# Looking for hobby...how about Alfalfa hay



## wabn8c

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to hay talk and have enjoyed reading many posts. I grew up on a farm working for my dad here in west Tennessee...I really enjoy working around agriculture. However, my father got out of farming several years ago and now I am in education. I really want to be involved in it somehow, but we rent our land to a local farmer.

We have about 7 acres on our farm that I could potentially grow hay on. It's rolling ground that's right next to the metal pole barn. I'm thinking that doing some alfalfa hay would be a doable hobby for me to get my "ag fix." I already own a John Deere 5420 tractor that I use for bush hogging. I assume I could get away with just buying a disc mower and a square baler...maybe a tedder?

Does this sound like a worthwhile venture? Being that I have weekends, summers, and several holidays, my schedule could probably handle a hay hobby. How much could I expect to yield/make per acre? Would selling my hay via Craigslist be my best option?

Would love to hear advice from some seasoned veterans. We don't have an abundance of horses in the area, but there isn't much alfalfa hay available in the area either...most people roll mixed grass hay for cows in this area. All "good" land is in row crop.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts...


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## FarmerCline

If you enjoy agriculture growing a few acres of hay as a hobby would probably be doable. Alfalfa isn't the easiest crop to manage compared to grass type hays......more difficult to dry down, bale with leaves intact, and the bugs like to eat it.....if you are willing to deal with these things it can be done. Just starting out orchard grass may be a better choice as it is much more forgiving to bale and overall easier to manage.

As far as equipment goes I would suggest an older sickle type haybine rather than a disc mower......especially if you decide to go for the alfalfa as you will need it to be crimped to get it to dry and alfalfa is easy to cut with a sickle. Even for orchard grass I would lean towards a haybine because the crimping though not essential will help 1st cut dry quicker and though grass can be tougher to cut with a sickle if you have good knives and guards and go a little slower it do fine......the only advantage a disc mower would have is you could cut faster but for 7 acres that really isn't a big deal. You will need some type of hay rake to rake the hay into windrows before baling. A square baler would be good. A tedder though not essential can be a big help in quicker dry down.......more so in the grass than alfalfa. If you go for the alfalfa a sprayer of some sort is going to be a must because you will have to spray for insects and it might be difficult to find someone willing to custom spray just 7 acres.

The yield will depend on soil fertility and how much fertilizer you apply. As a general rule I like to figure on good fertilized ground about 100 bales an acre minimum on the 1st cut of orchard and alfalfa around 50-60 bales an acre. Later cuttings the yield will be lower. Orchard grass will be 2-3 cuts a year and alfalfa about 4-5. I wouldn't worry about selling the hay until it is in the barn......that will be the least of your worries.....good hay will sell itself.


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## Vol

Hayden is right, I would suggest to start out with Orchard grass and learn how to make hay.....then maybe add some Alfalfa to your Orchard grass.

Here, Orchard grass sells better than straight Alfalfa in general......Alfalfa/Orchard grass mix sells the very best...HERE. Orchard grass typically brings about $1-1.50 per bale less than alfalfa HERE.

There is a pretty severe learning curve for making straight alfalfa.....having only 7 acres, you need to make every bale count.

You could figure on getting about a 1000 bales total off the description of your ground in a near perfect scenario.....you can get a little more later when you understand fertility and especially if you added alfalfa to the mix.

Plant in the early fall, have someone spray it around the 10th of April....especially the first growing season.

First step is doing a soil test and getting your amendments(N,P,K) up to snuff....after you renter is done.....no use of letting him mine your $.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

Becareful. I think there are several guys and gals on here that started a "hobby" hay farm and now have something significantly more. My dad was a teacher for a long time and also farmed. Though 400 acres. Not 7. He doesn't know how he did both now. Especially in the spring and fall. Hay is ok for that if as you don't have to do spring planting and such while teaching. But fall hay cuttings can get in the way of teaching or vice versa.


