# Need opinions on a good hay tractor



## FarmerCline

I am looking to get a different tractor for the hayfield this year. I have been looking since last fall and I have not found anything I like. Its not going to be long before I need one and was wanting to know what models of tractors y'all would suggest that I look at. I am looking at buying something I will have for a long time and would prefer John Deere, Massey Ferguson, or International. I do not want a very big tractor( I bought a International 986 last year and was just too large for my liking) but I do want one that has plenty of power for what I want, I was thinking something in the 70 to 90 hp range. I will use it to pull a NH 5070 hayliner, NH 1465 9 foot haybine, and hopefully a Vermeer 604 round baler and a 10 foot NH discbine in a year or two. Definately want something that has a powershift transmission or at least something that allows me drop a gear without hitting the clutch, I also want something that is old enough that can be overhauled when it needs to be and still have a good tractor but I don't want to give up the extra comforts and niceties that I would be nice now for for something just because it could be worked on in the future. Today I saw a John Deere 3020 and a 4020 nearby that interested me somewhat would either of these be a good tractor for what I want? What would be some other models I should look at? Thanks, Hayden.


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## JD3430

What's your price range?


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## somedevildawg

Hayden, price range.....open cab/closed......2-4 wheel drive.......I'm inclined to say, perhaps an older 6-series by Deere with power quad tranny.....


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## Josh in WNY

A 3020/4020 John Deere would not be a bad tractor for what you are talking about doing, but you could also step up a generation or two in green and get a 4030/4230 or newer and be happy. The powershift transmissions of the 20-series were replaced by the quad-shift transmissions in the 30-series and newer, but were still good for what you are doing in my experience. The quad-shift can take a little getting use to though as the gears/ranges overlap (i.e. - 4 gear in B range is faster than 1 gear in C range, etc.).

I have a 4020 that we use mainly on the mower but also on our bale wagon as well as for any tillage work. I try and keep it off of the square baler since the back and forth rocking motion can cause problems with the load shaft seals (which have always been a problem on my particular 4020). The other thing I would be a little worried about on the 20-series is the powershift transmissions. They are good transmissions, but by now they have a lot of hours on them and can be expensive to fix/overhaul.


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## Grateful11

If you're planning on going with a 10' Discbine from what I was told at the Hay Day thing you're going to be wanting to look more in the 90-100hp range especially with you being in the mountains. Wife and son bale with a CaseIH 5140 about 95 on the PTO and it has powershift. She plans on mowing with the new to her Kuhn 8' disc mower conditioner with the JD 5065M about 60hp on the PTO, I'm just not sure it's going to handle it in 4' high Oats. The district Rep. at Hay Day said she would be fine especially on flat ground. If not she's going to have to get a hydraulic hookup multiplier as the CaseIH 5140 only has one set of hookups. I suspect a true powershift is going to be a tough find in something around 70hp in a late model tractor. It seems manufacturers have pushed them into the 100hp and up stuff. JD's 5000M series is available with a 32F/32R which is the as her 5065M 16F/16R but with a switch on the shifter that drops it down about 20% in speed from what I read, not really a true powershift so to speak.​


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## FarmerCline

My price range is quite flexible, I would like to stay under $30,000 but I could swing something a little more than that if it would be exactly what I want. I have never been a big fan of cabs as I like to to be able to hear the machine run to make sure it is working right. If it did have a cab it would be a must that it does not restrict my view of the drawbar area of the tractor. I hadn't thought about 4wd do you think that is something I would need? Thanks, Hayden


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## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> My price range is quite flexible, I would like to stay under $30,000 but I could swing something a little more than that if it would be exactly what I want. I have never been a big fan of cabs as I like to to be able to hear the machine run to make sure it is working right. If it did have a cab it would be a must that it does not restrict my view of the drawbar area of the tractor. I hadn't thought about 4wd do you think that is something I would need? Thanks, Hayden


 You might not Need 4wd, but if you get one that has it you won't want to go back. I haven't seen a two wheel tractor on a tractor lot here in a long time. I think around here if you want a 2wd new tractor it is a special order.


