# New round baler



## deadmoose

I am looking at buying a new economical 4*5 round baler. Brand new appeals for financing offers as well as not wanting someone else's problem. If I did not go new, I would be looking at about a $5k budget. My tractor has 64 PTO HP. Kubota m7040. I am looking to bale about 45 acres to start. I would like to stay under $25k with net.

I see as options:

NH rollbelt 450

Massey 1745

Vermeer Rebel 5420

Opinions on which to buy? Also how much should I expect to pay? I have gotten quotes on NH and Vermeer and they seemed high. That was last year via email and I never sat down and talked seriously with the salesman.


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## FarmerCline

I vote Vermeer. It is a well built sturdy machine. To me the net wrap system looked to be easier to load than the NH. It is an option to get the bale expert monitor that has the bale shape indicators like all the other Vermeer balers use. I would think you could get it for 20k or less but I'm not sure.


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## rjmoses

IMO, New Holland first, Vermeer second. New Holland has (at least in this area) the best reputation for hay equipment.

But, also consider the dealership: What other people in your area say about each dealer and its service. Then consider how close they are: When you have hay on the ground and something breaks (and it only breaks when you have hay on the ground), you need to be able to get parts and service ASAP.

Ralph


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## hillside hay

I vote the NH as well. But that's what I have for dealers in the area. My cousins run JD and Vermeer but they had issues with a thrower on a 320 that I think kind of sparked a blood feud between them and NH. The price I was quoted seemed reasonable at 17900 of course that was absolutely bare bones.


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## Hayman1

Moose- just went through this decision process and was looking hard at the 450. Used to be diehard NH but then got bit by the Krone snake- still won't part with my NH570 SB. That said, to get the 450 with ramp and net, I was quoted 26K so I had to go another direction. If I was in the rb business big time I would not have hesitated to go to the JD 458 or 459 SS. But the basic 459 with equine discount was quoted at 33+. Settled on a really good deal on a JD-457SS with 5K rolls through it and excellent dealer support for 16.5. It should make rolls at my annual rate until I don't care anymore. Just don't think you can go wrong with the right JD or NH low use baler if you get it with good dealer support. In the end, I decided that the heavier construction of the SS was better for me even though i will only use it on dry grass hay. Everything is cover edge wrapped for me.

good luck on your search. Rick


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## Grateful11

As I've said before the Vermeer Rebel looks great and I've seen it run but there's no Bale Shape Indicators, bad decision on Vermeers part IMO. I can't say if the others have them or not but we got a price on the Massey 1745 with net wrap and ramps of I think $22,000 last Summer.

Check out this price, it's a 2012 but it's new, supposedly there were some bugs that needed working out on the first 450's:

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7444043


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## carcajou

Hayman1 said:


> Moose- just went through this decision process and was looking hard at the 450. Used to be diehard NH but then got bit by the Krone snake- still won't part with my NH570 SB. That said, to get the 450 with ramp and net, I was quoted 26K so I had to go another direction. If I was in the rb business big time I would not have hesitated to go to the JD 458 or 459 SS. But the basic 459 with equine discount was quoted at 33+. Settled on a really good deal on a JD-457SS with 5K rolls through it and excellent dealer support for 16.5. It should make rolls at my annual rate until I don't care anymore. Just don't think you can go wrong with the right JD or NH low use baler if you get it with good dealer support. In the end, I decided that the heavier construction of the SS was better for me even though i will only use it on dry grass hay. Everything is cover edge wrapped for me.
> 
> good luck on your search. Rick


what is an equine discount, never heard of it?


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## hog987

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/21278-new-holland-roll-belt-450-utility/page-2

Another forum on the subject.


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## Tim/South

I bought aVermeer 504 M Classic two years ago. Vermeer has a good reputation here, as well as Deere.

I went with the Vermeer because of the drum that starts the bale and carries the weight of the bale. The belts did that chore on the other balers I looked at.

You should be able to bargan with any dealer right now. It is their off season and not a lot of equipment is moving.

I got $1,500 off for buying this time of year. (One dealer told me it would only be $750).

I got another $1,500 off because they were changing the M Classic to an N.

Got another "cash back" discount thrown in.

I visited 3 dealers and told them I was buying a baler and did not have the time to nickel and dime. Give me your best price and I am going with that dealer.

One dealer was way high, the other two were with in $50. The one with the best price also threw in hyd. pick up and got my business.

You should be able to get a new 5420 Rebel with bale shape indicator (maybe hyd. pick up) for what you have budgeted.

Deere also got right when they saw I was not color blind. I had bought a new tractor from them that fall. They priced a 458 with net and standard pick up (no mega wide) for less than the Vermeer. They knew I was going to buy a baler and cut to the chase.

There are green and yellow balers around here and both do a good job.

I did have someone who thought I bought a yellow baler because I could not afford a green one, said at least I got a green tractor.  I asked if he was racist?


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## Grateful11

When we saw the Rebel demoed the Reps. told us there were no bale shape indicators. They said make correct windrows and it's not problem, I say that's crazy, not every windrow is going to be perfect or correct.

Unless the 2 Reps. that were there didn't know what they were talking about, where is the bale shape indicators on the Rebel series? They said you have to move up to the 504 that even though they can be equipped with their Bale Expert monitor they said the sensors were not on the Rebel to pick up those readings.

I just downloaded the 2014 Vermeer Baler brochure and the chart near the back says there's no bale shape indicators on the Rebel 5420 or 5520.

Without shape indicators how are you going to tell what your bale is going to look like until you dump it?

I really wish they would make this an option on the Rebel, it's nice looking very quiet running baler that's reasonably priced. There's a new 5420 on Tractorhouse with netwrap, ramps and Expert Monitor in VA for $19,900. That's not bad at all. They also have a 504N with netwrap, moisture sensors and silage kit that's a Demo with full warranty for $24K, pretty good deal.


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## 8350HiTech

Grateful11 said:


> Without shape indicators how are you going to tell what your bale is going to look like until you dump it?


Experience.


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## Tim/South

I called my Vermeer dealer to see if the bale indicator was an option. He said it was but that it had to be ordered and was expensive. It would need the sensors, wiring harness and shape monitor added.

He said if the bale shape was added to a Rebel then a person would be better off to move up to the N baler for a little more in money.

On my M Classic the shape indicator seldom moves. I do not move over the rare time it does, just keep baling and it equals out on it's own.

I want to be careful how I say this next part.

When I was baler shopping I saw that Vermeer had three different balers that would make a 4x5 roll of hay.

Their 604 SM which is their commercial baler, the 504 M (now N) and the 5410 Rebel (now the 5420).

The 504 M/N is their commercial baler for those who do not want to make a 6 foot tall bale. It is not the baler their 604 SM is but it is more of a commercial baler than the Rebel.

I asked my Deere dealer if they made a 4x5 commercial baler. He said no. If I wanted a heavier duty baler then I would need the 648 and just make 5 foot rolls. He said the 458 was the entry level baler. Vermeer's Rebel series is their entry level baler.

I was able to buy the 504 M Classic for the same money another dealer wanted for the 5410 Rebel.

My friend traded his 467 Deer baler for a 548. His 467 was a commercial baler and had 22,000 rolls on it. He did not get much trade in value because the count was considered high. The dealer told him to trade sooner and get a better deal.

He asked to trade the 458 at 7,000 rolls and the dealer told him that was a high bale count for that model baler, but not for a 468 which was built to handle much heavier rolls.

Until then both he and I had thought the only difference was the size of the bale chamber.

Both the Vermeer 5420 and the Deere 458 are great balers. They are common here and roll thousands of rolls each year.

They are not considered commercial balers by either company.


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## Dill

What about a KR125? They will do dry and silage. Should be in the range of the budget.

Stay away from 5k used round balers, everyone that we've tried or I've seen others buy are nothing but worn out money pits. Used round bales are beat up way more than a equivalent used square baler. I buy very little new but this is a purchase I'd make new.


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## Dill

Sorry didn't see the 4x5 part on first glance. Ignore the KR125 but the used part still rings true.


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## swmnhay

Grateful11 said:


> Without shape indicators how are you going to tell what your bale is going to look like until you dump it?


I've baled more bales with balers without bale shape indicators then with them.

1.You get a sore neck.Watching the belts to see if they are running straight.

Some balers are harder to see this.The older balers with narrower belts you could see the bale.

