# Seed Cleaning, a crack on Monsanto's lawsuit wall



## olschoolsteel

I saw this pop up in the St Louis Post Dispatch. I think this is good news for the small time farmer, if there are any left out there. I remember seeing the seed cleaners out and about in the fall. Now I dont think there is even a US based seed cleaner left in the US (I might be wrong on this) since Monsanto's lawyers started chasing farmers around the country. I saw one buried in the woods, rusted out and growed over from non-use. Another is parked with the farmers antique tractors as it is truly a relic that has been effectively outlawed by continuous lawsuits. If I had one, I think I'd leave it parked too.

The future (I hope)

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/now-for-something-different-seed-company-lets-farmers-replant-its/article_197e7a8a-4277-5008-85c8-7f09c8a283a7.html

The sad past of Maurice Parr and fellow seed cleaners

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/agricultural-giant-battles-small-farmers/

http://www.fr.com/files/Uploads/publications/DSU-Medical-Corp-v-JMS-Co-Ltd/Monsanto_v_Parr_NDIN_4-07-cv-00008_Apr_22_2008.pdf

From what I understand, Monsanto subpoenaed Parr's bank and got his bank deposits, then continued to file suits against everyone that wrote him a check or did business with him, further spreading their love of lawsuits to the small farmers.

I dont know how you big guys do it. Way more overhead to worry about than 15-20 yrs ago.


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## mlappin

Still a guy that cleans seed in the area, has a portable seed cleaner that he brings to you, he mostly runs rye or other cover crop seeds.


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## swmnhay

I have a cousin that cleaned seed before RR beans.To be certified to clean RR beans he was to take a sample from every load of beans he cleaned from farmers.He refused so they wouldn't certify him.After a few yrs and as custom cleaning fell off he did get certified but no longer custom cleaned for farmers.

RR beans were the death of many custom cleaners.Probably 90% of them closed after RR and the regulations they had to grow and clean RR beans.


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## olschoolsteel

The old idea of saving back a small portion of your harvest, and having it cleaned to be used as seed is far cheaper for a farmer than buying special prepped "seed' at an extensive mark up every year.

I had even heard, but can confirm or prove, that most GMO manufacturers have implanted a "terminal" gene in their products. This means that after the first growth cycle the harvested produce is 100% infertile. This is to prevents their intellectual property from growing successive generations without Monsanto getting their cut. I am finding conflicting info on this so it is probably false. Hard to find reliable sources on this type of information.


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## mlappin

It's an old wives tale, it should be though, would keep other countries from saving seed and avoiding the tech fee like American farmers are stuck with.


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## stack em up

We used to clean our own seed beans and oats with a Clipper 1b fanning mill. Spent my spring break cleaning beans for neighbors. Last year we saved seed beans was 1996. Still have the fanning mill.


olschoolsteel said:


> The old idea of saving back a small portion of your harvest, and having it cleaned to be used as seed is far cheaper for a farmer than buying special prepped "seed' at an extensive mark up every year.
> 
> I had even heard, but can confirm or prove, that most GMO manufacturers have implanted a "terminal" gene in their products. This means that after the first growth cycle the harvested produce is 100% infertile. This is to prevents their intellectual property from growing successive generations without Monsanto getting their cut. I am finding conflicting info on this so it is probably false. Hard to find reliable sources on this type of information.


If you think about it, how could that be true? That would mean any seed produced would be sterile, thus no seed could be produced.


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## endrow

Thousands of farmers here in the east reclean and seed their own cereal grains. On our farm here we run about 1200 bushel of cereal grain threw the cleaner a year for our own use. The way I understand the first generation of Roundup Ready seed is no longer protected by Patent by Monsanto because it expired. We are going to check that out to be sure and if so we will plant some First Generation seed and use it for next year's double-crop beans. I believe we could have did it for this season but we were not aware of it when we planted in the spring.


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## olschoolsteel

Stack,

What that would mean is exactly what you typed. All grain would be infertile, making it pointless for anyone to save back any seed for replant, thus driving you to come back yr after yr to purchase new fertile seed. As I said though, probly a rumor or another anti-GMO wives tale. I cant find evidence to support or debunk it.

It is nice to hear that some see cleaning still happens outside of patented plants. To those that do, I wonder if cleaning your own seed for the next year vs buying patented seed for the next yr drives your decision on which to grow?

