# new enterprise



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

on our dairy farm we started raising all our Holstein bull calves we plan on casterating them and we will finish feeding them on a diet of mostly next alfalfa orchard grass
if we give them no corn would this be considered grass fed beef any other advice would be appreciated milk cows all our lives never did much with beef we milk 100 cows so whatever we end up with bulls is the amount we want to raise


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

I have very little knowledge, but I was wondering the same thing. I don't think it will work very well though. You may be able to pull it off if you plan on just backgrounding them, but I don't think they will finish well with no corn. If you can sell them all as freezer beef to people that want grass fed you may be able to pull it off, but I don't think you will have much if any finish.

I can tell you from my experience raising a few jersey steers that they need grain, and lots of it if you want a decent finish.

I talked to a beef nutritionalist free choice grain (i used ground ear corn & a concentrate pellet) with very limited roughage, 1-2 lbs/day/head. It worked quite well.

If you have a nutritionalist for your dairy you may want to talk your idea over with them & see what they suggest.


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## prairie (Jun 20, 2008)

grass finishing modern high production Holstein steers will be very difficult, in not impossible, especially if you don't already have grass finishing experience. There is a huge difference between grass fed and grass finished. Grass finished animals will grade high select and better.

Fowllife, I am surprised that you couldn't grass finish jersey steers. Experienced grass finishers say that Jerseys are one of the easier breeds to grass finish, even easier than many beef breeds.

Even though they are very good at what they do in a conventional setting, most beef and dairy nutritionist don't have a good grasp of grass finishing and pass out a lot of bad information about it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

prairie said:


> grass finishing modern high production Holstein steers will be very difficult, in not impossible, especially if you don't already have grass finishing experience. There is a huge difference between grass fed and grass finished. Grass finished animals will grade high select and better.
> 
> Fowllife, I am surprised that you couldn't grass finish jersey steers. Experienced grass finishers say that Jerseys are one of the easier breeds to grass finish, even easier than many beef breeds.
> Even though they are very good at what they do in a conventional setting, most beef and dairy nutritionist don't have a good grasp of grass finishing and pass out a lot of bad information about it.


We are going to learn


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

prairie said:


> Fowllife, I am surprised that you couldn't grass finish jersey steers. Experienced grass finishers say that Jerseys are one of the easier breeds to grass finish, even easier than many beef breeds.
> 
> Even though they are very good at what they do in a conventional setting, most beef and dairy nutritionist don't have a good grasp of grass finishing and pass out a lot of bad information about it.


 Well to be honest I didn't actually give them much of a chance, and we were not really trying to grass finish.It seemed like if they could even see grass they would start losing condition. On full feed they looked real nice, but as soon as we kicked them out with the beef cows they dropped condition real fast. We got tired of them & put them in the freezer early.

I agree with Prairie about the nutritionalist part. You best bet would be to find someone who does what you want to do & see how they do it, then then try to make it fit your plan.

If your dairy currently grass based with minimal feed ration, or a full feed confinment operation? If you herd has grass based genetics I would think you would have a lot easier time.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I wouldn't over think it. Start making some contacts for people who want to buy. We aren't totally grass fed we feed a tiny amount of grain less than a lb/day mainly for minerals and getting the animals to come to us. Anyway I sell it as pasture raised, both as 1/4s and straight burger. I get 3.5/lb hanging inc processing and 5/lb burger which actually puts me on the lower 1/3 of the local market. However more than half of my animals are holstein bull calves from local dairies. Mostly cause they are free to 50 bucks.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If you are going to do it feed some decent hay with protein in it.I see people trying to feed junk hay to holestiens and end up with a giraffe.Just not enough feed value in it to put the meat on the bones.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Another thing and I'm not sure about the terminology but I'm sure I read that grass fed beef can be finished 90 or 120 days on corn before slaughter. I'm sure grass finished means zero grain.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

When we sold grass fed beef, we fed the corn gluten/soy hull/peanut hull mix from Southern States. The blend was supposed to be grain free. Never really checked that out though, just what I was told.

I have never had a problem getting holsteins fat. Jerseys proved more of a challenge.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tim/South said:


> When we sold grass fed beef, we fed the corn gluten/soy hull/peanut hull mix from Southern States. The blend was supposed to be grain free. Never really checked that out though, just what I was told.
> 
> I have never had a problem getting holsteins fat. Jerseys proved more of a challenge.


