# How much to bail a 4x5 roll of hay??



## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

For me it goes like this.
Tripple19 415. A tone 300 pounds to the acre equals 6.6 acres and then to spray for weeds 10. A acre then land rent at 3. A bail so if I do good and get five rolles to the acre I think by the time You figure equipment and time around 24. Bucks a roll by the time I get it in the barn.


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## Bigfoot62 (Jul 26, 2017)

If I start trying to figure how much it costs to produce my hay vs. what I sell it for, I'd probably just get depressed.  Let's see: Over $175,000 invested in tractors, mowers, rake, tedder, and baler. Diesel nearly $2 per gallon. Mower blades about $30 per set, and two or three sets per season. Sisal twine $55 per bale, and I get about 30-35 rolls per bale of twine. Average about $4000 a year for fertilizer and lime. Not to mention wear and tear, and maintenance, or the cost of the hay barn. And don't EVEN talk about how many hours I spend in the hay field. OK, that's it. I quit. Anybody want to buy me out? 

Seriously, though, a few years ago, one of my neighbors talked me into cutting and baling his hay field. We agreed on $10 per acre to cut, plus $15 per roll to rake and bale. (4x5 round bales) So, that came out to about $17-18 per bale that he was paying me. He quit using me to do it after two seasons, because he thought my price was too high. Honestly, I was glad to give it up because I don't think I was making any profit.

I'd say your estimate is probably close, if not a little low.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

First, I figure my per-acre costs; then I figure my per-bale costs; next, I divide my per-acre costs by the number of bales I got per acre and add that back to my per-bale constant.

For me, the first thing I figure is my per acre cost (which is lower than my custom rate)
Spray $10.00 (your figure)
Mow $12.80
Rake (per time) $5.50
Ted (per time) $5.00

-----------------------------------

Total $33.30

Next I figure my per-bale costs

Bale $6.15
Haul $2.50
Fertilize (per bale) $12.60 (this is 1000lb bale-dry matter; not actual scale weight)-fert cost

-------------------------------------------------------
Total $21.25

So, constant cost of the cost *per* 1000lb *bale* is $21.25; the constant cost to spray,mow, ted, rake* per acre* is 33.30. For illustration, if you only get 1 bale per acre, it would be 21.25+33.30 = $54.55 per bale. For your 6.6 bales per acre (for me and my costs) it would be $5.05 (which is the 33.30/6.6) plus $21.25= $26.30 per bale. If you are giving $3 per bale as land rent, it would move the cost to $29.30 per bale.
I have no idea what your 4x5 bales weigh and I used my 5x6 bale figures for fertilizer. If your bales weigh 500 lbs dry matter, your fertilizer costs (using my cost figures) would be 6.30 per bale (½ of the 12.60 above). The 500 lb bale would have an input cost of $23.00.

I have a sliding scale for my "rent" on the per-bale basis. Below is my scale.

*Price list Small bales ("rent" on a per-bale basis)*

*paying (I fert)*

$1.00 per bale 40 bales per acre and above
$0.75 per bale 30-40 bales per acre
$0.50 per bale 20-30 bales per acre

*on halves * *(U fert) *

I get min 20 bales per acre to break even

*Round bales ("rent" on a per-bale basis)
Paying (I fert)*

$10.00 per bale 3 bales per acre and above

$7.50 per bale 2 bales per acre
$0.00 <2 I lose money and you get fertilized and mowing for free

*On halves (U fert)*

I get min 1.5 bales per acre to break even

Mark


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

A few years ago i figured it COST $40 to grow, harvest, and sell a 5-6 bale of good alfalfa/grass. Using decent but not new iron. I bet it would be closer to $60 a bale now here.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

My cost to produce a 4x5 bale of hay is around $32....a small square around $3 +- 10%


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

And when the farmer wants 35 a roll people think you are trying to rob them.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Swv.farmer said:


> And when the farmer wants 35 a roll people think you are trying to rob them.


They do....and some farmers think I'm trying to rob them when they want me to cut and bale their fields for next to nothing.....it's a cycle that needs to be broken, the only thing that can change the equation is higher pricing on the consumer end. And sadly, as long as their are people willing to make it, people will line up to buy it, further declining the market....


