# Bermuda grass growers what is your herbicide program?



## Ranger518

I am trying to figure out a good herbicide program for my irrigated Bermuda grass field. The last few years I have started to get a little crab grass in my field this year 1st cutting was ok but now it has gotten pretty bad. So trying to figure out a plan of attack next year as I think it may be a little to late this year to do anything. In years past I have use 4qts of prowell h20 in early spring and it has worked ok for 1st and 2nd cutting but not great. I’m just trying to find out you guys with the Beautiful weed / grass free Bermuda fields what are you doing to get and keep it that way way. Thank you.


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## somedevildawg

I wish I could give you a sure fire remedy, but it ain't happening......can control most everything but crabgrass. Idk about prowl, but it's better than nothing....just kinda pricey. 
Keep them cut before going to seed, but that's really hard to do.....
Cadre if you're willing to loose a cut.....that's a tough one.
Spot spray with cadre....that's a pita but doable
Like I said, I'm of little help in regards to crabgrass 
It's a long term deal for sure.....


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## swall01

MSMA will smoke it


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## Ranger518

swall01 said:


> MSMA will smoke it


Yea I sure wish it was labeled for hay. I know a lot of people use it but I'm just to scared to on horse hay.


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## Troy Farmer

I hope I'm not cursing myself by saying this. I had a pretty bad crabgrass problem in my coastal. I started using Prowl (Satellite) and for the past two years crabgrass has been a non issue. There is a new pre emergent out this year by Corteva. From what I remember I think it would replace Prowl.

My problem is dallisgrass.

Sorry, Bayer not Corteva. Rezilon Herbicide.


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## Ranger518

Troy Farmer said:


> I hope I'm not cursing myself by saying this. I had a pretty bad crabgrass problem in my coastal. I started using Prowl (Satellite) and for the past two years crabgrass has been a non issue. There is a new pre emergent out this year by Corteva. From what I remember I think it would replace Prowl.
> 
> My problem is dallisgrass.
> 
> Sorry, Bayer not Corteva. Rezilon Herbicide.


Yea I have been reading a little on the Rezilon still not sure about it as it causes a toupee effect not sure if that is a issue or not but also was told that it is going to cost about $130.00 a acer to spray labeled rate in hybrid Bermuda.


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## swall01

Ranger518 said:


> Yea I sure wish it was labeled for hay. I know a lot of people use it but I'm just to scared to on horse hay.


your local chem supplier should be able to help you with the label situation. if my memory is correct here is an example: Cadre that is mentioned above is labeled for peanuts but it has the same chemical as Plateau that is labeled for hay. last time i used Cadre it was about 1/5 the price of Plateau


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## somedevildawg

MSMA won’t get it, must be another grass......I’ve used MSMA at 1 qt per acre and it didn’t touch it....I’ve used MSMA with surfactant and crop oil, no luck whatsoever. Interestingly enuf, I did spray a few days ago some Basagran and it burnt the tips of the leaves, hoping it would stunt it enuf to not go to seed, it came back like it wasn’t sprayed. Pastoral doesn’t faze it.....paramount, cadre, etc. will get it. Good luck, report back if you happen to stumble onto something.


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## swall01

somedevildawg said:


> MSMA won't get it, must be another grass......I've used MSMA at 1 qt per acre and it didn't touch it....I've used MSMA with surfactant and crop oil, no luck whatsoever. Interestingly enuf, I did spray a few days ago some Basagran and it burnt the tips of the leaves, hoping it would stunt it enuf to not go to seed, it came back like it wasn't sprayed. Pastoral doesn't faze it.....paramount, cadre, etc. will get it. Good luck, report back if you happen to stumble onto something.


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## Ranger518

swall01 said:


> somedevildawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> MSMA won't get it, must be another grass......I've used MSMA at 1 qt per acre and it didn't touch it....I've used MSMA with surfactant and crop oil, no luck whatsoever. Interestingly enuf, I did spray a few days ago some Basagran and it burnt the tips of the leaves, hoping it would stunt it enuf to not go to seed, it came back like it wasn't sprayed. Pastoral doesn't faze it.....paramount, cadre, etc. will get it. Good luck, report back if you happen to stumble onto something.
Click to expand...

It will kill it but you got to use high rate 2qts to the acer and then spray it again in 7-10 days at 2qts to the acer again it takes a high rate to kill it and even then sometimes it will recover but I have never sprayed it on hay ground.


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## weedman

Rezilon cost will be comparable to Prowl. It will control a host of annual grasses and broadleaves. Apply around Valentine’s Day for summer weeds or in August/September to control winter weeds. Year round control: apply at the above timing with split application. Yield studies on various Bermuda grasses as well as Bahia showed not detrimental impacts on yields.


