# Horsey People



## swmnhay

Lady called for some grass hay sounded real fussy.Told her I had some 2nd cutting Orchard/bluegrass.Ex hay,no rain,fine hay.She didn't know what Orchard or bluegrass was she only wanted Brome nothing else.Jeeezz I guess customer is always rite


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## okhillbilly

Forget about her. Thier is plenty of other sales out there. I have people that move here from out of state ask me for timothy hay. Here in Oklahoma timothy won't survive the hot summers. They can look around till they find somebody that's imported it. Not my problem.


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## BCFENCE

Swm you cant please them all, No matter what you have they want something diffrent.
THOMAS


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## nwfarmer

If I think I can pick up a new customer I'll cut a bale open, (a ground bale) let them decide. Sometimes we tell them too much. LOL. If they see pretty green inside and it is a fairly hefty bale I can usually make the sale. I push the things like we keep the hay covered, (In the west most hay gets stored outside) they don't have to take ground bales, hay in the stack is better than ground bale I cut open. If I think I'm almost making a sale but not quite I'll just give them 1 bale and tell them to feed it side by side with their other hay they have. I've picked up several customers because their horses preferred my hay to the other hay they have. Sometimes it is tough because I'm asking about $30 a ton more than market in the area this year.


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## sedurbin

We have nutrition tests done on all our hay, it make a great sales tool. Part of the marketing is to engage and educate the Customer. Keep articles about Horse Nutrition, on hand, and pass it along to the Customer to read. Generally they appreciate this and will buy our hay. I kind of like the fussy Customers they are generally easier to inform and educate than the person that just wants a cheap bale of hay.


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## leo

nevermind they they always want it for nothing I use them to get rid of my hay thats not Florida quality


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## Heyhay..eh

This might be of interest!

Generally I have the same experience with horse folks, fussy, want the best for nothing, insufferable.

This year haying in our area was an unmitigated disaster. There is not much to be had and that which is available is generally not top quality, too much rain too old before cutting, you name it. The horse folks have changed their tune. Just give me some hay, whatever the price, don't care too much about the quality, can wash the dust off with snow ...

I have to take a second look to see if they are the same people. .... unbelievable!

Take care


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## sedurbin

> When horsemen are asked for a definition of good hay, they often list:
> 
> •* The hay must be green.
> •* There should be no dust or mold.
> •* There must be fine stems and lots of leaves.
> •* There can be no weeds.
> •* It must not have blister beetles.
> •* The hay cannot have been rained upon.
> •* There has to be at least 70 percent alfalfa.
> •* Hay must be less than $1.50 a bale


*Clipped from Purdue Forage Information By:*

Mark A. Russell, Department of Animal Sciences and
Keith D. Johnson, Department of Agronomy
Cooperative Extension Service
Purdue University
West Lafayette, IN 47907


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## nwfarmer

Hay sales is slow but we're still getting $4.75 a bale. About $150 a ton.


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## nwfarmer

I have noticed more and more of the horse hay is being priced out per bale in the hay reports around here. We started pricing it by the bale a few years ago since we don't have a scale and we started to see trucks and trailers gaining weight from month to month. I would ask them to leave their weight tickets when they bought hay. A month or two later when they came back the same empty truck or trailer gained quite a bit of weight.


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## mlappin

Heyhay..eh said:


> This might be of interest!
> 
> Generally I have the same experience with horse folks, fussy, want the best for nothing, insufferable.


That's why I quit making small squares altogether and went to rounds.

Then for some reason a few of em decided hay was hay regardless of the shape of the bale.

Then a few more of em caught on.

A little over 60% of the rounds I sold went to horses last year.

Right back to putting up with em.









Maybe big squares will scare em off?


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## swmnhay

nwfarmer said:


> I have noticed more and more of the horse hay is being priced out per bale in the hay reports around here. We started pricing it by the bale a few years ago since we don't have a scale and we started to see trucks and trailers gaining weight from month to month. I would ask them to leave their weight tickets when they bought hay. A month or two later when they came back the same empty truck or trailer gained quite a bit of weight.


I noticed they are requiring a stamped wt ticket at local hay auction for both full and empty wt.Used to be alot would just get a gross wt and fill in empty wt.Save a trip to the scale.The buyer could always request a rewieght.Which was a pain for seller,wiegh full again go unload and back to town wiegh again.

It's hard to stop a crook they will find a way to cheat and make it a pain for everyone else.Have coffee at local gas station noticed hay trucks filling up after they are loaded than they go and wiegh at elevator.Hmmm.Was my local compatiton,they are no longer in business.


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## chief-fan

In this area (SW Iowa) all the hay sold at auctions, sale barns, etc. is sold by the bale. Even when the load of 100 is set off in 25 bales piles, still by the bale take the whole pile or whole load. I usually sell one load at each of tow local sale barns. Use them for advertising as my name is on the tag for each pile. I have picked up some customers that way. I can get more selling it private and less work involved as most load their own trailers. Have 2 customers that prefer to pick it up out of the field. I let them know when I am going to cut and about when it will be baled. They follow the baler or shortly after and pick up their own. Once the bale hits the ground it is their bale. Every area is different I have found out. Any new customer that call I tell them to come and look and then decide if they want my hay or not.


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## swmnhay

Guy just called for 1 bale of hay for his FIL's horses.I can see the place rite now from my window 1 3/4 miles away.He said he did not make it to salebarn on Sat to buy hay which is 28 miles away.They have never bought hay from me before,have asked a few times if I had hay.

I guess he prefers to drive 28 miles.Stand in cold for hour or 2.Pull hay rack home 28 miles @ 20mph.Maybe fix flat tire.Unload it.Take empty hay rack back 28 miles.









Well at least he is picking it up and didn't want it delivered.









Hope the check is good.


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## downtownjr

I would deliver...25 bucks for the trip...does he even know what he is buying at the auction or does he think he is getting by cheap? I know people that spend a buck to save a dime...dimwits...couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag


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## swmnhay

Well he was there on time.









Got him loaded a 1600# bale in a dodge dakota pickup.









It was sagging a bit.









It was actually sitting on the sides of the box and had a couple inches between bale and floor of the box.









He thought he would just roll it out when he got home.


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## BCFENCE

He may have to park the truck and feed it off one flake at a time, LOL
THOMAS


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## swmnhay

downtownjr said:


> I would deliver...25 bucks for the trip...does he even know what he is buying at the auction or does he think he is getting by cheap? I know people that spend a buck to save a dime...dimwits...couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag


He told me when he was here about all the bad hay he has got at salebarn.Crap in the middle of the bales.Moldy in middle of bale.Cans, plastic bottles and garbage(ditch hay)And how some of the bales don't have anything in them.Should of sold him a 2000# bale but did not want to pop his tires

I wonder if he got it out with out wrecking the box or tailgate:confused:

Maybe he parked it in horse pen for a bale feeder:rolleyes:


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## swmnhay

Another One.

Horse lady called yesterday at noon.Wondering if I could bring hay she was out.It was snowing already with the blizzard moving in.I had 4 loads to deliver to another regular customer who grinds every 2 weeks and I have to have hay there.She is a reg customer also but I have told her many times I would like a 2-3 day notice.It just doesn't sink in.Well I couldn't make it yesterday.And today had cattle waterer froze up and had to dig out.So I guess I'll get it there tomorrow.

Kinda burns me everyone knew the storm was coming in but wait until last min and want me to do it now.


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## Barry Bowen

All the customers think the farmer never has anything else to do.


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## kamper24T

Scanning the local craigslist there is always somebody selling or buying hay that doesn't have a clue. Today's winner is this seller:

timithy/alalfa hay fr/sale/sm sqaures - $5(ADEL,IOWA)


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## river rat

kamper24T said:


> Scanning the local craigslist there is always somebody selling or buying hay that doesn't have a clue. Today's winner is this seller:
> 
> timithy/alalfa hay fr/sale/sm sqaures - $5(ADEL,IOWA)


Other than they won't win a spelling contest I can't find fault. Please explain?


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## kamper24T

Clearly the misspelled words were what I was getting at. Not saying I'm perfect, or that there is anything wrong with the hay. My point is you should at least be able to spell what you're selling. Any salesman will tell you that.


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## Production Acres

It is nice to imagine that all successful farmers have a college education and that anyone who can bale a good bale of hay can be very articulate about it, but in the real world, a good percentage of farmers are not even computer literate, nor do they spell correctly. One truck driver that works for me pronounces alfalfa as "alfalfer hay". We all know what he is talking about. Have another guy that works for us that cannot read more than about a kindergarden level - but he runs equipment very well!

What is funny is when a school textbook shows a picture of herford cattle with a description of dairy cattle. Or when a TV commercial shows polled female cows and a horned bull and explains that is how you tell the difference - just like deer!

Or the guy who has "a 2yr old cow for sale - He is a Steer!"


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## wheatridgefarmMD

Sold a load of hay to a customer for $5.00/ bale delivered, little did I know they expected me to unload and stack by myself. A buddy of mine works for these "horsey" people and came to me and said that the horse caretaker had informed him that the horses really liked my hay over what they were buying previously. They paid me through my buddy's paycheck and he had to cut me a check for the hay. Didnt like this idea but it was good money and they were going to be a regular customer of about a 100 bales a month or so. Not bad for my operation. Time came for them to need another load, they called my buddy who called me. I work shift work and the weather has not been favorable for hauling hay approx 45 minutes on an open trailer. Gave me about 3 days notice, long story short the "property supervisor" called me while I was finishing up baling during a streak of good weather (about a week after my buddy called) and just short of cussed me up one side and down the other for not having the hay there by now and that my services would no longer be needed that they would go elsewhere. So now ive been informed that they are paying 7-8 dollars a bale plus 35 dollar delivery charge plus additional for stacking. For whats basically straw. Hay market may be in a slump but I do not feel that I lost a great deal with them.


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## buckeye

About seven years ago I got tired of dealing with the "horsey" as you call them and decided to sell only wholesale. I kept two customers that take truck load lots and stopped selling to the rest. I sell to a gentleman that is very social and outgoing and likes dealing with people of all kinds. It has turned out to be a good deal for both of us.


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## Itsalwayssomething

I get LOTS of people telling me they want timothy hay. I've asked a few of them to identify the timothy in a bale. Even though it's about the easiest seed head to identify, they have no idea. They heard somewhere that horses like timothy and they're sticking to it. I like to show them what the timothy plant looks like by the time it's usually baled - which is a long stem and a large seed head.

I agree, I like fussy customers. They like information. For instance, the surprising protein levels in the different grasses. Or why they don't want the stylish "organic hay".

Oh, I could go on and on...


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Well, now I have seen it all! Delivered a load of timothy to a new customer yesterday. Everything was fine. They gave it the look and smell test and we off loaded the hay and they stacked it in their barn. After unloading, I was rolling up my tarp and straps and noticed a couple of people out in the pasture doing something. When I inquired about what they were doing, I was told that they were picking up the manure in the field! I asked how come they didn't just pull a drag over it and was told that it wouldn't break down in the pasture so they pick it up and then pile it. I laughed all the way to lunch after that. It really tickled me. Horsey people are something. Now, I hope the check clears. Mike


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## Production Acres

It is a very common practice on small horse paddocks. They pick up the manure such that the horses don't ingest the manure as they are grazing and reinfest themselves with worms. Small horse farms don't have enough acreage to rotate pastures and let the pasture rest after they drag the paddock. This has become a major problem in the goat community as they are constantly worming their animals and many worms are now resistant to ivermectin. Many of the smarter horse community with smaller acreages are trying to prevent this worm restistance issue by removing the worm eggs and larvea.


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## Barry Bowen

What you say makes total sense. A friend of mine with sheep, goats, llamas, and alpacas is having so much trouble worming. Is there anything new on the market or better to worm under these bad conditions?


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## NDVA HAYMAN

PA, The funny part of this is they have 2- 20 acre pastures and just 2 horses. I don't think they would have a problem although what you said makes perfect sense. My father keeps 50-60 race horses on pasture and never has a problem with worms. I think the cold temps are taking care of that at the moment.


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## lonnie

the big bales does not scare them they just want color and no dust or mold very few look at protien or nut. value


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## hay hauler

Had one tell me that they hay was "bad" because the bales were too tight and they didn't fall apart correctly&#8230; The hay was the driest we have put up no reading on the moister (I think it stops at 10 %?) and no rain bailed dry just to catch up. Turns out she used an old bailer that made 30 pound 3 ft bales (the strings would touch your chest before the bale came off the ground) on her place and if a bale did not fall apart like hers then they were no good and moldy&#8230;







Supposedly she grew up on a farm&#8230;.


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## swmnhay

One of my horsey people who I was holding a couple checks from called early friday.I had the ok to cash them on friday and they had OTHER BILLS that had to be paid so they were short.Well atleast I got to cash one

They are good people and always pay me eventualy.But it's crazy to have more horses around than you can afford to feed.Is 14 to many:confused:


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## hay hauler

swmnhay,

It seems like a lot to me... but some in our area are "Saving" them by keeping big #'s on small lots.







Then tell me I need to donate or give them hay via emails....







They wont even ask in person:rolleyes: The internet is useful but something's should be done face to face!


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## tw30

i know where your coming from. i mean you gotta run a business , are they to embarresed to ask you in person ?.I have a great uncle who lived a rough life till about 3 yrs ago and now he has horse's to keep him busy.There like family to him he only gets about 600$ month and he can barley feed them . i know some people say if you cant take care of it get ride of it .but to him their like children or something they keep him relaxed and what not . i wish i had hay to give him . he has 3 horses 1 still growing 1 pure bread horse other just a oldie lol. how many bales do they need for 14 horses ? 3-5 ? how much do you produce ? can you give them a little without running into finniacial error or give them a discount or somthing? . But that just me i try to help everyone i get it from my Dad & Mom


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## swmnhay

hay hauler said:


> swmnhay,
> 
> It seems like a lot to me... but some in our area are "Saving" them by keeping big #'s on small lots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then tell me I need to donate or give them hay via emails....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They wont even ask in person:rolleyes: The internet is useful but something's should be done face to face!


I recieved emails also to donate hay.If they want me to donate hay why can't they donate some time and run a tractor.I'm more than willing to pay them to run tractor and they can use the money to buy the hay.

Had a lady wanted some free hay because money was tight.Well I suppose it would be if you didn't have a job drank a case a beer a day and smoked a couple packs of cigs.


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## tw30

i agree some people are ass backwards and others are not , you cant pitty the stupid but you can help the needy


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## mlappin

swmnhay said:


> I recieved emails also to donate hay.If they want me to donate hay why can't they donate some time and run a tractor.I'm more than willing to pay them to run tractor and they can use the money to buy the hay.
> 
> Had a lady wanted some free hay because money was tight.Well I suppose it would be if you didn't have a job drank a case a beer a day and smoked a couple packs of cigs.


I was selling hay to the local horse rescue. Worked decent, they always paid in cash, which usually consisted of 5's, 10's, maybe a 20 and usually a hand full of change. Sold em quite a bit, then the can you sell it cheaper? Lowered the price a little, then again, can you sell it cheaper? By this point in time I told em if it got any cheaper, not only would I have to deliver it, but why don't I just go ahead and pay you to take it?

Seemed to piss em off or something that I wasn't willing to lose money on feeding _somebody__ else's_ critters. I'll feed it to my beefcows before i give it away.


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## NCSteveH

mlappin said:


> Seemed to piss em off or something that I wasn't willing to lose money on feeding _somebody__ else's_ critters. I'll feed it to my beefcows before i give it away.


Amen, plus if things get real tight you can eat your cows, Wonder what they would think of putting their old hayburner on the grill?


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## swmnhay

NCSteveH said:


> Amen, plus if things get real tight you can eat your cows, Wonder what they would think of putting their old hayburner on the grill?


A guy was telling me a few yrs ago that he stopped at a friends house around noon one day.He says come on in for dinner.So as they are having dinner the guy says giddy up before he has a bite of roast.









Well the kids were moved away and he was tired of feeding it.And it is ate in other parts of the world.Sooo

He said it was pretty good.


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## swmnhay

Guy calls and wants 1 bale of alf/orchard #1600,delivered 30 miles for $25.


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## Production Acres

$100 for the freight bill and then we can talk about the price of the hay;.)


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## NDVA HAYMAN

A young girl walks into the hay field that I was baling and flagged me down. She said that she saw the pretty hay I was baling and needed to buy some. I said OK and asked how much she needed. She said she needed one bale to feed her rabbits! When she asked me how much, I told her $10 and she could get the one that I dropped from the grapple in the field! OH BOY!


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## swmnhay

The latest one.

Can you hold that check another 2 weeks that I gave you 4 weeks ago.


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## Shawns71

I got horses and good ones at that, I put up nice Timothy and clover with about 20% alfalfa, My grandfather taught me how to put up hay, all the local farmers put up some real crappy hay since its not for them and the ask cheap prices, ($2.00 for a small square) then when horses start to founder and colic the vet sends them to me, theres good money in good horse hay, you just gotta tell the idiots go buy some place else. What do you all think of Silo-King applicators, my 336 JD has one on it and I'm gonna try it out this year, Its new to me.


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## OneManShow

95% of our hay goes to horse folks. I won't complain about them-as they are the the only reason we're in business. But- I did have a customer (female) argue that our hay was too green-so it must be wet-and she got some green hay that was wet, and then it git mold, and she didn't want to go through that again because her horses are very sensitive to dusty mold. . . . I told her it was 14% moisture. She didn't believe me, so I jammed our moisture meter in a couple bales and showed her. She was still skeptical-and then said she could get hay from another guy that was at 13% moisture-So, I told to go get her from the 13% guy-(he's about 250 miles away)-and I haven't sold to her since. Had another guy show up with a bathroom scale-he intended to weigh each bale, then pay by the pound, since we had our hay priced by the ton. We changed to per bale pricing only. I could go on but. . . Don't want to start complaining.


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## Edster

Barry Bowen said:


> What you say makes total sense. A friend of mine with sheep, goats, llamas, and alpacas is having so much trouble worming. Is there anything new on the market or better to worm under these bad conditions?


Nothing new. You just have to keep rotating wormers.


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## txhayman

I know exactly what everybody is talking about with these "horse people" and usually they are the middle age woman who is not afraid to ask for anything that will make you go out of your way or put you in a bind, but to this day, I have never been given a bad check from this type of buyer. It's the "new to the business" hay brokers that will bounce the checks and it always happens during the dry years. Hay will be in short supply and they want to buy out the whole barn. The first time it happened, the buyer left the state and made no attempts to make good on the check, but 8 months later he got stopped for speeding and the police hauled him in. It took awhile but I eventually got my $3800. I've learned from my mistakes and now I will not hesitate to call the bank on any large purchases.


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## tnwalkingred

I'm a "horsey' person as I have been breeding and training horses for over ten years now. I have always put up my own hay but have just recently started selling to the public. All the people I sell to are horse people and I agree some are a little harder to please than others however most are good customers. I'm not sure how it is in your areas but around here if it wasn't for the "horsey" people there wouldn't be ANY hay business. Most of the beef and dairy producers around here put up there own hay so I myself am thankful for the "horsey" people. I printed off a 10 page article from the state ag extension and now I give a copy to all my customers showing them how to produce high quality hay. This has really helped eliminate most of the questions and allows them to see for themselves what kind of product I'm selling. Here is a link to the one I'm giving to my customers. It's cheap enough to run off a few copies and may save you a few headaches. Hope it helps.

Kyle

http://utextension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/SP437-A.pdf


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## Vol

90% of my small square buyers are Horse people. I sell my small squares between $5-$6 per bale. Good luck trying to get that price out of the Bovine market. Yes, some horse people can be a PITA, but that is the way of the general population of this country. I now have my hay tested for DM results by a lab in NY that specializes in results that primarily interest equine owners. I guarantee my hay to be clean and mold free. If they get too aggrevating I get right to the point of what I have and the price is not negotiable. For most, that generally is all that it takes. I need Horse People. Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Drove by one of my Horsey customers and there was a few bales of someone elses hay there.Burns my azz.They owe me for last 2 loads and were going to take care of it last week.The have always pd me and I've always worked with them on this.I always deliver it and bring skidloader and put a couple bales in hay feeders.And many a time she calls and she is out of hay even tho I've told her many a time I would like 3 days notice.I maybe driving by and could save me some miles/time.

The bales there are 1/2 the size of mine so she probably thought she got a deal at 1/2 price.They are also ditch hay that was just cut so feed value is crap and they get the beer cans and other garbage from the ditch in the hay.Mine was 1st cut Alf/Orchard/Ryegrass.

Not a huge account but big enough to bug me,80 Ton a yr.

Just another thing in this crappy year.


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## swmnhay

I got my first bounced check back ever for hay.Yep a horsey account.First bad check in 30 yrs of doing this so have been pretty fortunate.


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## mlappin

Yup, only bad check I ever got was from a horsey customer as well. That *sshole disappeared before ever making good on it.


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## dbergh

I agree that horsey folks are a bit different in some cases but they are what make the world go 'round for a lot of us selling hay and I also like the diversity of cattle, horse and dairy in my customer mix so that a downturn in one segment doesn't have a terrible impact on my bottom line. Also allows me to move all grades of hay most of the time. 
Have not had any bad checks in quite a few years although some do have to go through twice to be good once in a great while. 
Horse folks are a bit more high strung than most but my experience is they are good customers once you build that relationship and the trust factor is there. I weed out the crazies and the price shoppers pretty quick and work really hard to cater to my good loyal customers.


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## GOOD HAY

All of our small squares go to horses except for two customers, one with beef and one with sheep. We have about 20 customers for 18000 bales and there is very little turn over form year to year. The horse people are very loyal. We have been baling and selling hay for about 20 years in Eastern Ontario. In our area there are not very many people making small squares any more. We do have a bit of a captive market but we still work hard at making the best quality that the weather will allow and provide the best service that we can with what we have to work with. Always have to keep in mind that I am dealing with people who do not understand how hay is made and what it takes to get that nice bale. The best customers are those who have tried to make there own hay, most fail dismally or if not would rather pay the price than go to all the work for a thousand bales when they can get it from me and be done in a few hours.


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## mlappin

GOOD HAY said:


> The best customers are those who have tried to make there own hay, most fail dismally or if not would rather pay the price than go to all the work for a thousand bales when they can get it from me and be done in a few hours.


Yup, see that a lot a well.


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## Mike120

You guys will be delighted to hear that the latest issue of Practical Horseman has an article about hay and some of the brilliant questions to ask about hay. My favorite question is in Hay for Boarded Horses that asks "If I want my horse to be fed extra hay (or soaked hay or a particular type of hay), what do I need to do? My answer......Take him someplace else! Actually it's a pretty decent piece, but it gives questions to ask with too littls background for the average horse owner. The last thing female horse owners need are more questions to ask..........


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## NCSteveH

Those questions are why I will not budge at all with the horsey people. plus I know what my costs are and want to make a profit. but I think the best customers that I have are the goat farmers. those animals will eat just about anything!


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## maknhay

That's some funny stuff Mike120.........


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## scrapiron

Just had a complaint from a horsey gal customer. Moved here 3 yrs ago from New Jersey, and has 37 yard ornaments, hay burners,sand stompers, what ever you want to call them. From mini's up to draft horses on 15 acres. Been feeding my hay for about 45 days. Found 1 dead weed stem in a roll of hay, and get this said:" YOUR HAY IS MAKING MY HORSES FAT"!!!!
Well she might not get any more hay from me and I think that is a compliment as to the quality of hay I was able to grow and bale this year.

Pizzed me off but made me feel good at the same time.

scrapiron


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## maknhay

She gonna blame the grocery store she shops at if she herself gains 10lbs?????


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## David in Georgia

Gotta love stupid people


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Monkey See, Monkey Do ???


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## NCSteveH

scrapiron said:


> Just had a complaint from a horsey gal customer. Moved here 3 yrs ago from New Jersey, and has *37* yard ornaments, hay burners,sand stompers, what ever you want to call them. From mini's up to draft horses on *15* acres............
> 
> scrapiron


She think she's running a horse rescue? it's a wonder she didn't try to hit you up for some free hay. I'd like to see what her pasture looks like, probably not a blade of grass anywhere to be found.


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## swmnhay

Guy down the road felt sorry for his horsey gal nieghbor so he let them fence off his unused pasture to graze.When the grass was gone and their ribs started showing he called me to bring some hay to feed them and he pd for it.After he did it once she thought he could get them some more hay for free.Give them an inch and they want a mile.

Well chit hit the fan.The guy took the fence out and told them to feed there own horses.And a few months later the horsey gal made the paper for animal neglect.


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## NCSteveH

Hate to say it but there was a reason for the glue factory years back.


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## mlappin

I can't complain to much though, have one horse guy who buys a lot of 1st cutting from me in round bales for his hayburners. Never had a check bounce, never had him not show up without getting a phone call first and like usual, was five minutes early again today. He's gonna come back for two more loads tomorrow so I won't have to mess around loading him up while the wife is recuperating from surgery.

But yah, I've had some other horsey folks that if I could get away with it, I'd rather just shoot em than look at em.


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## swmnhay

NCSteveH said:


> Hate to say it but there was a reason for the glue factory years back.


Horsey gals husband made the comment that the horse market tanked.

I said to bad they closed the horse slaughter market.At least people could get something for the older unwanted horses.Ooops!! If looks could kill.









Oh well still selling them hay.Musta got over it.


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> Horsey gals husband made the comment that the horse market tanked.
> 
> I said to bad they closed the horse slaughter market.At least people could get something for the older unwanted horses.Ooops!! If looks could kill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well still selling them hay.Musta got over it.


They are still livestock.....Where the market really tanked was for the cheap grade horses. They were generally the ones that ended up at slaughter. Now they are overwhelming the horse rescue, tree hugging folks who caused this mess to begin with. The market for high-priced imports, well-bred horses, and well-trained horses has slowed down because of the economy, but it's certainly not gone. The prices are still pretty much the same as they have always been, there's just less noise in the marketplace.


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## dbergh

Out in Idaho it's a tough market for horses. Lots of "free to a good home" ads out there.
This is a mess- lots of these need to go to slaughter to clear the market.
I get hit up to donate free hay to a number of these do gooders that decide to start a rescue operation, then realize these critters eat a lot of feed! 
We also have the same scenario every time the desert burns up and they have to go rescue the wild mustangs. 
I guess people figure we just do this for the fun of it and can afford to give my product away (I do love putting up hay but it isn't a cheap proposition in my area!). Every ton I donate is a missed sale that would have made money-don't mind being charitable but this slaughter situation has really exacerbated the issue to the point where it is getting ridiculous.


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## scrapiron

The "lady" that complained that my hay "Made her horses fat" just called and wants 4 rolls tomorrow. I will load them for her when she get here IF I am not raking or baling then, if I am she might have to wait for a few minutes {or an hour}.

scrapiron


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## country boy

talked with a guy the other day that said at the horse auctions if you dont lock your trailer doors you could come back to a trailer full of horses


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## mlappin

country boy said:


> talked with a guy the other day that said at the horse auctions if you dont lock your trailer doors you could come back to a trailer full of horses


LOL, kinda like years ago when hogs took a dump eh? Take 20 in, can't sell em, get home and find 30 on the trailer.


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## Dill

ASPCA has to understand how much the closer of horse slaughter is hurting actually horses. I know a few people who have woken up to extra horses in their pasture. And the whole "rescue" thing is completely out of control. Most have gone under around here once they learn how much it actually costs to keep horses. The few remaining won't accept horses. And the people who are trying to get rid of horses can't even afford to bury them if they put them down.


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## swmnhay

mlappin said:


> LOL, kinda like years ago when hogs took a dump eh? Take 20 in, can't sell em, get home and find 30 on the trailer.


Reminds me of a nieghbor that hired another nieghbor to haul 6 horses to auction.They didn't bring enough so he no saled them and bought 6 more.He than bought a bigger acreage that had pasture and 10 acres of alfalfa.He got behind on his payments and left in the middle of the night.Emptied the house and took the horses.Left the place a mess and bills all over.He left a tractor at my mechanics place that had a lien against it for repairs.

Fortunatly I never did bussines with the guy.


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## swmnhay

The latest excuse!Horsey lady had to help her kid out or they were going to shut off his power.Actualy they put some sort of time limiter on it and it only is on so many hrs a day.Evidently it happened to them before and supposedly screwed up thier fridge.

Lets see now,the kid is maybe 30.Whats wrong here?


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## Nitram

"Lets see now,the kid is maybe 30.Whats wrong here? "
1. She has horses.
2. She has a 30 yr old child.
3. I LMAO (cause after 3 yrs I still am putting my Ex's Arab up for free!)


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## kimpossibly

swmnhay said:


> Lady called for some grass hay sounded real fussy.Told her I had some 2nd cutting Orchard/bluegrass.Ex hay,no rain,fine hay.She didn't know what Orchard or bluegrass was she only wanted Brome nothing else.Jeeezz I guess customer is always rite:confused:


lol...well maybe 'not so much' always right, but these days its very easy to become frustrated with what is happening in my own personal area. i would very much love to hear the ideas, suggestions and thoughts of REAL hay growers. apparently, kansas has very few of these in about a 100+ radius of Wichita and they are taking advantage of the small guy who has a job/family and doesnt profit on the horse industry. Its no secret that the horse market is struggling especially for those who are just wanting to be able to have a couple of backyard horses, 4-H projects, clean family fun and also those who are good enough to dedicate their lives and finances to help those horses needing rescued. Then you have people like myself who has 'been there, done that' over the last 30 years and is happy just in having horses, caring for horses and wouldnt know a life without them that just wants to see the two groups come together and work towards goals that dont only fit the needs of one side or the other. The experiences that i have had personally are sad. Not all of them, but for the most part over the last two years have been disappointing, frustrating, expensive and all but hopeless where any relief is concerned. I know the difference between Horse QUALITY hay and the hay that these wanna be guys are trying to pass off on horse hay buyers as Horse Quality Hay. that is precisely why i signed up on this site. I thought some of you guys that are the 'real deal' could lend a few minutes or more to enlighten me on how to curb the desire some of these fluke, get rich, unfair crap hay sellers from continuing to claim things that are not true. its becoming a domino effect. more and more are doing it. one example of that very thing, last year i found a guy that between him and his father, hay farm about 2000 square bales to the best of my 'guestimation'. they raise oat hay, brome and a little alfalfa. i dont (generally speaking) buy any alfalfa from the weekender producer. its just a policy of mine. i dont generally buy or use oat hay either. my preference is high quality prairie hay since i have always had excellent results with feeding it, and its always been in that price range of affordability for someone with many horses. up until recently it has been a very reliable and for the most part, fair in price to both buyer and seller. this one particular grower didnt/doesnt grow prairie hay and there wasnt much of it around for sale due to the lack of moisture/rain, so i was basically in a position to have to switch over to what was available within the mile range i mentioned above. this 'arrangement' and decision came after many other avenues were no longer available. it was also a temporary solution to an on going issue. this year, the same people are selling brome hay for $7 per square bale. the bales (get a grip, this is ugly farming at its finest at the present time in my area) weigh about 30 to 35 lbs, are loosely twine tied and when you remove the twine, you have a loose stack of hay. the hay has not been tested, and thus the buyer is at the mercy of 'trying it out' to find out what its quality is. unfortunately there are people that own horses that dont understand what the real content of nutritional hay needs to be. i have yet to find a single hay grower in the last two years who can tell you what the content of his current hay consists of. they dont want to have it tested because they dont want to know that their plan to make 'free' or close to 'free' money off of their hay is unfair to the horse hay buyer. yet they still advertise their hay as horse quality. the problem is that we are now about to see the prices double, the quality lesson and the hay farmer making up for what mother nature does by expecting the horse hay buyer to make up the difference in price. c'mon, that isnt right. especially since the horse industry is in trouble. we need someone with real knowledge of their responsibilites, their product and of the overal hay producing standards to come to this area and help horse people out, as well as help stop this growing lack of concern, and yet apparently dependant on the horse industry issue these small growers are having. there is a specific group im speaking of and i by no mean am talking about the overall or majority of the hay growers. we dont even have anyone that im aware of that fits the right description of a hay farmer for horse hay in the area (and i know why) so there are those horse people who have cause as well as ability to buy hay from other states and have it trucked in. that isnt the majority though. is there anything that can be done about this and if so, could you speak up? we need a professional caring person to represent us and guide us. i for one am worn out from the constant chase. i use alot of processed hay products now because at least it is tested and guarenteed to be the weight and quality that is stated. thanks


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## Toyes Hill Angus

Kimpossibly, this issue is seeded firmly where all of our problems lay, integrity, or lack there of... Some people have no problem buying a spoiled or damaged bin or truckload of grain with the specific intent to blend and try to hide the poor quality of the product and recieve number one top price. This is not the sort of thing done by an individual producer but instead, done by elevator operators, feed mills, and so on, but it casts the light on farmers and it is not a victimless crime. Right now in Ontario there is a growing trend for "imposter farmers" at the farmers markets. what I mean by this is a person will buy some produce from a real farmer at the farm gate for a set price, he repackages the product with his or her own label and resells for a profit and also steals the "identity" of the true producer. I think everyone would get along much better if we carried out business in a manner that we would like others to offer to ourselves... Oh yeah that's great, we can all sing by the camp fire and have a love in but if we are still willing to make false claims and charge unfair prices to fellow producers in their time of need (or missfortune) than, someday, it will only be fitting if the same happens in return... Do onto others as you would have them do onto to you... very simple words that used to carry such gravity.
well there is my rant about the decay of decentcy in humanity, I can go on for a week or two now...

Edit: I have sold hay to Horse people in the past, I do not sell anything but the best of the best. I can always find a use for some poor hay for bedding and also in the feeder when the grass is real lush and good, I am not sure why but the cows always seem to like to pick away at some coarse junk at this time of year. But dealing with these people (horsey people) can be a challange, most do not know anywhere near as much as they think...about anything hay related. I have had people dissagree about the agreed price, condition, use of acid and so on. I much prefeer to deal with other cattlemen, the price is the price, the deal is the deal, and they don't show up at 8 PM on Sunday. Although the livestock industry is 100% aware of hay quality and type and they will not pay huge prices because they have to ballance their books as well. My major priority when selling hay to a fellow farmer is to be fair, honest and have integrity.
I do not own horses, but do custom work for some horse owners and that is the way I like it


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## Blue Duck

kimpossibly said:


> lol...well maybe 'not so much' always right, but these days its very easy to become frustrated with what is happening in my own personal area. i would very much love to hear the ideas, suggestions and thoughts of REAL hay growers. apparently, kansas has very few of these in about a 100+ radius of Wichita and they are taking advantage of the small guy who has a job/family and doesnt profit on the horse industry.


Kim, there are several hay growers around that know how to put up quaility hay! The growers like you refer to in your post and the people that buy from them is a lot of the problem. They typically have the cheapest hay advertised on craigslist and customers that are unhappy with the quality. Its like going to McDonalds and then complaining that you can't get a good steak.

Price of the hay is most important to a majority of hay buyers around here. If not people like M & D would not have any customers. I can have hay that is premium quality priced at $4.50 and some very marginal hay at $4.00 and I will sell every bale of the cheaper hay before I sell one of the better hay. As far as the price going up this year... compare the price of hay in this area to other areas, you will find this area has had very cheap hay for a long time. It is not right if the hay producer is unfairly inflating the price but supply and demand IS driving the price up. It is not fair to the hay producer to expect him not to raise the price some when the demand is this high.

As far as quality goes you are NOT going to find last years quality unless someone irrigates their hay. I am round baling all my hay this year for cows because I know none of it will come close to being horse quality. If you want send me a PM and I can give you a few names of good hay producers in the area that might have some good hay. But if you are the one that has been posting all the crap on craigslist about hay yesterday then don't bother sending a PM because the hay producers I know don't want people like that as a customer!


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## scrapiron

I am a horse owner also have cows. I grow the best hay that I can grow, period, it is not cheap to produce or bale. Any excess hay that I will not feed is offered for sale to the public. Yes I get a big premium for my hay, YOU will not like it, your horses & cows will love it !!!! You will find them at the hay feeder or the water tank. There are growers like me all over this great country, you just have to look real hard to find them. Now the big problem, YOU will have to get off your dollar bills,if I/him can't make a profit we will not be in business long to supply you premium hay that you want.

scrapiron


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## mlappin

Kim, first problem is what do you consider horse quality hay? I'll have one guy that thinks what I have is too rich as his critters are easy keepers and will get fat on it, the next guy it's just right for, and the third guy will want dairy quality hay but will complain about having to pay the same price as the dairy's as he's "just feeding it to horses". Personally I don't care what you feed it to, I'm not selling it cheaper to one group than what it's worth to another group.

I haven't even advertised in years as word of mouth is more than enough to get rid of every single bale I make and then some. Get a lot of calls that go something like " I was over to my neighbors and seen the load you delivered yesterday, have any more of that?"

I've sold a lot of hay in twenty years and have never had a check bounce from a dairyman, even when the price of milk was below the cost of production several years in a row and they were losing money on every load of milk that left the farm. I've also sold a lot to folks raising sheep, goats or beef cattle and never had a problem with bad checks. I've even sold some to a lady that was feeding it to freaking camels, her checks were good. However if your looking for horse hay, bring cash or if you like the hay, pay for how much you want and when the check clears _my bank_, you can come and get it. I've been burned too many times to let horsey folks have any form of credit and that includes paying with a check. Only one has that privilege, he buys 300 round bales a year from me, is never late showing up, has never bounced a check and most importantly, _I know where he lives_. Three times in the past I've been stuck with large enough bad checks from horse folks to turn em into the county prosecutor, two of em left the state and disappeared and the third filed bankruptcy.


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## haybaler101

Way to put it mlappin. I too am sorry that the horse industry sucks right now, mostly because some goody two-shoes decided that horse meat is not good for anyone to eat or unethical, but all of the other animal industries have their downturns as well. We cannot produced quality hay and give it away to horse owners because we feel sorry for them because they are harboring a lot full of old nags that they can't get rid of. You have to buy with in your means.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> Way to put it mlappin. I too am sorry that the horse industry sucks right now, mostly because some goody two-shoes decided that horse meat is not good for anyone to eat or unethical, but all of the other animal industries have their downturns as well.


Yup, people in some places would glad to have any kind of meat and wouldn't think twice even if it was Fleabiscuit.

Actually other than the guy that buys three hundred rounds from me a year, only one other group of horse folks I'll take checks from, the Amish. I've never, ever had a bad check from the Amish and they won't dicker on the price for delivery either. This usually generates a lot of sales when a neighbor stops by and sees what I dropped off, then the neighbor will usually get hold of me when they need hay. Can be a pain on the communication side though, calling and leaving a message on the community answering machine or leaving messages with a neighbor that has a phone can get time consuming.


