# MSMA in Coastal Bermuda



## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Have vassey and crabgrass in coastal bermuda. It was cut for first time two weeks ago tomorrow. Vassey and crabgrass begin to show up following that mowing. I am not comfortable the limited info on amount to use. It reads from 2.66 quotes per acres to 6 quarts per acres if dense, might have read if real dense. Any suggestions?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

1qt pa


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

somedevildawg said:


> 1qt pa


Thank you. Was not comfortable with amount on label.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It ain't gonna get the crabgrass completely, will stunt it a bit.....will smoke the Vasey


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Try Panoramic. 8 ounces acre should get vassey and crab grass. I know for a fact it will get the crab grass. We didn't have vassey in the field we sprayed but it did smoke the Johnson grass.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Troy Farmer said:


> Try Panoramic. 8 ounces acre should get vassey and crab grass. I know for a fact it will get the crab grass. We didn't have vassey in the field we sprayed but it did smoke the Johnson grass.


It's a good herbicide if you can stand the damage it causes to the BG.....it will really clean up a field.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Troy Farmer said:


> Try Panoramic. 8 ounces acre should get vassey and crab grass. I know for a fact it will get the crab grass. We didn't have vassey in the field we sprayed but it did smoke the Johnson grass.


8 ounces is way to much. It'll burn it back till next year at that rate. I'd go with 4. 4 will still burn it


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I must apologize. I wasn't trying to give bad advice. Our fields were in so weed infested it didn't matter about another cut and we waited until late in the season to treat.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

What kind of damage with Panoramic do to Coastal Bermuda?

Is a second application of MSMA needed for vassey? I spot sprayed where it was in my field and some of it died and some tolerated it right well. Burnt the edges of the leaves but it came back.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Palmettokat said:


> What kind of damage with Panoramic do to Coastal Bermuda?
> 
> Is a second application of MSMA needed for vassey? I spot sprayed where it was in my field and some of it died and some tolerated it right well. Burnt the edges of the leaves but it came back.


Significant
But tolerable if not anticipating the hay.....
No, I would ? application rate


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I feel your pain Palmetto. I've got to battle vassey and dallis grass in one of my newly sprigged fields. Thinking about going the MSMA route since I wont be taking a cutting from this particular field this year.

The Panoramic or Impose wont kill the Bermuda but will stunt it. You need to follow with a good dose of N&K.

I've got to come up with a spray plan for next year. I've gone from 6 acres to almost 40 to care for.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I had one of those plans.....have one every year come to think of it, but Mother Nature always deals her hand and my plans become reactions at best  I'd REALLY love it if a plan came together.....but we'll take what we can get I suppose.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Had a neighbor object to MSMA in feed stock (hay/grazing) pastures. Reading up on the contents mfgr. specifies that there is no problem as the potential problem agent (Arsenic) is absorbed into the soil.

Makes you wonder, if it kills pesky weeds, how does it do it if it's locked in the soil, not absorbed by the plant?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Mark

Do you check for personal messages very regular? I sent you a PM on another forum several days ago.

Thanks,Jim


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

The field was cut last Saturday and I went to spot spray yesterday (Thursday) with roundup with the cut and got a surprise...the vast majority of the vassey looked to taken a heavy hit. When the field was cut it looked very green when cut but sure had not begin to green up and what was there look mostly dead.

Patience, patience, patience.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Texasmark said:


> Had a neighbor object to MSMA in feed stock (hay/grazing) pastures. Reading up on the contents mfgr. specifies that there is no problem as the potential problem agent (Arsenic) is absorbed into the soil.
> 
> Makes you wonder, if it kills pesky weeds, how does it do it if it's locked in the soil, not absorbed by the plant?


It only controls what is applied to the surface of the plant, to my knowledge, it doesn't have any pre emergent components.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> It only controls what is applied to the surface of the plant, to my knowledge, it doesn't have any pre emergent components.


It's not that, it's "poison" and you are feeding it to your cows, unless you believe the mfgrs. posted "incorporated into the soil" explanation. I'd like to use it, and have 2.5 gallons currently, as it has a nice list of things it hits and things it misses but if my customer feels as he does then he won't buy my hay, and if in fact it is a problem, I don't want him to feed it. I use it on non-feed stocks as it is.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Texasmark said:


> It's not that, it's "poison" and you are feeding it to your cows, unless you believe the mfgrs. posted "incorporated into the soil" explanation. I'd like to use it, and have 2.5 gallons currently, as it has a nice list of things it hits and things it misses but if my customer feels as he does then he won't buy my hay, and if in fact it is a problem, I don't want him to feed it. I use it on non-feed stocks as it is.


