# Tractor shopping



## chazhk

To start with, I'm new to the forum and secondly I'm not a farmer. That alone may exempt me from the forum! :mellow: I do own a ranch in south Texas which requires the use of a tractor for a lot of shredding, minor dirt work, and moving large feeders and other heavy objects from time to time. I'm an absentee owner so my tractor work is restricted to several weekends a year. I currently own an open station MF471 and due to age related issues with heat and an influx of Africanized bee populations I'm looking to trade it in for a cab tractor. My wife has a John Deere 5525 with a cab (said if she was going to continue to help out she wanted to be cool and comfortable) and its been a great tractor for us. However; I've recently looked at the JD line and no offense to anyone but it appears the quality has dropped in the last 8 years. That may be the case with most lines, not sure. I love the MF I have and have had no problems whatsoever with it so I am now looking at the 4610M. I know absolutely nothing about any other brands so if anyone has suggestions about ones I should research please feel free to forward your opinions. Thanks!


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## Vol

You must be looking at the John Deere E series . If you want a nice tractor without a overload of bells and whistles, look at the 5M series....actually a little nicer series than your 5525. I think there are four models M5075, M5085, M5100 and M5115. The last three numbers being engine horse power.

The E series came out about the time frame you speak of and the E stands for economy.

Regards, Mike


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## lidaacres

Any reason to not look for another 5525? Something you like and are familiar with, and would be likely more budget friendly than something new.


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## somedevildawg

I agree, I'd look at the "m" designation or the "D" series, I know of a few folks that have em and no issues.....or a 5525, perhaps you need a bit bigger than a 5 series and maybe step up to a 6 series tractor.
I guess it needs to have FEL (front end loader) for your moving tasks and dirt work....
Lastly, you didn't mention price and if you were possibly gonna buy new or used, 4x4 or not, lots of options for you. 
Welcome to haytalk where we love to spend other folks money for them, green/red/orange/yella matters not


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## rajela

There is no D anymore they are being phased out ...If you get a D series tractor it will be a last years model. The D series now carry's and E but new E's that use to be the D's are still 6 Series and the lighter tractor are the 5 series.

The 5 series goes up to a 100HP and the 6 series starts at 105HP.

This is all from my dealer last month when i purchased the last D that he said he could get.


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## chazhk

Thanks for the input, all is thought provoking. My first idea was to go for the 5075M but then decided to focus on the 5085M. Not crazy about the E series due to the three piece frame which would allow twisting in certain situations. I would rather have the solid piece frame of the M series. Having said that, the reviews I've read on both have been less that stellar. It seems quality has left the building compared to 8 years ago. Only basing this on what I've read; maybe one of you has had a much better experience with the new models.

I hadn't looked for another 5525 due to thinking about a somewhat smaller unit, but I also know what I end up doing with my tractors and the HP comes in handy when needed.

I'm looking for 4x4 and plan on spending around $60K. I know I can get the M4610 99hp with loader for that. The JD dealer was wanting $61 for the 5075M and that is with an $11k discount. What kind of pricing are you guys seeing? Again, thanks for the feedback.


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## Teslan

chazhk said:


> Thanks for the input, all is thought provoking. My first idea was to go for the 5075M but then decided to focus on the 5085M. Not crazy about the E series due to the three piece frame which would allow twisting in certain situations. I would rather have the solid piece frame of the M series. Having said that, the reviews I've read on both have been less that stellar. It seems quality has left the building compared to 8 years ago. Only basing this on what I've read; maybe one of you has had a much better experience with the new models.
> 
> I hadn't looked for another 5525 due to thinking about a somewhat smaller unit, but I also know what I end up doing with my tractors and the HP comes in handy when needed.
> 
> I'm looking for 4x4 and plan on spending around $60K. I know I can get the M4610 99hp with loader for that. The JD dealer was wanting $61 for the 5075M and that is with an $11k discount. What kind of pricing are you guys seeing? Again, thanks for the feedback.


Go to the MF website and build the tractor that you want. Then take about 17% off that price and that will be roughly your sales price for a Massey. As told to me by my sales man at MF.


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## chazhk

Will do...Thanks Teslan!


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## Grateful11

Massey now has a 4700 series. Not sure if it's replacing the 4600 series or not.

http://www.masseyferguson.us/products/tractors/4700-series-utility-tractors.html

It's a nice looking tractor. It appears the 4700 is still not on their Build page at M-F.


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## CenTex

Chazhk,

I went through a similar tractor shopping exercise last year to replace a utility tractor I use to feed hay in the winter on my cattle ranch.

A few considerations:

New or Used? It is nice to just write a check and get a new tractor with a warranty. However with a new tractor you also get all the new emission equipment. It should be a crime to put a DPF on a tractor! If you can find somethng from about 2006 through 2012 with low hours you get much more bang for the buck without the Tier 4 emissions compromises.

Size? There is no substitute for weight and HP. For general ranch work I find 100Hp the minimum (more if you are going to bale hay).

Transmission? For the tasks you described, you can probably get by with a 12 speed with dry clutch and power shuttle. However, if you ever plan to use it for haying you will want a wet clutch and a partial power shift.

Deere or anything else? You will pay more for green. I own JD, MF and Case IH. At the right price I could be happy with JD, NH, CIH or Kubota. Service and price decide.

