# How to get a disc harrow to leave the ground level?



## FarmerCline

Starting discing up the ground I had previously chisel plowed getting it ready to plant alfalfa. 

I'm having a real problem getting this disc to level. I have had this disc for a few years and have yet to get it to do a level job of discing. I have adjusted the threaded rod on the disc that is supposed to control the pitch of the disc forward to back so both the front and rear gangs are cutting at the same depth which according to the book will eliminate ridge/furrow in the middle of the disc but it just doesn't seem to be making much difference when I adjust it. 

Last fall I had trouble with it wanting to leave a ridge in the middle of the disc and now today without changing how it was still adjusted from last fall it was leaving a furrow in the middle. I'm starting to think that this disc is just a pos. 

This particular field I'm trying to get worked down will be no-till from here on out so I really need to get it smooth before I plant.

Hayden


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## 8350HiTech

Have you tried adjusting ground speed and/or making a finish pass with the disc less deep? Otherwise, the best way to make a disc finish nicely is to pull another implement behind it.


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## reede

I don't know about making it smoother with the disc. I follow by dragging a piece of 2 x 12inch channel iron about 20 feet long behind the tractor after I'm finished discing to smooth everything out. That will do a lot of smoothing, and a little bit of packing.


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## FarmerCline

8350HiTech said:


> Have you tried adjusting ground speed and/or making a finish pass with the disc less deep? Otherwise, the best way to make a disc finish nicely is to pull another implement behind it.


 What I can't figure out is how at the same depth and ground speed without making any adjustments did it go from ridging last fall the leaving a furrow this spring? I have tried different ground speeds and it didn't help the problem much......seemed the faster I went the worse it got. Last fall in an attempt to get the ground smooth I made three passes over the field each in a different direction. I'm also pulling a railroad iron as a drag behind the disc to help level things up but it was still leaving me with a furrow in the middle today.


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## mlappin

8350HiTech said:


> Have you tried adjusting ground speed and/or making a finish pass with the disc less deep? Otherwise, the best way to make a disc finish nicely is to pull another implement behind it.


Called a field cultivator with feathering boards.


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## Wethay

Soil type, moisture, sod, speed, most everything will an effect on how a disc cuts. For me a cover crop disc is used for cutting up sod, a "finishing" disc is used after a moldboard plow and before a heavy harrow, sprocket roller and light harrow. I've never had good luck using a disc without another implement, or more, after it.


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## FarmerCline

mlappin said:


> Called a field cultivator with feathering boards.


 Not familiar with that implement. Can it be used in place of a disc harrow?


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## Gearclash

Make and model of disc? Biggest adjustments would be fore-aft pitch and your ground speed. Up to a point faster is better. A good drag harrow behind the disc helps a lot also.


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## FarmerCline

Gearclash said:


> Make and model of disc? Biggest adjustments would be fore-aft pitch and your ground speed. Up to a point faster is better. A good drag harrow behind the disc helps a lot also.


 Its a Taylor Way 12 foot disc harrow. I think the model number is a 351.


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## mlappin

FarmerCline said:


> Not familiar with that implement. Can it be used in place of a disc harrow?


Depends how hard the ground is, I've seen many used in the spring on fall chiseled ground before soil finishers became the norm.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/9148489/white-220


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> Starting discing up the ground I had previously chisel plowed getting it ready to plant alfalfa. I'm having a real problem getting this disc to level. I have had this disc a few years and have yet to get it to do a level job of discing. I have adjusted the threaded rod on the disc that is supposed to control the pitch of the disc forward to back so both the front and rear gangs are cutting at the same depth which according to the book will eliminate ridge/furrow in the middle of the disc but it just doesn't seem to be making much difference when I adjust it. Last fall I had trouble with it wanting to leave a ridge in the middle of the disc and now today without changing how it was still adjusted from last fall it was leaving a furrow in the middle. Im starting to think that this disc is just a pos. This particular field I'm trying to get worked down will be no till from here on out so I really need to get it smooth before I plant.
> 
> Hayden


What make and model??

Getting the disk to level out is a yearly affair... a lot depends on the moisture and texture of the soil, how deep the disk is cutting, ground speed, etc. If you're leaving a furrow in the center, crank the rear down (raise the front). If you're leaving a berm in the center, crank the rear up (lower the front).

Some disks are just kinda balky in some conditions...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> Its a Taylor Way 12 foot disc harrow. I think the model number is a 351.


Blade diameter and spacing??

Got pics??

OL J R 

PS. I pull an old pair of JD spike tooth harrows behind my disk on chains-- does a BEAUTIFUL job... (IH 470 disk 13.5 footer).


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> Its a Taylor Way 12 foot disc harrow. I think the model number is a 351.


Some disks also have adjustments for the gang angles-- flatter angles mean less "throw" of the soil sideways, thus less furrowing and ridging...

