# round baler recommendation



## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Starting my research for buying a round baler for my horse hay operation. I grow Alicia Bermuda horse hay on small East Texas ranch but only harvest about 35-40 acres of hay with four cuttings in normal year. I sell small square bales to mostly horse clients and average 4.5-5.2 tons of hay per acre annually with normal rain. I'm going to add some additional acreage this May and am considering a round baler as some clients have requested the smaller round bales. Main advantage would be ability to bale and get hay in barn faster with little labor if weather is a problem. So far I have never had my hay rained on in 4 years so I have a good track record but part of the good news is the bad news of droughts, hot Texas weather, and the smaller operation. All my land is near the barns and I can haul about 315 bales an hour to the barn with a New Holland Stackliner. I just dump the bales and my stackers put it up while I'm getting a new load. I don't use the stackliner to stack as it only goes 7 bales high and I stack it at least 12-13 bales high with the hay crew. Cost more this way in labor but saves me from building more barns. My plan would be to only use the round baler on first cutting hay, although my fields are usually weed free or when weather is a problem. I would make about 30-40 % more on small square bales per cutting even accounting for labor but I would love to have the luxury of have a backup round baler. If we retain the 179 tax write off I'd probably buy new as I don't want any downtime for MX as that is why I would have a round baler backup. Currently I have a fairly new New Holland square baler and it has been bullet proof. It is three years old and the only maintenance required so far is sharpening the plunger knives. Sorry for long post but I wanted to draw an accurate picture of my requirements. Any recommendations for new and used round balers and any to stay away from? Have a nice Easter and send us some of the rain everyone seems to be getting


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Jturbo, can't beat the Deere bro, get net for sure. I say this only because as you know I do about the same as you, I only roll what I have to, I don't like to roll. Ideally I only use mine for first cut as well, but sometimes, like last year, I had to roll a lot of hay, I personally don't think the net offers any advantage other than time....I use 28 wraps on the twine and it holds up to rain very well, I don't store rounds in the barn, as you know barn space is for squares  at the price I have to charge for rounds, I can't even afford to leave them outside! I also do a few rounds of quality horse hay for people but I charge them $65 a roll (4x5 900#)...need to charge more. That being said, I have a br 7060 w/o net, paid 22k for it bout 5 yrs ago, net was 7k more, shoulda bought it....nothin worse than tumbling that damn bale around and around while wrapping twine, 2 revs and it's out with the net.....time savings alone it's worth it. 
Now if I have rained on cow hay, I may run 12 wraps of string and sell (give away) immediately to cow folks, they can in turn place it under cover if they so choose. The 469 is one bad ass machine, what you may find is that with net, you may can pick up some custom bale jobs that will help make the payment every year.
Deere has 0% financing right now on balers, 469 priced to me the other day was 37k...alot of money, they would trade in my 7060 at 8k, only ran maybe 2k bales through it...think ill keep it damn it....


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I run a NH BR780A 5x6 baler. I have been considering switching to a 4x6 baler so I can haul with oversizing the load.

My horse customer like a smaller bale -- usually 56"x5. My cattle customer like a bigger baler -- 5x6 -- but this puts limitations on hauling.

4x6 would allow me to go 4x5 or bigger.

Ralph


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> I run a NH BR780A 5x6 baler. I have been considering switching to a 4x6 baler so I can haul with oversizing the load.My horse customer like a smaller bale -- usually 56"x5. My cattle customer like a bigger baler -- 5x6 -- but this puts limitations on hauling.4x6 would allow me to go 4x5 or bigger.Ralph


That's my problem, cow folks want big bales, horse folk usually have smaller machinery and want a bit smaller bale. My take, I don't give a crap what the cow folk want, I don't make a penny on cow hay...they can take em or leave em, but I can transport more of them at 4x5 and so can they....


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Can't beat a 468 or 469. If you want to save money you can get a 459 the biggest bale it will make is a 4x5 versus the 4x6 on the 46x deeres. 
Make sure you get net and the mega wide pickup and you won't regret it.


