# Pz zweeger cm 120



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

I might be looking at a Pz Zweeger cm120 drum mower but I wanted to get some opinions of them first. Anybody use them? Like them? Hate them? What should I look for? I understand zweeger was the company that pioneered the design but has been bought out. Are parts still available?


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Luke strawwalker will have something to say. Pretty sure he may have written a novel on zweegers.


----------



## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't know if this will help your question, I bought a SFI 135 (2555) drum mower and was (I'm not saying it was SFI that said that) told it's the same machine as the zweeger. Mine was manuffacturered in Turkey. Now I don't know if they're splitting hairs when I was told that by meaning the design was the same. I assuming bearings will be off the shelf from a bearing house as are belts. The blades can A & I or Tisco replacement blade. A local auto/boat upholstry shop said he could make a curtain if need be. If you can weld a little or have a farm/welding shop nearby, I would think you would have most of the repair worries covered. As always in varies with the amount mechanical abitilty you have. I'm not a fan of big implement dealer type support anyways as they have to pass on their overhead costs. In my area all the walk in shops all cater to the big corperate farms with high horsepower equipment and if you walk in with a small operation problem you'll get cold shouldered, just how current american business operates. bjr


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Thanks bjr. I talked with someone else that had a drum mower made in Turkey but they couldn't remember the name. As far as repairs go, I'm a machinist by trade and also a certified 2g welder so I hope I can handle repairs. As for dealers, we have 3 close by, 2 big one small. The small tried to go big after the original owner (his dad) passed but soon he was bankrupt and had to close. He learned a lesson and reopened a much smaller place and went back to doing things the way his dad did for 50 or so years.


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yep Zweegers is a good mower... Parts still available... We bought a CM212 (7'-6" cut) in about 88-89 and still running strong all these years later... Used to cut a lot of road side hay and that's hard on mowers but it handled it fine... Just to much junk out there anymore to bother with it and our county is "too urban" to let folks cut road hay anymore... Lol.

When we bought ours, the disk and drum mowers were just coming into our area... Just looking at it, I like the idea of six gears in the top mounted gearbox rather than 23 gears (iirc) in a bottom mounted gear bed cutter bar running in the dirt, which is why we bought it. Been a real good cutter, did a lot of hay and custom work over the years. Just wish it was 9 foot cut lol...

PZ Zweegers pioneered the drum mowers iirc... They got bought out by Greenland and sold the same mowers and hay tools as "PZ Greenland" for some years... Greenland got bought by the Kverneland group... The make Kverneland, Vicon, Kubota, etc...

The Turkish made ones, I don't know about... Probably a cheap clone of the original design from what I've seen and read of them online... Iow cheap knockoff IMHO... Might be okay, might not... Get what you pay for IMHO... Kinda like the cheap Italian knockoff disk mowers IMHO... Some folks do okay with them from what I've heard... They sell enough of them I guess they're not too bad...

Wouldn't be afraid of another Zweegers... German or Holland built Equipment has always been really good to us... (Including a claas built ford combine). I like em. Really well built and well designed...

Unfortunately, or dealer tried a little bit of everything... Nh disk, Kuhn disk, Zweegers drum, even Reese drum mowers for awhile... Now he only sells Kuhn disk mowers, despite being a nh dealer... If I get a 9 foot cutter, I'm getting a nh... Looks more durable than Kuhn... Parts are cheaper too.

Good luck... OL JR


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Thanks Luke. Any idea on what cut a cm 120 might be? Everything I find when I search for a cm 120 brings up a cm 165.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I assumed the model was straight forward. 120 cm. 1.2 m. 4 ft.

I am sure someone will correct me with the real reason and size.


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Hmmm. That makes a little to much sense.


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

thendrix said:


> Thanks Luke. Any idea on what cut a cm 120 might be? Everything I find when I search for a cm 120 brings up a cm 165.


I think basically they named them after the cut width... mine is a CM212, which at 2.45 centimeters per inch works out to 86.5 inches, or 7.21 feet in cut width...

So a CM 120 should be 120 centimeters wide cut width, which would be 120/2.45=49 inches, basically (rounded), or just over a four foot cut width... (4 foot 1 inch). A CM 165 would be 1.65 meters wide, and at 39.4 inches per meter, would be 67 inches wide cut, or a little over 5.6 feet...

Hope this helps...

Later! OL JR


----------



## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

My DM 135 was advertised to have a 55" cut. bjr


----------



## wittegeit (Jul 12, 2009)

Kuhn bought the former P.J.Zweegers company in Geldrop Netherlands in 2009 from Kverneland.

