# Rotary rake choice dilema



## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

I want to upgrade to a bigger (single rotor) rake, to speed up my raking. Right now I have a smaller rotary 9-ish ft and want to step up to a 13.5 or 13.9 ft. I make around 80 acres of mostly grass/alfalfa mix hay per year and it is a one man show. I also have a day job.

I am looking at new (AGCO (Massey/Hesston) and New Holland (ProRotor) and lightly used New Holland (ProRotor) and Kuhn (GA 4221), with the Kuhn being at the top end (actually a little beyond) of my budget. I know that the Kuhn is probably the best rake, out of all of my choices. But, are the others really that inferior?

The "new", AGCO or NH are substantially less money, than the lightly used Kuhn. And "new" is new and theoretically (depending on actual dealer support) a warranty (insert dealer horror story here). And of course, the lightly used rakes had absolutely the best of care, were always greased before and after each use and only ever raked a few acres on Sundays, by a little old lady, between the AM and PM services.

I'm really torn here, my gut says buy the best, that I can afford, the Kuhn. But my Dutch heritage says a brand new, name brand rake, for a couple of grand less makes the most sense financially. I also want to "pull the trigger" before the end of the year.

Oh, also, I have bar rake and have used wheel rakes and they do not compare. In this area, rotary's are the way to go, in my opinion.

Thanks,

Kurt


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## Snow Farmer (Aug 30, 2011)

The other brands are not inferior, not at all, but the Kuhn is one of the better machines out there. We have one, and are very satisfied indeed.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

I have some Dutch heritage as well, and it says to go with a new one. One with the closest dealer network. Now you'll know exactly what has been done to it all the way up to when you decide to part with it, if at all.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

The one thing about the Kuhn, that disappoints me is the right hand delivery!


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

I went with the Kuhn 3 years ago and never looked back. It's the undercarriage that sold me on it. Our older stands aren't the smoothest anymore, I didn't want to hash the transport right away. I looked at used ones, a bunch of different brands, to see what can be an issue, made my decision from there.
Folding the unit and storing the tines I didn't think would be a big feature, but when shed space is limited for the winter months, it is nice.
I think Kuhn, model dependant, can deliver either way.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

the one you really want is a Krone 46T


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

First welcome to HT,

Second, you won't go wrong in any of your choices,

so it comes down to dealer support (knowledge able parts/service managers), which for a rotary rake might not have much impact. As David mentions, the delivery side influenced my decision on no Kuhn (but if Farmer is correct, back to an even playing field). Bottom-line: I'm with Ox, let your heritage rule the day. 

Larry


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Kuh single rotor rakes:

The little guys, GA3xxx models deliver to the left!

The big guys, GA4xxx models, ALL deliver to the right!

HTH, Dave


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

I bought new two years ago (Claas) I got tired of looking at used rakes that where fetching way to much. My thinking is if I buy new I will probably never need to buy another rake again. My rakehas never sat out overnight since the day I bought it. Another thing is Claas offers 0% finance on hay equipment and was cheaper then the Kuhn. I try to buy quality equipment that if I need to sell one day will be worth something. Saving a little today may cost you a lot five or ten years from now.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

My first choice of rotary rakes would be either a Krone or Class. Kuhn would be my third pick and I'm currently running a double rotor Kuhn. The MF rakes are made by Fella which makes some very good equipment also and I wouldn't be afraid of one.....especially if the price difference is significantly less than Kuhn. The NH rakes are made by Kverneland/Vicon. Personally between the NH and MF I would definitely choose MF branded Fella.

Hayden


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Are you looking for clean sweep of 13'?? The rake your currently running you claim 9' and the Kuhn 4221 has a clean sweep of 9'2" with a working width of 13'5" . The Kuhn 4731 & 5031 Have a clean sweep of 11' and 12'.

NH clean sweep of 9.8'

All this being said Kuhn would be my first choice.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Farmerbrown2 said:


> I bought new two years ago (Claas) I got tired of looking at used rakes that where fetching way to much. My thinking is if I buy new I will probably never need to buy another rake again. My rakehas never sat out overnight since the day I bought it. Another thing is Claas offers 0% finance on hay equipment and was cheaper then the Kuhn. I try to buy quality equipment that if I need to sell one day will be worth something. Saving a little today may cost you a lot five or ten years from now.


X2
My Claas has been a good rake. 
Looking back at my rake purchase last year, I kind of wish I had gone with the Krone. The Krone folding rake tine feature is ingenious. No more getting grease on your shirt when you remove & store the tines.
My Claas dealer had a hydraulic fold for the guards for a special price and gave me excellent trade in on my NH rake, so that sealed it for me.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

KurtS said:


> I want to upgrade to a bigger (single rotor) rake, to speed up my raking. Right now I have a smaller rotary 9-ish ft and want to step up to a 13.5 or 13.9 ft. I make around 80 acres of mostly grass/alfalfa mix hay per year and it is a one man show. I also have a day job.
> 
> I am looking at new (AGCO (Massey/Hesston) and New Holland (ProRotor) and lightly used New Holland (ProRotor) and Kuhn (GA 4221), with the Kuhn being at the top end (actually a little beyond) of my budget. I know that the Kuhn is probably the best rake, out of all of my choices. But, are the others really that inferior?
> 
> ...