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## tnwalkingred

Ok so I figured I would jump into this discussion since I myself am a "horsey person" (been breeding and training horses for 11years now) as well as a hay producer who sells "horse quality hay" to the public. I'm gonna try and break down the issues one by one and give my opinion which is like a a**hole, everyone has one and most of them STINK!!!! LOL

1. The perception by many that all "horsey people" are crazy::::: There are many crazy people in the horse business and this is a fact. However there are also crazy people in every other part of agriculture inlcuding beef cattle people, goat people (who I personally think are the worst), alpaca people, sheep people, dairy people (a close second to goat people), hog people, corn people, soybean people, wheat people, small town gardeners, and etc. The world we live in is full of people who are off there rocker and this is just a fact of life. I personally have ran across many people who I elected not to do business with and their attitude about things was the reason I made that decision not what kind of livestock they raised.

2. The horse market is in the tank:::: Good horses still sell good and bad horses USED to sell bad but now they dont sell AT ALL. If you owned a cull cow who was no use to you in reagards to producing a calf, providing milk, or so forth what would you do? You would send her to the market for slaughter, get a small check for her, and take her off the feed bill. The problem with the horse business is this. THERE IS NO LONGER A SLAUGHTER MARKET FOR HORSES. We can think Oprah Winfrey and all the other crazy liberals for this. So what you have is a influx of horses that serve no purpose having to be cared for by people who have no options as to what to do with them. This is why you see so many that are malnourished and you hear of all the stories of people pawning horses off on other people. I will share two quick stories I personally know of here in middle TN. A friend of mine was trail riding one day and when they came back they had three horses tied to their trailer with a note saying "FREE to a good home". He never found out who left them and eventually just took them to the horse auction where they brought so little he actually OWED to stockyard money when it was all said and done. There was also a guy here in the small town I live in that went by a fenced pasture he owned one day that was down the road from where he lived and low and behold there were 9 inside. The gate was pulled back to and latched although it was latched differently than he normally did it. Someone had backed a trailer up to the gate, opened it, turned the horses out, shut that gate, and took off. He called the county sheriff and asked what to do. They told him he would have to find something to do with them. He said ok I'm just gonna leave my gate open and let them out. They told him he could not do that as he would be liable if someone hit one in a car. He said ok I will just get my rifle and shoot all of them. They told him if he did that he would be arrested for animal cruelty. Talk about a lose lose situation. LOL.

3. Hay not being horse quality::::: When I sell hay to people I will sometimes label it as "horse quality". Horse quality to me is hay that has little to no weed in it, had not been wet, and was not too stemy. This is what makes horse quality hay in my opinion and the variables I use as to whether I feed it to my horses or not. When someone calls me about hay be it a small square or round bale I will tell them whether it is "horse quality" based on those three things. When I advertise hay it will be advertised as what kind of grass it is such as mixed grass, orchard, orchard mix, or so forth. If it is mixed grass I will advertise what types of grasses are in it such as hop clover, red clover, white clover, sericia, fescue, orchard, timothy or so forth. Being honest about what type of hay it is, is the only way to do business and will keep the customers coming back because they respect that. A high quality hay is high quality regardless of what type of grass or legume is in it. Even the dreaded ole johnson grass can make high quality hay if it is cut and put up the right way.

4. Hay producers are producing lesser quality hay and asking higher prices::::: For the woman who made that statement I would suggest that she be more selective in who she does business with, become more educated about the hay and hay business, and ALWAYS look at a product before buying it. People buying blindy and then getting upset about the quality they receive is one of the biggest problems I see in the hay business. I for one would never buy a tractor or truck without looking at in persone first and I think that same principle should apply to hay. Also learn from your mistakes. If you have a bad expierence from a hay producer then dont do business with that guy anymore but please dont assume all hay producers are that way. I learned a long time ago that you cant make everyone happy. Some people are gonna get upset with you in the hay business and this cannot be avoided. The key to being sucessful is having LOTS more happy customers than unhappy.

Ok so I'm off my soapbox now. Hope you guys and gals have a great weekend. Looks like the rain is gonna move out today and then it's gonna get HOT. So I plan on mowing some "horse quality" hay in the morning so it will bale on Sunday. Good luck to everyone!

Kyle


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## swmnhay

Horsey people= Don't realy know what good hay is.Checks bounce.Want 1 bale a time.Are out of hay and need it now.Need you to hold check until payday.Want good hay for cheap.

Horseman or horsewomen=Know what good hay is and willing to pay for extra quality and the $ are good!


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## mlappin

tnwalkingred said:


> 2. The horse market is in the tank:::: Good horses still sell good and bad horses USED to sell bad but now they dont sell AT ALL. If you owned a cull cow who was no use to you in reagards to producing a calf, providing milk, or so forth what would you do?


.222 shells are still pretty cheap compared to the cost of feeding them. That applies equally to bovines or equines. For what it's worth, backhoe rental over a weekend is pretty cheap compared to a year or even 6 months worth of feed.



tnwalkingred said:


> 3. Hay not being horse quality::::: When I sell hay to people I will sometimes label it as "horse quality". Horse quality to me is hay that has little to no weed in it, had not been wet, and was not too stemy.


I've had guys that as long as it's not moldy, good enough. Weeds, stemmy etc. doesn't matter. Drives me nuts sometimes dealing with the Amish over the phone when they want "horse quality" trying to figure out exactly what that means. I even had one that bought some rounds that were a touch dusty, he fed em outside and hosed em down first and he was happy as a clam.



tnwalkingred said:


> 4. Hay producers are producing lesser quality hay and asking higher prices:::::


Unfortunately it's called inflation. Land prices are inflated in our area, have way too many seed corn, green bean and cucumber producers willing to pay obscene prices for land. Also have several wanna be up and coming big time producers who also pay prices that barely pencil out with even with 8 dollar corn and 14 dollar beans. Eventually the wanna be's will disappear once they manage to spend all of mommy and daddy's or grandpa's money. Course always seem to have another wanker coming out of the wood work that wants to be the next 5 or 10 thousand acre guy.

Net wrap is over $200 bucks a roll, diesel fuel while not high as it once was, is a major expense, lets not even get into fertilizer prices that are strictly row crop driven. Bought three tires and two rims this spring, a radial rear, two fronts and the new front rims, dropped almost 2K on em. Wasn't that long ago the same rear tire was around 700 bucks instead of 1200+.

Unless the price of hay goes up to cover the inflated cost of making said hay, it's gonna go to row crops, lot less work as well with row crops.


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> Horsey people= Don't realy know what good hay is.Checks bounce.Want 1 bale a time.Are out of hay and need it now.Need you to hold check until payday.Want good hay for cheap.
> 
> Horseman or horsewomen=Know what good hay is and willing to pay for extra quality and the $ are good!


Hay = hay....someone will buy it and something will eat it. I never have any trouble getting rid of the stuff I won't feed at a reasonable price.

Horse Hay = Pet Food....Most of them have such wierd preconcieved notions as to what constitutes good hay that it's a waste of time to try and educate them. I had a prospective boarder call the other day and ask if we offered "organic feed/hay" as a choice. That conversation didn't go very far.


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## texas hay

Horse quality hay is hay that has a high TDN.Horse quality hay is clean and consisitent and can always be judged by what the horses body condition looks like(average horse).Some hay may look good but is crap when you feed it,meaning more grain is required for a horse to maintain condition.High quality roughage can almost maintain a horse on its own even if the horse is on a routine training schedule,and can be maintained with little concentrated grains and few supplements.Now that is my def. of good quality hay.If hay producers will concentrate on trying to achieve that criteria as a producer failure with customers will be non existent.


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## mlappin

Texas hay, what you're describing sounds like what I give my Dad to feed his EX girlfriends hayburners (figure that one out). They don't get a bit of grain except for maybe extended cold spells in the winter. Two might even be a bit on the fat side. What I give him is the stuff I didn't think was up to snuff for my guy that buys 300 round bales a year for his horses.


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## texas hay

Mostly my comparison on hay is judged on training horses in the barn where you can manage the amount of roughage fed in ponds on a daily basis.Where in the case round bales are fed its really hard to determine the amount of pounds per day that a horse is taking in and determining the benefits in a dollar amount of grain versus hay formula.I have feed really poor quality hay in large volume many years ago and the horses looked ok on it,also feeding round bales.The square hay is mostly what my input is pertaining to.Thanks


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## mlappin

texas hay said:


> Mostly my comparison on hay is judged on training horses in the barn where you can manage the amount of roughage fed in ponds on a daily basis.Where in the case round bales are fed its really hard to determine the amount of pounds per day that a horse is taking in and determining the benefits in a dollar amount of grain versus hay formula.I have feed really poor quality hay in large volume many years ago and the horses looked ok on it,also feeding round bales.The square hay is mostly what my input is pertaining to.Thanks


I think my guy uses them mostly as boredom hay. He doesn't have enough pastures to keep em rotated to a fresh one for all their feed intake. He also brings em all in at night and feeds some small squares as well.


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## Interested

yeah horse people are weird like a lady gave my friend a horse then took it back because she said he must feed it 2000 dollars of hay a month Im like uh no thats stupid


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## texas hay

I totally agree that there are horsemen and your weekend horse person!!!I have been a professional horsemen for many years and a loyal customer to my hay suppliers that produce high quality.I know how hard it is to produce consistent high quality hay.My advice to those that want those customers that are educated about hay and have a checkbook to pay for it,is to try and tap into that specific market any way you can.Seek out those horsemen and if you have the goods they will come...The real professional horse trainers run in small circles and you would be surprised what happens when you have a couple of really satisfied professional backing your product...Thanks


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## swmnhay

Horsey guy that has to many nags around and is a little behind on his hay bill gets a new job after being out of work because of medical reasons.Well I'm thinkin good for him.Better paying job for him with good benifits.And he says he can have all the overtime he wants.Now I'm smiling to myself he is gonna get caught up on his hay bill.Then he says he doesn't want overtime.What the heck,he is behind on his bills why not work some overtime and get caught up a little faster.


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> Then he says he doesn't want overtime.What the heck,he is behind on his bills why not work some overtime and get caught up a little faster.


I suspect the generous benefits your State seems to lavish on the non-workers might be clouding his judgement.


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## swmnhay

Mike120 said:


> I suspect the generous benefits your State seems to lavish on the non-workers might be clouding his judgement.


Yea Mn is the WELFARE state,lol.They need to get some of these people off welfare and disability.We were just talking of a woman on disability.She used to work for the welfare system now she is on mental disability and sits in casino all weekend.


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## Teslan

This thread is making me laugh. Though this has nothing to do with horse or hay buyers, but your average joe that knows nothing about farming. While in college my cousin had to come up with a business plan. He chose the hay selling business. He wrote the whole paper. He turned in the rough draft and the professor wrote on it that he needed to explain why it wouldn't be better to have the hay frozen in a freezer building. *sigh*. So to get a decent grade he had to explain why you don't need to freeze hay. I have another hay customer who must have gotten rich some how and decided to get in the horse boarding business. She couldn't understand the first year she bought from me why I couldn't just make more hay at anytime. This year she called to complain that some of the yellow stringed smaller bales of hay she got from me didn't flake off good in the middle and was causing a lot of waste. I simply said. We use red string and our balers don't make smaller bales. Did you buy some hay elsewhere? *Silence*. Then she said, I don't know my barn manager might have. *sigh*.


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> Yea Mn is the WELFARE state,lol.


My son's in-laws just left yesterday heading back up there. That fact seems to be a hot button with them. I suggested that they take a few more illegals up with them to open some more Mexican restaurants. They're learning some Spanish during the winters in South Texas....First time I've ever heard it with a Norwegian accent.


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## Chessiedog

Can be lots of problems , but nothing like pulling in and your horsey person comes running up and says " man thats really nice looking hay " then I kinda feel like the commercial use to see as a kid " I don't care about making money , I just love to sell carpet "


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## swmnhay

Just heard of another hay guy taking 2 5th wheel loads of sm sqrs 3 hrs to horse guy and when he gets there the guy says he has no money.He brought it back.I hear he is giving up growing hay,saying the heck with it to much BS like this.


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## Hayguy

Hope he hadn't unloaded before he got the bad news!


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## swmnhay

Horse lady calls and says they are out of hay.Well I'm leaving for a couple days so I guess she is SOL.I've told them many times I would like 3 days notice.


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## Mike120

Most of them (my daughter included) think the hay fairy just brings hay and puts it in peoples barns. This year has really been bad. They run out and start calling their friends in a panic and someone gives them my daughters number "cause they have lots of hay". I get stuck being the grumpy old fart that won't sell them any.


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## mlappin

Not just horse folk, got a call the other day while we were picking corn from a guy raising dairy heifers, liked what I hauled them last time but could I sell it for less and bring a load NOW. Told em nope, picking corn and the elevator never asks if I can sell my loads for less than what we agreed on.


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## Vol

Exactly Marty....not just horse folks... I walk into one of the local tractor dealers and they act like their doing you a favor by letting you walk in...I had to interrupt their tale spinning because not one person asked if I needed anything....acted miffed...its the whole freakin country!!! No such thing as Southern Hospitality anymore here. Country is full of lazy smart alecks. Dont give a crap about doing the right thing just focused on payday and 5:00 quitting time. Thats one reason I have no qualms about asking high dollar for square bales and not batting an eye. You would think that with as many people out of work as there is that some of these outfits would hire people that DO want to work. I am beginning to believe that the people who are out of work don't really give a crap about finding work. This country has just become obsessed with having a non-caring attitude.

Regards, Mike


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## Toyes Hill Angus

I agree with you Mike cause we have it here too. The problem seems to stem from this "entitled" attitude that seems to be contagious. What really is the driving force behind this "occupy (a city)" movement? These people living in tents and going over to Starbucks to update their Face Book status and Twitter this and that...GET A JOB. No body came out of the wood works and offered to pay any debt that I incurred in the process of making a living, I didn't make any body major in women's studies with a minor in spanish at Harvard or some other big dollar school.
No body on either side of our borders seems to understand that the reason some people have big houses, new cars and fat wallets is that they made wise decisions at key times in their lives. Sure, luck also plays a roll in alot of cases but when does it not?
People seem to forget that one half of "smart ass" is SMART, you have to understand that when school is out, you now have to get a job and go to work....and pay your own damn bills.
Dr.Phil might blame these university kids' parents for letting them get away with spending good money after bad at the univeristy of gumdrops.
See what happens, some body talks about the "lazy smart aleks" and I go off on a rant. Sorry about that.


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## rjmoses

Hitting some nerves here, guys. It's not just horsey people.

The other day, I went into the local bar and grill for lunch, sat there 10 minutes (after I started timing), nobody, not even the owner, looked at me, said "howdy-do", nothing. I know I had a camouflage baseball cap on, but I didn't think it would work THAT good! This is a place I've been going to three-four times a week and I always leave a good tip. I know they were a little busy, but it wasn't that bad.

Talked to a couple of guys for a while, then said I was going down the road to get something to eat and walked out!

Let the word out to some of the bigger mouthed people in the area that I was pretty PO'd, that I at least expected to be acknowledge that I was there.

Word got back to the owner. Went in a couple of days later--got taken care of IMMEDIATELY!

Service has gotten to be a four letter word in this country nowadays. Everybody expects a person just to take whatever S**t they hand out. And it starts at the top! From the President on down.

Well, I don't have to take it because I can, and will, take my business to people that want it. Likewise for my customers. After over 30 years in business for myself, I have learned that bad business is worse than no business at all. I treat my customers with integrity and respect. I expect to be treated with integrity and respect as a customer.

I'm going to get off my soap box now.

Ralph


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## scrapiron

It's sunday 5:30 pm phone rings, caller asks ya got any hay ? Didn't even tell me who it was, want 2 rolls delivered, 3 miles away. I asked who it was going to ? Voice changed real quick,regonized it as the l horsey gal that still owes me for 2 rolls from 2010, says she don't have the money to pay me. Has 37 horses on 15 acres. Told her "She will not be getting any of my hay, today, tomorrow or any time soon". Told her to have a good evening & hung up phone.

scrapiron


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## boilerhay

I responded to a craigslist ad a few weeks ago. "Desperate for hay need ASAP!"

I called, left my number. This gal calls me while I'm on the tractor, asks if she can come on Sunday to look at my hay. Sure, no problem. Never showed. Two weeks later I get a text from her asking again if she can come the next Sunday afternoon. You bet sweetie.
Another no show. A week later she reposts her desperate for hay ad on CL. The price I shot her wasn't cheap but it wasn't outrageous either. If she calls me again it will be.

Too early to sell good hay cheap in my opinion.


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## NCSteveH

boilerhay said:


> Too early to sell good hay cheap in my opinion.


I agree, I have some in the barn right now that I wont sell till February, it is enough to hold my regular customers, who will run out, till I can get a first cut in.

The supply in my area is tight right now since a lot of hay went south. I will make good money on what I have left but I will sell it to a regular reasonably priced before I sell to a new customer at what the market will bear.


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## FCF

> [I will sell it to a regular reasonably priced before I sell to a new customer at what the market will bear./QUOTE]
> 
> That is the best way to keep good regular customers, fair to yourself and fair to them. Hopefully your regulars realize how the cost of inputs have gone up.


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## swmnhay

NCSteveH said:


> I will make good money on what I have left but I will sell it to a regular reasonably priced before I sell to a new customer at what the market will bear.


That has been my way of doing bussiness also.But when prices are low I would like a little more to average things out.It works out well but always seems to end when they find some cheap hay when prices are low and leave you hanging.Some people have short memories!So if they call back now they will pay dearly if they want it.I don't forget that.


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## swmnhay

"I can only get 2 bales until I get my next unemployment check"


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## NCSteveH

swmnhay said:


> "I can only get 2 bales until I get my next unemployment check"


been there done that, cash only.


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## swmnhay

"I got a new job and can have all the overtime I want.But I don't want any overtime"

From horsey person that is constantly behind on hay bill.


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## T & R Hay Farms

Do not worry about it. As the one guy said "their are always other sales". We have a hobby haying operation and also have some horses of our own. Our horses are perfectly healthy horses and eat what we feed them. If it is not what they want too eat, they will not eat it. But it does not need to be perfectly green hay.


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## RockmartGA

Okay, I sell a good quality hay. However, I'm not the type who will jack up the price and call it "Horse Hay". To me, that's an arbitrary description that most folks can't define.

I remember back in October some folks who called me looking for "horse hay". They ask a lot of questions and finally decide that I didn't have what they were looking for.

Here it is the end of January. Same folks call looking for hay. Yes, I'm almost sold out, but have a few bales left.

We'll be there!

I guess I do have "horse quality" hay after all. LOL


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## Vol

RockmartGA said:


> Okay, I sell a good quality hay. However, I'm not the type who will jack up the price and call it "Horse Hay". To me, that's an arbitrary description that most folks can't define.


For most equine people, horse hay can be defined as hay that has a high level of protein for the grass/legume variety it is and that it contains no fescue and no mold with "no mold" being the most important of all the factors.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

swmnhay said:


> "I got a new job and can have all the overtime I want.But I don't want any overtime"
> 
> From horsey person that is constantly behind on hay bill.


Now"They are cutting are hrs temporarily"

Well Daa.Why didn't you make a little more when they offered it to you?

Kinda like "Make hay when the sun shines"

"When oppertunity knocks take it"


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## Chessiedog

> Hi ---- !
> 
> Your hay was probably the best I ever bought and the horses are eating every last morsel! The teff I tried is great and the mix is perfect. Please let me know when you start cutting again this year, I will definately be interested in your hay again. I also have a couple of friends in the area that love it too and are wanting some as well. Thanks again!


Sorry after all of the negative post about horsey folks I can't help but post an email I got this morning from a new costumer last fall .


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## hay wilson in TX

*Okay, I sell a good quality hay. However, I'm not the type who will jack up the price and call it "Horse Hay". To me, that's an arbitrary description that most folks can't define.*
When asked if the hay is Horse Quality, my answer is usually. No. Then I tell them the hay is too good for horses and reserved for dairy animals.

Sad but true.


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## swmnhay

Jeeze,are all horsey people bad?Got a returned check yesterday for $60.Account closed.They have been buying hay on and off for a few yrs.1 small rd bale at a time.Never had a bad check from them before.

New policy.Cash for horse hay.


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## mlappin

swmnhay said:


> New policy.Cash for horse hay.


Yup, been doing that for awhile, especially with folks that just want one or two at a time. Before they come out I tell em cash only, then they'll usually respond they don't have any but their check is good, and I tell em to write the check to cash and goto their bank and cash it or hit an atm on the way out.

Had a guy stopping in once a week and getting one bale a week since right after new years, always paid cash, said to hold enough for him as they have too many horses and not enough pasture so he'll need one a week year round, sat some off to the side for him, ain't seen him in a month.


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## Teslan

I've found when I agree to hold any hay for anyone that is when they disappear for awhile. Now I tell them if they want me to hold it they need to pay and if they don't get the hay by a certain time I will sell it and give their money back minus the amount if I have to sell lower then what they pay.


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## dubltrubl

Teslan said:


> I've found when I agree to hold any hay for anyone that is when they disappear for awhile. Now I tell them if they want me to hold it they need to pay and if they don't get the hay by a certain time I will sell it and give their money back minus the amount if I have to sell lower then what they pay.


Pretty much the same here. Held on to a bunch this last year, never again. Took 'em 3 months or better to show up, then they didn't take it all. Repeat customers, I'll hold for 1 month max, then it's out the door. I really don't mind horsey folks. They make good customers mostly. My only negative about 'em is most of 'em have more animals than they can afford to feed, but can't seem to part with 'em. Just don't make much sense to my feeble mind.


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## Mike120

dubltrubl said:


> My only negative about 'em is most of 'em have more animals than they can afford to feed, but can't seem to part with 'em. Just don't make much sense to my feeble mind.


You're thinking of them as livestock, they think of them as pets. We just got a new border that's one of the worst I've ever seen...I'm happy I don't have to deal with her.


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## mlappin

Mike120 said:


> You're thinking of them as livestock, they think of them as pets. We just got a new border that's one of the worst I've ever seen...I'm happy I don't have to deal with her.


Me thinks the definition of pet needs redefined then...Pet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## swmnhay

dubltrubl said:


> I really don't mind horsey folks. They make good customers mostly. My only negative about 'em is most of 'em have more animals than they can afford to feed, but can't seem to part with 'em. Just don't make much sense to my feeble mind.


Yea its crazy some around here have 15 or more and can't afford to feed them.Usually 1 or 2 a yr get turned in for neglect.Some got the bright idea that they would breed them and sell some and make money,LOL.


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## Mike120

mlappin said:


> Me thinks the definition of pet needs redefined then...Pet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Unfortunately, the tree huggers and other wackos have made the push to make horses "companion animals". That's how they managed to shut down the slaughter facilities. Companion Animals | Animal Welfare Institute


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## dubltrubl

swmnhay said:


> Yea its crazy some around here have 15 or more and can't afford to feed them.Usually 1 or 2 a yr get turned in for neglect.Some got the bright idea that they would breed them and sell some and make money,LOL.


Man! Don't get me started on that one! Around these parts, it's cheaper to go to OK or TX, buy a well bred, trained, sometimes even a horse with show points on it, than raise one from a baby! Don't ask me how I know!


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## dubltrubl

Mike120 said:


> You're thinking of them as livestock, they think of them as pets. We just got a new border that's one of the worst I've ever seen...I'm happy I don't have to deal with her.


True, and I guess I should know better, but I just can't wrap my mind around that. Add to that the fact that lot's of 'em really have absolutely no need or use for a horse. We have one, and only because the business manager (wife) decided the grandkids needed one! Guess who gets to take care of the little stinker! The same sucker that gets to pay the feed bill! I do love 'em, but have no earthly use for the things. If it can't earn it's keep, or I can't eat it, I really don't need it! Sorry, for the rant.
Steve


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## TheFastMan

I don't know if I've posted this story before, but I work at TSC and we get a lot of horse people through there. There is one gal in particular who runs a "horse rescue". In other words, she has more horses than she probably can afford and won't get rid of any because she is too attached to them. She complains often about them when she comes in.

I don't like to hold hay either unless it is for people I know, but even then it is kind of annoying. Some folks I hold for are pretty hard pressed for cash and have several goats. I saved 9 800lb 4x5 rolls for them and they pick them up as they need them. They don't always pay when they pickup, but they always pay soon after. The annoying part is I don't really have the place to store it, so i stack them on railroad ties in the side yard. I bought tarps to cover them because I just hated to see decent hay get ruined, but they got shredded by the wind. Maybe I'm too nice of a guy!


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## Mike120

Which one of you guys loaded hay for this horse owner??

View attachment 1973


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## RockmartGA

Mike120 said:


> Which one of you guys loaded hay for this horse owner??
> 
> View attachment 1973


LOL. Maybe this guy? There's a horse in that car! - YouTube


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## Vol

Mike120 said:


> Which one of you guys loaded hay for this horse owner??
> 
> View attachment 1973


Walmart or Home Depot?

Regards, Mike


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## dubltrubl

Weren't me! I refuse to throw idiot bricks that high anymore!


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## Teslan

This morning I get a call from a customer that has been buying about 2000 bales a year for the last 4-5 years. She asked if we could start growing Timothy hay for her this year. *sigh*. I had thought she had learned by now that I can't just grow certain hay to meet her whims with 2 weeks notice. Plus Timothy hay doesn't grow where I am, but in the mountains. So I guess I lost a customer. But actually this came at a perfect time as I was going to let her go anyways for being to dramatic about delivery times and such.


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## swmnhay

_Horsey gal calls that bought some hay last winter for awhile.She wanted some good hay.I brought her some 2nd cut Orchard/Blue grass._

_Any way I wondered why she had not called for 3 months.She said she lost my number.LOL.Heck they know where I live they picked some up!_

_Well she had some other hay there that the horses won't even eat.I presume she got it cheaper.But now she is using it for hog bedding._

_So good hay is going to cost a little more,but junk hay costs you more yet!







_


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## Edster

hay wilson in TX said:


> *Okay, I sell a good quality hay. However, I'm not the type who will jack up the price and call it "Horse Hay". To me, that's an arbitrary description that most folks can't define.*
> When asked if the hay is Horse Quality, my answer is usually. No. Then I tell them the hay is too good for horses and reserved for dairy animals.
> 
> Sad but true.


I'm with Wilson on this one. I don't produce, advertise, or sell horse hay. I do produce and sell quality hay. I have no need for advertising word of mouth does me just fine. I have a friend that is a dairy farmer and he will take any hay that I can't sell. I do have a customer that has horses. He will show up when called, (I DO NOT DELIVER), pays cash, and doesn't complain---well he does when I get him all 800 bales he needs in one weekend.









As far as people thinking that horses deserve better quality hay than any other livestock I say they are wrong!!!!! If a dairy farmer feeds lower quality hay to his animals his production level goes down, so does his milk check. So to make up for the poor quality feed he has to supplement his animals with more grain. Now his production is up but his bottom line is still going down. So why should I sell high quality feed to picky customers, that wouldn't know a good stand of hay if they were having a picnic in it, when they are just feeding pets.


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## ARD Farm

GOOD HAY said:


> All of our small squares go to horses except for two customers, one with beef and one with sheep. We have about 20 customers for 18000 bales and there is very little turn over form year to year. The horse people are very loyal. We have been baling and selling hay for about 20 years in Eastern Ontario. In our area there are not very many people making small squares any more. We do have a bit of a captive market but we still work hard at making the best quality that the weather will allow and provide the best service that we can with what we have to work with. Always have to keep in mind that I am dealing with people who do not understand how hay is made and what it takes to get that nice bale. The best customers are those who have tried to make there own hay, most fail dismally or if not would rather pay the price than go to all the work for a thousand bales when they can get it from me and be done in a few hours.


Interesting thread. I cut & bail for horse people, cattle people and lama people and run wheat straw in squares and rounds for feedlot operations and my best customers are those who tired and failed because one, they tried to use clapped out equipment and operate on a budget or two, the thought they could fool Mother Nature. You loose on both counts. They still own the hay ground but they let me manage it. I'm extremely lucky in that I have a job where, when it's time to make hay, I can take off and run hay without any repercussions...... probably because the owner of the company I work for is one of my customers who failed at making his own hay.....

Contract forage is all about being a good mechanic, having good equipment, being able to accurately judge weather conditions and being a good businessman.....
................and exhibiting a large amount of patience with ill-informed horse people.....


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## mlappin

I'm going to call the lady that thinks I'm going to give her ten round bales then she'll pay me when she gets her horses sold, just for the entertainment of it.


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## swmnhay

mlappin said:


> I'm going to call the lady that thinks I'm going to give her ten round bales then she'll pay me when she gets her horses sold, just for the entertainment of it.


I was gonna call a horse lady warning her that price of hay is double of last yr.They couldn't afford last yrs prices.


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## endrow

I never owned a horse and only ridden one a couple of times. BUT I love horses and respect there owners. I would hate to see where the hay and straw market was today with out the horse market . Where i live we have the amish to the south of us and horse race tracks to the north of us we do sell alot of hay for cattle but i am ALWAYS interested when someone talks about horse quality hay or straw. Grandpa used to say dont bite the hand that feed you


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## mlappin

There is no horse hay market here to speak of, those that still do buy for horses while a few are good folk, most are even more insufferable now than before. They seem to think the same as Obama and I should subsidize their _hobby_ at the expense of my making a living.


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## Vol

In alot of regards, the horse industry can be alot like the Ag industry....thin profit margins with high investments which leads one to try to save every dollar that one can in order to continue doing the thing that they love. The Ag industry does even better when the horse industry is doing well. It would be very foolish to think that the Ag industry would be better off without horse people. I hope the horse market turns around very soon. There is not a more beautiful creature on this earth than a well bred horse grazing on a nice stand of grass.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Not much for horse hay market here either.About 5% of my sales.But 100% of my bad accounts.

I've had bad/slow accounts with cattle feeders also but have eventualy gotten pd.


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## Vol

swmnhay said:


> Not much for horse hay market here either.About 5% of my sales.But 100% of my bad accounts.


Wow, only 5% of your sales.....that would be a easy problem for me to remedy......I would make that 5% pay cash only and if they could not I would send them elsewhere....afterall..its only 5%.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin

Vol said:


> In alot of regards, the horse industry can be alot like the Ag industry....thin profit margins with high investments which leads one to try to save every dollar that one can in order to continue doing the thing that they love. The Ag industry does even better when the horse industry is doing well. It would be very foolish to think that the Ag industry would be better off without horse people. I hope the horse market turns around very soon. There is not a more beautiful creature on this earth than a well bred horse grazing on a nice stand of grass.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I can see if you're actually using them for something, lady I custom bale for actually has a few certified therapeutic horses. Used for rehab for people who have had strokes, muscle issues, or balance problems. The Amish around here still _need_ them of course, but other than having to play phone tag on a community answering machine they are desirable to deal with. They know their hay, they know the real value of it and the checks they write never ever bounce. The rest of the horse hay market people have em for lawn ornaments mainly, they complain that the hay costs to much, isn't as good as they got from somewhere else, then b*tch if you run out of the over priced hay that wasn't as good as they normally get.


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## Vol

mlappin said:


> I can see if you're actually using them for something, lady I custom bale for actually has a few certified therapeutic horses. Used for rehab for people who have had strokes, muscle issues, or balance problems. The Amish around here still _need_ them of course, but other than having to play phone tag on a community answering machine they are desirable to deal with. They know their hay, they know the real value of it and the checks they write never ever bounce. The rest of the horse hay market people have em for lawn ornaments mainly, they complain that the hay costs to much, isn't as good as they got from somewhere else, then b*tch if you run out of the over priced hay that wasn't as good as they normally get.


I guess we have alot different horse folks here in the Southeast and Southwest...we do have some "lawn ornaments", but we also have lots of high quality horses, horse breeders, performance horses, show people, etc. in other words as Haywilson says, "things are different HERE than they are THERE." I believe people ride their horses alot more HERE than they do THERE partly due to more seasonal weather.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin

Yup, know a guy that had 6 of them, nothing but yard ornaments as he owned no tack or saddle for any of them. I know of plenty of others that might get rode once every few months.

Personally I don't have much use for them. Had a few as a kid, then discovered dirt bikes and girls. WE have tractors now to do the farming, cars to get around and ATV's for recreation. The huge plus to tractors, cars, and ATV's? If you ain't using, it ain't eating expensive hay while standing around and doing nothing.


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## RockmartGA

You have to wonder what horse people think when they read this blog.....

Probably think we're talking about everybody else but them. lol


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## swmnhay

*Guy calls about hay today.*
*Asks what do you have?*
*I say I got some dairy hay.*
*He asks if horses will eat it.







*


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## Edster

I hope you told him "Nope horses wouldn't touch this stuff"


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## swmnhay

*I was thinking of saying it's to good for them.Which it is!*


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## Tim/South

Should have told them it was too rich for horses, they were not made to handle the milk increase.
The mares utters would swell up like a Holstein and the gelding would pee all the time.
Unless he intended to milk the mares twice a day he needed to look for a lesser quality hay or let yours get rained on at least once after he bought it.


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## ETXhayman

This year we bought a small square baler and have been putting up a few squares in the barn for some of the horse people in our area. Most of them have been buying our round bales for years but the chance to nearly double our money yet still bale the same quality hay was too good to pass up. Down here in Texas we sell good round bales for no less than $65 a bale and we sell squares out of the barn for 8 or 9 bucks. We get about 15 squares out of every round bale.


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## DC Cattle

We sell 3-4000 small square bales a year to horse people here in Illinois. Most of them don't know much about hay or horses, just what they have heard. I work hard to educate them on feeding alfalfa and grass hay to horses.

Its all about how much you want to feed your horse. Grass if you want hay in front of them all day and straight alfalfa if you want to feed a couple leaves in the morning and again at night.

Some just don't get it and we let them go somewhere else.

I find most women want to keep hay in front of their horse all day and prefer grass plus they tend to be more gullable to all the hay gossip they hear out and about.

We sell anywhere from 80/20 alfalfa/grass mix up to straight alfalfa. Just depends on time of cut and condition of hay fields.

We have not sold a bale of hay cheaper than $5.50 out of the barn. We charge an extra $1.00 if e deliver within a 100 miles and $1.50 over a 100 miles.


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## swmnhay

_A guy calls other day looking for hay for his horses.We had a bad connection._

_I told him $275 a ton FOB.He said he would take it for $75







_

_I said NO it is $275.He said he could buy alfalfa pellets for that.I said OK fine with me._

_Havn't checked alfalfa pellet price lately but prly 600-800 per ton??_

_I'm thinking alf pellets wouldn't be what a horse should have anyway??_


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## Teslan

Any of you guys sold to Alpaca owners? Think picky horsey people times 10. They only can buy 2nd or 3rd cutting grass hay. Well they think they can only buy those cuttings. Then they always ask for a feed value test. Of which I don't provide on grass hay. They demand barn stored hay (which I provide) but then store it outside under a tarp. But like any overpriced show animal that is a fad they are losing their values. The only thing good is that they generally have the money to pay for the hay so far.


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## swmnhay

Uhhhh Ohhh,I got a bad feeling.

Horsey customer of 6 yrs doesn't answer my calls.They were always slow at paying but I always have gotten pd.Last yr he had hip replacment surgery and they got farther behind on hay bill.Last load I brought thier daughtr was supposed to bring me $500 the next day.Well that was 3 months ago.I tried calling 3 weeks ago and didn't get any reply from my "missed calls"Left them polite message last week and they havn't replyed.









Bankruptcy won't surprise me.Getting out of some Dr bills ins didn't cover.And screw the hay guy also that helped them out when he was laid up.Hopefully my gut is wrong.


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## mlappin

Anymore, no credit and no checks unless a amishman is writing the check.

Sold a little rained on hay the other day, they paid cash, guy before that paid with his credit card.


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## Case-IH Hay Farmer

Thanks for the laughs from this thread. We started doing hay this year for our 4 lawn ornaments (two were bought for pleasure riding and the other 2 were rescues). Any hay we don't need for our animals, we sell and most of it sells quick. We feed some of each field we do to our horses to see what they think of it and if they won't touch it, we sell that hay as "good for beef cows/goats" We only label our hay as what it's in it, not by what animal it's for, if they ask if the hay is good for horses we tell them if ours like it or if they don't, so far our horses have liked every hay bale we tested with them.

We had a guy that was supposed to buy a bunch of hay from us, he no-showed and with our baler problem that we had the work crew didn't get the last couple hundred bales off the field before they left. We decided to go ahead and post a CL add and sell it for peanuts just to get rid of it since it was sitting in the field for a week. We had people call and show up thinking that they were getting a steal for the price we were asking for. They thought this was the $12 a bale "Feed Store Quality horse hay" that they were getting for practically nothing. They see the bleached outside edge and walk away saying the hay is bad (it's nice and green inside). If it don't sell, I can always use it for erosion control or for bedding for the pigs.

It's just funny listening to people talk about how high the prices for hay is ($3-$4 a bale) and I think to myself, most small square bales cost a farmer almost $1 a bale to make just for the fuel, twine, labor and parts. That's not including the equipment cost, maintenance or insurance. If they don't want to pay the price for the hay, then can go buy the equipment and do it themselves and then see which route is cheaper. That or they can continue paying the feed store $7-$9 for the hay that he is paying us $4-$5 a bale for. If they have to pay us $4 a bale it's too expensive and bad hay, but if they pay the feed store $7 - $9 for the same bale, it's priced right and is perfect for horses, go figure.

Just my 2 cents.


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## country boy

amen


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## dubltrubl

I actually had one complain last week that our squares were too big, and too heavy! Go figure. We make a true 36" bale as opposed to what most people in the area call a 36". (Theirs are more like 32-34") We also target a 60# bale, where most around here are 45-50#. Geeez, and all this time I thought I was being honest and trying to give someone what they paid for,,,hmmmm, guess I need to re-figure this marketing thing!
Steve


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## ARD Farm

Teslan said:


> Any of you guys sold to Alpaca owners? Think picky horsey people times 10. They only can buy 2nd or 3rd cutting grass hay. Well they think they can only buy those cuttings. Then they always ask for a feed value test. Of which I don't provide on grass hay. They demand barn stored hay (which I provide) but then store it outside under a tarp. But like any overpriced show animal that is a fad they are losing their values. The only thing good is that they generally have the money to pay for the hay so far.


I do, but with a twist. The alpaca people own their own field, I just make it in small squares and they pick it up and load their barn.

I charge them for fertilizer, everytime the tractor hits the field and for every bale run. What could be better. This guy (and his wife) learned making hay is more than making hay. He tried the old used, clapped out equipment route and never took a good bale off his field, which BTW is 20 acres.

They were a little strange when we first started doing business, like the strings had to be 'just so' on each bale and if they weren't, this guy would pull the strings and dump the bale. I just started charging him for each rebale. That ended that real quick. Whatever the counter says, it is.

We are to the point (after 4 years) that they don't even bother calling me because they think it's time to run the field. I decide and tell them so they can get a crew together and get it put up.

It's so much easier when you as the owner, don't have to decide anything. In their case, I think they are Democrats. Never asked though. Their money is always good, they pay promptly, in cash and the wife and I always get fresh eggs from their chickens.

So yes, Lama people are strange but their money is green and they aren't flakey payers.


