# Rockwell vs dexter 12k trailer axles.



## Nate926

Found a trailer manufactor by the name of bad boy trailers out of arkansas that seem to be very well priced. I want 12k axles instead of 10k axles. They offer rockwell 12k axles and dexter. Rockwells are a $1000 and dexter are $1800 over the 10k axles. Whats everybodys thoughts on Rockwell?


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## JD3430

Rockwell axles are (I hope they still are) made in PA, USA. I know they had a plant here.

They make excellent axles.

Dexter still pretty good, but have begun outsourcing parts to China. Living on a name more than they used to live on a quality name.

Al-ko are my least favorite with a lot of offshore content.

I'd go with Rockwells first if I had my choice. Very surprised they're cheaper. I think the 12k axles come with 5" brake width


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## Nate926

Ok thank you 3430 for the info, I will make sure there USA made before I pull the trigger. The 32ft dual tandom with 12k axle trailor with three ramps are $8600.After doing alot of research I dont think I can beat the price. Also they are about 500-800lbs lighter so should be able to haul 300 bales and be right under legal weight. Please check them out and let me know what you think!


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## JD3430

Nate926 said:


> Ok thank you 3430 for the info, I will make sure there USA made before I pull the trigger. The 32ft dual tandom axle trailors with three ramps are $8600.After doing alot of research I dont think I can beat the price. Also they are about 500-800lbs lighter so should be able to haul 300 bales and be right under legal weight. Please check them out and let me know what you think!


Thats a fantastic price!

Do they offer spring loaded monster ramps?

Check out their paint job, too. You can build a great trailer, but with a crap paint job, it'll look bad real fast.


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## somedevildawg

Always had good luck with Dexter axles.....a bit tricky when ordering parts unless you have a good source, lucky for me about 30 min up the interstate is a huge distributor, Big Tex


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## Nate926

3430 at that price I doubt it. The ramps are spring loaded though. I will ask if they can build the mega ramps tomorrow


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## gearhartfarms82

Rockwell and dexter are basically the same. 
If u are running electro hydraulic systems then they are totally different. Dexter all the way


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## JD3430

I have 10K Dexter axles on my Big Tex and even brand new, the brakes are not that great when my trailer is fully loaded.

Theyre not bad, I'd say adequate would be my best description. 12K axles should have bigger brakes.

Theres a small company up my way making handbuilt trailers called Pequea. On their bigger trailers I think they use the Rockwell axles. No offshore junk in them.

http://www.rockwellamerican.com/


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## gearhartfarms82

If there electric brakes they never will work great. Some reason they havent fig out how to use stronger magnets


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## Nate926

Planning on getting electric over hydraulic disc brakes


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## JD3430

Nate926 said:


> Planning on getting electric over hydraulic disc brakes


Just remember that your 450 can only handle so much (legally).

My 550 is registered at 36,000 GCWR. Truck weighs 10,000lbs with secondary body, tools, fuel, etc. so my max trailer GCWR is 26,000lbs.

The actual GCWR of my trailer is 23,900. I have overloaded it sometimes. I've gone across the scale up in the 35,000+ range. Its like that with hay-there's no way to tell exactly what each bale weighs.

I cant imagine your 450 GCWR is rated at any more than 30,000lbs (might only be 26,000).

Truck probably weighs 8,000lbs. That means your trailer GCWR shouldn't be more than 22,000lbs.

Might be better off buying a trailer with 10K axles???

I dont like telling anyone what to do, but why buy a trailer that you cant fully load?


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## gearhartfarms82

Nate smart deal.


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## Nate926

My truck weights 8,900lbs loaded with fuel and two passionagers and personal belongings for trip. My GCWR is is 33,000 since I have a 4.88 rear end. 300 bales x 55lbs is 16,500lbs. Bad boy 32' dual tandem axles 12k axles is 7050lbs. Trailer GVWR is 24,000.

Trailer and load 7,050+ 16,500= 23,550
Truck, trailer, and load 8900+7050+16,500= 32450lbs

Bales usually average 50lbs but calculated 55lbs to be safe.


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## JD3430

I didnt think a 450 had a GCWR of 33,000lbs?

