# Thinking of starting out



## Redder

So I have the possibility of buying a 30 acre hay farm with equipment needed to run it. My biggest worry is would I be able to run just the farm and survive or would I need another job to make up the cost difference? Now truthfully the only thing I have done with hay was load unload so pretty much starting out.

Or would it be better to rent the land out for a few years work another job and help seeing as I would have equipment?

This Is in NW Alabama. Its a House/w farm type of deal


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## CockrellHillFarms

I'm not sure I could survive a week on 30 acres. Your gonna need a whole lot more land to make a living.


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## Redder

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. I know granted its 30 acres if I was to work a full time job and Hay for just the pleasure and extra cash that 30 acres Is going to take alot of time to work and I would probably lose money on it.


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## Teslan

What kind of equipment comes with it? Good equipment? Or equipment that you will have to spend money on? If you want to live in the country with some land and a house. Plus if you could hay it and work another job it sounds good depending on the price. I don't really know the market in Alabama for hay except from what I see here on Haytalk. I have a 30 acre field that I can usually make about 30,000 a year from. But that is here in Colorado.


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## Tim/South

Do you know what kind of hay is is? bermuda can make some coins as horse hay. That will vary according to your local supply and demand.

Is the baler a square or round baler?

Take a look at your local Craigs List and see what price others are offering hay. Those are usually the lower end prices for people with no regular customers or extra hay.

Years ago my FIL had my wife convinced I was losing thousands of dollars a year in hay. His opinion was that I should be marketing my Bermuda to Dairies. I told him I could not produce the quality of hay for milk cows. He would not shut up about it so I offered to rent him my good hay fields at a reasonable price and let him make the thousands. He got a stupid look on his face and has not mentioned it since.

Making hay looks easy from the road.


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## Vol

Tim/South said:


> Making hay looks easy from the road.


Sage advice.....

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Like Tim eluded to....need more info....1) what kind of grass....2) equipment????3)condition of fields...ie..soil samples4)capital.....?5)market......6) storage....?7) your skills(mechanical) and desire to learn....probably left some out but those are basics....need ya to answer em to give you a valid uneducated answer


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## Redder

I know the one tractor is a 05 MF other equipment other than the regular grass mower not sure. What kind of field have to ask them. I know there is something planted on it. 60x40 barn. my mechanical Is good and I'll be able to fix the equipment. Good desire to learn. I know it won't be easy work. Its more if I know I could live of it I would have no problem putting in the time


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## RockyHill

Welcome. Your answers to somedevildawg's questions will help you a lot. Full time hay farming 30 acres could be tight on cash flow. We live a conservative lifestyle and couldn't make it on 30 acres. Also consider if you buy the land & equipment with someone else raising the hay their farming abilities -- land & equipment both can have costly damages.


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## Tim/South

It would be a good life. I could not live off of 30 acres unless I grew something illegal north of the Rio Grande.

You could plant some food and cut down on the grocery bill. You could also raise a couple of calves and save as well.

As far a 30 aces providing a living, I just can not see how that would pay out.

We have a guy in our community who is Mr. Organic and he only has a few acres. He is part snake oil salesman and has developed a following for organic produce. He says he does well.

I have mentioned the alternatives because with 30 acres you might need a niche market product.


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## Redder

I also thought about ploughing the hay out and going another crop. But still 30 acres dose not seem like enough to live off of any crop. Plus the added expense of having to buy new tools and selling the old. Guess its a dream. the biggest thing would be to make the payments. If I can't do that guess I'll have to wait longer and go hobby farm.


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## barnrope

To make your living on 30 acres you better have a big garden and do a lot of canning, some pigs, and chickens for eggs and a cow for milk. Is poverty really poverty when you are having fun?


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## RockyHill

Don't give up your dream. Keep thinking, researching, learning, saving for the investment -- all the things that will help you when the right time comes. If you really want the farm life I'm sure there are farmers that would be glad to let you help out and gain hands on experience until you realize your dream.


