# Ideal Horse Hay



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

According to this Progressive Forage Grower writer.

Regards, Mike

http://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-types/alfalfa/what-is-the-ideal-hay-for-horses


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Good reading, Thanks!!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Horses in the wild eat a variety of grasses, usually poorer quality stuff. They will typically travel 20 miles a day, grazing about 20 hours.

My thought is that most colic cases occur because of the horse owner feeds only one type of hay, often just alfalfa.

Putting it in human terms, my stomach often gets upset when I travel. This is usually because a change of diet and a change of bacteria or a change of my intestinal bio-chemistry. So, why shouldn't horses be different?

I know a lot of horses that are over-fed, over-weight and under-utilized. Right now, I am dealing with a 6 year old that is f-a-t but not strong enough to carry my weight.

I would like to see people treat their horses more like horses and apply more common sense.

Ralph


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I sold hay to a horse couple a few years ago. The guy came up to me and said , You know what my vet told me. Horses have been around for thousands and thousands of years and have not all died off yet because of bad feed.

I think colic in horses and constipation in people have something in common. Not always the case but a lack of movement and exercise.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> My thought is that most colic cases occur because of the horse owner feeds only one type of hay, often just alfalfa.
> 
> I would like to see people treat their horses more like horses and apply more common sense.
> 
> Ralph


Could not agree more......the only thing is Ralph, your either born with common sense or you do not have it.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> I sold hay to a horse couple a few years ago.


I hope that horse was able to pay.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Depends on the work level of the horse.

Every thing from old oat straw to 180 RFV alfalfa can be ideal for some situations.

In my youth, the days of the horse Calvary was still a fresh memory. Herb Zook told me one time they rented some ranch horses and those horses were not in condition for the level of activity a Calvary maintained.

He told me the major part of the horse ration was whole oats.

Most owners of horses will over feed their animals for the amount of work they do.
Most Ranch horses did not "work" the entire Before Sun Up to after Sun Down Days. The Cowboys all had a number of relief horses.
Most horse owners I sell hay to *may* ride an hour tor so a week.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I ride my main horse 4-5 times/weeks, 2-3 hours/session, and depending on what I'm teaching him or using him for, like yesterday, he is dripping sweat when I'm done. Most work is done at a trot/canter with lots of up/down transitions.

If it's too hot or too cold, then I'll do more mental work. If it's pretty hot, I'll do more emotional work---makes them start to think more rather than just react.

My main barrel horse was so well conditioned, he was able to do 9-11 miles at a trot/canter and hardly break a sweat. He learned how to use himself real efficiently. He got 4 lbs of oats twice a day.

When I have a horse in for training, I like to do a lot a physical things to get them winded--this tends to kick in the brain and gets them asking "What do I have to do to get him to to let me catch my breath!". Like teenagers, once you have their attention and interest, you can start teaching.

Until a horse gets physically fit, they do not get extra feed, just grass hay. However, I will throw out a bale of alfalfa sometimes in the winter if it is really cold just to give them extra energy to stay warm or on top of grass hay to get them to clean up the less desirable remnants.

Here's a couple of good links for reference:

http://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/forages/publications/id-190.htm

http://www.southernstates.com/articles/selecting-quality-hay.aspx

Just my thoughts.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

While the wild mustangs in the west are slightly different critters, they don't get pampered at all yet aren't they dealing with an over population problem now?


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

I supply alfalfa horse hay to 2 very large feedyards near me and they run maybe 80 horses , they feed free choice 4x4x8 bales and never have any trouble. It is what I would consider #1 alfalfa, past test have been 24 protein, 200 + rfv . far as I know they do not feed any other types of hay . When I ship alfalfa to Florida it was just as good but in small bales at a lot higher price tag............my own horses get whatever I have handy wheat hay, oat hay or lower grade alfalfa hay.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

mlappin said:


> While the wild mustangs in the west are slightly different critters, they don't get pampered at all yet aren't they dealing with an over population problem now?


Those worthless inbred mustangs need to be shot and sent to a packing house ......................Do you have a clue on how much TAX PAYERS money goes to tend to those animals ?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

panhandle9400 said:


> Those worthless inbred mustangs need to be shot and sent to a packing house ......................Do you have a clue on how much TAX PAYERS money goes to tend to those animals ?


No clue. But I will just trust you.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> I ride my main horse 4-5 times/weeks, 2-3 hours/session, and depending on what I'm teaching him or using him for, like yesterday, he is dripping sweat when I'm done. Most work is done at a trot/canter with lots of up/down transitions.
> 
> If it's too hot or too cold, then I'll do more mental work. If it's pretty hot, I'll do more emotional work---makes them start to think more rather than just react.
> 
> ...


I don't think that is anywhere near typical. Just a guess but would think you are in top 2-3 percentile for this amount of time? Your horses, race horses, and Amish horses.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Winter time when I'm not working my horses, its free choice, late first cut RC / OG with a bit of clover. They do great.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

At the Lancaster County Hay Auctions the term sound for horse's is used a lot and taken very seriously it means inside the bale no (dust must or mold) . I was told you are
to address that question prior to selling the load by yes or no or I am not sure. If you sell at the auction (no dust sound for horses). And it hat dust or mold inside Some buyers or some aution owners will hunt you down and expect either money back or dust free hay .


