# Adding a Big Square Baler



## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We have considered adding a big square to our operation in the past. With the wet weather and 400 plus acres of first to make, we are considering this again to help get the work done when the weather finally breaks. We currently sell small squares and 4x5 rounds into the horse market. Would be looking at a used 3x3. Any plus and minuses on different brands. Have good dealers for each about equal distances away. How many bales is too many bales on a machine that stuff like needles are getting fatigued? 20,000...30,000? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Tim


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I have a Massey 2150 3x3. I've had it one season and a half now. Yesterday was the first time that a knot broke/missed so I'd say that is a pretty good run. I also have an accumulator on it which at times I like, but other times I wish I could just tear it off and I might just do that since I don't really need it now for convenient hay stacking. Most of those hate the accumulator times come when it breaks a bale for seemingly no reason. I chose it over a NH as it just seemed like a better machine with the onboard hydraulics and such. Plus the price was the same. I was buying new though. I don't know about the older used ones though. I think alot of the features on my 2150 are rather new as of 2011. You really have to be careful of moisture in the hay though. It needs to be dryer then with small squares. Not sure about rounds though as I've never used a round baler.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Tim, I have been thinking the same as you. We run 3 small balers but this year we are really backed up, and have been thinking of buying a used 3x3 also. I am interested in what others have to say. Several I have looked at have the crop cutter, I am not sure I want this option. Bob


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Bob,

I have also considered the cutter option. Thought my horse market might like it as easier to feed, but not sure. Don't want to break the bank, but getting concerned on getting hay made. Tim


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## brandenburgcattle42 (Sep 6, 2012)

The cutter helps make better bales in really long straw... denser.... and can give u a more efficient feed bale. Look for best and closest service that is super important.


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## jammer1297 (Jun 11, 2013)

Had 4750 Hesston 19 years very little problems except for P/U


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## crhay (Jun 19, 2010)

Everyone has they're own preference, We buy around 3000-4000 big squares of straw and bale few hundred acres a year. we deal with all 3 sizes of bales. 3x4's are so much easier to handle and stack, 3x3's are a pain and 4x4's are ok. but when stacking in the barn, a rectangle cube is much more stable when moving. 3x4's we can stack 7 high no problem, the 3x3's can get a bit shaky. As far as brand,, Well we run a Class, it does pretty well, but sometimes parts are a pain to get, may sometimes take a week. If I was to buy another, i'd probably go with a NH or Hesston as our local dealers are familiar with the two, and stock a lot of parts. I would base my decision on the dealer you have good luck with, how well they're service guys are with large balers, and also how well they stock parts. When you have hay down, seems like rain is always chasing you, if you have a breakdown, you want parts fast! Just my 2cents!


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

I guess one thing I am wondering is how many bales is too many bales? I know that how the baler was serviced, shedded, and taken care of plays a big role in this, but at what point are you starting to look at lots of issues?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Around 30k bales is when you want to start to get concerned. 20k bales *might* get you a decent baler for a few years. the big thing that I've heard everybody talk about (and what two of our neighbors have a LOT of trouble with) is the knotters. They need to have fans, and they need a complete rebuild at around 30k. I'm not certain what goes wrong, but you have to remember that 3x3 or 3x4 balers eat a LOT of hay to make a bale, and you have big and heavy parts flying around on those things = lots of wear. Myself, I would tend to lean towards a Hesston/Massy or even old CIH version, and my number 2 choice would be the NH - I would look at BB series machines, or newer. We have a NH and it only has a few thousand through it so I can't say really what a guy has to look for. I do know that you want a roller chute and a last bale eject, that partial bale eject (ours has it) is nearly useless - most times the tiny little spikes that move the bale back just chew the hay out the bottom of the bale, and you need the rope anyway..... I broke the rope 3 times, and then broke the strings on the bale. That was the 1st and last time I tried to get a partial bale out of the chamber. So far as the cutter.... I think it might be a lot of money that a guy can't recoup, depending on the market. Also, see what's popular in your market - 3x3's or 3x4's..... Seems like only the mid, far west, and mushroom guys like 4x4s. A preservative system is nearly a MUST on these machines, unless you live in the desert. The hay does have to be a few points lower in moisture.

