# EPA Blundering Fools



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The EPA has poisoned the San Juan and Animas rivers in CO and NM for decades to come by plundering in a abandoned gold mine.

Regards, Mike

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/08/11/navajo-president-epa-says-spill-cleanup-could-take-decades/21221413/


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

If this had been caused by a corporation it would be plastard all over the news 24 7


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Never did say how they caused it......


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Never did say how they caused it......


Probably because it was caused by stupidity and wrecklessness and that most anyone else would have Federal charges brought against them for wreckless endangerment and creating a National disaster.

Regards, Mike


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I wonder who they are going to fine?


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Mike120 said:


> I wonder who they are going to fine?


The taxpayers of Colorado?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Nitram said:


> The taxpayers of Colorado?


In this case the taxpayers of the USA.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

No telling how many frogs and crickets would be in danger if it had been a private contractor.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I wonder how many threatened and endangered species are found within the affected drainages. Can you just imagine all of the "outrage" the liberals would be expressing if say a company like Halliburton had been involved with this disaster?

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> I wonder how many threatened and endangered species are found within the affected drainages. Can you just imagine all of the "outrage" the liberals would be expressing if say a company like Halliburton had been involved with this disaster?
> Regards, Mike


I bet BP can tell ya ........


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Never did say how they caused it......


My guess? The Feds have been hiring "diversity" over "merit" for decades. Sorta like the critical mass theory in nuclear - you get enough idiots banging around and something bad is going to happen.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Rockmart-u hit the nail on the head.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Would you expect anything different from obumas bunch of idiots ? epa is as worthless as the department of energy . Oh hell the usda too.............................My understanding was they were drilling core samples ? and wa la it sprang a leak . Then the TYPICAL government lies began to flow , lied about how much was going into the river.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Been all over the news up here. EPA sub-contractor accidentally drilled too deep in abandoned mine's pond. Wasn't epa itself. Spilled contents into a river that was mostly dead from run off from other mines. Dam's don't last forever, someones got to touch it eventually to either maintain the dam or treat the water and release it. Sometimes folks screw up, darned shame. Based on the number of sites around there it won't be the last pond to let go in the next 100 years.

EDIT reading a bit more, what a mess that mine site was, the last company had half assed tried to stop the leachate before going bankrupt and abandoning water treatment, killing the river back then before the state and epa stepped it. They've just inherited a messy problem.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Been all over the news up here. EPA sub-contractor accidentally drilled too deep in abandoned mine's pond. Wasn't epa itself. Spilled contents into a river that was mostly dead from run off from other mines. Dam's don't last forever, someones got to touch it eventually to either maintain the dam or treat the water and release it. Sometimes folks screw up, darned shame. Based on the number of sites around there it won't be the last pond to let go in the next 100 years.
> 
> EDIT reading a bit more, what a mess that mine site was, the last company had half assed tried to stop the leachate before going bankrupt and abandoning water treatment, killing the river back then before the state and epa stepped it. They've just inherited a messy problem.


I see you're making excuses for Obamas fraudulent EPA government oversight already.

The libs and all their metrosexual msnbc hosts rode BP for years about the oil spill and you don't really hear much in the news about this government caused disaster. If it wasn't for the republican Hispanic woman governor keeping a spotlight on it, it wouldn't have made the back page of the po dunkville daily news. 
When BP released the oil, did they blame the workers on the platform? No, they took responsibility.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike120 said:


> I wonder who they are going to fine?


Fine???? 
They'll probably put the government workers responsible on TV and portray them as heroes. They'll say "although 3 million gallons were spilled, they actually prevented 10 million from spilling".

EPA will Probably promote them and of course more pay. Afterall, the taxpayers happily pay for this fine quality service!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> Wasn't epa itself.


We know damned well it wasn't the EPA itself as they are a bunch of candy assed pencil pushers that never get out of buildings. BUT, EPA is fully responsible for any incompetence that they put upon this country from their hires. I hope your not going to be a expert on this disaster from your window with your liberal sources.

Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/11/epa-we-misjudged-pressure-gold-mine-before-spill/31447379/

Regards, Mike


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Heard on news report government official say the river has returned to pre event condition.... Really? What about the heavy metals lying on the bottom? Glass of Arsenic anyone? Abolish the EPA AND IRS that would go a long way to cleaning up America!


