# Baler Size for a Workmaster 50



## PDeLeon (May 15, 2019)

I'm new to this. My wife and I have 3 different lot sizes in Texas. They're 3-1/2 Acre, 12 Acre & 20 Acre lots. Right now, we ONLY have a New Holland Workmaster 50 with 1 Hydraulic Remote Pair. What's a good size Round Baler that our tractor can handle?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Are you on pretty level ground?

The reason for asking is your tractor is 4,000 - 5,000#, a NH 450 Utility baler about 3,300#, toss in a 800-1,000# bale and you got more weight pushing you around, than the tractor might weigh. Might not be fun setting in that tractor seat. Now, imagine a NH 450 standard baler weighing in at just shy of 6,000# (plus bale, oh my, the pucker power that brings to mind), on your tractor. 

I have a 5' x 5' baler that weighs in at around 6,000# (plus bale weight of 1,250+), on the rear of a MFD tractor that weighs in at just shy of 12,000# and it gets push around sometimes (even in 4WD). In a real tight pinch I could put my 70hp, 7,500# tractor in front, but I'd probably need to change my underwear quicker.

Larry


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## cjsr8595 (Jul 7, 2014)

A 4x5, something like a Vermeer Rebel series would work for you. Most manufactures provide HP ratings for their implements. Stay away from soft core, they tend to take more HP than a solid core. There are a few older bales out there that will work but the Rebel 5400, 5410, or 5420 would match pretty well. LIke the previous poster said, watch it if the balers is full and your on a hill.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Make sure you have Ag tires, not turf tires. Turf tires will take you for a ride faster than you can imagine on any kind of hill.

Ralph


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

You don't have to make a full 60" bale in a 450 Utility. You can make any size 4x you want that is less than 60 inches.


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## Frantz (Feb 18, 2018)

For that size you might want to consider getting someone to do the custom bailing for you.

Pros:
Don't need to buy or service a baler

Can get bales sized for market demand rather than equipment ability
Get to work with other people

Cons:
You generally do have to pay em
You'll have to work around their schedule
You get to work with other people

I pay my father in law so that helps with some of the pain, but also means I don't get to complain too much. I pay him $8 a bale, which is a little less than the market avg, but I also help around his operation, so we both end up ahead, or at least happy with the setup.

But find out what it would cost and do the math. Even if you'd like to grow your operation in the future, at less than 40 acres, it's harder to justify the cost, maintenance, and storage.


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## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

If your ground is flat, I would get a 4x5 baler. On most balers you will be able to make a 4×4 up to a 4x5. Dry hay you should be okay.
If you have hills you don't have enough weight for 4x5, get a 4x4.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

PDeLeon said:


> I'm new to this. My wife and I have 3 different lot sizes in Texas. They're 3-1/2 Acre, 12 Acre & 20 Acre lots. Right now, we ONLY have a New Holland Workmaster 50 with 1 Hydraulic Remote Pair. What's a good size Round Baler that our tractor can handle?


Is your first name Ponce?

Anyway, I would tend to agree with Frantz--contract it out.

Figure it this way: You have about 35 acres and no equipment. A 50 HP Workmaster is about the smallest I would run in perfect conditions. You'd probably be safe with something in the 80-90HP range. Then you need a mower ($5-15,000), a rake ($3-4,000) and a baler ($10-20,000).

Total is somewhere between $20,000 and $35,000 with a lot depending on how good and lucky you are buying used equipment. Using a 5 year depreciation, your equipment costs will be somewhere around $3,000 and $7,000 per year. This does not include fuel, maintenance, insurance and all those other pesky incidentals ($2,000/year???) that turn a profit into a loss.

Flip it over: Figure $20/acre to mow ($700), $5 to rake ($200) and $15/bale to bale 70 bales ($1100) = $2,000. IMO, the math doesn't work for you.

My estimates are taken from https://agecon.unl.edu/custom-rates#hayingwhich may not be applicable for your area.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Welcome to HT

I agree a rd baler that makes 4x5 solid core such as a JD 457 should be fine.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> Is your first name Ponce?
> 
> Anyway, I would tend to agree with Frantz--contract it out.
> 
> ...


Like Ralph is pointing out, the finances will rarely pencil out with small acreage farming, but I tip my hat to the those who jump head first into it anyway. 15 years ago, that's what I did. I was in my twenties, the land was available, the machinery was ready for the scrap pile, I had all the ambition in the world, and I never even considered sitting down to do the math before I dove into it. Not once have I regretted my decision, and I hope I die an old man in the seat of my tractor.

PDeLion. If you're wanting to farm mostly for financial reasons, then don't waist your time and hire it out. If you're wanting to farm because you can't imagine doing anything else, then find the best fitted baler you can afford and go for it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I agree cutting/baling might not pencil out until one pencils in having the ability to cut/bale hay when it needs baled


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Don't think this is what the OP wanted to hear! Reality is hard to face!


