# Castration



## bluefarmer

Which is best, banding as baby calves, or wait and cut them later.


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## ontario hay man

Banding as babies is simple safe and clean. Waiting is messy dangerous and not much fun. In short bands as babies is best. Make sure you get both nuts though because belly nuts are no fun to take out.


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## Dill

We've always banded. My father missed a nut on a beltie a couple years ago. My take was he was a bull and fertile. Dad insisted he was sterile. In about a month we can tell who was right. One nice thing about belties is there is no guessing if the genetics made it through or not.


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## mlappin

Get your self one of these if you wanna wait till their bigger. Run em in the chute, have somebody tail em and good bye jewels.

http://www.castrator.com/eze_castrator_instructions.htm

Several studies suggest delayed castration results in faster gain and healthier critters.


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## Vol

ontario hay man said:


> Banding as babies is simple safe and clean. Waiting is messy dangerous and not much fun. In short bands as babies is best. Make sure you get both nuts though because belly nuts are no fun to take out.


Have to agree with Ontario...I used to check the calving pastures every morning at first light during the calving season. Pull up to the calf in the field truck and work the calf while it cannot resist....if cow is a bit bossy, just put the calf in the bed of the truck while you work it. Never missed a testicle....always used my index and middle finger in a slight curled position...pushed down into the calves bowels with the two curled fingers...one on each side of the little scrotum....clamp fingers tightly and lift gently upwards and feel at the top of the scrotum to make sure both testicles are there before placing the band on it. Much easier on both calf and worker to do at newborn stage imo.

Regards, Mike


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## Tim/South

http://www.nobull.net/bander/SBbenefits.htm

I have one of these for the bigger bulls.

We cut them up until 500 pounds, usually between 350 and 450. When done right it is quick and simple to cut. My son took over cutting when he was 16 years old, cut his first one at age 12.

This is the process we use.

Warning: GRAPHIC






I grew up banding calves. Later when I was on my on I went to the knife.

One problem with cutting is that it usually takes 6 weeks to completely heal. If you want to sell early to get some calves off the momma then they need to be fixed ahead of time.


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## ontario hay man

mlappin said:


> Get your self one of these if you wanna wait till their bigger. Run em in the chute, have somebody tail em and good bye jewels.
> http://www.castrator.com/eze_castrator_instructions.htm
> 
> Several studies suggest delayed castration results in faster gain and healthier critters.


I help my vet part time. A couple weeks ago he cut 75 weighed about 500. After a day of jacking that many I felt like stretch Armstrong lol. I didnt notice any difference of gain or health when I switched to bands. The minimal more gain would be gone with the stress of older castration imo.  if you do wait til they are older your rig there is definitely the best. I have one if I buy any bull calves that are to big.


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## ontario hay man

Dill said:


> We've always banded. My father missed a nut on a beltie a couple years ago. My take was he was a bull and fertile. Dad insisted he was sterile. In about a month we can tell who was right. One nice thing about belties is there is no guessing if the genetics made it through or not.


If hes in with heifers im saying your about to have some baby belties


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## Chessiedog

Run my though the shoot and band and vaccinate 500 pounds or so .


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## bluefarmer

I used to band as babies cause I tag em anyway,but got to waiting because of studies that claim them nuts may have natural growth hormones. If I band at weaning I use the California bander VERY quick easy and simple,otherwise I just knife em. Just thought about starting to band as babies again and wanted to know what y'all prefer.


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## hog987

I band my calves at birth. It is easier on the calf and they heal faster when younger. I sometimes buy bigger bull calves and band them. The last bunch I did was 650 pound animals. When done bigger they really dont grow much at all for 6 weeks afterwards. Sure they will grow faster up to that point but than they will lose ground. It is shown in the prices here. Bull calves are cheaper. The feedlots know they are more labor and less gain for awhile. The cow calf guy gets a bigger calf but than get a discount at auction.


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## ForemanTX

I band them soon as they have been cleaned up and before they get there legs.


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## Colby

We just penned a set of braford cows Tuesday and worked and cut the calves. Most were from 2 weeks old to two months old.


