# Round bale size. 4ft wide only on newer balers?



## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I have been shopping around for an old baler and was talking with a guy that indicated 5ft wide was the standard for a long time and only the newer balers will be 4ft wide. I would rather have 4ft wide for our smaller property but I don't want to pay for one 10yrs newer just to get that.

Can anyone clarify and recommend any older 80s balers that work well? Been looking at Vermeer and IH.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

He's right, mainly for shipping and transporting reasons, why do you want one to produce 4' wide bales? The physical size of the baler is about the same either way ....


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Purely about weight and transport management. It has just become a serious PITA to move anything over standard width.

About what year did 4ft even become available?

Also, is there any estimation on a bare min of HP needed to run a bailer? Even if I run a 5ft wide, I would probably kick the bales at 5ft tall. I know I will be pushing the limits on any loader I find. I am still choking currently at the price of anche


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## foz682 (Jan 10, 2013)

We run a Claas Rollant 46rc, it's a little newer though(mid 90's), it has a fixed chamber and makes 4'x4' bales. Works well with our operation, make around 600-700 bales/year now. The JD we had before the Claas was also 4'x4', it was early-mid 80's, not sure of the model though.


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## T&LSkaarfarms (Dec 11, 2011)

I use to have a JD 410 round balder. It made a 4 wide and 5 tall. Did a pretty decent job if you were not in a hurry. Only had one tying arm and no ramp so you had to back up every bale. You can pick a decent one up for a few grand max around here. I think they were made in the early 80s. Now I run a NH 640. Made in the mid 90s it is a night and day difference. Still 4X5 but is has an auto tie system with 2 arms and a bale ramp so no backing up to dump. It was in very good shape when I bought it 2 years ago and I think I paid $6500. Much nicer bale, I can go a lot faster if I want. Good luck. Tom


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## T&LSkaarfarms (Dec 11, 2011)

fastline said:


> mostly due to weight and transporting at standard width.
> 
> Any ideas of minimum HP to run a baler? I am still choking at the price of old tractors right now. Ones you know you will work on more than run, guys still want 10K for..... I would buy a China machine before doing that.


You could probaly bale with a minimum 40 horse on flat ground if you went slow. I dont think I would recomend under 60 horse. Not really the horsepower needed but the weight to keep everything under control. Not sure where you are at but I cant imagine not finding a tractor for $10,000 that wouldnt work great for what you need. Here in WI you could find a decent one with a loader on for that... Not to sure what to tell you on the foriegn tractor idea. You dont see any around here and certainly wouldnt see one on my farm. Although, there is a lot of talk about Kubota making a really good product. Especially for haying. Would be a lot more than $10,000 though...
Tom


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

We ran a 4x4 round baler, late 80's vintage with 42 pto hp, on mild hills. Only with a full bale on the steepest part of the hills would it be a noticable load. Same tractor couldn't handle a wagon behind the square baler on the same field.

BTW I've never seen a 5 ft wide baler here. I did see an old 5x6 OMC advertised a while back, but its not a common baler. All 4x4, 4x5, 4x6. The older soft core models sell for as little as 1200$ in working order.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

So in Canada, 4ft wide is common but in KS, you need maybe something mid 90s or newer?

I do have a line on one that is dirt cheap but 5ft wide. I guess it would not bale as tight though so I might have to make do for a while unless a 4ft was around.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Keep in mind any machine you get you'll need service and/or parts sooner or later. Think "dealer support".
I use a Kubota M7040, app 68 or 70hp depending on who/what specs I'm looking at. Pulling a JD 530, 5x6 baler, I usually only run about 5' bales. The 'bota does a good job, but it is a load. Wouldn't want many less hp. As for prices, look close at any used equipment you consider. There is good equipment there, for reasonable price, but you have to be "at the right place at the right time."
Good Luck!!


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I have not checked but are old Vermeer balers still supported?

Also, I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable solutions for a 3pt hat spear that can get enough lift to load a trailer? It seems finding a tractor with a front end lift nearly doubles the price. I would love to convert a backhoe for multipurpose use.

