# Looong haul hay rig through mountains, what to buy



## alaska steve (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm a farmer form Nenana Alaska and an odd problem I'm sure although there may be some Alaskans on here. I'm small potatoes but put up say 8k 60 pound squares a year and as of late the local market is drying up as in Fairbanks and area, the energy costs is killing my town. The market is in the South East and even further south. I'm selling for ten in my barn and I see its advertised for 17 in Soldotna Alaska. I need to move some hay south... Anyway Its a 5 to 6 hour ride in a pick up to the market and 10 to even a better market but I'm hauling through the Alaska Range so huge grades both up and down. I've a 7.3 turbo diesel with a 24 foot goose-neck I've used and abused to the tune of 180k on it and that all with a load behind her...well at least one way but I don't have enough life insurance to do what I want to do so here I am hoping some expert can tell me what will work for me as i'd like to haul as much as possible and be able to stop when I need to.

I am hoping to stay away from the Gestapo road cops but am not sure of the rules so don't know what to buy. Id like also to use the rig to haul fertilizer which is say 40k pounds and 150 miles from me.

There are no truckers that will even think about doing it for me and the idea of making 200 bale trips through the mountains this winter does not sound like fun.

Note: I plan on buying a big square baler before the end of the year so will have to haul home as well.

Thanks,

Steve


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2014)

A semi is the first thing to come to my mind but that depends on how steep of grades ur talkin. U could turn those 200 bale trips into 650-700 bale trips. Drop and hook vans. But this was discussed in other fourms, but do not leave hay in vans very long. Even if u baled at 0% moisture the bales will still mold against the walls.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

I'd be looking around for a good used single drop like a Talbert or Fontaine with a 10-2 spread on air and flip ramps so you can haul wheeled wheeled equipment plus a road tractor, twin screw, preferrably a pre-2013 or earlier with either a Car 3406 or DDEC 15 liter in front of a 13 speed Roadranger with 40 rears in 400 ratio and no lower and an engine brake is manfatory, for your life and your brakes longevity. Brand is no issue, every Class 6-7 and 8 manufacturer used the same components, just the sheet metal (or fiberglass) changes.

Loose the 7.3. It don't have the cajonies to pull that much weight and you need an engine brake or your load will outtun you.

The used truck market is very tight because of the Tier4 emissions standards, everyone in the business is after pre-tier4 emissions engines because they are more efficient and less downtime but if you look, you can find some good off lease and/or owner operators selling. Whatever you get, whatever engine, MAKE SURE IT HAS AN ENGINE RETARDER (JAKE BRAKE) AND A 13 SPEED ROAD RANGER OR 18 SPEED which is a 13 with 4 extra on the low side and an extra reverse.

For mountain driving, always overspec for power, torque rise and braking capablities and you'll need a Class A license with airbrake endorsement and a DOT physical whether you are hauing your own product or someone else's.

Your 7.3 with a gooseneck is a ticket to the morgue hauling any weight. You don't have thr brakes, nor the power to pull it up loaded or slow it down loaded.Flat laqnd is one thing, mountains are entirely another matter.

I ought to know, I'm a State and Federally certified examiner trainer and a safety and compliance officer (part time) for a large private, specialized carrier.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

ARD Farm said:


> I'm a State and Federally certified examiner trainer and a safety and compliance officer (part time) for a large private, specialized carrier.


Great thing about this site, you have a question, and somebody is on here that does it for a living.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

+1 on that rockmartga.

I would never haul in the mountains with f450 and that's got twice the brakes of an f350. I'd rather haul with a single axle Pete anytime.


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

I recently looked into moving up from an F-350 pulling a 20 foot flatbed to a Freightliner or International medium duty truck just so I could move more product per trip ( I sell at local auctions).

The cost of the new rig didn't stop me. Here's what stopped me: 1) Here in Pennsylvania, you need a CDL (commercial driver's license) for anything with a GVWR over 26,000 pounds. Having a CDL requires an annual physical to keep your DOT medical card. 2) The registration & insurance for such a rig (which I would only be using for a few trips per year) would run around $5,000 annually.

Alaska Steve - you don't say how big your operation is but unless you're really big, it's not economically feasible to move beyond a heavy duty pickup truck & trailer.

Gary


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## alaska steve (Sep 26, 2014)

thanks all...great input.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Single axle regional haul tractor with at least 10L displacement, air brakes and an Allison auto with retarder or a manual trans with plenty of gears (13 or 18 speed) with a jake. 
Trailer that fits your needs for cargo size and weight.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

This past spring we looked into a semi and a single drop trailer. The end result is that if I crossed a state line, like to the auction in Colorado, I had to have a commercial insurance plan. The CDL was a requirement either way. The yearly cost was approaching $10,000. This would obviously not pay off very well. The price of the truck and trailer added to these costs made it a fairly simple decision to pass.
The 7.3 engine was a good one but not really set up for what you want to do. I have hauled many loads around here with a 3/4 and 1 ton, including over 10% grades on the mountain, that people would call you crazy to attempt. I can remember hauling 14 horses and mules in a 40' gooseneck and coming over the mountain. If done carefully, and sometimes using the transfer case in 4L for the lower gearing, it can be done. Make sure that you have good brakes, and a tandem dual trailer before you try it. Tire chains are hell on a tandem single flatbed trailer. If you decide to try a load just make sure that you have chains for all four on the truck and at least one axle on the trailer.
Sometimes we do what we have to with the equipment that we can afford. Please be aware that you won't be driving the speed limit or anything even close to the speed limit set up the way you are.
I agree with ARD Farm on everything he said, except that I have successfully avoided the morgue to date.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

