# What happened??



## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

Just about when I thought I had this hay making stuff half way figured out I get knocked down a peg or two.

I baled 9 acres of pretty heavy orchard grass clover hay with a small amount of timithy and alfalfa in it as well. Mowed it all on Monday from 5 to 8pm with a discbine was pretty wet had rained a little that morning. Was in mid 70s with 20% humidity and slight breeze stupid low humidity for my neck of the woods. Next day at noon I tedded it out and it was pretty dry and ground had dryed out well in between mower rows. Again all day Tuesday was in mid 70s 30% humidity and slight breeze good drying weather for me. Wednesday we raked with rotory rake at 1pm and by 3pm was rdy to bale or so we thought. Hay was almost to dry I thought stems snapping and brittle. Round baled up a few and if I let baler run while I went from windrow to windrow it was actually so brittle bale was getting smaller. So we hooked up square baler and baled 300 bales. Had some issues getting them tight enough i thought because it was to dry bales were tad on light side and baler was down as far as it would go but seemed ok and finished field off. Tested a few at 6% to 9% low but figured ok. I bale on ground then we pick them up later. So baled till done at 8pm and picked all bales up and stacked in wagon by 9 30. Nothing wet nothing damp all good I thought.

Here comes the problem I put wagon with 200 bales on it in my machine shed as I knew I had to work alot coming 2 weeks. I left wagon loaded in shed 3 weeks and when I went to unload it 2 nights ago I was pretty shocked to discover my hay was very dusty and smelled. Outside exposed to air was good inside all dusty not heavy mold just pretty dusty. Then entire wagon was this way so earlier loaded bales vs late or earlier baled bales vs later didn't matter.

Everything I've read on here and learned in 3 years I have no idea what I did wrong? Nothing during any phase of making this seemed like it would lead to moldy hay. I was more concerned with to dry lighter bales then mold until I went to unload.

Couple pictures of wagon before I unloaded it and while I still thought I had 200 horse quality bales lol!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Did you have foxtail in this field?

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Sorry to hear of that, I don't have any answers for you but I would scrap the moisture tester........


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Doesn't take many damp areas in a field to spoil a load like that. That sucks.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

None that I noticed but possibly could be some but would be very small amount. Here's few pictures of that field I took on this cutting if any clues from them.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

Depending on how much rain you had earlier the ground may still have been very damp when you were baling. It looks like you had a good heavy yield and the large windrows can pick up a lot of moisture from the ground. I've had times where we had to make additional passes with the rake in order to keep the bottoms of the windrow from picking up moisture faster than the tops could dry.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Flacer22

Have you had your moisture test checked for correct calibration lately? How old is your moisture tester?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Fossil02818 said:


> Depending on how much rain you had earlier the ground may still have been very damp when you were baling. It looks like you had a good heavy yield and the large windrows can pick up a lot of moisture from the ground. I've had times where we had to make additional passes with the rake in order to keep the bottoms of the windrow from picking up moisture faster than the tops could dry.


Agree. I would say ground moisture was wicked up by the dry hay.


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## qcfarms (Dec 14, 2014)

It could be that the trailers caused the issue. I know that I had left some hay on a trailer for a couple of days in the barn because I did not have time to unload. I did not lose the whole load but the bottom bales were very wet and this hay was put up at 15% moisture. I saw a video a few weeks back that talked about putting up quality hay and one of the things that was touched on was loading hay on trailers like your photos show. The video recommended that you put on galvanized metal mesh for the flooring instead of the wooden boards. The mesh would allow for air circulation up thru the hay and not just on the sides of the hay. Like you.....the more I know about putting up hay....the less I find out I really know.......


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

qcfarms said:


> Like you.....the more I know about putting up hay....the less I find out I really know.......


Seems like many of us are in that boat. I'm working on the 4th cutting of alfalfa. Cut it Wednesday during mid-day. Laid it out wide as the NH haybine could; tedded it Thursday morning; raked it after the visible dew was off between 8:30 and 10:00 AM Friday; and by 1:00 PM started baling as I thought it was sufficiently dry. Stopped baling bc of what I thought was excessive leaf loss. By evening Friday the stems were finger snapping dry. Saturday morning, Friday's bales tested 95 degrees and in the range of 18 to 28% moisture using an AgraTronics HT Pro meter. This is a new meter with the calibration clip and it tests about 35% moisture when the tip is held in my hand, as it should. However, I can't believe its readings when inserted 5 inches deep at a 45 degree angle into the top of the alfalfa bales as is recommended by AgraTronics support.

