# 911 Need help quickly on NH 7230



## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Ok, thanks for reading first of all. I just bought a brand new NH 7230 with rubber rollers to get away from impellars. Traded a JD 926 with impellars, etc. Cut about 30 acres of grass (fescue) with the 7230 and it did fine. No problems. Now, Friday i went into 15 acres of textbook clean, 4th cutting Roundup Ready alfalfa, which is why i bought the new machine in the first place. Tilted all the way forward, knives still have new paint on them, the machine would NOT cut the crop. Rode over probably 40-50% of the plants. Just plain old wouldnt cut the crop. I tried everything I could, adjusted cutterbar float, checked for skid shoe problems, made sure tilt cylinder was going full stroke. Nothing helped. Called the dealer and they were baffled more than me. The crop was not logded, and was to the top of the curtain on the machine. Smooth ground, and not wet. I mean this was textbook hay cutting, perfect weather and all. Dealer suggested lowering rpms and trying different ground speeds and etc. Said air was blowing crop over before cutting. Nothing mattered. I got my other cutter, (kuhn FC 313 with impellars) out and it cut like its supposed to. I didnt want to use it because of the impellars, but had to since the 7230 wouldnt cut it. MY 6 year old son, even asked why i didnt cut the hay on the rounds i made with the 7230. Dealer said the specific crop condition caused it, blah blah blah. I took it back Saturday and told them to fix it and prove to me it would cut alfalfa on someones else's farm, or else. Pics of field are posted below. I have never been so disappointed in my life with a new piece of equipment.

Any experiences or advice is appreciated.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Looking at the pictures I would question you if you did indeed have the head tilted all the way forward. Not judging this by the alfalfa stems left but by the the weed in the second picture. The head is tilted all the way forward when the cylinder pin is out of the cylinder and stored in the hole under the cylinder. Another possibility is you are not holding the remote long enough for the tilt cylinder to pull all the way out.

As for the impeller vs roll difference, your dealer is right in that rolls generate turbulance under the hood and can blow the crop down. An impeller machine does not generate this and has more of a suction pull on the crop.

We do not have much alfalfa left in our area, but what I have seen is even though the crop is standing tall it is still running along the ground some. If this were the case in your field then the mower should have cleaned it up when the mower was going in to it.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

make sure the right blades are on the right discs. ccw versus cw.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

4th cutting looks like it was blowing it down to me . I have 1431 and in some later cuttings where there is just mostly alfalfa it will blow it down where there is not much growth . I have to slow the RPMs down to where the mower is running a about 750 to 850 RPMs .

Just my 2 cents worth .


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Another thought. Did you or your dealer adjust the header floatation when you got your machine? If not, on level ground, swing the tongue all the way out and let the head down on the ground and check how much weight is being carried on each end of the cutterbar. Usually about a hundred pounds of lift force on each end of the cutterbar is sufficient to keep the head on the ground If it is too light the head will float over the crop.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

mike10 said:


> Looking at the pictures I would question you if you did indeed have the head tilted all the way forward. Not judging this by the alfalfa stems left but by the the weed in the second picture. The head is tilted all the way forward when the cylinder pin is out of the cylinder and stored in the hole under the cylinder. Another possibility is you are not holding the remote long enough for the tilt cylinder to pull all the way out.
> 
> As for the impeller vs roll difference, your dealer is right in that rolls generate turbulance under the hood and can blow the crop down. An impeller machine does not generate this and has more of a suction pull on the crop.
> 
> ...


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Adjusted cutterbar flotation per procedure in the book. Seems ok to us, but dealer didnt setup in field. We loosed up float and tried again, no change. There was plenty of down force on the bar.


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## wnydairyman (Sep 16, 2013)

Having similar problem with JD 630 discbine with impellers. Trying to mow sorghum sudan grass about 4 ft tall. It seems to accumulate on cutterbar, get chewed up the comes out in a lump. Any suggestions?


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Chessiedog said:


> 4th cutting looks like it was blowing it down to me . I have 1431 and in some later cuttings where there is just mostly alfalfa it will blow it down where there is not much growth . I have to slow the RPMs down to where the mower is running a about 750 to 850 RPMs .
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth .


I tried every know RPM setting and ground speed, with no change. This was my thought also.

THx!


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

wnydairyman said:


> Having similar problem with JD 630 discbine with impellers. Trying to mow sorghum sudan grass about 4 ft tall. It seems to accumulate on cutterbar, get chewed up the comes out in a lump. Any suggestions?


I had a 926 with impellars, the long type grasses get wrapped around the impellars and sort of "choke" up the whole flow of crop. Seen it many times on my 926. Its my understanding, the rollers are better for long stem crops, such as sudan, etc.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Check these things:

1) There is a pin on the hydraulic cylinder that tilts the cutter bar. It has 3 positions, High, middle and low. Check which hole it is in.

2) Check if you have grass shoes (high stubble kit) installed. They will give you between 3.5 to 5.5" of stubble.

3) Check the type blades you have installed. There are 3 types (I believe) 7 Degree, 15 degree and concave. Each type give a different amount of crop lift.

4) Check the floatation springs--too much tension may be keeping the head from lowering all the way.

5) Check the roller clearance and pressure. It may be too tight, preventing the crop from clearing the rollers.

My guess is that the dealer setup mechanic made a mistake somewhere.

Ralph


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## wnydairyman (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks for your input KYBRONCO. Sorry for butting in on your question. New to this and didn't know how else to get my question on. Good luck.


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## wnydairyman (Sep 16, 2013)

KYBRONCO, when you say the crop wraps around the impellers, do you mean it stays wraped around or wraps around and throws back onto cutterbar? When I get off and look, impeller is clean but crop is piled up on cutterbar. Also causes machine to leave long ragged stubble.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

It looks to me like the discs are not turning fast enough... Is it a 1000 rpm machine or 540?


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

krone.1 said:


> It looks to me like the discs are not turning fast enough... Is it a 1000 rpm machine or 540?


