# Became debt free today



## Hayjosh

With the stroke of a single key, the wire payment was sent to pay off the balance of our mortgage. We took it out just under 7 years ago. Wells Fargo just lost out on $100,000 of interest from me, which they really could have used for paying off their $2B in fines because they're a dirtbag company.

That aside, I'm a free man today. Beholden to nobody, I 'own' everything I own. Been working at this a long time, and my wife and I have been working very hard at it. I was driving home tonight and I thought 'I'm 37 and I own my house and have no debt,' and it was difficult to grasp.

More $$$ for hay equipment now and tractors for days!!!!


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## SCtrailrider

Welcome to the club it's a great feeling.


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## rjmoses

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

I've been debt free since about 1986. It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it?

I was going through a messy divorce, emotionally screwed up, living in a cheap motel with no heat, having business problems. My ex had run up credit card bills without my knowledge at Sears, JC Penny's, and a dozen other places, to the tune of over $20,000, then dumped them all on me one day, saying "Here!".

Paid them all off, but my credit rating was in the minus numbers. Nobody would loan me a dime, so I learned to pay cash for everything.

Developed a habit that if I didn't have the cash, I wouldn't buy it. Thirty years later and that habit still works for me.

Again, a big CONGRATULATIONS to you and your wife. You both can be proud of what you have accomplished.

Ralph


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## JD3430

Hayjosh is a nice story, but Ralph yours is pretty damn amazing if you ask me!
I was close to debt free, but with children to put through college, even with 2 on partial athletic scholarships, it'll be a while longer for me. College will cost me 1/4 million + by the time it's all said and done.


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## Tim/South

It is a great accomplishment. I have been debt free most of my life, just the way I was raised.

Learning there is a difference between wants and needs is a self discipline all should learn.


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## rjmoses

JD3430 said:


> Hayjosh is a nice story, but Ralph yours is pretty damn amazing if you ask me!
> I was close to debt free, but with children to put through college, even with 2 on partial athletic scholarships, it'll be a while longer for me. College will cost me 1/4 million + by the time it's all said and done.


I left home when I was 19, got married and went to night school for five years paying out of my own pocket but getting reimbursed depending on my grade (A=100%, C=50%, D=0), all the while remodeling two houses and having three kids. Somehow, I wonder if I ever slept.

When my kids where getting ready to go to college, I made a conscious decision that they were adults and should work for and earn the right to go to school, i.e., they had to pay for it themselves. Three of my five did. One has masters in education; one has a degree in nuclear engineering; and one has a vocational education in refrigeration repair. One of the others has a degree in journalism but never uses it (that was paid for by student loans, grants and court-ordered crap.).

My belief is that they chose their careers and invested themselves into it by having to work for it. They all seem pretty satisfied with their choices. All three that earned their way through are pretty much debt free (one has a house mortgage).

I worry a lot about the debt that both parents and the government are piling on nowadays in the name of education.

As an American, I am proud of everyone who manages to get debt-free.

Ralph

(Somehow, "A Boy Named Sue" keeps going through my mind.)


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## RockmartGA

Being debt free is very liberating. You don't have this monthly payment hanging over your head like the Sword of Damocles. Of course, there is another train of thought that says you should make your assets work for you, meaning, leverage those assets to turn them into even more assets / income.

Debt is like fire - it can be a very useful tool or it can destroy you. It is all in how you manage it.


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## swmnhay

RockmartGA said:


> Of course, there is another train of thought that says you should make your assets work for you, meaning, leverage those assets to turn them into even more assets / income.
> 
> .


That is the downfull of some farming operations.Leverage your assets to much and some other factor changes and it can all come crashing down.Timing of leveraging is part of it and many unforseen circumstances can fall into play.Interest rates going up,poor crop prices and yeilds.Health issues,bills.Crazy health ins prices etc,etc can come up a guy didnt think would happen.I seen it happen in the 80's and I'm seeing it happen again now.It's all about timing leveraging in the 90's worked great but if leveraged last few yrs you maybe calling the auctioneer.


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## RockmartGA

rjmoses said:


> I worry a lot about the debt that both parents and the government are piling on nowadays in the name of education.


I agree. Too many people buy into the line about how a person with a college education makes $xxx more in their lifetime than a high school graduate and that EVERYONE needs to go to college. Truth is, only about 25% of the population have the aptitude to complete a college level curriculum. Additionally, they leave out that WHAT you get your degree in is more important that merely getting a degree. A person with a degree in Engineering should do very well (financially). That Gender Studies degree? Probably not worth the paper it was written on (from a financial perspective).

People also forget that colleges are operated as a business. The financial aide department will sign a student up with crippling debt to attend class for a degree that has very little, if any, financial value. Too many stories of students graduating $75,000 in debt and can only get a job paying $30,000. Also, one of my biggest complaints is that a full year or so of a typical 4 year degree program is spent taking classes that add no value - but the college requires you to take them, they staff them with graduate student "instructors" and they rake in the windfall.

Years (and years) ago, I was in awe of those thirty-something whizzes with their PHD's and fancy words. Years later, when I went back for my MBA, I realized how full of shit those "professors" were. They had no life experiences and knew nothing except what they read in a book.


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## Gearclash

`Concur that Wells Fargo is a scumbag outfit. Debt is good if used properly, ugly if it is not.


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## hog987

Grandma's advice was to never get a second mortgage or leverage your home or for farmers your home piece of land. She didnt recommend doing it with other assests either. But at least if things went sideways and you didn't leverage your home. You might lose a lot of stuff but you still got a place to live.


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## Hayjosh

Dave Ramsey, who we're an ardent fan of, justifies the two kinds of acceptable debt as an investment in yourself (college debt) and property/real estate (obvious reasons).

The interesting thing is I wasn't raised this way. My mom is pretty frugal because her dad was and a lot of my family say I have his genes that make me a penny pincher. I think I also have his genes that made me want to farm (hay). My dad and paternal grandpa were pretty much the opposite. All my other siblings tended to go the way of my paternal side while I stuck to the fiscal conservatism of the maternal side.

The lady at the bank handling my wire transfer kind of gave me this deer in the headlights look and said 'how did you do it, if you don't mind me asking?' She thought I must have a lot of experience or training in this type of thing. I told her I don't have a fancy, magic formula, it was just common sense. (Dave Ramsey says 'common sense aint so common...but it is marketable!').

Any extra money I had at the end of the month, I paid to my loan. We lived within (or below) our means. We were constantly disciplined, deliberate but not impulsive on big purchases, and did not insist on owning the nicest of everything (though I do refuse to buy junk hay equipment). Look at what your loan amount is--not your monthly payment--and if you can't pay it off in 1-2 years then it's too much. And finally, refuse to accept having a monthly payment for a car or house as the norm and something that's always going to be there. But to be fair, we are both blessed with our day jobs as well (and no kids) which is the single biggest contributor.

It blows mind when I saw a friend on an income of $30,000 buy a $40,000+ truck "because the monthly payment was only $X!"

I even lived in an apartment in a horse barn for two years during college. It saved me about $6000 because my room was the cost of working 15 hrs/week. Hay would come through a crack between the wall and ceiling, and it was small and not very nice. And there were horses right on the other side of my wall. And I lived at my work. There was a silver lining though...rolling out of bed 5 minutes before you need to be to work, or 15 minutes before you need to be to class (because I was right across the street), and oh man...it was very attractive to the ladies.


