# Economy Round Balers?



## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

What would be the best bang for the buck in a 4 x 5 new round baler?

John Deere 459 Standard, Vermeer Rebel 5420 or the NH 450 Utility?

I think most of the used balers I see around here are high for their age and condition. Thought about upgrading but not sure if I want to spend the money.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have the new holland 450 U. Been a good baler. Very little problems with over 7000 bales through it the last 2.5 seasons. A few pickup teeth and one belt for repairs is all I have done. This baler brand new was not much more money than a used baler 15 years old.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

hog987 said:


> I have the new holland 450 U. Been a good baler. Very little problems with over 7000 bales through it the last 2.5 seasons. A few pickup teeth and one belt for repairs is all I have done. This baler brand new was not much more money than a used baler 15 years old.


If you hit a spot in the windrow that is heavy or a little green will it clog?


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## ForemanTX (May 7, 2012)

I have the Rebel 5410 I only have 1000 bales threw it but it's simply good baler. I'm sure the 5420 is a upgrade from mine,haven't looked on over. I can tell you this if you clog it,you have to be really trying to do it. Maintenance easy everything is on the one side,never had bit of trouble out the twine but the net has gave me some headaches but finally got them resolved.

7000 bales on a 450,I hope to get that out of mine in the next 15yrs. With that little of issues to bale # says a lot for the NH.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I didn't look too much @ the JD ao I cannot comment there. Between the Rebel 5420 and 440 U I went with the Rebel. Net only no twine saved a few bucks. I got it last year. 300 ish trouble free bales. Clogged it once, my fault.

One of the deciding factors was dealer offered me fresh trade slightly used 450u. Turns out it had a few issues from the factory they had to fix. That guy traded in on a new Vermeer N.

I should add my dealer has been selling nh forever and Vermeer for only a couple of years. Literally Vermeer sells itself there. They would rather sell a nh. Maybe just cause of familiarity?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

The JD rd balers that I've owned have all been good balers except for the 466 Mega-wide that I didn't keep very long. The one I traded in '07 had 30,000 bales on the monitor and my current one has baled 19,000 bales.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes the 450U will plug if you hit a big wet slug but only if you hit it starting a bale. Once the bale is rolling I think I have only plugged it once and that was cause it pick up a rock that would not go into the chamber. It does not plug often.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> The JD rd balers that I've owned have all been good balers except for the 466 Mega-wide that I didn't keep very long. The one I traded in '07 had 30,000 bales on the monitor and my current one has baled 19,000 bales.


What model is your current baler Jim?

Regards, Mike


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

I bought a new 450 last summer. I don't run many rounds, mostly small squares but it has been trouble free so far. One thing I don't like is the fact that the pickup is narrow (compared to other NH bailers) and the extra sweep isn't advailable plus the pickup is kind of hidden under the front shield (with the net option so it entailed looking over my shoulder quite a bit and at a row end to get all the forage.

I think I remedied that situation this year, I added a rear facing camera so I can watch the pickup without getting a sore neck. 75 bucks is a lot cheaper than the NH gathering wheel setup at 1600 bucks.

Time will tell I guess.

I might roll 100 rounds a year, thats about it. 2 customers, my wife for her nags and my boss for his nags. Everything else is idiot squares.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> What model is your current baler Jim?
> 
> Regards, Mike


I traded my 1st 467(twine only) for a 467 with netwrap. The 467 with megawide pickup's are by far the best JD rd balers I've ever owned. Previously I had owned a 430,435 & 466 mega-wide PU. The 466 was by far the sorriest rd baler I've ever owned and I didn't own it but a couple of yrs.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

ARD, Is yours the utility model?


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

A question about both balers, do you have to kick the PTO off when dumping a bale?

I got a good price and trade offer on the NH 450 U.

In the long run the Rebel would cost about $3000 more at the end of the loan.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Not on the Rebel.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

The 450 u the manual says to eithet turn pto on or keep it on while dumping the bales.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Are they ANY balers still produced that aren't designed to dump with the pto running?


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

Not sure if anyone else that has commented has had a NH chain baler. That is what I currently have and it makes a pretty good bale. Would I be taking a step backwards with a NH 450U baler?

The chain balers just seem to be high maintenance and thought about trading while it is working. It is 24 years old and I worry about break downs. I would do less than 200 bales a year. Hiring the job done in my area is getting next to impossible.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

In the past I had a NH 851 chain baler. Let me just say that the 450U will bale circles around the old chain baler. Makes bales about as heavy even tho they are smaller. With the auto tie 851 best I ever did was 22 bales an hour. With the 450U with twine tie only the best I have done was 52 bales an hour. Average for both balers is about 15-18. for the 851 and 37-40 for the 450U.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

hog987 said:


> With the 450U with twine tie only the best I have done was 52 bales an hour.


52 twine wrapped bales per hr is very impressive. What diameter were they?


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

We use an NH 853 chain baler. I've never ran any other round baler, but even for someone that doesn't know what else is out there, it seems sllllooowww.

I'd love to upgrade to a decent belt baler, but we are a small operation and can get by with what we have for now.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

My old baler make a pretty tight bale. I would be disappointed if the 450U made them too loose. We stack some hay to tarp and like them to keep some shape or it is hard to tarp them.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Thinking about aome differences- look at the weights of the balers. Iirc the rebel has a fair amount more heft.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Thinking about aome differences- look at the weights of the balers. Iirc the rebel has a fair amount more heft.


