# Need heavier baler- New Holland or Vermeer?



## GerardJV (Jan 19, 2016)

I,m looking to replace my New Holland 790 net-wrap baler with a new Vermeer. The New Holland could bale at speed upwards of 10 mph with bales remaining uniform. I find the NH baler too light- the Vermeer looks to be a heavier baler. Just wondering how others' experiences with the Vermeer have been. Thanks.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You will find a lot of happy Vermeer customers on here. Myself included. Most people have baled a lot more and a lot longer than I. I am happy with my Rebel 5420.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Vermeer is the heaviest baler built,hands down.Park it side by side with any baler and you will be amazed in the difference.I typically bale 9-12 mph and mine has held up well.

Then again some guys can destroy anything.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My nephew regularly bales at 12 mph(50 + 4x5.5 bales per hr) with a lighter weight JD 469 rd baler. IMHO if lighter weight baler keeps baling hay without major breakdowns all that means to me is less soil compaction to accomplish the same task!!!!! :huh:


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good point Jim....how about the NH 540 rollabelt......not as heavy, but as jim aluded to....been pleased with mine so far, but only about 1k bales into it.......
Welcome to haytalk Gerard.....


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## timberjackrob (Feb 16, 2015)

Vermeer is heavy made baler we love our 504n.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm impressed with the amount of speed you all bale at. About the only thing I bale at 8 to 10mph is straw and new alfalfa the first few years. Seems we've got moles that make fields rough and badger holes are even worse.

Vermeer gets my vote as the most well built baler, but its all I've ever run. I've looked the neighbors JD over pretty good and it looks well built as well. I really like the rubber mounted teeth in a Vermeer that I don't think I'd ever switch brands though.


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## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

I have had a Vermeer 664 Rancher. Great baler. I had a John Deere 535 before. I traded up to the Vermeer to get a baler with net wrap, the old Deere was only twine. I never get up to 8 or 10 mph. Fastest I've gone was maybe 7 mph or so with lighting in the sky but it took that great. The Vermeer is much heavier built and had only minimal troubles in the 2500 bales over the 4 seasons I've had the baler.


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## foreman (Nov 26, 2015)

Bought a vermeer 504 silage pro this spring put about 1000 bales on it and all i can say is that it is build like a TANK! Plus it was about 30k cheaper than a new deere plus the deere dealership by us dosnt have great service. Only one problem so far, the baler we got has a set of knives in it and to bale straw you have to drop the knives out, only problem is that they wont drop. Every function on the baler is all controlled by the moniter so its either electrical or the dealer says the tractor runing it doesnt have enough hydraulic power(ran it all season on a jd 4250). Next season we will put it on the jd 7520 and see if it works. Other than that I would definetly go with a vermeer.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

i am also impressed with the speed. what do those 4x5 bales weigh


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

hay rake said:


> i am also impressed with the speed. what do those 4x5 bales weigh


I just bought 150 rd bales of Coastal baled by a JD 469 that the one load of 17 I had weighed came in at 1220#s each but they were a little over 66'' tall.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> My nephew regularly bales at 12 mph(50 + 4x5.5 bales per hr) with a lighter weight JD 469 rd baler. IMHO if lighter weight baler keeps baling hay without major breakdowns all that means to me is less soil compaction to accomplish the same task!!!!! :huh:


i relate something that is made heavier as stronger and what is made lighter as cheaper built.IMHO

I don't worry about campaction with my heavier built baler one bit and have even baled threw water.With the big flotation tires the tractor would cause more compaction PSI then the baler anyway.

Im not sure what the weight difference is but a 1000 lbs of iron isn't going to cause a measurable difference in compaction


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If heavier was the only criteria to make something stronger, then air planes would never get off the ground. Now, perception is something all together different. Many of you have been on this forum for many years, but how often have you heard of any problems with structure on any brand of baler. I think every brand mentioned on this forum has had issues of one kind or another, they are machines after all, built by man and all brands will have their issues. So which brand do I think is the best? The one you can get the best service from the dealer. You can have the best product on the market, but when, not if, a problem arises where can you get the problem resolved quickly will determine if in fact it is the best for your situation.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> i relate something that is made heavier as stronger and what is made lighter as cheaper built.IMHO
> 
> I don't worry about campaction with my heavier built baler one bit and have even baled threw water.With the big flotation tires the tractor would cause more compaction PSI then the baler anyway.
> 
> Im not sure what the weight difference is but a 1000 lbs of iron isn't going to cause a measurable difference in compaction


Vermeer 604N

Weight (Fully Optioned)
7960 lbs
3610.6 kg

JD 469 SS 5,800 lb

I think extra 2160 #s will cause more soil compaction even with super hi-flotation tires especially when traveling through water not to mention the extra fuel tractor will burn. Also Vermeer advertises 1500 # tongue weight & I saw no tongue weight listed on JD spec's.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> Vermeer 604N
> 
> Weight (Fully Optioned)
> 7960 lbs
> ...