About 9:30 this AM the hygro-thermometer read in the range of 65 to 70% humidity near ground level in the windrow, so I started baling. Mistake!!! Bales are really tight and heavy with too much moisture. Hay plugged the NH hayliner, didn't shear the fly wheel pin, and pulled down the tractor. What next, I thought until realized the baler was plugged.

So am now waiting for alfalfa to get much dryer and am willing to risk leaf loss to avoid putting up hay that might mold.

Thought I had making alfalfa hay figured out based on what I learned on HT to the point that I even wrote out the procedure on MS Word. HA! Guess again!


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

This is my observation of conditions I have seen here. Those excellent drying conditions I don't see often surprise the tester and myself. The outside of the plant dry so quickly and completely the inside can't keep up. Under typical conditions the difference between the two is not so great.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

The only telling clue I can see from the pics......the ground does appear to be a bit damp. Those great drying days.....there seems to be an ominous looking cloud in one of the photos, not sure that's gonna lead to "optimum drying conditions" at least not here, humidity will skyrocket and pan evap will fall off with those conditions. One other thing I generally do with my MoCo....spread those sides out and lay in as wide a windrow as possible to achieve faster dry down, I suppose if one wanted to slow down the process then close them.....


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

How much clover in it? Clover routinely takes 1-2 days additional drying time hereabouts. Seems that it is harder to get the stems dryh.

Ralph


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Always stack small squares on edge, moisture will move out of the bale better. What was the weather like after the hay was in the barn? Extended rainy , high humidity means problems. Invest in an applicator and an inocl Ike Silo King.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

Was the shed closed up?


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Wednesday we raked with rotory rake at 1pm and by 3pm was rdy to bale or so we thought...... on our farm we have found that after we ted the tedder gets 95% of the hay but usually misses 5% of the hay, because maybe it was driven on when you mowed or maybe there's a ridge and the hay sticks to the low spot. If you look closely when you're running the rotary rake you will occasionally see a very green stock here and there I think many times those green stalks that sometimes are almost just as a moist as when you cut the hay because they were covered till the rake pick them up .Do cause the problems you're talking .about there. The climate we have here on our farm if we run the baler and only allow an hour or two from the time you raked that creates a problem.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

The first round bale in the row with only three bales or on the right side of the photo is a sure sign of hay not being dry the way it's squatting

Just because it looks and feels dry doesn't always mean it's dry. Have had it happen alot usually will heat and make alot of dust


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

The other thing I noticed is it looks like you're raking several windrows together for baling.
In MY area, I usually can't do this. I usually have to go with only 1 raked row for baling. If I rake 2 rows together, my readings are higher. With multiple raked rows, Less wind can blow through them and more ground moisture gets wicked-up.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Bishop said:


> Was the shed closed up?


That is my thought too. Tight barns can ruin even dry hay.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

My Meter is 2 years old and is an agrotonix with the clip on calibration thing. it seems to read right least from what I know and I calibrate it every time I use it.

I do commonly rake back and forth with my rotary rake and it makes a bigger wind row but maybe 18ft of tedded hay in one wind row.

I normally do stack hay on edge and when in barn I always do this is first year ive used wagon and was playing with different ways to stack it but that did cross my mind maybe stacking it and leaving it flat caused the problem but hay seemed just so dry that never dream even that would be an issue.

I think round bale is squatting because it took off down the hill and I had to get it out of the middle of the road after it jumped fence and ditch lol! actually had 2 take off on me that day.

Barn was closed up but id hardly say its air tight or even remotely close but weather next week we saw some humidity and very hot temperatures.

I almost wondered if it was possible for it to have been very dry on edges and leaves but the stems still held moisture?? it was super brittle and twist test seemed A ok but it did dry down faster then I thought it would. could stems have held moister yet still looked felt and acted dry???

I do have in that field 30 to 50% clover and on some places of my hay I have upwards of 75% clover

I kinda think it had something to do with stacking it on the wagon I cant explain why but I've baled hay that was like this in past with no problems and I've baled hay that seemed almost to wet no problems but this is the first time I've ever put hay on a wagon in the barn for an extended amount of time. what I cant explain is how is it stacked on a wagon in barn any different then stacked on wood floor of my hay mow???

I do want to get an applicator as my ground just does not always bond well to make consistent dry hay on but does that make bales heavier?? im already picking them up off ground on steep hills. also is there any way to adjust acid so that you can put more on wetter spots and less on dry spots without having to constantly stop and readjust? my conditions in oddly shaped fields and shady spots do typically lead to wet spots here and there. But that had nothing to do with this wagon load.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The hay went threw a sweat.
The clover doesn't dry as fast and probably wetter then you thought
Lack of ventilation in the building


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

haybaler101 said:


> Always stack small squares on edge, moisture will move out of the bale better.