+1! I was looking thinking it was typical blow down, but if you look closely, it looks like the stems are being pushed over with the blades. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's a 1000rpm mower running at 540 or less.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

wnydairyman said:


> KYBRONCO, when you say the crop wraps around the impellers, do you mean it stays wraped around or wraps around and throws back onto cutterbar? When I get off and look, impeller is clean but crop is piled up on cutterbar. Also causes machine to leave long ragged stubble.


yes, that is what i have observed also


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

krone.1 said:


> It looks to me like the discs are not turning fast enough... Is it a 1000 rpm machine or 540?





askinner said:


> +1! I was looking thinking it was typical blow down, but if you look closely, it looks like the stems are being pushed over with the blades. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's a 1000rpm mower running at 540 or less.


I HAVE EXPRESSED THIS IDEA TO DEALER ALSO. I AM RUNNING 540 TRACTOR. GEARBOX APPEARS TO BE 540, BUT I AM TOLD THAT IT CAN BE FLIPPED OVER AND MADE 1000 RPM MACHINE. DONT KNOW SPECIFICS ANY FURTHER THAN THAT. HOPEFULLY DEALER WILL CHECK IT OUT. I RAN IT WITH CURTAIN OPEN (REALLY HARD TO SEE AND DANGEROUS), AND COULDNT TELL MUCH. ALOT OF CROP GETTING SLUNG AROUND UNDER THERE.

THX!


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

wnydairyman said:


> KYBRONCO, when you say the crop wraps around the impellers, do you mean it stays wraped around or wraps around and throws back onto cutterbar? When I get off and look, impeller is clean but crop is piled up on cutterbar. Also causes machine to leave long ragged stubble.


Try installing lifters.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

Is the machine at the dealer or at your farm? A quick way to check would be to make a mark the main PTO shaft and turn one revolution and count the disc revolutions. Should be about 5 1/2 disc revolutions to each pto revolution on 540.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You can not get a 1000 rpm and 540 mixed up because the splines on the gearbox are different for each speed. The 540 uses a 21 spline setup at the gearbox and the 1000 uses a 6 spline setup at the gearbox.

The only other item I can think of for the high stubble is if you have an unusually high tractor drawbar.

When you were checking the floatation springs would the head go down fully after you manually raised it or did you have to help push it down? Sometimes the pivot bushing in the main frame partially seizes and when you raise the head by hand it will take some effort but when you release the head the head will not fully go to the ground. Judging from your pictures it just does not appear the head is going all the way down. It is one thing to have a ragged stubble in a crop like alfalfa but when you see the other plants in the picture not even cut it puts into question if the head is fully on the ground.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have same disc mower and mine is only 5 mos old. 
It will blow over thin, light crop and it won't cut where tires have ridden over uncut crop. 
Where crop is thin/light, I double over it in reverse direction. Not what I like to do, but leaving uncut crop bothers me.
That being said, there's no way your properly set up 7230 disc mower shouldn't cut alfalfa perfectly.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

If you have standard blades is the grind bevel on top or bottom? When we received our used Kuhn FC 243 RTG it had the blades on right but they had the grind bevel down. To me that's like grinding the bottom side of a lawnmower blade. I've read that by putting the bevel down you get less rock damage to the blades but I'd rather have all the lift you can get.

OT: To me a set blades cost about as much as one good round bale of hay, so the way I see it keep sharp blades on them.

When y'all say crop is or isn't lodged what does that mean?

Also discbinedr what are "lifters"?

When we were setting up the Kuhn it had way too much head pressure and was leaving behind similar amounts as KYBronco's mower is leaving behind but he said he checked that so that shouldn't be the problem. Seems to me if on put too much head pressure on a disc mower it may also change the cutting angle and height. It appears to me that basically the cutting height on the Kuhn's is controlled by changing the cutterbar angle and nothing more.

As far as crop wrapping around impellers that's what a guy was telling us just last week when we were looking at an impeller machine. We told him that sometimes our Oats hay gets close 5' high when it's time to cut and he said he's seen instances where they had crop wrapping happening with crops that high as the impellers act like a big vacuum and pull the crop into them before it's cut.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

mike10 said:


> You can not get a 1000 rpm and 540 mixed up because the splines on the gearbox are different for each speed. The 540 uses a 21 spline setup and the 1000 uses a 6 spline setup.
> 
> The only other item I can think of for the high stubble is if you have an unusually high tractor drawbar.
> 
> When you were checking the floatation springs would the head go down fully after you manually raised it or did you have to help push it down? Sometimes the pivot bushing in the main frame partially seizes and when you raise the head by hand it will take some effort but when you release the head the head will not fully go to the ground. Judging from your pictures it just does not appear the head is going all the way down. It is one thing to have a ragged stubble in a crop like alfalfa but when you see the other plants in the picture not even cut it puts into question if the head is fully on the ground.


Mike are you sure that's not backwards on the number of splines? Everything here is 540 and 6 splines.

The Maxxum here will do 1000 but you have turn shaft around.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> Mike are you sure that's not backwards on the number of splines? Everything here is 540 and 6 splines.
> 
> The Maxxum here will do 1000 but you have turn shaft around.


I am referring to the gear box shaft end, not the tractor end.

The NH knives are made so the bevel is up at all times.

The lifters are bolted to the discs and help lift the crop into the conditioning rolls.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Just how far are you lowering your RPM's? My tractor PTO speed is 2200, when cutting thin or short later cuttings with my 1431 I sometimes run as slow as 1600 RPM on the tach.

Double check and make sure it's actually going all the way down. The neighbor had a similar problem with his 1431 when it was brand new, came within an inch or two of the skid shoes being on the ground, and sometimes one side would hang up and not go down at all.