I really don't know how much lift force the lift arms can supply on a given tractor. They does not seem to be a common spec and once you get a scissor type spear and a 5ft wide bale, I suppose that could get tricky. I would suppose I would need 4000lb of lift force to get a decent bale and probably 6000lb for todays tight 5x6 bales. ??


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## rhh1127 (Sep 7, 2011)

heston made 4 wide in 70's had a 5540 in 79 that made a 4X 6


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

fastline said:


> I have not checked but are old Vermeer balers still supported?
> 
> Also, I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable solutions for a 3pt hat spear that can get enough lift to load a trailer? It seems finding a tractor with a front end lift nearly doubles the price. I would love to convert a backhoe for multipurpose use.
> 
> I really don't know how much lift force the lift arms can supply on a given tractor. They does not seem to be a common spec and once you get a scissor type spear and a 5ft wide bale, I suppose that could get tricky. I would suppose I would need 4000lb of lift force to get a decent bale and probably 6000lb for todays tight 5x6 bales. ??


There's a company, actually a few companies that make a three point hitch loader for round bales that makes loading on a trailer easier than say....rolling them by hand, but if it were me I would opt for a loader, just a versatile piece of equipment to have around....most large round bales 4' wide weigh between 700-1100 # 5' bales can weigh considerably more...


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

I had a New Holland that was either a late 70s or 80s that was 4' wide.


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## T&LSkaarfarms (Dec 11, 2011)

fastline said:


> I have not checked but are old Vermeer balers still supported?
> 
> Also, I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable solutions for a 3pt hat spear that can get enough lift to load a trailer? It seems finding a tractor with a front end lift nearly doubles the price. I would love to convert a backhoe for multipurpose use.
> 
> I really don't know how much lift force the lift arms can supply on a given tractor. They does not seem to be a common spec and once you get a scissor type spear and a 5ft wide bale, I suppose that could get tricky. I would suppose I would need 4000lb of lift force to get a decent bale and probably 6000lb for todays tight 5x6 bales. ??


I do not run Vermeer but I cannot imagine parts would be easy to find. There seem to be a million old Vermeer balers around here dating back to the late 70s.
Not sure who imformed you about 4' wide balers not beeing popular or easy to find in the 80s but they seem to be fairly prevelant to me. Did you look on tractorhouse?
Not sure about the lift arm info but I done think that I have ever been on a tractor that wouldnt lift whatever I needed to. The limiting factor has always been not enough wieght in the front of the tractor.
Some people around here have put a hydraulic cylinder in place of thier 3rd arm link on the 3pt and are able to put round bales on trailors by having that extra tilt. You probably need a tractor with 38s on the back though. IDK.
Yeah, front end loaders are not the cheapest thing, but almost invaluable when you need them.
Maybe some of this information is regional and Kansas may be way different than WI. Forgive me if you think I am contradicting what you have heard... Just trying to help


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

fastline said:


> I have been shopping around for an old baler and was talking with a guy that indicated 5ft wide was the standard for a long time and only the newer balers will be 4ft wide. I would rather have 4ft wide for our smaller property but I don't want to pay for one 10yrs newer just to get that.
> 
> Can anyone clarify and recommend any older 80s balers that work well? Been looking at Vermeer and IH.


4' wide balers have always been made along with 5'.On most brands anyway.4' is just more common east of Mississippi and 5' west of it.Transporting bales and field sizes are main reasons.You may have better luck finding a used one farther east.

And yes Vermeer has good product support.You may look to see what dealer support is for any brand in your area.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

fastline said:


> I have not checked but are old Vermeer balers still supported?
> 
> Also, I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable solutions for a 3pt hat spear that can get enough lift to load a trailer? It seems finding a tractor with a front end lift nearly doubles the price. I would love to convert a backhoe for multipurpose use.
> 
> I really don't know how much lift force the lift arms can supply on a given tractor. They does not seem to be a common spec and once you get a scissor type spear and a 5ft wide bale, I suppose that could get tricky. I would suppose I would need 4000lb of lift force to get a decent bale and probably 6000lb for todays tight 5x6 bales. ??


