# bales look like bananas



## rlm304 (Jun 9, 2015)

I am new to small square baling and have a massey 130, My bales look like bananas. the twine do not have the same tension so it wants to deform. I need to know what adjustment to make to even the tension on the twine. I have the owners manuel , but it doesn't cover it. Please help thanks


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

In all likelihood, you don't have any problem with your twine. You are probably getting inconsistent filling of the bale chamber or you may have some hay dogs that are either stuck or have broken springs. Your manual should address both.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

I 2nd that. Especially inconsistent filling of the chamber


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Double post..... Stupid phone....


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Exactly what HiTech said - sounds like a feeder adjustment. If the inside of the banana bend is on the pickup side, the feeders are pushing the hay in too far, causing more hay to load to the back of the chamber. If the banana bend curves away from the pickup, then the feeder isn't pushing the hay far enough into the chamber. It can be a very small adjustment.


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## Bazooka (Sep 17, 2013)

8350HiTech is correct. Also, The crop you are baling can make a big difference, like grassy or straw crops are more susceptible to banana bales. Coarser crops like alfalfa and clover are less likely due to their density. Consistent windrow size, rpm's and speed are very important, and also the resistor plates or wedges in the chamber have quite a bit to do with bale shape to. Essentially they are inside the chamber where the hay is pushed to create more resistance to compact the bale more consistently. They make the inside a little smaller so that it takes more effort and hay for the plunger to shove it through, which makes a heavier bale and more consistent bale shape. They can be adjusted or added to accommodate the crop you are baling.

good luck


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## rlm304 (Jun 9, 2015)

This hay has been rained on twice and rolled in the windrow 3 times so it isn't in a nice even windrow. lots of heavy clumps, which I slow down to a crawl (hydrostat tranny) I did find a section in my manual on adjusting the packer forks which is a very easy task, I thought that maybe tightening one side to the bale tensionener may do the trick. I will bale several bales and see if they straighten up or need to adjust the packer forks. I feel its a lot better to ask questions when one isn't sure. This an old baler. A friend suggested that I slow the PTO speed down to 350 or 400 rpm I try to go by what the book says 540. Is there a big difference on PTO speed.

I am new to this site and want to give a great big thank you for those who took the time to read and reply to this post.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

If you are in lighter hay, slowing down the RPMs of the baler and/or moving to the next higher gear helps. What happens is you end up with more hay being moved through the pickup into position for the packing fork before each plunger stroke.

The only tension I know of that would be put on the twine would be where it exits the twine box. There should be a set of plates or something there to keep a little tension on the twine as it is pulled into the bale chamber. It wouldn't hurt to check this (should also be in the owners manual), but I doubt it is your problem.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

rlm304 said:


> I thought that maybe tightening one side to the bale tensionener may do the trick.


I also agree you have a material(hay) feeding problem not a twine problem. I'm not familiar with MF130 baler but tightening one side of the bale tension springs will not correct banana shaped on most balers as most bale case extensions virtually put pressure on the "center of the bale" not the sides and usually the extension have pivot points(hinges) that are 4-6 inches apart which won't allow tilting of extension.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

SwingOak said:


> Exactly what HiTech said - sounds like a feeder adjustment. If the inside of the banana bend is on the pickup side, the feeders are pushing the hay in too far, causing more hay to load to the back of the chamber. If the banana bend curves away from the pickup, then the feeder isn't pushing the hay far enough into the chamber. It can be a very small adjustment.


All good things here. Don't know much about MF, But if they are anything like Nh, I would also check the timing of the feeder forks. Before adjusting the forks.

And welcome to HT!


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

While you probably can run at low rpm in light hay, it's better to run at 540rpm all the time for several reasons, most notably for the knotter brake to function correctly. Better to increase ground speed if ground is not too rough.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

Lots of factors are involved in making a good, tight, consistent bale. Most have been mentioned above, such as windrow size, ground speed, feeder tine adjustment, bale tension, etc.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is humidity. I find it very difficult to make decent bales during the heat of the day. Try baling in the morning just after the dew has burned off or later in the evening.

One technique that some use is to count the number of strokes to make a "good" bale and try to replicate that by varying ground speed to compensate for windrow size.

Finally, I would not suggest lowering your rpm. I think it places undue stress on drive train components and if you're lucky, you will only shear a shear bolt. You need the inertia of that flywheel to pack a tight bale.


