# Need hay baler advice



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey guys, 
Just got another 50 acres of "hay". 
This is not great stuff. It's mostly growing on a flood plain and the owner told me previous contractor was selling it as mushroom hay for many years. They want to change. 
In my little corner of the world, mushroom hay is grown all over the place and supplied to the local musroom farmers. Disadvantage is, it only brings $100/ton. Advantage is it can be baled up immediately and either left outside or taken in and sold to mushroom farmers without drying. 
So my predicament is this: Most mushroom hay is baled in big squares, loaded on flatbeds and sold. My tractor is only 70HP. I think you need 100+ to run a big square baler. Biggest bale I can make is a round bale. Round bales don't transport efficiently. Don't have money for 100+ tractor yet. Haven't bought round baler, having second thoughts on what to do. I like the "round bale" trailer, but pretty big bucks, too. Don't want to lose customer. 
Would like to hear your suggestions


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

How far will you have to ship? If its not very far your shiping costs may not be that much of a problem in big rounds until you can upgrade. Is it possible to get it put up without getting wet? or is it just that weedy? Martin


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

Well I would say there are two options. 1) don't rent it. Doesn't sound like it would be a good deal for u. Or 2) buy a cheap older used round baler. At 100 a ton for cheap hay to me that's a lot of money. I think Ur discounting how easy rnd baled are. I can put 30 5x6 rnd bales on a trailer. For me that would be approx. 27 tons a load. That's good money in my opinion. With my best brome I can usually get $70 a ton. I'd be making a killing at 100 a ton for junk. That's just my opinion. But I'm sure it prob needs to be net wrapped or at the very least plastic twin. But don't get in too deep. 50 acres of mushroom hay isn't worth the cost of a good used rnd baler.


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## jenkinsfarmsinc (Dec 8, 2011)

Do any of the dealers in your area rent equipment? I know our Case IH/New Holland dealer will rent a guy one of their used round balers. We rented one two years ago and they charged $17 a bale to use it. Kind of steep I know, but cheaper then buying one. As far as the big baler goes, from my research, it isn't so much the HP as the weight and size of the tractor. This is what most of the dealers of told me anyhow. Then there's always finding another custom guy with the equipment to come do it for you. We have worked lots of deals with other guys to either go work for them or just pay them for the work. Hope that helps some, good luck!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nitram said:


> How far will you have to ship? If its not very far your shiping costs may not be that much of a problem in big rounds until you can upgrade. Is it possible to get it put up without getting wet? or is it just that weedy? Martin


Not very far. Just a 20 min. drive to most of the mushroom farms. I already have pretty much committed to buying the 644 sileage special round baler. Still negotiating price....

I don't have to pay any rent. Just clear the hay 2x per year. Previous guy had BIG equipment and sold it as mushroom hay. The previous guy made a big mess.

I looked at the round bale trailers. The only problem is they can't do anything else (like a self propelled haybine).

Cockrell Hill Farms, How do you stack rounds on your trailer? Is it a typical dual tandem flatbed? I would rather buy a flatbed I can use year-round for other jobs.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Not very far. Just a 20 min. drive to most of the mushroom farms. I already have pretty much committed to buying the 644 sileage special round baler. Still negotiating price....
> 
> I don't have to pay any rent. Just clear the hay 2x per year. Previous guy had BIG equipment and sold it as mushroom hay. The previous guy made a big mess.
> 
> ...


20 mins! That's close. Sounds like a better deal than I thought. If I use my 40' gooseneck then I put 15-20 bales on a trailer. Just depends on how much I think they weight and distance. Other wise, 30 bales on a drop deck or flatbed semi. 
Stack like this: xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
so they are butted up against each other. Then stack on top of them. Either a another double row or just a single row on top. Then strap them down side to side over the top. On the front bale, you want a strap kinda over the top front so it is pulling backwards and one on the rear bale pulling forward. So they are pulling against each other if that makes sense. I will try to post a couple of pics


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

View attachment 1947
View attachment 1948


Here is a couple of pics on a semi. I don't have any with my gooseneck but same concept.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

That's the way we load rounds on a semi or gooseneck. 4' wide bales fit really well on a deckover gooseneck or semi this way. With a 5', you'll probably have a little hanging past the edges.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So you guys put a double-wide row on bottom and a single row on top? 
Sounds like a plan.....

When I said $100/ton, that was based on last years jacked-up prices. My guess is they could drop to $60-70.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

3430 remember they are not in pa. you go over 8 foot 6 wide in pa you will probably go to jail. check pa dot laws i don't think you can go that wide. call 717-783-1524 pa dot. in maine once we go onto a trailer with a number plate even with a farm plate on the truck 8'6" is the limit. if i am wrong your all set. if i am right you either need a 4 foot wide baler and load flat side out or a five foot wide no bigger than four foot dia. load flat side down. of course it's all legal if you don't get caught but pa has some stiff fines. gary


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

yes PA is strict.


