# Cost per round bale or acre ? cornstalks and hay



## Dapals

Hey just curious, what does it cost everyone to roll up a bale?

Hay?

Cornstalks?

now what do you charge per bale?


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## somedevildawg

Depends on what you say are costs, lots of people forget to calculate costs.....cost of equipment, cost of maintenance, cost of fuel, cost of operator (disclaimer: if you're a farmer evidently you are not suppose to get paid) if its the hired help, I think you can consider this "cost"  I charge around 22.50 to $25 with a 4 bale per acre minimum, so roughly $85-100 per acre.....I don't do a lot and that's fine with me....hth


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## Tim/South

In one Bahia field I have $72 dollars per roll in fertilize alone. Fertilized and no rain, one roll per acre. I can not afford to sell hay and expect to break even at that cost. My cows will be eating the expensive stuff.

I helped a friend haul hay last week. He bought 350 of this years rolls, barn stored for $25. If I knew I could buy hay at that price every year I would sell my baler.

In our area no one expects to pay more than $35 per roll. Until the numbers begin to change I will buy every cow I can afford and feed the hay we make.

I was at a forage growers conference a year or so ago and they said we would have $23.50 per roll in the life of our equipment. That was with 7,500 hours on a tractor, 10,000 rolls on a baler, 7,500 on a mower, 7,500 on a tedder 7,500 on the rake rake. Cost of fuel, regular maintenance, net wrap, mower blades, rake teeth etc were figured in. Said it did not matter new or used, that repair costs and payments equaled out.

Makes a person stop and think.


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## hog987

Fuel cost $0.3/bale

twine cost $1.00/bale

baler cost $2.00/bale

baler repair $1.00/bale

tractor cost $2.00/bale

operator cost $1.00/bale

= $7.30/bale

Plus what ever profit you want

This is just baling costs with my equipment putting up at lest 2000 bales a year. Your costs may vary.

Some will say operator cost are a bit high. But you have to consider if you are paying someone they are not going to be spending all their time baling. Things like fueling the tractor, servicing the baler, loading twine or net. Maybe there will be a break down.


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## ARD Farm

Why it's a hobby and the real money comed from the shop. Problem is, this is one expensive hobby.


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## Vol

Dapals said:


> Hey just curious, what does it cost everyone to roll up a bale?
> 
> Hay?
> 
> Cornstalks?
> 
> now what do you charge per bale?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AddGjZPVApMJ:https://store.extension.iastate.edu/Product/fm1698-pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

What size bale?A 5x6 is about twice the hay as a 4x5.

I charge $13 a bale for hay and $14 for stalks.There are a lot of people doing it for less here.$10-16 is the range I hear.The guy charging $16 says its not enough!!

This is for 5x6 bales.


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## Tx Jim

hog987 said:


> Fuel cost $0.3/bale
> 
> twine cost $1.00/bale
> 
> baler cost $2.00/bale
> 
> baler repair $1.00/bale
> 
> tractor cost $2.00/bale
> 
> operator cost $1.00/bale
> 
> = $7.30/bale


I think your twine cost at $1 per bale is incorrect or you're putting way too much twine on a bale OR twine is terribly high where you live. My netwrap cost for JD edge to edge is very close to $1 per bale. Netwrap cost $340 per roll and will do 325-330 4 X 5-1/2 bales. I think my baler cost is less than $2 per bale as I gave $20,000 for my baler and it has now baled 19,000 bales and still has salvage(trade in) value and my repair is nowhere near a $1 per bale.


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## 8350HiTech

Tim/South said:


> In one Bahia field I have $72 dollars per roll in fertilize alone. Fertilized and no rain, one roll per acre. I can not afford to sell hay and expect to break even at that cost. My cows will be eating the expensive stuff.
> I helped a friend haul hay last week. He bought 350 of this years rolls, barn stored for $25. If I knew I could buy hay at that price every year I would sell my baler.
> In our area no one expects to pay more than $35 per roll. Until the numbers begin to change I will buy ever cow I can afford and feed the hay we make.
> 
> I was at a forage growers conference a year or so ago and they said we would have $23.50 per roll in the life of our equipment. That was with 7,500 hours on a tractor, 10,000 rolls on a baler, 7,500 on a mower, 7,500 on a tedder 7,500 on the rake rake. Cost of fuel, regular maintenance, net wrap, mower blades, rake teeth etc were figured in. Said it did not matter new or used, that repair costs and payments equaled out.
> Makes a person stop and think.


