# Bale Bandit



## TBrown

Is anyone running a bale bandit? If so what is your thoughs and comments on them?


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## haybaler

I like mine. It is different than most AG equipment though. There is a pretty good learning curve with it but once you understand it and are comfortable with it, good to go. As far as productivity the same or a little faster than rolling 4X6 bales. Much better than an accumulator or a bale wagon.


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## TBrown

What do you use to move the bales? can you use spears like you do for a large square?


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## haybaler

Not exactly like large squares. It is best to pick them from the bottom. My spear has four prongs but have pick them with a single with two stabilizers. Not the best but it worked. I have used pallet forks too. I have also picked them between the bottom bale and the middle bale. The bottom will bag down and you have to slow down but can be done.


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## Production Acres

the package is great
the machine - we had 2 - 2000 model machines gave continual problems, computers, hydraulic manifold, hoses, bolts breaking, etc. If you are not an excellent mechanic - don't go there! we ran a lot of hay thru them.
spears will not work - only pallet forks
if you want more info, ask.


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## TBrown

I have heard horror stories from the first ones, but everyone I talk to that has a newer one loves them, so hopefully they have their problems worked out by now.


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## suhrj

I think a grabber is the best way to move this type of hay package.
Much less damage.


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## HALLSHAY

First of all, this is just my opinion!!!!!!

The window of opportunity to bale hay is short. We all know that. Why would you want to tie another piece of equipment to a baler to fight? What happens when a wet spot in a windrow ends up in the middle of a bundle? What happens when the steel band cuts the string on the outside bale? How are you going to load a flatbed truck with bundles that measure only 38 inches? Why would you want to buy a product from a d**khead?

We built a bundling system for ourselves several years ago for small squares. Neil Teitz wrote a short article in Hay and Forage about it. The day the article ran, my phone rang and it was Owen Brown, owner of GFC, the company that builds the band-it. The conversation was not pleasant because Owen told me that I was infringing on his patent and threatened legal action, without ever seeing a picture or any information about my machine. He said he would be in Colorado a few weeks after our conversation and he was going to come see my machine so he could decide what kind of legal action he would take. Needless to say, the chickens**t didn't have the balls to pull into my driveway. He was like I said before a d**khead.









I personally know of 4 machines in a 100 mile radius of my home that only kind of ran for 1 year and then they were sold or still sitting. I heard that GFC was terrible about dealing with the issues.

I have never owned or ran a bale-bandit so this is just my opinion of the process and the package. You need to take what I say with a grain of salt and make your own decision based on what other band-it owners say. I GUARANTEE that you could find several slightly used machines.

Tim Hall


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## Production Acres

got a brochure in the mail today from Marcrest advertising a Bale Baron. Heard talk of them before, but have never seen one. uses more or less a big square baler to repackage the bales with string instead of the bands - brochure is nice, machine looks good - and it isn't blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The new machines may be good, but the Bale-Bandits we had were never reliable enough to be used in the hay field - after 4 years of struggle, we put them in the barn behind a stationary baler and used them that way. No more hay rained on due to poor workmanship on the bandit.


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## TBrown

We looked at the Bale Baron. It is a very nice machine and its what I want. THe manufacturer is also in a lawsuit with GFC and cannot market the machine here. We have been very tempted to find us a "friend" in canada to get around it. I love the idea of using hesston knotter, which I use every day, twine i use everyday, simple turn table that won't catch strings and idiot electronics that even I can probably troubleshoot. The more I talk to people the more I find out the machine isn't the problem, its the guy behind it.


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## HALLSHAY

Wow
I have never seen the Bale Baron before. Looks alot better than the bandit. One thing is for sure, Hesston Knotters work in the hay field.


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## TBrown

Hopefully this lawsuit gets settled soon so he has time to make the hundreds of orders he is going to get!


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## deerrunhaycp

A buddy of mine had an '01 bale bandit, so many problems. We bought alot of his straw to send to our track customers, the bands broke the strings on almost every endbale. When every we brought the trailers back, we would have to rebale a ton of bales. It may work better if you use a wire baler, but horse people hate wire bales. Also the bands are a pain in the ass to get rid of, I don't know how many times I almost got wacked in the eye by a band whipping around. Anyway, he sold the machine cause he got sick of all the breakdowns, $1,000 software updates, and lack up service from GFC.

