# Best disc mower-conditioner



## jd-tom

I'm looking at trading my mo-co by the end of this year. I currently have a NH 499 12' center-pivot machine. I really like it and would purchase another one if I could but it was discontinued in 2012. Been pricing out a new NH 14' H7150 online and was shocked at how much they want for a new sickle machine. I do mostly alfalfa with my mo-co and really like the clean cut I get with a sickle machine. But just for comparison I did a build-and-price on a new NH 313 discbine and it is basically the same price as a sickle machine.

So now that has got me to thinking about getting a disc mo-co instead. So that's what my question is - what brand/model is the best one available right now for mostly alfalfa cutting? I am absolutely color-blind for this machine - I pretty much have any brand dealer within 30-40 miles from me. MacDon, JD, Case-IH, New Holland and MF/Hesston are all fair game as far as I'm concerned. I think there is even a Vermeer dealer not too far from me.

Some downsides that I have heard over the years about using a disc mo-co in alfalfa have been:

1. Doesn't have the nice clean cut of a sickle machine and thus retards the regrowth of the next cutting of alfalfa

2. In light crops, it doesn't get all the hay thrown into the conditioner rolls

3. Higher maintenance costs

Possibly some or all of these concerns have been addressed with the newest machines now available? That's why I'm asking questions.

Are steel rolls or rubber rolls better on these machines? I have had good luck with the chevron-type rolls in my NH 499 over the years.

I think most (if not all) brands have the double gearbox swivel-type hitch now. Is the drawbar or 2-point type the best?

I think some brands now use hydraulic drive vs. mechanical drive - is one or the other better?

Any other options that I should look for on these machines?

Thanks a lot for any input!


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## Josh in WNY

My experience in the newer mowers is limited as well as with alfalfa, so take my response with a grain of salt.

As far as getting a clean cut, I think you can do pretty well if you have sharp knives and properly adjust the mower. In lighter crops, the mower tends to blow the crop down in front of the blades which can lead to a rough cut or missed spots, but from what I remember of alfalfa, it usually grows back in thick enough to not have this be too much of a problem. There are also some tricks to mowing in lighter crops as well.

As far as maintenance costs, disc mocos can be more expensive to repair when something does do wrong, but generally there is very little maintenance other than regular greasing and checking/changing the oil in the cutterbar. Replacing damaged or worn out knives is really quick (as long as you have the parts on hand).

For conditioning rolls, we have always had rubber-on-rubber or ticor rolls on our farm, but I have used a mower for another farmer that had rubber-on-steel and it worked really well across a variety of hay types. I have very limited experience with the flail systems, but the general rule I've heard is to not use them on alfalfa.

I think the 2pt hitches are nicer for ease of use as well as wear/tear on the machine. You also get rid of the expensive CV-joint setup used on drawbar style models.

I have no experience with hydraulic drive mowers, but would worry about springing a leak and hosing down both the machine as well as a part of my hayfield with hydraulic oil. If you have a decent ear, you can usually hear when things are getting worn or not quite right with a machine long before it blows apart.

One option that you might want to consider looking for is the wide/thin fin kit that NH has (not sure if any of the other brands have anything similar). This would let you spread the swath of hay out wider behind the machine to get a quicker dry down (assuming you don't put it directly into a windrow). Short of this, I would compare the machines width of cut to the width of the swath to see how well it spreads things out.

There, I think I got everything you asked, but let me know if I missed anything... again, take it for what it's worth. I'm a small time hay grower using older equipment and not growing the alfalfa like you are.


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## Tx Jim

jd-tom

If you want to trade for a Mo-Co you'll need to change colors as Mo-Co is a JD trademark name same as Haybine is a NH trademark name


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## jd-tom

Yeah, I know - but its kinda like everyone calls facial tissue a Kleenex no matter what brand it is....


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## Trillium Farm

Tx Jim said:


> jd-tom
> 
> If you want to trade for a Mo-Co you'll need to change colors as Mo-Co is a JD trademark name same as Haybine is a NH trademark name


Jim the way they operate these days they oughtta be called Mo-Fo


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## endrow

We bought a 1383 Hesston/Massey it is 13 foot center pivot with steel rolls. That new RAZOR BAR cuts very clean. We did have to switch to a different twist degree on the knives for the fifth cutting to get a clean cut on the 5th cutting but it can be done. Probably the first time in nearly 50 years a new Holland machine did not cut the hay on our farms. If you compare it to any of the machines in the same class you can see it's much more heavily built. We looke the new New Holland 13 foot center pivot that just came out over very carefully some places we just thought was built a little bit too lightly. At least that's what my son thought Ida prolly just bought another new Holland but I'm really happy with this machine. So far the steel rolls have hydraulic pressure that can be adjusted with just two fingers turning a dial impressed us the most, much better drying in all Crops and we were pleasantly surprised that it did not damage the alfalfa like some people said it would.


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## jd-tom

endrow said:


> We bought a 1383 Hesston/Massey it is 13 foot center pivot with steel rolls. That new RAZOR BAR cuts very clean. We did have to switch to a different twist degree on the knives for the fifth cutting to get a clean cut on the 5th cutting but it can be done. Probably the first time in nearly 50 years a new Holland machine did not cut the hay on our farms. If you compare it to any of the machines in the same class you can see it's much more heavily built. We looke the new New Holland 13 foot center pivot that just came out over very carefully some places we just thought was built a little bit too lightly. At least that's what my son thought Ida prolly just bought another new Holland but I'm really happy with this machine. So far the steel rolls have hydraulic pressure that can be adjusted with just two fingers turning a dial impressed us the most, much better drying in all Crops and we were pleasantly surprised that it did not damage the alfalfa like some people said it would.


