# New stand of alfalfa



## saltwater (Mar 26, 2010)

Has anyone ever let a new stand go to seed to thicken up their stand? If so could innoculant be applied through irrigation system? I know it's not conventional but with the cost of seed I thought it might be worth a shot.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Generaly it would not work the established plants emit autotoxin into the soil and new seeds will not survive.

Besides that you would be giving up a cutting or more of hay to let it go to seed and that would be more dollars than what seed would cost.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

If this stand is less than six months old, you may be able to over seed it now. Wait any longer and the Auto Toxins will have built up to a point that it will kill any new growth alfalfa. (Who knows why Alfalfa decided to evolve this way?) If your stand is thin, you may want to consider seeding in some grass to help thicken and keep the weeds under control. Letting the crop go to seed is just not a good option. Either way, Good Luck.


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## saltwater (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't think it is old enough for the autotoxin to be an issue yet but I know what your saying. I was going to keep the first cutting for my own use anyway and start selling the second. Thanks for the advice. I think the innoculant on my seed was not perfect I have plants that are 1/2 inch tall right next to plants that are 6 inches tall can I add innoculant to help them or is it to late?


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## saltwater (Mar 26, 2010)

I have plants that are still only 1/2 inch tall right by plants that are 6 inches tall was this an innoculant issue?


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## thebonepile (Sep 18, 2009)

I am by no means a large hay producer, but this is what I think.

From what I know, the inoculant only helps to take the nitrogen the is made by the alfalfa plants and FIX it to the ground instead of just letting it goto waste.... unless your inoculant killed a few seeds it probably was not the inoculant' fault.....

You said u have small plants right next to large plants - just give them time - remember this is still a young stand of alfalfa, just beginning to grow, don't cut it too early - wait and let the crop get more mature for all cuttings this year, and make sure you leave plenty of growth at end of season for the crop's first winter......

I am betting it is just an issue iftime of germination - some plants got started right away and the rest waited for a longer, wetter time to sprout and take off - take care of what you got, feed it good, and your second cutting should be better than the first...

Good luck......


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Has anyone ever let a new stand go to seed to thicken up their stand? 
The Autotoxicity thing is not a universal truth, though it is true for some conditions. 
HERE with high pH, heavy clay, soils with droughty summers it is not a factor. Now if I were in one of the humid states, with more sandy soils that tend to be acid, then I would expect alfalfa autotoxicity to be a factor. 
Here it is normal to see new seedlings growing in an old stand of alfalfa. The seedlings may not be able to compete well for light and moisture, but they will for sure thicken up a stand.

If so could innoculant be applied through irrigation system?
The Rhizobia needs to find a root to attach to fairly soon. I have heard of people over seeding a fresh strain of bacteria to an established stand of alfalfa, but I have no idea how well that worked. 
If you soil is in the 7 pH range you may not NEED to inoculate the alfalfa. There probably is enough native Rhizobia for your alfalfa. 
In the Good Old Days people would plant sweet clover the year before planting alfalfa to wake up the resident Rhizobia. 
The reason for coating alfalfa seed is to put a shell of high pH material close to the seed to protect the bacteria from acid soil conditions.


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## saltwater (Mar 26, 2010)

I would like to thank all of you that have responded. It is nice to be able to bounce ideas off of others (especially if they already seem iffy) and not get told I am nuts. I get that enough already because I am married if you know what I mean.


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## haytimer (Oct 15, 2009)

we dont always get to but we try to let our new alfalfa fields get 40% bloom before we take our first cut seems to have healthier root system this way..in our oppinion ideal would be 60% but too many variables..we shoot for a 10 year stand


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

You have received many good answers to your question. Here is another observation-

About the time alfalfa plants go past the 10% bloom stage, new buds initiate growth at the crown. These will grow to be the new stems on the plant. During the course of an alfalfa stand, the crown of each individual plant thickens (widens) and this will help thicken the stand.

The advice you have received relative to not attempting to allow your seedling alfalfa plants to go to seed to thicken the stand is good. This will create quite a mess with plants that have grown tall, fallen over, and then attempted to grow back upward along with new growth buds. I've seen this happen in fields wherein grazing was not initiated for several weeks to a month or more after the 10% bloom stage of growth.

Attempting to apply a spray-on inoculant, and they are available, did not appear to be of much benefit in a situation similar to what you have described. Despite this, the stand did thicken over time using normal harvesting times.


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## steve IN (Jan 13, 2010)

The small plants you are seeing may have been hard seed that did not germinate till later. I have noticed that some varieties have as much as 30% hard seed listed on the tag. They require more moisture and heat t6o germinate. I would not worry to much about What the stand looks like the first year. Looks can be decieving. Remember you have already spent the time and money so give it a year. One thing that a lot of old timers have told me and try to abide by this rule is to always let a new seeding go to full bloom once during the first year. Dont ask me why but it seems to help. Good luck.


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