I don't want to say there is now way that's right, but I'm pretty sure there's no way that's right. It sounds like they are figuring the equipment having zero value remaining when you're done with it. I realize you're from the south, but still...


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## hog987

Tx Jim said:


> I think your twine cost at $1 per bale is incorrect or you're putting way too much twine on a bale OR twine is terribly high where you live. My netwrap cost for JD edge to edge is very close to $1 per bale. Netwrap cost $340 per roll and will do 325-330 4 X 5-1/2 bales. I think my baler cost is less than $2 per bale as I gave $20,000 for my baler and it has now baled 19,000 bales and still has salvage(trade in) value and my repair is nowhere near a $1 per bale.


Yes the twine cost is less per bale if you just figure what it costs at the store. But you also have to figure in the trip to town to pick it up. The fuel cost. The wear and tear on the truck. Lobour costs (have to pay myself some how). The same thing with the repairs. Its usually less but one big repair can put it over. But again you have to figure in the trip to town to pick up the part. The time needed to repair the machine. That all cost money. I would also not like to think about what else I could be doing with my time thats more productive with my time than spending an afternoon running to town picking up a part and putting it on the baler.


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## Tx Jim

Tim/South said:


> I was at a forage growers conference a year or so ago and they said we would have $23.50 per roll in the life of our equipment. That was with 7,500 hours on a tractor, 10,000 rolls on a baler, 7,500 on a mower, 7,500 on a tedder 7,500 on the rake rake. Cost of fuel, regular maintenance, net wrap, mower blades, rake teeth etc were figured in. Said it did not matter new or used, that repair costs and payments equaled out.
> 
> Makes a person stop and think.


If the $23.50 per bale cost of baling hay was anywhere close to correct I would not still be in the custom hay baling business since '87 as I'd been BANKRUPT a long time back.


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## Tim/South

Tx Jim said:


> If the $23.50 per bale cost of baling hay was anywhere close to correct I would not still be in the custom hay baling business since '87 as I'd been BANKRUPT a long time back.


Is custom baling your only source of income?


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## Tim/South

8350HiTech said:


> I don't want to say there is now way that's right, but I'm pretty sure there's no way that's right. It sounds like they are figuring the equipment having zero value remaining when you're done with it. I realize you're from the south, but still...


Maybe a tractor with 7500 hours has more resell in the north than it does here. Same for a baler and all the other equipment.


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## swmnhay

Why would it take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales?

Must of been a over edjumacated idiot figuring the numbers.


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## Tx Jim

Tim/South said:


> Is custom baling your only source of income?


When I 1st started I custom farmed for my neighbors and day worked cattle when not baling. In my later years just custom baled and owned a few cows.


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## Tx Jim

swmnhay said:


> Why would it take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales?
> 
> Must of been a over edjumacated idiot figuring the numbers.


I agree as my baling tractor is a '91 JD 4255 that I purchased in '93 with 2847 hrs on the tach. which now is approaching 11,000 hrs and has baled way over 10,000 bales closer to 75,000+ bales.


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## hog987

Tx Jim said:


> I agree as my baling tractor is a '91 JD 4255 that I purchased in '93 with 2847 hrs on the tach. which now is approaching 11,000 hrs and has baled way over 10,000 bales closer to 75,000+ bales.


If just baling the hours add up slowly but if cutting raking and baling the hours will be about double.

Maybe the figures on 7500 hours for 10000 bales was taken here during the really bad drought. Instead of the normal 3 bales to the acre it was 3 acres to the bale.


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## Tx Jim

i



hog987 said:


> If just baling the hours add up slowly but if cutting raking and baling the hours will be about double.
> 
> Maybe the figures on 7500 hours for 10000 bales was taken here during the really bad drought. Instead of the normal 3 bales to the acre it was 3 acres to the bale.


I fail to see cutting or raking mentioned in your original post. You could lower your twine cost by buying several boxes of twine per trip to town. Believe me I know more than I care to know about baling very little hay to the acre during a drought. Where I live we just recorded the driest Sept since weather records have been kept plus were 37 inches behind on rainfall for the last 3 years.


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## hog987

Tx Jim said:


> i
> 
> I fail to see cutting or raking mentioned in your original post. You could lower your twine cost by buying several boxes of twine per trip to town. Believe me I know more than I care to know about baling very little hay to the acre during a drought. Where I live we just recorded the driest Sept since weather records have been kept plus were 37 inches behind on rainfall for the last 3 years.


I know my twine costs are lower but I use that figure cause it easy to figure and if I do some custom baling I can than make 40 cents per bale above twine cost.

