# Thinking About a New Mower



## DelawareHay (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm planting my fields this fall and next Spring they should be thick with orchardgrass. I'm afraid when the time comes to cut my old JD 1207 sickle moco is going to clog up and give me trouble in thick hay. Are the rollers (that are definitely missing some rubber) really giving me much drying benefit in pretty much all grass hay? Maybe someone from around my area (Delaware) can tell me how a disc mower works for them. I only have about 50 pto hp, so I know I can't do a discbine. I suppose my options are sticking with my current haybine, or buying a disc mower or a drum mower. What about those 3 pt disc mowers that have the impeller conditioning? I can't decide. I will have a tedder for the hay so maybe mowing early with a disc mower and tedding the next day will make up for not having a conditioner? Any help is appreciated. - Kyle


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I run a 10 ft 3 point hitch mounted disc mower conditioner on an 85 pto hp tractor that weighs about 12,000 lbs. It is right at the limit for size and hp. If it was a shaft drive mower I'd probably never notice the power. Once in a while in heavy going I'll notice the rev's get pulled down.

With only 50 hp, you are likely to struggle to pickup even a 6 ft mounted mower conditioner. You can easily run a straight disc mower or get into a better condition haybine.

I don't know what the climate is there but here we almost need conditioning. If you aren't changing tractors anytime soon I'd stick to a sickle bar mower conditioner in better shape. If you aren't in a hurry, I know some folks run the IH 3309/NI5209/MF?? shaft bed disc mower conditioner with 50 pto hp on flat terrain. Its all the tractor can take in heavy going.


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## DelawareHay (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks for the help. It's a pretty big and heavy 50hp, but it sounds like I can rule out the 3 pt mounted moco. It's probably best that I don't work the tractor too hard with a discbine as I use it for everything and need to keep it running good. Maybe I should save a few years and get a used tractor and discbine moco. Out of curiosity, what kind of hay are you cutting in your area and what kind of conditioning, as in rolls or impellers?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

All grass hays with flails for ourselves. We had a NH489 in bad shape before going to the discbine.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Don't know what you want to spend, but a disc mower caddy would help your situation we've got people in these hills using 3,000-3,600 fords pulling 7 ft nh disc mowers


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

DelawareHay said:


> I'm planting my fields this fall and next Spring they should be thick with orchardgrass. I'm afraid when the time comes to cut my old JD 1207 sickle moco is going to clog up and give me trouble in thick hay. Are the rollers (that are definitely missing some rubber) really giving me much drying benefit in pretty much all grass hay? Maybe someone from around my area (Delaware) can tell me how a disc mower works for them. I only have about 50 pto hp, so I know I can't do a discbine. I suppose my options are sticking with my current haybine, or buying a disc mower or a drum mower. What about those 3 pt disc mowers that have the impeller conditioning? I can't decide. I will have a tedder for the hay so maybe mowing early with a disc mower and tedding the next day will make up for not having a conditioner? Any help is appreciated. - Kyle


I live right on PA/DE border and have a self propelled diesel haybine for sale. It has good rubber rollers, air conditioned cab, stereo, etc. 
Nice unit that needs very little work. I cut about 400 acres of hay with it last summer. 
I bought a PT NH discbine and I like it, but the cost to buy a high HP tractor plus the cost of the discbine was probably not worth it.
Gotta remember big HP tractors suck down a lot of fuel. My SP haybine is about 85hp non turbo diesel that's eeeezzzzzeee on fuel and cuts a 12' path and conditions the hay. 
Let me know if you're interested.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Not that I'm in that area, and I can't get a 12 ft anything into any of my fields but what does a SP sickle mower sell for? I see them for sale here once in a while but they are so uncommon the pricing is all over the map.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You are in my area? I thought you were in Canada? Lol

Anyway, they are worth between 7-12k. I'm asking 8k for mine. Would make someone a real nice mower.


