# Demand for small bales



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I never thought I'd see the day but locally here at the hay auctions three by three big squares hay for hay, sell for the same price a small squares. I was at several auctions recently were big squares outsold small squares. It's an easy comparison when all hay is sold by the ton like the balk of it is in this neck of the woods


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Might be due to poor demand in your area according to member reports.

Regards, Mike


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Soft market all around, here. Can't sell rounds or bigs locally. Demand is low and will be in the short term. Flip side is weather effects have limited supply of quality. Premium smalls holding their price and cow quality rounds basically worthless.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Yup, its bad here... Dad says to me the other day "When are you going to start selling hay?"...Its not like I am not trying...


----------



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

For me - quality, tested hay sold this year. I could have sold another 1,000 or more bales (small squares) if I had it. Timothy and Timothy mixed grass hay.

Still there is a lot of squares out there masquerading as "horse quality" hay.....


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I guess the other point I was making what it amazed me to see in the past year the guys that baled big squares could get just as much the guys that baled small squares per ton . Now that is at hay auction . It appears the Amish and larger horse people don't even want small squares anymore because they are set up for big bales .Monday at the hay auction 88 loads and any thing super high quality ( and they use no forage tests)$215 to $340. Anything average quality or less could hardly get a bid .


----------



## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I feel there is just to much okay hay around. Why pay good money for one ton of hay when you can get two ton medium quality plus grain is cheap enough to supplement low quality hay.


----------



## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

endrow said:


> I guess the other point I was making what it amazed me to see in the past year the guys that baled big squares could get just as much the guys that baled small squares per ton . Now that is at hay auction . It appears the Amish and larger horse people don't even want small squares anymore because they are set up for big bales .Monday at the hay auction 88 loads and any thing super high quality ( and they use no forage tests)$215 to $340. Anything average quality or less could hardly get a bid .


I was pushing the pencil around the other day. I noticed that small squares were trending lower year after year for the last 4 years. This is my area. The extra labor involved in small squares doesn't offset the efficiency of a round baler any longer. This is my area. 3x3 are quickly becoming the new small square. Doesn't really hurt my feeling as chasing labor sucks


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

We use a krone 870 multibale. This gives us a bale 31.5 inches wide and 27.5 inches high and up to 9 ft long. In good quality hay we bale to 8ft long and 485lb with 7 small bales in each big one. This gives us the best of both worlds. We can bale 2 smalls in the one 8ft for those who like 4x3 rounds as the still go in the feeders. The reason why the 485lb is its equal to 10 small squares so makes it easy for customers to work out price per small bale and makes the small one in the bale easy to handle. For bulk we can increase weight to 880lb to get more in shed or on trucks. Works well for us.


----------



## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I will agree small square bales are becoming more of a niche market.


----------



## F350-6 (Mar 30, 2014)

As the population grows around here, and folks seem to get more lazy in general, the trend of switching to small rounds has been going on for several years around these parts. I sold my 5x6 round baler and got a little 4x5 round baler a few years ago because I couldn't find enough people willing to pay extra for the larger rounds.

I even tried introductory pricing and had folks tell my how much they liked my bales better because they lasted longer. I tried buying some 4 x 5 bales and baling up some 5 x 5 bales to show the volume of hay when comparing 4 to 5 bales, and still couldn't make it sink in. So I got a little Vermeer baler and haven't looked back. Selling by weight, I think I'm actually ahead of the game this way compared to large rounds. Small squares are getting really hard to sell around here other than 2 or 3 at a time unless you get really dirt cheap on them.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Small squares always bring a good premium here over rounds. Large squares are non existent here. The hay market in general isn't very strong here this year. Weather conditions have made for an over abundance of mature and/or rained on hay. Premium quality squares are always In high demand and bring a premium price. Anything less than premium is going to be a tough sale......which I have plenty of. I really hate to say it but a colder than average winter would really be beneficial for hay sales. Last winter was very mild and despite drought conditions hay sales were off all winter. I would say my retail hay sales were and have been off by 50%.


