# gobment census out again



## Hayman1

so it is a slow time of the year and I know this revs you guys up so here goes-

USDA AG Census out again. poking into your personal business and what business is it of theirs?


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## IHCman

Mine came in the mail today. I filled it out hoping this way they'll leave me alone and quit with the phone calls. Some of the questions they ask really makes a person wonder wth they need to know that for.


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## bool

In my off-farm job I use data from the Australian Agricultural Census to help predict the likely impact of government policy. I appreciate good quality data and it really does result in better policy. If you don't want to spend much time on it, an honest estimate based on the previous year's figures is better than a blatant lie.

Roger


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## rjmoses

I got an email from my Congressman asking me to fill it out.

---------------------------------------------

I wanted to take this opportunity to share a link to the 2017 Census of Agriculture conducted by the National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) within the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). From late November through mid-December, NASS will be mailing producers across our country a copy of the 2017 Census of Agriculture, with a deadline to submit completed censuses by February 5, 2018.

During my time in Congress, I have heard from producers across the district about the burdensome nature of completing the census of agriculture. For this reason, I have consistently questioned NASS on its process in choosing questions and the means by which producers can complete the census.

To make submitting the census of agriculture easier, NASS has implemented a new online system. So long as producers have their unique survey code attached to the physical copy of the census NASS mails them, they can complete the survey online at this website (https://www.agcounts.usda.gov).

By completing the census online, producers are afforded a more streamlined experience. Producers can save and store responses so that the census does not have to be completed in one sitting. Additionally, the online census automatically calculates responses and skips questions not applicable to a producer's operation.

The census of agriculture is an important tool lawmakers use when drafting legislation. I appreciate you taking the time to fill out the 2017 Census of Agriculture. Like much in life, the census of agriculture is a work in progress and I appreciate your continued suggestions to improve the census. Please know that I will continue to work with NASS to ensure future censuses of agriculture implement your suggestions.

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Interesting how he talks about the burdensome nature of the survey, but not the purpose for all the detail questions.

Ralph

Truth, trust and transparency: the anathema of governments.


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## somedevildawg

bool said:


> In my off-farm job I use data from the Australian Agricultural Census to help predict the likely impact of government policy. I appreciate good quality data and it really does result in better policy. If you don't want to spend much time on it, an honest estimate based on the previous year's figures is better than a blatant lie.
> 
> Roger


We don't always get the impression that they are on our side, hence the blatant lie....I just don't fill it out at all...got lost in the well subsidized USPS  (now that's one I'd like to fill out a census form for)


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## hillside hay

I wonder exactly what legislation has been drafted in recent years that actually benefits the farmer?


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## Tx Jim

Yepper I just filled to the best of my ability my Ag census report.


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## Vol

IHCman said:


> Mine came in the mail today. I filled it out hoping this way they'll leave me alone and quit with the phone calls. Some of the questions they ask really makes a person wonder wth they need to know that for.


Mine came today.....I have not opened it....been too busy.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow

If I had my unique survey code I would just do mine now to get it over with . Guess I got to wait till it comes in the mail


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## Beav

don't have to it is voluntary they pay people to pester you and that keeps jobs at the USDA they need to end all subsidies and close all the local USDA and soil service offices think of the money saved


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## Vol

I saw no where on the inside of this Census that it is voluntary......unlike some of the other USDA surveys that say that they are voluntary.

On the front of the envelope it says in capital letters that "YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW".

This one is done every 5 years.

Regards, Mike


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## Beav

I have not seen that one as of yet last one I got was voluntary


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## clowers

Mine also says required by law on it.


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## Hayman1

yep, my envelop was printed with ominous lettering about pain of death if not completed!


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## luke strawwalker

Hayman1 said:


> yep, my envelop was printed with ominous lettering about pain of death if not completed!


Meh, come kill me... at least I won't have them pestering me for stuff that's none of their friggin' business...

I tossed mine in the trash, WHERE IT BELONGS.

Never seen a politician do ANYTHING to help the farmer or common man, ONLY DO STUFF TO SCREW THEM.

Later! OL J R


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## Tim/South

luke strawwalker said:


> Never seen a politician do ANYTHING to help the farmer or common man, ONLY DO STUFF TO SCREW THEM.
> 
> Later! OL J R


FSA saved our bacon during the drought of 2016. There were 54 small time cattle farmers in our county got some help through the Livestock Forage Program. After all these years of investing in our government I finally got something back.


