# Using trucks as tractors



## JD3430

I think this idea has been discussed here in threads before, but I cant help but wonder more about this. Always kind of bothered me how costly to own multiple tractors and attachments. Farming on a "one-man" scale not exactly a BIG money maker.

Most of us have a 4WD pickup. Many of these trucks have a PTO provision on the transmission. Most also have low range for slow ground travel if needed. Might need a manual throttle.

In hay farming, the PTO HP and hydraulic GPM requirements for a rake and tedder are pretty low. There is no need for a 3-point hitch if they are cart-type rake/tedder.

Also, its not like other crops where you're driving on loose/bare dirt, but driving over grass, in pretty good ground conditions for a 4WD truck.

Seems easy (for me at least) to see using one of my flatbed 4WD trucks to rake or tedder.

Surprised no one offers a PTO shaft to the back and a hydraulic pump/reservoir kit with 2 outlets for rakes & tedders.

Also, you could fold up and go from field to field very fast.

Best of all, maybe eliminate the expense of another small tractor and increase the versatility of your truck

Can't imagine cost to outfit the typical 4WD pickup to be greater than 10k??

Only drawbacks I could see is PTO shaft length from truck to rake/tedder being kept same as length to tractor.

Any thoughts?


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## slowzuki

There's not really pto or hydraulic reasons to not have it, people build trucktors now and again. There's one on Agtalk sometimes for example. Trouble I see is the tires, 75 psi street tires don't like tramping around in soft fields. Big low pressure tires don't like driving on streets.

Side by side with a small engine pto / hydraulics pack like the Amish forecarts has always appealed to me though. Slide it in the bed and head out to rake/ted. Nice suspension for the bumps.


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## JD3430

Was at a Deere dealer parking lot years back and saw a 4WD flatbed with reservoir tank and 2 sets of outlets plumbed to rear. In a hurry, so couldn't wait to ask owner what he had them for. That's what got me interested.

Ken, couldnt imagine the typical oversized 275-18 tires at 60-70lbs being tough on field grasses??? Maybe 19.5" 450/550 type tires would be.


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## slowzuki

The flatbed was likely the truck they use for moving equipment. Several of them around here at dealers so they don't need a tractor to lift a cutter bar etc. I've got a couple of outlets on my trailer pump so I can do the same in a pinch.

Pickup traffic is pretty rough on our fields, lots of places we can't cross with the truck as it will get stuck in 2wd. Was dry this year so could get around ok but a few trucks passes in the same area beats the plants down like crazy and can see the stunted growth the rest of the year.


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## Tx Jim

Way back when I was employed by a farm equipment dealer there were 2 different men that raked hay with a pickup. Both men lost pickups due to hay wrapping around driveshaft which caused pickup to catch on FIRE!


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## Farmineer95

Google REN Manufacturing out of Loyal,WI for an idea. They make a portable PTO, some with hydraulic capability.

Saw it at a farm show once, thought it was a clever but maybe pricey idea?


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## 8350HiTech

Problem is you can buy a cheap rake tractor for what it’s probably going to cost to turn your pickup into a tractor. Sure, it won’t go 60 mph, but it will actually do tractor stuff.


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## JD3430

Sso handy to have cab, HVAC, Road speed between fields.
Don't own a "family farm". Have 15-20 10-80 acre parcels to go between.
I already tow the rake & tedder to fields with a truck. Why not take next step and use truck for operating them? 
Valid point of a "old cheap" tractor to run rake or Tedder, but they break, need parts, repairs, shed etc. I would think the cost to make a truck into a rake/tedder "trucktor" would pencil over a tractor over 10 years. Plus the speed & comfort isn't a contest.
If we already own a truck, just seems like not such a big deal. My truck is practically 1/2 way to a tractor already: Diesel, 4WD, off road tires, PTO provision, etc


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## Ray 54

I have seen old Jeeps with a PTO on the back. Never saw anyone use it. But have seen the adds for all kinds of attachments to use a Jeep as a tractor,including a 3 point hitch. But I am assuming most have always decided it was not the better way.

In 85 there were some of the custom baler guys in the San Joaquin valley of Ca that pulled engine powered 3 tie hay bales with a Jeep. But never really took off, even with special goose neck hitches.

If you go to Farm Show magazine on line archive you can find a number of hi-bred truck tractors. I remember a list of tractor rear ends that would tolerate 40 and 50 MPH speeds.

Also check out the Mercedes Unimug from Germany. But I think more expensive than a tractor,but would haul a lot more tonnage than a pickup.


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## Palmettokat

Have you looked on youtube for such? Know there is at least one of large trucking pulling tillage implement. I would assume you would be running in 4 wheel drive, will there be any issue with it binding in the turns you would need to make?


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## stack em up

Don't you have a JCB Fastrac?

Some buddies of mine made a truck-tor many moons ago. Absolutely useless except for the cool factor.


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## chevytaHOE5674

I'd hate to maintain ball joints, tie rods, shocks, etc in a pickup truck bouncing around in a field all day.


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## stack em up

And as far as the not making much money on hay being a one man show, I’m just gonna say you need to quit buying, selling, trading equipment as much as you do. Might make more money. Just a thought.


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## Lewis Ranch

stack em up said:


> And as far as the not making much money on hay being a one man show, I'm just gonna say you need to quit buying, selling, trading equipment as much as you do. Might make more money. Just a thought.


Who makes money in the Hay business? Seems ever dollar made just gets reinvested around here.


