# Inline three tie balers Hesston vs New Holland vs Freeman



## ThreeTieMan (Apr 9, 2011)

Wanting to know why the Hesston design has came out on top over the years? Heston definitely holds resale valve higher than any other three tie inline.

I know of some problems associated with marketing inline bales in the export market. Cut side on the twine, doesn't always flake great, overseas buyers think they look funny and if one brand did a better job of overcoming these problems that would make sense but I haven't herd anyone say that.

I guess along with that thought I can't remember anyone saying something bad about their Hesston. I have heard people say the New Holland had too many moving parts (maybe the feed system?) and the Freeman had flywheel drive belt problems. Was there other problems with the Hesston 4690, MF 1843/1844, New Holland 585/BB900 or Freeman 1390?

Also how many stokes per bale do you do in grass vs alfalfa with a three tie inline?

And how does the MF 1844 being only available in PTO and non-swinging tongue affect your replacement decisions?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

As you can tell, threetieman, ain't many folks that use 'em.....I do know where a 16x18 two string NH is that is in excellent shape, like brand new......10k if ya know anyone interested. Hard to market here.....


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## Buntingc (Feb 14, 2017)

Sorry I have nothing useful to add to your posts; I've never operated one of these balers. The only 3-Tie I've baled with was a New Holland 'hammerhead' 98 from the late 1950s; fantastic machine!

You fellows are right in 3-Tie territory; do you ever see old Oliver or Case 3-Ties lying around?? I need one (or even two!!) for an old baling master in Iowa. An Oliver 101, 102 or 103 would be wonderful as would a Case 177 or even an NAP-3. Any chance??


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Somedevildawg.

I am having trouble with the quote button this morning.

What kind of 16 X 18 Baler does your neighbor have? Pics?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Lostin55 said:


> Somedevildawg.
> I am having trouble with the quote button this morning.
> What kind of 16 X 18 Baler does your neighbor have? Pics?


 I'm the one with the baler Dawg is talking about. It is a NH 5080 with about 800 bales run through it. Have to get a little more than the 10k Dawg mentioned though. Send me a pm and I will give you the details on it.

Hayden


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

ThreeTieMan said:


> And how does the MF 1844 being only available in PTO and non-swinging tongue affect your replacement decisions?


Can't answer most of your questions, but I can cover this last one. There has certainly been some demand to bring a swinging tongue to the 1844 as the tractor size necessary to run the baler may not offer enough ground clearance for the windrows they usually make. The trouble is it was easy to put a swinging tongue on the 1843 as there was no PTO to deal with. That also worked well for a lot of operators who used Jeeps and pickups to pull those balers instead of a tractor. With the 1844 the PTO creates some technical challenges in keeping the u-joint angles low and the cost down.

A pair of swivel gearboxes like you see on some mowers would be an obvious answer to keep the tongue length short, but the cost for a pair of those prices such an idea out.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

Freeman was built like a tank. Not enough time spent in development and was rushed to market to compete with Hesston. Pretty good baler if you want heavy bales. Not pretty bales like the 370.

New Holland were 1st decent 3 string they ever built. Basically because they stole Freeman's chamber press mechanism. No demand and emissions basically killed them

Hesston made big upgrades with S models. Earlier ones had some issues. I personally know lots of people who wouldn't be able to ever get along with the new models. Agco got greedy and took the easy way out on 1844. They are lighter and no engine for $55k. You can buy big balers for that. I'm surprised they sell any of them

Maybe fix the tongue and put a load cell in plunger to help with bale weight like big balers have and drop price to $40 and they might actually have a decent product


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

Haystax,
Maybe I've asked you before, I don't remember. What is it that would make certain guys not want the new Massey balers? What would be the main things you dislike about them? I've got all engine balers and haven't been around these new balers, so I'm just unacquainted with them.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

haystax said:


> Hesston made big upgrades with S models. Earlier ones had some issues. I personally know lots of people who wouldn't be able to ever get along with the new models. Agco got greedy and took the easy way out on 1844. They are lighter and no engine for $55k. You can buy big balers for that. I'm surprised they sell any of them


The air-cooled Deutz was not capable of meeting Tier IV final emissions; the cost would be even greater if they went with a water-cooled engine that could meet emissions. They are only lighter due to the missing engine; otherwise the chamber and frame are largely identical.

For the record, the 1843S in 2012 had a list price of $80,000. In 2013, the 1844S that got rid of the engine was listed at $72,000. To get into a 2250 (3x3) that same year, you started at $113,000.

