# Want to get started



## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

Hey guys, I'm a 15 year old boy who wants to get started in hay next summer. I have done hay before on the farm I currently work on and I really like it.bive been advised by my boss to start out doing only square bales. My family has about 20 acres of land we just bought that was used for hay, but I don't know how much of that I will be able to use because I have several horses and my little siblings have ponies and such, and they will need pasture. However, my boss says he knows people that would let me do hay for free on there land just so they don't have to mow it. I will probably start out using a Kubota m6800 2wd, a Kubota disc mower, a old 2 basket or a old 4 basket tedder, a old NH rake. I have been advised to take out a loan and get a nice square baler instead of borrowing a old 273. I've been researching and I really like the mf 1840 inlines. The hay I will be cutting will be mostly fescue. Any suggestions/advice/comments?


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jwilkerson said:


> Hey guys, I'm a 15 year old boy who wants to get started in hay next summer. I have done hay before on the farm I currently work on and I really like it.bive been advised by my boss to start out doing only square bales. My family has about 20 acres of land we just bought that was used for hay, but I don't know how much of that I will be able to use because I have several horses and my little siblings have ponies and such, and they will need pasture. However, my boss says he knows people that would let me do hay for free on there land just so they don't have to mow it. I will probably start out using a Kubota m6800 2wd, a Kubota disc mower, a old 2 basket or a old 4 basket tedder, a old NH rake. I have been advised to take out a loan and get a nice square baler instead of borrowing a old 273. I've been researching and I really like the mf 1840 inlines. The hay I will be cutting will be mostly fescue. Any suggestions/advice/comments?


Welcome to HayTalk! You're starting off better than most with your equipment, the 1840 is a great baler and your m6800 ought to be able to handle it, you won't have too much power in reserve, but it will do the job. I don't know if the kubota mower has a conditioner or not and what type of rake yours is, but if you don't have a conditioner get one when you can and if the rake is not a rotary also get one when you can, these will make a big difference in the quality and dry down time.


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

Thanks! Glad to be here. The mower is a 3pt disc mower, obviously no conditioner there, but I love using it, it cuts great. The rake is just a old nh parallel bar type, not the fastest but practically indestructible...it's my bosses and it's beat all to pieces but it still takes just fine. I have a couple questions for anybody that would care to answer. First, I would be starting from scratch. Little to no cash bc I have foolishly tied up money in horses (aka endless moneypits) and I will probably spend about all my summer earnings to get a truck that can handle hay equip. The only thing that would be mine would be the baler (which I would have to finance). Every other piece of equipment would be borrowed from my boss. I would have to work out a deal with him, like baling his field for free or something. So what should be my priority equipment wise? I was told that I would be better off with a new baler, not having the know how to make money with a old one. Also are there any online courses about soil management or something like that that would help me to know a little about spraying/fertilizing/lime? Thanks!


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

Als


Jwilkerson said:


> Hey guys, I'm a 15 year old boy who wants to get started in hay next summer. I have done hay before on the farm I currently work on and I really like it.bive been advised by my boss to start out doing only square bales. My family has about 20 acres of land we just bought that was used for hay, but I don't know how much of that I will be able to use because I have several horses and my little siblings have ponies and such, and they will need pasture. However, my boss says he knows people that would let me do hay for free on there land just so they don't have to mow it. I will probably start out using a Kubota m6800 2wd, a Kubota disc mower, a old 2 basket or a old 4 basket tedder, a old NH rake. I have been advised to take out a loan and get a nice square baler instead of borrowing a old 273. I've been researching and I really like the mf 1840 inlines. The hay I will be cutting will be mostly fescue. Any suggestions/advice/comments?


Also I am located in the foothills of NC if that helps


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## Markpnw (Dec 27, 2019)

You’re doing great. I personally wouldn’t pull a loan quite yet because with inflation prices of equipment is outrageous.


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## MTB98 (Feb 13, 2021)

I’d avoid a loan if at all possible. How much hay do you need to put up and sell to pay for just the baler? You need to be careful you don’t end up baling hay to pay for equipment and expenses with nothing left for your time. 
Good luck to you though- sounds like you have ambition which is priceless!


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

Thanks for your advice! I dislike getting a loan as well, but I believe that it could be privately sourced. As far as profit goes, I will also be working part time on my bosses farm-im ok with having little to no profit at least for the first year if that's what it takes to get started. Do you have any ideas of how many acres of poor to middling fescue mix hay I would need to cover the costs of diesel and my other expenses? Up here hay is generally poorer that other areas of NC.


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## MTB98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Jwilkerson said:


> im ok with having little to no profit at least for the first year if that's what it takes to get started. Do you have any ideas of how many acres of poor to middling fescue mix hay I would need to cover the costs of diesel and my other expenses? Up here hay is generally poorer that other areas of NC.


