# Decisions on a new tractor



## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

I currently have a 98 case mx120 that I'm thinking about trading in, I've had quite a few problems and have narrowed my options down to 2. I've found a 99 jd 7210 with 5500 hrs for 72.5, or I could go the brand new route with a kubota m110 I think they're pretty close to the same hp in the pto, but I'm just not sure how the kubota will run my jd 530 baler, has anyone ever used one for baling? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think a M110 should handle your JD 530 rd baler just fine. I can't envision spending that much $$$$$$$$$ on a 16 yr old tractor. I like my Kubota M7040 for pulling my Vermeer M7030(9') disc cutter. Before I spent $72K on a tractor I seriously consider buying a newer,better,faster rd baler with netwrap & push bar so I wouldn't have to back up to eject a bale..


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's a high price for that 7200, FEL, MFWD,Tranny? Wow.....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

That is WAY high on a 7210....gotta be some discrepancy some where.....with that being said, we are going to see the pre-def, pre-highly electronic tractors get hysterically high. Folks are finding out what a albatross having your shorts jerked up by the manufacturers is like every time a light comes on...and then add the obscene prices for electronic transmission repairs.....this new tractor craze will slow way down.

Now that the crop market is in the tank for a uncertain amount of time, those payments on those 6 figure tractors are pretty unkind.....along with the flashing light R&M.

Regards, Mike


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

Canadian


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

So about the kubota lol, will it pull a baler fairly handily?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> So about the kubota lol, will it pull a baler fairly handily?


Without steep hills I do t thnk it would be a problem......

You are really comparing two different caliber of tractors with these two tractors. The kubota would be fine if farming a relatively small amount of land, the Deere 7210 is a helluva tractor and built for continuous duty, much different tractors and both built for different purposes but either should pull your baler fine.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think you should look for an M126. Not because I own one, but because it's a lot more tractor. A much bigger displacement engine with more torque. 
I bought mine in spring of 2013 with 100 rental hrs on it and a full warranty For mid 60's. No pollution crap. Have 700+ hours on it and no serious complaints. 
I also have an M9540 and it will easily pull a round baler. A 110 will handle your round baler. That's what it was designed for.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I would go for the kubota. They have good programs now. Lots of guys on haytalk dont like the emmision stuff on the new tractors. But I will say I would rather have that stuff on my kubota than my ford truck. The kubota works so much better. I have had my 8560 now for 11 months, just shy of 1000 hours. Put up 2400 round bales with it last summer. I must say that the only problems I have had with it MAY have been operator induced lol. The build quality on the kubota' is excellent.


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

Yea I just wasn't sure the difference I know the 7210 has the heavier duty front end, but both around that 95 horse on the back end


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> Yea I just wasn't sure the difference I know the 7210 has the heavier duty front end, but both around that 95 horse on the back end


That front end ain't the only thing heavier on the Deere by a long shot.....but for that money, I think I would travel south......


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

That's to much for the 7210 but there are better deals to be found here in AB.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> Yea I just wasn't sure the difference I know the 7210 has the heavier duty front end, but both around that 95 horse on the back end


Might be heavier duty, I don't really know, but the Kubota front axle has a bevel gear design with great turn radius and ground clearance and its hermetically sealed to keep dirt out.

Flip a switch and its locked like a detroit locker for more traction.

Flip another switch for "bi-speed" mode and it'll pull you around turns at the end of a windrow tighter than you could ever imagine.

The bigger M's have a lot of nice features built into their front axles.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'd stay away from new for now, much like Vol pointed out, the new stuff can be insanely expensive to repair when one of those silly little lights come on. Not to mention the expense and aggravation of having a new tractor sitting while waiting on a service guy to come out and plug his laptop with $5000 worth of software on it into your brand new tractor.

Used to be rare to see a semi sitting on the side of the road with the hood up, now if I'm driving enough in a week I might see 2 or 3 sitting on the side of the road. All "new" trucks so if tractors have any where near the crap on the engines as the trucks do&#8230;.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Just curious, what problems have you had with your MX120? I run a couple of MX's myself.


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

All front end issues from planetaries going to case mechanics putting bearings in wrong then wrecking planetaries again, wiring issues, hydraulic issues, running hotter than average


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm looking for something newish, that has warranty but none of that urea, exhaust crap. Something that can handle round bales (stacking etc) feeding bunks and can handle a baler (only about 500 bales yearly) without having to dump 5000 or 10000 into it every year


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Then buy a 7x10 series Deere I average about $2000/ year including tires. They are great tractors. I have put over 20,000 hrs on them since i bought my 1st one.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

carcajou said:


> Then buy a 7x10 series Deere I average about $2000/ year including tires. They are great tractors. I have put over 20,000 hrs on them since i bought my 1st one.


I agree, they ain't gonna be "under warranty" but they are very reliable machines. You're just looking in the wrong places......how about a JD 64x0, fantastic haying tractors, minimal electronics, and will do what you need to do....starting at around 25k-35k USD get the power quad tranny......


