# Accumulator Vs. NH Balewagon



## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

Can anybody here share some average times for loading and unloading into the barn using an accumulator system? I'm guessing maybe 10 minutes to load a 200 bale load and about 15 minutes to unload and stack in the barn. If I remember right, we used to be able to load our 1010 NH balewagon in about 5 minutes. That worked fine for roadsiding stacks or for a real short haul. Seems to me that pulling 1 or 2 wagons with 200 bales each would be a lot more efficient for any haul over 1/4 mile or so.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Each has it's own advantages. The bale wagon is a one man/lady operation. Granted one man can load with a grapple and do reasonably well. The major advantage of the accumulator is the versatility of places where you can stack hay. A Stack Wagon pull or self propelled is more demanding of the storage facility.

I can put 160 bales an hour in the barn with my 1003 NH Balewagon. That is two trips an hour. I have used a 1010 and my wife used a 1002 which added up to 110 bales a round trip for the two machines. I can put more bales in less time into the barn using the 83 bale NH 1003 machine.

The self propelled can pick up 165 bales and haul them to the barn at 45 mph, on pavement. I understand at least one of these machines has a computer controlled stacking and the stack sits up square not leaning back like the very old NH 1010, or the newer NH 1003 or a more modern NH 1034. With the computer stacking on the self propelled machine you can take hay out of the barn using a grab.

At first look it appears the accumulator system is less costly, but when needing hay wagons or flat bed trailers are priced into the mix I think it is about a wash as for cost per bale to get hay into the barn.

As long as I stay with my limitations I can cut, rake, bale and stack in the barn with no help.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

People tell me if you use a bale wagon you have to bale longer heavier bales, Is their anything to this.
THOMAS


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## ohiohaymakr (Nov 27, 2008)

Bale length varies by model of balewagon ,either 2 bales or 3bales wide. The sides of the balewagon are adjustable also. Bales need to be consistant length and the more solid the bale the better.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

We ran a Hoelscher accumulator for 1 season and there too if the bale length varied more than a couple inches, the 1st table would eat the next bale out of the balecase. I've seen or read where some guys were using a grapple fork to unload an NH balewagon. I suppose it was because the wagon wouldn't tip upin their barn. To me that seems to cancel the real advantage of using a stackwagon - the fast unloading time.


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## hayfarmer (Nov 9, 2008)

I use a 1033 bale wagon (pull type) that holds 104 bales a load. My fields are approximately 3/4 mile from my barn. I average 2.5 loads an hour. When I bale the field next to my barn I can average 2.5 to 3 loads an hour. The major disadvanage with the stack liner is you can not stack the hay on pallets. I have a wooden floor in my barn but have had a mold problem with the bottom bales. I going to try using a preservative this year to see if it stops the mold. With a stack liner I need one tractor and one operator to pick up the hay and stack it in the barn. The problem I see with the accumulator is that it takes 3 tractors and at least two operators to make the system efficient. You also need a lot of room to unload the trailers and stack the hay in a barn. My baler operator never bales more than 200 bales ahead of me. That way if it starts to rain I don't lose more than 100 bales. With two bale wagons or one self-propelled wagon you can keep up with a 575 square baler. My friend has a 1037 bale wagon. When we help each other we can easily stay ahead of a 575 baler thats baling 400 to 450 bales an hour. You can buy a good 1033 for under $10,000 and a real good 1037 for 15,000 to $23,000.


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## gwillie44 (Nov 24, 2008)

Put tar paper down before you drop your stack of bales. This will stop moisture from coming up through the floor.


