# JCB 3185 tractor trade??



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I dont want to bore with a lot of details, but I have a chance to buy a JCB 3185 with VERY low hours. Basically used as a big boys toy. It looks great, has had all fluids changed and has excellent tires. It is loaded to the gills with extras including front 3pt and 2 front PTO stubs and air brakes. I spoke to former owner. hes an old guy that seemed very honest. He traded it in on a new excavator. Said it was an excellent tractor.
I would trade my smaller Kubota M9540 in on it. Dealer and I are a little apart on price, but nothing that cant be overcome.
I would use the JCB for pulling my round baler and compost wagon and pushing a Krone front mount discbine with impeller conditionng. I would trade my NH 7320 in on the Krone discbine. Dealer at $27K on discbine and 16K on my 3yr old NH trade-in.

Positive reasons to do this are many, but the biggest for me:
1.I see my operation expanding and the driving distances between fields increasing, it feels like the right time to jump into a bigger/faster more efficient & capable tractor. I think the JCB will get from point A to point B much faster with its higher road speed and air brakes.
2. I have always wanted a SP discbine, and with an 11'-6" Krone front mower, I will have not only a SP discbine, but a tractor to pull baler and compost wagon to go with it. My neck is really suffering from old injuries and turning around constantly is becoming painful.
3. The flotation tires for my flood plain fields when I'm doing bush hogging on big fields will decrease compaction. I am aquiring "conservancy land" and thats a hot button issue for them.
4. Another reason is the inevitability of moving up to a big square baler. At 180 PTO HP, it will handle it. Has 5.9L Cummins under hood.

Negatives:
1. Have heard JCB is unreliable. May be more based on lore than fact, but it is kind of undeniable that theres not many of them out there. There is a local JCB dealer that offers parts & service.
2. My M9540 has a loader. The JCB doesnt. My other tractor has a loader, but I'd be down from 2 loaders to 1 loader. Will this inconvenience me greatly???? I cant really tell. I could put a dual bale spear on the JCB's front 3 point and bring bales in from the field 2 at a time, but it wont load trucks.
3, 4, 5 , 6 I left open for you all to give opinions.

I know these tractors have been grilled pretty hard, but it seems like a perfect fit for my area, which I hate to say, resembles Europe more that where most of you are.
OK, flame suit zipped, Redwing steel toe shoes with metatarsal protectors laced, Stihl hard hat, safety glasses and chain saw gloves on.

Lemme have those opinions on this "deal"


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

It's going to be clumsy for a round baler. A front mount discbine won't remotely resemble a SP in any way other than cutting in the front.

But if your reasons to do it are strong for you, maybe those won't be a big deal.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not sure about the reliability, seems most of JCB's construction equipment is pretty good.

Some of the custom guys around here had JCB's for pulling silage trailers or applying slurry, noticed it looks like Fendt's are replacing them.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Just a couple thoughts:

JCBs steering might give a bit more natural of a feel to a front mower than conventional MFD.

Don't know why a JCB would be more clumsy on a baler than a conventional MFD of similar size?

As much as I like my Cummins 5.9s, at that hp rating in a tractor the power band may be quite peaky. It is in my 170 engine hp CIH MX170, also a 5.9. I might have an aneroid adjustment issue though.

I promise you would like the road speed. After acquiring a tractor that went 25 mph instead of 19, I realized how much time I waste roading a tractor.

Dealer support would make or break the deal for me, even though I do my own repairs.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> Don't know why a JCB would be more clumsy on a baler than a conventional MFD of similar size?.


Because it's much bigger than his current baler tractor and it's going to be a different view from the cab with the forward positioning of the operator's station. It's been a few years since I've ridden in one but I don't recall the visibility to ground being bad, but it's going to be different for sure. Might be harder to see the baler pickup.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Little more info:

Today didnt go too well in regards to tractor-went to see it today. Overall in good condition except:

1. Tires. Really disappointed. They are MICHELIN 520/30 radials with 75% tread, but they have noticeable weather checking near the rims. Pathetic! The also have "bulges" in them.

2. For the life of me, I couldnt shift it. Not because I cant shift, but because the transmission is so damn weird. It has a 6 speed "stick". On the stick knob is a 3 speed powershift. No problem there. The problem was on the column mounted reverser. There was a rotary 3 range twist shifter with H,M & L on it. It seemed to be air shifted. I could not figure out how to use it. Nor could the salesman or the service dept. lol

Tractor was really stout. Massive suspension, wheels, frame, fr & rr 3 pt hitches, etc. Cab was big enough for 3 people. Just about everything worked.

Really the big issues are the tires and learning how to decipher the transmission and the Bosch electronic controls. I was kind of intimidated by it. Looked difficult to repair....

Would like to find 175HP, 4WD, suspension, front 3t & front PTO under $55K
Tough find with low hours....


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks like it can handle a big square baler.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Actually the view out the back was great.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't know a thing about JCBs and have no experience with them. But I looked up on Tractorhouse and think I was looking at the exact one you are probably talking about. One thing I noticed was the layout of the cab. Just looked a little awkward as far as where the controls were located. For example, sure looks to me like the throttle level is well back on the side of the console and you would really have to turn or bend your arm back to use the throttle. And my personal preference is to have everything right at your fingertips on the side console and requiring little effort to reach. Looks like the main transmission shift lever is on the floor, and the hydraulic levers are down on the side too. If you are going to be spending hours in this thing, and I'm sure you will, might want to consider the ergonomics of the cab compared to a tractor with everything located a little more conveniently. But remember I'm just looking at pictures, you were actually up in it and it may be laid out better than it appears.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Trotwood2955 said:


> I don't know a thing about JCBs and have no experience with them. But I looked up on Tractorhouse and think I was looking at the exact one you are probably talking about. One thing I noticed was the layout of the cab. Just looked a little awkward as far as where the controls were located. For example, sure looks to me like the throttle level is well back on the side of the console and you would really have to turn or bend your arm back to use the throttle. And my personal preference is to have everything right at your fingertips on the side console and requiring little effort to reach. Looks like the main transmission shift lever is on the floor, and the hydraulic levers are down on the side too. If you are going to be spending hours in this thing, and I'm sure you will, might want to consider the ergonomics of the cab compared to a tractor with everything located a little more conveniently. But remember I'm just looking at pictures, you were actually up in it and it may be laid out better than it appears.


