# Minors ordering things they can't pay for



## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

Sorry I posted this in another forum Topic, Not sure which one to put it in! My apologies if it isn't the right one.

I had a man (or so I thought) call several times over the past 2 weeks inquiring about fine shavings or bedding. He said he and his father sell roughly a trailer load a month to local folks with cows. They were looking for a new supplier as the old one was giving them the run-around for a few months. Said they pay cash at the time of delivery. We normally only deal with medium to large flake shavings for the horse market. So after a few calls and texts with my supplier I made a deal on the semi-specialty order. I called the customer back and made the deal with him, and the customer asked if I could deliver the following morning. I said, it was a very short window, but I would try my best. I talked with my supplier again and he said yes, that he would have them there that afternoon. Everyone was happy. So at 7:30pm the night before the delivery, the young man starts questioning the number of bags that we fit on a 53' straight enclosed trailer. He doubts the size of the bags. The bags are 3.2 C/ft compressed plastic bags. We fit 1232 bags on a trailer. 22 rows deep x 56 bags to a row. I explained the stacking pattern is different than some would do, but sent a picture to back up what I said. He claims his other supplier could only fit 1150 bags. Either way, 3.2 is 3.2 I would think right? After much back and forth, at 9:30 pm, he says he doesn't want them. The bad part is, my supplier already loaded them. NOW, I own them technically. I mention to him, that he ordered them specifically to his wants and needs, and they cannot go back to the sawmill at this point, and I don't want to piss off my supplier either.

So his response to me was this. " I guess I should have asked more questions, I'm only 16" . My jaw nearly hit the floor. So I politely (mind you all through texts) asked him to have his father call me asap. He said, "it isn't going to change anything, he doesn't want them at this point. We are going in circles, so let's just call it quits" Insert High Blood Medication at this point. CALL IT QUITS? I think not!! I have roughly $4800, tied up in this, a 53' truck and trailer, and no outlet for them, because they are a special order type shaving. If they were normal large flaked shavings, I would sell off somewhere else no questions asked. But that isn't the case. He then says to me "Before you say, anything else, remember, I'm only 16 yrs old".

I say to him, "I NEED TO SPEAK TO YOUR FATHER OR WHOEVER IS IN CHARGE OF ORDERING OR PAYING FOR A $5000 LOAD OF SHAVINGS THAT IS ALREADY LOADED FOR YOU, THAT YOU ORDERED!" I then decide to contact the State Police in his state, and they advise me to have the father or guardian contact me, which I do. AT 11:30pm the father starts leaving me threatening messages that the harassment needs to end or else! Haha, there was never a threat or a harassment, its all in black and white. I was more than polite and cordial throughout.

So the father gets a return call from me, and he promptly asks why I would do business with a 16 yr old kid, with no license or job. I explain that the kid told me they were selling shavings together blah blah blah. The guy basically gets caught in 15 lies by me throughout this whole conversation which I call him out on everytime. I asked his name, wouldn't tell me. My gut feeling tells me that the father and the son are the same person. He told me to take his son to juvenile court....seriously who says that? After an hour long circular conversation, I basically told them they need to figure out a way to move or sell them.

My question is, do I have a legal leg to stand on, to hold them accountable for a purchase they made? Or do I have to bite the bullet on this and take the loss? I really do not want to go to court over this, but I'm pulling what little hair I have left out over this. Thanks for listening


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Are verbal contracts binding in your state? You will have to get his name at some point so that you can have him investigated and see if he has a 16 year old son.....if he does, he is off the hook.

Regards, Mike


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Yup - can't legally contract with a minor, none of the terms are enforceable even with a piece of signed paper.


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Didn't you get a name and address for the delivery. Post it on social media for all to see.


----------



## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

It happens all the time for me as I sell a lot of 4H lambs, luckily these are generally good kids and their parents are present, but I am open to issues I know. Last year I banded a ram-lamb that did not take and the kid asked if I would pay half the cost of having her vet sterilize it. Nope; it was my mistake, I paid for the whole thing. I know that is different then your case, I wanted to show her how to be honest in business dealings, but personally I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on.

I know in Maine your case would not be legally binding at all, but we have the top consumer protections of any state. Here a "contract" is made whether it is written, oral, or even implied. The Attorney General states "even buying a can of soup at a grocery store in Maine is considered a enforceable contract". It is kind of like having a rental property, the laws are written for the renters and not the landowner, and for the consumer and not the seller. The guy (of which his age does not matter at all) changed his mind. A consumer has the right to do that, BEFORE the sale and 3 days after the sale.

I have a friend who has a bulldozer junkyard and this happens a lot. People will ask for parts, he spends 3 days tearing apart a bulldozer to get them, they learn what truck shipping would cost, and they back out. Three days of work for nothing!

I am not trying to be unsympathetic to your cause; its more that the legal system is unsympathetic and I am looking at this from a legal standpoint. The fact the guy is now saying he is a minor is even worse for you.

But these same laws work for us too. As a farmer, I can rent a field, apply fertilizer, install drainage tile, or any other farm practice, and if the person kicks me off, I can take them to court to pay for these land improvements. No written contract required. Most farmers do not do that though.


