# Thanks to the Proponents of Higher Cutting Heights



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

So, I am trying several new things this year in an effort to boost profits. One of the issues I have had is with stand mortality. A number of you folks have been selling higher cutting heights-I believe Ralph, Cy, Mike and others all contributed to that discussion. Well, I am convinced and converted. Attached are 4 pics-two with a ruler to show grass height and two with an area view to show stand vigor. The areas were cut first cutting on May 21 and 23. They were all topdressed with 50#N on 5/27. I have taken second cutting from one on 7/3 and made 205 45-50# bales on about 5-5.5 ac. Made 82 at the same time last year. The pic shows the height of 9-11" total height at 11 days-regrowth from 3.5-4" stubble height. The other one has not had second cutting taken due to lack of opportunity to cure hay. Was hoping to cut on Wed but that window looks to be shutting down. Some Vortex!

the second cutting area to be is over 18 inches in height with many individual blades at 24" or more. Looking for 500 on 9 ac. Thanks for your help and suggestions. I am now committed to higher cutting heights and regular topdressing.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, It sure has helped my stands regrowth for the next cutting. I am hoping that it will add a few years to my stands also. I was getting tired of reseeding every 3 years and was blaming it on the seed that we get nowadays!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

It makes a immeasurable difference, when one considers not just yield but as NDVA alluded to....stand longevity. Orchard Grass especially cannot tolerate low cuttings. OG will quite often die out in droughty summers if cut low and this typically will show up here in September. One should never cut OG less than four inches. OG is much more affected by low cutting here as we only get one cutting of Timothy....so it is not such a issue here with Timothy.

I usually like to cut the alfalfa about 4 inches so as to have a good circulation of air underneath for drying, but I will cut that last cutting pretty low HERE as It tends to be light anyway and of course I do so with plenty of time for regrowth....but regrowth is not so much of a issue here as it is in the cold flat country.

Regards, Mike


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Vol said:


> It makes a immeasurable difference, when one considers not just yield but as NDVA alluded to....stand longevity. Orchard Grass especially cannot tolerate low cuttings. OG will quite often die out in droughty summers if cut low and this typically will show up here in September. One should never cut OG less than four inches. OG is much more affected by low cutting here as we only get one cutting of Timothy....so it is not such a issue here with Timothy.
> 
> I usually like to cut the alfalfa about 4 inches so as to have a good circulation of air underneath for drying, but I will cut that last cutting pretty low HERE as It tends to be light anyway and of course I do so with plenty of time for regrowth....but regrowth is not so much of a issue here as it is in the cold flat country.
> 
> Regards, Mike


This is truth. The lower parts of the plant store the most nutrients needed for timely regrowth. Not to mention longevity which equals better stands and more tonnage.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I learned it the hard way--had a friend cut my OG when I was first starting OG production. He scalped it because the old timers thoughts on mowing alfalfa was to cut it at ground level so he thought the same applied to OG. (Several OT's around here still think the same.)

I put the "high stubble" kit on my 7230 and mow pure alfalfa at the 3.5" setting, OG at 5.5" and fescues at the 4.5".

Ralph


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> Well, It sure has helped my stands regrowth for the next cutting. I am hoping that it will add a few years to my stands also. I was getting tired of reseeding every 3 years and was blaming it on the seed that we get nowadays!


I am trying to decide if my brillion till and seed will overseed successfully on the higher stubble. heck, maybe I will trade it on a gp 10 footer and not worry.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I have been cutting my orchard/fescue fields about 3.5 inches tall. This year my regrowth hasn't been so good but we were dry after I cut in mid may up until recently. Maybe I should have top dressed after first cut. Last year I didn't top dress after first cut but did after second and it boosted the third cut yield but I wasn't sure how much it would help my second cut during the heat of the summer. I'm going to be killing these fields out this fall anyway as they are getting thin but they have been established for probably 20 years and I managed to revive the neglected grass and got 3 years of very good yields. After I kill these fields I will no longer have any negative endophyte fescue hay.....all of my fescue will be endophyte friendly MaxQ.

My new seeding of orchard/MaxQ I baled first cut a week ago. The quality was still very good because of a reason I can't figure out......only about 5-10% of the field headed out.....it was like second cut as it was all undergrowth. Baled 80 bales an acre of just leaf material. I did top dress this field with 45 units of N today.....will see how it regrows.....I mowed 3.5 inches as well.....maybe I should have mowed at 4.5.

Something else I noticed this year with my timothy was that I cut most at 2 inches since I was killing the stand and planting beans but one patch I was leaving I cut at 4.5 inches. What was cut at 2 inches actually greened back up quicker.....figure that out.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Grasses store their sugars for regrowth in that white part of the stem--just above the ground. Cutting too short makes for a sweeter, tastier hay----once!

