# MF 390 trouble starting



## Dralon (Mar 13, 2015)

Hello i have a small problem with my Massey 390. I will explain what happened and hopefully someone can help

Okay it started last Saturday. Since i am a very small farmer i buy diesel by the 5 gallons. Less troublesome for me. So anyway i went to get fuel and filled up the tractor. Went to start it, it was just turning but not starting, like if there was air in the system. Before someone ask did not ran out of fuel, when i filled i was still at 1/8.

I went to see my neighbor for help since he repair tractor for a living. He suggested i check my lift pump, maybe the little filter inside was dirty. Well indeed it was dirty so cleaned it, had to open 1 injector and the to my joy it started. Now i started and stopped it about 10 times in that day. Late in the afternoon i went to start it, again same problem. Went to the neighbor suggested the lift pump might be bad and not keep the tractor primed. So Tuesday went and ordered a new lift pump which i received today.

Okay so installed the pump, primed the system ad it would not start. Open an injector nothing. On a crazy idea i decided to open one line straight at the pump and surprisingly it started. I ran with it for over 2 hours no problems. Stopped it and again would not start just turn. Now to start it i have to put the throttle to max and play with the knob at the pump to make it start....

This is annoying anybody can tell me what could be the problem. When it run, i have no problems whatsoever


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Electric selinoid shut off or a pull knob?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Did you change the fuel filters?

Water in the fuel?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Did you check the fitting in the bottom of the fuel tank??

I've had similar situations and come to find out that "gunk" got in the bottom of the tank and would roll around and periodically stop up the fuel tank outlet fitting. Most tractor fuel tanks have a fuel tank shutoff "petcock" valve on the bottom of the tank (at least they used to). Most of them have a small hole where the fuel flows into the valve from the bottom of the tank, and down the valve, past the shutoff needle,and out into the fuel supply line to the lift pump and filters.

If the filters are good and clean and the lift pump is good, then it could very well have some junk in the bottom of the tank. It can come from dirty fuel from gas stations, or crud getting in the fuel can when not in use, or even just dirt and crud sucked into the tank as the tank empties through the vent/cap. It can accumulate on the bottom of the tank and start rolling around with the sloshing fuel and form little balls of crud that plug up stuff...

Always a good idea to use a filter funnel (a big funnel that screws onto the fuel cap opening equipped with a brass 100 mesh screen in the bottom of the funnel to trap any crud in the fuel before it goes in the tractor tank. Even with a filter funnel, it can still end up with dust and crud forming balls on the bottom of the tank...

It's also possible if you have an electric shutoff solenoid on the fuel pump, it could be sticking or not working properly... I've got on tractor that I removed the solenoid because it was so problematical, and installed a kill cable. Works great now.

If you're having to crack and bleed the fuel lines (open the fitting and crank the engine to dispel air from the injector lines) you have a blockage somewhere or a pinhole somewhere that's sucking air into the lines and the injection pump pushes it into the lines... while the engine is running, it can handle a little air, but when it's shut down and you go to start again, it probably won't inject at all until the line is bled...

I'd start with the outlet fitting in the bottom of the tank, and work forward from there, following the path of the fuel down the line through the lift pump to the injection pump.

You did bleed the filter of air properly, and make sure all the bleed fittings and line fittings are snug right?? That could allow air into the system too...

Later and good luck! OL JR


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

MF 390 has a mechanical fuel shut off.

Agree that it could be something in the tank.It could also be alage growing in the tank.

Check to see if fuel getting in the oil.Could be O ring in fuel pump.


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## timberjackrob (Feb 16, 2015)

sounds like something in the tank blocking the fuel outlet my 375 had a screen where the fuel supply line went into the injector pump might want to check that too.


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## Dralon (Mar 13, 2015)

Weather was bad so i was able to do a couple of test since the tractor sits outside. Like i said if it sits a few hours i need to bleed one line directly at the injector pump. Yesterday while the tractor was running i cracked open each injector to let air out to be sure. Also after reading a few stories about ultra low sulfur diesel i added Diesel Kleen. After that, if i stop the tractor and immediately restart it, it will restart unlike before. Even yesterday it started after one hour of sitting. This morning just turning. During some of the test i made i was able to restart it without bleeding but throttle at maximum. It is a very odd problem and very annoying. Once started no problem it runs great no problem what so ever just a pain to start it. Since the lift pump is new and up to the filter everything is good could it be an injector pump issue? or could it be that strangely i got bad fuel since like i said it started after filling it up?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Sounds like maybe bad fuel... very weird...

You're sure everything is flowing freely to the lift pump?? Even with a brand new filter, if it picked up sludge, it could be choking off the flow...

