# Horsenettle, milkweed control



## FarmerCline

Well I was out scouting my orchard and fescue fields I cut a few weeks ago and it appears that I have quite a bit of milkweed and horsenettle just coming up. I have heard grazon p and d is good to control horsenettle but what about milkweed? How large do I need to let them grow before I spray? I also have a red root and spiny pigweed problem on part of these fields I know 2,4d will get rid of these but is there any thing that has a residual effect to keep them from germinating for a while? I don't know why but all the fields I have that used to be cow pasture is just full of pigweed but the non pasture land doesn't have any. Thanks, Hayden


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## mlappin

Old wives tale around here has always been if you have horenettle's you need more lime, personally I think it's just that, an old wive's tale as the fields I've seen it in the PH is just fine. Don't have any horsenettle in any hayfields but in the row crops canopy and roundup control it just fine in the beans and Surestart and atrazine keep it suppressed in the corn.


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## Vol

I understand it is best to spray horsenettle when it is blooming. It will take 2-3 seasons to wipe the nettle out as it has extremely long roots. Grazon will get nettle if kept after.....use full strength recommended....it will take care of the pigweed too...the Grazon does have residual to control the pigweed. I think they have about quit making the Grazon P&D but it is still around and if you can find some it would be easier on everything than the new Grazon HL. You will only have to spray the nettle one time per season until gone(2-3 years).

Regards, Mike


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## Bonfire

I sprayed some Nettles a couple of years ago with Forefront. They were in full bloom. It worked well. Forefront is a combination of Aminopyralid and 2 4D. Aminopryalid is a residual. Milkweeds are tough. I sprayed some last summer with a high concentration of Triclopyr and a really good non ionic surfactant. It withered them up and turned them brown. The whole plant. I thought I got em. They're back again this spring.


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## rjmoses

Bonfire said:


> I sprayed some last summer with a high concentration of Triclopyr and a really good non ionic surfactant. It withered them up and turned them brown. The whole plant. I thought I got em. They're back again this spring.


Spraying plants like horse nettle and Johnsongrass with too high a concentration will often cause the plant to die on the top, but the extensive root system will survive. Then they come back with a vengeance because each surviving root segment will try to create a new plant.

It's sometimes better to spray with a lighter to moderate rate that will allow the plant transport the chemical down into the root system. E.g., If the label says 4-8 oz/ac, 4-5 might be more effective than 7-8 oz/ac. This depends, of course, on the plant growth stage, soil type, etc.

Hope this helps.

Ralph

If what you're doing isn't working, do something different.


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## FarmerCline

I looked up the label on forefront and it said I could not sell the hay from grass that had been sprayed in the previous 18 months.


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## Bonfire

rjmoses said:


> Spraying plants like horse nettle and Johnsongrass with too high a concentration will often cause the plant to die on the top, but the extensive root system will survive. Then they come back with a vengeance because each surviving root segment will try to create a new plant.
> 
> It's sometimes better to spray with a lighter to moderate rate that will allow the plant transport the chemical down into the root system. E.g., If the label says 4-8 oz/ac, 4-5 might be more effective than 7-8 oz/ac. This depends, of course, on the plant growth stage, soil type, etc.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Ralph
> 
> If what you're doing isn't working, do something different.


Well, my target was volunteer Sweet Gum trees about two foot tall in a three year old cleared cow pasture. The Triclopyr did a really good job on those. I had about 20 gallons left so I caught some Milkweed and others on the way back to the house.

I guess I can see where you are coming from by using a lower concentration but I just disagree with that thought process.

I look at it like this. When I mix up a tank of herbicide, I'm looking to control a target weed X. Weed X, as a species, will have varying amounts of resistance to my herbicide (young vs old, stressed vs non stressed, sick vs healthly). So, if I cut my rate to 50-60% of the label for whatever reason, transport to the root system, save money, make the jug go farther, whatever, I may not be able to control those healthier, older, more established plants. By contoling the younger, weaker plants and leaving the healthier plants, you've just selected the healthiest and strongest plant to survive and reproduce making the next generation that much stronger.

To use some numbers, let's say my 50% concentration controls 80% of target weed X. I've just selected the best 20% of the population to survive and reproduce, which over time, will make them harder to control. It boils down to herbicide resistance.

I'm a big believer in using different modes of action in differing years. Weed X may have good resistance to one mode but susceptible to another. That's how I manage resistance on the farm.