Not always....like if you bale with a inline.....then you flip the bale. 

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I check the high spots first, then go to the bottom of the hill. If the high spot is super dry, the bottom can still be wet.

I'd still be betting that the clover was wetter than you thought!

Did you use a moco?

Ralph


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## Northcountryboy (May 5, 2015)

I am no expert by any means. But I would agree that the problem is the clover was not dry enough. My .02 cents


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

I have baled under similar conditions and had similar results with high clover content hay. My Delmhorst hand held tester will read lower right after baling but after the bales have had time to squeeze the moisture from deep in the stems the readings can really climb. I have learned to use the tester as just one way to gauge dryness while still falling back to my most trusted method- bale weight. We don't have a kicker wagon so I always pick up several bales behind the baler to check their density and weight. Water is heavier than hay and heavy bales are my signal to stop and let things dry a little more. I've learned to accept leaf loss and not strive for perfect 18% moisture hay.


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

First and foremost, it's the clover ........... it's a real tough cookie to dry.

I am an alfalfa farmer by and large but over time bale other forages including clover.

Regular testers used in a conventional way can not ........... can not see stem moisture in such crops as alfalfa or clover.

Others have posted that they use a moisture meter as one tool in a box of many ...... and that's what I have done for forty years of hay making.

With alfalfa, I test my stems with my finger nail ........ if the "hide peels" I take even more care in diagnosing just how many stems we are talking about ........ stem moisture is a real bearcat and few preservatives get at it and only at lower ranges of high moisture percentages.

The other matter is stacking a bunch of freshly baled hay on a wagon and letting it sit. All hay sweats after being baled. The only question is how much ........ the drier it is ........ it will sweat less but if there is any doubt ......... make sure you give it as much breathing room as you can.

But trust me ........ you have just received a learning lump .......... I have more than my share and anyone who says they did not get any ............

.......... has not hayed!

Best regards and welcome to the "University of Hay Making"!

Three 44s


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Have had the same and we were even using thrower wagons, the hay that was stacked in the mow kept fine, the stuff on the wagons that sat a week until the rain stopped heated and got dusty, and this was on wagons filled with a thrower, a guy would think being in every which way they'd breath a little better.

One big advantage to the Circle C rollers I'm running, the stem is cracked the whole length and moisture meters tend to work better as they get a reading of the whole stem.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Have had the same and we were even using thrower wagons, the hay that was stacked in the mow kept fine, the stuff on the wagons that sat a week until the rain stopped heated and got dusty, and this was on wagons filled with a thrower, a guy would think being in every which way they'd breath a little better.
> 
> One big advantage to the Circle C rollers I'm running, the stem is cracked the whole length and moisture meters tend to work better as they get a reading of the whole stem.


I've noticed that on the thrower wagons too. I've always figured it's because some bales are actually wedged in tighter than once they're hand stacked in the barn.

Anyway, this is why many people hate clover.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> Anyway, this is why many people hate clover.


Yes, clover is just a bother for most dry hay producers.....and if you take care of your fields and do a routine spray you are not usually bothered with clover unless you intentionally grow it. It is easier for me to buy nitrogen and apply than be bothered with clover fixation.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Late to this thread.

Firstly - we've had dusting problems where there was clover. I'm glad now we are rid of it.

I had a patch of hay last year that was clover free, but not conditioned when cut. It was laid out super wide and flat from a 7ft sickle bar mower. Hay was tedded and we felt like it was ready to bale after 4 days on the ground. Later, some of it showed signs of dusting - just a bit. This was second cutting too. IMHO, what had happened was, for this particular spot, some stemmy purple top grew into the hay. Not being conditioned, I felt that the stem moisture wasn't completely gone and we got some dust.

What I'm saying is - is your haybine properly set to crimp/crush the hay? Over time they can wear and loose adjustment - unnoticed.

This year we added a Hesston mower conditioner, model 1110, to the mix and the rollers were out of time and the roll gap was off. We fixed all that stuff before going to the field and when a stem, like Timothy, runs through the rollers, there is a crimp about every few inches - so much so that the stem drapes across your arm like a limp piece of rope. Hay dries GREAT,

My limited experience is clover, very hard to dry down - well conditioned hay dries really well.