Yes there are a number of dealers here in Kansas I have one about 7 miles away and Harry is very helpful G&R implements in Durham Ks. I run a 605 SuperJ its a work horse and has had a hard life but will still pack the hay in and makes a good tight bale. There is a 604 SJ ? but have'nt seen one around here . Are you planning to ship your hay? That is the one reason to have the 4 ft. Most around here make the 5x6, less bales to deal with and shipping instate isn't that big of a problem.

As far as the 3pt for loading bales on a trailer yes but only one bale high on a low trailer unless I am missing something. what area are you in? there are generaly farm auctions comming up this time of year. If you end up with a Ford 5000 or bigger I have a fel I took off my 7700 which is not being utilized. I could not imagine making hay with out a FEL. Welcome to Hay Talk and happy hayin Martin


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I am around the Wichita area. I think even stacking 1high would be acceptable for this year to just get something going. I was also looking at throwing a quick little fork lift attachment together for a 3pt. Either way, I would try to upgrade next year. If I really get in a pinch to double stack, I could probably get some help.

Mostly trying to find a cheap way to get through this first year. I do have a line on a 5ft baler for scrap price but that seems the same as having an iffy forklift when the trucker shows up and is charging by the minute. I am just not sure how to really test a baler other than put it in the field and if it does not work, it is not like you have a bunch of time to fix it before product goes bad.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

http://www2.vermeer.com/vermeer/NA/en/N/equipment/balers there is a dealer in milton thats 28 miles wwest of Wichita another east of Eldorado and one up here in Marion ks. If you want cheep way there are alot of Hesstons around and AGCO carries parts had no problems finding parts even for the 5800 rounder I had. As far as testing they can hook up to tractor and spin it and you can visually inspect, listen to it, loosen belts and spin the rollers to see if they are froze etc. but you are right untill you feed it hay its impossible to KNOW if its in need of repairs. I have with all my "new" balers put a little hay down until I find out if its ready to roll. Martin


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

I have a 650 NH that does 6x4, twine only with bale command that I picked up for 8k AUD with 14k bales on the clock. If you're resonably handy mechanically, belt style round balers are easy to fix, they're mostly only chains and bearings, and parts can be had for a fraction of the price of genuine from bearing shops, as they are mostly standard styles/sizes. Not much else wears out on them. Belts are pricey though, so check them carefully.
I personally wouldn't buy one without bale command, it is handy to adjust bale size on the go, and also to keep track of bale count.
Oh, and if you sell your hay, I wouldn't touch a 5' wide baler, most people look at the price of a bale, not the size of it.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Yeah, I was looking at marketability too. However, I doubt I would have horse grade hay out of the blocks (some horse people are clueless) and most cattlemen know what they are buying. I would be looking to sell the product, I don't need it, and probably not out of state.

I have noticed most people are advertising by the bale but the honest ones are quoting weights. I know I already got hosed a bit by accepting payment by the bale and not the ton. Then they came out with a brand new 5x6 baler. Guy was a straight shooter but I did not have my head on at the time and he was mostly doing me a favor to cut my mixed grass crap.

My day job is a mechanical and manufacturing engineer so mechanical, electrical, and hydraulic systems are no issue and custom parts can be done up but I wish I had a little longer to meditate. I knew this was coming last fall.

I really appreciate all the help. Really great to find some people to talk too. My dad has all but retired from life so I am going off learning from when I was a kid and other horticulture experience.


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm using an 38 hp tractor and a Hesston 540 4x4 baler. Up a slight hill and a full bale chamber to old Massey complains a bit. I'm pretty sure 4x5 would be almost impossible for my low hp range.

This looks interesting. Found it when searching for sissor lifts. Don't know what they sell for or if there are other models, maybe you can fabricate one. May be a pain if you handle a lot of bales though. I think I got a crick in my neck thinking about it.






CW


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

askinner said:


> Oh, and if you sell your hay, I wouldn't touch a 5' wide baler, most people look at the price of a bale, not the size of it.


