# Inconsistent Bale size with New Holland BC5070



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

I have struggled with an inconsistent bale size ever since I purchased my BC5070 baler. The dealer kept saying it was the wind row and gave a multitude of reasons for the problem. For example baling too slow, too fast, grass vs alfalfa, and on and on. I was having knotter issues and was riding the baler watching the knotters when I noticed that the arm that determines the bale length and trips the knotters was bouncing off the adjustment bolt. Sometimes it would bounce as much as a 1/4 inch to not at all. I wrapped my wife's exercise weight on the arm and just finished baling 600 bales of hay. The arm doesn't bounce any longer and my bale size was all but perfect.

I use a Kuhns accumulator therefore bale length is critical and the difference that this weight made was unbelievable.

NH changed this design on the 570 and 575 models and I owned a 575 and had the same issue. I think we need to forget all the talk about windrow uniformity, strokes per bale (SPB), and tell NH to put a heavier arm on or put a weight on the arm. Try it you won't believe it. I was baling second cutting alfalfa and went every speed I had all the way up to 7 SPB and the bale size didn't vary.

Wondering if anyone else has tried this?

I even bought bale skis attempting to fix the issue prior to adding the weight and didn't fix the problem.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

tkaffenbarger said:


> I have struggled with an inconsistent bale size ever since I purchased my BC5070 baler. The dealer kept saying it was the wind row and gave a multitude of reasons for the problem. For example baling too slow, too fast, grass vs alfalfa, and on and on. I was having knotter issues and was riding the baler watching the knotters when I noticed that the arm that determines the bale length and trips the knotters was bouncing off the adjustment bolt. Sometimes it would bounce as much as a 1/4 inch to not at all. I wrapped my wife's exercise weight on the arm and just finished baling 600 bales of hay. The arm doesn't bounce any longer and my bale size was all but perfect.
> 
> I use a Kuhns accumulator therefore bale length is critical and the difference that this weight made was unbelievable.
> 
> ...


Interesting....


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

can you take a pic of what you did and post?


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

Tried posting a pic but it didn't work. is there a special way to post pictures?


----------



## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I have never done anything about it, but I have seen the bounce also and wondered how much difference it would make. It only bounces when the trip arm drops during tying and hits the stop plate. I will keep your solution in mind in the future.

By the way, I think the newer setup is better than the older version with the fine roller and trip arm which wore unevenly. To each his own I guess.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

On all the New Holland balers we owned they were only inconsistent when we were trying to make light bales and not enough pressure in the in the bale chamber .


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

photo 7




__
tkaffenbarger


__
Jul 13, 2014


__
bale length








This is the picture of the weight.

With bale skis and the Kuhn Accumulator you can't make a light bale! I have a hydraulic down pressure and had it completely off for this cutting and still making a 3 ft bale that is 60 pounds. You could play a tune on the twine strings! I am not saying every bale is perfectly the same as you will always have the inconsistency due to the timing requirements of the baler, but there is no bounce and the bales length inconsistency was gone.

I agree that this new design is easy, I just think they need to make it heavier or something to get rid of the bounce.

Note I put tie wraps on each end to keep it from moving.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Our 276 had a adjustable clamp on the the end of the arm, when it dropped back down the stop came to rest against the wheel. Maybe try gluing a piece of rubber to the stop bolt? Or maybe make another one out of a rubber bumper of some sort.


----------



## Guest (Jul 13, 2014)

Move that bolt back that controls your bale length. To about where that wieght is. Thatll solve ur problem


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mike10 said:


> I have never done anything about it, but I have seen the bounce also and wondered how much difference it would make. It only bounces when the trip arm drops during tying and hits the stop plate. I will keep your solution in mind in the future.
> 
> By the way, I think the newer setup is better than the older version with the fine roller and trip arm which wore unevenly. To each his own I guess.


Yeah, I don't care much for the fine gear and trip arm either. Someday I'm converting my 570 to 575/5070 style.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Interesting post. We used to have a NH 580 and still have a NH BC5080. The BC5080 has the trip arm just like you have pictured. I wouldn't think NH would really make that different on a larger baler. I can't remember if the 580 was exactly the same or not as the 5080. It was the same style though. However the 580 always made a very consistent bale with regard to length. We always noticed the 5080 was a bit more inconsistent with length. Haven't used the 5080 in nearly 2 years and in fact this week we are saying goodbye to it so it doesn't really matter. I never noticed that arm bouncing, but I never looked either as I was always stacking the hay and kinda grumbling to myself why my dad couldn't keep the bale lengths right.


