# No more antiques



## Mike120

This morning I was tying re-bar for the piers I'm putting in for some arena lights. I got the ties when I picked up the re-bar They'd break after a few twists, so I went and got some old ties I found when I was looking for my pig-tail. The last time I poured any concrete was about 5 years ago and I forgot I had them. They worked fine. I checked and the new ones were one gauge smaller, but labeled "heavy duty".

Tying re-bar is not mentally challenging and I got to thinking about how quality is declining in almost everything we buy. I came to the conclusion that adults today may be the last generation to know what an antique is or have any connections with previous generations. My old '85 Ford 7710 is 27 years old and will probably outlast me. What kind of shape will a 2012 model tractor be in 2039.....will you even be able to buy parts for it? What will our legacy be for our grandchildren? An iPad or a DVD player that doesn't work?

I came to the conclusion years ago that we had already reached the end of recorded history. How many of you can read the data you stored on 8", 51/4" or 31/2" floppy disks.....How many of you younger guys even remember what a 51/4" floppy disk was? We have stone carvings, papyrus scrolls, parchment, books, etc to tell us about our ancestors. What will future archaeologists be able to tell about our civilization?

Suddenly the sun came out from behind the clouds bathing me in light and I realized that this might be our greatest gift to future generations......No one will remember Obama!


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## downtownjr

Agree on the poor quality of many things you buy for the farm.

What I like about old tractors like the Farmall H I have is that it will run forever. It was built in 1940 and since it was gone over I bet it will be still be running when Zach is a 100 years old! Will not be able to say that about 2012 anything.


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## slowzuki

Every generation thinks the new fangled stuff won't last, some will, some won't. How many here have an old broken pocket watch from a long time ago? Try and get that fixed!

Re data, my father complains about photos not being on paper anymore, keeps saying we won't have any photos to look at from this generation. Meanwhile I see people cleaning out their parents homes throwing photo albums in dumpsters. No idea who the people are so pitch them, at least now its not hard to keep the photos, I think a lot more of them will persist.


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## deadmoose

Most people only care about price. Not quality. In the end the cheapest one always costs more.


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## gradyjohn

Ha! That's the benefit of a wire square baler. I have a role of wire that broke in the middle and could not find the end ... The manufacture made it good + an extra box. Got enough to do your piers and repair your fence.


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## mlappin

gradyjohn said:


> Ha! That's the benefit of a wire square baler. I have a role of wire that broke in the middle and could not find the end ... The manufacture made it good + an extra box. Got enough to do your piers and repair your fence.


If your tieing enough rebar you want the proper ties and the tool to twist em. I don't do much concrete either but the tool to twist rebar ties is priceless.


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## JD3430

Agree on the "cheap" factor. Just truck on down to a Walmart, walk through the store and see if you can find much of anything that'll last more than 1-2 years.

I think the tractors that were made to last "forever" went away about 20-25 years ago.

I think what you may see next is a law to pull old, polluting tractors out of service or we'll have to pay "carbon credits" for them according to how much they pollute in the hours per year they are run (just another way to tax us).
I was at tractor dealer today to get some parts. Sat in a new 60 series kubota. It has a very expensive exhaust emissions system. Tractor won't run if system is not working. So now a farmer is dependent upon an emissions system working properly to get cows fed, crops harvested.

Sadly, we have put our government in the hands of ivy league lawyers and we are going to pay dearly for it.


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## mlappin

I started out with a Apple II+, no hard drive, fed it 5 1/4's every time you wanted to start a new program. It was the pits. I remember my first IBM PC had a HUGE 1 gigabyte HDD.

I pay for quality tools so that's something that will still be around.

I might go a little overboard on remodeling this house as well. I don't want to do it again at 80 and I don't want the next person to have to do it again far as structural repairs go.