----------



## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

The 3x3 is becoming more popular. Probably because the smaller farmers and horsey people can move an ~800lb bale with a compact tractor, and the flakes/slices are easier to manage. It might not seem like much of a difference, but my wife doesn't mind feeding 3x3's to our sheep and goats, and hates 4x4's.


----------



## Dadnatron (Jul 24, 2017)

Bremerside Prime Aus said:


> We use a krone 870 multibale. This gives us a bale 31.5 inches wide and 27.5 inches high and up to 9 ft long. In good quality hay we bale to 8ft long and 485lb with 7 small bales in each big one. This gives us the best of both worlds. We can bale 2 smalls in the one 8ft for those who like 4x3 rounds as the still go in the feeders. The reason why the 485lb is its equal to 10 small squares so makes it easy for customers to work out price per small bale and makes the small one in the bale easy to handle. For bulk we can increase weight to 880lb to get more in shed or on trucks. Works well for us.


I had never hear nor seen this type of baler. I wish it wasn't so damned expensive, because I suspect that would be a big seller in my area. I am surprised it isn't sold to more horse farms in this way. Most use tractors to move hay, but like the convenience of small bales to actually move it into stalls. I could take a single big bale to the barn and the whole thing could be fed easily from that bale.

The issue with 'Rounds' in a horse barn feeding scenario is that it is difficult to get the hay off the roll. I know there are 'ways' however, I have NEVER seen a horse barn in the Lexington area, which is really equipped for rolls. I've seen a few farms try to feed from them, but inevitably the grooms have a tough time and the managers gripe about them all the time.

Baling with the Multibale would solve a HUGE number of problems in established horse barns. But the buyer needs to be educated. I've been in most of the major barns in the Lexington KY area, and I guarantee I've never seen such a bale being fed. Design a 'multi-bale fork' to move it from the storage shed to the barn, that can be towed by a UTV and that farm will be set and you will have a setup for good quality hay being consistently sold.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Bishop said:


> The 3x3 is becoming more popular. Probably because the smaller farmers and horsey people can move an ~800lb bale with a compact tractor, and the flakes/slices are easier to manage. It might not seem like much of a difference, but my wife doesn't mind feeding 3x3's to our sheep and goats, and hates 4x4's.


3x3 bales sell for more per ton here then a 3x4 or 4x4. Case in point. A neighbor has a 4x4 baler. He bales grass hay and sells them for $100 a bale. They weigh probably about 1700. He stores it outside, but that's ok. I sell my 3x3 740 pound bales for $85 a bale. He has a hard time selling his 4x4s for even $100. People just can't handle them. They can barely handle a 3x3, but you can push or pull those around by hand sometimes. Makes me wonder if a 500 pound 2x3 would sell well. Or even just do a 3x3x4 bale. Though getting them out of the field would be interesting.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Dadnatron said:


> I had never hear nor seen this type of baler. I wish it wasn't so damned expensive, because I suspect that would be a big seller in my area. I am surprised it isn't sold to more horse farms in this way. Most use tractors to move hay, but like the convenience of small bales to actually move it into stalls. I could take a single big bale to the barn and the whole thing could be fed easily from that bale.
> 
> The issue with 'Rounds' in a horse barn feeding scenario is that it is difficult to get the hay off the roll. I know there are 'ways' however, I have NEVER seen a horse barn in the Lexington area, which is really equipped for rolls. I've seen a few farms try to feed from them, but inevitably the grooms have a tough time and the managers gripe about them all the time.
> 
> Baling with the Multibale would solve a HUGE number of problems in established horse barns. But the buyer needs to be educated. I've been in most of the major barns in the Lexington KY area, and I guarantee I've never seen such a bale being fed. Design a 'multi-bale fork' to move it from the storage shed to the barn, that can be towed by a UTV and that farm will be set and you will have a setup for good quality hay being consistently sold.