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> All front end issues from planetaries going to case mechanics putting bearings in wrong then wrecking planetaries again, wiring issues, hydraulic issues, running hotter than average


Failure of CIH MX120 sounds to me as more fault in the "grease monkeys" that attempted to repair it than the tractors fault. If you only bale 500 rd bales and feed some cattle I think I could GET ER DONE with a tractor that cost a lot less than $72,000. I know I can bale a lot more than 500 rd bales per yr with a tractor I bought in '93 that has nearly 11,000 hrs on the hour meter.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> Failure of CIH MX120 sounds to me as more fault in the "grease monkeys" that attempted to repair it than the tractors fault. If you only bale 500 rd bales and feed some cattle I think I could GET ER DONE with a tractor that cost a lot less than $72,000. I know I can bale a lot more than 500 rd bales per yr with a tractor I bought in '93 that has nearly 11,000 hrs on the hour meter.


I bale well over a thousand round bales a year with a tractor I paid 12K for, just had to fix the A/C on it as whoever serviced it before never changed the receiver/dryer and the sack of desiccant ruptured spreading BB's of the stuff thru the system. Other than that has ran for years with no other problems.


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

No and I completely agree Jim but, you know that line that gets crossed when you've just had enough? I'm pretty much at that point lol. Some of you guys don't get the dollar change I'm thinking lol ever since the U.S. Dollar jumped and ours dropped tractor prices are huge right now, the best deal I've found is a 95 7200 for 55k 4000 hrs


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

And what I'm trying to say I guess is why pay that much for a 20 year old 95 horse when for the same price you can get something new same hp in a different color and warranty


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> And what I'm trying to say I guess is why pay that much for a 20 year old 95 horse when for the same price you can get something new same hp in a different color and warranty


I think a lot of people ask that same question.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

I have a Kubota M120 and a John Deere 6430. Very similar hp tractors on paper and both set up alike. In reality the John Deere performs like it has a lot more horse power.

The Kubota M120 handles my round baler fine until it needs to pull a hill. Then it really bogs down. Thankfully it has a power shift because I have to drop gears. The Deere 6430 does not blink twice at the same hills, seems like it has an extra 15 - 20 hP vs. the Kubota. A loaned Case IH with similar hp rating performed much the same as the 6430.

Leads me to believe that Kubotas perform at less than their rated horsepower. A belief that matches with Kubotas reputation in this area.

Makes me think that a JD 7210 and a Kubota M110 are "apples and oranges".


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JMT said:


> I have a Kubota M120 and a John Deere 6430. Very similar hp tractors on paper and both set up alike. In reality the John Deere performs like it has a lot more horse power.
> The Kubota M120 handles my round baler fine until it needs to pull a hill. Then it really bogs down. Thankfully it has a power shift because I have to drop gears. The Deere 6430 does not blink twice at the same hills, seems like it has an extra 15 - 20 hP vs. the Kubota. A loaned Case IH with similar hp rating performed much the same as the 6430.
> Leads me to believe that Kubotas perform at less than their rated horsepower. A belief that matches with Kubotas reputation in this area.
> Makes me think that a JD 7210 and a Kubota M110 are "apples and oranges".


Well actually, the tractor data tests show the Deere as putting out 13 more PTO HP than the Kubota. So it would be easy to see why you make that observation.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/001/2/4/1245-kubota-m120.html
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/006/7/7/6773-john-deere-6430-premium.html

Might also be worth noting the Kubota costs about $10,000 less and the M-120 production was 2000-2004 and the Deere was produced 2007-2012.. Almost all newer tractors and trucks have more power and are more efficient as they become more modern.
Just want to give the Kubota a fair shake against the Deere.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Well actually, the tractor data tests show the Deere as putting out 13 more PTO HP than the Kubota. So it would be easy to see why you make that observation. http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/001/2/4/1245-kubota-m120.htmlhttp://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/006/7/7/6773-john-deere-6430-premium.html
> Might also be worth noting the Kubota costs about $10,000 less and the M-120 production was 2000-2004 and the Deere was produced 2007-2012.. Almost all newer tractors and trucks have more power and are more efficient as they become more modern.
> Just want to give the Kubota a fair shake against the Deere.


My JD 6430 is a standard model not a premium. I think the standard is very similar to the M120.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/4/1/3414-john-deere-6430.html

I did not mean to give the Kubota an unfair shake. There are a lot of things I like better about the M120. Granted the 6430 is 8 years newer and that may add to its performance, but that does not change the fact that the M120 struggles with the hills. Something that a "100 hp" tractor pulling a baler should not.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

JMT said:


> I have a Kubota M120 and a John Deere 6430. Very similar hp tractors on paper and both set up alike. In reality the John Deere performs like it has a lot more horse power.
> 
> The Kubota M120 handles my round baler fine until it needs to pull a hill. Then it really bogs down. Thankfully it has a power shift because I have to drop gears. The Deere 6430 does not blink twice at the same hills, seems like it has an extra 15 - 20 hP vs. the Kubota. A loaned Case IH with similar hp rating performed much the same as the 6430.
> 
> ...


It can be where the torque range is. I have a JD 2355 and JD 4040. Put either of those on the tedder and set your rpm's you can run all day with out making adjustments. Put the NH TD95D on the tedder and every hill you go up got to step on the foot throttle to kep rpm's the same. go down the hill's and you got to back off the throttle to keep the rpm's the same. Run the NH wide open you would not have the issue at all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JMT said:


> My JD 6430 is a standard model not a premium. I think the standard is very similar to the M120.
> 
> http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/4/1/3414-john-deere-6430.html
> 
> I did not mean to give the Kubota an unfair shake. There are a lot of things I like better about the M120. Granted the 6430 is 8 years newer and that may add to its performance, but that does not change the fact that the M120 struggles with the hills. Something that a "100 hp" tractor pulling a baler should not.