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## ARD Farm

............Now, I picked up a new customer just a week ago. The field is in berween 2 of my established jobs and is 17 acres of mixed alfalfa, clover and grass. They have dressage horses whatever those are. I don't have a clue. They all crap and eat and thats all I want to know.

They are crying about how bad it is (it is bad here, dry, hot and not much regrowth) and how money is tight (but they just got back from abroad, Europe for 2 weeks...... I can't afford to go a Tigers game and they go to Europe. Go figure....









Just mowed it Sunday. Its a sweet field, smooth as a baby's bottom, no rocks, not even a pebble, straight line running as fas as the discbine will go. I raked it today and will bale it on Wednesday, but this one has to go in the barn so I'm paying for a crew. Hope they don't get flakey with the money. I have no patience with deadbeats.

This might be a one night stand. We shall see.

I think the wagons might stay loaded until payment is made.... in full.


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## mlappin

Dressage is what the press was giving Ann Romney grief about even though she was using it and other forms of treatment for her MS. Personally if they can afford it that's fine by me, at least they were spending their own money on a hobby instead of mine unlike the current administration.


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## slowzuki

I've got to say, only a horse person could dream up "dressage" as treatment for ms. My sister's alpaca / llama thing (I'm not sure what it is, just guards the sheep) gets the same hay as the sheep ie the worst stuff on the farm. Doesn't seem to hurt it.


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## mlappin

slowzuki said:


> I've got to say, only a horse person could dream up "dressage" as treatment for ms. My sister's alpaca / llama thing (I'm not sure what it is, just guards the sheep) gets the same hay as the sheep ie the worst stuff on the farm. Doesn't seem to hurt it.


MS affects your ability to control your muscles, dressage takes fine motor control to relay what you want the horse to do next without your commands being obvious to the crowd or the judges. At least that's how I understand it.


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## slowzuki

I'm just saying using horses to exercise your fine motor skills is about the most round about way to do it. Sounds like a way to try to claim a 40,000$ horse on your taxes as medical expense. The guy at work with MS just walks and uses a pen or computer mouse / keyboard to keep up his motor skills.



mlappin said:


> MS affects your ability to control your muscles, dressage takes fine motor control to relay what you want the horse to do next without your commands being obvious to the crowd or the judges. At least that's how I understand it.


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## ARD Farm

It all sounds very good................

In reality however, I find horse people to be excellent at negotiation of a lower price, less than stellar payers and completely ignorant as to hay quality.

My motto is, it goes in the front green comes out the back brown and crappy. I want paid up front when it's green unless you have excellent credit (and I check BTW).

Another week of dry here.


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## swmnhay

Horsey guy not answering phone_*.Looked him up in court proceedings.Propane Co just had him in court a couple weeks ago.So he hasn't pd for last winters propane either.







*_

_*If they both gave up ciggeretts they could pay me back in no time







*_


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## urednecku

swmnhay said:


> _*If they both gave up ciggeretts they could pay me back in no time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_


That will never happen. People will give up food for those damn 'stink sticks'. We have had family call needing help for food money, talking with a smoke in their mouth. Nope, I figure if they can afford to burn it, they can buy food with it instead.


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## swmnhay

*Local News had story about horsey people and high priced hay this morning.*

*They said they had to pay up to $17 for a sm sq of hay that used to sell for 2-4.







If they are paying that much they are frickin stupid.The hay market here would be around $6-8 per bale for good hay.4-5 dollars for poorer hay.Prime grass hay in lg rds or sqrs could be bought for 200-250 per ton.*

*Lady said her colts were only bringing $100 but were worth $1500.







The market is the market lady.If they are bringing a $100 that is what they are worth,not what you think they are worth.*


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> *Lady said her colts were only bringing $100 but were worth $1500.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The market is the market lady.If they are bringing a $100 that is what they are worth,not what you think they are worth.*


She needs to quit breeding them. Until they start opening the slaughter houses back up we will continue to be overrun with grade horses that you can't give away.

Years ago, we had a horse with about $8K invested and my daughter turned down $20K for for it because she said he was worth at least $25K. After I recovered from beating my head against a wall, I explained the Law of Values: *The value of an item (or animal) is solely determined by what one person is willing to pay and what the other person is willing to accept......Period*. As I recall, the horse ultimately sold for around $15K. Thank goodness she learned that lesson before the horse market tanked.


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## TheFastMan_2

As I understand it, horse slaughter is legal again, but no one is doing it because to sell the meat it has to be inspected. However, the gubmit won't fund the inspection of it, so no one wants to pay to have it inspected. Plus, I don't know who the heck would buy horse meat. I'd think it would have to be exported somehow? Not any slaughterhouse can just start slaughtering horses either. A horse carcass is a bit different than a beef carcass and you would have to have higher rails and whatnot to accomodate that.

Local farm equipment and livestock auction went on this past weekend. I didn't make it out, but I heard they had about 35 horses, of which like 20 some were Amish, that were selling for around $150 each. I think that is the most horses they have had there that I can recall. LIke said, horses are only worth what someone will pay no matter what you think they are worth. Getting slaughterhouses back up would at least give us a base price.


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## swmnhay

_On the same TV stations website they have ads.There is 222 ads for horses.About 40 for all other livestock combined._


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## Tim/South

I have had people bring their horses here and *tell* me they were giving them to me (not ask if I would take them).
Sorry lady, I do not want your horses. I do not care how nice they would look running in my pasture.

Had a friend who went to a place for trail rides in the National Forrest. When he and his wife returned there were 3 horses tied in their 4 horse trailer.
They need to go for zoo food. Zoo's are going broke feeding animals.


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## swmnhay

_Yesterday._

_Was leaving for the Fair and driving by our small town of Reading about 9AM.Noticed sheriff pickup driving slow by friends house on edge of town.Then we neet another deputy coming into town.Hmmm,wonder whats up?Today in paper report of horse mistreatment in police log.Old guy on other side of our Big town.LOL_

_Jeeze.2 deputies to check out a horse not getting fed?Yea they got some hay from me and last check bounced for $60 but this totally pisses me off.It takes 2 deputies to do this,the guy is like 90 yrs old and not totally there.He can't afford them but don't the cops have some thieves or druggies to worry about??_


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## Mike120

swmnhay said:


> _ but don't the cops have some thieves or druggies to worry about??_


In Minnesota???? I am shocked and dismayed.....


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## swmnhay

Mike120 said:


> In Minnesota???? I am shocked and dismayed.....


Yea we got our share of riff raff here also.









http://www.co.nobles.mn.us/Departments/SheriffsOffice/NoblesCountyJail/InmateListings.aspx


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## somedevildawg

Yea the Vikings......sorry...... still thinking about that party they had a few years ago.....


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## Nitram

I got one for ya...My ex got her horse the other day (5yrs ) and I had to chuckle she was driving her SUV with my gator trailer and one of my bales,small stock tank,salt block. And I was following with My Tahoe and horse trailer and her Arabian. I thought there is definitely no making money on those things if you have to give hay etc. to get rid of them! Martin


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## swmnhay

Nitram said:


> I got one for ya...My ex got her horse the other day (5yrs ) and I had to chuckle she was driving her SUV with my gator trailer and one of my bales,small stock tank,salt block. And I was following with My Tahoe and horse trailer and her Arabian. I thought there is definitely no making money on those things if you have to give hay etc. to get rid of them! Martin


So after 5 yrs she finally gets her horse?Did you charge her room & board for the horse for 5 yrs?









Karen has a Arabian also.I called it a Nag yesterday.That didn't go over very well.


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## Nitram

dats a long story but no... I am one of those nice guys that finishes last! I guess the divorce settlement was not too hard on me so...I do what I can to keep the piece and make it easier on the boys so they don't have to hear what a sob their father is.


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## deadmoose

Is everyone ready to donate?









http://wap.myfoxtwincities.com/w/main/story/80897303/


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## swmnhay

deadmoose said:


> Is everyone ready to donate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://wap.myfoxtwin...story/80897303/


I donated last yr to some of these deadbeats.







Bankruptcy and rubber checks.
I didn't sell any hay to horsey folf this yr.I'm sick of their crap.


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## Mike120

"_A 30-pound bail of hay costs $4.75_" .....What/who the heck makes a 30# bale??? And, why?

"_The group is relying on financial help from the Minnesota Humane Society as well as private and corporate donations to make it possible. Eventually, they'd like to have hay suppliers in all four corners of the state to ensure no more images of starving and malnourished horses crop up in Minnesota ever again_."

More idiots with no concepts of actual animal husbandry relying on the public coffers to support their views of Nirvana and expecting producers to "contribute" to their cause. I noticed that they had attorneys so y'all might as well give hay to them, otherwise they'll want to pass laws to redistribute your "wealth" to those less fortunate animals. After all, you can't eat it.


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## swmnhay

Mike120 said:


> "_A 30-pound bail of hay costs $4.75_" .....What/who the heck makes a 30# bale??? And, why?
> 
> "_The group is relying on financial help from the Minnesota Humane Society as well as private and corporate donations to make it possible. Eventually, they'd like to have hay suppliers in all four corners of the state to ensure no more images of starving and malnourished horses crop up in Minnesota ever again_."
> 
> More idiots with no concepts of actual animal husbandry relying on the public coffers to support their views of Nirvana and expecting producers to "contribute" to their cause. I noticed that they had attorneys so y'all might as well give hay to them, otherwise they'll want to pass laws to redistribute your "wealth" to those less fortunate animals. After all, you can't eat it.


I would bet that some of these lawyers are going to get paid from the donations along with the people running it.


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## urednecku

deadmoose said:


> Is everyone ready to donate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://wap.myfoxtwin...story/80897303/


I've got a couple bales that were left in the baler for 3 or 4 weeks, I think it only rained twice. Tell 'em to come on down, I'll even throw em in the car for 'em.


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## InterLake

I make a good part of my income from horsey people. Almost all of them know what they are doing. Any that don't either learn or disappear. I try to please them, unless it is impossible or they are too fussy. I find a way to lose the ones that are away too picky. They all pay. They know that if they don't, they will have to get their hay somewhere else. I have no problem getting customers to replace them. Years ago I had a customer who didn't pay. He did pay some a few years later. If I ever get anymore from him, I will count it as a bonus. I have had a few bad cheques, but all of the customers paid. I did get stung on a phony 20 dollar bill - a pretty good imitation that almost fooled the credit union. Unfortunately I was depositing money from three customers, so I had no way to tell who I got it from. I am fortunate that I have steady customers - quite a few have been doing business here for 20 years or more. I try to be honest with them, deal with problems and complaints well and provide good service. They call ahead, understand if I need to have them come at a different time, and pay. Because I am in this for the long haul, I keep my prices steady. I increase them, of course, but not excessively. I never decrease my prices. I don't dicker - that is the price. I get to know what they want and need; they get to know what kind of hay I sell and how I operate.


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## mlappin

Good points interlake. I don't dicker either, this is the price, if they start dickering and don't stop, just like the soup nazi. NO HAY FOR YOU.









But the only bad checks for hay I've ever got were from horse folks. Have an amishman that has came and picked up two 14 bale loads for himself and family, he wanted 5 but he's only getting two. Why? Like you I have no problems getting rid of it all and both times he came to get hay he had to argue about where to even park the trailer when I was loading it. Sorry but my goal in life is to reduce daily aggravations, not find more.


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## ANewman

A woman bought a couple of net wrapped mixed grass hay rolls from me. I told her it had some stemmy Johnsongrass in it. She wanted to know if it was for horses. I explained to her that I don't claim that any of my hay is or is not horse quality. She would have to look at it and judge for herself. So she sends her husband and teenage son to pick it up. I told them to look at it to see if it suited them. They glanced at it, and the son said as long as its ok for horses its fine. I told him the same thing as I told his mom. They said load it up.

A few days later the woman called back raising cane with me on the phone claiming her horses wouldn't touch the hay. She said I gave her cow hay instead of horse hay.I explained again that I made no claim of it was horse hay or not.

After asking a few questions, trying to calm her down,I asked if they had already unwrapped both rolls. Come to find out, THEY DIDN'T EVEN TAKE THE NET OFF! What idiots! I'm sure if one of the horses had choked on the net she woulda wanted me to pay for it.


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## Nitram

Oh dear lord....warning labels on hay! Remove before feeding!


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## swmnhay

ANewman said:


> After asking a few questions, trying to calm her down,I asked if they had already unwrapped both rolls. Come to find out, THEY DIDN'T EVEN TAKE THE NET OFF! What idiots! I'm sure if one of the horses had choked on the net she woulda wanted me to pay for it.


Had a horsey customer that never takes their net off.Most of the time just dumps the bale in middle of pen.Netwrap laying all over.I sold to them abot 4 yrs.About 2.5 bales per week = 20,000' of net wrap.3.8 miles of net.









I do know they had a few horses die during that time.But if you throw them a whole bale then wait till they are gant before giving them another bale it could be anything??









They don't answer the phone anymore and owe me for the last load of hay.


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## mlappin

I had a guy that would place a bale on it's end, then slit the net in three places and pull it down the bale, then he'd place a ring feeder around it, claimed they wasted a lot less hay.

He was buying on average 5 bales a week from me.


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## askinner

Guys, I stumbled across this the other day, just goes to show what we're up against! The chaff mill owner didn't make it any easier on himself, but I was amazed at the way they carried on like it was a deliberate act.

A bit long winded, but gives you a good insight into the goings on (or lack thereof) upstairs of some. Enjoy!

http://forum.cyberhorse.com.au/forums/showthread.php?102563-WARNING-Asbestos-found-in-lucerne-chaff


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## Mike120

That was a wonderful read!!! Sadly that type of hysteria goes on all the time. I wonder what caused Leesa to get it tested in the first place. Unless there was a large chunk in it, I would not think that your typical horse owner would look at a bag of Lucerne/Alfalfa and wonder if it contained asbestos.


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## askinner

Mike120 said:


> That was a wonderful read!!! Sadly that type of hysteria goes on all the time. I wonder what caused Leesa to get it tested in the first place. Unless there was a large chunk in it, I would not think that your typical horse owner would look at a bag of Lucerne/Alfalfa and wonder if it contained asbestos.


Yes, there was a large chunk of fibro board in the bag. My guess would be the baler has picked up a piece of board someone has dumped, and it's made its way all the way through. Not according to the horse folk though, according to them it was a conspiracy to wipe them all out lol!

I noticed a dead quail in a windrow the other day I must have put through the mower, and though to myself I'll grab it out later. Forgot all about it and baled it up. I hope I don't sell to Leesa, I could end up being reported to the anti-corruption commission for running an illegal hay tainting racket aimed at horse folk. She may end up launching an investigation to catch me in the act. That must be why I bale under the cover of darkness, so they don't see me


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## somedevildawg

And the quail aren't active.....just rabbits


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## wheatridgefarmMD

At what point do you consider selling/getting rid of your horses? You dont have a working vehicle, your on government assistance, your handicapped, youve now lost your phone line and have to borrow a relatives cell phone to call your hay supplier? Wondered why I had not heard from them in many months.


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## swmnhay

They probably should sell them so they can pay their heat bill and the Propane Co.doesn't have to file a claim against them.









Or before someone turns them in for animal neglect because their ribs are showing.

OMG they gave up cell phones?Wonder if they gave up ciggeretts & beer also?


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## somedevildawg

Come on, you're kidding right......cigs? Beer? .....I have a lady that buys 21 bales every 3 days, tried to give her a deal the other day on some hay that had a tarp blow back and got a little wet, just surface moisture. Told her I would sell her that hay for 2.50 pb, nope, she wants nothing but the good stuff for her horses, (16) of them she just inherited, so lesson learned, only the 6.50 stuff is good for her horses........how stupid could I be to think the other stuff would work....she was however (along with 98% here) a Romney supporter...


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## IslandBreeze

I think I've told the story before but I had a nice run with some horse people this summer. After me & this lady agreed price on me taking down a horse shed in another town & relocating it on her property they were no where to be found when it came time to pay. The con-man alarm was already going off in my head when her husband came & told me how great a conservative he was, why he was & why everything was my parties fault. Well, after the barn was put back up they decided to tell me that they were broke & couldn't pay me. I informed them that they would be paying me something that day & that wasn't negotiable. He proceeded to tell me that having 7 horses on 5 acres was killing them & they were 2 months behind on their mortgage, which was $2100/ month. You should of heard the silence when I asked him if he thought it would of been a better idea to pay the bank a month of mortgage instead of building another stupid horse cover. They ended up paying me $2500 spread over 6-8 weeks. I'm still owed $900 & was promised that I would be payed in Sept. Everytime I call them they won't answer the phone or call me back. I'm only 36 but I'm old school mentality when it comes to your word being ur bond. I know that they will end up paying $900 plus interest to some mechanic or glass man in town this summer. Money won't go to me but at least I will have a little satisfaction.

I only worked for 1 other horse person when I built about a $750,000 arena & stables for dressage horses. She had horses that supposedly ranged from $15,000- 80,000 but thought she would try & beat my price down every week when it was time to pay. Everytime I would just say "go hire them college boys that are dragging brush for u". For some reason she didn't trust college kids to put a red iron structure that she would be pretty much living in.

My red flags- Somebody telling me they have a Christian company or how great a conservative they are or they're a lawyer or they say I'm going to build 20 houses at once so get me a good price. Any of those will end a business converstaion instantly with me.


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## mlappin

More than liklely you are dealing with RINO's. *R*epublican *I*n* N*ame *O*nly.

From my experience a true conservative never beats their chest claiming to be a conservative. Another easy tell, if a conservative can't afford something, they don't buy it, that includes having work done they can't afford.

These days both parties are equally responsible for the cluster f*ck this country has become.


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## IslandBreeze

mlappin, from my 15 years of having my own business they were about par for the course. Now I have dealt with some nice conservatives same as I have dealt with some nice liberals, all I'm saying is if they throw up keywords I catch on pretty quick. It is know different selling hay or selling a building, if ur gut tells u that u don't trust them or u don't like them, then u should probably save yourself some time & aggravation & RUN, not walk away. If not, just give ur product to them & hope they will pay u someday when they feel like it.

Mlappin, you have never said a truer statement than your last sentence.


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## circlehfarms

IslandBreeze, I have been though almost that exact same scenario. I couldn't imagine getting someone to do work for me knowing good and well that I can't pay them in a timely matter. But nowadays its become very common. Like Mlappin said clusterf**k is right.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Just gave up sub contracting for a builder that i did all there Tile Work for about the last 3 years, just recently cause they aren't paying, i busted my butt all the time for them and pulled off other jobs i was guranteed to get payed for right away, just to do there jobs to keep them happy and this is what i get in return. I thought i was going to be out a few thousand, but i got a little more serious and threaten going to the DJ, then i got my check, so the nice guy i am they called me back again to do a small job and of coarse i did it, havn't been paid yet, that was 6 months ago. Oh well they have some law suits against them now from homeowners and sub contractors, so i'm not worried about it, it is what it is.

Also had a Horse Stable owner lady come to buy hay from my neighbor this year and her dang check bounced, he called and she brought cash out the next day. They board like 30 horses come on now they should have the cash flow, but actuallly they were introuble with the last we come to find out a few months later. Were involved in taking serial numbers off excavating equipment and resaling it. Long story short it was a whole family business, of excavating, trash disposal, horse stable, and they got caught dumping and burying loads of public trash on there property, few million in fines and lawsuits still going on.


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## IslandBreeze

Circleh, we wouldn't because we actually have what they call guilt. I give mlappin hell but I really don't think it has anything to do with blue or red. I think it has to do if u know the difference between right & wrong.

whitmer, I've been there. They don't need you til there n a bind. Nothing feels as good though as when them a$$ holes call for a job & u say NO! or u say I'll b there & never show. Throwing a wrench n their system will always put a smile on my face.


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## somedevildawg

IslandBreeze said:


> Circleh, we wouldn't because we actually have what they call guilt. I give mlappin hell but I really don't think it has anything to do with blue or red. I think it has to do if u know the difference between right & wrong.
> 
> whitmer, I've been there. They don't need you til there n a bind. Nothing feels as good though as when them a$$ holes call for a job & u say NO! or u say I'll b there & never show. Throwing a wrench n their system will always put a smile on my face.


Always goes back to the quote that's penned (at least by me) to JCWATTS "character is doing what's right.....when nobody is looking"


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## swmnhay

swmnhay said:


> They probably should sell them so they can pay their heat bill and the Propane Co.doesn't have to file a claim against them.
> 
> Or before someone turns them in for animal neglect because their ribs are showing.
> 
> OMG they gave up cell phones?Wonder if they gave up ciggeretts & beer also?


Well someone turned them in for animal neglect and they made the paper today.The paper put the street and the mile # in the paper but not thier name.If you neglected a cow or pig like that they would plaster your name all over the front page.


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## swmnhay

Update on the Horsey gal.She phoned me few weeks ago and asked how much she owed me.Apologized over and over and heard all the excuses why they had not pd me.Lost her job,medical bills,and dealing with health ins co.Well she said I was to get pd in 2 weeks and it is now 3+ weeks.I won't be surprised if I get a Bankruptcy notice in the mail.


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## ontario hay man

I do cash only. Dont give cash dont receive hay. Simple as that. I dont know how you guys feel comfortable giving them hay on the pay later system. My friend did that and when they didnt pay the 1000 bill we went and took there tractor til they paid. That got the bill paid in minutes. Now he does no cash no hay like most others around here.


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## mlappin

Cash only from horse folks, or I swipe their card and let the bank deal with ISF.


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## ontario hay man

mlappin said:


> Cash only from horse folks, or I swipe their card and let the bank deal with ISF.


Some cattle guys are shady too


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## Coondle

In Western Australia most small squares are sold by the bale, some big bales too, but a lot a big bales are sold per Tonne (1000kg or 2200 lbs).

I get $8 per small in the shed plus delivery if required. Or around $6.80 to $7 per small for bulk orders, 5300 or so to one customer last season.

Horse owners generally know ZERO about hay but spout all sorts of rubbish very similar to what comes out of the south end of a northbound horse.

My list of what comprises good hay is real short.

If your horse eats it and likes it then it is good hay, no matter what it looks like, has in it or smells like. If your horse won't eat the greenest sweetest smelling hay with top carbs, protein and digestability it is no good.

Some other truisms for horse owners and horses:

They will find money to feed their horse even if they have to starve themselves.

It is funny what a hungry horse will eat.

A hungry horse is happy to get even low quality hay.

Everyone else has better quality and cheaper hay than you.

Never try to reason why horse owners defy logic when sourcing hay.

Never argue with a horse owner, if they don't like what you have got at your price, then encourage them to go somewhere else for their hay.

A horse owner that thinks logically is indeed a dangerous being.

Have fun because it doesn't matter what they look like or smell like the smell of their money is good in your wallet .

And more people in urban areas are getting into horses so it is a growing market.

As a farmer I know once said:

"The pigs might stink but the money doesn't".


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## ontario hay man

Coondle said:


> In Western Australia most small squares are sold by the bale, some big bales too, but a lot a big bales are sold per Tonne (1000kg or 2200 lbs).
> I get $8 per small in the shed plus delivery if required. Or around $6.80 to $7 per small for bulk orders, 5300 or so to one customer last season.
> Horse owners generally know ZERO about hay but spout all sorts of rubbish very similar to what comes out of the south end of a northbound horse.
> My list of what comprises good hay is real short.
> If your horse eats it and likes it then it is good hay, no matter what it looks like, has in it or smells like. If your horse won't eat the greenest sweetest smelling hay with top carbs, protein and digestability it is no good.
> Some other truisms for horse owners and horses:
> They will find money to feed their horse even if they have to starve themselves.
> It is funny what a hungry horse will eat.
> A hungry horse is happy to get even low quality hay.
> Everyone else has better quality and cheaper hay than you.
> Never try to reason why horse owners defy logic when sourcing hay.
> Never argue with a horse owner, if they don't like what you have got at your price, then encourage them to go somewhere else for their hay.
> A horse owner that thinks logically is indeed a dangerous being.
> Have fun because it doesn't matter what they look like or smell like the smell of their money is good in your wallet .
> And more people in urban areas are getting into horses so it is a growing market.
> As a farmer I know once said:
> "The pigs might stink but the money doesn't".


Must be a different market for hogs over there because when I had 50 sows the money stunk as bad as the pigs. Now that I have none they go through the roof lol. Also I have an advantage. Because I breed and race horses but always had cattle. The horse thing is a new deal for me. It gives me the advantage that I have all my practical knowledge from being a cattle farmer plus people can look at my success racing and say his hay must be good lets buy his. Its a combination that works really good for selling.


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## mlappin

ontario hay man said:


> Some cattle guys are shady too


Never been stuck by a cattle guy.


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## ontario hay man

[quote name="mlappin" post="109081" timestamp="1380131767"]Never been stuck by a cattle guy.[/quote
We got a few around here that will even steal cattle to. Others just dont like to pay. Most are very good.


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## Coondle

Always a first time! The cash on/before delivery is the best option. It is real hard to put hay back together once it has been through a horse and it looks even harder once through a cow. Though I am up for a challenge I must admit that I haven't tried to reverse the horse hay thing. Been stung once or twice, not big time, but once you set the standard there are no expectations of hay without pay. I have noticed that it costs me as much to produce a bale of hay I do not get paid for as it does for one I do. THe difference is the cost of the one I don't get paid for comes out of Net profit of the one I do. That means there ain't no profit for me in 2 bales the one I don't and the one I do. I like to think I'm good at making hay, so I got to the point in life really early that I do not need to make hay for practice . I need to make it for profit. Profit does tend to make me smile  and wipe away the frustration of haying and dealing with unhappy folks. 

It tends to make my bank manager happy too, if ever accountant types could be happy!

It is a great business we are in, turning growing green stuff into hay and selling it to people that give our perfectly good hay to animals that turn it into s***. Ain't life grand!


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## Hayman1

Now you guys need to chill. It sounds to me like you don't have a good customer screening program in place. All my customers pay and they are all HORSE people. Hell, I rode my horse today. Had one customer demand to pay even though she said her horses would not eat the hay-I think it was a little green adn I told her so, but she forgot. Now, I am not saying that they are the most savvy buyers or whatever, but I have no issues. Therefore, you have to ask yourself, do you feel lucky?


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## swmnhay

There are some good people that own horses and pay their bills.

And there are Horsey people that have more horses then they can afford to feed.Sometimes they don't get fed or cared for and get turned in for neglect.

By the way we have a horse and it is well cared for.Sometimes better cared for then me!!!!

So not all people that own horses are lumped into the same group.


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## mlappin

Hayman1 said:


> Now you guys need to chill. It sounds to me like you don't have a good customer screening program in place. All my customers pay and they are all HORSE people. Hell, I rode my horse today. Had one customer demand to pay even though she said her horses would not eat the hay-I think it was a little green adn I told her so, but she forgot. Now, I am not saying that they are the most savvy buyers or whatever, but I have no issues. Therefore, you have to ask yourself, do you feel lucky?


So do mine, always. Cash in hand or they're credit or debit card gets ran before they get the first bale.

Every single bad check I've ever gotten for hay were from horse people, a few of them even disappeared before making it right. I've never had a check bounce from beef, sheep, or dairy people, ever.


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## Coondle

There are good and bad people in all walks of life, there are bad people selling hay. The buyers know that and very rarely take much of a chance, they usually inspect, take a sample, or only a small load first. That said I have had a customer buy a road-train load of 900 bales first deal, when hay was scarce.

My customer screening works, the screen is payment before delivery, even if it is by cheque for people with whom I have dealt with for some time and I have their contact details address and vehicle number, otherwise cash.

Must admit I have not had a cheque bounce, and cheques are going out of fashion so see fewer of them. In general the fodder industry here is cash so I am not out of step.


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## swmnhay

*Well the bigger cattle guys here are not going to prepay.And you will probably not get paid until the end of the month when their secratery makes out checks.It works great for me as yr around customers.Get pd once per month.*

*Yea there are certain cattle guys that I would not do this with.Esp the ones that tell you they will pay after they get pd for something,selling calves,etc.Typically they have a long list of people waiting to get a piece of the same check.*

*I had a cement contractor wanting to trade hay for concrete,rebar & labor.Came time to do the job he had no money for the materials.Just the labor,so I've ended up pouring a lot of concrete to get evened up with him.*


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## Circle MC Farms LLC

I've dealt with my fair share of horsey/shady/slippery people, we've only been burned once though, after that we only accept cash or let the cheque clear before delivery. The broker/dealer/hay buyer that bought 118 of my round bales last year paid by cheque and understands that we need it to clear first. Tuesday after it cleared he showed up with three semi's, we loaded him, and he was on his way. I also deal locally with some horse and cattle people, cattle people are less picky but are willing to pay less, so it's a trade off  Horse people around here just want to make sure there's no Prussic acid and that it's not too stalky, otherwise they don't give me too much trouble and are usually more willing to pay my asking price. I don't advertise except word of mouth and feed store ads, so I don't get many of the pampered urban horsey ladies that buy their horse feed from Petco (or those goofy mini-bales from wally world)


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## bunkhouse

Got horse people near by using small sqs. paying $ 5 to 7 per. sq. alfalfa

a lot of horse people have started to switch to orchard or Midwest growed Bermuda no dust

I offered 5x5 orchard for $120 a bale, but for her and friends $100 ea. and they thought price was high. $100 for my hay was equal to their small bales about 20-22 bales per. my rounds. GO FIGURE.

JOHN

Shipman, IL.


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## JD3430

I hate to admit this, but I'm one of the few that just trusts people. I do take checks. 
Never been burned on a check for hay (yet).
I ask to be paid in cash. Most say yes. If they insist on a check, I usually accept because there's plenty of other hay sellers that will accept a check, too and I don't want to lose a sale to them. I don't sell a large quantity to a first time buyer if they use a check. I'll usually cap it at $500 until they gain my trust. 
I really want to get the square credit card swipes like MLappin has.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> I really want to get the square credit card swipes like MLappin has.


There is another one as well that simply takes a picture of the card and reads the numbers off the picture so you don't need that pesky card reader. If you have a case for your phone then you'll need a extension cable and so on.

Here it is, appears to be iPhone only. https://www.flint.com/lpb/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=sem&utm_term=flint&utm_content=MblPymts&utm_campaign=lpb_DSK_SEM_Brand&gclid=CI_Nr5uY87kCFYxaMgod1yUAxw

Is pretty slick though. Maybe you can find something similar for Android phones. https://www.flint.com/how-it-works/


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## aawhite

Anybody ever ask for a credit statement or letter of credit from high volume customers? When I sold corn to feedlots for Cargill, we could only allow them to carry so without payment. For the big feedlots, we asked for a letter of credit from their bank, usually around $250,000. Only had one feedlot ever complain or even comment, and he went broke 6 months later.

I know that's pretty different thinking for the hay industry, but feedlots and such end up doing it all the time for grain elevators.


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## swmnhay

It's a Miracle.Horsey gal cleaned up her bill.18 months past due. 

Customer for 5-6 yrs just got farther and farther behind.They are buying else where now which is fine with me.No more bringing them hay in a snowstorm or putting the bale in the feeder.And waiting for payment.


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## Coondle

Who said miracles only happen at Christmas time?

I bet it was as good as Christmas!


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## bluefarmer

One of our local banks offers a card reader that plugs in a smarter than me phone,neighbor uses it says its cheaper than ones advertised on tv


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## hillside hay

I got a new one. Just got an email from someone asking if I had hay available and if it was any good to feed? FEED WHAT???!!! No you f'n moron! I just spend thousands a year on seed, fertilizer, machinery, repairs, and labor just to bale hay not worth feeding. Asked if they wanted a RFV haven't heard back yet. Probably googling what I meant. I'm thinking their price might go up.


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## JD3430

hillside hay said:


> I got a new one. Just got an email from someone asking if I had hay available and if it was any good to feed? FEED WHAT???!!! No you f'n moron! I just spend thousands a year on seed, fertilizer, machinery, repairs, and labor just to bale hay not worth feeding. Asked if they wanted a RFV haven't heard back yet. Probably googling what I meant. I'm thinking their price might go up.


Yep, better add a 10% "moron" charge.
Prolly show up in a jacked up pickup that's impossible to load, then ask you to load it for them.


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## ontario hay man

JD3430 said:


> Yep, better add a 10% "moron" charge.
> Prolly show up in a jacked up pickup that's impossible to load, then ask you to load it for them.


You are very generous jd I usually charge atleast 25% moron charge. 50% if they dont learn the first time. I had a guy ask me a million questions then buy some hay. He then calls the next week and asks me the same million questions. So I just asked him one thing. "Did your horses eat it and like it?" "Ya" "so why ask all the questions again just come get more hay. Lol dummy.


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## Maryland Ridge Farms

Amen! Most horse people don't know what they are buying just that someone told them it was good! but look out when the get in a bind like before a storm or when hay is short. If I cant sell it for what it takes to make money I will feed to to my cows they will appreciate it


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## swmnhay

This is pretty sad.8-12 dead horses.Not positive of who it is but think its a gal 2 miles from me by looking at the pic.

http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/possible-animal-abuse-case-under-investigation/?id=162234


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## swmnhay

A little more info from local paper.

http://www.dglobe.com/content/15-dead-horses-discovered-reading-farm


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## bluefarmer

If they would re-open the horse slaughter house it help a lot of the problems


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## hog987

But its cruel to slaughter horses. Sad thing is the people making the rules never really though things like this could happen..... uumm some stupid people making stupid rules.


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## JD3430

hog987 said:


> But its cruel to slaughter horses. Sad thing is the people making the rules never really though things like this could happen..... uumm some stupid people making stupid rules.


I agree its cruel ot slaughter horses.
Funny but sad how much people object to slaughtering this or that animal, yet our own people and our own government slaughter thousands of children in late term abortions with taxpayer funds every year and no one gives a crap. 
I can't sleep at night knowing my tax money is going to funding planned parenthood abortion clinics and the Dr Tillers of the world and I'm not an overly religious person.

UK Hospitals heated with aborted babies:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/03/24/Aborted-Babies-Burned-to-Heat-NHS-Hospitals


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## bluefarmer

I hope y'all are being sarcastic when you say it's cruel to kill horses!


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## hog987

bluefarmer said:


> I hope y'all are being sarcastic when you say it's cruel to kill horses!


I dont think its cruel but the people making the rules sure think that way. I dont know if they stopped it or not, but they were trying to stop horses from coming into Canada for slaughter. They posted video of one plant in lethbridge show how in humane they handled the stock. Funny thing was that was not even the lethbridge plant. I forget where the pictures were taking but not even at the plant they were trying to shut down.


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## swmnhay

Update on the 15 dead horses near me.They left the live ones there and checking to make sure they are fed.As you can see in the pic in article there is wire and broken gates all over,if you love these horses so much why don't they atleast clean up the wire and broken gates with sharp edges to make sure the animals are not injured.

http://www.dglobe.com/content/15-dead-horses-discovered-reading-farm


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## mlappin

Now for the good question, and don't get me wrong as I would never let any animal starve, but wonder how many hay producers got stiffed?


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## swmnhay

Yea I wonder also.She had never called me for hay,THANKFULLY.I think she bought sm sqrs from local auction.She had no eq for lg rds that I know of.It's only 2 miles away but seldom drive by it being its on a back road.


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## rjmoses

bluefarmer said:


> If they would re-open the horse slaughter house it help a lot of the problems


Sometimes, I'm all in favor of a "people" slaughter houses. I can think of a few thousand that I would gladly haul for nothing! But, in all seriousness, if a person is really concerned, let them ante up and put their money where their mouth is!

Their crusade should not become my responsibility!



hog987 said:


> But its cruel to slaughter horses. Sad thing is the people making the rules never really though things like this could happen..... uumm some stupid people making stupid rules.


It's very easy for me to tell you what you "should" be doing than for me to live my life in an ethical, respectful, dignified manner.

We have all the rules we need in the form of the Ten Commandments.

Ralph


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## mlappin

swmnhay said:


> Yea I wonder also.She had never called me for hay,THANKFULLY.I think she bought sm sqrs from local auction.She had no eq for lg rds that I know of.It's only 2 miles away but seldom drive by it being its on a back road.


Oh jeeze, the loonies' find that out and you'll be made out to be a bad guy as well as you should have gave her some hay then in your 'spare' time you could have hauled your stuff over to her house just to place one bale.


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## swmnhay

mlappin said:


> Oh jeeze, the loonies' find that out and you'll be made out to be a bad guy as well as you should have gave her some hay then in your 'spare' time you could have hauled your stuff over to her house just to place one bale.


I was contacted by email by someone local for hay donation a couple yrs ago.Now that I'm thinking about it its possible it was her.


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## JD3430

When people start breaking my [email protected] about prices, I use my round bale/hay saver strategy on them. I ask them if they'd rather pay $6-8 for small squares or less than $4 for the same hay? 
Then I ask them if they invested $800 in a hay hut, would they like to cut hay consumption almost in half versus throwing small squares on the ground, cutting hay prices almost in half AGAIN? Recouping their feeder investment in about a year? Hay also stays dry and un bleached. 
Believe it or not, few people see it my way. Most people would rather throw money on the ground and watch it get pee-ed on. People don't like to change, but the couple I got to change are ecstatic with the savings. My neighbor is happy that he can now afford to own more head of cattle.

Still love "my girl" next to the barn.......still takes them $8 bales of trash and shakes them out on the ground. 1/2 gets wasted. Now she's paying $16/bale. 
She could get better hay from me for $4/bale. If she bought a feeder by year 2, she'd be about $2.50/bale. 
But why pay $2.50, when she can pay $16 for multi flora and broomsedge? Lol


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## somedevildawg

In the last 3 years I've donated about 120 rolls and 200 small squares for horsey folk around here. All but one donation was for wounded warrior project.......the other, the ladies horses were starving....


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## JD3430

My family is into WWP fund raising.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> My family is into WWP fund raising.


Thats a good one.

I've been running the cell phone for soldiers thing at the VFW for awhile now. Not necessarily out of ability or anything, I brought it up at a meeting and it automatically became my baby.


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## rjmoses

So, ready for this?

Today, I was delivering a load of round bales to a relatively new customer.

Last month I delivered a load to her and her next door neighbor came out and asked if I had any more like that. I delivered a load to him and he said he would probably want another load.

Last week, I took several loads to the auction barn about 35 miles away and they sold for $50 a bale, same as what I charged the lady today for a load delivered.

As I was unloading this morning, I noticed that the neighbor had a bunch of round bales sitting on a car trailer.

They kinda looked familiar so I looked closer -- they were mine!

I mark every other bale with the field ID and cutting number when I put them into storage.

He paid at auction what I sell them for delivered. I took the hit for the auction fee and he paid to have them hauled from auction to his place.

Ralph


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## urednecku

> He paid at auction what I sell them for delivered. I took the hit for the auction fee and he paid to have them hauled from auction to his place.


Ain't that what we are supposed to be doing? "spread the wealth"?

They say it takes all kinds to make the world go around.