When comparing tractors Tractordata.com and forums like this and AgTalk are useful resources.


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## mx113

You might also take a look at the T5 New Holland tractors. I own both New Holland T5 and John Deere M5 series tractors and actually prefer the ride and comfort of the T5. They are both almost new tractors, so time will tell as far as how they hold up. They were parked side by side this winter and I almost always picked the New Holland for feeding.


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## Teslan

Also you won't find this is tractor promotional material and your sales person might forget to tell you. If the tractor has DEF, but maybe also the other new emission systems. There is a federal warranty that covers that and basically anything in the engine it would affect for 5 years 3000 hours. The service manager at my MF dealer told me this when I was asking him about the DEF systems. But I'm not sure Chazk if the 4600 or 4700 series has DEF or just particle filter.

Though I hope you wouldn't have any trouble pick the best dealer for service. LIke here the NH/CIH dealer's reputation for repair and service is going down the tube fast. While for me MF is ok and I have no idea about Deere as I've never used them.


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## Teslan

Grateful11 said:


> Massey now has a 4700 series. Not sure if it's replacing the 4600 series or not.
> 
> http://www.masseyferguson.us/products/tractors/4700-series-utility-tractors.html
> 
> It's a nice looking tractor. It appears the 4700 is still not on their Build page at M-F.


It probably is replacing the 4600 series. Just like the 7700 series is replacing the 7600 series. That is one nice looking tractor. If my dad continues to not be able to do much on the farm due to health problems I will trade our MF1759 with a cab for one of these without a cab. I just don't like that 1759 except for how quiet it is. These 4700s and probably 4600s look great. Probably perfect size for small baling, raking, tedding, bush hogging and all that.


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## chazhk

I can't thank you all enough for the input! Having a 2014 F250 I'm familiar with dealing with DEF but with a tractor it may mean more than just the annoyance of having to fill a tank.

It appears I need to trek on with the research. To date the conclusions I've drawn are: if I go with a JD stay away from the E series; at least 100hp which I agree with; M-F, NH, CIH or JD M series with the right size engine should be good tractors. As for new or used, I've always bought new vehicles for fear I may be picking up someone else's problems buying used. That may not be as much of a problem with tractors. The JD I bought was 4 years old and has been a great tractor for me so...

My problem is going to be service; the only dealer even close to me is the JD dealer. They come to the ranch and service both my JD and M-F but seem to always forget a part for the M-F and have to come back a few days later...Haven't even seen a blue tractor dealer south of I-10 down I-35 but I'll check it out. Thanks again!! Feel free to throw in any other advice or experience anyone has had with any of these brands.


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## chazhk

Found out the M-F4700 is not out yet in the US. Dealer will get them in may. It's not replacing the 4600. The 4700 is supposedly a stronger built, heavier tractor for tougher projects according to the dealer.

Looks like I need to make a few road trips as the different brand dealers in this area are pretty scattered. Thanks all!


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## 506

From my days hunting S Tx, you're choices might be limited. All I remember seeing is Deere dealers between San Antonio and Laredo. Even going west to Uvalde and Camp Wood I don't remember any dealers other than Deere. It's been a few years since I went out to Camp Wood so maybe the dealer situation has changed.

If you look at Deere, don't look at the 5075 in any version (E or M). I put the first 17 hours on one last spring before it decided to die while I was mowing hay on a custom ag job. The wiring harness melted down. Plus, it had power issues that I've since learned are not unusual on that tractor. I've talked around and learned of a number of folks who found similar power issues leading others to take their machines back to the dealership for something else in green. My sources tell me the 5075's come out of Mexico and are known to be dogs. It's a 3 cyl block and is clearly being pushed as the 5075 is the max hp of that block size.

The 5075 didn't come home with me as the dealer and I settled on upgrading to a 5085 (E). My only regret is I didn't know enough to move up to the M instead of the E. As of Sunday I only have 150 hours on the 5085 and have been pleased with it. The largest implement I pull is a MX-15 shredder. I ran it through 18" wet winter killed pasture grass in January and thick rye grass a few weeks ago. With the unit set at a 5" cut, the tractor had the power to pull the shredder in B Range, 1st or 2nd, depending on the grade of the land.

The 5085 MWFD, with loader, is on the order of $55000. I just looked at a 6 series (105 and 130) a few weeks back in case I hit the lottery or somehow come into more money than I know what to do with. The tractor with MWFD starts at around $60000. Add another $8000 or so for the loader and suddenly you're staring at numbers approaching $70000. Now, I will say, the 6 series is a beast compared to the 5 series and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I wasn't in danger of getting laid off right now.


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## rajela

Tractor Data shows that the 6 series D tractors are manufactured in a factory at Saltillo, Mexico.

The 5 series E tractors show that some are manufatured in Augusta, Georgia and the others are manufactured in Pune, Maharashtra, India


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## aawhite

For no more than you use, you could probably pick up a used JD 6000 series with cab, MFWD, and loader and spend half what you are lookign at now and get aq perfectly suitable tractor That will last as long as you need it.


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## Vol

rajela said:


> Tractor Data shows that the 6 series D tractors are manufactured in a factory at Saltillo, Mexico.
> 
> The 5 series E tractors show that some are manufatured in Augusta, Georgia and the others are manufactured in Pune, Maharashtra, India


The 5E series is made in India.... the 5E LIMITED series models were assembled in Augusta(5083 & 5093 & 5101).

