# Flail Mowers - what do people think of them.



## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

I looking at getting a Maschio Gireffetta 160SE for my Bobcat CT 235 tractor to do field edge clean up and ditch bank mowing. Also for pasture maintenance. I understand these units do a much better job of mulching and not leaving grass clomps like a 3pt rotary does. Thoughts?

PS: I can handle the weight. after working with my new hay rake that weighs more.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

I do know that some flail mowers come in standard or reverse rotation, the benefit of one or the other I don't know, unless it is how fine the cut is. My own uneducated self, A flail in stubble will give you a nice cut. For me edge clean up and ditch banks it woulds depend on what I was cutting and possible obstructions. Cutter shafts on flails are more delicate than the underside of most rotaries. A hydraulic offset is real nice doing ditch banks and around obstructions.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> I looking at getting a Maschio Gireffetta 160SE for my Bobcat CT 235 tractor to do field edge clean up and ditch bank mowing. Also for pasture maintenance. I understand these units do a much better job of mulching and not leaving grass clomps like a 3pt rotary does. Thoughts?
> 
> PS: I can handle the weight. after working with my new hay rake that weighs more.


I am interested in buying the bigger Maschio version. I think its a 90", but concerned about parts availibility.. Dealer from Iowa seems to have best prices. I like it because you can pull it behind you like a trailed flail mower, then extend it to cut banks, ponds, etc.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks Folks

Parts should not be a problem as I believe they have two US warehouses. The big one is in Iowa near Iowa Farm Equipment. Those are the folks I am talking too. Very helpful and they want to make sure the unit will work for me. Maschio has also been in business in Europe for a long time

Wear parts like the flails and belts are available from a lot of others sources too. As the company is also ISO rated I believe bearings are standard sizes too.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> Thanks Folks
> Parts should not be a problem as I believe they have two US warehouses. The big one is in Iowa near Iowa Farm Equipment. Those are the folks I am talking too. Very helpful and they want to make sure the unit will work for me. Maschio has also been in business in Europe for a long time
> 
> Wear parts like the flails and belts are available from a lot of others sources too. As the company is also ISO rated I believe bearings are standard sizes too.


I understood all that to be true, too. However, if sales don't catch on in the states, they will pull their dealerships in the US.
All that said, it might be my next mower purchase, too. Looks great for maintaining field edges.

Kuhn makes 'em, too.
http://www.kuhnnorthamerica.com/us/range/landscape-tools/offset-mowers/tb-211.html


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Looks like I will be ordering the Maschio Giraffetta 160SE tomorrow. The folks at Iowa Farm Equipment have been good to work with.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yoda....I would think about it a bit more before ordering. If I looked at the specs correctly your Bobcat would be way too light for that mower and the wheelbase too small. The lift capacity for your tractor is a little over 1500 pounds and the mower you listed weighs over 1500 pounds.....that's alot of weight on that compact tractor. Also, you only have 26 PTO hp and the minimums are listed at 40. If you let that mower down over the edge of a bank, you might not be able to pull it back up safely....

One always needs more lift capacity and HP than the minimum for safety and proper equipment operation.

The mower weighs half as much as the tractor....that is not a good ratio.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/006/4/2/6423-bobcat-ct235.html

http://www.maschio.co.uk/products/flail-mowers/giraffa-offset-flail-mower/


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

YODA said:


> PS: I can handle the weight. after working with my new hay rake that weighs more.


It will be a totally different proposition with that much weight on your 3 point hitch than it was pulling a rotary rake on wheels....plus all that weight will be pulling to one side.

Another thing Yoda is that mower is listed for Category 2/3 tractors....I am sure yours is rated Category 1.

Regards, Mike


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

I am talking about the Giraffetta not the Giraffa - two different animals. Even I got confused when looking up information - must be my Italian.   Weight is 926lbs and when working all weight is on the ground. My rake sits further out and is heavier. I did the weight test on my PZ 170 mower, adding 200 lbs to the outside at 8' to the side and was OK too.

Take a look here http://www.maschio.com/catalog/product/giraffetta-usa/en_US. The picture is of the SI model with the inboard gear box. SE is outboard. Much of the HP required is to get weight on the tractor. I am at 3600lbs and can add more weight in my bucket if needed. Old suitcase weights are hard to find in my neck of the woods, so I have a stack of concrete blocks.