My original post was just baling nothing else. I was just stating that if doing everything not just baling tractor hours will at least double. Maybe triple if you have to move all the bales on top of making them.

Just one example off one field of mine. To cut rake bale and haul bales off field just under a mile was an average of 4 bales per hour in the stack. If it was a wet year instead of a drough it could have been 6-7 bales an hour. But I can only travel so fast over the rough filed cutting and raking weather Iam get 3 bales per acre or 6 bales per acre.


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## Tim/South

swmnhay said:


> Why would it take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales?
> 
> Must of been a over edjumacated idiot figuring the numbers.


Not sure where you read that? (not going to roll my eyes)

The figures used were 7500 hours on the tractor. Did not say that was to roll 10,000 bales. The 10,000 rolls were for the baler.

If anyone has 10,000 hours on a tractor they are going to have the original purchase price along with repairs, maintenance and fuel added to that original purchase price.

The purchase price and repairs for a baler were figured at 10,000 rolls on that baler. Same with the cutter, tedder and rake, may have been 10,000 for each of those rather than the 7500 I posted.


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## Tim/South

Tx Jim said:


> When I 1st started I custom farmed for my neighbors and day worked cattle when not baling. In my later years just custom baled and owned a few cows.


If your income is based solely on custom baling then you are probably the most qualified to answer the questions pertaining to cost and profit.


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## JD3430

swmnhay said:


> Why would it take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales?
> 
> Must of been a over edjumacated idiot figuring the numbers.


Youre not kidding!

I have 550 hours on my tractor and have made 1600 bales, so with that math I could make 10,000 bales in 3438 hrs.

But wait, theres more! I also used same tractor to mow all those fields with a disc mower, too! Tedded about 1/2 of them, too. Also loaded about 1,000 of those bales onto trailers. So I'd guess I baled 1600 bales in only about 250 hrs!!!

Thats an average of about 10 minutes per bale.....VERY slow.


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## barnrope

Tx Jim said:


> I agree as my baling tractor is a '91 JD 4255 that I purchased in '93 with 2847 hrs on the tach. which now is approaching 11,000 hrs and has baled way over 10,000 bales closer to 75,000+ bales.


If your 4255 still looks nice and kept up good it's worth close to or more $30,000. If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it in 93'? I'll bet it doesn't owe you anything!


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## deadmoose

Lots of strong thoughts on costs associated with rolling hay. 

Dawg-is your cost only for baling or are you including cutting and raking?

Tim- with that cost per bale does any of your fert stick around into next year?


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## Fowllife

Tim/South said:


> I was at a forage growers conference a year or so ago and they said we would have $23.50 per roll in the life of our equipment. That was with 7,500 hours on a tractor, 10,000 rolls on a baler, 7,500 on a mower, 7,500 on a tedder 7,500 on the rake rake. Cost of fuel, regular maintenance, net wrap, mower blades, rake teeth etc were figured in. Said it did not matter new or used, that repair costs and payments equaled out.
> 
> Makes a person stop and think.


The $23.50/roll number that Tim mentions sounds accurate to me for total equipment cost/bale. This is a different number though then what the cost are to just bale 1 round bale. You guys are comparing the entire process to just one step, so the number will not be very close at all.

Now, if you split his number up does it make more sense?

$11 to bale

$6 to mow

$3.50 to rake

$3 to ted

$23.50 total


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## Tx Jim

barnrope said:


> If your 4255 still looks nice and kept up good it's worth close to or more $30,000. If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it in 93'? I'll bet it doesn't owe you anything!


My 4255 cost me $34,000 in '93 with as I stated 2847 hrs on the tach. It was 1-1/2 yrs old and cost $49,000 new. It came with a 5000 hr transferable extended warranty. It has had 2 water pumps, a rear engine crankshaft seal,one set of L/D control shaft seals,under haul brgs & damper AND THAT'S IT. I've used JD engine oil(Plus 50) in it since I bought it changed at 250 hrs intervals. My 4255 has been a very good purchase.and I wouldn't trade it even for a new JD as I don't like all the electronics.


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## Tx Jim

Tim/South said:


> If your income is based solely on custom baling then you are probably the most qualified to answer the questions pertaining to cost and profit.