Later! OL J R


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## 8gross

Any access to a culti-mulcher? Just the nature of the machine. That's the same reason we don't really like to use them on my Dad's cropland. It works better going around in circles but you might have to find a "euro" type high-speed disk. I've got a 16ft offset and can never get rid of the ridge from the rear gangs.


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## FarmerCline

luke strawwalker said:


> Blade diameter and spacing??
> 
> Got pics??
> 
> OL J R
> 
> PS. I pull an old pair of JD spike tooth harrows behind my disk on chains-- does a BEAUTIFUL job... (IH 470 disk 13.5 footer).


 20" discs at 9" spacing on the front gangs and 7 1/2" spacing on the rear gangs.


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## FarmerCline

8gross said:


> Any access to a culti-mulcher? Just the nature of the machine. That's the same reason we don't really like to use them on my Dad's cropland. It works better going around in circles but you might have to find a "euro" type high-speed disk. I've got a 16ft offset and can never get rid of the ridge from the rear gangs.


 I have a cultimulcher which I plan on using to give the finishing touch before planting. It can only level out so much tough and that's why I wish I could get the disc to do a better job.


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## Teslan

With our Sunflower disc it's all about speed. If I go over 6 mph it will leave the middle ridge under 6 even at say 5.7 mph it's fine for the most part. But if the soil gets fine and sandy I might have to knock it down to 5.3 or something. Then I always follow with a cultimultcher. I need to rig something up so I can just pull the cultimultcher behind the disc. The manual for the disc even says under no circumstances should you go over 6 mph. Sometime I need to look into one of those high speed discs.


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## IH 1586

Discs are considered primary tillage and would not plan on just the discs to get the ground level and ready to plant. You would want to run mulch finishers, drags, and or cultimulchers after you disc. Do your cultimulchers have teeth? You could finish with them if you don't have access to the other pieces. I personally don't like to finish a hay field with the teeth on a cultimulcher. They don't do as good of a job as the drags.


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## SCtrailrider

My disc is near the same as you have, I worked a lot with the same trouble..

I adjusted the disc from side to side making the rack of disc on each side closer or further away, never could get it smooth, just spent time with the spike drag thing and got things smooth that way....


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## broadriverhay

We have a King 3 pt disc and have always fought the same issues. It is sitting in the woods and has not been used in years. Our soil is a sandy loam and it seems to be prone to these issues. I think that is because it tills so easy. It moves a lot if you know what I mean.


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## Tx Jim

Some makes & models of disc harrows just won't leave soil level. JD model RW & RWA are 2 models that come to mind. As mentioned ground speed especially faster affects levelness of soil. Are frt & rear gangs adjustable for different angles? Field. cultivator with spring evener will get soil level.


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## Farmerbrown2

We have a JD 215 great disc when we got it ,once the blades get worn it's performance goes down hill . Even with good blades on now the linkedge is getting worn so it doesn't do the best job .


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## r82230

For years we used a set of drags ALWAYS after disking for hay fields. That was before I got the field cultivator with leveling fingers on the back end. Now I am 100% no-till.

I remember a neighbor who dragged a piece of telephone pole with old bed springs attached behind his disk to level his hay fields.

Larry


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## slowzuki

Without a levelling attachment they don't level very well. We pull a spring tooth drag harrow that is 2 ft wider than the disc to do the levelling.

In days of yore here they didn't use discs, only the spring tooth harrows.


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## FarmerCline

IH 1586 said:


> Discs are considered primary tillage and would not plan on just the discs to get the ground level and ready to plant. You would want to run mulch finishers, drags, and or cultimulchers after you disc. Do your cultimulchers have teeth? You could finish with them if you don't have access to the other pieces. I personally don't like to finish a hay field with the teeth on a cultimulcher. They don't do as good of a job as the drags.


 My cultimulcher has c tines. I'm not trying to finish the ground with the disc.....just using it to work down the chisel plowed ground before running the cultimulcher. It just seems like I'm going backwards though in getting the ground smooth since the disc is leaving the ground so unlevel. It sounds like I have tried to make the proper adjustments on the disc without much luck so as I suspected it sounds like my disc is just a pos.

With only having this disc and a cultimulcher to work with at this point what would be your method of trying to get the ground as smooth and level as possible for planting?


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## r82230

Rent, borrow (do not steal) a piece of equipment to get the job done right first (level field). If you don't get the field nice and level,  I think you will be possibly 'kicking' your self somewhere for years to come with that hay field.

Larry

I should have added, "don't ask me how I know", regarding the kicking part.


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## FarmerCline

r82230 said:


> Rent, borrow (do not steal) a piece of equipment to get the job done right first (level field). If you don't get the field nice and level, I think you will be possibly 'kicking' your self somewhere for years to come with that hay field.
> 
> Larry
> 
> I should have added, "don't ask me how I know", regarding the kicking part.


