# New guy, new hay field, same old sand burr questions



## Boomtown (Aug 26, 2014)

OK. I've tried to do my homework, so I'm mainly wanting to run by what I've gathered to make sure I've got a handle on things.

The backstory:

I have a little 10 (or so) acre area that I hotwired off last year and we cut some hay. Worked out OK, but it was pretty rough and bumpy. In the spring I went in there and disc'ed the thing real well, then harrowed it until it was fairly smooth. When the bermuda started up, I fertilized it, then sprayed it with 2,4D. The bermuda came back very well. We just cut 35 bales of it.

Well, the downside was that what had been a very minor problem with sandburrs is now a big problem.

My research says that the way to handle this would be to come in right now, and Roundup the whole thing. Then, in the spring fertilize, and possibly spray with Pastora. Does this sound accurate? I'd have never wanted to Roundup something this big, it seems a little extreme. But the Noble Foundation, and this site seem to report good results from it. A little expensive, but I'm willing if it will have a significant impact.

Some of the neighbors say just to turn the cows onto it, and fertilize it for a couple years, and hope they'll get choked out.

I'm not a big hay cutter. This area is just pretty nice, so I decided to turn it to a hay meadow, because you never know when you'll need it.

Thanks for any input. I'm in Oklahoma, where you never know how hot and dry it might get. Or whatever crazy thing the weather will do to you.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Boomtown said:


> OK. I've tried to do my homework, so I'm mainly wanting to run by what I've gathered to make sure I've got a handle on things.
> 
> The backstory:
> 
> ...


I would not spray with round up.....I would spray Pastora and spot spray those areas. If the burrs are all over the field, then broadcast the entire field, the Bermuda will hardly miss a beat.....may not cut again this year but deal with them now, and in the spring at green-up, spray again with Pastora......hth


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## Boomtown (Aug 26, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I would not spray with round up.....I would spray Pastora and spot spray those areas. If the burrs are all over the field, then broadcast the entire field, the Bermuda will hardly miss a beat.....may not cut again this year but deal with them now, and in the spring at green-up, spray again with Pastora......hth


Yeah, they've kind of gotten all over the place now. Plus, since cutting the grass, I can't really tell where the worst spots were. There's no chance we'd want to cut this again this year. It will be hot and dry to the point that the grass will not grow or green again unless we get rains in the fall. That was why I wasn't sure if I should spray Pastora now, or wait till spring.

Like I said, the Roundup idea seems like overkill, and with the possibility of some other problems, but I can see the logic behind it. Here's their findings with Roundup, Pastora, and Panoramic:

http://www.noble.org/global/ag/soils/sandburs/sandburs.pdf

Luckily, I have a neighbor that is very experienced in the hay field. (ha) He's a smart guy, that's been cutting and selling hay for 30+ years, and really studies that stuff. He's used every thing in the book to control them, with varying success. Anyway, I'm going to study the situation with him. He thinks Pastora is pretty good, but still has flare ups.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good link....if it were me, I believe I would spray Pastora, although I've never sprayed it this late as a broadcast product, I have sprayed it in spot treatments for burrs and Baha'i, I recently (2 weeks ago) spot sprayed for Baha'i and I didn't notice any damage to the Bermuda that was all around it (Bermuda had 10 days of growth) the Baha'i however was dead....I would broadcast, if it is all over the field, and then apply a bit of N for faster recovery of the Bermuda going into the dormant season. When is first frost generally in your area?

Forgot to mention, make sure to add adjuvant to your mix....


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## Boomtown (Aug 26, 2014)

Thought I'd pop back in and let you all know what we've done.

I'm lucky to have a neighbor with many years of cattle and hay experience. We looked over the Noble Foundation report and followed it pretty much.

First, since the hay cutting is done, I turned the cows out to graze, and clean up the field for the last few weeks. Then we mixed up a "weak" mix of generic Roundup, approx 6 oz per acre, and sprayed all the areas where sanburs are a problem. I sprayed 7-8 days ago, and so far am very happy. The sandburs as well as some Johnson grass are browned out, and look dead. The bermuda is still green, its growth may have slowed, by it looks good.

The plan is to spray again in the spring with 1 oz Pastora per acre.

For Somedevildawg (above) I'll ask my neighbor what he thinks of the N onto the Bermuda now. Makes sense, its what I do on the lawn. Another factor is that I've decided to sew some pasture mix of wheat and cereal rye over the same area next month. The ground is pretty loose from being disc'ed in the spring, so I think it will take root if I get it out just before a rain. Also got talked into buying a bag of Austrian winter peas to try out. Mostly for the garden.

Thanks for your help.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good luck to you boomtown....thanks for the update


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## darwood (Jun 7, 2010)

On sandburrs, there is a product call plateau that works great at 5 oz/acre. The only drawback is you'll stunt your bermuda about 30 days. The stuff is a bit pricey also. The low rate of RU after a hay cutting works decent, except if there is too long a delay after cutting the hay and before spraying the RU. If you wait more than five days you get bermuda injury at times. The low rate of RU can be 5 to 8 oz/acre. Also, N fertilization is not recommended on bermuda in the late season. P and K are ok to apply but not N, you don't want the plant trying to grow leaves when it needs to be storing nutrients in the root system for over wintering.


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