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## swmnhay

Lewis Ranch said:


> Who makes money in the Hay business? Seems ever dollar made just gets reinvested around here.


if I didn't make money making hay I wouldn't do it.There is a lot more work and stress with hay compared to other crops here but over the yrs it has pd me well and wouldn't be where I'm at with out the hay in my operation.


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## somedevildawg

Wasn't that old orange tractor made to look like a truck....allis chambers, but it was really a tractor in trucks clothing? I've used my F350 for spinning fertilize plenty of times, so I guess that counts?


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## swmnhay

somedevildawg said:


> Wasn't that old orange tractor made to look like a truck....allis chambers, but it was really a tractor in trucks clothing? I've used my F350 for spinning fertilize plenty of times, so I guess that counts?


It was a Minneapolis Moline.


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## JD3430

stack em up said:


> And as far as the not making much money on hay being a one man show, I'm just gonna say you need to quit buying, selling, trading equipment as much as you do. Might make more money. Just a thought.


And your thoughts are ones of ignorance because you don't know what you're talking about. My operation is growing, and with it comes need for additional or larger equipment. What am I going to do stay with a 2 star Tedder and a 61HP tractor for 250 acres? I also had no one helping/advising me when buying used equipment. I made a few mistakes? Ever made a mistake? Probably not LOL. 
I've owned 7 tractors. Bought 2 that were duds, 1 that was too small since 2011. Big deal. I kept 3 of them. 
Weren't you bragging about owning 20 tractors at once? 
And why is changing/upgrading my equipment as operation grows and progresses making me make less money?


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## JD3430

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> I'd hate to maintain ball joints, tie rods, shocks, etc in a pickup truck bouncing around in a field all day.


Would think tedding and raking takes a grand total of maybe 2 weeks for a year of haying for my operation. Only driving 6-8mph.
Can't be much worse than a winter of snow plowing.


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> And your thoughts are ones of ignorance because you don't know what you're talking about. My operation is growing, and with it comes need for additional or larger equipment.
> I've owned 7. Bought 2 that were duds, 1 that was too small since 2011. Big deal. I kept 3 tractors.
> Weren't you bragging about owning 20 tractors at once?
> And why is changing/upgrading my equipment as operation grows and progresses making me make less money?


I understand upgrading from time to time, we all have to do it. It seems like every week you have a thread about something you want to buy. Buying equipment all the time takes money, lots of guys go broke keeping fresh iron on the place.

As far as my tractor collection, just goes to show your ignorance as well. I bought most of those as a rescue from the salvage yard. Couple of them I have cuz I wanted them, as well as the ones we have for the corn/soybean/hay/cattle. Plus the ones that were my grandpas.


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## Gearclash

Western hay guys rake and bale with pickups. So apparently it can be done. One thing to think about is cooling. Couple weeks ago I drug a tractor out of a field using my pickup. Just wet enough I had to pour the power on the ole Cummins to keep moving. Engine promptly ran hot as I was using full power for an extended time but barely moving.


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## Farmineer95

As far as dollars invested goes, I think a guy can buy trucks cheaper than tractors.

For example I at one time was infatuated with the side by side utv. When the sticker prices went above $10,000, I gave up on the iea of owning one. Fully loaded utv sold at local dealer for 24k. It was pretty nice with the cab, heater a/c,snow plow, tracks....forget it, I'll keep my ears open for a beater truck. I get a radio, heater, a/c,wipers, comfy seats,4wd, license plates to drive wherever I want, including through the woods and not feel guilty about a scratch. 
I see the AG world for the one man band changing that he/she has to be as efficient as possible. If we can use repurposed tools to save investment and still have a barn full of quality product or grain in the bin, that's the secret. 
Old fire engines can be had for pennies on the dollar for what something that looks heavy duty, depends on the amount of customizing a guy wants to do.


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## JD3430

stack em up said:


> I understand upgrading from time to time, we all have to do it. It seems like every week you have a thread about something you want to buy. Buying equipment all the time takes money, lots of guys go broke keeping fresh iron on the place.
> 
> As far as my tractor collection, just goes to show your ignorance as well. I bought most of those as a rescue from the salvage yard. Couple of them I have cuz I wanted them, as well as the ones we have for the corn/soybean/hay/cattle. Plus the ones that were my grandpas.


So if your "given" or "rescue" over 20 tractors that makes your business model superior? Couldn't you live without the rescue tractors? Wouldn't you save money by not having so many excessive tractors? Sounds like you're the one always buying equipment. All I hat storage, maintenance, insurance and fuel costs a lot and it's inefficient too.
I didn't have a grandpa or a pa to help me with buying advice, they're both long ago dead and weren't farmers either. They gave me zero equipment. Bought it all myself while living on bologna sandwiches and living in cheap clothes. Worked many 60-70 hour weeks to pay for business equipment. 
No, I had to come here for advice, so if I ask for advice here on a thought of buying something more often than others, it's because it's my only source of information. Most people are really helpful, too. Some just criticize.
I guess you can criticize the hell out of me and that's cool, but don't question my success/failures for trying something with zero help and only a few years experience. It's not always going to be a perfect decision. Nobody gave me a dime or any face to face advice. I wasnt born on a farm and I inherited nothing. 
BTW: had the same truck, trailer, main tractor, baler, tedder since 2013-14. I switched 2 tractors and replaced a rake this year. I switched from a haybine to a pull type to a front mower in 7 years. Big deal.

Hope your back gets better, too


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## stack em up

somedevildawg said:


> Wasn't that old orange tractor made to look like a truck....allis chambers, but it was really a tractor in trucks clothing? I've used my F350 for spinning fertilize plenty of times, so I guess that counts?


