# The 'interesting' part of selling hay is the customer.



## triguy46

I thought learning the hay business was about equipment, agriculture, weather. That stuff is easy compared to dealing with some very odd people who buy hay. Having bought hay myself, and having friends who buy hay, I'm don't want to disparage all customers. I just want to disparage the ones who want to buy my hay.

Another way to put this is, "Don't advertise on Craigslist."


----------



## Heyhay..eh

How true

The 10 acre people with a few horses, a goat and a donkey take the cake! By the time they get through establishing what can't be in the hay, the conditions under which it had to be baled and how far away from a dusty roadway it had to be made or stored ... well they are S.O.L here. Then they like to come and get it every week, just after supper ... or when you are knee deep in some project ... "can I trouble you for a few bales" Sad part, in the end it all adds up and I sell a lot of squares that way. A hay 7-11 why not!

Take care


----------



## kfarm_EC_IL

I told a lady last year after she got done telling me what kind of hay she wanted and then how much she would pay that maybe she should just shot the horse and we would both be happy.

Mark


----------



## Production Acres

We advertise ocassionly on craigs list, but only the selection of hay we offer and our phone #. The ads that say premium hay square bales baling in the field today for $2/bale. You know good and well how many bottom feeders you will get, how much trouble you will have, how much weeds is in the hay, how many bounced checks you will get, how many complaints you will get. We sell a lot of cheap hay - hay that has been culled from our better loads, but we really don't advertise that fact. It is very hard to build a good clientel, but we really try to aviod advertising cheap hay and that has eliminated a lot problems.


----------



## swmnhay

The best one I've had is.Can you bring me 1 Rd bale and skid loader and put bale in feeder for me.


----------



## ButchAutomatic

To me that is a service, a service I can charge very dearly for.


----------



## swmnhay

I do deliver 5 rd bales and bring skid loader along on trailer to a few people.As a service that they pay me well forDon't mind doing it but hate it when they don't give me a couple days notice.


----------



## nwfarmer

7-11 hay sales is great. My best customer buys 10 bales every ten days. I do hustle for customers that only bring cash. LOL


----------



## bunchgrass1

How do you handle the loading issue? Customer loads or you load? I'm talking sm squares. It seems to be no win in my opinion. If I load then I'm doing extra work for no more cash (should charge or increase hay price). If they load, stack gets all torn to hell, broken bales left and right .... Those of you who have customers coming every 10 days or so are providing free storage unless you factor that into your overall price.

You're right that the "bottom feeders" will swarm out and be the most discerning customers about the hay vs price. We see many that think hay should cost the same as it did in 1940 or something. Wake up folks.

With regard to all the restrictions on dusty roads, weeds, baling conditions etc - that crap is coming from the "how to" publications - in this case how to choose good hay. Written as pie in the sky unrealistic stuff by people who have never put up a bale of hay.


----------



## okhillbilly

(Bunchgrass1) Most of the time I help load out of the barn. Because of the reasons you mention (torn up bales mainly). Mostly get hay off the stack to the floor, they load however they wish. It's funny sometimes to watch because alot of people can't stack to save thier life. Sometimes I just watch if they have an attitude and let them do all the work when it's lower in the barn.

In the field they can load it. That's why they get a .25 cent price break. They fell like its a good deal to walk all over and do all the heavy lifting. I'm usually busy baling anyway.

I had a lady call about some goat hay. "You all know the weedy stuff". The minute she got thier she was complaining about something or someone else's hay. I can't remember what now. Anyway the hay I had was not good enough for her goats and she wanted the premiam horse hay instead. Complaned the whole time about the horse hay about lenth and wieght and color and price you name it. Needless to say when she calls I'm sold out.


----------



## nwfarmer

They load. BUT! I only pull the tarp back far enough for them to get their hay. Plus I chit chat while they load, or the wife, if I am busy. I remind them about leaving a clean stack. We have most of our regular customers trained. A couple of years ago we had a college professor come to buy hay for his horses. Probably just pets. He backed up to the side of the stack and was just going to push the side over onto his trailer. Claims he did it all the time where he bought hay before. I told him here we load from the end of the stack only and leave a clean stack for the next customer. He loaded a couple of bales and left. Haven't seen him since. LOL The majority of our serious customers take a 1 ton pickup load or 2 ton horse trailer load. They will undercount if you aren't watching them.


----------



## Heyhay..eh

I do help load just to keep count of the bales and tabs on which stack they are coming from. No one gets into my loft but me. They park under the door and I throw them down or I will have them stacked outside the barn so they can just pull up and load their 10 or so bales on their truck.

Some steady customers have set aside an allotment of bales so I have to let them know what their inventory is. This also allows me to get an update on what their needs might be over the next while. Then I can put more in their stack or well some excess out of their set aside.

Over time we all learn who we want to deal with and give them the service they need and the others not so much unless they turn out to be descent folks, and really there are a lot of them out there.

Take care


----------



## Production Acres

All of our hay is prepackaged in 1/2 ton blocks and we sit these in the customers pickup on on their trailer for them and secure their load for them. Even when we have a hand load in some riduculous little horse trailer, we load everything. You wouldn't believe how many customers appreciate the service. Most don't know how to stack their hay, and most don't have a clue how to work their ratchet straps or use a rope to tie anything down. People are amazed that they can come and get their hay without it being a 1-2 hour production. They don't want to handle the hay - half of them have to hire a neighbor kid to come and unload it for them. A good percentage are women who can take off during the day and come and haul their hay home, that evening their husband can unload it. 
People come here to get hay, Service is what we sell!