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## TJ Hendren

MSMA requires 90 plus degrees to work effectively, use to say that on the label don't know if it still does. I stopped using it years ago, it is a form of arsenic.


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## Ranger518

weedman said:


> Rezilon cost will be comparable to Prowl. It will control a host of annual grasses and broadleaves. Apply around Valentine's Day for summer weeds or in August/September to control winter weeds. Year round control: apply at the above timing with split application. Yield studies on various Bermuda grasses as well as Bahia showed not detrimental impacts on yields.


That makes it more appealing if price is comparable. My Bermuda is pretty well established it's not sod but doesn't have any bare spots larger then a base ball so Guessing it would be ok to use. I think I am going to try it this spring if I can get my hands on some. May try half field in prowell and half Rezilon see what results I get.


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## weedman

I can't seem to get a pic posted from my phone, but I'll share a link to my twitter page. Just posted a pic of Prowl vs Rezilon.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283918201110376450


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## Ranger518

weedman said:


> I can't seem to get a pic posted from my phone, but I'll share a link to my twitter page. Just posted a pic of Prowl vs Rezilon.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283918201110376450


Wow that pretty good. Do you know what rate that was and time of year applied?


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## weedman

Ranger518 said:


> Wow that pretty good. Do you know what rate that was and time of year applied?


This was 3 fl oz/A applied first week of March. I didn't see any crabgrass up at that time (this was in AL), but farmer included 1 qt Roundup in as he wanted to control ryegrass in the demo also. Rezilon is lights out on ryegrass, and it will sure tell on you if you don't overlap your spray pattern. The 3+3 program I mentioned above usually results in clean Bermuda the entire year. 
I tell growers all the time that this isn't Prowl, where you want to try and get as close to seed germination as possible, but earlier is better. I'd rather someone apply it 2 months before germination than 2 days before. Like all PREs, it needs rainfall or irrigation.


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## Ranger518

weedman said:


> This was 3 fl oz/A applied first week of March. I didn't see any crabgrass up at that time (this was in AL), but farmer included 1 qt Roundup in as he wanted to control ryegrass in the demo also. Rezilon is lights out on ryegrass, and it will sure tell on you if you don't overlap your spray pattern. The 3+3 program I mentioned above usually results in clean Bermuda the entire year.
> I tell growers all the time that this isn't Prowl, where you want to try and get as close to seed germination as possible, but earlier is better. I'd rather someone apply it 2 months before germination than 2 days before. Like all PREs, it needs rainfall or irrigation.


Good deal thanks for the info. Does it work to prevent any other grass like signal or barnyard grass?


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## weedman

I have not seen it on enough broadleaf signal to say for sure, but it definitely has activity on barnyard. Some of the first hayfields it was tested in were up in TN that has barnyard as primary weed and it did a great job on it.


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## somedevildawg

Prowl H2O didn’t work that well for me....and it was pricey. When was that pic taken, earlier in the year? If so, Did you have any come up later? And if ya or nay, did you reapply?


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## somedevildawg

TJ Hendren said:


> MSMA requires 90 plus degrees to work effectively, use to say that on the label don't know if it still does. I stopped using it years ago, it is a form of arsenic.


Ya I generally spot spray now, my main target with MSMA is Vasey grass, once under control, it's not too bad to somewhat eradicate (for a minute). I don't like spraying the 1qt pa, couldn't imagine spraying any more....At 1qt it doesn't faze this crabgrass I have, but will smoke vasey....just needs that crop oil. I try to give a lot of distance around the ponds as well.


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## weedman

That pic was taken July 6. Generally what I see is that the 3 oz rate begins to break just a little by August, but not always. I've seen it carry through the summer also. Higher rates hold the entire growing season. 
I am working with a grower in Shorter, AL. Due to COVID I have not been able to get out as much. I talked to him a couple weeks ago as we had a large demo on his farm. I asked him how it was looking. His response was a quote I'll get a lot of mileage from. He said, "I see a big problem down here." I asked him what was wrong? His response was "The problem is my whole place doesn't look like this!"



somedevildawg said:


> Prowl H2O didn't work that well for me....and it was pricey. When was that pic taken, earlier in the year? If so, Did you have any come up later? And if ya or nay, did you reapply?


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## somedevildawg

I’ll definitely try it next year.....when did you apply, before first greenup of Bermuda or after? IIRC I applied Prowl in late April....


