# Bale Grazing



## siscofarms

Well I have talked myself into trying this . I have some ground that needs to be redone next year anyway . I have plenty of hay . Thinking I can do this , resew in spring without fert cost . build the ground so to speak . and I don't have to feed hay every 2 days .

Talk me out of it if you can .

Or let me know your experience if you have done or do this .

Thanks Dave


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## hog987

I always thought bale grazing wastes too much hay. They say ya but what the cow doesn't eat builds soil fertility. I say the cow only digests 10%-15% of the plant matter anyways and what comes out the back end is already decomposed. So run the hay through the animal first.


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## IHCman

Have a few guys around here that have started bale grazing. I also feel they waste to much. I do agree its a good way to put fertilizer back out on the fields but seems to be pretty expensive fertilizer and its not spread out as uniform as I'd like. Myself I'd skip the whole bale grazing part and seed a cover crop or graze whatever regrowth is out there. That would only work in fall or early winter here as usually we get a lot of snow that could get to hard for the cows to dig down and graze. But Gabe Brown in the southern part of ND grazes his cows on cover crops all winter so it must be possible.

One thing I dislike about the guys around here that bale graze is that they constantly are trying to convince people that feeding cows is expensive and wasteful and that everyone should bale graze. They are almost holier than thou, if that makes any sense. I'm like to each their own, if it works for you, great keep doing it. I'll keep doing what works for me.


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## SCtrailrider

What is bale grazing, you unroll a bale on the field?


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## Ray 54

The more thing change, most times there really are not that different. I understand IHCman's statement about the "new idea folks".

My climate is different than about all the rest of you, most would call it desert. When I have less than 1/2 normal rain it really is. But if you have kept livestock for a few years, and you think some changes could help go for it.

But the one axiom I was raised on is "you can never starve a profit from livestock". So as long as they don't get really,really thin what ever you think is the right way.


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## Cozyacres

siscofarms said:


> Well I have talked myself into trying this . I have some ground that needs to be redone next year anyway . I have plenty of hay . Thinking I can do this , resew in spring without fert cost . build the ground so to speak . and I don't have to feed hay every 2 days .
> 
> Talk me out of it if you can .
> 
> Or let me know your experience if you have done or do this .
> 
> Thanks Dave


I have been bale grazing for about 6 years, if you use bale rings you dont waist much hay,

what i do is set the bales in several long rows, 6 in a row, and put up poly wire fence to keep them from getting to the other rows, when they are finished with the 6 I move the bale rings and the fence to the next row of 6, best thing is no tractor starting or bale moving in the winter at 20 below.

I have some youtube videos if you are interested. Bale grazing part 1 and 2

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTiNUb1xRxwHcGrtqp03B7A


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## farmersamm

I looked at some videos, including yours.

If I could use this method to spread Johnson Grass to land that's been cottoned out, I think it looks like a good deal.

I have some concerns though.

Land that was in cotton here, was in it during the 1930's into the 40's. No rotation, and virtually no fertilizer during that period. Maybe some triple 19, but that might have been all. Grama was desperate to feed her kids back then, and leased the land with very little control over how it was treated.

To this day, that land grows nothing, and I mean nothing. Weeds are the only thing able to survive, and they're thin at best.

Because there's no real vegetation to hold the soil, it's very thin, and all that's been left behind after years of runoff is a very sandy mess with some clay to bind it. Turns to dust in hot spells, then turns to slick paste during very wet weather. It's actually hard to describe it.

It has a tendancy to pack tight when there's any wheel traffic on it when wet. Ruts then become small creeks.

I bale, and buy, Johnson Grass hay, but I"m not sure whether the seeds are viable when it's in the haying stage. I certainly never see any volunteer Johnson Grass in the drylot, but that's maybe not a fair comparison to an open pasture. I can't find any literature on cultivating Johnson Grass either.

And I've noticed that Johnson Grass likes good ground, it won't come into a bad area.

I dunno what the compaction would be either. Bunch of cows can really tear up, and pack ground when concentrating in a small area around a bale.

During bad weather, when I can't even get into the drylot because it's a bottomless bog, I'll "throw" a bale over the fence.....actually about 4 bales. Honest to God, the cows tear them up in less than a day, and hardly get much to eat from it. It's all trampled into the mud. I only do this when I'm desperate. It's hard to watch 4 rounds get trampled, or scattered to the wind in less than 8 hrs.

I like the idea of using a feeder for 'bale grazing', but my feeders weigh so doggone much, they have to be moved with the FEL. Which I guess would be ok in dry spells. No way I'll ever switch back to those crappy store bought feeders. Cows tear them up in a week or two.

Hell, I dunno&#8230;&#8230;...got some Haygrazer with Johnson Grass mixed in it that hasn't been fed. Might try a few bales. Most of my Johnson Grass hay goes for summer feeding when I pull the cows off pasture to let it rest. It's the only thing they'll eat without having to starve them to it.


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## farmersamm

I do know I'm not real happy with the drylot gig. It's not healthy.







I think this was in the Spring some years back, really don't remember. It builds up over the Winter.









I move the feeders regularly, but I can only move them so far. Get too far away from the gate, and it's trouble during real wet weather. And my feeling is that you're only gonna spread the mess to the entire 2-3 acre area over time. Grass hay disperses, or packs into the ground fairly easy, but the Haygrazer doesn't like to decay fast, and mixes into the ground to form a multi layer mat.

