# Sell The Farm



## Vol

Thats what this author says to do in many instances instead of trying to pass it on.....and he raises some very valid points. Painful as it may seem to the current operator, it may be best for the inheritors. This is a good thought provoking read.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com..._sell_the_farm/


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## rjmoses

As much as I don't like the idea of my land leaving the family, I have to agree with the author about kids having skin in the game. My farm has been in the family for over 100 years and it means a lot to me.

But it means nothing to my kids. I grew up here; they didn't. I look at it and remember riding with my grandfather, picking corn with horses and wagons, taking my grandmother's sugar coated donuts out to the field to the men cutting wheat and 100's of other memories. They look at it as a place to go on vacation for a few days, a place to party and lay back, take it easy.

To them, it has little or no value. So I agree, I will leave the place to them to be liquidated.

But I disagree with one part of his article: "But Deans argued that companies don't need to be built to last; they need to be built to make money. "You need to build a business that you can sell and leave money to their children so that they can pursue their dreams,""

Companies do need to be built to last! AND, they need to be built to make money so they can last. If they are only built to make money, the rapists attitude (AKA, the Harvard MBA), "our only concern is next quarter's profits" takes over. Quality goes to hell, customer service goes down the tubes and we end up with today's corporate America.

To paraphrase the movie Field of Dreams, build it to last, and they will come. Again and again and again .....

Just thoughts.

Ralph


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## NewBerlinBaler

[sub]Back in the 1990s when the wife & I were looking to purchase a farm, many (most ?) of the properties we looked at were being sold by farmers whose kids grew up, went to college and started careers/lives off the farm.[/sub]


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## swmnhay

NewBerlinBaler said:


> [sub]Back in the 1990s when the wife & I were looking to purchase a farm, many (most ?) of the properties we looked at were being sold by farmers whose kids grew up, went to college and started careers/lives off the farm.[/sub]


Alot of them didn't want to come back to the farm,easier punching a time clock and workin 40 hrs.After the 80's farming was frowned upon by many.

Now alot of sale are estates the next generation is cashing in so they can blow it on toys,etc.


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## Tim/South

There are several smaller 300 acre farms an hour from me that are for sale or have been sold. They are not really hobby farms, not hardly enough to make a living on these days either. The ones I have looked at raise cattle. On 300 acres here you can run a cow calf pair per acre. 200 acres in pasture and 100 acres in hay to feed them can make some coins. It also takes some work, knowledge and skill.
The children have jobs in town, married someone not into country living and do not want to return.
I can not blame the parents for selling the cows while prices are high and selling the land, either as a farm or in small tracts as they see fit. The kids are just going to sell it any way and the parents may as well enjoy the money now.

I am leaving my small place to my children. I have given my grandparents house to my daughter. She wanted it. My son got the house I was raised in.
I told them to decide who wanted what land, to decide what was fair, and I would make it happen.
My stipulation is that if either of them wants to keep on working the land that that person will get the lions share. My son would farm full time if we had enough land to earn a good living. My daughter likes the life and will help and never complain. Some of her decisions will be determined by who she marries.
My great-great grandfather bought this land from the railroad soon after Jackson stole it from the Indians. Most has been divided between different family members through the years. My uncle has 100 acres, I have 75. We are the last remaining "farmers" from the original old timers. There are large houses and subdivisions all around. My uncle and I are in the center of the community and are the only thing keeping this from becoming Yuppy-ville.
Any one of my ancestors could have sold it off and made money. I am not going to be the one in my line that does that.


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## JD3430

Wow what a heavy topic! There's so many similar stories re farmers in my community. One in particular: parents own a farm that has been in the family since William Penn sold it to them in late 1600's. it's teetering on bankruptcy. Barns collapsing, run down. Real sad. Land is for sale, but no one buying because real estate market went bust. Guy knows how to farm, but not how to run a business, I guess. I'm a blue collar type, but did go to college. Hate working inside and never made it past 2 years working in the corporate world. I bailed out of that snake pit 25 years ago and never looked back. Wonder what I would have become if I stayed??? Lol
I don't make 1/3 the money all my corporate executive neighbors make, and some days it really ticks me off. They have all the fancy crap I dont have, but I get to work outside on those glorious hot summer days. Sucks it don't pay more. 
I wish those of you who have kids that don't want to farm knew what they were missing. Can't half blame them for wanting a shot at the big money.....I think I just admitted that a few sentences ago.

