# NH 575 baler questions



## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I just picked up a 575 and was wondering if it should have grease or some kind of lube on the bevel gears and bull gears in front of the knotters? And if they should be tighter mesh or not? The baler runs decent just a tick noisy there.
Im Sure I will habe a ton more soon. Thanks


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think lube(grease)on open gears is asking for dirt collection which can accelerate wear.


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## LukeS (Feb 24, 2015)

I would agree with Tx Jim


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

wd 40 is what I was just told by the mechanic who work on our 5070 not a lot just a quick shot 2 or 3 times a season. I am sure it will collect some extra dirt


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Ok, some serious new baler issues at first, got most of them sorted out like banana bales and making them too heavy! Now this thing is noisy when making a bale just before the knotter activates ? Im thinking the plunger is causing it? It has a bit of movement up and down but pretty nice side to side. My question is how tough is it to get out and replace rollers and re-shim?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I presume that a NH sq baler PH is similar JD to remove from bale case. After hay is removed from bale case block up hay tension channel at rear of bale case,then remove bolts(key 6) from brg block, install wedges to keep each hay dogs blocked out of bale case then roll PH out the rear of bale case. One might have to remove carriage bolts that attach needle yoke to bale case so PH will pass similar to a JD


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The plunger is hitting maybe 13 times during the forming of the bale. Why makes you think it would be noisy only right before tying?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You are probably hearing the needle safety latch at the front of the baler hitting the frame when the needles start their cycle. There is a plastic block or I should say there should be a plastic block to quiet the inpact noise. It is quite common for the block to be gone. Not being there does not cause a problem except for the noise. If you crawl under the baler at the safety latch location and look up at the back side of the latch location you will probably see an empty verticle slot. That slot holds the block.

While you are looking to quiet the noise from the baler, you may also want to check the plastic stops under the haydogs. Once the blocks have deterioted the haddogs start beating into the haydog mounts. I have a post in my pinned repair thread on haydogs so you can get an idea of what I am refering to.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Just seems that waybecause the thrower relieves the intial preasure i guess? When it sucks the bale away and tosses into wagon. 
It is noisy all the time just loudest rigjt before knot tying for some reason?
How hard can you bale with these things? Once we got the bananas straightened out and weight and length correct it was just eating hay like no tomorrow? My old one would have broken the shear bolt every 20 seconds ...


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

MIKE YOU DA MAN!!! I did notice that and it is gone! I will replace that asap! That is just about where the noise is most prevelant too THANK YOU ! 
Can I change the roller bearing that you can see in the bale chamber as it comes across with out removing the plunger?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The only bearing you can replace without pulling the plunger is the one on the crank arm where the plunger connecting rod attaches to the gearbox arm.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

That's what I thought..dang it!
Upon a further more anal inspection I believe I have found a pile of the noise....the plunger is banging up and down ans side to side! The 2 rollers you can see visibly in the chamber are both loose! The side thrust one slides back and forth dang near a 1/4 " and the one just in front of it is leaning like a circle track cars front tire...


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

How snug should the plunger be?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> How snug should the plunger be?


To pull put or for operation?


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

For operation.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

There should be tolerances in the manual for how you would want to set it if you were doing a rebuild, but I don’t know what the theoretical tolerances are before that rebuild is called for.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

No manual..


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> No manual..


This goes without saying, but you should remedy that.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

If I were independently wealthy I would immediately,BUT since Im now dang near broke, I really cant spend that extra $140 plus they want for one right now. 
Knife clearance is my biggest concern right now. Any help on this would be great.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Might try this one for less than $20 to start with.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Heavy-Equipment-Manuals-Books-for-Baler-and-New-Holland/177645/bn_12171106

Larry


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

r82230 said:


> Might try this one for less than $20 to start with.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/b/Heavy-Equipment-Manuals-Books-for-Baler-and-New-Holland/177645/bn_12171106
> 
> Larry


Nothing there currently. Last time I bought an official NH reprint it was less than $30 from dealer. Anywho, I'll check my book when I'm back at the shop if nobody has been able to help by then.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Here is the page on the knife clearances. HOWEVER, keep in mind that if you have play elsewhere that the knife clearance may “change” after you’ve checked it. You don’t want any crashes.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks that will get me a pile closer than i am presently! This thing is rattling around like a marble in a soup can!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> Thanks that will get me a pile closer than i am presently! This thing is rattling around like a marble in a soup can!


