# Ripper?



## Russ61 (May 19, 2011)

Probably a dumb question but,what is the difference between a ripper and a chisel plow?I'm guessing the ripper is made to go deeper and break up the hard pan.
Still looking for a plow ,the chisel I found sold the day before I got there...Large equipment auction in Indiana next month and there are both on the auction.
Thanks Russ


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Correct.Ripper designed to go deeper with heavier shanks


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> Correct.Ripper designed to go deeper with heavier shanks


And eat up massive amounts of horsepower and fuel. Not sure but a ripper was a _the_ thing here awhile ago, don't see or hear that much about em anymore.


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## Russ61 (May 19, 2011)

Seems like when I worked for a farmer out of high school they were called an ox plow? 30+ years don't really remember...


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## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Like swmnhay said, the chisel plow is usually lighter and runs up higher in the soil than the ripper. The theory behind a ripper is that it digs deep like moldboard plowing but doesn't pull the organic off of the top, which reduces the soil erosion over the winter months. Still the post-corn tillage implement of choice in IA for those doing conventional tillage.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

There is typically two layers of hardpan in the soil. One ranges about 6-12 inches under the surface and the second ranges about 2.5 feet. A sub-soiler (ripper) is designed to break through the 6-12 inch layer to allow water and roots to access the lower softer soil.

The top layer of hardpan is the one that causes the most problems, especially in no-till areas. The hardpan prevents moisture from moving up/down as needed. Water will move down through the soil until it hits the hardpan, then cause erosion during heavier rains. During dry spells, the water cannot move up from lower depths to where the plant roots are. Also, plant roots, for the most part, cannot penetrate through the hardpan. Certain plants, like turnips, are good for busting up the hardpan.

Around here, the USDA office will not allow farmers to rip their ground because they believe that it causes too much erosion. From my observation and experience, just the opposite is true, PROVIDED the ground is ripped following the contour. Ripping up/down a hill absolutely will cause more erosion; ripping across a hill reduces it.

I consider the ripper one of my best yield tools, but like any tool, it has to be used properly.

And they are fuel hogs!!!!

For more info:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/v...pub&sei-redir=1#search="hardpan depth layers"

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Ultimately though once that hardpan is broke up everything possible should be done to prevent forming a new one. Just read a new study that claims even a Turbo till disturbs the soil tilth too much and can create layers in the soil. I find this highly interesting as we are 100% no till now even on soils we said couldn't be no-tilled. We already had extensive experience with no till on our droughty and lighter soils.

Improving drainage, increasing tire size and having a little more patience while waiting for the ground to dry goes a long ways to eliminating compaction.

Right now we are still looking to replace our grain cart as it's too small and takes more trips across the field, looking at several in the 700 bushel range. Ideal behind this is while it's about 200 bushels more, we can practically double the tire foot print size by using a set of 30.5x32's off a combine we are parting out. Already pull the cart with a 4 wheel drive tractor that has 20.8x42 radial's on it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Ralph what happens if a farmer in your area does rip the ground? How does the USDA police this?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Teslan said:


> Ralph what happens if a farmer in your area does rip the ground? How does the USDA police this?


They will "fine" him with a deduction from his crop payment. Most of the time, it is a neighboring person with a grudge that reports the offender.

BTW: there is no dock for converting hay ground.

Personally, I would estimate that the increase in yield for most years would be more than enough to offset the dock, but there is a certain amount of security in that annual payment that most people just plain aren't willing to give up.

Ralph


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Speaking of ripping up the ground....

Has anyone used any of the pasture renovators? I've read mixed reviews on them. Advantages/disadvantages when compared to traditional aerators? How does renovating/aerating affect hay yields/quality?

Hay King Renovators


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

RockmartGA said:


> Speaking of ripping up the ground....
> 
> Has anyone used any of the pasture renovators? I've read mixed reviews on them. Advantages/disadvantages when compared to traditional aerators? How does renovating/aerating affect hay yields/quality?
> 
> Hay King Renovators


I have a Hay King renovator in addition to the 7 shank sub-soiler. The Hay King works well on sodded soil because of the coulters, but it doesn't rip as deep as a standard sub-soiler. It doesn't leave as much of a ridge as the 7 shank and the shoes aren't quite as wide.

In my experience, it does help.

Ralph


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

RockmartGA said:


> Has anyone used any of the pasture renovators?


My neighbor did a couple of his fields this spring and I'm planning on doing a couple of mine next spring. With the drought it's hard to tell if it did anything for him, but his fields look better than mine this year. This was the first time he'd done it and we both use about the same fertilizer/lime, etc. Mine hasn't been touched since I sprigged five years ago and I found a good used six-shank Hay King. I've heard mixed results on them. A friend has a big Aerway that he swears by but considering what he paid for it, I don't know that it does that much better.


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## gabby (Oct 1, 2011)

RockmartGA said:


> ...Has anyone used any of the pasture renovators? I've read mixed reviews on them. Advantages/disadvantages when compared to traditional aerators? How does renovating/aerating affect hay yields/quality?


