# Preservative on Round Bales



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

I just installed a Harvest Tec automatic system on my Vermeer 605 baler. I baled 96 tons of alfalfa and used about 52 gallons of propionic acid. The moistures were from 20% to high. The hay felt fairly dry though using the old hands on method. Will the bales keep, and will they sag when cured? How soon can you feed the treated hay?

When adding that much juice to the bale, will the juice make the moisture readout higher, causing the system to dump more juice into the bale?

Made 15 more bales this afternoon on alfalfa that was cut on Tuesday, rained on yesterday, and seemed pretty dry today, but humidity levels were so high it was making the hay feel tough. More rain was on its way. Moisture reading showed 23% to wet. The unit was saying it was pumping a lot of juice on. Hope it works. Any advice is appreciated!

Actually, I hope the sun will come out some time and dry the hay out naturally so I don't have to use the stuff.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

My manual (Vermeer) says adding preservative will cause higher reading on moisture sensor.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

how much do the bales weigh does not sound like to much juice


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

If I figured it correctly, you put 416 lbs of acid (8 lbs/gallon) on 96 tons or about 4 lbs/ton. This is the rate for 16-20% moisture. For 25-32%, you should have been putting on about 16 lbs/ton meaning you should have used up to about 1500 lbs (just under 200 gallons) of acid.

My questions are: Did you weigh your bales? Did you maybe mean 96 bales? Was it consistently high moisture or were there dry spots?

My application rate is 4# for 16-20%, 8# for 20-25%, 16# for 25+.

Hope this helps

Ralph


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> If I figured it correctly, you put 416 lbs of acid (8 lbs/gallon) on 96 tons or about 4 lbs/ton. This is the rate for 16-20% moisture. For 25-32%, you should have been putting on about 16 lbs/ton meaning you should have used up to about 1500 lbs (just under 200 gallons) of acid.
> 
> My questions are: Did you weigh your bales? Did you maybe mean 96 bales? Was it consistently high moisture or were there dry spots?
> 
> ...


This is what I was thinking but we do not have automatic system so we often over apply . Maybe the automatic would be good for us it would save juice .


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> This is what I was thinking but we do not have automatic system so we often over apply . Maybe the automatic would be good for us it would save juice .


It does save juice. Also saves stress when baling.
Barn rope is asking the same questions I have. 
The harvest Tec readout will say for example, 23% going into the bale. Then after the bale is made and ejected, it reads 28%.

I notice this even when I run in manual mode through fairly dry hay, too. I notice readings going in of say 15-17%.
Then when the bale is made, it'll read 19-20%. Frustrating because it makes me feel like the bale is ruined. I have heard that new bales have a higher reading, though.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

barnrope said:


> I just installed a Harvest Tec automatic system on my Vermeer 605 baler. I baled 96 tons of alfalfa and used about 52 gallons of propionic acid. The moistures were from 20% to high. The hay felt fairly dry though using the old hands on method. Will the bales keep, and will they sag when cured? How soon can you feed the treated hay?
> 
> When adding that much juice to the bale, will the juice make the moisture readout higher, causing the system to dump more juice into the bale?
> 
> ...


It gets expensive to use the crop saver, doesn't it? 
I turned my pumps down to a setting that puts out an amounting between dew moisture and stem moisture. I can't afford to apply $5 worth per bale. Intuition tells me that the producers of this stuff want you to use more than you really need. I dialed it back on a field I did 3 weeks ago. I dug deep into a bale and it amazed me how moist it was, but not dusty.


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

endrow said:


> how much do the bales weigh does not sound like to much juice


1500 -1700 lbs.


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

rjmoses said:


> If I figured it correctly, you put 416 lbs of acid (8 lbs/gallon) on 96 tons or about 4 lbs/ton. This is the rate for 16-20% moisture. For 25-32%, you should have been putting on about 16 lbs/ton meaning you should have used up to about 1500 lbs (just under 200 gallons) of acid.
> 
> My questions are: Did you weigh your bales? Did you maybe mean 96 bales? Was it consistently high moisture or were there dry spots?
> 
> ...


There were 124 bales. My baler has scales on it and the monitor shows bales per hour, tons per hour, moisture ect. The Harvest Tec monitor also shows moisture and the two moisture readings vary, but on average are the same. The rates are set up the same as yours. The moisture bounced all around from 20% to reading high.

Sounds as if the Harvest Tec equipment is doing what it is supposed to. Will the bales keep well, and if they do will they sag like bales that are rolled wet without acid? Thanks , Tom


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> It gets expensive to use the crop saver, doesn't it?
> I turned my pumps down to a setting that puts out an amounting between dew moisture and stem moisture. I can't afford to apply $5 worth per bale. Intuition tells me that the producers of this stuff want you to use more than you really need. I dialed it back on a field I did 3 weeks ago. I dug deep into a bale and it amazed me how moist it was, but not dusty.


I understand your reasoning here, but no offense it's backwards.

If you don't apply enough then the hay is going to heat and get dusty or moldy. So now not only did you just lose that bale of hay, you've also lost the amount of acid you applied to it. Long and short of it, under apply the product and get dusty hay, then you might as well of dumped the acid on the ground instead of applying it.

