# Wisconsin haying



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I was up near Madison, WI, over the weekend and saw 4 farms that had hay on the ground. In every case, they raked it late in the afternoon to early eavening and then let it sit for at least a day. All of them used rollabar rakes, sometimes raking a double windrow.

What puzzled me was why they raked today, baled tomorrow or day after?

Ralph


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rjmoses said:


> I was up near Madison, WI, over the weekend and saw 4 farms that had hay on the ground. In every case, they raked it late in the afternoon to early eavening and then let it sit for at least a day. All of them used rollabar rakes, sometimes raking a double windrow.
> 
> What puzzled me was why they raked today, baled tomorrow or day after?
> 
> Ralph


Because hay is SUPPOSED to finish drying in the windrow. Raking is to form a windrow capable of finishing the drying process, NOT to gather ready-to-bale crop right in front of a baler.

We always rake at about 50% moisture. Basically, that's wilted flat, but still green-- about the point that guys making baleage would start to bale. Leaf loss is for all intents and purposes nil. Then the hay finishes drying in the windrow to about 15% for baling.

Down here in our conditions, I can cut today, rake 20-24 hours later, and bale 24 hours after that, roughly speaking.

I'll never understand these guys around here... they advertise "fertilized bermuda" that they've babied and sprayed and fertilized out the wazzou, then they cut it and leave it laying flat on the field for the rest of the week to bleach and burn up in the sun. Then they come in with a rake and roll it up into a windrow, bone dry stuff crushing up like powder, and another guy pulling a baler right behind it (or hitching the baler to the back of the rake in some cases). Making a bale of bleached, sunburned sticks that looks like wheat bedding straw.

I may be baling mostly prairie hay and a some bermuda and bluestem, but my hay is still fresh and green and smells like flue-cured tobacco when I unroll it, fresh as a summer day.

Oh well... to each his own I guess...

later! OL J R


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> What puzzled me was why they raked today, baled tomorrow or day after?
> 
> Ralph


Ralph,

SOP for me in alfalfa, rake at 35-45% moisture (a little drier than Luke), IF done raking early enough in the day (1-2pm), it might be possible to bale 5-6pm that day, but usually bale the following day. Depending upon ground moisture, humidity, sunshine, wind speed and amount of dew, as a 'few' variables to throw in the mix.

By raking this way, less leaf loss (quality in alfalfa) and less beaching (alfalfa again). Sometimes (high ground moisture), I do turn it the following day, but then again usually several hours BEFORE baling moisture is achieved.

There are some people in my area that also do the 'hitch hiking' method Luke mentions, but quality is NEVER seems to be their goal.

Whereas quality IS to ME, the better quality I put up, the less I have to feed my cattle and the more I can sell in MY AREA.

Larry


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Got it! Thanks guys. I understand why they were doing that for alfalfa, but why OG as well?

Different strokes for different folks. I don't have a problem with low humidity -- I seldom get below 60% and overnight usually hits 90%+.

Ralph


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I have ALWAYS used wheel rakes....I was taught young they don't beat up the alfalfa.....But does a rollabar really beat it up ??? Does it "Rope" the hay ??? Really curious , they sure are easier it seems........


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> Got it! Thanks guys. I understand why they were doing that for alfalfa, but why OG as well?
> 
> Ralph


Probably does not make sense today, but then again hard to change a habit perhaps?

They use to do alfalfa,

Or use to do it that way BEFORE they had moco.

Or the see their neighbor doing that way (who is doing alfalfa) so they 'follow the crowd'.

Larry


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## Hawk40 (Jun 28, 2015)

r82230 said:


> Ralph,
> 
> SOP for me in alfalfa, rake at 35-45% moisture (a little drier than Luke), IF done raking early enough in the day (1-2pm), it might be possible to bale 5-6pm that day, but usually bale the following day. Depending upon ground moisture, humidity, sunshine, wind speed and amount of dew, as a 'few' variables to throw in the mix.
> 
> ...


I think you nailed it, and once in awhile when the conditions are really in your corner it comes out GREEN


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

Hawk40 said:


> I think you nailed it, and once in awhile when the conditions are really in your corner it comes out GREEN


WOW ! And I mean WOW !!! Gotta frame that !!!!!