I've never really put a pencil to my baling cost because I charge what other custom balers in my area charge which is $22 per 4X5.5 tight rd bales which includes cutting & raking with a 2 bale to acre minimum. .Average production is 2 to 3 bales per acre with adequate rainfall which we haven't been getting. As you can guess I'm in the twilight of my hay baling career and all my equipment has been paid for for several years. I now only bale my neighbors & my hay which amounts to about 2000-2500 bales per year.Another thing that lowered my cost of operation was my knowledge to repair equipment instead of sending it to a dealer for high $$$$ repairs. I think my cost are nowhere close to $22 to bale a bale of hay!!!!!!!!


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## somedevildawg

deadmoose said:


> Lots of strong thoughts on costs associated with rolling hay.
> 
> Dawg-is your cost only for baling or are you including cutting and raking?
> 
> Tim- with that cost per bale does any of your fert stick around into next year?


Cut/rake/Ted/ bale.....4bpa minimum......not my cost,that's what I charge, not much difference tho....

I have no idea how TxJim can do it for 2bpa minimum......I can spread some mayo on now, not so if they only had 2bpa


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## Tx Jim

If I enforced a 4 bpa minimum my equipment would sit in the barn for lack of customers.. You 4 bpa guys are LUCKY


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## somedevildawg

Lol....now that's funny

I would say that your customer is the lucky one......I don't think I'm doing too well even at $85 pa....rather it sit in the barn than have me in it losing money.....


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## swmnhay

Tim/South said:


> Not sure where you read that? (not going to roll my eyes)
> The figures used were 7500 hours on the tractor. Did not say that was to roll 10,000 bales. The 10,000 rolls were for the baler.
> If anyone has 10,000 hours on a tractor they are going to have the original purchase price along with repairs, maintenance and fuel added to that original purchase price.
> The purchase price and repairs for a baler were figured at 10,000 rolls on that baler. Same with the cutter, tedder and rake, may have been 10,000 for each of those rather than the 7500 I posted.


Just saying no way it should take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales.

I easily bale 30 bales per hr = 333 hrs
cut 2000 acres 3 times 6000 total cutting @ 10 acres an hr = 600 hrs.
6000 acres of rakeing at 30 acres hr = 200 hrs.

That's 1133 total hrs.

Double the hrs for road time,etc = 2266

These would be my numbers here with 5x6 bales.


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## Tx Jim

somedevildawg said:


> Cut/rake/Ted/ bale.....4bpa minimum......not my cost,that's what I charge, not much difference tho....
> 
> I have no idea how TxJim can do it for 2bpa minimum......I can spread some mayo on now, not so if they only had 2bpa


Some people are better money managers than others. Some people have large EGO's to support of which I don't have. I've survived in custom hay baling business since '87 & probably baled close to 150,000 bales so it can be accomplished. My newest tractor is 3 yrs old then a '91 and two '80 models. If I lived in 4 bpa hay I wouldn't know what to spend all that $$$$$$$$$ on.. You guys got it made!!!!!!


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## Tx Jim

swmnhay said:


> Just saying no way it should take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales.
> 
> I easily bale 30 bales per hr = 333 hrs
> cut 2000 acres 3 times 6000 total cutting @ 10 acres an hr = 600 hrs.
> 6000 acres of rakeing at 30 acres hr = 200 hrs.
> 
> That's 1133 total hrs.
> 
> Double the hrs for road time,etc = 2266
> 
> These would be my numbers here with 5x6 bales.


You must travel a long,long way to have twice the road time as baling time. Plus I see no way to rake 30 acres an hour. I have a 14 wheel rake and about 15 acres an hour is the limit but I have fie ant & gopher mounds to contend with..


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## 8350HiTech

Tx Jim said:


> You must travel a long,long way to have twice the road time as baling time. Plus I see no way to rake 30 acres an hour. I have a 14 wheel rake and about 15 acres an hour is the limit but I have fie ant & gopher mounds to contend with..


Road time and etc, he says. That would include idling while talking to your client and all sorts of other unintended and hard to calculate hours.


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## Tx Jim

8350HiTech said:


> Road time and etc, he says. That would include idling while talking to your client and all sorts of other unintended and hard to calculate hours.


I missed the "etc" BUT IMHO double of actual baling time IS A LOT OF WASTED time. He should make up a lot of lost time while he's raking "30 acres per hour".


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## hog987

swmnhay said:


> Just saying no way it should take 7500 hrs to bale 10,000 bales.
> 
> I easily bale 30 bales per hr = 333 hrs
> cut 2000 acres 3 times 6000 total cutting @ 10 acres an hr = 600 hrs.
> 6000 acres of rakeing at 30 acres hr = 200 hrs.
> 
> That's 1133 total hrs.
> 
> Double the hrs for road time,etc = 2266
> 
> These would be my numbers here with 5x6 bales.