Minneapolis-Moline UDLX had a "cab" and a road gear of 40 mph. There's a reason they only built less than 100...

Our local threshing show has the cheaper version, the MM UDX. Not as fancy but still better than anything at the time.


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## stack em up

Not once did I say my business model was superior. I know enough about business that constantly making payments and interest is not good for it though. Yes, you could use a pickup for raking, I have a wet kit on my 85 Chevy K20. It’s slow as snot to lift and since it’s open center, you would have to rev the piss out of the engine to lift with any speed. PTO would be a different story. You would have to gear it appropriately to match your expected ground speed while maintaining that 540 rpms that are needed.


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## JD3430

Who said I was "constantly making payments and interest"?
Maybe same guy who says everyone in the east "holds hands and sings Kumbyah"?
I remember reading a post in the last year where a fellow haytalker said he traded and sold equipment, making profitable deals as he went to the point where he was able to pay cash and owned all his equipment. I've bought several pieces, used them 2-3 years and sold them for more than I paid. Sounds pretty smart to me. 
Anyway, maybe your way works for you and my way works for me as my business grows. I'll refrain from posting further ideas so you wont be bothered.

Good thoughts on your truck set up. Hydraulics appear to be the easy part
I can get an undergood pump set up with 2 or 3 valves and 11-15gpm. I thought that was plenty for the "momentary" or just a little more than momentary need for rake or tedder
I think the PTO May be the harder part


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Who said I was making payments with interest?
> Maybe same guy who says everyone in the east holds hands and sings cumbya?


If you're paying it all cash, then you're making more money making shrooms than you let on and 95% of the AG sector. And until you pay 20% interest on an operating loan, then you don't know a poor Ag economy.

And it's spelled Kumbaya.


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## stack em up

The other thing about the wet kit I have is it cannot run down more than like 7-9 minutes at a time cuz there is no cooler and oil heats up. The reservoir will actually expand from heat buildup. Trust me, I know.


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## JD3430

Didn't t say I pay all cash, either! 
You know what they say about making assumptions?  
Maybe I make lots of personal sacrifices to pay cash for most equipment? Or trade equipment responsibly? Maybe my wife and I are very frugal and responsible with money? Kids who work their tails off to get scholarships and work in their spare time and stay out of trouble? 
What's with painting this less than decent picture of my life? I've lived a good and respectable life. I dont judge you, either. I don't care if you have an old tractor in your bedroom.  You're the one who took the thread off topic which was converting a pickup to run a tedder & rake so I can actually *SELL *a tractor
Kind of the opposite of your accusation of my "*buying something every week*". 
Don't make any shrooms. I sell hay.

Thanks for the spell check! Tough to type while loading hay!

Not too worried about overheating oil since the remotes are barely used on rake/tedder. PTO will run the shaft

Having a bad day? Hope it gets better for ya...
Maybe with Al Franken gone, that will happen up there?


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Didn't t say I pay all cash, either!
> 
> Not too worried about overheating oil since the remotes are barely used on rake/tedder. PTO will run the shaft


You are getting what I mean. Using the remotes isn't the issue. It's the fact in an open center system, the pump is always putting out as much flow as it can. And the oil is always circulating, this building heat. Unless you plan on stopping every time you need to lift/lower and engaging the hydraulic pump.


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## JD3430

Pump can be disengaged with a switch, at least that's what I'm told.


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## stack em up

Mine was supposed to be able to do that too, until the clutch burned out.


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## JD3430

This unit uses engine driven belt similar to AC compressor
Guessing I'd probably install the type without the burned out clutch


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> This unit uses engine driven belt similar to AC compressor


That's exactly what mine is, engine driven pump with clutch on sheave. Worked fine till the clutch burned out and they aren't cheap!


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## stack em up

And I worked my ass off to buy those rescue tractors. Averaged 55 hours a week for 15 years on top of farming. They were/are my hobby.


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## somedevildawg

i couldn't imagine being on haytalk while loading hay.....I just don't get that. Like I had to tell my son the other day, "you and your wife need to simplify your life, that includes redirecting your social media away from your phone". I couldn't imagine having to look at my phone and respond to something someone chimed in about while I was swapping out a server or camera, etc. (what my younguns do) but, I know a lot of folks that do, but them sob's can wait......I live my real life during the day, all day.....at night or early in the a.m. I check in with social media. But I don't get a lot of today's trends....like tattoos, wearing clothes that look "worn" and "tattered", expensive energy drinks, queers, lying, cheating, stealing......I could go on and on, but I won't. But my family can get purty pissed when I don't answer the phone......I don't do that either when I'm busy


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## JD3430

It's called taking a break for a few minutes, pup. 
Seems purty easy to me...
Tattoos "one of today's trends"? My grandfather had tattoos from WWII up and down his arms....75 years ago.


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## stack em up

I don't think dawg meant the tattoos most Navy and Marines got back then, he means the ones now that are naked women, guns and other bullshit. One of the most active members in my church and one of the nicest people you will ever meet has tattoos on his forearms from being in the Navy. I don't know what they say, never looked that close, but knowing this man, it probably has something to do with God and country, both his USA and his forefathers Sweden.

On the other hand, my brothers sister-in-law was married to some window licker who decided he wanted to spend their savings on a sleeve (?) Something in the neighborhood of $17,000! They are now divorced...


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## Gearclash

I’ve wondered how it would work to set a skid mount power unit in the back of a pick up.


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## mlappin

1: visibility in a pickup would suck compared to just about any half way modern tractor ever made.