Regards, Mike


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## rajela

OK that explains it...I had a 5093E Limited and it showed it was manufactured in Augusta.

All the 6 series are made in Mexico....right???


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## chazhk

I just received a proposal from the JD dealer on a 5085M with cab, 4x4, and loader. His price is $69,712. Doesn't sound like a deal to me. He quoted $72,753 for the 5100M comparably equipped.

aawhite you have a good point. I will check out the 6000D if I can find one close. I have options and with all the help everyone has given me I have a better idea of what NOT to buy! =)) It's a fun process...but it is a process...Thanks all!!


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## rajela

chazhk said:


> I just received a proposal from the JD dealer on a 5085M with cab, 4x4, and loader. His price is $69,712. Doesn't sound like a deal to me. He quoted $72,753 for the 5100M comparably equipped.
> 
> aawhite you have a good point. I will check out the 6000D if I can find one close. I have options and with all the help everyone has given me I have a better idea of what NOT to buy! =)) It's a fun process...but it is a process...Thanks all!!


Those aren't bad for an M series tractor....Check and see what these blue tractor cost . They are good tractors also...

http://agriculture1.newholland.com/nar/en-us/about-us/buying-services/sale/find-a-dealer?gclid=CNvd58G4mcwCFZGIaQodc2cGTg&ef_id=Vo8VJgAAAHxk2thE:20160419002645:s


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## chazhk

Will do, thanks.


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## Grateful11

506 said:


> From my days hunting S Tx, you're choices might be limited. All I remember seeing is Deere dealers between San Antonio and Laredo. Even going west to Uvalde and Camp Wood I don't remember any dealers other than Deere. It's been a few years since I went out to Camp Wood so maybe the dealer situation has changed.
> 
> If you look at Deere, don't look at the 5075 in any version (E or M). I put the first 17 hours on one last spring before it decided to die while I was mowing hay on a custom ag job. The wiring harness melted down. Plus, it had power issues that I've since learned are not unusual on that tractor. I've talked around and learned of a number of folks who found similar power issues leading others to take their machines back to the dealership for something else in green. My sources tell me the 5075's come out of Mexico and are known to be dogs. It's a 3 cyl block and is clearly being pushed as the 5075 is the max hp of that block size.
> 
> The 5075 didn't come home with me as the dealer and I settled on upgrading to a 5085 (E). My only regret is I didn't know enough to move up to the M instead of the E. As of Sunday I only have 150 hours on the 5085 and have been pleased with it. The largest implement I pull is a MX-15 shredder. I ran it through 18" wet winter killed pasture grass in January and thick rye grass a few weeks ago. With the unit set at a 5" cut, the tractor had the power to pull the shredder in B Range, 1st or 2nd, depending on the grade of the land.
> 
> The 5085 MWFD, with loader, is on the order of $55000. I just looked at a 6 series (105 and 130) a few weeks back in case I hit the lottery or somehow come into more money than I know what to do with. The tractor with MWFD starts at around $60000. Add another $8000 or so for the loader and suddenly you're staring at numbers approaching $70000. Now, I will say, the 6 series is a beast compared to the 5 series and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I wasn't in danger of getting laid off right now.


The 5075E and the 5075M aren't in the same class. You are correct that the 5075E is a 2.9L 3 cyl. but the 5065M and the 5075M have a 3L 5 cyl. I read somewhere that the 3L 5 cyl. can made to produce up to 99HP. My wife test drove a 5085E and she told the dealer she wouldn't trade the 5065M even for it, she said just didn't feel right at all and she's been driving tractors for a long long time. They wanted 4WD but with the deal they got on a new 5065M Tier 3, Loader ready, 16F/16R trans, Power Reverser and Cab for $32K it was hard to pass up. It was some of the last ones they made.

I'm actually quite surprised at how well the little engine does. It's not very thirsty either. She'd still like to have a 5085M but my word, the price is ridiculous. I've seen some low hours 5085M's that aren't too bad.


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## mx113

http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Deere-5100M-/282008383394?hash=item41a9026fa2:g:~~kAAOSw~oFXE9Yq


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## Teslan

chazhk said:


> I just received a proposal from the JD dealer on a 5085M with cab, 4x4, and loader. His price is $69,712. Doesn't sound like a deal to me. He quoted $72,753 for the 5100M comparably equipped.
> 
> aawhite you have a good point. I will check out the 6000D if I can find one close. I have options and with all the help everyone has given me I have a better idea of what NOT to buy! =)) It's a fun process...but it is a process...Thanks all!!


Quickly built a 5085M on their website and without the loader they are saying $69k. So I suppose that's another $15,000. Maybe they also come down about 17% from list price. Just the JD list price is more then MF or NH.


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## Teslan

As for NH tractors. I don't think I would buy one. We have a nice T6030 and it's as comfy as they come, but it has had quite a few little annoying problems. Door latch issues, front hood issues. Stupid 5 cent o ring leaking issue and have to take off the whole back tire to get to it issues. Nothing that kept it from operating besides the leaky o ring. My cousin has one also and has had injector issues and tac guage issues. They have told him you need to change the fuel filter more then the manual says. He has more hours on his NH then I have on mine. Though these are 2008 tractors I can't help but think quality has not gotten better and has had more complications added to them.


