# John Deere 458 Baler Problems



## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

JD 458 Baler problems, hay stacks up on front of baler and goes up to top roller. Anyone have this problem or know how to solve it. Thanks


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Slow rpm's to about 450-460 pto speed. I added extra 14'' rods on each end in between existing rods on metal starter roll. Extra rods were straight when welded to starter roll but foreign object bent some of them. I also added weld dots on the backside of rotor fingers on mega-wide pickup rotors. I very rarely have hay run up frt of bels enough to require needing to remove loose hay when baling Coastal Bermuda even if it gets a little too dry on the moisture % content.


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks for reply, I'm ready to try just about anything.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Another thing you can do is weld a bead on the leading edge of rods that came on starter roll. The weld bead gives the starter roll more grip on the hay when starting core of bale. One has to be careful to remove any weld splatters if baler uses surface wrap to avoid net getting caught on starter roll. I have been supervising welding on starter rolls on JD rd balers since the late 1980's.


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

What kind of rods did you use? 6018? What heat setting?


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

I have the same problem. Mainly in stemmy grass. I was debating about the kits from JD to alleviate the problem. But now I will try Tx Jim's suggestions.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mak122061 said:


> What kind of rods did you use? 6018? What heat setting?


I'm not a welder so I hire a welder to do the task. I've had roller welded by both stick & wire welders. I've had the starter rolls welded on many rd balers. 1st JD rd baler I had with rod contour rods was a 435 with an experimental roller with the contour rods and I asked JD reps from Ottumwa about welding on the rods. The JD factory rep stated they had never welded on the rods so they replaced experimental roller with a new experimental roller. After their experiment ended I then welded on the experimental roller to aid in starting a bale in Coastal plus limit hay from running up frt of belts.


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Jim,

What size is the rod you added to the ends of the starter roller? May have to try it on my 569. Tifton 85 really wads up on the front of mine.

Scott


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Scott

I just acquired some rods that appeared to be close to the same diameter as the original rods BUT I didn't measure them.My reasoning for only adding the rods on each extremity of bale chamber was that's where the problem of hay running up belts exists. As I previously stated I rarely ever have to clean out any hay lodged in belts. Disclaimer: Normally hay production in tons per acre in N central TX won't compare to other areas of the USA


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

That is my issue as well Jim. Some time back in my career of baling is was told, and did, trim the belts at a 45 degree from the lacing and the lacing pin. this was supposed to stop caring hay up the front. The last two balers, 568&569, this has not helped. I like your plan Jim, and will try to fab that in the shop this weekend.

Thanks

Scott


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks to TX Jim. Baled 124 bales yesterday and only cleaned baler off twice. Picture is after about 50 bales. I contacted my local JD dealer to try and purchase the rods. He could have them here in about 4 days. I had hay on the ground so I asked him the specs for the rods. He did tell me the rods were the about the size of a 5/8 cold rolled steel rod. I went to my local steel supplier and purchased 8 14 inch 5/8 rods. These 5/8 rods are a little bigger than the rods on the baler. I used a 7018 welding rod with the lincoln welder set on 130. I am not the best welder but so far after 124 bales they are still secure. I did not worry with splatter since I am tying with twine only. I tried to keep PTO to 480, but on some of the hills it was difficult to do. All thing considered, this made my baling a lot easier. Thanks again to TX Jim!!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mak12261

You're very welcome. Nothing more aggravating than having to stop & get off tractor to clean out the bridged hay unless it's to clean out a PLUG!!. In yrs past I witnessed the hay start smoking from friction. You should consider adding the weld dots to the rear of the rotors on the mega-wide pickup as I think the dots help start the core to rolling.

Jim


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

I did add three dots to each, forgot to mention. Thanks again


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## Bigfoot62 (Jul 26, 2017)

mak122061 said:


> JD 458 Baler problems, hay stacks up on front of baler and goes up to top roller. Anyone have this problem or know how to solve it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mak,

Had the same problem on my 457.

I built up the rollers as Jim suggested. It helped, but didn't cure mine. As Jim also told you, slow the rpm's. Again, that helps a little, but still didn't fix mine.