I would never buy or rate a tractors performance by engine HP. I always go by PTO HP. The Deere is 5-10 years newer model, is rated for 10-15 more PTO HP and costs over $10,000 more.

If you want to spend less and get more tractor than a 6430, it would be more comparable if you used a Kubota M126X or M135X. Then Kubota would be in a comparable build year, give as much or more power and cost considerably less $ than Deere.

Comparing an M-120 to a 6430 is like comparing a 2000 7.3L Ford Powerstroke to a 2010 Dodge 6.7L Cummins. Its not really a fair contest.

Also, dont get me wrong, I like Deere better than other brands, but on my shoestring budget I have to buy "inferior" brands so I have $ left over for attachments! LOL

I also agree with you that Deere tends to under rate their tractors more than Kubota does.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> And what I'm trying to say I guess is why pay that much for a 20 year old 95 horse when for the same price you can get something new same hp in a different color and warranty


There is a reason why those Deere's bring so much money and it ain't because of the green paint, well....perhaps a little, and it ain't because people just want to throw money away. Although I agree, that seems way high, but again I have no idea the exchange. The kubota is a nice tractor and would probably do all you want it to do and more...freeing up dollars on implements and such. But to compare those tractors the Deere is a much more robust machine, with better build quality and apparently a much higher resell.....something to take into account when purchasing, if it comes back to you.......


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I've been balling with a Kubota 8540 pulling a NH 7060ss for some years now and I've got big hills. Same tractor pulls a small square baler with a full wagon. Yes I have to down shift a few times but the Kubota does just fine. I would say your options are wide open even with a few less ponies under the hood, with a lot less cash out of your pocket. 
.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

DSL When did you pick up the Case? Thoughts so far?


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## Solberglandandcattle (Apr 28, 2015)

Thinkin I'm going to talk them down to 60s, going to call some dealerships around and see what they would sell the same machine for, and see if I can get a decent idea, I know that I really would like to jump into a Deere and I can't really fathom spending 90k on something like a kubota 120 or 135 to match my case mx120. I was also kinda looking at mccormicks, anyone ever run one of those?


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> DSL When did you pick up the Case? Thoughts so far?


Last week, so far awesome! Had everything to do with the new discbine. I wish I didn't have to sell the Kubota to help pay for it, I'm sure I will be kicking myself in a few years wishing I had the extra cash.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Solberglandandcattle said:


> Thinkin I'm going to talk them down to 60s, going to call some dealerships around and see what they would sell the same machine for, and see if I can get a decent idea, I know that I really would like to jump into a Deere and I can't really fathom spending 90k on something like a kubota 120 or 135 to match my case mx120. I was also kinda looking at mccormicks, anyone ever run one of those?


I have never run one but I have looked at them, they used to use Perkins engines, a solid performer. The only thing I can say negative is their dealer network is not real broad.....that could be a problem. But the tractors look real nice, kinda light duty looking but uncluttered operator station.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> There is a reason why those Deere's bring so much money and it ain't because of the green paint, well....perhaps a little, and it ain't because people just want to throw money away. Although I agree, that seems way high, but again I have no idea the exchange. The kubota is a nice tractor and would probably do all you want it to do and more...freeing up dollars on implements and such. But to compare those tractors the Deere is a much more robust machine, with better build quality and apparently a much higher resell.....something to take into account when purchasing, if it comes back to you.......


How's this for resale:
Bought 2009 Kubota M7040 with 50 hours in 2010 for $29,500
Sold same tractor with 1300 hours on it in 2015 for $30,000.
So I actually sold it for more than I bought it for. 
I think the older deeres were head and shoulders above others, but the others have caught up quite a bit.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> How's this for resale:
> Bought 2009 Kubota M7040 with 50 hours in 2010 for $29,500
> Sold same tractor with 1300 hours on it in 2015 for $30,000.
> So I actually sold it for more than I bought it for.
> I think the older deeres were head and shoulders above others, but the others have caught up quite a bit.


That's good JD, but certainly not the norm......and yes the "others" have caught up in some regards but they will never be a Deere. I've thought several times about buying the "others" and have in the past owned Massey, Ford New Holland, Case, and Kubota.....all adequate tractors, but none of them compared to the Deere's. Hydraulics are less problematic IMHO with the Deere than any other brand I've owned....and switches, levers, etc are much more solid. I guess that's called "getting what you paid for" but I've never had any real problems out of any of them, as with anything, maintenance is key and a solid servicing dealer......

Btw I bought my last Kubota for 35k and sold it for 29k after three years and 900hrs......that's acceptable to me, can't expect much better than that......


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

When comparing you should also take into the comforts of having to run it all day. I'm for Deere all day but really believe they have one of the best set up in regards to comfort. Everything just seems to be where you want them shifting, hydraulic levers. My NH is the newest tractor and you would think with all the talk about ergonomics that everybody's design should be comfortable. The hydraulic levers are on the floor and to use them you have to lean over to grab them. Very annoying when your round baling all day. Caseih built built extensions for his and my tractor as his were of the same design. Now they are at you finger tips, made a big difference in comfort.