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## CaseIH84

Agreed Teslan. The science and challenge that making hay presents has a funny way of sucking you in. I guess at times misery loves company.

I agree with other comments above. I would start with orchard grass and fine tune the craft. Then start mixing in some alfalfa. It seems like everyday you are learning something different or another method on how to do stuff.


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## country boy

I told my wife when I started buying my hay equipment that every man needs a hobby. I started with a 3000.00 dollar tractor 800.00 cutter 1200.00 baler . did not seem like much , time went on and started adding newer toy s and now am up to about 120k in toys. but like I tell her when I am out in the field i am as close to god as i can be and still be breathing , so that is a choice you will have to make on your own , you can get started with a little investment and if it doesn't work out you can still get some of your money back out of the deal ( by the way my doctor told me i was allergic to fescue) but i still have my peace with god


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## mlappin

Another hobby if you're working full time and making hay is to find the nearest wall and start beating your head against it. 

I've done the work full-time/make hay thing, although it was more than 7 acres it never fails that the best weather you have is while your at your town job then when you ain't at the town job it's either raining, too cool, too cloudy, equipment broke, etc.


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## CBarM

I'm not up north so I'm not much on Alfalfa but the equipment is still the same. I love what I do but IMHO I'd fully weigh all the pros and come before I started. One big thing to remember is whatever equipment you buy our have it'll will break down,not if, when... In my experience it'll always happen in the middle of a sticker patch, fire ant bed, farthest place from tool, or in the most inconvenient spot right before a rain your trying to beat. Sometimes you'll wonder why you even got into all this. But then I look up and I see how great it looks around me and I'm not stuck in a cubicle or office, to me its worth it. Be sure you think like that before you start, its easy to get sucked in, next you'll be doing neighboring places and want newer equipment convincing the wife you can pay for it by doing a few more side places.

My two cents worth although it doesn't mean much.


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## mlappin

After re-reading my reply I didn't mean to turn you off the ideal entirely as with the right equipment and enough help you should be able to do 7 acres in a three day weekend no problem, you just need to understand before you start this venture that the weather may not always co-operate when you have time to do the hay which can be VERY frustrating.


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## swmnhay

If you are going to hay and work in town I'd lean towards grass hay or at least a mix alf/ grass.Its way more forgiveing when baleing,rateing then straight alfalfa.Alfalfa can get to dry and you will beat all the leaves of and be baleing a bunch of sticks if not raked or baled at correct moisture.


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## wabn8c

Thanks for the info guys, this is good food for thought. I grew up farming with my dad and farmed on my own a few years as well...trust me, I know about how the weather can screw you whenever possible!

Mike- how much do Orchard grass bales sell for in East TN? I assume these go primarily to horse owners?

The 7 acres I am looking to use is currently in wheat and will have soybeans on it the summer. When do you guys suggest I pull samples? If I plant the orchard grass (and possibly some alfalfa mixed in) in the fall, when should I apply fertilizer and lime if needed?

Also, what make and model of square baler would be best to be on the look out for? Thanks again!


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## wabn8c

I'm going to add two more questions to my already long list of questions in my previous quote (thanks for your time with these).

Can anyone recommend a brand/model of haybine to be looking for?

Would it be good practice to run an aerator over my hay ground each year? And if so, what time during the year? I've seen several 5' or 6' core and spike aerators for sale on Craigslist. Would not be a huge investment...maybe $500.

OK, I'll shut up so you guys can answer!


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## Vol

Any baler made in the last 20 years by JD, NH, or Hesston will be more than sufficient for your needs as long as it has been cared for.....the best choice will probably be the one that is the best buy.

Haybines would be just about the same as above....but if you could swing a used discbine, it would be much better.....but haybines are cheap!...but can be a real pain in heavy first cutting hay.

Orchard here brings $6.50 for first cut at the barn and are primarily purchased by horse, sheep and llama folks....subsequent cuttings bring .50- $1.00 more dependent on the weather season.

Aerators are OK to me....but way down on the list of needs.

