# Hay Tarp Idea



## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Saw this on Agtalk, and thought that this had to be shared with the Haytalk community! Ingenious. I really want to start doing this.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=547674&mid=4503183#M4503183

Trey


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Would still have to deal with bottom spoilage, but I like the strategy.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Would work much better if the hay could be stored inside a building then after a month or 6 weeks stacked and covered with plastic. I have a friend that does the exact same thing with used tarps he bought from the co-op that they used to cover piles of corn, of course his ground is so light and sandy he just stacks the bottom row directly on the ground and gets very little spoilage.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Would still have to deal with bottom spoilage, but I like the strategy.


 there would not be spoilage on the bottom the bottom bails are on the same plastic that the entire thing is constructive of..Several farmers nearby me are doing this and it seems to work half decent. On our farm we wrap the head to be stored outside.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> there would not be spoilage on the bottom the bottom bails are on the same plastic that the entire thing is constructive of..Several farmers nearby me are doing this and it seems to work half decent. On our farm we wrap the head to be stored outside.


 I think they are only putting down plastic under one of those bales, the other two are laying on the ground. Down here, everywhere the plastic tarp touched the bales, it would be moldy....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah I always have same problem. Inveitably, moisture gets on top of tarp on ground and creates spoilage.

Stone would help, but stone aint cheap, either.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

I've snagged a lot of old light poles when they were replacing them in the area-- the light company doesn't even pick them up anymore-- they just drop them in the ditch and it's first come first served...

I put two light poles about 2-3 feet apart and then stack my rounds on top of them. Keeps them up off the ground and so no spoilage on bottom anymore. Our heavy black clay soil used to rot the bottom of the bales terribly, especially in a wet year. We've reduced spoilage loss on bottom by at least 90% from what it was before.

When I worked at the school driving bus, I used to get dinged/busted pallets from the school warehouse-- they were going to haul them off and burn them, so my boss would stack them up in one end of the warehouse and give me a shout when he had a pickup load, and I'd come get them-- he'd even set them in the back of the truck for me with the forklift, so all I had to do was tie them down and haul 'em home. We used pallets under the bales for a lot of years, before the new boss came in and screwed everything up, and my supply of pallets dried up. Cut waste quite a bit, maybe by 70% of just stacking them flat on the ground, but the bad thing was the pallets were pretty much rotted into the ground within two years... then you've got a huge mess of rotten scab lumber with rusty nails sticking out everywhere to pick up, and you sure don't want them in a tractor tire! We even put pallets on top of the old ones, which worked sorta okay, IF what was left of the bottom ones didn't collapse unevenly and cause the bales to roll... had that happen in one row and had some pretty messed up sides of the bales where they were touching each other.

If I had a ready supplier of this silage pile or corn pile plastic, this would be something I'd be interested in doing. I'd probably just pile dirt or old tires on the plastic on both sides though, having the bales sitting on the light poles to keep them up off the ground. I've read in Farm Show magazine about guys getting old billboard tarps (with the advertising printed on them, after the ad has run its course and the billboard company pulls them down and replaces them with something else) and using those for hay tarps... the edges are usually hemmed and made to take a pipe, so they run a pipe through them and then tie them down to the ground, screw anchor screws into the bales to hold the tarps, or weigh them down by tying concrete blocks or other stuff to the tarp pipes to keep them tight.

Read where a guy was suffering some molding from moisture condensing on the inside of the tarp and running down onto the hay where it was touching the tarp and causing mold... he fixed the problem by getting some big spikes and "nailing" 2x4's down on the bales to keep the tarps up off the hay a little bit... it keeps the moisture on the back of the tarp from coming into direct contact with the hay, and any that DOES run down onto the hay can evaporate and dry out with a little air circulation... having the tarp not physically touching the bale allows air to move through and the moisture to dry out.

Later! OL JR


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I also have seen plastic pallets. They are strong, no nails and best of all no rot. Only problem is, most guys wat $20 each for them because they know farmers want em.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> I also have seen plastic pallets. They are strong, no nails and best of all no rot. Only problem is, most guys wat $20 each for them because they know farmers want em.


