# JD 2WD M Series Front Lugs



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a JD 5075M, 2WD. Has loader. On three separate occasions the lugs have virtually simultaneously walked out. After the first occasion which caused the tractor to lurch and damage a sliding door on the shop, I set them with blue thread sealer, and a 24" breaker bar with socket. This it getting ridiculous. Never experienced anything like this before. Anyone else experienced this? Tractor only has 700 hrs on it. Any thoughts? Planning to find lug bolts long enough to put a nylon stop nut on the opposite side of the hub.


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## theranch (May 14, 2011)

My neighbor and I both purchased 2012 5075M 2WD tractors. We both have loaders. His is larger and has a grapple. I have a 553 loader and use a spear. He had the same problem you are describing. Wheel bolts would back out and wheel came loose. If you look at the wheel and how it fits on the hub, you will see that it doesn't fit over the center of the hub and the whole wheel is secured entirely by the lug bolts. This fix is to replace the wheels with the correct fitting wheel. JD did this under warranty for both of our tractors. Problem solved.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

*Update*: Got extra long threaded bolts and threaded through wheel then capped with nylon lock nuts. No issues since. Comforting being able to look down and see the nuts still on.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You may have solved the bolts coming loose, but if the wheel is not supported in the center of the wheel at the hub, then you will probably have a wheel fail at some point. You did not eliminate the stress, you just moved it to the next weakest link.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Deere knows better than that! How many years building tractors and the rim ain't supported on the hub?

Every owner should have a notice in the mail to have the rims replaced.

Simple as that!


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

The 5065M with about 800 hours had the same failure last Fall. Son called and said, "I'm about to lose a wheel". Well we thought he probably meant a Tedder wheel, wrong the front wheel on the Deere. Only had one lug bolt left. Found 2 or 3 lying within 20 feet behind the tractor. The chamfer on lug holes were completely wallowed out. Local dealer found a wheel in stock 2 counties away, wanted to know if we wanted shipped in at price plus $75 shipping, said no we drive there a lot cheaper than that and we need it now. Now we're checking the torque every 3 months. We were blaming ourselves for not keeping a better check on the lugs so now we don't feel quite so bad. I'm pretty sure those 2WD axles are marked made in India BTW.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Planning to call Deere today and ask what happened to my claim. seem ready and willing to accept my money whenever, it's a shame you have to stand on your head to get something like this fixed. Unfortunately, made in Atlanta only means assembled in atlanta, they are still made with parts from all over the world.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

We were told the axle was made in India, transmission from China, engine from Mexico and the hydraulics from Brazil. The only thing we've seen that is marked USA is the Cab. Assembled in Georgia is right, they don't make anything there. Friend of mine took the Gold Key tour when he bought his. He said it's just an assembly line no manufacturing.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

*Further Update: *




















OK, so here is the deal. Went back to the dealer after not hearing anything for multiple weeks. Shop Supervisor says oh, yeah, I got an email on that and you get replacement wheels and wheel nuts. I will order them for you but you have to pay for the remounting of the tires. The new rims are milled straight across and have a solid .25" of contact bearing surface all around. they are heavier (thicker) metal and far more substantial. The old ones were the regular stamped wheels with the swagged bearing surface and you have to use the "rounded" side to mount to the hub to get clearance to the axle (and they came that way new from the dealer). The wheel bolts were the swagged type that once they worked loose a little really waller out the bolt holes. The new wheel bolts are flange bolts are longer and with the flange have like 4 times the bearing surface. The design is completely different so the problem must be significant enough to warrant a design change and coverage under warranty. However, the tire change should have been their nickle as well. I certainly did not cause the problem.

This is the third time in the last 6 years that JD has fixed something significant under warranty without calling it a recall. Perhaps someone on hay talk knows why the reluctance. It was clearly defective. I had called originally to ask if their was a recall on the wheels after my third episode of bolts walking out and told there was no such recall. The other two were the front axle replacement on my 6115M 4wd and the replacement of the pto guts on a 6115D. The pto totally locked the tractor because (as I understand it) the gear that pops up and out of the way for 1000 rpm when you have it in 540 rpm mode fell down and they rotate in different directions causing the lock up. There was total silence on what happened but the mechanic that fixed it told me later that the replacement parts were a totally new design.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate Deere making the situation right but am not sure why you have to be a pest to have an obvious problem addressed. perhaps it only happens to people with loaders on their tractors who actually use them.