Rodney


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## dbergh (Jun 3, 2010)

Heres my 2 cents worth: We have purchased used 4x4 Hesston 4910's to keep cost down and because I hate going into debt. Both were over 30K bales when we got them and both have been fairly good to us. I have a dealer that I trust and he scouts the best balers for us and they also have a baler Mech. that is top notch and can be here at all hours of the day and night. Do we have trouble with them? Once in a while, but usually not major issues and they can be fairly easily dealt with. So far not seeing fatigue or major knotter issues on either machine. A good off season checkup on them is a must and seems to catch most issues before they turn into major problems. Would I buy new? Yes if money was no object and/or i had thousands of acres to cover or I did custom work. In my case I need push 2 to 3 thousand bales through each machine in any given year and they are suitable for this. When I look at the cash or debt required to own new vs serviceable older machines it is a no-brainer for me but that's just me! When I get rich and famous I may decide to run all new stuff but until then.........


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Agree completely with Rodney R and dbergh. Once a big square gets to the 20-30k bale count, things start to show a little wear. However, with some good off season maintenance, they can be made to work. Knotters and knotter clutch would be what I would watch the closest.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

We run a 4x4 and some of our customers do complain about the size of the bale. Next baler will be a 4x3 with a cutter. i would never buy a baler without a cutter now as many customers will only buy processed bales. Having the cutter gives you the choice to make either type of bale. As far as which baler is better that is the big question. We run a heston and our next one will probably be a heston again. When i asked a dealer that sold both heston and new holland which was better he told me this. They are both good but there is a major difference between them. the new holland is all gearboxes and drive shafts. You don't see what is happening until it blows and then it is a big process to fix. The heston is all chains and sprockets and you see them every time you lift the shields.You have the choice to change them at your convenience. Also when they blow in the field with a roll of chain in the service truck you are soon back baling. We have new holland mowers, round baler and small square balers but don't see a NH big square in the future.We are in maine and have no dealer for heston big square balers so you get real friendly with out side dealers quick. All of our parts come from PA,OH and kansas and we do all the service. What ever you buy once you have a big square you will never want anything else. just my thoughts hope it helps gary


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hay rake, how about putting your general Maine location in your profile....it always helps everyone with advice or responses. 

Regards, Mike


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

A big baler can run 40-60,000 bales easily with routine maintenance. #1 question about a used big baler is this, How many corn stalk bales were ran through it. The 4910-4755 series is a great choice with a few improvements over the 4900-4750 series, but before the major changes to the series. The newer ones have a larger capacity, more strokes per minute, but will come with double the price for a decent used baler. The newer timken style packer crank can be bought with pretty much everything to rebuild it for under 5k. New knotter slip clutches, rebuild the pickup easy (4910-4755 have dual cam drive) 10 new bearings, 10 new cam rollers, a couple sleeves of mini rollers for needles and tucker arms, new knives, a few new chains, a few other new rollers like knotter drive and stuffer drive. It is pretty easy to save upwards of 100k over a new baler with a few days of work. I could buy a nice dealer owened 12k bale Cat bb 4x4 with the new packer installed and blowers, lubers, accumulator for around 50k. The same dealer told me a loaded new one is around 150-170k if I remember right. Bad things can happen like the plunger bearings and load arm bearings going out, but no problem if they are caught before they really do damage.


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## stonegrownllc (Jul 31, 2011)

I run a New Holland 3x4. I have absolutely no problems with this baler. I went to a demo days when they ran a BB9080 vs Massey 2170 and frankly the NH out baled it. AGCO better be worried with the new NH/CASE IH big baler thats running out in the fields this spring. Very impressive with massive amounts of capacity. Either way you wont go wrong both good balers as long as you have good dealer support.


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