# How to handle square bale situation...



## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

If you in my position, please tell me how you best spend your $12,000

We are going to hay our 40 acre fields (currently leased). All barns are centrally located on 100 acres. However, they are no not bale stacker wagon friendly (16' high)

Already equipped with New Holland 565 with kicker, discbine mower and kuhns rake and tedder. Already have tractor with loader and international 1066 for mowing and baling.

So, Option 1 is buying 4 kicker wagons used at 3,000 a piece
Or, Option 2 is buying a Kuhns accumulator and grapple for 12,000. I already have 2 24' deck over trailers for hay transporting.

I will be haying with my father. He will soon be retired and do all mowing and tedding and after work I plan to help finish up the raking while he starts the baling. I should usually be ableto get a 3rd guy to help us, but I hate counting on hired help. Where as I can always get my wife to drive truck and trailer thougout field for collecting grapple loads.

So, what would you do? Any other better ways of handling the hay?


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Surely labor isnt the issue, obuma had fixed that problem. Labor has been a pita for quite some time , I broke down a while back an started to use H2a visas for hired help. Not too many out there like or are cut out to be on a farm. On a ''kicker wagon '' does it open on rear ? Here there are no such pieces of equipment its either big rounds or big squares, handful of small squares go up here. Those wagons can fit under the barn ?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Won't some of the smaller stackers work with a 16' height?


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Option BBB. Build a bigger barn?


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

Can't afford another barn...so kickers and hand stack of barn same night/next day or accumlator?


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

My first thought on this pertains to your location. Starting to bale that late in the day in our neck of the woods can be tricky as the due sets in. Secondly again because of location, I wouldn't let small squares sit on the ground let alone dragging them around. Our weather is just to moist for it, and often times the ground is still damp, out west is another story. 
If your timing is right and your patient you can pick up used wagons for under 3k. Buy an elevator and a few good tarps. You'll be all set and happy you aren't chasing after small squares as the due sets in the sun is down and rain is at your doorstep. 
Just my 2cents.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Adding to my last comments, if it's good hay, your going to be needing quite a few more wagons if you plan on kicking 40 acres at once.

Another possibility for you is get flat wagons that fit in your barn.... Have your wife on the wagon stacking Instead of sitting in a comfortable truck


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Since the hay and barns are on the same property then the wagon route is an option. The idea of hand stacking would not be the best option in my opinion.

The accumulation and grapple are the best idea I have ever seen. Our area is rolling and terraced. The accumulators still do pretty well here. I have a friend and one of his fields is 4 miles from his farm. He and one person raked, baled and hauled 750 squares in one afternoon. He had enough trailers to just stack and back under a roof.

With the grapple you can unload from the trailer and stack in the barn as high as the loader will reach.

Will you be selling the hay or feeding it? If selling you can use the grapple to load the buyers trailer.

I have an old pull type bale wagon we used for years. I would dump the hay in the barn and stack by hand, more efficient use of space. Hand stacking got old.


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## MFred (Nov 29, 2013)

Can you pull the wagons in the barn out of the weather or do you need to unload/tarp the same day?
How much hay do you plan on doing at once? Are you keeping the hay to use for yourself?


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

I'm hoping to sell the hay to the horse people. I can get 4 wagons undercover at once. When I say help my father bale after work, I ment he will hopefully be bailing after lunch and bale until dew...say 5pm. While he finishes bailing I'd be accumulating in the field rather than hand stacking in the barn. I'm hoping to dropn10 acres at a time.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Kuhns.....thank me later


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Haymaker101 said:


> I'm hoping to sell the hay to the horse people. I can get 4 wagons undercover at once. When I say help my father bale after work, I ment he will hopefully be bailing after lunch and bale until dew...say 5pm. While he finishes bailing I'd be accumulating in the field rather than hand stacking in the barn. I'm hoping to dropn10 acres at a time.


That time table seems a lot more manageable. There is a lot to be said for not having to hand stack. As Tim/south points out it can be done fast. Again, you would want to make sure your ground is very dry. Often times when I'm baling up here in Vermont some of my field especially in the low spots will still have a lot of moisture in them. The fact that you can pull your wagons in a barn is very helpful. We will often sell right out of the wagon and never touch it!


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

So if you we're in my position, would you do the Kuhns versus the kicker wagons? How do you put up your square bales now?


