# Jd 4430 a/c



## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Well we just bought a used 4430 and when we bought it she was blown ice cubes. They said they just recharged the A/C. A week or 2 went by and now i can turn the temp back to normal air and it feels the same as when the A/C is cranked on. Is their any way I can recharge this?
Jonathan


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm not familiar with yours but the one on my Ford 9600 is just a typical automotive a/c system for it's era (mid '70's). If you know someone that's familiar with auto air conditioning they should be able to troubleshoot it for you. Hopefully it's a 134a system as R12 is VERY expensive & you have to have a permit to buy it. I converted mine to 134a; so far so good. You most likely have a leak somewhere that you'll need to find & repair. I am assuming that the compressor is running? If not it may have a low pressure switch that shuts it down if it gets low on refrigerant but on my "dinasauer" it has no low pressure switch. Hope this helps.

Lew


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## Cannon (Aug 18, 2009)

I would say you have a leak, but yes they are easy to recharge.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Johnathon, Be sure that the heat is not on along with the ac. I think you have 2 controls that will allpw both to run at the same time. If not, you need to repair the leak and then leak test the whole system. Mike


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

well it is a 134a system but i do not know where the A/C unit is on the tractor


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

jonathan, the compressor is powered by the same belt as the alternator. Thats where to look Mike


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## midniteplowboyy (Jul 1, 2010)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> well it is a 134a system but i do not know where the A/C unit is on the tractor


Are you asking how to get to the evaporator and fan in the cab? You have to take the top off, remove the three phillip screws under the front roof lip and two 15/16" bolts on top of roof. The roof tilts to the back, be careful the hinges may be rusty and crack the fiberglass. Under the roof is a big plate with about thirty phillip screws in it, take that plate off, under it is your heater core, evaporator core, expansion valve and fans.

Is your compressor clutch turning?

If you find you have a leak, check the low pressure return line in the left rear cab post, there bad about rusting out(its surrounded by foam and holds water that sweats off the line.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

I think it just may be low on coolant tomarrow im gunna get some coolant and put it in there


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

where can i buy 134a coolant?


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## Dolphin (May 21, 2010)

If it was just recharged two weeks ago and blew cold but now does nothing you have a leak. Recharging will just waste the coolant and your money. Find the leak first.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

If all your components are good...try some freon with dye and see if you can find a hose or pin hole in a hose. in fact my just check the hoses. The dye is UV so you will need a UV bulb for a trouble light to find the leak. That is if you want to do this yourself. Here is a link to the freon so you see what you need. Quest/12.3 oz. R134a refrigerant with single application of UV dye | Freon 134a | AutoZone.com Good Luck


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> where can i buy 134a coolant?


Around here walmart automotive department is the cheapest I've found; 6.79 iirc a can. I think they had some (more expensive) with a dye in it to locate a leak; tnat may have been at autozone though.

Lew


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Is their an easy way to know where the leak is? We bought the tractor and the guy said he would recharge it, then deliver it. So we do not know how much he put in. That could be a factor but checking for the leak will not hurt? Does anyone know an easy way to find it?


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> Is their an easy way to know where the leak is? We bought the tractor and the guy said he would recharge it, then deliver it. So we do not know how much he put in. That could be a factor but checking for the leak will not hurt? Does anyone know an easy way to find it?


Most of my experience is from years ago on the old R12 automotive systems which I'm told were "less picky" about how much refrigerant than 134 is. I'm not familiar with the dye (though the new oil I put in my Ford 9600 has dye in it). In the "old days" we'd first look for "oil spots" (some oil will usually leak out of the system with the refrigerant) on the coils, hoses, etc. & then spray the spots if found with soapy water. look for bubbles. Also spryed all the fittings with soapy water; usually you'd find a leak somewhere. As to how much 134 to add I was able to drop the cover for the evaporator coil (cold coil) down & added until I had sweating all over the coil. you can follow where the coil is the coldest that way. When the entire coil was sweating I stopped adding it. Tractor running about 1200 rpm. Mine was pulled to a vacuum (I'd replaced virtually everything) as when I put the new compressor on it had a bad leak; was a hose. Hoses were probanly as old as the tractor from the looks of them (it's a 76 model) so it now has a new compressor, all new hoses, clutch & filter/dryer. IIRC I put close to 3 cans in it.