I had some crop so light in a few spots after mowing you could barely see the rows, even after raking 4 rows together it barely made a row that was easily visible so I had some very short light crop but it cut reasonably clean.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Just how far are you lowering your RPM's? My tractor PTO speed is 2200, when cutting thin or short later cuttings with my 1431 I sometimes run as slow as 1600 RPM on the tach.
> 
> Double check and make sure it's actually going all the way down. The neighbor had a similar problem with his 1431 when it was brand new, came within an inch or two of the skid shoes being on the ground, and sometimes one side would hang up and not go down at all.
> 
> I had some crop so light in a few spots after mowing you could barely see the rows, even after raking 4 rows together it barely made a row that was easily visible so I had some very short light crop but it cut reasonably clean.


I tried all rpm ranges, and gear ranges. Skid shoes are lowest ones available.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

mike10 said:


> I am referring to the gear box shaft end, not the tractor end.
> 
> The NH knives are made so the bevel is up at all times.
> 
> The lifters are bolted to the discs and help lift the crop into the conditioning rolls.


Ok I gotcha on the PTO shafts.

Kuhn knives can be installed with the bevel up or down and still have lift on the back edge of the blade.

I wasn't aware of the lifter attachments. Thanks.

Also I Googled Lodged crop, I see it just downed crop.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

I don't think that too low rpm's is the problem. In light crop I think that would be nearly impossible. It would be simple to check the cutting height if you took the machine into the field and cut a bit and then shut everything down when you are in mowing position . You could then check and see where you were at. Too high ground speed in rough ground could cause the cutterbar to bounce and make skippers as well. As JD observed, a new 7230 should do a great job in average alfalfa.


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## brandenburgcattle42 (Sep 6, 2012)

I have this mower and this problem its 100% you slow it down mine is a 540 and in light stuff I run 425-450 and cuts perfect. Problem solved!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Disc mowers want to do the opposite of what you would think. In high crop, they want to be run FAST. I usually mow at ~7-8mph for best results in MY crops. 
I remember making a post similar to yours when I first got my 7230. Terrible results, lots of blown over crop. Turns out I was driving way too slow...."babying" the discbine. 
When crop is extra thin like yours, as said above, reduce RPM to reduce the discs acting like fans and blowing the crop over.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

KYBRONCO said:


> I tried all rpm ranges, and gear ranges. Skid shoes are lowest ones available.


I never run in a slower gear in light crops, just reduce PTO rpm. I normally cut in 5th OVER with my White at 2200 rpm which in good crops gives me around 11mph, In light crops I reduce throttle but still use the same gear.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

It may have been mentioned an I didn't catch it. They do offer different blade twist angles, flatter twist, less suction.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Of blades, I always run the steeper ones. It's the turtles and rollers that create the turbulence under the hood and the steeper blades give more lift in a down crop.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

mike10 said:


> You can not get a 1000 rpm and 540 mixed up because the splines on the gearbox are different for each speed. The 540 uses a 21 spline setup at the gearbox and the 1000 uses a 6 spline setup at the gearbox.
> 
> The only other item I can think of for the high stubble is if you have an unusually high tractor drawbar.
> 
> When you were checking the floatation springs would the head go down fully after you manually raised it or did you have to help push it down? Sometimes the pivot bushing in the main frame partially seizes and when you raise the head by hand it will take some effort but when you release the head the head will not fully go to the ground. Judging from your pictures it just does not appear the head is going all the way down. It is one thing to have a ragged stubble in a crop like alfalfa but when you see the other plants in the picture not even cut it puts into question if the head is fully on the ground.


Just a SWAG but do you have a 1000 RPM gearbox but a 540 tractor end PTO shaft. If they are interchangeable.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

OK GUYS, THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES. JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE DEALER, AND TO SAY THE LEAST, I HAD TO CONTROL MYSELF. AFTER RIDICULING MY ALFALFA CROP, HE KEPT STATING THAT THE MACHINE WAS BLOWING DOWN MY "INFERIOR" ALFALFA. I WAS LIVID AND TOLD HIM I DIDNT APPRECIATE HIS COMMENTS. HE STATED THAT THE LIFTERS ON EACH DISC WERE CREATING TOO MUCH AIR FLOW AND THEY NEEDED TO BE REMOVED IN A THIN CROP SITUATION. THEY HAVE THE MACHINE AND ARE GOING TO TEST IT IN SOME ALFALFA LATER THIS WEEK. I HOPE THEY ARE RIGHT AND CAN FIND THE PROBLEM. I HAD THEM CHECK MOST ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS MENTIONED. OBVIOUSLY, I HAVENT GOT TO CHECK THEM MYSELF SINCE I TOOK THE MACHINE BACK TO THEM SATURDAY. I WILL POST THE SOLUTION WHEN I FIND OUT.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

FCF said:


> Just a SWAG but do you have a 1000 RPM gearbox but a 540 tractor end PTO shaft. If they are interchangeable.


I ASKED THEM SATURDAY FOR SECOND VERIFICATION. MY TRACTOR IS 540, THE GEARBOX END OF THE PTO SHAFT IS SMALL SPLINE (1000). THEY STATED THIS WAS CORRECT SETUP. I COMPARED PICS IN THE MANUAL AND IT LOOKED CORRECT.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Personally I'd be there for the test they're going to run.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> Personally I'd be there for the test they're going to run.


 Me too. For as much as you know they could tell you that it did a good job even if it didnt just so they could blame it on your alfalfa crop because it sounds like that is what they are doing now. Who knows they might not even test it out in the field and tell you they did....remember never trust a dealer.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

KYBRONCO said:


> I ASKED THEM SATURDAY FOR SECOND VERIFICATION. MY TRACTOR IS 540, THE GEARBOX END OF THE PTO SHAFT IS SMALL SPLINE (1000). THEY STATED THIS WAS CORRECT SETUP. I COMPARED PICS IN THE MANUAL AND IT LOOKED CORRECT.


