# Harvest Tec automatic applicator moisture accuracy



## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

How accurate is the moisture tester on the harvest Tec system? I have a bht-2 moisture meter and it is way off. I know some on here like the bht-2 but I have no faith in mine at all. I would like to get a automatic applicator, but if it's moisture meter is as off as my bht-2 it would be useless to me. Also has harvest Tec ironed out the kinks in the automatic applicator. I have ready bad and good reviews. Also how good does the automatic on option work?


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi Nate

What are you verifying the BHT-2 with, to determine its not working right? I'm asking because I'm looking at buying that setup. I called Harvest Tec and they say there auto moisture tester setup. Is a 2 star wheel and is accurate + and - one %


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## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

Are you talking big or small bales? My experience is strictly big bales. The Harvest Tec moisture sensor with the 2 star wheels is spot on as far as I am concerned. I do not carry a hand held in either tractor and rely strictly on Harvest Tec moisture and have for a number of years. Personally I like that the star wheels are located at the start of a bale so after a couple of plunger strokes I know what the moisture is.

The auto setup is good and bad so you have to use it as a tool and not a fix all. It has been my experience that since the application begins after it senses a wet spot the acid really doesn't travel in the bale. If you are going into a place where it is on and off and on and off it needs to be run in manual and turned on.

The biggest problem we see is the nozzles need to be blown off each night before we run because they more or less heal over from the night before.

Buy the electronic eyes to turn off the applicator on the ends.

I am assuming the other tester you are having problems with is the 2 carriage bolt setup? If so the more perssure you put on it the higher it reads.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

What do you mean by carriage bolt set up?

It's a small square baled Massey 1837

How can the star wheels tell if there is a wet slug in the middle of the bale or side of bale or bottom of bale? Opposite of the star wheels

Well last year I installed it. Baled hay and i knew I was baling afalfa that was probably in the 20-25 percent range and it was telling me it was 12-16%. It's clear when alfalfa is that low of moisture because you have leaf shatter really bad. I knew just by touch that it wasn't right. What broke the camels back for me is I baled some hay that was had water standing under it and the hay was setting on top of the stubble. When I baled it the pickup grabbed the hay and drug it through the water soaking it. The bht-2 said it was 18% literally had water dripping out of the bales. I just baled this hay to get it off the field, in not way did I think it would keep, but come on 18%? Lol


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Where do you have the sensors mounted on the 1837? If on the sides of the bale chamber it will read different. I use the handheld unit to verify and then adjust the offset on the bht-2.....


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

We've had an automatic Harvest Tec applicator on a 2x3 big square for about 10 years now. I trust the moisture reading completely. We added the hay sensor on the pickup after the first year of use. Never have had a problem with the system in any way and has proven to be very effective in allowing us to bale quality dry hay that wouldn't keep otherwise.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Somedevildawg yes they are on the side. I wanted to mount them like vol did but the top tension bar on my baler is a different and made it almost impossible to mount the way he did on his baler. I called agritonics twice and they said mount them on the side like NH and JD said it wouldn't matter even after I thought it would. I tried adjusting it as well with a hand held but still wasn't right.

Gearclash have you ever had hay under 30% that molded when the system was on automatic?


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## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

After looking what you have up on the net I see it has a contact strip unlike the delmhorst (carriage bolt style) sensor.

A wet slug will be sensed by the star wheels and if the slug is so small that they don't sense it you will never know it is is a bale and it will cause no problems.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I have a IPad already, wonder if the new automatic system will be less $$ since you don't have to buy a monitor?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Nate926 said:


> How accurate is the moisture tester on the harvest Tec system? I have a bht-2 moisture meter and it is way off. I know some on here like the bht-2 but I have no faith in mine at all. I would like to get a automatic applicator, but if it's moisture meter is as off as my bht-2 it would be useless to me. Also has harvest Tec ironed out the kinks in the automatic applicator. I have ready bad and good reviews. Also how good does the automatic on option work?


