# Loaded Gooseneck Question



## Tim/South

How much weight can a 7 ton gooseneck legally haul? If a person went on the scales what percentage of the load would be on the trailer axels and how much on the tow vehicle? Say it was a load of hay stacked evenly on the trailer.

Three locals are going to make a run to bring in some hay and the conversation came up about what they could legally haul.

One has a 7 ton trailer and will haul 14 rolls of hay.

The other has a 40 with two singles (did not hear the axel rating). The one with the 40 foot says he can legally haul a lot more than his trailer is rated because the load will be on the F550.

I never really thought about it until today.


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## Bonfire

What does the trailer weigh? 14,000 - trailer weight (tare) = net payload for the trailer.

The 40' with singles can only haul what it's rated at. Doesn't matter what's pulling it. If the trailer had dual tandems, that would be different. That would be more suited to an F550 grossing in combination around 30K. The truck should have a registered weight somewhere in that neighborhood to make it legal.

Find out if the 40' has bigger axles that maybe have load range H tires. Like 18 or 22 ply tires. IDK, can't remember what the specs on those tires are. If it has four 10 ply tires under it, 40' of hay overem could be pushing it.


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## JD3430

A true 7 ton gooseneck with 2 7K axles that weighs 4,000lbs should be able to haul about 12,800lbs if the full 20% allowable pin weight is put on the rear axle of the truck. 
14,000lbs x 20% pin weight = 2,800lbs, so 14,000+2,800 = 16,800. 
From the 16,800 you subtract trailer weight of 4,000, which is 12,800. So payload is 12,800lbs.

Now let's say you can only transfer 10% of pin weight to truck. Then payload would be: 
14,000lbs x10% pin weight = 1,400 lbs, so 14,000+1,400 = 15,400.
From the 15,400lbs subtract trailer weight of 4,000lbs which is 11,400lbs.
So payload with 10% pin weight is 11,400lbs.

Most guys figure about a 15% pin weight. That would be a payload of 12,100 lbs. 
payload of trailer depends on GVWR a of trailer, axle/tire ratings of trailer and pin weight transferred to rear axle of truck.
The trucks rear axle must be able to handle the pin weight as well.
I had a 14k GN with 2 7k axles that weighed 4,000 lbs. I hauled 15 850ib bales on it all the time.(12,750lbs of hay). I know I was right at the limit, so I always "front loaded" the bales to transfer maximum weight to my F550. It handles 3,000lb pin weight like it's not even there.


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## Fowllife

Bonfire has it right with one addition, pin weight. Just guessing at some number for the 14K would probably look like this.

14,000 capacity trailer - 4500 trailer weight = 9,500 capacity + 2,800 (20% pin weight) = 12,300 lbs of allowable hay weight. The total weight of the trailer & load would be over the 14k at 16,800, but if properly placed is still within the allowable limits with 7k per axle. But, it's also a combination weight so you "should" stay within your truck's ratings. A 3/4 ton with a diesel should be rated high enough for that in terms of pin (payload) rating & trailer rating. I think most gas motors are not rated that high though.

The guy with the 40' is probably right. It's hard to tell though without knowing the axles on the trailer. They could be 8k's which would be more typical, or they could be some kind of 10k,12k, or even 15k with a super single type setup. So it's hard tp guess what he can haul.


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## Fowllife

Well, JD is a little quicker at typing then me. He has the same answers though.


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## Teslan

Thanks guys for putting the pin weight info on here. We've discussed weights before on haytalk, but pin weights were never mentioned.


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## JD3430

Fowllife said:


> Well, JD is a little quicker at typing then me. He has the same answers though.


Great minds think alike!!!


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## JD3430

Teslan said:


> Thanks guys for putting the pin weight info on here. We've discussed weights before on haytalk, but pin weights were never mentioned.


Pin weight is just the amount of trailer weight borne by the truck. 
Here's a place you have to be careful: 
Some trailer manufacturers will build a "12k gooseneck", but it'll only have 2-10k axles. They assume that the 20% pin weight is included in their GVWR of the trailer. 
They kind of advertise in a grey area, but it's perfectly legal.

Key is to make sure you look at the trailer AXLE RATINGS and see if they add up to the GVWR. 
If not, the difference is usually the PIN weight.


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## Fowllife

Teslan said:


> Thanks guys for putting the pin weight info on here. We've discussed weights before on haytalk, but pin weights were never mentioned.


Yes, a lot of people never factor it in. It doesn't matter if you have a bumper pull or gooseneck, pin/tongue weight always needs to be accounted for to get maximum payload figured.

I could be wrong here, but I have always heard 25% MAX. pin weight on a gooseneck. Obviously you need a tow vehicle that can carry that much weight also.


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## slowzuki

Max pin weight on a GN or 5th, just the coupler/structural rating and the tow vehicles capacity which unless you are using a semi to tow, or its a light duty GN, probably won't be more than that 25% rule of thumb.



