# 276 New Holland tie problem



## coycaller (Oct 16, 2010)

I bought a 276 a few weeks ago and it works great with hemp twine but I can't get it to tie plastic. The baler ties the plastic but won't release from the bill hook, it ends up just breaking the twine. I released pressure on the bill hook and it got better but not good enough. It was still breaking 1 in 5. I put the hemp back in and it only missed 4 in about 220 bales. I would rather use plastic if I could. What do I need to do?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Never used plastic myself always preferred sisal. One suggestion would look and see if you have any grooves wore in the knotter parts from running sisal before, they'll be larger than the plastic twine and will let the plastic move around. For anybody that has the opposite problem, ties plastic fine but won't on sisal, the plastic has worn grooves in stuff and the sisal is too big to fit in the grooves, especially a problem where the twine goes thru the eyes of the needles.

I won't swear to it, but we used to have a 276 Hayliner and I _think_ there was a few settings or maybe even parts specific to using plastic. Maybe it could have been different twine disc holders for plastic.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Never used plastic myself always preferred sisal. One suggestion would look and see if you have any grooves wore in the knotter parts from running sisal before, they'll be larger than the plastic twine and will let the plastic move around. For anybody that has the opposite problem, ties plastic fine but won't on sisal, the plastic has worn grooves in stuff and the sisal is too big to fit in the grooves, especially a problem where the twine goes thru the eyes of the needles.
> 
> I won't swear to it, but we used to have a 276 Hayliner and I _think_ there was a few settings or maybe even parts specific to using plastic. Maybe it could have been different twine disc holders for plastic.


Switched from Sisal to Plastic on both a NH 315 & NH 570, no changes and no problems! I did switch from 9000 sisal to 7200 plastic, not 9000 plastic. The 7200 plastic is about the same diameter as the 9000 sisal, which may eliminate some of the issues mentioned earlier.
HTH, Dave


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Switched from Sisal to Plastic on both a NH 315 & NH 570, no changes and no problems! I did switch from 9000 sisal to 7200 plastic, not 9000 plastic. The 7200 plastic is about the same diameter as the 9000 sisal, which may eliminate some of the issues mentioned earlier.
> HTH, Dave


It does, most of the problems I remember having is when people would switch from 9000 plastic to 9000 twine or vice versa. We never ran anything but 7200 sisal as we used thrower wagons.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

mlappin said:


> It does, most of the problems I remember having is when people would switch from 9000 plastic to 9000 twine or vice versa. We never ran anything but 7200 sisal as we used thrower wagons.


I never was aware of 7200 sisal! Most, if not all, sisal users in this area use the 9000 even with throwers, although the irregularities in sisal has been problematic in recent years. I went to the 7200 plastic instead of the 9000 for a couple of reasons; It's easier on the fingers, it's stronger, and the cost per bale was a wash at the time I switched. I did try 1 bale of 9000 plastic, and found it to be about the same strength as "good" 9000 sisal, but harder on the fingers.
Dave


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## Iowa hay guy (Jul 29, 2010)

you need to make sure there are 3 stationary discs and 2 that rotate if my memory serves that is what is there i think it was deere that had 2 options but we used both without trouble
turn your knotters up and open up the billhook and file the sharp point off with a jewelers file and that should help a lot as we have had to do this several times and it cleared the prob right up but just remember that its real hard stuff to file but im almost certain thats your trouble unless you have grooves wore in it as stated above but i really doubt it cuz that takes a LONG time


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I never was aware of 7200 sisal! Most, if not all, sisal users in this area use the 9000 even with throwers, although the irregularities in sisal has been problematic in recent years. I went to the 7200 plastic instead of the 9000 for a couple of reasons; It's easier on the fingers, it's stronger, and the cost per bale was a wash at the time I switched. I did try 1 bale of 9000 plastic, and found it to be about the same strength as "good" 9000 sisal, but harder on the fingers.
> Dave


This was a long time ago, lets say 20 years. The sisal twine used to be much better far as consistency. I don't even recall being able to get 7200 plastic back then. Anyways regardless of the size, plastic seemed harder on your fingers and I never wore gloves while baling.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

coycaller said:


> I bought a 276 a few weeks ago and it works great with hemp twine but I can't get it to tie plastic. The baler ties the plastic but won't release from the bill hook, it ends up just breaking the twine. I released pressure on the bill hook and it got better but not good enough. It was still breaking 1 in 5. I put the hemp back in and it only missed 4 in about 220 bales. I would rather use plastic if I could. What do I need to do?


Plastic takes less twine pressure coming out of the twine box. Try loosening the twine pressure by 50% and see if that will help.

Regards, Mike


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Where is the twine breaking at? Is it in the knot, beside the knot or somewhere in other areas?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Iowa hay guy said:


> but im almost certain thats your trouble unless you have grooves wore in it as stated above but i really doubt it cuz that takes a LONG time


Or a lot of hay. We've rebuilt knotters from said grooves. Usually you'll notice the holes in the twine needles becoming elongated first..


