# 688 new holland roller trouble



## chadw (Sep 18, 2013)

I am having trouble starting a roll. The hay goes in the pickup and jams up the pickup. Once I get the roll started I dont have any trouble then. I can sometime start and stop the pto several times and it will gradually pull the hay on in or sometime I have to clean out the pickup by hand. Any suggestions? Thanks


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Is this occasional or almost every bale?


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## chadw (Sep 18, 2013)

Almost every bale now. It has gradually gotten worse.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Assuming that everything is still turning (chains on, slip clutches engaging), you could possibly have your starter roll and or dimple rolls worn enough that they won't grab the particular type of hay that you're baling. Just a thought.


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## chadw (Sep 18, 2013)

Could the gear on the outside that I assume runs the starter roll be slipping and cause this? That gear stops turning when this happens.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

That sounds more like a bad slip clutch. Either a cracked flat spring or worn dogs.


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## chadw (Sep 18, 2013)

OK thanks.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I went through a couple of sets of dogs on my 644 when it had the same problem. Eventually we decided something else had to be wrong and inspected the springs THOROUGHLY. You can easily miss a tiny crack in one but a cracked spring, if you find one, would most certainly be the origin of your trouble.


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## chadw (Sep 18, 2013)

I will check them. Thanks for your help.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I doubt if the problem is mechanical. It sounds more like you are baling dry, short or small windrows or any combination of the three. The bale is breaking apart before the core can start and feeding back over the pickup. Slow your engine speed down by at least a third and maintain or increase your ground speed. Once the core is formed you can speed it back up. Another indication if this is the problem is hay will boil up in front of the belts.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mike10 said:


> I doubt if the problem is mechanical. It sounds more like you are baling dry, short or small windrows or any combination of the three. The bale is breaking apart before the core can start and feeding back over the pickup. Slow your engine speed down by at least a third and maintain or increase your ground speed. Once the core is formed you can speed it back up. Another indication if this is the problem is hay will boil up in front of the belts.


I agree this can happen mike, but for a problem that started out as infrequent and is now near constant, in addition to the starter roll cog visibly not turning, something has to be slipping in my opinion.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> I agree this can happen mike, but for a problem that started out as infrequent and is now near constant, in addition to the starter roll cog visibly not turning, something has to be slipping in my opinion.


I stand corrected. I did not fully read his other posts thoroughly. But what he is stating does not make sense either. The sprocket which drives the starter roll is a welded double sprocket. The inner sprocket drives the belt drive roll. The outer one drives the starter roll. Since the belts are running there is power to the sprockets from the gearbox. If the weld has failed I would not think he could bale at all, but he states once the bale is going it will make a full size bale. There is definitely more pressure on the starter roll, floor roll, pickup and sledge rolls with a full bale than when it is just forming the core. Also if a weld has failed I would think he could see this or at least suspect it. He also does not say the floor roll and pickup stop which would also happen if the drive sprocket is loose on the hub. I guess he could also have the teeth worn off on this sprocket but again it would not drive part of the time.

We need more clarification of which sprocket is not turning.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm assuming it's the floor roll not turning.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

For whatever reason, around here we call the floor roll the starter roll.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If the floor roll sprocket is not turning then he should be hearing the floor roll slip clutch ratcheting. If the slip clutch adjustment was too loose to cause the slip clutch not to make a noise, he would be able to see that.

The crux of this problem is the information that a sprocket is not turning. Aside from the drive sprocket weld failure, you are then left with floor roll or starter roll failure or sledge slip clutch slipping or sledge roll slip clutch key failure, though all the sprockets would still be turning.

The only two sprockets I can see not turning, without any noticeable noise, is the starter roll drive sprocket on the gearbox output shaft or if the starter roll drive shaft broke loose from the roll then the sledge drive sprocket on the right side would not turn.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I think you can rule out drive sprocket weld failure as if I understand what you're suggesting, the sprocket would still be turning. It would be the roll that would cease to turn if the weld failed, right?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

That is correct.


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## Iowacattleman80 (Jun 15, 2017)

Is there any another reasons why it wouldn't start a roll? My baler does it the more you bale. Starts out ok but after about twenty or thirty bales the hard it gets to start a roll.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Short or very dry hay will have a tendency to break apart when forming a core. Slow your engine speed down and increase your ground speed.


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## Iowacattleman80 (Jun 15, 2017)

What does slowing the rpm down do? If the faster I go it will just pack more hay into the pickup and I will have to dig it out when it doesn't start a core roll!


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## Iowacattleman80 (Jun 15, 2017)

And why doesnt it do it all the time? Bales a smaller field of the same grass and didn't have any problems


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## Redbaler (Jun 10, 2011)

It's all about how dry and slick it is. When I used to bale really dry grass with a 6 series sometimes I couldn't get it to start a core no matter what I tried. Come back at night or first thing in the morning when the moisture has increased is what I recommend.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The problem is the core is breaking down and being thrown back out of the baler. To minimize the breakdown of the core, slow the engine speed down so the core is not turning as fast and increase the ground speed so enough material is being forced fed into the core to hold the core together. Once the core is made you can increase your engine speed but if you start seeing large amounts of hay being brought up the front of the baler you will need to slow your engine speed back down until the hay is no longer being ejected upward.

This is not new advice and is a proven method to get through situations like you are experiencing.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto on slowing pto speed & increasing ground speed to keep hay from peeling off core in dry & short stem hay.


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