But I would never want to go back to running a baler with out them.


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## Hayman1

carcajou said:


> what is an equine discount, never heard of it?


deere has a discount program for cash purchases through United States Equine Federation and other horse (western style) associations, just not sure which ones. Worth somewhere from 16-20% discount. My wife and I are usef members. Ask your deere dealer about it- surely they can tell you which organizations you can join to get it if you are not already afiliated with one of them.


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## Hayman1

Here is a link to the organizations participating in the equine discount program with deere. www.deere.com/en_US/CCE_promo/weg/discounts.html


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## deadmoose

The local dealer is the same for NH and Vermeer. Only have had vermeer for a couple of years though. I found my quote was actually May '12 and both the 450 and 5420 were about $24 finance price. I think a trip in there is called for to let him know I am a serious buyer now.


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## deadmoose

I wonder if I could get a package deal on a new rake? I need one of those as well. I like the Kuhn but given the right deal...


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## deadmoose

I have found that my cows like misshapen bales just as well as cylindrical ones. As I gain experience shape indicator is not a deal breaker for me. Looking at used balers am I correct that netwrap seems to pay on resale? I had some bales custom baled when my machine broke. I love the netwrap for ease of taking off. Plus the other benefits.


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## DSLinc1017

It is defiantly the time to beat up your dealers for discounts. Our local dealer dropped the price of NH 7050 to just over 16k because he needed to get his quarterly numbers up. Needless to say, I opted out of the great deal, as I've decided to go with a slightly used Vermeer 504 equipped with all the bells and whistles. For a much nicer payment plan. With the knowledge that I will probably need to put some maintenance in down the road.


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## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> I wonder if I could get a package deal on a new rake? I need one of those as well. I like the Kuhn but given the right deal...


I would go for a package. That is just good business.

My mindset is they need to work with me to get my money.


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## slowzuki

How about 1,000$ round balers? I bought one this fall as it looked to be in good shape. Its a soft core model, MF 823 - a rebadge of the Gehl 1310. Super clean, well maintained, was owned by an 85 year old retired farmer. He ran it on 70 hp so his bales probably were not tight but less stress on the machine.

I couldn't find many good hardcore balers under about 8000, and there was still a lot of worn out stuff up in the 12,000$ range for desirable models that were fairly new.

Yes I know Gehl isn't gonna sell me parts. The machine shops here know how to replace the roller shafts.



Dill said:


> Stay away from 5k used round balers, everyone that we've tried or I've seen others buy are nothing but worn out money pits.


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## deadmoose

I started with a $2200 baler. I can't afford the repair bill on that one. I had a $500 or so repair at one point. This is a small baler 3*4. So double the bales. Last long story short after I hopefully sell it for $500 as salvage- I am pushing $5 a bale in equipment cost. For half size bales. So more like $10 for a regular bale. I can get it custom baled for that.

Cheaper up front costs me more on the back end. I will not be making major repairs. I would be paying someone else a lot of money to do that.

If I buy a new baler I can make bales for under $6 assigned to the baler. Not counting tax advantages. This is only figuring equipment cost. Others can beat me by a long shot with volume. That's a given.


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## Lewis Ranch

I very seldom look at the monitor anymore, When it beeps I stop and when the door slams im gone again. I spend more time watching the machine for any problems and trying to drive straight down the windrow, if you feed it evenly they will make a good solid bale regardless of what the monitor might or might not say.


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## ontario hay man

I am a nh man. Great people at my dealer. Very fair prices when trading and the best service team around. Maybe your nh dealer has none of those qualities. I dont know. When do you start baling? If you wait til june they have a bonanza sale or whatever they call it. 0% for 6 years on new hay stuff. Thats when I bought my square baler last year. I owned a vermeer for a week it was a POS but it was older. The new ones lok good thats 2nd best in my mind. Vermeer never caught on here yet but go with the better dealer.


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## AndyL

I must say I favor the vermeer over JD. I have both. I may would like the JD better if I liked the dealer. Bringing the JD to the vermeer dealer for them to go through it. As of now the vermeer is making a better bail. As far as monitor. Take it or leave it. You can make a good bale without one. You can make a bad bale with one. Guess that comes from the time before monitors. What I'm saying is I wouldn't let a monitor be the reason for missing a good deal on either baler. Go with the dealer that will do you the best. That makes all the difference.


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## somedevildawg

On my BR 7060 I don't even hook up the monitor anymore.....but I roll but less than 400 bales a year with it...


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## cornshucker

Had a New Holland and liked it. Looked at the Massey when it was a Hesston 745 and a Vermeer 5400 Rebel when we traded the New Holland. Actually I liked the looks of the Hesston better than the Vermeer but judgment was probably influenced by the fact Hesston dealer was 5 miles away and I have a very good relationship with him and the Vermeer dealer 110 miles away. Ending up trading for a Gehl big mistake because Gehl discontinued their Ag equipment 1 year later.( Guess they seen me coming LOL) However other than 2 hydraulic lines it has given zero trouble, just worried about parts later on down the road. As far as the Massey, Vermeer, and New Holland I would not turn around for the difference just get the best deal and above all go with the best dealer.


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## Hayman1

Grateful11 said:


> Check out this price, it's a 2012 but it's new, supposedly there were some bugs that needed working out on the first 450's:


Grateful or Moose- got a clinic on the early problems from the dealer when I looked at the 450. Apparently there was not enough support in the sidewall and a wet wad could push out the sidewall and cause the drive chain to jump the sprocket. the new models have a piece of angle iron to address the problem and it solved the issue. If you get the 2012 model, just go to your NH dealer and look at the new ones and you can add the angle yourself. r


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## deadmoose

From what I gather here: both the 450 and 5420 are quality machines. Make sure 450 isn't older or reinforce it.

I think its time to sit down with the salesman and talk numbers. See how much to toss in a rake at the same time.


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## deadmoose

DSLinc1017 said:


> It is defiantly the time to beat up your dealers for discounts. Our local dealer dropped the price of NH 7050 to just over 16k because he needed to get his quarterly numbers up. Needless to say, I opted out of the great deal, as I've decided to go with a slightly used Vermeer 504 equipped with all the bells and whistles. For a much nicer payment plan. With the knowledge that I will probably need to put some maintenance in down the road.


How new and what kind of rate did you get?


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## DSLinc1017

deadmoose said:


> How new and what kind of rate did you get?


I never persued a definitive rate, but was told CNH standard rate was amount 4. something.


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## ontario hay man

Deadmoose were you meaning brand new or new to you?


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## deadmoose

Brand new. I think financing offer will be much better. Also, I do not want to deal with someone else's problem.


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## ontario hay man

Nh makes a 450 new? Where have I been lol.


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## ontario hay man

Scratch that I just looked it up. Whats the difference between it and the br7060? Up here all we see is the br series. Is the 450 an economy model or something?


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## somedevildawg

ontario hay man said:


> Scratch that I just looked it up. Whats the difference between it and the br7060? Up here all we see is the br series. Is the 450 an economy model or something?


Think it's a smaller machine, one on the lot here, appears to have net tho, not sure....wish my br7060 was net.....damn it, shoulda spent the additional 8k


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## deadmoose

ontario hay man said:


> Scratch that I just looked it up. Whats the difference between it and the br7060? Up here all we see is the br series. Is the 450 an economy model or something?


Economy model.


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## ontario hay man

Definitely go with net. Less watse on the bale and way faster baling. I used to bale 100 per hour behind a 35' combine.


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## Hayman1

According to what I was told, it is an economy model which does not pull as hard or require as much hp to roll. Designed for 100-200 rolls useage per year. Not sure how purchasers in general can justify the price for that accross the board, but that is what I heard. It is really simple in concept (this coming from someone who has never pulled the trigger on a roll himself). The net chamber is very accessable in the front. Told it will make a tight 950-1000 # dry bale.

Now one thing you do need to be aware of is the belt separation. I think there are two less belts on the thing vs the 7040 or whatever NHs mainstream 4 x 5 baler is. I was told this is potentially an issue for rolling second or third cutting but since I sq all that, it would not have been an issue for me.

Lastly, this is the first model in the "new line for future years". Think there will be a 450 SS model then the bigger ones follow in the redesign. Not sure what the time frame on that is.


