# Thoughts on moisture meter....



## drifter106 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stumbled onto this site and made me think about checking what other people have to say....

Have been around haying for a few years (alfalfa 5 yrs) and farming row crops all my life. Just wandering, after doing some reading, what your thoughts are on using a meter for testing the moisture content on hay. I have always gone by sight and the"twist". On a day when the weather is right...cut in the morning and putting it up before the sun goes down. Granted, I am wondering if I am missing something here by not using the technology. I for one am always on the "give it a little more sun" to be safe from spoilage.

Thoughts? Or am I stewing over nothing....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Moisture meters are great....would not be without one since I have used them.

As far as cutting and baling the same day, I have never experienced that....and I am glad that I haven't because if it was that way here, the market would be flooded with hay. The more difficult it is to make hay, the better it is for my business. I will persevere....most of my competition will not.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Welcome to the forum drifter.....Ifn your making hay for horses, it's tough to do it without a meter. It's tough to tell whether it's 14% and 17% and that can be a difference between prime hay and substandard hay. If rolling rounds for the cattle market, I probably wouldn't take mine out of the box and would opt for the twist method every time.......
I have never been able to cut and bale in the same day.....once got it down to 16-17% but that's a no go for me.......that's when the meter is invaluable. Hth


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Meters can be a valuable tool, but I'm of the opinion that you should use your experience to guide you until you get used to what the meter is telling you. If you check the hay and think it's good to bale, watch what the moisture % is on the meter and go from there. Eventually, you can use the meter to let you know what the hay is like and just check it by hand to confirm.

The biggest shock I had when I started to use a meter was how much the moisture % will change as you move through the field. It can vary quite a bit sometimes.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Welcome the HT Drifter!

Something you may want to do is search the site, as there has been a lot of discussion on moisture meters. The HT search engine is a bit antiquated. I find it best to go to google do a search and typically HT comes up! Then just jump to the thread.

Cheers,


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

drifter106 said:


> Stumbled onto this site and made me think about checking what other people have to say....
> 
> Have been around haying for a few years (alfalfa 5 yrs) and farming row crops all my life. Just wandering, after doing some reading, what your thoughts are on using a meter for testing the moisture content on hay. I have always gone by sight and the"twist". On a day when the weather is right...cut in the morning and putting it up before the sun goes down. Granted, I am wondering if I am missing something here by not using the technology. I for one am always on the "give it a little more sun" to be safe from spoilage.
> 
> Thoughts? Or am I stewing over nothing....


I can see going either way. I think the moisture meter is a great tool, but it can drive you a bit nuts at times.
Are you talking about one in your baler? I really like mine. Wouldn't bale without it.


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## drifter106 (Dec 31, 2015)

Granted, that one day thing is NOT an every day experience. Cut one day, rake and bale the next.

Many valid points are brought out in the replies (especially how the variance of moisture is in the windrow). But if you stop and think about it, its only natural for that to be due to the fact of the inconsistency of the windrow.

Will definitely due some more research and plan on getting one for this coming years crop.

thanks...


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

We run both an in baler and a handheld unit. As mentioned, it was a little different seeing the variance from one end of the feild to the other and also the variance between baling to the East vs. West. There is also a difference in North vs. South due to the morning sun drying the dew on the sunny side of the windrow first. Like any tool, they are about as good as the operator let's them be. I still get off the tractor periodically and check by hand, but they sure speed up the process and more importantly they tell me when to quit when baling at night with the dew falling.


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## drifter106 (Dec 31, 2015)

Have never really shopped for one of these although I have seen some priced from $200 to $650...any recommendations? Are some units better (accurate) at giving moisture content?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I bought a handheld agratronix unit on eBay for about $100 built for john Deere, it works great......


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I have an agtronix handheld and whatever Case NH sells for the bale chamber.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

drifter106 said:


> Have never really shopped for one of these although I have seen some priced from $200 to $650...any recommendations? Are some units better (accurate) at giving moisture content?


