# Do 'wide swath' kits on MoCo's dry hay faster?



## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

I'm narrowing down my search for a new MoCo at the end of this year and am looking for opinions on whether or not to get the wide swath kit offered by most of the equipment brands. NH and Krone offer it as an option, Kuhn seems to offer it only on it's center pulled machines, and now JD is coming out with a version of it for next year. I'm making strictly grass hay for horses........small squares. Will spreading the hay out very wide while mowing make the hay dry faster? I've heard yes, simply due to more surface area exposed to the sun, but I've also head the arguement that a swath that just fits between the rear ties of the tractor is better so that.......A) the hay doesn't get run over as much, and B) so that the area in between the swaths can dry out before tending. I typically come in with the tedder a few hours after mowing. Just curious what everyone has found.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

In the east it makes a significant improvement most of the time even with some driving on the swath. My only complaint is sometimes I have trouble getting the tedder to lift the matted tire track portion. In long hay its ok but in shorter stuff it can be hard without setting the tedder so aggressive it grabs dirt.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Makes sense Slowzuki. It's not a huge expense to get the wide swath kit, so I might as well get it. If the conditions aren't right to use it on a certain day, I don't have to use it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I wouldn't pay anything for it.....but here it would promote faster dry down. If I want to speed dry down because of a narrow window, I'll Ted right behind the mower.....my swath boards are always open to their widest unless rain that evening of cut is a possibility....then I narrow it up
Welcome to haytalk born country112......


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

I had it on my last 2 discbines and I think it helps a lot. I also ted 8 to 12 hours after cutting and bale in 24 to 36 hours after cutting. I have mostly mixed grass and 25 acre of straight alfalfa


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

We had it on our last 1431 some days I loved it some days I cursed it. I agree on the later cuttings the tedder wouldn't pick it up. Then you rakked it just a couple hours before baling and the rake pulls out of the tire tracks and you have that green hay mixed in there at 110% moisture when the rest is almost dry. The ground is a little wet the ground never dries till you rake it. But if you mowed on parched dry ground it worked great maybe even no need to tedd.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Is the wide swath kit an all or nothing deal, i.e. major surgery to return to narrow swath?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

If you are tedding that quick (couple hours after mowing), I wouldn't spread (while cutting), wider than the tractor wheels, for exactly the reason Slow mentions (dirt in the hay) or Endrow mentions (the wet spots).

My understanding is the first couple of hours most of the 'drying' is respiratory (leaves losing moisture, before the close up their pores), by then you are tedding and spreading wide.

My two cents.

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I've looked at it before, if I only had alfalfa on lighter ground I might give it a try, but this last time around after leaving it narrow for a few days the ground was still sticky between the rows, overtime you moved the hay whatever was on bottom was wet again, so a wide kit here would have done zero good and would have been a hindrance even. Even my lighter ground the ground was pretty wet when mowed, the next day though between the rows was starting to dry out.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Someone summed it up right in the beginning it's a very good tool, the big disadvantages driving a short stalked crop, with 20.8 x38 tires maybe a hundred twenty horsepower tractor is a bit of a problem


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hay making is 1/2 art, 1/2 science, 1/2 luck! (Government math)

I try to balance the ground wetness against crop thickness against drying forecast.

Sometimes I mow, spread it wide, and don't ted. Ground needs to dry-ish, crop moderate to thin.

Sometimes I mow, dump it in a narrow windrow and ted. Ground is usually wet-ish, crop moderate to thick.

Sometimes I mow, spread it wide and ted. Ground ry-ish, crop thick. I will ted over 1.5 windrows rather than the normal two.

I try to avoid tedding if possible--it's just another trip over the field causing compaction, using fuel and time.

Sometimes I mow it into a tall, narrow windrow and don't ted. Ground is dry, crop moderate to thin and lots of breeze and sun. Keeps the color.

