# Seeding Tim/O-grass questions



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have a field which has probably not been aerated or tilled for many years. It seems like hard pan on top. 
Question:
If I aerated the soil with a plugger-type aerator, then used a spreader to seed with Tim/O-grass mix, would enough seed get into the plug holes to grow? 
What if I did same as above, but as a 3rd step, use a manure spreader and spread a thin layer of low cost mushroom soil on top? 
Would this make the possibility of seeds growing a lot better? Or are first 2 steps going to work? 
We used to reseed lawns this way with good success
Don't want to use no till drill because customers don't want to burn existing stands with roundup.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I am not sure that would work this time of the year . A coating of mushroom soil may hinder the emergence of orchard grass . Some spread it to choke small weeds out. Me I would go out tomorrow bush hog it that low you are practically digging ground and plant with notill drill


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> I am not sure that would work this time of the year . A coating of mushroom soil may hinder the emergence of orchard grass . Some spread it to choke small weeds out. Me I would go out tomorrow bush hog it that low you are practically digging ground and plant with notill drill


Something about cutting the grass down doesn't seem right. Wouldn't it grow back fast enough to out compete the new seedlings?


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

I would think the current stand would crowd out what you seed.

Maybe one of these would work in your situation

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/23202-aerway-topdress-seeder/


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So there's no way to add seeds for new crop without spraying roundup first and starting over?


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

JD, I have no-tilled into grass fields may times. Not the perfect way to seed but it will work. I usually do it later in the year, probably late September. If worried about compaction why not aerate then run cultipacker across then use a brillion seeder. I have also mixed orchard grass seed with fertilizer and broadcast on thinning alfalfa fields in late September. If moisture is good and rains follow it works sometimes.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob M said:


> JD, I have no-tilled into grass fields may times. Not the perfect way to seed but it will work. I usually do it later in the year, probably late September. If worried about compaction why not aerate then run cultipacker across then use a brillion seeder. I have also mixed orchard grass seed with fertilizer and broadcast on thinning alfalfa fields in late September. If moisture is good and rains follow it works sometimes.


That's kind of what I meant, but didnt think of cultipacker brillion seeder. 
Would it work with Timothy? I seem to have a lot of buyers who want it.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I like endrow's method best. You'll at least stunt the existing grass a little if you can cut it down into its growth points.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

There was a guy who posted on here quite a bit, and one time he said that they had actually killed a couple of grass fields by mowing them extremely low. So if a guy would have scalped it when it was mowed, then the old grass might have gotten a pretty good stunting, and some of those plants would have died, which is what you want.

Rodney


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I have not had much luck interseeding orchard grass into an existing stand of grass......I have never tried with timothy but it may work better as it seems to be more vigorous in seedling stage than orchard grass. If your going to try I would take your cutting of hay off real low.....scalp the ground......then if you feel it needs aerated you can do that then no till the new grass. I think broadcasting the seed into an existing stand would be a waste of money.

Is there any reason they don't want you to spray roundup to kill off the existing grass and no till the new into the dead sod? Another thought is you could spray with paraquat which won't fully kill all the established grass but would really knock it back enough to give the new seedlings a chance to establish.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I really just want to interested Timothy into the existing stand. 
Sounds like its too risky for the labor and seed unless I kill everything and start over.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

If the grass is thin, there isn't as much competition for the new grass. If it thick, you don't need to interseed to begin with. Did you soil test it? What you think is compaction and low yield might be low PH.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

I have no tilled orchard grass into a thinning alfalfa/mixed grass field with partial success using a spike roller conservation seeder. I did scalp it with a flail mower first to stunt the existing growth. I then spread a heavy application of compost over the field before no tilling the o grass. The results were just OK. I got a fair amount of new orchard grass to emerge and help fill in the thinning spots, but, considering all the work it may be just as practical to burn off the existing growth in the spring and do it best with the Brillion seeder on a prepared bed.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, so what about just aerating the soil? 
Good idea if it hasn't been done in probably 10 years, right?


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

It might be worth a try to no till some timothy in as I think it would have a better chance than the orchard and timothy seed is cheap so you would not be out much if it didn't work.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

If lawns are plugged and overseeded, why wont it work for big fields?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> If lawns are plugged and overseeded, why wont it work for big fields?


