# Pipeline



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We have an old easement with an oil line 4 inches in diameter that hasn't been used for 30 years and YGI decided they want to place an 8 inch high pressure gas line right beside the oil line 12 foot beside. We have a pond that's a third of an acre there going under 14 acres of Woodland there chiseling the whole side off and down through a mile of farmland. They came around in February and said it would be a minimum of disturbance two small lines side-by-side what's the big deal they have to remove 60-foot Wide Pass, remove all the topsoil 1ft subsoil. Compact the subsoil below can create basically a Highway across the whole Farm 60 foot wide then they dig a ditch 18 inches wide 5 foot deep and place the pipeline in. Contractor went through the Woodland show a little mercy on me only took 45 foot because he said the trees were pretty nice. UGI came back in and said cut them down they won't give an inch. The trees are mine and they know it the ground most of them up they brought a huge grinder and because they need the wood chips to control erosion. He said they do not have to pay for the trees I told him that is another crop we Harvest you have to pay for any crop damage you do. We got a new lawyer. The people that bid the job or from Texas and Kentucky. The event the equipment from a local dealer.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Good luck. That is a heck of a grinder.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Here they would have to pay for the trees and reclaim the land back to it's original condition if demanded by the landowner. Trees are classified as a crop here. Take a truck load of pictures and good luck.


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

endrow - you mean UGI, not YGI, right? I'm guessing the easement was already on your property when you purchased it so you weren't able to negotiate any of the terms.

This is a sobering reminder to anyone looking to buy property. If there's an easement, steer clear or offer a lot less money. You never know when the easement holder will come back to take more of your land.

Gary


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Yes my grandparents sold the easement $40,000 in 1938. I did me UGI. The dishonesty is the thing that disappoints me and everybody else in the area since February they Mark the area they would excavate as about 12 to 15 feet. When they get here with the equipment they move it out to 60 feet. UGI uses a third party ride-away negotiator they told me as of last Friday they were appalled that this kind of Destruction would happen to the land. The contractor says they lie they've had these plans in their hands for at least three years.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I hate that for you endrow. It's a sickening feeling to have your private property invaded and feel powerless to do anything about it. Good luck with a new attorney and I hope that they work diligently for you.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Take tons of pics....Are you letting them on land that isnt in the easment? Maybe play hardball and tell them they must not get out of the 60 ft easement.

I wonder if anyone at PSU extension could look at the woodland and put a price on the timber? And good luck with their reclamation work. If its anything like the loggers we had they spin a little grass seed on and high tail it out of there..


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Evidently these right away deals are a little bit tricky. Contacted County Planning NSR CS


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Contact the County Planning ,,NSRCS,, the extension gave me several other divisions for Forestry and natural resources within the government system. Who generally would be out in just a minute's time if someone just let one rip beside a shovel. No one seems to really want to get involved with this deal. They said they'll all be out when it's over and done


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> Evidently these right away deals are a little bit tricky. Contacted County Planning NSR CS


Had this happen to me on a smaller scale just a month or two ago.
I cut a lot of land and it has a pipeline running under it. About every 3 years, they bring in huge brush cutting machines to cut a 50' swath over the pipelines and install new pipeline markers.

Of course nothing of the scale that Endrow is dealing with, but they trampled down a lot of my hay stands with no regard for crop losses with their huge machines.
4 years ago when they did it, it was very wet. They created huge ruts in the fields that to this day make it very difficult on equipment and operators to farm.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Yes and they said shame of it was our family was never usually compensated for this and my mom said you would only understand if you lived in these times. Government came in and took this late in the Great Depression during the beginning of World War II when they were just doing things like that and people just went along with it because it was just such desperate times. She said they took over all the local motels and there were a bunch because of the massive amount of soldiers that were being stationed at Fort Indiantown Gap


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Similar happened to my great aunt & uncle who immigrated here in the 1930's from Northern Europe to get away from Nazi Germany. They were born there, but we always considered them Americans. They bought 600 acres of farmland in Breezewood, PA because they were convinced Germany was going to invade the US and wanted to get as far inland as they could get but still be fairly close to my grandparents in the once great city of Philadelphia. 
In about 1940, PA turnpike commission used eminent domain seizure to cut a huge swath through their property to build part of a cloverleaf exit. They had a huge farm, timber stands and oil/gas production on their property.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I am kinda surprised no one wants to get involved...maybe because they just view it as a civil matter regarding value of the trees...wait till we have a good hard rain, then call and tell them there is erosion problems...I bet that will bring someone out...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

endrow said:


> Contact the County Planning ,,NSRCS,, the extension gave me several other divisions for Forestry and natural resources within the government system. Who generally would be out in just a minute's time if someone just let one rip beside a shovel. No one seems to really want to get involved with this deal. They said they'll all be out when it's over and done


Typical gubmint... worthless as tits on a boar hog...