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## ontario hay man

How many do you intend to bale deadmoose. I dont think you would want that if its intended to bale a couple hundred a year. You should consider resale value to. If you can get custom work maybe it wont hold up. Do you bale corn stalks? How much can you get a br7060 for?


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## Grateful11

In their video the Rep says it's designed for a 1000 bales per year.


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## ontario hay man

Those definitely look alot cheaper. Not a fan of that pickup.


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## hog987

So I have the new holland 450. I have put up up just under 4000 bales with it in 2 years. So I dont know why they say up to 1000 bales a year. Before next year I have to replace the cables in the belts but the belts them selves are holding up fine. The only thing I dont like about the pick up is that the teeth are closer together. So it picks up more rocks. I guess that is one way to get the rocks off the field.

It is a fast baler. I could easily bale more acres/tons of hay in a day than my uncle with his john deere 535. You would not think so since he was making bigger bales and stopped less than me. By the way that was with both of us running twine.


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## deadmoose

ontario hay man said:


> How many do you intend to bale deadmoose. I dont think you would want that if its intended to bale a couple hundred a year. You should consider resale value to. If you can get custom work maybe it wont hold up. Do you bale corn stalks? How much can you get a br7060 for?


Unsure on a 7060. I just talked to salesman today. He is going to quote me for new Nh and vermeer Rebel. With and without wrap. He was out of town so we spoke on the phone and he did in have all specifics handy but he threw in a wrench. He says he has a year old 450 with net. He was thinking about 300 bales through it and it hasn't come in yet. Guy is trading up. Said that he thinks it will be upper teens.

In am looking to bale 3-400 rolls a year for now. No stalks.


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## ontario hay man

Go with net for sure if you store them outside.


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## somedevildawg

ontario hay man said:


> Go with net for sure if you store them outside.


I hear that a lot, heres my take........I think that net does fair a bit better than twine when stored outside, but probably only about 10% better maybe less or maybe more. If you put as many wraps of twine as your baler will let you put the savings are minimal......if you put as few wraps of twine as possible, the savings are much larger. With that being said, the difference in Net vs. twine comes down to savings in the field and that's where the judgement call comes in as to whether its worth the tradeoff. In the field you save time, time saves money, time beats rain, time is valuable in every respect. However is it as valuable as say 8-10k plus the additional cost difference in net cost......I dunno, guess it depends on your situation and what you're doing with the end product. To me, having to resale, net brings more money, is faster and I wish every time I use my baler that it was net, just for the time savings. That money would have come back to me anyway on resale value of machine. My friend has a Deere Net Wrap and its never had twine in the box....I suspect mine wouldn't either...on the other hand, I can hook up to any tractor on the job site with the br7060, no monitor and start baling, that's about as easy as it gets

At the end of the day I wouldn't buy a net because of outside storage, although it is a bit better, I'd buy it for the aforementioned


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## Tim/South

We hauled 90 rolls home last week that had been stored outside. It is the first time I have stored rolls out in the weather.

(I had left them to cure back when the hand held moisture meter said they were high ) The barn filled up so I left them on the fence row until needed.

The rolls were made very tight net wrapped. I expected a good bit of loss. I have bought cheap hay that had been stored outside before. There was minimal damage. The cows begin pulling out of the middle and never check up.

One thing pointed out by my son was one brand of net kept the shape better than another. We had switched to a stiffer brand of net this year and had to finish the roll in the baler.

The softer net flattened out a little on the bottom, thus more surface contact with the ground.

I am always cautious about dropping brands or colors because my ice is not colder than anyone else's just because it is mine.

Just an observation by my son when we loaded the hay.


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## swmnhay

Tim/South said:


> One thing pointed out by my son was one brand of net kept the shape better than another. We had switched to a stiffer brand of net this year and had to finish the roll in the baler.
> The softer net flattened out a little on the bottom, thus more surface contact with the ground.
> I am always cautious about dropping brands or colors because my ice is not colder than anyone else's just because it is mine.
> Just an observation by my son when we loaded the hay.


The funny thing is the net that stretches,the dealer will claim that is better.And people will believe them just because they are brand loyal.They drink the Kool-Aid.


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Unsure on a 7060. I just talked to salesman today. He is going to quote me for new Nh and vermeer Rebel. With and without wrap. He was out of town so we spoke on the phone and he did in have all specifics handy but he threw in a wrench. He says he has a year old 450 with net. He was thinking about 300 bales through it and it hasn't come in yet. Guy is trading up. Said that he thinks it will be upper teens.
> In am looking to bale 3-400 rolls a year for now. No stalks.


I used a NH 648 sileage special and a BR7060 behind my M7040. 
It will do it, but not on big hills. Flat land, you'll be surprised how easily it'll run a BR7060.


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## deadmoose

I got my quotes today. For new with wrap finance prices were 23.6k (5420) and 23.7k (450). One year old used nh 450 $18k. Twine about 5k less on Vermeer and 6K on nh. I can't decide whether the 450,used sounds like a deal or a reason to stay away from NH.


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## ontario hay man

How many bales went through the used one


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## deadmoose

ontario hay man said:


> How many bales went through the used one





deadmoose said:


> He says he has a year old 450 with net. He was thinking about 300 bales through it and it hasn't come in yet. Guy is trading up.


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## ontario hay man

I would buy it if you can get good finance rate.


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## 8350HiTech

Local jockey has a NOS BR7060 for $24something.


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## Bgriffin856

Use mostly twine here even though our NH 640 is a fastnet baler. Twine is much cheaper and if stored outside the net freezes to the hay very difficult to remove and we havent had much loss with twine bales outside.

That 450 looks cheaply built compared to our 640. Haven't looked at new balers....too expensive and fancy for me.

Why would they give up to 1000 bales a year? Why not how many you can make in the life of the baler? Doesn't make sense to me


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## hog987

Bgriffin856 said:


> Use mostly twine here even though our NH 640 is a fastnet baler. Twine is much cheaper and if stored outside the net freezes to the hay very difficult to remove and we havent had much loss with twine bales outside.
> 
> That 450 looks cheaply built compared to our 640. Haven't looked at new balers....too expensive and fancy for me.
> 
> Why would they give up to 1000 bales a year? Why not how many you can make in the life of the baler? Doesn't make sense to me


I just think after 1000 bales they want to sell a more expensive baler to you. I have put just under 4000 bales through my 450 in the last 2 seasons and works just fine doing that many. A fast baler to run. Under good conditions it could pump out 50 900 pound bales an hour using twine tie. And that is not going cheap on the number of wraps either.


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## deadmoose

Hog- any reason you could think of that would make someone want to upgrade after a year ( at a decent size loss)?


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## hog987

If your wanting a basic simple baler than no. If you want something fancy more bells and whistles than yes.

One thing about the 450 is that is does not like really wet hay. I can tell if the hay is getting too tuff cause than it will bring my tractor to its knees. Not a problem if wanting to put up dry hay. If it gets to that point just stop baling. But if someone ever wanted to make baleage than this baler would not work. I have plans in the next few years to up grade to a baler that can do this. But by than I will have over 10000 bales through my machine.


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## deadmoose

That could definitely be a plausible reason after the hay season we had last year.


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Hog- any reason you could think of that would make someone want to upgrade after a year ( at a decent size loss)?


Any reason for not considering 7060 silage special? Heavier built, not much more cost. Maybe one that's a year old to save $?
I like new equipment, but CNH has fantastic used equipment finance rates if you scant pay cash and the new equip warranty is pretty worthless. They don't usually break in first year. 
Probably save 5 grand of a new one.....


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## Hayman1

JD3430 said:


> Any reason for not considering 7060 silage special? Heavier built, not much more cost. Maybe one that's a year old to save $?
> I like new equipment, but CNH has fantastic used equipment finance rates if you scant pay cash and the new equip warranty is pretty worthless. They don't usually break in first year.
> Probably save 5 grand of a new one.....


and, the stupid paint is worn off in all the right places


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## hog987

I dont know if they have different interest rates in the States for used equipnment as Canada. But CNH here right now has horrible interest on used. Right now the 5000 someone would save would be eaten up by intetest and you lose out on the warrienty.


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## deadmoose

I am leery of anything traded in after a year. I don't know of anyone around here upgrading yearly regardless. I really do not want someone else's problem.


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> I am leery of anything traded in after a year. I don't know of anyone around here upgrading yearly regardless. I really do not want someone else's problem.