I can see where you might think that and yes, some of the controls are not quite as convenient as in my bigger Kubota. It almost has a "truck" layout-especially the windshield, seating, pedals and shifter. Throttle wasnt too bad. I mostly either set the throttle where I want or use the go pedal anyway.
The 3pt lever and the 3 spool levers were next to the seat down a little on the lower side. Cab is HUGE and really nice to work from. HVAC vents everywhere. Buddy seat was nicer than some tractor seats.
I think the road speed is 35-40.
Air brakes are great. Park brake is air, too.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

With those features and that kind of road speed you will need a class "A" CDL to take it on the highway.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Good thinking in one way if you're going to continue to expand your number two tractor is going to have to be a little bit bigger. As said earlier a front mounted mower on tractor is not going to have the advantages of self-propelled. On this you need to be sure you might not even like the front mount it might not even work out for you and you will have traded off a completely good pull type. Don't know a thing about JCB I can tell you all the BTO'S around here tried them no one has one anymore. Hopefully someone will chime in here that has run JCB. Would not spend a ton to get something with high road speeds because a couple of your fields are a far distance apart. The only time hi Road speed equipment pays off is like when you have a salage cart or manure tanker and you're running up and down the road all day long.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I would think the front mount mower would be good for me ergonomically. After running PT discbine for a few days, my neck is a mess for like a month and Im not getting any younger haha. On a seperate issue-I think I will like impeller conditioning better for what Im doing, too. This gives me a chance to switch to impellers and get quicker dry down.
Why wouldnt you think a front mower would be somewhat like a SP discbine? Sure its not as good (mower isnt right under the cab glass), but in some ways its better than a SP. It will have 4WD so better on hills, soft ground. Do you mean because mower is farther out front? Or some other reason?

Im not opposed to a different tractor so long as it has front 3pt and PTO and at least a front suspension. I saw a Deere 6430, but not big enough to pull future sq baler.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD, one huge advantage of a self propelled windrower is ztr design.

No experience with a front mount mower on a tractor, but I imagine it requires the use of reverse or creativity to now like an sp.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Why do you feel going to a big square baler wil be your next move? Much more expensive baler, needs bigger tractor, and it needs way more maintenance. I couldnt see having a big square unless you have A LOT of acres, there are no custom guys around, or you want to start custom work...


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Lots of jcb's run around here on manure tankers and silage trailers. We have a jcb telehandler. Quality seems good overall. With that said, I wouldn't make that trade. My main reason would be losing the second loader tractor. For years we only had one loader. It is so much more efficient with two. I think you would regret that. Secondly, I would worry that you won't like the front mower. It is not going to turn and corner like a regular self propelled. If I was you, I would stay the same equipment for a year or two till you get some debt paid down, then buy the third tractor and make the mower decision at that time. This way you still have two loader tractors and more flexibility.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I agree with OhioHay on losing the second loader. Are you hauling and stacking your bales in a central location for later sales? If so I would think two loaders is a must - one to load in field and one to unload at the barn or stack.

I also have never run a SP discbine but can see where the others are coming from. A regular SP has excellent visibility. This setup will have you further back and I would think make it harder to see rocks or obstacles. A pull type is good for that because you can watch for obstacles out to the side as you pass them and then lift the header as you come to them. If your fields are clean then no big deal on that though.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I've had a good bit of JCB construction equipment......all very good pieces and all just about broke the bank when breakdowns occurred. Very expensive parts.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> I've had a good bit of JCB construction equipment......all very good pieces and all just about broke the bank when breakdowns occurred. Very expensive parts.....


You're telling me the "harsh realities" that I need to hear. 
Got to tell you, I've never seen more value for the money, though. 
1700 hours, cab 4WD, 190HP 5.9L Cummins, air brakes, front and rear 3 pt hitches, 2 front PTO shafts, one rear. 32 speed auto shift, 40mph road speed (30 would be about all I could use) huge spacious cab. All for 50k. There's nothing that even comes close to comparison. I'd have to spend $25,000 more.

Seems like a fantastic deal and a perfect fit. Just can't decide if the cracked tire sidewalls and potential repair costs make it worth taking the chance.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

When I was looking for a tractor with a bigger cab I really liked the JCB until I found out about the turning radius. According to tractordata.com the JCB has a turning radius of 45ft compared to your Kubota that has a 14ft radius.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

A couple of things...the early Fastrac models had a lot of electrical gremlins and some tranny problems. The one you are lookign at should be new enough to miss those isuses. Parts are a killer to get and expensive. Knew a couple of guys that ran them, they carried a LOT of spare patrs on hand because a breakdown repair could be measure in weeks. This was a few years back, so maybe the tractor parts situation was improved, but be warned.

Turning radius suck in the one I have driven. Buddy of mine who had one ran a pottinger system with both front and rear mount mowers for about a 30' cut and it was still a pain to turn on endrows. If you are raking a bunch of windrows together it wouldn't be as bad.