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

The epa folks that are in the hot seat aren't worried. Their resumes have already been put out and will be interviewed by the IRS soon , for open positions from the Lois Lerner scandal. Likely she will be in line for position of marshaling the wood stove ban placed on us sorry polluting bastards here in the midwest that are just trying not become petrified when it goes to -30 F. ...... Beam me up Scotty , no intelligent life here.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

See they admitted they made a mistake, BP was crucified for their "mistake"


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Fine????
> They'll probably put the government workers responsible on TV and portray them as heroes. They'll say "although 3 million gallons were spilled, they actually prevented 10 million from spilling".
> EPA will Probably promote them and of course more pay. Afterall, the taxpayers happily pay for this fine quality service!


Not only did they prevent 10 million gallons from spilling, they also provided 5k "shovel ready" jobs......


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

I believe maybe half what I read in the paper and 1/4 of what I hear on the radio. The media is so biased, it's getting hard to read berween the lines.....

Good example is the Hillary Clinton campaign (or lack of). She should be incarcerated, not running for President, but she is still out there running.... and the media referrs to her as the 'front runner'..... amazing.

What really occured in the mine pertaining to the spill in the river is really conjecture, amplified by the media, the very media thats about as trusting as Pinocchio.

I'm sure the release of the mine pond was toxic but the actual details of it and probably the impact on the ecosystem will forever be buried under the sensationalism of the 'news'..... just say'in.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

They mentioned on the news last night that there is like 300 mines in that area, most with same kind of crap in them. Plus there's one mine that has been leaking out for, I had to do a rewind, I believe they said 2 or 3 decades into a stream. They showed a video of it and there was a good bit of crap coming out of it, not a small trickle.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Grateful11 said:


> They mentioned on the news last night that there is like 300 mines in that area, most with same kind of crap in them. Plus there's one mine that has been leaking out for, I had to do a rewind, I believe they said 2 or 3 decades into a stream. They showed a video of it and there was a good bit of crap coming out of it, not a small trickle.


That is called "ass covering".....doing whatever....saying whatever to deflect attention off the crisis at hand.

The only way we will ever know what really happened is to do a non-governmental investigation.

Regards, Mike


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I would love to see BP to turn the tables and conduct such a investigation...


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The river bed was already heavily polluted with heavy metals etc, it certainly didn't get better but it wasn't pristine.



Nitram said:


> Heard on news report government official say the river has returned to pre event condition.... Really? What about the heavy metals lying on the bottom? Glass of Arsenic anyone? Abolish the EPA AND IRS that would go a long way to cleaning up America!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Talking with two sisters who live in Alabama they are furious the mess that is still down there from BP isn't on the news anymore even though its still affecting them.

I didn't get the gist of what the issues are but they were talking about unemployment of fishermen.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If they were awarding contracts to incompetent contractors, then ya string them up and find out why they aren't picking good contractors.

If they had to award the contract to the low bidder because of pressure to keep costs down vs bidder experience, someone has to answer.

Re: responsibility, its impossible for the US government to be "fully responsible" for every single thing a sub-contractor does or doesn't do. Thats why they have contracts, insurance, inspectors etc to look after how jobs work. I know lawyers love to play that blame game but stuff goes wrong, thats why thats subs contract was probably 3" thick stack of paper covering who is responsible for what.

BP is a bad example to compare to, they actively were using a property they owned and were in "control" of.

I'm happy to armchair expert this just as much as the rest of you folks. I know a little bit about waste water treatment although I let my installers licence lapse almost 10 years ago. My father worked on mine run off projects in Canada through the 60's and 70's for an engineering company doing sampling and fieldwork so I've got a basic understanding of what they do to. My best friend spent almost 5 years working on tailings ponds for the oilsands in Alberta doing sampling, oil-spill control, building berms, installing pipes etc so I've familiar with the side of building tailings ponds too and tracking down leakage etc.



Vol said:


> We know damned well it wasn't the EPA itself as they are a bunch of candy assed pencil pushers that never get out of buildings. BUT, EPA is fully responsible for any incompetence that they put upon this country from their hires. I hope your not going to be a expert on this disaster from your window with your liberal sources.
> 
> Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I just went and read a bit more.

To those of you criticizing the estimate being revised from 1 to 3 million gallons, do you have any idea how difficult it is to estimate the volume of an area that is flooded that you don't have a detailed 3D survey of and the leak is not going though a flow meter? I'm amazed they guessed it as close as they did.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> BP is a bad example to compare to, they actively were using a property they owned and were in "control" of.


Where in my post that you are quoting did I mention BP?



slowzuki said:


> I know a little bit about waste water treatment although I let my installers licence lapse almost 10 years ago.


