# Bottom land grass



## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

Ok, I have 30 acres of bottom land that never dries out. Not that it stands in water its just down in the bottoms not far from the river surrounded by old growth oaks. So it has moisture year round. Now the ? what can I plant that will produce good yields make horse hay as I square everything and grow in moist ground? Now I am in South Arkansas so need something that will grow here.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Oats in the winter will do really well..


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

will reed canary grass grow there?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hayman1 said:


> will reed canary grass grow there?


If it will, will Arkansas buyers consider it horse hay? I know HERE it's not.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Brome is used in waterways here and enjoyed by many equine consumers


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Sounds like it doesn't drain very well. Or the water table is really high. Two options come to mind.

1) My first reaction was.......rice. Since rice is grown in your area, you might cut a deal with a rice producer to trade equivalent acreage for ground that is better suited.

2) You might have to install field tile to get sufficient drainage if you really want to use this ground for hay.

Ralph


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

If the ground just stays moist and not mushy wet I'm thinking that maybe MaxQ fescue would do well.....you should get a heavy first cut and with moisture second cut should do well and maybe get a third cut also. Your probably too far south for orchard grass. Would hybrid Bermuda grass grow on that type of ground?


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## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

Its not mushy, just damp. I thought of reed canary but here not horse hay. And I thought of brome I think people here would like it. I am afraid of Bermuda if I cant get that 30 day cut cycle. I need something that if I get a heavy rain and go 40 days or so it want be ruined.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

yarnammurt said:


> Its not mushy, just damp. I thought of reed canary but here not horse hay. And I thought of brome I think people here would like it. I am afraid of Bermuda if I cant get that 30 day cut cycle. I need something that if I get a heavy rain and go 40 days or so it want be ruined.


 I'm thinking then that MaxQ might be your ticket. First cut needs to be cut before it gets too mature but the later cuttings don't head out so you don't have to be on a real strict cutting schedule as the quality on the later cuttings will hold in the field for a while. It makes nice horse hay as well.....the only problem is that when some people hear the name fescue they get turned off and won't wait for you to explain that it is has no harmful endophyte. I wish Pennington would make a little pamphlet explaining the benefits of the friendly endophyte like they do on their website that I could had out to educate people. This was my first year growing MaxQ and so far I am very pleased.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

one thing to consider on the MaxQ-don't fertilize it early but trim it with your biggest rotary cutter. I do a field here that way with og and KY31. Trim 25th april and 15 may,(I use a bh3210 set with the side rails about 1.5" off a hard surface) then immediately fertilize with complete based on soil test. Get beautiful stuff with no seed head and not that much pressure on cutting. Cut it this year on 6/30 and last year about 7/14. Then you could topdress with 50#N after first cutting and with the moisture you have, you should have a winning combo.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Why don't you try a small area of TImothy.....not expensive seed. Get a 25 pound bag and see what happens next year. If it stays moist my guess is that you will for sure get one cutting off of it. Great horse hay and I would bet you would be the only one in the Natural State to produce it. Good yields. Timothy can take a lot more heat if it is getting plenty of moisture.....and it won't be "that" hot yet in the spring.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Why don't you try a small area of TImothy.....not expensive seed. Get a 25 pound bag and see what happens next year. If it stays moist my guess is that you will for sure get one cutting off of it. Great horse hay and I would bet you would be the only one in the Natural State to produce it. Good yields. Timothy can take a lot more heat if it is getting plenty of moisture.....and it won't be "that" hot yet in the spring.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 I really, really like this idea. In fact timothy was the first thing that came to mind on that kind of ground but wasn't sure how it would do in Arkansas. I would think though if you plant this fall you would get a heavy first cut. I'm trying something new since timothy doesn't regrow for a second cut very well......killing the timothy after first cut and double cropping soybeans. Timothy will bring a premium for horse hay.