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## swmnhay

rjmoses said:


> He paid at auction what I sell them for delivered. I took the hit for the auction fee and he paid to have them hauled from auction to his place.
> 
> Ralph


Many times at auction I would have guys come up after the load sold and want to get a load for the price it sold less the commission.I told them if they wanted it they should of bid on it,they never even bid on it.If they would of the price would of been higher yet.

If they would of bid on it and got it I'd gladly bring them more,less commission.


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## swmnhay

Update on the neighbor with the dead horses.Pretty serious charges.

http://www.dglobe.com/content/charges-filed-animal-neglect-case


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## Circle MC Farms LLC

I've got another one for you guys.

There's this place near where I live that's a therapeutic riding place for disabled people. Great cause, good people. They needed hay and I sold them 11 round bales (1 gobob load) of fertilized/weed killed mixed grass, johnson grass and prairie hay. It was actually some of my better stuff and I explained to them exactly what was in it. So i delivered in for free (35 miles) and no one was around when I dropped it off.

Two weeks go by and the lady calls me saying the hay is cow hay and they won't feed it to horses. I told her no, it was good hay and I feed it to my horses (fat as anything) go ahead and feed it. She says no and proceeds to have the local USDA agent "test" my hay. This guy doesn't like me because I don't buy his $16/lb native grass seed.

The "report" comes back saying my hay is worthless and was cut when dry and dead in late summer. It's painfully obvious that he simply took a handful of the hay and bsed a report because he named a couple grasses that I know for a fact don't grow on my farm.

Anyway, they asked me to buy these 11 rolls back and being that it's a non profit charity I said yes. *Biggest mistake of my life*. I was making arrangements to pick this hay back up and asked if they had a tractor with loader, they said yes so I set up a time and went up there on a saturday. I get there and the first thing I see is that only two of the 11 bales are left. Keep in mind they were trying to get me to buy back 11 of them. It gets even better, I walk over to the tractor I'm supposed to be loading and it's a 35 hp kubota with nothing but a bucket on the loader 

So I had to drive 35 miles home, get a flatbed and come back so i could pick the bales with the back spike and back the tractor up on the trailer to drop them. I was quite pissed and spent half a day for two friggin round bales. Pretty much what happened is they fed 9 of the 11 and found two they didn't like so then they tried giving me a bad name and making me buy all 11 back even though there were only two left.

This is why I have always and will always have an absolutely no returns policy. The kindness of my heart got the better of me and I paid the price :angry: Never again will they get any hay from me


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## Bgriffin856

Yep im not running a charity im running a business i don't donate anything or get involved in such matters. taxes are enough


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## Bgriffin856

swmnhay said:


> Update on the neighbor with the dead horses.Pretty serious charges.http://www.dglobe.com/content/charges-filed-animal-neglect-case


As much as i dislike horses they still deserve to be treated and cared for like any animal.....some people don't deserve to have animals at all. Amish included


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## hog987

What you said reminds me when I talkef to a guy at a hay sale. Long story short. This stable was buying square bales from many people. They picked out any bale that was bad. Put them in a pile. So say they got 1000 bales from 5 different guys. 15 bales were bad. They would phone up all 5 guys demanding money back. If the stable was lucky they would get payed by.each guy. Will.anyways the guy I talk to went to check the hay cause all his hay was good. He was so mad. None of the bad bales were even his. The stable asked how do you know. He said cause i dont use that color of twine.

You should have told them you would buy those bales back for 20% less cause now they are used bales.

I just had a horse lady that wanted money back for bad hay. Never did say how bad but wanted money back and wanted me to go pick up the hay. I sent a check in the mail. Told her it was not worth my time to drive 50 miles to pick up 4 bales.


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## JD3430

Hmmm, those are tough stories to read. Sounds like someone who ate 9/10ths of a burger, then demands replacement with another burger because it doesn't taste good.

I really HATE to say this, but as soon as I hear the word "charity", I run fast in the other direction. 
I pick my own charities out and donate $ to them. I try to help my kids school sports teams and WWP. 
Common sense tells me most horse rescues can only stay open if they get free labor and free hay. If they screw a farmer out of money they pay for hay by saying it was no good and getting their money back, they end up getting it free.


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## rjmoses

I've been watching a lot of Judge Judy on TV over the winter. (Been a long winter!)

One of her favorite lines is: "If you ate the steak, you got to pay for it." Her meaning is that if you use most of something, e.g., 8 out f 10 bales of hay, you missed your chance to complain and ask for a refund. If you're not happy with the product, speak up immediately, but don't use a substantial part of it then complain that it didn't meet your needs.

I apply this to hay customers. I will happily refund/pick up/buy back/exchange/educate whatever it takes to make my customer happy, IF they are being ethical and honest. Otherwise....

Like other people have said, I also avoid charities like the plague. Some of the biggest charity organizations are little more than scams. If someone wants to support a particular cause, they have my permission. But don't demand that I support it also. (I have my own private set of causes that I support.)

Ralph


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## JD3430

Oh, and I forgot I donate to my church, too.
I like how my church has a fund to put roofs on homes for poor folks in Appalachia. 
A church in the next town over gives food to illegals. Not sure I like that so much...


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## Bgriffin856

Read a help wanted ad taking bids for someone to clean horse stalls. It read "I provide sawdust and manure removal you supply your time and tools."

Wth?......


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## swmnhay

Just got call from Horsey gal,she wanted hay.She was 18 months past due before she got it pd up last fall.Haven't sold them any hay for 2 yrs now.I am out of hay so it made an easy decision.


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## Coondle

Even if I had hay the decision would be real easy: NO!!!!!!

She had made the decision in the past by not paying

No pay = No hay, ever. :angry:


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## urednecku

Personally don't think I'd say never, but definitely *CASH* BEFORE LOADING.


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## hog987

Cash before loading and put the price up some too lol.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC

rjmoses said:


> I've been watching a lot of Judge Judy on TV over the winter. (Been a long winter!)
> 
> One of her favorite lines is: "If you ate the steak, you got to pay for it." Her meaning is that if you use most of something, e.g., 8 out f 10 bales of hay, you missed your chance to complain and ask for a refund. If you're not happy with the product, speak up immediately, but don't use a substantial part of it then complain that it didn't meet your needs.
> 
> I apply this to hay customers. I will happily refund/pick up/buy back/exchange/educate whatever it takes to make my customer happy, IF they are being ethical and honest. Otherwise....
> 
> Like other people have said, I also avoid charities like the plague. Some of the biggest charity organizations are little more than scams. If someone wants to support a particular cause, they have my permission. But don't demand that I support it also. (I have my own private set of causes that I support.)
> 
> Ralph


That was the most irritating part to me, was that they fed the majority of it, then went to the USDA office and got them to say my hay was crap for horses so they could get their money back. They led me to believe they had all 11 rolls left and a tractor to load my gobob trailer. I get there, they have two rolls left, no tractor with a loader and demanding a check for all 11 rolls. If they were being honest with me I would've been happy to buy it back but I don't buy back hay that the customer has already used.


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## Circle MC Farms LLC

swmnhay said:


> Just got call from Horsey gal,she wanted hay.She was 18 months past due before she got it pd up last fall.Haven't sold them any hay for 2 yrs now.I am out of hay so it made an easy decision.


Same deal here, the place that burned me basically said my reputation would regret it if I didn't buy the hay back, and I've completely sold out with no issues. Still picking up hay buyers and more hay ground right and left. I don't need their business if they want to treat me like that.


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## deadmoose

Some people think they are superior to all and whatever they say goes. Last I checked the earth still revolves around the sun, not them.


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## swmnhay

I see another horsey person made the paper for delinquent taxes for 5 yrs.I've sold to him a few times but was always green backs.

The gal with the dead horses also made paper again for mortgage forclosure.


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## deadmoose

[ account ]CL >st cloud >all for sale / wanted >farm & garden - by owner
reply x prohibited[?] Posted: an hour ago
horse (any)
I asked for help. The help I got was not what it was supposed to be. I asked for help with my horse. As far as I am concerned, my horse was stolen from me. I asked for help up to 2 years, and then, if I was still unable to financially take my horse back, I was open to discuss permanent placement with the helping family. I wanted to send money when I could. I even offered my horse for free lease. Instead, someone I had never met, showed up, and took him. That person would not even sign the contract I had written up. I have no contact info on this person, I have not been able to see my horse, or even know where he is. I am so devastated, that I do not want to live anymore. My horse was my companion and my friend who never asked for more than a kind hand and hay. He gave me everything in return. I am told he is in a good home, but I have no proof. I am told this is a good person, but have recently been told the soon-to-be life partner of this person is not a horse person. That is how I ended up in the situation I am in to begin with. PLEASE, love your horse, and if you are dumb enough to get engaged to someone who does not share your passion for whatever it is in life, don't be dumb enough to marry them. I miss my horse! Not a day goes by I don't think about him! I miss him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make sure you know who is taking your horse or other animals!
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
post id: 4565859696 posted: an hour ago email to friend ♥ best of [?]
Avoid scams, deal locally Beware wiring (e.g. Western Union), cashier checks, money orders, shipping. 
© 2014 craigslist help safety privacy feedback cl jobs terms about mobile


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## deadmoose

Can't make it up. Top ad when I just logged into CL. Sounds like someone neither competent nor responsible enough to own a horse.


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## EZ Bales

Horse folks are interesting (I am one of them) the problem is that there is no way to properly educate them on what good hay is and what it looks like - they have all been miss-informed by another horse person along the way.

We deal mostly in Small square bales (also MINI & Round bales) and have found it entertaining over the years to see what they are looking for and how they tell. The best one was a lady that came to look at our hay, we took her to our hay yard, pulled down a bale for her and opened it. She reached for 2 flakes and fluffed them a bit, then picked them up and smelled them - then LICKED the inside...yup licked the hay and kept talking and didn't miss a beat, she decided it was suitable for her horses and we loaded her truck and off she went.


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## ARD Farm

Probably was looking for proprionic acid preservative. Hay saver leaves a distinct taste an/or aroma on the forage that you can ascertain by tasting it, smelling it, especially if the application exceeds what is required for the RM you are bailing at.


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## Teslan

deadmoose said:


> Can't make it up. Top ad when I just logged into CL. Sounds like someone neither competent nor responsible enough to own a horse.


Under what ad section did you find this gem?


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## deadmoose

Would have been farm and garden.


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## ARD Farm

I have an unwitten credo and it is:

No hay on layaway....

No credit whatsoever. Pay up and load up.

It goes in green and comes out brown.

Charity begins at home, not in my business.

If anyone bought hay from me and later on contacted me and asked for their money back, I'd tell them to bring it all back (at their expense) and the brown stuff made green again.

Never happened to me. Not say'in it can't.

Craigslist is a repository for mentally ill people or it appears to me at least to be the case.


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## JD3430

ARD Farm said:


> I have an unwitten credo and it is:
> 
> No hay on layaway....
> No credit whatsoever. Pay up and load up.
> It goes in green and comes out brown.
> Charity begins at home, not in my business.
> 
> If anyone bought hay from me and later on contacted me and asked for their money back, I'd tell them to bring it all back (at their expense) and the brown stuff made green again.
> 
> Never happened to me. Not say'in it can't.
> 
> Craigslist is a repository for mentally ill people or it appears to me at least to be the case.


Partially agree there. It never ceases to amaze me how DUMB the calls I get are in response to hay I sell on CL
For example "Brittany" calls me. 
Asks me where are you located? Location and zip code are in CL ad.
Asks me what kind of hay? It says what type of hay in CL ad. 
Asks me how much do bales weigh? It says bale weight in CL ad. 
Asks me price for hay? It says price per bale in CL ad.
Asks me do you deliver? It says we deliver in CL ad.

I swear I can't take it anymore. MOST horse people and dumber than jelly fish. Some are quite intelligent.


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## hog987

JD3430 said:


> Partially agree there. It never ceases to amaze me how DUMB the calls I get are in response to hay I sell on CL
> For example "Brittany" calls me.
> Asks me where are you located? Location and zip code are in CL ad.
> Asks me what kind of hay? It says what type of hay in CL ad.
> Asks me how much do bales weigh? It says bale weight in CL ad.
> Asks me price for hay? It says price per bale in CL ad.
> Asks me do you deliver? It says we deliver in CL ad.
> 
> I swear I can't take it anymore. MOST horse people and dumber than jelly fish. Some are quite intelligent.


I don't mind selling to the intelligent horsey people. They know what they want and they will pay for it. Its the ones that can't tell hay from straw that can be frustrating to deal with. Also the intelligent ones can be educated more but the other ones..... will sometimes I have better luck talking to a door knob.


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## Bgriffin856

Not exactly horsey people but pretty much along the same lines

How about a couple who has four kids no jobs live off food stamps and any other government aid they are eligible for plus the man's mother. Getting a 4h steer for the oldest daughter who is just old enough to join 4h. They have to build a new barn for it as well. I guess we the working taxpayers have to keep animals too.....

I dont think that is right. But what do I know....


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## deadmoose

Iust say grif- at least they give the kids a chance to rise up. That lil steer will teach the kid lots about working and many other lessons.


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## somedevildawg

deadmoose said:


> Iust say grif- at least they give the kids a chance to rise up. That lil steer will teach the kid lots about working and many other lessons.


Maybe, hopefully they can break the cycle.....have my doubts tho, home life is a tough obstacle in a lot kids life.....some really have no chance coming out of the womb....


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## R Ball

Now that I have a accumulator we bale almost all small squares. 90% of the hay is sold out of the field.
Cash only. It's takes a act of congress almost to cash a check today and I like cash. Basically have the same customers after a few years. Never had anyone want their money back though. I would probably go look at the hay and if it were molded do to when we baled it yes. If it was another issue no way.
The horse guys I deal with seem to like dealing with someone they can count on , fertilizes , and loads their wagon.


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## ARD Farm

I have one too (accunulator) but it sits on blocks in the barn. It's for 'just in case'. Always good to have an option. I have a really good crew, all older than mid 20's and all know how and what to do without any supervision whatsoever and they are all non-drinkers.

Not saying that won't change which is why I have a backup. I'm a good Scout, always prepared.


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## JD3430

R Ball said:


> Now that I have a accumulator we bale almost all small squares. 90% of the hay is sold out of the field.
> Cash only. It's takes a act of congress almost to cash a check today and I like cash. Basically have the same customers after a few years. Never had anyone want their money back though. I would probably go look at the hay and if it were molded do to when we baled it yes. If it was another issue no way.
> The horse guys I deal with seem to like dealing with someone they can count on , fertilizes , and loads their wagon.


That's what I want to do, sell out of the field because I'm "under-barned". 
Do you find you have to sell at a discount? Only guy I know selling out of field sells for like $3/bale. He's like 80 years old. 
All the cheap skin flints buy from him, but he's not making much hay anymore.


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## endrow

JD3430 said:


> That's what I want to do, sell out of the field because I'm "under-barned".
> Do you find you have to sell at a discount? Only guy I know selling out of field sells for like $3/bale. He's like 80 years old.
> All the cheap skin flints buy from him, but he's not making much hay anymore.


Well you are at here mercy. They have to come when you bale. But you will and can afford to sell below market price.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> Partially agree there. It never ceases to amaze me how DUMB the calls I get are in response to hay I sell on CL
> For example "Brittany" calls me.
> Asks me where are you located? Location and zip code are in CL ad.
> Asks me what kind of hay? It says what type of hay in CL ad.
> Asks me how much do bales weigh? It says bale weight in CL ad.
> Asks me price for hay? It says price per bale in CL ad.
> Asks me do you deliver? It says we deliver in CL ad.
> 
> I swear I can't take it anymore. MOST horse people and dumber than jelly fish. Some are quite intelligent.


Could be somebody just gave her your number from the craigslist ad they saw.

I've had amish do this the few times I advertised on Craigslist. Somebody they work with or a neighbor gives them my number instead of printing the ad off for them.


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## JD3430

mlappin said:


> Could be somebody just gave her your number from the craigslist ad they saw.
> 
> I've had amish do this the few times I advertised on Craigslist. Somebody they work with or a neighbor gives them my number instead of printing the ad off for them.


Yeah, could be, but whenever I get a sales call, I always ask what ad the caller is responding to. That way I can identify which advertising works best.
She told me up front she was responding to my CL ad and that she had read it already.


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## R Ball

It seems to me that all my customers are older and they are willing to,show up,when I tell them. Usually call them the day I cut and the day before I intend to bale . We do sale some hay at $3 but most goes for 3.5+ loaded. Loaded sounds like a big deal but we have to load it to take it to the barn. Our goal is to get all our prices to +4 . I think most are willing to pay for the fertilized , weed wiped, loaded hay. It has just took a couple years to get there.
This year we are at about 4500 sq bales. The weather has not cooperated at all. Our fertilizer cost this year may not be recouped. I think we should already have sold approx 6000 sq. 
If we did not enjoy tractors , livestock, and mowing hay I would move to warmer weather . However this beats the [email protected]&$ out of watching TV and fishing all the time.


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## somedevildawg

We still enjoy tractors, livestock, and mowing hay.......just have a bit more "sweat equity" in it


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## ARD Farm

Bottom line is, if we didn't like doing it, we'd all be in Florida..... It's still a fun business for me. besides, it keeps me outta my wife's hair.


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## ARD Farm

JD3430 said:


> That's what I want to do, sell out of the field because I'm "under-barned".
> Do you find you have to sell at a discount? Only guy I know selling out of field sells for like $3/bale. He's like 80 years old.
> All the cheap skin flints buy from him, but he's not making much hay anymore.


Mlappin will tell you that 'hoop' buildings are cheap, easy to erect and make great hay barns (and hornet nest parking lots too...... 

At least around here (Michigan) they are not considered taxable real estate so no assement for me.

I have a huge one. I keep all the equipment in it, a big load of hay in it and a few of my wife's cats too. Would probably double as a greenhouse, it never freezes inside in the winter.

My wife and I erected it (about cost me a marraige) but we got it done. I had to get the neighboorhood together to put on the cover, it came in one huge piece.

Been up at leat 15 iears now and no issues whatsoever.


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## JD3430

What is the brand of hoop bldg?


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## PaMike

Do you have ends in the hoop building? I would have thought hoops would be colder than cold. The greenhouse idea makes sense...


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## slowzuki

The white coloured ones I've been in I find tend to be cooler than tin pole barns, the dark green ones with closed ends warm up nicely in winter, need to open the ends in summer or too hot.



PaMike said:


> Do you have ends in the hoop building? I would have thought hoops would be colder than cold. The greenhouse idea makes sense...


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## mlappin

PaMike said:


> Do you have ends in the hoop building? I would have thought hoops would be colder than cold. The greenhouse idea makes sense...


 Three of ours just have ends in the west with the east being open, the fourth has no ends and I stack 3 rows of hay I'm going to feed to my cows to protect the "good" hay from the weather.

The white or translucent ones are hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Our silver/grey ones are cool in the summer and warm in the winter even with the east end open. We've worked on the corn planter or combines in the one with sleet/snow going on outside and you didn't need coveralls to do it, wasn't exactly shirt sleeve warm but a insulated flannel was enough for me.


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## ARD Farm

JD3430 said:


> What is the brand of hoop bldg?


Don't know what others have (brand), and I've been away, working, not at farming, my other job, the one that pays the bills....

I have a ClearSpan Truss Arch (Farmtek), 38 wide x 16 high x 100 long erected on an engineered (laid to grade sand base) with the truss feet resting on 2 x 12 .40 retention planks tied together with 3/8" metal plates. It's silver with a translucent center section, fabric walls on each end (or whatever the covering material is). One end has a 10 wide x 14 high metal roll up door and a man door and the other end is solid with 2 solar powered exhaust fans up high on each side. I have it anchored with screw in augers set in concrete filled post holes, every 8 feet. Has never moved in 14 winters or 14 years worth of wind, rain or hail.

My wife and I erected it and the whole neighboorhood helped put the cover on. That was 15 years ago, not sure I'm up to doing another one.

I see they have about doubled in price but so has everything else so it's still a bargain compared to a pole building and like I said before, it's a non taxable structure here in Michigan.

With ventalation fans, it's not too bad in the summer closed up, bearable. In the winter, it's always warm during the day and cool but not cold at night. I cover the solar panels in the winter so the fans don't run.

Cheap equipment storage and hay storage compared to al pole building and you can build it yourself if you have a front end loader with some height reach and some unpaid help.....(wife).

You can put up the entire frame with a cordless drill-driver (I used my DeWalt 14 volt) and wore it out...., a 100 foot tape, carpenters level and some very basic surveying skills.

The hardest part is erecting the first 2 trusses because you have to stand the first alone (no support) and tie the 2nd truss to the first with supplied metal purlins, but the first truss must be vertically plumb and running parallel to the final truss (so, some basic surveying skills needed).

It's basically follow the supplied instructions and assemble by number, a little repetitious but no worse than making small square bales....

I keep everything in mine including some of my wife's cats.


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## mlappin

First three are sitting on treated 2x8's with ground anchors holding the building down/in place. Last two we've sat on the 2x2x6 cement blocks, almost 4000lbs apiece so they ain't moving.


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## Bgriffin856

deadmoose said:


> Iust say grif- at least they give the kids a chance to rise up. That lil steer will teach the kid lots about working and many other lessons.





somedevildawg said:


> Maybe, hopefully they can break the cycle.....have my doubts tho, home life is a tough obstacle in a lot kids life.....some really have no chance coming out of the womb....


The guy that talked them into by brainwashing them with all the money they will make and not much of anything else.....he tried talking me into like that when his three kids were in 4h well pretty much forced into it and didnt really get much out of it they actually hated it....

Basically if you dont get champion or reserve champion your better off taking it to the salebarn


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## IH 1586

swmnhay said:


> Lady called for some grass hay sounded real fussy.Told her I had some 2nd cutting Orchard/bluegrass.Ex hay,no rain,fine hay.She didn't know what Orchard or bluegrass was she only wanted Brome nothing else.Jeeezz I guess customer is always rite:confused:


Really late posting on this. Had a customer this year want 2nd cutting Alfalfa for his horses. He came to the field to pick up some bales to see if he liked it. It passed his inspection. Couple weeks later came to get another batch, showed him the section of field where previous hay came from and showed him what was in the hay. He looks at the field and says I don't know anything about types of grass...................could sell him anything and he would never know. Its surprising that you can be so picky and know nothing.


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## Coondle

Knowledge would only confuse the issue. :wub:

and;

Never let a lack of knowledge prevent the holding of strong opinions. 

I would rather be thought a fool, than open my mouth and prove I am.

Some horse owners use all of the jargon about selection of good quality hay no matter how out of date the selection criterion may be; but they were told it by someone else, so they know more than me who has been involved in hay for decades.

The customer is always right, no matter how misguided.

Just keep selling them the hay they think they want, because after all the only 100% accurate test if the hay is good is if their horse eats it.


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## hog987

Coondle said:


> Knowledge would only confuse the issue. :wub:
> and;
> Never let a lack of knowledge prevent the holding of strong opinions.
> I would rather be thought a fool, than open my mouth and prove I am.
> Some horse owners use all of the jargon about selection of good quality hay no matter how out of date the selection criterion may be; but they were told it by someone else, so they know more than me who has been involved in hay for decades.
> The customer is always right, no matter how misguided.
> Just keep selling them the hay they think they want, because after all the only 100% accurate test if the hay is good is if their horse eats it.


I have had people get some hay from me. In a real panic. My horse has been with out food for four days. I need a bale now. They get a bale from me phone me up later and tell me my hay is no good because the horses ate it too fast. Geesh cant win either way. But you also cant tell them that if they didnt starve their animals for a better part of a week that maybe they wouldn't eat so much so fast.


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## Coondle

hog987 said:


> I have had people get some hay from me. In a real panic. My horse has been with out food for four days. I need a bale now. They get a bale from me phone me up later and tell me my hay is no good because the horses ate it too fast. Geesh cant win either way. But you also cant tell them that if they didnt starve their animals for a better part of a week that maybe they wouldn't eat so much so fast.


Does that mean (for the intellectual giants that you were obviously dealing with), that if the horse doesn't eat the hay; it is good hay?

The hay will last a long time but even a simple country boy like me knows if the horse doesn't eat, it will not last long though the smell may linger.


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## Vol

Well it must be getting haying season down under as I see Coondle has come out of his hibernation... . Good to hear from you again Coondle....hows your weather?

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

For 3 years, I courted a customer. She is a BIG customer (to me). She called me again this week, introduced herself by name and once again told me she needs 8 tons of round bales per month.
She always calls me around now when I run out of hay and tells me to call her she needs 8 tons of round bales per month until spring. Of course, I'm already pretty much sold out because I can't store enough hay. 
I always call her back and ask her if she would be willing to reserve ~100 bales for her consumption next year, but she never calls me back.
I won't be surprised in the least if she calls me this time next year and we repeat the process again.
DAMN I NEED A BIGGER BARN!!!!!


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## Tim/South

JD3430 said:


> DAMN I NEED A BIGGER BARN!!!!!


*She* needs a bigger barn and let you fill it up for her during the summer.


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## deadmoose

Or store some outside for her. And if she don't like it won't the shroom buyers still tale in January?


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## deadmoose

One thing she is not-loyal. If she has never bought hay from you but keeps calling lets us know she is a pita.


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## Coondle

Hay season for me usually is :

Cutting about the end first week/beginning of second week in October.

Hay is left in the windrow for about a week to cure.

Then baling, bundling and carting to the shed as weather permits. All hay baled is carted into the shed the day it is baled. I put up the whole 10,000 by myself so I am reasonably busy at that time.

Weather in the perfect year is drying off at end September but there are often showers coming through into end October. Some years we have major fronts come through in October, this year one lot of 35mm (bit over 1.25 inches) that did not help the quality of that hay still in the windrow.

I grow around 10,000 bales each year and bale/bundle and cart another 1,000 to 2,000 for a neighbour who helps with that part. Finished the lot by end first week in November after about a week's delay by the rain events.

Not really hibernating, have sold a business and have put my properties on the market with a view to moving to small acreage near Perth. Aim to be about 10 miles from the Perth CBD on hopefully around 5 acres. Close to public transport and medical facilities and all of those things you need in advancing years so that I can grow old disgracefully but in comfort.

Gearing up for the selling/delivering now.

Sales are always slow until about January by which time the small hobby farmers have sold out their 500 or so bales which are cheap because of quality and no storage.

Have rejigged the delivery equipment this year.

Have bought a Mitsubishi truck, 6 tonne payload (13,200lbs) on 17.5 inch wheels a 6.1 metre (20 foot) tray which can carry 10 Bale Bandit bundles.

Also bought and refurbished a 4.5 tonne gross (9,900lb) trailer with a 5 metre tray (16 foot) that can carry a further 8 bundles or alternatively my tractor front end loader to handle the bundles off the truck if the buyer does not have a loader or forklift.

Total legal gross weight is 16,000kg or 35,200 lbs.

When I get around to taking the photos, will post details in the farm truck section.

Weather at the moment is mild by our standards low 30 degrees celsius with temp forecast to rise to mid to high 30's over the week following Christmas. (85* to 102* F), more like a summer.

My horsey people are buying my downgraded hay because of a discount (12.5%) over prime hay at a ratio of about 4:1.

Funny that they trumpet about having the best quality for their horses but there is no doubt that the hip pocket nerve (the one connected to the wallet) dictates what the horse actually gets. Nothing really wrong with the hay only slight weather damage.

Had a delivery of hay to a stable about 400km (250 miles) away, the freight was added. I cautioned the buyer about the freight and she said that the local hay was not up to standard. They had had more rain. The woman rang next morning and said she had the happiest horses in the South-West.

Ahhhh.... horsey people, sometimes you gotta just love 'em  .


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## Vol

Sorry to hear of your impending retirement Coondle. I am hoping to keep trucking along if the Lord is willing....it would be a blessing to drop out in the field and not in a bed in some medical facility....but we do not get to do our choosing.

Regards, Mike


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## Coondle

May sell only 1 property and if so will go on haying for a time yet.

May also keep hay gear and do contracting hay work for a while.

Either way I will have more time for various forums like vintage vehicles and tractors plus Haytalk.


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## somedevildawg

What the hell is wrong with these people, send em some voltage for the holidays......unbelievable!


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## Coondle

The term "Horsey people" now has a new meaning.

In fairness Kreft is in class, or should I say a stall of his own.

He deserves a unique heading as most horsey people would I think not want to be associated.


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## Coondle

hog987 said:


> I have had people get some hay from me. In a real panic. My horse has been with out food for four days. I need a bale now. They get a bale from me phone me up later and tell me my hay is no good because the horses ate it too fast. Geesh cant win either way. But you also cant tell them that if they didnt starve their animals for a better part of a week that maybe they wouldn't eat so much so fast.


Got a call New Years day, girl wanting hay delivered that day. Told her I could and put a premium on the price.

She agreed to the price and when I arrived gave me the cash. Told me her 4 horses had been without hay for three weeks. Yes you read right 3 weeks. and had been feeding hard feed only. No wonder she agreed a premium sure would be expensive to feed only hard feed. Horses were lined up at the fence watching the hay stacked into the shed, though they were focussed and keen to see the hay, they must have been getting enough food because their ribs were not poking out

Withhog987's post fresh in my mind told her not to feed too much because the horses would just gulp it down in a hurry.

Haven't had a call saying hay was no good, so thanks hog for the warning.


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## hog987

Coondle said:


> Got a call New Years day, girl wanting hay delivered that day. Told her I could and put a premium on the price.
> She agreed to the price and when I arrived gave me the cash. Told me her 4 horses had been without hay for three weeks. Yes you read right 3 weeks. and had been feeding hard feed only. No wonder she agreed a premium sure would be expensive to feed only hard feed. Horses were lined up at the fence watching the hay stacked into the shed, though they were focussed and keen to see the hay, they must have been getting enough food because their ribs were not poking out
> Withhog987's post fresh in my mind told her not to feed too much because the horses would just gulp it down in a hurry.
> Haven't had a call saying hay was no good, so thanks hog for the warning.


Wow three weeks. Some people should just not have animals.

Got to remember what Dad said when we were kids. He would ask did we feed the pets today. We would complain do we have to. He would say did you eat today? We said yes. He said the animals need to eat Too. Go feed them.


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## Chessiedog

I guess I have to have ONE person that is a LARGE pain in the rear . Have dealt with them for a few years off an on . Bounced a couple checks and paid up . Then put them on CASH ONLY basis .

The ones that always have problems with something. So year ago they did have a major thing happen . So I started hauling hay to them , still doing the cash thing . But eventually I started letting them pay by check , and of course one came back a few days ago . Now I put them back on a CASH ONLY .

My helper has said he wouldn't sell to them and I concur other then they buy about 600 dollars worth of hay per month . With hay being 90 percent of my farming kinda of hard to turn down that kind of money. Although I don't think selling the hay some where else would be a problem .

I'm thinking right now my plan is to sell to them till May , then tell them to find someone else to buy from . My problem I have a hard time saying NO .


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## swmnhay

Sounds so similar Cheesiedog.

My horsey customer was cut off few yrs ago.They owed me 2400 for a couple yrs then they got it pd off.I started selling them hay again this last fall.They even prepaid a little.I gave him so work unloading semis to work some of it off also.Now the last load that I delivered he was going to deliver me the check the next day because "the wife had the checkbook"well that was 10 days ago.

They do by some lesser quality hay but its priced accordingly.So that works for me but I still want to get pd for it.

They constantly complain about $ well they both smoke like steam engines.So at 3-4 packs a day between them it would more then pay for their hay bill.


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## Chessiedog

Yes and that's what I'm trying to avoid them being into me for that much money . They said something about doing a direct deposit ,but my wife said NO she didn't like that idea. Just keep it simple and cash only .

It's not just hay people . My brother-in-law is a lineman . He has a lot of time in so 99 percent of the time he just by himself with a smaller service truck . I think he spends a lot of time shutting people off in the morning , then going back and turning them on that afternoon .Cost them another 100 or more ,but some do it repeatedly .


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## Coondle

Chessiedog said:


> I guess I have to have ONE person that is a LARGE pain in the rear . Have dealt with them for a few years off an on . Bounced a couple checks and paid up . Then put them on CASH ONLY basis .
> 
> The ones that always have problems with something. So year ago they did have a major thing happen . So I started hauling hay to them , still doing the cash thing . But eventually I started letting them pay by check , and of course one came back a few days ago . Now I put them back on a CASH ONLY .
> 
> My helper has said he wouldn't sell to them and I concur other then they buy about 600 dollars worth of hay per month . With hay being 90 percent of my farming kinda of hard to turn down that kind of money. Although I don't think selling the hay some where else would be a problem .
> 
> I'm thinking right now my plan is to sell to them till May , then tell them to find someone else to buy from . My problem I have a hard time saying NO .


Chessiedog:

You do not have to say "NO".

All you have to do is say:
"YES you can buy hay from me at any time for CASH". 

If they do not like the total circumstances of the arrangement: quality, service price, payment, reliability etc, they will find another supplier and you will have to find another buyer. So things change and you move on. But if you are happy to take their $600 CASH every month keep on doing that. They don't like that then they will have to deal with another supplier.

If they want direct deposit fine, but they have to be a month in advance rather than paying you after delivery. Direct deposit sucks once the buyer is not trustworthy and those people have already established themselves as untrustworthy by bouncing cheques. If the buyer is unknown or untrustworthy then I tell them the deposit has to be in my bank (I can check it is there by phone) before I will deliver.

The cost of a bounced cheque is more than bank charges (to them and to you), there is the cost of you chasing it up and that cost reduces your net profit :wub: .

If they have direct deposit then when they fail to deposit there is no cost to them only to you to chase them up, and they just use someone else so they do not have to face you with their guilt.

They need you more than you need them. I would guess no other supplier will give credit,

chance direct deposit, or bounced cheques. They have worn out their welcome elsewhere thats why they come back to you.

Remember in the fodder business CASH IS KING.


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## Vol

$600 a month customer is a pretty decent customer Chessie.....Just put him on your cash upfront list and if he whines tell him that you have tried to work with him but he continues to bounce checks and that you don't have the patience or time for it. It ain't that big of a deal to go by the bank and get cash if he really wants hay.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Just to add about my horsey guy.2 yrs ago his clutch was slipping in loader tractor.He mentioned it every time I was there.They were going to fix it themselves to save some $.Now 2 yrs later it's still not fixed the only way it moves is at a idle in low gear.It took him 20 mn to unload 4 bales of hay.On the last bale he drove it into a little snow and it wouldn't move,glad it was the last bale anyway.


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## Chessiedog

Yeah swmnhay sounds like the same type . I don't know if some folks just have a lot worse luck then others or if it's drama coupled with self made problems. About every other time I'm there I hear I've got to call the lawyer for this or that . I try to be in and out as quick as possible ! I know we all have our problems but sheeeesh !

I could go on and on but just venting . Just comes with sales of any kind I suppose . I believe most of my costumers are great and would never bounce a check intentionally . Anyone can make a mistake , we have a time or two along with the bank screwing up too .

Yep I put them back on COD . Not sure if I'll cut them off or not ,come spring .


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## Lostin55

I got a call from a horsey gal. She is young and in college. She asked me if she could buy "a few" bales and gee would I deliver them?
I said no. 
Then she asked if I would deliver a ton.
I said no.
I am pretty sure that a college girl enrolled in an ag college could probably find more help than she could possibly need right around the ag barns.


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## BrangusFeeder

I wish I was rich enough to own a horse for a pet.


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## azmike

We started to keep a gas powered compressor at the hay pile as EVERY buyer seemed to have at least one tire near flat once we loaded their trailers!


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## Thorim

Credit = In God I Trust, all others pay cash....


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## CaseIH84

We had lesson well received from horse people. Wanted 2000 bales of "mature" hay. They asked if we would store they hay for the winter because they had no place to put it. We were just getting in the market for hay sales so we agreed. We put up the hay from field we baled at end of June beginning of July. Hay was off of pretty nice field that we got to pretty late because of custom work. So their request work out for us, or so we were thinking.

While they were waiting for that hay they were feeding hay we baled at end of May beginning of June off of another farm because they could not find any. Their horses seem to really like it. After we put up the hay they specifically requested they no longer wanted it. They wanted the hay that we made earlier in the year and we were stuck with a bunch of hay with no customer to buy.

Lesson learned: No more storing hay and no more making hay per specific request like that.


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## FCF

Have stored hay, short term(may be a month) for known customers that paid for it up front, also have taken orders, from known customers, for hay before it is made but not a specific cutting or type. Only type of bale, round or square, and quantity.


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## BrangusFeeder

I have 5 or so horse properties between me and the frontage road on one side.
It all used to be owned by an elderly couple and they did well selling it off that way. These new people all built their homes right on my fenceline to look out at their spread in front.

Each have a few horses out all the time and I see hay delivered and trailers with horses coming and going. I have only seen one house with kids actually ride the horses.

And what fun would it be to ride them around in the oversized front yard anyway? Like never taking your bike out of the drive way.

I can see why y'all like them though- they are pushing up the price of hay for us cattle folk. I wonder though does it pay off for y'all to make this hay that likely costs more to make too and sell to many customers in smaller amounts? Was it easier when someone called in for a semi of rounds when you could get to it and their hand picked it up?


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## somedevildawg

It was easier, of course when I made meatloaf it had 1/2 pound of ground beef and 2 loaves of bread, now that I deal with horsey folk, I can use 1 pound of ground beef and 1 loaf of bread, thereby helping (inadvertently) the cattleman 

And believe me, they ain't pushed up the price for the cattleman, even with record prices on livestock, the cattleman is as cheap as ever......why not, cows will eat anything right? But do they sustain their weight? Cheap hay is usually just that, cheap hay. The very successful cattleman knows the value of quality feed and usually they grow their own, he also know what it takes (in $) to grow a quality product....


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## Chessiedog

Most folks around here that have more then 5 head of cows make their own hay . I'm a long way from Texas an have no idea what rounds or large squares sell for there . But here ,this year if your getting 80 or 90 a ton for beef hay , I'd say your doing good .

Speaking for my self I've never had a customer that was buying rounds for cattle come close to the tonnage that I've sold to a horse customer . Normally they have run short a few rounds . The one large hay guy that I know of in this area that does sell to only cattle ,is selling to a large dairy , doing only balage as far as I know . I'm pretty sure most beef guys are not going to pay the prices he's getting nor need that kind of hay .

My self I don't care if their horse is a pet , kept in their house ,or he is a working horse ,show horse or what ever as long as they are paying .

The same goes for my black angus calves I feed out . I get top dollar for them as well .. Because I know their genetics and where and what they are out of .

Lets see this year horse customers have bought almost 200 tons of hay , cattle customers have bought 12 rounds left over from last year at 20 dollars a piece .


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## somedevildawg

I agree, I can't even begin to pencil out 80-90pt...I need to be around 100-120 to break even at best.....to make a dollar, 160-180 would be nice....


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## Coondle

BrangusFeeder said:


> I wish I was rich enough to own a horse for a pet.


