# Best big baler for silage/haylage?



## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

Our NH round balers are flat worn out! It is time to change our silage program for our dairy. Through much research I have narrowed it down to Massey or Krone. I'm a JD guy, but they don't have enough time in the field, yet. We will be doing the 3x4 size.

We are looking at the XD and HDP models mainly, not because we are trying get trucks loaded up, but because they are built heavier. Which one will eat silage/haylage better with less plugs? Is the cutter a must? We have been concerned about maintainance, extra weight, higher HP requirements, and rocks with the cutter. I have a neighbor over the hill that said their experience with a cutter was a "disaster" because of rocks, but they have lava rock. I have smaller sized field stone. No lava rock. I know we end up with rocks in the bales, judging from the rocks that end up in the mangers.

I know the years that Massey increased capacities (2010 and 2012 with the XD's). What about Krone? It seems they increased in 2010. Any other year since?

Dealer support is about the same for both. If I had to choose, I'd lean just barely in the Massey direction, but about equal.

Thanks everybody!

Shane


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

The MF and Krone will eat the silage/hay just about the same capacity. The issue comes when you do plug the thing and you will. The krone you can idle down the baler and most times it will suck it up and you are good to go. The MF just has shear bolts and slip clutches so if you plug it up then you are on your hands and knees digging it out.

We personally don't like cutter balers. They are HP robbing maintenance nightmares in certain conditions. The blades will need to be serviced daily to maintain a good cut and the duller they get the harder they pull.

Krone increased capacity with the high speed balers that they came out with a few years ago. Basically they made the plunger faster so that you can eat more hay. the MF baler changed numbers but, they really didn't change much to the balers themselves.

One final hint no matter which way you go do not try and run that 600 crap twine through either baler it is to thick and wont knot very well and you will pull your hair out.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

RCF, thanks for the reply. That's some very helpful information. I figured there wouldn't be many chime in considering I don't think there are many that do silage/haylage.

Shane


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm sure you know, but just in case remember that a large square takes a larger tractor then your round balers.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

Ha! Yes, much larger. We had 140 to 150 horse tractors on the round balers. We have a Hesston 4910 4X4 that we've had a 150 horse JD 4450 on that did fine but was a little small. We put our JD 8410 on it recently. It has 280 horse and what a difference. That one should be sufficient for a higher density 3X4.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shane_WY said:


> Ha! Yes, much larger. We had 140 to 150 horse tractors on the round balers. We have a Hesston 4910 4X4 that we've had a 150 horse JD 4450 on that did fine but was a little small. We put our JD 8410 on it recently. It has 280 horse and what a difference. That one should be sufficient for a higher density 3X4.


Yes I'm sure the 8410 would be fine. From what I see on haytalk you were running a bit larger tractors on your round balers then most guys do. I don't know much about round balers. I just thought I would remind you as many times guys on there think about going to big squares from small or rounds, but forget about the tractor size differences.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks, Teslan. We have a tendency to overkill things. That way things run better/cooler/longer. That is why we are looking at high density balers. We probably will never push them that hard as we don't need to load trucks, but they are built heavier ie. overkill for us.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

I have zero experience with haylage, but the word on the street is the Krones are somewhat better for it, mostly because of the throttle-down/plug-clearing function.

I'm gonna go with the standard "whatever dealer has better support" response. If I break something on my Hesston, my dealer will be there within an hour. If I had a Krone, I'd be on the phone trying to describe it and parts would be 5 days out.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

I'm going to come out and say you don't need a XD/HDP baler for silage. Yes, they are built heavier, but typically in silage you won't be running the baler at it's limits; even a standard baler. Silage tends to pack easily and hold its shape; IE it doesn't spring back very much. It doesn't require near as much plunger load and restriction (chamber pressure) as dry hay does; much less stress on the chamber of the baler. In my opinion the two worst things to bale are wheat straw and stover. Wheat straw requires a lot of restriction on the chamber doors due to how springy and slick it is and this puts a lot of stress on the rear half of the baler. Stover just wears everything out.

Concerning Masseys, the trick to them for silage is to choke down the stuffer chute. From the factory they're set near wide-open which is great for dry hay capacity, but a little too much material for the stuffer to reliably push through the chute and up into the chamber. You'll get better stuffer reliability and better top-fill on the bale if you choke the entrance of the stuffer chute down about as tight as it'll go and open the top up 1-2" wider (start at 2" and choke down if the bales frown). You'll definitely need to re-adjust the stuffer trip door after this is done, start loose and work your way up.

The packer will do a better job of filling the chute and the stuffer will be less prone to breaking shear bolts and plugging.


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

As Maxzilliian stated above you will need to change the stuffer chute or flake size on either baler to get the capacity and reliability you want out of either baler. Also and this might not matter but with a Krone on tandem axle you can still get to the bottom needles farily easily while on the MF if you are a decent sized guy you will have trouble and will want a single axle baler.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

RCF said:


> As Maxzilliian stated above you will need to change the stuffer chute or flake size on either baler to get the capacity and reliability you want out of either baler. Also and this might not matter but with a Krone on tandem axle you can still get to the bottom needles farily easily while on the MF if you are a decent sized guy you will have trouble and will want a single axle baler.