Hope this helps; I'm certainly no expert!

Lew


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

yes it does i didnt know if soapy water would work but i guess it would


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> i didnt know if soapy water would work but i guess it would


Only problem with soapy water is it may not show the very small leak you probably have since it took a coupla weeks to leak out. Be SURE to look for oily spots first. Of course you'll hafta have some 134 in it so you know you have pressure; otherwise no soap bubbles. I never thought of it before but kid's "bubble fluid" might work even better than regular soapy water.









Lew


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Well I went out and checked THE WHOLE line and their is no oily spots I could find so I started it up and let it run and felt the line the whole way and it was more hot than cold. I pushed the valve to see if any free on would come out. Instead it was just air. I think its low


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> Well I went out and checked THE WHOLE line and their is no oily spots I could find so I started it up and let it run and felt the line the whole way and it was more hot than cold. I pushed the valve to see if any free on would come out. Instead it was just air. I think its low


OK; you say you checked the line all the way; just to be sure you're checking everything there will be at least 3 lines connecting everything. the suction (low pressure) line will go from the compressor to the evaporator (cold) coil. The next one goes from the other connection on the evaporator to the condensed (hot) coil. It will probably be smaller than the suction line. The third (probably the same size as the smaller one from the evaporator to condenser) will go from the other side of the condenser to the high pressure side of the compressor. The suction line should be cool; others should be warm to hot. The small high pressure lines are far higher pressure than the suction line; be careful pressing the valve on the suction side as if it's low enough on refrigerant when it's running it could pull a vacuum & let moisture in. If you pressed it while it was not running & it had any pressure at all it's not totally empty but may not have any liquid in it; you need a little liquid in it to build enough pressure to leak test.

Lew


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

There is a a little electical componenet ( don't know what to call it) hanging off of the compressor 3 wires. WE have trouble with the posts of this component not making good contact thus the compressor will not kick in. you also will have a thermosat in the cab that could be bad. Mark


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

kfarm_EC_IL said:


> There is a a little electical componenet ( don't know what to call it) hanging off of the compressor 3 wires. WE have trouble with the posts of this component not making good contact thus the compressor will not kick in. you also will have a thermosat in the cab that could be bad. Mark


Good points. I'd forgotten about the thermostat (it was bad on my Ford so I wired accross it) plus I just took it for granted that the compressor is kicking in on the JD. Not familiar with the other component you're referring to; my Ford don't have anything like that. Might be able to pick it out & get a "name" plus figure out what it does from the online JD parts catalog?

Lew


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

well ill give that a try tomarrow. I think it might just be low on coolant.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

That little electrical thing is the thermal fuse - when the compressor has to run ALL the time it gets hot, and blows one of the posts in it, and stops the compressor. the simple fix is to use a wire and jump it. If you have a bad expansion valve it will also do the same thing, even if the system is fully charged. A 4430 will take 4 cans of 134a if the system is entirely empty. What kind of system does it have on it? you said it was converted to 134a - does it have another compressor, or is the long black one - an A6? You really need to have a set of guages to really identify what the problem is - if you know it's just low, then you can just add a can or so, but the trouble is that if it has leaked out in a few weeks, you'll be at the same spot by the time the month is over. You have to find where the leak is at. I'd suspect an o-ring, or the pipe going up the rear post of the cab. Or maybe it is just one or the service valves - if you know whether it has PAG or ester oil in it, just add a few drops to each service valve, and see if one of them blows bubbles - the oil might make it stop leaking after it's been opened and closed. You should replce the dryer each time the system is opened up, and while you're doing that, it might be a good idea to replace the expansion valve - especially if the one pipe is bad. If the system is opened up, it HAS to be pumped down to a vacuum. You're either going to have to buy some tools, or find somebody that has them and works cheap. A/C does not function like any other cooloing system - when it does get recharged, you are charging it with the GAS of the 134a. Many guys will put the can in a bucket of hot water to make things go faster, and heater blankets are sold for big cyclinders. Just cause a gas came out does not mean it's empty.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Good advice on this issue, there is a lot more to it then just adding more refrigerate and usually that is a very short term fix that works a few times until the system runs out of oil and the compressor fries or something. I have seen far too many times paying a technician to get the tractor blowing cold air and then a few days later it blows hot air. Alot of times leaks are really hard to find and often shortly after fixing one leak on a old system something else goes bad. Had this happen alot on my 1977 White 2-105 until finally I said enough is enough and a friend of mine and I re-did the whole system, all new lines, fittings, condensor, compressor. Now have not had to do anything to it for a few years, we even found some R-12 for it.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

If the line is leaking does the pipe get kinda bubbly and chorroded like. It is just above the rear tire so I know that mud and water and other stuff gets on it, but is the free-on chorroding it?


