# More hay truck questions



## JD3430

Question: What truck is more maneuverable?

1: Typical twin screw tractor trailer with a 50' trailer or
2. 10 wheel straight tandem (10 wheeler) truck w/ 30' flatbed, pulling 20' bumper pull trailer?
When I say maneuverable, I mean like turning out of a road 90* onto a main road and not turning into embankments, knocking over pillars, mailboxes, etc.

Want to make a move on transporting hay.

22 bales per load is too slow and time consuming.


----------



## sethd11

It's really what you can get cheap. Straight truck with a big heavy pintle tandem would be nice. Step decks and tandem tractors can be had cheaper. 
Other problem is in my area straight trucks are under powered. I geuss you could convert an old six wheeler.

Or if you were super awesome. Buy an old Pete or k Whopper and extend the frame and put a sweet flatbed and put a heavy hitch on it. Then tow maybe a 30-35 foot flatbed with 19.5 or 22.5 low pros.
Depends how motivated you are


----------



## danwi

A short day cab tractor will turn shorter then a tandem with a 30 ft bed but that would depend on where the axles are set. What about getting a 48 ft straight flatbed for the semi with a sliding tandem that you could shorten up for getting in and out of fields?


----------



## JD3430

I was considering this truck. It's pretty clean with relatively low hours. 
It's 2005 IH tandem AWD with a MAXX force 9L diesel @ 310HP, Allison 3500 auto.
Perfect for my short hauls. I don't do any long hauling. 
I was thinking of lengthening frame to take a 30' bed (or maybe 35'?)
It already has air to the rear. I would extend the air lines to the back for a 25' bumper pull trailer for the bigger fields, where I could carry 40 bales.
For my smaller, poor access fields, I would just use the 30' truck alone and haul 22 bales.
I also think it would be a great truck for square bales when/if I move into a big square baler.

Of course I could also make it into a road tractor and pull a 45' trailer with it.
If I went that route, I could also buy a dump trailer and use it as a semi dump truck.


----------



## sethd11

Could work. AWD is really nice to have in an emergency, especially if your a one man show. I have pulled heavy trailers through fields here without an issue ever. 85k full loaded corn trailers and what not. And hay loads too. Just have power divider on truck.
Flatbed truck/trailer is a lot more versatile than a standard tractor truck.
I'd roll with that setup and get her put together before hay season.


----------



## sethd11

And 2005 has no really bad emissions. I think just an egr on that max force.. 
No exhaust shit on it.
2007 and up were terrible at the township.
Actually come to think of it. I thought you could still got a 466/530 in those trucks In 2005. We have an 2005 @the township with a 466e


----------



## JD3430

sethd11 said:


> Could work. AWD is really nice to have in an emergency, especially if your a one man show. I have pulled heavy trailers through fields here without an issue ever. 85k full loaded corn trailers and what not. And hay loads too. Just have power divider on truck.
> Flatbed truck/trailer is a lot more versatile than a standard tractor truck.
> I'd roll with that setup and get her put together before hay season.


It all comes down to cost and maneuverability. I'm afraid the AWD front axle won't cut as tight of a turn as a non-drive front axle. I owned an IH AWD and it actually had a pretty decent turn radius.

As far as to go straight truck or road tractor, I really don't know what will work better and once the truck is built, it's way too expensive to reverse.

Since I'm of limited funds, I was thinking it would cost about 15K to lengthen to a 30' straight truck. Then as funds allow, purchase a used air brake trailer for maybe 7K?? So that's 22K in modifications. 
If I went the road tractor route, I'd probably have to shorten the truck and put a 5th wheel on it. I'm guessing that would cost like 3-5K, then buy a used trailer for maybe 12-15K?

Tractor/trailer route is cheaper, but all the work/money has to come at once. 
Straight truck & trailer allows money to be dispersed over a little more time, and I can begin hauling 22 round bales immediately with it.


----------



## woodland

If you did the tractor/trailer option you could try not shortening the tractor and see if it is ok or not. It wouldn’t take much to mount a fifth wheel and move your hook ups. Could you find someone who has a trailer like you’re thinking off and see how the unit fits out of a tight approach possibly? AWD would help immensely.......does it have full locking diffs too?


