# Grain bin floor support?



## bensbales

So im putting up a used grain bin for my neighbors it a 18x18 bin that going to hold about 100 tons of soybeans.The bin came with perferated sheets for the airation floor so my question is how do i support and fasten this floor? We are planning to use cement blocks to get the needed hight then i thought about using 3x3 pressure treated on top of the blocks and screwing the floor to the 3x3. Will the 3x3's cary that much weight if i space them out 16inches on center? What should be my block spacing? By the way ordering a new floor is not in their budget. Thank in advance?


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## mlappin

Sheets or planks? I've seen the sheets before, but usually they were placed over tunnels in the cement floor.

We just took down a 18' bin and replaced with a larger one. It had cement block supporting the floor with 2x6 placed on top of the blocks. The help took that one down so off hand I couldn't tell you the block spacing.

We used the cement block and 2x6 method in our 24'x80' stave silo when we converted it to hold shelled corn so it will certainly work for a grain bin although we used the solid cement blocks as a standard block won't take 55' of grain on them.

DO you have anyone in the area that deals with grain handling and bin erection? They could certainly give you an ideal on spacings between the blocks and the spacing between the rows of planks.

We just erected three used 24' diameter bins this fall, a 9 ring with heat and a stirator for drying beans and a 11 and 12 ring for more dry corn storeage, added 3 new rings on the 9, 5 on the 11 and 6 new rings on the 12. Installed new floors in the 11 and 12 as what came out of them was junk. Between the three used floors in these bins we had just enough to make one up to go in the bean bin. That floor took three days of farting around to get installed while the new ones took less than a day a piece. New ones come precut and numbered these days, start at the wall and follow the chart for placing the snap in floor supports. Our 36' bin makes the 24's look tiny.

Our bin jacks are now for sale, we add any more bins and with the package deals we can have one large new one installed for what we had in the three by time we bought the cement for the foundations, two new floors, all the new added bottom rings, new walk thru doors, new ladder for the outside with safety cage and platform, new fans, new unload tubes, pipe, elbows and clamps for the pneumatic grain mover, paying for extra help etc. But we gained a lot of flexibility by adding three smaller bins instead of one large one, so for money spent I'd call it even.

I'll ask father if he remembers the block and plank spacing at all under that floor in the 18' bin.


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## bensbales

These are sheets. How did you arrange your blocks for your 24'x60' stave silo? Did you lay the 2x6's flat or on edge? The closes place that sells bins is in quebec, about 60 miles north of me supposed to rain thursday maybe ill take a trip up.



mlappin said:


> Between the three used floors in these bins we had just enough to make one up to go in the bean bin. That floor took three days of farting around to get installed while the new ones took less than a day a piece.


Ya fooling around with this used stuff that someone else dissembled can eat up lots of time, time i don't have! This makes the 3rd used bin that i've put up the first one was the easiest because we took that one down our selves. What are you guys seieng for yield this year on beans? We are around 40bu/acre down from 56bu/acre last year. Thank for replying mlappin


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## rjmoses

bensbales said:


> What are you guys seieng for yield this year on beans? We are around 40bu/acre down from 56bu/acre last year.


Yields seem to be ALL over the place around here--from 35 to 60+. I had one field at 52, others at 44. Average at 47. Neighbor's field right next to my 52 came in at 61.

Two main factors--the earlier planting vs later and a rain in August. Seems that some guys hereabouts got 1/2" in Aug. that missed me and that made a BIG difference. I was bone dry July and Aug.

Ralph


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## mlappin

Hard to give an average yet, still have around 300 acres to cut if the rain ever stops.

Worst was 20 on some blow sand, best was 70 on some heavily tiled clay ground. Last years average was 62.

Strange thing is some guys with irrigation are barely breaking 50, I'm thinking too much water and cooler then average temps this year lead to disease problems. Also probably didn't get stressed at the right times either.


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## bensbales

I think our biggest problem here was the 20inches of rain we got in the 6 weeks right after planting. We planted most of our beans may 19th it then rained some and they all germinated just right about 140,000 the it rained and rained al the low spot were water sat they died off i think we only ended up with a final pop of 110,000. Some of the better plants that survived had pod counts of 60-70 while most had around 35-40. Tile drainage would have paid off nicely this year but most of our land is rented.



mlappin said:


> Worst was 20 on some blow sand, best was 70 on some heavily tiled clay ground. Last years average was 62.