Test drove a new 140 hp Case. Don't remember model. The way the arm rest was setup there was hard plastic that your forearm sat on for shifting and I also believe when using the hydraulics. I had already thought about putting a towel on it so it would be more comfortable.

Just some other things to consider when comparing.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

A thought that my mechanic passed onto me......preface; He worked for John Deere for many years and was very knowledgeable young man. Last fall he was hired away by Kubota for more money and less hours and about the same benefits. He told me this spring while replacing a master cylinder on a 1990 JD....." you know I have been working for Kubota for almost six months and I have YET to split a tractor(but granted I do not see many larger Kubotas). That is pretty amazing statement to me.

He went on to say that " I have not seen a Kubota tractor that the hydraulics did not leak somewhere....even the newer ones leak....and he attributes that to using lower grade hosing and couplings.

Just some thoughts that struck me in our conversations.

Regards, Mike


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Vol said:


> He went on to say that " I have not seen a Kubota tractor that the hydraulics did not leak somewhere....even the newer ones leak....and he attributes that to using lower grade hosing and couplings.
> 
> Regards, Mike


My Kubota M7040 with a Kubota FEL with 949 hrs has no hyd oil leaks


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I've had 3 Kubotas with a combined several thousand hours. Never had a hydraulic leak, either.


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## traden86 (May 16, 2013)

Lots of opinions out there on this brand or that... All I know is this. We have ran Kubota tractors for the last 8 to 10 years, and granted there are some things that I would like to have different, but... We bought a M108X several years ago for 45000 and sold it a 1000 hrs later for 40000. We've since put 2000 hrs on a M135GX with no cost other than maintenance. Not bashing JD at all.. They have some nice tractors.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Whatever do y'all mean, Kubota is designed to fail, just take a look see at this goober:






First off the Kubota in the video is definitely not an M100, it looks like a MX5100 HST to me.

The big kahuna of Deere dealers in this area has bought 3 Kubota's and they move them from dealership to dealership, they have like 24 dealerships now, on Demo Days and Open House Days to show how much better JD is than Kubota. We went to one a few weeks ago and several guys were whispering and saying stuff like, "why are they doing that" and one guy said, "I've been running a Kubota for over 10 years and it's never been back to the shop for anything". Frankly I think it makes Deere look desperate. One model they were comparing was an MX5100 gear drive to I think a 5055D with a cab, that's a pretty unfair comparison if you ask me.

There's red, green and orange here on the farm and all have been great so far. I have yet to go to open house or demo day at a Kubota dealer where they tried to dog a Deere.

My wife and son and my late FIL always looked at it this way, #1: will it get the job done that I want it to get done, #2: is the dealer worth a crap and #3: am I getting good value for the money.


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## traden86 (May 16, 2013)

And on the topic of hydraulic leaks, we've owned 7 different Kubota tractors and never had any hydraulic leaks.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Grateful11 said:


> Whatever do y'all mean, Kubota is designed to fail, just take a look see at this goober:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your right....the guy is a goober....I would not believe anything a moron like him says for, against, or indifferent on any brand. And as far as making Deere look desperate, I do not think this crack pot is a Deere representative so there is no desperation on any manufacturers part.

Regards, Mike


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## traden86 (May 16, 2013)

We've got a neighbor that is rough as [email protected]// on everything, he has a M126X with 7200 hrs on it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

"If JD BRASS" isn't concerned about Kubota's presence in the tractor industry why does JD bother to advertise on a strictly Kubota discussion forum such as "Orange Tractor Talks"?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Tx Jim said:


> "If JD BRASS" isn't concerned about Kubota's presence in the tractor industry why does JD bother to advertise on a strictly Kubota discussion forum such as "Orange Tractor Talks"?


Any sensible business person would always be aware of their direct competition. It would be foolish to disregard.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tx Jim said:


> "If JD BRASS" isn't concerned about Kubota's presence in the tractor industry why does JD bother to advertise on a strictly Kubota discussion forum such as "Orange Tractor Talks"?


Deere is scared to death of Kubota because Kubota is eating away at Deere's bottom line from 125HP down.

About every 6 months local dealer offers to buy my Kubota from me and give me a huge chunk of cash AND 0% financing. They want Kubota owners out of Kubota and into Deere desperately. Its almost pathetic in MY area.

There was a Deere video floating around where they compared my M9540 to a 5101 or something like that. They actually highlighted the floor mats on the Deere being better!! Floormats?? Seriously?

I do give them that they have the E PTO, but its available on Kubota, too as an option.

Everywhere you look its Deere v. Kubota. Deere knows Kubota is gaining on them all the time. 30 years ago, nobody could touch Deere (except Case-IH lol). My biggest problem with Deere is the Deerlerships. They are pretty stuck up. Their tractors seem great. Personally, i wouldnt buy any of them with the pollution crap.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Deere is scared to death of Kubota because Kubota is eating away at Deere's bottom line from 125HP down.


What do you base that statement on....or is that just your opinion?

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

They are targeting Kubota owners. My brother gets a coupon a couple times a year supposedly an extra 1 or 2 or 3k off a green one when you trade in an orange one.

As to Kubota vs Deeee quality-from my observation shopping for a cut 8 years ago and a small utility tractor: Deere leaves a lot to be desired. My Kubota is the base utility model and IMHO seems better built than comparable JD (E series). I am sure stepping up from there that may not be the case.