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Tater Salad said:


> I have ALWAYS used wheel rakes....I was taught young they don't beat up the alfalfa.....But does a rollabar really beat it up ??? Does it "Rope" the hay ??? Really curious , they sure are easier it seems........


I make dairy quality alfalfa. My buyers would not think of buying my hay if I used a wheel rake for alfalfa. The ash content tends to be much higher with wheel rakes as they drag in undergrowth as they go along. I know Cy uses a V-rake, and am curious how his customers fare. My HT154 is set for light ground pressure, but that only gets used in straw and cornstalks.

Raking with a bar rake can rope the hay if done improperly, and there are days you can't rake it properly.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rjmoses said:


> Got it! Thanks guys. I understand why they were doing that for alfalfa, but why OG as well?
> 
> Different strokes for different folks. I don't have a problem with low humidity -- I seldom get below 60% and overnight usually hits 90%+.
> 
> Ralph


All I bale is grass hay (well, most of the time). I do it the same way because the quality is SO much better!

As I read in a book one time (the same one that makes the point to start raking at about 50% moisture (wilted flat), "hay will NEVER be any higher quality than it is the moment it's cut. After hay is cut, the entire process is about maintaining maximum quality and minimizing loss until it is harvested into the bale and placed into storage." This reflects not only on timeliness of cutting (making sure that the grass or forage is at the optimum state of quality for maximizing tonnage or feed value (which is rarely the same time BTW) but also on they haymaking process itself. The goal should always be to get the forage dried down to the proper levels (depending on what process you're using, be it dry hay, baleage, chopping for silage, etc) while maintaining the maximum amount of nutritional value that is in the forage at the moment it's cut. Some WILL be lost-- the process simply cannot be achieved with 100% efficiency and 0% loss... BUT through proper handling and curing, cutting, raking, and baling, and proper handling of those processes, losses can be minimized and maximum quality retained.

Maybe up north it's not as bad, but here, sun bleaching of hay is a SERIOUS issue. One that IMHO far too many people just don't take seriously. Sun bleaching or sunburn of the forage turns valuable carotene in the forage plant tissues into basically worthless Vitamin D, among many other things. The goal should be to get the cut forage down to baling moisture as rapidly as possible, to reduce losses from continuing respiration of the cut plants, which burns up sugar reserves in the forage until the plant moisture drops to below about 50% moisture, until the plant's stomata close to attempt to prevent moisture loss. This is best achieved by spreading the hay as wide as possible when cutting, as wide as conditions and equipment will allow, to thin the crop "mat" as thinly as possible to speed drying down to this level. Raking when "wilted flat" then moves the crop into the final windrow, while the leaves are still moist and limber enough not to shatter or be damaged, while the windrow then allows air movement to continue the drying process down to desired baling moisture, while minimizing exposure to the sun's UV rays and minimizing the effects of bleaching of the forage. It's about minimizing UV damage to the crop, since the stuff on the outside of the windrow DOES still get sun bleached, BUT, the forage inside the windrow and under it is shaded by the forage on the outside surface, which helps to maintain its quality much higher.

IF the forage is not dry enough on the bottom of the windrow for baling, at that point the windrow can be flipped to allow the bottom to dry out sufficiently, but this should be done when the forage is damp from dew or moist enough to minimize leaf loss and damage.

Like I said, I see LOTS of guys advertising "fertilized bermuda hay" for prices running from ridiculous to cheap, and I watch MOST of the guys in these parts cut hay with regular disk mowers, leave it flat on the field for five days to a week, and then rake and bale it within an hour of each other. Invariably this hay looks about as nutritious as wheat straw. I don't care if they ARE fertilizing the living crap out of it; a lot of custom guys around here won't even come cut a guy's crop for sometimes 2-3 weeks after he calls (when bermudagrass SHOULD be cut on a 28 day schedule for maximum quality) and then when they DO show up, they knock it down and leave it sit til the end of the week and then come out and rake it and roll it up right behind it. Makes NO sense to me. Course a lot of these guys never bother to come out of the tractor cab and actually look at the crop, either. When I was doing custom baling, and when I do my own now, I would go check on the forage sometimes 2-3 times a day, to see what the moisture was doing. Generally speaking, cutting one day would put raking 24 hours later, and usually bale 24 hours after that, and put up good, green, soft, sweet-smelling round bales in fine-stemmed grass hay. Of course sorghum sudan is a different story, as are many other things... but for bermudagrass and "prairie hay" it holds true. It's hard NOT to let bermudagrass get too dry! Sometimes 24 hours is TOO LONG to wait to rake! Takes a little longer to get the stems dry sometimes, but it really depends on how big it is and how the weather is.