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

Check out the prices of a Drum Mower before you decide. I just got a little 52" for my small hay field. It's been a great little hay mower and I have Orchard Grass. bjr


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## DelawareHay (Apr 5, 2013)

I would love a self propelled like that, but I can't justify that with only about 50 acres of hay a year. If I come across some money somehow I'll let you know lol. The drum mower is a possibility. I like the idea of not clogging up and not costing as much as other mowers. I'm just afraid of losing the conditioning. I don't know how much it really benefits me


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Whether you buy my mower or a drum mower, or any other kind of mower, you need conditioning rolls. Look at the weather were having. Those conditioning rolls make the difference of 1 or 2 days drying time.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

JD3430 thats what I meant! Thats a good price I think, we still see good conditioner 1465? 9 ft side pull sickle mocos for 5000-6000$ here.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> JD3430 thats what I meant! Thats a good price I think, we still see good conditioner 1465? 9 ft side pull sickle mocos for 5000-6000$ here.


Yeah, I thought mine was priced VERY low. Where you going to get an air conditioned diesel cab tractor with a 12' cutter and good conditioning rolls for $8,000? 
Runs and cuts great!


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## gf5205 (Jan 20, 2009)

I have a JD 5205 with about 48 PTO HP and pull a 7'10" Kuhn 243 discbine. It has the impeller conditioner. I could go faster with more HP, but I can mow thick and tall grass at 5 mph on fairly level ground.

Greg


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

JD how fast will that sp mow?


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

the drum mower may be a good choice. both reese and galfre offer mowers with conditioning systems. the reese system is a tedder/spreader that has a conditioning effect that many say gets dry down in alfalfa as fast as haybines. galfre has a conditioning system called black hole and an extremely impressive video on their website. for 'only' 50 acres i'd consider buying a drum mower w/o conditioning and following it up w a crimper available on craigslist for 250 -700 dollars right now there is one in jersey for 500 [does the same thing as the rolls on a haybine]. then use a tedder to spread it out. sounds like a lot of work but compared to the cost of other methods discussed its not to bad. they have very low maint costs. i'm going broke keeping my 1209 alive. for a non conditioning drum mower I'd use a zetor though there are a number of mfgrs out there it happens to be the heaviest ive run into. my local dealer had a customer cut a heavy T post off with one and all he had to do is replace the blades. you don't see many dealers selling them because there aren't a lot of repair or parts needed. less than half the profit in selling a diskbine is in the original sale. its the route i'm going to take this year or next. also for a new or used tractor to run a traditional diskbine or drum mower .i'd choose a zetor they have the most fuel efficient line of tractors in the world and no engine computers. all mechanical. as well as the most advanced 3pt hitch system in the world. the best part there are no Chinese parts. all East European or US. their 3pt control is coordinated by bosch electronics. they also have a 5 year warrantee. we need to start thinking out of the box here and drum mowers are used with success in wetter more humid climates than ours here in east pa, de and nj. oh yea these drum mowers can be run w tractors of 30 to 50 hp. and you can pu one up new w warrantee for 3600 - 5600 dollars. you would spend more than that on a well used diskbine and go broke on repair and parts.

greg


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

oh yea i'm in berks county pa


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

R Ball said:


> JD how fast will that sp mow?


It all depends on conditions. If its damp there's 2 speeds- slow and stay home. If its dry, I'd say 4 mph. 
Nice thing is that it has a 12' cut and visibility and comfort most people would kill for. No sore neck or back. It's also a lot easier on fuel than anything that one would use to pull a 10' or wider discbine. 
The one big drawback I have found switching from SP haybine to PT discbine is the fuel consumption. An 85hp N/A diesel uses about 1/2 the fuel of a 125HP turbo diesel.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Have you figured it to the acre yet? I found about a 20% increase in fuel per acre with the discbine, worth it for all the wet cutting here.

Have thought about dropping my conditioner and seeing how the straight disc is with a tedder. Probably bad.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Payments on discbine are more than payments on sp haybine. Throw in the tractor and its way more cost. 
Like you said, being able to mow when you want in virtually any conditions is nice. No clogs is nice. Mowing at 6+mph is real nice. Finishing faster and moving to next field is nice. , etc.


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## blueridgehay (Dec 25, 2012)

I loved to have SP mower, but with steep ground would be scared to get on it. Every tractor I got is 4x4 and they stay in it all the time. I mow with Krone disc 243 that I've had for goin on 10 years now. With the way my hay has a laid down this year, it would be real hard to mow with a sickle. My next purchase will be a disc bine. With only a 85hp tractor, I'm not sure if I got enough tractor. It might handle 9ft., thoughts?