Yeah, I've heard of that too, and thought about it. Didn't have a source for them, and of course "free" is better than $20 bucks a pop.

Most of the ones I've seen aren't anywhere near as tall as a regular pallet, either. OR, they have very small "feet" that hold up the load, which would sink rapidly into damp clay soil. A regular 5 inch high pallet (2x4 sides with roughly 3/4 to 1 inch top and bottom boards) would keep the bales up high enough off the ground to allow enough air gap to prevent any real damage... as the pallets started rotting on bottom and "sinking in" to the ground some and that air gap narrowed, the bottoms of the bales would start getting sloppy pretty quick... a 1-2 inch gap between the bale and dirt, and you'll have about the same damage as the bale being directly on the dirt in my experience...

It's certainly an option, and if a guy wanted to put down a layer of stone first, plastic pallets might be just the ticket... certainly better than wood pallets to be sure, for the reasons you mentioned. I still have 2-3 rows that I'm going to have to figure out something for-- and our local supply of light poles has pretty well dried up-- they've replaced most all the power poles in the last few years! I've been tinkering with the idea of some type of poured concrete "sidewalks" to put bales on, but unless they have a good moisture barrier under them, they'll sweat and probably do as much damage to the bale bottoms as just putting them on the dirt. It's really the air gap that makes the whole thing work. My thinking is leaning more towards either RR ties, but that gets rather expensive, or just making some "forms" and pouring my own concrete runners-- sort of like those concrete things that cattleguards sit on, without the trouble of the "lip and recess" for the cattleguard... basically just a big, long, square concrete beam, maybe 10 feet long, and about 8x8, with some rebar or hardware cloth in them, maybe a couple loops to chain off and move them if needed... set two of those about 2-3 feet apart like the light poles, and set the bales on them... should keep them up off the ground and a good air gap under the bales for storage...

Later and thanks for the ideas! OL JR


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Seems like tires on stone is best. Nothing stronger than a damn tire. They last for years, no nails, easy to move around, but UGLY.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> Seems like tires on stone is best. Nothing stronger than a damn tire. They last for years, no nails, easy to move around, but UGLY.


Probably true in a lot of areas, and I admit I've thought about it... BUT...

I don't need the mosquito breeders tires would become in wet weather, nor the snakes that would inevitably follow the mice and rats inside those cozy, nest-house tires...

If I were going that route, I'd forget the tires and just stick with the rock...

Later! OL JR


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

Would a thick layer of blow sand or gravel work instead of the rock? Your guy's talk about ground spoilage is foreign language to this Kansas Saharan sand farmer.

Trey


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

luke strawwalker said:


> Probably true in a lot of areas, and I admit I've thought about it... BUT...
> 
> I don't need the mosquito breeders tires would become in wet weather, nor the snakes that would inevitably follow the mice and rats inside those cozy, nest-house tires...
> 
> ...


Cut the tires lengthwise. No skeeters.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

treymo said:


> Would a thick layer of blow sand or gravel work instead of the rock? Your guy's talk about ground spoilage is foreign language to this Kansas Saharan sand farmer.
> 
> Trey


Main thing here with our usual 44-46 inches of rain year round and pool-table flat black clay soil is moisture wicking up into the bottom of the bale and rotting the bottoms off 'em. The finer the aggregate you put down in your storage area, the more moisture holding capability it has and the easier it will wick up moisture. Lots of guys store bales on the ground here and just eat the losses, feeding their own cows, not worth it to them to bother trying to keep the rot down. BUT, it DOES add up...

To really minimize the wicking problem, it's best to go with about the coarsest rock/crushed concrete or whatever you can get... keep them up off the ground and provide easy water infiltration when it rains, from the water running off the bales, and yet provide air space to prevent/minimize wicking back up into the bottom of the bale. Of course tires or pallets or RR ties or lite poles are better yet-- NO ground contact (or at most extremely minimal) and a nice air gap under the bales-- more air circulation= less rot.

