# Help on figuring out how much I can tow!!!!



## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I have a 2008 dodge 2500 4x4 diesel. With the configuration of my truck it says that I can tow 12,900lbs with a gcwr of 20,000lbs. My trailer is rated for 14,000lbs minus the 5500lbs its weighs, so it says it's rated to carry 8500lbs of hay. I haul 240 bales on my trailer that average 55lbs so that's 13,200lbs plus the weight of the trailer 5500lbs so total truck, trailer and load is roughly 25,800lbs. So I have been roughly 5800lbs over on what my truck is rated for and, 4700lbs over what my trailer is rated for. Now my question is if my truck is tagged insured for 26,000lbs or more am I legal or am I in violation since I am over my weight ratings?? Short and simple does the law go by what your truck is rated for or what you truck is tagged and insured for? 
I am located in Tennessee if it helps.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Strap it down good and haul ass.......beg for forgiveness. Both......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nate926 said:


> I have a 2008 dodge 2500 4x4 diesel. With the configuration of my truck it says that I can tow 12,900lbs with a gcwr of 20,000lbs. My trailer is rated for 14,000lbs minus the 5500lbs its weighs, so it says it's rated to carry 8500lbs of hay. I haul 240 bales on my trailer that average 55lbs so that's 13,200lbs plus the weight of the trailer 5500lbs so total truck, trailer and load is roughly 25,800lbs. So I have been roughly 5800lbs over on what my truck is rated for and, 4700lbs over what my trailer is rated for. Now my question is if my truck is tagged insured for 26,000lbs or more am I legal or am I in violation since I am over my weight ratings?? Short and simple does the law go by what your truck is rated for or what you truck is tagged and insured for?
> I am located in Tennessee if it helps.


Well, tecnnically, it doesn't go by either. You can buy all the weight you want on your registration, but when you get pulled over and the Leo puts you on the scale pads, you'll be overweight on some or all of your axles. That's what your fine will be based on, I'm guessing your trucks rear axle and probably the front axle on your trailer will be far over their weight ratings, probably your rear trailer axle, too. 
The law goes by what your truck is tagged for, but if they suspect your overweight, they'll scale pad each axle. 
Now if youre simply driving over a typical "CAT" truck type scale, you're at 25,800 and you have a 26,000 registration, you should be ok. On paper, you have paid the state for the permission to drive 26k over the road and you are under that weight. 
I would warn you that you are way overweight on your truck and putting the GP in danger if you lose control or have to stop quickly. Your cummins can pull it, but your Chrysler brakes are not going to be able to stop it quickly and your spring hangers, axles, etc may not be enough to support it.
In full confession, my truck GCWR is 36,000. My axles add up to 40,000, but my truck was factory rated GCWR at 33,000. However, I got a MV-41 and "legally" changed the GCWR. I tried to do everything by the book, just in case. 
My typical fully loaded GCWR is 34-35,000. So I'm probably going to be pushing the limits of my 10k trailer axles, not the truck axles.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Strap it down good and haul ass.......beg for forgiveness. Both......


You just may be doing that!! Just hope you're not doing it in front of a judge after a sever accident with an injury! That's way past GCWR.
I kind of laugh at the guys that say "oh my cummins will pull 40,000 pounds" or whatever. You know it probably will, it's a great puller. Problem is, those little trailer brakes overheat and fade and the trucks brakes are a step above car brakes. The cummins might pull it, but will the brakes stop it? Will the axle hangers and suspension hold it? 
I worry about those things every time I load up a trailer.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nate, do you currently have a CDL?


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Ok thanks guys! That's pretty much what every farmer around me is doing just strap it down and forget your way over weight, but I am going to be hauling hay to Florida this year and don't want to sacrifice going to prison if I seriously hurt someone, plus I don't think I could live with myself if I killed someone and knew I had neglected being over that much. I am thinking about trading my 2008 2500 dodge for a 2008-2009 f-450 or f-550. 8350 yes I do have my class A CDL's, I will admit though I got them in 2008 went to truck driving school and all, but a month after graduating trucking school I got on the railroad as a conductor and never really used them.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Oh, I don't care if you haven't used it.  Just checking because if your "average" load of 25,800 means that someday you might end up at 26,000 that's one more thing they'll nail you to the wall for unless you have your CDL. That's probably a bigger fine than individual axles overweight. Good luck in your truck search.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Nate926 said:


> Ok thanks guys! That's pretty much what every farmer around me is doing just strap it down and forget your way over weight, but I am going to be hauling hay to Florida this year .....