I wish some of those that keep horses were rich enough to own a horse for a pet: If they're then maybe they would be able to pay :lol:


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## BrangusFeeder

I monitor the cow herd condition each week in general and score each cow specifically after calving and at weaning. My cows seem to improve or hold condition best on the Sudan hay. I bought and had a semi delivered at $60 a bale last year. The coastal I made or bought has not done nearly as well for them and that's odd to me because I thought it was supposed to be of much higher quality. They like the coastal more and will go to it first if both are out at the same time.


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## dubltrubl

somedevildawg said:


> I agree, I can't even begin to pencil out 80-90pt...I need to be around 100-120 to break even at best.....to make a dollar, 160-180 would be nice....


Me either. I figure my break even is close to $110/t. Like Chessie says, most cattle guys around here bale their own or do it on shares. What drives the price down in our area is those guys selling what surplus they have and not givin a hoot what they get for it. Of course most of 'em put little or nothing into anyway and are lucky to get 6% CP. Then again, cows will eat anything, right? They're just glad to get a few dollars off of the surplus so they can go buy some protein pellets for the winter.


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## somedevildawg

Baled some for a fella last year, looked real nice, green, CP was 4%.....he was spending $50 an acre on fertilizer......I spend about 120-130 an acre, same exact grass, CP was 11%, my fields outyeild his by 1/3 or better....but, my fields should be in good shape with yearly aeration via hay king, yearly lime applications, yearly pesticide applications, and 200-300 units of K in addition to the copious amount of N, and not taking that late harvest no matter how good it looks.....this all takes $$$$. If you don't spend the $ on Bermuda grass (or any other I suspect) you'll have less yield and poorer quality, everytime.....that's one lesson I've learned over the years and it didn't take long to learn it either.....


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## Arianahay

Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out!


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## swmnhay

Arianahay said:


> Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out!


There are good and bad horse hay customers.The good ones and the Horsey ones.Around here the bad ones outnumber the good ones by 3-1


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## Thorim

Arianahay said:


> Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out!


Can't teach a man or a woman that believes they already know it all.... just saying


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## Tim/South

Arianahay said:


> Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out!


Every check we have had bounce came from a horse customer.

I agree they need educating.


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## Coondle

Old saying:
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

Newer saying:
"You can lead some horse owners to education but you can't make 'em think".

I will say that some owners do want to and will learn. After all it is the exception that proves the rule.

( I mean that in the loose rhetorical sense)


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## BWfarms

It's not only the horse people that can get downright irritating, it's the overall inconsiderate buyers. I picked up an account in 2014 and it was an experience. Most definetly was an experience that had me exasperated at times. I would call and let him know that I was baling and when hay would be ready to pick up in the field. Buyer would respond with either too busy, try to get there, or I'll be there at this time. I have hay at different sites away from my headquarters and I absolutely need to coordinate.

The more irritating part was Buyer would agree on a time to only call an hour or two after the time that he was on his way. I lose precious time because I'm expecting without a courtesy that he would be behind. After some tardiness, I offered to deliver hay and did take a few loads. Was a very minimal fee and I could haul more to the buyer with my rig than his could haul. However, he insists on hauling his own hay. Fine, I'm less for the wear but a few bales were ruined from rain that he didn't pick up and rejected. Literally every other time he forgot his money or only had half the cash. Eventually settled it all up with my helpful reminders.

Before the 2015 hay season started, the Buyer calls me and wants to barter cattle for hay. I did the initial walk through and picked the ones I wanted. However he would never give me a valuation of the livestock. As the season neared I visited him once again with the trailer and we hammered out the details. Only I didn't get the original ones I picked out, no contract was implied so I couldn't do much. I did get a steer he didn't want to part with after I asked to look at more. It was a fair deal, nobody got cheated and I took a 'prepaid' order before I even had my own hay cut. Plus I had a small price increase for my hay for the inconvenience I anticipated.

I start cutting his order and let him know when it would be ready for pickup. Still chronic tardiness, has been every time at least an hour after appointment and several no shows. So the hay that was getting rained on was his loss not mine as it was 'paid for'. A lot of it was one load at a time, I have to drive my tractor 4 miles everytime. Hence the noted built in inconvenience charge.

When I finally get enough cattle to eat all the hay I produce, I will be a sane man again!


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## Vol

BWfarms said:


> It's not only the horse people that can get downright irritating, it's the overall inconsiderate buyers. I picked up an account in 2014 and it was an experience. Most definetly was an experience that had me exasperated at times. I would call and let him know that I was baling and when hay would be ready to pick up in the field. Buyer would respond with either too busy, try to get there, or I'll be there at this time. I have hay at different sites away from my headquarters and I absolutely need to coordinate.
> 
> The more irritating part was Buyer would agree on a time to only call an hour or two after the time that he was on his way. I lose precious time because I'm expecting without a courtesy that he would be behind. After some tardiness, I offered to deliver hay and did take a few loads. Was a very minimal fee and I could haul more to the buyer with my rig than his could haul. However, he insists on hauling his own hay. Fine, I'm less for the wear but a few bales were ruined from rain that he didn't pick up and rejected. Literally every other time he forgot his money or only had half the cash. Eventually settled it all up with my helpful reminders.
> 
> Before the 2015 hay season started, the Buyer calls me and wants to barter cattle for hay. I did the initial walk through and picked the ones I wanted. However he would never give me a valuation of the livestock. As the season neared I visited him once again with the trailer and we hammered out the details. Only I didn't get the original ones I picked out, no contract was implied so I couldn't do much. I did get a steer he didn't want to part with after I asked to look at more. It was a fair deal, nobody got cheated and I took a 'prepaid' order before I even had my own hay cut. Plus I had a small price increase for my hay for the inconvenience I anticipated.
> 
> I start cutting his order and let him know when it would be ready for pickup. Still chronic tardiness, has been every time at least an hour after appointment and several no shows. So the hay that was getting rained on was his loss not mine as it was 'paid for'. A lot of it was one load at a time, I have to drive my tractor 4 miles everytime. Hence the noted built in inconvenience charge.
> 
> When I finally get enough cattle to eat all the hay I produce, I will be a sane man again!


Typical American male....this country is all to crap....this is not unusual at all...everyday occurrence. You have more patience than I do....I would have ended this relationship early on.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Ditto that post ^ life is too short to deal with that kinda crap, I just won't do it......might take a few steers however as payment, but I'll treat it as a cash deal just like BW did......


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## hog987

Its funny. When I sell round bales maybe 10% of people at most are no shows. When I sell small square bales its over 50% of people are no shows, or phone a week later to find out the bales are all sold.


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## Coondle

If a customer tries a few no shows, no more goes.

Only need buyers you can trust to pay and to turn up.

Every expense not essential to your operation gobbles up NET profit. Chews into your bottom line!

I will not even consider livestock or any other barter arrangement as payment except if I initiate the barter because otherwise too liable to get their junk.

Ask you a question.

What happens when a man with experience meets a man with hay?

Answer.

The man with the hay gets some experience ,and the man with the experience gets the hay....

For me, Cash is King 

That way I know exactly what I am getting.

If the first buyer hasn't got cash he will go and get it. And if he can't why I am wasting my time with him.

If one hasn't got cash then the next one will and until then I still have my hay.


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## BWfarms

I know the buyer and his herd, I just didn't know he would be this inconvenient. The way the market is and I needed steers to background, I came out on the winning side. Been fattening the steers before hay season even started so it's like interest in my favor. He is very stingy with steers, this was the first time I could ever get any from him. I did treat it as a cash deal because I was going to buy steers anyway.


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## bluefarmer

[quote name="Arianahay" post="183747" timestamp="1438537140"]Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out![/quote

Ya got any pointers on how to educate "horsey people"!!!


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## swmnhay

Arianahay said:


> Wow. Horse customers are a large percent of your market. What's the fuss about? Granted many don't have a sniff what they are talking about, but that's where we should be educating, not trying to cut them out!


About 1% of my hay goes for horses,that's down from 3% when the other horsey guy filed banckruptcy on me.


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## Thorim

Coondle said:


> If a customer tries a few no shows, no more goes.
> 
> Only need buyers you can trust to pay and to turn up.
> 
> Every expense not essential to your operation gobbles up NET profit. Chews into your bottom line!
> 
> I will not even consider livestock or any other barter arrangement as payment except if I initiate the barter because otherwise too liable to get their junk.
> 
> Ask you a question.
> 
> What happens when a man with experience meets a man with hay?
> 
> Answer.
> 
> The man with the hay gets some experience ,and the man with the experience gets the hay....
> 
> For me, Cash is King
> 
> That way I know exactly what I am getting.
> 
> If the first buyer hasn't got cash he will go and get it. And if he can't why I am wasting my time with him.
> 
> If one hasn't got cash then the next one will and until then I still have my hay.












The U.S. Government says, "In God We Trust." I say, "In God I trust," All others pay cash."


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## VA Haymaker

It's a interesting trade-off in squares for sale by the bale vs the ton. Discretionary spending vs business sense spending, hay color vs actual quality, facts vs fiction. Good reliable customers that you'd do anything for - year in/out vs those you can't wait till they are off your property.

From the get- go, I have thought the person that brings the most money to the table for hay is the horse customer. Demanding, unreasonable - but potentially higher dollars paid.

Maybe it's worth it.

Sometimes I think one should just advertise: HAY - square bales, orchard grass (or whatever), average xx lbs. Here's your price: $x.xx per bale.

Put it out there as "hay". You decide if it's horse hay. You have it tested. It's dusty - you buy it, your problem if you pay for the bale. Here's a bale, cut it open and have a look-see. No warranty expressed or implied. First come, first served. Cash only.

My guess is if you got good hay - horse, cow, goat, rabbit, etc., customers will come back for more.

Of course I'm in a different position as the day job puts the potatoes on my plate. Hay income is just a bit of extra $$$'s.

Interesting thread.

Thanks,
Bill


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## ARD Farm

Bottom line here is.... Horse people are quirky and usually don't know good hay from bad hay... and of course, no credit because the hay turns to horse shitte...... 

I violate that last tennent with my neighbors. They get hay on credit 'cause I know where they live and they know I'm not tightly wrapped and I'm a gun nut.....


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## azmike

Why can't people phone? I still use an older model flip phone and don't text. Buyers will just send two or three word messages like ransom notes. Just telephone me for a brief chat about a deal?!


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## Nitram

azmike said:


> Why can't people phone? I still use an older model flip phone and don't text. Buyers will just send two or three word messages like ransom notes. Just telephone me for a brief chat about a deal?!


Got hay?


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## SwingOak

Horse people can definitely be fussy about their hay! What's more, they are completely ignorant about what is good hay, and what isn't. Fortunately for us folks that make hay for horses, they are willing to pay a lot more than what hay sells for at auction. However this is because they think they know what good hay should cost, regardless of the market price. I would not sell the hay I made 1st cutting for less than $5 per bale, and I'm sure I could sell it for that, even though really nice hay is selling for a little over a buck a bale at auction.


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## Coondle

Nitram said:


> Got hay?


Yes.


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## Tim/South

Nitram said:


> Got hay?


Or

gt ny hy?


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## Nitram

Coondle said:


> Yes.


B ovr n hr


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## deadmoose

Some peoples kids....


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## azmike

Retailing hay to the horse crowd makes me want to buy a lot more cattle....


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## ARD Farm

I must say that not all 'horsey people' are a PITA, I'm married to one. She has her nags (horses) and I have my steers. We started out doing hay because of the horses originally so if it wasn't for a 'horsey person', I'd never be doing what I'm doing now.

In fact, growing up in the inner city, I never knew what 'country life' was about until I married my wife who, btw, bought the farm, I'm just a 'hired hand' here and I sleep with the 'boss', every night and thats not all that bad, even after 31 years....

See, there is a good side to a horsey person.....

Best thing is she deals with the horsey customers better than I do anyway.


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## deadmoose

ARD Farm said:


> I must say that not all 'horsey people' are a PITA, I'm married to one. She has her nags (horses) and I have my steers. We started out doing hay because of the horses originally so if it wasn't for a 'horsey person', I'd never be doing what I'm doing now.
> 
> In fact, growing up in the inner city, I never knew what 'country life' was about until I married my wife who, btw, bought the farm, I'm just a 'hired hand' here and I sleep with the 'boss', every night and thats not all that bad, even after 31 years....
> 
> See, there is a good side to a horsey person.....
> 
> Best thing is she deals with the horsey customers better than I do anyway.


You are missing the distinction here. Horsey people are not responsible horse owners.

Many of them out there. Not the same thing.


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## ARD Farm

I agree with that. In actuality there are a bunch of irresponsible animal owners out there, probably why those irresponsible people like to dump their animals out here in the sticks, in the middle of the night.

We have had some extremely nice dogs and cats dumped in our pine trees along the road. Most stay around, some need veternary care and some we find homes for.

Animals can't talk, if they could, I bet there would be some interesting stories....

No horses yet, but anything is possible.....


----------



## SwingOak

ARD Farm said:


> I agree with that. In actuality there are a bunch of irresponsible animal owners out there, probably why those irresponsible people like to dump their animals out here in the sticks, in the middle of the night.
> 
> We have had some extremely nice dogs and cats dumped in our pine trees along the road. Most stay around, some need veternary care and some we find homes for.
> 
> Animals can't talk, if they could, I bet there would be some interesting stories....
> 
> No horses yet, but anything is possible.....


I heard of someone not too far away from us that woke up one morning and there were two strange horses in her pasture and note left in the barn saying the person was giving her the horses, what the names were, the vaccination and dental history, coggins testing (negative) and when they would need their feet done.

I guess the person knew the woman would take care of them and find good homes for them. What would freak me out would be that someone came on the farm at night and dropped horses off while going completely undetected. That's crazier than dumping horses.


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## Tim/South

I have had people try and donate their horses to me. Not going to happen.

We had one lady who was adamant that she was going to give me her horses so she could drive by and see them in my pasture. She could not understand how I could turn down such a great offer.

We had a friend who went on a trail ride with his wife on a public horse trail. When he got back to his trailer there were two horses loaded inside.

The guard at the entrance now counts how many you bring in and have to leave with the same number.


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## Nitram

During the ban on slaughter out by the Marion resevior there was a ever growing herd running around here...I figured the BLM would eventually start managing them. The horse folks I deal with are either farmers/ranchers or cowboys which are a different breed than those being discussed here.


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## azmike

On a side note: I Like Goat people! The number of goat producers have been growing, they are happy, happy with most any hay.


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## slowzuki

If you could bale brush to sell the goat folks here would be overjoyed.



azmike said:


> On a side note: I Like Goat people! The number of goat producers have been growing, they are happy, happy with most any hay.


----------



## BWfarms

Nitram said:


> During the ban on slaughter out by the Marion resevior there was a ever growing herd running around here...I figured the BLM would eventually start managing them. The horse folks I deal with are either farmers/ranchers or cowboys which are a different breed than those being discussed here.


A working horse is a different breed and typically an owner of such has their wits about them. I like a working horse, they help make money. I never cared much for one that's kept to woo over. It's the pet owners, show people, and hoarders that have unrealistic senses.

I offended a western store saleswoman one time. She asked if I had horse hay for sale, I said I don't deal with horse people. Boy did she ever get huffy she had me know she used to barrel race but now just trail rides and they have some cows (no working horses). She couldn't understand how I would feed horses the same stuff I feed cattle. I said, "Look I don't feed my cows crap hay and I don't have time for a hay burner. It's bad enough putting diesel in a tractor."


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## ARD Farm

SwingOak said:


> I heard of someone not too far away from us that woke up one morning and there were two strange horses in her pasture and note left in the barn saying the person was giving her the horses, what the names were, the vaccination and dental history, coggins testing (negative) and when they would need their feet done.
> 
> I guess the person knew the woman would take care of them and find good homes for them. What would freak me out would be that someone came on the farm at night and dropped horses off while going completely undetected. That's crazier than dumping horses.


The faltering economy has left equine owners in a fix. They can no longer afford the luxury of boarding a horse at a stable or feeding it, or maintenance, so, they 'think' that by giving it to someone, they have justified it in their minds as correct and equitable. It's not.

Thats human nature. Give someone else the responsibility and financial burden because in your own mind, it brings tranquility, just forget about the associated cosrs to the party you stuck the horse with...

Problem is, for most equine owners, a horse is like a boat. A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into. A horse is a hole in a barn you throw money into....

When you can no longer afford it, a boat can be sold in a classified ad, not so much a horse and unlike a boat, the horse keeps consuming dollars, every day, every minute....

Far as I'm concerned, unwanted horses should be rendered for dog food. I know that sounds inhumane but fact is, thats the equitable way to eliminate the problem, rather than shackling someone else with the problem, especially when that problem costs money....


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## deadmoose

I am offended that you compare my boat to a horse. When my boat sits unused, it requires zero upkeep.

Reminds me of the former drunken sailor...

Nothing wrong with keeping horses if one chooses. As long as they take care of them.


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## swmnhay

Oh shit.I have a boat and a horse.

Boat costs me maybe $100 a yr for gas & oil.

Horse costs around $1200 a yr for hay,feed,vet,etc.Oh then theres the shed for it with heated water so a couple hundred more for elec.


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## Teslan

azmike said:


> On a side note: I Like Goat people! The number of goat producers have been growing, they are happy, happy with most any hay.


The goat people I sell to require excellent alfalfa. They are dairy goats so probably much like dairy cows the better feed the better milk.


----------



## Teslan

I've sold hay to a number of cowboys and working horse owners and it is sure nice to deal with them. They don't require perfect hay. In fact would rather not have it. A guy yesterday bought some for feedlot horses. He said these horses will turn up their noses at the fancy green hay and dig into the average bales. Another cowboy said he's been feeding "average" hay for years to his cattle horses and hasn't had a vet bill in 5 years so he figures he must be doing something right.


----------



## swmnhay

Teslan said:


> The goat people I sell to require excellent alfalfa. They are dairy goats so probably much like dairy cows the better feed the better milk.


i have a on and off dairy goat customer.They like the best hay and I will charge more for the best.Then they find a deal and then decide it wasn't such a deal and crawl back whining how bad they get screwed.


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## ARD Farm

I had an Alpacka Lama customer a while back that was particular. I stopped by and had a look-see at those spitting fugly things and wondered why they needed anything but mulch hay......

I got tired of his whining and basically told him to go somewhere else.

People raise the wierdest animals.....

Not too many forage producers around here. This is row crop/produce country and most forage growers around here produce for their own herds and sell nothing.

I get numerous offers for custom work. I tell them all NO. Auntie Zog has a 3 acre patch she wants mowed and bailed. problem is, Uncle Festus dropped a few logs in that patch and they are discretely hidden in the overgrown forage....

I can't play that crap.


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## azmike

I have placed the American Horse on the Endangered Species list: A horseman came by the farm yesterday and explained how hay will kill horses, alfalfa by too much calcium forming balls, bermuda is too soft leading to teeth problems causing eating disorders and so on.... I figure it is only a matter of time till they just starve to death!


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## Coondle

azmike said:


> I have placed the American Horse on the Endangered Species list: A horseman came by the farm yesterday and explained how hay will kill horses, alfalfa by too much calcium forming balls, bermuda is too soft leading to teeth problems causing eating disorders and so on.... I figure it is only a matter of time till they just starve to death!


Should not be an Endangered Species List: that implies there is a chance.

Really a Doomed Species List, there is no chance:

Eat and they will get sick and die; do not eat and I know they will die.


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## Coondle

Have a horse-owner that buys all of her hay from me each year.

She has gone to great lengths to explain to me that I should cut all of my hay between 10.00am and 4.00 pm to have the maximum sugar levels in the hay.

She then tells me she soaks all hay before feeding it to her horses because she does not want them getting too much sugar.

Go figure that one!


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## hog987

azmike said:


> I have placed the American Horse on the Endangered Species list: A horseman came by the farm yesterday and explained how hay will kill horses, alfalfa by too much calcium forming balls, bermuda is too soft leading to teeth problems causing eating disorders and so on.... I figure it is only a matter of time till they just starve to death!


I had a horse guy told me once. You know what my vet just told me. Horses have been around for thousands of years and have not all died off yet because of bad feed.


----------



## barnrope

slowzuki said:


> If you could bale brush to sell the goat folks here would be overjoyed.


I sell a lot of hay to my Amish neighbors for goat milk production. Most of them usually want the best hay I have. It's not uncommon to see loads of high rev alfalfa coming in from Kansas or Colorado.

When they call for horse hay they are wanting 1st cutting grass/alfalfa round bales and don't need to be too special. When it comes to the goats, it's always a higher quality than what they want for horse hay.

When the horsey girls call, you never know what they want when they ask for horse hay. It might be reed canary and willow sticks for one gal or the best pure alfalfa on the farm for another.


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## slowzuki

My sisters two dairy goats will produce a pile of milk on good hay with grain, enough for two milk drinking adults plus cooking baking needs. When they aren't getting grain or the hay isn't so good they have to supplement with store bought milk.

Pita to have to milk them but kids love watching it and they are used to goat milk taste now.


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## Coondle

slowzuki said:


> Pita to have to milk them but kids love watching it and they are used to goat milk taste now.


Your kids might but I bet the goat's kids think you are stealing their breakfast


----------



## Coondle

Making a post elsewhere made me think of a horse owner that was a BTO in the oil drilling arena, has sold his business and retired. He lives several doors from my home place and only a couple of doors "downstream" from my other property.

A citified bloke who moved to this now semi-rural area. A story that resonates around the globe. 

A say horse owner but even I will concede the horses did not make him the way he is, but being the owner of horses is what fits the story into this topic. :huh:

Had a heavy downpour in 2012, up to 4 inches in 15 to 20 minutes. Heavy run off resulted, no that is a bit too understated. Flash floods resulted, which made the place not so flash in another sense.

This guy buys hay from all over the place for his horses, but never bought any from me and although well cashed up, he would not have enough money to do so now. Buying hay from all over the place improves the bio-diversity of the undesirable weed population. 

That property of mine has a small catchment of about 8 acres feeding a little shallow valley. Installed in that small catchment are two interceptor banks. created by a D7 dozer. Interceptor banks are a bit like contour banks but have a hole about 3 feet deep and a bank about 3 feet high on the downhill side giving effectively about 5 feet of height to retain water. The banks follow a contour.

That downpour filled the interceptor banks and overtopped them too, the residue of stream flow travelled down the watercourse ,which as long as I can remember water has a penchant to do.

Water flooded the horse guys sheds and stallion boxes. He screamed blue murder and threatened court action against me. Broadcasting his threats to any who were near and would listen.

I simply told him to go right ahead but that if someone was so stupid as to build their sheds in a natural watercourse then they deserved to be flooded and that my interceptor banks were what had saved his sheds from being uprooted and washed away. Also not so politely informed him that if he wanted to start something then I would fill in the interceptor banks because they were an inconvenience to my operation and only serve to mitigate flooding and damage downstream.

Three and a half years on I am still waiting for the Bailiff to serve the court summons: and yes the big front end loader is still fuelled up, but no longer warmed up, ready to fill in the banks at a moments notice.

Real hothead, he has been convicted of aggravated assault against this neighbour to the north of him. He also threatened the other of his neighbours, a man in his eighties to the west (between his and my interceptor bank property). He backed down when I got to hear and joined in, you gotta be brave to threaten someone in their eighties.


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## deadmoose

Coondle said:


> Making a post elsewhere made me think of a horse owner that was a BTO in the oil drilling arena, has sold his business and retired. He lives several doors from my home place and only a couple of doors "downstream" from my other property.
> A citified bloke who moved to this now semi-rural area. A story that resonates around the globe.
> 
> A say horse owner but even I will concede the horses did not make him the way he is, but being the owner of horses is what fits the story into this topic. :huh:
> 
> Had a heavy downpour in 2012, up to 4 inches in 15 to 20 minutes. Heavy run off resulted, no that is a bit too understated. Flash floods resulted, which made the place not so flash in another sense.
> 
> This guy buys hay from all over the place for his horses, but never bought any from me and although well cashed up, he would not have enough money to do so now. Buying hay from all over the place improves the bio-diversity of the undesirable weed population.
> 
> That property of mine has a small catchment of about 8 acres feeding a little shallow valley. Installed in that small catchment are two interceptor banks. created by a D7 dozer. Interceptor banks are a bit like contour banks but have a hole about 3 feet deep and a bank about 3 feet high on the downhill side giving effectively about 5 feet of height to retain water. The banks follow a contour.
> 
> That downpour filled the interceptor banks and overtopped them too, the residue of stream flow travelled down the watercourse ,which as long as I can remember water has a penchant to do.
> Water flooded the horse guys sheds and stallion boxes. He screamed blue murder and threatened court action against me. Broadcasting his threats to any who were near and would listen.
> 
> I simply told him to go right ahead but that if someone was so stupid as to build their sheds in a natural watercourse then they deserved to be flooded and that my interceptor banks were what had saved his sheds from being uprooted and washed away. Also not so politely informed him that if he wanted to start something then I would fill in the interceptor banks because they were an inconvenience to my operation and only serve to mitigate flooding and damage downstream.
> 
> Three and a half years on I am still waiting for the Bailiff to serve the court summons: and yes the big front end loader is still fuelled up, but no longer warmed up, ready to fill in the banks at a moments notice.
> 
> Real hothead, he has been convicted of aggravated assault against this neighbour to the north of him. He also threatened the other of his neighbours, a man in his eighties to the west (between his and my interceptor bank property). He backed down when I got to hear and joined in, you gotta be brave to threaten someone in their eighties.


Last sentence. Replace Brave with Stupid.


----------



## swmnhay

Get a call last night at 6:30.horseys are out of hay can they get some that night yet.NO,I'm cutting hay 1/2 hr from home and won't get home until dark.I've told them a dozen times I want a 2 day notice.


----------



## hog987

swmnhay said:


> Get a call last night at 6:30.horseys are out of hay can they get some that night yet.NO,I'm cutting hay 1/2 hr from home and won't get home until dark.I've told them a dozen times I want a 2 day notice.


But when your feeding hay there is just no warning that the hay is gone till its gone. Its not like they can plan ahead. 
Now only if they would show up on time when they say they are coming.


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## Trillium Farm

hog987 said:


> I had a horse guy told me once. You know what my vet just told me. Horses have been around for thousands of years and have not all died off yet because of bad feed.


As long as they have a choice. Keep giving them moldy hay and they will develop heaves.

Horses don't need the most nourishing hay, but they must have it absolutely mold and dust free


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## SwingOak

A little dust isn't so bad, you just have to wet it down so they don't cough or get respiratory problems but very dusty hay or moldy hay goes in the muck heap.


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## rjmoses

swmnhay said:


> Get a call last night at 6:30.horseys are out of hay can they get some that night yet.NO,I'm cutting hay 1/2 hr from home and won't get home until dark.I've told them a dozen times I want a 2 day notice.


I always say "yes", but I charge more.

My rates are:

---$x if I do myself.

---$5x if you watch.

---$10x if you help.

---$100x if I watch you do it.

---$1000x if I help you do it.

Most people are content to just let me do it myself.

Ralph


----------



## Trillium Farm

RJMoses, you must have gone to the same school as my mechanic! :lol:


----------



## rjmoses

Trillium Farm said:


> RJMoses, you must have gone to the same school as my mechanic! :lol:


Maybe!! Did he go to UHK?

Ralph


----------



## Trillium Farm

rjmoses said:


> Maybe!! Did he go to UHK?
> 
> Ralph


Yes indeed that's his alma mater!


----------



## JayTN

If all those picky horsey people were like one of my neighbors, we would all be able to handle them better. He has to mow the bitterweed out of his pasture multiple times a year just so the horses can find the tiny shoots of grass that I think may be hiding under all the little yellow flowers. He has some other neighbors properties rolled to feed his horses that I wouldn't even consider cow hay. I have never seen any fertilizer or lime spread on these fields, so the majority of it is sagegrass. I have seen him cut it one day and have it baled the next. Yeah, that's gonna be high quality stuff! He stores it under the trees behind his barn, again, a big no no. The hay is net wrapped and I have never seen him take the wrap off whether it's in a hay ring or not. Most of the time it's not in a ring. Have you ever watched hungry horses trying to get hay out of a bale that's half eaten and collapsed with net still on it? And he has to feed hay year round. I actually feel sorry for the horses that are on his place, but not enough to offer to help him out!


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## JD3430

I installed solar powered driveway gates for a guy back in May. He has 6-8 horses. Has a farm boy working at his place all day. So one day he comes out in a Kubota RTV towing a small trailer with what looked like a big leaf vacuum on it, but there were no leaves on the ground. So off he goes into the field jumps off takes big vacuum hose and starts vacuuming up piles of horse crap. 
I asked him what the heck are you doing? He says the owner has him vacuum up the horse crap because he hates the gnats that are attracted to the horse crap. I asked why? He said because the gnats get into the horses eyes and he hates that, so he pays a guy to go around the paddocks and vacuum it up!!! 
Is that normal?


----------



## Thorim

JD3430 said:


> I installed solar powered driveway gates for a guy back in May. He has 6-8 horses. Has a farm boy working at his place all day. So one day he comes out in a Kubota RTV towing a small trailer with what looked like a big leaf vacuum on it, but there were no leaves on the ground. So off he goes into the field jumps off takes big vacuum hose and starts vacuuming up piles of horse crap.
> I asked him what the heck are you doing? He says the owner has him vacuum up the horse crap because he hates the gnats that are attracted to the horse crap. I asked why? He said because the gnats get into the horses eyes and he hates that, so he pays a guy to go around the paddocks and vacuum it up!!!
> Is that normal?


Let me start this out with saying I am one of the least normal people I know and that's not normal by any stretch or standard lol


----------



## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> I installed solar powered driveway gates for a guy back in May. He has 6-8 horses. Has a farm boy working at his place all day. So one day he comes out in a Kubota RTV towing a small trailer with what looked like a big leaf vacuum on it, but there were no leaves on the ground. So off he goes into the field jumps off takes big vacuum hose and starts vacuuming up piles of horse crap.
> I asked him what the heck are you doing? He says the owner has him vacuum up the horse crap because he hates the gnats that are attracted to the horse crap. I asked why? He said because the gnats get into the horses eyes and he hates that, so he pays a guy to go around the paddocks and vacuum it up!!!
> Is that normal?


No not normal, not commonly found amongst "horse people"only found amongst "Show horse people"


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## SwingOak

I mow and drag the horse pastures, which I believe is fairly normal. The vacuum sounds like an expensive way to do a simple job. Then again, if it was a machine that was just pulled behind a tractor that sounds like a pretty good idea. If you have to get off the tractor to suck up each pile that seems a little crazy.


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## Trillium Farm

Yes it's a pull-behind unit just like a giant vacuum you have to aim the hose to the pile and woosh it's gone (more or less). You are right to mow and harrow the pasture, this is better for the sward and it grows thicker and healthier.


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## swmnhay

The horsey saga continues.Get a call last night that they need hay right away.The horses were out and neighbors called the sheriff.They "just" ran out of hay,lol.The deputy said they had to hAve hay by this morning or they are going to get a ticket,again.

I was leaving the yard yesterday when they called about 4 and put on 400 miles before I got home at 11 and I didn't really want to deliver hay at 7 AM.

If they would of called at noon the trailer was hooked up and I was moveing hay from fields and wouldn't of been a big issue to do it then.


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## glasswrongsize

Letting the horses go hungry, reminds me of my neighbor Bubba.

Bubba and some of the neighbors were sitting around discussing the state of the Union, and decided to declare war. Bubba contacted Obama and set up a meeting to discuss the imminent war. Obama asked Bubba about his armament etc. Bubba stated that he had 8 or 10 friends with rifles and slingshots, a jon-boat or two, some tractors that they could beef-up with some used tin from an old barn, a kite or two (for air superiority),etc... Obama told him that he had RPGs, tanks, fighter jets, bombers, and would use about a million troops to handle Bubba's uprising. Bubba and Obama each decided to weigh the prospect and get back together the next day. The next day, Obama called Bubba. Bubba stated that he had discussed the matter with his friends, and decided not to go to war at this time. Obama said "Thought it over and decided there was no way you ******** could compete with my superior army?" Bubba replied "Naw, we talked it over and knew there was no way in hell we could feed that many prisoners!"

Why do people (usually horse people) think they can place something into captivity and not provide for its care. I don't like horses, but I abhor people that put a fence around critters and don't feed them.
73, Mark


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## swmnhay

Well I got the nags fed.The son comes out of the house to have a cigarette as I am unchaining the skid,then he goes back in the house.No one else comes around and no $$.get home and get a call from the horsey gal,can I wait until Friday to get pd,pay day?

The ground was licked clean of hay as always,they were totally out.

I just dump a bale over the fence when I get there and unload the rest.


----------



## lazyh

OK, So I'm one of those horsey people. I'm not that picky bc we raise our own hay too and I know how hard it is to get it grown, cut, baled and put in the barn. I've purchased hay and had good loads and bad loads brought in. We purchased from a guy in Ilinois this week. He texted pictures of alfalfa that looked really good. He said that 100 of the bales would be from last year but even the pictures of those looked fairly good. He went on and on about how all of his alfalfa was "round up ready" and would be $5/bale. What we got was another story. We received the outside row of cutting on 1/3 of the truck. There were too many bales that were orchard grass. My horses will eat it and be fine, but we can't sell it for the price needed to bring it down here. There were also bales full of trash, so I know the row that we got was on the outside by the road. He also told us that this was the last of his hay. Funny thing is, the trucker told us that there were 2 more trucks lined up behind him to load. The guy also didn't have anyone there to load his hay so the trucker loaded the hay and the seller stuck us with a $200 fee for having to load the truck. He never said anything about us having to pay to load the truck and I've never had to pay a trucker to load a truck before. Is this a standard practice now?? I'm getting ready to write the check to the guy for the hay and mail it, but I'm thinking about deducting the load charge on his end since he never said anything about it in the beginning. Edit to add that the bales were all supposed to be 50lb or better bales. 90% of the load were 35lb bales. The string on most of those bales were lose enough that the bales folded in half when the guys were throwing them off of the truck.

I know, Welcome to Farming!, but I hate it when people are this dishonest!!


----------



## Vol

lazyh said:


> We purchased from a guy in Ilinois this week. He texted pictures of alfalfa that looked really good. What we got was another story.
> 
> I know, Welcome to Farming!, but I hate it when people are this dishonest!!


The "guys" first name wasn't barack was it?

Regards, Mike


----------



## deadmoose

Vol said:


> The "guys" first name wasn't barack was it?
> 
> Regards, Mike


That one doesn't even bother to deliver any product. He just shakes you down for your change (which he defines as all your money).


----------



## glasswrongsize

> That one doesn't even bother to deliver any product. He just shakes you down for your change (which he defines as all your money).


I hope this winter is even colder than last winter for those chicago thieves. I heard that it got SO cold in chicago last year... (from the audience) How cold was it?
It was SOOO cold in chicago last year that some of the politicians had their hands in their OWN pockets.

73, Mark


----------



## Hugh

swmnhay said:


> The horsey saga continues.Get a call last night that they need hay right away.The horses were out and neighbors called the sheriff.They "just" ran out of hay,lol.The deputy said they had to hAve hay by this morning or they are going to get a ticket,again.


That was a real LOL. The common trait of these horse people is Delusional Thinking. They have some kind of "Big Pie in the Sky" mind that is far removed from the real world.

For a few days I was around a thoroughbred training track near San Diego about 15 years ago and kept trying to figure out what was wrong with those people. A lot of women are like this just before their weddings. Many of them believe they will look like Princess Diana when in fact they are just out of a trailer park and 250 lbs. I've made up my mind to be known around this area as, "Cash and Carry Hugh."


----------



## somedevildawg

lazyh said:


> OK, So I'm one of those horsey people. I'm not that picky bc we raise our own hay too and I know how hard it is to get it grown, cut, baled and put in the barn. I've purchased hay and had good loads and bad loads brought in. We purchased from a guy in Ilinois this week. He texted pictures of alfalfa that looked really good. He said that 100 of the bales would be from last year but even the pictures of those looked fairly good. He went on and on about how all of his alfalfa was "round up ready" and would be $5/bale. What we got was another story. We received the outside row of cutting on 1/3 of the truck. There were too many bales that were orchard grass. My horses will eat it and be fine, but we can't sell it for the price needed to bring it down here. There were also bales full of trash, so I know the row that we got was on the outside by the road. He also told us that this was the last of his hay. Funny thing is, the trucker told us that there were 2 more trucks lined up behind him to load. The guy also didn't have anyone there to load his hay so the trucker loaded the hay and the seller stuck us with a $200 fee for having to load the truck. He never said anything about us having to pay to load the truck and I've never had to pay a trucker to load a truck before. Is this a standard practice now?? I'm getting ready to write the check to the guy for the hay and mail it, but I'm thinking about deducting the load charge on his end since he never said anything about it in the beginning. Edit to add that the bales were all supposed to be 50lb or better bales. 90% of the load were 35lb bales. The string on most of those bales were lose enough that the bales folded in half when the guys were throwing them off of the truck.
> I know, Welcome to Farming!, but I hate it when people are this dishonest!!


So you've never done business with this guy and he billed it to you? He may not be honest, but i would say he is definitely "trusting" ..... More so than I. I woulda loaded it, woulda shipped it, but I woulda been paid before my truck ever got loaded......


----------



## haygrl59

lazyh said:


> OK, So I'm one of those horsey people. We purchased from a guy in Ilinois this week. He texted pictures of alfalfa that looked really good. He said that 100 of the bales would be from last year but even the pictures of those looked fairly good. He went on and on about how all of his alfalfa was "round up ready" and would be $5/bale. What we got was another story. We received the outside row of cutting on 1/3 of the truck. There were too many bales that were orchard grass. There were also bales full of trash, so I know the row that we got was on the outside by the road. The guy also didn't have anyone there to load his hay so the trucker loaded the hay and the seller stuck us with a $200 fee for having to load the truck. He never said anything about us having to pay to load the truck and I've never had to pay a trucker to load a truck before. Is this a standard practice now?? I'm getting ready to write the check to the guy for the hay and mail it, but I'm thinking about deducting the load charge on his end since he never said anything about it in the beginning. Edit to add that the bales were all supposed to be 50lb or better bales. 90% of the load were 35lb bales. The string on most of those bales were lose enough that the bales folded in half when the guys were throwing them off of the truck.
> 
> I know, Welcome to Farming!, but I hate it when people are this dishonest!!


"...I hate it when people are this dishonest!!" I hope this doesn't sour you in future purchases of hay, especially from IL. I believe most hay sellers are honest folks. This seller sounds similar to a guy we know around here who bales almost everywhere--especially around roadways. I try to represent our hay as honest as possible and we check every 21-bale hay bundle as its loaded into the truck. I even give it my personal "smell test". We will set aside anything doesn't smell or look to our standards. Our goal isn't to just sell the hay one time to a customer but we like to have repeat customers and that does take a little extra customer service. Is our hay perfect, no. We may have an occasional occurrence where and inside bale might not be up to par once its delivered and we try our best to work things out with the customer. Hay isn't a perfect product but no one should be subjected to a 'bait and switch' deal! It does sound very much like he misrepresented the hay and I am sorry that you had to deal with this. I hope you find better hay and better sellers in the future.