If you have that kind of rattle, are you going to recheck the entire plunger? Just doing the knife with it too loose could result in serious disappointment.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Skyrydr2, just for you.I added a post to my repair thread. It was rushed but I hope you can make sense of it.

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=75098


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks Mike, and Hitech, I have all new bearings for the plunger and plan to tighten it up nice nice! I just replaced the flywheel bushing as it was sloppy as heck, almost every yoke on it was loose and caps spinning in them, slipper clutch was glazed on all the frictions and plates...the dealer that sold this is paying for their lack of attention!! Everything I have replaced so far they are supplying for me and its all genuine NewHolland parts $$..


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Mike, I just read through your plunger tips and words can't describe how pleased and greatful I am ! Thank you very very much! That will help me tremendously to get it right the first time!


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

It works magnificent! 355 on the counter in an hours time aint too bad for a rookie and the baler is quite as can be. Im happy as a lark ! Well back too it have about 450 more to go tonight.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Ok i have managed to pump about 2000 bales through my 575 so far and every single time I get hold of a larger than normal windrow I get long bales..tooo long! WHAT IS GOING ON?
I rebuilt the metering arm and gear so far next would be to either rebuild the metering wheel assembly or replace it? 
This baler inhales the hay! And seems to love every ounce of it except it doesn't poop them out consistent. 
Is this normal? My 310 never did this and that could eat it pretty well but nothing like this 575. A pinch of guidance on what might be ailing the bale length..


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Have to slow down in those spots to maintain consistent crop flow.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

If thats the case then 400 bales an hour is a dream! At 1 mph you could never cover enough acreage,the baler is always reaching for more hay and eats it faster than I'm moving! 
Thin spots yield short bales heavy you get lunkers..is this thing that sensitive to consistent windrows? 
Now that I think about it only makes sense because it has no way to "wait" for the needles and knotter each stroke feeds in material wether its just starting or getting ready to knott... tractor is not a powershift so changing speed is a real bitch... especially with 3 shift levers to choose from...
Other than this minor annoyance and the kicker falling apart because SOME HACKS PUT IT TOGETHER WRONG! It has been performing quite well.
Just need to rake better or get a new tractor...HMMMMM.....


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> If thats the case then 400 bales an hour is a dream! At 1 mph you could never cover enough acreage,the baler is always reaching for more hay and eats it faster than I'm moving!
> Thin spots yield short bales heavy you get lunkers..is this thing that sensitive to consistent windrows?
> Now that I think about it only makes sense because it has no way to "wait" for the needles and knotter each stroke feeds in material wether its just starting or getting ready to knott... tractor is not a powershift so changing speed is a real bitch... especially with 3 shift levers to choose from...
> Other than this minor annoyance and the kicker falling apart because SOME HACKS PUT IT TOGETHER WRONG! It has been performing quite well.
> Just need to rake better or get a new tractor...HMMMMM.....


