# How to get customers to pay



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm having trouble getting guys to pay for the repairs I do on their machines. One customer owes about $8,000, one owes about $3,000 and then some odds and ends. I go to their place to ask for some cash but apparently I am too nice, as I leave empty handed. It's a double edged sword as I sell seed to these people as well. One cancelled his order for corn when I gave him the bill for his combine work. I'm at a loss in more ways than one. I've started making guys buy their own parts so I don't have that to contend with too, and that has worked well. I can't do this for free like I used to. I used to fix things for free as I thought people would return the favor in time, that never happened once. I've got bills to pay too. Year end is coming quickly.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

You have users not customers!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

stack em up said:


> I'm having trouble getting guys to pay for the repairs I do on their machines. One customer owes about $8,000, one owes about $3,000 and then some odds and ends. I go to their place to ask for some cash but apparently I am too nice, as I leave empty handed. It's a double edged sword as I sell seed to these people as well. One cancelled his order for corn when I gave him the bill for his combine work. I'm at a loss in more ways than one. I've started making guys buy their own parts so I don't have that to contend with too, and that has worked well. I can't do this for free like I used to. I used to fix things for free as I thought people would return the favor in time, that never happened once. I've got bills to pay too. Year end is coming quickly.


I'm afraid it's going to be this way for awhile with $3 corn.

Yea its BS that they cancell business with you just because you need to get pd.Not saying much for their integrity.And I would put them on a shit list from now on,cash only or don't do bussiness with them at all.

You do have the option of mechanics lien,but it has to be filed in a certain amount of time.

You may have to put up a sign.Cash only,pay before it leaves!


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I am kind of in the same boat with the custom. This year with the low milk price have more accts. receivable. They are good customers so I deal with it. It's coming in slowly, however, for the ones that go out over 1 year. If they pay and want more work done it has to be paid for in advance before any work is done. Have not had to do that yet. One guy went 4 years before paying off his acct. I did have one customer that has been working on his bill for 3 years and wanted to just buy some hay this year. Told him he had to bring his acct current and have is hay fully paid for before coming to pick up. Seems to be working still receiving money for the hay. I'm like you stack, just to nice but have bills to pay. Having them pay for the parts is a good idea, then your out only time and labor till you are paid


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Mechanics lien isn't an option apparently, not enough $ value. The issue with this is most of these guys are well enough off to buy new this or that, but can't pay for repairs. My wife thinks the best option is to give up on mechanicing (I'm okay with that) but that doesn't help make the payments on the shop.

I knew there was a reason I hated being a mechanic so deeply...,


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

In the last 15 months we gave up a lot of custom work here and the guy that took our work said right now he has 42k in the books. My guys always paid slow as heck but they always paid. Our accountant says you shouldn't let that much money get out because he is afraid the bank is going to shut some of these guys down and he said that is when you lose. With us not doing any custom planting this year we still have 3 for guys paying on hay and straw bills.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I believe there is 'good business' and business, took me several years in the school of hard knocks that it seems I still haven't graduated from. 

There was a time worked for a local elevator, they had a custom horse feed, that I sold for them. I got them into horserace track, but I would only do the 'good business' (paid now or within a week, no exceptions). There where some that I would not even give them a week (cash only and no checks even). Everything worked well, then I left the elevator job and the owner of the elevator got greedy, going after 'all' business at the race track Well you can guess what happened, when track closed, elevator owner had over six figures of accounts payable, that he ate. Worse part was I told him not to take on most of these so called 'customers', that they were not 'good' business. But he was older and thought he was wiser. He was very good reading dairy farmers and allowing them credit. I tried to tell him horse owners/breeders associated with horseracing where a much different breed. They were all going to be millionaires, with the next horse that is.

Stack, take it as a lesson learned (costly at that), continue to look for the good business and you might find some of your customers come back (even begging).

Seems W.C. Fields had a saying "a fool and his money soon part company", I don't think you were a fool, most likely just to damn honest and giving. Too bad you have been taken advantage of by other, my heart goes out to you.

My hope is we both get to graduate from the good old school of hard knocks, SOON!

Larry


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

I am deeeply divided on this one part of me the royal prick in me says take'm to court even small claims court the other side says I am may not being earning riches here on earth but by my good, kind deeds I will be reward in the here after. The good things we do here may not be seen recognized or appreciated by those for whom we do them but God sees and remembers....


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Option 1: Mechanics lien.

Option 2: Small claims court (Take the big bills and split them into smaller parts and sue for each one at separate times---gets you past the small claims court limit if you execute it appropriatelt.)

Option 3: Write up a 8x10 sheet that reads "John Doe owes me $______. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx if you see him." Include a photocopy of your invoice. Hangs this on all bulletin boards, post-it areas, business card post, etc. all around your area. Bet you get a call within 24 hrs!

