# Case IH 7130 or Massey 3690, what to choose, that is the question.



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

We have been looking at two tractors. The Case IH 7130 2wd, and the MF3690 MFWD. Both are about the same money, and same number of hours. I am kind of leaning toward the Case, and dad is leaning toward the Massey. I like the fact that the Case is a little heavier, and was built her in the USA. Dad like the Massey because of the MFWD. Both look like nice tractors, and the horsepower is about the same. I don't know if we would need a tractor with 4wd, but who knows. We would not only pulling the baler, and spreader, but also would plow with it. The Case is a 1991 tractor and the Massey is a 1994 tractor; I guess one advantage to the Massey is that is newer, but not sure that really should be much of factor. At this point distance does not really make much difference, we will have to have it shipped anyway.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have no brand preference, but nobody can dispute that equally powered, weighted and equal tires, MFWD will outpull 2WD and of course will be less likely to get stuck.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> I have no brand preference, but nobody can dispute that equally powered, weighted and equal tires, MFWD will outpull 2WD and of course will be less likely to get stuck.


I had not thought of that. As far as getting stuck, if the field is that wet I am not going to crawl in there.


----------



## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

If you have not would look at tractordata.com and see how the specs on the two compare. I bought MFWD three years back and pulling same tillage implements I used with two wheel drive tractor with about 75 or so percentage of it's hp. The MFWD tractor also had fel on it and the other does not. The MWFD has been used more than I expected. I been surprised the times I switched on the four wheel drive to find the tractor felt liked it jumped as the front wheels began to pull. Did not realize the rears were spinning as much as they were. As least on mine when the four wheel drive is engage it does not turn as tight.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

CowboyRam said:


> I had not thought of that. As far as getting stuck, if the field is that wet I am not going to crawl in there.


I remember back in the 70's, Kubota had come onto the scene with 4WD tractors and they would show them out pulling Deere, case, etc tractors with considerably more horsepower. They would hook a plow and till soil with a 40HP tractor without getting stuck and the 50HP 2WD tractors just screwed into the dirt or lost traction. They also used to brag you'll spend less on fuel because a lower powered 4WD consumes less diesel than a larger 2WD. 
Traction makes up for power. Now of course it wont make as much PTO power at the stub, but you're considering buying 2 tractors with equal HP. 
But if they have equal HP, you might be able to run the MFWD with lower throttle when plowing. If you have to climb hills, MFWD is going to go places the 2WD wont.

I remember in the 70's when I was a kid, my dad an old 60's IH 1310 4WD pickup. I loved that thing. Had a V-8 gas engine and 4 speed manual. We were in boy scouts and another dad had a Ford-250 2WD. He would always say "4WD is over rated. I can go anywhere your 4WD truck can go with my posi rear and a good set of tires". Another one of the dads had a Jeep Commando. 
Well one weekend, we were at our scout camp out on the King Ranch and the main road to our campsite was closed. We had to "bush wack" into the camp site and the guy with the F-250 with posi rear and great tires must have gotten stuck 3 times. Each time, we pulled him out with our old IH and it had old, pretty shot snow tires on it. I'll never forget the look on the Ford guys face. He was so humiliated. He never said a word again.
I laugh at people who tell me a posi 2WD will equal a 4WD off road. It wont.

Regardless of the brand, I think your dad is right.


----------



## Widairy (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm a Deere guy that bought a 7110 case three years ago. Buy the case. That 8.3 liter is tough to beat and the rest of those tractors is solid.


----------



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Widairy said:


> I'm a Deere guy that bought a 7110 case three years ago. Buy the case. That 8.3 liter is tough to beat and the rest of those tractors is solid.


+1


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> I remember back in the 70's, Kubota had come onto the scene with 4WD tractors and they would show them out pulling Deere, case, etc tractors with considerably more power. They would hook a plow and till soil with a 40HP tractor without getting stuck and the 2WD tractors just screwed into the dirt or lost traction. They also used to brag you'll spend less on fuel because a lower powered 4WD consumes less diesel than a larger 2WD.
> 
> Traction makes up for power. Now of course it wont make as much PTO power at the stub, but you're considering buying 2 tractors with equal HP.
> 
> ...


Dad talks about when He worked for Warren Livestock back in the 60's they would give him a 4x4 and because of the hard ride it was hurting his back to much so he had the boss get hima 2wd for the better ride. He said he did not get stuck as much because he would not crawl into those places. He was a lot more care where he drove.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

CowboyRam said:


> Dad talks about when He worked for Warren Livestock back in the 60's they would give him a 4x4 and because of the hard ride it was hurting his back to much so he had the boss get hima 2wd for the better ride. He said he did not get stuck as much because he would not crawl into those places. He was a lot more care where he drove.