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## rjmoses

Bonfire said:


> Well, my target was volunteer Sweet Gum trees about two foot tall in a three year old cleared cow pasture. The Triclopyr did a really good job on those. I had about 20 gallons left so I caught some Milkweed and others on the way back to the house.
> 
> I guess I can see where you are coming from by using a lower concentration but I just disagree with that thought process.
> 
> ......
> 
> I'm a big believer in using different modes of action in differing years. Weed X may have good resistance to one mode but susceptible to another. That's how I manage resistance on the farm.


"I'm a big believer in using different modes of action in differing years." Me, too.

As I said at the end, the application rate depends on many, many factors. What I was trying to emphasize is that sometimes too much herbicide can actually be deleterious to controlling certain weeds.

Plant growth stage, moisture, soil type, time of year, temperature, and many other factors will affect the way a weed reacts to the herbicide. So it's necessary to apply a certain amount of judgement to the application rate.

Or, to put it another way, the philosophy of "if a little is good, more is better" isn't always applicable.

Ralph


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## Texasmark

Lots of luck on milkweed. Dynamite maybe! Real hard critter to control. However, I never used the P (Grazon P+D) on it. Who knows.

Mark


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## slowzuki

Yeah I haven't had much luck either. Roundup'd a bunch of it and the new shoots came up next to the dead stalks.



Texasmark said:


> Lots of luck on milkweed. Dynamite maybe! Real hard critter to control. However, I never used the P (Grazon P+D) on it. Who knows.
> 
> Mark


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Having same problem here with Milk Weeds, I left about 2-3 weeks growth and hit the fields with Crossbow/Candor and 2 weeks later new shoots coming up. Can I hit it again?


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## FarmerCline

Depending on what rate you applied you may or may not be able to spray again, look on the label and see what the maximum rate per year is. You may want to try a different chemical if they are coming back strong. Crossbow is a mix of 2,4d ester and a low concentration of triclopyr. I guessing the triclopyr is what would do the most damage to milkweeds so if that's the case you could use remedy ultra which is a much stronger concentration of triclopyr so it may have more effect and its cheaper than crossbow for the amount of chemical you are getting. I am getting ready to try grazon p and d on milkweeds and see what that does but you have to have applicators license to spray that.


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## endrow

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Having same problem here with Milk Weeds, I left about 2-3 weeks growth and hit the fields with Crossbow/Candor and 2 weeks later new shoots coming up. Can I hit it again?


Depends on your rate the first time most residual products have limit per cutting and limit per year .With These residual products you cannot apply to much,, calibrate the sprayer properly no guessing


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## JD3430

Just an FYI. According to what I have read, milkweed and its evil cousin dogbane, even if you spray it and it dies, the residual dead plant turned brown or black is still deadly to horses. So even if the plant wilts and dries up, if it gets in the bale, it's just as toxic as a green plant.


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## slowzuki

Dried common milkweed is minimally toxic from what I read. At most points in its lifecycle it isn't toxic. People eat the seed pods in some places. I have read force feeding a diet of it to sheep will cause problems but they normally pick around the tough stems.

Dogbane I don't know, don't have any here.



JD3430 said:


> JD3430, on 26 Jun 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:
> Just an FYI. According to what I have read, milkweed and its evil cousin dogbane, even if you spray it and it dies, the residual dead plant turned brown or black is still deadly to horses. So even if the plant wilts and dries up, if it gets in the bale, it's just as toxic as a green plant.


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## JD3430

Dogbane looks just like milkweed and is often mistaken for milkweed. Form what ive read, It appears to be very toxic. even after it is dried, withered and dead, it retains its toxins.
Quote from "horse online magazine"

"Hemp dogbane is poisonous to horses, with the leaves being toxic at all times. Dried leaves in hay are also toxic. The toxic substance is a glycoside that might cause digestive disturbances, diarrhea, and overall weakness."


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## Richardin52

Couple ways to control milkweed.

I have some in pastures but by mob grazing my cattle they will eat the tops and tread down what they don't eat. A little will come back but it will be set back pretty hard.

Milkweed tends to grow in patches because it spreads not only by seed but by the roots too. If you keep a patch mowed like a lawn it will kill it. Plowing and harrowing will do the same thing if you harrow to kill any new growth over a period of time say 3 weeks give or take.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Milkweed and hemp dogbane are very hard to get rid of other than spot spraying with some harsh chemicals. Grazon and Forefront just make it mad. Also, Grazon has a residual that will not let you plant a broadleaf type plant( soybeans) for years.