I'm selling my John Deere handheld. It's used but works fine. 3 yrs old. Only thing is the battery cover is missing. Zip tie holds in battery just fine. New it's ~$200
Send me $110 and I'll ship it to you.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

If you are looking at the baler mounted ones from JD or NH, keep in mind that they are Agratronix units with JD/NH packaging. The one I have is an older style that is built into the harvest tech preservative applicator that I have on my JD336 baler, I think it was basically the same thing as the older Agratronix single sensor units (which I'm pretty sure they have improved on). Agratronix also sells a two sensor setup that I think would be a little more forgiving about consistent readings. I'm looking at possibly getting a separate preservative applicator for my JD 348 baler, but am torn getting a simpler applicator (i.e. cheaper) and a separate moisture meter or buying another "all in one" system.

Another name that gets tossed out quite a bit is Delmhorst. They make units that can be handheld or attached to baler mounted sensors. The nice thing about theirs is that you can have the same unit do both. Agratronix you would have to buy two separate testers.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Just one thing to be careful of when you get a meter. That is to know the difference between stem moisture and surface moisture. Meter will read them the same. But there is a huge difference between the two.


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## chatoona (Nov 17, 2015)

I have never used a moisture meter, the ol twist method has been successful for the 30 years I have been making hay.

I am reading the posts about the meters with interest though.

Happy New Year everyone.


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

drifter106 said:


> Have never really shopped for one of these although I have seen some priced from $200 to $650...any recommendations? Are some units better (accurate) at giving moisture content?


Welcome to Hay Talk. As others have stated the Agritronix and John Deere are the same thing. You'll want to be using your "twist method" knowledge to learn how it corresponds to the reading the moisture tester gives. We have both handheld and baler mounted models and the same hay will have a difference of a couple of percentage points. The goal isn't to have scientific accuracy but a number on a scale to know how to proceed with baling hay.

Shelia


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## drifter106 (Dec 31, 2015)

Well....after all that has been discussed it appears that I definitely will get one now. There is that urge to found out where my "twist" method falls into place with a meter reading. Heck I could be off by quite a bit and might be able to realize a "gain". Don't think it will be that significant but its worth the try. LoL


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well I must say " been there done that" and they all work if you put some effort into it.

At one time I could cut rake and bale in all the same calendar day.

Started out doing what my Grandfather showed my father. The twist or finger nail scrap of the stem. Even hauled the hay to the barn in that same 24 hour period. I doubt very much that will work in the Humid East, We migrated to the Central Texas Blacklands in 1951 from Eastern PA or Western NJ.

Then my Father became scientific and he got a bale moisture tester.

I went of to College to learn the best way to farm. Figured more money was to be made raising alfalfa than Cotton & we went fence row to fence row alfalfa.

Was in the AF ROTC thinking I would like to learn to fly and be a crop duster. Went in the AF as the Korean War was over. Trouble was they did not need pilots in 1956 so went to Navigator school.

After the AF I returned to the farm, and started all over again learning how to raise hay.

Things were changing along the way. As fast as I could learn the best way to raise and package hay the best way changed. It is still changing.

Latest Poop is came from http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdfVirginia / West Virginia.

All the learned authorities will tell us the best moisture level to work hay, but W V published to use the Humidity to put up hay. Cornell & Wisconsin told me how to cure hay and for how long.

Today we have 0.10" of pan evaporation and we need 2.0" to cure hay in a windrow. Laid out flat it needs 0.80" to cure. Then you rake the hay and bale.

Summer time we have 0.50" of pan evaporation. Hay cures faster and better then.

We should rake the hay when the Relative humidity is around 90%, as measured down next to the hay.

We should be patient and start baling when the HUMIDITY is 70% RH for small bales and 65% for large heavy bales.

HERE we can bale hay during March, Thru June during the day. Here we have enough humidity to bale maybe for 2 hours during the rest of the year. Some years we do not have enough humidity to even bale at night during July and August. That is ok as it does not rain enough to grow enough hay to bother with during July or August.

There is a researcher in Arizona looking at the humidity for baling in the Arid West.

Back to moisture testers. The only really accurate measuring of hay moisture is by weighing the hay, drying the hay with heat and weighing the hay again. Great for research but with results too late for baling.

With an electronic tester, if the hay is highly compressed the reported moisture will be higher. With hay baled too loose then reported moisture will be too low. ( for me a 55 lb bale 36" long will be close enough)

Testing on the go if the pickup is on the cut side the moisture will be mostly stem moisture. If the pickup is on the off side the moisture will be mostly leaf moisture. The Researchers use the heating of hay method and find the accurate average moisture. Average for 30 minutes ago that is.

