# Crazy thought for hay additives



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Long time ago, I read a thread here on HT about a hay preservative that allegedly added an "apple flavor" to presumably cover the smell of the hay preservative.

Got me to thinking.

What if, when a liquid hay preservative system WASNT being used, one could add an economical flavor additive to make hay more tasty, or even more nutritious? Like a diluted apple flavoring?

Maybe something like this is already available, I dont know.

I just keep looking back at my Harvest tec mounted on the baler thinking "is there some other use for this"?

In other words, drums of liquid with a taste improver and maybe nutrition booster for horses? Just for the record: I realize the primary goal should be to make palatable hay FIRST, but what about some of the bales that didn't turn out perfect? Not high moisture or dusty hay, but hay that saw a little rain, then dried properly or grasses horses might not otherwise devour?

OK,,,, flame suit zipped, steel toe shoes with metatarsul protectors tied, chain saw chaps buckled, forestry helmet on with flip down eye protectors and hearing protectors over the ears.

Again, please ignore if this product is already made.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Sounds like a wonderful way for people to knowingly pass off piss poor hay as “good quality”


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Exactly what I expected you to say
What about average hay? Not "piss poor" hay?
What about additives to make horses healthier?

You could market the hay as having those additives in a "value added" marketing strategy? Possibly get more per bale?


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

So you are thinking about like spraying molasses on the hay, maybe apple cider vinegar it would help flavor and a little preservative also. Dont they treat low quality feed with anhydrous ammonia to raise the protein?


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

It's a good idea for we honest folks, but you just KNOW it'll be bastardized by the "other" guys. You'll always hear it from the horsey folks: "How do I know this isn't garbage hay? You're just hiding bad hay and it's fake! I'm not paying this much!" And on and on......

I don't have a solution for this. But I like the idea. If this was a world where everybody had to be honest just like everybody has no choice but to breathe, it would be great.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ox76 said:


> It's a good idea for we honest folks, but you just KNOW it'll be bastardized by the "other" guys. You'll always hear it from the horsey folks: "How do I know this isn't garbage hay? You're just hiding bad hay and it's fake! I'm not paying this much!" And on and on......
> 
> I don't have a solution for this. But I like the idea. If this was a world where everybody had to be honest just like everybody has no choice but to breathe, it would be great.


But wouldn't one be able to still see the hay, just like an untreated bale?
I'm not talking about "green paint" here to cover anything. 
It would probably be a clear additive, with a little Apple or molasses scent to it and some nutritional additives
I'm sure anyone with basic hay knowledge would be able to see if it was "piss poor" hay or some other negative problem.

With the prices of hay seemingly stuck in 1980's prices half the time, I was trying to think of ways to add value that would be appealing to the horse owner AND help the hay producer make a little more money???.
Again, always trying the best you can to first and foremost make quality hay. But what if you could get say $1 more for a small square treated with flavor and nutritional additives, but it only costs .25 cents to add to the bale if you have an existing hay applicator? Or what if you could get $10 more for a round bale with $3 of "flavor/nutrition spray" added via our occasionally used applicators?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

People have been pouring molasses on cornstalks for probably 30 years to increase consumption. It works for feeder calves but cows eat stalks regardless what's poured in them.

That being said, horses are a lot more finicky than bovines. Adding a sugar product to horse feed may only compound an already sensitive equine intestine, and lead to kidney issues like stones and UTIs? I don't know for sure, just spitballing.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Just thinking about all the “average” hay that could be improved to “good” hay for little cost...


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

stack em up said:


> People have been pouring molasses on cornstalks for probably 30 years to increase consumption. It works for feeder calves but cows eat stalks regardless what's poured in them.


Some of my OG was cut real late so the feed value is low. I've been putting about 15 lbs of dried molasses on a 1000# round bale--kinda like putting sugar on shredded wheat.

Ralph


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

I wonder what would happen to the additives when the hay goes thru its sweat? you wouldn't want to add something that contributed to mold. With horse people for some anything you would add makes them suspicious just like if you use preservative to maintain the quality of the hay, if you had to use so much because the hay was to wet and you can still smell it next spring maybe they could be a little concerned but if you use just enough on dry hay no need to be concerned. If you told the people what you put on the hay and why you did it would be a good thing just like when you take your own hay and feed it to your own cattle so they eat it. Or you just have to market it as enhanced hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So if each bale had say 1 quart, 1 gallon, 1lb of additive added to a bale, you could market the hay as having a list of 5 to 10 beneficial ingredients (vitamins, minerals, etc, plus a flavor enhancer).

The sales pitch "although bales cost more, your horses will eat the following beneficial ingredients" [follow with list of beneficial ingredients]

The flavor enhancer sales pitch could be "Although bales have more up front cost, horses will eat more and waste less, saving you money"

Bales could be marketed as "Our hay treated with DR. EQUINES delicious, nutritious hay additive"....or something like that.