----------



## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Interesting....


To say the least.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Did you try adjusting the bolts in the slotted holes that mount the star wheel bracket to bale case? Not saying this would work but curious.


----------



## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

our local dealer moves that bolt back before delivery


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

Moving the star wheel will have nothing to do with the bale consistency as when the arm drops the arm is not agains the notched wheel due to the knotter moves the arm away. The moving of the star just puts more or less pressure on the arm while it is metering.

I will have to look at the bolt to see how it can be moved. That might help.

The other interesting thing that was found when I was having knotter problems, the dealer came out and checked the physical timing of the baler. The timing marks on the baler for the plunger and needles was off from the factory by about 2 links on the chain on the flywheel. He said that this was the third baler that was delivered to them that timing was wrong from the factory. Therefor now the timing marks on the baler are off by more than an inch.


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

I looked at moving the bolt and I would have to weld a new tab and lock nut in a new place. The entire mechanism is welded on where they (New Holland) intended it to be. One shouldn't have to do this to a brand new baler.

I have contacted my dealer and sent pictures of the difference in the bale lengths as well as the weight that is posted here. He is going to contact New Holland and see what they have to say.

I will let you know what he finds out if he/they get back to me.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

tkaffenbarger said:


> Moving the star wheel will have nothing to do with the bale consistency as when the arm drops the arm is not agains the notched wheel due to the knotter moves the arm away. The moving of the star just puts more or less pressure on the arm while it is metering.
> 
> I will have to look at the bolt to see how it can be moved. That might help.
> 
> The other interesting thing that was found when I was having knotter problems, the dealer came out and checked the physical timing of the baler. The timing marks on the baler for the plunger and needles was off from the factory by about 2 links on the chain on the flywheel. He said that this was the third baler that was delivered to them that timing was wrong from the factory. Therefor now the timing marks on the baler are off by more than an inch.


I hope you were able to mark where the real timing marks should be.


----------



## yarnammurt (Jan 1, 2014)

I am having the same problem,. I have a 575 and for the life of me I cant get consistent bales. I have tried the speed think slow, very slow, fast and nothing helps. I cut with a 7' haybine I have put 2 rolls, 3rolls, together and still cant get it right. I will try anything at this point.


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

The 575 has the exact same configuration as the 5070 so try it and you will like it. My dealer said that he was going to look at the clamp for the old style and maybe we could put in on the meter arm so that it would never touch, but would act as a weight. Just another idea. I know from experience the weight on the arm made the difference, so try it and you will like it!


----------



## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I will have to try that one that is a good idea my question is how much weight did you put on it? If it quits raining I will try it


----------



## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Brand new 5070 hayliner makes bales with 5" variation. No big deal if hand bombing but a frigging mess when hauling with a balewagon. Thanks for the fix.


----------



## Guest (Jul 16, 2014)

tkaffenbarger said:


> I looked at moving the bolt and I would have to weld a new tab and lock nut in a new place. The entire mechanism is welded on where they (New Holland) intended it to be. One shouldn't have to do this to a brand new baler.
> 
> I have contacted my dealer and sent pictures of the difference in the bale lengths as well as the weight that is posted here. He is going to contact New Holland and see what they have to say.
> 
> I will let you know what he finds out if he/they get back to me.


You are correct. U need to make a simple tab and weld it to the baler with a nut on it but it will do wonders. Think about the stock placement of that bolt... up front very small variations of the bolt hieght will make a huge difference because it has a shorter difference to mesure the bale. If u move it towards the back it has a larger area to messure the bale making small variations less noticible. Hard to explain. Hopefully makes more sense


----------



## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Great post. I have a BC-5060 baler which is the same baler but smaller width on the pickup. I have the same problem with the bale lengths which is important as I use a New Holland Stackliner. I also have knotter problems this year but did not for the first three years. Knotter will leave the left hand side twine attached to a bale and then the next one or two bales will banana apart on the side without any twine. Never had that problem until I took it to the dealership to have the knives sharpened and shims adjusted. Don't know if that is a coincidence or the mechanic adjusted something during the overall service. Baler doesn't do it all the time, seems to be when there is a larger volume or wad going through the chamber. Please keep us posted on what you find out from the factory on the bouncing issue.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

enos said:


> Brand new 5070 hayliner makes bales with 5" variation. No big deal if hand bombing but a frigging mess when hauling with a balewagon. Thanks for the fix.


a 5 " variation is 4.5" to much variation.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Turbo, I have thought about taking my MF/Hesston 1839 into a dealership this winter and have them just go over it for preventive maintenance....also install some new twine knives. But my conscious tells me no....for the reasons you have stated. I think I will just install the twine knives myself.