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## chazhk

Thanks guys, yeah I think from some research, input from you guys, and reviews I'm pretty much going to narrow the search to a slightly older JD (got my eye on a 2012 6100D) or a new M-F. I'm sure they all make some great models but I currently have one of each of the aforementioned brands and both have given great trouble-free results. The only other brand I would consider looking at would be the CaseIH. We have weather issues the rest of the week but I'm pretty sure my Friday and Saturday will be tied up visiting tractor lots around San Antonio! I'll keep you guys posted and I really appreciate all the input. Chaz


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## chazhk

One more question...Has anyone had experience with a JD 6100D? Talking with a guy about a 2012 with cab and loader. MFWD


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## rajela

chazhk said:


> One more question...Has anyone had experience with a JD 6100D? Talking with a guy about a 2012 with cab and loader. MFWD


Good tractor...how many hours and what transmission? They come standard with 9F/9R and left hand reverser. With just the 9 speed it is difficult to find just the right speed some times. My wife's Son in Law has one and has not had any issues. They quite making the 6100D in 2012.


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## chazhk

The JD 6100D has 572hrs. I think the trans is the 9/9 you mentioned. Its pretty much equipped like a good number of the tractors I've been researching. One difference in the 6100D and the M-F4610 I'm looking at is the JD has a 4cyl engine and the M-F has 3cyls and a little shorter wheel base. Another is the JD is 4 years older but low hrs and $2k cheaper than the new M-F. Something to think about...


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## rajela

What is he asking for the 6100D? 572 hrs ain't nothing....if he has the price right.


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## chazhk

He's asking $52,900 but may be able to get a few bucks off of that.


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## rajela

If the MF is the tractor in the linkhttp://www.masseyferguson.us/products/tractors/4600-series-utility-tractors.htmlthen it is comparable to the 5 series JD. The 6 series JD is a closer comparision to this tractor. http://www.masseyferguson.us/products/tractors/4700-series-utility-tractors.html

Depending on if you want a new tractor or used tractor just remember the JD will out weight the MF by over 2,000lbs. If you step up to a MF that is close to the JD in weight and frame size then your looking at the 4700 or 5600 Series MF.


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## CenTex

chazhk said:


> He's asking $52,900 but may be able to get a few bucks off of that.


Welcome to the world of shopping for used tractors.

The JD 6100D sounds like the one advertised by Kubacak Farms on TractorHouse.

The independent tractor dealers are like automobile used car dealers. They range from the highlty reputable to the "jockeys" who just flip equipment they buy at auctions. I would want to know the history of the machine, what they did to it to get it ready to sale, and if possible a contact number to speak to the prior owner. You probably will not get much price concession since it is a model that they can move easly but at that price I would want it fully serviced and delivered.

The last time I shopped for a used tractor I compiled a list of all the new equipment dealers within a 250 mile radius. I called and talked to the sales manager at each and gave them my contact information. I bookmarked their websites and checked their online inventory frequently. Usually the best deals will be on a tractor a dealer took as a trade in on a larger tractor.


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## rajela

Go here and do a comparision using the NH website. I used a NH T5.105 vs JD5105D vs MF4610 vs MF5610 since these are the closet to the tractors you are looking at.

Notice the 3 pt lift capacity, Fuel capacity, weight, length & width. The JD is way short on tranny.

http://agriculture1.newholland.com/nar/en-us/about-us/buying-services/pre-sale/compareresults?family=Tractors&seriesId=2242


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## chazhk

I agree CenTex and you're right about the seller. I ask him about the history of the machine and all he said was it came out of East Texas; which led me to thinking he bought it at auction. I've never felt comfortable about the tractor since that conversation for that very reason.

One thing that really makes the process hard is that I am not a "dyed in the wool" fan of any particular brand. If I was it would certainly narrow my search. Having said that I think I will just stick with the brands I know...John Deere and Massey Ferguson. I can get a great deal on the M-F4610M but the dealer does not service my area. (I can order the parts and the JD dealer will service it when he services the JD I currently own). The JD I want is the 5100M but is $8K more than the Massey. Sounds like a no brainer huh? There are differences in the specs: trans on the JD is 16/16 and on the M-F9/9.

The JD should give me a smoother ride with a longer wheel base and is a 4cyl vs a 3cyl. The JD is 100hp with PTO of 85hp. The Massey is 99hp/80hp; and there are others. I guess I need to make a list of Pros and Cons starting with the $8000...man, what's in that green paint!! The good thing is I don't have to make a decision today but my wife sure wishes I would...she tired of listening to me talk about it!


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## rajela

Don't compare that MF4610M to a 5100M.....they are totally different tractors.....you need to compare apples to apples and then compare $$$$$


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## CenTex

Chazhk,

a comment on your brand preferences

Massey Ferguson is a brand of AGCO, Case IH and NH are CNH Industrial brands. The last time I looked ACGO worldwide ag sales are about 1/3 the size of Deere. CNH is about 2/3 the size of Deere. There are not many AGCO dealers in your part of Texas so there is not much M-F equipment in the field in your area. The largest dealer is probably Blackland Implement up in Temple Texas and they are not that large.

There are more Case IH and NH dealers in your area particularily if you look northeast or southeast of San Antonio. There are die-hard advocates of each of the colors, but on a reputation basis I would consider Case IH and NH to be the leading contenders to JD. There is a lot more of these tractors in the field so the prices will be more competitive.