----------



## 8350HiTech

15k for a hay trailer? Should come up with something serviceable for half if not less.


----------



## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> 15k for a hay trailer? Should come up with something serviceable for half if not less.


I can. Note I said "12-15 K". I always factor a little high knowing that it could need tires, brakes or other repairs.
I was thinking of aluminum trailer because it's not very high HP for a road tractor. I didn't want to lose a lot of GCWR in an old, heavy steel trailer. 
You can make some of the cost back of a efficient aluminum trailer is lower registration fees, too.
Registration fee for TT in PA is like $3,800


----------



## JD3430

woodland said:


> If you did the tractor/trailer option you could try not shortening the tractor and see if it is ok or not. It wouldn't take much to mount a fifth wheel and move your hook ups. Could you find someone who has a trailer like you're thinking off and see how the unit fits out of a tight approach possibly? AWD would help immensely.......does it have full locking diffs too?


Yes, I thought of that, but I was thinking a "long" tractor with hitch set back and 4WD would have bad maneuverability and maneuverability is paramount.


----------



## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> I can. Note I said "12-15 K". I always factor a little high knowing that it could need tires, brakes or other repairs.
> I was thinking of aluminum trailer because it's not very high HP for a road tractor. I didn't want to lose a lot of GCWR in an old, heavy steel trailer.
> You can make some of the cost back of a efficient aluminum trailer is lower registration fees, too.
> Registration fee for TT in PA is like $3,800


Sure but you're talking about the upfront investment being higher. Buy a steel one. Less upfront. Want aluminum later, get one.


----------



## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> Sure but you're talking about the upfront investment being higher. Buy a steel one. Less upfront. Want aluminum later, get one.


Ok, ya got me, but I still don't know what would be better 30' straight w/trailer or just a tractor & 50' trailer.
Many of my fields don't have easy egress.
I'm leaning towards the 30' straight truck. Bring trailer for easy egress fields.


----------



## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> Ok, ya got me, but I still don't know what would be better 30' straight w/trailer or just a tractor & 50' trailer.
> Many of my fields don't have easy egress.
> I'm leaning towards the 30' straight truck. Bring trailer for easy egress fields.


I hate to dodge the question but you've been in and out of these fields and the rest of us haven't. And I know you have plenty of experience behind the wheel of a big truck so it seems like you're far and away best qualified to answer which rig will work.


----------



## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> I hate to dodge the question but you've been in and out of these fields and the rest of us haven't. And I know you have plenty of experience behind the wheel of a big truck so it seems like you're far and away best qualified to answer which rig will work.


Yeah, but most of my miles are a fairly short triable dump.
Not many behind a tractor trailer!!

On another note: I saw a really nice 30+ foot straight truck pulling a 25' trailer. It was really a nice set up.


----------



## JD3430

woodland said:


> If you did the tractor/trailer option you could try not shortening the tractor and see if it is ok or not. It wouldn't take much to mount a fifth wheel and move your hook ups. Could you find someone who has a trailer like you're thinking off and see how the unit fits out of a tight approach possibly? AWD would help immensely.......does it have full locking diffs too?


Yes has full lockers. 
If I mounted 5th wheel plate over the tandems in their existing position and it was too far back, I'd be worried that if I slide the tandems up, another 5th wheel mounting would be too many holes drilled in frame??? Probably not, but don't want to ruin anything...


----------



## IH 1586

JD3430 said:


> Yeah, but most of my miles are a fairly short triable dump.
> Not many behind a tractor trailer!!
> 
> On another note: I saw a really nice 30+ foot straight truck pulling a 25' trailer. It was really a nice set up.


Do you know of a trucking company or individual that has different examples of the setups that your thinking about. Paying mileage and doing several dry runs will be considerably cheaper than "oh shit this won't work" after all the investment.