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## Richardin52 (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm in Maine which is wetter than where you are. 
I use a 3pth NH 6730 disc mower on a NH TN60A which is rated at around 56HP.

Hay cut with a strait disc mower will dry faster than hay cut with a sickle bar. I have my mower set up to spread hay wide and thin and have gone from starting to cut hay to baling hay in as little as 24 hours.

I would have gotten the next size larger disc mower but have a lot of steep ground. If you have flat ground your tractor will do fine with a 6730.

A couple things I would point out. #1 My tractor is 2wd with just a canopy and no loader. It takes Hp to push extra weight around a field. #2 I have had both kuhn and NH disc mowers. It takes less HP to run a NH disc mower. #3 A 3pt hitch disc mower run right will cut the pants off any trailed mower as far as speed goes. Don't let someone that has only run mower conditioners tell you you have to have one.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I've had a different experience, I run both. My mounted disc mower-conditioner is:
-slower to hook up/ park
-faster to get in/out of my fields with small entrances
-same speed on long straight fields
-Slower on fields with lots of turns because on a mfwd you can't cut a clean 90 degree corner.



Richardin52 said:


> #3 A 3pt hitch disc mower run right will cut the pants off any trailed mower as far as speed goes. Don't let someone that has only run mower conditioners tell you you have to have one.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

blueridgehay said:


> I loved to have SP mower, but with steep ground would be scared to get on it. Every tractor I got is 4x4 and they stay in it all the time. I mow with Krone disc 243 that I've had for goin on 10 years now. With the way my hay has a laid down this year, it would be real hard to mow with a sickle. My next purchase will be a disc bine. With only a 85hp tractor, I'm not sure if I got enough tractor. It might handle 9ft., thoughts?


85hp should handle a CIH 3309/NI 5209/Massey 1359 . Nice light 9 ft. machine for those hills.


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## Richardin52 (Aug 14, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> I've had a different experience, I run both. My mounted disc mower-conditioner is:
> -slower to hook up/ park
> -faster to get in/out of my fields with small entrances
> -same speed on long straight fields
> -Slower on fields with lots of turns because on a mfwd you can't cut a clean 90 degree corner.


The fastest way to mow with a 3 pth disc mower is not the way you mow with a trailed mower. That's because 3 pth mowers do not do corners well and if done right are faster on the corners.

Make a couple passes around your field so you have turning room. Then start mowing long narrow sections always turning to you're right (cutter bar side) and up the other side of the same long narrow section. After a little practice you don't even have to slow down on the ends, you just hit the right brake peddle whip the tractor around and just that quick you going full speed up the other side.

Watch anybody using a trailed mower and they are always slowing down on the corners.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

blueridgehay said:


> I loved to have SP mower, but with steep ground would be scared to get on it. Every tractor I got is 4x4 and they stay in it all the time. I mow with Krone disc 243 that I've had for goin on 10 years now. With the way my hay has a laid down this year, it would be real hard to mow with a sickle. My next purchase will be a disc bine. With only a 85hp tractor, I'm not sure if I got enough tractor. It might handle 9ft., thoughts?


Just the opposite of what you think. A SP is virtually impossible to flip over. I have steep hills and cut right across hillside with no white knuckles. My sp tires are 10+ feet wide.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I think I'm in the same boat as many people in the northeast, lots of sub 1 acre fields. Fields 3,4,5,6,7,8 etc sides. Not much square or rectangular. I've mowed a lot of acres trailed and mounted. My best time per acre with the mounted comes when I ignore the corners on the first or second pass and reradius them to match what the mounted mower can handle. From there in the bar is always cutting instead of re-mowing the headlands a dozen times but you have to return and clean up corners on the backswath. Trailed I don't really slow down on turns unless really booking it, the tongue lets the mower almost stop while the tractor travels its arc.



Richardin52 said:


> Watch anybody using a trailed mower and they are always slowing down on the corners.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Gotta remember big HP tractors suck down a lot of fuel. My SP haybine is about 85hp non turbo diesel that's eeeezzzzzeee on fuel and cuts a 12' path and conditions the hay.
> Let me know if you're interested.


Yes and no. What can you buy more of? Time or fuel? Especially this year when time is of the essence as the forecast changes three times a day? When you figure out how to reasonably buy more time let me know.

