# Change tractors



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm contemplating selling my M7040 70HP cab 4WD, loader 900 hrs for a larger (100+HP) higher hour cab 4WD hay tractor with loader and power shift . As long as its in pretty good shape, I'm willing to go to 4-5k hours.
I can't spend any more money than my M7040 is worth. Based on TH prices, it looks like it might be worth about $30,000.
Reasons are because I'd like to be able to bale or disc mow with either tractor, improved ride and stability of a heavier tractor on the horrible fields I have. My smaller tractor is limited to rake or Tedder duty only, but it uses very little fuel.

For $30,000, the selection of 100+HP cab, 4wd hay tractors with loader and specs I listed loader are pretty small. 
Am I being unrealistic? Has anyone seen a 100+ that is a good clean tractor? Closed to mid Atlantic the better.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I'm contemplating selling my M7040 70HP cab 4WD, loader 900 hrs for a larger (100+HP) higher hour cab 4WD hay tractor with loader and power shift . As long as its in pretty good shape, I'm willing to go to 4-5k hours.
> I can't spend any more money than my M7040 is worth. Based on TH prices, it looks like it might be worth about $30,000.
> Reasons are because I'd like to be able to bale or disc mow with either tractor, improved ride and stability of a heavier tractor on the horrible fields I have. My smaller tractor is limited to rake or Tedder duty only, but it uses very little fuel.
> 
> ...


Look for a JD 2955- they were good tractors, loved my 2755 which was 2wd. Almost wish I had refurbished it rather than gone with a 6100D. The 8 spd trans with a high low is a hard combo to beat. Most but not all are 2wd but you can get to your price range and have a good machine. The 2755 and 2955 are the machines that I wish JD would put on the market today just as they were originally released.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Chambersburg Hoobers just traded in a nice Valtra like you want. 28k.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD

Why replace the 7040? Does it make you money in winter still? Sounds like the new 'Bota has you spoiled. Rakes and tedders need tractors too.

As far as the tractor you are looking for I would think you could beat it with a White.

http://m.tractorhouse.com/ListingDetail/Index?listingId=7927839&categoryId=1109

How old are you looking? I think some 70's 80's AC may fit your description.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I missed power shift requirenent. Oops.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm finding McCormick CX105's with loaders, partial power shift 4WD, cab and dual PTOs and 2-4k hours for 28-29. European rigs. Problem is they're like 85 PTO HP. Might struggle with discbine. dry clutch, too.

Also found nice case IH 5140 4wd cab with loader. $29k.

Dead moose, I hear ya. You are right, bigger tractor has me crazy spoiled. So much less punishing to drive because heavier. Plus can handle bigger attachments.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

White's have a powershift, its just that its only 3 speeds. In the 30k mark and clean are New Holland TS-110's once in a while, I've seen quite a few clean Kubota M-100's with loaders.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Unless you want it to be your primary mower tractor, mowing uphill at 10mph, there is no reason that 85hp isn't more than enough to mow.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

To me it would seem to be a waste of fuel to use a 100 hp tractor to pull a rake and tedder like you have. I pull my 4 rotor tedder and single rotor rake with a 30 hp tractor and on the hills I have I really could use about a 50 hp tractor but it gets the job done and uses minimal fuel. I just dont see needing a 100 hp tractor to rake and ted. Your M 7040 wouldn't be able to pull the discbine but in a pinch you should be able to round bale.

I look at it this way, if something would happen to your bigger tractor that would prevent you from mowing you wouldn't need the M7040 to bale anyway....if it was the other way around where you could mow with the M7040 but not bale then you would be in a pinch that would make me think about another tractor.

Another thing to consider is that you know what type of shape your current tractor is in, if you go buy a larger tractor with higher hours it may not be in as nice of shape as the one you have and essentially you traded for a lesser tractor just to have some luxury horsepower that is not essential at this point. I think you may be hard pressed to find a higher horsepower tractor like you want that is as nice as your M7040. You didn't happen to buy it new did you? In my opinion you might be better off sticking with what you have now and when you make some money and expand more in the hay business you could buy you another 100hp tractor. That way you would then have a tractor to mow with, one to Ted and rake with that is easy on fuel, and one to bale with.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Unless you want it to be your primary mower tractor, mowing uphill at 10mph, there is no reason that 85hp isn't more than enough to mow.


Mowing and round baling uphill with 108pto HP right now. Steep hills are causing downshift from 4h to 3h. I would imagine dropping -20 on PTO HP would cause more downshifting than I like. 
Both attachments want a minimum of 90 PTO HP. If I had my way, I'd want at least 105-110.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Mowing and round baling uphill with 108pto HP right now. Steep hills are causing downshift from 4h to 3h. I would imagine dropping -20 on PTO HP would cause more downshifting than I like.
> Both attachments want a minimum of 90 PTO HP. If I had my way, I'd want at least 105-110.