----------



## sethd11

Holy moly. Full lockers.... Stuff I can dream of.
It actually isn't that bad to have a truck stretched. Friend had one lengthened 6 feet for 3500 a couple years ago by a pro shop. 
You can easily build your own flatbed.
Have the pro shop put a 50 or 100 ton pintle on for liability reasons.
If I were you for your fields with bad entrances and steep angles,stay away from truck trailer combos


----------



## JD3430

IH 1586 said:


> Do you know of a trucking company or individual that has different examples of the setups that your thinking about. Paying mileage and doing several dry runs will be considerably cheaper than "oh shit this won't work" after all the investment.


Yes I have a friendly competitor who has a 30' truck and another with a Mack Tractor trailer.

Thats not a bad idea.

Even if I had them drive by in their pickup trucks, I'm sure they could tell if they'd get in/out easily.

Another important consideration:

If I were to buy this truck, I'll be selling my F-550 and 24K gooseneck to pool together some cash to throw at the big truck.

I will still have my '08 F-350 4x4 diesel.

It's older and has some miles, but still in pretty good shape.

I could grab a used 25' single wheel gooseneck to make small hauls, like 14-16 bales at a time.


----------



## OhioHay

I would stay with the outfit you have now until you can buy the tractor trailer without selling the f 550 and trailer. Then you can use the tractor trailer on fields you can access with it and the f 550 on the other fields and for local deliveries. You could also haul out of the poorer access fields with the f550 to a staging area where you could reload onto the semi for the longer hauls.


----------



## slowzuki

Straight truck needs less width for turns as the trailer tracks and with 4 way lock in back gets around better. All the pulp wood trucks here were straight self loaders and you didn’t need much road for them to pick up wood. It’s all day cab transports now and you need good roads with wide turns.


----------



## woodland

Not sure how your loading/unloading situation is but we were at a similar crossroads two years ago. We had a set of b-train trailers that got rusted/wore out and debated between updating them or a self loading/unloading truck. We went the truck route and haven't regretted it yet. Most hauls are 5-20 miles and it moves the same bales per hour as the old unit without a tractor in the field. Unloading is a lot quicker as you raise the hoist and off the back they come.

Another other option is a deck with a hoist and no waiting to be unloaded but I'm not sure if it's a problem for you? After you get a heavy truck rigged up you won't need/ want to use a pickup and flatdeck again for bales. ????








FYI. Our frame stretch cost $7,500CAD which included removal of a sleeper as well. I was picking bales this winter and it got around great till the diffs started dragging in the snow.

Adrian


----------



## carcajou

woodland said:


> Not sure how your loading/unloading situation is but we were at a similar crossroads two years ago. We had a set of b-train trailers that got rusted/wore out and debated between updating them or a self loading/unloading truck. We went the truck route and haven't regretted it yet. Most hauls are 5-20 miles and it moves the same bales per hour as the old unit without a tractor in the field. Unloading is a lot quicker as you raise the hoist and off the back they come.
> 
> Another other option is a deck with a hoist and no waiting to be unloaded but I'm not sure if it's a problem for you? After you get a heavy truck rigged up you won't need/ want to use a pickup and flatdeck again for bales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4CF7F7FD-23EE-4DEF-B1E4-5F05CBBFA8F0.jpeg
> FYI. Our frame stretch cost $7,500CAD which included removal of a sleeper as well. I was picking bales this winter and it got around great till the diffs started dragging in the snow.
> 
> Adrian
> 
> Nice Rig! I tried the self loader route too but went away from it after the 1st season. I found that for non sale bales it worked well but ended up with too many bales with 2 flats from sitting on the ground, then being loaded on a self loader. Bale appearance wise it was a failure. Kinda like the looks of the Haukass bale units because the bales appear to be set down on their flats again, but have never seen on in use. I'm with you that heavy trucks work well here but we do have little traffic and wide roads.


----------



## JD3430

I don't think they'd let me "dump" the bales where I'm going. It's a "wharf" kind of thing. 
my round bales are gathered up from the fields and stored at fields edge until delivery in the fall/winter. 
I'm really torn on this decision. The tractor trailer route offers me more versatility for other jobs. The 30' flatbed with optional pup trailer give me more manueveribility


----------



## JD3430

OhioHay said:


> I would stay with the outfit you have now until you can buy the tractor trailer without selling the f 550 and trailer. Then you can use the tractor trailer on fields you can access with it and the f 550 on the other fields and for local deliveries. You could also haul out of the poorer access fields with the f550 to a staging area where you could reload onto the semi for the longer hauls.