I'd give a kidney to own my own farm. I am in awe of you guys that do. I know that means nothing to you, but nobody gets more respect from me than a real farmer. I think that's why I want to be one so much....I want to respect myself a lot, too.


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## Teslan

We are a 100 year family farm also. My father has gifted some of the farm to me already as he has been getting up in years. I disagree with the author of the article about needing skin in the game. Meaning to be saddled with debt I guess as long as the parents are alive. I feel I have plenty of skin in the game. We haven't had a farm loan of any sort since the 1980s. Though lately I've been toying with the idea of buying a neighboring farm. Sometime soon I will have to chat with a farm mortgage person about it. Then I will have skin in the game for that particular parcel I guess. I have made some changes with what equipment I have bought and use compared to what my dad always used. I still like the hay business and I don't see a need to get out of it just to be "innovative" Though I suppose I should consider corn once in awhile, but I'm gonna try Teff this year. That's a thing my dad had never even heard of. So I guess I'm being innovative there sort of. I went away to college and thought I would like to find a regular job for awhile, but after a few months sitting in a cubicle I decided it wasn't for me. So then I became a Realtor and also farm. It's a good mix. Though now I tire of the craziness that is real estate and more and more getting into farming. The real estate thing will still be there because my wife and I own our own little company and she sells real estate also. I just don't try to hard to find clients. Kind of do deals if someone comes to me needing to buy or selling something..

But back to buying the farm from the parents. There can be large tax issues with doing that unless the folks like giving money to the IRS. Especially with the price of farmland these days compared to the price most peoples parents either inherited or bought the property for many years ago. Hello capitol gains taxes.


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## askinner

I'm with JD on this one. I have not inherited any of what little I have, I have worked my a*se off for it. And yet I see all these 4th or 5th generation kids inheriting the farm, only to either sell it out, subdivide it, or just let it go to waste and do nothing with it. It really makes my blood boil.
Here in Australia, if you don't inheret farm land, it is near impossible to buy anything of a commercially viable size, as the prices are just so high due to the kids selling out to developers etc, and rented land is virtually unheard of. We also have the coal mines in this area that are also eating up prime farm land that is making it even more scarce.
The biggest problem with some of these kids, is they grow up not knowing what life without a farm is like. They grow up on it, and think there must be more to life, I'm sure each and every one of them will regret it later in life...


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## foz682

My plans are to take on some debt to help improve existing buildings and land, and to increase the size of our herd to bring it up to a more profitable number. While doing this I plan to be buying into the place(currently my fathers) and eventually inherit the rest. 
With the current size of the farm there's no real profits, and at times we're putting money in to keep things going. We have plenty of land and resources to support triple our herd or more with the only real costs being the animals themselves and some minor building improvements.
Most of my personal debts will be paid off by the end of August this year, that's when I plan to make a move on a transition loan from a farm creditor.
I could live pretty comfortably(financially) if I pursued my trade(journeyman pipefitter), but the trouble is that I'd either have to move my family to another province or spend a lot of time away from them. My heart is in agriculture and I can't imagine leaving the farm to grow up in weeds and apple trees. 
I know that I have relatives that would love to get their hands on parts of the farm so that they could "cash in" but so long as I'm around and well that's not happening.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Well for what's it worth i'm on small scale, my wife and I currently live with my grandmother since my grandfather past away about 3 1/2 years ago. We only have 39 ac. so i would only consider myself a hobby hay maker. We have horses and chickens, but i work my butt off during the day. I am a Sub Contractor and am hoping to purchase my grams farm at a reasonalbe price down the road. I'm afriad the other family members are going to be very upset at me when it comes time to purchase the farm, but this farm means a lot to me, i pretty much raised and grew up on this small tract of land. I have a lot of memories here. My grandfathers brother past away 4 years ago and he owned 200 ac farm w/ beef cattle that borders our 39ac. His wife still owns that and if my wife and I can afford it we would like to try and purchase some of that down the road so we have a little more ground to try and make some hay with and also secure a little more land to hunt.