I would consider 400 mostly a pipe dream as long as you're using a thrower, no matter the baler model. Unless you have someone following you around the field ready to switch wagons for you as soon as you're full, there's just a certain inefficiency that you're not going to overcome. If your hay is dry, raking monster rows and going that 1mph is your best bet. Outside of that, you can probably help your short bales either by turning off pto on ends or adding a weight to your metering arm or adding bale skiis, depending on how many ways they're actually getting created. Long bales, I recall SVFHAY has added a second metering adjustment he runs from the cab in heavy spots. You may also want to check for wear in your metering parts and if not the latest design, update to that. (My mid production 570 now has updated 575 metering) So, maybe it isn't just windrow consistency, but a lot of it will be.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks guys for the insight. I have tightened up a bunch of slop in the metering setup. I'm sure a bunch of it is from inconsisant rows because it runs really good when they are uniform.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Your bale length adjuster is probably still in the factory location jusdging by the decal set on your baler. Moving it rearward is supposed to help with bale length adjustment. Adding a weight (just clamping something on your metering arm) is supposed to help too. Neither of these are necessarily going to suddenly change the nature of the beast but they do help in some circumstances and outside of a few minutes of your time, they are free upgrades and may eliminate a few of your oddball bales. Combine them with shifting up and down for at least the most egregious thick or thin spots, and it will get better.

Does your baler have fine tooth or coarse tooth metering wheel? (Fine like fingernail grooves, coarse like 1/8" deep) I much prefer the coarse one but if you just rebuilt it there's no sense in changing immediately.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

skyrydr2 said:


> . I'm sure a bunch of it is from inconsisant rows because it runs really good when they are uniform.


Remember the amount of hay per charge (plunger stroke), is a variable. If you have a charge (per plunger stroke) of 3" of hay, then the baler can trip (trip arm) anywhere in that 0-3" variable and the baler will add one more charge to the bale. So easily you could have anywhere from almost 0" added to bale (just barely trips and no hay in next stroke) and 6" longer. Where trip arm trips on begin of 3" charge, plus the next 3".

It gets worse, with the greater amount of hay (or large wad of hay). E.g. 6" per charge, could have almost a 12" variance in bale length. :angry: Hence the importance of either consistent windrows or consistent feeding of baler. Seem Mike10 even mentioned once about turning off baler when running empty (ends of windrows), so baler doesn't trip/tie with no product being fed.

Larry


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

r82230 said:


> Remember the amount of hay per charge (plunger stroke), is a variable. If you have a charge (per plunger stroke) of 3" of hay, then the baler can trip (trip arm) anywhere in that 0-3" variable and the baler will add one more charge to the bale. So easily you could have anywhere from almost 0" added to bale (just barely trips and no hay in next stroke) and 6" longer. Where trip arm trips on begin of 3" charge, plus the next 3".
> 
> It gets worse, with the greater amount of hay (or large wad of hay). E.g. 6" per charge, could have almost a 12" variance in bale length. :angry: Hence the importance of either consistent windrows or consistent feeding of baler. Seem Mike10 even mentioned once about turning off baler when running empty (ends of windrows), so baler doesn't trip/tie with no product being fed.
> 
> Larry


I agree with the sentiment and am just clearing the cobwebs out of my own mind here...

The charge of hay that trips the tie will have no effect on the NEXT bale...will it? That charge that trips the knot sequence, gets tied into the end of that bale. The next bale starts off empty with the trip arm all the down. Therefore, the bale length should only be able to vary by the amount of the last charge into the bale, not double that...right?

I did/do have a 14t with a different trip mechanism that did not climb like "normal" ones, but was an eccentric that tripped with a full revolution of the metering wheel (the spikey thing)... now, THAT one was a real doozy to deal with. If you wound up with a long bale, the next bale would be short by that amount as it did not "reset"...it just tripped every revolution. If a big charge of hay went in, it sent the spikey metering wheel that amount of revolution past tie trip and THAT is where it started the next bale. Theoretically, you could bale a million bales and the difference between the total length of the million bales would only vary by ONE charge of hay. It had its pros and cons.

Mark


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

glasswrongsize said:


> The charge of hay that trips the tie will have no effect on the NEXT bale...will it? That charge that trips the knot sequence, gets tied into the end of that bale. The next bale starts off empty with the trip arm all the down. Therefore, the bale length should only be able to vary by the amount of the last charge into the bale, not double that...right?
> 
> Mark


Now you got me wondering again........................... have to watch in slow motion I guess (maybe even real slow with my peanut brain). :huh: I do believe the springing back of hay (straw from a rotary combine in particular) could also have an effect. 

