# Planting spring oats with brome/orchard



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Trying to figure out what to plant in the fields that were a failed attempt at planting into grass last fall. I would really like to still plant them into orchard grass or brome but I'm a little hesitant to plant grass in the spring here......especially orchard. I spring planted brome last year and it established well but was much lower yielding than a fall planting. Hard to pencil out a 40-50 bale yield for the season which is about all I can expect out of spring planted grasses here.

I am thinking about planting spring oats and planting orchard or brome with the oats. I know the oats would give me a good cutting of hay and was thinking the grass could grow the rest of the year to be well established for next year. Maybe even possibly get a fall cutting off the grass if we have enough moisture in late summer?

Has anyone had any experience planting orchard or brome with oats? Will what I'm thinking of doing work well or would I be better off just planting oats by themselves this spring and trying to plant the grass again in the fall? I'm thinking maybe the oats should be planted thinner to ensure they don't smother out the grass seedlings? Maybe reduce the amount of N as well to ensure the oats don't lodge and smother the grass?

Hayden


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I have to plant oats or barley if I plant spring grass. I trend towards barley as it is a little shorter and the grain a little more in demand if I miss the hay window.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Maybe this isn't exactly the topic, but hay seedings aren't penciled out in one year, it's a multi-year deal. That said, I think orchard should be more aggressive in the first year than brome.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

hillside hay said:


> I have to plant oats or barley if I plant spring grass. I trend towards barley as it is a little shorter and the grain a little more in demand if I miss the hay window.


 Too far south for spring planted barley here. I can see where the shorter height of the barley would be beneficial though. Do you reduce the seeding rate of the small grain when planting with grass?

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Maybe this isn't exactly the topic, but hay seedings aren't penciled out in one year, it's a multi-year deal. That said, I think orchard should be more aggressive in the first year than brome.


 For me a fall planted stand can make a good profit in the first year. A spring planted stand will pretty much just cover my costs. I have to be able to turn a profit on this ground this year. A crop of oat hay or grain/straw will give me the profit I need on the ground. Want to get this ground in grass hay though so I'm trying to figure out if it will work to establish the grass with the oats.

Hayden


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

In central Pa. many farmers still spring seed 1.5 bu oats for the nurse crop and about 12 to 15 # alfalfa and somewhere between 2 to 6# of orchard grass . My grandpa often said in Pa Deitsch : And the oats makes its way out first and the Grass And Alfalfa can follow after .


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

endrow said:


> In central Pa. many farmers still spring seed 1.5 bu oats for the nurse crop and about 12 to 15 # alfalfa and somewhere between 2 to 6# of orchard grass . My grandpa often said in Pa Deitsch : And the oats makes its way out first and the Grass And Alfalfa can follow after .


 That's what I was thinking about doing but just straight grass and no alfalfa.....was thinking 1.5-2 bushels of oats and either 20 pounds of orchard or brome. I usually plant at least 3 bushels of oats by themselves but figured I better cut it down some or they might smother the grass.

Hayden


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I usually plant my OG in the spring. Usually do 20-25 lbs of OG plus 1.5 bu of oats. Has worked well for me.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Forgot to add that in average or better moisture years you should get a nice cutting of blade hay off the new OG stand late summer or early fall. I’ll only cut it that first year though if the growth is really thick and I can get it cut in plenty of time for significant regrowth to occur before it frosts.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Trotwood2955 said:


> I usually plant my OG in the spring. Usually do 20-25 lbs of OG plus 1.5 bu of oats. Has worked well for me.





Trotwood2955 said:


> Forgot to add that in average or better moisture years you should get a nice cutting of blade hay off the new OG stand late summer or early fall. I'll only cut it that first year though if the growth is really thick and I can get it cut in plenty of time for significant regrowth to occur before it frosts.


 That sounds great and is just what I would like to accomplish......get a good crop of oats and have the grass well established for next year and maybe if conditions are just right get a bonus cutting of grass in the fall.

How much nitrogen do you put on the oats? I usually put 50-60 units but thought maybe I would need to cut tha back to ensure they don't lodge and smother the grass. Do you plant the oats and orchard mixed together in the drill or make two separate passes to plant?

Hayden


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Given you're south of me and somewhat hotter in the summer, Teff for a one summer and done to get revenue off the field?

I know Teff is kind of a crap shoot, but if you mash it a bit and it clicks all summer...

Then fall plant a perennial.

This is what I'm doing with a field I'm clearing this year.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I usually put 40-50 units of N down and have had no issues with lodging. This past spring I had some extra turkey litter so put down 2T/acre of that instead and it worked fine too.

With my drill I have to make two passes as I only have one large seed box. I know others on here have mixed it and get along fine. I've always worried about getting a thick enough and consistent stand doing it that way, plus the extra headache of getting my drill set for the perfect rate for that. So I just keep making the two passes. Works for me no more often than I plant new grass stands.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> Given you're south of me and somewhat hotter in the summer, Teff for a one summer and done to get revenue off the field?
> I know Teff is kind of a crap shoot, but if you mash it a bit and it clicks all summer...
> Then fall plant a perennial.
> This is what I'm doing with a field I'm clearing this year.


