# Our next president Hillary Clinton and her lies



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

1. She claims that in Bosnia in 1996: "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
A LIE. AN ATTEMPT TO STEAL VALOR FROM COMBAT SOLDIERS

2. She states she got her name "Hillary" from being named after Sir Edmund Hillary. For those who dont know, Sir Edmund Hillary was the first person to climb Mt Everest as well as other notable accomplisments.

A LIE. HILLARY CLINTON WAS BORN LONG BEFORE SIR EDMUND HILLARY WAS A KNOWN MOUNTAIN CLIMBER

3. Hillary Clinton said her of her daughter Chelsea: "She said that Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9/11 and happened to duck into a coffee shop when the airplanes hit. She said that this move saved Chelsea's life.

ANOTHER LIE: "Chelsea told Talk magazine that she was in a friend's apartment four miles from ground zero when the first plane hit. Her friend called her, waking her up, and told her to turn on the TV. On television, she saw the second plane hit, disproving Hillary's claim that "she heard the plane hit. She heard it. She did."

So theres your next presidential nominee from the democrat party.

How do these people get away with these lies and even be considered for town dogcatcher, let alone president???


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Simple. The uninformed don't care. The informed libs know they are gonna get lots of handouts. Whether welfare, food atamps, or carbon credits.

Most do not think for themselves.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I have no idea....but in the world of pop culture we find ourselves living in, as proven in years past, anything is possible......numerous examples, it's just amazing to me every time I see it. And it happens in the world of politics all the time at all levels....it's pathetic


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Have good and decent men and women like Romney or Walker or other conservatives been caught in these kinds of repeated lies, stolen valor and self aggrandizement?
Why do democrats and liberals get to tell these whoppers and still get to run for president? 
This woman is not only leading in the polls, but she's 10-20 points ahead of all republican challengers.

WTF?


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

She has zero qualifications. Newt probably called it right.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not that different from Brian Williams and some of his whoppers:

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/where-s-williams-find-brian-these-7-historical-events


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> Simple. The uninformed don't care. The informed libs know they are gonna get lots of handouts. Whether welfare, food atamps, or carbon credits.
> 
> Most do not think for themselves.


Sadly, once a theory turns into a belief, it automatically undermines opposition to itself. Belief is the end of logic.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The truth of the entire matter is that 65% of Americans LIE on a daily basis.....it is a accepted part of life for them and goes without notice.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Not that different from Brian Williams and some of his whoppers:
> 
> http://www.mrctv.org/blog/where-s-williams-find-brian-these-7-historical-events


But Brian Williams isn't the leader of the free world. He's just a glorified TelePrompter jockey 
Big difference. 
Although one could argue Obummer is not much more than a glorified TelePrompTer jockey, too. LOL


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## Bazooka (Sep 17, 2013)

had a guy tell me one time that if you tell a lie and get away with it, then it is actually a half truth. Could be the #1 rule for politicians?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> The truth of the entire matter is that 65% of Americans LIE on a daily basis.....it is a accepted part of life for them and goes without notice.
> 
> Regards, Mike


IDK, wonder when that stat was compiled.....seems like 85% to me. But 65% probably lie so much they believe their own lies......terrible any way it works out


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Vol said:


> The truth of the entire matter is that 65% of Americans LIE on a daily basis.....it is a accepted part of life for them and goes without notice.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I couldn't agree more. I believe parents pass that on to their children.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The lies are obvious. Their lies have been exposed.
Can't believe these liberal talking heads or the lady I saw in her Prius with the bumper sticker "I'm ready for Hillary" can support someone who's claim to fame is being married to Bill Clinton. 
Everyone knows the woman who got appointed to secy of state as a return favor for helping Obama get elected in 2012.
The woman is a clown.

I can't believe this is where we're at.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Don't need no more Clintons or another Bush family member for that matter. Should also have term limits of 10 years total in DC in any capacity and then you are out for life with no pension and lifetime insurance benefits. Also the bastards should have to live under the laws they pass just like any other citizen instead of being exempt as a member of the ruling class. I really think 10 years total in Washington is enough so if you have served say 3 terms as a congressman or one term as a senator you would only be eligible for one term as president. You should also not be able to run for one office while holding down another. As for Hillary lying if she said there were 7 days in a week I would have to go get a calendar and count them off to make sure. As for Brian Williams looks like he should be getting what's coming to him but I'm sure the liberals will forgive and forget. If Rush or Hannity had told the lies that Williams told the leftist press and pricks like Bill Maher would be calling for their nuts on the chopping block.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

How about Dan Rathers lies about George Bush? 
Bush WAS an F-104 pilot. A tough plane to fly, too. 
Dan Rather was later given an award.

These liberals live in false narrative realities. Yet if a conservative or a republican gets caught in a lie, they are finished. 
"hands up, don't shoot!" Is a complete fabrication.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I see Old Hillary had a secret email acct. when she was Sec.of St. More hot water of her. I'am sure there's info that she doesn't want us to see or here about. and the Money that her foundation took from foreign countries, Ya , She will fit right in the white house . But maybe that is the email acct. that billy used to buy airline tickets for his GFs to pervert Island


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, Hillarys emails? 
They'll be accidentally destroyed, like Lois Lerners from the IRS.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I really don't want to give her any credit but she does a whale of a job standing in front of a TV Telling bold face lies in a pant suit and not have 1 bit of remorse while telling the lies.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Email loss is a problem down there for years, it seems maybe its a virus that is spreading to all politicians computers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Rush, I'm assuming he's just ignorant and not malicious in a lot of what he says but its still untruths! Some of it is cartoonish. You get the same over-the-top crazy for their "cause" folks on liberal platforms too but they are usually the guest not the host.



cornshucker said:


> If Rush or Hannity had told the lies that Williams


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Rush, I'm assuming he's just ignorant and not malicious in a lot of what he says but its still untruths! Some of it is cartoonish. You get the same over-the-top crazy for their "cause" folks on liberal platforms too but they are usually the guest not the host.


Slowzuki, I'm at the point where I kind of feel sorry for you. You seem like a nice person and a fellow farmer, but you cant see the forest through the trees.
I look at this Iran/Israel crap, leaving Iraq/Afghanistan before the job was done, the 18 trillion in debt, our loss of respect in the world, IRS scandal, 5 million illegal immigrants now legal and I can barely face my children.
My kids are royally screwed. They will be indoctrinated in liberalism at every level of education- thinking our country is one founded by horrible people. They will be taxed into oblivion. My son may be drafted to fight in WW III.
Obama's going to leave that mess for the next president and the survivors of his failed policies to deal with. I'm sure he and his handlers will have no problem blaming the next president for everything that goes wrong after the wake of destruction he leaves us with. After all, he blamed his predecessors for everything thats wrong now.
The mans a narcissist. He cant blame himself for anything.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

+1 JD3430 well said


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Name any administration ever that has not blamed the one prior for all of society's ills. Not that's it's relevant to slowzuki pointing out that Rush is a crackpot.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Some of them had a good point.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Name any administration ever that has not blamed the one prior for all of society's ills. Not that's it's relevant to slowzuki pointing out that Rush is a crackpot.


