# What is the best way to make dry Hay?



## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

There are members all over the US and Canada. With all different conditions. So this topic should get nailed down pretty good.

I need help figuring out what is the best way and fastest way to make nice green dry hay without adding any preservatives.

What machines used and the timing of each operation.

Seems like the rotary tedders are the favorable type of tedder to use. Then I read to tedd 3 to 4 hours after cutting or the next morning right after the dew burns off.
Also looking for methods of less leaf loss and the highest quality hay. I seen I think it was Georgia state has a contest every year on the best quality hay contest. Was it from U-tube that I seen this?????
On lets say we have these conditions to work with!

The day before we have a slow soaking rain all day, let's say 2 inch. The next 4 days will be nice and sunny with the 3 day patchy cloud cover with gusts of only 5 miles an hour. Day four clouds clearing after 11.00 AM. With full sunshine and light breeze.

I like to set it up so I don't drive on hay, as little as possible. Headlands always get it as everyone knows. I like to leave open ground in between windrows. So when I rake it has dry ground.

That's what don't make sense to me with tedding only hours after cutting. The ground never gets a chance to dry out as much as if left open in between wind rows.
It will be a relief to get come answers to clear this up from the guys with years of making hay and fighting the unknown! ( the weather )


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

TORCH said:


> I need help figuring out what is the best way and fastest way to make nice green dry hay without adding any preservatives.


Move out West.... 

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If you are talking alfalfa you can add a touch of grass and it will help the drying process.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> Move out West....
> 
> Regares, Mike


Or to Texas


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Here's what we're all saying:

Every area, even as little as going 50-75 miles has different approaches and requirements. I'm between the Illinois and Mississippi rivers, about 2 miles away for each. The Missouri river is about 6-7 miles tow the south of me. I get a LOT of local humidity from them, seldom below 60%.

But, if I go 50 miles east or west, the humidity changes tremendously. I need 4-5 days to dry in the same conditions where those guys might only need 3-4 days.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## TORCH (Jan 7, 2012)

I wanted to do that my whole life! Unfortunately my main income does not come from farming.

Did not inherit family farm, don't have rich uncle ect.

Next to impossible to make it big from starting from nothing except the love of farming and hard work.
Spend every penny on this adventure in living off the land.

The one thing I will never forget is!

A guy spends his whole life building his farm. To only have an auction company come in and sell it all in an afternoon.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Here's what we're all saying:
> 
> Every area, even as little as going 50-75 miles has different approaches and requirements. I'm between the Illinois and Mississippi rivers, about 2 miles away for each. The Missouri river is about 6-7 miles tow the south of me. I get a LOT of local humidity from them, seldom below 60%.
> 
> ...


I can go as little as few miles and drying hay is night and day from the heavy clay to the light sand.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I can go as little as few miles and drying hay is night and day from the heavy clay to the light sand.


I live 1.5 miles from a fairly big lake. Also farm land that boarders the lake. On baling day at my place I could bale from about 1pm to 6 between the dews. Right beside the lake it was only about two hour window. From about two to four. Got another 160 acres that really just a big hill. Go up about 300 feet than head right ba ck down. The top of the hill is either wetter or drier than anywhere else. Conclusion. Location means everything.


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## GOOD HAY (Aug 8, 2010)