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## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> Dave Ramsey, who we're an ardent fan of, justifies the two kinds of acceptable debt as an investment in yourself (college debt) and property/real estate (obvious reasons).
> 
> The interesting thing is I wasn't raised this way. My mom is pretty frugal because her dad was and a lot of my family say I have his genes that make me a penny pincher. I think I also have his genes that made me want to farm (hay). My dad and paternal grandpa were pretty much the opposite. All my other siblings tended to go the way of my paternal side while I stuck to the fiscal conservatism of the maternal side.
> 
> The lady at the bank handling my wire transfer kind of gave me this deer in the headlights look and said 'how did you do it, if you don't mind me asking?' She thought I must have a lot of experience or training in this type of thing. I told her I don't have a fancy, magic formula, it was just common sense. (Dave Ramsey says 'common sense aint so common...but it is marketable!').
> 
> Any extra money I had at the end of the month, I paid to my loan. We lived within (or below) our means. We were constantly disciplined, deliberate but not impulsive on big purchases, and did not insist on owning the nicest of everything (though I do refuse to buy junk hay equipment). Look at what your loan amount is--not your monthly payment--and if you can't pay it off in 1-2 years then it's too much. And finally, refuse to accept having a monthly payment for a car or house as the norm and something that's always going to be there. But to be fair, we are both blessed with our day jobs as well *(and no kids)* which is the single biggest contributor.
> 
> It blows mind when I saw a friend on an income of $30,000 buy a $40,000+ truck "because the monthly payment was only $X!"
> 
> I even lived in an apartment in a horse barn for two years during college. It saved me about $6000 because my room was the cost of working 15 hrs/week. Hay would come through a crack between the wall and ceiling, and it was small and not very nice. And there were horses right on the other side of my wall. And I lived at my work. There was a silver lining though...rolling out of bed 5 minutes before you need to be to work, or 15 minutes before you need to be to class (because I was right across the street), and oh man...it was very attractive to the ladies.


 ..."and no kids"...

I'm sure someone has calculated the extra cost of having kids....I got to think each one probably costs 1/4 million to feed, clothe, school, insure, transport and pay wedding if its a female child.

I'd be minimally in debt or debt free with no kids. Mostly because of college tuition.

However, my children are the light of my life. They made my life complete and learned amazing things from raising them I never would have without them. I'm so proud of my kids and they are going to do great things. When I die, I will live on in them, as my mother and father told me when they passed away.

I also am anxious to be debt free (and envious of those who have become so), but if it takes longer with children, I'll wait.


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## Hayjosh

Kids are expensive, especially when it comes to college. Now I'd like to max out retirement contributions and start a college savings investment fund. We ARE foster parents and have been trying to adopt. But that's not the same financially because much of the kids' costs are covered by the state, and they pay us a daily rate for their care. The mental and emotional cost on the other hand....


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## haybaler101

I don’t know why people think kids are “entitled “ to a college education. I have a sophomore at Purdue and 2 more in high school headed that way and they all three have known for years that if they want to go, they pay for it, They have 3 options, scholarships, work and student loans. That is the way their mom and myself went to college. I graduated from Purdue in 1995 with BS and had a whopping $1500 in school loans and my parents never contributed a dime other than being poor on the FAFSA. I have seen way too many kids going to school on daddy’s dime that are just there for the party. Jake, my oldest, can pick them out really quick as well.


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## Farmerbrown2

Schooling after 12 th grade is great but I don’t think college is for everyon . All 4 of my kids are getting good grades in school but 2 of them definitely should go to some sort of trade school ,college will be a waste of their time.


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## Vol

My wife and I paid for ours sons college education. The oldest was heavily scholarshipped at a private college.....but still costly. The youngest went to a state university that was frugal about giving scholarships....but less expensive. I do not feel as if either owed us anything other than thank you and I love you......which they fulfilled. It is a gift from us to them for being trouble free, respectful, and knowing the value of sweat equity. They were pure joy in our lives growing up.....and now they are blessing our family with grandchildren. Life is joy if you let it be......just read the Book of Job when in doubt or feel troubled.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

I never felt any hesitation paying part of my kids college expenses. Never been in trouble and always honored us with excellent behavior, academic and athletic performance. The way I figure it, it only comes back to me that they're not in a pile of debt upon graduation, so they're less burdensome to me later. They never came to us with an attitude of entitled to full payment. We did it out of joy & love for our kids. 
The difference today is college has gone up far in excess to other costs of living. Its 10X as expensive as it was in the mid 80's. Can't say same for Real Estate, vehicles or food. 
Cant expect my kids to afford colleges for 4 years, even on 1/2 or more D-1 sports scholarships. We have them paying part of whats left and we pay part of whats left. We still have kids in high school, so a long way to go.


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## stack em up

I understand academic scholarships, but I can’t for the life of me understand why universities give out athletic scholarships. Do sports really earn the school that much money?


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## Hayjosh

stack em up said:


> I understand academic scholarships, but I can't for the life of me understand why universities give out athletic scholarships. Do sports really earn the school that much money?


YES. Especially for Div 1 schools, athletics are a cash cow and a huge promotion for the school. If you still don't believe me, look up the highest paid state employees for any state. In almost all occasions, they will be coaches or athletic directors. In Iowa, for instance, the TOP 5 highest paid state employees are football or basketball coaches, or an athletic director. There's billions of dollars in college athletics.


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## endrow

Our kids worked hard on the dairy farm from the time they were born they did not make enough to pay for college we made them loan money for college and we told them we would help with there loans . The first 2 years we pretty much made the payments but after that ,one was in nursing and the other a dietitian, they both made 5 year commitments on there first job to have there school loans paid by there first employer. We did not mind helping them out they worked hard for us . My son did not go to college he works on the family farm , Some would say he is my boss . My daughters have different type of lives they live locally they are both married to Doctors and will still help out on the farm when we are busy . My youngest daughter is 35 works hard as a Rn and still calls on her days off and says she will help with the milking . .


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## glasswrongsize

Sports.... panem et circenses <_<

Glad your hard work has paid off Josh. It's a rewarding feeling to be debt-free. It also is very liberating (to a point); I always reckoned I would buy a nicer truck and maybe nicer equipment with I paid off the house and ground. Turns out the opposite was true...I know I *CAN* run it til it drops and go to town and buy a new one if it breaks down at a bad time.


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## Hayjosh

Pretty funny thing. I logged into my mortgage account the day after paying it off. (I like to log in every day now just to see that "Pd in full".) I've never had to enter a captcha before but I had to this time. I think I must have hit a nerve?!


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## Hayjosh

glasswrongsize said:


> Sports.... panem et circenses <_<
> 
> Glad your hard work has paid off Josh. It's a rewarding feeling to be debt-free. It also is very liberating (to a point); I always reckoned I would buy a nicer truck and maybe nicer equipment with I paid off the house and ground. Turns out the opposite was true...I know I *CAN* run it til it drops and go to town and buy a new one if it breaks down at a bad time.


First thing I'm buying this spring is a 4 basket tedder (used of course )

Then maybe within the next few years I'll look at getting my grandpa's 4430 out here and a discbine. With two tractors and faster equipment I can pick up a few easy custom jobs close by that have been holding out for me.

One of them is the former owner of my house, ironically. They called me up one afternoon this summer during one of the last cutting days asking if I could come square bale up 10 acres for them because their custom operator's baler took a shat. So I hooked up and went over there (2 miles), baled it up in about an hour.