Hopefully, this has fixed the problem. the new rims certainly fit more snugly that the old ones and I like the use of flange bolts for this application. Thanks to Mike 10 for pointing out that my temp fix was not a real fix and the others that mentioned that they had experienced the same issue. I used this information when I went back to the dealer requesting a review of this matter. My suggestion to Haytalkers is that if you have a 2wd M with conventional wheels and bolts, I would visit your dealer and get the fix. Even if you have not experienced the bolts walking out you probably will at some point and after once, it happens quicker each time.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Very common among the business folks to TSB issues until sued. They pay less and their bottom line looks better. I went through that with Toyota, they had a bad batch of bearings for 2 years in a transmission. Every single one failed between 60 and 120 thousand miles. Every one inside warrantee covered, everyone a mile over they claimed they had never heard of the issue. Went to local transmission shop, they had rebuilt several that month for the dealer including one the day before for a customer whose transmission locked up on the highway. Back to Toyota, service underwriter wouldn't look me in the face during the discussion.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

A manufacturer usually isn't going to offer to pay for jack.

We have the Hiniker air seeder for planting beans, uses a trailed cart behind the three point tool bar to carry the seed. Broke several spindles right off on the left hand side which is the drive side for the metering wheels. Bought two from Hiniker then after breaking the second one a landlord that owned a machine shop made a third one for us out of better steel, that one lasted longer but eventually failed. Turned out it was a known issue as they had an updated assembly that bolted on that used a larger diameter spindle. Was like pulling teeth, finally got em to sell it to us at cost when I asked who was going to be sued if that wheel snapped off going down the road and ended up going thru the windshield of a oncoming car since they knew it was an issue and redesigned that particular piece.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Yup can you imagine if a building collapsed and the engineer admits yeah we knew there was a problem but this one hadn't collapsed yet so we didn't bother telling them...


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Unless it is a safety issue, most mfg will only issue a fix as fail PIP. Their reason is not all owners will experience the failure so why would they pay for repairing a unit that may not fail. Right or wrong that is the mfg,s reasoning.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mike10 said:


> Unless it is a safety issue, most mfg will only issue a fix as fail PIP. Their reason is not all owners will experience the failure so why would they pay for repairing a unit that may not fail. Right or wrong that is the mfg,s reasoning.


And its definitely wrong in our case, they spent the time to engineer and build a heavier duty replacement for the original assembly, that as far as I'm concerned is an admission of guilt.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If they made the equipment perfect, there would be no need to change model numbers every few years. What would then drive sales if there was no need for having the latest and greatest. Lol


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Business requires trust. Trust is developed by adhering to commitments in quality, standing behind your product and going the extra mile when you've made a mistake!

If you hold off - wait and see - maybe it won't be a big deal... Just a few customers will be affected. We'll save money... Most people will have no idea...

You're no longer trustworthy. The public will find out. And there will be repercussions.

The engineering fix to this issue appears to be great. Deere's business approach to this issue appears to be untrustworthy.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

mike10 said:


> Unless it is a safety issue, most mfg will only issue a fix as fail PIP. Their reason is not all owners will experience the failure so why would they pay for repairing a unit that may not fail. Right or wrong that is the mfg,s reasoning.


Mike, while I get what you are saying, it really doesn't wash with me on this point. I incurred substantial damage to my shop door due to this defect which insurance would not cover (wheel coming loose and shifting tractor is not a listed item on Farm Bureau-another bunch of crooks but don't get me started on that. I lost valuable hay making time because it came loose twice while I was raking one day. Luckily, my nephew was here helping me and we got it back on line quickly. Had it collapsed in the field it would have been a major bummer. Then there is the possibility of it having failure going down the road with an oncoming vehicle-that would have been swell and a safety cluster waiting to happen. I totally agree with 2ndWind, the approach was untrustworthy. At the very least they should have notified their shop managers so that when I called the first time the immediate answer would have been- "there have been a few failures reported, we will replace your wheels immediately and pay to have your tires remounted". It's just good business.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I don't like it either and I have voiced my opinion but I am not the one writing the check, so I guess we will have to live with it for the time being. Perhaps when the farm economy turns around the mfg's will re-evaluate their policy.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

There once was a company called International Harvester they built the 560 tractor that had an inferior final drive out of an old Farmall M some say it was the beginning of the end of IH . It took two years and 12 million dollars to fix the problem . John Deere's ignorance today could be the beginning of the end who knows. I grew up on a IH 560 and JD 4020 I still own both the JD was the go to tractor. I've been trying to sell the 560 for three years now nobody wants to give me more then $500 for it. If it was a John Deere it would be an easy sell but not for the IH.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

2ndWindfarm said:


> The engineering fix to this issue appears to be great. Deere's business approach to this issue appears to be untrustworthy.