Anyway, that's been my experience... course I've had a LOT of guys get plum mad when I talk about 'how it is' versus 'how it should be' but that doesn't change the facts... Oh well... I see guys talk about how worthless johnsongrass and ryegrass is too... LOL

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tater Salad said:


> I have ALWAYS used wheel rakes....I was taught young they don't beat up the alfalfa.....But does a rollabar really beat it up ??? Does it "Rope" the hay ??? Really curious , they sure are easier it seems........


Like most things, it's all in how you use it. How you set it up, how you adjust it, how you run it, and what your crops and conditions are like. Most people I've seen don't really have a clue how to set up a rolabar rake properly. Most guys I've seen think they should plow with the darn thing-- dirt flying and the tines digging into the dirt, because they're scared they're going to leave a little behind. Well, first off, you NEVER harvest 100% of the crop, REGARDLESS of what the crop is or machinery you're using to harvest it (cotton picker, combine, baler, rake, cutter, chopper, etc.) There is ALWAYS SOME level of harvest losses. The trick is, and the difference between an OPERATOR and a "tractor driver" is that the operator knows his machines and knows how to adjust them to do the best job at the highest productivity while minimizing losses to acceptable levels. I've seen it with combining too-- any trained chimp can get in a combine and drive it around nowdays-- heck they're not much more complicated than a riding mower anymore, BUT, a GOOD OPERATOR knows how to SET the machine to do a good job-- how fast he can run it to still do a good job harvesting and get the cleanest, most damage-free and least harvest losses while still maximizing productivity and the machine's capabilities to the extent possible. It's a TRADE OFF and the secret is in finding that "healthy balance". If you run "wide open" yeah you can cover a LOT of acres, but you also have a lot of losses, a lot of cracked grain, and a lot of trash in the grain tank from a poor cleaning job, and ride a lot out of the back of the machine. It's all about finding that BALANCE to do the best job based on the priorities and what's acceptable and not acceptable from various standpoints (productivity vs. quality, etc).

Setting a hay rake is no different. I've seen guys plowing with wheel rakes too, so it's not just a rolabar rake thing. Setting the right basket height, and one of the most important settings on a rolabar rake is USUALLY rusted solid because of non-use-- setting the tilt of the basket to match conditions and make the best windrow. Set it too low or leave it set at the bottom all the time, and they WILL rope hay in a lot of crops and conditions. Set it too high, and the windrows can be SO high and fluffy they blow apart on the field before you can bale them. Rake too fast, and the windrow rolls off the end of the basket so fast it keeps rolling and flops all over the place.

I see and hear guys all the time cussing this machine or that machine and saying how they're 'absolute junk' and no good and all this, and most of the time, IT'S THEM... not knowing what their doing, not taking the time to read the manual and learn, or do some research, or inspect things and follow things through and find out WHY something isn't working right.

Usually something that's "absolute junk" won't be around long enough, won't be sold to enough guys to be anything but a rare oddity. IOW, chances are, if they made a million(s) of them, then they must be working good for SOMEBODY.

Later! OL J R


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I rake nearly everything the day before I intend to bale; partly because it helps keep some color and partly because I work a day job and have little help.

I rake when I get off work @24 hours after cutting (if dry enough) and bale the next day when I get off of work (if it's dry enough). Usually I try to put down all the hay I can get off the field in a particular evening...raking time would cut into by baling time if I didn't spread it out over 2 evenings.

My biggest concern, next to rain on my hay, is wind that blows my windrows apart causing me to have to rake again.

73, Mark


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Isn't it funny:

I was down in Texas a few years ago and the ranch I was at would go out at midnight and test the moisture every hour, waiting for it to get high enough to bale!