We've gone over this baler a few times on this forum. I don't think it would make a guy any extra money here. The small bales are too large still and flake the wrong way for what small bale buyers really want.


----------



## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Pretty interesting concept that Krone is... But the entry cost is even more breathtaking!

I'd have to guess that the service tech would come with a Phd. after his name, too!


----------



## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

If you have good qaulity hay it will sell. We got lucky this year, had most 1st cutting done by july 4th. 3 weeks later than last year, but still not overly mature. We will sell out. Our few fields of 1st that were too mature, we baled for our beef cattle. Some of our neighbors that sell hay were just doing 1st cutting in mid August, it was the first they were able to get on the fields. 
Qaulity smalls are going to move fast this year, everything else will be going dirt cheap to move it.


----------



## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Northeast PA hay and beef said:


> Qaulity smalls are going to move fast this year, everything else will be going dirt cheap to move it.


I'll bet there's a few cow-calf folks stretching from Montana, Wyoming, and North Dakota that might be real interested in that "dirt cheap" hay!


----------



## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

That Krone baler weighs 19000 lbs too.. need a 200hp tractor to run it.. never happen here in NewEngland.
Rounds are a pain to handle in a barn environment for sure, average price here for a small square is $6 first cut and $7-8 for second.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Teslan said:


> We've gone over this baler a few times on this forum. I don't think it would make a guy any extra money here. The small bales are too large still and flake the wrong way for what small bale buyers really want.


Interesting comments about the krone multibale. Im not sure how small you need your small bales but our multibales are about 66lb each and they are shaped not umlike a suitcase. If you are not strong enough to lift 65lb ie lots of young girls feed horses, they are ideal for a trolley to lift and move which means there is no lifting at all. If you dont have a trolley or the ground is uneven or there are steps involved it is simple to make up a bar like bicycle handlebars and weld rams horns under them so they slip under the strings then 2 girls or children can carry the bale easily around. The young girls or kids even find the conventional small squares hard to lift as they are around 60lb anyway so not sure why you think 66lb is too much Marc?
By the shape of the multibales also you dont need to bend near as much as they are 27.5 inches high not 14 inches high as a small bale is. As for flakes being the wrong way they are actually easier than a conventional bale because when you get where you are going you lay it down on its flat and lift off whatever size flake you want.
You make some interesting comments about cost of the baler also. They are not cheap but you are not buying one normal baler. What you are buying is one large square baler with very high density useful for storing and transporting large quantities of hay most economically. The best pickup on the market with no cam. It can chaff the hay as you bale so you can engage all the knives in the centre of the bale and leave the outer 4 or 5 inches uncut so you dont lose too much. It takes the moisture of every bale. It weighs every bale and marks where that bale is in the paddock with gps and can tag every bale for export. It is three small square balers with accumulators. It is a round baler without all the disadvantages of a round baler ie teansporting, stacking in a shed, stopping every bale to wrap bit it can make 2 or 3 small bales in the big bale so they can be rolled around and put into existing round bale feeders. You are saving 2 extra people every time you bale because they easily bale 3 times what a small baler will bale every hour. And last but not least the computer system is second to none. I can start baling in a 30 acre alfalfa paddock and have a customer called john that has ordered the equivalent of 400 small squares so i put that order into the computer for 40 bales each weighing 485lbs. I start baling and my wife takes a call for a customer Jeff who wants the equivalent if 40 4x3 small round bales. She enters this in the computer at home in the queue for 20 large squares with 2 small bales in each weighing 485lbs. She then takes another call from the feedlot and Greg says he will take 65 bales bulk at 880lb each. She now puts this in the computer and it goes in the queue. Qhen the baler finishes the first order for john it automatically makes the adjustments for jeffs order as i am driving until it finishes then starts on Gregs order. As i am baling the gps marks every bale in the paddock as to whos order it is so when we are picking them up we know whos order it is. So if you add up all that this baler is, a large high density square baler, 3 small square balers and accumulators, a round baler, 2 extra men, and a magic computer and bale tracking system i think they are very cheap. 
When doing the 7 small bales in each large one i have to slow down a bit but still do the equivalent of 30 small bales per minute. In our area where we bale as the dew comes in some nights you can get as little as two hours baling from too dry to too moist. So if i had a small baler i would get maybe 1000 bales done. Leaving 2000 not done. In summer we can get storms come through early hours of the morning and get an inch of rain. If i lose those 2000 bales that is $20,000 i have lost plus more raking and damaging the next crop to get the old hay out of there.
Now here is an important point. I am NOT a Krone salesman just a farmer who has learnt the hard way you have to spend money to make money. I can bale the equivalent of 1000 small squares of alfalfa. Pick them up cart them to the shed about half a mile away on a hay trailer and stack them all in the shed my myself in 4 hours. Thats all the reasons why i have this baler.
If anyone has any other questions please feel free to ask.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Dadnatron said:


> I had never hear nor seen this type of baler. I wish it wasn't so damned expensive, because I suspect that would be a big seller in my area. I am surprised it isn't sold to more horse farms in this way. Most use tractors to move hay, but like the convenience of small bales to actually move it into stalls. I could take a single big bale to the barn and the whole thing could be fed easily from that bale.
> 
> The issue with 'Rounds' in a horse barn feeding scenario is that it is difficult to get the hay off the roll. I know there are 'ways' however, I have NEVER seen a horse barn in the Lexington area, which is really equipped for rolls. I've seen a few farms try to feed from them, but inevitably the grooms have a tough time and the managers gripe about them all the time.
> 
> Baling with the Multibale would solve a HUGE number of problems in established horse barns. But the buyer needs to be educated. I've been in most of the major barns in the Lexington KY area, and I guarantee I've never seen such a bale being fed. Design a 'multi-bale fork' to move it from the storage shed to the barn, that can be towed by a UTV and that farm will be set and you will have a setup for good quality hay being consistently sold.


Interesting point about the multibale fork for the UTV Dadnatron. Do you mean one to transport the whole large bale or the small multibales. The multibales weigh 66lbs each so easily can be lifted on the carry racks of a UTV or a small trailer.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

skyrydr2 said:


> That Krone baler weighs 19000 lbs too.. need a 200hp tractor to run it.. never happen here in NewEngland.
> Rounds are a pain to handle in a barn environment for sure, average price here for a small square is $6 first cut and $7-8 for second.


Skyrydr they do weigh that much but you can drive it with a 140hp tractor doing multibales at lower density at 480lb. It works harder baling to 880lb and extra hard if you have choppers going you either need more hp or slow down. But you have the equivalent of 3 tractors 3 small square balers and 3 accumulators so the weight is not a big issue. Ours is on 2 axles with 4 large high flotation tyres with steer axle. We can work in fields up to 15km hr and turn reasonably tight without tearing up the paddock so the weight doesnt seem to be an issue. They also have brakes for on the road.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I had thought the small bales from the multibaler weighed about 100 pounds? I had thought someone had commented that. I haven't seen one in person. Krone isn't a big seller here of balers. The high cost is to be expected. I still don't know about the flakes. I would have to see one in person. Horsey people don't like change.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Bremerside Prime Aus said:


> Interesting comments about the krone multibale. Im not sure how small you need your small bales but our multibales are about 66lb each and they are shaped not umlike a suitcase. If you are not strong enough to lift 65lb ie lots of young girls feed horses, they are ideal for a trolley to lift and move which means there is no lifting at all. If you dont have a trolley or the ground is uneven or there are steps involved it is simple to make up a bar like bicycle handlebars and weld rams horns under them so they slip under the strings then 2 girls or children can carry the bale easily around. The young girls or kids even find the conventional small squares hard to lift as they are around 60lb anyway so not sure why you think 66lb is too much Marc?
> By the shape of the multibales also you dont need to bend near as much as they are 27.5 inches high not 14 inches high as a small bale is. As for flakes being the wrong way they are actually easier than a conventional bale because when you get where you are going you lay it down on its flat and lift off whatever size flake you want.
> You make some interesting comments about cost of the baler also. They are not cheap but you are not buying one normal baler. What you are buying is one large square baler with very high density useful for storing and transporting large quantities of hay most economically. The best pickup on the market with no cam. It can chaff the hay as you bale so you can engage all the knives in the centre of the bale and leave the outer 4 or 5 inches uncut so you dont lose too much. It takes the moisture of every bale. It weighs every bale and marks where that bale is in the paddock with gps and can tag every bale for export. It is three small square balers with accumulators. It is a round baler without all the disadvantages of a round baler ie teansporting, stacking in a shed, stopping every bale to wrap bit it can make 2 or 3 small bales in the big bale so they can be rolled around and put into existing round bale feeders. You are saving 2 extra people every time you bale because they easily bale 3 times what a small baler will bale every hour. And last but not least the computer system is second to none. I can start baling in a 30 acre alfalfa paddock and have a customer called john that has ordered the equivalent of 400 small squares so i put that order into the computer for 40 bales each weighing 485lbs. I start baling and my wife takes a call for a customer Jeff who wants the equivalent if 40 4x3 small round bales. She enters this in the computer at home in the queue for 20 large squares with 2 small bales in each weighing 485lbs. She then takes another call from the feedlot and Greg says he will take 65 bales bulk at 880lb each. She now puts this in the computer and it goes in the queue. Qhen the baler finishes the first order for john it automatically makes the adjustments for jeffs order as i am driving until it finishes then starts on Gregs order. As i am baling the gps marks every bale in the paddock as to whos order it is so when we are picking them up we know whos order it is. So if you add up all that this baler is, a large high density square baler, 3 small square balers and accumulators, a round baler, 2 extra men, and a magic computer and bale tracking system i think they are very cheap.
> When doing the 7 small bales in each large one i have to slow down a bit but still do the equivalent of 30 small bales per minute. In our area where we bale as the dew comes in some nights you can get as little as two hours baling from too dry to too moist. So if i had a small baler i would get maybe 1000 bales done. Leaving 2000 not done. In summer we can get storms come through early hours of the morning and get an inch of rain. If i lose those 2000 bales that is $20,000 i have lost plus more raking and damaging the next crop to get the old hay out of there.
> ...


How exactly does it "mark bales in the paddock"?


----------



## Dadnatron (Jul 24, 2017)

Bremerside Prime Aus said:


> Interesting point about the multibale fork for the UTV Dadnatron. Do you mean one to transport the whole large bale or the small multibales. The multibales weigh 66lbs each so easily can be lifted on the carry racks of a UTV or a small trailer.


I envision a fork of some sort on 2 wheels, likely, which can be attached to the UTV. (Every farm in this area has them and they are the primary transport around the farm for the workers.) A larger UTV would then take the fork to the hay shed. (About half of the hay in the area is in the loft and the other half in a completely separate shed from the barn.) The UTV would back up to a large bale in its intact form, and get it just off the ground, either via electrohydraulic or mechanical means of some sort. It just needs to be 'rollable' not lift more than a few inches, just to tow it to the correct barn. Then, it is dropped in the middle of the aisle, binding strings cut, and smaller bales placed on a dolly and taken to the needed stalls.

Each barn has between 8 and 30 stalls typically. So this would save a significant amount of work for the grooms. And with the cost of medical care and injuries to your workers, most farms are always looking for ways to improve this area.

But, as in MY personal case, I and/or my wife, could do the same. She could do all this without ever actually lifting a bale from the ground. Moving a single bale into the barn, and using a dolly *hand cart* she would be able to feed 800lbs of hay without lifting more than a flake.

At least that's how I would use it.

