# Mounted Mower Combos



## hvy 1ton (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm trying to figure out what the power requirements for a 2 mower conditioner combo. I'm looking at the Poettinger 306F ED/CRW and 305 ED/CRW. At first i figured you just add up the horsepower requirements, but the 7800 only requires 135hp. Looking over it over again, the specs are probably only for the back 2 mowers, with the front mower bringing the total power requirement up to 205hp. If you can't tell, this whole thing is giving me a headache.


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

nice 30 year sticker.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

from the krone website, the 2 back mowers with a front mower take a minimum of 170 hp - thought i heard a kuhn salesman tell me once that he wanted 225 hp. 
we run a krone big M with a 30' cut and it is 300hp - But the newer Krone big M's are 360hp
we absolutely love the big M and used ones can be had for 70-100K


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## chadl (Mar 23, 2009)

do they hold up good


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

hvy 1ton, depends, how fast do you want to go? A 7920/7930 @ 170/180 PTO Hp respectively can do 3 mowers, but I doubt you'll get over 10mph in alfalfa.

Viewing a thread - Butterfly Mower demo pics

I run a SP discbine now, but if I go the 3-mower route, it'll likely be a Big M.


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## hvy 1ton (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm talking about just running one front mower and one back mower for a 18ft cut. My dad ran hesston swathers until i was a little kid. He got tired of running a swather through the 30mi radius of our farms/rental ground so we went cut back on ground and went to pull hydroswing swathers. Traded in the sickle bar for a JD935 side pull that i truly hate running, especially after running my cousins 15' hydroswing. I live next to and at this point practically in a hippie college town. The road i have to use is normally packed with bicycles and idiots going out to the lake. You don't know frustration until you get stuck behind a bicycles going 10mph and you top out at 15mph.

The real simple-read cheapest- solution would be to pick up a 11'6" hydroswing, but finding one that is 540 is harder than you would think. The problem is, it's only a minimum increase in capacity. Plus i'm still at 15mph with the bicylces and yahoos.

Second choice is a 15' Self Propelled. Then i have to either take the header off all the time or deal with the bicycles and yahoos at 15mph with another 3.5' tacked on the end.

The third choice is a front/rear combo. Keeps me under 10' wide and cuts wider than the SP. The tractor would have a 25mph or 31mph plus with a 135-150hp tractor I'd be able to run a big baler. One of my long term goals is to get rid of the round baler, so thats a plus. The main problem will be cost, and i'm gonna need to expand back to where we were 15-20 years ago to make it pencil out. Looking at 72K for a MT565B with front hitch/pto then add a loader, and both mowers which i haven't priced in four years so who knows where there at now. The thing that i really like about the Poettinger mowers is you can switch from tines to rollers to swath formers.
Anybody have any input on laforge 3pt/pto kits and whether they will work with any of the suspension/31mph axles?


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

What about a mid pivot on the sideways transport cart? If you have enough room to park the thing, I think it would be slick in your situation - I think you can find them that they cut around 16ft??? Not sure if NH makes an 18 or not. I'd much rather cut with one of them, vs the push/pull combo.

Rodney


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## hvy 1ton (Aug 22, 2008)

Rodney R said:


> What about a mid pivot on the sideways transport cart? If you have enough room to park the thing, I think it would be slick in your situation - I think you can find them that they cut around 16ft??? Not sure if NH makes an 18 or not. I'd much rather cut with one of them, vs the push/pull combo.
> 
> Rodney


Those carts have always scared me. It's probably completely unfounded, but i'd rather not mess with them. The biggest hydroswing disc mower i know of besides the Poettinger T8(3 3m decks) is 15 something. A problem I have with the big mowers the windrow only be 8' max when my 9'9" throws a 6' windrow. Also, I don't think my 14 wheel rake will pick up 2 16's or 3 11'6s. It should do 2 14's. Why would you want to run a hydroswing over a push/pull setup? I've only run sidepulls and hydroswings which is why i started the thread.

I called my cousin Friday afternoon and he was told 7hp/ft was good but 8hp/ft was better. So busting out the super-duper-nerd calculator: 11.5' 80-92hp 17' 119-136hp 20' 140-160hp and just for kicks 27' 190-218hp. I don't think these numbers scale up too well; it seems that the bigger you go the closer to 8hp/ft the bottom end should be. At 27' 205hp would be 7.5hp/ft and 225hp 8.25hp/ft.