Fertilize new seedings when you work the ground.....or a couple of weeks after germination.

I don't think you can grow Timothy on your end of the state, but I generally add it to everything I plant....it sells well.

My favorite mix is Timothy, Orchard, and Alfalfa hay.....it covers all the bases here and everyone likes it....and it brings $7.50 for first and up for subsequent cuttings.

Regards, Mike


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## wabn8c

Thanks Mike! Just thought of a couple more questions for you or the group:

During fall planting, would you recommend working the ground up with a disk, broadcasting the seed and fertilizer, and then making another trip across with a harrow/doall? Or should I rent a small drill from the local FSA office...I believe they still have one for rent.

When you spray your crop in early April, what are you spraying for and what chemical are you using?

When shopping for a baler or haybine, are there any "red flags" I need to look for? I know what some problems are to look for in combines, tractors, planters, etc... I'm really not sure what I should be looking for as potential problems.

If there are 2-3 cuttings for Orchard grass mix, I'm assuming that would be early summer, late summer, and early fall...am I anywhere close on that?

This is all VERY helpful. I'm going to check the growing zone for Timothy.


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## swmnhay

You can mix the seed and fertilizer and spread it on.Drag in and pack.It's a common pactice here.But you should seed a little heavy.Some seed will be to deep some on top.Brillion seeder is probably the best if you have one available to rent.

Red flags are all the bearings and gear boxes.Check oil in gear boxes.I'd have them run it to see that everything runs smooth.

Timothy would be fine in TN a late variety would be best to correlate with alfalfa cutting.


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## CaseIH84

When looking at the balers I would definitely pull all the covers off the plunger and bale chambers. Depending on how well the individual took care of baler will depend on how good steel still is on these chambers. If they never cleaned under these covers then the build up will rust out the steel.

I also like to look down on wear strips that plunger runs on. Balers that have seen tremendous amounts of hay these strips will have grooves wore right in them.

Agree with checking oil in gear boxes too. Plug the check plug and see if it looks like oil was ever changed or not.

Final thing I would have them run some hay through it, see how pickup and knotters work.

I am pretty partial to 315 New Holland balers. You can find older balers still in pretty good shape that won't break the bank for just starting out.

Hay definitely comes with its fair share of challenges but I personally have not found a more peaceful place on earth as when you are out making hay. Just you and the equipment. I love it. Just my 2 cents, good luck with everything.


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## BrangusFeeder

I think your hay idea idea is cool and might make money too.

And then you will start wanting animals too! Don't!

Then you get to worry constantly about it's health and well being, if it's getting out of the fence, and have excuses to buy all sorts of additional equipment and nutritional supplements. Then it's registered stock, I digress.


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## wabn8c

I've been able to find a nice looking NH 565 square baler as well as a nice looking NH 315. I've provided the links below if anyone wants to take a look and give me feedback. Both of these are fairly close to me. The 315 is more in the price range I had in mind. And many of you hear and persons elsewhere are big fans of the 315. Would the 315 take care of me or should I put more money in the baler and get something like the 565?

http://www.fastline.com/v100/New-Holland-315-TRI-COUNTY-EQUIPMENT-Auburn-KY-equipment-detail-602f1722-6110-4eb9-9edf-05cff5ea8817.aspx

http://www.fastline.com/v100/New-Holland-565-PLATEAU-TRUCK-TRACTOR-CROSSVILLE-TN-equipment-detail-f68f60b7-fb0f-44e7-b6bf-26979189d4ab.aspx

Also, what kind of rake would work best? There are a lot of smaller side discharge rakes out there, some 4-5 wheel rakes that are a 3 point hitch, and some 6-8 pull behind wheel rakes. I'm sure saving time is the advantage to the larger ones. Any other factors I need to be aware of?