Kubota is pushing hard to make inroads in the USA utility tractor market. The quality is very good and the M series around 100HP have a good reputation. However, it is hard to find a low hour used machine because their owners usually hang on to them.

I would go for the most engine (HP and displacement), transmission and overall weight you can get for $$$ in your budget.


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## chazhk

Thanks CenTex, a lot of good info has been given the last several days and it all helps in the decision making process. I actually have a M-F dealer in Sequin, TX about an hour and a half from the ranch but that is the only one in my part of the state. Like you say, not many around. I'll continue the search and thanks for the additional info. I'm assuming regarding the Case it would be their Farmall line correct?


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## Tx Jim

CenTex said:


> Kubota is pushing hard to make inroads in the USA utility tractor market. The quality is very good and the M series around 100HP have a good reputation. However, it is hard to find a low hour used machine because their owners usually hang on to them.


 Look at Craig's list,Tractorhouse or Fastline I've seen several low hour,late model Kubota tractors for sale. I purchased a '11 Kubota M7040,cab,MFWD,FEL in '12 that only had 137 hrs on it. The remaining warranty was transferred to me although I didn't ever have a need for the warranty as my tractor now has 1300 trouble free hrs. It appears there are 3 Kubota dealer locations close to OP. One of the reasons I chose Kubota over JD because I don't like all the electronically controlled functions on a JD.


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## CenTex

Tx Jim said:


> One of the reasons I chose Kubota over JD because I don't like all the electronically controlled functions on a JD.


I agree 100% on the electronics.

When I was looking last fall I was interested in something like a M108X or M125X. I did not find much available except from a few jockeys with which I was not comfortable.

EWALD Kubota in the OP's area is an excellent dealer. I have done business with them several times.


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## Tx Jim

Here's one used Kubota I found on CL. http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grq/5539096829.html


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## rajela

CenTex said:


> I agree 100% on the electronics.
> 
> When I was looking last fall I was interested in something like a M108X or M125X. I did not find much available except from a few jockeys with which I was not comfortable.
> 
> EWALD Kubota in the OP's area is an excellent dealer. I have done business with them several times.


Enlighten me on all the electronically controlled functions????


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## Tx Jim

Some JD tractors can't be shifted from fwd/reverse without activating relays. Most JD MFWD is relay controlled. Same with some hyd functions such as 3 pt hitch. Electronic controls are great until they quit operating correctly. My Kubota has a hyd shuttle controlled by a cable with no relays & 3 pt hitch is manually controlled as is MFWD. But I think some of the newer larger HP Kubota's have electronic controlled functions.


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## CenTex

rajela said:


> Enlighten me on all the electronically controlled functions????


Many of the larger tillage tractors are loaded with electronics. The ECU, transmission, steering, implement linkage, emission controls and operator console all communicate with each other electronically. Part of this is driven by the automation necessary for precision farming.

The following link is to a 2007 paper describing the architecture for this

https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/10597/ATOE;jsessionid=84CBE15160B481658061CC7BB796A785?sequence=1

These electronic controls are begining to find their way down to Utility class tractors. Part of the reason is the need to real time monitor the increasingly complex emission control equipment. It is also being used for manufacturing cost reduction.

There is an interesting controversy brewing in the industry about the tractor owners rights as to access to the software that runs the tractor. When you buy a tractor you own the tractor but you do not own the onboard software that controls it. Often it takes a service tech with a laptop to even pull diagnostic codes.


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## chazhk

Think the airline industry calls it "fly by wire". The world is getting to complicated...when I was demoing a M-F the dealer was going over the controls. He pointed to the throttle lever and said it was no longer a manual operation but electronic and there would be a slight hesitation when pushing or pulling the lever to adjust the speed. Not your grandpa's tractor any more!

Checking out a Case IH 105C Friday and a JD 5100M Saturday. I will look at a Kubota next week.


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## Grateful11

If I were ordering a 5000M series tractor I would get the 32F/16R tranny. That high/low in each gear would be worth the money, about $1500.


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## mx113

chazhk said:


> Think the airline industry calls it "fly by wire". The world is getting to complicated...when I was demoing a M-F the dealer was going over the controls. He pointed to the throttle lever and said it was no longer a manual operation but electronic and there would be a slight hesitation when pushing or pulling the lever to adjust the speed. Not your grandpa's tractor any more!
> 
> Checking out a Case IH 105C Friday and a JD 5100M Saturday. I will look at a Kubota next week.


The Case IH 105C is the same tractor as the New Holland T4.105. The Case IH 105U is the same tractor as the New Holland T5.105. The U series is a lot more tractor.


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## rajela

CenTex said:


> Many of the larger tillage tractors are loaded with electronics. The ECU, transmission, steering, implement linkage, emission controls and operator console all communicate with each other electronically. Part of this is driven by the automation necessary for precision farming.
> 
> The following link is to a 2007 paper describing the architecture for this
> 
> https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/10597/ATOE;jsessionid=84CBE15160B481658061CC7BB796A785?sequence=1
> 
> These electronic controls are begining to find their way down to Utility class tractors. Part of the reason is the need to real time monitor the increasingly complex emission control equipment. It is also being used for manufacturing cost reduction.
> 
> There is an interesting controversy brewing in the industry about the tractor owners rights as to access to the software that runs the tractor. When you buy a tractor you own the tractor but you do not own the onboard software that controls it. Often it takes a service tech with a laptop to even pull diagnostic codes.


