# What to mix with Red Clover?



## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

I have 30 ac of Red Clover that I planted, last Feb., on top of Wheat. My rotation was set up for Corn next Spring. I am having second thoughts and am thinking of leaving the Clover through next year and trying to get a crop of seed.

The question is; What to plant with the existing Clover to enhance the value of the first cutting hay? Second cut should be to combine, the seed, if I'm lucky.

One option would be to frost seed some Timothy sometime in Feb and maybe throw some Oats in with it. A mix of Tim, Oats and Clover should make some pretty good hay even for Horses. I have never tried frost seeding anything other than Alfalfa or Clover.

Another thought is to drill the Timothy and Oats as soon as the ground is solid enough to get on it, usually sometime in April. Problem with this option is the Clover will have such a head start, I don't know if the grasses will have a chance.

I know I could always leave it as straight Clover, but straight Clover just don't sell all that well here (East Central Missouri) I would like to square bale most of it, if the weather will allow.

Please give your thoughts.

Thank you,
Sam


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## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

Mix some 2,4-D in with it and get rid of it.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I got a laugh out of barrys remark but he may be on to something. What about getting a drill and drill some oats in it A.S.A.P . That should make a reral good first cutting, I was kinda thinkin of killing it off and drilling beans like you would after wheat. Im just not a big fan of clover but thats my opinon. I like clover in my pasture fields but thats it, It just seems like you could put something else their that would produce more tons per acre in the long run. Just my 2 cents
THOMAS


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

> What about getting a drill and drill some oats in it A.S.A.P


With the 5" or more rain, this past week, I doubt that I will be able to get on the field anytime soon. Have you, or anyone else, had any luck with frost seeding Oats? No one, around here (East Central Missouri) plants Oats in the fall, almost always in March or April.

I understand that some people have a prejudice against Red Clover. I am mainly trying to get a crop of Clover seed, which can be a pretty good cash crop, if you catch it right. Other alternative is to go back with Corn.

Nutritionally, Clover is not that far behind Alfalfa and rarely do I see a problem with the Horses Slobbering. I think it is very under rated as a feed. Evidently not many people share that opinion.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

There is absolutley nothing wrong with clover hay. Red clover lost popularity to alfalfa because it does not have stand longevity, red clover is a biannual at best, harder to dry, but generally out yields alfalfa on the seeding year. I plant annual ryegrass with red clover. Using timothy is not a good choice because timothy takes more then a year to get established well. Annual tetraploid ryegrass is aggressive for interseeding, and maintains maturity well and rivals legumes in protein and carbs. Oats will decrease your quality and possibly make the red clover even harder to dry, and is hard to get put up green, at least in my climate it always bleeches out and looks about like straw, not a very marketable hay. I have fed pleanty of red clover hay to horses, never had a problem, with a good grass mix you will be able to market it.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

Thanks Hayray, I have had good luck with Red Clover in the past and several of my Customers ask for it for their Horses. I really never intended to have it in for more than 1 year. I put it in just to help build up N for Corn and save on a little Fert. $'s.

I had not thought of Rye. There is not much of it grown around here, so I'm not sure how it will market. Whatever I put in will require it being seeded this winter or early spring. The rain has not let up and most of the guys haven't even finished cutting Beans. The Clover gets an early start, so the companion will certainly have to be agressive.

You are right about the oats being hard to dry and looking like straw, but I have been able to sell it okay.
Sam


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Make sure that we are on the same page - ryegrass vs. rye (annual grain)


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

Is there a particular variety?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

sedurbin said:


> Is there a particular variety?


I use Lonestar forage type annual ryegrass to thicken up thining alfalfa for 1 yr if I want it lomger I will use a mix of annual ryegrass/orchard.

As far as saving the red clover for seed the ryegrass would also be going to seed and maybe a problem harvesting.And the ann ryegrass seed would be on the ground and come back next yr.


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## Ridgerunner (Jul 10, 2009)

I recommend drilling in some wheat if you can get in the field. I am in Western Kentucky and have a similar arrangement. I do not plan to harvest the seed, but I have a heavy stand of red clover that I drilled in a year ago with some orchard grass and wheat. The orchard grass is coming along very slowly. The wheat lets me get an early cutting in early may.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

I can't remember the type of annual ryegrass I had, I think it was Zenox or somethign from Seed Solutions. One thing about incorporating wheat into a hay mix is that wheat occassionally has a ergot that is poisonouis and can kill horses. I know a guy who lost 7 horses in one day feeding wheat hay. I have seen guys feed it with no negative effects, but if you are selling the hay I would not use wheat.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

I know that Wheat can make good hay, but most folks around here just don't buy it for Horses. The same for straight Clover. If I can find something that will make a nice looking mix, with the Clover, I'll be able to get some good tonnage on the first cut and then let it go to seed.

Timothy makes a good companion to Clover because they would be ready to cut at about the same time (mid June around here), but I doubt that there would be much Tim. in the first year. I have heard of Tim/Clov making 5 ton/ac on the first cut. That kind of yield sounds good, but sure is hard to handle.

The Rye Grass sounds interesting as this may be the only year for this field; I may put it back in Corn next year.

With the Fertilizer prices being high, there was a lot of Red Clover planted to get the gain on Nitrogen.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

I also like the annual ryegrass idea and thought of that when I saw your post title. Up here we would have plant it in the spring as the winter kills it. Not sure if you could plant it over winter--I'd stick to the spring.

The grass will use up some of the N so if you want the clover seed crop with grass in it and then go to corn you'll have less N available.

Also annual ryegrass grows very quickly and it may head out before you can get the clover off and then your hay quality drops quickly as the ryegrass heads out. The key is matching the maturity of your established clover to the maturity of the ryegrass interseeded. Do you know the variety of red clover that's planted?


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

I believe it is Cardinal medium Red Clover. The clover is generally cut around the first or second week of June. If you cut it any sooner it will take more than a week to dry.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

The Italian ryegrass heads out early while the annual varieties delay heading, often to the second or late season. I have gone in the spring and broadcasted over the top of fall planted legume plantings like red clover and birdsfoot trefoil and it grew aggressively.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

hayray said:


> The Italian ryegrass heads out early while the annual varieties delay heading, often to the second or late season. I have gone in the spring and broadcasted over the top of fall planted legume plantings like red clover and birdsfoot trefoil and it grew aggressively.


hayray,I believe you have them turned around.

Annual ryegrass will seed out seeding yr.

Italian ryegrass is a biannual and not supposed to seed out until second yr.
Tried Italion 1 yr for a cover crop on 1/2 a field and didn't get near the tonnage compared to the annual.Just my 1 yr exp with Italian.

As a biannual Italian may come back 2nd yr from roots but HERE it will usually winter kill.

Maybe a better option for Sedurbin.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

Sedurbin,

If you're interested in the ryegrass the Barenbrug rep's number is 1-319-472-5569.


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## prairie (Jun 20, 2008)

I am a Barenbrug distributor and retailer, located in NE Nebraska. We serve the northern/central plains, and western midwest regions.

I am familiar with many of the other Barenbrug distributors and larger dealers.

A good contact for your Barenbrug seed needs would be :

David Otte
Green Valley Seed, Inc.
PO Box 35
Kahoka MO 63445
800-748-7943

David will have a good handle on what will work best for you and your area. Like me, he is a grass farmer and cattleman that also sells seed.

Brad
Prairie States Seed
Wausa NE


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