# Acid



## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

Anyone here using proprionic acid? I ordered a system from Harvestec for my new baler. Over 6 grand if I install it myself. I would really like to hear from someone with experience specifically what they do to get good results. I have heard from a few guys who said they wouldn't bale without it, but didn't share any details beyond that. I don't intend to try to bale wet hay in the 20s, I just want some protection when the dew moves in too fast at night or I drive thru a low spot and the moisture creeps up a few points. One or two bad bales can sometimes ruin a pile. I run a 3x4.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I run a harvest tech also , Ive got the automatic one with the touch screen but as far as acid ill go look at the barrel and see what it is . Is yours diffrent than mine, sounds like yours might be the updated version ive read about. THOMAS


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## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

IA,

We run the same system on a 3x3x8. I set it to the recommendations on the barrel also. It has been very effective for us. Even though you don't think you will use it for 20-30% hay, I will bet you use it for more of that than you think. We rarely bale anything under 18% anymore if you are trying to maintain quality in your hay.


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## hayfarmer (Nov 9, 2008)

I am considering using the preservative on bermuda grass hay. I bale with a conventional small square baler. How long will the preservative last while the hay is stored in the barn. I am hoping this will keep my bottom bales from molding (placed on a wooden floor with stackliner). Will the bales become loose as the moisture leaves the bale? Have you had any problems with the customers accepting the odor of the preservative.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

This is my experience with preservative, Ive baled hay as high as 30% , its the same hay im feeding right now , no visible mold but the bales weigh very heavy( small square) . I have had no problems with the smell , the smell is not near as strong now as it was when i baled and ive had no complaints. If it was not for the preserv. there is no dought this hay would be worthless. THOMAS


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

There is an alternative to propionic acid called SiloGuard. It has no odor, is non-corrosive and is safe to apply. You won't have to deal with the odor of acid when you're baling and the product turns into a gas to migrate through the bales.

It's about 1/2 the cost of acid on 20% and over hay.

If you need more information, email [email protected]


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

hayfarmer said:


> I am considering using the preservative on bermuda grass hay. I bale with a conventional small square baler. How long will the preservative last while the hay is stored in the barn. I am hoping this will keep my bottom bales from molding (placed on a wooden floor with stackliner). Will the bales become loose as the moisture leaves the bale? Have you had any problems with the customers accepting the odor of the preservative.


The odor when using propionic acid can be an issue, depending on the level used.

Another option is to use SiloGuard. There is no odor, and it does not cause skin irritation if you get it on you. It also is non-corrosive, so it won't tear up your baler.

Once the hay stabilizes, you shouldn't have any problems with mold if you treat it. Bales will not become significantly loose.


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## alfalfaking (Jun 19, 2008)

Proprionic acid works it is just a pain to work with and horses kind of turn up there nose at hay made with it. Some states require chemical license to use.
I have been working with silo gaurd and don;t have all the issues with green hay. Silo gaurd is coming with new system for balers that works on microwave technology and is more accurate on annalysing moisture. It is expensive but can be moved from baler to baler, it also marks bales in field with high moisture
levels.
[email protected]
alfalfaking


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## Don ALLAN (Jun 4, 2008)

TBrown said:


> IA,
> 
> We run the same system on a 3x3x8. I set it to the recommendations on the barrel also. It has been very effective for us. Even though you don't think you will use it for 20-30% hay, I will bet you use it for more of that than you think. We rarely bale anything under 18% anymore if you are trying to maintain quality in your hay.


We run the same system on a 5 x 6 round baler. I set it to the recommendations on the barrel also. It has been very effective for us. We try to avoid going over 20% but when it happens to spike in a low area, along trees or at the end of the day you sure are glad you have it there. Right now we are getting close to $100 per bale for some of those bales. That pays well for the preservative applied. We start baling at 20% and go until it is down to 12% if it has alfalfa in it. The weight gained offsets the cost of the acid. The protein gained by saving leaves also pays for the preservative.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

There are a number of points.

First it is a well proven system.

Second it is not a miracle worker and it can be costly.

Remember the hay will be damp when baled and that moisture has to go somewhere.

With the acid/buffered acid it is the fumes that retard the mold while with the biological additives the material is supposed to occupy all the sites mold can form and prevent any mold from starting to grow. With less than perfect coverage of the biological material mold will form. As long as the hay stinks of acid the mold will be discouraged.

Where the hay is fully cured and baled with a bit too much humidity this system works like a charm. In this case the measured moisture is mostly in the leaves.
Stem moisture is difficult to accurately measure, on the go. For some growers their humidity never is as high as 50 percent so stem moisture is the only source of humidity, inside the windrow.