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Not likely that you will see corrosian at the leak, like someone wrote earlier, most likley oil looking slime at the area of the leak. Check spots where there are connection, fittings, etc. Look up on Wikpedia about how automotive air conditioning works so that you have a better understanding of what all this about. Then you can approach this logically. Biggest problem is finding the leak, often not noticeable, even with dyes and purple lights.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Okay Ill give that a try.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Okay I have checked all the lines...there is no leak. I went to put in the free on and I couldnt find where to put it in!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Without seeing what kind of fittings are on that tractor - you either need something that just plain screws on the fittings on the compressor, or you need the quick coupler that should be installed on a 134a conversion. You need to get either one at the auto store where you got the 134a.

That said, you have got a serious problem. You say the system doesn't leak, but it also doesn't work - are you 100% certain the compressor runs? Does it run for a split second and then shut off again? You haven't said as of yet. I have said it before...... you really need a set of gauges to see what the pressures are, and how the system reacts. I think you ought to have somebody there with you to show you how/what to do, cause the A/C system is sorta finicky, and it's not the sort of thing you want to 'experiment' on.

If the compressor won't run, then the freon will not go in the system - the compressor has to suck the gas in, as the can won't have enough pressure to 'push' the gas in. If the system is in fact low on 134a, it DOES have a leak, even if you have not found one. Just depending, I have seen it where there was no longer enough pressure in a system for it leak, or to leak enough that a guy could find it, and that might be the situation that you have. There is a LOT more involved than just putting more 134a in a system that doesn't work.

Rodney


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Bowlinchamp, Refrigerent leaks are very hard to find sometimes. Try to find a friend that has an electronic leak detector to go over all of your pipe and fittings. You need to check the fittings very carefully. That is probably where your problem is. Refrigerant will not corrode your lines. Be sure to add REFRIGERANT COMPRESSOR OIL to your system. Mike


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Okay I have my gauge but i can only find the small port where I can add anything or check it because my gauge only fits over the large port. How do I know if the compressor is running?


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> Okay I have my gauge but i can only find the small port where I can add anything or check it because my gauge only fits over the large port. How do I know if the compressor is running?


Sounds like maybe someone didn't put the adapter fittings on it as the R12 fittings are smaller. As to the compressor running, all I've ever seen have an electric clutch; if the compressor isn't running the center of the clutch will not be turning when the engine runs; only the pulley on the outside. If u have someone that can turn the air on & off while you watch the front of the compressor (engine running of course) it'll be very obvious when it cuts on & off if it's working.

Lew


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Standard R-12 fittings look just like the valve stem on a tire, and are about that size, and I have seen a 'gauge' that had a green yellow and red are for charge on it.... That seemed like a joke to me. 134a fittings are sorta like a hydraulic coupler, and the high side (red) is bigger than the low side (blue). On your 4430, the blue one will be towards the outside of the tractor, it will come from rearward, do a 45 degree bend upwards, and be a bigger hose in diameter than the high pressure side. The suction (low) side of things will always be a bigger hose.

Sit in the seat, and just turn the key on, and turn the radio off, do not have the tractor running. Turn the fan on low, and then turn the cold knob on, and you should hear a little 'click' - that is the compressor clutch energizing. If you want, you can just turn the key on and off, and do this from the ground. To see if the compressor runs with the engine..... Start the tractor, and turn the fan and the cold knob on. The compressor *should* run, at least for half a second every so often. You will have to be standing on the ground, and you will have to be looking at the compressor. Listen for the clutch to engage and disengage, you should also hear a difference in the engine. A set of dual manifold gauges (which you ought to have anyway) will tell a guy a lot. You can see in seconds wether or not the compressor is running, if the expansion valve is plugged, if the charge is too low or too high. If the system has to be taken down to fix an o-ring or replace a part, you will need a set of them anyway, cause it will have to be vacuumed down.