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## endrow

Tim/South said:


> FSA saved our bacon during the drought of 2016. There were 54 small time cattle farmers in our county got some help through the Livestock Forage Program. After all these years of investing in our government I finally got something back.


Good to hear it ' I get frustrated with FSA at time but ' I know they do some good


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## luke strawwalker

Tim/South said:


> FSA saved our bacon during the drought of 2016. There were 54 small time cattle farmers in our county got some help through the Livestock Forage Program. After all these years of investing in our government I finally got something back.


Glad it helped somebody. Not worth the paper it's written on around here... Here you could have to buy hay all summer and lose a bunch of cattle, and you *MIGHT* get a couple hundred bucks or so...

Remember reading about some guys up in the Panhandle/ Permian Basin of Texas that got wiped out by wildfires a few years back... HUNDREDS of miles of fence burned, entire herds ran into box canyons and burned to death, no grazing for whatever was left, so they had to buy EVERY MOUTHFUL of hay/feed they ate til the range recovered... They took all their receipts for about $100,000 they were out in expenses to sign up for the much-vaunted USDA 'disaster program' and by the time the paperwork was all done, they got a check for $125 dollars in the mail. Wasn't worth the wasted gas to go fill out the paperwork most likely, considering how far from anything everything is out there...

Meh, screw the gubmint and their "aid"... Seen enough of the gubmint crap over the years to know there's no such thing as a free lunch... or the Easter Bunny...

Later! OL J R


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## Jay in WA

The sooner the government is out of farming and distorting the markets the better off we will all be.


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## endrow

Jay in WA said:


> The sooner the government is out of farming and distorting the markets the better off we will all be.


 That is a fairly accurate statement and I agree with it. Unfortunately it will not work, as said before the farmer Is His Own Worst Enemy , driven by greed that comes naturally with our human nature.. believe me I'm not saying anything negative about farmers


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## Jay in WA

Why wont it work for the government to get out of farming? Large sectors of farming are currently not on the welfare program.


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## Hayjosh

Jay in WA said:


> The sooner the government is out of farming and distorting the markets the better off we will all be.


How will livestock (and agriculture in general) be protected from foreign diseases?


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## Jay in WA

We will always have safety regulations. Its the market manipulation that the government needs to get out of.


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## somedevildawg

endrow said:


> That is a fairly accurate statement and I agree with it. Unfortunately it will not work, as said before the farmer Is His Own Worst Enemy , driven by greed that comes naturally with our human nature.. believe me I'm not saying anything negative about farmers


You done went and said a mouthful right there......


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## Tim/South

luke strawwalker said:


> Glad it helped somebody. Not worth the paper it's written on around here... Here you could have to buy hay all summer and lose a bunch of cattle, and you *MIGHT* get a couple hundred bucks or so...
> 
> Later! OL J R


The FSA rules are pretty much black and white. They only change when the latest Farm Bill is passed.

I believe the general public throws the NRCS, Extension Service, FSA and FEMA Natural Disasters in the same basket.

With the drought monitor, after 8 consecutive weeks of a D3 drought a livestock producer is eligible for assistance. No receipts necessary. That is the same across the entire U.S. according to the current Farm Bill. I have never know of us being dry enough to qualify until last year. The county CED will visit the farm and verify it is pasture and the cows are there.

We had folks calling the NRCS office wanting to make a claim. NRCS told them FSA administered the LFP program under the Farm Bill and gave them the contact number. The caller would cuss and say they were getting "the government run around".

Every county FSA office is overseen by a committee of farmers who are elected by fellow farmers. The committee does not handle day-to-day operations but must approve everything the office does.

Every farmer in the U.S. has a Local Area Advisor representing them on the FSA committee. It is an unpaid position but very important to have a good person filling that spot.


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## luke strawwalker

Hayjosh said:


> How will livestock (and agriculture in general) be protected from foreign diseases?


We're not really protected now-- just a bunch of warm fuzzy crap.

Of course that's why they're always pushing for [email protected] mandatory animal RFID chipping of all livestock.

If you want to be protected from "foreign diseases" or anything else, you better do it yourself if you want it done right...