Also down load the brochure on that page and look at page 21. Unit is Cat 1. Whats funny it is for tractors with a 150 CM (59") and less width. I am at 63" , but the units offset dimensions work getting the pivot point just outside of my tire. The other thing in comparing against the only other unit that will work - Peruzzo Elk Cross 1600, is that units arms are longer to get the same reach and after doing the math, even being lighter, would put more weight on my unit at max extension. http://www.iowafarmequipment.com/peruzzo-tractor-elk-cross-flail-mowers.html I needed a unit that allows me to stay on the flat with the mower over the bank, and not have the tractor on the side slope as I have seen is so many videos and documentation

They also list the Maschio information here http://www.iowafarmequipment.com/maschio-boom-ditch-mower-girafetta.html

I know I will be at my max weight, but I am used to that given I am baling with a Hesston 4550, the PZ 170, and now the Kubota RA1035 rake. I just go slow, wear my seat belt and pay attention.

If you think I am still flawed here, please speak up.

PS I have quietly been looking at a true 35+ HP PTO tractors - dont tell the boss unit


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Phew....that is better. I was afraid you were going to "buy the ranch" with that heavy of a piece. It is good that it rides the ground but one wants to be careful turning and when on slopes. Yep, my Italian word recognition is not the best Keith...those two models are amazingly close in spelling but much different in actuality. It will probably do everything that you spoke about.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Yoda,

You will be well pleased when you up your hp. I went from a unit slightly larger @28.5 pto hp to a small "utility" tractor @64 pto. All smiles. And, in another 10 monrhs or so, it will be paid off.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks Mike - I have been looking for over 4 months now - Several dealers say I can run it with no problem, and a few others have differing opinions. I have plenty of HP to spin it, just need to go slow moving it, especially on the ditch bank. Most of my mowing will be on the flat, maybe 3% on the slope.

DeadMoose - it will be a while, but it sure is an education - especially with all of the Tire 4 stuff, but used is OK too if I know the history. Thanks for the good thoughts. What brands did you consider and what did you get if if I may ask.

Now back to fitting tire chains. I am custom fitting a set to maintain clearance. A link here and there makes quite a difference.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Did you haggle any with them on price?

I'm looking at the biggest one. Its like 9 & change with delivery.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Did you haggle any with them on price?
> 
> I'm looking at the biggest one. Its like 9 & change with delivery.


Their prices are well below anyone else I have found , at least for the model I wanted, and believe me I looked. Shop around - you never know. Be prepared that most dealers dont stock much and will need to order in - that's what I found.

I believe I will be getting a few spare hammers thrown in - Ill know tomorrow. Their shipping rates are good too. They have gone overboard to answer any questions and have sent photos and verified measurements to be sure it would fit my tractor.

Which model are you looking at?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390381112634?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

YODA said:


> DeadMoose - it will be a while, but it sure is an education - especially with all of the Tire 4 stuff, but used is OK too if I know the history. Thanks for the good thoughts. What brands did you consider and what did you get if if I may ask.


I will be honest-I went in with a few biases. When buying the L Kubota, i did all my due diligence on about all brands. It treated me very well. My brother purchased an M7040 the year before I did. I liked his a lot. I really only looked at Kubota-due to trade factor. I was given a generous trade in quote (I thought amd still think). That and the financing were crucial for me at that time. The looming tier 4 regs helped me decide to buy then.

That bias there, the comparable models in other colors did not appeal to me. All seemed very cheaply built compared to the Kubota. Step up a series and a price range, and things change.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Forgot to mention dealer. The dealer I bought my current tractor from was fabulous to work with. Small time dealer.

Would you upgrade or buy an additional tractor?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> That bias there, the comparable models in other colors did not appeal to me. All seemed very cheaply built compared to the Kubota. Step up a series and a price range, and things change.


Very logical way to purchase...by a legitimate series comparison...apples to apples...many do not.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

NH workmaste and Deere E series are comparable. IMHO the Kubota M is much better built. Or at least looks like it.

Step into a D or M Deere is definitely a step up in price. Similar comps in other colors I am sure.

Time will tell what color the next one is. I have an inkling it will not be a replacement for the Kubota, but a complement. That is a bit out on the horizon as of yet though.

