# Rebale rounds to square



## robert23239 (May 10, 2009)

Hello all,

So i have seen equipment and read a few things about the conversion but one thing that I see is the compression of round bales. Once the hay is compressed is it truly possible to reblale it again. I have tried one bale, on a possible 1000 pound bale I got 16 squares and weren't more than 45 pounds. . I just done it by hand with not equipment I fluffed it up as much as I could. 
I know the round bales aren't compressed like a square but I would say they are compressed some what. 
I see a lot of waste. I set the coompression light and the hay I have to say looked a bit skewed compared to a fresh bale.

Does it really pay ?

Robert


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I have never been all that impressed with produced from RB's. I can understand much of the rationalization but it is more work & expense. Not to mention the waste or lost forage.

The best Poor Mans Method I have seen was to unroll a RB and then rake it with a rotory rake.


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## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

I did some rebaling last year, and was relatively satisfied. My horse hay customers had no problem with it. I had the chute set pretty tight, and fed everything my hand trying to figure it out. It had to be fluffed up pretty good to work well, but the bales actually came out very nice. I think the making money side of it comes if you can by the rolls really cheap. Our market around here on rounds is extremely depressed as most people do not want them any longer. Customers either want big or small squares. At auction around here nice bales of good grass are only bring 60-80 ton, and small squares the same stuff are bringing 125-165. Not to bad of a spread if your travel distances are not too far. Planning on building my own machine to unroll in front of baler this winter.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

I have a machine I will sell for $6,000.

Rebaling works very good for certain types of hay. Premium alfalfa is a disaster. You will have more leaf shatter. The biggest thing you have to watch is buying hay. Most people baling rd bales don't know what they are doing! That is a strong statement, but it is true! Rd bales are very forgiving for poor harvest conditions and poor management. And when you buy the hay, you will often be very supurised at what is inside;.) Also buy the hay by the ton. Many "1000lb" bales only weigh 450lb.


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## haytimer (Oct 15, 2009)

[Q Most people baling rd bales don't know what they are doing! That is a strong statement, but it is true! Rd bales are very forgiving for poor harvest conditions and poor management. And when you buy the hay, you will often be very supurised at what is inside;.) Also buy the hay by the ton. Many "1000lb" bales only weigh 450lb.[/QUOTE]








..ggrrrr


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Production Acres said:


> I have a machine I will sell for $6,000.
> 
> Rebaling works very good for certain types of hay. Premium alfalfa is a disaster. You will have more leaf shatter. The biggest thing you have to watch is buying hay. Most people baling rd bales don't know what they are doing! That is a strong statement, but it is true! Rd bales are very forgiving for poor harvest conditions and poor management. And when you buy the hay, you will often be very supurised at what is inside;.) Also buy the hay by the ton. Many "1000lb" bales only weigh 450lb.












I wouldn't say most,a few yes.
Seen some guys sq baling that don't know what they are doing also.
Yea they are more forgiving,so use it to my advatage.
I most always sell by the ton because my bales are solid and heavy and it is the most fair way.

At a sale barn guy was selling some 3 x 3 soft center rd bales by the bale.Auctioneer said about 500#.Guy that bought them wieghed them,300#,he was getting more for them than sm sqrs were bringing.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I tried the unrolling thing too. Looks good on paper and the numbers work on the right product, BUT a lot of waste if you are looking too sell horse quality. I bought from a friend who had decent bales stored inside but when you discard outside surface (bleached color-bird crap-discolored bottom) and the occasional musty core and add all the loss of fines through the baler it really adds up.

The bales that worked the best were the ones that were baled off a heavy, consistant windrow.

I used a Kuhn/DeRuben hydraulic unroller(for sale-$1000) in front of a 575 NH into Bale Bandit. 1 operator to run controls of that outfit, 1 to cut and pull strings, 1 to run skidloader to load rounds and stack bundles. Everybody very busy to do 1000 in a day and enough waste to feed a lot of beefers for a week.

It has been a few years and I hope times don't get that hard that I consider it again.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

If you don't like what I am saying fine, if you CO, or WY or UT and have an arid climate, fine, the locals may do a better job, but what percentage of rd balers have an onboard moisture tester installed, and what percentage have a perservative applicator. I know that east of the Miss river one cannot make a quantity of good hay without both! And I also know that less than 1% of the rd balers I see advertised are equiped to make good hay!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

One thing about the typical Western Hay Grower, hay is their primary crop, posivbly their only crop. 
I believe one has 3,000 to 5,000 acres in alfalfa (it is not polite to ask) has three 4X4X8 balers running most nights for three weeks running. Has a Summer hay crew of better than 50 trained and qualified men.