There is one thing you can eliminate as a cause and that is the gearbox/pto setup. When the 540 shaft is attached to the fine spline of the gearbox the rpm is geared up in the gearbox so the secondary drive shaft to the mower is running 1000 rpm. Since you were running the tractor at pto speed with a 540 shaft in the tractor, the maximum speed going to the machine, at rated pto speed, through the secondary drive shaft is still only 1000 rpm. If you had an older tractor that could run the 540 tractor shaft at either 540 or 1000 then it would have to be a tractor problem. I don't think the newer tractors you have, have this capability.

If the pto shaft had somehow been attached to the other gearbox shaft, coarse spline, the speed of the secondary drive shaft would be only 540 rpm since this shaft goes straight through the gearbox to the secondary drive shaft with no gearing involved. That is why the 1000 pto shaft is attached to the coarse spline of the gearbox so the secondary drive shaft runs the same speed as the primary drive shaft. That is the reason for the two different splines on the gearbox so you do not make a mistake and attach a 1000 pto shaft to the 540 shaft of the gearbox.

Reguardless, the only way, in your situation, for the secondary drive shaft to run faster than 1000 rpm, the correct speed, is if the tractor pto is turning faster than 540 rpm.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've never heard of removing the lifters, if so you'll need a stack of washers under the blade bolt or shorter bolts. Sounds like BS to me. I mowed some stuff that I could have easily done with my zero turn and it cut clean enough.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

mlappin said:


> I've never heard of removing the lifters, if so you'll need a stack of washers under the blade bolt or shorter bolts. Sounds like BS to me. I mowed some stuff that I could have easily done with my zero turn and it cut clean enough.


Ditto! I am also of the understanding the lifters are to lift the cut crop into the conditioner, if they weren't there, I'd imagine it'd plug?


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

I wonder if the crop would feed through the rollers without lifters. The only Mow Max cutterbars I've ever seen without lifters were flail machines or 3 point jobs.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> I wonder if the crop would feed through the rollers without lifters. The only Mow Max cutterbars I've ever seen without lifters were flail machines or 3 point jobs.


Actually the first year production of 1411's and probably the 1431's did not have lifters. There are still machines out there running without them. Lifters were added to aid in feeding material into the rollers. I can not see how removing them will help, but the only way to find out is try it. Bolts won't be an issue since the flail machines use shorter bolts.

I would go to the test mowing


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

askinner said:


> Ditto! I am also of the understanding the lifters are to lift the cut crop into the conditioner, if they weren't there, I'd imagine it'd plug?





discbinedr said:


> I wonder if the crop would feed through the rollers without lifters. The only Mow Max cutterbars I've ever seen without lifters were flail machines or 3 point jobs.


After my heated discussion with the owner, I expressed my concern for removing the lifters. He told me that it wouldnt affect how it would cut in thick hay, I dont know about this assumption on their part. he kept alluding to my crop being so thin, that it was blowing it down. Again, rpms were adjusted and no difference. BTW, his comment about the pics I sent them, was "there aint enough alfalfa in that field to feed a goat." I was [email protected]! The 8 acres field was baled today for the 4th time, it made 200, 70 lb bales. Pretty good for 4th cutting in my opinion. I have started a complaint case against the "stealer" because of his beligerant comments today. I am at a loss of what else i can do, other than observe the test field later this weekend.

Thx again guys!


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

I would make them bring machine to my farm and run it so that they couldn't say it's your thin crop.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Heres a solution nobody thought of and I have done it before. Go grab your jd machine and tell them to stick the new one up there tail. I bought a 100hp massey from my guys so we get it home and we were cultivating and I had the 62hp tractor dad had the 100hp. We hooked on same size cultivators and I did laps around him literally he unhooked it drove it straight there told them to shove it and took our old tractor back. Didnt take them long to make it right. Good luck


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

Which type of knives are on this discbine?


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

6125 said:


> Which type of knives are on this discbine?


I am not real versed with NH parts yet, but they appear to be standard blades.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Well we're waiting to hear what happened


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Still not tested!!! Been raining here finally and no one had hay to cut. Hopefully get it resolved this week. Not too hopeful though!!!!


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Testing the mower today at the local dealer, another farmer's field of alfalfa. IT WONT CUT his either!!!  Its leaving same amount of stubble and streaks as my "inferior crop." THey were studdering when they realized we were not as novice as they thought we were. They are removing the lifters or turtles, as we speak to see if that makes any difference. we will see what happens, more to come on this later....... :angry:


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

KY-I have been waiting to hear what happened. I have a 1409-not sure if your unit replaced it or the 1411 but I cut about 40 acres of second and third cutting with lower yields than you got @ 5mph and it cut clean as could be. All mixed grass. Tilted down max. You can't remove the turtles-aren't they the top shields or covers-I thought the lifters were the small wedges on top of the turtle tops. Sounds like the blades are cutting backwards almost but unless someone in the assembly line really was creative, I don't see a way to do that. you could have left handed blades on right handed turtles but I think you said that was already checked.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hayman1 said:


> Sounds like the blades are cutting backwards almost but unless someone in the assembly line really was creative, I don't see a way to do that. you could have left handed blades on right handed turtles but I think you said that was already checked.


I would agree---sounds like maybe the blades are on backwards. This is VERY easy to do on a 7230. I had a young man helping me put a new set of blades on my 7230 last spring. Until I got him into a pattern of replacing the blades one at a time and pointing the turtles in the same direction, he had about 1/2 of the blades going the wrong way.

There are left blades and right blades. The turtles rotate right-left-right-left....(get the idea) and the blades should be marked with an arrow for the direction of travel.

