# Improving hay



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Hi folks, I have about 8 acres of grass, 5 1/4 of it is hay field with the rest pasture. My goal is to produce top quality horse hay. We only need about 300 small square bales per year for ourselves, so we'll sell the rest.

I met with an agronomist from our local co-op last week. There is a mix of grasses with bluegrass and some orchard grass, and lots and lots of red clover. Part of the fields were overgrazed in previous years. I'll have to do a soil test but the fields are definitely in need of a boost, so we'll be putting down 100 lbs urea, 50 lbs AMS, and 100 lbs potash per acre for starters.

I'm trying to figure out a plan to improve my hay. Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Wait for soil test to come back before applying fertilizer.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

you need to decide what you want for hay. If mixed grass is fine with you, then don't think of reseeding. If you want OG to dominate, the fastest way to do that will be to spray in Aug with RU and seed at the time appropriate for your area no till, then get rid of the winter annuals by spraying for them in the following Sept ( I am guessing for your area). Bluegrass is a pain to some but it really does a nice job of bulking up other grasses, just does not get the yield of OG or timothy. I learned the hard way that cutting low encourages the bg at the expense of the OG. All of the above comments are post doing soil tests and getting your pH and fertility right.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Fertilizer program is probably light.

I apply 225-300 lbs potash, 60-70 DAP for both alfalfa and OG. I also apply 75-100 lbs nitrogen for the OG. I am still experimenting with anhydrous vs urea as the nitrogen source.

Hay takes a LOT of fertilizer.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

weatherman said:


> Wait for soil test to come back before applying fertilizer.


We talked about that, and considering we need to get some nitrogen on it right away and the time it will take to get the results from the soil test, the 100/50/100 mix was based on the agronomist's experience with other fields on my road. We're trying to get things rolling and make the first cutting in a few weeks. Bad idea not to wait for the soil test, huh?


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Thanks guys - the agronomist said the best months for planting grass here are the A's - April & August. There is one section with is loaded with white clover and she suggested I do exactly what Hayman1 suggested, which was to kill it off and slit seed it this August.

And yes, she said the 100/50/100 mix was probably light on the P & K but we could dial it in after the soil test results and apply a second round after the first cutting.

Good tips on the grasses, my Haybine cuts at about 5" with it all the way down.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I got my soil test results back in 3 days from our state ag university, clicked the email option.

If you are going to put down a starter blend of fertilizer, I would collect my soil now then deduct what I had applied from the recommendations.

Have you decided what type of hay you want to produce?


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

If it is time to fertilize hay in your area I would go ahead and apply as waiting for a soil test could make you late on getting the fertilizer out and seriously reduce your first cut yield. Not sure if your fertilize recommendations were in actual units of nutrients or pounds of fertilize product. I would say that you would need around 60-70 units of N for orchard grass. The phosphate and potash will depend on soil conditions but it won't hurt to make a generous application now and when your soil test comes back you can figure out how much additional you need. If you soil test is done the way ours is the N recommendations will depend on your crop and not soil conditions.


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

PH is pretty important more than fertilizing. Imo


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I was told I should have had my fert down in early April, but with the cold wet spring it's put things off a few weeks. The grass is only a foot high, but with warm weather here to stay - in the mid to upper 70's forecast for the next 10 days - the grass should make up for lost time once we get some nitrogen down. I sure have a load of dandelions out there too, but was told they are no concern.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I have noted that dandelions do not stick around in my pasture. Cattle seem to keep them in check.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

The co-op came this afternoon to spread the fertilizer, so I didn't get the chance to collect the soil samples first. I'm still on the injured list too, so I wouldn't have been able to operate a shovel anyway.

The mix consisted of:

Urea 46-0-0 @ 100 lbs/acre

A Sulfate 21-0-0-24 @ 50 lbs/acre

Potash 0-0-62 @ 100 lbs/acre

They used a RoGator and it took about 10 minutes to cover 5 1/4 acres. Pretty impressive machine. Nothing like having the right tool for the job.


----------



## terraceridge (Jul 21, 2011)

SwingOak said:


> The co-op came this afternoon to spread the fertilizer, so I didn't get the chance to collect the soil samples first. I'm still on the injured list too, so I wouldn't have been able to operate a shovel anyway.
> 
> The mix consisted of:
> 
> ...


You can still take soil samples even after the fertilizer is down. Since the normal sampling depth is 6 inches, I don't think any of the fertilizer that was applied would skew the results.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

It just might be a while before I can do that much digging, as I got thrown from a horse on Sunday and got my ribs banged up pretty bad. Nothing broken, but it hurts like hell and definintely put some limitations on what I can do. I had a soil core sampler laying around somewhere at one point but don't know what happened to it. That I could probably use.


----------



## terraceridge (Jul 21, 2011)

I hope you get well soon! That sounds like a pretty rough accident, and you are right to take it slow until you get better.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

terraceridge said:


> I hope you get well soon! That sounds like a pretty rough accident, and you are right to take it slow until you get better..


Thanks. Yeah, not what I expected from a Sunday afternoon ride. I didn't even stay on for 8 seconds...


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I found some info from UW that shows that a mix of tall fescue and orchard will consistently outproduce grasses such as timothy and brome over multiple cuttings and seasons. Timothy and brome have low persistence with only 2-3 productive years expected after seeding and are pretty much first cutting one-and-done grasses. Yield is around 6 tons/acre with fescue/OG, they have very good drought tolerance, and stand a much better chance of offering a 3rd cutting. I'm wondering if that is consistent with the experience of some of you folks here?


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

That's going to be very regionally dependent.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> That's going to very regionally dependent.