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## JD3430

Crazy thing I did: I had a nice day and made a bunch of windrows with a little more dogbane in em than I like to see. 
Jumped off the tractor and pulled it out of the raked windrows by hand. It was easy and I made dozens more clean bales. It's easy to spot in windrows. Didnt get ALL of it, but I bet I got more than 1/2! 
Still scared sh*tless that I'm gonna make someone's horse sick no matter how hard I try.

Do horses grab a mouthful of hay and if they taste some kind of poison weed, do they spit it out? Or do they just chomp down poison weeds and suffer the consequences?


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## slowzuki

I pull out every milkweed I see too. I've not seen any horses eating it, even the sheep leave it, but these are all animals on pasture during most of the year. Some horses seen to get sick from the least things. One up the road is allergic to fly bites. Not sure how thats working out, I've got a few dozen right now and I've done my darnedest not to get bitten.


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## DSLinc1017

JD3430 said:


> Just an FYI. According to what I have read, milkweed and its evil cousin dogbane, even if you spray it and it dies, the residual dead plant turned brown or black is still deadly to horses. So even if the plant wilts and dries up, if it gets in the bale, it's just as toxic as a green plant.


I am no expert, however I can tell you from many years as a horse owner that my horses will pick through a bale and leave a pile of milk weed stalks in front of the feeder. I have 20 ac of field with some bad patches of milk weed. I have been out there pulling it out by hand. I have been thinking about spraying for it. ( Why im reading this thread) From what it sounds like pulling it by hand is a good solution. Not that I have all the time in the world to go out and pull milk weed! Perhaps I will try spot spraying with 2-4D.

On another note, from my kids perspective, monarch butterflies rely on milk weed to survive.

With that I'm on the fence... Thoughts? ( with perspective please)


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## rjmoses

Talking with a friend of mine the other day, he told me that the milkweed juice is great for removing warts. Just dab it on 1-2 times a day for about week and the wart disappears.

Maybe you have a new crop?

Ralph


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## DSLinc1017

rjmoses said:


> Talking with a friend of mine the other day, he told me that the milkweed juice is great for removing warts. Just dab it on 1-2 times a day for about week and the wart disappears.Maybe you have a new crop?Ralph


Yea along with baling rain as a new cash crop!

No seriously, I don't want it in my hay. Specifically my customers don't!


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## cwright

DSLinc1017 said:


> On another note, from my kids perspective, monarch butterflies rely on milk weed to survive.
> 
> With that I'm on the fence... Thoughts? ( with perspective please)


Interesting on the butterflys. http://ed.fnal.gov/entry_exhibits/insect/monarch.html Heres a link with interesting information. I looked closley at the milk weed shoots and saw the butterfly larve.

Sprayed 24 D and Grazon P&D in March. Cut and baled Labor day week. I noticed there is some wilting in the new growth from the residual but I dont think its enough to kill it.

May spray it again.

CW


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## Texasmark

On milkweed control, what really chaps me are the non-resident, non-caring neighbors that could be miles away that don't maintain their property. Milkweed and other things grow wild and this time of year the little parachutes are everywhere. So here you do all this work in an attempt to rid yourself of the pest and here come the little tidbits courtesy your neighbors to nullify and void all your efforts.

Mark


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## dubltrubl

Texasmark said:


> On milkweed control, what really chaps me are the non-resident, non-caring neighbors that could be miles away that don't maintain their property. Milkweed and other things grow wild and this time of year the little parachutes are everywhere. So here you do all this work in an attempt to rid yourself of the pest and here come the little tidbits courtesy your neighbors to nullify and void all your efforts.
> 
> Mark


Mark,

We fight that here constantly. We have smaller patches surrounded by farmland and other small fallow fields that the neighbors will not take care of. The farmland causes us little problem since the farmer is very diligent about keeping the place up including clipping and spraying the levees and field roads. Very well maintained! The neighbors on the other hand won't spend the money on fuel, or even get off of their duffs from in front of the 24 hr ballgames to even pass a mower over anything. Come fall, all of the lovely noxious weeds are in glorious bloom and mother nature sees fit to call in a nice stiff breeze blowing across our land. At that time I get out my notebook and jot down what weeds I'll be fighting off next spring!

