# Bale Baron



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

Does anyone on here have one? I have a pickup version on the way and had a few questions....


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Congratulations on the purchase!
We have run a tow behind Baron for the last 3 seasons and an Arcusin 14 bale bundler with a pickup for 4 years before that.
I'll ask the first question. What made you decide to go the pickup route?
Mike


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

Thank ya sir im excited bout gettin it!!
I decided to get the pickup version for a couple of reasons, I think I could bale way faster with just baler, I have alot of small fields with tight turns, I am eventually gonna get another baler so we can go in there and knock out a field, and move on to the next, in the mean time go in with another tractor and be pickin em up. No getting out to fix broken bale on turntable, just go around it in the field. 
What happens if the bale is longer than 35" going in the chamber?
Do you have the hydraulics hooked up "direct return" or just thru SCV's?

Have you been pleased with it, or anything to watch for?


----------



## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

I hate to switch subjects but did you look at the band it and what was your reason for going away from it


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

Yes I have looked alot at the bale bandit, I have never seen a pickup version of the bandit, and I never liked the thought of metal banding. I am very familiar with hesston knotters. Ive heard horror stories throughout the years on what a PITA the bale bandit is to keep working with all the optical motion eyes. I do like the fact that the bandit will bale a bigger bale, but it seems that the market has gone to a little shorter bale around here. Have you had good luck with your bandit?


----------



## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

bale band it is just comiing out with the pickup attachment. this was our first year with oiurs. we bought a used one and it was a little differant getting use to lots of extra stuff to watch. we had pretty good luck with it when i did have a problem i could call bale band it and they could talk me out of my problem. we just took ours to the factory to get updates put on it and a new computer board. they say it will be like a new one when we get it back. our customers liked the fact they can load and unload little sq bales with a tractor. we are hoping to put it to a test next year.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I get the idea of a pickup when using multiple balers, or in arid areas where the baling window on alfalfa is so small. I think it makes sense on steep fields if your tractor is on the small side. I am not so sure about giving up the efficiency of a one pass deal because of small, odd fields.

I found manipulating a pull type stack wagon to pick up bales in contour, triangular shaped or steep fields much more challenging than pulling a baler and bandit on the same challenging acres. The curves to the right were the worst and could not be avoided sometimes.

One bandit owner who ran a pickup told me he liked to use a smaller tractor so he had a better view over the rear tire as the bale as it went into the pickup.

There was a company out of Colorado that made a bandit pickup, Hitch Co? And I've seen 2 homemade ones. It seemed to me that the shorter the pickup the less effect from turning.

Kelly


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

When I ordered the unit there was a "receiving platform" available for purchase so you could pull it behind baler for a measly 1800!!! I plan on building this for a couple hundred!! I wanted the option to be able to bale either way. I think it will be more efficient to be able to stick anyone in the small baler tractor and I be running the baron or hauling bundles to the barn. Not just anyone could run the whole rig. If im wrong I hav the option to hook em together....


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Our hydraulics are hooked straight into the pump to reduce the flow restrictions. The injector will break bales that are much longer than 35" as it pushes them up into the chamber. 
For you the biggest thing to watch for is that your baler driver does not try to push his speed too much and leave you with a field of bales that are too long. With the tow behind you obviously find out straight away.
We have been very pleased with ours. I can honestly say we have had no major issues in the first 3 seasons of use and customers love the bundles. Being situated close to the manufacturer also helps but once you get used to them the machines are really pretty basic beyond the computer.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I googled bale beast and this is what I came up with:

YouTube - Farmer jumps into hay bale - machine! xD ^^

I agree; this is a helluva bale beast! And I've felt like doing this many times myself!

BTW: Where can I find info on the machine?

Ralph


----------



## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Ok, tell us more about the "beast."

Rodney


----------



## baddog201 (Sep 18, 2010)

I have some questions where would you get a quote for a bale baron or bale bandit which one is better i have been running accumlators and been thinkin bout switchin


----------



## Feed Hay (May 30, 2008)

Seen good things on here about the Bale Baron. I am curious about the price, it may be the way to go for a one man operation. If you get a ball park price please let me know. I see used Bale Bandits in the 35-50K range on tractorhouse. Figure new in the 60K range???


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

not a beast but a monster:



That would have been so cool 20 years ago when my friends and I were young and stupid!

New model 100 bale bandit $57,000
200 bale bandit $62,000

bale baron $71,000


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

SVFHAY said:


> not a beast but a monster:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That seems like quite a large price difference but IMO it would take more than that to make me decide for metal banding over twine.

I don't think that 'monster' is the machine you were talking about is it Shaun??