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## dennis (Jun 3, 2008)

Out west (wa state) we use the newer nh balewagons mostly 2-wide (88 bales) (44" X 16" X 18")(100 # bales) or bale wagons that stack 3-string bales.
We use 1068 bale wagon and 3 580 nh balers. We hire a tarping co. to completly tarp our hay-top-bottom-sides for $9+ a ton. hay will look as good coming out as when it was stacked. The tarping crew also peaks the top.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We chose to go with the accumulators over balewagons due to distance. Farthest hay fields are 15 miles from home. Our goal is not necessarily to get the hay all loaded and stacked in the barn the same day. We try to bale 3,000 bales a day and get it all on wheels. This does require some investment in wagons and trailers. Then it all goes home. Sometimes it gets unloaded that night and sometimes the next morning or a combination of the two.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Do you get any dust or discoloration on your bottom layer using the tar paper?


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## ButchAutomatic (Jun 4, 2008)

We have a BW38 self propelled, when roadsiding hay 3 1/2 loads hour ( 160 bale loads ). We have hay fields up to 10 miles from the barns, then we use a stack retriver to get down the roads Fast 70 MPH. I think the accumulator method you have more wheel traffic on the hay field.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

We've had both the 1089 and the BW 38 and both of them will handle 36 inch bales that weigh about 45 lbs. That is not a long OR heavy bale. That's a nice bale, or at least I think so. Granted, heavier bales work MUCH better on the machine, but you gotta make what the customers will buy. And a PT balewagon will more easily work with 36 inch bales, and I think they'll even go smaller.... say 34 inches. HOWEVER, the lenght of the bales HAS to be consistent..... Too many short bales gives a crappy stack, too many long bales gives the operator lots of practice trying to make the bales fit in the machine. True, the sides are adjustable, BUT it takes about an hour to make all the changes, and it makes very little sense to change the machine when it's easier to change the balers..... The key is the bales - they'll either make the day terrible or average...

1 Sp wagon will outrun a 575, if the haul is under 3 miles. 2 575's will stay ahead of an SP wagon.

Rodney


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## ohiohaymakr (Nov 27, 2008)

We use plastic as moisture barrier,than 3-4 inches gravel covered with 1/2 inch conveyor belting. Use loose straw under hay to prevent molding


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## VA-Hay (Oct 16, 2009)

I tried using a NH 1033 Stack Liner balewagaon in 2008. It can really pick the hay up fast. I bale alfalfa and orchard grass. The alfalfa is heavy and the bale wagon had no problems handling these bales. The orchard is lighter and hay baled earlier in the day is heavier and has no problems being picked up by the bale wagon. Later in the day, the orchard grass get lighter and can be difficult for that bale wagon to pick up. The pickup head just flips it all around and it doesn't fall nicely onto the 1st table of the balewagon.

My lessons learned are these. My hay farm is located in Central VA. There we have many small and odd shaped fields and hills. The bale wagon works best on long straight rows. It got so frustrating trying to pick up hay in field corners with the balewagon that I finally gave up and just picked those bales up by hand. On the hills, it's best to pickup traveling up hill. That way the the 1st and 2nd beds of the bale wagon are throwing hay down hill rather than up hill and works best. To use a bale wagon in our area it's important to mow and rake so you don't have turns, only straight rows to pickup. The balewagon just can't handle the corners.

Also, the wagon needs 14 - 15 feet of clearance to raise up and unload a 7 bale high stack. One of my barns is about 13.5 ft high and I had to empty the stack at the front of the barn and hire high school football players to move the hay inside and stack it. This really slows things down and still costs money for the help, which I've been paying all along. My hope for the bale wagon was to use less help.

In 2009 I have returned to pulling wagons behind the baler and I have two men on the wagon stacking. Wagons are unloaded using a bale grab on my front end loader. This works well in my barns. And in my new barn I can stack bales 10 high with the loader, that's 3 bales higher than with the balewagon.