But I guess the only way to prove it was treated is with a "dye" of some kind? Or a scent?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I know a co that did that plus they added a green dye to make the hay look greener.

They are no longer in business

They were buying rd bales and rebaling into sm sqrs and spraying it on then.

Think it was called Dakota Premium Hay IIRC


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

danwi said:


> I wonder what would happen to the additives when the hay goes thru its sweat? you wouldn't want to add something that contributed to mold. With horse people for some anything you would add makes them suspicious just like if you use preservative to maintain the quality of the hay, if you had to use so much because the hay was to wet and you can still smell it next spring maybe they could be a little concerned but if you use just enough on dry hay no need to be concerned. If you told the people what you put on the hay and why you did it would be a good thing just like when you take your own hay and feed it to your own cattle so they eat it. Or you just have to market it as enhanced hay.


 Couldn't agree more. Adding sugars to hay and then storing is a whole world of different to adding it to a few flakes as it's being fed to a horse. Unless you were mixing it with addative it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Anyway, I dont notice the smell of the acid after a few days.... So unless they're picking it up behind the baler I wouldn't stress..


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## ja_cain (Dec 9, 2019)

Not saying these were sprayed with a green solution, but I've seen hay from this guy that seems suspect. I actually asked him to produce the results when he was touting the alfalfa at 36%0 protein. All I heard was crickets. Lol!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Couldn't agree more. Adding sugars to hay and then storing is a whole world of different to adding it to a few flakes as it's being fed to a horse. Unless you were mixing it with addative it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> Anyway, I dont notice the smell of the acid after a few days.... So unless they're picking it up behind the baler I wouldn't stress..


That's what got me thinking, there was a preservative with an additive of apple flavoring. 
Was thinking what about an Apple flavoring without preservatives and instead, maybe some additional nutrients? For when you have dry hay with no need for preserving?
T


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I would think that spraying any kind of flavoring or additive in sufficient quantity would increase the moisture and sugars so much that it would cause the hat to be moldy.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rjmoses said:


> I would think that spraying any kind of flavoring or additive in sufficient quantity would increase the moisture and sugars so much that it would cause the hat to be moldy.
> 
> Ralph


Thought same thing..... How much water is in the average 15% moisture round bale of hay? Maybe use flavorings with no sugars?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Thought same thing..... How much water is in the average 15% moisture round bale of hay?


Ummmm, if a bale is 1000 pounds and hay is 85% DM that would be 150 pounds of water. 85% DM, 15% moisture


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So would misting the hay with a gallon of flavoring (non-sweetened/no sugar, of course) over the course of an entire 1000lb round bale create a mold problem??


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> So would misting the hay with a gallon of flavoring (non-sweetened/no sugar, of course) over the course of an entire 1000lb round bale create a mold problem??


How much "flavoring" to get the desired result? Right now, I am adding about 15 lbs of molasses to 1000 lbs of hay. BUT, the temperature is 32 degrees, so I am not worried about mold.

Ralph


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

This is a very interesting subject to be sure. I find myself intrigued with the possibilities.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rjmoses said:


> How much "flavoring" to get the desired result? Right now, I am adding about 15 lbs of molasses to 1000 lbs of hay. BUT, the temperature is 32 degrees, so I am not worried about mold.
> 
> Ralph


Thats a great question that would take trial & error. Certainly 15lbs of anything is way too much quantity of material and the previously mentioned mold issue with all the sugar.

What I was thinking about more of is a lightly applied concentrate with no sugars. A scent that gets horses interested. Say 1 gallon per round bale, that way the average applicator wouldn't have to be refilled too much and slow down baling.

1. Make customers want more hay than the next hay supplier because it's got something extra

2. Add "value" to the hay, the "vitamins/minerals/health" aspect to increase interest & sales

3. Get more use from the applicator I spent 3 grand on and a whole day installing.

So who's going on "Shark Tank" with me???


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

1 gallon per bale is still going to be ~9-10 pounds of product. Water is 8.2 pounds per gallon...


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Would need to be a very very strong scent if it was still going to be detectable after say 6 months of storage.....As I said ,and those that use it know, the acid smell is unnoticeable in a few days.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Would need to be a very very strong scent if it was still going to be detectable after say 6 months of storage.....As I said ,and those that use it know, the acid smell is unnoticeable in a few days.


Hay Diddle diddle, I got enough complaints about the smell of Crop Saver brand, I stopped using it. That stuff could really use a "cover scent" if you ask me.

Also, I bow-hunt and use cover scents and attraction scents. Just a few drops in a cotton ball stuffed in a film canister and the deer come to my stand. 
Would think a 1/2-1 gallon of concentrate in a round bale or a few ounces in a small square would do the trick for a horse standing 3 feet away? If the scent is "in the bale", wouldn't the scent be held inside until the net wrap is removed and the bale is fluffed open a bit?