My concern is how this may affect my relationship with the family, i think it will be a fair price, my wife and i've been living here for the last 3 1/2 yr taking care of the land, house and my grandmother. Its tough for afford land today.


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## JD3430

Estates....ugh...they can cause a lot of hurt feelings. I remember when my grandfather died...had an oil delivery business. My uncle drove over to his house the day after he died and took all his oil trucks! Usually the only "fair" way to do it is to split everything evenly, unless the will directs otherwise. You may then have enough $ to buy out your siblings.


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## Vol

Whitmer....I hope things will work out for you and your wife. Remember, just do what is right and then you can sleep at night with peace....you cannot control how some of your family may feel about things. Life is short...live it with appreciation.

Regards, Mike


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## Tim/South

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> My concern is how this may affect my relationship with the family, i think it will be a fair price, my wife and i've been living here for the last 3 1/2 yr taking care of the land, house and my grandmother. Its tough for afford land today.


None of us like family tension but I have come to learn the ones who are going to get upset are going to find something to witch about anyway.
No one knew I had bought my fathers land and houses 5 years before he died.
At one time his property would have been split 3 ways. As time passed Dad came to see how everyone had developed their own life. I had built on the farm, one acre in the middle of 40.
One day he said, "I did not ask the others to move away and never told them they could not return".
I had done a man's day work since I was 14 and had been here through thick and thin. It dawned on Dad that my life would change if 2/3's of the property was removed. I told him I would manage, that I would survive and make the best of what I had. That is when he decided to sell me everything he owned.
It is like Mike said. Keep to the high road, keep your nose clean and live a life that does not embarrass your family.


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## somedevildawg

The way the dollar is shrinking, I'll have to sell my farm for 27k an acre within the next 5-10 years to break even......longer than that, who knows....think ill donate it to abac university......


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## Teslan

Tim/South said:


> None of us like family tension but I have come to learn the ones who are going to get upset are going to find something to witch about anyway.
> No one knew I had bought my fathers land and houses 5 years before he died.
> At one time his property would have been split 3 ways. As time passed Dad came to see how everyone had developed their own life. I had built on the farm, one acre in the middle of 40.
> One day he said, "I did not ask the others to move away and never told them they could not return".
> I had done a man's day work since I was 14 and had been here through thick and thin. It dawned on Dad that my life would change if 2/3's of the property was removed. I told him I would manage, that I would survive and make the best of what I had. That is when he decided to sell me everything he owned.
> It is like Mike said. Keep to the high road, keep your nose clean and live a life that does not embarrass your family.


I guess if you have siblings that have had no part in the farm operation for years then one of the best ways is to buy it to somewhat forestall the hurt feelings and lack of trust that will always come up. So long as you pay a somewhat fair price and it's documented.

I don't have any siblings so this is not a worry for me.


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## JD3430

I have seen as many families ruined by estate disputes as I have seen ruined by divorce. I have already talked to my mother after my father just recently died and asked her if she had her will updated. She assured me it was done and her estate will be split into even 1/3's between me, brother & sister. 
That way there can be no hurt feelings on the real estate and liquid assets part. She will set family heirlooms, jewelry, etc aside. They will stay in family. That may be cause for some problems....
I don't want to think about it. Man......getting old sucks in so many ways......


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## Bob M

I am the 5th generation on our family farm, one oldest son who just graduated from Penn State will be the sixth.For now he wants to farm and is very good at it. My Dad and Uncle were given the farm from my Grandfather. Both my Grandfather and Great Grandfather were medical doctors who enjoyed farming. I am not sure my Dad and Uncle every really understood what it takes to pay for a farm. I am the youngest of 5 the 5 grandchildren, some liked the farm but wanted better paying jobs. I have always known I wanted to farm. After graduating from college back to the farm I came and luckly my brother and cousin had stayed until I graduated, not sure Dad and Uncle would have keep it going, they both worked of the farm. With in a year or so both my brother and cousin had left for better paying jobs. After 16 years I was able to convince a bank to lend me the money to buy the dairy cows and some equipment, and I rented the farm from Dad and Uncle. 8 years later I bought the 250ac family farm. Every thing I bought was for a fair price and all of my generation was aware of everything as we proceeded.All the time family and other farmers would ask why do I milk so many cows, why farm so much ground, and WHY DO I SMALL BALE 350AC OF HAY! My answer was always, because the bank likes me to show up each month with a BIG CHECK.I know how hard it is to compete against other farms that have been gifted, I also know that if I can stay financialy sound some day I will be able to out compete many of them. Many of those gifted farms are being run by a 3rd generation that has no idea how to build equity, all they know is grand dad worked hard, Dad has nice new equipment and they are the best farmers around and this 3rd generation has plenty of time play. I would agree with part of this article and think some combination of buying in and gifting is best.


