# Scammers that want to buy hay



## toddhandy

Posted an ad on craigslist to sell some hay. Got a text from a guy wanting to buy a bunch of small squares. I figured it was a total scam when he told me a trucking company would come and load it themselves and didn't even ask questions about the hay. He sent me a picture of his military ID and said he couldn't answer his phone while on base. I asked him to send me a message on Facebook to confirm his identity, he wouldn't do that but he sent me emails that looked like they were from pay-pal but were a total scam. He acted like if i wired money to the delivery company the money would be reimbursed back to my pay pal account. Its sad SCUMBAGS like this act like they are serving this great Country and are scum of the earth. I have seen this so many times. The thing that is always the same is they act like they are out of country and cant talk on the phone. The other thing is they never even question what you are selling. Has anyone had a trucking company pull into your yard and load the hay with out your help? I have never encountered it but not saying it does not happen.


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## Smoothy

Usually them drivers won't even throw there own tarps let alone load the hay! We've had that a bunch of times super unfortunate. They never ask what crop or moisture or even what kind of hay. I always wanted to send them a hay sample bag full of skittles or something just a thanks for totally waisting my time haha


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## toddhandy

Smoothy said:


> Usually them drivers won't even throw there own tarps let alone load the hay! We've had that a bunch of times super unfortunate. They never ask what crop or moisture or even what kind of hay. I always wanted to send them a hay sample bag full of skittles or something just a thanks for totally waisting my time haha


Send them a bag of [email protected]&T


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## Teslan

The scammers are learning a bit more about hay to make their requests seem somewhat more legitimate. They used to talk about the product or some other language that most hay buyers don't use. They still don't have it quite right. I just let them know they can send me cash in an overnight package then send a truck. For some reason they never respond to that.


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## swmnhay

Had one the other day ask the price and that they wanted to buy all of it.I replied $1000 a ton and 1000 ton.


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## paoutdoorsman

It's not just hay. Regardless of what I put up for sale, I always seem to get a few of the scam emails right away. Similar to Teslan, I just tell them to send cold hard cash with the their driver and never get a response.


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## Ranger518

Never post phone numbers in a CL listing description only in the reply to part and that will cut down on scam calls by over 75% or if you do put your number in the description spell it out in words inated of just putting the number in.


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## BWfarms

A couple of years ago I put a want ad on Craigslist, I was searching for land to lease. I got a reply about a piece of property, guy said he had over 150 acres combined and went in to some detail. I thought great this would be perfect. I asked for location so I could come look at it. He described the location, I looked up google maps and realized he was possibly a fraud. I knew the actual landowner and surrounding landowners. So I looked up tax records, there wasn't even a landowner in the county with his last name. I called his bluff, never heard back. I was going to have the sheriffs department meet him with me.


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## CowboyRam

Last summer I sold a old gas range on CL; had a guy send me a check for three times what I was asking. I was supposed to cash it and send him back the rest. Needless to say I made a trip to the county sheriff, and dropped it in his lap. Never heard another word for the guy. One thing I have learned from this is watch for grammar, most of these people are foreigners, and don't know proper grammar.


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## Thorim

Like I have always said " in God we trust all others pay cash" lol


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## VA Haymaker

Some of it is not scammers, but BS artists....

I need 400 bales of hay.

OK.

I'll let you know.

Never hear from them again - LOL!


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## Teslan

leeave96 said:


> Some of it is not scammers, but BS artists....
> 
> I need 400 bales of hay.
> 
> OK.
> 
> I'll let you know.
> 
> Never hear from them again - LOL!


Isn't that the truth.


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## slowzuki

Tire kickers.


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## Vol

Sounds like a widespread calamity in North America.

Regards, Mike


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## gearhartfarms82

We have had semis come with crews before. Now its a rarity for that. We sell on fb/ creigslist alot. Simple thing to do is set it up and say cas up front. Scamers will never do this when u demand cash. Idk about any one else on here but all new customers are cash only till things get established. Weeds out issues fast.


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## JD3430

When someone texts you about something for sale on CL, call the number that texted you.
9 times out of 10 it'll be a "text only" number and it's a scammer from Russia.
I also tell people in the ads I respond to phone calls only. No texts or emails.