Yes sir they been controlling emmissions with senors and computers for years on tractors and the technology was developed years before that in the automobile industry. My question was directed more to Jim and his response that Kubota was not electronically controlled like a JD but the Orange machinces control emission and other engine functions just like everyone else.

To say that JD's reverser that is controlled by electrical solenoids and relays is inferior is pretty funny.


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## Tx Jim

rajela said:


> To say that JD's reverser that is controlled by electrical solenoids and relays is inferior is pretty funny.


I didn't state the JD reversers were inferior just stated I don't like how they're controlled.

I'll bet if your JD reverser relay,wiring or other electronic components fails after JD dealer sends you the bill you won't think it's so FUNNY. 

Granted as time continues Kubota's are acquiring more electronics but my Kubota is a '11 with very little electronics.

I'm old school and I don't like electronics. My JD 4255 operates just fine without electronics and it would surprise me if a same size newer JD will have much better if any fuel economy.


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## Tx Jim

Grateful11 said:


> If I were ordering a 5000M series tractor I would get the 32F/16R tranny. That high/low in each gear would be worth the money, about $1500.


I'm sure I'll catch flack but I think 32 fwd gears is a might excessive. I've owned a tractor with a 16 speed trans since '93 and have never utilized all 16 speeds in my farming/custom baling operation. Granted sometimes a 1/2 MPH slower or faster is nice but 1/4 MPH or less?


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## Grateful11

Electronics are everywhere. The CaseIH 5140 here has an electronically controlled 3 point hitch, it's the most complicated hitch control I've ever seen. It never seems to work like it's suppose to. Luckily almost everything that goes behind it is pulled off the drawbar and not the hitch. Under the dash and hood is multitudes of solenoids and relays and this tractor is 23 or 24 years old. It rarely misses a beat but when my late FIL first got it it had its share of electrical problems, left him sitting in the middle of the road one day, a solenoid or relay decided to fall out of it's socket or something.

Don't get me wrong it's a great tractor. The 5.9L Cummins is a great engine, just the right amount of weight, has powershift and just an all round nice size. If anything major ever happened to it, it would be difficult to replace.

Here's a 3 page thread on the crazy hitch controls: http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/76460-5240-help-needed/


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## Vol

Tx Jim said:


> I'm sure I'll catch flack but I think 32 fwd gears is a might excessive. I've owned a tractor with a 16 speed trans since '93 and have never utilized all 16 speeds in my farming/custom baling operation. Granted sometimes a 1/2 MPH slower or faster is nice but 1/4 MPH or less?


When square baling very large windrows that 2 or 3 tenths of a mph can be a real difference maker in making the baler sing and throw out a perfectly consistent bale every time for a accumulator.....basically the same can be said when operating a planter.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

Tx Jim said:


> I'm old school and I don't like electronics. My JD 4255 operates just fine without electronics and it would surprise me if a same size newer JD will have much better if any fuel economy.


I don't like electronics either because when you submit to these modern electronically controlled tractors, then you are also submitting to the dealerships lording it over you. You basically are taking your neighborhood area mechanic out of the picture.....unless he can sneak a dealer laptop home with him.

Regards, Mike


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## Grateful11

I agree Mike.

The little Kubota L3940 here has a 2 speed electronic shifter for each hydro range, it's a lever mounted on the steering column. Everyone uses it all the time. I think it drops the speed by 25-30% going from high to low.

To me in a field tractor just the ability to drop that small amount when making turns would make it worth it.


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## Tx Jim

Vol said:


> When square baling very large windrows that 2 or 3 tenths of a mph can be a real difference maker in making the baler sing and throw out a perfectly consistent bale every time for a accumulator.....basically the same can be said when operating a planter.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike I know you're correct it's just difficult for old timers to change their habits.


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## chazhk

I know what you mean Jim...phones used to be easy, you just flipped it open, dialed the number and pushed talk. With the new ones, if one of the grandkids isn't around I'm in trouble! May have to have one riding the buddy seat when I'm on the tractor! oh well.....


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## JMT

A quick word on Kubota and another on electronics.

From experience, service and support from Kubota is (or possibly was?) poor. I don't mean from dealer, I am sure that varies locally. I mean from Kubota Corp or manufacturing or whatever it is. When I had a problem with my M120 that the dealer service dept. was unfamiliar with, we (myself and dealer) had zero support/help from Kubota. Dealers service manager was left to calling other dealers to see if anybody else had a similar problem. No infrastructure from Kubota to report or record the problem or to receive help from Kubota. Was left to talk with Kubota area service representative. It took 6 months before he was in the area and he was useless (by that time problem was repaired through trial and ERROR). Only other resource was a number for Kubota Corp. head of sercice (competing dealer was only one to give me the number). Number was answered with a message that said to leave a detailed message or your call would not be returned. I guess I was not detailed enough because I never heard from them.

Maybe things are better now from Kubota Corp but the experience has ruined Kubota products for me. In fact I would have gotten rid of my M120 after that except the resale on it in my area was really crappy.

Now just a little about electronics. They may not be as bad as they seem. The most frequent reoccuring problem I have with my M120 is the cable that connects the remote hydraulic valves. Lost count how many times I have replaced (by myself and dealer tech). I think I would like an electric control over manual cable in that case.