Not too long ago I dont think outside of CUTs the green and orange would have been in the same conversation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Vol said:


> What do you base that statement on....or is that just your opinion?
> 
> Regards, Mike


I base it on the massive expansion of Kubota since the 70's. Back then Deere used to have hardly anything in small 4WD tractors available for small farmers. Take it or leave it was their attitude back then. Kubota saw a niche. I remember my dad buying his first small utility tractor. The dealer sold both Deere and Kubota. Couldnt get 4WD in a smaller Deere back then. My dad was unimpressed. We needed better traction. Back then, Kubota was almost unknown. Another salesman asked him to check out this new Japanese made tractor with 4WD. That got our attention. We came home with a 285DT. Used it forever. Dad sold it 20 years later for great money. Its still being used by a landscape nursery. Since the 70's, Kubota has exploded in popularity adding medium size tractors to their lineup, hay tools, utility vehicles, skid steer loaders, mini excavators and now the bigger M series.

Obviously, this has caused Deere lost $$ in sales more than Kubota in their infancy in America in the 70's.

I dont think documentation is necessary to prove Kubota takes sales from Deere. Its pretty obvious based on the number of Kubota tractors & dealers you see, that they're growing and taking sales from Deere in tractors, Gators, skid steers, etc.. Moreover, Deere's obvious concern about competition from Kubota as evidenced by videos with Kubota portrayed as the villain support my findings.

Id rather be able to buy Deere than Kubota, but I just cant afford it. Even with the vaunted "great resale value" of Deere, I'd rather have the savings up front than get a bigger check in 5-10 years.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> They are targeting Kubota owners. My brother gets a coupon a couple times a year supposedly an extra 1 or 2 or 3k off a green one when you trade in an orange one.
> 
> As to Kubota vs Deeee quality-from my observation shopping for a cut 8 years ago and a small utility tractor: Deere leaves a lot to be desired. My Kubota is the base utility model and IMHO seems better built than comparable JD (E series). I am sure stepping up from there that may not be the case.
> 
> Not too long ago I dont think outside of CUTs the green and orange would have been in the same conversation.


Yep, me too.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I would not be surprised a bit that your Kubota is better than the E series moose. I suspect JD regrets the move in that direction.....and it was a decision made in competing with their Number 1 competitor...Mahindra.

John Deeres main focus is on Mahindra, but they have a eye towards all their competition. India is the second largest agricultural nation in the world....and the leading tractor seller. 50% of John Deeres sales are in foreign countries....so they are keenly aware of what goes on around the world.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Demo'd a 135 the other day....nice tractor, would probably do the job I need to be done, but it is a cheaper machine in every respect, and that's a good thing.....they, nor anyone else, can build a more robust machine for the less. Chevrolet/ford ain't gonna build a car that keeps up with Mercedes and BMW in quality or price, that would be foolish on their part. Market share is what they're after and utility tractors is where they've focused their business, they make a good one, for a lot less money.

For me personally, I've always found quality to be a good investment.......no matter the color, the resale usually reflects that, I've had good luck with tractors of all colors in that regard


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Number one selling tractor In the world.....mahindra

That's what my JD dealer told me.....


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

My brother and I bought our Kubota L3400 new in 07 to replace a dying Ford Golden Jubilee for food plots. Fast forward a few years and I have some beef. I bought him out of that. Then he buts homself a new 7040. After his compared to mine: a year later I traded up. Now we almost have a matching pair.

If JD made a better CUT, comparable to the L, I might have a shiny green one. Same with my brother.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Demo'd a 135 the other day....nice tractor, would probably do the job I need to be done, but it is a cheaper machine in every respect, and that's a good thing.....they, nor anyone else, can build a more robust machine for the less. Chevrolet/ford ain't gonna build a car that keeps up with Mercedes and BMW in quality or price, that would be foolish on their part. Market share is what they're after and utility tractors is where they've focused their business, they make a good one, for a lot less money.
> For me personally, I've always found quality to be a good investment.......no matter the color, the resale usually reflects that, I've had good luck with tractors of all colors in that regard


It is a start. Someone who has a good experience with something small is more apt to buy something bigger. Looking ahead that could be into row crop guys. Eventually.

Japanese mfg vs Indian I take Jap any day. Seems bigger and bigger that it takes to ger cnh and deere out of india...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> It is a start. Someone who has a good experience with something small is more apt to buy something bigger. Looking ahead that could be into row crop guys. Eventually.
> 
> Japanese mfg vs Indian I take Jap any day. Seems bigger and bigger that it takes to ger cnh and deere out of india...


Totally agree. Japanese quality is pretty high.

Japan and Korea would be building every piece of electronics for us if it weren't for China.

Japanese dominance in the car market is breathtaking.

They aint doing too bad in construction, either (Komatsu, Hitachi, etc)

Kubota will keep growing in the AG market. Japanese farms are small compared to US and other countrys farms. I believe thats why theyre catching up more slowly in AG than other industries.

Deere is a huge, management laden company compared to Kubota. They have to off-shore their production to places like China and India and subcontract assemblies to companies like Yanmar to compete cost-wise with other tractor companies.