None I have ever seen in the past even approaches this administration. 
You liberals might think Rush is a crackpot, but I think he pretty much nails it on a daily basis. 
It doesn't matter much any more. It's almost silly now. We won't even be able to pay the interest on the 18 trillion. 
Obama = complete failure. His next 2 years will make the last 6 years look like a Cub Scout meeting.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

It's going to take more than a good president, to fix the mess the Obama has made , It's going to take the A team. Obama could destroy a crowbar in a sand pile. I actually feel sorry for the republican that becomes the next president if we have a country left for them to be the president of in 2 yrs


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Snowball, its exactly how liberals felt after being handed the reigns after Bush. Its amazing the democratic system works at all with the way each group inherits the last group pile of problems and spends the whole time assigning blame to the other group. It seems to be getting increasingly nasty too in the rhetoric.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Snowball, its exactly how liberals felt after being handed the reigns after Bush. Its amazing the democratic system works at all with the way each group inherits the last group pile of problems and spends the whole time assigning blame to the other group. It seems to be getting increasingly nasty too in the rhetoric.


That is the problem. The democratic system does not work.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Iran / Israel - what is the issue? A hated republican invites a powerful/pain in the ass US ally to address folks but with a snub to the president. The presidents plan - open dialog with Iran. Israel plan, make big tough guy stance leading up to elections to get elected, worry about diplomatic repair later. The US isn't going to engage in war with Iran right now to slow down their nuke program. Iran knows that. Republicans know that. Russia knows that. Israel knows that. International community knows that. Launching 50 tomahawks into Iran and messing up a few above ground facilities isn't going to achieve much except generate footage of dead kids Iran can loop on all their state TV to drum up anti-US support.

Leaving Iraq/Afghanistan before job is done. What was the job in Iraq in the first place? What would a completed job look like? Which administration dismantled the Iraq military before there was a mature / robust organization to replace it? What was a complete job in Afghanistan? Osama was killed. You think you can convert the rest of the country into a stable western democracy or even authoritarian regime with central government friendly to the west in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years realistically? At what cost? The liberal in me wants to help those people that live there yes, but the conservative in me says look at the Afghanistan operations books, this budget is never gonna balance.



JD3430 said:


> Slowzuki, I'm at the point where I kind of feel sorry for you. You seem like a nice person and a fellow farmer, but you cant see the forest through the trees.
> I look at this Iran/Israel crap, leaving Iraq/Afghanistan before the job was done, the 18 trillion in debt, our loss of respect in the world, IRS scandal, 5 million illegal immigrants now legal and I can barely face my children.
> My kids are royally screwed. They will be indoctrinated in liberalism at every level of education- thinking our country is one founded by horrible people. They will be taxed into oblivion. My son may be drafted to fight in WW III.
> Obama's going to leave that mess for the next president and the survivors of his failed policies to deal with. I'm sure he and his handlers will have no problem blaming the next president for everything that goes wrong after the wake of destruction he leaves us with. After all, he blamed his predecessors for everything thats wrong now.
> The mans a narcissist. He cant blame himself for anything.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It's easy to armchair quarterback, hindsight is always 20/20......

It takes a leader to lead......perhaps if we had a leader something would get done about Iran......the humanitarian in me wants to see that before something really crazy happens. I have grandchildren that have to make their way in this world. Lets face it, if the U.S. isn't going to be the lead dog....no other country will even think about it, that's the way it always is.

Isn't it amazing what 6 years can do when the foot is off the gas......time to huddle up and regroup, there will be more blood shed in the future, of that we can be sure. 
Whenever someone comes up with a solution, clue me in.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Slowzuki,

When bush left office, unemployment was under 5%. We haven't been under 6% in 6+ years. We were under 9 trillion in debt, now over 18 trillion.
I never heard bush blame Clinton for all the things clinton screwed up to the magnitude that Obama blamed Bush. In fact, Bush was far better at taking responsibility. Obama won't take responsibility for ANYTHING. 
No president put us trillions more in debt than all previous presidents combined than Obama. Where did the money go??? 
Less people in its workforce since WWII under Obama. People just giving up and retiring or going on welfare in the millions because there's little or no work. 
More people on food stamps than in the history of the USA under Obama.
Record low recession recovery under Obama. Annual Growth stuck in the 2-2.5% range, even with record low interest rates and 90 billion printed EACH MONTH by the treasury for years our economy is still below average. 
A willful ignorance of foreign attacks by Iran of 4 other countries, Russia invading Ukraine. Obama does nothing. 
An IRS scandal, that under a republican president, would have resulted in violence in the streets. Obamas silence is deafening while our own IRS targets groups that run legitimate organizations which dislike Obama.

All this presidents focus is on political correctness, gays (after he was against gay marriage), women & minorities in the workplace, taking guns from law abiding citizens, taxing the successful and the hard working and giving the proceeds to people who won't work. 
I could go on and on slowzuki, but I don't want to bore the people in this thread who are actually informed of what's going on and the circling of the drain this president has caused our country to endure for the last 6 years.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> It's easy to armchair quarterback, hindsight is always 20/20......
> It takes a leader to lead......perhaps if we had a leader something would get done about Iran......the humanitarian in me wants to see that before something really crazy happens. I have grandchildren that have to make their way in this world. Lets face it, if the U.S. isn't going to be the lead dog....no other country will even think about it, that's the way it always is.
> Isn't it amazing what 6 years can do when the foot is off the gas......time to huddle up and regroup, there will be more blood shed in the future, of that we can be sure.
> Whenever someone comes up with a solution, clue me in.....


We had a leader in town yesterday, he spoke to congress and went back to his country.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> That is the problem. The democratic system does not work.


It's a broken system for sure, because it's run by a corrupt organization that does not have its citizens best interests in mind. 
If it were led correctly, it would be better than any other system of government. 
Leadership starts at the top. We need a leader, desperately.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

JD 3430 You do a good job of posting what I think and feel , keep up the good work." May the Force BE With You"


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> It's a broken system for sure, because it's run by a corrupt organization that does not have its citizens best interests in mind.
> If it were led correctly, it would be better than any other system of government.
> Leadership starts at the top. We need a leader, desperately.