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## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Great comments guys. Sounds like we all have similar issues. Somedevildawg: Agree on focusing on horse customers as they are my bread and butter customers and cow people usually are my early spring wholesale price customers. I used to go to Tifton to get parts at the wholesale agri supply store by the airport and eat catfish at Charles. I only grew corn, beans, and wheat near Warner Robins Ga so didn't deal with hay issues. I think I might check out the JD 459 baler and see if I can qualify for the equine discount. Can't believe the beating you would take on the New Holland baler but I've seen some good Vermeer balers for sale in that same range. Most of the commercial hay balers sold in my area are John Deeres. I bought my NH square baler a lot cheaper than I could buy a used John Deere baler. Love my New Holland baler as it has been a bullet proof one.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't have a round baler anymore due to the fact I was losing money on everyone I sold....it doesn't matter if it was good hay or not could not get more than $30 roll. As long as you can sell the round bales for enough to make some money it would be good to have one for a backup if the weather turns bad quick or no help to get squares up. What does a round bale of quality hay bring in your area?

With that being said if I were ever to get a another round baler it would have net wrap.....worth the extra money in time savings alone. JD makes a good round baler and so does vermeer. Personally I like the Vermeer a little better but they are both top of the line. I would get at least a 4x5 baler but if you can spend the extra money you could get a 4x6 baler which will have a few more features and you can still make the 4x5 for customers that want that size bale. One thing I do like about the JD balers better than the Vermeer is you can get the wide pickup on the 4x5 JD baler while the Vermeer you have to go up to the 4x6 baler to get the wide pickup. The previous mentioned JD models would be excellent choices to look into as well as the Vermeer 504n and 604 super m.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Dawg, I can't believe they only offered you 8k on your 7060. As nice and clean as your baler looked that's like an insult.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

jturbo10 said:


> Great comments guys. Sounds like we all have similar issues. Somedevildawg: Agree on focusing on horse customers as they are my bread and butter customers and cow people usually are my early spring wholesale price customers. I used to go to Tifton to get parts at the wholesale agri supply store by the airport and eat catfish at Charles. I only grew corn, beans, and wheat near Warner Robins Ga so didn't deal with hay issues. I think I might check out the JD 459 baler and see if I can qualify for the equine discount. Can't believe the beating you would take on the New Holland baler but I've seen some good Vermeer balers for sale in that same range. Most of the commercial hay balers sold in my area are John Deeres. I bought my NH square baler a lot cheaper than I could buy a used John Deere baler. Love my New Holland baler as it has been a bullet proof one.


The equine discount is easy. For one thing, you are producing hay to sell to horse people. We do that and run a small boarding operation.  No issues. Wife has a money pit competion horse.

I bought my 457 wrap this winter for the same reason as you, backup and some of my customers want rbs as well as squares. Had 5K through it and paid 16.5 Looks pretty good and should roll 150 rolls per year for a long time. My real baler is a NH570 hydraformic with 72 thrower.


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## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Wow...you guys are making my search easy. I was not sure if I was going to get net wrap but now I'm convinced that is the way to go. One question on equine discount. Is there some kind of form or paperwork that validates my horse hay operation? I have the county ag exemption for property taxes, the Texas Ag and forestry exemption for sales tax, etc. What will the dealership need???


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Already dead set on green?


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## Sawdust (Feb 24, 2014)

I build fence for a living and make hay cause I like to. I've been using a NH 570 for about 5 years and love it (had a JD 337 before that and a JD 14 before that). I do rental ground with a friend who has a NH Big Baler(3x3) but this year I'm taking a chance and bought a NH 7060. Allot of my customers like the smaller bales but the Amish want big for their cows. With this RB I can change my sizes accordingly and still make a 900 lb. 4x5. Most all of my first cut will be R bales and the rest small squares. I have a Harvest Tec applicator on the 570 and love it, so I bought one with the 7060 (I installed it to save $). baler and applicator ran about 32K. Looking forward to the season.


