# To expand or not?



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I've been approached to sell some farm eq.But to do so I should add a employee to do it currectly.My current part time help is not mechanical enough to fill the spot.And I it would be during my busy times that any service/repairs would be needed.There wouldn't be enough work for a full time employee,at first anyway.

Did I say she says enough is enough!!We do enough already.

If it was 20 yrs ago I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat.But this would take some time dureing busy times to do it correctly.It could also tie up some $ if the farm economy goes to crap in inventory sitting unsold.

This would fit my operation like a glove,cross marketing with my other ag sales.I'm sure that's why I was approached.

I wouldn't get rich off it but it would add to the kitty.I'm a firm believer in being diversified,and this would add some diversification.

Did I say she said NO,we don't have time.We might as well sell the boat then.We have no time to go fishing now!!


----------



## bensbales (Jul 18, 2011)

I feel your pain. My wife and i are having a similar conversation now. I'm looking at buying a farm that could double the size of my hay business. Her point is" i don't see you enough now! If you take on twice as much i will never see you" She works a regular job so it makes it hard to find time for her when the weather doesn't let me me get the work done monday through friday. Im a firm believer when an opportunity presents itself you should always investigate it fully and if it looks like a good fit do it. Some day in the future you might need that opportunity but it won't be available. Can you add another part timer that is mechanically inclined?


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

bensbales said:


> I feel your pain. My wife and i are having a similar conversation now. I'm looking at buying a farm that could double the size of my hay business. Her point is" i don't see you enough now! If you take on twice as much i will never see you" She works a regular job so it makes it hard to find time for her when the weather doesn't let me me get the work done monday through friday. Im a firm believer when an opportunity presents itself you should always investigate it fully and if it looks like a good fit do it. Some day in the future you might need that opportunity but it won't be available. Can you add another part timer that is mechanically inclined?


That is exactly what I need!!A part timer that is mechanicaly inclined.A guy on call would be perfect but probably not possible.

Everything else I got covered pretty well.I might just have to take her fishing more often!!


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

This is just an idea, and it works for me. Do you have someone local that has an employee that they can spare once in a while? I have been known to "rent" an employee from a local large scale farmer. I simply let him know what and when I need something done and then cover the cost of the employee for the days I need them. The employee gets to do something different and stays on the normal payroll.It is a win, win for both of us as our busiest times do not coincide.
EDIT- As to the other half, we all have our burdens to bear, and share.


----------



## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

I know where you guys are coming from . Been thinking of buying a another tractor 100 hp plus or so . Problem being is our custom work interferes with trying to make my hay on time, as we all know it's all already at the same time . Plus I'm going to put out another 25 acres of hay out this fall. A tractor this size would let us round bale and square ,or mow at the same time .

The boy that helps me is good help , He's not off a farm but is very conscientious with the equipment . He's 21 and been helping me since he was 16 or so . I also know he's going to wake up soon and find himself a full time job or at least something with more hours year round.

What to do what to do . Like you said Swmnhay on call person would be nice. Though I'm the on call guy for my high school buddy and his dad

and brother that I baled for 40 years ago . lol My wife ask me sometimes if those guys have me on a retainer ,like a lawyer .


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

So many things come down to good help anymore. Farming and the equipment for it is becoming so complex that it takes a pretty sharp and dedicated person to deal with it.


----------



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

How old are you cy and what kind of equipment are you buying? Is it just an expansion of what you currently do or is it a different kind of farming?


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

ontario hay man said:


> How old are you cy and what kind of equipment are you buying?


Gee ontario....don't you think that is a bit personal?

Regards, Mike


----------



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Well it would help to give advice. I dont want to tell a guy thats 75 to expand lol. I know your not that old cy but it all depends what you want to do. Do you wanna start slowing down or go full tilt?


----------



## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Cy,

Sounds like you already know what you want to do, and Karen knows what she wants to do, but you have two different goals. You need to decide where to meet, whether that's full bore ahead, or off to the lake, or somewhere in between.

If its the equipment deal you mentioned to me once before, I personally might have a hard time passing it up. There's a lot to think about. Good Luck! 