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## MFred (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm for wagons. Pulling the wagons in the barn is a big help.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Kuhns.....thank me later


A good system, just not in my cards. MY JRLong is just a backup.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

If you already have a loader to hook the grapple to for loading/unloading that would to me be the obvious best choice. Even if you have to buy a loader to put the grapple on that still may be the best choice. I just can't see spending that kind of money on kicker wagons and still having to unload/stack by hand. If your area is like here the only help that is worth having will be you and your family so the less hand work you have to do the better.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Oops I just reread your original post and see you already have a loader to put the grapple on.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm still in favor of a smaller stacker that fits in the building.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

What happens to these bales AFTER they are either in accumlated grabs, or on wagons or stacks? Can you use the grab to stack them, or is hand stacking involved? If you are able to stack them with the grab, then you can make it 100% machine labor, unlike anything else. In that case, that is the way to go. The wagon/kicker is fast, but the wagons have to be unloaded, and for 10 acres you would not be able to put all the bales on the wagons, so you would have to unload wagons in order to finish baling. The stacker is in between - do you have a ground level floor in your barn? How high? I don't know about the height, but you'd have to be able to back it in, but you could keep going with no labor, until it was time to move the bales out.

Rodney


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

It is really nice to be able to take the Kuhns grapple to the storage building and load wagons to deliver or load your customers trailers. I have several customers that the clinching reason they buy from me and maybe pay slightly more is because I can load their trailer quickly and all they have to do is secure the load. One fella told me he is able to come by himself and get loaded and then pull the load in his building and feed off the trailer and he never handles the hay other than feeding. The Kuhns accumulator may not be as fast as a stack wagon but the Kuhns system does have some benefits that the stack wagons do not have. Anytime you can make your operation nearly all mechanical with minimal labor it is a win-win situation.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

1033 or 1037 New Holland would work.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Lostin55 said:


> 1033 or 1037 New Holland would work.


I can't offer much advice on the accumulators, but I think any of the pull type stacker wagons from model 1032 to 1038 would be able to fit under the 16 foot limit that you mentioned. However, if there are other posts, cross beams, etc. in the way, that could be a problem. The 1032 and 1036 are a two bale wide models while the 1033, 1034, 1037 and 1038 are three bale wide models. The 1034 and 1038 also had single bale unload capability.

Other things to consider:

What is the area around the barn like for maneuverability? Stacker wagons take some room to get turned around, especially with the tandem axles.

Is there a place you could set the stacks off outside the barn and then move them inside with the grapple? This would have the benefit of being able to stack higher than the 7 layers that the stacker wagons will put up (at least the ones I listed above).


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

You can buy brand new metal racks for just over 3k, and used for way cheaper especially wood.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Dill said:


> You can buy brand new metal racks for just over 3k, and used for way cheaper especially wood.


From whom have you seen new steel wagons just over 3?


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Im with Dill plus im cheap. Handy with woodworking/carpentry? I would buy two or three steel wagons then find some cheap used gears and build some wood racks. Then as they fall apart replace with steel wagons after you are able to build up some capital. Plus you can put the steel racks on the gears you have. Only takes one on the wagon and one stacking in the mow. Well if your full of piss and vinegar you can do it yourself.

If you go with four wagons your dad can have them sitting waiting to be unloaded when you get home then you can take and finish what you have down and ready then pull them in the barn to unload if you dont need them empty the next day.

I can tell you after this year an accumulator might not do well on wet ground. With a wagon behind baler you cut ruts the same direction as you go on the field. Tractor with a grapple your gonna be cutting alot of ruts cross ways and every which way and those are the worse to deal with the next time your in the field. Plus your only carrying 10? bales with the grapple so thats alot of running around packing the soil and making ruts. Wagons dont need to be filled all the way either...


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Not sure how a Kuhn accumulator floats on wet ground either


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

I have 5 kicker wagons myself and through trading wagons back and forth can have up to about 9 at a time. So you can see I have good capacity, so that said, if I keep doing the amount of bales I am for many more years I will be really leaning towards selling all the wagons and buying the kuhns accumulator. You need good reliable help to unload and stack 700+ bales per evening; you and a buddy just aren't going to be doing it, not long atleast.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

18 year neighbor kid and myself stacked 600 something on wagons then unloaded same day. Yeah he was crawling when done I wasn't much better after milking and feeding too. You know your help is tired when you can sit and wait for bales to come on the mow conveyor....


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks for all there responses. There are a lot of good ideas, but when thinking about unloading and reloading 8,000 bales in a season, the accumulator looks better and better. The ground is all very flat with about 4 acres on a slight hill. The ground for the most part is very dry for the accumlator and tractor ruts.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> I have several customers that the clinching reason they buy from me and maybe pay slightly more is because I can load their trailer quickly and all they have to do is secure the load.


Same reasoning in our area. The main hay farmer here will also load your hay bought in the field. People really like not having to load bales in the hot summer.

They load with the rake tractor while the baler is still going.

I watched him load a 16 foot trailer with side rails. I wondered how he was going make that work. He loaded stacks from the rear of the trailer and pushed the stack forward with the grapple. It was not a perfect fit but worked. The buyer would tie off each stack and head down the road.