If you're hauling hay to FL, you'll want to be underweight going through the mountains east of Chattanooga. Just ran down to Ocala and back with two horses and those 5-6% grades pushed me pretty good. Had one semi in front of me get his brakes smoking pretty good on the eastbound side. Had two trailers, one a semi, one a rolling house trailer of some kind on a one ton dually, loose one tire then immediately blow the other, right in front of me.

If you're thinking of multiple trips, you might check out sending semi trailer loads of 600+ bales vs 240/trip. Probably a lot cheaper in time and expense.

Ohh, and don't forget the agricultural checkpoints in Fla.--they get mighty nasty about things.

Ralph


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thank you 8350!! Rjmoses I regular haul hay as described with my current set up on the mountains you are describing I26 from Johnson city TN to Asheville NC and I 40 from Newport TN to on down to Marion NC. I have the 6 speed automatic trans in my dodge. Just drop it down to 5th gear and use the factory jake and you'll cruise at 55mph and never hit the brakes. Going up hill is the fun part lol. Give her all she's got get down to 45 mph and just keep giving her all she's got you get there eventually lol. I have though about buying my own semi and probably will someday, but at the time most people I have talked to don't want to buy more than 240-300 bales at at time. So it's hard to get a full semi sold. As I expand and find customers that want a semi load at a time I will get one. I prefer to haul my own load so I can shake the mans hand that I'm selling it to plus if there's any issues Im there and not 9-15 hours away. Plus some people like and will pay more for personal service.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Definitely stop at them at the Ag station ......
You will find it cost prohibitive to transport hay in that manner very quickly. With cheap gas it may work but you definitely need to explore other options. Purty flat once you get south of Atl, south of Macon smokies are everywhere for the duration.....


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Freight rates are dirt cheap right now hiring it done is the best option.


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## sixtyninegmc (Jul 20, 2011)

Y'all crack me up. Not saying you are wrong, by no means. I just have to laugh, reading this thread and looking at the weight I pull with my 2500 Dodge. A regular load is between 25,000-29,000lbs, in mountains with up to 10% grades, on ice. It can be done, and safely. Semi brakes fade fast too, you have to gear down and ease down the hill, slower than you climbed it. Legality is a whole nother story, but up here the scale cops leave goosenecks alone for the most part.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

sixtyninegmc said:


> Y'all crack me up. Not saying you are wrong, by no means. I just have to laugh, reading this thread and looking at the weight I pull with my 2500 Dodge. A regular load is between 25,000-29,000lbs, in mountains with up to 10% grades, on ice. It can be done, and safely. Semi brakes fade fast too, you have to gear down and ease down the hill, slower than you climbed it. Legality is a whole nother story, but up here the scale cops leave goosenecks alone for the most part.


Yeah, but you've got snow to cushion your fall; some us of have water, and others (poor devils) have rocks to cushion theirs.

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

speed is a big factor, pulling huge loads on backroad at low speed vs 65 mph + are two different things.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd rather do 10% grades on the highway than the crappy roads we have in the northeast and all the assholes buzzing around you in their mini coopers.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> I'd rather do 10% grades on the highway than the crappy roads we have in the northeast and all the assholes buzzing around you in their mini coopers.


They ought to outlaw them mini coopers. Ifn one of them gets stuck between ur duals, they make the tires wear funny if you don't catch it quick.

I agree with all...last I hauled (stupidly) was a 16000 pound dozer on a bumper hitch trailer with no trailer breaks pulled by a 1/2 ton truck. Hills and turns a little, but top speed was 20 mph (for stopping purposes).

Legally, those scale cops have a heart of stone and an overload ticket will pretty-much take the load of hay to pay for the ticket...totally aint worth being very much overweight. Once they have you for overweight, then they wanna check everything else. Try to be as legal as possible if getting out on the super slab, save the sneaking around for the roads close to home.

73, Mark


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## sixtyninegmc (Jul 20, 2011)

I could see the traffic and motorists being a real bother. I have trucked a little bit in the Seattle area, and I will take our crappy weather and roads over that any day. I guess my biggest point would be that if you are capable driver, light duty combinations are capable of a lot more than there rated GCWR's. I pull 100k lbs on a daily basis in the winter, and I guarantee my overloaded gooseneck stops better, has better power to weight ratio, and not much higher of a mechanical failure rate than my work truck. The biggest thing with pulling heavy, gooseneck or semi, is realizing most motorists aren't smart enough to keep from killing themselves under your load. You have to watch everybody on the road. If you are willing to do that, and can get away with it, have fun


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

I have heard that the weigh stations would prefer that a gooseneck loaded with hay would just skip the station, and if a hay load pulls in they are annoyed that it stopped and will stick them with every fine they can.

