# Pioneer Coupler Failure-Chinese JUNK



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I have a set of adapters to go from flat face to pioneer ends. I have these since I have skidsteers with different ends, and various attachments. My old set accidently went out with a skidsteer I sold, so I had to assemble a new setup. I went to use the aux hydraulics on a newer NH L218, and I could only get flow in one direction...I didn't have time to troubleshoot the issue so I called a mobile tech I use on occasion. He immediately knew what the problem was...

I was using my adapters on the skidsteer and my new pioneer female coupler wouldn't flow...apparently its a "poor design" and the flow of oil will actually push the ball on the coupler shut blocking off the flow. The coupler did work on my old L785 skidsteer probably due to the fact that that machine is from the early 90's and has very little aux flow.

The female pioneer end is basically junk right out of the bag. The tech said he has seen this several times so far. So apparently there is a company out there, probably in China that is creating junk couplers. Nice to know....

.FYI for you PA folks this end was purchased from Paul B's in Ephrata...

Done with my rant now...


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up. Reminds me I need to get a set of flat face couplers for a grapple I picked up that has no ends on the hoses.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

That problem is common even with good couplers. We have some implements with the cone/ pin tips that give trouble in some tractors. One set of ball tips gives me trouble on my rear blade, it will lock itself right up with pressure trapped in the lines. Very annoying.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Slow,

I looked at my coupler and it is a "Safeway" brand..what exactly is the issue? Is it that a different brand male coupler doesn't open the female enough?

I am confused as to if the issue is with the actual coupler itself or how the coupler mates with other brand couplers.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

About anything that comes from China is crap, period.

Was running the processor yesterday and since some of the logs are flat on the ground had to use the log tongs to grab em.

I used to have a good blue set, not sure who made em, but they disappeared 

Replaced em with a set from Northern Tool, complete and total steaming mound of crap. The old ones a guy could set em by hand and they'd stick, these pieces of crap I got so tired of trying to get em to grab and the resulting walking back and forth I grabbed a three pound hammer and started beating the tips into the logs, by the end of the day the three pound hammer got retired and a 10lb sledge replaced it, even then had em pop loose a few times.

Gonna write a review for em on Northern, gonna start like, Is your family doctor nagging you to get more exercise? Then these are the tongs for you.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Safeway is a US company

http://www.safewayhyd.com/


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

True, but they could easily be importing product into the U.S. I highly doubt they manufacture everything here. Maybe they do, but I doubt it...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So the night before I went to plow snow last week, I thought it would be good to get the plow mounted on the tractor and make sure everything was ready. Flat face couplers here. One hose "click" OK good to go. The second hose WOULD NOT attach. I put all 220lbs of me on it and pushed down. Still no go. I look down and the rubber o ring in a BRAND NEW fitting was sticking out of the male end of the coupler. JUNK!!!! 
Now what? It's 8pm, pitch black, 20 degrees and snow coming in the early am hours. 50k in equipment rendered helpless by a Chinese o ring in a probably Chinese coupler. 
Had to track down a buddy of mine with a few old ball type couplers. He gave me a M/F set and I was able to plow. 
He said flat face couplers go belly up with no warning and advised me to have a spare set on hand. 
On another related thought: I wish someone would make the tractors couplers with little relief valves on them to make loader attachments a little easier to attach.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

The new skidsteers have a relief built into the couple housing, its really sweet. The coupler housing has the two pressure lines and a case drain line. If you push on the entire coupling it slides back into the housing about 1/4" and pressure relieves. The oil is dumped into the case drain line. It works real well.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have seen that listed as an option on some newer equipment.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Well folks, with all the new fancy hydraulics on these newer machines, you better get the case drain setups because they have "anti-cavitation " reliefs and keep return oul pressure in the lines at all times. This really makes flat face couplers hard to connect. The units with the lever to couple and un couple work great. The old school hummers... yeah..not good.
This is what helps to ruin the flat face orings on the nipple ends. If your machine has closed center load sensing hydraulics you will probably see this issue sooner. 
It makes for great feedback and response in you controls but is hard on swaps of attachments.
I had a pile of fun with this issue when I worked for Woods Equipment Company in the R&D department years ago.


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## azmike (Jan 4, 2015)

We have had good luck ordering line and fittings from Surplus Center in Lincoln Neb. I don't care where they come from as long as they function OK. We built a complete hydraulic powered lead shot recovery machine with fittings/motors/lines etc. from Surplus Center.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

I hate to tell you boys. Quite a bit of of the 'Made in America' components use modified Chinese fittings. Cheaper to order and less production time. It could be something as simple as a 90 degree male/male that we mill one male off and put a counterbore to braze with tubing. A lot of the times its using the existing fitting and adding a counterbore or making it larger. There are USA made couplers I won't even touch.