May not be any tongue weight listed Jim, but you know that there is plenty....there is on my JD baler.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I've never ever heard a Vermeer baler owner complain about the baler being to heavy or causing compaction.That says a lot rite there.I can see where it could be an issue with a tractor that was borderline in HP and weight to pull it.But to say it's built to heavy is no more then a color war and grasping at straws.

On the other hand I've heard first hand from the actual owners that the sides wore threw on there JD balers that bale mostly corn stalks .

I guess I'll take the one that is made a little heavier.Each to their own I guess.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

For the vast majority of users side wear through would be their last concern. Now if the shafts are bigger diameter and the bearings are larger and the drive chains are heavier and the drive train is a category bigger, then you have something that should be important for owners to consider.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> I guess I'll take the one that is made a little heavier.Each to their own I guess.


I think you've made that perfectly clear in the past on your choosing another rd baler over JD. The way you criticize and talk about how inferior JD rd balers are it surprises that you'll agree that a JD baler will stay together long enough baling stalks to wear holes in the sidewalls of bale chamber. :huh: You're being naive to think that 2000+ #s(1 ton+) won't cause more soil compaction when people comment about how bad fluid filled tires are for soil compaction. Oh well we agree to disagree RIGHT  My JD baler that has baled mostly grass but quite a few stalk bales has over 22,000 bales on monitor with no holes in sidewalls.


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I think you've made that perfectly clear in the past on your choosing another rd baler over JD. The way you criticize and talk about how inferior JD rd balers are it surprises that you'll agree that a JD baler will stay together long enough baling stalks to wear holes in the sidewalls of bale chamber. :huh: You're being naive to think that 2000+ #s(1 ton+) won't cause more soil compaction when people comment about how bad fluid filled tires are for soil compaction. Oh well we agree to disagree RIGHT  My JD baler that has baled mostly grass but quite a few stalk bales has over 22,000 bales on monitor with no holes in sidewalls.


For this particular thread the person is in need of a heavier baler. Vermeer is probably the way to go for this person.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> I think you've made that perfectly clear in the past on your choosing another rd baler over JD. The way you criticize and talk about how inferior JD rd balers are it surprises that you'll agree that a JD baler will stay together long enough baling stalks to wear holes in the sidewalls of bale chamber. :huh: You're being naive to think that 2000+ #s(1 ton+) won't cause more soil compaction when people comment about how bad fluid filled tires are for soil compaction. Oh well we agree to disagree RIGHT  My JD baler that has baled mostly grass but quite a few stalk bales has over 22,000 bales on monitor with no holes in sidewalls.


You are confusing yourself here. The person you are referencing is not swmnhay. I know who you are referring to. You may want to refresh your memory by reading old posts to find out which user it is.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> I think you've made that perfectly clear in the past on your choosing another rd baler over JD. The way you criticize and talk about how inferior JD rd balers are it surprises that you'll agree that a JD baler will stay together long enough baling stalks to wear holes in the sidewalls of bale chamber. :huh: You're being naive to think that 2000+ #s(1 ton+) won't cause more soil compaction when people comment about how bad fluid filled tires are for soil compaction. Oh well we agree to disagree RIGHT  My JD baler that has baled mostly grass but quite a few stalk bales has over 22,000 bales on monitor with no holes in sidewalls.


No one has disputed that your JD's work for you. Quite well.

Other people, in different climates, conditions, and crops have other preferences. Which work quite well for them.

Trying to start a peeing contest again by urinating into the wind only leaves one loser and no winners.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

I've often wondered, by reading all posts, how farmers rate an implement/tractor good or bad. If no breaky good, if breaky bad.

How do these break? Are they used beyond their intended capability? if so what is their capability?. Manufacturers MUST have specs by which they build them e.g. How fast it can be pulled, how heavy a bump can it take etc. and most of all are these specs passed onto the buyer. I can't believe how many excuses are made on behalf of these mftrs to justify their performance, if they don't perform move on and don't be colour blind (unless you have to be, as no other make/dealer around) You'll see how quickly they'd be improved. Car mftrs wouldn't stay in business if they supplied such poor products. So I can only deduce that most of these broken down implements/machinery are so because made to work beyond their capability and we must live with the consequences.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> No one has disputed that your JD's work for you. Quite well.
> 
> Other people, in different climates, conditions, and crops have other preferences. Which work quite well for them.
> 
> Trying to start a peeing contest again by urinating into the wind only leaves one loser and no winners.


No urinating contest on my part just stating 2000+ more #s causes more soil compaction. I could care less who agrees with me. If you think a ton extra weight doesn't compact soil more that's fine with me! :mellow:


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Too much yellow vs green, green vs yellow . IMHO not much of it matters cause seriously all 3 of the balers i looked at ( NH 560, JD 569, Vermeer 605N) i would be happy to have in my fields. The first baler i owned was a MF 560, and all since then every baler i owned was better than the one before it. One exception was the JD 500, what a piece of crap they were.