Ralph


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Okay guys, first of all, I hope I dont offend any NH supporters, but here is the latest on my saga. Stayed with the mechanic all day in an alfalfa field. Tried every adjustment known on the cutter and then some. Removed the lifters, made it worse. No adjustment helped the streaking. Varying rpm's and ground speed made no progress either. We checked rev's on disks (1 turn on shaft=5.5 on disk). Blades all correct. We must remember, the cutter did fine in fescue hay. Leaving too much streaking in pure alfalfa for me to accept the machine. Alfalfa is why i bought it in the first place. Two other farmers that own this type of machine came by and, stated theirs performed the same way and they just overlook it. One was bought this year and the other is similiar. This is unacceptable. everyone knows that the alfalfa must be cut close to the crown as possible. Anyways, dealer brought an old junky 1411 to the field from the lot and it did better compared to the new 7230, but still not to my standards. I am used to a deere or kuhn in the fields. I am trying not to be biased, but I mean the difference in the NH and deere is appalling! The mechanic said he was out of ideas and admitted the new machine would not cut alfalfa like it should. I then proceeded to discuss the situation calmly with the owner, who never made it out to the field to observe anything. Oh and by the way, after such a frustrating day, the mechanic admitted that everyone at the dealership was saying he got a free day to go play in the fields because we didnt know what we were doing and the machine was fine. Boy, they should got a rude awakening when it wouldnt perform. Now the owner was irate and very disrespectful to me, cursing and so on. After much heated discussion, I kept my temper and explained that I wanted a refund and I would take my old 926 back with no further problems. Even offered to pay them for the use on the 7230. Still havent received an answer on their side yet. I am afraid I am stuck with a machine that will not cut alfalfa closely. I have filed formal complaint with CNH corporate and that has done zero for me. They point blank said that it was up to the dealer to work the problem out. I have never been so disgusted in my life. I wish it were not the case. I do not know what else to say, I am burnt out on talking about this frustrating piece of equipment.

Thx for support guys.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

My 7450 mows like a lawn mower, but in light, thin alfalfa we speed up to 11 mph and drop rpms to 900. Mow at 1000 and 8 mph and it will streak bad. Had a 1431 previously that cut terrible when it was new. NH engineer finally figured out segment bolts in cutter bar were loose and bar was bent. Warranty replaced cutter bar and mowed like a charm after that.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

(I kept my temper) I commend you for that sir.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

There is no doubt dealers can talk rubbish (polite name for what it really is) and NH claim their 7230 can cut in tough conditions so here is their test. From your thumbnails the conditions don't look to be tough to me.

I have a 1411, I cannot see any real difference from the NH website in the machines so here goes.

On standard skid shoes a cutting height of 1 1/4 inches to 3 inches is achievable with a tractor draw bar height of about 18 inches or a bit more. To set the lower height remove the tilt limiter pin and store it so yu don't lose it in the hole located centrally below the slot in the channel that sits over the tilt cylinder.

You can observe the tilt action of the machine. Get in the tractor. run the tractor but not PTO and raise the machine on the hydraulics to full transport position for the machine. Then lower the machine until it will not go any further down. Ten just touch the hydraulic lift and you should be able to observe the machine tilt up before it starts to lift the whole machine. I liken it to the nose of Concorde airplane flicking up. If it does't do that there is a tilt problem. Lower the machine right down, turn off tractor (SAFETY FIRST), open curtain at front and lift lid. Measure height of knife path off the ground/floor, if not about 1 1/4 inch then you have confirmed tilt problem.

Many have commented on the step up gearbox

If your tractor is 540 pto then the step up gearbox which is hidden in the sep up portion of the machine draw bar (you may have to remove some safety shields to get a good look) the input shaft (lower shaft)shuold have the pto from tractor attached and the upper shaft should be a 6 spline shaft and bare.

Conversely if a 1000rpm tractor pto then the step up gearbox should be up the other way ie the upper shaft bare and multi-splined standard 1000 rpm shaft. Do not count on your shaft being reversible because some one may have changed one of the pto shaft (between tractor and machine) ends. Some tractors have a particular shaft with say 6 splines with selectable pto speeds, without the need to change the tractor shaft. Another way to assess which way up the step up gearbox is, is if set up for a 540 tractor there is a square topped filler plug at the front of the box on the cutter bar side of the box. If set up for a 1000 rpm pto the drainage is by removing the now bottom plate.

I had no luck with my step up gearbox as it ran very hot if used behind a 540 tractor.

Check the cutter bar modules have been set up the right way round.

With the lid up still, turn the machine by hand making sure all hands are clear and making sure direction of rotation is the same as the tractor's pto.

The first module if viewed from the top should rotate in a clockwise direction ie the knife tip at the front should sweep toward the centre of the machine.

I do not see how that could be wrong in assembly.

Then check that the leading edge of the knife is lower than the trailing edge, that ensures the right knife is fitted to the module. That is something that can be mis-assembled.

Then check that the croplifters are fitted so their leading edge is the start of the wedge shape, the trailing edge is the fat drop-off section followed by its two attaching bolts.

Each module across the machine should be the opposite of the previous one ie each is contra rotating such that the leading edge of knife and crop lifter is the opposite.

From your pics there is untidy or long stubble. Causes of this are :

1 Lodged material such that the stalks lie on the ground under the knife path.

2 blunt or damaged knives. If bent up in a light crop they will blow down the stalks and not cut them.

3 Driving too fast. I have never found this a problem. the knife tips at the rated machine speed are doing nearly 200mph. Thats whistling! I have mowed a yhin oat crop (only about 40 small bales per acre0 at 15 mph on level river flats with the mown material coming out the back like a speedboat rooster tail. Mowed area clean as a whistle.

4 Machine not lowering properly because the links at the wheel arms are frozen. Should show up in the cutting height measurement outlined above.

5 the machine has too much flotation. NH flotation is about 100lb lift needed at each end of cutter bar, more for higher speeds/rough ground. I do not subscribe to their theory because I have many rocks and set flotation very light so if an object is encountered cutter bar can get out of the way easily. I tilt machine down but set flotation so skid plates and therefore rock guards are JUST clear of the ground. Saves wear on the normally ground engaging surfaces. But whatever floats your boat. Experiment and try different things,. NOTE loosen off the flotation adjusting bolts at end of each season so springs do not develop a stretched memory. Also store machine raised with locks on BUT protect exposed lift hydraulic ram shafts from corrosion.

