# School me on the NRCS programs



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

I have seen several of you mention this in the past, so I did some investigating and came across the NRCS and started reading ...

I talked to my local office ( SC ) today, very nice fella, he gave me the short version of what the programs were and some of what they will assist with..

I have a appointment next Friday for a sit down with him for more details but I would like to hear some of the pros & cons from you fellas so I can think about this..

He asked about my plans for my land, what my plan was for increasing my cow herd, etc... He said their is money for fencing, field improvement, adding water if needed, etc.

I knew about some of this stuff but always thought it best to not let the gov know too much so I never thought much about it... but as he stated, I've been paying taxes close to 50yrs, it's my tax money and if I don't use it they will spend it somewhere else... made sense to me...

So school me on the pros & cons please...

Chris


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Not to be sarcastic, but I no longer do business with any government bodies--it's just too expensive!

About 12 years ago, I had a contract agreement with the NRCS to put in some dry damns. They went through all their planning and studies and said that it would cost something like $15,000 to put in 9 structures and that I would not loose any production land and that the back sides of all structures would be usable and maintainable (meaning mow-able). It was a 60-40 deal-they would pay 60% of the estimated costs.

After 6 structures were built, the bill had exceeded $25,000 and the guy doing the dirt work could not move enough dirt to make the back side grades 3-to-1. I called a stop to the deal. I have battled erosion and flow control since the the structures were put in. The soil was so damaged on 6 acres, that after 10 years, I am now finally getting some production out of it.

The deal sounded good, but, all told, it has cost me close to $30,000 for additional design, dirt work and lost income.

But, they are right about one thing--it is your taxes and if you don't use it, they will spend it somewhere else.

Ralph

Fool me once, shame on you......


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I did 3 terraces and it worked out pretty well for me.IIRC it was a $30,000 project.The backside is farmable and they are drained by tile.They work well and very satisfied with it.

BUT all the sudden I get a letter and said I'm supposed to be leaving more cover on my land.I said we talked about this and you agreed my farming practice fit the parameters and now you say they don't WTF.Well they dropped it anyway but all the sudden they want you to do everything there way.

There is always a catch!!!!


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Yea, I know their will be something I'm not expecting...

All I am really interested in is fencing, pasture help, hay field help, don't need more water or dirt moved, already spent a small fortune on terraces on one section, it's very steep, so bad it's not very safe, and a creek is at the bottom, no erosion trouble but it's not very fertile soil and it requires replanting grass every so often...

I am already doing the above myself but it's costly as you all know..

I wouldn't hire anything out I would still do the work myself..

I just ordered 100tons of lime for the land but soil samples say everything needs P&K , some parts are really low... do the grants help with the nutrients the land needs?

I'll get some of the answers next week maybe...


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Always ask how many years you are bound by their services. NRCS wants me to plant a tree buffer along the river as the dang beavers are destroying many of them now. So they want me to plant trees that are not desirable by the beavers. They will give me the money to purchase saplings but I have to plant them and agree not to touch them for 5 years.....after that I can mow them down if I want. They are going to pay me five figures over 5 years to do this. I have to make up my mind next week.

I had a slobber knocker storm come through last week and tore up Jack. Branches, limbs, and a few trees were scattered all along the river which I had to pick and clean up before mowing hay......it made me think, "do I really want to plant a bunch of trees"? So I don't know if I want any of my tax dollars or not.....still contemplating.

I did do a conservation plan with the NRCS for five years several years ago.....that was a good deal as it did not encumber me at all hardly.

Regards, Mike


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

I did mention I had 7ac clear cut last year, he said they won't pay for stumping but would pay if I planted trees... I kept my mouth shut, I have no plans to plant more of what I just cut down, I need more grass some day so I can support more cows at some point..lol


----------



## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

I used NRCS to take out row crop and plant Bermuda. I had to maintain the Bermudagrass for 5 years. I did have to wait a year to get approved but all went good . That was 10 years ago. Things just progress slow with them.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I did cross fencing with them last year. It paid $1.80 per foot. Had to do H braces to their specs. Worked out well.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I am considering replacing my open feed lot dirt pens with barns with an open concrete pen outside the barn. At the advice of my neighbor who is an ex NRCS employee I stopped by the local NRCS office to see what what programs were available. They would provide money for barns replacing open lots--but only if the animals were always under a roof and there was a $ limit per project. Hasta la vista . . .