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## bluefarmer

Does anyone use the tribander, all I've ever used was the quad bander type, for baby calves,


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## RanchersEdge

We band at pre condition at about 400 lbs. Give them a tetanus shot and their pre condition meds. The change we noticed was that at this time when we were cutting at branding - the steers at precondition were only 20-25 lbs heavier then the heifers. Now they are 35+. We run about 400-500 head per year with very few issues.

http://www.castrator.com/ezeintro.htm Seems to work the best.

Kit

www.Heifer.PRO


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## hog987

RanchersEdge said:


> We band at pre condition at about 400 lbs. Give them a tetanus shot and their pre condition meds. The change we noticed was that at this time when we were cutting at branding - the steers at precondition were only 20-25 lbs heavier then the heifers. Now they are 35+. We run about 400-500 head per year with very few issues..
> 
> http://www.castrator.com/ezeintro.htm Seems to work the best.
> 
> Kit
> 
> www.Heifer.PRO


That is the same unit I use on bigger calves. I band mine at birth but if I buy some bull calves this is what I use.


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## RanchersEdge

For those of you who band/castrate at birth do you use any implants.

One of my favorite quotes from an old timer here in SE Wyoming "Cut their nuts off then stick it right back in their ears"

Kit

Breed Heifers - Build Herds

www.Heifer.PRO


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## mlappin

RanchersEdge said:


> For those of you who band/castrate at birth do you use any implants.
> 
> One of my favorite quotes from an old timer here in SE Wyoming "Cut their nuts off then stick it right back in their ears"
> 
> Kit
> 
> Breed Heifers - Build Herds
> 
> www.Heifer.PRO


I have no real opinion on way or another on implants, the people I sell halves to for the most part like the fact it's as natural as possible. Whether implants mess with that I don't know, but as long as the buyers checks are good we don't use implants.


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## cornshucker

We use the Callicrate bander, really like it. Takes a little getting used to, but will work on any size bull even mature ones. Hard to do small calves but we usually wait until weaning, band then give a tetanus shot. Works great after a little practice. Only drawback it is a little pricey, but a very well made piece.


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## Tim/South

cornshucker said:


> We use the Callicrate bander, really like it. Takes a little getting used to, but will work on any size bull even mature ones. Hard to do small calves but we usually wait until weaning, band then give a tetanus shot. Works great after a little practice. Only drawback it is a little pricey, but a very well made piece.


I have one also, seldom use it now days. We did recently band a 700 lb. bull prospect that we decided would make a better steer.

Now and then a neighbor will ask us to band a bigger bull calf they are afraid to cut.


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## bluefarmer

California bander works great and lots faster than callicrate,now that's my opinion!!


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## Tim/South

bluefarmer said:


> California bander works great and lots faster than callicrate,now that's my opinion!!


How large of a bull will the California bander band?

The callicrate was much easier after I watched the video.


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## panhandle9400

I like to knife cut them and eat their nuts .........................damn sure tasty along with some fried potatoes, ranch style beans , coleslaw .................big o tea or cold frosty bud longneck......


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## bluefarmer

California bander will band as big as you wanna tackle.


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## deadmoose

I just banded (2) three day old bull calves. My first time. It took a couple tries to count to two but I think I got both on both.


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## deadmoose

Doing it in front of the rest of the herd had me a tad nervous. Got it done though.


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## Vol

I just can't help but laugh out loud everytime I read panhandles reply....heza a character.

Regards, Mike


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## panhandle9400

Here when we run wheat pasture cattle, all calves will come in around 400 to 450lbs and you always seem to have a few bulls on a load, so we will cut them and will have a nut fry later . You need atleast 2 5 gallon buckets of nuts to have much of a feed. It is common out here to eat calf fries or rocky mountain oysters . I guess it is a western way of doing things can't get much better than a [plate full of fried nuts with all the trimmings with some iced down cold beer or even xl crown /coke ....................


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## Nitram

On the way to pasture gen one to two months old bands an vac/worm then they hit the green grass of TeX....er Kansas


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## Shetland Sheepdog

Dill said:


> We've always banded. My father missed a nut on a beltie a couple years ago. My take was he was a bull and fertile. Dad insisted he was sterile. In about a month we can tell who was right. One nice thing about belties is there is no guessing if the genetics made it through or not.