 Unfortunately in my area that isn't going to be an option. I don't know of anyone that has tillage equipment that I could borrow and there are no dealers that rent out equipment around here.....very little farming that goes on around here anymore and everything is pretty much no till. Sounds like I'm going to have to purchase some different tillage equipment before I work up another field this fall.....not going to help me much now though. Trying to transition to no till but I have to get the ground smooth and level first.


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## slowzuki

If the clumps pulled up by the chisel have been killed off and the sod is loosened, almost anything you drag will work better than the disc.

Local options include telephone poles, rail road track, old i-beams, 8x8 beams, old tires bolted together. You need something that carries dirt and is rigid either side to side or front to back so the dirt can fall into low spots and the high stuff gets chopped off.

Edit, I've used 6" well casing with a chain through it as well, works ok. The transport tire drags - just bolted together through the tread or a couple of big loader tires seem to work really well.


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## r82230

It's a long drive but I have an old set of spring tooth drags that I would let you borrow. I have personally used them many years ago behind the Farmall H, with the swing drawbar being used. (just so you know the HP requirements). Man that brings back a few memories of what was called 'summer fallowing' in MY neck of the woods.  The drags are what we called a 3 section drag, so broke down you could load in the back of a pickup (the 12 foot cross beam might be sticking out a little however).

Larry


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## IH 1586

FarmerCline said:


> My cultimulcher has c tines. I'm not trying to finish the ground with the disc.....just using it to work down the chisel plowed ground before running the cultimulcher. It just seems like I'm going backwards though in getting the ground smooth since the disc is leaving the ground so unlevel. It sounds like I have tried to make the proper adjustments on the disc without much luck so as I suspected it sounds like my disc is just a pos.
> 
> With only having this disc and a cultimulcher to work with at this point what would be your method of trying to get the ground as smooth and level as possible for planting?


I wouldn't say your discs are pos they sound like typical discs. For finishing the field after discing and if the field is not sod run the teeth on the cultimulcher deep and run the field at an angle. With the deep setting and good speed you will move a lot of dirt around. The second time over run the teeth shallower and run the field in the same direction you will be planting and haying. The reason I don't run the teeth down on hay field is cultimulchers seem to leave it a little rougher than the drags do but if you work it in the correct direction it won't be noticeable.

They have various drag type attachments that can be mounted right on the discs. Some fold up if you don't want to use them all the time.


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## FarmerCline

I wonder how it would work to not use the disc and just run the cultimulcher with the tines down? The field was soybean stubble so there isn't any sod to deal with. I'm pulling a railroad iron behind the disc but it still isn't fully leveling it out enough.


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## BWfarms

I have 3 harrow setups. A pull type crosscut with full set of cutting disc, a pull type with front cutting disc followed by smoothing disk, and a 3 point with cutting disc. I can change pitch on all but the crosscut. I use them according to soil moisture or hardness. You can smooth a field up with one but it takes a lot of speed adjusting and staying on top of your implement depth.

I find the faster I go, the deeper a harrow cuts but I need speed to break up the clods. Cut max depth I want to go the first pass then raise the harrow for each subsequent pass going the opposite direction. This is really the only way if you have limited resources. Have never used a cultimulcher but I have used a chain drag following a cultipacker and it does wonders.


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## IH 1586

FarmerCline said:


> I wonder how it would work to not use the disc and just run the cultimulcher with the tines down? The field was soybean stubble so there isn't any sod to deal with. I'm pulling a railroad iron behind the disc but it still isn't fully leveling it out enough.


I would give it a shot. I believe you said it was chiseled and if it's good and dry I would think it work just as good. It could take 3 trips over. I have a method that dad did that I call a zig zag that covers a field twice quickly works great on square or rectangle field. Not sure how to explain on here its more of a draw it on the hood of the tractor explanation.


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## SCtrailrider

If you have time & material, weld some heavy metal together, not straight across per say but at say a 45* angle, some running one way, others going the other way, when you drag it it will move dirt from one side to another and fill low spots.. Don't know how close you are to Spartanburg but I have a 3pt drag with the spikes sticking down you can use, it would fit in a p/u and hang off some....


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## Gearclash

Since it's bean stubble, I would try the cultimulcher with out disking. You've got nothing to lose. If that doesn't work I would disk it, then follow up with the cultimulcher fairly soon, before the dirt drys out. Run the cultimilcher at an angle to the disk pattern.


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## stack em up

How level a disc makes a field also depends on blade size. Our old IH did ammuchc more level job with 18" blades than out AC did with 24" blaeds


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## Tx Jim

stack em up said:


> How level a disc makes a field also depends on blade size. Our old IH did ammuchc more level job with 18" blades than out AC did with 24" blaeds


Do you have any facts to prove your statement? If one utilized hyd cylinder stops so each disk harrow penetrated the soil at the same depth & were pulled at the same ground speed I doubt one could tell much difference in the levelness of soil because of disk diameter.


