# Nov 15th still haying!



## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

We are in the Champlain Valley Vermont, and folks are still haying! We have had only one good frost, is the hay still good?


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

DSLinc1017 said:


> We are in the Champlain Valley Vermont, and folks are still haying! We have had only one good frost, is the hay still good?


I would venture to say the boys in Texas would really love to have it. Yeah its good....only one heavy frost wont hurt it that much.... especially if its grass hay.

Regards, Mike


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

You bet. I keep baling right into December after several killing frost.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You can...but most university's and seed company's say not to. I don't mess with hay after a certain time as we have way too many acres of more valuable row crops to get in. Besides unless the whole season was ideal for making hay I'm pretty burned out/bored with hay when harvest starts.


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Never heard that about seed companys and universitys saying not to cut hay this late. Guidlines here are anything goes after October 15th.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

My Garst dealer and Purdue said the cutoff for making hay around here is September 15th which gives it a month to regrow so it can store energy for next year. Historically the first killing frost is October 15th to the 18th.


----------



## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

mlappin said:


> My Garst dealer and Purdue said the cutoff for making hay around here is September 15th which gives it a month to regrow so it can store energy for next year. Historically the first killing frost is October 15th to the 18th.


Yeah, but after dormancy (24 F for 1 hour or 28 F for 4 hours), you can have at it with no damage to the hay stand (unless ground conditions are too wet).


----------



## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

haybaler101 said:


> Yeah, but after dormancy (24 F for 1 hour or 28 F for 4 hours), you can have at it with no damage to the hay stand (unless ground conditions are too wet).


This is the same recommendation we've been given except it was 26 for 4 hours. We have done it for 2 years now with no problems.


----------



## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Made my last cutting sometime in late October . Have the last few years and I haven't seen any difference in the stand .


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Chessiedog said:


> Made my last cutting sometime in late October . Have the last few years and I haven't seen any difference in the stand .


It depends a lot on where you're at! And how lucky you are!

First, cutting after Sept 15th is a guideline. During the first 2-3 weeks after cutting, the plant is using it's stored sugars to generate new growth. Then, it turns around and starts storing sugars in its crown to replenish what it has used. The rule of thumb is that alfalfa needs 4-6 weeks in the fall to store enough sugars for good regrowth in the spring. If you cut and get a hard freeze real soon, your safe; likewise if you get 4-5 weeks of regrowth after cutting, you're OK. The risk comes if you get the hard freeze 2-3 weeks after cutting--the plant will have used up its sugars and not been able to store enough sugars for spring regrowth.

Our first freeze date near St. Louis averages Oct 23rd.--therefore my last cut date is Sept 15th. This year, we got our first hard freeze last night--3 1/2 weeks late. This means I could have cut as late as Oct 15th and probably been OK.

Second. How susceptible is your field to frost heave? In some areas, the ground freezes early and stays frozen all winter. In other areas, the ground hardly freezes. Here, we get a lot of freeze/thaw cycling in the top 2-3 inches. The freeze/thaw cycle is what does the damage. It breaks the crown away from the root system. A mild winter can be harder on a stand that a hard winter.

As I said, the last cut date depends on where you're at. And how lucky you are! ("Did I fire 5 shots? Or 6?"--Clint Eastwood)

Me--I don't count on being lucky-but I do appreciate it when it comes by!

Ralph

PS: Luck, spelled w-o-r-k, is when prior and proper preparation meets opportunity.


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Here after October 15th the alfalfa goes dormant so you can cut if you want.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hayray said:


> Here after October 15th the alfalfa goes dormant so you can cut if you want.


Well yes and no, doesn't really go dormant until it's had a good killing frost/freeze.

I'll try to explain this the best I can as well, also depends a lot on your winters. Here we'll get just a bit of snow then get a lot of sleet or freezing rain on top of it. It's quite possible for the alfalfa to smother under the ice if non of teh plant is sticking thru the ice. We've never lost any hay to this, but we also hardly ever cut late but my cousin has lost a total of around 50 acres over the years to this. A few other people I've talked to also seem to think by leaving 6-12" at the end of the year it helps to control heaving as the mat of material acts as insulation. Best way we've found to prevent heaving is to always plant orchard grass in our stand.


----------



## tiftman (Oct 22, 2009)

We are really just getting started for the year down here.We will cut hay till about june of next year or till the summer rains come and shut us down.


----------



## K WEST FARMS (Apr 4, 2011)

Up here in Nort. Cent. Wis. , UW recomendation is no cutting after Sept. 1....average killing frost date Sept. 25. Those that do cut stands that will be counted on for next year generally wait for hard frost , then may cut alittle higher or leave strips to help catch snow. Personally , I have noticed 1st cut yield reduction following year on alfalfa and or grass fields cut in Sept. Just the way it works for me in our part of the world!!! John


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Just baled yesterday.


