# Sweet hay....Bale bags



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The thread on sweet hay got me to thinking. Obviously, hereabouts, it's been real difficult to get any hay mowed because of all the rain. With a couple of exceptions, no one has even done a first cutting yet. A while back, I started a thread with a theme of "mow today/bale tomorrow". And I'm still thinking, so here goes:

A few people here use plastic covers and plastic sleeves on their hay. Nobody makes baleage, no bale wrappers, tubers, etc. even close by.

*But:* Does anybody know of a company that makes a large bag, say 5' diameter by 7'-8' tall? My thinking is that, with help, round bales, done at 25-35% moisture, could be sealed in a plastic bag, kinda like a load of bread. Pick up a bale with tractor forks, helper slides a bag over the bale, bale is stacked, helper "ties" the open end closed.

I'm thinking bales could be stacked outside, 2-3 high, end-to-end, tight side-to-side.

I'd like to get 25-50 bags (depending on costs) and try this. Testing would be open a bale every two weeks or so and see how they keep.

Thoughts?

I know baleage is usually done at 50-60% moisture, but what about lower moisture? Will it keep?

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Biggest problem I see with this idea is your going to have a lot of air left in the bag


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Biggest problem I see with this idea is your going to have a lot of air left in the bag


Yea--I had the same thought, but I wonder how much air is too much? And would flooding the bag with nitrogen just before tying be effective/economical?

Additional thought--my understanding is that it is aerobic bacteria/fungus causes mold and anaerobic causes fermentation--Is this correct?

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Air was the problem ..15 years ago we used bale bags made by agbag, . The bales were basically good With just tiny surface mold and the void area in the bags packed full of mold The hay was ok but health hazard to take bales out of bags.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

endrow said:


> Air was the problem ..15 years ago we used bale bags made by agbag, . The bales were basically good With just tiny surface mold and the void area in the bags packed full of mold The hay was ok but health hazard to take bales out of bags.


Were these the tubes? And what was the health hazard?

Ralph


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I seem to recall an article on single bale bags for silage and they used reverse leaf blower to suck air out. Why would health hazard be worse than wrapped nales?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

SVFHAY said:


> I seem to recall an article on single bale bags for silage and they used reverse leaf blower to suck air out. Why would health hazard be worse than wrapped nales?


More mold would be my guess.

Leafblower would be much faster but I was thinking shop vac.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I've heard of guys spraying the outside of bales with preservative to keep mold from growing in wrapping situations.Useing a hand sprayer.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

My thoughts would be it wouldnt work. To bag bales you have to have a wrapper. 1) to keep the air out, oxygen contact is what causes the mold. 2). For the bales to "insile" they have to be baled at no less than 50% or they will mold. You cant bale them at any less for them to stay good.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

Let me add one thing. You want the bales to ferment. Thats the process that your trying to cause by wrapping the bales "wet" The fermentation process wont take place. Now you may not end up with much mold or you may end up with a whole lot of hay thats wasted. But....even the bales that might be able to be fed that didnt ferment all the way wont have enough feed value/protein to even be worth feeding.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

What about "sweet hay"? What moisture does that get baled at? How tight are the bales wrapped?

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

SVFHAY said:


> I seem to recall an article on single bale bags for silage and they used reverse leaf blower to suck air out. Why would health hazard be worse than wrapped nales?


Back in the mid 90's we put a lot of round bales in silage bags . The bags we bought were always bigger than the bale . We tried to a vac the air out we never got it out . Any void space between the bag and the bale was packed full of mold but that did not mean the hay was moldy the hay was for most parts good we just hated working around the mold . Another problem and the reason most people gave it up . The bags had ruffles here and there a puddle of water about the size of a roll of electrical tape would lay on top of the bale if the water froze it cut the plastic then you had major spoilage. I think it could work we were glad when a wrapper was available.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

we rent a big inline for cereal rye . I have pic of cheap wrapper we bought used.. it has saved the day hundreds of times . Bought it used it paid for itself the 3rd time we used it . we have it quite a few years


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

endrow said:


> we rent a big inline for cereal rye . I have pic of cheap wrapper we bought used.. it has saved the day hundreds of times . Bought it used it paid for itself the 3rd time we used it . we have it quite a few years


So can you wrap 25% moisture bales with a wrapper, or must they be higher moisture content? Once they are wrapped, would they sell for more $ ? 
To me, the hardest part of making hay in this area is making and storing it DRY.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> So can you wrap 25% moisture bales with a wrapper, or must they be higher moisture content? Once they are wrapped, would they sell for more $ ?
> To me, the hardest part of making hay in this area is making and storing it DRY.