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## kiteflyingeek (May 15, 2014)

I've struggled with this on my NH 68 & my MF 124. I looked at all the things everyone else has noted. For my balers, the banana shape curved away from the cut side. So, what fixed my problem was to adjust the plunger to fixed knife spacing. When I got both balers, they weren't cutting the grass -- mainly folding it over. I even had bales stuck together since the last flake of the bale got folded over into the first flake of the next bale.

With that spacing adjusted (actually took some serious repairs), NOW I have to watch windrow size / density, adjust rpms & speed, etc. Good luck finding the issue for your bales.

--andrew


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## rlm304 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the input. I baled yesterday at 540 worked on the ground speed and most of the bales are now mostly straight, and

the hay was drier am looking forward to baling the hay that I will rake just once ahead of the baler with nice even windrow. I think that will make the bale shape even better.


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## Hodgenonprofit (Jun 12, 2015)

I've noticed with ours that if I run with the windrow away from the tractor as far as I can get away with in light grass hay it is a lot less likely to make bananas, and ours almost always makes good bales if there's enough hay to fill the pickup, works the best right before it pops the flywheel shearbolt.


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

Hay everybody, I solved the banana bales problem on my NH 270. The solution has very little to do with windrow, dogs, wedges or the feeder tines. I have tried all of those solutions with little or no results. However, this solution fixed the problem immediately.

When the plunger compresses the hay it packs the hay in the bale chamber and also packs (to some extent) the hay just outside of the bale chamber as it cuts, material still in the feeder. The feeder forks in the 270 are 7 inches away from the back wall of the feeder chamber and thus they will miss this ball of compressed hay. It will get dragged or roll into the bale chamber eventually and when it does it will make the right side (looking from the rear) of the bale longer.

I made a spring loaded flipper and attached it to the baffle in the rear of the feeder. The flipper allows the hay to compress as the plunger is cutting the hay. The flipper when compressed is within an inch of the knife. When the plunger retracts the flipper kicks the compressed hay on the outside of the bale chamber (still in the feeder) out into the path of the fingers and is pulled into the bale chamber on the next stroke. It never allows it to build up or sit in the feeder chamber.

The result when I installed this was so dramatic and immediate that there is no doubt this dead space in the feeder chamber has been the problem all along. I will take pictures and try to describe this flipper if anyone is interested.

5-7-2018,

I attached three pics to clarify. P5070001 is of the flipper in the operating position. P5070004 is of the rear of the baler showing the T-Bolt with a washer, spacer and nylon lock nut. When the baler plunger compresses the chamber the flipper compresses and the T-Bolt will protrude out the back of the baler. P5070009 is of the flipper with the nylon locking nut removed and the flipper folded forward to show how the T-Bolt, bearings and bronze spacers are installed.

The hardest part of the installation is drilling the through hole for the T-Bolt to pass through. It is pure trial and error, if you look closely you can see a small pilot hole I drilled in an effort to find the T-Bolt position.

Good luck with it.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Do you have a picture of your flipper? Some NH balers had a false feeder back that could be pushed in to do basically what you have done.


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

I can get a pic tomorrow. Mine has the false feeder back, I mounted this flipper on the end of it between it and the stationary knife. This false back as you call it creates a dead area between it and the fixed knife. Removing the false back did not improve the banana bales though. There is just to much room between the back of the feeder box and the fingers (about 7 inches). The compressed ball or wad of hay just lays in the back of the feeder chamber until it gets caught by a slug of hay. When it gets pulled into the bale chamber it just lays on the right side (looking from the rear) and makes that side of the bale longer with more material. The flipper kicks this wad of hay out in front of the fingers which then pulls it into the bale chamber and distributes it properly.

I was absolutely amazed at the difference in the bales without making any other adjustment. I will post a picture tomorrow evening.


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

Attached are the pictures of the flipper I made. The bend you see is intentional, I wanted it to compress flat to the back wall of the feeder chamber. The baffle I mounted it to is on an angle to the back wall so the bend is made to accommodate the difference. You can see the piano hinge I welded to the flipper and used to attach the flipper to the baffle. You can also see four bolt heads in the flipper that are the mounting bolts for the pillow block bearings that support the T-shaped bolt with the compression spring which allows the flipper to compress when the plunger compresses the hay and cuts it. After the material is cut the flipper extends pushing the material out in front of the forks which carry it into the bale chamber on the next stroke.

Works GREAT!!!!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I can see where this would eliminate half slices caused be incoming hay hitting the bale and peeling some of the bale back to the other side.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I really like your idea it looks like it will work good but my question is what kind of spring do you have in there


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## InterLake (Nov 28, 2012)

Rockmart GA suggested counting plunger strokes pere bale to help in finding a good speed to feed the baler properly. I do this occasionally. (It's easier with the old 24T than the less old 346.) I have a helper who doesn't bother to do this. That means I pick up some bales with a few 5 or 6 inch slices. They are miserable, uneven, hard to handle and easy to break.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

IMHO - if you have good windrows and you are getting banana bales, a few things to check.