Good luck! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

PaMike said:


> I am kinda surprised no one wants to get involved...maybe because they just view it as a civil matter regarding value of the trees...wait till we have a good hard rain, then call and tell them there is erosion problems...I bet that will bring someone out...


If *YOU* (as a private individual) do something like this, they'd land on you with both feet... But let a COMPANY (big corporation) do it, it's "we'll deal with it when it's over" (and not do a damn thing, least of all for you as the landowner-- may generate some fines for the GUBMINT but the landowner can go hang.

Gubmint literally makes me sick.

Later! OL J R


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Sugar their equipment.
Make them pay the hard way.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Swv.farmer said:


> Sugar their equipment.
> Make them pay the hard way.


Not the contractors fault, why would you suggest screwing up their equipment?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Swv.farmer said:


> Sugar their equipment.
> Make them pay the hard way.


Yep, get caught, go to jail, get sued, end up owing them money... REAL smart...

I know when they did the pipeline across our farm a couple years back, they had a guy on the payroll driving around all night watching their equipment... went from one area to another, wherever they had equipment parked, on a random schedule... he even had night-vision binoculars, cameras, and other assorted gear to document anybody screwing with their stuff or stealing, and had the cops and a security company on speed dial...

I talked to the guy when he drove out into the pasture to check on their stuff... we had walked down there to see their progress, so he wanted to check us out as well. Interesting conversation.

Think before you do anything stupid...

Later! OL J R


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

They are putting in a big development down at the intersection of two big highways. Easy access for theives...

Every night all the equipment is lined up in one neat row right near the road. I never saw an excavator that picky. Its pretty clear they wanted to keep all their ducks in a row...


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

All this for an 8-inch high pressure line


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Is it going under the pond?? Sure looks like it...

How deep down is it going?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It's going un der the pond supposed to be 5 foot below the bottom of the pond. The pond is a little low on water now due to the drought.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Have you asked how much those welders are making? I bet it's around $200/hr.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Me and auto type are dangerous when discussing this pipeline a while back I said the original easement was purchased for 40K that is incorrect the original easement for the pipeline was purchased for 1K in 1938. LOL that was probably more like the price of the whole Farm


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

We have a natural gas pipeline on our place with a 50 ft easement that was relatively unattended. A couple of years ago the gas company came through re-clearing the full width of the pipeline, installing access gates in all fences, and painting T-posts blue with white at the top for five posts on either side of the gates, and placing a yellow T-post over the pipeline and a warning sign at each fence. They were working on the far side of my new alfalfa fence when I caught up to the crew. I demanded that they leave my alfalfa fence alone and simply go around to the other side of the 8-acre alfalfa patch, which they did after allowing me to talk to their supervisor. They stayed off the alfalfa; no gates in that fence; and no blue and white T-posts on the near side fence.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Talk to Ugi they are saying what shut the pipeline job down was, inspector came in did a random check for pipe quality and found some gases and grooves under the code rapper on the steel pipe. He wanted what they laid so far dug up and checked and all new pipe used as usual UGA wins which is good I didn't want to have to see him to get it up again.. as far as the water in a ditch they threw the pipe in the water and buried it with my topsoil they made concrete brakes every 60 feet in the rest of my farm so the water does not follow the pipe does not follow the pipe. For all you pipeline experts this is to be a high pressure line can you tell me what the pressure is approximately in a high pressure transmission line. I could ask UGI but they have lied about everything else.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

From what I know medium pressure is 50psi and under low pressure is measured in inch pounds so high pressure can be anywhere from 51psi up to 1600psi for that size pipe my best guess would be 6-800psi . Believe me you do not want to make any mistakes around that pipe. You should try hitting up the guys for a couple of loads of stone for your driveway UGI usually is willing to do that to keep land owner happy.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Nice concrete break...wonder if that's the approved method...looks pretty half ass..we have a sewerline running up our shale valley. The water follows the sewerline bigtime. I was putting in a tile line and as soon as I crossed over the sewerline my trench instantly filled with water. Water runs through the disturbed shale layers from the sewer excavation, hits my tile line at 90 degress, then flows out to the creek...