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

And around here you see people selling 4x5 for $25. I've seen baleage for the same price and they have added costs of wrapping. It's no wonder I can't sell mine for $45.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

A local friend is buying good hay for $25 per roll.

He is paying $20 per roll to have his 12 acre hay field made into hay. He says there is no money in making hay. For what he can buy it for he is correct.

If I knew I could buy all the hay I need for $25 per roll I would sell my hay equipment.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Lost my best hay customer this year cause his neighbor is selling horse hay to him for $25/bale.

Buddy sold all his hay equipment and is buying hay for his beef cows. Money wise he is ahead. He can run twice as many cattle now, doesn't have all the cost to buy own store equipment, and he has been able to buy decent hay for $150/ton or less. Only year in the past 10 that hay was sky high was 2012. Around here dairy is big so he gets hay that someone needs to unload that isn't dairy quality, or he goes to the auction and waits for the bargain of the day....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

If all I were doing is making RB's, I'd be out.
$100/ton is all I can get for average hay. The good thing is those bales dont have to go into a barn, and they dont have to be perfect.

I MUST mow large non-hayable fields to make the whole operation pencil and even then, it isn't much money. 
An older farmer stopped by to talk yesterday and he said " 'bout 20 years ago, when I made bales not suitable for horses, I used to take them to the mushroom plant and sell them for $100/ton". I said "yeah that's what I do, too...... Still only pays $100/ton".

The price of hay around here really hasn't gone up for like 20 years. Yet I know nothing that has stayed same or gone down in price we use to grow, cut, bale, store and transport hay. 
Thats why I try to make as much as I can, mow open space that cant be hayed, plow snow and build a barn or garage or a house to supplement income.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> If I knew I could buy all the hay I need for $25 per roll I would sell my hay equipment.


That is precisely why I make most of my hay in little squares.....I can still get $240/ton or better....no market for rounds here.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

If I could get $100/ton for all my round hay I'd be on a beach in Mexico and the hands here running round the clock. Most brings $30 a bale which is about 60/ton. Wish we had mushroom barns.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Lewis Ranch said:


> If I could get $100/ton for all my round hay I'd be on a beach in Mexico and the hands here running round the clock. Most brings $30 a bale which is about 60/ton. Wish we had mushroom barns.


Wellllllllll, I'm not on a beach in Mehico, BUT I have been known to hang with the great unwashed on the beaches of Surf City or North Wildwood 

The downside of the mushroom houses is that most will only accept hay from me sept-march. Other than that, I feel pretty lucky to have them.
If you're getting $60/ton, it seems like it's about a break even for you? Unless you're feeding a lot of it.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> That is precisely why I make most of my hay in little squares.....I can still get $240/ton or better....no market for rounds here.


 I'm anywhere from $300-$240 a ton on small squares. Same deal here on the rounds.....the same hay that I square bale would only bring $30 for a 4x5 roll or about $75 a ton. I figure my costs are around $100 a ton which would be $40 in a 4x5. As much as I would like to have one for rained on hay I can't see any way I could buy a round baler knowing that I would be losing money on every bale I made.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I'm anywhere from $300-$240 a ton on small squares. Same deal here on the rounds.....the same hay that I square bale would only bring $30 for a 4x5 roll or about $75 a ton. I figure my costs are around $100 a ton which would be $40 in a 4x5. As much as I would like to have one for rained on hay I can't see any way I could buy a round baler knowing that I would be losing money on every bale I made.


Because there may not be one around to rent and this may....will....happen again. Might be able to bale some bad ground, say an airport, and sell for $30 a bale? Get paid twice?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I wish there was a market for mushroom hay here. At $100 a ton that would make it worth buying a round baler for the hay that isn't horse quality. It would also put a bottom on the hay market and make quality hay for cows worth more. Honestly most of the hay that is baled around here for cows is mulch/mushroom quality hay.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

I usually take some mulch small squares down to the mushroom farm(compost place actually) near Reading each year( just for fun and to get rid of them) but I never really seen any round bales coming in there just big squares and smalls, I don't think they even take round bales there. Those places that take rounds must be further south, Kennett Square, Avondale PA?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

At $100 a ton i would focus my whole business on raising the most mushroom hay i could.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Because there may not be one around to rent and this may....will....happen again. Might be able to bale some bad ground, say an airport, and sell for $30 a bale? Get paid twice?