Either re-calibrate, do a software update, or send it back and have AT look it over. You obviously have a problem as there are too many satisfied customers otherwise. I would also look closely at installation.

Regards, Mike


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I think the star wheel moisture deal is the best. For a time I ran them in the same baler as a bht-1. There were some days I "believed" the 1 was more accurate.

As I understand it the theory is the same on both styles. The instrument is measuring electrical resistance between 2 contact points. The star wheels are able to stick the contact point inside the bale and self clean so the should be better.

I now run the bht2. Several years it seemed right on, last year I "believed" it was off so I offset it 5 points on grass mixture. Pulled cables off this winter and both had some damage I hadn't seen when mounted.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Nate926 said:


> Somedevildawg yes they are on the side. I wanted to mount them like vol did but the top tension bar on my baler is a different and made it almost impossible to mount the way he did on his baler. I called agritonics twice and they said mount them on the side like NH and JD said it wouldn't matter even after I thought it would. I tried adjusting it as well with a hand held but still wasn't right.
> 
> *Gearclash have you ever had hay under 30% that molded when the system was on automatic?*


No, but I have to qualify that by saying the highest average moisture reading at the end of a field was 25 or 26%. If the Harvest Tec says that is the average, there will be a lot of readings that are 30%. We always run our Harvest Tec in automatic, except in cornstalks I will run manual just to observe the moisture level. Its not worth applying preservative to stalks. My suggestion to Harvest Tec automatic users is to set the application cut in rates a few points lower than what is recommended for the Stage 1 level, especially when baling grass. This builds in a little insurance, and the extra cost is minimal. At minimum rate we put on $.50 of preservative per 500# bale, maximum rate would be $2.50. That assumes that the entire bale triggers those rates. The automatic will only apply as needed.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Ok last question, on my current manual applicator if I leave it off for awhile the nozzles will clog alfalfa leaf dust and won't come on. Has this ever been a problem for the guys running a automatic system?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I haven't ever seen a problem with nozzle plugging.


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

Below is an answer that I posted to a question asked in a different thread by Gearclash (good to see him here too  ) The question and my answer are copied, this explains a little about how these style testers work.

Gearclash, on 11 Mar 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:



Gearclash said:


> Dohrmann, maybe you can settle this question I've had for years. When applying higher rates of propionic acid preservative, does the presence of the preservative in the hay affect the moisture reading of a baler chamber mounted moisture sensor? I'm thinking it may make the reading show a bit high?


Gearclash, That is a great question. Below I have copied the statement that is found in the Delmhorst Owner's Manual regarding this.

*Begin Copy:*
Use of Preservatives
Hay preservative or stabilizers may also have an affect on
meter readings. Normally a bale of hay treated with preservative
will read higher than a bale of the same hay that had
not been treated. The readings typically increase by 2-4%
points, and 24-48 hours after treatment, the readings
between the bales tends to equalize.
*End Copy:*

There are a few other factors to consider. These testers (Delmhorst, AgraTronix, Lightning B & HarvestTec) are basically reading the conductivity that is sent from Pad/Pin A across an insulator to Pad/Pin B. A increase in conductivity is determined to be an increase in moisture and an algorithm has been created to output a moisture based on the rate of conductivity. So, keep in mind that minerals also conduct current, so ground with higher mineral content which the plant will absorb will display a higher reading due to the mineral content. We do not feel that these type of testers are to be used to determine exact moisture for product application or storage but to be used as a guide to determine what is happening in the field over the course of time. That stated of the 3 listed above, I do believe that the HarvestTec unit does provide the best reading due to the larger sample size, but with all of them it requires a pack to be made so the reading is post product application (if applying product). Microwave Testers (Gazeeka) appear to be very accurate as well as the Near Infrared (NIR) technology that is being used in the forage harvesters.