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## 8350HiTech

Get longer hoses and run the cultimulcher behind your disc with the tines down. Then finish with just the cultimulcher without the tines or with them not as deep.


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> Do you have any facts to prove your statement? If one utilized hyd cylinder stops so each disk harrow penetrated the soil at the same depth & were pulled at the same ground speed I doubt one could tell much difference in the levelness of soil because of disk diameter.


I guarantee if you ran a disc same speed and depth, you will see a much smoother job on 18" blades versus 24". Like a 14" plow bottom versus an 18".


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## Gearclash

In order to properly compare apples to apples you'd have to have the same blade spacing.


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## Tx Jim

stack em up said:


> I guarantee if you ran a disc same speed and depth, you will see a much smoother job on 18" blades versus 24". Like a 14" plow bottom versus an 18".


Your guarantee is an opinion but without facts. You're not taking into consideration many variables such as difference in design of implements by different manufacturers,angle of disk blades & penetration depth of disks..Do you mean smoothness as in more or less clods or peaks & valley's which is what OP started this thread about??? I never pulled a 18'' moldboard but I saw no difference in the levelness of soil between a 14'' & 16'' moldboard IF PLOW WAS ADJUSTED CORRECTLY which some people don't know how to do.


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> Your guarantee is an opinion but without facts. You're not taking into consideration many variables such as difference in design of implements by different manufacturers,angle of disk blades & penetration depth of disks..Do you mean smoothness as in more or less clods or peaks & valley's which is what OP started this thread about??? I never pulled a 18'' moldboard but I saw no difference in the levelness of soil between a 14'' & 16'' moldboard IF PLOW WAS ADJUSTED CORRECTLY which some people don't know how to do.


Screw it. You're right, I'm wrong. This site isn't worth getting into a pissing match, so I'm done.


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## Tx Jim

stack em up

There's no need to get upset just because we disagree. I started plowing over 60 yrs ago and I've plowed a several 1000 acres. Plus I sold & delivered new & used plows for several yrs. Have a nice day,

Jim


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## r82230

IH 1586 said:


> Not sure how to explain on here its more of a draw it on the hood of the tractor explanation.


Preferably a dusty hood I would expect. 

Larry


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## slowzuki

Re the blade diameter I've seen more difference in blade spacing than diameter. Some bigger discs have quite wide spacing.


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## Hayman1

Hayden-I have the same issue with my JD 12' #110 disk. I run a 16' double 6 x 6 drag behind it. 6x 6s are held about 2' apart with allthread. All I look for from my disk is loosening and chopping clods. I then use my brillion roller harrow (has two rows of spring tooth shanks). I run the shanks deep the first pass, then up several slots on following passes. The last pass they barely touch the ground. Leaves a nice finish. Still think that an old spring tooth harrow run with diagonal cross passes is hard to beat if you have a field that is big enough to make it efficient.


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## Orchard6

We use an Unverferth Perfecta II for leveling up fields around here. It works real good and the rolling baskets make for a nice seed bed.


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## FarmerCline

Well I tried a couple passes with the cultimulcher running the tines down without discing and it actually worked a lot better than I imagined it would.....left the ground a lot smoother than the disc. The trouble is this ground was already pretty unlevel from the past couple years of running this disc and the cultimulcher just couldn't move enough dirt around to fix that. If the ground hadn't been previously worked the past couple years with a disc that was ridging the cultimulcher probably would have worked pretty good.

I decided to call my fertilizer dealer to see if he had any old tillage equipment from years gone by that I could use. All he had left was an old IH disc.....I decided to get the disc and see if it did any better than mine. I hooked the railroad iron behind it as a drag and was fairly pleased with how it did.....a lot better and more level job than my Taylor Way. Didnt get much done before it started raining this evening......wasn't supposed to start until midnight.


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> 20" discs at 9" spacing on the front gangs and 7 1/2" spacing on the rear gangs.


Ok reason I asked is that usually the wider the spacing the rougher they leave the ground and the more uneven it is... (plowing disk at say 11 inch blade spacing versus a "finishing disk" at 7.5 blade spacing all around).

Gang angles can have a big effect too-- the steeper the gang angle, the more they throw the dirt sideways, and the more critical leveling becomes to prevent ridging or furrowing...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> My cultimulcher has c tines. I'm not trying to finish the ground with the disc.....just using it to work down the chisel plowed ground before running the cultimulcher. It just seems like I'm going backwards though in getting the ground smooth since the disc is leaving the ground so unlevel. It sounds like I have tried to make the proper adjustments on the disc without much luck so as I suspected it sounds like my disc is just a pos.
> 
> With only having this disc and a cultimulcher to work with at this point what would be your method of trying to get the ground as smooth and level as possible for planting?


