# Opinions on Rotary Windrowers



## Burnside (Feb 24, 2012)

Hello All, I am new to HayTalk, but in my short time I have greatly enjoyed all of the commentary.

I am currently in the market for a new rotary windrower, and was wondering if I could coax some wisdom out of you guys. (or gals). I know of one being used in my area, (a 9260 Hesston) but I would like to get some input of the pros/cons of some different makes. I am blessed with the fact that I have about every major dealer within 20 miles of where I live, so parts/service would not be an issue. I live in SW Missouri, and pull-types are king, but I honestly believe I can do the work of 2 pull types with one machine (and one less person.).

My tractors are green, but that doesn't limit my decision.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

I have a Hesston to and its the best I have ever owned. I haven't experienced a disadvantage yet but I have been told that they don't. Cut as clean on light praire hay. Mel


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Self propelled is the way to go. If you want a new Massey/Hesston be prepared for a extra high price. I have owned a 2001 Hesston disc swather and a 2009 Massey. Currently have the Massey. The newer ones are better as they have more power and the drive wheels are driven by hydraulics. The older Hesstons are driven by rather small chains which on our Hesston broke twice (luckily never on a county road). I have never tried other brands, but I will tell you that in really thick hay the Hesstons/Massey sometimes do not condition the windrow quite as good as I think they should. The reason is because the hay coming in from the sides is thicker then the middle so the conditioners don't condition quite as well in the middle. However the newer Massey does better then the older Hesston did as it has one more conditioner roll. I've often wondered if the NH with the auger would do the conditioning better, but then I wonder about the auger itself plugging up in thick grass. Our Hesstons/Massey never have ever plugged. The brand new Massey for this year brags about the fan reverser to blow out chaff. Well I don't see why it's such an advantage as our swathers never get plugged up with chaff either. But you would be able to go much faster then a pull type. On a smooth field you should easily be able to go 8-12 mph. The brand new ones probably faster as they have suspension. Plus you won't run over as much has as you do with a pull type.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

If you mean rotory rakes there are a number of good ones out there. They will rake damp hay with out the wet slugs a roll bar machine will provide.

If you mean as some believe a disk mower conditioner, for your location, I would say a NH machine. This is becasue you can take the doors off the mower and attach some fins to the hay deflector and have you hay spread over 80% to 100% if tge available ground. 
In a humid climate will cure days faster if spread out full width.

A pull type becouse the tires in a self propelled get in the way of the full width spreading.

Now in Colorado or the Dakota's with their very low humidities and steady winds they not only do not NEED full sunshine to cure hay, but they will shatter a whole lot of leaves trying to rake hay that is that dry in their low humidities.

To rake dry hay we* need *90% relative humidity. In Colorado they may go months with the humidity never approaching 90%.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Good point about spreading it out with a pull type. I would disagree that we in Colorado don't need full sunshine to cure hay. We do. Luckily we get lots of it. I don't necessarily rake hay, but turn or fluff hay so it dries faster. We do rake two windrows together if baling with large balers. For alfalfa I do that when there is dew on the hay whenever that happens in the night or morning. For grass hay it doesn't matter. And yes we rarely have 90% humidity. Like right now for example it's 85% and it's snowing.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

rake two windrows together - For alfalfa I do that when there is dew on the hay
If you have hay that is damp with the dew down at the hay level you have 85 or 90% humidity.

I was not specific for baling hay when I mention a humidity I mean the humidity down at the hay's level. Not eye level, or at the barn, or at the some weather station.

Obviously your grass hay is not the weed known as bermudagrass. Bermudagrass sheds leaves worse than alfalfa ever thought of doing. Not only are there more leaves on the baler after baling with bermudagrass, but in the barn where they are stored there are far more leaves on the floor than in the part of the barn with alfalfa stored.

This year I sampled the hay baled at 65% humidity and the hay baled at 55% humidity. The protein was 1% lower for the square bales and 2% lower for round bales. Not earth shattering but I thought it was interesting.

A number of growers complain about the Lab not being consistent on their results. Now I know to sample only the first bales, those that are normally baled at 70% humidity and the on the go moisture tester is registering 20% moisture, with an occasional flake as high as 22% moisture. These bales are the last bales to be picked up and they end up in a stack with air circulation. This last load is load I should sample for the best feed value test result. 
Selling hay sample the bales that were baled with the best humidity. Buying hay sample the bales that were baled with the lowest humidity.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

No our grass is orchard and brome. I'm not really sure what bermuda grass is. I've been told it's the stuff that they sometimes use for lawns in Texas? Which the lawns that I've seen in Texas doesn't look like grass to me at all. That's something that it sheds more then alfalfa.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

We have lawns of bermuda grass here. It is drought resistant and spreds like wildfire. I too had no idea it was baled until recently when my brother started dating a Okie. It has short leaves like alfalfa but smaller,thinner and more of them. I can see that it would shed more if baled too dry


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## Burnside (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks to all for the input. I agree with you Hay Wilson about throwing the hay wide for quicker drydown, but in my situation I am looking for a way to lay my hay down more efficiently. If short windows of time or cool nights present themselves, I just make baleage. Colorado like humidity is rare in SW MO, usually only happens in July/August cuttings.


