# Sorghum Sudan



## allamericancowboy86 (Jul 15, 2013)

Hey Yall,

I have a 20 acre field coming out of crop that I am looking to put in hay. I got the field on short notice so I couldnt plant last fall. My partner and I have been tossing around the Idea of putting it in Sorghum Sudan this year and then planting into the tradtional fescue mix next fall. My concerns are that we do not have a conditioner. We do have a tedder. I am bailing with a New Holland 848 that despises wet grass (cloggs the pick up easily). I was hoping for some pearls of wisdom from those who have working with the stuff.

Thanks, David


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Do you like to gamble with the weather?

Up until last year I planted a BMR sudex. If what you plant is anything like that, a conditioner is almost a must.

It would have to be tedded multiple, multiple times. In good weather, you could get a lot of it drided down in 10-14 days. The stems would be your concern. Without crushing them with a conditioner, they will be tough to dry out. Do you have a tedder that can handle all of this wet material in the days after cutting?

You could try planting it thick in order to keep the stem size smaller and cutting it early.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Here on our farm we really like oats hay and never had any luck with sorghum or Sudan grass at all for trying to bale dry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

endrow said:


> Here on our farm we really like oats hay and never had any luck with sorghum or Sudan grass at all for trying to bale dry


So, in the 2 bale pic, is the bale on the left oat hay and the one on the right Orchard grass?

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

allamericancowboy86 said:


> Hey Yall,
> 
> I have a 20 acre field coming out of crop that I am looking to put in hay. I got the field on short notice so I couldnt plant last fall. My partner and I have been tossing around the Idea of putting it in Sorghum Sudan this year and then planting into the tradtional fescue mix next fall. My concerns are that we do not have a conditioner. We do have a tedder. I am bailing with a New Holland 848 that despises wet grass (cloggs the pick up easily). I was hoping for some pearls of wisdom from those who have working with the stuff.
> 
> Thanks, David


I have successfully planted Orchard grass here in the spring more than once. Just get it in as early as you can work the ground. And I also have successfully planted fescue in the Spring.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

If you don't have a conditioner forget about sorghum sudan. I have successfully baled BMR sorghum sudan dry the past two years and it took about 4- 5 days of 90 degree weather to get it dry after mowing with a conditioner and tedding twice. The fall cutting took 8 days to dry with 70 degree weather. Pearl millet would be another option for a summer hay crop but it is also a little difficult to get dry and I wouldn't attempt it without a conditioner.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

For Sorghum Sudan bale and wrap it or forget it. In PA I often let it lay 3-4 days before baling and wrapping. You could try something like peal millet like someone already suggested. Oats is also another good idea. Cheap to plant and makes a good feed.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yep, planting thick and cutting it when it gets about 3-4 feet tall is the ticket unless you have a conditioner...

That's how my Granddad used to do it... makes REALLY nice hay if you do it that way-- almost all leaf, very little stem (and what stem there is is very small...)

Just don't let it get big and stemmy on you... that stuff is VERY hard to get dry even down here on the SE TX coast with a lot of near 100 degree days and plenty of scorching sun... S. Illinois-- whoa wouldn't even want to think about trying to dry stemmy grazer up there...

Later and good luck! OL JR


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

One problem is that it does not take long to go from small stems and leafy to tall and stemmy. If you catch a heavy rain at the wrong time it can get away from you. Reminds me of when I mowed ours and I could not see the mower conditioner through the "trees" of sudan grass.

Can also be taxing on your mower because of the high yielding fast growth.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Vol said:


> So, in the 2 bale pic, is the bale on the left oat hay and the one on the right Orchard grass?
> 
> Regards, Mike


a little better picture of the oats mixed with a little bit of alfalfa..


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I would love to chop the stuff and feed it that way. Round bales just don't work that well. The stuff is long and coarse so the cattle can easily sort the stuff. Waste is much higher than on grass hay.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

PaMike said:


> I would love to chop the stuff and feed it that way. Round bales just don't work that well. The stuff is long and coarse so the cattle can easily sort the stuff. Waste is much higher than on grass hay.


Just like feeding haylage. We mow and chop at boot stage cutting height of 6 inches as we handle it as a one cut crop. Leave it lay a day or two and it makes great heifer feed. Cut earlier it makes great lactating cow feed. Makes a sweeter feed than haylage


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

1st cutting this year took 23 days to dry. 2nd cutting 18 days. Sudan sucks even in our sub arid climate.

Trey


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

We have found a pretty big difference in stem size from different seed suppliers. This next year we will cut three times instead of just one in the fall. Also set up for wrapping as we have a new Deere Sileage Special ordered.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

treymo said:


> 1st cutting this year took 23 days to dry. 2nd cutting 18 days. Sudan sucks even in our sub arid climate.
> 
> Trey


Did you cut it with a machine with a conditioner? If so what brand & type? Normally Sudan takes about 5-7 days to dry enough to bale here in Texas


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## allamericancowboy86 (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone, My thought was to cut it as short as possible without having problems with nitrate toxicity...But the weather in good Ole Southern Illinois is as tempermental as it comes. Probably just going to throw out orchard grass, fescue, and legume mix and stick to what I know!