I can understand that some guys get overly confident with 4WD and get stuck thinking they can go anywhere. The difference with a tractor is, when you have to get the job done on a hillside or till some slippery soil, 4WD is a lifesaver. With a pickup truck, outside of mountain rescue or flood rescue situations, you can park and walk if you have a 2WD. 
In your dad's situation, 4WD trucks rode terrible back in the 60's. Today, you'd have a hard time telling the ride difference between a 4WD and 2WD pickup.
I would think in some cases, 4WD tractors may ride better than 2WD tractors because of taller tires.
Again, I'm not suggesting you buy one over the other because of brand. I think both brands are very good tractors. But if you need 4WD, you need it. If you don't, get the 2WD CaseIH is a great choice, too. 2WD tractors turn tighter and probably cheaper to maintain.
For me, a 2WD tractor wouldn't be very useful, but as I see time and time again, we tend to see things through our own "lens". You may be generally farming on flat, dry land. I am farming on hilly, sometimes wet land.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Be sure to check the pivot on front ax of the MF.I've heard a very expensive fix if not been greased and wears threw the bushing into cast.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Well the Massey is out, he won't deal on my tractor. I was leaning more towards the Case anyway, and this morning dad was too.

What do you guys think of the International 5488. Is that a good tractor, and what about finding parts for it.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh I can tell you all about that lol if you catch it before the pinion snaps off it's cheaper.



swmnhay said:


> Be sure to check the pivot on front ax of the MF.I've heard a very expensive fix if not been greased and wears threw the bushing into cast.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Make that all the Dana Ag axles Deere or Agco


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

CowboyRam said:


> Well the Massey is out, he won't deal on my tractor. I was leaning more towards the Case anyway, and this morning dad was too.
> 
> What do you guys think of the International 5488. Is that a good tractor, and what about finding parts for it.


Wasn't the 88 series covered in your other search post? Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard someone so actively try to talk themselves out of a Magnum. Is there something in particular making you nervous about it?


----------



## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

My thing is there are probably 20 times more 7100 series tractors out there then the 88 series IH. Also if you run them till they die used parts would be more available for the CaseIH. Those 88 IH s are collectors items I would bet parts supply will dry up a lot quicker then Case IH parts.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Wasn't the 88 series covered in your other search post? Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard someone so actively try to talk themselves out of a Magnum. Is there something in particular making you nervous about it?


No, I was just looking at them and they are a little cheaper, but at the same time they are also early 80's. I never really thought to much about the International because I am concerned about being able to get parts. I was Just trying to keep my options open. I am going to try to buy the Case, that is if they will deal.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

I talked to a neighbor that has a 6180 Massey, and he does not really like it. The way he talked it was a bugger to work on. I am kind of glad the guy with the Massey did not want to deal. Do need anything that is hard to work on; I don't really like twisting wrenches anyway, but I do it when I need to.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm curious what he means. 6180 isn't the same tractor but not one of the bad ones mf made.



CowboyRam said:


> I talked to a neighbor that has a 6180 Massey, and he does not really like it. The way he talked it was a bugger to work on. I am kind of glad the guy with the Massey did not want to deal. Do need anything that is hard to work on; I don't really like twisting wrenches anyway, but I do it when I need to.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

slowzuki said:


> I'm curious what he means. 6180 isn't the same tractor but not one of the bad ones mf made.


Well talking to him, I got the impression that he is a John Deere man.


----------



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Man pull the trigger on a "boxcar magnum" as long as it isnt just completly worn out you will like it. 
Better than a deere of the time period, with about the same aftermarket parts. 
They were well built. I bet if the remade thr 7x10 magnums today and deere remade the 4x55 series more people would buy the magnum, i know i would. Hell i would buy two. I bought mine with 6500hrs on it. And man that must have been a nice tractor brand new. I just think everytime i am in it, the licky SOB that got to put the first 6500hrs on it.

I have put about 1200hrs on it and I have only changed oil and filters. What the hell was the original owner thinking selling it. They traded 3 in on 3 new pumas. Good luck getting 6500hrs of little to no repairs on those.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Any JD 4650's or 4755's around for you to look at?


----------



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Believe he wanted both 540 and 1000pto. Puts 4650 and 4755 out.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

StxPecans said:


> Believe he wanted both 540 and 1000pto. Puts 4650 and 4755 out.


Ya. We feed with the manure spreader; beats the hell out of a wagon and a fork when it is 40 below and the wind is blowing, so yes we need both.


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

7130 is only 1000 pto?


