# Questions about biomass



## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

I am going to attend the Bio eConference at Purdue on the 1st of Dec. I am going as media so I can write about it on the forum/blogs. So, does anybody have any questions they want asked? I will try to get links or the briefings and post them for folks that are interested. Since it may be an option for folks in our business I figure we will look into it and see if it is viable...although I am not sold on it yet...I cannot count it out until I look at all the options and I am sure folks have thought of things I have not...and probably the academic world has not thought about either. Thanks in Advance.


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

would you inquire about the use of chopped sunflower stalks? I am already using the seeds and the heads will be gone, but there is still quite a bit of stalk that I think could be used...Just a thought


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

This place may be of interest to someone.Show Me Energy Cooperative


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## buckeye (Jul 21, 2009)

My only question is when should I start planting switchgrass?


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

I saw a thread at NEW AGTALK last week about using wood ash as a liming amendment on hay ground. The calcium and other minerals in wood ash seem to be a cheap (free?) alternative to lime and might substitute for some fertilizer if you use enough of it. Could you find out if other souces of ash from burning Biomass have potential as liming or fertilizer amendments?


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Hayboy1 said:


> would you inquire about the use of chopped sunflower stalks? I am already using the seeds and the heads will be gone, but there is still quite a bit of stalk that I think could be used...Just a thought


You can sell them to pellet plants...the folks at the conference said price depends on regional plant, if you have one near you it may be worth baling if you do not have a long distance transport.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> This place may be of interest to someone.Show Me Energy Cooperative


These guys were discussed at the conference and a small part of a presentation as probably the most successful in the business...they use most for power and the rest they bad and sell for pellet stoves...I get some more data from the material they are providing from the conference.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

buckeye said:


> My only question is when should I start planting switchgrass?


This paper was provided by Iowa State University...it gives some options to consider...hope it helps...Iowa State was one of the colleges that participated in the bioenergy conference on 1 Dec.

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pub...ons/PM1773.pdf


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Hayguy said:


> I saw a thread at NEW AGTALK last week about using wood ash as a liming amendment on hay ground. The calcium and other minerals in wood ash seem to be a cheap (free?) alternative to lime and might substitute for some fertilizer if you use enough of it. Could you find out if other souces of ash from burning Biomass have potential as liming or fertilizer amendments?


Biochar was discussed...internet explanation...

Enhancing soil

In addition to its potential for carbon sequestration, biochar has numerous co-benefits when added to soil. It can prevent the leaching of nutrients out of the soil,increase the available nutrients for plant growth,increase water retention,and reduce the amount of fertilizer required. Additionally, it has been shown to decrease N2O (Nitrous oxide) and CH4 (methane) emissions from soil, thus further reducing Green house gasses (GHG) emissions.

"Biochar sequestration does not require a fundamental scientific advance and the underlying production technology is robust and simple, making it appropriate for many regions of the world."Johannes Lehmann (he was a speaker at the Bio Conference...I will get his slides), of Cornell University, estimates that pyrolysis will be cost feasible when the cost of a CO2 ton reaches $37/ton,(as of an example--June 2008, CO2 was trading at $45/ton on the European Climate Exchange, or ECX) - so using pyrolysis for bioenergy production is feasible, even though it may be more expensive than fossil fuels at the moment. Biochar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Video: http://www.haytalk.com/forums/videos/?do=viewdetails&videoid=34


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## cattleman4170 (Jan 26, 2010)

ON THE SHELF
As long as curde oil is low, below $80 a barrel all these biomass project using stalks, switchgrass, etc are on the shelf. Too expensive to produce a viable product. Biomass using wood products like stumps, ground wood waste, palettes are still being evaluated in the Power sector. I think mainly because of the higher BTU value and to be utilized in say a 125MW power unit and smaller. On the other hand, pelletized biomass from straw and grasses to be used in conjunction with coal fired power plants to reduce CO2 has great posibility. See the recent article in Furrows published by John Deere. 
We stay at the mercy of the Oil Companies. The People (USA) must continue to become independent of foreign oil.
And why is it that this Administration (EPA) will not allow the increase of the Ethanol blend from 10% to 15%? that alone would have a significant increase across the board from farming to end use.


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## iflylow (Jan 21, 2010)

cattleman4170 said:


> ON THE SHELF
> As long as curde oil is low, below $80 a barrel all these biomass project using stalks, switchgrass, etc are on the shelf. Too expensive to produce a viable product. Biomass using wood products like stumps, ground wood waste, palettes are still being evaluated in the Power sector. I think mainly because of the higher BTU value and to be utilized in say a 125MW power unit and smaller. On the other hand, pelletized biomass from straw and grasses to be used in conjunction with coal fired power plants to reduce CO2 has great posibility. See the recent article in Furrows published by John Deere.
> We stay at the mercy of the Oil Companies. The People (USA) must continue to become independent of foreign oil.
> And why is it that this Administration (EPA) will not allow the increase of the Ethanol blend from 10% to 15%? that alone would have a significant increase across the board from farming to end use.


I guess it may not matter now that the supreme court has ruled companies have the same rights as individuals (or more rights) Exxon Mobile made enough profits in the past two year to buy every senetor and house member in congress. After midterms we will know a lot more. The way it is now we may have $200.00 oil in a decade


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## cattleman4170 (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, low and behold, I see this morning that yesterday an agreement was reached with the pending legislation affecting Ethanol and Biodiesel production.

The EPA has finalized a rule implementing the renewable fuels mandate of 36 billion gallons by 2022 that was established by Congress. According to the EPA, increasing renewable fuels will reduce dependence on oil by more than 328 million barrels a year and reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions more than 138 million metric tons a year when fully phased in by 2022.