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## coycaller (Oct 16, 2010)

Iowa hay guy said:


> you need to make sure there are 3 stationary discs and 2 that rotate if my memory serves that is what is there i think it was deere that had 2 options but we used both without trouble
> turn your knotters up and open up the billhook and file the sharp point off with a jewelers file and that should help a lot as we have had to do this several times and it cleared the prob right up but just remember that its real hard stuff to file but im almost certain thats your trouble unless you have grooves wore in it as stated above but i really doubt it cuz that takes a LONG time


I think you nailed it. The knots were there, the problem was the knots would hang on the bill hook. When the new hay started in it would tear the knot from the bill hook, sometimes leaving a knot and sometimes breaking it. Thanks I'll give this a try.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Definitly check the billhook for wear, but just as important is the condition of the twine knife and the knifearm adjustments. Dull twine knives and knifearm adjustment are most likely the cause of your problem. If you have the original knife arms on the knotters, then you can just sharpen the knives. If you have the new thin knives you need to replace the knives.

Check that the knife arm is contacting the billhook as it rotates across the billhook. It should rub slightly as it crosses. At the fartherest travel of the knife arm the arm must be past the billhook by 3/8". You need to apply slight pressure on the arm in the direction of the billhook. If you do not it will appear that the arm is travellin farther than it actually can when removing the knot from the billhook. The rollers on the end of the knife arm wear down and get flat spots which limits the travel of the knifearm.

Also related to knots hanging is the condition of the twine holder. If the twine pulls out of the disc too easily when the twine is being cut by the twine knife the knife cannot make a good cut. Plastic twines pulls out of the twine discs easier than sisal. This can also be made worse by dull twine knives. You can apply more pressure to the twine holder.

If you need to replace the billhooks, there are billhooks made for plastic twine. They will also work with 9000 sisal twine.


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## nanuk (Aug 29, 2011)

I wish I'd have known about you guys when I was square baling years ago


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I some-how missed this thread.
John Deere balers had 2 different billhooks, 1 for sisal twine only, & 1 called 'multi-twine'.
I tried last time I baled to use the plastic from my round baler, but it wouldn't tie worth a flip. Just changed them out but it's been raining just enough I haven't had a chance to try them out yet.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

nanuk said:


> I wish I'd have known about you guys when I was square baling years ago


Yep, lots of good people with good info here. That's why I'm here, learnin' a bunch in little time, with-out the expensive time & parts some of the guys spent to learn it.


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## nanuk (Aug 29, 2011)

one of the things I learned early on, is the plastic twine has to be the heaviest you can get, as the thin stuff simply won't hold a knot


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## Carl.Shannon (Sep 5, 2010)

I also have purchased a NH 276. The guy I got it from said that it only missed one out of 100. It had hay in it from last year that I had to cut out with a chain saw (no joke). I guess he put it up wet/moist, it set up like a brick. Not a lot of rust, just would not even tear out (that bale did have a knot in it). Anyway, I greased and put new twine in and begin to bale (Ive tried both plastic and nylon). It has not made the first knot yet. I tried turning it by hand and watching to see what is going on. I'm not an expert, I have run a 268 NH for years, but still not that machinicly inclined. Anyway, the bill hook grabs it, makes a twist and it seems like the knives cut it before it pulls the knot tight. Bottom line, I get a nice clean cut, but no knot. Other than that important factor, it seems to run very smooth. Any thoughts?

thanks


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

The knot scraper plate on the back of the knife HAS to scrape the back of the bill hook to finish the knot. The knotter manual said to bend knife arm to where it scrape "lightly", well make that "firmly" and it will scrape the knot off the bill hook to complete the knot. bjr


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

urednecku said:


> I some-how missed this thread.
> John Deere balers had 2 different billhooks, 1 for sisal twine only, & 1 called 'multi-twine'.
> I tried last time I baled to use the plastic from my round baler, but it wouldn't tie worth a flip. Just changed them out but it's been raining just enough I haven't had a chance to try them out yet.


Im almost posative that if your using 20000 plastic on your round baler that thats way to small diameter to tie. I use 9000 plastic and even thats small but it works. Sure wears the hands out fast being that thin and imagine 20000 would be like working with dental floss lol.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Will 400m said:


> Im almost posative that if your using 20000 plastic on your round baler that thats way to small diameter to tie. I use 9000 plastic and even thats small but it works. Sure wears the hands out fast being that thin and imagine 20000 would be like working with dental floss lol.


I think that's what happened. I didn't realize there was a difference until I ordered the new billhooks, & changed to the [email protected] the same time I put the new hooks in. Very little problems since then.

And yea, the plastic works on the hands, but that's what my buyer wants. He doesn't even want me to finish the 1/2 rolls of sisal I have left. He picks up behind the baler, so the only time I have to handle one is to move it outta the way.


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