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## FieldRat (Feb 11, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> yes PA is strict.


Here is a clip out of the Vehicle Code for PA, chapter 49 section 21 relating to hauling your crop. There is no mention of special permits for this chapter. 
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter49.pdf

_4921. Width of vehicles.
(a) General rule.--The total outside width of a vehicle, including any load, shall not exceed eight feet except as otherwise provided in this section. With regard to stinger-steered automobile or boat transporters or vehicles operating as provided in section 4908 (relating to operation of certain combinations on interstate and certain other highways), the total width of a vehicle, including any load, shall not exceed eight and one-half feet, except as otherwise provided in this chapter.
(







Special vehicles.--
(1) Any implement of husbandry or vehicle loaded with vegetable produce or forage crops and not exceeding 11 feet in width may be driven, hauled or towed between sunrise and sunset on highways other than freeways._


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Fieldrat.....you need to head up Haytalk's "legal advisory team"!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, so all that being said, why do even the smaller square balers need so much more HP to run than a round baler?


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> OK, so all that being said, why do even the smaller square balers need so much more HP to run than a round baler?


I don't know for sure why this is and hopefully one of the other guys on here can tell you for sure. My take on it is that the round balers turn over easier than a small square since you don't have the constant back-and-forth pounding of the plunger. However, the "required tractor HP" that are stated for equipment can be misleading if you don't know how they arrived at that number. I know that in the last NH small square literature that I looked at, the HP requirement was for a baler operated on flat ground at around 3 mph with no kicker or wagon behind it (just dropping the bales on the ground). You start putting a kicker and wagon behind it and pulling up and down hills, that's going to change things.

For a round baler, I would tend to want a big enough tractor that the round baler wouldn't push the tractor around when there is almost a full bale of hay in it. By the time you get to a tractor that's size enough to have that weight, HP usually isn't a problem anymore. I've also seen a few postings on this site that talked about having a little more HP than needed helped to make better packed/shaped bales.

Hope this helps.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

When pulling a round baler your biggest hp need is as you are starting a new bale and getting up to speed at the same time especially with the newer balers. Mel


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> So you guys put a double-wide row on bottom and a single row on top?
> Sounds like a plan.....


Just depends on your trailer capacity. Keep in mind the loaded weight of course. Lots of folks around here have gone to 4x5 or 4x6 bales just because of loading on a gooseneck. Don't see near as many 5' wide anymore.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I double row the bottom then a row down the middle. I get 14 on the goose and 5 on the Mack flat bed pulling it.

Funny....
My son went to a place to buy a few 4 x 5 Bermuda rolls. He came home with one row down the middle.
The guy had a 5 x 5 baler and just made them 4 feet tall. He said it was the same as a 4 wide and 5 tall. 
Our state police will ticked a load of hay 10 feet wide. They say is is an adjustable load we you elected to exceed 8 feet.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> He said it was the same as a 4 wide and 5 tall.


I just had to check this one out:

5 wide by 4 tall = 62.8 cubic feet

4 wide by 5 tall = 78.2 cubic feet

double the diameter = 3.1416 x the volume
double the length = 2 x the volume


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## FieldRat (Feb 11, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> Our state police will ticked a load of hay 10 feet wide. They say is is an adjustable load we you elected to exceed 8 feet.


If they ticket you for being only 10ft wide on an 8ft wide trailer then it should not stand up in the courts of Alabama, their vehicle code states that you can overhang hay 1ft on each side of the trailer as long as the trailer itself is not more than 102in wide. I was pulled over earlier this year for that same reason in AL but had printed the vehicle code and keep it in the truck for the states that I travel, the trooper was a little peeved at me but I was respectful and got off with a "warning".

Section 32-9-27
"No such trailer shall be in excess of 10 feet in width, except that such trailer shall not exceed 102 inches in width when operated or moved on the Interstate Highway System, and no such trailer, drawbar or other connection, including the vehicle towing such trailer, shall be in excess of overall length of 76 feet. Overhang of round bales of hay on such trailer shall not exceed one foot per side except that the width of the trailer including overhang shall not exceed 102 inches when operated or moved on the Interstate Highway System."


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks FieldRat. I have tried to find the law in print and could not. Normally our state laws have exceptions for farmers/Ag and are tolerant.
I know that tickets hve been given for hauling 5 x 5's two wide on an 8 foot trailer.

I am wondering on what grounds he even was able to give you a warning?


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## FieldRat (Feb 11, 2012)

The warning he gave was very vague, it didn't specify the load or the width kind of like an excessive acceleration ticket. Growing up my cousin was ticketed often by a local sheriff that didn't like him so I made it a point when I started hauling to try and google and print each state law that was providing the exemption. But if they really want to ticket you then they can always find something so I try to not piss any of them off because I'm usually overweight anyway.


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