Some renewable fuels must achieve GHG emission reductions-compared to the gasoline and diesel fuels they displace-to be counted toward compliance with volume standards, EPA added.

Corn-based ethanol achieves a 21% GHG reduction compared to gasoline when "dubious ideas of international indirect land use change (ILUC) are included," the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA) states. Without ILUC, corn-based ethanol achieves a 52% GHG reduction, and cellulosic ethanol achieves a GHG reduction of 72-130 percent depending upon feedstock and conversion process. In a recent statement, the RFA said that the new RFS rules are "workable," but that the ILUC is "problematic."

The RFA also stated that the "EPA continues to rely on oft-challenged and unproven theories, such as international indirect land use change to penalize U.S. biofuels to the advantage of imported ethanol and petroleum."

The RFA addresses Brazilian sugarcane ethanol, for example, in an Issue Brief, which is available at RFA - Renewable Fuels Association. The organization adds, "despite the reliance on unproven science, the greenhouse gas benefits of all ethanol show tremendous improvements compared to gasoline." All GHG reductions for ethanol exceed those mandated by RFS2, the RFA states.

In related news, the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) reports that in 2010, 1.15 billion gallons of biodiesel will be required to be entered into commerce. EPA classifies biodiesel as an "advanced biofuel."


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Here are a few of my questions, and not having much luck searching for the answers. I think it has to do with my lack of knowledge on the terminalology.

If using a type of grass, does it need to be dried and put up and dried similar to hay?

How do you cut that type of volume? Disc mower, haybine, forage chooper?

What are the prices? per ton?

What are the different plants? cellulosic vs Biomass are they the same?

Thanks
Mark

Found this http://miscanthus.illinois.edu/wp-content/uploads/growersguide.pdf

However stops short on the harvesting side.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

kfarm_EC_IL said:


> Here are a few of my questions, and not having much luck searching for the answers. I think it has to do with my lack of knowledge on the terminalology.
> 
> If using a type of grass, does it need to be dried and put up and dried similar to hay?
> 
> ...


The whole cellulose/biomass game is confusing...first what are we harvesting...the following are considered cellulose materials and in turn biomass, in other words they were once living or living at harvest. What counts...well corn stover, corn stalks, bean stubble, switchgrass, miscanthus (which is the real prize at this time), yard waste, tree limbs, trees, many grasses....etc. That said, if you harvest for the USDA Biomass Crop Assistance Program (BCAP) program they do not accept yard waste and some other little rules.

Harvest of grasses...cut and harvest like hay...figure disk mower for the heavy biomass crops...Miscanthus and switchgrass grow tall...yields from 8-10 tons an acre for one cutting in the fall...November time frame.You can cut twice, but it costs time and fuel...once is recommended. These crops do take about 3 years to establish. So they give little back in the beginning. Miscanthus grows from sprigs at this time and costs a fortune in the US...cheap in Europe...a supply and demand problem. I have a chart I will try to find from a recent Purdue biomass discussion. Can be cut in fall and baled in spring, but not a good idea in Indiana...too wet in spring. Big square or round baler...big square better for hauling. The biomass plants will want the material down below 20% or less...why...mostly they do not want to pay for water weight...they buy based on a dry weight. How it affects a pellet plant I will have to ask the mill owner I know. He deals in DDGs but playing with cellulose. Visit Ag Fuel and Feed There is a mill in Southern Indiana, but they do not have a web site yet. I have to talk to them again, there are awaiting BCAP approval, which has stopped me from trying this out. I have to call them again, because I am still looking at a plan to try this out. By the way, you almost need to be within 25...no more than 50 miles from a plant or transportation will eat you up.

Money wise, I am disappointed...the plant in southern Indiana tells me $30 a ton for grass...any grass. Even with BCAP money added we are talking $60 a ton...I can make more or as much selling poor hay...my round bales last year that had been rained on and sold to a beef cattle operation did that a ton more or less and I did not have to truck them to a plant. Stalks and bean stubble are an option...20-25 a ton plus BCAP money...total $40-50...I talked to the guys at Purdue and they state what I remove will not have negative effect on the ground, not enough being removed. I almost tried the stalks/stubble baling thing...even had found a new baler to buy and had 800 acres of stalks/stubble lined up to round bale...but the Southern Indiana plant was not BCAP approved at the time, so I bowed out. To tell the truth, with the very wet fall, it was probably a blessing.

So at this time I do not see a producer being overly excited in Indiana. I still may give this a go, but it depends if I can be allowed to harvest some free state ground...they do not have to cut it if I do...so they save and I do not rent, fertilize, just harvest...fuel, machinery and time. Close to the plant in southern Indiana. However, if the FSA says state ground is not allowed under BCAP, then I do not see this as an attractive option at this particular time. They are looking into it.

Although my experience with this has been disappointing...Tennessee has something going on and it is well managed by the state...using tobacco money...Missouri has the Show Me Plant...probably best out there...South Dakota has POET...so there are some places to watch on how this plays out. Seems the state really makes or breaks it.

My experience has been in Indiana...which is not an overly friendly ag state anymore anyway. Others may have better luck...frankly the land I am farming right now is more profitable in alfalfa and orchard grass...making around $160 a ton with the horse folks with the good hay...less with the round baled stuff that got wet last year, but so is the business...at least I sold it. My thoughts for what they are worth...


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## cattleman4170 (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, it's all about energy. I would have thought a movement would take place towards using CRP land to produce a crop, like switchgrass or other similar reed plant. Still provide a subsidy of some sort or tax incentive to make it worrth while. After all look at all the junk programs the government throws money at already. The whole idea was two fold, #1 to gain independence from foreign oil, RIGHT? and #2 reduce air emissions. Ethanol from one plant source, a coal additive to reduce CO2 another source.


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