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## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

No, I'm not set on John Deere only but I'm am convinced I do need to get a round baler with net wrap and mega wide pickup. However, if a great opportunity on a used Vermeer, John Deere, or New Holland round baler presents itself I would be willing to make a deal. I priced a new JD 459 with the bells and whistles and it was almost 40k MSRP...don't know how much they will come off that price but I won't pay that much for a backup round baler and I'm not interested in doing any custom work except for the neighbors.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

85% of msrp is what I have seen. If you have that beat please share.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Net is a life saver. A person loses a lot of the fines when the roll is spinning in the chamber applying string. You spend more time making a roll and less time tying with net.

I do not have enough knowledge on used balers to recommend one. So much depends on how the baler was cared for by the previous owners.

I really like Vermeer balers if going new or slightly used. There have been a lot of yellow balers added in our area the last few years. We have excellent dealer support which is a big plus on any baler.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

for the equine discount, you have to join one of the participating associations. Do an internet search for John Deere Equine discount and it will show you the different associations. Guessing the quarterhorse association would be your most likely bet but there are multiple ones. We are members of the USeventing association. Only applies to new purchases and it is about 20%.

I am with you on the new purchase does not make sense event with the discounts. They want too much for that clearcoat finish without scratches which you will add the first time you use it. I went green (used to be nothing but red and yellow for hay equipment) because I had a NH with the landfill and decided that JD had the best rb. Any of the big boys would likely be fine-just need to find a nice used one that was taken care of.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Net wrap only! Faster cycling, outside bales keep better.

Twine maybe if you're going to store bales inside.

Ralph


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Got a 568 mega wide. 12000 roll through it and never used twine. Too slow


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## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

My neighbors sell their rounds for 50 to 55 dollars per bale to a commercial buyer who then converts them to square bales to sell at feed stores. Not sure how much room I will have for storing rounds inside but I might erect a new round bale only storage unit once I figure out how many rounds I will put up every year. I will start looking at used balers with net first as some good ones come up when people give up on haying operations. This business can bankrupt or wear out people with all the increasing costs, drought, horse and cow herd drawdowns, and lack of cheap labor.

clowers: how big are your bales and how much do they weight? Mind sharing how much you get for your rounds and what kind of hay do you raise?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

jturbo10 said:


> My neighbors sell their rounds for 50 to 55 dollars per bale to a commercial buyer who then converts them to square bales to sell at feed stores. Not sure how much room I will have for storing rounds inside but I might erect a new round bale only storage unit once I figure out how many rounds I will put up every year. I will start looking at used balers with net first as some good ones come up when people give up on haying operations. This business can bankrupt or wear out people with all the increasing costs, drought, horse and cow herd drawdowns, and lack of cheap labor.
> 
> clowers: how big are your bales and how much do they weight? Mind sharing how much you get for your rounds and what kind of hay do you raise?


Turbo, is the neighbor selling those bales in qty? I can't sell my Bermuda for less than 160 a ton or I'm not making money, period. Problem is, the market is at about $45-60 for NET WRAP bales of about 900-1000 # here....can't do it, I would rather put twine on, leave it outside and sell it for 35-45 to cow folk...


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## mshayfarm (Jul 17, 2011)

We run 3000 or more a year thru a Vermeer 5410 with net. In 3 years I've put twine on 20 bales. With fuel at 3.50 a gallon I don't see where anyone can save money with twine. With net it 8-10 seconds dump it and take off again.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Sawdust said:


> I build fence for a living and make hay cause I like to. I've been using a NH 570 for about 5 years and love it (had a JD 337 before that and a JD 14 before that). I do rental ground with a friend who has a NH Big Baler(3x3) but this year I'm taking a chance and bought a NH 7060. Allot of my customers like the smaller bales but the Amish want big for their cows. With this RB I can change my sizes accordingly and still make a 900 lb. 4x5. Most all of my first cut will be R bales and the rest small squares. I have a Harvest Tec applicator on the 570 and love it, so I bought one with the 7060 (I installed it to save $). baler and applicator ran about 32K. Looking forward to the season.


I'm in SE PA, too. Great to have you here.
I'm also running a BR7060 silage special with applicator. 
Are you dealing with AG Industrial at all?

