# 4x5-4x6-5x5-5x6 Survey



## mntractoraddict (Dec 7, 2014)

*What round bale size?*​
*What round bale size does everyone bale with*

 4 by 52438.71% 4 by 6812.90%5 by 546.45%5 by 61930.65%4 by 4711.29%


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## mntractoraddict (Dec 7, 2014)

What does everyone use


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I do 5x6 because of the custom stalk baling market here. If I were to own a round baler for only my own use I would probably have a 4x6.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Where I live your better off baling 4x5's. If you bale 4x4's they'll wanna give you half the price, and if you bale anything larger than a 4x5 you will have to fight to get anything more out of them than 4x5 prices. That's just one of the reasons I got out of round bales. Other being that most people around me have a mix of 50/50 grass and weeds and drive the market down to $10 on a wet year and $25 on a dry year for round bales. Then you try to raise good hay and you go belly up. It's funny how goat, llama, and horse people know and expect to pay for hay in small squares, but cow people who are making the most expect you to give them your hay lol. Sorry had to vent! Lol


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

4x4.5. They sell for the same price as a4x5 around here.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Around here 4x4 for baleage. 4x4 dry seem to sell better and nobody is going to pay what a 4x5 2nd cutting bale is worth.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

5x6 bales the more hay in the bale the better.Less bales to handle.Hay is sold by the ton here.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I have a 4x6 baler but only bale to 64"s tall. 4 ft wide bales are easy to haul when stacked double across a trailer


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

5x5 for resale, 5x5.5 for myself.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

4x5
Should have bought a 4x6 since you can always set the monitor to 4x5. 
Although big round bales are a very tough sale in MY area.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Nate926 said:


> Where I live your better off baling 4x5's. If you bale 4x4's they'll wanna give you half the price, and if you bale anything larger than a 4x5 you will have to fight to get anything more out of them than 4x5 prices. That's just one of the reasons I got out of round bales. Other being that most people around me have a mix of 50/50 grass and weeds and drive the market down to $10 on a wet year and $25 on a dry year for round bales. Then you try to raise good hay and you go belly up. It's funny how goat, llama, and horse people know and expect to pay for hay in small squares, but cow people who are making the most expect you to give them your hay lol. Sorry had to vent! Lol


I concur......sometimes I wish I had net wrap, but it would just be spending money to lose money so why bother, although it would get me out of the field faster and able to do something that would make money, perhaps that in and of itself is justification for having net.....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Properly baled netwrap bales gives the hay eye appeal which helps sale ability. Not to mention the 25% increase in productivity.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Would love to stay with the 5x6, but would cost a lot to replace about 1/2 the bearings & other things it needs. The new-to-me I was able to find closest fitting my needs was a 4x6.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I concur......sometimes I wish I had net wrap, but it would just be spending money to lose money so why bother, although it would get me out of the field faster and able to do something that would make money, perhaps that in and of itself is justification for having net.....


Is it the cost of net wrap or the price of the option on the baler? I ran the figures about a year ago and found that the cost of putting net on was just a little more than what I spend on twine. It wasn't enough to raise the price per bale. I do put on more twine than most around here. I want the bales to look as good a possible. I see bales in the field with 4 wraps or less with hay falling on the ground. My next baler will have net. Can't wait.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

IH 1586 said:


> Is it the cost of net wrap or the price of the option on the baler? I ran the figures about a year ago and found that the cost of putting net on was just a little more than what I spend on twine. It wasn't enough to raise the price per bale. I do put on more twine than most around here. I want the bales to look as good a possible. I see bales in the field with 4 wraps or less with hay falling on the ground. My next baler will have net. Can't wait.


The net wrap option, the cost of net vs twine is really insignificant although it is more expensive to use net....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Properly baled netwrap bales gives the hay eye appeal which helps sale ability. Not to mention the 25% increase in productivity.


I'm not sure about that jim, at least not in my neck, what helps sale ability here is low prices.....eye appeal is great for the horse buyer but the cattleman could care less about eye appeal, price is what matters.....its certainly more productive, which means I can use that time to do something that I CAN make money on, or practice take offs and landings, or fish, or hunt, or spend time with the grandkids.....anything rather than spin that ball of grass that I'm not making any money on.

Going rate for a 4 x 5 900# ball of grass around here is $45.....for those that make high quality hay, that's a joke, should be about $60-70. But the market is what it is, ain't like its going to change.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I'm not sure about that jim, at least not in my neck, what helps sale ability here is low prices.....eye appeal is great for the horse buyer but the cattleman could care less about eye appeal, price is what matters.....


