# Bale Barron vs arcusin vs bale bandit vs nh stackwagon



## Redleg (Nov 22, 2016)

Great morning to everyone

A little background on me. I do 120 acres of hay. I have a regular day job. On average I get 3-4 cuttings per year (this year only 3). I have a NH Stackwagon 1049. I bought it sunk a bunch money at it tires new radiator springs etc. I have only used it one time Ithe barn I store in isn't tall enough to dump in so I bought a grapple and stack them in the barn. My question I am wondering is I and thinking on switching gears going to Barron/arcusin/bandit. My budget is 55k. As you can see I can't afford new. What works the best problems etc. I have also thought about building a small unloading zone for my stacker to then restock them with a grapple in my barn. I have seen bandits used for 20-30k are they worn out and shot for my 6k bale operation


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## MrLuggs (Dec 14, 2015)

Depends a lot on your situation - are you selling or just personal use?

If you're selling, are you by the bale by the ton?

Are you loading van trailers?

Assuming you're selling:

Bandit is more suited to by the ton, you need a long, heavy bale (42").

Baron is more suited to by the bale, since you have a 34 - 36" bale.

Baron has the advantage over the bandit that it uses twine instead of metal strapping, which is known to cause issues with the straps cutting twine. The twine is better for you/your customers because less chances of slicing yourself open or losing an eye while cutting straps

Arcusin's look nice, but they only have a single dealer in the US currently, and most parts have to come from Spain, but Dane, the guy who does import them seems to be great with his support, and they're only 14 bale bundles, which means more trips/time picking up bundles. And the price on them isn't much cheaper than a Baron.

All in all, especially with only 120 acres, seems like a stretch to make a big machine like a baron pencil out unless you're looking at getting more land or doing some custom work. Of course, I don't know your situation, perhaps your day job can cover it! If it was me, I'd probably stick with your current setup with the stackwagon and then grappling into the barn, it's probably the same amount of time/effort to dump the stackwagon and grapple stuff inside as it is to go load bundles out of the field, bring them back to the barn and grapple them inside.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Out of those options a bandit is gonna be your best bet. One in good shape can be had for 25k and once you learn the quirks they are pretty well trouble free. Selling the hay also becomes so much easier in the bundles.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Building tall enough to use your stackwagon is likely cheapest option.


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## Redleg (Nov 22, 2016)

I should include my situation selling both by the ton and bale. Ton works out best for me but a lot of folks prefer by the bale. I have the Amish south of me that is wanting to do a van trailer every month- month and a half. Right now it's hard for a one man band to do much stacking with the grapple etc. I take a trailer and leave it they call when they need another one. I do make nice bales NH BC5070 with bale skiis and top and side Hydroformatic tension, also It has the automatic acid kit. 
I have herd a lot of cons about the bandit. With cutting stings.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

My personal choice would be:

1) Arcusin much simpler than the other 2, less things to go wrong and not as finicky on bale size. As long as you have a dealer nearby. I think it also needs less hp

2) Baron

3) Bandit, don't like the metal band at all.

Your situation may require a bit of shuffling.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

Use your budget to build a nice 20 foot tall barn. We have a similar situation, 4th year with a 1049, and haymaking is a breeze now.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I very rarely cut strings, it won't happen if density is firm on the bales.....if it's soft, it will usually only cut one corner. Still has good integrity......metal bands hold the bundles very securely. Only have cut myself once and it was superficial......
If it were me, I'd buy a bandit......probably get a decent used one for around 25k, or make what I had go to work for me......


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

If managing 120 acres of hay, and a full time job, you need efficiency. I'd pick an option that reduces trips across the field. The Baron or Bandit hitched to the baler would do that. The minute you finish baling you can get to work on moving bundles.

This is my first year with a Bandit, and I didn't get it set up and going until later in our wet hay season so I have less than 40 bundles through it. Breaking or cutting strings was not an issue, and I was plenty hard on a few of my bundles trying to get a grip on handling them with a less than ideal bundle handling spear. I even pushed a few of them off my flatbed wagon, and dropping to the ground the bands and strings all held fine. I'd say the Bandit makes a pretty resilient package for not a lot of coin, in my limited experience.


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## swall01 (Jun 10, 2018)

Run with what you have because the options you have asked about will do 3 things: 1) increase your 4 letter vocabulary. 2) eat your lunch $$. 3) steal your time.