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

SVFHAY said:


> bale baron $71,000


I was quoted $75,000 for pickup model with hillside turntable. I figured I need to do between 30 and 40,000 bales/year to break even. I use a rough number of $.25 every time I handle a bale: picking up in field, moving into barn, moving out of barn, unloading at customers (Not including travel) = $1

Ralph


----------



## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Ok, now I have pie on my face. I thought the beast was an actual machine, not that made up thing on you tube. A guy not that far away from here unintentionally got into a big baler, and several folks pulled the pieces of him back out. I don't even think that video should be on there.

Rodney


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

I went and looked at the baron today, It has some very big hyd lines and fittings. Where do these hook up and where do you get these couplers?


----------



## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

if there like our bale band it our lines are reduced down to a standard pioneer end and our return line dumps directly back into the hyd tank.


----------



## Haymike56 (May 3, 2010)

Deere has a port on the side of the SCV that allows the hydraulic return line to not have any restriction. Check with your dealer and they can get the fittings needed.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Haymike56 said:


> Deere has a port on the side of the SCV that allows the hydraulic return line to not have any restriction. Check with your dealer and they can get the fittings needed.


Whites/Oliver's have almost the same thing, remove a pipe plug from the reservoir and screw in the pipe fitting and the quick connect. Our 8160 MF has a similar port, but you need a metric ORB fitting if I recall correctly.

Something we change on all our equipment that has a dedicated return line, if it's not already set up with the quick couplers reversed on the return line, go ahead and change em. Put the male fitting on the tractor and the female on the hose, this way the return line can never accidentally be pressurized. Doesn't happen often, but we have a cousin that had the lines reversed and blew the oil cooler apart on a air planter, if he had the fittings reversed never would have happened.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Something I've been wondering about, when we used to make small squares we could get away with baling em a little tough as they'd breath out if we stacked em only a few layers thick in a different mow. With a Bale Baron or Bandit, once they are compressed and bundled, I take it they'd have to no wetter than 18% or do they need to be even dryer as in the range for big squares?

I'm guessing as well that they'd need picked up asap just like large squares? We average around 40" inches of rain a year and almost all the guys around here that consistently make quality large squares all say that they have to be picked up as fast as they are made. If left over night a lot of the time the side of the bale in contact with the ground will pick up enough moisture to mold even with acid, are the bundled small bales as bad for this as large squares?


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Ya, I remember the days of baling high moisture bales loose and stacking them separate with a liberal dose of salt. We could make some nice carmalized feed that way.

Those days left when the stackliner got here. Had to have a solid bale to keep them stacks up. The acid applicator came along then too and anything over 18 got shot.

The same with the bundles. You can bale a loose bale and it may cure a little better but loose bales mean you can't stack bundles nicely. If I can't do it the customer can't either and no one is happy.

With 50 lb. bales the weight per cubic foot is about the same a 4x5 round, a little less dense than a 3x. I can bale horse quality hay into the low 20's with acid consistently.

Your right on about picking them up quickly too if the ground is wet. We want every bale to be horse quality so very few spend a night out. I've had guys tell me they bale 3x's so tight that rain doesn't soak in. Righhhht. It will soak into a bundle and a 1/4" inch will make mulch out of it quick.


----------



## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Something I've been wondering about, when we used to make small squares we could get away with baling em a little tough as they'd breath out if we stacked em only a few layers thick in a different mow. With a Bale Baron or Bandit, once they are compressed and bundled, I take it they'd have to no wetter than 18% or do they need to be even dryer as in the range for big squares?
> 
> I'm guessing as well that they'd need picked up asap just like large squares? We average around 40" inches of rain a year and almost all the guys around here that consistently make quality large squares all say that they have to be picked up as fast as they are made. If left over night a lot of the time the side of the bale in contact with the ground will pick up enough moisture to mold even with acid, are the bundled small bales as bad for this as large squares?


I have the moisture tester mounted opposite the cut side on my bale chamber, and I now have a rule of thumb to go by. For orch. or timothy, 8-12 %, no problem (these are in bundles) at all. Don't even waste time checking the next day. 13-14.5 %, there's going to be a little heat the next day for sure, usually not bad heat, but enough to cause a problem. These bundles just don't breath. 15% - 18%, It better have had acid, or there is major dust in the middle bales when coming out. I've already punched out the middle bales in bundles after ward to allow the others in the bundle to breathe. When most guys start raking, I rip through the field one last time with the tedder to try and keep the moisture level 1-2% lower for this particular reason. This is what i've learned so far.


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

[When most guys start raking, I rip through the field one last time with the tedder to try and keep the moisture level 1-2% lower for this particular reason. This is what i've learned so far.[/QUOTE]

We do the exact same thing with first cutting. Then rake almost right in front of the baler. 
The added benefit being I don't have to worry about the underneath of the windrow not being moved with the center delivery rake as it is already dry.
Granted we lose a bit more leaf this way but its worth it for the the piece of mind knowing your product will be stable in the bundle.