I talked to several JD baler mechanics, and it was suggested that I add the additional rods to the compressor. (there's 8 holes, but JD only installed 4 rods) So, I ordered the rods from JD at about $60 each. Didn't help. Also, I was told to replace my belts. Said that the tears and holes in the old belts were grabbing hay and that was causing the problem. No good either. Recently, some of the same mechanics wanted to rebuild the pickup and add a silage kit. I balked. There was NO WAY that I was putting a silage kit on a dry hay baler! I was done throwing money at a problem. I loaded it on the trailer and carried it to an auction. Sold it and bought a new Vermeer 504R. Baled a few rolls last week in my cousin's pasture. Problem solved! 

After using my new 504R, and looking at the 459's, I think that the compressor roller (in front of the pickup) is probably one of the best solutions for this problem.

I hope that you are done with the trouble.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

clowers said:


> That is my issue as well Jim. Some time back in my career of baling is was told, and did, trim the belts at a 45 degree from the lacing and the lacing pin. this was supposed to stop caring hay up the front. The last two balers, 568&569, this has not helped. I like your plan Jim, and will try to fab that in the shop this weekend.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Scott


"Scarfing" the belt (IIRC the term correctly) at about a *60 degree* angle at the lacing helps to ease the belts past belt guides they might rub against as the lacings pass the belt guides without snagging... never heard of it having ANY influence on carrying hay up the front of the baler...

Later! OL J R


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Bigfoot62 said:


> Mak,
> 
> Had the same problem on my 457.
> 
> ...


Good to hear that your still around and pickin' hay outta your shirt pockets, Bigfoot! Does the compressor roller come with the silage kit? Some confusion on my part with terms as well... high moisture kit vs silage kit? Are they the same or different components? Thanks.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

2ndWindfarm said:


> Good to hear that your still around and pickin' hay outta your shirt pockets, Bigfoot! Does the compressor roller come with the silage kit? Some confusion on my part with terms as well... high moisture kit vs silage kit? Are they the same or different components? Thanks.


The compressor roll is part of the mega wide head. The high moisture kit is an add on option that has a scraper and different roller for cleaning off debris from inside the belts on the roll above the pickup head. The silage special balers have an auger for removing debris from inside the belts as well as some other things that help with the buildup of material on rolls and belts


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## Bigfoot62 (Jul 26, 2017)

2ndWindfarm said:


> Good to hear that your still around and pickin' hay outta your shirt pockets, Bigfoot! Does the compressor roller come with the silage kit? Some confusion on my part with terms as well... high moisture kit vs silage kit? Are they the same or different components? Thanks.


I think *IH 1586 *answered most of your question.

From what I understand, the "silage kit" for a dry hay baler is the scraper and the new belt roller, not the compressor roller.


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

JD wanted me to put an silage kit on my baler for a cost of about $3000. I chose not to do this and the suggestions that TX Jim made really helped. Friday I went ant looked a a Vermeer 504R and a Kubota BV4160. Not much difference in the price of these two balers. Got price from same dealer since he handles both. Vermeer $30,000 and Kubota $30,200. What are ya'lls thoughts?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mak122061 said:


> Friday I went ant looked a a Vermeer 504R and a Kubota BV4160. Not much difference in the price of these two balers. Got price from same dealer since he handles both. Vermeer $30,000 and Kubota $30,200. What are ya'lls thoughts?


I have not heard any reports at all on the Kubota(Vicon?), but the 504R Vermeer is getting outstanding reviews. I looked at one myself and they are very well made and designed....and appear to be built to last.

Regards, Mike


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## jd4230ps (Dec 9, 2010)

mak122061 said:


> JD 458 Baler problems, hay stacks up on front of baler and goes up to top roller. Anyone have this problem or know how to solve it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I put 2 more rods on each side of compression rack on my 569, and it stops almost all hay from going up outside belts. You have to cut each outside rod off a few inches so it will clear auger.


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## 2ndWindfarm (Nov 11, 2014)

Now, I understand the many recommendations to buy a JD with the MegaWide pickup.

