# Disc Mower vs. Disc Mower W/Conditioner



## BRS (Sep 23, 2014)

I am new to this forum and failry new to hay production. I live in northeast Ohio and for the last 4 years I have mowed 15 - 20 acres of orchard/timothy hay using a NH 489 haybine. Needless to say the 489 has had it's share of problems, one of which includes it's uncanny ability to plug up. Recently had another breakdown and it has caused me to to consider the idea of going to a slighlty used, or new, disc mower. I am NOT to keen on spending 10K - 15K for a disc mower w/ conditioner and new a tractor to power it - my current tractor is only 48 HP on the PTO. I think a potentially better alternative would be to purchase a slightly used disc mower, such as the MF 1329 or 1330, for much less. This is something my tractor can handle. My questions are: Would I regret NOT conditioning 15 - 20 acres of timothy/orchard hay? How much longer will the hay take to dry without conditioning? If a disc mower is a reasonable solution, is the MF 1329 or 1330 a good choice? I do ted my hay typically the day after mowing, so this abviously helps drying time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I thnk you're on the right track....I doubt you will notice any difference only because tHe disc will get the job done much faster......can't dry till its on the ground. I know nothing about the dry down or affect of conditioning in your crop however....


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

I think 48hp will be the deciding factor that you won't be able to run a moco.


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## BRS (Sep 23, 2014)

I guess the question should have been put this way: If you were in my situation(mowing 20 acres of grass hay in Ohio) would you......

1). Use a disc mower without conditioning and ted hay?

2) Find another more reliable sickle haybine with conditioner?

3) Spend the money and buy a used disc mower with conditioner and another tractor?

As I see it these are my only options. I want to be effecient as possible with my money and time, but I don't won't to make a decision I'll regret. Thanks for the help.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I choose number 2.


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

What do you do with the hay? 20 acres isn't much so that makes it hard to justify a lot of $$$ in equipment in my opinion.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

I agree with CRE10, the justification isn't there for spending money on a new tractor just to run a disc mower with a conditioner in it. Given that you are only doing about 15 to 20 acres, I'm assuming that you are not trying to do this all at once. If that is the case, a sickle mower/conditioner should be fine. They will plug up once in a while and can't mow as fast as a disc, but for small acreage, speed (i.e. - time spent mowing) isn't the main issue (in my opinion, anyway).

Another option would be to find a conditioner that can be run after the disc mower. They used to be more popular when hay was mowed with just a sickle bar mower. This would allow you to mow with a disc mower and then condition it afterwards. The downside is that you would have another round of running the tractor over the field (added time, fuel, etc.).

I haven't run across anyone in my area that does hay without a mower/conditioner, but the big farms and customer operators with use a disc mower for the silage that they put up. Since they don't have to get it dried down as much, not using the conditioner is no problem.


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## BRS (Sep 23, 2014)

Usually I only mow 10 acres at a time. How much longer will grass hay take to dry without a conditioner?


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## Supa Dexta (May 28, 2014)

What are your dry times now? Orchard needs to be cut pretty green or its poor feed once it starts to mature. A moco takes good power (rule of thumb is 10 horse power for every foot of mower width) If you simply get a mower with no conditoner, setting it to lay wide behind the mower, roughly 2/3's of cut width - will result in 25-40% faster dry times in itself, as opposed to laying it in a narrow windrow. If you plan on tedding anyways, I wouldnt worry about conditioning with your current acres and machinery.

Just cut once the dew is off, if there is any, and determine your ground moisture - if its quite damp, as it usually is earlier in the season, set the mower to drop the hay narrow, give it a few hours to dry between the rows and then ted it out. If the ground is quite dry to begin with you can lay the hay flatter right from the get go. Ted again the next day if need be, rake and bale once ready.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Grass really don't matter. Conditioning breaks the stems and allows the juices to get out faster. I'm with Number 2 as well....or refit yours (see below)....

I ran a sickle bar conditioner for years (still have it), a JD MoCo. I plugged it ocassionally, my answer was to weld a socket to a length of pipe in a T so I could manually back the rolls up when I plugged it. I could unplug it in about 20 seconds. All sickle bar conditioners plug if you cut aggresively on heavy crop, just the nature of the beast.