 We have the same size Kuhn rake you do and it is a bit small. Most of the time We go through 1st with v12 wheel rake and 8 to 24 hrs later go three with the Kuhn wheel rake and it really fluffs and drys.25 ft at 9mph with the wheel rake makes time


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## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

Thanks for all of the replies! So my current rake is similar to Kuhn GA 3xxx size, and a single axle and my fields are older and some are a little rougher, so I would like the tandem wheels and the extra reach of the next size up rake.

I am afraid that the bigger/biggest single rotors are a little too big, too much crop and gate/field entrance issues.

And the tandem rotors are just too big for some of my fields and too much to watch.

I know that Claas and Krone, make good equipment, however there are none of these in stock at any of the dealers around here. If I'm going to buy one, I want to see it and touch it before the money leaves my hand. So I have kind of ruled them out.

I hope to go to look at the used Kuhn soon and am still seriously considering the MF/Hesston/Fella.

What is so bad about RH side delivery?


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Biggest thing I see is you are traveling the opposite way of cutting. I don’t think it’s as much of a thing with Discbine’s but an sure it would be with a haybine. I have never in my life used a right hand delivery rake just seems odd .


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Some have posted in the past that the RH delivery doesn’t work as well for their raking patterns for small square baling. I think this is mainly when doing single rows and raking continuously round and round the field. We usually double up windrows and rake outside rows/headlands so no issue with it. We have a Kuhn 4221 and love it. The RH delivery is actually one of the selling points for me as I tend to watch back over my right shoulder, cab controls on RH side, etc. We bought ours new in 2014. Probably covers 2-250 acres/year. Knock on wood it’s never required anything but regular greasing.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Some have posted in the past that the RH delivery doesn't work as well for their raking patterns for small square baling. I think this is mainly when doing single rows and raking continuously round and round the field. We usually double up windrows and rake outside rows/headlands so no issue with it. We have a Kuhn 4221 and love it. The RH delivery is actually one of the selling points for me as I tend to watch back over my right shoulder, cab controls on RH side, etc. We bought ours new in 2014. Probably covers 2-250 acres/year. Knock on wood it's never required anything but regular greasing.


I agree on the rh delivery. Seems like the natural way to look. Have run kuhn double rotaries for 10 years and have been well satisfied.


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## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

I have moldboard plowed a lot, in the past and I also agree that looking to the right does seem more natural, for me. I use a disc mower exclusively and only make round bales. So, it does not appear that the RH delivery will be that big of a deal. Although I have raked to the left for 40 years!

One other thing that concerns me is, what happens when NH or MF/Hesston decide to change their rake supplier or start to make their own rake? I have a Niemeyer rake now, aka. Krone-Niemeyer (bought from an old man, that wanted to be a gentleman farmer, then decided that a gentleman should not have to work that hard. I think he used it a half a dozen times. Best of all, was cheap.) Although I have not needed any parts for it, the folks at Krone North America, told me that they would no longer carry parts for it. Again, I have not needed any parts for it, but that does stay in the back of my mind. Then again, companies fail and or get gobbled up by other companies every day and existing products are dropped or discontinued.

I need to go look at the rakes and make a choce1 Thanks again for the input!


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Since on plowing, cutting etc one has to look to the right, some thoughtful manufacturers make these rake discharge to the left so that the crick in your neck changes from one side to the other, just to balance the stiffness!


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

KurtS said:


> One other thing that concerns me is, what happens when NH or MF/Hesston decide to change their rake supplier or start to make their own rake?


AGCO owns Fella so it's pretty safe to say they're not going to be buying rotary rakes from anyone else anything soon. This is also true for the tedders and 3 point mowers. This is the first time AGCO didn't source their rakes from a third party.

That said, I think the wheel rakes are still H&S.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Trillium Farm said:


> Since on plowing, cutting etc one has to look to the right, some thoughtful manufacturers make these rake discharge to the left so that the crick in your neck changes from one side to the other, just to balance the stiffness!


My thinking is that in the earlier years of making hay, horse drawn sickle bar machines had the cutter bar on the right side.  So...&#8230;.. in order to rake the hay in the same direction that you cut it the hay rakes became a left side delivery to match. I'm not old enough to remember cutting with a horse drawn sickle bar machine (do remember cutting with a trailer type & a three point 7' sickle bar machine and a steel wheeled left hand delivery rake -_-).

Now that I ted everything which side delivery probably isn't as important any more. However, with my double rotary I get to look over both shoulders. Seems when I rake two single windrows I'm looking over my right shoulder and when raking a double over my left shoulder. I suppose the folks with the double center delivery get to choose which every shoulder is convenient, lucky dogs. 

