# Teaching a youngster to operate the equipment



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Some friends of mine have a 17 year old boy, real big kid, probably 6'2" and 250 pounds if I were to guess. He's a real nice kid, seems responsible. I just learned the other night he wants some summer work but wants the real serious jobs that require hard work. His ideal job would be to work on a horse farm mucking stalls, painting fences, and putting up hay. So that was a no brainer to add him to my baling crew.

He's a pretty responsible driver but has never driven a tractor. I've been thinking about it and think I would like to teach him to run the equipment. There's several things that motivate my reasons...first being I would have loved the opportunity when I was his age, it could really be of help to me if a field needed tedding or raking and I wasn't able to leave work to go do it, and his dad was a veteran who passed away 9 months ago due to complications from PTSD and now he's fatherless but trying hard to take care of his mom, and an active male role model in his life who can 'teach' him some of these things would probably be good.

But I'm trying to assess how wise of an idea this is. There is a risk to my equipment putting a newbie on there. There's a risk to his safety (I do carry liability insurance). I can spend time with him, teach him safety and how to operate, and watch him do it. I might not consider this with everybody but he's got a good head on his shoulders, and I can't pass up anybody who WANTS to work hard. I'm thinking of maybe starting him on the tedder since that's pretty safe.

Also--is learning or training time paid time?

What do you see yourselves doing if you were in this situation?


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

In Ag I feel that learning or training time is paid. Especially to younger workers as pay is what motivates them. Yes you are going to have some risk to your equipment and that is unfortunate but its part of the game. Your on the right track about starting him on the simpler jobs to learn how to operate tractors. Eventually he'll be able to learn other thigns like mowing or baling. Usually you can always get a read on people when you watch them at first if they're cautious or not. Some are real careful and others are anvil wreckers.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

ditto what he said.....Tedder is a good place to start. A word of warning, some folks do not have the right aptitude to operate equipment safely and effectively. You should know rather quickly if he falls into that category. I have three guys that help me, two full time, but one will never see the tractor seat unless I'm really in a bind and tedding is the job.....he's the only one that said he was an equipment operator  the others had never operated eq before and were younger than 17.....they are very good operators today, would trust with any piece of eq I own.....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

That is a honorable effort you are making in getting involved in the young mans life as a role model. Teach him how to drive the tractor and the safety objectives that go along with it and see how he handles it. Have him hook onto a hay wagon and pull it around. Speed is almost always the undoing of operators, teach him how to go at a good pace but never too fast. I wish you and him luck.

Regards, Mike


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I have three boys myself and have taught one or two before I had mine . My oldest son is 15 he can run everything I own . My second son is 14 he scares me when he runs the zero turn lawn mower that is his limit. Youngest son is twelve he does a much better job and may start him on tedders this summer. My thing is do the lawnmower test and go from there.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I have high schoolers working for me for quite a few years--mucking stalls, fixing fence, moving hay, handling horses, etc.

I usually go pretty slow at the start. First, they must be 16, have a driver's license and a mode of transportation. (I do not want parents chauffeuring them!)

I go through a routine after a few days of asking them what their job is working for me. They'll say "Cleaning stalls", "Putting up hay", and other things. I keep saying "No" until they run out of answers and ask me what it is. Then I say "Your job is to make my job easier." I go on to explain that if they see I am doing something, they should anticipate what I am going to need and have it ready to go. If they see something is broken or needs repair, either fix it or tell me about. I tell them that accidents happen--if they break something, tell me about. I might be upset because I don't like things getting broken, but if they don't tell me, I'll be really PO'ed. I also tell them that if I catch them in a lie, they are gone!!

I'll repeat this 3-4 times in the first month.

So far, I've only had one young girl that didn't measure up!

I also pay the going hourly rate plus $1-2. And I do not withhold income tax and social security. I simply do not believe it is moral or ethical to pay someone just starting to learn to work a low wage and then take 1/3rd of it from them!! (I "gift" them the pay.) I don't care how desperate the governments are for dollars--it just ain't right!

I ease them up to more and more responsibility and independence as I see they can handle it.

Just my thoughts....

Ralph

Ralph


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Another thought:

Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, had this to say about standards in his annual report to the stock holders:

"I believe high standards are teachable," Bezos writes. "In fact, people are pretty good at learning high standards simply through exposure. High standards are contagious. Bring a new person onto a high standards team, and they'll quickly adapt. The opposite is also true. If low standards prevail, those too will quickly spread. And though exposure works well to teach high standards, I believe you can accelerate that rate of learning by articulating a few core principles of high standards."