Lousy in the field if you think it would be good for some tillage. Lot of wheel slip even in dry conditions, and duals are not an option. It is a tractor you could get by with on occasion, but not very ideal. Don't know if newer ones are any better.

European farmers are really using it as a replacement for a small semi. My buddy uses it for swathing, spraying, and pulling gravity wagons to the on-farm bins only, and has fields long ways apart. For a few specialized roles, it does well.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Blue Duck said:


> When I was looking for a tractor with a bigger cab I really liked the JCB until I found out about the turning radius. According to tractordata.com the JCB has a turning radius of 45ft compared to your Kubota that has a 14ft radius.


Thats terrible. When I drove it, it didnt seem nearly that big of a turning radius. maybe its smaller in 2WD.

Ive pretty much moved on. Now I need to find something that has a lot of the features of the JCB, but without the drawbacks.

So where do I find the a tractor with HP, Zuidberg front, cab, flotation tire and price that will compare?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Those JCB's are used a bunch on manure tankers here but not much else. Probably could find a 40 km/hr euro import with front 3 point / pto and loader and floatation tires in several different brands for the price point.

The cracked sidewalls with bulges, likely Michellins on it if I'm guessing right? They all bulge. The cracks can sometimes be ok a long time, or other times they will fail quickly. Michellin paid 77% on my cracked sidewalls that failed. Found out later there are boots you can install inside so the cracks don't pinch the tubes.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

Didn't one of the U.S. makers come out with a model that would go over 30 mph?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

In regards to your last post, you can have any 3 out of the 5 wants you listed.

If you want the benefits of a SP discbine i think you will have to just buy one. On big fields running over the headlands is not near the issue it will be with a front mounted header on a tractor on small irregular fields. Don't be scared of a a used Caseih. Hesston , or MF machine, they are very reliable machines.

Myself, if i was in the market for a tractor to pull a big square baler would buy an older deere or a magnum and run duals. Cheap, reliable hp. If you need more floatation yet put bigger tires on the front and buy one with 42" tires on the back axle.

I don't think you would be happy for long with only one loader tractor handling round bales so i would keep your loader tractor.

just my thoughts, i could be wrong


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> So where do I find the a tractor with HP, Zuidberg front, cab, flotation tire and price that will compare?


Most likely at HTR if you watch their inventory closely and are willing to do 5000 hours.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

8350HiTech said:


> Most likely at HTR if you watch their inventory closely and are willing to do 5000 hours.


Yeah its those high hours that concern me.
He does have a lot of road speed, euro tractors with flotation tires suspensions & zuidberg fronts.
I'd have no problem buying from him, but I dont want 7K hours.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> Thats terrible. When I drove it, it didnt seem nearly that big of a turning radius. maybe its smaller in 2WD.
> 
> Ive pretty much moved on. Now I need to find something that has a lot of the features of the JCB, but without the drawbacks.


Sounds like you might have dodged a bullet there.

73, Mark


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The hours might be the problem, your dollar is strong right now, you might get something lower hours that came into Canada before the dollar slid so badly.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

When do you plan to change to the big square baler? If still a year or so away you could just keep an eye open for that perfect deal to come along. It happens, if you have the time to watch and wait. If you are planning on it for 2016 then I can see the need to be getting something lined up now.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

So you are planning on running a front mount mower and big square baling with the same tractor. That seems like a lot of hooking and unhooking. Not trying to discourage you, but that wouldn't work for me.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't have experience with big square balers, are they harder to hook up than round balers? Hitch, pto, monitor and road lights should be it? I don't like it but some days I'll have to have 3 point mounted mower conditiioner, tedder, rake, square baler then round baler then wagons behind my large tractor.



OhioHay said:


> So you are planning on running a front mount mower and big square baling with the same tractor. That seems like a lot of hooking and unhooking. Not trying to discourage you, but that wouldn't work for me.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Trotwood2955 said:


> When do you plan to change to the big square baler? If still a year or so away you could just keep an eye open for that perfect deal to come along. It happens, if you have the time to watch and wait. If you are planning on it for 2016 then I can see the need to be getting something lined up now.


I thought the JCB 3185 was the perfect deal, but it has some drawbacks.
I cant find anything that even comes close, but I guess its a low price because its not a big seller.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> I don't have experience with big square balers, are they harder to hook up than round balers? Hitch, pto, monitor and road lights should be it? I don't like it but some days I'll have to have 3 point mounted mower conditiioner, tedder, rake, square baler then round baler then wagons behind my large tractor.


Not so much about how hard itis to hook up. Though I do believe the more you connect and disconnect electrical connections, the more issues you will have. The big issue is with multiple farms in multiple locations, you are wasting a lot of time moving unhooking and moving one tractor around. I understand that sometimes you have to do stuff like that, but why purposely create that situation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OhioHay said:


> Not so much about how hard itis to hook up. Though I do believe the more you connect and disconnect electrical connections, the more issues you will have. The big issue is with multiple farms in multiple locations, you are wasting a lot of time moving unhooking and moving one tractor around. I understand that sometimes you have to do stuff like that, but why purposely create that situation.


Because when you are a new farmer starting completely from scratch, you take all but the worst farmland and try to make the best of it to get experience and build your business.
My parcels arent too far apart. One end to the other is maybe 6-8 miles. Thats why I like the higher speed and airbrakes. As a class A CDL driver, I can appreciate those in getting from point a to point b. Maybe more important is this time of year, when I'm traveling significant distances (10+ miles) to batwing conservancy property. I think the JCB would be a big winner there.
Nobody's ever going to hand me land thats prime. As one would expect, thats all owned or been taken by the experienced farm families that have a lock on the good flat land.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

PaMike said:


> Why do you feel going to a big square baler wil be your next move? Much more expensive baler, needs bigger tractor, and it needs way more maintenance. I couldnt see having a big square unless you have A LOT of acres, there are no custom guys around, or you want to start custom work...


