# Kuhn mower conditioner nightmare



## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

Kuhn conditioner (steel rollers) sold by JD dealer can't handle heavy johnson grass. Any of you guys attempted to condition heavy johnson grass or similar crop (video attached). The dealer and rep was no help, just blowing me off after the sale? Bought this machine new, used it for three days and sent back to dealer after being informed by Kuhn rep. thru dealer that there is no mower conditioner sold that can handle the crop shown in the attached video. Travel speed was 1.3mph 11000 rpm with crimper tension and rollers wide open. Traveling any faster would shear the roller shear bolt, replacing about 16 shear bolts. Finally, after feeling that I was getting no service or help from dealer and rep. had enough and told them to take it back. How are you guys handling this issue with heavy grasses.

Can't upload my video, apparently not permitted to upload this kind if video.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

What model did you have? I have a 283rtg rubber crimping rolls and I haven't done much marsh / canary grass with it but it seemed like it wanted to pull thru the rolls before you could cut it off. I did do some late rank first crop orchard alfalfa mix and it pulled hard but did work I kept my old new holland sickle machine and use that in the marsh grass.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I’ve cut cereal rye that’s gotten away from me that was about 50” tall, albeit with a sickle machine. I’ve found opening the crimper rollers about 1/3 of the way seems to work better than wide open or as closed as I run in alfalfa.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

So what was the problem you had with the machine?


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

The model is FC 3560 TCS

The problem was that it would not feed thru and was shearing the roller shear bolt going any faster than 1.5 mph. Dealer and Kuhn rep seemed to just say that the grass was to tall and thick for it. Anyone know how to upload mpeg streamclip. The video shows what grasses coming thru the rollers was coming out sometimes in clumps.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

pwheeler said:


> The model is FC 3560 TCS
> 
> The problem was that it would not feed thru and was shearing the roller shear bolt going any faster than 1.5 mph. Dealer and Kuhn rep seemed to just say that the grass was to tall and thick for it. Anyone know how to upload mpeg streamclip. The video shows what grasses coming thru the rollers was coming out sometimes in clumps.


Upload video to youtube then post the video.

Regards, Mike


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Sounds stupid but I think your traveling too slow.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> Sounds stupid but I think your traveling too slow.


Thinking that it's building up on the bar rather than pulling through?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> Thinking that it's building up on the bar rather than pulling through?


Maybe not on the bar but somewhere. 1.5 mph is silly slow.


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

Not sure I did this correctly. Below is youtube link.


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Did you try upping your speed? I think you are running way too slow. Are you running 540 PTO RPM?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

It works, tighten crimper rollers up a bit and kick it up a gear.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Seems like rollers grabbing uncut material, going faster should help. Our old haybine would have this issue once in a while.


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

The PTO rpm is 1000. Speeding up ground speed would only shear roller shear bolt. Kuhn uses shear bolt instead of belt system. You can't see it in the video, but it seemed to be pushing the crop away from the bar rather than sending it thru the rollers.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I really think you need to try going just a bit faster. Looks like it’s sending wads thru instead of an even flow thru the crimper, is the rollers are basically open shut open shut open shut instead of an even open, causing it to shear the bolts


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Hmm. Roller shear bolt gives up with anything above 1.5 mph... Are you using Kuhn shear bolts or hardware store standard bolts?


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

Used all six Kuhn provided shear bolts and bought more from dealer with same or higher shear strength of 10.9. Does the johnson grass shown in the video look to rank to pass thru a machine like this or any other. I know it is pretty thick, but not that tall.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

pwheeler said:


> Not sure I did this correctly. Below is youtube link.


Looks to me like the material is getting pushed along by the lower roller until there is enough of a pile there that the rollers grab it. Shouldn't do that. The other thing that strikes me is how weakly the rollers are throwing the material out the back.

Take a look at this. 




Your dealer sounds like a turd.


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

Agree, I watched all Kuhn youtube videos (several) before the machine was delivered.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Starting at 6:42 in the video I linked they talk about lifters to improve crop flow into the conditioner. Do you have them?