I guess you can gather from the other guys that there are lots of variables to making dry hay and I have always contended that it is more "art" than "science". The text book gives you the general idea but out in the field it is a whole different ball game. It is all the little things that make a success or a salvage operation. Like as you say, to decide whether to lay the swath out wide or try to get some dry ground to ted the hay out over, is the drying index going to be high enough today that I can rake when the hay is still a little tough or will I do another quick tedding job and rake just before baling, is there enough grass in the mixture on this field that the windrows will dry fast or is there more legume this year and it will need another couple of hours and just when can we expect that cloud bank to arrive. These are just some of the variables that experience teaches how to deal with. We know our crops, we know our different fields and the capability and capacity of our equipment systems so that we are able to be quite successful a large part of the time. In our area we are fortunate to have fairly accurate and predictable weather forecasts. At six in the morning and at nine at night I look over three or four of them to try to detect trends that may be developing, comparing what has actually happened to what was forecast three or four days ago. We are also lucky to live not far from the U.S. border so Northern New York forecasts are sometimes helpful in addition to Environment Canada, Farm Zone, and Accuweather. You have to use all the resources that are available and sometimes just shear good luck comes into play. I have a little saying that I use, "God helps those who help themselves", but it is up to us to recognize when God is trying to help us. You make your own good luck by being prepared and ready to make hay when the sun shines, not doing a dozen other things that have nothing to do with getting a good crop under cover. A bit long winded but I think you will get the idea.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Best way and fastest way are gonna be different most times. I will use a different approach on any given day determined by weather, crop yield, social calendar, etc.

For grass mixes I prefer 100% ground coverage early and ted daily and rotary rake when top is just beginning to get crispy, followed promptly by baler.

Alfalfa, well let's hope the weather is with you and you handle with care.

On most days I can make at least one perfect bale. That won't pay the bills. To be viable in my climate requires some compromise.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

It has been my observation that those the succeed and become the very best in their given fields are those that dedicate them selves to their trade whether it is sport professional who spend hours and hours going over films of their opponents, learning everything there is to know about them, Immersing themselves in their given profession, it's history, current trends, what is new. The best teacher is experience, getting out trying to be the best at what you do, learning from your mistakes and trying not to repeat them. We all make mistakes learning our craft, it is what we learn in making those mistakes and how we apply what we've learned to ensure we don't repeat those mistakes over and over, coupled with the willingness to change is what can make us hay guru's lol that along with lots of prayer and a bit of good luck.... along with everything every one above me said.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

TORCH said:


> There are members all over the US and Canada. With all different conditions. So this topic should get nailed down pretty good.I need help figuring out what is the best way and fastest way to make nice green dry hay without adding any preservatives.What machines used and the timing of each operation.Seems like the rotary tedders are the favorable type of tedder to use. Then I read to tedd 3 to 4 hours after cutting or the next morning right after the dew burns off.Also looking for methods of less leaf loss and the highest quality hay. I seen I think it was Georgia state has a contest every year on the best quality hay contest. Was it from U-tube that I seen this?????On lets say we have these conditions to work with!The day before we have a slow soaking rain all day, let's say 2 inch. The next 4 days will be nice and sunny with the 3 day patchy cloud cover with gusts of only 5 miles an hour. Day four clouds clearing after 11.00 AM. With full sunshine and light breeze.I like to set it up so I don't drive on hay, as little as possible. Headlands always get it as everyone knows. I like to leave open ground in between windrows. So when I rake it has dry ground.That's what don't make sense to me with tedding only hours after cutting. The ground never gets a chance to dry out as much as if left open in between wind rows.It will be a relief to get come answers to clear this up from the guys with years of making hay and fighting the unknown! ( the weather )


I'm still pretty much a beginner. I can make hay efficiently all day no problem. I can even make dry hay. Now I'm learning how to make dry hay efficiently that's GOOD hay, too. 
Takes a few years to do all 3 on a consistent basis. I'm going into my 4 the season and I guess my biggest thoughts in your questions are:
If you have humid or highly variable weather, invest money in a really good, strong, big TEDDER. Most guys make the Tedder an afterthought and concentrate on trucks and tractors, which are admittedly a lot more fun. 
Not sure why you don't want a hay preservation system, but you may want to reconsider. 
If you plan of selling good hay after you learn to make it, you'll need a good, dry, solid barn to store it in. 
I make almost 400 tons of hay per year, but I can only store 1/8th of it inside at any given time. Unfortunately, The rest, even some I have taken great to make, goes to mulch hay. As soon as I can locate a place to build more storage, I will.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

It's actually pretty simple to make dry hay. Cut, let it dry and cure, bale. That pesky weather just sometimes can get in the way. Plus all the different types of equipment you can use to cut, rake and bale adds to the fun.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Hay dryer. You didn't say cheapest way.