Every bundle gets picked up off the ground at night, even if they are starting to get dew on top. I would rather they sat over night on dry trailor beds under a roof than on potentially damp ground. The first night we risked leaving anything out we would be sure to get a shower pop up from somewhere!


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

Finally got it. I made an adaptor for the lines to plug in the scv's. It worked great, I couldnt belive how fast it works even with small valves. I rebaled some alfalfa that was heavy, avg 75-80 it handled it great the bundles were very tight.
















Heres the first bundle ran thru it some late season grass


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

You will never want to handle another small bale again!! Congratulations and good luck.


----------



## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

Have any of you guys tried getting Marcrest to lease you a Baron for the summer to try on your farm with the option to buy it if it works out? Dad is having a hard time spending 70,000 on a machine he has never seen run or will not have a local dealer for. We would sure like to have one but its a lot of money to spend on a piece of equipment that hasnt been out very long.


----------



## OkhayBallr (Dec 18, 2009)

............................


----------



## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

6125 said:


> I have the moisture tester mounted opposite the cut side on my bale chamber, and I now have a rule of thumb to go by. For orch. or timothy, 8-12 %, no problem (these are in bundles) at all. Don't even waste time checking the next day. 13-14.5 %, there's going to be a little heat the next day for sure, usually not bad heat, but enough to cause a problem. These bundles just don't breath. 15% - 18%, It better have had acid, or there is major dust in the middle bales when coming out. I've already punched out the middle bales in bundles after ward to allow the others in the bundle to breathe. When most guys start raking, I rip through the field one last time with the tedder to try and keep the moisture level 1-2% lower for this particular reason. This is what i've learned so far.


So exactly what do you mean by punching out the middle bales? Does this mean you take the bundles apart back at the barn to keep the bundles from heating up?


----------



## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

NDVA HAYMAN said:


> So exactly what do you mean by punching out the middle bales? Does this mean you take the bundles apart back at the barn to keep the bundles from heating up?


No, I mean putting the forks together on the skid loader and pushing the middle bale clean through and out the other side of the bundle. Granted, it's only a band-aid on a gunshot wound, but it does allow the remaining bales around the empty space to breath. Till next year, I'm going to try bolting a bale spike on the face of the plunger (about 4" long) so every slice gets a hole punched into the middle, and hopefully the whole bale will have a hole in it from one end to the other, allowing heat to escape. I'll try anything before I spend money on a dryer for hay.


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

We tried the hole punching trick years back with poor results. I think this was on a 337 Deere with a thrower, no preservative applicator and no moisture meter so I have no idea how it well it worked with varying moisture.

We had the local welding shop turn down a solid 2x2" square bar about 8" long that bolted onto the plunger. The theory on using a square spear was that it would crimp the corners of the hole so it would not collapse shut. Welding guy said he would never again try to turn down a square bar on a lathe!

Well, the hole was never clear enough that you could see through and most times you could not shove a probe through. Might have worked if you baled really slow. The area around the hole seemed to be more dense and the bales didn't form quite right. As stated this was far from a lab controlled experiment but it didn't seem to work for us.

I have heard others having better luck with this on 3&4x balers. good luck.


----------



## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

SVFHAY said:


> We tried the hole punching trick years back with poor results. I think this was on a 337 Deere with a thrower, no preservative applicator and no moisture meter so I have no idea how it well it worked with varying moisture.
> 
> We had the local welding shop turn down a solid 2x2" square bar about 8" long that bolted onto the plunger. The theory on using a square spear was that it would crimp the corners of the hole so it would not collapse shut. Welding guy said he would never again try to turn down a square bar on a lathe!
> 
> ...


I should have known that you had already probably had tried this trick Kelley. What's your recipe for non-disaster when it comes to bundles heating up. The acid just isn't working out for me like I would have hoped on the grass hay. 15-17 % I can hold it, but I get a lot of carmelizing. Over 17% and forget it, lots of heat and guarenteed mow-burn at the very least. Nothing like bone-dry hay.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

6125 said:


> 15-17 % I can hold it, but I get a lot of carmelizing. Over 17% and forget it, lots of heat and guarenteed mow-burn at the very least. Nothing like bone-dry hay.


How much acid are you using. One time, I baled about 30% moisture with Cropsaver and, as I recall, I applied about 20lbs/ton--really heavy--didn't loose a bale.

I usually have my Harvestec applicator automatic settings set to apply 4 lbs/ton at 16-20, 8 lbs at 20-24 and 16 lbs at 24+ if the moisture varies widely across the field--BUT I will scale this back if the moisture tends to read higher across the field.

However, I agree--nothing like really dry hay!