Regards, Mike


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Vol said:


> Turbo, I have thought about taking my MF/Hesston 1839 into a dealership this winter and have them just go over it for preventive maintenance....also install some new twine knives. But my conscious tells me no....for the reasons you have stated. I think I will just install the twine knives myself.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Reminds me of my last ever trip to tires plus. I had a spare on. And it was in the same place before I dropped it off as when I picked it up. Did I mention I asked for a tire rotation? They offered to put it up on the rack and fix immediately. I said no. I will take my money back. And never again go to that kind of place which obviously does not care about attention to detail. Cheapest is almost always worst.


----------



## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

I think you all are about to talk me out of a NH 5070 to replace my JD348. I don't like that metering set up. I have been looking at a Massey but they changed up models. I was looking at an 1839.


----------



## Garf (Jul 6, 2014)

tkaffenbarger said:


> This is the picture of the weight.
> 
> With bale skis and the Kuhn Accumulator you can't make a light bale! I have a hydraulic down pressure and had it completely off for this cutting and still making a 3 ft bale that is 60 pounds. You could play a tune on the twine strings! I am not saying every bale is perfectly the same as you will always have the inconsistency due to the timing requirements of the baler, but there is no bounce and the bales length inconsistency was gone.
> 
> ...


Ha! I've been having the same problem with bale lengths and this makes good sense! I'm going to try that. OBTW, how much weight did you add?? Garf.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

gradyjohn said:


> I think you all are about to talk me out of a NH 5070 to replace my JD348. I don't like that metering set up. I have been looking at a Massey but they changed up models. I was looking at an 1839.


I have no want nor need for a square baler. That being said I read most posts on here about them. My conclusion is this:

Some are loyal to green. Some loyal to red. And the ones who just want the best baler for productivity and reliability regardless of color buy the massey inline. That's just what I have inferred from reading here.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

gradyjohn said:


> I think you all are about to talk me out of a NH 5070 to replace my JD348. I don't like that metering set up. I have been looking at a Massey but they changed up models. I was looking at an 1839.


Ya, I think the design is so similar, I liked my old new holland, I like the 348.....but I believe the Hesston inline is the way to go....don't put ya to sleep like the others! But it is a very good baler and the fact that it doesn't sit off to the side is a real advantage to me....


----------



## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

I bought the 5060 instead of the JD 348 for a variety of reasons. I put over 12000 bales through my 5060 with almost zero problems so I'm not unhappy with my baler. I has a couple of issues that I hope to tweak before I go changing colors on balers. I'm a JD guy but that doesn't mean I am blindly loyal to a certain color. I did get a great price on the baler...bought a new baler several thousand dollars cheaper than I could a JD 348 without any warranty. I suspect the JD 348 is a very good baler but It likely also has some issues you will have to deal with, just a hunch.


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

The weight was about 2 pounds. I think 1 pound would work. My question is how can New Holland not know about this if all of us are having the same issue. I also agree that when using the accumulator the inconsistent bale size is a pain and just doesn't work well.

Back to jturbo10's comment on the knotter issue. That sounds like a timing issue. If you chains have stretched and they tightened them it could have put your plunger vs your needles out of time (physical time) just enough that the plunger is leaving the chamber too soon prior to the knot being tied. The other issue could be that the baler was not timed correctly from the factory like mine.


----------



## covenanthay (Oct 2, 2009)

Here is a picture of the change make to our 5070.





  








Bale Size




__
covenanthay


__
Jul 18, 2014


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Several yrs back JD added a spring(parts key 4) to bale measuring arm to make bales more consistent in length. Another thing that can cause inconsistent bale length especially in rough ground is too much air pressure in flywheel side tire. One might add a spring to the NH measuring mechanism. But yes the added weight helps also.