You didn’t say what your budget is for a baler, if it’s new or close to new cost you will be baling for “free” for more than a year.
What price can you sell your hay? That will determine how many bales you need to sell to cover costs. Then you’ll need to calculate bales per acre for your ground. 
For example, your operating costs you calculate will be $5,000. At $5/bale that puts you at needing 1,000 bales to cover costs. 100 bales/acre divided into 1,000 bales equals 10 acres of hay ground.


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

MTB98 said:


> You didn’t say what your budget is for a baler, if it’s new or close to new cost you will be baling for “free” for more than a year.
> What price can you sell your hay? That will determine how many bales you need to sell to cover costs. Then you’ll need to calculate bales per acre for your ground.
> For example, your operating costs you calculate will be $5,000. At $5/bale that puts you at needing 1,000 bales to cover costs. 100 bales/acre divided into 1,000 bales equals 10 acres of hay ground.


I have been thinking about whether I should try to cheap out with a crappy baler and then upgrade or take out a 20-25k loan and find a lightly used mf 1840. The thing is, in order for me to make a deal with my boss for using his equipment, I would need to have a baler nicer than his old nh hayliner in order for it to be worth it for me to bale his hay. Hay prices up here are pretty good right now, crappy cow hay is selling for 5 a bale and nicer horse hay for 7 to 10 a bale.


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## MTB98 (Feb 13, 2021)

Jwilkerson said:


> I have been thinking about whether I should try to cheap out with a crappy baler and then upgrade or take out a 20-25k loan and find a lightly used mf 1840. The thing is, in order for me to make a deal with my boss for using his equipment, I would need to have a baler nicer than his old nh hayliner in order for it to be worth it for me to bale his hay. Hay prices up here are pretty good right now, crappy cow hay is selling for 5 a bale and nicer horse hay for 7 to 10 a bale.


Without some investment on the input side of growing hay you’ll be making $5 cow hay correct? That’s 4,000+ bales to cover a baler not including all the other expenses involved. 100 bales/acre works out to 40 acres of hay ground needed to net you $20,000. 
I’m not trying to talk you out of it, just want you putting some numbers into it to help with your decision making. An old baler makes the same bales as a new one although maybe a little faster.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jwilkerson said:


> I have been thinking about whether I should try to cheap out with a crappy baler and then upgrade or take out a 20-25k loan and find a lightly used mf 1840. The thing is, in order for me to make a deal with my boss for using his equipment, I would need to have a baler nicer than his old nh hayliner in order for it to be worth it for me to bale his hay. Hay prices up here are pretty good right now, crappy cow hay is selling for 5 a bale and nicer horse hay for 7 to 10 a bale.


IF planning to sell in my experience nothing is more costly than using decrepit equipment! If for own use OK, but if you want to sell and get top $$ you need good equipment, not saying new, used but current is fine for this equipment will let you hay faster, produce better hay within a shorter window. Most buyers buy 1st with their eyes, then with their nose so a good looking bale that smell nice & fresh will sell quickly and for a good price. You also have to consider your competition, what do they sell their hay for, the equipment they use how/where will you be on a scale if competing with them. IMO you're off to a good start with equipment and better pieces can be added as you progress, but don't forget the eye candy factor.


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

I would definitely be doing mostly cow hay for the first year. There is a chance that I could do about 10 acres of horse quality hay for say 7 a bale. My goal is to get into the high-quality horse hay market, because #1, I thinks that it's more profitable, and #2, there aren't many, if any, people doing it in my area. There is a extremely exclusive country club in my area who have expensive horses. My boss knows the manager and I might be able to get a contract for horse hay.


MTB98 said:


> Without some investment on the input side of growing hay you’ll be making $5 cow hay correct? That’s 4,000+ bales to cover a baler not including all the other expenses involved. 100 bales/acre works out to 40 acres of hay ground needed to net you $20,000.
> I’m not trying to talk you out of it, just want you putting some numbers into it to help with your decision making. An old baler makes the same bales as a new one although maybe a little faster.


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## Jwilkerson (6 mo ago)

Trillium Farm said:


> IF planning to sell in my experience nothing is more costly than using decrepit equipment! If for own use OK, but if you want to sell and get top $$ you need good equipment, not saying new, used but current is fine for this equipment will let you hay faster, produce better hay within a shorter window. Most buyers buy 1st with their eyes, then with their nose so a good looking bale that smell nice & fresh will sell quickly and for a good price. You also have to consider your competition, what do they sell their hay for, the equipment they use how/where will you be on a scale if competing with them. IMO you're off to a good start with equipment and better pieces can be added as you progress, but don't forget the eye candy factor.


