# Advice needed



## JBI (Mar 27, 2010)

Ok so we (my fiancé and I) have just inherited 260 + acres of hay meadow. It was suggested to us to have soil samples done to see where we stand on the fields. So we did all the fields are poor in nutrients and 2 fields need to be limed this coming fall the PH was in the high 5's. So my numbers for fertilizer recommendations were 100-30-60 to average 2 tons / acre in coastal grass. A brief talking with the local fertilizer guy and he's pushing me to buy 17k in fertilizer. So I'm basically I'm having to correct 17 years of improper soil management.

How do I go from here?
So what can I do to start the process of improving the fields and not going bankrupt in the process? 
Can I just run a better fertilizer and not the best? 
Will liming the fields that need to be done improve my nutrients or is that done by fertilizer?

Thanks for your thoughts. Ben


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Ben the first thing and most important is to get the ph right where it needs to be. If the ph is not right the ferdlizer will not work correctly. I wouldnt just dump all the ferdlizer all on at one time, but thats just me. I would build it back up over time to where it needs to be.


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## DKFarms (Aug 11, 2008)

Your problem is by no means unique. As for fertilization in hay fields, it's a pay-me-now or pay-me-later kinda thing. The more you neglect maintenance fertilization, the more it will cost you later on. I would recommend that you put back what the grass takes out in a season with some additional fertilization to start elevating the residual levels of nutrients. For example, on average, bermuda grass will remove about 50 lbs of Potash and 5 lbs of Sulfur per ton of material harvested. Urea will neutralize about 2 lbs of lime for each pound of N you apply. It's confusing at first, but if you keep good harvest records and use your soil report info, you can come up with a prescription for bringing the land back. I am by no means an expert, but what I do is to apply 50% of the recommended P,K, and N (N=Urea in my area) and 100% of the Sulfur 60 days before before first cutting. I apply N within 30 days of cutting depending on the availability of rain to melt the Urea. Then between second and third cutting I apply 75% of the recommended rates to put back what the grass took out and give me a little residual, hopefully, to energize the root system over the winter. After the last cutting, I make a Lime application rate that is the total of the soil report recommended rate plus a calculated rate based on my Urea application total for the season. I know, it sounds complicated but it gets clearer once you put it into practice. Definitely do as BCFENCE suggests, get your pH up to where it needs to be asap so any fertilizer you do put down will work effectively. Welcome to farming and Good luck!!


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

As others have said get your ph level up if not you are just spinning your wheels no matter how much fertilizer you put on. Is the hay meadow very clean or does it have alot of weeds growing up in it because if it is real weedy it will need to be sprayed. Are you going to try to grow cow hay or horse hay? Depending on where you are at and your equipment situation you might could lease the meadows out with the stipulation that they fertilize it or at least lime it. Another option depending on what part of the state you are in seeing that the soil test was sent to SFA I am going to guess TX but chicken litter would be a cheaper alternative.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Normally, the replies suggesting to lime the lower pH soils first would be correct, especially if you were planning to grow cool-season annual grasses such as ryegrass or legumes such as clovers. Also, the suggestion for applying poultry litter might normally be a good one. However, poultry litter applications, assuming this is a public use airport, might divert air traffic away from the airport. Until it gets rained on after application, poultry litter stinks badly.

Also, since this likely is a public use airport and has no fences around the runways, cool-season annuals would not be planted in fall because cattle would not be grazing on airport land for obvious reasons. Cool-season annuals do need a pH in the vicinity of 6.2. However, you mentioned producing Coastal bermudagrass hay. Coastal bermudagrass easily tolerates pH levels in the high 5.0s with little or no adverse affects on yield.

