# Surplus of hay



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

So I am coming up on a surplus of hay and a neighboring property wants me to bale their property on shares for years to come. I have cattle that I have always sold calves at about the 6 month mark. I have been producing quality hay and very much so limiting buying feed. And by doing so i took a herd of 3-4 BCS heavy breed cows last year to 4-5 BCS mostly 5s by just way of grass and hay(it was also a very dry summer and all cows had caoves on them during drought). 
So my tgought it with having a surplus of hay could someone keep bulls calves and cut them at 6 months and keeo back quality heifers and put them on pasture(limited) and feed alot of hay and put weight on them for 3-4 months with a stockpileof 12-14% protein hay? Or is it better to just sell them? I know i could give then free choice hay with feed but not sure that would work out money wise. Just looking for yalls thoughts. Would be from about 160 head of cows. Just looking for a way to make a little more from the herd and use up some hay. Also probably be best to just sell the hay???

I was thinking about 1 to 3 calves per acre? To give an idea of how populated they would be.

I guess another idea is there are alot of cheap thin young cows on the market buying some up and fating them up. I just dont like that as there is alot of risk in that and capital i would have to invest. My dad says there is alot of risk in feeding calves and I see his point.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

Price it out in terms of hay value.









Let's say you're feeding 800# bales.

800/13 pounds per day consumption (based on a rough figure of 25# / day consumption adult cow) = 61 days (amount of time it takes for the calf to get thru a bale)

Then figure your average weight gain on the calves. They're gonna grow anyways, it's just a matter of the desired body score you aim for, so this influences supplementation I'd guess.

Days Per Head a bale will feed X Weight Gain = Yield (pounds x what you get at the sale barn on the weight differential)

Then see how that pencils out against what you normally get for a bale when you sell a bale.

45 (price in our area) / Yield = Profit margin on the bale over just selling the bale

If it looks good, then it pays to run your hay thru the cattle instead of letting it set for a year (if unsold), and drop in value

If that 800# bale makes you $90 in weight gain, it's better than selling it at $45.

I guess if the land is available, and you have the capital available,, and you're willing to accept the risk of problems with the calves, it can be a good deal. I suppose the guys that run stockers on wheat figure it all up in a pretty identical way.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

Far as bringing outside animals, I dunno about that. It's what the wheat guys do, but I don't know if they also have their own herds.

If I didn't have a herd to protect, I'd bring animals in, and not worry too much about it.

If I had a herd, I'd think twice about bringing outside stock. I'm thinking that even if they're physically separated, they can still bring disease in just by being on your pasture, and being in contact with your equipment.

I'm no expert by any means.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

Then you gotta consider the slam you get on animals over 400#. You get marginally less as the weight increases. The formula takes care of that though, you'd just use expected price per hundredweight at the target shipping weight.

Gawd, I wish we were big enough to do this kind of thing. I see guys do it around here, and they haven't gone belly up yet, as far as I can tell.

Remember you're playing futures when you do this. Guess you gotta add that to the risk factors.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Well first off my hales are not 800# more like 1600plus... But that bale is worth 45 here..
I can keep outside stock seperate(different property) from my herd.
I was wondering what costs of vaccines sick calves and dead loss. Thought maybe someone has a formula or rule of thumb like expect 25$ per head to factor that in.

Also can you take a 400lbs bull on hay/pature to 800lbs how long would that take what kind of gain would one expect? How much loss from castrating them and so on.

I could just keep heifers back and grow them out sell them locally keep some....


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

I have no problem keeping calves I have raised to a higher weight if feeds is available at the right price. Buying calves from others has different degrees of risk, from a herd you know low if vaccinated for what is in your area. Mixed calves from sale barns, you better be best friends with a sharp vet.

If you vaccinate and castrate calves at 3 or 4 months and your weather is not extreme all should be good. Then wean and re vaccinate and put pounds on with your hay till market price says the feedlot can put it on cheaper. Unless you figure ever bull in the country will get in feed the heifers as well. If they get bread before 650 pound that is a selling point to call them replacement heifers.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

I was thinking right now is the time to be holding back or even starting 2 weeks ago. Seems market gets flooded right now with the north sellling off for winter and come jan-early march prices come up a little????


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

StxPecans said:


> Well first off my hales are not 800# more like 1600plus... But that bale is worth 45 here..


Have you weighed any of your bales? I've purchased many rd bales that weighed less than advertised. It takes a very good grass hay bale to weigh 1600+ #s at correct moisture content


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Yes just 2 days ago. But I dont have a 4 foot baler.
1613# was the average on 14. I started weighing bales so when i feed i know whats going out. Also all batchs of hay i bale i sample so i know the value of the hay. I mean with my trip hopper i put out X# ofcubes per click why would I just blindly feed. That is why I even bale my own hay so I can control what goes in my cow.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

I baled some tifton 85 tuesday. Made 4 bales an acre. I baled it too wet to try to beat a rain. Did not weigh those bales but they were heavy. Infact thursday i had 2400lbs of concrete on a pallet and from the same tractor those bales were not much lighter. Had to move them 20 miles on the flatbed and 14 was a heavy load. Bales were super tight hard to spear. Fed out most bales were already heating 2 days later. Hay spear was pretty warm after feeding them out. 
Left 5 bales in a small.pasture so i just have to open a gate to feed. Hope they didnt catch on fire.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

Here's the disparity on weights/price at sale time.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/ko_ls760.txt

We don't castrate, so we can't carry on out to 800#, so that's a moot point as far as we go.


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

I did not expect our prices to be a bit higher than yours. Figured being closer to the big feedlots up north means less shipping so a higher price. 
Also they break down classes alot more than they do around here.

I kept back a couple of heifers this year for replacments (25head) and they are looking good. Now i wish i would have cut 3 or 4 bull calves and thrown them in the mix just to see how it would have worked out as a test.

I guess ideally though i should castrate at birth and ear tag and implant. Anyone ever use those little catch pens you pull with an atv or side by side? Seems alot easier than getting them in a pen. I normally calve in a 300 acre pasture (not ideal but how my pecans and cattle just work out that way)

Didnt the 4 corners area sell off alot of cattle this summer due to drought? Wouldnt they be restocking next spring?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I always plan to sell my last group of calves the second sale after Thanksgiving. They seem to do well. Steers and heifers, weaned, 2 rounds of shots and on feed. Do not want them too fleshy though.

The first of December is when the wheat fields are looking for calves. Our target weight to sell then is 450-525.


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

I think that's good advice. On the flip side, I notice prices are down when the stockers come off of wheat. They all hit the market at the same time.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

farmersamm said:


> I think that's good advice. On the flip side, I notice prices are down when the stockers come off of wheat. They all hit the market at the same time.


Prices do drop when cattle come off of wheat. They are pulled earlier than those on ryegrass. The wheat needs time to head out. Between that time and cool season perennial grazing, prices take a hit. Just no place to graze them for a few weeks.

Winter grazing has it's own little niche. Most of the stockers graze permanent pasture during the normal warm and cool perennial grass seasons. All of the stocker operations I know drill winter grazing in their permanent pastures.

A lot of wheat is drilled into the corn fields. That opens up another door that is seasonal specific grazing. The cattle going on wheat are in price competition with the calves going on ryegrass.

Getting our calves ready to spend the winter on wheat has paid well for us the last few years. We see the biggest price difference in preconditioned calves and common calves in early December. 450-500 weight calves will spend the entire season on wheat and be ready for the feed lot when the grazing period is over.

Stockers are getting 50 cents per lb. now to grow calves. They can pay good money for a calf that is ready..


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