Relying on the gubmint to do ANYTHING right but pester the h3ll out of you and tax you into nonexistence is a fool's errand...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

Tim/South said:


> They FSA rules are pretty much black and white. They only change when the latest Farm Bill is passed.
> 
> I believe the general public throws the NRCS, Extension Service, FSA and FEMA Natural Disasters in the same basket.
> 
> With the drought monitor, after 8 consecutive weeks of a D3 drought a livestock producer is eligible for assistance. No receipts necessary. That is the same across the entire U.S. according to the current Farm Bill. I have never know of us being dry enough to qualify until last year. The county CED will visit the farm and verify it is pasture and the cows are there.
> 
> We had folks calling the NRCS office wanting to make a claim. NRCS told them FSA administered the LFP program under the Farm Bill and gave them the contact number. The caller would cuss and say they were getting "the government run around".
> 
> Every county FSA office is overseen by a committee of farmers who are elected by fellow farmers. The committee does not handle day-to-day operations but must approve everything the office does.
> 
> Every farmer in the U.S. has a Local Area Advisor representing them on the FSA committee. It is an unpaid position but very important to have a good person filling that spot.


Meh, like I said, glad yall have a good system and it's worked well for you.

Everywhere and everything I've seen, FSA, USDA, and NRCS are worthless as t!ts on a boar hog... Sure are in our area and at Shiner...

Haven't seen a whole lot of difference anywhere else, either.

Later! OL J R


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## Hayjosh

luke strawwalker said:


> We're not really protected now-- just a bunch of warm fuzzy crap.
> 
> Of course that's why they're always pushing for [email protected] mandatory animal RFID chipping of all livestock.
> 
> If you want to be protected from "foreign diseases" or anything else, you better do it yourself if you want it done right...
> 
> Relying on the gubmint to do ANYTHING right but pester the h3ll out of you and tax you into nonexistence is a fool's errand...
> 
> Later! OL J R


I can understand you're jaded due to your distrust of gubmint, but I can most assuredly say as an animal scientist working on the front lines in collaboration with USDA either past or present, they have been very effective at keeping our livestock safe given the sheer size and numbers of our livestock, livestock imports and exports, and vast land area and geographies that can lend themselves to disease outbreaks without the right controls. Working in animal pharm, there are so many behind the scenes hoops and regulations I have to go through, especially when importing something from afar, or even if I'm shipping something domestically from one site to another. There's a number of devastating livestock diseases worldwide that have made themselves endemic in a number of places but have yet to touch us here. They also conduct a lot of good research and work closely with industry on this as well. If we truly were relying on only ourselves and not them to protect our herds from foreign diseases...well, we'd look like all the other countries that had already tried that.

That being said, there's some things they make us do that I think are archaic and rooted in bad science (they would disagree), while there are yet other areas where I'm astounded they're so lax.

Now the functions of USDA that administer this would be APHIS (NVSL, NADC, CVB, NCIE). What you guys are talking about with FSA, NRCS, etc...I'll just have to take your word for it. That stuff sounds way too boring to me


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## Tim/South

luke strawwalker said:


> Meh, like I said, glad yall have a good system and it's worked well for you.
> 
> Everywhere and everything I've seen, FSA, USDA, and NRCS are worthless as t!ts on a boar hog... Sure are in our area and at Shiner...
> 
> Haven't seen a whole lot of difference anywhere else, either.
> 
> Later! OL J R


If it is not working, then work to fix it. FSA and Soil and Water are overseen by a committee of non paid locals.

After I retired, I was nominated to run for our county's spot on the FSA committee. I had no idea what FSA was, had never run for anything in my life. Actually spent more time flying under the radar of anything government.

I was surprised to learn I won. Went to the first couple of meetings with an attitude. Got humbled and discovered the office was working hard to help anyone they could.

The drought of 2016 lasted through the winter. I mentioned at the county cattlemen's meeting that those who planted ryegrass qualified for some winter grazing drought relief. Only 3 farmers applied. Their payments would cover about half the cost of seed. Better than nothing.

When the office ran the paper work, the computer program would not accept it. As the county rep I asked for an explanation. When the elected county rep asks for clarification, it must be addressed. The regional director could not explain, the state office could not explain and Washington was stumped. The issue was that we had never had a drought during the winter months. Planting winter grazing is a common practice.

Washington reprogramed the program data and in doing so opened the door for $50 million across the state to small farmers in drought relief payments. I do not know how many farmers in our state applied or how much was paid. The average small farmer here does not want government anything.