What tractor manufacturer would you deem trustworthy by your criteria? All manufacturers point to the bottom line....most are stockholder driven. We live in a manufacturing world today that does not care about individuals like you or me. Money is the beginning and the end....the Alpha and the Omega.

Regards, Mike


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Vol said:


> What tractor manufacturer would you deem trustworthy by your criteria? All manufacturers point to the bottom line....most are stockholder driven. We live in a manufacturing world today that does not care about individuals like you or me. Money is the beginning and the end....the Alpha and the Omega.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Let's not get sidetracked from the issue and unecessarily cast glances at other manufacturers.

My measurement scale for trustworthiness is not likely to vary greatly from yours, Mike.

... Did JD address the problem quickly? Did JD communicate with owner's regarding their understanding of the problem and how they were going to resolve it? Did JD admit that the problem
was their fault and that they would be accountable for all repairs?

Yes, when a company tackles this kind of problem head-on it can affect the bottom line. However, this particular issue is not a large, dominant expense that might jeopardize the company significantly, IMO.

You'd like to believe that company reps would have jumped all over this right out of the gate! It would be a reasonably low cost - good PR opportunity.

On the face of it, it looks like Deere decided to sit back and see if folk's would deal with the problem on their own.

That said, I'm not "privy" to all the details between JD and the owner's of the affected machines.

Nonetheless, I don't think that JD can jump up and give consumer's a "high-five" over their handling of the problem.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

2ndWindfarm said:


> Let's not get sidetracked from the issue and unecessarily cast glances at other manufacturers.
> 
> My measurement scale for trustworthiness is not likely to vary greatly from yours, Mike.


That was a fair question....no one is getting sidetracked here.....unless it would be you and your attempt to demonize one manufacturer over the rest. Any of the large ag manufacturers make blunders and attempt to downplay them and minimize their rectifying costs. I don't like it, but they are all the same.

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I think the dealers may share some of this blame as well.....if they had sold a few of these tractors and seen the problem. There is nothing to prevent the service manager from looking back at previous sales and calling them to get the tractors in for inspection.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I had this all written this am but had a senior moment and whoosh it was gone.

So, to arrest this from going down the rabbit hole any further, I have no desire to demonize JD in particular, it is just the way big business looks at people, employees, customers etc-all replaceable and they don't need any of us. My experiences are greater with JD as I like their tractors and have had a bunch to get where I am now. Also bought two others for the solid waste facility I managed. I have had issues with New Holland but not as many as my only issue was with a baler and rake bought new. Baler knotters did not work (bad part) and the rake was not assembled properly and collapsed. Those issues were addressed with multiple hours of company investment. I am also on the second year of a wait list for replacement-recall passenger side air bag inflator on my 2007 dodge 4 x 4 pu. I mean really, 2 years and "you probably should park your truck". Give me a freakin break. And I am not brimming with confidence that the drivers side inflator was not replaced with the second recalled part. instead of worrying about a stupid wall that won't work, congress should make the auto makers fix their defective vehicles that hard working people paid good money for.

Which brings me to the point: JDs aren't cheap. those of us who believe they are a good product and worth the money (i know, silly us) should at least receive the courtesy of a meaningful customer service oriented response when we encounter a problem with the product, not obfuscation. There is a saying in personnel management: all actions should be swift and immediate.

Now contrast what i reported with Chrysler and JD with Redwing boots. When you spend the money for RedWing boots you expect a quality boot that stands up to whatever you reasonably dish out. I had a pair of steel shank tennis shoes by RW that were old but not used hardly at all that imploded. I contacted RW and explained the issue and they expressed their disappointment that they did not work out for me and asked me to send pics of the failure for them to evaluate whether they would replace. Whether they ultimately replace them or not, i feel I was handled with respect.