----------



## kfhanson (Jan 20, 2014)

Drill a hole in the metering arm and the bale chamber and put a spring between the metering arm and bale chamber. It cures your problem without tying a weight to the trip arm.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

It really surprises me to read about how many of you have had problems with the bale length on your 5070s. I have had a 5070 hayliner for 3 years now......that is the first and only square baler that I have personally ran myself.....unless I over feed the baler or run a big slug of hay through it the bale lenght is quite consistent. When I switched over to a rotary rake the bale consistency got almost perfect even if I was over feeding the baler. Last year I was racing to beat the incoming rain and really pushed the baler......had bales that had only 7-8 flakes and the bales were still surprisingly consistent all things considered.....this was in rotary raked sorghum sudan. I really think the consistency of the windrow of a rotary rake makes a big difference in bale lenght consistency.


----------



## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

We've had at least 4 5070's and about 8 or so 575's and I have never seen that problem on them. I just can't see what would cause the arm to bounce up and down. Do have a lot of play between the arm and the teeth on that gear? I think ours are pretty tight. Either way the spring will take care of that. I think that Cline has the answer for most conditions - an even roll will make even bales. A roll that's lumpy, or inconsistent will give you horrible bales.

Rodney


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Fantastic the way farmers provide simple practical solutions to problems that the manufacturers/engineers do not see or want to know about. And great to have this forum to share the solutions with other farmers.


----------



## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Wife didn't want to loan me any of her workout weights to put on my NH 5060 square baler trip arm to help stabilize it so it took a do all tool, a heavy vice grip to the end of the trip arm. Just put up about a thousand bales with a very consistent size and weight for my bale wagon. Could just leave the vice grip on the arm but considering attaching two shaped pieces of heavy metal about the weight of the vice grip. Will drill two holes into the arm and metal weights for attachment which will also allow for weight adjustment. Amazing how something so simple can cure an annoying problem.


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

My dealer came out the other day and had made a bracket to move the screw back. Very similar to a post that was pot on this forum. I will see if it works. I hear what everyone says about the uniform windrows, but that isn't the issue. It is an engineering issue. I still believe New Holland has the best baler, they just need to be responsive to issues and not blame every problem on the windrow size and uniformity. What I'm finding is there isn't anyone around anymore that understands small square balers, hinge lack of service.


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

tkaffenbarger said:


> This is the picture of the weight.
> 
> With bale skis and the Kuhn Accumulator you can't make a light bale! I have a hydraulic down pressure and had it completely off for this cutting and still making a 3 ft bale that is 60 pounds. You could play a tune on the twine strings! I am not saying every bale is perfectly the same as you will always have the inconsistency due to the timing requirements of the baler, but there is no bounce and the bales length inconsistency was gone.
> 
> ...


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Additionally, I almost never run my baler at 540. I adjust the pto speed to match the windrow size and ground speed to give me about 10 slices per bale (listening to the plunger and hearing the knotters tie.

That entails opening the window and turning down the CD....lol


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

tkaffenbarger said:


> This is the picture of the weight.
> 
> With bale skis and the Kuhn Accumulator you can't make a light bale! I have a hydraulic down pressure and had it completely off for this cutting and still making a 3 ft bale that is 60 pounds. You could play a tune on the twine strings! I am not saying every bale is perfectly the same as you will always have the inconsistency due to the timing requirements of the baler, but there is no bounce and the bales length inconsistency was gone.
> 
> ...


I'm going to go with your idea but instead of an athetic weight, I took a piece of hot rolled plate 1.5": thick x 5" long, slot milled a recess down the center and drilled and tapped one 'leg' for winged screws. That way I can move it to where it does the most good or just leave it where I put it and I rattle canned it NH red. I thought about adding a light spring instead but that might impact the bales size even more.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Dragging up an old post.... I am having the same problem with my 575 and I compared it to a newer 5070 and noticed that my trip arm is smooth where it contacts the pressure wheel and on the 5070 the trip arm is serrated to match the teeth on the inside of the wheel. Can anyone advise if mine is wore out and needs to have the serrated arm or if this is an upgrade in engineering and mine never had it to begin with? I bought the baler used last year with only approximately 40k bales through it.


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Hi Wheatridge farmMD

You have not detailed the inconsistencies.

Are there only standard and over-length bales, if so it is a metering arm problem where the metering arm is either slipping on the metering wheel at random points in the quadrant OR

The metering arm is getting stuck at the last point before tripping.

The 570 and 575 came out with serrated bale trip arms to match the teeth on the metering wheel.

