# Sandbur ... Sandburs ... and Sandburs DAD GUM IT !!!



## blueriver

Okay been reading anything and everything I can about getting control of these ...

1.) Prowl H2O as a pre emergent ... problem is my rye grasses are so tall and thick the prowl won't reach the ground ... so I'm thinking of cutting it early and real short so I can apply Prowl ... my window is closing. Here in SE Oklahoma they say it has to be before April 25th and I need a rain on it ... can irrigate it so I can eliminate that concern

2.) Pastora ... Maximum is 2 applications a year ... sand burs generally come on around June and last on into late September.

Most info I read says if you have sandburs you will always have them ... in other words eradication is impossible...some of my reading indicates poor soil conditions...I always fertilize to the soil test so I'm leaning towards the drought as a blame.

The question is ... has anyone in the region been attacking the sandbur? If so any gain in the battle? If so, what is your program?


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## urednecku

Maybe somebody in your neck of the woods will have some first-hand experience & be by shortly.

I'm about to plant what used to be 5 acres of orange grove...known for growing good crops of 'sandspurs'. I haven't studied that problem, YET, but will be checking with the University of Florida. This branch is about 20 miles from me, and that's what they do is study weeds, grasses, etc. I'd suggest checking with your University to see what/if they have any suggestions that would work* there.*

GOOD LUCK with those demons, I'll be watching this thread too!!


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## blueriver

urednecku said:


> Maybe somebody in your neck of the woods will have some first-hand experience & be by shortly.
> 
> I'm about to plant what used to be 5 acres of orange grove...known for growing good crops of 'sandspurs'. I haven't studied that problem, YET, but will be checking with the University of Florida.This branch is about 20 miles from me, and that's what they do is study weeds, grasses, etc. I'd suggest checking with your University to see what/if they have any suggestions that would work* there.*
> 
> GOOD LUCK with those demons, I'll be watching this thread too!!


Thanks... the Nobles Foundation of Oklahoma has done testing ... problem I believe is they have unlimited $$$ and although there studies are good it appears they are doing just test plots not acres and data results the "year" of testing.

I'm hoping someone in the region has first hand experience with an aggressive program over a few years to report what they have done and what the results have been. (do's and dont's)

If not ... I'm going after them with the best amount of knowledge I have ... not experience ... because I have yet to tackle them.


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## Gearclash

Different region here, but we had an infestation of sand burrs in two edges of one continuous corn on corn field for quite a few years. Haven't seen them for several years now and I wonder if the disappearance coincides with the use of RR corn/herbicide?


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## somedevildawg

I used to have a problem with Sandburs in my Bermuda fields, I use Pastora and it has done a good job of controlling them, I usually like to apply 1.5 oz per acre right at green-up.....just sprayed two days ago.....and another at 1oz 15 days later, I may rotary cut if weeds are too high....Pastora also controls Baha'i and Vasey grass, it has the least yield loss of all the selectives in my experience..


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## mlappin

Always had the belief around here that sandburs were from a lack of lime, don't have a problem with them _here _but instead fight horsenettles which we were also told was a PH problem. Obviously we were told wrong as our PH is ideal but the horsenettles are still a problem, I'm guessing we were told wrong about sandburs as well.


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## blueriver

Gearclash said:


> Different region here, but we had an infestation of sand burrs in two edges of one continuous corn on corn field for quite a few years. Haven't seen them for several years now and I wonder if the disappearance coincides with the use of RR corn/herbicide?


I would believe that plays a roll ... these came on a couple years ago and last falls final cutting they snowballed on the tractor tires.


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## blueriver

somedevildawg said:


> I used to have a problem with Sandburs in my Bermuda fields, I use Pastora and it has done a good job of controlling them, I usually like to apply 1.5 oz per acre right at green-up.....just sprayed two days ago.....and another at 1oz 15 days later, I may rotary cut if weeds are too high....Pastora also controls Baha'i and Vasey grass, it has the least yield loss of all the selectives in my experience..


I have the Pastors on hand and ready ... The rye grass is nice, not really ready to cut rake and bale. However I need the Pastora on so its either take what I can from the rye or wait and bale a full cutting and then when the stubble is short hit the field with Pastora ... I'm afraid of the damage to the greened up Bermuda after the rye is off.


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## blueriver

mlappin said:


> Always had the belief around here that sandburs were from a lack of lime, don't have a problem with them _here _but instead fight horsenettles which we were also told was a PH problem. Obviously we were told wrong as our PH is ideal but the horsenettles are still a problem, I'm guessing we were told wrong about sandburs as well.