TORCH said:


> I need help figuring out what is the best way and fastest way to make nice green dry hay without adding any preservatives.


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## socohay (Jul 21, 2015)

The two biggest needs are patience followed by good weather!


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

IMHO - you are after two things, and they can drive you in different directions. We're selling our square bales into the horse market, so dry and color are most important.

I feel you need a weather window that will allow enough time - roll of the dice around here.

Haybine or discbine to cut and CONDITION the hay in one pass. Ted once - second day. If dry, bale on the third, if not wait another day.

Reason I say ted once is to preserve color. IMHO, the more you flip and turn the hay, sure it's going to dry faster, but you loose color as the sun bleaches it. Conditioning ought to make up for some tedding beyond the first pass.

However, I'm going to try to add propionic acid perservative this year. I've had a few dusty bales from a couple of spots. To the horse customer, I can explain preservative, no talking around dust.

That's my story - YMMV.

GOOD LUCK,
BILL


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

leeave96 said:


> IMHO - you are after two things, and they can drive you in different directions. We're selling our square bales into the horse market, so dry and color are most important.
> 
> I feel you need a weather window that will allow enough time - roll of the dice around here.
> 
> ...


Took me a while to learn this.

Tedder is important, but overuse results in loss of color. It's "ok" if *one* side is bleached, because other side is nice & green. Looks attractive to buyer = more profits.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

leeave96 said:


> Haybine or discbine to cut and CONDITION the hay in one pass. Ted once - second day. If dry, bale on the third, if not wait another day.
> 
> Reason I say ted once is to preserve color. IMHO, the more you flip and turn the hay, sure it's going to dry faster, but you loose color as the sun bleaches it. Conditioning ought to make up for some tedding beyond the first pass.


I agree--ted once, but do it right!

In most cases, I ted alfalfa about 12 hours after mowing. For me, there is still enough moisture to keep the leaves on. More than 12 hours, I start to see leaf shatter on the top.

For grass, I ted about 24 hours after mowing. This allows the top to dry while preserving color on the bottom. My belief is that the grass blade is still respiring, and by this, I mean it is "breathing out" moisture.

By "doing it right", I mean getting my windrow and tedder matched up so that I am picking up two mower windrows and spreading it evenly form edge to edge. I matched my tedder width so that it covers two mower (10'6") widths. RPM on the tedder is set so that it throws "just far enough". Tedder height is set so that it picks up the full mower windrow.

Just some thoughts.

Ralph


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## Coalburner (Jan 8, 2016)

With our operation, we don't tedder the hay (because color really doesn't matter to our cows?) But, was wondering is there a protein increase by tedding on the next day? Or is it just a selling point to have greener hay? Here in NW Louisiana humidity does affect drying time also.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tedding enhances the drying process.....no protein increase, no greener hay.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Here tedding is tied to protein only because if you don't ted enough you are gonna miss your window and be baling washed out mouldy hay instead.

I prefer to use one tedder pass but 2 is the norm. If we get into the doldrums of cloudy days or no wind high humidity it can take up to 4 passes.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Making DRY green hay the last few years has been very difficult, especially 1st cutting the last week in May or early June. A couple of years ago I sold 1st crop off the field to a local dairy and they chopped it for haylage and that left the other crops for me to make that year. July and August are usually a little better for dry hay. The other thing is a plan B like round bale or big square baleage. I know that takes a person out of the horse hay market but moldy or rained on hay does that anyway. I've had times where I call a friend who does alot of big square baling to see if anyone else is getting hay dry and he will tell me nobody is making dry hay. One thing others have said is so true. If you go an hour south or north of us there can be a huge difference in the weather.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

slowzuki said:


> Here tedding is tied to protein only because if you don't ted enough you are gonna miss your window and be baling washed out mouldy hay instead.
> 
> I prefer to use one tedder pass but 2 is the norm. If we get into the doldrums of cloudy days or no wind high humidity it can take up to 4 passes.