Around here as well most guys running a big square have 3-5 more guys just picking bales up and getting them in the dry. Can't let em get rained on and if the ground is wet/moist shouldn't even sit over night in the field.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Alternative???
Has 27mph, front 3pt, front PTO and enough for a square baler. Tractor data says 172PTO HP. Has 540/1000 PTO so I can run my 540 hay tools. 
Flotation tires, 4 sets of remotes, buddy seat, front fenders
5900hrs.....
7.5L NH diesel. 
$32,000


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Alternative???
> Has 27mph, front 3pt, front PTO and enough for a square baler. Tractor data says 172PTO HP. Has 540/1000 PTO so I can run my 540 hay tools.
> Flotation tires, 4 sets of remotes, buddy seat, front fenders
> 5900hrs.....
> ...


 The 190 hp model is without a doubt one of the worst tractors ever made, blue or red No one will touch them up here. Dealers won't take them on trade unless they can get them for nothing.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I know the MXU had a bad reputation. Is the MXM just as bad?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

PaMike said:


> I know the MXU had a bad reputation. Is the MXM just as bad?


MXM 190 and NH TM 190 are the same. Yup They were made in England. MX tractors are older and worth more up here.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I give.
White flag waived.
Just for sh!ts & giggles, what's so bad about them?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

If you spot an MXM/TM175/190, turn and run as fast as you can the other way. Whip out your handgun and take a few shots backward for good measure so it doesn't try to follow you.

175/190 were a larger frame size than the smaller versions and had more electronics and therefore more electronic problems. There are much better choices out there, Ford Genesis series comes to mind.

I have a TM120 New Holland, and compared to the (older) MX Maxxums that I have the TM is for the most part a step back. Nice enough tractor, I don't dislike running it, but it really isn't in the same league as the MXs. Fuel consumption is worse too.

How bout an MX180, later model? Bigger frame and engine than the MX170 for handling a baler.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> If you spot an MXM/TM175/190, turn and run as fast as you can the other way. Whip out your handgun and take a few shots backward for good measure so it doesn't try to follow you.
> 
> 175/190 were a larger frame size than the smaller versions and had more electronics and therefore more electronic problems. There are much better choices out there, Ford Genesis series comes to mind.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have a 8670 in my avatar. I think it would be ideal for me, but tough to find without 8,000+ hours

I actually looked at a few Mx180's. HEAVY tractor at 20,000lbs. 2x as heavy as my M126x but only 60 more HP. Worry about compaction. MXM 190 was lighter at 17,500 and same power. 
I'm not doing and ground engagement, so a lighter tractor with more HP is fine for me.

The other thing is, what if the Mxm 190 has had its "issues" resolved??? Wishful thinking I guess.....


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I actually looked at a few Mx180's. HEAVY tractor. 20,000lbs. 2x as heavy as my M126x but only 60 more HP. Worry about compaction. MXM 190 was 17,500.
> I'm not doing and ground engagement, so a lighter tractor with more HP is fine for me.
> 
> The other thing is, what if the Mxm 190 has had its "issues" resolved??? Wishful thinking I guess.....


You mean it caught on fire? Seriously if it was one of the very last ones built it may be ok, but is it worth the chance? The downtime and parts i put in the couple TM 140's i had were deal breakers and the 140's were good tractors compared to the evil 190.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

carcajou said:


> You mean it caught on fire? Seriously if it was one of the very last ones built it may be ok, but is it worth the chance? The downtime and parts i put in the couple TM 140's i had were deal breakers and the 140's were good tractors compared to the evil 190.


It's a 2004. 
I guess that's why it's a only $32,000 and "only" 5,900 hrs. I guess if we're most any other brand, that would be a great deal with all those features...

http://www.htrtractor.com/inv.htm


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

carcajou said:


> MXM 190 and NH TM 190 are the same. Yup They were made in England. MX tractors are older and worth more up here.


What was the problem with them ??


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow, I don't mean to answer for carcajou, but I haven't found many more issues for this tractor than really any other tractor in my online search.
It is basically a NH tractor painted red. Has NH 7.5L diesel, which is pretty well liked.
I read about some reliability issues, but no more than some much more popular tractors. I did read where the Basildon plant in England was starting to have some quality control issues, but that would affect a lot of tractors, not just MXM's.
Honestly, I dont really have much of a basis of comparison on whats reliable and what isnt. I have 2 small-medium Kubotas which seem to run great every day.
I like the price of this MXM 190 at $32K. Its loaded and has many of the features I want. At a price that low, it might also leave me some $$ for repairs.
Here's its blue sister tractor for $59,000. http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9951931
Kind of makes $32,000 for a red one with more features seem like a decent deal...

I'm going up there tomorrow to have a look. He has about 50 others to look at so something else may be there that's even better.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> endrow, I don't mean to answer for carcajou, but I haven't found many more issues for this tractor than really any other tractor in my online search.It is basically a NH tractor painted red. Has NH 7.5L diesel, which is pretty well liked.I read about some reliability issues, but no more than some much more popular tractors. I did read where the Basildon plant in England was starting to have some quality control issues, but that would affect a lot of tractors, not just MXM's.Honestly, I dont really have much of a basis of comparison on whats reliable and what isnt. I have 2 small-medium Kubotas which seem to run great every day.I like the price of this MXM 190 at $32K. Its loaded and has many of the features I want. At a price that low, it might also leave me some $$ for repairs.Here's its blue sister tractor for $59,000. http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9951931Kind of makes $32,000 for a red one with more features seem like a decent deal...I'm going up there tomorrow to have a look. He has about 50 others to look at so something else may be there that's even better.