Try it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Try it.


Got about 10 to 15 more days after that to late


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> Got about 10 to 15 more days after that to late


Unfortunately, I still have hay standing. Really a bad year. Very thin crop because of cold weather and lack of rain. Now it's humid and rainy.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Interseeding today


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Is that just closely mowed fields? Looks like they weren't sprayed with roundup. 
Would love to be able to do that. 
I do have 1 field I got 2nd cutting off of. 
Should I mow it down close and try to drill Tim into it????


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Is that just closely mowed fields? Looks like they weren't sprayed with roundup.
> Would love to be able to do that.
> I do have 1 field I got 2nd cutting off of.
> Should I mow it down close and try to drill Tim into it????


Yes mowed last week with NH discbine cutter bar tilted front in lowest hole 3 to 4 mph . The grass will not come back too strong at this point been beefing up my old grass fields a little bit at a time each year . Sometime works good some times it does not depends a lot on the weather . I sow 10# alfalfa, 5#Tekapo Orchard grass and 50# Jerry Forage Oats . Cut And wrap the oats after killing frost. Not to short the long oats stubble will provide some protection for the seedlings over winter .


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Last thought: 
Mow fields low right now in fall. Apply seed to scalped or low cut ground. Apply 1" of mushroom compost over seed. 
Would that work?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Sure.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Last thought:
> Mow fields low right now in fall. Apply seed to scalped or low cut ground. Apply 1" of mushroom compost over seed.
> Would that work?


 Most grass seed doesn't need to be covered more than 1/2 inch deep. I would still say that would you be better off renting a no till drill to plant the seed than broadcasting it. But it might be too late in your area to plant grass.....I'm just now getting my timothy planted and even for here it is just about too late.....wanted to have it done by the end of October but that didn't happen. We don't get extended periods of freezing weather for more than a couple days most of the time so I should be okay.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

It's too late for fall planting in pennsylvania UNLESS it's so late that it won't germinate until spring. Then it could work.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> It's too late for fall planting in pennsylvania UNLESS it's so late that it won't germinate until spring. Then it could work.


Good chance the seed would rot during our wonderful wet cold weather


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I should have been more clear: mow late this fall, then in february, when fields are frozen and mushroom compost is typically applied apply seed then compost.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

That would work here JD....covering the seed just a little does make a tremendous difference. And at that time of year it would not have to lay too many weeks before it got warm enough to germinate.

End of February HERE is the start of the germination time...I know your part of the country is at least a month behind....maybe 6 weeks behind....dependant upon your winter.

I would seed heavily.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I think this trick is for late summer only .You are comparing this to Not using herbicides and then Mowing low end of Aug and interseeding into a thin stand,.In .September and October the new seedings would have little competition from the existing stand. I not sure about next spring, to much competition for new seeding without strong burndown herbicide. Question mushroom soil use ,all natural vegetable growers use it to choke out small weeds. Seek help maybe someone in your area who has done tis in the past , seed is expensive


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes seed is expensive. Since I'm already doing mushroom compost, I figured the seed might be a chance worth taking. Really want to get some Timothy in my stands.
I talked to a farmer from central PA who did this and said it worked for him.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

You can try it. I'm sure it work better in fall, since the seeds would have already made a plant that would be ready to out compete other stuff that also wants to come up in spring.

Rodney


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

I think that would work. Maybe seed and compost later say April or so when stuff starts growing


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

endrow said:


> we are making the hay on some of these odd shape fields that we spruced up last summer with alfalfa and orchard grass and they are much more productive than they were
> Interseeding today


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

endrow said:


> Interseeding today


 this is the old post I did when we were reseeding late last summer


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Nice looking wagons endrow......what did you drill with?

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

endrow said:


> Interseeding today


 the reason I posted this if your page back just a little bit further through these posts- September 1st 2014 I have a picture of the exact field being planted


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I remember your drill now.....

Regards, Mike


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

What was the approximate date you no-till interseeded the A/O? Sept. 1st you say?

What do you believe your success rate % was?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I must seed after 2nd cutting. Need higher orchard grass content.


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