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## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

Find yourself a nice 9635 Massey with the 9192 Razor bar header and you will happy. The 9192 header is the advanced conditioner header with the 2 sets of steel on steel rolls. I feel that the Massey (Hesston) Razor bar has the cleanest cut, best windrow formation which leads to the best curing. You will want to experiment with different knife angles and an extra lifter or two on different crops. 
The new WR series are nice but hang onto your hat when you price them.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Get yourself a Case or a New Holland. They are the exact same machine, just have different paint. We have run New Hollands for years (generations actually), and swear by them, their cut, and the way the hay cures.

Hesston/Massey is like "Fisher Price - My First Self Propelled Windrower" . I guess it's a decent enough place to start, but when spending the type of money you are talking about, I would go ahead and get something GREAT, not something GOOD.



Burnside said:


> Hello All, I am new to HayTalk, but in my short time I have greatly enjoyed all of the commentary.
> 
> I am currently in the market for a new rotary windrower, and was wondering if I could coax some wisdom out of you guys. (or gals). I know of one being used in my area, (a 9260 Hesston) but I would like to get some input of the pros/cons of some different makes. I am blessed with the fact that I have about every major dealer within 20 miles of where I live, so parts/service would not be an issue. I live in SW Missouri, and pull-types are king, but I honestly believe I can do the work of 2 pull types with one machine (and one less person.).
> 
> ...


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer do you ever cut very thick, tall grass hay with your NH? If so does the grass ever plug up the auger?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

My brother has owned a 2550, HW320, and HW325, all with 14 ft sickle heads. The conditoning rolls will plug and stall the machine long before the auger will. The header units on these machines have performed well, but the advancing electronics on each newer model has caused some frustration. Some of the problems have been factory defects.



> but I will tell you that in really thick hay the Hesstons/Massey sometimes do not condition the windrow quite as good as I think they should. The reason is because the hay coming in from the sides is thicker then the middle so the conditioners don't condition quite as well in the middle


This is an interesting observation. I too have noticed that the NH machines have a bit more material in the edges of the windrow when the windrow is set for maximun width (about 7 ft).


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Interesting Gear Clash I was wondering if the augers on the NH disc head would help with the center of the windrow conditioning better. As the Hesston disc head doesn't have augers, but flinger things. I've always found the the edges of the windrow dry faster then the center. Even though the center usually has less hay with our Massey and our previous Hesston. We had a sickle NH years and years ago and it didn't work well with our grass hay. I was too young to be cutting hay then, but my dad would get grass hay wrapped around the augers as well as stuck in the conditioning rolls. And this is why we fear and question augers in the NH disc heads. Sickle heads of any brand of swather have a hard time in our grass hay. We had a 1987 NH haybine self propelled that did better then the standard sickle heads, but even then it would plug up easily.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

How to Install Wide Thin Fin Kit on a New Holland Discbine Disc-Mower Conditioner - YouTube

New Holland Discbine Wide Thins - YouTube

NewHollandNA's Channel - YouTube

I looked at a Hesston disk conditioner today and it is possible to pull the windrow shaping but end off the machine, just not as easy as it is with a NH.

The CD wsa correct the new machines are predrilled for the hay deflector to cover 100% of the ground with hay. 
My NH 411 is paid for and I have learned to work around some odd traits, & I am not in the market for a new machine. 
Welll a NH 1069 self propelled Bale Wagon, maybe. Probably not though.


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## Burnside (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm right there with you on the 1069 Hay Wilson. I have run a 1047 for years and I always wish I was bringing in 160 a trip instead of 119!! Trouble is, if you find a nice one it's going to cost you.


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

the only reason imo to buy a newholland is if you cant afford anything better. i would recommend a new massey or a new macdon. they are probably gonna cost more. but you get what you pay for


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Those new Macdons are interesting how they have a road gear going backwards. Our neighbor has one and when I first saw him coming down the road backwards I though that was the strangest thing I've seen in awhile.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I was told by a guy in texas, I think, that he was cutting sudan with an HW340, a few years back, and that stuff was taller than the top of the cab, and he was able to go right through it. The question had been raised about the auger at that time as well, and he seemed to be the expert.

I don't want to enter the color war on haybines.... we have a red one, the neighbor has a green one, and nobody I know has a brown one, at least not a new one. Red and green dealers are stonger here, and I bet that's the reason.

