# Wolf Re-listing in Great Lakes Region



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Humane Society Sues Feds.....wins re-instatement of protection.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/ruling-classifies-minnesota-wolves-as-threatened-news-release/


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Deer are threatened in northern MN. By wolves. Hopefully they keep shooting them.

Shoot shovel shut up.

"He was coming right for me!"


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Had a couple wolves here a few years ago. DNR came to relocate. Told the officer I could've relocated them to below ground critters like a pocket gopher, he said if you did, you had better make sure they never find the carcasses. It's a pretty bad thing I guess...


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

stack em up said:


> Had a couple wolves here a few years ago. DNR came to relocate. Told the officer I could've relocated them to below ground critters like a pocket gopher, he said if you did, you had better make sure they never find the carcasses. It's a pretty bad thing I guess...


Next thing ya know, folks will be stopping for them on the Interstate


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

They coming right for us!!!:


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> They coming right for us!!!:


Gotta love Ned and Jimbo.


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

This past Nov. 18th, I got a text at 7 a m , from son in law that they had 11 wolves in front of their house. They live 2 miles from the main farm , on a plot that overlooks a 60 acre field. On December 3rd, the pack had moved within 1/2 mile of the main farm. Next to a gravel pit, deer had been feeding on round bale scraps. The wolves had climbed up to the top of the gravel pile (25 foot elevation) and ambushed at least 3 deer that morning. (fresh blood in new snow). The left overs were handkerchief size pieces of hide, still warm (0 degrees that morning). They eat everything, skull, vertebrae, everything.

We entertain groups of deer hunters each year. 25 years of intense hunting pressure was keeping the deer damage to crops at a tolerable level. The gray wolf has in the past, and currently are, taking care of the deer population. The wolf lovers say they only eat the sick, old ,or youngest deer. RIGHT !!!!!!! And then they eat all the rest of them. So much for the balancing act.

The photo was at the farm driveway within 50 feet of a heifer barn (taken Nov. 29). I speak from experience . When you get up close to a big gray, the hair on the back of your neck straightens out. Its an automatic response. I'm pretty sure the judge who made this ruling, is clueless. I'm being really nice. I wonder how she would feel dealing with an 11 animal pack in her backyard ?


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Have gun, will travel! You have to dig the hole in michigan in December though, Uphayman.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Deal with the situation given to you.....mums the word.....the best way to deal with worrisome liberal hiearchy is not give them information to worry about....in other words, keep your mouth shut.

Regards, Mike


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

Livestock owners and farmers in general, are pretty good at self preservation. Enough said.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I know a guy that works at the elevator that was going to be hunting them this fall.They had a tag to fill.He said everyone around where they were hunting wants them dead.He was telling a lot of stories of calf/cattle kills in that area.Their family owns some property probably not far form deadmoose.

My guess there will be a lot of SSS from cattle guys.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

If I had cattle or other livestock I might feel different but since I raise crops and hay I wouldn't mind the wolves if they could keep the deer numbers low. Here there are so many deer that a natural predator would do some good.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Best thing for overpopulation in deer herds is to have much longer doe seasons with multiple tags. You control the deer population thru doe population control. Once you get wolves they eat what they find.....and that includes much, much more than deer....like your dogs and livestock.

Ask the fellas out West that have established wolf packs in their regions what their Moose and Elk population is like now that the wolves are established.

Hayden, you need to ask your wildlife agency for some depredation permits and shoot only does. It will make a significant difference.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

FarmerCline said:


> If I had cattle or other livestock I might feel different but since I raise crops and hay I wouldn't mind the wolves if they could keep the deer numbers low. Here there are so many deer that a natural predator would do some good.


Do you have small children or grand children?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> I know a guy that works at the elevator that was going to be hunting them this fall.They had a tag to fill.He said everyone around where they were hunting wants them dead.He was telling a lot of stories of calf/cattle kills in that area.Their family owns some property probably not far form deadmoose.My guess there will be a lot of SSS from cattle guys.