Fowllife said:


> Yes, a lot of people never factor it in. It doesn't matter if you have a bumper pull or gooseneck, pin/tongue weight always needs to be accounted for to get maximum payload figured.
> 
> I could be wrong here, but I have always heard 25% MAX. pin weight on a gooseneck. Obviously you need a tow vehicle that can carry that much weight also.


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## Teslan

JD3430 said:


> Pin weight is just the amount of trailer weight borne by the truck.
> Here's a place you have to be careful:
> Some trailer manufacturers will build a "12k gooseneck", but it'll only have 2-10k axles. They assume that the 20% pin weight is included in their GVWR of the trailer.
> They kind of advertise in a grey area, but it's perfectly legal.
> 
> Key is to make sure you look at the trailer AXLE RATINGS and see if they add up to the GVWR.
> If not, the difference is usually the PIN weight.


Yes my trailer has 10k axles and the GVWR is 24k. So I guess they are including the Pin weight in the GVWR. So I've always figured I could legally load about 20 800 lb bales on it since the trailer weighs about 7300 or so. It's a 25 foot trailer, but I see many guys with 35 foot trailers with the same axles really loading those trailers up with hay. I loaded one guys gooseneck with 40 bales last year. Not my problem though if he gets a ticket for overweight so I don't care. My truck is a GMC C6500 Topkick so I'm never really worried that it isn't enough.


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## JD3430

Teslan said:


> Yes my trailer has 10k axles and the GVWR is 24k. So I guess they are including the Pin weight in the GVWR. So I've always figured I could legally load about 20 800 lb bales on it since the trailer weighs about 7300 or so. It's a 25 foot trailer, but I see many guys with 35 foot trailers with the same axles really loading those trailers up with hay. I loaded one guys gooseneck with 40 bales last year. Not my problem though if he gets a ticket for overweight so I don't care. My truck is a GMC C6500 Topkick so I'm never really worried that it isn't enough.


Your trailer manufacturer included pin weight in the GVWR since your axles don't add up to your trailers GVWR. Whoever built your trailer is pushing the pin weight to 20%.
Your load capacity is 24,000 GVWR - 7,300 trailer weight which is 16,700 lbs. of payload. Otherwise, you could be overloading your trailers axles or tires, or whatever is the weaker link. So yes, 20) 800lb bales is fine.
If you had the same trailer rated at 24K with 12k axles, you could then add 10-20% more pin weight, effectively raising the GVWR to 26,400-28,800 lbs and the payload to ~19,100 (10% pin) to ~21,500 (20% pin).

Loading the other guys trailer way over its weight could become partly your problem if he gets into a serious accident. The "judge" of the case may ask "who owns the bales?" If they were yours and you loaded 40) 800lb bales (32,000 lbs) on a woefully underspeced trailer and truck, you could share the blame.
Id doubt it would ever happen, but you know how lawsuits work-they drag anyone within 100' of what happened into court and name all of them litigants.


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## YODA

Most GN's have a pin weight of 25% of the load. To be sure visit you local scale. This is what my particular situation is.

For my F350 dually I have the following. Rear axle is 8250lbs GAWR, front is 5200lbsGAWR. Truck max GVWR is 11500. My 23'GN PJ trailer GVWR was 15680 - combined total gross was 27,180 . DOT said I was OK for farm use (hauling hay), but if I went to do something not farm related in the eyes of DOT like hauling equipment, I could get in trouble, so de-rating was the solution. I de-rated the trailer to 14K - just the sticker changed, not the trailer. It has 2-7K axles.

My dry pin weight on my 23' PJ GN is 1230lbs (trailer weight is 4920lbs) so 25% to the front on the dry unit. This was from PJ trailers

Rear dry axle load on my truck is about 4000 lbs fueled with me and tool box in it per the scales. It is rated to haul a 4500 lb like a camper, so the scale weights were is about right. The 20% and 25% loading rule is for a uniform load, or a load split over the trailer axles. Once you move the load forward, it becomes more of a point load and can quickly overload the pin weight at your truck.

So in a nut shell I can handle a pin weight of roughly 4250 lbs. Less dry pin weight leaves additional live load on the pin of 4250-1230 = 3,020 lbs. so a uniform hay load of 12080 can be put on the trailer and not exceed my truck rear axle weight ....except the trailer weight is 4920, putting me at 17000 combined, or even over the original 15680 GVWR. So the actual uniform load I can carry is 1320 less for the original rating, or 3000 less for my current rating.

For point load like a piece of equipment, If I put the 9K load in front of the trailer axles,1/2 goes to the truck so I was overloading the rear axle. Moving the load back over the trailer axles put more weight on the trailer, thus less on the truck.The scale I used was at my local COOP and they were happy to take the time to figure things out with me. They said they typically see over 60% of the farmers that use their scales with a GN are overloaded either on the trailer or truck as it is very easy to get the load distribution wrong.The trick for me was to watch my helper springs. If they just made contact I was good, full compressed contact and I was over weight on my truck.

Remember when doing the numbers, you need to take into account what your truck weight is empty and axle loading, then know your dry pin weight, and then place you equipment or hay loading accordingly.

I am no expert on this, but hope it helps.


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