# I feel I got scared I got charged by the acre to hay my fields not by the bale or ton



## Camelot (Jul 5, 2014)

Hello all.Getting charged by the acre ????? instead of a bale or ton .I was shocked to get my bill .It explains why the field was poorly cut.He even admit s his blade was dull and missed many spots that I could of got more bales. I got charged 400.00 for 4 acres I have 3 acres and got 90 65 lb bales. This his new business and I don't think it will last by treating and scaming people from Craigslist .Because they are desperate .Has anyone heard of this before?


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Welcome to Haytalk.

You really did not give us any information by which to calculate the cost of putting up your hay. Obviously it was cut and baled. I am assuming that it was raked at least once? Did the guy have to travel very far and was there any cost associated with that?

My point is this, if I had to transport or road my equipment 10 or 15 miles, cut the hay, rake it once or more times, bale it, and stack it, I would be right about where he was for price. Remember, this is in my area "here". Actually, I wouldn't do an acreage that small, it wouldn't pay.

I do not know of anyone who would cut someone's hay to lose money, and there is wear and tear on equipment. Let's not forget that fuel is pretty high per gallon as well. It sounds to me like you got grass hay put up on a small acreage for $136/ton.

Of course you could purchase your own equipment, pay your own fuel, maintenance, and twine, and put up your own hay on your own schedule.

You definitely didn't give us enough information to say anything negative about someone who was obviously trying to cover their costs doing you a favor.

I am not at all trying to be rude, just making assumptions from what you stated in your posts. Again, welcome to Haytalk.


----------



## Deamer1 (Jun 17, 2014)

Hi Camelot,

I read your question and thought I'd share my experience with you and others. I'm not saying my experience is good or bad, but it works well for our operations and the hired balers have done ours for the second year and are coming back for another cutting approximately the end of July. They have also offered to purchase all of our hay from any third and/or fourth cutting.

We raise a six grass mixture of certified seed for Horses. We have no clover or Alfalfa in it. Our original goal was simple. We wanted quality hay at a reasonable price. The first planting was the spring of 2013. We prepared four acres just like we would for corn or soybeans. The ground was burnt off literally, we disked it several times, harrowed it smooth, then let it set for a very light rain. We used a drill to plant the grasses using 7 1/2 inch spacing of the rows. That was the beginning of our Hay operation. When we thought we could get enough small square bales to bale it, we did.

2013 was the first baliing of this 4 acres. We got 212 small square bales. The grasses hadn't completely filled in between the drill rows at that time. Weight of bales unknown. We started with heavy bales, but adjusted the baler to lighten them somewhat. We never weighed the bales, but they were a good average size for small square bales. We did not bale a second time last year. My Costs for that first 212 bales consisted of purchasing the Certified Seed @ $90.00 per twenty five pound bag. Fuel, Grain Drill Rental at $8.00 per acre, (also replanted our pastures and that turned out very nice.) Other costs from the baling crew consisted of: .50c per bale baling fee ($106.00), $10.00 per acre fee for the mower/conditioner (excellent job) ($40.00), $7.00 per acre for Raking ($28.00), $6.00 per acre for Tedding (24.00) They charged $10.00 per hour per man for labor. This is what they came to the field with. Two tractors, two hay rack wagons, baler, tedder, rake, 4 men and a UTV. We completed the job and they went down the road and finished their day of baling with close to one thousand bales. Mine was not too time consuming. The baling crew loaded the wagons from the baler, we pulled them to the barn, and two of their men helped unload and stack it in the barn. The baling time was actually short as they really had their act together. Less than four hours start to finish and the hay was put away. Note: I lost 12 bales of the 2013 baling due to heat/mold. End result was 200 bales.

The first cutting this year (2014) The costs were: $378.00 for fertilizer/urea/dap/lime/potash, applied May 5th. Fuel to apply it estimated at $50.00. Baling crew .50c per bale for small square bales (452 bales) $226.00, $10.00 per acre for mowing at $40.00, $7.00 per acre for raking @ $28.00, $6.00 per acre for Tedding @ $24.00 Total baling crew itemized bill was $312.00 They again loaded the wagons, helped put it in the barn and were off to other baling jobs. Total time on site was four hours.

Bottom line on our baling costs after selling some of the hay and keeping what we needed for our horses is presently

$00.74c per bale. We have had offers from others to buy more of our hay. The baler offered to purchase any or all of the future cuttings this year. Others have offered to bring their trailers to the field on baling day to get our hay.

It has become a good thing for us. We do spend time managing our fields, (weed free) Studying about hay, (Whew!) and generally marketing what we need to. We don't sell at hay auctions, Nor do we deliver. we sell first come first served for Cash upon loading the trailer. The second cutting is good as sold if the weather is with us. The cost per bale will be $00.00c per bale.