I was told that they bwould be sterile because the testicle/s, being up against the body, would be too warm for viable sperm! I did have 1 Angus that was "short scrotumed", but butchered him! I was also told that it was done on purpose, sometimes, and the bull/steer was used to detect heats without being able to fertilize! Don't remember where I read all that, and it's subject to verication by those with much more experience!


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## hog987

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I was told that they bwould be sterile because the testicle/s, being up against the body, would be too warm for viable sperm! I did have 1 Angus that was "short scrotumed", but butchered him! I was also told that it was done on purpose, sometimes, and the bull/steer was used to detect heats without being able to fertilize! Don't remember where I read all that, and it's subject to verication by those with much more experience!


Most of the time your right if one is missed they are steril. But with nature nothing is perfect. The odd one will still be a bull.

Now figure this one out. We had a pig that one nut was missed. So we went to fix the problem. Found out it was female. So left it alone. When we got it butchered the butcher said we should have castrated it cause it tainted the meat like an old boar.


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## Tim/South

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I was told that they bwould be sterile because the testicle/s, being up against the body, would be too warm for viable sperm! I did have 1 Angus that was "short scrotumed", but butchered him! I was also told that it was done on purpose, sometimes, and the bull/steer was used to detect heats without being able to fertilize! Don't remember where I read all that, and it's subject to verication by those with much more experience!


Some unethical's will push the jewels up into the body before the muscle closes, then band the bag. Looks and acts like a steer for a long time. Some believe they grow off quicker.


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## deadmoose

Vol said:


> Have to agree with Ontario...I used to check the calving pastures every morning at first light during the calving season. Pull up to the calf in the field truck and work the calf while it cannot resist....if cow is a bit bossy, just put the calf in the bed of the truck while you work it. Never missed a testicle....always used my index and middle finger in a slight curled position...pushed down into the calves bowels with the two curled fingers...one on each side of the little scrotum....clamp fingers tightly and lift gently upwards and feel at the top of the scrotum to make sure both testicles are there before placing the band on it. Much easier on both calf and worker to do at newborn stage imo.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Sounds so easy. I had perfect chance on newborn bull calf today. I think ai missed. I pulled the band off. Will try again tomorrow. Mama is a bit up in arms right now. She was ok but didn't wanna push it. She has big horns. I have a 4 wheeler.


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## IHCman

We band ours when they're a day old. Tag and 7 way em at that time too. I feel its a lot less stress on them to band them young. We use the same method as Vol explained in an earlier post. Seems like I have to lay the calf down on his left side, If I try to do it opposite it just doesn't feel right and doesn't work as well. Seems every year we have one or two that both nuts aren't down. Those we don't band, we leave em till fall and cut em with a knife. Had one a few years ago that had both nuts up in his abdomen. Took that one to the vet and she said no go on cutting that one. had to sell it as a bull.

The few we do cut in the fall we started using a Newbury knife on and also an attachment on a cordless drill to spin the nuts off. No bleeding this way and very little swelling if disinfected properly and also a shot of long acting penicillian.

The only drawback to banding calves as babies is there isn't any nuts to fry up later.


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## snowball

bluefarmer said:


> I used to band as babies cause I tag em anyway,but got to waiting because of studies that claim them nuts may have natural growth hormones. If I band at weaning I use the California bander VERY quick easy and simple,otherwise I just knife em. Just thought about starting to band as babies again and wanted to know what y'all prefer.


That is so true you cut the nuts out of a baby calf you take the growth out of them at the same time.. their nuts are full of growth hormones, your steers will look like heifers . JMO. but I wait and band them between 4 and 500 lbs just me though, if your dead set on doing as babies best cut them out


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## Supa Dexta

Thats simply not true. There are 1000's upon 1000's of steers made everyday with elastics as new calves. Does it leave a bit of growth on the table? Sure it can. But its better than a single dead 600 lb'er that bled out when cut 6 months down the road. Or getting docked on every calf cause you didnt take the nuts off em at all.

Do what works best for you, but don't say cutting beats banding as a blanket statement. Properly done bands are quick easy and effective. Calf jumps back up and starts nursing again most times.


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## Vol

IHCman said:


> The few we do cut in the fall we started using a Newbury knife on and also an attachment on a cordless drill to spin the nuts off. No bleeding this way and very little swelling if disinfected properly and also a shot of long acting penicillian.