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## ontario hay man

Why not buy the 30 and rent some more land if its reasonable price. I grow all my own food. I farm full time. My dad works out but me and the wife do his work for him and he pays our few bills we have in exchange. We only have 20 acres. We dont live high on the hog but we are happy and we know where our food comes from. Not some chemical filled factory food.we also rent 200 acres pretty cheap for hay, a bit of grain and pasture. It can be done. Good luck.


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## somedevildawg

Redder you live in beautiful country, I understand why you want to do this....just find out some of these answers. Even before you get the answers, I can tell you safely....go get a job...or if you have one, keep it....you'll need it. Producing hay "part time" will become a full time job only you don't get paid for the job .....helluva life this farming, gotta love it.....

Now if all of the equipment exists and is like that 05 Massey .....tell me more and take pics if you can

Equipment is without a doubt the largest capital outlay other than the land....

If its Bermuda gras....which I suspect, you will need a regular maintenance schedule for the field....this includes but is not limited to: lime application ....$100 per acre x 30 = 3k....herbicide application every year at least once a year....35 pa (sprayer? If not add 8 pa)....nitrogen....at a bare bones minimum....200 pa....potash (needed because you are removing the crop from the field) again bare bones minimum 150pa....diesel fuel....30 pa....insect control...35pa. These are just some of the expenses you will have to cover before you can make a decent crop of grass....these are very conservative figures, by no means are they accurate...but close/off the top of this hard cranium.

What about that field....had it been managed last year? If no....add more $....perhaps alot more dollars....soil samples needed here

Now for yield and what you can expect to gross (you can do the math on all of this and come up with some sort of P/L) 
Again, the type of grass is needed here...some difference in yield....but at those rates listed above expect about 7-8 tons pa per year.....maybe.

Once again, what kind of grass is going to dictate your market, as well as equipment.....for instance, if the baler is a square baler and its an older one....buy another one, just kidding but maybe not depending on...., but if the grass is Baha'i and not Bermuda, you'll find it hard to sell Baha'i in squares.....but Baha'i in rounds has a market (and btw less inputs) If there is a round baler there....all may change, any hay could be rolled and sold, just not going to be buying any new cars.....look at the market....good quality round rolls in the Deep South may bring $100 a ton.....gonna have to work to get that tho....good quality squares tho....there's that niche Tim was talking about.....gotta have more inputs and the right hay for the horsey buyer....

So, answer a few more questions when you can get the answers.....but if you had the right equipment, the right grass, you could make a dollar or two......but it ain't easy....hope it helps and good luck...btw welcome to haytalk


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## jrcrumiI

Welcome to the club..... it will be almost impossible to live off farming anything legal on only 30 acres. Here in the Southwest we get 4-5 cuttings of alfalfa. My rule of thumb when I was younger is it takes a section of row crops for a family of 2 to make any money. Add one kid better get a second section. Hay I look at very different. Out here where I get 4-5 harvest in need 320 acres to make a living, family of 4 with one in college. Hay to me is so much easier than row crop farming, some will think I am nuts. I water it, it grows, I mow it, I bale it, I load it, I get a check. I plant once every 4 years, inputs are lower than the row crops. So lets say I planted corn. Seed cost me 200.00, chemical are about the same, water would be about the same, harvest would be a heck of allot more. So I gee 200 bushels per acre at 4.69 today. That is 938 per acre for the year. Hay I average 3250 pounds per acre, I on a bad year get 4 cutting. That is 13000 per season, or 52000 per planting. In 65 pound small bales that is 800 bales for the life of that planting. Here cheap bales are 5.00. So that one planting gross profited 4000.00 compaired to 938.00 for that corn crop. I know everyone will say you need more fertility, so lets say I put a ton year on for those other 3 that is still only 1200 more per acre. And I do not have near the equipment cost of a row crop farmer. Now I painted a rosey picture, every crop has weather challenges so I didn't see a need to break them out.