----------



## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm still waiting for the ground to dry enough to bale. Grass (hermothia) should have been cut probable 3 times now, but once it started raining last spring/summer, it's not stopped long enough for the ground to get dry. Some areas still had water standing 3 or 4 inches deep, others the soil was almost wet enough to call mud. 
And 50% chance today.
OH WELL, it'll quit raining before long. Last couple years it was Dec or Jan before I could get it baled anyhow- & I figure by then it won't be too hard to sell the extra!


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

urednecku said:


> I'm still waiting for the ground to dry enough to bale. Grass (hermothia) should have been cut probable 3 times now, but once it started raining last spring/summer, it's not stopped long enough for the ground to get dry. Some areas still had water standing 3 or 4 inches deep, others the soil was almost wet enough to call mud.
> And 50% chance today.
> OH WELL, it'll quit raining before long. Last couple years it was Dec or Jan before I could get it baled anyhow- & I figure by then it won't be too hard to sell the extra!


Sounds like here the last month or so. Was wet enough we even loaded trucks a few times on the road. Grain cart and combine wasn't leaving hardly any tracks but forget about even pulling a grain truck into the field. But we got almost another 3/4" yesterday and given how wet it already was, I had water standing everywhere. Did get the last of the muck beans picked last week though, brought em home and binned them, they are black from the mud and hopefully running the stirator along with the clean beans in the bin will rub some of the muck off em.


----------



## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

urednecku said:


> I'm still waiting for the ground to dry enough to bale. Grass (hermothia) should have been cut probable 3 times now, but once it started raining last spring/summer, it's not stopped long enough for the ground to get dry. Some areas still had water standing 3 or 4 inches deep, others the soil was almost wet enough to call mud.
> And 50% chance today.
> OH WELL, it'll quit raining before long. Last couple years it was Dec or Jan before I could get it baled anyhow- & I figure by then it won't be too hard to sell the extra!


Where are you at. I am 12 miles ne of Brooksville, it is so DRY here if I was to fart it would cause a dust storm, yesterday I heard an airboat down on the river ( strange ) checked it out 2 game & fish officers spraying the Catfish for ticks & chiggers. Yea we are that dry!!! Please send us some of your rain/ water. I am going to cut 30ac of bahia grass tomorrow morning, probably be baling friday afternoon, that dosen't happen very often.

scrapiron


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

scrapiron said:


> Where are you at. I am 12 miles ne of Brooksville, it is so DRY here if I was to fart it would cause a dust storm,
> 
> scrapiron


I'll gladly trade yah. Last fall it was so dry here most of the cover crops never germinated. Had a lot of combine fires last fall as well. Now it's so wet I had one of the help dig some post holes, before he was done with the second one, the first one was 3/4 quarters full of water and this was using a gas powered two man post hole digger.


----------



## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

scrapiron said:


> Where are you at. I am 12 miles ne of Brooksville, it is so DRY here if I was to fart it would cause a dust storm, yesterday I heard an airboat down on the river ( strange ) checked it out 2 game & fish officers spraying the Catfish for ticks & chiggers. .
> 
> scrapiron


Yea, that's dry!
I live between Wauchula & Avon Park, about 60 miles E of Bradenton. The rain's backed down to every couple weeks, but the ground's still too wet, grass to thick to let it dry. If I cut, I'm scared the grass lying on wet ground would not dry, especially on bottom, and start to mold.
I did have about a week of dry weather couple months ago so I cut a few acres on a sand hill. Had to roll it before I figured it was ready, & it now smells a bit moldy & doesn't look real good. But rain came in the next day.
Yea, Mother Nature can really mess us up!

OH YEA, did I mention this will be my first season trying to do it all my self...and admit I'm not positively sure of what I'm doin'?


----------



## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

[quote name='urednecku']Yea, that's dry!
I live between Wauchula & Avon Park, about 60 miles E of Bradenton. 
Yea, Mother Nature can really mess us up!

You must be in the Lemon Grove area, cr 667 or Roberts rd areas. That is the flat woods, when it gets wet it stays wet for a long time. I have been in that area quite a few times in the last few years.

Glad you have good moisture, we have been in a drought for 5 yrs, over 120in short on rainfall in that time. Our deep, high sand hills are dry. I mowed some real rank bahia today, about 6/7 rolls (4x5) per acre, might bale late tomorrow afternoon. Normally it would take 4 days for it to dry.

scrapiron


----------



## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

mlappin said:


> I'll gladly trade yah. Last fall it was so dry here most of the cover crops never germinated. Had a lot of combine fires last fall as well. Now it's so wet I had one of the help dig some post holes, before he was done with the second one, the first one was 3/4 quarters full of water and this was using a gas powered two man post hole digger.


Marty you have a deal !!! Hou much you going to send us 2, 5, 8, 10 NOT inches but FEET of rain, yes 120 inches , would not hurt us. About 20 - 25 in per month for the next 6 months would not be to much to ask for would it ?? My sand hills could handle it easily.

scrapiron


----------