And for the record, I'm much, much farther south than Chicago and I don't claim the IL boy in the white house. Its hard to stand out and handle your business honestly and fairly in a very dishonest and scandalous state!


----------



## NebTrac

I guess I feel blessed. I usually only square bale some mixed meadow hay around the third week in June and then my 4th/5th cutting of Alf/OG and straight Alfalfa. Mostly goes for horses. My arrangement is they come pick them up on their own trailers.

I help load, but they come. These are locals and I just give them a call when the hay is baled. I also have my own cattle, so what doesn't get picked up I take home and feed during the winter. I've been doing this for about 10 years this way.

Troy


----------



## BWfarms

I hit the holy grail of the perfect horse boarder, they sought me out through channels. I said you know I just do "cow hay" right? She said, "Yep that's why we've come to you." They just want good dry grass with minimal weeds, no thistle, and some broomstraw is okay. Contract for roughly 60 4x5 bales a year and they will pay my price. Awesome!!!


----------



## azmike

A 10 on the crazy meter! A lady came for some hay from me. She has 12 draft horses, thats right 12! She moved them to AZ from MI. She needs to wait for the old mans social security check to buy hay. How could any sane person live in poverty to feed a bunch of horses??


----------



## haygrl59

azmike said:


> A 10 on the crazy meter! A lady came for some hay from me. She has 12 draft horses, thats right 12! She moved them to AZ from MI. She needs to wait for the old mans social security check to buy hay. How could any sane person live in poverty to feed a bunch of horses??


I've come to the conclusion that some horse people treat their horses better than their own family of human beings. They will scrimp and sacrifice to feed the horse and still the poor horse might be short on hay. Its a big commitment to own a horse these days and some folks will do whatever it takes to hang onto that dream. That's why we get money up front before shipping hay or loading hay. We don't hold kindly to people that are like Wimpy in the Popeye cartoon--"I will gladly pay you on Tuesday..."


----------



## hillside hay

How's this for horsey people? I was told by a lady today that my hay was better quality than the Standlee compressed bales. I just chuckled and took the compliment. No way is Northeast bromegrass and clover going to ever compare to the worst Western alfalfa.


----------



## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> I installed solar powered driveway gates for a guy back in May. He has 6-8 horses. Has a farm boy working at his place all day. So one day he comes out in a Kubota RTV towing a small trailer with what looked like a big leaf vacuum on it, but there were no leaves on the ground. So off he goes into the field jumps off takes big vacuum hose and starts vacuuming up piles of horse crap.
> I asked him what the heck are you doing? He says the owner has him vacuum up the horse crap because he hates the gnats that are attracted to the horse crap. I asked why? He said because the gnats get into the horses eyes and he hates that, so he pays a guy to go around the paddocks and vacuum it up!!!
> Is that normal?


WTH......Y'all have gnats?


----------



## swmnhay

Horsey gal calls at 3:46 on saturday wondering when she can get hay.I told her after dinner on Sunday.Well it is 12:54 and she is womdering when i was going to be there.She was worried I forgot she said.More like the horses are out and walking the fence and about to get out,again!!!!


----------



## hog987

swmnhay said:


> Horsey gal calls at 3:46 on saturday wondering when she can get hay.I told her after dinner on Sunday.Well it is 12:54 and she is womdering when i was going to be there.She was worried I forgot she said.More like the horses are out and walking the fence and about to get out,again!!!!


Ya its funny how hungry animals will break out to try and find food. Who would have thought that?


----------



## VA Haymaker

Lady calls about my Timothy hay. Gives me a speech about how they are "thoroughbreds". Sounds like some fine animals, well cared for. Caring/loving horse owner. Give her my price, which ain't the highest around - probably why I got the call in the first place....

The escape route - not sure my husband would want to pay that much for hay.....

Use to be a dog food commercial back in the 70's lampooning cheap - low cost dog food. The closing line was, "dog food is dog food, feed 'em what's on sale."

LOL - love my "thoroughbred" horse - feed 'em what's on sale!


----------



## swmnhay

I have a horsey customer that quit buying for awhile.She was sleeping with someone else with hay.Now she is buying from me again,with cash.And he is paying child support.


----------



## dirtball08

Coondle said:


> Hay season for me usually is :
> Cutting about the end first week/beginning of second week in October.
> Hay is left in the windrow for about a week to cure.
> Then baling, bundling and carting to the shed as weather permits. All hay baled is carted into the shed the day it is baled. I put up the whole 10,000 by myself so I am reasonably busy at that time.
> 
> Weather in the perfect year is drying off at end September but there are often showers coming through into end October. Some years we have major fronts come through in October, this year one lot of 35mm (bit over 1.25 inches) that did not help the quality of that hay still in the windrow.
> 
> I grow around 10,000 bales each year and bale/bundle and cart another 1,000 to 2,000 for a neighbour who helps with that part. Finished the lot by end first week in November after about a week's delay by the rain events.
> 
> Not really hibernating, have sold a business and have put my properties on the market with a view to moving to small acreage near Perth. Aim to be about 10 miles from the Perth CBD on hopefully around 5 acres. Close to public transport and medical facilities and all of those things you need in advancing years so that I can grow old disgracefully but in comfort.
> 
> Gearing up for the selling/delivering now.
> Sales are always slow until about January by which time the small hobby farmers have sold out their 500 or so bales which are cheap because of quality and no storage.
> 
> Have rejigged the delivery equipment this year.
> Have bought a Mitsubishi truck, 6 tonne payload (13,200lbs) on 17.5 inch wheels a 6.1 metre (20 foot) tray which can carry 10 Bale Bandit bundles.
> Also bought and refurbished a 4.5 tonne gross (9,900lb) trailer with a 5 metre tray (16 foot) that can carry a further 8 bundles or alternatively my tractor front end loader to handle the bundles off the truck if the buyer does not have a loader or forklift.
> Total legal gross weight is 16,000kg or 35,200 lbs.
> When I get around to taking the photos, will post details in the farm truck section.
> 
> Weather at the moment is mild by our standards low 30 degrees celsius with temp forecast to rise to mid to high 30's over the week following Christmas. (85* to 102* F), more like a summer.
> 
> My horsey people are buying my downgraded hay because of a discount (12.5%) over prime hay at a ratio of about 4:1.
> Funny that they trumpet about having the best quality for their horses but there is no doubt that the hip pocket nerve (the one connected to the wallet) dictates what the horse actually gets. Nothing really wrong with the hay only slight weather damage.
> 
> Had a delivery of hay to a stable about 400km (250 miles) away, the freight was added. I cautioned the buyer about the freight and she said that the local hay was not up to standard. They had had more rain. The woman rang next morning and said she had the happiest horses in the South-West.
> Ahhhh.... horsey people, sometimes you gotta just love 'em  .


My wife and I spent 3 1/2 weeks traveling around Perth when her best friend got married over there. Wasn't long enough. Need to go back again!!!


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## Coondle

dirtball08 said:


> My wife and I spent 3 1/2 weeks traveling around Perth when her best friend got married over there. Wasn't long enough. Need to go back again!!!


Everywhere I have travelled there was too much to do and not enough time. My wife and I visited Eastern Canada and adjoining Northern USA some years ago. The scenery and peoples were fantastic.

The furthest west we got in Canada was Thunder Bay and Halifax in the East.

The great thing for us was our Aussie accent. As soon as folks heard that they could not help us enough even the French speakers that we were told were notorious for not helping those who would /could not speak French. Even more amazing was the help we got with Customs/ Immigration in the US who held up a long line of passengers while our forms were completed and corrected while others were given the back of the queue and no help. Marvellous.

We only had 6 weeks and spent time in Toronto with our daughter who was living and working there along with her man. The long summer evenings were ideal for getting out and seeing the areas around Toronto.

We also spent time in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin with friends of ours (she went to school with my wife in the 1960's).

Had a hire car, I think you call them "Rentals", a small Dodge, really a Mitsubishi . We covered over 18,000km in the 6 weeks, it only had 700 km on the clock when we collected it, flat rate and unlimited km's, a bargain for us.

Would love to return and get to see more of NA.

Notwithstanding your handle, I would love to meet up with you if you get back this way.


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## dirtball08

Sounds like a plan!!!!!!


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## mlappin

Anybody notice how this thread just won't die?


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## Vol

mlappin said:


> Anybody notice how this thread just won't die?


Years ago...

Regards, Mike


----------



## toddhandy

I would love to show you some horsey Gal comments on my Facebook Page on some of my hay adds. Better not, If it gets out I wont have any Horsey costumers left.


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## RuttedField

Whining started with Adam and Eve's kids, you can read it where God judges Cain for killing Able and he starts whining how the sentence is unbearable. 

I just think the problem isn't limited to horse people. They have the same condition that plagues farming and ranching everywhere, and that is EVERYTHING has to be a science now in farming.

Sheep farming has been around for 10,000 years YET suddenly we need manure sampling, feed samples and $15,000 150 page cnmp's that never get read again, and yet little wooly white ruminants eat green grass and make red meat. Yep, hasn't changed a bit!

But when I was a kid and dairy farmed, you were poor, scum-of-the-earth if you were a farmer, and suddenly now it has changed. A person with 2 goats and an apple tree considers themselves a "farm", and with it comes this inferiority complex where they think they need to be all scientific regarding the 2 laying hens they have. A lot of my sheep cohorts are absolutely shocked when they find out high protein hay is actually bad for a sheep's wool quality as it makes it brittle. That thought came from the dairy farmers who get paid a premium for their high protein milk. The real problem is, people are so puffed up about talking about high protein diet that they overheard from a dairy farmer at the feed store, that they never check to see if it is actually detrimental to their livestock of choice.


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## swmnhay

Got a call last night.We are out of hay can you bring some ASAP.Can you wait to get pd?Can you bring your skidloader along also because a hyd hose blew on the loader when we fed the last bale?

A bale lasts them about a week so they had a. Week to fix the hyd hose!!


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## RuttedField

BTW: The bible has the ORIGINAL CNMP in it (Comprehensive Nutrient Management Plan that is required for large livestock operations).

It is where God tells the Israelites in the old testament to let their fields lay fallow on the 7th year. How is that a CNMP? Well, do the math. A ruminant poos 85% of what it eats back out its hiney. That is a net loss of 15% in nutrients per year (consumed versus pooed back out). After 6 years the field is completely depleted of nutrients,(15%*6=90%), so by letting the land rest, grow into an weeds that eventually dies and goes back into the ground as organic matter, nutrients are replenished.)

The Isrealites lacked manure and soil testing as we have today, and we can replenish what is lost without having to have fallow ground, so I am not in fear that God will strike me dead for utilizing my crop grounds beyond 6 years, but it was the original CNMP 9000 years ago!


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## Teslan

swmnhay said:


> Got a call last night.We are out of hay can you bring some ASAP.Can you wait to get pd?Can you bring your skidloader along also because a hyd hose blew on the loader when we fed the last bale?
> 
> A bale lasts them about a week so they had a. Week to fix the hyd hose!!


Typical. Saw a person on a facebook page asking for one large square bale to be delivered within 4 hours to an out of the way place because she was totally out of hay. I don't think anyone replied because no one delivers one bale of hay. Poor horse. Even my neighbors wait until the day their bale runs out to call me to ask for another. Typically when I don't have time.


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## Teslan

mlappin said:


> Anybody notice how this thread just won't die?


It can't die because as long as there are horses and people there will be horsey people. And they don't die out.


----------



## Coondle

RuttedField said:


> I just think the problem isn't limited to horse people. They have the same condition that plagues farming and ranching everywhere, and that is EVERYTHING has to be a science now in farming.


Ain't that the truth.

Heading into retirement I have moved to a 5 acre lifestyle block about 20 miles East of the Perth CBD in West OZ.

I want to keep a few sheep on the property to make it feel like a rural home and to keep the weeds down to mitigate wildfire issues.Our local government requires a sheep management plan before I can keep sheep. My first memory of sheep on the farm goes back more than 60 years, yet I have to write out a plan for some jumped up clerk who has probably never worked, kept, or raised sheep. I would laugh if it was not so stupid.

Now you have me going, I have to also prepare a fire management plan for my property. My father and our neighbours had farms in a dry sclerophyll forest and practised controlled burning of differing areas from year to year. Now the scientists give the practice a name, "mosaic burning" and though the locals had undertaken the practice for over a hundred years the scientists suddenly developed mosaic burning after a wildfire out of Government managed (or should I say unmanaged) land destroyed a town south-east of Perth in 1961. Fire management has been part of my life for over 60 years that I can remember yet I have to write it out for an office jockey that would not know what a wildfire is. Makes my blood boil .

Perhaps we need a new thread on government stupidity. I know government does not have a monopoly on stupidity but they appear have a mortgage at least. Now that thread would have a never ending life of its own.


----------



## Coondle

Teslan said:


> Typical. Saw a person on a facebook page asking for one large square bale to be delivered within 4 hours to an out of the way place because she was totally out of hay. I don't think anyone replied because no one delivers one bale of hay. Poor horse. Even my neighbors wait until the day their bale runs out to call me to ask for another. Typically when I don't have time.


They did not have the money to pay you, so definitely no money to fix the hose. After all they will go hungry themselves so they can feed their horse.


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## swmnhay

Coondle said:


> They did not have the money to pay you, so definitely no money to fix the hose. After all they will go hungry themselves so they can feed their horse.


But they have money for cigarettes,tattos,beer,etc

satlelight TV,cell phones,etc,etc

I doubt they go hungry themselves.Get a disability check and what ever other benifit they can qualify for.


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## Coondle

swmnhay said:


> But they have money for cigarettes,tattos,beer,etc
> 
> satlelight TV,cell phones,etc,etc
> 
> I doubt they go hungry themselves.Get a disability check and what ever other benifit they can qualify for.


Yes, of course everyone has money for essentials.

A loader hose is a luxury, particularly when you can bring your skidsteer to do their work and at your cost. They are not stupid all your fuel and they do not even have to drive to get the hay unloaded.

Cigarettes, beer, satellite TV, cell phones are absolutely essential, no-one can live without those items. As for tattoos: they are a huge benefit in saving clothing costs. Ever noticed how a person tattoo can wear just a singlet on a cold day when everyone else is rugged up. A tattoo is warmer than a polar fleece jumper and they do not wear out.


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## RuttedField

I hear ya on the Government Stupidity.

I had a "wetland expert" come out to asses my farm as it is illegal to destroy wetlands for farming. Oh I can cut every tree in the wetland and even bulldoze the stumps, but the moment I say it is for row crop production, I am a wetland destructionist!

So I mention from the soil report that shows "an unpenetrable subsurface 12 inches down" and I call it ledge rock. The guy says no its hard pan and that it was compressed by glaciers millions of years ago. Really, even an idiot like me knows it takes 600 years to make 1 inch of topsoil so at that rate its looking as if the "hardpan" could not have come from glaciers...do the math and its 9000 years, about the time of Noah's flood! Now that would compress some soil! he rolls his eyes at me as I say this.

Then in another spot where I suggested dozing a stream crossing to ledge he said, "oh I bet there is 15 feet to ledge there". Nope, more like 15 mm. I struggle at pulling wood because my dozers grousers are 3 inches deep and they can't bite onto ledge. In fact I am hitting ledge all over the place on the 30 acres I am clearing.

The long and short of it is this, its not a forested wetland at all, its water laying atop ledge rock. But what to do. Just play by the rules or just hope they don't pay much attention and do what I always wanted to all along. The last I knew we all at food and not trees.

Buy hey who is the dumb one? I believe in a creator and they believe that the rock my forefathers moved in my fields in 1746 when they arrived...and still are rocks some 280 years later...will somehow morph into living, breathing beings if we just wait a few billion more years...


----------



## RuttedField

Not a horse person, but a fellow sheep farmer down the road who does NOT take care of her sheep. She doesn't pick up her dead sheep, does not shear them, refuses to dock their tails and all are interbred because she never culls sisters and brothers. Silly girl has 40 sheep on 3/4 of an acre and their manure runs down into a major brook...but I am the one that needs a CNMP?

Anyway she was the dog catcher in town and loved to cite people. We had a dairy farm and could feed her starving sheep with one truckload of feed, but it is hard to do that when she is giving you fines for not having registered dogs. She could have got me for it, but nope, she does so for all three dogs I had...$425 fine instead!

2 years go buy and she sees I am putting up nice expensive fencing while the state police are patrolling her house for 3 days straight because her sheep are in the road because she doesn't pay her hay contractors and one by one they stop selling to her, selling being a VERY loose term. Her favorite term was, "Oh I have money for you", which she did, in very small allotments where her hay consumption greatly exceeded her pay, but by the time the person selling the hay caught on, they were screwed.

So anyway she tells the police that I am going to help her put up fence, thinking those spare rolls I have will go around her 3/4 of an acre just fine. Guys I am normally not mean, but my dogs never got out and bothered anyone (basset hounds) and she pinched me at a time when every dollar counted. I was not giving up my fence for her. But I had 5 acres I was not using so I said, "I'll tell you what, just use my field and the police won't bother you and your sheep can graze all summer and be happy."

I was the biggest jerk after that because she told everyone I wanted to steal her sheep! Like I really wanted her interbred diseased sheep!


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## JD3430

I just got a call a month ago from a woman who said she wanted 60 4x5's for her "horse rescue" operation. She wanted them delivered not too far away, maybe 25 mile round trip. 
BEFORE SHE SAW THE HAY, she started jawing me down on the price. I asked her to come see the hay, then we can come to an agreement. She asked me terms. I said cash on delivery for each load, or check, but check must clear first. Then she asks me about using a credit card. I said I'll tell you what, you give me my asking price and I'll get a credit card reader for my phone and take your credit card. 6 annoying phone calls later, she stopped calling. 
I swear this and all the posts you guys have made and I'm like....I think I like selling mushroom grade hay for $105/ton better and better each day!! No fussing, no inside storage and no horse Retards!!!


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## toddhandy

Every year I put out an add for people to take orders on small square bales. Surprise its 95% horsey gals that want to pick off he field to save money. My best one is a Gal wanted 400 bales and was going to come pick them off the field "to save money" , i fingered that was not gonna happen. The day I was going to bale i called and no answer, i left a message. 5 days later the hay is off the field and in the stack, she calls me and asks if i can deliver the hay and get paid in the fall. I said not a chance, She said her hot water heater was leaking in the house. I said you need to call a plumber ,I'm the Hay guy.....Click

I have 5-6 Good Horsey customers and 300 wanna-bees


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## RuttedField

I could never figure out why all those Horsey people just did not get into having donkeys. Those things live forever (50 years) and don't require good hay to thrive. If nothing else, and these horsey girls have physical characteristics that are horrendous; at least they can say they have a nice "a$$".

(If you are offended by the latter joke, I feel sorry for you).


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## r82230

swmnhay said:


> Got a call last night.We are out of hay can you bring some ASAP.Can you wait to get pd?Can you bring your skidloader along also because a hyd hose blew on the loader when we fed the last bale?
> 
> A bale lasts them about a week so they had a. Week to fix the hyd hose!!


Swmn,

They are going to fix the hose and pay you, they are just waiting for the money tree in their back yard to bare some fruit again (the guy fix'n the hose, probably wants cash, unlike you, where you have so much cash, you can 'wait' for it. Those dang rich farmers anyhow.) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Larry


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## j_luken

Not all 'horsey' people are like this. I do not ever remember paying later for my hay, I had to go without on some other things in order to feed my horses. Unfortunately I lost my last mare a little over a year ago, will get back into them later, but it is still to fresh, my Dad had given me that horse. But there are good and bad apples in every thing. Not saying that in 'corporations' it wouldn't be set up like that, say net 30, but that would be a corporate agricultural world.


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## VA Haymaker

j_luken said:


> Not saying that in 'corporations' it wouldn't be set up like that, say net 30, but that would be a corporate agricultural world.


We offer Net 30 and even Net 45 on our hay. Once it's loaded, you've got 30 to 45 seconds to pay (cash) or we're unloading.....


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## j_luken

leeave96 said:


> We offer Net 30 and even Net 45 on our hay. Once it's loaded, you've got 30 to 45 seconds to pay (cash) or we're unloading.....


Lol, don't blame you, didn't say i agree with the corporate world, but got educated in it. Feedlots, etc may operate that way. There are ways around it to get paid earlier if that is who you can sell to in bulk.


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## aawhite

When I was a grain buyer for Cargill, we did offer N30 terms to the feedlots, but their was a difference. They were required to submit 3 years financials for evaluation before the credit line was approved.

Tell those horsey people to give you a guaranteed letter of credit and they can pick up all the hay they want!!


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## j_luken

aawhite said:


> When I was a grain buyer for Cargill, we did offer N30 terms to the feedlots, but their was a difference. They were required to submit 3 years financials for evaluation before the credit line was approved.
> 
> Tell those horsey people to give you a guaranteed letter of credit and they can pick up all the hay they want!!


That is true, lol, a credit check does come first for net terms. When I worked AR, we did that with our customers. When I later worked AP, I didn't work that part anymore because we sent them to Dun and Bradstreet and they would make their decision from there if they wanted to be our vendor or not.


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## slowzuki

So I read a little bit and apparently glaciers do produce a super compacted glacial till under them in some areas that goes up to 10 feet deep. We don't have it around our place in NB, and I've never seen it hit in any excavation work I've seen anywhere in NB, we have regular clay till and ledge sticking out where it was scraped clean by the glaciers. We get to look at hundreds of miles of deep rock cuts on our highways to get half flat roads and I've never seen a section of it there either. Its either rock or stuff that collapses when wet.

I'm with you, its likely ledge.



RuttedField said:


> So I mention from the soil report that shows "an unpenetrable subsurface 12 inches down" and I call it ledge rock. The guy says no its hard pan and that it was compressed by glaciers millions of years ago.


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## swmnhay

j_luken said:


> Not all 'horsey' people are like this. I do not ever remember paying later for my hay, I had to go without on some other things in order to feed my horses. Unfortunately I lost my last mare a little over a year ago, will get back into them later, but it is still to fresh, my Dad had given me that horse. But there are good and bad apples in every thing. Not saying that in 'corporations' it wouldn't be set up like that, say net 30, but that would be a corporate agricultural world.


not all people with horses are horsey people.Some horse people are very reputable and pay their bills on time and take care of their horses.

then you got horsey people with every excuse in the book for late paying,horses are sometimes neglected,walking threw a pasture littered with junk and wire and getting cut up,etc.

By the way I do own a horse,and it's well taken care of.And I'm the one that started this thread 7 yrs ago?but the stories keep coming about the horsey people.I think this is one of the longest ongoing threads on Haytalk.


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## mlappin

I'll let people pay later after they've paid on time for a considerable amount of time, I won't ever let em get into me for more than a few bales at a time though since most just come and get a round bale or two at a time.

I also have some guys a few towns over I'll deliver all they want and tell em to settle up when I'm done hauling, makes for less paperwork, but these guys were coming to the hay sales with their daddies 25 years ago and were still being carried around the parking lot.

Somebody new calls that I've never heard of or seen before? Bring cash, period. Unless of course they are beef or dairy guys, have yet to ever get a bad check from them.


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## RuttedField

Not a hay deal, but I had a woman one time call me up begging for lambs to fill her order for the month. I had a few so I said come on up but that it was not worth me going to her for. So she did, then (as always with her) she would pay me in 30 days.

Fine, whatever...

45 days go by and I am wondering what is up so I call her...crickets.

3 days go by and I get the check with a not...a nasty note saying how hard it was for her to make any money on the sheep SHE BEGGED FOR. I think she was going through a divorce though and soon got out of sheep farming altogether. It was a good thing, she was trying to raise sheep on blueberry barrens.


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## RuttedField

I am pretty loose with who I give credit too.

I got a gravel pit here and let people load their own trucks. I go down into the sand part of my pit a few years back and notice 100's of yards just gone! Who took it all I have no idea, but hey its no big deal.

3 months later I get a check in the mail from the dairy farmer who had taken it. They use sand to spread down on the floors to keep the cows from slipping. No big deal, no worries, dairy farmers are forever late, but always pay.


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## aawhite

We had feedlot customers routinely carry $500,000 in corn purchases on the books. That's a number that's can make you a bit nervous.


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## mlappin

RuttedField said:


> I am pretty loose with who I give credit too.
> 
> I got a gravel pit here and let people load their own trucks. I go down into the sand part of my pit a few years back and notice 100's of yards just gone! Who took it all I have no idea, but hey its no big deal.
> 
> 3 months later I get a check in the mail from the dairy farmer who had taken it. They use sand to spread down on the floors to keep the cows from slipping. No big deal, no worries, dairy farmers are forever late, but always pay.


Yah, we used to use lime on the concrete to prevent slips, killing two birds with one stone.


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## swmnhay

Horse People


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## Tx Jim

swmnhay

The video you posted is a very TRUE depiction of a large % of horse owners.

Jim


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## somedevildawg

That feller is funny......and accurate


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## swmnhay




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## BWfarms

swmnhay said:


> Horse People


We should vote him into the White House, he understands economics.


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## deadmoose

swmnhay said:


> Horse People


I like that guy!


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## Lostin55

I just got a response to an ad. The ad was very detailed, including price and bale size. .... selling straw by the bale. ... what does the guy ask? You guessed it. Price and bale size! 
I replied that the ad include the price. Then I gave him the size in cubic inches, cubic feet, and barrels, just in case. ...


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## haygrl59

Lostin55 said:


> I just got a response to an ad. The ad was very detailed, including price and bale size. .... selling straw by the bale. ... what does the guy ask? You guessed it. Price and bale size!
> I replied that the ad include the price. Then I gave him the size in cubic inches, cubic feet, and barrels, just in case. ...


Sometimes those replies are from scammers. I have very detailed ads too and when I reply back to those silly questions, that is when I will get responses that seem to be red flags because they are similar to those Nigerian scam emails. Otherwise, you just have an empty-headed horse person, which is very plausible!


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## hillside hay

I do believe I met a Unicorn! I had several small deliveries in one area yesterday. Weather was not NN I've in there area. Rain wet snow sleet wind roads starting to flood. I get to my last stop and the lady comes out and says just set it under that tree right there. Lol the look on my face must have said it all! The ground was saturated and the rain snow mix was starting to really pick up. All that work and planning to not get so much as a hint of must in the hay to hear " just set it over there and I'll get to it later" I couldn't believe what I was hearing! She says " Don't worry I'm not one of those crazy horsey ladies". I did convince her to put it in the horse trailer. Set my mind at ease. Lol words I never thought I'd hear. So, that my unicorn take.


----------



## Teslan

hillside hay said:


> I do believe I met a Unicorn! I had several small deliveries in one area yesterday. Weather was not NN I've in there area. Rain wet snow sleet wind roads starting to flood. I get to my last stop and the lady comes out and says just set it under that tree right there. Lol the look on my face must have said it all! The ground was saturated and the rain snow mix was starting to really pick up. All that work and planning to not get so much as a hint of must in the hay to hear " just set it over there and I'll get to it later" I couldn't believe what I was hearing! She says " Don't worry I'm not one of those crazy horsey ladies". I did convince her to put it in the horse trailer. Set my mind at ease. Lol words I never thought I'd hear. So, that my unicorn take.


Sometimes crazy goes the other way also maybe?


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## 2ndWindfarm

A gal that I sell hay to (her checks are GOOD) stopped at the house the other day and said she likes my hay...but - there's always a BUT. She's got several horses and 5, miniature donkeys. Says the horses will eat every scrap of the hay but the donkeys won't eat the seed heads. She has to clean up after them.

I figured she was concerned that the Timothy hay was too mature and lost some nutritional value as a result. So, I tried to explain that I try to cut the hay when the grass is around 50% headed out but not ready to set seed.

She thought I dismissed her observation about the headed out grass and doubled-down on the "donkeys won't eat 'em" assertion. Man... She buys $1,500-2,000 from me every year. So, I just let her ramble on and let any "quality" explanation just set on the table.

Told my wife later... We might not be sellin' hay to that gal anymore.


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## r82230

2ndWindfarm said:


> She thought I dismissed her observation about the headed out grass and doubled-down on the "donkeys won't eat 'em" assertion.


My Dad use to say "There is an a$$ in every crowd", comes to mind.  Sorry, it just popped in my head, when I seen the donkey won't eat all the hay (my other thought was they weren't hungry enough).

Larry


----------



## haygrl59

> She thought I dismissed her observation about the headed out grass and doubled-down on the "donkeys won't eat 'em" assertion.


We have been selling our grass mix hay to people who have donkeys and they just keep coming back for more. Due to the weather, some of the grasses were a little more mature than we would have liked when we cut it. I know there are a few seed heads in the hay. I suspect it is probably more of a problem with your customer than the donkeys.

We had a customer send us a box of what looked to be twigs and then we came to the conclusion that it was mature clover stems. The customer never contacted us about this before, just mailed a big box of the stems. There was a nasty note inside as well. She also went to our Facebook page and blasted us about "sticks" being in every bale of the hay. I tried to counter it with a logical explanation and asked her to contact us personally to work something out. Never heard anything from them again. Horsey people's memories are short when you go out of your way in customer service. We had a sale going on with the hay but it had expired when she requested the hay. We gave her the sale price and then even delivered it on short notice and as a rain storm was moving in. (She had called and said her truck was being repaired and could we "pleeeease" deliver it.) Her husband handled every bale as it was moved off the trailer and never said anything about 'sticks in the hay'.

People will take you to the edge every time if they can do it.

We have a few former customers that no money in the world would have us do business with them again.

Sometimes one's sanity trumps a sale.


----------



## BWfarms

haygrl59 said:


> People will take you to the edge every time if they can do it.
> We have a few former customers that no money in the world would have us do business with them again.
> Sometimes one's sanity trumps a sale.


I have told people I wipe my ass with $100 bills.


----------



## Coondle

haygrl59 said:


> We have a few former customers that no money in the world would have us do business with them again.


Me too.

My old age and naturally cranky disposition means more people have the potential to join the "NO DEAL"group, but then I am able to sell all the hay I grow without having to listen to endless stupid rubbish. If they have a point no problems money back or replace hay.

One of the latest is insisting on an "ARGT" test. Annual ryegrass toxicity.

There is a bacterial infection that some rye grasses can get transferred by nematodes. The bacteria produce a deadly toxin. One farm I know of lost some beef cattle to ARGT. The expert opinion was that probably only 200 square feet or so of pasture was infected on a 2200 acre farm.

If I tested one bale, I could say my hay is ARGT tested. But out of thousands of bales there may be only one or two infected if I had the condition on my farm. What use is that. I have no cause to think I have ARGT so do not test.

If I were a buyer I would be more concerned that a seller had tested for ARGT because that would signal to me the seller had cause for concern.

Needless to say I did not get that sale, which comes as a relief.


----------



## Coondle

BWfarms said:


> I have told people I wipe my ass with $100 bills.


I stopped that practice because Australia has "plastic" (polymer) notes which are not only ineffective for the task, but cut worse than a paper cut  and that does focus one's mind.


----------



## BWfarms

Coondle said:


> I stopped that practice because Australia has "plastic" (polymer) notes which are not only ineffective for the task, but cut worse than a paper cut  and that does focus one's mind.


I'm grateful that our bank notes are made of the finest linens and cotton lol.


----------



## swmnhay

Got a phone call last night.

"Can you bring hay ASAP?The horses are out"

Well not until tommorow because my skid loader is not home to load.

I drove by their place earlier in the day and seen they were out of hay completely and figured they would be calling.The horses were in yet then.But they wait for them to get out before they call!


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## ozarkian

swmnhay said:


> Got a phone call last night.
> 
> "Can you bring hay ASAP?The horses are out"
> 
> Well not until tommorow because my skid loader is not home to load.
> 
> I drove by their place earlier in the day and seen they were out of hay completely and figured they would be calling.The horses were in yet then.But they wait for them to get out before they call!


My sympathy vote goes to the horses.


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## r82230

swmnhay said:


> I drove by their place earlier in the day and seen they were out of hay completely and figured they would be calling.The horses were in yet then.But they wait for them to get out before they call!


Maybe easier to get them back in with some good 'bait'. 

Larry


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## ozarkian

haygrl59 said:


> We have been selling our grass mix hay to people who have donkeys and they just keep coming back for more. Due to the weather, some of the grasses were a little more mature than we would have liked when we cut it. I know there are a few seed heads in the hay. I suspect it is probably more of a problem with your customer than the donkeys.
> 
> We had a customer send us a box of what looked to be twigs and then we came to the conclusion that it was mature clover stems. The customer never contacted us about this before, just mailed a big box of the stems. There was a nasty note inside as well. She also went to our Facebook page and blasted us about "sticks" being in every bale of the hay. I tried to counter it with a logical explanation and asked her to contact us personally to work something out. Never heard anything from them again. Horsey people's memories are short when you go out of your way in customer service. We had a sale going on with the hay but it had expired when she requested the hay. We gave her the sale price and then even delivered it on short notice and as a rain storm was moving in. (She had called and said her truck was being repaired and could we "pleeeease" deliver it.) Her husband handled every bale as it was moved off the trailer and never said anything about 'sticks in the hay'.
> 
> People will take you to the edge every time if they can do it.
> 
> We have a few former customers that no money in the world would have us do business with them again.
> 
> Sometimes one's sanity trumps a sale.


The two most important lessons that I have learned:

*1. When you tell a problem customer that they can not afford your *

*hay, they will beg you for it.*

*2. There are some customers I just can't afford to have.*


----------



## toddhandy

I get such a kick out of all the wanted adds out there for HORSE QUALITY HAY, Wanted horse quality hay no mold, dust, weeds, ditch hay, slew hay and the list goes on and on. So i was thinking the other day what would horse quality pasture for rent have to look like.

I"m guessing it would look something like this.

Looking for horse quality pasture for 2 horses ASAP. No barbed wire, old machinery, steep hills or manure piles, the flies get to bad. The pasture i am looking for will include rolling hills with some Ponderosa pines. If the fence was a double smooth wire that would be excellent. The well must have a Richie drinker with a reverse osmosis system, no slews lakes or stock ponds they just attract flies, The barn needs to be a very sound structure so my horses can get out of the weather when need be. Oh i forgot to mention no weeds of any kind just organic pasture grass. I only need the pasture for the summer time, I will pay you in full when I take the horses are out at the end of summer.


----------



## Coondle

Todd, you are right but forgot one word on the end to be in keeping with the majority experience.

"I will pay you in full when I take the horses out at the end of summer".....MAYBE.

Here is an example for my suite of customers today:

Received an email from a gal on Sunday morning as I am about to head out to a vintage car day. Her enquiry was in response to an advertisement by me showing a huge stack of hay bales in a shed.

"Do you have many bales available pls."

Well in my opinion it is no business of hers how many I have, but my hopes rise that she wants thousands or at least several hundred, so my email reply was:

"Yes, I have bales available. How many do you require?"

Get home from the vintage car day and eagerly open my emails to look for the huge order, here is her reply:

"4 or 5 but I won't be able to get up there until next Saturday?"

That gal knows how to deflate a hay seller's hopes.


----------



## Vol

I have been posed the same exact question more than once when I used to advertise.....and the end result was always just like yours.

Regards, Mike


----------



## hillside hay

Lately found a couple great ones. Fingers crossed I'll hang on to them.


----------



## VA Haymaker

Got an email - "Can you lower the price since you are so far from where I live?"

????????????????????????????????


----------



## Teslan

Coondle said:


> Todd, you are right but forgot one word on the end to be in keeping with the majority experience.
> 
> "I will pay you in full when I take the horses out at the end of summer".....MAYBE.
> 
> Here is an example for my suite of customers today:
> 
> Received an email from a gal on Sunday morning as I am about to head out to a vintage car day. Her enquiry was in response to an advertisement by me showing a huge stack of hay bales in a shed.
> 
> "Do you have many bales available pls."
> 
> Well in my opinion it is no business of hers how many I have, but my hopes rise that she wants thousands or at least several hundred, so my email reply was:
> 
> "Yes, I have bales available. How many do you require?"
> 
> Get home from the vintage car day and eagerly open my emails to look for the huge order, here is her reply:
> 
> "4 or 5 but I won't be able to get up there until next Saturday?"
> 
> That gal knows how to deflate a hay seller's hopes.


I guess you have to think like the average hay buyer. They think because they might buy 5-6 bales it is a lot. I've had them ask for a quantity discount on 10 bales. They always think it's weird when I say quantity discounts start at over 100 bales and then that is a maybe. Had a guy call the other night at 8:45 pm. I was done for the day. He NEEDED one bale. He was 30 minutes away. He got mad when I declined to sell him one bale.


----------



## BWfarms

leeave96 said:


> Got an email - "Can you lower the price since you are so far from where I live?"


I'd custom make some lightweight bales to make the fuel bill easier for them to swallow.


----------



## Teslan

Is it my imagination or do Horsey people have a hard time understanding directions? Most horsey people use GPS to get to my place to buy hay. The problem is some GPS put my house in a different place. So I always tell the people. Just west of a county road intersection. So go WEST! So where have 4 out of 6 hay buyers the last couple of days go? They go east and end up at my cousin's place. Most roads here only go east/west, or north/south. Which of course they think is my place because there is hay for sale there. So they text me that they are here and waiting for me by the brown barns. Mine have blue doors and are white, which usually I tell them to look for also. Sometimes I give exact driving instructions from where they are coming from using left and right instead of east and west. But yet I still usually I get a call that they are lost. The thing is here you can see for miles. So I guess they look one way and see a hay barn and think that's it! Nevermind that there are 4-5 farms in this area with hay barns that look similar.


----------



## Vol

Teslan said:


> Is it my imagination or do Horsey people have a hard time understanding directions? Most horsey people use GPS to get to my place to buy hay. The problem is some GPS put my house in a different place. So I always tell the people. Just west of a county road intersection. So go WEST! So where have 4 out of 6 hay buyers the last couple of days go? They go east and end up at my cousin's place. Most roads here only go east/west, or north/south. Which of course they think is my place because there is hay for sale there. So they text me that they are here and waiting for me by the brown barns. Mine have blue doors and are white, which usually I tell them to look for also. Sometimes I give exact driving instructions from where they are coming from using left and right instead of east and west. But yet I still usually I get a call that they are lost. The thing is here you can see for miles. So I guess they look one way and see a hay barn and think that's it! Nevermind that there are 4-5 farms in this area with hay barns that look similar.


Maybe put your last name in large bold lettering on your barn.

Regards, Mike


----------



## CowboyRam

Teslan said:


> Is it my imagination or do Horsey people have a hard time understanding directions? Most horsey people use GPS to get to my place to buy hay. The problem is some GPS put my house in a different place. So I always tell the people. Just west of a county road intersection. So go WEST! So where have 4 out of 6 hay buyers the last couple of days go? They go east and end up at my cousin's place. Most roads here only go east/west, or north/south. Which of course they think is my place because there is hay for sale there. So they text me that they are here and waiting for me by the brown barns. Mine have blue doors and are white, which usually I tell them to look for also. Sometimes I give exact driving instructions from where they are coming from using left and right instead of east and west. But yet I still usually I get a call that they are lost. The thing is here you can see for miles. So I guess they look one way and see a hay barn and think that's it! Nevermind that there are 4-5 farms in this area with hay barns that look similar.