Yanmar is another Japanese tractor company that could be very good.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Something like this would look good in front of a yellow baler though...
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9207736


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Wife and I took an afternoon roadtrip a few weeks ago and came across a Ag Heritage Show at a nearby county and they had old and new equipment on display. I think Deere needs to worry about Mahindra also. Didn't know they had a 105hp tractor yet. Couldn't get in it but I have to say it didn't look to bad.










Someone also had this beauty on display.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Number one selling tractor In the world.....mahindra
> 
> That's what my JD dealer told me.....


Kubota claims to be the world top producer of diesel motors of 100 hp and less.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> Wife and I took an afternoon roadtrip a few weeks ago and came across a Ag Heritage Show at a nearby county and they had old and new equipment on display. I think Deere needs to worry about Mahindra also. Didn't know they had a 105hp tractor yet. Couldn't get in it but I have to say it didn't look to bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The big mahindra is a TYM tractor built in South Korea.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

That might be even better. I think I'd rather have S. Korean made than Indian made but then again I don't know anyone that has a TYM either. I did read where TYM is building a 150hp tractor and working on a 200.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> That might be even better. I think I'd rather have S. Korean made than Indian made but then again I don't know anyone that has a TYM either. I did read where TYM is building a 150hp tractor and working on a 200.


The ones I've seen we're junk, nothing good about that I don't think, they're a copy cat company.....they look a lot like Massey and I'm purty sure they build the blue imports that look like New Holland. Beauty is skin deep.....perhaps mahindra has a deal with them to build tractors but I would put kioti much higher than those tractors that I've seen.....no matter the clothes they dresss them up in


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> Something like this would look good in front of a yellow baler though...
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9207736


When I become king of hay in my area I think I'm putting one of these bad asses in front of my Class square baler


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

One of my biggest concerns is service. And not necessarily dealer service, but manufacturer service. I feel that dealer service is very variable, some good some bad, across all manufacturers. Just depends on your local situation.

What happens though, when you have an issue that your dealer cannot solve. Does the manufacturer provide any services to the customer and to the dealer. I believe that's where John Deere, Case/New Holland, and maybe Agco shine, at least for customers in North America.

Do the Japanese, Korean, Indian, etc. manufacturers have the "local" infrastructure to provide you and your dealer with service and support?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JMT said:


> One of my biggest concerns is service. And not necessarily dealer service, but manufacturer service. I feel that dealer service is very variable, some good some bad, across all manufacturers. Just depends on your local situation.
> 
> What happens though, when you have an issue that your dealer cannot solve. Does the manufacturer provide any services to the customer and to the dealer. I believe that's where John Deere, Case/New Holland, and maybe Agco shine, at least for customers in North America.
> 
> Do the Japanese, Korean, Indian, etc. manufacturers have the "local" infrastructure to provide you and your dealer with service and support?


I would think just the opposite. The "big 3" think their poop dont stink and they frequently (but not always) have the attitude that goes with it. I would think the Japanese, Korean, Indian, etc. manufacturers would be more hungry, willing to please, willing to do more freebees for the customer.

When you say "infrastructure" regarding foreign companies, you do realize Case/New Holland IS a foreign company? Doosan (Korea) owns Bobcat and Kubota has like 3 manufacturing facilities in the US?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I would think just the opposite. The "big 3" think their poop dont stink and they frequently (but not always) have the attitude that goes with it. I would think the Japanese, Korean, Indian, etc. manufacturers would be more hungry, willing to please, willing to do more freebees for the customer.
> When you say "infrastructure" regarding foreign companies, you do realize Case/New Holland IS a foreign company? Doosan (Korea) owns Bobcat and Kubota has like 3 manufacturing facilities in the US?


He said "local" JD.......I personally don't give a damn where it's made, but where it's made sometimes has a way of butting them in the ass, hence the Deere problems with Mexico.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> He said "local" JD.......I personally don't give a damn where it's made, but where it's made sometimes has a way of butting them in the ass, hence the Deere problems with Mexico.


IMHO JD has more reliability problems with their tractors/equipment built in other countries than Mexico. All one needs to do is read some tractor discussion forums.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> IMHO JD has more reliability problems with their tractors/equipment built in other countries than Mexico. All one needs to do is read some tractor discussion forums.


My info came from my SERVICE MANAGER......theyve been having real problems with Mexico, so much so that Deere has considered outsourcing those components elsewhere. Not the Tractors built in Mexico, parts built in Mexico.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I couldnt even SIT in a Mahindra. Makes my Kubotas look like show stoppers.

Sorry, just one more 8100 picture.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I can't look away from the Valtra


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I was just riding planting with the neighbor. 8235R. 16 row planter. The tillage tractor ahead of him is I think 9560R. Those are Some nice green tractor. Looks like I get to stare at corn east and south, beans north. Beats prevent plant weeds 2 of those 3.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Spoke with a neighbor today. He said his wife has been nice to him this year. He is retired (kinda) and got married last year. Sounds like the ring was a good investment. Said she bought him a new 5085e Cab loader etc this Spring. Then a Harley.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

John deere vs other brands war. Uumm. Maybe one day I will be rich enough to own a fendt.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Y'all don't worry my wife would never allow a Mahindra on the farm


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Grateful11 said:


> Y'all don't worry my wife would never allow a Mahindra on the farm


If someone wants to gift or give usage to a Mahindra to me, I will certainly put it to use.....just not too small please.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If it was free and I didn't have to fix it I'd use it.