My 550 is 33,000lbs and it has an upgrade called a "high capacity tow package", too.

I looked up F-450 Superduty crewcab 4.88 gears. Max GCWR that was listed is 28,000lbs

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/08RVTTgdeSep08.pdf

I could be misunderstanding the truck you bought, too.


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## Nate926

Look on page 19 28,000 is for manual. My truck is automatic its 33,000lbs. Look at the column on the same page but the top one


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## JD3430

Yeah, but that's only an auto with high capacity tow package. See the footnote? You sure you have high cap tow package? 
I think it's option package 535.
I specifically looked for a 550 with it. Really tough to find, but I found one!


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## Nate926

Yes it has it I have attached the window sticker look on the right side under optional equipment


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## JD3430

Awesome! You had me worried for a while there.


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## Nate926

Thanks!


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## JD3430

Funny seeing a Dodge cummins guy switch to a Ford power stroke. From what you read on the diesel HP wars websites, you'd think it couldn't ever happen.
Welcome to Ford. Great chassis/axles/brakes, good transmission, adequate engine.


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## Nate926

I will have to admit I am loving the roomy interior, and unreal sturdiness of the truck! The jury is still out on my next truck. If this truck treats me well over the next couple years I will stay with ford if not I'll be going back to dodge. I wish so much that they would put a cummins in the 350-550.


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## JD3430

Nate926 said:


> I will have to admit I am loving the roomy interior, and unreal sturdiness of the truck! The jury is still out on my next truck. If this truck treats me well over the next couple years I will stay with ford if not I'll be going back to dodge. I wish so much that they would put a cummins in the 350-550.


Yeah the cabs are huge arent they? I always appreciate all the room if you're a bigger guy and have lots of gear. I just sold a GMC 3500 crewcab which I also loved, but the cab was much smaller.

The 6.4L diesel doesnt get much love. Expensive to fix. It always makes me nervous. I wouldn't advise rating Ford too much based on your truck. I hear the most recent generation with the 6.7L is even better.

All that said, I think It'll be quite a contest for me between Ford & Dodge on my next truck. Dodge's towing specs and manually controlled exhaust brake are almost too much to resist. Although I hear Ford will be the first to break through the 40,000lb GCWR ceiling next year and offer a 3" gooseneck ball in the bed along with a torqshift 8 speed transmission.

I figure the longer I hold out, the more refined the 6.7L will get.

Not too crazy about the low 300HP rating on the cab & chassis. At least our 6.4's are 350HP!! 

Well, anyways, welcome to the 6.4L club on HT. I'm club member #1 and you're #2. I bet me and you are the only ones on the whole HT website!!


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## Growing pains

About the time Ford gets the 6.7 figured out and refined they'll throw it away and start over. Seems to be their pattern.


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## luke strawwalker

JD3430 said:


> Funny seeing a Dodge cummins guy switch to a Ford power stroke. From what you read on the diesel HP wars websites, you'd think it couldn't ever happen.
> Welcome to Ford. Great chassis/axles/brakes, good transmission, *adequate engine*.


Yeah, IF it holds together... LOL

Nephews in Indiana both have Ford PowerSmokes... The older boy just traded for a '14 because his '05's drain plug came out with a wad of shavings on it when he changed the oil and he wanted to get rid of it before it turned loose... The younger one bought a '12 (IIRC) and just got it back from the shop... $10,000 bucks later with a new short block and another $4,000 in two new turbos, after they tried to rebuild one and it screamed like a banshee even after the rebuild... thankfully he bought the $2,500 extended warranty and he was only out a $200 copay IIRC... Course he got it back and didn't even get 30 miles from the shop to his MIL-to-be's and it just stopped in the road-- motor running, but no-go... tranny oil was fine, but no joy... he shut it off and they pushed it in the yard and then couldn't get it start... the starter would spin, but the motor wouldn't turn over...

Loaded it up on his BIL's gooseneck and hauled it back to the shop... they pulled the motor and found that the flex plate broke in half between the crank bolts and the ring gear/torque converter... just busted the center right out of it pretty as you please. Another $1000 got it back together, again, thankfully, under the warranty. Since then, so far, so good (all of a couple months anyway).