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## Troy Farmer

I was looking at products on the turf side trying to find a fix for my dallisgrass problem. I'm no chemist so what is it about the active ingredient in a product called celsius that would prevent it from being used in bermuda hay? It contains dicamba and I'm familiar with that but the other one is greek to me.


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## weedman

Troy Farmer said:


> I was looking at products on the turf side trying to find a fix for my dallisgrass problem. I'm no chemist so what is it about the active ingredient in a product called celsius that would prevent it from being used in bermuda hay? It contains dicamba and I'm familiar with that but the other one is greek to me.


I can't see where you are on my phone, but assume you have bermuda. Celsius wasn't developed for range and pasture uses...Fine turf only, that's the only reason. 
Now that Bayer is entering this market, I'm hopeful more effort will be put here because farmers have a real need for new solutions.


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## Troy Farmer

weedman said:


> I can't see where you are on my phone, but assume you have bermuda. Celsius wasn't developed for range and pasture uses...Fine turf only, that's the only reason.
> Now that Bayer is entering this market, I'm hopeful more effort will be put here because farmers have a real need for new solutions.


I'm in SC and yes I'm haying bermuda. Thanks. I just wondered if the active ingredient was dangerous in hay.


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## somedevildawg

Looks like its just dangerous to your pocketbook.....says it only “suppresses” dallisgrass, does mention crabgrass tho....


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## weedman

For more info on Rezilon, you can visit Rezilon.com

Also, there will be an informational webinar on August 11, 9-11 am CST. The link to attend should be on the website later this week.


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## somedevildawg

Thanks for the update.....


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## broadriverhay

@Ranger518 what is this toupee effect you are speaking of?


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## Ranger518

broadriverhay said:


> @Ranger518 what is this toupee effect you are speaking of?


From what I understand and have been told is that with a pre that is so good it basically doesn't allow anything to grow threw it and also will not allow the Bermuda runners to take root it will just spread across the top of the ground. Kinda like when Bermuda grows across concrete and sometimes you can't even tell there is a concrete slab there the Bermuda has taken it over also can happen on extremely compacted ground. So I'm guessing you would want a decent stand of Bermuda with not much bare spots.


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## weedman

That is correct. You will need a good stand, and it won't be labeled for use in newly sprigged fields, at least at the currently labeled use rates. As ranger stated, stolons won't peg down in most any PRE until you get enough degradation in that top layer of soil for the roots to take hold.


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## broadriverhay

Thanks for the replies to my question. Is the per acre cost really going to be $130?


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## weedman

broadriverhay said:


> Thanks for the replies to my question. Is the per acre cost really going to be $130?


No. It will be comparable to Prowl, but that's where any similarities end. I cannot give you a hard number because it will be what we call a title transfer product. This means we sell it at a set price to everyone and then the individual distributor and retailer will add a % on. Each one can decide what that will be on their own. So the co-op might add more on than your distributor down the street. That'll be up to them. From working with growers in the southeast, most use 3 qts of Prowl to have any chance to be effective. That's looks to be running $36-39/A. In Texas they generally use 2, so it'll be a little higher than what they usually spend.


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## Ranger518

weedman said:


> No. It will be comparable to Prowl, but that's where any similarities end. I cannot give you a hard number because it will be what we call a title transfer product. This means we sell it at a set price to everyone and then the individual distributor and retailer will add a % on. Each one can decide what that will be on their own. So the co-op might add more on than your distributor down the street. That'll be up to them. From working with growers in the southeast, most use 3 qts of Prowl to have any chance to be effective. That's looks to be running $36-39/A. In Texas they generally use 2, so it'll be a little higher than what they usually spend.


That sure would be nice.


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## weedman

I wanted to let folks know that the link to see the webinar on Rezilon is up now. It'll be next Tuesday starting at 9am cst.

www.Rezilon.com


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## broadriverhay

Rezilon is now available.


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## Ranger518

broadriverhay said:


> Rezilon is now available.


How much is it selling for?


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## JOR Farm

I was quoted a price of $8.55 per ounce should come to about $26 per acre. I went ahead and ordered enough to treat 100 acres got the perfect proving ground if the weather breaks so I can get to cutting again.


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## somedevildawg

JOR Farm said:


> I was quoted a price of $8.55 per ounce should come to about $26 per acre. I went ahead and ordered enough to treat 100 acres got the perfect proving ground if the weather breaks so I can get to cutting again.


Good luck, I was quoted $280 a bottle so about the same....ordered enuf for 250ac. We will see, as soon as the last cut is in the books we will give it a whirl.....nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## Ranger518

Still expensive but not bad at all.