If it is not working it is because local offices are not doing their job of the locals refuse the help offered.


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## endrow

we Farm all highly erodible land"HEL" . There's probably a small stream runs through the farm of every piece of ground we Farm. It all ends up in the Susquehanna River which empties into the Chesapeake Bay. And that is super highly regulated ...mmI get frustrated with the laws and policies we have to put up with. It's all about government intervention with this stuff. could it be done differently could it be done differently and more efficiently yes. But by who? could the farmers do it alone ? I really doubt it


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## Vol

My local NRCS office is great. Most of the time when there is a difficulty, it is in Washington and not here locally. The office bends over backwards to help me.

Regards, Mike


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## panhandle9400

I chunked mine as I do always , if I have my farms signed up at the FSA office , they already have my info , far as info on personal property and income goes they can kiss my hard working a$$


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## endrow

Jay in WA said:


> Why wont it work for the government to get out of farming? Large sectors of farming are currently not on the welfare program.


 just because you're not going down to the FSA office and signing up does not mean that you're getting the benefits of the program. There is so much subsidized in agriculture if you want to call it welfare we were all on it


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## Tim/South

endrow said:


> just because you're not going down to the FSA office and signing up does not mean that you're getting the benefits of the program. There is so much subsidized in agriculture if you want to call it welfare we were all on it


Very true. All Ag is subsidized to some degree.

80% of the Farm Bill goes to free food hand out programs that are not taxed. 20% actually goes to help agriculture. I wish Food Stamps/Meals on Wheels etc had their own branch rather than being under the USDA and people thinking all those billions really went to farmers.

Those who receive the food money are not taxed on that gift.

The farmers who receive any help have to pay taxes on the money.

The U.S. is past the crisis stage for American agriculture. The American farmer is aging and there is no one to fill those shoes. Even the "willing" do not have the knowledge or experience. The USDA is aware of the dilemma and none of their programs for new or beginning farmers has drawn any interest.

I bet 80% of the members here will not be farming to the extent they are now in 10 years. I know I won't.

I filled out my census. It did not take as long as in the past. I always detested having to go back to a previous page and make the numbers match.


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## somedevildawg

Tim/South said:


> 80% of the Farm Bill goes to free food hand out programs that are not taxed. 20% actually goes to help agriculture. I wish Food Stamps/Meals on Wheels etc had their own branch rather than being under the USDA and people thinking all those billions really went to farmers.
> Those who receive the food money are not taxed on that gift.
> The farmers who receive any help have to pay taxes on the money.
> The U.S. is past the crisis stage for American agriculture. The American farmer is aging and there is no one to fill those shoes. Even the "willing" do not have the knowledge or experience. The USDA is aware of the dilemma and none of their programs for new or beginning farmers has drawn any interest.
> I bet 80% of the members here will not be farming to the extent they are now in 10 years. I know I won't.
> 
> I filled out my census. It did not take as long as in the past. I always detested having to go back to a previous page and make the numbers match.


It'll be huge corporate farms.....ie. "Too big to fail" why not, we've already set the precedent.


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## Tim/South

somedevildawg said:


> It'll be huge corporate farms.....ie. "Too big to fail" why not, we've already set the precedent.


Yes.

That is what the USDA is afraid of, that Ag. will follow the path of big oil. Look at what happened when the Mom and Pop independent gas stations were forced out by the EPA. No competition.

Most everything we produce here in North America has to compete with imports from third world countries.


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## chadk66

Vol said:


> I saw no where on the inside of this Census that it is voluntary......unlike some of the other USDA surveys that say that they are voluntary.
> 
> On the front of the envelope it says in capital letters that "YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW".
> 
> This one is done every 5 years.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I have gotten this survey three years in a row. Figured it was an annual thing. I get it because I own one thoroughbred broodmare and sell it's foals.


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## Vol

chadk66 said:


> I have gotten this survey three years in a row. Figured it was an annual thing. I get it because I own one thoroughbred broodmare and sell it's foals.


