# Killing Vasey Grass in Coastal Bermuda using Pastora & RoundUP Combo



## SilentH

*Have a Vasey grass problem in my coastal hay patch*. My ranch is an hour west of Houston

The method going around is to spray the field using *Dupont Pastora *combined with *RoundUp* 7 to 10 days after a hay cutting, provided that you have a rain shower to get the Vasey grass actively growing ahead of the Coastal

The theory is spray the field before the coastal is green therefore the it will not take in the RoundUP and will only be taken back a bit.

My spring hay cut I did not make the window of 7 to 10 days and my coastal starting greening up therefore I used Pastora alone, and all it did was piss the Vasey off!! So advice on here do not waste your money!

*My question is what is the very maximum amount of RoundUP per acre I can combine with the Pastora? Given I am in the 7 - 10 day period and have growing Vasey grass... Also given, I am not cutting again and do not care what the Coastal looks like, for all I want is a biggest Vasey kill possible!*

Believe it or not I have been spot spraying RoundUP with 100% kill, however I am talking 40 acres and thousands of Vasey plants! If anyone know how much RoundUP or any other combination I am all ears!

Thanks!

Mark


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## LaneFarms

I have used round up at a quart with surfactant with no I'll affects to the Bermuda grass. I would forget the pastora.


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## somedevildawg

Yea Pastora doesn't work well on Vasey grass from my experience.....thnk I used impose? Been a few years since I had problems with Vasey grass....purty sure it was impose, stunted the Bermuda good but got rid of the Vasey grass....


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## davang

SilentH said:


> *Have a Vasey grass problem in my coastal hay patch*. My ranch is an hour west of Houston
> 
> The method going around is to spray the field using *Dupont Pastora *combined with *RoundUp* 7 to 10 days after a hay cutting, provided that you have a rain shower to get the Vasey grass actively growing ahead of the Coastal
> 
> The theory is spray the field before the coastal is green therefore the it will not take in the RoundUP and will only be taken back a bit.
> 
> My spring hay cut I did not make the window of 7 to 10 days and my coastal starting greening up therefore I used Pastora alone, and all it did was piss the Vasey off!! So advice on here do not waste your money!
> 
> *My question is what is the very maximum amount of RoundUP per acre I can combine with the Pastora? Given I am in the 7 - 10 day period and have growing Vasey grass... Also given, I am not cutting again and do not care what the Coastal looks like, for all I want is a biggest Vasey kill possible!*
> 
> Believe it or not I have been spot spraying RoundUP with 100% kill, however I am talking 40 acres and thousands of Vasey plants! If anyone know how much RoundUP or any other combination I am all ears!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark


Hey Mark, This is Jeff I'm down in Hungerford, I've started to see this in my field too, not much but some. Also some Klein grass is sprouting up where i've never seen it before. Very strange. I'm gonna spot spray with round up I guess. I've got mixed fields with bluestem but I'm trying to get the coastal and common to take over.


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## somedevildawg

I want back and checked yesterday, it was impose that I sprayed for Vasey.....works really well whether spot sprayed or broadcasted....I do remember it stunting the Bermuda good, but all was well in 30-40 days and Vasey was gone....hth


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## SilentH

Thanks for the advice! After your comments and some research I am going to hit it next Wednesday with Impose and Roundup! Even though the label recommends 6 - 8 ounces per acre I am going to hit it with 10 ounces of Impose and 16 ounces of Roundup. I am hitting it harder for I am done with cuttings and feel I need to attack this problem.

There was a time the vasey was in only in about 2 acres of the 40 I am treating and courtesy of the strong south winds in my area has spread to all of it in about 3 years. The field is still primarily coastal but when the vasey shoots up it looks bad! I started trying to spot spray with a 15 gallon Fimco from my mule which works great but it would have taken me 10 years to spray all that!!

I agree 100% pastora was big waste of time and money!! I'll never use it again! I would have used Alligare Panoramic which is the same as Impose but the place I am using could not get it in time for my spraying. http://www.alligarellc.com/assets/pdf/Panoramic_2SL_LABEL.pdf

I have attached the impose label which is full of great information on how to use the product!

I will post the before and after pictures on here... All I need is a little more ran before Wednesday for the stuff works best on growing vasey which is 4 to 8 inches tall...

thanks!

Mark


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## SilentH

davang said:


> Hey Mark, This is Jeff I'm down in Hungerford, I've started to see this in my field too, not much but some. Also some Klein grass is sprouting up where i've never seen it before. Very strange. I'm gonna spot spray with round up I guess. I've got mixed fields with bluestem but I'm trying to get the coastal and common to take over


Hi Jeff, what my spraying with Impose doesn't kill I am going to spot spray with RoundUp as well... Where I spot sprayed it knocked them dead!


