few people in my area bale hay that hasn't had 2 or more swathes raked together..


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## r82230

Hayjosh said:


> You'd still need a rake to gather up the windrows.


There was a time, I didn't need a rake. I would cut into narrow swathes and directly RB bale that 'hay'. The so called hay was mainly grass (OG) and it was early/mid July. Which in my neck of the woods, OG is dead ripe and almost as dry as straw, plus I would cut one day and bale 3 days later, so it almost looked like straw . The RFV/RFQ might not have even registered on a scale, but it was better than feeding 'snowballs' to the cows in the winter.. That was also back in the day, where we seemed didn't get rain every 3 days or less.

Larry


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## Trillium Farm

The weather has changed in the last 20 or so years and now is more unpredictable than ever.

It may vary from area to area but the aim in cutting is to do that as quickly as possible for dry down, next is raking and here it depends, if you want the hay to keep curing while raked get a rotary, if not a roll bar or ground driven rake will do, a Tedder is advisable. but not always necessary, depending on your area and finally a baler; here again speed is a plus as you always run ahead of the weather.

The proper machinery allows you do this as quickly as possible and it doesn't have to be new, but you must have a realistic budget to meet needs.


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## Hayjosh

skyrydr2 said:


> rotary rakes are super sweet but expensive and suck up hp quick on hills.


What size rotary rake are you talking here because mine uses almost no power. My 52 hp PTO tractor doesn't even know it's back there.


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## Trillium Farm

Hayjosh said:


> What size rotary rake are you talking here because mine uses almost no power. My 52 hp PTO tractor doesn't even know it's back there.


Agreed, I too could not make sense of that sentence.


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## beggar

I got 2 50 hp. tractors that will pull an 8 ft. disc mower, and a vermeer 504 rebel hay roller.I use an 8 wheel

V drag rake. I would love to hay a cutter caddy but I'll just bend over and hook up and wait for better times.

Just poke along till you figure out what works for you. If you got 50 acres get a 3 pt. hay fork and piss ant your hay to the stack till you can do better. Don't buy a roller you can't pull. Good luck


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## MT hayer

Blc, did you get some equipment bought? It can be an exciting thing to do, going shopping for the unknown "good deal"..

I just came across this post and read through it. 50 acres isn't much and can be intimidating. Some might argue but for all practicle purposes a 9ft sickle mower or a 9 or 11 ft pull type swather would do fine. As long as you don't wrap whatever you buy around the power pole, or burn it to the ground, it can be used for trading material for the next piece of iron.

I know it would be tough, but I would recommend an 85 horse tractor of some color. It would open your options for your equipment imensly.


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## MT hayer

Blc, did you get some equipment bought? It can be an exciting thing to do, going shopping for the unknown "good deal"..

I just came across this post and read through it. 50 acres isn't much and can be intimidating. Some might argue but for all practicle purposes a 9ft sickle mower or a 9 or 11 ft pull type swather would do fine. As long as you don't wrap whatever you buy around the power pole, or burn it to the ground, it can be used for trading material for the next piece of iron.

I know it would be tough, but I would recommend an 85 horse tractor of some color. It would open your options for your equipment imensly.


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## 560Dennis

Taking another tac , be aware of maintenance or lack of . Some machine run on 40 acres and some are unlimited as example. You will have to educate yourself to look for the signs of equipment end of life signs. Welds at articulations, rotating shaft bearing wear , that will pertain to each machine task. 
I wasn't sure if I heard how much hay you were going to put away. 
I think your doing the right things by asking questions and getting mentors to help you decide the most efficient way to achieve your goal .good luck ,good post ,I'm learning from the responses


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## SwingOak

Trillium Farm said:


> Agreed, I too could not make sense of that sentence.


I run a Kuhn rotary rake with 40 PTO hp, it doesn't slow the tractor down at all.


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## cjsr8595

buy a disc mower 5-6 disc, and bar rake and a decent 4x4 or preferably 4x5 baler. We used a ford 3600 for years to cut, rake and bale our hay with an old Vermeer 504c. It wasn't pleasant but could be done. Those 574's I think have more power than advertised, we used to pull a vicon km241 discbine with it. It would run as fast as you could sit in the seat. Those are my 2cents, like everyone ymmv. Good luck and have fun.


