# Inputs going up and so is the price of my hay



## MorganT69 (May 17, 2010)

Inputs going up and so is the price of my hay. I just got back from getting (today's) price on fertilizer and at today's cost, my inputs are at $66.26 per acre on fertilizer. That is a 60-30-30 mix with 10# of sulfer per acre. I grow Vaughn and Wrangler Bermuda grasses and they usually produce about 4 to 5 round rolls per acre. I dont think the customers are going to like the hay prices this year!!!!!!!! Whats your prices going to do this year???


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

It will get much worse if corn hits $7/bushel again. Of course we all know even if corn was to drop to $3/bushel in 2013 it will take years for inputs to come down.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm hoping my price will go up, but I have to be competitive with the market price in my area. I'd love to charge $20 per small bale as the price of fertilizer has gone up, but I wouldn't sell much for that price.


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

Morgan my cost per acre could easily be higher than that if I used what my soil sample recomends. I just finished side dressing my oats and 30-0-0 cost $395/ton. The only saving grace we have is that we are able to apply most of our nitrogen during the summer in liquid form and save a little. I will have have $80-$85 an acre in fertilize for my oats. As far as hay prices there is a shortage here this year for bermuda grass hay both in rounds and squares due to so much being shipped to Texas. This coming year I am afraid is going to be worse due to the increase in prices of peanuts. There are lots of acres of hay being converted to peanuts. This is will take this land out of hay for 2 years giving us that have stuck it out a small window possibly to make a little profit finally.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I worry about further substantial input increases(basically fertilizer and fuel).....I already charge a premium for Timothy/Orchard small squares and feel that further price hikes will hurt my sales. I intend to grow Alfalfa for the first time this spring to diversify some......probably RR alfalfa. I feel like in my area quality hay has reached its price ceiling......very few dairies around anymore here.

Regards, Mike


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

MorganT69 said:


> Inputs going up and so is the price of my hay. I just got back from getting (today's) price on fertilizer and at today's cost, my inputs are at $66.26 per acre on fertilizer. That is a 60-30-30 mix with 10# of sulfer per acre. I grow Vaughn and Wrangler Bermuda grasses and they usually produce about 4 to 5 round rolls per acre. I dont think the customers are going to like the hay prices this year!!!!!!!! Whats your prices going to do this year???


Morgan, is this per cutting, or is that your annual input. Just curious because mine is much higher for the year. I don't see how producers in our area can avoid increasing the prices this year. I hate to raise our prices, but it's gotta happen. Sadly though, lot's of folks took advantage of the situation in TX last year, and I don't see how they'll get repeat business from those folks if they raise prices even more. Especially the ones that put hardly a thing into their patches last year. I feel confident most our folks from TX will return to us if they need hay, simply because we treated them fairly and didn't take 'em to the cleaners. I might be wrong, but I just don't see the dire need this coming season from next door. As such, we're still concentrating on making a quality product, not volume. I haven't ordered up yet this year, but will be very soon. I cringe to think of what the prices are gonna be.
Best of luck in this coming season!
Steve


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

In this part of Texas, we are getting a fair amount of rain, but that doesn't apply to the rest of the State. If it keeps up we should have enough ground moisture to get out a couple of cuttings before the drought returns. Unfortunately, around me the soil depth is only 3-4' before the clay layer so it can dry out pretty fast. I don't see the prices changing much but I suspect the demand will be lower. There has already been a significant livestock selloff, a continuing drought will just make it worse. Restocking costs will slow demand recovery as well.

With the NE refinery shutdowns and demand from Europe diesel will stay high and will likely go higher. I've seen forecasts of $4-$5 diesel possible so I'll probably fill my tanks this month. I don't even try to guess on fertilizer, but with decent ground moisture I'll probably use liquid. That will save a little.