Did you get the optional "feed rolls" to help get the lighter hay into the conditioning rolls?


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## FarmerCline

endrow said:


> We bought a 1383 Hesston/Massey it is 13 foot center pivot with steel rolls. That new RAZOR BAR cuts very clean. We did have to switch to a different twist degree on the knives for the fifth cutting to get a clean cut on the 5th cutting but it can be done. Probably the first time in nearly 50 years a new Holland machine did not cut the hay on our farms. If you compare it to any of the machines in the same class you can see it's much more heavily built. We looke the new New Holland 13 foot center pivot that just came out over very carefully some places we just thought was built a little bit too lightly. At least that's what my son thought Ida prolly just bought another new Holland but I'm really happy with this machine. So far the steel rolls have hydraulic pressure that can be adjusted with just two fingers turning a dial impressed us the most, much better drying in all Crops and we were pleasantly surprised that it did not damage the alfalfa like some people said it would.


 I'm thinking about buying the 10 foot center pivot Hesston......not sure if I really need the 13 footer.

This will be my first discbine, I have been using a NH haybine. Little bit nervous about taking the plunge into a discbine since later cutting of grass and alfalfa here tend to be light from summer drought and I have heard a lot about problems getting a clean cut it light crops.

On your 1383 Hesston how easy is it to adjust the cutting height? I typically don't like to cut orchard lower than 3.5-4 inches and it seems like most discbine literature talk about cutting very low. Can I still get a clean cut at 4 inches?


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## Thorim

I have always thought the John Deere 830 moco's were good machines but in doing some research I am really liking the Vermeer mc3300 it is a center pivot has a 10'5'' cutting width only takes 75 [email protected] has some nice features and they are at least 5,000 dollars cheaper then a John Deere 830 moco.

http://www2.vermeer.com/vermeer/NA/en/N/equipment/mower_conditioners/mc3300

http://www.ag-power.com/new-product/new-products/john-deere/john-deere-agricultural/mower-conditioners/john-deere-830-center-pivot-mower-conditioner


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## endrow

On the Hesston Massey cutterbar angle and the skids shoe adjustment are very easy to change. The standard equipment can be adjusted for 1.25 - 3.25 inches cutting height. To cut higher you would need optional skid shoes. Would it cut a thin drought-stricken Crop clean at 4 inches.? I do not know because I did not try that


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## swmnhay

Thorim said:


> I have always thought the John Deere 830 moco's were good machines but in doing some research I am really liking the Vermeer mc3300 it is a center pivot has a 10'5'' cutting width only takes 75 [email protected] has some nice features and they are at least 5,000 dollars cheaper then a John Deere 830 moco.
> 
> http://www2.vermeer.com/vermeer/NA/en/N/equipment/mower_conditioners/mc3300
> 
> http://www.ag-power.com/new-product/new-products/john-deere/john-deere-agricultural/mower-conditioners/john-deere-830-center-pivot-mower-conditioner


they have been trying to talk me into tradeing my Vermeer 1030 for the new model.Some of the improvements are the suspension system,a charged system vs spring.The turtles are larger diameter so all the internal components are running slower speed but still have the same tip speed on the blade.It also has shear hubs,I think around $30 to replace.


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## hay rake

tom i think mowers are like everything today the all have their good and bad points. we run new holland but did have one hesston disk mower. i say mower but mean mower conditioner, where i come from they are one and the same. we run 10 foot and 16 foot new hollands. the 10 foot mowers are bullet proof and mow pretty no matter the conditions. if they are not you have bad blades or are doing something wrong. the 16s are another matter. even when knives are perfect in some conditions they mow ragged. the conditions are damp, heavy dew and right after rain. i believe this comes from the 3 end units having to throw hay in and stalling the center knives. we know this and mow accordingly. we have never had a 10 foot cutter bar apart, can't say that for the 16s the are way more fragile. still i would stay with new holland. i have seen a gehl hit things that would destroy a new holland and keep going but i don't like the end product, or running them. i have a neighbor that runs jd and nh. he says if you put them together you'd have a hell of a mower. i myself would never own a mower that did not have a unitized cutter bar again. replacing a unit is a lot easier and cheaper than a whole cutter bar.


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## Hokelund Farm

jd-tom said:


> I'm looking at trading my mo-co by the end of this year. I currently have a NH 499 12' center-pivot machine. I really like it and would purchase another one if I could but it was discontinued in 2012. Been pricing out a new NH 14' H7150 online and was shocked at how much they want for a new sickle machine. I do mostly alfalfa with my mo-co and really like the clean cut I get with a sickle machine. But just for comparison I did a build-and-price on a new NH 313 discbine and it is basically the same price as a sickle machine.
> 
> So now that has got me to thinking about getting a disc mo-co instead. So that's what my question is - what brand/model is the best one available right now for mostly alfalfa cutting? I am absolutely color-blind for this machine - I pretty much have any brand dealer within 30-40 miles from me. MacDon, JD, Case-IH, New Holland and MF/Hesston are all fair game as far as I'm concerned. I think there is even a Vermeer dealer not too far from me.
> 
> Some downsides that I have heard over the years about using a disc mo-co in alfalfa have been:
> 
> 1. Doesn't have the nice clean cut of a sickle machine and thus retards the regrowth of the next cutting of alfalfa
> 
> 2. In light crops, it doesn't get all the hay thrown into the conditioner rolls
> 
> 3. Higher maintenance costs
> 
> Possibly some or all of these concerns have been addressed with the newest machines now available? That's why I'm asking questions.
> 
> Are steel rolls or rubber rolls better on these machines? I have had good luck with the chevron-type rolls in my NH 499 over the years.
> 
> I think most (if not all) brands have the double gearbox swivel-type hitch now. Is the drawbar or 2-point type the best?
> 
> I think some brands now use hydraulic drive vs. mechanical drive - is one or the other better?
> 
> Any other options that I should look for on these machines?
> 
> Thanks a lot for any input!