----------



## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

What I'm about to write here is, obviously, no help to the current situation but this sure is an educational moment. We can all learn something from this fiasco and I want to thank Hayboy1 for sharing it with us.

Some quick thoughts:

When large shipping/handling expenses are involved, perhaps get payment up front - especially from a first-time customer. I'm thinking of mail-order catalogs. When you call their toll-free number to place an order, they don't ship anything until they get your credit card number - and then check that your credit line will cover the merchandise + shipping.


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Have a minor friend call the phone # and order up a load from them and have the minor set a delivery date of a week out, find a minor that sounds old, hell have a older person make the call, place a large order with them, let the truck show up and have a minor cancel it.... turn about is fare play in my neck of the woods....


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Rut. Does your buddy have parts for a JD 550 G LT? Back cab door or panel.
As for the topic at hand, cash on the barrel head.


----------



## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

I deal with a lot of different people in the hay business as do most of you. The integrity of people seems to be at an all time low. The internet does not help the situation at times. Keyboard warriors!! If I had done this when I was a kid, my father would have dragged me by my ear and brought me door to door until it was all sold. It's truly disheartening. I do appreciate all of your feedback. Stinks that I had to write this in the first place, but lesson learned. From now on, 50% down, with the remainder at delivery before unloading ANYTHING. I am a handshake and a man of my word kinda guy, but not everyone else is obviously. Thanks again!


----------



## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

On a side note, anyone looking for a load of Fine Grade Shavings....haha  I swear there 1232 3.2 bags on it!!!


----------



## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm going to do a 180 from the other posts. If you can determine that the father (or whoever) is ACTUALLY reselling the product, and given the conversation, it appears the 16yo knows the business. That's ½ your battle. The juvenile was acting as a designee of the "company" or business. To put a little icing on the cake, it would be great to find out their previous supplier and see if they every took orders, took payment from, delivered to, had the kid sign for, etc...any deliveries. It would cement the fact that he is a designee of the business. It appears that the "father" (if you want to call him that) is using the kid to create a loophole and believes himself to be insulated thru the kid. I think you could whip this one in court if you do a little snoopin around to make your case. Don't go after the kid, you have to go after the "company" (which may only be the father).

Just my meanderings.

Mark


----------



## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

I have a close friend who is an attorney. I'm going to speak with her tomorrow about this. I just want whats right. Thanks for the encouragement for sure. These two (or one) are definitely in this together. And to be honest, I have a 16 yrs in my house. Pretty smart and clever kid, but not the one I made a deal with supposedly. Way too knowledgeable about stuff for his age. Not saying it's impossible to know that much or be as shrewd as he was, but highly unlikely IMO


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Sounds like this guy needs a good old fashion ass whoopin'.....lesson learned..... never, ever, without money in hand


----------



## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Hindsight is 20/20. With a special order I would make them pay up front before anything happened on the other hand when you have a good order like that you would like to think people would stick to their word.

Baleage here is a tough sell so I let my customers know that if they want to guarantee they have some next year it has to be prepaid and I'll store. I have already made the mistake of storing hay on their word and that was the last time I will do that.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

IH 1586 said:


> I have already made the mistake of storing hay on their word and that was the last time I will do that.


Been there!

Regards, Mike


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Vol said:


> Been there!
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yup... baleage is different of course as far as storage is concerned...

I did the "pay me now pick it up later" with dry round bales and won't be making that mistake again... too much BS, guys not showing until the WORST POSSIBLE TIME and all that crap...

I finally said, "nope, no more... you want summer prices "out of the field" you pay and haul OUT OF THE FIELD; you want the convenience of me storing it and you taking delivery "as you need it", you pay the wintertime premium prices (going rates, which are virtually always higher in winter)." No more cake and eating it too.

NO WAY I'd ever do a big custom order like that without money up front, at least part of it...

Later! OL J R


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Good thing about this all is that it happened before it was delivered, if the truck load was sitting in their yard or the the load was unloaded at their location it may have been worst, although by them accepting it at that point they would be on the hook for the money. This manly cost you alot of frustration. I would make sure in the future any new customers unknown to you, fill out some kind of order or submit some information to open an account with you. I know more business require it and we think its a pain but thats part of doing business now days. To help prevent scams like this. I do give you credit for prompt service and trying to get the customer what he wanted.


----------



## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

We have this issue a lot with firewood. The problem is under Maine law you cannot go back and reposs it. It has gotten so bad that truck drivers demand money to truck it up front, and now so do loggers before dropping it off.

If I came across as being unsympathetic, I did not mean too. It sucks. Like you I am a handshake guy myself.


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Me too Rutt, but sadly those days & that kind of people are dwindling down, soon there won't be anything left to trust....


----------



## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

I have got into the demolition job ,by accident I work with 2 big Dema people ,on has just score a Job knocking down a army supplies base.Massive sheds up to 10 acre,s .the short of the story I sell the sheds intact to farmer,s etc.the deal is money up front for sheds ,then they pay the guy 50%up front and the rest when the shed is pulled down ready to load .He then gets his 50% before it goes.If people don't like that they can go else where,it also sought out your would be want to be,s.the she'd work out under half price of a new she'd and being ex government built like a brick out house


----------

