# Standby generator



## glinka

Thinking about whole house/barn generator. Are these worth installing or a waste of money? Thinking about Generac generator run by LP.


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## NewBerlinBaler

In a previous life, I commissioned / serviced backup generator sets. Not home-sized units but much larger ones used at hospitals, phone companies, data centers, etc. Two questions to ask yourself:

1) How often does the power go out and when it happens, how long is the outage? If you're only without juice for an hour or so once every few years (like me), it probably doesn't make economic sense to put in a permanently-installed, whole-house backup power system. If you have regular (once or more a year) outages and they last for days, go to question two.

2) Does the house/shop use electricity for heat, hot water, cooking or clothes drying? If the answer is "no" to all four items, a small (5 kilowatt or less) generator is all you need. If the answer is "yes" to any item, or worse case, it's "yes" to all four items, you'll need a much larger (10 to 20 kilowatt) generator.

Evaluate these questions and you'll have a starting point to see to see how much $$ is involved.

Good Luck

Gary


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## ontario hay man

I like pto generators. They are handy and portable.


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## slowzuki

Around here you can get bigger generators cheaper than small ones. Once a guy can't roll it in and out of his garage the resale market is pretty poor. 5kW-20kW easy to find but often 3 phase and high voltage, assume you need a step down transformer as a start.

Like Ontario says, the pto generators are pretty cheap but you'd better have an old reliable tractor to run it with or a stationary diesel to hook it too. Usually need your chore tractor for feeding, plowing etc and often clearing trees when power is out, plus it racks up a lot of hours.


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## swmnhay

Most guys around here run a PTO unit if they have a house plus some livestock stuff to run.It's a lot cheaper then having another engine sitting there not being used much when you have a shed full of tractors sitting there already.

Just a house you can get buy with a gas powered 5KW

The hog confinements run automatic units that start within seconds of the power going out,pit gases could kill the pigs otherwise.

Here is my Price on a Katolight/MTU 25 KW PTO.5 yr warranty.

25 KW Generator $3445
PTO shaft $175
Trailer $680
10' cord set $257
Total $4557

Some guys build there own trailers or use a old PTO shaft to save some $


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## ontario hay man

How much would shipping to Ontario be cy.


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## swmnhay

ontario hay man said:


> How much would shipping to Ontario be cy.


No idea.But I could find out.Just need your zip code.


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## ontario hay man

Its postal code up here lol. L9v3l9. I havnt priced them for a while but off the top of my head that sounds really cheap.


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## Teslan

glinka said:


> Thinking about whole house/barn generator. Are these worth installing or a waste of money? Thinking about Generac generator run by LP.


i have just that for the last year and it works great. Power goes off for about 5 seconds while the Generac fires up. Runs nearly everything without a problem. In the last year it's been used about 10 times.


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## Farmerbrown2

My father had a 25KW pto job installed in 1989 since then I would say there have been only 5 or 6 years we did not use it, guy who installed it said we would never use it . One time we used it for three days in the summer with 50 steers on hand, I wouldn't want to carry water that long . Hurricane sandy we used it for 5 days and in winter of 2002 7 days . If I had extra cash I would install auto job in a heart beat.


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## ontario hay man

We had a blackout in 03 for 3 days. We had 60 cow calf and 50 sow farrow to finish. I had to pail water from the creek into a water trough in the tractor bucket then into the cows and pigs. Too make it more fun it was over 100º all 3 days. They drank as fast as i could bring it. Talk about a PITA.


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## Tim/South

I have a 7kw Onan diesel diesel I hook up if we are going to be with out power for more than a day. Most of the time it sits in the barn and only cranked now and then to make sure it does.

The longest we have used it was 5 days. All our friends came here to shower after 2 days. Most of the time we do not lose power for more than a day.


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## glinka

We just had an ice storm, many in neighborhood were without power for 6 to 8 days. It missed us this time. I worry about well pump and tank heaters in the barn, as well as the house things. Heard bad stories about people having to haul gas and fill portable generators every 8 hours That's one thing, using LP to power generator, that sounds good.


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## mlappin

Buy a size larger than you think you need or even two. Cheaper to pay more now than have to buy a larger one later.

I'm looking at no less than a 24k, automatic standbys in that range are outrageous, I also need to use it at the main pole where the meter is located and most of the automatic switching gear I've seen is meant to be mounted in the house so added cost on outdoor switching. Also need a size larger as I have natural gas produces less power than LP so need around a 30k to get 24k on NAT gas. I do have no less than two 60hp tractors on the farm at all times so I'll stick with a pto unit.