Nobody I know owns a spreader, so it's a real problem. I see the same thing on a lot of places, always a mess where they feed during the winter.

Helped a guy feed one year when he had heart problems. He said he always raked it, and burnt it in the Spring. But he wasn't feeding what we're feeding. Less of a mess with fewer cows. Never did get around his place when he burned, but I'd imagine it took quite a bit of kerosene to get it to burn


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## BWfarms

Bale grazing is not effective. Period.

I understand the theory and it would work in perfect situations but think about a typical year and a typical animal. If I don't put a ring around the bale, I have a bull that will push the bale all over the county. I don't want to fix fences or waste valuable feed.

Perfect situation is no rain on the bales and dainty polite cattle.

The Cons outweigh the Pros.


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## StxPecans

So a cow can live off of hay and water in -20degree temp? Excuse my ignorance as i am not from the north. Infact I didnt think a cow could survive a -20f without shelter.


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## farmersamm

It makes my snot freeze just LOOKING at this video  






I suppose the guy has some source of water nearby. Gawd, could you imagine chopping ponds, or chopping tanks in that weather (cringe).

I'm quite happy living where I live (whew)


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## Cozyacres

StxPecans said:


> So a cow can live off of hay and water in -20degree temp? Excuse my ignorance as i am not from the north. Infact I didnt think a cow could survive a -20f without shelter.


Yep, Cows do fine on hay and water, took some old cows to the butcher, they were surprised how much fat was on them,

they can come into the barn if they want to, but choose to be outside except when very windy, I have freeze proof waters, no ice chopping, around here most beef cattle are out-wintered, with shelter if they choose, and it sometimes get colder then -20,

I don't move the bales when its muddy, and we feed them on frozen (sometimes -20F) ground, until spring, but that's another story, and the cheap bale rings have lasted over 6 years now,

so i guess bale grazing works and is effective for me...Period


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## Cozyacres

BWfarms said:


> Bale grazing is not effective. Period.
> 
> I understand the theory and it would work in perfect situations but think about a typical year and a typical animal. If I don't put a ring around the bale, I have a bull that will push the bale all over the county. I don't want to fix fences or waste valuable feed.
> 
> Perfect situation is no rain on the bales and dainty polite cattle.
> 
> The Cons outweigh the Pros.


I guess I have dainty polite cattle


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## IHCman

StxPecans said:


> So a cow can live off of hay and water in -20degree temp? Excuse my ignorance as i am not from the north. Infact I didnt think a cow could survive a -20f without shelter.


cattle will do just fine in -20 weather with just hay and water. Protection from the wind whether its trees or windbreak is necessary but they don't need to be in a barn. They eat a little more when its that cold but they can handle much colder temps than that also.

I find that cold temps that stay steady for days at a time are less stress on cattle than temps that rise and fall rapidly over a few days.


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## farmersamm

IHCman said:


> cattle will do just fine in -20 weather with just hay and water. Protection from the wind whether its trees or windbreak is necessary but they don't need to be in a barn. They eat a little more when its that cold but they can handle much colder temps than that also.
> 
> I find that cold temps that stay steady for days at a time are less stress on cattle than temps that rise and fall rapidly over a few days.


We've had that here in the last few years. Unseasonably warm days, followed by incredibly cold days. It takes a toll.


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## farmersamm

Cozyacres said:


> I guess I have dainty polite cattle


What you really need to do is to put together some results. Verifiable results. Document them, then make your argument.

Reading your original post got me to looking at stuff, and maybe it might work, maybe not. But you at least got me to looking. That's a good thing.

As to polite cows. I got Okie cows. Underprivileged, underfed, not well educated, and gots holes in their jeans. Cut to the chase...&#8230;&#8230;.they can be real mean. It makes your heart skip a beat when you see an adult lift a calf in the air, or slam the calf against a corral. Tis what it is. They're no different than we are...they're competitive.

Feeders, and polite cows. I got the same problem as BWfarms&#8230;..my critters destroy anything not heavier than they are. I'm sure most guys experience the same thing. You just build to meet the problem.

Anyways, I like the concept, but I need to mull it over. Just don't get antsy about it. I understand passion (well sorta...&#8230;...I'm over 60yrs old). Just make a good cogent argument. It goes a long way.


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## farmersamm

farmersamm said:


> We've had that here in the last few years. Unseasonably warm days, followed by incredibly cold days. It takes a toll.


Almost forgot. Rain is the worst. If it comes during a cold spell, it's deadly. Especially on the ones that aren't in top condition. Hypothermia can kill any living thing.


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## farmersamm

Hyperthermia


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## StxPecans

Well here it never gets cold to your standards. But I give my cows extra attention when it gets down below 40 of course its always blowing and raining it seems. We may get a rare icy couple of days and I will feed cubes along with bales along with decent pasture. But i guess according to yall some pasture and hay is all I should be doing.

Our winter is one day be high of 70 next high of 38. Two days later its high of 65.


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## farmersamm

StxPecans said:


> Well here it never gets cold to your standards. But I give my cows extra attention when it gets down below 40 of course its always blowing and raining it seems. We may get a rare icy couple of days and I will feed cubes along with bales along with decent pasture. But i guess according to yall some pasture and hay is all I should be doing.
> 
> Our winter is one day be high of 70 next high of 38. Two days later its high of 65.