I wish I could do that.
I also have an F-350 that could pull a smaller 16K gooseneck with maybe 14 round bales for just the situation you describe.
The 550 and its gooseneck are my "downpayment" on the bigger truck.


----------



## woodland

carcajou said:


> woodland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how your loading/unloading situation is but we were at a similar crossroads two years ago. We had a set of b-train trailers that got rusted/wore out and debated between updating them or a self loading/unloading truck. We went the truck route and haven't regretted it yet. Most hauls are 5-20 miles and it moves the same bales per hour as the old unit without a tractor in the field. Unloading is a lot quicker as you raise the hoist and off the back they come.
> 
> Another other option is a deck with a hoist and no waiting to be unloaded but I'm not sure if it's a problem for you? After you get a heavy truck rigged up you won't need/ want to use a pickup and flatdeck again for bales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4CF7F7FD-23EE-4DEF-B1E4-5F05CBBFA8F0.jpeg
> FYI. Our frame stretch cost $7,500CAD which included removal of a sleeper as well. I was picking bales this winter and it got around great till the diffs started dragging in the snow.
> 
> Adrian
> Nice Rig! I tried the self loader route too but went away from it after the 1st season. I found that for non sale bales it worked well but ended up with too many bales with 2 flats from sitting on the ground, then being loaded on a self loader. Bale appearance wise it was a failure. Kinda like the looks of the Haukass bale units because the bales appear to be set down on their flats again, but have never seen on in use. I'm with you that heavy trucks work well here but we do have little traffic and wide roads.
Click to expand...

Thanks

The neighbors have a haukass unit and don't do much with it but it seems to do a good job. We try to pick right behind the baler before they get flat spots. If we want to row up the bales in the field we don't put the top layer on and after unloading we just use the bottom of the loader bucket to roll the rows a couple of feet apart from each other. I do agree about the traffic and roads being easier to deal with up here.


----------



## woodland

JD I know you mentioned earlier about trying to get this right the first time since you'll have to live with it for a while. That's how things go here too and usually equipment comes here for at least 15 years or retirement. My brother and I sent our folks on a 400 mile shopping trip today to find a newer swather. Been thinking about it for two years and narrowed it down last fall and got a few extra $$ burning our pockets and with auction season here it's time to move up to something 20 years newer.

Maybe get some quotes on a frame stretch/deck and that may surprise or help with the decision. Good luck whichever way you go. Keep us posted


----------



## mlappin

Personally I think my day cab tandem is more maneuverable with a 40' hopper bottom than my straight truck with a 20' bed pulling a 24' pintle hitch trailer.


----------



## endrow

Our Township stretched with a pumper tanker body on it and I drove that fire truck a lot it was 31 ft long and the axis were spread about as far as possible. The maneuverability on that truck was very poor but I could get a truck like that in any one of your Fields I am sure now to hook a 25-foot tag trailer behind it I really doubt it . We used semis we find that much more maneuverable but one thing you will find with the farmer's fields the sky is not the limit with these trucks. There's just some places you're going to need a small trailer behind a four-wheel drive pickup truck for a tractor and a hay wagon, or a real good mechanic and a welder


----------



## endrow

Sorry my auto-correct kill me again that 31 foot truck was an old 1999 8100 series International that was stretched


----------



## 8350HiTech

endrow said:


> Our Township stretched with a pumper tanker body on it and I drove that fire truck a lot it was 31 ft long and the axis were spread about as far as possible. The maneuverability on that truck was very poor but I could get a truck like that in any one of your Fields I am sure now to hook a 25-foot tag trailer behind it I really doubt it . We used semis we find that much more maneuverable but one thing you will find with the farmer's fields the sky is not the limit with these trucks. There's just some places you're going to need a small trailer behind a four-wheel drive pickup truck for a tractor and a hay wagon, or a real good mechanic and a welder


Something like a bus wheelbase would be much more maneuverable for a hay truck though. No better time to choose axle configuration than before the project gets started.