Can a hay loaded gooseneck just skip the weigh stations, or is this just a local thing?


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Hopefully this will fix my problem, going to pick it up saturday


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JMT said:


> I have heard that the weigh stations would prefer that a gooseneck loaded with hay would just skip the station, and if a hay load pulls in they are annoyed that it stopped and will stick them with every fine they can.
> 
> Can a hay loaded gooseneck just skip the weigh stations, or is this just a local thing?


Not in my area.

If the sign says the weigh station is "open" and you don't pull in, a cop stationed past the weigh station will chase you down and make your day a real beast.

Stay close to your truck's weight limits and realize that a truck or trailer is only as strong as it's weakest link. Theres a reason that there's axle weight ratings on the sticker in your door jamb.

Seen more "Cummins cowboys" and "super truckers" along side the road getting written up than I'd like to remember. Stacks and pointy lug nuts are a #1 red flag if the truck looks even slightly overloaded.

I've mentioned before, my buddy is an MCVE cop. His only job is to pull the aforementioned over towing way more than a truck is rated for. He knows more about trucks' capacities, axles, tires and airbrakes than a whole diner full of truckers.

You might get away with registering your truck way beyond its' limits, but if something aint sitting right, out come the scales.

The fines are freakin NASTY.

Like I said earlier, can it pull it? Yeah probably.

Can it support it and stop it quickly? Probably not.

Sure, you can do all you can to be careful, but no amount of care can keep a dumbass from pulling out in front of you.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nate926 said:


> Hopefully this will fix my problem, going to pick it up saturday


Thats better, but before you buy, get the specs. Know what your limits are. Buy a truck that you wont outgrow next year!


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks! It's a 2008 f450 lariat 4x4 6.4 diesel with 488 gears rated to pull 24,500lbs truck and trailer. Think it will be plenty what I need for a few years. Gonna put a new 30' gatormade dual tandem behind it. Hopefully pick up truck Saturday and trailer next week. Finally be legal!!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Now we know where that winner was in TN last week......congrats!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nate926 said:


> Thanks! It's a 2008 f450 lariat 4x4 6.4 diesel with 488 gears rated to pull 24,500lbs truck and trailer. Think it will be plenty what I need for a few years. Gonna put a new 30' gatormade dual tandem behind it. Hopefully pick up truck Saturday and trailer next week. Finally be legal!!!!


Hey just a little advice: I just bought a Big Tex Dual tandem 23,900 lb GVWR. Compared it to Gatormade. Gatormade is a fine trailer, but it was waaay too heavy for my liking.

Hay isnt a "punishing" cargo load, not like a dozer, or heavy iron. You dont need a trailer built that heavy. Besides, it steals paylod from you. My trailer weighs 6,600lbs empty. I think the Gator was like 7,700.

Thats less hay you can carry on your deliveries and more fuel wasted pulling your empty trailer home!

30' is a good choice on length. I went with 30', too. Big enough for most loads, short enough for tough deliveries.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Thanks! I looked at big Tex just now if they aren't a lot higher than gatormade I will get a 25gn HD in 30' for one odivious reason gator trailers have 2 10k axles but and call it a 24,900 trailer. Dealer said because there will be 25% on the hitch. Well that's true in a perfect world, but not true in the real world. With big tex there's is 12k axles. Big tex seems to be in the real world lol. Thanks man!!


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JMT said:


> I have heard that the weigh stations would prefer that a gooseneck loaded with hay would just skip the station, and if a hay load pulls in they are annoyed that it stopped and will stick them with every fine they can.
> Can a hay loaded gooseneck just skip the weigh stations, or is this just a local thing?


 In the southeast you never see a ton truck and a gooseneck going through the scales. If you read the fine writing I think you are supposed to go through but it is not enforced.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Add up your trailer, loaded, and your trucks empty weight. Does it exceed yor GCWR?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nate926 said:


> Hopefully this will fix my problem, going to pick it up saturday


Apparently I should be hauling hay to Florida!