Option 4: S&W 357 (Ooops, I didn't say that one!)

Ralph

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Paul, I would suggest that you give your clients a parts list(like you are doing) and then a repair estimate(towards the high side) and tell them that they have to pay 50% of the cost up front and the balance(adjusted) when they pick the tractor up. And that the tractor cannot be picked up until the balance is paid in full. Have them sign it.

Regards, Mike


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Most of the time their is two bad paymasters one who pays be for the work is done and then the one who never pays at all.

If it were me I would write them a letter asking them to pay by a set date and send it registered mail so they have to sign for it and if no effort is made to pay break it down into smaller bills and take them to small claims court.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

"In God we Trust, all others pay cash"....

1. Buddy with a shop got signed up with a financing company..."oh, you dont have the money to pay the bill, call this number and they will get you financed..."

2. Make it clear equipment/tractor doesn't leave until paid for. A lot of GOOD people have to choice who they pay..if they know you will wait, they will pay you last..

3. You can get signed up to accept credit cards via smart phone....

The longer you wait on that 8k, the less likely you will see it. I would get hard nosed fast. Make a payment schedule, have them agree to it, then stick to it.

oh, by the way. I got some equipment I need repaired. Can I send it over?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Send them a letter in November saying that if they don't pay by the end of the year that you will send them a 1099 for their income taxes since you didn't get paid I guess that should be income for them. I learned this from a guy that used to be an accountant for a private school. He said it worked great as people didn't want the income to be reported.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Teslan said:


> Send them a letter in November saying that if they don't pay by the end of the year that you will send them a 1099 for their income taxes since you didn't get paid I guess that should be income for them. I learned this from a guy that used to be an accountant for a private school. He said it worked great as people didn't want the income to be reported.


Sounds like a great plan.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

I usually hold my hand out...


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Vol said:


> Paul, I would suggest that you give your clients a parts list(like you are doing) and then a repair estimate(towards the high side) and tell them that they have to pay 50% of the cost up front and the balance(adjusted) when they pick the tractor up. And that the tractor cannot be picked up until the balance is paid in full. Have them sign it.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I agree with Vol local weld guy that retired told me if he didn't know or trust a customer he didn't let it leave his property he also said he would go hungry before he went out on the road to do work he wasn't going to get paid for.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Your past has caught up with you Paul, maybe at one time you could afford to "help a brother out" but with Branten here, those days are well in the past.....you have to go to these people and be firm and kind and hold your hand out.....don't want to burn bridges, just get paid. . Good luck


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Way back in my misspent youth when I was a young military policeman just married I was stationed in Alaska, was expecting our second child and had to move to a bigger apartment we lived off post. Gave the landlord 30 days written notice and she said no problem she understood told us what she wanted cleaned so we could get all of our security deposit back did everything she said and got a check in the mail for fifty dollars out of a five hundred security deposit, called her up and asked what was wrong why didn't we get our full deposit back, her reply if you don't like it take me to court. Well the brash hot headed young military policeman I was I went to the landlords house late one evening several months later and threw a cinder block through the windshield of her big ole Cadillac, threw another one through the rear window and proceeded break her headlights, taillights, and side mirrors. Next morning I got a call from one very angry landlord, when she accused me of damaging her car I told her I had 35 witness all Military Policeman that would testify that I was in the NCO club all night drinking and that I had been to drunk to drive home so had spent the night in the barracks. Then I said if you don't like it take me to court... never heard from her again. The price of replacement parts were outrageously high in Alaska in the early nineteen eighties. I know it cost her way more then four hundred and fifty dollars to repair her car.

Now I don't recommend doing something like that now a days, but it felt damn good back then


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Send them a letter in November saying that if they don't pay by the end of the year that you will send them a 1099 for their income taxes since you didn't get paid I guess that should be income for them. I learned this from a guy that used to be an accountant for a private school. He said it worked great as people didn't want the income to be reported.


Might fall under earned income or some weird thing, wouldn't you need their social though for it to be a valid 1099?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Can't remember where I seen it in the tax forms, but you can write that unpaid debt off against your income, however in doing so you might forfeit actually trying to collect on it.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Not a cure-all but a big step forward for us, was adding software to the computer that would give me a customer database and allow us to keep track of Interest. That way we can very easily rebill them each month and they will be able to see how their interest is adding up. I know a lot of farmers don't do this and that really helps I think. The times of the year when I know I should have money I'll hand deliver some of those past due invoices and I will ask nicely if I could take some money along and I am surprised quite how often I get a check. My son always complains you shouldn't have to run after the damn money. As other others said do nothing get nothing


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

We had a local truck garage that would do a 20k overhaul, let the trucker pay it month to month, and not charge interest. They finally started adding interest to the statement and they said it made a big differance in getting payments...


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## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

20-20 Hindsight.

