# Coastal Bermuda - Crude Protein content vs time between cuttings



## chetlenox

Just to encourage some testing discussion, I'll include some data I've collected on my hay. The plot is tested crude protein % as a function of the number of days between cuttings. My hay is Coastal Bermuda grown in North Texas, with a mix of winter rye and clover for my first cutting. I've also included some published data from papers I've found, and they agree pretty well with my results.

Chet.


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## hay wilson in TX

There is a lot of misinformation regarding protein and harvest interval. 
If the bermudagrass has been fertilized with *40 to 50 lbs/A of nitrogen *per ton of expected yield.

Then cutting at 28 days will result in roughly 19% CP.

If a 12% CP is your goal then then a 42 day harvest interval will be ideal.

If you are heavy on total yield and 10% CP is good enough then a 48 day interval works just fine.

After stretched out bermudagrass reaches about 18 inches in length the bottom leaves start to fall off, resulting in very little increased yield and a decrease in quality.

Part of the lower CP results with shorter harvest interval can be attributed to not paying attention to details.

First detail leave the hay out flat till the day before baling. A couple of days anyway. (You will need enough fertilizer to give the growth so you will have enough hay to rake from a wide swath)
The the day before the day of baling rake the hay at first light. You want a good dew, and a Relative Humidity above 90%. Rake the day of baling there [/U]there will be extra moisture inside the windrow which delays the hay drying enough to bale.

Bale the hay the next day, providing the hay is fully cured the night before. Probably want to start baling around 10 am, when the humidity is in the 65% humidity range. 
Keep an eye on the baler and when the leaves are starting to shatter, pull out of the field and come back tomorrow. Here in Central Texas is rare that we have more than 3 hours of good baling conditions. Start when it is close to being too damp, i.e. in the 18% to 20% moisture range. It will be too dry to bale in 3 hours or less. Plan accordingly. One way to extend the baling time is to rake maybe a third of your hay the morning you plan to bale. That extra moisture inside the windrow will give another hour of baling before the hay starts to shatter.
Here is a fact that is seldom mentioned. Bermudagrass shatters leaves worse than alfalfa ever thought of doing. Disregard the humidity & we can shatter all the leaves off and end up baling bermudagrass straw. It may be pretty and green but straw still.

Two handy tool. An on the go moisture tester for the baler, and a Kestrel model 3000 hand held weather station. Gives wind, temperature, & Humidity. Just what you need for spraying and hay harvesting.


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## chetlenox

HayWilson,

I'm surprised that you talk of losing the leaves off Coastal during raking and baling. I'm new to this, but I never thought (or saw) that I was losing leaves during raking and baling when I didn't have morning dew or high humidity to assist.

My crude protein numbers are also never as high as you are quoting (see the chart above). I guess the answer could be "That's because you are knocking all the leaves off". But isn't 19% a pretty high number?

Chet.


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## hay wilson in TX

A Crude Protein level of 19% is not unheard of. That is roughly 60 to 65 lbs of nitrogen per ton of hay. As long as there is adequate levels of the other essential elements it is no problem putting that much nitrogen out. 
With reasonable moisture, 4 to 6 inches per ton of hay, 19% CP is with a 28 day harvest cycle is not unusual. I have seen hay in Hay Contest that test in the 22% to 26% CP range. That is roughly 85 lbs/N/ton. Cut at 21 days and enter the local hay contest.

Other than bragging rights there is not a NEED to go to these extremes. First off bermudagrass will not have the digestible energy that alfalfa of similar quality will have. I do not believe we will ever see a bermudagrass with a RFV in the 180 range.

To my thinking bermudagrass is about optimal at 12% CP. You can feed that & not require supplemental protein. A bait of ground grain will put all the energy needed into a non-dairy cow. That is 40 lbs/N/T, I use for planning purposes 50 lbs/N/T. Then if I do my job and harvest the hay so as to retain the leaves, or have an excessive sweat, I will have a feed that grass eating animals will readily accept. The only other management system is to try for a slightly higher sugar level, but that is for another time.


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## hay wilson in TX

The trick with baling hay is to keep the loss of total dry matter down to 25%.

For raking to keep the leaf loss down to roughly 5% the hay needs to be at 40% moisture. We have this during the first few hours of the morning. As long as there is a little dew on the ground leaf loss from raking or using a tedder will be hopefully less than 5% for each time across the field.