Now, at Shiner, on those sandy soil hills getting only about 34 inches of rain in an average year, if you put your bale rows up on top of the hill, preferably on an old terrace from back in the days when folks were still trying to grow cotton up there, you won't see much damage at all to the bottom of the bales... a little, but NOTHING like down here on the clay...

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> Cut the tires lengthwise. No skeeters.


Lengthwise?? I presume you mean cut em in half down the center of the tread??

Maybe... still a mess though and still prime mouse/rat nesting area under them and snake habitat...

No thanks... 

OL JR


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## rjbaustian (Oct 16, 2012)

The way I look at it this. Sure, some of these fixes cost some money, but whats the return on your investment? Ive got limescreenings for the floor of my shed. The roundbales weren't bothered, but im just getting to the bottom layer of my small squares. The bottom layer is no good. Luckily I have 18 foot eves, so I stacked them all the way to the roof, and my pile wasn't wide. I just found used Pallets on craigslist in my area for 5 bucks for the like new, nd 3 bucks for the odd shapped, or they have a broken board. If I buy 100 of them, that's 500 bucks. Ill have more in spoilage per year, so my money is paid back in the 1st year. Same with the outside storage. buying the rock, pallets, cement, light poles, whatever, and a nice tarp is a heck of a lot cheaper than putting up a new building. This is my first year selling any quantity of hay, and every single person Ive sold to has just raved about how nice it is to buy hay that's stored inside. Just my 2 cents


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rjbaustian said:


> The way I look at it this. Sure, some of these fixes cost some money, but whats the return on your investment? Ive got limescreenings for the floor of my shed. The roundbales weren't bothered, but im just getting to the bottom layer of my small squares. The bottom layer is no good. Luckily I have 18 foot eves, so I stacked them all the way to the roof, and my pile wasn't wide. I just found used Pallets on craigslist in my area for 5 bucks for the like new, nd 3 bucks for the odd shapped, or they have a broken board. If I buy 100 of them, that's 500 bucks. Ill have more in spoilage per year, so my money is paid back in the 1st year. Same with the outside storage. buying the rock, pallets, cement, light poles, whatever, and a nice tarp is a heck of a lot cheaper than putting up a new building. This is my first year selling any quantity of hay, and every single person Ive sold to has just raved about how nice it is to buy hay that's stored inside. Just my 2 cents


This is true...

Buildings are great if you've got 'em... or if you can afford to build them and figure out how to make them pay (selling into the high end of the market, etc). The bad thing about a building is the taxes... these days the gubmint scumbags just roam the countryside looking for ANYTHING that they can tax, especially around here (too close to Houston).

You can do a lot to help preserve your hay just with crushed concrete, coarse rock, light poles, pallets, tires, or whatever you have, and some good hay tarps properly installed... I've even read about some guy in Farm Show magazine that is buying old billboard signs (they are usually just huge, pre-printed tarps that they put up over the billboard backing nowdays) and using them for hay tarps-- they're heavy-weight, high quality material and hold up well (as they'd have to being on a huge sign board up in the air where the wind can get at them!) and he gets them CHEAP...

Just getting them up off the ground is better than nothing... lite poles or busted concrete/rock can help keep moisture wicking and spoilage of the bottom of the bale to a minimum.

Still, lots of guys feeding their own cows just line them up anywhere it's convenient and somewhat out of the way (regardless of whether it's really a "good" spot to put them or not!) and don't worry about the spoilage-- just take the loss and go on. I did some baling for my former boss and he wanted me to put the bales UNDER SOME TREES in a low spot next to an overgrown fence row... said the trees helped "keep the rain off them"... Well, looking at the bales from the previous year that were rotted HALFWAY INTO THE GROUND, I could tell that wasn't true by a longshot! Ever stood under a tree in a rainstorm?? You still get soaked, it just takes a little longer... and water will still be shaking out of the trees from the breeze a half hour after it quits raining! Wet stuff under a tree doesn't dry out worth a darn, either, because it's shaded so much and usually the tree breaks so much of the wind or air movement, ESPECIALLY if it's surrounded by undergrowth like an overgrown fenceline! I pointed this out to him, but he didn't care-- it's what was 'convenient' for him... cest le vie...