Patented corn and soybeans vs unpatented cereals and cover crops you can clean and reuse for the next year?


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## swmnhay

Patents and Technologies are 2 different things with different sets of rules.

The infertile gene was shot down I believe because imagine if that crossed with other crops.


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## stack em up

olschoolsteel said:


> Stack,
> What that would mean is exactly what you typed. All grain would be infertile, making it pointless for anyone to save back any seed for replant, thus driving you to come back yr after yr to purchase new fertile seed. As I said though, probly a rumor or another anti-GMO wives tale. I cant find evidence to support or debunk it.


Let's think about this here oldschool, if it were true that there was a "terminal" gene in a GMO seed, how would any seed be produced? It's not like they whip it up in a lab, it's still grown the same way conventional beans are. The origination of any GMO is done in a lab though. It could be done "organically" but would take somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 years of continual breeding to reach the same end they can do by altering the DNA. The time span of just creating a "new" corn hybrid takes 7 years from original mating of the inbreds to it ending up in a bag to plant. Double haploid breeding speeds this process to 5 years, but it's still done by growing the seed and harvesting the offspring.

I had heard the wives tale about the gene. It literally stems from the movie Jurassic Park, where they created an enzyme the Dino's couldn't live without.


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## swmnhay

stack em up said:


> Let's think about this here oldschool, if it were true that there was a "terminal" gene in a GMO seed, how would any seed be produced? It's not like they whip it up in a lab, it's still grown the same way conventional beans are.
> ,


They would have to insert the gene in the yr before it is sold as seed.


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## IHCman

alot of small grains cleaned around here. Larger operations have the cleaner come to them. We Usually haul ours to the local co op elevator and have it cleaned.

Won't be long and the seed companies will figure out some trait to modify in wheat and barley so you have to buy your seed every year and not save seed.


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## stack em up

swmnhay said:


> They would have to insert the gene in the yr before it is sold as seed.


I guess that is possible, however unlikely. I know that the beans I spill loading them out in the spring always seem to grow.


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## luke strawwalker

swmnhay said:


> Patents and Technologies are 2 different things with different sets of rules.
> 
> The infertile gene was shot down I believe because imagine if that crossed with other crops.


It was called the "terminator gene". And that's precisely why it wasn't used.

Even the *possibility* of putting terminator genes in crops and possibly having it outcross into other strains caused such an uproar and public outcry that they "voluntarily" decided not to use it. They knew it would be a public-relations nightmare and probably cause a disastrous backlash against them if anything happened.

There's enough instances of "unforeseen consequences" and outcrossing with GMO's that I'm not a fan. If a guy chooses to plant them, that's his business. I planted Bt cotton one year, didn't see enough benefit to cover the cost, so quit using it. I didn't like that the stupid 'technology agreements' basically require you to sign away all your rights and basically make you a serf on your own farm for the sole benefit of the "company". Screw that.

I'd rather be poor and free than rich and a slave... Course most folks don't think like that anymore...

Later! OL J R


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## endrow

I really never heard about the seed being sterile after the first year. what Monsanto said back in 1996 is if you replanted their seed the gene would not have the same performance . They said the seed would grow, yield and mature the same way but if you sprayed it with RR,the plant may or may not be tolerant to Glyphosates. So back in 96 guys said gonna keep some seed and just spray with pursuit skip the R-UP. Well than stories went out guys saved RR seed and it was in its second year and sprayed it with R-UP by mistake and it did fine . Did not take long till lots of guys kept seed planted next year sprayed with R-UP and all was well. Monsanto got tough like signing Technology Agreements along with Jail Terms and massive Fines. Did not take long till most people started to follow the rules.I guess I know some never do .


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## olschoolsteel

I have to wonder if a team of Monsanto lawyers will shut this guy's co-op down if his customers are allowed to keep back a portion of their harvest for planting. Monsanto might have to lobby pretty heavy ($$$) to get their Dicamba beans patented, just to tell customers that their RR seeds are no good any longer and have to buy the new seed. This could get even more dicey if Monsanto stops putting out any former versions of their patented seeds. Then farmers wont have much of a choice but to buy the new stuff if they werent legally allowed to to save any back from previous harvests to plant the following spring.

I'm just spit-balling now.


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## swmnhay

I don't think the Terminator Gene was ever approved to be used on seed beans.There were some articles about it maybe 10 yrs ago.

Monsantos explination

http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/pages/terminator-seeds.aspx


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