1. Make sure the spring loaded hay dogs in the bale chamber - the springs are not weak or broken.

2. Make sure the plunger knife is sharp and within about 1/32 of the stationary knife.

3. Run the baler at 540 PTO rpms. This puts the full potential/kinetic energy of the flywheel to your benefit.

4. You have a manual - if not, get one.

5. Make sure the twine tension coming out of the twine box is set correctly - see manual.

6. If you are still having banana bales, IMHO, it simply boils down to not getting enough hay to one side or the other in the bale chamber and your feeder forks need adjusted - see manual.

Good luck,

Bill


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> 5. Make sure the twine tension coming out of the twine box is set correctly - see manual.
> 
> 6. If you are still having banana bales, IMHO, it simply boils down to not getting enough hay to one side or the other in the bale chamber and your feeder forks need adjusted - see manual.
> 
> ...


Bill

I see no way twine tension can have an affect on bale shape. Can you please explain how adjusting twine tension can help stop banana shape bales?.

Thanks,Jim


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Bill
> I see no way twine tension can have an affect on bale shape. Can you please explain how adjusting twine tension can help stop banana shape bales?.
> Thanks,Jim


The thought is - if the twine tension out of the twine box is loose, and assuming knotter could/would accept loose twine from the needles and still tie properly, as the bale is formed and flakes of hay are pounded down the bale chamber, IMHO it is possible that the sudden jerking motion of the bale being pushed forward could pull some slack, maybe a few inches, and after the bale is tied, knots cut - as the bale exits the bale chamber, expanding into the strings, if ithe string is somewhat loose from the get-go, than that additional length could find its way to one side of the bale and cause some of the banana shape as one string is longer than the other.

Maybe not.

Certainly not relying on the twine tension out of the twine box for any physical tightness of the bale - just if its loose, more slack potential and with it a longer string on one side vs the other and a banana shape.

Bill


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> The thought is - if the twine tension out of the twine box is loose, and assuming knotter could/would accept loose twine from the needles and still tie properly, as the bale is formed and flakes of hay are pounded down the bale chamber, IMHO it is possible that the sudden jerking motion of the bale being pushed forward could pull some slack, maybe a few inches, and after the bale is tied, knots cut - as the bale exits the bale chamber, expanding into the strings, if ithe string is somewhat loose from the get-go, than that additional length could find its way to one side of the bale and cause some of the banana shape as one string is longer than the other.
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
> ...


I'd have to witness your scenario of loose twine affecting shape of bale to believe it.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Kenanselm,you have done a real good job of engineering this idea,I am going to try and make one myself,I guess this is why the old NH 77 baler always made good bales because when the plunger sliced the hay the hay left behind fell back down into the chamber,I guess like the inlines. Got to give you credit you have found a good simple cure. Thanks


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

If one side of the twine is looser than the other when the bale leaves the chamber and expands it will make a banana bale. Not as much as improper feeding into the bale chamber but it does have an effect.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

SwingOak said:


> If one side of the twine is looser than the other when the bale leaves the chamber and expands it will make a banana bale. Not as much as improper feeding into the bale chamber but it does have an effect.


 I've been operating/repairing sq bales since the mid 1960's and I'd have to see loose twine tension cause a banana shape on a correctly formed bale BUT I have a lot more experience with wire than twine balers. IMHO low twine tension would cause a miss tied bale not banana shaped. I don't see twine tension mentioned in trouble shooting banana shaped bales in JD OM. Oh well that's why these forums are called "discussion forums".

Correction: I just reread instructions from OM and it mentions "adjusting twine tension" but it's under heading of adjusting bale tension


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I posed this question to Dad earlier today TX Jim. He has baled at least a million bales in his life, no joke. He said twine tension out of the box could not DIRECTLY affect bale shape, but with the other issues that it causes, may be linked to shape. You would have many more problems baling besides banana bales.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

I agree with TxJim on this one the twine tension will not effect bale shape and if you get the tension too tight you will have knotter troubles and I also agree with TxJim about tightening the cranks tightening one side will not effect it,I have heard this one all my life but it only puts tension on the middle,if you notice most tying problems are on the right side because that side is always a little tighter or a little longer on the knife side it is just the way it is on the side feed balers but the other post had a good idea on how to fix it,they needed to design the fingers closer to the stationary knife to pickup that bit of hay left behind when the knifes slice the hay,but they are engineers and they know more than we do