When we remodeled the kitchen anything that looked like it had any water damage got ripped out and replaced with treated wood, treated subfloor as well. Used treated compliant floor screws and dipped them in wood glue before running them in. Heads also got a dap of wood glue to keep them from ever backing out. Also placed flashing on top of the 12"x12" beam to deflect any water in case of a leak. All the old wood was treated with Timbor then got two coats of clear poly to seal it. All the cabinets were flipped over and had the bases sealed then had two coats of clear poly in case of a leak. Used 2" clear PVC tubing thru the floors and siliconed that to the holes in the floor then ran my lines thru them in case of condensation. No water can get between the floor and subfloor this way. Bottom foot of the walls behind the lower cabinets, sink, refrigerator, and dishwasher all got cement board and that was sealed to the vinyl floor in case of a leak. Used caulk where the dishwasher sits to build a little dike so if we ever have a leak the water can't get behind the cabinets and has to drain thru the tube I installed in the floor for the supply lines.

I do sh*t _once_, if it needs done twice I must have got lazy somewhere.

Bathroom is next after I enclose the porch we added this spring and get the half bath done there. Completely stripping the bathroom. Old floor sills are true native 2"x12"s on 24" centers. Adding between those to get down to 12"s. Completely removing the original tongue and groove oak subfloor and replacing with treated subfloor then cement board. Adding in floor electric heat then a ceramic floor over that. Moving the door over a few inches to get a wider tub and moving a window as well to get a longer tub. Will be installing a whirlpool tub to finish it off. Like the sign says above my tool box "if you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you ever have time to do it again later?"


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## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> Agree on the "cheap" factor. Just truck on down to a Walmart, walk through the store and see if you can find much of anything that'll last more than 1-2 years.
> 
> I think the tractors that were made to last "forever" went away about 20-25 years ago.
> 
> I think what you may see next is a law to pull old, polluting tractors out of service or we'll have to pay "carbon credits" for them according to how much they pollute in the hours per year they are run (just another way to tax us).
> I was at tractor dealer today to get some parts. Sat in a new 60 series kubota. It has a very expensive exhaust emissions system. Tractor won't run if system is not working. So now a farmer is dependent upon an emissions system working properly to get cows fed, crops harvested.
> 
> Sadly, we have put our government in the hands of ivy league lawyers and we are going to pay dearly for it.


Sucks to be us. The producers. Workers. Investors. That will be taken from.


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## RockmartGA

What really chaps my butt is when something needs a repair and the cost of the replacement part makes it more economical to toss the item and buy new.

Case in point: I've got a push mower that has a plastic gas tank that leaks. I've tried repairing it, but the repair doesn't last long. Went to the lawnmower shop and a replacement tank costs $35. The mower is several years old and probably worth less than $50. Unless I can locate a used tank, it just doesn't make sense to repair.

One thing you will notice on the newer tractors is that fiberglass and plastic has replaced metal. I regularly use an old Ford 5000 tractor around the land for bushhogging, etc. That old horse is bulletproof. No fiberglass there.


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## Teslan

RockmartGA said:


> What really chaps my butt is when something needs a repair and the cost of the replacement part makes it more economical to toss the item and buy new.
> 
> Case in point: I've got a push mower that has a plastic gas tank that leaks. I've tried repairing it, but the repair doesn't last long. Went to the lawnmower shop and a replacement tank costs $35. The mower is several years old and probably worth less than $50. Unless I can locate a used tank, it just doesn't make sense to repair.
> 
> One thing you will notice on the newer tractors is that fiberglass and plastic has replaced metal. I regularly use an old Ford 5000 tractor around the land for bushhogging, etc. That old horse is bulletproof. No fiberglass there.


But a new mower will cost more then $50. If the rest of the mower runs good then maybe $35 isn't so bad for the new tank.