We are having a Vermeer Open House today at 11:00 if you can make it up to Glencoe, MN. Lunch is provided!

Jungclaus Implement


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## swmnhay

Hokelund Farm said:


> We are having a Vermeer Open House today at 11:00 if you can make it up to Glencoe, MN. Lunch is provided!
> 
> Jungclaus Implement


Drove by there 2 weeks ago on the way to the cities to the ice fishing show.Not my normal route,picked up a friend in Wood Lake so took 212 into the cities.Did notice they had a pretty nice looking building there.


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## Hokelund Farm

Yeah nice showroom and shop. Vermeer was a big reason I took the job.


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## bluefarmer

I had a Jd mechanic tell me once, that NH had a better disc mower than JD


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## Thorim

swmnhay said:


> they have been trying to talk me into tradeing my Vermeer 1030 for the new model.Some of the improvements are the suspension system,a charged system vs spring.The turtles are larger diameter so all the internal components are running slower speed but still have the same tip speed on the blade.It also has shear hubs,I think around $30 to replace.


The price the Vermeer dealer quoted me on a mc3300 was 26,000 with zero% interest or 25,000 cash that offer was good until the end of the year. My only concern is there are only three agriculture Vermeer dealer in Michigan and the nearest dealer is an hour and twenty minutes away


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## Vol

bluefarmer said:


> I had a Jd mechanic tell me once, that NH had a better disc mower than JD


Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions.....but I do not think that is presently true. I do not think that New Holland is as good a product as it once was....again, that is MY opinion. If you will read thru some threads on the later model NH disc mowers on here, I think that you might be surprised. I presently own both manufacturers in conditioners.

Regards, Mike


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## hay rake

welcome to my world. we call a dealer that's an hour, hour and a half away close. my big baler stuff comes from five states and 9 hours away


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## Thorim

Vol said:


> Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions.....but I do not think that is presently true. I do not think that New Holland is as good a product as it once was....again, that is MY opinion. If you will read thru some threads on the later model NH disc mowers on here, I think that you might be surprised. I presently own both manufacturers in conditioners.
> 
> Regards, Mike


That word "best" is a very subjective word, especially when you factor in brand loyalty I tend to be color blind and like what gives me the most bang for the buck what ever color that may be.


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## Hayman1

Thorim said:


> That word "best" is a very subjective word, especially when you factor in brand loyalty I tend to be color blind and like what gives me the most bang for the buck what ever color that may be.


i really am just checking Chrome. loaded on a new pc with win 10 and this is the first time the quote function has worked for me in about 1.5 years


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## luke strawwalker

bluefarmer said:


> I had a Jd mechanic tell me once, that NH had a better disc mower than JD


For straight disk mowers (3 point) that's probably true... the JD 3 point plain mower is just a Kuhn painted JD Green... gearbed type with all the idler gears between disks.

Not sure WHO builds JD's Mo-Co bars... it's quite a bit different from the Kuhn 3 point mowers...

Personally I like the module design (NH) over the gearbox cutterbar type (Kuhn, Krone, etc).... Both work great when they're running, but where the real difference comes up is with repairs and longevity...

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker

Thorim said:


> The price the Vermeer dealer quoted me on a mc3300 was 26,000 with zero% interest or 25,000 cash that offer was good until the end of the year. My only concern is there are only three agriculture Vermeer dealer in Michigan and the nearest dealer is an hour and twenty minutes away


That's not that bad... my "regular" NH dealer is uptown from our other farm 90 miles west, about 1:20 minutes away...

We have one NH dealer closer (23 miles or about 30 minutes away), but I don't trade with them much... I'd rather trade with my "regular" dealer, even though it's farther...

Later! OL JR


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## swmnhay

My Vermeer dealer is 50 miles away,I stopped by as I was driveing by a couple times this yr and got some blades but other then that I never had to make a trip for parts.When I stop at the Vermeer dealer there is a good chance the owner will come out of his office and talk with me also the mechanic,book keeper any other employee.This doesn't happen at the large chain dealers unless you spend a million a yr there.I guess I'll drive the 50 miles to someone that appritiates my business then 8 miles to someone that expects my business.


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## endrow

If you were broke down and needed the part at 4:30 in the afternoon, hay down and rain coming which dealer would you go to lol. I only say that because we are the same scenario with dealers here and I know where I go when the sky is dark and the rows are long.


