# Is it possible to have too powerful of a tractor?



## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

I bought a John Deere 8440 tractor 4x4. I also bought a square baler 570 new holland and a kuhn 902 disc mower. I heard someone say that my tractor is too powerful for those machines and that I would have to buy a smaller tractor so as to not damage the two units. Now I don't want to go ahead on making another purchase for a tractor if the one I own can do the job. The kuhn and the new holland baler are each 20 feet long, so they are not necessarily small machines. Can anyone help out? Has anyone done this before?


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

If you are serious, and I suspect that you aren't, no it won't work.
215 hp for a small square is a little excessive. Never mind the 1000 pto.
This post doesn't pass the smell test for me.....
Welcome to HT


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not sure about a Kuhn, but I suspect some of the gearbox problems people had on NH discbines was caused by too much horsepower and not having to shift down in the tough stuff as they could just power thru it instead of shifting down.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Lostin55 said:


> If you are serious, and I suspect that you aren't, no it won't work.
> 215 hp for a small square is a little excessive. Never mind the 1000 pto.
> This post doesn't pass the smell test for me.....
> Welcome to HT


Oh I don't know, we've had our 2255 Oliver on a small square baler in a pinch, unless you specifically ask for a 150hp pump, rebuilt Cat 3208 pumps are all set at 210hp.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

And the bit about the 540 / 1000 pto?


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> If you are serious, and I suspect that you aren't, no it won't work.
> 215 hp for a small square is a little excessive. Never mind the 1000 pto.
> This post doesn't pass the smell test for me.....
> Welcome to HT


I do. Unfortunately I am not an expert on tractors and machinery of any sort. I thought as far as tractors went "bigger is better", but it seems like this tractor is indeed too powerful. I will have to go ahead and buy a smaller tractor with less hp and pto. I really don't want to damage the two units.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

We run a 4440 on the inline Hesston and I feel like I wouldn't want any more hp. I would be afraid of tearing something up.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Oliver 2255's came with 540/1000.

It's possible to get adapters to go from the large 1000rpm spline to the small, we use one on one of our four wheel drives that runs the planter, use the PTO pump to run the blower.

Not sure about getting a 1000rpm to 540, we did have a 540rpm grain cart we changed PTO yokes on so we could run it off tractors that only had 1000RPM PTO's, just have to beat it into the help to NEVER run the tractor over half throttle.


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> If you are serious, and I suspect that you aren't, no it won't work.
> 215 hp for a small square is a little excessive. Never mind the 1000 pto.
> This post doesn't pass the smell test for me.....
> Welcome to HT


How much pto and hp would you recommend for me to buy?


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Not sure about a Kuhn, but I suspect some of the gearbox problems people had on NH discbines was caused by too much horsepower and not having to shift down in the tough stuff as they could just power thru it instead of shifting down.


Thanks for your input


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IMHO a non stuck, correctly adjusted slip clutch will limit damage from too high HP tractor.


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Oliver 2255's came with 540/1000.
> 
> It's possible to get adapters to go from the large 1000rpm spline to the small, we use one on one of our four wheel drives that runs the planter, use the PTO pump to run the blower.
> 
> Not sure about getting a 1000rpm to 540, we did have a 540rpm grain cart we changed PTO yokes on so we could run it off tractors that only had 1000RPM PTO's, just have to beat it into the help to NEVER run the tractor over half throttle.


How much pto and hp would you recommend as far as a tractor go?


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> IMHO a non stuck, correctly adjusted slip clutch will limit damage from too high HP tractor.


Its a good idea. Although I really do not wish to run a risk. I will most likely have to make another purchase : (


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Oliver 2255's came with 540/1000.
> It's possible to get adapters to go from the large 1000rpm spline to the small, we use one on one of our four wheel drives that runs the planter, use the PTO pump to run the blower.
> Not sure about getting a 1000rpm to 540, we did have a 540rpm grain cart we changed PTO yokes on so we could run it off tractors that only had 1000RPM PTO's, just have to beat it into the help to NEVER run the ytractor over half throttle.


Sorry, I meant the 8440, as it only came with the 1000 pto.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I would think that something in the 135 to 145 range, with the right transmission, at least two hydraulic outlets, a 540/1000 pto should work fine.


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

Lostin55 said:


> I would think that something in the 135 to 145 range, with the right transmission, at least two hydraulic outlets, a 540/1000 pto should work fine.


Thanks. Will make it work somehow.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Or even something around 100 hp could compliment the 8440 very nicely.....what ever you find the best deal on would work.

Regards, Mike


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## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

90 to 125 horse power will work for most standard hay equipment.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Whoa.....is that a articulated tractor?.....Holy smokes....if it is, yes it is way too big for a baler.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Exactly my point!!!


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I would say you would be fine with 75 PTO HP (+/-) I would not hesitate to run either machine with my Ford 5610 (62 PTO HP), but a little heavier tractor on the disc mower might help with stability.