Our power doesn't go out that often, but usually when it does it's hotter than hell and the cows get mighty thirsty in a hurry, also the wife has her cardiac issues and COPD so if it's hot it's usually humid and she just can't be without central air for very long under those conditions.

Went the portable route once when out of power for four days from an ice storm, PITA is the nicest way of putting it getting to town for more gas.


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## mlappin

ontario hay man said:


> Its postal code up here lol. L9v3l9. I havnt priced them for a while but off the top of my head that sounds really cheap.


You're postal codes like in the UK? One code per 4 houses if I understood it correctly. I can punch in Tammy's aunt's and it will practically take me to her door. At home if I use the enhanced zip code google maps will show my main drive.


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## mlappin

Just got to looking and figuring, plugging in both tractors to feed cows eats up 2500 watts, a thousand watt block heater and a 1500.

Got to looking online and a standby around 24k or higher can get real close to $10,000 or more. Think I'll stick with a pto unit.


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## ontario hay man

mlappin said:


> You're postal codes like in the UK? One code per 4 houses if I understood it correctly. I can punch in Tammy's aunt's and it will practically take me to her door. At home if I use the enhanced zip code google maps will show my main drive.


Up here its a broader area. Maybe 5 postal codes per county average. Every province has their own first letter or letters. Ontario has l m n and Saskatchewan has s and Alberta is t. Its confusing I would rather have your system.


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## mlappin

ontario hay man said:


> Up here its a broader area. Maybe 5 postal codes per county average. Every province has their own first letter or letters. Ontario has l m n and Saskatchewan has s and Alberta is t. Its confusing I would rather have your system.


Thanks for clarifying.

I'm surprised the enhanced zip code hasn't caught on better yet here.

Our zip code of 46554 covers pretty much the whole North Liberty area and then some. Use 46554-xx01 and it takes you right to our driveway on google maps.


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## haybaler101

Just put in 105 kw diesel with full automatic for 25 grand. Just wish the house was close enough to hook in. House is full electric/geothermal and impending storms make me nervous. Knock on wood, in the 69 years my family has been on the farm, longest without power is about 6 hours. We never owned a generator when we milked and I don't think we were ever more than 3 hours late starting a milking.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> Just put in 105 kw diesel with full automatic for 25 grand. Just wish the house was close enough to hook in. House is full electric/geothermal and impending storms make me nervous. Knock on wood, in the 69 years my family has been on the farm, longest without power is about 6 hours. We never owned a generator when we milked and I don't think we were ever more than 3 hours late starting a milking.


We never had one either when milking. Even during the blizzard of 77-78 we dumped milk for the week it took em to get our road plowed out but never lost power. Weather just seems stranger these days and it also seems like power companies aren't spending the money on trimming trees like they used to.


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## slowzuki

Actually the postal codes in most of canada takes you to within 4-5 houses, only in some areas with the old postal codes does it not. Our postal code used to be the rural mail office about 15 miles away before the switch.

From entering it in the Kijiji ad (like craigslist) with no other address, I still get people showing up poking around looking for items I have for sale even though it says call ahead and do not show up on my property without calling/emailing before hand.



mlappin said:


> Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> I'm surprised the enhanced zip code hasn't caught on better yet here.
> 
> Our zip code of 46554 covers pretty much the whole North Liberty area and then some. Use 46554-xx01 and it takes you right to our driveway on google maps.


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## barnrope

Just as a side note, the old two cylinder John Deeres don't work too good on a PTO generator. When I was a kid, dad put a JD "G" on the generator. The lights got brighter and dimmer with each fire of the cylinders. Also the picture on the TV bounced from larger to smaller with each pop of the old Johny Popper. We didn't figure that was too good on the electrical equipment so never put a two cylinder tractor back on the generator.


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## ontario hay man

slowzuki said:


> Actually the postal codes in most of canada takes you to within 4-5 houses, only in some areas with the old postal codes does it not. Our postal code used to be the rural mail office about 15 miles away before the switch.From entering it in the Kijiji ad (like craigslist) with no other address, I still get people showing up poking around looking for items I have for sale even though it says call ahead and do not show up on my property without calling/emailing before hand.


Thats weird we have 6 postal codes in a 15 mile radius of our town.


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## swmnhay

A lot of guys here will put a PTO generator with 540 PTO on a tractor with 1000 PTO and run throttle accordingly.They save a lot of fuel by doing this but the Generator Co frowns on it because the tractor could pull down easier if a motor kicks in or someone gets in the tractor and opens it up wide open.