I don't see a fair way to compare weights. The Rebel lists its weight with all the options and the NH list shipping weight which is without tires and wheels. The NH I actually looked at had a tag on it stating weight which was about 4100#. Add the gathering wheels and it would increase.

Do you feel the rebel makes a really tight bale?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

tom-ky said:


> I don't see a fair way to compare weights. The Rebel lists its weight with all the options and the NH list shipping weight which is without tires and wheels. The NH I actually looked at had a tag on it stating weight which was about 4100#. Add the gathering wheels and it would increase.
> 
> Do you feel the rebel makes a really tight bale?


Mine makes a fairly tight bale @ 1500 psi. I am sure I could go higher but that worked well for me.

Vermeer also has multi unit discount. I got an additional 2% off when buying rake and baler. They then also financed rake on same loan and better program.

I also get another small kickback: vermeer doesn't charge if you pay monthly pmts with a credit card. So for ease mine is auto pay on cabelas visa (1% back in points).


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

Never thought about that. I have gotten to in the habit of using a credit card for everything to get 1-5% cash back. We do the gas, utilities and groceries on it.

Honestly don't know what to do, it is a lot of money for the amount of hay I do. My old chain baler is slow and don't want to put a lot of money in it. May be better off to sell all the cows and rent the place out.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

tom-ky said:


> Never thought about that. I have gotten to in the habit of using a credit card for everything to get 1-5% cash back. We do the gas, utilities and groceries on it.
> 
> Honestly don't know what to do, it is a lot of money for the amount of hay I do. My old chain baler is slow and don't want to put a lot of money in it. May be better off to sell all the cows and rent the place out.


If you're currently somewhat comfortable running a completely obsolete baler, wouldn't another option be to upgrade balers but not buy a brand new one? You'd be joyous just running a good 10-15 year old baler.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> If you're currently somewhat comfortable running a completely obsolete baler, wouldn't another option be to upgrade balers but not buy a brand new one? You'd be joyous just running a good 10-15 year old baler.


I have thought about it. But in my search found those balers running almost what they want for the NH 450 Utility balers, plus most of the used ones I have found don't want mine in trade so I would have to try to sell it. I can get better finance rates on a new baler. Just for a comparison one used baler I found would cost me as much as a new one by the time I got it paid for.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

tom-ky said:


> Never thought about that. I have gotten to in the habit of using a credit card for everything to get 1-5% cash back. We do the gas, utilities and groceries on it.
> 
> Honestly don't know what to do, it is a lot of money for the amount of hay I do. My old chain baler is slow and don't want to put a lot of money in it. May be better off to sell all the cows and rent the place out.


Wheres the fun in that? Either way you hopefully end up with a nice new baler. Only problem is you run out of hay too quick.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> 52 twine wrapped bales per hr is very impressive. What diameter were they?


Its a 4x5 baler and these bales were as big as the baler can make them. That was my one time record. Next closest was 48/hour. To get the 52 everything has to work perfect in a thick swath.


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## ForemanTX (May 7, 2012)




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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

tom-ky said:


> My old baler make a pretty tight bale. I would be disappointed if the 450U made them too loose. We stack some hay to tarp and like them to keep some shape or it is hard to tarp them.


With your new 450, NH recommends running the single tension cylinder pressure low for the first 30 rounds or so (to allow the belts to break in) then you can crank it up. I keep mine about 2 turns in (which sets the piston rod about 2.5 inches out of the cylinder when the baler is empty and the door is closed. Bales come out solid. Not thump solid as in a ripe watermelon, but solid. I'm not particular as they are for my wife (nags) and my at work boss (more nags).

Other than the paint issue. I'm happy with mine.

if it just quits raining and drys up I can make hay. This year is a mirror image of last year.


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## tom-ky (May 30, 2011)

ARD Farm said:


> With your new 450, NH recommends running the single tension cylinder pressure low for the first 30 rounds or so (to allow the belts to break in) then you can crank it up. I keep mine about 2 turns in (which sets the piston rod about 2.5 inches out of the cylinder when the baler is empty and the door is closed. Bales come out solid. Not thump solid as in a ripe watermelon, but solid. I'm not particular as they are for my wife (nags) and my at work boss (more nags).
> 
> Other than the paint issue. I'm happy with mine.
> 
> if it just quits raining and drys up I can make hay. This year is a mirror image of last year.


Yea they mentioned that, they are suppose to deliver it and go over it with me. They have to install the gathering wheels. The way the weather has been I may need to sell cows and grow rice, but at least there is grass. Prefer too much over too little moisture.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

For economy balers, look at the KR160s, there are plenty used out there incredibly cheap. I was almost going to buy one, but since I do mostly baleage, I stuck with a KR130, can't deal with the added weight of the bigger bales.


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## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

I ran an 853 from '90 until'13.Put 450 to 700 bales per year through it.After several frustrating breakdowns and replacing three air bags,I found a J D 535 in great shape with two years on new belts.One of my better days.I'e lways used NH but this Deere is doing great.Doesn't plug as easy'and the bale monitor is great.


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## JustinSOTEX (Jun 13, 2015)

Since this is kinda related to what y'all are talking about, i figured i post this question here rather than start a new thread. Do any of you guys have any experience with the Vermeer 6640 Rancher 4X6 baler ? I also looked at the 604N 4X6 but the 6640 looks pretty good, the 6640 is a little cheeper $ wise compared to the 604N. Other that that is there any real difference between the two ?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Isnt it a 4x5.5? 66 =66" bale?


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