Just one man's opinion and worth what you paid for it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I spoke with my service manager this morning about this issue.....his response was pure corporate "well, if you look in the owners manual, it says to check the tightness in the lugs for the first ....yada yada". "I said "you know damn well folks ain't gonna check their lugs every 25 hours for the first 100 hours....and the kit to "fix" includes a much better attachment system". He says "I know, we've replaced all we sold, but we still see a few..." So that tells me someone in service recognized a problem and got those tractors back in, recalls be damned....
Sometimes it leads back to the dealer, which is why it's very important to have a good dealer....unfortunately not all of them are on top of their game at all times. And ditto for us operators, I'm not sure I would remember to check my lugs for the first "some odd" hours....I probably wouldn't read it in the book, and once again that kinda goes back to the dealer....


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I saw this today and it made me think of Ricks pita ordeal. 

Here is a list chosen by some outfit named Ethisphere.....and they list the most "ethical" businesses in the world....there are 124 of them listed.

Scroll down and you will see the green beelzebub listed in the 25th slot alphabetically.

I noticed that there are several companies listed that at one time or another I have had a dealing with over some kind of difficulty.....hmmmmm. Maybe this means that no one is perfect including myself.

Regards, Mike

http://worldsmostethicalcompanies.ethisphere.com/honorees/


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just for the record Dawg, I had no issues for over a year but at the end, twice in one day. I suspect that if you had a loader that you actually used you had a bigger problem.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Vol said:


> That was a fair question....no one is getting sidetracked here.....unless it would be you and your attempt to demonize one manufacturer over the rest. Any of the large ag manufacturers make blunders and attempt to downplay them and minimize their rectifying costs. I don't like it, but they are all the same.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I'm in no way trying to " demonize" i.e. to make evil or diabolical; John Deere. Far from it - I'm just pointing out - in this particular instance... behavior that appears to be, well... to use a legal term - chickenshit!

Now, maybe I didn't give the dealership enough "credit" for their lack of character in dealing with the problem. But, as I said - I'm not privy to all of the details, either.

And the rim design and application for 2WD, 5000 series Deere tractor's doesn't have alot to do with AGCO, New Holland, Kubota or any other manufacturer. So, chasing off into the woods after the question of other companies conduct is well... Not germaine or directly relevant.

Nonetheless, I have a very high regard for John Deere and their response to customer's complaints. They have treated me very well in the past and I plan to continue buying and using their equipment.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

2ndWindfarm said:


> And the rim design and application for 2WD, 5000 series Deere tractor's doesn't have alot to do with AGCO, New Holland, Kubota or any other manufacturer.


Yep, it is relevant. Both Agco and New Holland that you named have done the very same thing that Deere attempted with Hayman. Both have sold new equipment to hay talk members and tried to shrug their responsibilities with defects and either remedied the problems after much threats and pursuit or just flat out screwed the hay talk owners. Relevant...yes. Trustworthy??....none are. None.

Regards, Mike


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Let's not forget there are always two sides in a dispute. We hear the one side on this forum and you cannot help but feel sympathetic with the poster. None of these companies are perfect, not by a long shot, but I think they do try. Sometimes there is just not a quick solutionr or a mutually agreeable solution.

As for the wheel problem, if I had to guess I would say the dealer is the one who dropped the ball, not JD. These companies watch closely the reports they are receiving from the dealers and also what is happening on the warranty front. There probably is a certain level a problem must reach before a general PIP is issued otherwise it is done on a case by case basis.

Beleive me, I have been frustrated many times over the years wondering why something happened that in my estimation should have been caught before the unit left the factory. We do not live in a perfect world but sometimes you just have to pull your hair out when something you think is stupid is done.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

When I worked for Wain-Roy years ago warranty issues were a major part of my job. So I can say on my behalf, the dealer is 95% at fault as he is the first one to encounter possible issues during PDI and then he is the first one you see when you find a problem. 
They have the best chance of rectifying any issues first hand as well. 
Poor dealers do not recieve the same treatment as good ones do!
CSI is almost as important as sales numbers to the big guys as this prompts future sales.
JD may not have had enough issues with these wheels to issue a recall, or the dealers were all to embarrased about missing it at PDI to tell them...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

skyrydr2 said:


> When I worked for Wain-Roy years ago warranty issues were a major part of my job. So I can say on my behalf, the dealer is 95% at fault as he is the first one to encounter possible issues during PDI and then he is the first one you see when you find a problem.
> They have the best chance of rectifying any issues first hand as well.
> Poor dealers do not recieve the same treatment as good ones do!
> CSI is almost as important as sales numbers to the big guys as this prompts future sales.
> JD may not have had enough issues with these wheels to issue a recall, or the dealers were all to embarrased about missing it at PDI to tell them...