I can't say I ever do the same thing twice--that's the art part. And I can't say I don't get rained on--that's the luck part. Balancing ground moisture, crop density and drying forecast is a decision tree--that's the science part.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

348, no major surgery.........just a quick adjustment with little or no tools, depending on brand of mower. After the responses, I can see both sides. With more manufacturers coming out with it, and the reason they give for it is that it dries the hay faster, I think it's worth consideration when buying a new mower. So far I'm getting more negatives than I expected.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I took the swath forming sheilds right off my kuhn discbine. Leaves a swath 90% of cut width. Wish I would have done it sooner. Dont own a tedder, but have rotary rake. We have had one of the rainest summers in recent memory. I could cut the hay one day and be baling dry hay later in the afternoon the next day. With out spreading it wide I would be like everyone else and have 80% of my hay rained on. This year iam less than 20%. It has worked great for me. Second year doing this.


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## BCRick (Nov 22, 2015)

I use a center pull Kuhn 10'3" 3160 with digi fingers. Straight grass (occasional dandylion or clover). The wide swather unit as installed is a great tool that can lay down up to 90% of cut width and vanes move when going round corners keeping the cut laid where you want it. My moco dries hay a full day quicker then rollers/windrows, and saves me from tedding, don't see the need as it's already spread out.

2015 didn't need it, 2016 it saved a lot of my hay from being sold as feeder.

I do have to give credit to the 'digi fingers,' they strip the wax off the grass, it really does work incrediably well, combined with wide swathing I have an enormous advantage over my neighbors when rains coming.

European technology that hands down beats anything available here in North America, which is why it now seems like everybody is offering it.

BC Rick


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks for your 2 cents BC Rick. It totally understand the arguement of not wanting to run the hay over, but like you said, I think there must be something to it drying the hay faster since most manufacterers are now coming out with their own version. I'm most likely down to Kuhn or Krone. I need to go visit a couple dealers later this year to see them in person. Sure wished Kuhn offered wide swathing in a side pull 11'6" model with the digi-fingers. I believe you need to go to a center pull with Kuhn to get it, and center pull is not worth $4000 more to me. Been very happy with my old FC302 over the years.


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

Spreading the swath back out is only 1/4 of the battle. You need sun, wind, and a taller cutting heigth.
If you scalp the crop and leave the windrow laying on the dirt, it will soak up ground mositure. You cut at lets say 3-4' tall, spread the crop back out the cutting width, you have a thin layer that the wind can get through dry everything, bottom of swath, ground, everything. 
It seems people forget that it's a combination of thibgs to make good hay.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Dirtball, I've been making hay for close to 30 years, and fully realize there are many factors that go into drying quality hay. Everyone does it a little differently. I'm not looking for a miracle cure, every little bit helps. Just looking to make an educated decision when I purchase a new MoCo shortly. It's a long term investment for me, so I want to get the right machine with the right options and never look back.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ifn ya find that "miracle cure" please let us know......


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

Awesome


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## BCRick (Nov 22, 2015)

The running over the hay argument seems a little off base to me. I cut, spread the hay in a 9' swath, let dry. Then I rake, and yes I do run over hay. But so too does anyone who teds.

BCRick


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I spread my alfalfa 8' windrow. Yes, I do run over the hay while cutting, but I've never lost sleep over it. In this area, I've found I better to spread it wide and drive over some, than make muskrat house windrows that I don't run on. That's what I found works "here"


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't use a wide swath kit but like the concept. We ted everything but that should still give it a few hours head start. The thing that wouldn't work best about it here at times though is mowing on wet ground. We usually don't make narrow windrows just to avoid driving over fresh cut hay but to give some of the ground a chance to dry out prior to tedding. Now if the ground was already mostly dry I'd think the wide swath would really shine.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Trotwood, that's exactly the conclusion I'm coming to. We ted everything too.......usually a few hours after mowing. When I finish mowing a larger field, say one that takes 4 or 5 hours to mow, there is a noticeable difference in how much drier the hay is where I started mowing vs. where I finished mowing, so as long as the ground is not too wet, it sounds like the extra surface area for those handful of hours will help. The weather is so unpredictable in the northeast the last couple years that every little bit counts. If you do the math, it only takes a couple kicker wagons(at roughly 200 bales each) to lose $1/bale in quality because the hay needed just a touch more sun before baling that we never got, to pay for a wide swath kit that cost roughly $400. I'll get the kit, and use it when the ground is not too wet, and see how it goes. Thanks for your advice everyone!