How close are your tiles in your clay?


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## haybaler101

I will take 110,000 final pop on may beans any day over 140,000. They will out yield every time. Had some this year that struggled to be at 75,000 and made 55 bpa. Replants had a pop of 160,000 and made 57 bpa. BUT, stems were chest high and combine growled out 3 mph. Low pop beans were 18 inches tall, loaded with pods, cruised at 5 mph and the only thing out the back was empty pods and dust.


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## mlappin

bensbales said:


> I think our biggest problem here was the 20inches of rain we got in the 6 weeks right after planting. We planted most of our beans may 19th it then rained some and they all germinated just right about 140,000 the it rained and rained al the low spot were water sat they died off i think we only ended up with a final pop of 110,000. Some of the better plants that survived had pod counts of 60-70 while most had around 35-40. Tile drainage would have paid off nicely this year but most of our land is rented.
> 
> How close are your tiles in your clay?


On the gumbo we installed it on 35' centers.

The 70 bpa field has the low spots on 40' centers thru the gumbo then where needed after that.

Best averages though this year for either corn or beans has come off the home farm, drainage plays a huge part. Have decided I either need to rent more ground that needs water added or own more of the heavier ground so we can get it tiled properly.


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## bensbales

haybaler101 said:


> I will take 110,000 final pop on may beans any day over 140,000. They will out yield every time. Had some this year that struggled to be at 75,000 and made 55 bpa. Replants had a pop of 160,000 and made 57 bpa. BUT, stems were chest high and combine growled out 3 mph. Low pop beans were 18 inches tall, loaded with pods, cruised at 5 mph and the only thing out the back was empty pods and dust.


Haybaler101 what's your row spacing and maturity group? We are planting 1.7's on 30" rows. I had a small field that we tiled this spring and didn't get planted until june 21 they only got about 16" high and yielded 38 bpa the combine flew threw that field at 4 mph. What are you running for a combine? This is only our 4th year growing beans, so much to learn! Were talking about trying some no till next year, some on sod some on this years bean ground any suggestions? Thanks in advance!


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## haybaler101

I run 15" rows, 3.8 to 4.5 maturity. Running a CIH 2388 combine with 25' head.


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## haybaler101

I no till all beans into corn stalks and try to have cereal rye cover crop in the corn stalks.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> I no till all beans into corn stalks and try to have cereal rye cover crop in the corn stalks.


We've tried flying rye grass into standing corn in the past, have since gone to rye instead.

Bean ground gets rye and whatever else we can lay our hands on spread right behind the combine then lightly hit with the Till-lite to incorporate.

Shortest we plant is a group 2.6, longest is usually a 3.6 or 3.9, depending on when we start out planting 140,000, if it starts to get late we start getting around 180,000 or better in 15" rows.

Running a Massey Ferguson 9690 with a 30' head.


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## bensbales

So with 15" rows are you guy using a no till drill or a corn planter?What do you guys like to see for planting depth? I'm using a old 6row jd 7000 with kinze brush meters planting them about 1". Also i running 150# of 10-10-40 threw the planter in a attempt to band my fertility. Next spring i will probably going to use the extension agency's haybuster no till drill but its only 10' wide.They wont let you run fertilizer in the planter so i'm limited to broadcasting my fertilizer plus i hope i can get it when i need it. My big plan(ha! ha!) is to get up to couple hundred acres of beans, growing continuos beans for 3-4 yrs then rotate it into hay.


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## haybaler101

bensbales said:


> So with 15" rows are you guy using a no till drill or a corn planter?What do you guys like to see for planting depth? I'm using a old 6row jd 7000 with kinze brush meters planting them about 1". Also i running 150# of 10-10-40 threw the planter in a attempt to band my fertility. Next spring i will probably going to use the extension agency's haybuster no till drill but its only 10' wide.They wont let you run fertilizer in the planter so i'm limited to broadcasting my fertilizer plus i hope i can get it when i need it. My big plan(ha! ha!) is to get up to couple hundred acres of beans, growing continuos beans for 3-4 yrs then rotate it into hay.


Stay with your 7000 and split the rows, or just stay in 30". Either way, you will be happier than the drill. Drills are 1930's technology with a 2013 price tag. I use a 7000 6 row with a 5 row splitter bar. All units have kinze meters as well. Wouldn't trade it for anything but an actual kinze planter.