2: Tractors are built to last generations while pickups last a few decades at best

3: tractors out maneuver pickups hands down

4: compared to what even used diesel pickups cost anymore a decent older tractor could be bought several times over and left at each field


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## swmnhay

5. Drive shafts and universal joints run close to the ground and would be wrapped up in grass

6. exhaust systems are underneath and some run very hot.

7. Pickups won't go threw near as much as a tractor especialy lowland grass meadow that tends to be wet.

I do know 2 guys that use them but for certain situations.Rakeing a lowland grass Meadow isn't one of them.


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> I've wondered how it would work to set a skid mount power unit in the back of a pick up.


I saw a 27HP unit, but it was PTO only-no hydraulic outlets.

Also see the Amish use them to run 4x4 balers. The hydraulic outlets would use the same engine/belt driven pump & reservoir used for a salt spreader and plow system on a municipal snow plow truck.

I do see the limitations on the hay/driveshaft/muffler/etc. Thats a good observation.

Local Southern States had an F-350 sprayer truck for sale with a Powerstroke and it was outfitted with substantially bigger tires and ~ 4" lift. It had a straight-piped 4" stack to get the exhaust higher off the ground. Think it might have had central hydraulics, too.

Teddering hay already spread out by my cutter doesnt seem like too big a deal for grass getting caught underneath.

Raking teddered hay would be a little more subject to wrapping the driveshaft though.

There could be other uses: standby generator, logsplitter, other stand still tools that require PTO. One of the farms Im haying has a barn with an old PTO driven air compressor mounted to the floor.


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## carcajou

I have tried using a pickup on a wheel rake a couple times, found that it was too hard for the operator to maintain an even speed in the field. Visibility sucks and the cooling system struggles to keep up, This is on relatively flat land. Like running a pickup sprayer in a field it can be done but it's hard on the pickup. Not worth the trouble to switch to an open core radiator and put on hyds IMO. Old 150 hp 2wd tractors can be bought cheap and can run at 1400 rpm all day long using very little fuel.

A fellow custom op up here rigged a truck up to pull his rake, but used a tractor whenever it was available, guess he didn't like it much either.


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## Tx Jim

stack em up said:


> You are getting what I mean. Using the remotes isn't the issue. It's the fact in an open center system, the pump is always putting out as much flow as it can. And the oil is always circulating, this building heat. Unless you plan on stopping every time you need to lift/lower and engaging the hydraulic pump.


I don't have a dog in this fight BUT closed center hyd's are way more prone to heating than open center hyd's. Open center hyd oil being circulated with little to no pressure causes very little to no heat. Closed center hyd's that happens to have an internal leak creates a lot of HEAT. Closed center hyd system operating an orbit motor creates a lot of heat & I'll guess more than open center performing same task.


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight BUT closed center hyd's are way more prone to heating than open center hyd's. Open center hyd oil being circulated with little to no pressure causes very little to no heat. Closed center hyd's that happens to have an internal leak creates a lot of HEAT. Closed center hyd system operating an orbit motor creates a lot of heat & I'll guess more than open center performing same task.


Correct, a CCLS with internal leak is gonna be at full pressure all the time. OC will be at full pressure all the time as well, building heat.


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## r82230

Here is a 'portable' hydraulic / PTO set up , doesn't answer the exhaust running under the cab problem.





  








OneHP Pump PTO 2018 06 02




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r82230


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Jul 2, 2018











  








OneHP Pump PTO 2018 06 01




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r82230


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Jul 2, 2018








Then you also might need to consider eliminating the catyatlic converter on the gasers, IIRC they get hot.

Other thought is fuel usage, I think a truck would be drinking a lot more per acre than a tractor, but I'm just guessing. :huh: I know that I can rake, with my side delivery rake, I use less fuel using my quad (Suzuki 450), than with the Ford 2000 (about 32HP). I just don't use my side delivery much any more, having a double rotary at my disposal.

Larry


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## Tx Jim

stack em up said:


> Correct, a CCLS with internal leak is gonna be at full pressure all the time. OC will be at full pressure all the time as well, building heat.


I'm not trying to get in a urinating contest with you but your statement of ""OC will be at full pressure all the time as well, building heat"" is an incorrect statement. Open center hyd system doesn't build much pressure until ""oil path to tank is diverted" via a control valve sending hyd oil to another hyd component.. Closed center hyd's which I was referring to such as JD tractors utilized built from '64-'92 is different type hyd system than a CCLS system. If you doubt what I'm stating about an open center system not having much pressure just tee a hyd gauge into OC system & with all control valves in neutral read pressure on the gauge & report the psi reading.

Thanks,Jim


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## JD3430

carcajou said:


> I have tried using a pickup on a wheel rake a couple times, found that it was too hard for the operator to maintain an even speed in the field. Visibility sucks and the cooling system struggles to keep up, This is on relatively flat land. Like running a pickup sprayer in a field it can be done but it's hard on the pickup. Not worth the trouble to switch to an open core radiator and put on hyds IMO. Old 150 hp 2wd tractors can be bought cheap and can run at 1400 rpm all day long using very little fuel.
> 
> A fellow custom op up here rigged a truck up to pull his rake, but used a tractor whenever it was available, guess he didn't like it much either.


Everything you say is true, but if the trip is 10 miles with an old slow 18MPH tractor is a lot of lost time in the very small periods of good weather we have here.

I am trying to find ways to save money by getting rid of a tractor and replacing its tasks with a truck I already own.