We get down into the 20's for fairly long stretches. Then it gets real windy, and on top of that is the humidity at times. A real mess. Can't dress in enough layers.

I'm with you. I don't see how you can get through the Winter without cubes.

That little bit of extra protein helps the bacteria in the rumen, allowing for better digestion of the hay you're feeding (which may not be of the absolute best quality)

Cubes contain high Vitamin A too, which is, from what I understand, absolutely necessary when they're on hay.

Right now I'm putting out about 3lbs/head/day 20% range cubes. They had lousy pasture this summer, and aren't in top shape. We've discussed either a larger ration, or higher % protein.....but I'm thinking that would be overkill. She feels that a higher protein level is needed, and a good investment.

I've heard of some guys putting out the high protein cubes to make them eat more. They say it heats up the rumen, and hay intake increases. That might be true with cubes containing urea, I dunno (shrug). We can get natural protein 38% cubes around here http://www.stillwatermill.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=36

I don't buy from these guys due to the distance from me,, and also I've been told that they use chicken byproducts in their 20% cubes (something to do with the feathers). You should note that they don't identify the protein source in their description of the 20's

http://www.stillwatermill.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=41

"Natural Protein" can be anything. Adulterated feed is what got us into Mad Cow Disease.

Shawnee Milling, on the other hand, provides a (IMHO) better feed. They're in the business of making food products for people. The byproducts go into their livestock feed. http://www.shawneefeed.com/20-cube

They have a wide ranging business http://www.shawneefeed.com/about

Put the two feeds side by side, and you can see/smell the difference. Same same with the other feed mills in this area. I can get 20's for about $280/ton stacked from the local milling company, or $302/ton stacked from the Shawnee Feed distributor. For me, it's a no brainer. I'd rather pay the extra 20 bucks.


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## farmersamm

http://www.stillwatermill.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=41

Try this link for the Stillwater Milling 20's. I seem to have a broken link in the above post


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## farmersamm

Never mind, I fixed the link


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## r82230

farmersamm said:


> I'm with you. I don't see how you can get through the Winter without cubes.
> 
> That little bit of extra protein helps the bacteria in the rumen, allowing for better digestion of the hay you're feeding (which may not be of the absolute best quality)


I test my hay, even though the cows get the sometimes 'washed' hay (1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th cutting). I feed the washed hay in the early fall (before it get real cold). I feed the higher protein stuff during the real cold snaps (hay, water, mineral tub & salt box, is my cow's winter diet). This year my 1st cutting is running over 14% protein (while the later cuttings are above 17%).

Without testing your hay, do you just guess on how much cubes to feed?

Maybe my time of working with the dairy guys has me, thinking too much about a more balanced diet (not wasting $$) and hay being the cheapest source of protein (in MY area).

I didn't realize they put chicken in protein tubs, even though I have seen the commercial, where the cow has a sign 'eat mor chikin'. :lol:

Larry


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## StxPecans

Why 20% range cubes over cotton seed cubes?


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## KYhaymaker

Cozyacres said:


> Yep, Cows do fine on hay and water, took some old cows to the butcher, they were surprised how much fat was on them,
> they can come into the barn if they want to, but choose to be outside except when very windy, I have freeze proof waters, no ice chopping, around here most beef cattle are out-wintered, with shelter if they choose, and it sometimes get colder then -20,
> 
> I don't move the bales when its muddy, and we feed them on frozen (sometimes -20F) ground, until spring, but that's another story, and the cheap bale rings have lasted over 6 years now,
> 
> so i guess bale grazing works and is effective for me...Period


This bale grazing is something I have never heard of and I am intrigued by it. I have a full time job and I farm too so I guess I have 2 1/2 jobs lol...so anything that saves time I am interested in.

Ok I watched the video and read a few articles and have some questions for you or anyone else that has tried it.

1) I see this is used more in colder climates...is that because it is more inconvenient to feed in colder climates or is it because this technique is only good for frozen ground? While we get freezes, our average winter temp in KY is 40F or so. So we have a lot of mud. Does that make bale grazing unsuitable for my area?

2) Around here every one chooses an area of pasture to sacrifice and feeds on that spot. By the end of winter there is a buildup of muck and nothing grows there all summer, but at least you have saved most of the pasture. It seems like with bale grazing that you are ruining a lot more ground for grazing the following summer...how long does it take to get grass back on the feed area?

3) All my hay is netwrapped, because it is all stored outside. I wonder if I set out a bunch of hay and took off the Netwrap this fall if that would contribute to much extra loss to the bale.

4) Should hayrings be used?


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## Ray 54

Always interested in how other places supplement feed in what ever season of the year you need more.I can relate to the temperature change is more the problem in than how high or low it goes. A change of 25 to 35 degrees F is the norm and 50 is not that usual in the summer.

Life could be easy around here if you just knew what the weather will do. Also would help if commodity price relationship didn't move so much too.

I understand not having money for things like barns, but if you intend to be in livestock for the long term you need one. All kinds of university studies that even round bales loose lots of  feed value if left out. But see the value of not starting a tractor to move hay in the cold. I would be like others and want some hard data about the cost of bale grazing where it does not stay frozen for weeks at a time.