Yes, but where would that leader lead us? A single "leader" is typically called a dictator by some and a messiah by others. Fortunately, our form of government, with it's checks and balances, protects us from both. It's messy but it seems to work.If a leader is the simple solution to a very complex problem, he must be able to lead both of the opposing sides to the goal. Due to the increasing polarity in the electorate this will be very difficult to do. The liberals in the democrat party got rid of the Southern Conservative Democrats some years back as they pulled the party further to the left. The far right-wing of the republican party is trying to do the same thing. All that does is divide us further and cause more problems for "leadership". How do you bridge the chasm in the middle? Pushed to it's extremes the inevitable result is violence....Another simple solution to a complex problem and history is littered with examples of the failures with very few examples of success.

Leadership IS necessary, but that leader should be able to inspire other leaders, who inspire other leaders, and so, on to move the country, as a whole, into the future. You need many leaders all pulling in the same direction. What direction is that, and who do you think can do it?


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

well the president (If you can refer to him as that ) is governing this country like he is a dictator , He veto's anything that he doesn't personally like . He use's executive order to ram though what ever he wants , he doesn't care what is best or what the people of the us want it's all about what he wants That is How a dictator runs things isn't it ??? It was posted earlier " That a Real LEADER Spoke In Front Of Congress Yesterday How very true that statement is He is a LEADER it a shame he had to go by to Israel . I our leader wouldn't even listen to his speech , Probably had a 10 am. Tee off time , after all the golf game is more important


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

So just to be clear, conservatives feel the downturn in the economy is 100% Obama's fault and there is no lag time, the economy is immediately tied to any and every choice he made? The mistakes the banks made his fault too? Do they feel the european/global economic crisis was his fault as well?

RE Iran, much of the populace is pro-western or at least wants some western things, not that much different than Turkey for example. Their government likes to spout off about the US to distract populace from their own internal problems. Foreign attacks by Iran on 4 countries? Syria? So is the US and everyone else in the area fighting ISIS. Iraq? They were at war for a few years with Iraq you recall, as was the US. They probably have more justification to attack Iraq than anyone. They are currently trying the other route, aiding against ISIS to gain influence. Lebanon, yes ok they are sponsoring activity and sending "advisors", activities the US also engages in to further its interests in a region. So you attack them from... Saudi maybe? Disrupt world trade. Likely provoke massive Russian involvement in Iran. Another unwinable war, with no clear purpose, great.

RE Russia, Ukraine is near the end of the NATO supply line while Russia is next door. The US and NATO is in no position to exercise military strength. This is not a little terrorist group or back water nation, its a country looking for any excuse to become openly involved in the fighting in Ukraine. NATO can't deploy a full scale force, it would be months, if not years, Ukraine would be lost to Russia before NATO could stop the momentum. Russian forces are already sitting on the border and located inside Ukraine, in territory that is sympathetic to their presence.

RE IRS scandal, I haven't followed the US issue, but our conservative government here is steering our tax agency to revoke charitable status for dozens of so called liberal minded charities. The conservative angled charities have barely been touched. I'm assuming its along the same vein in reverse there.



JD3430 said:


> Slowzuki,
> 
> When bush left office, unemployment was under 5%. We haven't been under 6% in 6+ years. We were under 9 trillion in debt, now over 18 trillion.
> I never heard bush blame Clinton for all the things clinton screwed up to the magnitude that Obama blamed Bush. In fact, Bush was far better at taking responsibility. Obama won't take responsibility for ANYTHING.
> ...


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

snowball said:


> well the president (If you can refer to him as that ) is governing this country like he is a dictator , He veto's anything that he doesn't personally like . He use's executive order to ram though what ever he wants , he doesn't care what is best or what the people of the us want it's all about what he wants That is How a dictator runs things isn't it ??? It was posted earlier " That a Real LEADER Spoke In Front Of Congress Yesterday How very true that statement is He is a LEADER it a shame he had to go by to Israel . I our leader wouldn't even listen to his speech , Probably had a 10 am. Tee off time , after all the golf game is more important


Here's the trouble. We have complete government stagnation and gridlock and nothing ever gets done. Can't even pass a spending bill because both sides want to tie other things to it. In the gridlock situation, the only way things are only ever going to happen is executive order. (I guess the friendship fairy could visit congress but that seems unlikely). So the President (he's your president too whether you want to call him that) actually tries to do something via executive order. If the things he did this way were things that you liked, you'd call it taking charge. Leading. But because you don't like them (and I'm not saying that I do like them), it, in your view, ceases to become leadership. It doesn't work that way.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I guess (8350 Hi Tech ) we have 2 different idea's of the term "Leadership " I'll just leave it at that.... A leader can unite people not divide them


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

snowball said:


> I guess (8350 Hi Tech ) we have 2 different idea's of the term "Leadership " I'll just leave it at that.... A leader can unite people not divide them


Good luck uniting the opposite isles in congress. I'll just refer you to miike120's post about division.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Here's the trouble. We have complete government stagnation and gridlock and nothing ever gets done. Can't even pass a spending bill because both sides want to tie other things to it. In the gridlock situation, the only way things are only ever going to happen is executive order. (I guess the friendship fairy could visit congress but that seems unlikely). So the President (he's your president too whether you want to call him that) actually tries to do something via executive order. If the things he did this way were things that you liked, you'd call it taking charge. Leading. But because you don't like them (and I'm not saying that I do like them), it, in your view, ceases to become leadership. It doesn't work that way.


If you call allowing 5 million illegal aliens in our already fiscally bankrupt country a popular form of leadership, then yeah, I guess. Lol
If you call buying up bullets to create shortages, sure. If you call passing Obama care under the lie "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", then I guess Obamas actions are just great!! 
See that's the problem with Obama, you say executive orders is getting things done. then what is it called when congress brings a very popular bill, like Keyston pipeline, to our little king obama and he vetoes it??? Isn't that called gridlock, just as you described??? 
How about when your beloved king Obama sends his top cop Holder to a town to do anything he can to find the white cop guilty for killing the black thug and holder comes home with nothing? Waste of taxpayer money?
How about the IRS being used by Obama to intimidate conservatives? No problem with that, right?
Just want to make sure you're saying same thing when it gets used against your liberal buddies. 

Dude, all I can say is this: wait until you' move out of your parents house, get married and have kids. Look us up after that happens. I'll bet you anything you won't be an Obama loving liberal anymore. Guaranteed.
I used to love Bill Clinton till I got married, had kids and took responsibility for my actions. Now I know he's a scumbag.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Good luck uniting the opposite isles in congress. I'll just refer you to miike120's post about division.