For most of these growers damp hay is not a problem but hay that is too dry can be. In that case they may bale with stem moisture to hold the leaves and use an acid applicator to stop the mold.

I have heard of growers who bale a circle that has other circles irrigating to give the humidity a boost.

I would say most of the western growers use a humidity detector to bale by more than a moisture tester.

For the record to hold leaves the humidity in a windrow needs to be in the 65% range. These growers have an alarm that is activated when the humidity gets what ever percentage that is set.

Growers in the Humid East have different climatic conditions that they must work with. I can have sympathy for both as I get to work with a humid climate in March thru June and an arid climate for July & August. I never know what to expect in September & October.

Every area has it's own climate, soil, and management requirements that we have to adapt to.

Give my regards to Gary Bates the next time you see him.


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## CBennett5 (Oct 10, 2012)

*Check out this new bale converter on the market. www.alisonfarms.com*


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Have a friend that has a unroller and a square baler in a big warehouse. He said it works ok, but leaf shatter is a problem, so much of a problem that the workers have a hard time standing it! With wheat straw, almost impossible. I think if you immediately unrolled it in the first 48 hours or so it would work much better. Only advantage I can see is if you are in a tight window, you could roll it real fast and come back in a barn and square, just think you need to be Johnny on the spot to get it to work well.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I did re-bale a few rounds for my buyer last May. I didn't even have a square, he wanted square BAD. It was a real PIA, I could sure have used that machine!!
I unrolled the 5x6 rolls with the forks. Tried to just follow with the square, it didn't like that a bit. I did a lot better when I broke the packed stuff up with the rake. The rounds weighed 1,000# avg, I got an avg of 22 squares @ $5 each, instead of the $40 I was getting for the rounds.

Knowing what I know now, I have considered investing in an unroller for times like now, there are some rounds in the area, but it's too wet to bale anything, and he's having to drive a long way to the squares he needs.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tell him to drive north on 75 I have plenty, for now I should say, can deliver if he wants a semi load, shouldn't be real expensive. A nice commission awaits







. Beats the hell out of rebaling!


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> Tell him to drive north on 75 I have plenty, for now I should say, can deliver if he wants a semi load, shouldn't be real expensive. A nice commission awaits
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I should see him tomorrow, I'll run it by him.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If your going to rebale, unless you have a way to add moisture as it's unrolling trying to rebale alfalfa would be a disaster in my opinion. I store all my hay in hoop buildings and even in a few months hay that was baled around 20% with Hayguard will be too dry for my handheld to even get a reading. I think the lowest it goes is 14%. Would most likely work well with certain grasses though.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

mlappin said:


> . Would most likely work well with certain grasses though.


I can see anything with leaves, such as alfalfa or thin stuff like jiggs wouldn't work. I was re-baling Hemarthria. There were a few stems left, but not many. I'd do it again, pulling my tedder over it & raking it back up would make it bale much easier. I learned a lot that first time!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Friend of mine bought a brand new unroller setup for rebaling. He did maybe 5 bales before parking the thing. Dusty, lot of waste, a lot of work. I think he sold it and bought more thrower wagons.

It did look ideal for feeding out round bales. Spit the sheets of hay out nicely.


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## CBennett5 (Oct 10, 2012)

Devildawg - would you mind telling me what type of unroller your friend has?
Just curious!


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

A couple of points. 
First off bermudagrass is worse about shattering leaves than alfalfa. Only thing is a bale of bermudagrass stems looks reasonably good while a bale of alfalfa stems looks like a bunch of sticks

Round baling at 65% humidity rolling out 16% moisture hay. side by side with a small square baler the RBs will be one ( 1 ) full percent Crude Protein lower.

Think of the cost. Say $25 a baling cost for 5 X 5.5 ft bales, With 25 squares in a round bale that is $1/bale starting out.
A realistic baling cost for the square baler is $1.50 for a total baling cost of $2.50/Sq Bale.
This is before any dry matter loss from leaf shattering. Say 15% fewer bales due to leaf shatter.

Hay that starts out as >12% CP in a round bale is lucky to test 10% CP. Rebaled very likely will test 8% CP or less.

Horse owning hay buyers, almost universally are a poor judge of hay quality. No matter they make up for it by feeding grain, and or cubes, or sack feed.