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## MorganT69 (May 17, 2010)

dubltrubl said:


> Morgan, is this per cutting, or is that your annual input. Just curious because mine is much higher for the year. I don't see how producers in our area can avoid increasing the prices this year. I hate to raise our prices, but it's gotta happen. Sadly though, lot's of folks took advantage of the situation in TX last year, and I don't see how they'll get repeat business from those folks if they raise prices even more. Especially the ones that put hardly a thing into their patches last year. I feel confident most our folks from TX will return to us if they need hay, simply because we treated them fairly and didn't take 'em to the cleaners. I might be wrong, but I just don't see the dire need this coming season from next door. As such, we're still concentrating on making a quality product, not volume. I haven't ordered up yet this year, but will be very soon. I cringe to think of what the prices are gonna be.
> Best of luck in this coming season!
> Steve


That is per acre per cutting. I grow quality Bermuda grass for Horse owners around here, they are the ones that will pay premium for Hay. I sold all my hay this past year down to Texas also, he paid the same price as the locals pay, I dont believe in gouging a man when he is down and the ones that did should be ashamed of themselves. What comes around goes around..


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

This Farm Journal article kind of follows along with high costs of inputs and managing such.

The Data Dilemma | Farm Journal Magazine

Regards, Mike


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

Here in N. Texas we were finally down graded from drought conditions. I have had about 10" of rain in the last several months and the last rain was 6" in about 12 hrs. running my pools over the spillway and everything is looking up for spring planting.

I bought my hay last spring at $40 delivered for 4x6 premium rolls. About 2 weeks later it started to go up and a poor quality bale of the same size now brings $100 and you pick up if you can find it.

So I got my back field all plowed up, have my fert, seed, and diesel tanks full. Just ordered a new drum cutter and rake for $4700 delivered which is tolerable. Checked rolling prices and was quoted $12 per. I can live with that.

Mark


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

These input cost have us worried also. Not sure how much more the horse industry can pay for hay. Here in Maryland we have a wonderful market, but they too are having problems cash flowing.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*Not sure how much more the horse industry can pay for hay*
That has always been the question HERE. The recreational horse owners are not real bad, *BUT* the people in the Horse Business HERE have a dubious reputation for financial responsibility.
They will attempt to get us to sell hay at a loss so they can clear a small fortune.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> the people in the Horse Business HERE have a dubious reputation for financial responsibility.
> They will attempt to get us to sell hay at a loss so they can clear a small fortune.


Hmmmmmm.....is not Mike120 "one of those" in the horse business in Texas ;0).

Regards, Mike


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

What I find very interesting in the horse owner arena is what the horses get fed. Not what the animal necessarily needs and can digest, but what the owner thinks the horse has to have.

Around here bermuda is the grass of choice for them, both pasture and hay, and the hay has to be pristeen green, absolutely weed free or free of any other kind of grass and must smell as if it were just cut regardless of the time of year and how long it has been stored in a light free barn to preserve the green. These seem to be the same folks that have the vet out a couple of times a month....vets obviously love them to the point that a local vet built a new hospital and had a total building built for Equine servicing with wood lined stalls with wood chip floor linings and a rotary exercise pen and all the goodies.....gotta be making a fortune off that.....but, he is just providing a service for his "customers". Ha!

I have a lot of neighbors that have a couple of horses roaming with their cows, eat native grasses/weeds and enjoy the sudan x sorghum in the hay rings that the cows are eating. Have never seen a vet at one of these farms. One neighbor has 2 horses that have been there at least 20 years and the pasture has never been fertilized, mowed, or anything. It is overgrown with goldenrod which sucks all the nutrients out of the soil. His horses go out there and find something to eat. In the winter he will have a roll or two of hay delivered. Never saw one down and never saw the vet out.

So.......who is fooling whom or er ah whoom....."whoom....elephant release of methane gas". Grin.

So you say it's their money and their horse. True and after several years of trying to kiss their south end when they were headed north, I just said pfffffffft on it and stuck with feeding cows.

Mark


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes I thought of Mike120 but did not want to make an exception. Besides he is a hay grower with horses. But seeing he does have horses I maight not want to buy hay with out counting the bales and weighing the load.









I just figured up my fertilizer and herbicide cost for 2012 so far. Comes to $330/acre. Might as well be raising cotton!

I do not know how someone can raise a crop on $12,000/A land let alone on some of this stuff that has sold in the $28,000 range, in the Midwest. 
I would suspect at least some of those $28,000 prices is based on finding oil &/or gas under it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Yes I thought of Mike120 but did not want to make an exception. Besides he is a hay grower with horses. But seeing he does have horses I maight not want to buy hay with out counting the bales and weighing the load.