I don't think either of them were happy with their current arrangement. When I was getting ready to leave the operator asked me if I wanted the gig (I declined), and the property owners texted me the same night asking if I could do their baling as soon as I had availability. She said the back field I baled up looked so nice with no hay left on the ground, and their custom operator always left a lot of hay on the field and she'd have to go pick up the piles. That felt really good to hear. This was the first year I've made hay with full confidence by the way. Entirely self sufficient with no serious equipment issues or other major issues (except for my dad passing away in the middle of first cut). I had a really successful year, it was a lot of fun. I attribute about 90% of it to everything I've learned here.


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## swmnhay

stack em up said:


> I understand academic scholarships, but I can't for the life of me understand why universities give out athletic scholarships. Do sports really earn the school that much money?


A lot of egos need to be stroked is why.My team is better then yours.etc.etc.Look at wjhat they pay college coaches now days,totally insane.Multi million dollar stadiums also.

And I wonder how many go on to be Al Bundy's in later life.


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## Vol

Tennessee is getting ready to do a stadium interior remodel inside the bowels of the South end zone.....it is supposed to cost around $350 million.....and will be paid for by donors and athletic supporters. It's all about keeping up with the Joneses. Just unreal....but if you want to sign the top high school prospects you have to have the glitter. College football is less and less enjoyable as time goes on and soon will be as disheartening as the NFL. Nothing stays the same...."Nothing gold can stay".

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Vol said:


> Tennessee is getting ready to do a stadium interior remodel inside the bowels of the South end zone.....it is supposed to cost around $350 million.....and will be paid for by donors and athletic supporters. It's all about keeping up with the Joneses. Just unreal....but if you want to sign the top high school prospects you have to have the glitter. College football is less and less enjoyable as time goes on and soon will be as disheartening as the NFL. Nothing stays the same...."Nothing gold can stay".
> 
> Regards, Mike


holy crap $350 million.Now this spending crap is trickling down to the high school level.Add it to propert taxes.Raise local sales tax.Add taxes at lodging and resteraunts.

Made comment at a resteraunt I stop at maybe once a month in another county.It was pretty slow and made a comment about it to the waitress.She said ever since they added the sales tax for the new sports facility business dropped off.

Astro turfing high school football fields now,why?Because that town has one we need one.

Another reason you can't get kids to work now days they are to busy going to games and practice.


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## haybaler101

swmnhay said:


> holy crap $350 million.Now this spending crap is trickling down to the high school level.Add it to propert taxes.Raise local sales tax.Add taxes at lodging and resteraunts.
> Made comment at a resteraunt I stop at maybe once a month in another county.It was pretty slow and made a comment about it to the waitress.She said ever since they added the sales tax for the new sports facility business dropped off.
> Astro turfing high school football fields now,why?Because that town has one we need one.
> Another reason you can't get kids to work now days they are to busy going to games and practice.


Just heard a high school about 40 miles here was going to spend a cool million to put Astro turf on the field.


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## swmnhay

haybaler101 said:


> Just heard a high school about 40 miles here was going to spend a cool million to put Astro turf on the field.


Garretson,SD has one,town of 1200 people.SMH.Was at guys place 1/2 mile away and heard some noise,they were testing speakers.He said go look at that shit.People wanted it and now there property taxes went up and now complaining about that.Well daaa.He was thankfull his place was across the road from school district line which is also the state line.

They want to pave the parking lot for the base ball Fields here $300,000.What the hell is wrong with gravel thats there??


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## stack em up

Vol said:


> Tennessee is getting ready to do a stadium interior remodel inside the bowels of the South end zone.....it is supposed to cost around $350 million.....and will be paid for by donors and ATHLETIC SUPPORTERS.
> 
> Regards, Mike


An athletic supporter, wouldn't that be a jock strap? Lol


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## JD3430

The benefits of sports far outweigh the cost of the alternatives.
Gets a lot of at risk people organized into mentally and physically healthy lifestyles.

By the looks of the fat people I see walking around with a beer in one hand, a cigarette in the other and fast food boxes on the floors of their vehicles, I'd say using some taxpayer money on healthy lifestyles like ballfields is somewhat justified. 
You can't say a word to those folks. They violently scream at you "it's my life, I'll do what I want!!" Meanwhile we have to pay millions in taxpayer money to get them a triple bypasses, liver and lung transplants or diabetic supplies....NOOOOO can't build a healthy ballfield or running track. That costs too much taxpayer money, but Medicade for a 400 pound smokers surgery is fine because "it's MY life". 
I do agree that we also need to get our youth outside and either working physical JOBS or participating in healthy activity not sitting around in the house. This would be a way to reduce the need for migrant help. It's easy to give up on youth and hire a migrant, but it's better for our country to teach and employ our youth in these jobs. We need to work on this. I did my part with my kids.

Now I do not agree we need paved parking lots when stone will do, or artificial turf where grass will do. That's just keeping up with the Jones's.


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## r82230

stack em up said:


> An athletic supporter, wouldn't that be a jock strap? Lol


Reminds me of going to the local hardware store (the only place in town that carried sporting goods) as a kid. If you ask the wrong person for a Bike Suppporter, they would come out with a bicycle kick stand and not a jock strap. 

Larry


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## Tim/South

stack em up said:


> I understand academic scholarships, but I can't for the life of me understand why universities give out athletic scholarships. Do sports really earn the school that much money?


Athletics bring in big revenue to the university. A percentage of that revenue goes to academics.

I remember when Sabin was hired at Alabama. Football had generated @49 million the year before. After his second year football revenue alone was over 100 million. Last year football brought in $174.3 million. U of Texas brought in $215 million.

With a coach generating that much revenue it is easier to understand how the university justifies paying a coach a few million per year.

Some college sports lose money. Swim teams, tennis etc. all ride the back of college football. Very few of the female sports carry their own weight. Title 9 says you must have those sports.


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## JD3430

Bigger football programs built more than a few campus buildings with its football revenues. It was also said they pay the expenses of all the smaller sports that run in the red. 
My son was telling me only the top 30-40 football programs are in the black. Many D-1 football programs lose money. 
My sons college team has a budget surplus, but they are really frugal. Only 40 of their 58 player roster go to away games and donations are happily taken by the boosters club.


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## RockmartGA

Vol said:


> College football is less and less enjoyable as time goes on and soon will be as disheartening as the NFL.


Same here. I had season tickets to Atlanta Falcons back in the 1980s. Money ruined it. Egotistical millionaires who were more interested in dancing in the end zone than playing ball. The kneeling controversy was a moot point as I had quit watching NFL years ago.

College ball going down the same path. Too much money passing hands. A huge percentage of the players on the field do not deserve to be on a college campus without a mop and broom in hand. They have made a mockery of academics and the concept of STUDENT-athlete. A few years back, a running back (Danny Ware) from my hometown signed with University of Georgia. UGA sent him to play at Hargrove Military School for a year because his grades were not high enough to clear the low bar of college athletics. Next year, UGA made a big deal of him being a "true freshman" running back.

I think the minimum NFL salary is around $750,000. All a player needs to do is be good enough to get picked up by a team and play a few years. If he manages his money, he can be set for life. Unfortunately, most do not know how to manage money and they wind up broke (physically and financially).

It's a vicious cycle.