Will not be the first time I am wrong, but the only way I know how not to make mistakes is to do nothing. 

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> ..
> 
> The charge of hay that trips the tie will have no effect on the NEXT bale...will it? That charge that trips the knot sequence, gets tied into the end of that bale. The next bale starts off empty with the trip arm all the down. Therefore, the bale length should only be able to vary by the amount of the last charge into the bale, not double that...right?
> 
> Mark


DITTO. If windrows are thick & baler is pushed to near maximum productivity all flakes(blocks) will be thicker than when balling at lower productivity. IMHO if windrows & mph travel are consistent then flakes should be consistently thicker than smaller windrows but bales will probably vary in length.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Bale length should only vary by one flake but that can mean plus or minus one flake so total variance should be two flakes, and then as mentioned if larger than expected flakes, even more variance in thick spots. You will get way more plus bales than you will minus bales but total variance is total variance.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I can't seem to get my brain to grasp it. My simple mind looks at it as the last bale is tied and the next bale is started with the metering wheel/arm in the new bale/reset position. It starts the bale with the first stroke; as long as the first stroke is less then the total length of the bale (IE a 1-stroke bale), it will take at least 2 strokes to make a bale. It is the VERY LAST stroke that makes any difference on the length of the bale.

If the metering wheel is on the brink of tripping, such as a 1/2" charge of hay would trip it and you put in a 6" charge of hay, the bale will be over length by 5 ½ inches. If it needed 4" to trip it and you added 6", it would be over length by 2".

The way my mind has it (and I may be having a brain-fart here) is that every charge of hay prior to the tripping of the knotter is a moot point on the length of the bale. It is ONLY the last charge of hay that determines how much over-length the bale is.

Barring some mechanical slippage/bouncing, etc... the baler will not trip before it's minimum length is reached according the the metering wheel and one charge of hay (and only one charge of hay) activates the knotter thereby limiting the variance to that of the size of the last charge of hay.

I can't seem to grasp how the variance can be double the length of the last charge as there is only 1 stroke per bale that determines length.

Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees, but I can't seem to get my mind wrapped around a variance being 2x the charge of hay. I can't figure how it can be "plus or minus" as a "minus" will not trip the knotter as it trips on the minimum length of bale and not the number of strokes in it.

Confused in the People's Republic of Illinois, Mark


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Because machanical slippage and/or bouncing do exist. Or merely plunger action continually acting on the bale while turning even while no hay is being fed. It’s why I said those instances should be far fewer, but we can’t ignore their existence.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> Bale length should only vary by one flake but that can mean plus or minus one flake so total variance should be two flakes, and then as mentioned if larger than expected flakes, even more variance in thick spots. You will get way more plus bales than you will minus bales but total variance is total variance.


I think you should make a video of your idea of a 2 flake variance in bale length proving your idea as I'm not agreeing with it. Of course I'm not guilty of counting # of flakes in a small sq bale of hay very often.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Because machanical slippage and/or bouncing do exist. Or merely plunger action continually acting on the bale while turning even while no hay is being fed. It's why I said those instances should be far fewer, but we can't ignore their existence.


I will throw in with the idea that slippage and bouncing do occur, but I was not considering that into my variance issue, as that is a problem all of its own. If I were to figure in slippage, bouncing, etc...I would offer that bale length would not be limited to 2x the bale charge (or "plus or minus" one stroke); it would/could be far greater than that. I could let my baler bang away empty until it rattled the metering wheel enough to make it tie and the bale length would be 0.0" bale, or stuff it to the gills with a 10"charge of hay on the last stroke (which was just getting ready to trip) and the bale length (if set at 42") could be @52 inches. So, it COULD vary by 52" which is @5x the charge's variance not plus or minus one.

That's how I can't seem to quit seeing it anyway.