No brag here...just explaining what we did in the midwest to get our costs down.

Note about the Balers. they are farmers living in the same township and haying is one of their incomes. They do a good job and I'm glad to have them here to help me.

Enjoy your week.

Deamer1


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I charge by the acre if I am doing it all. There is no excuse for having dull blades, but if it's a field I've never cut before and don't know what I might hit, I'm not necessarily going to keep replacing them thru the field if I notice an exorbitant amount of "trash" $400 seems a bit steep but what all did he do? I assume cut/rake/bale, but did he stack in barn as well?


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Pretty Buckskin.

Regards, Mike


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Deamer1 said:


> Hi Camelot,
> 
> I read your question and thought I'd share my experience with you and others. I'm not saying my experience is good or bad, but it works well for our operations and the hired balers have done ours for the second year and are coming back for another cutting approximately the end of July. They have also offered to purchase all of our hay from any third and/or fourth cutting.
> 
> ...


Welcome to haytalk Camelot......doesn't sound like too bad of a price, maybe a bit high, just call someone else next time.....

Welcome to haytalk dreamer, not sure I follow that math but it really doesn't matter.....


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I'll second that fuzzy math dawg, but then again, I'm just a lowly farmer. I'm gonna start putting up second cut hay at a cost of $00.00, cuz that sounds like a money making deal! I guess the mower, baler, and tractor run for free...


----------



## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Not sure how your market is out there. But I'd need more than 400 bucks to move equipment and make hay. We have plenty of small fields around here that I get calls on from new owners. And now that I've got soaked on a couple for ridiclous low hay yeild over their esitmates, I might have to start charging by the acre on small fields. Hard to charge by the bale for 90 bales.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Always good to discuss costs up front. And expectations. Maybe a 4, ac minimum? How rough is the field?


----------



## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

In our area guys are starting to charge by the acre due to the poor management (no fertilizer, weed spraying) by many land owners. The cost to cut 20 acres and split 10 tons is just not worth it so they've gone to a per ace charge for those cases. Definitely need to ask/discuss upfront how things will be charged - but the operator needs to make it clear as well.

Dreamer1 - you did all that (hay crew, custom baling etc) for 4 acres and 200 bales?

I baled for a guy last year in a tight situation ...... his poor planning. I charged about what it would cost to rent a baler - $1/bale (he got an operator and tractor at no cost). Foolishly I let him slide for $500 when I clearly baled more than that. Oh well.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

There are two things that come to mind in these discussions.

1) There always seems to be someone new to custom baling that thinks there is big money to be made. I have two friends who went into custom baling right out of high school thinking they had it all figured out and were going to make big money. Both sold their equipment to someone else who also thought it looked easy from the road.

For a small time/part time operation I would say the guy made money on the deal listed in the original post if he had older/paid for equipment and worked alone.

2) Growing hay and making it into bales are two different endevours. Each one takes some knowledge. Turning the grass into cured hay is not a task a person learns over night. We have to remember that we are not only paying a person for their time and equipment, we are also paying them for their knowledge and experience. We would not hire a plumber or electrician and expect to pay them for materials and a little money to boot. We are paying them to keep the plunger out of our hands and to keep our house from burning down. As in every profession our skill and production eventually determines our success and longevity.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Road time kills a guy.so a 4 acre patch would really suck to get pd for your road time.$400 is cheap if very far out of the way.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Here I charge:

$14/acre for cutting with a 13' discbine

$6/acre for tedding, if it needs tedding twice, then it's a total of $12/acre for tedding, late in the year and needs tedded three times? $18/acre for tedding.

$6/acre for raking

$9 a bale for round baling

So for a 4 acre patch:

$56 for mowing

$24 for tedding

$24 for raking

I baled a field today that I got 7 round bales per acre so $252 for baling.

Grand total of $338

EDITED for an error in math


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Here I charge:
> 
> $14/acre for cutting with a 13' discbine
> 
> ...


That field close? I couldn't/wouldn't do it for that unless it was right next to an existing field.....
I charge by the acre, but there is always a minimum, 7 bales to the acre would qualify as "good" hay for sure.......small fields take much more time than larger fields, usually a pita...


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Deamer1 said:


> Hi Camelot,
> 
> I read your question and thought I'd share my experience with you and others. I'm not saying my experience is good or bad, but it works well for our operations and the hired balers have done ours for the second year and are coming back for another cutting approximately the end of July. They have also offered to purchase all of our hay from any third and/or fourth cutting.
> 
> ...