Good One Wilson!!


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> I just figured up my fertilizer and herbicide cost for 2012 so far. Comes to $330/acre. Might as well be raising cotton!
> 
> I do not know how someone can raise a crop on $12,000/A land let alone on some of this stuff that has sold in the $28,000 range, in the Midwest.
> I would suspect at least some of those $28,000 prices is based on finding oil &/or gas under it.


That amount is pretty much in line with my cost HayWilson. Last year was actually a bit higher, but then again, I had some catching up to do and the dry weather played into it some. 
I have to agree on land costs also. To my mind, anytime land cost gets over about $3500/ac. you ain't gonna be able to get a payback on it by farming it.
Steve


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Thanks Mike, for defending me against the onslaught of character assassination and to Mr. Wilson for granting me a partial exception. Actually, I am just a poor grass farmer. Some grass is baled and some is harvested with four-leg combines. It's my daughter that's in the horse business and with that, I'm just the accountant, banker, and resident "hay fairy" that magically fills the barn with hay.

I have to agree with Mr. Wilson's view that "*people in the Horse Business HERE have a dubious reputation for financial responsibility*." Unfortunately, just about all of them that I have known fit that description. Most of it stems from the fact that they are incapable of viewing their animals as livestock. To them, they are pets and in too many cases, their customers are also their friends who think the same way. That makes it very hard to make, what I consider, rational business decisions. Although, I have to exert a bit of influence on some business decisions...She is getting better.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Mike 120 says, "Thanks Mike, for defending me against the onslaught of character assassination"..... you"ll have to pardon me, I got caught up in Wilsons humor.

and Mike120 went on to say, "It's my daughter that's in the horse business and with that, I'm just the accountant, banker, and resident "hay fairy" that magically fills the barn with hay."..........ah yes, the things we will do for our children are unending...









Regards, Mike


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## MorganT69 (May 17, 2010)

I sell Bermuda grass hay in a 4x5 roll, cattle people will not pay $50.00 up for good quality hay, most around here dont care what the hay is as long as its cheap when it comes to cattle, sheep, goats, the list goes on. Horse people on the other hand will pay a premium for good quality hay, therefore I market my hay toward the people who will pay, I have nothing against growing hay that has never been fertilized, never had lime put on it, never sprayed for weeds, its cheap because all you have to do is go out and cut it, the problem I have is that all my equipment is pricey and a small tractor and a bush hog would have been alot cheaper if that is all I was gonna do. What it boils down to is MONEY, who has it and who is willing to part with it in my direction and around here that is HORSE Folks, they love there horses and I LOVE there money. LOL


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Horse Owners.

Mike120 has a good point, *To them, they ( the animals ) are pets *These are usually the a nice lady with one or two critters that spend more time standing around eating than providing transportation and sport for the owners.

Still Horse owners remind me of the man standing with one foot in boiling water and the other in a ice bath, on average he is comfortable. 
There are a few really great people who own horses, and a few that are at best difficult.
Trouble is the sorry ones foul the water for the others. 
Still the only bad checks I have had has been from people with three or more horses.

_I have a long story about a Bohemian and a Bell County Hay Man and believing and the Bohemian getting eaten by an East Texas Alligator._

Now go to Kentucky and there you will find some real big operators who, though notional, have a better understanding of the use of forages. 
One uses Timothy, not straw or wood products, for bedding. The horses will nibble on their bedding until it becomes soiled. He pulls the soiled hay out and feeds it to his cattle. The cattle do well on the *"enriched"* hay. He also runs one stocker with the stallion and 5 stockers in with the mares. The cattle graze down the tall grass that the horses ignore. Cuts out the mosint of horse paddocks to keep it neet appearing.

Others in Kentucky pay good money for golden Ohio wheat straw to use for bedding, from Creech. Then when it is truly nasty hire Creech to come in and remove the mess, for a price. Creech then hauls the straw to his facility, bales it up into 4 X 4 X 8 ft bales and sells, that product, to the mushroom growers in Pennsylvania. ( Gets paid three times for the same straw.! )

Dairies can be notional also. Fellow I know raises alfalfa for dairies. Some want hay that grades Supreme, while others want hay that grades Good. It is all according to what their nutritionist figures will make the most milk for the least cost. At least there is some logic behind their notional ways.