My wagons are 20ft long and to go as fast as my Hesston 4570 baler will bale, I need 3 men on the wagons. But at that speed, it's difficult for the men to keep their balance and handle the hay. So I'm loosing a lot of time pulling the wagons. I'm hoping to buy an accumulator to pull behind the baler for 2010 haying. This should be faster, allowing me to use the full speed of the baler. This plan requires 3 tractors and 3 men working full time. One tractor baling, one loading and pulling wagons to the barn, and one unloading. It's easier for me to hire retired equipment operators to drive tractors than it is to find young labor to stack hay by hand. I'll have to wait to see how things go if I get the accumulator.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

dennis said:


> Out west (wa state) we use the newer nh balewagons mostly 2-wide (88 bales) (44" X 16" X 18")(100 # bales) or bale wagons that stack 3-string bales.
> We use 1068 bale wagon and 3 580 nh balers. We hire a tarping co. to completly tarp our hay-top-bottom-sides for $9+ a ton. hay will look as good coming out as when it was stacked. The tarping crew also peaks the top.


Dennis, do you use Inland Tarp to do your tarping? Also do you run corrugations or do you use a sprinkling system? In Wyoming the corrugations slow my baling and stacking a lot. Interesting you use the 16 by 18 bales instead of the 14 by 18. Female horse people around here don't like to lift those heavier bales.


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## okhillbilly (Jun 18, 2009)

As far are costs are concerned the accumulator system is a whole lot cheaper. A NH stacker new cost around $150,000 (priced in 2000).Plus a barn tall enough to unload under. An 10 bale accumulator and grapple will run under $20,000. Add a couple of 25 foot gooseneck trailers with the capacity to haul 232 bales 6 high stack with a 8 bale tie stack for around $4000 each. Add a truck or two($40,000) to pull the trailers that everybody should have anyway and add a tractor for $25,000 your still under the cost of a new stacker. And you can unload into a standard barn with 10-12 foot walls. Prices for equipment will vary on what each individual wants or has or weather your talking new or used. If your going to look at what is cheeper one piece of equipment used for moving hay or 7 pieces of equipment half of you can use on other jobs around your farm. Just my opinion.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

VA-HAY,
You can add or remove metal blocks on table 1 of the NH 1033 stack wagon to load on hills and slants.

I do have to physically pick up bales in the corners.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

If I had to pick up all the bales by hand in corners or slants, I'd pick all of them up by hand. An accumulator will work better on hills, and depending on how many bales a guy handles an accumulator is the way to go, and a stackwagon would be over kill. I have no experiece with the pull type models, but I can see that long straight fields would be best of them, as I would expect that they are awkward to maneuver, both in the field, and at the stack. An SP will easily pick bales in corners, is very easily maneuverable, but then you run into the 17ft unloading height, it's really big on the roads around here, and it's heavy.

Rodney


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

The SPs are faster. Travel on the road fast also. However, they do have an exhaust pipe and up here we have had several hay stack fires where hay has gotten near the exhaust pipe. I've never used one.


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## dennis (Jun 3, 2008)

nwfarmer said:


> Dennis, do you use Inland Tarp to do your tarping? Also do you run corrugations or do you use a sprinkling system? In Wyoming the corrugations slow my baling and stacking a lot. Interesting you use the 16 by 18 bales instead of the 14 by 18. Female horse people around here don't like to lift those heavier bales.


We have Tarp-It Inc. do our tarping, and I highly recommend there work. They will usually have the stack tarpped within 24 hours after calling them.
We irrigate with sprinklers either circles or wheellines which is much easier on equipment then corrugations. 
We bale 16 x 18 bales because you can't get the truckers to haul the smaller bales. Most of our hay sales are 200 to 300 miles from our ranch. The ladys don't like it but have learned to deal with it.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

nwfarmer.. you said the SP's have caught hay on fire because of the exhaust..... Do you know if it was hay that was just on the wagon, or hay that had gotten against the pipe, or even hay that was along side of the wagon when it unloaded??? I'd never heard of that, I'm real curious.

