# Hay Beginner



## bsbentley (Feb 10, 2011)

I have a few questions on hay types in the Texas Blacklands:

I have done research on several types of grasses (World Feeder, Tifton-85, Tifton-44, Coastal, Jiggs, etc) but I havent found anything directly relating the burmuda in the blacklands. So my question is what is the best hybrid suitable for the black clay soil that will produce the best yeild. There has to be another blackland farmer out there who can answer my questions. I live near Greenville, Tx, an will likely be sprigging about 100 acres next year so im beginning my studies now. Thank you for the help.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Allow me to start by saying not Blacklands are the same. I am 8 miles south of Temple on tight clay with an 8 pH. 
From my perspective the ultimate bermudagrass is Tifton 85. Under equal treatment it will out yield any other by 15%. Add to that fed to cattle it will gain 15% more for the same amount of feed. 
But it is difficult to get sprigged. It is not a free lunch all that yield comes with fertilizer.

Jiggs will out yield Coastal in East Texas. Here it is best suited to wet ground. On dry dirt it will disappoint you.

World Feeder is over sold & does not do as well as any of the other common bermudagrasses.

Tifton 44 is a good grass but further north. It may work for you.

I suggest you talk to your County Agent he may have some ideas.

For all I know you may be within walking distance of East Texas State Teachers College, It goes by another name now. There you might pick up some good advise.

TAMU Extension has a number of good bulletins that have information.

On these pages is vhaby a fully certified qualified forage authority. He truthfully is a great source of information. He can provide better information than I.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Welcome to HayTalk. You have found an excellent site on which to ask your questions relative to forage production. You are wise to research the best hybrid bermudagrass considering that you want to sprig 100 acres.

Since I have been put on the spot by Hay Wilson, allow me to say how lucky you are to be within the consultation radius (100 miles) of the Noble Foundation at Ardmore, Oklahoma. The Noble Foundation offers free consultation to agricultural producers within this radius of Ardmore. I suggest that you contact the Noble Foundation with your question. Their web site is Noble Foundation Agricultural Division This foundation has teams of consultants assigned to various regions that will work with cooperating producers to improve their agricultural enterprise.

IMHO, Hay Wilson is correct in that Tifton 85 hybrid bermudagrass will be difficult to beat except on wet soils where Jiggs has better survivability- if it will survive the winter temperatures at Greenville, TX. Any hybrid bermudagrass requires high inputs of nitrogen and potash, and phosphorus based on soil test recommendations. My experience indicates that these three plant nutrients be supplied in a 4-1-5 ratio of N- P2O5- K2O for optimum production. However, your Blackland soil may already contain adequate potassium (potash) for sprigging a hybrid bermudagrass, and perhaps for the first one or two years of production. Regardless, a soil test should be your first step and the Noble Foundation will help you with that. If your soil test indicates low to very low phosphorus, apply all the recommended phosphorus in the pre-sprigging application and each spring in the initial fertilizer application. From then on, apply nitrogen and potash in a 4- 0 - 5 ratio following each cutting. It's not only the potassium, but chloride also is needed, and chloride is supplied in potash


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I say this because a friend not far from Waco has soil completely different than the soil here.

Conventional wisdom says a soil test that is 140 to 160 ppm K does not require potash. 
HERE 400 to 500 ppm K soil test still can use some additional potash for forage production. Hopefully I am on the threshold of understanding the mechanics and chemistry of the soil in Bell County, and more importantly on this farm. vhaby has contributed to my understanding of heavy clay soils. It appears that the construction of the clay provides openings for potassium to become trapped when the soil has enough moisture. The process of preparing a sample for analysis releases the trapped K. This is over and beyond the natural attraction for all cations to the clay.

If your soil is calcareous i.e. has excess or free calcium carbonate in the soil you may want to have a Free Lime test run. The deal is for each percentage of free lime requires an EXTRA 10 pounds of phosphate to increase the soil test by one part per million.

Here the soil analysis really should be done using the sodium bicarbonate chemistry, some times referred to as the Olsen Test.

Here an application of 100 - 500 lbs of Murate of Potash (0-0-60) plus an additional 100 - 500 lbs of K-Mag ( 0-0-22K-11Mg-22S) works wonders. 
The key is to use some form of plant analysis. June is a good time to pull soil samples and at the same time gather tissue samples. 
Even better is to pull hay samples from each cutting of each field.

From Overton Texas Extension Center you will find some excellent charts to give you guidance for plant analysis goals.

A bit of advise: 
100 acres in bermudagrass is a large undertaking. 
You will find that for hay baling you may have only 3 hours of baling between being too damp to bale and so dry that significant leaf loss a problem.
Here with my yield and my small square baler 5 or 6 acres is all the hay I can comfortably bale each day. It is possible to go beyond that but hay that is too dry will loose a third of it's yield and half of its feed value.

This is enough for now.


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## bsbentley (Feb 10, 2011)

Thank everyone for all the feedback. I do have farming experience, I farmed nearly 600 acres of wheat, soybeans, milo and cotton for nearly 10 years however I have no experience with hay. Never cut, raked or baled before, only hauled. Times are changing and I believe that grass farming can be more profitable than row crops. That is why Im transitioning to the hay buisness.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

This is a sampling of information available. 
The first 5 have a lot of good information.

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

Management Tips for Round Bale Hay Harvesting, Moving, and Storage - Virginia Cooperative Extension

http://www.uwex.edu/ces/forage/pubs/drying_forage.pdf

http://pubsadmin.caes.uga.edu/files/pdf/B 911_2.PDF

https://agrilifebookstore.org/publications_browse2.cfm?keywordid=161

Determining Forage Moisture Concentration - Virginia Cooperative Extension

http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/MP434.pdf

Determining Forage Moisture Concentration - Virginia Cooperative Extension


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

We have sprigged Coastal, Tifton 44, and Tifton 85 all over East Texas and to answer your question it just really depends on what you want to do. If you are looking for the best grass overall it is hard to beat Tifton 85 it will have better feed tests and on yield it wins hands down every time. There are some tricks to growing it and getting it put up right for horse hay though if that is the market you are looking to get into. Coastal and Tifton 44 are very similar quality grasses and both can be managed close to the same way.

I have heard good things about Jiggs but, I don't know of any good stands locally.

My number is 903-413-0912 and the website is Jim Russell Hay & Sprig Farm, Inc. - Tifton 85, Tifton 44 and Coastal bermuda grass hay and sprigs for sale feel free to call me if you have anymore questions about sprigging, the grasses, or if you just want to come out and look at the operation.

Forgot to add we are located in Sulphur Springs and while not on blackland we can give you some references of guys we have done around your area in the blackland.


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