Oh, I see, that means that you and every other septic tank installer in Eastern Canada are experts on Southwestern US mining disasters. How unfortunate for us that you let your license expire.



slowzuki said:


> My best friend spent almost 5 years working on tailings ponds for the oilsands in Alberta


Well there you go.....that would have to make one a expert on mining disasters having a best friend that worked in the oil patch. You know you really do have a lot in common with obama....he was a expert in community planning and you are a expert on everything else.

I cannot help but harken back to a quote that YOU attributed to your wife.....when you said that SHE said that you have a big mouth and don't know when to shut up.....

I said it then and I will say it again.....who on this earth would know you better?

Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

BP was for the other posters comment, not for your post.

Had a large post written out responding to the points below and why I feel comfortable posting on this topic but deleted it because, well, you don't care about any of it as you have stated multiple times, and I've realized this thread isn't actually about the spill, its just an anti-obama fest that I've stumbled into.

So does anyone care to actually discuss the spill and what happened or is everyone happy with epa and obama bashing?

If you want to talk spill:

It looks like they were really really hoping they could build enough head in the mine with their plug to force the incoming water to stop taking an easy path through the mine contaminates. If you can stop water from running through the old mine in theory the contamination could be reduced, not stopped though.

It sounds like their plug worked to increase the head so much it blew out at some other location. This sounds a lot like either the flow rates were higher than they estimated, or the height of the water they were backing up was taller than predicted, or they didn't have a good understanding of the interconnections of the mine. I wonder if they had sized a drain on their plug that bled a controlled amount that they could adjust or the final work before blowout was being progressed in response to too much pressure building up.

From reading more today trying to get past the terrible reporting, it sure looks like an EPA engineer designing the solution to the leakage may have made a pretty large mistake. I'm not sure if they would have subbed out the design of the fix to a consultant too, thats a favourite thing to do by government agencies.

I'll even step back from my earlier post, the more information coming out the more it looks like the contractor may not be at fault, unless they did the design work too.

Back to leaning back in my armchair.



Vol said:


> Where in my post that you are quoting did I mention BP?
> 
> Oh, I see, that means that you and every other septic tank installer in Eastern Canada are experts on Southwestern US mining disasters. How unfortunate for us that you let your license expire.
> 
> ...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> So does anyone care to actually discuss the spill and what happened or is everyone happy with epa and obama bashing?


Actually obama was only mentioned twice.....and I don't think there are over 2 people on this entire site that would care to discuss anything that includes you.

Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> BP was for the other posters comment, not for your post.
> 
> Had a large post written out responding to the points below and why I feel comfortable posting on this topic but deleted it because, well, you don't care about any of it as you have stated multiple times, and I've realized this thread isn't actually about the spill, its just an anti-obama fest that I've stumbled into.
> 
> So does anyone care to actually discuss the spill and what happened or is everyone happy with epa and obama bashing.


Maybe you've missed the last 6-7 years of Obama bashing the previous administration? 
But knowing the way you think,,,,,you probably didn't.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Not on the subject directly, but indirectly, we have an ongoing issue here in Michigan that could have dire consequences at some point in the future. Enbridge Petroleum (a Canadian Company btw), has twin pipelines running under the Straits of Mackinaw, from the lower Upper Peninsula to the Upper Peninsula and on toward Sarnia, Ontario.

Here's the issue. The pipelines are over 60 years old and daily, Enbridge pumps millions of gallons of crude through them. Enbridge is very secretive about the condition of the pipelines and won't disclose any tests or observations concerning them. Enbridge was the company that had a pipeline rupture and spill millions of gallons of crude into the Kalamazoo River, the impact of that is still ongoing. The operators at the time of the spill, instead of shutting off the flow, increased it because they thought there was a blockage. Blockage hell, it was gushing in the river....

When, not if the pipes under the Straits rupture, the impact to the Great Lakes (the largest bodies of fresh water in the United States) could be astronomical in terms of not only pollution but killing fish and wildlife.

Enbridge treats us (United States and Michigan) like what the hell. Everything is hunky-dory. It's not. If everything is above board, then why are they so secretive about the condition of a 60 year old pipeline?

Of course everything is crooked when it comes to big oil anyway.

Following the money trail usually compromises the people while a big corporation makes money...

Had to get that off my chest. been bothering me for a while now.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

My apologies, it appeared to be implied before the actual name came up. To the latter point, I guess its my good luck it only takes 2 people to have discussion.