The trick, for the most part, is to balance regrowth against yield and sugars. The later in the spring, the taller I cut because I want as much regrowth before it goes dormant. If I can get an earlier cutting, I'll mow somewhat shorter because it'll have time to recover. But, like this year, I couldn't cut until July 1st, so I mowed as tall as possible (5.5") and the fields are comung back nicely (the cool weather is helping).

Alfalfa stores its sugars in the crown, just under the ground. So it can be mowed almost at ground level.

Ralph


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Cut ours at 4-5 inches. Always have and can get 10+years out of a stand on grass if properly fertilized. Usually take two cuts and graze late/thin second cutting and third cutting on most of the home farm. Some farther away rented ground only get cut once. From my experience the home farm that gets grazed usually has finer steams and matures a bit later but still yields the same. Also get alot of Kentucky blue grass come in as well. I do know we need to do more topdressing.


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

I know I am gonna get called crazy or old timmer or whatever but it is a fact to me because Ive put it to the test . All my cutting machines are sickle bars . Fact - disc mowers are fast and do a clean job !!!! BUT they chop hay down and this is NOT good on any plant .The clean cut of a sickle bar will get green back up ATLEAST 3 days sooner than cutting with a disc mower . And you can only cut so low with a sickle but most of my stubble is 1 - 2 inches and no problems . I heard this about 10 years ago and put it to the test and its a fact . The only thing about cutting high is that a wheel rake will want to drag green grass up into your windrow


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

siscofarms said:


> I know I am gonna get called crazy or old timmer or whatever but it is a fact to me because Ive put it to the test . All my cutting machines are sickle bars . Fact - disc mowers are fast and do a clean job !!!! BUT they chop hay down and this is NOT good on any plant .The clean cut of a sickle bar will get green back up ATLEAST 3 days sooner than cutting with a disc mower . And you can only cut so low with a sickle but most of my stubble is 1 - 2 inches and no problems . I heard this about 10 years ago and put it to the test and its a fact . The only thing about cutting high is that a wheel rake will want to drag green grass up into your windrow


Well, that is another reason to get a good rotary rake because it does not do that. In fact, if you do opening windrows in a field you can rake anything that the tedder throws into non cut grass and it rakes it out clean. Sorry, there is nothing in the world including retro poverty that would make me go back to a sickle bar.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

siscofarms said:


> I know I am gonna get called crazy or old timmer or whatever but it is a fact to me because Ive put it to the test . All my cutting machines are sickle bars . Fact - disc mowers are fast and do a clean job !!!! BUT they chop hay down and this is NOT good on any plant .The clean cut of a sickle bar will get green back up ATLEAST 3 days sooner than cutting with a disc mower . And you can only cut so low with a sickle but most of my stubble is 1 - 2 inches and no problems . I heard this about 10 years ago and put it to the test and its a fact . The only thing about cutting high is that a wheel rake will want to drag green grass up into your windrow


Well... It is a fact that clean cuts grow back faster. However, a disc machine will leave a very clean cut if it has sharp blades. Same with a sickle. It's like comparing cutting with a sword to cutting with scissors. They're both a clean cut.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

siscofarms said:


> I know I am gonna get called crazy or old timmer or whatever but it is a fact to me because Ive put it to the test . All my cutting machines are sickle bars . Fact - disc mowers are fast and do a clean job !!!! BUT they chop hay down and this is NOT good on any plant .The clean cut of a sickle bar will get green back up ATLEAST 3 days sooner than cutting with a disc mower . And you can only cut so low with a sickle but most of my stubble is 1 - 2 inches and no problems . I heard this about 10 years ago and put it to the test and its a fact . The only thing about cutting high is that a wheel rake will want to drag green grass up into your windrow


I agree--a sickle will give you a cleaner cut--most of the time--and this does aid in regrowth.

The problem with most disc mowers is that people let their blades get dull. And this is like your lawn mower--dull blades tear the grass; they don't cut it. If you look at the grass blade, you'll see a ragged edge. A sickle mower will give you a clean edge. Sickle mowers offer more cutting surface and a shearing edge.

A disc mower's blade cuts on the outer tip of the blade and, of course, this cases it to wear faster. (That's one of the reasons I liked the Vicon 3 blade design and if it where up to me, I'd go with a 4 blade design.)

A cut edge on the grass blade prevents drying and diseases from getting into the regrowth. Ragged edges allow diseases in.

I often touch up the blades on my disc mower with a grinder just to put a new edge on it. And, I change blades at least once a year, if not more often, especially if I see the outer corner is getting too worn.