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## FarmerCline

Grateful, I was told the minimum hp required on the discbine was 80 hp and even though my fields have some pretty good hills I do not plan on mowing much faster than about 5 mph so I thought the minimum would be fine since most people now faster than that. If it was not for the fact that I like the design of the 10 foot model better I would go with the 9 foot so I could get away with a smaller tractor.


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## somedevildawg

Hayden, you may not need the 4wd, but if you plan on a loader you will want it, when you go to sell it you will want it, if you ever need it you will want it, I say get it now, unless the deal is to good to pass on.....I'm stickin to the 6 series with power quad, you can get those in that price range....here.


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## Grateful11

I agree with somedevildawg that if you're going for a loader I'd get 4wd. There's one 4wd here a Kubota L3940 with a loader, it's used daily to feed round bales.

The 3 other tractors here are a JD 5065M, a IH 686 with a M&W turbo putting out 106hp and a CaseIH 5140 are all 2wd. The way my wife looks at it if it's too wet in the field for 2wd then it's too wet to be in there to begin with.

I'll let you know how the JD handles the 8' Kuhn discbine in a week or so. I will say this that the guys she got the Kuhn from went to Clapp Brothers in Siler City and they asked what tractors they had and they told them they weren't discbine material. They had a 50 some hp NH tractor and they just left and went somewhere else and bought the Kuhn and he said it handled fine but they weren't cutting anything but Orchard grass at about 10" high.


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## FarmerCline

Somedevildawg, I am not very familiar with the 6 series deere you mention, is there a particular model of the 6 series that you would recommend? I guess the way feel about the 4wd is if it is that's a plus but if it doesn't it would not be a deal breaker on a good tractor. I agree that if I was going to get a loader the 4wd would be needed but I had not planned on this being a loader tractor. I do need a different loader tractor but I would prefer that my main hay tractor would not have a loader. I am beginning to get nervous about being this close to hay season and not having a reliable tractor to put in the hayfield.


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## JD3430

Get one with a detachable loader. Then you have best of both worlds. Both my tractors have loaders and I don't know what I'd do without them.
The other nice thing about 4wd is when you decend a steep hill with a discbine behind you, if you're in 4wd, the front wheels provide engine braking instead of only the rear wheels.


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## blueridgehay

If it were me, I'd look at some of the JD series 5420 to 5520. The 5520 will be close to the horsepower you need. I definitely go with 4wd. I think that you can get close to your price range. I got a 5085m last year, which is 85 horsepower and I really like it.


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## somedevildawg

Hayden, I would search 6400, 6410, 6420, or maybe 6430, different years, 6430 being the latest. There is a 6420 with power quad on eBay (or was) 30k with 1000 hrs.....think it was 2- wheel, maybe it was 4 can't remember....good luck


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## Gearclash

I'm going to suggest the other color here, and based on what you've said I'd say take a look at an open station 5200 series CIH Maxxum. They have a 16 speed trans as either a 4spd power shift or as a pretty user friendly synchro. They all have a left hand reverser. For $30K you could have a very nice low hour 2wd tractor.


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## Grateful11

Gearclash said:


> I'm going to suggest the other color here, and based on what you've said I'd say take a look at an open station 5200 series CIH Maxxum. They have a 16 speed trans as either a 4spd power shift or as a pretty user friendly synchro. They all have a left hand reverser. For $30K you could have a very nice low hour 2wd tractor.


and it has a very reliable 6 cyl. Cummins engine in it. They're nice reliable tractors, I've seen them online with 10,000 hours on them and still going. The one here has about 1400 hours on it. I remember my late FIL saying it had a few solenoid problems right after he got it and the rubber fuel lines have been replaced and it's been converted to R134a freon but that's about it other routine maintenance.

