# John Deere



## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

I have ofen wondered how John Deere ever sold a tracor before 1960.As particular as we farmers are,I wonder how older guys ever warmed up to he sound the two cylinders made when an IH would purr so softly and FordFerguson had the three pt.?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I often wondered if some people think IHC tractors purred so softly why the original company no longer exists????????? 

One reason farmers bought JD's is JD engines had fewer moving parts than other brand engines and clutches could be repaired in the field if so required.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Story I heard was it was the transition from hit n miss engines time peroid. McCormick ran smooth but so did the Buicks. Marketing, impressions, and resistence to change played a big factor. 
Imagine if you had to run urea and dpf on a new tractor. Would you hold off on a new purchase until the technology had neen proven?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I gotta go find a stick so we can beat this dead horse some more....


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I dunno I still think the sound of a gas 2 cylinder going downhill is pretty cool.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> One reason farmers bought JD's is JD engines had fewer moving parts than other brand engines and clutches could be repaired in the field if so required.


The old poppers were very simple and easy to repair. It sure is a stark contrast from designing a tractor with a field repairable clutch to "owning" a tractor but not the software on which its operation is dependent.

When I was a tad younger (before I could legally drive) a buddy and we came up with a '37 A and put an engine together with leftover parts (he was a JD nut and had a few other JD A tractors); it had 2 different pistons (different material-therefore different weight). It ran and plowed fine, but it shook like a dog trying to pass a peach pit. The newer tractors (of any manufacturer) probably could not have endured the two of us as we could tear up a rock pile with a feather duster.

...and that is why I'm a Farmall guy and "badmouth" JDs. He and I both liked antique tractors before it was cool. If I found a JD, I would let him buy it; if he found a Farmall, he let me buy it. We were teenaged kids and acted as such- you don't give another an outright compliment; you give them crap to their face and brag about it behind their back.

Guys (at least the ones with which I personally associate) DO NOT give each other compliments; instead you question his manhood, choice of beer, tractor choices etc while working shoulder to shoulder with him and drinking his "goat pee" beer when the job is done.

If I didn't like someone, I wouldn't say a word about their tractor; everyone else gets a ration of crap. 

73, Mark


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

jr in va said:


> I have ofen wondered how John Deere ever sold a tracor before 1960.As particular as we farmers are,I wonder how older guys ever warmed up to he sound the two cylinders made when an IH would purr so softly and FordFerguson had the three pt.?


Hindsight is great. I imagine when the Ferguson system came out it was met with quite a bit of resistance.

Also, I don't think a fancy 3 point hitch pulled horse drawn equipment any better.

Another Ford advancement, the SOS, didn't save them either. They let Deere perfect it and we have the power shift. Whether good or lucky, Deere stood on its own. And is still here today.

IH, Case, Ford, Oliver, MM,All is Chalmers, Massey, and others can't say that.

They must have done something right!


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> Hindsight is great. I imagine when the Ferguson system came out it was met with quite a bit of resistance.
> 
> Also, I don't think a fancy 3 point hitch pulled horse drawn equipment any better.
> 
> ...


Deere had (has) better management and marketing than the others, not necessarily better or more technologically advanced equipment.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Orchard6 said:


> Deere had (has) better management and marketing than the others, not necessarily better or more technologically advanced equipment.


They have done very well at marketing.Resale has always been used in their marketing.But IMO you pay for resale up front.

In 1996 I bought a new MF tractor for 100K.

JD wanted 125K for a similar tractor.

Today my tractor is worth about 35K The JD about 60K.Still 25K difference.

So if I would of bought the JD I would of pd interest on 25,000 for the last 21 yrs.Or it could have been used eleswhere,anyway you cut it they would of had use of the 25K instead of me.

Right or wrong this is the way I think.


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> They have done very well at marketing.Resale has always been used in their marketing.But IMO you pay for resale up front.
> 
> In 1996 I bought a new MF tractor for 100K.
> JD wanted 125K for a similar tractor.
> ...


I agree! Buying for resale value alone is a poor way to invest in a tractor. We have been running Deere for the last 25-30 years or so but I think our next one maybe orange. Deere has decided to axe the 5000 EN series which basically was the dealers bread and butter in our area. They were considered by many as the top of the line narrow orchard tractor. The replacement GN series are a Carraro built tractor with a FPT engine that even the dealer said looks like a poor excuse for an orchard tractor. Time will tell but I think this is a mistake on Deeres part.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

stack em up said:


> I gotta go find a stick so we can beat this dead horse some more....