Now, for the fertilizer recommendation of 100-30-60 (100 lb nitrogen- 30 lb phosphorus as P2O5- 60 lb potash as K2O per acre) for two tons of hay per acre- 1st, what is going to be your market for the produced hay, and what price do you plan to sell the hay for per ton? By my calculations, nitrogen as urea currently costs about $.55/lb of actual N, or $55 for 100 lb of N. Phosphorus, as diammonium phosphate (18-46-0) costs at least $480 per ton, or after valuing the nitrogen at $.49/pound, the phosphorus might cost about $.35/pound of P2O5, or $10.05 for 30 lbs. Potash costs $.40/lb of K2O, or $24/60 lbs. So, based on these prices and they will only increase, your cost for fertilizing the grass as recommended by the SFA lab will be about $89 per acre. If as suggested, your grass yields 2 tons per acre when fertilized with these rates and you hire a custom baler at $25/roll (assuming two round bales per ton at 1,000 lb/bale) your cost for baling is $100/acre. Now you have $189 in fertilizing and haying costs/acre, or the cost of each round bale is at least $47. If you do all 260 acres, your cost for only one cutting will be $49,140. If you plan to do three harvests, the costs increase somewhat more. Are you sure that you want to do this??? Can you sell your hay for more than $50/roll, or $100/ton- and this may only be break even after you consider costs of moving the hay from the field and then onto semi- trucks.

Now, regarding the fertilizer recommendation of 100-30-60 per acre to produce two tons of Coastal bermudagrass hay/acre- I disagree somewhat with these recommendations. Coastal bermudagrass takes up about 10 lb of P2O5 and 50 lb of K2O per ton. Only about 25% of the applied phosphorus may be available the first season, so to have the bermudagrass use 20 lb of P2O5 for one cutting, the application rate on your low P testing soil, the P2O5 application rate should be about 80 lb/acre- otherwise your bermudagrass will be mining phosphorus from this already poor P testing soil. Coastal bermudagrass needs as much K2O as nitrogen, so the rate of potash (K2O) should be 100 lb/acre- the same as nitrogen- or your hay production will be mining the soil of potash. So your fertilizer costs are going up and so are your hay production costs. You can do the calculations from here&#8230;

Remember an earlier reply to your request for advice- nitrogen applied to poorly buffered soils such as sandy loam (poor resistance to chemical change) increases acidity. Retest your soils every two years if doing intensive hay production using high nitrogen rates on bermudagrass. Don't allow the pH of your soils to go below 5.8.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Great that you have soil samples and are traking the farms fertility and potential but take a big whoa and you cannot make up for 17 years of poor soil management, you will go completely broke. To only produce 2 tons per acre I cannot see how you can pay for all that fertilizer. Take a year to see what you are getting, what your market is, how your forages are producing and etc. Take a whole integrated approach and develope business plan first and see if you can manage financially and how much you can afford for soil ammendments. Lime would be the first step as others mentioned.


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## nosliw (Feb 8, 2010)

Does one soil sample represent the whole 260 acres? Or are the reccomendations being given an "average"?


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## geiselbreth (Feb 21, 2010)

depends on how u sample


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## NCSteveH (Jun 30, 2009)

I know that it hasn't been mentioned yet but I think I'd take a step back and this year, if it isn't infested with weeds, let it go to seed then bush-hog it down. Then in the fall put down the lime. You do realize that you are paying for previous mismanagement but like you said, no need to go broke all at once. By giving the land a rest this year you will be buying yourself some time to come up with a gameplan that should be profitable. Oh yeah, the cheapest way I have found to get fertilizer is to buy a used dump truck and befriend the local poultry farmer and pitch in helping him clean out the houses. Three Saturdays a year in the winter gets me all the manure I can haul.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

Given that you're just starting out I'd agree with most of the other posts and start with the line and get some manure on it if you are able to. If there's a big dairy, hog, or poultry operation nearby I'd try to get them to put on as much manure as your fields as your state's Nutrient Management Plans allow. You may get lucky and find someone who doesn't have enough land to get rid of their manure.

I'd also find a mentor in the area to help with the harvesting side of things and just to have someone else to bounce ideas off of. Good luck.


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