At about 7:00 PM, my moisture moves in and my hay get too tough to bale. I can't even think of baling past 8 PM. If I can't get it done by then, it's tomorrow after 11 AM.

One place I was at in Nebraska mowed into tall, narrow windrows, baled without raking. Grrreeennnn hay---greener than anything I've ever seen hereabouts. Tall, narrow windrows take an extra day (if I don't ted.)

I often rake and bale at the same time. My cousin is raking, I'm following with the baler. Like to get more color, but not at the expense of dryness.

WI'nites rake today, bale tomorrow. A windrow raked today will not dry by a week from now most of the time--just too much moisture at night.

Tried teff a few years ago, just couldn't get it dry.

Getting 4 days drying time in La Nina years was pure luck. This year need the rain!

Like I said above: Different strokes....

Ralph

"A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" (to get his hay dry).


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

stack em up said:


> I make dairy quality alfalfa. My buyers would not think of buying my hay if I used a wheel rake for alfalfa. The ash content tends to be much higher with wheel rakes as they drag in undergrowth as they go along. I know Cy uses a V-rake, and am curious how his customers fare. My HT154 is set for light ground pressure, but that only gets used in straw and cornstalks.
> Raking with a bar rake can rope the hay if done improperly, and there are days you can't rake it properly.


I don't sell much to dairies and when I have they never have mentioned ash content.Dairies can be a finicky bunch I will agree,and sometimes you just shake your hd.Deliverd hay to one dairy for 3 months that was 149RFV then all the sudden they said it was not good enough.The next yr delivered hay at 184rfv and then they said that was to good.Another dairy that I was delivering hay testing 175rfv cancelled the rest of the order and started feeding straw and byproducts.A lot easier selling to feedlots,her backgrounders and for stock cows and not much price difference anyway here.

back to the original subject of rakeing,I will V rake 2 windrows together in the morning with dew on to save the leaves and usually bale the next morning with the dew to save leaves.Lately I been baleing the same day as rakeing with the high humidity it hasn't gotten to dry and is 15-16% when baleing


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

Being 6 miles from the Wisconsin border, albeit on the north end, I'll chime in on how we get hay dry here. We cut with a 16' sp sickle (8' swath),ted (6 basket) once usually early next day, then double v rake (32') on day three , and bale at 15%. The timing varies considerably depending on weather. We're not in Texas gang. Occasionally we will make 16' singles with the Kuhn rotary rake ,if a weather system is approaching and we need to hasten drying. Having picked up a tedder at the start of this season, it feels like we departed the Stone Age and now can get it dry in a hurry. We run grass/alfalfa mix. 
We've had great weather in June.....makes it easy to get hay off with no rain, no acid, minimal anxiety. Yesterday with both balers (nh 7070 and the nh9060) punched out 80 acres in 4 hours. What a difference from last year, weather wise.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Hear my first cutting is hard to get dry so some times I have to Ted twice then rake it takes 4 days most of the time on the first cutting. But then from their on I can normally cut then Ted right behind the mower rake the net morning then bail the next day and get really Good color and a good sweet smell.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

They could have been just merging or raking for haylage or baleage. When was the hay cut? I found that if you rake a day ahead, the dew the next morning stays in the rows and it may be late in the day before you can bale. The hay you rake that morning will be ready to bale before the hay you rake the day before. The last couple of years we have had a lot of dew mornings and you can't start raking until late morning but I have already during a dry spell, raked hay at sunrise. Last year when the big square baler was here for one field, he plugged it in the early evening with just a few rounds to finish, when we got it unplugged he tried again but by that time the tires were damp, had to wait until the next day to finish.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tater Salad said:


> I have ALWAYS used wheel rakes....I was taught young they don't beat up the alfalfa.....But does a rollabar really beat it up ??? Does it "Rope" the hay ??? Really curious , they sure are easier it seems........


We went from using two NH rolabars and a twin hitch to the Vrake I bought, I wouldn't go back to rolabars if you gave me two brand new ones and a brand new hydraulic bridge hitch.


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## NebTrac (Aug 12, 2014)

We have a dairy here in Nebraska that is 1/2 mile East (thank goodness) of us. Their low side cut off for RFV is 180 using the Wisconsin test. Last year was my first year for trying to get dairy quality hay, that didn't happen.