The thing about all these tractors no matter what they use to meet emissions it will get better.

Remember back in the mid to late 80's? Some cars had about 500 miles of vacuum hose under the hood and about a gazillion electrical connections to meet emissions. Now they are much simpler and work better. Diesels will catch up to gas engines, will just take time for it to happen, until then though I'd hold back on a new anything.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I couldn't agree more....with the autos it started in the late 70's with catalytic converters that choked the hp down so bad that folks just took the dang things off and replaced with a straight pipe connector. It got better, but it took about 10 years....it will be the same with diesel tractors....I would hate to own a def tractor ten years from now.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It is incredible what these regs have done to the Diesel engine. 
Look at CAT. No longer builds OTR truck engines. That alone is amazing.
In Europe, Diesel engines are embraced because of their fuel efficiency. My FIinL was telling me diesel fuel is actually subsidized in Europe to encourage motorists to buy diesel powered cars & trucks. It does make sense, since less fossil fuel is burned. Here it seems to be penalized or at least disliked.
We are arguably the most tech advanced country in the world in many ways, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why more vehicles are not diesel powered and why we cannot build world class Diesel engines for our vehicles.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> It is incredible what these regs have done to the Diesel engine.
> Look at CAT. No longer builds OTR truck engines. That alone is amazing.
> In Europe, Diesel engines are embraced because of their fuel efficiency. My FIinL was telling me diesel fuel is actually subsidized in Europe to encourage motorists to buy diesel powered cars & trucks. It does make sense, since less fossil fuel is burned. Here it seems to be penalized or at least disliked.
> We are arguably the most tech advanced country in the world in many ways, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why more vehicles are not diesel powered and why we cannot build world class Diesel engines for our vehicles.


You can blame GM for that and that sad excuse of a diesel they had decades ago, what was it? A 454 with diesel heads more or less? Things were junk when they ran good and stunk to high heaven all the time. The you had the rattle boxes in the Ford pickups awhile back, you could hear one of those start a 1/4 mile away on a cold day. Then of course you have the dumbasses that think smoke is power and have a cloud of black smoke rolling constantly when even climbing the smallest hill.

Is it any wonder the average American hasn't embraced diesels?

Cat may be the smartest ones out of the bunch, continue to make prime movers and off road diesels and let the other manufacturers drop billions into R&D then once a simpler more improved emission system is discovered reverse engineer for their own engines.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

mlappin said:


> You can blame GM for that and that sad excuse of a diesel they had decades ago, what was it? A 454 with diesel heads more or less? Things were junk when they ran good and stunk to high heaven all the time. The you had the rattle boxes in the Ford pickups awhile back, you could hear one of those start a 1/4 mile away on a cold day. Then of course you have the dumbasses that think smoke is power and have a cloud of black smoke rolling constantly when even climbing the smallest hill.
> 
> Is it any wonder the average American hasn't embraced diesels?
> 
> Cat may be the smartest ones out of the bunch, continue to make prime movers and off road diesels and let the other manufacturers drop billions into R&D then once a simpler more improved emission system is discovered reverse engineer for their own engines.


Good post Marty, guy I know that worked in Cat Truck Engine shop said they already have engines running that are better on fuel mileage, power, and emissions than everybody else out there. He said he was told by one of the engineers at a class they had to take the only thing holding them back is certain parts in the design that are electrical have to be better developed out of better materials before they can put the engine on the market. From what he said the engine (class 8 truck engine) will only run about 50,000 miles before having to replace these parts. He said the engineer was very vague about it but did say it had formula one racing technology in the valve train. He said once perfected it would be a game changer. He seems to think the engine don't have a camshaft and is using electro-hydraulics to open the valves giving it completely variable valve timing. But also said that is just his guess from the bits and pieces he could fit together.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> You can blame GM for that and that sad excuse of a diesel they had decades ago, what was it? A 454 with diesel heads more or less? Things were junk when they ran good and stunk to high heaven all the time. The you had the rattle boxes in the Ford pickups awhile back, you could hear one of those start a 1/4 mile away on a cold day. Then of course you have the dumbasses that think smoke is power and have a cloud of black smoke rolling constantly when even climbing the smallest hill.
> 
> Is it any wonder the average American hasn't embraced diesels?
> Cat may be the smartest ones out of the bunch, continue to make prime movers and off road diesels and let the other manufacturers drop billions into R&D then once a simpler more improved emission system is discovered reverse engineer for their own engines.


You never waste any chance to make Cummins look good, do ya? Lol they can be pretty loud, too. 
While I agree, it seems like that was quite a long time ago. There's so many other Diesel engines out there that could go under the hood of a pickup. MB, BMW, FIAT,.....etc. 
Looks like Dodge is stuffing a Fiat diesel in the 1/2 ton. A great idea.

Something encouraging happened in my little town re diesel fuel: Local gas station closed for new tank installation. Signs say diesel fuel will be sold there once new tanks and pumps go in. 
I suggested he sell diesel fuel 5 years ago and he laughed at my suggestion.