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## swmnhay

Every situation is different and to say "Sell the farm" so they have skin in the game doesn't apply to everyone.Some of the next generation does have "Skin in the game"

You could have a child that wants to farm.Doesn't go out for sports,no time to busy farming.Takes off every 3rd day from school to stay home during planting & harvest.Doesn't draw a paycheck from the farm.Does some custom work with the farms equipment for $.Uses the custom work $ to update the eq for the farm.

Or you could have the kid that is out for sports while the hired men are doing the farm work.Kids don't want to do any of the dirty jobs.Go to college for 6 yrs partying.And racking up student loans and credit cards.

So both of these kids should be treated the same?One does have "Skin in the Game"


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## RockmartGA

JD3430 said:


> I have seen as many families ruined by estate disputes as I have seen ruined by divorce.


That is so true. My dad had two sisters, one of whom was the most greedy, possessive person you ever saw. I never thought much about how she had almost all of my grandparents "heirlooms" until my dad died and this lady was going through his house like a vulture. I never had much to say to her after that.

In the end, when she passed on, her son sold everything to a used furniture dealer and then sold her house. I went to the dealer and bought a few of my grandmother's things that had some sentimental value.

In the end, they are just "things". You can't take them with you. The best we can hope for is that we have raised our children to be better people than that.


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## Tim/South

swmnhay said:


> So both of these kids should be treated the same?One does have "Skin in the Game"


To me it is about being fair.
The two comparisons you made are very valid. If the farm was split 50-50 between these two then to me it would not be fair.
There was a time when family farms and businesses were gradually turned over to the one, or ones, who had paid the non monetary price. We have gradually move away from that to an air of entitlement.
Birthright only entitles the oxygen a person breathes. Everything else is earned.


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## slowzuki

There are a few farms around here that have transitioned to renting their ground out, I think the kids are mostly ok with splitting the rent should the parents pass away. If the ground didn't have a tenant secured I know the farm would be gone in an instant.


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## swmnhay

slowzuki said:


> There are a few farms around here that have transitioned to renting their ground out, I think the kids are mostly ok with splitting the rent should the parents pass away. If the ground didn't have a tenant secured I know the farm would be gone in an instant.


I've been advising someone to do this also.Set it up so they can't sell it but would have life time rental income.To me it makes more sence to have a life time income then to blow it in a few yrs on toys.

I also didn't see anything in the article about the tax implications of selling the ground.Capital Gains.


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## slowzuki

Person we got our land from was hammered on this. She had no succession planning. She was married to a brother of a farm partnership but ran the household and managed the bookkeeping. Her husband died and the partnership went to remaining brother with her living there still looking after him another 5 years before he died. He left it to her and her daughter, they had to sell to pay the taxes as they were not directly related. If she had lied and said she lived common law married to the brother, the taxes would have been nothing on her share. Get advice early on, you never know!



swmnhay said:


> I've been advising someone to do this also.Set it up so they can't sell it but would have life time rental income.To me it makes more sence to have a life time income then to blow it in a few yrs on toys.
> 
> I also didn't see anything in the article about the tax implications of selling the ground.Capital Gains.


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## rjmoses

In another thread, I described setting up a LLC to transfer on death to avoid estate and capital gains taxes. This worked well for my mother and I. But, LLC laws may vary from state to state.

Ralph


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Ok guys, spur of the moment, i just found out my Uncles Farm is going to be forsale possibly here. It's borders my grandparents land i currently live on but do not own, which is 39 ac only about 12 acs of fields. My uncles property that borders ours is about 150 ac. With nice size farm house, 40x60 pole barn and old big bank barn. Land is currently being farmed by local dairy farm and they are only paying 2k to lease it, plus store equipment in both barns, they farm a few thousand acres. I think the going rate should be twice that.