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## mlappin

bensbales said:


> So with 15" rows are you guy using a no till drill or a corn planter?What do you guys like to see for planting depth? I'm using a old 6row jd 7000 with kinze brush meters planting them about 1". Also i running 150# of 10-10-40 threw the planter in a attempt to band my fertility. Next spring i will probably going to use the extension agency's haybuster no till drill but its only 10' wide.They wont let you run fertilizer in the planter so i'm limited to broadcasting my fertilizer plus i hope i can get it when i need it. My big plan(ha! ha!) is to get up to couple hundred acres of beans, growing continuos beans for 3-4 yrs then rotate it into hay.


Using a 30' mounted Hiniker air seeder. Plant however deep required to find moisture and never less than an inch deep, have planted almost two inches deep with the Hiniker. Between no-till and the closing wheels on the Hinker, crusting is practically never a problem.

We fertilize for the next years bean crop while applying the corn fertilizer. Seen an article somewhere on how beans make much better use of nutrients that have already been taken up by another plant then released when the first plant decomposes.


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## bensbales

haybaler101 said:


> Stay with your 7000 and split the rows, or just stay in 30". Either way, you will be happier than the drill. Drills are 1930's technology with a 2013 price tag. I use a 7000 6 row with a 5 row splitter bar. All units have kinze meters as well. Wouldn't trade it for anything but an actual kinze planter.


My reasoning behind using a drill was for its no till ability, not sure on how to set up my 7000 for no till. Where do you mount a 5 row splitter bar? never heard of one. If i use my 7000 for no till will my marker disks be aggressive enough?



mlappin said:


> We fertilize for the next years bean crop while applying the corn fertilizer. Seen an article somewhere on how beans make much better use of nutrients that have already been taken up by another plant then released when the first plant decomposes.


So are you banding your corn fertilizer or broadcasting? Phosphorous run off into lake champlain is becoming a big deal. Dairy farmers who spread manure on corn silage ground then fall plow have been blamed for most of the contamination but they never mention all the sewage treatment plant on the rivers. I'm thinking sometime in my future this "green state" will implement some restrictions on Phosphorous. No till farming and putting the nutrients into the ground will help with our water quality problems even though i don't drive a Prius i still care about our lake but i want to make a living too. I have fond memories of mowing hay with grandpa and then taking the boat to the lake in the afternoon.


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## FCF

Yeah I hear you! Heard the same stories in Maryland about the farmers fertilizer running into the Bay. Never mind about how heavy the fertilzer rates were in the suburbs that were closer with less filter area than a corn field, just make sure my lawn grows and looks green.


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## mlappin

bensbales said:


> My reasoning behind using a drill was for its no till ability, not sure on how to set up my 7000 for no till. Where do you mount a 5 row splitter bar? never heard of one. If i use my 7000 for no till will my marker disks be aggressive enough?
> 
> So are you banding your corn fertilizer or broadcasting? Phosphorous run off into lake champlain is becoming a big deal. Dairy farmers who spread manure on corn silage ground then fall plow have been blamed for most of the contamination but they never mention all the sewage treatment plant on the rivers. I'm thinking sometime in my future this "green state" will implement some restrictions on Phosphorous. No till farming and putting the nutrients into the ground will help with our water quality problems even though i don't drive a Prius i still care about our lake but i want to make a living too. I have fond memories of mowing hay with grandpa and then taking the boat to the lake in the afternoon.


Broadcasting in the spring before we start planting, with no-till and the plant residue from the year before it stays put pretty well.

We have never been fans of fall tillage due to erosion concerns but have done some once in a great while, have NEVER fall applied our fertilizer. I can't believe how soon in the spring I've seen the co-op or others start spreading fertilizer, if the grounds froze yet I can't see it being a good ideal.


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## haybaler101

bensbales said:


> My reasoning behind using a drill was for its no till ability, not sure on how to set up my 7000 for no till. Where do you mount a 5 row splitter bar? never heard of one. If i use my 7000 for no till will my marker disks be aggressive enough?
> 
> So are you banding your corn fertilizer or broadcasting? Phosphorous run off into lake champlain is becoming a big deal. Dairy farmers who spread manure on corn silage ground then fall plow have been blamed for most of the contamination but they never mention all the sewage treatment plant on the rivers. I'm thinking sometime in my future this "green state" will implement some restrictions on Phosphorous. No till farming and putting the nutrients into the ground will help with our water quality problems even though i don't drive a Prius i still care about our lake but i want to make a living too. I have fond memories of mowing hay with grandpa and then taking the boat to the lake in the afternoon.