If the person in the tractor seat is paying attention they can see when too many leaves are shattering off the bale hay. For small bales that is. Too much iron to see leaf shattering with large bales.

For the Arid West you can pump steam into the windrow and bale all day and most of the night, with out loosing leaves.

Short answer is what ever works for you is what is best for you.

For the record I belong to the California Hay Growers Ass, The NM Ass, The Kentucky Ass, and the American Association. Dan Undersander at Wisconsson puts our real good information, as Do Georgia and Alabama.

I will appreciate any information that works for you.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well I must say " been there done that" and they all work if you put some effort into it.

At one time I could cut rake and bale in all the same calendar day.

Started out doing what my Grandfather showed my father. The twist or finger nail scrap of the stem. Even hauled the hay to the barn in that same 24 hour period. I doubt very much that will work in the Humid East, We migrated to the Central Texas Blacklands in 1951 from Eastern PA or Western NJ.

Then my Father became scientific and he got a bale moisture tester.

I went of to College to learn the best way to farm. Figured more money was to be made raising alfalfa than Cotton & we went fence row to fence row alfalfa.

Was in the AF ROTC thinking I would like to learn to fly and be a crop duster. Went in the AF as the Korean War was over. Trouble was they did not need pilots in 1956 so went to Navigator school.

After the AF I returned to the farm, and started all over again learning how to raise hay.

Things were changing along the way. As fast as I could learn the best way to raise and package hay the best way changed. It is still changing.

Latest Poop is came from http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdfVirginia / West Virginia.

All the learned authorities will tell us the best moisture level to work hay, but W V published to use the Humidity to put up hay. Cornell & Wisconsin told me how to cure hay and for how long.

Today we have 0.10" of pan evaporation and we need 2.0" to cure hay in a windrow. Laid out flat it needs 0.80" to cure. Then you rake the hay and bale.

Summer time we have 0.50" of pan evaporation. Hay cures faster and better then.

We should rake the hay when the Relative humidity is around 90%, as measured down next to the hay.

We should be patient and start baling when the HUMIDITY is 70% RH for small bales and 65% for large heavy bales.

HERE we can bale hay during March, Thru June during the day. Here we have enough humidity to bale maybe for 2 hours during the rest of the year. Some years we do not have enough humidity to even bale at night during July and August. That is ok as it does not rain enough to grow enough hay to bother with during July or August.

There is a researcher in Arizona looking at the humidity for baling in the Arid West.

Back to moisture testers. The only really accurate measuring of hay moisture is by weighing the hay, drying the hay with heat and weighing the hay again. Great for research but with results too late for baling.

With an electronic tester, if the hay is highly compressed the reported moisture will be higher. With hay baled too loose then reported moisture will be too low. ( for me a 55 lb bale 36" long will be close enough)

Testing on the go if the pickup is on the cut side the moisture will be mostly stem moisture. If the pickup is on the off side the moisture will be mostly leaf moisture. The Researchers use the heating of hay method and find the accurate average moisture. Average for 30 minutes ago that is.

If the person in the tractor seat is paying attention they can see when too many leaves are shattering off the bale hay. For small bales that is. Too much iron to see leaf shattering with large bales.

For the Arid West you can pump steam into the windrow and bale all day and most of the night, with out loosing leaves.

Short answer is what ever works for you is what is best for you.

For the record I belong to the California Hay Growers Ass, The NM Ass, The Kentucky Ass, and the American Association. Dan Undersander at Wisconsson puts our real good information, as Do Georgia and Alabama.

I will appreciate any information that works for you.


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well I must say " been there done that" and they all work if you put some effort into it.

At one time I could cut rake and bale in all the same calendar day.

Started out doing what my Grandfather showed my father. The twist or finger nail scrap of the stem. Even hauled the hay to the barn in that same 24 hour period. I doubt very much that will work in the Humid East, We migrated to the Central Texas Blacklands in 1951 from Eastern PA or Western NJ.

Then my Father became scientific and he got a bale moisture tester.

I went of to College to learn the best way to farm. Figured more money was to be made raising alfalfa than Cotton & we went fence row to fence row alfalfa.

Was in the AF ROTC thinking I would like to learn to fly and be a crop duster. Went in the AF as the Korean War was over. Trouble was they did not need pilots in 1956 so went to Navigator school.