Well, there are bankruptcies and some who finance for one year. 
You could also tell the dealer you want a dealer warranty for 90 days. I bet they'd do it. 
7060 is a hell of a lot more baler....


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## Gearclash

> I am leery of anything traded in after a year. I don't know of anyone around here upgrading yearly regardless. I really do not want someone else's problem.


 I can understand this, but if you can find something that someone dumped because they couldn't figure it out, then you may get a good buy. I'm pretty sure that is what happened with the baler I own now. It was 3 years old with 1500 bale on, and was a red baler on a green lot. Previous owner clearly didn't have what it took to get it working right, so dumped it. With some minor tuning, it now has over 13K bales with very few problems, just a lot of maintanence because it runs in cornstalks.


----------



## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> I am leery of anything traded in after a year. I don't know of anyone around here upgrading yearly regardless. I really do not want someone else's problem.


Could be someone found out there was not as much money in hay as they believed. I know the salesman said the person traded up. He is a salesman though.

We had a retired guy who decided to get rich baling hay. Bought a new baler, rake and Kuhn cutter. He had all three pieces back on the dealer lot before the next hay season.

With out being negative, I am inclined to follow your instincts on this one. Could be a lemon. Remember the discussions we see here from time to time about new balers the dealership can not make work right.


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## deadmoose

I keep gravitating toward the vermeer on a new one. There are Vermeer's all over here. Not near as many dealers. I know my dealer would rather sell me a NH as they have had them forever but only vermeer a couple of years. New the price is basically the same with almost a thousand extra.pounds built in. Maybe more than it "needs" but look at a tractor from 1940-197x. That extra steel and iron kept it alive.


----------



## rjmoses

deadmoose said:


> I am leery of anything traded in after a year. I don't know of anyone around here upgrading yearly regardless. I really do not want someone else's problem.


I agree! It could be a good deal. OR....it could be a lemon or just plain mishandled.

Ralph


----------



## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> Well, there are bankruptcies and some who finance for one year.
> You could also tell the dealer you want a dealer warranty for 90 days. I bet they'd do it.
> 7060 is a hell of a lot more baler....


No doubt on it being better. I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for. If I was going to bale a thousand or two bales a year that would be at the top of my list. I don't have the volume to justify what I am looking at let alone a nicer one. With my low volume that will cost me too much per bale. My resale will decline more because of age then bale count.

I would love to buy a quality used 10-15 year old baler. I do not have enough confidence in myself to distinguish between that and someone's basket case. And when it comes time to bale I need reliability. Calling in because of hay is not an option for me.

I think in my price range I minimize cost per bale buying this class. Say in 10 years I make 3500 bales and now have a 12000 baler. So I pay $3-4 a bale.


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## ontario hay man

Cant you get some custom work? Thats what made my baler and tractor payments for years.


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## deadmoose

No. As sweet brown would say "ain't nobody got time for that!".


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## Dill

Don't see many vemeers around here. What's deal with the rebels will they do silage? I was just browsing the vemeer site and I"m surprised there is only 1 4x4 option.


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## deadmoose

No. They are the entry level model.


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## ontario hay man

deadmoose said:


> No. As sweet brown would say "ain't nobody got time for that!".


Like I say "aint nobody got time for sleeping"


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## hog987

On the 450 is there any way the dealer will let you see it running? If you can and everything look alright no odd sounds. Also if the monitor can be hooked up and the tie can be tripped by hand to see if it will tie. If it sounds alright, belts track right and will tie, will thats really all there is to the 450 baler


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## JD3430

Well I can tell you I have buyers regret on my BR7060. 
Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because I should have bought the rotocut feature. 
Actually, I wished I bought a 4x6 SS baler with rotocut. So if I could, I'd be trading in my BR7060 with only 800 bales on it on a new 6x4 SS with rotocut, and my baler is near perfect. So someone would be getting a heck of a nice baler for probably ~22k +/-


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## ontario hay man

JD3430 said:


> Well I can tell you I have buyers regret on my BR7060.
> Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because I should have bought the rotocut feature.
> Actually, I wished I bought a 4x6 SS baler with rotocut. So if I could, I'd be trading in my BR7060 with only 800 bales on it on a new 6x4 SS with rotocut, and my baler is near perfect. So someone would be getting a heck of a nice baler for probably ~22k +/-


I will give you 16k to do you a favor lol


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## deadmoose

Sure JD. I would love one of them too. Pocketbook and acreage aren't that big. Gotta start somewhere though. If I can pull the trigger on a rake and baler I will have all of my original hay equipment replaced.


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## deadmoose

Maybe a few more years and I will be itching to get rid of my lil 7040 too... .


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## JD3430

Oh,,,,,you will. 
Once you start making RB's, its over. You'll be dreaming of getting bigger into hay every day.


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## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> No. They are the entry level model.


Our dealer said 500 rolls per year was the recommended number between a 5420 and their commercial series.

Deere's 458 is their non commercial baler (hate to call it entry level because that will tick some people off).

I know people with the 458's and 5410/5420 Rebel balers that make 1,000 - 2,000 rolls per year.


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## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> Well I can tell you I have buyers regret on my BR7060.
> Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because I should have bought the rotocut feature.
> Actually, I wished I bought a 4x6 SS baler with rotocut. So if I could, I'd be trading in my BR7060 with only 800 bales on it on a new 6x4 SS with rotocut, and my baler is near perfect. So someone would be getting a heck of a nice baler for probably ~22k +/-


Do you have customers who'd rather have cut hay?


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## deadmoose

Jd- I dream of rounds daily already. My current RB is a Hesston 5530. 39*54 is pushing it. After it broke last year I was sold that I never need that small of a bale again. The guy I hired baled me nice 4*5.5 on a JD 467. Beautiful netwrap bales. I love the net. Feeds great. Easier to remove than twine. Much less hassle. And, with everyone else's reasons including reduced spoilage I am hooked.


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## rajela

Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


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## mlappin

rajela said:


> Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


You couldn't give a twine wrap only machine. I have round bales that sit outside for the beef cows and I'd still rather deal with frozen net than twine.

Pick one up high as possible with the loader and drop it a few times, net comes off a lot easier.


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## ontario hay man

mlappin said:


> You couldn't give a twine wrap only machine. I have round bales that sit outside for the beef cows and I'd still rather deal with frozen net than twine.
> 
> Pick one up high as possible with the loader and drop it a few times, net comes off a lot easier.


Ya and a pry bar to beat on the ice for the stubborn ones.


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## JD3430

rajela said:


> Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


OMG, my 12 yr old daughter could remove net wrap 10x faster than I could remove twine. In fact, I don't even need a knife anymore. I just grab the end of the wrap and unwrap the bale in about 10 seconds.
When we were using twine, we'd be out there, 2 of us with knives cutting all kinds of twine off the bales. We knew some was left behind.

Like MLappin said, couldn't give me a twine baler.


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## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> Do you have customers who'd rather have cut hay?


No, but Im pretty sure I will because I can see why cut hay is less wasteful. 
I think it could be another potential selling tool. Short pieces of hay mean less waste, but of course the rotocut feature requires more cost to run. 
If I could get right price on my baler and find a rotocut SS 4x6, I think I'd do it.


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## Tim/South

rajela said:


> Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


I can grab the end of the net and unwrap a roll before I can get my knife out for twine. It is understandable that rolls in freezing and snowing environments can make the net harder to remove.

With twine you can see every place in the field where the baler stopped to make a roll. There will be fines under the baler. Not so with net.


----------



## Hayman1

rajela said:


> Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


Put a box cutter in your tractor toolbox with a sharp blade, slice bottom up 1/2 way with the roll tilted off the ground, set it flat and cut the other halfway down-15 seconds and ten of those are getting off the tractor(ok, maybe 30 but still...). So much faster than finding all the stupid strings


----------



## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> No, but Im pretty sure I will because I can see why cut hay is less wasteful.
> I think it could be another potential selling tool. Short pieces of hay mean less waste, but of course the rotocut feature requires more cost to run.
> If I could get right price on my baler and find a rotocut SS 4x6, I think I'd do it.


Good hay in a good feeder will have virtually the same amount of waste regardless. Unless you're selling to someone who's dropping it in a TMR or if your hay is too old and you're rotocutting it to trick animals into eating overgrown seed stems, it's not worth it for you to change balers until you get your 3x3.