Rodney


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

Nice bales are a MUST to make a NH stacker feed right,, trip right, and stack right. We always baled 16x18x36, and ended up with the undesirable 70-80 pound bale. The advantage for us with the stackers was to clear circles fast and get the water turned back on. You get a good run of weather running 3 little squares and you can easily lay 5000-10,000 bales on the ground a night. As far as flat circles and stacking on the edge of a field, you can't beat a SP stacker. If you are planning on moving hay down the road very far, a stacker starts to lose it's advantages. Tight fields can be tricky with a stacker, but with nice solid bales there are many "chute tricks" to pick bales up that are sitting at every angle. Corrugated or hilly fields just plain suck for a stacker.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

I can appreciate corrugations being hard on equipment. We don't transport hay just sell it off the farm. They load. Sprinklers are pricey to install them now. We use gated pipe and some syphone tubes.

We had relatives that farmed over in Warden until they moved last year. Cousin was the doctor that ran WL in Warden and their alfalfa propagation program. I don't think they are in business anymore. He then worked at the extention office at UW inspecting alfalfa for farmers in the area. Moved to tornado alley in Nebraska. Bet that is fun.


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

HALLSHAY said:


> Nice bales are a MUST to make a NH stacker feed right,, trip right, and stack right. We always baled 16x18x36, and ended up with the undesirable 70-80 pound bale. The advantage for us with the stackers was to clear circles fast and get the water turned back on. You get a good run of weather running 3 little squares and you can easily lay 5000-10,000 bales on the ground a night. As far as flat circles and stacking on the edge of a field, you can't beat a SP stacker. If you are planning on moving hay down the road very far, a stacker starts to lose it's advantages. Tight fields can be tricky with a stacker, but with nice solid bales there are many "chute tricks" to pick bales up that are sitting at every angle. Corrugated or hilly fields just plain suck for a stacker.


Hitting a bale at just the right angle to quarter turn it keeps me from being bored in the field. I can pick up bales with the NH 1033 at a little over 4 mph. The corrugations slows me at the ends when I turn around.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

There are some tricks to stacking in shorter barns. Dumping prior to backing in, but you must be careful not to brake the machine because it can be hard on a SP Wagon, or just leave some off the top, kind of like the picture (This is what I use to start a new pile in the open but similar stacks can work in shot barns). If you don't clean them they will go up in flames. I clean mine every night with a leaf blower, works fast and is good for bailers to.







Hillsides are dangerous if not worked right and can cause springs to brake (road of hard nocks )







. Bale wagons are good and fast if you have the time and willingness to learn them, but they are a lot different than driving a bailer, they must be "operated" and not driven if that makes since. A good working used one is not that expensive also and can be an easy way to make some money for hire if there is a market for it.... In the right conditions 400 bales a hour stacked is not out of line with a good operator.


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## BrianS (Aug 19, 2009)

I started with a Bale Caddie 12 bale accumulator (these are good units) and bale grab but did not like handling the bales twice. Once to put on the gooseneck, once to take off in the hay yard. I think an accumulator would be the way to go if you were going directly on a truck out of the field. But ours all goes to the hay yard. So found a pull-type bale wagon and very happy with it. Funny story about that - the bale wagon was bought new when the owner was in high school and he is now about 50 years old! Told him if he would bring it out and he could teach me to use it I would take it. It had been sitting for about 20 years. He brought it out, we greased it up and it worked great. It was only $4500. I did replace a couple of the 40 year old hoses and a chain. I am in awe that something with that many moving parts could work that well. NH made some good machinery. My bale caddie is for sale.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

I agree. Just looking at them, a person would not think they would work....


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

I bought a new NH 1049 160 bales in1975
Nice piece of equipment
Maximum hay capabilities is 3 loads or 480 bales per hour if the barn is 1/4 mile from the field or 1 load per hour if the barn is 12 miles away
I tweaked the pickup lever to where it (the bale pickup) ran all the time so I didn't have to push the lever every time i wanted a bale to load on the first table. But I would have to disngage it (just by tapping it) (when the first table was up loading the 3 bales on the second table) and the first table was wanting to load a bale on the first table

Easy fix: I extended the notch on the control lever cowling about 2-3 inches (with a hacksaw) plasma cutter would have been better but they weren't available then)so that I could lock the lever forward so that the pickup unit ran all the time. Just push it forward to the new extended notched position tweak the lever positioning underneath the operators platform and I could an entire load without touching that lever (if I didn't allow a bale to be picked up while the first table was loading the second table