I saw a tandem MF at the Colorado Farm Show (most sold here are single axle). I'm not that big of a guy and I sure wouldn't want to get over the 2nd axle to get to the lower needles. I don't think anyone could be much over 200 lbs and get in there.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Depends on your waist, I'm about 40" (but 240 and >6') and I can slide under the tandem axles on a 3x4 and 4x4. I'm not sure about the 3x3 tandems as they have smaller tires. I've never tried going over the axles; don't think I ever will.

There is always the floater tires which would gain another inch or two under the axle.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

These are good points, guys. Thanks!

Good point on packing silage easily. We would also be using it to bale dry alfalfa, grass, and barley straw. Grass is the worst, with barley straw a close second as they don't pack.

Good info on adjusting the stuffer. Is it easy to do on either machine. We would be going back and forth on a near daily basis.

I'm a skinny guy, but it looks like the needles are way easier to get to on the Krone.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

Question on Krone years: I've heard that the early Krones were "quirky", at best. When did this go away? It seems like a guy is safe from 2012 on. It also seems like there were changes in 2010? Or are the 2010's the same as the 2012's? I haven't really been looking at anything older than 2010.

Shane


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shane_WY said:


> These are good points, guys. Thanks!
> 
> Good point on packing silage easily. We would also be using it to bale dry alfalfa, grass, and barley straw. Grass is the worst, with barley straw a close second as they don't pack.
> 
> ...


I haven't adjusted the stuffer chute on my MF baler, but I've looked into it after one customer said my grass bales were to dense on the bottom. It seems rather easy. Just adjusting a few bolts. But you do have to get out your tool box. I don't think I would want to do it every day. I ended up not adjusting mine because the guy was the only customer out of many that said anything about grass bales being to heavy on the bottom. Plus since I don't feed hay myself how am I going to check if I made any difference.


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

Shane_WY said:


> Question on Krone years: I've heard that the early Krones were "quirky", at best. When did this go away? It seems like a guy is safe from 2012 on. It also seems like there were changes in 2010? Or are the 2010's the same as the 2012's? I haven't really been looking at anything older than 2010.
> 
> Shane


Usually when people are talking about the Krone early series they are talking about the BP 88 or 89 something like that. I would stay away from them Krone has a lot better baler out in the BP 1290 and so on. As far as when they changed numbers that was around 2008. The next major update after that was to the highspeed baler.

Adjusting flake size on the Krone is fairly simple its just one spring on the passenger side that a person can loosen or tighten. Sometimes a person can find that happy medium where they don't have to change it often but, it is no big deal to change.

Also if you are looking at used Krones one thing important to check is the cam bearing on the stuffer. Just spin the flywheel around and look at each one. If they got some wear I would go ahead and change them since it is easier to do now than when you got hay that needs baling.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Shane_WY said:


> These are good points, guys. Thanks!
> 
> Good point on packing silage easily. We would also be using it to bale dry alfalfa, grass, and barley straw. Grass is the worst, with barley straw a close second as they don't pack.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'd say you're not out of the ball park shopping for an XD then!

That said, I wouldn't remotely consider adjusting the stuffer chute on a daily basis. It doesn't look terrible, but typically requires some prying to get the front of the stuffer chute choked down on the Masseys. Typically a 15-30 minute job to adjust it for the first time.

If you're switching between crops that much, it may benefit just to choke it down an inch or so; you'll help it out with silage without too big a penalty on tons per hour in dry hay. That said, if you're aiming for the low to mid 40 flakes per bale; you'll likely never notice a difference in capacity with the chute choked down. It's not until you start aiming for the low 30s that it really needs to be wide open.

Edit: if you do end up shopping Massey, you may want to find a 2270XD as they have a longer bale chamber. The longer chamber helps the baler increase restriction in dry materials without the need for restrictors; something you won't be able to keep in the chamber if you plan to do silage.

It all largely depends on local conditions though. I'd ask around dealers and other customers to get a feel for if anyone uses restrictors in your area. If not, the 2170XD wouldn't be a bad choice. I think I've only seen guys legitimately use restrictors when moisture falls below 10-12%.


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## Shane_WY (Jun 20, 2011)

For some reason I thought there was a change between 2011 and 2012 on the Krones. Maybe not.

On the 4910 that we have, I usually shoot for 33 flakes/bale. I have no idea where we'd be on a HD 3x4, though.

I found out this morning that our closest Massey dealer (90 miles) will be losing their Massey dealership. That would put the closest one that we actually get to at about 135 miles away in Logan, UT. The Krone dealer is 90 miles away still, but I'm not sure that they stock much as they are a Case IH dealership.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Doesn't sound like a very good situation either way... Have you checked into whether there are any Challenger dealers nearby?

Flake counts are going to depend on your goals and load; I've seen a number of guys figure out that the low to mid 40s usually gets the best bale weight on the scale of up to 5% more. The load increase on it's own is going to be good for increasing the number of flakes per bale. For example, if you increase bale weight by 10% without changing tons per hour, your flake count will increase 10% as well as it's the same volume of material per flake, but being compressed thinner.

The 2170/2270 is also going to have a pretty healthy increase in strokes per minute (from 25 to 47) over your 4910 so despite the smaller bale size, you'd see a pretty hefty bump in capacity and could likely still make 40+ flakes per bale while still baling at a faster rate than you have before.


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