 Yeah, I know sooner or later it's going to happen again......just part of the hay business. That is a real weak point for me being in the hay business because I don't really have a market for anything but the premium squares. Nope, the airport keeps it cut themselves with every couple weeks.....they don't want it hayed.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

https://erie.craigslist.org/grd/d/round-bales/6237391649.html

https://erie.craigslist.org/grd/d/hay/6236726504.html

https://erie.craigslist.org/grd/d/hay-for-sale/6206763468.html

This is the crap the prices down here. If someone orders a 4x5's out of the field my price is $43. That same bale based on 40 lb. square is worth about $52 in small squares.

Saw an ad where a guy was looking for 100-150 4x5's. I offered to supply him for $40/bale. His price he was willing to pay was $20. If I knew where there were unused weed fields I could get for free and the time I may have tried but its still not worth the wear and tear on equipment.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Y'all have one crazy ass market there.....what is the problem, too much supply or not enuf demand?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yep.....those kind of ads make it tough for folks trying their best to bale quality forage. I used to hear callers say, "well so and so has little squares for $4(or less)"....and I would also tell them that you can buy cars for $2000 but they won't be worth a crap. Click.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

One of the local old hags that has a couple nags in her back yard interrupted me and my kids out for lunch bragging she paid $2/bale out of the field. I just kept thinking to myself why would anyone let hay go that cheap? She was probably lying, but who knows. She was practically giggling about it. The reason hay is selling so cheap in my area is because the beef market tanked is what I'm told.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Y'all have one crazy ass market there.....what is the problem, too much supply or not enuf demand?



I would say too much supply especially this year based on my yields but those are the prices you see every year. I saw in the paper this weekend hay for sale at $2.50 and $2.75. I'm at $2.45 yet still have hay in the field. Just keep trying to get the customer here. The size of bale and complements on the hay is what keeps them coming back. After seeing what was on the semi taking mine to Florida my bales are awesome. Had to move some that were feather light, strings falling off, half the lenght and cow shit in them. Did not feel bad about the little weed sticking out of mine at that point but did think I hope he is paying them a lot less because I'm getting screwed and they are making out like bandits if pay is the same.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Green Fields said:


> I usually take some mulch small squares down to the mushroom farm(compost place actually) near Reading each year( just for fun and to get rid of them) but I never really seen any round bales coming in there just big squares and smalls, I don't think they even take round bales there. Those places that take rounds must be further south, Kennett Square, Avondale PA?


I send some rounds to Reading.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Hay market really sucks here....more and more dairy's are closing up lowers demand. The dairys that are in business are going to rations that don't include hay. A bunch of the big dairys here don't grow alfalfa anymore...going to rye/corn double crop system on all ground...

Helped the neighbor load and deliver small squares this winter. Horse quality hay for $105/ton..

Now a couple custom guys in the area bought bale barons so I am sure that will flood the small square market even worse..


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Since I started doing this full time in the last 3 years 2 local dairy's quit and went to selling hay and a local kid whose dad has money is selling hay. Total for those 3 at just a guess is 300-400 more acres of hay ground in an already saturated area of hay sellers.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Yup, you should see the hay auction down here. Guys are driving down from northern pa and NY to come to the auction here to sell...I guess these low prices will thin the suppliers out and the cycle will start all over again...


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

The trouble here is you got people who bail anything mostly junk they get 12 Bucks a roll old equipment no lime no fertlize and lots of weeds and when you have good hay people still don't want to pay anything for it so I just feed mine out.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Vol said:


> Yep.....those kind of ads make it tough for folks trying their best to bale quality forage. I used to hear callers say, "well so and so has little squares for $4(or less)"....and I would also tell them that you can buy cars for $2000 but they won't be worth a crap. Click.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yeah, back when I was custom baling I had a guy come over one day wanting me to do some custom baling for him. I jumped in his truck and he took me over to his ranch, which was a lot of dry standing grass and weeds with some good green grass underneath... Basically he wanted it cleaned up, which would have been better to do with a bush-hog, but he wanted something to show for the money I guess, even if it was some sorta crappy hay...