I think if you set some twine wrapped & net wrapped bales side by side for sale all things equal the net wrapped bales will sell 1st at least where I live they will. BUT opinions are very similar to navels as every body has one!!


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

5x6 because I hate moving bales.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

With me MINUTES count when baling in the mid atlantic.
Can't tell you how many times I have finished with rain coming down. If I had twine, I'd be a 1/2 hour behind on a 40 bale field and would have to Ted that rain off the next day and start drying again. With net, I'm off to the next field.

I also agree net wrap has more eye appeal to buyers. It also keeps rain off bales already made sitting in fields.

Another thing I picked up on about net I didn't know until I started selling to a new mushroom hay buyer. He makes me cut the twine or net off each bale so an employee doesn't have to. I notice I can cut net off my bales a lot faster than guys who bring in twine wrapped round bales.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> I do 5x6 because of the custom stalk baling market here. If I were to own a round baler for only my own use I would probably have a 4x6.


Why is that? If I could make 5x6 I would much rather feed that.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> With me MINUTES count when baling in the mid atlantic.
> Can't tell you how many times I have finished with rain coming down. If I had twine, I'd be a 1/2 hour behind on a 40 bale field and would have to Ted that rain off the next day and start drying again. With net, I'm off to the next field.
> I also agree net wrap has more eye appeal to buyers. It also keeps rain off bales already made sitting in fields.
> Another thing I picked up on about net I didn't know until I started selling to a new mushroom hay buyer. He makes me cut the twine or net off each bale so an employee doesn't have to. I notice I can cut net off my bales a lot faster than guys who bring in twine wrapped round bales.


Lol, I didn't mean to highjack the thread about net vs twine.....but I can tell you this....if you ain't makin money then there's no way you can justify the expense of a net wrap machine nor can you justify the expense of net....that's a real easy one to figure out. Your locale may differ....and I ain't gonna Ted a field I'm gonna roll unless absolutely necessary and to make top quality hay it's a necessary evil here, but once again.....impossible to justify if you ain't makin money on the end product. One thing I've learned over the years....I don't need the practice I need the profit, it ain't happening with round bales here.....


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

I was one of the first in my area to go to a 4x6 from a 5x6 and now all but the biggest operators are using the 4x6. We didn't market any hay just used it for ourselves and I just did not like the weight of the 5x6 way to heavy. Guy around here started breaking axles in their trucks. We also unroll our hay and the cattle didn't lay down in it as bad, I like unrolling verses the rings less mess, and also spreads the nutrients back out more, not to mention everyone gets to eat not just the boss cows.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, I didn't mean to highjack the thread about net vs twine.....but I can tell you this....if you ain't makin money then there's no way you can justify the expense of a net wrap machine nor can you justify the expense of net....that's a real easy one to figure out. Your locale may differ....and I ain't gonna Ted a field I'm gonna roll unless absolutely necessary and to make top quality hay it's a necessary evil here, but once again.....impossible to justify if you ain't makin money on the end product. One thing I've learned over the years....I don't need the practice I need the profit, it ain't happening with round bales here.....


That's why I think hay is a local or regional business. When I saw the prices you get for RBs in your area, I wouldn't own a round baler, either. Up my way, you can do ok. When I saw what MLappin was making, I damn near fell off my chair. 
It's a regional thing.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I agree totally on hay and the type of bales you produce as being reginal! In my area if it goes in a round bale you might as well of never baled it unless you plan on rebaling it at a later point for small squares. The only way I see to make a profit is to never fertilize your fields or spray, plus run around trying to get all the free trashy ground you can bale for free but then it all goes down the drain when you hit a large rock you didn't know about, but that's not my idea of farming. I cant sell junk to someone and sleep at night.

That's why I got back into small squares.... Next year my pure alfalfa 50-60lb bales will not leave the barn for anything less than $9 a bale, and mix grass hay will be $5. Next fall I am planting 25 acres of orchard grass and it won't leave for anything less than $7 a bale maybe $7.50. I feel I will have no problem getting it either. But I've been wrong before lol!!


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Just bench racing here about 4x6 vs 5x6, but here are my thoughts.

20% less cubic volume in a 4x6 compared to 5x6. FWIW

4 foot wide bale would be easier to load and haul on the typical commonly available hayracks or pickup trailers. Getting 5s set two wide on an 8' deck can get frustrating fast.

2 4'x whatever handle nicer on my loader than 5', especially if the 5 footers are hay. Same would be true for a small loader. 1500lbs of 4x6 would be easier to carry than 1500lb of 5x6.

4x6 baler could make a 4x4, 4x5 or 4x6 as needed. Equivalent volume of a 4x4 with a 5 foot baler would be 3.5' dia bale.