*Rule #1* Always charge for what you are worth.

*Rule #2* Always collect for what you are worth.

*Rule #3* You can never ever afford customers who do not pay their bills.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Might fall under earned income or some weird thing, wouldn't you need their social though for it to be a valid 1099?


Yes you would, but maybe the threat would be enough to get someone to pay.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

endrow said:


> Not a cure-all but a big step forward for us, was adding software to the computer that would give me a customer database and allow us to keep track of Interest. That way we can very easily rebill them each month and they will be able to see how their interest is adding up. I know a lot of farmers don't do this and that really helps I think. The times of the year when I know I should have money I'll hand deliver some of those past due invoices and I will ask nicely if I could take some money along and I am surprised quite how often I get a check. My son always complains you shouldn't have to run after the damn money. As other others said do nothing get nothing


Quick Books?I need to do something.I hate doing books,thought of getting a part time secretary come in and do all the books once a month.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Quick Books?I need to do something.I hate doing books,thought of getting a part time secretary come in and do all the books once a month.


The problem I found with Quickbooks or Quicken is you actually have to remember to use it.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> The problem I found with Quickbooks or Quicken is you actually have to remember to use it.


I hated it from the get go, most of those programs as well you need to use at least weekly, sitting down just once a month to catch book work up can be frustrating at best if you need the help section to make it work. I like my paper spreadsheets I put into Excel.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I hated it from the get go, most of those programs as well you need to use at least weekly, sitting down just once a month to catch book up can be frustrating at best if you need the help section to make it work. I like my paper spreadsheets I put into Excel.


ive begun to use google sheets. I like it because I can enter stuff on my iPhone immediately. Then access it later from the computer if need be. I suppose you can do that with excel now also.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Stack are you rebilling them each month and adding interest that helps. I sometimes deliver the past due statements in person.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Adding 1.5% interest per month after 60 days. Stopped by to drop a statement on a big bill and was told if he pays it all the bank is shutting him down. Not gonna have that on my head. I have decided to quit mechanicking altogether. I got enough crap to do besides chase money.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

stack em up said:


> Adding 1.5% interest per month after 60 days. Stopped by to drop a statement on a big bill and was told if he pays it all the bank is shutting him down. Not gonna have that on my head. I have decided to quit mechanicking altogether. I got enough crap to do besides chase money.


100 to 1 odds he's lying to you! And if the bank were to shut him down, that ain't on you! It's on him---because that means he has screwed a whole bunch of other people.

So, quit thinking like that.

And unfortunately part of our job nowadays, thanks to our highly ethical political leaders and gutless clergy, is that we have to chase the money.

Ralph

"I'm mad as hell and I ain't taking it anymore!"


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

stack em up said:


> Adding 1.5% interest per month after 60 days. Stopped by to drop a statement on a big bill and was told if he pays it all the bank is shutting him down. Not gonna have that on my head. I have decided to quit mechanicking altogether. I got enough crap to do besides chase money.


He/she doesnt seem to mind that their LACK of paying is shutting you down. They must not be God-fearing folk, or they would recognize their actions as theft. Dont seem much like they are adapted to ethical business or common society's accepted conduct. 
I believe I would look them right in the face and tell them exactly that!! My bible tells me I should confront their activities which are immoral. 
If that didnt work, I would "balance the books"
Skip a rope, Mark


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm not concerned about the "shutting me down" part. I hate being a mechanic, but since I had the tools and the shop, I used it as a means to help make the payments. If you can hold a wrench, you can be a mechanic. I just want to be able to get the money back I have invested in parts. My time is cheap, so I can scratch that out and be okay with it, but need to be able to get my parts money back and what I paid my machinist buddy to pin and plane the head and grind the crank.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Not everyone is/can be a mechanic. You probably think that because it comes naturally to you...

Your time isnt cheap. You have plenty of other things to do, including more time with the family..

Maybe just pick who you do work for. Telling someone "no" is OK

You know I am from Lancaster County, home to the Amish Mafia. Maybe I need to round them up and head out your way. They can show you MN boys how money is collected back East...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I love watching Amish Mafia. Lebanon Levi is a hoot, although he could do better than than Esther chick he was chasing. Saw it on Netflix so maybe he is t around anymore either.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I think the show got cancelled...people were a little up in arms about it around here...

Levi was actually doing public appearance promos. He was at a Library to raise money...he actually had "groupies" that would follow him around...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I sold my tools and box from work a few months ago, but still have the same setup in the shop at the farm. I think I'm gonna sell the more specialized stuff so I don't get the notion to start this shit again. Anyone wanna buy a few thousand dollars worth of Snap On, Mac and Wright tools?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

stack em up said:


> I sold my tools and box from work a few months ago, but still have the same setup in the shop at the farm. I think I'm gonna sell the more specialized stuff so I don't get the notion to start this shit again. Anyone wanna buy a few thousand dollars worth of Snap On, Mac and Wright tools?