As far as the thought that 'people wouldn't pay more' ... I don't know that I agree. On the surface, I understand the thought, however, the reality is that it takes ONE trip to the Doctor because of a preventable injury, being laid up for 3 weeks, requiring someone else to be paid to do the work during that time, to make up for a significant cost premium on an alternative and potentially much easier, way of feeding.

I remember when big round bales came out... no one wanted them. They were 'foreign' and given how people fed, 'just wouldn't work'.

Sometimes I agree wholeheartedly with Steve Jobs... "_A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."_


----------



## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

New England, here in the US is soft small fields mostly. A 30 acre field is a really good sized field.. if you can find one. 
I wish I could use something like that. 
I really am puzzeled why it hasn't caught on out west, but as others have said.. "change" its scarey to most stubborn Americans... I see it every day at work and it saddens me to see so many people reluctant to the future..


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Google "atv round bale mover". It's been invented.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

somedevildawg said:


> How exactly does it "mark bales in the paddock"?


As each bale comes out of the chamber onto the slide it momentarily holds it while it weighs it then the next bale pushes it along. As it rolls down the slide it takes the gps location and marks it on a map on the screen. Not unlike yield mapping etc on the jd greenstar system.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Dadnatron said:


> I envision a fork of some sort on 2 wheels, likely, which can be attached to the UTV. (Every farm in this area has them and they are the primary transport around the farm for the workers.) A larger UTV would then take the fork to the hay shed. (About half of the hay in the area is in the loft and the other half in a completely separate shed from the barn.) The UTV would back up to a large bale in its intact form, and get it just off the ground, either via electrohydraulic or mechanical means of some sort. It just needs to be 'rollable' not lift more than a few inches, just to tow it to the correct barn. Then, it is dropped in the middle of the aisle, binding strings cut, and smaller bales placed on a dolly and taken to the needed stalls.
> 
> Each barn has between 8 and 30 stalls typically. So this would save a significant amount of work for the grooms. And with the cost of medical care and injuries to your workers, most farms are always looking for ways to improve this area.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with everyrhing you say dadnatron. Would these large horse farms not have a skid steer loader or smallish tractor to move the bales around?
I agree with the need for the attachment you describe though as we have some small customers that dont have a tractor but almost all have a UTV. I will work on that one. Its all about making it easy for people really isnt it. If we make it easy they will buy it or use it.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Teslan said:


> I had thought the small bales from the multibaler weighed about 100 pounds? I had thought someone had commented that. I haven't seen one in person. Krone isn't a big seller here of balers. The high cost is to be expected. I still don't know about the flakes. I would have to see one in person. Horsey people don't like change.


most of our previous conversations have been on the 1270, this is an 870, newer and smaller.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

skyrydr2 said:


> New England, here in the US is soft small fields mostly. A 30 acre field is a really good sized field.. if you can find one.
> I wish I could use something like that.
> I really am puzzeled why it hasn't caught on out west, but as others have said.. "change" its scarey to most stubborn Americans... I see it every day at work and it saddens me to see so many people reluctant to the future..


Hi skyrydr. I think judging by the comments on here a lot of people dont really know about this baler or what it can do. Krone did make a 1270 multibale several years earlier and its bales were 4ft wide and 2ft 4inch high and the multibales were around 200lb so way too heavy. This did a lot of damage to their reputation but the 870 is a much smaller bale chamber. Over here there are paddocks that are 60 acres under centre pivot and 4 or 5 of them. We normally cut about 30 acres at a time as its a good size to rake each morning while the dew is on and easy to get all baled at night when the moisture is right. Plus if you get the weather wrong its only 30 acres you have to fix.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

skyrydr2 said:


> New England, here in the US is soft small fields mostly. A 30 acre field is a really good sized field.. if you can find one.
> I wish I could use something like that.
> I really am puzzeled why it hasn't caught on out west, but as others have said.. "change" its scarey to most stubborn Americans... I see it every day at work and it saddens me to see so many people reluctant to the future..


