# Rough start



## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

My field is giving me fits. I planted a 70/30 mix of alfalfa to OG. After the oats came off the crab grass was so thick it had to be sprayed. Resulted in losing my OG which I can swallow. Was sprayed about 3 weeks ago. The alfalfa is now coming through and about 3-4 inches tall. I had the company I bought my seed frm look at it. They advised to reseed about 10 lbs/acre, to which they will pay 1/2. It's been fertilized already as well, had plenty of rain, and looks like crap. It had 2-2 1/2 tons of lime spread last fall. This is also sand ground. What the heck am I missing? My other field at my place is about 50% better ground and the alfalfa is looking GREAT! What am I doing wrong?! If I do any more fields, I'm going to direct seed RR alfalfa, and spray the dog crap out of it from the start. That's all I can think of. This has to go well. My father n law, whom I'm renting from is watching. Thanks


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

What was the crop prior to the alfalfa?


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Corn


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Atrazine?

Regards, Mike


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm not sure...I don't thnk so though... Some places 5 plants per foot, some the recommended 10...


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

My thoughts are with Mike, some type of chemical carry over maybe. If you have the weeds under control, you could look at no-tilling orchardgrass back in.

The plants that came up, how do they look?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Unless it was a corn on corn rotation before I don't think atrazine carryover would be a problem especially if they normally follow corn with beans.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

rjbaustian said:


> My field is giving me fits. I planted a 70/30 mix of alfalfa to OG. After the oats came off the crab grass was so thick it had to be sprayed. Resulted in losing my OG which I can swallow. Was sprayed about 3 weeks ago. The alfalfa is now coming through and about 3-4 inches tall. I had the company I bought my seed frm look at it. They advised to reseed about 10 lbs/acre, to which they will pay 1/2. It's been fertilized already as well, had plenty of rain, and looks like crap. It had 2-2 1/2 tons of lime spread last fall. This is also sand ground. What the heck am I missing? My other field at my place is about 50% better ground and the alfalfa is looking GREAT! What am I doing wrong?! If I do any more fields, I'm going to direct seed RR alfalfa, and spray the dog crap out of it from the start. That's all I can think of. This has to go well. My father n law, whom I'm renting from is watching. Thanks


This is why I started growing teff. I had the timothy field from hell-herbicide carryover,etc. Planted teff this year in tilled ground was my solution to taking a "time out" in the field. Had the crab grass issue, speedwell issue, henbit and chickweed issue and no timothy stand issue. Hope overseeding with rupr alfalfa and spraying next spring works for you.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

The plants that came up look great. I'm wondering if I'm still pretty low on lime. It wasn't a producer field really before, so I don't think he put a lot in it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

rjbaustian said:


> The plants that came up look great. I'm wondering if I'm still pretty low on lime. It wasn't a producer field really before, so I don't think he put a lot in it.


What the soil analysis look like?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Did the fertilizer applied include boron. Liming acid soils ties up plant-available soil boron. While corn and most grasses may not respond to boron, alfalfa can use 3 to 4 lb actual boron per acre. That amounts to 21 - 28 lb Granubor-2 per acre. Research has shown a 2 ton/acre alfalfa yield increase when 4 lb of B/ac was applied on sandy acid soil limed with 2 tons fine (ECCE 100) limestone/acre that raised pH above 7.0. This was on Coastal Plain soil in East Texas. Your soils likely are different, containing more organic matter to supply B.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

RJ-I agree with the boron comments and I have also found here in our area that after someone mines the nutrients out of a field for years, it takes about 5 years to fully build it back up. Just does not happen with one heavy app. Just a thought.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I feel ya. I have been "gifted" with the opportunity to bring back some fields completely stripped of nutrients. One analysis indicated 12tpa of lime was needed just to give you an inkling. I'm still doing covers and plowdowns with split applications. It is slow going but I'm seeing improvement at the end of years two and three. Corn on corn ground that has been tilled every year with no cover can deplete all organic material. Keep at it watch your soil tests and control your inputs and hopefully you can be profitable while renovating the ground.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Waiting on the soil test now. I don't know about the boron, but I'll ask. 2 ton/acre is a LOT of money, wow!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

vhaby said:


> Did the fertilizer applied include boron. Liming acid soils ties up plant-available soil boron. While corn and most grasses may not respond to boron, alfalfa can use 3 to 4 lb actual boron per acre. That amounts to 21 - 28 lb Granubor-2 per acre. Research has shown a 2 ton/acre alfalfa yield increase when 4 lb of B/ac was applied on sandy acid soil limed with 2 tons fine (ECCE 100) limestone/acre that raised pH above 7.0. This was on Coastal Plain soil in East Texas. Your soils likely are different, containing more organic matter to supply B.