Just hold on to them for a little. You never know where life will take you...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

PaMike said:


> Just hold on to them for a little. You never know where life will take you...


That's the whole thing. I don't want turning wrenches to be an option down the road. It's not a job you do as you grow old, it's a job you grow old doing.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

A good set of tools for your own personal use is priceless. Some of us have spent many years accumulating a collection for the farm shop. I think it would be hard to get the money out of them that you paid for them and one day on a project of your own your going to wish you had that one tool you had and got rid of. It wont seem all that long and you will be fixing a bike for the little guy then a gocart and ect.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

stack em up said:


> I sold my tools and box from work a few months ago, but still have the same setup in the shop at the farm. I think I'm gonna sell the more specialized stuff so I don't get the notion to start this shit again. Anyone wanna buy a few thousand dollars worth of Snap On, Mac and Wright tools?


Quality tools always hold their value......if you have duplicates I would sell them too if I weren't turning wrenches much anymore, I wouldn't give them away however.....(less you wantin to give them to a poor ole *******..... )


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I hear you Stack...my point is if you have the tools and you gotta turn some wrenches to make ends meet you can...you never know when something will happened that will change your situation....high interest rates....wife looses job....etc. Always good to have options to produce income even if only in the short term.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah, sounds like how things went around here in the mid-late 90's...

I guess I'm getting to be an old fart (45 now) because I'm starting to say more and more "ya know back in my day......" Well, I remember when EVERYBODY around here offered "local credit". Heck even the grocery store my Grandmother shopped at, they had a rack of 'pigeonholes' on one wall behind the head checker's register where you could buy groceries on credit... each book had a little carbon paper in it and they were all alphabetized, with your last name, first name written on the spine of the book... she'd ring up your groceries, pull your book, write the total on the second line, bring the running total forward from the previous page, add it up, double-check her math, then you'd sign it, she'd tear out the yellow copy and stick it in your shopping bag, and out the door you'd go. Grandma used to have me run in a check for a couple hundred bucks once a month and she'd deduct it off the total (which usually brought it down to less than $10 bucks) and she'd hand me the adjusted receipt... simple as pie.

Course, that was back when people had PRIDE and some gumption about them and weren't the scumbags they are today (for the most part). It was simply unacceptable for a person NOT to pay their bills back then... and if they didn't, their reputation was SHOT and NOBODY would do business with them, not outside, "cash n carry or get lost" anyway...

ALL the local seed/chemical/fertilizer dealers used to have "in-store credit" as well as all the farm equipment dealerships. Then in the 90's that all started to change in pretty short order. I know my seed guy got stuck with a LOT of outstanding bills when guys went bust. Lots of stuff at the auctions with "FSA" printed on it in crayon from guys going bust. One guy DID have the decency to come drop off an 8820 Titan II Deere combine and a couple heads and an older Deere mounted planter and some stuff when he went broke, to at least pay down his outstanding bill... His other stuff was financed or collateral for FSA loans and they took it to auction. That was when my seed/chem/fertilizer guy quit doing "in-store credit"-- he said it had gotten SO bad that it was putting him at risk, and he was an EXCELLENT manager that had his own cotton gin (well, his Dad's gin he inherited, his own fertilizer plants, his own trucking company, and the seed/chemical dealership as well). Just couldn't accept the risk exposure anymore. Too many guys getting in too deep and simply walking away...

I know there was another place just over the county line that I'd sometimes buy cotton defoliant from and then deliver it just down the road to the air service that would then come spray it on the cotton... they were a small but pretty decent seed/chem/fert dealer, and suddenly they closed up shop... I found out later when I met the guy one day when he reopened and was reorganizing (basically starting over from scratch) that a big local farmer had been buying most of his stuff there "on credit" and walked away owing over $40,000 to him... He was TRYING to work with the guy, but he was just ducking him and telling him sob stories... One day he went over to his place to try to talk to him "in person"... He told me how he drove up behind his fine brick home after winding through the big fancy horse pastures out front, parked behind his brand spanking new $40,000 diesel dually pickup, walked up to the house and knocked on the back door... his wife answered the door and told him he wasn't there-- he was out west on a $10,000 a gun fancy hunting lease trip... He was livid and said, "Your husband owes me $40,000 and put my business under when he walked away from his debts, but he has money for a brand new pickup and a $10,000 a gun hunting lease??? Tell him I'll see him in court!" He stalked back to his pickup and drove out, past the three brand new $300,000 cotton pickers he'd bought when he quit farming and started a "custom cotton picking" business, and drove home. The following week, the guy drove up and handed him a check for the full amount he owed, but cussed him out every name in the book for "confronting his wife" and all this crap...

