# New Holland 315 tying issue



## joshwhitehead (Sep 1, 2014)

Had some trouble with the old 315 baler last season.... Am I correct in saying the twine is pulling from the twine holders? See the attached photo.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Your picture leads to more questions than solutions. The left side string appears to have two tails so the twine is not being pull from the twine disc and holder. If the twine is tied into the next bale's knot then it would be the knife arm possibly not cutting or not sweeping the knot off the bill hook or even a rough bill hook. A clearer explanation of the problem would help. Do both sides miss at the same time?


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## lidaacres (Oct 11, 2014)

There are allot of people on here smarter about knotters than I am, but I'll throw out an idea. IF they are missing at the same time which is what it sort of looks like in your picture I would look into a twine tension problem. Big square balers are what I deal with and the double knot system is different, but knots will hang up on the bill hook if twine tension is off with them.


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## joshwhitehead (Sep 1, 2014)

The photo doesn't do much justice, and I should of taken a close up but didn't. The knots from what I can tell hang on the bill hook, break as the bale is pushed thru and are then released as the next knot is tied. Generally one side will fail then the other. Twine quality may also be an issue-used the same supplier as usual but am sure their quality & concistancy has changed.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Josh, your tying issue is a really difficult one not being able to see what happened on the previous bale.

Could you please let us know if there is a difference in the thickness of the twine used before and this lot. The blue plastic twine looks very thin and may itself be an issue for the billhooks on a baler as old as the 315 which would have been designed for the much thicker sisal, however when all the ducks are lined up it should work well with the plastic but tolerances of error in adjustment may well be a lot less.

First a few very basic items to check because with failures on both knotters and seemingly slightly different we need to go back to first principles. I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs but sometimes the most basic setup error can cause an issue. My hay season is still about 8 weeks to baling and I opened the twine box on my baler yesterday and the twine from the right ball is not correctly routed, can only blame myself and that is after many decades of experience with baling  .

Starting off outside the knotter:

Is the twine loaded in the twine box correctly with the twine pulled from the centre of the ball?

Is the twine correctly routed to the knotter and all eyes, rub points and edges free of sharp or worn edges?

Check the twine tensioner as the twine leaves the twine box. Each twine should require around 3 lbs pull + or - 1lb but prefer 4 lbs. The tensioner plates may have a groove worn in them and with thinner twine not achieve the desired resistance.

Check the hay dogs, top and bottom to make sure they are working properly, not frozen up with rust or a broken spring or indeed not missing. They have to hold the end of the forming bale otherwise miss ties are likely.

Bale density is important as too light can cause tying issues as can too heavy. I do not know the material you are baling but a bale range 45b to 65 lb on a 36 inch bale would be an acceptable range for lightweight material to heavier stuff.

Check the twine fingers.These move the twine from the back of the needle across to where the billhook can grab it. Make sure the pivot point of the twine fingers is not worn and sloppy.

Disconnect the tractor and rotate the baler by hand and trip the knotter. The twine fingers should pass behind the needle, just clearing it by only 1/32 of an inch at most. If that adjustment is out then there is a sequence that must be followed to ensure correct adjustment.

First; set the needles to the knotter frame. The needle needs to rub gently against the frame to hold it firm and prevent wobble of the needle. GENTLE RUBBING ONLY. Adjust by loosening the front (lower) needle retaining bolt on the needle yoke and tap gently with a hammer until adjusted. Retighten the retaining bolt.

Second; adjust the twine finger to needle clearance by loosening the bolts on the piviot plate and slide on the slotted holes in the bale case. retighten bolts.

Third; adjust the twine finger at rest position so that its tip is level with or at most 1/32 inch over the bale case. There are two lock nuts on the activating rod to adjust this.

Try a few bales and see if the problem persists or not.

If still a problem go on below.

We move to the knotter.

WHENEVER ANY ADJUSTMENT IS MEDE TO THE KNOTTER CYCLE THE BALER? KNOTTER BY HAND TO MAKE SURE NO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. I know capitals are regarded as shouting but I hope the message is received.

On the left twine in your photo, to me it almost looks like the start of a bow knot and you mention that the knots also seem to hang on the billhook. The causes of both these symptoms can be the same: namely billhook tension, knife arm travel and twine finger travel too short.

First; the billhook tension may be too loose either because of excessive wear on the cam lobe , or the billhook roller is missing (or has flat spots worn on it) or the spring tension is too low. Cam lobe is OK, and the roller is there, then tighten the billhook cam spring. This is a nut on the right side of the knotter with a coiled compression spring under it. This controls the billhook tongue, too much pressure and knots hang on the billhook and too little and bow knots form because the ends a not pulled all the way through the forming knot. Flat spots on the billhook roller can result in too little pressure now but have been caused by too much spring pressure in the past. If there is a bit less than 3/4 inch of spring below the adjusting nut only adjust the spring tension by 1/6 to 1/4 turn at a time before trying some bales.

If any adjustments/replacements are carried out try a few bales.

Second the knife arm may not be going far enough past the billhook. The knife arm will need to be bent to achieve correct travel, do not worry it is made from malleable (workable) cast steel.

Undo the knotter by removing the retaining pin and raise the knotter up. It swings up with some resistance Keep fingers clear, if you don't pain will remind you.

Make sure there is a roller on the knife arm to contact the cam.

Swinging the knotter up and down a bit get the point where the knife arm is at its greatest travel.

At this point the knife arm scraper (the bit that rubs on the billhook) should be at least 3/8 inch past the billhook tip but no more than 1/2 inch past.

Bend the knife arm with an adjustable spanner or two at right angles if that works for you until the desired clearance is achieved. When the knotter is in its normal position the knife arm must not be in contact with the billhook otherwise damage will occur.

Ensure the knife arm scraper makes firm contact with the billhook and is flat in profile across the portion that contacts the billhook. It is curved from side to side but must have flat contact with the curve of the billhook so the twine is not wedging the knife arm away from the billhook.

Knock the knife arm with a hammer to reshape it for quite firm contact with the billhook.

Put the knotter back in its usual position.

Replace retaining pin and hairclip. Bad things happen if a knotter is not restrained loosely in position. Extensive and expensive damage can happen.

Try some bales, if problems persist, please give a photo of the then current failings because I think there is more than one thing going on at a time with your knotters and another diagnosis can be made with those issues mentioned above addressed.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

Regards

Kevin


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## joshwhitehead (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks for the information Kevin, will start to delve into it abit more when I get a chance!


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## Bob B (Sep 26, 2020)

I will be using my NH Hayliner315 for the first time today, can anyone provide me with the twine routing 
And other basic things I should know , first time baling for me here 
Thank you


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Welcome to HT & the trials/tribulations of baling hay 
Most sq balers I've been around have a decal showing twine/wire routing from baler storage box to needle frame. Look on underside of twine box lid for twine threading decal. There is also a U-tube video on twine threading available. If you don't have an operators manual I highly suggest you acquire & read an sq baler OM.


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