Ok so my question is they are wanting like $650,000 for this and i have no way of getting a mortgage for this but would have to work my but off to afford it though. So my question is, is there a route to take as far as renting to own or mortgage it right threw them and pay them all the interest rather then the bank? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

He really just needs money now to put a 20k addition on his house to move my aunt in with him.

I would be happy with just 25 ac. but he doesn't really want to subdivide it prefer it to stay whole.

Wondering if i offer 20k up front and rent to own for like 1500 a month for now until my wife is done with law school and is working, then we could hopfully bump it up a little more. They would benefit by getting over 200k in interest if they gave me a 20 or 30 term. Rather then me pay the bank the interest why not give it to family?


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## Bob M

5% interest on $650,000 would be $2708/month, 4% interest would be $ 2167/mo, 3% interest would be $1625/month.It is not unreasonable for a family member to give a interest only mortgage for a short period of time. Especially if your income will charge in a few years. Also remember you will have ownership cost ie taxes repairs etc. Hopefully it will work out for you, be nice for you to keep in the family!!!! Bob


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## Tim/South

Talk to your Uncle. If he is young enough he may take payments with the 20K up front. That happens some around here with kinfolk. It gives them some monthly income and not as much to worry about in taxes. They also like the security of knowing who is going to live around them.

Just tell him you would really like to buy the place and was wondering if a deal was possible.

I have a friend who just bought his uncle's cattle and the land that bordered him. He is making 3 yearly payments on the cattle and can sell enough calves each year to make that payment.
Not all deals work out so well but if he likes you and feels comfortable with having you around then he might be willing to work with you.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Ok my wife just looked property info up, i was off on the acreage. It's 104ac, the county has it assessed at $545,000. Most properties here today aren't selling for what the county has them assessed at.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Well heres the deal, it's technically was my grandfathers brothers farm, which he past away about 5 years ago, and his wife owns it but is giving there kid they raised(not true son) the farm. He is in his mid 30yrs probably. He needs the 20k for put the addition on his house to move here in with them. He got 7 ac off the farm to build his house on.

Man i just think about all the hay i could make on 104 acres lol.


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## swmnhay

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Ok guys, spur of the moment, i just found out my Uncles Farm is going to be forsale possibly here. It's borders my grandparents land i currently live on but do not own, which is 39 ac only about 12 acs of fields. My uncles property that borders ours is about 150 ac. With nice size farm house, 40x60 pole barn and old big bank barn. Land is currently being farmed by local dairy farm and they are only paying 2k to lease it, plus store equipment in both barns, they farm a few thousand acres. I think the going rate should be twice that.
> 
> Ok so my question is they are wanting like $650,000 for this and i have no way of getting a mortgage for this but would have to work my but off to afford it though. So my question is, is there a route to take as far as renting to own or mortgage it right threw them and pay them all the interest rather then the bank? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> He really just needs money now to put a 20k addition on his house to move my aunt in with him.
> 
> I would be happy with just 25 ac. but he doesn't really want to subdivide it prefer it to stay whole.
> 
> Wondering if i offer 20k up front and rent to own for like 1500 a month for now until my wife is done with law school and is working, then we could hopfully bump it up a little more. They would benefit by getting over 200k in interest if they gave me a 20 or 30 term. Rather then me pay the bank the interest why not give it to family?


It's called a "Contract For Deed"Used to be common many yrs ago but not now.


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## JD3430

Thats the one frustrating thing about farming if you own little or no land in MY area. You have no chance in buying land because its sooo damn expensive.
Whitmer, just let him take over the 104 acres if you cant afford it. Then be nicey-nice to him and ask him to let you farm the land rent free. If he says he wants rent, ask him how much he will have to pay for snow plowing, pasture mowing, etc. Try to work a deal with him where you would do that for him instead of writing him a check. Thats what I do.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Ok, talked to there son today and told him my thoughts and he seemed to really show interest in my offer and liked the idea of having that 2nd income every month for the next 30 years and the idea that it was investment and making money off the interest.

Is it wrong for me to go in and try and offer less to take that into consideration being they are family?

He also worried that if she does into a nursing home someday what will happen to all that money. Is there ways around that legal wise on how she can gift it to him or me and then i just write up a contract with him to give him the amount we agree upon?