Now, all our local dealers, be it seed/chem/fertilizer or tractor dealers, are either "cash-n-carry" or various "New Holland Credit", "Deere Credit", or "Farm Plan" (which I REFUSE to do business with Farm Plan due to crap I put up with from them in the late 90's when the local Deere dealer went to "Farm Plan"... biggest crooks in the country from my experience!) No more "in house credit" of any type or kind... After the Farm Plan debacle, we got "NH credit" when the Shiner NH dealer FINALLY quit doing in house credit... (they were about the last to quit). I just about QUIT dealing with the "local" NH dealer because they didn't want to do NH credit-- they wanted us to do "Farm Plan" and I'd already been through all that with the Deere dealer doing Farm Plan when we were still row cropping and buying a lot of stuff from Deere for the cotton pickers... Once we quit row cropping 95% of our purchases were from NH... I figured if they didn't want to do NH Credit at the local dealer, screw them, I'd just buy all my stuff in Shiner... I was shocked and amazed last week when I was baling a little late hay and had a baler belt lacing rip out and took it over there to get it relaced, not realizing I left my wallet at home, that they billed it to my folks (presumably through NH credit). Guess they finally decided to get with the program...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

I *USED* to sell a little hay on the side (we mostly bale to feed our own cattle herd) and learned the hard way the difference between "GOOD business" and "business". There's a local black guy who's "touched" and cross-eyed and had a hard time in life-- his mother died when she was VERY elderly and he never left home-- he inherited her house and a few acres and had a few cattle out there and sold a few calves a year... (like single-digits). Anyway, I knew he had a hard time in life, everybody in the community tried to help him out as they could... (he was a terrible driver and wrecked a lot of vehicles, so they'd come up with some old beater or other he could afford cheap so he'd have a way to get around-- until he inevitably wrecked it too). I was selling him round bales as he needed them, and delivered them with the pickup... he'd call me about every week or so to bring him a round bale, on credit.

Well, when we started, about once a month he'd come out when I delivered it and paid me for the 3-4 bales I'd brought him that month... then it became about every other month... then it became "when winter was over"... Then there was paying me PART of what he owed me, and then it was this or that excuse why he COULDN'T pay me right now, or why he STILL couldn't pay a couple months later...

Well, I was understanding and sympathetic, but hey, I'm in business too... This isn't the "hay welfare" department for underprivileged cows! After deferring a few times but still stopping by from time to time, I FINALLY got the money he owed me...

BUT, the following fall when he came by asking about hay, I told him straight up, "Sure, I'll sell you some hay and bring it out, but it's gonna have to be "cash-n-carry" from now on-- I can't afford to deliver anything until I have the cash in hand and its paid for..."

He bought a few bales here and there but it wasn't long before I didn't hear from him anymore... Oh well...

I used to do some custom baling for neighbors as well... I was cutting the neighbor's place one day when this fancy little rice-rocket jacked up 4wd pickup with all the bells-n-whistles pulls out into the field, and this teenage sandy-furriner jumps out and saunters up to the tractor, asking me about coming to bale their place across the road next... I was like, "Well, lemme see when I get this done" and left it at that. The neighbor I was working for came out to the field to watch a bit and tells me "I don't want to tell you your business, but you might want to reconsider working for him... he's stiffed the last three guys I've had in here baling for me... same story every time-- they see someone cutting and baling my place, they come over and rope them in to coming over to bale their place, and once the hay is baled, they lock the 10 foot storm fence and gate they put up around their place and good luck ever getting your money out of them-- last three guys got stiffed and then they wouldn't even come bale for ME anymore, and I had *nothing* to do with it!"

SO, a day or two later I'm out baling, and sure enough this teenager "junior" is sent over by the old man and starts telling me I GOTTA come bale their hay when I'm done here... Well, that don't sit well with me; *nobody* tells me what I "GOTTA" do, period... By this time I'd asked around and yeah, they're a bunch of sorry filthy stinking MUSLIMS that bought that place, and their reputation is lower than alligator p!ss... In the bankrupt worthless Muslim culture, if they can get a gullible fool stupid enough to do work for them or sell them something on credit to give them what they want, and if they can GET AWAY with not paying for it, well, "Allah" WANTED them to have it, and its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE to be a low-life scumbag CROOK, even laudable that they managed to "outwit" somebody else and get "something for nothing". (I've seen that before several times from various Muslim scum around the area). Anyway, TRYING to be "friendly" I just tell the kid, "I don't think I'll have to time to cut your hay-- better find someone else. I have to get ready to pick cotton next week" and beg off the job; after all there's a LOT of locals doing custom work-- BUT they've already "burned their bridges" and NOBODY will work for them anymore...