Guess having the silage special option might be a good move as well!


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## Bigfoot62 (Jul 26, 2017)

mak122061 said:


> JD wanted me to put an silage kit on my baler for a cost of about $3000. I chose not to do this and the suggestions that TX Jim made really helped. Friday I went ant looked a a Vermeer 504R and a Kubota BV4160. Not much difference in the price of these two balers. Got price from same dealer since he handles both. Vermeer $30,000 and Kubota $30,200. What are ya'lls thoughts?


Don't know anything about the Kubota, but shop around for prices on the 504R. I paid $25.5k for mine. Had two more dealers priced it in the low $26's and one at just under $28. I told all four dealers that I would buy where I had the best price.

I can't say a lot about the performance of the new 504R yet, because I haven't been able to use it. I did roll 12 bales in my cousin's hay field, just to make sure that it worked. But, it's the middle of August and we're still getting rain every few days. I think that so far this month, we've only had two days in a row without rain. Can't cut with the weather like that.


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## mak122061 (Jul 4, 2014)

Bigfoot62 said:


> Don't know anything about the Kubota, but shop around for prices on the 504R. I paid $25.5k for mine. Had two more dealers priced it in the low $26's and one at just under $28. I told all four dealers that I would buy where I had the best price.
> 
> I can't say a lot about the performance of the new 504R yet, because I haven't been able to use it. I did roll 12 bales in my cousin's hay field, just to make sure that it worked. But, it's the middle of August and we're still getting rain every few days. I think that so far this month, we've only had two days in a row without rain. Can't cut with the weather like that.


Could you share the dealers - I'll hook up the goose neck and drive to LA for that price. Thanks MAK


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## Bigfoot62 (Jul 26, 2017)

mak122061 said:


> Could you share the dealers - I'll hook up the goose neck and drive to LA for that price. Thanks MAK


I bought at Weeks Tractor at Natchitoches, LA. 318-352-9876 Ask for Billy Weeks.

The next best prices were at Patrick-Miller in Many, LA and Jasper County Tractor in Jasper, TX.

All three dealers are good folks. Been there for years and I've bought from all of them.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Added the additional rods to the roller on my 459 yesterday. My welder placed the rods closer to the ends of the roll than yours Jim. Do you think that they will still be effective? It's done now so I got what I got.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think rods closer to chamber wall will be fine. Please report back if rods helped or didn't help. I baled 126 Coastal bales yesterday that hay was getting a little too dry due to low humidity(mid 30's) and never had hay build up in belts.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks Tx Jim. I'll report back. Maybe a couple of weeks.


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## cutbogger (Sep 14, 2017)

got same problem with my 457 silage special....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

cutbogger

What pto rpm's are you operating your baler? What's the average # of bales per acre? How many bales have belts baled? Are 95% of PU teeth present?


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Tx Jim I can't say thank you enough. I baled 87 coastal, crab grass, Johnson grass mix today. I feel like I have a new baler! No hay climbing the belts. Here is a pic.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

Sorry for the picture being upside down.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Troy Farrmer

You're very welcome. I guess I should have patented my shade tree update because it works in Coastal.I can't determine from photo if you added dots to feeder rotors? I can't remember the last time I cleaned hay out of my balers belts. I have a patent on adding rubber tires to a 3 pt wheel rake but got side tracked and let it expire.

Jim


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

We didn't add the dots. I might try that in the future. I still can't get over how much of a difference those rods made and why Deere didn't listen to you.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Actually I think I have not had a conversation with a JD representative about the added rods or dots on rotor but I've talked to JD factory rep's several times about welding on starter rollers with the rectangular bars & round rods.


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## Orwin (Jul 4, 2020)

mak122061 said:


> JD 458 Baler problems, hay stacks up on front of baler and goes up to top roller. Anyone have this problem or know how to solve it. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We had the same problem bugged us for years. We finally discovered the problem the spiral auger had its chain routed wrong so the auger was spinning in the wrong direction. Once we rerouted the chain we had no more problem.


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