Also, do they even make an SS 4x6? They didn't before, but I don't exactly look at new balers regularly.


----------



## hog987

I hate removing net. Got a system in place where I can remove twine from my bales in under a minute. The thing I hate about net it that it can freeze to the ground, bale beside it or even a hard snow/ice bank. Than the net breaks and the bale falls apart right where you dont want it too. Really bad with fine straw having an exploded bale. By the time it goes to where its need half the bale is gone.


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## deadmoose

Hog what is your system? Net sure comes off awfully easy compared to twine for me. This year I tried 2-3 different types of sisal and a couple of poly. I hate them all when compared to net. My favorite bale was one that was supposed to have netwrap but only got half a wrap. I pulled it off when I moved it where I stored it. If only they were all that easy....


----------



## JD3430

hog987 said:


> I hate removing net. Got a system in place where I can remove twine from my bales in under a minute. The thing I hate about net it that it can freeze to the ground, bale beside it or even a hard snow/ice bank. Than the net breaks and the bale falls apart right where you dont want it too. Really bad with fine straw having an exploded bale. By the time it goes to where its need half the bale is gone.


Under a minute is fast, but 10-15 seconds is faster 

I dont even cut it, that makes clean up slower. I just find where the edge stopped, grasp it and unwind until its off. Never had it take more than 15 sec. Ball it up and throw it in the trash.

I guess were splitting hairs at this point.


----------



## GawasFarm

deadmoose said:


> Hog- any reason you could think of that would make someone want to upgrade after a year ( at a decent size loss)?


My Br7060 was one or two years old when I got it I can't remember which with only 2000 bales through it. Guy traded up to a rotocut feature because his customers wanted it because it was easier to feed by hand (horse people I think)

Baler still had all the paint on it and I got it for right around 20k summer of 2010. Great deal.


----------



## ontario hay man

Roto cut is nice for the critters but its a PITA if you have to pitch fork it any distance. Like picking fly shit out of pepper with boxing gloves on


----------



## hog987

deadmoose said:


> Hog what is your system? Net sure comes off awfully easy compared to twine for me. This year I tried 2-3 different types of sisal and a couple of poly. I hate them all when compared to net. My favorite bale was one that was supposed to have netwrap but only got half a wrap. I pulled it off when I moved it where I stored it. If only they were all that easy....


I set the bales up on there end facing the sun 2-3 weeks before I plan on feeding them. This way the sun melts most of the snow and ice off. When time comes to feed cut all the twine, grab in my hand and walk around the bale. Roll up twine and done. Big difference is any net wrap bales I get are a 5x6 instead of my 4x5 hay bales. Usually if I can find cheap straw to bed cattle with. They have the cover edge. It does help if I do the same thing with them as the twine wrapped bales. But with the cover edge the bale is sitting on some of the net and is hard to pull out.If I fork the end of the bale it might have one spot that is frozen and it happens to be on top of the bale being hard to reach. If I had indoor storage and only handled the bales once before feeding net would be ok. But I dont have either.

Also once the net rips it seems to keep running. Can have too many broken bales. Some might say use better net. Maybe but when things are cold all plastic get brittle. I dont have net on my baler nor do I ever want net. If the twine breaks its usually only one or two strings but can at least move the bale with out it falling apart. Some of it depends on your local climate.


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## Bgriffin856

Twine or net doesn't matter to me. Net is faster when baling twine is cheaper. Usually run twine but did buy a roll of net just to get baling done quicker with the weather but used it all the first day.... Twine can be a pain in second crop bales


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## ontario hay man

Thing I dont like is twine bales spin in the baler 20 times net spin 2. With the weather we get that 15 seconds every bale can be the difference of hay getting washed or not. Not to mention more wear and tear. Time is money


----------



## Tim/South

ontario hay man said:


> Thing I dont like is twine bales spin in the baler 20 times net spin 2. With the weather we get that 15 seconds every bale can be the difference of hay getting washed or not. Not to mention more wear and tear. Time is money


And more fuel used.

With twine the bale spins more time at max load than any other time in the bale making process. There is probably more wear in the belts and bearings spinning on twine than when building the roll.

During the twine process the pick up is also spinning yet doing no work.


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## barnrope

Net is a bear to get off this winter regardless if you drop them from up high or what. Its just been too cold for too long. I wish I had some twined bales with sisal. I'd just dump them in and drive away.

My baler doesn't have twine on it so that can't happen.


----------



## rajela

Tim/South said:


> And more fuel used.
> 
> With twine the bale spins more time at max load than any other time in the bale making process. There is probably more wear in the belts and bearings spinning on twine than when building the roll.
> 
> During the twine process the pick up is also spinning yet doing no work.


Did not say the hay baling man doesn't like it. Just said the ranchers that have to feed it doesn't care for it.


----------



## Tim/South

rajela said:


> Did not say the hay baling man doesn't like it. Just said the ranchers that have to feed it doesn't care for it.


That has to be regional and also storing conditions.

We do not have net freezing issues here. The majority of my rolls are stored inside and snow or freezing temps are not a problem. I did have 90 stored outside but they are not much different than those stored inside when it comes to removing the net.

I feed over 500 rolls each winter. Net is much easier here in the southeast.

I wonder how many people cut the net rather than unwind it? Curious if that would make a difference?


----------



## ontario hay man

rajela said:


> Did not say the hay baling man doesn't like it. Just said the ranchers that have to feed it doesn't care for it.


You ever tried getting twine off a bale with an inch of ice and 6 inches of snow on top of it? BIG PITA.


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## deadmoose

ontario hay man said:


> You ever tried getting twine off a bale with an inch of ice and 6 inches of snow on top of it? BIG PITA.


Yup. Will be shortly again. Net is easier for me here with my outside storage.


----------



## JD3430

Tim/South said:


> That has to be regional and also storing conditions.
> We do not have net freezing issues here. The majority of my rolls are stored inside and snow or freezing temps are not a problem. I did have 90 stored outside but they are not much different than those stored inside when it comes to removing the net.
> I feed over 500 rolls each winter. Net is much easier here in the southeast.
> I wonder how many people cut the net rather than unwind it? Curious if that would make a difference?


I used to cut, but found it makes more mess and one more tool to carry (although I usually keep a folding knife on me). 
Once I have the bale on the spear, I lower the bale to about 2' above the ground and unwind by hand. The hay on the very outside layer also seems to stay on the bale. When I cut it, I usually lose a thin layer.


----------



## wittegeit

Why not going for a Kuhn baler in combination with a Kuhn rake?


----------



## deadmoose

The same reason JD is out of the question. $$$$$$$


----------



## deadmoose

I am looking for a new Chevy. Not a used Cadillac.


----------



## rajela

ontario hay man said:


> You ever tried getting twine off a bale with an inch of ice and 6 inches of snow on top of it? BIG PITA.


Pulled enough twine off frozen bales to fill a train car...,yes I have pulled miles and miles of twine. Cut it on one side gather the ends and pull it off. I can have twine off a 5X6 roll before a cat can lick his azz.


----------



## deadmoose

I received an email from second dealer for vermeer quote. He asked before the quote how I would like it optioned. Fair enough. He also asked if I wanted net or net and twine. I did not realize that was an option. I am waiting for his response on net only savings.


----------



## mlappin

deadmoose said:


> Yup. Will be shortly again. Net is easier for me here with my outside storage.


Same here, majority of my cow hay sits outside, this winter has been horrible for ice build up. Actually had rain middle of last month, not enough to melt all the snow, just 75% of what was on top of the bales, then it got cold with sleet and so on.

I dig a few extra out and place them in a sunny spot after dropping them several times to knock most of the snow off. First baler was twine only, unless it's given to me I won't deal with twine wrapped bales in the winter.


----------



## Bonfire

rajela said:


> Your the first guy that I have heard say the net was easy to remove. Most people around here hate the net as far getting it off for feeding.


Must be cover edge.

I unwrap my bales as others have said. Grab the cut end of the net and unwrap it. My only complaint/problem with surface wrap is when wrapped in plastic and frozen, it can be difficult finding the cut end because its mashed down tight against the bale and, well, frozen to it. I'm gonna try dropping them on the ground a couple of times. Looks like next week.


----------



## swmnhay

If you are removeing the net by hand use 48" for 4' bales and 64" for the 5' wide bales if you use the wider stuff it will snag over the edge takeing it off.