SO, the following week, the kid AND the old man show up in my yard "demanding" that I come bale THEIR hay... that's when I lost it and told them I don't HAVE to do ANYTHING, that I've heard they don't pay their bills and I wouldn't bale for them if they were the last guys in the friggin' country, because I don't deal with CROOKS, so they can get the h3ll off my property RIGHT NOW. That was the last I ever saw of them.

Thankfully they eventually went broke and moved, because they'd ripped off SO MANY people that NOBODY in the town or countryside would do business with them ANY MORE at ANY PRICE, so they didn't have much choice but to go elsewhere and start robbing others. Glad to see their filthy stinking Muslim scum hides gone...

I learned there and then that the only thing worse than NO business is BAD business... If you can't get your money for what you do, better to just sit in the house and not do ANYTHING than being ripped off by low-lifes...

Later! OL J R


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

You really hate wrenching Stack? Or just burnt about your no-pays and slow-pays?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

paoutdoorsman said:


> You really hate wrenching Stack? Or just burnt about your no-pays and slow-pays?


Hate wrenching. The no pays only makes it worse.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

stack em up said:


> Hate wrenching. The no pays only makes it worse.


I fully understand your feelings....I have been that way for the last 15 years. If it's more than a 20 minute job I just pay someone else to do it. I used to do most all of my monkeying....not anymore.

Regards, Mike


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Might fall under earned income or some weird thing, wouldn't you need their social though for it to be a valid 1099?


Short answer is yes or an EIN (think of as a business' SS number), so the IRS can figure out who 'got' the income (known as debt forgiveness or phantom income) from the deduction you took.

Larry


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

Stack, if you're serious about getting rid of your tools, I can pm you my address. Just ship them, then I will send you payment....

Is check ok? ... you might have to hold it before cashing, just a week ... or maybe 3.

It's ok though because I go to church.

I will have the money as soon as I get paycheck.

Just switched jobs though, and new employer has to hold my first paycheck until I have worked for them for two months.

It is alright though, because my family has some land that we are going to sell so I will have your money. (Don't worry that the land belongs to my siblings and I have no legitimate claim... I deserve a share if I convince them to sell.)

Oh, could you send them to my new address? I had to move because my landlord screwed me. Turns out he wanted a tenant that stays current with rent. Don't know what he got so pushed out of shape for, I had the rent money, but I had to pay for my cable TV, unlimited data, and new cell phones for my wife,kids,and myself. (Our old phones were last year's model, plus I had to change carrier because my old one "quit" working for some strange reason).

Don't worry about the fancy new vehicle we are driving, our old one broke down and I can't pay the $350 to fix it. It is actually good though, cause I can sell the old one and get your money (if creditors don't find it, it's parked behind the back shed so it cannot be seen.)

Besides we did not buy the new car we are just making payments.

Same with the new fridge, washer, dryer, air conditioner, and 50" HDTV. Didn't buy them got them at rent to own.

Also got a new wood furnace so we can save on heating costs (never mind that I don't cut wood I can buy it, because bought wood heat will be way cheaper than another efficient heat).

Plus we will just run some portable electric heaters to keep the gas furnace from kicking on. We can also turn turn on the gas oven and leave the door open, that will keep the furnace from running.

We never use the oven to cook anyway, because we always pick up fast food.

Oh sorry you will have to hold that check a little longer because our electric bill is ridiculously high this month (electric company charges way to much).

We will switch to a portable kerosene heater and save on electric. We can afford those gallon cans of kerosene at the farm supply store.

And PLEASE... Quit calling me and asking for your money. Because my wife is responsible for paying for tools. I pay rent and car payments, she pays for the other stuff like tools.

Thanks a lot. I will let you know what tools are damaged, missing, worn out, dirty or ... when I get them.

Hey, what's the deal. I missed out on a job because you have not sent my tools yet. I forgive you... just send me $773 cash with the tools to make up for it.

Thanks again.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JMT, did you "buy" hay from me once before......seems I've done business with you somewhere down the line


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Lol JMT. I think we've all heard that very same series of responses.
JR, I remember every business extending credit as well. Still a few general stores. Once in a while I'd get to go to town with Dad. Bank, feed mill,general store. I miss those days 90 degrees turn the vent window in or just ride in the back of the old Dodge. The smell of sacked feed,farm chemicals, and 150 year old wood elevator. Then after loading up and paying on the account down to the lunch counter at the store. Tore up screen door on the front grab an ice cold root beer out of the pickle barrel. Sit at the counter proud as hell of my Pop and thinking how lucky I was to get up to town instead of weeding the garden.( My sister's job but I always wound up doing it.) Really wasn't so long ago. I'll be 40come spring. Wish my boys could've experienced it to.
Anyway thanks for bringing up very pleasant memories.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

stack em up said:


> Hate wrenching. The no pays only makes it worse.