Best upgrade is to raise the barn roof.

My neighbor has a bandit and we get plenty of entertainment just watching from a distance.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

A couple thoughts.

If you want to load van trailers with one guy it's hard to beat bundles.

Why anyone would go to the expense and trouble and give up a third of the efficiency right up front with a 14 bale package is beyond me.

I had a 100 for years and had cut strings in some conditions. Operator error contributed at times. Got a 200 this year and it nearly never happens. I can't see any reason for the difference.

A tall hay barn is nice for any package.

You don't need 42" bales, 37/38 is my target.

I have provided entertainment to my neighbors for years, sometimes they return the favor.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

SVFHAY said:


> You don't need 42" bales, 37/38 is my target.


Did you run 37/38" with your 100, or just with your 200?


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

SVFHAY said:


> I have provided entertainment to my neighbors for years, sometimes they return the favor.


I'm 100% sure, 99% of the time, that rings true for 100% of us.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

paoutdoorsman said:


> Did you run 37/38" with your 100, or just with your 200?


Both, the 200 comes with a adjustable mechanism to center a shorter bale. The kicker is even pre drilled to add a spacer.

On the 100 I had a very elaborate setup. I imported a piece of spruce, had it pre cut to a 1 1/2" x3 1/2" ☺ and bolted it on the right side opposite of the kicker.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

SVFHAY said:


> Both, the 200 comes with a adjustable mechanism to center a shorter bale. The kicker is even pre drilled to add a spacer.
> 
> On the 100 I had a very elaborate setup. I imported a piece of spruce, had it pre cut to a 1 1/2" x3 1/2" ☺ and bolted it on the right side opposite of the kicker.


Did you add your high end import product to the kicker as well on the 100?


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

No, I didn't. If you go this route you may need to cut some material off the vertical plunger to clear the block. I did on the 100.

The straps are "25 apart so in a perfect world you could push that bale length into the lower 30's if you center it correctly. I never wanted that though. I am not crazy about the Baron bundles because they are more unstable in a stack and on a wagon due to the short bale, not to mention just more bundles to handle.

I think that 38" is about perfect. Adjust pricing if necessary and customers that want something different can look elsewhere. Never yet had a problem moving GOOD product,


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree, it's just a different math equation.....I make mine 40"-42" and as dense as I have to, works out to about 50-55# in Bermuda. The shorter the bales the tippier the bundles, just stands to reason, but you can stack three high in a van trailer with the shorter ones laying down.

We will have a new baler hitting the market soon that will allow you to make two 20" bales of higher density, approx 40# each tied together to form one larger bale that will accumulate through the Bandit. For those that want to do more math and put more product in a package, much, much faster, this will be a game changer. Completely new design in small balers, should have a working prototype in Louisville.......


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree, it's just a different math equation.....I make mine 40"-42" and as dense as I have to, works out to about 50-55# in Bermuda. The shorter the bales the tippier the bundles, just stands to reason, but you can stack three high in a van trailer with the shorter ones laying down.

We will have a new baler hitting the market soon that will allow you to make two 20" bales of higher density, approx 40# each tied together to form one larger bale that will accumulate through the Bandit. For those that want to do more math and put more product in a package, much, much faster, this will be a game changer. Completely new design in small balers, should have a working prototype in Louisville.......


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Way to bury the lead! How about a thread on this thing!



somedevildawg said:


> I agree, it's just a different math equation.....I make mine 40"-42" and as dense as I have to, works out to about 50-55# in Bermuda. The shorter the bales the tippier the bundles, just stands to reason, but you can stack three high in a van trailer with the shorter ones laying down.
> 
> We will have a new baler hitting the market soon that will allow you to make two 20" bales of higher density, approx 40# each tied together to form one larger bale that will accumulate through the Bandit. For those that want to do more math and put more product in a package, much, much faster, this will be a game changer. Completely new design in small balers, should have a working prototype in Louisville.......


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I agree, it's just a different math equation.....I make mine 40"-42" and as dense as I have to, works out to about 50-55# in Bermuda. The shorter the bales the tippier the bundles, just stands to reason, but you can stack three high in a van trailer with the shorter ones laying down.
> We will have a new baler hitting the market soon that will allow you to make two 20" bales of higher density, approx 40# each tied together to form one larger bale that will accumulate through the Bandit. For those that want to do more math and put more product in a package, much, much faster, this will be a game changer. Completely new design in small balers, should have a working prototype in Louisville.......