Must be different soil types around here then as we've been told over and over to never add boron until the stand is at least a year old. 2lb to the acre is also the maximum recommended to apply at one time. I agree though that boron can make a world of difference in a field.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm at a loss. I just checked it tonight and I've got new crab grass coming heavy. I dropped 2K in spray and fertilizer a few weeks ago and it's gotten me nowhere. I talked with my father in law and he said there COULD have been atrazine on it in the past, but he's not sure when. It would have been sprayed the exact same as the field at my house, and that's growing great. Difference is the ground quality. So, I don't think it's the atrazine. If sand ground was going to take off, it'd have Been this year. I'm thinking I'm losing the 4k in seed and the 2-2500 in spray and fertilizer.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I do not know much about alfalfa so i cant say much about health of the alfalfa but if the crabgrass is not so thick to choke out what is left of the alfalfa you might want to leave it and take a cutting of alfalfa crabgrass mix. I found out last year crabgrass can make some pretty decent hay and doesn't look too bad in the bale either however it does take a little longer to dry. 
I wonder if a tissue test would show if there is a nutrient deficiency in your alfalfa that needs to be taken care of. If you can figure out what is wrong with the alfalfa and get that fixed you might could no till some orchard grass into what is left of the alfalfa and end up with a nice mix. What did you spray the alfalfa with earlier? Since crabgrass is an annual as long as there is a large seed bank in the soil you will have some that will sprout after the first flush was killed off by the herbicide.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm not sure.... I'm very frustrated..... Soil results are in, but my wonderful agronomist hasn't looked at them, till I chewed on his butt this am.... Hopefully hear this afternoon. My bet is its waaaaaay low on lime, couldn't be anything else that I can think of


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I'd be interested to know what your agronomist recommends. Never hurts to put a lil more info in the noggin. I'm just now starting to get into the micronutrients on these fields Ive got. Figured I'd correct the ph first and then amend from there. Sounds like a similar situation.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Finally got the results of the soil tests. They show everything is pretty much in line. Could use a little lime this winter, which I figured. Not enough to cause my problems though. The alfalfa company is providing me with enough free seed to interseed 12 lbs per acre. Thought that was fair. The problem NOW is that coop has cost me so much friggen money. Took them 2-3 weeks to spray the field to kill the crab grass the 1st time. Didn't work well enough, required a respray, which is paid for. We're supposed to do it LAST Monday. I'm so friggen pissed off. I was very stern with the salesman a few days ago. Tomorrow I am going off the deep end on him. They are costing ME money to use them. And now I'm not sure i should interseed this year because its too hot, not enough moisture, and frost will be here in a month to 6 weeks.....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjbaustian said:


> Finally got the results of the soil tests. They show everything is pretty much in line. Could use a little lime this winter, which I figured. Not enough to cause my problems though. The alfalfa company is providing me with enough free seed to interseed 12 lbs per acre. Thought that was fair. The problem NOW is that coop has cost me so much friggen money. Took them 2-3 weeks to spray the field to kill the crab grass the 1st time. Didn't work well enough, required a respray, which is paid for. We're supposed to do it LAST Monday. I'm so friggen pissed off. I was very stern with the salesman a few days ago. Tomorrow I am going off the deep end on him. They are costing ME money to use them. And now I'm not sure i should interseed this year because its too hot, not enough moisture, and frost will be here in a month to 6 weeks.....


That's why we quit using other people to do stuff we can do ourselves. Do our own fertilizer spreading and spraying, even own our own trencher for installing tile, other people either keep you waiting or they show up after an excessive moisture event and think they aren't going to rut everything up on our heavy soils. Even bought a set of bin jacks at an auction dirt cheap as got tired on waiting to be able to rent some. Have three bins that will be up before harvest starts.


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

Wishi had that luxury. When ya work off the farm full time, it's hard enough farming, not to mention doing the spraying and spreading too.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

mlappin said:


> That's why we quit using other people to do stuff we can do ourselves. Do our own fertilizer spreading and spraying, even own our own trencher for installing tile, other people either keep you waiting or they show up after an excessive moisture event and think they aren't going to rut everything up on our heavy soils. Even bought a set of bin jacks at an auction dirt cheap as got tired on waiting to be able to rent some. Have three bins that will be up before harvest starts.


Owning a sprayer is an absolute must! I am in the middle of corn, bean, and produce country so the local co-ops are not even going to think about cleaning a rig out for hay. I run a little over 800 acres but I have been over 2000+ acres with the sprayer this year. Plus, the co-op charges $8/acre so I would have had 16 grand just in spray for hire. My $18,000 sprayer is on its 8th season and has sprayed over 15,000 acres. I spray 60 acres/hour and use about 4 gallons fuel/hour so my labor and fuel cost are minimal. I also own a spinner spreader but I am having some fertilizer spread with VRT and have not doled out the dough for my own VRT spreader.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjbaustian said:


> Wishi had that luxury. When ya work off the farm full time, it's hard enough farming, not to mention doing the spraying and spreading too.


Oh I know, we just didn't run out and buy everything overnight. Took generations to get where we are at.


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