Mark


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

If every thing is working as it should it is not mechanically possible for there to be more than one additional slab added to the bale once the bale length trip arm trips.

Most of the time, the bale length trip arm will trip when the plunger is pushing the hay through the chamber. Whether or not the slab that is formed when the arm trips is the last slab of the bale depends on how soon the arm trips when that slab is being compressed. If the latch that drives the knotter is past the pawl when the arm trips, there will be one more slab added to the bale before the bale is tied. It is possible to reduce this tendency slightly by retarding the knotter timing to the maximum allowable amount, but this would have to be done with caution.

I would also comment that with a rack and pinion style trip arm and drive there will be negligible slippage in a properly maintained system.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Boy, even I am getting confused.

Here is a question. If you are making 36" bales, is the bale 36" when the knotter trips or is it 36" when the next slab is added and the bale is tied?

I ask this because most bales have a slab added after the knotter trips because the plunger is just starting to compress the last slab that trips the knotter after it passes the time for the needles to engage. Retarding the timing of the needles might make some difference, but does it change anything? You still adjust the metering arm for the length of bale you want.

If you are making 3" slabs and are making 42" bales you have 14 charges of hay so the knotter trips at 39". If the slabs are 5" the knotter trips when the bale is actually 40" and then the next slab will make the bale 45". If the slabs are 7" the knotter trips when the bale is 42" and the next slab will make the bale 49".

Running the baler without hay entering the chamber can cause the knotter to trip if the bale is close to the 39" trip point so if there is not an additional charge of hay you will end up with a bale less than 39".


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

The needles come up inside the slots of the plunger. The way I figure it if a bale was 3" from the trip point and the charge of hay in front of the plunger made a 3 inch flake the knotters would be tripped so the next plunger stroke it would tie. If the next plunger stroke had no hay the bail would be short. On the other hand if a bale was 1/4" from the trip point and the plunger shoved in 7 inches of hay the knotters would be tripped. If the next stroke was also 7 inches that would mean nearly 14" more hay before the needles came up.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Wethay said:


> The needles come up inside the slots of the plunger. The way I figure it if a bale was 3" from the trip point and the charge of hay in front of the plunger made a 3 inch flake the knotters would be tripped so the next plunger stroke it would tie. If the next plunger stroke had no hay the bail would be short. *On the other hand if a bale was 1/4" from the trip point and the plunger shoved in 7 inches of hay the knotters would be tripped*.* If the next stroke was also 7 inches that would mean nearly 14" more hay before the needles came up. *


In this case most likely the bale length arm would trip soon enough that the knotter would cycle on that stroke, not wait until the next stroke. This is where knotter/plunger timing can make a difference. It would be more likely that the length arm would trip halfway into a 7" slab, and another 7" slab added, resulting in a bale about 10" longer than the theoretical minimum.

Really the trip arm only sets a minimum bale length. The shortest of which would be as mike10 describes above, the rare instance when the arm trips even though there is no crop being fed into the chamber. The longest possible bale length would be if the arm trips an instant past the engagement point which can be made more likely to happen if knotter timing is advanced. So final bale length comes down to how big the individual slabs are and luck of trip arm timing.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

There are several earlier threads on 570/575 NH balers and their subsequent models that deal with inconsistent bale lengths.

One thread is at:

Inconsistent Bale size with New Holland BC5070
Started by tkaffenbarger, Jul 13 2014 08:52 PM

Another is at:

Trouble getting the right sized bales.
Started by joechambers, Aug 28 2015 04:28 AM

Contributors identified the cause of inconsistent bale lengths as "metering arm bounce".










When the bale ties the metering arm drops down onto the length adjuster (silver vertical rod in photo) and can bounce thereby reducing the size of the next bale. Clearly one cause of short bales, there can be others and they are addressed in those earlier threads.

There were 3 solutions proposed in those threads:

1) Move the metering arm adjuster (vertical silver rod in above photo) further back from the metering arm pivot point. The effect of any bounce is then reduced. Simple lever and fulcrum mathematics.