In this factory the drummowers are still built, and now are Kuhn branded. (also the round and square balers and the wrappers are produced in this Kuhn factory)

I know that Kuhn is selling the PZ 170 drummower also in the USA.


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Does that mean it's safe to say I could get parts from kuhn if (and when) needed?


----------



## wittegeit (Jul 12, 2009)

I would say yes no problem, but it's always clever to ask your local dealer.


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Thanks everybody. Sounds like a drum mower may be about right for my needs


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

wittegeit said:


> Kuhn bought the former P.J.Zweegers company in Geldrop Netherlands in 2009 from Kverneland.
> 
> In this factory the drummowers are still built, and now are Kuhn branded. (also the round and square balers and the wrappers are produced in this Kuhn factory)
> 
> I know that Kuhn is selling the PZ 170 drummower also in the USA.


Interesting... didn't know that!

Our NH dealer only sells new Kuhn mowers... the newer style with the top service hubs, and the older, cheaper style with the non-top service hubs... They don't carry any drum mowers anymore. They carried Zweegers for a few years when the drum and disk mowers started coming into our part of the country in the late 80's/early 90's, when folks were just starting to transition from sicklebar machines over to disk/drum type mowers... Once it became apparent that most folks would go with the disk mowers, he quit carrying the drum mowers, other than a brief flirtation with the Reese drum mowers before he quit carrying anything but disk mowers.

I'll probably eventually replace my old drum mower with a disk mower, but when I do, more than likely I'll go with the New Holland-- I like the module design MUCH better than the oil bath gearbed cutterbar style like Kuhn, from a maintenance standpoint anyway... I've run a new-style Kuhn for a fellow custom cutter hereabouts, and its a fine mower and does a good job, but just from a maintenance and durability standpoint, I like the design of the NH better...

Later! OL JR


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

thendrix said:


> Thanks everybody. Sounds like a drum mower may be about right for my needs


They're good cutters and hold up well, at least in my experience...

If you're doing a lot of acres or very pressed for time, face a lot of inclement weather, have tougher drying conditions, etc, you might want to assess your options carefully first.

One thing I'm not crazy about is the fact that it windrows the hay in the swath behind the cutter... both drums, turning towards each other, sweep the hay in to the center and discharge it out the back as the drums run out from under it. This little windrow can be heck to dry early and late in the year, and in certain crops. During the heat of the summer (97-100 typically) it's not an issue, especially in regular grass hays, but with sorghum/sudan, it's a total PITA... REALLY delays drying. Really early or late in the year, it can pose challenges too. Tedding the hay alleviates most of those problems (and yeah, it'd be a lot better to condition sorghum/sudan, if one has a crimper). If you don't have a tedder though.... well....

The Reese drum mowers addressed this problem by adding a belt-driven 'spreader" on the back of their mowers, where the hay comes out on the ground between the drums-- a set of revolving fingers or tines sorta 'tedders' it across the swath into the last swath directly behind the tractor, spreading the hay out over the ground fairly evenly. This would help tremendously but Zweegers never offered an option like this... only ones that do is Reese, that I've ever seen or read about anyway...

If you're doing a lot of small fields, they're the berries... BUT, if you're trying to cover a lot of ground in a hurry, or have a limited time due to off-farm work or other work on the farm, etc, you might think about a wider mower, even if that means used vs. new. I know I've basically "hit the wall" in that I covered about 44 acres last fall with mine in a single 14 hour day... BUT that was with only TWO stops to pee, of about 45 seconds to a minute each... and maybe a minute or two to worm through the gate between patches... the rest of the time I was cutting full bore at 6mph on my Ford 5610S 70 horse tractor. After finishing that day I thought about how nice it would be to have a 9-9.5 foot mower instead of a 7-7.5 foot... 

One other thing-- drum mowers are HEAVY... the Zweegers (and most drum mowers I've seen) fold STRAIGHT BACK... they don't fold UPWARDS like every disk and sickle mower I've ever seen... This puts a LOT of weight far behind the tractor, and my 5610S gets pretty light on the front when its folded, even with a 150 gallon spray tank, saddle, and 6 inch channel iron frame mounted out the front to hold the tank... I usually add about 50 gallons of water just to improve the steering... On a lighter tractor, it'd probably pick the front end up completely off the ground rather than the mower, unless you add a full set of weights or something. Might be something to keep in mind when you consider what tractor you plan to pull it with. The rear fold also precludes the possibility of putting it on a caddy for easier hookup and switchout between hay tools, if that's an issue for you. Hitching can be a bear at times, because the mower is too heavy to "worm around" as you need to align the hitch pins. Zweegers DID offer a hydraulic vertical-fold option years ago, though that's the only one I've seen that offers that, and I'm not sure they do anymore, and it's an extra cost option. None of the other drum mowers I've seen even offer that option.