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## swmnhay

endrow said:


> If you were broke down and needed the part at 4:30 in the afternoon, hay down and rain coming which dealer would you go to lol. I only say that because we are the same scenario with dealers here and I know where I go when the sky is dark and the rows are long.


if I,m broke down at 5 in afternoon my deale r would meet me 1/2 way with the parts if it was a emergency.If it was 7pm and rain comeing tomorrow id call my mechanic and he woul bring the part and help me fix it if I needed the help.It's not about the color it's the dealer and the mega stores really don't care to much about hay eq they care about the $400,000 combines and tractors


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## mlappin

endrow said:


> If you were broke down and needed the part at 4:30 in the afternoon, hay down and rain coming which dealer would you go to lol. I only say that because we are the same scenario with dealers here and I know where I go when the sky is dark and the rows are long.


I'd call my dealer and they'd either leave the parts outside in the box or depending on who was working meet me halfway.

This summer when a bearing went out on my round baler they didn't stock the bearing but the owner of the place offered to help me take the entire roller out of a new baler so I could get back to baling hay.

So sticking with NH for awhile longer me thinks.


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## FCF

A good dealer can go a very long way toward making a "bad" experience piece of machinery bearable, a bad dealer only mkes it worse.


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## Hayman1

FCF said:


> A good dealer can go a very long way toward making a "bad" experience piece of machinery bearable, a bad dealer only mkes it worse.


nuff said, right on.


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## 1eyedjack

I love this post . I have a local kubota , vermeer dealer within minutes of me . Biggest bunch of rude people it must be on the application if u check the box that you are an ---hole they hire you on the spot. 
How they stay in bussinness is beyond me.

The local jd dealer is getting snobie too. Bought out by one the mega dealers . They all know me there personal. My dad would trade tractors with them just to having something to do. Once had a new 6400 on the lot for over a year before he picked it up. The new general manger won't give me the time of day. Tried to get him to demo a new baler on some rye different excuse every time I asked. I asked local nh dealer brought a new baler with 0 bales it out 2 days later. U bet the green baler left with them. It means a lot when can get service after the sale . In the case service before the sale.

I think I sometimes it's just me but I work hard for the money I earn at my full time job then spend it all on my addiction of farming . It took me a long time for me to understand why my dad worked 7 days a week to run a dairy farm . But a the end of the day there is a lot of compassion . So when the dealers treat you with respect and understand the meaning of it and why you do it. It makes you feel better as person not a number.


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## Vol

1eyedjack said:


> I love this post . I have a local kubota , vermeer dealer within minutes of me . Biggest bunch of rude people it must be on the application if u check the box that you are an ---hole they hire you on the spot.
> How they stay in bussinness is beyond me.
> 
> The local jd dealer is getting snobie too. Bought out by one the mega dealers . They all know me there personal. My dad would trade tractors with them just to having something to do. Once had a new 6400 on the lot for over a year before he picked it up. The new general manger won't give me the time of day. Tried to get him to demo a new baler on some rye different excuse every time I asked. I asked local nh dealer brought a new baler with 0 bales it out 2 days later. U bet the green baler left with them. It means a lot when can get service after the sale . In the case service before the sale.
> 
> I think I sometimes it's just me but I work hard for the money I earn at my full time job then spend it all on my addiction of farming . It took me a long time for me to understand why my dad worked 7 days a week to run a dairy farm . But a the end of the day there is a lot of compassion . So when the dealers treat you with respect and understand the meaning of it and why you do it. It makes you feel better as person not a number.


I do understand exactly what you are saying jack.....but its not the dealers.....it is our country and what the people have evolved into....yes, every now and then you can find a old school/respectful business operator, but those will soon pass too as time moves forward. It is a disgraceful age in a country that is headed downhill on a fast sled.

Regards, Mike


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## 1eyedjack

Well Mike , You are correct this the way the world roles these days all about the dollar. As soon as wal mart is open Christmas Day . The 25th day of dec will be just another day for the world . I give it till 2020 . Sad but true.


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## endrow

I can be at any dealer in Lancaster PA
in 45mins or less. When it comes to new JD equipment in our area JD protects the dealers territory you got to buy new Jd equipment from your salesman. Agco, NH,orCaseIh. I can buy ,,got my pick of 3 places to buy anyone of those brands and not drive out of my way.They are all good dealers with excellent service,people and sales.Very competitive we are spoiled.Small dealers thing of the past .


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## luke strawwalker

endrow said:


> If you were broke down and needed the part at 4:30 in the afternoon, hay down and rain coming which dealer would you go to lol. I only say that because we are the same scenario with dealers here and I know where I go when the sky is dark and the rows are long.


Doesn't really matter anyway because the "local" guy won't have it and will have to order it anyway... so why bother...

Heck they won't even break into a pallet that comes in on a truck from UPS or something if it's after 2 pm... they leave it for the next day... they get in NO RUSH WHATSOEVER...

If you don't "stock" the parts you need yourself ahead of time by buying spares, you're just SOL and they don't care...

Later! OL JR


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## mike10

I am reaching the end of my career and wake up most days and say to myself, Why do I want to continue to fight the battle? Between the government regulations and the demands placed by the mfg the fun has gone out of the business. And Luke, we are a small dealer that does stock parts. I know your intention was not to lump us all into one category, but there are still some us left. We chose to remain a small dealer regardless of what the mfg wants but there is a price to be paid. Vol is correct that the end of the small dealer is upon us.


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## mlappin

mlappin said:


> I'd call my dealer and they'd either leave the parts outside in the box or depending on who was working meet me halfway.
> 
> This summer when a bearing went out on my round baler they didn't stock the bearing but the owner of the place offered to help me take the entire roller out of a new baler so I could get back to baling hay.
> 
> So sticking with NH for awhile longer me thinks.