I'm curious--what is it about your environment that requires that much tedding? I checked where you're at and I'm wondering if the combination of lack of direct sun and cooler temps affect drying that much?

I have high humidity but I'm guessing I get warmer temps and a more direct sun light than you. Do you have heavy dews? When do they burn off?

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

There are multiple factors.

1) Next to ocean relatively.

2) Next to big river immediately.

3) Weather patterns we have in the summer are hot humid with no wind or cloudy and not so hot but still humid or if we get wind and sun, it means the rain is pushing in fast, usually that afternoon.

4)Heavy dews.

Hay making runs from June (sometimes late June) until mid September. Balage guys can start last week of May until mid to late Sept.

In that say 100 days, we get measurable rain something like 60 or 70 of those days, and I think its something like 20 inches of rain but some years its 30+. On the days it doesn't rain we get a heavy dew all but maybe 3-4 nights in August. The normal dew in July after a 90-95 degree day takes until about 10 am to burn off standing grass on a good sunny day and it sets again at about 7 pm. If I leave a windrow that is ready to bale at 7 pm overnight, I can't start baling it again until about noon or 1 pm and it has to be rolled over to sit for an hour or the bottom will never get dry enough.

On a semi-overcast day we peak at about 75-85 F and nothing out of the direct light dries as the humidity is high.

The soil is always wet so once you rake the backside of the swath is taking on moisture almost as fast as the top side can get rid of it. If I sit a 5 gal fuel jug on the ground for 10 min and pick it up the bottom will be wet except in that dry spell in august.

There is often 1-2 weeks in August that is hot and dry and easy to make hay similar to how folks on here talk about, mowing and raking and having it dry in the windrow but its still a risky affair as it still likes to rain at the wrong time then too.

I should add too the forecasting using to be better but the cut the local guy and replaced with a computer program that can't predict 15 mins ahead never mind a 2-3 day outlook.



rjmoses said:


> I'm curious--what is it about your environment that requires that much tedding? I checked where you're at and I'm wondering if the combination of lack of direct sun and cooler temps affect drying that much?
> 
> I have high humidity but I'm guessing I get warmer temps and a more direct sun light than you. Do you have heavy dews? When do they burn off?
> 
> Ralph


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Dew was one of the things that gave us alot of trouble last year. Heavy dew till 10 or 11am then hurry up and get raking give it a couple hours then bale. Neighbor plugged the big square baler one evening by the time we got it unplugged the tires were coming up wet. Same thing with cutting if your not a fan of cutting with water on the hay you had to wait till almost noon to cut and you don't get as much drying the first day. Couple years ago when we had a real dry spell I raked hay at 5am just so the hay was still tough.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

^^^^^^^

Thanks, slow!

I thought I had a tough environment with the rivers but your is much worse. With the ground moisture, I can easily see why you have to ted several times. The underside is picking up moisture almost as fast as the top side is drying.

My dew pattern runs about the same as yours. If I can't get it baled by 7PM, I'm pretty much done for the day.

One trick I use on wet ground is to mow really tall. The taller stubble tends to keep the crop off the ground and allow more air to circulate through it. But, with heavy dew, the crop will want to sag down to the ground.

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Late first cut the long stubble works quite well, early the stubble isn't quite strong enough.

We also have a problem with smooth bedstraw in our fields, that junk takes forever to dry the stems down. Going to start nuking it this summer.

due to rocks and rock piles our fields are small, despite the benefits to the deer I've been working to remove the trees and piles to consolidate fields as it improves drying.