----------



## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

See I was in the same boat as you I wanted 140+ pto hp and 1000 and 540 pto. Not many tractors in that hp range with dual pto. I wanted a 7120 for both ptos but could not find one. Came across a 7110 and settled. They dynoed it at the dealer i bought it from and it held 1000pto speed up to 170hp then it started dropping. It also held 145hp for a good 45mins. I was impressed with that dealer. They dynoed it, checked hydralic flow, changed out evey filter and all oils. And threw in a weight bracket and 15 suitcase weights(new). And mind you i was cross country first saw it at 4:30pm by 10am the next morning deal was done and loaded on my trailer. 
Think they were asking 29,500 7110 6500hrs 2wd clean cab faded paint. I paid 28,500. September 2016. The hydralic oil change isnt cheap.

Infact as much as they bent over backwards for me i thought they were trying to push a POS tractor on me or somthing. But it has turned out well. Hell at the end of the trade i asked about an owners manual and the sales man said he will order one and ship it to me. I drove off thinking this boy from texas wont see that. A week later i get a package from them, manual tshirts caps keychains.....
Jewell Equipment, Jewell Kansas


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

StxPecans said:


> See I was in the same boat as you I wanted 140+ pto hp and 1000 and 540 pto. Not many tractors in that hp range with dual pto. I wanted a 7120 for both ptos but could not find one. Came across a 7110 and settled. They dynoed it at the dealer i bought it from and it held 1000pto speed up to 170hp then it started dropping. It also held 145hp for a good 45mins. I was impressed with that dealer. They dynoed it, checked hydralic flow, changed out evey filter and all oils. And threw in a weight bracket and 15 suitcase weights(new). And mind you i was cross country first saw it at 4:30pm by 10am the next morning deal was done and loaded on my trailer.
> Think they were asking 29,500 7110 6500hrs 2wd clean cab faded paint. I paid 28,500. September 2016. The hydralic oil change isnt cheap.
> 
> Infact as much as they bent over backwards for me i thought they were trying to push a POS tractor on me or somthing. But it has turned out well. Hell at the end of the trade i asked about an owners manual and the sales man said he will order one and ship it to me. I drove off thinking this boy from texas wont see that. A week later i get a package from them, manual tshirts caps keychains.....


I found a 7130 with both, I am going to try and buy it. I am going to have them put it on the dyno, and check the hydraulic flow before I sign a check.


----------



## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

CowboyRam said:


> I found a 7130 with both, I am going to try and buy it. I am going to have them put it on the dyno, and check the hydraulic flow before I sign a check.


Good luck


----------



## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> No, I was just looking at them and they are a little cheaper, but at the same time they are also early 80's. I never really thought to much about the International because I am concerned about being able to get parts. I was Just trying to keep my options open. I am going to try to buy the Case, that is if they will deal.


I wouldn't worry to much about parts. Between Dad and I we have four 5088s. Very little that you can't just go to the dealer and get. Some things like windows and body parts they may have to order. Lots of salvage yards also.

I think you'll be very happy with a 5488 but I do think you'll like the 7130 more. The backwards doors on the 88 series can be annoying but not a deal breaker. The 88 series 2wd has a weaker IH front end compared to the magnum front end. Dad converted his 5088 with a loader over to the square tube heavier style front end. Its stout like a magnum. Has bigger magnum spindles. If i'm doing a lot of forward and reverse shifting I like the 88s transmission because its easy to go from medium to reverse. The magnum is a little different having to go all the way down, over, and up into reverse but its not really that big of deal. There is also a kit for the magnum to jump from 8th gear over to 3 an 4 reverse. Some of the early magnums only have 2 reverses but the later ones have 4 gears in reverse.

If you need a dual pto I think is pretty similar to pull one out of an 88 series as it is a magnum. Fairly easy to do.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

How well does the Magnum start in the winter. My massey you have to have the block heating plugged in and give it a good dose of starting fluid. Even in the summer it wont start unless you give it some starting fluid.


----------



## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

For Wyoming, I would plug in every night and park it in good shelter. It's the battery you have to worry about, not the Cummins.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Magnums will start down to the 20s with no fuss and no help. Below about 25 might take a couple tries. Best just plug em in below 20.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

CowboyRam said:


> How well does the Magnum start in the winter. My massey you have to have the block heating plugged in and give it a good dose of starting fluid. Even in the summer it wont start unless you give it some starting fluid.


It sounds like your Massey was sufficiently worn out. Whatever you get will be better.


----------



## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Parked inside in an unheated building a magnum will start down to about zero without being plugged in. I prefer to have it plugged in under about 15 or 20 though as it starts so much better and I feel its easier on it.


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

I would lean more toward the Magnum for the big square baler. Depending on who you ask the powershift would be almost as good as a cvt on the baler. But for feeding cattle in winter maybe the 4 wheel drive should be given a little more consideration. Guess if it came down to a choice overall condition, tire condition and options such as 3 or 4 remotes could be the deal maker.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

danwi said:


> I would lean more toward the Magnum for the big square baler. Depending on who you ask the powershift would be almost as good as a cvt on the baler. But for feeding cattle in winter maybe the 4 wheel drive should be given a little more consideration. Guess if it came down to a choice overall condition, tire condition and options such as 3 or 4 remotes could be the deal maker.


