# Strange condition in bull calves



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have had four calves born this spring that in the long and short of it were too stupid to even suck. Bottle fed them for the first day or more. The first calf took several days of this before he got the ideal and even then for a few days had to steer him towards momma, luckily so was a pretty mellow animal and would let me push the calf right to her teats.

Lost the second one, the last two have had to do the same thing. One is catching on finally, the other is stupid as a bucket of rocks. Give him half a bottle so he's still hungry, shove em towards momma, then he goes after the same dry quarter every time. This last one is so stupid that he even forgets what the bottle is the next time around. First 24 hours had to tube him twice as he wouldn't suck, period. The wife has had to feed him since as he tries whats left of my patience. I've seen these last two suck on momma's front legs, on mommas neck, on her ears, on her back legs and the one even sucked on momma's tale. Like I said, stupid as a bucket of rocks.

All four has had this on them to varying degrees, none of the heifer calves has had it at all and the rest of the bull calves were fine. The one we lost was the worst.










The first bull calf we had problems with had this same thing although not as bad and all the hair has since come in to fill in the "Rashy" looking spots.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

I remember brown Swiss calves like that. I kept one going for nearly a month and then lost it. I blamed it on genes but have no answers no answers for you. Mel


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Hmm, first one that we dealt with is running around like nothing was ever wrong.

If it matters at all, first two is from first calf heifers, one is doing fine, lost the other. Last two are from mature cows that have never lost a calf before.

If it wasn't for the rash, the wife might have a good theory, somewhere in the winter pasture is a good size rock and these four mommas gave birth standing over the rock and those calves landed on their heads. 

One last thing I should add, sounded like all four calves were also starting to catch pneumonia, have cleared it up in the other three with two doses of penicillin then followed up with Tylan 200.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I can't really help you with the rash. Never seen that on newborn calves.

I've dealt with the dumb calves that don't know how to suck. Can really try a guys patience. 1/2 cc of Rompum (sedative) to the cow to make her easy to work with helps. Most you just have to show em where the tit is a few times and they figure it out. Had one last year that wouldn't suck at all. I about wanted to club him over the head. Those ones that wont suck at all, I find a shot of vitamin B complex can sometimes stimulate their appetite and get them sucking. It worked on that dumb one I had last year. Give them the shot and 8 to 12 hours later they seem to be ready to go. Seems to usually happen to us if a calf gets chilled and we have to warm him up in the vet shack. Seems like it screws up the mothering up process. If they're really stubborn I usually tube them with a good colostrum replacer to begin with, maybe some milk replacer after that and then let em be and get good and hungry.

As for the pneumonia, did they get much colostrum or colostrum replacer? I'm sure you know that calves that don't get their colostrum are more prone to getting sick.

Our vet recommends Optiprime from hubbard as a good colostrum replacer. Kinda spendy at 28 bucks a bag but I love the stuff and wouldn't use anything else. Mixes really nice and I'd say its about the closest thing to real colostrum there is.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Could that rash be from a vitamin or mineral deficinacy? You might have to talk to your vet on that one.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Our Vet has always said . The most common cause of calves that cant suck is calves that are traumatized from a hard birth. These calves will often have a swollen tongue that they seem to have trouble controlling if they try to suck .


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

IHCman said:


> Could that rash be from a vitamin or mineral deficinacy? You might have to talk to your vet on that one.


It is a Vitamin E deficiency .. Start giving each calf and any more new born about 2mm of BOSE... it's basically a selenium deficiency.. .. right now when they do finally get up and start to walk I'am sure they act slow and walk like they are sore & stiff ? ........ ONLY give them 1 shot. DON"T and I mean DON"T give them any more than the 1 shot


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I just asked my neighbor who has been dairying for yrs and he stated Selenium deficiency also.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'll have to check on the mineral we are using and see if selenium is one of the ingredients.

Colustrum isn't a problem for us, I have a friend that has a Jersey herd and every year we get several gallons from him and freeze it.

Could have been a hard birth on the first, first calf heifer and all and she's the smallest momma of the bunch, second was good sized for a hereford/angus cross. Last two the momma's could pass for full grown Holstein cows. Last two calfs weren't overly large but are long legged.

Using a registered short horn bull if that matters at all.

Could be part of the problem as well is what they are eating was the last of the first cutting I made in the middle of July (very wet here last year) it was mature but when running bales thru the vertical TMR you still find a lot of leaves on the alfalfa.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

With your bad haying season last year I would think that your short of a mineral somewhere. With the old cows that cant chew as good and the heifers that get pushed out of the best stuff.