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## somedevildawg

I agree 100% pastora was big waste of time and money!! I'll never use it again!

Don't say that! If you ever get sandbur....better get some Pastora. If ya ever have a problem with Baha'i.....better get some Pastora

Gotta trust those labels.....if it says poor control, that means it don't work at all...

I've found Pastora to be a great product for the grasses and weeds specific to the label, very common ones for Bermuda fields. But what I like best about Pastora is less stunting of the Bermuda.....that's an advantage in spring. Don't work on nutsedge either....


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## SilentH

somedevildawg said:


> I agree 100% pastora was big waste of time and money!! I'll never use it again!
> Don't say that! If you ever get sandbur....better get some Pastora. If ya ever have a problem with Baha'i.....better get some Pastora
> Gotta trust those labels.....if it says poor control, that means it don't work at all...
> I've found Pastora to be a great product for the grasses and weeds specific to the label, very common ones for Bermuda fields. But what I like best about Pastora is less stunting of the Bermuda.....that's an advantage in spring. Don't work on nutsedge either....


Hold on now! I'm specifically talking about Vasey grass in a Coastal patch is all! I'm informing people on here my experience with the product! What I'll add now is the rep for the company said I would get a 70 to 80% kill where all it did is turn it purple for 2 weeks and then it came back with a fury! Regardless what the label says, I went on and trusted the rep for the company! Plus other people as well and I am telling you it's a huge waste of money on Vasey grass for I experienced zero kill!


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## LaneFarms

I bought a gallon of panoramic from solutionsstore.com it was at my door in 5 days. This was the first time I had ever ordered a herbicide off the Internet and it worked out great.


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## SilentH

LaneFarms said:


> I bought a gallon of panoramic from solutionsstore.com it was at my door in 5 days. This was the first time I had ever ordered a herbicide off the Internet and it worked out great.


Well, I hope to have the same experience as well! Will post before and after pictures!!!


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## somedevildawg

SilentH said:


> Hold on now! I'm specifically talking about Vasey grass in a Coastal patch is all! I'm informing people on here my experience with the product! What I'll add now is the rep for the company said I would get a 70 to 80% kill where all it did is turn it purple for 2 weeks and then it came back with a fury! Regardless what the label says, I went on and trusted the rep for the company! Plus other people as well and I am telling you it's a huge waste of money on Vasey grass for I experienced zero kill!


Easy there silentH.....I'm not trying to offend ya or anything, thnk you may have taken my ! The wrong way. But I will tell ya don't believe everything them reps tell ya.....I don't even think Vasey grass is listed on the label for Pastora, it may be but I don't think so, if it is, it's only marginal at best. I've been using Pastora for about 8 years now with the exception of 5 years ago when I had a infestation of Vasey grass, it was very easy to see that the Pastora had little effect on the Vasey, it did however control the sandbur that was a bigger problem than the Vasey, once the burr was eliminated, I sprayed impose to kill the Vasey......once again, the impose is labeled for Vasey or I wouldn't have used it.....worked for me, like I said earlier, it stunted the Bermuda purty good but knocked the Vasey out completely!

Bottom line is you're right, Pastora is crap for Vasey grass....but then again it's not really made for Vasey grass....whoever told you that was trying to make a buck. However, once you get that Vasey under control, the Pastora product is excellent for controlling what it was formulated to control, since MSMA nothing better for burrs......good luck


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## SilentH

somedevildawg said:


> Easy there silentH.....I'm not trying to offend ya or anything, thnk you may have taken my ! The wrong way. But I will tell ya don't believe everything them reps tell ya.....I don't even think Vasey grass is listed on the label for Pastora, it may be but I don't think so, if it is, it's only marginal at best. I've been using Pastora for about 8 years now with the exception of 5 years ago when I had a infestation of Vasey grass, it was very easy to see that the Pastora had little effect on the Vasey, it did however control the sandbur that was a bigger problem than the Vasey, once the burr was eliminated, I sprayed impose to kill the Vasey......once again, the impose is labeled for Vasey or I wouldn't have used it.....worked for me, like I said earlier, it stunted the Bermuda purty good but knocked the Vasey out completely!
> Bottom line is you're right, Pastora is crap for Vasey grass....but then again it's not really made for Vasey grass....whoever told you that was trying to make a buck. However, once you get that Vasey under control, the Pastora product is excellent for controlling what it was formulated to control, since MSMA nothing better for burrs......good luck


None taken, I hope everyone posting on here want to educate people on this forum to know what works and what does not...Pastora rep steered me the wrong way and yes I'll check the label... That guy lost a lot in claiming what he did... Pastora I'm sure works well on burs which I have none... I have only coastal and Vasey and nothing else.... Anyway lesson learned to research more and here from people who use the product in the field... A hay hauler from Yoakum Texas was here last week and I told him my disgust for Vasey and I was about to say I'm hitting it hard with Impose however he said the word before I could which confirms it or Panoramic are the only herbicide to knock it out!
Have a great weekend! May you see and enjoy an amazing sunset!