The bale baron seems way the hell better. Can't beat those hesston knotters. Do you know what they a charging for those things?


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## haybaler

Checked out the bale baron. I agree it looks pretty good. I had been figuring on taking the bands off and putting knotters on instead when the bands started to become unreliable, if it can be done. It would be a big winter project but hopefully have time to figure it out before needing to do it. When they are able to sell in the states it will definitely be bad for the bandit. Are they using a single or double knot?


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## Production Acres

Bale Baron can sell everywhere but the state of Ill. 
Short of having a steel chisel richochet into my eye last year, the only major injury we have had on our farm - 13 employees - was when one cut a band on a bundle of hay and the band flipped like they are bad to do and sliced his forearm open - trip to the doctor and about a dozen stiches.


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## Production Acres

the hydraulics suck on the Bale Bandit, but the die that crimps the band is not going to wear out any time soon - we had maybe over 300-400,000 bales thru one of our machines adn the die itself was still good - the fetcher that positions the strapping had to be rebuilt several times and was designed poorly. Additionally the top banding box was constantly full of hydraulic oil due to new leaks. Just way to many chinese hydraulic parts. solenoids looked like my son worked on them with a file. snap rings inside the manifold were constantly shearing. snap ring grooves are not deep enough and cheap steel.


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## JamesIII

Hey Production Acres, do you rebale from large rounds and then run them through the Bale-Bandit for transportation reasons? How does your rebaling operation work? I have often thought that would be the way to go. Here in Eastern Iowa the weather does not give one very many opportunities to bale good hay. I can always hire a round baler and usually for less than I can own one for and I am spread over 28 miles, I really could be in two places at once. JamesIII


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## Production Acres

We built a homemade unit, it requires 2 people to operate and takes a rd bale about every 10 minutes. We also were able to run big squares thru it. It works good on grass hay, but not on heavy alfalfa hays as you get too much leaf shatter on the bales when you dethacth the hay. The hay must be refluffed out of the dense "peel" it is in comming off the roll as all you do is shear bolts on the square baler otherwise. The entire system is 3 phase electric - even teh square baler is run off a 40 hp electric motor. Additionally, when you have a problem, 3 E-stop switches are located around the machine and pressing any one of them shuts the whole operation down instantly. We ran the bales into a bale bandit - and that was the most of our breakdowns on the whole unit - but we never had to handle another bale of hay after it was packaged. We also hand stacked the bales on pallets and ran the bales up hay elevators into trailers. You could probably also put them thru an accumulator. The entire system is for sale minus the sq baler as we sold the last small sq baler we had 2 weeks ago. WE replaced the entire system with a Steffen System Slicer. The unit will cost you $20,000! This inculdes electric control box, electic motor for baler, prep table for large bales, and unrolling/dethatching unit. I need to find a home for this unit!


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## kfarm_EC_IL

We have been rebaling with some luck, but I'm shearing the bolts as you say. How were you fluffing the hay?

I may try a use this more in the future, because it allows for a little flexibilty which is helpful.


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## Production Acres

rebaling takes a lot of pressure out of our lives. when we were using rd bales, #1. rd balers are a lot faster and more dependable than most sq bale operations, #2 with net wrap on your bales, they can take a small amount of dew or even a small shower before going to the barn, but try that on 5000 sq bales spread across the field, #3 rebaling allows you to purchase cheaper packages from other farmers and rebale them thus adding a value added commodity to your farm operation.
We use a high rpm flail that takes the sheet of hay comming from the "peel" off the rd bale and dethaches it. Works well and hasn't broken yet. even though we bought some hay out of OK last year that had fist sized rocks in it and several mesquite fenceposts the size of your leg in them. They didn't go through the baler real good. :.)


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## HALLSHAY

Slighty used bandit on e-bay. He's so proud of it he doesn't even mention it by name. search 2007 john deere 348. 60k, what a bargain.
HaHa


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## deerrunhaycp

There was six for sale on tractor house on fri. Today there's eight, wonder why that could be.