Not so sure about that Mark......it's been used for years by just about every cattleman in the south, I've never heard of a problem directly associated with it, however, if my customer feels it's a problem and wouldn't buy my hay, I certainly wouldn't use it


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I should add that MSMA is not labeled any longer for use on hayfields, one has to carefully consider using it vs what you are trying to eradicate. It's a very good herbicide for Bermuda grass.....


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

Like Dawg says, it isn't labeled for use on hayfields. However, as to the "poison" argument, I have never once seen any documentation to support it. Not that I am inclined to believe large chemical companies either, but whenever this particular chemical and usage has come up for discussion, the poison line shows up, but I have never seen an instance of a situation that proved it.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Not so sure about that Mark......it's been used for years by just about every cattleman in the south, I've never heard of a problem directly associated with it, however, if my customer feels it's a problem and wouldn't buy my hay, I certainly wouldn't use it


Quite correct...

Arsenic is one of those things that have been turned into "boogeymen" in recent years. Yes, in large quantities it's highly toxic. In the Middle Ages, women used to take arsenic to keep their skin "lily white". Of course if they took too much it could kill them, and over the long term frequent use could have a lot of bad health effects... but it was a common practice and done "successfully" for centuries.

When you talk about it being applied to plants, you're talking about such an infinitesimally small amount and it's spread out over such a large area (and so much tonnage of forage) that if it was a problem, it would be on the label not to apply to pasture and hay fields. By the time the crop is ready to cut, time should have also sent most of it out of the crop plants and back into the soil, where indeed it's "tied up" and deactivated, just like Roundup...

Later! OL J R


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Quite correct...
> 
> , just like Roundup...
> 
> ...


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

Does anybody here know the effect that MSMA has on clover, etc? Don't see that on the label, was wondering what it would do to clover in a field of bermudagrass?


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

reede said:


> Does anybody here know the effect that MSMA has on clover, etc? Don't see that on the label, was wondering what it would do to clover in a field of bermudagrass?


Kill it. It will pretty much kill everything but Bermuda.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

reede said:


> Like Dawg says, it isn't labeled for use on hayfields. However, as to the "poison" argument, I have never once seen any documentation to support it. Not that I am inclined to believe large chemical companies either, but whenever this particular chemical and usage has come up for discussion, the poison line shows up, but I have never seen an instance of a situation that proved it.


Like a lot of stuff out there to which we are exposed; CYA, biased hype, unsupported conjecture, mob culture...everybody else feels that way why shouldn't I type thing. If it were for my cows I wouldn't worry either, but it's not soooooo.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Ray 54 said:


> luke strawwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Quite correct...
> ...


Umm kay I been on the road for several days straight and so I'm probably missing something obvious...

Roundup does in fact go inert the instant it hits the soil-- it gets tied up to the soil colloids and is rendered inactive. That is why Roundup ONLY has activity when applied to green growing foliage-- if it washes off from rain too soon after application or if most of it "misses" the plant due to sprayer setup errors, it has *ZERO* soil activity (not taken up by the roots, again, because it is inactivated upon soil contact-- the molecules are tied up to the soil particles).

MSMA works the same way... the arsenicals are tied up on contact with soil particles. We used to spray DSMA and MSMA over the top in cotton for YEARS when I was growing up to take out late season barnyardgrass and crabgrass, or at least burn the stuff enough and set it back so it didn't compete and get to be too much of a mess before picking time... MSMA and a good surfactant in a directed spray (too much over the top, particularly of MSMA, would burn the ever lovin' crap out of cotton, but if you banded it over the middles and kept most of it off the cotton, you could apply a pretty "hot" dose of it without hurting the crop) would do a pretty good number taking out purple nutsedge too...

Later! OL J R


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

luke strawwalker said:


> Umm kay I been on the road for several days straight and so I'm probably missing something obvious...
> 
> Roundup does in fact go inert the instant it hits the soil-- it gets tied up to the soil colloids and is rendered inactive. That is why Roundup ONLY has activity when applied to green growing foliage-- if it washes off from rain too soon after application or if most of it "misses" the plant due to sprayer setup errors, it has *ZERO* soil activity (not taken up by the roots, again, because it is inactivated upon soil contact-- the molecules are tied up to the soil particles).
> 
> ...


OT: You near the brewery? Shiner Bock....a winner! Well it was part of the program before I quit it....Dr. scared me away with a #2 Diabetes threat. I can do without both.


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