Other NH balers had very very fine teeth on the metering wheel and smooth trip arm quadrant. The teeth on this type of metering wheel were like a very fine file whereas the teeth on the 570/575 were more like a small cog clearly matching the pitch of the serrations on the trip arm quadrant.

I had a 570 with over 100K bales and the teeth were still like new with very little wear.

The other "smooth" when worn tended to have a very worn spot just at the lower portion of the trip arm which caused the trip arm to not bounce over the cotton reel part of the metering wheel but just slip and cause long bales, sometimes up to double length.

However if the inconsistent length is shorter than standard then I suggest the problem is with metering arm bounce either because the spring has failed or is too weak. the solution is the addition of weights as outlined in the earlier posts on this topic or upgrading the spring.

In any case I would seriously look at replacing the metering arm with a serrated one that matches the pitch of the serrations on the metering wheel. A new metering wheel may also be worthwhile to ensure that the pitch of the two sets of serrations match. With wear the pitch of cogs alters and replacing only one of a set results in mismatch.

Good luck in finding a solution.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't know about the differences between balers here and "down under" but the metering setup on my 570 is not the same as a 575.


----------



## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The first models of the 565 570 575 used the fine toothed roller and smooth arm. When they went to the vertical bale length stop is when the went to the toothed design of the arm and roller.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Sorry I failed to mention that the bales are shorter. After one of my "in-field" customers called and stated that the bales were getting too short to stack properly on her trailer I stopped and looked at a few and measured them. The baler is set for 36" bales for stackwagon, and the ones in the field were anywhere from 32-36 inches and some appeared to be shorter from the tractor but I never measured them. I guess I will order a new arm and metering wheel to match and see if the notches help with this problem. Unless you all think the weight would fix the problem just the same and cheaper.

Thanks


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

The earlier posts identify metering arm bounce as the cause of shorter bales.

Since the inconsistent bales are shorter I suggest you try the addition of a weight for a start. It is a low-cost and low-tech option and if it solves the problem great. If not you can still replace parts seeking a cure for the short bales.


----------



## tkaffenbarger (Jul 13, 2014)

The weight works great and I would agree with going with that route first prior to replacement parts. I try to have at least 12-15 strokes per bale rather than 10. I vary speed to do this. I don't vary pro speed to accomplish this. If you have more strokes per bale it makes any remaining inconsistencies less. I put some wheel weights on the arm this spring to take some of the weight off and the bale consistency has been very good so far. The sad thing was I was at a NH sponsored hay clinic this spring and they knew of the issue and said they had no plans to resolve it by changing the design of the baler. That is a bit concerning. Have a great haying season.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Dragging this post back up. Replaced the trip arm and metering wheel with matching toothed new parts. Spring is tight, windrows are doubled up NH rotary rake rows pretty consistent. Baler set for 36 inches getting bales that are anywhere from 12-44 inches in length. I ended up borrowing a new 5070 hayliner to finish first cut. I am completely at a loss for what is wrong. Bales good bales just wrong lengths.

Ben


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Did you replace the bushing in the trip arm?


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Local dealer adds a light spring pulling down on trip arm to any baler with customer complaints. I would also move stop as far back as possible.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

SVFHAY said:


> Local dealer adds a light spring pulling down on trip arm to any baler with customer complaints. I would also move stop as far back as possible.


I would agree these are good ideas but do you think a problem with bales as short as 12" is merely factory trip arm bounce? It sounds like something is actually wrong to me.


----------



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> Dragging this post back up. Replaced the trip arm and metering wheel with matching toothed new parts. Spring is tight, windrows are doubled up NH rotary rake rows pretty consistent. Baler set for 36 inches getting bales that are anywhere from 12-44 inches in length. I ended up borrowing a new 5070 hayliner to finish first cut. I am completely at a loss for what is wrong. Bales good bales just wrong lengths.
> 
> Ben


I had a problem with my JD 348 doing this. The problem was the flared discs that are on either side of the serrated wheel - that whole assy was shifted a tad to one side and compounding it, the star wheel shaft was slightly out of square as it was bolted to the bale case. The net result was the trip arm was binding and would prevent the trip arm from falling. JD uses shims to center the star wheel assy, so adjusting center on that was easy as was loosening the star wheel shaft and moving it in it's adjustment slots to square. Trip arm freely falls now - every time.

Don't know how the NH is constructed, but should be similar.