I should add that this bearing went out late Saturday afternoon, I ran home logged into NH's site and they claimed none of the local dealers had it. Called the one that I normally do business with, this was also county fair week and that is where Ron was, texted him the part number, he got back to me yet that night saying that the system was actually right and he didn't have it and thats when the offer came in to pull an entire idler roller of a new baler came up.

Next morning at breakfast it came up a neighbor just replaced both bearings on one of the rollers in his baler, he was done baling for a week anyways and said I could pull one of those, came right off and I was back to baling by noon.

Dealer did everything he could for me above and beyond what could be expected, NH let me down because they say this assembly doesn't need to be stocked even though every idler roller on that baler uses it and its that oddball size where you have to buy the entire assembly.

Bought three of em, one new one to replace on the neighbors baler, one new one for the other side of that roller on my baler and one new one to sit on my shelf and hopefully collect a lot of dust.


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## glasswrongsize

Upon reading the posts about problems with dealers, I feel VERY lucky to have dealers to which I have access. Maybe it's just the general-mentality of the people here. At least from a parts standpoint they are great. Most may recognize my face, but don't know my name&#8230; only because I'm a cash customer and am not frequent.
The Deere dealership was just as happy (or at least acted like it&#8230;which is good enough for me) to help me with my old 14T baler and ordering the assorted small parts and needles as they were to help the other bigger guys.
The old Case/New Holland/New Idea etc&#8230;dealer is same way. Went in last year needing parts for PTO driveline, and of course, I did not have all the info needed for the parts man. There were two possibilities for a specific part. He insisted on sending them both with me, and upon returning would charge me for the one that I didn't return. He didn't know me from Adam and I explained that I wouldn't be back up that way for a week or two. "No problem" says he. I returned in about 3 weeks, apologized for the excess delay, and returned the unused part. He had written a note to himself about a guy in a "billy goat" hat and mustache to remind himself of my description; he took his note down, threw it away and I paid for the part.
My local Massey/Gehl/Krone dealer is just as helpful.
I reckon I'd better count my blessings of living in a low population/depressed area&#8230;the people are still good people for the most part.
73, Mark


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## endrow

mike10 said:


> I am reaching the end of my career and wake up most days and say to myself, Why do I want to continue to fight the battle? Between the government regulations and the demands placed by the mfg the fun has gone out of the business. And Luke, we are a small dealer that does stock parts. I know your intention was not to lump us all into one category, but there are still some us left. We chose to remain a small dealer regardless of what the mfg wants but there is a price to be paid. Vol is correct that the end of the small dealer is upon us.


You are fortunate to be operating.I live less than a half hour from where Ed Nolt created the baler which was the beginning of New Holland Equipment. There are no small New Holland dealers in the area anymore


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## mike10

mlappin said:


> Dealer did everything he could for me above and beyond what could be expected, NH let me down because they say this assembly doesn't need to be stocked even though every idler roller on that baler uses it and its that oddball size where you have to buy the entire assembly.


Just to clarify, NH does not hold a gun to a dealer's head and tell them what to stock. Yes, it is a common practice and considered good business practice to not stock parts which do not trun a certain amount of times a year. If we listened to NH and these other buisness gurus we would end up sending hafl our parts back. It is the dealers choice on what they stock and what practice they choose to follow.

All the mfg's have the same philosophy for stocking parts. Their concern is keeping the dealer viable and one way to achieve that is for the dealer not tying up capital sitting in parts that do not move. I think if you find a well capitalized dealer you will find a dealer which stocks parts because he can afford to have the parts which is the most profitable part of the business.

If you want a challenge then become a parts person at a dealership. It is by far the most difficult job in the buisness.


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## mlappin

mike10 said:


> Just to clarify, NH does not hold a gun to a dealer's head and tell them what to stock. Yes, it is a common practice and considered good business practice to not stock parts which do not trun a certain amount of times a year. If we listened to NH and these other buisness gurus we would end up sending hafl our parts back. It is the dealers choice on what they stock and what practice they choose to follow.
> 
> All the mfg's have the same philosophy for stocking parts. Their concern is keeping the dealer viable and one way to achieve that is for the dealer not tying up capital sitting in parts that do not move. I think if you find a well capitalized dealer you will find a dealer which stocks parts because he can afford to have the parts which is the most profitable part of the business.
> 
> If you want a challenge then become a parts person at a dealership. It is by far the most difficult job in the buisness.


Oh I know, but for as many NH 7XX series balers that are around you'd think at least one place out of three would have one sitting on the shelf. Or maybe I have just enough bales on mine now the bearings are nearing their life expectancy.

I have quite a list of stuff coming in next year for replacement/warranty purposes on the outdoor boilers I'm selling now.


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## mike10

If I remember right it was the drive roll bearing that you had fail. The drive roll bearings have a low failure rate. In addition to the low failure rate the bearings are different between models. I can certainly see where a dealer using the common business system, who stocks only parts that turn 2 to 3 times a year, would not stock that bearing. This is one of those situations where the computer programs can not anticipate what a good parts person can. Even a good parts person will occasionally get caught with their pants down.