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## rjmoses

Somebody quoted "panem et



glasswrongsize said:


> Sports.... panem et circenses <_<


That is purty much the way of education and politics nowadays. Jane Byrne got elected mayor of Chicago by putting on the biggest fireworks displays ever at the time. Kept the masses entertained....uneducated, but entertained.

Ralph


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## Tim/South

JD3430 said:


> Many D-1 football programs lose money.


Very true. That is why a school like Vanderbilt stays in the SEC. To be able to stay afloat in athletics, they need their share of the SEC TV contract and also the bowl money. All the SEC teams going bowling share a percentage of the income with the other colleges in the conference.

I coached school sports for 31 years, coached a state championship one year. I know first hand of a player who could not read or write, barely speak understandable English. He went to a smaller 4 year college and played for the Oakland Raiders. Never once did I see him interviewed on TV, for good reason.

Something I do not fully understand is the online classes. I remember Johnny Football playing and taking all of his classes online. Guess they took his work that the classwork was his.

College athletic revenue will take a hit next year. President Trumps tax plan does not allow the current 80% write off for donations. Colleges are already complaining.


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## JD3430

Tim/South said:


> Very true. That is why a school like Vanderbilt stays in the SEC. To be able to stay afloat in athletics, they need their share of the SEC TV contract and also the bowl money. All the SEC teams going bowling share a percentage of the income with the other colleges in the conference.
> 
> I coached school sports for 31 years, coached a state championship one year. I know first hand of a player who could not read or write, barely speak understandable English. He went to a smaller 4 year college and played for the Oakland Raiders. Never once did I see him interviewed on TV, for good reason.
> 
> Something I do not fully understand is the online classes. I remember Johnny Football playing and taking all of his classes online. Guess they took his work that the classwork was his.
> 
> College athletic revenue will take a hit next year. President Trumps tax plan does not allow the current 80% write off for donations. Colleges are already complaining.


Yes, they are complaining!

I am getting ready for the first football player I coached to go pro. He's on the radar right now. Has a 4.0+ GPA at a money losing D-1 college football team. Probably the smartest kid on not only the team, but in the school when he was in high school.

I just got news hes on the "Draft Diamonds" list about a week ago.

2 of my room mates were on Penn States football team. They werent superstars, but they played. They were always going to class. I do know they had a somewhat regular tutor that came to our room during the season. The traveling to the games gets very difficult for them to keep up.

My boy has mandatory quiet, supervised study hall, but only 2 or 3 hours. The whole team has it. Your hours are assigned by your GPA. If grades fall, mandatory study hall hours increase. As grades rise, they decrease. Tutor is on call for help in season. I don't think he'll ever need it thankfully. Seems like a good plan to me.


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## swmnhay

Jeeze I thought college was for higher learning and academics.It's turned into semi professional sports and a bunch of liberal professors pushing their agenda.


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## swmnhay

Follow the money.Liberals want free college.Colleges pay polititions huge speaking fees.
Big tax deductible donations to colleges and little jimmy or Jane gets a little preferential treatment or accepted into that college.


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## Vol

swmnhay said:


> Jeeze I thought college was for higher learning and academics.


Nah.....not anymore. It's to learn how to be a craphead on social media, get tattooed, scream when you don't get your way and to urinate away other peoples money. Oh, and they do new drugs now.....I have forgotten what the term is that they use to describe the drugs.....it's a millennial thing. And the most important thing they learn to do is moan about not being given all the money that they want.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayjosh

Vol said:


> Nah.....not anymore. It's to learn how to be a craphead on social media, get tattooed, scream when you don't get your way and to urinate away other peoples money. Oh, and they do new drugs now.....I have forgotten what the term is that they use to describe the drugs.....it's a millennial thing. And the most important thing they learn to do is moan about not being given all the money that they want.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Who raised these kids?


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## somedevildawg

Hayjosh said:


> Who raised these kids?


Let's see......the unwed mother that had four kids by 22yrs old, by two different guys.....
Or the other side of the coin......two pieces of crap sperm donors that would rather go out with the boys and get tats and batter their body with drugs (while you and I pay the price tag) rather than man up and be a father figure.
Or, the affluent couple that put up a great public image but let their kids do whatever they want because they are privileged, they eventually will hang themselves if given enuf loose rope.
Or, the mother is on crack and on the streets, sperm donor is in prison and the grandparents (who are likely separated by death or other...) have to raise the kids with a generation chasm........
Plenty of other variable possibilities, but your point is well taken. So do you thnk you want to invite one to stay with you and see if you can reform them? I've had plenty of buddies think they could do that with crack head whores.....to this day I don't know one that worked out. Several wrecked there lives.......it starts early, the nurturing process....kids having kids is a recipe for a generational disaster, we are seeing some of the fruits today


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## JD3430

Why is having tattoos associated with being a bad person? 
My son and I have matching crucifixes with biblical verses and another with a family coat of arms on both of us. It was a bonding and memorable experience. 
I've met 100's of very fine, responsible, successful people with tattoos men and women, too.

Also getting married young, or "kids having kids" isn't always a recipe for disaster. Met a lot of very driven, mature, responsible 18 yr olds and a lot of very unstable, violent 50-60yr olds, too.
It's not really so much about having tattoos or how old you are when you have kids as it is what's in your heart, living by the verses of the Bible and doing the right thing. 
I'd rather see a 18-24yr old get married and settle down than be out getting drunk in bars with multiple partners. 
We need more marriage and commitment and less single, unsettled people. 
My .02c.


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## Vol

Hayjosh said:


> Who raised these kids?


Probably a computer.

Regards, Mike


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## Tim/South

Vol said:


> Probably a computer.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Made me chuckle.

My son really got into Xbox for a short while. Reality slapped him upside the head. Games do not pay the bills unless you are the one inventing them.


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## Aaroncboo

Hey now I play games most every night. I don't watch television. As far as I'm concerned Im old enough know the violence is fake. It's what's the television that's scary and depressing. I'm not so convinced that games are to blame for violence as much as social media and the news. They seem to thrive on it... You know the old phrase they say. GOOD EVENING,HERES A HOUR LONG LIST OF REASONS WHY IT'S NOT. Lol


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## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> Why is having tattoos associated with being a bad person?
> My son and I have matching crucifixes with biblical verses and another with a family coat of arms on both of us. It was a bonding and memorable experience.
> I've met 100's of very fine, responsible, successful people with tattoos men and women, too.
> 
> Also getting married young, or "kids having kids" isn't always a recipe for disaster. Met a lot of very driven, mature, responsible 18 yr olds and a lot of very unstable, violent 50-60yr olds, too.
> It's not really so much about having tattoos or how old you are when you have kids as it is what's in your heart, living by the verses of the Bible and doing the right thing.
> I'd rather see a 18-24yr old get married and settle down than be out getting drunk in bars with multiple partners.
> We need more marriage and commitment and less single, unsettled people.
> My .02c.