Depends on your location.Most every thing in this area is sold by the ton.Heck most of my customers don't want small bales anyway.More bales to handle.

A little horse hay maybe sold by the bale,but I'm to the point I refuse to sell to them anyway.And I guess if I sell to them I'll be selling it by the ton for cash or they can go eleswhere.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

CW, I am right there with ya! though I might have to fab up one of these critters as a temp, I have had way too much seat time in that cranked position to think that would be a great lifetime baling solution. However, in a pinch, they could be great and I bet I could rig one to pick two bales with some counter up front. If nothing else, it is a plan C or D later in the show!


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Depends on your location.Most every thing in this area is sold by the ton.Heck most of my customers don't want small bales anyway.More bales to handle.
> 
> A little horse hay maybe sold by the bale,but I'm to the point I refuse to sell to them anyway.And I guess if I sell to them I'll be selling it by the ton for cash or they can go eleswhere.


I may be getting a little off topic here, but what do y'all use to weigh your hay, if not just guesstimates? I was actually thinking of rigging scales up to my loader to keep track of bale weights, not just for sales, but for fert requirements also.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I use the coop scales load up a trailer and divide by number of bales. If the buyer wants they can weight each load. Martin


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I weighed a couple of times at the local fert. scales, after that it was pure guesstimating.....


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

For small squares, I bought an electronic luggage scale like this, I just hook the strings on the hook: http://www.tmart.com/40kg-x-10g-2004-Portable-Luggage-Hanging-Digital-Pocket-Scale-with-Blue-Backlight-Black-FREE-2-x-CR2032_p133466.html?cc=aud&fixed_price=hk_intl&utm_source=baseau&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=89003019&utm_campaign=product&gclid=CNLD--aS4rUCFcQhpQodqV8Axw Great to keep on the baler for setting density.

Rounds are the problem though...


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Here is an inexpensive 3pt hay lift. Probably work well if you put a hydraulic top link on it. http://www.everythingattachments.com/Tractor-3-Point-Hitch-Scissor-High-Lift-Hay-Lift-p/fc-lift-scissorhl-lb3f.htm


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

askinner said:


> I may be getting a little off topic here, but what do y'all use to weigh your hay, if not just guesstimates? I was actually thinking of rigging scales up to my loader to keep track of bale weights, not just for sales, but for fert requirements also.


My baler has a scale.I keep track of each field and cutting.I color code each cutting with different colors of netwrap.I use this wieght for small orders.And to get yields on fields.

Most everything else gets rewieghed on truck scales when sold.Either at elevators or at the feedlots where I deliver.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

fastline said:


> I have not checked but are old Vermeer balers still supported?
> 
> Also, I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable solutions for a 3pt hat spear that can get enough lift to load a trailer? It seems finding a tractor with a front end lift nearly doubles the price. I would love to convert a backhoe for multipurpose use.
> 
> I really don't know how much lift force the lift arms can supply on a given tractor. They does not seem to be a common spec and once you get a scissor type spear and a 5ft wide bale, I suppose that could get tricky. I would suppose I would need 4000lb of lift force to get a decent bale and probably 6000lb for todays tight 5x6 bales. ??


My first question is what do you currently have to work with? Are you just adding a round baler to your current operation or starting from scratch?

As mentioned already, look on tractorhouse. 4' balers are pretty plentiful, they usually are not the cheapest though. Most of the cheaper ones are soft core fixed chamber. I doubt if you are going to find a 4' varuable chamber for scrap price. Most of the time a baler priced at scap price is wore out & ready fro the scap yard.

Do you currently not have a tractor with the HP to pull a round baler? Or do you not have one with a loader? The loader on my 40 hp tractor can handle 1500lb bales. You can find plenty of old 70's tractor with loaders for under $10k. A new China tractor with the much HP & a loader will probably run close to $30k. Thats a no brainer to me the buy the classic iron.

Instead of wasting the money on a China tractor buy a nicer 4x5 baler, 70's 80 hp tractor, & 70's 40-60hp tractor & put the rest of the money in the bank.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes, I would basically need to start from scratch. All equipment from our old family farm in W KS has been sold and only thing I have now is a small Ford 800 and related equip.