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## SilentH

Update,

I have read the Impose label cover to cover... listed is relevant sections to applying on my coastal Bermuda patch... minus surfactant info


Soil moisture is critical for optimum weed control (weeds must be actively growing)
Rain fast in an hour however 3 is ideal
Best on post-emergence application
Do not exceed 12 ounces of impose per acre in one year
Mixing with 2, 4-D products could lead to reduced control
Perennial grass in bermuda pasture 4 to 12 ounces per acre
Bermuda grass may be suppressed 30 to 45 days
Do not apply to drought stressed bermuda, from dormancy to green up, newly aerated or sprigged fields
Summer perennial grass weeds are controlled when Impose is applied after complete bermuda grass green up at the rate of 6 to 12 ounces per acre. If higher rates are necessary to control target weeds, make a fall application before a killing frost occurs.
If a fall application is planned and the bermuda grass is cut for hay, be sure the target weeds have adequate growth before making an application of Impose herbicide.
Control of cool-season perennial grasses will be improved if Impose is applied with 16 to 24 ounces per acre of RoundUP Ultra
Established Coastal Bermuda - use 2 to 12 ounces per acre of Impose. Beware that applying a tank mix combination of Impose and RoundUP Pro on coastal bermuda grass may result in death or excessive injury.
Under Special Weed Control - To control vasey grass post emergence application of Impose at the rate of 4 to 6 ounces per acre after the grass has reached 100% green-up and is 3 to 8 inches in height. Efficacy will be improved with the addition of RoundUP Pro at the rate of 12 to 16 ounces per acre. Use higher herbicide rate as weed growth and density increases. 

My takeaway from the label and my situation


I am 60 or more days after spraying for my bermuda to go dormant, which will help it recover
Would be nice if there were more definitive about what combination of Impose and Roundup will kill coastal
Last bullet where the label says maximum of Impose is 6 ounces and roundup 16 ounces.... however then says use a higher rate of Impose for Efficacy.... (laughing but not too high were the combo will take out my coastal)

Very educating process to read the entire label, however trial and error of actual use will reveal the proper amount of each and that is what this website is about, so I am going with 8 - 10 ounces of Impose, (my pastures are thick with vasey) and 14 to 16 ounces of Roundup. I will post pictures of before and at 30 and 60 days out and then again in March, April and May of next year.... Hopefully I'll have a green field of Coastal Bermuda in May! Spraying tomorrow! Wish me luck!


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## Colby

What are you paying for on the impose? 
I need to spray a field and I'm afraid pastora isn't going to work.


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## somedevildawg

Colby said:


> What are you paying for on the impose?
> I need to spray a field and I'm afraid pastora isn't going to work.


Lol, you must not have read the title of the thread Colby, Vasey grass.....

First thing I'll say silent H, make damn sure the Bermuda is cut before spraying that round up! If its cut, then is the Vasey cut? I would leave the roundup out of this mixture if it were me.......it's just not needed to control Vasey. In the spring after a cut....then perhaps roundup in the mix. Just my .02

Fall is the time to encourage as deep a root system as possible going into dormancy, I don't like to cut later than sept 25th here and would rather not cut that late. If the field had plenty of N during the year then it should have time to grow (roots) adequately going into dormancy. I suppose the exact micro climate you're in really is the determining factor as to how and when but I don't like to stress the plant too much in the late fall....anytime you spray gly on Bermuda do so very carefully, immediately after cutting is usually the best method.....hth


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## Colby

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, you must not have read the title of the thread Colby, Vasey grass.....


I read it, what I'm getting at is we sprayed a field with pastora in the spring and there was other grassy weeds that came up after that the hogs are rooting the hell out of right now. 
I've killed 20 of them in the past two weeks on this patch. 
I asked how much he was paying for the impose cause I've never seen it for sale where we get herbicides. 
I don't see a point in paying 320 dollars for pastora again when it didn't kill it the first time.