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## PaMike

I sometimes text when buying and selling but I always at some point in the deal speak to a real live person. I have had two VERY bad experiences selling equipment. Both were to people that only wanted to text. They never wanted to talk in person. You can feel out a person a lot more with a conversation than you can with 10 word text messages...


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## toddhandy

I had another email.

Good day to you and I appreciate your immediate response back to me,I'm good with the price as quoted on hayexchange, And well, I am glad to let you know that I'm purchasing the requested quantity below: **( All the 1000 alfalfa small square bales )**
The Hay will be shipped to my Location at ( Seneca, KS ) though I am currently out of the States and wouldn't be back till the end of October, but that would not stop our transaction, So let's proceed with the Payment, I 'm going to request for a Certified Cashier's check from my Bank for the requested quantity and have my Banker mail it to your address via The United States Postal Service. My Shippers will load and pick up Hay when Payment clears your Bank Would need the following details to process the Cashier's Check to be sent out to you the next business day

Name To Be On Cashier's Check:

*Home or Farm Address : ( to Send Payment )
*Cell Phone Number :
*Total Amount For Hay Requested :

Email me back the above details when you can, and you can also text me on my Cell Number: (785) 294-xxxx, I might not be able to make a voice call on this number because of my present location, but I can always reply back your email and text message anytime you get in touch. Have a great Day.

Best Regards,
James

I protected this dirt bags number above

I sent him a text back

James I got your email about the hay. To make sure this is not a scam I need to talk to you on the phone or see a facebook profile and message you on it.

James responds

Common you need to stop thinking negative and is this your first time doing a transaction online?

ME

Call me and we can talk, Isn't the first time I have sold hay before but normally the trucking company does not load the hay. If your are not interested in talking to me on the phone thats fine but send me the transport company you use. I sure want to use them in the future if they will load 1000 alfalfa bales.

James, did not respond, SURPRISE

ME

That is what i thought


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## WalkerBoys

toddhandy said:


> I had another email.
> 
> Good day to you and I appreciate your immediate response back to me,I'm good with the price as quoted on hayexchange, And well, I am glad to let you know that I'm purchasing the requested quantity below: **( All the 1000 alfalfa small square bales )**
> The Hay will be shipped to my Location at ( Seneca, KS ) though I am currently out of the States and wouldn't be back till the end of October, but that would not stop our transaction, So let's proceed with the Payment, I 'm going to request for a Certified Cashier's check from my Bank for the requested quantity and have my Banker mail it to your address via The United States Postal Service. My Shippers will load and pick up Hay when Payment clears your Bank Would need the following details to process the Cashier's Check to be sent out to you the next business day
> 
> Name To Be On Cashier's Check:
> 
> *Home or Farm Address : ( to Send Payment )
> *Cell Phone Number :
> *Total Amount For Hay Requested :
> 
> Email me back the above details when you can, and you can also text me on my Cell Number: (785) 294-xxxx, I might not be able to make a voice call on this number because of my present location, but I can always reply back your email and text message anytime you get in touch. Have a great Day.
> 
> Best Regards,
> James
> 
> I protected this dirt bags number above
> 
> I sent him a text back
> 
> James I got your email about the hay. To make sure this is not a scam I need to talk to you on the phone or see a facebook profile and message you on it.
> 
> James responds
> 
> Common you need to stop thinking negative and is this your first time doing a transaction online?
> 
> ME
> 
> Call me and we can talk, Isn't the first time I have sold hay before but normally the trucking company does not load the hay. If your are not interested in talking to me on the phone thats fine but send me the transport company you use. I sure want to use them in the future if they will load 1000 alfalfa bales.
> 
> James, did not respond, SURPRISE
> 
> ME
> 
> That is what i thought


I've got this same e-mail except mine was about round bales. We received the check from "James" but we never even tried to cash it. We figured it was a scam.


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## swmnhay

I got this one today.I have no idea what Item #19 could be

Dear Sir,

Good day,Thanks for your mail .

Please kindly find the enclosed and provide with your best quotation .On item No 19 we will be

needing 6 quantities .

Await your quotation.

Thanks,

Best Regards.

Sales
Lake City, Jacksonville, FL.