If I had a winning lotto ticket, something like a 6420 sure would look nice next to it. Or a 9540 with a cab. Or many others...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The E series Deere would not be a good choice as of recent according to what I have been told by Deere mechanics and owner/operators.....problematic.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> NH workmaste and Deere E series are comparable. IMHO the Kubota M is much better built. Or at least looks like it.
> 
> Step into a D or M Deere is definitely a step up in price. Similar comps in other colors I am sure.
> 
> ...


A larger operator in my area used to always give me crap about my "Jap tractors" with all his JD superiority bullcrap.

That is until the day his Deere took a dump and he called me looking for me and my Kubota to come over and unload his truck full of big squares.

Aint heard nothing from him about Kubota since then.


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

We use an M6800 around here for cleaning out chicken houses and about everything else. Absolutely no complaints at all


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390381112634?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Now I am jealous. Consider the SE model as it will reach a bit further if you need that. SE has the outboard gear box. There are other models even heavier with more guts if you need that.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> Forgot to mention dealer. The dealer I bought my current tractor from was fabulous to work with. Small time dealer.
> 
> Would you upgrade or buy an additional tractor?


Probably upgrade - the boss unit would hang me if I got a second one. She complains about all the iron I have now. I know I will get heck just for the flail mower after getting the rake. But come tax time things might be different. Deductions on the sch F go a long way. Already been talking to the tax man. I can have new equipment, or pay Obama. I think the deduction is worth about $0.75 on the dollar based on where I am at this year. What I dont get this year, rolls to the next few years on deprecation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> Now I am jealous. Consider the SE model as it will reach a bit further if you need that. SE has the outboard gear box. There are other models even heavier with more guts if you need that.


Yeah I saw that, but does the SE trial centered behind the tractor when folded all the way in? 
I want it all. I want a flail mower that will cover my tires when folded, reach out far when offset, and mow vertically. I really want an 8 footer, too.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Yeah I saw that, but does the SE trial centered behind the tractor when folded all the way in?
> I want it all. I want a flail mower that will cover my tires when folded, reach out far when offset, and mow vertically. I really want an 8 footer, too.


Probably not - you need to look at the diagrams and figure it out. I am so used to side cutters I did not worry about that. Here is a link to metric conversions I use so you can understand the European way  . Also check to be sure the pivot point is outside you rear tire. Usually the D-A number. Hope this helps.

http://www.convertunits.com/from/centimetre/to/inch


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm going to replace my MX-8 with one of these flails. However, I still have some small good paying accounts where a 7-8 foot trailing mower is needed.


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## Mglr (Feb 26, 2014)

I have an Alamo interstater mower. It goes a good job of mulching up what it cuts. This year I replaced my old Service rotary mower with a Spearhead multi cut. It has optional mulching blades. I like my flail mower but my new Spearhead makes the nicest cut and mulches circles around the flail. I have been more pleased with it than any mower I have ever owned. Part of that is due to the great service from Price Bros Equiptment in Wichita, Kansas.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Well it is ordered - Ill update when it arrives


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> Well it is ordered - Ill update when it arrives


Thanks YODA
Looking forward to the feedback. Kuhn version is a lot more $$


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Thanks YODA
> Looking forward to the feedback. Kuhn version is a lot more $$


Here are some photos of the two unis I considered mounted on a very similar but slightly wider tractor to mine. I decided on the Giraffetta.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks YODA


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

I do have pictures of the other model I was considering - Peruzzo - Elk Cross, if anyone is interested. They were taken to check the fit on my tractor. It coats less than the model I chose.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Got the news - should be in the middle to end of the week. More later


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Well YODA, I sold my trusty Deere MX 8 with hydraulic swing today for $5,000.
I'm plunking it all down on a new hydraulic swing flail, but don't know which one yet.
I'm following your input closely!
I wonder if KUHN is worth an extra $2,000?


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Kuhn makes excellent equipment. I have one of their PZ 170 drum mowers. Very well made and is wonderful to run. I did a lot of homework before buying (check over at TBN)

All I can say is check to be sure it fits your needs. I needed a swing arm offsetable to do everything I needed. Previously I had a 6' brush hog (Bobcat brand) that just could not get where I wanted to cut. Maschio had the unit to fit my needs and IFE was good to work with. Ill know the end of the week on the final answer. Do your research.