For baling, small squares the highest moisture content is in the 20 to 18% level. This is for dew moisture not for stem moisture. 
If the hay is totally dry close to sunset then night before, then the hwy will be at 20 to 18 % Moisture, with the dew in the leaves. It is in the leaves we need the moisture to keep them from shattering. Round bales because of their bulk need have less moisture to prevent mold. Large Square bales need to have even less moisture to prevent molding. 
Significant leaf loss starts when the hay moisture is in the 12% range. I look at the baler as much as I look at the windrow ahead, sometimes more. 
Bermudagrass leaves are less obvious when being lost through shattering than alfalfa. Still when I am finished baling with bermudagrass the pile of leaves on the knotter will be considerably larger than if I bales alfalfa. 
Here in Central Texas, reasonably close to I-35 we will usually start baling at 11 AM & have to be finished by 1 PM seldom later than 2 PM. The solution is to do our baling at night, when we can have 4 sometimes 5 hours to bale between too dry and too damp. 
In theory with 15 strokes per bale, that is roughly 4 bales a minute or 240 bales an hour. This says to plan to bale 500 to 600 bales a day. That says for a 2 ton/A yield we are limited to roughly 8 acres for each baler that will be in the field, during the day.

An hour and half raking at first light, greasing the equipment, and then baling for a little over 2 hours, and then 4 to 5 hours hauling and stacking hay in the barn before sunset, is enough fun for me.

You note the first hay will be baled at almost 20% moisture, and the last will be down in the 12% maybe 13% moisture range. The last hay baled is the first hay picked up and stacked in the barn. That first hay t be baled will be the last stacked in the barn and or the top two tiers of hay in the stack. Lots of air to disapate the moisture from any sweat the hay may have.

There is a logic in how to bale hay, for best quality and yield. In truth we here in CenTex are fairly lucky. The hay grown further west the humidity may never get up to 50% anytime of the day or night, Which complicates things. Then East of us there are places where the humidity may stay above 80% for days on end. West of us they can not expect to be able to rake hay except the day the hay is cut. East of us if the hay is not in a wide swath but is in a nice tight windrow from day one, that hay may take 10 days to cure. And it probably rains for them every 5 days.

I usually bale alfalfa in April, May & half of June, and bermudagrass in June and July, than again after our fall rains for bermudagrass and alfalfa.

Too bad hay shows are almost a thing of the past here in Texas, because they were great learning events.


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## river rat

One of the best posts I have read here. Thanks Hay Wilson and chetlenox.


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## Feno

Hi for all, im brazilian, and we make round and small bales of bermuda grass. wich variety of coastal you guys are using?never heard of one that have 19 % of protein.we use tifton 85 or coast-cross to bale. with tifton 85 cutting it with 14 days u can have 16,3 % of protein and with 28 days it will have 14,2 % of protein.Some people talk about 18 % of protein, but could never reach that goal...
wich kind of preservative you guys use to bale the coastal bermuda?hard to find any here.so, most of us, still count on weather to dry it..weather and praying...lol as we all do(no rain,Lord, no rain please..not now!)because bringing hay to 15 % moisture turns it mostly into the golden colour that dont attract buyers, even when u have 20~25 % of leaves in each bale of tifton or coast-cross.


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## hay wilson in TX

Coastal was developed in the mid 1940's. By the same man who developed Tifton 85. Coastal is the standard that all other bermudagrass varieties are checked against. Coastal bermudagrass has rather specific soil and climate limitations. There are many other varieties with their own coil and climate requirements.

Here is a good link for baling bermudagrass hay. http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

Figure 1. Quality of Coastal Bermudagrass as Influenced by Age of Accumulated Growth Since Previous Harvest

Just incase the graph does not come through go to figure #1 at http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B911.htm Good thing as the graph is not compatable with this format.

As long as you apply enough fertilizer to allow vegetative growth through 6 or 7 weeks the protein will be in the 12% CP range. This is roughly 2.00% nitrogen used by the crop.

If there is not enough fertilizers the bermudagrass will go to a reproductive stage and stop increasing protein. At this stage every thing will be directed to the seeds. Never matter that the seed for most bermudagrass crosses are not viable. The seed will be there it just will not produce a new plant.

Because the measuring of protein in most testing is a measurement of nitrogen and that is multiplied by 6.25 for protein. It is possible to fool the laboratory by fumigating the hay with a nitrogen source. Gaseous ammonia will do that just fine.