Go get you a chain harrow that you can hitch behind the disk with some chains... or spike tooth harrow gangs, if you can get them.

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

Tx Jim said:


> Do you have any facts to prove your statement? If one utilized hyd cylinder stops so each disk harrow penetrated the soil at the same depth & were pulled at the same ground speed I doubt one could tell much difference in the levelness of soil because of disk diameter.


Worn blades= less concavity (not as deep a "dish'' to the blade anymore, thus less throwing of dirt to the side by the blade. Plus, less cutting depth of course, though as you said, you can adjust that with depth stops on larger blades.

Sorta like the difference between cone blades that throw dirt a LOT and spherical blades which throw dirt less...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

Tx Jim said:


> (Snip)
> 
> I never pulled a 18'' moldboard but I saw no difference in the levelness of soil between a 14'' & 16'' moldboard IF PLOW WAS ADJUSTED CORRECTLY which some people don't know how to do.


This is true... 90% or more of EVERYTHING is in the ADJUSTMENTS...

The best place to start-- THE OPERATOR'S MANUAL!!!!

Once you've done it awhile, experience is the best guide... but, lacking that, or if all else fails-- READ THE FLIPPIN' BOOK!!!!

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

FarmerCline said:


> Well I tried a couple passes with the cultimulcher running the tines down without discing and it actually worked a lot better than I imagined it would.....left the ground a lot smoother than the disc. The trouble is this ground was already pretty unlevel from the past couple years of running this disc and the cultimulcher just couldn't move enough dirt around to fix that. If the ground hadn't been previously worked the past couple years with a disc that was ridging the cultimulcher probably would have worked pretty good.
> 
> I decided to call my fertilizer dealer to see if he had any old tillage equipment from years gone by that I could use. All he had left was an old IH disc.....I decided to get the disc and see if it did any better than mine. I hooked the railroad iron behind it as a drag and was fairly pleased with how it did.....a lot better and more level job than my Taylor Way. Didnt get much done before it started raining this evening......wasn't supposed to start until midnight.


Well, there IS such a thing as "plowing disks" and "finishing disks"... Though of course it's kinda subjective and a LOT of things can be overcome by how it's adjusted and operated, and of course the conditions and soils and stuff where it's being run.

"Plowing disks" are usually heavier and designed to run deeper, to break hard soil loose, cut sod or crop residue, and move the ground and break it up. Of course, in doing this, they usually make it pretty rough and, depending on design, conditions, adjustments, and operation, can leave the field in very rough condition with some pretty bad ridging or furrowing or both. "Plowing disks" usually have bigger diameter blades that can "get down in the soil deeper" and steeper gang angles, and blade spacings of 11 inches down to 9 inches. They're also usually heavier to help them penetrate the ground better.

"Finishing disks" are usually a little lighter so they stay on top of looser soil easier with less compaction and can run at a more consistent depth. The blade gang angles are usually lower to minimize throwing of soil to the sides, and blades are usually a little smaller (maybe 16-18 inch blades versus say 22-24's, though it depends on when it was manufactured, as larger blades are pretty much "standard" now). In the old days, they had "low concavity" and "high concavity" blades-- low concavity (flatter blade) was more for finishing work (throw less soil due to less "curve" to the blade) and high concavity blades were more for "plowing" with the disk (throw/flip the dirt more because the blade was "deeper" (more curved) for a given size, thus causing the soil to curl and "roll" further aside as it came off the blade, throwing it further). Of course there was also (and still is to some extent) scalloped (notched) blades for chopping up residue and helping to penetrate sod or hard ground, and smooth edge blades for general work.

Now, there's SOME cross-over in disk design, and some compromises and tradeoffs made that sort of balance out the disk's design to make it more a "jack of all trades"... IIRC Taylor Way disks have pretty heavy frames to help them penetrate and give them strength for "plowing" work... with steeper gang angles and deeper working depths, they'll move a lot of soil. With larger blades, you'll need depth stops to keep it from going to deep, especially in lighter, looser soils without a lot of residue and stuff. The 9 inch blade spacing on the front gang is a "happy medium" between the mainly "plowing disk" 11 inch blade spacing and the true "finishing disk" 7.5 in blade spacing all around.

If it were me, I'd look at the job it's doing and try to do a little detective work and make some adjustments to make things work the best I could. If you're trying to make one pass over the field and be done, that's probably not going to work-- especially if you're sinking the disk in to cut as deep as you can... the deeper you cut, the more it's going to furrow or ridge. If you need the ground worked deep, make one pass the same direction you'll eventually be cutting, raking, and baling your hay (so that you're not jumping any residual unevenness ridges or furrows) and disk it "deep as it'll go", then do a follow up pass ON THE BIAS (at an angle to the first cut, about 30 degree angle or so) with the disk SHALLOWED UP so that levels and smooths everything out. You might not be cutting but 2-3 inches deep or so...