A person can load then stack the hay into a barn, never handling a bale.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Okay so the local guy is up a bit in price but

All Steel Wagons w/P.T. Floors
Complete Hay Wagons------------Body Only
18' w/ 8 Ton Gear $3650.---------$2450.
20' w/ 8 Ton Gear $3800.---------$2600.

I've got 4 wagons and so does my father, the only new one he paid 3k for. The rest I've grabbed a good rack here and a running gear there. I got one metal rack and gear for 1k. The wood wagons for less than that, one had a bad gear, but I found a real nice one and sold the junker to some moron for a chicken coop for 500 bucks. Plenty of wagon deals out there just takes some time. I don't get the accumulator, lots more trips over the field. Also I have hay customers that want delivery, I can just run the wagons down the road and boom, delivered 100-150 bales without touching one. I don't bother stacking on the rack. I don't want the liability of having someone back there, nor do I want to pay them.


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

I like to hear from anyone who runs an accumulator. What kind and how do you like it? Any regrets? How many bales are you putting up in a day/night?


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I vote accumulator.

IF you have room in your barn to move the tractor around and utilize barn space.

We run a Steffens 10 bale and it's nice, one guy can rake bale and put 600 bales in the barn in an afternoon if he has a truck driver. And we really don't push it. If we had the RIGHT help we could do 1200 in an afternoon but making square bales seems to confuse the help sometimes and it's simpler for me just to go do it myself.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

The video of the Hoelscher accumulator that I watched shows the bales being turned on their side and being deposited on the ground that way. If you can stack bales on their sides in the barn using their grapple, then this system might be the way to go if you can get it for $12,000. I prefer to stack my small square bales on the flat edge as it makes a better stack on the trailer, in the barn, and on customer's trailers. Can your small square baler turn the bales on their sides before they go onto the accumulator and then can the Hoelscher accumulator accommodate 10 bales flat and then drop them on the ground? Also, the video stated that the Hoelscher accumulator can handle bales from 38 to 40+ inches in length. This means that you may not be able to down-size the weight of your small square bales to 50 pounds for easier handling by women who feed them to their horses. A 50 lb bale will be about 36 inches in length.

Currently we have only 8 acres of alfalfa, but remembering how tough it was to unload and stack semi-loads of 100 lb+ small square alfalfa bales in the hot barn when I was a teenager, I purchased a 10 bale accumulator and a grapple, and then decided not to drag the alfalfa bales on the ground, so I'm not using the front end loader accumulator and am going to sell it. I collect the small square bales one at a time in the front-end loader grapple and when I have 10 they get loaded onto the flat bed trailer. I load two 50 bale stacks on the trailer and my wife, who has been monitoring the loading of the trailer from the house comes to the field and drives the truck/trailer to the barn while I collect another 10 with the grapple and go to the barn to stack them and off-load the trailer. The beauty of stacking with the grapple is that loading a customer's trailer from the barn-stacked hay is the reverse of stacking the bales into the barn. No need to hand stack at any time. Being a young man you may be able to off-load and stack small squares from the wagons, but it will soon make an old man out of you.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

I have a NH 273 baler , Parrish accumulator , and a WR Long Grapple. I can rake , bale , and put 600 bales easily in the barn in about 6 hours . My barn is right beside the field so I carry the bales to the barn with the grapple.


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks broadriverhay, how do you like your parrish accumulator? They can be bought for almost half as much as Kuhns, but I worry about dragging the bales and breaking up bales. Would you buy another Parrish?


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

Also, do you have the removable rails on your grapple? Can you stack okay with the rails on or do they need to be removed?


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## pengs68 (Jul 3, 2009)

My brother and I do 7500 50 pound bales with 3 9X18 wagons. I may be sick but I enjoy stacking the hay in the barn. My neighbor uses an accumulator then has to unload and stack in an old barn. He has about 8 people helping him. I like the kicker way but understand why the accumulator is better with newer barns.


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## astropilot (Jun 3, 2008)

One thing to remember that if you over bale your immediate storage, that pulling/pushing a load under cover. It can be a problem (Not enough pull in storage). We commonly bale one day (600-800 bales) and unload of a morning the next with 2 people. We can unload with a grapple but prefer to unload by hand for Quality Assurance of the hay. Also we run a 15 bale Steffens accumulator/grapple and love it. Mark


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## -Ace- (Sep 15, 2014)

Have you looked at the WR Long Grapalator, or there's a few other brands that make a similar grapple/accumulator combo attachment. That's what we've been running on a Bobcat S750 or on a Case Maxxum 115, it makes accumulating and loading quick with only one machine tied up to do both, plus they're half of what you'd spend on a Kuhn accumulator and grapple.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

An acquaintance runs a NH self propelled bale wagon, 160 bales per load, 9 high! He has a JD 2955 with loader and grapple that will reach up and get the top layer off the bale wagon stack. He uses that for loading out for delivery. He has a 60' x 150' clear span barn with 18' or 20' overhead clearance.