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

mlappin said:


> You can blame GM for that and that sad excuse of a diesel they had decades ago, what was it? A 454 with diesel heads more or less? Things were junk when they ran good and stunk to high heaven all the time. The you had the rattle boxes in the Ford pickups awhile back, you could hear one of those start a 1/4 mile away on a cold day. Then of course you have the dumbasses that think smoke is power and have a cloud of black smoke rolling constantly when even climbing the smallest hill.
> 
> Is it any wonder the average American hasn't embraced diesels?
> 
> Cat may be the smartest ones out of the bunch, continue to make prime movers and off road diesels and let the other manufacturers drop billions into R&D then once a simpler more improved emission system is discovered reverse engineer for their own engines.


Dad had 2 of those 350 diesels in the early 80's. One in a Cutlass Supreme, the diesel turned it into a gutless supreme! Had injection pump issues and it liked to pop head gaskets about every other year. He sold it to an employee who snapped the crank shaft. After that it got a gas 350 put in it and I guess it ran around here quite awhile. Dads never bought a diesel since!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

My uncle had a Cutlass station wagon with that sad excuse for a diesel in it, even when it ran good (for it) it was still a piece of crap.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

cornshucker said:


> Good post Marty, guy I know that worked in Cat Truck Engine shop said they already have engines running that are better on fuel mileage, power, and emissions than everybody else out there. He said he was told by one of the engineers at a class they had to take the only thing holding them back is certain parts in the design that are electrical have to be better developed out of better materials before they can put the engine on the market. From what he said the engine (class 8 truck engine) will only run about 50,000 miles before having to replace these parts. He said the engineer was very vague about it but did say it had formula one racing technology in the valve train. He said once perfected it would be a game changer. He seems to think the engine don't have a camshaft and is using electro-hydraulics to open the valves giving it completely variable valve timing. But also said that is just his guess from the bits and pieces he could fit together.


That'd be cute, I haven't followed it near as close when they changed dates on the F1 in Indy and not at all since they don't have it anymore, but at one time I remember they were talking of a F1 engine with hydraulic actuated valves that would top out at over 24,000 RPM.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Come a long way since the 350 diesel. Anyone who wont buy a diesel based on the 350 diesel being a POS has a lot of residual anger for sure!

Now the diesel engines are excellent, but the gubmit has ruined all that progress with pollution control junk.

I think we reached the point where they're no longer a better option than a solid big block gas motor unless you are driving 40k + per year on the highway with a heavy trailer.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Just heard yesterday: A european study led by France has discovered that soot from diesel engines is so small that it lodges in the lungs and cannot be dislodged or absorbed by your body. Well that means more DPF in our tractors and more regeneration time.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Doesn't even have to be that new of a tractor to have a sensor screw you. Lost a whole day of planting beans because of a $360 three point position sensor on our MF8160 and a 8160 isn't a new tractor by any stretch of the imagination. The sensor will be here Saturday morning, after the rain of course.

It went out last night while planting the outside rounds on a large field, outside 4 rounds was 19.2 acres. The last round and a half stopped, set the parking brake, climb out, use the fender button to raise the Hinker, climb back in the cab, release parking brake, get turned around (square corners only with the Hiniker) stop, reset the parking brake, get out, lower the Hiniker with the fender button, climb back in, release parking brake, plant till the next corner, repeat. After doing that about 10 times I called it a night. Other problem is on the loamy end of the field a few times from setting the Hiniker down without moving plugged a few seed boots.

Sisu/valmet engine in it still uses a mechanical Bosch pump, so take a new tractor that has lets say three or four times the sensors on it&#8230;..


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Trillium Farm said:


> Just heard yesterday: A european study led by France...


that's reason enough to take it with a grain of salt.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Gotta agree. Ain't a lot right with France.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You know, the people of France are completely different than the government or the policies of France, kinda just like here the last 7 years or so.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Not sure what you mean Marty...the majority of people in this country the last seven years are exactly like our government.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> Not sure what you mean Marty...the majority of people in this country the last seven years are exactly like our government.
> 
> Regards, Mike


The majority of the people that voted are like the government, I know of several rather than vote for Romney they just stayed home last election.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Actually, need to expand on that thought, the majority or people who voted for the current administration are like the government, take take take gimme gimme gimme.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> You know, the people of France are completely different than the government or the policies of France, kinda just like here the last 7 years or so.


And you find a more visually stunning place to go. Absolutely beautiful countryside, farms, castles, little railroads, country towns. I fell in love with it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> And you find a more visually stunning place to go. Absolutely beautiful countryside, fans, castles, little railroads, country towns. I fell in love with it.


Yep, did the chunnel from England to France, then drove to Normandy. Absolutely brilliant highways, run 80-90 MPH sometimes and they are like a sheet of glass. Of course they pay dearly for those nice roads. I'd love to go back someday and spend 4-5 days in the Normandy region.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> The majority of the people that voted are like the government, I know of several rather than vote for Romney they just stayed home last election.


The majority of people in this country are just like the current government/administration..... conservatives or semi-conservatives are in the minority population in the US. Anyone who stayed home rather than vote for Romney same as voted for Obama. Are they going to stay home and not vote again if their "choice" is not running? If a individual does not vote, they need to keep their damned mouth shut about American politics.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Oh I know, I told some as much, although that was a hard sell considering Indiana wasn't stupid twice in a row and went red in 2012. Voting third party was as much a vote for Obama as actually voting for him as no liberal votes Libertarian normally and instead it's the independents and just barely conservatives who like to split tickets.

Pretty much when I really wanna piss somebody off I tell em if they didn't vote then shut up.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

They can also pay some of my taxes as well.


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