I hear yah, if I could afford it I'd a full time mechanic, once everything fixed then he can repaint everything, once thats done then he can start in on a row of antiques that need restored.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Well, turns out I'm SOL on collecting. Talked with my cousin who is a financial lawyer in the cities. Said unless I had a written work agreement, I would not be able to collect in claims court. And he said bank always gets their money first, before any other debtors. Son of a bitch....

I asked him if I was wrong to assume people would pay for services rendered, his reply was a simple "yep"


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

stack em up said:


> Well, turns out I'm SOL on collecting. Talked with my cousin who is a financial lawyer in the cities. Said unless I had a written work agreement, I would not be able to collect in claims court. And he said bank always gets their money first, before any other debtors. Son of a bitch....
> I asked him if I was wrong to assume people would pay for services rendered, his reply was a simple "yep"


Small claims win doesn't mean they will pay anyway. I won (years ago now). Really I lost cause I had to pay for court. Never seen a dime.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

stack em up said:


> Well, turns out I'm SOL on collecting. Talked with my cousin who is a financial lawyer in the cities. Said unless I had a written work agreement, I would not be able to collect in claims court. And he said bank always gets their money first, before any other debtors. Son of a bitch....
> 
> I asked him if I was wrong to assume people would pay for services rendered, his reply was a simple "ye


So the guy wont give you anything? Not $50/month? Nothing? Maybe you should visit him and ask him to sign a work order if he cant pay you. If the guy has any sort of decency you would think he would do something for you...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Would love $50 month. Nope, nada, zippo, zilch.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

stack em up said:


> Would love $50 month. Nope, nada, zippo, zilch.


Did you face to face push the guy? I would start stopping by on a regular basis...maybe he has some old equipment you can take on trade...some cull cattle...some hay..something..

I would be on the guy for anything...guns, old antiques...guys like probably have had guys give up on collecting money...I would let him know your not the type that gives up...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Sadly, I am. I don't have any fight left in me anymore. Just goes to show you, never expect anything fro anyone. And this is why I'm so cynical anymore.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

stack em up said:


> Sadly, I am. I don't have any fight left in me anymore. Just goes to show you, never expect anything fro anyone. And this is why I'm so cynical anymore.


Sadly I would probably just resort to going over and taking it out of his ass.....and then I would get three squares for a day, that's a small price to pay....
Depending on the amount, it might be a good way to be rid of ever hang to "deal" with this sorry sob again.....


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Just turn it over to a debt collection agency. You wont get any money but they will call him, his family, his inlaws family etc for the next 5 years...


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

stack em up said:


> Sadly, I am. I don't have any fight left in me anymore. Just goes to show you, never expect anything fro anyone. And this is why I'm so cynical anymore.


A person can get that way if you try and live a life of doing the right thing. Only thing I can say Paul with certainty is that it will be credited to you one day as righteousness so don't get discouraged...just move onto other things like you have been doing.

Regards, Mike


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Vol said:


> A person can get that way if you try and live a life of doing the right thing. Only thing I can say Paul with certainty is that it will be credited to you one day as righteousness so don't get discouraged...just move onto other things like you have been doing.
> 
> Regards, Mike


It can get discouraging at times, that's for sure..


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It's all part of life's little lessons in dealing with people of no character.....


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

Not as much money as you but I had a guy owe me $4500 on some hay and wouldn't pay or answer his phone for about 5 months. Finnaly got ahold of him at his work place on a Friday afternoon and let him know the Sherrifs office would be at his house Monday morning for theft of services and I was paid in full that Sunday after he got out of church. That bluff paid, who knows if it'll ever work again.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

It's just sad that a man's word is not his bond anymore.
It's a hole different world today than it was 20 years ago.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

hillside hay said:


> Lol JMT. I think we've all heard that very same series of responses.
> JR, I remember every business extending credit as well. Still a few general stores. Once in a while I'd get to go to town with Dad. Bank, feed mill,general store. I miss those days 90 degrees turn the vent window in or just ride in the back of the old Dodge. The smell of sacked feed,farm chemicals, and 150 year old wood elevator. Then after loading up and paying on the account down to the lunch counter at the store. Tore up screen door on the front grab an ice cold root beer out of the pickle barrel. Sit at the counter proud as hell of my Pop and thinking how lucky I was to get up to town instead of weeding the garden.( My sister's job but I always wound up doing it.) Really wasn't so long ago. I'll be 40come spring. Wish my boys could've experienced it to.
> Anyway thanks for bringing up very pleasant memories.


Yep, I'm 45, so a little ahead of ya... but that's about how it was growing up. Not like now.

We have a lot more "conveniences" and fun stuff like computers and the net and satellite TV and blu-rays and stuff, but LIFE was MUCH more fun and nice back then... SO much less BS.

People's WORD still meant something... If they signed a bill saying they'd pay, then they'd pay... and if they croaked or went broke or something, then their family would pay it off, or at worst you got it back...

