# Who makes the best V hay rake?



## Cantrellc123 (Apr 30, 2019)

I'm considering upgrading my hay rake. 10 wheel is the plan but could consider a 12 wheel. I've seen a few different designs and what I presently use is a 10 wheel M & W brand. It has 4 tires, 2 at the back and 1 at the front of each wing. It's a good rake but we have issues with the tongue breaking bolts Occasionally due to somewhat unlevel ground. If it makes a difference we run 5' wide balers.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I would be looking for a high capacity machine....lots of good uns’, the pro cart from New holland looks nice.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

I just bought a NH Duravee 1020, had a Vermeer WR-V10 prior. The NH is built heavier, but doesn't turn as well in corners (4 tires vs. 2 on the Vermeer) and leaves more hay behind. I've yet to get the NH "tuned in" and haven't messed with it much to be honest. Biggest complaint on the NH is how slow it drops the wheels when approaching a windrow. I think the NH is going to be a very nice machine, but the Vermeer spent 20 years hooked to one of my tractors and was like 2nd nature to run.

I sprung for the 2 center kicker wheels on the NH this time, and am not impressed with how much interference they have with the main wheels when closed. Also not impressed that some dipsh*t installed the kickers on opposite sides and they wrapped the axles with hay so tight they would't turn within 300 yards.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I've owned a H&S Hi-cap bi-fold 14 wheel rake since '02. It's raked many 1000 's of acres. I like it's design due to the fact that the rake wheels face the unraked hay that form the windrow. I can if needed change windrow width simply by turning a crank & change raking width from 6' to 28' by moving hyd control lever. I've never found a crop it won't rake BUT I've never raked Alfalfa because very few acres of A is grown in my area.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The only downfall I have found with the hi capacity v rakes and for that matter any wheel rake is short crop with no underlying mat such as wheat and short alfalfa. When it is laying directly on the ground and the stems are short, the crop will angle when the first tooth on the wheel contacts the crop and the next tooth on that wheel will miss the short stem. In those conditions there is not much you can do with any kind of rake except harrow the ground.

There should be no reason the 1020 does not pick up as well as any other wheel rake, but crop conditions do vary from one year to the next and one cutting to the next.

Another thing to consider is at what angle the two rakes rake at. Pulling in the 1020 may make it more effective in those conditions.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I agree the angle the rake wheels attack crop is very important & that's another reason I like my bi-fold rake because I can change that angle simply by moving hyd lever on tractor.


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## Cantrellc123 (Apr 30, 2019)

We do grass hay almost always with a lot of rye grass for first cutting.


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## Cantrellc123 (Apr 30, 2019)

I see some models are 4 tires such as my M & W while others are 2 rear tires only. What difference is there between them? I'd think the 2 tire units would cross uneven terrain more easily, is this correct?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

My old H&S had a walking tandem, with the 4 tires, which helped in minimizing rake movement when dropping into a woodchuck hole. Great rake (the don't make the Hi Capacity, X-rake style I had), wish I could have kept it, but there's a limit to how many rakes a guy can have sometimes.

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I have a NH HT154 hi capacity rake, not sure what the equivalent present day model would be, but yah you need to keep the lift cables adjusted up tight or lock the center kicker wheels up before folding or mine gets tangled in the main rake wheels as well.


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

I run a Vermeer VR1022 Rake, with a Centre Kicker, that’s mounted on the tongue, and I’m very pleased with it. They have a 12 wheel Rake as well VR1224. Worth a look into.


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## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

We had good results with a Kuhn SR-50, equipped with a center kicker.

Best feature was the hydraulic pickups and all 3 arrays (left, right, and kicker)

were individually valved, so you could pick which one two or three to let down, or stay locked upright.
Real handy for roading, or going through narrow gates.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

If you tedder your hay a center kicker wheel is not necessary at all. If you don't tedder then a center kicker wheel(s) mounted on the tongue is far superior to the rear mounted kickers which typically can and will cause a log jam and "balling up" of heavy hay....and sometimes hay that is not so heavy.

Regards, Mike


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

Vol said:


> If you tedder your hay a center kicker wheel is not necessary at all. If you don't tedder then a center kicker wheel(s) mounted on the tongue is far superior to the rear mounted kickers which typically can and will cause a log jam and "balling up" of heavy hay....and sometimes hay that is not so heavy.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I actually look at this from a completely opposite perspective. If I don't use the tedder and follow the path of the cutter, I'm rolling two windrows onto the bare area between the two and the kicker wheels aren't necessary. If the hay is teddered, I'd like to agitate that center area enough so the hay isn't in constant contact with the same patch of ground and gets to air out.