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## OhioHay

JD3430 said:


> Everything you say is true, but if the trip is 10 miles with an old slow 18MPH tractor is a lot of lost time in the very small periods of good weather we have here.
> I am trying to find ways to save money by getting rid of a tractor and replacing its tasks with a truck I already own.


I understand the slow drive from field to field. We run mainly 40 series Deere's. My thought is, why not get a bigger tedder and rake. Get the field work done faster and then the travel time won't be such a hindrance.


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> I'm not trying to get in a urinating contest with you but your statement of ""OC will be at full pressure all the time as well, building heat"" is an incorrect statement. Open center hyd system doesn't build much pressure until ""oil path to tank is diverted" via a control valve sending hyd oil to another hyd component.. Closed center hyd's which I was referring to such as JD tractors utilized built from '64-'92 is different type hyd system than a CCLS system. If you doubt what I'm stating about an open center system not having much pressure just tee a hyd gauge into OC system & with all control valves in neutral read pressure on the gauge & report the psi reading.
> Thanks,Jim


All true statements, but in this instance, in a system like the OP would use in his truck, is a totally different beast. Ask any over the road trucker about leaving his PTO on and driving down the road...

And Deere's system on the 4020 was about the worst idea for closed center in that it had no unloading valve to dump pressure. So every Tom Dick and Harry used to cal and say their batteries were always dead cuz the tractor turned over so slow. If you would start cranking the steering wheel when you're trying to start it, it would spin faster cuz there was no dead heading of pressure.


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## JD3430

OhioHay said:


> I understand the slow drive from field to field. We run mainly 40 series Deere's. My thought is, why not get a bigger tedder and rake. Get the field work done faster and then the travel time won't be such a hindrance.


Thats a good strategy!

but have Pequea 6 star paid off and just got a Class 450. Would hate to give up on them.

Remember, its supposed to be time saving AND cost cutting 

My idea was to sell raking/tedding tractor.

Well, looks like this idea is not feasible without a lot of "trouble" 

Appreciate contributions and thoughts.


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## OhioHay

JD3430 said:


> Thats a good strategy!
> but have Pequea 6 star paid off and just got a Class 450. Would hate to give up on them.
> Remember, its supposed to be time saving AND cost cutting


I agree, definitely not cost cutting, but wouldn't a 10 star tedder and a twin rotary be nice.????


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## glasswrongsize

I probably don't travel as far between fields as you do, but I run an old Farmall H for my raking tractor. Sometimes, I need to leave it sit and go back and get wagons or a tractor/baler/accumulator or whatever. What I found to be most useful to my one-man operation was a hitch to go on the front of the tractor; I can pull it to the field at a decent pace, pull the pin, and drive back home at an even-better pace to get another piece of equipment. It would speed up your process to tote a tractor/rake with your truck?

There is a feller here that uses a truck to rake sometimes (ground driven/no hydraulics). Anyone that has ever seen my "operation" can tell you that I ain't no perfectionist with shiny stuff...but it would irk the crap out of me to have to drive over a already-made windrow with a truck; a tractor driving over a windrow is bad enough; couldn't stand spring shackles, exhaust, cross members, and whatnot spreading the windrow all over hell and half of Georgia.

Mark


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## 8350HiTech

glasswrongsize said:


> I probably don't travel as far between fields as you do, but I run an old Farmall H for my raking tractor. Sometimes, I need to leave it sit and go back and get wagons or a tractor/baler/accumulator or whatever. What I found to be most useful to my one-man operation was a hitch to go on the front of the tractor; I can pull it to the field at a decent pace, pull the pin, and drive back home at an even-better pace to get another piece of equipment. It would speed up your process to tote a tractor/rake with your truck?
> 
> There is a feller here that uses a truck to rake sometimes (ground driven/no hydraulics). Anyone that has ever seen my "operation" can tell you that I ain't no perfectionist with shiny stuff...but it would irk the crap out of me to have to drive over a already-made windrow with a truck; a tractor driving over a windrow is bad enough; couldn't stand spring shackles, exhaust, cross members, and whatnot spreading the windrow all over hell and half of Georgia.
> 
> Mark


Towing the tractor gets me thinking. I see a lot of people in other parts of the country pulling a trailer that hauls the tractor while the implement trails behind on its own wheels. It would potentially be a great time saver if traveling far enough between fields, however I'm not confident about its legality here in Pennsylvania


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## somedevildawg

Why you got to pick on Georgia.......plenty of other states you could spread your parts over  could go North and dump them on Chicago, then we could have Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago Police, Chicago M.D., Chicago emergency, Chicago Politicos, Chicago Homicide, and now Chicago Junk.....the rest of the country will be better for it......


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## stack em up

somedevildawg said:


> Why you got to pick on Georgia.......plenty of other states you could spread your parts over  could go North and dump them on Chicago, then we could have Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago Police, Chicago M.D., Chicago emergency, Chicago Politicos, Chicago Homicide, and now Chicago Junk.....the rest of the country will be better for it......


Thought about you today Dawg. Watched family feud and at the end they say "Made in Georgia"

Just a funny little anecdote from a guy who is literally bored to tears.


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## glasswrongsize

somedevildawg said:


> Why you got to pick on Georgia.......plenty of other states you could spread your parts over  could go North and dump them on Chicago, then we could have Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago Police, Chicago M.D., Chicago emergency, Chicago Politicos, Chicago Homicide, and now Chicago Junk.....the rest of the country will be better for it......


 I reckon I coulda said "all over hell and half of Heaven", but I reckoned it was known that Georgia is just like Heaven.

Iffn I'da said "all over hell and half of Chicago", everyone woulda thought it was all in the SAME pile.