When i got my 1st round baler, i thought i won the lottery, same when i bought my first discbine. Newer tractors with great transmissions and super cabs, again i feel blessed.

Many years ago my late, great uncle jumped in a combine with me and road stayed for a couple hrs. near the end of that time i asked him how what we just did compared to, when he was younger. He said i put more grain in the bin in 2 hrs then they could do with 5 men in a day with horses.

Most every piece of iron we can buy today is great. Some may last longer, break down less, features we like better, but face it guys and gals we are spoiled compared to our ancestors.

I like to hear comments from those that have owned both, or run both side by side in the same field. Those guys that are color blind, well......


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

There's light yrs of difference between JD's 1st attempt of building a rd baler which was a model 500 vs the later models. IMHO JD 500 rd baler was good material for a trot line weight.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

carcajou said:


> Too much yellow vs green, green vs yellow . IMHO not much of it matters cause seriously all 3 of the balers i looked at ( NH 560, JD 569, Vermeer 605N) i would be happy to have in my fields. The first baler i owned was a MF 560, and all since then every baler i owned was better than the one before it. One exception was the JD 500, what a piece of crap they were.
> When i got my 1st round baler, i thought i won the lottery, same when i bought my first discbine. Newer tractors with great transmissions and super cabs, again i feel blessed.
> 
> Many years ago my late, great uncle jumped in a combine with me and road stayed for a couple hrs. near the end of that time i asked him how what we just did compared to, when he was younger. He said i put more grain in the bin in 2 hrs then they could do with 5 men in a day with horses.
> ...


 Well said.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> There's light yrs of difference between JD's 1st attempt of building a rd baler which was a model 500 vs the later models. IMHO JD 500 rd baler was good material for a trot line weight.


now that must be on helluva Trot line.....


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

I've seen stuff that EVERYBODY thinks is pure junk work great for some people (in certain situations) and I've knows some folks that can break or tear up ANYTHING...

A lot of it comes down to how it's run and how it's being used, and in what crop/conditions...

Kinda like that guy on youtube that does all the hay videos... onelonelyfarmer or something like that?? Is there NOTHING that guy can't tear up or is happy with?? LOL

Later! OL J R


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> No urinating contest on my part just stating 2000+ more #s causes more soil compaction. I could care less who agrees with me. If you think a ton extra weight doesn't compact soil more that's fine with me! :mellow:


If one Vermeer owner came forward and said he had issues with compaction from 2000 extra lbs of baler weight it would add some credibility to your statement.Youhave always made yourself clear that you prefer JD which is fine. But a baler with the large tires isn't causing much for compaction there is less PSI on the baler tires then there is on the rear tires of the tractor.

My old JD 510 with narrow tires would cause more compaction then a heavier baler with flotation tires on it.It would sink in low land meadows where a fully loaded 605 M,SM,or N will float over the soft areas.

There are a lot of other things in the field cause more compaction then the baler like trailers ,semis and loaders.
Now if you ran a Vermeer baler with 14L rubber instead of the large flotation tires I would say there would be an issue with the extra 2000 lbs.I ran a 605 SJ and a XL with 14L tires and yes the weight was a issue in wet ground there fore Vermeer went with larger tires as a option starting with the M balers.Problem solved.Then the other brands offered float tires a few yrs later,imagine that.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

What was 1st yr that Vermeer M series had option for larger flotation tires?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Guys around here have been running high floatation tires for 12-15? years in peanut fields......I'd just as soon not do nuts so I didn't opt for high float tires. Tire life seems to be a problem when traveling on hard roads.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

The thing I wouldn't like about hi-flotation tires besides the cost is if one got ruined on Sat afternoon or Sunday one would probably be not baling until Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I considered that as well. The dealer i purchased the baler from also owns a tire shop. I asked him to make me up a set of spares with rims. The widest highway truck tires he can get of the same diameter and hopefully used tires to keep the cost down. That way if i want to road the baler any distance i have that option, as well as an emergency spare for the field.

When i demo'd the baler last fall i noticed the baler sure pulled nice with these larger tires, a lot less bouncing in the field and at 1800 lbs heavier than a 567 it is a must regardless.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> What was 1st yr that Vermeer M series had option for larger flotation tires?


When ever the M came out,I think it was 2005.IDK if it was an option or standard eq but I've never seen a 605 M,SM or N with anything but the large tires.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

thats why you keep spares


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

I have a 2014 605 Super M Vermeer. I have baled a few more than 15,000 bales through it and I am very pleased. I don't plan on getting a new one in the immediate future.

My competition had a 569 in the JD shop one day and I noticed that the shafts, bearings, and pickup are much lighter than the Vermeer.


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