As far as O-Rings, that $10 name brand O-Ring is usually a rebranded package. O-Rings take a lot of abuse believe it or not. Common failures are because of temperature, friction, pressure, break down caused by oil chemical makeup, or not properly lubed. It's a fact of life you will have to replace seals. If you're having so much trouble you do have options. Most installs use the least expensive o-ring rated for the job. Sometimes when you use a different oil than what was designed for the component. Which is why there is some truth to the HyGard stories you hear. The beauty of this is you can always put a differnt o-ring in place if it's a leaky problem. For example say a nitrile (buna) is leaky, try a viton (DuPont) or vice versa.

The advantages of the flat face is oil doesn't dribble all over when disconnected and they tend to stay cleaner. That's where the advantage stops lol. The quick couplers are nicer since you can bust the ball and splatter oil all over yourself 

In the end Hydraulic Couplers, no matter the style, will eventually give out. It is good advice to have backups or an adjustable wrench in the box. I've had to release pressure just by backing a hose off a hair.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Should add Pioneer is under Parker. Global means Global lol.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

The advantages of the flat face is oil doesn't dribble all over when disconnected and they tend to stay cleaner. That's where the advantage stops lol. The quick couplers are nicer since you can bust the ball and splatter oil all over yourself 

I shut the tractor down, cycle hydraulis control, and the disconnect. Works great, no problem. Wait, temperature changed..


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm getting convinced the solution to those damn flat face couplers are to install standard pioneers and the hell with em.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Place I worked decided that the flat face were the thing when they first came out. A few hundred couplers on new equipment in a year, plus any old coupler got changed to flat face if it was replaced. Whole bunch of money spent on the latest and greatest. Unfortunately the last several styles of "latest and greatest" were still in the fleet and personally I never could see any advantage over a standard Pioneer. Some more stuff to put on the service truck and if you didn't have the right size it had to be converted back to something that you could find, beings not many places carried flat face yet.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

I picked up a set of flat face couplers today from a local hydraulic shop. They are stamped STUCCHI and ITALY. Are they any good? They installed and worked fine. $44 for the female and $24 for the male.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mlappin said:


> About anything that comes from China is crap, period.
> 
> Was running the processor yesterday and since some of the logs are flat on the ground had to use the log tongs to grab em.
> 
> ...


From Northern Tool:

Slips more than grabs
February 21, 2017

mlappin 
from North Liberty, In
(read all my reviews)

If your family doctor is after you to get more exercise then this is the product for you. I now have flat feet from walking from the tree to the winch control then back to the tree to rehook em then back to the winch control, rinse and repeat. 
I bought these to replace a set that was "lost". I spent more time re hooking them than pulling. Tried a 3lb maul at first, just skip that and goto at least a 8lb sledge then they might stick the first time.
When they finally do grab they work very well, would rate much higher if the finally was on the first try.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

paoutdoorsman said:


> I picked up a set of flat face couplers today from a local hydraulic shop. They are stamped STUCCHI and ITALY. Are they any good? They installed and worked fine. $44 for the female and $24 for the male.


Sorry do not know the quality of this brand. Just wanted to comment on the cost of the female coupler. Would like to find the genius who decided that putting one male and one female on the implement was best. It is aggravating to have to buy a female every time you need couplers for a new attachment. Not a big deal, but I have several attachments for the skid steer and each one could have been a little less expensive. Money wasted for no good reason.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

The reason for the alternate pairing is quicker hookups and direction never changes.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

BWfarms said:


> The reason for the alternate pairing is quicker hookups and direction never changes.


That is a reason, just not a good one. Don't see why it is any quicker and a couple of zip ties solve direction changes. Plus I have several attachments that I had to swap couplers to get flow direction I desired. Would have been quicker and easier to swap hose connection and label.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

But once connected correctly, cant ever connect backwards.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

JMT said:


> That is a reason, just not a good one. Don't see why it is any quicker and a couple of zip ties solve direction changes. Plus I have several attachments that I had to swap couplers to get flow direction I desired. Would have been quicker and easier to swap hose connection and label.


I did the same thing. 2 springs ago bought colored cable ties and color coded every tractor outlet and equipment hydraulic hoses. So much quicker hooking up now and direction is always the same.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

IH 1586 said:


> I did the same thing. 2 springs ago bought colored cable ties and color coded every tractor outlet and equipment hydraulic hoses. So much quicker hooking up now and direction is always the same.


I just spray paint the connectors on one side...

Later! OL J R


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