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## broadriverhay

I haven’t bought it yet. When he called and said it was in he didn’t even know the price yet. I will know for sure when I write the check but I think somewhere close to what is being posted here.


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## broadriverhay

Cost is only 4 or 5 bales per acre. Everything has to be put in perspective.


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## weedman

One of our research scientists at our field station in NC sent me pics on Tuesday of ryegrass up about 2” in one of the research pastures there. With this cloudy rainy weather we have had across the SE, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were some germinating here. The earlier you get Rezilon out, the better.


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## broadriverhay

Wow, that’s crazy for it to be 2” this early. I sure hope Rezilon is as good as they are saying. Now Bayer needs to figure out how to at least forecast the weather. The weathermen sure can’t.


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## r82230

I'm definitely not a B-grass grower, but though I'd mention there is an article in the last issue of 'Hay & Forage Grower' that might be of interest to you guys that do. It's in the August/September issue, page 28 & 29. Now if I was smart enough to get the hard copy posted for you guys.........................

Larry


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## broadriverhay

Well I got Rezilon applied to my field Tuesday after baling. Now to wait until next Spring to see how it performs.


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## Rw7810

broadriverhay said:


> Well I got Rezilon applied to my field Tuesday after baling. Now to wait until next Spring to see how it performs.


So how did this work for you?


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## weedman

Ryegrass is already up here in Alabama. I went to three separate fields and found ryegrass up. Cloudy and rainy conditions contributed to that, I’m sure. Two years in a row we have had weather like this, when it is usually hot and dry. If folks didn’t get Rezilon wasn’t out by the first of September, they’ll likely miss a little ryegrass.


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## broadriverhay

The Rezilon worked great last year. I had almost complete control of Italian Ryegrass last Winter. I applied Rezilon on September 8 ,2021. I was waiting on the rain chances to increase or I would have applied it earlier. I got 1.1" of rain within 8 days of my application. Hpoing for the same results again this Winter!!


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## Bonfire

I applied today in a light rain.


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## weedman

Bonfire said:


> I applied today in a light rain.


Bonfire, where are you located?


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## Tx Jim

weedman said:


> Bonfire, where are you located?


By hovering my mouse arrow over Bonfire's handle I see he's from South Va. Does Rezilon control anything besides Ryegrass?


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## Troy Farmer

Tx Jim
I did an early spring application (Feb) this year. My fields were for the most part clean all season. I have a field with dallis grass and I think vasey in spots. These still were a problem but I expected it. I was pleased with the results.


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## Tx Jim

I read info on Rezilon but couldn't determine if it will have any control of Johnson grass.


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## weedman

Rezilon will control many of our annual grass weed species. It does not help at all with emerged plants. For perennials, it is looking like it does provide control of vaseygrass FROM SEED. I can’t speak to johnsongrass from seed, and suspect we may hinder it some, but being a larger seed able to come up from a little deeper, I wouldn’t expect too much. It is hard to evaluate control of perennials from seed because the established plants are usually not controlled, making seed control difficult to evaluate. Two studies I’ve seen thus far on vasey, where mature plants were controlled, were kept fairly clean of new germination by Rezilon.


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## Troy Farmer

Tx Jim said:


> I read info on Rezilon but couldn't determine if it will have any control of Johnson grass.


Jim I had a couple of small break through J grass incidents. No big patches. Plant here and there. Wiped them with gly. This is in field that I have fought J grass every year. My go to product until this year has been Pastora with AMS. This year I have not had to use Pastora. 

Weedman I added 1pt /acre gly with my Rezilon app this past week trying to clean up dallis grass and vasey. I hope I didn't clean up the T44 also! 😬


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## weedman

I heard from a sales rep in TX that a farmer there had perennial sandbur so bad he out 24 oz of Roundup on it to try and kill them. He said he had nothing to lose at this point. That was about a month ago and although it did knock it back, he thinks he got most of the burs and will have a good stand of Bermuda next year. Do not know the variety. Sod growers that grow zoysia wish they could kill Bermuda with 24 oz. I have sprayed a gallon per acre and not killed all of it. Please keep me posted on how it comes out next year.


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## Tx Jim

It's amazing how Grassburs can be absent then appear after being absent for years. The plans are very resilient to say the least


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## Bonfire

weedman said:


> Bonfire, where are you located?


Southside Va. straight above Durham, NC.


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## broadriverhay

Weedman, has any research been done on Signal Grass yet. I know it’s not in the label. I have an issue with it in my wet areas in my Bermuda. It does seem to be controlling it some but not 100%. The areas stayed fairly clean until early September. I think I may have asked you about this last year.