Now I got thinking about this total hour thing. I think it would be pretty close 20+ years ago. Consider haybines instead of discbines. Older balers that only had half the appetite of the new balers. Now if they also considered working up and reseeding the hay every five years or so. All these hours add up. I look at what I started with and my new equipment now and I can put up twice the hay in the same time frame now.


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## ARD Farm

swmnhay said:


> What size bale?A 5x6 is about twice the hay as a 4x5.
> 
> I charge $13 a bale for hay and $14 for stalks.There are a lot of people doing it for less here.$10-16 is the range I hear.The guy charging $16 says its not enough!!
> 
> This is for 5x6 bales.


I tend to agree with that for 2 reasons, one, bailing stalks is dirty and two, it's hard on a bailer.

My new baier will never see cornstalks, period.


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## swmnhay

Tx Jim said:


> I missed the "etc" BUT IMHO double of actual baling time IS A LOT OF WASTED time. He should make up a lot of lost time while he's raking "30 acres per hour".


I was giving it the benefit of the doubt to come up with tractor hrs.

Just leaveing now to bale about 45 bales.45 min drive there 1.5 hrs to bale it and 45 min return trip.

I've always said if my land was all in one spot I could farm twice as much.

30 acres is pretty dang close.V rake covering 26' at 10-12 mph


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## swmnhay

hog987 said:


> Now I got thinking about this total hour thing. I think it would be pretty close 20+ years ago. Consider haybines instead of discbines. Older balers that only had half the appetite of the new balers. Now if they also considered working up and reseeding the hay every five years or so. All these hours add up. I look at what I started with and my new equipment now and I can put up twice the hay in the same time frame now.


So the guy standing it front of the room telling a bunch of farmers it takes 7500 tractor hrs to do 10,000 bales should maybe get a new book.??


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## Tx Jim

swmnhay said:


> Just leaveing now to bale about 45 bales.45 min drive there 1.5 hrs to bale it and 45 min return trip.
> 
> 30 acres is pretty dang close.V rake covering 26' at 10-12 mph


I don't have a clue what type rake you have but i'll bet you'll need a good welder if you pull it at 10-12 mph in Coastal fields where I live. 6 MPH is about top speed were I live..


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## hog987

swmnhay said:


> So the guy standing it front of the room telling a bunch of farmers it takes 7500 tractor hrs to do 10,000 bales should maybe get a new book.??


Oh no not a new book just a revised edition.  Or maybe this guy needs to update his equipment???

If its like here with Alberta Agriculture and there research and information the newest info is close to 15 years old. Most of the info was from research from the 80's. Its all dated with varieties, yields and machinery.


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## shadyoakhay

If I mow it ted it rake and bale in a 4x5 net wrapped roll its hard to get more than 15 a roll in Central NC.


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## Tx Jim

shadyoakhay said:


> If I mow it ted it rake and bale in a 4x5 net wrapped roll its hard to get more than 15 a roll in Central NC.


Dang and I thought people where I live that only pay $22 for cut,rake & bale were cheapskates.


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## Dapals

Wow got I got a lot of responses, but only a handful of ones on expense. On average I figure 6-12$ for my expenses depends on what i'm baling. Ditches are what run up my costs running here and there, usually charge that by the hour to make up for the 12 (Chasing around isn't worth it other wise, and yes I make money doing it). For bigger pieces where i can get a lot of bales done i charge by bale, 13 hay, 14-15 cornstalks; most times i can get 4 bales/ acre for hay, and for cornstalks i can get 5-6/acre, depends on the year. Usually can get 30-50 bales and hours.


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## deadmoose

Dapals said:


> Wow got I got a lot of responses, but only a handful of ones on expense. On average I figure 6-12$ for my expenses depends on what i'm baling. Ditches are what run up my costs running here and there, usually charge that by the hour to make up for the 12 (Chasing around isn't worth it other wise, and yes I make money doing it). For bigger pieces where i can get a lot of bales done i charge by bale, 13 hay, 14-15 cornstalks; most times i can get 4 bales/ acre for hay, and for cornstalks i can get 5-6/acre, depends on the year. Usually can get 30-50 bales and hours.


What are you counting as expense? Fuel, tractor, baler, net/twine, operator?

What do you pay yourself (or operator) in these costs?


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## Dapals

Fuel, tractor, depreciation, net wrap, operator, baler etc... I use the KSU estimate and have found them to be fairly accurate. I pay myself 13, because thats what i would pay someone else to run it for me if needed


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