6 Machine set too high. Overcome in procedure outlined above.

7 Discs set up incorrectly in total or for knives. Solution above.

8 Machine too slow, see above to get pto drive right and run tractor at or near rated speed. There is a trade off here, rotation speed can cause blow down need to experiment with ground speed/ pto speed combinations

9 Too much roll pressure can do strange things to cutting and cut material. Experiment, I tend to back roll pressure right off and ensure roll clearance is at least 1/32 and I prefer 1/8 inch or slightly more I know that is more than NH recommend.

10 bunching of material on the cutter modules because not cleared by rollers. Reduce roll pressure and experiment with roll clearance but do not have rollers touching absolute min clearance is 1/64 inch.

Good luck these are in my view very good machines and have cut for me in a wide range of conditions. Moisture content type of material an material height and density.

Would appreciate knowing outcome.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Sorry to hear lack of progress to date and of failure to remedy.

Sorry my post in preparation when you posted your results but it may help someone else.

NOW you are going to have to get down and dirty.

I know there are differences between Australian law and US law, but I understand that it is a basic tenet of contract law that the item must be fit for purpose. The CNH will try to hide behind the fact that your offer to buy was for a NH 7320 and that is what you got. It is a lot easier if your offer to buy was for a machine to ut condition and windrow alfalfa. That way it is the skill of the dealer in configuring the machine that is put front and entre. Further the contract probably has a clause that this is the entire contract and excludes any verbal representation by the dealer.

So a little harder but not impossible.

To digress I once did a case (no pun intended) involving a Case round baler (ex US) that was the proverbial lemon and despite CNH extending warranty to 3 years the machine was still a failure and cost my client dearly in downtime and lost customers. Kept the cool and hammered away on fitness for purpose ie a machine that would not perform to any reasonable industry standard for baling hay.

Client and I ended up without issuing court proceedings (that is very public) in meetings with CNH corporate and dealer, the upshot was a trade-in deal for a new Case round baler (ex Europe) with full price initial purchase price of old baler as allowance on the new one which fortuitously was on a heavily discounted sale price plus the surplus going to clear the account at the dealer. At least a $18K turnaround.

You have a machine that will not satisfactorily cut alfalfa and the dealer failed to warn you that it would not. I hope you said it was for alfalfa, but alfalfa is in the ordinary range of product that a moco could be expected to process.

It doesn't so not fit for purpose.

A little legal help/advice without getting the legal eagle to fly into the dealer may go a long way to position yourself to as you have very reasonably put forward get back your trade and they get your low-use 7320 to pass on to a very happy customer that doesn't do alfalfa.

Enlist the testimony of the other disgruntled 7320 owners to show that the shortcoming of the machine was known by the dealer or other dealers or CNH. It could well be that knowledge of part of the CNH empire is knowledge of the whole, it is not your problem that the empire doesn't pass on information across the organisation After all dealers are agents of CNH and must act in CNH's best interest.

Keep hammering away at the dealer and CNH and put everything in writing, even now do it in writing to confirm transactions/dealings to date. Courts like nothing better than tangible evidence. Remember a good lawyer does not win cases GOOD EVIDENCE does. A good lawyer merely presents good evidence to your best advantage. If you go away on the first "NO" then the CNH empire doesn't have to do anything. Every letter/email/visit costs them $ and publicity of a case costs them more $ through lost custom/ reputation.

My son bought a brand new 1098S Ducatti Motorcycle. It had problems from day one, it would cut out at any time without warning He put everything in writing, kept his cool kept returning it to the local dealer, not the one which sold it, kept Ducatti in on every email and letter.After a year he got a deal of return the motorcycle and they supply a new one and he pay the stamp duty on the contract and pay the vehicle licence on the new one. Persistence, documented contacts and evidence of a problem which continued, it paid off.

Get some good advice at least so you know and not then be lamenting a lost opportunity.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Hard to beat a Deere for cut quality. That being said I ran a 1411 this season and was well satisfied.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Breaking News!!!! Dealer called and they finally admitted the 7230 wouldnt cut thin alfalfa satisfactory. They had no explaination. They are taking the 7230 back and giving me my JD 926 back with no obligations. I hate it that it turned up this way, but I cant have a machine that leaves crop uncut. Now on to further endeavors.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Great news, well done


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

KYBRONCO said:


> Breaking News!!!! Dealer called and they finally admitted the 7230 wouldnt cut thin alfalfa satisfactory. They had no explaination. They are taking the 7230 back and giving me my JD 926 back with no obligations. I hate it that it turned up this way, but I cant have a machine that leaves crop uncut. Now on to further endeavors.


Thats really strange, I've cut some really really thin stuff with my 1431 and while not as clean as a heavier yielding crop I never thought once about getting rid of it. On 8 acres attached to a 12 acre field I got ONE 1000lb round bale off the 8 acres, about 125lbs to the acre or 2 good stout small squares, that's pretty thin in my book.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

At any point did they take a different new mower off of the lot and try to mow alfalfa with it?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Good for you for sticking it out. Does not really solve the problem of getting a new discbine, but better than sinking all that $ into something you can't stand using.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> At any point did they take a different new mower off of the lot and try to mow alfalfa with it?


Yes, they brought two different older 1411's out, one wouldnt run (driveshaft) and other one they finished the field, but it still wouldnt cut the crop satifactory. They even admitted to it also. Strangest thing i have seen. I never would have thought this would have been such a major issue. Funny thing, I'm the only guy that has brought it to their attention. Other farmers stated it was a problem yesterday, but did nothing about it.


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## richard m (Jul 10, 2013)

I have a H7220 and have no problems cutting light alfalfa with it. My mower has the same bar as yours but is 9 foot cut. I don`t understand why you are having a problem and I don`t. Wonder if something is put on wrong or maybe they design has changed since I got mine? Glad you got your John deere back with out getting a lawyer. Most dealers are very honest. Sure there are some bad guys out there but it does not take long for customers to find this out and then the bad dealers are out of bussiness.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

It's great news that you got this resolved without having too escalate it any higher. Any plans on what direction you will go now? At this point if I were in your shoes I wouldn't know what to do ;-)


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Sounds like you will be forcing NH to redesign their 7230.
I have one and I'm pretty satisfied. Glad I don't have any alfalfa to cut .....yet....