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## weedman

broadriverhay said:


> Weedman, has any research been done on Signal Grass yet. I know it’s not in the label. I have an issue with it in my wet areas in my Bermuda. It does seem to be controlling it some but not 100%. The areas stayed fairly clean until early September. I think I may have asked you about this last year.


Unfortunately, it takes a higher rate that what we can do with one application. Even then it isn’t perfect. You need 7 oz/A to really get good control. That’s just one of those we don’t don’t do well on, for some reason.


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## broadriverhay

Thanks , I kinda thought something like that since I seem to be seeing limited suppression. I seems to emerge in the very center of these wet areas. Also it will emerge in the tire ruts in some wets areas.


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## Cbull

weedman said:


> This was 3 fl oz/A applied first week of March. I didn't see any crabgrass up at that time (this was in AL), but farmer included 1 qt Roundup in as he wanted to control ryegrass in the demo also. Rezilon is lights out on ryegrass, and it will sure tell on you if you don't overlap your spray pattern. The 3+3 program I mentioned above usually results in clean Bermuda the entire year.
> I tell growers all the time that this isn't Prowl, where you want to try and get as close to seed germination as possible, but earlier is better. I'd rather someone apply it 2 months before germination than 2 days before. Like all PREs, it needs rainfall or irrigation.


Hello im new to the site. There’s a ton of information on here. Weedman i was thinking of trying some rezilon this year and just read something about the 3+3 program for clean bermuda all year. Could you tell me what they are please lol.


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## broadriverhay

3 oz. Per acre in mid February and then 3 oz. Per acre in late Summer. My field has absolutely no ryegrass now. I have made my fourth application since Rezilon was made available.


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## weedman

Cbull, 
broadriver hit it on the head. The program timing will depend on when you start, but essentially it is a split application of 3 oz each time, for a total of 6 oz\A. Generally, this is what is described above. depending on the weed species you have, the first 3 oz shot should be by Valentine’s Day, and the second shot of 3 oz before Labor Day. If you are mainly after foxtail or sandbur, then that second shot should come right after your first cutting. This should also give you pretty good ryegrass control into winter, but may not be as good as if you had done it later in summer.


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## broadriverhay

@Cbull if you are from the South you better be spraying now. These warm days are going to get the warm season weeds going early.


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## Cbull

broadriverhay said:


> @Cbull if you are from the South you better be spraying now. These warm days are going to get the warm season weeds going early.


Yeah im in eastern nc. I have some on the way should be here next week


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## broadriverhay

I hear about other guys having Rezilon ordered. Meherrin in Ridge Spring SC keeps it in stock. When their first shipment came in I was on the waiting list. He called me when the truck arrived and I had it on the ground in a few days. It will make you wonder if Prowl H2O was doing any good at all. There is no question with Rezilon. My field was always pretty clean with the use of Prowl , 2-4D and Glyphosate but still not this clean. I already have my Rezilon for late Summer on the shelf.


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## Cbull

broadriverhay said:


> I hear about other guys having Rezilon ordered. Meherrin in Ridge Spring SC keeps it in stock. When their first shipment came in I was on the waiting list. He called me when the truck arrived and I had it on the ground in a few days. It will make you wonder if Prowl H2O was doing any good at all. There is no question with Rezilon. My field was always pretty clean with the use of Prowl , 2-4D and Glyphosate but still not this clean. I already have my Rezilon for late Summer on the shelf.


That’s good to hear lol. Im going to try it on 35ac. I’d do it on all of my hay but with nit/fert prices so high im trying to stretch a dollar lol. Thats who i deal with is meherrin in whiteville nc. Supposed to be here Wednesday hopefully


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## broadriverhay

3 qts will treat 32 acres at 3 oz per acre. Just a thought.


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## Cbull

broadriverhay said:


> 3 qts will treat 32 acres at 3 oz per acre. Just a thought.


Lol yeah im going to be a little shy


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## Cbull

Cbull said:


> Lol yeah im going to be a little shy


Im gonna mark off the other 3 ac in that field and do my normal. Should be a good side by side comparison 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Cbull

broadriverhay said:


> 3 oz. Per acre in mid February and then 3 oz. Per acre in late Summer. My field has absolutely no ryegrass now. I have made my fourth application since Rezilon was made available.


My rezilon should be in Tuesday and plan to go ahead and get it out. Question is there’s not a very big chance of rain in the extended forecast. How long will it stay there before it starts losing effectiveness


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## broadriverhay

Weedman will have to answer that but I have had it lay for 2 weeks and still worked great last Winter. I think he answered that for me last year on here somewhere.


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