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## HALOjumper

I am retired military. If you have a base near you, go to the JAG office with email copies and his picture of the ID. Chances are it isn't him, but if it is, they will have his nuts in a vice. If he were one of mine, I would dog him so hard he would shit his pants. Then go to UCMJ proceedings. pay close attention to grammar. If it sound funny, probably a foreign scam.


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## tractormike

good thing you caught it


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## endrow

We ran into tons of scammers when we tried to sell hay on Craigslist.


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## HayMap

Man we hate these scammers and is one of the main reasons we've built Hay Map to securely connect buyers & sellers. We've built a mobile app for Android & iPhone's and also a web version.
Thanks, Shaun Baker
Founder of Hay Map LLC


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## AlfalfaExpat

I think there are also scammers wanting to sell Hay As well. Just flew all the way out to see a farmer who said he had 2800 acres of land which he grows Alfalfa Hay. Flew a long ways from California to Memphis then drove about 2:45 minutes to Dresden only to see 2 house sized storage places with very little Hay Alfalfa. Did not see 1 acre of Hay and no machines to back up his claims of 10000 tons monthly capacity. To say the least I was very very pissed when I arrived.


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## HayMap

Here's the typical scam, Pay too much and have you send some money back and pay their "hauler" in the process:

"Information reaching me from my account is that check has been delivered to your mail box,but he mistakenly wrote the check for the product I ordered for and also the amount my hauler charge for transporting and for two horses so please deduct the $600 amount and send back the difference to the hauler and also tell him when to come pick up the hay.
Will send you his account information by morning.
Sorry for any inconveniences"

-We are working to stop this. We have some ideas on verifying land owners through tax records and maybe have legitimate brokers register and verify in some way. Hate these scammers guys that give our industry a bad name.


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## FarmerCline

AlfalfaExpat said:


> I think there are also scammers wanting to sell Hay As well. Just flew all the way out to see a farmer who said he had 2800 acres of land which he grows Alfalfa Hay. Flew a long ways from California to Memphis then drove about 2:45 minutes to Dresden only to see 2 house sized storage places with very Hay Alfalfa. Did not see 1 acre of Hay and no machines to back up his claims of 10000 tons monthly capacity. To say the least I was very very pissed when I arrived.


 You should have posted about that on here before flying out to TN. I think we would have warned you that that didn't sound likely. There is a very limited amount of alfalfa grown in the southeast and it would be next to impossible for a single producer to make that much alfalfa with the typical southeast weather. Also I don't think your going to find export quality hay your looking for here in the southeast......just don't have the weather to reliably be able to produce that quality of hay.....let alone the quantity.


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## Teslan

AlfalfaExpat said:


> I think there are also scammers wanting to sell Hay As well. Just flew all the way out to see a farmer who said he had 2800 acres of land which he grows Alfalfa Hay. Flew a long ways from California to Memphis then drove about 2:45 minutes to Dresden only to see 2 house sized storage places with very Hay Alfalfa. Did not see 1 acre of Hay and no machines to back up his claims of 10000 tons monthly capacity. To say the least I was very very pissed when I arrived.


 What did this farmer say when you arrived? Didn't you find it odd that someone in that region could grow that much alfalfa never mind have it available for you? That's the part I would question. Why a person would have that much available all of a sudden. I guess you might have to require pictures of their storage, equipment, hay growing process before you spend time and money travelling to visit. Kudos to you visiting though. I don't have enough alfalfa to bother you with having you visit.


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## AlfalfaExpat

Teslan said:


> What did this farmer say when you arrived? Didn't you find it odd that someone in that region could grow that much alfalfa never mind have it available for you? That's the part I would question. Why a person would have that much available all of a sudden. I guess you might have to require pictures of their storage, equipment, hay growing process before you spend time and money travelling to visit. Kudos to you visiting though. I don't have enough alfalfa to bother you with having you visit.


He said he did not have that much but could source more to meet my requirements. When I arrived at his farm I did not see 1 square foot of Alfalfa Hay. He said he had on order a Hunter Machine for $1.8 million which he expected to receive by next month. There was no loading dock or storage facility to house this machine or anything in place. He said his family has been growing Hay for 3 generations now. 
The pictures he sent me of the packaged bake which he told me were taken at his farm turned out to be a lie as he later changed his story and sent pictures were taken in Canada at Hunterwood facility.
Trip was a waste of time and money. He said he could do $120 FOB Memphis at the train station as we had our own transport connection from Memphis to China.