I keep mine atound for new customers where I fon't know what migh be laying under the forage. A branch ot small log or a piece of metal can be an expensive hit on a discbine whereas, it will basically pass through a sickle machine..... Sickles are much more trash friendly.

You don't have enough power for a discbine in the first place.

If you get another sickle bar/conditioner, be sure to get one with an SCH Double cut bar. No hold downs to fiddle with, sections are easily replaceable and the newer knife bar ledgers are roller bearings. I refitted mine to the roller ledgers and it takes so little power, I believe I could run it with a lawnmower engine.


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## BRS (Sep 23, 2014)

I usually bale on day 3 or 4. For instance, I mowed this Monday and will bale Friday.....it is late September. I think allowing it to lay wide makes a lot of sense, as opposed to a narrow windrow. I like the idea of mowing without constantly looking back to ensure the teeth/guards are plug free. In looking at some other threads, it seems like drying time on grass isn't drastically lowered with the use of a moco. Perhaps more individuals, who have used both mehtods over the years, will add their comments. Thanks.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Think back what it was like 60 years ago, disc machines weren't available then, neither were sickle roll conditioners, all you had was a sidemount sickle bar and if you wanted to crimp (condition), a steel wheeled (roller) pull behind crimper.

Ever cut with a sidemount? I have, thatd how I started out, with a used NH sidemount, even had a wood pittman arm and a NH pull behind steel wheel crimper and lets not forget the side delivery 'roper' rake, all long gone (and not missed either)

When I bought the Moco from the JD Dealer, I was in heaven. It's hard to cut dense crop with a side mount sickle, you have to run just the right speed so the cut material flows over the bar smoothly. If it don't, it bunches and fouls the cutter. Believe me, a sickle bar conditioner like a MoCo was a quantum leap for me and I didn't have to run a crimper either.

However, with any sickle bar mower, the material still has to flow over the cutter bar and into the rolls smoothly so the speed of the feed reel has everything to do with moving the material to the crimp rolls. Too slow and it plugs, too fast and you wind up with an uneven windrow. My JD is infinitely adjustable for reel speed and I can afjust the point at which the pickup tines cam over to the attack position to pull the crop off the sickle bar teeth.

It's a fun machine to run, takes way more skill and attention than a disc machine to operate and it's slower in heavy crop confitions but just as fast and maybe faster in short crop cutting and it yields a much cleaner cut than any disc machine is capable of.

Disc machines are about speed in heavy crop conditions but cut quality goes to a sickle. I know, I have both.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

BRS said:


> I usually bale on day 3 or 4. For instance, I mowed this Monday and will bale Friday.....it is late September. I think allowing it to lay wide makes a lot of sense, as opposed to a narrow windrow. I like the idea of mowing without constantly looking back to ensure the teeth/guards are plug free. In looking at some other threads, it seems like drying time on grass isn't drastically lowered with the use of a moco. Perhaps more individuals, who have used both mehtods over the years, will add their comments. Thanks.


I just did above.....

Additionally, I'm a firm believer in laying as wide of windrow as possiblle. On my Moco, the swathboard is always down, on my NH discbine the swathboard has the wide thin kit installed.

I want windrows as wide as the mower at all times. The only place I want a delineator different than the windrow is the previous pass. I have my machines set to leave a 6-8" bare path so I can place the PTO side cutting edge in it. Both my machines are sideswings.


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## BRS (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks ARDFarm......all good info and advise. I have never used a sidemount. I am still not sold on the idea that there is huge difference in drying time when using conditioner vs. no conditioner, especially when the crop is grass and is tedded.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Maybe I better clarify, by sidemount I'm referring to my 2 present machines, neither are center swing, both are side swing ot what I term sidemount.