SO, we looked everything over and talked about obstructions and stuff and then he got around to asking me about cost... "I get $18 a roll to cut, rake, and bale it, and I'll move it to the field edge as a courtesy-- transportation beyond that is extra." "Shoot!" he says, "I can get fertilized bermuda rounds from a guy for $25 a roll!" I looked at him deadpan and said, "Well, that sounds like a h3ll of a deal-- why are we wasting time looking at this stuff then? I know what it costs me in time, fuel, maintenance, and repairs and still make a reasonable profit, and that's my price... take it or leave it..."

He called me back the next day to come cut it for him...

I don't put up with people jewing me down on stuff... I know what it costs, what I need out of it, pay or get lost, doesn't make a crap either way to me, just don't waste my time...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Swv.farmer said:


> The trouble here is you got people who bail anything mostly junk they get 12 Bucks a roll old equipment no lime no fertlize and lots of weeds and when you have good hay people still don't want to pay anything for it so I just feed mine out.


Yeah, exactly the same here... everybody wants it for junk prices...

Why I quit custom baling too... I had older equipment that didn't roll as tight or pretty a bale as the BTO's in the area, who were charging between $5-10 more a roll for baling... I cut my pricing for cut/rake/bale jobs cheaper to compensate; after all, I'm running (then) 20-30 year old equipment that's paid for and NOT running around in a shiny new expensive diesel pickup, so I could afford to work cheaper, and realized that the bales weren't as "pretty" as those coming out of new round balers...

Even though I was baling cheaper, I STILL had guys trying to jew me down from what I was charging, and I didn't put up with it... "I know what it costs me to for fuel, twine, maintenance, and repair and still make a little profit on the deal-- my price is what it is, if you don't like it, that's okay by me... quit wasting my time..." Most guys were fine with it once I explained it to them.

What bugged me was when they'd whine afterward, "man, those bales aren't as heavy or as pretty as so-in-so's..." I just turned it right back to them, "Yeah, well, I'm not running a brand new $30,000 baler either, and I'm not charging you extra to pay for a shiny new diesel pickup like he is, either..."

People suck... you can't please 'em no matter what you do... We quit messing with selling hay and doing custom work and just bale and feed our own... that way I don't have to mess with nobody.

Later! OL J R


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

luke strawwalker said:


> Yeah, exactly the same here... everybody wants it for junk prices...
> 
> Why I quit custom baling too... I had older equipment that didn't roll as tight or pretty a bale as the BTO's in the area, who were charging between $5-10 more a roll for baling... I cut my pricing for cut/rake/bale jobs cheaper to compensate; after all, I'm running (then) 20-30 year old equipment that's paid for and NOT running around in a shiny new expensive diesel pickup, so I could afford to work cheaper, and realized that the bales weren't as "pretty" as those coming out of new round balers...
> 
> ...


So I cut and bale about 15 acres, bush hog another 8 thats too steep and weedy to bale, and lawn mow another 5-6 acres (also weed wack) for a dentist. He paid 2 million for his house and dumped another 1/2 million into it.
On Sunday, he calls me and asks me to meet him at his place. He tells me hes not pleased with the lawn areas, they're too small and he wants them enlarged. I said it was no problem, but the first few times I enlarged the lawns out into the fields they'd look a little rough. He said no problem, just go ahead and do it. So i did all the work early this week. He texted me "thanks, looks good". 
Then I emailed him my bill for cutting the fields and the lawns with....get this....a whopping $30 increase in the lawn cutting bill for the extra hour of lawn cutting. He calls me next day whining his fat private school ass off about $30 freakin dollars!!

Meanwhile this overstuffed prick, given everything (his dad gave him his dental practice) is squeezing me over $30 bucks!!!! I bet this guy makes $300,000/year!!
You're right! People do mostly suck!!