I believe I would be packing.....just in case  might b like a damn kitten.....
What caliber would you recommend gearclash? Any particular spot in which to aim?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

carcajou said:


> You mean it caught on fire? Seriously if it was one of the very last ones built it may be ok, but is it worth the chance? The downtime and parts i put in the couple TM 140's i had were deal breakers and the 140's were good tractors compared to the evil 190.


That's good stuff there carajou.....thanks for the chuckle!


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

My understanding on the MXU was there were just tons of little electrical issues that always popped up. Harness connectors that corroded. Then the tractor would drive. Then to fix the connector you had to tear the tractor half apart etc etc...


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> I believe I would be packing.....just in case  might b like a damn kitten.....
> What caliber would you recommend gearclash? Any particular spot in which to aim?


Pack the caliber you are most comfortable shooting . . . and do not aim, that slows you down! Deterrence is your only hope . . .

Just joking!

JD, if you look at that MXM190, shift it through all the gears (should be an 18 speed power shift according to my NH propaganda). See how bad it stumbles on the 6-7 and 12-13 shifts. If its bad on a warm trans, it needs to be recalibrated. If its bad after that, don't buy it as the trans probably needs a rebuild.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The tm's have a good reputation here, at least the smaller ones 120/140. Big hours on lots of them, I'm talking 12k plus. They are known for harness connector corrosion and bad lift pumps too I guess. There are not so many of the big tm's here though.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> Pack the caliber you are most comfortable shooting . . . and do not aim, that slows you down! Deterrence is your only hope . . .
> 
> Just joking!
> 
> JD, if you look at that MXM190, shift it through all the gears (should be an 18 speed power shift according to my NH propaganda). See how bad it stumbles on the 6-7 and 12-13 shifts. If its bad on a warm trans, it needs to be recalibrated. If its bad after that, don't buy it as the trans probably needs a rebuild.


He also has an MX170 which I can look at. So do you. Is this your square baler tractor? If yes, Is it enough tractor? 
He also has some McCormicks, which I like because they're modernized Case-IH tractors for the most part. 
An MTX-185 would be a good find.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Square baler is a 2x3 so it is pulled by a 100hp CIH 5140. That combination has worked well. In this part of the world I would dare to put a 3x4 behind my MX170, but that would be asking a lot of it. 3x3 would be a decent match to an MX170 I think. I would put weights on the front. MX170 is 145 pto hp, weighs around 16,000 w/o weights. I scaled mine once, 18,500 with the loader on, no weights. I have found the MX170 to be a much handier tractor to drive than the boxcar Magnums. All MX Maxxums have a left hand reverser and either a 4 range/4speed power shift or a 4 range/4 speed manual synchro.

Yes the MC MTX is an evolution of the MX Maxxums. I believe the bigger MTXs have a 6.7l engine.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Gearclash said:


> Square baler is a 2x3 so it is pulled by a 100hp CIH 5140. That combination has worked well. In this part of the world I would dare to put a 3x4 behind my MX170, but that would be asking a lot of it. 3x3 would be a decent match to an MX170 I think. I would put weights on the front. MX170 is 145 pto hp, weighs around 16,000 w/o weights. I scaled mine once, 18,500 with the loader on, no weights. I have found the MX170 to be a much handier tractor to drive than the boxcar Magnums. All MX Maxxums have a left hand reverser and either a 4 range/4speed power shift or a 4 range/4 speed manual synchro.
> 
> Yes the MC MTX is an evolution of the MX Maxxums. I believe the bigger MTXs have a 6.7l engine.


OK, how about '98 New Holland 8670 Genesis?
I found a low houred one with 18 speed "road speed" trans, flotation tires and fornt pto/3pt hitch for ~$40k.
Looks excellent.
But enough for square baler? 145 PTO HP


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

That will run a 3x3. Might have to gear down a little on steeper hills.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Couple guys around here say they can be safely turned up another 20+ HP easily


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?OHID=9931517&lp=th


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

8670 would be more tractor than an MX170, even if the hp is the same. The Genesis has 100 cubic inch bigger engine.

I would like the opportunity to drive a smaller JCB Fastrac some day. They intrigue me. They look like a wheel loader converted into a tractor.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My big tractor journey started with an 8670. It's my avatar picture. Always thought it was heavy enough, but thought I needed a 8870 to get enough twist. 
8870 wouldn't work because it doesn't have a 540 PTO. 
The JCB was really cool. I honesty loved the thing. Cab like a truck mounted on an 4 wheel drive air braked tractor with a 5.9 Cummins diesel. I don't know what else a guy could ask for. Surprised it never took off.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> My big tractor journey started with an 8670. It's my avatar picture. Always thought it was heavy enough, but thought I needed a 8870 to get enough twist.
> 8870 wouldn't work because it doesn't have a 540 PTO.
> The JCB was really cool. I honesty loved the thing. Cab like a truck mounted on an 4 wheel drive air braked tractor with a 5.9 Cummins diesel. I don't know what else a guy could ask for. Surprised it never took off.


Turning radius......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Forgot it has a full suspension, too.,

I think the turning radius may be inaccurate. When I drove it in 2WD, the turning radius seemed fine, but not as good as traditional tractor.,


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

JD, is the genesis priced where you could buy it and still keep both loader tractors? It sure would be nice if you were able to expand from two tractors to three.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OhioHay said:


> JD, is the genesis priced where you could buy it and still keep both loader tractors? It sure would be nice if you were able to expand from two tractors to three.