Whereabouts?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

This area is way too populated and not enough natural habitat for wolves anyway. I have no doubt that wolves can do a number on livestock and pets given the chance.....I would tend to think the chances of them attacking a person would be very low however. Wolves don't belong everywhere that is for sure.....and the agricultural regions of MN is probably not one of them. I'm sure it would be very frustrating to have to deal with wolves preying on livestock like I'm sure folks from the west have to deal with at times but it is just as frustrating for me to deal with the deer that are causing much damage to my crops.

I tried depredation permits for my deere problem this year and there was so many restrictions it was a pain. No shooting after dark.....that is when 90% of the damage happens to the soybeans. Wouldn't issue a permit but for just a couple people and the deer had to be in the field. I don't have time to hunt and most everyone doesn't want to hunt does. There are so many neighbors that won't allow hunting/or only big bucks that even if you kill a good number of does there are so many to move right in and take there place it is fighting a losing battle. I can remember not too terrible long ago that seeing a deer was an unusual sight.....there were a few deer around but not so many that you saw them all the time like you do now.....I wish It would have stayed like that. Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic...it's just that deer leave a real sour taste in my mouth.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yes they(deer) can leave a very sorry taste in your mouth..especially when they are eating out of your wallet. If you could kill about 15-20 doe's it would make a huge difference in your crop depredation next year. But, it does not take but one season for them to bounce right back. Maybe you can make a connection with some meat hunters to allow them to hunt on your land and on maybe a neighbor or two that might be sympathetic about the overpopulation problems. Sometimes you have to do what is right for your own situation if you cannot get help from local agencies.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Best of luck. As to the sss program, around here they have multiple wolves from each pack collared, and then they have "wolf watchers" who follow the pack around so that the big bad locals dont harm the precious puppies.
Some asshole Federal judge, actually two of them, keep stalling the State of Wyoming in its management plan. One judge is in San Francisco and the other in New York. 
There has been a vast depletion of elk and deer herds. Actually, you cannot blame the wolves. The predation comes from Federally protected grizzly bears and wolves and the state managed mountain lions. Big game herds will never recover to the levels of the 90's. 
If you want to know the unfortunate truth, the wolves are just a pawn in the anti-hunting game. If the ungulate population drops, seasons are shortened or closed, and all they really want is to prevent one generation from hunting. If they can acheive that goal, then hunting will no longer exist, think about it.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

deadmoose said:


> Whereabouts?


Have to ask again.But the proposed pipeline is to go threw their property.


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## Brian8 (Dec 8, 2014)

Yea the deer are everywhere here But at least it is really cheap to get tags. $40 gets you two bucks, two does, two your choice, one bear and two turkeys. Can't beat that price and I don't care if people say that the deer down here are small. Yea most are only 125 but it all tastes the same to my family. Wife doesn't ask me when she cooking it if this was that monster buck or young doe I shot. I shoot way more does than I do bucks. Usually get 1 maybe 2 bucks and rest does. Now the black bears need to have a longer hunting season where I'm at. I have a shit ton of them of at least 12 different bears and see about one a day. I actually saw my first mama bear that had three Cubs. She was an old girl.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Our County has a bounty on wolves again this year. If we didn't have Guard Dogs i doubt we would be able to raise sheep here. I know first hand the livestock damage they can do but i'm happy to leave them alone if they do the same. They sure are hard on the moose and deer population though.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> This area is way too populated and not enough natural habitat for wolves anyway. I have no doubt that wolves can do a number on livestock and pets given the chance.....I would tend to think the chances of them attacking a person would be very low however. Wolves don't belong everywhere that is for sure.....and the agricultural regions of MN is probably not one of them. I'm sure it would be very frustrating to have to deal with wolves preying on livestock like I'm sure folks from the west have to deal with at times but it is just as frustrating for me to deal with the deer that are causing much damage to my crops.
> I tried depredation permits for my deere problem this year and there was so many restrictions it was a pain. No shooting after dark.....that is when 90% of the damage happens to the soybeans. Wouldn't issue a permit but for just a couple people and the deer had to be in the field. I don't have time to hunt and most everyone doesn't want to hunt does. There are so many neighbors that won't allow hunting/or only big bucks that even if you kill a good number of does there are so many to move right in and take there place it is fighting a losing battle. I can remember not too terrible long ago that seeing a deer was an unusual sight.....there were a few deer around but not so many that you saw them all the time like you do now.....I wish It would have stayed like that. Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic...it's just that deer leave a real sour taste in my mouth.


