# Deere Large Square Baler Pic



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

View attachment 2670


You can say that you saw it on haytalk first. My JD friend sent this to me tonight from the JD preview show.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Nope I saw a picture of one on a trailer here in Colorado first. The salesman that sold me my Krone rake showed it to me on his phone. They had it here at the JD Dealer testing it out on corn stalks last winter. He said it did alright. Nothing ground breaking. He said it was based on Kuhn Big Baler patents in addition to JD patents and designs.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> He said it was based on Kuhn Big Baler patents in addition to JD patents and designs.


That is what I also have been told.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


Put it in the field with the competition and have it at least be an equal. Then sell it for less then the competition. Ha I make myself laugh. JD sell for less then the competition! Ha!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Sure is purty .... With that green paint and all......


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


Kuhn has never been a big player in this market either.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

It will be a tough sell to those who remember their last big square baler and what a joke it was. Now that agco has most of that business , deere will have to be inline on prices , the issues with getting parts and the RIGHT PARTS is and has been a problem with deere around this area. The old hesston design is very reliable and almost problem free if you maintain your balers. I doubt I will be going to change colors .massey,agco,challenger line has proven themselves. IMO statement was made by a deere guy..................


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Is it a Kuhn baler that is painted green with some features added by JD or is it actually a JD built baler using some Kuhn designs?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


Obviously by actual performance....time will give the final answer.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

panhandle9400 said:


> It will be a tough sell to those who remember their last big square baler and what a joke it was. Now that agco has most of that business , deere will have to be inline on prices


That is true.

Regards, Mike


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


Certain people that are perfectly satisfied with their NH, Massey, etc. will be salivating over a JD big baler just because its green. The beauty of brand loyalty. Whether its worth it at this point is debatable but we have to admit it was earned.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> Certain people that are perfectly satisfied with their NH, Massey, etc. will be salivating over a JD big baler just because its green. The beauty of brand loyalty. Whether its worth it at this point is debatable but we have to admit it was earned.


For the kind of money that the baler will cost I bet people might be a bit more colorblind. But you are right. The guy that sold me my Krone rake sold a small JD baler a couple of months ago. The 1st small JD baler this dealer and all of it's locations have sold in 2 years. They had to order it in. The sales guy said the customer just had to have a JD baler. And any sales guy isn't about to turn away a sale. I know lots of guys on here like JD small balers though.

As for looks of the new JD baler and it doesn't really matter so long as it works good. But I think it is an ugly thing compared to MF, NH, or Krone. I need aerodynamics so I don't have any wind resistance while flying down the windrows.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> How will it ever get over JD's big baler reputation.


Ok... so fill me in. What is Deere's reputation on big squares? Are we talking something like these:
http://m.tractorhouse.com/Results?industryName=TRACTOR&manufacturerName=JOHN%20DEERE&modelName=100&categoryId=1136

We don't see many big square balers in these parts of any brand


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## umpire52 (Oct 26, 2011)

Hardly any big squares around here. What's price for a baler this size new?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

ANewman said:


> Ok... so fill me in. What is Deere's reputation on big squares? Are we talking something like these:
> http://m.tractorhouse.com/Results?industryName=TRACTOR&manufacturerName=JOHN%20DEERE&modelName=100&categoryId=1136


The JD 100 baler was very problematic....poor design. Has/d alot of metal fatigue. I will try to recall this from memory but I think Deere bought plans from Krone for a obsolete or dis-continued or maybe even never marketed baler. They built it themselves and did so very poorly. Had knotter design problems and hay stuffer problems. I do not know the exact details but I think this is close.

The 100's were not produced very long as they were poor from the beginning and it did not take long for everyone to find out. I hope I stated this correctly as I do not want to offend anyone. This baler was 100% John Deere's baby as far as production.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayden(FarmerCline) asked earlier about the baler being a Kuhn or a Deere....well I am not 100% sure but I was told that it is really more Kuhn than Deere in design involvement, but that Deere was going to build it....maybe it would be better if Kuhn did build it . Deere is like all the other manufacturers out there.... there are no 100% success stories in Ag manufacturing....but Deere sure has built some damn good tractors for the most part.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Vol said:


> The JD 100 baler was very problematic....poor design. Has/d alot of metal fatigue. I will try to recall this from memory but I think Deere bought plans from Krone for a obsolete or dis-continued or maybe even never marketed baler. They built it themselves and did so very poorly. Had knotter design problems and hay stuffer problems. I do not know the exact details but I think this is close.
> 
> The 100's were not produced very long as they were poor from the beginning and it did not take long for everyone to find out. I hope I stated this correctly as I do not want to offend anyone. This baler was 100% John Deere's baby as far as production.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I'm pretty sure there was a significant change midstream with those. Early ones were junk, later ones were at least serviceable. A friend ran a later model the last few years fairly successfully. 
Why they didn't change the model number at that serial number break, who knows. Hopefully they don't call it 100 again!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Here is a news release from AgWeb that tells some additional facts about these balers.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/new_highly-productive_large_square_balers_from_john_deere_NAA_News_Release/


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Here is a news release from AgWeb that tells some additional facts about these balers.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> http://www.agweb.com/article/new_highly-productive_large_square_balers_from_john_deere_NAA_News_Release/


So.... It will have the same features as any other big square. Though I find the 3 and 4 hydraulic cylinders to control tension on the bale chamber interesting. My MF only has 2. Except still Agco and Krone are the only makers of 4x4 balers.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

I've stumbled across the JD 100 balers before on tractorhouse and wondered why they were about half the price of others


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2014)

To add to what mike said about the 100s , one of the biggest problems was not having a double knotter. That is too much rope for just one knot to sinch up. I think this should be a pretty decent baler. Its gotta be if deere has any chance in the market. Ive heard deere was really trying to prefect this baler since they screwed up on the 100 so bad. But modeling after kuhn i have my doubts..


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

I am sold on their tractors but the only green big square I'd buy would be a Krone, even though I haven't had a big square baler yet.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Some accoutrements to go with the new baler from Deere.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/john_deere_offers_new_solutions_for_handling_large_square_bales_NAA_News_Release/


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Some more factual info on the JD large square balers.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/deere_debuts_unprecedented_hay_and_forage_equipment_lineup_NAA_Aimee_Cope/


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Some more factual info on the JD large square balers.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> http://www.agweb.com/article/deere_debuts_unprecedented_hay_and_forage_equipment_lineup_NAA_Aimee_Cope/


Quote from the article. "Both high-capacity balers, the L330 and L340, are designed to produce dense, well-shaped bales across various field conditions."

I'm glad they decided to have it make those kinds of bales rather then loose and badly shaped. I have nothing against JD making a baler. I just sometimes get a kick out of advertisement and PR speak.

But I wonder if chain driven balers like the MF balers are kind of on the way out. As far as I know NH, Krone, and now JD have gear and shaft driven balers.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Teslan said:


> But I wonder if chain driven balers like the MF balers are kind of on the way out. As far as I know NH, Krone, and now JD have gear and shaft driven balers.


That's kind of hard to say. At first glance the chain seems like out-dated tech (and in some regard it is), but when designed properly there's little reason not to use it. I'm reasonably comfortable in saying the main knotter/stuffer drive chain on the Masseys is good for well over 60,000 bales before it becomes stretched too far to use (and stretching has very little effect on the timing; certainly not enough to require retiming the baler). For a lot of guys, that's 6-12 years of use.

They've been using a chain since their first baler and it has proven to be cheap, reliable and easy to adjust (especially in regards to timing). Why throw all the extra cost into gears and shafts when it isn't needed?

Concerning Deere, I'm interested to see how their baler turns out. At first glance I assumed they were shooting for the lower end of the market, but so far they've been talking about the full scale. I do like their lube-integrated knotter heads and the fact they've bothered to throw a position sensor on every slacker arm. I know the Massey balers I've ran had switches on the knotter stack that monited whether any one arm stayed up or down, but its crutch is that it sometimes can't catch a wrapped billhook where a slacker may be stuck in the middle of its stroke. To catch that event you do have to glance back at the flags.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I really want a big square baler, but I'm astounded by the prices. New Holland runs the show in my area. Even the big Deere guys run NH big balers. 
I wish I could find a way to get a reliable used baler with an applicator without spending a fortune. 
Makes running a round baler seem really cheap.

Maybe the old ladies will think the hay is better since its shaped like a rectangle rather than those evil round bales. We all know round bales are filled with evil junk on the inside.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Chains are sure a lot cheaper to replace than a blown up gearbox...


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I really want a big square baler, but I'm astounded by the prices. New Holland runs the show in my area. Even the big Deere guys run NH big balers.
> I wish I could find a way to get a reliable used baler with an applicator without spending a fortune.
> Makes running a round baler seem really cheap.
> 
> Maybe the old ladies will think the hay is better since its shaped like a rectangle rather than those evil round bales. We all know round bales are filled with evil junk on the inside.