All 3 point sickles are sidemount too, just the side of the 3 point.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I first started out with a regular disc mower but bought a haybine a little later because I was growing stuff like oats that have a large stem that have to be conditioned to get them to dry down. After using the haybine on grass hay like orchard, timothy, fescue and seeing how much better that it dried down I got rid of the disc mower. The stem on first cutting grass definatly benefits from being crimped.....it saved me a good day of drying time. Later cuttings of grass that are mostly all leaf probably don't dry much if any faster from being conditioned since there is not much stem to crimp. The haybine is a little slower than a disc mower but there is no way I would want to go back to a disc mower without a conditioner. For the amount of hay your doing finding a better haybine would be your best option......if your looking to expand and cover more ground then a larger tractor and discbine might be worth looking into.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I think Cline pretty much nailed it.

The first argument used in favor of no conditioning is usually "great-grandpa didn't need conditioning". If you are growing low yield hay and letting it get so mature that you can mow in the morning and bale by evening just like him, you can indeed do it the old way. If, on the other hand, you actually fertilize for decent yield and try to cut as early in the season as possible to maximize quality, then you're going to need conditioning (in Ohio) whether you run your tedder or not.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

A: option 3. You will not regret a bigger tractor. If it firlts the pocketbook go for it. Don't forget to deduct it when you do your taxes. Lowers actual cost.

As to mower a diskbine would be the cats meow. As you know the haybine sickle will get the job done just slower. And you may lose some drydown time with a disk mower but get the hay on the ground a lot quicker.

I think as long as you are happy with your choice up front you will be ok down the road. Sounds like you have already decided against another sickle machine. Flip a coin?


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

ARD Farm said:


> You don't have enough power for a discbine in the first place.
> 
> If you get another sickle bar/conditioner, be sure to get one with an SCH Double cut bar. No hold downs to fiddle with, sections are easily replaceable and the newer knife bar ledgers are roller bearings. I refitted mine to the roller ledgers and it takes so little power, I believe I could run it with a lawnmower engine.


Ditto on the SCH easy cut I think is the most bang for the buck of anything I have ever bought as far as hay equipment. Actually does everything advertised and maybe more.


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

I'd like to pose a slightly different question- comparing the conditioning job of a discbine vs a sickle type mower- conditioner. The reason I ask is today I was tedding hay for a neighbor following his discbine. In really light areas, I could easily see 4 distinct mini windrows created by the pairs of counter- rotating disks. So I guess my question is does this uneven flow through the rollers result in as good of condition effect as a more uniform flow of material through a reel fed mower- conditioner?


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

cornshucker said:


> Ditto on the SCH easy cut I think is the most bang for the buck of anything I have ever bought as far as hay equipment. Actually does everything advertised and maybe more.


They are actually about 90 miles south of me in St. Mary's Ohio, just north of the now closed Agco Plant where thousands of manure spreaders were born. I never could figure out why the OEM's didn't just switch to SCH and be done with it.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The type of tractor you have will be the deciding factor if you can even use a disc mower. If you have an overgrown compact tractor, I would not put a disc mower on it. If you have a large heavy frame tractor then by all means go with a disc mower. While HP is desirable, you need the tractor weight to safely handle the weight of a disc mower.

Since most disc mowers have counter rotating discs, the windrowing between each pair of discs in light crops is normal. If you ted it makes little difference.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

ARD Farm said:


> They are actually about 90 miles south of me in St. Mary's Ohio, just north of the now closed Agco Plant where thousands of manure spreaders were born. I never could figure out why the OEM's didn't just switch to SCH and be done with it.


You can actually get them as a option on Agco Massey equipment. We got ours from S.I. Distributing who are very nice people. Not really expensive when you consider not having to buy hold downs and such. We found that they will also mow in somewhat damper conditions (dew) than the other type and they don't plug near as easy. Also very easy to replace a knife section. The guards hold up extremely well and I also like the idea that when you replace all of the sections you just change the ones that were originally up to down and your guard has a new surface to wear on. Like I said before all positives and no negatives.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

There's almost no question that conditioning a crop will make it dry faster. How much faster is variable. 15 years ago you would not have considered a disc mower, it would have only been another sickle machine. I've cut 1000's of acres of grass hay with a sickle machine with rolls, and there is no reason that it can't work for you, so I'm going to go with #2.

Rodney


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