Im looking at like 2k a month for 30yrs. I wonder if i would make out better to put half of it into hay and let the lease farmer keeping farming it. Theres total of 80 acres tillable. I'm trying to figure out what my best return from the land would be, cause this farmer is only paying $20 bucks an acre to lease the 80 ac. I think going rate it close to $50 around here but i duno.

Looking for any advice i can get, i only have hay equipment and it all works well but it's older stuff dont' believe i could be haying 40acs with it, i did do about 30 acs totaly last year between 2 and 3 cuttings on some fields on my lil place and neighbors. I know corn seems to be a decent cash crop but i would have to pick up so much more equipment and a bigger tractor. My thoughts is if i have 30ac in hay lease the rest out, im thinking at $4.00 a bale and avg 100 bales an acre 1st cut be $12,000. Thats just 1st cutting. If a decent year w/ a 2nd cut maybe make $20k a year off the hay? I realize i would have overhead, inless i work up a deal with the lease farmer to spray and plant the hay for me in return for farming the rest.

Any thoughts?


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Ok, talked to there son today and told him my thoughts and he seemed to really show interest in my offer and liked the idea of having that 2nd income every month for the next 30 years and the idea that it was investment and making money off the interest.
> 
> Is it wrong for me to go in and try and offer less to take that into consideration being they are family?
> 
> He also worried that if she does into a nursing home someday what will happen to all that money. Is there ways around that legal wise on how she can gift it to him or me and then i just write up a contract with him to give him the amount we agree upon?
> 
> Im looking at like 2k a month for 30yrs. I wonder if i would make out better to put half of it into hay and let the lease farmer keeping farming it. Theres total of 80 acres tillable. I'm trying to figure out what my best return from the land would be, cause this farmer is only paying $20 bucks an acre to lease the 80 ac. I think going rate it close to $50 around here but i duno.
> 
> Looking for any advice i can get, i only have hay equipment and it all works well but it's older stuff dont' believe i could be haying 40acs with it, i did do about 30 acs totaly last year between 2 and 3 cuttings on some fields on my lil place and neighbors. I know corn seems to be a decent cash crop but i would have to pick up so much more equipment and a bigger tractor. My thoughts is if i have 30ac in hay lease the rest out, im thinking at $4.00 a bale and avg 100 bales an acre 1st cut be $12,000. Thats just 1st cutting. If a decent year w/ a 2nd cut maybe make $20k a year off the hay? I realize i would have overhead, inless i work up a deal with the lease farmer to spray and plant the hay for me in return for farming the rest.
> 
> *Any thoughts?*


Thoughts???
Yeah...you're addicted to hay farming (like me). lol
Hold on to your wallett......


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Lol you hit the nail on the head.


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## Bob M

where are you located in pa.? I would think you could hire some one to plant and harvest your corn. Depending where you are $50/ ac is pretty cheap. You will probably need to talk to someone at your soil conservation office and or county extension office. I would think you may need a conservation plan, and a nutrient management plan. Also might want to consider an independent crop advisor. Sounds like alot but really is not that bad. Bob


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Im in Central Pa, north of Harrisburg about 30 mins. I know im sure i could work something out with thevlocal dairy farm, they say the soil needs a, lot of lime, n would like to put alfalfa on it , cause its within 2 milesvof there farm.


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## Bob M

You might be able to work out a deal with the dairy farm, that would allow you one or two cuttings and they get the other cuttings. They would probably want the first and last which would be hardest for you to make dry hay on anyway.


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Lol you hit the nail on the head.


Now you need to buy my Haybine!!!


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Haha, if i bought this farm im gona have to make do with the old equipment i got for a long time. Inless New Home Construction comes back and my work takes off again, but i don't forsea that happenin anytime soon.

The county has this farm assessed at $524,000. Farm is still in here name, but i need to figure out what the best option, as far as who to purchase it from and how to go about it to sweetened the deal for them, so there is no inheritance tax or if she would go into a home that the home couldn't come back on them and take the money?

I'm thinking of offering $450,000(county assestment is way high) at a 3.5% apr for 30 years. Probably giving $20k down and possibly just asking to have a year to pay a certain amount kind of like rent to own until my wife get situated and finds a job after graduating law school.