IHC....tell us more about the drill spin. I am not familiar with that technique and if you could avoid bleeding that would be so much better and a lot less flies.

Regards, Mike


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## Tx Jim

Dill said:


> We've always banded. My father missed a nut on a beltie a couple years ago. My take was he was a bull and fertile. Dad insisted he was sterile. In about a month we can tell who was right. One nice thing about belties is there is no guessing if the genetics made it through or not.


When I was in FFA I was taught that testicles are in a scrotum to get them away from some of the body heat which will kill the sperm. I vote no calves will be produced from the one testicle BELTIE.


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## snowball

Supa Dexta said:


> Thats simply not true. There are 1000's upon 1000's of steers made everyday with elastics as new calves. Does it leave a bit of growth on the table? Sure it can. But its better than a single dead 600 lb'er that bled out when cut 6 months down the road. Or getting docked on every calf cause you didnt take the nuts off em at all.
> 
> Do what works best for you, but don't say cutting beats banding as a blanket statement. Properly done bands are quick easy and effective. Calf jumps back up and starts nursing again most times.


I think you miss understood me Supa.. This is JMO If i'am going (which I don't know why I would) to take the nuts off a new born bull calf I like to cut them because I'am by myself and mama breathing hot snot up my @ss and flinging mud in in the air because I'am overhauling her calf. ETR (estimated time of removal ) ASAP so for me cutting is faster than trying to play hide & seek with 2 little nutts to band but I would much rather band 200 lb and up calf I feel it's a lot less stressful on them and you don't get a bleeder either


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## snowball

Vol said:


> I just can't help but laugh out loud everytime I read panhandles reply....heza a character.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I spent some QT in panhandles area , You got to be like him to survive out there LOL.. I wished I could have found a women that likes that area as much as I do . I would be there eat'n calf fries, and drink'n cold 1's with him to me that's God's country


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## TJH

I've used the callicrate bander for three years now. I'll never go back to a knife. It works best when they hit the 5 weight status. One other thing is that testosterone is the best growth hormone in the world and it's free. The most important thing with any bander is to make sure that you give a tetanus vaccine and then band on the booster shot. Climatic conditions affect how long it takes to get the "fall." Fifty to seventy five degrees takes around three weeks. Any time the temp is above eighty silt the scrotum or gasses will make it swell and burst. My buddy who helps me work calves was very skeptical when I bought the bander, he having train wrecks with bands, but he could not believe how well it worked. I have not tried the Wee Bander yet and most likely won't, as I won't do it before 5 to 6 weight anyway.


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## snowball

Man We must be a rough bunch..here on HT look at all the replies to cut'n nut's


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## Tim/South

TJH said:


> I've used the callicrate bander for three years now.


I also have one and it has it's place here. We will always knife cut up to @ 550 lbs.

I used the Callicrate bander on some 6 wt. bulls one summer. Never again in hot weather.

We can knife cut a calf as fast as a person can band one. We remove the cord and never have a bleeder. Have cut the bull calves for two neighbors this year, around 75 total, and not one bled other than from opening the scrotum. Calves went right back to grazing and nursing.


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## IHCman

Vol, the tool we use to spin the nuts off is called the Henderson castration tool. Dad saw our vets using it and liked how it worked, so he had to buy one. Works pretty darn good.


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## Tim/South

The Henderson does a good job and is quick. You get a nice long cord which is why they do not bleed. My concern is they do not mention in the videos about removing the connective tunic tissue from the testicle before spinning.

From: https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/PB1664.pdf



> Each testicle is covered by a
> 
> tough, strong membrane called the
> 
> vaginal tunic. The vaginal tunic
> 
> covering each testicle needs to be
> 
> removed during surgical castration
> 
> or swelling and infection are more
> 
> likely to result.


We disconnect the tunic tissue and pull the cord out, pretty much the same as the Henderson tool except we do not twist.