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

IH 1586 said:


> Since I started doing this full time in the last 3 years 2 local dairy's quit and went to selling hay and a local kid whose dad has money is selling hay. Total for those 3 at just a guess is 300-400 more acres of hay ground in an already saturated area of hay sellers.


 that's a problem that happens all the time these dairies go out any guys got Hundred Acres a good hay fields and they're going to make the hay and put it on the market


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So I cut and bale about 15 acres, bush hog another 8 thats too steep and weedy to bale, and lawn mow another 5-6 acres (also weed wack) for a dentist. He paid 2 million for his house and dumped another 1/2 million into it.
> 
> On Sunday, he calls me and asks me to meet him at his place. He tells me hes not pleased with the lawn areas, they're too small and he wants them enlarged. I said it was no problem, but the first few times I enlarged the lawns out into the fields they'd look a little rough. He said no problem, just go ahead and do it. So i did all the work early this week. He texted me "thanks, looks good".
> 
> ...


You know I have found that the "wealthy" people that earned it are somewhat decent to work with because they understand business and understand that you need to make a dollar just like they do/did. Its the wealthy ones that inherit the money that give you the grief. I think its because they know the well is slowly going dry and when its done its done...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

IH 1586 said:


> Since I started doing this full time in the last 3 years 2 local dairy's quit and went to selling hay and a local kid whose dad has money is selling hay. Total for those 3 at just a guess is 300-400 more acres of hay ground in an already saturated area of hay sellers.


We need the grain markets to pick up.....$5 corn and $12 beans would be game changer.

Regards, Mike


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

IH 1586 said:


> And around here you see people selling 4x5 for $25. I've seen baleage for the same price and they have added costs of wrapping. It's no wonder I can't sell mine for $45.


Have the same problem here. I'm just letting them sell all their garbage hay fast for less than they have in it and waiting for October.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

luke strawwalker said:


> People suck... you can't please 'em no matter what you do... We quit messing with selling hay and doing custom work and just bale and feed our own... that way I don't have to mess with nobody.


I'm sorta to the same point Luke.. As the old saying goes, "The more I deal with people, the more I like my dog."


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

I still have my hay done by a Haying Contractor, and while I have used several different ones, the price has always been the same. $15 a bale for a 4 x 5.

I complain because I think the price is too high, and they complain that it is not enough, so by that i would say it is just about right.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

RuttedField said:


> I still have my hay done by a Haying Contractor, and while I have used several different ones, the price has always been the same. $15 a bale for a 4 x 5.
> 
> I complain because I think the price is too high, and they complain that it is not enough, so by that i would say it is just about right.


No way is that even close to a fair price. I'd never be able to take advantage of a person like that. You can't buy a decent roll of hay for less than $40. Pay that man a decent price cheapskate.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Dan_GA said:


> No way is that even close to a fair price. I'd never be able to take advantage of a person like that. You can't buy a decent roll of hay for less than $40. Pay that man a decent price cheapskate.


When I started off I was charging $13 a roll to cut, rake, and bale (5x5.5-6 rounds). Everybody else was charging around $18 a roll. I had a neighbor just up the road, did a big job for him, in a TIMELY MANNER, and he said I wasn't charging enough, and he paid me $15 a roll. That really got me thinking.

I charged $15 from then on, and there at the last I think I was charging $18, because fuel prices increased a lot and everybody else was charging $20 or up...

Now, rolling hay with a 30+ year old second generation round baler is NOT going to make anywhere near as dense or "pretty" of a bale as the BTO's running around with new(er) balers cranked all the way up. SO, I figured I should charge less because of that, and I did... BUT, OTOH, *I* ALWAYS strove to make the ABSOLUTE BEST *tip top* quality hay that I could possibly make out of a guy's patch he wanted me to bale... that started by 1) getting my @ss over there ASAP after he called me and asked me to bale for him (letting him control the 'timing' of the cut according to whether he was shooting for maximum quality or maximum yield, 2) getting it cut ASAP and then raking when it hit 50% moisture (wilted flat) to minimize sun bleaching and preserve leaves/quality while allowing it to dry to baling moisture in the windrow, 3) baling it as soon as it hit about 15% moisture to preserve maximum quality and good green color where possible, 4) discussing if there was anything that might be a factor in making good hay, ie weather forecasts or me having some other work I was doing in the field (like cotton spraying or cultivation or other hay jobs I was finishing) and allowing the owner to make up their own mind and tell me what THEY wanted me to do... 5) if there WAS an "unforeseen issue", ie afternoon thundershower that unexpectedly popped up and rinsed the hay, getting my butt over there ASAP and flipping the windrow as soon as the top had dried off thoroughly onto dry ground, to keep the hay on the bottom of the windrow in the best possible condition.

