# Irrigation Worth It on Small Operation?



## Soggy Bottom (Feb 4, 2020)

Hello There. I am in the process of starting some coastal fields around my house in South Texas. I have around 15 acres to sprig if it will ever rain down here. I have been pondering on getting an irrigation system setup to water my field. This would be a start up operation ground up. A new water well is around $8500 and I figure a decent hose reel setup to be around $12,000. Getting power to the new well would be around $2500 I am figuring. My question is can I justify these cost and make it back on coastal horse hay square bales. I am confident I can sell the square bales to horse people in the area for a decent price. Is it worth the investment for a small operation. Thanks


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You done went and opened up a can of worms Soggy bottom

It's a big investment, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. 
What about equipment? 
Ever grown hay before?
What is a "decent price"? 
How is the field laid out?
And lastly do you have adequate capital to complete the deal? (It's sizable depending on those other ?)
You may be able to do this in a variety of ways but some of the above ? Need answered....

Welcome to Haytalk Soggy Bottom....(the land ain't soggy is it  )


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## Soggy Bottom (Feb 4, 2020)

Thanks for the feed back. I have a guy close to me that will cut and bale for me. This will be my first time growing hay. I have fed alot of horses hay and have alot of contacts in the horse world and in our area people are paying $8 to 1$10 for good quality hay. I have trucks/trailers for hauling and a tractor at the moment. Plan on buying a 10 bale grapple to help with gathering and stacking. The field is layed out well for irrigating and haying. Its flat land rectangle shaped 600'x900' roughly. I am thinking in terms of cattle. More head more money you make. So if I can go from 2-3 cuttings a year with regular rain to 5-6 cuttings a year with irrigation it may be worth it. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## scout (Jan 14, 2015)

Just curious about the type of reel you're looking at using and have you figured in the supply pipe or hose, the pump to get the water to the reel, and the labor/equipment for moving all of that around. How many acres does the reel cover per pass? I ask because $12,000 doesn't seem be near enough for the setup that I have in my mind.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

How much water do you have available? Is gravity flood irrigation an option?


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## Stxpecans123 (May 18, 2020)

I don't think irrigated coastal is going to pay on 15 acres. Besides coastal is very drought tolerate once established. I wouldn't attempt it unless you have a very cheap source of water.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Stxpecans123 said:


> I don't think irrigated coastal is going to pay on 15 acres. Besides coastal is very drought tolerate once established. I wouldn't attempt it unless you have a very cheap source of water.


I kinda agree with this....where are you going to get the water, a pond and use the well to fill the pond? $8500 ain't gonna get you enuf pump to use that reel. Gonna need a 6" well at least and about 200 gpm, probably 30-40 hp and three phase power. I'm thinking more like 17-20k, (Our area at least) Sounds about right for a traveler of decent quality. 
If you drill a 4" well and fill a pond, you can use a centrifugal pump out of the pond. That's the cheapest method. 
As far as payoff....yes it will pay, but it needs to be looked at as a 10yr payback. But it will pay....you can inject NPK. Don't have to wait for rain, and get additional cuttings for that reason....not sure it'll be as substantial as your predictions however. But you can probably get one more for sure. On years where rain is scarce, you'll be in a good position. One thing about a traveler, it's work.....investing in a pivot would be much better.


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## Hayman5555 (Apr 3, 2015)

Thanks for asking this question Soggy Bottom. I have about 20 acres (three horse pastures about 6.5 ac. each) that I am thinking about irrigating. I'm in a little different situation. We are getting 'City water', so I now have a 6 in. well with nothing to do. I also have a 2 ac. bass pond close by. I am having a hard time finding cost information about the traveling irrigation systems for small acreage, and determining if it is worth the cost.

I'm also looking forward to the answers.

Tim


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Hayman5555 said:


> Thanks for asking this question Soggy Bottom. I have about 20 acres (three horse pastures about 6.5 ac. each) that I am thinking about irrigating. I'm in a little different situation. We are getting 'City water', so I now have a 6 in. well with nothing to do. I also have a 2 ac. bass pond close by. I am having a hard time finding cost information about the traveling irrigation systems for small acreage, and determining if it is worth the cost.
> 
> I'm also looking forward to the answers.
> 
> Tim


Was the 6" servicing your house Tim? That's very unusual.....


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## Stxpecans123 (May 18, 2020)

Do you have gophers? If not sub surface drip is how you do it. This photo I took yesterday as we installed some in a pecan orchard. With 100 gallons a min I think you could sub surface drip 50 acres. So for 15 acres 30 to 40 gpm should do.