 I had thought about teff because I could still plant spring oats in late February and then plant teff in June after the oats and then plant a perennial grass this fall. I reminded myself though after my three previous attempts with teff that I swore I wouldn't fool with it again so I have decided against that route.

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Trotwood2955 said:


> I usually put 40-50 units of N down and have had no issues with lodging. This past spring I had some extra turkey litter so put down 2T/acre of that instead and it worked fine too.
> With my drill I have to make two passes as I only have one large seed box. I know others on here have mixed it and get along fine. I've always worried about getting a thick enough and consistent stand doing it that way, plus the extra headache of getting my drill set for the perfect rate for that. So I just keep making the two passes. Works for me no more often than I plant new grass stands.


 I was thinking about making two passes as well instead of mixing the oats and orchard together in the big box. Was thinking that there would be less competition between the oats and grass if it wasn't in the same drill row.

Assuming your making hay out of the oats rather than grain/straw what kind of yield do you get from the oats when planted at the 1.5 bushel rate?

Hayden


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> Too far south for spring planted barley here. I can see where the shorter height of the barley would be beneficial though. Do you reduce the seeding rate of the small grain when planting with grass?
> 
> Hayden


Nope , I put the grain in at around 2 bu to the acre.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Back in the day of set aside acres it was SOP to put on 1bu of oats along with alf/ grass.1 bu of oats will stool out but be less competitive with the companion crop.It still yielded pretty well also if we were allowed to harvest it.

Another reason to do it this way is erosion control.

Oats for hay is a bitch to get dry!

Now I use annual ryegrass for cover crop.Cut 2-3 times seeding yr and yr 2 have a established hay crop with full yield potential yr 2


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I always bale the oats as dry hay or wet baleage. Usually figure on 4-6 bales/acre (4x5) depending on moisture and weather conditions, what stage I can get it cut, and how I'm baling it. What I had last year averaged 5.5 dry bales/acre. No idea what they weighed but the baler pressure was cranked to the max and they were very tight bales.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Back in the day of set aside acres it was SOP to put on 1bu of oats along with alf/ grass.1 bu of oats will stool out but be less competitive with the companion crop.It still yielded pretty well also if we were allowed to harvest it.
> Another reason to do it this way is erosion control.
> Oats for hay is a bitch to get dry!
> Now I use annual ryegrass for cover crop.Cut 2-3 times seeding yr and yr 2 have a established hay crop with full yield potential yr 2


 Had to look up what SOP meant! Here I have never had any trouble getting oat hay dry.....unlike alfalfa. Interesting that you can get multiple cuts from annual ryegrass.....here it is a winter annual that will head out in April-May and is pretty much dead after it is cut with not enough regrowth to amount to anything. Many times though it will try to send back out a few short seed heads before dying.....it's prolific reseeding nature contributes to why many down here consider it a weed. Guess that just goes to show how different our areas/climates can be.

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Trotwood2955 said:


> I always bale the oats as dry hay or wet baleage. Usually figure on 4-6 bales/acre (4x5) depending on moisture and weather conditions, what stage I can get it cut, and how I'm baling it. What I had last year averaged 5.5 dry bales/acre. No idea what they weighed but the baler pressure was cranked to the max and they were very tight bales.


 That is a great looking crop of oats in your picture. For only planting 1.5 bushels an acre they look nice and thick. That yield I would be very happy with and pencil out much better than a spring planted grass by itself.

Think that is what I have decided to give a try and is the best option for my situation. I know you are a going to be a little cooler than me in Virginia but I would think we are still similar enough that it would probably work here as well. I have a few different fields to plant so I think I will plant some with orchard grass and some in brome.

Hayden


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

FarmerCline said:


> Had to look up what SOP meant! Here I have never had any trouble getting oat hay dry.....unlike alfalfa. Interesting that you can get multiple cuts from annual ryegrass.....here it is a winter annual that will head out in April-May and is pretty much dead after it is cut with not enough regrowth to amount to anything. Many times though it will try to send back out a few short seed heads before dying.....it's prolific reseeding nature contributes to why many down here consider it a weed. Guess that just goes to show how different our areas/climates can be.
> 
> Hayden


Thats wierd,here its harder to get oat hay dry then alfalfa.Unless you let it get fairly ripe.

Itallian Ryegrass would prly be a better choice for you there.It doesn't head out seeding yr.

Here both annual and Italian ryegrass normally freezes out.So its not a fall seeded crop here.Even if some survises the winter here the alf/grass is way more competitive so it doesnt amout to much.For me it is not a problem mixes in with the other hay anyway.Now with straight grass it might be a issue if they want pure orchardgrass.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Thats wierd,here its harder to get oat hay dry then alfalfa.Unless you let it get fairly ripe.
> 
> Itallian Ryegrass would prly be a better choice for you there.It doesn't head out seeding yr.
> 
> Here both annual and Italian ryegrass normally freezes out.So its not a fall seeded crop here.Even if some survises the winter here the alf/grass is way more competitive so it doesnt amout to much.For me it is not a problem mixes in with the other hay anyway.Now with straight grass it might be a issue if they want pure orchardgrass.