I see a lot of the high capacity rakes running around with the center kicker wheels removed, now I understand why. I'm betting mine get hung in the barn next year.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Cantrellc123 said:


> I see some models are 4 tires such as my M & W while others are 2 rear tires only. What difference is there between them? I'd think the 2 tire units would cross uneven terrain more easily, is this correct?


The ones with a 4 wheels with wheels to font of wing flex and the rake wheels follow th ground better.

most with 4 wheels are high capacity that the rake wheel is in front of frame vs the 2 wheel that rake wheel is behind the fram being pulled.A lot less bunching with the high capacity as the frame work isn't in the way for hay to snag on.

2 wheel type are a lot cheaper than. a high capacity rake and is the only thing that is good about them.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

mike10 said:


> There should be no reason the 1020 does not pick up as well as any other wheel rake, but crop conditions do vary from one year to the next and one cutting to the next.


I completely agree. I'm betting once I get everything adjusted the way it should be it'll do a fine job. I falsely assumed that whoever assembled the rake had set the ground pressure and such, and didn't bother to check it before using the rake. I rake with an 87 PTO hp tractor that didn't know the old Vermeer was behind it, and the NH was lugging the tractor quite a bit. After a windrow or two, I noticed the rod stops which adjust ground pressure were a good 2" from contacting the rods - so I was basically chisel plowing and raking at the same time.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Here is how I adjust the ground pressure on the rake wheels on a 1020. Start with the adjusting screw backed away from the lift pipe and the lift cylinder completely collapsed. Now screw the adjusting screw up to the lift pipe. Once the screw contacts the lift pipe, screw the adjusting screw an additional 5 turns forward. This will extend the lift cylinder about 1/2".

The setup instructions say to attach the spring at nine links from the mount. I attach at 7 links.

I then open the rake completely and make sure the front wheels are pointed straight forward. I then take a spring scales an hook one end on the spindle of the rake arm and check how much pull is required to just lift the tine off the floor. I then move the chain mounting bracket on the pipe to a point where the rake tine will lift at 15lbs. Do this for each wheel Sounds like a lot of work, but goes quite fast.

Now with all the wheels set to same ground weight, I can either screw the adjusting screw forward to lighten the wheels or screw the adjusting screw back to add weight. I have found 15 lbs works well.

For the kicker wheels I adjust the idler mounting brackets forward to the kicker mounts to get the wheels up high enough so the wing wheels clear the kicker wheels when in transport. The problem with the kicker transport chains is you can seldom get the chains to hold the wheels completely up. I install bolts in the links to shorten the chains as much as possible and still be able to hook the chains on the bolts. Even at that the kicker wheel may contact the wing wheels when the the hyd pressure is removed. One thing to remember is to always raise the rake wheels before folding the wings out. If the kicker wheels are adjusted as I stated the kicker wheels will clear the wing wheels when raised so the wings can be folded out without bending tines..

Note; When I said the front wheels should point straight forward, I meant the rake wheels should be a position like they would be in the field raking.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Just a few general thoughts about V rake choice.

Get a rake big enough that it will operate at the width you want at somewhere around 75-80% of its max operating width. Then if you run into difficult raking conditions, the rake will still do a clean job of raking rather than struggle.

Since you have a 5 foot baler, be aware that some rakes cannot be adjusted to make a windrow wide enough to match the chamber width. The Rowse WR series is prominent example.

If you have a crop that is difficult to rake, there are some brands and models of rakes that have the raking wheels tipped out at the top. Those will do a better job of raking than those with a wheel that is square to the ground. These are usually really expensive rakes though.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> If you have a crop that is difficult to rake, there are some brands and models of rakes that have the raking wheels tipped out at the top. Those will do a better job of raking than those with a wheel that is square to the ground. These are usually really expensive rakes though.


If the 1020 rake was set up properly the wheels should be tipped out at the top. There is enough give in the bolt holes that when the wings are attached to the short tube at the axle the frame should be tipped out before tightening the bolts.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

mike10 said:


> Here is how I adjust the ground pressure on the rake wheels on a 1020. Start with the adjusting screw backed away from the lift pipe and the lift cylinder completely collapsed. Now screw the adjusting screw up to the lift pipe. Once the screw contacts the lift pipe, screw the adjusting screw an additional 5 turns forward. This will extend the lift cylinder about 1/2".
> 
> The setup instructions say to attach the spring at nine links from the mount. I attach at 7 links.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Sir! I'm printing this out and putting it to good use.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I like my Ag-Maxx 12+3 Y/V rake. The back width can be adjusted to make a windrow that fits the baler.

