# Starting a new hay field from scratch, first time for me.



## Amelia Farms (May 16, 2012)

I am in the process of starting a new hay field from scratch. This will be the first time I am starting from scratch. I have been doing my own hay now on existing fields for 3 years, started with 10 acres the first year and worked up to about 30 acres this year.

Anyhow, a neighbor wants me to take over a 10 acre field that has been let go for a couple of years. It had corn/soybean rotation on it for several years before that. I bush hogged it down about a month ago, it was a variety of weeds/briars and some patches of johnson grass. I sprayed with roundup a little over a week ago, and everything is dead/dying.

I am planning on planting a 50/50 mix of orchard grass and endophyte free fescue. I have customers looking for this in the spring for foaling mares, and it sure brings a premium price over the run of the mill fescue that I currently sell.

The field is extremely rough from being row cropped. My plan from here is to go over it with my 9ft JD offset disk and pull a chain harrow behind that to get things smoothed out. Then broadcast fertilizer and lime. (soil is good ol red clay). I have always used triple 17 fertilizer in the spring on my existing fields, would a different fertilizer normally be used for fall/winter? I picked up an old Oliver drill to seed with. How many lbs/acre of seed would be recommended?

I am hoping to be planting in the next 10 days or so, weather permitting.

Any other thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.

Dave


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Soil Test,then you will know what it needs.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Totally agree with SWMN-anything like that definitely needs a soil test. And if you don't want JG to plague you forever, I would make sure I got rid of that before establishing your permanent hay. Not sure what your soil type name is or characteristics or if it is highly eroded. However, I have just witnessed the greening of my teff field with 3/4" high perfect timothy stand. Yes, I know it is early and many things can mess this up but it looks really great right now. I plan to run the same process in the future for new stands-

Soil test, deep till in the spring, disc, spread lime if needed and fertilizer, disc again, possibly a third time, roller harrow 2x. You should then have a seedbed smooth as glass. Plant teff at 10#/ac about a week before last frost date if you don't have a cold spell coming, and roll it again with tines up. Comes up in about 4-5 days if you have moisture but is killed dead by frost. Any wash out spots are easy to smooth out and over seed to keep your field really nice. Deep tilling-with chisel or moldboard plow, followed by good disking gets the fertilizer and lime well incorporated into the top 4-5 inches and improves your rooting zone.

cut your teff 3 times (about every 30 days at 24" height). If you have minimal JG-dig it up, if more let that area grow til the JGboots, adn nuke it. Cut the teff the last time (some time around the end of August as low as you can so the stubble is short. Spray the stubble 5 days from hay removal with roundup (if you have no moisture it is not as critical, but if you do have moisture in the ground, the teff starts growing before you get the bales off).

Then spread more fertilizer and lime if you need more lime, and no till your OG-F mix-I would use 25#/ac. Seed is cheap compared to getting a partial stand and losing a year to lower yields.

That is what I would recommend you do for best long term results adn field return.

If you are set on seeding this fall, take soil samples before you start-split your field into 4 parts and take a composite sample from each part (about 4-5 subsamples) in each part. Then fertilize with at least 50-50-50 adn probably lime at 2T/ac. Adjust your fertilizer program in spring based on the sample results. So, if your results say you need 120 units of K, add 70 in the spring, etc. Spread your fertilizer and lime before you start disking so you can get it incorporated as much as possible. Just realize that when you run that cutting disk over that JG, you are really going to tick it off and it will get you back. You have to till for multiple reasons and you said the field was rough. Therefore the recommended process above. Good luck. Rick


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## Amelia Farms (May 16, 2012)

Soil tests were sent out last week, waiting on results now. Just trying to get a little info and a plan in mind so I will be ready to go when I get the tests back.

Hayman, I have never heard of anybody planting teff in my area, (piedmont NC), but I am fairly new to this, so I will ask around. Also, so I am clear, you are saying put down the fertilizer and lime before I disc and work it in deep?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Amelia Farms said:


> Soil tests were sent out last week, waiting on results now. Just trying to get a little info and a plan in mind so I will be ready to go when I get the tests back.
> 
> Hayman, I have never heard of anybody planting teff in my area, (piedmont NC), but I am fairly new to this, so I will ask around. Also, so I am clear, you are saying put down the fertilizer and lime before I disc and work it in deep?


Teff is fairly new and a bunch of us on haytalk planted it for the first time this year. I suppose that folks have been doing the same thing with millet for years. And yes, what I am saying is when you have the chance to work it deep do so as all the rest that you will put on for the next 5 years will be just surface applications. Ca and PO4 don't migrate that fast so if you can work them into the root zone and then do your surface apps later, I think you get more bang for your buck. jmo


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I agree with what Hayman said especially the part about working the lime and nutrients into the soil rather than a surface application. The only thing is I did not have a good experience with teff. This was the first year I tried it and even though it does make nice hay I'm not really sold on it as a hay crop. The problems I had was it would lodge really bad before it was ready to cut and that made it hard to mow and get a clean stubble, the other problem was I had very minimal regrowth and I don't know why....and it was low yielding 35 bales per acre. If I would have gotten multiple cuts where the yield would have been higher I may like it a little more. With the low yield it just didn't pencil out very good. Others on here have had quite a different experience with teff than I did.