I would love to see load control on a 3 string, even if that meant a simple hydraulic-only system like the old Hesston 4800 had.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

Well list price is one thing. I'm talking about actual sale price of the only 1844 I know of and it sat on lot for 2 yrs

And one baler does most guys no good. 4 or 5 balers are more realistic. 2 big balers bale circles around 5 little ones for the same money. And only two tractors.

Main drawback with PTO baler is they can't be pullled with a junk tractor. Need clearance and CVT trans to do the same job as engine baler and junk tractor. I know one guy who runs 10 engine balers on Rankins Wheels. Need an engine for that and how long will those balers last before the frames just fatigue to the point that throwing parts at them is no longer an option?

Why is Freeman still able to use the Deutz?

I'm running old Freeman 370s. Three are Hydro and two engine. I would consider switching brands only because I have the CVT tractors to pull them. The load cell controlling rail pressure to guarantee a 100lb bale at 20 strokes every time would be the only way I would even think about it. And the price would have to come way down to boot

Even as expensive as Freeman parts are I can't see ever switching to MF.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Yeah, I'm just quoting the prices I had so it was apples to apples... same end result though, the 1844 did at least get cheaper when it lost the engine. I agree that for the money some big square balers could bale the tonnage quicker, but as I'm sure you know the bale package is dictated by the customers.

Freeman is a smaller company with lower sales volume so they either have an exception or it's cost effective for them to buy carbon credits and continue using Tier 4i engines (which Deutz did meet with EGR).

I don't disagree that taking the 1843 to PTO was a detraction to a lot of owners and forced them to spend money on larger tractors, but keeping the engine was going to price the baler out of the market. Does New Holland still have a self-powered 3 string? I couldn't find anything on their site.


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

Well, I agree with what you guys say. I love the swinging tongue. Makes it more enjoyable. In my area I have been hearing a lot of talk of the development of a twin chambered 3-string baler. That is what I am really interested. Even if it cost 150,000 or more I would go for it. You guys hear anything of that nature?


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

I think New Holland dropped the inline a while ago. They have a PTO side delivery model I think. It might not even be offered as I think it was some kind of aftermarket conversion

I know the market is very small for 3-string but there are still quite a few around the West and are a much better and efficient size than 2 string. Too bad it never caught on east of the Rockies.

The only way I see a PTO baler working is maybe pulling two behind a tandem hitch behind a big steamer. I know some guys doing it with 2-string and bundles but handling is a major bottleneck.

Maxzillian - Are you employed by Massey? Get a prototype tandem hitch and plunger load/scale setup going with1844s and I bet you sell 20 units in the first year


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

If I could pull 6 balers with 3 tractors/operators and know that the bale weights would be dead on then now you're back in business!

I can't imagine it being that difficult. About time MF had something in Tulare that was exciting to see.

Build me one unit and I will test it this season!


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

I know I've heard of some privateer playing with a twin plunger concept. I think that might be the way to go in the future vs. a twin hitch setup, but that's a hard call to make for certain.

As far as I know, I haven't heard so much as a murmur of trying to put load control on a small square baler. In some respects I'm not sure if it could make bale weight more even as the large square baler still vary weight directly with moisture, but I suppose the change in weight may not swing as much as the density pressure does usually decrease in response to an increase in moisture.

Edit: I realize I've gone a bit off the rails with this thread, any further comments will be on-topic. I promise!


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes you have Max, but you haven't answered the question either.......?????


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I have a 585 and bb900 I hate both. I'm trying to sell them. When I can get them to run all is well most time I'm wrenching on them and my old 515 is doing the job. I agree with haystax hesston needs to step up and make a real 3 tie baler. were just going to do 3x4x8 them pos NH 3 tie baler cost to much to keep running.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Lostin55 said:


> Yes you have Max, but you haven't answered the question either.......?????


Yeah, that's why i really shouldn't have stepped in to begin with. I haven't been around the Freeman or New Holland balers enough to answer those questions with any truthfulness. I can set the record straight on the Hesston balers, but that's about it.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Max, my opinion means exactly Jack, and this I realize, but I have read your posts as informative on a subject you know. My thought is that is what this site is all about.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

.......and I was referring to the question of whether or not he works at Massey Ferguson.

His advice and opinion is spot on.........


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Thank you to all that added to the discussion a lot of information. Not that it makes much difference as I don't see myself buying a new baler short of winning the lotto. I was thinking it was just that engine powered balers were not selling rather than the clean air bs.

From what I was told the largest NH dealer in Calif was taking 5080 16 x 18 to a shop and making 16 x 22 chamber with a 3rd notter added. All with mother NH blessing.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

Garton tractor. In Turlock ca if I rember right it was Silvia's machine shop doing the work


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