They are pricey. As is a tractor to run them. I got a call not to long ago to a farmer in Pennsylvania (Was asking about irrigation for a friend in Colorado). He said he runs one of the new NH balers and says they sure are great. I wonder how true it is that the NH require a smaller tractor then the Hesstons. Minimum for NH 106, but 120hp for Hesston. When really for Hesston 150 PTO is perfect.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

JD with the prices you get for rounds there I don't see the benefit of going big square for you. I know here guys are selling big squares for about the same per ton as rounds and you have to tie up a lot of money to get that tons per hour boost of the big square.

Loose the ability to leave bales in the field for a couple of days too.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

Teslan said:


> He said he runs one of the new NH balers and says they sure are great. I wonder how true it is that the NH require a smaller tractor then the Hesstons. Minimum for NH 106, but 120hp for Hesston. When really for Hesston 150 PTO is perfect.


I think there are a couple factors at play. Comparing 3x3 non-cutters to one another, the New Holland BigBaler 330 lists it has a 538 lb flywheel while the Massey 2150 is 360 lbs. They pretty well match flywheel weight once you get to the 3x4s though (340: 584 lbs vs 2170: 630 lbs). Granted without knowing the diameters of the flywheels it's hard to say where one has more inertia than the other. IE, a small diameter 538 lb flywheel can have less inertia than a larger diameter 360 lb flywheel.

The other thing to look at is what loads the balers can reach. I'd love it the manufacturers would actual give a comparable number, but obviously if one has a max load lower than the other, horsepower is drastically reduced. Other things to consider in the rating is whether the manufacturer rated it at maximum capacity (fewest number of flakes per bale, highest tons per hour) or at maximum bale weight (more flakes, fewer tons per hour, but often another 50-100 lbs per bale).


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

More on John Deere's new 3x3 and 3x4's.

Regards, Mike

http://www.farms.com/Commentaries/new-john-deere-l340-large-square-baler-walkaround-video-83006.aspx


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> More on John Deere's new 3x3 and 3x4's.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> http://www.farms.com/Commentaries/new-john-deere-l340-large-square-baler-walkaround-video-83006.aspx


I would like to know why their double knotter is better then any other big square baler double knotters. They seem to be quite proud that the baler has a double knotter. Though every other big square does double knots as well.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Teslan said:


> I would like to know why their double knotter is better then any other big square baler double knotters. They seem to be quite proud that the baler has a double knotter. Though every other big square does double knots as well.


Silly....it's the Deere Double Knotter or the DDK if ya must....it just runs better, everyone knows that


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Silly....it's the Deere Double Knotter or the DDK if ya must....it just runs better, everyone knows that


My MFDK works pretty good.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Its the special paint. Did you know they tint the gold paint with real gold? I think thats why they are worth more...

I know. Gonna catch flack from those who bleed green. I like my antiquated deere mower so far. But in its defense it is Chrysler powered!


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Here a video with the L340 and other equipment.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Its the special paint. Did you know they tint the gold paint with real gold? I think thats why they are worth more...
> 
> I know. Gonna catch flack from those who bleed green. I like my antiquated deere mower so far. But in its defense it is Chrysler powered!


Slant six?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Slant six?


Yessir! Not horrible on gas. For now it does the trick. I need them jd fans to quit just collecting just tractors and have their diaplays look useful. Tractor. Matching implements. Classic combines and windrowers. Then I can sell mine and get a bigger tractor diskbine combo. Some day.

I sure do like it if I go to a show of some sort and a tractor shows what it was made for. Attached to something. Cars were made for driving by themselves. Tractors need something attached.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

My first car had a slant six, dodge dart....what a car....didn't have an 8-track in that one....


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Yessir! Not horrible on gas. For now it does the trick. I need them jd fans to quit just collecting just tractors and have their diaplays look useful. Tractor. Matching implements. Classic combines and windrowers. Then I can sell mine and get a bigger tractor diskbine combo. Some day.
> 
> I sure do like it if I go to a show of some sort and a tractor shows what it was made for. Attached to something. Cars were made for driving by themselves. Tractors need something attached.