----------



## PaMike

8350HiTech said:


> Something like a bus wheelbase would be much more maneuverable for a hay truck though. No better time to choose axle configuration than before the project gets started.


Wouldn't the long overhang on the back also help the trailer follow behind the truck better?

Downside is it would probably distribute more weight on the rear axle, but for hay that might be ok


----------



## endrow

PaMike said:


> Wouldn't the long overhang on the back also help the trailer follow behind the truck better?
> 
> Downside is it would probably distribute more weight on the rear axle, but for hay that might be ok


Yes and No lots of tail swing can be tricky with towing , I think real tricky in close quarters b ut not sure .


----------



## woodland

You have to check your DOT rules for wheelbase, overhang, overall length,etc.....

I know our province has them on their website in simple language and pictures. Very helpful to check before buying or modifying a unit.


----------



## JD3430

mlappin said:


> Personally I think my day cab tandem is more maneuverable with a 40' hopper bottom than my straight truck with a 20' bed pulling a 24' pintle hitch trailer.


the important thing to keep in mind for my particular situation is that my fields are kind of "all or nothing" on the egress. 
Some are difficult access points where there's a blind curve or rise in the road where pulling out slowly with a 30' straight truck and pup trailer, or tractor trailer, could result in an unfortunate car/truck T-boning the hay truck. On those fields, the 30' straight truck (or my current set up) is the way to go. Even though it's only a 22 bale capacity, it can shoot across the road pretty fast.
On the other fields, I have plenty of visibility and reaction time for cars to see me pulling out, that's where the 30' straight truck and pup trailer would save me a lot of time by having a 40 bale capacity. 
I'm 90% sure a tractor with 45'-50' trailer would not be able to get in/out of 2 or 3 of my fields. Since I don't think I can keep both my 550 & 30' gooseneck AND a tractor trailer because of cost, I'm starting to believe a 30' straight truck and optional pup might be the way to go. OR I'd have to find a cheaper road tractor, probably one without AWD. However, nearly all my hay is loaded "off road" between October and April, so 4WD is almost a must because it's rarely dry and seldom frozen enough for 2WD. 
The downside of all this is it's a lot of money to spend to save maybe 5-10 days of hauling hay, so in the end, it may not be worth the expense. Saving time is great, but not at too much expense. 
Still thinking this through, so I appreciate all your ideas and thoughts!


----------



## carcajou

PaMike said:


> Wouldn't the long overhang on the back also help the trailer follow behind the truck better?
> 
> Downside is it would probably distribute more weight on the rear axle, but for hay that might be ok


You nailed it! Had a truck set up that way and the trailer followed perfectly. Weight way more balanced on the truck too.


----------



## JD3430

carcajou said:


> You nailed it! Had a truck set up that way and the trailer followed perfectly. Weight way way more balanced on the truck too.


So do not set the tandems way back on a 30' flatbed? Shoot for a 8-10' overhang?


----------



## SVFHAY

Back in the day I had a '95 mack tandem set up like you are suggesting.

Bought a tractor, stretched it to 250" wheelbase, put a 30' bed on it with 10' upper deck over cab. I had the pintle hitch 2' forward and under the rear of the bed. This allowed pulling a trailer with a 16' deck. Total length was 59' 11".

In Pa. a TRUCK pulling a trailer is limited to 60' for the combo. This is different than rules for semi. I know guys go longer but this is the rule and I was measured by dot more than once.

I had trailer licensed at 10000 lb and axles were at the very rear. This put a lot of pintle weight on truck. This worked with the rather long overhang on truck to help shift weight from steer axle to tandem. Steer axle was always close or over on weight.

I put a lot of miles on this combo and it did maneuver pretty well, however I am very happy with a semi and would never go back.

This setup as you have planned would be really cool with the 6x6, but the hassle of securing 2 separate loads and the cost of stretching truck and bed seem too much to me.

I again vote for short tandem tractor and a trailer with axles slid way up. Maybe spend a little on field entrance.


----------



## carcajou

JD3430 said:


> So do not set the tandems way back on a 30' flatbed? Shoot for a 8-10' overhang?


