# Thin stand



## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

I recently got some hay to cut for the neighbor. The stand is about 4 years old and pretty thin. It is a really weird shaped feild that would be really hard to put row crop on. Is there a way of reviving the stand? Someone said to run through it with a digger. Will this work or is their a better way?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I'd interseed some grass into it early next spring.

Maybe 5# annual ryegrass and 5# orchardgrass.

Or put it to beans one yr and RU the crap out of it and start over.


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## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

When i say hay i am talking alfalfa. Id like to keep it alfalfa if i can. How many cuttings would i get if i interseeded grass into it and that took over the alfalfa? Its goint o be hard to put it into beans because part of it is terrace and neither the planter or bean head will fit.

Also isnt it best to moldboard plow alfalfa? I cant imagine trying to plow that field! lol


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

jtpfarm said:


> When i say hay i am talking alfalfa. Id like to keep it alfalfa if i can. How many cuttings would i get if i interseeded grass into it and that took over the alfalfa? Its goint o be hard to put it into beans because part of it is terrace and neither the planter or bean head will fit.
> 
> Also isnt it best to moldboard plow alfalfa? I cant imagine trying to plow that field! lol


I thinking digging it won't help much if any.Kinda depends on what you hay is going to be used for.Feedlot,dairy hfrs or horses a alf grass mix would work great and get better tonnage,except this yr when dry.The annual rye will fill in fast for the first yr and the orchard is slower to establish for yrs to come.If interseeded cut it like you normaly do 3-4 cuttings?

You can use a ripper to take it out.Works best to kill it off first with RU.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

*another option to interseed.*

*http://www.producerschoiceseed.com/products/forage-legumes-and-grasses/revive-pasture-mix/*


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well to be honest the conventional wisdom insist that you can not seed alfalfa into a thinning alfalfa stand. 
You Neighbor to the East had plot data that says so.
Though a few growers well west of you in practice found they can. 
HERE for sure we can reseed an older stand of alfalfa and end up with a thick stand again. That is here, probably not there. 
Some academics recommend seeding Burseem clover or some another clover. A little East of me that works. For one season.

HERE the major reason to plow out an alfalfa stand is this ground is a high shrink clay and becomes too rough to run equipment over after 4 to 8 years. 
A secondary reason is to accumulate some deep moisture by planting small grains for a season.

In theory we can harvest alfalfa 30 times during the life of a stand. That is a California theory, not a Mn theory.

I hate hay fields that are too irregular in shape for row crops. I consider alfalfa to be a major crop that is greater than soybeans. If it is that bad it is better to fence it and run cattle. Cattle should pay as much as row crops regardless of any odd shapes.

An odd shaped hay field is all turns and turns take time, and time cost us money. Throw in those odd shaped windrows that has us constantly changing ground speed, (Shifting Gears) is a chore.

As a rough guess I would say the crop has not applied enough potash and that is a reason the stand is thinning early.

In theory we can not plant right back into alfalfa because of autotoxicity. This may be a truth but it is not a Universal Truth. You probably would do better planting Burseem Clover into the stand.


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## jtpfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

When you interseed do you just go out here with a drill? The only reason i ask about digging it is becaue i plant and work all the test plots at the elevator and there was alfalfa roads between the plots that were all thind out from being driven on. They decided to change the layout of it so last fall i chisel plowed through the hay. this spring i then dug through them and it came back just beautiful for some reason.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I've interseeded with a regular grain drill with good results.Or can use a notill drill.NRCS would probably have one to rent.Don't plant to deep!_

_digging may prune the roots and put out a few more shoots but it surely won't fill in bare spots like interseeding would._

_Sometimes I'll throw 3-5 lbs of alfalfa seed in when interseeding,it may or may not take.Open bags of left over seed._


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Cy, going to re-seed some alfalfa thin spots that are in a fieId planted this spring but waiting until March to drill....how many pounds/acre of alfalfa would you try to drill down on a re-seed?

Regards, Mike


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

It is my understanding Alfalfa becomes toxic to itself between 5 - 7 years. Then you plant something else for a year then you can reseed Alfalfa. Also in four years it should not be thin. I would pull a soil test ... also what is the weather situation there. If you were my neighbor ... we are in a drought still. I still have cracks in the ground.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I rented the no-till drill from the local NRCS office and couldn't use it. Five of the 11 depth gauge wheels were frozen and stuck at between 1" and 1.5" -- way too deep for grasses. Took it back and told them fuggedaboutit! Check the gauge adjustments before you bring it home--can't move them--don't use it--you'll just be wasting your seed.

(OG needs to be about 1/4")

Ralph


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Vol said:


> Cy, going to re-seed some alfalfa thin spots that are in a fieId planted this spring but waiting until March to drill....how many pounds/acre of alfalfa would you try to drill down on a re-seed?
> 
> Regards, Mike


If just some spots 15-20 lbs.Depends if you have any stand there?

I prefer to add some grass like orchard incase the alfalfa doesnt take,better then weeds!So maybe 5 lbs orchard and 10-15 lbs alfalfa.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Something to consider.

Most people look at calcium needs for alfalfa, but for dry or droughty conditions potassium levels are important. 
If you have hay analysis to look at check the potassium percentage. 
With good misture 1.70% K appears to work. For our normally a drought climate we need at least 2.20% K better yet 2.70% K in the hay analysis. In a dry drought Here we really need more than 2.70% K for the stand to survive well through the summer of drought.

NOW I top dress some potash fertilizer prior the onset of our expected Summer Drought.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

I would agree with hay wilson, that potash is a major factor in yields and stand longevity.


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