This would be to suppliment during dry times. If you live in a desert your going to need more water. Remember coastal Bermuda can use alot of water. But I think with subsurface drip you save a little by being very efficient. Plus spoon feeding the roots you gunna grow some grass. I would do 6 foot apart with 48 inch spacing emitters and go with the smallest emitter possible and have a good filtration system. 
Once it starts drying out a little just turn it on and let it run til it rains or gets to wet.


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## Soggy Bottom (Feb 4, 2020)

Thanks for all the info. The reel systems I have looked at say they require 40-80 gallon per min. The well drilling people said they can get those specs from a regular 4" well they would drill for a house. The cost I see is 12-15k for a reel system, 10k for a well including a new power poll. I think for 30k i could get the system in place. I am thinking once the field is established on a normal year without irrigation I can cut somewhere around 1300 bales at $4 profit equaling around $5,500 total profit. With irrigation I was thinking around 2800 bales possibly more at $4 profit equaling around 11k total profit. Do my numbers sound somewhat accurate? I am figuring 1 ton on hay per acre per cutting and 65lb bales. Possibly more per acre with irrigation. Thanks again for the input.


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## Hayman5555 (Apr 3, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> Was the 6" servicing your house Tim? That's very unusual.....


My farm was originally a 90+ acre Christmas tree farm, so the well also supplied irrigation to the trees (I have no idea how the trees were irrigated). I only have 33 acres, mostly cleared and using for hay. Today the well just services the house, barn, and stable.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Soggy Bottom said:


> Thanks for all the info. The reel systems I have looked at say they require 40-80 gallon per min. The well drilling people said they can get those specs from a regular 4" well they would drill for a house. The cost I see is 12-15k for a reel system, 10k for a well including a new power poll. I think for 30k i could get the system in place. I am thinking once the field is established on a normal year without irrigation I can cut somewhere around 1300 bales at $4 profit equaling around $5,500 total profit. With irrigation I was thinking around 2800 bales possibly more at $4 profit equaling around 11k total profit. Do my numbers sound somewhat accurate? I am figuring 1 ton on hay per acre per cutting and 65lb bales. Possibly more per acre with irrigation. Thanks again for the input.


Ok, I get it now....you using a very small hose reel to cover 15 acres, it can be done but you will work yourself to death. Are you going to put risers in the field? How is that reel system going to be set up? I have a small traveler on 10 acres and I have to "pull" 4 times to water the field. And I'm pushing about 150gpm, hose is 350' at 2.5" and after 10 years, it's still quite the pita but doable. If I had to do over, I would place a pivot and be done with it. 
I'm not a expert by any means on head pressure for 4" wells, but I have a difficult time believing that a 4" well will deliver 80gpm. Anything less, might as well figure on a few more "pulls" as you're not gonna get the max distribution of the nozzle....I always preach to my wife that bigger isn't always better  but in irrigation, bigger is better.....hth


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I been following this with interest. Neighbor has a center pivot on a well that hasn't been used in years. I thought a about purchasing it, then you got me interested in travelers, now 6 has me looking a sub irrigation.

I have a creek 150' from a 9 acre field and it runs alongside a 13 acre field. 50' away, with a 25-30' hill. That is what I'm thinking for a water source.

Larry


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Noth8ng like having H2O on a field Larry, I don’t know how it would pencil out for your crops, but I imagine pretty well. With Bermuda it’s a huge difference....probably 3 ton per acre if not more. I wish all of my fields were wet. Contemplating buying a pivot now on a 78 acre field and watering out of a snake hole that’s next to it (it is a 7 acre snake hole) but I may opt to drill a 6” well and submergable pump. Idk, unfortunately those pesky $ always dominate the decision making....


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## Soggy Bottom (Feb 4, 2020)

For a numbers purposes is it fair to say you can double hay production with irrigation per acre. I am figuring 3-4 tons of coastal per acre per year with regular rain. With irrigation I am figuring 6-8 tons per acre per year. Do these numbers sound close? I do plan on fertilizing after each cutting. If I can sell the bales for $8 each does $4 profit per bale sound reasonable?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

No, probably not 50% increase but your total number is probably accurate. Depending on the hybrid 8tons is doable, maybe even 10 with some varieties.....
Yes production numbers sound accurate, cost analysis sounds fair.....
But one thing irrigation can't do is dry a crop.....if rain sets in during harvest your $8 bale of hay went to a $3 bale of hay and your cost analysis of $4 went to $4.50. Oh the joy.....