I have a 6 shank Hay King and I'm not real impressed with it. It slices neatly through the grass but it doesn't go deep enough to suit me. Want to buy it? haha


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

gabby said:


> I have a 6 shank Hay King and I'm not real impressed with it. It slices neatly through the grass but it doesn't go deep enough to suit me.


A shallow cut seems to be a common complaint. How deep does it go and how deep should it go?

Then there is this style. 
Pasture Reclaimers - Lowery Manufacturing, Inc. Boaz, Alabama
Doesn't have the coulters so it will probably rip up turf, but I imagine the cost would be a lot less than the Hay King style.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The ripper should ideally cut through the hardpan layer. This depth and thickness will depend on your soil type, compaction, etc.

If you have a gas-driven or 3 pt post host digger, you can find the hardpan depth and thickness pretty easily by drilling a couple of holes. Notice at what depth it digs easily, then hard, then easily. When you bust through the hardpan, the diger will act like it's going through butter!

Last year, when I was building my tarp building, the hardpan was so tough that I twisted the pto shaft twice(!) on the post hole digger that I borrowed. Fixing the pto shafts cost me more in time. parts and labor than a new digger would have cost.

Ralph


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## gabby (Oct 1, 2011)

RockmartGA said:


> A shallow cut seems to be a common complaint. How deep does it go and how deep should it go?
> 
> Then there is this style.
> Pasture Reclaimers - Lowery Manufacturing, Inc. Boaz, Alabama
> Doesn't have the coulters so it will probably rip up turf, but I imagine the cost would be a lot less than the Hay King style.


The Hay King goes maybe 4 inches deep.

That other one will will make a mess especially if you have bermudagrass. You will have big hunks of sod on top of the ground.

A subsoiler with a knife front edge will go deep and do a pretty good job of ripping cleanly through the sod. I had one made up and it works well. Had a strip of 1/2" plate welded all the way up the front of the shanks with the leading edge sharpened.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Our subsoiler takes major horsepower/diesel to get it moving. We have a Dave Koenig five shank and we pull it with a John Deere 8310 (310 hp). The onboard computer tells me that im using between 13-15 gallons per hour. My first pass is usually about two feet deep, and my second pass is all the way to the ground.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

An 8310 is 225 hp btw


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## Greyhorse (Jun 22, 2009)

I have a 6 shank Hay King renovator. I've adjusted mine and rebuilt the shanks/rippers so I can go 10-12" deep. The main thing is to pull the coulters all the way up and tilt it so that the shanks really dig in and pull it down in the soil. It takes a sizeable tractor to pull the 6 shank set up this way but I think I get pretty good results although it's hard to tell much with the lack of rain that we've had the last two years. It seems to do the most good on some really hard soil we have where a pipeline went through 50+ years ago and a few other places that are just hard, the soil is so hard in places I break lots of shear bolts and/or pull up chunks of soil the size of a 16" truck tire or better the first time/year I go over it, luckily this is grazing areas so the chunks aren't a big deal.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> An 8310 is 225 hp btw


Is it really? Thanks for telling me more about my BRAND NEW tractor than I would know. I guess I bought the wrong tractor, because I needed something with high horsepower to tear out cotton and lettuce. A 225 hp tractor just won't do that for me.

Maybe thats why I bought a 310 horse tractor. A John Deere 8310 RT. This tractor is 310 engine and 247 PTO. Thanks for your "expertise" on the subject though.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Per tractordata.com 8310 205 pto hp ???
8310RT. 310 hp gross
341hp max
247hp pto
For what it is worth tis a nice monster at any number


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Nitram said:


> Per tractordata.com 8310 205 pto hp ???
> 8310RT. 310 hp gross
> 341hp max
> 247hp pto
> For what it is worth tis a nice monster at any number


Thanks Nitram. I am quite proud of it!

It has been the best decision I have ever made, equipment-wise!


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

LeadFarmer said:


> Is it really? Thanks for telling me more about my BRAND NEW tractor than I would know. I guess I bought the wrong tractor, because I needed something with high horsepower to tear out cotton and lettuce. A 225 hp tractor just won't do that for me.
> 
> Maybe thats why I bought a 310 horse tractor. A John Deere 8310 RT. This tractor is 310 engine and 247 PTO. Thanks for your "expertise" on the subject though.


Yeah nice tractor. I have 4 8345r that pull balers. I got them so I did not have to deal with the emission BS. If I have to do any ripping I used one of our 9630.

If you would of put the rt I would of know what it was. sorry for the mistake.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> Yeah nice tractor. I have 4 8345r that pull balers. I got them so I did not have to deal with the emission BS. If I have to do any ripping I used one of our 9630.
> 
> If you would of put the rt I would of know what it was. sorry for the mistake.


Lots of 8345R pulling Balers around here too. Sorry for my bad attitude, I'm still learning to better deal with my stress level.

I realized afterwards as we'll that I hadn't put RT and that we were talking about two completely different tractors!

See lots of 9630 RT out here too. Most of the hot shot, big time lettuce boys run something comparable. I'd love to hook one to our lil Koenig and see how fast I can rip!


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