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## river rat

I bought a used bale bandit 3 years ago. I'm a small part time hay producer and wasn't making any money selling round bales. I knew there was a market for small sq. in my area but I also did not want to rely on hired help. 
The accumulator and hay grab method did not appeal to me either. I needed a way to make approx. 10-15 thousand small sq. a year by myself. The bale bandit seemed the way to go so 3yrs ago I bought one and I have to say I wouldn't still be doing this without one. When everything is going well I can put up 2000 bales and get them picked up and in the shed in a day by myself. Those are the days I love my bale bandit. However, there are days (mostly when I first bought it) I hate it. Most farmers are pretty fair mechanics and the bale bandit is no challange there. Most farmers are not so savy when it comes to electronics and that is where the bale bandit can bite you, it sure has me. Iv'e spent more than a few hours trying to figure out why something don't work then call GFC and 5 minutes later am rolling again. The people at GFC have been great to work with they can walk you through any problem. If I had all this to do over again I would have taken the training course at GFC and saved myself alot of frustration the first 2yrs. Yes, it took me that long before I figured out how to troubleshoot this machine on my own and quite a few phone calls to GFC. If you buy a bale bandit TAKE the course, don't make my mistake it will save you the frustration that I and I suspect others have felt because once I understood the machine it is now so easy. This machine has cost me approx. 500.00 dollars in parts in three yrs that I owned it. Truckers love the package and so do my regular customers. I can load a semi in 30 min. This machine makes me a profit I wouldn't otherwise have.


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## river rat

reloindex120 said:


> Really funny and innovative bargain.


What does that mean?


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## CLC379

not sure how he can claim patent infingment

is it because the strapping machines he copied were not pulled behind a hay baler?


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## hay rules

TBrown said:


> We looked at the Bale Baron. It is a very nice machine and its what I want. THe manufacturer is also in a lawsuit with GFC and cannot market the machine here. We have been very tempted to find us a "friend" in canada to get around it. I love the idea of using hesston knotter, which I use every day, twine i use everyday, simple turn table that won't catch strings and idiot electronics that even I can probably troubleshoot. The more I talk to people the more I find out the machine isn't the problem, its the guy behind it.


we had a bale baron and it had a seat welded on it and the computers are very very compex way more then the bandit they have a computer box on the baron you could sleep in 
the barons bundles fall apart beacuse you cant make the strings go tight enough to compinsate for the hay shrink

we had the bandit and the baron in the same feild and we bought the bandit hands down for more simple and proven we do 750 acers of hay and another 500 of straw evry year for the last ten with bandits and they have never left hay in the feild yet and yes you have to be a operater to run one and be machanically inclined beacuse if you need someone to hold your hand the hole time it is no wonder you get nothing done and the bandit cant cut the bale strings beacuse the strapping is cupped away from the strings if you have any more questions or concerns about the bandit let me know beacuse i will atest to the way they work the prof is in the pudding


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## paulbraeker

wow there seems to be a lot of myths being spread about the Bale Baron especially in one email!

First and foremost The Bale Baron does not come with a seat welded to it as stated by "hay rules" above.
The computer system is relatively simple and easy to diagnose.
"hay rules" is the first person to say that the bundles fall apart and the strings are to loose.
It sounds to me in his email that "hay rules" quite possibly could be a disgruntled manufacturing owner.
The new options for 2010 season has improved the Bale Baron from 650bales/hour to closer to the 850-900 bales/hour.
A new lube block to grease all the internal workings of the plunger and injection plunger cuts down on lube time.
A Regen Valve has improved the plunger speed by 80%.
This just a start at what is new for 2010 at Bale Baron.


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## river rat

paulbraeker said:


> wow there seems to be a lot of myths being spread about the Bale Baron especially in one email!
> 
> First and foremost The Bale Baron does not come with a seat welded to it as stated by "hay rules" above.
> The computer system is relatively simple and easy to diagnose.
> "hay rules" is the first person to say that the bundles fall apart and the strings are to loose.
> It sounds to me in his email that "hay rules" quite possibly could be a disgruntled manufacturing owner.
> The new options for 2010 season has improved the Bale Baron from 650bales/hour to closer to the 850-900 bales/hour.
> A new lube block to grease all the internal workings of the plunger and injection plunger cuts down on lube time.
> A Regen Valve has improved the plunger speed by 80%.
> This just a start at what is new for 2010 at Bale Baron.


