# Ether start?



## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

We have an age 574 with either start. The orfice at the end it goes into the air intake clogs. Can I remove this orifice And have it just spray into the air intake Or should I drill it out a little bigger?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Orifice is in the ether starting aid for a very simple(GOOD) reason. The reason is to keep human beings from introducing too much ether into the engine while attempting to start engine. This ether limitation helps eliminate premature engine failures.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

fball1208 said:


> We have an age 574 with either start. The orfice at the end it goes into the air intake clogs. Can I remove this orifice And have it just spray into the air intake Or should I drill it out a little bigger?


Clean your filter/housing more often and give the orifice a blow. It is a Very bad idea to enlarge the orifice.

I have a 454 that I have to use ether on when it is very cold. It already had an ether start kit when I bought the tractor but no canister. The first time I used it I did not check the orifice. The fitting had been removed so there was no orifice. The first time I used the either start it blew the head gasket because it dumped way too much starting fluid in the engine. After learning this expensive lesson I even put a flow control valve inline to reduce the fluid flow even more. The rule of thumb my mechanic told me is that if the engine is knocking at all when starting on fluid there is too much fluid going in. If the engine still will not start there is something else going on that should be addressed.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

Ok I will see what I need to do to clean it again. I just did it the other day and has been used once since. Filter is clean and housing also so jut don’t understand why it clogs. First time after cleaning it I tried it outside the hose and it put out a fine mist for about a second. And tube was empty. Now hit the button it will not start and if you crack the line at the selanoid fluid comes out. What kind of valve did you use?


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I avoid ether at all costs. Does it have a block heater? If not I would install one and make sure batteries are up to par.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

It does have an inline kats heater. But on extremely cold days it still needs a hit of ether. All though I think the heater is on backwards as it has the flow going toward the block on the left side and I’m pretty sure it should be the opposite. It’s been on the tractor since we got it and I just haven’t got it off to check as it’s hidden behind the loader mount.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I wonder if engine has an intake valve that's not seating correctly allowing compression to blow back onto ether orifice? I don't remember hearing of an ether orifice plugging before this one.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IH 1586 said:


> I avoid ether at all costs. Does it have a block heater? If not I would install one and make sure batteries are up to par.


Ditto I've witnessed several engines that have been ruined due to excessive use of starting fluid.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

I didnt see any signs of blow back in the intake, No soot etc, im going to try an new air filter as when we go this tractor it had walnuts and moss in the air intake cannister and filter housing, tore it all apart down to the engine to make sure i got everything and didnt find anything past the air filter but just cleaned the filter as we need the tractor more or less right away. Anyone know which way the heater should go so i can make sure its right? Its mounted on left side with a pipe nipple coming out of the block to the heater and then a hose running upfront of the tractor to i believe the right side (havent looked to see where its attached). Flow indicator on the heater is pointed toward the block on the left side so fluid would flow to the block.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

Are you using the cold weather start position on the injection pump before using starting fluid or the block heater? There is a position on the fuel shut off just before shutting off the fuel that changes injection timing for cold weather starting.

We never had to use starting fluid on our 574, plug in the block heater and the cold weather start position always got it started. On ours the block heater was on the left side as you describe with flow indicator pointing toward hot input in block. If remembering correctly the input was also on left side of block and definitely higher than cold flow out of block. Also make sure there aren't any pinched or restricted areas in both hoses, the hot coolant needs to flow freely by thermo-siphon effect. Also make sure the battery has a full charge and can spin the engine not just turn it over, correct oil viscosity helps with this also.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

yeah it has the cold engine start which we use, also has a new battery which is always on a tender. Ok thats how our heater is with the hose coming out the other side running up and over the alternator to the right side of the tractor


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not a huge fan of ether, would rather install a block heater or tank heater before messing around fixing an ether start. Gear reduction starters help tremendously.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Sometimes when it's cold even with a block heate, ether is still needed. In those cases I would prefer a functioning injection system over spraying the can into the air intake.