Rodney


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> rake two windrows together - For alfalfa I do that when there is dew on the hay
> If you have hay that is damp with the dew down at the hay level you have 85 or 90% humidity.
> 
> I was not specific for baling hay when I mention a humidity I mean the humidity down at the hay's level. Not eye level, or at the barn, or at the some weather station.
> ...


The fins don't work as good as you think they would, at least over here in the humid mid-Atlantic. We thought the exact same so we installed them on our NH 7550 13' machine and it still requires a Tedder pass. Perhaps it would work in your arid environment, but tried it here at unfortunately doesn't work out as well.

The only way I'd go to self propelled is if I was running on 2000 acres or more, otherwise you have an engine that can do only 1 operation (mowing), whereas you could unhook from a trailed mower and go ahead to bale in the afternoon,....just my thoughts though. All depends on your operation....and expendable money reserves!!


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

cdhayman said:


> the only reason imo to buy a newholland is if you cant afford anything better. i would recommend a new massey or a new macdon. they are probably gonna cost more. but you get what you pay for


You are kidding right? When was the last time you price any of these machines? NH and Mac don will be close together and Massey will be lower than them both. Your facts suck and so does your buying strategy. Basically you are saying to ignore other farmers experience and avoid a demo, just buy what costs the most? Wow, that's THE worst Idea I've heard in years.

In the past year I have either owned or extensively demoed a MacDon M200, New Holland 8080 and case 2303. I didn't even Demo a Massey, as it makes ZERO sense to me to even consider a machine inferior to the one I was trading in (Hw345). The MacDon was in fact the most expensive, it is also the only machine out of the three I can safely say I will NEVER run. Horrible machine.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Leadfarmer. Would you care to say why you think the NH is the best swather as compared to Masseys or Macdons besides saying that your family has used them for generations? To me NH and Massey are equal. I have a Massey myself and think it's pretty good. But I've never run a NH and I don't like the idea of the auger, but as someone else above mentioned it does a good job on tall grass type crops. I used to not like Macdon very much as they used to not be as good, but now they seem better. I've just never run one of them and probably won't ever look into buying one as there isn't a good dealer here for them.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

LeadFarmer said:


> Get yourself a Case or a New Holland. They are the exact same machine, just have different paint. We have run New Hollands for years (generations actually), and swear by them, their cut, and the way the hay cures.


 I explained it right there. The machine is the best, we have had least problems with it, and we know how to work on it.

The cut is the best. Our new Machine has the new header on it. It doesn't leave "turtle marks" like the older NH rotary's did. It cuts the cleanest of all the machines I have tested. Not much more to explain there.

The hay cures better than after the other machines. Again, pretty self explanatory.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Well maybe when I'm in the market again for a new swather I will look at a NH. No need now. Or probably not for another 5 years. But by then I'm sure they all will be priced at $200,000.







The only time I looked at them was about 10 years ago. I suppose we should have looked at them 2 years ago, but we liked our older Hesston enough not to really be interested in changing to something we weren't sure of. Plus I don't know anyone around with a NH disc to ask. Everyone here has Hesston/Massey.


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

We have demoed everything but a case. For our high yield grass the masseys and macdons work out the best. But to each his own


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## Burnside (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks to all for the commentary. It is refreshing to get real-world knowledge on something, not just salesman propaganda. I'm curious though, out of all the responses, not one mention of a deere machine. Are they that bad? I have ran deere pull types for several years, and never had a single problem. I am considering a deere, mainly because I have a good dealer close by and a better chance to trade in some equipment.

PaCustomBaler, I agree with you that you have a machine that can only mow, and I have always thought I couldn't justify something that would sit in the barn all winter. However, they are working on a biomass project in my area that would require harvesting in winter months, and a pretty mean machine is required to cut this stuff. Check out "Miscanthus Harvest" on youtube and you will see what I mean.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

There probably just aren't as many people out there that have a JD swather. A friend of mine has one and likes it a lot. I've never even sat in one. A few years ago they were priced kinda high compared to the other brands and the dealer wouldn't negotiate price (which is typical for that dealer). For example at that time JD was asking $80,000 and Hesston (before the Massey name was on them) was asking $65,000. I guess it's that green paint.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Well maybe when I'm in the market again for a new swather I will look at a NH. No need now. Or probably not for another 5 years. But by then I'm sure they all will be priced at $200,000.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not demoing one at the very least. Until recently we were not fans of the disc headers, but with the new re-design we are definitely more than satisfied. I will try to snap a pic or two while cutting today. We are able to go exponentially faster than our old sickle machine, and the quality of the cut, even in heavy, tangled hay is just incredible.

