# ¿Question on transitioning to Organic Alfalfa?



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I am considering transitioning to certified organic alfalfa here in Central Texas. Customers could be Austin and Waco organic milk goat people. 
Who do I need to contact to find out the actual ground rules in Texas?

Question, is it allowed for an organic grower to use weed killers on the fence rows to prevent the migration of weed seeds? There is now a plowed strip maintained next to my neighbors fence. In the fence is a 20 year supply of weed seed. 
Primatol, Velpar, Weedmaster, & RU help a little.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not sure about Texas, but I have a friend in organic dairy, not allowed to use weed killers anywhere on the farm.

He seriously wanted me to continue supplying his hay for him when he started talking about going to organic milk. Even offered to pay my way to goto conferences on it and what not. After further research into the requirements I decided it wasn't worth it.

Not sure about this year, but a few years ago he paid less for a years supply of hay (by the ton) than what I averaged on selling my 2,3 and fourth cuttings. Last year it was the same price, but I didn't have to deal with the paperwork or the certification like I would if I was raising organic hay.

Course he still wants me to go organic as he's tired of paying the 40-50 bucks a ton for delivery from out of state. Told him last time it was mentioned that I have since rotated some hayfields out of production and the rest are now closer to home than his place so why would I deliver it for free?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Hay Wilson

Try this site:

Texas Department of Agriculture

Also:

http://www.ehow.com/how_6633345_become-certified-organic-farmer-texas.html


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Thank you vhaby.

The fee's appear higher than expected, but the process does not appear to be a real problem.

I can visualize a potential problem if the individual doing tje certifing is greedy with larsony in thew sole.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Mr.Wilson glad to hear of you going organic. I started it last year on my bermuda grass and have had good results. I am not certified just cost way too much,but I tell my customers that I fertilize organically and don't use chemicals and some of them come back and tell me that their animal will clean it up and will eat it before they eat other hay that was fertilized with chemical. This year has been very dry,we are one the four driest counties in the state of Texas and my fields stayed greener than other fields that were fertilized with chemical fertilizer,not having any weed problem to have to need to spray,I read all this before going organic and didn't believe it,but now I am starting to believe that they are right of course this is my second year so time will tell.


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## baddog201 (Sep 18, 2010)

nhbaler282 said:


> Mr.Wilson glad to hear of you going organic. I started it last year on my bermuda grass and have had good results. I am not certified just cost way too much,but I tell my customers that I fertilize organically and don't use chemicals and some of them come back and tell me that their animal will clean it up and will eat it before they eat other hay that was fertilized with chemical. This year has been very dry,we are one the four driest counties in the state of Texas and my fields stayed greener than other fields that were fertilized with chemical fertilizer,not having any weed problem to have to need to spray,I read all this before going organic and didn't believe it,but now I am starting to believe that they are right of course this is my second year so time will tell.


Well first off you can get the same results with chemical fertilzer as you do with manure if you put the same compostion on. We raise 11,000 hogs a year and 100 head of beef and farm 500 acres of hay and 7,000-9,000 acres of row crop ground depending on the year and if you fertilze right you wont be able to tell the difference my hay how ever is almost all fertilzed with manure just for the simple fact we can haul hog manure on it in the summer where as our crops are on the other fields but we still dont have enough manure to cover all of our ground and still buy convential fertilzer


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

*Baddog201* I happen to agree whole heartedly with your points.

My goal for coastal bermudagrass is to produce a ton of hay for close to 3 inches of useable rainfall. In a drought year I have produced a ton of hay with just over 4" of useable rain. 
Do that with 300 to 500 lbs/A anhydrous ammonia with 200 lb/A 11-37-0. Also broadcast 500 lbs/A 0-0-60, when the mood is upon me, and cash flow allows.
If it becomes necessary to use Turkey Litter to supply the phosphate and potassium, I will just have to accept the calcium and additional weed inoculation. I can make that work because with our normal rainfall, perpetual drought broken by irregular floods, is a summer drought. I fallow the alfalfa ground for a full year. The object is to bring the fertility up to snuff and WEED Control. 
I have to apply over 70 lbs/A or P2O5 to change my soil test one (1) ppm P. Ten percent calcium carbonate will do that to you. 
That is why, for my bermudagrass, I like to use 11-37-0 down the same slot with 82-0-0. The ammonium protects the phosphate from the native calcium.