How many dealers even DO a predelivery inspection anymore?? Beyond just "glancing it over" to see that all the parts are there and not going to fall off on the road on the trip out to the farm to deliver it?? How many still "walk you through" hitching up, setting up the machine, and running it the first time to show you the proper adjustments and maintenance points?? Not many that I've seen...

I was cutting hay for a fellow school bus driver's husband a few years back. He ran a custom operation and needed an extra hand to run a 5610S New Holland with a 9 foot Kuhn mower on the back. He'd bought the tractor and mower new from a local dealer a few years earlier. He asked them to set the wheels in to minimum spacing so it would fit up on his gooseneck pipe-rail trailer to haul between distant jobs and the house rather than having to road it everywhere. Whatever "dumb kid" they had set the front axles in, didn't set the front tie rods in to the next set of holes, so the thing was SO "pigeon-toed" when it was delivered that the tractor had practically worn all the rubber off the front tires-- they were nearly slick. First day driving the tractor between a couple "local jobs" it nearly threw me in the ditch when I hit a hole in the road and one tire bounced and the other "grabbed" and tossed the tractor sideways. Next morning I got there a little early with my wrenches and reset the front tie rods to the proper holes.

The guy told me, "you can probably run at 6mph in light stuff, but in any thicker hay, you'll have to drop to 5mph to get through it... the mower will bog down if you don't." Now that really surprised me, as I have yet to see anything in these parts that can "bog down" a disk mower with good sharp blades at a measly 5mph... I got to checking and sure enough, the belt tensioning spring was NOWHERE NEAR being tight enough... I tightened the nut down so that the spring end washer was flush with the indicator tube surrounding the spring, so that the belts were properly tensioned, and it cut like it was supposed to... never did bog it down again.

Simple stuff that SHOULD have been caught in a PDI and corrected before it EVER left the dealer shop, but WASN'T, and stuff that SHOULD have been explained to the buyer upon delivery the first time they used it, but WASN'T...

Later! OL J R


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

My Deere dealer told me to always check them before use. I used a paint marker to mark a straight line from one side of the nut down to the wheel for quick visual reference.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> How many dealers even DO a predelivery inspection anymore?? . He ran a custom operation and needed an extra hand to run a 5610S New Holland with a 9 foot Kuhn mower on the back. He'd bought the tractor and mower new from a local dealer a few years earlier.
> 
> Simple stuff that SHOULD have been caught in a PDI and corrected before it EVER left the dealer shop, but WASN'T, and stuff that SHOULD have been explained to the buyer upon delivery the first time they used it, but WASN'T...
> 
> Later! OL J R


I think poor PDI isn't to blame for loose drive belts on disc mower that's a few yrs old. Incorrect toe-in on frt tires is caused by poor PDI.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I think poor PDI isn't to blame for loose drive belts on disc mower that's a few yrs old. Incorrect toe-in on frt tires is caused by poor PDI.


This wasn't from stretch... this was like the spring was only tightened up about halfway at most... it was sticking up at least 2-3 inches above the "tighten to this level" indicator tube...

Don't know if it was shipped that way or just an idgit assembly mechanic... I've seen both sorts of things...

Grandpa and Dad had an old #18 Deere cotton/corn plate planter that you had to watch like a hawk because when you lowered the 3 point at the end of the field, sometimes the unit drive chains would hit the 3 point arms and it'd throw the chain... so you always lowered the planter, opened the throttle, and then immediately turned around and checked all the row unit drive chains... I FINALLY figured it out one day looking at the book on it-- some idgit assembled the thing with the two center row units "reversed" so that the chain sprocket side was running right beside the 3 point hitch, which was wrong... I reversed the two center row units and presto-- no more problems...

Later! OL J R


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