7000 will no till into anything a drill will. I run Martin row cleaners and keep the seed disk new and adjusted properly. I do not use no till coulters. Also have spiked closing wheels. My 5 row is 3 pt mounted and 6 row hooks behind it. Have seen some custom built units mounted to the back of the six row.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> 7000 will no till into anything a drill will. I run Martin row cleaners and keep the seed disk new and adjusted properly. I do not use no till coulters. Also have spiked closing wheels. My 5 row is 3 pt mounted and 6 row hooks behind it. Have seen some custom built units mounted to the back of the six row.


That's how White used to do their splitter, bolted to the main frame of the planter and trailed behind it with lift asset wheels on the splitter, PITA to fill the front row of seed boxes up. A neighbor had an experimental White model designed for planting wheat, a triple splitter, or one splitter behind another so you could plant wheat in 10" rows. THAT was absolutely horrible to fill up with fifty pound bags of seed, a seed jet would have been handier but still inconvenient.


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## bensbales

haybaler101 said:


> 7000 will no till into anything a drill will. I run Martin row cleaners and keep the seed disk new and adjusted properly. I do not use no till coulters. Also have spiked closing wheels. My 5 row is 3 pt mounted and 6 row hooks behind it. Have seen some custom built units mounted to the back of the six row.


I like this idea do you happen to have any pictures? What tractor are you pulling this with? My other thought was to buy 2 more row units and turn my 6 row into and 8 row that would give me 21.5" row spacing sound good in my head but haven't put the tape measure to the planter yet.


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## haybaler101

bensbales said:


> I like this idea do you happen to have any pictures? What tractor are you pulling this with? My other thought was to buy 2 more row units and turn my 6 row into and 8 row that would give me 21.5" row spacing sound good in my head but haven't put the tape measure to the planter yet.


I do not have any pics. I bought the toolbar 5 row off of a Mennonite that refurbishes JD planters. I have ran it for 7 years I think. Started out pulling it on an 806 IH but it needed 1200 lbs of front weights and still turned with the brakes. I use my TL100a now and it is FWA and has a loader and usually carry a bucket for extra weight when planting beans.


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## bensbales

Thanks for the bean knowledge guys we're all pretty new to this stuff around here. Never thought posting a grain bin question would lead to a agronomy lesson, its just another example of how good this site is.

Thank you mlappin and haybaler101.


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## bensbales

The grain bin is done! We ended up just using cement blocks to support the floor and screwed the floor to it self where the panels overlapped. It came out ok felt as stiff as a corlock floor that we have in the first bin. This bin was a PAIN IN THE A... First, the owner assembled 1st ring and roof in a different location, 1/2 mile down the road then loaded the whole thing on a flatbed wagon and didn't support it good enough resulting in a bent and warped first ring.

2nd, we were given 3/8 fasteners but the bin holes are 5/16 so had to do like Tony Beets on goldrush drill drill drill and drill some more.

3rd, missing parts we were 1 panel short from completing the last ring opps! took a ride to quebec and luckily they had one.

4th wrong parts, the door didn't fill the hole and had to fabricate pieces to fill the gaps. The new ducting didn't fit the bin or the fan and was made out of tin, so i fabricated that whole set up.

All in all the bin turned out good. The Neighbor is very happy with our work and is thank full that we got it done, my helpers will end up with a nice check and i gained a whole lot more experience, priceless?!


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## mlappin

Yup, the first two we did this fall went really well, the last was a pita.

Not sure why or how, but no matter what all the holes in the stirator track would line up with the original holes.

Had a few bad sheets in the last one that were missed on disassembly so we patched em with the original door sheets leftover from the first two.

Took three days of martin around to get the used floor back together. Had less than a day each in the new floors that went in the first two bins.

Our bin jacks are up for sale soon as the neighbor is done with em. Next time around we will just by new and let the dealer install.


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## farmerb15722

Stave silo to grain bin" did you line interior with something?? how did u make holes for unloading auger and fan?