One other thing you might consider, don't know if its an issue for you or not, is resale. If you want to trade it off later on something bigger/newer, you might take a bath on it. Not much of an issue for me, because usually we buy something and run it til it's ready for the junkyard, or retire it to "backup status" and keep it around... Something to think about anyway, as the demand for them is lower and dealers might not be too excited to take it in on trade, or you might have more problems selling it yourself versus a disk mower.

If, OTOH, you're doing a lot of small, irregular shaped fields, time isn't that much of an issue for you, you have a good size match tractor wise to handle it, and resale isn't much of an issue, then a drum mower will give years of reliable service in tough conditions...

One other thing-- the Zweegers folds by lowering it to the ground, pulling a rope to release the spring-loaded catch, then driving forward while turning to the left, swinging the mower straight back behind the tractor, until the spring-loaded latch automatically snaps in. Then you pick up the three point and tug another rope to flip over a "transport lock" to prevent it from bouncing on the counterbalance springs that lighten the ground pressure while mowing. Unfolding is the reverse-- flip the transport lock back out with the rope tug, lower the mower, pull the fold latch release rope and hold it, and back up to the left to swing the mower from behind to beside the tractor until the latch snaps in. SOME drum mowers are MANUAL FOLD-- *I* would personally AVOID any drum mower that was manual fold-- like I said-- they're HEAVY and if it's not perfectly level or whatever, folding them COULD *really* be a bear!!!

That said, something for you to think about before making your final decision-- Good luck!!!

OL JR


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Thanks Luke. I'll be cutting 30 to 40 acres a year (15 to 20 twice a year) and the biggest one is 6 or so acres. And like you we usually run thinks to death and then some so I don't think resale will be a problem. What has us headed in this direction is we used to raise cows on this farm. The fence around it was built about 30 years ago and NEEDS replacing. There were 2 ice storms in georgia a year ago this past January and during both I was going to get cows back in the fence and fixing where they went out. This didn't sit well with my boss and the wife was less pleased. On top of that, we want to sell or place and move a little further north which would put me farther away and cattle getting out would make more of an inconvenience. I figure as many horse and small cattle farms as are popping up here they've all got to feed hay so why not deal with the headaches of the hay field in the summer and let them deal with chasing cattle in the ice and snow or at 1am after the neighbor calls and is PISSED!


----------



## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

You can get a small disc mower and be a lot better off...just saying..


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

thendrix said:


> Thanks Luke. I'll be cutting 30 to 40 acres a year (15 to 20 twice a year) and the biggest one is 6 or so acres. And like you we usually run thinks to death and then some so I don't think resale will be a problem. What has us headed in this direction is we used to raise cows on this farm. The fence around it was built about 30 years ago and NEEDS replacing. There were 2 ice storms in georgia a year ago this past January and during both I was going to get cows back in the fence and fixing where they went out. This didn't sit well with my boss and the wife was less pleased. On top of that, we want to sell or place and move a little further north which would put me farther away and cattle getting out would make more of an inconvenience. I figure as many horse and small cattle farms as are popping up here they've all got to feed hay so why not deal with the headaches of the hay field in the summer and let them deal with chasing cattle in the ice and snow or at 1am after the neighbor calls and is PISSED!


Oh, I hear ya...

Yeah, sounds like a drum mower would be good for that situation. Shouldn't have too much problem drying hay in your area. Guess you're planning on Tifton??