Having it start at full throttle but not otherwise sounds like a supply problem. It's possible it could be in the injection pump... something out of whack maybe...
Good luck with it! OL JR


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## Dralon (Mar 13, 2015)

sorry guys for the lack of update. now here is what happened monday after 5 minutes of trying i started the tractor and send it to a local mechanic. Left the tractor there over night next morning he took the key and it started and to make it worse it just keeps on starting now. So i actually have no idea what happened ... hopefully it will keep on working fine


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm just spit-balling here, as I am not familiar with your tractor. My tractor had a very similar condition. My problem was slime in the tank. I could blow backward thru the line, dislodge the obstruction, and blow enough air into the tank that the fuel would run back out of the line that I had taken off of the suction side of the lift pump. I periodically fought and fought the problem. I observed that I could see the fuel level in the water separator bulb was low (due to vacuum) when the problem occurred.

I also have a hand prime pump on the top of my filter housing. The way my prime pump works, you pump it until it stays down. If no prime, pump actuator is spring loaded and will rise back up for the next pump... anyhow, the pump actuator SHOULD not be up. I noticed when the separator level was low, the handle was up...bottom line, there was enough of an obstruction in the line to make the rubber suction line collapse. The low separator level and raised pump actuator were noticeable even when tractor would restart, but indicated I was fixin to have problems again.


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## avarageerod (Dec 15, 2015)

I know this is a couple of months old, but my Massey Ferguson 399 has the exact same starting issue. I finally figured out that if it doesn't want to start, I tap the injection pump *gently* with a rubber hammer and it will start. It doesn't do it often, and there is no consistency about it, but it always starts after tapping the pump.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> Agree that it could be something in the tank.It could also be alage growing in the tank.


All good suggestions, but my guess is that most likely algae is plugging things up if you are buying filling station diesel. All diesel has a little water in it but it's usually handled by the fuel filter. The diesel trucks/cars that use filling station diesel typically burn through it pretty quickly so it never amounts to much. Farm equipment, especially in winter, just sits there and condensation can increase the water content. My co-op adds additives to the diesel they put in my tank, and I've never had any problems. Filling station diesel is a completely different story and typically doesn't have anything added to it. When algae starts growing it can do strange things. A typical algae produces hydrogen sulfide and I've seen it eat right through an aluminum tank over time. There are lots of additives out there and I'm not sure what is best for your climate/situation, but I'd sure start with STA-BIL for diesel.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Mike120 said:


> All good suggestions, but my guess is that most likely algae is plugging things up if you are buying filling station diesel. All diesel has a little water in it but it's usually handled by the fuel filter. The diesel trucks/cars that use filling station diesel typically burn through it pretty quickly so it never amounts to much. Farm equipment, especially in winter, just sits there and condensation can increase the water content. My co-op adds additives to the diesel they put in my tank, and I've never had any problems. Filling station diesel is a completely different story and typically doesn't have anything added to it. When algae starts growing it can do strange things. A typical algae produces hydrogen sulfide and I've seen it eat right through an aluminum tank over time. There are lots of additives out there and I'm not sure what is best for your climate/situation, but I'd sure start with STA-BIL for diesel.


A lot of fuel suppliers deliver straight #2 diesel if you don't request the premium fuel.Typically the cheapest fuel supplier around.A lot of people only look at the price of Diesel and don't pay the extra .05-.10 per gal for premium fuel.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

What is Premium Diesel? I made the mistake of taking one of my diesel trucks up to MN/ND/SD once in the summer and the only places I could find diesel was at truck stops. I never saw anything labeled "premium". Down here it's either the filling station variety or "off-road" (Tax-free with red dye). Mine is delivered from the co-op and they add a couple of additives for water removal, lubrication and injector cleaning.

A friend was using the filling station variety and had all kinds of plugging issues with algae. Stuff ate holes in the aluminum transport tank he was using to get it with and I had to put a patch on it for him. Not sure what he's adding to the diesel now, but no more problems.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Mike120 said:


> What is Premium Diesel? I made the mistake of taking one of my diesel trucks up to MN/ND/SD once in the summer and the only places I could find diesel was at truck stops. I never saw anything labeled "premium". Down here it's either the filling station variety or "off-road" (Tax-free with red dye). Mine is delivered from the co-op and they add a couple of additives for water removal, lubrication and injector cleaning.
> 
> A friend was using the filling station variety and had all kinds of plugging issues with algae. Stuff ate holes in the aluminum transport tank he was using to get it with and I had to put a patch on it for him. Not sure what he's adding to the diesel now, but no more problems.