JMHO, HTH, Dave


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I wouldn't even consider running a small square baler and similar size hay equipment with that tractor. With a properly working slip clutch the actual horsepower wouldn't concern me as much but the fact that it is 1000 rpm only you might accidentally run the rpm too high or the slip clutch might not be working correct and sooner or later your going to tear something up. The other big problem is just the massive size of an articulated tractor which would be very cumbersome with small hay equipment. If the tractor has dual you would probably be running over the windrow that you would be trying to bale.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

A tractor in the 100 hp size range would be a nice size. I wouldn't be afraid of something with a little more hp though....say up to 130-140hp. I run a small square baler with a JD 7510 and it works very well. Anything from 80hp on up to 130-140 with 540 pto should work well for you.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

carroyo49 said:


> How much pto and hp would you recommend as far as a tractor go?


Running my 13 foot discbine with a White 2-110, supposedly 110hp stock, previous owner claims it had a little better than 125hp on the dyno, run a BR740A Silage Special with another White 2-110. Have ran the Silage Special with an Oliver 1600, around 65-70 hp on that one, would run out of poop if baling good hay on hills.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

carroyo49 said:


> I do. Unfortunately I am not an expert on tractors and machinery of any sort. I thought as far as tractors went "bigger is better", but it seems like this tractor is indeed too powerful. I will have to go ahead and buy a smaller tractor with less hp and pto. I really don't want to damage the two units.


Why would you need a 8440,are you doing some heavy tillage or just haying ?Trade it off for a tractor better suited for the job.more things to worry about then just to much HP.

8440 would be a fuel hog compared to what you would need.

And it is a pretty heavy tractor and could have compaction issues.

Articulated would suck with a baler or cutter trying to make turns also.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Like I posted in the baler thread I don't think I would use that tractor for any kind of baler. Big, small, round. If it has duals on it would run over windrows while baling with the 570. If it was a dealer that sold him that package he needs to never go back there as they should have talked him out of that purchase. To bad he didn't visit haytalk first. Problem is those big fwd JD tractors can be had for the same price as a 100 hp. So I can see a person get tempted to buy one...... But for baling?


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I to would be interested in knowing how you came about having a articulated tractor to mow and bale with. To handle most equipment to mow and bale 100-150 hp. would be enough and usually the mower is the only piece that requires the most if you are doing small squares. You can get an adapter to take the 1000 shaft down to 540 but I don't recommend that. Sure would be interesting to watch that tractor do that work though.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

this feels like a Don Quixote exercise. Maneuverability, or lack thereof, lack of fuel economy due to mismatch of power available to need, vision (ability to see what you are doing) hasn't been mentioned but I like the smallest machine that has the power and weight to do the job and always preferred 2wd to 4 if traction was not an issue. I can see way more on my 2wd 60hp tractor than on my 4wd 115hp tractor. It's a pain to hook up to an implement solo because it is near impossible to see the eye of the draw bar. Can't imagine that exercise with an articulated machine. Had a senior moment (actually a case of the extreme tireds) at the end of last season and accidentally cut my pto on with the discbine folded in transport mode. the 1409 needs about 70-75 pto hp. I was shoving it 100. you know what a drive shaft looks like when one end won't move and the other end is over powered? it ain't pretty. Now plunk 175 pto hp at twice the required rpms into that story and the whole discbine would probably have taken flight.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> IMHO a non stuck, correctly adjusted slip clutch will limit damage from too high HP tractor.


I agree, but I bet most people don't burnish and adjust their slip clutches very often. (I've been guilty of that myself---"Oh, I'll get to it next week"--Yeah, right!)

Ralph


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I have used a 4wd on a big baler. It worked but you had to turn wide. You can make anything work if you need to in a pinch.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

deerezilla said:


> I have used a 4wd on a big baler. It worked but you had to turn wide. You can make anything work if you need to in a pinch.


I might be temped in a 'pinch', but not day in and day out, way too big of a tractor for at least MY hay operation.

IMHO, every piece of equipment has to have a 'weak point' back up. Eg shear bolt, then slip clutch and/or runs out of power as an example. As others have pointed out, if the first weak point fails, with so much power you are going to have some catastrophic failure somewhere else along the system and I wouldn't want to pay the bill on that repair.

Larry


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Oliver 2255's came with 540/1000.
> 
> It's possible to get adapters to go from the large 1000rpm spline to the small, we use one on one of our four wheel drives that runs the planter, use the PTO pump to run the blower.
> 
> Not sure about getting a 1000rpm to 540, we did have a 540rpm grain cart we changed PTO yokes on so we could run it off tractors that only had 1000RPM PTO's, just have to beat it into the help to NEVER run the tractor over half throttle.