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Nate926 said:


> Thank you 8350!! Rjmoses I regular haul hay as described with my current set up on the mountains you are describing I26 from Johnson city TN to Asheville NC and I 40 from Newport TN to on down to Marion NC. I have the 6 speed automatic trans in my dodge. Just drop it down to 5th gear and use the factory jake and you'll cruise at 55mph and never hit the brakes. Going up hill is the fun part lol. Give her all she's got get down to 45 mph and just keep giving her all she's got you get there eventually lol. I have though about buying my own semi and probably will someday, but at the time most people I have talked to don't want to buy more than 240-300 bales at at time. So it's hard to get a full semi sold. As I expand and find customers that want a semi load at a time I will get one. I prefer to haul my own load so I can shake the mans hand that I'm selling it to plus if there's any issues Im there and not 9-15 hours away. Plus some people like and will pay more for personal service.


 Well it looks like you have already found you another truck but if your 2500 safely handles that load coming down black mountain on I-40 you don't have anything to worry about going to Florida. Legally is a little different......most people I know and myself included just tag the truck for what your going to haul and don't worry about what the sticker in the truck says it's rated for......unless your giving them another reason to stop you they aren't likely to mess with stopping a pickup to weigh you.

I was looking at buying a 3500 back in the fall to haul loads of hay about the same size you are and most on here was telling me that I was going to be over the gvw of the truck......myself that didn't bother me no more than I would have been over but the reason I didn't buy that size of truck was that I needed to be hauling more bales at a time for the distance I was going than a 32 foot goose and a ton truck could.

For now I decided to hook a 22 foot pintle hitch trailer behind a cheverolet c6500 24 foot box truck that we already had for our other business. Can haul 350 bales with that rig which is a lot better than 250 with a ton truck and gooseneck.......only downside is the box truck has to be loaded by hand. Also with this truck there is no going past the scales. If I have to keep buying hay and hauling it back long distances I can see a semi truck in my future.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I just hauled 147 squares and 16 rounds today on my 40' gooseneck pulled with F350 drw......no brakes on trailer  (bad brake controller) about 100 miles......6mpg, ouch (glad fuel is cheap right now) flat ground here tho.....got to "get the big picture" 
However, it did have 10-4" straps and 6-2" straps securing the load......my biggest fear with hay is loads shifting and straps "cutting into" hay......far more important is to continually check your load. I stopped twice in the 100 mile trip to check the load.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Well I called a Florida weight station today. I got more bad news. They said even though I was selling my own hay and, even though it's a ag product I was still held under interstate commerce, and that means I have to have a ifta fuel tax sticker and irp temporary trip permit. Also if I'm over 26,000lbs which I am I have to have a dot number and a the name of my farm posted on both sides of the vehicle. The guy said they fine out of state hay guys all the time. I am of going to research this to make sure it's correct since there are ag exemptions. Will it stop me no, I'll get the permits and still haul.

As far is what the truck is rated for most state such as TN could careless if you truck is legally rated for what your hauling as long as you tag is rated for it. Some states do care from what I have gathered.

The reason I care is if I get in a wreck I'm 100% sure that the lawyer of the peoples vehicle I damaged or the people I harmed or worse yet killed will go after me for every penny or prison time he can get me for if I'm grossly over weight. There is no amount of money worth getting charge for man slaughter and spending years in prison.

What made me so cautious you ask???

This past summer I was down in charleston SC delivering a load. I delivered the load and was going to get back on the interstate. I had just got on the on ramp, there was a yield lane to my right. A car didn't yeild and suddenly ran partially under my trailer. My trailer went up and over the hood of the car. I was empty, and it didn't hurt my trailer at all. The guy was at fault of course and had to pay for the damages to his car. As I drove home I got to thinking what if I had been loaded? Well it was a two lane on ramp with a lane to my left that was packed with cars. If I had been loaded I'm sure it would have flipped my trailer, load, and possibly truck onto the cars in the lane beside me. Being a past sheriffs deputy for a short time they would have came out and done a accident report and if they was bodily injury it would have been a detailed investigation. They would have weighed a few bales got a average and calculated my weight and easily figured out I was grossly over weight. If there had been someone hurt or killed id be sitting in prison for quite a few years. I could also forget about my insurance over anything. Is being over weight worth it anymore. NO


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

In Texas anything over 26,000lbs requires a DOT Number and if your over 54k you are required to have a Texas DMV number as well even with farm plated trucks and trailers. I have both numbers and its displayed on the side of my big truck. I think the dot number has become a nationwide thing with more leniency in some states than others. For all the reasons listed in your last post I try to avoid pulling big loads with the one ton anymore although I am guilty of pulling my fair share of over weight loads (50k+) on 1 ton. The 450 is nice but you can save money buying a single axle semi truck and be better off in the long run.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nate926 said:


> Well I called a Florida weight station today. I got more bad news. They said even though I was selling my own hay and, even though it's a ag product I was still held under interstate commerce, and that means I have to have a ifta fuel tax sticker and irp temporary trip permit. Also if I'm over 26,000lbs which I am I have to have a dot number and a the name of my farm posted on both sides of the vehicle. The guy said they fine out of state hay guys all the time. I am of going to research this to make sure it's correct since there are ag exemptions. Will it stop me no, I'll get the permits and still haul.
> 
> As far is what the truck is rated for most state such as TN could careless if you truck is legally rated for what your hauling as long as you tag is rated for it. Some states do care from what I have gathered.
> 
> ...





Lewis Ranch said:


> Freight rates are dirt cheap right now hiring it done is the best option.


I have no idea how many loads per year you're doing but it sounds like you're getting in deeper and deeper. I hope those face-to-face deals are extremely fulfilling.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think one of the things we that haul hay need to realize is that trucks are the number one source of revenue for motor carrier enforcement. That's why you see all the fixed scales and portable scales in their vehicles. That's why you see the motor carrier vehicle eforcement trucks, too. 
If the average highway patrolman knew how many trucks were overweight or otherwise in violation, they'd stop writing speeding tickets and make millions off trucks. Just about every truck is in some sort of violation. Going down the road with what appears to be a load too large for the truck is a BIG red flag. 
I know my time is coming. I'm going to be in a hurry and forget something, or load just a few bales too many. We all probably will someday. 
I suggested the trucks & trailers forum a while back and I'm happy to see this topic come up because if we can all learn more about towing safely, it'll save damage, injury and maybe a life.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Not in my area.
> If the sign says the weigh station is "open" and you don't pull in, a cop stationed past the weigh station will chase you down and make your day a real beast.
> Stay close to your truck's weight limits and realize that a truck or trailer is only as strong as it's weakest link. Theres a reason that there's axle weight ratings on the sticker in your door jamb.
> 
> ...


Another reason I'm proud we live where we do!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

If ya keep callin around Nate, you won't ever take that hay down there......sometimes you just have to go. Ill repeat, it's not sustainable so why not take him what you can "legally" and figure a way to ship.......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

bluefarmer said:


> Another reason I'm proud we live where we do!!!


It must be great to live in the south, where there's no dumbasses cutting truckers off.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I thought all the old folks on the highways in Florida was a trouble hauling there.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Haha guys I am sold out this year wont be shipping any till cutting next spring, thats why Im getting it all figured out now so I'm ready for the spring. Looks like either a big tex, gatormade trailor or possibly a titan trailer. Think ive got it figured out now on what I can and cant haul. Thanks fellers


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nate926 said:


> Haha guys I am sold out this year wont be shipping any till cutting next spring, thats why Im getting it all figured out now so I'm ready for the spring. Looks like either a big tex, gatormade trailor or possibly a titan trailer. Think ive got it figured out now on what I can and cant haul. Thanks fellers


I really like my Big Tex. Should have ordered it with hydraulic jacks instead of crank type.

I highly suggest the monster ramps. They are really nice.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Look at load max trailers. U want sealed wiring harness.

If you are looking at pay load go aluminum.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> If the average highway patrolman knew how many trucks were overweight or otherwise in violation, they'd stop writing speeding tickets and make millions off trucks.


In North Carolina, there are no "Motor Carrier Enforcement" Officers. ALL Highway Patrolmen are trained as Motor Carrier Enforcement, and every NC State Trooper you pass has portable scales in their trunk.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Dan_GA said:


> In North Carolina, there are no "Motor Carrier Enforcement" Officers. ALL Highway Patrolmen are trained as Motor Carrier Enforcement, and every NC State Trooper you pass has portable scales in their trunk.


It's the same way here, but when they set up a roadblock to pull trucks over, they have vans & trucks with "motor carrier enforcement" on the sides to let you know they're setting up to pull trucks over and look for truck violations. Theres a special task force with "coveralls", tactical boots, gloves, etc to crawl all over your truck and bust your royal balls for anything they can find.

I just dont think all cops are well versed in truck violations. Seen many trucks with blatantly obvious violations drive right next to police vehicles and they just let them go.


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