# Overseeding Alfalfa



## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm looking for some advice on overseeding a new stand of alfalfa. I no-tilled a field this fall and seem to have a spotty stand although I could see more and more germination as the fall went on. I had thought about trying to overseed with my conventional grain drill in Feb. and let the freeze-thaw effect hopefully get some seed in the ground for germination in the spring. I believe the depth of seed was ok as I constantly checked it over the course of planting. This was a new seed that has yet to come to the market so its just a 15 acre test plot so to speak. Help and comments please.


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## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

If you have an established (if spotty) field I would be worried about autotoxicity preventing your overseeding from germinating.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

> If you have an established (if spotty) field I would be worried about autotoxicity preventing your overseeding from germinating.


Generally not a problem for the first six months or so as it has not had time to build up to toxic levels


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Overseeding alfalfa into alfalfa would work just fine, HERE.

Problem is what works HERE may not work THERE.

Here I can seed into an older established stand with good results. Again that is HERE.

Here is in the Central Texas Blacklands, Soil is calcareous and a heavy clay. Climate is no freezing to speak of but we do have an Annual Summer Drought. I do not know if I am blessed or cursed.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Somtimes the freeze/thaw leaves the ground REALLY soft here in spring. Theres like a 2 week window where a guy could use a conventional drill and have good results, especially if a packer was used, or if a rain would put the seed in the ground a little. I would have 0 worries about the auto toxicity if the stand was planted in fall of '09.

Rodney


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Rodney R said:


> Somtimes the freeze/thaw leaves the ground REALLY soft here in spring. Theres like a 2 week window where a guy could use a conventional drill and have good results, especially if a packer was used, or if a rain would put the seed in the ground a little. I would have 0 worries about the auto toxicity if the stand was planted in fall of '09.
> 
> Rodney


Rodney is right, I have seeded like this every time and it works,Ive even been toldyou can do it up to 18 months later, never tried it that far out, usually within 6 months or a year, If you can get the first cutting off fast enough in the spring just drill it in behind that.
THOMAS


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

THANKS GUYS. I am not worried about autotoxicity because it was planted at the end of September (later than I wanted). That should not be a problem. I have never planted in the winter and didn't know if the freeze-thaw thing would work. Should I run the cultimulcher over it with the teeth up of course? If I did that, I guess I would need to wait until the ground was frozen? I guess if worse comes to worse, I could over seed with OG. Thanks for all the replies and any comments would be greatly appreciated. Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Mike,If you had spotty germination and some came up later some of it may have not been far enough along before frost to survive the winter.

I think a conventional drill would work fine especialy if it has press wheels directly over the row for good seed-soil contact.Usually HERE in early spring there is some mellow soil on the surface perfect to plant into.

Or you could notill drill it again.

Than hopefully you get a nice rain on it rite after your done planting.

If it was me HERE and depending how big the bare spots were I would add a annual crop for cover to help keep the weeds back.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

swmnhay brought up a good point - if the conventional drill has press wheels, you might not need the cultimulcher (teeth up, like you mentioned).
We used to put clover in the wheat for a cover over summer, and it was then a plowdown the following spring - used a 4-wheeler and a spinner. I knew a guy in OH that used an old lawn tractor and a little spinner to plant his alfalfa - he did the frost seeding method you describe.

Rodney


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks Guys. Unfortunately, my drill does not have press wheels. I think I may try the cultimulcher idea. My front rollers are the crowfoot design.and the back are solid. I'll have to see how that works. Great idea. Thanks. Mike


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

Hey ND

I responded to another question along the same vein in this section so I am just cutting and pasting from that one. The information may or may not be on all fours with your issue but some of the options fit well for a small field that you can experiment with.

"I believe that for frost seeding to be effective the seed has to go down after the frost and before the snow. This puts the seed on the ground where it gets pressed to the earth by the weight of the snow. Then when the melt comes the seed can be drawn into the earth as it sucks up the moisture from the melt. If you spread seed on top of the snow you will have most or all of it run off with the early melt. Seeds that do catch will be in areas that are low and accumulate run off or in waterways that filter the seed out of the run off.

So I assume that that opportunity has passed which leaves you with some other options.

Scarifying the ground with something like a heavy set of harrows or a very light passing of a tandem disc or an aerator will prepare the soil enough for an over casting of a seed mix. If you follow this up with another harrowing and perhaps even a packing you might solve your problem. This could be done early spring before all the frost is out of the ground which could give you a few inches of thawed soil to work with but yet a firm base.

The next opportunity would be to mix the seed in with manure fertilizer if you have that option. This is a one pass operation once the seed/manure mix is on the field you just hope for a light rain to get things growing. You will have to hope for rain as well if you scarify the soil and follow that procedure.

I have listed the options from least preferred to most successful, in my experience. In my case I have seen yield improvement through all options. My proof is a small field near the farm stead (17a) It is about 18 years since planting and has been renovated about every 5th year with one of the above methods. In fall of 2008 I used the manure/seed experiment and in the haying season 2009 I got 2.5 ton/a and 2 months grazing for 35 head of cattle. Not too bad for a real chitty year for haying!"

Your winter conditions will be more or less like mine in Manitoba so it just an adjustment in timing.

Good luck


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## jstrohfus (Nov 16, 2009)

Here is the related post that Heyhay...eh mentioned: http://www.haytalk.com/forums/f2/no-till-vs-frost-seeding-alfalfa-1541/


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