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## SilentH

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, you must not have read the title of the thread Colby, Vasey grass.....
> 
> First thing I'll say silent H, make damn sure the Bermuda is cut before spraying that round up! If its cut, then is the Vasey cut? I would leave the roundup out of this mixture if it were me.......it's just not needed to control Vasey. In the spring after a cut....then perhaps roundup in the mix. Just my .02
> 
> Fall is the time to encourage as deep a root system as possible going into dormancy, I don't like to cut later than sept 25th here and would rather not cut that late. If the field had plenty of N during the year then it should have time to grow (roots) adequately going into dormancy. I suppose the exact micro climate you're in really is the determining factor as to how and when but I don't like to stress the plant too much in the late fall....anytime you spray gly on Bermuda do so very carefully, immediately after cutting is usually the best method.....hth


Thanks for the 2 cents! My problems are I'm stubborn and very impatient... I get along great with dogs! Other than last year, which was not typical for Wallis Texas, the average first frost is December 1st - 10th... (had to look it up) So, my hope is it will have time to recover a bit before dormancy.

I know a ton about fertilization and winterizing my St. Augustine yard in Houston, however I know nothing about how to do it on a coastal patch? I may hit it with fertilizer for the root system next month? Also, I have an aerator, would you use that being of spring? Thanks Dawg!


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## SilentH

Colby said:


> What are you paying for on the impose?
> I need to spray a field and I'm afraid pastora isn't going to work.


Here is a listing from the internet of herbicide pricing...

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/wg056


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## Colby

Easiest most cost efficient way to winterize your coastal meadows is leave 6-8" of regrowth in the fall. Basically don't cut after the middle of sept like dawg said.

Also run your areway in fall or early spring, just don't run it after you spray pastora or impose in the spring!


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## SilentH

Colby said:


> Easiest most cost efficient way to winterize your coastal meadows is leave 6-8" of regrowth in the fall. Basically don't cut after the middle of sept like dawg said.
> 
> Also run your areway in fall or early spring, just don't run it after you spray pastora or impose in the spring!


Colby, thanks! I should be good then for we cut August 27th - 29th. I just talked to Sanders, (formerly East Bernard Milling) and I am paying 275 per gallon for impose. I believe the boom sprayer I rent from them is 40 foot and that is a 100 per day... I catch grief when I picked it up in my Suburban! Oh, well truck someday!


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## somedevildawg

Colby said:


> I read it, what I'm getting at is we sprayed a field with pastora in the spring and there was other grassy weeds that came up after that the hogs are rooting the hell out of right now.
> I've killed 20 of them in the past two weeks on this patch.
> I asked how much he was paying for the impose cause I've never seen it for sale where we get herbicides.
> I don't see a point in paying 320 dollars for pastora again when it didn't kill it the first time.


Damn it jim! 20 hogs...wow that would qualify as infested huh.....

Any idea what them weeds/grasses are? Are you gonna spray the whole field or spot spray? I've been spot spraying with cadre some for nutsedge.....it'll brown the Bermuda purty good, hard to get them spot spray application rates right tho......been a wanting a high tech weed wiper, just don't want to spend the dollars...out of em and the only press is operating a full capacity at the U.S bureau of engraving and printing.


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## Colby

Yeah we are covered up with them this picture was taken Friday night after 17 hogs were already taken out of this field. 


I have no idea what the grasses and weeds are so I'll go take some pics this evening and start a new thread


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## somedevildawg

That's unreal....


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## SilentH

Colby, what time is the barbecue?

Well, I went for it today and sprayer 12 ounces of Impose and 16 ounces of a generic RoundUP on my coastal patch. I am hoping come spring to hit my pastures and hay field with Grazon Next HL and fertilizer and be done until mid summer rain depending...

Before pictures


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## SilentH

Update on my spraying in September. I went with 12 ounces per acre of Impose and 16 ounces per acre of RoundUp. I will post some pictures next week. Guesstimating I have about a 95% kill rate! It's a beautiful thing to see! You can't really see or tell how much vasey you really have until you see it all dead.

The coastal took a small hit but bounced back rather quickly where it greened up and had about 8 inches growth before the first slight freeze a couple of days ago.

My plan for the spring around March 15th down here is to hit all my fields grazing and hay with Grazon Next HL. In addition I'll be doing some spot spraying with roundup as well on the vasey. I do expect more vasey to come up from seed this spring, but the great news is I know what will knock them out. The only thing I would do different is up the RoundUp to 20 to 24 ounces per acre.

Lastly, I learned a big lesson to read the entire label of any product you put down, and don't just take the word of a company representative!


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## SilentH

Update, some vasey grass is showing it ugly head from what looked like a totally dead plant! Kill rate is fallen quickly to around 80%... I'm going to spot spray round up while the vasey is green and growing. On tough mean grass weed!


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## SilentH

Update on Vasey killing!

The brown in the picture is winter rye that was too pummeled by hail to cut or bale so left it there... As you can see, coastal along with of course fire ant mounds...

'll know more after the planned cut in 2 weeks... If it stops raining! 3.5 inches last week and 1/2 inch on Friday!

Will be nice to fertilize more and spray for weeds less! My goal!


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