# Crop Rotation



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

I was talking with the neighbor this evening and he was tell me that he thinks we were nuts for not putting our hay field back into alfalfa this spring. We were told by the local CO-OP to rotate to something else, so we planted oats this spring, and plan on planting RR alfalfa next spring. One thing about this neighbor, he is a know it all, and he has never planted anything but alfalfa for the last 10 15 years. What are the advantages to rotating to something else for a year?


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

You say you planted oats between putting your hay field back into alfalfa? Was it a grass field or alfalfa field before the oats? If it was an old alfalfa field then yes you need to rotate something else for a year. If it was grass hay before I'm not sure why you would need to plant anything else before alfalfa. I had grass in a field last year. Ripped it up and planted alfalfa and it's been fine.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Yes it was alfalfa last year. What are the advantages of rotating?

OK, I have another question. The field where we planted the oats should we plow it up next year and then plant, or should we just disk it and drill in the alfalfa?


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Alfalfa toxicity is the reason for rotation.

Lightly disc if you must, but plowing doesn't need to be done on oats ground. I'd no-till in the alfalfa if you could.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> Yes it was alfalfa last year. What are the advantages of rotating?
> 
> OK, I have another question. The field where we planted the oats should we plow it up next year and then plant, or should we just disk it and drill in the alfalfa?


advantages of rotating after alfalfa before plating alfalfa again is that you won't be wasting seed, fuel, time due to as stack em up says toxicity. This proves that while your neighbor has grown alfalfa for 10-15 years you should not listen to anything he advises you on alfalfa.


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

We row cropped barley this year in one field for that very reason. Toxicity is an issue. 
If you do go to grass and are going to spray milestone, it has a three year residual. They don't mean 2 years and 8 months either, 3 full years. I lost an Alfalfa Crop a few years back because of it.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

We have a Monroe grain drill, I guess that will work for a no-till situation.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Teslan said:


> advantages of rotating after alfalfa before plating alfalfa again is that you won't be wasting seed, fuel, time due to as stack em up says toxicity. This proves that while your neighbor has grown alfalfa for 10-15 years you should not listen to anything he advises you on alfalfa.


Yea, I don't usually listen to him, he is one of those know-it-all, and completely full of shit type of guys.

This toxicity is probably why we have another field that is already thinning out; it is not all that old. We replanted about three or four years ago. I was always thinking that is was because it was getting drowned out by all of the under surface water; the canal above us leaks a lot. We put another drain line is a few years ago, but it has not really helped. On portion of the field I had to go around this last cutting; ended up getting the swather stuck, and did not want to get stuck with the tractor and baler.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Alfalfa auto-toxicity is a funny thing. I've gotten away with planting alfalfa on alfalfa by killing the alfalfa, waiting three months, then discing. I read (someplace) that the auto-toxicity problem is gone in 90 days---could be that the neighbor has stumbled on this cycle.

Ralph


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

CowboyRam said:


> Yea, I don't usually listen to him, he is one of those know-it-all, and completely full of shit type of guys.
> 
> This toxicity is probably why we have another field that is already thinning out; it is not all that old. We replanted about three or four years ago. I was always thinking that is was because it was getting drowned out by all of the under surface water; the canal above us leaks a lot. We put another drain line is a few years ago, but it has not really helped. On portion of the field I had to go around this last cutting; ended up getting the swather stuck, and did not want to get stuck with the tractor and baler.


Autotoxity effects the germination not thinning a couple yrs later.Thinning is more from disease,poor fertility,water ponding,frost damage,wheel traffic,etc

Alfalfa doesn't like wet feet,some varieties will tolerate it better then others.

Salinity in the soil could be a issue also with your water issues.

I'd do some soil testing.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We have one field that is very rolling, we've never worked it, bought time its 80% grass, 20% alfalfa we no-till right back into it, seems to work. I've also heard autotoxity isn't a real problem until you cut the roots. Not sure, but it does seem to work in this one field.

Normally though we prefer to burndown in the fall after some regrowth from the last cutting, no-till to corn, then no-till to beans the second year and plant back to hay the third year.

We've tossed around the ideal on lighter ground to take a very early cutting, wrap it, burn it down then no-till soybeans, plant rye that fall then get it back to alfalfa that fall of the second year. Cover crop seed seems to be in great demand and it seems easy enough to move any extra cereal rye we don't use for our selves as cover seed.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

A few years ago an oil and gas company was nice enough to frack a well in one of our alfalfa fields one winter that was just a couple of years old. They tore up about 1/2 an acre so I disked it up, cultipacked and not thinking anything of it replanted alfalfa. It came up very sparsly and grew about 1/2 inch then just died. Totally forgot about toxicity. Shoulda charged the gas company more for damage. That fall I reseeded the alfalfa and it grew just fine. We have even just left a field fallow a summer then replanted alfalfa in the fall as a rotation. So to get rid of toxicity you don't really have to even plant anything. I suspect your thinning field is about the water table you mentioned and not toxicity. We have a similar situation with canal seep and try as we might it would never grow alfalfa. It grows grass just fine though.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> We have one field that is very rolling, we've never worked it, bought time its 80% grass, 20% alfalfa we no-till right back into it, seems to work. I've also heard autotoxity isn't a real problem until you cut the roots. Not sure, but it does seem to work in this one field.
> 
> Normally though we prefer to burndown in the fall after some regrowth from the last cutting, no-till to corn, then no-till to beans the second year and plant back to hay the third year.
> 
> We've tossed around the ideal on lighter ground to take a very early cutting, wrap it, burn it down then no-till soybeans, plant rye that fall then get it back to alfalfa that fall of the second year. Cover crop seed seems to be in great demand and it seems easy enough to move any extra cereal rye we don't use for our selves as cover seed.


Probably being just 20% alfalfa helps also. Rather then 100%


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Autotoxicity, hits during germination and new seedlings, not established stands (see attached piece page 3). Alfalfa, doesn't like 'wet feet', hence it drowns.

I plant alfalfa, after alfalfa in MY area, after the old stand in killed (6-8 weeks), BUT I am on lighter ground (sandy loam). When I kill off a field (RU), it is normal 30-50% alfalfa yet. I cut late May/early June, let the field re-grow 10-14 days, spray, then spray again the first week of August, plant couple of days later (no-til). In my area 6 weeks is the time period for autotoxicity.

All of this is in MY area and what works for ME.

Larry


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Probably being just 20% alfalfa helps also. Rather then 100%


Definitely, have always got lucky in the past as well, no-till it then get several days of just a light mist to get all the seed germinated.


----------



## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

I never understood the value of crop rotation except to introduce nitrogen (legumes) or to counter the build up to disease or other things like nematodes.

I believe most environmentalists would clammer for rotation or "non-monoculture." What would they say if someone wanted to bulldoze the big redwood forests and plant hemp? After all, if you visit the very old redwood forests, redwoods totally dominate, with only bits of clover and ferns here and there. Been that way for hundreds of thousands of years, so its about time we rotate out of these old trees.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Hugh said:


> I never understood the value of crop rotation except to introduce nitrogen (legumes) or to counter the build up to disease or other things like nematodes.
> 
> I believe most environmentalists would clammer for rotation or "non-monoculture." What would they say if someone wanted to bulldoze the big redwood forests and plant hemp? After all, if you visit the very old redwood forests, redwoods totally dominate, with only bits of clover and ferns here and there. Been that way for hundreds of thousands of years, so its about time we rotate out of these old trees.


i think natural burn forest fires are a form of rotation


----------