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## somedevildawg

Can't believe I missed this post, I was thinking of that the other day, antiques as we know them are truly a thing of the past. Replaced my moms hot water heater not long ago, it was installed in 1960. I'm sure our "carbon footprint" was high in those days......plenty of hot water tho.....better stock up antiques, but which ones???? Man there's a lot of em


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## deadmoose

My sister's fridge just went out. After much research she found that the higher the "efficiency" the shorter the product life. So instead of paying a few more bucks on electric you buy a new one every 5-7 years. Then pay to get rid of it.

The "green" people never look at the big picture. Everything comes with compromise. Some unfortunately dont look at what it is.


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## slowzuki

Nothing to do with environmentalists and big picture. Company wants to advertise an efficient fridge that will save you money. To do that you need an efficient heat exchanger in the fridge for the compressor to run efficiently. The long life way to do it is make your evaporator bigger. Thats costs more money so they just use thinner aluminum tubing, I'm talking paper thin, that leaks far more easily. You pay attention though and folks aren't interested in keeping things as long either. We get so much stuff for free because our friends want to replace stuff every 5 years and throw out the old. Hardly anyone cares how long it will last anymore.



deadmoose said:


> My sister's fridge just went out. After much research she found that the higher the "efficiency" the shorter the product life. So instead of paying a few more bucks on electric you buy a new one every 5-7 years. Then pay to get rid of it.
> 
> The "green" people never look at the big picture. Everything comes with compromise. Some unfortunately dont look at what it is.


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## haybaler101

Besides, if every company makes a product that last for 30 years, kinda work yourself out of a job pretty quick. That is why everything we buy now is disposable, from appliances to autos to farm equipment. If it wears out in five years, you can sell a new one.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> Besides, if every company makes a product that last for 30 years, kinda work yourself out of a job pretty quick. That is why everything we buy now is disposable, from appliances to autos to farm equipment. If it wears out in five years, you can sell a new one.


Planned obsolescence is the technical term.


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## JD3430

Have you ever explored the topic of "solar flares"?
Everything electronic will be wiped out that's not surrounded by a faraday cage. Happened in the 1850's and the 1920's and caused major problems and we were barely using electric, not to mention electronics. Now that we're 100% dependent on electronics, we're real vulnerable and guess what? Our sun is flaring up as I type.

We'll be wantin those "antiques" back real bad when that happens. I bet "electronics protection devices" will be the next "Y2K".


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## mlappin

Use a old microwave oven to place your electronics in according to the doom dayers.


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## JD3430

Yeah, but that means our cars, our computers, cell phones, TV/radios, will be ruined.
No satelites, internet, etc. either.
Talk about total chaos.
I think you'll see the "EMP" will be the next weapon we develop to render enemies weapons useless. I was just at a friends house today. He bought a miltary truck. Kind of like a more modern duece and a half. He said it was completely non-electronic so it would run after a electro-magnetic pulse.

"Use a old microwave oven to place your electronics in according to the doom dayers."

The only problem with that is we won't know when it hits us until it's too late. It's over in a matter of minutes.


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## deadmoose

Jd look at the bright side... when the "stuff" hits the fan the "gangsta" is going to shoot 10 rounds at you with his Glock. With it sideways. From too far away. Then he is out. His family will be on tv asking for government assistance. Some rifleman will only use one round here. His (or her) family will be busy at home reloading, canning, and chopping firewood.

Even if they get up to 75% eventually they will lose. The day the free checks do not come and they riot how long will they make it? The ones who have never killed dinner? Or earned an honest dollar?


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> I think you'll see the "EMP" will be the next weapon we develop to render enemies weapons useless. I was just at a friends house today. He bought a miltary truck. Kind of like a more modern duece and a half. He said it was completely non-electronic so it would run after a electro-magnetic pulse.
> 
> "Use a old microwave oven to place your electronics in according to the doom dayers."
> 
> The only problem with that is we won't know when it hits us until it's too late. It's over in a matter of minutes.


True doomsday preppers have two of everything, one they use and one stored away.