Very true - what I was reading was specific to Wisconsin, and it's not a tiny state either.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I took my soil samples today. Wow that ground is hard - not super dry either, just really compacted. It has a high clay content so I'm sure that's part of it. I'm not feeling very optimistic about the condition of this field...


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

SwingOak said:


> I found some info from UW that shows that a mix of tall fescue and orchard will consistently outproduce grasses such as timothy and brome over multiple cuttings and seasons. Timothy and brome have low persistence with only 2-3 productive years expected after seeding and are pretty much first cutting one-and-done grasses. Yield is around 6 tons/acre with fescue/OG, they have very good drought tolerance, and stand a much better chance of offering a 3rd cutting. I'm wondering if that is consistent with the experience of some of you folks here?


 Here fescue and orchard grass will produce more hay with multiple cuttings and stand the heat of summer better than timothy but for me timothy will bring a better price when selling. Can't say about brome as I'm not very familiar with it. If you do go with fescue use an endophyte friendly variety such as MaxQ......it is supposed to be very persistent and not have any negative affects on the animals like regular endophyte infected fescue does.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> Here fescue and orchard grass will produce more hay with multiple cuttings and stand the heat of summer better than timothy but for me timothy will bring a better price when selling. Can't say about brome as I'm not very familiar with it. If you do go with fescue use an endophyte friendly variety such as MaxQ......it is supposed to be very persistent and not have any negative affects on the animals like regular endophyte infected fescue does.


That's an interesting question on net income compared to timothy. You're going to get more money for first cutting timothy most places in the country, but if you have a really strong market for second and third cutting grass, the orchard/fescue mix should really out yield the timothy and make you more money there. Might space out your labor a bit better too. 
[your results may vary]


----------



## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I like to have several different species. Spreads the risk around offers the customer some choices. But yeah, most of my timothy is one and done. Orchard I'm guaranteed two heavy cuttings and likely a third once in a blue moon fourth. Alfalfa we get 3-5 depending on the year.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I was thinking about maybe turning it over and planting a fescue, orchard, and alfalfa mix. Despite what the agronomist said about the advantages of red clover, I have no enusiasm for making dry bales with it, especially when I don't have a tedder.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> That's an interesting question on net income compared to timothy. You're going to get more money for first cutting timothy most places in the country, but if you have a really strong market for second and third cutting grass, the orchard/fescue mix should really out yield the timothy and make you more money there. Might space out your labor a bit better too.
> [your results may vary]


 Timothy seems to yield about the same as orchard or fescue on first cutting so there is more money made then. I am told here timothy will not regrow enough to make much of any second cut. Orchard and fescue I would say a good average number for second cut would be 40 bales an acre.....I can get a little more $ for second cut but not a whole lot. I have gotten a light third cut before also but that doesn't always happen here. Orchard and fescue will give more total bales per acre since you get a second cut and a little more money per acre but you have more labor involved to get that than you do with a cut of timothy. The other thing I like about timothy is it is ready to cut a little later than orchard or fescue and it spreads out the harvest some.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

So it's looking like in August I'll burn it with roundup & 2-4,d to make sure the clover and bluegrass is killed off, turn it over, and seed with the recommended Orchard/Fescue mix (not sure what else is in there, probably rye), some LegenDairy alfalfa, and I think a bit of timothy.

Nothing but rain all afternoon today, some of it came down pretty heavy with lots of lightning. The taller spots are finally over my knees now that the fertilizer is kicking in but it looks like the rain didn't lay any of it down. Seems some alfalfa popped up out of nowhere out there too. I'm hoping to cut about 1/2 an acre next weekend to see how my haybine handles it and see if I need to replace the knives before dropping the rest of the field.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

So this is the plan - what I'm going to be planting in August:

30 lbs LaCrosse Grassmaster (http://www.lacrosseseed.com/grassmaster-pasture-mix/) 
8 lbs Winfield LegenDairy XHD (http://apis.landolakesinc.com/Winfieldseeddataapi/FindSeed/Alfalfa/38.pdf) 
8 lbs LaCrosse Top Tim XL (http://www.lacrosseseed.com/top-tim-xl-timothy/)

This should allow me to produce high quality dry hay that is ideally suited for horses and yield a solid two cuttings ((with a possible third if the weather cooperates) here in the Upper Midwest.

Now I just have to track down some tillage equipment!


----------



## Liberty1 (Jun 17, 2014)

Hey folks, 
I'm in Kentucky and wanted to ask you about getting fertilizer on my fescue and orchard grass in between cuttings. The first cutting is done. I'm told I'll get 1 more for the year. I'd like to get 3 with the help of fertilize. What do you think. I've ready sold the first cutting of 90 rolls off of 31 acres.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Liberty1 said:


> Hey folks,
> I'm in Kentucky and wanted to ask you about getting fertilizer on my fescue and orchard grass in between cuttings. The first cutting is done. I'm told I'll get 1 more for the year. I'd like to get 3 with the help of fertilize. What do you think. I've ready sold the first cutting of 90 rolls off of 31 acres.


I cut a fescue field on shares. The owner fertilizes. We average 150 rolls on 30 acres first cutting. Usually get 137 on the second cutting with no additional fertilizer. He has his fertilizer for the year spread in March.

I am not sure how much of a yield fescue and OG will make in the summer. Fescue is a cool season grass here.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Soil test results are back. pH is good (6.9), the potassium is OK but a touch low, and way low on phosphorus. The recommendation is 300lbs/ac phos fert and 580 lbs/ac Potash, and to break up the application over 2-3 seasons with the first third going down before the last finishing pass before planting. Target yield after bringing the field into balance is around 6 tons/acre.

Here in central Wisconsin, we only plant cool season / winter hardy grasses!


----------