Here's the problem with your definition of "Uniting": 
Your definition of "uniting" is when republicans capitulate to Reid, Pelosi, or Obama.
Otherwise, it's "division" to you.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Well JD 3430 You see what has happened , I agree with you . But Like usual a democrat has run interference for another dem. This thread started about the Shady Lady ( I use the word lady very lousily here) Hillary the lair, then some where along the way George Bush get's drug into this thread , then congress get's blamed ?? That is the only way the liberals know how to answer anything is " Blame Bush & congress . George has been gone for 6yrs the congress has been under dem control since 06 until recently,And Hillary is deleting emails as we post !! what a mess


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Dude, all I can say is this: wait until you' move out of your parents house, get married and have kids. Look us up after that happens. I'll bet you anything you won't be an Obama loving liberal anymore. Guaranteed.
> I used to love Bill Clinton till I got married, had kids and took responsibility for my actions. Now I know he's a scumbag.


Thanks for reminding me why I quit participating in these discussions. You were on a pretty good roll of listing things that I actually agree with (seeing as I'm a really a centrist) but then you had resort to your favorite style of "argument", making inferences and insults. I don't need this. I'm out.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The illegal aliens were there all ready and form a major component of US economy. Even Jeb has a softish stance on illegals.

Buying bullets to create shortages? More like hoarders creating shortages. No different the the folks cleaning out all the milk and bread at the grocery before a storm.

Keystone, maybe strictly political move but I think there are also a fair number of republicans with issues related to the need for expropriation of land along the route given US oil production is at an all time high. Cheaper Canadian oil is also not in the interest of all US oil companies at this time. I'm sure it will be built eventually though.

If the IRS is unfairly targeting one political party over another, thats wrong, its supposed to be a civil service. Are they targeting any other political charities?



JD3430 said:


> If you call allowing 5 million illegal aliens in our already fiscally bankrupt country a popular form of leadership, then yeah, I guess. Lol
> If you call buying up bullets to create shortages, sure. If you call passing Obama care under the lie "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", then I guess Obamas actions are just great!!
> See that's the problem with Obama, you say executive orders is getting things done. then what is it called when congress brings a very popular bill, like Keyston pipeline, to our little king obama and he vetoes it??? Isn't that called gridlock, just as you described???
> How about when your beloved king Obama sends his top cop Holder to a town to do anything he can to find the white cop guilty for killing the black thug and holder comes home with nothing? Waste of taxpayer money?
> ...


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

JD3430 A person with a liberal mindset and a cow stuck in the mud are very similar. Neither thought things out beforehand. The cow thinks the farmer will surely come to her rescue because he feeds and shelters her. The liberal feels the same way about the government. Both the cow and the liberal get in so deep because of their greed that they sit paralysed waiting to be bailed out by someone. Eventually along comes someone who takes pity and saves their ass, but neither is wise enough to realize it.

I have been there, done that...........but really would have rather just shot the cow, because they never learn from their mistakes.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

A good leader can bring different sides together. It has happenned before and hopefully will again. A good leader has tact. And charisma. And truly cares about ALL constituents.

A good leader does not try to divide and create hatred between different groups.

A true leader when given the opportunity rises to the occasion.

The current potus carries none of these traits. Quite the opposite.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> The illegal aliens were there all ready and form a major component of US economy. * Even Jeb has a softish stance on illegals.*


That's why I hopefully will never be forced to vote for him. Hes not a republican and in no way even close to a conservative. Hes not even a dumbocrat. He's a liberal with a "R" before his name.



> Buying bullets to create shortages? More like hoarders creating shortages. No different the the folks cleaning out all the milk and bread at the grocery before a storm.
> 
> Keystone, maybe strictly political move but I think there are also a fair number of republicans with issues related to the need for expropriation of land along the route given US oil production is at an all time high. Cheaper Canadian oil is also not in the interest of all US oil companies at this time. I'm sure it will be built eventually though.
> 
> If the IRS is unfairly targeting one political party over another, thats wrong, its supposed to be a civil service. Are they targeting any other political charities?


Nope, just conservative or tea party groups.
Now that you know that, do you think a little differently of our liberal influenced IRS being used to eliminate opposition voices from conservative groups?
How would you like to be harrassed, fined and have your assets siezed for voicing opposition to a political party?
I'm a conservative by the way, not a republican.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> A good leader can bring different sides together. It has happenned before and hopefully will again. A good leader has tact. And charisma. And truly cares about ALL constituents.
> 
> A good leader does not try to divide and create hatred between different groups.
> 
> ...


Reagan did it. He worked with dumbocrat speaker Tip O'Neill. They got things done.
Republicans didnt have to cave to Chicago style strongarm tactics, either.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

There isn't even all that much that really need to get done. Just quit spending so much money. And quit making things worth for the rest of us that are prodictive taxpayers.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Very true.
I think 80% of our country's ills are economic. If people were employed and had better incomes and job security, we'd all be better off. Obama and the liberals make employers feel uneasy....they don't want to hire people when there's economic insecurity.
The liberals want to accomplish their redistributionist utopia by taxing the productive and giving it to the lazy to achieve their fantasy society.

In the history of the world, it has never worked and it never will.

Ever read the story of the pilgrims led by William Bradford? Very informative.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

As long as teams of communications consultants keep running the scripts and mud slinging (both sides) there isn't gonna be much bridge building. The bridge builders won't get anywhere near the job. I myself am not a huge fan of Hilary. The republicans should have a cake walk if they can front a moderate candidate.

Carcajou, not all liberals want a nanny state. Not all liberals want government control of all services. Odd enough in our province, the liberal party built public/private partnership highways with user tolls, the conservatives took the tolls off and paid the private company out of tax dollars, and the NDP (that would be like a very left liberal party for US folks) has positioned itself as the fiscally responsible party in the province with a leader who turned their nearly bankrupt party finances around.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> As long as teams of communications consultants keep running the scripts and mud slinging (both sides) there isn't gonna be much bridge building. The bridge builders won't get anywhere near the job. I myself am not a huge fan of Hilary. The republicans should have a cake walk if they can front a moderate candidate.
> 
> Carcajou, not all liberals want a nanny state. Not all liberals want government control of all services. Odd enough in our province, the liberal party built public/private partnership highways with user tolls, the conservatives took the tolls off and paid the private company out of tax dollars, and the NDP (that would be like a very left liberal party for US folks) has positioned itself as the fiscally responsible party in the province with a leader who turned their nearly bankrupt party finances around.


Here our liberals are thieves. Good for you yours are better.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

JD I know you think liberals want to tax hard workers but its not their goal.