After the AF I returned to the farm, and started all over again learning how to raise hay.

Things were changing along the way. As fast as I could learn the best way to raise and package hay the best way changed. It is still changing.

Latest Poop is came from http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdfVirginia / West Virginia.

All the learned authorities will tell us the best moisture level to work hay, but W V published to use the Humidity to put up hay. Cornell & Wisconsin told me how to cure hay and for how long.

Today we have 0.10" of pan evaporation and we need 2.0" to cure hay in a windrow. Laid out flat it needs 0.80" to cure. Then you rake the hay and bale.

Summer time we have 0.50" of pan evaporation. Hay cures faster and better then.

We should rake the hay when the Relative humidity is around 90%, as measured down next to the hay.

We should be patient and start baling when the HUMIDITY is 70% RH for small bales and 65% for large heavy bales.

HERE we can bale hay during March, Thru June during the day. Here we have enough humidity to bale maybe for 2 hours during the rest of the year. Some years we do not have enough humidity to even bale at night during July and August. That is ok as it does not rain enough to grow enough hay to bother with during July or August.

There is a researcher in Arizona looking at the humidity for baling in the Arid West.

Back to moisture testers. The only really accurate measuring of hay moisture is by weighing the hay, drying the hay with heat and weighing the hay again. Great for research but with results too late for baling.

With an electronic tester, if the hay is highly compressed the reported moisture will be higher. With hay baled too loose then reported moisture will be too low. ( for me a 55 lb bale 36" long will be close enough)

Testing on the go if the pickup is on the cut side the moisture will be mostly stem moisture. If the pickup is on the off side the moisture will be mostly leaf moisture. The Researchers use the heating of hay method and find the accurate average moisture. Average for 30 minutes ago that is.

If the person in the tractor seat is paying attention they can see when too many leaves are shattering off the bale hay. For small bales that is. Too much iron to see leaf shattering with large bales.

For the Arid West you can pump steam into the windrow and bale all day and most of the night, with out loosing leaves.

Short answer is what ever works for you is what is best for you.

For the record I belong to the California Hay Growers Ass, The NM Ass, The Kentucky Ass, and the American Association. Dan Undersander at Wisconsson puts our real good information, as Do Georgia and Alabama.

I will appreciate any information that works for you.


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well I must say " been there done that" and they all work if you put some effort into it.

At one time I could cut rake and bale in all the same calendar day.

Started out doing what my Grandfather showed my father. The twist or finger nail scrap of the stem. Even hauled the hay to the barn in that same 24 hour period. I doubt very much that will work in the Humid East, We migrated to the Central Texas Blacklands in 1951 from Eastern PA or Western NJ.

Then my Father became scientific and he got a bale moisture tester.

I went of to College to learn the best way to farm. Figured more money was to be made raising alfalfa than Cotton & we went fence row to fence row alfalfa.

Was in the AF ROTC thinking I would like to learn to fly and be a crop duster. Went in the AF as the Korean War was over. Trouble was they did not need pilots in 1956 so went to Navigator school.

After the AF I returned to the farm, and started all over again learning how to raise hay.

Things were changing along the way. As fast as I could learn the best way to raise and package hay the best way changed. It is still changing.

Latest Poop is came from http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdfVirginia / West Virginia.

All the learned authorities will tell us the best moisture level to work hay, but W V published to use the Humidity to put up hay. Cornell & Wisconsin told me how to cure hay and for how long.

Today we have 0.10" of pan evaporation and we need 2.0" to cure hay in a windrow. Laid out flat it needs 0.80" to cure. Then you rake the hay and bale.

Summer time we have 0.50" of pan evaporation. Hay cures faster and better then.

We should rake the hay when the Relative humidity is around 90%, as measured down next to the hay.

We should be patient and start baling when the HUMIDITY is 70% RH for small bales and 65% for large heavy bales.

HERE we can bale hay during March, Thru June during the day. Here we have enough humidity to bale maybe for 2 hours during the rest of the year. Some years we do not have enough humidity to even bale at night during July and August. That is ok as it does not rain enough to grow enough hay to bother with during July or August.

There is a researcher in Arizona looking at the humidity for baling in the Arid West.