 I try to cut the oats right after they head out and no later than milk stage. Cut in the boot now they would be harder to dry.

Annual ryegrass would typically be planted in the fall here. When it volunteers it germinates in the fall and grows all winter long and gets pretty lush and competitive in the spring. Customers probably wouldn't mind if there was a little ryegrass mixed in with the orchard or brome.....they are pretty open to either grass....just no fescue. I would just prefer not to have ryegrass volunteering in the fields every year.

Down here annual and Italian ryegrass are used as interchangeable terms describing true annual ryegrass. A couple years ago I planted an acre test plot of green spirit true Italian ryegrass to see what it would do. Planted in the spring so it wouldn't head out the first year. It did not recover from the light first cutting I made.....just burnt up in the heat. It was a very hot June that year but I don't think the ryegrasses can stand the heat we get in the summer down here and are strictly a cool season annual.

Hayden


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Yesterday it finally dried up just enough to get in the field to start planting. Planted a field of spring oats and smooth brome and another of spring oats/meadow brome. Since brome seed won't feed well through the drill meters without a filler like rice hulls I decided to just blend the oats and brome together and plant in a single pass. No problem getting the brome to feed out of the drill mixed with the oats. I was concerned about the blend separating and the brome seed settling to the top but that wasn't an issue and it worked really well. Mixed the seed at a rate of 2 bushels of oats and 20 pounds of brome......calibrated the drill and got pretty darn near my targeted seeding rate. Fingers crossed it comes up and does well.

Still have another field that I'm going to try orchard grass planted with the spring oats if I can get it planted before it gets too late.....more rain today.

Hayden


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

FarmerCline said:


> Yesterday it finally dried up just enough to get in the field to start planting. Planted a field of spring oats and smooth brome and another of spring oats/meadow brome. Since brome seed won't feed well through the drill meters without a filler like rice hulls I decided to just blend the oats and brome together and plant in a single pass. No problem getting the brome to feed out of the drill mixed with the oats. I was concerned about the blend separating and the brome seed settling to the top but that wasn't an issue and it worked really well. Mixed the seed at a rate of 2 bushels of oats and 20 pounds of brome......calibrated the drill and got pretty darn near my targeted seeding rate. Fingers crossed it comes up and does well.
> 
> Still have another field that I'm going to try orchard grass planted with the spring oats if I can get it planted before it gets too late.....more rain today.
> 
> Hayden


Grandpa always did his brome that way with good success. Hope it works out for you.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Yesterday it finally dried up just enough to get in the field to start planting. Planted a field of spring oats and smooth brome and another of spring oats/meadow brome. Since brome seed won't feed well through the drill meters without a filler like rice hulls I decided to just blend the oats and brome together and plant in a single pass. No problem getting the brome to feed out of the drill mixed with the oats. I was concerned about the blend separating and the brome seed settling to the top but that wasn't an issue and it worked really well. Mixed the seed at a rate of 2 bushels of oats and 20 pounds of brome......calibrated the drill and got pretty darn near my targeted seeding rate. Fingers crossed it comes up and does well.
> 
> Still have another field that I'm going to try orchard grass planted with the spring oats if I can get it planted before it gets too late.....more rain today.
> 
> Hayden


That is good info Hayden. I am especially interested to see how your Meadow Brome does, but you really won't know until next spring since it is slow to establish. I think if you can get it established that it will be with you for many years. I am glad you had a successful day planting. I am anxious to see if the Meadow Brome that I added to an Orchard grass/Timothy planting last spring will show up.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> Down here annual and Italian ryegrass are used as interchangeable terms describing true annual ryegrass. A couple years ago I planted an acre test plot of green spirit true Italian ryegrass to see what it would do. Planted in the spring so it wouldn't head out the first year. It did not recover from the light first cutting I made.....just burnt up in the heat. It was a very hot June that year but I don't think the ryegrasses can stand the heat we get in the summer down here and are strictly a cool season annual.
> 
> Hayden


Pretty amazing how much difference in temperature there can be in this country. Swmnhay has to deal with freeze outs and here in the Southeast we worry with plantings burning up. From here to where Cy lives is about a thousand miles traveling NorthWest....probably about 600 miles latitude.

This is one of the really cool and amazing things about Haytalk is learning about obstacles and nuances that each other has to overcome and the affects of climate upon our farming methods.

Here, along about the dog days of summer I wonder what it would be like to farm in an area where the humidity was fairly low compared to here and the temperatures are in the low eighties......but then January rolls around and the lows generally get about freezing here and the highs approach fifty and those other farming areas are dealing with below zero.....I just shake my head. It is all about what we get used to being around.

I would like to grow just one crop in some of that crow black Chernozem.

Regards, Mike


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