We are not beating a dead horse. We are using a stick to strike it repeatedly in a effort to confirm that it is, in fact, deceased.

My Grandfather told me that some people wouldn't touch a vee style engine, anybody could see that the bottom of the cylinder would wear quickly. Marketing, simplicity, the belief that if you could poor it in the fuel tank it would burn it, brand recognition, the new "doodads" weren't needed, horses didn't have them, these all played a factor in my uneducated, unsolicited, unknowledgeable opinion.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> So if I would of bought the JD I would of pd interest on 25,000 for the last 21 yrs.Or it could have been used eleswhere,anyway you cut it they would of had use of the 25K instead of me.


So this is what 25K is over 21 yrs @5%.Many of those yrs I was paying 8% so it would be more yet.

1

$1,250.00

$1,250.00

$26,250.00

2

$1,312.50

$2,562.50

$27,562.50

3

$1,378.13

$3,940.63

$28,940.63

4

$1,447.03

$5,387.66

$30,387.66

5

$1,519.38

$6,907.04

$31,907.04

6

$1,595.35

$8,502.39

$33,502.39

7

$1,675.12

$10,177.51

$35,177.51

8

$1,758.88

$11,936.39

$36,936.39

9

$1,846.82

$13,783.21

$38,783.21

10

$1,939.16

$15,722.37

$40,722.37

11

$2,036.12

$17,758.48

$42,758.48

12

$2,137.92

$19,896.41

$44,896.41

13

$2,244.82

$22,141.23

$47,141.23

14

$2,357.06

$24,498.29

$49,498.29

15

$2,474.91

$26,973.20

$51,973.20

16

$2,598.66

$29,571.86

$54,571.86

17

$2,728.59

$32,300.46

$57,300.46

18

$2,865.02

$35,165.48

$60,165.48

19

$3,008.27

$38,173.75

$63,173.75

20

$3,158.69

$41,332.44

$66,332.44

21

$3,316.62

$44,649.06

$69,649.06

Standard Savings

Base amount: $25,000.00
Interest Rate: 5%
Effective Annual Rate: 5%
Calculation period: 21 years


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Well shit that didn't copy & paste very well, but the 25K would of compounded to $69,649 over 21 yrs.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IMO (which aint worth much), Deere has overdone it on the Chinese manufacturing. My 2016 CX-15 is assembled in Mexico with the majority of the parts made in China. I mean theres dozens of castings, the gearboxes, the tires all made in China-and its stamped on all those parts very clearly.

Now this is Deere's toughest brush cutter-and I paid for their best.

I ran a stump pan over a mound of dirt yesterday and now the damn thing shakes the mower and the whole tractor. WTF???

I dont know if it was made in USA if it'd be any better. I really like the mower, but the off shore parts are really excessive and it turns me off. Hell I was "Sunday shopping" at a Deere dealer today and looked under a Deere tractor and the whole front axle was chinese made!

I used to feel guilty buying a Japanese built Kubota, but if Deeres going to paint Chinese parts green in Mexico and try to make me feel guilty for buying orange, then screw 'em.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> They have done very well at marketing.Resale has always been used in their marketing.But IMO you pay for resale up front.
> 
> In 1996 I bought a new MF tractor for 100K.
> JD wanted 125K for a similar tractor.
> ...


To be fair, repairs and down time on either tractor is subject to skew any results you may see in the final analysis.......especially over that time frame


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD-for my money in the class I looked at, that is why I went orange. Indian, Korean,Chinese, and Japanese were the choices. Maybe my next one will be old enough to have American choices?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Whack, whack, whack, whack,whack........


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

somedevildawg said:


> To be fair, repairs and down time on either tractor is subject to skew any results you may see in the final analysis.......especially over that time frame


Well I've spent less then $2000 on it in 21 yrs,besides batteries and tires.Computor was replaced,AC compressor,and 1 sensor.Not going to get much better then that.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I'd still like to know how Deere hasn't figure out how to put an interior in a tractor that doesn't fall apart.......


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

John Deere is a marketing company in the ag sector...

When I worked at CNH one summer the guys there couldn't understand why Deere could sell anything with "John Deere" on it and CNH couldn't.

It was all in the marketing and the fact that Deere has been around forever while CNH/NH/Sperry/Rand/Ford NH/Fiat keeps changing who it is..


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> JD-for my money in the class I looked at, that is why I went orange. Indian, Korean,Chinese, and Japanese were the choices. Maybe my next one will be old enough to have American choices?


X2. Kubby dont make 15' bush hogs, though.