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

If the twine is looser on one side than the other I.e. the loop of twine is longer on one side than the other then the bale will expand on one side more than the other. I found this to be the case with the s68 I have after I corrected the feeding situation. It is not as huge a banana as with improper feeding but the bale does get a curved shape. When I balanced the twine tension the problem went away. It's just my experience and thought I'd share it.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Swingoak

Are you stating you tightened twine tension and immediately the bales got more uniform in shape?? I guess you didn't take any before & after photos.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I'm saying when the plunger forces the hay in the chamber and the tension is too light the twine gets a bit of slack in it and forms a looser loop on that side when it ties. If twine tension was not important there wouldn't be adjustable tensioners on the baler.

I should also state that I have found twine tension is nowhere near as critical on the JD baler I have than it is on the 1958 NH s68.

I'm not here to argue and I don't appreciate being called a liar.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

Bales that look like bananas can be fixed, however if you bale for too many days in a row bananas start to look like bales. That can't be fixed.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

rlm304 said:


> Thanks for all the input. I baled yesterday at 540 worked on the ground speed and most of the bales are now mostly straight, and
> 
> the hay was drier am looking forward to baling the hay that I will rake just once ahead of the baler with nice even windrow. I think that will make the bale shape even better.


Wet Hay creates Havoc on every spectrum !!!!!!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

SwingOak said:


> I'm saying when the plunger forces the hay in the chamber and the tension is too light the twine gets a bit of slack in it and forms a looser loop on that side when it ties. If twine tension was not important there wouldn't be adjustable tensioners on the baler.
> 
> I should also state that I have found twine tension is nowhere near as critical on the JD baler I have than it is on the 1958 NH s68.
> 
> I'm not here to argue and I don't appreciate being called a liar.


1st off I didn't call you a liar but merely asked you a QUESTION!! 2nd correct twine tension is important as it's utilized for correct forming of the knot


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

nhbaler282, sorry for the delay in responding. Below is a list of parts purchased from McMaster Carr. The two sleeve bearings are used to keep the T-Bolt spaced properly between the two pillow block bearings. The T-Bolt comes with a collar that is not used. I also used two flat washers on either side of the sheet metal of the baler and a locking nut on the outside of the feeder chamber to keep the spring and T-Bolt in place.

1 ea. 91660A150 Low-Strength Steel T-Handle Bolt with Collar 3/8" x 16 threads, 5" overall Length

1 ea. 15665A306 Unfinished Steel Piano Hinge w/o holes .060" Thk., 2 1/2"W, 1' L, 3/16" Pin Dia, 1/2" L Knuckle

2 ea. 5912K4 Oil-Embedded Mounted Sleeve Bearing for 1/2" Shaft Dia.

2 ea. 6381K47 Multi purpose Sleeve Bearing SAE 660 TIN Brnz, for 1/2" Shaft Dia., 5/8 OD, 3/4" Lg.

1 ea. 9657K453 Steel Compression Spring Zinc-Pltd Music Wire 3.50" L., .720" OD, .085" Wire, Pack of 6

I have been using this flipper in my NH 270 baler all summer and it has corrected the banana bale issue in all types of hay without making any other adjustments between operations. There is no doubt in my mind it solved the problem, I have had 100% straight bales ever since installing it. When summer is over and I can remove the flipper and get better pictures front and back I will.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for that information kenanselm,I am currently working on one of mine to see if I can make it work and it makes good sense that it will work. Thanks


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

nhbaler282, Hope it works for you. The only issue I had installing it was drilling the hole in the back of the feeder chamber for the T-bolt to pass through. To find the location I made a good guess and drilled a very small hole to sight through and adjusted from there. Also it took some trial and error to get the bend correct, you want it to fold back against the back of the feeder chamber when the plunger compresses the hay.

Let me know if this works for you, it would be great to have this idea independently verified.


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## nhbaler282 (Oct 5, 2009)

Kenanselm,I made one of those flappers and put it on my 1282 self propelled baler so I could watch it and it does bring the hay out so the fingers can pick it up better and mine does not have the false back like yours does,and yes I do see some difference and I do believe it does help some,my bales arent bananas but they arent perfect where you can put a square on each one and it be perfect but they handle good,so I do believe it has helped a lot


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

nhbaler282

I am glad to hear it, my flipper is still working great. It does not seem to matter how big or small the windrow or what type of hay. I never have to make any adjustments other than minor bale tension, just go from field to field.


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