If you feel that you need to use annual crops for a year to get the weeds under control and fertility built up before you sow your perrienial grass stand I would suggest sowing oats for hay this fall. The oats will be ready to cut the first of May next spring and if done right will make some real nice hay that sells good for horses. What I did this year was after I took the oats off for hay I planted sorghum sudan grass, you can get 2 to 3 cuttings of of it during the summer and early fall. The only downside is I'm finding the sorghum sudan hay a little hard to market...pearl millet may have been a better choice. Then next fall you would plant your fescue/orchard.

I have done this very thing this year and am getting ready to plant fescue/orchard next week and have found it to be a good way to get neglected ground in shape for a perrienial crop. You will want to get a wick bar/weed wiper if you have Johnson grass. There will for sure be some that comes back for a couple years and after you take first cut off when the Johnson grass starts growing in the summer let it get to the the boot or early head stage then hit it with the weed wiper containing a high concentration of glyphosate. Since the Johnson grass will be much taller than your fescue/orchard you won't damage your stand.


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## DelawareHay (Apr 5, 2013)

I would choose something else other than endophyte free fescue. I know endophyte free can have problems surviving. Have you checked out the friendly endophyte fescues? I'm planting BarOptima E34 this fall. Supposedly some nice stuff. I guess I will find it. Give it a quick google search, can't hurt. Maker is Barenbrug


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

It sounds like you have your ducks in a row and are headed in the right direction.

There is a difference between endophyte free and endophyte friendly fescue. Endophyte friendly is a more hardy grass. Most people I know planting fescue are going with the endophyte friendly.

The offset disk will do a nice job in preparing the seed bed. Since it was in crops then the ground will probably be in pretty good shape. Your soil test will let you know what to add.

I am also planting some fescue this fall. I am going to chisel and disk part of it. The other part has some Bermuda and bahia in places and I am just going to drill those areas.

The area I and going to till, I plan to rip it with the chisel plow, then disk and drag. Then run a cultipacker over it, then drill and cultipack again.

I will put the fertilizer on before I drill the seed.


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## Amelia Farms (May 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Can someone give me the cliffs notes on endophyte free vs endophyte friendly?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/20731-kentucky-bluegrass-for-hay/

On this discussion we got into the sub topic of fescue. Post 14 discusses endophyte free and friendly. Several other informative posts in that discussion.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree with the others that an annual crop would probably be in order, especially because of the Johnson grass. Agree that incorporating your lime is the way to go as well. Incorporating your fertilizer deeply depends on your soil test results.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Stay away from the endophyte free....go with endophyte friendly variety. Some steps we would take is take a soil sample, apply the recommended lime, add any P and K in the fall, do some spring N application via granular. Work the ground up firm and fine (for good seed/soil contact), drill or broadcast seed, then come through and cultipack. Follow up with a granular or foliar feeding (if not too hot out) of N after 1st cut is taken off.


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## Amelia Farms (May 16, 2012)

Time for an update I guess. First off, thanks to all that took the time to respond.

I wound up fertilizing and liming per the soil report after 1 pass with the offset disc. Then went back over the field 4 or 5 times to get it smoothed out and incorporate the fertilizer and lime. Pulled a drag harrow behind the offset disc the last pass with the disc and then just pulled the drag harrow the last pass.

Got things pretty smooth, not perfect, it would have been nice to go over it with a finishing disc, but I don't have one so I made do with what I had.

Everything was looking pretty good except for about 1/4 of the field, I brougt up more rocks than you can imagine. When I say rocks, I mean many, many rocks. From football size down to pea gravel. My wife, daughter and I picked about 12 tons over a long weekend, just getting out the bigguns.

Then I drilled in a 50/50 mix of MaxQ fescue and orchard grass, followed the drill with a cultipacker.

I drilled the seed in Halloween day, and we got about 3/10's of rain that night. Not a drop since then. Just seeing a few sprigs coming up this morning, but not many yet. We are going to be down in the 20's the next couple of nights, with a chance of a little rain/snow tonight. Hope I didn't wait too late to get it in the ground, should know in the next few days if it comes in.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Dave


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I believe you will be alright. No matter how early we plant it is not going to sprout well with out moisture.

Picking up rocks is no fun. I am glad they do not grow or reproduce, though at times it seems they do. Sure makes a person appreciate what others did before us in land clearing.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I am pretty sure you are wrong on that Tim. Where I grew up in Northern Minnesota if a field couldn't grow anything else it could always grow rocks. Year after year.


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