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## PaMike

mike10 said:


> Just to clarify, NH does not hold a gun to a dealer's head and tell them what to stock. Yes, it is a common practice and considered good business practice to not stock parts which do not trun a certain amount of times a year. If we listened to NH and these other buisness gurus we would end up sending hafl our parts back. It is the dealers choice on what they stock and what practice they choose to follow.
> 
> All the mfg's have the same philosophy for stocking parts. Their concern is keeping the dealer viable and one way to achieve that is for the dealer not tying up capital sitting in parts that do not move. I think if you find a well capitalized dealer you will find a dealer which stocks parts because he can afford to have the parts which is the most profitable part of the business.
> 
> If you want a challenge then become a parts person at a dealership. It is by far the most difficult job in the buisness.


It isn't just the ag industry. The regulations, threats of lawsuits and general hassle really make a business owner wonder. I am only 35 so I have some years to go in our business (non ag business), but if I make it another 10 years, I think I would really have to think hard about not cashing out and walking away.

Our biggest customer, a company everyone on this forum has heard of just announced that they are going to 90 Day pay. 10 years ago they paid net 30, then it was net 60. Now some bean counter thought net 90 was a good idea... No one takes pride in doing the right thing, the nice thing, or their best anymore...


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## endrow

As far as CNH we're lucky because they have a parts warehouse in nearby Mountville Pennsylvania. If I call my dealer by 12:30 in the afternoon if they don't have the part , they send a driver to the Mountville warehouse everyday at 3:30 in the afternoon to pick up parts. A guy that works in the parts department at the dealer drives by my place on his way home every day and he will swing by and put the parts on the workbench in the shop.


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## glasswrongsize

PaMike said:


> Our biggest customer, a company everyone on this forum has heard of just announced that they are going to 90 Day pay. 10 years ago they paid net 30, then it was net 60. Now some bean counter thought net 90 was a good idea... No one takes pride in doing the right thing, the nice thing, or their best anymore...


Had a customer like that for awhile. It is a HUGE company. A buddy of mine also done business with them. He urged me to jack my prices 11.2 percent and give a 10% discount for prompt payment within 10 business days. Worked like a champ, got paid in a timely manner always.I didn't have the capitol to carry their business and could not have afforded to have them into me for 90 days worth of sales but I could stand 10 days worth. They had enough money to burn a wet mule, but wanted to use mine for free. Worked for my arrangement, but might not work for yours. The idea is worth exactly what was paid for it.

73, Mark


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## luke strawwalker

mike10 said:


> Just to clarify, NH does not hold a gun to a dealer's head and tell them what to stock. Yes, it is a common practice and considered good business practice to not stock parts which do not trun a certain amount of times a year. If we listened to NH and these other buisness gurus we would end up sending hafl our parts back. It is the dealers choice on what they stock and what practice they choose to follow.
> 
> All the mfg's have the same philosophy for stocking parts. Their concern is keeping the dealer viable and one way to achieve that is for the dealer not tying up capital sitting in parts that do not move. I think if you find a well capitalized dealer you will find a dealer which stocks parts because he can afford to have the parts which is the most profitable part of the business.
> 
> If you want a challenge then become a parts person at a dealership. It is by far the most difficult job in the buisness.


I can believe it, but the question I have is then WHY do they put some of the idiots that they do behind the parts counter?? LOL

True story. I was helping my BIL in Indiana last spring plant corn and beans... He had just gotten started in a new field, unfolded and took off and made a round and was starting the second round and I noticed he had a press wheel locked up on one row, dragging, and probably plowing out the seed. I flagged him down and we checked, thinking maybe it was just a rock lodged between the "V" closing wheels or something simple like that. No, locked up bearing. SO he sent me to town to get a replacement closing wheel assembly. I go into the local big NH dealer, who also sells Kinze planters (which up until pretty recently virtually all the ground engaging parts were identical to Deere) I finally get some help from some guy that ain't the brightest bulb on the tree... I tell him I need a "V" closing wheel for a 1770 JD planter... then I have to spend another couple minutes explaining what it is, what it does, and where it goes on the planter... Then he looks at me like I'm daft for wanting a JD part... so I tell him "It's the same as the V wheels on a 2000 series Kinze planter (IIRC). So he starts looking it up, but he doesn't know how to run the computer. After about five minutes, he FINALLY brings up a diagram of the planter unit... and after asking me AGAIN what part it is and having me point it out to him on the computer, he cannot find the number-- "It's not on the list"... I had already told him when he started farting around on the computer, "Ya know, last year I came in for a couple of those for his old planter (with the stem-type bearings, the newer ones are the "bolt on" style bearings) they had a whole pallet of the things upstairs in the parts storage area-- can't we just go back and look" and all I got was more dumb looks...

FINALLY, an older parts guy comes out from the back and he asks him. He steps over, looks at the drawing and list, and then grabs the mouse and SCROLLS DOWN to reveal the bottom of the list, where the part is listed right there plain as day. SO, now with the "magic number", he goes in back and is gone like another five minutes... he finally comes out with two closing wheels... one is the stem-type bearing (held on by the roll pin) and the other is the hollow bearing that a bolt goes through into the closing wheel frame. I point out that the bolt on type is what I asked for, and I need a couple of them, and a rebuild kit for the one that's locked up. After another fifteen minutes he FINALLY gets everything I need on the counter and entered into the system and a bill pulled up for me to sign and I finally get out on my way...

I literally rebuilt the locked up one sitting in the pickup on the turn row in less time than it took this IDIOT to find the [email protected] things and get me a pair in the friggin' store... Wonder if he'd ever even SEEN a planter before... course all he'd need to do is go out on the lot during a break and take a look... Geez...