I mowed over 70 acres the other day when the weather cleared, some for me, some for others. Never could have done it with a sickle machine as some of these were fields that I've tried to mow with my sickle machine in the past and could not do it even with a meticulously maintained machine, paid somebody with a discbine to do it.

While having to pay for a tractor plus the mower might seem like more, if the engine blows on the tractor that's mowing, just change tractors, if the engine blows in a SP mower your all done.

I'm around forty or so, been mowing hay since I was eight. Have personally wore out two of Dad's NH 495 haybines and run a hell of a lot of acres thru my NH 499, after buying a NH 1431 discbine you couldn't pay me enough to go back to a sickle machine that's using a hundred year old technology.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

mlappin, I feel the same way, spent way too much time under a haybine. I will say if I was going to stay with a haybine, I've been told by a lot of folks an SCH cutting setup will make a new machine out of it. At 1000$ to do a 9 ft bar though I'd want to be replacing worn out parts not new ones.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Yes and no. What can you buy more of? Time or fuel? Especially this year when time is of the essence as the forecast changes three times a day? When you figure out how to reasonably buy more time let me know.
> I mowed over 70 acres the other day when the weather cleared, some for me, some for others. Never could have done it with a sickle machine as some of these were fields that I've tried to mow with my sickle machine in the past and could not do it even with a meticulously maintained machine, paid somebody with a discbine to do it.
> While having to pay for a tractor plus the mower might seem like more, if the engine blows on the tractor that's mowing, just change tractors, if the engine blows in a SP mower your all done.
> I'm around forty or so, been mowing hay since I was eight. Have personally wore out two of Dad's NH 495 haybines and run a hell of a lot of acres thru my NH 499, after buying a NH 1431 discbine you couldn't pay me enough to go back to a sickle machine that's using a hundred year old technology.


I totally agree. If its dry hay and rain isn't on the way, haybine is more economical for me, but like you said, in a crazy spring like we're having, the time to cut is a lot less than half with a discbine. It cuts fast and it cuts wet grass. Allows you to cut in morning or night with dew. 
Part of it is my fault. I should have bought a little bit smaller tractor. 126 was too much. Should have gone with about 110, but at least I got a good deal on it. Paid less than a smaller unit.....
The fuel consumption is crazy though. My 70hp never seems to need fuel.


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

crazy fuel consumption is why I mentioned Zetor. Zetor a Czech tractor co that has made only diesel tractors since the 1940's they had the first high low trans. jd thought it was so good they used it in their tractors. its still the best most simple design. they also had zetor tractors painted green and yellow [with no alterations] and sent to south America as the jd 2000 series. other companies are using more heavy duty drivetrains in south America. stock zetors went there and did very well. zetor had no distribution there then. why didn't jd send jd tractors they're certainly not without models to send. maybe the zetors did better [gasp]. the only difference between the zetor tractors made in that time period the ones painted green and yellow and sent to south America was the paint. so I guess even jd feels that zetor tractors run like a Deere. maybe even out run a Deere [oh my]. why would an enormous co like jd buy tractors in hp ranges they have plenty of, from a much smaller co and send them somewhere?? only because they knew that these tractors were at bare minimum just as good. also zetor hit hard times in the economic crunch jd offered to buy a piece of the co or otherwise help them out. zetor and the Czech gov't said no but thanks for the offer.


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

richardin52

whar is the usual humidity level in your area??


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> I totally agree. If its dry hay and rain isn't on the way, haybine is more economical for me, but like you said, in a crazy spring like we're having, the time to cut is a lot less than half with a discbine. It cuts fast and it cuts wet grass. Allows you to cut in morning or night with dew.
> Part of it is my fault. I should have bought a little bit smaller tractor. 126 was too much. Should have gone with about 110, but at least I got a good deal on it. Paid less than a smaller unit.....
> The fuel consumption is crazy though. My 70hp never seems to need fuel.


