# Does anyone have experience hauling hay on a gooseneck with 3500, 4500 or5500?



## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm wanting to know if you have a load of hay on a dually pickup do u go by the GVW, GCVW or axle rating as long as your truck is licensed for it? I seem to be reading conflicting reports. I used to have a Freightliner & as long as u were ok on ur axle weight u were legal. Does a dually fall under that category or does it fall under something else? Thanks in advance, Randy


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I've been going over this also and am confused as my states DOT isn't very clear on anything. I had a guy hauling hay that used to load 300 bales on a tandem duallly trailer and a 3500 RAM, but he cut it down to 200 bales to be under weight limits as Colorado is really checking trucks and trailers of all kinds now.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

Is gcvw the combination weight?

I'm not sure about legal but around here if you are hauling ag related material the police usually don't bother you unless there is an obvious violation.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_Here they go by your axle ratings seperatly.also what you are lisenced for if you are over either one you could be ticketed._

_They tend to be looking at the other stuff more then the wieght for 5th wh pickup combo.Lights,brakes,secured load,DOT numbers,fire ext,medical card.!0 yrs ago they didn't bother you at all now they stop everyone.Playin dumb farmer don't work anymore!_


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

ANewman said:


> Is gcvw the combination weight?


Yes, gross combination vehicle weight. I have a Dodge 3500 chassis cab with a bale bed. It is registered @ 26,000 lbs. At 26,001 lbs. it would require a class A CDL as a combination vehicle pulling a trailer. That becomes a problem if my wife drives it.


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't have any problem with the weight limitations when it comes to my license. I have a class A CDL so my problem is with the vehicle. I'd like to get a 3500 or 4500 chassis so I could use it for more than 1 thing. I thought about getting a little single axle day cab semi so I wouldn't have to worry about the weight. I could get a 1994 Ford day cab w/ 97,000 miles for $4900 but the problem with that is it's hard to take the kids to school in it or do anything else with it other than pull a trailer.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

... but if u already have a pickup,u can leave the single axle hooked to the trailer. That's the route I decided was best for me. Plus the older single axles with just a fifth wheel can be bought for a lot less than a decent one ton flatbed.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Or just buy another pickup.


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

ANewman, that's what I was thinking but was wondering about a dually in case I pulled a 2nd trailer or had trouble with the daycab.

Swmnhay, I have a 2500hd right now so I'm afraid I might end up spending some money. :/


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

I got tired of hooking and looking all the time. Its hard for me to get any truck and trailer in my driveway, so I have to park my trailer elsewhere. This way is always hooked and ready to go.

The single axle IMO is a lot more capable tow vehicle, as far as pulling and stopping. Tags are more, insurance might be more, but its worth it to me


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> I don't have any problem with the weight limitations when it comes to my license. I have a class A CDL so my problem is with the vehicle. I'd like to get a 3500 or 4500 chassis so I could use it for more than 1 thing. I thought about getting a little single axle day cab semi so I wouldn't have to worry about the weight. I could get a 1994 Ford day cab w/ 97,000 miles for $4900 but the problem with that is it's hard to take the kids to school in it or do anything else with it other than pull a trailer.


I'm in the exact same situation. I have a heavy IH single axle and trailer. When I needed to haul my kids to football, school, etc., I bought a diesel F550 4WD with a crewcab and hi-capacity towing package with gooseneck hitch in the bed. I currently borrow a friends gooseneck trailer and he brings his 450 and his other gooseneck when we haul roundbales.
I like the 550 because it fits in my house garage and I can pretty much use it as an everyday driver, but it sucks on fuel.
I have mine tagged for a combo weight of 33,000lbs and also have my class A license with airbrakes.
I can put 22 round bales on the trailer and be just about 33-34K on the scale. Never been bothered by cops and the barracks is just down the street froim scale house. lol
I got apportioned tags so I can haul across state lines, too.

Insurance is about the same for both trucks (about $700/yr).


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

Here in Texas if you haul double wide rounds (5ft bales) you need a permit. I had a customer that got stopped by a city cop in Lewisville, TX and asked him for his permit. Ticket was $160.00 / permit $10.00. I use to help my heighbor haul his hay to East Texas down I-30 and never got stopped. I no longer have a dually because I don't haul that much and it doesn't justify the cost. More into fuel cost now with diesel @ $3.69.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

We can do 5' thick rolls edge to edge (10' total width) in PA on a trailer.
There's so much hay hauled where I live because of mushroom industry and thorobred horse/equine operations.


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

JD, does ur loads stay within ur axle limimitations or do u just go off gross weight?

Grady, we have the same thing here. A permit fee with a small, cheap oversized load banner. As if the people on the highway isn't going to see a 13' tall x 10' wide yellow/ green load of hay.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> JD, does ur loads stay within ur axle limimitations or do u just go off gross weight?
> 
> Grady, we have the same thing here. A permit fee with a small, cheap oversized load banner. As if the people on the highway isn't going to see a 13' tall x 10' wide yellow/ green load of hay.