Coulda said Kentucky or Tennessee, but I ALWAYS have heard the ol' saying use Georgia...don't know why and I ain't gonna start questioning the wisdom of G'pa's old sayings.


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## Tx Jim

stack em up

I agree JD's closed center hyd system had it's flaws but it couldn't have been all bad because there was no other tractor manufacturer out in frt of JD from '64-'92. My JD 4255 with over 10,000 hrs cranks just fine without destrokinng hyd pump or moving steering wheel.

I suppose I didn't comprehend the part about the pickup truck hyd's were going to be powered by a PTO. If I remember correctly from my truck driving days the pto on a truck wasn't designed to operate much over 800-1000 engine rpm's. I think an electric over hydraulic system similar to my J&I bale spear bed would be much simpler than a pto driven hyd system.

Jim


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## haybaler101

Yeah, grain trucks with pto pumps do not like high rpm’s. Forget to disengage and usually results in a thrown driveshaft or blown hydraulic lines. JD, if you want to just raise an implement, buy a 12V hydraulic pump like the Amish use, I know the raise tedders, rakes, 4 row planters, and wheel disk.


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## haybaler101

And a 20-25 hp Honda will pull a 6 star Tedder all day. You would be Amish with a truck instead of horses!


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## Swv.farmer

Go buy you a Kubota rtv they have hydraulic hook ups and I'm Shure you can get a PTO attachment.
The only thing is you can probably buy a tractor just as cheap.
Tractors are for farming trucks are for hauling.


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## JD3430

That was suggested to me by local hydraulic shop.
I've had trucks for snowplowing in the past that had a simple belt driven pump that would run all the snow equipment.
Can't see why a simple hydraulic pump with 2 levers in cab would raise/lower or tilt a rake or Tedder.
Engine powered unit on back that could be removed by loader pretty easy.
I think the thoughts of muffler fire (or in my case a hot DPF) or grass wrapping on driveshaft is enough concern to give up on the idea.
Just looking for ways to cut costs. Buying a new piece of equipment every week gets expensive! Ahahahahaha


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> stack em up
> I agree JD's closed center hyd system had it's flaws but it couldn't have been all bad because there was no other tractor manufacturer out in frt of JD from '64-'92. My JD 4255 with over 10,000 hrs cranks just fine without destrokinng hyd pump or moving steering wheel.
> 
> Jim


Massey Ferguson 1100 series tractors built in the mid 60s had pressure flow comensation closed center systems. Oliver 1755-2255 had PFC as well in the mid sixties. AC had PFC in '73 when the 7030 and 7050 were released. Only tractor manufacturer that didn't have PFC was IH, and they didn't get it till 1988 when the Magnum was released.


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## JD3430

Swv.farmer said:


> Go buy you a Kubota rtv they have hydraulic hook ups and I'm Shure you can get a PTO attachment.
> The only thing is you can probably buy a tractor just as cheap.
> Tractors are for farming trucks are for hauling.


Yeah, I guess. But I couldn't possibly afford one and they aren't street licensed in my area. 
I think many HT farmers live on the traditional family farm where you mostly stay in one place. Family farms are pretty much toast in my area because land prices are so high. Most hay farmers in my area are commercial farmers who manage land and farming for wealthy land owners. So we're running 5, 10, 20 miles for relatively small fields. I know the bigger guys out west run farther, but those are fields measuring in the hectares, so there's definitely value in moving large machinery. There's a guy who moved here from Oklahoma and works for a BTO. I talk to him a lot and he always comments how farming is a different ballgame in this area.

Bet someone like Deere or Kubota could come out with a truck like vehicle that could do lighter farm work like Rake, Ted, run standby equipment, etc. The newer side by sides are virtually trucks without license plates. The "gap" between them and trucks is closing. 
Would be interesting to see the gap between tractor and truck close more. 
I have an old road speed Massey with suspension, but it's much too large for rake & tedder.

The southern states sprayer truck I saw for sale was fairly well modified to run fields. Diesel, automatic, vertical exhaust, lifted and Ag-like tires. 
That's what got me to thinking about it.


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## carcajou

stack em up said:


> Massey Ferguson 1100 series tractors built in the mid 60s had pressure flow comensation closed center systems. Oliver 1755-2255 had PFC as well in the mid sixties. AC had PFC in '73 when the 7030 and 7050 were released. Only tractor manufacturer that didn't have PFC was IH, and they didn't get it till 1988 when the Magnum was released.


Massey must have went away from CCH's for awhile then because MF 1155 tractors are open center and they were built in the 70's.


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## stack em up

carcajou said:


> Massey must have went away from CCH's for awhile then because MF 1155 tractors are open center and they were built in the 70's.


From what I remember, the 1155 was a different beast? I only remember it cuz there was one in both-tech but school didn't have the books for it


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## Tx Jim

stack em up

I think with a little research you'll determine that PFC & CCLS are different from JD closed center system I was referring to. I know for sure the Ford 5610 that I once owned with CCLS was totally different hyd system than my 4255. AC 7030 has a gear type hyd pump as I'll bet other tractors you mentioned had gear pumps while JD closed center system I'm referring to has piston pump so hyd systems don't operate in the same manner. Stroke control valve will not control the output on a gear pump.

Jim


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## stack em up

Tx Jim said:


> stack em up
> I think with a little research you'll determine that PFC & CCLS are different from JD closed center system I was referring to. I know for sure the Ford 5610 that I once owned with CCLS was totally different hyd system than my 4255. AC 7030 has a gear type hyd pump as I'll bet other tractors you mentioned had gear pumps while JD closed center system I'm referring to has piston pump so hyd systems don't operate in the same manner. Stroke control valve will not control the output on a gear pump.
> Jim


Oliver used radial piston pump, as did AC. Fairly certain MF used an axial piston pump.