Kids nowadays need someone to set high standards. We are doing ourselves, them and the future by setting high standards.

More thoughts.....

Ralph


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> ditto what he said.....Tedder is a good place to start. A word of warning, some folks do not have the right aptitude to operate equipment safely and effectively. You should know rather quickly if he falls into that category. I have three guys that help me, two full time, but one will never see the tractor seat unless I'm really in a bind and tedding is the job.....he's the only one that said he was an equipment operator  the others had never operated eq before and were younger than 17.....they are very good operators today, would trust with any piece of eq I own.....


I would say a rake would be better but that depends on what it is. In these parts we started our tractor driving skills with a rollabar. Now everything is so wide and complicated it's hard to find a good place to start with a youngster.

I would start him around the yard just moving stuff around with tractors to see how he does with the basics. Without knowing your type of operation and equipment it is hard to know where I would start him out at.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

I have a 16 year old great nephew and for a for maybe four years he already was great fel operator. I have a some to be 15 year old grandson and pray he will work with me this summer some to get the same experience you all are talking about. He is a great person but no real experience, when he was tiny tote he road on my left leg many an hour when I was running cultivators but mostly just steering the tractor in low great at idle. I pray have the opportunity to not only teach him how to operate tractor and excavator safety and to enjoy but my 8 and my 4 year old. One thing I learned from my Dad (he passed when I was 16) was "you can do it". You will be blessed.

I feel the need to tell you to be 100% sure you are protect just in case he were to get injured. Employee might not be covered by your liability policy. May have to have workers comp and that might be costly. The liability policy might have option to cover employee, you really have to ask your company.

Take pictures: give him book of them and keep for yourself. Who knows, one day you may be helping him on his farm.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

farmerbrown said:


> I have three boys myself and have taught one or two before I had mine . My oldest son is 15 he can run everything I own . My second son is 14 he scares me when he runs the zero turn lawn mower that is his limit. Youngest son is twelve he does a much better job and may start him on tedders this summer. My thing is do the lawnmower test and go from there.


Ditto, all depends on the kid. I was running tractors up and down the road with equipment at a lot younger age than the little brother was allowed to even drive a tractor around the farm.

Zero turn would be a good start, another would be a skid steer if you have rocks to pick, especially tell em to avoid the sharp turns that leaves ruts and see how quick that sinks in.

Tedding would be my next choice as well, make a few rounds to get the tedder, PTO, and ground speed set for the field and then see how he does.


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

Sounds like a win/win situation. Good to hear of you wanting to help the young man. You've identified him as both responsible and wanting to work -- both absolutely necessities.

Agree with all of the other posts, and ain't it great that all have basically the same thoughts!

Hope you will be blessed for your efforts. Keep us informed and hopefully he will become a Hay Talker too.

Shelia

(I'm keeping a lookout for a motivated young person in our area that would like a farming opportunity)


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

My dad had a saying that went along the lines of - "*It might not take long to learn how to 'operate' or drive a tractor/piece of equipment, but there is a world of difference between knowing how to operate/drive and having the ability to be a 'good' tractor operator".*

Have to agree on starting easy, practice with anything with a clutch. Didn't have a tedder in my youth, so raking/hauling hay out to the cows was a practice arena. With a bar rake, you have a speed limiter behind you, it seems. With three sons myself, raking is where they all started (two of them, still kid their brother about hitting my truck with the rake, during the 'learning' period).

Not to throw a wet blanket on your idea, but my concern, is Michigan laws. Double check with your insurance agent on your liability coverage with someone who is not your relative, under age 18, operating a piece of power equipment, without you being in 'direct' supervision.

Our laws are not what they use to be. I look at what you are trying to do as noble (and I would try to do the same), others look at it as abuse of child labor. :angry:

Larry


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

90% of the people I hired over the years to work on the farm, all of them being either very young or very old , , we're able to learn how to properly operate equipment and yet 10% will just not be good equipment operators. I am pretty picky I want things done right


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> Another thought:
> 
> Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, had this to say about standards in his annual report to the stock holders:
> 
> ...


That is very true. My first real job was at a factory. The boss wasn't a people person, good money manager but not a people manager. He wouldn't talk to hardly anyone unless absolutely necessary. He'd just leave notes for you to find if he wanted you to know something. The maintance guys wouldn't fix anything and it really lowers moral when the equipment you need to do your job doesn't work. Needless to say there was just a bad attitude among the employees and it rubbed off on just about everyone who started working there. Even I picked up some of the bad attitude in my 4 1/2 years working there.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

IH 1586 said:


> I would say a rake would be better but that depends on what it is. In these parts we started our tractor driving skills with a rollabar. Now everything is so wide and complicated it's hard to find a good place to start with a youngster.
> 
> I would start him around the yard just moving stuff around with tractors to see how he does with the basics. Without knowing your type of operation and equipment it is hard to know where I would start him out at.