I can run it as a Y rake for square bales or a V rake for round bales.

Then, the thing I really like, is I can adjust the raking width narrower when in real heavy crop conditions to make a windrow that works with the baler..

Ralph


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Never heard of it, but I like it already.....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ralph

Which model Ag-Maxx rake do you have? I hope it's not the model similar to photo.

Ag-Maxx model in photo appears to have ""no hinge points between rake wheels frame & rear transport tires"". I owned a JD 704 rake that had no hinge points in that same area & the tunes on rear frame broke 3 times within 1st yr after I purchased it new. I traded the JD 704 for a H&S Hi-cap in 2002 & it's raked several 1000's of acres. My H&S also has capability to change raking & windrow width independently plus rake with one side of rake wheels pinned up


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

You can’t compare a Vermeer WR and a VR , they are totally different built rakes. I have a VR 820 and it is very well built. But I am going to a rotary rake . It will very clean even if the material is flat on the ground. The wheel rake does leave some in very heavy hay.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good to know Jim...

Ima have to buy me one of those damned H&S Hy capacity rakes like Jim. I don't think he's been dissapointed with that rake at all.....it sounds like it's been as good as a wheel rake can be. I want to be able to adjust the angle, adjust the windrow width, able to work with 12 or 14 wheels, have center kickers, and able to mobile down the road easily.....looking to spend less than 10k


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## Cantrellc123 (Apr 30, 2019)

broadriverhay said:


> You can't compare a Vermeer WR and a VR , they are totally different built rakes. I have a VR 820 and it is very well built. But I am going to a rotary rake . It will very clean even if the material is flat on the ground. The wheel rake does leave some in very heavy hay.


Do you see this with certain types of hay more so than others? We do grass hay 98% of the time and I've never felt or noticed there was a measurable amount of hay left behind with our wheel rake. Our wheel rake may very well leave some in very heavy hay-our first cutting the grass, but I've probably just not made a hard mental note of it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My H&S rake has served me well. If I was going to buy a new rake I'd seriously look at the style similar to H&S HDX14 or Kuhn SR800


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> I want to be able to adjust the angle, adjust the windrow width, able to work with 12 or 14 wheels, have center kickers, and able to mobile down the road easily.....looking to spend less than 10k


You left out one thing...."comes with a well heeled operator that speaks English".

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol. I can even play charades if I have too


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> Ralph
> 
> Which model Ag-Maxx rake do you have? I hope it's not the model similar to photo.
> 
> Ag-Maxx model in photo appears to have ""no hinge points between rake wheels frame & rear transport tires"". I owned a JD 704 rake that had no hinge points in that same area & the tunes on rear frame broke 3 times within 1st yr after I purchased it new. I traded the JD 704 for a H&S Hi-cap in 2002 & it's raked several 1000's of acres. My H&S also has capability to change raking & windrow width independently plus rake with one side of rake wheels pinned up


It is the "12+3".

There is a hinge point right in front of the back frame. Also, each wheel is individually sprung and can float. I have had to replace a few springs over the years. Never had a wheel or tine break.

Ralph


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ralph

Your Ag-Maxx rake sounds as if it's similar in design to my H&S rake. I can adjust windrow width by turning a crank on the rear of rake frame. I couldn't determine from Ag-Maxx photo what method adjusts your rakes windrow width could you please explain the process?

Thanks, Jim


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

somedevildawg said:


> Good to know Jim...
> 
> Ima have to buy me one of those damned H&S Hy capacity rakes like Jim. I don't think he's been dissapointed with that rake at all.....it sounds like it's been as good as a wheel rake can be. I want to be able to adjust the angle, adjust the windrow width, able to work with 12 or 14 wheels, have center kickers, and able to mobile down the road easily.....looking to spend less than 10k


Kinda' wish I could have kept my H&S Hi Cap 15 wheeler. It definitely had it's place in the 'tool box' that Vol speaks of. They don't make the one I had any more, but I think you will be look at used if your looking to spend more than $10K. I got $11 on my trade-in, so I imagine it was marked up from there. 