Honestly? I go SOP feel and look of the trailer and never have problems. I have gone across scales at 35,000+ and the truck/trailer looks fine. I might be over on an axle, but I dont honestly know how the cops expect us to laod a trailer in a field and be able to tell.
I just know 22 bales at ~900# each weighs 19-20K lbs and the trailer & truck are 13-14K so total is ~33-34K.


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

I hear ya, It's hard to load anything & try to divide the weight on each axle in your head. How do u know what each round bale weighs? Do u weigh one per the setting on your baler or does the baler have a general weight/ size diagram?


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

I've been told that anything loaded " on farm" you are allowed 10% over


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> I hear ya, It's hard to load anything & try to divide the weight on each axle in your head. How do u know what each round bale weighs? Do u weigh one per the setting on your baler or does the baler have a general weight/ size diagram?


I just take total weight of truck loaded (say 33,000) minus total truck empty (say 14,500). That equals 18,500. Lets say I loaded 20 bales on truck. 18,500/20 = 925 /bale. Thats with my 7060 sileage special set on pretty high pessure.
Not exact, but short of weighing each bale on a livestock scale lol, it's the best I have.
The trailer is a 24,000lb GVWR trailer, so I'm usually pretty safe.
I always thought it'd be kinda cool to have an FEL with a scale, like a quarry loader.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

I've been told that anything loaded " on farm" you are allowed 10% over


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

ANewman, I would make sure I got that confirmation with DOT. That would be a hefty fine to go off hear say. Back when I drove a truck locally a guy told me that a 80,000# load could weigh 1500# over & you wouldn't get a ticket. It was a "buffer zone". I had another guy tell me 80,000# was the limit unless u have a permit. I fall in the latter. I haven't found to many DOT personnel that has a grey area in the law.

JD, that would be nice. I think that's my biggest hurdle with ag coming from the construction industry. We always knew what the weights were whether it was brick, gravel, lumber or vinyl siding.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> ANewman, I would make sure I got that confirmation with DOT. That would be a hefty fine to go off hear say. Back when I drove a truck locally a guy told me that a 80,000# load could weigh 1500# over & you wouldn't get a ticket. It was a "buffer zone". I had another guy tell me 80,000# was the limit unless u have a permit. I fall in the latter. I haven't found to many DOT personnel that has a grey area in the law.
> 
> JD, that would be nice. I think that's my biggest hurdle with ag coming from the construction industry. We always knew what the weights were whether it was brick, gravel, lumber or vinyl siding.


Very close friend of mine is a "truck cop" now after 10 yrs as a patrolman.
He allows 2-3% depending on situation.

IB,
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just overbuy on truck capacity and tags. These guys are more picky about proper tagging, registration & licensing than being a little overweight. Be polite when you get pulled over and be respectfull and you'll get lots of leeway.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

A driver told me years ago there was a bit of allowance over gross to allow for rain/ice on the load. _*But*_ if the rig weighed more than that, the ticket went back & started at the weight allowed by law. (That was years ago...no idea if it still follows.)

Like said before, I'd suggest get the rules you follow *in print *(and carry it with you) so you have more than "I was told" to back you up.


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

I think I will probably end up with the single axle daycab since it's alot cheaper & I think it has a 46,000# rating


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It varies from cop to cop.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> I think I will probably end up with the single axle daycab since it's alot cheaper & I think it has a 46,000# rating


I have my IH tagged for 54,000lbs GCWR for the real heavy equipment. Might buy a hay flatbed for it someday, but fiscally, it dont make sense. I mostly use it as a dump truck with a backhoe trailer to haul tractors & equipment.
However, I could never use it as an everday driver. The 550 crewcab carries all my gang in comfort, parks in the garage attached to my house, wife can drive it in a pinch and it's relatively civilized.

I went through all the decisions you are going through......


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## IslandBreeze (Nov 6, 2012)

I definately like the 450 or 550 idea because of everything u just said, I just don't know if I want to spend another $10-20,000 over what a F9000 would cost me. It's just if money wasn't an object. Haha


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IslandBreeze said:


> I definately like the 450 or 550 idea because of everything u just said, I just don't know if I want to spend another $10-20,000 over what a F9000 would cost me. It's just if money wasn't an object. Haha


Yes true, if you only have light budget, then go with a s/a road tractor daycab. Keep in mind a sleeper is cheaper!


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I have my IH tagged for 54,000lbs GCWR for the real heavy equipment. Might buy a hay flatbed for it someday, but fiscally, it dont make sense. I mostly use it as a dump truck with a backhoe trailer to haul tractors & equipment.
> However, I could never use it as an everday driver. The 550 crewcab carries all my gang in comfort, parks in the garage attached to my house, wife can drive it in a pinch and it's relatively civilized.
> 
> I went through all the decisions you are going through......


I saw that IH of yours in another post. That is such a kick ass truck with the 4x4 on aluminums.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

cmd said:


> I saw that IH of yours in another post. That is such a kick ass truck with the 4x4 on aluminums.