I don't think Krone has really made a push to be a presence out west. I have yet to see a Krone baler in this area. We have two Krone dealers within 50 miles of me, but as far as I know one doesn't want to sell Krone balers or Krone rakes due to a conversation I had with them a few years ago. The other one I bought a Krone rake from. They sell the balers I think. I told the owner of our former NH and Case IH dealer he should look into Krone if he wants another line of equipment. He just sells Kubota now.

When I went from small squares to 3x3s most of my customers came along with me. Two bigger ones didn't and I could never understand why as both have adequate loader tractors and could easily buy a bucket attachment fork at the least. Other customers came along with me and are now really happy I went to 3x3s. Especially the older customers that were tired of small squares.

As for the cost of going from small squares to even the Krone Multibaler or any larger square baler is considerable. I would say if you didn't have a tractor of at least 140 pto hp already that to get a baler and tractor that wouldn't be having lots of repairs you would be looking around $100k. Especially if you weren't mechanically inclined. Then you have to have some way of getting the bales out of the field. So if you didn't have that there is more money.

Edited: Some of the reason small square bale buyers don't change to bigger bales isn't about the way to move them, but the way to store them. I had one customer have to enlarge his door to get the 3x3s inside his hay storage. Many people aren't willing to do that. Like I had a large small square customer once in the ritzy part of Denver. She would buy 1500 bales a year. They would all go into a loft. So her help could just drop the hay down to the stalls below. I don't know what this barn looked like as I never went there. She is one that wouldn't go to big squares of multi bale or anything. She had to pay extra to have hay delivered for the guys to take bales one by one up the stairs. Maybe she has changed by now. She quite buying when she all of a sudden wanted Timothy hay. I don't/can't grow it. Especially at a moments notice.


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Teslan said:


> I don't think Krone has really made a push to be a presence out west. I have yet to see a Krone baler in this area. We have two Krone dealers within 50 miles of me, but as far as I know one doesn't want to sell Krone balers or Krone rakes due to a conversation I had with them a few years ago. The other one I bought a Krone rake from. They sell the balers I think. I told the owner of our former NH and Case IH dealer he should look into Krone if he wants another line of equipment. He just sells Kubota now.
> 
> When I went from small squares to 3x3s most of my customers came along with me. Two bigger ones didn't and I could never understand why as both have adequate loader tractors and could easily buy a bucket attachment fork at the least. Other customers came along with me and are now really happy I went to 3x3s. Especially the older customers that were tired of small squares.
> 
> As for the cost of going from small squares to even the Krone Multibaler or any larger square baler is considerable. I would say if you didn't have a tractor of at least 140 pto hp already that to get a baler and tractor that wouldn't be having lots of repairs you would be looking around $100k. Especially if you weren't mechanically inclined. Then you have to have some way of getting the bales out of the field. So if you didn't have that there is more money.


Hi teslan, there are certainly not a baler you would buy if you only do 5000 bales per year. That would be like someone who has 30 acres having a 300hp quad trac. Would be nice but bit of overkill. They are for a contractor or large haymaker with high value hay ie that people would normally buy in small squares, and or export as they can produce very dense heavy bales that fit perfectly into shipping containers.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Bremerside Prime Aus said:


> Hi teslan, there are certainly not a baler you would buy if you only do 5000 bales per year. That would be like someone who has 30 acres having a 300hp quad trac. Would be nice but bit of overkill. They are for a contractor or large haymaker with high value hay ie that people would normally buy in small squares, and or export as they can produce very dense heavy bales that fit perfectly into shipping containers.


