# How much N on Grass mix hay



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

How much nitrogen are you guys putting on your grass/clover mix hay fields? I was putting about 30 lbs on in spring, along with P and K, then putting chicken litter on after first cutting. Not sure how much N the chicken litter is providing. Doing about 1-1.5 ton/acre of dry layer manure. The fertilizer salesman is trying to push me to 100 lb/acre of N. Seams like a lot. I know I don't want to do much more N first thing in the spring. First cut is already heavy and plenty stemmy. I could do more after first cut, but if we get a lot of rain the chicken manure already makes the hay have plenty of stem. If we don't get rain the fert goes to waste as our soil is thin and prone to drought. Opinions?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nitrogen is going to make leaves and not just stems. I've never heard of anyone putting on so little litter around here. Call me crazy, but it sounds like you're under fertilizing it. I guess it depends some on how high a percentage of clover you have.

Here, with probably similarly poor soil, I start in the spring (or fall sometimes) with 5000 gal of hog manure (that's a lot of N) and I get a plenty difficult to dry first cutting, but it's lots of fancy, leafy hay and for the price I can't possibly come close to chemical fertilizer.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I have a lot of clover. I bet 15%-20% clover The litter I get is dry and is layer, so there isn't any shavings. I was thinking it was something like 4%N, so that still equals 80 lb of N/ton, although not all of it is available right away.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I will normally put down 100 lbs of N in the spring followed by 50 lbs of N after each cutting. We try to put on chicken litter in the fall at 2 tons per acre if available. With that I also put down any micros needed along with 30 lbs of Ams and a lb. or two of boron. Also try to keep our ph at neutral. I have found that having the correct ph is as important as fertilizer.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I used to put down 100#N/ac. but started putting down about 60+#N/ac. the last 5 years. I was told that would help solve alot of my lodging problems and I think it has helped about 50%. I see a small amount of difference in yield and my grass fields(especially Timothy) look one heck of alot better when mowed off now. I put on 30#N/ac. sometime after the first cutting. I usually wait until it rains at least once before application on the second cutting....I also do the micros....especially Sulphur here.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I had been putting about 70 lbs of N in the spring but upped it this year to 85 lbs. I usually use a balanced fertilizer with equal amounts of NPK and some micros and we seem to always need sulfur here. Never have never put any N after first cut but last year I put 30 lbs N after second cut in August to see if it would give me a third cut, which it did of 30 bales an acre. Debating if I should top dress now after first cut or after second in august?


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

Have you ever tested your chicken litter to see the nutrient analysis? If not I suggest it to give a reference point. It can vary greatly depending on how much bedding material is in it and how it was managed in house. We use/sell a lot of broiler litter. It usually runs 50-60 units of N per ton.


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## Liberty1 (Jun 17, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> I had been putting about 70 lbs of N in the spring but upped it this year to 85 lbs. I usually use a balanced fertilizer with equal amounts of NPK and some micros and we seem to always need sulfur here. Never have never put any N after first cut but last year I put 30 lbs N after second cut in August to see if it would give me a third cut, which it did of 30 bales an acre. Debating if I should top dress now after first cut or after second in august?


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## Liberty1 (Jun 17, 2014)

This is a good topic. Here in south central ky most people get 2 cuttings regularly. I want 3. The southern states salesman told me not to worry about putting more fertilize in between cuttings because my clover in te orchard grass is adding nitrogen to the soil and that it wouldn't help the fescue anyway. I'm new to this, but something just doesn't add up here. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Liberty1 said:


> This is a good topic. Here in south central ky most people get 2 cuttings regularly. I want 3. The southern states salesman told me not to worry about putting more fertilize in between cuttings because my clover in te orchard grass is adding nitrogen to the soil and that it wouldn't help the fescue anyway. I'm new to this, but something just doesn't add up here. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


The nitrogen that you're getting from the clover is great and very real, but it's being slowly added at all times. If your goal is an extra cutting, then a quick shot of more readily available N after each cutting will get you to your goal much more confidently.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Liberty1 said:


> This is a good topic. Here in south central ky most people get 2 cuttings regularly. I want 3. The southern states salesman told me not to worry about putting more fertilize in between cuttings because my clover in te orchard grass is adding nitrogen to the soil and that it wouldn't help the fescue anyway. I'm new to this, but something just doesn't add up here. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


What do your soil samples call for?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Most hay advisors suggest 50 lbs of N for each ton of grass hay. That is a good rule of thumb but 12% protein hay will have 40 lbs of N. You can opt for 6% protein with 20 maybe 25 lbs of N.

Mixed clover and grass for hay is a problem. You can fertilize for the clover which will short the grasses for Nitrogen, for HAY. OR you can fertilize for the Grass hay which will eliminate the clovers, in time. Mixed grass & clover works for grazing because so much is returned to the soil by the livestock.

One thing about growing Improved Forages, fertilizer will be needed.

Open range land can do without fertilizers as we get maybe 50 lbs of N with a full season of rain. If you do not get greedy and plan on one animal grazing 105 acres you probably will do well with out fertilizer. 
Note there are some range pastures where one animal to 105 acres is over grazing.

I would expectg your stocking rate would be one animal for 2 to 5 acres, depending on the management.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Here in central pa 50 units before 1st cutting 35 units after . I try to get about 75 to 80 of urea treated with agritain after 1st cutting with a tow spreader .


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

endrow- are you just spreading straight N? I always worry about just putting N on and not replacing your p and K.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I do P&K separate.


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