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## Cozyacres

KYhaymaker said:


> This bale grazing is something I have never heard of and I am intrigued by it. I have a full time job and I farm too so I guess I have 2 1/2 jobs lol...so anything that saves time I am interested in.
> 
> Ok I watched the video and read a few articles and have some questions for you or anyone else that has tried it.
> 
> 1) I see this is used more in colder climates...is that because it is more inconvenient to feed in colder climates or is it because this technique is only good for frozen ground? While we get freezes, our average winter temp in KY is 40F or so. So we have a lot of mud. Does that make bale grazing unsuitable for my area?
> 
> 2) Around here every one chooses an area of pasture to sacrifice and feeds on that spot. By the end of winter there is a buildup of muck and nothing grows there all summer, but at least you have saved most of the pasture. It seems like with bale grazing that you are ruining a lot more ground for grazing the following summer...how long does it take to get grass back on the feed area?
> 
> 3) All my hay is netwrapped, because it is all stored outside. I wonder if I set out a bunch of hay and took off the Netwrap this fall if that would contribute to much extra loss to the bale.
> 
> 4) Should hayrings be used?


I'll try to answer the best i can

Question 1

One of the reasons for me is not having a block heater plugged in all winter, and running a tractor at very cold temps,is dose seem to work better on frozen ground less damage to the pastures, I think you can bale graze in any climate. But you might have mud problems, so it might not work as good for you

Question 2

The grass here doesn't start to grow in this area until May, but by mid June you can hardly tell you bale grazed, and the following year you have a large increase in grass growth

Question 3

I take all my net and string off when I set the bale out, I don't see any extra loss

Question 4

Yes, in my opinion hay rings must be used, I tried it with out once, too much waste, my 2 big bulls and 65 cows with 20 or so calves sent the bales flying every were, I found you need enough rings and hay set out so they all have plenty of room to eat

Hope this helps, I am not an expert, I don't have any hard data, but this is what has worked for me, your mileage may vary


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## farmersamm

r82230 said:


> I test my hay, even though the cows get the sometimes 'washed' hay (1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th cutting). I feed the washed hay in the early fall (before it get real cold). I feed the higher protein stuff during the real cold snaps (hay, water, mineral tub & salt box, is my cow's winter diet). This year my 1st cutting is running over 14% protein (while the later cuttings are above 17%).
> 
> Without testing your hay, do you just guess on how much cubes to feed?
> 
> Maybe my time of working with the dairy guys has me, thinking too much about a more balanced diet (not wasting $$) and hay being the cheapest source of protein (in MY area).
> 
> I didn't realize they put chicken in protein tubs, even though I have seen the commercial, where the cow has a sign 'eat mor chikin'. :lol:
> 
> Larry
> 
> &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...
> 
> Not much point in testing this stuff
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> However, it's pretty good hay once you break into the bale (or what's left of the bale)
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> I have no qualms feeding this stuff. I've fed worse.
> 
> History behind the hay...&#8230;...This is the stuff I swapped for the work on the JD 5425. Tractor belongs to her boss, so it's a semi favor kinda deal. I really owe the guy for sending over a tanker truck full of water when we had a bad wildfire come thru in about 2012. She called, and without any hesitation, he sent one of the guys to fill the truck, and drop it off at the front gate. We used it to mop up after the fire came through, and left hot spots that we needed to take care of. Burning tree cores etc. Something pretty much identical to this.
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> We used gravity/pressure to run the water, couldn't figure out the pump on the thing, which might have only been a vac pump. I'm not an oilfield guy.
> 
> Guy uses rounds for his horses, but doesn't know how to store them. They were stacked together with no space between them on the sides. Water couldn't run off properly, and they never dried properly. Other than that, it's decent stuff in my world.
> 
> Anyways, we got a whole slew of it to get through before I feed my stuff. This is why we're figuring on upping the cube rate. Can't hurt (shrug)


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## KYhaymaker

Thanks Cozy. I think I would try it if our ground stayed frozen for the majority of winter. As it is I think I would lose a significant percentage of the pasture with all the mud we have. I dont want subzero but I would gladly trade 40 degrees for 20 degrees all winter.


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## siscofarms

Well this has gotten interesting . Just a note , The hay I will be using is fall cut , in fact I will finish cutting today , sereca and grass with quite a bit of sage grass in it . Not sure about other places but in my area its a $25 roll of hay at best . It will be hauled straight from the place it will be rolled to where it will be fed , While its still dry . They will eat what they will eat and I will pressure them to clean up as well as I can but for $2500 bucks Im going to feed cattle for a few months , raise the fertility and organic matter of a 10 acre field , and hopefully in the spring use a harrow to spread and level things out and plant into summer annual pasture to use in the heat of the summer . It sounds good and it is a hill side that shouldn't get very muddy for the fact that bales will be 20ft apart and no hay rings . so they will be tromping in hay to . That's also bedding in my mind . This will be a January thru april experiment so some frozen ground will be involved . Anyway , I haven't been talked out of it yet . ?<?>?>


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## farmersamm

Good luck with it.