The problem is they are most likely like my ex wife, and have no sense of direction. You could not tell her to go east because she had no idea what direction was east.


----------



## Teslan

CowboyRam said:


> The problem is they are most likely like my ex wife, and have no sense of direction. You could not tell her to go east because she had no idea what direction was east.


that might be the case. Though we have a pretty big landmark here that always lies to the west. Maybe you do also. Called mountains. I guess I should tell them to drive toward the mountains.


----------



## swmnhay

Not only horsey people,had a trucker picking up a pallet call and he was at intersection of # 13 & # 16.Ok go south on 13 ,4 miles and take 14 east/left 2.25 miles on south side of rd.Can't miss it brown shed.Calls 20 min later 7 miles east of here.He never drove by so IDK how he got there.


----------



## slowzuki

I've heard that one so many times lol. Please tell me how you driving far reduces my costs of production? hahaha.



leeave96 said:


> Got an email - "Can you lower the price since you are so far from where I live?"


----------



## BWfarms

swmnhay said:


> Not only horsey people,had a trucker picking up a pallet call and he was at intersection of # 13 & # 16.Ok go south on 13 ,4 miles and take 14 east/left 2.25 miles on south side of rd.Can't miss it brown shed.Calls 20 min later 7 miles east of here.He never drove by so IDK how he got there.


Cy, I even know people that have gotten lost out there regardless of the N/S E/W except countyline S curve lol. If that mile section didn't have a maintained road every mile, their count would be off. So do you have a road at the end of each mile? Either that or the trucker doesn't have all his digits.


----------



## RockmartGA

Teslan said:


> Most horsey people use GPS to get to my place to buy hay. The problem is some GPS put my house in a different place.


It's getting better, but GPS has historically been notorious for leading folks to incorrect locations in rural areas. Providing the Longitude / Latitude coordinates alleviates that problem.


----------



## mlappin

Teslan said:


> Is it my imagination or do Horsey people have a hard time understanding directions? Most horsey people use GPS to get to my place to buy hay. The problem is some GPS put my house in a different place.


Google street view puts our address over a quarter mile down the road at the lane to the rest of our property. Who knows how many dipshits headed back that little lane and never did figure out they weren't at the right place even after they got to the end of it with no buildings in site anywhere.

I usually tell em if your coming from US31 go half a mile past the park entrance and we are on the left, If your coming from North Liberty/SR23 we are half a mile before the park entrance on the right.

Most people really have no sense of direction whatsoever, I can be in a new place in the dead of night and just know which way north is.


----------



## swmnhay

BWfarms said:


> Cy, I even know people that have gotten lost out there regardless of the N/S E/W except countyline S curve lol. If that mile section didn't have a maintained road every mile, their count would be off. So do you have a road at the end of each mile? Either that or the trucker doesn't have all his digits.


Yea we are pretty much square every mile.A county tar road every 3-5 miles and the rest are township gravel roads.

There are a few diagonal roads that usually go directly from town to town,State Hwys usually.Pretty sure that what he got on when I specificaly said go south on 13 he went SE on 25


----------



## CowboyRam

mlappin said:


> Google street view puts our address over a quarter mile down the road at the lane to the rest of our property. Who knows how many dipshits headed back that little lane and never did figure out they weren't at the right place even after they got to the end of it with no buildings in site anywhere.


 Google used to have us on the south side of Riverton, we live north of town. I sent them a email a few years ago and they finally got it fixed.


----------



## Vol

I saw the Google earth photo mapping vehicle in my hometown last week. It had all kinds of camera apparatus things attached to a sky blue Toyota Prius and a communication satellite apparatus on the roof. And a design on the sides proudly stating Google Earth. I tried to get a pic of it, but I was in 3 lanes of traffic and I was in the hammer lane and the Prius was in the right hand lane and the middle lane traffic kept blocking. h34r:

Regards, Mike


----------



## broadriverhay

Why do horse people think they should get a discount when we don't get a discount when buying fuel, fertilizer, nitrogen, lime, tractors, balers, rakes, tedders, Mocos or anything else.


----------



## Vol

broadriverhay said:


> Why do horse people think they should get a discount when we don't get a discount when buying fuel, fertilizer, nitrogen, lime, tractors, balers, rakes, tedders, Mocos or anything else.


Most of them are liberals?

Regards, Mike


----------



## CowboyRam

broadriverhay said:


> Why do horse people think they should get a discount when we don't get a discount when buying fuel, fertilizer, nitrogen, lime, tractors, balers, rakes, tedders, Mocos or anything else.


I think some of it is do to the fact that they can't really afford their hay burners. I find it amazing how many have horses that they never ride.


----------



## swmnhay

broadriverhay said:


> Why do horse people think they should get a discount when we don't get a discount when buying fuel, fertilizer, nitrogen, lime, tractors, balers, rakes, tedders, Mocos or anything else.


There are a lot of discounts farming but most involve prepaying 6-9 months before you even need the product.Of corse you run the risk of the place going broke and not getting your product.And it's a game with some co's esp seed corn/ beans.I got 10% discount for pre paying 6 months early and needed 12 more bags in season and got 25% off on that.

When I started farming you charged everything and pd when the bill come 30 days later.Now they want cash and to do that offer discounts like .10 a gallon on fuel or propane.Things changed in the 80's as far as credit goes.


----------



## mlappin

CowboyRam said:


> I think some of it is do to the fact that they can't really afford their hay burners. I find it amazing how many have horses that they never ride.


Yep, I call em yard ornaments.


----------



## broadriverhay

I'm small time I get no discounts. I only bale about 8000 bales a year.


----------



## Lostin55

CowboyRam said:


> I think some of it is do to the fact that they can't really afford their hay burners. I find it amazing how many have horses that they never ride.


Reminds me of the folks who buy a diesel pickup as a grocery getter, equipment that is never used, savings accounts that are empty, dogs that live their entire life on a chain, and several other things.
I should add those that have a new boat, four wheeler, truck, and live in a 1967 rented mobile home.
To each their own I suppose. We are all free to choose.


----------



## VA Haymaker

????????????????????

From Craigslist - took a pic of it so if/when the ad comes down, it could live on....


----------



## Tim/South

leeave96 said:


> From Craigslist - took a pic of it so if/when the ad comes down, it could live on....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg


Reminds me of the feller feeding turnip greens to his hunting dogs. His friend tried it and said his dogs would not eat them.

Man replied, "Mine didn't either for the first week".


----------



## toddhandy

Been a great year to sell hay in northern ND this year due to the drought in most of the state. Here is the most recent horsey person.


----------



## skyrydr2

I have a few horsey customers that I actually like, and many more I do not. The only other guys locally selling hay are either outrageous exspensive or making junk..we have 2 types of hay.. construction hay or good feed hay.I actually go out of my way to make "special low sugar low protein" hay for 1 customer for her 30 year old horse! It aint easy but she is a good customer and its a small amount. This though with all this rain its proving to be a challenge to actually make a poor bale. They are all high quality 
feed. 
I think my last field will have some on it.. i sure hope so, I hate to disappoint.. well most of the time anyways LOL


----------



## haygrl59

Our small squares are average 45-50 lbs. just because they are easier to handle with the horsey folks. We use a Bale Baron to pick up the small squares so its a different situation than toddhandy's. We had to bale a few round bales this season because the hay didn't meet our standards for small squares. We have grass mix and alfalfa. I received a text yesterday from someone asking a lot of 'picky' questions, like what cutting the alfalfa big rounds are, how much alfalfa is in the bales, is there any mold, has the hay been picked over and yada, yada, yada. I really thought it was a horsey person and then they argued that the price of the bale was too low! We are selling them at $30/bale just to move them out quickly. Then they finally admit that the hay is for beef cattle and it will probably be okay as long as it isn't very stemmy. Geesh! The hay really is still nice and leafy--we just put it up last weekend. I hope I don't have to add a cow people thread on here! Maybe there's a full moon coming on and all the nuts are coming out!


----------



## RockyHill

haygrl59 said:


> I hope I don't have to add a cow people thread on here! Maybe there's a full moon coming on and all the nuts are coming out!


sure hope it isn't the solar eclipse doing it 

Shelia


----------



## FarmerCline

Dealt with my first crazy horse customer today. I have had mostly all good experiences selling to horse customers but this lady was crazy. Apparently she has a psychic evaluation done on her horse and the horse said it only liked one kind of hay.....orchard grass.....like I said crazy. Took over an hour to load 27 small squares in the back of a pickup truck.....she kept talking and going on and on and jumping from one topic to another......I never could figure out exactly what all she was saying......started to give me a headache listening to it. She really liked my hay though and said she wanted to start buying all of her hay from me.....I then told her all of the orchard grass I had left was sold.


----------



## ozarkian

FarmerCline said:


> Dealt with my first crazy horse customer today. I have had mostly all good experiences selling to horse customers it this lady was crazy. Apparently she has a psychic evaluation done on her horse and the horse said it only liked one kind of hay.....orchard grass.....like I said crazy. Took over an hour to load 27 small squares in the back of a pickup truck.....she kept talking and going on and on and jumping from one topic to another......I never could figure out exactly what all she was saying......started to give me a headache listening to it. She really liked my hay though and said she wanted to start buying all of her hay from me.....I then told her all of the orchard grass I had left was sold.


The Hay Gods smiled favorable on you today. Those kind of customers scare me!


----------



## VA Haymaker

FarmerCline said:


> Dealt with my first crazy horse customer today. I have had mostly all good experiences selling to horse customers but this lady was crazy. Apparently she has a psychic evaluation done on her horse and the horse said it only liked one kind of hay.....orchard grass.....like I said crazy. Took over an hour to load 27 small squares in the back of a pickup truck.....she kept talking and going on and on and jumping from one topic to another......I never could figure out exactly what all she was saying......started to give me a headache listening to it. She really liked my hay though and said she wanted to start buying all of her hay from me.....I then told her all of the orchard grass I had left was sold.


Ha ha - most of my horse customers are good to deal with. A few - crazy and I just don't do business with them.

While I'm thinking about it - could you post a topic in the machinery section on how you got along with the Hesston 1840 this year? Maybe a few pics too...????

A review on the preservative you're using and the applicator would be a great read too if you could. Any dust or mold issues?

Sorry to get off topic...

Thanks!
Bill


----------



## FarmerCline

ozarkian said:


> The Hay Gods smiled favorable on you today. Those kind of customers scare me!


 Yeah, I have her number marked as do not answer. Luckily on the phone before she came I mentioned I had a limited amount of orchard so I had an easy way out to say the rest was sold. Good thing I didn't say I actually had a couple hundred bales.....which is a limited amount to me.


----------



## FarmerCline

leeave96 said:


> Ha ha - most of my horse customers are good to deal with. A few - crazy and I just don't do business with them.
> While I'm thinking about it - could you post a topic in the machinery section on how you got along with the Hesston 1840 this year? Maybe a few pics too...
> A review on the preservative you're using and the applicator would be a great read too if you could. Any dust or mold issues?
> Sorry to get off topic...
> Thanks!
> Bill


 Will do a review on the baler when I get a chance.....mostly been a good experience. Don't have a single picture of it in action.

Want to wait to give a review on the Silo King preservative until I sell/open enough of the treated bundles to be able to give an accurate review. I sell very little hay until about Thanksgiving. I like the applicator a lot and I feel the preservative works well but it's hard to tell without opening quite a few bundles to say for sure. I will say for sure that it takes a higher rate to get it to keep in the bundles than it does in looses stacked bales.


----------



## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> Dealt with my first crazy horse customer today. I have had mostly all good experiences selling to horse customers but this lady was crazy. Apparently she has a psychic evaluation done on her horse and the horse said it only liked one kind of hay.....orchard grass.....like I said crazy. Took over an hour to load 27 small squares in the back of a pickup truck.....she kept talking and going on and on and jumping from one topic to another......I never could figure out exactly what all she was saying......started to give me a headache listening to it. She really liked my hay though and said she wanted to start buying all of her hay from me.....I then told her all of the orchard grass I had left was sold.


How much does a horse psychic charge? How many people hire horse psychics? My dog told me he likes dog food by eating it. Does that make me a dog psychic?


----------



## somedevildawg

Teslan said:


> How much does a horse psychic charge? How many people hire horse psychics? My dog told me he likes dog food by eating it. Does that make me a dog psychic?


Don't kid yourself Teslan, they are expensive and for good reason......that takes a special degree, one can be obtained at one of these on-line colleges, like southern New Hampshire University.....they also have a double degree in mental telepathy combined with nutrition.....it's called "horsey care 101" here, not sure what it's called above the M/D line.
But if you qualify, and it's really easy to qualify, the state will pick up the tab, but as a prerequisite, you must also minor in cake decorating......
A mind is a terrible thing to waste......


----------



## somedevildawg

Seems we had one of their graduates on here a few months ago 

I also "presold all of my hay" just the other day....lady wanted to bitch about the price, I said "how many do you need" ... "Just 20 bales" she said....I said, I tell you what do, I think I have 21 available in a bundle, but not sure, let me check.....went to my truck and rummaged through some papers.....nope, we are sold out, had a customer pre buy the last of my squares.....(there were 4K stacked in front of her...) I do have a few cow rounds that have been stored outside  she surely didn't want to hear that.....but like I told her, they're cheap! Life is too short...


----------



## haygrl59

I think I might just have to go get me some "horse psychic" training. That way, I can tell the horsey folks that I just communicated telepathically with their horse (of course, telepathy can be done remotely  ) and that their horse just told me that they want whatever hay I point at. That would be a great marketing tool as well. We could advertise our hay with "horse psychic on the premises".


----------



## Tx Jim

Lostin55 said:


> Reminds me of the folks who buy a diesel pickup as a grocery getter, equipment that is never used, savings accounts that are empty, dogs that live their entire life on a chain, and several other things.
> I should add those that have a new boat, four wheeler, truck, and live in a 1967 rented mobile home.
> To each their own I suppose. We are all free to choose.


You left out diesel powered grocery getter,soccer mom has to be a 4X4


----------



## somedevildawg

haygrl59 said:


> I think I might just have to go get me some "horse psychic" training. That way, I can tell the horsey folks that I just communicated telepathically with their horse (of course, telepathy can be done remotely  ) and that their horse just told me that they want whatever hay I point at. That would be a great marketing tool as well. We could advertise our hay with "horse psychic on the premises".


You may be on to something......never thunk about that angle, I'm N.....


----------



## Wethay

As far as following directions to get somewhere I've heard a person described as "Could get lost in the grocery store". I've had a customer that needed 6 ton, shows up to get it and tells me she said one ton, okay fine. Next year same type deal. As my good customers stopped by next spring to let me know about how much hay they wanted I would con them out of a dollar, or a dime. Then when Ms. I won't be honest with you called I told her that most of my hay had been pre sold, with a non refundable deposit, if she wanted I could let her know what I didn't have sold when I started baling and had a better idea of yield.


----------



## swmnhay

Found a good Horsey customer.8 ton a month and the check book is out as soon as unloaded.


----------



## Randy Litton

1.Grandad only paid $.50/bale, but I can't pay you now, trust me!

2.I am looking for the best hay,

2a.Clean

2b.Fertilized

2c.Forage test RFV > 120

2d.First Cutting

2e.Moisture Content < 13%

2f.80# Bale

3. Delivered,Stacked in my loft; don't mind the junk you have to walk over

P.S. Can I give you a schedule so I don't have to get off the couch to feed MY horse?

Moral: You can't fix stupid.


----------



## Hayjosh

[email protected] said:


> 1.Grandad only paid $.50/bale, but I can't pay you now, trust me!
> 
> 2.I am looking for the best hay,
> 
> 2a.Clean
> 
> 2b.Fertilized
> 
> 2c.Forage test RFV > 120
> 
> 2d.First Cutting
> 
> 2e.Moisture Content < 13%
> 
> 2f.80# Bale
> 
> 3. Delivered,Stacked in my loft; don't mind the junk you have to walk over
> 
> P.S. Can I give you a schedule so I don't have to get off the couch to feed MY horse?
> 
> Moral: You can't fix stupid.


 Do your horsey people asking for first cutting hay know what horse's are? Do they think they have horses and really have cows? Around here you about can't give the stuff away.


----------



## Birdhunter1

I guess I'm the horse owner you guys would really love. I found my hay guy through some fellow horse friends, called him and talked hay for a while, he called when he had hay ready for pickup. I feed round bales and set them on end and peel them apart to feed, it works and is cheaper than square bales for me.

Anyway I show up, he loads up the round bales, we strap em down and talk, I pay in cash. In later conversation I inquire his rental ground operational practices as I wasn't happy with the guy row cropping my place and we strike a deal for him renting my place this year (and coming years) for hay crop production.

That sale worked out well for him!

Having said that I did my homework on the guy, we have several common farmer friends and they all said he puts up great hay and is good to deal with. I"m just feeding two old trail horses so I don't need alot of hay but I want them fed quality forage. So far the Orchard Grass hay I've got from him they eat every bit of it.


----------



## mlappin

Got $255/ton plus milage today for third cutting grass/alfalfa mix. Not sure how many these people are feeding but I took em a load two weeks ago and its gone, they bought three loads today actually. Must have deep pockets, from what I can tell they carry the round bale out in the pasture, dump em on their ends, pul the net then let the horses stand on most of it.

Then have the doctor down the road, daughter is off to college and lost interest in the hay burners, she's gone and now round bales are just fine. Load one bale in the pickup and take it a mile down the road, back into the pasture with the tail gate down and step hard on the brake, let it roll out, flop it over on its end then the doc cuts the net down about four inches in few places and folds it down. Then he plops a equine feeder around it, then he goes out once a day and cleans any off the ground and plops that on top of the bale and makes em eat it before pulling the net down anymore. Either the daughter is in a really expensive college for even a doctor to afford or he hasn't forgotten what it was like before he was a doctor.


----------



## Hayjosh

If I fed my horses round bales they'd stand out there and do nothing but eat on it, and they'd weigh about 1500 pounds by the end of winter.


----------



## Trillium Farm

Hayjosh said:


> If I fed my horses round bales they'd stand out there and do nothing but eat on it, and they'd weigh about 1500 pounds by the end of winter.


Agreed ! Just because people have horses doesn't mean they know horse husbandry. People who know proper horse care shy away from round bales and big sq bales, they stick to the old & true small sq bales because they are less likely to be dusty or mouldy and if they are the loss is minimal, whereas in a big bale the whole bale may be spoiled with unhealthy consequences to the horses. There are areas where such weather problems don't exist and there the big sq bales make sense, furthermore the round bale wasn't designed to be plunked down in a holder, but to be run-out like a carpet which very few do as it's more time consuming, also the round bale, if stores outside, requires a proper bed and distance between bales to avoid spoilage, this is almost never done, yet all the info is available online at the universities sites. I see too many people with horses who shouldn't be allowed to have a mouse as a pet, they do not educate themselves as to how much space is required by a horse, they buy a piece of land and they jam the horses in it, turning pasture into dust/mud and when they find out how much it cost to have good hay they throw fits.


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## mlappin

All mine are stored inside on pallets.

Loaded nine for a veterinarian last night.

Loaded two for guy training roping horses.

Father plops a bale of beef cow hay down and they can eat all they want, ain't gonna get fat on it though.


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## Trillium Farm

mlappin said:


> All mine are stored inside on pallets.
> 
> Loaded nine for a veterinarian last night.
> 
> Loaded two for guy training roping horses.
> 
> Father plops a bale of beef cow hay down and they can eat all they want, ain't gonna get fat on it though.


I've met vets who knew about anatomy yet very little about horse husbandry and also met many "Trainers" whom I wouldn't let housebreak a puppy. They survive because their clients know even less. I go by the maxim "Trust but Verify"


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## mlappin

Well, the supposed "trainer" traded a roping horse that he trained for a Dodge Cummins newer than anything I own, the supposed vet runs an equine center, so whatever.

My hay isn't dusty or moldy, if it is it gets fed to cows or sold as cow hay. I don't routinely top the hay auction by making dusty hay.

People who know little about hay think only small squares can be fed to a horse or they bought $15/bale round bales and expected it to be equivalent to $200-250/ton small squares.


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## Hayjosh

Round bales can be fine for horses if...


You are buying good hay to start, that's been well-kept (inside, palleted)
You have the equipment to handle it
You have enough mouths to eat it in enough time
The hay is fed under a cover (keeps the hay better longer, and horses are more apt to eat it too, despite the weather).
You have an option for horses at the bottom of the hierarchy.

I personally don't like round bales for horses for the reasons I stated earlier--a lot is wasted, I only have two horses, and they'd just eat on it all day and get fatter than they already are. One other reason I do not like them is they aren't accommodating to herd hierarchies. When you have your dominant mare, she wants to own all the other hay and will chase the others away. It was especially bad when I had three horses, and the odd man out was always getting chased away. With my small squares I spread them out far enough. When you have a bale ring, you need to watch closely to make sure there's not a dominant horse chasing others away. In that case you'd either need to have a second bale ring or second paddock, which may or may not be feasible. Throwing hay out to my horses twice a day gives me a good opportunity for a health check too.

I worked for a company and we had 100 Belgian draft horses, we fed 24 round bales/week. That's about the only way you can feed that many big mouths. We'd put 7-8 round bales in ring feeders about 3 times a week. They ate it down fast, but there was a lot of waste nonetheless. In this case, when the horses are in a big dry lot all day you need the hay ad lib as it becomes a source of enrichment/stimulus for them. On the other hand, I worked at a ranch in Arizona for a summer and we had about 30 horses there and fed them alfalfa cubes. I don't know what they were paying for those and not sure I want to. Sure were easy to feed though.

Good quality round bales are good for an equine center with a lot of horses where you can feed several rings simultaneously for the horses at the top and bottom of the totem pole. If you see two hay rings and one has a lot of hay eaten and the other doesn't, then you know where your bottom feeders are eating.


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## mlappin

Hayjosh said:


> Round bales can be fine for horses if...
> 
> 
> You are buying good hay to start, that's been well-kept (inside, palleted)
> You have the equipment to handle it
> You have enough mouths to eat it in enough time
> The hay is fed under a cover (keeps the hay better longer, and horses are more apt to eat it too, despite the weather).
> You have an option for horses at the bottom of the hierarchy.
> 
> I personally don't like round bales for horses for the reasons I stated earlier--a lot is wasted, I only have two horses, and they'd just eat on it all day and get fatter than they already are. One other reason I do not like them is they aren't accommodating to herd hierarchies. When you have your dominant mare, she wants to own all the other hay and will chase the others away. It was especially bad when I had three horses, and the odd man out was always getting chased away. With my small squares I spread them out far enough. When you have a bale ring, you need to watch closely to make sure there's not a dominant horse chasing others away. In that case you'd either need to have a second bale ring or second paddock, which may or may not be feasible. Throwing hay out to my horses twice a day gives me a good opportunity for a health check too.
> 
> I worked for a company and we had 100 Belgian draft horses, we fed 24 round bales/week. That's about the only way you can feed that many big mouths. We'd put 7-8 round bales in ring feeders about 3 times a week. They ate it down fast, but there was a lot of waste nonetheless. In this case, when the horses are in a big dry lot all day you need the hay ad lib as it becomes a source of enrichment/stimulus for them. On the other hand, I worked at a ranch in Arizona for a summer and we had about 30 horses there and fed them alfalfa cubes. I don't know what they were paying for those and not sure I want to. Sure were easy to feed though.
> 
> Good quality round bales are good for an equine center with a lot of horses where you can feed several rings simultaneously for the horses at the top and bottom of the totem pole. If you see two hay rings and one has a lot of hay eaten and the other doesn't, then you know where your bottom feeders are eating.


In a nutshell, gotta be smarter than the horse.

Dad has two of his exgirlfriends horses left here STILL, told him to give em away if thats what it takes as I want the pasture and building back for my heifers. Give em away and I'll even throw in a round bale if thats what it takes.

Dad built what I'd call an equine feeder except straight. Took old hoop freestalls, placed the end that bolted to the wall down, then another so far away, welded 2x2 angle irons the length of em, one on bottom, another so far up, ended up with enough slots to feed four horses, the two left are mother daughter so they get along fine anyways, trick is to place the round bale just close enough for them to reach then little to no waste. When he had more hay burners around always had paddocks in rotation and the low critter on the totem pole always got a chance to eat while the others were on a paddock.


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## Hayjosh

Don't get me started on what to do when a Belgian gets their leg caught in a round bale feeder. We had to put this heavy plastic sheeting around the bottom perimeter of all the feeder rings so they could only put their heads over the top and not legs through, or get the feeders that were solid metal all the way around the bottom perimeter.


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## mlappin

Hayjosh said:


> Don't get me started on what to do when a Belgian gets their leg caught in a round bale feeder. We had to put this heavy plastic sheeting around the bottom perimeter of all the feeder rings so they could only put their heads over the top and not legs through, or get the feeders that were solid metal all the way around the bottom perimeter.


Yep, horses can be almost as stupid as cows when they try. I've had to weld an extra piece of pipe or angle here or there on the portable bunks I built as a calf sooner or later would find a way to get their head stuck.


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## endrow

Trillium Farm said:


> Agreed ! Just because people have horses doesn't mean they know horse husbandry. People who know proper horse care shy away from round bales and big sq bales, they stick to the old & true small sq bales because they are less likely to be dusty or mouldy and if they are the loss is minimal, whereas in a big bale the whole bale may be spoiled with unhealthy consequences to the horses. There are areas where such weather problems don't exist and there the big sq bales make sense, furthermore the round bale wasn't designed to be plunked down in a holder, but to be run-out like a carpet which very few do as it's more time consuming, also the round bale, if stores outside, requires a proper bed and distance between bales to avoid spoilage, this is almost never done, yet all the info is available online at the universities sites. I see too many people with horses who shouldn't be allowed to have a mouse as a pet, they do not educate themselves as to how much space is required by a horse, they buy a piece of land and they jam the horses in it, turning pasture into dust/mud and when they find out how much it cost to have good hay they throw fits.


 how do you go about feeding a round bale when it's run out like a carpet is there fencing involved so the horses can't step on it while they're eating it and is that under roof


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## Coondle

Farm animals:horses, cows, sheep, goats etc are marvellous critters. I marvel at the way they can get to die. Need a set of Darwin awards for animals.

I am sure if today you could document 1000 ways animals can find to die:

head stuck in fence,

foot stuck in feeder,

fall in hole, etc etc

by tomorrow there would be 1001 and next day 1002 and so on.

On the topic of feeders, the frame for the 1000 litre IBC's makes a mini-feeder for 4 idiot cuboids.

Small animals like sheep (without horns ie polled), can feed through the bars and large stock like horses and cattle can reach over the top. The beauty is that the stock cannot trample any uneaten hay and horses and cows tend not to drag and drop because they have their heads down a bit in a more natural grazing position. Of course some idiot critter will do the drag and drop but it is minimised.

Easy to move about and easy to put under cover if necessary.

Some people call IBC's "pods" but in case some readers do not know, their correct name is "Intermediate Bulk Container".


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## Trillium Farm

mlappin said:


> Well, the supposed "trainer" traded a roping horse that he trained for a Dodge Cummins newer than anything I own, the supposed vet runs an equine center, so whatever.
> My hay isn't dusty or moldy, if it is it gets fed to cows or sold as cow hay. I don't routinely top the hay auction by making dusty hay.
> People who know little about hay think only small squares can be fed to a horse or they bought $15/bale round bales and expected it to be equivalent to $200-250/ton small squares.


Mlappin, I wasn't saying that your hay was bad at all! I was merely saying that just because one is vet or trainer doesn't necessarily mean that they are knowledgeable, they may be, but their title doesn't confer on them any deep knowledge, just the bare minimum. This is why I said trust but verify. Also the implied barb as to my hay knowledge wasn't really necessary as you really don't know what it is, As I said the big bales make sense where you don't have the weather problems to contend, that has been my experience, it may not be yours. I have personal friends who are veterinarians (horses) and they told me that at university they dedicate a whole week to horses, imagine a whole week! They said they their experience is gained in the field. Things may be different nowadays. We all have different experiences and a forum is a nice place to discuss them, without animosity.


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## Trillium Farm

endrow said:


> how do you go about feeding a round bale when it's run out like a carpet is there fencing involved so the horses can't step on it while they're eating it and is that under roof


You can't ! They will step on it and there will be waste as there is when you put it in a bin/holder, the main difference is that dominant animals can't hog it as the hay is spread over a much longer area.


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## Hayjosh

Trillium Farm said:


> . I have personal friends who are veterinarians (horses) and they told me that at university they dedicate a whole week to horses, imagine a whole week! They said they their experience is gained in the field.


Sounds like you probably want to trust but verify as well. I did my graduate school at Iowa State University's College of Veterinary Medicine and work for the largest employer of veterinarians in the country, with the exception of the USDA. I work with hundreds of veterinarians around the world, including the leading key opinion leaders in their disciplines. I also present scientific research to veterinarians, and I publish research in veterinary journals, so I have a beginner's knowledge of the subject. Your sources who are horse vets yet claim they only spent an entire week dedicated to horses is the biggest load of horse poo I've seen this week aside from what I just cleaned out on Sunday.

In vet school students spend three years dedicated to classroom curriculum, and you have a specialty in mind. The curricula starts out very broad and basic and becomes more specific each year. The entire 4th year for the VM4's is hell year where they do their clinical rotations and while they get a taste of everything here, they spend a lot of time on their specialty. 4th year isn't a school year, it is a 12 month, calendar year, with long hours, and then they take their boards. Most recent grads then enter into an extended version of hell year, that might go for 2 more years, called an 'internship,' where they are the bottom feeders at the practice and get used and abused. A lot of ultra-specialized learning does occur during this post-graduation period (and for the rest of their career), but for a horse vet to claim they only have a single week dedicated to horses in vet school is ludicrous.

What I'm trying to say is, I think they're exaggerating


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## skyrydr2

99% of my horse customers always insist on first cut? And quite frankly I am very pleased because my stupid cows wont eat it.. they pull it out and lay on it..put second cut in the feeder and they will eat every strand and moo at you for more.. 
Yup ..I have a horse customer that insists on testing bales first, so we let her,she has a really old horse and tries to feed him well (38 yrs old) but he needs low sugar hay. We cut this 1 field that yields just the right stuff for her. Thank god because my animals won't touch the stuff. Only pain is keeping it seperate at the barn. It winds up getting buried if they are late.
Finally starting to sell hay because the market was so flooded here, I have about 400 bales of low quality hay I need to get rid of, its nice dry stuff, just went past prime before I was able to get on the field, $2 a bale and I'll help load it!


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## Trillium Farm

Hayjosh said:


> Sounds like you probably want to trust but verify as well. I did my graduate school at Iowa State University's College of Veterinary Medicine and work for the largest employer of veterinarians in the country, with the exception of the USDA. I work with hundreds of veterinarians around the world, including the leading key opinion leaders in their disciplines. I also present scientific research to veterinarians, and I publish research in veterinary journals, so I have a beginner's knowledge of the subject. Your sources who are horse vets yet claim they only spent an entire week dedicated to horses is the biggest load of horse poo I've seen this week aside from what I just cleaned out on Sunday.
> 
> In vet school students spend three years dedicated to classroom curriculum, and you have a specialty in mind. The curricula starts out very broad and basic and becomes more specific each year. The entire 4th year for the VM4's is hell year where they do their clinical rotations and while they get a taste of everything here, they spend a lot of time on their specialty. 4th year isn't a school year, it is a 12 month, calendar year, with long hours, and then they take their boards. Most recent grads then enter into an extended version of hell year, that might go for 2 more years, called an 'internship,' where they are the bottom feeders at the practice and get used and abused. A lot of ultra-specialized learning does occur during this post-graduation period (and for the rest of their career), but for a horse vet to claim they only have a single week dedicated to horses in vet school is ludicrous.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, I think they're exaggerating


Glad to see that the curriculum has been revised/improved! My term of reference was the curriculum at Guelph University dept of veterinary sciences in the 60 & 70s. Or it could be different curricula in different countries, what's important is that they've improved it. Wasn't my intention to upset people, but only to express my experiences.


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## mlappin

First cutting isn't unusual for most of my horse customers. If its made early or on time its fine, starts to get ripe and they don't want it depending on what they're feeding. A little past prime 1st cutting usually works well for boredom hay for lawn ornaments. The amish tend to prefer 2nd or 3rd cutting for their buggy horses. Ripe first cutting gets sold as beef cow hay or gets ground with better silage bales for my beef cows in the summer.

I have a friend that has a daughter that just turned into a teenager, she''s big into barrel racing. I had some first I made early while waiting for the ground to get fit to finish soybean planting. The daughter has a pony that she uses for barrel racing, ponies getting older but she's had it forever, pony is full of try as my buddy puts it. Usually they add beet pulp or whatever to keep weight on it, that early first not only does the pony love it, it's putting weight back on with no beet pulp. He told me to save it all for him.

When I made the reference to the vet that's because around here everybody seems to have a horse again, it's getting near impossible to actually find a vet that handles anything but small animals or horses, had to wait almost a week for one to come out to look at a lame steer.

Turns out on the steer it was genetic or something, growth plates were growing funny at the joints causing ligament irritation. The vet that came out said they might be able to do something for him at Purdue, A Winchester 22LR did something for him instead.


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## hillside hay

Most of my horse customers prefer late first cut. Darn near mushroom hay. My early first second and third all goes to dairies.


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## Hayjosh

Trillium Farm said:


> Glad to see that the curriculum has been revised/improved! My term of reference was the curriculum at Guelph University dept of veterinary sciences in the 60 & 70s. Or it could be different curricula in different countries, what's important is that they've improved it. Wasn't my intention to upset people, but only to express my experiences.


I've worked with several researchers at Guelph as well! The 60's and 70's were a long time ago in terms of education and science, so I can't speak to how things were back then.


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## azmike

Goat People! We keep most of hay for our cattle but have established a good market with a few meat and dairy goat farms.


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## Trillium Farm

Hayjosh said:


> I've worked with several researchers at Guelph as well! The 60's and 70's were a long time ago in terms of education and science, so I can't speak to how things were back then.


I wish I wouldn't remember that far back either


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## skyrydr2

I must be doing something right? As I just picked up 2 customers that each have at least 40 acres they want hayed. Dropped on the fields and they will pick them up. My biggest concern is distance.. they are over 20 miles in opposite directions from me,being in the center. Both are big equestrian folk. 
I will be straight out haying and will need more truck and trailers to keep logistics real. Dang it! I need a better mower and inline baler so I can tow them on a trailer DOH!


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## swmnhay

Get the call again last night after dark.
Can you please bring us hay.
Not today,tommorow I can
Can you bring skid loader also our tractor is running like shit.
Yea I can
Can you give them a bale when you get here.
Yea.
We need a different tractor this run isn't running for shit.Have to get a different one.

Well the tractor has run like shit for 3 yrs and hits on 3 cylinders.Prly needs a new distributor cap and a simple tune up.Spark plug wires look like originals and maybe the distributor cap also last time I walked by it.SMH


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## IHCman

Dad has sold hay to a cousin of his that is like that. Tractor is either gelled up because he didn't get any #1 to put in it. Or its broke down. Guy never plans ahead. Always wants hay when its -20 and the snow is deep. He knows when the trucker is bringing the hay to his place but never tries to get his tractor started till the truck is there and then it never starts. He sometimes gets a neighbor of his to come over when his tractor is broke down/won't start. Only reason he buys hay is that he never gets his own put up. One year he did get it put up but claimed the snow was to deep to get out in the field and get it.


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## Randy Litton

Hayjosh said:


> Do your horsey people asking for first cutting hay know what horse's are? Do they think they have horses and really have cows? Around here you about can't give the stuff away.


Yes to all the above. I am married to a horsey person and have been on a honeymoon for 44 years, but she rides daily and takes care of the horses; mucks stalls, checks horses and stalls every day, at least once. On the other hand, I feel sorry for the back yard horses forgotten by people who wanted a horse until, like a child, they require attention. This is not to disparage horse people, but there are horses left at the sale tied up and the owner no where to be found. We vet people we sell hay, and question how the hay will be expected to perform. When you sell to horse people, you can produce tons of the best hay, but you are remembered for the one bale stored wrong and you get the free bad advertisement. My comments were a accumulation of some of the more bizarre from years of growing hay.


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## skyrydr2

Funny how different parts of the country want different hay. My Horsey folks are pretty fussy for what "THEY" want and quite frankly I'm so glad they do, because they buy all of my first cut and pretty much leave me with all second cut for my cows. I love them for this, and so does me moo moos. The fussy critters wont touch first cut hay and sit there and hollar constant!


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## skyrydr2

Just delivered 370 bales to bunch of horsey people this am..


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## skyrydr2

Delivered the hay with no troubles and saw the horsey outfit across the road... HOLY MOLY! 50 stalls at $1075 a month..I'm in the wrong business... and they have a waiting list to board there! I never thought to snap a photo of the place but its a beautiful NewEngland farm. Only thing different is it owned by English folk. Boarders were over at the stables I was at talking about them. Said they didn't know anything about a horse. I was laughing to my self, thinking they must know something to be raking in 53+k a month for boarding...


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## skyrydr2

I'm not sure this will work, but here goes.. a link to google earth from where I was standing yesterday.
https://earth.app.goo.gl/?apn=com.google.earth&ibi=com.google.b612&isi=293622097&ius=googleearth&link=https%3a%2f%2fearth.google.com%2fweb%2f%4042.38468289,-71.61753132,148.82531738a,0d,90y,294.95080346h,90.07239849t,0r%2fdata%3dIhoKFmVFcHI0d0xRakxjTWp3Q0ZjQzBsN1EQAg


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## ozarkian

The link worked for me. very nice.


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## Farmineer95

Here's one: I saw the neighbors horse grazing in my field. I text him to let him know. He replies thanks. Then goes on to say its because of the weather he can't control it that's why they like my grass that's growing. (It's February in WI) then he goes on to say that its the third time this week but it's ok because they aren't doing any damage. God Bless.

Now I'm about to get a bloody nose due to the blood pressure spike. What do I do?

.....breathing fire from nostrils.....


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## BWfarms

Farmineer95 said:


> Here's one: I saw the neighbors horse grazing in my field. I text him to let him know. He replies thanks. Then goes on to say its because of the weather he can't control it that's why they like my grass that's growing. (It's February in WI) then he goes on to say that its the third time this week but it's ok because they aren't doing any damage. God Bless.
> Now I'm about to get a bloody nose due to the blood pressure spike. What do I do?
> .....breathing fire from nostrils.....


Run a herd of cows onto his property, say the same thing back. (I only had this image in my head, doubt I would even do it)

Call the Sheriff's department about a chronic animal at large issue. That'll either get your neighbor's attention or do them a favor.