NewBerlinBaler said:


> I recently looked into moving up from an F-350 pulling a 20 foot flatbed to a Freightliner or International medium duty truck just so I could move more product per trip ( I sell at local auctions).
> 
> The cost of the new rig didn't stop me. Here's what stopped me: 1) Here in Pennsylvania, you need a CDL (commercial driver's license) for anything with a GVWR over 26,000 pounds. Having a CDL requires an annual physical to keep your DOT medical card. 2) The registration & insurance for such a rig (which I would only be using for a few trips per year) would run around $5,000 annually.
> 
> ...


We have a pretty good deal on farm tags in PA, if you can stay in PA, insurance is cheap and reg is cheap. My semi needs annual inspection with the type tags I have but I can run at night, $100 for two years. Insurance is not much at all, goes on farm policy as unregistered farm truck. Trailer is maine tagged so no inspections or sales tax. No CDL or Med card needed.


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's one thing I've considered is buying pup trailers just for the permanent trailer tags. Really don't like my 600$ a year gooseneck plate. I'd really like a single axle truck, but finances, my lower back and NVDA hayman have convinced me to buy another skidloader and and a Kuhn's mfg 18 bale.

Alaska steve, I guess if your not opposed to buying a semi, a nice drop deck hauls a lot of hay and you could easily snag one of them on the cheap. However with a semi comes a lot of paper work even if your intrastate. Farm plates may help that. Either way good luck!


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

You say that there are no truckers interested in this, but, I'm curious where you have looked. Also, you may need to get creative. For example is it possible to transport on a flatbed heavy equipment trailer using tarps and straps? There must be more freight inbound to Fairbanks than outbound and someone willing to haul for you rather than run empty. Are you familiar with uship? I have used them for many equipment moves across the US and found several owner operators that were flexible and reasonable. Given your limited volume I wouldn't be investing in tractors and trailers for a few runs every year. Maybe spend more time researching creative freight arrangements. Just my .02 cents


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Single axle regional haul tractor with at least 10L displacement, air brakes and an Allison auto with retarder or a manual trans with plenty of gears (13 or 18 speed) with a jake.
> Trailer that fits your needs for cargo size and weight.


You'd be hard pressed to find that combo used. Most single axle tractors are fleet units with weenie power, no engine retarder (Jake Brake is a brand name of Jacobs Manufactring, there are other such as Pac-Brake that are the same design) 10 speeds or less and beat your guts out leaf spring suspension. Allisons are reserved for vocational trucks, school buses and motor homes. The only 'auto shift' you can get in a tractor will be a servo shift manual.

We have a Volvo on the lot, been there for a year in fleet specs. Can't give it away. A permanent turd.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

cmd said:


> We have a pretty good deal on farm tags in PA, if you can stay in PA, insurance is cheap and reg is cheap. My semi needs annual inspection with the type tags I have but I can run at night, $100 for two years. Insurance is not much at all, goes on farm policy as unregistered farm truck. Trailer is maine tagged so no inspections or sales tax. No CDL or Med card needed.


Got 2 semis in Pa. with same tag so we can run at nite. I agree with all you said they told me you do need a med card with that taq .


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## alaska steve (Sep 26, 2014)

My customer found a trucker on his end to come get it and will start hauling next week till the barn is empty, problem solved.

Thanks all.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

That's good news. Should save you in the long run if it allows you to focus on farming rather than spending days hauling freight. Once you start with long haul you would be searching for back hauls and trying to get more revenue from that rig. Tough enough to farm with your short growing season without being on the road rather than around the farm.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

endrow said:


> Got 2 semis in Pa. with same tag so we can run at nite. I agree with all you said they told me you do need a med card with that taq .


On the PA farm bureau website, they have transportation information which covers this and it says you are exempt from medical with a Type D reg.


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

alaska steve said:


> My customer found a trucker on his end to come get it and will start hauling next week till the barn is empty, problem solved.
> 
> Thanks all.


Glad to hear that. Good for all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ARD Farm said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find that combo used. Most single axle tractors are fleet units with weenie power, no engine retarder (Jake Brake is a brand name of Jacobs Manufactring, there are other such as Pac-Brake that are the same design) 10 speeds or less and beat your guts out leaf spring suspension. Allisons are reserved for vocational trucks, school buses and motor homes. The only 'auto shift' you can get in a tractor will be a servo shift manual.
> 
> We have a Volvo on the lot, been there for a year in fleet specs. Can't give it away. A permanent turd.


No, not really. I mean a retarder in the transmission. Like a downshifting brake. 
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/transmission_retarder_operation.html
I put about 1/2 million miles on an Allison equipped heavy truck. I loved it. Felt much less tired after 10hrs in the jockey box. Put another 1/2 million on other eaton fuller transmissions and they were fine, too. 
I just passed up on a S/A CCX tractor with a 12L Detroit 400+ HP. Came with a 42' flatbed trailer for $6,500. 
I decided it wasn't worth buying another big rig until I get bigger in the hay business.


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