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## BCRick

I bought a new Kubota M110GX in late 2014, lots of bells and whistles - instructors seat, Bluetooth, Cd player, good AC and heater, air ride power seat, 4WD, 2 sets hyd's. Use it for feeding, snow removal and haying.

Put on a M-41 loader, third function, auto level and easy ride.

PTO and three point are among the strongest in the industry.

Maintenance is key. You need to be on top of oil/hyd fluid changes and lubing.

Zero problems so far. I did get a free 5 year warranty and insure thru Kubota so everything imaginable is covered.

I am very happy with this tractor and the support from my local Kubota/Vermeer/Kuhn dealer.

BCRick


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## r82230

As far as NH / CaseIH, look at spending the few additional dollars and go to the T5-115 verses T5-105, it will be the 'cheapest' HP you will ever purchase. It is the same engine for the T5-85, 95, 105 and 115 models.


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## chazhk

Took pics of the old Massey today and sent to the dealers for a trade in number. Looking at the JD5100M and the CaseIH100C tomorrow. Going to see why there is $10K difference in the two. I'm sure there is good reason other than the green paint! We'll see...


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## mx113

The Case C series will be closer to the John Deere E series in price and features.


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## chazhk

Well, all said all done. Delivering it next week. I'm sure some will shake their heads and others will think I did alright but I feel very good about my choice. I went with the 2016 Case 100C. I liked the layout and roominess of the cab and how quiet the engine ran as well as how smooth it rode and other features. Has a lot of power for the size engine. Of course I'll find out a lot more about it once its on the ranch and I'm putting it to work. For what I use a tractor for I feel I've made the right choice for me. If I worked a tractor as hard as a lot of you do I may have gone with the JD5100M, if staying with the 100hp, but seeing as I don't I couldn't justify the extra $13k. The dealership is good sized and they will travel to the ranch (51 miles) and service both the Case and the JD. The Massey dealer was pretty much saying he would love to sell me a tractor but as for service..."you're on you own"...

Thanks for all the input from everyone, I've enjoyed all the posts, your thoughts, your stories, and will let you know how things go over time. I will keep up to date with the other posts; its interesting to see the good fortune (and bad) with the machinery as well as how problems are solved. Take care all!

Chaz


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## Vol

Good Luck to you Chaz.

Regards, Mike


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## clowers

Nothing like a brand new rig. Good Luck


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## Teslan

chazhk said:


> Well, all said all done. Delivering it next week. I'm sure some will shake their heads and others will think I did alright but I feel very good about my choice. I went with the 2016 Case 100C. I liked the layout and roominess of the cab and how quiet the engine ran as well as how smooth it rode and other features. Has a lot of power for the size engine. Of course I'll find out a lot more about it once its on the ranch and I'm putting it to work. For what I use a tractor for I feel I've made the right choice for me. If I worked a tractor as hard as a lot of you do I may have gone with the JD5100M, if staying with the 100hp, but seeing as I don't I couldn't justify the extra $13k. The dealership is good sized and they will travel to the ranch (51 miles) and service both the Case and the JD. The Massey dealer was pretty much saying he would love to sell me a tractor but as for service..."you're on you own"...
> 
> Thanks for all the input from everyone, I've enjoyed all the posts, your thoughts, your stories, and will let you know how things go over time. I will keep up to date with the other posts; its interesting to see the good fortune (and bad) with the machinery as well as how problems are solved. Take care all!
> 
> Chaz


Thanks for sharing your tractor search with us. It's always different in each area with the choices of dealers. I wouldn't have chosen a Case or NH because the dealership is having service issues right now in my area. But if that MF dealer hinted that you would be on your own with service I'm not sure how they would sell anything new. How are you going to find anyone else with an $8000 laptop to work on a new MF tractor of any size? Our little 45 hp MF has a laptop port even. A 100hp MF would have the same or more. I agree with not being able to justify the extra $13k on a JD green paint. JD does hold their value better just due to being a JD. In my opinion not because of recent quality and service just based on good marketing. Good luck with your Case. I looked it up and looks like a nice tractor. Becareful of windows and doors when you shut them. Easy to break these days on any tractors as they don't have frames.


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## chazhk

Thanks for the feedback. In defense of the Massey dealer he is 1.5hrs from the ranch so it wasn't feasible for him to make the trip I guess. Its' not a large dealership employing several mechanics. The Case dealer is in big farm country and has 2 mechanics dedicated to "house calls". I really liked the layout of the Case cab and it was a much "beefier" machine than the M-F. Also I like the 4cyl engine over the 3cyl and it gives you a longer wheelbase for a smoother ride. The turning radius on the case is great compared to some other tractors it's size. Looking forward to putting it to work!


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## rajela

Looks like a great tractor an will fit your needs well. Congrats and let us know how she works out..


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## chazhk

Thanks, will do rajela.


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## CaseIH

chazhk

I own a 75 in that model, been very very pleased with it. I have had it for a little over a year (about 500 hours) and too date no issues. Plenty of power, a little lacking in weight but I have added some to balance it out. I think you will be very happy with it! I ran into the exact same issue with the green tractors, like them but no way to justify the additional money.

Good Luck!

Enjoy!