2) Attach an additional weight to the metering arm which increases the weight to be bounced up again and the weight is usually beyond the metering arm adjustment point so amplifies the damping effect on the bounce. Some merely zip tied an athletic training weight onto the arm.










Contributor's photo from an earlier thread. The adjuster and its attachment to the bale case can be clearly seen here and there is plenty of room to move it back toward the metering wheel.

3) Attach a light expansion spring (you may know it as a tension spring) to the metering arm pulling it down onto the frame thus eliminating any bounce.

If the machine has a fine metering wheel then I would only contemplate moving the adjuster back along the bale case. The load of extra weight or a spring may be too much for a fine metering wheel to cope.

Interestingly the JD 348 has a spring loaded metering arm, pulling it tight against the metering wheel and slightly down too, which could explain JD baler owners waxing lyrical about bale size consistency. However before getting too excited about green v red or yellow (depending on model), I have owned and operated NH570 and JD348 and both were equally inconsistent in bale length. Although both machines are rated at 93 strokes per minute, the NH 570 could swallow hay like there was no tomorrow and would produce up to 100 bales per hour more of equal consistency (size and shape) as the JD348.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Great post Coondle, the links.

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/22982-inconsistent-bale-size-with-new-holland-bc5070/

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/26952-trouble-getting-the-right-sized-bales/


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Gearclash said:


> If every thing is working as it should it is not mechanically possible for there to be more than one *additional slab* added to the bale once the bale length trip arm trips.


Thanks 'clash. That's the point I was missing!!! To better explain my break in train-of-thought: I was (incorrectly and I oughtta know better as I mostly bale small bales and work on my own equipment) considering that the last stroke of hay is the one that tripped the knotter. Not so. It is the 2nd-to-last stroke that trips the knotter as it is being shoved into the chamber; the plunger then goes back, picks up another charge and shoves it forward and the tying cycle begins. Finally, I can wrap my head around how one can figure that the variance is nearly two slabs of hay past the knotter tripping if the metering wheel only needed (for argument's sake) 1/4" of hay to trip the knotter and it was giving 7" slabs...it would go past the trip point by 6-3/4" and still get another 7" on the next stroke. I still gotta mull over how much more than the last stroke it can vary by, but I see that logic now.

Thanks for y'all's patience 'clash, hitech, and larry. To all of those that I muddied the water:my sincere apologies. I may not still have it right in my head, but I'm far less confident in my old thinking

Mark.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> Finally, I can wrap my head around how one can figure that the variance is nearly two slabs of hay past the knotter tripping if the metering wheel only needed (for argument's sake) 1/4" of hay to trip the knotter and it was giving 7" slabs...it would go past the trip point by 6-3/4" and still get another 7" on the next stroke. I still gotta mull over how much more than the last stroke it can vary by, but I see that logic now.


Theoretically this scenario is possible. I think most balers would tie the bale without needing the additional slab. Don't forget, with such thick slabs, the hay in the chamber begins moving sooner in the plunger stroke, which in turn makes it more likely that the trip arm will trip in time for the knotter to tie the bale on that slab yet. Clear as mud?

By the way, who makes 7" slabs?? Especially with a small square? That's 6 plunger strokes for a 42" bale! I figure i'm pushing hard enough if i'm up to a 4" slab on our 2x3 big square baler. 25 slabs on a 92" bale.


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> Great post Coondle, the links.
> 
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/22982-inconsistent-bale-size-with-new-holland-bc5070/
> 
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/26952-trouble-getting-the-right-sized-bales/


Thanks HiTech, clearly I am not high tech.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> Theoretically this scenario is possible. I think most balers would tie the bale without needing the additional slab. Don't forget, with such thick slabs, the hay in the chamber begins moving sooner in the plunger stroke, which in turn makes it more likely that the trip arm will trip in time for the knotter to tie the bale on that slab yet. Clear as mud?
> 
> By the way, who makes 7" slabs?? Especially with a small square? That's 6 plunger strokes for a 42" bale! I figure i'm pushing hard enough if i'm up to a 4" slab on our 2x3 big square baler. 25 slabs on a 92" bale.