----------



## hog987

So most of you guy with net is it the cover edge net?


----------



## rajela

hog987 said:


> So most of you guy with net is it the cover edge net?


Nope....


----------



## Bonfire

hog987 said:


> So most of you guy with net is it the cover edge net?


Edge to edge. 64"


----------



## deadmoose

No. Heard of it. Seems like it would be too much of a pain to remove. I thought that was for nice looking bales to sell to the guy with a few hay burners so it looks pretty.


----------



## swmnhay

hog987 said:


> So most of you guy with net is it the cover edge net?


Most guys use the narrower net I would say about 2/3 of what I sell.The 1/3 that buy the wider stuff mostly grind it or run it threw bale shredder so removal is not a issue removeing it.

The narrower net has less chances of getting where it is not supposed to be on baler also,bearings,rollers,pickups because it does go past the edge of the bale it has more of a chance to snag in those places.


----------



## hog987

deadmoose said:


> No. Heard of it. Seems like it would be too much of a pain to remove. I thought that was for nice looking bales to sell to the guy with a few hay burners so it looks pretty.


That is what mostly around here for sale. John deere with cover edge and your right it is a big pain. That is where most of my experience with net rap comes from. Like I said before a 5x6 bale with cover edge and ice is not fun to take off. Now I can see where a 4x5 without might not be too bad.


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> I received an email from second dealer for vermeer quote. He asked before the quote how I would like it optioned. Fair enough. He also asked if I wanted net or net and twine. I did not realize that was an option. I am waiting for his response on net only savings.


Had a NH648 SS with net only.


----------



## GawasFarm

I was told that if you are wrapping the bales the over the edge wrap helps with less oxygen pockets on the edge of the bales, wether that is true or not I can not say. It definitely makes a nicer looking bale in my opinion and I store outside and feed them. I find once there is a layer of ice twine and net are both a PITA I also find that net wrapped bales stay together a lot better then twine when removed and I wonder if its because the whole face is recieving the tension versus a few spots with twine.


----------



## Tim/South

hog987 said:


> So most of you guy with net is it the cover edge net?


I cover the edge. I mostly store inside. Some say that covered edge traps water when stored outside. I had 90 outside this year. The bales looked good, I was impressed and really thought I would not be happy with their condition.

I did learn that the rolls wrapped in the tougher net did noticeably better than the more elastic stretching wrap.

Also very tight rolls help the net keep the water out.

I have the twine option on my baler. It came that way. The few rolls I have used string reminded me how quick net is.

If I am baling some "clean up" hay that is in the shadows and suspect, or getting some junk hay from around a pond or some place, I will use twine. This is for identification purposes more than anything.


----------



## hog987

Tim/South said:


> I cover the edge. I mostly store inside. Some say that covered edge traps water when stored outside. I had 90 outside this year. The bales looked good, I was impressed and really thought I would not be happy with their condition.
> 
> I did learn that the rolls wrapped in the tougher net did noticeably better than the more elastic stretching wrap.
> 
> Also very tight rolls help the net keep the water out.
> 
> I have the twine option on my baler. It came that way. The few rolls I have used string reminded me how quick net is.
> 
> If I am baling some "clean up" hay that is in the shadows and suspect, or getting some junk hay from around a pond or some place, I will use twine. This is for identification purposes more than anything.


I just use different color twine to identify the bales.


----------



## Tim/South

hog987 said:


> I just use different color twine to identify the bales.


How does that work? Does your baler offer two different string options? Pretty neat if it does.


----------



## hog987

I usually just change the twine on the one side. Ties 2 strings at a time just have to change one to tell the color change on bales. Usually use blue and red.


----------



## swmnhay

Tim/South said:


> I cover the edge. I mostly store inside. Some say that covered edge traps water when stored outside. I had 90 outside this year. The bales looked good, I was impressed and really thought I would not be happy with their condition.
> I did learn that the rolls wrapped in the tougher net did noticeably better than the more elastic stretching wrap.
> Also very tight rolls help the net keep the water out.


I have noticed using a coveredge wrap that it pulls down the edge of the bale slightly.So if you store outside end to end there is a indentation in the row between each bale.So instead of rain and smow melt running off the side of the row it can channel between the bales.I've seen this with my own eyes many times and it burns me that some sales people will deny that this happens.

Ditto on tight bales shedding water also.I've seen where guys put on 5 wraps of twine on a bale and complain of spoilage.Or you here of 1/3 of the bale is damaged.Well if they would of made a nice tight bale and put a decent amount of twine or net it would be a tight bale and shed the water instead of going into the bale.


----------



## Tim/South

hog987 said:


> I usually just change the twine on the one side. Ties 2 strings at a time just have to change one to tell the color change on bales. Usually use blue and red.


Ok, thanks. I was wondering if there was a new gizmo out that would let us change string color on the go.


----------



## hog987

Tim/South said:


> Ok, thanks. I was wondering if there was a new gizmo out that would let us change string color on the go.


Will at least not untill I(or someone else) invents one.


----------



## jhudsonred

Anyone have any time with NH BR7080? Just purchased one in a package deal and dont know much about them.


----------



## JD3430

jhudsonred said:


> Anyone have any time with NH BR7080? Just purchased one in a package deal and dont know much about them.


Welcome to HT.
I only have a BR7060. 
So far so good.


----------



## PaulN

I also have a BR7060. As far as I know, the BR7000's are all very much the same, just different sizes. I've used mine for only one season, and haven't had any problems. Do you have any specific questions?


----------



## deadmoose

So. I stopped by the dealer today. The sales guy I have been dealing with was out so I spoke with another guy. Good news for waiting-- he said Vermeer now zero for 60. I also got the scoop on the used NH. Supposed to be good as new now BUT they had to replace the tailgate a year ago (factory deformed caused belts to slide).

Vermeer +1 NH -1.


----------



## JD3430

Dude,,, you goin' Vermeer on us??
All the new financing comes out in March. I just jumped on Pequea 2.8% 5 yr for a new 6 star Tedder today.


----------



## deadmoose

It is March! Dealer said NH went to 1.9%. Soooo... If all goes well and we can get agreeable I think Vermeer is the way to go for me. Congrats on the new tedder. American made?


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> It is March! Dealer said NH went to 1.9%. Soooo... If all goes well and we can get agreeable I think Vermeer is the way to go for me. Congrats on the new tedder. American made?


Yeah, it's weird I called last week and they had 0/24. Called yesterday and they had 2.8/60, so I jumped on it. 
Yes, TT6100, Pequea Tedder made in USA! 
Looks like I have Tedder and sprayer finally done. Would love to score a tractor, but its not looking overly promising.


----------



## deadmoose

Also found out the Roll Belt 450 is being upgraded to a Vermeer 504.


----------



## deadmoose

Did you trade anything in?


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> It is March! Dealer said NH went to 1.9%. Soooo... If all goes well and we can get agreeable I think Vermeer is the way to go for me. Congrats on the new tedder. American made?


I thought NH just kicked off 0/60?
If its within $500 and you still want NH, NH dealers have $500 "instant cash" rebate cards they have laying around just to keep you from walking out the door. 
Not trying to keep you from buying Vermeer, just trying to save you some $ in case it's a toss-up.


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Did you trade anything in?


Yeah Pequea 4 star traded in.


----------



## deadmoose

$500 would not make a difference. I am looking for the better baler. Also dealer is the same.


----------



## JD3430

That's cool. Just wanted to let you know about the "secret coupon"


----------



## deadmoose

Good to know. I am looking at a rake as well. NH pro carts seem nice.


----------



## swmnhay

Deadmoose,If you are buying a Vermeer baler and also a rake you maybe eligible for multi unit discount.Check with your dealer.Just to let you know.


----------



## deadmoose

Thanks. Initially he said no when I asked but they have only been a dealer for a few years for Vermeer. In the lot today they had probably 20 new NH and 2 new Vermeer round balers. Lots of BR7070's in the lot.


----------



## rajela

go green..........................0% for 48 Months

http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/buying_and_finance/usa/special_offers/agriculture/hay_forage.page


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## FarmerCline

When I talked to Vermeer at the Sunbelt Expo they said if you bought 2 pieces of equipment that you would get a 2% discount off the total price, if you bought 3 pieces it would be 3% and so on. You might want to press your dealer into looking more into that for you.