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## RCAlafalfa (Jun 22, 2015)

Brncntry112 said:


> Trotwood, that's exactly the conclusion I'm coming to. We ted everything too.......usually a few hours after mowing. When I finish mowing a larger field, say one that takes 4 or 5 hours to mow, there is a noticeable difference in how much drier the hay is where I started mowing vs. where I finished mowing, so as long as the ground is not too wet, it sounds like the extra surface area for those handful of hours will help. The weather is so unpredictable in the northeast the last couple years that every little bit counts. If you do the math, it only takes a couple kicker wagons(at roughly 200 bales each) to lose $1/bale in quality because the hay needed just a touch more sun before baling that we never got, to pay for a wide swath kit that cost roughly $400. I'll get the kit, and use it when the ground is not too wet, and see how it goes. Thanks for your advice everyone!


Not sure where you got the $400 quote from for the kit, but I just got a quote from Hygrade Engineering for $144 for a 13' mower. They have a website if you search it. Miggt be worth looking into.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm going to say it depends a LOT on your ground, if your on lighter drought prone soils then a wide kit will most likely work for you. One of my fields laid for 5 days in narrow rows, ground was still sticky to wet after those five days, tedded it, tedded again, wasn't drying out and was tired of farting with it, weather was less than favorable, raked and baled then wrapped on the seventh day, ground was still wet and so was the hay.

The next 50 acres i made was on much lighter soils that after a few days after mowing had dust from driving across it, I mowed some of the light ground the same day as the heavy and the rest the day after, they are about two miles apart so same weather more or less.

The lighter ground was under 18% days before I got tired of messing with the heavier soil and wrapped it.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Mlappin, almost all my ground is on dry hoosic gravel, so I never have issues with wet ground except for a stray spring here and there. It's good on a wet year, terrible on a dry year like we had this year. The $400 price on the kit was to get the mower fitted from the factory with the wide kit from Krone. I don't recall the exact price, but that's roughly what the dealer quoted me. Didn't realize aftermarket was an option. Thanks for the tip, I'll check into that!


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

If you choose to go with the factory installed option, make sure you have the hardware/ability to switch back and create windrows if conditions warrant, or just for your own experimentation to see what works best for you.


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## hay-man (Oct 6, 2012)

Let's get this back on track. 
I have a Krone 3200 cv, it's a 10'6" flail conditioner. I bought the wide spread kit mainly just for some custom work I do for beef cattle round bales. I do not Ted this hay and needed maximum sun exposure. For my good stuff that I square bale I normally Ted within 12 hours of cutting, I choke the cutter down so I'm not running on top of cut hay. I paid just under $400 for the kit from Krone, there is quite a bit of steel in it and I don't think the price is out of line. I would not worry about looking for anything aftermarket.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

I'm new to this forum, and would like to try my hand at commenting on this topic because I'm a firm believer in wide swath haying. I live in North Idaho where we have fairly hot dry summers, but the chance of a stray thunderstorm is around every corner. One of the main things that I like about wide swaths and tedding, is that you have a lot more control over the drying process. I grow exclusively grass hay (orchard and timothy), and I have it down to where I can cut early in the morning, Ted around noon, and be raking and baling (12-16% moisture ) by late afternoon. As long as the weather is warm and sunny, this works every time. I could never dream of doing that with my old method of tight windrows.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Idaho Hay, wow........that's impressive! I know it's not realistic to accomplish that same feat here in the northeast with our humidity, but nevertheless........impressive. For what the wide swath kit costs, it seems like a no-brainer for me at this point to get the mower with it. If the conditions aren't right, it's simple to adjust the swaths back in on any given day. Just curious.........what are you using for a MoCo, tedder and rake?