If I had a rollabar rake it would be a great starter but I have a rotary rake, so the tedder is the easiest and most inexpensive piece of equipment I have. I also figured it would be the least critical if he didn't a stellar job.

But if I can even do this (because Larry brought up some good points) it's exactly like what you've said...practice driving the tractor around, maybe backing up to the implements, hooking them up, pulling them around, backing them in, etc. Heck even when I got my rotary rake I drove around the pasture practicing with it before I hit the field.

Lots of great discussion. Sounds like everybody would give him a chance.

My best friend has twin boys, 14 years old, one of them is obsessed with tractors and farming (wears an Oliver hat and belt buckle), and when they come over to my house he's always bugging me about what 'work' is there to do, so I send him out to mow the yard (because he's obsessed with John Deere riding mowers) or clean up the fence lines. I'm going to start him on the equipment this year too even though he's operated equipment before. They've been riding on my wagons with their dad since they were 11, and were driving my pickup with the wagon through the field retrieving bales when they were 13. Even then, the both of them as 13 year olds were the only people I had on my wagon last year. They're good workers but then their dad is one of the hardest workers I know. The 4 of us all live for doing hay so I'm looking forward to getting them on the tractor too, just can't wait until they're driving age.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Keep him interested and don't let him get bored, if you have him clean stalls or paint fence.then in a couple of hours have him mow lawn or ted hay, otherwise if you just clean stalls all day he may get sick of it. You will have to get a feel for what he likes to do. Patience he will have to learn some jobs on the farm take a certain amount of time. And you have to give him time to learn. Some people just have natural abilities when it comes to some of that stuff and others just never seem to quite get it.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Palmettokat said:


> I have a 16 year old great nephew and for a for maybe four years he already was great fel operator. I have a some to be 15 year old grandson and pray he will work with me this summer some to get the same experience you all are talking about. He is a great person but no real experience, when he was tiny tote he road on my left leg many an hour when I was running cultivators but mostly just steering the tractor in low great at idle. I pray have the opportunity to not only teach him how to operate tractor and excavator safety and to enjoy but my 8 and my 4 year old. One thing I learned from my Dad (he passed when I was 16) was "you can do it". You will be blessed.
> 
> I feel the need to tell you to be 100% sure you are protect just in case he were to get injured. Employee might not be covered by your liability policy. May have to have workers comp and that might be costly. The liability policy might have option to cover employee, you really have to ask your company.
> 
> Take pictures: give him book of them and keep for yourself. Who knows, one day you may be helping him on his farm.


You got me thinking about this so I just had to look into it. Michigan workers laws for agricultural employers state workers comp is needed if more than 3 employees working at least 35 hrs/week for at least 16 weeks. Definitely not me, fortunately. I'll be checking with insurance next week.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Hayjosh said:


> You got me thinking about this so I just had to look into it. Michigan workers laws for agricultural employers state workers comp is needed if more than 3 employees working at least 35 hrs/week for at least 16 weeks. Definitely not me, fortunately. I'll be checking with insurance next week.


 let us know how the insurance works out


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Hayjosh, this is commendable. My father was an over the road truck driver when I was a kid living in rural Minnesota. A young hog & grain farmer took me under his wing and had me helping with the hogs, and operating equipment. Actually it all started with picking rocks and walking beans. He and his dad farmed 3000 acres of corn and soybeans, so it wasn't long before I was operating lots of equipment, as well as performing repairs and maintenance. The life skills and work ethic he en-grained in me were a by product of him having plenty of work to be done. Was I naturally a hard worker? Nope, he instilled that in me - but I'm sure if you asked him he'd say it took a little time. He is the reason I am who I am today. I'm certain that you can be an extremely positive influence in this young mans life!


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I agree with the others as to giving him a chance. I was driving a tractor at @2 years old; by 10, I was disking and whatnot.

I have two daughters and they are polar opposites. One wanted to mow the lawn and couldn't anticipate a turn or which way to turn the steering wheel...seriously, she was like the videos of someone trying to park a car that winds up sideways... my other daughter was OPERATING by backhoe at 10 years old: she helped dig my basement while I was keeping her diggings moved with the dozer. I was always nearby, but she didn't need much help. I still have a video around here somewhere of her operating the backhoe; she had to sit "Indian style" to be able to see down in the hole.