Never could get owen to give me a solid timeline on it or any real answers. I was really interested in it and a new bandit but with Owens ways I had to go the baron route.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

No you didn't HAVE to.........you just decided to, but I completely understand......be assured that the new baler will not make less than 20" bales by design. Good luck with the Baron, they are good machines and fast enuf. Owen isn't going to release it until it's ready, kudos to him for that......a complete redesign of the square baler is long overdue, the last thing he needs is problems out in the field because of not enough trial time. It's very difficult to bring a new product to market......especially nowadays.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> No you didn't HAVE to.........you just decided to, but I completely understand......be assured that the new baler will not make less than 20" bales by design. Good luck with the Baron, they are good machines and fast enuf. Owen isn't going to release it until it's ready, kudos to him for that......a complete redesign of the square baler is long overdue, the last thing he needs is problems out in the field because of not enough trial time. It's very difficult to bring a new product to market......especially nowadays.


Unfortunately I really had to. I had more than outgrown what one bandit could do and our market has gone to the smaller bales. I was throwing money out the window with 60lb bales. We first spoke about the new machine about a year ago and he kept saying spring 19' delivery and as the summer progressed we spoke more about it and i started getting the feeling we may or may not be able to get one next year which is when I'm gonna really need it. With the baron taking nearly all the new market share this product will be a game changer for GFC and the bale bandit. I can still see myself owning one in a couple years if and when it hits the market.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have faced similar problems.....lot of folk making small bales here too, same with rounds....easy enuf with rounds . I just price higher, which is certainly not a cure-all but it works for me....I think the small square market is around 4-5$ for the small ones. I'm at 7-8$ on the 40", I don't have a problem selling them as the horsey crowd is fairly intelligent (sometimes) so no education needed. Where I separate myself from others working on production numbers, is quality. I have dealers that sell both.....they offer both to the customer and let them decide. Theirs is explained as "budget minded" while mine is marketed as "premium". Had to create a niche in the niche market  but I'm only producing 10-15k on a decent year......this year was 5k  so while the bigger producer is producing larger numbers, the quality will most certainly lag, it inevitable. But we all have to do what we have to do in order to stay competitive......


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## Osmanhay (Oct 5, 2018)

Has anyone ran an Arcusin c14? Are they slow? How many bales an hour? I run a bale bandit 200 and I am looking at switching things up, got a big custom job who specifically asked for shorter bales. he resales so the more I make the more he makes. Baron is a monster in the weight department and I like the transport ability of the Arcusin.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

From what I’ve read the c14 is quite a bit faster than the b14. They don’t prefer short bales but can be configured to run short bales with 3 strings. You may want to check out the price before getting too excited. The laid over version the belaire-sarl or other branding (name escapes me at moment) that builds packs on their sides are available fairly cheap in Europe but the clunky pto powerpacks that go on the 3 point are like the early a14.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Osmanhay said:


> Has anyone ran an Arcusin c14? Are they slow? How many bales an hour? I run a bale bandit 200 and I am looking at switching things up, got a big custom job who specifically asked for shorter bales. he resales so the more I make the more he makes. Baron is a monster in the weight department and I like the transport ability of the Arcusin.


There's a guy on the Facebook group Hay Kings who is this biggest fan of that machine and has provided a lot of numbers and video, but it did cost him a lot.


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## Osmanhay (Oct 5, 2018)

I've talked to Blanca cusin of arcusin, and made several recommendations about the c14. (21 bale bundle, right hand side pick up, option for baler pull,and a belt pickup.) Said they was gonna look at all options, it's still a $80,000 machine. I like the 32"-50" bale option and a faster moving machine down the road. The baron weights over 11,000lbs? Around $85,000 baler pull $105 tractor pull. I'm leaning towards arcusin. We try to bale around 30,000 bale a year. Currently run the 200 bandit and the custom job wants shorter bales..... What's a 2013 bandit 200 with field pickup option worth.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Them arcusin bundles aren't very tight from what I've seen. No way I'd give 85k for one when a baron is only 105


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Given arcusin have built the same basic 14 bale machine for almost 20 years with incremental updates of the pickup and they largely copied (maybe licensed I don’t know) another manufacturers baler towed machine of the same capacity, I wouldn’t hold your breath to see a radically different towed version.