I will keep trying. I have high hopes for my second cut Hy-Gest 360, as last year was the first planting. We will see....BUT. For that Wisconsin test I will only use the rotary rake. Since buying one last year I can definitely tell the difference when I bale behind it compared to the V-Rake. Even in the same field, there is much more dust flying with the V-Rake and ash is for sure higher with the V during the baling process.

I'm not knocking the V, I use both V-Rake and rotary depending on time and what the hay will go for. As for loss of leaf, what I've noticed is when done at the right time on alfalfa, leaf loss is minimal regardless of the rake. Teslan (I believe) made a statement that the sun's angle at the time of the year may have something to do with color and quality and there maybe something to that. The only time I've made hay that looked like Hawk40's picture was 4th and 5th cut in Sept. and Oct. in our central Nebraska Climate.

Last year I did a 28 day cut and 24 day cut on the same field (2nd and 3rd cutting). Both cuts were put up in 2½ day and no rain, yet had RFV of (142 and 143). Haven't tested anything this year...so we'll see how it goes.

Troy


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## Hawk40 (Jun 28, 2015)

The alfalfa in my picture was the third (final) cutting late August, nights generally start getting cold here then. It was cloudy and smoky from big fires in Wa,but dry and very breezy.
Color was almost freaky, but it was dry and fully cured.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hawk40 said:


> The alfalfa in my picture was the third (final) cutting late August, nights generally start getting cold here then. It was cloudy and smoky from big fires in Wa,but dry and very breezy.
> Color was almost freaky, but it was dry and fully cured.


Thanks for the explanation, for a while I thought you might have 'Photoshop' trying to impress the dairy cows. :lol:

But is sure is pretty.

Larry


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## Circle MC Farms LLC (Jul 22, 2011)

Well I haven't been doing this very long (only three years, and only been learning for about 6 years) but *HERE *we bale everything right behind the rake. I'm far enough in East Texas that the humidity is killer. The problem is some days it's really high and then some weeks are so dry you can bale dry hay in 24-36 hours. I don't "leave it till the end of the week" or let it bleach if I can help it. I don't ever see myself raking a day ahead of the baler, especially when it's windy. Used to do that when I only had one tractor but now that I have two it wouldn't make a lick of sense; I had to re-rake 30 acres after a dust devil came through and I cussed every minute of it. I do agree that there are people who let hay get far too dry but I routinely bale right behind the rake and put up 9-15 CP/ 60+ TDN hay. Now, it doesn't look scary green like Hawk40's alfalfa, here if it's that green it means it isn't dry, but it makes pretty good hay.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm gonna go off the path here and I'm sure some of y'all will disagree with me but this is how I see it.

Here in Texas all my hay is raked and baled at the exact same time with the baler hooked behind the rake. There is a few exceptions this year cause some fields are to wet and the rig is to heavy but this is how I do it the rest of the time. Y'all can preach all about this coastal Bermuda grass but it's not alfalfa, it don't matter how it's baled it's just a filler anyways. You will always have to feed supplements with it, unlike alfalfa. Coastal is a lot like the angus association, a marketing skeem. People think oh that's pretty green coastal hay, horse quality! Whatever you think fella, go ahead and pay 9 dollars a bale for that square bale, I'll go pay 12 for alfalfa and cut out my grain expenses. 
I bale a lot of really good coastal hay that tests out very good and don't put near the inveses some people put into it. I also bale a lot of crappy coastal hay that sometimes only gets cut one time a year and is over dried but guess what, cattle eat it just as good as they eat the better stuff and you still have to feed supplements with it compared to alfalfa.

Now if I went up north and was given an Alfalfa field I would be clueless and look like a dumba**. We down here in Texas have it easy. Y'all guys up there are the ones making the real hay. 
Just how I see it


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## Cozyacres (Jul 16, 2009)

Well I am in North central WI.

Day 1, I cut in the morning after dew is mostly off,

Day 2, rake when the hay is dry on top but still damp or tough on bottom, I just try to flip it, not roll it over and over. If I don't rake on day 2 hay will not be dry day 3

Day 3 if day one, two and three were sunny I can bale in the early afternoon.

I usually don't have more than 3 days between rain storms


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