She was OPERATING the baler square baler/tractor when she was 14. She even knows what to do when something goes wrong...kill PTO quick, stop tractor and call me on the phone...I don't expect her to fix a knotter or know what to do if something goes awry, but she is good enough to WATCH and listen for something that isn't right.

But, alas...she decided (at 16) to go get a "real" job and has had full-time employment ever since; at 19, she has two jobs and her own house (renting) about 40 miles from any "help". She brightened my day yesterday though; she texted and wanted to know when baling season was apt to start because she wanted to come help on her days off.

Helping other people's younguns help themselves by teaching work ethic and how to think about stuff won't probably be a long-term investment in your farm as they will do well in life and leave a small farm in search of more money and more opportunities. It IS an investment in society though...the more teens you work through your farm, the better your community will be.

Mark


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## Eastfreo (Aug 15, 2017)

If you can legally do it I say give him a chance. My brother and I started with wheel rakes at 12 using old Fordson Dextas. Year after we started cutting with reciprocating mowers. Dad obviously felt that they weren't worth much around 1984 (nor now but still nice to drive) and we couldn't do too much damage.

To share something my 14 year old nephew has just done his second unpaid holiday stint at a local ag machinery business and really enjoyed it. He has been done his share of menial tasks but they have also taught him some skills and given him a really great reference. He liked it so much he gave up a second week of school holidays to go back.

What has been really great is the boost it has given my nephew in self confidence. He hopes to get an apprenticeship with them (or another business) after he completes secondary school but more importantly it has helped him realise he isn't defined by his drug addict father (sadly my brother - long story starting with a motor bike accident then oxycodin and now my parents have custody).

Personally I am very grateful to this business owner because we can see exactly what it means to a kid to be seen to be worth giving a chance. One day we will need to do similar ourselves.

Maybe there are some basic jobs he could start doing, blowing out balers, greasing up, jumping in while someone is having lunch etc. whatever it is he will learn some skills and also build his own confidence.

FYI. Last hay season my nephew did a great job raking as well as mowing for us. He can handle machinery now better and more carefully than many of the people we have had work for us over the years. As some one said, you can pretty quickly see who is careful with machinery and who isn't.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I checked with my insurance tonight and my liability would cover up to 5 part time workers since I'm exempted from worker's comp.

So looks like I need to get him out here training. He won't be working many hours at all, I'm just super small time, though I do pick up acreage every year. And for that latter reason is why I want to start somebody now. It's the help I think I'll really need NEXT year, not necessarily this year, but this year would be a good year to get somebody broken in. Now to hope he sticks around next year, but that's just part of doing business. Like mentioned, any experience he has in my fields is still experience he'll have. We have talked about having him work 4 hrs a week here (maybe on a Saturday) doing things like mow the yard, or pick the horse lot, or maybe brush hog (but I can't give all the fun jobs away), as those are the things that really distract me from getting the bigger projects completed. It would also give him some regular training time on the tractor.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hayjosh said:


> I checked with my insurance tonight and my liability would cover up to 5 part time workers since I'm exempted from worker's comp.


I'm thinking 'always better to be safe, than sorry'. Looks like great news.

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Yesterday we had an easy square field and plenty of time to ted. So he came out, I gave him a quick lesson on the tractor and away at tedding he went. I'm really impressed, he's a fast learner and attentive. He still needs to get a little better at the clutch and stay off it. But I think I can get him to the point where he can work a field for me if I can't make it. I might put him on the baler today. This kid is great because he's dependable, strong, hard working, and eager. I'd easily put him up against anybody else's hay crew around here. He's pulled one of my bad wagons down the road too fully loaded and no issues there.

He has a lot of common sense which = safety.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayjosh said:


> Yesterday we had an easy square field and plenty of time to ted. So he came out, I gave him a quick lesson on the tractor and away at tedding he went. I'm really impressed, he's a fast learner and attentive. He still needs to get a little better at the clutch and stay off it. But I think I can get him to the point where he can work a field for me if I can't make it. I might put him on the baler today. This kid is great because he's dependable, strong, hard working, and eager. I'd easily put him up against anybody else's hay crew around here. He's pulled one of my bad wagons down the road too fully loaded and no issues there.
> 
> He has a lot of common sense which = safety.


That all sounds good, but the final exam will be how he faces the unknown/unfamiliar when he is on his own......his life may depend upon it. It is always better to bring them(trainee's) along at a very deliberate pace.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

For sure it will take me awhile before I feel comfortable enough to have him go out on his own. He needs to learn the equipment like the back of his hand first. Then he needs to be comfortable enough with the operation that he can go down the road. Roading for me was always the next challenge when I was just starting out during college. You feel very open and vulnerable out there on the road with traffic, not within the safe confines of a field.