Exactly what does your gauge look like? Is it just one dial, and has a hose maybe a foot long, and it's blue? That is the absolute minimum.

Do you have any buddies that work on cars and might have any of this stuff, or have been looking for an excuse to get some of these tools? It is sorta dumb to equip yourself with everything for one tractor, but depending what is wrong, you gotta have the tools. Harbor freight has a set of 134a gauges for about $50 with a plastic case.

Rodney


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## Cozyacres (Jul 16, 2009)

I think you should take it to someone who knows tractor AC. You could really hurt yourself if you do it wrong. Refrigerant can be under very high pressure and cause bad frost burns from the liquid refrigerant. I have been doing AC and refrigeration for over 20 years and have seen many people work on AC systems that shouldn't have to save a buck and ended up damaging the system and it cost them more then if they would have just had it done right the first time. BE CAREFUL

Just my 2 cents


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

cozyacres said:


> I think you should take it to someone who knows tractor AC.


Aye.

Just bought a tractor to round bale with. Previous owner installed a brand new compressor. Waste of time and money if you don't change the receiver dryer, and change the hose that was obviously leaking.

Spent most of today fixing it. Got the proper chart from the compressor manufacturer, added enough oil to cover the new hose, new expansion valve, and new dryer. Was very low as obviously the oil that should have been in the system leaked out from the bad hose and the new compressor didn't have enough to replace what was lost. That was after spending two hours clearing a blockage out of the line from the dryer to the expansion valve. Old receiver dryer actually started coming apart inside or something, had teeny little balls of something plugging the line up from the expansion valve back to the receiver dryer. I'm guessing it's the desiccant from the receiver/dryer. What a PITA, works now though, have 47 degrees at the vent.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

...can you come to my farm and fix mine? How do you know if the compressor is running by the way.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Checked Google Earth, 4 hour and 36 minute drive time.

Start the tractor, turn the blower on and the thermostat all the way to cold then look at the center of the AC compressor and see if it's turning. The pulley will always turn long as the engine is running, but it should be obvious if the center of it isn't. With the engine off but with the key on, the blower on, and the thermostat set to cold, take a test light and see if the compressor clutch is getting juice. While it's rare I've had a wire break in the windings on an AC clutch before. If your not getting juice, then it's either low and the low pressure switch is open, you have a blown fuse, or a bad connection. I've never had the actual thermostat go out before but that could be another possibility.

Like what's been said before, you really need a good set of gauges to really know even where to begin.

Pick up a service manual as well for the tractor. I've always found em to be well worth the price and have even begun to require the seller of a piece equipment I'm looking at to include a shop/service manual as part of the price.


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

If the compressor is running the center circled in yellow will be turning. If just the outer pulley is turning and not the center the compressor is not running.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Alright that makes since ill check that. Thanks guys


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Blue Duck, I wish I had those skills but then again, I'm too dang old


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

Well, I took a look, There is a little plate on it that spins by a belt. where the area is to see if the compressor is running. Now can I take that off or will something try to kill me?


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> Well, I took a look, There is a little plate on it that spins by a belt. where the area is to see if the compressor is running. Now can I take that off or will something try to kill me?


I just looked at the online parts page & am not certain but it appears that with the clutch engaged (compressor turning) that plate will turn; if not engaged (as in air conditioner turned off) it should remain still while belt turns just the pulley.

I was messing with my 9600 Ford today & with the engine off there is a rather loud click you can hear inside the cab when the clutch engages (I turned the a/c on; click easily heard over the blower noise).

Hope this helps

Lew


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## A&H Hay (Jul 25, 2010)

That plate should be a dust cover to protect the clutch contact surfaces from wear due to dirt.Just have someone turn A/C fan switch on and off with key on engine off,you should be able to hear the clutch click on.I had to replace the steel lines going up through left rear cab post on a fellows 4440 last summer,what a pain,had to slide out rear wheel to clear the lines.His A/C would not hold a charge and found the foam covered line rusty from holding moisture.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Foam covered line? Sounds like a bad ideal, can a hose be used to replace it? On all our Whites and I'm pretty sure on the Massey FWA we have, it's nothing but hose in the entire system. Nothing to rust out although some care has to be taken to ensure the hose doesn't rub on anything.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

lewbest said:


> I just looked at the online parts page


Can you post the link to the parts page?