Look at the blade gang angle-- the steepest angle possible will move the dirt the most and do the best job breaking up the ground, BUT, moving the dirt the most to either side WILL contribute to furrowing/ridging, ESPECIALLY when working deeply. If you need max angle for breaking up the ground, fine, but before making your second pass, reduce the blade gang angle to MINIMUM (or near minimum, as required for a good job) so that you're not throwing the soil SO far on subsequent passes so it laps over itself and forms a ridge, or leaving as deep/wide of a furrow on gang ends... Speed ALSO plays a role in how far the dirt is thrown-- the faster the disk is run, the farther the soil will be thrown as it leaves the blade-- the curve of the blade (or taper in the case of conical blades) imparts a sideways curving path (in combination with the gang angle) to the soil as it leaves the blade... the more speed, the "harder the throw" of the soil as it comes off the rolling blade. If the blade is turning slower, the less energy it's putting into the soil that it's "throwing" off the blade, and thus the less far it will be moved before it lands and stops moving.

Of course the leveling screw/handle is the first thing to check-- a disk running with too much down pressure on the rear gang and too much up pressure on the front gang is going to want to make some wicked ridges-- the front gang won't be cutting in as far or moving as much volume of soil AWAY from the center as the rear blades, with more weight transferred through the leveling spring onto the rear blades, will be moving TOWARD the center, thus causing ridging in the center, and potentially deep furrowing at the outer ends of the rear gangs (if not equipped with the little "furrow filler" blades on the outer ends of the gangs (modern disks). It can also cause a "double humped" ridge just inside the outer ends of the rear gangs as they cut too much soil from the outer end blades and throw it onto the disked swath, then on the next pass, the outer rear disk blade will follow along very close (or overlapping) this "trench" left by the rear outermost blade cutting the opposite direction, creating a "double hump" ridge looking like a cross-section letter "M"...

Likewise, a disk set with too much weight transferred onto the front gangs will throw too much soil away from the center of the disk because the front gangs will cut too deep compared to the rear gangs, which won't be moving enough soil back to fill in the large furrow left by the center end blades of the front gangs, and the disk will ridge much worse where the soil thrown by the outer end front blades is overlapped by dirt from the outer end front blade on the next pass-- the rear blades won't be able to bring that soil back out and level it out. If you're seeing a deep "V" furrow in the center of your disk behind the rear gangs, and a pronounced upside down "U" shaped ridge on either side of the front gangs (especially on subsquent passes where the edges overlap) your front gangs are running too deep-- raise the tongue with the leveling screw to transfer more weight to the rear gangs and "level it out". If you're seeing a pronounced center "upside down "U" shaped" ridge in the center of the disk, possibly with a noticeable double-arches type "M" looking ridge/furrow/ridge where the back outside end blades are abutting from one pass to the next, you have too much pressure on your rear gangs-- turn the leveling screw to lower the tongue and put more pressure on the front gangs and level it out.

There IS NO "set it and forget it" when it comes to leveling a disk-- that's why they have a LEVELING SCREW... my stupid old Ford disk didn't have a leveling screw-- you had to take out two bolts and move a "stop" up and down in a pocket, with both of them drilled with a mess of overlapping holes-- move it a bit and find a couple holes that line up, shove the bolts back in, and tighten it down... total PITA when it came to doing leveling "finish work" on flat ground-- but we ran mostly on beds disking out stalks in the fall and incorporating Trifluralin on cotton ground in the spring, and disking beds is a little different animal anyway compared to flatland disking... BASICALLY, ever time you take the disk to the field YOU SHOULD LEVEL IT... make a couple passes, judge the job it's doing, and then adjust appropriately, and REPEAT... tweak it til it's doing the job you want...

Your last pass should be MUCH shallower than earlier passes-- sometimes, depending on the hardness of your soil or sod, and how deep and well you want it "worked up" you might have to disk multiple times-- each time you disk, the disk will want to cut a little deeper than the previous pass, especially in harder ground or sod... BUT, the deeper the disk goes, the MORE it will compound the ridging/furrowing problem-- minimize it by working at an ANGLE (on the bias) to the first pass-- generally 30 degrees to either the left or right... this will keep the ridges and furrows from getting worse with each subsequent pass. Once you've got it worked deep enough, SHALLOW UP on "finishing" passes to crumble and level the soil surface, and, if at all possible, pull a heavy drag (RR iron, lite pole, even channel iron will work, tires, etc) or a chain-link harrow (or drag harrow gangs) to further level the soil behind the disk. Set gang angles to minimum, disk only as deep as needed to flatten out the ridges and fill the furrows, NOT maximum depth... use cylinder stops or set the 3 point control as required to hold the disk at a shallow depth. Slow down if the soil is still being thrown too far...

That's just the general gist of it... Best of luck and hope this helps!