Ralph


----------



## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Maybe the moisture levels we are comparing are apples and oranges. After being frustrated with the difference between hand held and baler mounted readings, I moved the sensor pad to the cut side of the chamber. This is opposite to the instructions but I think it gives a lot more accurate (higher) indication on mixed hay.

I apply at least 5 lb. acid minimum, more as it approaches 20%, and use 2 spray tips. Never had much luck over 25% regardless of amount used.

Always bale outside rounds against treeline first or last and keep those bundles separate. I don't spread litter or fertilizer against these edges to keep swaths light. I will even bale sections of fields that usually dry slower, like a hillside that slopes away from afternoon sun, separately and tag bundles for different storage.

If there will be a few days until baling again I let wagons/trailers loaded to allow to air off if in question. I will stack wetter bundles on outside edges of storage buildings and put dryer ones toward center.

As mentioned earlier, we wait a little later to rake and follow with the baler a little sooner than we used to in the old days.

In the end it is all about the weather. The last two years I have lost very little to poor curing but it has been nice conditions HERE. Either waaay to wet to attempt harvest or good drying weather, not those cloudy days that you just can't make a good decision.

I didn't mean to discourage you on trying the hole in the middle, I really liked the idea at the time, it just didn't work out the way we did it.

Congratulations to okhayblr, I can't wait to see the self dumping bundle wagon and any other new invents!


----------



## AndyH359 (Jan 3, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Put the male fitting on the tractor and the female on the hose, this way the return line can never accidentally be pressurized.


I always hated hooking up the hoses wrong relative to which way the cylinder ran when you pushed the remote lever. So I use zip strips. One fitting on each tractor has a zip strip, then one zip strip on the appropriate line fitting. zip to zip for one connection then by default is the other connection. Easy to teach to guys hooking up equipment also.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Re spoilage in bundles, it appears to be like large square bales, needs to be a few % points dryer.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

AndyH359 said:


> I always hated hooking up the hoses wrong relative to which way the cylinder ran when you pushed the remote lever. So I use zip strips. One fitting on each tractor has a zip strip, then one zip strip on the appropriate line fitting. zip to zip for one connection then by default is the other connection. Easy to teach to guys hooking up equipment also.


The reversing one fitting is used for hydraulic motors on a zero return. Some of our equipment has oil coolers built in and I can guarantee if 2000 lbs of pressure was put thru them they'd explode. If the return line is backwards from all the rest then it _absolutely cannot be hooked up backwards_ and have pressure flowing thru the oil cooler.

Before the days of zip straps we'd tie strings around the hoses from feed bags.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm curious about these things, but most likely will never get one. I have a question though. How do you load them onto a truck. Around here we use loaders with hay forks going through the bale to stack the large squares. But with these I'm sure you could be pushing out the middle bales if you tried that. So how is the best way to stack these packs? Do you use a hay grapple on the top?


----------



## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

Teslan said:


> I'm curious about these things, but most likely will never get one. I have a question though. How do you load them onto a truck. Around here we use loaders with hay forks going through the bale to stack the large squares. But with these I'm sure you could be pushing out the middle bales if you tried that. So how is the best way to stack these packs? Do you use a hay grapple on the top?


Bale spikes will work well if: For "upright" position of bundle [coming out of the machine], spikes go under to lift. If stabbing the bundle, knock it on it's side, then either through the cut side or opposite cut side, having spikes centered in bales not to catch the strings.


----------



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

In the field we use three prong spears and go between middle and bottom layers. Once you get the hang of it this can be done without stopping and has the added benefit of not picking up soil which sometimes happens when going right underneath.
In the barn we use one of the Marcrest grapples on a telehandler which is also what we use for loading trucks. Up a loading dock for vans and over the side for trailers


----------



## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I looked pretty hard at a bale baron at the farm show this weekend. Sounds like they are going to have a demo day in june about 15 miles from me possibly. I like the concept but the price tag is crazy. I havent done the math but I dont think I can come close to justifying that kind of money at 12k-15k bales. I'm thinking 30k-40k you might start coming close. The other thing, there isnt any dealer support around here. So if it breaks, they would have to come 200 +/- miles to fix it. Sounds VERY expensive. But I will go to the demo day to take a look at it. I'm just not sure the math works out.


----------



## thehayladyC (Jul 2, 2010)

Anyone have problems with windrows being too close together when baling with a conventional baler in a very heavy crop and not wanting to drive on the windrow or drop the bundle on a windrow ?


----------



## shaunbaker (Feb 28, 2009)

If your windrows are too close together don't put them there. Lay out wider spaced windrows. If there's too much hay on the ground for that to be done maybe you should be round baling it or putting it up in large squares so you can sell it cheaper. No sense in putting all that time and money into small squares if the hay isn't dairy/horse quality.


----------

