# Hay equipment for profit and personal use.



## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

This is my first time doing this so( using a forum) hopefully I don't mess it up. Anyways, I have a 200 acre farm in western Pa. 110 acres are mixed grasses, alfafa, birds foot, red and whit clover, orchard grass ect. I bought the place in 2006, and I have baled it every year with a vermeer 504c built in the early to mid eighties. Usually get three hundred to three hundred fifty bales on first cut. I use about thirty bales for my three cows the rest go to the neighbor. I am an active duty Marine and in Afghanistan, I will retire in two years, and become a full time rancher (Katahdin, dorper sheep) My question is; My plan is to get a new (to me) baler, trailer and truck. Most of my acrage in the future will be taken up with sheep. So I will need to lease land and bale the hay and bring it to my ranch. I want to bale enough to feed my animals and have about a thousands bales to sale on top. Looking at producing two thousand bales a year. Am I thinking correctly in that a used vermeer 504m with net wrap, a Agshield 31' trailer and a 1 ton dually truck is the most efficient way to accomplish my goals; considering a budget of sixty thousand dollars. I am not strung up on make and models of anything I have green and red tractors, yellow and red balers, and I just bought a gehl disk bine (used). Any advice is welcome and will be intelligently considered. I am looking for efficiency to cut on costs, but also working within the limits of what I can afford, please share. -Don


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

First off, thank you for your service to OUR Country.
Second, welcome to the forum.
Third, sounds like you have a plan...and that's a good thing!

There are others on here with years more experience than me, they should be by shortly.
I used search tempest to find my first mo-co & round baler. I just bought a square baler this week from the local JD dealer I couldn't find in the classified.
What I'm saying is keep your eyes open & you can find some good deals out there. You are doing right in starting to look now, when you have plenty of time to look around, and learn all you can about what to look for. Look any used equipment over careful, then look it over again. WHY is somebody getting rid of good equipment?
Best of luck to ya!!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I think I'd spend my $ on a new baler if doing 2000 bales yr.Usually guys are trading it off for a reason.I'd go with 504N._

_The ag shield trailer is spendy.Ramps look STEEP._
2 sizes available﻿ 26 ft. &31 ft LIST prices are $23,887.00 & $27,509.00

Also if using it with 4x5 bales you would be 10' wide which sounds like a bad idea in your part of the country.stacked the other way you would be 8' wide with a row on top to tie it together.

I'd go with a goosneck with beaver tail ( about 10K) with a loader or skid loader on each end.You would have to rearange them any way after dumping them off the other trailer.Some people wouldn't but sides would be touching and cause spoilage.

You can store outside with little damage if stored correctly or you can have a disaster if not.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

You nailed my biggest concerns about a multi trailer, what do you think about a gmc topkick with a 24'x8' flat dump bed with sides I can get a 2002 with 30,000lbs gvwr for 15,000 dollars, instead of the truck and gooseneck combo?


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> _I think I'd spend my $ on a new baler if doing 2000 bales yr.Usually guys are trading it off for a reason.I'd go with 504N._
> 
> _The ag shield trailer is spendy.Ramps look STEEP._
> 2 sizes available﻿ 26 ft. &31 ft LIST prices are $23,887.00 & $27,509.00
> ...


You nailed my biggest concerns about a multi trailer, what do you think about a gmc topkick with a 24'x8' flat dump bed with sides I can get a 2002 with 30,000lbs gvwr for 15,000 dollars, instead of the truck and gooseneck combo?


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

urednecku said:


> First off, thank you for your service to OUR Country.
> Second, welcome to the forum.
> Third, sounds like you have a plan...and that's a good thing!
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

If I might throw in my 2 cents worth: The long GMC truck is a great hay truck, but might have limited "other" uses. I like the smaller truck and trailer because it's more versatile. Trailer can be used to haul other equipment. Light truck could be used "around town" or garaged easier or driven wthout CDL. Light trucks are cheaper to tag with a trailer than a big truck. Light truck could be 4WD and used to plow snow, etc.
I have a couple big trucks and they can be expensive to repair, although I do love air brakes. I have an F-550 that can pull a big trailer, but it fits in a garage and has 4WD so it's decent off-road and in snow.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

donald.kimball said:


> You nailed my biggest concerns about a multi trailer, what do you think about a gmc topkick with a 24'x8' flat dump bed with sides I can get a 2002 with 30,000lbs gvwr for 15,000 dollars, instead of the truck and gooseneck combo?