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## Ray 54

Here in California there are some old curmudgeons that don't always remember it is 21,s century.We like to keep the Vaquero cowboy traditions alive. Head and heal the calves and bring them to the fire.Put a hot iron on them, so nobody will ever take that mark off of them alive. Cut the nuts out with a emasculatar as Tim/South was so nice to put a picture of up of in the above link. Give any shots that are needed,cut horns and let them go back in the brush with momma. With friends helping friends have worked thousands of calves over 50+ years.There is good parts of all the methods talked about and have banded a few over the years.We don't want a open wound in summer with greater fly pressure and dust .But it really costs to sell one as a bull ,so one bull that go missed in the gather in March will get banded in July at weaning.Then I almost cry at the good eating that will go to waste,as Panhandle talked about.Fry the mountain oysters up with some garlic ,and nothing is any better than that follow with cold beer.

On a side note saw cooking show with a Texas theme and going to feed a branding crew,and this hot little honey comes with fried chicken.What a insult in the eyes of this cowboy.Around here you better have some beef to put on a grill close to the branding pen works.Beans even out of a can, toast some french bread or sour dough dip it in melted butter.Cut open a bag of the pre cut salad greens and you have meal that you can do on fire at the corral if the house is not close,and not that costly.A lot easier to get help next time you want a crew of cowboys,and don't ever look like you close to out of beer. Kind of goes to the work smarter not harder,good ropers on better horses can take the work out off doing bigger calves,and easy on the cattle too.

With the drought out here are numbers are way down,so we have fewer cattle to find but still 100's of acres to loose them in.General rule of 10 acres per cow as a minimum many times much more.So different from most of your ways,they better calve on there own. If they wish to hind they can a lot of brush, trees,and rough ground you will never cover well with a ATV. When we get lucky and have fall ,winter rains you have the devils own time trying get calves tagged as a new born.Different ways for different conditions.


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## Dill

bluefarmer said:


> California bander works great and lots faster than callicrate,now that's my opinion!!


I just ordered one of those today. I bought a cow/calf pair last Nov. Calf was from june,had to really struggle to get the green elestic on. I was cleaning the barn last weekend and was at just the right height to notice that the band must have broke right after I put it on. Watching the videos the California seemed like a slick unit for larger calves.


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## jr in va

bluefarmer said:


> Does anyone use the tribander, all I've ever used was the quad bander type, for baby calves,


I use the tri bander and have been satisfied.I also have an XL bander from the same company for larger ones which were born at odd time.


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## hayray

I use calcicrate bander at around 400 pounds. I used to try to tag and band if I could catch them at birth but it was hard to get both nuts and also can be dangerous at times as I am always by myself on remote pastures, plus the cows also hide their calves for the first couple weeks anyways and often the calves are up and running before i ever see them. I tried cutting for a few years and found banding easier and less stress.


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## deadmoose

For those of you who recommend banding at birth, how much does weather affect this decision? With my shaggy Highlanders, I had one I left last summer after learning the hard way about flies.

Now I have a different dilemna: had a calf today. With lows in the teens (I think) I wonder about putting too much stress on the lil guy.


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## glasswrongsize

Nice looking calf, Moose. I banded a couple about this time last year, buy we might have been warmer then than you are now (I remember it was colder then than now here, though). Had to wait a few days on one of them for the testicles to drop enough. That's about all I can tell you until someone (nearly everyone) with more moo-moo smarts comes along.

73, Mark


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## BWfarms

I band when there are minimal flies and other insects. Pretty much December/January here. Give them a tetanus booster. Weather is always my factor. I have banded either way birth up to weaning. There is a growth difference, the longer I wait the better conditioned the bull calf is and can handle the banding stress. I have done few weeks to couple month old calves and noticed they are more lethargic and drop weight and are slower to gain, among fly irritations and heat.


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## Tim/South

I believe cool season is the best time to band.


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## IHCman

We band all ours at birth. I've banded em when its cold and when its hot. They don't seem to notice the band at all. If you band, tag, and give a 7 way, your done so fast I feel that it places a very minimal amount of stress on them.

I'd be more concerned about the stress on yourself worrying about one of those horns up your backside if momma gets pissed. lol

banding at birth and banding when they're 6 months plus are totally different. I favor banding at birth over banding older bigger calves.


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## Vol

IHCman said:


> We band all ours at birth. I've banded em when its cold and when its hot. They don't seem to notice the band at all. If you band, tag, and give a 7 way, your done so fast I feel that it places a very minimal amount of stress on them.
> 
> I'd be more concerned about the stress on yourself worrying about one of those horns up your backside if momma gets pissed. lol
> 
> banding at birth and banding when they're 6 months plus are totally different. I favor banding at birth over banding older bigger calves.