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## ontario hay man

Something similar happened to us were I used to work. The guys that had the contract pumping out liquid manure opened the throttle on the agitator tractor wide open causing a tidal wave of shit. It blew off 3 slats and 12 fats fell in. What a mess. Boss totally lost it. I dont blame him.


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## glinka

Are there any tax related deductions for this type of equipment?


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## mlappin

glinka said:


> Are there any tax related deductions for this type of equipment?


If it's farm use you can depreciate it and you won't pay sells tax.

Only way it could be green is if you had a methane digester and ran the engine for the generator of that.


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## Teslan

glinka said:


> Are there any tax related deductions for this type of equipment?


I toyed with the idea of depreciating my whole house generator and probably could have gotten away with it easily, but I felt for me it really wasn't farm equipment. It was like purchasing a furnace or appliance for my residence. Now if you would need it to provide power to feed and water animals then yes you could. If you don't have livestock that need major power I would say the costs of a whole house generator like the one I have is more affordable based on the price list that Cy put together for the PTO generator. My Generac generator puts out 11k. It cost about $5000 installed and is way better then having to go out, get a tractor started. Drag the PTO generator to the switch and connect it. Then the auto transfer switch shut off when power is turned back on is very valuable. You won't risk getting your generator being blown up or frying a lineman if you haven't disconnected your main shutoff.


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## mlappin

Teslan said:


> I toyed with the idea of depreciating my whole house generator and probably could have gotten away with it easily, but I felt for me it really wasn't farm equipment. It was like purchasing a furnace or appliance for my residence. Now if you would need it to provide power to feed and water animals then yes you could. If you don't have livestock that need major power I would say the costs of a whole house generator like the one I have is more affordable based on the price list that Cy put together for the PTO generator. My Generac generator puts out 11k. It cost about $5000 installed and is way better then having to go out, get a tractor started. Drag the PTO generator to the switch and connect it. Then the auto transfer switch shut off when power is turned back on is very valuable. You won't risk getting your generator being blown up or frying a lineman if you haven't disconnected your main shutoff.


I planned on mounting my pro generator to a cement pad then covering it so just have to start a tractor and don't have to mess with a expensive plug either


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## AaronQ

I worked for a nat gas compression company for a few years and we sold and serviced auto start kholer gensets and those things are simply amazing.
They'd start so fast most times you wouldn't even loose the time on your microwave or alarm clock when the power kicked out.
That said they are crazy expensive.
I agree with all you guys that unless you have stock that need water or pumps and equipment that need to stay warm and you don't loose power very often don't bother. 
For us it's a must, we have a pto genset. 45 kva. Way bigger then we'll ever need but the price was right.
We use a 540 to 1000 adapter and here's the best truck ever, all newer john deeres from the 7000 series up do not tally hours if the tractor is not idled over 1000 rpm from the time the key is turned on at each start up. That has saved me over 60 hours of run time just this winter and over 130 last winter..


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## glinka

This may be silly question, but we have been hit by lightning twice. Is generator any kind of attractor for this? Would it matter if I got some kind of surge protection?


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## Vol

Dang glinka.....if i had been struck by lightining twice, I think I would either be re-locating somewhere else on the farm or either just re-locating. I can just imagine what it would be like at your place everytime it came a thunderstorm. Too stressful for me.  h34r:

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

glinka said:


> This may be silly question, but we have been hit by lightning twice. Is generator any kind of attractor for this? Would it matter if I got some kind of surge protection?


A generator would not be a attractor of lightening.Lightening is going to hit something tall that is grounded and may back feed threw the wires and could blow circuits,etc in electrical applances.A surge protector is recommended for TV's,computors,stereos,etc.Electric fencers like to get fried also!!


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## mlappin

swmnhay said:


> A generator would not be a attractor of lightening.Lightening is going to hit something tall that is grounded and may back feed threw the wires and could blow circuits,etc in electrical applances.A surge protector is recommended for TV's,computors,stereos,etc.Electric fencers like to get fried also!!


Power Wizard highly recommends a surge suppressor to plug their fencers into as they feel more chargers are damaged from surges on the supply side than lightening actually hitting the fence.