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Gearclash said:


> I am considering replacing my open feed lot dirt pens with barns with an open concrete pen outside the barn. At the advice of my neighbor who is an ex NRCS employee I stopped by the local NRCS office to see what what programs were available. They would provide money for barns replacing open lots--but only if the animals were always under a roof and there was a $ limit per project. Hasta la vista . . .


i asked them the same thing and wanted open lots also.First off I didn't qualify with their point system.We had created a retention pond for feedlot run off when we needed clay for fill and it settled out runoff from feedlot.And by doing this and stopping manure from running down the ditch it disqualified me.So by doing a good thing on our own it disqualified me from the program.On top of that they didn't like my idea of open lots.I think the open lots fly with them if you catch 100% of the run off with a lagoon.No thanks!I built it myself the way I wanted and a lot cheaper then how they wanted it anyway.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> .No thanks!I built it myself the way I wanted and a lot cheaper then how they wanted it anyway.


I've taken the same approach. I design and build my own dry dams and waterways. They're cheaper, more effective, and, if I don't like the way they're working, I can easily change them.

Ralph


----------



## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

If you open your gates for the government, that's on you. I like to keep the government on the outside of my fences.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Not for me.....but while his premise may be applicable, should we try to get food stamps as well? What about other programs (non-farming) should we try to use that as well? After all, we paid in the money.....if circumstances are such that I genuinely need the help, I'll be in line....otherwise, I'm on the other side of the fence. Good luck with them.....


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I do know some folks that have used them with good results, with a few hoops to jump thru.....
I'm just not a fan of any of it where the gubmint is involved.....


----------



## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

Personally.......after experiences with them........wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Make it 12' pole.


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Well I'm going to see what he has to say, like I said, I don't like the gov knowing anything... but I'm open minded enough to see what he says... and I will have what Y'all have said in mind also..


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

SCtrailrider said:


> Well I'm going to see what he has to say, like I said, I don't like the gov knowing anything... but I'm open minded enough to see what he says... and I will have what Y'all have said in mind also..


Just be careful--Don't get suckered by the free money.

Ralph


----------



## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I am participating in their Conservation Stewardship Program (CSP). They pay me so much an acre to maintaining soil health. Not even close to what I spend, but it is something. I had to jump through a few hoops, but so far it has worked. I owe a lot to my local NRCS man. He is great to work with and I don't know if I would participate if I had to work with someone else.

With that said, just be aware that money received under NRCS programs is TAXABLE INCOME.

The Bermuda I sprigged this year was done under the NRCS EQUIP program. Same program that does fences and water tanks. 75% cost share and you front the money. Again, it worked out good for me. I know a number of folks who have done fences and water tanks and all have been happy. Again, we have a great local guy.

Good luck.


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Personally no government programs for me.....maybe it is some of my tax dollars I would be getting back but by that time it's no longer mine and it's the governments money I would be getting. Everything has a catch and it won't be held over my head later on that I used their money. I have got letters in the mail wanting me to apply for programs and such but they go straight to the trash can just like that 'required by law' ag census. The way I see it as long as I don't take any of their money what grow/produce is none of their business.

Hayden


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

The guberment pays one farmer to not farm and graze some land mainly CRP programs that pay more then farming it or grazing it.Then they turn around and pay others for fencing etc.

Just talking with a customer that was trying to tile some ground and couldn't get approval so he put it in CRP for $275 an acre.

And the one really burns me is people buying ground and putting it and CRP for their own private hunting reserve on the tax payers dime.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

One of the local farmers hereabouts was complaining about the USDA programs. They were constantly on him about residue percentage, etc. (He is kinda argumentative.) They threatened that if he did any tillage, he would not qualify for their handouts.

I asked him if the government payments he was getting exceeded what he would make by not complying. He couldn't answer--he was so focused on the "free" money that he couldn't see past the issue.

Essentially, they were taking a $1 from him, giving 50 cents to somebody else, keeping 40 cents for their expenses and giving him a dime back. And meanwhile costing him $2 to abide by their rules.

Yet all he could see was that dime he was getting. Just couldn't understand that it cost him $2.90.

Public education!

Ralph


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah I talked to the NRCS guy a few years back when we were switching from row crops to cattle. Looked at the cross-fencing and remote watering cost-share stuff...