That's exactly what my boss said. I have to have something about my business that "stands out from the crowd". Most of the hay people around here make it first for their own cows, and then sell the extra. Old NH square balers are king where I'm at. The rich farmers don't even fool with squares; they just have the krone roundbalers and other fancy equipment for their cows. There isn't a single inline that I'm aware of in my area. Getting something a cut above the rest would definitely help my market. At least that what I think.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Talking with a friend recently a new baler is over $30,000. And a new baler still has a learning curve. Find calico190xt posts about his new used baler, he got from a dealer, he had problems at first but with help of his dealer he learned alot and had more confidence in his baler. You could find a good used baler in the $10,000 range. Just have to give yourself time to look and not be on a deadline to get a baler and if you can't find something close widen out you area to look.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Baling with an inline isn’t going to make your hay any better or more marketable than something baled with a 273. Most people won’t even know or care what it’s baled with.

I would start with a good mid-age used baler. I use an 80’s vintage New Holland 311 which is a very capable and good baler in nice shape. You can find something like that between $4-6k. I definitely would not make the investment in a new baler until you got your operation going and know what your limitations are.

Besides, if you’re saying you’d be one of the only in your area running that in-line then you’re probably not going to have a lot of experienced help or service nearby for it. Access to repairs and service centers (dealerships) is something you really need to consider.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

In order to make a nice bale, you have to understand the baler and how to rake. It does not require a new baler or newish baler. Immerse yourself in posts about baling and all of the ones where people are making poor bales and can’t seem to figure out why. This will give you a head start on avoiding those common issues. (Because it’s almost always common issues!) 
I would trend slightly newer than Josh as to what you should aim for if the goal is to appease your boss but still be cheaper than $25,000, but in principle I totally agree. Don’t blow so much on a baler. It won’t help anything.


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## Edd in KY (Jul 16, 2009)

Being young, I guess you have more time than money. That's what we used to call sweat equity. You have more hours of work in your body, than dollars of cash in your pocket. A new inline baler will not make a bale that is anymore valuable to the customer. The bales coming out of that old 273 are just as valuable, as the bales coming out of a brand new $30,000 baler. 
The key is baler reliability. My old NH276...made 400 bales this past week, with only 3 miss-ties. You can buy a similar baler in good condition for less than $3000. I think you will be limited by the number of acres you can find to bale within a few miles of your home. Driving 15 miles to bale a few acres is not efficient. Frankly, when I was your age I cobbled together a few pieces of old but reliable equipment and made due for the few years before I went off to college.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

Used 276, 315, and 570, all really good balers, good bales, good output.


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## Cowboyfarmer (7 mo ago)

Jwilkerson said:


> Thanks! Glad to be here. The mower is a 3pt disc mower, obviously no conditioner there, but I love using it, it cuts great. The rake is just a old nh parallel bar type, not the fastest but practically indestructible...it's my bosses and it's beat all to pieces but it still takes just fine. I have a couple questions for anybody that would care to answer. First, I would be starting from scratch. Little to no cash bc I have foolishly tied up money in horses (aka endless moneypits) and I will probably spend about all my summer earnings to get a truck that can handle hay equip. The only thing that would be mine would be the baler (which I would have to finance). Every other piece of equipment would be borrowed from my boss. I would have to work out a deal with him, like baling his field for free or something. So what should be my priority equipment wise? I was told that I would be better off with a new baler, not having the know how to make money with a old one. Also are there any online courses about soil management or something like that that would help me to know a little about spraying/fertilizing/lime? Thanks!


Glad to see a young man hustling to make a buck ! About the soil management if you have time listen to the daily podcast called ag phd Brian and Darin hefty are agronomist they speak about all that and even some other farming info . They don’t talk about hay production much they are corn and bean guys but you can learn a lot about soil management from their show …


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

About thirty years ago, I bought an old NH 276 with the intention of using it for a couple of years and then upgrade to a newer baler. I never did upgrade. That old baler would run like the Energizer Bunny, just kept going and going and going. Granted, I was a small timer, less than 3000 bales / year.

I would say to a new hay farmer, concentrate on your market. It's going to take at least a couple of years for you to establish yourself and build a customer base. I think talking about taking out a loan for newer equipment is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Something else I'll add, is the biggest challenge you're going to face is the learning curve. Especially with square balers. In my beginning days I remember being so worried that something would go wrong with my baler in the field because if it did, I was pretty much stuck. And indeed there were a few times when I was, even though it was something I now know to be easily repairable. I'm glad those days are long past me, but even a new machine won't help that learning curve. In fact, it will only make the learning curve more expensive if you break a new machine because you don't have everything figured out yet. Cut your teeth on older equipment (80's-90's vintage in GOOD condition (repainted doesn't make it good condition)), and you'll be in for it for a lot less money, still have reliable equipment, and may find you never need to get something different.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Case in point: There are two active threads currently in which somebody has a brand new baler and it's not tying right.


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