No matter with 800 lbs/A of nitrogen and a 2 week harvest interval you can expect 20% CP
Here, at most universities, they use a standard 28 day harvest interval. This eliminates one variable for their experimental work. Ruminant Animals can not utilize a total feed that is above 12% CP if the digestion is started in the stomach. This is why fish meal and the like are fed to dairy cattle in confinement, in this country. Animal proteins are considered to be bypass proteins and digested in the intestinal track. Forage are broken down and digested initially by bacteria in the rumen, and these bacteria will digest most vegetable protein up to 12% the remainder is given off as a gas.

Not the best explanation but it will have to do.


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## hay wilson in TX

As for using a preservative on bermudagrass. 
Except for Tifton 85 bermudagrass can cure just as well without conditioning. A preservative has never been needed on my farm.

Bermudagrass has such a high percentage of leaves and such small stems that it cures down quicker than alfalfa or some of the grasses so popular.

There are is at least one bermudagrass grower who claims to harvest in the morning and bale in the evening. I do not know how good his product is but he sounds pleased with his results.

If the hay is laying out flat the first 30% of the total moisture goes out through the leaves. Add to this the heat from the sun produces steam pressure and that forces even more moisture out the first day.

My customers have been educated to the idea that an animal is color blind, and selects forage by smell, taste, & feel. My hay will have leaves on the stems, will be slightly sugar in sugar content, and have considerably more protein than the competition's down the road. The man with the coin purse is the only one who gets excited over a nice green color.

With a light yield I can rake the hay the morning after cutting, and bale the following day. With a heavy yield, I usually rake the second morning, sometimes the third morning, and bale the day after raking.

On page 9 of http://utahhay.usu.edu/files/uploads/UHFS07 pdfs for web/Undersander Swathing and Conditioning.pdf there is a graph that illustrates the idea of time required to dry hay. 
It is looking at curing time for alfalfa, but the principle is valid for bermudagrass.

There are some locations where a wide swath for curing hay is not realistic. This is in the arid desert irrigated hay fields of the American West. There the weather conditions is so good for hay drying that it is not necessary or desirable to cure the hay in a wide swath. This is a land with very low relative humidity, and constant winds that blows hard and fast. There after the initial drying of the hay the leaves are so dry it is not possible to rake the hay without knocking all the leaves off.


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## Feno

thx for that explanation, and for those links, very useful
here in Central Brazil , air humidity goes to levels bellow the Sahara desert during 3 months of the year.sometimes u have 8 % AU , and most of the time during that period, it stays on 14~15 % and windy..sop its hard to know wich is the best baling moment..and the tropical sun is another problem.. way much luminosity and heat power the sun have here..much more then in mild areas like yours
Another problem here is the lack of good machinery. we are so heavily taxed for importing that a brand new equipment cost 4 times what it cost in US...most of us still use old equipment from the 70 's..
The hay we produce, mostly is sold to horse owners, especailly for jumping horses..and people pay the double for a tender, greener and softer bermuda grass hay....only a acid like propionic or formic can make that...so, they buy hay for their horses as they are buying hay to feed themselves, and against human stupidity what can u do?lol
I have another question: how do u plant a new hay field? do you use a machine like bermuda king?here a brand new one cost like 
here i use the tractor to plough the land im many lines, and have to hire people to put the grass on the holes and use the hoe to put land above it...


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## dugswife

ok - you guys seem to know your stuff so I have a question.

I am just learning about hay. I live in the Dallas Area and we have coastal bermuda here. We feed horses. I was wondering if someone could educate me on protein loss in hay (pls talk kindergarten...I don't know what most of the abbreviations above stand for) How much does it lose and how quickly? Does it keep on losing protein until it has none and if so how long does that take? For instance we bought some 2007 hay last month that was 5th place in the state fair in 07....but after a year is it so low in protein that it's not any good any more? We were told hay that was several years old was still good as long as it had been kept in a barn. We buy both round and square bales.

I would appreciate an education on this - the internet produces conflicting articles.

Thanks!


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## bunchgrass1

> If there is not enough fertilizers the bermudagrass will go to a reproductive stage and stop increasing protein. At this stage every thing will be directed to the seeds. Never matter that the seed for most bermudagrass crosses are not viable. The seed will be there it just will not produce a new plant.


I know that you're talking specifcally about Bermuda grass but there are factors other than N that contribute to a grass shifting toward reproduction rather than vegetative growth. One is moisture and another is temp (definitely an issue for cool season grasses).