Yes, some folks you would call liberal, folks an average liberal might call communist, want a tax structure that flattens everyone to the same income level. Most liberals (and I'd say all conservatives) understand that this impedes drive, discourages hard work and productivity. Its I think what you're talking about.

More mainstream liberal folk lately especially since the bank meltdowns, focus on the struggle between capital and labour, the people that make money by having money, and the people that make money by working for it. Very few people that make money by honestly working for it are in the range of folks liberals want to tax. Those are the people liberals want to help. I know most liberals don't understand exactly how to achieve this and what the secondary and overall effects are but neither do most conservatives. Both sides have a pretty simplistic view of how money flows around in the economy.

Complex things don't sell well to voters so its a lot easier to get behind a tax the rich feed the poor message to sell to liberal voter, and a lot easier to counter that with liberals want to take money from harder working americans by the conservatives. Neither thing is true but long drawn out details about the eliminating offshore taxation loopholes, investigation of taxing electronic currency exchange practises and oddball tax credits isn't sexy and you have just lost the sound byte battle of the media.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I've posted before, I think that is a common characteristic of politicians of all stripes.



deadmoose said:


> Here our liberals are thieves. Good for you yours are better.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I didn't say politicians.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Interesting discussion, but you still didn't answer my questions......

1. Where would that leader lead us? You will be voting for the person who will set the direction that the country will move in for the next 4 years. What is that direction? If we were talking about a field it would be an easy discussion about how to prepare the field, which crops to plant, how to fertilize and nurture the plants, how to harvest and how to prepare for the next crop. This is no different except that this is the field that we, our children and grandchildren will live live in. We should start with the end in mind, otherwise we can only rely on the choreographed sound bites that the media and politicians rely on to treat us as mushrooms (keep them in the dark and feed them sh*t).

2. How do you bridge the chasm in the middle? This is a real problem, why our government is gridlocked, and why we are loosing stature/influence in the rest of the world. Our field has a big problem. Either we fix it and make it perform to it's full potential, or we accept lousy performance and spend years bitching about why it's someone else's fault and if only we could find someone to save us from ourselves. If you are not willing to do anything about the problem, you are the only one at fault and only a victim of your own inaction.

3. What direction is that and who do you think can do it? Realistic expectations have a much better chance of being realized than unrealistic expectation do. Do the individuals chosen to run have a realistic agenda to better this country, or are they just spouting unfeasible BS that will only appeal to a small minority in the fringes and further exacerbate the problem. Demographics define political destiny. Our electorate is made up of a lot of identifiable segments defined in a lot of ways....Age, race, ethnicity, region, religion (or lack thereof), economic status, interests, etc., it's not just liberal or conservative....those two categories merely increase from the middle to the fringes. There are a lot of diverse interests out there and to be elected the candidates must appeal to a majority of the electorate. The discussion needs to cover the full range of options, otherwise it's the same as arguing if a red tractor is better than a green one......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike120 said:


> Interesting discussion, but you still didn't answer my questions......
> 
> 1. Where would that leader lead us? You will be voting for the person who will set the direction that the country will move in for the next 4 years. What is that direction? If we were talking about a field it would be an easy discussion about how to prepare the field, which crops to plant, how to fertilize and nurture the plants, how to harvest and how to prepare for the next crop. This is no different except that this is the field that we, our children and grandchildren will live live in. We should start with the end in mind, otherwise we can only rely on the choreographed sound bites that the media and politicians rely on to treat us as mushrooms (keep them in the dark and feed them sh*t).
> 
> ...


OK, I'll bobble up and take the bait

1. Hopefully that leader will lead us out of the problems the current liberal leader keeps sinking us deeper into (debt, govt dependence, over-sized govt, more limited freedoms like healthcare, etc.) IOW: Hopefully the new leader will recognize our current worsening problems and try to reverse them.

2. I guess that answer depends on who is willing to "give up" more of their position. As I see it right now, the American people have a republican congress, a republican senate and 31 of 50 states have republican governors. Yet the only thing I see happening is republicans capitulating to king obama on a daily basis. So if my math is correct, I see the majority capitulating to the minority. I think the American way is usually "majority rules". However, Obama is using his typical tactic of "my way or the highway". So I'll ask you, should the minority rule this way? Should the minority say "my way, or we blow up everything"? Is this the way the current minority wing of the government should rule? Ignore the wishes of the American voter and do everything Obama's way (like forcing healthcare, even though majority of Americans didnt want it)?

3.The direction we should go should be less spending, smaller government and less dependency on the government. I think JOBS give people pride and purpose. It keeps them busy and tired, so they wont commit crimes, and go door to door knocking up other female welfare recipients. King Obama has never honestly addressed jobs, unless you call giving billions to bankrupt companies like "Solyndra" a jobs program. He likes people dependent on the govt. More voters for him. Remember, he who depends on Obama government for a handout isn't going to vote for the opposition party.
If we had a president truly devoted to the welfare of his people, he would concentrate more on everyone working, not how muslims percieve us or white cops shooting black folks.
If Obama spent 1/2 the time on jobs as he spent of trying to get Muslims to like us, we'd have under 4% unemployment.
Look at crime statistics. The correlation between long term unemployment and imprisonment is staggering. People need JOBS to keep them off the streets and out of trouble.
Now let me ask you this: How are you going to accomplish that when under king obama, we have a record 92 million people not in the American labor force? That statistic gets worse every year. Wouldn't you like to see that statistic get better? Wouldnt you like a president more focused on our domestic economy than Muslim relations and shrinking our military?

Its all about a strong economy and jobs, brother. Trust me! It makes many many other problems (govt dependency, crime, drugs, single parents, discrimination, unequal outcomes, etc.) GO AWAY. It lowers taxes. More people working= less taxes because more people are paying taxes.
No matter how "diverse" you claim we are, just about everyone in that "diverse" society needs jobs and money to prosper and pursue their dreams.
Most people aren't worried as Obama is about how Muslims perceive the USA. They're worried about their fellow citizens being happy and prosperous. They're worried about the shrinking labor force, higher taxes, more overburdening government-that's everything our king likes.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

that was put very well JD 3430 You explained that well .


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> OK, I'll bobble up and take the bait


No bait intended, merely questions to spur a dialogue about a subject of critical importance to our country. One of the problems of dealing with folks on the fringe is that they seem to be one dimensional. Only one thing matters above all else....the people who voted for Obama based solely on his race are an example. It's not even worth having a discussion because in their limited worldview, there is nothing to discuss. You (and hopefully others) are willing to discuss our options.