Might work better than ya planned  








Just watch out for the elephants,, they're murder on fences :lol:


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## KYhaymaker

siscofarms said:


> Well this has gotten interesting . Just a note , The hay I will be using is fall cut , in fact I will finish cutting today , sereca and grass with quite a bit of sage grass in it . Not sure about other places but in my area its a $25 roll of hay at best . It will be hauled straight from the place it will be rolled to where it will be fed , While its still dry . They will eat what they will eat and I will pressure them to clean up as well as I can but for $2500 bucks Im going to feed cattle for a few months , raise the fertility and organic matter of a 10 acre field , and hopefully in the spring use a harrow to spread and level things out and plant into summer annual pasture to use in the heat of the summer . It sounds good and it is a hill side that shouldn't get very muddy for the fact that bales will be 20ft apart and no hay rings . so they will be tromping in hay to . That's also bedding in my mind . This will be a January thru april experiment so some frozen ground will be involved . Anyway , I haven't been talked out of it yet . ?<?>?>


Would it be too much trouble to kind of document this as you go? Maybe a few pictures and a summary of how well you think it worked. So you are planning to work the ground and then drill? Good luck I hope it works well for you.


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## siscofarms

Im hoping to use a spike tooth harrow . Hopefully no disking or anything and then depending on what the ground ends up like drill , spread , have to see what happens , some summer annuals for pasture in it to be drilled into a perm pasture next fall .

And I will be keeping up with it . My extension agent wants to keep up with it also so I will give you a yea or this sucks in the spring .


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## KYhaymaker

Thanks!


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## StxPecans

So bale grazing is ejecting bales without wrapping or tieing them?


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## farmersamm

StxPecans said:


> So bale grazing is ejecting bales without wrapping or tieing them?


I'd imagine he'd have to get all the twine/net wrap off. They get that stuff in the rumen, and it's bad news. It can form a ball, blocking the rumen, and eventually kill them.

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2017/09/13/the-hazards-of-plastic-net-wrap-and-twine-for-cattle-feeding/

http://feedlotmagazine.com/hazards-of-plastic-and-net-wrap/

Ton of other articles on it.

I never thought about it until the vet pointed it out when he came on the place some years back. I'd lost a couple of animals within a few days of each other, after bringing in some hay from Texas during our bad drought here.

Prior to this, when we had ice storms making it impossible to get the twine off, or when it was impossible to get net wrap off (net wrap is the worst), we'd put the bale out with the twine/wrap on it. Never gave it a thought till we saw some net wrap hanging out of a cow's mouth. And the vet saw some that had been permanently trampled into the ground from the previous year. It was why he brought it up.

Plastic twine isn't so bad, it's strong, and the cows mostly aren't able to pull it out of the hay (but they will sometimes). Net wrap will pull out of the hay, and they take it in with the mouthful they just tore off the bale. During the drought I was buying out of Southern Missouri, and a lot of it had sisal twine, which I understand, isn't as much of a problem.

This changed my entire approach to feeding bales. If I know icy weather is coming, I'll put out (hopefully) 5 days worth of hay in the feeders. Fill all 8. Usually don't make it the full 5 days, consumption goes up in bad weather. (Funny thing...&#8230;&#8230;.they'll just stand and shiver when it's freezing rain, won't eat, then eat like a house on fire as soon as the rain stops).

With twine, you can beat on the bale with a baseball bat, and get the twine off pretty easy. Doggone net wrap ain't the same though. That stuff strips the entire outside of the bale off. It's another reason I hate net wrap.

So anyways, besides the mess it'll leave, I'd assume anybody would want to pull the twine/net wrap off when leaving bales unprotected in a bale grazing system.

I saw a video where some folks up in Canada just left the bales where they dropped out of the baler, then cut the net wrap, and peeled it back on the ground. I can't remember if they cut off the loose stuff, but all I could think was that they were asking for trouble.


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## farmersamm

Found the video. I was wrong, they weren't dropped from the baler, but appear to have been placed where they were to be fed.






At 2:57 you'll see her cut the net wrap and lay it out. Assuming they're cutting off the excess, it still leaves what's under the bale. I think this is bad practice.


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## KYhaymaker

I use net, started with it couple years ago and love it. If you make a tight bale, then net wrap it, you wont lose more than an inch off the outside of the bale if you store outside like me. Way less loss than twine.

I have always removed both the twine and the net. Was always scared the cows would eat it and the twine ends up in mowers, tractor and truck axles/ spindles etc.

In ky I havent had any trouble getting either net or twine off, i have heard of it freezing on up north. I actually kind of prefer it to twine because it comes off in one piece, but the down side is you cant pull it out from under the bale like twine so unless you place the bale on end you have to get it off while on the spike. The biggest thing with net is you need hook a bag on the back of the tractor to stuff the net into, because it is bulkier than twine and makes a mess you dont want in the cab or around your feet on the tractor. Seems most people burn it in a barrel here.


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## farmersamm

StxPecans said:


> So bale grazing is ejecting bales without wrapping or tieing them?


I'm thinking that you'd really want a feeder around the bales.

We put these 4 out on Sunday afternoon, after getting the truck unstuck, and back to the house. THE PICS WERE TAKEN ON MONDAY AFTERNOON :lol:




















Can you imagine what you'd be seeing if there weren't any feeders surrounding the bales  

She waters them before going to work, so I haven't been out there yet. Probably all gone by now, or near gone. They'll slow down a bit after gorging themselves on new bales.

I can starve them back, and force them to clean up what's on the ground, but if you don't get hay out immediately after the cleanup, it's back to the same old crap of fighting over the hay.