Even the Deere mechanic that came out to deliver & set up the CX-15 told me the Deere tractors were not all they were supposed to be. Complicated beyond belief and loaded with Chinese parts. .

Says he farms hay at their own family farms and told me they run, wait for it.....Kubota!

Says he has a M-105 that his words, "was geared better than any Deere" and thought it was perfect round bale tractor.

And this is coming from a guy who would love to own Deere!! ME!!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> JD-for my money in the class I looked at, that is why I went orange. Indian, Korean,Chinese, and Japanese were the choices. Maybe my next one will be old enough to have American choices?


I know mine will....probably. Or English (McCormick)

Theres just something about Deere. its the paint color and the legend


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> Standard Savings
> 
> Base amount: $25,000.00
> Interest Rate: 5%
> ...


May I ask where you place your $$$$$$ to get 5% interest?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> May I ask where you place your $$$$$$ to get 5% interest?


i would of been paying 5-8% interest most of those yrs.

Land would of payed more then 5%

Stock market probably would of also


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> i would of been paying 5-8% interest most of those yrs.
> 
> Land would of payed more then 5%
> 
> Stock market probably would of also


I was unaware an Implement co would finance a tractor or implement for 21 yrs similar to you example. You also failed to account for depreciation in your example.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> I was unaware an Implement co would finance a tractor or implement for 21 yrs similar to you example. You also failed to account for depreciation in your example.


The example is what else the 25K could have been used for.Operateing notes,or land payments etc.

Actual depritiation between the 2 tractors was accounted for as they is still 25K differnce between them.Both depritiated similar,about 65K in value.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

...and don't forget about the depreciation of the dollar from 1996 to 2016. The calculator says that 25k in 1996 is worth 37,943.28 in 2016. Since the equipment did not gain differential value, but rather retained a stagnant diferential, there is an additional $12,943.28 loss which must be calculated for self-honesty.

73, Mark


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

John Deere, with parts from China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, what is the common thread all those countries? They have a cheap labor force, what an American can make in one hour in a U.S.A plant pays his counterpart in the aforementioned countries for an entire day. If you research enough I bet those workers don't have near the benefit package that the average plant worker here in the states has. What it boils down to is good ole fashion greed the bottom line, the cheaper they can make them, while finding someone to buy them on their past reputation for quality, or the fact they have more dealerships then the competition which give the appearance of better service (we all know that service is not equal or good at all dealerships some are better then others regardless of color lol) As long we the American consumer continue to buy the same brand because that's what dad did and that's what granddad did then we enable those companies to sell us inferior products at premium prices, An educated and informed buyer doesn't buy because of color, he buys where he gets the most bang for his buck irregardless of color. Sorry for the rant just had to vent a bit thank you...


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

I had an economics course where the instructor preached the whole semester on making decisions based on money alone. Went off on tangents as to why and what ti include in the buying decision, money wise only while giving the impression if emotional factors were used it wasn't a good decision. The last day he stated you still what you want. Without a bottomless checkbook I'm looking to get the biggest bang for my buck for what I need now with the cash I have now. All this ripping on different brands seems....
Would I like a new widget... you bet. Is it the best thing for me now...not likely. 
The calculations posted are justifiable to me. For me to buy on resale value ALONE, well, I think there are better ways to invest the money I had to work for. 
Please remember most comments are opinions and at the end of the day its the individual's choice, just like that econ professor stated.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

How many commenting have ever driven a Popping Johnny to do a days work??? I don't know that I can say it is pheasant to listen to all day but that is why you ware ear protection.

I about fell off my chair comparing the JD A I used to a Ford N series.I had to look at Tractor Data and on paper they are very comparable. Spent more time on the JD and would of guessed it would do a lot more work than a Ford.

Pulled a hay baler from 77 to 02 with the JD A. It would handle the IH 56 anywhere,later with a 3 wire NH 290 you never wanted to go down to much hill as the baler was heaver than the tractor. Both engine driven balers so tractor just had get the weight up a hill not drive the baling as well.The braking was also so much better with the JD.

Now about the modern JD and price, as well as origin of parts have to agree with most here,there are other ways to go. But the old ones would keep up with all the rest,you may not like the sound but put out a lot of work.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Thorim said:


> John Deere, with parts from China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, what is the common thread all those countries? They have a cheap labor force, what an American can make in one hour in a U.S.A plant pays his counterpart in the aforementioned countries for an entire day. If you research enough I bet those workers don't have near the benefit package that the average plant worker here in the states has. What it boils down to is good ole fashion greed the bottom line, the cheaper they can make them, while finding someone to buy them on their past reputation for quality, or the fact they have more dealerships then the competition which give the appearance of better service (we all know that service is not equal or good at all dealerships some are better then others regardless of color lol) As long we the American consumer continue to buy the same brand because that's what dad did and that's what granddad did then we enable those companies to sell us inferior products at premium prices, An educated and informed buyer doesn't buy because of color, he buys where he gets the most bang for his buck irregardless of color. Sorry for the rant just had to vent a bit thank you...