I think my mention of the China tractor was more of a vent of frustration on prices of old iron. Old Construction equip is cheaper than ag tractors for sure.

I thought all the old balers were sort of variable chamber because you basically manually decide when to stop feeding and twine? I was looking starting with an old 5x6 and wrap them up at 5ft to reduce weight just a bit. I just cannot afford all the expenses right now and a good baler and tractor will not do much if I don't have swathing and raking ability. Trying to spread the love however I can.

There are a few tractor auctions this week so I am trying to secure a couple pieces this week if I can. My luck I will get a tractor that leaks everything and needs rebuilt.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

If in doubt... don't!!! There are good pieces of equipment at good prices you just have to find them.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

fastline said:


> I thought all the old balers were sort of variable chamber because you basically manually decide when to stop feeding and twine? I was looking starting with an old 5x6 and wrap them up at 5ft to reduce weight just a bit. I just cannot afford all the expenses right now and a good baler and tractor will not do much if I don't have swathing and raking ability. Trying to spread the love however I can.
> 
> There are a few tractor auctions this week so I am trying to secure a couple pieces this week if I can. My luck I will get a tractor that leaks everything and needs rebuilt.


No, actually the opposite. Most of the older balers are fixed chamber, or soft core balers. They will form a smaller bale but it doesn't start to get tight until the bale reaches the "fixed" size. If you make a 5x5 bale in a fixed chamber 5x6 baler it will be very soft & may not even stay together.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Fowllife said:


> No, actually the opposite. Most of the older balers are fixed chamber, or soft core balers. They will form a smaller bale but it doesn't start to get tight until the bale reaches the "fixed" size. If you make a 5x5 bale in a fixed chamber 5x6 baler it will be very soft & may not even stay together.


Certain brands.IIRC Vermeer,JD & NH never had soft center balers.

International did,no longer made.Current Case IH balers are same as NH
New Idea had a soft center.I don't think they are made anymore
M&W has been bought out by Arts Way
Claas makes a soft center,I think variable chamber also?
OMC had soft center.

Just a few I could think of.Nieghbors have or had.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Certain brands.IIRC Vermeer,JD & NH never had soft center balers.
> 
> International did,no longer made.Current Case IH balers are same as NH
> New Idea had a soft center.I don't think they are made anymore
> ...


You may very well be right on that. For some reason I was thinking that the NH chain balers were fixed chamber, but I'm probably wrong? I think most of the Hesson balers were hardcore.

HERE at least, it seems that only cheap round balers you see are off brand soft core, or NH chain balers, and most of them are 5x5 or 5x6.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Pardon my ignorance but could you briefly explain the differences and how one can tell the difference by looking at the machine? All I have found are belt type machines in 5x6 but I thought I could build em at 5x5 with that. I am trying to plan for 5x6 in equipment sizing but I would be happier with a smaller size if I could find it.

Looking at an old late 70s Vermeer and IH 3650.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

fastline said:


> Pardon my ignorance but could you briefly explain the differences and how one can tell the difference by looking at the machine? All I have found are belt type machines in 5x6 but I thought I could build em at 5x5 with that. I am trying to plan for 5x6 in equipment sizing but I would be happier with a smaller size if I could find it.
> 
> Looking at an old late 70s Vermeer and IH 3650.


Looks like the IH 3650 is the same as a NI baler.Just by the pics online.It is soft center baler.There is a few around here.Decent baler ,I don't know about parts availability.

A soft core has a fixed chamber the belts or rollers stay in one place.The hay goes in and tumbles around and as it fills it gets tighter and tighter.The outside will be solid but center of bales are soft.Bales are lighter and will sag after they sit awhile.

What letter of Vermeer?


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

fastline said:


> Pardon my ignorance but could you briefly explain the differences and how one can tell the difference by looking at the machine? All I have found are belt type machines in 5x6 but I thought I could build em at 5x5 with that. I am trying to plan for 5x6 in equipment sizing but I would be happier with a smaller size if I could find it.
> 
> Looking at an old late 70s Vermeer and IH 3650.