Thanks.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

If one is striving for more than one cutting of Sudan one needs to cut so the stubble is cut above the 1st node of stalks so plant can recover from cutting easier. I also think disc cutters affect Sudan stand because they shatter Sudan stalks while cutting causing some plants to die more so in drought conditions.


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## prairie (Jun 20, 2008)

Either plant your fescue mix this spring , or a spring small grain for hay. Oats, Spring triticale, wheat or barley, or trigrain mix.

Follow up with foxtail millet for hay, then plant your fescue mix.

Foxtail millet will be easier to dry than pearl millet or sorgo/sudans, has little to no regrowth, and is an excellent stubble to no-till a hay seeding into.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

prairie said:


> Either plant your fescue mix this spring , or a spring small grain for hay. Oats, Spring triticale, wheat or barley, or trigrain mix.
> 
> Follow up with foxtail millet for hay, then plant your fescue mix.
> 
> Foxtail millet will be easier to dry than pearl millet or sorgo/sudans, has little to no regrowth, and is an excellent stubble to no-till a hay seeding into.


Foxtail Millet makes great hay.....but is nearly impossible to keep from lodging here. Too many thunderstorms here....it also makes for terrific food plots for September Dove hunts.

Regards, Mike


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

Pretty close to your area . If the ground is tolleriable as far as smoothness I'd take a 4 wheeler/utv this spring , end of Feb , and sow what you want . Grasses won't show up quick and might suggest going heavy on something like red clover . Will come up quicker , grow faster, and provide nitrogen for the grass .I have a lot of good luck doing it this way . But I also like a smooth field and that sometimes changes my mind .


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Jim- I cut it with a 4995 John Deere rotary and the crimpers were grinding good. Just had some untimely rains.

Trey


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

Hi I'm in Texas her you can do it but I'd suggest to plant the sweet bites. It matures around 3-4 foot tall normally unlike the Gotcha plus variety. One more thing lay it thin and wide as possible to help it dry. I personally run a conditioner and use the gotcha plus that grows 9-12 foot tall you get a lot more per acre. When you plant the sweet bites 3-5 bales per acre is still very possible. I hope this helps a little I had to do it this way when I was starting out and had lil equipment at my disposal.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

They're planning on trying some BMR here this year.

My question is how do you cut 6" high with a DiscBine? We run high stubble shoes and that will only get you about 3 1/2-4" high. There's still a HayBine here that you can somewhat control the height just by not not letting it down onto the shoes so we could use that but no one wants to use the HayBine anymore unless they have too.

Neighbor says you can put cylinder limiters on the lift cylinders, not the tilt cylinder, and limit how how far down the head will go. Is that possible with a NH H7000 series DiscBine?

Limiters like these:


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

I use a John Deere Moco with it there is a high crop extension you can put on the skid shoes to get 6 inches. A friend of mine has a new holland 1431 I believe center pivot. He also changed his skid shoes out to a high crop he can get pretty tall with them but not as tall as I can. He's told me there are limiter that he can put on it to raise it even higher I believe he's referring to the ones that your talking about or NH may make a set for it. I would try seeing if they have a high crop skid shoe first so your cutter bar will float better over the ground and it will follow the contour of the ground better. I hope this helps.


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

Matter of fact I know for sure the make one that should fit. There are 2-3 different skid shoe heights that you can get for them.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I've only seen two heights listed, normal and high stubble shoes we put on from NH but I'll check into it. There's a place PA that makes shoes for Haybines at fraction of the cost from NH. Might check with them and see what they have. Last my wife used the 478 HayBine she came in with one shoe in two pieces so it ready for a repair or new pair shoes.

Thanks for the info. Had no idea they had them higher than what we have.


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Why are you needing to cut it 6 inches high?

Trey


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

I cut it that high so it will come back if you cut it below the first nodule or segment you'll kill the plant so I cut mine at six to be on the safe side when it regrows it'll send up 2-4 shoots versus the original one so most of the time itll be a lil thicker or it'll help make up for the ones that don't regrow due to dry weather or stalk shatter


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## BrangusFeeder (Jan 29, 2015)

Do y'all think I could plant sorghum Sudan bmr and stockpile it as winter forage? It's known to grow very well here and I know my dad used to plant it when he sold hay.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Yes you can plant & harvest Sudan BMR in N Texas. Where are you located in N.Texas?


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

We cut Sudan flat on the ground and never have a problem getting the second growth to come in.

Trey


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Wife has already said they're going to try at least 10-12 acres of BMR. Anyone ever try any of the Southern States varieties of BMR for hay?