Back to moisture testers. The only really accurate measuring of hay moisture is by weighing the hay, drying the hay with heat and weighing the hay again. Great for research but with results too late for baling.

With an electronic tester, if the hay is highly compressed the reported moisture will be higher. With hay baled too loose then reported moisture will be too low. ( for me a 55 lb bale 36" long will be close enough)

Testing on the go if the pickup is on the cut side the moisture will be mostly stem moisture. If the pickup is on the off side the moisture will be mostly leaf moisture. The Researchers use the heating of hay method and find the accurate average moisture. Average for 30 minutes ago that is.

If the person in the tractor seat is paying attention they can see when too many leaves are shattering off the bale hay. For small bales that is. Too much iron to see leaf shattering with large bales.

For the Arid West you can pump steam into the windrow and bale all day and most of the night, with out loosing leaves.

Short answer is what ever works for you is what is best for you.

For the record I belong to the California Hay Growers Ass, The NM Ass, The Kentucky Ass, and the American Association. Dan Undersander at Wisconsson puts our real good information, as Do Georgia and Alabama.

I will appreciate any information that works for you.


----------



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well I must say " been there done that" and they all work if you put some effort into it.

At one time I could cut rake and bale in all the same calendar day.

Started out doing what my Grandfather showed my father. The twist or finger nail scrap of the stem. Even hauled the hay to the barn in that same 24 hour period. I doubt very much that will work in the Humid East, We migrated to the Central Texas Blacklands in 1951 from Eastern PA or Western NJ.

Then my Father became scientific and he got a bale moisture tester.

I went of to College to learn the best way to farm. Figured more money was to be made raising alfalfa than Cotton & we went fence row to fence row alfalfa.

Was in the AF ROTC thinking I would like to learn to fly and be a crop duster. Went in the AF as the Korean War was over. Trouble was they did not need pilots in 1956 so went to Navigator school.

After the AF I returned to the farm, and started all over again learning how to raise hay.

Things were changing along the way. As fast as I could learn the best way to raise and package hay the best way changed. It is still changing.

Latest Poop is came from http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdfVirginia / West Virginia.

All the learned authorities will tell us the best moisture level to work hay, but W V published to use the Humidity to put up hay. Cornell & Wisconsin told me how to cure hay and for how long.

Today we have 0.10" of pan evaporation and we need 2.0" to cure hay in a windrow. Laid out flat it needs 0.80" to cure. Then you rake the hay and bale.

Summer time we have 0.50" of pan evaporation. Hay cures faster and better then.

We should rake the hay when the Relative humidity is around 90%, as measured down next to the hay.

We should be patient and start baling when the HUMIDITY is 70% RH for small bales and 65% for large heavy bales.

HERE we can bale hay during March, Thru June during the day. Here we have enough humidity to bale maybe for 2 hours during the rest of the year. Some years we do not have enough humidity to even bale at night during July and August. That is ok as it does not rain enough to grow enough hay to bother with during July or August.

There is a researcher in Arizona looking at the humidity for baling in the Arid West.

Back to moisture testers. The only really accurate measuring of hay moisture is by weighing the hay, drying the hay with heat and weighing the hay again. Great for research but with results too late for baling.

With an electronic tester, if the hay is highly compressed the reported moisture will be higher. With hay baled too loose then reported moisture will be too low. ( for me a 55 lb bale 36" long will be close enough)

Testing on the go if the pickup is on the cut side the moisture will be mostly stem moisture. If the pickup is on the off side the moisture will be mostly leaf moisture. The Researchers use the heating of hay method and find the accurate average moisture. Average for 30 minutes ago that is.

If the person in the tractor seat is paying attention they can see when too many leaves are shattering off the bale hay. For small bales that is. Too much iron to see leaf shattering with large bales.

For the Arid West you can pump steam into the windrow and bale all day and most of the night, with out loosing leaves.

Short answer is what ever works for you is what is best for you.

For the record I belong to the California Hay Growers Ass, The NM Ass, The Kentucky Ass, and the American Association. Dan Undersander at Wisconsson puts our real good information, as Do Georgia and Alabama.

I will appreciate any information that works for you.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

If you use a meter on a just bailed tight bail, then the results can be "sort of" consistent. If you stick the meter in the windrow, or a bucket full of hay, the results can vary like crazy.