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## hog987

FarmerCline said:


> When I talked to Vermeer at the Sunbelt Expo they said if you bought 2 pieces of equipment that you would get a 2% discount off the total price, if you bought 3 pieces it would be 3% and so on. You might want to press your dealer into looking more into that for you.


So true

I dont know how many salesman I have talked to that didnt know about all the current programs. Thats enough for me to go somewhere else and talk to someone that know the scoop. Unless they are willing to look it up which some are not. Sometimes its hard to find a good saleman.


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## Bgriffin856

I like the deal Deere is having for new hay equipment...haven't priced any nor am i interested in any at the moment


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## 8350HiTech

Bgriffin856 said:


> I like the deal Deere is having for new hay equipment...haven't priced any nor am i interested in any at the moment


That's ... Yeah ... Lol


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## PaulN

A friend of mine is also shopping for a new round baler. The salesman told him, in all honesty, your better off to get a loan from someone else (Agstar is at 3.8), and then buy the baler at the cash price. In John Deere's example, that's $1,500 off the price, which will more than pay the interest.

Paul


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## Hayman1

PaulN said:


> A friend of mine is also shopping for a new round baler. The salesman told him, in all honesty, your better off to get a loan from someone else (Agstar is at 3.8), and then buy the baler at the cash price. In John Deere's example, that's $1,500 off the price, which will more than pay the interest. Paul


That has been my experience with two tractor purchases. Cash purchase and borrow elsewhere. I use farm credit operating loan. The 459SS is pricey though.


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## hog987

You guys must beable to get better interest than what I can get here. For me it better to take dealer financing. Sometimes Deere has programs where there is no difference between cash and financing. When I bought my tractor there was $1000 difference. So I went with dealer. Where else can I pay $1000 interest on a new tractor over 5 years.


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## deadmoose

Same here hog. Dealer financing can set some good deals. I think baler is $700 more finance price (Vermeer).


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## JD3430

So what's the latest??


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## deadmoose

Waiting to hear from salesman on a rake.


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## deadmoose

I guess he sent me rake prices right away. I missed it on the attachment. We talked today and he is waiting to hear back from Vermeer about multi unit discount.

Rake price was better than expected. Vermeer vr1022 about $6 financed. NH pro cart slightly more. I will have to see about getting cash price on rake financed with baler. If only I had a winning lotto ticket....


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## AndyL

Went to my Vermeer Dealer open house today. Lots of food, and anything you bought was tax free. Priced a 605SM (for a friend) 29k today only. But Vermeer dose have 60 mo. 0% on certain model balers. (cornstalk special excluded) 9 models on list @ 60 mo.

48 & 36 mo. 0% on Balers, Mowers, Rakes and Tedders.

2 units 2% discount

3 units 3%

4 units 4%

5 or more 5%

Just thought I'd let you know moose


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## jhudsonred

PaulN said:


> I also have a BR7060. As far as I know, the BR7000's are all very much the same, just different sizes. I've used mine for only one season, and haven't had any problems. Do you have any specific questions?


Thanks, mine is the autowrap twine only. My question is say your at the end of the feild and dont have a complete bale. How do you activate the autowrap so you can bale a half bale?


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## PaulN

jhudsonred said:


> Thanks, mine is the autowrap twine only. My question is say your at the end of the feild and dont have a complete bale. How do you activate the autowrap so you can bale a half bale?



My baler has Bale Command Plus, so it's a bit different. However, in the owners manual, on page 3-19, there's a picture of the autowrap setup. On the right side of the baler are a pair of multi sheave pully's used to set the number of wraps. Directly below is the trip lever. Stop the PTO first, then go and push down on the lever to trip it, then start it up again to tie. If you don't have a manual, maybe I can get a picture for you.


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## rajela

WTH you have to get off the tractor....totally unacceptable.


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## jhudsonred

Thanks. Ya i ordered me a manual. Getting off the tractor is no biggie for me since its the last bale any way. Ha


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## PaulN

rajela said:


> WTH you have to get off the tractor....totally unacceptable.


All this modern technology makes us all more lazy.


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## deadmoose

Salesman offered a discount just north of 2%. I have a quote for 5420 w net no twine hyd pickup ramp haysavers fire extinguisher and moisture sensor. With a vr1022. Now I need to find a time to meet him and see how sharp his pencil can get. He said over the phone it is pretty sharp already small amount of wiggle room. With a package would the financing allow both on one with cash price on the rake?

Also I have not checked on net yet. I am wondering if my first roll or two should come from there as part of the deal. How much does Vermeer wrap run? Is it any good?

Last not least am I missing any option to add now? And how many people with net actually use twine? Seems like a good way to save some money if I have no need for it.

Thoughts?


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Thoughts?


My thought is don't get in over your head. Make sure you can make like 4x what you finance.....and then some.


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## Tim/South

Twine comes in handy if you run out of net. I use the twine now and then just to keep it handy, or to tie rough hay for identification purposes. I will never go back to a twine only. I doubt it will be used enough to pay for that option. I would rather have the moisture option than twine if I had to chose between the two.

I use Vermeer net. I switched to it after the first year. It is a tough net. I was apprehensive because I do not like change and the softer net worked well enough. I had also read some negative reviews about Vermeer net.

I tightened the brake on the net so it would go on tight and make a smoother cut. All the doo-dads and new terminology had me stumped at first, I am cautious by nature and want to understand how everything works. I kept tightening the tension brake down until an error message showed up on the screen (no net), then backed off a couple of turns. (learned that from the instruction manual).

Our dealer sells Vermeer net for $270 per roll. I was paying more for the other major brand name.


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## deadmoose

Tim how long of a roll?


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## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> My thought is don't get in over your head. Make sure you can make like 4x what you finance.....and then some.


Good thought.


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## somedevildawg

jhudsonred said:


> Thanks, mine is the autowrap twine only. My question is say your at the end of the feild and dont have a complete bale. How do you activate the autowrap so you can bale a half bale?


On the right side of the baler, in the front of the machine, to the left of the pto driveshaft if you are standing there in front of the machine, you will see a big 5"x1" handle made of flat metal....just below the machine and well above the pickup, it has the possibility to hide from you, but it's there....push hard down on that handle and it will trip the machine to tye.


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## somedevildawg

deadmoose said:


> Salesman offered a discount just north of 2%. I have a quote for 5420 w net no twine hyd pickup ramp haysavers fire extinguisher and moisture sensor. With a vr1022. Now I need to find a time to meet him and see how sharp his pencil can get. He said over the phone it is pretty sharp already small amount of wiggle room. With a package would the financing allow both on one with cash price on the rake?
> Also I have not checked on net yet. I am wondering if my first roll or two should come from there as part of the deal. How much does Vermeer wrap run? Is it any good?
> Last not least am I missing any option to add now? And how many people with net actually use twine? Seems like a good way to save some money if I have no need for it.
> Thoughts?


I know nothing about Vermeer as there are few in our area, but to the point about twine in a net baler....around here most folk ain't never put twine in em, made 10's of thousands and never saw a ball of twine....can't say as I blame em, always keep a spare roll in the storage compartment.


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## deadmoose

somedevildawg said:


> I know nothing about Vermeer as there are few in our area, but to the point about twine in a net baler....around here most folk ain't never put twine in em, made 10's of thousands and never saw a ball of twine....can't say as I blame em, always keep a spare roll in the storage compartment.


Thus one won't have twine at all. Save almost $1000.


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## JD3430

You couldn't force me to use twine. My 648 was twine less. My 7060 has twine. Wished I had used the money for all the twine nonsense towards applicator or crop cutter features.


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## deadmoose

Good to hear. I look forward to using new equipment. All my original hay equipment is ready to head to auction. Hopefully it will fetch a premium compared to scrap. I won't hold my breath on it though.


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## 8350HiTech

If you manage to plug up your pickup (and obviously it happens sometimes), those twine components are one more thing to extract a plug from. It's like snake fangs. So if you aren't going to use twine (and why would you on a net baler) there seems to me, like others have stated, no reason to spend the money on the twine mechanicals.


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## PaulN

My NH 7060 came with twine and net. New Holland doesn't have the net only option. I use the twine for summer feeding, simply because it cost less. But anything that will be stored for winter is net wrapped.


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## deadmoose

Why do you feed in the summer?


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## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> Tim how long of a roll?


9840 feet. i use the 51 inch and cover the ends.