We are discussing a future election and by the title of this thread it sounds to me like the election has already been conceded. That is unfortunate because its only just begun. I want to win the election and don't want to repeat the mistakes of past attempts. Obama will not be running and he will only be part of the past. In previous elections, there were folks who were so absorbed by hate and distrust of the other side that they would have voted for a pig if it was the candidate for the opposition. People that are driven by hate are not reasonable, typically make bad choices and you can't have a meaningful discussion with them. I don't care about the past, I care about winning the election and giving my children and grandchildren a decent future.

Mistakes were made in the past two elections by both sides. But the winning side made fewer of them. If we want to win the election we have to make fewer mistakes than the other side and appeal to the majority of the electorate. In both elections the republican candidates, the platform, the message and most importantly, the view of the future was rejected by the majority of the voters. We offered no hope and we offered no change, the other side offered it......and they won. What are we going to offer this time?


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Mike I agree with what you have said and you'r right about the up coming election Yes Hillary has not won , I'am just speaking for myself , my fear is with what Obama has given out in freebies to get the free loaders to vote democratic, and some of the uneducated voters, they will vote for Hillary thinking that they are reelecting Billy. Hillary has some ideas that are even more destructive than Obama ( IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT IS POSSIBLE ) I know alot can happen in a years time hopefully Hillary has dug a hole she can't get out of with her email's and money taking foundation I guess only time will tell


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike120 said:


> No bait intended, merely questions to spur a dialogue about a subject of critical importance to our country. One of the problems of dealing with folks on the fringe is that they seem to be one dimensional. Only one thing matters above all else....the people who voted for Obama based solely on his race are an example. It's not even worth having a discussion because in their limited worldview, there is nothing to discuss. You (and hopefully others) are willing to discuss our options.
> 
> We are discussing a future election and by the title of this thread it sounds to me like the election has already been conceded. That is unfortunate because its only just begun. I want to win the election and don't want to repeat the mistakes of past attempts. Obama will not be running and he will only be part of the past. In previous elections, there were folks who were so absorbed by hate and distrust of the other side that they would have voted for a pig if it was the candidate for the opposition. People that are driven by hate are not reasonable, typically make bad choices and you can't have a meaningful discussion with them. I don't care about the past, I care about winning the election and giving my children and grandchildren a decent future.
> 
> Mistakes were made in the past two elections by both sides. But the winning side made fewer of them. If we want to win the election we have to make fewer mistakes than the other side and appeal to the majority of the electorate. In both elections the republican candidates, the platform, the message and most importantly, the view of the future was rejected by the majority of the voters. We offered no hope and we offered no change, the other side offered it......and they won. What are we going to offer this time?


So I agree with you Obama made less "mistakes" to get elected than McCain or Romney, but he also lied through his beautiful white teeth to the American people. Statistics were manipulated, too. 
So if we all knew some of Obamas campaign reelection promises were lies, would the republican campaigns have been good enough to beat Obama?
*If Obama could not make the promise "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", would he have been re-elected? *
Was that "hope and change"? No, it was a LIE. Maybe a big enough lie to win the election!!! New evidence has been shown that he knew that promise could not be kept. 
*How about the unemployment statistics being manipulated to below 7% on the eve of the election, then revised to over 7% AFTER the election? * Everyone knows that played heavily on people thinking the economy was recovering, when in fact it wasn't. 
*How about the IRS intimidating conservative opposition groups prior to elections, reducing their fundraising and silencing opposition? What did that do to the republicans chances in 2008/2012?*
Sure, the message to the people is important to get elected, but if you have to lie or cheat to win, then I guess the best liar wins? 
WTH kind of way is that to run a campaign?

The biggest thing history will make me remember about Obama is how he lied and the mainstream media carried his water to get him re elected.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Well put Mike, the democrats offered up huge things and failed to deliver on most of them. That's why I say if the republicans offer a more moderate tone and platform they would snatch the bulk of middle of the road voters. As long as the hard right keeps scaring moderate voters they are going to have trouble tipping the balance.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

slowzuki, You bring up a valid issue, about the far right scaring off voters , IMO hopeful runners like Rand Paul just need to go away the more he talks the worse he makes the Republicans look , there are some other too But he is the 1st that comes to mind.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone consider Scott Walker or Ben Carson "far right"?
People who are fiscally responsible (unlike Obama) and morally intact (like the Clintons)?


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I personally, like Scott & Ben I don't think they are "TO FAR RIGHT" I watched what Walker has done here in WI. and think it's good. I don't know if he has got what it will take to get to the white house , A Walker & Carson ticket could work....again JMO


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

snowball said:


> my fear is with what Obama has given out in freebies to get the free loaders to vote democratic, and some of the uneducated voters, they will vote for Hillary thinking that they are reelecting Billy.


That is a reality that likely cannot be overcome, but fortunately they are fringe minorities. We have our own fringe minorities that we have to worry about as well. They are more of a concern because "A house divided against itself cannot stand". In the McCain/Obama election, the democrats were very fragmented, but they got together, Hillary got promised SecState (and likely a lot more concessions), they all coalesced behind Obama and used the message about "Hope and Change" to win. Obama's total vote amount of 69.5 million votes (vrs 59.9 million for McCain) was/is the highest amount ever won by a presidential candidate. The total of 131 million votes cast in the election represents over 43% of the total U.S. population, the highest share of any presidential election in U.S. history.

We got slaughtered. The republicans destroyed each other in the primaries and handed the democrats every possible argument against their candidates which were successfully used against them because the party was still fighting ideology wars. The statistics were pretty telling: Liberals voted Obama 89%, McCain 10%, Other 1%. Liberals made up only 22% of the total vote. Moderates voted Obama 60%, McCain 39%, Other 1%. Moderates made up 44% of the total vote. Conservatives voted Obama 20%, McCain 78%, Other 2%. Conservatives made up only 34% of the total vote. The two minorities, Liberals and Conservatives, voted the way you would expect them to vote. The republicans lost the majority Moderates.

You could see the polarization occurring in the 2012 election, Liberals now made up 25% of the voters and Conservatives made up 35%. Liberals voted 86% Obama and Conservatives voted 82% Romney. The Moderates, representing 40% of the voters, voted Obama 56%, Romney 41%, and Other 3%.



JD3430 said:


> So I agree with you Obama made less "mistakes" to get elected than McCain or Romney, but he also lied through his beautiful white teeth to the American people. Statistics were manipulated, too.
> So if we all knew some of Obamas campaign reelection promises were lies, would the republican campaigns have been good enough to beat Obama?
> *If Obama could not make the promise "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", would he have been re-elected? *
> Was that "hope and change"? No, it was a LIE. Maybe a big enough lie to win the election!!! New evidence has been shown that he knew that promise could not be kept.
> ...


