# Older John Deere Hard Start



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

I have inherited the farm and feed responsibilities on my sister-in-laws farm when her husband was killed last year. They have an older JD that I think is a 2450 or 2640. There are no labels and not a lot of paint left. If it helps to identify, the battery compartment is up high right in front of the steering wheel with a removable door and can only house a small battery. IF I can resolve a few chronic problems the remainder of its life will consist of putting out round rolls two or three times a week. The biggest problem: Starting. I hope there are some knowledgeable folks who have heard of this and there is a proven boilerplate repair. If the temperature is 75-80 down to 45-50, it will start with fluid and cranking on the steering wheel. I was told cranking the wheel is somehow relieving fluid resistance. If the tractor has sat for a day with temperatures below 40 I know I will have to put the battery charger on boost. The battery does NOT drain. It can set for a month and still have a charge. IF I have to use the charger, it will spin fast enough to start with starting fluid.

To summarize, The factors that slow down the cranking rpm speed of the motor when trying to start are unclear. Battery? It has a new, highest CCA amp that will fit in the battery box. Starter?, Some unknown but missing hydraulic bypass? I know the CCA goes way up when using the charger boost but is sounds like a different tractor when starting.

Has anyone ran into a tractor like this? Am I troubleshooting a combination of possible fuel, battery, charge, hydraulic flow release issues. The tractor runs good and is surprisingly stout. I am not wild about the gear speeds but that doesn't matter fi I can't get it started.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

The actual model number should be listed on the serial number plate. It can likely be found on the forward right side frame rail. If you can find that, we can find what battery (and CCA) Deere actually specs for that model.

I assume you are using a non-Deere battery? Deere batteries are interesting. Most have higher ca/cca for their size than anything available on the market. Sometimes it's hard to pay the price they want for them, but sometimes it solves a lot of headaches in instant.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Anything old like that, check battery cables if it’s behaving strangely.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Battery cables and could be the starter needs replaced. I had an 1600 Oliver if it was below 60 would start hard. Replaced the starter with a gear reduction starter and its like a different tractor even well below freezing. Also had a JD400 that always started hard for years, finally replaced the starter and no more issues there. If your tractor is anything like our JD400 or JD401C then it should have a screw on top of the pump, turn it down until you feel resistance then give it one more full revolution, this prevents the pump from building any pressure.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

dvcochran said:


> The biggest problem: Starting. I hope there are some knowledgeable folks who have heard of this and there is a proven boilerplate repair. If the temperature is 75-80 down to 45-50, it will start with fluid and cranking on the steering wheel.


Did I read your post correctly, you need to use fluid from 75-80 to 45-50 degrees? If so, is there a constant blue smoke?

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Has the negative battery cable attachment to tractor been relocated from battery box to starter mounting bolt? Has engine had a compression test performed on it? JD engines in utility tractors such as your SIL's cant tolerate very much ether(starting fluid) before top rings & piston ring lands get broken creating low compression.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Battery cables and could be the starter needs replaced. I had an 1600 Oliver if it was below 60 would start hard. Replaced the starter with a gear reduction starter and its like a different tractor even well below freezing. Also had a JD400 that always started hard for years, finally replaced the starter and no more issues there. If your tractor is anything like our JD400 or JD401C then it should have a screw on top of the pump, turn it down until you feel resistance then give it one more full revolution, this prevents the pump from building any pressure.


. Ditto on the starters when I was a kid we had 460 in 560 Farmall diesels that my grandparents would have bought brand new. I remember those tractor not starting or starting hard from brand new. Gear reduction starters made all the difference in the world.. if you're not crnking those older diesels fast enough , they will not start


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I would definitely start at the battery, cables, and starter. You should not be using starting fluid at those temperatures or any time. Those tractors would have dual batteries.

Have starter rebuilt and/or cleaned. Had one done couple years ago and was gummed up with clutch dust. Made a huge difference and is almost a maintenance item.

If battery cables are rough you can fight it or just get new ones made (both neg. & pos.) and clean negative mounting point extremely well. It's not cheap.

You make it sound as though its not tired. Had one that required being plugged in year round to start every morning. Once it started it was fine rest of the day. If yours has a heater it would help it start until you find/resolve the issue. Be a much better option than fluid.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Look into gear reduction starter I had the same problem with several tractors that makes a world of difference.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

We have a 2640 that used to have a Delco starter. I put in a gear reduction starter and it is way better starting now. Be aware, we have a loader on it and I had to do a little grinding on the loader frame to make room. I think the starter was from a JD 6400??
If you have a volt meter, check to see what the battery voltage is when cranking. Also would be nice to know what the amp draw is from the starter while cranking.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

My 2940 has to be plugged in below 50. It is getting time to refresh the starter again. Sounds like you have similar issues. New batteries starter and cables and it usually is good for another ten years.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

r82230 said:


> Did I read your post correctly, you need to use fluid from 75-80 to 45-50 degrees? If so, is there a constant blue smoke?
> 
> Larry


Yes, I mis-spoke. 50 and above it will usually start without fluid. No smoke. Have not had to add oil as far back at 04-18 but it doesn't see a lot of use.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

hillside hay said:


> My 2940 has to be plugged in below 50. It is getting time to refresh the starter again. Sounds like you have similar issues. New batteries starter and cables and it usually is good for another ten years.