Here is a general idea of the internal working of a varible chamber (hard core) baler.
As the material feeds in and rolls on the bale support beam and builds up it displaces the idler arms (24 and 44). I guess it would be proper to say the belts themself form the varible diameter chamber. The width is fixed usually 4 feet or 5 feet.
You should be able to locate a good baler for 5 K or so I would think. Plenty if 4x4 machines are on the market.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I am not yet sure on the model of the Vemeer but I have a picture of it and looks like the belts wrap over several poles around the periphery and if that is the mode of adjustment, I highly doubt there is any adjustment there.

Would there be adjustment cylinders on the sides to change bale size or maybe alternate pole locating holes? How do you tell? Also, as I try to learn here, the term "soft core" might mean that todays balers, with variable sizing, may start small and allow the bale to packnad tighten even at the smaller diameters and expand as the roll gets bigger?

IE, soft core means old tech, sloppy bale, not adjustable?


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Have you tried TractorHouse.com? There are a variety of balers on there one 605 sj in kansas $3900 looks a little rough.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

fastline said:


> I was looking starting with an old 5x6 and wrap them up at 5ft to reduce weight just a bit. I just cannot afford all the expenses right now and a good baler and tractor will not do much if I don't have swathing and raking ability.


Just my two cents....
I would advise against a 5' wide baler unless you just need the higher capacity. It will take a larger tractor to pull it and the extra weight puts a lot of stress on components such as belts, bearings, and chains.

I would look for a 4x5 baler. Many of those you can run with a 45-50 hp tractor, maybe less if you only roll 4' diameter.

Plus, when the horselady pulls into your yard in her dad's pickup truck to buy ONE bale of hay, a 4' wide bale will fit between the wheelwells and they can just roll it off. Can't do that with a 5' wide bale.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I do agree with that and my original target was a 4ft baler but I can't seem to find a fix'r up'r on a 4x5. I do see several advantages of 4ft wide bales. I am going to have to buy something old and likely broke to be able to afford my way in. I am hoping by next year things will get better and I will have more of what I need so can focus on that very important baler.

Last year the guy came just to bale the place and took 2/3 and paid $20/bale for my 1/3..... Can you say screwed? I guess I got it cut down though.


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

fastline said:


> I do agree with that and my original target was a 4ft baler but I can't seem to find a fix'r up'r on a 4x5. I do see several advantages of 4ft wide bales. I am going to have to buy something old and likely broke to be able to afford my way in. I am hoping by next year things will get better and I will have more of what I need so can focus on that very important baler.
> 
> Last year the guy came just to bale the place and took 2/3 and paid $20/bale for my 1/3..... Can you say screwed?	I guess I got it cut down though.


As I said in an earlier post, they are pretty cheap to repair, just make absolutely certain if you go a fixer up baler, that the belts are in good conition, and absolutely positively certain any electronics work as they should, and the harnesses are not damage. Either one of the two will cost more than the baler is worth to repair. Have a good look at the chain sprockets too, if the teeth are sharp, they are worn, and sprockets are also quite pricey. Also check the sheet metal on the chamber sides (particularly the tail gate sides) aren't worn too thin.
Chains and bearings are cheap though, and you can end up with a great baler for a good price if that's all that's required.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

In looking around, it seems IH and Hesston are pretty common cheaper balers. I noticed one that was a hard center baler. Can anyone indicate any models that are 4ft wide or possibly confirm if a baler is a hard core, it may have variable diameter?


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

fastline said:


> In looking around, it seems IH and Hesston are pretty common cheaper balers. I noticed one that was a hard center baler. Can anyone indicate any models that are 4ft wide or possibly confirm if a baler is a hard core, it may have variable diameter?