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Something about placing a concreate pillar setting on top of high pressure line . thing comes up to just about ground level.It is in an area we make hay that can be a bit spongy . They are placing one every 75 feet on the lower ground


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

farmerbrown said:


> From what I know medium pressure is 50psi and under low pressure is measured in inch pounds so high pressure can be anywhere from 51psi up to 1600psi for that size pipe my best guess would be 6-800psi . Believe me you do not want to make any mistakes around that pipe. You should try hitting up the guys for a couple of loads of stone for your driveway UGI usually is willing to do that to keep land owner happy.


This is going to be quite an extravagant rightaway now we find out . It is because it is under a massive overhead eclectic transmission line. It will take numerous monitoring systems and check points all threwout the farm . I am now told the easement owner, being me ,must provide what ever excess they need to maintain and inspect. I am told they may need a bit of a threw way here and there . In Febuary they said it would be 5 foot from the old line farm over it forget about it . Now it is a different story . My attorney says the old bought easement from grandpa in1938 rightaway was just tiny, but allowed for another line did not get specific people respected farmland back then . These guys want 30 foot on each side of the line across the longest portion of our 400 acre farm. UGI uses a 3rd party rightaway company that takes care of everything between them and me they will not even talk to me . This out fit plays dirty and dose not care. A couple of loads of stone will not make me happy.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

vhaby said:


> We have a natural gas pipeline on our place with a 50 ft easement that was relatively unattended. A couple of years ago the gas company came through re-clearing the full width of the pipeline, installing access gates in all fences, and painting T-posts blue with white at the top for five posts on either side of the gates, and placing a yellow T-post over the pipeline and a warning sign at each fence. They were working on the far side of my new alfalfa fence when I caught up to the crew. I demanded that they leave my alfalfa fence alone and simply go around to the other side of the 8-acre alfalfa patch, which they did after allowing me to talk to their supervisor. They stayed off the alfalfa; no gates in that fence; and no blue and white T-posts on the near side fence.


 I wonder why they did not do that originally and when was the the line originally installed the you know?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

So endrow you are saying that your original right of way is very narrow, but somehow now they are now allowed to take a huge wide path?

I have a gas right of way from 1900 (or right around there) the ROW is 3 ft wide allowing for a 2" pipe...You think UGI could do the same thing to me that they are doing to you????


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

PaMike said:


> So endrow you are saying that your original right of way is very narrow, but somehow now they are now allowed to take a huge wide path?
> 
> I have a gas right of way from 1900 (or right around there) the ROW is 3 ft wide allowing for a 2" pipe...You think UGI could do the same thing to me that they are doing to you????


I am sure they would Mike....their defense would be that with todays machinery practices that a 3 foot row would be impossible to service. In 1900 it was probably completely hand dug and all that was needed was a walking access. They would use imminent domain....but a smart landowner would immediately sue and get a stop work injunction and file suit to be compensated for additional widening of the recorded row regardless. If you do nothing, expect nothing.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I found it interesting that when they built the housing development next to us the gas R.O.W was left at something like 50 ft, the standard at the time, even though the R.O.W is only 3 ft. So either the developer couldn't find the easement in the courthouse, they didn't want to risk a fight regarding size, or the standard of 50 ft overrides the written easement...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

50 feet is the standard here and has been since at least the seventies....probably before.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Both PA Mike and Vol are probably right and that is where this is headed. But they originally told they can add a line got to be similar. So they proposed I took 5 off the deed in 1938 they promised they could put the other one five foot beside=10'ROW, some Farmers signed and agreed to it. So it's we get 50 beside 10 . That's how they're coming up with the 60-footROW. Plus now you can't Farm over it. They need access to certain points along the way, I know I'm not going to change any of it either but I think I should be compensated I think they should not get it all for free. The lawyer said is very difficult and will take a lot of money to fight it


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Vol said:


> I am sure they would Mike....their defense would be that with todays machinery practices that a 3 foot row would be impossible to service. In 1900 it was probably completely hand dug and all that was needed was a walking access. They would use imminent domain....but a smart landowner would immediately sue and get a stop work injunction and file suit to be compensated for additional widening of the recorded row regardless. If you do nothing, expect nothing.
> 
> Regards, Mike


That is a fact


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Its a real shame that UGI knows it will take a lot of money to fight so UGI does what they want and assumes most people wont fight it...I wonder what would have happened if you would have demanded them to leave since they weren't in the legal R.O.W.

Make sure you take pictures of all the disturbance with dates, pictures of the topsoil in the ditch...I wonder if a PSU extension agent would come out and look around for verification... A letter into Lancaster Farming might not hurt either...maybe get a reporter out there...