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## scout (Jan 14, 2015)

We have sub drip, reels, and pivots. For the sub drip, no loss to the air so big plus there. I like the pivots because the repairs are easy to get to. I hate the reels if you have to move them.

We have pressure compensating emitters on our sub drip so I have to maintain a certain pressure to make them work. They make them, though, where pressure isn't a big deal and you irrigate what you have. Plus with drip, you get all of the acres; pivots you either have dry corners or add corner arms to get most of that.

For drip in Bermuda fields, we had a problem with voles (cross between a mole and a field rat). Add to the fact that we're on heavy clay and fixing those leaks was a nightmare; that is now a corn field, problem solved. They make a poison for them though.

We installed drip at 60" (that's set up for 30" rows on a planter) and then 40" spacing when we decided to use it for alfalfa. At both of those spacings, it's really not close enough for a broadcast crop, but it's too expensive to go closer. The emitters are around 18-20" apart.

Now, all of my alfalfa is under a pivot, and corn on drip. Bermuda under a pivot or reels.


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## scout (Jan 14, 2015)

The pressure compensating emitters is because we have hills. Flatter ground, and you don't need them. Without pressure compensating on hills, most of your water would come out at the low end.


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## Stxpecans123 (May 18, 2020)

scout said:


> The pressure compensating emitters is because we have hills. Flatter ground, and you don't need them. Without pressure compensating on hills, most of your water would come out at the low end.


I didn't know they made drip emitters that were not pressure compensated. Not to mention your hills but just the pressure loss through the pipe the first emitter would be putting out more than the last.


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## scout (Jan 14, 2015)

I could easily be wrong. Our installers are out of west Texas and I'm pretty sure our rep said they don't use pressure compensating emitters out west because it's flatter.


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Soggy Bottom said:


> Thanks for all the info. The reel systems I have looked at say they require 40-80 gallon per min. The well drilling people said they can get those specs from a regular 4" well they would drill for a house. The cost I see is 12-15k for a reel system, 10k for a well including a new power poll. I think for 30k i could get the system in place. I am thinking once the field is established on a normal year without irrigation I can cut somewhere around 1300 bales at $4 profit equaling around $5,500 total profit. With irrigation I was thinking around 2800 bales possibly more at $4 profit equaling around 11k total profit. Do my numbers sound somewhat accurate? I am figuring 1 ton on hay per acre per cutting and 65lb bales. Possibly more per acre with irrigation. Thanks again for the input.


The well can produce 40-80 GPM but the issue is they cannot produce the minnium 60psi at 40-80 GPM that most all traveling sprinklers require so you would most likely need a booster pump. I have a 8" well that has a 50hp 3ph motor used to irrigate 150ac of row crop it moves a ton of water but produces very little psi. I bought 2 kifco water reels end of last year and have plans on running them off the well with 2 gas powered booster pumps 1 on each reel to irrigate 15ac of Bermuda. At least that is my plane going to give it a try and see if it is worth it or not. When I start irrigation with it I will post my results with some pic and video of the setup.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ranger518 said:


> The well can produce 40-80 GPM but the issue is they cannot produce the minnium 60psi at 40-80 GPM that most all traveling sprinklers require so you would most likely need a booster pump. I have a 8" well that has a 50hp 3ph motor used to irrigate 150ac of row crop it moves a ton of water but produces very little psi. I bought 2 kifco water reels end of last year and have plans on running them off the well with 2 gas powered booster pumps 1 on each reel to irrigate 15ac of Bermuda. At least that is my plane going to give it a try and see if it is worth it or not. When I start irrigation with it I will post my results with some pic and video of the setup.


You can't neck that 8" down and get enough PSI? Sounds expensive to put booster pumps on....


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

somedevildawg said:


> You can't neck that 8" down and get enough PSI? Sounds expensive to put booster pumps on....


Was told that do to it being a submersible high volume pump not designed for any type of pressure just volume and if I necked it down it would cause a close to a dead head on the pump and put to much of a load on it which would cause impeller or pump damage. Figured not worth the risk on about a 10k repair bill if it damaged it. And a gas powered booster pump for the reel is less then 2k plus it will allow me to run it my pastels and other areas that don't have a well but do have access to water via a pond on irrigation canella. But who knows it may work and I may try it.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

You were told right on submersibles. They can take a bit of back pressure, but not too much. Neighbor does the same. Pumps into a concrete pit linked to a storage channel , then runs a 60ac pivot off of it with a big 6cyl diesel.


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