First, I didn't say anyone with tattoos is a "bad person" you did......I really don't give a damn, I have a son with one (fraternity) I have brothers that adorned themselves with them (Navy, Marines) BUT, if you dropped out of school and ain't got a job and have already donated sperm for another generation and you're relying on me to put groceries on the table, I have a problem with your cash money going to pay for tattoos, or beer, or tobacco, strip clubs, whatever the extracurricular money expenditures one may have. 
"Kids having kids" is completely different than an 18 yr old getting married.....I don't have a problem with that either, for that matter, I wouldn't have a problem with a 16-17yr old getting married.....age is just a number. I got married at 18, my mother was married at 15.....the problem is kids are coddled today, given everything with no real expectations of what it takes to succeed in life, this seems to cross all socio-economic classes. "I want my kids to have more than I had" mentality run amuck.....i hope the mellinials don't adopt the same method, it's a poor way to raise kids in my opin......
I remember reading about a study once years ago, it basically was telling parents that we must'nt say "No" to our children, replace it with a more "positive" spin......what a bunch of bullshit, sometimes the best thing you can say is no.....like No, we don't have the money, or No, you can't touch that burner that's glowing red, or No, you can't have that brand new pickup, despite what the other kids have......we want to "reinforce" how special they are, how they could possibly change the world someday.....they can change the world tho, by being responsible parents, nurturing their kids and living within their means......how many tats they have is irrelevant to me, as long as I didn't pay for them defacto......


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## Farmerbrown2

Here is the problem I have with people who have tattoos. When I’m standing in line at the grocery store to buy food to make my lunches for work that week. And the guy in front of me is showing off his new tat that he just spent $250 bucks on. Then gets out his Access card to pay for food I can’t afford. That pisses me off and then I guess I start stereotyping young punks guilty I am,but seems a lot of people on the system have better stuff than I do. There is a grocery store in my small town where I bet at least 50% of there sales are bought with some sort of public assistance, if you open your eyes and see the crap that goes on there it will make you wonder when the human race will end.


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## Hayjosh

somedevildawg said:


> So do you thnk you want to invite one to stay with you and see if you can reform them?


I'm a foster parent, so that's pretty much exactly what happens.

But my point is if you think there's a problem with a generation, then I'd be looking at the habits and parenting of the previous generation, which are usually the same people doing the complaining.

Mike's point about 'a computer' raising these kids is valid, I think that's how they were parented. More passive parenting and less active parenting.

I enjoy video games myself (and there's a great one called Farming Simulator that's good for the winter months) and it's been a great tool that's allowed me to connect with my foster kids. That being said, for as long as they're in my care they also have certain chores and responsibilities, help me with my projects, and I try to teach them life skills like carpentry (or whatever it is I'm working on at the time). I can't guarantee I'll be successful but I'm trying to fight the good fight.


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## Aaroncboo

My wife always laughs at me for baling hay or feeding the animals outside and coming in the house for the night and sitting and playing that farm simulator... I tell her it's the easiest way to get new equipment... Lol


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## somedevildawg

I appreciate you being a foster parent, but that's not purty much exactly what happens......I have adopted children as well. I "adopted" a girl at the critical age of 13 yrs old. Mother is a crack head, sperm donor is a big pile of shit......both live on gubmit assistance and milk their parents out of every thing they get from their hard earned retirement. When she moved in with us, her grandparents (that's who they all live with) freely let her go, never so much as a whimper from them because they knew what I knew about the dynamics in that house. But, she wasn't a typical teen....because of her situation and the fact that she had a very young brother and sis (twins) she felt she needed to be the parent to her younger siblings as both have developmental problems. She has done real well with us, no real issues and is a semester away from completing her college education. If she had already "turned the corner" and become "vested" in today's stereotype life I don't think we would have been successful in saving this child. Btw, her sperm donor is covered with skulls and bones and her mother has the kids names tattooed on her......can't raise them but have a tattoo with their name, that's some ironic crap ain't it?
And to think, I helped pay for it......sob
And the mother should have already had her tubes tied, (probably when she didn't have a job or husband and was running tricks and getting empregnated) by the government, she has since had another child, this one is grey 
I'm sure my "adopted" daughter will take the kids as soon as she lands a job after college, we've already talked about that possibility. 
Bottom line is this, we managed to save this girl but we got there early and she was responsible because she felt compelled to take care of her much younger siblings.....some of the ones I'm talking about wouldn't make it a day in my house and I would probably be doing 25 to life as well.....


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## JD3430

Hayjosh said:


> I'm a foster parent, so that's pretty much exactly what happens.
> 
> But my point is if you think there's a problem with a generation, then I'd be looking at the habits and parenting of the previous generation, which are usually the same people doing the complaining.


Exactly right. And what you are doing is VERY commendable.

Many of us ARE raising kids correctly, volunteering to help like you as a foster parent, myself as a coach, or a 4H or scout leader are out doing something about it.

Meanwhile, I read/see far too many whining about it, yet they do nothing to help set terrible examples themselves.

Complaining, rather than acting in a positive manner towards people who are going down the wrong path isn't the way to solve anything, either.

Look at the politicians we elect! Look at the policies they set for us. No work and you get handouts. Legalizing recreational drugs... WHY?

Horrible violence in movies and we wonder why kids are so violent. Yet we buy the movie tickets and then they brag about the 100 miilion taken in at the box office.

50%+ divorce rate and we wonder why so much divorce and marital cheating and we have I-phones with a "porn theatre" in every phone! Divorce too easy an option and no longer used for the truly large infractions. But look at what kinds of temptation we as adults create for one another?

Non stop bullying (and now cyber bullying) in school. Heck there's even an "app" where bullying text disappears so the bully gets away with it. Then we wonder why kids shoot up schools. Bullying all over the internet.....some is very subtle, too. Adults do it to each other, then so will the kids.

Complaining about tax increases from kids getting a new ballfield? OK, lets take away the ballfields and let them do whatever they want. See what that gets ya. Not every kid wants to milk cows or cut hay (BTW-nothing wrong with anyone who wants to do that, either). But WE are the ones paying the 10 million dollar/yr athletes salaries by filling stadiums, so WE are the ones enticing them to play ball, right?

America is a very diverse country, yet we show little acceptance of others unless we do things THEIR way. Then we wonder why we have groups violently clashing in the streets.

Not every kid wants to work right out of high school. Sorry, that's just the way it is. We need MORE constructive, healthy outlets for kids, but with that, we need more volunteers to help show kids the way. I know its a big time sacrifice. I do it. I think it enriches your life, too. Those who give their time be it offering jobs, coach, volunteer teach, foster parent, scouts, you make a BIG difference. VOTING makes a big difference, too.

The answers are right in front of us, but many chose complaining over ACTION.


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## CowboyRam

JD3430 said:


> Exactly right. And what you are doing is VERY commendable.
> 
> Many of us ARE raising kids correctly, volunteering to help like you as a foster parent, myself as a coach, or a 4H or scout leader are out doing something about it.
> 
> Meanwhile, I read/see far too many whining about it, yet they do nothing to help set terrible examples themselves.
> 
> Complaining, rather than acting in a positive manner towards people who are going down the wrong path isn't the way to solve anything, either.
> 
> Look at the politicians we elect! Look at the policies they set for us. No work and you get handouts. Legalizing recreational drugs... WHY?
> 
> Horrible violence in movies and we wonder why kids are so violent. Yet we buy the movie tickets and then they brag about the 100 miilion taken in at the box office.
> 
> 50%+ divorce rate and we wonder why so much divorce and marital cheating and we have I-phones with a "porn theatre" in every phone! Divorce too easy an option and no longer used for the truly large infractions. But look at what kinds of temptation we as adults create for one another?
> 
> Non stop bullying (and now cyber bullying) in school. Heck there's even an "app" where bullying text disappears so the bully gets away with it. Then we wonder why kids shoot up schools. Bullying all over the internet.....some is very subtle, too. Adults do it to each other, then so will the kids.
> 
> Complaining about tax increases from kids getting a new ballfield? OK, lets take away the ballfields and let them do whatever they want. See what that gets ya. Not every kid wants to milk cows or cut hay (BTW-nothing wrong with anyone who wants to do that, either). But WE are the ones paying the 10 million dollar/yr athletes salaries by filling stadiums, so WE are the ones enticing them to play ball, right?
> 
> America is a very diverse country, yet we show little acceptance of others unless we do things THEIR way. Then we wonder why we have groups violently clashing in the streets.
> 
> Not every kid wants to work right out of high school. Sorry, that's just the way it is. We need MORE constructive, healthy outlets for kids, but with that, we need more volunteers to help show kids the way. I know its a big time sacrifice. I do it. I think it enriches your life, too. Those who give their time be it offering jobs, coach, volunteer teach, foster parent, scouts, you make a BIG difference. VOTING makes a big difference, too.
> 
> The answers are right in front of us, but many chose complaining over ACTION.