I think that the equipment needed to generate a properly shaped 4' wide windrow would be less expensive on the average than for a 5' windrow.

Tub grinder and mixer wagon do not care what size the bale is, although the mixer starts to spill hay if the bales are over 1000lbs.

I would rather do good quality hay in big squares than rounds.

What works best all depends on your situation.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Most all round bales around here are 4x5s. I don't make any round bales since you absolutely can't sell them for what it costs to make a round bale of good hay. $25-$35 is what the market price is here for a bale of good mixed grass hay. The only way I can see to justify having a round baler here is if you were making the hay to feed to your cattle.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Just bench racing here about 4x6 vs 5x6, but here are my thoughts.
> 
> 20% less cubic volume in a 4x6 compared to 5x6. FWIW
> 
> ...


You are referring to selling the hay? 4x bale v 5x bale? I definitely see the advantages there.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Nate926 said:


> I agree totally on hay and the type of bales you produce as being reginal! In my area if it goes in a round bale you might as well of never baled it unless you plan on rebaling it at a later point for small squares. The only way I see to make a profit is to never fertilize your fields or spray, plus run around trying to get all the free trashy ground you can bale for free but then it all goes down the drain when you hit a large rock you didn't know about, but that's not my idea of farming. I cant sell junk to someone and sleep at night.
> 
> That's why I got back into small squares.... Next year my pure alfalfa 50-60lb bales will not leave the barn for anything less than $9 a bale, and mix grass hay will be $5. Next fall I am planting 25 acres of orchard grass and it won't leave for anything less than $7 a bale maybe $7.50. I feel I will have no problem getting it either. But I've been wrong before lol!!


 You described the round bale situation around here exactly.....I have a great dislike for those that round bale as you describe and mine the land of nutrients since they never fertilize. To me that is not farming. Most of the land I farm was done like that before I got it and it has cost me a fortune in fertilize and lime to get the fields productive. I don't think you will have any trouble selling quality squares either......I made about 8,000 this year and am already sold out.....I could have sold twice that many if I had them.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I love reading these stories. Some of them amaze me. I can get $75 for a 4x5 RB of natural grass all day and you go 400 miles south and you can't give them away. That's an eye opener.
What I don't like is there are some people in my area that don't believe a round bale can be a quality bale.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> I love reading these stories. Some of them amaze me. I can get $75 for a 4x5 RB of natural grass all day and you go 400 miles south and you can't give them away. That's an eye opener.
> What I don't like is there are some people in my area that don't believe a round bale can be a quality bale.


I can't believe you can get that much for a round bale. Couple years I had 4x4 2nd cutting grass I was sell for $45. The customer that bought them said he had no problem buying good hay for that price and was embarrassed to be seen hauling the crap hay he was buying. For the most part tho round bales are still $15-$25 in this area and left outside during winter. I don't know how you can cover your expenses with that. If I could get your price for hay I wouldn't even think about making small squares.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Good quality Bermuda grass rd bales sell for $70-$80 here. I've already sold over 400 including some lower quality cow hay($40) and expect to sell a lot more before Spring .


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IH 1586 said:


> I can't believe you can get that much for a round bale. Couple years I had 4x4 2nd cutting grass I was sell for $45. The customer that bought them said he had no problem buying good hay for that price and was embarrassed to be seen hauling the crap hay he was buying. For the most part tho round bales are still $15-$25 in this area and left outside during winter. I don't know how you can cover your expenses with that. If I could get your price for hay I wouldn't even think about making small squares.


I sold ~500 4x5's @ $75/bale. I also can get ~$150 delivery charge for a full trailer (14 bales).
Then I sold about ~300 bales of low grade stuff I sell to a mulch hay buyer for about $105/ton- which works out to about $42/bale. 
I'm pretty happy with that in my 3rd year of business. I just picked up another 10 acres of mulch hay and another 15 acres of pure orchard grass. So I hope to make over 1,000 4x5's next year. 
I feel very fortunate The Lord has blessed me with such an amazing opportunity.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> You described the round bale situation around here exactly.....I have a great dislike for those that round bale as you describe and mine the land of nutrients since they never fertilize. To me that is not farming. Most of the land I farm was done like that before I got it and it has cost me a fortune in fertilize and lime to get the fields productive. I don't think you will have any trouble selling quality squares either......I made about 8,000 this year and am already sold out.....I could have sold twice that many if I had them.