 From what I read of hay rules posts on the bale bandit what he says I can tell you from personal experiance is true. As far as the bale baron unfortunatly I have no first hand experiance but few people have run both and it sounds like he has and he did not care for it. Does that make it a bad machine? Maybe he had a demo machine out there and they had a seat on it for whatever reason. Maybe it was set up improperly and the bundle did not squeeze enough before the strings tied and the bundles were loose, no different than a loose bale of hay. Without a more detailed explanation its hard to tell. He has had good luck with the bandit and in his opinion the baron did not measure up. There are a couple of people on this forum that have had bale bandits and couldn't get rid of them fast enough. I don't know which one is best but the the whole purpose of this forum is to ask questions and share experiance. Maybe hay rules will share more details of his experiance with both because as a bandit owner I find this topic very interesting. I like my bale bandit but if the baron is better I'm not too proud to switch.

Paulbraeker what is your experiance with either one?


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## tdjjjs

River rat, I could not tell where you were located or what king of hay you put up? I am leaning towards switching to small square hay production of primarily alfalfa or dairy blends. I wanted to produce 15-20K bales per year eventually, but the reality of handling all those loose bales essentially by myself, even with an accumulator, is making me rethink the whole process. I will need to be able to QUICKLY stack the hay in my sheds and feel the extra time to strap and brace accumulator grabs will hurt overall efficiency. Is this the reason you bought the bandit?

I have been to bale bandits website (bale barron's too) and do not buy the financial arguement that it will pay for itself that quickly over large squares. But...I am new to the hay business and feel starting with 30-40 acres of small squares is less of a risky business than buying a 3x3 baler. I want to learn with small squares and as experience permits, move up to 100+ acres using an accumulator or bandit/barron.


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## MikeRF

hay rules said:


> we had a bale baron and it had a seat welded on it and the computers are very very compex way more then the bandit they have a computer box on the baron you could sleep in
> the barons bundles fall apart beacuse you cant make the strings go tight enough to compinsate for the hay shrink
> 
> we had the bandit and the baron in the same feild and we bought the bandit hands down for more simple and proven we do 750 acers of hay and another 500 of straw evry year for the last ten with bandits and they have never left hay in the feild yet and yes you have to be a operater to run one and be machanically inclined beacuse if you need someone to hold your hand the hole time it is no wonder you get nothing done and the bandit cant cut the bale strings beacuse the strapping is cupped away from the strings if you have any more questions or concerns about the bandit let me know beacuse i will atest to the way they work the prof is in the pudding


We have made 6000+ bundles with our Baron in the last 2 seasons. Less than 10 have broken apart before intended and all of those were through careless loader operation pushing out the middle tier (usually around sunset). A pain when it happens but unfair to blame the machine.
We use the grapple for handling the bundles back out of storage so if there has been any shrinkage to allow the twines to loosen fractionally it is never enough to notice. 
Hayrules, what kind of capacity you get from your Bandit?


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## MikeRF

tdjjjs said:


> River rat, I could not tell where you were located or what king of hay you put up? I am leaning towards switching to small square hay production of primarily alfalfa or dairy blends. I wanted to produce 15-20K bales per year eventually, but the reality of handling all those loose bales essentially by myself, even with an accumulator, is making me rethink the whole process. I will need to be able to QUICKLY stack the hay in my sheds and feel the extra time to strap and brace accumulator grabs will hurt overall efficiency. Is this the reason you bought the bandit?
> 
> I have been to bale bandits website (bale barron's too) and do not buy the financial arguement that it will pay for itself that quickly over large squares. But...I am new to the hay business and feel starting with 30-40 acres of small squares is less of a risky business than buying a 3x3 baler. I want to learn with small squares and as experience permits, move up to 100+ acres using an accumulator or bandit/barron.


From a marketability standpoint I think there is a few 3x3 guys in this part of the world that would have rethought their decision given the handling systems that are available for small squares now.