Most of the newer balers are "hard" core type. Click on the attached thumbnail to inlarge the picture. It is a general layout of the internal parts to give you and idea.
Do a search on the model number on the machine (IE. Make,model number, specifications) and you should find the size for the particular model.
The Heston model 530, 540 are small round 4x4 balers and you can make a 2 foot round 4 foot long bale if you want. They make a solid roll. This link will give you a file that lists the bale size and has the newer series model numbers
http://www.agcoiron.com/fileUpload/AG_HS%20Round%20Balers_Brochure.pdf
4' X 6' and 5' X 6' bales respectively.
CW


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I appreciate the diagram! From that, it kind of appears that #44 is a compaction arm that would work to maintain tightness of the roll, regardless of size? Probably with a rotary or limit switch that you could set at whatever to automatically trip and start tying?

I am not sure if a 4ft baler would be in the NTH (nice to have) pile though. I am still trying to figure out what vintage these came about and if I can find one priced right. To be honest, I am not sure anything over 2K would be in the budget right now but I don't mind doing some welding and wrenching. I am also very electronically inclined so those issues don't concern me but I doubt these older balers are electronic.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

#44 keeps tention on the belts.It may have springs,hyd pressure or air bags to do it..And yes it probably has the size switch on it of some sort.On newer models with a monitor.

If you are looking for balers under 2K they probably didn't have a monitor then.You had to look back and there was some sort of indictor for bale size.Or on soft core balers it was a pressure switch,there you are packing the bale from the fixed chamber.So much pressure = Full bale.Some balers had manual twine you had to pull twine arm with a rope.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I have a couple pieces I have found and would like to try and get more info and an idea of value.

M&W 1500 4x5 baler, new around 92, one owner, electric tie, will also run mesh. value?

Hesston 1014 hydroswing. Need to learn more about this machine but does have some wear on conditioner rolls and probably needs some cutter teeth. value?


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/list.aspx?bcatid=464&DidSearch=1&EID=1&LP=TH&scf=False&ListCurrency=USD&ETID=1&catid=1132&Manu=HESSTON&Mdltxt=1014&mdlx=Contains&DisplayExtraTHOSpecs=1&CTRY=usa&SO=2&btnSearch=Search

I couldn't find any info on the baler, but I would think a 4x5 from the early 90's with net wrap wouyld be in the $3500-7000 range depending on condition

Also keep in mind that depending on how bad the rolls are new one are usually in the $2000-3000 range.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

The 1014 does it swing both left &right side had one only swung right side or center. Sold it for 750 last yr rubber rolls 2 small chunks and some rust out new sickel sections. Martin


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_Here is some listed on Fastline._

_http://www.fastline.com/v100/listings.aspx?Category=Balers&Manufacturer=M%26W&zip=56187&items=10&page=1_


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I really need to find dims, weight, and if this 1500 baler is varable chamber, hard center, etc? I don't think on a 4x5 I would run any less diameter though. That is the size I was after.

Also, I have located a Reese disc swing over type mower. I think the disc is preferred over the above Hesston sickle type but I don't think any of these run a conditioner and wondering about thoughts on that? if I remember right, Alfalfa MUST be conditioned? Any other hay crops or pros and cons here? Remember I am running oats right now but if I get haying equipment, I would want to do more haying of "something". Just not sure if the Hesston above could make more sense with a conditioner or if simply leaving a hay crop on the ground 3-5 days would be better. Granted sometimes we may not have 3-5 days. Trying to weight options.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Nothing HAS to be conditioned...is it better to be? Of course!


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Can someone get the same end result without conditioning, even on Alfalfa with enough dry time on the field? I really do like the simplicty of the disc mower for my small operation but providing a quality product is important. I don't mind leaving in the field 3-4 days for drying if that could work. I know there are disc mowers with conditioners but I can't afford them right now.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

You run into a problem of leaf loss. The conditioners help dry the stems closer to the time it takes the leaf to dry so it becomes a matter of quality


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

That certainly make sense now. uniform drying with the entire plant. There ain't a whole lot of leaf on oats though.


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

fastline said:


> I really need to find dims, weight, and if this 1500 baler is varable chamber, hard center, etc? I don't think on a 4x5 I would run any less diameter though. That is the size I was after.