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> Is your first name Ponce?
> 
> Anyway, I would tend to agree with Frantz--contract it out.
> 
> ...


 At $2,000/cut that's still $6,000/yr, and then you're at the mercy of a custom baler's schedule. If you enjoy doing the work yourself and can cut on your own schedule, there's a premium there that evens the score somewhat. Not to mention you do have the equipment to sell should you decide to throw in the towel.

Speaking for myself, the best thing I ever did was become completely self-reliant with my own equipment and do everything myself. I was beside myself in frustration watching perfect mowing days go by while my first cut turned to complete stem. The result was first cut got baled so late I could only get two cuts in a year, and first cut was junk so I had it round baled. On my own, I get three cuts a year, I can square bale it all and I make about 3x as much in hay sales. It also allowed me to pick up acreage because fields that were available to me were too far for him to go, but not for me since I lived closer.

I've owned some of my equipment for 6 years now, but every year my expenses continue to decrease while my production increases. I lost money the first years, last year I broke even, and this year I'll probably actually turn a profit.

That being said, I could probably lose 5 grand a year and still wouldn't blink an eye simply because of the sheer enjoyment I get from haying. I'm pretty crazy for it.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hayjosh said:


> That being said, I could probably lose 5 grand a year and still wouldn't blink an eye simply because of the sheer enjoyment I get from haying. I'm pretty crazy for it.


Very good point. And, at your numbers, it's cheaper than golf.

Ralph


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> Very good point. And, at your numbers, it's cheaper than golf.
> 
> Ralph


Yeah there's a perspective that sometimes gets lost in a forum where you have a mix of commercial producers and wanna-be's/hobbyists. Things change depending if your livelihood depends on it or not.


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## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

John Deere recommends 45hp for their 449 4X4 baler and Vermeer 45hp for the Rebel 5420.That is what New Holland claims is the PTO hp for the Workmaster.

You can,however,pull a 4X5 baler if you rake smaller windrows,slow down,or stop your bale at the 4 foot height instead of 5.

I have,in a jam,pulled a 5X6 belt baler with a 67 hp Ford 5000.It worked with a half width windrow filling from side to side and in a lower gear.I wouldn't want to make all my hay this way but can do it on my relatively flat fields and 35 plus years of round baling experience.

The math doesn't work for you financially but neither does playing golf,fishing,hunting or going to sporting events.It comes down to what you want to do and can afford.And that is your decision.


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## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

In the used market,there' are the Case IH 8430 and Hesston 540,the New Holland 4X4 size and the New Holland and 84? chain style balers.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Frantz said:


> For that size you might want to consider getting someone to do the custom bailing for you.
> 
> Pros:
> Don't need to buy or service a baler
> ...


You can find people in you area to cut/rake/tedder & roll hay for around $10/roll? If so that is shocking. The OP may have trouble finding someone to come to fields as small as 3 and 12 acres, unless they are just down the road.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

I feel everyone agrees with the general theme; on mostly flat ground and making some exceptions like small bale size and windrow size it can be done. Should it be done on a regular basis? For your own safety and the lifecycle of your tractor and equipment, NO. It is very misleading when equipment manufacturers list horsepower ratings based on the absolute perfect conditions.

Another thought, if your fields are not relatively smooth that tractor is going to beat the crap out of you.

How are you getting the rest of the baling process completed (cut/tedder/rake)? You have a good little tractor for teddering/raking and moving/feeding hay (assuming it has a loader and in ideal conditions) but it is not a round baler tractor.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

dvcochran said:


> You can find people in you area to cut/rake/tedder & roll hay for around $10/roll? If so that is shocking. The OP may have trouble finding someone to come to fields as small as 3 and 12 acres, unless they are just down the road.


I think in my area of Texas that one would be hard pressed to find someone that will cut/rake/ted/bale for $15-$18 much less $10 . $20 per bale for those same services is the the cheapest I've heard with $25 per bale being more common. I charge $15 for rake/bale only. I refuse to bale behind someone else's raking because a good raking job is easy to bale & bad raking job is terrible to bale & bales look better behind a good raking job.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

dvcochran said:


> You can find people in you area to cut/rake/tedder & roll hay for around $10/roll? If so that is shocking. The OP may have trouble finding someone to come to fields as small as 3 and 12 acres, unless they are just down the road.


Pretty sure the implication there was $8 to bale instead of perform the complete process...


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## kyfarmboy (Feb 11, 2014)

It all depends on how fancy you need to be. Good used equipment can be had cheap. Most people dont want it. And if your doing 500 acres a year I can understand that but for the acreage you are talking. You can run junk like I do. I am pretty mechanically inclined. My equipment is old and not super fast but I work a full time job and put up alot more hay than you are talking. With minimal down time. I go through my equipment every winter and do my best to catch issues before they become an issue. So go with equipment that pencils out and roll with it.