If that's "Ford Tough", I think I'd pass... LOL

Later! OL J R 

PS... BTW, NEITHER of these are the infamous 6.0's... they're the bigger engines (the ones that are SUPPOSED to be good!)


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## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> Yeah the cabs are huge arent they? I always appreciate all the room if you're a bigger guy and have lots of gear. I just sold a GMC 3500 crewcab which I also loved, but the cab was much smaller.
> The 6.4L diesel doesnt get much love. Expensive to fix. It always makes me nervous. I wouldn't advise rating Ford too much based on your truck. I hear the most recent generation with the 6.7L is even better.
> All that said, I think It'll be quite a contest for me between Ford & Dodge on my next truck. Dodge's towing specs and manually controlled exhaust brake are almost too much to resist. Although I hear Ford will be the first to break through the 40,000lb GCWR ceiling next year and offer a 3" gooseneck ball in the bed along with a torqshift 8 speed transmission.
> I figure the longer I hold out, the more refined the 6.7L will get.
> Not too crazy about the low 300HP rating on the cab & chassis. At least our 6.4's are 350HP!!
> 
> Well, anyways, welcome to the 6.4L club on HT. I'm club member #1 and you're #2. I bet me and you are the only ones on the whole HT website!!


Everyone else with one has it in the shop?

Sorry. Couldn't resist the low hanging fruit. Hope they keep doing well for you.


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## JD3430

luke strawwalker said:


> Yeah, IF it holds together... LOL
> 
> Nephews in Indiana both have Ford PowerSmokes... The older boy just traded for a '14 because his '05's drain plug came out with a wad of shavings on it when he changed the oil and he wanted to get rid of it before it turned loose... The younger one bought a '12 (IIRC) and just got it back from the shop... $10,000 bucks later with a new short block and another $4,000 in two new turbos, after they tried to rebuild one and it screamed like a banshee even after the rebuild... thankfully he bought the $2,500 extended warranty and he was only out a $200 copay IIRC... Course he got it back and didn't even get 30 miles from the shop to his MIL-to-be's and it just stopped in the road-- motor running, but no-go... tranny oil was fine, but no joy... he shut it off and they pushed it in the yard and then couldn't get it start... the starter would spin, but the motor wouldn't turn over...
> 
> Loaded it up on his BIL's gooseneck and hauled it back to the shop... they pulled the motor and found that the flex plate broke in half between the crank bolts and the ring gear/torque converter... just busted the center right out of it pretty as you please. Another $1000 got it back together, again, thankfully, under the warranty. Since then, so far, so good (all of a couple months anyway).
> 
> If that's "Ford Tough", I think I'd pass... LOL
> 
> Later! OL J R
> 
> PS... BTW, NEITHER of these are the infamous 6.0's... they're the bigger engines (the ones that are SUPPOSED to be good!)


Well, all I can do is speak for myself, not anybody else. I've owned a dozen diesel Ford trucks and never had a serious problem. They've all "held together" (knocking on wood) 
If you read the Internet diesel HP wars forums, you see a lot of children adding fuel boxes to diesel trucks, window the block, then go crying to the dealer for warranty replacement (after, of course, they remove the fuel box) 
Then they go on the truck forums and blame the manufacturer. Happens a dozen times a day across the country. LOL
I take my truck to the biggest Ford diesel shop in my county for repairs and the head diesel mechanic works on my truck. He said he sees maybe 2-3 blown 6.4L diesels in their shop per year out of the hundreds they service per year. He said out of the 2-3 blown engines, both usually had horrible service records (sludge for oil, old fuel filters, etc). 
My honest experience in driving Ford diesels since the 6.9L in the late 80's are much better than what I read on the 'net and like my old man used to say "I see better than I hear".

Flame on brother!!!!


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## Nate926

jD3430 that makes me feel a lot better! I'm just trying to decide if I should do the dpf delete. I'm not adding anymore horse power have no intentions of hyping it up. Look guys I have owned at least 7 or 8 dodge diesels and this makes my 3 ford diesel. They all have there problems. Over the years my number one problem both for and dodge has been electrical problems, and of course sensors. All I know is I'll pick a dodge or for over a Chevy any day. I don't like Chevys for two reason. The suspension feel like the took a set of used 200,000 mile shocks and stuck em on a new truck. 2nd the interior why pay that much and get a interior that came standard in a 1998 ford xl? Just to plain Jane plasticy for me.