> Because the measuring of protein in most testing is a measurement of nitrogen and that is multiplied by 6.25 for protein. It is possible to fool the laboratory by fumigating the hay with a nitrogen source. Gaseous ammonia will do that just fine.


Ammonia could be used to "fool" a lab (I guess) but there are still benefits to treating/adding ammonia. One, it can be used to preserve hay (keep it from molding). Two, it can also increase the feed value of otherwise low quality forages - like straw or crummy hay. The ammonia makes more of the fiber available for digestion as well as providing a N source for the bacteria inthe rumen - obviously I'm not talking horses.



> No matter with 800 lbs/A of nitrogen and a 2 week harvest interval you can expect 20% CP
> Here, at most universities, they use a standard 28 day harvest interval. This eliminates one variable for their experimental work


.

Looking at the previous graph(s) and commentary about %CP vs harvest interval - there is always going to be a tradeoff between quality and quantity harvested. Surely one can get 20% CP from a given acre but how many pounds of CP did you harvest from that acre? Likely, not too much. On the flip side you can get great quantities of "lumber" quality hay if you wait long enough. Unfortunately, that is one reason that hay shows/competitions have fallen off - guys are just about growing competition hay in the greenhouse. Not realistic



> Ruminant Animals can not utilize a total feed that is above 12% CP if the digestion is started in the stomach. This is why fish meal and the like are fed to dairy cattle in confinement, in this country. Animal proteins are considered to be bypass proteins and digested in the intestinal track. Forage are broken down and digested initially by bacteria in the rumen, and these bacteria will digest most vegetable protein up to 12% the remainder is given off as a gas


I'm confused by this, Hay wilson. Most protein going into the animal is either snarffed up by microbes in the rumen - to make more microbes and what's considered to be microbial protein OR utilized by the animal for maintenance, growth, lactation... Bypass proteins, like fishmeal, gluten meal, etc are considered high quality (they are very close in amino acid profile to the animal's amino acid needs) while microbial protein is considered lower quality protein. The idea w/ bypass protein is to try and get the high quality protein through the rumen w/o the microbes snarffing it up and making microbial protein out if it Some protein in plant material is considered unavailable, although usually a small increment, because it is bound up with the lignin in the cell wall. You can inadvertantly increase this amount of "bound" protein by allowing heating of your forage and the protein complexes w/ the carbs and the protein becomes less available. If I remember right, that's the browning reaction.

I'm not trying to be a knothead - just adding to the conversation. Keep it up. 
.


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## hay wilson in TX

dugswife.

If you mean how much protein will hay loose n storage, the short answer is very little, if stored in a dark dry place.

we bought some 2007 hay last month that was 5 th place in the state fair in 07....but after a year is it so low in protein that it's not any good any more? We were told hay that was several years old was still good as long as it had been kept in a barn. We buy both round and square bales.
A couple of points. I am not so sure there was been a State Hay show in Texas in 07. I also doubt very seriously if they awarded down to 5 th place at any hay show Texas. To be safe ask Brian Cummins, county agent in Van Zandt County, (Canton) [email protected] or Don Dorsett [email protected]. Don is the man who has conducted the hay show for many years.

As for hay holding it's feed value, if stored in a dry barn it will keep it's protein level for at least 17 years. At a State hay show held at Beaumont, TX many years ago there was a bale exhibited that still had over 10% CP after being in the back of a hay loft for at least 17 years.

bunchgrass1

First point is so very true. Any time a grass is put under stress it will attempt to go to seed, and put all it's resources into the seed.

Second point is also very true. In a hay show ammoniated hay is referred to as chicken house hay. Where the hay picks up ammonia from the manure. This was mostly when the only test run on hay down here was for protein. Then the chemistry would release ammonium from the hay and that was measured. The CP = 6.25 X % N still works.

Third point is close. 
Quote:
No matter with 800 lbs/A of nitrogen and a 2 week harvest interval you can expect 20% CP
Here, at most universities, they use a standard 28 day harvest interval. This eliminates one variable for their experimental work

.