I honestly don't know how strong a horses sense of smell is for this level of scent.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

I've heard of horsey folks tasting the hay to detect if acid preserver was used or not. After the smell is gone, is a taste still there? If so, does the taste stay indefinitely?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ox76 said:


> I've heard of horsey folks tasting the hay to detect if acid preserver was used or not. After the smell is gone, is a taste still there? If so, does the taste stay indefinitely?


Ox, I don't know for sure, but what really matters is will the horses eat it? What are they smelling and tasting? Ive seen horses pass up on green pretty hay for less pretty hay sometimes.

Its well known that some horse owners *think* they know what horses like to smell or eat, when their horses think differently. Thats why I thought the preservative with apple flavoring that was mentioned on HT about 2 years ago was a good idea, because it covered the smell of hay that was too damp to bale with acid!


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I don't know about adding some kind of flavor, smell or other nutrients to hay - sounds expensive and is the customer going to pay for it?

My thought is have your hay forage tested and sell it on the merits of the test.

We used buffered propionic acid this past summer by necessity and 99% of our hay is sold to horse folks (square bales). I regard the smell as smelling the same as dill pickle chips. We have no complaints with respect to the preservative and some customers, after getting dusty hay from other suppliers, like the preservative as it's somewhat a security blanket for good hay. Timothy head proves to them it's indeed Timothy (first cut) and a dill pickle chip smell tells them the hay is protected from dust and mold. The hay forage test results show them the hay is good quality hay for real vs some Craigslist "horse quality" ad that is BS.

That's our deal...

Just some thoughts....

Bill


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

JD3430 said:


> Hay Diddle diddle, I got enough complaints about the smell of Crop Saver brand, I stopped using it. That stuff could really use a "cover scent" if you ask me.
> 
> Also, I bow-hunt and use cover scents and attraction scents. Just a few drops in a cotton ball stuffed in a film canister and the deer come to my stand.
> Would think a 1/2-1 gallon of concentrate in a round bale or a few ounces in a small square would do the trick for a horse standing 3 feet away? If the scent is "in the bale", wouldn't the scent be held inside until the net wrap is removed and the bale is fluffed open a bit?
> ...


Never seen sniffer horses at an airport. :lol: Just sayin..... And if their useless owners are the ones doing the sniffing you might need more than a few drops?? :lol: :lol:


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

leeave96 said:


> I don't know about adding some kind of flavor, smell or other nutrients to hay - sounds expensive and is the customer going to pay for it?
> 
> My thought is have your hay forage tested and sell it on the merits of the test.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm, hay with "dill pickle chips" scent. Hahahaha.
Some one mentioned the phrase "enhanced hay". 
I bet a lot of horse owners would be interested in "enhanced hay". In many cases these people live for their horses. They will buy something for them IF there's a benefit for them. 
Other than of course making and storing the best hay you can, hay is just hay. With the addition of something beneficial and tasty, seems like it might work.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Sorta the same as "super sweet" or "sugar enhanced" sweet corn! You don't see sweet corn advertised as such, but try selling the old type sweet corn, that was too old if one stumbled on the way from garden to kitchen! Just saying!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ah well, as I said in the thread title, it was kind of a crazy thought....

....just wanted to find a use for the crop saver and add some value to hay.


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## Kasey (Jun 24, 2015)

What about additives that improve horse health like cannabis oil ????


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## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

danwi said:


> So you are thinking about like spraying molasses on the hay, maybe apple cider vinegar it would help flavor and a little preservative also. Dont they treat low quality feed with anhydrous ammonia to raise the protein?


Adding anhydrous NH3 was something people did in the 90's out here to utilize wheat straw as a forage for cattle. It worked pretty well kicked the N levels up to where straw at 4% CP fed like a 9-10% CP hay but the other benefit was that the NH3 increased the digestibility of the fiber significantly. It fell out of favor when N prices took off and haven't ever returned to those early to mid 90s levels. Also, you needed to get straw at somewhere under $40/T but that was also when med grass hay was bringing around $100/T here.

We tried a few methods of application --- easiest= pyramid stack and cover w/ Visqueen plastice. Other 2 = ag bag them or individual bale wrap them. The latter 2 got better treatment of the straw but had the added costs of specialized plastic. The damn cows would really go for that stuff though ---- even when it was making their eyes tear up.


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## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

There used to be some sort of enzyme stuff you could buy and treat your forages with but I can't recall what it was called. Maybe it never went into production. We had to sign a confidentiality agreement when we worked with it.

IMO - the place to do value added would be in the lower quality range of feeds. And probably not horses but ruminants instead.

EDIT - one product was called Fibrozyme and it seems that it is still being produced by Alltech to increase fiber digestibility in cattle.

A general article on mold and additives.

https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/forage/understanding-and-reducing-mold-growth-in-hay/


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