That is precisely the way I used to do it....except I drove the truck up to the calf as the last cows I operated were Chi-angus and some of them were cold blooded killers ....if the calf gave out a bawl I knew to get my tail in the back of the truck as fast as I could .....and I would try to take the calf with me if I thought I had time so I could finish the job.

Regards, Mike


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## IHCman

Neighbors had chi-angus cross cows. They were exactly as you described. Neighbors tagged the same way as you. Their old 84 red dodge looked like it had been in a demolition derby with all the dents in. Neighbor would tell stories of not getting the door shut fast enough while draggin a calf in to tag it. Mother cow would be trying to climb in the cab with him. Same neighbor got into buffalo which had a similar disposition. he has gotten out of the buffalo business, still has wild cows but I believe he has given up on tagging calves. His cows are about feral. They calve out in the sandhills on their own and probably see a human once or twice a year other than feeding, then they just see a tractor.


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## Vol

Timely....saw this today....Ask the Vet.

Regards, Mike

http://www.dtnprogressivefarmer.com/dtnag/common/link.do?symbolicName=/free/news/template1&product=/ag/free/expertadvice&vendorReference=0702DE53&paneContentId=70107&paneParentId=70104


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## Tim/South

From Mike's link:



> Many years ago, I had to recastrate a group of bulls where only two out of 23 were done correctly. The rest had either one or both testicles left. That was a long and costly process I do not care to repeat.


I bought some holstein calves through the sale barn a few years ago. Every one of them had the scrotum banded with the jewels pushed up inside the belly. It would have cost an arm and a leg to get them cut out. I sold them as big yearlings and stated they were banded bulls.

We knife cut, something I began here years ago. Before that my family always banded. I do have the Callirate bander. It is good if you have a bull too large to cut. I have not used it in a few years.


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## Vol

I have banded(always successfully) and I have cut(also always successful) and was always comfortable doing both.....I had a Vet teach me how to cut....and I taught myself how to always be successful banding. I remember one time when I first started banding that I failed to get one testicle outside the band and had to cut the band off and re-band. I made myself experiment until I found a way that I was always assured that I had both testicles outside the band.

I have cut a few "steers" that had a testicle from a obvious mis-banding....makes one kind of squeamish cutting the partial scrotum but it can be easily done with proper holding facilities.....and I always had my dad bending the tail up the spine....a great distracting move.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer

I have always cut. But I would like to try banding some smaller calves usually cut around 400#. What banding tool would work best? California bander??


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## Tim/South

My grandfather banded. It was the "new/modern way" for him. He considered it high tech. He never missed a nut. His secret was a length of wax string. He made a slip knot and put it around both nuts, securing them in place. He then ran the tag end of the string through the band and slipped it up over both nuts. undo the bander and slip the string off.

I believe the small "cheerio" banding method is the most popular for small calves.


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## Swv.farmer

Sounds like a good ideal.


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## deadmoose

Tim/South said:


> I believe the small "cheerio" banding method is the most popular for small calves.


Thanks for the re assurance all. Timing worked out that I couldn't get to him until today (4 days old, I think).

After much more patience executed than I have, I gave him a lil green cheerio. Mama watched and although intimidating, she was a good girl.


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## Swv.farmer

Glade it worked out for you.


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## IHCman

Biggest problem with banding as babies and not waiting till fall to cut them, is you don't have any nuts to fry up and eat.


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## swmnhay

Tim/South said:


> From Mike's link:
> 
> I bought some holstein calves through the sale barn a few years ago. Every one of them had the scrotum banded with the jewels pushed up inside the belly. It would have cost an arm and a leg to get them cut out. I sold them as big yearlings and stated they were banded bulls.
> 
> We knife cut, something I began here years ago. Before that my family always banded. I do have the Callirate bander. It is good if you have a bull too large to cut. I have not used it in a few years.


One nutters or cattle that have there nuts pushed up will become bully the older they get.They can cause big problems with riding and bulling,broken legs,lame animals from riding,etc.Discounted severely when finished as a Stag.They will stand out in a pen of fats plain as day,the heads a little bigger and curly hair on their forehead.Discount for stags was $35 per hundred in the meat last I looked.


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