I discussed the fact that I wanted to cross-fence the 87 acres at Needville into 4 equal pastures and do rotational grazing, and that 3 of the pastures had close access to water from wells at my, my brothers, and my folk's house water wells, so watering those pastures wouldn't be an issue, but the back 40 acres would require running water to it. I wanted to apply for cost-share and do the work myself. I planned to put a regular water trough back there, and use my subsoiler that I had equipped with a boot to lay plastic water line back there to it to run poly-pipe from the old folk's well to the trough. "OH, no..." the guys says... "you have to do it to OUR standards"... Then he launched into telling me what their "standards" were...

Basically, they'd have to look at it and "assess" the situation. They would calculate the length of the run from the folk's water well to the proposed water trough site, and then calculate pressure drop through the line to calculate the "required" pipe size... I told him I'd measured it by hand it was about a 400 foot run... He looked on his chart and said, "oh, that'll require at least a 2.5 inch water line so pressure drop isn't excessive at the far end." I was like "well, I can lay 3/4 inch poly pipe through my subsoiler boot, maybe 1 inch poly pipe..." He said, "Nope, you'll have to hire it done or rent a trencher and lay 2.5 inch pipe back there..." That's just to get the water there... then he started telling me about the trough requirements.

A plain steel trough won't cut it. Nope, gotta be an 8x12 or so double-thick concrete trough that they have delivered by rollback truck from a special contractor. You have to do the prep work for it and then they bring it out. First you have to dig a hole about 1.5 feet deep where the trough will sit, plus an extra 6 feet all the way around the perimeter of the trough, so IOW a hole about 20x24 or 20x28 feet in size (can't recall if the trough was 8x12 or 8x14). Then you have to line the hole with ground cloth, and then fill it back in with crushed stone. Then they come set the trough in the middle of it, so there's a 6 foot crushed stone "pad" for the cattle to stand on while watering all the way around the trough. THEN, you have to pour a 3 foot wide concrete "sidewalk" all the way around THAT, so that the cows don't track mud and sh!t onto the stone pad as they come up to water... It was just RIDICULOUS... I was looking for about $250 in 50/50 cost share to put in about

$500 for a water trough and a 400 foot roll of poly tube, and these A-holes come up with this cadillac plan that would have cost me probably $10,000 to do... just to get $5,000 back in cost-share... plus, then be subject to their "inspections" for the next TWENTY-FIVE YEARS...

No thanks...

Then we started discussing cross-fencing. I had already put up the perimeter fence, 5 strand Gaucho barb wire with concreted-in steel corners, and 6.5 foot T-posts on 10 foot centers all the way around the farm. I was thinking for the cross-fencing, going with 4 strands of Gaucho on RR tie H-braces/gate posts with 6.5 foot T-posts on 15 foot spacings. "Nope" he said... "Gotta be done to our standards"... Then he proceeded to print off FOURTEEN PAGES of fencing "requirements" complete with their specification drawings stating the post type and size, backfill requirements, H-brace construction requirements, etc. ad nauseam and I had had enough...

What you'll probably find out is, if you planned on doing it "the farmer way" that they'll come at you with requirements that will cost you FIVE TIMES as much to do it "their way" just to get half the money back, so you STILL will end up paying over TWICE AS MUCH in the end than you intended to spend doing it all yourself in the first place, PLUS have them looking over your shoulder and snooping around for the next quarter century... Fencing was only 15 or 20 years, BUT, I asked, "Okay, what happens if in five years the cattle market TOTALLY tanks and we decide to roll up the fences, plow it all up, and put it in row crops again?? "Oh, then you'd be in non-compliance... so long as you're not 'spot checked' you'd be okay, BUT if you ARE, then you'd have to pay back all the cost-share money PLUS INTEREST from the time the cost-share money was issued..."

Yeah, like DOUBLE "No-thanks"...

When you listen to the gubmint music, you have to dance to THEIR TUNE...

No thanks, they can keep the money and waste it as they see fit, and I'll live my life much more happily without their meddling...

Later! OL J R


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

Well I spent half the day talking to the fella, nice guy and informative.

I don't have a perimeter fence up yet and they don't do perimeter fencing so we didn't go into cross fencing.

About all I'm thinking about at this point is over seeding hay fields.

Here they will help with clover seeding the fields. I will be over seeding the fields anyway this September with Fescue myself.

I am going to go ahead and start the process as the cut off is mid Aug. for next year.

I am considered "a beginner Vet" so I'm the highest percentage group.

I figure I don't half to sign anything until I know more, the clover or Legume planting wouldn't be till early spring so I have some time to figure seed cost and think about this more. At this time I'm not looking for much from them, and this first small amount will be a good chance to see how this all REALLY plays out..

Thanks for everyone's input...


----------