Looking at the previous graph(s) and commentary about %CP vs harvest interval - there is always going to be a tradeoff between quality and quantity harvested. Surely one can get 20% CP from a given acre but how many pounds of CP did you harvest from that acre? Likely, not too much. On the flip side you can get great quantities of "lumber" quality hay if you wait long enough. Unfortunately, that is one reason that hay shows/competitions have fallen off - guys are just about growing competition hay in the greenhouse. Not realistic 

20% CP is 3.2% N. which is 64 lbs N/Ton. I believe at TAMU they harvested 8 tons using their 28 day harvest interval. So that is 512 lbs of Nitrogen that year. 
The problem is they fertilized P & K as well as the others "according to Soil Test" and mo mention of the ratio of N/S, N/P, N/K. N/Mg, or N/Ca. In English they did not look at the ratio of nitrogen compared to the other essential fertility elements. 
It is my contention that if they had applied enough nitrogen for 10-12 tons of 12% protein hay using the 42 day harvest interval they would have recovered 500 to 600 lbs of nitrogen, as long as the hay crop was taking up enough of all the other elements. 
Their soil may not have enough clay to retain enough nitrogen for each 3 to 4 ton cutting of hay. They are getting into the sandy soils and they may need to fertilize at least two times maybe three times to get that yield on each cutting. ith a 42 day harvest interval. 
*HERE* with our heavy Texas Blackland Clay, on a lark, I applied 1230 lbs/A of N on a small hay field. *HERE* that nitrogen was still present and producing hay 7 years later. If I had put as much potash down the yield would have been considerably larger, AND the nitrogen would have persisted fewer years.

Last point/question
Cattle, as well as sheep, goats and other ruminants, are designed to consume forages. This all works fine until we started breeding milk factories for cows. Then the limitations of a ruminant comes to the forefront. It is then that the dairy nutritionist introduce proteins in the feed that are not digested in the rumen but in the intestines. 
Because a horse, also a forage eater, has a different adaptation to their nutrition, they digest forages differently than a cow. A horse can not be fed straw, molasses and chemical urea while a cow can. 
Most hay will sweat, allowing extra moisture to escape. If this sweat brings the micro moisture levels up to where oxidation occurs we have what is referred to as tobacco hay. Smells just like tobacco and has a nice brown color. In this case cattle relish the feed but some of the feed value has been lost in the oxidation process.

dugswife I hope this is illuminating.

bunchgrass1 I hope I have added to and expanded your very valid points.

dugswife each winter in Waco, TX there is a big equipment show and educational sessions. It should be roughly the first week of February for 2010. It will be held at the Heart of Texas Fair Grounds. 
There are any number of field days and educational programs. You might communicate with Brian or your County Extension Agent to find out the dates and locations. 
We also have an Extension Forage Specialest at the Overton Experimant Station named Vannesa Corriher, [email protected]


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## johndeerefarmer

I keep good records myself:

With 75 lbs of actual N: At 5 to 6 weeks I get 13- 15% (TDN= 58-60%)
At 4-5 weeks, it runs 17-19 % (TDN = 60-62)
At 7 weeks i can get 10% on either johnson grass or coastal bermuda

I have been baling coastal for over 20 years and have not ever had a problem with losing leaves on coastal. I use a side delivery rake and John Deere round balers

Even with nitrogen as high as it has been the last few years, its still a whole lot cheaper for me to raise hay with high protein levels than pay $300 ton for 20% range cubes


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## rank

hay wilson in TX said:


> Here in Central Texas, reasonably close to I-35 we will usually start baling at 11 AM & have to be finished by 1 PM seldom later than 2 PM. The solution is to do our baling at night, when we can have 4 sometimes 5 hours to bale between too dry and too damp.
> In theory with 15 strokes per bale, that is roughly 4 bales a minute or 240 bales an hour. This says to plan to bale 500 to 600 bales a day. *That says for a 2 ton/A yield we are limited to roughly 8 acres for each baler that will be in the field, during the day.*


Always interesting to see how other folks do things. Couple of questions:
1. So it takes approx a day and a half to bale enough for a semi trailer load?
2. How many balers do you have?
3. How much product (weight) do you sell in a year?

thanks


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## hay wilson in TX

I have not loaded out a simi load of square bales in a long time. 
My hay is mostly sold by the pick up truck or 16 ft tandem trailer, loads and they seldom go more than 20 miles. 
My market is between the off a semi truck and the feed store. Hay sells by the bale and I get more than I would have to pay off a semi but less than what a feed store needs to stay open. 
I usually put up 400 to 500 tons of hay. This goes into a pole barn with a stack wagon, and hand loaded onto a PU.

Mine is a niche that works, as long as the word does not get out and everyone starts doing the same.

If this were corn & it were sold at the terminal and you get whole sale value. Than again if we sell in a 50 lb sack we get a retail price. My price is much like, a PU load direct from the combine on the turn row. Not World price and not retail price.