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## Teslan

AlfalfaExpat said:


> He said he did not have that much but could source more to meet my requirements. When I arrived at his farm I did not see 1 square foot of Alfalfa Hay. He said he had on order a Hunter Machine for $1.8 million which he expected to receive by next month. There was no loading dock or storage facility to house this machine or anything in place. He said his family has been growing Hay for 3 generations now.
> The pictures he sent me of the packaged bake which he told me were taken at his farm turned out to be a lie as he later changed his story and sent pictures were taken in Canada at Hunterwood facility.
> Trip was a waste of time and money. He said he could do $120 FOB Memphis at the train station as we had our own transport connection from Memphis to China.


wow! I just don't know how someone can misrepresent themselves so dishonestly. To have another guy spend money and time based on a complete lie. Knowing that the guy is going to be angry in the end. I don't know what I would have done if i was in your place.


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## AlfalfaExpat

Teslan said:


> wow! I just don't know how someone can misrepresent themselves so dishonestly. To have another guy spend money and time based on a complete lie. Knowing that the guy is going to be angry in the end. I don't know what I would have done if i was in your place.


What can one do...? Unfortunately there are some that are dishonest and some that just don't have the Hay to sell. He told me that last month he had 10000 ton order to the UAE. His shipping company said last month they sent out about 20 containers to the UAE. Very few of the stories I was told could be verified when I arrived. My blood was boiling to say the least


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## AlfalfaExpat

I just found this about this guy..

https://www.tnwd.uscourts.gov/JudgeBryant/opinions/991.pdf

Keep away from Haymaker1 out of Dresden Tennessee

I think he specializes in conning customers from the UAE

https://www.usaopps.com/government_contractors/contractor-5730493-WRIGHT-FARMS-HAYMAKER.htm

20000 customers in 100 countries.. 

http://wrightfarmsinc.com

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20141029914


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## hillside hay

Wow the balls on that one! I'm guessing he doesn't sleep too sound.


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## AlfalfaExpat

hillside hay said:


> Wow the balls on that one! I'm guessing he doesn't sleep too sound.


He sent me an email last night telling me that his family has 3 generations of selling hay and that he will not be selling his hay to me :lol:  Not sure what he was thinking. He never delivered the hay to the last customer he conned and never paid back the money to the last customer he conned. According to court documents he filed for bankruptcy in order to avoid payment or delivery and he wants me to believe that he can deliver 10000 tons of hay next month and that he has a $1.8 Million machine on order from Hunter that will be delivered next month. If anyone here saw him no one would believe that this guy had $1.8 million to pay for a machine after you saw the shack he lived in.


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## Palmettokat

They are in many industries. Normally ones not licensed or heavy if any regulations. Got stuck with an advertising company in New York City a few years back for a few thousand, a few months later had another company call me with about same pitch. When i told him if I go with you and you turn out to be a fraud I will come to get you in my pickup and shotgun. He stuttered and said you would do that for so and so amount of money to which I said no sir but since I had another company therewith same offer stick me it would be worth it for both. Dummy me went with him but credit card company protected what they determine was fraud.

On the trucker loaded the load, bet he is not a Union trucker.

On depositing those checks you ask your banker but I think if small check and it clears they get your numbers on the check when returned to them and they use that to hit your account with electronic draft. You do not have to have a signature with most banks to draft a person's account. Has been that way for about thirty years at least with insurance companies. I called my bank last week to ask about a draft I did not recognize and they told me we only know what you are seeing on the statement other than what bank handled the draft.


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## AlfalfaExpat

When I arrived I was hoping to see something like this but what I saw was a far cry from this


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## AlfalfaExpat

When I arrived I was hoping to see something like this but what I saw was a far cry from this


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## Teslan

AlfalfaExpat said:


> When I arrived I was hoping to see something like this but what I saw was a far cry from this


Does that exist in Tennessee?


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## AlfalfaExpat

Teslan said:


> Does that exist in Tennessee?


No, but if you know of a good supplier you can let me know


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## Vol

AlfalfaExpat said:


> No, but if you know of a good supplier you can let me know


Tennessee receives about 50 inches of rainfall annually. Most folks do not need a pivot....but we do have them. There is one about 3 miles from my place. I suggest next time that you make contact with a potential contract producer that you request a video of the complete operation. It surely is puzzling that someone would fabricate a story about their operation and then let you come and inspect their make believe story. Very bizarre.