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

lewbest said:


> I just looked at the online parts page


Can you post the link to the parts page?


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

yes it does click when i turn the key. What is the next thing to check?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If it clicks and try's to run then it's still possible that it's low enough not to work well but still has enough to allow the compressor to run. That's _if_ it has a low pressure switch in the system. Some didn't.

Five pages of posts here so I didn't reread them all, but is the condenser clean? I had earlier this year the AC on my mowing tractor wasn't working as well as normal and it turns out from making ripe hay, the condenser was full of orchard grass seed but the oil cooler and radiator was fine. Blew the condenser out and it was back to making ice cubes. The system has to have a way to get rid of the heat if it's to collect any heat out of the cab.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

okay remember im a high school student. What is the condenser? It does have a low pressure switch but my problem is that i cant find the high pressure to add the free on


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Trace the lines from the compressor to the front of the tractor, the smaller one off the compressor will be the high pressure line and goes to the condenser, the condenser's job in simplest terms is to cool the freon because the act of pressurizing it creates heat. From the condenser it goes to the receiver/dryer, from their to the expansion valve on the evaporator, from their will be a larger line going back to the compressor.

_NEVER_ add freon to the high pressure side. It's quite possible the pressure on the high side can be higher than whats in the can and the can could explode. _Only_ add freon to the low (suction) side of the system.

Adding too much freon can be as bad or worse than it not having enough, their should be a sight glass on the receiver/dryer, freon should only be added until you don't see any bubbles in the sight glass. Once it's running clear (no bubbles) most systems require at most another half pound of freon after that. If the sight glass is cloudy from contamination or age and nothing can be seen then the use of gauges and experience comes into play.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

A few other things:

The low pressure side (or suction side) is generally the larger hose. If it's already converted to 134A it will have a blue cap on the charge port, the low side charge port will be smaller than the high side which generally has a red cap.

The low pressure line will generally while the compressor is running be much cooler than the high pressure line.

If both ports are the same size and are threaded, then it's still using R12 or a drop in. Find a reputable person to convert it to 134A and leak test it.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Apparently you haven't read any of my posts.

The condenser and oil cooler are in the same package, just in front of the radiator. The A/C lines will be on the left side (compressor side) of things. Many times the condenser will be plugged with a dirt and oil mix. Once again, a set of gauges would show if there's a problem there - spray water on the condenser, and see if the high side pressure drops like a rock, if it does the condenser needs cleaning, and it will tell you if it is cleaned well enough. 134a and other A/C gases abosrb heat from the air, and will give a guy frostbite if any amount gets on your skin. YOU NEED TO FIND SOMEBODY TO WORK ON THIS THING.

Rodney


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

mlappin said:


> A few other things:
> 
> The low pressure side (or suction side) is generally the larger hose. If it's already converted to 134A it will have a blue cap on the charge port, the low side charge port will be smaller than the high side which generally has a red cap.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU this is what i was looking for im trying to find someone to service it but no one will do my tractor for cheap


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## Cozyacres (Jul 16, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> THANK YOU this is what i was looking for im trying to find someone to service it but no one will do my tractor for cheap


Remember you get what you pay for. If someone will do it "for cheap" they probably will do a bad repair that will cost you more in the long run.


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## lewbest (Dec 9, 2009)

bowlnchamp219 said:


> Can you post the link to the parts page?


Not sure if there's a direct link but go to johndeere.com & click on agriculture then parts. On the left side click view parts catalog then type in your model & pick out the section you want







Case IH and New Holland have a similar setup for viewing parts catalogs online but Kuhn don't as far as I know.

Lew


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## A&H Hay (Jul 25, 2010)

I would also blow out the evaporator,which is on top of the cab,below the roof and metal plate.The 4440's evaporator and heater core were full of dust and probally was never serviced.


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## bowlnchamp219 (Jun 17, 2010)

well i just realized that i need an adapter. The hose that they sell is too large for the port but my uncle has an adapter. YAY im tried of sweating in that cab


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