Seen on RFD-TV a farm an antique tractor show seems like it was in Nebraska, they had about 50 acres of wheat to harvest and then plow and disc the land after. Guy said he had only 2 rules. rule number 1 was they had a church service from 9-10 every morning and anyone running an engine during these hours would be politely asked to leave and rule number 2 if you brought a tractor or combine you had to put it in the field and use it or you would be showed the gate out of there said this was an antique demonstration and not a show for polished trailer queens. Very interesting showed maybe 30 tractors in field plowing at one time from Farmall Super A pulling one bottom to a Deere 830 and some kind of Case wheatland special pulling 5 bottoms.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

What was the show?


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

This is the second big baler our dealer sold last year. These things are massive machines, did anyone on here ever get to run one?

Oh and this one had a price tag of 169k


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

Lewis Ranch said:


> Oh and this one had a price tag of 169k


169K?????? Can get a Krone or MF for a lot less money than that.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Lewis Ranch said:


> This is the second big baler our dealer sold last year. These things are massive machines, did anyone on here ever get to run one?
> 
> Oh and this one had a price tag of 169k


Massive? They don't seem any bigger then a Hesston, NH, or Krone. The JD dealer here has had one sitting on the lot all year. If they are $169k they better be willing to come down about $70k to get buyers to take a chance on one. Edit. Well on the JD website a 3x4 baler without any add ons had a list price of $156,500. Hesston had a list price of $151,700. However looking at options to add on the JD baler it appears the base is very base. So list price is sorta close.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

the JD dealer here has 19 stores in IL and Wi I'd guess about 6 or 7 stores have a market for hay eq. 1 has sat here for 10 months they did try to demo it it a couple times.. didn't here anything good about it and it doesn't help that the dealer has a reputation for a very poor service dept.. I did see it in a field .. but the front hood was up and there were 2 service trucks parked by it for 3 or 4 hrs... IDK maybe they were re-threading the twine


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

snowball said:


> the JD dealer here has 19 stores in IL and Wi I'd guess about 6 or 7 stores have a market for hay eq. 1 has sat here for 10 months they did try to demo it it a couple times.. didn't here anything good about it and it doesn't help that the dealer has a reputation for a very poor service dept.. I did see it in a field .. but the front hood was up and there were 2 service trucks parked by it for 3 or 4 hrs... IDK maybe they were re-threading the twine


So you have one on order yet?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

snowball said:


> the JD dealer here has 19 stores in IL and Wi I'd guess about 6 or 7 stores have a market for hay eq. 1 has sat here for 10 months they did try to demo it it a couple times.. didn't here anything good about it and it doesn't help that the dealer has a reputation for a very poor service dept.. I did see it in a field .. but the front hood was up and there were 2 service trucks parked by it for 3 or 4 hrs... IDK maybe they were re-threading the twine


Maybe they should try selling it in Texas.


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

I think they should have saved there money. Hesston krone new Holland are too established in that market to make a lot of people look at a green machine. Especialy what happened with the 100 series.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Teslan said:


> Massive? They don't seem any bigger then a Hesston, NH, or Krone.


I've never been around large square balers as they are far and few between around here, to me it seemed like a pretty big machine.

This one has the crop cutter and harvest tec applicator.

According to the salesman he has sold the only two in their region, took one newer Massey on trade and customer says this machine runs circles around it. Keep in mind this is just what I was told by the salesman.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

There are guys around here that are super loyal to John Deere. They have no limit of funding when it comes to buying equipment. All have demoed a new John Deere big baler . None purchase the Big Green I see everybody still pulling Hesstons.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I cant blame JD for trying to break into the market. Small bale market is fading fast and the round baler market is stagnet...

I did see one JD big baler here in Lancaster County. Cant remember where though...

Onelonelyfarmer on youtube demoed one. I think the only real negative he had was the price...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

bbos2 said:


> I think they should have saved there money. Hesston krone new Holland are too established in that market to make a lot of people look at a green machine. Especialy what happened with the 100 series.


What happened with the 100 series??

Big square balers aren't big sellers in Texas-- at least not in our area...

Don't know of a single one within several hundred miles...

Later! OL J R


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## bbos2 (Mar 20, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> What happened with the 100 series??Big square balers aren't big sellers in Texas-- at least not in our area...Don't know of a single one within several hundred miles...Later! OL J R


Basically it was a huge failure. From what I understand they bought plans off of krones older machines. Maybe they did some trading. It was around the time krone was putting the deere motor and cab on there MI triple mower. The 100 didn't have a prechamber or a double knitter. That's a lot of rope for one knot. I looked at one when I was start in out to try and save money, I think I saved money by buying the more expensive krone.