8'-9' from the back of the rear wheels would be good. It would depend a bit on the trailer too. How much weight will you be transferring to the truck? Pintle or gooseneck trailer? I like a 60/40 weight distribution on hay trailers, they trail nice then.


----------



## JD3430

carcajou said:


> 8'-9' from the back of the rear wheels would be good. It would depend a bit on the trailer too. How much weight will you be transferring to the truck? Pintle or gooseneck trailer? I like a 60/40 weight distribution on hay trailers, they trail nice then.


 I was thinking of installing a 40 ton pintle and glad hands to the back for a bumper pull air braked trailer.

I think it would be a pretty lightweight trailer, though. Probably no more than 25' long and 10 ton capacity. Even an electric brake trailer would be fine (and able to be towed behind a smaller truck)


----------



## carcajou

JD3430 said:


> I was thinking of installing a 40 ton pintle and glad hands to the back for a bumper pull air braked trailer.
> 
> I think it would be a pretty lightweight trailer, though. Probably no more than 25' long and 10 ton capacity. Even an electric brake trailer would be fine (and able to be towed behind a smaller truck)


Ok , then very similar to my setup. I put a 25' bed on the truck and a 26' bed on the pintle hitch trailer. 8' overhang from the back of the rear tires on the truck.. Here my deck truck insurance is under $175/year and my hwy tractor insurance is $800/yr, farm plates. Might save you a few bucks too.


----------



## JD3430

carcajou said:


> Ok , then very similar to my setup. I put a 25' bed on the truck and a 26' bed on the pintle hitch trailer. 8' overhang from the back of the rear tires on the truck.. Here my deck truck insurance is under $175/year and my hwy tractor insurance is $800/yr, farm plates. Might save you a few bucks too.


Didn't even explore insurance costs!! 
I only priced registration fees.


----------



## labdwakin

my $.02....

A 50 foot trailer will "theoretically" carry 38 4x5 round bales. But here's where the problems come in... how much do your bales weigh? (Sorry, I know you've mentioned it somewhere before but I'm down with a bug and too lazy to go find it.)

I've been pondering all these questions just like you for the last several months and came up with this:

For short/small hauls, Ram 3500 and a 24 or 30 foot gooseneck.

For big hauling, road tractor with two trailer options. First option is a shorter standard height flatbed (35' or so) for tight access areas and places where ground clearance is an issue. (When I was a kid we had some fields you couldn't even get a 24' gooseneck into.) And then later step up to a big 53' step deck for good conditions and big loads. (Ideally, I'd like a truck with a wet-kit and rear ramps and a dove that fold up to make the bed flat.

I already have the 24 ft gooseneck, so if I got the road tractor, first I'd get the 35 ft skateboard then I'd have upgraded my capacity and could haul more efficiently than I am right now. After that would be whichever I fell into a good deal on for the 30 foot goose or the 53 foot stepdeck. Such are the daydreams of a hillbilly farmer... LOL.


----------



## JD3430

Bales weigh 900lbs now that I have cranked pressure on my round baler.

I have yet to buy one piece of equipment that was "too big".
It always seems inevitable that I buy too small, then go through the painful/costly process of selling to buy something larger. A 30' straight truck would be nice, but it hauls no more hay than my 30' GN. Even with a 20' pup trailer, it's no better than a single 50' flatbed trailer. Just a little more versatile from small to large fields.

I'm about 80% sure I'm about to aquire 62 more acres of prime grassland and possibly another 20 in 2019. Its very accessible with a tractor and 50' trailer. It will be my single biggest continuous parcel. 
If I get this parcel, maybe it's time to stop letting the "tail wag the dog"....
I may cut loose 2 of my smaller, difficult access fields and greatly reduce the need for a smaller truck. 
If I keep my little F-350 4WD, I could get a small 25' 16K gooseneck for small deliveries. 
Get rid of F-550 and 30' gooseneck.


----------



## Ray 54

Shock the eastern part of the country,go west coast, a set of double trailers!!!!!!!!!! The short turning is why they are so popular out here with all the twisty mountian roads. But the other thing is use them one at a time on the back roads and poor field entences. Then hook them back together to go any distance on better roads.