The funny part is that I just thought it was a factory mess up to have to push that lever forward every time I wanted to load a bale on the first table so I fixed it TO RUN ALL THE TIME BUT JUST TAP IT TO THE SIDE TO DISENGAGE IT. 
I later talked to a neighbor that had 2 1049'S of them and we were discussing loading them and how fast it could be done, he told me how it was supposed to work. I was perplexed and went home an read the book and sure enough I WAS SUPPOSED TO PUSH THE LEVER EVERY TIME TO LOAD A BALE!

Food for thought


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

Without a doubt a balewagon was made for heavier bales. If you try to gather 60 lb. bales or under you're in for a frustrating day. The lighter bales will most of the time not trip the rods. On real hot days the lighter bales will not stay in place when flipped from deck one to deck two. I grow real good horse hay and it has to be in 60 to 65 lb bales because that's what my market calls for. If I had to do it all over again I would have stayed with the accumulators. Just an Oregon thought.


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

Bale length for NH bale wagons is extremely important especially when there are 11-13 flakes per bale. Bales can vary 4" per bale and take that times 3 is a foot, put those bales in the same first table at the same time and now the operator is not a happy or pleasant ---- We will still call him just the not-so-happy operator.
The second table can't put them on the load table because that row is too wide to go between the load table side guides
Here is what I did
JD 346 baler
on top of the bale chamber where the bales appear I took a piece of 1"x 1/8 float metal about a foot long
Drill a 3/8" of so sized hole in the 1' piece of flat metal about 5" from one end
This hole is off center on the flat metal
Poke a bolt in the hole and hold up the flat metal so it can sway like a pendulum
The heavy end is pointed down
I made a telescoping or adjustable length bracket out of some tubing
Attached the outside tube to the to of the bale case on the drivers side where the bale appears out the back
and I welded the 3/8 bolt to the smaller telescoping tube with flat bar
To make this simple to exlain
I position the now vertical swinging (pendulum) flat bar from front to back so that whrn the needles tie the bale the bar is touched by the bale coming out of the bale chamber and forces the pendulum to go from vertical to horizontal position imediately.
This can be seen from the operator plaform

When the needles come up and tha bale ties the flat metal pivots to horizontal position at the same time
Bale length consistency will improve
Baler person will *slow down* to make baler have thinner flakes
more consistent length bales (which is the 95% cause of inconsistent bale length)
Nice looking loads
Happy bale wagon operator
Baler person survived 1 more day without being beat beyond recognition by the bale hauler

The Key is baling speed
(9) 4" thick flakes is 36" ; (10) 4" flakes is 40"; (11) 4" flakes is 44"
(14) 2.5" flakes is 35"; (15) 2.5" flakes is 37.5"; (16) 2.5" flakes is 40" much more consistency
get more help at Washburn Company & hayspear.com hayspear.com Homepage Custom attachments for skidsteers & hay email me at 
[email protected]
Thanks
Alan Washburn


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Alan,

Do you have a picture of this?


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

bugscuz
You're right about the heavier bales vs lighter bales
sometimes oiling and keeping moving trip mechanisms lubricated, like pivot points and thing that rub metal to metal on the trip linkages etc will help a lot
If your bales consistently slide to far because tables are too slick, spray paint the slick platforms with a paint that dries slowly rather than instantly. then lightly sprinkle some sand on the paint and give it another thin coat of paint. (make your own style sandpaper so to speak)
If it too abrasive or holds too much and needs to be slicker again just sand it a little with a sander and repaint to make it slicker again
When doing tie tiers Another trick is to lift the second high enough so that when the bales are slid back they miss the actuator bar. let the bed back down finish the tie tier.
Second table might trip auto when fully loaded or you might have to put the second table on the load table manually.
At last you didn't have to get off the tractor or wagon to readjust bales (practice makes perfect)
Good luck
Alan
*email [email protected]
*Washburn Company & hayspear.com hayspear.com Homepage Custom attachments for skidsteers & hay