Iv'e used a truck with a 20 ft bed with hoist.Used it for grain otherwise.It was kinda top heavy with 5x6 bales 2 high.Was kinda nice to just dump them but only held 8 bales.And another vehicle to keep up lisence,ins,etc.

A 5th wheel flatbed with beaver tail is way more versitale.You can haul your loader to the field to load the hay.It is absolutly unreal how much my trailer gets used.30' trailer holds 14 lg rd bales,if they aren't to heavy.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have two bigger type trucks. One is an F 700 is a 20' flat bed with a 10,000 capacity boom. I will probably not tag and insure the boom truck this year. Just not used enough on the road now days to justify the expense.
I do not have a CDL. I have farm tags and do not venture far from home.
I also have farm tags on 3 pick up trucks. The tags are $35.00 per year. Insurance is $20 per month.
My gooseneck trailer tag is $17.00 a year. It is insured by the truck pulling it.
A trailer is by far the least expensive way to haul hay for me.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

You all sold me, Truck and trailer combo it is.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Consider a GM 3500 4x4 with a Duramax diesel/ allison trans. By no means perfect, but has been very reliable compared to other brands I own. They all make good trucks, but the GM has been outstanding.


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## Motor7 (May 13, 2010)

Don, that's the way I went when I retired. Chevy 3500 D-Max 4x4 w/8' flatbed...(way more versatile than the cool looking plastic one). A long time ago I picked up a homemade 20' flat bed bumper tow cheap. I can haul 19 4x4 rolls- 5 on the truck and 14 on the trailer.
Some day I will grab a 30-ish-foot goosneck when the time is right.


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## Motor7 (May 13, 2010)




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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I know a pickup and trailer seems to be real popular with most members, but from experience I'd recommend a straight truck and a trailer.

We used to have an old 73' Dodge straight truck we hauled squares on, I drove it for a few years before I got out of high school then a few more after that and it bit the dust so we used Dad's 3/4 ton truck and a gooseneck trailer to haul with, after two years of that I bought _my_ own straight truck to haul _his_ hay. With a pickup and trailer If it's wet, you're gonna get stuck, a bit of snow, your stuck, too much wind your all over the road while I just motor along in the same situations with my current straight truck and have no problems. I've even pulled pickups with trailers out of the mud/snow with the straight truck. Get one with a dump bed as well, make up some 18" contractors sides and you can haul dirt, rock, firewood or whatever.

I paid 7K for my current truck, a 88' International with a 6 speed and 466DT and a 18' bed with hoist. If the 466 won't start because it's too cold, it's too cold to be out side anyways. As long as you keep the shackles and king pins greased you'll never wear a heavy straight truck out unlike a pickup. The cab will probably rust off this one before I ever actually wear the truck itself out. I get around 11-12 mpg hauling 11 round bales on it. 8-9 mpg hauling 11 on the truck and 11 on a implement trailer. With air brakes on the truck and electrics on the trailer I'm a lot more confident I can get it stopped before a pickup and trailer could.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

mlappin is right on the money. And if that is not big enough, go to a semi. I will take air brakes any day over electric brakes on pick-up/gooseneck combo. I have 2 3/4 tons with electric brake controls and they may work and they may not. One pick-up is 350 chevy gas burner and it sucks it down no matter what, 7 mpg loaded and maybe 10 empty. The other is a duramax diesel and big loads puts it under 10 and runs empty with trailer at 11 to 12. My old Volvo with an 855 cummins runs 6 mpg round trip and hauls 25 ton doing it compared to 9 ton on the pickups.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

one last thing, no matter how good the price may be, stay away from tri-axle trailers. The tires wear alot faster and it seems like the suspension is always wore out no matter how many times you might replace parts. We have a tri-axle 15 ton trailer, haven't used it since getting the 20 ton tandem axle with duals trailer. A tri axle trailer will leave ruts in a hay field where the trailer with duals will barely leave a mark. On a tri axle you have six tires running in only two tracks while with a tandem dual trailer you have 8 tires running in four tracks.


