# No-Tilling OG into Alfalfa



## tbill0511 (Mar 26, 2013)

Hey everyone,

We have a one year old straight alfalfa field that we would like to drill some og into because of market reasons. It is a very good stand but we just can't move the straight alfalfa like we can move the alfalfa-og mix hay. What do you think would be a good rate to try and no-till into the alfalfa? I was thinking 5-6lbs to get us a good mix but I'm really not sure what will come up. Thanks


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## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

5 lbs is a lot. I have seen a nice blend when seeding 1.5. I would shoot for 2 lbs but don't get it too deep. I have had good results just using the brillion when inter seeding into alfalfa.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Don't know where you are from but 5-6 lbs is recommended on the east coast and that's what I was planting a few years back. Made nice hay


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## tbill0511 (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm in NJ. On our conventionally seeded mixed fields I seeded 4-5 and am very happy with that. I just wasn't sure if I should put a little more in with it being no-tilled.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

5 pounds is perfect for intersecting . The only time I would recommend increasing that rate is when you're planting method could not get the seed placement correct.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I was thinking the 5 was too much - that would be all a guy would need for a plain stand? I'd think closer to 2-3? I guess it depends how much grass you want in it.

Rodney


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If you're talking OG, you'll need to specify whether it has hulls to make sure everyone is on the same page here.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Only 5 lbs when interseeding OG? And only 2-3 lbs when just seeding it plain? Are you guys serious? That little? I always drill at least 15 lbs an acre. I plan to interseed some Orchard and brome in alfalfa next spring and am planning for 15-20 lbs an acre. Maybe it's the location. Also I never plant just OG. Always a mix of orchard and brome.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

It must be a location thing because like Iowahaymaker, I use 2 pounds and it is a nice mix.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

I no tilled 5 lbs. last year into 3 year old fields, it came up nicely this year. I did it in early spring as early as I could get in there.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

barnrope said:


> It must be a location thing because like Iowahaymaker, I use 2 pounds and it is a nice mix.


Is it a location thing or the definition of nice mix? Here, the goal would be 50/50. Maybe elsewhere the desired mix would still be primarily alfalfa, 70/30 or 80/20?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

barnrope said:


> It must be a location thing because like Iowahaymaker, I use 2 pounds and it is a nice mix.


Yes. I only expect half of what I plant to come up and actually live. A little better chance under pivot irrigation, but much worse on the fields I have to flood irrigate. Which means I have to pray for rain and enough rain for it to sprout. Then more moisture to help it establish before I can safely flood irrigate it without fear of washing it out. When interceding into alfalfa you also have to plant more because quite often you will need to cut the established alfalfa prior to the grass getting very big. So if it's hot and dry like it normally is here in Colorado when you cut the alfalfa it shocks the new grass and some can die.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Is it a location thing or the definition of nice mix? Here, the goal would be 50/50. Maybe elsewhere the desired mix would still be primarily alfalfa, 70/30 or 80/20?


For me I don't really care what the mix will be next year when I interseed some grass in my old stand of alfalfa. The end result will be a whole field of grass hay anyways in probably 3 years. I more care about the grass hay coming up evenly over the entire field.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

It is a location thing. I put o-grass into and older alfalfa field at about 2-3lbs and could see nice even rows in a month. Last fall I did a plain stand of o-grass and I know the seeding was under 7lbs.

Rodney


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

This week we no tilled orchard grass into an aging alfalfa/mixed grass field at a rate of 15 lbs/acre. We finished baling the 3rd cut, spread a heavy application of compost and used a spiked roller conservation seeder to seed the orchard grass. The seeder does not provide for a consistent depth for seed placement and there is enough existing grass to make it difficult for the new seed to emerge and compete. If we had just alfalfa in the field and a true seed drill we could probably reduce the seed rate to 5-6 lbs/acre. Your conditions sound like 5-6 lbs will be successful.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I think after you decide on the seed mixture once the stand is established, how you fertilize and your cutting schedule will have much more to do with what is in each bale than whether you planted 2 pounds or 3


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## prairie (Jun 20, 2008)

I work with seed customers over a pretty wide geographic are. A few years ago my wife told me we shipped seed to 38 states that year. One thing I can tell you is that seeding rates are not a "one size fits all" deal.

My general recommendation for orchardgrass with alfalfa for hay is 1-3 lbs/acre when seeded with the alfalfa, 3-6 lbs/acre when interseeding, or 15 lbs/acre as a pure stand.

But I can't win, as several times a year I am accused of trying to sell someone way more seed than they need because they always plant 1/2 or less of what I recommend, then the next guy acts like I am an idiot because everybody knows you should seed 2-3 times what I recommend.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

I seeded 12 lbs in an older thin alfalfa stand on 8/10 and it established quite well but got shaded out where alfalfa was thick. Will seed 6 lbs everywhere in the spring. I've never seen Orchard out compete the alfalfa in the establishment year

Best chance is to seed after taking and early last cutting of the year.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

haystax said:


> I seeded 12 lbs in an older thin alfalfa stand on 8/10 and it established quite well but got shaded out where alfalfa was thick. Will seed 6 lbs everywhere in the spring. I've never seen Orchard out compete the alfalfa in the establishment year
> 
> Best chance is to seed after taking and early last cutting of the year.


Unless you've used some kind of weed herbicide in the spring that has a carryover into the fall. Which is why I'm not drilling grass seed into my old stand of alfalfa right now.


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