Thanks for the question, I hope this information is helpful for you...and maybe a few others


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

Nate926 said:


> Ok last question, on my current manual applicator if I leave it off for awhile the nozzles will clog alfalfa leaf dust and won't come on. Has this ever been a problem for the guys running a automatic system?


Nate926,

Do you happen to have any photos of the installation of your nozzles? If so, please post.

What type of hay preservative are you currently running?

What size nozzles are you currently running and do you happen to know what size (micron/mesh) filter screen you have installed. Nozzles can get plugged up 2 different way, from the inside and from the outside.

Having the proper filtration installed is key for protecting the nozzles from being plugged up from the inside out. Keep in mind that a finer filter will have to be cleaned out more often otherwise it will plug the system.

Plugging from the outside is not as common but can be caused by a few different factors. One is the type of product - some products will either be sticky or leave a film behind when they dry which can close up the opening of the nozzle and plug it. Another is environmental conditions - different ambient and forage moisture can change how "sticky" the forage becomes, the stickier it is the more likely it is to actually adhere to the nozzle. In addition to that, oddly enough, extremely dry forage conditions will cause a much finer dust that can attach or even enter into the nozzle and cause it to plug.

This brings me to another question, does your system have a check valve installed to prevent siphoning and minimize dripping after your system is turned off? If it is, is it installed close to the nozzles? Not having a check valve in some systems, can cause the system to drip and at a certain point, the product can "backflow" to the tank which may cause a slight suction through the nozzle opening which can draw in finer materials and cause this plugging.

Just a couple of things to look at that may minimize or eliminate this problem. It is something that we do hear about, but it is not a very common occurrence at all.

Best of luck.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Nate926 said:


> Ok last question, on my current manual applicator if I leave it off for awhile the nozzles will clog alfalfa leaf dust and won't come on. Has this ever been a problem for the guys running a automatic system?


Yes,I experienced tip plugging with harvestec automatic system. This was using their supplied bracket, following instructions they provided for my model. Hay was in continual contact with tips any time the crop was heavy. Tiny pieces of stem would would actually be sticking out of the orifice. This led to a few blown hoses and some untreated hay. I quickly made a new bracket that moved the tips out and over pickup where I could SEE them. Much better. I still have to clean them from time to time when I start but not during use.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Dohrmann I have never had any foreign material in my tank it's always clean. I will post pics tomorrow, but it's a inline baler so naturally these less room for the nozzles above the pickup. I'm running juice hay preservative. I will check my nozzle sizes and screen sizes, but my screens have always been super clean when I do check them so I feel it's clugging up from the outside. My system is a manual crop are system and doesn't have a check valve my nozzles do drip And when I clean my nozzles there always clogged just inside the nozzle, but nothing ever makes it to the screens just barely inside the nozzle. I bet a check valve would help now that I think about it.

Are the screens with the ball check valve any good?


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

Nate926 said:


> Dohrmann I have never had any foreign material in my tank it's always clean. I will post pics tomorrow, but it's a inline baler so naturally these less room for the nozzles above the pickup. I'm running juice hay preservative. I will check my nozzle sizes and screen sizes, but my screens have always been super clean when I do check them so I feel it's clugging up from the outside. My system is a manual crop are system and doesn't have a check valve my nozzles do drip And when I clean my nozzles there always clogged just inside the nozzle, but nothing ever makes it to the screens just barely inside the nozzle. I bet a check valve would help now that I think about it.
> 
> Are the screens with the ball check valve any good?


Nate,

Sorry for my delay, I was traveling for work this week.

I honestly would not recommend the ball nozzle checks, with screen or without. Here are a couple of reasons.

1: I honestly don't like the nozzle screens to start with, they are a very small filter surface area and due to the small surface area, they can plug quite fast. We recommend having the proper filter installed before the pump, as this protects the pump and everything downstream, including the nozzles. We only suggest nozzle screens in rate occasions when used as a secondary filter - a course or medium screen in the main filter with a finer nozzle screen.