The question was originally about long bales due to heavy spots and not slowing down so a 7" is conceivable, albeit undesirable.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

glasswrongsize said:


> Thanks 'clash. That's the point I was missing!!! To better explain my break in train-of-thought: I was (incorrectly and I oughtta know better as I mostly bale small bales and work on my own equipment) considering that the last stroke of hay is the one that tripped the knotter. Not so. It is the 2nd-to-last stroke that trips the knotter as it is being shoved into the chamber; the plunger then goes back, picks up another charge and shoves it forward and the tying cycle begins.
> 
> Mark.


The small sq balers I've been around tie on the PH stroke when trip dog is activated IE PH doesn't have enough time to cycle for another stroke for more hay after trip dog is engaged.

When one times the needles to PH the PH is moving rearward then one engages the trip dog so needles enter bale chamber. Baler is in time when needles are even with bale case channels that point up & face of PH is 1-1/2-2'' away from needles then PH continues rearward to end of stroke with needles entering slots in PH.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Alright WTF ! Why in hell would the string get caught on that bottom flipper arm thingy? Oh I sooo want to choke out the guy I got this baler from...."Oh we just went through it and it should be all set".. I have had nothing but headaches with this damned thing! Its almost completely rebuilt now! Only thing left is to rebuild the knotters and drive gear bushings all while trying to make bales..
Anyways, the left side will tie no issues with tying a knot I will say it has never missed a knot well if it has string lol, but after knot is tied it sometimes gets caught up on the bolt and flipper thing and breaks the string 3-4" away from knot. Why is it doing this? Only on that side too? I just removed the entire linkage and went through it all to tighten up all the pivoting points( welded up work holes and rods and re drilled and turned all worn bits back to new)
This assembly is now on its way back to the field to be installed. 
How snug should the knotter frame be when raising it after pin is removed? The ones on this unit are loose and can be moved side to side 0.020-.030th.? Is this ok ? 
I'm wondering if something is stuck to plunger face making it pack unevenly causing this "loop" to get hung up??


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I take it the “flipper arms” are the twine fingers?


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Yup that's what their called lol, yes the bale is tied and when it starts making the next bale is when this happens.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It sounds like the twine fingers are not adjusted properly. Remove the twine and for easier working, the hay, and turn the knotters through a complete cycle. Pull back on the rod going to the needle yoke so the knotters are completely set. Now eye down above the knotters looking at the tips of the twine fingers. The tips of the twine fingers should be even with the needle slot of the chamber. Line the tip of the twine finger up and the upper and lower slots. I advance the twine fingers about a 1/16" past this point.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Seems if I recall correctly both our square balers back in the day had the spring on the metering arm.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks Mike your advise is god sent! It now seems to be behaving fairly well. 
Is it ok for the main frame of each knotter to be sloppy side to side is my next question?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Stop using the baler until you take care of the end play. The 575 has two eccentricric collars on the knotter shaft. Loosen the set screws and rotate one of the collars. Tighten enough to remove the end play but loose enough so when the knotter frame is unpined and raised and then released the knotter frame will still rotate down on it's own weight.

When adjusting the end play take a 9/16" wrench and rotate the twine disc drive shaft with the spiral grooves to free up the knotter frame. With the tension from the twine holder spring the twine disc pinion will be partially rotated and you will not remove all the end play.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks again Mike I will get right after this. 
Also wondering how critical is the pin fit at the bottom? I know its slotted at mount but this rig is worn bad at that slot mount on both knotters. I plan to cut these pieces off at the welds and rebuild them when I can get it back to the shop for a day or 2.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

There is no need to remove the mounts, I just weld the worn areas in place with a wire welder and grind the excess away. I also install new pins and hairpins.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Stop using the baler until you take care of the end play. The 575 has two eccentricric collars on the knotter shaft. Loosen the set screws and rotate one of the collars. Tighten enough to remove the end play but loose enough so when the knotter frame is unpined and raised and then released the knotter frame will still rotate down on it's own weight.