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## Hayjosh

Farmineer95 said:


> Here's one: I saw the neighbors horse grazing in my field. I text him to let him know. He replies thanks. Then goes on to say its because of the weather he can't control it that's why they like my grass that's growing. (It's February in WI) then he goes on to say that its the third time this week but it's ok because they aren't doing any damage. God Bless.
> 
> Now I'm about to get a bloody nose due to the blood pressure spike. What do I do?
> 
> .....breathing fire from nostrils.....


Has he ever heard of a FENCE? I use them, they work pretty well.


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## Hayman1

Hayjosh said:


> Has he ever heard of a FENCE? I use them, they work pretty well.


Maybe the next time tell him you are taking it to market as a free range horse that happens to be on your property


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## swmnhay

Guy I know asks me if his baby momma still buying hay from me.

Yep but she is behind on it.

He says;I suppose the child support I pay her goes to you for hay.

I saidrobably.

Then I said:Why don't you just pay me directly.I'd get it sooner then. 

He didn't see much humor in that.


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## Coondle

There are some intellectual giants that keep horses: try this for an exchange of emails> I will conceal the name of the OP to protect the innocent.

Incoming

Hi could I get 12 bales of oaten hay if possible? Can you deliver?

Reply:

Yes you could get 12 bales, Delivery charges depend on distance and for 12 would attract a minimum charge.

Incoming

How much would delivery be im located in Bennett springs near beechburo

Reply:

$1.00 per bale with a $60.00 minimum

Incoming

$1.00 per bale haha or do u mean $10 a bale

Reply:

...., you asked how much delivery would be to Bennett Springs. I answered the question asked by giving the delivery component costs. The bales are of course extra but you did not ask for a bale plus delivery inclusive price. I thought you would be able to work it out depending on quantity desired.

I guess I should have given her the price if 12 x $8 = $96 plus $60 delivery = $156.

So maybe it was me that was stupid, but very often the quantity ordered changes when delivery charge structure is known


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## Three44s

Most of my hay is sold to horse people. All of my customers are good.

You have to set up your rules and stick to them.

When somebody tries to play me they are either picking themselves up and heading out empty handed or shaped up real fast.

I do not deliver except in very rare circumstances. I also do not load. My back is burnt out just trying to feed my own cows.

On thing that helps me attract customers is our large truck scales on our ranch (we have them for our rock pit). I rarely sell by the bale and only to select and very reliable customers.

After you have been "sorting the wheat from the chaff" for a while you can see chaff coming at you pretty fast.

You treat your good remaining customers with total respect and they will reward you with repeat sales.

Three44s


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## mlappin

This thread started roughly nine years ago, can we rename it "Horsey People, A never ending Epic"?


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## Three44s

mlappin said:


> This thread started roughly nine years ago, can we rename it "Horsey People, A never ending Epic"?


.... and just when you think you have seen it all and heard it all ........

..... one comes along that blows your socks off!

Best regards

Three44s


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## swmnhay

SMH

Horsey customer calls for hay and said he figured I was busy.I said how long do I have monday would work better as its supposed to be raining.

1/2 day,they are out of hay.


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## stack em up

swmnhay said:


> SMH
> 
> Horsey customer calls for hay and said he figured I was busy.I said how long do I have monday would work better as its supposed to be raining.
> 
> 1/2 day,they are out of hay.


Need to buy a rendering truck Cy, that way if you can't deliver the hay, you can at least still make some money! Trying to look at it from all angles like this guy I know from Reading MN....


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## swmnhay

stack em up said:


> Need to buy a rendering truck Cy, that way if you can't deliver the hay, you can at least still make some money! Trying to look at it from all angles like this guy I know from Reading MN....


One thing about it they take the poorest grass hay I have,and I charge a PIA fee for delivering 5 bales at a time,Slow in paying but I eventually get it.


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## KYhaymaker

I love this thread lol. Yall have a lot of patience.

When I was a kid we used to haul a lot of hay to horse farms here in Ky. We'd buy up morth and sell down here. The farther north we went it seemed easier to find real high quality horse hay...lower humidity? Anyway there were a few shenanigans but sounds like it has gotten a lot worse!


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## swmnhay

Never ending saga.

Get the call at 3PM.Can you bring some hay?

Me,When?

As soon as you can they are out .Someone cut the fence.We been trying to get them in for 2 days.

Me,You do know it gets dark before 5?

Well we would really appritiate it and we cant get them in.

So anyway I get there with hay they have none the ground is dirt where they feed them and all the horses are standing in the yard eating grass.Well daa they are hungry and broke out to get some grass.SMH


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## swmnhay

The never ending saga
Sitting at end of driveway on road
So the horsey people can unload me.He can't get tractor started. It's 13 degrees out and the POS tractor
That barely runs when it's warm out won't stay running. Today is the coldest it's been for A week so of course let's call for hay today SMH


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## swmnhay

Tractor never did start so he calls neighbor to borrow tractor and then his car wouldn’t start either so he couldn’t drive over to get it.I said I’m going home call me when you got something figured out tommorow to unload and running and then I will come over.


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## r82230

Hope the mileage isn't too far (unless you enjoy the scenery or have a good co-pilot ).

Larry


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## swmnhay

r82230 said:


> Hope the mileage isn't too far (unless you enjoy the scenery or have a good co-pilot ).
> 
> Larry


5 miles so not bad.


----------



## IHCman

Dad used to sell hay to a cousin of this that was like that. First off he'd put up hay but never get it moved in to the yard before winter so he'd buy it instead of plowing a trail to pick up the bales. He'd usually call when he was completely out of hay or darn close and always late in the winter when the snow would be deep. I'd end up either plowing out a spot in our yard big enough to get a semi in to load and turn around or I'd haul the bales to a place in our yard to load the semi and make it an easy straight shot back on the road. Then the trucker would get to the cousins place and no snow would be pushed, tractor would be gelled up with no number 1 in it or some other excuse why it wouldn't start. Usually would get a neighbor to come over and unload the truck. Would take all day for that truck to get unloaded. Then to top it off the cousin was slow to pay. Pretty sure the bank shut him off and he is out of business. He farmed also and never could seem to get his crop planted or combined.

I told Dad to either not sell to him or else give him a discount if he'd get his hay in the fall before the snow was deep. Shoulda charged him extra for all the hassle but Dad felt sorry for him and would always cut him a break.


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## Palmettokat

It can be hard to when to cut loss a customer. Not easy emotionally to sometimes. You think about all the free or discounted pricing or easy efforts you have done for them. I learned long time ago as soon as I realized it was a money losing situation to cut my losses and get out of there. Not easy some times to, we want to think they will always do what is right.


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## Uphayman

I consider myself a man of patience. But I have my limits. Usually use 3 strikes rule. When I have to deliver and bring a skid steer to unload, strike one. When they say a bale is "dusty" ,but looks great......strike two. When asked if they can break up payment over 3 pay periods........your out.

"Have a goooooood day." Code word for " you won't see me in your yard again."


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## Uphayman

Same applies for non horsey people. Example: Account feeds a species of non farm animals........tell owner exactly what I have in phone conversation. Owner lives 1500 miles away. Get a call, says hay is too grassy. I give him option of picking up hay and refund. Or price discount.......haven't been paid yet. Ask him how many bales that they've fed........." None , we haven't opened any up yet" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait 2 months for payment. "Have a gooooooood day."


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## Vol

Uphayman said:


> Same applies for non horsey people. Example: Account feeds a species of non farm animals........tell owner exactly what I have in phone conversation. Owner lives 1500 miles away. Get a call, says hay is too grassy. I give him option of picking up hay and refund. Or price discount.......haven't been paid yet. Ask him how many bales that they've fed........." None , we haven't opened any up yet" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait 2 months for payment. "Have a gooooooood day."


That's hilarious Monty.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Ray 54

I just got reminded again mostly people don't change. Mr Hollywood from 2 almost hit shows back in the 1960's ends up next door buying a 320 in 65. Never payed for work if he could just out last you.

In 1980 when I was getting started farming I rented it. He had some tricks but I made out. Wine grapes where getting a good start and whole lot bigger gross than grain. So he got hooked up with a investor group, they had a good manager that I knew. He asked me to till it so surveying of row would be easier than in 3 foot high weeds,a real good price if it was done right away. Well the investment group feel apart, manager and I were both owed money. The manager stayed with it and made paying vineyard out of it. But for years he followed every load of grapes to the scale to make sure he got his cut. He offered to let me in,the one mistake I made. I just billed Mr Hollywood,from renting I had a private phone number or two. Took better than 3 years but I money $300 at a time.

All was well for 25 years. Then he started calling again want little bits of tractor work, my question was "how do I get payed this time". He slammed the phone down. But no a month latter he calls again,he keeps being a pest for 2 years.

Well the light finally comes on, I am not real busy do a few hours of work charge a high price and he will leave me alone for 20 more years. Cheap at higher price even. Darned if his daughter is manager of things and pays right up. So I started doing little jobs as it was just out a gate from my pasture to his place. Thing work 4 or 5 years. I planted 20 acres of oats for hay for there horse(finally got to horse people). Well one year I have a little trouble getting payed,need to make payments. I should of been smart and stopped. But I gave them another chance. At least I didn't supply seed and fertilizer this time. It was also in are big drought so I thought I take hay this time if not up to date on pay. They made good excuses and a real pain to get in and haul out with more than a pickup.

By now old Mr Hollywood calls last in 16 so I talk with daughter just pay for last year and I will plant again. But no money in my mail box. In fall of 17 are hay planting time he calls,when I have money owed we talk about the future. Called again just as I finished my planting a week or so ago. When are you coming and doing mine? Well are rain finally started 7+ inches since I planted here. In the winter it takes about 2 weeks if we don't get more rain. He has never figured out when planting time is. Starts after are first fall rain until the end of January by government crop insurance rules.

With the current pestering my answer was nothing to talk about until I am payed from last time. To which he asks we owe you? I will check on that.

So at this point the only way is cash at the being of every day unless they take a chance and really pay it all in advance. But if they leave bills without paying,good chance you will not be ether.


----------



## Uphayman

Delivered a load of pretty decent second crop meadow brome /alfalfa mix last week to an Amish customer farming in an area hurt by drought last summer. His 3rd of 4 loads. Commenting to the fellow who unloaded me and myself....... he said he wasn't able to just drop a bale in the feeder, like he used to do, (other suppliers hay). I asked why, he answers " because the horses gorge on it and eat to much" .........cracks a grin and says...." that's some nice hay."

Made my day!!!!


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## swmnhay

Horsey gal getting farther behind on hay bill.Horses at her parents.Well he says she will get me some money soon but because her child support payments are behind she doesn’t have the money as part of the child support she ear marks to pay for the hay.


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## Tx Jim

Having paid my share of child support & observed how it was spent I think that this women ""should be put in jail"" for spending child support money on horse hay unless the hay would be strictly fed to children's horses which I seriously doubt.


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## Trillium Farm

Child support has become another euphemism for alimony


----------



## r82230

Tx Jim said:


> Having paid my share of child support & observed how it was spent I think that this women ""should be put in jail"" for spending child support money on horse hay unless the hay would be strictly fed to children's horses which I seriously doubt.


Wait a minute Jim, what if she is from somewhere in Europe and believes in eating horse meat, it's possible she could be feeding her family.   :lol: I know extremely highly doubtful (that she is eating horse meat), just pulling your chain a little, today. 

Larry


----------



## Tx Jim

Larry

No problem pulling my chain as it has a "weak link"".LOL My ex-wife came up with many things to spend child support on besides our children.


----------



## VA Haymaker

Regular customers have come and gone. Now the email activity and phone calls are just starting to come as horse customers either just now have the $$’s to buy hay or are realizing between our drought and cooler temps, they better buy some squares. I’ve never seen so few squares on Craigslist or prices so high (this early). Some customers are already feeding hay and a friend who is in cattle told me they were starting to feed hay. It will be interesting to see how scarce hay is between now and spring and how high the price goes...


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## BWfarms

I just started feeding hay to my cattle this week to help alleviate pasture stress and give it a chance to stockpile. I probably started a week too late. I didn't even cut a fall cut, way to parched. It is more economical for me to preserve my fields and buy. So when I start emptying barns I'll probably buy some for insurance.


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## Tim/South

Been feeding 1.5 rolls per day for 3 weeks.
Have 25 acres on the ground. Went to bale last Saturday with 10% chance of rain and the bottom fell out. Hope to get it rolled today, after 4.75 inches of rain Saturday, Sunday and Monday.
Glad I do not do squares any more. About half the horse people here have gone to rounds. Amazing how much more safe rounds have become since the price of squares went up.


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## Hayjosh

I usually don't start feeding hay until first of November, when the horses come off pasture for good. Two pastures are already closed down for the year. I'm always excited to start feeding hay, because it's MY hay and it's pretty nice hay.


----------



## VA Haymaker

Without a doubt there is a hay shortage in my area and beyond. I'm getting calls from folks 2-3 hrs away. Not only are these folks looking for hay, some of them are over the top rude on trying to talk down your hay and the price, ie - not worth that much - LOL!

We make a shorter bale (32ish inches) with our pan kicker as they hold their shape better and as such the bales are lighter and easier on everyone's back. To be fair, we reduce the price accordingly. Again, we reduce the price accordingly. That ain't enough for some of these goofy horse customers. I could price my hay at $1.00 per bale and these folks would complain about the size and weight. I tell them to stick with the $20+ compressed bales at TSC - LOL!


----------



## broadriverhay

Don’t cut your prices at all. Most horse people don’t have a clue what it takes to make quality hay. I know a couple that have talked farmers down for years. A few years ago they sprigged a small field and the crabgrass took over. Maybe now they understand why hay isn’t cheap. All of them need to try it and see how hard we work to produce a quality product. It takes a lot of time , money , hard work and dedication. I don’t know anyone who works at it as hard as I do. I cut no expense to have the highest quality hay and the best equipment. But maybe that’s why I have over 4000 bales already reserved for 2020 hay season.


----------



## BWfarms

Guy I know asked me if I had squares for sale, he sold out and had buyers looking, I told him to call me in February.


----------



## Farmineer95

It's a good feeling to be sold out or have it spoken for, but it stinks that we're sold out. Thinking there's going to be culling this winter, umm I'm talking about dairy.


----------



## swmnhay

https://www.captiongenerator.com/1585912/The-Horse-Lady-called?fbclid=IwAR1qkFbHq8NsvejlGSOA5uQsBVaFbEqUfpnu-ryzCm5rCv8G4PPxbczZ9Ok

LOL


----------



## VA Haymaker

swmnhay said:


> https://www.captiongenerator.com/1585912/The-Horse-Lady-called?fbclid=IwAR1qkFbHq8NsvejlGSOA5uQsBVaFbEqUfpnu-ryzCm5rCv8G4PPxbczZ9Ok
> 
> LOL


Academy award!!!!!!


----------



## broadriverhay

I sent the video to some of my customers. Even they agreed with it. It is spot on .


----------



## farmer97

Never get old reading this thread!


----------



## mlappin

Farmineer95 said:


> It's a good feeling to be sold out or have it spoken for, but it stinks that we're sold out. Thinking there's going to be culling this winter, umm I'm talking about dairy.


Same boat, don't even have enough to supply my steady customers let alone the people who are calling.


----------



## JD3430

Just took on a newbie and I had my suspicions...
Young lady in her 20's with too much cleavage showing began renting out paddocks from a customer I cut paddocks for. 
She bought one 4x5 from me last month and, yep, I did it, I took a $100 check-goes totally against my better judgement, but I did it. Check went through OK. Called again last week for another bale. Set it up for Monday delivery and paid me with a $100 check. (I deposit checks immediately with on line deposit from my phone). About 5 hours later middle of the day, I get a text. "Hey sorry, I overdrew my checking account. A bunch of checks hit my account all at once. Can you wait until Thursday to deposit my check"? 
Like I said, I deposit the check in the driveway....
I told her "I deposited the check already, so if it bounces, I will let you know and also I charge a $50 dollar fee for returned checks." Check went through today, but I guess it could still bounce later? I really dont know for sure. 
She apologized and said it wont happen again....we shall see. One more time and it's cash only I guess.

Love selling the feed hay, but where do these people get this training and attitude that they can jerk around their hay supplier?


----------



## stack em up

I find it humorous they wrote a check for a $50 bale of hay then had to pay another $30 at least to cover the overdraft at the bank. Had some horse customers once not have enough cash they were counting out change. Kept their 1 horse hay consumer fed a little longer.

Other end of the spectrum I sold some premium alfalfa squares to a 4H girl for her rabbits. Only needed 6 but the first words out of her mouth was "I have cash!!!" I didn't charge her and she was extremely grateful.


----------



## r82230

stack em up said:


> Other end of the spectrum I sold some premium alfalfa squares to a 4H girl for her rabbits. Only needed 6 but the first words out of her mouth was "I have cash!!!" I didn't charge her and she was extremely grateful.


You messed up her accounting for cost to raise the critters.  :lol: I'm kind of in the same boat, don't charge my grandkids for the hay, some (a lot) of the feed, boarding, use of equipment, etc. (but I do get an IOU that I don't collect on for their 4H steer each year ).

Soft spot for 4H I'd guess, but it seems to help keep them off the 'smart' phones (a little).

Larry


----------



## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> Just took on a newbie and I had my suspicions...
> Young lady in her 20's with too much cleavage showing began renting out paddocks from a customer I cut paddocks for.
> She bought one 4x5 from me last month and, yep, I did it, I took a $100 check-goes totally against my better judgement, but I did it. Check went through OK. Called again last week for another bale. Set it up for Monday delivery and paid me with a $100 check. (I deposit checks immediately with on line deposit from my phone). About 5 hours later middle of the day, I get a text. "Hey sorry, I overdrew my checking account. A bunch of checks hit my account all at once. Can you wait until Thursday to deposit my check"?
> Like I said, I deposit the check in the driveway....
> I told her "I deposited the check already, so if it bounces, I will let you know and also I charge a $50 dollar fee for returned checks." Check went through today, but I guess it could still bounce later? I really dont know for sure.
> She apologized and said it wont happen again....we shall see. One more time and it's cash only I guess.
> 
> Love selling the feed hay, but where do these people get this training and attitude that they can jerk around their hay supplier?


 I've read this and reread this about 10 times to make sure I didn't miss anything, trying to figure out where she was jerking you around. I don't think she was; sounds like an honest mistake. She did give you a heads up and then apologize for it after all.


----------



## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> I've read this and reread this about 10 times to make sure I didn't miss anything, trying to figure out where she was jerking you around. I don't think she was; sounds like an honest mistake. She did give you a heads up and then apologize for it after all.


It was. Sometimes when in the company of other farmers that sell hay, you share these kinds of experiences.
I think the point I was trying to make is that these young ladies are really impressed with themselves and all their horses, trucks, trailers, saddles, equestrian events and trophies, but they barely keep enough money in their checking account to cover one bale of hay.

However, there was a degree of jerking me around in that I could really dispense with the stress of having to worry about bounced checks when I have a business to run. 
My hope is she could learn to be a little more responsible with her checkbook and this doesn't happen again. Maybe the warning for the bounced check fee and converting to cash payment only will end it and she can learn something more than she learned in high school about a checkbook ledger.


----------



## Hayjosh

That's the cost of doing business; you either don't accept checks and accept the inconvenience of cash, accept checks and assume the risk, or accept credit card and have to pay for the service. Running a business is stress; that's why most people don't/can't do it. I'm surprised she writes that many checks in her 20's...I think I maybe write 4 checks a year.

Personally, I'm like you in that I do all my banking from my phone. Deposit checks, transfer funds between accounts, etc. I prefer when they pay by check rather than cash, but the people I sell to are pretty established buyers and therefore considered low risk. Average Joe off the street is still cash until they've become a regular buyer too. I develop a relationship with almost all my buyers.

Why not Paypal, Google, or Apple Pay? I bought a tedder from a guy last year, I won't carry thousands in cash to these transactions. I paid him on the spot through Facebook messenger, it was an instant transfer into his bank account and was free.


----------



## JD3430

Hmmmm I never thought of cash as inconvenient, and I don’t think you’re anything like me....


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## Tx Jim

JD3430 said:


> Hmmmm I never thought of cash as inconvenient


Well it's difficult to keep the cash in my pocket plus it messes up my Quicken records. LOL


----------



## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> Hmmmm I never thought of cash as inconvenient


 I hate cash, means a trip to the ATM or bank to get it into my account. I don't like buying something with cash because should I need to return it, I'd have to have the receipt instead of them looking it up by my card. And I'm not too good at keeping receipts in order.


----------



## broadriverhay

Cash any day and all day !!!!!


----------



## JD3430

broadriverhay said:


> Cash any day and all day !!!!!


Yes sir!!! ????
I can't afford much new stuff from dealers. Cash always get me a better deal on used equipment.
As my dad always used to say "cash is King"


----------



## Hayjosh

Cash is king, but that does't mean I have $40,000 of cash sitting inside my mattress in case I need to buy used equipment. That cash resides in my bank account...hence back to my first point.


----------



## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> Cash is king, but that does't mean I have $40,000 of cash sitting inside my mattress in case I need to buy used equipment. That cash resides in my bank account...hence back to my first point.


Pretty extreme reaction to go from my example of $100 for 1 bale of hay to "$40,000 sitting inside my mattress", but whatever.

I dont stuff my mattress with $40,000. However, when I have smaller items for sale on CL and I sell them for cash, I'll be damned if I feel like I must deposit the cash into a bank account and then during a possible future audit have to explain where all those little deposits came from going back 7 years.

Nope, I'd rather just keep that money to buy smaller used pieces I need.

Nobody needs to know about those transactions, especially the government, they get enough of my info.


----------



## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Pretty extreme reaction to go from my example of $100 for 1 bale of hay to "$40,000 sitting inside my mattress", but whatever.
> I dont stuff my mattress with $40,000. However, when I have smaller items for sale on CL and I sell them for cash, I'll be damned if I feel like I must deposit the cash into a bank account and then during a possible future audit have to explain where all those little deposits came from going back 7 years.
> Nope, I'd rather just keep that money to buy smaller used pieces I need.
> Nobody needs to know about those transactions, especially the government, they get enough of my info.


Posting things like this on a public forum about not declaring some income to the IRS probably not the smartest move....


----------



## Tx Jim

JD3430 said:


> I'll be damned if I feel like I must deposit the cash into a bank account and then during a possible future audit have to explain where all those little deposits came from going back 7 years.


I was thinking one only had to keep financial records for 3 years in case of an audit by IRS.


----------



## JD3430

stack em up said:


> Posting things like this on a public forum about not declaring some income to the IRS probably not the smartest move....


Let's slow this down a bit Pauly and bring the conversation back to a sense of reality.
I DID deposit the $100 in hay money. It's declared income. 
I'm really not worried, and I don't think the government is really worried about selling a small used equipment item on CL for $30, or paying someone from petty cash for a small used equipment item-especially when the seller demands cash. We all use petty cash to buy & sell small items occasionally. I'd really doubt they're worried about those transactions on the main ledger. They go on petty cash vouchers.

$40,000 in a mattress is something I'd NEVER do. I have no idea why he went to such an extreme example. That's crazy. I'd never do the money in a mattress example that hayjosh made.


----------



## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> $40,000 in a mattress is something I'd NEVER do. I have no idea why he went to such an extreme example. That's crazy. I'd never do the money in a mattress example that hayjosh made.


Because you said you would pay for used equipment with cash. And you guys are buying a little bigger equipment than I do.

Even if you're buying something smaller, like say, $3-6000....that's still a lot of cash to keep around and not in the safety of a bank account.


----------



## Aaroncboo

Not only that but the mattress would be lumpy as all get out...


----------



## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Let's slow this down a bit Pauly and bring the conversation back to a sense of reality.
> I DID deposit the $100 in hay money. It's declared income.
> I'm really not worried, and I don't think the government is really worried about selling a small used equipment item on CL for $30, or paying someone from petty cash for a small used equipment item-especially when the seller demands cash. We all use petty cash to buy & sell small items occasionally. I'd really doubt they're worried about those transactions on the main ledger. They go on petty cash vouchers.
> $40,000 in a mattress is something I'd NEVER do. I have no idea why he went to such an extreme example. That's crazy. I'd never do the money in a mattress example that hayjosh made.


If the buyer you sell to declares it as a deduction, you would have to declare that income as I understand it.

My CPA says if someone is going to not declare $100 what's to stop them from not doing it to $1000 or $10,000. I'm not saying you're being fraudulent on taxes, I was just throwing out a cautionary alert.

Every transaction I make goes into the spreadsheet. Let's me know if I'm making money or just pretending to.


----------



## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> Because you said you would pay for used equipment with cash. And you guys are buying a little bigger equipment than I do.
> 
> Even if you're buying something smaller, like say, $3-6000....that's still a lot of cash to keep around and not in the safety of a bank account.


The used equipment I was referring to would be more like used tractor parts, a used chain saw, etc. Used equipment much cheaper than buying new from a dealer.
I never said I paid cash for large pieces of equipment and I wouldn't want to pay cash for large pieces because it would make depreciation more difficult.

Equipment Size was never specified by me, just you. 
Knock it off with the smear campaign and your wild eyed assumptions.


----------



## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> The used equipment I was referring to would be more like used tractor parts, a used chain saw, etc. Used deals are much cheaper than buying new from a dealer.
> I never said I paid cash for large pieces of equipment and I wouldn't want to pay cash for large pieces because it would make depreciation more difficult. Size was never specified.
> Knock it off with the smear campaign and your wild eyed assumptions.


In the case of buying/selling used machinery, size doesn't matter. If the person you sell something to declares an expense you have to declare the income.


----------



## r82230

Aaroncboo said:


> Not only that but the mattress would be lumpy as all get out...


And hard in spots, especially, if there are any rolls of pennies (nickels, dime or quarters even), stuffed in that old mattress.  :lol:

Larry


----------



## swmnhay

Tx Jim said:


> I was thinking one only had to keep financial records for 3 years in case of an audit by IRS.


They can go more then 3 if they want to.The way my accountant explained it if they find something back 3 yrs they will go back another 3.Not my accountant but it explains it pretty good.
https://klasing-associates.com/many-years-can-irs-audit-go-back/


----------



## IH 1586

We are switching accounting firms and during our conversations topics like this came up. I'm big on keeping all and every record. Not a good thing if...

*IF *they know your holding records back further than 7 years they can audit them. In my case I have all records from when my parents farmed back to maybe the late 80's. If I were audited and issues found, *AND* knew I had these records. They *could* audit as far back as they want.

On a different note my cousin got audited couple years ago and had to track down all 1099 recipients from back when his dad owned the business as he did not do the paper work properly.


----------



## JD3430

stack em up said:


> In the case of buying/selling used machinery, size doesn't matter. If the person you sell something to declares an expense you have to declare the income.


"IF"

Most people don't declare small cash items, Pauly. If they get audited and the IRS wants to come after me IF I sell them a $10 wrench, have at it.

There'd be 10's of millions more people in tax trouble than there are now.


----------



## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> "IF"
> Most people don't declare small cash items, Pauly. If they get audited and the IRS wants to come after me IF I sell them a $10 wrench, have at it.
> 
> There'd be 10's of millions more people in tax trouble than there are now.


Not if they're doing the right way they wouldn't....


----------



## JD3430

stack em up said:


> Not if they're doing the right way they wouldn't....


Another "if", but reality is, most don't.


----------



## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> The used equipment I was referring to would be more like used tractor parts, a used chain saw, etc. Used equipment much cheaper than buying new from a dealer.
> I never said I paid cash for large pieces of equipment and I wouldn't want to pay cash for large pieces because it would make depreciation more difficult.
> 
> Equipment Size was never specified by me, just you.
> Knock it off with the smear campaign and your wild eyed assumptions.


When you said used equipment I just assumed actual equipment, not parts, etc. I'm not smearing you. I don't understand what I did that was so offensive.


----------



## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Another "if", but reality is, most don't.


Any CPA worth their salt is going to make you keep track of finances down to the dime. When/if there is an audit, their ass is on the line too!


----------



## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> When you said used equipment I just *assumed* actual equipment, not parts, etc. I'm not smearing you. I don't understand what I did that was so offensive.


Didn't specify big or small..., you did. You took it to the "$40,000 in a mattress" and the "Even if you're buying something smaller, like say, $3-6000....that's still a lot of cash to keep around and not in the safety of a bank..." 
So right away, you have me of paying $3-6,000 cash for equipment in a forum, when I never have done anything like that. 
Yes, that's offensive, Hayjosh.

See what happens when you assume??


----------



## Aaroncboo

I think what HayJosh is saying is that compared to the efficiency of taking a picture of a check and depositing on your phone or an electronic transfer through a bank app, taking cash to the bank to physically deposit can take valuable time away if your bank is 15-20 minutes or more away. Unless you use that lumpy coin roll filled mattress that we all hate as your quick deposit. In that sense it is a hassle comparatively.


----------



## JD3430

Aaroncboo said:


> I think what HayJosh is saying is that compared to the efficiency of taking a picture of a check and depositing on your phone or an electronic transfer through a bank app, taking cash to the bank to physically deposit can take valuable time away if your bank is 15-20 minutes or more away. Unless you use that lumpy coin roll filled mattress that we all hate as your quick deposit. In that sense it is a hassle comparatively.


That part I agree with, and that's what I do, but when customers start calling me about holding checks because they don't have enough money to cover a $100 of hay, I don't think it's out of line to say I need cash, then deposit that cash into the bank to be sure I'm not being taken advantage of


----------



## Aaroncboo

I can understand that.


----------



## BWfarms

How about those Horsey People?


----------



## Aaroncboo

Yes they're a interesting breed... Lol


----------



## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> Didn't specify big or small..., you did. You took it to the "$40,000 in a mattress" and the "Even if you're buying something smaller, like say, $3-6000....that's still a lot of cash to keep around and not in the safety of a bank..."
> So right away, you have me of paying $3-6,000 cash for equipment in a forum, when I never have done anything like that.
> Yes, that's offensive, Hayjosh.
> 
> See what happens when you assume??


Is it illegal to pay cash for equipment or something? Why is that offensive? I'm lost and really ignorant to something here.

If you think I'm accusing you of doing something illegal, that wasn't my intention. The original comment was just about the convenience or inconvenience of keeping cash (as in literal bills of money) around. That's all and nothing more, no harm intended.


----------



## stack em up

I’m surprised someone in this thread can get anywhere on a bicycle as much as they backpedal.


----------



## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> Is it illegal to pay cash for equipment or something? Why is that offensive? I'm lost and really ignorant to something here.
> 
> If you think I'm accusing you of doing something illegal, that wasn't my intention. The original comment was just about the convenience or inconvenience of keeping cash (as in literal bills of money) around. That's all and nothing more, no harm intended.


Nope nothing illegal at all.
Ok we're good then. I didn't like the tone being taken where petty cash purchases turn to wild assumptions of hoarding $40,000 cash or paying for big items with cash when that would make accounting more difficult. 
Although a seller demanding I pay with cash is legal, I would need a receipt. If I'm selling a small piece of equipment and the seller wants to pay cash, there's not much I can do. Small stuff replenishes petty cash. Big stuff gets deposited. Wouldn't want a check for $30 anyway because checks can bounce and there's little recourse as I have found out the hard way in the past


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## stack em up

I'll just leave this here, it's good reading. Maybe help some people become more informed as to tax laws....

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p583


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## r82230

stack em up said:


> I'll just leave this here, it's good reading. Maybe help some people become more informed as to tax laws....
> 
> https://www.irs.gov/publications/p583


This is my 'go to source' for tax question, might as well get it from where you have to send the $$$$.

Maybe now, we can get back to the regular scheduled programing and some popcorn. 

Larry


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## BWfarms

r82230 said:


> Maybe now, we can get back to the regular scheduled programing and some popcorn.
> 
> Larry


I don't like long commercials, I think I'll DVR this thread.


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## Hayjosh

r82230 said:


> This is my 'go to source' for tax question, might as well get it from where you have to send the $$$$.
> 
> Maybe now, we can get back to the regular scheduled programing and some popcorn.
> 
> Larry


No, the popcorn was already out. It goes away now. It gets left in the seat


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## VA Haymaker

Now that first cut is in the barn, might as well get started on 2020 crazy horse customer true life experiences...

Customer says - want some hay. I says - here is the address. Customer says, oh no I didn't realize you were that far away. I says, OK no problem.

In the mean time, rain is continuous and much wet hay...

Couple weeks later...

Same customer says, talked to the vet and my horse with COPD - I might not be able to find mold/dust free hay, can I buy hay. I says yes, let me know an ETA and here is the price. Customer says, oh, didn't realize Sunday is Father's Day weekend, don't want to bother you. I says - not a problem, come on. Customer says, well, I think I could get a small load, but don't want to stiff my local supplier. Maybe next year I can get a large load of hay. Let me know when the ground is firm to your barn and I'll come for a small horse trailer load. I says OK.

Why does my inner-self feel a huge price increase coming for this customer, assuming they ever come at all..


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## DSLinc1017

leeave96 said:


> Now that first cut is in the barn, might as well get started on 2020 crazy horse customer true life experiences...
> Customer says - want some hay. I says - here is the address. Customer says, oh no I didn't realize you were that far away. I says, OK no problem.
> In the mean time, rain is continuous and much wet hay...
> Couple weeks later...
> Same customer says, talked to the vet and my horse with COPD - I might not be able to find mold/dust free hay, can I buy hay. I says yes, let me know an ETA and here is the price. Customer says, oh, didn't realize Sunday is Father's Day weekend, don't want to bother you. I says - not a problem, come on. Customer says, well, I think I could get a small load, but don't want to stiff my local supplier. Maybe next year I can get a large load of hay. Let me know when the ground is firm to your barn and I'll come for a small horse trailer load. I says OK.
> Why does my inner-self feel a huge price increase coming for this customer, assuming they ever come at all..


It's called the aggravation factor. It always comes into play with those kind of customers! 
It's like the off the wagon price is less expensive then when it's in the barn and we have to actually touch the hay..... No it's not the same price as off the wagon! It's not my fault you couldn't come get it off the wagon!


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## BWfarms

It almost has the feeling of 'I hope he (leeave) offers to haul it here for free'.

I don't know why, it just does.


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## swmnhay

Neighbor thinks her daughter needs a pony and that my horse needs a buddy so they should put it with mine.LOL


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## IHCman

That reminds me of a friend of mines wife. His wife is a horse nut. When they moved next to a neighbor that had a small unused pasture next to his yard, They asked the neighbor if they could put their two horses in there. Him being the nice guy that he is let them put their two horses there and didn't charge them anything. Well friends wife figures since she has free pasture she'll go get a couple more horses and put them in the pasture without telling the landowner. Landowner comes home and finds 4 horses in pasture and gets upset. Now friend and wife can't figure out why he is upset and telling them to take their horses out.


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## VA Haymaker

So I have a list of horse customers that wanted to buy hay from me this year. Enough demand that if they all show, I’d be out of hay in a hurry. Over the past few weeks, I’ve pinged each of them with a “just baled”price. With the exception of a few customers, everyone of these goofy horse customers has either came up with an excuse why not to buy or just not replied. Not surprised, nor should these lame customers be when they come back and the price has gone up. I do not suffer BS hay customers - LOL!


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## BWfarms

leeave96 said:


> So I have a list of horse customers that wanted to buy hay from me this year. Enough demand that if they all show, I'd be out of hay in a hurry. Over the past few weeks, I've pinged each of them with a "just baled"price. With the exception of a few customers, everyone of these goofy horse customers has either came up with an excuse why not to buy or just not replied. Not surprised, nor should these lame customers be when they come back and the price has gone up. I do not suffer BS hay customers - LOL!


Kind of like having a lot of friends offer to help get up square bales and when it's time... got excuse after excuse or don't return my calls. I guess they forgot all the times I helped, then they can't figure out why I no longer help them.

One of my friend's wife was mad I charged him gas when I went 300 miles to pick up an atv for him. Despite all the local hauls or repairs I did for free. You learn who not to do things for anymore. His now ex wife is one of them.


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## Ray 54

swmnhay said:


> Neighbor thinks her daughter needs a pony and that my horse needs a buddy so they should put it with mine.LOL


Sound like they found a solution for all the daily expense,just have convince the  rich old farmer. :lol:

I feel for something close to that  and took a pair of old horses for free last year. My grand kids think I as so good getting horses for them to ride 4 or 5 times a year. :lol:


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## swmnhay

Potential horse hay customer who has texted me 10 different times in the last 2 yrs wanted to know if I'd bring 1rd bale to see if they liked it.

Nope if you want 1 bale come and get it!


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## Coondle

sedurbin said:


> *Clipped from Purdue Forage Information By:*
> 
> Mark A. Russell, Department of Animal Sciences and
> Keith D. Johnson, Department of Agronomy
> Cooperative Extension Service
> Purdue University
> West Lafayette, IN 47907


Only one test if the hay is any good!...........Does your horse eat it?

If so, it is good hay. QED


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## Coondle

swmnhay said:


> Potential horse hay customer who has texted me 10 different times in the last 2 yrs wanted to know if I'd bring 1rd bale to see if they liked it.
> 
> Nope if you want 1 bale come and get it!


Remember there is no such thing as a 'free lunch', somebody has to pay. Soooo

To make it attractive for the potential customer to come and buy one bale, an addendum to your answer could be:

"Yes, you can buy one bale to try.

Yes I can deliver.

The delivered all inclusive price is- $xxxx (loaded up to ensure plenty of profit).

For a new customer, my terms are payment cleared through the bank before delivery".

That sorts out the genuine potential customers from those just trying to get something for nothing because they think the prospect of another customer is so enticing for you that you will get so excited that you will give 'em something for nothing.


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## JD3430

I just had a young honey stop by in her fancy Cummins the other day and told me my "hay looks great I want to buy some". Then I reminded her she told me 6 years ago after I delivered her a bale to try, she said "my horses loved it, I will buy every bale you have".

Never heard from her again.

She's so stupid, she forgot.


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## danwi

One bale new customer payment terms are cash. Just tell them you can load that one bale right on the back of their pickup or trailer for them.


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## swmnhay

3 new horse hay customers this fall.

1. I will try a load if I like it I'll get more.Well he has got 2 loads so far.

2. Gets a bale to try to make sure horses will eat it.Calls back and gets 6 more which should last the winter.

3.I bring 3 bales on slippery roads because she was afraid to pull trailer herself and needed hay.Brought her the best 3 rd cutting alfalfa I had.Grass green,no rain.

She texts last night it was to dry.Leaves fall off and they won't eat it.I said they will lick up leaves my horse does.It tests 10%, yea a touch dry but baled with slight dew and leaves are in the bale.

well 2 out of 3 I guess.


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## swmnhay




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## FCF

Never mind that "Crazy Horse Ladies" didn't pass math in school !!! They always understate the cost, even when written on paper. This time by $9,000.


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## swmnhay

Update on hay the crazy horse lady said her horse wouldn't eat.A new dairy customer called and had me bring a load.I asked if he just wanted a load and that I had about 100 bales of that lot available.Well he unloaded it and the last bale he tore apart with bale spear.Didn't even bother getting out and drove back towards the house with skid.I backed up and got out and gave home the bill.He said bring me a load every 2 weeks.


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