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## JD3430

I have not done the DPF delete!

Too chicken ass to do it!

Bone stock. Everyone has advised me to do it. I was going to wait till DPF is full and needs replacing. I hate the DPF system, but knowing my luck, the day after I do the delete, emmissions inspections will be mandatory in my state.

exspecially after we just elected a libtard for a gubbernor.


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## Nate926

Yeah I'm kinda chicken to do it because the truck runs so good now. Gonna research it more though.

Tomorrow is gonna be its first run over the mountain to ashville NC hauling 300 bales. Excited and nervous to see what it does


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## luke strawwalker

JD3430 said:


> Well, all I can do is speak for myself, not anybody else. I've owned a dozen diesel Ford trucks and never had a serious problem. They've all "held together" (knocking on wood)
> If you read the Internet diesel HP wars forums, you see a lot of children adding fuel boxes to diesel trucks, window the block, then go crying to the dealer for warranty replacement (after, of course, they remove the fuel box)
> Then they go on the truck forums and blame the manufacturer. Happens a dozen times a day across the country. LOL
> I take my truck to the biggest Ford diesel shop in my county for repairs and the head diesel mechanic works on my truck. He said he sees maybe 2-3 blown 6.4L diesels in their shop per year out of the hundreds they service per year. He said out of the 2-3 blown engines, both usually had horrible service records (sludge for oil, old fuel filters, etc).
> My honest experience in driving Ford diesels since the 6.9L in the late 80's are much better than what I read on the 'net and like my old man used to say "I see better than I hear".
> 
> Flame on brother!!!!


Oh, I hear ya... and yeah, the older boy did put a gimmick box on the computer to "turn the screws up on it"... Didn't go crazy with it, but ya know stuff isn't built to go crazy like you used to be able to do... slimmer margins I guess you'd say... plus they've gotten to where they crank stuff up about as far as they "safely" can (without eating too many warranty claims) because most of the brands are in a constant p!ssing contest with the other brands, trying to attract buyers... "well, the XYZ has 340 horse, the ABC has 351 horse..." type nonsense...

Anyway, I can't afford to play in the diesel realm... I could actually USE a diesel but they've become such "cowboy Cadillac" status symbols, and the prices are SO high on new ones, that the older ones even are out of what I'd be willing to spend on something that might have been abused or had questionable care and service... "rode hard and put up wet" kinda thing gets MIGHTY expensive with diesels...

I can't complain too much, because my 02 F-150 has nearly 290,000 on the odometer... It's the 4.6 V-8 and been a decent truck... not as tough or trouble free as the 96 before it, but then the 96 had a few more problems than the 92 I had before that... They're just getting SO complicated that there's so many parts SOMETHING is gonna go wrong... Like the front suspension, for instance... I liked the old twin-I-beams just fine-- they worked great, and on the old 77's we never had to put a wrench to them. I think I replaced one radius arm bushing on the 92, and replaced both of them twice on the 96 (switched to poly and they hold up MUCH better-- Ford's rubber parts SUCK compared to the old days!) The 02 has the independent front suspension, and I had to replace the lower ball joints and the upper A-arms, front tie rod ends, etc. etc... just doesn't hold up like the old stuff... Lots of things like that...

The way they're engineering them is something else I don't like about the newer stuff... used to it was designed simple with plenty of margin to hold up better, even if it was worked a little harder than the "design specs" said... Dad twisted a set of motor mounts out of his 77 F-100 pulling 13,000 lb fertilizer nurse tanks and stuff, but other than that never had a problem with either the engine or tranny-- only think he put one clutch in that pickup the entire time he owned it, and of course me and my lil brother both kinda "put it through h3ll" when we finally were able to drive...