Later! OL J R


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## swmnhay

stack em up said:


> Screw it. You're right, I'm wrong. This site isn't worth getting into a pissing match, so I'm done.


yea he turns everything into a pissing match it seems..Big difference in ways to discuss something,I'll take your way any day over his.


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## somedevildawg

One of them sunflower units is what ya need....with the Rollin baskets on the back, I need to borrow it when you get finished with it


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## Lewis Ranch

The best tillage tool I've seen yet is a Great Plains turbo max. Single pass that thing left a perfect seedbed, they make them small as 8' and although pricey it eliminates 3-5 passes with finishing disc cultivator and a couple harrow passes. A friend of mine has been pulling a 35' and I'll be buying one before long but not quite that big.

http://www.greatplainsag.com/en/products/418/turbo-max®


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## Teslan

Lewis Ranch said:


> The best tillage tool I've seen yet is a Great Plains turbo max. Single pass that thing left a perfect seedbed, they make them small as 8' and although pricey it eliminates 3-5 passes with finishing disc cultivator and a couple harrow passes. A friend of mine has been pulling a 35' and I'll be buying one before long but not quite that big.
> 
> http://www.greatplainsag.com/en/products/418/turbo-max®


do you know if it can break up sod fairly well? I've heard great things about A similar thing from Lemken


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## Lewis Ranch

Adjust the gangs and it does a great job burying trash. Had one field I sprayed roundup on weeds and grass were boot top to waist high and i was very pleased with the finish.

Edit: if you'll watch my sprigging video you can see the ground in which the turbo max was pulled.


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## FarmerCline

Lewis Ranch said:


> The best tillage tool I've seen yet is a Great Plains turbo max. Single pass that thing left a perfect seedbed, they make them small as 8' and although pricey it eliminates 3-5 passes with finishing disc cultivator and a couple harrow passes. A friend of mine has been pulling a 35' and I'll be buying one before long but not quite that big.
> http://www.greatplainsag.com/en/products/418/turbo-max®


 Yep I like the looks of the Turbo Max but I was thinking they were more of a minimum tillage implement though and not designed for working up plowed ground. Do you know if it would work well in ground that has been chisel plowed and needs leveled out?


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## Lewis Ranch

FarmerCline said:


> Yep I like the looks of the Turbo Max but I was thinking they were more of a minimum tillage implement though and not designed for working up plowed ground. Do you know if it would work well in ground that has been chisel plowed and needs leveled out?


With the gangs straight i would think it would do an exelent job as well but I haven't personally seen that. I don't see any need in pulling a chisel if you have the turbo max to pull across the ground. They want 25k for a 10' model but if I can eliminate 3-5 passes across the ground for a normal planting what is that worth $$ wise. My teff ground I finally got worked up and ready to plant but it took me 7 trips across the field to get it in near perfect shape and if I can find a cultimulcher I'll add one more to that. With my current equipment I chiseled, disced 3 times pulled the finishing cultivator then harrowed twice.


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## endrow

As hard as it goes this is a very worthwhile topic. When I was younger and did a lot of custom farming, it was so depressing to have to cut beans or even make hay on a farm where someone had not adjusted to disc harrow properly and had to farm full of disc ridges. A dead furrow or a deep disc Ridge is hard to get rid of in our ground. I know sometime people had the Disc set properly but then when they went to go over to second time they drove in the same tracks and that will really cause the disc to wallow. If we had to disk second time we always offset by 30% and that seemed to work everything shut. In these parts you very seldom see a disc without a culti Packer behind it. I am so glad tillage is something we gave up many years ago.Cline is correct the field should be smooth and level before transitioning to no-till........


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## Vol

Orchard6 said:


> We use an Unverferth Perfecta II for leveling up fields around here. It works real good and the rolling baskets make for a nice seed bed.


Mike Harris(NDVA Hayman) spoke highly of Unverferth Perfecta with the rolling basket for smoothing up ground. They look like they would do the job.

Hayden if you lived nearby we would just buy one and split the costs.....a fella hates to fork out the green when its something that you don't use often.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow

Which device on that tool does the leveling,is it that single tooth bar in front of the rolling basket. I would also think that would have to be clean tillage that tool would not go through crop residual


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## FarmerCline

Lewis Ranch said:


> With the gangs straight i would think it would do an exelent job as well but I haven't personally seen that. I don't see any need in pulling a chisel if you have the turbo max to pull across the ground. They want 25k for a 10' model but if I can eliminate 3-5 passes across the ground for a normal planting what is that worth $$ wise. My teff ground I finally got worked up and ready to plant but it took me 7 trips across the field to get it in near perfect shape and if I can find a cultimulcher I'll add one more to that. With my current equipment I chiseled, disced 3 times pulled the finishing cultivator then harrowed twice.