Later! OL J R


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## mike10

We all had to learn and it gets frustrating when you have to be the teacher, but I have been in this business for over 40 years and I still struggle trying to make out some of the parts books. You just can not replace experience, but sooner or later we all must step aside and let the next generation learn.


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## deadmoose

mike10 said:


> We all had to learn and it gets frustrating when you have to be the teacher, but I have been in this business for over 40 years and I still struggle trying to make out some of the parts books. You just can not replace experience, but sooner or later we all must step aside and let the next generation learn.


Amen. The more YOU do, the less that truly gets accomplished. When it comes to training newbies. Gotta cut the chord sooner or later.


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## Vol

mike10 said:


> We all had to learn and it gets frustrating when you have to be the teacher, but I have been in this business for over 40 years and I still struggle trying to make out some of the parts books.


I can see that.....especially when you get use to a certain method of operation and then someone comes along and does a "update" to the operation and one has to learn a operating process all over again.

Regards, Mike


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## Josh in WNY

mike10 said:


> We all had to learn and it gets frustrating when you have to be the teacher, but I have been in this business for over 40 years and I still struggle trying to make out some of the parts books. You just can not replace experience, but sooner or later we all must step aside and let the next generation learn.


I don't mind being the teacher, as long as the student is trying to learn. I've had experiences like Strawwalker's at the parts counter too, but sometimes the person was genuinely trying to help and just didn't have the experience and sometimes they just didn't care. Also, in the case of parts for the stacker wagon, even the experienced parts guys don't know anything because they are pretty rare in my area.

I usually take as much advantage of the online parts catalogs as I can and try and have the part numbers I need ready for the people at the counter. The experienced parts guys appreciate not having to waste time searching through things and I enjoy not having to waste time waiting for the "student" to figure out how to read the diagram. (The good students usually will ask what the part is for and what it does and I happily explain it to them, the bad students just punch the number in to see if they have it in stock).

By the way, Jd-tom, did you get the answers you needed about mowers? This post has swerved over a couple lanes on the conversation super-highway and I'm not sure a turn signal was used at all!


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## luke strawwalker

Then there was the parts guys at the JD dealer up north of the BIL's... we went up there THREE TIMES during harvest last year to be given short shrift...

First time we went up there after calling, they said they had something in stock and we get there and no joy... Second time the nephew had called and asked if they had something, they said they did, he told them "someone will be right up there for it" and when we got there they were, "no, we don't have that... DID have one but sold it a few minutes ago..." We were like, "WTH, he TOLD YALL to HOLD IT for us!" Third time we went up there and they didn't have it and said another store in their dealer chain did... got down there 30 miles away and no joy, had to go to another competitor store (still JD just not owned by them) to get it...

Last time we went up there after calling and they said they had it, only to find out they didn't, and they sent us to another store, we got rear ended by an idgit in a minivan passing us as we were making a left-hand turn... We'd had the same idiot parts man all those times, so he just pulled his phone out of his pocket and deleted their number from his phone-- "I'm NEVER coming back to this dealership again, so screw 'em..." LOL

Later! OL J R


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## mlappin

mike10 said:


> We all had to learn and it gets frustrating when you have to be the teacher, but I have been in this business for over 40 years and I still struggle trying to make out some of the parts books. You just can not replace experience, but sooner or later we all must step aside and let the next generation learn.


You want real fun, the only way for awhile to get parts for our MF4880 was to use the microfiche, Massey is horrible on some of their parts diagrams anyways but a microfiche just sucks.


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## mlappin

Josh in WNY said:


> I don't mind being the teacher, as long as the student is trying to learn. I've had experiences like Strawwalker's at the parts counter too, but sometimes the person was genuinely trying to help and just didn't have the experience and sometimes they just didn't care. Also, in the case of parts for the stacker wagon, even the experienced parts guys don't know anything because they are pretty rare in my area.
> 
> I usually take as much advantage of the online parts catalogs as I can and try and have the part numbers I need ready for the people at the counter. The experienced parts guys appreciate not having to waste time searching through things and I enjoy not having to waste time waiting for the "student" to figure out how to read the diagram. (The good students usually will ask what the part is for and what it does and I happily explain it to them, the bad students just punch the number in to see if they have it in stock).
> 
> By the way, Jd-tom, did you get the answers you needed about mowers? This post has swerved over a couple lanes on the conversation super-highway and I'm not sure a turn signal was used at all!


We had one guy at the local NH dealer even if you looked everything up yourself, gave em all the correct part numbers, he'd still find a way to screw the pooch.

I don't care if their computer has the part, I tell em to actually go and pull it off the shelf and sit it on the counter before I head that way.


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## Rayg59

they have been trying to talk me into tradeing my Vermeer 1030 for the new model.Some of the improvements are the suspension system,a charged system vs spring.The turtles are larger diameter so all the internal components are running slower speed but still have the same tip speed on the blade.It also has shear hubs,I think around $30 to replace.


deadmoose and endrow like this
 
Like This

I have recently changed over to a Lely(Vermeer) disc mower with steel intermeshing rollers.

In relation to Alfalfa.The old sickle will allways cut the Lucerne(Alfalfa) cleaner and the chevron rollers off the sickle cut hay will allways condition better because of the thinner even spread of product going through.(providing they are adjusted correctly)

The disc machines are terrific to use and cover the country ,but at the cost of conditioning quality and a clean cut.Even a disc mower with chevron rubber rollers ,wont condition as well as the sickle type.