If you have been using the twist method with success, don't buy a meter. My experience with a meter is that the results vary so much, that I always fall back on the twist and "gut feeling" method for the final decision as to when to bail.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

A lot depends on your local management methods.

Usually hay that is stacked and sitting in the barn will have a higher moisture level than immediately after baling. Depending on the stem moisture will effect the sweat and the after harvest moisture percentage.
Normally this is not a problem. At least not HERE.

An advantage with on the go moisture testing is gives a heads up on moisture changes so you know to adjust Bale weight by changing the tension.

A fallacy might be if you come up on a wet slug it will be in the bale before you can take action. True if the operator is alive in his easy chair he will soon learn to recognise a damper part of the windrow and take action.

HERE we usually have the luxury of baling the hay the day following the hay being way too dry and bale with the night dew's moisture.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

We completed the third harvest of alfalfa two weeks ago (sm sqs) and the first harvest of bermudagrass last week (rbs). These harvests were the first time I got to try the new 20-inch probe Agrotronics moisture meter with the calibration tip. On alfalfa raked the previous day, the humidity meter indicated it was the right conditions to initiate baling at 10 AM, but the moisture meter read about 25% in the second bale. I didn't realize that the moisture would read high in the tightly compressed bale, but I stopped baling and tried again about noon. Then the next bale read 15% moisture.

On the round bales made on Wednesday, I tested the temperature and moisture on Thursday morning by probing the center of the flat side of the bale. The temperature was no higher than 110 F but the moisture was reading in the mid 30s. On a hunch, I called Agrotronics tech support and was told measure temperature in the center of the flat side of the bale, but to read moisture in the top 6-inch depth on the round side of the bale. On the round side of the bale, 6-inches deep, the moisture % was in the range of 14 to 17, so I proceeded to put the round bales into the barn. It helps when one knows how to correctly use the moisture meter.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

vhaby did you happen to ask them what the difference in moisture reading would be between alfalfa and grass hay? I have been meaning to call and see if they can give me an idea as to what the difference would be when measuring moisture in grass hay vs alfalfa.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I just bought a meter, and I have found it to be a waste of money...

Shows 17% moisture on a bale that's been in the barn for a year. Shows 35% on some hay that was baled a little tough 3 weeks ago...If that hay was 35% my barn would have burnt by now...


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

That is the same thing I am having PaMike....Bales that are dry as a popcorn fart are showing 25% or higher and there ain't no way this is true. I would have bunt down half the barns in the county if this hay I am testing is 25%+. It shows high moisture but the temps are all under 110 and most are under 100. These bales are from just rolled to 3 weeks old. I have a few that show 40% moisture and has never heated over 110 in the last 3 weeks.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

I didn't ask Agrotronics Tech Support how to read moisture in a tight wire-tied sm sq bale of alfalfa, but I will depend more on the Hygrometer recommended by Bill Wilson and start baling based on about 65% humidity at near ground level at the edge of the raked windrow. Then I will use the moisture meter to verify moisture levels in the first bales. Guess I will need to call Agrotronics Tech Support again about sm sq bale moisture determination.


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

Dr Haby, what humidity meter are you using? I have a temp and humidity meter from Thermoworks (their Thermapen is pretty much the ultimate quick read thermometer for the kitchen), but its numbers are all over the board and I don't think anywhere near correct. I am looking for a better option.

Thanks.

Reed


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

rajela said:


> That is the same thing I am having PaMike....Bales that are dry as a popcorn fart are showing 25% or higher and there ain't no way this is true. I would have bunt down half the barns in the county if this hay I am testing is 25%+. It shows high moisture but the temps are all under 110 and most are under 100. These bales are from just rolled to 3 weeks old. I have a few that show 40% moisture and has never heated over 110 in the last 3 weeks.


Yup, same here. I have a compost thermo in one. Reads 110 at the center of the bale. I believe it cause the hay was a little tough so the temp shows I will probably have some dust/light mold. Meter reads 35% moisture, but only 90 degrees...??


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> I just bought a meter, and I have found it to be a waste of money...
> Shows 17% moisture on a bale that's been in the barn for a year. Shows 35% on some hay that was baled a little tough 3 weeks ago...If that hay was 35% my barn would have burnt by now...