Where are you located besides the midwest? Don't have to give an exact location but a certain part of a state would help.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> That field close? I couldn't/wouldn't do it for that unless it was right next to an existing field.....
> I charge by the acre, but there is always a minimum, 7 bales to the acre would qualify as "good" hay for sure.......small fields take much more time than larger fields, usually a pita...


Define close.

I baled mine last night, got down and hopped right across the road and did a 2 acre patch for somebody.

Farthest out of the way I go is three miles if I have time. I once went close to fifteen miles but that was for family.

The few custom mowing jobs I do I already drive past em on my way to one of my hayfields.


----------



## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

small fields are much more expensive to operate on. Even at an average of 20 seconds per turn you've added an hour of time and fuel with 10ft equipment.


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Just guessing that the OP did not get the desired response from this thread?


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Define close.
> I baled mine last night, got down and hopped right across the road and did a 2 acre patch for somebody.
> Farthest out of the way I go is three miles if I have time. I once went close to fifteen miles but that was for family.
> The few custom mowing jobs I do I already drive past em on my way to one of my hayfields.


Ya, most around here are 8-20 miles away.....cutting tomorrow 7 miles away, that's about as close as it gets, hay ground has been turned to rows, not leavin much available, I did secure a lease on a 4 ac plot this year right next to my other field.....couldn't make it pencil out if I had to transport equipment too far....



Lostin55 said:


> Just guessing that the OP did not get the desired response from this thread?


They will learn, There ain't no crying in the hay business.....except to yourself, when it does or doesnt rain.......


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Lostin55 said:


> Just guessing that the OP did not get the desired response from this thread?


He hasn't even been back to the site since he posted it.Jeeze why did he even bother??


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

How many days have we all spent more than 400 bucks on parts, before finishing our first cup of coffee? Too often, I am sure.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

To the op if you pay/charge per bale on baling there is more incentive to get all you can off the field. And for owner to fertilize.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hillside hay said:


> small fields are much more expensive to operate on. Even at an average of 20 seconds per turn you've added an hour of time and fuel with 10ft equipment.


Absolutely. We have a field that is 3/4's of a mile long. When you get in that field you are definitely getting something done.


----------



## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

For the guys who listed their custom haying charges, just wondering if you price your own hay according to those numbers too. I'd assume all the "costs" would be similar with the added cost of land (taxes) and management (fertilizer and herbicide).

We see the whole gamut of pricing here during the season ...... from low ballers who have a good-paying day job and just want to use farm deductions (selling hay at $60-$70/T) to guys selling nasty stuff (loaded with weeds) as "certified weed free hay) for well over $200/T. Just wondering about "realistic pricing".


----------



## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

I always felt the best hayfield would be one swather width wide and 4 miles long (no fences on either side).


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Draft Horse Hay said:


> I always felt the best hayfield would be one swather width wide and 4 miles long (no fences on either side).


I'd still find something wrong with it...empty trip back...that didn't take long


----------



## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Draft Horse Hay said:


> I always felt the best hayfield would be one swather width wide and 4 miles long (no fences on either side).


2 swaths wide so you have a return trip would be nice.


----------



## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

4 miles!!!!! wouldn't take long to get there and back.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Well if yiu had four swaths and double raked you would then have to and from trip with baler. Kinda hard to pu bales though that narrow. Rounds anyway.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Draft Horse Hay said:


> I always felt the best hayfield would be one swather width wide and 4 miles long (no fences on either side).


I would however take that over a 2 acre triangle any day


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Draft Horse Hay said:


> For the guys who listed their custom haying charges, just wondering if you price your own hay according to those numbers too. I'd assume all the "costs" would be similar with the added cost of land (taxes) and management (fertilizer and herbicide).


I do add my custom rate to the price of a bale. I charge $25 per roll to custom cut,rake and bale. I only take jobs with a high yield. I can stay at home and it costs me nothing.

On one of my fields I have $7 per roll in fertilizer so far this year. Another field I have $11 per roll in fertilizer. Hopefully that will be a better ratio at the end of the haying season.

Locals can not afford my hay and I can not afford to sell it to them for the local rate. I feed most of my hay and sell some to a friend who knows my inputs.

Last year I had to buy 200 rolls when I ran out. My cows made it but I was not a proud owner with their condition.

I am spending up front to get the maximum yield. The hay I am putting up is better than most "horse hay" sold around here.

I have concluded that I like my cows more than I like other peoples horses.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

And they bring in money which fewer horses do if one is true to actual inputs


----------



## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

I guess I was thinking of my own situation where the "return trip" (dead heading) is a time for my horses to cool down on the way home not under load.

I don't think I have any fields that aren't some sort of strange shape - triangles, parallelograms? etc Arrgh.


----------