Sure. In a few years when my 3x3 baler gets enough bales through it to merit considering another big square I would be willing to look at a Krone multibaler if any dealer around is willing to sell one or even have one. I just don't know if I could charge more for that type of bale vs. a standard 3x3 to merit the probable extra cost of a multibaler. Maybe it would be one of those things that you would have to spend a few seasons getting buyers used to the benefits. I'm not that big of an operation and not much of a desire to grow larger. But certainly bigger then a 5000 a year small bale producer. I do about 4000 3x3 bales a year. I guess that would equate to about 52k small squares. Very little custom work. It would probably be cheaper to have it custom baled and stacked, but then I would pay the price with rained on hay or alfalfa baled to dry due to custom operators not getting to it at the right time.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The barns are the issue here too, they are all built with overhead storage for small squares. Once in a while a riding arena but they don't like storing hay in them as the dust from riding settles on the hay.


----------



## Dadnatron (Jul 24, 2017)

slowzuki said:


> The barns are the issue here too, they are all built with overhead storage for small squares. Once in a while a riding arena but they don't like storing hay in them as the dust from riding settles on the hay.


Most places are moving away from 'loft' style storage. The reason is a significantly increased fire risk. We won't store hay in the same barn in which we have horses. There are a lot who still do, but I think that would change if there were better alternatives, such as Multibale. Remember, as is, current options are store hay elsewhere, and someone has to grab 6-10 bales, load a trailer/truck, haul them to the barn, then unload and feed. OR, grab a large round, haul it to the barn, and try to unroll/fight it to a form that can go in a stall.

With a Multibale, which I had not heard about before this thread, it would allow 1 person to grab the needed days hay, take it to the barn, break it up easily, move it to each stall... all without picking up more than a flake.

This quite honestly, is a new paradigm in feeding horses. I'll go on record in saying that I think it will be a much bigger way of selling hay to horse people, in the future.

And concerning farms having skid loaders/tractors to move the hay. Most farms probably have something like that, but I think it is key that something which makes life EASY be developed. When grooms get to the farm, they typically park and hop into UTVs. The only tractor usage on a daily basis is the one attached to the manure spreader.

I think having a quick attach implement for a UTV would help sell the hay. Owners don't like FELs in the barn. They have a tendency to take out crossbeams when the help becomes lax.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I have tried to get horse customers onto different package than small square but the only ones that bite are outdoor paddocks with multiple horses. The folks with stalls and individual paddocks won't touch anything else as they can set a number of flakes feeding.

We feed rounds to the horses here even in stalls from bales in the aisle and have shown customers how it works but not many takers.


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Teslan said:


> I had thought the small bales from the multibaler weighed about 100 pounds? I had thought someone had commented that. I haven't seen one in person. Krone isn't a big seller here of balers. The high cost is to be expected. I still don't know about the flakes. I would have to see one in person. Horsey people don't like change.


Agreed I too have heard that each small bale of the Krone multibaler is around 150lbs, but that could be handled by a dolly in the barn. Didn't know you could make 66lbs ones.


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

SVFHAY said:


> most of our previous conversations have been on the 1270, this is an 870, newer and smaller.


Makes sense, didn't know that there was a "smal" multibaler


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Bremerside Prime Aus said:


> Hi skyrydr. I think judging by the comments on here a lot of people dont really know about this baler or what it can do. Krone did make a 1270 multibale several years earlier and its bales were 4ft wide and 2ft 4inch high and the multibales were around 200lb so way too heavy. This did a lot of damage to their reputation but the 870 is a much smaller bale chamber. Over here there are paddocks that are 60 acres under centre pivot and 4 or 5 of them. We normally cut about 30 acres at a time as its a good size to rake each morning while the dew is on and easy to get all baled at night when the moisture is right. Plus if you get the weather wrong its only 30 acres you have to fix.


How about knotter wear, is it even or do the knotters baling the big bale wear out faster?


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Trillium Farm said:


> Makes sense, didn't know that there was a "smal" multibaler


----------



## Bremerside Prime Aus (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi Trillium farm,
Yes the baler you would have heard of from krone would have been there 1270 which is 1200mm wide and 700 high. This is same principle but an 870 so 800mm wide and 700 mm high hence the reduction in weight.


----------