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## 8350HiTech

A 565 is barely a step up from a 315. It's newer but it really isn't a leap in capacity. If a 315 has been well taken care of it ought to bale right along with a 565. Both balers use the same feeding system that NH used since the dawn of time. If you actually wanted to spend 10k, you'd be better off getting a 570 or 575 so that you could actually be using current rotary feeding design. However, foryour acreage, you would be fine with the old style and save some money. Update later if you have a burning desire to spend more money. No matter what, buy your baler on condition and not on age. It matters if it ties knots more than what decal set it has.


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## Vol

The 315 looks to be in very good shape....

Regards, Mike


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## wabn8c

I've been told by a couple of people here locally tell me that tying is the main thing that will drive you crazy if it's not working correctly. I assume from what I'm hearing from the group is that New Holland balers are reliable at tying if they have been well maintained?

And pointers on potential problems to look for on the knot tying device?


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## Vol

wabn8c said:


> I assume from what I'm hearing from the group is that New Holland balers are reliable at tying if they have been well maintained?
> 
> And pointers on potential problems to look for on the knot tying device?


NH, JD, or Hesston are all reliable if maintained.

Pointers? Ask to see the baler in operation.....several bales.

Regards, Mike


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## CBarM

IMHO any brand of baler regardless of color can have knotting problems. (I prefer wire) I would definetly watch the baler run and tie, even if you got to take a few squares with you to break up in front of it to hand feed it. I've done that many times even when working on one. Always cycle it through the tie cycle by hand first. I even do that after roading one a long way to just make sure. One broke set of needles and you'll be doing it too. Its not supposed to get out of time easily but I've seen strange things happen. Most the time slowing down checking stuff and maintence will save you loads of money.


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## wabn8c

Great idea about taking a few bales with me. I was wondering if that (or something like that) would be possible for me to do before buying one. I assume I need to take a similar hay like what I intend to grow? Or could I get away with taking some wheat straw bales? Just thinking those would be a bit liter and cheaper.

Update: Today I called the gentleman about the NH 315 in my previous post. He told me it is not field ready...it has some malfunction in the bale chamber. He was trying to steer me towards a NH 310 instead. The link below is the 310 he was referring to I think:

http://www.fastline.com/v100/New-Holland-310-TRI-COUNTY-EQUIPMENT-Auburn-KY-equipment-detail-94aae0e5-c052-4983-ae1b-6e6ce08d659c.aspx

Any thoughts on the 310? He talked like he plans to fix the 315 when he gets time. I guess he's not a dealership, just someone who buys and sells bailers.


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## CBarM

I run a Deere 336, its been a great baler to me. I don't do many square a her maybe a few thousand, but if I had to do all over again I'd definetly go with one that has a wide pickup. Most of the newer ones today have a wide pickup. It'll help you out a lot on not missing any hay and a lil more forgiving when baling large windrows.


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## CaseIH84

I believe that the 310 was a little less capacity than the 315.. The 310 has less strokes per minute on the plunger.


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## JMT

I would not be afraid to save some and stick to a disc mower instead of a mower conditioner. Spend the savings on a better, more reliable, higher capacity baler. In my opinion the baler is the last place you want to skimp. Good luck.


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## 8350HiTech

Agree about not wanting to skimp on the baler, but we're talking about seven acres here. A 310 would do the job. However, when looking at a 310, keep in mind that it is basically a 273 with updated sheet metal. Much the same way that the 565 isn't much more than a 315. The 310 and 315 were produced at the same time but one was new engineering and one was old already. If you're at all interested in the 310, make sure it has the supersweep pickup. If it doesn't have it, I recommend you get disinterested.

A 273/310 is capable of doing what you need and some more. They will make the same bale that the others will but at a reduced pace. In your situation, I would think your goal should be to buy a well maintained baler, from nearly any era. If the price is right and it's not worn out, it will last you many years and help make your hobby profitable.

Regarding signs of wear in knotters, you want to check for grooves worn into the parts where the twine runs. Most individual knotter parts aren't terribly expensive, so replacing a few isn't a big deal if you (or someone you know) can figure out how to replace them. Doing some repairs and beginning to learn how the knotters function will only help you in the future. The other thing to check is the grease zerks. Take a grease gun and make sure all of the knotter zerks take grease. If the don't it isn't necessarily a guaranteed failure waiting to happen, but you need to wonder when those parts last received and lubrication.