Japan has as high or higher labor rates and material costs than the US or US workers. They are going through the same thing the US is. Many Japanese companies are off shoring lots of assemblies and labor to vietnam, and other sources of cheap labor. 
Japanese manufacturing workers are extremely well paid. 
I agree with the rest of your points. 
If JD wants to build stuff off shore, it better be just as high quality.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ok, can't help myself, I am a JD tractor guy but don't own any other JD paint. So, not totally color blind. Also can admit that the JD 2010 was the poorest excuse for a tractor that ever was mainstream. That said, I used to watch what was used in the old days (the 60s for you wet behind the ears guys) in timber operations. Without exception, they were JD Bs As and Farmall Ms and Hs, nothing else.That means they were tough tractors. AC Wd-45s and 45Ds were top notch also. 8Ns, what a joke, would not pull a log to save it's butt. I would not have a bad JD over another brand, I would just do my research and get a good JD. Like a 4020, 2640, a 2755, 6400, or the current M series. Global trade is a reality, deal with it. There is no Cletis making a tractor from scratch in Wobegone. Just one guys opinion. rick


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Thorim said:


> John Deere, with parts from China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, what is the common thread all those countries? They have a cheap labor force, what an American can make in one hour in a U.S.A plant pays his counterpart in the aforementioned countries for an entire day. If you research enough I bet those workers don't have near the benefit package that the average plant worker here in the states has. What it boils down to is good ole fashion greed the bottom line, the cheaper they can make them, while finding someone to buy them on their past reputation for quality, or the fact they have more dealerships then the competition which give the appearance of better service (we all know that service is not equal or good at all dealerships some are better then others regardless of color lol) As long we the American consumer continue to buy the same brand because that's what dad did and that's what granddad did then we enable those companies to sell us inferior products at premium prices, An educated and informed buyer doesn't buy because of color, he buys where he gets the most bang for his buck irregardless of color. Sorry for the rant just had to vent a bit thank you...


While I'll agree with most of your rant thorim, I have to say that if said company did not produce items in those countries with the aforementioned attributes/advantages, they wouldn't be selling tractors long.....shareholders would lose and employees would lose... in essence, a lose/lose


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ray 54 said:


> I about fell off my chair comparing the JD A I used to a Ford N series.I had to look at Tractor Data and on paper they are very comparable. Spent more time on the JD and would of guessed it would do a lot more work than a Ford.


In my youth I spent many hrs driving a JD 2 cylinder tractor cultivating & plowing. Back in the 70's when I was employed at a JD dealership some technicians & I hooked via a chain my JD BO & Ford 2000 together. My BO easily drug that 2000 around with the Ford tractor tires spinning. I'll guarantee a JD A will drag a Ford 8N probably two 8N's at the same time.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Tx Jim, in my youth we did something similar, via chain between a Farmall H (my dad bought new in the 40's) and my dad's new Ford 3000, the Ford did the same as your Ford 2000, wheels turning the wrong way for the direction it was traveling. Convinced us to keep the H on the JD 24T baler on the hiller ground (live power, was great on the Ford however for the level ground).

Swmnhay, maybe an easier example for your $25K, is if you would have put it were Warren Buffet did (Berkshire Hathaway), his last twenty years average is north of 15% return (close to 20%, was my last read). I do know you could have bought a share for around $7,500 twenty-five years ago that is worth around $220,000 today. Almost as good as the land purchased from the Indians (supposedly for $1), now known as Manhattan, NY.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

If it were up to me, John Deere would still have a Waterloo style 2 cylinder in their line up. They are an incredibly easy tractor to operate and are built extra heavy. For lighter farm work I still use my 620 and 720 diesel often.

Of course I'd like to buy a new 4020 diesel powershift as well!


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## rockyridgefarm (Feb 17, 2015)

I use a 1944 John Deere hand start B every week to pull a 3 ton auger wagon from my feedroom to my bulk bins. I was using a 1955 60, but have discovered my little 18 hp Baby can do the job just as well. I pull a new holland 258 and 260 rake with a gooseneck hitch with the 60, as well as many other implements throughout the year.

I can definitely see why Deere was selling tractors before 1960....


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