The calves get caught in the middle of the fight, and we've found some dead ones out by the feeders over the years. Our suspicion is that they get stepped on, or maybe crushed. Usually they hang back, and wait till the others have fed, then go in for hay, but sometimes they try to nurse while Momma is at the feeder......this might be where the danger comes. I don't think I have particularly aggressive animals, but I don't know what others experience.

On the subject of feeders...&#8230;&#8230;..I think you could get by with the flimsy store bought feeders......they could be moved by hand to the next set of bales, but mine are very heavy, and require a loader to move. I couldn't have those flimsy feeders out there, been there done that...&#8230;.they'd be tore up in a week. I move mine after every 2 bales fed, otherwise the dunnage builds up in the bottom, and you gotta mess. They'll leave any sticks/trash, and the bottom moldy/wet part of the bale.

We keep 7 feeders in the lot, and one outside in the pasture. The outside one always has a bale in it for emergencies. Tractor breakdown, or too muddy to get in the lot. We've also had real bad times where we had to open up the storage area, and let them in just so they don't starve.

Anyways, just a few thoughts...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.


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## swmnhay

StxPecans said:


> So a cow can live off of hay and water in -20degree temp? Excuse my ignorance as i am not from the north. Infact I didnt think a cow could survive a -20f without shelter.


They are better off outside then inside at -20.A windbreak is important to keep windchill down but the cows get a winter coat and if they went into a building it would be a steamy mess and they would get sick.A dry place to lay also helps.Cornstalks are baled up here for bedding just for this reason.


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## Cozyacres

StxPecans said:


> So bale grazing is ejecting bales without wrapping or tieing them?


No, see my previous posts and videos on the subject. I move them from the hay fields set them about 25 feet apart and put a hay ring around them

https://www.youtube....RxwHcGrtqp03B7A


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## Ray 54

farmersamm I see a donkeys in the one picture,are they in with cows? I have heard donkeys can go after calves. I don't know that but several old timers here had nothing good to say about them and didn't want them any were in the country.


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## farmersamm

Ray 54 said:


> farmersamm I see a donkeys in the one picture,are they in with cows? I have heard donkeys can go after calves. I don't know that but several old timers here had nothing good to say about them and didn't want them any were in the country.


RIGHT YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd heard they do a good job at keeping coyotes at bay.

K'kins works with some characters. One of them asked her if we wanted a coupla donkeys. She asked me.

(sigh) 

"Sure" says me...&#8230;."Bring 'em on over"








Guy brings them over. Sarge, and Jenny was what he called them. (Sarge is the guy's drinkin' buddy)

I don't know squat about donkeys, neither does K'kins. She asks the dood how long they live. "They live a long time.....you ever see a dead donkey?" (shrug) It's the oil patch (shrug)

We have a pretty good coyote population here. I generally don't mind them. They keep the mice out of the round bales, and clean up a carcass when I lose a cow. I've never had them go after calves.

But I figure "Why not?, can't be a bad thing to have a coupla donkeys to keep an eye on the canine critters" They will attack your dog if they lure him into the brush.

FIRST TIME SARGE WENT AFTER A CALF WAS HIS LAST TIME :angry:

We were putting out bales, and the damn donkey ran a calf clear into the corner by the creek.

I'm on the tractor, and didn't see it right away. K'kins was hollering, and I turned to look. THE CHASE WAS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I chase that ba**ard all over the lot with the loader.

He ran out of the lot into this enclosed area between where we store hay, the gate to the pasture, and the gate to the lot. I damn near ran him through with the spike, but he got out of the corner next to the pasture gate. I was so hoarse from yelling at that damn donkey, I couldn't speak good for the rest of the evening.

K'kins: "I guess that wasn't too good of an idea"

They got memory though. We caught him at it only one more time, and a good yell was enough to get him off the calf. He's never done it since.

The cows hate that donkey. K'kins was at the gate giving him these apple flavored treat thingies. The cows were behind him. One of them lowered her head, looked a while, and damn near head butted him thru the gate :lol: He's a fast kicker, but she completely caught him by surprise.

We're thinkin' that the guy ruined him. Him, and his buddy, thought it was cool to give the stupid donkey beer. I'd bet that caused some brain damage over the years. Not a lot of noodle up there, and I'm thinking it doesn't take a whole lot to set it slightly sideways.

We almost thought we'd gotten rid of them a while back. The lady that runs the insurance agency said she wanted them, but she never followed through.

And they weren't free either. Had to call a farrier to come out and trim their little hoofies :angry: K'kins picked up the tab, I sure wasn't gonna :angry: (although I was the moron that said bring 'em over)








Only consolation was that Jenny bit him while he was tied up.

I hate those donkeys.


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## StxPecans

Funny we have 2, got them free trying to see if it helped with hogs, it does not. I was going to shoot them 2 years ago. Never got around to it and they are still with the herd. Thought about moving them to a big riverbottom property where its a little rougher down there with the wildlife. even considered eating them. Cant hardly get rid of them as you have ti have them tested at the auction and the test cost more than the donkey.


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## Ray 54

The government don't give them to you to help you make money. I don't know what it takes to sell one cause I see them for sale, but don't think anybody bits.The BLM has thousands of them to give away.

Calving time here and had coyotes for sure kill one maybe 2 . Just thankful the wolfs are still a lot of years away I hope.Have about 100 time more big kitties than is good,but not yet.


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## swmnhay

farmersamm said:


> She asks the dood how long they live. "They live a long time.....you ever see a dead donkey?"