Yes, it may be possible, but I'd be pushing it with the money. 
It would be great to be able to keep the manure spreader on NH all winter, or mower on it all summer until the square baler can be afforded.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> Yes, it may be possible, but I'd be pushing it with the money.
> It would be great to be able to keep the manure spreader on NH all winter, or mower on it all summer until the square baler can be afforded.


Understand the money all to well. Seems to be a constant challenge in farming. Sometimes I have made decisions that turn out well and sometimes not. I wish you the best in your decisions and pray for wisdom for you.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

RE the steering, I believe some JCB's have 4 wheel steer and some are 2 wheel steer. Some have a steering box with rigid draglink so they can meet the legal requirements for high speed road travel but I believe these are the same ones that don't turn as sharp.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Like the others have said, its your decision and money, and I personally like to be very conservative with equipment purchases. But if you think you can swing this one and keep your two existing tractors I'd say it's worth a shot. And if for some reason it becomes too much of a strain financially, you can always sell one of them at that point. Or if you find the new tractor plus one loader tractor is all you really need, you can sell the third at that point. You would have an out either way.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

'98 NH 8670
Excellent wide rubber - really need it for my soft ground
Only 2,500 hours-almost hard to believe.
Tractor came from Europe
7.5L 170/145 PTO HP-can be raised another 20 HP no problems.
18 speed "road speed" power shift 27MPH
Has 540/1000 PTO-must have 540 for my hay tools. Biggest tractor I can find w/ 540.
Looks excellent
$36,000

Add Zuidberg front 3PT with accumulator, PTO and hyd outlets
$40,500

Downside to JCB:
no air brakes (I can live without them, but AB much better)
No suspension
Much smaller cab
No buddy seat

Upside:
10 k cheaper- may allow me to keep 3 tractors.
Power shift trans- love the 18spd power-shift.
Parts & service much better
Well regarded tractor
Better controls layout


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## CenTex (Oct 22, 2015)

FYI, if you are looking for opinions and issues related to a particular model tractor, I find the talk.newagtalk.com Machinery Talk Forum site useful. Most of the posters are large Midwest grain farmers but the site has a high volume of posts and a search will usually turn up multiple relevant topics.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

That kind of hours at that price would make me very suspicious of the actual hours. Those tractors are too well liked to be discounted for no reason. The best thing to do would be to have a third party with Genesis experience take a close look at it.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Have you seen that genesis in person? Seeing that it came from Europe, and they use a lot of tractors for road travel, and they got a lot of hours on them..... could it be 12500?

Rodney


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Rodney R said:


> Have you seen that genesis in person? Seeing that it came from Europe, and they use a lot of tractors for road travel, and they got a lot of hours on them..... could it be 12500?
> 
> Rodney


The hour meter has 5 digit spaces. So if it was 12,500, it would show up on he meter.
I was thinking the same thing Rodney!


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Rodney R said:


> Have you seen that genesis in person? Seeing that it came from Europe, and they use a lot of tractors for road travel, and they got a lot of hours on them..... could it be 12500?
> 
> Rodney


I'd be asking if it was just built in Europe and shipped here, or was it built then used there then shipped here? If used there and then shipped here why?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Thorim said:


> I'd be asking if it was just built in Europe and shipped here, or was it built then used there then shipped here? If used there and then shipped here why?


Why? Because the importer makes money.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

For us on the east coast there is a significant number of euro market tractors that come over. Take a look on German and UK tractor sales sites, lots of models are much cheaper over there.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> The hour meter has 5 digit spaces. So if it was 12,500, it would show up on he meter.
> I was thinking the same thing Rodney!


The hour meter may have been replaced. I have a baler whose computer says it has 1000 odd bales on it. The baler obviously has done more bales than that so the computer must have been replaced at some point.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Seller is an importer dealer. He claims that he "places orders" with European and Canadian wholesalers. When he bought this tractor, he asked for a "8670 with under 5,000 hrs" and this one was delivered with under 2500.

I truly dont know if the hour meter is accurate. The condition of the tractor makes me think its possible, but if its a 1998, thats only 139hrs/year.

It may be worth noting the 2002 JCB I was looking at only had 1700 hours on it. Thats only 122hrs/yr.

Is there any other way of verifying hours? I would doubt there's any service records.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't know about European models, but I know on US models if you call the dealer they can look the serial number up and see a history. I have buddy's that has a good relationship with a local IH dealer. They can call up and give a serial and the dealer can tell them the last time the tractor was put into the IH computer system for either repair or warranty work. Its amazing how many tractors have hourmeters that magically run backwards... especially when they have been through the hands of a couple equipment jockeys...

To me the only thing the hourmeter affects is resale value. Overall condition is way more important.

I sell NH skidsteers, and for $500 I can get an hourmeter from the dealer that says any hours you want..500 hrs, 1500 hrs, 10000 hrs etc.Dealers reprogram dashes/hourmeters all the time as replacements for damaged non functioning ones...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> I don't know about European models, but I know on US models if you call the dealer they can look the serial number up and see a history. I have buddy's that has a good relationship with a local IH dealer. They can call up and give a serial and the dealer can tell them the last time the tractor was put into the IH computer system for either repair or warranty work. Its amazing how many tractors have hourmeters that magically run backwards... especially when they have been through the hands of a couple equipment jockeys...
> To me the only thing the hourmeter affects is resale value. Overall condition is way more important.
> I sell NH skidsteers, and for $500 I can get an hourmeter from the dealer that says any hours you want..500 hrs, 1500 hrs, 10000 hrs etc.Dealers reprogram dashes/hourmeters all the time as replacements for damaged non functioning ones...