They would have the money then to put addition on house to move here in, plus no expense from her leaving in 2500sqft farm house by her self, I would pay property tax and everything for the limited time of renting to own. At which put we decide to start the 30yr mortgage.

They want it to stay as a farm as a whole and not see if developed and they know i will not do this.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Well hopfully if we end up getting the farm, we come to terms my april 1st of so, lol i wana seed new hay fields, it was all beans and corn last year so no growth is there be perfect to rent the no till drill from the county and drilling in O grass in 10 ac or so. Going to talk to the lease farmer in a few days, they want to put alfalfa there but im assuming if i get it and sign a contract with them they would be willing to pay more then.


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## JD3430

One thing to consider when you apply for a mortgage that I did. Obviously, the property you are comsidering is what they call an "income property". You need to show the property is not an ordinary residential property, but it produces income such as hay income, dairy income, etc. 
I did this with my property. I have a separate barn with its' own driveway, utilities, etc. I rent the barn to my corporation. The corporation pays me and my bride rent each month for the past 4 years.
I was able to show my mortgage company this on 2 separate refinances and they did in fact allow it as documented income. (I kept records).
Never be afraid to show that a property you are buying can produce income if it is capable of doing so. If you don't do it, you're short changing yourself!!


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

I'm working on my offer and getting my cousin to appraise property. Its soundin more like property is going to appraise for around 450k. Sounded more and more reasonable maybe.


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## JD3430

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> I'm working on my offer and getting my cousin to appraise property. Its soundin more like property is going to appraise for around 450k. Sounded more and more reasonable maybe.


Just remember a relative's appraisal would probably not be able to be used as a basis of value for a purchase. It would probably be perceived as a conflict of interest.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Yea, but he is an appraiser for a living, so i just figured that's gives me something to go off of, to make my offer and then i can tell them to get it appraised and find out for themselves. I talked to him more today and he actually pulled the records up and it's coming in at more like 410k. Claims true farm land is only bring 2-3k in this area and house and all is only worth 170k. So i took avg of 2500.00/100 acres = 250,000 plus the house and 2 barns at $410,000. If i can get for 450k or less financed threw them this just might happen.


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## JD3430

That's great. My mom is a PA real estate appraiser and has done lots of appraising for me, too. Just can't use her appraisals for anything I would ever finance. You're right it is a handy thing having a relative as an appraiser.


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## Tim/South

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Yea, but he is an appraiser for a living, so i just figured that's gives me something to go off of, to make my offer and then i can tell them to get it appraised and find out for themselves. I talked to him more today and he actually pulled the records up and it's coming in at more like 410k. Claims true farm land is only bring 2-3k in this area and house and all is only worth 170k. So i took avg of 2500.00/100 acres = 250,000 plus the house and 2 barns at $410,000. If i can get for 450k or less financed threw them this just might happen.


This is looking better and better and better.
I hope it works out for you. We need more small farm owners.


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## JD3430

Down my way, that size farm would sell for 3 million or more. Thats probably 75 building lots.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Yea, my cousin said as a commercial aspect if a developer would come in, it's worth 6-8k an acre. But they want it to stay as a farm and keep it in clean n green and as whole property not see houses going in. So that's what my cousin said it's worth being sold as a true residental/ agriculture property. I'm still going to be swamped with the mortgage, but if i can put 20 acres in hay hopefully i can get enough hay from that to stiumlate a 1/3rd of the mortgage a year. Once my wife is done w/ school and working then it's no so much of an issue. My guess is we won't come to terms before spring, it reallys doesn't bother me as long as i can get it for the price i want, not his 650k that he says county has it appraised at.

I would be in my glory w/ this farm, and with the hopes of farming it all myself someday, maybe i could retire at 50 if i invest right and then live off farming lol who knows maybe it is just wishful thinking, but i'm gona give it a shot and see what happens.

Closes property i saw for sale was w/in 10mi that i could compare with was 108 ac w/ 15 tillable and rest beign wooded acreage final sale price was $289,000 and had been listed for sometime. I am a bigger hunter so that's the only down fall to this 104 ac farm of my uncles, the 20ac is just small hollows and patches but i know the land around me where the deer come to feed on the crops will be there for long enough that i can still draw um over do to the crops in the fields.


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