This is it after it was cleaned it up a couple years ago, she washes it quite often but only to this degree once in a while:


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## FarmerCline

Well I looked up the John Deere 64xx tractors and it seems that those or the 63xx would work for me. My main concern with these tractors are they going to be something that years down the road could be overhauled or do they have too many electronic gizmos and computers to feasibly do that. It is hard to tell from pictures but they seem to be quite a large tractor would you say that size wise that they would be smaller than a IH 986? It also seems that most of them have cabs, maybe it was just the cab on the 986 I did not like as it seem to greatly restrict my view of the ground directly around the tractor. On these John Deeres how much do the cabs restrict your view, can you see the drawbar and lift arms from the operators seat? I looked up the JD 5520 and I could be wrong but it seemed to be more of an "economy" tractor and it did not appear to have a powershift between the forward speeds.


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## somedevildawg

You're right about the 5520....that's a beautiful case in the previous post, wonder if she's for sale....not many like that. I think the 6400- 6410 series might have been free of all electronics and gadgets, but you may have to go back to the 4450 series of tractors to get one "old school". But speaking of old school, the visibility WAS a problem in most of the older cab tractors, no matter the make, just natural field research that has developed the high visibility cabs we have today, I can purty much see everything from the cab, I often remove my FEL so as to increase visibility, so I understand how important it is.....most newer tractors don't have the A/c ducted in the ceiling either, again I think just field research made them improve on that design. Power quad has proven to be a reliable tranny.

Size well, on 7 series frame tractors you have 3 steps to enter the cab, 6 series generally has 2 (6715 I used to have had 3) 
My 5 series only has one.....not sure if that helps, curb weight, hp, hydro flow, all more important parameters to determine size, but....it works for me, I hate steps....

You are right about the cabs as well, you very rarely see 6 series open stations tractors but they are out there, lots down here mowing roads.


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## FarmerCline

Thanks for the info. It sounds like the 6410 may be the way to go to get the newest thing without all the electronic stuff. When I was talking about size I meat the overall bulk of the tractor such as height and width. The 986 seemed to be a huge tractor for 100 hp. If you say visibility is improved that much in the newer cab tractors it makes me wonder if I should give a cab another chance, it sure would be nice to sit in that ac when it's 100 degrees. I have never been in a newer cab tractor like that I guess I need to find one to test it out and see if I like it or not.


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## Fowllife

I'm going to go against the grain here a little. If you want something that is rebuildable, and you know won't be a boat anchor in 15 years I think you need to stay with something made no later then the 80's or early 90's. I understand what you are saying about frame size vs HP. It's going tp be tough to find what you are looking for there I think. The IH 67x & 68x have a smaller frame, but are also only 60ish pto HP. The IH 7xx & 8xx series will have a frame size slightly smaller then your 986, but may still be larger then you want. A JD 2840 will get you into the 70 pto hp range & still be a smaller frame & open station. That would be the direction I would probably head. The older White/Oliver's are also real good tractors, but the majority are also large frames. I think the Ford 6610 or maybe ever 7610 would also work good for you.

I'm also going to say forget the loader. Chances are an older loader tractor will have a wore out front end. By the time you buy a loader to put on a tractor that doesn't have one you are almost to the price you could get a skid loader. I was dead set on getting a loader on my next tractor until I got a shid loader a month ago, now there is now way I will. The skid loader is so much more nimble.

I also wouldn't worry about FWA unless you had a need for it. If you buy the tractor right & take care of it resale will not be an issue. If you have cattle & feed round bales in the mud though then a FWA loader tractor would be a good choice.

Finally, just because you have a max $ amount doesn't mean you need to get to it. Find a nice older tractor in the $10-15k range and a skid loader in the $5-10k range and save the rest of the cash.

edit, forgot the Fords


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## Dill

I'd say stay away from the 2840s. They have a terrible reputation in this area. 2640s are great as are 2940s.
Most of what my father and I run is probably low on the Hp scale for you especially for that size mower. I run a MF 265 and a MF271XE the 265 is excellent, even lower than low tech, and just sips fuel. My father has Deeres a 2440, 5410, and a 5500. He picked the 5500 up last summer and I'm really impressed with it. Just 10 hp more, but with our 8ft discbines it makes a difference in thick hay.
My brother runs a MX135 CIH, it has some insane hours on it, 13.5k I think. Plus its a university tractor so its had quite a few operators. They just had to redo a gear range, which was huge money, but that motor will last forever.


