# Fescue or Orchard Grass in East TN??



## GrnTractor (Feb 22, 2017)

We recently purchased a property that has 8 acres of field that has been cut for hay in years past. Over the years the field has not been fertilized or limed. It is currently fescue. I plan on adding lime and fertilizer according to the soil sample results.

In late summer should I plant fescue or orchard grass. The guy that has been cutting it says orchard grass. Also he says the very best he could do on an agreement is 80/20 even if I lime, fertilize and plant? Does this sound right? Picture below

Thanks!


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

So you put all the money into it and he keeps 80%? He's looking for a sucker, I wouldn't trust him.


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## GrnTractor (Feb 22, 2017)

Thank you! I was at a loss for words when we spoke.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Ditto, BW's comment, hope Karma happens to folks like that. His deal is great only for one party, I wonder how he votes (na, never mind, I think I know how already).

Larry


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

He's harvesting it currently without amendments, fertilizer alone would increase yield. He would essentially get at least what he was currently getting off of the land maybe more and better quality hay. Plus I like how he steered you to the most expensive grass seed. Orchard is not cheap.

On the recommendation of seed. I blend orchard and fescue for my own use, pasture and hay. You may want to consider fencing it and putting 3-4 steers and buy hay. I would still apply the amendments.


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## GrnTractor (Feb 22, 2017)

I have at least one other farmer that might be interested in cutting it. What other avenues are are available to help find someone interested in a reasonable agreement. I guess I could ask the Co-op. What is reasonable? If I guy has to bring his equipment any distance where is the break even for him? Certainly it depends on the quality and quantity of the product. How much is 8 acres of quality hay worth?

Note: I am completely new to this.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Cutting on shares is tricky business. I have the coveted free leases. It's landowners that either want their land farmed and all they ask for is for the land to be improved or its some that just want free mowing. This is a win win situation. If you're looking to have this outcome, follow suit and require him to apply amendments in return.

If you're looking for hay for whatever reason (personal use or sale), there's plenty of options and it boils down to an agreement. You can do the following:

Split costs down the middle and shares are 50/50.
You require him to pay for amendments and you take 20% of hay for the cost of lease.
You could even agree to pay him cash and keep all the hay (your responsibility for amendments).

These numbers are a guideline and not meant to be limited as the only deal. However you are at his mercy when it comes to timing/quality of harvest. If you want to be in complete control, fence it and put livestock on it. It's hard to give a number because rainfall, timing of plant growth, bale density, and other factors take place. To stay conservative, 40 4x5 bales or 600 small square bales first cutting. These are numbers less than I achieve.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I would first run a soil test and see what amendments your 8 acres needed. I would not plant any grass this year if your amendment needs are great. Orchard grass seed is expensive....fescue is much less. I do not think your hay will sell for much more with Orchard grass mixed into it. It would sell for much more if the fescue was killed out and a pure stand of Orchard grass was planted and baled and stored in the dry. Round bales sell poorly in East Tennessee because fescue is mainly grown and many folks store it outside. If you are going to have the hay baled in round bales, I would not go to much expense of growing hay other than getting the land production/amendments right. The vast majority of farmers/hay balers in ETN don't know crap about round baling hay that will not mold or dust....which is a must for good hay sales. Since you have no equipment it is most likely the folks that would bale your hay are mostly cattle farmers who don't care if the hay molds or dusts up. Horse people whom pay a premium for high grade hay do care about the mold and dusting. Get your soil right amendment wise and ease into hay production slowly. Many folks think you can just go out and throw some seed on the ground and it will grow.....not so. You need to get acquainted with the farmers in the area and find out which ones are "agriculturally" educated and which ones are not. If they store their hay outside and do things "because thats the way we always done them", then you need to look elsewhere.

If you just want to get a good stand of grass on your slopes then by all means plant fescue....nothing is tougher, takes traffic abuse better, or is more drought tolerant than Kentucky 31 fescue. Just don't plan on making much money on it.....Remember, round bales sell poorly in East Tennessee for the most part.

