# Logging industry dead in The US. What's next?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Did any of you see the last major timber/lumber operation in Oregon shuttered its doors this week?
There were 22 such companies just 10 years ago and now, because of environmentalists, they've all been shut down.
In the town where the last one just closed (I think it was called "rough & ready") the town has rampant crime and 3times the national average for unemployment. Town is broke.

I have a feeling now that logging, mining and manufacturing have been chased off to foreign countries, I'm worried FARMING might be the next target.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

I have the same concerns...the farthest you have to look is the what the tree huggers have done to the horse market and you have to be careful not to crap your pants


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Most people don't have a clue where their food comes from, other than a store or restaurant. Farmers need to do a mass public relations program to someone other than the choir!!!


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

FCF said:


> Most people don't have a clue where their food comes from, other than a store or restaurant. Farmers need to do a mass public relations program to someone other than the choir!!!


Here here! But...how? We should all get together and brainstorm ideas... Lol


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You'd have a hard time sending agriculture out of the country. Why you may ask? Lets say they did manage to shut down most of big ag in this country, what do you think food prices would be now after last years drought and the record prices that were the result with all the production the world could muster minus the US's production? $30/bushel beans and $15/bushel corn or higher? Maybe a lot higher than that. People would learn real quick where their food actually comes from.

As a chronic a case of rectal/cranial disease todays politicians seem to have, even the dumbest of the dumb should know a rule that Eugene the Marine my old Government teacher told us. He said the most tyrannical of dictators all knew that their people would tolerate untold atrocities as long as they and their children were going to bed with full tummies. Once said people started going to bed hungry or more importantly once they had to watch their kids go to bed hungry then they become much more volatile and are ready to riot or even start a revolution/coup at the drop of a hat.

Lets not even go into the all the property tax just the state of Indiana collects on farm land. If said land was to become useless I certainly wouldn't keep paying property tax on land that wasn't generating any income.

Anybody wanna guess how many hundreds of thousands or millions of jobs are ties directly to agriculture? How about how many millions ties indirectly to ag? Unemployment rate would probably at the very least double or even triple over night if ag was made obsolete here, then there would also be the lost tax revenue to the feds with all those unemployed and god forbid we can't have that.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think the environmentalists will go after any/all chemicals being used for agriculture and we'll all have to farm organically. 
Of course we all know the disaster that will create. Farms will have to have razor wire fences around them because the value of the crops will get so high, but these environmentalists are mostly unemployed lifetime college students looking for someone to blame because they got picked on all their lives. 
You watch, I bet "those dirty farmers" are next and the farmers that just got arrested for the bad cantaloupes are maybe the first in a series of publicly press exaggerated court cases. Tthat will start the process.
All this crap starts in the liberal biased media, then a politician or professor will pick up the cause and start getting legislation passed.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

They will regulate agriculture to death a little bit at a time so no one says anything.

My feedot permit doesn't require much for my size.But I see the rules that kicked in at 1000 hd have been reduced to 400 hd when I had to renew it this yr.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> They will regulate agriculture to death a little bit at a time so no one says anything.
> 
> My feedot permit doesn't require much for my size.But I see the rules that kicked in at 1000 hd have been reduced to 400 hd when I had to renew it this yr.


Yeah, but they already killed that last silly bill trying to regulate dust created by agricultural practices.

It will get to the point where pushback will cause em to reconsider some of their silly regs. Couple years like last year will really be a wakeup call. Might even get some of the more silly parts of the country to no longer prioritize water for recreational use instead of agriculture.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Might even get some of the more silly parts of the country to no longer prioritize water for recreational use instead of agriculture.


This kind of reminds me of the new rules they are trying to pass in Ohio on field fertilizer. It doesn't make any sense to me that some moron in town can go to the local big box store and buy 1,000 lbs of fertilizer to spread on their 4,000 s.f. yard or to hire True-Green or whoever to spray their yard every other week with no regulations, but you going to make it a pain for the farmer. News flash, fertilizer is $$$, we don't put on more then we need to, and we sure as hell don't try to waste it. I'm not saying that some regulation may be helpfull for the algea bloom in Lake Erie, byt we NEED fertilizer to grow crops, every yard in town does not NEED to look like a golf course & need mowed twice a week.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

They pushed back here on a regulation to fence off ALL water in pastures.So a cow can't poop in the creek.They got it squashed.Sooo then they offered a higher CRP rate for pastures with a creek running threw.They made it high enough so it isn't feasible to run cows on it.$125-$185 per acre.