Ken



Vol said:


> Actually obama was only mentioned twice.....and I don't think there are over 2 people on this entire site that would care to discuss anything that includes you.
> 
> Mike


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

The contractor was Environmental Restoration LLC based in MO. Their workers were being supervised by EPA. They were using heavy equipment in the area and inadvertently breached a loose debris dam which was holding back the water. According to what I've read.

Accidents happen. I think the EPA is the Gestapo of this country but it's hard for me to throw rocks at them over this. Now if they try to duck the cleanup, that's a different story. Those in charge of this ought to write a check to help with the cleanup. Those EPA chiefs can sure hand out those $50,000 per day fines. Now that the table has turned? They have nothing to fear. That direct deposit paycheck will continue every two weeks. And in 6 months they'll be promoted or, yea, transfer to the IRS.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

If they were indeed "supervising" the job the it's easy for me to throw rocks at them......wonder who would wind up paying the fines if they implemented them against themselves....lol, wait, that may become a new money making tactic, instead of a new "tax", just fine yourself.......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> If they were indeed "supervising" the job the it's easy for me to throw rocks at them......wonder who would wind up paying the fines if they implemented them against themselves....lol, wait, that may become a new money making tactic, instead of a new "tax", just fine yourself.......


Can just see the apology ads on TV now:

"hi I'm Bill, an EPA supervisor that released 5 million gallons of toxic water into a river, and I'd like to apologize for that. I'd also like to thank president Obama for the promotion to Lois Lerners position at the IRS"


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

And here yah go&#8230;.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/epa-trying-to-cheat-navajos-on-toxic-river-spill-now


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> And here yah go&#8230;.
> 
> http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/epa-trying-to-cheat-navajos-on-toxic-river-spill-now


There. Right there! That's our government at its underhanded & despicable finest!!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> And here yah go&#8230;.
> 
> http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/epa-trying-to-cheat-navajos-on-toxic-river-spill-now


Bonfire....are you sure you don't want to re-think those rocks my friend?

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

We can all go up where I grew up. Plenty of rocks. I'll bet if I talk to a neighbor up there and told him we were coming he would plow up a field and expose as many rocks as we want. Perfect size for throwing. Bet he would even buy us beer and feed us.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Seems kind of a stretch, on the other hand though&#8230;.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/heres-why-some-think-the-epa-intentionally-poisoned-the-animas-river


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I read about the retired geologists prediction on another site several days ago. Basically stating that the EPA was going to invoke the Superfund in that part of our country one way or another.

I will see if I can find the site again. Nothing seems like a stretch anymore....including invoking Marshall law early next fall.

Regards, Mike


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

.....Nothing seems like a stretch anymore....including invoking Marshall law early next fall.

Thats a chilling thought Mike but alas, probably not too far from what will occur considering the way the Dem's current annointed one is doing with the populus.

The President can do just that and suspend the elections and remain President indefinitely...

Of course our elected officials in Washington have no balls ar all or they would have started impeachment proceedings against Obama, long ago.

Washington is all about postulation with no tangible results (except reelection).

As an aside, the pictures of the Anamis River remind me of butterscotch pudding...which I know it isn't. What a mess.

Actually, the whole political system and government in general is a mess.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Vol said:


> Bonfire....are you sure you don't want to re-think those rocks my friend?
> 
> Regards, Mike


I have to manage and maintain the integrity of two manure lagoons. If there were an accident and one of the walls were breached, I would have a similar situation here. It would be a nightmare. In that case, I would be on the receiving end of the finger pointing, thrown rocks and fines. I wouldn't be able to pay off the politicians and regulators to make the problem go away. I get inspected annually to make sure everything is in compliance.

As the saying goes, what goes round, comes round. I don't want it to come round to me. I'll keep my rocks in my pocket to throw at the freedom hating politicians.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Bonfire said:


> I have to manage and maintain the integrity of two manure lagoons. If there were an accident and one of the walls were breached, I would have a similar situation here.


Ahhhh....well that explains that...

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

ARD Farm said:


> .....Nothing seems like a stretch anymore....including invoking Marshall law early next fall.
> 
> Thats a chilling thought Mike but alas, probably not too far from what will occur considering the way the Dem's current annointed one is doing with the populus.
> 
> ...


I don't know, even the Dems are starting to distance themselves a little from the golfer in chief because of the horrible Iran deal.

I don't think they'd be foolish enough to try, however I also didn't think it was going to rain last night either, hay got wet out of that with 6/10ths.


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