I've also been building surface drainage around some of our fields that receive run off, for example our largest rented field currently has a 12" deep 100 ft wide stream from the rain last night because beavers built a dam on an adjacent property. Neighbours hunt ducks on the pond so they don't like people breaking the dam but I may have to drain it for hay season.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

we are about 150 miles west south west of slowzuki and it's the same here. this is early in the season when the sun goes down around 9 pm. we start mowing with disk mower/contitioners about 5 am. if the ground is wet we mow in windrows, then as soon as the ground is dry we tedd the hay out. probably around 10-12 the first day. then we will tedd again at around 2-3. second day we will tedd as soon as dew is off any where from 7-9. then if ready we will rake about noon time and start baling. if not we will go into what we call spin drying and tedd as many times as needed. if the ground is dry we mow into swaths and first tedding will be at about 2. everything else will be the same. all times are relevant as mother nature tells what we are going to do. we bale at 12% moisture or under with no preservative on small squares and run preservative on rounds and big squares. when people say go west i don't understand we never wet hay set that long even in the 60s. i want to see it someday. i just don't understand leaving hay out so long and then having to put moisture back in to it, why not just bale it sooner. i know there has to be a reason but it is lost on me. as people have said and i agree, what works where you are is completely wrong somewhere else.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

hay rake its interesting you can get dew off by 7 am, but we are right on either side of the time change line so your 7-9 is my 8-10 am.

Were we live is in a narrow corridor that runs north east almost inline with Maine's coast that get more rain than average through the summer. An hour drive northwest or southeast they can have no rain for long spells while we get hit everyday. Those areas have better luck growing grains without fungus problems than us. On the flip side, northwest of us get little tornados every year (extends into Maine too, Arostock county I think they call it.) while we've never had one here to my knowledge.

Have never needed to consider irrigation either thank goodness.

In the winter the same band is where it transitions from rain along the coastal areas to freezing cold arctic air. 2 days ago it was -20 F while yesterday it was +60 F and its going back to -5 F tomorrow.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

With the weather we have had here this winter I wonder what the summer is going to like??


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Let's all do what the weather forecasters do, blame it on......El Nino. That's what they do whenever they have no explanation for it.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Trillium Farm said:


> Let's all do what the weather forecasters do, blame it on......El Nino. That's what they do whenever they have no explanation for it.


Not true. They also blame 'LA Nina!


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## jeff outwest (Sep 13, 2009)

I have been haying my valley at 4000 ft elevation basically since I was born. What works best here is; narrow tall boxed shaped windrows. Spreading it out wide will bleach it like your favorite blonde. We live on the eastern side of the Sierra Mountains and every afternoon we get a nice breeze to aid in drying. But I can tell this; baling conditions vary every five miles here, depending if the lake has water in it or not.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> Not true. They also blame 'LA Nina!


You're right, I forgot the sister !!


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

I am always interested in how different things are because of climate.We have a winter wet season along the west coast and a dry summer.With the dry weather I have always been don't get in a hurry and make good hay rather than dusty,if any doubt leave it dry some more.Most hay is cut and windrowed with a swather so not as much bleaching as the old days of cut and rake.I was taught by old horsemen put energy not protein in grain hay.May have to do with are running out of moisture but stems have more sugar as the grain is in the dough than milk.So give up color for sugar,can make horses eat like it was candy. Also grain weights more than straw so tonnage goes up a little to.With the advent of the instant hay moisture meters guy would try to hurry the process and had stem moisture in it they where not getting a good reading on that made musty or dusty hay still alright for cows but not horses.Even with alfalfa they will be 7 to 10 days,and they always want the water back on it as fast as possible.

My beef cows always seem to clean it up good as well. If I have any that I don't need for cows sure want to sell it as horse hay for the better price.

Just different example of how things are not the same.To grow a summer crop like sweet corn.If I till the ground well and get a layer of my heavy black clay very fine on top I can grow sweet corn without one drop of rain falling on it. It can all be for not if we get the wrong weather at pollination time,and not much yield by real corn growing standards.But if I was to us common no till the ground splits and cracks very deep.You learn to be very careful with tools as it is easy to loose them in 2 to 3 inch cracks and never find them.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Not to depend entirely on electronics to decide if the hay is ready is always a smart move! What is also a smart move is to have the equipment that will allow you to get there the fastest.

That's why even if one has a discbine one should also have a rake and tedder. The only tool I'm not sure of (though I can see how & when one could be used) is the windrow turner, they cost a bundle!


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