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## mlappin

I run Oliver and Whites, the Olivers depending on the year were quite simple, you get into the xx55 series then they went to a variable displacement closed center hydraulic pump while the older ones were open center gear pumps. With a service manual even the closed center systems aren't that hard to fix.

My Whites use a lot of the same parts as the xx55 series Olivers, same style Over/Under, transmissions, PTO's and hydraulics for the most part. I have two 1987 White 2-110's that have been nothing but reliable.

Later series Oliver's and all the older Whites used a 6 speed transmission with a 3 range powershift for a total of 18 forward gears and 6 reverse gears.

It all depends on your comfort level of having to do repairs.

We have one much newer Massey Ferguson FWA tractor on the farm and while it's very nice to run, practically any repair from the front of the cab back is a royal PITA.


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## somedevildawg

Was operating a older tractor today spraying peanuts and thought about you farmercline, everytime I got in and out and had to get through the climb to squeezing through the narrow passage to the operators cabin, I thought of you. Everytime I had to switch the booms on and aff and had to wrestle with that damned rear window, you came to mind...visibility wasn't an issue as all I was doing was spraying, GPS (an innovation) was guiding me, paid 10k for the tractor, runs good, everything works, nothing computerized about this baby, a/c blows cold, even if it is straight down on you, kinda loud in the cabin but better than some.....7k hours.....I sure was missing my 6420 after a few acres, but hey, it done the J O B .....if it were me, I go up a few years, just my opin


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## FCF

Like some said earlier I would look at a 5200 series CIH Maxxum, may be even the 5100 series, Can get them equiped about any way you desire. If about 80 HP is all you need/want the 5X20 size has a four cylinder engine making it shorter and better handling. Yes, I have a 5220. Got it 3 years ago, cab, AC, power shift in 4 gears, with 2100 hours and paid a little over 20K. Have been very happy with it.


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## FarmerCline

Somedevildawg, I appreciate the insight. I will for sure get something newer if I go for a cab tractor. I would really like to have a cab tractor when it's hot out but I got turned away from them as the only ones I have been in were older, I am glad to hear the new ones are much improved. I really would like to test one out in the hayfield before I buy but i doubt that will happen. It sounds like the 6410 may be the best compromise between comfort and simplicity, I will have to look into some of these case internationals that others are suggesting also. In the meantime I went by to see the 3020 and 4020 that were nearby today and I loved the powershift and overall the whole tractor. I would have liked to have bought the 4020 but I felt they were asking a bit much for it. I bought the 3020 for $6000 it has 5,500 hours and seemed to be in above average shape I just wish it had the side console like the 4020 had. I figured that I would go ahead and buy the 3020 as it will do what I need it to do this year. This way I can take my time and find the right tractor for what I need because I sure did not want to spend a pile of money on a tractor I really did not want just because I needed one right away.


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## somedevildawg

That's a good price for the 3020, it'll be a good utility tractor for you....


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## Hokelund Farm

Cline - have you found a more permanent option or are you still running the 3020?

I'm personally looking for a IH 756 but this JD 2940 looks tempting.
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8812997


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## FarmerCline

Hokelund Farm said:


> Cline - have you found a more permanent option or are you still running the 3020?I'm personally looking for a IH 756 but this JD 2940 looks tempting.http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8812997


 I think I just sold that particular 3020. I drove many different brands when I was tractor shopping and I kept coming back to JD. I'm not knocking any other brands......JD just seem to be right for me. I replaced the first 3020 with a 3020 gas that has very low hours and a 4020 that I bought this year.....both powershifts. The powershift tranny is great for baling hay. I seem to have caught the tractor bug as I still would like to find another tractor.....maybe a 4230 or similar.....one can never have too many tractors.....right?