I had a selenium shortage one year. Feeding hay that had 9 inches of rain on it. Took a bit to figure it out. Feeding the same mineral from the same place. But this place was under new ownership. Charged more for the mineral. Was reading the tag one day and found out they removed the selenium altogether. Wow charge for money for less mineral. Needless to say I have not been back since. I also give every calf born a shot of vit E and selenium plus a shot of vit A and D.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

This is the first year we've had this problem, I'll definitely have to check the tag on the mineral bags and see if selenium is still in there. I know it used to be&#8230;,.

Didn't buy any this year at the auctions considering I had plenty of cow hay, but the winter before anytime baleage at the auction was cheap enough I'd buy it and grind it into the ration.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

mlappin it's from the 2nd cutting hay that grew under wet conditions don't blame your mineral. because they can only put some much in the mineral ration.... you CAN Kill a cow or calf by giving them too much selenium.. I've done it.. and they Die a Horrible Horrible death it sickened me to watch how it suffered.. That is why I said ONLY 2 mm for a new born calf.. if it's a 100 lb calf you can go up to 3 mm... but that is it.. 2 will get the job done for you.. it can take up to 24-36 hrs for it to get though their system .. but just start giving it to every calf that is born for the next 6 to 8 wks.. it would hurt and it's cheap and will save you alot of headaches


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Critters here only get fed 1st cutting hay, they only get later cuttings if I have the odd bale heat up while in storage or if I have a couple of wet ones from along a woods or fence row.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Must be bull calves are much more susceptible to it? Have had two heifer calves born and another bull calve, all three are fine so genetics also must play a part as some cows seem to make better use of what selenium is available.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Sorry to read about the calf issues though I have learned from reading this discussion.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So far both dummies have been nursing off their mommas for the last couple of days and seem to be doing better. Soon as it rains heading to the next county to a real vet and getting some selenium if they have it.


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## lcjaynes (Jul 25, 2014)

I've heard BVD-PI (persistent infectors) can act that way at birth. A quick ear-notch sample sent to a lab can confirm for about $3.50 per test.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Picked up a bottle of Vitamin A&D plus a bottle of Selenium/vitamin E.

Stuff must be a bit more concentrated, 1/2 CC of Selenium and 3/4's of the A&D.

Still the critters are being very trying this year.

Had one cow I thought Dad put her in with the steers for some odd reason and Dad thought I did. Got to talking and it was well "how the f*ck did she get in there". No steers in with the cows either. Never did figure out how she did it. With planting and everything else going on she went and dropped her calf before we could sort her back out. Okay, no problem, fed the steers their grain and locked them into a different part of the lot, she did her job, cleaned baby up and baby nursed. Opened a few gates to the winter pasture and with a bit more grain lured her to the lane which baby followed for roughly 50 foot before deciding she had a rough morning and needed a nap. Cow kept going and left the calf, wife got all nervous about that and after I left to plant some more she managed to get it to walk up onto the floor of the Polaris Ranger and took it to the winter pasture where momma promptly ignored it for the rest of the day. Next morning she was back in the barn looking thru a gate into the steer lot where her calf was and raising holy hell, okay fine, jumped into the polaris, found the calf, brought it back to the barn stuck it in a different spot in the alley so momma could "find it". Success!! Momma found it, took it back to the pasture then promptly started completely ignoring it two days later and refusing to let it nurse.

The wife got a earful about not doing what I told her in the first place and moving the calf instead of leaving it where momma had last seen it and secondly for going into the winter pasture by herself, I don't think she heard a word of if because she got her red and white speckled heifer calf to raise. Momma was always really spooky/goofy after having a calf so now I imagine she's getting turned into White Castle sliders.

Then Sunday morning moved cows from one summer pasture to another and seen one of our Dalmation cows had a calf, okay good, always a good momma. Then this morning seeing another cow also trying to claim the other cows calf. Figured okay maybe the second is getting ready to calf, good size cow that you'd swear wasn't pregnant and could drop a 60lb calf the next day. Turns out the second momma had already had a calf but it had wondered off into one of the hoop buildings. Got that calf back with the rest, problem is the second momma wants the other cows baby as it's gonna be a good democratic voter in the future as it's already nursed off both mommas and milked the system for all it's worth. First momma wants absolutely nothing to do with the second calf and even kicked it, second momma kinda thinks it might be hers but wants the other one too.