The last two winters I never had a problem with getting stuck in my Massey 2wd, and we had way more snow that any previous years. In fact Riverton had almost 4' of snow for the season; the most in like 40 years. So I am not worried about getting stuck during the winter; although I guess anything can happen depending on the conditions.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The location isn't close to you but this should be some interesting indicator of the value of your Massey.

https://www.auctiontime.com/listings/farm-equipment/auctions/online/27142455/1980-massey-ferguson-2745


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> The location isn't close to you but this should be some interesting indicator of the value of your Massey.
> 
> https://www.auctiontime.com/listings/farm-equipment/auctions/online/27142455/1980-massey-ferguson-2745


Ya, I am already watching that. I got a number back from the guy that has the tractor that I am trying to buy; all he is going to give is $3,000. I think I am going to have to sell mine first. I had found a 2675 massey, it has a locked up engine with a 8 speed trany; I thought about trying to buy it, but he wants $3,300 for it. He would come down to $2,600; I think buy the time I got it to Wyoming and put the trany into mine I would have somewhere near $10,000.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

CowboyRam said:


> Ya, I am already watching that. I got a number back from the guy that has the tractor that I am trying to buy; all he is going to give is $3,000. I think I am going to have to sell mine first. I had found a 2675 massey, it has a locked up engine with a 8 speed trany; I thought about trying to buy it, but he wants $3,300 for it. He would come down to $2,600; I think buy the time I got it to Wyoming and put the trany into mine I would have somewhere near $10,000.


$3000 does not surprise me, though I almost think that's generous for trade value. Proceed as you need. If your engine needs a shot of ether even in summer, I'm not sure I'd be trying to transplant into something else.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> $3000 does not surprise me, though I almost think that's generous for trade value. Proceed as you need. If your engine needs a shot of ether even in summer, I'm not sure I'd be trying to transplant into something else.


That is only when started for the first time in the morning; once it has been run it starts fine. I always thought that was pretty much the norm for those big ole V8's, but I could be wrong.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

The 7130 I am looking at dyno'd at 225hp.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Good chance the pumps been messed with. At those power levels the radiator has to be kept clean always. And don’t lug it way down or the EGT will get too high.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Gearclash said:


> Good chance the pumps been messed with. At those power levels the radiator has to be kept clean always. And don't lug it way down or the EGT will get too high.


Would it be a good Idea for me to turn that down if I buy it.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

CowboyRam said:


> Would it be a good Idea for me to turn that down if I buy it.


No, I would leave it. My brother has 2 7140s. One is set for stock power, the other dynoed 240 when we had it in for head gasket seepage. It sure is nice to have the power when its needed. Just have to remember to keep the engine wound up if you need the power.


----------



## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

The same engine is rated @ 285 hp in a combine of the same age.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Learned a lot about turning up diesels in my younger years. 
One engine I studied quite a bit and turned up myself is the DT466. The DT466 could be had in stock form from 185/480 all the way up to 300/860. One would think its just pump adjustments. I found out IH makes more changes than I thought with each bump in power. Everything from pump, turbo, injectors, even pistons. 
Taking a low power DT466 and turning it up a modest amount, like could result in a melted piston in the wrong hands. 
I think turning up any Diesel engine should be done with a lot of caution. Ask questions, avoid what "kids" tell you is OK to do. I also think an EGT gauge is a $100 worth of insurance to keep and eye on overheating your exhaust gas temps to 1400* and melting a piston and also making sure you've cooled down enough to keep your turbo safe.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks guys. We pulled the hammer down on this one and bought it. Just waiting on the banker.


----------



## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> The 7130 I am looking at dyno'd at 225hp.


doesn't surprise me. Dads 7220 dyno'd at 200hp. My 7230 hasn't been checked but its gotta a lot more snort than Dads. I've always been told that Case IH sent the magnums out putting out more hp than they were rated. Maybe it was to beat the competition.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IHCman said:


> doesn't surprise me. Dads 7220 dyno'd at 200hp. My 7230 hasn't been checked but its gotta a lot more snort than Dads. I've always been told that Case IH sent the magnums out putting out more hp than they were rated. Maybe it was to beat the competition.


I see that with quite a few tractors on tractor data. They test higher than the manufacturer rates them.


----------



## cjsr8595 (Jul 7, 2014)

If your looking all over give these guys a shout, i've dealt with them for many years. A bunch of good guys. They have multiple stores in KY and Indiana. Not all of thier equipment is on thier website. Call the palmyra store, thats thier main office.

https://www.jacobisales.com/


----------