Regards,

Steve


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## Hayman1

Surmount gets hemp dogbane, horse nettles and milkweed. Used it last year and it burned them out. Milkweed came back this year in some places but not all. Unless you have a real infestation of these plants I don't think you need to worry too much about killing someones horse or making them deathly sick. we have horses and don't fret over it. If you have ever seen a horse leave granular supplements in a feed tub while eating the sweet feed clean, you know that they are or can be very selective about what they ingest. The horse nettle has stickers, adn the other two are bitter so they are not likely to eat or eat very far on a plant.

If you look around at horse paddocks (at least in the mid atlantic) you see plenty of fescue, wire grass, hemp dogbane, and milkweed and they are not dying and not eating the toxic plants. I personally love fescue-grows when other things don't, does not get fungle diseases like OG, is not suseptable to mites like timothy and makes a good tonnage yield with less fertilizer. But then there are those that liken it to cyanide-they are just ignorant about what is in their paddocks.

on caution-people that leave horses in paddocks with no grass but a few toxic weeds will have problems as the horse will eventually eat out of hunger. Suppose that applies for hay with a high percentage of toxic weeds as well.

On the carryover-yeah you are not supposed to sell the hay. Problem is anything that works well on toxic stuff has a carryover warning. I make sure that my customers are not providing waste straw to the mushroom guys and are not giving or selling manure to gardners. Don't know what else to do on that. The only carryover issue I have seen that is real bad is treatment followed by reseeding after the prescribed wait time. I think you have to over winter or over summer before reseeding and if you over summer, you have weeds. Sometimes if you over winter after a fall herbicide app, you end up with chickweed, henbit and speedwell as your new best friends and you get to start all over. I have now decided that if i have a really bad weed problem that I can not control largely by frequent cutting, I am going to use RUp with no residual or wait time.


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## JD3430

I get vast patches of dogbane (frequently mistaken for milkweed). Looks like smaller, thinner milkweed.
I am beginning to think a RU weed wiper would be better because I need the stuff killed for good. Tired of dealing with it.


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## Hayman1

JD3430 said:


> I get vast patches of dogbane (frequently mistaken for milkweed). Looks like smaller, thinner milkweed.
> I am beginning to think a RU weed wiper would be better because I need the stuff killed for good. Tired of dealing with it.


Is dogbane like milkweed adn Johnson grass-you have to get it when it is about to flower to have the herbicide translocated to the roots to kill it for good? Most of the time around here people spray or wick JG too early then wonder why it is back the following year. I wait til the panicle is emerged and burn the devil out of it-sometimes with 2 cups of pure bred roundup in a 3 gal sprayer. It does not come back from that and it is easy to reseed the burned patch later. Does dogbane have a corm or tuber like milkweed-I haven't looked as I have not had that much problem with it. Milkweed on the other hand-its a PITA


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## JD3430

I'd like to try a wiper, have no idea what to buy, how to use. Gotta do something though.


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## Hayman1

JD3430 said:


> I'd like to try a wiper, have no idea what to buy, how to use. Gotta do something though.


JD- I had this hand wiper on a plastic shaft that had a wick roll (like a glorified paint roller) on the end and a qt tank at top for pure ru. I could never get it to work well but it looked like just the ticket for walking through fields for the occasional really bad weed. Ever tried one of those? Would give you something else to do to stay out of trouble in the evening or very early morning.


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## slowzuki

I think those are called hockey stick wipers.


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## Vol

You can take a look at http://www.smuckermfg.net/Pages/Products.aspx JD....they have different sizes....I bought one of their Red Weeders after Ralph Moses told me about them a few years ago.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses

Vol said:


> You can take a look at http://www.smuckermfg.net/Pages/Products.aspx JD....they have different sizes....I bought one of their Red Weeders after Ralph Moses told me about them a few years ago.
> 
> Regards, Mike


How's it work for you? I just came in from wacking a bunch more johnsongrass with one.

Ralph


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## Vol

Works good Ralph.....just slow....but great for doing spot work. Had some Palmer Amaranth coming into a edge of a field that I let get too big so I loaded it with a good dose of 2-4d and put it to sleep.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1

Vol said:


> You can take a look at http://www.smuckermfg.net/Pages/Products.aspx JD....they have different sizes....I bought one of their Red Weeders after Ralph Moses told me about them a few years ago.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike-thanks for the link, I get one and give it a try. Might as well multitask when I am scouting fields.


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