Depends what quality of hay you are aiming to produce.We are aiming at the premium market.

For grass and cereal the disc is the best of course

If you are considering the vermeer ,get a demo of it working ,in particular the effectivness of the hydraulic float/suspension system.Sometimes simple is best.

Im not going to say too much but definately get a demo of the vermeer hydraulics before forking out $$

I have a Lely PC 330r,, google it up

Good Luck with it .

A great site you have here ,interesting to hear of the different hay systems over there.


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## Vol

Ray...welcome to haytalk....we have several Aussies on board here. It sure would be helpful on these well worn eyes if you could make your posts in larger print.... . Thanks and welcome.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Rayg59 said:


> they have been trying to talk me into tradeing my Vermeer 1030 for the new model.Some of the improvements are the suspension system,a charged system vs spring.The turtles are larger diameter so all the internal components are running slower speed but still have the same tip speed on the blade.It also has shear hubs,I think around $30 to replace.
> 
> 
> deadmoose and endrow like this
> Like This
> I have recently changed over to a Lely(Vermeer) disc mower with steel intermeshing rollers.
> In relation to Alfalfa.The old sickle will allways cut the Lucerne(Alfalfa) cleaner and the chevron rollers off the sickle cut hay will allways condition better because of the thinner even spread of product going through.(providing they are adjusted correctly)
> The disc machines are terrific to use and cover the country ,but at the cost of conditioning quality and a clean cut.Even a disc mower with chevron rubber rollers ,wont condition as well as the sickle type.
> Depends what quality of hay you are aiming to produce.We are aiming at the premium market.
> For grass and cereal the disc is the best of course
> If you are considering the vermeer ,get a demo of it working ,in particular the effectivness of the hydraulic float/suspension system.Sometimes simple is best.
> Im not going to say too much but definately get a demo of the vermeer hydraulics before forking out $$
> I have a Lely PC 330r,, google it up
> Good Luck with it .
> A great site you have here ,interesting to hear of the different hay systems over there.


well I'd like to here what you say about it instead of googling it up.Didn't get much doing that.One article of a guy likeing it.No negative articles popped up.

http://www.lely.com/en/testimonials/after-testing-prototype-australian-farmer-leaps-on-chance-to-buy-lely-

Welcome to Haytalk there is a quote button to use on bottom of a post,works better then copy and paste.


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## stack em up

mlappin said:


> You want real fun, the only way for awhile to get parts for our MF4880 was to use the microfiche, Massey is horrible on some of their parts diagrams anyways but a microfiche just sucks.


Oliver online parts books aren't a whole lot better. A photocopy of a microfiche scanned into a computer. Makes for a great time to be had by all!!!


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## Rayg59

swmnhay said:


> well I'd like to here what you say about it instead of googling it up.Didn't get much doing that.One article of a guy likeing it.No negative articles popped up.
> 
> http://www.lely.com/en/testimonials/after-testing-prototype-australian-farmer-leaps-on-chance-to-buy-lely-
> 
> Welcome to Haytalk there is a quote button to use on bottom of a post,works better then copy and paste.


Thanks for the tips ,Im not real forum savvy,so have done well to get this far 

I say google it ,so you can see the model I have.Lely Spendimo PC 330R

Lely have done a fantastic job designing and marketing there machine but some of its features need work for sure.

Im not going too deep into it here ,Lely have been responsive to my concerns a,but after 17 months of ownership i would like to see more action..


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## swmnhay

Rayg59 said:


> Thanks for the tips ,Im not real forum savvy,so have done well to get this far
> I say google it ,so you can see the model I have.Lely Spendimo PC 330R
> Lely have done a fantastic job designing and marketing there machine but some of its features need work for sure.
> Im not going too deep into it here ,Lely have been responsive to my concerns a,but after 17 months of ownership i would like to see more action..


well being that I might be buying one I'd like to know of any issues.If you want to keep it private you can send me a PM personal message.Click on to my name and my page will come up and click on send a message


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## Rayg59

swmnhay said:


> well being that I might be buying one I'd like to know of any issues.If you want to keep it private you can send me a PM personal message.Click on to my name and my page will come up and click on send a message


Message sent,,,will see what come happens by the end of January.


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## jd-tom

Boy - I haven't checked this thread for several days that I started 10-12 days ago but it sure took a left turn about 2 pages ago from my original question!

FWIW I decided to get a NH 313 Discbine with rubber rolls, 2-point hitch and quick-change knives. From the info I gleaned from this forum and NAT, looks like I really couldn't go wrong with any of the brands I was considering.

Thanks for all the input and I'll try to remember to post about my experience with it when hay season rolls around....


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## Chuck

I bought a 946 moco with tri lobe rollers in it. This machine will dry hay like no other on the market. It crushes the entire stalk. I wouldn't do with out it !!


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## Berger

Heck they won't even break into a pallet that comes in on a truck from UPS.


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## IH 1586

I receive literature from Mac Don and they recently came out with a new disc mower in the 13' and 16' width. A few things I found interesting about them is you can get it with the option road travel kit that allows you to pull them end wise and it's integrated into the machine not a separate cart. You can change out the conditioning system giving you 4 conditioning options and the most unique option that I have not read of anybody else having yet is changing the crop flow by changing the direction the discs turn.

http://www.macdon.com/products/r1-series-pull-type


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