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## rank

OK I see. You obviously take great care of your leaves and I was thinking you must have lots and lots of equipment and manpower to operate in such small and specific windows. Thanks fro the clarification.


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## Production Acres

we try and test all our hay here and have not seen very many high rfv values on bermuda, what is the range for good quality bermuda on rfv.


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## hay wilson in TX

Feno. 
Yes most bermudagrass here is planted using the Bermuda King. We do not have the labor to be able to sprig in the roots by hand, except for very small plots.

There are some bermudagrass types that we cut the green tops and stuff the joints into the ground. Alicia and Tifton 85 come to mind.

Then there are now coming along varieties that can be seeded, because their seeds are viable. 
In the good old days a farmer would feed sheep a grain mix with bermudagrass seed mixed in with the grain. The next day the sheep would distribute the seed in there droppings.


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## hay wilson in TX

It has been a good while since I have looked at RFV on bermudagrass hay. Here no one considers RFV so I quit testing for it. Here my maybe half of my customers consider protein, and of these maybe a fourth look at TDN. So the hay testing I use includes a lot of minerals. My latest has a as submitted 12.6% CP & 57.2% TDN plus S, P, K, Mg, Ca, Na in % & Fe, Mn, Cu, & Zn in ppm. I use the Dry matter CP 14.6 % to compute the N%. They include ADF which is used in computing TDN as well as several computed net energy percentages.

You might contact your State Forage Extension Specialist Gary Bates. He is originally from South Louisiana and has an accent you can cut with a knife. I have known him for maybe 20 years and he is very knowledgeable.


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## Tamara in TN

> hay wilson in TX said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might contact your State Forage Extension Specialist Gary Bates. He is originally from South Louisiana and has an accent you can cut with a knife. I have known him for maybe 20 years and he is very knowledgeable.
Click to expand...

and quite the cutie besides









Tamara in TN


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## vhaby

Feno,

I'm a bit late getting in on this excellent haying discussion. My question; how do you make hay among the termite mounds I've seen in the areas near Brasilia?


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## geiselbreth

if we did this in central ms. our hay would mold we have to ted twice a day for 3 days atleast then cook in in a microwave to check moisture then maybe start baling at 1 or 2 pm


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## geiselbreth

i use 50 lbs of sulfur per acre here to keep it green color sells lol


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## hay wilson in TX

It has been educational to review the thread. 
Things have changed for us slightly. We are in the midst of a real maybe record shattering drought which changes ones perspective. 
This year I have cut for yield rather than quality. I shot for 10% CP and maximum yield. When this bermudagrass reaches about 18 to 20 inches in length the lower leaves start to fall off and yield stabilizes.

The market was for round bales, with a token square bale market. I would bale the same field(s) with a RBer and square baler both starting at 65% relative humidity, (Measured down at the windrow) and finish within 5 minutes of the other. Lesson learned was a round bale will test 1-2 percent CP lower than the square baler will. This is due to the RBer slinging leaves off the bale during baling while a square baler will drop leaves into the bale. I can only guess how much total weight of hay is lost with a round baler. And this was finishing well before the humidity was too low and leaf shattering became excessive (!).

This year we went 6 weeks with the humidity never being high enough to bale, day or night. No matter with out irrigation we did not have hay to bale in August or September.

For the record bermudagrass hay will shatter more leaves than alfalfa. After baling +/- 600 bales I will have more leaves to blow off the baler with bermudagrass than alfalfa. A bale of bermudagrass stems looks good to the casual buyer while alfalfa looks like a bundle of green sticks. On my barn floor I have a lot more leaves where the bermudagrass is stored than where the alfalfa is stored.

Hay Prices. 
I was taught that we are expected to shear a sheep every year but if we ever skin that sheep it never comes back again.

May 2012 be a banner year for all


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## mlappin

hay wilson in TX said:


> I was taught that we are expected to shear a sheep every year but if we ever skin that sheep it never comes back again.


That's literally what happened here, years of high hay prices forced a lot of folks to cut back on the number of horse they have or they got rid of them altogether, horse hay market is abysmal. All the extra hay from that market flooded the others and none of it's worth much. This winter might be an exception but I can't see it staying up at all unless a lot more hay acres are taken out in our area which brings us right back to high hay prices and that leads to people getting rid of their critters. If row crops stay up nest year and the year after as well, fertilizer prices will get high enough it won't justify wasting (even more) expensive fertilizer on cheap hay.


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