I always erred on the high side when applying. If by applying the proper amount makes it unaffordable then why apply at all?


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

One strategy I use on round bales is to put more acid on the inside of the bale when running marginal hay and less on the outer edges using manual control.

I believe, and I might be wrong about this, that the acid will migrate through the bale over time because you can smell the acid.

How much was at the 20% vs how much at high?

Was it all alfalfa? Or a mix? Or something else?

Another factor to consider is which nozzles you have--low or high volume.

I think you'll be OK. But.....check the bale temps over the two weeks.

Ralph


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tom.your bales will shrink as moisture leaves the bale over time.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I leave the unit alone and let it do it's thing, I also stack right away normally so where the bales touch I want a full rate.


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

In the setup directions it said to place the nozzles something like 14" away from the hay coming in, but also show them mounted on the wind guard. When you mount the nozzles on the wind guard, and bale at 45 tons per hour like the system is set for, the pickup is full and the hay is rubbing past the nozzles. Will the juice spread out through the hay and do its job, or do I need to find a way to spray the hay more evenly?


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Tom.your bales will shrink as moisture leaves the bale over time.


So the bales will squat and not look so good in time, but the hay inside should be fine if the hay wasn't too wet when baled and the proper amount of acid was applied. Right?

Ralph, It was first cutting alfalfa with brome and tall fescue. Maybe 80% - 90% alfalfa. Have the high volume nozzles in. I'll check temps and find out what's going on. Thanks!


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

barnrope said:


> So the bales will squat and not look so good in time, but the hay inside should be fine if the hay wasn't too wet when baled and the proper amount of acid was applied. Right?


Right!

Ralph


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> I understand your reasoning here, but no offense it's backwards.
> 
> If you don't apply enough then the hay is going to heat and get dusty or moldy. So now not only did you just lose that bale of hay, you've also lost the amount of acid you applied to it. Long and short of it, under apply the product and get dusty hay, then you might as well of dumped the acid on the ground instead of applying it.
> 
> I always erred on the high side when applying. If by applying the proper amount makes it unaffordable then why apply at all?


I think you're missing my point. 
Lets say at 16%, crop saver recommends 2% for dew moisture and 4% for stem moisture (which is by the way, what they recommend).
In my particular situation, I knew I might have a little stem moisture and possibly some residual dew moisture from the morning, but certainly not ALL stem moisture. 
So if I set it at 3% as a compromise, what is backwards about that?
Also, if I pulled 5 week old bales open and no dust, wouldn't that seem to back me up?


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> I think you're missing my point.
> Lets say at 16%, crop saver recommends 2% for dew moisture and 4% for stem moisture (which is by the way, what they recommend).
> In my particular situation, I knew I might have a little stem moisture and possibly some residual dew moisture from the morning, but certainly not ALL stem moisture.
> So if I set it at 3% as a compromise, what is backwards about that?
> Also, if I pulled 5 week old bales open and no dust, wouldn't that seem to back me up?


This time it might, it won't every time.

I never pissed around with dew moistures settings, set it up at 4,8 and 16 and left it. Now using 2,3 and 5 with Hayguard.


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

First time using crop saver. Plan on applying 4 lbs. per ton, making 50-55 lb. bale. What can I expect the bale to weigh after it dries out? 10, 20 percent less?


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

for us anything above 19% we switch to big baler . Proper treatment of hay will help it to retain weight by avoiding heating. For us small bales at 18% get 6# Prop acid. They are 54to 56 pounds out of the baler they lose 2 to 4 pounds till winter and still stack nice.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> This time it might, it won't every time.
> 
> I never pissed around with dew moistures settings, set it up at 4,8 and 16 and left it. Now using 2,3 and 5 with Hayguard.


How do you like the hay guard? 
Crop saver is $599 for 50 gallons.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I understand everyones ideas about cutting back product to save money, but the other factor is barn fires. Spend a little more and have peace of mind. Spend a little less, have heating, and have to pull bales out to avoid a fire and you will wish you had spent another $1/bale on acid...


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> How do you like the hay guard?
> Crop saver is $599 for 50 gallons.


I like Hayguard enough I won't go back to acid.

I paid $1200 for a drum, I think 50 or 55 gallons, sold by weight actually. But you use half or less than you do of acid.

I used acid for years and sometimes it's still a crapshoot. Apply the full rate and on rare occasions I've still had em heat, could have been environmental factors as well, hot humid wet summers that didn't allow for very much of the moisture to leave the bales after baling. Which is why I don't risk it and use the recommended full rates every time.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Question is there a need to add product at 17% mc for BR bales?


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Nitram said:


> Question is there a need to add product at 17% mc for BR bales?


I used to apply 4/ton of acid to all hay regardless of moisture content to help resist sweating, I don't do it anymore with Hayguard, if I'm baling premium hay I'll set the Harvest tec to start applying at 18% instead of 19%.


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Nitram said:


> Question is there a need to add product at 17% mc for BR bales?


Legumes yes, Alfalfa grass sometimes, grass no.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Okay could see with legumes stem moisture and +-2% variation of testers... I like to start at around 16% as it goes down to 10 lot of shattering


----------