Never forget a dream, if we settle we lose..


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## mlappin

Redder said:


> I also thought about ploughing the hay out and going another crop. But still 30 acres dose not seem like enough to live off of any crop. Plus the added expense of having to buy new tools and selling the old. Guess its a dream. the biggest thing would be to make the payments. If I can't do that guess I'll have to wait longer and go hobby farm.


IF it was me I'd buy it but plan on renting the 30 acres out to someone else until your more financially stable. I know exactly what it costs me to be a full time farmer, meet all the bills while not having to work in town, 30 acres of anything doesn't come close. I'm well diversified and wouldn't even begin to rely on a single crop to support all my needs, a few years of horrible weather (like this year) to make hay in and you could be in a dire financial situation, ditto if hay prices end up in the toilet.


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## mlappin

Redder said:


> Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. I know granted its 30 acres if I was to work a full time job and Hay for just the pleasure and extra cash that 30 acres Is going to take alot of time to work and I would probably lose money on it.


A person can make 30 acres of hay in their off time and still work a full time job in town.

I was making close to 80 in idiot bricks and working second shift as well. Decided one or the other had to go, town work sucks so kept the hay and started planting more.


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## Teslan

I don't know your financial situation, but how are you going to pay for it? A mortgage. Since it is under 35 acres you can get a regular residential mortgage, but those are complicated to get these days and they will not consider what income you potentially could make on the farm as part of your income for mortgage qualification purposes. They seem to like the standard employed people that get a W-2 with paystubs. Not us self employed folk. If you are self employed be prepared to document everything in your life. I know I can't get a mortgage because I deal in to much cash. I'm not sure a farm loan can be obtained for just 30 acres. Also depending on the type of mortgage the house that you say is on the property will have to be just about in perfect condition since nearly all residential mortgages are backed up by the government. So therefore government gets to impose idiotic rules. If you have cash then you are good to go.


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## Redder

Thanks guys. I won't give up on having myself a little farm one day that's for sure. Got good advice here. Money was really the deciding factor if I really would be able to go with it. Maybe not right now but some time in the future I'll figure it out..


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## somedevildawg

Redder said:


> Thanks guys. I won't give up on having myself a little farm one day that's for sure. Got good advice here. Money was really the deciding factor if I really would be able to go with it. Maybe not right now but some time in the future I'll figure it out..


Anytime redder.....sounds like you made a wise decision....don't give up on it, it can happen for ya, when it does you can always find sound advice here....


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## spacefarmer

Have you checked out www.landwatch.com? There are some farms with many acres out there but you need the advice of the "uneducated" here if you are going to make it work - though this is said by an "educated" person, so you had better check what the "uneducated" really think about it. Do you all know about this site? Of course I'm joking around, and I would guess that many have academic degrees here of some kind - while others have doctoral degrees through experience.


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## somedevildawg

spacefarmer said:


> Have you checked out www.landwatch.com? There are some farms with many acres out their but you need the advice of the "uneducated" here if you are going to make it work - though this is said by an "educated" person, so you had better check what the "uneducated" really think about it. Do you all know about this site? Of course I'm joking around, and I would guess that many have academic degrees here of some kind - while others have doctoral degrees through experience.


Lol, no I haven't checked that out but I will now....thx


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## Tim/South

spacefarmer said:


> Of course I'm joking around, and I would guess that many have academic degrees here of some kind - while others have doctoral degrees through experience.


I have a PhD.

Post Hole Digger.


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## spacefarmer

I knew there would be at least one around - PhD. It is probably pretty cost effective compared to some of those degrees!


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## somedevildawg

spacefarmer said:


> I knew there would be at least one around - PhD. It is probably pretty cost effective compared to some of those degrees!


And it wasn't given to him...no free lunches,......he had to earn it the hard way


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