In the end, it comes down to a guy willing to work for what someone else is willing to pay. My neighbor DID teach me not to undervalue the work I was doing, despite the shortcomings of older equipment, because I saw PLENTY of the BTO's in the area who were content to be called to bale a patch for a guy, and then not show up for WEEKS after that... In fact I got called to bale a patch that had sat for a MONTH after the guy called his usual BTO to come bale it for him, and I was halfway through cutting the first patch when the BTO suddenly pulled up and started cutting the other patch over the fence that I was supposed to cut next. I didn't say anything-- figured it was up to the owner who hired me to talk to the guy as he saw fit. I figured the BTO saw me out there doing the job and figured if he wanted any of the money he better get his butt out of the big air conditioned diesel pickup and get over there and start cutting. I did my half of the job and he did "his half"... BUT, the difference was, that *I* raked the hay 24 hours later, and intended to bale the following evening when the hay dried sufficiently, but we got a pop up thundershower, so I drove the rake BACK over and flipped the windrows late that evening so they could dry out nicely, and had ANOTHER unexpected shower hit it the next day, and so I flipped the windrows later that evening AGAIN so it dried evenly, and baled the following afternoon once everything was dry and would store well in the bale without heating or damage. The BTO just left the hay laying flat for a week and then had the wife raking it up right ahead of the baler... the bales I made were bright and had good green color and smelled wonderful... the stuff he baled looked like old cardboard or wheat straw, sunbleached crap... and he charged $5 a roll more.

Oh well... to each his own...  OL J R


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## stilsonian (May 27, 2015)

In my area, non-contracted hay prices are around $120/ton for rounds (4x5.5), around $240-260/ton for squares of bermudagrass, and $330-350/ton for squares of perennial peanut hay. We sell about 15,000 squares annually non-contracted and 5,000 a year contracted (8-10% hit on price depending on the contract). We bale only a few hundred rounds and that's to keep some of the contracts happy, but they pay full price ($60 a round).

You always have the craigslist seller that pops up with $4 squares and $40 rounds of Ultra-High-Quality Horse Hay that has a record breaking RFQ and would make the folks in Ocala & Churchill Downs kill each other to get a bale. We weather those sellers because it's only a matter of time before they wake up on the price, or realize it's a negative return at that price. Most are using Daddy's tractor, borrowing a mower and paying to have it baled. That's profitable until something breaks, the equipment can't be borrowed anymore or the custom baler goes up in price or can't get to the hay before it rains. The longstanding hay farms around here (I'm in row-crop country, so there's not a lot of us hay guys) have lifelong customers, don't get in over their heads with equipment debt, and charge a fair price. It's a pretty easy recipe around here, but the customer variable sometimes requires delivery and travel (we deliver up to 2 hrs away and will occasionally take hay to Ocala, which is 3.5 hrs away). My theory is that if someone asked me to drive my truck around a parking lot for 7 hours for $3000-4000, I'd do it.....so why not deliver hay.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Dan_GA said:


> No way is that even close to a fair price. I'd never be able to take advantage of a person like that. You can't buy a decent roll of hay for less than $40. Pay that man a decent price cheapskate.


Dan, the way I read the post was that was the price to pay a contractor to cut/rake/bale, not the market price for a roll of hay.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

RockmartGA said:


> Dan, the way I read the post was that was the price to pay a contractor to cut/rake/bale, not the market price for a roll of hay.