Welcome to hay talk and maybe even to East Tennessee....and Go Vols.

Regards, Mike


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## GrnTractor (Feb 22, 2017)

Thank you for all the input. I will at the moment focus on the soil amendments and ease into the rest. I have the ability to mow the property easily myself. I will continue to educate myself and see what opportunities present themselves.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

GrnTractor said:


> Thank you for all the input. I will at the moment focus on the soil amendments and ease into the rest. I have the ability to mow the property easily myself. I will continue to educate myself and see what opportunities present themselves.


That is a great approach. You will succeed with all your feathers intact if you will always remember your last sentence.

Regards, Mike


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Your county agent is also a good place to get education and advice on what needs to be done


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

As far as shares go he should probably be putting on the amendments and get two thirds and you take a third for rent.
Just my opion that and a 1.25 will get you a cup of coffey.
I rent some small hay fields off of a lady one is 6 acres the other is 10 I plant teff on them I give her 50. Dollars a acre per year for the use of it.


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## GrnTractor (Feb 22, 2017)

The local Co-op has been a great help. I don't have any need for hay as I don't have any livestock. Perhaps i could sell my share?

Anyway, I think I am going to take the advice of applying the soil amendments and not plant anything this year.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

If you don't need the hay let him put the amendments on and pay a lease of at least enough to pay the property tax.


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## AlfalfaExpat (Jun 19, 2017)

Vol said:


> I would first run a soil test and see what amendments your 8 acres needed. I would not plant any grass this year if your amendment needs are great. Orchard grass seed is expensive....fescue is much less. I do not think your hay will sell for much more with Orchard grass mixed into it. It would sell for much more if the fescue was killed out and a pure stand of Orchard grass was planted and baled and stored in the dry. Round bales sell poorly in East Tennessee because fescue is mainly grown and many folks store it outside. If you are going to have the hay baled in round bales, I would not go to much expense of growing hay other than getting the land production/amendments right. The vast majority of farmers/hay balers in ETN don't know crap about round baling hay that will not mold or dust....which is a must for good hay sales. Since you have no equipment it is most likely the folks that would bale your hay are mostly cattle farmers who don't care if the hay molds or dusts up. Horse people whom pay a premium for high grade hay do care about the mold and dusting. Get your soil right amendment wise and ease into hay production slowly. Many folks think you can just go out and throw some seed on the ground and it will grow.....not so. You need to get acquainted with the farmers in the area and find out which ones are "agriculturally" educated and which ones are not. If they store their hay outside and do things "because thats the way we always done them" you need to look elsewhere.
> 
> If you just want to get a good stand of grass on your slopes then by all means plant fescue....nothing is tougher, takes traffic abuse better, or is more drought tolerant than Kentucky 31 fescue. Just don't plan on making much money on it.....Remember, round bales sell poorly in East Tennessee for the most part.
> 
> ...


Good post, I got a trip planned this week to Tennessee to see if they have good Alfalfa Hay at that particular farm


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Just a few questions.

You said it is only an 8 acre field. What is your hay needs? If you are purchasing the property for future plans and want to keep it clean I would not make a investment on treatment. If you are leasing the property I do not see the advantage unless you really, really want control of the hay you use. In middle TN contract hay producers are sparce so yes your comment about the distance of transport becomes a much bigger issue considering the low amount of acerage. We do a lot of round roll (4x5) hay in two adjoining counties. We use 2 used cab tractors, a newer NH discbine, V-rake, 19 ft. tedder and a New Vermeer 6640. I could not justify moving the equipment and the operating cost for less than 65 rolls of speced out Quality hay. Doesn't have to be alfafa but I sell a lot of what I do on shares so it has my reputation on it. I will roll almost anything but not on shares. I picutre east TN as a lot of hills and hollows which adds a lot to the dynamic.

If I may ask what specifically are your needs. It will help give an informed answer.


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