I have to crank the pressure up as much as possible to get a 900lb DRY bale. 
Most of mine end up 850 if they're 16% or less. 
I've got about $29 in my baler and harvest tec applicator.
Good luck and let me know if you need any RBs 
I'll make over 1,000 of them this season.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

jturbo10 said:


> No, I'm not set on John Deere only but I'm am convinced I do need to get a round baler with net wrap and mega wide pickup. However, if a great opportunity on a used Vermeer, John Deere, or New Holland round baler presents itself I would be willing to make a deal. I priced a new JD 459 with the bells and whistles and it was almost 40k MSRP...don't know how much they will come off that price but I won't pay that much for a backup round baler and I'm not interested in doing any custom work except for the neighbors.


jturbo

Some good machines come thru here if your close enough to come look them over. There are also some pieces of junk but if you know what to look for and aren't in a hurry to buy then a guy can get some good deals.

http://brinkleyauctions.com/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mshayfarm said:


> We run 3000 or more a year thru a Vermeer 5410 with net. In 3 years I've put twine on 20 bales. With fuel at 3.50 a gallon I don't see where anyone can save money with twine. With net it 8-10 seconds dump it and take off again.


While I won't completely disagree with you...when you consider the price of a new or used net wrap machine vs a non-net, then consider the diff between the cost of twine vs net...one can buy a whole lot of diesel fuel

Them vermeers ain't that fast are they? My buddies Deere is fast but probably like 40 sec. Idk....never timed it, whatever it was, it was WAY quicker than my 7060.....

All this talk of net got me blacked out....damn I wish I had net, but everything has a price, I just don't do enough to justify, if I produced 3k rounds a year and the market was $60-80 i woulda already had one....


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Dawg- I believe the cost difference does show up in resale. They probably would have offered you $12-$13+ if yours had net on it. 

In my search I concluded if I bought a new baler without net and ever wanted to sell or trade I would get hosed in resale. Kinda like your green paint theory.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Deere and Vermeer wrap and dump about in the same amount of time. Vermeer might be a little quicker wrapping if the operator has the "net load" set to begin wrapping when the buzzer goes off. Unless the settings are tweaked it takes a couple of seconds for the net to load, then begin wrapping. My net is loaded and begins to wrap as soon as the buzzer goes off.

Usually takes about 9 - 10 seconds to put 2.25 wraps on a 4x5 roll, true 60 inch roll.

It takes almost a minute to tie with string, not sure how many wraps my baler is set for.

If a person makes 60 rolls he has saved just shy of an hour baling time.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Dawg- I believe the cost difference does show up in resale. They probably would have offered you $12-$13+ if yours had net on it.
> 
> In my search I concluded if I bought a new baler without net and ever wanted to sell or trade I would get hosed in resale. Kinda like your green paint theory.


When I looked at late model used balers none had wrap. Folks had traded up.

It costs me about 50 cents more to wrap vs string.

Had a guy ask me about rolling some hay for him this year. He stated he did not want net, did not want to pay the extra. I told him it would be $2 more per roll if I had to use string. I do not enjoy sitting while my tractor is at 1850 RPM's and my baler spinning a roll at full weight. The only time a round baler is working at max is when the chamber is full and spinning to tie or wrap.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

So if for 60 bales one saved an hour. Then could roll an additional 20-30 bales in the same time. If I was getting paid say $10 a bale with $2? Of net per bale I just made an additional $160-$240? That net wrap option starts to pay for itself might quick.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> So if for 60 bales one saved an hour. Then could roll an additional 20-30 bales in the same time. If I was getting paid say $10 a bale with $2? Of net per bale I just made an additional $160-$240? That net wrap option starts to pay for itself might quick.


Absolutely it does if you make money on the bales, problem is HERE I would just loose more money even faster....

Just real screwed up the round bale market, the numbers just don't pencil out....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> So if for 60 bales one saved an hour. Then could roll an additional 20-30 bales in the same time. If I was getting paid say $10 a bale with $2? Of net per bale I just made an additional $160-$240? That net wrap option starts to pay for itself might quick.