 This ground I'm working up needed to be chiseled deep to break up some compaction. The ground was also rough and uneven from previous years tillage so a lot of dirt needed to be moved around to get it smooth.....not sure how a turbo max would have worked in that situation. I think if the ground is in good shape a pass with the turbo max would work well without any other tillage.

In your sprigging video was that just one trip across the field with the turbo max and how deep was it running? Very nice looking seedbed.


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## FarmerCline

Vol said:


> Mike Harris(NDVA Hayman) spoke highly of Unverferth Perfecta with the rolling basket for smoothing up ground. They look like they would do the job.
> 
> Hayden if you lived nearby we would just buy one and split the costs.....a fella hates to fork out the green when its something that you don't use often.
> 
> Regards, Mike


 Yep, too bad we don't live a little closer......I know what you mean about spending a lot of money on something you don't use that often.....that is it what has kept me from buying better tillage equipment so far. But then every time I use what I have I get frustrated and wish I had bought something that would do a better job.

This particular place I'm trying to get worked up I intend on keeping it no till from now on as it is very erosion prone.....but I have to get it smooth enough first.


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## Vol

I was surprised at how those U Perfecta II's were priced on T-house....very reasonable compared to others.

Regards, Mike


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## Lewis Ranch

FarmerCline said:


> This ground I'm working up needed to be chiseled deep to break up some compaction. The ground was also rough and uneven from previous years tillage so a lot of dirt needed to be moved around to get it smooth.....not sure how a turbo max would have worked in that situation. I think if the ground is in good shape a pass with the turbo max would work well without any other tillage.
> 
> In your sprigging video was that just one trip across the field with the turbo max and how deep was it running? Very nice looking seedbed.


Yes sir single pass. That's where a nice set of rippers comes in. I know what you mean about not spending money on tillage equipment, I've got the minimum and not very nice equipment but I've worked more ground this year than I have in the last 4 at a whole 60 acres.


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## Gearclash

Just an observation over the years. A disc will tend to aggravate whatever gross unevenness problem exists in a field. A field cultivator is a great tool to level with. After that a drag harrow.


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## Orchard6

endrow said:


> Which device on that tool does the leveling,is it that single tooth bar in front of the rolling basket. I would also think that would have to be clean tillage that tool would not go through crop residual


If you're referring to the Perfecta, no it won't go thru much in the line crop residue, maybe bean stubble but that's about it. You still need to disc ahead of it but I've found that just one pass with a disc after plowing and a pass with the perfecta will leave the ground much more level and leaves a good seed bed unless you have some gnarly clay or other tough ground conditions.


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## bool

I gave up on discing several times and got a power harrow. One pass and you're done.

Roger


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## hillside hay

I'm hoping to get a K line speed disk this fall and sell the moldboard plow.18k. Saw it work in sod and was really impressed. To maintain 10mph I have to drop to an 8 ft implement. I've been doing deep tillage with roots lately so I just need to clean off the surface for good stands. As far as leveling goes. Currently, I pull spring tooth harrows right bend the disk for two passes. Then I drop those and pull a 10" C channel legs down. Flip it over flat for final pass. And snowmobilers wonder why I'm pissed off at them. That's a lot of time and fuel spent on $120 ton hay.


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## paoutdoorsman

This is a great topic. I would like to get several of my fields much more level before the next stand of hay is planted. In general they are relatively level, but years of strip farming has left remains of dead furrow depressions from one end to the other in several locations across each field. What is the best way to level and eliminate these?


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## IH 1586

paoutdoorsman said:


> This is a great topic. I would like to get several of my fields much more level before the next stand of hay is planted. In general they are relatively level, but years of strip farming has left remains of dead furrow depressions from one end to the other in several locations across each field. What is the best way to level and eliminate these?


I would utilize some of the tips that I have mentioned above. I would assume you are moldboard plowing? Not knowing what pieces you have I can't give specifics but you want to work the field at an angle or straight across to move as much dirt as possible to fill in the depressions. Not knowing how deep they are it may take many passes til you are satisfied with the results. You always want to finish a field in the same direction as you will be planting it.

I have a field that I took back after many years of my cousin planting corn on it. They chisel it and ran over with the mulch finishers and always in the same direction. I plowed, went length wise and then width wise with discs followed by width wise then length wise with the drags packed planted and packed again. Looked good but when you drive width wise on it you can feel the depressions I should have spent more time with the drags. Different field different renter planted many years in corn same prep for corn chisel and and mulch finishers but he spends more time working the field. I did same procedure as above and it is smooth. Another thing that makes a difference is the size of your equipment. It is hard to get a nice finish if your equipment is to big for tractor or vise versa.


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## Wethay

When plowing in lands one tends to place the dead furrow where the back furrow was last time. Around here used to be a land plane was a usual sight.


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## hillside hay

Only time I leave a dead furrow is if I mean it to carry water. Figure I might as well ditch it while plowing rather than come back afterwards.


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