# Suggestions on improving rough stands



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Since I have begun my journey in this amazing business, one theme has been consistent: I inherit older fields and try to rehab them. It's as if it was the only way. I have only taken over 2 fields that were producing hay the year before.

Most of the fields I take over have rough, stemmy stuff: multi-flora, goldenrod, broomsedge, even blackberry in worst case scenarios.

Last fall, I picked up another 40-50 acres and begun rehabbing them.

When I cut them, some had blackberry-pretty nasty, but after they were cut, they damn near looked like a decent hayfield. However, the woody stubble remains.

1: if you had to rehab fields with a mix of basic, natural grass and small stickers woody stubble with *NO spray*, what is the *fastest *way to get them turned around? Should I concede a year of hay and mow them with bush hog like 5, 6 times? OR should I concede first cutting and bush hog instead, then bale 2nd cutting and sell as mushroom hay (this is the way I'm favoring). Would the woody stuff be dead by then? Would only 2 cuttings then a fall bush hogging be enough?

2: If you were allowed spray.* WHEN* do I spray for maximum woody invasive kill?? I would use Clarity. What would you use?

Thanks!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Without spray, cutting woody stuff in late August/early Sept here just before frosts come (likely later there) is about the most effective action.

Cut earlier they just send up new shoots.

It takes about 2 years to get most of that garbage under control without spray.

The absolute fastest is to plow it up and reseed but you won't get much yield the first year and you've invested a pile of money in fuel and time.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh and with spray, something with triclopyr or aminopyrolyd early in the season is a good bet. There is a bit of residual and carry over so even bushhogging first cut and leaving it so you horse clients aren't getting carry over in their manure isn't a bad idea. Very little amounts of those herbicides go a long way on brushy weeds.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Definitely DID cut just before frost here in mid fall, so hopefully that put a hurtin on them!!

I got bitched at ONCE last fall for "woody" crap in one or two loads at the mushroom plant. I can't afford to lose my buyer, so the stalky stuff must go. 
These new places present challenges. One is a greenhouse. I could just see a freak updraft carry 2-4-d into his plants... Lol. The other is a self proclaimed "organic farm", so he already laid the ground rules- NO SPRAY.
Both do pay me to bush hog in the fall to help control the weeds.

Would it be advisable to cut at about 1' tall in the spring?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

How woody? Is it going to hurt your hay equipment at all?

Work out a deal to bale and get off field to compost? Could be a win win if conditions were right.

Or review situation with shrooom buyer prior to making the (mulch) hay? Let them know up front and see what they say.

Plan C-keep muching with brush hog until clean enough.

Plan D-mow and windrow low and tight with your hay mower. Then mulch windrow?

If I throw enough darts, maybe one will stick.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Is burning out? I cut some last year, and windrowed like Moose said. Then I lit the windrows and had a cold refreshing adult beverage while it burned.

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

glasswrongsize said:


> Is burning out? I cut some last year, and windrowed like Moose said. Then I lit the windrows and had a cold refreshing adult beverage while it burned.
> 73, Mark


How did that turn out?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nah, unfortunately no burn allowed.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> How did that turn out?


Will know this year. It was about September or so when I burned it off; the areas surrounding the windrows greened up faster than that under the fire. All in all, it got rid of the woody stems (mostly horseweed about 10' tall in places) and also burned the grass into ash. I was afraid the grass would not burn enough and the remainder would smother any future growth. It all burned and looks good for this spring.

My difference is, I am able to dose it with 2,4d in the spring to keep the horseweeds gone. Bottome line, it got the worthless stuff off of the field without having to bale it and dispose of it elsewhere as it wasn't worth baling anyway.

73, Mark

ps, forgot to mention that I let it get dry as a popcorn fart after windrowing and before unleashing my pyromania upon it


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

If there is as much blackberry as you say I'd be picking the berries, making jam, and selling it or sitting up a u-pick sign lol I do love my blackberries and blueberries lol


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Might try chisel plowing it .


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If there is green house nearby DO NOT spray what I mentioned, the tomotoes get a whiff of that and they are done! A good dose will prevent tomatoes from growing for a few years!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah I know. Gotta be careful. Vineyards close by, too. 
I can't sell the mushroom guys hay with any sticks in it.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Check your soild PH too.. If It low, getting it up will do wonders for getting the grass to grow and choke out the other stuff.

Also, there are some organic sprays....Guys use vinegar and salt for a "burndown" of sorts...possibly spot spray a mixture like that???


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I wanted to get mushroom compost on them this winter, but we got 26" snow dumped on us all at once and now the ground has thawed and it's pretty muddy. Might have to wait until it's dry enough to take the tractor and spreader over them.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Broiler manure would also be excellent...as a flush of nitrogen makes the grass out compete the shrubery...plus the added long term benefit of Phosphorous. Nitrogen is a good way to eventually remove broomsedge as it hates competition from healthy growing grasses. The bird manure would do wonders for your yields also.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It's a tough situation Mike. There's greenhouses open for retail customers 7/W and the smell could be a challenge. 
The mushroom soil doesn't smell real bad-if I can ever get the mud to dry out to apply it!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> It's a tough situation Mike. There's greenhouses open for retail customers 7/W and the smell could be a challenge.
> The mushroom soil doesn't smell real bad-if I can ever get the mud to dry out to apply it!


Yep....I deal with that some...if you can get someone to spread on your terms....like right before a definite rain....that will relieve the problem greatly.

Regards, Mike


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