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## river rat

tdjjjs said:


> River rat, I could not tell where you were located or what king of hay you put up? I am leaning towards switching to small square hay production of primarily alfalfa or dairy blends. I wanted to produce 15-20K bales per year eventually, but the reality of handling all those loose bales essentially by myself, even with an accumulator, is making me rethink the whole process. I will need to be able to QUICKLY stack the hay in my sheds and feel the extra time to strap and brace accumulator grabs will hurt overall efficiency. Is this the reason you bought the bandit?
> 
> I have been to bale bandits website (bale barron's too) and do not buy the financial arguement that it will pay for itself that quickly over large squares. But...I am new to the hay business and feel starting with 30-40 acres of small squares is less of a risky business than buying a 3x3 baler. I want to learn with small squares and as experience permits, move up to 100+ acres using an accumulator or bandit/barron.


 I mostly grow an alfalfa/orchard blend and alfalfa for the horse market. I was fortunate enough to find a disatisfied owner of a bale bandit who was motivated to sell and bought mine for around $23,000. Only way it would pencil out for me otherwise was an accumualtor and grab. It paid for itself in less than a year and a half. I am in eastern So. Dakota mostly under the Big Sioux River right now.


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## Penncountryboy

hi hay rules, I am new to this site but really appreciate all the insight you have given about the bale bandit. Im a hay and straw farmer in eastern Pennsylvania, and this is the first year we have a bale bandit. Its a 2006 model with updates to 2009 specs from the factory. I was hoping maybe you could help me trouble shoot my machine a little bit. my problem is the rear most bale on the bottom corner of the bundle (the first bale to touch the ground out of the machine) wants to break the string when the bundle sets off. Problem is definitely the banding cutting the string. I have been scrutinizing the machine but must be missing something. I am running 350 knot strength on the side that is breaking and 240 knot strength on the other. I have the banding tension backed off all the way and my back door cylinders stroke out approx. 3-3.5 inches. My bales are tight and about 38 inches in length. my crimping rollers are crimping the banding but the one definitely crimps better than the other. Have you made any modifications to these rollers? Most of the time my travel speed is 3-4 mph when unloading. What kind of capacity do you see running your bandits?(bales per hour) Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.


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## 6125

I've had the same problem, mostly with later grass cuttings and oats straw. Too much friction/drag coming off the table seems to be the problem. Timothy and wheat straw not so much. This table either needs a set of rollers, or some sort of material added to it to make it want to slide better. Most of the time, my windrows are bigger now and only baling at 1.8 - 2.2 mph. That seems to be helping me the most. Good luck, let us know what you found to work.


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## SVFHAY

penncountry, it sounds like your doing a lot of things right. Does one side cut the strings more often? Check for drag just after tie cycle. Check brake pad for proper clearance on vert surface of banding drum. lube drum shaft. Check for proper threading of strap. Stop machine after strap guide arms go to the floor but before horiz plunger starts back, remove bales on top of arms and check alignment of arms to raised rail on bottom of chamber, it must lay strap in the groove not on the edge of rail or it will cut nearly every bale. Arm can be shimed some but still must match with fetchers during tie cycle.

If all above is correct move to the baler. Inlines rarely cut strings, Deere a little more often and NH is the worst. String placement is the key and it can move some by the time it is in place in the package. Follow directions in baler manual in adjusting packer forks. Stand bales on end and check for banana shapes and square ends. This adjustment will change with crop conditions and speed, but if string gets too close to bale edge there is less you can do to stop cutting strings.

Speed when tailgate goes down is easy to control and will go a long way to solve this issue.

Good luck
Kelly


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## SVFHAY

One last thought, pull both of your crimp rollers and try it. They cause drag and that is the enemy. Often this problem is worse with a full roll of banding as more mass to move = more drag.

Kelly


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## mlappin

MikeRF said:


> From a marketability standpoint I think there is a few 3x3 guys in this part of the world that would have rethought their decision given the handling systems that are available for small squares now.


Been quite awhile since I've made any small squares, but does a small square baler even exist yet that has near the capacity as a 3x3 baler? Would have to be a hell of a baler to be able to spit small squares out fast enough to match a 3x3.

I know I don't have any problems making a 1000lb round bale including wrapping and discharging it in a minute or less in good first cutting, so a small square baler would have to be able to make 20 bales a minute or one every 3 seconds. A large square baler should have more capacity than my round baler as there is no stopping for each bale.