Bottom line - in equipment I have learned that Quality is worth the price. Do you have a good dealer to stand behind you? Work out a good deal the ask for some spare wear parts. Now is the time to buy in the down season. Dealers are figuring their spring orders and I suspect as with most companies the dealers get an incentive on how big the spring order is. Go in a arm wrestle - you never know 

Hope this helps.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

YODA said:


> Kuhn makes excellent equipment. I have one of their PZ 170 drum mowers. Very well made and is wonderful to run. I did a lot of homework before buying (check over at TBN)
> 
> All I can say is check to be sure it fits your needs. I needed a swing arm offsetable to do everything I needed. Previously I had a 6' brush hog (Bobcat brand) that just could not get where I wanted to cut. Maschio had the unit to fit my needs and IFE was good to work with. Ill know the end of the week on the final answer. Do your research.
> 
> ...


Was going to ask you same thing. I was skeptical about Maschio because dealer is way far from me in Iowa. I would be helpless for service other than what I can do and parts are a long way off. 
On the other hand, I have a BIG local Kuhn dealer. Parts, service no problem. I would think the Kuhn would be built heavier than the "Italian job", but $2,000 buys a lot of fuel, insurance, etc. know what I mean?


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Well its here and I am very impressed with the build quality. Welds are great and except for a few small scratches it arrived in excellent condition. This unit uses very good gauge metal and welds are excellent. Good paint job too. There is some assembly required with one of the link arms and hoses. No big deal, but missing instructions. I do have lots of pictures in the user manual and parts manual that came with it, so no problem.

I am attaching a few pictures so folks know it is real.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Looks like a nice mower. Probably one of those pieces that only the owner operates...wouldn't be too hard for a hired hand to bend up the linkage, no matter how heavy built...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

PaMike said:


> Looks like a nice mower. Probably one of those pieces that only the owner operates...wouldn't be too hard for a hired hand to bend up the linkage, no matter how heavy built...


Don't be too sure. 
It has a breakaway feature so if it hits a tree it swings back to avoid damage (at least the Giaraffa model does).


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

This one has the same linkage - to a point. You need to pay attention. In my case as old as I am going slow is a plus. I hope to have it up and running mid week. Weather after tomorrow is rain - we need it - we need lots of snow up high. Ill keep you updated - this is fun.

Keith

PS: PaMike - only I will be running this


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> Don't be too sure.
> It has a breakaway feature so if it hits a tree it swings back to avoid damage (at least the Giaraffa model does).


Breakaway probably doesn't work well if your backing up and the roller catches on a unseen short stump. Somebody did that with mine. Being a one horse show, well more like a borrow the one horse, it's hard to blame it on "the other guy" but I wouldn't do anything like back up with the mower down.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Its almost assembled. I had to Call Iowa Farm Equipment on a parts question - 4 small brass thin washers. The folks were great - the go with the hydraulic fitting on the cylinders. Weather put a damper on the final hose fitting - rain and cold, so will wait until Wednesday - supposed to be sunny. The more I work on this the more I am impressed with the build quality.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Wethay said:


> Breakaway probably doesn't work well if your backing up and the roller catches on a unseen short stump. Somebody did that with mine. Being a one horse show, well more like a borrow the one horse, it's hard to blame it on "the other guy" but I wouldn't do anything like back up with the mower down.


Yeah, maybe, but theres dozens of different ways to screw up equipment. Cant just hide under the covers-works gotta get done, you know?

I dont know too many other machines that will cut pond banks and branches overhanging fields.

Hardee and Bush Hog make extendable rotary mowers, just as expensive, and subject to damage.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Well I got it up and running. This is a sweet unit with zero vibration when running. Weight is not an issue - works well. I do need to lower the roller so side skids to not leave ruts.

Attaching photos for the unit attached.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

What size did you get? 
Guy at Iowa wants me to buy a lightly used Giarafona. It's an 8 footer. Needs 140HP!!! 
The 80" much lower HP requirement and price.

I'm still mulling over my options and trying to come to grips with the costs.


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

I have the Giraffetta 160SE rated at 35 to 45HP. I am running it with 26.5 PTO HP. I think some of the HP ratings are to get a heavier tractor to handle the offset weight.