Guess im kinda thankful we don't have that problem here

Good sized grain farm in the next town over had a bear problem this year. Course the game commisson was relocating all the bears to the swap next to it.... they killed a good number of them for crop damage. The black bear population does seem to be increasing in this part of PA

Largest bear taken in the state this season was taken south of here about 10-15 miles


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Coyotes are plentiful here as well. Back in 05 had some right at the back door of the barn doing chores one morning. Had a guy trap that fall and he got 6 and four in 06. Plus we've shot a few. Still two or three out there

Fishers are protected in PA and I think thats what has taken care of the small game and turkey


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

carcajou said:


> Our County has a bounty on wolves again this year. If we didn't have Guard Dogs i doubt we would be able to raise sheep here. I know first hand the livestock damage they can do but i'm happy to leave them alone if they do the same. They sure are hard on the moose and deer population though.


Wish we could put bounties on other things we determine to be "pests"....."parasites"....etc. might be a very good solution to some of our problems.....


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Sounds like need to use the 3's and when there are 2 of you it is no secret either................if they have a collar on take it to any truckstop and attach it to any Cali chicken hauler.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

panhandle9400 said:


> Sounds like need to use the 3's and when there are 2 of you it is no secret either................if they have a collar on take it to any truckstop and attach it to any Cali chicken hauler.


Oh i could tell a hell of a story here, no wait i can't. let's see collar, tracked Grizzly bear, RV and 880 miles in 2 1/2 months. You fill in the rest.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oregon-just-killed-family-wolves-181546732.html

The author doesn't seem to be cheering. Good for the locals.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

All those people that want to reintroduce wolves should have to spend a few nights out in wolf country and see if they change their mind.

Lots of people around here have stories of seeing wolves and mountain lions around here. Most of it I think is just stories. I have seen one wolf pelt that a guy I know shot a long time ago not far from Dads place. I've never seen tracks or trail camera pictures of either but I don't doubt they pass through from time to time. I'd do my best to make sure they don't establish themselves though.

Coyotes are a bigger problem around here. I snared 17 of em this winter and don't think I dented the population to much. A buddy of mine snared and shot 70+ a year ago, this winter he only got 5. Hope he thinned em out as he only lives about 5 miles cross country.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

We were really troubled with the devils about 7-8 years ago. My son found where they were coming through the barb wire fence along the river and he set a snare in December while out for Christmas break from college. He caught 6 in three weeks out of that one set.....and then when he went back to school in January I continued monitoring that snare and ended up catching 5 more until about the end of February. I go out of my way to make it hard on coyotes.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Guys like hunting coyotes here with HP rifle in winter.They can see them in the snow better.Pretty common for a few guys to get 3-6 in a afternoon.We didn't have any coyotes until about 30 yrs ago,before that we had a lot of red fox but the coyotes drove them out or killed them.A good fox pelt brought $70 around 1980??


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

My great uncle used to hunt a lot of fox. We have a bunch of his pelt stretchers in the machine shed yet. I wish they'd shoot every last damn coyote. Little bastards are mangy, filthy, nasty little wolf wannabes. I love watching fox pups play. When the coyotes come in, fox depart, and the pheasants have no more predators other than the bow tie emblem on my Chevy.... I like pheasants. They just aren't the brightest of the avian phylum...


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I like calling coyotes too. I haven't done much of it the last few years. Darn work and being responsible gets in the way of fun. I prefer snares now days, as I can check them when I have time.

I've heard so many stories from back in the 80s when fur was high. A guy I know trapped enough fox till he could buy a new pickup. Few guys I've talked to helped put themselves through college with their earnings from trapping.