Do you have your original starter rebuilt or have you had any experience with the gear reduction starters some of the other posts are talking about? Thanks,


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I drop mine off at a local shop and they have rebuilds waiting there. It's about 10 min chat a cup of coffee and around 400 bucks


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

hillside hay said:


> I drop mine off at a local shop and they have rebuilds waiting there. It's about 10 min chat a cup of coffee and around 400 bucks


$400 for rebuilt starter? Not me Vern I can buy a new starter for less than that


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> $400 for rebuilt starter? Not me Vern I can buy a new starter for less than that


I thought the same. Usually if I take a starter to get repaired it's anout hundred bucks.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Just looked up in the Abilene Machine catalog $180 part #AMRE239087 gear reduction starter. I have bought three of these starters and plan on buying two more as soon as they are needed. I can now start these tractors without plugging them in when it is well below freezing which I never could before. Usually any temps below forty required plugging said tractors in for a couple hours.


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## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

As said before, the faster a older diesel spins while cranking the better they will fire off...

And STOP using starting fluid, you are doing more harm to a already old motor, one day it will pop the head or piston and where will you be then....


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Could be cheaper now. Last time it was changed was nearly 2500 hrs ago. As I recall the alternator was a little over 150 new then.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tx Jim said:


> $400 for rebuilt starter? Not me Vern I can buy a new starter for less than that


The man lives in NY....Ain't nothing cheap there.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Don't use ether? If I recall JD had a cold start kit that uses ether injection directly into the intake and was controlled electronically. I have had many a skidder with that water faucet looking adapter under the steering wheel center console, that you screwed the little white can with the donkey kicking upwards on to. Then when you were cranking you could hit a button and that old deere would snap to life instantly!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> Don't use ether? If I recall JD had a cold start kit that uses ether injection directly into the intake and was controlled electronically. I have had many a skidder with that water faucet looking adapter under the steering wheel center console, that you screwed the little white can with the donkey kicking upwards on to. Then when you were cranking you could hit a button and that old deere would snap to life instantly!


Yep, ran a 3010 for a guy one year, started just like that.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

These are all great suggestions. Another thing to check is to see if the hydraulic pump has a knob on it that you can turn in manually(no tools required). That knob will "de-stroke" the pump, basically turning off your hydraulics. Turn that knob in until barely snug, then try to start the tractor. Makes a HUGE difference on our JD2940. As soon as the tractor starts, turn the knob back out and your hydraulics will be back to "normal". Not sure about your model, but 2940's are a great running tractor, but known for internal hyd. oil leaks, and this is one way to test if your tractor has issues. The farmer with the earlier post from NY might want to give that a shot and see if you no longer have to plug it in if it's 50 degrees. Your Deere service manager can explain it in more detail.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I just reread this thread. Somehow I missed the model on the original post. I had a 2640 OS for at least 4 years before I traded up to a 2755 cab. It was a great tractor, probably would still have it were it equipped with cab. I did replace the ground wire and I thought it had two batteries. Other than the cable and a new battery I never had any problems and it started well in winter.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Brncntry112 said:


> These are all great suggestions. Another thing to check is to see if the hydraulic pump has a knob on it that you can turn in manually(no tools required). That knob will "de-stroke" the pump, basically turning off your hydraulics. Turn that knob in until barely snug, then try to start the tractor. Makes a HUGE difference on our JD2940. As soon as the tractor starts, turn the knob back out and your hydraulics will be back to "normal". Not sure about your model, but 2940's are a great running tractor, but known for internal hyd. oil leaks, and this is one way to test if your tractor has issues. The farmer with the earlier post from NY might want to give that a shot and see if you no longer have to plug it in if it's 50 degrees. Your Deere service manager can explain it in more detail.


Where would I find this knob. Before he passes away, my brother-in-law always cranked on the steering wheel while starting the tractor. For the reason you mentioned I think.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Technically most JD hyd pump destroking screws(key 6) have a tee handle not a knob. Valve will be located on LH frt of hyd pump


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

I believe some of the logging equipment (skidders) made by 'Deere had an electric destroke valve that destroked the pump when the machine was cranking.


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