Last year I had around $1 net cost per roll in a 4x5. A roll of net cost me $270 and I got around 290 rolls of hay per roll of net.

I am pulling this from memory. I have notes somewhere because I changed to Vermeer net and wanted to compare to the other net I had used.


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

I run a 604 super m that makes 4x5-5.5, or my 568 mega wide JD 5 x5.5. Never have gotten around to weighing my bales but they both make great hay. Nice square shouldered bales. Here northeast texas most of these guys are hobby cowpokes and don't want to spend more than 50-55 bucks on hay. So I offer anything from 35 and up. Some Tifton 85 I get 60$ in field or 65$ deliverd. They are yearly customers and know they are getting top quality. I have all kind of fields Tifton 85, coastal and common Bermuda, Bahia and two customers have alfalfa. Also one of my customers has a beautiful Alecia Bermuda field I square for hoarse hay. 
Gotta love hay baling


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

I got 10 boxes of plastic twine in my barn that's been there for 6 years. Would only use it in an emergency like, uh. It would have be big.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I wish I could have the money spent on the twine system on my 7060. Had to take it, came with baler on dealers lot. 
Never used it. 
Nobody up here likes twine wrapped bales.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

My newholland 450 baler is not too slow with twine tie. It puts on anywhere from 15-25 wraps depending on tractor pto speed. Had 3 settings. Low takes 25 seconds. Medium 30 seconds. High35 seconds. 2-3 seconds to stop and start tying and 10 seconds to open and close tail gate. That is one thing new holland has done with the new models is increased speed of bale in the chamber. They claim 20% faster baling, dont know if that is true or not bit it is fast.


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## jturbo10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Both sharecrop their hay and each sell about 150 round bales a season. My nearest neighbor says he doesn't make any money but just wants the write offs. I told him I want the tax writeoffs and make money which can be done selling squares. I prefer the squares customers as they don't try to low ball me on price like the cow people seem to do. I've always sold out of hay in early spring, and this year I was already low after January. Still getting call for hay and lots of when will you be baling again.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm going to resist the temptation of selling out early. Learned a tough lesson having no hay from January through now. Once you get customers relying on you for hay, they expect you to always have it in stock. When you don't, they go elsewhere. When they go elsewhere, they might find better hay or better prices. 
When that happens, you lose your customers. 
I lost a customer this way.


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## 3srcattleco (Apr 24, 2014)

New holland BR 7070 is the best in my opinion. I custom bale and did about 8000 bales last season. My one break down (sucked up a hog panel) I called a fellow competitor. He runs a 568 Deere and he could not bale my windrows. Took two hours to roll up 13 bales. It plugged up so many times I decided I would never own a Deere. But those 13 bales were nice.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

3srcattleco said:


> New holland BR 7070 is the best in my opinion. I custom bale and did about 8000 bales last season. My one break down (sucked up a hog panel) I called a fellow competitor. He runs a 568 Deere and he could not bale my windrows. Took two hours to roll up 13 bales. It plugged up so many times I decided I would never own a Deere. But those 13 bales were nice.


Would love to have seen a picture of the hog panel wrapped bale!, bet hog panel blows net out of the water!

Welcome to HT!


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

3srcattleco said:


> New holland BR 7070 is the best in my opinion. I custom bale and did about 8000 bales last season. My one break down (sucked up a hog panel) I called a fellow competitor. He runs a 568 Deere and he could not bale my windrows. Took two hours to roll up 13 bales. It plugged up so many times I decided I would never own a Deere. But those 13 bales were nice.


Just curious, what were y'all baling? 
Welcome


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Baling cattle panels. 
Bet that was a heck of a mess.


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## 3srcattleco (Apr 24, 2014)

Yes it was about 2500 dollar mess. We were baling fescue. Starting the first week of July we had 6 weeks of rain almost 30 in of rain and the blue stem and fescue made the most tons to the acre than ever heard of. That fescue had 200lbs of urea and made 5 ton to the acre.


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