premium diesel has additives in it,supposed to be better for injectors,pumps etc.All fuel starts out as #2 diesel fuel then additives are added usually at the rack when filling transports that deliver it to the stations,co-ops,etc.
Not all stations carry a premium diesel at the pump,most truck stops run straight #2 because it's cheaper.
As example Cenex has premium farm fuel that is called Ruby Red for the premium,Winter master has additives and is supposed to be good to -35 and they have straight #2 at the pump.
All Mn diesel is a B-5 blend 5% biodiesel mostly made from soybean oil.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Here is example of premium diesel.

http://www.cenex.com/fuels/cenex-ruby-fieldmaster


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> premium diesel has additives in it,supposed to be better for injectors,pumps etc.All fuel starts out as #2 diesel fuel then additives are added usually at the rack when filling transports that deliver it to the stations,co-ops,etc.
> Not all stations carry a premium diesel at the pump,most truck stops run straight #2 because it's cheaper.
> As example Cenex has premium farm fuel that is called Ruby Red for the premium,Winter master has additives and is supposed to be good to -35 and they have straight #2 at the pump.
> All Mn diesel is a B-5 blend 5% biodiesel mostly made from soybean oil.


Thanks, that's what I assumed you meant.....I just never ran into it up there. That was the only time I took a diesel truck up there and never again. Years ago I put the sulfur recovery unit in the Murphy Refinery (now Calumet) in Superior WI, where your diesel likely comes from. The before and after lab results on the diesel were pretty striking. It needs additives.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Mike120 said:


> Thanks, that's what I assumed you meant.....I just never ran into it up there. That was the only time I took a diesel truck up there and never again. Years ago I put the sulfur recovery unit in the Murphy Refinery (now Calumet) in Superior WI, where your diesel likely comes from. The before and after lab results on the diesel were pretty striking. It needs additives.


If you are ever up here again look for the Cenex stations not the big truck stops if looking for a premium fuel.Some others have premium also but truck stops tend to run straight #2.

Fuel and gas are trucked into this area from tank farms that are fed by pipelines.Mostly out of Sioux Falls SD.I wasn't even aware that there is a refinery at Superior.None in Mn that I'm aware of.They were trying to get one built near Sioux Falls but the tree huggers shut it down,pipeline out of ND to feed it would of been perfect.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Wasn't that refinery part of the propane shortage here a couple years ago? IIRC they switched a pipeline coming from Canada to oil (planned on railing it). Then there was an oil boom. And the trains got busy!


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Mike120 said:


> Thanks, that's what I assumed you meant.....I just never ran into it up there. That was the only time I took a diesel truck up there and never again. Years ago I put the sulfur recovery unit in the Murphy Refinery (now Calumet) in Superior WI, where your diesel likely comes from. The before and after lab results on the diesel were pretty striking. It needs additives.


Were you able to find a bar in Soup Town?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> Wasn't that refinery part of the propane shortage here a couple years ago? IIRC they switched a pipeline coming from Canada to oil (planned on railing it). Then there was an oil boom. And the trains got busy!


I'm not sure, this was back around 2003 when the EPA was trying pull all the sulfur out of diesel, kero, and jet fuel all over the country. I got talked into moving back from the Middle East by a friend who was trying to turn around a dysfunctional engineering & construction company. They had a number of sulfur unit projects around the country and that one was the most screwed up. I got a real education on how to do process plant construction during your winters up there. When we finally got it started up, I was pretty convinced that I could build a plant at the North Pole 'cause there wasn't any difference.



deadmoose said:


> Were you able to find a bar in Soup Town?


Other than the refinery, I think that's all that was there. I always stayed in Duluth, which was a lot more civilized, plus my son's in-laws lived there. As far as I could tell there were only two kinds of bars in Superior.....Those with booze/food and those with booze/bar munchies. Mostly the latter. I liked your side of the creek better, but not the weather.....


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Yup. That's Superior. 3 or 4 bars for every household.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

deadmoose said:


> Yup. That's Superior. 3 or 4 bars for every household.


I've been to Superior twice.Once on our way back from Lake of the Woods we came down the shoreline sight seeing and ended up in Superior for the night.Looked out the motel window and a couple hookers were walking threw the parking lot.Well maybe they weren't hookers but they had high heels and short short mini skirts on.Kinda chili for that in northern Mn/Wisc in Feb.The 2nd time I picked up a forklift that I bought on a online auction.It was next to a old grain terminal that used to load the ships with wheat.A old guy about 85 owned it and was trying to sell the old wood out of it for reclaimed wood.He had it advertised as 1M board feet of reclaimed wood for sale.Interesting old guy,he had a office with livening quarters right next to the water.He had owned some resteraunts in Superior also.He had a race car there that he ran also yrs before in storage.The way it sounded Superior was a boom town at one time with the ships loading wheat or taconite there.


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