I'm willing to bet that deeres new machine is a great unit. Maybe one of the best. But if I were to buy a new big square again I think they would be at least 3rd in line for me just for the fact the others have proven themselves long term... And I have a lot of green equipment on this farm.


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> So you have one on order yet?


No Moose I think I will just keep running my old Hesstons since I pretty well know how to fix them and get excellent support from Maze corp. I didn't win the power ball either .. swmnhay is right maybe the Big greens need to stay in Tx. with their brother round balers


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

The deere 100 had problems with their poower feed clutch. It would slip iif you pushed it. So then you would tighten it a bit and you push it more... tighten...push....crack clutch housing. This was one problem. The pickups were designed light for a baler that size. Knotters weren't dependable. Bale density was essentially nonexistent. Ever pick up a bale at the bottom and end up carrying it by the top strings? Hope the field is smooth or you have a herd to feed the banana bales to. 
Other than that it had green paint so it must be good.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Farmineer95 said:


> The deere 100 had problems with their poower feed clutch. It would slip iif you pushed it. So then you would tighten it a bit and you push it more... tighten...push....crack clutch housing. This was one problem. The pickups were designed light for a baler that size. Knotters weren't dependable. Bale density was essentially nonexistent. Ever pick up a bale at the bottom and end up carrying it by the top strings? Hope the field is smooth or you have a herd to feed the banana bales to.
> Other than that it had green paint so it must be good.


Interesting...

Was this "rebranded 'Deere'" painted green or was this just a total FUBAR by the Deere boys that didn't know how to build a big square baler?? Seeing how almost all their other modern hay tools are mfg'd by someone else, I just have to wonder...

Really know nothing about big square balers... I've only seen them at farm shows-- NOBODY runs them within a few hundred miles of here to my knowledge... never even seen one in the field...

Around here it's all idgit bricks or big rounds...

I like the looks of the big squares-- in the past they've hauled them in from New Mexico (dairy mix hay) which really is too expensive to feed beef cows... they make a nice package, but very few guys around here would have a tractor big enough to run one... and most of them are all BTO row crop guys with no interest in hay/cattle...

Later! OL J R


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

it was a rebranded Krone I had more than my fair share to do with them Farmineer95 used way more kind words than I would


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

snowball said:


> it was a rebranded Krone I had more than my fair share to do with them Farmineer95 used way more kind words than I would


Really... can't hardly blame Deere for the shortcomings of machines they painted green and sold, other than the stupidity of rebranding a sorry machine and putting their name on it...

Can't figure why they'd want to rebrand something with such obvious flaws... or was it just a machine designed for different conditions and built lighter and people were trying to run them like some big gorilla machine built way heavier...

I guess stupid is as stupid does... wouldn't be the first time...

Later! OL J R


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## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Deer made some small changes to the 100 from what the original Krone was.. they secretly promoted it as a medium size baler but tried to place it in the 3x3 and 3x4 market it is not even a 3x3 baler it is 32"x 32"... the thing was a joke from day 1 the electronics were a nightmare the circuit board was mounted on the right hand side of the main gearbox for the plunger it was know to fail quite often .. gee I wounder way ??? nobody stocked parts the pickups were light duty along with the single tie knotters on a weak knotter frame the odd ball rake feed was a joke cause that gearbox would fly apart..... the best feature on the whole thing was the walking tandem axles ... I would rather eat a box of light bulbs than every care to look at a JD 100 baler again


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The 100 was not a baler, it was a large hay compressor that sometimes threw twine around it.

No stuffer, single knot bales, crappy pickup, and an odd sized bale. So happy the day my custom guy sold his 100s. Ironically, my best friend bought one of those 100s "cuz it was a good deal" I'd rather stick my face in a meat grinder than fix another 100.

I'm betting Deere fixed all of the issues the 100 had because they have a very hard uphill battle to fight to gain market share from Hesston, NH, and Krone.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Really can't blame John Deere for the shortcomings of the 100. I have heard we're guys were on flat ground always had a nice dry large even windrow they were half decent. A young fellow bought who did custom bailing for us and it was a nightmare that Baler never worked right one day . On the hillsides bales came out of the chamber so crooked they bent in a U and busted in half. The pickup was way under sized and always broke as well. And they didn't Tie . I have seen this conversation go the other way and have guys stick up for John Deere and let me tell you if you come to this area and line up every John Deere dealer and every John Deere mechanic and every John Deere salesman. They will all say those Balers IVshould have never been sold and the company had an indication there was a problem long before the first one hit the lot


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