Larry

PS I know where there is a twin of my previous rake, owner passed away. Will be sold someday, problem rake was 'rode hard and put way wet'. I really liked the owner, but man was he hard on equipment. JD dealership, kept a glass door on hand just for his tractor even.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ya, I'm n No rush....I was looking for one when the season started and I'm still looking for one! I woulda give you a nice crisp $20 for that rake and bought you lunch just to "sweeten the pot" 

I think it will be the H&S....maybe the Kuhn or possibly something else but it's gonna need to be in that 10k range....ain't gonna spend any more than that ifn I can help it!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> Ralph
> 
> Your Ag-Maxx rake sounds as if it's similar in design to my H&S rake. I can adjust windrow width by turning a crank on the rear of rake frame. I couldn't determine from Ag-Maxx photo what method adjusts your rakes windrow width could you please explain the process?
> 
> Thanks, Jim


The output width is set by the frame ratchet at the top of the rear frame. I have mine set at just shy of the pickup width and stays fixed.

The raking width is set by the hydraulic fold cylinder. I tweak this to adjust for crop density.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ralph

I viewed rake photo again & see the ratchet jack you referred to.

Thanks for your reply, Jim


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I hunted for one of those H&S rakes never found one in driving range. I did find a SR300 Kuhn 12 wheel and in good grass it will put a pile 4 feet wide and over 2 feet high without plugging or dragging. I am planning to add 2 more wheels for light or junk hay cause every acre can't make high yields you know.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

mike10 said:


> Here is how I adjust the ground pressure on the rake wheels on a 1020. Start with the adjusting screw backed away from the lift pipe and the lift cylinder completely collapsed. Now screw the adjusting screw up to the lift pipe. Once the screw contacts the lift pipe, screw the adjusting screw an additional 5 turns forward. This will extend the lift cylinder about 1/2".
> 
> The setup instructions say to attach the spring at nine links from the mount. I attach at 7 links.
> 
> ...


Thank you again for this, Mike. I adjusted the rake earlier using your procedure and it's a night and day difference. Mine must have been assembled on Monday morning or Friday afternoon.

Other than adjusting the two return springs, have you found any way to help the rake drop faster? Mine takes way too long to drop when heading into a windrow compared to my old rake.

Thanks again!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Just a thought but I noticed from viewing 1020 parts catalog that each hyd male tip has a copper washer between hose & male fitting. I wonder if these washers are restrictor washers that contain a hole that could possibly be enlarged a little to enable cylinder rod to move a little faster.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> Just a thought but I noticed from viewing 1020 parts catalog that each hyd male tip has a copper washer between hose & male fitting. I wonder if these washers are restrictor washers that contain a hole that could possibly be enlarged a little to enable cylinder rod to move a little faster.


That's a good point - thank you, Sir. It raises plenty fast, just doesn't float down fast enough. I've seen a few that folks have added a downpressure hose to the lift cylinders, but I'd like to avoid that if possible.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Tightwad said:


> That's a good point - thank you, Sir. It raises plenty fast, just doesn't float down fast enough. * I've seen a few that folks have added a downpressure hose to the lift cylinders*, but I'd like to avoid that if possible.


I take it this rake has one way cylinders for lift? If so, that is why they are slow. My Rowse is the same way. I really don't like it as the wheels drop too slowly most of the time, and especially in cold weather. One of my many to do projects is make it a 2 way system.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Making the rake lift cylinders double acting is the only way to make them drop faster. Not enough weight to push the oil back to the tractor fast enough.

I would think an additional heavy spring would be a better route to go. I am not to fond of having down pressure against the light pipe and adjusting crank. I guess to get around that problem you could use stop blocks on the cylinder rod so the pressure is against the cylinder rod instead of the linkage. Just thinking out loud.


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## Tightwad (May 29, 2016)

mike10 said:


> Making the rake lift cylinders double acting is the only way to make them drop faster. Not enough weight to push the oil back to the tractor fast enough.
> 
> I would think an additional heavy spring would be a better route to go. I am not to fond of having down pressure against the light pipe and adjusting crank. I guess to get around that problem you could use stop blocks on the cylinder rod so the pressure is against the cylinder rod instead of the linkage. Just thinking out loud.


Thank you, Sir!


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Best v rake..

Locally built roller bar. (You didnt specify anything else).





 They make some serious gear

https://www.berrimahayrakes.com.au/


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