Did you check several spots and average them?
Maybe on the 35 bale, you were in a wet slug


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Reed, I have never paid attention before, but no where on the meter, meter box, or instruction sheet does it say the brand. The box has a sticker that reads

E.S.A.P.C. PO# 718222

E.S.A.P.C. Item# 112823

Description: Thermometer/

Hygrometer Digital Jumbo

Made in PRC

I purchased it from FarmTek and list it in my Quicken account as 'FarmTek Thermo/Hygrometer' purchased for about $52 including shipping. The closest that I can come to a similar one is found at:

https://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft_under_50;pg112823.html


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Would it make any sense for someone to develop a tractor mounted version, with a sensor mounted under front axle of tractor to "sniff" the fpground for humidity at ground level?
That way we would know the all important humidity at ground level readings while we're baling. 
I think HayWilson (well wishes) had something like that on his baling tractor.

Sounds like it could be the next great hay farming accessory! Lol


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

vhaby said:


> I didn't ask Agrotronics Tech Support how to read moisture in a tight wire-tied sm sq bale of alfalfa, but I will depend more on the Hygrometer recommended by Bill Wilson and start baling based on about 65% humidity at near ground level at the edge of the raked windrow. Then I will use the moisture meter to verify moisture levels in the first bales. Guess I will need to call Agrotronics Tech Support again about sm sq bale moisture determination.


Update:

I called AgraTronics tech support about reading moisture in small sq bales of alfalfa. Was told the AgraTronics HT-Pro was designed for reading moisture in alfalfa hay and to insert the HT-Pro probe at a 45 degree angle into the top of the bale. When I began baling at 65 to 70% humidity according to the hygrometer, the first two bales were quite heavy and read in the range of 35% moisture. Bales must have weighed well over 100 lb when they should be around 75 to 80 lb for a 38- to 40-in long bale at about 15% moisture, so I stopped baling for a couple of hours.

Bales made later and loaded onto a clients trailer tested about 17% moisture, so I have to believe the HT-Pro is working properly.

Can anyone in the eastern US help me learn how to make wire-tied, dense sm sq alfalfa hay with nice green color at the correct moisture and not incur some leaf shatter?


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

vhaby said:


> Update:
> 
> I called AgraTronics tech support about reading moisture in small sq bales of alfalfa. Was told the AgraTronics HT-Pro was designed for reading moisture in alfalfa hay and to insert the HT-Pro probe at a 45 degree angle into the top of the bale. When I began baling at 65 to 70% humidity according to the hygrometer, the first two bales were quite heavy and read in the range of 35% moisture. Bales must have weighed well over 100 lb when they should be around 75 to 80 lb for a 38- to 40-in long bale at about 15% moisture, so I stopped baling for a couple of hours.
> Bales made later and loaded onto a clients trailer tested about 17% moisture, so I have to believe the HT-Pro is working properly.
> Can anyone in the eastern US help me learn how to make wire-tied, dense sm sq alfalfa hay with nice green color at the correct moisture and not incur some leaf shatter?


Believe me - I'm no expert. Hay, green color, correct moisture and little not much leaf loss.

I've only used a crimping roll type hay conditioner, Hesston 1110 with steel on rubber rollers. Here is a pic of the profiles meshing:









What I like about this profile is its pretty much a crimping mechanism. I guess some crushing occurs as the wad of hay is going through, but I feel the enemy in dry down is the stem, not so much the leaf. These rollers leave a crimp every few inches along the stem - to a point where it lays across your arm like a limp rope. Dry down is great. Don't think these rollers do much damage to the leaf since there is much space between the lobe sides. I think this type of steel on rubber is still available on one or two model MF/Hesston disc mower conditioners. Not sure how hay directionally is fed into a disc mower conditioner, the Hesston I've got is a sickle type and between the front lean bar and reel, the grass stem is pretty much fed perpendicular to the rolls for a nice crimp. The newer steel on steel rollers on most every brand disc mower conditioner have pointed lobes and look to crimp stems vs crush and/or tear leaves. It might be you could use a different type of roller than what you've got. Maybe if the $$$$'s are there, Super C rollers - where everything is crushed.

I kind of like the idea of a rotary rake. May not be much drying time, but I should think a nice tall/fluffy windrow would help with dry down, especially with conditioned hay.

Next on the list is luck. Last year, windows for rain and thunder storms were narrow, humidity high. This year, we had good windows with no rain, but more important, breezey air and very low humidity.