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## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

I didn't know I could plant Timothy in the fall. Would I just round-up whats there now and plant early Oct? And what would I do for a second cut or for the rest of the summer? I am cutting what's there now so I could kill it all. I will put in around 2000lbs/a of the Ash I have over the rest of the summer. I just need to figure out the right combination for a good hay crop.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I like the brome or maxQ way more than the timothy on wet ground. If it's wet enough to make finding a dry soil window difficult, you'll have to worry about the timothy getting really old and stemmy if forced to wait too long. It's quality curve is steeper than the other two. Brome and fescue will make nicer hay when over mature. (Of course some timothy buyers don't care as long as it's timothy.) In addition, I'd personally want a stand of something on that type of soil that I might not ever have too reseed again. If it's difficult to make the hay, it's often also difficult to seed. Once I had a good sod in place I'd hate to think that I only had a few more years of the timothy's life expectancy until I was back to square one of having to establish a new stand.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

To clarify, I would have no problem adding timothy to a mix for these conditions. If for 4-10 years even a few timothy heads show up in the bales it would almost surely improve the sale price and/or marketability of the hay. I just wouldn't want to count on it, thus my preference of one of the more indestructible grasses solo or as the majority of a mix containing some timothy.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

yarnammurt said:


> I didn't know I could plant Timothy in the fall. Would I just round-up whats there now and plant early Oct? And what would I do for a second cut or for the rest of the summer? I am cutting what's there now so I could kill it all. I will put in around 2000lbs/a of the Ash I have over the rest of the summer. I just need to figure out the right combination for a good hay crop.


Fall is the best time to plant Timothy in the southern reaches.....Spring is typically unsuccessful in the southern reaches...

You could experiment a bit and plant some MaxQ with part of your Timothy and some Brome with some Timothy and see which works out the best.

It would be a interesting experiment.....especially considering your part of the country.

Since you stated that your soil is damp and not "mushy" I believe you could be successful with this Timothy experiment....

Regards, Mike


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## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

I want to add crimson clover to what ever I plant. I have a market for good clover mix.


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## eam77 (Aug 4, 2013)

South Arkansas? You should get in contact with the Hope (Arkansas) UofA research station people. Also, your county agent might be a good source--- . I have a similar field as you describe, which is next to the Caddo River. WET, WET, WET. But, similar fields up and down the river are doing well sodded up in coastal, or possibly other hybrids, bermuda grass.

I don't think that such land is any good for early hay. Last year, I had ryegrass, but worthless for hay as I could not cut it before it was well seeded out.

Crimson clover? I don't think that it will work at all on low, wet ground. Crimson clover will have to be cut in early May---it is very hard to find a weather window, even on higher, dryer ground. Nearly impossible on low, wet ground. (You can get about two weeks advantage with Red Clover -Kenland is the only one I ever used).

I am thinking about how to dry up my wet land some by ground work to keep surface water run off from the overlooking hill off the bottom (technically, it may be a "bench"). I have some Pennington Cheyenne II bermuda seed on hand to try, but the field is still too wet to plant---- this is the third week in July!!!!!!! What a quandry--- $100 per acre seed cost, and I have to plant it now-- really too late--- or wait till next year. This has been one wet/cold spring.


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## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

I could have cut mine over a month ago but had other better hay to cut. This field was not cut last year so it is over run with deer tongue. Up until last year it was a Bahia/fescue hay field. I guess I have not made my self clear its wet but not you cant get in it wet. It just stays damp year round.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

If it was Bahia / Fescue last year then it should still be bahia / fescue. I would get out the spray rig first.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

yarnammurt said:


> I didn't know I could plant Timothy in the fall. Would I just round-up whats there now and plant early Oct? And what would I do for a second cut or for the rest of the summer? I am cutting what's there now so I could kill it all. I will put in around 2000lbs/a of the Ash I have over the rest of the summer. I just need to figure out the right combination for a good hay crop.


 The best thing regardless what you plant will be to spray roundup after the existing grass/weeds gets some active growth and let it kill down. Late September into early October would probably be a good time to plant either timothy or MaxQ. If you go with the timothy it would probably be a short lived perennial with a heavy first cut.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

If you could harvest the reed canary early most folks wouldn't know it is what it is. The thing that people don't like about reed canary is most of it is harvested when it is mature and in sticks. Early cut reed canary is as nice as any grass.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

barnrope said:


> If you could harvest the reed canary early most folks wouldn't know it is what it is. The thing that people don't like about reed canary is most of it is harvested when it is mature and in sticks. Early cut reed canary is as nice as any grass.


As long as it's a modern, low-alkaloid variety.


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## astropilot (Jun 3, 2008)

The one problem is the seed price. I have just priced Reed Canary at $10-13 a pound. Ouch! It seems the further north the cheaper the seed. I still say that pound for pound Timothy is the most economical seed per pound. Climax $103 per 50#, and Clair $125 per 50# at a rate of 20lbs per acre. The return is about $5.00 per bale.


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