Here is a link that compairs several models. The MW is a fixed chamber baler and uses spring and linkage to control the bale density. Im not too sure but I think the bale on the MW 1500 will be soft compaired to the type with belts and hydraulic tensioning.
Also a discription of the various types. Carried expandable types using belts and hydraulic tensioning are the most popular.

http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G1250

CW


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

That is a really great reference!

Is there any huge benefit or spend worth in the electric tying and net wrap? I know net seems to be common place anymore to keep things together better but I am not sure how much cost that adds to each bale. Twine sure is cheap...


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

Net is faster so its more of a production issue. Have not looked at the cost of net. I would make sure it had at least electric tie. They have some models that use a hydraulic cylinder to move the tie arm across the bale.
Most of them will have electric tie.

CW


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I believe Kyfred is running a MW baler.You may try sending him a PM._


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

I got out of the business when I retired but for personal reasons got back in on a small scale. I had a problem getting my hay put up with custom balers with the patch being so small, so I re-bought into the equipment. Last spring I was looking for a baler that would put out about a 1000# bale as I down sized my main tractor to 65 hp.

I couldn't find any 4xx balers at a reasonable price, primarily looking for JD, but I did stumble across a not so well used '91 375 JD. It rolls a 5' wide like you mentioned, but it stops at 4' in diameter. Best I can calculate it puts out about a 800+# roll whereas the full 6' diameter machines (5xx) would go 1600 to 2k#. Doing the math on the 4xx balers at 5 or 6' dia and they would run 1100 to 1200+.

I bought it at an auction house outright at $5k. That was ok as 8 years or so ago I bought '70's ish 530 for that same price. One thing I like very much about the 375 is that it is totally mechanical and manual in it's operation.

For an older baler this means that you don't have to worry about automatic functions being out of whack, needing adjustment or replacement, and you can make your own decisions as to when you do what. I really, really like that. All the pertinent information is mechanically displayed on the front of the baler including where the tie arm is located which I especially like as my last baler was automatic and I had tieing problems with it.

I used it all last season and didn't have to buy anything for it....just a good lube prior to use....surprise surprise. All the OEM 3 ply diamond belts were in super shape with one having about 2" of the clips ripped out. This winter I bought some clips and an installation tool and have that problem solved. A good lubing with chain lube put the chains in working order.

With hay prices spiking here after the drought and as markets go, prices never going back to where they were, the downsizing to 4xx allows the seller to reduce prices and improve sales even though the buyer gets the short stick. Besides, they work easier with smaller tractors and as others said, fit the 8' highway width standard.

One thing I like about my bales is that I usually use the FEL and I can see around them much easier being only 4' in diameter.

Mark


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I ended up buying an M&W 1500 with net wrap. That is a fixed chamber 4x5. Has electric twine tie and manual net wrap with monitor. Have not used it yet but I REALLY like the idea of not fighting with belts but I might get to fight with all the bearings instead. I already know the net wrap drums are locked up because he never used it.

I am hoping to find someone that owns one so I can try to learn their quirks quickly. I will have to learn fast. I am hoping to find somewhere to test it before go day.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

fastline said:


> I ended up buying an M&W 1500 with net wrap. That is a fixed chamber 4x5. Has electric twine tie and manual net wrap with monitor. Have not used it yet but I REALLY like the idea of not fighting with belts but I might get to fight with all the bearings instead. I already know the net wrap drums are locked up because he never used it.
> 
> I am hoping to find someone that owns one so I can try to learn their quirks quickly. I will have to learn fast. I am hoping to find somewhere to test it before go day.


My 375 had one bearing on the top rear that was such that you couldn't turn the roller by hand with the gate open. I got some chain lube with Moly, was Liquid Wrench brand.and dosed it with a goodly amount. After letting it sit, I started to put pressure on the roller in a rocking motion and after a few minutes of squirting and rocking it broke loose.

I baled with it last year and see no reason for concern this year as it rolls freely and it makes no noises when turning.

Soooooo, maybe it's not all that bad after all.

Good luck,
Mark


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