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## chazhk

Great to hear CaseIH, I've not read anything negative about them but it seems all tractors have issues; some more than others. I'm excited to put it to work and see how it goes. I'll have plenty of weight for what I do with it and water will be added to the rear tires.

500 hours? It will take me 3 years to put 500 hours on this one! The tractors only get used on weekends; however now that I'm retired I'm at the ranch more and so I expect that number to go up. With all the rain we've had down there this year the place is green and overgrown so the work is about to begin. There will be plenty of shredding and dirt work to do. Thanks for your feedback.


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## chazhk

Ok so one more question.....maybe....

I was to have done the deal on a Case IH 100C yesterday but the sales guy decided to go to west Texas for a few days so it not done yet. With that being said its given me time to do more comparing. The CIH has a three piece frame and the JD5100D has a solid rail frame. Has anyone had issues with the three piece frame? For some reason I'm having difficulties wrapping my pea sized brain around that concept. Any help here is appreciated! Thanks!


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## slowzuki

I think you wrote that backwards, pretty sure the Massey is a 16x16 and the JD has that 3 speed 3 range affair.



chazhk said:


> One thing that really makes the process hard is that I am There are differences in the specs: trans on the JD is 16/16 and on the M-F9/9.


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## chazhk

You are correct slowzuki, sorry for the misquote.


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## CenTex

chazhk said:


> Ok so one more question.....maybe....
> 
> I was to have done the deal on a Case IH 100C yesterday but the sales guy decided to go to west Texas for a few days so it not done yet. With that being said its given me time to do more comparing. The CIH has a three piece frame and the JD5100D has a solid rail frame. Has anyone had issues with the three piece frame? For some reason I'm having difficulties wrapping my pea sized brain around that concept. Any help here is appreciated! Thanks!


Chazhk,

I do not think a three piece frame will be an issue wiith the type of usage you described in your original post. If I were planning to do an extensive amount of heavy loader work on uneven ground or mostly tillage I might consider it a factor.

When using different tractors of similar size and HP I find that the transmission with which the tractor is equiped makes the biggest difference at the end of the day as to how well I liked the tractor. I do not like a 3x3. I often find the gears too widely spaced.


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## chazhk

Thanks CenTex We're in south Texas so pretty much level ground made up of red dirt, sandy loam.


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## chazhk

Well...went down and signed the paperwork on the Fiat...I mean Case 100C yesterday. I took the Shack Bully (house boss) with me to check it out. She loved it so much I think she now has plans to move over from the JD. I have a 10' pull shredder on the JD and I bought an 8' lift shredder for the CIH. She's not fond of the 10' when she has to back it up for some reason but likes the thought of the lift unit. I told her I could just put the 8' on the JD...she just smiled and said "that's ok, I like it where it is". Hummm.....

When she got out of the CIH she said "funny thing...when I was sitting in it I had the strangest desire to start speaking Italian...what's that all about"?

Ciao y'all!


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## chazhk

Well, Case IH 100C finally arrived....but there was a malfunction during the delivery! The 50 mile trip through oilfield country took its toll on the windshield. Appears as though a rock one this battle, the hole was initially about the size of a golf ball but by the time the tractor was unloaded, the hole had gotten bigger... They will line up service to install another on ASAP.

As the saying goes "It is what it is..." ^_^


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## mx113

I love the look of those tractors with the big 14.9 front tires. I ran a 10 ft moco this week with the blue version of your tractor and it did great. These tractors make their peak pto hp (90) and achieve 540 pto speed at only 1900 rpms. That's makes for a pleasant day in the drivers seat. Enjoy


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## r82230

Chazhk, nice, will even look better when the damage is fixed. The positive is at least it was 'only' one rock, and not one of your Texas' golf or baseball sized hail storms.


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## chazhk

A big AMEN to that r82230! We've had our share of those in the last 30 days. Houses, cars, trees, all took it on the chin...We were blessed, only lost two roof tiles.


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## chazhk

A while back several of you help me with questions I had when making a decision on a new tractor. As some may remember I finally settled on and Case IH 100c. I had the chance to put it to work this weekend and I am really pleased with the tractor and its performance. As with any new vehicle it took just a bit to get familiar it but after few hours I was very comfortable in the seat. We had a 4 day "work trip" at the ranch so both tractors were working full time but all the items on the agenda were checked off. I've attached a pic of the Case and on with both tractors in the frame. Thanks again to all who provided input!

Chaz


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## rajela

Nice looking tractors...the rear tire looks low on the Case..


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## chazhk

Thanks rajela...tires are full of water and sealer and flare just a bit at the bottom. I'm headed back down today to check dozer work I'm having done so I'll check them to be sure all is well. Thanks again have a great day!


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## mlappin

Vol said:


> . I think there are four models M5075, M5085, M5100 and M5115. The last three numbers being engine horse power.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Why can't all manufacturers do that?

Our Whites were easy,

2-110, 2 wheel drive with 110hp.

6125, front wheel assist at 125hp.

4-210, articulated with 210hp.


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## Vol

mlappin said:


> Why can't all manufacturers do that?
> 
> Our Whites were easy,
> 
> 2-110, 2 wheel drive with 110hp.
> 
> 6125, front wheel assist at 125hp.
> 
> 4-210, articulated with 210hp.


Good question.....and Deere has been notorious in the past for some oddball model numbers.

Regards, Mike


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