So do you want it to be your primary mower? I assumed you just wanted to be able to mow in a pinch.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Another thing to consider is that you know what type of shape your current tractor is in,


This is always a concern of mine.

You do not want to end up with another persons patch work repairs.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> So do you want it to be your primary mower? I assumed you just wanted to be able to mow in a pinch.


Well, you are right. M126 is primary, but if I'm gonna make a change, might as well buy one that can do it easily, why buy a 85pto when you can have 100+ PTO?
Would like interchangeability knowing the newer tractor will have higher hours.

How about these "European" tractors. They look like they have a lot more features for the money, but the drawbar is different than our drawbar.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Deere 2955 is an awesome tractor, just not many 4wd out there....


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> To me it would seem to be a waste of fuel to use a 100 hp tractor to pull a rake and tedder like you have. I pull my 4 rotor tedder and single rotor rake with a 30 hp tractor and on the hills I have I really could use about a 50 hp tractor but it gets the job done and uses minimal fuel. I just dont see needing a 100 hp tractor to rake and ted. Your M 7040 wouldn't be able to pull the discbine but in a pinch you should be able to round bale.
> I look at it this way, if something would happen to your bigger tractor that would prevent you from mowing you wouldn't need the M7040 to bale anyway....if it was the other way around where you could mow with the M7040 but not bale then you would be in a pinch that would make me think about another tractor.
> Another thing to consider is that you know what type of shape your current tractor is in, if you go buy a larger tractor with higher hours it may not be in as nice of shape as the one you have and essentially you traded for a lesser tractor just to have some luxury horsepower that is not essential at this point. I think you may be hard pressed to find a higher horsepower tractor like you want that is as nice as your M7040. You didn't happen to buy it new did you? In my opinion you might be better off sticking with what you have now and when you make some money and expand more in the hay business you could buy you another 100hp tractor. That way you would then have a tractor to mow with, one to Ted and rake with that is easy on fuel, and one to bale with.


Planning on dual rake and hopefully a 6 basket Tedder. Don't need 100+ for those, either, but I find myself going from one field to the other only to have the wrong tractor.

I'm not trying to come off belligerent in any way towards your reply, but what you have to realize is that I'm like a gypsy as a hay farmer. I don't live on a 100-500 acre family farm. My show has to go on the road all the time.. I'm up and down the roads in a tractor pulling an implement like people commute to work in a car from field to field. I have no helper. If I need a tractor at a field, its incredibly helpful if its able to run any of the 4 attachments. I really like the economy and lower fuel consumption of the 70hp tractor, but the newer 126hp tractor rides immeasurably better and can run any implement. It has remote front hydraulics, so it can run my snowplow, too. 
It's a convenience thing to the point where it's almost a necessity. 
I also think it enables me to keep growing the business. I want to be ready and able to take on 250+ acres in the next few years.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I'm not trying to come off belligerent in any way towards your reply, but what you have to realize is that I'm like a gypsy as a hay farmer. I don't live on a 100-500 acre family farm. My show has to go on the road all the time.. I'm up and down the roads in a tractor pulling an implement like people commute to work in a car from field to field. I have no helper..


 I understand what you mean by that because that is my operation exactly. I don't own any of the land I farm and its spread out over 15 miles on small roads full of people that don't know a thing about farming and think I have no business being on the highway. It is an absolute pain in the rear to go from a three acre field and have to travel a few miles down the road to another couple acre field and do that over and over. And I end up being on the road moving equipment as much as I'm in the field and I just can't get the volume of work done that I need to due to the road travel and tiny fields. The only help I have is when it comes time to pick up square hay.

I did not mean to come off overly strong with my first reply but it is just hard for me to accept the extra fuel cost for getting the same job done and myself personally I would have a hard time trading for a tractor that is higher hours and I did not know anything about and is not as nice as the one I have. You may get lucky though and find what you are wanting in nice shape. This is just my opinion and only you know what will work best for your operation and I'm sure you will take everyone's thoughts and make a decision that will be best for you.