Also in an emergency when you dont have time to wait on a block heater ether is a lifesaver.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

While i would rather not use it ether has saved me a few times. Question i have is just found the manual that says to push the button while cranking, or should this be down with engine not cranking? I have a can of JD which is 80% ether and i belive it says not to crank engine while spraying.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Pushing while cranking is the best. It helps insure that the ether is equally pulled into all cylinders and your not getting a puddle someplace. My Fords with ether injection will only work when the key is held in the crank position.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

A couple of other things not stated in earlier post:

1. The hose going from the out put of the block heater should not go up and then back down to a lower spot on the block than the highest point of the hose, this is why I believe our 574 had hot water entering the block on the left side. With the hose going over the alternator you could have a high spot before entry into the block. You may need to re-plumb exit and entry points.

2. Have you had injectors checked to make sure they have a fine, well atomized spray pattern?


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## pettibone (Jul 18, 2015)

I had a 584 that you would pull the engine stop halfway and that made it start better, not sure what it did but it worked. That had a ether injection system on it but never used it or any other sort of ether on it the whole time I had it, always started but if it was real cold plugged it in.

I think hot water from the heater should go into the block at a lower point than it comes out, that way it takes advantage of natural convection, ya know heat rises.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

On my Whites the ether start is tied into the starter, with a temp sensor on the block. Disconnected them and never put a full can on the solenoid. I agree about in an emergency, however with a good block heater I've had all my chore tractors start from being plugged in all night.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Last winter at -35° with a 50mph wind my loader tractor was parked outside plugged in all night and still needed a whiff of ether to get running.

Or when you forget to plug the tractor in and have hungry cows waiting and no time to wait for the heater. Or when you dont have the tractor plugged in and the county snowplow slides off the road and needs a pull.

When used correctly ether is a perfectly safe and effective way to start a diesel.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

Well going to pull it back apart tomorrow and clean and see and also switch heater around. Definitely need it when the cows are hungry.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

NEVER EVER SPRAY ETHER WHEN ENGINE IS NOT CRANKING! EVER!
It will break pistons and bend rods almost guaranteed! If the engine has no compression it might be ok but as a rule... nope never whiff it unless its spinning! And if it locks STOP! Let the ether evaporate and dissipate! 
I have seen soooo many ruined engines from ether that I hate using it also!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> When used correctly ether is a perfectly safe and effective way to start a diesel.


I agree when starting fluid is utilized ""CORRECTLY"" BUT over my many yrs associated with farm equipment I've witnessed starting fluid utilized ""incorrectly"" more often than correctly. Starting fluid is very similar to Exlax a little goes a long way. I've seen several piston top ring lands & top rings broken due to too much starting fluid


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Crank the tractor over a few times to get the oil moving and while cranking give a short burst of ether. If possible a warm can is better than a cold can.

Got guys been running the same logging equipment starting it with ether daily for 7 months of the year for 30 and 40 years without blowing motors apart.


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## fball1208 (Jul 13, 2011)

Heater works well unless we forget to plug it in. Have a new air filter on the way to see if that helps kee the orfice from
Clogging. When it's not clogged on quick hit of the button while she spins and it fires right up. I assume what the selanod lets out is ancorecct spray as I see no way adjust it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

It's my understanding that the orifice controls the amount of starting fluid that can be put into intake manifold.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Correctly might be completely understood by some, IMHO. There is some good advice above, from a little goes a long way, to plugging in the block heater first (avoidance if possible), to having engine turning over when applying, well charged battery, etc.

Properly done, an engine can last for decades, improperly done, I seen a number one cylinder (closest to ether intake) that was in unbelievable shape in much less time

However, with a newer style engine (common rail), there might be even a smaller window of 'correctly' that comes to mind. I'm thinking like NEVER, but it's not my engine that is getting the ether.  Naturally YMMV.

Larry


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

My mechanic says if you are going to use it shoot it in threw air intake for aircleaner and the filter will help spread the ether to all cylinders more evenly.And be spinning engine over when spraying it.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> My mechanic says if you are going to use it shoot it in threw air intake for aircleaner and the filter will help spread the ether to all cylinders more evenly.And be spinning engine over when spraying it.


I have two diesels that I use daily that are not the greatest cold starters. I use ether on both. I've learned what they need to start without knocking. I spray the ether in the beginning of the air intake tract and without the engine cranking. By the time the ether gets to the cylinders it is diffused sufficiently that the engine simply fires up without any commotion. The 188D in my skidsteer requires a remarkable small amount of ether to fire up.


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