But you're half right, those tractors used gear pumps as charge pumps.


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## Tx Jim

Tractordata states AC 7030,7050 are open center & Oliver 1755-2255 as closed center. Yes piston pumps on closed center hyd systems require a charge pump which are normally gear pumps.


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## stack em up

Trust me, AC7000 series are CC PFC. I’ve worked on enough of the 7000 and 8000 series, plus owning my own to know.


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## Tx Jim

I'm positive you know a lot more about later model AC tractors than I do because a person could wear out a brand new pickup driving around looking for one where I live.


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## glasswrongsize

Tx Jim said:


> I'm positive you know a lot more about later model AC tractors than I do because a person could wear out a brand new pickup driving around looking for one where I live.


Yup... I bought a truck like that once

Mark

Had to stir the pot a little; sure would have for it to scab over.


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## somedevildawg

Me too.... A Mazda radial engine pickup, neat little truck.....seemed to go faster as long as you held the pedal down, didn't seem to know anything about top end. A good little truck....had a lot of fun with it, it had a backfire from hell if you revved the engine just right at a red light  boy was that a lot of fun  finally blew the muffler off, but I had some great laughs.....wish I still had that truck but I'm sure the rotary would have cost me a fortune, beings that's been 30yrs (or more) ago....


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## stack em up

somedevildawg said:


> Me too.... A Mazda radial engine pickup, neat little truck.....seemed to go faster as long as you held the pedal down, didn't seem to know anything about top end. A good little truck....had a lot of fun with it, it had a backfire from hell if you revved the engine just right at a red light  boy was that a lot of fun  finally blew the muffler off, but I had some great laughs.....wish I still had that truck but I'm sure the rotary would have cost me a fortune, beings that's been 30yrs (or more) ago....


So you're telling me that truck would NOT be a good option to try and rake hay with?


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## Farmineer95

If I'm understanding this thread correctly, there would be a niche for some sort of power unit with the amenities of a pickup. 
So far it has to:
Have high clearance
Shielding for the 4wd and drive shaft
Higher road speed
Visablity
PTO, hydraulics that can take rpm, or have it limited to Max of 1000rpm?
Diesel or gas with a governor
HP?

What else?


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## 8350HiTech

Farmineer95 said:


> If I'm understanding this thread correctly, there would be a niche for some sort of power unit with the amenities of a pickup.
> So far it has to:
> Have high clearance
> Shielding for the 4wd and drive shaft
> Higher road speed
> Visablity
> PTO, hydraulics that can take rpm, or have it limited to Max of 1000rpm?
> Diesel or gas with a governor
> HP?
> 
> What else?


And it's supposed to be extremely cheap. Otherwise it's just a unimog.


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## Gearclash

I forgot, but I've done this a number of times over the years. Works fine. The fluffer is ground drive so just hook up and go. The field this picture was taken in was horrendous rough, using the pickup was nicer than a tractor. The windrow is passing under the pickup when I do this and I've never had an issue with either driveshaft wrapping or exhaust. It is a dirty diesel with over size exhaust so that helps. The only real drawbacks are the poorer visibility and bigger turning radius.


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> I forgot, but I've done this a number of times over the years. Works fine. The fluffer is ground drive so just hook up and go. The field this picture was taken in was horrendous rough, using the pickup was nicer than a tractor. The windrow is passing under the pickup when I do this and I've never had an issue with either driveshaft wrapping or exhaust. It is a dirty diesel with over size exhaust so that helps. The only real drawbacks are the poorer visibility and bigger turning radius.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 46AD6EB3-0764-4A9C-AB09-82B29FFDE231.jpeg


And it only fluffs an 8' swath


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## JD3430

Farmineer95 said:


> If I'm understanding this thread correctly, there would be a niche for some sort of power unit with the amenities of a pickup.
> So far it has to:
> Have high clearance
> Shielding for the 4wd and drive shaft
> Higher road speed
> Visablity
> PTO, hydraulics that can take rpm, or have it limited to Max of 1000rpm?
> Diesel or gas with a governor
> HP?
> What else?


Barco lounger? 
Mini fridge?


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## Gearclash

JD3430 said:


> And it only fluffs an 8' swath


7' actually. The point is a pickup can do haying work.


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## FCF

While your at it include GPS with auto steer, WIFI. Surely there are other items this cheap machine needs. :lol:


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> 7' actually. The point is a pickup can do haying work.


 I know it can, too Gearclash, but want the pickup to do even more. Just seems like it's got a lot more potential


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## Gearclash

Circle C is rather fond of pulling a rake with a pickup. They even offer a gooseneck hitch for their rakes.

watch


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## JD3430

That's insanely inventive...but I always kind of thought this is how I envisioned a pickup to be used.
Circle C can do it with no PTO, which is even better.

Found out my trucks PTO cannot use its transmission PTO provision while moving. It's designed for stationary use.


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## Palmettokat

Bits and pieces: somedevildawg think the reference about Georgia comes from Shermans destruction but may be wrong. Just what I thought.

Have friend who this year began doing his spraying with rig in pickup bed. He was pleased with it. But has been pointed out here on speed would think you need a hand throttle for such as spraying for uniforming results. If I were to hit a bad bump with foot throttle could hit throttle heavy by the bounce.