----------



## JD3430

Ray 54 said:


> Shock the eastern part of the country,go west coast, a set of double trailers!!!!!!!!!! The short turning is why they are so popular out here with all the twisty mountian roads. But the other thing is use them one at a time on the back roads and poor field entences. Then hook them back together to go any distance on better roads.


I love it.


----------



## endrow

JD3430 said:


> Bales weigh 900lbs now that I have cranked pressure on my round baler.
> 
> I have yet to buy one piece of equipment that was "too big".
> It always seems inevitable that I buy too small, then go through the painful/costly process of selling to buy something larger. A 30' straight truck would be nice, but it hauls no more hay than my 30' GN. Even with a 20' pup trailer, it's no better than a single 50' flatbed trailer. Just a little more versatile from small to large fields.
> 
> I'm about 80% sure I'm about to aquire 62 more acres of prime grassland and possibly another 20 in 2019. Its very accessible with a tractor and 50' trailer. It will be my single biggest continuous parcel.
> If I get this parcel, maybe it's time to stop letting the "tail wag the dog"....
> I may cut loose 2 of my smaller, difficult access fields and greatly reduce the need for a smaller truck.
> If I keep my little F-350 4WD, I could get a small 25' 16K gooseneck for small deliveries.
> Get rid of F-550 and 30' gooseneck.
> 
> 
> 
> JD3430 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bales weigh 900lbs now that I have cranked pressure on my round baler.
> 
> I have yet to buy one piece of equipment that was "too big".
> It always seems inevitable that I buy too small, then go through the painful/costly process of selling to buy something larger. A 30' straight truck would be nice, but it hauls no more hay than my 30' GN. Even with a 20' pup trailer, it's no better than a single 50' flatbed trailer. Just a little more versatile from small to large fields.
> 
> I'm about 80% sure I'm about to aquire 62 more acres of prime grassland and possibly another 20 in 2019. Its very accessible with a tractor and 50' trailer. It will be my single biggest continuous parcel.
> If I get this parcel, maybe it's time to stop letting the "tail wag the dog"....
> I may cut loose 2 of my smaller, difficult access fields and greatly reduce the need for a smaller truck.
> If I keep my little F-350 4WD, I could get a small 25' 16K gooseneck for small deliveries.
> Get rid of F-550 and 30' gooseneck.
> 
> 
> 
> Buy the semi it will work . Don't start giving up land not semi friendly that wont work . A 20 ft flat wagon behind the Farm tractor is like a grain cart to a bto .
Click to expand...


----------



## JD3430

You mean short haul difficult access field bales over to easy access fields and load them on semi there?


----------



## Ray 54

Double trailers here are a lot of times all semi trailers. The back semi uses what is called converter gear,a 5th wheel on a axle with tongue to attack to back of semi. The vegetable growers will put a longer tongue on converter gears to pull trailer in the field with a tractor. Your difficult driveways you use one semi 24 to 28 feet as tractor and trailers do have lenght limit.


----------



## JD3430

Ray 54 said:


> Double trailers here are a lot of times all semi trailers. The back semi uses what is called converter gear,a 5th wheel on a axle with tongue to attack to back of semi. The vegetable growers will put a longer tongue on converter gears to pull trailer in the field with a tractor. Your difficult driveways you use one semi 24 to 28 feet as tractor and trailers do have lenght limit.


I do a lot of vacationing in AZ, CA, UT and it's really cool to see how you guys roll out there. Impressive hay operations and amazing weather.


----------



## slowzuki

I've been reading this with some interest about the pivot points, I've had a lot of trouble with my 23 ft gooseneck trying to get in places my 27 ft bumper pull was fine with due to the way they trail.

A farmer further up the road has four 30 ft 6 wheeled flat deck wagons, he tows them tandem with a pair of F350's, when empty he drives home 40+ mph with the rear rack folded forward strapped down to the bed. With the rear hitch extended behind the axle on the first wagon, the second wagon clears tight entrances in line with the first wagon.

He moves a lot more hay per hour per truck than I can and doesn't have to cross scales, bother with trailer inspections, registration, etc.