*Mike120 and others in SE Texas, the TFGC is cranked up again and they are talking about having regional forage meetings. Maybe around Halletttsville? *

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## Hand&Hand Farms (Feb 5, 2011)

We sold our hay to Texas for the same price as we sell locally and was able to sleep at night. May have to go up some if fuel goes up, well wait and see. I hope it will be a good year for all that sell hay and all that buy hay. We are just trying to get by as best we can. Every year people buy hay from somewhere and we just hope to be able to load trucks. Oh, trying to get a net wrap baler this year maybe.


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## Canderson012 (Jan 17, 2012)

Last year I charged $45 per round bale and had many customers due to the low price, the hay was unfertilized but clean and green. Prices were fairly high due to the drought, I can't predict how this summer will be but I have already ordered a half ton of lime per acre and have to spray for broadleaf weeds and plan to put out nitrogen. At this rate, I will have to charge at least $50 a bale, maybe $55.


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

I want to build an Index for pricing alfalfa hay based on the price of corn and soybeans. In most cases those are the alternative crops for our ground and simply pricing it like we always have or just by our input costs might result in lower profit on alfalfa compared to corn and soybeans.

Add to that the extra work involved in hay and risk from weather the price of hay should be substantially higher than what we've typically charged in the past. Unfortunately we as hay producers have shot ourselves in the foot by relying on auction markets and the good old "price per bale" marketing.

Hay prices should/,must go up but I doubt they will go to where they need to go.

Jim


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Lazy J said:


> Hay prices should/,must go up but I doubt they will go to where they need to go.
> 
> Jim


I've been telling buyers that all year, they have to buy hay acres just like the grain markets are buying corn/bean acres. I know this to be true as I'm taking some out myself this spring and it's going to corn.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've been telling my hay customers that quality hay producers in Illinois/Missouri HAVE to make the same profit as corn/beans otherwise they will simply put their ground into row crops. That's what I'm doing!

I don't mind working hard; I do mind working for free! I recently took 7 round bales to an auction to see how they would sell. The bales were first cutting orchard grass weighing 990 lbs each. CP was 10.5%, no weeds, no mold, net wrapped, stored inside. Fetched $70/bale; minus 12% commission. I was more than a little disappointed.

More acres going into grain this year.

Ralph


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, I sure wish I could sell mine for $70. Did sell some last year for that but not now. There are so many bales out there for $ 25-30 a bale,and everybody knows the price. Last year I took out 400 acres and put in corn and beans. Best move I ever made. I was having trouble with volunteer Italian Ryegrass that had overrun half of my hay acres. Looking at my wheat 2 weeks ago before spraying, I could not find a single sprig so cropping does help cleanup fields.. If things don't get better this year, it will all come out. I can park my hay equipment until times get better. We had one of the best crop years here that I can remember, hence the flood of hay. I just wish that people would learn what quality hay is and costs and that producers knew how to price accordingly. End of Rant. Gone to get ice cream.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Lazy J said:


> I want to build an Index for pricing alfalfa hay based on the price of corn and soybeans. In most cases those are the alternative crops for our ground and simply pricing it like we always have or just by our input costs might result in lower profit on alfalfa compared to corn and soybeans.
> 
> Add to that the extra work involved in hay and risk from weather the price of hay should be substantially higher than what we've typically charged in the past. Unfortunately we as hay producers have shot ourselves in the foot by relying on auction markets and the good old "price per bale" marketing.
> 
> ...


Already did that. On my own ground, to compete with corn at current price levels and average corn yields, my average alfalfa yield of 5 ton per acre will need to bring $210 per ton to compete. This 160 bu. corn ground average at $6/bushel. I do, however have several acres of marginal ground that I can make more profit with 3.5 ton/acre at $150/ton over an average corn yield at $6.00. Long story short, this year looks like the lowest quality alfalfa I produce will start at $175/ton and go up from there on a quality basis. Going to be at $260/ton plus on all dairy quality.


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