Question on flat pulling tractor (assume that is what was being done) how does the front wheels do as to following the pickup or do they? If pulling tractor with implement is legal then maybe rather than full trailer use tow dolly. Rear tractor tires are wearing but implement connect angel to tractor should be better.

Here you can find plenty of pickups that are jacked high enough to prevent any trouble with grass being caught by any shaft, no idea how you get in them but a four foot clearance can easy be found.

No idea what a power steering type pump has in capacity but seems you could find a pump that you could mount a clutch type pulley on it like an a/c has so you could switch on as needed.


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## JD3430

I was just pulling some parts in a local salvage yard and the yard owner had 3 hopelessly rusted Chevy 30 series dually municipal plow trucks with belt driven hydraulic pumps, oil tanks and floor mounted 2-lever console. The hydraulic lines were run to the front or back for plow/spreader. Those set ups are a dime a dozen in snowy areas. He said he'd let the hydraulic units go for $1,000-$1,500. I'm getting the sense they cost about $5,000 new, but that's a guess.
Seems like you install one of those with 2 sets of outlets to the rear and mount a 25-30HP "Amish special" on the back of the truck and it's done. 
Probably a decent amount of time and money but for a "one-man traveling show", it's a pretty attractive alternative to a 3rd tractor.


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## Gearclash

I like the idea of a skid unit and/or an accessory driven pump better than a pto unit anyway. To me, a truck pto is like going back to the Stone Age of tractors, before IPTO became standard. That was what, 60 some years ago?


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## swmnhay

Palmettokat said:


> Here you can find plenty of pickups that are jacked high enough to prevent any trouble with grass being caught by any shaft, no idea how you get in them but a four foot clearance can easy be found.


Jacking up a pickup only raises some of the U joints not the ones on the differentials.

The help somehow got hay wraped around the drive shaft on my fwa loader tractor raking and thats probably 30" of the ground.It was a bit hot and smoldering when I got the call.


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## KYhaymaker

Tx Jim said:


> Way back when I was employed by a farm equipment dealer there were 2 different men that raked hay with a pickup. Both men lost pickups due to hay wrapping around driveshaft which caused pickup to catch on FIRE!


This!!

Your truck exhaust, cat converter whivh is hundreds of degrees, and driveshaft will be touching tinder about half the time. This situation is going to cause a fire at some point.

I wouldnt do it. I think fire is nearly a certainty.


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## Tx Jim

Gearclash said:


> I like the idea of a skid unit and/or an accessory driven pump better than a pto unit anyway. To me, a truck pto is like going back to the Stone Age of tractors, before IPTO became standard. That was what, 60 some years ago?


My guess is a pto operated by a gasoline engine power unit will not be very economical compared to a diesel tractor. Granted I imagine for enough $$$$$ a diesel power unit can be purchased.


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## Tim/South

Gearclash said:


> Circle C is rather fond of pulling a rake with a pickup. They even offer a gooseneck hitch for their rakes.
> 
> watch


Pretty neat.

I know a guy that pulled a ground driven hay rake with an ATV. He had a dolly wheel.

I usually pull a fertilizer buggy with a GMC 1500 4 WD pick up. Get to the field, put the transfer cast in 4-low, gearshift in drive, and fling it.

I try not to leave the CO-OP with more than 3 tons. I have read on here that I am an accident waiting to happen. Never had a close call yet.


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## r82230

Farmineer95 said:


> What else?


Working radio & A/C, comes to mind. 

Larry


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## Palmettokat

Tim/South said:


> Pretty neat.
> 
> I know a guy that pulled a ground driven hay rake with an ATV. He had a dolly wheel.
> 
> I usually pull a fertilizer buggy with a GMC 1500 4 WD pick up. Get to the field, put the transfer cast in 4-low, gearshift in drive, and fling it.
> 
> I try not to leave the CO-OP with more than 3 tons. I have read on here that I am an accident waiting to happen. Never had a close call yet.


I did this one time and the brakes on the spreader did not work...were suppose to. Almost pushed me into first intersection. Learned to test brakes on any trailer you don't know.


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## woodland

Palmettokat said:


> I did this one time and the brakes on the spreader did not work...were suppose to. Almost pushed me into first intersection. Learned to test brakes on any trailer you don't know.


Brakes on trailers????? What are those?????


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## BlueStarFarms

A few years ago when I was just starting out I had an old New Idea 12A ground driven manure spreader. I only owned one tractor ...so I hitched up the spreader to my pickup and loaded with the tractor. Worked well...plus I could ride along spreading manure in AC and listening to the radio. Yea it was a pretty fancy truck ...F150XLT but it got the job done and after cleaning it up we could go anywhere in town. Then an old farmer pulls in and asks "WHAT are you doing?" I just laughed and said "Howdoya like my $50,000 manure spreader?"...He just shook his head and called me a city farmer...which got my dander up. "So you suppose I load the spreader with the tractor, then hook the spreader to it, spread it , come back unhook the tractor and then go through the whole routine again and again??"...."Maybe I am a city farmer...but at least I got sense enough to know how to use what I got to get the job done"...He kinda demurred a bit and then agreed what I was doing made sense...We're friends today and the old coot seems to have taken on a new attitude. I have a skidsteer now to load the manure...but I still use the fancy F150 to pull it...sure beats driving out in the blazing sun on the tractor...And the spreader? It's older than I am and still runs like a top...(I'm 67)


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## CowboyRam

Dad knew a guy that used his brand new Ford 3/4 truck to pull a plow; royally screwed up the springs on that truck. It was under warranty and Ford gave him a brand new truck.


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