Yeah that's true, but do you think a new dash cluster is still available for this older Genesis?

Maybe I should get oil analysis done on it? I don't have any other ideas (except move on to another tractor)

I like this tractor because it's set up the way I want, has enough ass for a 3x4, has 540 PTO, Zuidberg front, is well liked, and fits my budget. 
Anyone has any alternative ideas, let me know. I like the NH 8670, Deere 7810, McCormick 185, etc.
Must have a 540 stub.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Buy it.


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

That sounds way too cheap if the tractor has only 2500 original hours. Those 8670's that are floating around for sale for that kind of money are in the 6-8000 hr. range. I'd be skeptical for sure. Not saying it's not possible, but just doesn't sound quite right.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'd check it out carefully but it sounds like great fit. Check over drawbar holes and 3 point components for wear. Check for slop in steering and super steer up close while someone cranks the steering etc. usually pretty hard to hide high hours on a newer tractor. Plastics will have wear or damage from taking it apart. Drain plugs will show lots of wear hopefully from services. Hydraulic fill cap will have paint all chipped off etc, battery clamps may show signs of boosting arcs and bolts from a couple of batteries. Lots of little signs.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

6125 said:


> That sounds way too cheap if the tractor has only 2500 original hours. Those 8670's that are floating around for sale for that kind of money are in the 6-8000 hr. range. I'd be skeptical for sure. Not saying it's not possible, but just doesn't sound quite right.


Aren't the European versions usually a bit cheaper?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

discbinedr said:


> Aren't the European versions usually a bit cheaper?


They have more features and they are cheaper.
I think it might be the exchange rate.
Right now, the dollar is 1.35 Canadian. If you're near the US/CD border, its a great time to buy a Canadian tractor.

Importing, reconditioning and selling Euro/CD tractors is turning into an industry around here.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

discbinedr said:


> Aren't the European versions usually a bit cheaper?


They are but it's still odd. If it was a North American Genesis with true 2500 hours I'd be expecting it listed for 45k.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So here's the dash. It appears theres room for a 5th digit place


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Looks like there is room but seems like it should be right-aligned not left-aligned. I wouldn't think when it hits 10,000 hours the other four digits would then shift over to the right.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Looks like a nice tractor based on the pics. Original paint or been touched up?


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

I don't know about that jd. Someone on here should be familiar with the digital readouts on these to help you out with that. I do take notice however that the bottom of the steps on both sides don't look to be bent all to heck like normal Euro tractors are. Looks very clean. Any warrenty on motor and trans. or anything? I know, that'd be a miracle....

Edit: I'm gonna agree with trotwood on the theory of the readout being shifted like that.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Looks like there is room but seems like it should be right-aligned not left-aligned. I wouldn't think when it hits 10,000 hours the other four digits would then shift over to the right.


I truly appreciate your helping with this. So you think the readout should be right oriented? Not left oriented? You might be right!

On edit: Heres another nearby 8670. Open the link and go through the pictures and you'll see a picture of the dash. Notice the digital readout is also left oriented.
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10009195

Here's another- a 1998 with even fewer hours: http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10067563

Makes you wonder if these clusters can be "turned back", but I wouldnt think digital readouts could be??


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

Find one that's advertised 10000 hrs. + and look at that readout. That may be hard to find though....That'll be the tell-tale.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Heres an 8970 with 10,*** + hours on it.
Digital readout a little tough to see, but you can see theres a "1" all the way to the left.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10028185


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Did someone else buy it yet?


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Heres an 8970 with 10,*** + hours on it.
> Digital readout a little tough to see, but you can see theres a "1" all the way to the left.
> 
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10028185


I was just about to post that.....there's the million dollar answer


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah but:
What if its a cluster from another tractor?
or
What if that cluster is one that can be turned back?

I know....that could happen with any used tractor.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Yep looks like that pic does give the answer to that question. And I don't know a thing about these tractors or know which direction it is "supposed" to be oriented just was guessing based on how it looked and what I'm used to on green tractors : )


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

Write down everything slowzuki said and go look at it again tomorrow. Better yet, fly him in and take him with when you go...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I can look at it and probably tell if its got more wear on it than hours on the cluster.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I can look at it and probably tell if its got more wear on it than hours on the cluster.


I was looking forward to hearing what happened with you and Slow together.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> I was looking forward to hearing what happened with you and Slow together.


We could talk politics...


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I reached my positive quota for the day.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

The rear end looks repainted.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Yup. My NEW tractor did too. Because it was. Europeans do not value used Iron like we do. That is why it comes over here. After freight and profit still cheaper than used n american model.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

On almost anything newer like that, the cluster is just a read out, and the data is stored in the computer. So if the computer was replaced, and the tech didn't update the hours...... But like was said previously - there are lot of little signs, and there is the chance that it's correct. Heck I have a 40 year old tractor with just over 3000.

Rodney


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

What province is the tractor in right now?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It's in my "province" Pennsylvania.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

JD- My neighbor bought a similar tractor a few months ago. It was a European tractor. He said the price was hard to believe but the exchange rate makes all the difference...He bought from a dealer in the western part of the state that mostly deals in Ford/NH tractors. He has been happy with it...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike, thats somewhat reassuring.

Here's a trend I found a little uncomfortable:
I looked at probably 30 8670's.
More than 1/2 had what I would consider "low hours" on them for the age of the tractor. This tractor has been out of production for like 15 years and many I looked at have 2,000-5,000 hours on them.
Few, maybe only 3, had > 10,000 hours.