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

Yes,we've never experienced any problems with it around here or at least I've heard. We've planted it several times and about every year we've had good luck with it.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

By "stockpiling it" do you mean leaving it stand in the field for winter grazing (strip grazing presumably to reduce waste)??

That's an interesting question, and I'll certainly defer to those with more experience, but if that's the case the first answer that comes to mind would be "not likely"...

Sure, you can let it grow and "stockpile" for winter feed in the field, but it's going to get over-mature, go to seed, and dry down... most of the feed value will be long gone and you'll have a lot of 10-12 foot tall cane poles with a sorghum head on top and coarse, dry leaves for the cattle to eat come winter, with most of the nutrition pumped out of them and into the grain head... Sorghum-sudan should be cut at the boot stage for maximum yield/quality, because if you let it go into the heading stage, (where it's fully headed out with a grain head) the stalk gets VERY thick and coarse and woody and the plant sucks the leaves dry of nutrients to put into the grain (reproductive stage) head so the quality goes to pot, even though the tonnage yield is higher... cows won't hardly eat those cane-poles either... they'll strip the leaves off them and leave them laying on the ground for bedding at best. Really for MAXIMUM quality with sorghum sudan, it's best to plant thick and cut it when it's about chest high (3-4 feet high), when it's VERY leafy and the stems are still small, maybe about pinky-finger diameter or so... the tonnage yield is actually less (naturally, since it's less than half the maximum height the plant is capable of growing to) BUT the crop is coming off as highly nutritious leaves and fine stems, which the cattle will eat, and which is MUCH easier to mow, cure, rake, and bale. Course "stockpiled" forage (standing forage) for winter grazing isn't going to have that luxury-- it's going to go through the full life cycle, heading out, until frost kills it, which is going to mean cane poles, dry leaves, and a little grain head up top for the birds... IOW, no quality.

The only way I can think of that this might work is if one planted late enough and thick enough that you had it get 3-4 feet high and thick as hair on a dog's back about the time that frost kills it... then *theoretically* you could strip graze it with pretty high quality... maybe. Course if frost is early, you might get *nothing* or foot-tall sprigs with no yield, or if frost is late you'll end up with cane poles again...

IF this is what you're even talking about... LOL Usually "stockpiled" standing grass for winter forage is a shorter perennial type grass like Bermuda or something... from what I've seen anyway.

Later! OL JR


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> Wife has already said they're going to try at least 10-12 acres of BMR. Anyone ever try any of the Southern States varieties of BMR for hay?


 I haven't planted any of southern states sorghum sudan but something I notice is their seeding rates are way low for hay. Any variety of sorghum sudan you plant for hay you will want about 50 pounds an acre to give you smaller stalks that will dry down much faster. If you plant the 20-25 pounds they suggest the stalks will be like corn stalks and won't hardly dry down for hay......I found out the hard way. 20-25 pounds might be fine for silage but gives you way too big of a stalk for dry hay.


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

If we drill our Sudan we plant 50\60 lbs per acre if we broadcast we do 100lbs per acre. Those rates help keep the plants from getting to stemmy, most around here plant pretty close to that rate.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Grateful11 said:


> Wife has already said they're going to try at least 10-12 acres of BMR. Anyone ever try any of the Southern States varieties of BMR for hay?


Call Evergreen in Fuquay.

http://www.evergreenseed.com/Rice%20Fuqauy/contact.html

I planted quite a bit of their BMR. Drought in TX doesn't help the price. Maybe it's come back down by now.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> I haven't planted any of southern states sorghum sudan but something I notice is their seeding rates are way low for hay. Any variety of sorghum sudan you plant for hay you will want about 50 pounds an acre to give you smaller stalks that will dry down much faster. If you plant the 20-25 pounds they suggest the stalks will be like corn stalks and won't hardly dry down for hay......I found out the hard way. 20-25 pounds might be fine for silage but gives you way too big of a stalk for dry hay.


Yea that's what I was thinking because everything I've read on here said around 50 lbs. to the acre for smaller stems.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Bonfire said:


> Call Evergreen in Fuquay.
> 
> http://www.evergreenseed.com/Rice%20Fuqauy/contact.html
> 
> I planted quite a bit of their BMR. Drought in TX doesn't help the price. Maybe it's come back down by now.


Thanks Bonfire. I noticed on their website it says they're a wholesale distributor, do they sell to individuals or would one have go through one of their buyers?


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Grateful11 said:


> Thanks Bonfire. I noticed on their website it says they're a wholesale distributor, do they sell to individuals or would one have go through one of their buyers?


I've been to both. During a price upswing, I've found older stock at the retailer cheaper. If they let you get product from their warehouse, that's between you and EG. Dealer no need to know.

That Hay Master and Xtragraze BMR is what I always got.


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