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Well that shows you that New Holland can be a good company to deal with most of them wouldn't have done that just remember them on your next purchase.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Amazing that a company like like NH would produce a machine that won't cut the crop it was produced to cut.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

EVERYONE around here uses nh discbines. They cut alfalfa. There is something wrong with the one that kybronco had.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

You are right NH baler 282. It is easy to be critical but good deeds and good service needs to be recognised. Just as we should trumpet the failures and expose those that do not provide the support expected by our industry, we should also put on show good outcomes. When we have a good experience we may tell our friends but when we have a bad experience we tell everyone.

Remember a pat on the back is only a few vertebrate higher than a kick in the butt, however the feeling is a lot different :wub:


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Wow this topic is really flying. There could well still be something wrong with the machine supplied to Kybronco wether it be design, equipment assembly or what, there is no doubt that there was something right in the way the dealer handled the situation. The dealer although seemingly evasive of the issue at first, then sent staff to try and deliver a remedy, the tried another machine on-site and reversed the sale at what was no doubt some cost to him. Kybronco had some cost too but is now in essentially no worse position than he was before the deal was entered. Maybe older and wiser as we all can be out of this.

It would be very interesting to know if NH corporate backed the dealer and limited his losses in reversing the deal. If NH corporate provided meaningful they deserve a bunch of sweet smelling flowers too, if not perhaps something else :angry:


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

8350HiTech said:


> EVERYONE around here uses nh discbines. They cut alfalfa. There is something wrong with the one that kybronco had.


Ditto. They all cut, thick, thin, short, tall, alfalfa, or grass.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm finishing my third year with my 7230--no problems (knock on wood). I have about 40 acres orchard grass and 35 alfalfa plus some custom mowing. I have the high stubble kit (grass shoes) on it. I put a new set of blades on each spring. I run about 7 MPH and do about 7 acres/hour. I run it at about 500-510 RPM.

I've had no problems.

Ralph


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## GawasFarm (Jul 10, 2013)

I wonder if you the 7230 mowers are only having problems in that area?? Do they all come from same distribution place?? Seems odd....also that the other mowers wouldn't work either. Just wondering if they are set up differently than others maybe more of a grass setup if that is possible. I have a 2008 1411 so the model year before the 7230 and it cuts like a charm. I keep fresh blades on it and the only time I will start to get some streaking behind the mower is once the blades are dull and beat up. Easy fix for me though once I notice it starting to streak I flip or swap blades and it cut shave a babies bottom!!! I would assume though that new sharp knives where on the machine since it was new. Odd situation.

Glad it worked out and you had no real financial loss only some long days. Good luck finding a machine that works for you

I cut mainly alfalfa fields. one year I cut 45 acres and got 44 round bales 4x4 (baleage)...it was thin but cut great


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Craziest thing our 7330(flails) never leaves anything in our alfalfa fields. Literally nothing at any speed. Neighbors has 7230, is a dairy and never has any problems at all. Does all alfalfa no grass. Something is seriously messed up in that machine.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I am going to get into trouble for suggesting this, but everyone is overlooking the crop itself. I asked a question in one of the earlier posts about how the cut was when mowing in the opposite direction. That question was never answered. As I said before there is very little alfalfa left in our area. It is cheaper and better quality to bring in alfalfa hay from out west. Recently I did start a new 7220 in pure alfalfa that the wind had blown down. Cutting with the crop laying away from the machine was not producing the kind of cut I would like but when moving in the opposite direction of the way it was laying produced a clean cut. We were not cutting at the lowest level. We started at the highest position and went to the middle position which did help the cut. All I am suggesting is if the crop was already leaning away from the machine, or close to the ground, the turbulence from the rolls probably pushed it the rest of the way over so the cutterbar went over the top.

So, why did the 1411 do slightly better? Worn rolls produce less turbulence. I would suggest to kybronco that if he wants any disc machine with rollers he should try it first in his later cuttings alfalfa crop. It would have been interesting to see what a 7330 would have done being a flail machine. The flails on a 7330 do not damage the crop as much as the flails in the competitive machines.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Agreed mike10, nothing should be discounted.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

haybaler101 said:


> Ditto. They all cut, thick, thin, short, tall, alfalfa, or grass.





8350HiTech said:


> EVERYONE around here uses nh discbines. They cut alfalfa. There is something wrong with the one that kybronco had.


I am glad that the owners of NH in your part of the country are doing good with them. We simply couldnt make it perform, or the dealer. I wish it were not the case. It was a big setback and hassle for me. The pics I posted on the first post dont do it justice. I dont know anyone that raises alfalfa that would accept the job it did cutting the hay. I agree something was wrong, but it never was resolved.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

mike10 said:


> I am going to get into trouble for suggesting this, but everyone is overlooking the crop itself. I asked a question in one of the earlier posts about how the cut was when mowing in the opposite direction. That question was never answered. As I said before there is very little alfalfa left in our area. It is cheaper and better quality to bring in alfalfa hay from out west. Recently I did start a new 7220 in pure alfalfa that the wind had blown down. Cutting with the crop laying away from the machine was not producing the kind of cut I would like but when moving in the opposite direction of the way it was laying produced a clean cut. We were not cutting at the lowest level. We started at the highest position and went to the middle position which did help the cut. All I am suggesting is if the crop was already leaning away from the machine, or close to the ground, the turbulence from the rolls probably pushed it the rest of the way over so the cutterbar went over the top.
> 
> So, why did the 1411 do slightly better? Worn rolls produce less turbulence. I would suggest to kybronco that if he wants any disc machine with rollers he should try it first in his later cuttings alfalfa crop. It would have been interesting to see what a 7330 would have done being a flail machine. The flails on a 7330 do not damage the crop as much as the flails in the competitive machines.