2: Most of the ball nozzle checks are about a 5 PSI open, this is quite minimal. A higher pressure check would be preferred as it will not drip as long or be as subject to siphoning.

3: If a little particulate settles between the ball and its seat, it will continue to leak...just a little something, doesn't take much.

4: We have had alot of clients that lose their nozzle checks when they change nozzles.

If you happen to have 3/8" ID tubing, we offer a 10 PSI in-line diaphragm check valve. Simply cut the hose just before the first nozzle, slide the hose clamps onto each side of the cut, insert the check valve, clamp it in place. You won't have to be concerned with losing it.

Have a Happy Easter


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

There are a number of ways to introduce self induced problems.

One is not to flush the system with water and baking soda between outings. At least here with our HARD water reacting with the acid. 
I used a Check Valve Filter with each spray nozzle.

If you Think you have a quantity problem just add another spray nozzle to the system.

If you are baling hay that is still not completely cured and only surface leaf moisture you NEED the sensor to be on the cut side of the bale chamber. This way your system will be seeing leaf moisture as well as stem moisture.

If you are baling hay that is cured to the stem snapping stage of dryness and baling with the night dew you are better off with the sensor on the side opposite the knives.

A star wheel SHOULD give a reasonably average moisture reading.

BUT if you have more pressure on the bale chamber than usual the moisture will read higher than actual.
No problem just cut back on the bale weight and pressure and the moisture will read at a comfortable moisture level, regardless of the actual moisture level. Lead you down the Prim Rose Path.

Keep your strokes per bale between the high and low range for that baler. If the operators Manual suggest 15 strokes per bale, and you think you have a wet slug coming drop down a gear and bale at 20 strokes per bale. 
But if you think your hay is ok you may do ok at 10 strokes per bale.

You want to be able to hear each individual stroke. 
If you have a hydro drive it is easy to adjust the ground speed.
Me I have a clutch and a gear shift and drop a gear to lower the speed over the ground. Go up a gear to stuff hay into the baler faster.
At 15 strokes per bale at a 34" bale length I bale a 55 lb bale. This will be a flake or wedge being roughly 2" wide. @ 20 strokes/min results in less than a 1.7" flake. @ 10 strokes per flake is about 3.4" flake.

Clear as MUD?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have ran the automatic unit on my round baler for years, actually it's on it's second baler. While it won't always give a perfect reading compared to a hand tester or microwave, it takes many more samples per bale than you could by hand. I've learned over the years to turn it on, and let it go.

I agree a well, I fudge the set points a point lower than recommended by the preservative manufacturer.

Before I had my Circle C's I'd buy totes of acid and set it to start applying at the lowest moisture it would let me, basically applying the minimum all the time to prevent sweating when stacked, came out to less than $4/ton. Now with the Circle C's and the better conditioning I believe the Harvest Tec gets a better reading of the actual moisture since the stems are cracked almost the entire length. I set it at the settings recommended by Hay Guard and run those.


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## Johnny Ringo (Sep 10, 2019)

Just so I understand, if the moisture tester is reading 19% in the bale chamber after its tied. I think I would want to turn on the spray and watch moisture go down. From what I'm hearing is the moisture tester will go up when the spray is applied, so are we looking at a reading of 21%???????????


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## Johnny Ringo (Sep 10, 2019)

I was reading a few of the topics on the moisture testers, if you have a reading of 20% you should turn on the spray. Continue to bale and you should see the moisture go up or down??????? In this case I think the moisture reading will go up do to the fact you just introduced liquid to the next bale to be tested. Am I thinking right????


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

At 20% moisture you would be applying 4 lbs of proprionic acid product per ton of hay. That’s 0.2% by weight. Methinks that won’t show on the moisture monitor. Me also thinks that is way below acceptable margin of error in moisture sensor calibration.


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