Lastly - if your customer will tolerate it, some type of hay preservative. We have buffered propionic acid ready to go. I can explain the hay preservative and its vinegar smell, but not dust.

Good conditioning, good luck and hay preservative IMHO is the key.

YMMV

Bill


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

vhaby said:


> Can anyone in the eastern US help me learn how to make wire-tied, dense sm sq alfalfa hay with nice green color at the correct moisture and not incur some leaf shatter?


Well, from your description in the other thread, I surely don't have anything to correct you about. Now, I have no experience with alfalfa, only lespedeza, which while having a similar leaf and stem structure has a much drier stem.

Everything you said looked great. The one time since using the humidity technique that I have gotten in trouble, was last year early Sept. cutting, and we got hit with a little different weather than I was used to. Really cool, and really low humidity. So, by my normal start time for baling, the humidity was low. But, because of the cool weather, the stems weren't completely dry.

So, the result was hay that was both too dry and too wet. Lost more leaves than I would like, and had some moldy spots.

Just when I think I'm getting a handle on this stuff, you get a little different set of conditions and it throws your game plan a curveball. Sometimes I adapt well, and sometimes not very well.

Were the drydown conditions that you had post-cutting any different than normal?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

reede said:


> Were the drydown conditions that you had post-cutting any different than normal?


Drying conditions were excellent, and much better than for the previous three cuttings. At the end of the second day after cutting (cut, tedded next morning, raked second morning), conditioned stems in the raked windrows were easily snapping dry. Starting to bale at 9:30 the third morning when the hygrometer read in the range of 65 to 70% humidity in the windrow at ground level was too early. I could feel the moisture in the alfalfa.

Lesson learned (maybe) is to wait for the meter to register lower humidity and test bale weights and bale moisture content to determine when, or at what humidity to begin baling. Does anyone know how to test accuracy on a humidity meter?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

PaMike said:


> I just bought a meter, and I have found it to be a waste of money...
> Shows 17% moisture on a bale that's been in the barn for a year. Shows 35% on some hay that was baled a little tough 3 weeks ago...If that hay was 35% my barn would have burnt by now...


Baled this year's 1st cutting manly alfalfa (some OG) in one sample, alfalfa in other sample, baled at 15-16% moisture (Delmhorst), Agri-Tronix 18-19%, Harvest Tech 17-18% moisture (yes use all three, have Delmhorst and HarvestTech in stalled on baler). Baled hay on June 2, just sent samples in for testing (27 days after baling), used Agri-Tronix to test moisture at same location that I took samples from (temperature was 81 degrees, inside of bale), moisture readings where 19-22% moisture (2-4% higher, 4 weeks after baling/sweating), tests came back, lab results showed sample moistures at 15.6% & 16.0%.

Still learning the differences in readings between meters, just sent sample today of yesterday's 2nd cutting. Waiting for those results to see if they are close to the different testers readings.

Larry


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## reede (May 17, 2010)

vhaby said:


> Drying conditions were excellent, and much better than for the previous three cuttings. At the end of the second day after cutting (cut, tedded next morning, raked second morning), conditioned stems in the raked windrows were easily snapping dry. Starting to bale at 9:30 the third morning when the hygrometer read in the range of 65 to 70% humidity in the windrow at ground level was too early. I could feel the moisture in the alfalfa.
> 
> Lesson learned (maybe) is to wait for the meter to register lower humidity and test bale weights and bale moisture content to determine when, or at what humidity to begin baling. Does anyone know how to test accuracy on a humidity meter?


I don't know how to test the accuracy of one, and that was kind of where I started when I asked you up above which type you were using. I had been using one from Thermoworks, and their Thermapen is the standard for quick read thermometers in the kitchen. So, I figured quality product. The temp/humidity reader from them is large pen size, and very convenient. But on a warm day, the temp on it will read about 10 or so degrees different than either it feels or another meter, especially if it is in the sun.

Someone else asked the question in another thread about falling humidity in the morning, versus rising in the evening, and how much lag, or equilibration time there is, and what numbers to start and stop at. Maybe there is something to that, and then what about humidity that falls quickly, versus a slow decline?

Seems like there still is no substitute for operator judgement, and sometimes even then things throw you for a loop.


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