Exactly. If a decent bale of hay sells for $40, $15 is too cheap. He probably demands it to be cut right when he calls too. Just like with the guys that sell "pure bermuda bales for $35," just a matter of time til they go under and he gets sticker shock from what it should actually cost him.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Dan_GA said:


> Exactly. If a decent bale of hay sells for $40, $15 is too cheap. He probably demands it to be cut right when he calls too. Just like with the guys that sell "pure bermuda bales for $35," just a matter of time til they go under and he gets sticker shock from what it should actually cost him.


That guy is up in your neck now huh......
Don't worry, he will realize, at some point, that he's just got to make more to turn a profit at that price


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

Dan_GA said:


> Exactly. If a decent bale of hay sells for $40, $15 is too cheap. He probably demands it to be cut right when he calls too. Just like with the guys that sell "pure bermuda bales for $35," just a matter of time til they go under and he gets sticker shock from what it should actually cost him.


A person should never make assumptions, either based on a persons behaviors (demands as you mention) nor the area. If multiple people charge $15 a bale in an area to cut/rake/bale, it would seem to me that is the going rate.

What I found is, the contractors do not care so much about charging me $15 a bale as they do in producing $40 bales of hay. What they say is, "but if I had those bales I could sell them and make $4000 instead of $1500." That is incorrect because they are not calculating what it costs for property taxes, fertilizer and lime. Not to mention tillage, rock removal and seeding down for the field initially, all costs the landowner is saddled with.

For some haying contractors paying them as I do works quite well for them, because in the midst of haying season when they have had so many expenses for fuel, twine and breakdowns, and suddenly they come to a field and are handed a big check immediately upon conclusion; that input to the bottom line is a nice infusion at the right time.

Ultimately counting other peoples money is a VERY poor practice because it ALWAYS seems the other person is getting the better end of the deal. This is not a monetary principal I have come up with, but is actually a parable in the bible and thus a biblical one.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

RuttedField said:


> A person should never make assumptions, either based on a persons behaviors (demands as you mention) nor the area. If multiple people charge $15 a bale in an area to cut/rake/bale, it would seem to me that is the going rate.
> 
> What I found is, the contractors do not care so much about charging me $15 a bale as they do in producing $40 bales of hay. What they say is, "but if I had those bales I could sell them and make $4000 instead of $1500." That is incorrect because they are not calculating what it costs for property taxes, fertilizer and lime. Not to mention tillage, rock removal and seeding down for the field initially, all costs the landowner is saddled with.
> 
> ...


Count your blessings then. $20 a bale won't make most contractors even think about leaving the driveway around here... and that's cut/ted/rake/bale only, and only if you're liming/fertilizing to the tune of 3 bales to the acre. Most have a clause where you get charged by the acre if you fail to produce a minimum amount of bales.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Just charge em $85 an acre to roll it.....$175 an acre to square, won't have many takers but I don't do it for the fun of it.....
We have the same kinda guys around here....personally I don't think they even know they're losing money, so who am I to let them in on the secret.....


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> Just charge em $85 an acre to roll it.....$175 an acre to square, won't have many takers but I don't do it for the fun of it.....
> We have the same kinda guys around here....personally I don't think they even know they're losing money, so who am I to let them in on the secret.....


Valid points indeed.


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

Dan_GA said:


> Count your blessings then. $20 a bale won't make most contractors even think about leaving the driveway around here... and that's cut/ted/rake/bale only, and only if you're liming/fertilizing to the tune of 3 bales to the acre. Most have a clause where you get charged by the acre if you fail to produce a minimum amount of bales.


Maybe that is the difference then. I had heard that due to topography, weather, climate, etc that New England has some of the best pastures/grassland in the world, and maybe it is true. I average 7 bales to the acre here. One field was down to 5 bales to the acre this year and I immediately sent in a soil sample to find out what is wrong. I have not got the result back yet so I cannot say what is going on, but this makes sense. If we get a much more dense sward here it would explain why a haying contractor could do it for $15 a bale.

But don't get me wrong either, to get that tonnage a farmer has to be on top of their game with lime, organic matter, and NPK. Lime has always been expensive here, but this year i found some for $22.50 a ton so I got some fields done at 3500 pounds to the acre. It is a never ending battle though trying to keep any one field from falling behind.