To me this means only 2 things possible:
1. Tractor has easy to roll back hr meter.
2. Tractor not well liked and sits in favor of another tractor.

Comparable brands routinely have 8,000-12,000 hours.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Jd, I don't envy you your decision. It seem like you are contemplating this decision by looking at every clue that you can about every detail possible.
The good part is, when you make your decision, it will be the right one.
The bad part is you can think yourself into never buying something because perfection or absolution cannot be reached.

That being said, how soon do you need the tractor? Quite a few speculators think the price is dropping on equipment and will continue to drop. Do you think the market will drop more than the off-season savings of buying now?

If you are thinking keeping the other tractor, cash price may be lower by the time that you start "needing" the newer one?

If you're thinking of buying the tractor with the possibility of selling the other tractor later (if required), and if tractor prices do fall, you will be upside down on the new one and will have to sell your old one for less than speculated.

If you think prices are going down and think you will have to sell the other tractor... sell it now and buy the replacement later-at a lower difference. Or, if you can keep your other tractor, buy the newer one at the lowest point that you think they will go (within your need-time frame).

You're needs are way beyond even my wants. Prices for my equipment is plummeting. I just bought a barn-kept IH grain drill yesterday from a retired farmer (decent shape/paint etc) for a C-note. When scrap is down, I go shopping for new equipment.

73, Mark


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mark those are valid, great points & observations.
You are right-I do like to over analyze at times.
Luckily, I have options. I pretty much own the smaller Kubota and have a gentleman who will give me what I paid for it one year ago as a "safety outlet" if I needed to sell, so Im safe.
Would really like the 3rd tractor though. would make the craziness of having 10 hay fields and several bush hogging customers spread out all over a little more sane and give me a little more iron for upcoming expansion.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

What about this tractor? Only 2400 hrs. Wide rubber. 18 speed road speed powershift. Same as NH 8670 but painted red and built at the old versatile plant in Canada.
Local dealer has it-VERY cheap. Could add Zuidberg front. Rubbers a little low-20%, but I kind of like that for a hay tractor.
Picture on right is actual tractor I'm proposing
picture on left is a different tractor with Zuidberg.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> What about this tractor? Only 2400 hrs. Wide rubber. 18 speed road speed powershift. Same as NH 8670 but painted red and built at the old versatile plant in Canada.
> Local dealer has it-VERY cheap. Could add Zuidberg front. Rubbers a little low-20%, but I kind of like that for a hay tractor.
> Picture on right is actual tractor I'm proposing
> picture on left is a different tractor with Zuidberg.


They were making red G-series well before Genesis production moved to the Buhler plant in Canada for the last two years of 70 series with NH decals. If you're enthused about it because it's late model, make sure the serial number agrees with you.

Other than that, cheap is good. 20% tires don't bother me either but you talk about some of your hills in ways that would make me a little hesitant about that. Price a new set (if you haven't already) just so you'd know what you'd be getting into in case you felt they were too smooth. Realistically, I bet they'd work for you just fine now but if you do go to a square baler you should probably figure on new tires for the tractor at the same time.

And then there's the previous issue of whether you believe the hours


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I wonder if Phaerus can install the Zuidberg?

He doesn't seem like the type to swap out dash panels, but I guess it coulda been done "over there".

I think the tires would be OK, too. Might have to use 4WD a little more often. Agree on tire upgrade when square baler becomes possible.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I wonder if Phaerus can install the Zuidberg?
> He doesn't seem like the type to swap out dash panels, but I guess it coulda been done "over there".
> 
> I think the tires would be OK, too. Might have to use 4WD a little more often. Agree on tire upgrade when square baler becomes possible.


Agree, he's not doing it. They have too good of a thing going to screw it up. Who knows who had it before it got on the boat...

Don't know why they couldn't do that work for you. Shouldn't they have some take-offs piled up somewhere?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

There isnt too much those mennonite guys wont tackle...

Did you go to HTR in person to see the tractor?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> There isnt too much those mennonite guys wont tackle...
> 
> Did you go to HTR in person to see the tractor?


Maybe tomorrow. Gotta take my son to Lynchburg, VA to meet the lacrosse coach. I dont know if I can get up there and back soon enuf to get to Lynch 6 hour drive. If not then I hope Monday.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Did you get over to see it? A very old JCB popped up for sale semi-locally. Finally learned a bit about them, its one of the old 100 series with truck style steering box, wide turning but high road speed.

No gear splitter on it but I think its the 185 with the cummins. I've got to say I'm a bit curious about it. No front pto, no front hitch. Air compressor problems so the rear suspension is collapsed I think.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Did you get over to see it? A very old JCB popped up for sale semi-locally. Finally learned a bit about them, its one of the old 100 series with truck style steering box, wide turning but high road speed.
> 
> No gear splitter on it but I think its the 185 with the cummins. I've got to say I'm a bit curious about it. No front pto, no front hitch. Air compressor problems so the rear suspension is collapsed I think.


No it was 12* here with winds blowing so hard, top 1/4 of my round bale I put in the feeder blew away.

Maybe weds/thursday.

realistically, I cant see a very good chance he has all those parts laying around I'd need. I would have to think it's going to add 5-10 grand to price.

I'm starting to weaken on the front hookup I dream of....

I may just go for the tractor and continue to pull a discbine and manure wagon with it.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The JCB that was local was a 185, sold for 7000$ within 12 hours of advertised. Air compressor was failed so you couldn't get the air warning lights off to see if anything else was bad.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Really hard to go wrong for $7000. Someone mechanically inclined likely got a deal.


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