We have not tried , I think Bob M has and it was discussed at length not to long ago


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Reading between the lines in this article seems to say that "sweet hay" wouldn't work:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0010.html

Ralph


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The sweet hay concept is relatively new. Hay is cured to @ 20% then baled and wrapped.

http://hayandforage.com/mag/farming_horses_love_sweet

It is different from baleage, which is silage (40% to 60% moisture) made as round bales.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It would be a lot easier for me to make 20-30% bales because of our weather. 
I wonder what the wrapping equipment costs and if there's enough of a market for it here.
IMO, I'm competing with the lowest common denominators around here for hay. It's kind of a race to the bottom if you know what I mean.
I would like to try to specialize in something with my hay. 
Wonder if sweet hay is something worth looking into?


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

JD. You could probably get set up to do individual wrapped bales for $5-10k for a new wrapper. An inline wrapper will run $7-15k used, and about $15-40k new depending on what you want.

The number that I hear are about $3-7/bale just for the plastic to wrap depending on size & number of wraps used.

The market for wrapped bales is usually not very good. Shipping cost will kill you from the weight. It's a very limited local market for that reason. Your buyers would be cattle & dairy guys.Horse people usually wont touch it because of risk of mold. At 25-35% though shipping would be easier.

Ralph.

Do you know what year that bulitin is from? From the number I'm guessing maybe 1995? it seems that some of the points in there are outdated, and incomplete.

I wonder how it would work if you put a heavier rate of silo guard, or similar, on a 30% bale & wrapped right away with more layers of wrap. I wonder if the added "good" bacteria & extra barrier would help the low moisture had be "sweet" instead of "junk".

I'm with you guys though. With the rain evert 2 or 3 days we have had this year I would love to find a cost affective way to put up good hay, wether wet, dry, or "sweet".


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I can sell mulch hay (mushroom hay) all day, every day for $105/ton. 
For good clean dry hay I might be able to get $150/ton.

I guess by the time i bought a wrapper, I'd have to sell a lot of sweet hay bales to pay it off. 
Of course, I have no idea what sweet hay sells for.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Fowllife said:


> Ralph.
> Do you know what year that bulitin is from? From the number I'm guessing maybe 1995? it seems that some of the points in there are outdated, and incomplete.
> 
> I wonder how it would work if you put a heavier rate of silo guard, or similar, on a 30% bale & wrapped right away with more layers of wrap. I wonder if the added "good" bacteria & extra barrier would help the low moisture had be "sweet" instead of "junk".
> ...


Article appears to be from Nov., 1995. There were several similar articles from that time frame, but I didn't find anything more recent.

I was wondering the same thing about lightly applying propionic acid while baling, then wrapping. Acid at 25-30% moisture runs upwards of $12-15/ton or about $6-8/1000# round bale.

But applying acid at 4#/ton (18-22% moisture normally) might be enough to inhibit mold. But how would acid affect the plastic wrapping?

Ralph


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, I bagged maybe 50 bales about 20 years ago. I did not get the air out and honestly did not know what I was doing at all. When I took the wrap off to feed that winter, about half of the bales had turned to mush and the last ones in the tube looked just like the day they were put in. I did what you were talking about using a spear and a hired guy pulling the cover on. I think we did a pretty sloppy job at the time and did not have any good info to go by. I think these days, with all the info we have, we could do a better job but I personally am still thinking of buying a wrapper. Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry to go off topic slightly, but how much higher moisture level hay can you make when you add acid? 
Due to weather conditions, I end up with a lot of high teens-low 20's hay.
Should I be looking into acid application?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Sorry to go off topic slightly, but how much higher moisture level hay can you make when you add acid?
> Due to weather conditions, I end up with a lot of high teens-low 20's hay.
> Should I be looking into acid application?


I once baled about 300 sm squares up to 32%+ and didn't lose a bale, but it took a lot of acid, about 20#/ton.

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, one more question about acid, what does it cost per pound?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> OK, one more question about acid, what does it cost per pound?


$1.00 less in big containers more in small drums


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry I meant $1.00 per pound


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