So whats better a pasture with 20 cows or one with a few deer and 20 pheasents?

They are constantly pecking away at agriculture.If they don't get their way one way they will try another to get what they want.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not in tune with the market down there but up here the US demand for framing lumber went into free fall about 5 years ago with the housing crash and killed all the logging and mills. The environmentalists may try to take credit but its just the market forces.

Our economy was something like 75% forest based but is only a tiny fraction of that now. In the years following all the mill closures, a lot of the power plants have closed or been idled as the big power hog mills are gone.

The pulp market is pretty bad right now too, its hard to harvest if you don't have markets for every type of wood. I live right next to a pulp mill and after paying trucking I'd be logging for nearly free to cut my wood and send it there.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> I'm not in tune with the market down there but up here the US demand for framing lumber went into free fall about 5 years ago with the housing crash and killed all the logging and mills. The environmentalists may try to take credit but its just the market forces.Our economy was something like 75% forest based but is only a tiny fraction of that now. In the years following all the mill closures, a lot of the power plants have closed or been idled as the big power hog mills are gone.The pulp market is pretty bad right now too, its hard to harvest if you don't have markets for every type of wood. I live right next to a pulp mill and after paying trucking I'd be logging for nearly free to cut my wood and send it there.


Well, the news report claims the logging industry was killed by enviromental over regulation and the fact that logging is done 80% on govt land and the new regime down here has made it nearly impossible for logging companies to meet all the govt regs on govt land.
If the reason was lower demand for lumber because of housing glut, the current US regime could take credit for that nightmare, too.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I can't follow you here, doesn't line up with any of the analysis I've read about what happened.

My medium bit of understanding how banking is carried out and the macro and micro economic courses I have under my belt has led me to believe high end banking and investment products are some of the smartest and most crooked bunch of folks out there. I don't pretend to know if the bulk are democrats or republican but platforms of deregulation and reduced gov oversight certainly gives them more freedom to do what they please in complex versions of what would get the small business man tossed in jail.



JD3430 said:


> JD3430, on 27 Sept 2013 - 7:11 PM, said:
> If the reason was lower demand for lumber because of housing glut, the current US regime could take credit for that nightmare, too.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> I can't follow you here, doesn't line up with any of the analysis I've read about what happened.
> My medium bit of understanding how banking is carried out and the macro and micro economic courses I have under my belt has led me to believe high end banking and investment products are some of the smartest and most crooked bunch of folks out there. I don't pretend to know if the bulk are democrats or republican but platforms of deregulation and reduced gov oversight certainly gives them more freedom to do what they please in complex versions of what would get the small business man tossed in jail.


Maybe this will change your mind
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/timber-industry-suffers-as-loggers-blame-federal-regs-for-lost-jobs/


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

There's a lot of meat in the above posts.

First. The other day, I scan-read an article that quoted (I think) Thomas Jefferson that the greatest threat to freedom was creeping regulation.

In management, I learned "Make no big changes!" You can make all kinds of little changes day in/day out and get away with it. Yes, there will be a little grumbling, but not much. E.g., Obamacare, moderate change--quite a bit grumbling, but not enough that people will stand up against and march on Washington.

Second, The economy is in the worst shape since the 1930's, but the numbers are being manipulated. E.g., gas is running $3.50 or more, yet there is little or no inflation being reported. Why? Fuel has been removed from the CPI calculation (and so has food.)

Third. Well, I'm sitting here drinking Scotch and I can't remember what my thoughts were about the banking system, so you all get off easy.

Ralph
The Kingdom Of Moses
National Flag: Giant red letters "J&B"


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, sad to say the US is now a "regulation nation".
With more and more pressure to grow organic from these white collar geniuses in the news media, food prices are set to increase dramatically.
Can't wait for the first complaints.......they'll be from the ones who created all the regulations. 
Growing mushroom hay loaded with weeds looks more attractive than ever. Lol


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Went to the drag races yesterday and met a lady from Protect the Harvest, an organization that is purportedly going up against the likes of HSUS, PETA, and other bozos. Apparently, Protect... was founded by Forest Luca, Lucas Oil, to combat those organizations that are looking to outlaw things like rodeos, circuses, hunting, pet ownership, etc.

I had heard of this organization but didn't know what it was about. I'm going to dig into it more and might even join. (I do not belong to ANY organizations except the USEF and that is only for insurance reasons.)

I suggested that they add the Nature Conservancy to the list--they want to ban plants and nature.

For more info: http://protecttheharvest.com/

Ralph


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