Using the Poettinger specs as guidlines: 9.75' 7.2ac/hr 11.5 8.5ac/hr 17' 12.8ac/hr 20' 14.8ac/hr. In six hours that gets me 43.6ac 51ac 76.8ac 88.8ac. That is increases of 16% 76% 103% respectively. You'd think that getting out of college for the summer would make me do less math.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

Biggest "normal" center-pivot discbine is 16' even, and is a JD956, and I believe MacDon also offers a 16' exactly, but not sure on the tow-cart for the MacDon.

Biggest non-normal center-pivot pull-type discbine is the Pottinger T8 like you mentioned, second being the Krone/Taarup that is a 20'4" flex mower that can either drop a full 20' swath, two 10' swaths, or group 40' together. It turns sideways like for a cart, but uses its own wheels.









Krone 6210 CV - Google Image Search

YouTube - Krone Easy Cut 6210 CV + MTX 155 und Fendt Vario 716 + AMT 5000 CV

Like you, I'd prefer the mounted mowers, or the Krone 20' machine, because of the combination of ideal cutting width, transport width, swath width, and better contour over uneven ground (only a 9'/10' head). Plus I think it'd just be nicer to cut with.

My only concern is you're trying to use one tractor for too many jobs. Cutting, baling, loading... maybe raking....? Tried doing that in 2007 with our 7630, wasn't as bad in dry hay, but tried using it during silage time, that tractor was cutting in the morning (12' Hesston center pivot), baling in the afternoon (Hesston 3x4 baler), loading trucks all night). Tractor was running over 20 hours a day for a week, for the most part with just one operator.

That was nuts, so we rented a Fendt 716 for 3 months to help finish off, and then in 2008 got a dedicated baling tractor, and later a SP discbine. Before we got the SP discbine, we seriously contemplated the mounted route, but figured it would be too nuts to try cutting/raking/loading with the one tractor, especially taking the loader on and off for cutting. The other thing is transport. Sure, tractor moves faster from field to field, but you'll be making more trips, running back and forth with mowers, then rake (can be done with pick-up), pick up loader from last field and bring it and baler. Drop loader and baler, grab mowers, on to the next field.

I'd also highly recommend that if you can afford it, get a bigger tractor (next frame size up, MT600, etc, especially if you're going to be running a big baler on it). Good choice though, the AGCO (Challenger/AGCO/Massey/Fendt) with CVT are probably the best machines for you, if dealer support is there.

I haven't actually owned one, but the Laforge seem the best to me, way better than the Zuidburg or w/e. I'm sure they work with with all brands of suspension, but I know for sure they work with 7030 31mph tractors.

A 14-wheel rake would pick up 2 16s, I use a 12-wheel for doing 2 * 15s, but my swaths are laid right to 8' wide. Also used the 12-wheel for doing 3 * 12s, 3 * 9s, could do 4 if the swaths were narrow, and can just barely do 3 * narrow-swath 14's.

Not sure on your math for the acres, how fast are you planning on cutting?

acres/hour = [speed(mph)] x [width(feet)] / 8.25 or 8.5 to be closer to realistic

Most I ever did was 22acres/hour with the 12 pull-type, and 25/hour with the new SP discbine (15').

Just some thoughts,
take care,
-Josh


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## hvy 1ton (Aug 22, 2008)

JoshA said:


> Biggest "normal" center-pivot discbine is 16' even, and is a JD956, and I believe MacDon also offers a 16' exactly, but not sure on the tow-cart for the MacDon.
> 
> Biggest non-normal center-pivot pull-type discbine is the Pottinger T8 like you mentioned, second being the Krone/Taarup that is a 20'4" flex mower that can either drop a full 20' swath, two 10' swaths, or group 40' together. It turns sideways like for a cart, but uses its own wheels.
> 
> ...


Yeah as much as i'd like to do it all with one tractor, i know it would be nuts. Especially since there are 2-3 of us that can be working. I'd either sell the 2755 or the 6400







and keep the other one for a raking and loader tractor. In a perfect world i'd replace the 2755 and the 6400 with a MT445 and a MT565, but it isn't gonna happen all at once. I know about the dealer support issue, that's why i'm only looking at MT's and Deere's. The Deere, Case, and MF dealers in town are all a joke, in ascending order of jokeness. Actually that depends on if you want to buy something besides a Deere lawn mower. I either go to Baldwin for deere or Topeka for cat/challenger.