The problem is that we have taken God out of everything. Kids nowadays are not learning any morals. We also have high schools and colleges telling our children to go get a college degree so they don't have to work. They are setting these kids up to fail right of the bat. Very few in our society have the opportunity learn how to work like those that have families involved in farming and ranching. Another problem is most kids get home from school and there is no adult home to supervise them. Unfortunately both parents have to work in order make the ends meet, and even then they are to involved in themselves when they are home with their kids.


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## JD3430

CowboyRam said:


> The problem is that we have taken God out of everything. Kids nowadays are not learning any morals. We also have high schools and colleges telling our children to go get a college degree so they don't have to work. They are setting these kids up to fail right of the bat. Very few in our society have the opportunity learn how to work like those that have families involved in farming and ranching. * Another problem is most kids get home from school and there is no adult home to supervise them. *Unfortunately both parents have to work in order make the ends meet, and even then they are to involved in themselves when they are home with their kids.


Very True.

Some kids work during college. Mine do.

Another one of the reasons its in the taxpayers interest to build the ballfield, volunteer to coach, organize marching band, hire a teenage American kid and teach him to work instead of an illegal, etc.

They do need after school activities.


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## Hayjosh

JD3430 said:


> Very True.
> 
> Some kids work during college. Mine do.
> 
> Another one of the reasons its in the taxpayers interest to build the ballfield, volunteer to coach, organize marching band, hire a teenage American kid and teach him to work instead of an illegal, etc.
> 
> They do need after school activities.


School extracurricular activities are necessary for all the reasons you've mentioned. However, it's difficult to hire teenagers because they're already in activities or they depend on their parents to chauffer them. My hay help is very good, but logistics are complicated.


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## JD3430

Folks complain "kids wont work anymore". In many cases that is true.

Sometimes I wonder if some employers don't want to take the time and go through the trouble to hire them and show them the value of hard work? It IS harder to teach a teen to stack hay in a barn than a starving illegal.

But cant also complain youth are lazy, dont work, dont want to work, worthless, etc.

Not in all cases, but in many maybe its worth our time to refocus on our own kids for the sake of the future of our country?

I see a lot of news media focused on immigration/border issues. Would they be reduced if we pinned our ears back and went through the extra trouble to hire our own young, teach them the value of hard work again and maybe give the future of our country a little extra security?


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## stack em up

If college sports are such big business, wouldnt it be fair to say it would behoove the college to tamper with athletes grades to make sure Big Bubba is on the field on Sunday?

Ja, sounds like a great way to learn ethics and morals....


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## haybaler101

stack em up said:


> If college sports are such big business, wouldnt it be fair to say it would behoove the college to tamper with athletes grades to make sure Big Bubba is on the field on Sunday?
> 
> Ja, sounds like a great way to learn ethics and morals....


You have never heard of Kentucky basketball, Ohio State football?


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## somedevildawg

Hey, don't leave out Florida State......


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## somedevildawg

Common business Stack......but heck, I've kinda come to conclude that it would be best to just pay the athletes. It has become such big business that it too has been somewhat corrupted to the core. But it's my last bastion in the fight to keep football in my life.....and high school, but that too is being corrupted more and more every year.


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## JD3430

Where I saw and continue to see corruption in HS football is not direct money of any kind. Where I see corruption are catholic schools playing public schools. The private schools can recruit anyone they want to play for their team and there's no shortage of talented players who's parents will send these kids to board at their schools or drive if close enough to play on them.

Last year, we played down to the semi final game in the PA state championship. It was our team and only 3 other teams left in the state. Our public school played one of these catholic schools. They had a regional program drawing players from 4 states and 12 districts in PA.

We played them tough, but our team which represents only small parts of 2 counties lost. The Catholic school went on to win the state 5A title the next weekend.

We had a few days to scout them. They had 7 division 1 prospects We had 2 FCS D-1 prospects. They had 110 player roster. We had 42.

Big debate raging in the state about public schools only playing each other. The private and catholic schools can also play each other, but the ones who recruit outside their school district should not play each other in playoff games.

Another form of corruption I see is where theres 2 public school teams bordering each other on geographic lines. One team is good and the other team stinks. A player with talent living in the district that stinks conveniently shows up at a new address over in the school district thats really good.

Never saw one recruiting impropriety in my life of coaching 2 HS sports. Had many college coaches call me and visit me re players on my teams. Never detected anything shady.


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## JD3430

I have heard of kids on other teams not being punished for skipping class or other infractions of school policy, but not at our school.

I do recall one of my players telling me another player was not disciplined when he was found walking the halls without a pass during classes, that's the only thing I remember in many years.

I did have one player on my lacrosse team disciplined for fighting with an opposing player in my 1st game as a head coach!! He got tossed from the game. Opposing fans going crazy in the stands getting loud with each other. And the PIAA states any player who is thrown out of a game must also sit out the very next game, too.

The refs and the PIAA take no crap and give no one any "passes" that I've ever seen.


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## weatherman

Congrats HayJosh! Sometimes I'm not sure if being debt free is a better feeling or kid free. With 5 kids on their own with no returns and not looking for handouts might be a close second to being debt free.


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## somedevildawg

Right about that weatherman.....I ain't there yet.


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## Palmettokat

I know this varies by area but in my area many in the construction industry make more than the college grades who's only job they can find are part time retail jobs. Not throwing off on college education, has served my girls well. But in my area I suspect your trained HAVA and diesel mechanic and welder make on average more than the average college grad. One reason is demand for those tech guys is increasing and as in many professions they are retiring quicker than news ones are entering. Then in my industry (insurance) and my wife's (Hospital Laboratory Tech) same there. In my wife's profession there are both TEC and full college education options and yes the full college education can open up administration level job not to the TEC person....due to Federal Regulations as in many other industries. DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF IN FEW YEARS COLLEGE DEGREE REQUIRED IN CHEMISTRY FOR AGRICULTURE (chemical) USE. May only have specialist or consulates to approve the planned treatment but I do expect to see that as possible court settlements along with liberal law makers.

On the cost of Higher Education, think if you will go back and follow the changes in the loan program by the Federal Government and think there was some additional changes in those laws but with those changes the cost of the college education really began to jump. That was widely reported for a time but seems the fake media found it was not profitable to do so.