----------



## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Do you have to have 4WD? My late FIL bought a CIH 5140 2WD new in '93 I think. It has about 1400 or 1500 hours on it. It has Powershift, which is great, but only has on set of remotes, he must have deleted one set to save some money nothing he had needed two sets back then. They're needed now. Anyway it gave some trouble when it was new, mostly relay problems and the air seat had some issues but knock on wood since then it's been a great tractor. Most expensive repair so far has been the replacement of the rubber fuel lines which got mushy and were being sucked flat. Our mechanic replaced them with top quality Gates fuel line instead of CIH's expensive replacement lines, fuel tank had to dropped on one side to do it. Putting a hydraulic multiplier on the set of remotes, changing out hoses on the disc mower gets old. One thing is there's no neutral position on the reverser of the 5100 series. I'm told that came with the next model the 5200 series. I've seen these tractors on TH and other places with 13 and 14K hours on them. That Cummins engine is a really smooth and is more than enough power for the tractor. Heaviest thing that goes behind it here is a 12' Amco F17 double offset "bog" disc harrow. I've read one of the weakest points on these is the park brake lever and linkage and is expensive to repair. We've driven a Kubota 7040 and it is a bit light and short in the wheelbase, I'm sure it's a great tractor but on rough ground I can see where it would be a bit of a rough ride and Kubota needs to put better seats in their tractors in that size range.

Here's a nice looking 5240:

http://www.fastline.com/v100/Case-IH-5240-MORRISON-FARMS-SMITHVILLE-OH-equipment-detail-d96dd603-38d8-4e8b-9ac2-93be3be0fcb5.aspx


----------



## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

While it is nice to have bigger equipment you also have to pay for it. I know you said that you didn't want to tie up more money the what the M7040 is worth. If you were able to trade for the larger tractor even up I would suspect the higher hours on that machine will mean more repairs. Will you be able to handle the down time to do the repairs youself or the expense to have them done?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: Are there any health issues/concerns that the larger machine would help with? Thinking back problems or joint issues.

My general feeling is it would be better to keep what you have, realiable, adaquate, equipment and grow the business until it becomes mandatory to invest in something else.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

As usual, great, well thought replies. 
I wish I could do without a loader, but I had better not try to go that route. Don't want to make a compromise. 
Yes the M 7040 beats your brains out on bad fields. Light in weight and short on wheelbase and bias tires. ALL my fields are bad.....probably why I was able to get them so easily-nobody else wants them....lol

One thing I notice around here with the bigger hay farmers. None of them own a tractor under 100 HP. Some of the smaller guys do, but I don't want to stay small. In fact, I can't stay small. The business model doesn't work for me. 
The M7040 is a tough little tractor, but I wouldn't mind an upgrade to lower the fatigue factor. Older big tractors are not as comfy as newer ones, but are a lot more comfy than the 7040 on bumps. The taller more balloon like tires and long wheelbase and heavier weight absorb bumps better.
Grateful11- sounds like you and I have a lot of the same dilemma. 
I totally hear you guys on unknown problems......scares the heck out of me.


----------



## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

Hayman1 said:


> Look for a JD 2955- they were good tractors, loved my 2755 which was 2wd. Almost wish I had refurbished it rather than gone with a 6100D. The 8 spd trans with a high low is a hard combo to beat. Most but not all are 2wd but you can get to your price range and have a good machine. The 2755 and 2955 are the machines that I wish JD would put on the market today just as they were originally released.


We have 2955 2wd cab with 265 loader -- very good tractor to use and to service; newer tractors may have better fuel economy. Too bad JD quit with these.


----------



## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> .....One thing I notice around here with the bigger hay farmers. None of them own a tractor under 100 HP. ....


I would doubt they started out with 2 newer tractors that were over 100HP. That could be part of your 3-5 year business plan.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I can appreciate your situation, I've been spread out this year too. I seriously contemplated a towbar on the front of my truck so I could run back and forth quicker. I've got an even smaller kubota as my number 2 tractor and dream of a nice comfy 7040! I did run my large tractor tedding a bit this year and its aweful nice on the back but the other thing is we borrowed a little old IH 584 open station 2wd to ted and rake and shuttle empty wagons with. What a little sweetie for those tasks. It used about 2-3$ per hour in fuel on light work.

Its amazing how well that little tractor rode for its wheelbase. Its also old enough and beat up enough we didn't worry about kids stealing it (no battery) or setting it on fire so we just left it hooked to the tedder or rake as needed for the next morning.


----------



## foz682 (Jan 10, 2013)

If you figure you'll be using the upgrade tractor mainly on the lighter implements, I'd recommend you look for something with an economy PTO. Should save you some fuel plus doubles as a backup tractor for heavier jobs.