YMMV

Bill

Edit: one thing I don't understand is how hay stacked on a wagon would cause dust or molding - if the wagon has a wood floor. It would seem to me the best place to store hay - well off the ground, free air all around.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

It could have been the clover but I actually planted it not like it came in as A weed. Due to my hay ground being all hills I'm very limited on what I can plant. Tilling is pretty much completely off the table unless I don't want any top soil left and completely killing will likely result in more erosion. So I drilled more grass and clover In to stand of sprayed orchard grass and broom. Result is alot of clover mixed with broom and orchard grass some alfalfa as well.

I mow with a moco 535 Deere with impellers and they re set as close as possible so it will beat clover up pretty bad. Any thoughts to first cutting having biggest stars thus hardest to dry??

And I still don't understand other how hay on wagon can mold but not hay in mow? Stacked same and stacked on wood what makes it different lol???


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I did a little experimenting before the rains came. I raked rows together and raked rows singly on part of the same field. Then tried baling 4x5 round bales in both. 
Moisture levels were 16-18% on the single rows, which is acceptable for mushroom/mulch hay (buyer wants under 20%)
Double rows were consistently 24% or higher, so I discontinued baling after a few bales.

I do think if clover was present that may be the problem. Clover is evil to dry down.

I wonder if impeller conditioning works better on clover than rolls?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Flacer22 said:


> And I still don't understand other how hay on wagon can mold but not hay in mow? Stacked same and stacked on wood what makes it different lol???


Is there a possible difference in the wood on the wagon and the barn floor (I would guess yes, if you could check moisture of each)?

Are the bales in the barn stacked on 'old' drier chaff (I have had hay mold in barn on new chaff, while same hay on old did not)?

Are the bales in the barn stacked the same as on the wagon (not criss-crossed, cut side up, etc.)?

What is the hay in the round bales like?

Suspects have already been identified - clover, low spots, possible un-tedded hay, un-crimped hay and barn ventilation.

No matter how 'dry' the hay seems, you still get that wonderful smell from alfalfa in the barn while it 'sweats'. That sweat is moisture I have been told.

Ah, the learning curve, just when you 'think' you have making hay mastered.

As mentioned - moisture meters are a 'tool', just as the weather forecast, you need to apply your stuff, for YOUR area.

I sent in samples of my hay, one thing that I have started doing is checking the moisture from the sampled areas, with one of my meters, so far, I am finding it off by 2-4% (higher, than lab).

My two cents, Larry

PS As long as your runaways did not do any major damage consider yourself lucky. The local yahoo, my wife married, may have had more than his share of runaways, including a couple that went swimming in the creek. :lol:


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

Flacer22 said:


> I still don't understand other how hay on wagon can mold but not hay in mow? Stacked same and stacked on wood what makes it different lol???


Could it be that the bales on the trailer happened to be the last baled? And/or the last picked up? Maybe dew started to fall when finishing up. (We tend to start loading what we bale first.). Could be the baling got a little tough and some dew started to fall on the bales before they got stacked on trailer.


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## Flacer22 (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm a bit of a ocd when it comes to cleaning so each year at end of winter I clean my hay mows out sweep all loose hay and chaff out and discard all broken or bad bales. So all my hay gets stored at first on dry barn wood.

They were stacked differently hay in mow cross crossed stacked on edge wagon was flat side down straight up 5 rows of 6 then 6 rows deep. Idk maybe that made diffrence??

I did think since I had 200 on wagon and baled 300 I do have 100 from same day field and all I put in hay mow that night I need to check on and see if they are any good. I did sell one of the round bales and from all my Inspection of it it appears to be ok. Waiting on guy that bought it to call me when he gets it all opened up to let me know.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Flacer22 said:


> They were stacked differently hay in mow cross crossed stacked on edge wagon was flat side down straight up 5 rows of 6 then 6 rows deep. Idk maybe that made diffrence??


Years ago when before we when to acid, anytime we had damp or heavy bales (before we had meters), we stacked them on edge, cut side up, criss-crossed (some times even throwing salt on them).

When to using acid, and at that time, it was 'recommended' to stack hay on edge cut side up. Did it that way ever since. Theory was moisture evaporates and migrates up, cut ends up help, along with the gaps from criss-crossing, allowing the moisture to move easier.

Your 'experiment' (accidently by the way) appears to prove the theory is possible.

My two cents.

Larry

PS we use to clean our barn floors too, by sweeping them (feed to the cows, naturally), found sometimes with acid treated hay (if it was used), would mold on bottom layer on clean floor, but by accident (not actually, us kids just did not clean the floor spotless), that hay on a little chaff did not mold. So we went to just cleaning with pitch forks and no brooming the floor clean as a whistle.


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