# Floor for a hay shed (barn)



## Coondle

Read several posts about barn floors that cannot be trafficked by machines loading hay into barns.

A few years ago short of pennies and needing a shed with a solid waterproof traffickable floor on which to store hay I came up with the following solution. It may be useful to others.

I built a steel framed, steel sheeted shed measuring 16 metres (52 feet) by 25 metres (83 feet) with a minimum of 4.5 metres (15 feet ) under the purlins. Then came the need to put in a floor.

The solution:

Visit the local Quarry crushing granite for aggregate. for road surfacing and concrete etc. Quarries produce huge quantities of crusher dust also known as cracker dust. The particles are sub 2mm (1/12 of an inch ) in the coarsest grade and like flour in the finest. I bought alternating loads of dust, my truck could move 16.5 US tons per load and I hauled in 90 tons. Cost for the dust, $270.00.

Next I purchased 100 metres (330feet) of builders' film. Black plastic used to put a water proof membrane below a concrete slab, 20 microns thick, I think that translates 50 thousands of an inch. Cost $350.00.

Next came the cement, I do not know your grade but the ordinary cement that is mixed 5;3;1 to make concrete. I bought 12 tonnes (13,2 us tons) in Bulka bags each holding 1 tonne. Cost under $2,000.

Method :

Lay the builders film on the ground which has been levelled and compacted. My dirt is solid so no need to compact it.

Form up the area you can manage. On my own i needed to keep it to just over 4 metres (13.2 ft)or one sixth of the shed depth, by 8 metres (26.4 ft) being half the shed width and 150mm (6inches) deep.

This area coincided with my cement ratio and is one twelfth of the floor area so one bulka bag of cement per mix.

Working outside the formed up area, with a front end loader, place enough cracker dust to fill the formed up area. I have a 10 ton 125 hp industrial FEL.

Put a conical depression in the pile of cracker dust and the put cement onto/into the top of the cracker dust. Cracker dust is very sharp despite being fine so mixed with cement it is able to bond together well but not as good as concrete but nowhere near the price.

Using the FEL turn over the heap mixing the cement and cracker dust thoroughly.

Load the thoroughly mixed cracker dust and cement into the formed up area and screed to reasonably level.

With a plate compacter compact the area thoroughly, then screed to level with the formwork.

Spray water onto the mix using a fine spray but plenty of water until the whole area is flooded and water remains on the top.

Sprinkle liberal quantities of raw cement on the surface and with reasonable amounts of water create a surface slurry that is then trowelled to a smooth surface. The effect is similar to case-hardening steel. This must be done before the recently placed watered material has properly set, that way a good bond is achieved

Use a trowel to bevel the edges or get a rolled edge on the formed up area.

Keep a very fine mist of water on the surface for 12 or more hours.

Repeat until the whole floor is done.

Where any vehicles enter/exit, cast a beam in 5:3:1 concrete and even put some reinforcing mesh on this edge beam to act as a protector.

For the first couple of years I have used more builders film on the top of the concrete until the moisture used in the mix has dissipated .

The floor is not as strong as concrete but stands up to my loader and my truck, a Volvo 4 axle truck grossing over 30 US tons.

You cannot work on ot as you would a workshop floor.

nearly 4500 sq feet of heavy duty traffic floor for under $3,000.

including the extra topping cement, formwork , and the plate compacter.

If you do not need water proofing then the mixing can be done after the materials are placed levelled in the formwork. Put in the cracker dust and place the cement evenly across the whole area to be mixed. Then mix the cement into the cracker dust with a rotary hoe being careful to minimise the penetration below the cracker dust, compact and water down then top off and provide any edge protection necessary.

Hope someone finds tis of use.


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## ontario hay man

Coondle said:


> Read several posts about barn floors that cannot be trafficked by machines loading hay into barns.
> A few years ago short of pennies and needing a shed with a solid waterproof traffickable floor on which to store hay I came up with the following solution. It may be useful to others.
> I built a steel framed, steel sheeted shed measuring 16 metres (52 feet) by 25 metres (83 feet) with a minimum of 4.5 metres (15 feet ) under the purlins. Then came the need to put in a floor.
> The solution:
> Visit the local Quarry crushing granite for aggregate. for road surfacing and concrete etc. Quarries produce huge quantities of crusher dust also known as cracker dust. The particles are sub 2mm (1/12 of an inch ) in the coarsest grade and like flour in the finest. I bought alternating loads of dust, my truck could move 16.5 US tons per load and I hauled in 90 tons. Cost for the dust, $270.00.
> Next I purchased 100 metres (330feet) of builders' film. Black plastic used to put a water proof membrane below a concrete slab, 20 microns thick, I think that translates 50 thousands of an inch. Cost $350.00.
> Next came the cement, I do not know your grade but the ordinary cement that is mixed 5;3;1 to make concrete. I bought 12 tonnes (13,2 us tons) in Bulka bags each holding 1 tonne. Cost under $2,000.
> Method :
> Lay the builders film on the ground which has been levelled and compacted. My dirt is solid so no need to compact it.
> Form up the area you can manage. On my own i needed to keep it to just over 4 metres (13.2 ft)or one sixth of the shed depth, by 8 metres (26.4 ft) being half the shed width and 150mm (6inches) deep.
> This area coincided with my cement ratio and is one twelfth of the floor area so one bulka bag of cement per mix.
> Working outside the formed up area, with a front end loader, place enough cracker dust to fill the formed up area. I have a 10 ton 125 hp industrial FEL.
> Put a conical depression in the pile of cracker dust and the put cement onto/into the top of the cracker dust. Cracker dust is very sharp despite being fine so mixed with cement it is able to bond together well but not as good as concrete but nowhere near the price.
> Using the FEL turn over the heap mixing the cement and cracker dust thoroughly.
> Load the thoroughly mixed cracker dust and cement into the formed up area and screed to reasonably level.
> With a plate compacter compact the area thoroughly, then screed to level with the formwork.
> Spray water onto the mix using a fine spray but plenty of water until the whole area is flooded and water remains on the top.
> Sprinkle liberal quantities of raw cement on the surface and with reasonable amounts of water create a surface slurry that is then trowelled to a smooth surface. The effect is similar to case-hardening steel. This must be done before the recently placed watered material has properly set, that way a good bond is achieved
> Use a trowel to bevel the edges or get a rolled edge on the formed up area.
> Keep a very fine mist of water on the surface for 12 or more hours.
> Repeat until the whole floor is done.
> Where any vehicles enter/exit, cast a beam in 5:3:1 concrete and even put some reinforcing mesh on this edge beam to act as a protector.
> For the first couple of years I have used more builders film on the top of the concrete until the moisture used in the mix has dissipated .
> The floor is not as strong as concrete but stands up to my loader and my truck, a Volvo 4 axle truck grossing over 30 US tons.
> You cannot work on ot as you would a workshop floor.
> nearly 4500 sq feet of heavy duty traffic floor for under $3,000.
> including the extra topping cement, formwork , and the plate compacter.
> 
> If you do not need water proofing then the mixing can be done after the materials are placed levelled in the formwork. Put in the cracker dust and place the cement evenly across the whole area to be mixed. Then mix the cement into the cracker dust with a rotary hoe being careful to minimise the penetration below the cracker dust, compact and water down then top off and provide any edge protection necessary.
> 
> Hope someone finds tis of use.


Thats interesting. I assume what you call cracker dust is what I called screenings? Our stuff is small and half clay with small pebbles. It packs like concrete. Do you pile hay right on the stuff? If we did the bottom row would have to go to what you guys would call the dung pile lol. The reason I cant drive on most of my floor is because the wood isnt thick enough. My barn has 8 foot stone walls for the animal part. Then there is big wood beams supporting the upper floor. The floor to drive on has 3 inch boards but the ones where we pile hay is only an inch. Im going to beef mine up when we clean the hay out in the spring. Im getting 2 inch hemlock. Should work great.


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## Coondle

Yes it is screenings from crushing hard raw rock thus no clay but some could be as fins as clay. Clay in my experience has been subjected to water action and the particles are rounded. However your clays were no doubt created by glaciation and could be composed of sharp particles. Aggregate for concrete etc in some parts is obtained by screening deposits of gravel and removing the fine material. There are few deposits that are amenable to that treatment here, instead we crush granite that you would consider a bedrock, and in the crushing process there is the by-product of very fine material that is "dirt cheap. Quarry operators in the past would load it for free otherwise the accumulation would literally choke the quarry. Now there are a growing number of uses , the principal ones are: as a sand substitute in making concrete (attractive because it is cheaper than sand and as strong or stronger), as a soil amendment (it contains trace elements), as a road base and in the horticulture industry.

Screenings, fines , cracker dust, quarry dust are all terms used here to describe the product.

In regard to the floor:

For the first couple of years I put builders' film (black plastic sheeting) on the floor then put a light sprinkling of dry hay down to stop the fresh hay which may be at the upper moisture limit from sweating and going mouldy on the bottom 1/2 inch in contact with the floor The plastic is laid because in the first years there is too much moisture in the , what was for me freshly laid floor. After hay is removed the plastic is removed and the floor allowed to dry out. Once properly dried I stack the hay onto the floor but because it is impervious I again lightly sprinkle the floor with dry hay to stop new hay from sweating on the smooth surface. I would only use about 5 to 10 damaged bales to put on the whole of the floor, but it is only sprinkled on the floor where I am about to place bundles.

I realise that this method would not suit all but timber flooring here is prohibitively expensive and I doubt would carry a 10 tonne loader or a fully loaded semi trailer at 9ton axle loading.

The timber floor in Ontario would provide useful ventilation for the hay on the floor.

My knowledge of hemlock is as a poison for witches and executioners but I know that is derived from the herb not the tree.

Is hemlock a hardwood, or have great structural strength?