Welcome to the world of real politics. I hope you don't think that Republicans won't/don't do the same/similar things when they are in power? Obama merely got caught more often. Anyway it's a moot point and part of the past. The issue is how to win the next election, not a purity contest.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Vol said:


> The truth of the entire matter is that 65% of Americans LIE on a daily basis.....it is a accepted part of life for them and goes without notice.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Sorry, I left out 1 very important fact in the above statement......100% of politicians lie....it is a requirement.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

To extend on Mike's comments, most of these things are decided by folks other than the president. He / she is somewhat just a mouthpiece who has their own issues uniting their party to try and get things done that they have decided to promise. So much PR battling and spin, far cry from politics of 100 years ago.



Mike120 said:


> Welcome to the world of real politics. I hope you don't think that Republicans won't/don't do the same/similar things when they are in power? Obama merely got caught more often. Anyway it's a moot point and part of the past. The issue is how to win the next election, not a purity contest.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, mike so the big question you pose is:
How are we (I'm assuming your not a democrat) going to win this election? 
I gave my answer- offer to the voters reverse the problems Obama has dug us so deeply into.

What's your winning strategy?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That in and of itself would be a big ole lie JD......too damn big of a hole, maybe we could start shoveling but it'll take years for the road to recovery (if there is one, short of a revolt)


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Ok, mike so the big question you pose is:
> How are we (I'm assuming your not a democrat) going to win this election?
> I gave my answer- offer to the voters reverse the problems Obama has dug us so deeply into.
> What's your winning strategy?


Not good to assume, we were brought up in this part of the world as Dems, nothing wrong with a conservative Dem, I switched to the Rep party after the peanut farmer from Georgia became president.....


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

As to the voting stats- not quite that many voters voted for Obama. Many voted for him early and often.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> That in and of itself would be a big ole lie JD......too damn big of a hole, maybe we could start shoveling but it'll take years for the road to recovery (if there is one, short of a revolt)


Not a lie....you gotta start somewhere dog!! 
Extreme abstinence from spending. Military and necessities only. Voters need a wake up call. Look in the camera and tell the American people with honesty what will happen if we don't start reversing it!!! 
They will appreciate the honesty, 
To not start reversing the problem would make the next president part of making the problem bigger.

When I learned that most federal government agencies have 7 layers of duplicity in every department, I see lots of ways to cut spending!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Not good to assume, we were brought up in this part of the world as Dems, nothing wrong with a conservative Dem, I switched to the Rep party after the peanut farmer from Georgia became president.....


Democrats of then would be republicans today.
Times have changed. Today's democrat looks like a radical liberal compared to 30 years ago.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Democrats of then would be republicans today.
> Times have changed. Today's democrat looks like a radical liberal compared to 30 years ago.


Can't argue that.......


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Ok, mike so the big question you pose is:
> How are we (I'm assuming your not a democrat) going to win this election?
> I gave my answer- offer to the voters reverse the problems Obama has dug us so deeply into.
> 
> What's your winning strategy?


Like Somedevildawg, and most other Southern Conservatives, I come from a democrat background. The party abandoned us when the liberal wing took control. In local elections, I am party neutral and will vote for the most qualified person for the job. I run from local politicians who start spouting party BS because right now, neither party really represents me. The republican party, in the past, was the party of business. I view the world through a business lens, so I have had no problem identifying with them. I am very happily right smack in the middle because I am a Fiscal Conservative, but I am a Social Liberal in the context that I believe people should be free to do their own thing and I oppose authoritarianism in almost all shapes and colors. Right now I see the republican party doing the same thing the democrats did years ago, they're just going in the opposit direction. The liberal wing of the democrat party has gotten their very liberal president, he was a disaster, they know it, and it was reflected in the last mid-term election. They will not make that mistake again.

After eight years of Bush, the results of the Obama/McCain election was inevitable. The democrats offered hope and change, the republicans more of the same crap.....only probably worse. Romney and Ryan were decent candidates, but they were so battered and bruised from the internal party infighting during the primary, they didn't have much of a chance. The republican party pulled their guns out, took careful aim, and shot themselves perfectly in the foot.....and we got four more years of Obama.

I don't really have a strategy for winning (I wish I did) but I certainly know of a good strategy for not giving away the election again. Lets not do what we did in the past two elections and offer a platform that will appeal to a majority of the voters. Offer the same old crap and you are guaranteed to appeal to the conservatives, who are a minority and can't carry an election. You have to be able to appeal to the majority and those are the folks in the middle.



somedevildawg said:


> That in and of itself would be a big ole lie JD......too damn big of a hole, maybe we could start shoveling but it'll take years for the road to recovery (if there is one, short of a revolt)


 He's right, it is a big hole and it took four consecutive administrations to get us in this hole. Maybe six, but who's counting....



JD3430 said:


> Extreme abstinence from spending. Military and necessities only. Voters need a wake up call. Look in the camera and tell the American people with honesty what will happen if we don't start reversing it!!!
> They will appreciate the honesty,


So what are you going to cut and how are you going to sell your cuts to the people with vested interests? It has to be sold to a majority of the voters and there are a lot of vested interests........


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Just as a point of clarity...when I speak of "liberals" taking over the democrat party, that is what they are called today. In reality, they are socialists but that sounded "communist" years ago so they (and the press) started referring to themselves as liberals or progressives. Like putting lipstick on a pig...looks better, but it's still a pig and they are still socialists.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike120 said:


> Like Somedevildawg, and most other Southern Conservatives, I come from a democrat background. The party abandoned us when the liberal wing took control. In local elections, I am party neutral and will vote for the most qualified person for the job. I run from local politicians who start spouting party BS because right now, neither party really represents me. The republican party, in the past, was the party of business. I view the world through a business lens, so I have had no problem identifying with them. I am very happily right smack in the middle because I am a Fiscal Conservative, but I am a Social Liberal in the context that I believe people should be free to do their own thing and I oppose authoritarianism in almost all shapes and colors. Right now I see the republican party doing the same thing the democrats did years ago, they're just going in the opposit direction. The liberal wing of the democrat party has gotten their very liberal president, he was a disaster, they know it, and it was reflected in the last mid-term election. They will not make that mistake again.
> 
> After eight years of Bush, the results of the Obama/McCain election was inevitable. The democrats offered hope and change, the republicans more of the same crap.....only probably worse. Romney and Ryan were decent candidates, but they were so battered and bruised from the internal party infighting during the primary, they didn't have much of a chance. The republican party pulled their guns out, took careful aim, and shot themselves perfectly in the foot.....and we got four more years of Obama.
> 
> ...