Good luck,
Bill


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> I would agree these are good ideas but do you think a problem with bales as short as 12" is merely factory trip arm bounce? It sounds like something is actually wrong to me.


your right.12" is an early trip or trip arm isn't falling the whole way to start with.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Check air pressure in LH tire. I've seen LH tire at too high pressure causing baler to bounce hard in rough field conditions.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

SVFHAY said:


> your right.12" is an early trip or trip arm isn't falling the whole way to start with.


So maybe the trip arm is too tight to the metering wheel?


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> So maybe the trip arm is too tight to the metering wheel?


or not square.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> Check air pressure in LH tire. I've seen LH tire at too high pressure causing baler to bounce hard in rough field conditions.


interesting. I was thinking the dog on the knotter drive barely catching and releasing too early. Both causes may give same result.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

SVFHAY said:


> interesting. I was thinking the dog on the knotter drive barely catching and releasing too early. Both causes may give same result.


I have adjusted that at the recommendation of dealer via phone. Temporarily fixed the problem for a few bales may still be releasing early I am not sure.


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> I have adjusted that at the recommendation of dealer via phone. Temporarily fixed the problem for a few bales may still be releasing early I am not sure.


This is were a 'great' dealer service manager is golden. Can you get them to come out and look / adjust / recommend while you are baling? There can be a lot of variables to consider.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> I have adjusted that at the recommendation of dealer via phone. Temporarily fixed the problem for a few bales may still be releasing early I am not sure.


How few? Few enough that it could have been a coincidence or was it enough to seem related?

Still wondering if you changed the trip arm bushing when you changed the arm.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> How few? Few enough that it could have been a coincidence or was it enough to seem related?
> 
> Still wondering if you changed the trip arm bushing when you changed the arm.


It lasted for about the last 50-60 bales first day and first 200 bales the second day. Almost as if when it gets "warmed-up" it causes the issue.

Are you referring to the bushing on the bolt where the trip arm connects to knotter assembly?

I am waiting for the dealer to get caught up on all the other "problematic balers" they have had this year and to have more to bale, but they will be coming out to look and ride


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Yes, that bushing.


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> Yes, that bushing.


No I did not think to change it. What kind of problem would that cause?


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> No I did not think to change it. What kind of problem would that cause?


If the bushing is worn it will allow the trip arm to jump on the toothed wheel, even though they are brand new.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> If the bushing is worn it will allow the trip arm to jump on the toothed wheel, even though they are brand new.


Ok inquiring minds must ask? If measuring wheel arm is having spring pressure applied by trip dog lock out mechanism how is worn bushing going to let trip arm jump on teeth with said pressure being applied to measuring arm?

Thanks,Jim


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> Ok inquiring minds must ask? If measuring wheel arm is having spring pressure applied by trip dog lock out mechanism how is worn bushing going to let trip arm jump on teeth with said pressure being applied to measuring arm?
> Thanks,Jim


Because there isn't a spring directly on the arm from the factory. Yes, there is pressure from the spring you're taking about but a worn bushing and a bump in the field during a tie cycle can still create inconsistent results. I know you recognize that bouncing can mess up the process (considering your tire pressure comment) so I don't think it should come as a surprise that a worn part with less bounce could have the same effect.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Jeez sorry for asking as I was just trying to help OP.. I attempted to view BC5070 parts catalog to inspect measuring arm but couldn't find measuring arm schematic. Yes I'm very familiar with rough fields & bouncing measuring arms BUT on sq balers that I'm more familiar with than NH the measuring arm has enough spring tension that it takes some real grunt to manually pull measuring arm back & up to cycle knotter/needles and replacing a worn bushing in measuring arm won't stop irregular length bales on balers I'm famailiar with. IMHO sq baler knotter/needle operation is very similar between brands.

Have a nice day,Jim


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

wheatridgefarmMD said:


> Dragging this post back up. Replaced the trip arm and metering wheel with matching toothed new parts. Spring is tight, windrows are doubled up NH rotary rake rows pretty consistent.


I note from Mike 10's post #47 above, that the first of the 570/575 balers were equipped with the smooth metering wheel/arm combo and when NH changed to the "vertical bale length stop" they changed to the toothed variety of metering wheel and arm. Your machine appears to have been an earlier version by implication without a vertical bale length stop. When you replaced the metering arm and wheel with the newer style toothed variety, did you fit the "vertical bale length stop"?

In regard to metering arm spring tension; JD has much more spring tension on the metering arm than NH.