Regards, Mike


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## AlfalfaExpat

Vol said:


> Tennessee receives about 50 inches of rainfall annually. Most folks do not need a pivot....but we do have them. There is one about 3 miles from my place. I suggest next time that you make contact with a potential contract producer that you request a video of the complete operation. It surely is puzzling that someone would fabricate a story about their operation and then let you come and inspect their make believe story. Very bizarre.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Thanks for kind reply, if you know of someone please share as I am looking for Alfalfa Hay. Would prefer that farmer has a USDA number for export but if not we will manage. On a side note I was not the first to have been deceived but luckily I was not conned any money aside from trip expenses unlike the UAE customer who was conned an arm and a leg.


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## Teslan

Vol said:


> Tennessee receives about 50 inches of rainfall annually. Most folks do not need a pivot....but we do have them. There is one about 3 miles from my place. I suggest next time that you make contact with a potential contract producer that you request a video of the complete operation. It surely is puzzling that someone would fabricate a story about their operation and then let you come and inspect their make believe story. Very bizarre.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I agree. Takes quite the con artist to stand in front of someone and lie to their face. Then to call and let the person you lied to know that you wouldn't sell your pretend alfalfa to him. That's something. I'm impressed that alfalfaexpat went to look at the hay in person. Good thing he did. I prefer people coming to look at my hay in person before I sell them anything. I always get nervous selling a fairly large amount to someone without them seeing it in person. It's my policy if you didn't come look at it in person there are no returns or money back if you find you don't like it. You never know with people how they might find a problem with anything.


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> You never know with people how they might find a problem with anything.


That is a huge understatement. On large sales, I insist on the purchaser taking a few bales and trying them. All one can do is raise the best crop that environmental conditions will allow and represent it as accurately as possible.

Regards, Mike


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## AlfalfaExpat

Vol said:


> That is a huge understatement. On large sales, I insist on the purchaser taking a few bales and trying them. All one can do is raise the best crop that environmental conditions will allow and represent it as accurately as possible.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Honesty is also very important as one could receive a sample from the good area that received proper water and proper fertilization but then again the rest of the field may not have gotten enough water and proper fertilization which could throw off the lab test results for say RFV,fiber and Protein for which the buyer overseas cares about. Test results can apparently vary from one lab company to another and then whether or not they did a dry test or wet test. When there is political trouble between two countries they will look for small excuses at the customs office overseas to hold up your containers at port.Small hold up and things can go downhill pretty quickly.

I remember the port hold up issue here in America last time in Los Angeles and Long Beach where many people went bankrupt due to hold up. All those people that sent seafood worth hundred of thousands of dollars per container that all went bad due to not arriving on time.


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## Vol

AlfalfaExpat said:


> Honesty is also very important as one could receive a sample from the good area that received proper water and proper fertilization but then again the rest of the field may not have gotten enough water and proper fertilization which could throw off the lab test results


Representing your product as accurately as possible is being honest.

Regards, Mike


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## Tim/South

With the wide range of membership we have on this forum there is bound to be someone in any area of the country that could shed some light on potential sellers, producers or scammers.

If I was going to buy anything, hay or equipment, from another area of the U.S. this is the first place I would ask if anyone knew the people.


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## RockmartGA

Vol said:


> Representing your product as accurately as possible is being honest.


And even then, sometimes it is not enough. I remember selling a load of "mulch" hay to a guy who uses it a feed hay and then he complains about it.

C'est la vie (such is life)


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## swmnhay

Google is your friend either buying or selling you can find out alot about someone with their name,Company name,phone number.If you can't find out anything about them at all thats another red flag,good chance they are hiding something useing a fake name ,etc.

Court cases are public info and if someone has been to court for not paying,etc it generally comes up with a google search.


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## AlfalfaExpat

swmnhay said:


> Google is your friend either buying or selling you can find out alot about someone with their name,Company name,phone number.If you can't find out anything about them at all thats another red flag,good chance they are hiding something useing a fake name ,etc.
> 
> Court cases are public info and if someone has been to court for not paying,etc it generally comes up with a google search.


Just sent you an email


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