I use the economy pto on our massey when spreading fertilizer and occasionally on the rake or tedder if the NH is tied up somewhere else. I haven't used it enough to be able to figure out how much I actually save, but it has to be something, as you're running the pto at 540 @ 1550 RPM's rather than 2000.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> I understand what you mean by that because that is my operation exactly. I don't own any of the land I farm and its spread out over 15 miles on small roads full of people that don't know a thing about farming and think I have no business being on the highway. It is an absolute pain in the rear to go from a three acre field and have to travel a few miles down the road to another couple acre field and do that over and over. And I end up being on the road moving equipment as much as I'm in the field and I just can't get the volume of work done that I need to due to the road travel and tiny fields. The only help I have is when it comes time to pick up square hay.
> I did not mean to come off overly strong with my first reply but it is just hard for me to accept the extra fuel cost for getting the same job done and myself personally I would have a hard time trading for a tractor that is higher hours and I did not know anything about and is not as nice as the one I have. You may get lucky though and find what you are wanting in nice shape. This is just my opinion and only you know what will work best for your operation and I'm sure you will take everyone's thoughts and make a decision that will be best for you.


Farmer Cline, 
Here's a view driving down one of my back roads in my area.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Great view!


----------



## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok I hate to come off as a total jerk but LOL.... If that's a back road, what do the main ones look like? A backroad in my part of the world consists of muddied/rutted up dirt tracks or gravel if you're just very lucky. I have road envy now...

Alrighty, Back on topic...

Have you considered another Kubota to replace your Case? I found this one from a quick tractorhouse search and (I think) it's relatively near you. 110 HP, 2500ish hours, loader, decent tires. $30,000

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7788003


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Farmer Cline,
> Here's a view driving down one of my back roads in my area.


 That road looks like many of the ones I have to move equipment on here in the hills of NC. As you well know those narrow roads are a pain when you have a wide piece of equipment and there is oncoming traffic flying around the curve in front of you. To make matters worse the ones I have to travel on have a lot of traffic.

I sure do like the looks of that dual hay spear.....I bet it is a real time saver to be able to move 2 at a time. If I ever go back into round hay I would have to get me one of those.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FarmerCline said:


> That road looks like many of the ones I have to move equipment on here in the hills of NC. As you well know those narrow roads are a pain when you have a wide piece of equipment and there is oncoming traffic flying around the curve in front of you. To make matters worse the ones I have to travel on have a lot of traffic.
> I sure do like the looks of that dual hay spear.....I bet it is a real time saver to be able to move 2 at a time. If I ever go back into round hay I would have to get me one of those.


Our back roads are 250-350 years old and I don't think they ever widened them!


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Our back roads are 250-350 years old and I don't think they ever widened them!


Those 18th Century Quakers were not driving 100 hp 4wd cab tractors! Was just in Unionville this past weekend and would not have wanted to be towing my GN full of hay.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Farmboy555 said:


> Ok I hate to come off as a total jerk but LOL.... If that's a back road, what do the main ones look like? A backroad in my part of the world consists of muddied/rutted up dirt tracks or gravel if you're just very lucky. I have road envy now...
> 
> Alrighty, Back on topic...
> 
> ...


I'm not replacing a Case. I'm replacing a Kubota.
I always admired you Texas guys, you get all the small bumpy dirt track roads AND a bunch of republicans to hang out with. 
All we have up here is a bunch of super highways, a wussy lifestyle and liberals!!!!
Nobody does it like Texas, and Texans always seem to let us know! Lol


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hayman1 said:


> Those 18th Century Quakers were not driving 100 hp 4wd cab tractors! Was just in Unionville this past weekend and would not have wanted to be towing my GN full of hay.


Did you see the huge hay fire out in Unionville? Burned for 3 days. 2,000 large square bales lost in fire.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Was it on sat or sun? did see large plume of smoke but don't remember what day it was.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It was last weds-Saturday if my limited memory serves me correctly.....


----------



## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Farmer Cline,
> Here's a view driving down one of my back roads in my area.


Our road is like that as well, no way of getting passed with anything in tow.
We occasiosionaly will use a ford 641 to Ted rake and move wagons around. Not the most comfortable thing, but it gets the job done and its lite on fuel.


----------



## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I'm not replacing a Case. I'm replacing a Kubota.
> I always admired you Texas guys, you get all the small bumpy dirt track roads AND a bunch of republicans to hang out with.
> All we have up here is a bunch of super highways, a wussy lifestyle and liberals!!!!
> Nobody does it like Texas, and Texans always seem to let us know! Lol


Ohhh oops I guess I missed that.

Lol thanks, I don't mind the roads much, but they are hell when you're moving hay. The republicans drive me batty though Lol. I've always admired you northerners, I couldn't stand that much snow/cold weather every year. I'd also miss our "big" 15-80 acre fields and the fact that we can lay down unconditioned hay with a disc mower and bale it the next afternoon  . Are all your roads narrow like that? At least some of ours widen out a little, still scary as crap though when driving the boss man's brand new pickup pulling a 12 ft wide, 50,000 dollar cornhead and people won't slow down when meeting you! 