This 02, for instance... [email protected] thing's been throwing codes for the last two years... PO171... wouldn't pass emissions inspection last year, I was in Indiana for harvest, so I left it at the shop before I took off for them to get it fixed. They parked it behind the shop after tinkering with it for a couple days and left it til I got back; I jerked a knot in the shop owner's tail and he put a guy on it to get it going. PO171 comes up as "lean on bank 1" and so they sent it for a smoke test of the intake manifold and vacuum system. Smoke was "pouring out" under the intake, so they pulled it and replaced the gaskets (would have replaced the lower plastic half of the manifold but Ford don't make it anymore... trying to force everybody to junk them out and buy a new truck!) They put it back together and presto, no more leak, but still got a code. Did a full tune-up on it (I had just put new plugs in it about a year before (about 10,000 miles on them-- not much for new plugs) and replaced a few coils (I had done some of those as well) and it still wasn't running right, so they pulled the O2 sensors and it ran better, so the "cats are clogged" and needed replacing. Well, considering the mileage and hard towing I do with it I wouldn't be surprised... Anyway, they got it to pass inspection, but he told me the light would come back on, and it did. I did manage to haul hay last winter and early spring (haul the excess to store at Shiner in a pen) and hauled a 5500 lb load of scrap back, and it was running like sh!t... Limped it home and parked it til I could afford to buy the cats from RockAuto.com...

Finally got it together during the summer... put new O2 sensors in it as well. Light went off awhile, then came back. Put the factory air cleaner and induction system back on it when I replaced the MAF sensor, which was original, after reading those things eventually go wonky and read the wrong altitude and misread the amount of air going into the engine, which would show up as a "leak" and throw a code. (Figured that at 280,000 miles, any "horsepower" advantages of the aftermarket K&N cold air kit didn't amount to much, and if it might be causing some little niggling problem..... plus the oil can contaminate the MAF sensor wires and screw up the MAF sensors over time, so new sensor, might as well put the paper filter back in it...) Ran MUCH better but still threw a code on my way to Indiana. I didn't even bother plugging the thing in to read the code... just kept driving... figured it was a PO171 for the 50th time... When I got up there, I plugged it in and it was a PO173, "rich on bank 2"... okay, that's a new one! So I took it a mechanic buddy of ours up there and let him have at it.

On first blush, his computer tells him it needs new plugs... "okay" I said, "but they just replaced them last year, and the truck's got like 3,000 miles on it since then... it was parked most of the year last year..." So he changes them and sure enough, come to find out when he punched in the numbers on them, they had been recalled, and looked awful burned... probably didn't plate them right or used the wrong metal in the electrodes or something... Put new plugs in, test drove it, took it an hour south to an auction and back, and the mechanic reported it was good to go. I get it and run it and after a week, bang, light back on. PO173 again. SO, he starts digging in his computer a bit, and come to find out the most common fix for a truck throwing PO171 and PO173 in close proximity to each other is "replace the timing chain guides". WOW, didn't see THAT one coming!

At first I was scratching my head... timing chains?? REALLY?? was my thought... but when I started reading up on it, it started to make some sense. Turns out, when Ford first engineered the "modular" engines (5.4, 4.6, and 4.3V6) they tried to use 10w30 oil like they always had. They had too much oil consumption which was plugging up converters, so they switched to the 5w20 semi-synthetic oil they recommend for those engines. Only problem was, it's so thin that if the truck sits for a couple days or so, the oil would drain back down to the pan and the engine would start "dry" and take a few seconds for oil to get through the system, and the last thing to get oil was the timing chain slack adjusters that snug up the chains. SO, they added an anti-drainback valve to the filters to trap the oil in the system and keep it as full as possible to prevent the problem. Now, if a guy switched to a different viscosity or brand of oil, it would upset this carefully crafted balance the engineers used to solve their problems the engine had in development... and if he used a different brand of oil filter, say a cheaper brand that didn't have an anti-drainback valve, and parked the truck for a couple of days or something, when he cranked up he might have the very same sort of "dry starts" that was causing the problems before... the timing chains would be slack and sloppy and when the engine would start, if the oil wasn't right there to snug the chains up, the chains would slap the PLASTIC timing chain guides and break them. (Course, if they'd have made the [email protected] things out of metal the problem wouldn't have happened in the first place, but that's another story). Once the timing chain guides are busted, the chains flop all the time, because the tensioners can't keep them snug by themselves... SO, what was happening was, the timing chains "whip" inside the engine as it's running and throw the valve timing off, which screws up the computer, that's constantly trying to adjust the fuel trims and valve timing and spark timing and injection timing and duration and all that, so it sets up a feedback loop between what the MAF sensor says how much air it's sending into the engine, versus the computer's fuel trim adjusting the amount of fuel injected, versus what the O2 sensors are reporting for remaining oxygen in the exhaust, causing it to constantly be either too rich or too lean no matter how hard the computer tries to get it right. He replaced the timing chain and the original water pump the truck still had on it (first time I've EVER gotten 281,000 miles out of a water pump!) while he was in there... It made sense and I gave him the go-ahead, turns out my timing chain guides were in four pieces on one side and broken away from the plastic tab that holds it to the bolt on the other and dropped back about an inch out of the way so it was doing nothing... Replaced it all and $1300 later, voila-- no more light... passed inspection easily this year...