Now before every thinks I bleed green I want to shed some light on my IH 986. For those of you that remember or look back at my posts from over a year ago you may notice that I did not like the 986 very much.....I would like to clear that up and explain. When I bought that tractor I was still quite new to farming and tractors in general and I thought I wanted a bigger tractor than I had and with air. I found the 986 with low hours and I bought it and liked it until everybody around home told me I payed way too much for it and I got a bad case of buyers remorse and it really soured my feelings on the tractor. It was also a much larger tractor than I was used to and was not accustomed to being in a cab and not seeing ground under my feet......those things combined made me park the tractor in the back of the shed and not move it for a year. A year later I saw I actually needed that size of tractor and started using some and the more I used it the more I liked it.


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## mlappin

It all depends on what your used to.

Absolutely love my grandfathers 1600, light and nimble with good visibility. Also have a 77, 770, 88 and a 880, like all those too. Have a Oliver 1755 which is a 1855/1955 sans turbo, its alright but the lack of a turbo is sure noticeable on hills pulling the v-rake, not near the lugging ability as the 1855. Also have two White 2-110's, a White 4-175 and two White 4-210's like all those as well. Even have two Massey's, a 4880 and a 8160. Like the 8160 and the 4880 is good for scaring on coming traffic off the road. But I absolutely hate Fathers Oliver 2255. Same controls, transmission, etc as the 1755 and 1855 but I just don't like it, of course it has a Cat 3208 and a person got real tired of that when it was still a open station tractor before Dad found a cab for it. Not a lot of rhyme or reason to it, but I just don't like that particular one.


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## deadmoose

mlappin said:


> It all depends on what your used to.
> Absolutely love my grandfathers 1600, light and nimble with good visibility. Also have a 77, 770, 88 and a 880, like all those too. Have a Oliver 1755 which is a 1855/1955 sans turbo, its alright but the lack of a turbo is sure noticeable on hills pulling the v-rake, not near the lugging ability as the 1855. Also have two White 2-110's, a White 4-175 and two White 4-210's like all those as well. Even have two Massey's, a 4880 and a 8160. Like the 8160 and the 4880 is good for scaring on coming traffic off the road. But I absolutely hate Fathers Oliver 2255. Same controls, transmission, etc as the 1755 and 1855 but I just don't like it, of course it has a Cat 3208 and a person got real tired of that when it was still a open station tractor before Dad found a cab for it. Not a lot of rhyme or reason to it, but I just don't like that particular one.


What chores does each of them get? I knew you didn't like hooking unhooking hay equipment. Do you unhook anything?


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## mlappin

Back in the day when we had the dairy I wore out two New Holland 495's behind a Super 88 diesel. 77, 770 or another 88 might have been on the Van Dale TMR mixer. 880 had a Kelly loader on it for cleaning barns. 1855 was the blower tractor for a good while, also helped to finish wearing out the second NH495.

2255 would handle the chisel plowing in the spring while the 1855 was on a 8 row corn planter. Cultivated a lot of corn and beans with the 1600 as well. Once summer rolled around the 2255 would run the forage chopper. Had a White 4-150 in their somewhere as well.

Now I still need to finish restoring the 2255 if I can ever find enough "spare" transmission parts. 1855 is on the vertical TMR, 1600 is on the tedder, 1755 is on the v-rake. One 2-110 is on the mower with the other on the baler. The 4-175 is set up with a 750 gallon spray tank over the rear axle and handles all the burndown and other spraying, also does the side dressing, take the spray boom off and put a 16 row 28 applicator we built out of a Brillion 16 row cultivator and no-till blade assemblies off a great plains coulter caddy. One 4-210 handles the 16 row corn planter, with the other 4-210 for a spare or any light tillage needed. Massey 4880 handles the coulter cart at half throttle no problem or is used if somebody in the neighborhood buries something. 8160 is used on the 30' Hiniker bean planter and on the grain cart in the fall.

Most of the time once all of the hay equipment is hooked up it won't get unhooked from that tractor till fall when it gets put away. Ditto on planting as well. Each tractor stays to what it's hooked to till where done, but it's also not uncommon for one of us to be planting corn while the other plants beans at the same time.