Mike, does this also apply to a 570, or do I need to pull the stack apart, and add shims?
Thanks much, Dave
PS: Apologies for hijacking the thread!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

On the 570 and many others the end play is adjusted by shims on the right side of the knotter stack. On the right side of the knotter shaft you will see a 8mm bolt with a large washer under the bolt head. If you remove this bolt you will find thin shims and possibly 5/16 flat washers. To remove the endplay loosen the clamp bolt on the arm the 8mm bolt contacts. Remove a shim and reinstall the bolt. Tightening the 8mm bolt will pull the knotter shaft to the right removing some of the endplay.

The small pinion which drives the twine disc and is in contact with the large cam gear needs to be rotated away from the cam gear by placing a 9/16 wrench on the nut at ethe bottom of the pinion shaft. The pinions wear at an angle and with the twine holder spring applying pressure against the twine disc, the small pinion will not rotate on it's own for the flat surface of the pinion to be against the cam gear. If the pinions are not rotated so the flat surfaces are parallel you will not get an accurate shim job.

Remove or add shims until the knotter frames have all the endplay removed, but still will rotate down on their when released. Once test, tighten the arm clamp bolt.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Thanks much Mike! 

Dave


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Well I'm finally able to pump out good bales that are very consistent even with inconsistent windrows( crappy fields that were not taken care of) so far so good . Thanks to everyone for the input it really makes this a bit easier when encountering issues.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

skyrydr2 said:


> Well I'm finally able to pump out good bales that are very consistent even with inconsistent windrows( crappy fields that were not taken care of) so far so good . Thanks to everyone for the input it really makes this a bit easier when encountering issues.


Can you tell what helped/changed the most?


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Rebuilding all the worn twine finger parts helped as well as the metering arm and wheel,but I think the single most noticeable adjustment was the wind guard! Tightened up its throw to kind of meter the hay input and it really made a huge difference with inconsistent windrows.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Well I think I have this baler working pretty well now. It makes pretty darn nice bales considering the crummy fields we have been on lately. They are nice and tight and average 34" in length and about 40-50 lbs. 
I have a few more things to address and I think it will be about as good as a new one.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I now have a few weeks before we get back into making bales and wanted to fix up a few things on the baler, like the sloppy bushings in the big gear that runs the knotters and shimming or what ever is needed to get them back to the proper specs! They are still sloppy even after I turned the collars? 
Mike, can I shim them to tighten them up or do I need to do something different? 
Also how much friction material is supposed to be on the clutch plates? I seem to get a lot of noise from this area like a snap every now and then and squawk constantly. Has all new spiders too hence my concern. I am going to go through the pick-up as well as it clicks constantly so I want to fix that as well(has a missing tine on 1 or 2 pairs and a bent one,this way when I got it). 
My tractor is smooth as silk and quite quiet for an old machine so I hear all these things and want it fixed while I have a break in the action.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

skyrydr2 said:


> If I were independently wealthy I would immediately,BUT since Im now dang near broke, I really cant spend that extra $140 plus they want for one right now.
> Knife clearance is my biggest concern right now. Any help on this would be great.


I picked one up for about $25. Came in about 6 or 7 days. Here is the link. It is a reproduction, but is clear and readable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007HO2F0A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I know that I am late on trying to help answer your question on the twine fingers but here is what I do take the twine finger and weld up the deepest part of the curve so the twine cant get caught on the finger,I have ran into this problem several times and advancing them never seems to help but this aleways solved the problem,I talked to one of the engineers at new holland explained it to him to see if they would change the shape of the finger he understood but they havent changed nothing yet we need Ed Nolt back up there with his blacksmith engineering he was the man


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