Thanks.
I have since put alcoas on the back and some other nice details.
I'd like to put a 16' flatbed hay body on it, but still need a dumptruck sometimes!


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I always thought it'd be kinda cool to have an FEL with a scale, like a quarry loader.


I did this to my tractor loader a couple years ago. Plumbed in an electrical pressure sending unit into the line on the correct side of the boom cylinders at the mid mount. Mounted a digital display into one of the knockouts overhead next to the radio. I weigh every bale going into the wrapper. Accuracy? I feel comfortable it's close.

I loaded a guys trailer last week with haylage. He was slam overweight. I stopped loading the trailer when he told me to stop. He was buying it by the bale. He didn't ask what each weighed and I didn't tell. He was getting it cheap enough he wanted to tote as much as he could I guess. From what I've been told, he lost a tire or two. He's a neighbor. He didn't have far to go. I wouldn't have loaded it so heavy if he had to get out on the highway.


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## T&LSkaarfarms (Dec 11, 2011)

I got sick of replacing axle seals on my GMC 2500 a few years ago so I bought a GMC 6500 straight truck. I cut about 6 feet out of the frame so it would take an 8 foot dually box, repainted her in and out, put a goosneck plate in her and called it good. Being pretty short, it does ride pretty rough without a gooseneck on the back but it turns really tight and seems to have enough weight for some pretty good traction. It even has pretty conservitive tires... The large brakes on those trucks are awesome and the 2 speed rearend gives it about as much power as that duramax without having to worrying about any overheating with big loads. It has a gas 366 big block in it so that 5 mpg range is about what its at, but it sounds awesome and for as much as I drive it looking forever to find one with a diesel in that was in good shape. Around here these trucks go for $1500 at most. I think I have just over $2200 in with everything I did to it. Well worth the money in my opinion. It really turns some heads too


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## D.C.Cattle Company (Jul 19, 2010)

I live in Illinois, If you are hauling for your own farm use there are no special truck or trailer requirements. Since I sell and haul hay (squares and round), I have a Ram 2500 that IDOT requires D liscence on the truck ($350) and required weight liscense on my 28ft. trailer . In my case I have trailer liscense that are rated at 25,000 lbs gross trailer weight at the cost off $450.

Thia allows me to comfortably haul 200 - 65lb. square bales and 16ft. elevator +13,000lbs net weight or 14 -6x5 round bales at 1200 per bale - 17,000lb net weight.

One thing I did find out IDOT requires all D liscense vehicles to have cab running lights which I added.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its interesting to see all the local rules. I've got a 27 ft bumper pull flat bed I use to deliver with but its got an SMV triangle on it and isn't supposed to go over 25 mph. A neighbour uses 30+ ft long walking beam tandem hay wagons to deliver with. He has SMV's on them but they haul at 50 mph behind F150's.

The problem I can get into is I have DOT tires and springs on my trailer which if pulled over does not conform to agricultural trailer. Also to be unplated here an agricultural trailer is supposed to be traveling to or from a field. Barn to barn doesn't count.


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## eight (Feb 2, 2011)

Very much confusion on this subject. Texas law allows farmers to be overwidth with no permit. You better have farm plates. The cops will ticket you for whatever they think they can. Then its up to the judge in the area, they can be just as confusing... It is possible that you will get a ticket in one city and the judge will make you pay it even when you are doing something that is completely legal and understood as so in the other 99.5% of the state, not much you can practically do about it. If you're hauling for hire you may not fall under "farm", confusion again.

The Internet makes all this even more confusing because it knows no bounds while DOT laws change by state.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Usually if you go to your local dmv, they have booklets outlining the rules and regulations regarding federal motor carrier standards. More and more I see states moving towards the "federal" standards. I think the goal is to unify the laws so theres less confusion, but I guess that in itself creates confusion.

In my area you almost have to purchase apportioned tags because I live where 4 states come together.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

_you can find it online here.Mn DOT_


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

One of my typical truck, gooseneck & 22 round bale loads after crossing scale.
I think this load was 34,000 lbs.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I like BIGGER bales.Just scaled 33040 with 11 bales.Last load of the yr.









DONE for the yr.all sold and delivered.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> I like BIGGER bales.Just scaled 33040 with 11 bales.Last load of the yr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GOOD JOB!!
I think I'll take the rest of the year off, too.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah they musta been big bales!!!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah they musta been big bales!!!


1694 lbs


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I didnt know a round bale could weigh that much!! 5x6's???


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> I didnt know a round bale could weigh that much!! 5x6's???


Yea 5 x 6 baled with vermeer 605 SM

Basically the newer the baler the tighter they pack,Vermeer,NH or JD

My baler has a scale so i stop the bale size if they are getting to heavy.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's cool! I would like to have bought a Vermeer. I liked the built in moisture meter they offer. I think I should have gone with a 4x6 and just baled to 5' diameter. Maybe the baler would last longer.


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