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

hay hauler
Never taken a picture of it but I can tomorrow
a picture is worth a thousand words (and sometimes a book)
Alan


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

> The funny part is that I just thought it was a factory mess up to have to push that lever forward every time I wanted to load a bale on the first table so I fixed it TO RUN ALL THE TIME BUT JUST TAP IT TO THE SIDE TO DISENGAGE IT.
> I later talked to a neighbor that had 2 1049'S of them and we were discussing loading them and how fast it could be done, he told me how it was supposed to work. I was perplexed and went home an read the book and sure enough I WAS SUPPOSED TO PUSH THE LEVER EVERY TIME TO LOAD A BALE!


I am wondering if this would decrease the drive motor and chain life on the pick up?







I always though this is whay that contorl was set up like that.... Maybe it is just for safty though? I really dont know the exact thinking behind it and have wondered this to.... I have noted that i never run it constant though.... I am always playing with it to make the bales do what i want... Holding them while tables cycle so i dont have to stop. I try to run in second at 2000 rpm and it is not the best gear to start in when the machine is loaded so i strive to stay off the clutch....


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

on my pull type 1067 i took the spring out of the mech but found out im pullin the handle back often enough and seem to get caught with the first table alot more often so i put it back in, rather have a sore wrist than listening to myself cuss all day


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

This might help for picking on corners or arcs

Arcs:

*I isolate the arcs in a field and pick them separately. The long side (outside) of the arc I pick to the inside Chute to the center of the arc while the short side (inside) is picked with the cute to the circumference side. This has the effect of opening up your chute travel diameter on the short side.

4 cornered fields:

I will pick from one side for 2 or 3 passes which usually gets me into 4 to 7 rows on that side as I try to pick from 3 rows per pass. In my case a pass is a one way trip down the filed. As i get to the end of the rows I will be looking for bales on the end that are not quite perpendicular to the rows I am taking. On the turn around they will be nudged with either the front tire of the tractor or the tip of the chute. If things go well those bales should be in line with all of the others running on the end of the field. Turn into that end and commence to pick from the end as you did from the first side. Then set up the other side as you pick the end. Do the nest side then the last end. Then back to the first side and so on.

If you have a field with swoops on one or more sides you will probably not be able to pick from more than one row at a time when in the swoops. Use the method for arcs which will mean that you will have to get into the middle of the swoop to clean out a path which allows you to pick that side in isolation. If you are going to pick one row at a time in this type of field then pick in the direction that gives your chute the longest travel arc when picking the swoop.

I have never had it work out where I get the number of bales necessary to give me a full load at the end of the picking. Therefore I do not get too concerned with bales that might not be set up right on the corner. If I have to come back for a clean up round I will get them then. If there are only a few then I just go with a truck or load the 2nd table on the last load. Watch your count. You cannot hit the trip on the 2nd table or all hell will break loose!

As for bale configuration I think that the tightness is more important. Light weight bales are not as much a concern. Size and compactness are. I pick straw which is generally lighter than any hay I make and they are a dream to pick. Hay bales that are short and light but compact pick well. They just wobble a bit on the rack.

If you are making inconsistent bale sizes open up the front of the side a little so you get a funnel effect. As the bales are pushed back they will compress. If you do this then you will need stack poles to stabilize the load when you dump it so it doesn't splay out or fall forward.

The first table trip is a quick adjust to smaller bale lengths. For adjusting the side walls of the rack I usually just move the chute side wall leaving the other in line with the outside edge of the bale on the RHS which is pretty much the edge of the second table or just a little more to the right.

Have owned a 1002, picked with a 1033 and now own a 1034 all pull types. Have picked nice run rectangular large fields to the few acre tear drops or kidney shaped mind screwers. The latter are the ones that keep you open ideas and keep you learning!

Take care


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