# Grass/grain drill vs no-till



## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

Hey Guys, 
I need to be educated on drills. I keep seeing old grain drills that are set up as grass drills. JD 8000 series and IH 510 or 5100s. How much tillage is required to plant grass with this type of drill on medium packed dirt? 
We have about 30 acres of pasture and 30 of hayfield we want to be able to plant then overseed with mainly rye and fescue. Just looking for some way to plant it without spending 15k on a Great Plains. 
Thanks


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

If they have double disk openers for the seed instead of single disk and a shoe it may work if the ground is some what open, not sure how hard what you are calling medium packed dirt is. I have seen some that were trying to be passed off as no-till. To me a true no-till drill will have a fluted/wavy coulter to open the ground for the double disk seed opener.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

What are you going to plant before overseeding with rye and fescue?

We have a JD 8300 with dbl disk openers and a small seed box. I routinely seed rye from the large seed box into a stand of mainly common bermudagrass in fall without disking the ground to loosen the soil before seeding. This works quite well whether pulling a drag behind the drill, or not pulling a drag. Like FCF stated above, double disk openers make it work.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FCF said:


> If they have double disk openers for the seed instead of single disk and a shoe it may work if the ground is some what open, not sure how hard what you are calling medium packed dirt is. I have seen some that were trying to be passed off as no-till. To me a true no-till drill will have a fluted/wavy coulter to open the ground for the double disk seed opener.


Oh I don't know about that, many no till John Deere drills and air drills I've looked at are single disc with no coulter ahead of the row unit.

Although different that a drill our Hiniker air seeder also only uses a single disc, have no tilled beans into some mighty unfavorable conditions with it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

In the 60,s and early 70,s we used those old drills to sow like you are proposing . So if you need shallow tillage to get the conv. drill to function it is possible . BUT if you decide to just till one to three inches deep . what we found was that tillage zone must be properly prepared. To just blow across with the disc once chop it a little and roll couple of dirt balls will do more harm than good When we did that back in the day . we would mow and bale the field clean, then Disc and packer then 2 passes with cultimulcher with all 3 passes trying to not exceed 3 inches in depth . Then we could get a vperfect stand with a conv, drill. and avoid deep tillage for conservation reasons .If you do half axed illage field gets rough seeds are on top . anyway . Kind of like the guys that still run a disc threw a full crop of corn stalks once and than a lite drill that is a joke. County agent used to say back in a day if you cant notill and you cant get a seed bed wait for frost seeding


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

FCF said:


> If they have double disk openers for the seed instead of single disk and a shoe it may work if the ground is some what open, not sure how hard what you are calling medium packed dirt is. I have seen some that were trying to be passed off as no-till. To me a true no-till drill will have a fluted/wavy coulter to open the ground for the double disk seed opener.


That is a thing of the past the best notill drills do not have a wavey coulter ahead of the row unit


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

We have a Bermuda field, then mostly fescue and wild grass every where else. Sounds like a double disk planter would probably work for what I'm trying to do just overseeing and planting initially if the ground is open. What model drills does everyone have good luck with? Thanks


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

All good replies. When I replied the impression was that he wanted a drill that was older and much lower cost than 15K. I should have qualified the reply, also was more directed to the IH 510 and 5100. Apologize for the confusion.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

mlappin said:


> Oh I don't know about that, many no till John Deere drills and air drills I've looked at are single disc with no coulter ahead of the row unit.
> 
> Although different that a drill our Hiniker air seeder also only uses a single disc, have no tilled beans into some mighty unfavorable conditions with it.


Talking about the old "slit-n-smash" 450 Deere No-till drills?? Yeah they work but personally, especially if you're in heavier soils (clays and clay mixes) I think you're better off with the wavy coulter and double disk openers...

Slit-n-smashes have their own lists of drawbacks... seems either folks love em or hate em... They have their good points too I guess; all depends on conditions and what you're doing with it.

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

FCF said:


> All good replies. When I replied the impression was that he wanted a drill that was older and much lower cost than 15K. I should have qualified the reply, also was more directed to the IH 510 and 5100. Apologize for the confusion.