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## donald.kimball (May 20, 2012)

Rgr Gents,
I copy all. Thank you for the great advice, I am so glad I found this websight, as I am gaining knowledge at the cyclic, so many decisions. I know I will make a few poor ones but I only have one shot at making this work. With my retirement pay that I will collect in a few years will leave me able to be a full time rancher and forage producer, so long as I am also making income from it. If I have to many years in a row were I don't get the hay up and sold, well it will probably mean back to the work force with me. All of the advice you all have given is valuable to me. It gives me a more versatile decision loop which in turn should alow me the ability to make better buisness decisions. After my third tour in Iraq I came to Pa and bought a farm in order to convince a girl I loved to marry me...it worked. In 2006 I operated my first tracotr and baled my first hay, I have baled every year since then and have found my true calling. My neighbor taught me so much in those first few years, ( he has been a farmer and a rancher his whole life, vietnam vet too.) I have watched him solve problems that would leave a genius confused. I have continued to buy up land around me, 200 owned and 200 leased, ( wich I am working on buying) Now I am halfway through my second tour in Afghanistan, and my wife and I have a 2 year old son. Soon I will be done with this stuff and I can retire and raise my children being there for them every day, because I am a farmer, because of this site, neighbors and your alls advice, Thanks for the help. GYSgt Kimball


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

mlappin said:


> I know a pickup and trailer seems to be real popular with most members, but from experience I'd recommend a straight truck and a trailer.
> 
> We used to have an old 73' Dodge straight truck we hauled squares on, I drove it for a few years before I got out of high school then a few more after that and it bit the dust so we used Dad's 3/4 ton truck and a gooseneck trailer to haul with, after two years of that I bought _my_ own straight truck to haul _his_ hay. With a pickup and trailer If it's wet, you're gonna get stuck, a bit of snow, your stuck, too much wind your all over the road while I just motor along in the same situations with my current straight truck and have no problems. I've even pulled pickups with trailers out of the mud/snow with the straight truck. Get one with a dump bed as well, make up some 18" contractors sides and you can haul dirt, rock, firewood or whatever.
> 
> I paid 7K for my current truck, a 88' International with a 6 speed and 466DT and a 18' bed with hoist. If the 466 won't start because it's too cold, it's too cold to be out side anyways. As long as you keep the shackles and king pins greased you'll never wear a heavy straight truck out unlike a pickup. The cab will probably rust off this one before I ever actually wear the truck itself out. I get around 11-12 mpg hauling 11 round bales on it. 8-9 mpg hauling 11 on the truck and 11 on a implement trailer. With air brakes on the truck and electrics on the trailer I'm a lot more confident I can get it stopped before a pickup and trailer could.


Marty,I agree with what you are saying with using a straight truck being heavier,brakes,etc.

But they ride like crap,LOL.Many guys here bought a single ax semi to pull a goosneck flat bed ot livestock trailer.Use them for awhile and then park them and go back to using the pickup.

I've got about 400,000 miles on my goosneck trailer pulled with a pickup and thought of single ax semi or full sized one with larger trailer.But so many places I can get into with my pickup with 4WD that I wouldn't be able to with a semi.Or be stuck with 2 WD truck.

I'm still thinking of maybe getting a single ax semi for when conditions are favorable and hauling grain.With a automatic so anyone can drive it(well almost anyone!)


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think either way works. So much depends on the individual's situation. I have both heavy and light trucks. My 4800 4WD is really nice for HEAVY work, but isn't suitable for everyday running around. 
If you're producing and shipping many, many tons of heavy bales, you may need a big unit. 
However, if you need your hay truck to be an everyday driver with swiss army knife versatility a light-medium 4WD chassis can do the job. 
Really depends on the situation...ability to park in garage/barn, who is driving it, CDL, money to spend, plowing snow?
So many factors.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

donald.kimball said:


> Thank you.


You are more than welcome.
I told ya there was some good experience here. I'm in a similar situation, as I retired from the state as of the first day of this month....now I had to go to _work. _But it's so much better feeling to know you are sweaty & tired for YOU and not somebody else.


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