If you considering an offset unit, please check you rear tire width against the offset dimensions of the unit. You need the pivot point beyond your tire to safely stay on the flat and mow down the bank. The SE with its outside gear box reaches further.

As for the cost, yes they are more, but the versatility is worth it to me.

BTW what size and weight tractor do you have? PTO HP? The unit he mentioned is 2398lbs - can you lift that much if it 3' behind you and hung out 8 foot to the side? Center of mass would be a bit less.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

That seems odd, I ran an offset 8 ft seppi mulcher with my mf 5455 and it's nothing like the load my mower conditioner puts on it. I'm running an offset 6 ft seppi mulcher on my 50 hp Kubota, the weight is not a big issue, the power is. I think it would need 70 ish hp tractor to really work the 6 ft in heavy grass. Brush and branches/ slash is no trouble on lower hp.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> That seems odd, I ran an offset 8 ft seppi mulcher with my mf 5455 and it's nothing like the load my mower conditioner puts on it. I'm running an offset 6 ft seppi mulcher on my 50 hp Kubota, the weight is not a big issue, the power is. I think it would need 70 ish hp tractor to really work the 6 ft in heavy grass. Brush and branches/ slash is no trouble on lower hp.


I think it's a weight issue. The Giaraffona weighs close to 2,000lbs. When you cantilever that much weigh fully extended to cut branches along a field on on a bank, it could pull you over. Rolling along the ground it's no big deal.

Read specs here. I'm being offered the "260" by Iowa Farm Machinery.
http://www.maschio.com/catalog/product/giraffona/en_GB


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Looking at it I see it can offset more than the seppi. That would make a huge difference. Weights are similar though.

Mine doesn't have the pivot feature, only looks like this:
https://goo.gl/images/OUybJB


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I think it's a weight issue. The Giaraffona weighs close to 2,000lbs. When you cantilever that much weigh fully extended to cut branches along a field on on a bank, it could pull you over. Rolling along the ground it's no big deal.
> 
> Read specs here. I'm being offered the "260" by Iowa Farm Machinery.
> http://www.maschio.com/catalog/product/giraffona/en_GB


Its 2600 lbs here http://www.iowafarmequipment.com/maschio-tractor-flail-mowers-giraffona.htmlCan you handle that?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My JCB can no problem 
Kubota M126 is borderline
I would be fine with Giaraffa, but it's only a 80" cut


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## YODA (Oct 24, 2013)

Will the offset clear you rear tire to pivot correctly?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Well I'm still researching, but I'm also getting ready to buy.
Down to a Ferri ZHE2500,
Ferri ZME2300,
Or Kuhn TBE2300

The bigger Ferri is really heavy at over 3,000lbs and requires an 11,000lb tractor. My M126X is probably 11,500. However, I don't want to use that tractor for the flail mower.
I want to use my hopefully incoming McCormick CX110 which only weights 10,000lbs. The smaller 230cm mowers are lighter, but they're also lighter duty. 
My Kubota M9540 is restricted to a 200CM mower. However the Kubota should be getting sold this week and replaced by the MCormick CX110.
I'm waiting for dealer price on Kuhn, then I'm making my move. 
I kind of thinking Kuhn is going to win out.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Well, the Ferri 2500 won out. I ordered it Friday. Hopefully I get a lot of trouble free service from it..


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Looks good, I'd bet if you run it on the ground your Kubota would be fine, its with it elevated at max offset it might be a bit unstable.

I have the rotor out of mine putting in new bearings at the moment. They are pretty simple machines to repair if something goes wrong.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Looks good, I'd bet if you run it on the ground your Kubota would be fine, its with it elevated at max offset it might be a bit unstable.
> I have the rotor out of mine putting in new bearings at the moment. They are pretty simple machines to repair if something goes wrong.


Since the smaller Kubby is gone, it'll be on the bigger Kubby or the McCormick and both are over 10,000 lbs.
The final decision to buy came from being awarded 2 more very nice mowing contracts. 
I'm beginning to believe I could go into semi-retirement mowing large property.

I really like the tractor in that one picture. Looks very stable.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Antonio carrera, same-hurlman or Ferrari tractor possibly - all terrible to get parts for in North America. There's a few around here doing sidewalks.


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