# 540/1000 PTO questions



## JD3430

My tractor is only 540 PTO. Looking at bigger tractors in the 100-200 HP range. Most have a "540/1000" PTO, but there's only one PTO splined shaft in the back. 
Bunch of dumb questions: 
Does the operator simply select the PTO speed by a switch/lever in the cab? 
Some have told me the PTO shaft has to be removed and switched.
I have also heard of 1000 "small" and 1000 "large" PTO's.

I'd like to be able to run round baler, sm square baler, 15' batwing mower, etc. Most are 540, but would like to have 1000 available. IH tractor I looked at had a "dual" PTO. Pretty slick.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

On most, just take out snap ring, turn it over and put back in. Mike


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## JD3430

so there's a tool, greasy hands, etc. needed to change PTO speeds? 
Kind of surprised no ones invented a way to just change the speed at which the shaft rotates. 
I looked at a IH 5488 that had a "dual PTO". That was really nice.


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## rjmoses

My old IH 966 has two shafts that are both live all the time when the PTO is engaged.

My NH TS135A has a reversible shaft--Use a vise grips to squeeze the ring together, pop the shaft out and reverse it, put the ring back in and double check that it is completely seated with a screw driver. Takes 30 seconds.

Ralph


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## mlappin

Oliver and Whites used two different shafts, you then loosened a bolt to move a shifter from 540 to 1000 or vice versa. This was nice in someways as if you slightly modified the lock out pin, you could use a 540 shaft while the tractor was in the 1000 rpm setting. The advantage to this? My 1855 had more thn a enough power to run my NH499, instead of running wide open throttle to mow hay, i used the 540 shaft with the tractor in a 1000 and ran at half throttle. Saved fuel and my hearing. Also ran some other light equipment this way as well.

The small 1000 rpm shaft is the same diameter as a 540 shaft, say 1 3/8", while the large 1000 rpm shaft is considerably larger and for higher hp tractors, say 200 plus.


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## askinner

I have a Zetor, and it is simply a case of moving a lever, no getting off the tractor. Even though a lot of people shy from them because they aren't green with a deer on the front (even though some were sold as that way), I swear by them. They are great value for money, simple and cheap to repair (not often needed), advanced in their design, and a lot heavier than their competition. I'm not a dealer, but their definitely worth a look at.


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## JD3430

So the 540 and small 100 PTO shafts are same size?


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## blueriver

My only experience was with a no till drill ... the JD tractor you just removed the pto shaft and stuck it in the other direction ... the shaft was splined ditterent. Regular is 1 and 3/8" 6 spline and the no till was something like 28 spline ... thats all I can share.


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> So the 540 and small 100 PTO shafts are same size?


1 3/8" if I recall correctly, just a different number of splines.


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## Josh in WNY

Sounds like your questions have pretty much been answered, but to summarize: The 540 pto shaft is a 6-spline shaft that is 1 3/8 inch in diameter. The small 1,000 rpm shaft has 21 splines and is also 1 3/8 inch in diameter. The large 1,000 rpm shaft has 20 splines and is 1 3/4 inch in diameter.

Mlappin has a good suggestion about using the 1,000 rpm at half throttle instead of the 540 rpm (my dad has done the same thing running a generator on a JD 3020 before), but be very careful when you do this. If you run 540 rpm equipment too fast, bad things happen to the equipment and possibly to you. That's part of the reason that you usually have to remove the shaft to change the speed. The other reason is that it is much easier to have two gears (internal to the tractor) that run each pto speed and have the pto shaft itself connect to the appropriate gear (less linkages, etc. to break). There was a farmer around me that decided he was going to use his 1,000 rpm pto on his 540 silage blower so he could really fill the silo fast, after the blower came apart they had to pull one of the fan blades from the blower out of roll bar of the tractor cap (it was buried 3/4 of the way through the tube frame).


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## mike10

There is a guy in the area who used his White/Oliver on his 540 discbine. He did not realize that he had the tractor set for 1000. The son had to go to the field and pick up the pieces of the secondary pto shaft from the discbine when the machine stopped running. He did not get too far in the field.


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## mlappin

mike10 said:


> There is a guy in the area who used his White/Oliver on his 540 discbine. He did not realize that he had the tractor set for 1000. The son had to go to the field and pick up the pieces of the secondary pto shaft from the discbine when the machine stopped running. He did not get too far in the field.


Never had that problem, you can tell the difference at a dead idle what gear the pto is in...least i can.


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## urednecku

mlappin said:


> Never had that problem, you can tell the difference at a dead idle what gear the pto is in...least i can.


Problem is, (& I see it often) not everybody 'feels' or 'listens to' their equipment. I have family that's driven tractors, mowers, etc for years that I have stopped them in time to save a squealing bearing or belt. ---"I didn't notice it."


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## mlappin

urednecku said:


> Problem is, (& I see it often) not everybody 'feels' or 'listens to' their equipment. I have family that's driven tractors, mowers, etc for years that I have stopped them in time to save a squealing bearing or belt. ---"I didn't notice it."