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

endrow said:


> At the Lancaster County Hay Auctions the term sound for horse's is used a lot and taken very seriously it means inside the bale no (dust must or mold) . I was told you are
> to address that question prior to selling the load by yes or no or I am not sure. If you sell at the auction (no dust sound for horses). And it hat dust or mold inside Some buyers or some aution owners will hunt you down and expect either money back or dust free hay .


Buyer beware here. If somebody asks me if they are dusty I honestly tell them I can't afford to break open a round bale every time I load a truck. I didn't however notice any dust while loading them and I also have a 12" probe if they want to pull some out to look.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

From one that boards horses, owns a few and makes horse hay to sell, It's different strokes for different folks- Ideal horse hay=

If you are a hay seller-it's hay that you have that sells well at a good price;

If you are a horse owner, it's the hay at the lowest price that your horse wants to eat that is green smells good and is not moldy,

If you are a horse, I guess it is the hay you get fed that tastes the best.

all tongue in cheek but it is really variable and some of the numbers in those reports are a little lofty on fiber according to my tests on some excellent selling hay.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

I have seen people take dusty, moldy hay and put it in the bunk and then take a hose and wash it down before letting the horse eat it.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

That's what the European's make steamers for


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## kidbalehook (Mar 19, 2013)

My wife too on 3 mini horses from an abuse situation. I hate em, but tolerate em. I have feed those horses hay so bad I don't even want to mention it on here. They are 3 of the healthiest horses you've ever seen! We have to cut back at times because they get too fat!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

the animals you hope will hurry up and die are the ones that live forever-kind of like people


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> the animals you hope will hurry up and die are the ones that live forever-kind of like people


My sister has a cat that won't die. Must be 22 by now.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

kidbalehook said:


> My wife too on 3 mini horses from an abuse situation. I hate em, but tolerate em. I have feed those horses hay so bad I don't even want to mention it on here. They are 3 of the healthiest horses you've ever seen! We have to cut back at times because they get too fat!


Yep, ponies are bad to get overweight with a big potbelly.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> .....your either born with common sense or you do not have it.
> 
> Regards, Mike


After thinking about this, you can learn it----the hard way.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

barnrope said:


> I have seen people take dusty, moldy hay and put it in the bunk and then take a hose and wash it down before letting the horse eat it.


I've seen the amish do that more than once, mod people don't realize that dust is more a respiratory thing than digestive. I've also seen them make sure when they drop it on the ground, the dusty side that was on bottom is on the ground with the reasoning being by time they get to the bottom, it will have had plenty of time to soak up ground moisture and any dust is gone.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Hayman1 said:


> the animals you hope will hurry up and die are the ones that live forever-kind of like people


err.....are we talking about critters or my mother in law?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ralph- we all have our crosses to bear-some bigger and heavier than others!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hayman1 said:


> Ralph- we all have our crosses to bear-some bigger and heavier than others!


It is Sunday, isn't it!

Ralph

And I was a good boy last night, didn't go to town. And didn't have any fun, either!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mlappin said:


> I've seen the amish do that more than once, mod people don't realize that dust is more a respiratory thing than digestive. I've also seen them make sure when they drop it on the ground, the dusty side that was on bottom is on the ground with the reasoning being by time they get to the bottom, it will have had plenty of time to soak up ground moisture and any dust is gone.


Also have heard people reason that feeding on the ground makes it less likely for dust to get in the horse's nose because of gravity.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Also have heard people reason that feeding on the ground makes it less likely for dust to get in the horse's nose because of gravity.


Maybe but than they keep feeding on the same spot and than Wow all of a sudden they got a real worm problem with their herd. Never saw that coming.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Back when we sold squares to the horse market, one lady soaked the Bermuda so it would green up. Horses loved it and it helped with water consumption during the winter. She liked to feed hay on the ground, even in the stalls. She said it helped stretch/flex the horses.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

From my experiences, there are typically three kinds of "dust" in hay.

The first comes from the ground. It is dirt! Some dirt is picked up during the normal harvesting, i.e., from mowing, raking, baling. Excess dirt can be picked up from mowing over things like mole hills, tedder tines in the ground, having a wheel rake set too tight, baler pickup tines in the ground, an so on.

Setting up the equipment correctly will usually avoid most of this kind of dust.

The second kind of dust comes from the crop itself. This is often called ash and is the leaves and stems that have died but are still on the plant. Over dried alfalfa can have what appears to be dust because of leaf shatter. E.g., first cutting OG will have a lot of stems from the previous year that break up into smaller pieces when processed. Second and third cuttings should have very little ash unless there is a crop problem such as a fungus.

The third kind of dust comes from mold. This is the spores, etc. Mold dust is usually the problem causer in horses in that it causes inflammation in respiratory tracts due to allergic type reactions.

Feeding horses on the ground is the more natural way. They typically graze 20 hours a day with their heads down. They often create "lawns", i.e., areas that are overgrazed, in a pasture because they like the tenderer shoots on the regrowth. That is the tastier, better quality grass than the taller growth. Frequent mowing helps avoid lawns.

IMHO, the only horses that really need the energy of alfalfa are race horses. They burn a lot of calories and regular grass hay just doesn't give them enough.

Just some thoughts.

Ralph


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