The knotters on any of the baler brands are very similar in concept in reliability. They may be the most potentially frustrating but anyone who can work on a red knotter can work on a green one so the actual brand you choose shouldn't be a knotter decision. Having a dealer with a helpful (and well stocked) parts department nearby is probably your biggest factor along with the price of any balers you may find for sale within your search area.

Fastline or Tractorhouse are fun to window shop but you'll discover that the prices on equipment there are usually a good percentage above private sales. If you can find a baler on craigslist or the local paper or wherever, consider it. Obviously you wouldn't be looking at a warranty but you won't get one on used equipment from many dealers. Find someone who knows what they're looking at with balers and take them along to look at your potential baler. Combine that with what you're learning here and you'll be well set to make the best decision possible.

Good luck!
Nathan


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## wabn8c

This may be a dumb question, but how do you differentiate between a wide pickup and a normal width pickup? Didn't know if there is a standard width for one or both.


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## 8350HiTech

wabn8c said:


> This may be a dumb question, but how do you differentiate between a wide pickup and a normal width pickup? Didn't know if there is a standard width for one or both.


Every model of square baler that I am aware of comes with a set pickup width. I'm a NH guy so off the top of my head I know that the 320 (with the exception of some early ones), 326, 575, BC5070 have 75" pickups. The rest, with some exceptions of ancient models, are 65". Any model you are interested in should be easy to determine the width with a quick google search "JD 337 pickup width"...

The Supersweep that I referred to is important, not because of width, but number of teeth. Some older models had different numbers of teeth on the same width pickup. Supersweep has more teeth and thus better ability to get hay off of the ground into the baler.


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## CBarM

I'm not a twine guy on small squares, but if I was I'd want to know all the ins n outs of the knotters. I'm not sure how good it is but I believe there is a DVD a guy made on how to repair and rebuild knotters. I'm sure it would be helpful, the guys website it www.bestbalerparts.com. Again I don't use twine but this may be worth looking at they're only $10 if I remember correctly so not a huge waste if its crap.


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## FarmerCline

I agree with buying a baler with a supersweep pickup if you can.....if I remember correctly the pickup teeth on a supersweep are twice as close together than the teeth on a regular pickup. I think back in the day when those balers were new the supersweep was an option so you will see some balers without it. The supersweep pickup works a lot better than the regular pickup in a short, fine crop like later cuttings of grass. The 310 in the link looks like it has a regular pickup with the wide spaced teeth.


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## 8350HiTech

FarmerCline said:


> I agree with buying a baler with a supersweep pickup if you can.....if I remember correctly the pickup teeth on a supersweep are twice as close together than the teeth on a regular pickup. I think back in the day when those balers were new the supersweep was an option so you will see some balers without it. The supersweep pickup works a lot better than the regular pickup in a short, fine crop like later cuttings of grass. The 310 in the link looks like it has a regular pickup with the wide spaced teeth.


Yeah, that's definitely not a supersweep. 5k for that. Yikes. Keep looking.


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## PaCustomBaler

I'm a little late getting to the thread, but I'd go for it wabn8c...absolutely. I've done the teaching and haying deal and it works fine. I started with 4 acres making 400 bales a year....now at 400 acres making 35,000 bales/year along with some 3x3 bales.

I'd stay away from the alfalfa first though...go with another cool-season grass like OG, Tim, Brome, etc. Get some soil tests done on the field, apply lime if needed then sew your field in the fall like Mike said, followed by fertilizing in the spring.

Start with small and older equipment, it's quite an investment to get all of the haying tools obviously. I'd look into a NH 489 haybine and balers like NH 326 baler or JD 337 are good starter balers if you're looking for that wider pickup. Sorry AGCO guys, I'm not up and up on your equipment models.


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