8350HiTech said:


> If you manage to plug up your pickup (and obviously it happens sometimes), those twine components are one more thing to extract a plug from. It's like snake fangs. So if you aren't going to use twine (and why would you on a net baler) there seems to me, like others have stated, no reason to spend the money on the twine mechanicals.


One thing I learned, and bought our dealer was to raise and lower the tail gate a dozen times and it will back the hay out the front. The 5420 is not easy to plug. It will happen if the scraper on the starter roller is out of adjustment. I had to adjust mine early on.

If I need to make a small roll at the end of the field, I just press Start on the monitor and it will wrap. I imagine the 5420 had the same option.


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## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Salesman offered a discount just north of 2%. I have a quote for 5420 w net no twine hyd pickup ramp haysavers fire extinguisher and moisture sensor. With a vr1022. Now I need to find a time to meet him and see how sharp his pencil can get. He said over the phone it is pretty sharp already small amount of wiggle room. With a package would the financing allow both on one with cash price on the rake?
> Also I have not checked on net yet. I am wondering if my first roll or two should come from there as part of the deal. How much does Vermeer wrap run? Is it any good?
> Last not least am I missing any option to add now? And how many people with net actually use twine? Seems like a good way to save some money if I have no need for it.
> Thoughts?


New holland gave me a full roll and a starter roll in the storage compartment as part of the package. I negotiated a badger fire extinguisher into the deal AFTER he gave me his final price. 
Can you open a line of credit with your bank, take a cash back offer, then make payments to line of credit (if cash back is offered)? 
L/C has much longer payback terms and if you need to skip a month, you just pay interest only.


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## 8350HiTech

Tim/South said:


> 9840 feet. i use the 51 inch and cover the ends.
> 
> One thing I learned, and bought our dealer was to raise and lower the tail gate a dozen times and it will back the hay out the front. The 5420 is not easy to plug. It will happen if the scraper on the starter roller is out of adjustment. I had to adjust mine early on.
> 
> If I need to make a small roll at the end of the field, I just press Start on the monitor and it will wrap. I imagine the 5420 had the same option.


Yeah. Sometimes I'm in the mood to just dump the bale and rebale it. Sometimes, for whatever reason, digging out the plug seems a better idea. Of course, by the time you dig it out it's usually hard to remember why the easier route wasn't chosen


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## PaulN

deadmoose said:


> Why do you feed in the summer?


Not enough pasture ground.


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## deadmoose

Well I ended at $28,500 finance price (rake and baler). If I had the cash would have been $1350 cheaper. Dealer placing order Monday.


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## Grateful11

PaulN said:


> Not enough pasture ground.


Same here, wife and son feed year round but not nearly as much in the warm seasons. 41 breeding cows, 1 bull and currently 33 calves.


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## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> Well I ended at $28,500 finance price (rake and baler). If I had the cash would have been $1350 cheaper. Dealer placing order Monday.


Make absolutely certain they send someone who knows Vermeer balers out with you the first time you bale. My dealer mandated that I did not run the baler the first time unless he was there.

My net was tearing more than cutting. The setting is not exact from the factory because of different brands of net, plus the baler has not baled in the factory. The net needs to cut relatively smooth. My brake had to be tightened several turns.

Also the scraper on the starter roller needs to be set at a credit card thickness. On real dry hay it not as important. Get some fluffed after a shower and a little more moisture than normal and it will plug. It is a simple adjustment and when set correctly it will start a bale running wide open and not plug.


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## deadmoose

Thanks for the advice Tim. He did point out to me as I was trying to lower the price that they have to account for one if not more trips to the field with me.


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## JD3430

Do you have any $ left for an applicator? You'll want one.


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## deadmoose

No and not at this time.


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## deadmoose

I should be taking delivery early next week.




















Ready for some sunshine and growing weather.


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## rajela

Well yellow ain't bad


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## barnrope

I think you will be happy.  Who is your dealer?


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## rajela

What did the baler cost you if you don't mind my asking. I really like the rake wish I had one just like it.


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## Grateful11

Lookin' good Moose.

Just waiting for the ground to get dry enough to get on. Hay is about ready.


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## Tim/South

deadmoose said:


> I should be taking delivery early next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20140517_110355894_HDR.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20140517_105222469.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20140429_144808615_HDR.jpg
> 
> Ready for some sunshine and growing weather.


Have you pinched yourself yet to see if you are dreaming?

Once you get the baler set up and find out just how good that machine is, you are going to think you are living in heaven already.


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## PaulN

Before I bought my round baler, I did my research on the forums, like this one. One thing I noticed, there is always a New Holland / John Deere war going on some place. The other thing I noticed, nobody can say anything bad about Vermeer. If I had a Vermeer dealer close to me, I'd probably have a yellow baler instead of a red one. I envy you, Moose! What's more, I wish I had a rake like yours! 

I wish you the best of good fortune in the coming haying season.

Paul


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## bluefarmer

I too want the rake!!!


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## Tim/South

A friend of mine has run Kuhn rakes for several years. Was one of the reasons I went with Kuhn. His hired guy was at one of the farm shows this year and told him to trade the Kuhns for a Vermeer.

I believe Vermeer has stepped up to the plate. By all accounts the Vermeer rake is the real deal.


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## deadmoose

barnrope said:


> I think you will be happy.  Who is your dealer?





rajela said:


> What did the baler cost you if you don't mind my asking. I really like the rake wish I had one just like it.


Timmer

Package deal 28.5 finance price.


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## Bgriffin856

Now time to make hay and get it paid off.That's how i think anyhow


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## deadmoose

They arrived:

























Ready to roll!


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## rajela

looking good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like a few goodies....


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## bluefarmer

They shoulda give you a cap for each piece of equipment!! Looks good


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## Tim/South

As good as it feels to have them on your place it is going to be even better once you get the feel of the rake and baler. Nothing much compares to being in the field and not having to work on or pamper equipment.

Looks good. I know it was a big step. One that will keep you smiling for some time.


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## Bgriffin856

Looks good!

It is nice to have equipment your not working on all the time or stuff that breaks down when you absolutely can't afford it too. Seems we upgraded to the year 1997 lol the chopper, haybine, 7405, f350 are '97. The manure spreader tedder and skid loader are newer the rest is older


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## stack em up

Looks great moosey! Now just remember us poor schmucks who do to get to make hay with new stuff... Have fun with it!


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## stack em up

Supposed to read who do NOT get to make hay with new stuff.


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## deadmoose

I could not have been more pleased with performance today. My first real use of rake and baler. I adjusted rake for a 4' windrow. I had a bit of a learning curve on endrows but all raked well. I was worried how baler would take down windrows (knew tractor wouldn't clear all of them).

No need to worry. I did a little adjusting setting bale size. And thn had to change net right away. Starter roll lasted 10 rolls @ 3 wraps. Then I switched to two. Besides some messing around making sure all was OK, I think I had over 30 rolls in first tractor hour.

And it sucked down hay. No issues at all. 40+,bales on initial run. I am going to wait for some dew to finish tomorrow. Moisture tester was neat to watch. I wanna say most was showing about 12% alfalfa clover timothy mix. Now I need some more hay ground. This is not comparable to the scrap iron I started with.


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## deadmoose




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## mlappin

Only beef I have with Vermeer round balers is it seems the pick up is quite a ways back under that sheet metal making it harder to see. Not as bad as a case round baler a neighbor has though, pickup is so buried on that you could jam it and never know it until you're shoving a a pretty healthy pile of hay ahead of it.

Gonna let your neighbors borrow all that new stuff right?


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## deadmoose

Time to start pinching pennies to get a matching tedder. When my equipment sits together the 2 basket tedder looks out of place. I know. Everyone said start with a 4 basket but that was not.happening.

I think I need to go buy some lotto tickets this week.


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## deadmoose

I thought for sure I jammed it once and should have a few other times. Nope. Hay was nice and dry though.


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## Vol

Good for you moose....looks like it rolled a nice bale....new equipment makes life more satisfying and pleasurable. Best of luck with everything....I really like your outfit.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose

Thanks Mike. Loads of fun when I don't have to stop every few minutes to unclog. Or wrench. Or cuss out equipment. And I was having fun then!


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## Bgriffin856

Nice green looking hay!

Usually fades before it dries here


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## Tx Jim

JD rd balers are more common where I live. I hardly ever see another color rd baler than green baling here.


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