# Farmall 560 loader hydraulic cylinder



## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I have an old Farmall 560 with a front-end loader. I use it to move round bales and Brewers grains to my animals. With the smaller round bales and Bins I can tilt it back just fine, when I get to the Big 5 by 6 bales and the larger bins it will no longer tilt back... in fact when I go to Tilt back they slowly bleed forward. As long as I don't need to tilt it back it's not an issue but I had a neighbor tell me that if has the strength to lift it should have the strength to Tilt it back. I would be more inclined to think that cylinder size will be the difference there but when I don't have the spear hooked up and I push and pull the loader, one cylinder will fully extend and then the other one and vice-versa to retract is it possible to cylinders are leaking or is that just the nature of the Beast? I grasp the concept on how a cylinder works but in no way understand it completely


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

How much the arm cylinders can move vs how much the bucket cylinders can move depends entirely on the cylinder size and the geometry. I have seen loaders where the arm cylinders can move more than the bucket cylinders, and I have seen it the other way around too. The way your cylinders behave with no attachment on is normal.


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Is it possible that the larger loads put more pressure down than the cylinders put out? Kinda like they have more leverage?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Aaroncboo said:


> Is it possible that the larger loads put more pressure down than the cylinders put out? Kinda like they have more leverage?


Yes. For sure.


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

So it entirely possible that the cylinders are fine but just not able to tilt the load.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Aaroncboo said:


> So it entirely possible that the cylinders are fine but just not able to tilt the load.


Almost certainly. I run into that situation all time with my little skid steers, when moving big round bales. The bucket cylinders run out of oomph before they run out of travel because of poor geometry. So the standard operating procedure is to roll the bucket cylinders as far back as possible with the arms all the way down, then lift with the arms and DON'T TOUCH the bucket cylinder control because all it will do is go the wrong way. I know the bucket cylinders are good as they have been apart for new seals.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Is your bale spear attach to your bucket or have it's own attachment to the loader? The reason for asking is if spear is attached to loader bucket you even changing the geometry more so, being it mounted further away from cylinders.

Larry


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I had a chain on spear that I used for probably 7-8 years until it bent the crap out of the bucket. When I switched to Brewers grains as well I built a double spear that would also serve as a fork and I built that to pin directly to the loader frame.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Aaroncboo said:


> I had a chain on spear that I used for probably 7-8 years until it bent the crap out of the bucket.


Well you blew my first thought up. So here is number two, if your loader worked before with chain spear (thinking same size/weight of bales being handled). You might not like this one, have you checked your hydraulic pressure, perhaps the pump is getting old like me, with not as much ump as it did years ago. 

Larry


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

The bucket didn't help back with the chain Spear either. It got a little easier after I got rid of my bucket actually because the load was closer to the Pivot Point. the original cylinders have a 2 1/4 bore with a 1 3/8 shaft so if I replace them with a 1 1/4 shaft and a 3.5 inch bore that may up the oomph of the tilt? I have checked the pressure over the years and it was never out of the ordinary but I did order a gauge so I can make one and test it again.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Aaroncboo said:


> The bucket didn't help back with the chain Spear either. It got a little easier after I got rid of my bucket actually because the load was closer to the Pivot Point. the original cylinders have a 2 1/4 bore with a 1 3/8 shaft so if I replace them with a 1 1/4 shaft and a 3.5 inch bore that may up the oomph of the tilt? I have checked the pressure over the years and it was never out of the ordinary but I did order a gauge so I can make one and test it again.


Changing cylinder size sure should change your # of force. IIRC, a cylinder has more force one direction than the other, because it is based on sq. inches of surface of the puck available. The shaft side reduces the area on one side verses other.

So with a 3.5" bore, you might have a 3" inside (example only), so the puck would have 3" of surface on one side and a 3" of surface on other side MINUS the shaft area.

Math works like this (I think, been out of school a looonnng time): 1.5" x 1.5" x 3.142857 = 7.07 square inches on one side, 0.625 x 0.625 x 3.142857 = 1.23 square inches, used by shaft size, so 7.07 -1.23 = 5.84 square inches of surface on shaft side. If you were applying 1,000# of PSI, the cylinder force would be 7,071# out and 5,843# in.

How does this equate to what you had, with a 2 .25" cylinder, with a 1.375" shaft, here are the rough numbers 3,143# out and 1,657# in. You have more than doubled your out force, while more than tripling the in force (most likely roll back). 

Only thing that I would be concerned with, shaft size reduction. Remember weakest link has to give. 

Your numbers could be much different from my fuzzy math ones. While I might have short changed you with my two cents. :huh: I sure hope someone corrects me.

Larry


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

I will flat-out tell you... Everybody on this site is worth two cents and infinitely more. Even if the math is a little off you'll never hear any judgment from me it took me four years to pass freshman math... It's just nice to have people to bounce ideas off of that have similar experiences.


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

That was kind of my thought too is if I can double or triple the pull it would make it a whole lot easier for everything I've got going. I bought an accumagrapple for the front of it and it lifts easy as could be but I can't tilt it back which means after I lifted and stack the hay I would have to put the grapple on the ground and tilt back using the ground to push back. Not something I want to do to the grapple not to mention a huge waste of time. I rebuilt the entire plunger assembly and feeder rack on the Baler this year got new tires and did some small engine work to some of the tractors I built a canopy for the tractor which I'll have to post a picture soon now that it's done. New blades and tires on the discbine this is the only part that still giving me fits for for all the preseason work I finally got done. This is the first year I'm going to go into baling with equipment that is up to par. And would like to continue that.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm old enough when I was a kid in the farm 4& 560s were the big tractors. I think I know what the problem on your tractor is for sure. The pressure relief / safety valve, needs taken out and cleaned.. It is in the cover Between the clutch pedals and brake pedals, Dead center facing you when you're sitting on the tractor. You will have no trouble finding Details on dismantling those hydraulics On YouTube


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Another thing I thought of on those old tractors, Sometimes it helps to overfill the hydraulic oil by one gallon. And also to get those extra functions, Have the 2 point hitch raised all the way up ..And if the tractor has draft control Have that closed or In the position that it will lift a hitch the whole way up


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## Aaroncboo (Sep 21, 2014)

Thank you. I will pull it out and give it a shot. I need to get the rear axle seal redone as it leaks a little bit but there's a serial number break I guess. I'm hesitant to fill the fluid just to drain it again. Seems like a waste but I'll have to think of it as a flush... New filter is on order too


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