I've been told the same as well as Fertilize and Fertilize ... My PH is always in line and I follow soil test ... I quess the fertilize really is making the bur grow!! I still think hot and dry and those puppies grow.


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## Gearclash

> last falls final cutting they snowballed on the tractor tires.


UUUGH!! That reminds me of the time I walked into a patch of the !#$%^&* things as a kid and spent an hour picking them all off.


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## blueriver

Gearclash said:


> UUUGH!! That reminds me of the time I walked into a patch of the !#$%^&* things as a kid and spent an hour picking them all off.


Not to mention if you kneel down on one knee ...


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## somedevildawg

First year I had them, my help and I went into the field (10 acres) and dug em out, fire ants and all.......what a pita


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## blueriver

My neighbor told me yeaterday the only way to eradicate them is to do just as you have ... dig them up.


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## JD3430

Are they like a ping pong ball size thing with spikes on it?


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## blueriver

JD3430 said:


> Are they like a ping pong ball size thing with spikes on it?


They feel that big when they are stuck to you ... they are about the size of a pencil eraser with spikes.


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## urednecku

blueriver said:


> They feel that big when they are stuck to you ... they are about the size of a pencil eraser with spikes.


And on the end of the needle-sharp spike are several barbs, like a fish hook, only a bunch of 'em.


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## urednecku

http://search.ufl.edu/web/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=sandspur


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## Nitram

Grampa had geeses they would eat the plant and the seed that is if you wanted to do it the greeny way!


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## JD3430

urednecku said:


> And on the end of the needle-sharp spike are several barbs, like a fish hook, only a bunch of 'em.


I might want to get a handfull of them for the next time my mother in law visits.....lol


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## scrapiron

blueriver said:


> I have the Pastors on hand and ready ... The rye grass is nice, not really ready to cut rake and bale. However I need the Pastora on so its either take what I can from the rye or wait and bale a full cutting and then when the stubble is short hit the field with Pastora ... I'm afraid of the damage to the greened up Bermuda after the rye is off.


 I have been fighting sandburs for years. Two years ago I stumbled on something that works real good. Roundup !!!
In my Tifton-9 & Russell Bermuda fields, I was playing around trying to figure out how much glyphosate they would tolerate, as I have some bahia & bermuda that can stand a gallon per acre. When I sprayed at 20/24oz per acre it got almost all the weeds, but not the sandburs. After first cutting, as soon as I got the hay rolled & off the field, BEFORE the bermuda greened up, I used 40oz per acre. Killed all the sandburs & didn't hurt the Russell. The t-9 got stunted for about 2/3 weeks by 32oz per acre, but soon out grew it.
If you use glyphosate, do a SMALL test area first !!! My T-85 doesn't like any glyphosate at all. The t-44 that I got rid of could stand 64oz per acre after cutting but before greenup. I have some bahia, don't know what kind, that produces good, heavy hay that I spray with 1/2 gl per acre for weeds & uwanted grasses. It will yellow for about 2wks, then take off & grow good.
Just for information only, the sandbur grass that I have had tested for nutrition was HIGHER than any Bahia I have ever had tested. When it matures though the burs make it a mess & cows won't eat it. Sandbur seed is a hard seed & can remain in the soil for many years before it germinates & grows. You will fight sandburs for many years before you get rid of them.

scrapiron


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## urednecku

> the sandbur grass that I have had tested for nutrition was HIGHER than any Bahia I have ever had tested.


I can just see somebody trying to handle a square bale of that stuff.....


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## scrapiron

urednecku said:


> I can just see somebody trying to handle a square bale of that stuff.....


 Ya got to get it cut & baled BEFORE it heads out !!! lol

scrapiron


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## blueriver

scrapiron said:


> I have been fighting sandburs for years. Two years ago I stumbled on something that works real good. Roundup !!!
> In my Tifton-9 & Russell Bermuda fields, I was playing around trying to figure out how much glyphosate they would tolerate, as I have some bahia & bermuda that can stand a gallon per acre. When I sprayed at 20/24oz per acre it got almost all the weeds, but not the sandburs. After first cutting, as soon as I got the hay rolled & off the field, BEFORE the bermuda greened up, I used 40oz per acre. Killed all the sandburs & didn't hurt the Russell. The t-9 got stunted for about 2/3 weeks by 32oz per acre, but soon out grew it.
> If you use glyphosate, do a SMALL test area first !!! My T-85 doesn't like any glyphosate at all. The t-44 that I got rid of could stand 64oz per acre after cutting but before greenup. I have some bahia, don't know what kind, that produces good, heavy hay that I spray with 1/2 gl per acre for weeds & uwanted grasses. It will yellow for about 2wks, then take off & grow good.
> Just for information only, the sandbur grass that I have had tested for nutrition was HIGHER than any Bahia I have ever had tested. When it matures though the burs make it a mess & cows won't eat it. Sandbur seed is a hard seed & can remain in the soil for many years before it germinates & grows. You will fight sandburs for many years before you get rid of them.
> 
> scrapiron


Thank you ... thats the great thing about the internet ... responses from hands on experience. My bermuda was here when I bought this place so I do not know what variety it is. I will test an area in the field with roundup.


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## blueriver

urednecku said:


> I can just see somebody trying to handle a square bale of that stuff.....


OH MAN ... I am !!! I went ahead and baled it last fall ... am grinding it for hog feed and its like pulling steel wool apart to get it to feed into the grinder mixer ... not to mention what your shirt sleeves and jeans are like when your done.


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## blueriver

scrapiron said:


> Ya got to get it cut & baled BEFORE it heads out !!! lol
> 
> scrapiron


It like heads out overnight (well Kinda)... I was watching to get it cut and it seemed like all of the sudden there the heads where ... I knew it was there but all of a sudden it was there.


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## Nitram

Nitram said:


> Grampa had geeses they would eat the plant and the seed that is if you wanted to do it the greeny way!


My bad was thinking of the plant we affectionately call goat heads. Sand spurs we used to throw at each other between the shoulder blades was the best place to aim!


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## blueriver

scrapiron said:


> I have been fighting sandburs for years. Two years ago I stumbled on something that works real good. Roundup !!!
> In my Tifton-9 & Russell Bermuda fields, I was playing around trying to figure out how much glyphosate they would tolerate, as I have some bahia & bermuda that can stand a gallon per acre. When I sprayed at 20/24oz per acre it got almost all the weeds, but not the sandburs. After first cutting, as soon as I got the hay rolled & off the field, BEFORE the bermuda greened up, I used 40oz per acre. Killed all the sandburs & didn't hurt the Russell. The t-9 got stunted for about 2/3 weeks by 32oz per acre, but soon out grew it.
> If you use glyphosate, do a SMALL test area first !!! My T-85 doesn't like any glyphosate at all. The t-44 that I got rid of could stand 64oz per acre after cutting but before greenup. I have some bahia, don't know what kind, that produces good, heavy hay that I spray with 1/2 gl per acre for weeds & uwanted grasses. It will yellow for about 2wks, then take off & grow good.
> Just for information only, the sandbur grass that I have had tested for nutrition was HIGHER than any Bahia I have ever had tested. When it matures though the burs make it a mess & cows won't eat it. Sandbur seed is a hard seed & can remain in the soil for many years before it germinates & grows. You will fight sandburs for many years before you get rid of them.
> 
> scrapiron


How many gallons per acre of water with the round up?


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## Aurora_Ranch

I am in North East Texas, not exactly where you are but maybe similar. I as well looked at Pastora but way to much money. I got with the Ag Extension Agent here and they had test papers on local hay crops and Surmount with MSO Surfactant had a near 100% control rate on the sand bur and other difficult weeds.

Any way might be worth looking into for you situation.


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## scrapiron

blueriver said:


> How many gallons per acre of water with the round up?


 I have had good luck with 10.2 gal per acre, great kill with 14.3 & 17.0 gl per acre, & kinda good luck with 20.7 gal per acre. IF & ONLY IF I had the water at a ph of 3.5, using ammonium sulfate, BEFORE adding the glyphosate. We have water in the 6-7 ph range from the farm well. Without using ammonium sulfate, glyphosate just does not work for me .

scrapiron


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## darwood

A 5 ounce per acre rate of Plateau will kill them. Just have to be able to tolerate a stunting of the bermuda grass. Usually sets it back about 2 weeks after application. Once you spray it, the sandburs will turn reddish brown.

I had about 5 acres of the damn things, knocked them out with that rate. Usually spray them the end of May first of June, got to catch them before they head out. Problem is not may folks can tell it apart from other grasses before it heads out. If you know where they are from the previous year it makes application a bit easier.

Give it a shot.