I was thinking about changing pto yokes. But not sure if it will do worse than good


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

carroyo49 said:


> I was thinking about changing pto yokes. But not sure if it will do worse than good


Save your money and listen to some of the advise givin and get a tractor more suited for the job!


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

2wd 4255 would be my choice. That is if course making sure that slip clutch is right. I could never show my face again if I was to be seen with a small square behind that 4wd machine. A 4255 will run any and all hay equipment well except for large square. Downside is it will most likely cost double what you paid for the 8440


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Sell the 8440 and maybe purchase a couple of older tractors, the color maybe predominately rust colored with no cab. As long as your baler is dependable, the tractors could be inter-changeable in a pinch. Then as you make money, up-grade tractors (maybe cab, with A/C even).

There are folks on HT that have been weaned on old tractors with no cabs (me included) and there are some here that are still with older (yet dependable) tractors (with and without cabs). If you get a tractor with no cab, just google Luke's sunshade would be a recommendation however (this sunshade works on any color tractor is my understanding).

Now if you decide on an older tractor, I suggest you post model/features here on HT, BEFORE you buy it. The folks on here will tell you the positives and negatives of most models, no matter what the color is (or at least what to look out for). IMHO

Larry


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

hillside hay said:


> 2wd 4255 would be my choice. That is if course making sure that slip clutch is right. I could never show my face again if I was to be seen with a small square behind that 4wd machine. A 4255 will run any and all hay equipment well except for large square. Downside is it will most likely cost double what you paid for the 8440


Hillside, I would take a cherry 2wd 4255 or even a 4055 any day over anything you can buy today, especially if they put a todays version of ac in the cab. did the upper end of the 55s have the same wiring demons as the 2755?


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## carroyo49 (Dec 26, 2016)

r82230 said:


> Sell the 8440 and maybe purchase a couple of older tractors, the color maybe predominately rust colored with no cab. As long as your baler is dependable, the tractors could be inter-changeable in a pinch. Then as you make money, up-grade tractors (maybe cab, with A/C even).
> 
> There are folks on HT that have been weaned on old tractors with no cabs (me included) and there are some here that are still with older (yet dependable) tractors (with and without cabs). If you get a tractor with no cab, just google Luke's sunshade would be a recommendation however (this sunshade works on any color tractor is my understanding).
> 
> ...


I am currently looking at a john deere 3040 4x4, 90 hp, 540 pto. Do you think this will be enough for the baler and mower?


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Hayman1 said:


> Hillside, I would take a cherry 2wd 4255 or even a 4055 any day over anything you can buy today, especially if they put a todays version of ac in the cab. did the upper end of the 55s have the same wiring demons as the 2755?


 I haven't experienced any electrical issues. A few hydraulic leaks here and there. AC not great but I don't use it on account of my sinuses.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

carroyo49 said:


> I am currently looking at a john deere 3040 4x4, 90 hp, 540 pto. Do you think this will be enough for the baler and mower?


 check the clutch under load. PTO under load. Hi/lol operation. The radiators were prone to rotting out on bottom as cleaning is a little difficult. Steering pump lines and hydraulic line under seat can be prone to leaks. Although essentially the same the 2940 seems to be able to take more abuse.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Hayman1 said:


> Hillside, I would take a cherry 2wd 4255 or even a 4055 any day over anything you can buy today, especially if they put a todays version of ac in the cab. did the upper end of the 55s have the same wiring demons as the 2755?


JD 55 series rowcrop tractors only resemblance to their Mannheim cousins is green & yellow paint & JD name. My '91 4255 has over 11,500 hrs on original engine,power train,hyd & electrical system. JD Mannheim cab tractors wiring schematics remind me of a "spider web" & their printed circuit board is a JOKE!!!!!!!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> JD 55 series rowcrop tractors only resemblance to their Mannheim cousins is green & yellow paint & JD name. My '91 4255 has over 11,500 hrs on original engine,power train,hyd & electrical system. JD Mannheim cab tractors wiring schematics remind me of a "spider web" & their printed circuit board is a JOKE!!!!!!!


Jim, couldn't have said it better!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

carroyo49 said:


> I am currently looking at a john deere 3040 4x4, 90 hp, 540 pto. Do you think this will be enough for the baler and mower?


IMHO, the hp is in the sweet spot between 70-120 HP tractors, that seem to fit a lot of haying operations.

As far as the tractor, well IDK much about that model, I would suggest you post a little more info regarding: price, hours, options (tranny, FEL, cab, hydraulics, etc.) and possible condition and give the HT folks a little time to chime in with some opinions.

I believe you will be happier with more speeds in a tranny than less (or a variable speed :wub, at least in MY area anyhow.

Larry


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

I'm baling with an 8 speed and only 50 hp. a bigger horse would be nice but regardless I'm sure I would always want that one more gear in between out of power/plugged up and I wish I could go a bit faster.


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