Grain Free??Corn gluten comes from corn,Soy Hulls comes from soybeans.So I wouldn't call that "Grain Free"


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Grain Free??Corn gluten comes from corn,Soy Hulls comes from soybeans.So I wouldn't call that "Grain Free"


It is the hulls from the beans and peanuts. Not the actual bean or peanut.

Corn gluten has been run through the ringer and does not contain any grain from what I can gather.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

If you look into what some call grass fed it may surprise you. Corn is a grass. Some find creative alternative feeds that are allowed by labeling.

Honesty with customers will bring them back again. You are selling a premium product from a known source. Even if the premium price is not commanded by the market your customers will appreciate knowing where their meal came from. Many don't care, but most of your customers will.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I know nothing about raising cattle but common since would tell me you would want something with high protein like alfalfa maybe. I wonder if alfalfa baleage might would be a good option.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I know nothing about raising cattle but common since would tell me you would want something with high protein like alfalfa maybe. I wonder if alfalfa baleage might would be a good option.


I think for the dairyman that's the choice, cattleman around here is generally grass, tift 85 dry hay the preferred choice in these parts....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> I think for the dairyman that's the choice, cattleman around here is generally grass, tift 85 dry hay the preferred choice in these parts....


Same here.

Alfalfa is a luxury hay in these parts. Has to be trucked in and is $10 or more per bale.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Yeah no alfalfa here either but we also don't have tifton 85 though. I can see in the south it would be cost prohibited to feed beef cows alfalfa. I was just wondering if up north where alfalfa may be more common if it would be a desirable feed for beef cows.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a friend that has a dairy ( not many left in these parts) he has about 50 acres of alfalfa, I like his method. Cut before lunch, bale before dark. Leaves them wrapped for 6 months.....


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Deadmoose is right. If your selling direct, people want to get to know you. If they can come to your farm and see the cows out on pasture when they pick up the meat. Let the kids pet a calf and sit on a tractor. That's better marketing than the label. I'm only doing 1 farmers market right in town. Just cause with a real job and the farm. I can't spend all my time driving around to them. So the sales of the 1/4s and 1/2s I have them come to me and pick up.
The other thing to line up now, is the slaugther house. Right now I only have 2 to pick from in the state and the one I use is 2 hours away. But its worth it because the packaging is superb.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Yeah no alfalfa here either but we also don't have tifton 85 though. I can see in the south it would be cost prohibited to feed beef cows alfalfa. I was just wondering if up north where alfalfa may be more common if it would be a desirable feed for beef cows.


I have always been a tad bit envious of the people who had easy access to buying alfalfa, areas of the country where it is the common hay.

Years ago I was at a horse show in Arkansas. A man brought his friends over to look at my Bermuda hay. It was as much a novilty to them as their Alfalfa was to me.

Even back then Alfalfa was $10 a bale here.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> I have always been a tad bit envious of the people who had easy access to buying alfalfa, areas of the country where it is the common hay.
> 
> Years ago I was at a horse show in Arkansas. A man brought his friends over to look at my Bermuda hay. It was as much a novilty to them as their Alfalfa was to me.
> 
> Even back then Alfalfa was $10 a bale here.


All depends on location, here with alfalfa easily available most people have never heard of bermuda, baha, tifton or those other exotic sounding grasses. Most would think it's something you'd find on a golf course.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Yeah no alfalfa here either but we also don't have tifton 85 though. I can see in the south it would be cost prohibited to feed beef cows alfalfa. I was just wondering if up north where alfalfa may be more common if it would be a desirable feed for beef cows.


Yes I am from up north if I feed alfalfa o/g mixed hay and no grain would it still be grass feed beef


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

So may be my next question is confusing. If I feed alfalfa will it still be grass feed beef


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

endrow said:


> So may be my next question is confusing. If I feed alfalfa will it still be grass feed beef


Yes.

You could get fancy and market the beef as *Legume Fed*.

That would open the door to explain that not only were your steers forage fed, but they were fed the highest quality forage available.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Grass fed generally refers to grain free. Some bend definitions with things like corn silage and so on... but alfalfa is definitely considered acceptable in a grass based operation.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Our dairy heifers do not see grain or corn silage till they are in the milking string they get free choice good quality Alfalfa O/G mix hay and liquid feed;; "Southern states Mol mix" It is molasses with vitamins minerals and urea for protein The tanks are provided and filled by a dealer . they are called lick tanks or wheel feeders. And we would want to feed the steers the same way. The important thing is profit . let me know what you think


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