# Low Carb Horse Hay.



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Progressive Forage Grower.....oh my word. What happened to feed regulation and exercise.

Regards, Mike

https://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-production/harvest-and-storage/the-growing-demand-for-low-carb-horse-hay


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm not sure I want to deal with the people that come along with horses that need low carb hay.


----------



## reede (May 17, 2010)

That seems to be a large portion of horse hay market/population here. All of the extension programs for horses seem to be about founder/laminitis/limiting feed, while not causing dietary upset since horses need food going through all the time.

After reading that, I looked through last year's hay analyses, and all of mine that I produced last year fell into their category for low carb hay. Interestingly enough, by far the lowest, was my field of BarOptima novel endophyte fescue. It was planted to be a pasture, but cut for hay last spring as a management tool. It was also the preferred hay, by far, by the folks who used it. Now I'm getting requests for more of it.

There WILL be, at some point, a market for Novel Endophyte hay. It is up to us to develop and grow it.

Reed


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

reede said:


> That seems to be a large portion of horse hay market/population here. All of the extension programs for horses seem to be about founder/laminitis/limiting feed, while not causing dietary upset since horses need food going through all the time.
> 
> After reading that, I looked through last year's hay analyses, and all of mine that I produced last year fell into their category for low carb hay. Interestingly enough, by far the lowest, was my field of BarOptima novel endophyte fescue. It was planted to be a pasture, but cut for hay last spring as a management tool. It was also the preferred hay, by far, by the folks who used it. Now I'm getting requests for more of it.
> 
> ...


But then there are some if you say fescue they act like it will kill their animals. I guess one could just say BarOptima Novel hay and be good to go.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> But then there are some if you say fescue they act like it will kill their animals.


That is the way it is here. I just don't grow it for commercial sales as it would be pointless here.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Been studying about buying a 2250 Hesston.....and I called one of my more picky horse customers this morning to quiz him on his thoughts of going to a 3x3x7 or so. Seems like all of the horse customers here have these little Kubota tractors around 35 horsepower. I don't know if that is engine or PTO as I ask them the model number and none of them can tell me. :huh:

Regards, Mike


----------



## Dadnatron (Jul 24, 2017)

I'm in the Thoroughbred Racehorse business...

I grew up on the back of 'mutt' cow horses...

When I see how some horses are pampered it makes me laugh. Even my own. My wife is always worried about 'this or that' to the point of lunacy. I repeatedly explain that horses are more resilient than many make them out to be, but... in the same vein, Tbreds do tend to be a little more fragile, at least at the top level of competition.

But, I see all the supplements, latest and greatest tack/training/etc... and I realize this is just an outlet for a lack of general worry about typical human life issues.

You see... it is my philosophical belief that we, as HUMANS, have an inbred requirement for a certain amount of 'stress'. Historically, that meant we had enough drive, as a species, to build a shelter and insure a food supply. Now, however, in modern times, those requirements are essentially totally and completely met. So... what do we do to channel our need for 'stress'? We invent things... we invent the need for new 'pronouns', we invent the need for new iPhones, and we invent the need for 'low carb hay'. If we were still worried about finding supper and freezing to death... we wouldn't be able to worry about calling someone 'zhir' or Facebook, or 'hot horses'.

You heard it here first...


----------



## Dadnatron (Jul 24, 2017)

Teslan said:


> But then there are some if you say fescue they act like it will kill their animals. I guess one could just say BarOptima Novel hay and be good to go.


The thing about Equine fescue toxicosis from the K31 fungus resulting in foal abortion and/or prolonged pregnancy and difficult birth, is that it is definitely real. A friend who runs a boarding farm had a mare ship in from Virginia for foaling. It is common, due to breeding incentives, etc in racing. She went 43 days past her due date, had a bad foal which died, and no one could figure out why. Come to find out, the owners were new, and had been grazing her at their farm, which was planted in K-31 fescue.

THAT is a big deal if you are looking for a $50-100K foal. It is a 'non-issue' if you have anything other than broodmares. That being said... I did spray and plow all the fescue waterways on my place and reseed it in KBG/Orchard.

Breeding is what we do and the last thing I want is a mare to get out and get into a waterway. There are enough issues as it is.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Dadnatron said:


> The thing about *Equine fescue* toxicosis from the K31 fungus resulting in foal abortion and/or prolonged pregnancy and difficult birth, is that it is definitely real. A friend who runs a boarding farm had a mare ship in from Virginia for foaling. It is common, due to breeding incentives, etc in racing. She went 43 days past her due date, had a bad foal which died, and no one could figure out why. Come to find out, the owners were new, and had been grazing her at their farm, which was planted in K-31 fescue.
> 
> THAT is a big deal if you are looking for a $50-100K foal. It is a 'non-issue' if you have anything other than broodmares. That being said... I did spray and plow all the fescue waterways on my place and reseed it in KBG/Orchard.
> 
> Breeding is what we do and the last thing I want is a mare to get out and get into a waterway. There are enough issues as it is.


yes I know that is the reason people don't want their horses having fescue. I wasn't questioning that at all. It is real. It's iust all the suggestions to feed fescue which surprises me sometimes


----------



## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Excuse my ignorance, but do the carbs drop off as the grasses mature?
Is 2nd/3rd crop apt to be higher in carbs than 1st crop?
We're talking mixed grasses here, no legumes to speak of.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Dadnatron said:


> That being said... I did spray and plow all the fescue waterways on my place and reseed it in KBG/Orchard.
> 
> Breeding is what we do and the last thing I want is a mare to get out and get into a waterway. There are enough issues as it is.