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

As indicated in my original post the machine was taken back to the dealer and being told that no machine could handle that type of crop, even with crop lifters and raised skid shoes. At this point,I was fed up with their bulls--t and told them they could have the machine back because that kind of crop was one of the major reasons I purchased it. Unfortunately, they took $1600 for the three days I used it. Lessoned learned on my part, not sure if the dealer realized mistake he made.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Do you really need the crimper? I think a disc mower would have been able to handle that just fine, crimper didn’t look like it was doing anything anyway.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

What BS, its a heavy crop but not bad. I know mine and my friends old NH 411 can both mow reed canary that is a good couple of feet taller and just as thick without issue.



pwheeler said:


> As indicated in my original post the machine was taken back to the dealer and being told that no machine could handle that type of crop, even with crop lifters and raised skid shoes. At this point,I was fed up with their bulls--t and told them they could have the machine back because that kind of crop was one of the major reasons I purchased it. Unfortunately, they took $1600 for the three days I used it. Lessoned learned on my part, not sure if the dealer realized mistake he made.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

stack em up said:


> Do you really need the crimper? I think a disc mower would have been able to handle that just fine, crimper didn't look like it was doing anything anyway.


I would certainly want a good conditioner in for that stuff . . . it shouldn't matter anyway, any decent mower/conditioner should have gotten along just fine.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> I would certainly want a good conditioner in for that stuff . . . it shouldn't matter anyway, any decent mower/conditioner should have gotten along just fine.


I fully agree it should have handled it fine, cut lots heavier stuff with my haybine. If he isn't going for dry hay maybe he didn't need a crimper is what I was going for.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Why did you spread the rolls apart. It seems that would only compound the poor feeding issue since the rolls could not pinch the material between them to pull the hay through. Lifters would help if the machine did not have them.

I would try and find a neighbor with a different brand machine and see how he does in that field. It is hard to believe the Kuhn could not work in those conditions.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

A healthy discbine, properly set up should cut that. I've cut heavier material and didn't have to slow down very much or adjust anything. Dealer is incorrect.
When material exits my discbine, it looks like a green wave of water. Yours looks like it's "clumping and dumping"
Did you verify the blades were installed correctly?

RPM doesn't seem right, either. Looks like its too slow.


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## R6Farms (Jun 24, 2019)

Something not set up properly on that machine, we have a rubber roller and impeller mower conditioner that would eat that hay at 7 mph easily.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

Conditions were not excessive. Also, not typical of a Kuhn to do that. Obviously something not correct on the machine. Did someone check the roll timing?

Working correctly you would like the machine. Did the dealer give up on making it right.? Hate you have to take a $1,600 hit on the machine.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

What was the $1600 for? Seems high for rent.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

It seems to be running way too slow. It seems to me either the tractor is not really running at 1000 pto speed or the front gear box on mower is wrong.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Glad you got the machine taken back to the dealership pwheeler. $1600 is tough rent for 3 days but it beats the alternative. I certainly would give that dealership the proper endorsement when the time comes along....and it will.

Regards, Mike


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## pwheeler (Nov 30, 2018)

The dealer at first said the gear box on the machine may be set to 540 instead of 1000, then said timing issue, then said sorry (per Kuhn) no machine will condition that kind of crop. I say BS! I have several pieces of Kuhn equipment and am pleased with the performance of those, but this will definitely send me to a different dealer and rethink the product brand I purchase in the future.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

That's a bad deal with the dealer. I can't imagine Kuhn not standing behind the machine - even apart from the dealer.

I don't know about Johnson grass, but I mowed some hay with my Krone 2801cv (impeller machine) in a field that yielded 150 square bales per acre at 7 mph. I could have gone faster, but the ride gets bumpy! No issues at all. I should think the Kuhn could do the same. I see on YouTube New Holland discbines mowing really tall and thick Sudan at a pretty good clip too.

I don't know if impellers are a good conditioner for Johnson grass, but I would highly recommend Krone. IMHO documentation and factory support are excellent - in my experience.

Good luck,
Bill


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

pwheeler said:


> As indicated in my original post the machine was taken back to the dealer and being told that no machine could handle that type of crop, even with crop lifters and raised skid shoes. At this point,I was fed up with their bulls--t and told them they could have the machine back because that kind of crop was one of the major reasons I purchased it. Unfortunately, they took $1600 for the three days I used it. Lessoned learned on my part, not sure if the dealer realized mistake he made.


That is not super tall Johnson grass. It does not look to have headed out yet. Great looking hay. A flail conditioner machine would do much better in grass hay like yours.


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## Dyates (Oct 15, 2019)

If you figure this out, please let me know. I bought a fc283rtg this year with bad rollers. I replaced them with circle c rollers and have the same problem, maybe worse. Circle c rollers run full contact and just won't grab that stemmy johnson grass. Thin stuff like 4th cutting alfalfa is also a challenge, but I learned to drop the rpms, stick it in road gear and hang on. Can't do the same with the j-grass.


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