If I had the building, I would be thinking bale wagon and loader grapple! IMHO, the best of both worlds.

In the meantime, I'll struggle along with my belt thrower and 5 kicker racks!


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## Haymaker101 (Sep 1, 2014)

Do you ever have bales break or collect dirt while pushing them on the ground?


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

If I ever felt the need for a second baler, it'd be kuhns accumulator behind the baler, 15 bale preferably, and a kuhns tie-grapple for picking them up and putting them on pallets on a flat trailer so when they get to the barn, offloading with a forklift 50-60 bales at a time.

For now though, just not enough equipment operators around.


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

If the ground is wet I'd say they tend to get smeared a little. I have a homemade 8 bale buncher that I made last year that I use out front of a JD 3010 and they just drag on the ground. I only used it once this year since I got farmhand accumulator. I used it on a neighbors field because it's just a tough field to do with a steep side hill, oddly shaped with odd corners etc. and I need to double the windrows with the old rake I have to use the farmhand. Though it would be a pain to do that in that field. Anyway, took me 2 hours to bale the 450 bales and about 2 1/2 hours to get them bunched and I broke one bale which was my fault. It was dry so no dirt on the bales. Rough field with lots of woodchuck holes. Of course it's better to have an accumulator behind the baler, eliminates having to bunch them after.

edit: I should say that one reason I only broke one bale on kind of a rough field was because when bunching after baling you can move around and avoid some obstacles where you wouldn't be able to do that pulling a buncher that drags them on the ground behind the baler. One may have more trouble with that system on a rough field I would think but I have no experience with that.


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## MikeinKy (Feb 27, 2012)

I have a ten bale flat kuhns accumulator and grapple. I can do 5 - 600 bales in an afternoon by myself. bale load and haul to the barn, about 3 miles away. I wouldn't be without it. I pull it behind a New Holland 570 baler.


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## maknhay (Jan 6, 2010)

Reading about all these bale wagons and drag accumulators is making my head hurt. Go with a Steffen 950 with the tie arm option. This will put the first two in crossways so your 10 bale pack will be 6'x8'. Set on a trailer you will then have your rail bale and your load will be tied for safer transport not to mention you will be using the entire width of the trailer and still have a 36" bale. Don't want to buy an expensive new bale fork? Can you find a Farmhand 8 pack fork in your area? Those will work just fine to pick up the ten pack. Just always grab it with the rail bale in the back. You can always cut it and put 18" in the length of it so the very front tooth bar grabs the rail in front. This will allow you to tie the stack in the barn. I've stretched several of them. Now, on to controlling your traffic in your fields. When we plan on small baling a field depending in weather at the time and yield we might only take down 30 or 40 acres. After we have raked we will then bring the flatbeds out and park them length ways in the middle of the field from one end to the other. when I start baling I will work from the center out on each side of the flatbeds. The loader operator can then be picking up packs immediately behind the baler. as you work your way out and get farther away from the wagons you can go at a steep angle towards the farther away trailer if your ground is soft. And yes, you will get some crossways compaction where you are loading but if you always park them i the same spot you can minimize those. There have been countless times that by the time I get back to the field from taking the baler home to help bring loads in the loader operator is done picking up bales and ready to head in. Now you have the choice of backing those in the shed and unload in the morning or grab a beer and sit on the loader with the FM stereo playing your favorite country tunes and stack hay in the shed like a boss all by yourself instead of dealing with a pack of tuckered out highscool kids that are sweaty and hungry...and wish to drink your beer.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

Sorry for the late reply. Yes I would buy another Parrish accumulator. They also make a grapple just like the WR Long. You have to bale good tight bales that's all. The bales sliding on the ground has not been a problem. I know someone with a WR Long grapulator and he does not like it at all. If you have someone to help ,one person can bale and accumulate while the other is picking up the hay with the grapple. With help I can do a thousand in an afternoon.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I run a Kuhns 1036F behind a New Holland 315. I bought the Accumulator this year after leaving my full time job and not having the labor to stack wagons. Most of the hay I make I sell right out of the field. With 3 people we moved about 1800 bales. Had one raking, one baling, and one picking up and stacking. Started baling about 1 and the bulk of the baling done at 5. The advantage we see with the accumulator is the baler never has to stop and don't have to worry about running out of wagons waiting to be unloaded. Being wet this year we moved the bales down to the end of the field for pick up, otherwise we will stack them in the field for the customers. If taking them home I would do about 600 by myself.


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