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## Vol

I think that probably one of the largest reasons for the sudden and recent rapid escalation of college tuition is the on campus new building program that many many institutions have implemented. My area state university has had an incredible expansion of new facilities constructed in the last 10-15 years....and the expansion has not stopped.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay

Vol said:


> I think that probably one of the largest reasons for the sudden and recent rapid escalation of college tuition is the on campus new building program that many many institutions have implemented. My area state university has had an incredible expansion of new facilities constructed in the last 10-15 years....and the expansion has not stopped.
> 
> Regards, Mike


How much of the new buildings are needed and how much is to just keep up with the Jones's?Same thing in public schools each new building is a little fancier then the last.


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## slowzuki

I've got university education, engineering degree, that except for the first year I had to pay for myself. If I had gone to technical college I could have had government support for tuition, been done in two years and had a higher starting salary. If I had taken a trade I would have had an even higher starting salary ( thanks unions ).

What the engineering degree got me was flexibly to work in a wide range of work. On the flip side unless you are entrepreneurial or in a very small company, you won't get nearly the hands on time of the techs or trades. Thank goodness for farming to exercise that need.


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## CowboyRam

swmnhay said:


> How much of the new buildings are needed and how much is to just keep up with the Jones's?Same thing in public schools each new building is a little fancier then the last.


That is because we have architects designing monuments to themselves. When I was teaching construction at the college these architects would hype up the new buildings they designed at the other colleges, and of course those people on the college boards would eat up that dog and pony show.


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## Vol

swmnhay said:


> How much of the new buildings are needed and how much is to just keep up with the Jones's?Same thing in public schools each new building is a little fancier then the last.


Pretty sure there was a lot of Jonesing......it seems as if it didn't matter the cost because they could justify it somehow. Of course, I would rather they pay for these "memorials" through tuition increases and not raise taxes.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

i tell ya' my daughter is just graduating UGA after three years   and will be entering graduate school at the same institution. I'm not so sure she's getting an education or an indoctrination . I've had one hell of a time with her as of late......she is going into pharmacy but I'm purty sure she shoulda been in Law school cause she can certainly argue with a fence post......the question was posed to her by myself, "why do you think the "red and black" (UGA newspaper) endorsed Nancy Abrams for Gov......"

Holy shit, to her credit she simply said she didn't think the school newspaper ought to endorse anyone.....to which I concur. But I told her to, like most things in life, all she had to do was "follow the money". Free education means a single payer for the "institutes of higher learning" and full enrollment and a virtual windfall for all.....from that single comment, we dissolved into....a) gun control (she's leaning/arguing stricter    ) b) white male privilege  holy shit  (at this point I just about grabbed my belt) c) sexism.....at this point I decided I better shut up before the conversation turned to queers and he/she's.......
It's like you have to deprogram them when the come home.......I'm not sure what we are paying for, but then again....she's on full scholorship so the state is paying for it, so I'm not sure what I should expect??
Never had it this bad with my boys.......

Hold that thought, I have to field some more questions about "diversity"......it might be a looooong Thanksgiving


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## JD3430

Happy to say, Mine actually comes home even more conservative.
Must be a Catholic school thing.... lol ????
Had conservative author/speaker George Nash on their campus giving a speech. Said students liked & cheered him.
Also it's a "pro life" campus.
Prayer before and after each practice & game. We like that.


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## stack em up

I feel bad for ya Dawg, sounds like you have your hands full. I dare say the apple might not fall far from the tree as far as being able to argue with a fence post?

My niece who is going to U of M St Paul campus, and my nephew, who is attending SDSU Brookings, we're home for thanksgiving. They and I started talking about the state of colleges in general. My niece got a full ride scholarship to either Yale or Harvard, her choice, decided neither were a good fit for her, as their focus is solely on maintaining their image, not actually educating youth. She was astounded at the number of kids going there just because their daddy/mommy did or because someone bought their way in. If you are not "one of them" you're basically shunned. Found that the U is a much better fit for someone from a farming family going into agriculture genetics. Sports at the U are big business, and humorously, she said it's the parents that make a far bigger deal about it than the kids. Basically a bunch of middle aged Al Bundys who need their ego stroked from something they did 30 years ago.

Nephew said SDSU focuses more on education. Sports are fourth or fiddle there. School would much rather spend dollars on agriculture research and experimentation on something that will benefit society. They do have sports programs but apparently they suck?

My best friends sister wheat to Harvard medical school for anesthesiology. Hated it. Learned that saying you're from a small farming town in ___________ ( fill in east coast state of your choosing) bodes far better for you than saying you're from a small farming community in the Midwest. That ain't right.


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## RockmartGA

weatherman said:


> Congrats HayJosh! Sometimes I'm not sure if being debt free is a better feeling or kid free. With 5 kids on their own with no returns and not looking for handouts might be a close second to being debt free.


I think you may be right. It is a good feeling when your kids become self sufficient and move off the "parental payroll".


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## RockmartGA

somedevildawg said:


> I'm not so sure she's getting an education or an indoctrination .


Hate to hear that about UGA. I thought we (GA) had escaped most of the politically correct BS that seems to have taken over much of academia nowadays.

The HOPE Scholarship, while very beneficial to Georgia students, also had some unintended consequences. Biggest issue with these types of programs (and I'm including Medicare/Medicaid, welfare, etc) is that it separates the recipient of the service from the payment for the service. For example, if you only have to pay $5 for that prescription, you really don't care that the insurance is picking up the remainder of a $1000 tab. If you look at the Out of State Tuition (which approximates the true, unsubsidized cost) for UGA over a period of time, the tuition increased at a rate 4-5 times the rate of inflation. Basically, they knew most students weren't paying for it so they could raise tuition without repercussions.

As with all things, you soon run out of other peoples money and they almost broke the HOPE Scholarship. It is now more restrictive and pays for less.


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## endrow

Mixed emotions here on sports although I've never had much interest in them. Both of my daughters wanted to do Sports in high school they tried everything year after year they could never make it team there was never really a place for them they didn't excel in sports. The coaches would tell him try this or try that they try it same thing year after year. They both went on to college got several degrees in their field and are successful......... Sports never did them any good and it kind of reminds me of my high school days and our Junior and Senior year the football team or Regional Champs tons and tons of recognition for just a small group of students . I had a great aunt wrote a note to the school administration and she said she feels there are many other students that had accomplishments and should be recognized as well, the administration wrote her a letter back and said they feel she is correct that is so important but they never recognized anybody else......... before we graduated from high school we elected class officers and of course they favored those excelled in football the most. At our 10th year class we we reelected class advisors and officers because we want to see the focus of the alumni events on something other than Sports.. at that point many more people started to participate in reunions and events.. I know there are reasons that school sports are important. I am not a hundred percent against them. I'm just saying they shut down the entire School for a pep rally Friday at noon escort to kid around town with a fire engine. Students with major academic achievements never really heard much


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## JD3430

endrow said:


> Mixed emotions here on sports although I've never had much interest in them. Both of my daughters wanted to do Sports in high school they tried everything year after year they could never make it team there was never really a place for them they didn't excel in sports. The coaches would tell him try this or try that they try it same thing year after year. They both went on to college got several degrees in their field and are successful......... Sports never did them any good and it kind of reminds me of my high school days and our Junior and Senior year the football team or Regional Champs tons and tons of recognition for just a small group of students . I had a great aunt wrote a note to the school administration and she said she feels there are many other students that had accomplishments and should be recognized as well, the administration wrote her a letter back and said they feel she is correct that is so important but they never recognized anybody else......... before we graduated from high school we elected class officers and of course they favored those excelled in football the most. At our 10th year class we we reelected class advisors and officers because we want to see the focus of the alumni events on something other than Sports.. at that point many more people started to participate in reunions and events.. I know there are reasons that school sports are important. I am not a hundred percent against them. I'm just saying they shut down the entire School for a pep rally Friday at noon escort to kid around town with a fire engine. Students with major academic achievements never really heard much