Ralph


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

It is really not hard to change a bad blade or to touch up worn blades. I clean (wash off) my discbine after each use and check the blades and if needed sharpen or replace. Never knowingly go to the field with a dull blade. Seriously, it is less than a minute to replace a blade with a battery impact wrench. One of the things I like best about the discbine.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Must be nice to have blades that can be sharpened or even flipped. I have rocks so its a toss up between if I change blades cause they are dull or bent out of shape like abstract art.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Fill me in on the high stubble kit for 7230 disc mower. 
I think I need to do this.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

hog987 said:


> Must be nice to have blades that can be sharpened or even flipped. I have rocks so its a toss up between if I change blades cause they are dull or bent out of shape like abstract art.


Well, we have plenty of limestone outcrops here and the boogers move between cuttings so no matter how much you know you can always be planing off some rock surface with your blade. BTW-another reason to cut high- I spray all my rock outcrops with roundup at least 2x a year so I can see disaster coming. if not clear from spray, an isolated patch of different vegetation like thistle is a dead give away. Now if you have cobbles on the ground surface, I guess a manual (walking stiffs) or automated rock picker is your only alternative. and yes, I have bent my share of blades that will cut an interesting pattern in the grass surface.


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Hayman1 said:


> I am trying to decide if my brillion till and seed will overseed successfully on the higher stubble. heck, maybe I will trade it on a gp 10 footer and not worry.


10 foot no till?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

yes a nt. the till and seed does well on short stubble, but not sure how we will fare on higher stubble. Probably would only get the 7 due to $ and really that is fine for my needs. I got the T&S because I thought it would be better for small paddocks and it is really nice for tilled ground. eliminates clods. But the reality is that I have not used my 7' 3pt bushhog for years, always use the BH3210 pt even in small paddocks so the drill would not be any different. I have used a GPNT 7footer from the coop a lot in the past.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

we use Teapot Orchard Grass straight and with all are alfalfa mixes. It withstand lower cutting.we use New Holland disc bines and cut in the middle tilt position. I do not like to rake and ted in high stubble. We found where we let real high stubble in the alfalfa mixeswe had a lot of traffic marks in the next cuttingwe think it grew back before we had dry hay bailed2&a half to 3 inches for usI know .We will not win any prizes for Stand longevity


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Fill me in on the high stubble kit for 7230 disc mower.
> I think I need to do this.


The high stubble kit is a set of 8 bolt-on shoes that mount under each turtle.

The standard 7230 cutting height settings are 1.5"--2.5"--3.5". The high stubble kit adds 2" to these settings, so that it goes: 3.5"--4.5"-5.5".

If I remember right, the shoes costs $300(?). (But don't quote me.)

Takes about an hour to put them on.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Run mine tilted back all the way unless have a seriously lodged crop, if I'm getting 90% of it in a lodged crop I don't tilt it forward anymore.

Sharp blades also save on fuel and reduces drivetrain stress.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Run mine tilted back all the way unless have a seriously lodged crop, if I'm getting 90% of it in a lodged crop I don't tilt it forward anymore.
> 
> Sharp blades also save on fuel and reduces drivetrain stress.


you run it all the way back with or without the high stubble shoes? My 1409 has the tilt cylinder and I have it set in the up position which is as high as I can cut without adding shoes. Really don't think I want to cut at 5.5" stubble height but willing to listen to experiences out there.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Standard shoes on mine. Don't like tilting it forward for any reason unless absolutely required, easier to scalp the ground in extremely undulating ground and also doesn't seem to ride over obstructions such as a new ground hog hole as nice.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

endrow said:


> we use Teapot Orchard Grass straight and with all are alfalfa mixes. It withstand lower cutting.we use New Holland disc bines and cut in the middle tilt position. I do not like to rake and ted in high stubble. We found where we let real high stubble in the alfalfa mixeswe had a lot of traffic marks in the next cuttingwe think it grew back before we had dry hay bailed2&a half to 3 inches for usI know .We will not win any prizes for Stand longevity


SORRY Tekapo Orchard Grass


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

endrow said:


> SORRY Tekapo Orchard Grass


Hows the maturity on that compared to Late Mate II?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I noticed that this season when I had it tilted back. Cuts faster with less strain on machine and if you hit a rock or slide over one intentionally going slow, does not beat up the blades or the cutter bar-at least you don't fly forward in your seat! Also as you noted, since it is not scalping the ground you have less dirt wear in the blades and less dirt in the hay. What's not to like?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I noticed what seemed like an excessive amount of mole mounds and runs this year as well.


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