I actually just put together a Excel Spreadsheet that will hopefully allow me to stay on top of things better. You know, get the lime, and NPK on it BEFORE the yield suffers.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

There is a lot of difference Rutt....here we cut on 30 day schedules when weather allows  NPK after every cut and about 11-15tpa over three-four or five cuttings. It's a hectic schedule getting dry hay put up in the summer, I have my hands full with my own....don't need anyone else jumpin in the way, I will, if time allows....but it ain't gonna be cheap


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

Yeah Rutt... that makes sense now. Sorry if I offended you. Guess neither one of us were thinking in the regional differences mindset. I got nearly 4 bales to the acre off of my front field and thought I'd died and gone to heaven. That's after $1500 in NPK and $300 worth of spray (between all fields and front field accounts for about 1/3rd of my land). 3 bales to the acre is the goal here in GA. Not saying I'm "superfarmer," but we've had really good rain here this season. Almost too much to bale as I'm still doing 2nd cuttings and way behind.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Location location location.

Selling 1st cutting rounds that average 750-800lbs for $50/bale, they come and get it.

2nd cutting on starts at $75/bale, they come and get it.

Have a lot of 2-8 bale loads go out. Loaded two $75 bales this afternoon, got a crisp 100 and 50.


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

mlappin said:


> Location location location.
> 
> Selling 1st cutting rounds that average 750-800lbs for $50/bale, they come and get it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've sold a lot this week too. Think folks are starting to look at their barns and decide they don't have enough for the winter yet. Also, haven't seen the "4x5 pure bermuda bale for $35" guy on the local facebook ag page recently either.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

To actually bale?

$15/acre to mow
$7/acre to ted or rake for each pass. Multiple teddings to get last cutting dry? $7/acre each time.
$9/bale for round baling if I raked it with my rake, $12/bale if you rake it.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

mlappin said:


> Location location location.
> 
> Selling 1st cutting rounds that average 750-800lbs for $50/bale, they come and get it.
> 
> ...


We could only dream of those prices here.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Location location location.
> 
> Selling 1st cutting rounds that average 750-800lbs for $50/bale, they come and get it.
> 
> ...


Is that pure grass hay, pure alfalfa hay, or alfalfa/grass mix?

Regards, Mike


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

Dan_GA said:


> Yeah Rutt... that makes sense now. Sorry if I offended you. Guess neither one of us were thinking in the regional differences mindset. I got nearly 4 bales to the acre off of my front field and thought I'd died and gone to heaven. That's after $1500 in NPK and $300 worth of spray (between all fields and front field accounts for about 1/3rd of my land). 3 bales to the acre is the goal here in GA. Not saying I'm "superfarmer," but we've had really good rain here this season. Almost too much to bale as I'm still doing 2nd cuttings and way behind.


No, no, no...I really don't get offended much and talking about hay sure isn't going to do it!

Not sure about GA, but where I live in Maine, we have the poorest county is all of New England, so that was why I thought $15 a bale was low, but then someone said how many bales to the acre. But we also can only get two crops of hay here due to the short growing season. Chopped grass silage in a horizontal bunker we get 5, but real hay is only 2.


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## bulldogger (May 31, 2015)

How many charge a minimum price to show up and cut rake and round bale before the per bake price kicks in? If so what is you minimum?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

bulldogger said:


> How many charge a minimum price to show up and cut rake and round bale before the per bake price kicks in? If so what is you minimum?


The only time I believe the price to bale would be affected would be in a light crop.

If a person went to make hay on 10 acres and only averaged one roll per acre then he would be backing up. Even at $25 per roll it would be worth more than $250 to make hay out of 10 acres. Working by the hour would be the only fair way to guarantee a profit. Folks around here would never go for an hourly rate.

If you cut the same 10 acres at 3 rolls per acre and charged $20 per roll it would be $600.

You basically have three days tied up to make the hay at $200 per day. (I know it does not take all day, each day but you are still tied up to that one job)

If you cut 30 acres at 3 rolls per acre and charged $20 per roll then you take in $1,800 or $600 per day.

I would not give a volume discount.

I would set a minimum price per job. None off us can make hay and just try to break even.


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