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## dwarner

I've been studying this topic for a while myself and have come to the following conclusions: I was first thinking of a small pto unit or big portable. Now I am thinking of a smaller auto-standby. I now have an LP furnace with a 1000 gal tank behind the house. I mainly only need to power the house as I have no livestock and no well either. Even though I don't have expensive livestock, I have something even more valuable: my family, I have a little one now and we seem to have more storm trouble in the winter than summer. Winter can be pretty rugged out here on the prairie and we are near the end of the power service line. I can be sitting in the dark and see several of my neighbors yardlights(talk about frustrating.) All we need is a tiny bit of ice and since the wind seldom goes under 15mph pretty soon the power is off. Was 35 miles from home at a meeting and my wife called and said the power was off(not a good feeling) Even though I am capable of going out and hooking up a generator, an automatic setup seems much much easier. I know a 14kw setup will cost about double what a PTO version would be, but then I don't have to sit in the dark and wonder if the power will be back in 5 minutes or 5 days. Even though I don't need to run 3 block heaters, a silo unloader and a dairybarn, I am still very impressed with a auto-standby unit. ALSO, check with your power co. ours will set you up so that when there are severe demands, they can turn on your gen-set to reduce the system load, in return they give you a discount per KW and will test it monthly(if it doesn't do that itself) Sorry for the long post, but everyones needs vary by situation.


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## Teslan

dwarner said:


> I've been studying this topic for a while myself and have come to the following conclusions: I was first thinking of a small pto unit or big portable. Now I am thinking of a smaller auto-standby. I now have an LP furnace with a 1000 gal tank behind the house. I mainly only need to power the house as I have no livestock and no well either. Even though I don't have expensive livestock, I have something even more valuable: my family, I have a little one now and we seem to have more storm trouble in the winter than summer. Winter can be pretty rugged out here on the prairie and we are near the end of the power service line. I can be sitting in the dark and see several of my neighbors yardlights(talk about frustrating.) All we need is a tiny bit of ice and since the wind seldom goes under 15mph pretty soon the power is off. Was 35 miles from home at a meeting and my wife called and said the power was off(not a good feeling) Even though I am capable of going out and hooking up a generator, an automatic setup seems much much easier. I know a 14kw setup will cost about double what a PTO version would be, but then I don't have to sit in the dark and wonder if the power will be back in 5 minutes or 5 days. Even though I don't need to run 3 block heaters, a silo unloader and a dairybarn, I am still very impressed with a auto-standby unit. ALSO, check with your power co. ours will set you up so that when there are severe demands, they can turn on your gen-set to reduce the system load, in return they give you a discount per KW and will test it monthly(if it doesn't do that itself) Sorry for the long post, but everyones needs vary by situation.


I don't think you really even need a 14KW system. Unless of course you plan on running a clothes dryer, running a microwave, running a well, running a hair dryer, and running your blower on your furnace at the same time. Once this last summer when the power went off and the generator clicked on the generator safetied off. Because I wasn't thinking about it and the A/C kicked on and my well was going full blast watering the lawn.


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## mlappin

Teslan said:


> I don't think you really even need a 14KW system. Unless of course you plan on running a clothes dryer, running a microwave, running a well, running a hair dryer, and running your blower on your furnace at the same time. Once this last summer when the power went off and the generator clicked on the generator safetied off. Because I wasn't thinking about it and the A/C kicked on and my well was going full blast watering the lawn.


In the winter you might need quite a bit more. If you have cattle gotta keep those waterers from freezing, just the two tractors I need to feed cows would eat up 2500 watts when plugged in.


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## glinka

I was thinking about a 20KW standby. We run 3 stock tank heaters, those alone pull 4500 watts. Also, have well, electric water heater. Winter would be the only reason to go this big.


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## rjmoses

About 7-8 years ago, we were losing electricity several times a winter for as many as 5 days running.

So I bought a 8500 Watt (13,500 surge) electric start generator, put in a transfer switch, etc. All told cost me about $2,500.

Haven't used the doggone thing once since then! I guess this was the best insurance policy I could have bought!

Ralph


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## swmnhay

It's a good idea to run them every yr.


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## rjmoses

swmnhay said:


> It's a good idea to run them every yr.


Yepp. I run mine about 2-3 months for about 5 minutes. I keep maybe a 1/2 gal of gas in the tank. Turn gas off every time and let it run till it dies. That way I don't have a problem with gas eating away or gumming up the lines.

Ralph


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## swmnhay

It's pretty simple to size a generator.Get alist of all electrical stuff and see what the total is.I have a chart to show how many watts they take.


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## haybaler101

Mine exercises every Monday morning for 50 minutes under power. But, then again, 27000 turkeys depend on it for survival.


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## Teslan

swmnhay said:


> It's a good idea to run them every yr.


Mine starts every Friday and runs for about 20 minutes.


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