Come fall once the cows are in the winter pasture the 1855 will come off the vertical TMR and one of the 2-110's go on, real nice to have a heated cab when it's zero with a 20 mph wind and you have to drive the half mile of no mans land from where we grind to feed back to the woods to the portable bunks. Anything low enough gets parked in the feed aisle where the cows are fed in the summer. Bean head, corn head, grain cart, and both Massey tractors goto a barn on a rental property in the next county for the winter. Baler and several other tractors including the backhoe goes into another aisle. One 4-210 and the 4-175 goto a cousins house in his barn that he doesn't use. Discbine, V-rake, tedder, and the other 2-110 go into a alley in the old cow barn. End up with the skid steer in front of one alley and the JD 401C at the front of the other right next to a recep so they can be plugged in. Both combines and 2 grain trucks go into a hoop building that the corn planter and bean planter are already parked in. Seems like it takes days to get everything put away at the end of the year, some stuff comes out of this alley and into a different, etc.

Was working on placing those 2x2x6 blocks for another hoop building just to park the hay/grain trucks and the semi in, should make things a bit easier then.

Was working on it that is until we got 1 1/2" of rain in a very short time, its a mud pit now. Might not be able to get back to that until first of next week.


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## Bgriffin856

If you can find one in good shape how about an IH 766D?

Seem to be a perfect all around tractor. I've always one a blackstripe with narrow front....doubt I ever will though


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## calmwi

I only use an IH 826 hydro on my baler and won't use anything other than a hydro. We still stack on wagons so power shift can be a problem. Hard to find them though.


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## shortrow

My opinion is.................Ford 7610. Most versatile tractor I've ever owned.


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## shortrow

shortrow said:


> My opinion is.................Ford 7610. Most versatile tractor I've ever owned.


No editing here.


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## opcruzer

Fowllife said:


> I'm going to go against the grain here a little. If you want something that is rebuildable, and you know won't be a boat anchor in 15 years I think you need to stay with something made no later then the 80's or early 90's. I understand what you are saying about frame size vs HP. It's going tp be tough to find what you are looking for there I think. The IH 67x & 68x have a smaller frame, but are also only 60ish pto HP. The IH 7xx & 8xx series will have a frame size slightly smaller then your 986, but may still be larger then you want. A JD 2840 will get you into the 70 pto hp range & still be a smaller frame & open station. That would be the direction I would probably head. The older White/Oliver's are also real good tractors, but the majority are also large frames. I think the Ford 6610 or maybe ever 7610 would also work good for you.
> 
> I'm also going to say forget the loader. Chances are an older loader tractor will have a wore out front end. By the time you buy a loader to put on a tractor that doesn't have one you are almost to the price you could get a skid loader. I was dead set on getting a loader on my next tractor until I got a shid loader a month ago, now there is now way I will. The skid loader is so much more nimble.
> 
> I also wouldn't worry about FWA unless you had a need for it. If you buy the tractor right & take care of it resale will not be an issue. If you have cattle & feed round bales in the mud though then a FWA loader tractor would be a good choice.
> 
> Finally, just because you have a max $ amount doesn't mean you need to get to it. Find a nice older tractor in the $10-15k range and a skid loader in the $5-10k range and save the rest of the cash.
> 
> edit, forgot the Fords


I have to disagree with only one part here, the skidloader for $5-10 as they don't exist and should you find one they will be beat and have very little life left.


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## carcajou

Well that's an old thread brought back to life.


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## FarmerCline

carcajou said:


> Well that's an old thread brought back to life.


 Yep, sure is. Interesting reading back on one of my threads I started 5 years ago......sure have came a long way since then.

For those wondering I'm now running a JD 6420 and 7510 as my main hay tractors. It looks like dawgs recommendation of a 6 series or similar Deere is what won......awesome hay tractors. I still have that 4020 and 3020 I had bought back in 2014 though. That 4020 turned out to be a money pit though and I have been having it repaired as I could afford it.....hoping to have it in a hayfield on a rake this summer finally. Not sure how I'm going to like using an open station tractor now that I have gotten accustomed to a cab.....won't ever buy another tractor without a cab.

Hayden


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## somedevildawg

Welcome to haytalk opcruzer.....we need that every once in a while, it reminds us where we came from  still ain't sure where we're going


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