If the mare could also graze other pasture grasses that were not fescue, it would be highly unlikely that she would have foaling issues. It has been my first hand experience that the real "fescue" related issues such as thickened or retained placentas come from grazing high endophyte KY31 solely.

Regards, Mike


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We make Orchard Grass Alfalfa mix first cutting just when the grass goes into head and the Alfalfa is usually about 20% bloom this is something the horse people like. Got some tested to use a little in the TMR not sure if the sugar would suit some horse people or not.


----------



## reede (May 17, 2010)

endrow said:


> We make Orchard Grass Alfalfa mix first cutting just when the grass goes into head and the Alfalfa is usually about 20% bloom this is something the horse people like. Got some tested to use a little in the TMR not sure if the sugar would suit some horse people or not.


Looks to me like 4.8 + 2.5 = 7.3, which I think would qualify. Been a few weeks since I read the article, and I'm too lazy to go back and read again.


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Dadnatron said:


> I'm in the Thoroughbred Racehorse business...
> 
> I grew up on the back of 'mutt' cow horses...
> 
> ...


Exactly...

Biggest problem in this country today is people don't have enough to worry about... so they worry about the WRONG things...

That leads to the sort of absolute lunacy we have today... all these enviro-wackos and nut-case over-regulation of everything...

If people had to worry more about where their next meal would come from, we'd have a LOT more common sense and a lot less idiocy...

Later! OL J R


----------



## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Boys aint that the truth!
There is NOTHING that frosts my arss more than someone minding MY business! Or worrying about what I'm doing... I must be doing something right or I would be like them....


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe it would be easier for the horse to get more exercise


----------



## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah that! Put horse on tread mill, hitch tread mill to electric generator! Let horse earn it's keep!


----------



## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

endrow said:


> Maybe it would be easier for the horse to get more exercise


*I grew Teff Grass for a couple years.The horse owners from the suburbs were my target audience. I started getting complaints from a few that my Teff Grass was making their horses fat. I politely ask them if they ever rode their horses or where they just yard ornaments?*

*They both got upset with me, but quickly came to their senses. Calories in, calories out.*


----------



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

endrow said:


> Maybe it would be easier for the horse to get more exercise


Definitely easier said than done.

--owner of two fat Apps


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

People all want the nicest looking hay for their horses, they want the stuff you would feed to a cow milking 120 lbs a day. If you cut the hay a week or two after the dairy farms get done and make the hay with no rain or mold. it will be just right for horses. And they don't need pure alfalfa, a good mix grass/ alfalfa. Some of the people know that others you can't tell them anything.


----------



## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I was just at a large horse stable this weekend dropping off the last of our hay. I saw what some of the other tenants were feeding their horses, as each is responsible to provide feed for their own critters, and it looked like pure yellow straw! 
And that person made comments on the hay I was delivering saying it didn't look good, yeah.. thats why I was bringing more ... the folks that fed my stuff said their horses cleaned every bit up? 
Some of mine gets bleached over time but you can actually brush the bleached parts off as it is only barely on the surface, that stuff this lady was feeding was bleached way beyond that..


----------



## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

First, I am definitely not trying to be in the horse hay business. My fields are primarily fescue for first cut, 2nd cut has mostly fescue and bermuda, 3rd cut has mostly bermuda and some fescue, and 4th cut has primarily fescue with a little bermuda. I do also have some pure bermuda that I cut for the horse people I know. All of my hay is packaged in a convenient (for me) 4x5 dense bale. I had a lady come by begging me to sell her hay for her horses. I told her that it's weed free, fertilized, but knowing how horse people tend to be leary of fescue; I told her it all has fescue in it and to be weary if she had any preggo or nursing mares. She said "my horses love fescue, how many will you sell me?" She came back the next week and bought many more, and also brought a horse friend. She referred several horse people to me and their horses all love the hay. I grew/harvested cow hay and the ladies said it was better than their "horse quality" hay they were buying elsewhere, and they gained weight on my hay without changing anything else, letting them run (barrels) harder/longer and stay in shape.

My cow customers bought a lot of hay, but no where near the amount my horse ladies did. They are real horse people though. They laughed when I told them about y'all talking about your horse customers and said, "you mean to tell me them people make sure their pastures don't have any fescue in them? Because if it's out there them horses are gonna eat it!"


----------



## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Low carb hay, really? There is no such thing, hay is almost completely carbohydrates to begin with besides a little protein.


----------