BTDT WRT the fences... We used to farm cotton on our home place here along with 14 acres of pasture with a few head on it, that I'd also bale part of a time or two a year... those fences were overgrown with trees and brush and vines and crap and were literally 40 years old if they were a day... Wasn't too bad as the cows that had been here forever respected the fence and didn't think about trying to get out. Then the bull got old and had to go down the road and I brought in a new young bull I'd held back from our other place in Shiner and he didn't respect the fences at all... belly deep in grass, but he just HAD to break out every chance he got. A few times it was a couple times per day! Then of course one old cow hooked him because I guess she didn't like his "advances" or something and I said to heck with it-- sold the cows, had the fences bulldozed, and burned the brush piles once they dried out. Just baled hay on it for a few years, then we decided to get out of row crops (boll weevil eradication expense had already driven us out of the cotton business-- the $20 bucks an acre they were charging was the [email protected] profit!!!) and we'd been milo on milo for a few years... I'd rotated some soybeans in but they're kind of an iffy crop here... too many bugs, and the seasons/rainfall patterns are wrong... Anyway, with the cost of everything going through the roof, we decided to quit row crops and just go all cattle. Used the last few years of guaranteed farm payments to pay for fencing the entire 88 acres here and haven't looked back. Year like this REALLY makes me glad I did, too! Told Grandma at the time "If you're going to fence the place, now's the time to do it... your "guaranteed" farm program payments over the next few years of the then-existing farm program was going to be about $14,000... so let Uncle Sam pay to fence it!"... She bought the materials, my brother and I fenced the place...

With a good fence, distance isn't too big of an obstacle... even when I was row cropping and constantly in the field, or working on equipment, we ran cattle on our 160 acres at Shiner... main thing is a good farm pond to guarantee they've got water, and good fences...

We cross-fenced the place into quarters and I usually keep one quarter closed off to bale hay on for both farms... the rest of the place here is in cows and of course the whole 160 acres at Shiner, which has been in cows since Dad and Grandpa gave up trying to grow cotton on that sand back in like 58-60... They baled the place for years and sold the hay to the auction barn and basically paid for that farm with it, but it was a different era then... doubt you could do that now!!! When they finally had enough money to get a decent herd started, they quit custom baling and baling/selling small squares and bought some cows...

Our square baler went down the road in about 82... wasn't sorry to see it go, either. I was just getting the age to have to start tossing idiot bricks around, and the fire ants moving into the area was the final straw... before you could lift a bale and set it on the trailer, you'd have fire ants up to your elbows... Grandpa traded the old 532 (IIRC) Ford square baler on a then-new Ford 552 round baler (built by Gehl-- same as their model 1400 IIRC). We've run that ever since... Night and day compared to the old square baler...

Like my BIL says about some of the old stuff they used to use... "If I had to go back to using that, I'd quit..."

Later! OL JR


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rajela said:


> You can get a small disc mower and be a lot better off...just saying..


Maybe, maybe not... depends on what he's willing to spend...

I'd put the durability of the drum mower against any small disk mower any day of the week-- the drums are TOUGH and there's a LOT less to go wrong with them... 6 gears in the gearbox versus like 23 gears in the gearbed of a disk mower, with those running down in the dirt inside a steel case that will EVENTUALLY rust out is what sold me on the drum mower in the first place.

Now that my drum mower is getting close to being worn out (after 25 years of good service with only one trip to the shop for an input gear) and seeing it's one of the larger ones out there... and seeing the prices of new ones, I'm thinking seriously of replacing it with a 9.5 foot NH disk mower when the time comes... new if I can afford it, but more than likely used. I'd just like to be able to get done faster than I can with the 7.2 foot drum mower... and having researched every different kind of disk mower I can find, the NH's look the best to me... I like the modular design from a reliability/serviceability standpoint. I've run the Kuhns and they do a wonderful job, but I'm not crazy about their parts cost nor their parts count, or the common sump gearbed cutterbar...

I'd rather have a used NH than a new Italian or other "off-brand" mower... I see a few independent dealers selling them, but I've never had good experiences with the "off brand" stuff... not unless it was German, (but then I wouldn't consider Claas an "off-brand"). Of course your mileage may vary, but for me, I'd be very leery of jumping in and spending a lot of money on some Italian made or Turkish made off-brand when I could get a good used mainstream brand cheaper, or perhaps put some more money with it and get a new mainstream brand... That's just me though.

As I said... your mileage may vary... Best of luck with whatever choice is made...

Later! OL JR


----------



## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

I bought a Zetor drum last year (185? Iirc). Like others have said, the disk mowers are nice, but the lack of moving parts, the minimum horsepower needed and its ease of blade changes/maint is what sold me. I just wish I could get a 9'.


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

The low hp and few parts is what has me leaning. If I were mowing 50 or more acres a couple of times a year I would go with a bigger disc but for 15 to 20 is hard to beat


----------



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

I believe the seller may be wrong on the model number. I've looked for the cm 120 but all I can find is a cm 135. I did find a party number that is cm120 so maybe that's where they got it. That would put it at about 4 1/2 feet cut


----------