The current inquiry is a Census. And the last time it was mailed out was in 2012....the USDA sends out several other info seeking forms and that is what you most likely are referencing. If you look inside of these other gov. inquiries it will say that "your response is voluntary. The 5 years Census is the only one that is required by law a response in ag.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses

endrow said:


> just because you're not going down to the FSA office and signing up does not mean that you're getting the benefits of the program. There is so much subsidized in agriculture if you want to call it welfare we were all on it


So, with corn and bean prices in the dumper, how's the government subsidizing working out for us?

Causes me to wonder!

Ralph


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## Teslan

Got mine today. I filled it out. I found interesting that there were quite a few questions about cover crops. I don't remember that last time. I also have formally named my wife as livestock manager in our operation thanks to this survey. She manages 3 goats and 6 chickens. Our son is the unpaid help in feeding them.


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## endrow

rjmoses said:


> So, with corn and bean prices in the dumper, how's the government subsidizing working out for us?
> 
> Causes me to wonder!
> 
> Ralph


 Ralph I don't know how to answer that question. The highly subsidized and regulated BS that comes with dairy farming is a nightmare and it's in serious trouble. I just can't see a good fix being dumped in the whole system and moving into a free market, but who knows maybe that is the answer. Back in the 80s the former FSA was the ASCS. That government agency made an attempt to stabilize the markets. Many farmers protested they would not tell the government what they were doing and they would not be told by the government what to grow or produce or how much.


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## panhandle9400

rjmoses said:


> So, with corn and bean prices in the dumper, how's the government subsidizing working out for us?
> 
> Causes me to wonder!
> 
> Ralph


Did you sign up for ARC or PLC ?


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## RuttedField

I have my complaints about the USDA for sure,but the USDA is the only Federal Agency that I know of that has a local oversight committee. I like that. Where the money is spent is dictated by the local oversight board.The problem is, no one shows up to the meetings.

It is kind of like politics in general; the legislature has a 2% approval rate, yet 85% of incumbents get reelected; so there is a disconnect there.

If people show up to the meetings, they can direct where the money is allocated, and as an example for years I was able to keep federal money from going to forestry. I am a logger as you all know, but here the land base is 10% field and 90% forest, in Maine...the most forested state in the nation...we do not need to spend money on getting trees to grow, stop cutting a field and they pop right up. No, we need to spend it on fields and farms! Anyway I lost out for 2 years and they spent money on forestry...and where did the money go...into building roads to get to peoples forests. So now they no longer fund forestry as it was a waste just as I said it would be.

I am not saying the USDA is not full of bureaucracy, because it obviously is, but its the only Federal Agency that we have a lot of local say in. I know a few of us on here participate in that process, but would have to guess more do not.

It is like anything; when it fails we all hear about it, but when the system works, nothing is said.


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## Tim/South

RuttedField said:


> If people show up to the meetings, they can direct where the money is allocated, and as an example for years I was able to keep federal money from going to forestry. I am a logger as you all know, but here the land base is 10% field and 90% forest, in Maine...the most forested state in the nation...


We had the same thing here (I am also on the Soil and Water committee....long story as to why).

The EQIP ranking was 1) Forestry. 2)Grassland ie pastures and hay, 3) Water.

Grass land is clearly the most important in our county. There was one person who always pushed for Forestry to be #1. He owns 20 acres in a semi rural area. It is his private nature scene.

Since the meeting is public I gathered some cattle and hay friends and we attended the meeting. The new rankings are 1) Grass lands 2) Water 3) Forestry.


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## endrow

Yesterday guy stoped in from usda doing a survey . I asked how long it takes , he said iT depends ..20 minutes maybe . Ist Question ' How many cows ya milk . 2nd Question do you buy hay ..,I said I do not buy hay . He said ' that's it your done there were 6 more pages of Questions , but only if you buy hay . Goes to show us hay producers are important


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## prairie

I have not filled one out for many years, junk mail goes swiftly to its proper place in the trash.

After several harassing phone calls and annoying in person visits, I informed them that any further phone calls would be considered harassment and in person visits considered trespassing. Any calls or visits would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

For several years, all I have received is junk mail, that rapidly goes in its proper place.


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## Randy Litton

clowers said:


> Mine also says required by law on it.


Is this a part of the law enacted by our government, not applicable to our government, only applicable to the peasants?

I try, in my opinion, more than our elected representatives to follow the law just to avoid the IRS. When I was asked to differentiate between hired help involvement in planning and execution, I became disinterested in explaining farming to mass data collection.

Cancelled, resubmit in thirty days for final cancellation.


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