*nhbaler282* I can not visualize going organic with my bermudagrass hay. Biggest problem is all my bermudagrass meadows are in an annual flood plain which translates to a bountiful supply of johnsongrass seed. 
My favorite weed control (johnsongrass) is using a rope wick with roundup, With 5 floods this year and one major river flood I have will have to use Maverick or what ever it is called now. 
In the good old days we used MSMA for johnsongrass control, but that has not been an option for many years. 
In normal times I like to spray the bermudagrass with a pint of Round Up in late March or early April, to get some weeds. The major reason though is to set the bermudagrass back two to three weeks, giving me time to get the second cutting of alfalfa in the barn.

IF I do go organic alfalfa I fully expect to sell organic at the same price I would have sold the alfalfa if it were not "organic". Every cutting of every field is sampled for hay analysis and it is sold based on feed value. My only reason to go organic would be to accommodate my customers, not *to SELL ORGANIC*. 
I developed a poor opinion of some of the organic crowd. About 15 years ago the Temple Farm & Ranch Club had two speakers for organic. One of the Farm & Ranch members is from a family who are all obsessed with organic. 
One speaker told how bad all those chemicals are. Went all limp just thinking about it. 
The other was an unabashed profiteer. He had a sly smile as he mentioned how he was getting 3 to 5 times market value for his product. I gathered he thought those who would pay those prices for Organic was a more than a little light in the head.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> I developed a poor opinion of some of the organic crowd. About 15 years ago the Temple Farm & Ranch Club had two speakers for organic. One of the Farm & Ranch members is from a family who are all obsessed with organic.
> One speaker told how bad all those chemicals are. Went all limp just thinking about it.
> The other was an unabashed profiteer. He had a sly smile as he mentioned how he was getting 3 to 5 times market value for his product. I gathered he thought those who would pay those prices for Organic was a more than a little light in the head.


Aye.

My friend's wife is getting that way, they have the organic dairy btw. For awhile if she did go out to eat with us, she'd eat before leaving the house as she wouldn't order anything at a restaurant unless it was organic. Her husband (who does the majority of the work) could give a rats ass about whether or not it's organic as long as its good.

A lady down the road that I have made her organic hay in the past told us that organic carrot juice and something else organic will cure autism. She also told my wife if she went to an all organic diet, it would cure her heart problems. I should ask her specialist tomorrow if we can just skip the valve replacement surgery and start eating all organic.


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## mtarrant (Aug 10, 2009)

You might look at Watson Ranch in Hawkins, TX, they do a lot of organic supplies. watsonranchorganic.com 
A lot of people think it is just using manure instead of conventional fertilizer, but there is way more to it.
My biggest concern is weeds!!! Every acre has millions of weed seeds just waiting to agitate us!!!!
I have a patch of coastal and native grass that I am going to try some of the Watson Ranch stuff on.


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

Hay wilson, I'm curious why you would not charge a premium for organic alfalfa when I would assume your customer charges a premium for the organic product he would produce from your extra efforts. I'm not talking ripoff premiums but something fair would be in order I would guess. Maybe I assume too much eh?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Currently I have more regular alfalfa customers than potential organic hay customers. 
If I were able to produce organic alfalfa at little or insignificant increase in break even, why not treat all equally? Plus it might require segregating hay as organic and regular hay.

In addition I am the only locally grown alfalfa supplier for miles in any direction. If I wanted to gouge the market I could have started long ago. Grandpa said we get greedy we loose it all. 
Having only one price would be a real competitive advantage.

Right now it appears going organic is more trouble than it is worth. That the system is full of superficial additional cost of operation that adds nothing to the quality of the product. The beauty of being organic is all in the eyes of the beholder and I am not a true believer. I am a pragmatist.

Something that has been a disappointment for me is the organic dairy goat hay buyer is just as ignorant about alfalfa as is the typical horse owner. Possibly even more ignorant.


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