----------



## kfarm_EC_IL

[quote name='People come here to get hay, Service is what we sell![/QUOTE']

Exactly PA My customers are getting hay, but buying me = our services. For our business this is where the money is made.
Mark


----------



## ROLLNITUP

Last year thought i would buy and sell some hay. Found out most people don't take pride in there hay.sold it to my regular buyers. started getting phone calls saying this is not your hay is it. i take the time to do it right some dont but they will tell you they got good hay. so no more buying and selling just my own hay


----------



## SDR

We had a woman who wanted us to cut and bale her hay, which we did. Her job was to pick it up in the field. Last night, around 730 we were still baling hay, my wife volunteered to drive her SUV behind their wagon so they could continue to get the bales.

They insisted they had to get back and put their daughter to bed by 730, so we went home also.

Today, we got out, baled 200 bales for them., told them we were headed out to do it, sun was shining, nice day. Her and her son came and got about 40 bales, still leaving about 180 in the field. They never returned. We finished baling, wife followed me home with all my equipment.

Wasnt long we got one of those quick thundershowers. She just called and said the hay is wet. I told her, we were there last night and you could have gotten it, I was there today, you showed up got a few bales and left. She wanted me to try to find someone to buy it.

I told her she hired me to cut and bale, which I did and I cant predict the weather, plus we were willing to help last night or today when the sun was shining. She hung up and now wont answer her phone.

Hate to think we put all those hours in, expense gas, twine etc etc for nothing. Then they wonder why people dont want to do anything for them. We know she has about 40 good haybales she got the night before.

I told her to just go turn them everyday and stack them in a tripot, She has alot of farm hands that help her.

Has anyone ever gone to small claims court after someone hired you to cut and bale their hay for them?


----------



## Heyhay..eh

Hey SDR

Haven't had to go to Small claims for any hay issues but that would be a good way to resolve your issue without invoking a huge legal bill. Small claims in our jurisdictions can be used for any claim for damages to the extent of $8000.00. It cannot be used for punitive claims just verified loss. Also our court is not presided by a judge but rather a trained court officer (clerk of the court), which generally means you don't have to get into any deep legal arguments showing case law or relevant precedents. Also the cost of going to our court is $20 for the filing for permission to appear. As you generally represent yourself there are no costs associated with that aspect of the hearing. Your ruling generally comes quickly, often times right from the bench and a positive ruling gives you the legal avenues with respect to collection.

If your court is similar then you just have to prepare your case, get a hearing date and present. Before doing that you should write a letter to your customer with an invoice for the work that you did on her behalf. Part of claiming no payment is to show that you charged for the services. So your invoice should show charges for mowing, baling, twine, transport of equipment to the field, any other services that you rendered (your wife's time in the truck following the wagon) etc. If you can send the letter (invoice) by registered (traceable mail) as it gives you some evidence if you do go to court ... that she was served an invoice and did not pay. That invoice should have a pay by date on it as well. Without it the court will determine that it is never past due.

If you have a written contract then all the better as it will identify the elements of what was agreed to between you and your customer. If not then you might have phone messages where she asks you to provide the service ... record these onto a tape, or if you have any notes or scribbles that show some form of contractual obligations that would also help. Without anything written your job of proving the elements of the contract might become a little more difficult. Don't get caught up with those who say that without a written contract you have no contract. Verbal contracts hold they are just harder to nail down.

So without a written contract your position is that you agreed to mow and bale for a fee, you provided no guarantee of the quality of the hay, nor the weather. She was responsible for getting the hay off the field ( in reality you should have just baled everything whether or not she was there to pick them, after that you are done and you send you bill now you have lost the opportunity to complete the job and earn the income that would have resulted.

So first send out that invoice with a due date,
after due date send another letter final notice,
Send notice that you will take action to collect (you might even sell the debt to a collector who will then hound her for payment ..I'm assuming that you are not looking to a long relationship with this customer so threatening a debt collector shouldn't matter)

Good luck


----------



## SDR

Thank you for the valuable information. Lesson taught never bale hay for anyone else except yourself. If so, get a written contract signed and dated and even witnessed, which still might not help. Once again, thank you and will follow your advice to the T.


----------



## Heyhay..eh

SDR

You need not shy away from this revenue stream as custom work can be profitable or at least help defray the costs of operation. You just need to nail down some of the details so that you have a reference from which to work. For the most part verbal contracts do well enough for your neighbours as they are less likely to stiff you. In cases of custom work outside of your neighbourhood you might want to provide a written scope of work complete with costs to the customer ... a simple letter will do. Then they can sign it and return a copy or you can respond to their verbal request to have you commence on the basis of the letter. You commencement and completion of the job is evidence to support the letter (you keep a copy) and the services you have offered.

I am sorry that you have such a bad experience in this case but know that they are not all like this.

Take care


----------



## RP Farms

I have found getting a cash advance or deposit of 25% of the anticipated custom harvest cost to be the way to go. I found that 25% upfront atleast pays the fuel and twine cost. Usually the customers understand the upfront cost and overhead we all have with equipment fuel materials and labor so they don't seem to mind spoting 25%. If they won't pay 25% upfront they will prob. not pay at the end of a job anyway so i let someone else bale there hay.


----------