I would suggest not to use a biological product if baling hay at more than 22%. This is with small squares I must add. With Acid it is both difficult and prohibitively expensive to use acid on hay that is higher than 30%.

Even using buffered acid I have had hay tobacco on me. 
As I flirted with 30% moisture after stacking the bottom bales tended to flatten out, as the moisture was dissipated.

Hay baled at 20% or higher does not slide well on my bale wagon. Lots of getting out and giving bales a shove.

I am not fond of stacking freshly baled hay on concrete. Those bottom bales will sweat and the moisture is trapped against the cement. In this situation those bottom bales will mold, irregardlessly.


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## Don ALLAN (Jun 4, 2008)

Regarding stem moisture, we find that the in chamber moisture monitoring system works quite well as it measures electrical conductivity across the five feet of material between the sensors. A reading is taken every three seconds and proves to be much more accurate than stopping and probing bales with a moisture tester.


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## ISFIowa (Feb 6, 2009)

I noticed the statement has been made that acid/buffered acid fumes retard mold growth. What happens to mold growth after the fumes are dissipated?

I worked for a company that manufactured buffered acid products for several years. We had nothing in our information base that said "fumes" controlled the mold. Acid is a contact killer. Where the acid does not make contact with mold spores they will continue to grow.

All plants are harvested with mold spores on them, some fields are worse than others. In my market, I personally take samples of hay at harvest (before treatment) and send them to Dairyland Labs to determine the mold base in each field. All fields I have tested have some level of mold spores. Many of the fields are loaded with mold. Therefore, treatment is necessary in most every case.

At higher moisture levels, the mold has an easier time growing (just think of a moist basement wall). If there is a heavy mold load coming out of the field, the higher moisture accelerates the growth. Mold needs three things to grow (sugars/starches, oxygen, and moisture). Mold growth doubles every 20 minutes (i.e. 20,000 cfu/gm becomes 40,000 cfu/gm becomes 80,000 cfu/gm, etc.) Because of this issue, all University researchers recommend increasing usage rates of acid as moisture levels increase.

Complete coverage with acid products is necessary to stop mold growth. That is why it is important to have a good applicator that reaches all parts of the hay being baled.


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## Don ALLAN (Jun 4, 2008)

Very good reply. I agree with what you have to say. I have tried to get by with shutting off the applicator for the outside 2" of the formation of a round bale and lo and behold it molded. I thought that the proximity to the outside would allow it to cure out once baled but not so.


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## deerrunhaycp (Oct 17, 2008)

Anyone using a Paul B applicator. www.cropcareequipment.com. I was wondering where to place the nozzels, there manual gives some basic ideas, but it mainly seems to be a trial and error sort of deal. Thank's


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## ISF (Jun 4, 2008)

If you can tell me what type of baler you have, I may be able to help you out. We do a lot of application work to make sure products being applied get to where they need to go.

PM me if I can help.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Sorry to dig up an old post.

In general, I have to say that the systems work really well and we have had very very few mould issues. I can think of 2 instances where we've had mouldy hay. Both cases it was a "clump" of wet mouldy hay in an otherwise beautiful bale. We have however had many bales that have turned "tobbacco" or caramelized on the inside.

We use 2 Harvestec propionic acid systems and one Hay Boss system. There are a few things that have always bothered me.

1. The moisture is read at the bale chamber but the product is applied at the pickup. This means there is a 1-2 flake delay in the application of product. If I hit a wet spot of 25 - 30% hay, it's conceivable that the acid will be applied to dry hay ~ 2 flakes or 5 seconds late.

2. The computer applies the programmed amount of acid based on the moisture readings, and the display in the cab tells me what is supposed to be applied and what is actually being applied. The acid doesn't seen to get applied the way it's supposed to. Either too much or too little.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

rank,
That's why we went with the cheaper system, I think they call it the elctronic. Seemed like a waste to spend a few thousand $$ more. As long as we have guys in the seat that have their eyes open, and their brains turned on, they ought to be able to increase and decrese the amount of acid - All the wet spots we've encountered have either been some sort of valley in the field, or under trees. I think it's very predicable. I know that when we first got the systems I was all about calibrating and seeing how fast we made bales, how much they weighed, etc, etc..... But now it's sorta become a general knowledge. I know it's going to take x number of pounds on the pressure gauge for this field, or this type of hay.

I know that we've seen a significant decrease in the amount of bad hay that we've stored. The amount of moldy grass hay is now near zero, and I know that we baled some stuff that would have gone bad before. And somebody mentioned that proprionic acid is corrosive - I guess it is, but buffered proprionic acid is NOT. It does seem to weaken the paint in the bale chamber on new balers, but who cares about that?

Rodney


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree Rodney. We hacked a manual toggle switch hacked into one of our balers and I think I need one on my baler too. Allows us to override the computer.


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