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

I have a New Holland H7230 (10') disc mower with rubber roll conditioners, that with the wide swath kit will spread the hay out 95-100% of the cut width. My tedder is just a 2 basket Galfre which matches my swath width pretty good. My rake is an 11 wheel Frontier V-rake that is just about the right size to pull 2 swaths together. To top it off, I bale with a New Holland bc5070 and pick it all up with a New Holland 1033 pull type bale wagon.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

For what it's worth, it was fairly major surgery to set the wide swath kit up on my NH mower, and not something you'd want to switch out from one day to the next. I had to remove the windrow shields and the side deflecters from the swath gate. Go to youtube and search "wide thin fin kit", and you'll find a bunch of videos for New Holland's system.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Idaho Hay said:


> For what it's worth, it was fairly major surgery to set the wide swath kit up on my NH mower, and not something you'd want to switch out from one day to the next. I had to remove the windrow shields and the side deflecters from the swath gate. Go to youtube and search "wide thin fin kit", and you'll find a bunch of videos for New Holland's system.


That video is also posted here on haytalk by Bill Wilson (hay wilson in TX).

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> That video is also posted here on haytalk by Bill Wilson (hay wilson in TX).
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike, any updates on Mr. Wilson?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Mike, any updates on Mr. Wilson?


Not a word. Bill is in his eighties so it could be very difficult for him.

Regards, Mike


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Vol said:


> Not a word. Bill is in his eighties so it could be very difficult for him.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Had no idea Bill was in his eighties. Generally someone in that stage of life isn't as up to date on research and such as he is.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

stack em up said:


> Had no idea Bill was in his eighties. Generally someone in that stage of life isn't as up to date on research and such as he is.


Yep....he's one tough son of a gun. Out mowing, raking, baling, gathering, and stacking little squares. Pretty incredible.

But, stroke can be very debilitating as most know. I am hopeful that with help he can overcome it.....but it will be a huge battle.

Regards, Mike


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

Wow! That's inspiring. I sure hope that I'm that motivated at his age. We're praying for ya Bill.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

Brncntry112, what make and model mower are you leaning towards? Disc? Sickle? Rubber rollers? Flails? Cut width?


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Idaho Hay, I'll most likely go with a 11'6" disc mower with flails. Currently I have a 10' Kuhn with flails that has been fabulous, but it's got 16 years under it's belt and it's getting to be time to move on. Regardless of manufacturer, it's roughly $2000 to go from 10'4"(or whatever size that brand makes in that area)to 11'6". I think it will be worth it to get the hay down a little faster, start drying, and I can move on to the next project a little sooner. I don't mow any alfalfa any longer, so I'm fine with flails. Mine have been maintenance free, and supposedly they dry grasses a little faster. As for brand name to buy.........I'm open to suggestions! I looked at a New Holland. They don't make a 11'6" model, and they don't seem to be built as heavy as they used to be. I also have a bitter taste in my mouth from some poor quality Chinese bearings going bad in the kicker of my BC5070. What I like about them is their reputation for drying hay quickly. Looked at a JD, but I'm leaning towards staying with Kuhn, or going with Krone. Kuhn and Krone seem to be built tougher, not just the frame, but the bearings themselves. I plan to visit a Krone and Kuhn dealer later this year to take a better look. I mow roughly 125 acres 3 three times/year.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

Sound like you got a good plan in place. Around here, almost everyone runs New Holland. That's mainly because it's the only dealer that's really worth giving your money to. But at the same time, everyone seems to be very successful and happy with NH... myself included. I'm sure Krone and Kuhn are good, and maybe even better?...I wouldn't know because I have no experience with them...actually, I've never even seen either brand around here...I take that back, I think I've seen a Kuhn rake on craigslist once or twice... anyhow, I just felt like I should defend New Holland a little there. Best of luck to you.


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## Brncntry112 (Jun 8, 2015)

Glad you've had success with NH. I run a pair of NH 258's with the double take hitch, and while I know a rotary would help get the hay off the field sooner, they're so expensive( I would need a double rotary) compared to those old NH's that need very little maintanence and just keep going and going. Had a NH 411 discbine before the Kuhn and it was a great machine till the rubber delaminated from the rolls(which they were known for). I liked it so much I told the dealer I wanted another. That's when he informed me the cutterbar in my NH was a Kuhn. So switched to Kuhn and it too, has been fabulous. The only real issue I've had with NH is those bearings on the 72 thrower. Very poor quality. When I called the dealer to order parts he said, got one of those do ya? Join the club! At least they have a much better quality bearing to replace it wth, but after ruining the expensive drive rollers, I'm not happy about it. Overall NH has been ok to me though through the years.


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