Oh yeah, by the way, my new machine is the Case 2303, which as I said is exactly the same as the NH 8080. The machines both cut the exact same (exact same machine, different paint) but we were having issues with service at our New Holland dealer.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Burnside said:


> Thanks to all for the commentary. It is refreshing to get real-world knowledge on something, not just salesman propaganda. I'm curious though, out of all the responses, not one mention of a deere machine. Are they that bad? I have ran deere pull types for several years, and never had a single problem. I am considering a deere, mainly because I have a good dealer close by and a better chance to trade in some equipment.
> 
> PaCustomBaler, I agree with you that you have a machine that can only mow, and I have always thought I couldn't justify something that would sit in the barn all winter. However, they are working on a biomass project in my area that would require harvesting in winter months, and a pretty mean machine is required to cut this stuff. Check out "Miscanthus Harvest" on youtube and you will see what I mean.


We ran a Deere machine for a few days last season. We are definitely not a fan, and you will only see one Deere machine running around this area. I found the cut to be very uneven, with lots of "turtle marks" or streaks between the turtles.

As cdhayman said above, to each his own. With farmers you can always count on us being different. What looks great to me, might look awful to someone else, and what works great here might work awful somewhere else too!

Just Demo as many machines as you possibly can. Any dealer serious about making a sale will drop a machine off with you for a day or two. Or use this as an excuse to take a field day, and drive around your area and try to see other guys cutting, see what they are using and talk to them about how they like it.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

I beg to differ on the deere machines. I have 6 of them now. Mine cut very clean but I do run 18% blades and accelerators all the way acrosed. I have owned a h345 and did not like it. the MF won't even look at it. the macdon is just a kune head i won't say more. The NH I won't look at it because the dealer in this area is a joke.


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## cdhayman (Jan 25, 2011)

I reaffirm what leadfarmer says. We all have different preferences and very different situations and applications. and honestly theyll probably all do a decent job


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

All of them are junk it's the dealer with the best parts and service that make the machine good or not.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Deerzilla is right about the dealers. If I took seriously how both the Massey sales people and challenger sales people have told me on how to run my Massey swather for the best cut in grass hay and alfalfa I would be very unhappy with our Massey. I just do the opposite of what they tell me and it's satisfactory to me. Maybe it's the same with other brands?


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

Teslan said:


> Deerzilla is right about the dealers. If I took seriously how both the Massey sales people and challenger sales people have told me on how to run my Massey swather for the best cut in grass hay and alfalfa I would be very unhappy with our Massey. I just do the opposite of what they tell me and it's satisfactory to me. Maybe it's the same with other brands?


Haha yeah the salesmen never know how to run these things in the field. They are regurgitating numbers out of the manual or from a training course they have received.

I, like you, run my machine a bit different than what my salesman recommends.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> I beg to differ on the deere machines. I have 6 of them now. Mine cut very clean but I do run 18% blades and accelerators all the way acrosed. I have owned a h345 and did not like it. the MF won't even look at it. the macdon is just a kune head i won't say more. The NH I won't look at it because the dealer in this area is a joke.


I seem to remember you mentioning how great your six Deere machines were in another thread too. Of course, in THAT thread, I believe you said it took some amount of dialing in and fine tuning, basically you really need to be familiar with the machine. That is the very opposite of user friendly, and definitely NOT something I would want any part of.

I agree with you somewhat on the dealer aspect of things. I made my most recent buying decision based on dealer, but it was also identical machines (Case vs. NH). I won't NOT buy a machine because the dealer sucks, but it IS a major aspect of the buying process. Our Deere dealer here is above average on service, but the machine sucks, so I wouldn't buy it over the New Holland, which is a better machine, but has terrible service.


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## deerezilla (Nov 27, 2009)

Well I guess your the man. I just don"t know any better.


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## LeadFarmer (May 10, 2011)

deerezilla said:


> Well I guess your the man. I just don"t know any better.


Seriously?

Grow up. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you. Someone sharing their opinion is hardly a reason to act like a baby.

Farmers come here to share their experiences and "wisdom". I am trying to help other people out by sharing what little I know through experience. Obviously, everyone's experience is different, so to help the original poster out, I am trying to fully share how I feel about the situation.

The LAST thing someone needs to do in his place is make a rash purchase decision because someone with your attitude led him astray. Read the entire thread, I am trying to help.


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## SixesnSevens (Jun 19, 2011)

LeadFarmer said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Grow up. Not everyone in life is going to agree with you. Someone sharing their opinion is hardly a reason to act like a baby.
> 
> Farmers come here to share their experiences and "wisdom". I am trying to help other people out by sharing what little I know through experience. ...





LeadFarmer said:


> ... Your facts suck and so does your buying strategy. ...


Irony: a literary technique by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.


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