I'm selling and privatizing all forms of public transportation. The govt loses 50% of every AMTRAK a ticket sold. Many years ago all the public transportation systems WERE private, and profitable. 
Get the govt out of education, energy, labor, etc. 
Abolish the IRS and simplify the tax code 
Believe it or not, the only thing I'd want the govt involved in outside of a criminal justice system is National defense and our national parks system. I'd build military bases along the Mexican border and let the military train & patrol the border and abolish the border agents. They were never given the proper tools or a winning strategy for illegal immigrant control. That way you get a 2-fer from the military and you'd get some drug trafficking control, too. 
Maybe some minimal oversight on environment, space exploration, transportation safety, drug safety.
Our government is 10 times bigger and more wasteful than it needs to be, yet these kook liberals keep adding more and more government wings to the buildings we already have! ITS INSANE! ENOUGH ALREADY!
We have govt employees looking at Internet porn all day and using taxpayer money for prisoner sex changes.

You know the govt is far too big when 7 of the 10 richest zip codes are outside of DC. 
Didn't used to be that way!!!! It means government jobs and contractors make way to much of our tax money!!!


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Here's a piece of worthless political trivia I was just was Chris Wallace and He was interviewing Mike Huckabee, A Chilton has been on a voting ballot for the last 41 yrs. Mike also said if you run against 1 of them in a election "IT"S LIKE GOING UP AGAINST THE GOD FATHER " So does that mean that the will be a horse head in each of the republican hopeful's bed ? If that's the case there will be a lot less horses around LOL... I always kinda LIKED MIKE, he's a straight shooter and doesn't sling alot of dirt, just calls it like he see's it.I will say this I find this thread pretty well maintained on either view . I wish our politicians could discuss the issues in the same manor that we do on here I think a lot more would get done in DC


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My biggest question is this:

How is borrowing 10 trillion more, bringing us to the point of financial disaster a good plan Mr Obama?

*Especially after you got up in front of a crowd and told them that president Bush did that with 4 trillion and it was called "irresponsible" and "unpatriotic". Then you add 10 trillion more, mr Obama. 
Does that make you MORE "irresponsible" and "unpatriotic", Mr. Obama? *
Please, Just answer the question, don't change the subject to "marching across the bridge in Selma".


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

JD don't jump on him , LOL he's marching with the Black movement against "THE MAN " I see George W Bush will be there also, Do you think Obama has the guts to blame George for everything that is wrong to his face today ? which brings me to another question Why can Obama march on a reenactment of history, But he could not march arm in arm in France against terrorism ? I see where his priorities are!!! I wish I could say what I'am thinking


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> I'm selling and privatizing all forms of public transportation. The govt loses 50% of every AMTRAK a ticket sold. Many years ago all the public transportation systems WERE private, and profitable.
> Get the govt out of education, energy, labor, etc.
> Abolish the IRS and simplify the tax code


Can't disagree, I think the original intention with AMTRAK was to preserve the capability, but trucking and air handles the majority of the cargo and the rest are corporations that seem to be doing pretty well. With education, energy, labor, etc I think there is a strategic role for the federal government but it's much more limited than now and should have more State/Local control. Energy has a pipeline safety role that is appropriate for the interstate commerce aspects and Labor has OSHA that needs to be preserved but rationalized. The IRS can be almost be completely replaced with either a flat tax or a VAT that will be much fairer for everyone. Right now it's a mess..



JD3430 said:


> Believe it or not, the only thing I'd want the govt involved in outside of a criminal justice system is National defense and our national parks system. I'd build military bases along the Mexican border and let the military train & patrol the border and abolish the border agents. They were never given the proper tools or a winning strategy for illegal immigrant control. That way you get a 2-fer from the military and you'd get some drug trafficking control, too.
> Maybe some minimal oversight on environment, space exploration, transportation safety, drug safety.
> Our government is 10 times bigger and more wasteful than it needs to be, yet these kook liberals keep adding more and more government wings to the buildings we already have! ITS INSANE! ENOUGH ALREADY!


Interesting thought on the military and the border. However I'm not sure how well that would work. Our Military is really an offensive capability where the border patrol is a defensive capability. The training is entirely different and I'd be concerned about a degradation in either. It's really only our Southern Border that is the problem. The people coming from the south are really economic refugees. There are probably easier and cheaper ways to solve that issue than with fences and barbed wire. Any suggestions?

Yes, we should look at reducing the cost of government but it's not that easy. Government employees (State and Local as well) have had an unwritten deal that they accept lower wages (than typical in industry) for a measure of job security and pension. The reality however is that only about 7% of Americans are employed by the government (Federal, State, and Local) which is about the same percentage as we had in 1970. Remember we have had a pretty good increase in population. It actually went down during Obama's first term but that was mainly due to decreases in State/Local governments because of the lousy economy and budget cuts.. You could probably get rid of a few and the improving economy could absorb them, but if you shrink it too much it won't be able to perform the strategic functions you've preserved. In an improving economy we'll likely have a hard time recruiting good people to serve in government. Not a lot of easy answers, so where would you start?



snowball said:


> I wish our politicians could discuss the issues in the same manor that we do on here I think a lot more would get done in DC


 They can, if we insist on it. They listen to the voters, but right now all they hear from are the vocal minorities who are trying to move us in opposite directions using sound bites and biased media. We have to show them that we expect thoughtful answers and that they are elected to improve the country for the majority of the population, not the noisy fringe. You can have a decent discussion on any subject, we do it here all the time...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd make a campaign promis to cut government (except military and border security) by 25% to help get me elected. 
If it was done, I bet nobody would notice a damn thing. It's so bloated with redundancy. 
I'd promise to abolish the IRS the day I take office. It's nothing more than a hammer to be used to intimidate opponents and has far outlived its purpose.

We need a leaner, more efficient government so we can begin to roll back the 10 trillion obama spent. 
And by the way, where did all the money go? What was it spent on? Who got the money? 
Did you get any?


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Well just for starters , Cash for clunkers, the shovel ready projects that weren't so shovel ready, the wind power solar energy farms,the Auto bail out Fannie & Freddie the electric car manufactures the 1 that went belly up also the crawfish tread mill, the free cell phones to the lower class, jet fuel for Air force 1 for the family vacations , and don't forget the green fees at the golf course, ect. ect.ect. and my favorite the selfie stick so he can do his own photo ops.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

I see the old hooker made it official today, I see she forgot about the lie she told last mouth about her emails and that it was to hard for her to use more than 1 electronic device... But the Lazy B.... didn't have any trouble announcing she is running for the democratic nomination on social media. The B... just had to do this on the Lords Day.... I hope He punish's her good for making it her issue on a Sunday This is almost as bad of news on a Sunday has it was on Dec. 7th 1941.. the day the Jap's attacked Peal Harbor....


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