----------



## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> I've been reading this with some interest about the pivot points, I've had a lot of trouble with my 23 ft gooseneck trying to get in places my 27 ft bumper pull was fine with due to the way they trail.
> 
> A farmer further up the road has four 30 ft 6 wheeled flat deck wagons, he tows them tandem with a pair of F350's, when empty he drives home 40+ mph with the rear rack folded forward strapped down to the bed. With the rear hitch extended behind the axle on the first wagon, the second wagon clears tight entrances in line with the first wagon.
> 
> He moves a lot more hay per hour per truck than I can and doesn't have to cross scales, bother with trailer inspections, registration, etc.


It is interesting to think about.....

For me, hauling hay is a money loser since I'm paid by the ton for 85% of the hay I sell.
Since that's the case, I need to find the most economical model for hauling hay. I believe the 550/gooseneck may actually be the most economical, but I'm pushing the trucks' engineered limits and the truck is getting older and will be needing repairs. "Economical" also doesn't always equate to a quality of life and enjoyment level of work I chose to live, either. LOL

The 30' flatbed and and optional 20' pup trailer seems like the best option with my field entrances varying from 90 degree turns onto a road with a blind hill to some with large easy in/out openings. There's a neighboring BTO who hauls this way, too and I think he's onto something...


----------



## Texasmark

JD3430 said:


> Question: What truck is more maneuverable?
> 
> 1: Typical twin screw tractor trailer with a 50' trailer or
> 2. 10 wheel straight tandem (10 wheeler) truck w/ 30' flatbed, pulling 20' bumper pull trailer?
> When I say maneuverable, I mean like turning out of a road 90* onto a main road and not turning into embankments, knocking over pillars, mailboxes, etc.
> 
> Want to make a move on transporting hay.
> 
> 22 bales per load is too slow and time consuming.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> Answer:
> 
> Bumper pull far exceeds 5th wheel because of the location of the pivot point w/respect to the wheels on the towing vehicle. Take a combination dump truck with a trailer of a given length. Take a truck-pup with the same overall length, same wheelbase on the truck. Truck-pup wins hands down. BTDT
> 
> Other thing is this:
> 
> Center up on the road as you approach your turn.
> 
> Pull past the turn such that your TRUCKs tandem/rear wheels are just past the turn.....like on the far side from the side you approached.....trailer tandem isn't there yet.
> 
> Turn your wheel as hard as it will go left for a right turn, and back up slowly, jackknifeing your truck as far as the surface will allow....in doing this the front of your truck will be lining up with the turn (driveway).......the trailer will no longer be aligned with the road but making a 90 degree angle with the truck and the rear wheels of the truck will be at the edge of the road opposite the turn.
> 
> Note: What you have done is to position the trailer tandem as close to the turn as is possible....and since the trailer pivots on it's tandem, your pivot point is almost at the turn.
> 
> Turn the truck wheels as far as they will go to the right for a right turn and drive into the driveway or whatever. Like a little happy puppy dog your trailer will follow almost in your tire tracks.
> 
> Coming out: Come out Straight into the road as far as possible, no turning, straight out.....front tires at far edge of the roadway.
> 
> Again turn the wheel the appropriate direction, backing up, as to jackknife the trailer as far as things will let you thus swinging the front of the truck in the direction you want to go and putting the rear truck wheels near any obstruction, like a gate, fence, falling off a culvert....whatever.
> 
> Turn your wheels in the direction you want to go and your little puppy dog will follow you right out.
> 
> The problem i have telling this to people is that they don't believe me and do it their way. Numerous times I have been around when a driver was trying to get a long load in a narrow driveway in a short space. I'd stop what I was doing and go and offer assistance. Those who listened to what I said made it. Those that didn't tore things up or passed on delivering the load.
> 
> Had I not personally accomplished the task I wouldn't be wasting YOUR time proposing it.
> 
> Good luck.


----------



## JD3430

Thanks,
Would rather have a tractor trailer set up as it would be nice at a future date to maybe have a dump trailer for trucking and spreading mushroom soil. Maybe even one with a tailgate spreader I could spread with instead of a tractor pulled spreader. But that would open up another can of worms and expenses.


----------