The way i saw moving everything was take the big tractor and mowers to the area and start cutting. The other guy pulls the baler and goes back for the rake. As long as were not going from one side of our area to the other it shouldn't be more than a couple of hours. If we're in a real hurry my little brother could pick up the rake with a truck and take the slow ride to nowhere. The mower tractor's loader presents a challenge i hadn't really thought out too well, but i wasn't planing on using the loader during the summer too much. If we really get in a bind, the 260 works better than a PS loader tractor anyway. At some point i'm gonna replace the 260 with JD244/304 sized wheel loader, so it can go out in the fields and lift twice what a tractor can. I gotta make some money first.

I've pretty much resigned myself to not getting a big baler for at least 2-3yrs so i'm not gonna worry about that too much right now. When i get to that point I'll get a 205-225hp with 3 mowers, a big rotary rake, and a big baler. And as far as the rake, i stuck my foot in my mouth i have a 12 wheel, 14 if you count the kickers. I think its a JD714, it screws me up a lot.

I got the numbers for acres/hr by using the number Poettinger had as guidelines. I know my mower can do better than 7.2ac/hr, but they rate their 10' side mower at 8.5. I forgot how exactly i came up with 7.2, but i used the 8.5 number as a base. As for speeds i run 8-12mph in alfalfa, but wouldn't mind running a little slower and cutting more, i have hit my head on the roof when i didn't have my seatbelt on. Using your formula 8mph 9.2/10.2/16 10mph 11.5/13.5/20 for 9'9"/11'6"/17'. If i could do 20ac/hr consistently i'd have one of my alfalfa fields done in 3hrs. Man, you gotta be running 15-16mph to get 22ac/hr out of a 12 footer I'd die if i tried that in most of our fields.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Maybe I'm thinking that it would be worse than it really is, but I hate the idea of trying to watch machines running on either end of the tractor. Not only that, but I've seen the front/rear combo things on a couple of demos, and they looked like crap to me. I just don't like them. One other thing, the rear mower, would it be mounted, or PT?

The foreign midpivots that flex and or make 2 windrows..... if you could transport them sideways, I think they'd work well for you. That one that Josh mentioned would be well worth investigating.

Rodney


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## hvy 1ton (Aug 22, 2008)

Rodney R said:


> Maybe I'm thinking that it would be worse than it really is, but I hate the idea of trying to watch machines running on either end of the tractor. Not only that, but I've seen the front/rear combo things on a couple of demos, and they looked like crap to me. I just don't like them. One other thing, the rear mower, would it be mounted, or PT?
> 
> The foreign midpivots that flex and or make 2 windrows..... if you could transport them sideways, I think they'd work well for you. That one that Josh mentioned would be well worth investigating.
> 
> Rodney


I don't see having to watch both mowers as a problem, I'll only have to really watch one or the other. At one point or another i thought about running a hyrdroswing on the back so that the front mower would always be on outside edge, but then i loose some of the mobility i'm looking for. On long runs i'm not looking back at the mower more than 30% of the time anyway. Plus, when opening a field I can choose which mower is against the fence. I can't really decide which would be better without trying it out.

The only real downside i see, is what josh said about losing easy use of the tractor's loader. To use the tractor as a loader i have to drop the mowers, go get the loader where ever it may be, and hook it back up. I think i'll be able to deal with that by using the 260 and the small tractor.


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## GPhillips (Oct 11, 2008)

I have been thinking about going in the same direction as hvy 1ton, looking at running front and rear mounted Kuhn mowers. We are purely grass hay so I have been looking at mowers without conditioners. Thinking I could get by with a 150 HP MFWD tractor, as we already have a tractor with a front end loader.


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## Krone (May 27, 2009)

HP requirements can vary of course with terrain, but here are some facts that may help you determine what you need.

Triple Combination (28' cut) with NO CONDITIONER:
Front Mower - EC-32
Rear Mowers - EC-9140
Minimum Tractor HP = 130 HP

Triple Combination (28' cut) with adjustable Steel V-tine Conditioner:
Front Mower - EC-32CV
Rear Mowers - EC-9140CV also available as a merger EC-9140CVM
Minimum Tractor HP = 200 HP

Now if you are going to go with a single mower on the front and a single mower on the rear, there a number of combinations to consider but a "general" rule of thumb would be 10 hp per foot of cut. That may or may not be adequate if your cutting up and down mountains. Front mounted machines add another twist to the hp calculation due to the weight on the front.

The best thing to do to help you decide is to contact a Krone dealer and have them and a Krone representative come out and see what you are trying to do. Our representative can give you a recommendation.

Somebody did mention the EC-6210CV in an earlier post. This is a 20'6" center pivot mower with an adjustable Steel V-tine conditioner. This mower has two cutterbars that allow flexibilty across the 20+ feet and it hydraulically folds to a narrow 10' transport width without an additional cart.


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