No doubt, I've had help like that in the past. I've pulled into a field and could tell from a quarter mile away a gang is loose on the disc because the blades are wobbling. Also pulled into a field not in time to save a spindle on the disc before. You'd think if I could see the tire wobbling from the road the guy running it would have noticed from the cab the wheel bearings were gone. Had one guy ran a disc until the nut fell right off the axle, along with the spacer and outer blade, then ran it so long completely ruined the gang shaft, I had to cut it out in pieces and buy a new one. These guys weren't around long as I specifically told em to get the f*ck out of the cab once an hour and check the gangs. Hit the blade with a hammer, if it rings its tight, if it goes bonk its loose, not exactly rocket science. Run my equipment to pieces yet stop working to drive back to the farm and move their pickup because the wind had changed and they didn't want it to get dusty from the driveways.

Help is the reason I only farm what I do, I've even cut back a little on the hay this year so I can do a even better job with what I have without having to have help. I have absolutely no desire to be the next 5000+ acre guy around and then have to deal with more "help".


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## NDVA HAYMAN

You can also use a reducer or increaser over the current shaft. In other words, if you have a 540, you can increase to 1000 or vice versa. That probably sounds about as clear as mud. Mike


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## OK Wheat farmer

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> You can also use a reducer or increaser over the current shaft. In other words, if you have a 540, you can increase to 1000 or vice versa. That probably sounds about as clear as mud. Mike


I always wondered if they made such a thing. We've used adapters over the years to run smaller 540 implements on a 1000 RPM shaft but at reduced engine speed (such as small square baler on a 100-200 hp tractor). But there are situations where the load is too much to run the engine that slow (such as FIL running a 540 hydra-swing swather on a 1000 rpm PTO).


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## Farmineer

100-200 hp tractors will have a break in what size 1000rpm shaft is offered- usually that break is around 150 hp. 150 and up will be 1-3/4" 20 spline, 150 and under will be the 1-3/8" 21 spline. Keep in mind that your haying implements will likely be of the small 1000 and tractors say a 4630 Deere (or 4640, 4840) are strictly large 1000. There is no shaft to change. If you want to use small 1000 or 540 you need to use an adapter (I personally would avoid that).


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## evan

Just remeber if you are using an adapter that you are efectivly lengthening the pto stub out of the tractor and may need to adjust the drawbar on your tractor to keep the distances correct (for things with CV's, big round balers, discbines, etc). you also want to make sure that everything is tight, a little tiny bit of wobble turns into a large amount of wobble and brokens in a hurry at 1000rpm, things get very unhapppy when they are out of ballance and spinning that fast.


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## Teslan

JD3430 what machines do you have the require a 1000? We never had one until last fall when we bought a 3x3 baler. Our MF6290 has two separate shafts to insert into the tractor. When you push one or the other into the tractor it engages the appropriate gears for the speed. Then there is a button in the cab to switch so the digital readout is correct. Our JD 7810 just has one shaft that is reversible. I like the reversible idea more then having two as you won't misplace one never to be found when you actually need it. Which reminds me I wonder where exactly is the 540 shaft for the MF.... And what Evan says is very correct. When I moved the 3x3 baler over to the JD from the MF I had to make all sorts of adjustments on the baler and the tractor as the pto/cvs would pound like crazy. When I last was at the dealer they asked me if I made sure it was correct or it would pound. I said yes it was a job, but it's done. They informed me they have many customers that don't bother to adjust things correct and it just tears things apart. Ignoring the pounding and wobbling and such.


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## JD3430

None yet. Looking to become more versatile and possibly up to a big square baler.


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## Teslan

If you eventually go to a big square you will want a tractor that stays on it all the time. It's not that easy to take on and off in a few minutes. I thought it would be easier then it is. I even have the 3 point hitches off of our 7810 while it's on the 3X3 baler.


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## mlappin

Farmineer said:


> 100-200 hp tractors will have a break in what size 1000rpm shaft is offered- usually that break is around 150 hp. 150 and up will be 1-3/4" 20 spline, 150 and under will be the 1-3/8" 21 spline. Keep in mind that your haying implements will likely be of the small 1000 and tractors say a 4630 Deere (or 4640, 4840) are strictly large 1000. There is no shaft to change. If you want to use small 1000 or 540 you need to use an adapter (I personally would avoid that).


Yah, the adapters all have a small amount of wobble as well, so you'll get some slight vibration thru your drive line.


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## JD3430

It really all depends on which way the business goes in the future. Getting calls from people all the time. Looks like the most profitable and most hassle will be small squares and rounds, but I really don't know yet. The "big boys" around here bale 'em square and sell to mushroom farmers. It aslo looks like the most "mechanical" way to operate a hay business. I really don't want to compete with them, so maybe a solid 125 HP unit to pull a 540 round baler more easily than my mid size is what I'm leaning towards. I can't imagine dropping 25-50K on a used square baler any time soon, either. lol


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## evan

I cant imagine coming up with the money they want for a big square either. I looked long and hard and tried several differnt ways to get a big square to pencil, and i just couldnt do it. The start up cost is way too high. Plus there are a lot of people around here that buy bales to wrap and they arent able to handle squares, so that would be one huge group lost. On the flip side if we all had square balers we could have a lot more fun in the field like this guy.....
Human Hay Bale - YouTube


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## Gearclash

> adapters all have a small amount of wobble as well


We run a CIH 7140 with the large 1000 and after some hunting around found a really good quality adapter to step down to small 1000. It uses two bolts to clamp tight and eliminate any wobble. By the way, don't use a large 1000 to small 1000 adapter on high hp loads as they are likely to twist and eventually fail.


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