Larry


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## lfc (Jun 23, 2010)

I have two Kuhn 4220's and have had excellent use from them. My biggest complaint is the cantilevered curtain support has cracked the perimeter guard from the constant bouncing of the curtain on the older rake. I need to make a support from the perimeter guard that also holds the front of the curtain. Other than that, no issues at all.

That being said, I am not a fan of the RH delivery. Due to the odd shape of many of my fields I bale in circles, and with the RH rake and a NH square baler you have to jump a windrow each time around when baling. I use a NH stackwagon to gather the bales, and often a bale will drop right as you are jumping windrows. Next time around then you have to move the bale if the stackwagon hasn't caught up to you and picked it up. Not a big deal, but it can be a pain none the less. I want to get a double rotary soon, and will likely consider Kubota/NH or Claas as they are LH delivery.


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## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

One of my first hay experiences (tractor work), was running a crimper in heavy hay, after my dad mowed it with a sickle bar mower. After that first time, I always carried a jackknife. What a miserable piece of equipment! It was a great day when my dad finally bought a haybine!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

KurtS said:


> One of my first hay experiences (tractor work), was running a crimper in heavy hay, after my dad mowed it with a sickle bar mower. After that first time, I always carried a jackknife. What a miserable piece of equipment! It was a great day when my dad finally bought a haybine!


BTDT, seems that quite often wouldn't be wearing a shirt, man were those alfalfa stems sharp.  What a PITA that job was. You were luckier than I it seems, I bought the first haybine. Maybe I should have let my Dad do a little carving, once in a while ?

Larry


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## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

I was finnally able to look at one of the rakes today, the used Kuhn. It was in very good condition, the owner has taken very good care of it and was extremely knowledgeable about the rake. I was impressed! I did not pull the trigger yet (I probably should have) because I wanted to take a look at the, brand new, Massey/Hesston/Fella rake. I hope to look at that one next Saturday. I'll post more then!


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## KurtS (Dec 26, 2019)

Just to close the loop. I ended up buying the used Kuhn. Due to nasty weekend weather and the need to have a job, so I can afford to keep the dogs in food and milk bones, I never made it to look at any of the other rakes. After thinking about it and watching the ice cling to the trees or the snow to pile up, I thought about the thrill of driving on nasty roads, for hours, with a bunch of people driving either to fast or way too slow, I decided to buy the Kuhn. It was really everything that I wanted and needed and best of all, only 40 minutes away on rain soaked roads, today.

Now it is safely in my barn and I can focus on my next project(s).

Thanks to all, for all of your input!


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

My first experience with a rotary rake....vs a tedder, was via Utube videos on rakes being used in Europe....by pretty farm girls/housewives no less.........These were high volume operations so you might have a look and see something that will help you to make your decision on which is setup best for your operation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

KurtS said:


> Just to close the loop. I ended up buying the used Kuhn. Due to nasty weekend weather and the need to have a job, so I can afford to keep the dogs in food and milk bones, I never made it to look at any of the other rakes. After thinking about it and watching the ice cling to the trees or the snow to pile up, I thought about the thrill of driving on nasty roads, for hours, with a bunch of people driving either to fast or way too slow, I decided to buy the Kuhn. It was really everything that I wanted and needed and best of all, only 40 minutes away on rain soaked roads, today.
> 
> Now it is safely in my barn and I can focus on my next project(s).
> 
> Thanks to all, for all of your input!


You made a great choice. Overall, Kuhn is one of the top producers of hay tools and agricultural machinery.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

KurtS said:


> Just to close the loop. I ended up buying the used Kuhn. Due to nasty weekend weather and the need to have a job, so I can afford to keep the dogs in food and milk bones, I never made it to look at any of the other rakes. After thinking about it and watching the ice cling to the trees or the snow to pile up, I thought about the thrill of driving on nasty roads, for hours, with a bunch of people driving either to fast or way too slow, I decided to buy the Kuhn. It was really everything that I wanted and needed and best of all, only 40 minutes away on rain soaked roads, today.
> 
> Now it is safely in my barn and I can focus on my next project(s).
> 
> Thanks to all, for all of your input!


You won't regret it and should you need help it's only 40 min away. You can cut your teeth on this and if not suitable you can always sell/trade it on a different one.


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## KurtS1 (Jun 8, 2020)

I just wanted to say how happy that I am with the Kuhn 4221 rake that I got. So far, it has done everything that I had hoped and a little more. It has cut my raking time, which was my main goal, not just because it is bigger than my old rake. But the ability to lift it to go over windrows, saves a ton of time in the second and third cuttings. I even prefer the right hand delivery, because that is the way I am used to looking for most everything anyway.

I'm sure the other brands would have been fine as well. But this was close and I am glad that I made the investment.

Thanks,

Kurt


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