Never seemed to remember having these problems when we had those nice calm polled hereford bulls instead of the shorthorn bulls Dads been insisting on using.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

mlappin, that stuff will happen no matter what breed of bull you use. Seems once a year during calving we'll have two cows calve next to each other and swap calves. As long as each cow takes a calf and is happy then I'm happy too. Looks a little funny though to see one of dads red calves on my black cow and one of my black calves on his red cow.

Also see it quite often where a cow is calving and wants to claim every calf she sees instead of laying down and crapping out her own.

As for your cow that wants the other ones baby and don't want hers, get her in away from the other calf, give her 1/2 cc to 1 cc of Rompum. Put her calf on her to nurse. That cow will go to sleep and wake up wanting her calf. Its like it resets their brain or something. We keep a bottle of Rompum around all the time. Makes adopting a calf on a cow go a lot smoother too.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

IHCman said:


> mlappin, that stuff will happen no matter what breed of bull you use. Seems once a year during calving we'll have two cows calve next to each other and swap calves. As long as each cow takes a calf and is happy then I'm happy too. Looks a little funny though to see one of dads red calves on my black cow and one of my black calves on his red cow.
> 
> Also see it quite often where a cow is calving and wants to claim every calf she sees instead of laying down and crapping out her own.
> 
> As for your cow that wants the other ones baby and don't want hers, get her in away from the other calf, give her 1/2 cc to 1 cc of Rompum. Put her calf on her to nurse. That cow will go to sleep and wake up wanting her calf. Its like it resets their brain or something. We keep a bottle of Rompum around all the time. Makes adopting a calf on a cow go a lot smoother too.


Thats what I figured, both had em about the same time but the second calf hit the ground running, got into the electric fence, got zapped then blasted thru the double wire on the first, the double wire on the other side of the lane and ended up in the hoop building. Second calf is definitely feisty, was about all me and dad could do to catch her and get her back in the pasture. Of course, Dad has his second artificial hip and a artificial knee, my back is doing better but not so much I'm gonna dive after a hind leg to catch her, so not like 20 years ago when either of us could do a flying tackle when the opportunity presented itself.

I've had those as well, a few though wanted everybody else's calf but her own, those either get shipped or ground into burger.

I'll have to get some of that sedative, we've tried the adopt a calf thing before, tried rubbing after birth on the calf, molasses (which just makes for a messy calf) and even vanilla on the cows nose and on the calf, more often than not just easier to give in and let the wife raise em. The wife does a fantastic job, but still not as good as getting their real momma to do the job if possible.

Has her red/white speckled heifer calf drinking her milk out of a bucket already at a week old. Wife wants to try to halter train this one for what ever reason. Well actually I know, had an older cow that was as gentle and tame as a milk cow and the wife misses her and wants another cow for a "pet".


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

LOL, just remembered something from over 20 years ago, a buddy rented some muck ground next to his farm to grow corn on to chop for silage, was always chocked full of ditch weed, he always wanted to pull the biggest clumps out before chopping as he was afraid it'd turn up in the milk. Need to get a whole bunch of that, hang it to dry then add it to the ration next spring to get the entire herd nice and mellow, if it's good stuff at all feed consumption might go up for awhile as well.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

20 calves so far in the last 8 weeks and absolutely zero problems like last year, went to a different mineral with selenium, the other stuff we had been using removed selenium from the mix.

Only issue is the calving started much later than normal given when we put the bull in with the cows, young bull, figure he was shy.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Only issue is the calving started much later than normal given when we put the bull in with the cows, young bull, figure he was shy.


I had a bull like that a couple of years ago and when I made that comment to my wife, her reply was "he is a good guy, not just a 'wham, bam, thank you mam' type of bull" 

Larry


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Kind had a similar thing with heifers not caring about there calves.Had 18 first calvers 4 or 5 could have been coming 3 rather than just 2 as I often get overly long suffering to a nice com heifer.We end with a lot of cows being around 10 years. Of that group only 2or3 made it 6 years.

My wife as a school teacher says the year the child was born makes a difference.There are 6 K-5 schools in the district and she says each grade has personality and general is the same at each school.Such as all are easy going,or one year they are all chatter boxes,or they cannot sit still. I guess kind of like the Chinese year of different animals maybe would explane it.

Just know I hope to not have another group of heifer like that again.


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