That variation of 12 to 42 inches is enormous and sounds like there could be more than one issue contributing to the variation. Usually over-length bales have one suite of causes and under length have another set of unique causes.

Back to some basics.

It may be worth checking that the hay dogs are all present and operating correctly.

It may also be worth checking that there are at least two wedges in the bale chute, one each side at the entrance of the chute.

Does the new metering wheel have the small protruding bolt (usually more like a rivet with a domed head) on the side toward the end with the quadrant?

This little bolt is what allows the metering arm to trip consistently when that bolt rides over the discs on the metering wheel.

If that is in place then, I suggest having someone drive and you watch he operation of the measuring arm and make sure it is:

1) dropping down to the stop after tripping;

2) is not slipping on the metering wheel during bale ; andformation;

3) is clearing the discs on the metering wheel at the end of bale formation; and

4) the knotter dog is not releasing prematurely on short bales.

Happy diagnosing


----------



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Another thing to check. Again referencing a JD baler, but NH should be similar. When the knotted cycles, there is a cam that rotates and at a point in the cycle, the profile of the cam pushes the trip arm to the rear effectively disengaging the trip arm serrated edges and the mating wheel that drives it up as the bale is being made. Once disengaged, the trip arm should free fall to the stop as the knotter cycles. At this extreme point on the knotter cam (maybe trip arm cam is a better word), the clearance between the serrated trip arm edge and its mating wheel should be about 1/16 inch - enough to permit that free fall of the trip arm. IMHO - the ONLY purpose in the 4 slots where the star wheel assy is bolted to the bale case is to allow this adjustment. BTW the trip arm on my old New Holland 68 has no spring to yank the trip arm downward or keep it from bouncing. The trip arm, on its pivot, is as loose as an old hinge. It's been free falling as it should for some 58 years now. I think you're close.

Deere and I suspect New Holland recommends tripping the knitters and rotating them until you get to this extreme part of the cam profile where the trip arm is physically pushed by the cam furtherest to the rear. If the trip arm is still making contact with its mating serrated wheel at that point, an adjustment to the star wheel assy via those 4 slots where it is bolted to the bale case is req'd - moving it to get that 1/16 inch clearance. If there is no further adjustment, it is likely (rare IMHO) that the cam surface is worn and would need to be replaced.

I know you have a NH baler, but go to JD's web site and reference the online manual for the 348 baler on this trip arm adjustment. There is some great pics and text on setting the trip arm.

Hope this helps.

Bill


----------



## wheatridgefarmMD (Sep 14, 2008)

Fixed it! Still keeping my fingers crossed but baled 200+ bales of rye straw yesterday. Replaced the bushing as referenced above as well as the stop paw/trip arm pad and metering arm spring, no luck. Found that the metering arm wasnt falling all the way every time when I finally had someone else to run the baler while I watched. Tinkered with the star wheel location in reference to the trip arm and metering wheel and moved it forward about 1/4 of an inch and viola going strong ever since. Thanks for the help


----------



## lfc (Jun 23, 2010)

Interesting! My new BC5060 (which doesn't have the same trip arm bouncing issue as the BC5070) started spitting out short bales this year. As a quick fix based on this thread, I taped a chunk of shafting to the trip arm to make it through the day, which seemed to help. In watching the trip arm cycle, I noticed that it seemed to pause about half way down its fall for a split second. Adjusted the position of the star wheel that night according to the manual, but no way near 1/4". It seems to bale fine now, but still looks like it pauses a slight amount so I guess I'll try moving it a little more as you did. Thanks for the update.


----------



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

lfc said:


> Interesting! My new BC5060 (which doesn't have the same trip arm bouncing issue as the BC5070) started spitting out short bales this year. As a quick fix based on this thread, I taped a chunk of shafting to the trip arm to make it through the day, which seemed to help. In watching the trip arm cycle, I noticed that it seemed to pause about half way down its fall for a split second. Adjusted the position of the star wheel that night according to the manual, but no way near 1/4". It seems to bale fine now, but still looks like it pauses a slight amount so I guess I'll try moving it a little more as you did. Thanks for the update.


On my JD348, the shaft of the star wheel was slightly out of square (via mounting slots) with the trip arm and the clam shells that captured it - binding the trip arm on the way down, hence short bales. In my case, they were consistent 16 inch long bales - LOL. Fixed that and also reversed the shim on the knurled wheel (centering it on the trip arm) and it works great now.


----------