We bale rounds predominantly here, not many squares anymore. Is that a stock Kubota hay fork or did you buy one that's heavier to hold two bales? I'd like to get one but haven't met anyone with experience regarding them yet.

--Troy


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

FCF said:


> I would doubt they started out with 2 newer tractors that were over 100HP. That could be part of your 3-5 year business plan.


Agree. 
You know, without getting a oneself in trouble financially, I agree with the "go big or go home" mindset . I've seen so many guys that stay small and never make it.
I decided I want to take my hay operation to the big time. I'm even having second thoughts about not buying a big square baler. There's a reason most guys around me make big squares....
I thought making lots of 4x5 round bales would set me apart from the others, giving buyers an option to the status quo, but in MY location, big squares are king. 
70hp tractors in better than average condition with a loader bring good money. However, 
100+ HP can 4wd tractors in very good condition with a loader are a tough find.


----------



## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

Just do the math. Do you have a business plan? If yes have you looked at it? How big in how many years? Cash flow can you afford some extra fuel now so you have horsepower later when needed? Can I afford more expensive repairs? Is it a want or a need?

I have to ask myself these questions all the time.....I would love some bigger tractors and implements but just don't have cash for them and honestly don't have enough for them to do. My littler equipment is in good shape and hopefully when I make some more money and expand I too will have some bigger equipment but until then....see above.

Also I have a M9540 and the ride one them is horrible stock. I purchased an air ride to replace the spring suspension in the seat. Cost me $800 Canadian BIG difference....only problem is seat is a little higher in the air so I am going to have to modify steering wheel to make it come to me a little more (I am 6'5") but after all that when doing light work that tractor sips at the fuel. I run a 1411 mower behind it and it knows its their when I am pushing 8-9mph but its good in my fields which are pretty level.

Think about what feels right and do it if the math it right.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah I thought about an air seat for my m7040, too. The air seat in my 126 is much nicer. 
I'm not real confident the $600 would make a big enough difference and it still won't run the discbine or the baler on hills.


----------



## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

Well thats true if you need it to run mower and baler. The fields I run in so far don't have anything I would call a hill or I would need more than the 9540.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

GawasFarm said:


> Well thats true if you need it to run mower and baler. The fields I run in so far don't have anything I would call a hill or I would need more than the 9540.


That's where I'm kinda stuck. There's no sense in upgrading to a bigger tractor in between 75-99 PTOHP. 
I need 100+ to make sure both can run discbine in all conditions. Why go with 85? Unless the 85 would be baler tractor, 126 would be discbine tractor and then keep the M7040 for rake/Tedder, but I can't afford 3 tractors, yet.
I could maybe go cheaper and get an old Ford or Case or get an open station or loader-less tractor.
Would be nice to have discbine on a tractor with no loader.....hmmmm.....


----------



## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

And it begins..... Wouldn`t it be nice to have a tractor for each implement so it could be setup and left. Gonna need a bigger implement shed


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

GawasFarm said:


> And it begins..... Wouldn`t it be nice to have a tractor for each implement so it could be setup and left. Gonna need a bigger implement shed


Sure would.... 
Scared half to death to make this move. Big old tractors with 3k hours scare me, but if you get a good one,,,,,,,,what a relief it would be.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Farm up the road has at least 13 tractors, they rarely have to change implements. Its both good and frustrating I think. When they are close to home its great, but some of their ground is 10-15 miles away. Hard to bring all the tractors at once.


----------



## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Have an older friend who claimed his uncle had a tractor for every piece of equipment. Never unhitched unless there was a tractor issue for that tool. Also said they were all older tractors. To each his own...


----------



## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> Farm up the road has at least 13 tractors, they rarely have to change implements. Its both good and frustrating I think. When they are close to home its great, but some of their ground is 10-15 miles away. Hard to bring all the tractors at once.


 A custom baler friend of mine has 6 tractors. One for the baler, one for the rake, two on disc mowers, one that switches between a disc and discbine and one that runs a tedder.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

For haying i run 5 tractors, all have loaders, 4 are mfwd. 3 on the 567's one or two on hay rakes most of the time unless were caught up and loading out. I use sp discbines for cutting which is cheaper and faster than buying extra tractors and pull types. I still need one smaller to run the square baler and augers during harvest. And a spare multi tractor use would be nice someday. I don't think a guy can have too many tractors.


----------