Later! OL JR


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

luke strawwalker said:


> Buildings are great if you've got 'em... or if you can afford to build them and figure out how to make them pay (selling into the high end of the market, etc). The bad thing about a building is the taxes... these days the gubmint scumbags just roam the countryside looking for ANYTHING that they can tax, especially around here (too close to Houston).


Depending on your county/state hoop buildings are usually tax exempt if they either sit on treated lumber using ground anchors to hold them in place or sitting on a asphalt pad or on the 2x2x6 blocks. Place a hoop building on a pony wall or a cement slab and now its taxed as its considered permanent. Like anybody is really gonna try to slide a hoop building off those big cement blocks.

Like I said, depending on.

Dads cousin owns my great grandfathers original homestead, in his county just ten miles away any kind of hoop building is taxed like a pole barn. Makes no sense as this is the county that just recently started to require septic systems to actually have a permit and be inspected before covering. Up until a few years ago bury a 55 gallon drum and call it a new septic when you try to sell it.

I know JD doesn't have room for a hoop building and he most likely isn't the only one in that situation, but I'm convinced they are the way to go for cheap hay storage in the long run and unlike tarps tough hay actually has a chance to dry out instead of turning to crap, when they don't have hay in em you can either park equipment in em or let the cattle have em.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

mlappin said:


> Depending on your county/state hoop buildings are usually tax exempt if they either sit on treated lumber using ground anchors to hold them in place or sitting on a asphalt pad or on the 2x2x6 blocks. Place a hoop building on a pony wall or a cement slab and now its taxed as its considered permanent. Like anybody is really gonna try to slide a hoop building off those big cement blocks.
> 
> Like I said, depending on.
> 
> ...


Yep... just depends on your locale and tax laws, what you're trying to do, and how much money you have to play with...

That's all gonna be different depending on the situation...

Later! OL JR


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

A sort of embarrassing admission:
In my area, tarps and hoop buildings are REALLY Unpopular.
A local hay farmer lost a lucrative field because he was tapping hay in plain view of the land owners house. Tarps flapped in the wind all winter. He got shown the gate. No more tarps for the guy who took his place. Obviously, he should have made a better choice on placement of the hay stacks.
I did everything I could to secure tarps, then they just ripped in the wind. I think it's the low quality taprs I used. Gotta buy the good silver tarps..


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

We got some billboard tarps to put under pallets of small square bale hay stacked with a grapple inside a barn. Worked for that. Same barn was old with one wall that wood siding had wide spaces that rain easily came through. Covered inside wall with the tarps. They offered quite a bit of protection but could easily see rain coming in through the tarps where the fiber had worn from moving in the wind in their original life. Just be aware that billboard tarps may not be waterproof. Around here tarped hay stored outside is just about impossible to keep from having condensation issues.

Shelia


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

We lay cut tires down put pallets on top of those then stack round bales on them. Cover with a hay tarp that has pockets down each side that we slide half inch steel conduit down it and use tarp straps to hold it down to the pallets. Made some spikes to hold the ends down to the end bales on each end. Then tie tires off the gussets that cant be spiked down. We do stack it in a halfway decently protected spot. Bales are just as good as coming out of the barn. Tires keep the pallets from freezing to the ground

Have stacked some right on the ground when it was dry on sloped ground and covered with silage bag plastic with tires tied to the sides as an anchor and had very little spoilage on the bottom

Attention to detail, common sense and good managment are the key to success


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## treymo (Dec 29, 2013)

3430- Tapping hay?

Trey


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Unless the hay is bone dry I would think there would be condensation issues.Or let hay go threw its sweat then stack and tarp.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

treymo said:


> 3430- Tapping hay?
> 
> Trey


Tarping.
Trey, of all the typos on this site, that was the one that tripped you up?


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