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## Osmanhay (Oct 5, 2018)

I'm not holding my breath they seemed pretty set in there ways. They didn't think the 21 bale group was necessary??? The bandit works good. Just no adjustability for the small bales. How hard does a baler towed baron work the hydraulics? The baron looks like a monster compared to the bandit. I don't want to add another tractor/operater for the pulled version


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Osmanhay said:


> The bandit works good. Just no adjustability for the small bales.


The 200 model bandit has factory adjustable bale size - from 35 inches to 42 inches.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Osmanhay said:


> I've talked to Blanca cusin of arcusin, and made several recommendations about the c14. (21 bale bundle, right hand side pick up, option for baler pull,and a belt pickup.) Said they was gonna look at all options, it's still a $80,000 machine. I like the 32"-50" bale option and a faster moving machine down the road. The baron weights over 11,000lbs? Around $85,000 baler pull $105 tractor pull. I'm leaning towards arcusin. We try to bale around 30,000 bale a year. Currently run the 200 bandit and the custom job wants shorter bales..... What's a 2013 bandit 200 with field pickup option worth.


Without looking, I'm gonna say about 15k.....do you take PayPal?


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## Wcbr1025 (May 1, 2015)

Osmanhay said:


> Has anyone ran an Arcusin c14? Are they slow? How many bales an hour? I run a bale bandit 200 and I am looking at switching things up, got a big custom job who specifically asked for shorter bales. he resales so the more I make the more he makes. Baron is a monster in the weight department and I like the transport ability of the Arcusin.


We bought a used Arcusin C14 back in April and have run around 30k bales of straw with it almost flawlessly. It's the only piece I've ever ran that we literally unloaded it, greased it and took it to the field and packed 2k bales the first day out without any problems. It has a few quirks like any other machine but it is SIMPLE to operate.

We like the flexibilty of the C14 because we can run 2 balers if we need to. For our small fields a Bandit or Baron were simply too big to move around and operate. In larger fields I can keep up with our MF 1840 baler with the C14 and I can average packing 400 bales an hour pretty easily and if I need to really push it I have gotten 450 bales in an hour under good conditions.

Dane Hanson has been excellent to work with when we did have minor issues which were quickly fixed. He has answered the phone every time we've called and walked us through any issues we've had. I would not worry about the serviceability of the Arcusin anymore than the Bandit or the Baron


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Wcbr1025 said:


> We bought a used Arcusin C14 back in April and have run around 30k bales of straw with it almost flawlessly. It's the only piece I've ever ran that we literally unloaded it, greased it and took it to the field and packed 2k bales the first day out without any problems. It has a few quirks like any other machine but it is SIMPLE to operate.
> 
> We like the flexibilty of the C14 because we can run 2 balers if we need to. For our small fields a Bandit or Baron were simply too big to move around and operate. In larger fields I can keep up with our MF 1840 baler with the C14 and I can average packing 400 bales an hour pretty easily and if I need to really push it I have gotten 450 bales in an hour under good conditions.
> 
> Dane Hanson has been excellent to work with when we did have minor issues which were quickly fixed. He has answered the phone every time we've called and walked us through any issues we've had. I would not worry about the serviceability of the Arcusin anymore than the Bandit or the Baron


That's why I think the Arcusin is top, Simplicity & flexibility, so many less parts to go wrong.


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## Osmanhay (Oct 5, 2018)

paoutdoorsman said:


> The 200 model bandit has factory adjustable bale size - from 35 inches to 42 inches.


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## Osmanhay (Oct 5, 2018)

I be tried but it's hard to hit the 35" consistently if you miss an inch or two you have some messed up bundles


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Osmanhay said:


> I be tried but it's hard to hit the 35" consistently if you miss an inch or two you have some messed up bundles


You might want to consider adding a stroke counter to your baler.

Here are some starting points:

www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=24558

http://www.idahoinstrument.com/index.html

http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Freeman/Forms/89-/89-063.pdf

I have one from Idaho Instruments, BTW.

Consistent windrows is the starting point (IMHO), then consistent strokes, for making consistent idiot bricks. My next SS baling tractor is going to be a variable speed, I do believe.

Larry


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