I will certainly answer the crop question. The crop was managed with the help of University of Kentucky and our expertise from the beginning. The crop was standing fine, no lodging at all. I have seen that this year. The plants were not droopy or etc. Stood tall and straight. Hay was cut at 1230 pm, broad daylight, no dew, no wind, bright sunshine, 75 deg, 30% humidity. Textbook hay weather. The same conditions were observed at the other farmers field during testing with the dealer's mechanic. Nothing we did could make it cut. The old 1411 was better, but still not to my standards of cutting at the crown of the plant.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

GawasFarm said:


> I wonder if you the 7230 mowers are only having problems in that area?? Do they all come from same distribution place?? Seems odd....also that the other mowers wouldn't work either. Just wondering if they are set up differently than others maybe more of a grass setup if that is possible. I have a 2008 1411 so the model year before the 7230 and it cuts like a charm. I keep fresh blades on it and the only time I will start to get some streaking behind the mower is once the blades are dull and beat up. Easy fix for me though once I notice it starting to streak I flip or swap blades and it cut shave a babies bottom!!! I would assume though that new sharp knives where on the machine since it was new. Odd situation.
> 
> Glad it worked out and you had no real financial loss only some long days. Good luck finding a machine that works for you
> 
> I cut mainly alfalfa fields. one year I cut 45 acres and got 44 round bales 4x4 (baleage)...it was thin but cut great


I am glad you got a good one.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I'd look at a Krone or another Kuhn with rolls. The area District Rep. tells me there's a newly designed Kuhn being field tested now and if everything goes well it should go in production this Winter. He said the FC trailed version that's been on the market for quite while is being phased out. We're currently debating whether to repair the FC 243 RTG here or replace it. No disrespect to the smaller JD MoCo owners but we looked over a 625 Flail and a 630 roller MoCo the other day and frankly I don't see how they get what they're charging for those machines.


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

Grateful11 said:


> I'd look at a Krone or another Kuhn with rolls. The area District Rep. tells me there's a newly designed Kuhn being field tested now and if everything goes well it should go in production this Winter. He said the FC trailed version that's been on the market for quite while is being phased out. We're currently debating whether to repair the FC 243 RTG here or replace it. No disrespect to the smaller JD MoCo owners but we looked over a 625 Flail and a 630 roller MoCo the other day and frankly I don't see how they get what they're charging for those machines.


Agreed! We are talking to the Kuhn dealer again, he is telling us the same thing you mentioned. We may wait till next spring, or get another 313 with rolls. Also looking at used Jd 936 that is comparable moneywise to the Jd 926 we have.


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## ABOE7090 (Oct 4, 2013)

Coondle said:


> Wow this topic is really flying. There could well still be something wrong with the machine supplied to Kybronco wether it be design, equipment assembly or what, there is no doubt that there was something right in the way the dealer handled the situation. The dealer although seemingly evasive of the issue at first, then sent staff to try and deliver a remedy, the tried another machine on-site and reversed the sale at what was no doubt some cost to him. Kybronco had some cost too but is now in essentially no worse position than he was before the deal was entered. Maybe older and wiser as we all can be out of this.
> 
> It would be very interesting to know if NH corporate backed the dealer and limited his losses in reversing the deal. If NH corporate provided meaningful they deserve a bunch of sweet smelling flowers too, if not perhaps something else :angry:
> 
> ...


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## ABOE7090 (Oct 4, 2013)

KYBRONCO said:


> I am glad you got a good one.


NO THERE NOT ALL HAVING ISSUES , YOU JUST DID NOT HAVE A DEALER THAT KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING .


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## KYBRONCO (Aug 21, 2013)

ABOE7090 said:


> Coondle said:
> 
> 
> > Wow this topic is really flying. There could well still be something wrong with the machine supplied to Kybronco wether it be design, equipment assembly or what, there is no doubt that there was something right in the way the dealer handled the situation. The dealer although seemingly evasive of the issue at first, then sent staff to try and deliver a remedy, the tried another machine on-site and reversed the sale at what was no doubt some cost to him. Kybronco had some cost too but is now in essentially no worse position than he was before the deal was entered. Maybe older and wiser as we all can be out of this.
> ...


Enlighten me then. I would love to know what needed to be done. I wish we could have made it work and now i wouldnt have to be making another decision on what to buy.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Well Kybronco, you may well now be in a very good position with Kuhn to release a new machine onto the market, they may be amenable to an on your site field trial next year to show-off their new gear.

May be worth a try even if you do not buy.

Alternatively you can be in the market out of season when there are not so many buyers about, I always try to buy my hay gear out of season and have had some very good deals a month or so after the season finishes.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

I have stumbled across what may have been causing this a few days ago. I was using an old 408 to cut alfalfa, and it was leaving a streak on the LH side about a foot wide, worst in the thin bits (almost not cutting that foot strip at all). I had a look afterwards, and the is an infill panel between the cutter bar and the conditioner, and there was a piece broken off exactly where it was streaking. I am in the process of replacing it, but I note the newer discbines don't have this panel, which I assume the purpose of it, is to stop blowdown by the rolls?

I will be very interested to see if this fixes it. I also wonder whether it still is an option on the newer models, I note in the parts book, it lists a light hay kit?

Thoughts?


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

Update for anyone that may be interested: I replaced the tray between the cutter bar and conditioner mentioned in the above post; man, what a difference! It cut perfectly, didn't leave a whisker. I think the omission of this in the later models was causing the OP's headaches, and a few others I have heard of. The way I understand it, is it is to stop turbulance being drawn in from the back by the lower roll and blowing over the crop, and also to ensure all the crop goes through the conditioner. Makes me wonder why NH stopped fitting it??

I also looked further into the light hay kit available for it, it is a similar thing, but for the top roll. It is basically an infill to stop air being drawn in from the back by the top roll.

Not having any more trouble with light hay now though, the alfalfa is going strong after some serious irrigation and rain


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Nice to know that there is still some green somewhere on this earth.


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