You'd be disliking a lot of people in my area. That describes 1/2 the hay farmers up here- and most of the BTOs.
We have 3 BTOs up here farming probably 10 times as much hay as you and I put together. Probably 90% of it is mulch hay. Just enough fertilizer and weed control to keep the crop growing. All 3x4x8 big bales.
The thing is, there's a huge market for it (the mushroom industry) so you'd be a fool to make the hay any better than what the buyer requires. Those BTOs work in 4 states and have 5-10 million in equipment. 
They will also make about 10% "nice" hay, like you make for locals with horses.
In all honesty, I'd rather make 1,000 acres of mulch hay than 100 acres of pretty hay. You can own bigger more sophisticated equipment, bale when you want, let it sit cut in the field until its brown (that's what mulch hay buyers want) bale it up, and let it sit stacked outside until you haul it in. Input costs are a lot lower, stress is a lot lower, timing much less important. 
I'm making both types right now and I much prefer mulch hay. Leaves me more time with my family and less time on Saturday and Sunday dealing with fools who try to beat you down on price and tell me all kinds of lies about where the hay is to be unloaded, when the check will clear, blah blah blah. 
I would rather make 80% mulch hay and 20% cattle hay for some of the more "realistic" ranch owners. 
Most Horse people are stone cold nuts!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Good quality Bermuda grass rd bales sell for $70-$80 here. I've already sold over 400 including some lower quality cow hay($40) and expect to sell a lot more before Spring .


I think what may have happened with you Texans is a trickle down benefit of the drought of a few years ago. If I could get those kinda prices, I too would make rounds with a smile on my face, but at this moment in time it's a grimace every time I make one because I know my wheels are spinning and I'm not moving forward. During that drought, I sent hay to Texas and was hearing all kinds of prices that people were getting. Mulch hay was commanding prices of feed hay. I certainly could be wrong but that would make sense to me, no one can get those kinda prices here for round bales.....Tift 85 is my best rolled hay and I sell it for 60-65$, but I usually have a hard time moving it until later in winter or early spring. If we have a early spring I could get caught with excess inventory very easily....


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> You are referring to selling the hay? 4x bale v 5x bale? I definitely see the advantages there.


Selling or feeding them myself. I have only sold some stalk bales over the years, and didn't have to get too involved hauling them. I would certainly rather haul 4x bales down a highway than 5x. DOT generally doesn't harass 5x loads that are 2 wide here, but still I rather not give them more excuses.

4x will never catch on around here because of the stalk baling demand. Everyone wants as much volume per bale as possible, as stalks are lighter per cubic volume than hay. Typical 5x6 stalk bale baled dry is around 1200 lbs.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

JD3430 I would be in hay heaven if I could get $75 a roll for good grass hay down here!! As far as the mushroom hay If it made business since then I wouldn't blame the guys one bit for doing it. When I said I can't sleep at night after selling junk hay I meant telling people it was good hay like all the guys around me do knowing its half weeds. If the buyers like the mushroom people wanted it that way then I wouldn't have a problem because they know what they are getting I'm not having to lie to them.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I think what may have happened with you Texans is a trickle down benefit of the drought of a few years ago.


The drought is far from over as where I live we're about 15"s behind on rainfall for the year.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> You'd be disliking a lot of people in my area. That describes 1/2 the hay farmers up here- and most of the BTOs.
> We have 3 BTOs up here farming probably 10 times as much hay as you and I put together. Probably 90% of it is mulch hay. Just enough fertilizer and weed control to keep the crop growing. All 3x4x8 big bales.
> The thing is, there's a huge market for it (the mushroom industry) so you'd be a fool to make the hay any better than what the buyer requires. Those BTOs work in 4 states and have 5-10 million in equipment.
> They will also make about 10% "nice" hay, like you make for locals with horses.
> ...


 I think the difference in the mushroom hay growers in your area and the ones that make junk round bales here is that the mushroom hay growers do put back some fertilize for the hay they take off the land. Here the ones that make junk round bales put absolutely no fertilize whatsoever and after years of doing so it depletes the land so bad that it won't grow anything but broomsage. I had one soil sample come back saying the P level in the soil was 4 and the K level was 8. I wish we had a market for mushroom hay down here......it would kind of put a bottom on the hay prices and keep the market from being flooded with low quality round bales that drive the price down. It would also be a great way for me to market hay that doesn't make the cut for quality squares because it got rained on, molded, etc.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> The drought is far from over as where I live we're about 15"s behind on rainfall for the year.


Agreed, perhaps that's why the prices are still in line, but the drought you guys are in now is no where near the levels of a few years ago.....hopefully they won't get back to those numbers again.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Exactly...

I like a 5X5.5 size bale myself...

Too bad that option wasn't on the poll...

Later! OL JR


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