Only thing worth anything this year seemed to be coyotes. Muskrats were down. **** weren't worth a thing. I snared 2 fox by accident. First one was beautiful, buyer gave me 5 bucks, 2nd one I caught late Feb, was rubbed up a bit looked a little rough. Left that one in the field.

When I was 8 or 9 years old, I started trapping gophers. Dad started off paying me 25 cents a tail. Pretty soon I was bringing in to many tails and he dropped the price down to a dime, then a nickel. I learned a lesson about over production I guess. lol


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Stack, you've just gotta hunt those pheasants to keep the population in check.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I don't hunt. Never have, never will. Our neighbor raises ringnecks, so we have LOTS of tame roosters and hens running around. Mom couldn't back out of the garage one day for the hens laying on the driveway. My lab Jake knows he gets in trouble if he eats a hen, so he just left em be....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

SSS on deer here years ago. We did the depredation permit thing as well, get twenty, fill em, send em in, get twenty more, did that year after year. didn't do a bit of good until they opened the park up across the road to hunting. Took over 700 deer in the first hunt.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Ever thing has it's place as long as it stays in it.
If it don't you thin it out.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

stack em up said:


> My lab Jake knows he gets in trouble if he eats a hen, so he just left em be....


Or at least while he knows that you are around.....and there is no such thing as a "tame" wild pheasant.....maybe more at ease....but not "tame".

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> SSS on deer here years ago. We did the depredation permit thing as well, get twenty, fill em, send em in, get twenty more, did that year after year. didn't do a bit of good until they opened the park up across the road to hunting. Took over 700 deer in the first hunt.


Most states in the Eastern US should not exceed 10 deer per square mile.....I would guess that the state park you bordered was highly overbrowsed and devoid of plant life in the forest floor....and neighboring farms(beans) were decimated. There is only one successful way to control whitetail without wolves, bears and mountain lions...and that is by having hunting seasons to control mainly the female population.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

My friend with the cabin in northern Mn in the wolf area says there are no deer left.They found a eating spot of the wolves where they drug deer back to eat and there was 2 dozen deer skulls


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> My friend with the cabin in northern Mn in the wolf area says there are no deer left.They found a eating spot of the wolves where they drug deer back to eat and there was 2 dozen deer skulls


Yep, and you have to control the wolves too or they and their offspring will eventually eat themselves out of food and destroy the wildlife population....which eventually causes the wolf population to crash....that's why it's called a "delicate balance".

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> My friend with the cabin in northern Mn in the wolf area says there are no deer left.They found a eating spot of the wolves where they drug deer back to eat and there was 2 dozen deer skulls


I have heard that from many who hunt north. And now the wolves are coming south.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

A good Wolf is part of a coat or hat.


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## Northcountryboy (May 5, 2015)

The coyotes we have here in Northern New York have breed with the Algonquin timber wolf as they migrated around the Great Lakes. They can be up to 65 lbs. and are hard on the deer. There are a few of us running dogs. Not to hard to get permission to hunt. Except for the occasional "anti hunter".


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I think that even in parks they should have a special draw hunt to keep the population in check for all animals if animals get to thick most of the time they get desised and instead of a healthy population the majority of them die off.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Northcountryboy said:


> The coyotes we have here in Northern New York have breed with the Algonquin timber wolf as they migrated around the Great Lakes. They can be up to 65 lbs. and are hard on the deer. There are a few of us running dogs. Not to hard to get permission to hunt. Except for the occasional "anti hunter".


That should help with the checks and balances.

Regards, Mike


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Awhile back about a month or so I was listening to NPR as listening to the garbage they pass off as music these days quickly gets old. It's also good to get different perspectives on issues and such some I dont agree with. But anyhow on one program they were talking about wolves with this "scientist" lady and she was saying how if they started a bounty on wolves or the wolf population was drastically reduced that farmers and ranchers would have an increase in livestock losses as other predators would increase....


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

That sounds like one of those scientific answers.
I'm glade we have these smart people making all the decisions for us.


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