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## blueriver

Aurora_Ranch said:


> I am in North East Texas, not exactly where you are but maybe similar. I as well looked at Pastora but way to much money. I got with the Ag Extension Agent here and they had test papers on local hay crops and Surmount with MSO Surfactant had a near 100% control rate on the sand bur and other difficult weeds.
> 
> Any way might be worth looking into for you situation.


We're not that far apart. Was the 100% for that year? Or are you hitting them every year?


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## blueriver

darwood said:


> A 5 ounce per acre rate of Plateau will kill them. Just have to be able to tolerate a stunting of the bermuda grass. Usually sets it back about 2 weeks after application. Once you spray it, the sandburs will turn reddish brown.
> 
> I had about 5 acres of the damn things, knocked them out with that rate. Usually spray them the end of May first of June, got to catch them before they head out. Problem is not may folks can tell it apart from other grasses before it heads out. If you know where they are from the previous year it makes application a bit easier.
> 
> Give it a shot.


Did you hit them just after you cut the bermuda?


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## blueriver

scrapiron said:


> I have had good luck with 10.2 gal per acre, great kill with 14.3 & 17.0 gl per acre, & kinda good luck with 20.7 gal per acre. IF & ONLY IF I had the water at a ph of 3.5, using ammonium sulfate, BEFORE adding the glyphosate. We have water in the 6-7 ph range from the farm well. Without using ammonium sulfate, glyphosate just does not work for me .
> 
> scrapiron


Thanks ... I'm getting alot of advice on this. I am declaring war ... with the good input here I stand a chance.


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## jturbo10

Didn't have any sandbur problems until the drought in 2011. Been using Roundup, Honcho, and now Pastora. Pastora is very expensive but I only use about 1-1.5 oz per acre. I believe the drought was a big factor as the lack of rain allowed the sandburs to have less competition for sun and moisture. Additionally, I think subsoiling, mechanical gopher baiting, and aerating activate dormant seeds from previous sandburs. I'm going to be very aggressive in the few areas I have with some sandburs as I don't want it in my horse hay fields. Any fields or areas with any sandburs are harvested and segregated to different of storage and sold for cattle,donkey,or goat customers.


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## jdhayboy

May try 1oz pastora + pint of roundup per acre, good surfactant and more water the better I feel. My fields are pretty convenient so I usually use 15-20 gallons an acre. I try to get in right behind cutting. Nothing is ever perfect but when Bermuda gets rank and gets a little dead bottom at cutting time usually will leave very little Bermuda leaf on Bermuda after cutting which helps reduce stunting the Bermuda.


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## blueriver

I went ahead with Pastora ... Followed the label to a T ... and sure enough that sh1t works!!

On an established Bermuda field !!!

It not only controlled this yrs burrs but it nailed the Bahia, and some bunch grass ... I really didn't experience a "hit" so to speak ... unfortunately I didn't get a second cut ... not because of the Pastora but because of the lack of rain. Now because of the cycle of the sand burr I'm committed to keep using Pastora


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## somedevildawg

One thing to watch out for...nut grass or nut sedge as its called elsewhere....Pastora has no effect on nutgrass....I've been using Pastora for three or four years now, a great product, but nutgrass has become a problem although the other weeds and sandbur has been eliminated.....thnk I may use cadre this year


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## heatelec

Live in Central Texas & have horrible sandburs.

Have fertilized, limed, all the BS.

Best luck I have had is Prowl H2O first week of March, Pastora when I fertilize in mid April, then Pastora with herbicides immedialty after cuttings and hay gather.

Took several years and alot of money to get them under control and manageable.

Bad news is I thought I had them under control and let 1 pasture miss spraying last year and I am back at square one with it.

You have to stay on top of them once you get them under control or you get to start over.

Found reduced them when I started brushing my tires off when I went from pasture to pasture, all I was doing is planting them in other pastures.


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## somedevildawg

heatelec said:


> Live in Central Texas & have horrible sandburs.
> Have fertilized, limed, all the BS.
> Best luck I have had is Prowl H2O first week of March, Pastora when I fertilize in mid April, then Pastora with herbicides immedialty after cuttings and hay gather.
> 
> Took several years and alot of money to get them under control and manageable.
> 
> Bad news is I thought I had them under control and let 1 pasture miss spraying last year and I am back at square one with it.
> 
> You have to stay on top of them once you get them under control or you get to start over.
> 
> Found reduced them when I started brushing my tires off when I went from pasture to pasture, all I was doing is planting them in other pastures.


Welcome to haytalk heatelec....


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