# Alfalfa or Alfalfa Orchard mix?



## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

I have an 8 acre piece I plan to seed into hay next month. When I took over the hay ground on the farm 3 years ago it was all in straight alfalfa, straight timothy, and straight brome. All the hay I produce is to be sold. There are two other stands of alfalfa I plan to take out after first cut is taken off so my alfalfa acres are going to shrink for dry hay this season. I'm kicking around trying an alfalfa/orchard mix - on the premise that one or two hay brokers told me it sells well. I've never had any to sell, so not certain about that. Looking for your thoughts on this, and I have the following questions & considerations:

How much difference in yield (tons) could I expect for the season if I switch to a mix vs. straight alfalfa?

Is a mix any easier to dry, or more forgiving in terms of preventing leaf loss?

What ratio do those of you who plant this type of mix typically use?

Thanks!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I've switched everything from straight alfalfa to alf/grass over the yrs.

With a mix it drys better,less leaf shatter,and the bales shed water better then straight alfalfa.

I've used various rates from 1/2 lb - 4lbs of OG with 20 lbs alf seed depending what ratio of grass to alfalfa you want.

Get about 1 ton acre more per yr here with a mix

The last few fields I've seeded I've went to a grass mix instead of straight OG and it yields more esp in mid summer when it gets hot and dry here as the OG can go dormant.It has OG,Ryegrass,Fescue and Festulolium.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

One of those brokers may be my uncle, but I second the opinion of it selling well in the region. You should have an easier time drying the mix as well as fewer pest problems.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Reason number 5 on the mix for me is you let the Alfalfa go into full bloom your drying problems are over it may even dry quicker than you orchardgrass.. now if you let the alfalfa as a clear stand go into full bloom and let it get good and dry you'll have with my grandpa called in pa Dutch, stick hay ... auto type won't do it when I say it in Dutch. But a mixed hay you can let it mature a little longer so it dries down for horse quality and the next will come out perfect.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Dana, I find that life is so much easier with Alf./Orch. mix. I started doing this a while back when swmnhay mentioned to me that the alfalfa dried a lot better mixed with Orchard. And if it is still a tick green and the Orchard grass is dry then you can still bale without any fear. And as mentioned, the dang insects are not nearly as bothersome.

It can be a bit of a challenge to control certain types of weeds when you have both grass and alfalfa. But usually it does not get too bad for a few years before you need to do some heavy duty nuking....or at least here you would find that to be so.

I have cut my straight alfalfa down to just a few acres for the purist. Alfalfa/Orchard grass is my number one seller hands down....and I drilled most of the straight alfalfa last fall with Orchard grass and went about 8 pounds per acre on the drill.It came up great and I am thinking that ratio is about right into an existing alfalfa field.

Regards, Mike


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

Can think of it as bigger harvest window (without saying the trade names). It makes a nice mix.
As long as your market (I suspect wont be a problem) is fine with it I think you'll be pleased.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Vol said:


> Dana, I find that life is so much easier with Alf./Orch. mix. I started doing this a while back when swmnhay mentioned to me that the alfalfa dried a lot better mixed with Orchard. And if it is still a tick green and the Orchard grass is dry then you can still bale without any fear. And as mentioned, the dang insects are not nearly as bothersome.
> 
> It can be a bit of a challenge to control certain types of weeds when you have both grass and alfalfa. But usually it does not get too bad for a few years before you need to do some heavy duty nuking....or at least here you would find that to be so.
> 
> ...


 I thought not all that long ago you indicated you had a fair amount of Roundup Ready clear alfalfa how did you go about transitioning that to a mixed stand. On our farm we have some Roundup Ready Alfalfa that we would like to transition to a mixed stand


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

endrow said:


> I thought not all that long ago you indicated you had a fair amount of Roundup Ready clear alfalfa how did you go about transitioning that to a mixed stand. On our farm we have some Roundup Ready Alfalfa that we would like to transition to a mixed stand


I sprayed gly on the RR alfalfa in October and then drilled it with Orchard grass. It had the least weed pressure what I drilled. One particularly weedy area with quack grass I left pure RR to continue treatment.

Regards, Mike


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Sounds like several good reasons to go with a mix here. Thanks for all the input guys.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

That mix dries and sells well. I am really liking notill rr alfalfa for a season or two and then 6-8 lb. orchard in the fall. I am finding mixed stands from the start difficult to keep weed free.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

SVFHAY said:


> That mix dries and sells well. I am really liking notill rr alfalfa for a season or two and then 6-8 lb. orchard in the fall. I am finding mixed stands from the start difficult to keep weed free.


 I like starting out with RR. I had the same game plan as you an agronomist told me that the inner see the orchardgrass into the Alfalfa it should happen no later that about August 30th the last year that did not happen for me. An agronomist told me he thinks I have a chance of getting it started if I interceded the orchardgrass mid-march into my Roundup Ready Alfalfa stand..


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

endrow said:


> I like starting out with RR. I had the same game plan as you an agronomist told me that the inner see the orchardgrass into the Alfalfa it should happen no later that about August 30th the last year that did not happen for me. An agronomist told me he thinks I have a chance of getting it started if I interceded the orchardgrass mid-march into my Roundup Ready Alfalfa stand..


yeah, August 30 is a pretty hard date here, I would think you have two more weeks there.

Tried some spring orchard into rr alfalfa last year, failure. Wet soils at seeding, trench stayed open. Ideal notill conditions for grass seeding seem rare in spring here, a lot bigger window to work with in August.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Thats all I plant and raise here, OG/alfalfa sells well. Getting harder al the time to move straight alfalfa.

If your area is prone to it, adding OG to alfalfa will also help prevent heaving.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

SVFHAY said:


> That mix dries and sells well. I am really liking notill rr alfalfa for a season or two and then 6-8 lb. orchard in the fall. I am finding mixed stands from the start difficult to keep weed free.


Thanks for this tip. Do you start the alfalfa with anything or just straight? Do you seed a lighter rate knowing you're adding in the orchard? Would starting alfalfa in the spring, then adding orchard in fall of the same year allow enough time to make sure weeds are controlled?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We started at full rate 15 to 18# RR alfalfa. Maybe a lighter rate would be a good idea in anticipation of adding O/G. .. ill try that sometime ...... RR Alfalfa in spring O/G in fall to soon for us ,takes a full year hear to get control . That GLY Spray the following spring puts the icing on the cake.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

I could see the drawback of starting the alfalfa at a lighter rate would be giving weeds more opportunity, but the spray should get em either way. What percentage mix would you estimate you end up with once adding the 6-8 lb or orchard in? Does the orchard eventually crowd out the alfalfa?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I cant answer that,, all the mixed hay we farm was seeded before we started usu ing Round Up REady Alfalfa. . . This Spring will be the first time we will overseed some RR Alfalfa with o/g . At best I can keep you posted


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Rather than rotate out my alfalfa stands that are thinning, do you think I could I no till in orchard grass this spring and get a couple more years out of them?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

paoutdoorsman said:


> Rather than rotate out my alfalfa stands that are thinning, do you think I could I no till in orchard grass this spring and get a couple more years out of them?


Yes


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## ubadawg (Sep 25, 2011)

It's easy to through good money away trying to raise Alfalfa. Not all soil will grow quality Alfalfa trust me. I have heavy clay soil and it just won't grow like you would want . Who and for what livestock will you be selling to is another big question.


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