Yes, that happens. It happened during my playing days, too.
Things have really changed (at least in our school). We won the toughest 5A district in PA last year and played until there were only 4 teams left playing football in the state, but after a great run, it was over and nobody made a big deal. When we won our league and district, the local fire company escorted team busses from the highway exit to the school and about 500 people gathered to greet us. I thought it was good, clean fun and the boys were humble about it. It brought excitement and pride to the community, too. 
The super strong academic kids at our HS get college academic scholarships, which are if not equal to, more lucrative than athletic scholarships. I didnt realize that many colleges offer "stacking" which is for smart/athletic kids. They will give you money from the academic dept AND the athletic dept. Some schools do not have this and the athletic & academic depts "compete" over a smart/athletic student. The student must pick which one they want to receive money from. Of course 99% take the one that gives the most $$.
Its sad that some folks view college athletes the way they do. They look at Georgia or Ohio State football and assume they're all like that. Such un-necessary pessimism. The kids have college teammates come over during break and some are delightful, smart young people that give me a lot of hope for our future. Whats really heartwarming is to get to know an intelligent and athletic person who is humble and grounded. There are many athletes on college sports teams who simply go to class, play their sport to the best of their ability, stay out of trouble get their degree and receive ZERO money from their college. Many division 1 athletes are NOT on any form of scholarship in the lesser known sports. That to me is pretty impressive, because they are carrying the same 15 credit course load, but working out an hour in the morning and practicing 5x per week for 2-3 hours each evening. Leaves a lot less time to study. However, statistics show college athletes have higher rates of graduation than their non-athlete fellow students!
Back in my college days, on Friday nights, the study halls and quiet places were filled with athletes, hardworking kids and smart kids, while the fraternities and bars were filled with the party kids getting drunk. It's rare to find a college athlete who can go to class, play a sport and get drunk multiple nights per week and graduate like an average student could because they have so much more spare time. Of course there are exceptions like high profile football players and they get all the news media coverage. What gets lost in all the high profile D-1 football/basketball hype is for every 1 of those athletes, there's 100 track & field, field hockey, lacrosse, swimming, softball, water polo, etc athletes who get zero-a little money or no special treatment and have 30 hours of training the average college kid doesn't. 
One former football player from the team on which I coached is now playing football at the United States Naval Academy and studying engineering. I don't know how he does it.


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## somedevildawg

endrow said:


> Mixed emotions here on sports although I've never had much interest in them. Both of my daughters wanted to do Sports in high school they tried everything year after year they could never make it team there was never really a place for them they didn't excel in sports. The coaches would tell him try this or try that they try it same thing year after year. They both went on to college got several degrees in their field and are successful......... Sports never did them any good and it kind of reminds me of my high school days and our Junior and Senior year the football team or Regional Champs tons and tons of recognition for just a small group of students . I had a great aunt wrote a note to the school administration and she said she feels there are many other students that had accomplishments and should be recognized as well, the administration wrote her a letter back and said they feel she is correct that is so important but they never recognized anybody else......... before we graduated from high school we elected class officers and of course they favored those excelled in football the most. At our 10th year class we we reelected class advisors and officers because we want to see the focus of the alumni events on something other than Sports.. at that point many more people started to participate in reunions and events.. I know there are reasons that school sports are important. I am not a hundred percent against them. I'm just saying they shut down the entire School for a pep rally Friday at noon escort to kid around town with a fire engine. Students with major academic achievements never really heard much


Unfortunately you're right endrow, with the exception of salutatorian and valedictorian at one's HS, most just kinda move on thru the HS experience relatively clean. It's the ones that need their ego pumped with pep rallies and such that garner the attention. (Ironically, a lot of us never really liked the pep rallies besides for the fact that we got out of a couple of classes) But, like most all things in life, you just have to follow the money......

Competition amongst competitors is a good thing to a certain point......competition against one's self is to succeed.


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## stack em up

Hayjosh said:


> With the stroke of a single key, the wire payment was sent to pay off the balance of our mortgage. We took it out just under 7 years ago. Wells Fargo just lost out on $100,000 of interest from me, which they really could have used for paying off their $2B in fines because they're a dirtbag company.
> 
> That aside, I'm a free man today. Beholden to nobody, I 'own' everything I own. Been working at this a long time, and my wife and I have been working very hard at it. I was driving home tonight and I thought 'I'm 37 and I own my house and have no debt,' and it was difficult to grasp.


Congrats OP


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## PaMike

Every time I get out of debt I buy another piece of real estate. I guess thats good right...


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## RuttedField

This is so hard for Katie, because she is a banker.

You would have to know Katie personally, but she is very easy-going and puts everyone at ease. Her bank has about 50,000 employees and she has always been in the top ten on customer service, BUT often misses her incentives because she is pushed really hard to "sell" credit cards.

Katie and I have always tried to be as debt-free as possible, and it has really showed in trying to fight cancer these last two years. Its been a struggle, but could not imagine it doing it with heavy debt. But yet she is expected to push high credit limits which she really won't do because she can see peoples financial health and know it is not what is best for them.


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## haybaler101

I came into farming full time in the early 90’s in a family dairy farm that was highly leveraged after the eighties. I have known debt all my life and will probably retire from farming or die with debt. I look at as having investors. I will work toward less debt if my 3 kids do not join me in the farming operation, but as it stands now, both boys (17 and 20 years old) plan to come in full time after college so that means several million dollars more for turkey barns and also plans to add some land base as well. Debt doesn’t scare me as long as I own a larger percentage than the bank and the payments cash flow.


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## Vol

haybaler101 said:


> Debt doesn't scare me as long as I own a larger percentage than the bank and the payments cash flow.


And that you stay healthy.

Regards, Mike


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## haybaler101

Vol said:


> And that you stay healthy.
> 
> Regards, Mike


That is why net worth is important, if health fails you can get out.


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## RuttedField

haybaler101 said:


> That is why net worth is important, if health fails you can get out.


Mmmmmm...maybe. No one knows this issue more than I do.

There is a lot of truth to what you say, as I have been able to sell a lot of resources to stay solvent, BUT that would not be the case if I had a high debt load.

For me, it has come from selling the equipment, a portion of my woodlot, my livestock, and now a second home (I have 3). But if I had owed money on any of that, I would not have been able to make as much money on their sales.

Net worth is a poor thing to bank upon, because the value is so fickle. Here we used to have a thriving poultry industry, but when the owners children did not take over the business, it left hundreds of farms without a market. You could not give a chicken farm away. And currently it is the same way with our forests, there are only 6 paper mills left in the state! Woodlots are worth 1/3 less then what they were 4 years ago...

In any small business classes I have taken, they stress *cash flow* being more important then anything else. A person can have gobs of long-term or intermediate assets, but if funds are needed now, and assets can not be liquidated fast enough, net worth means little. Sure a person can weather the financial storm if they have short-term assets (big savings account), but how is that going to logistically happen if they have big monthly payments to make?


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