Tom


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I've passed up several opportunities the last few years, some were good and would have required quality employees and some were just more risk with little upside. In the short term it was wise to pass cause life is good for now.

However I carry some guilt because I haven't created opportunities for others. There are plenty in need, maybe not for money but for purpose. I don't really think too many want purpose though. It's a lot of hassle to manage a business, have a family life, and rehabilitate/train broken folk.

That's one sad thing about modern agribusiness compared to the past. It used to be any farm of decent size had lots of opportunities for entry level help to develop skills. With all regulations today, valuable equipment most farms have and complexity in maintenance, you need quality employees from the start. They generally aren't the ones that need opportunity in the first place and will command lots of compensation.

Best of luck with your decision.


----------



## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

You fellas might check with any area technical colleges that have a diesel program, or tech schools/universities that have an ag program. You can find part-time help from these programs, sometimes. Might be an opportunity to work with the school to set up an internship for students looking for the experience.


----------



## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Well Ontario, Cy is younger than me. Cy, I don't know what type of deal you are looking at, but around here, I have 4 different guys that I can call to do mechanical work if needed. I do all of the small stuff along with maintenance but if I have an excavator or dozer go out on me and it involves heavy work, I just call them. They have also done maintenance work for me if our crew is too busy. Although my guys are $60 per hr. it might be an option. Good luck in what ever you do and keep Karen fishing. If mama's not happy, ain't nobody happy.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

ontario hay man said:


> How old are you cy and what kind of equipment are you buying? Is it just an expansion of what you currently do or is it a different kind of farming?


Well I'm 54,where the heck did that last 20 yrs go?

Yea its directly related to what I am doing now but in the ag sales end.I currently sell generators,netwrap,twine,hay preservative and forage seed.And this would intertwine with them perfectly."Cross Marketing 101" as my sister with the degree in maketing calls it.

Total hrs to do this would not be a whole lot more then I'm doing now beings I'm in sales already.It is just the service work that has me a bit worried.There are a few independent mechanics in the area close by that I probably could farm out some repair work if I'm not available.I could also check with some technical schools to see if someone is looking for some part time work.

My long term goal is IF I retire from farming is to continue the ag sales end of my operation.Then I can pick my hrs and go fishing when they are biteing instead of planting corn.


----------



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Lol so go for it then. A friend of mine retired from dairy and continued selling his bio ag stuff aswell as a line of feed additives. Hes doing good and has some freedom to.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Well I'm 54,where the heck did that last 20 yrs go?
> 
> Yea its directly related to what I am doing now but in the ag sales end.I currently sell generators,netwrap,twine,hay preservative and forage seed.And this would intertwine with them perfectly."Cross Marketing 101" as my sister with the degree in maketing calls it.
> 
> ...


I've always thought that selling a line of farm equipment would be interesting, but the parts and service part of that would be the difficult and stressful part in my opinion. The big dealers around here have a hard enough time finding and then keeping good service help and they have more then enough work for full time people. Especially when they charge $100 an hour.


----------



## Maryland Ridge Farms (Mar 1, 2009)

Interesting topic that we all have crossed paths with Im 48 and have a kid that's 25 help me, he is a fulltime fireman. My wife and I decided to cut him in to the farm by letting him run some cows with mine. Great call on our end he makes things happen while im at work. You might look into a fireman or a guy that's retired early and needs some spending money


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> I've always thought that selling a line of farm equipment would be interesting, but the parts and service part of that would be the difficult and stressful part in my opinion. The big dealers around here have a hard enough time finding and then keeping good service help and they have more then enough work for full time people. Especially when they charge $100 an hour.


The bigger dealers that have been buying up the smaller ones here and then jack their shop rates to $100-125 an hr seem to be loosing some mechanics.And the mechanics are opening there own shops.There are 3 new independent shops that started up here in the last yr.With 8 mechanics between them.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

aawhite said:


> You fellas might check with any area technical colleges that have a diesel program, or tech schools/universities that have an ag program. You can find part-time help from these programs, sometimes. Might be an opportunity to work with the school to set up an internship for students looking for the experience.