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

The company that I use to work for, my boss reported directly to the Chairman of the Board (it was a large corporation). It was here that I learned something that I never forgot, have personally used and I will suggest you consider it.

First part of my story, I have a ROW for a electric utility, they also use 'the third party' system, I had damages, was getting know where with their "agent's" (a word in the dictionary slightly ahead of a**hole).

Then I remember, when the Chairman of the Board gets a complaint (nicely written with no foul language towards him anyhow), explaining how 'his' company is unjustly hurting / damaging YOUR situation. He gets it fixed, pronto, period, cost is not a factor, he just wants it taking care of.

I had managers, supervisors, foremen and hourly employees, jump through hoops to 'make the problem - squeaky wheel' go away. I myself, once took a small detour, while flying back from Florida to Michigan, detoured to Texas to make a 'squeaky wheel' go away.

With my own situation, I too wrote a letter to the C of B, I had people stumbling over themselves trying to fix my problem to MY satisfaction within a week of mailing letter. And offering more compensation than originally being push down my throat.

For what it is worth, I would suggest a letter to the C of B, first and foremost.

My two pennies today. You just need the rest of the cost of the stamp.

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

endrow said:


> I know I'm not going to change any of it either but I think I should be compensated I think they should not get it all for free. The lawyer said is very difficult and will take a lot of money to fight it


I hate this to know end for you endrow. This type of behavior is what leads to very bad outcomes sometimes. It just makes me sick to think about myself in your shoes. The proverbial rock and a hard place. I am very sorry for you.

Regards, Mike


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

If it has been farmed over in the past, i'm not sure that they can stop you now, unless they want to renegotiate the lease again. They can say whatever they want, but in the end most of their BS is bluff not fact of law. Hope it works out OK for you. Up here we are allowed to farm or graze all pipeline ROW's, less vegetation control for them to do.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I have to deal with a county owned air port they hire contractors that think they can come on my property when ever they think . Then I have to get my lawyer to straiten things out biggest thing I have learned is get everything in writing. Sucks to pay taxes on property you can't use or control as you wish.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

r82230 said:


> The company that I use to work for, my boss reported directly to the Chairman of the Board (it was a large corporation). It was hear I learned something that I never forgot, have personally used and I will suggest you consider it.
> 
> First part of my story, I have a ROW for a eclectic utility, they also use 'the third party' system, I had damages, was getting know where with their "agent's" (a word in the dictionary slightly ahead of a**hole).
> 
> ...


I think Larry is on to something...most board members are "outside professionals" and not "in the business". If they get a letter they are going to ask the president or someone else high up what is going on. You now have the board and management aware there is an issue, and its much harder to make issue disappear/swept under the rug. Just send a letter to the president and more than likely it goes right in the trash. Maybe do a little research and see if UGI has a board, and see if you can find any bios of the board members. Send a letter about what is going on to a board member that is a lawyer and he might realize real quick that UGI could have a BIG problem...

Well that info was easy to find...

http://www.ugicorp.com/investor-relations/corporate-governance/Contact-the-Board-of-Directors/default.aspx


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Heard from the attorney this week and he said when they are finished installing the pipeline at that point he will be ready to start.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

endrow said:


> Heard from the attorney this week and he said when they are finished installing the pipeline at that point he will be ready to start.


That's interesting. So he doesn't want to go after them mid project? Feels its better to wait till the end? I guess at this point no reason to stop the project dead and have your place all torn up...I guess on the bright side maybe you will get a new tractor out of the deal...


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

What is the big black machine on tracks?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

The big black machine grinds up tree branches


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## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

Endrow so just saw this topic. We are in middle of marcellus shale country here. Its definitely a love/hate relationship with it. Love that we have some wells pumping. Hate that they drive all over. We have 12 inch gathering lines going thru our land to compression station on neighbors property. They are running at 2500 psi. We are able to pasture and have fields over them. Although they will never be the same after they come thru. They attempted to smooth, you have to slow way down on equipment or it will shake you off of tractor. Ours looked just like the pictures you posted. They were supposed to build a driveway to the pig launcher(the above ground valve system used to clean the pipelines). That was 3 years ago. We are constantly finding new tire tracks going thru the fields to it. The only thing that stopped them from driving wherever they wanted was we fenced in field for grazing with electrified wire hooked to our 30 joule fencer. Even the texas guys won't try to get to it without stopping at the house to get us to shut it off for them. You wont get paid for the trees or get them to replant. Where they went through forest all 60 feet are seeded with grass and they have trimmed it.


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