When I was learning, it was just a matter of putting the hours in the seat and you eventually build up the operation awareness required (hopefully) after experience and some hard knocks.

Problem is my tractor doesn't have a buddy seat, and if I do have to ride along with him it means I'm standing on the step and holding on to the canopy and fender....also very dangerous in itself. I did that yesterday but not for very long.


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

Id say help this young man earn some money and learn how to operate machinery safely, thats a lifeskill that will could come in handy in lots of ways. But if you really want to help this kid steer him away from farming. Teach him work ethic he can use in any field, but if he isnt set to inherit then he is never going to be more than a field hand farming unless he gets another job to support a family that is good enough to allow him to support his interest in farming on the side.

I hate to be a downer, but thats the way it is. If you want to do this kid a favor steer him towards a career that will allow him to own something someday. He wont get there as a hired hand.


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## northern Ohio baler (Sep 28, 2014)

He's only 11 but this boy loves being out here. If kids are interested in farm life just keep on encouraging them to do things. We all know it's a different world that we live in nowadays and it's a dying breed of kids that want to work but let's go back to old school and let kids work on farm's again. They will learn life lessons just like all of us have. Skills that you will have for the rest of your life. Just My 2 cents.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Today we baled five acres square bale, of Coastal. I pay for the baling with hay and they load the old fashion way but I am doing my best to help move them to hay accumulator and grapple. I admit I am slow with mine and have a 16 year old great nephew who helps and is great with tractor. Often he walks the rows of bales to help be sure all is fine for the accumulator so he has had a good bit of seeing the issues from right at the action. Today I gave him a quick over view of the tractor controls and pointed how to line up from the tractor seat and I walked the row of bales watching him. He did great and I was amazed at how much easier it is to see the process standing on the ground in front of of the tractor (this is accumulator on fel, Maxilator brand) compared the drivers seat. Spend some time late in the day working with him on subsoiling. Had my four year old grandson with me while subsoiling this afternoon. Not sure which one of us love it the best. Wish my 15 year old grandson had interest in such. His dad tells me how much he likes it when I show him how to do something but he finds all kind of reasons he can not help...disappointments me. Hard to develop a love for the land without touching it and watching it grow.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

KYhaymaker said:


> Id say help this young man earn some money and learn how to operate machinery safely, thats a lifeskill that will could come in handy in lots of ways. But if you really want to help this kid steer him away from farming. Teach him work ethic he can use in any field, but if he isnt set to inherit then he is never going to be more than a field hand farming unless he gets another job to support a family that is good enough to allow him to support his interest in farming on the side.
> I hate to be a downer, but thats the way it is. If you want to do this kid a favor steer him towards a career that will allow him to own something someday. He wont get there as a hired hand.


Hey times are tough we know, but never say never. Somebody is going to farm and the average age of the US Farmer is about 60 and increasing every day. If he develops a passion, nurture it, who knows he will not be the first or the last to walk into an opportunity to be a first generation farmer.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Today my four year old grandson road with me and sat on my left leg and "drived" the tractor for me while we subsoiled the worst hardpan I have ever hit. He told me, "Granddaddy I would like to farm when I get older, could I ?" Made me feel good but what he said next made me think he was rather smart.

"Farmers do hard work and I like hard work." I think he is a very wise young man. We have taken steps in our will to do what we can to keep the family farm which is too small for traditional crops to be self sufficient but it can be a base.


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## woodland (May 23, 2016)

haybaler101 said:


> Hey times are tough we know, but never say never. Somebody is going to farm and the average age of the US Farmer is about 60 and increasing every day. If he develops a passion, nurture it, who knows he will not be the first or the last to walk into an opportunity to be a first generation farmer.





Palmettokat said:


> Today my four year old grandson road with me and sat on my left leg and "drived" the tractor for me while we subsoiled the worst hardpan I have ever hit. He told me, "Granddaddy I would like to farm when I get older, could I ?" Made me feel good but what he said next made me think he was rather smart.
> "Farmers do hard work and I like hard work." I think he is a very wise young man. We have taken steps in our will to do what we can to keep the family farm which is too small for traditional crops to be self sufficient but it can be a base.


Going forward I think there's opportunities that may not be common or thought of now. The guy who puts bees on our land has only a acreage where he extracts, stores, bottles, and sells it as well. His margins are way better than mine and he's probably doing over $500k a year which is pretty good for starting about 8 years ago. Or else you get into growing something like vegetables or a tourist stop like a corn maze which would work on a limited acreage. You're only limited by your imagination.


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