Now for horses that have a tendency to founder, rebaling round bales to small square bales may be worth something to them.

BUT *if you are selling "Horse Hay" in the Houston market, be my guest*.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Round baling at 65% humidity rolling out 16% moisture hay. side by side with a small square baler the RBs will be one ( 1 ) full percent Crude Protein lower.


I'll argue that, I look at 16% as getting too dry. At 16% you can see a trail of leaves under almost any baler, under 16% and it will look like a streak of grass from the road. I like to start round baling at 19% and be done at 17% or before it gets down to 17%. A shot of Hayguard at 19% doesn't cost that much. Another way to avoid leaf loss on a round baler, don't drive slow and don't make dinky little rows. Keep it running at maximum capacity so your not tumbling the hay around in the baler over and over. I like to be able to make a 1000lb bale in 30 seconds or less. If your fields are too rough to drive fast enough to keep the baler full then make bigger rows or better yet tear em up and start over. I like mine to be a sheet of glass.

Pictures of some first cutting at a guys farm that had bought it the week before. They opened it up hand feed calves off of, sat outside for a week and had several days of showers and snow showers so it lost some color. Sold it for $100/bale last year before the drought. Doesn't look like it dropped a lot of leaves to me.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_I agree with Marty.Keep the baler full and you don't loose many leaves.And when baling with a dew the bottom of windrow dries last and thats what is on the outside of the bale as it is forming.No more leaf loss with a rd baler then a sm sq baler if baled correctly._


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I'll argue that, I look at 16% as getting too dry. At 16% you can see a trail of leaves under almost any baler, under 16% and it will look like a streak of grass from the road. I like to start round baling at 19% and be done at 17% or before it gets down to 17%. A shot of Hayguard at 19% doesn't cost that much. Another way to avoid leaf loss on a round baler, don't drive slow and don't make dinky little rows. Keep it running at maximum capacity so your not tumbling the hay around in the baler over and over. I like to be able to make a 1000lb bale in 30 seconds or less. If your fields are too rough to drive fast enough to keep the baler full then make bigger rows or better yet tear em up and start over. I like mine to be a sheet of glass.
> 
> Pictures of some first cutting at a guys farm that had bought it the week before. They opened it up hand feed calves off of, sat outside for a week and had several days of showers and snow showers so it lost some color. Sold it for $100/bale last year before the drought. Doesn't look like it dropped a lot of leaves to me.


I agree with Mlappin 100% On our dairy farm we bought a BR7060 with "Bale Slice" with the intent to bale wet hay only . Approx. 1000 wet bales per year . As for the dry hay we sell.. Our plan was to continue to do as much as we could in small squares and hire out 1500 - 2000 bales to be customed baled in 3x3x8.as we had been doing it that way for years. . We started to experiment baling some of our resale Alfalfa Orchard grass mixes. We bale all dry hay alfalfa and [email protected]% - 21 % moisture and wetter if it looks like rain using Buffered Acid. . We are beginning to think at those moisture levels we have better quality hay in rounds than big squares. Most of the hay jockeys around here think "round bales " is a bad word .Lots of guys round here buy a $1500 round baler and roll up nothing old junk hay giving round bales a bad name . .


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

Has anyone ever heard of or used T's EZ-Unroller?

http://www.simpsonunroller.com/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Cbennet, not sure about he brand, although I think it was made somewhere here in Georgia, but not sure, ill try to find out for ya. It was shaped like V and it tumbled and rolled the bales. It was yellow. I'll try to ind out for you.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*mlappin I can not fault you logic, for your climate. *

Here the evening before baling the hay is stem snapping dry, Figure 10% moisture,

The next morning around 10 am at 70% RH the leaves are 30% moisture, or more. while the stems are 10% moisture, or less. The hay bales between 18% & 20% moisture, with an occasional flake to 22% moisture.

Then we have 3 hours maybe a little longer before the hay is to dry to bale and leaf shatter is excessive.

The two times I square baled the same time as the Round baler was going was becouse I needed 100 square bales. Those days in less than one hour the hay was too dry to bale. This was last year when it was really dry.

In a country where the humidity does not drop to 20% but hold up Indiana humidities, might have me doing things differently.

The humidity I am talking about is measured down next to the windrow not up at eye level.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Cbennet, it s the T's unroller, post right above mine had it, didn't c it, thats the one this guy has, I'll ask how well it works, he seemed to think it worked good. Thanks Newman for that post.


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