We seldom see any North American timber here except Douglas Fir or Oregon Pine . A mate of mine has accumulated a sizeable quantity, a couple of cords, of Spruce that despite being a conifer (usually regarded here as inferior softwood) is quite hard and costs a kings ransom here if you could source it.

Only very old sheds here have wooden floors, usually from the horse and cart days. But then again we exported our prime hardwood to be cut into blocks and pave English city streets like brickpaving. In fact in the 1960's the main shopping street in Perth still had some areas with these "Jarrah" (the variety of tree) blocks under the asphalt.


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## ontario hay man

Ya hemlock is hardwood and stinkin hard. I make all my wagons with it. Also use it for all barn floors and beams etc. I buy it cheap from a Mennonite (not sure if you have them characters down there but they are kinda like amish). We use spruce for building houses or shops but thats about it.


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## Teslan

What do I put on my hay barn floors? Nothin. Just dirt. The hay never spoils. It's a product of my location and environment.


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## Coondle

We do not have the variety or quantity of timber here a product of our dry climate.

Timber flooring would cost many times more than doing it in construction grade reinforced concrete!

When in the US and Canada I could not believe the amount of logs at various sawmills and chip mills or the amount of plywood you use in construction.

A 8 foot x 4 foot sheet of 3/4 inch ply costs around $50 for interior non-structural grade.

Know about Mennonites ans Amish, do not have them here as far as I know. More a function of religious persecution in England leading to settlement of the US by religious refugees some of whom have retained the religion that saw them persecuted. Australia was settled for three purposes: The first to keep the French from gaining territory, to provide a place for England to store felons and convicts that due to their harsh laws they had an oversupply and the third is little known , to protect a supply of ships masts. Earlier exploration had found Norfolk Island a island in the Pacific nearly 1000 miles East of Oz, and having a tall straight pine tree native to the place. At the time the British navy was the No 1 in the world and in keeping with all navies of the time was dependent on Baltic Pine for ships masts and spars. Unfortunately for the Brits the Baltic was in the hands of the French and France's allies. Stocks of masts and spars were dwindling, tall straight pine trees were needed but again unfortunately for the Brits Norfolk pine is not strong enough.

Says a lot, the US was founded on refugee religious types, Australia for Convicts.

Despite a dry climate, the soils here have more than enough water to spoil hay placed unprotected on it. The hay sort of sucks the moisture up and mould forms in under a week , even when placed on the ground in a shed that is 50 years old.


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## somedevildawg

Good info coondle, Mexicans have been doing it SOB  for years like that, ready-mix trucks are scarce there....


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## enos

Asphalt


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## Coondle

Asphalt is a pricey item here, has to come from about 60 miles away but is very good for a floor for grain storage as apparently does not sweat like concrete.

Had something focus my mind the other day when at my hay shed there was a "banded gwardar" (also spelt gwarder) of about 1.2 metres or 4 feet long. Gwardars come as speckled, plain, brown, yellow, and green as well as banded ie bands of the "usual" colour with black bands, each band on "my"snake about 100mm or 4 inches wide in yellow and black with a black head.

It was lurking at first under some scrap items next to e hay storage area, where I saw about 1/2 a metre (18 inches) sliding out of sight. I made a mental note that I had no immediate intention of exploring in that scrap pile.

A few moments later it headed out of the pile and along under a gate at the corner of the hay storage toward a person at the end of the gate, I told him "snake!" and to get away. To his credit he did as bid. It then turned around and went close by me into the stack of hay. Again a mental note made to not try and unstack that bit of hay right now! Although about 15 minutes later took some top packs off the stack to load for a customer.

According to a range of authorities the Gwardar is about the 9th or 10 th most venomous snake in the world. Australia has 20 or 21 out of the top 25. Venom strength is measured as the amount to kill a mouse, ie the lower the number the stronger the venom.

Kept well clear of this one, gwardars accounting for 6 of the last 10 snake deaths in Western Australia. About 70 % of snakebites are men and then most are trying to kill or catch the snake. Many of those bitten are also affected by alcohol. Good mixture drunk and a venomous snake!!!!

The venom is neurotoxic and attacks the blood. Gwardars are highly active, prefer retreat but will stand its ground and will appear to attack if you are between it and refuge.

Could not find a photograph of a yellow/ black one but a local has published a photo on page 6 of:http://www.toodyaynats.org.au/.../TN...0No.%208%20AUG
Information on venom strength can be found at: home.iprimus.com.au/foo7snake.html
and at: https://whatcanilearntoday.wordpress.com/tag/venom/

I think this one is a girl, but did not get up close and personal to find out. Girls tend to keep to a territory and boys wander about looking for the girls. Snake tracks have been at the shed for a ouple of months now hence my belief a girl.


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## somedevildawg

That's interesting coondle, for some reason, I thought y'all to be like Hawaii, excluded from Mr. No shoulders range......the policy we use here at the farm, "the only good snake....is a dead snake" with the exception of King snakes....we let them slither, sometimes oak snakes, but it depends on who finds them....


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