I have to clean off my putor screen now!


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## chevytaHOE5674

I have 3 miniature donkeys in with my cows and have never had one even look sideways at a calf. Also haven't had and wolf or coyote problems since I've had them. People I got my jack from have a Jenny that is 38 years old and still producing a foal every 14 months or so, they just live forever. Figure the 3 I have will be my son's problem someday lol.

As for bale grazing I tried it in an effort to reduce tractor time but moving temp fence and bale rings got to be impossible mid winter so I gave up on it. Bought a hay unroller and roll out hay daily. Sure I have to plug a tractor in but I'd rather feed hay from the comfy heated cab listening to the radio than trying to find and move fence and rings at -30° in 4 feet of snow. Over the winter feeding season I can unroll hay over a couple of pastures, come spring I have no manure to haul, very little mud, and some of the best grass around.


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## farmersamm

Ray 54 said:


> The government don't give them to you to help you make money. I don't know what it takes to sell one cause I see them for sale, but don't think anybody bits.The BLM has thousands of them to give away.
> 
> Calving time here and had coyotes for sure kill one maybe 2 . Just thankful the wolfs are still a lot of years away I hope.Have about 100 time more big kitties than is good,but not yet.


My Clarence (he's long gone now, God how time flies) would come back to the house with slices in his legs, and flanks. He'd go after the big cats. I know we have them, because I hear them when they go into heat. And I know he couldn't have gotten those type of wounds from any other animal I know of.







He was about the meanest bastard on the planet. Hated anything on 2, or 4 legs. But he doted on me.

Got him from a lady that rescues strays. Didn't really want him when I saw him, but I'd already made the commitment to take him.

We didn't get along at first. He was kinda stand-offish. Didn't trust me.

He liked to bite tires, and tried to bite the tractor tires. He got his teeth caught, and got sucked under the tire. Took him to the vet, and had to have his jaw wired up for about maybe a month. During that time, he lived in the Dodge, and I had to go out and feed him every night. I gave him canned dog food that was soft. Had to get a finger full, and let him lick it off.

It changed that dog. He became my best friend. I wasn't married at the time, and he was all I had. Up to the day he died, that dog wouldn't let you out of his sight. Even when arthritis had him almost crippled. Little guy lived almost 13yrs. Couldn't hear anymore, and had full cataracts. He got killed on the highway. Every morning he used to go over and visit this dog across the road, then come back. He probably never heard the car that killed him.

Did get married while he was still alive. Her kids hated the dog, and would abuse him. He never hurt them, but snapped at them when they would hit him. That gal said that I had to get rid of the dog. I told her the dog wasn't goin'. She left. Good riddance.

Occasionally think back on that dog, and talk about him with K'kins. She feels it's a good thing that we met after that dog got killed. She thinks he wouldn't wanna have to have shared. I don't believe that. That dog was a good judge of character.

Funny thing. The night after he died, the little dog across the highway came over to the house, walked in, and slept where Clarence slept. Then the little thing left the next day, and never came back.

About 2 days after Clarence died, I was out in the yard near dusk. I was going out to the shop. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw this greyish thing cross the yard. It was low to the ground, and pretty big. I know it was the big cat that lives in the creek bottom. At the time, I thought that the cat felt safe coming in the yard after the pup was gone.

Pup we got now, will sometimes get frantic at night, then comes to the door to be let in. He's tough, but not as tough as Clarence was. Probably offspring of that big cat. It's been a long while since Clarence died.

The few guys that I know around here (I'm not a real friendly guy) have told me they're losing livestock to cats. So far, we're ok. I hear them, and go out on the back porch, and let off a few rounds down towards the creek.

I dunno if those stupid donkeys are any good against a cat. Haven't suffered any losses.

Between Clarence, and the pup we got now, we had a Pyrenees. Nice dog, but he wouldn't stay home. He lived with the herd, and would go off chasing anything he heard. One day, he went off, and never came back. We never found the carcass. I did hear him barking somewhere down by the creek that day, but didn't think too much of it.

Then there was Henry. Some sorta ****/bird dog kinda mutt. Mean as hell too. Used to come home covered in blood. We figure that's what got him killed. He died from anti freeze poisoning. Probably killed some guys chickens, or his dogs. Hell of a way to go. I had to watch it.

One we got now, is fairly mean. Doesn't like people, but isn't too good with the local critters. But he's just about as doting as Clarence was. He'll protect K'kins, and that's all I want in a pup.






You know you got a good dog when he's got that stare.


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## farmersamm

About the last of this late night stuff. K'kins gets home tomorrow. Been staying with her Mother last few days. Heart problems. Be good to see her home. Mother sees the doc on monday.


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## Ray 54

As many big kitties as there are they generally don't get started on cattle. But there are several city folks that have some sheep and goats those make very tasty kitty food. Last spring there was lion that decide sheep and goats was all it wanted. Fish and Wildlife live trapped it and hauled it 30 miles away and was back in a day or 2. More of the story keeps coming out and it killed at least one of Great Pyrenees guard dogs.

Chevy I am glad your donkeys are all buddy,buddy with you cows. But just like farmersamm has good dogs there are dogs that get to running around away from home that cause big trouble. Just wanted him to be aware it could happen. I think I have heard of people that thought having a donkey with goats and sheep would keep coyotes and lions away,but I might have that confused with llamas.