Dad used to do the same with Purdue, summer interns. Some it was quite obvious they were never going to be a "real" farmer, a few if they actually wanted to stay in the area we would have made a pretty impressive offer so they'd come back when they finished school.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Shh don't tell my wife but had an ofter to expand my haying dramatically. We are at 10,000 bales a year now haying about 100 acres. This would jump to 400 acres declining by about 30 acres per year so in 10 years back to what I do now.

I believe I will have to turn it down, given the price of hay is still about 3$ a bale here - its a pretty risky move. I'd have to buy a baron or self propelled balewagon or move to big square bales/round bales and rebale. Not gonna happen.

Sometimes the time just isn't worth giving up to get little in return.


----------



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I wouldnt touch a bale for 3 bucks gross. I profit over 3 a bale and have about 2.50 in it. Not counting my labour of course because us farmers never do lol.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I just got up to 4$ a bale delivered this season. At 3$ a bale delivered based on my tax return I had 3$ a bale into it while paying myself 0$ per hour.

I have had a lot of startup costs as I didn't inherit a farm. 10 years in and I'm finally getting into mainly inputs and repairs.


----------



## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

You must really love haying to do it for free. Atleast one benefit is staying fit without paying for a gym membership.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I do enjoy it, I'll enjoy it more once everyones prices are up. The last of the 2$ a bale hay guys are disappearing, moving into 5$ a bale for the premium suppliers. Thats where I would like to be and roll all my lower quality stuff.



ontario hay man said:


> You must really love haying to do it for free. Atleast one benefit is staying fit without paying for a gym membership.


----------



## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Is it possible to find a semi-retired person to help you out. One that is pretty much retired but still wants to do some work. Older employees are usually very dedicated, have pride in their work and can almost always be trusted.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

cornshucker said:


> Is it possible to find a semi-retired person to help you out. One that is pretty much retired but still wants to do some work. Older employees are usually very dedicated, have pride in their work and can almost always be trusted.


Yea that is kind of what I'm looking for.My BIL started helping this yr a little just helping with spring field work and hauling grain.It is quite pleasurable to have someone show up 20-30 min before he is supposed to.Compared to the last guy that was 1-2 hrs late or didn't show up at all.

The BIL wasn't involved in Ag so he is learning everything from scratch.Which I'm finding out is good because he does it how I tell him to do it not how he thinks he should do it.So he may be my guy with some training???


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> Which I'm finding out is good because he does it how I tell him to do it not how he thinks he should do it.


What a joy that would be.... 

Regards, Mike


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> What a joy that would be....
> 
> Regards, Mike


I agree, most I get are "over qualified".... Rather em never have touched a tractor


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I have one helping but recent heart attack so no heavy labour.

Found two kids at the local campground who actually work (grew up on farms) but didn't find them until August, hopefully they come back this year.

There is one more neighbour I may talk to about tedding for me, he used to do some snowblowing for a neighbour and is good with equipment, but also had heart attack within last 5 years.

Anyone know the results of a casual employee having a heart attack on the job besides my obvious concerns for them?



cornshucker said:


> Is it possible to find a semi-retired person to help you out. One that is pretty much retired but still wants to do some work. Older employees are usually very dedicated, have pride in their work and can almost always be trusted.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

somedevildawg said:


> I agree, most I get are "over qualified".... Rather em never have touched a tractor


I had a guy a few yrs back that if I told him how I wanted it done would say "don't you think I know how to do it"And if you didn't specifically tell him how to do it would just say "Well you didn't tell me to do it that way.So I did it my way"I said don't your phone work?It was getting to the point he was sitting on the end of the field on his phone with his wife or kids with all their drama.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> Anyone know the results of a casual employee having a heart attack on the job besides my obvious concerns for them?


I carry liability Insurance that covers part time help up to x hrs??

I also carry a umbrella policy of 2M for a reasonable cost of a few hundred per yr.I'm not sure if that is enough nowdays?


----------