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## DSLinc1017

Ok, so it's good to see that it's not only me that are reading posts from over a year ago and pretending that it was yesterday! 
The person who started this thread hasn't been active for a year. Perhaps making hay wasn't in his/her future.


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## Trillium Farm

DSLinc1017 said:


> Ok, so it's good to see that it's not only me that are reading posts from over a year ago and pretending that it was yesterday!
> The person who started this thread hasn't been active for a year. Perhaps making hay wasn't in his/her future.


The OP had a dream but was not based on reality and I guess when he faced it he realized that it wasn't as easy and above all as cheap as he thought. Some people, most of them with some mechanical handiness, think that if they buy some old decrepit equipment cheaply they'll put back in workable conditions; very few do it. When haying the condition of the equipment and therefore its ability to perform as intended is paramount as is speed. How many times do we hear: I have all the time in the world, but it's not time that gets you it's the *WEATHER! *There are facets of the operation that require better machinery or at least well operating machinery than other facets, this is where one on a budget must allocate funds wisely. If it were so easily all farmers would be millionaires, or are we and want to keep it a secret.


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## JD3430

Trillium Farm said:


> The OP had a dream but was not based on reality and I guess when he faced it he realized that it wasn't as easy and above all as cheap as he thought. Some people, most of them with some mechanical handiness, think that if they buy some old decrepit equipment cheaply they'll put back in workable conditions; very few do it. When haying the condition of the equipment and therefore its ability to perform as intended is paramount as is speed. How many times do we hear: I have all the time in the world, but it's not time that gets you it's the *WEATHER! *There are facets of the operation that require better machinery or at least well operating machinery than other facets, this is where one on a budget must allocate funds wisely. If it were so easily all farmers would be millionaires, or are we and want to keep it a secret.


There are some VERY wealthy farmers on HT. I know, I was told so. Some are as wealthy or wealthier than Nancy Pelosi.  She's only worth 150 million.

But for the rest of us mere mortals, what I have learned is that HAY is a very tough business that I love. Between purchasing, fueling, maintaining & insuring equipment and renting or building barns to store hay and equipment, fertilizing, and WEATHER, I don't know how it all gets done with profit. I have to supplement with other forms of income.


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## Ray450

He said he had a budget of $10k for a cutter, rake and baler. If it can be done , I took a very wrong path this year with my first year of haying.


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## AKFARMER

Ray450 said:


> He said he had a budget of $10k for a cutter, rake and baler. If it can be done , I took a very wrong path this year with my first year of haying.


I agree, especially when you add in the additional complications that you can, and often do, get with used equipment.


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## Edd in KY

Buying used equipment you will find that some brands bring a premium price. That premium can be as much as double. I do not think in most cases they will do twice the work, or are twice as reliable, or last twice as long, or that parts will be twice as available. Do your homework, ask folks that are actually working with off brands how they like their stuff. For example: I cut hay with a Reese Drum mower that at auction cost me about a 3rd of what the same size disc mower would have cost. I have never regretted that purchase.

Are you going to sell the hay or feed it? If sell, you need a pretty bale. If you are going to feed it to your own cows, pretty is worth nothing. Some balers do not make pretty bales, and so these balers often sell for less.

I have 2 old New Idea bar rakes that are ground drive, and belt driven. They cost me a 3rd of what a NH bar rake will bring at auction. I have raked hundreds and hundreds of acres of grass hay and never broken a belt. Internet chatter would indicate that the NH rake guys can not say that about their gear box problems.

How many hours of tractor seat does it take to make up for a $2000 difference in rake price?

So in the end, do your homework, ask actual users, go to auctions and don't fall in love. Be prepared to walk away if the price is too high, and shop in the off season. There are a lot more items for sale on the internet when it is off-season. The cheapest time to buy a boat is in a blizzard.


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## SwingOak

AKFARMER said:


> I agree, especially when you add in the additional complications that you can, and often do, get with used equipment.


If there's two things you can count on somebody lying about, it's horses and used farm equipment for sale.


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## bamacrazy

Thanks to the OP for posting this! Lots of great info. I'm in a similar situation. My tractors are an old MF 175 with rear remote and a new Kubota mx 5400 with loader. I'm looking for a good used 504 and a cutter and rake that would be easy to work on.


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