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## siscofarms

Well , Because of weather and decided to stack grass for spring instead of pasturing this fall , Im in bale grazing mode early . The week of nov 5 I put out 10 rolls .They still had grass to pick so I didn't go crazy . Probably a good thing . The waste thing concerned me so it worked out that I have just stayed with the 10 rolls a week . Im not using bale rings or anything and still putting them out in the grid I was going to use . 10 rolls last about a week . You don't HAVE to feed exactly a week later . Depending on weather , mud , you can feed a day or 2 sooner or later depending on your forecast or schedule . I think they clean up better and later on will try 20 rolls to see about going 2 weeks . and maybe so on . I have found out they will not waist as much if you put the bales on their end instead of as stacked . was a little of a surprise to me . If I figure out how to get the pictures from my phone to on here I will post them . So far they are not eating as much as they would have in the dry lot , which would be mud by January , I think its because of stress and the fact they don't have to compete around the hay ring and they are in a 8 acre field . I have their mineral and stuff with them , they have water . Early , but so far , really liking this .


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## Vol

Sisco, I think that if you picked up some used plastic pallets to set your rounds on(flat side) that would be even further of a benefit as the winter wears on.

Regards, Mike


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## Cozyacres

here's an interesting article on bale grazing from Progressive Forage magazine

https://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-types/grasses-and-grazing/winter-bale-grazing


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## siscofarms

Interesting article , same kind of article is what has me trying this . The one thing I can say . atleast here in ky where the ground hasn't even thought of freezing , I wouldn't do this in a pasture I wanted to keep . I LOVE what is happening with mine . Im putting out 20 rolls at a time . I do use my tracked skid steer to minimize any ruts cause it has been wet here . That last about 2 weeks . Im not using any bale rings or hot wire . But I do put them out in a pre planned grid . Its working great for me but I plan on redoing this pasture in the spring . Although they are not tromping it bad Im not sure Id want to have them in a "good" pasture . Maybe if you spread the rolls out more or something it may work better and not tear up the ground as much . And if it was actually good grass there it may not be as bad either . this ground was basically crab grass last summer , hence the need for renovation .


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## siscofarms

Can I put pics on here without being on face book ? which Im not on . Ill post pictures if I can figure out how to do it .


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## r82230

siscofarms said:


> Can I put pics on here without being on face book ? which Im not on . Ill post pictures if I can figure out how to do it .


On a computer,

Click on Gallery (across top, Home, Forum, Chat, Gallery),

Click on upload (black box, on right side of screen),

Click on Create New Album (or select one if you have already created on),

Click on Choose Files,

Select the photos you want to up load (from your computer location),

Click Review and Publish (Titling, etc),

Click Finish and Publish.

Now, in your post, you can select My Media, then select the picture you desire.

HTH

Larry


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## siscofarms

I give up on posting pics on here . When my daughter cant figure it out then its a lost cause . My computer is a full fledged dinasour so that could be a thing . So , since I don't do FB . I will start posting pics on twitter, #balegrazing . Im at @siscofarms . Lots of others doing this on there also if your looking for info . And yes ,,, Still loving it .


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## DeepFish

I have been doing this for 4 years and agree that I will continue to bale graze.

I have staged my large bales 4x4x8 in my winter pastures for bale feeding spread apart about 20 feet each, separated by polywire. The bales are set up as grass hay, grass hay, alfalfa, repeat across the pasture. I setup the bales and covers up in December and have enough to get me into the 3rd week of February. The cattle don't get the bales until there is snow on the ground which is usually Christmas here.

I have access to some UpNorth silage bags that I have cut and installed grommets in to create square bale covers. This to mainly keep the Idaho winter rain/ice from freezing them into cubes, but also none of our local elk or deer have discovered them "yet". I have watched them walk right by them. I move the polywire uncover the bale, (ice slides right off the covers), cut the top three of the strings, tie the bottom three stings together (makes it easier to find them if the cows break down the bale to fast - find one string you get them all). Then let the cows back in. I let them eat and then kick them back to another pasture to graze what they can till the next day.

I thought if I got some of the Century Livestock HDPE feeders I could move them easily to each bale by hand and drop them over the top of a new bale in an attempt to stop or slow down some of the fouling of the hay. I'll try that next winter.

I try my hardest not to burn tractor fuel in the winter. I enjoy doing this by hand and teaching my kids about...W.O.R.K. but I really enjoy the daily walks to move them in and out.


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## siscofarms

Thought I would put a finishing touch on this . Not like its raining and to wet to do anything in the fields :huh: . I LOVE THE WAY THIS TURNED OUT . The pasture kinda worked itself out as far as leveling itself out and what I did was drilled seed right over the top of everything . No drag , No nothing , and it looks great with no fert . What seed that was in the hay was coming uo in the patch of the bale . Hard to explain I guess but for the price of fertilize versus the loss of a roll of hay with the other soil benefits of the hay , Im WAAAY ahead . Cows did good cleaning up the hay except at the very end . Mat of hay may have been a little thicker . Just a note to not put out a full amount as things green up . It was a biweekly thing . I would put out 20 rolls every 2 ish weeks . Could wait on weather for nice days to put out hay . Cows could eat what and when they wanted . Had good bedding for cold weather .IT was a win win all the way around . Will definetly continue to do this .


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## IHCman

glad it worked for you.


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