I ran an IH 5200 drill on a coulter cart for my BIL planting beans... great rig, would penetrate anything (a little heavy in the mud!) and got a great stand. Only real drawback was the fluted meters aren't that accurate with soybeans (not like vac or brush planter meter accurate anyway) and only 15 feet wide, so even at 6 mph or so it's still not covering ground very fast...

Don't remember what he got for it when he sent it to the auction after he got a 12/23 row Deere 15 inch air planter for beans (30 foot bar so twice as fast) but I think you could get one of those that would do anything you want to do for less than $15 grand (don't think he paid much more for it than that when it was just a few years old from another farmer).

It was a sweet running rig and I miss running it...

Later and good luck! OL J R


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

FCF said:


> All good replies. When I replied the impression was that he wanted a drill that was older and much lower cost than 15K. I should have qualified the reply, also was more directed to the IH 510 and 5100. Apologize for the confusion.


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

FCF that is what I'm looking for is a drill just to overseed with and do some initial planting with. Looking for something cheaper than a new drill since I'll just be doing about 50 acres with it.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We have a Bermuda field, then mostly fescue and wild grass every where else. Sounds like a double disk planter would probably work for what I'm trying to do just overseeing and planting initially if the ground is open. What model drills does everyone have good luck with? Thanks


 If Im understanding this correct your wanting to no till into a Bermuda sod with a conventional double disc drill? I'm not sure how well that will work. My thinking is the discs won't penetrate the sod much and will just lay the seed on top of the ground......but then again if your only wanting to plant ryegrass as long as the seed is touching the ground it will probably come up. Those drills were made to be used in a prepared seedbed and will perform well in those conditions. They just don't have the down pressure to work in a no till situation.


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## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2015)

I was just trying to find options on drills that don't cost so much. The Bermuda field we've got isn't too thick I wouldn't say it's even sod. It's just got Bermuda mixed in. I was just trying to see if there were any options out there


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I was just trying to find options on drills that don't cost so much. The Bermuda field we've got isn't too thick I wouldn't say it's even sod. It's just got Bermuda mixed in. I was just trying to see if there were any options out there


 Another thought is it might be worth finding out if your county has a no till drill available for rent. I know some areas do and others don't but it might be worth looking into. Once you establish a stand of annual ryegrass if you let it go to seed you probably won't have to plant it again as it will keep reseeding itself every year. It kind of becomes a weed if you don't want it in your fields.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> FCF that is what I'm looking for is a drill just to overseed with and do some initial planting with. Looking for something cheaper than a new drill since I'll just be doing about 50 acres with it.


You can do that with a 8200, 8300, or 450 in a double disk.....but you have to pick your times...which can be a very limiting factor. The best time to use one of these older conventional till drills as a no-till is after a good rain. These drills will not work well if the ground is rock hard and has no moisture which is often the case in the early fall. But if your patient and will wait for the proper soil conditions you can be fairly successful with no-tilling with these older conventional drills providing the discs are in very good shape and near their full size. I understand your reluctance to drop 20 G's on something that will be used just basically to "spruce up" a fading grass stand.

If you pull the drill two crossing directions you should be able to get a decent amount of seed to germinate if you have the proper soil conditions.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> FCF that is what I'm looking for is a drill just to overseed with and do some initial planting with. Looking for something cheaper than a new drill since I'll just be doing about 50 acres with it.


Check with your Soil Conservation office they may have a notill drill to rent.Or perhaps a machinery dealer.You can't justify spending much for 50 acres.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Talking about the old "slit-n-smash" 450 Deere No-till drills??
> 
> Later! OL J R


Luke

i think you must have meant "JD 750" instead of 450 because 450 is just a later model end wheel drill similar to the 8000 series end wheel drills.

Jim


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Luke
> 
> i think you must have meant "JD 750" instead of 450 because 450 is just a later model end wheel drill similar to the 8000 series end wheel drills.
> 
> Jim


Yep sorry...  OL J R


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