Super 770, Super 88, 1600, 1855, 2-110, another 2-110, 4-175, 4-210 and a MF 4880, all tractors with one hundred percent mechanical lift pumps and one hundred percent mechanical injection pumps. Don't even need a battery in the first six to get running if you can roll them down a hill or bump start em. Also have two straight trucks with totally mechanical injection pumps and a kill cable instead of a solenoid.


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## somedevildawg

Alright Mlappin, we r fixin to nominate u for next season u keep it up......


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## SVFHAY

This is a great topic. Do you ever feel like a rock in the middle of a stream yelling STOP! Problem is eventually even the big ones get worn down.

On the subject of EMP's, I just read the book One second after. Scary stuff. Not very likely to happen on a large scale though. Now a large solar event will happen. I'm no engineer but that has the potential to affect a lot of people. How angry would an urban population be with several weeks of no electricity ?


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## rjmoses

This thread makes a great argument for investing in guns, ammo, old tools and books.

Books to figure out how to survive when all hell breaks loose;
Old tools to build a new life.
Guns and ammo to protect what you've built.

Most grocery stores only carry a 3 day food supply--when people get hungry, they get mean!

Ralph

I never throw anything away, my father never threw anything away, my grandfathers never threw anything away--what a junk pile!


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## Mike120

JD3430 said:


> I think you'll see the "EMP" will be the next weapon we develop to render enemies weapons useless.


We know the Russians have had them for a while, so I expect we've had them for a long time as well....We just don't know what type they are. They don't need to be nuclear. The Chinese have been messing with them for 9-10 years.


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## mlappin

rjmoses said:


> Most grocery stores only carry a 3 day food supply--when people get hungry, they get mean!


I had a gov/econ teacher in high school, did his time in the marines then taught school. Eugene the marine took no BS from any student ever.

He said something along the lines of any smart dictator makes sure his subjects are well fed, people with full tummies will put up with atrocities against them a lot longer than those that are going hungry.


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## Mike120

mlappin said:


> He said something along the lines of any smart dictator makes sure his subjects are well fed, people with full tummies will put up with atrocities against them a lot longer than those that are going hungry.


There is an old Latin saying "Artificial docuit fames" that translates "Hunger teaches new skills"


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## JD3430

SVFHAY said:


> This is a great topic. Do you ever feel like a rock in the middle of a stream yelling STOP! Problem is eventually even the big ones get worn down.
> 
> On the subject of EMP's, I just read the book One second after. Scary stuff. Not very likely to happen on a large scale though. Now a large solar event will happen. I'm no engineer but that has the potential to affect a lot of people. How angry would an urban population be with several weeks of no electricity ?


That's the truth. You can prep all you want, but the millions of morons on food stamps and welfare wont prep for it. They only prep their mailbox tobe ready to receive checks. They'll be on the march for food & heat.
I have a lot of shotgun shells and plenty of .40 cal ammo, but this would be something even our armed forces couldn't handle. I hear estimates of 2-3 years before life would return to normal. Marshall law would be a joke.

One of my customers is VERY worried about this. Has 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel always topped off tank. Big genset runs on diesel. Has 500-1000 lbs of beef in the freezers and lots of crops. I joke with him that he'll be the FIRST to get hit because he'll be the only one with anything to steal !!


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## mlappin

mlappin said:


> I had a gov/econ teacher in high school, did his time in the marines then taught school. Eugene the marine took no BS from any student ever.
> 
> He said something along the lines of any smart dictator makes sure his subjects are well fed, people with full tummies will put up with atrocities against them a lot longer than those that are going hungry.


hmmm...keep the people well fed, record number of folks on food stamps.....


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## JD3430

mlappin said:


> hmmm...keep the people well fed, record number of folks on food stamps.....


uh huh.


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## deadmoose

How many are recognize an animal and link it with what it produces? Ie seeing a steer and recognizing it as beef? Let alone having the aptitude to successfully slaughter and butcher it? I am sure the mexicans and hmong could. But the born "professional poor"?


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## Mike120

This is how I see a cow.....


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