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## Frantz (Feb 18, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> You can find people in you area to cut/rake/tedder & roll hay for around $10/roll? If so that is shocking. The OP may have trouble finding someone to come to fields as small as 3 and 12 acres, unless they are just down the road.


No that's just for baling. I cut and rake and ted if necessary. You can get away with much less expensive equipment for those jobs. I only meant trying to find a baler for his tractor may not make as much sense as finding someone with the right size for the market. I certainly appreciate the idea of doing it all yourself and even the idea that it might not have to make sense. But when I was first starting out I didn't even think about the idea that I could pay out parts of the job. I didn't grow up around ag so really had very little idea to how things do and can work... as well as what doesn't. Still learning for sure!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Frantz said:


> No that's just for baling.


One more piece to the puzzle, could be size of bale. Payng $8 for a 4x4 wouldn't equate as be cheaper than paying $15 for a 5x6 (at least in my thinking).

Larry


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## Frantz (Feb 18, 2018)

r82230 said:


> One more piece to the puzzle, could be size of bale. Payng $8 for a 4x4 wouldn't equate as be cheaper than paying $15 for a 5x6 (at least in my thinking).
> 
> Larry


You're 100% right! For what it's worth, it's a 4x5 bale, and again, it's paying my father in law, so there is a bit of a family deal involved. The number wasn't really meant to base calculations on but to present the overall idea for analysis can consideration.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I only bale for myself, about 30 acres. I started with a 50 HP JD tractor, a JD 9 foot sickle bar mower, a NH 256 rake and a small square baler. As I do more, and find "bargains" I now have a JD 75 HP tractor, JD 458 baler and a 8 foot disc mower. The round baler needed repaired, the disc mower needed a bearing in one disc, but I was not in a hurry for the equipment and did the repairs myself, and now I am good to go. I just enjoy baling, and FWIW, it cost between $20.00 and $25.00 to get hay baled in my area. But another thought I did not see mentioned is having someone bale it on shares. Just don't get in a rush and buy new or the first thing that comes along. If it is right it will just happen. Good luck!


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

$8.00 for a 4x4 is $8.00 for 50.2 cubic feet

$15.00 for a 5x6 is $15.00 for 141.3 cubic feet, definitely a better deal!

Just saying!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> $8.00 for a 4x4 is $8.00 for 50.2 cubic feet
> $15.00 for a 5x6 is $15.00 for 141.3 cubic feet, definitely a better deal!
> Just saying!


Now, to make you think about re-calculating your numbers, the newer NH (and JDs I believe) really don't have a 4' wide bale but a 46.5" wide chamber and the 5' balers have a 61.5" wide chamber, so maybe your numbers could be a little off.   :lol: Had to do it, couldn't help myself. :lol:  :lol: But, even with your numbers, it shows the importance of the size (plus the compression/weight of the hay) that could be pretty important. 

The reason I happen to know these numbers is I had someone try to tell me that one of my 5x5 bale couldn't possibly be almost the same volume (cubic feet) as two 4x4 bales. Actually, one 5x5 is about 5 cubic feet more IIFC.

Larry


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Okay Larry, I re-calculated using your chamber width figures! 

4x4 = 48.7 cu ft

5x5 = 100.6 cu ft   :lol:

I can not assume responsibility for variances in bale diameter or density!  

Use these figures at your own risk/discretion! :lol:

Dave


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

A 4x4 round bale is equal to 9.5 small squares
A 5x5 round bale is equal to 19 small squares
Disclaimer: This is based on volume only of a 14x18x36 small square


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I have re-baled many rounds into small squares and never once have I come up with the theoretical figures for a 5x6 round bale . I always end up at least 2 bales short. But it comes close if it is based on weight!


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## Frantz (Feb 18, 2018)

If you're going to be snarky you should at least read the size correct  4x5... not 4x4. It's 5' diameter.... so 78 ft^3. Even if it were cheaper to do the bigger bales I wouldn't be able to sell the hay to my mulch guy as he doesn't want it more than 4' so he can fit two side by side on his truck easier.... And that goes back to my original point that making hay to suit your market is more important that how big you can do it.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

I don't know it anyone else noticed but the OP never jumped back in to the conversation. Anyone know it he made any decisions?


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

dvcochran said:


> I don't know it anyone else noticed but the OP never jumped back in to the conversation. Anyone know it he made any decisions?


The OP didn't get the answers he wanted and once he saw this he bailed out, without even a thank you to those who replied.


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

What a weenie


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## Woody426 (Jun 3, 2019)

Hesston 530 probably would work


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