SO, point of the story?? Be EXTREMELY careful about what "modifications" you make to these new vehicles, because they're NOT engineered with anything like as much "leeway" as they used to be... Personally, when they're shaving it SO close that the type of oil or filter can cause it to bust stuff up, that's just p!ss poor engineering IMHO... I'd be ashamed to sell something like that... but that's just how ALL of them are made nowdays...

My brother's best friend used to be a mechanic for Chevy/GMC... they'd get trucks in all the time where the first thing some nut with more money than sense would come in, buy a new (at the time) $50,000 diesel pickup, take it right down the road to the "hop up shop" and have them install $10,000-15.000 worth of jack up kits, skid plates, and various and sundry other "junk" on it to jack it up like a monster truck, and then proceed to tear the axles up, tear the drivelines out of it, bust the CV joints, break the transfer case or transmission, or blow the motor, then come looking for warranty work... You can imagine their dismay when they found out that the $10,000 in repairs was going to be 'out of pocket' because the warranty was voided... "You modified it and voided the warranty"... Yup... he told us about some real hum-dingers of cussing fits when Daddy found out all the crap Junior put on the new pickup voided the warranty and now he was out of pocket to put it back together...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker

Nate926 said:


> jD3430 that makes me feel a lot better! I'm just trying to decide if I should do the dpf delete. I'm not adding anymore horse power have no intentions of hyping it up. Look guys I have owned at least 7 or 8 dodge diesels and this makes my 3 ford diesel. They all have there problems. Over the years my number one problem both for and dodge has been electrical problems, and of course sensors. All I know is I'll pick a dodge or for over a Chevy any day. I don't like Chevys for two reason. The suspension feel like the took a set of used 200,000 mile shocks and stuck em on a new truck. 2nd the interior why pay that much and get a interior that came standard in a 1998 ford xl? Just to plain Jane plasticy for me.


Yeah, I've heard that about the Dodge's... Cummins is a great motor, but the pickup they put them in... LOL Kinda falls apart around it...

Not a huge fan of the Chevy's, either... my other BIL has one as well as the wife's cousins in Indiana... nice enough truck, but it kinda reminds me of my 85 F-150... and I didn't like that one at all... Sorta like that old cab style 88 Dodge Cummins regular cab I test drove back in 92... without a doubt THE most uncomfortable truck I've ever driven...

Later! OL J R 

PS. JD is right... take care of stuff and it'll usually take care of you... My 02 4.6 v8 has nearly 290,000 on the odometer and I changed the oil every 3,000 from the time I got it with 29,000 miles on it (2 years old) until it hit 100,000... then switched to every 5,000 miles. Ran full synthetic Mobil One in it until about 170,000 miles, then it started drinking about 2 quarts between changes, which is pretty typical of full synthetic oil in an engine that's getting worn... Then I switched back to the Ford 5w20 semi-synthetic (half-n-half) and oil consumption went back to about a quart every 5,000 miles... now it's a little more...


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## JD3430

One of my friends just sol his 2500HD 6L gasser/auto with 290,000 miles on original motor & trans.


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