I have 10 foot stave sitting empty and it would easily hold my extra corn. would appreciate input from anyone thats done this .


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## mlappin

farmerb15722 said:


> Stave silo to grain bin" did you line interior with something?? how did u make holes for unloading auger and fan?
> 
> I have 10 foot stave sitting empty and it would easily hold my extra corn. would appreciate input from anyone thats done this .


This was a 24'x80'. Was the last one North Liberty Silo company put up, they never did a 24' before so it had a lot of extra bands on it.

We cut one stave out below the floor for a 6 inch auger tube.

We added an extra band above and below the 6 inch auger tube then went a quarter the way around and cut three out between the original bands for an air inlet. We picked up a high static pressure centrifugal blower for air flow. This is essential, no matter how good the plaster is on the inside a stave silo will still sweat, a LOT.

If your going very high at all a tube will need to be placed over the sump i the floor for unloading. If the corn is allowed to just flow like in a grain bin it can blow a silo apart as when it unloads corn flowing down will double the wall pressure. This is why older grain bins in questionable condition blow apart when unloading.

We have feet on the bottom of the tube that when you pull a pin they slide up inside a thick wall 2 1/2" pipe, then are strapped up out of the way for the sweep to go around. Usually easiest to use a hi lift jack to take a little pressure off to pull the pins. Our pipe is 55 foot tall, it hangs off the original silo unloader cable then in three places has legs going from the center pipe at a 45 angle up to the silo walls to help keep the pipe centered. These were installed as we put the pipe together then the pipes were tied at the top to the center pipe with a slip knot. This was done so we could continue to raise the pipe with the winch, once in place we yanked the rope, the knots untied and the support pipes free fell to the walls.

At the bottom of the standpipe we made a sleeve in halves that go around the support feet. This insures that all the corn possible flows down the pipe instead of under it at the bottom.

Holes were cut at three inch diameter three places around the pipe, then a few foot higher three more holes staggered from the first, as they go up they get gradually larger.

The four inch pipe from the pneumatic grain mover is also attached to the top of the stand pipe, we can end up with 57' of grain when done.


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## farmerb15722

We used the cement block and 2x6 method in our 24'x80' stave silo when we converted it to hold shelled corn so it will certainly work for a grain bin although we used the solid cement blocks as a standard block won't take 55' of grain on them.



mlappin said:


> Sheets or planks? I've seen the sheets before, but usually they were placed over tunnels in the cement floor.
> 
> We just took down a 18' bin and replaced with a larger one. It had cement block supporting the floor with 2x6 placed on top of the blocks. The help took that one down so off hand I couldn't tell you the block spacing.
> 
> We used the cement block and 2x6 method in our 24'x80' stave silo when we converted it to hold shelled corn so it will certainly work for a grain bin although we used the solid cement blocks as a standard block won't take 55' of grain on them.
> 
> DO you have anyone in the area that deals with grain handling and bin erection? They could certainly give you an ideal on spacings between the blocks and the spacing between the rows of planks.
> 
> We just erected three used 24' diameter bins this fall, a 9 ring with heat and a stirator for drying beans and a 11 and 12 ring for more dry corn storeage, added 3 new rings on the 9, 5 on the 11 and 6 new rings on the 12. Installed new floors in the 11 and 12 as what came out of them was junk. Between the three used floors in these bins we had just enough to make one up to go in the bean bin. That floor took three days of farting around to get installed while the new ones took less than a day a piece. New ones come precut and numbered these days, start at the wall and follow the chart for placing the snap in floor supports. Our 36' bin makes the 24's look tiny.
> 
> Our bin jacks are now for sale, we add any more bins and with the package deals we can have one large new one installed for what we had in the three by time we bought the cement for the foundations, two new floors, all the new added bottom rings, new walk thru doors, new ladder for the outside with safety cage and platform, new fans, new unload tubes, pipe, elbows and clamps for the pneumatic grain mover, paying for extra help etc. But we gained a lot of flexibility by adding three smaller bins instead of one large one, so for money spent I'd call it even.
> 
> I'll ask father if he remembers the block and plank spacing at all under that floor in the 18' bin.


Would like to know more about "Converting a Stave silo to store Grain" Have you had any moisture problems? Did you re cement the inside or line the walls with anything? How did you go about making holes for fans and the clean out auger.?


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