Yes and no, if you over power a piece of equipment most of the time you'll use less fuel as you not lugging the engine down. I have a four hundred horse articulated tractor on the farm. Pulling a 26 foot disc, 26 foot field cultivaltor or a 30 foot vertical tillage tool you run at a fast idle and damn near in road gear and barely use any fuel for the amount of work getting done. If your looking at strictly at fuel burnt per hour it might seem like a fuel hog compared to a smaller tractor but not when you figure in what you get done for that gallon of fuel. The 400 hp tractor does turn into a real fuel hog if you hook our 25 foot chisel plow to it and sink it in 14" deep, but no other tractor on the farm can even move the chisel when its in the ground at a turtles pace let alone at 6-6 1/2 mph. Look at the work your getting done per hour, not at how much fuel it uses per hour. A discbine compared to a sickle machine is the exact same thing. Even in good standing hay a sickle machine can't begin to touch a discbine and again, what's easier to buy? Fuel or more time? If time could be bought the Rockefeller's, Kennedy's, etc would all live to 200+ years old.

But I also know what you mean about the fuel, most cuttings I can fill my Grandfathers 1600 Oliver diesel up and ted an entire cutting on one tank. About 23 gallons I think, this year with the crappy weather and multiple teddings I fell fifty acres shy of doing it on one tank of fuel. Would a smaller tractor yet have saved fuel? Most likely not as a smaller tractor would be working harder to do the same job. I know as I've used a tractor that was about 13 hp less but has the same size tank, have never come close to a whole cutting on one tank of fuel.

Up until you start getting just silly with adding horsepower usually the more horse you have the less fuel you burn as the engine isn't lugging down. Some tractors though are known fuel hogs. Worst ones in the White lineups were the 2-135's. Solid tractor, solid power shift, indestructible transmissions but the Hercules engine in them would burn damn near as much fuel under no load as a full load. Of course they were supposed to be 135hp from the factory but it wasn't unheard of to see em on a dyno turning out around 200hp or better. All kinds of power, just not very efficient about it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> mlappin, I feel the same way, spent way too much time under a haybine. I will say if I was going to stay with a haybine, I've been told by a lot of folks an SCH cutting setup will make a new machine out of it. At 1000$ to do a 9 ft bar though I'd want to be replacing worn out parts not new ones.


We ran the SCH systgem on our grain platforms. originally went to em when we used to raise Sorghum for bird seed. On really good Sorghum the stalks wouldn't fit far enough in to the guards on the White/Agco/Gleaner Kiwk Cut guards and then the heads would be pushed over. Have found the SCH handle 200+ b/a cornstalks in no-till soybeans better than anything else we have tried.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

If you take your time to figure it out you can cut a corner and never miss any grass at the same speed as you normally cut,it is possible I do it all the time, when I first started cutting hay grandpa put me on tractor and said it could be done and it was up to me to figure it out, And it better not take to many rounds!! He was right( like he usually was) and I still do it. He's 86 yrs old runs about 40 cows and put up his own hay for them. I thank God for him he has taught me alot.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe its because my mounted mower is quite far rearward behind the tire I'm not sure but no matter what speed, my MFWD tractor simply cannot make a clean 90. To turn to align for the next side even at full lock, the mower is pulled out of the crop more than 10 ft before the corner (about 15 ft) so 5 ft of triangle is left next pass.

If I turn at full lock at speed it tears up the soil on corners and I get weed growth in those areas. So nice lazy corners are my ticket and I mow the X if I miss anything.



bluefarmer said:


> If you take your time to figure it out you can cut a corner and never miss any grass at the same speed as you normally cut,


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## askinner (Nov 15, 2010)

I'd be worried about putting my tractor wheels up if I tried to make a 90 turn at straight-line cutting speed! Cut the headlands, then straight up and down for me, I hate baling corners...


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

You don't wanna know how I do it "cuz it ain't very efficient! Once I have a piece opened up I make an outside turn at each corner! I'm not in a big rush, and generally mow with the 5610 in 5th gear at PTO speed. I usually go 3 times around, and then do the back swath before starting the outside turns. That gives me just over 30' to make the outside turns without throttling back or using the brakes. Also, I don't have to worry about hitting the discbine tongue with the tractor tire!


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

*if your still thinking of a drum mower Kuhn has a line in the states now http://www.zavesnatechnika.cz/soubory/pz_english-6d7967.pdf*

*this is the link to the pdf brochure some have flail conditioning and/or a spreader attachment*


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

bluefarmer said:


> If you take your time to figure it out you can cut a corner and never miss any grass at the same speed as you normally cut,


I routinely mow at 8-12 mph.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The faster I mow, the better the discbine seems to cut


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