Using 50 lbs for the weight of the small square as in my area with all the Amish having their kids doing chores and also figuring the majority of horse owners are women, fifty pound smalls always got the best price out of the barn or the auctions.


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## Rodney R

mlappin,
The old rule of thumb was to figure that one 3x3 baler will do as much baling as 3 small square balers. I had counted many years ago, but I think we were popping a bale out every 7-8 seconds, in good hay.

Rodney


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## MikeRF

mlappin said:


> Been quite awhile since I've made any small squares, but does a small square baler even exist yet that has near the capacity as a 3x3 baler? Would have to be a hell of a baler to be able to spit small squares out fast enough to match a 3x3.
> 
> I know I don't have any problems making a 1000lb round bale including wrapping and discharging it in a minute or less in good first cutting, so a small square baler would have to be able to make 20 bales a minute or one every 3 seconds. A large square baler should have more capacity than my round baler as there is no stopping for each bale.
> 
> Using 50 lbs for the weight of the small square as in my area with all the Amish having their kids doing chores and also figuring the majority of horse owners are women, fifty pound smalls always got the best price out of the barn or the auctions.


Our 575 and Bale Baron combination will eat just under 600lbs per minute in really good going. 
Certainly true in Ontario that what you lose in capacity with a small bale system you gain twofold in marketability with the vast horse population here.


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## river rat

Penncountryboy said:


> hi hay rules, I am new to this site but really appreciate all the insight you have given about the bale bandit. Im a hay and straw farmer in eastern Pennsylvania, and this is the first year we have a bale bandit. Its a 2006 model with updates to 2009 specs from the factory. I was hoping maybe you could help me trouble shoot my machine a little bit. my problem is the rear most bale on the bottom corner of the bundle (the first bale to touch the ground out of the machine) wants to break the string when the bundle sets off. Problem is definitely the banding cutting the string. I have been scrutinizing the machine but must be missing something. I am running 350 knot strength on the side that is breaking and 240 knot strength on the other. I have the banding tension backed off all the way and my back door cylinders stroke out approx. 3-3.5 inches. My bales are tight and about 38 inches in length. my crimping rollers are crimping the banding but the one definitely crimps better than the other. Have you made any modifications to these rollers? Most of the time my travel speed is 3-4 mph when unloading. What kind of capacity do you see running your bandits?(bales per hour) Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.


 My Bale Bandit used to cut the twine on the same bale as yours and once in a while still does. I found the crimper rollers are best left inoperative. Its a nice concept but not worth the effort. My right hand strap was doing all the cutting so I adjusted the left rear cylinder a little tighter until both straps were the same tension and almost eliminated the problem. Dropping a bundle during a turn causes most of mine now. Have you called Owen at GFC? He is very helpful.
How many bundles have you run through your machine so far?


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## Penncountryboy

River rat, I have spoke with Owen and Randy out at GFC they have been very helpful. Currently we have run 860 bundles through our machine this year. How did you adjust your rear door cylinders? The cylinders on our machine differ usually about 1 to 1.5 inches. I have made some adjustments thanks to svf hay's recommendations and will be baling some alfalfa tomorrow so I anticipate some improvement. Thanks River rat for your input. I will let everyone know what worked once we get this problem figured out.


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## river rat

Penncountryboy said:


> River rat, I have spoke with Owen and Randy out at GFC they have been very helpful. Currently we have run 860 bundles through our machine this year. How did you adjust your rear door cylinders? The cylinders on our machine differ usually about 1 to 1.5 inches. I have made some adjustments thanks to svf hay's recommendations and will be baling some alfalfa tomorrow so I anticipate some improvement. Thanks River rat for your input. I will let everyone know what worked once we get this problem figured out.


Sorry for the delay. I adjusted my rear cyl. on the door that was not closing as tight by shortening the clevis end that is threaded into the ram. I'm talking about the cyls. that suck in just before the horizontal plunger takes its final stroke for banding.

Looks like you are making that Bale Bandit earn its keep at 860 bundles so far. I have only run about 200 through mine so far due to record summer rainfall here in SE So Dakota.


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## Randy Litton

Bale Bandit has steep learning curve, but works the best of all concepts researched prior to purchase. We built a hydraulic Bundle Squeeze (see gallery -Bale Bundle Clamp Compilation 01- for specs and photos.


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