Nope, not like now, NOT AT ALL...

Later! OL J R


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

stack em up said:


> Sadly, I am. I don't have any fight left in me anymore. Just goes to show you, never expect anything fro anyone. And this is why I'm so cynical anymore.


Yep... It's got SO bad I'll let stuff ROT before I "give it away".

PEOPLE SUCK!!!

'nuf said...

later! OL J R


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Banker made the decision to write off the unpaid debts. Really took a bite out of my bottom line, but it's one headache I don't have to deal with. Basically 1 year of wrenching on the side and im out of business.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

How many guys owed you $$ ? Did you find a lot of guys couldn't pay?

Another option,which I do, is to buy equipment, fix it, then resell it...you can do it on your schedule, pick equipment you want to work on and are good at, and hopefully turn it for a profit.

Downside is it can tie up A LOT of money...


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

It was 3 guys, 1 for $8,162, one for 1,553, and one for $807. Not a lot but I'm not independently wealthy to finance their operations.

I've thought about buying to resell, but don't really want to turn into a machinery dealer. What type of machinery do you flip? I take it skidloaders are your focus since you always seem to be buying them?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I let a neighbor go for $750 and I am still pissed about it... your a better man then me if you can walk away from those bills..live and learn...

yeah, NH skidsteers. LX & LS series with holes in the block. Getting a little harder to find in the last year or so. I stock a lot of the common stuff (lights,seats,bushings,pins,decals) so I can get them up to snuff fairly quick, but its starting to be a drag...How many Q/A pins and bushings do you have to do till you can do it in your sleep. After 90 NH skidsteers its starting to look like its time for something else...

I am truly amazed how many people don't grease their machine EVER, then run it till the bushings are that shot in the bucket tilt that the tilt cylinder rods bend, and start leaking....

Picked up a couple Case 430/435/465 skidsteers. Going to start messing with them a little.

Also picked up a Tier 4 NH machine. That thing reminds me of the SNL skid with Chris Farley fat man in a little suit. A lot of crap stuffed in a little space...

My experience is have one machine for sale at a time. Keeps it simple, less calls, and less craziness. Plus, you can use the piece that is for sale on your farm, taking the hours off your equipment AND making sure machine is field ready. 50% of the hours I put on a skidsteer in a year are machines that are for sale and leaving the farm...Keeps the hours off my old NH that should be replaced.

You should have some good contacts in the equipment business. Touch base with the salesman at the equipment dealers. You can often get machines that are in the dealers shop, the farmer doesn't want to make the repair on. Dealer takes project machine on trade and sells it right to you. Also, think higher price projects. Anyone can go buy a $3,000 turd and try to fix it and sell it. When you go bigger money the completion dries up quicker and the margins usually increase...

Just my thought and opinions...


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

A bit off topic, I apologize 

The summer I graduated High School I worked heavy construction installing water and sewer mains for a small nonunion company owned by a 3rd cousin, we drove 115 miles one way every day for work, made 6 dollars an hour which was double the minimum wage at the time, and the saying went " if you worked with the big boy's you played like the big boys" well the game they played way back then was drinking, and I was damned good at it at the time lol.... Well one Friday on the way home we stopped in a small town called Wisner that had a general store on one side of the road and kitty corner on the other side of the road there was a bar, we stopped at the general store to cash our checks and get a couple of quarts of beer for the ride home well my buddy got his checked cashed, but they didn't have enough money on hand to cash mine and my bosses checks so the owner/cashier suggested we try the bar across the street, well they cashed the bosses check but couldn't cash mine. We all went back to the general store to get their beers, I wasn't going to get any since i couldn't cash my check, well the owner/cashier said it was okay that I could take 2 quarts for the rode and that I could pay the next time I came through......... The next Monday I made my boss stop at that general store and I went in and payed for those 2 quarts of beer, the owner/cashier looked at me and said I didn't think I'd ever see you again, well I told her I was a man of my word, and she told me that I would have credit there as long as she owned the place, ended up making a friend.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I wouldn't be opposed to buying machinery and resell, but not really sure what I would focus on?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

stack em up said:


> I wouldn't be opposed to buying machinery and resell, but not really sure what I would focus on?


Focus on what you know, what there is a demand for...

In my area NH skidsteer were VERY popular combine that with the engine problems they had in the lae 90's early 2000 and that made a good niche...

Maybe for you it could be a big square baler...Buy one cheap, fix it over the winter then put it in your field to prove its field ready...keep your other big square in the shed for whenever you sell a baler...

or maybe trade in tractors that have engine or powershift issues...did your past employer have trade in machines that needed work that they wholesaled ?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

stack em up said:


> I'm having trouble getting guys to pay for the repairs I do on their machines. One customer owes about $8,000, one owes about $3,000 and then some odds and ends. I go to their place to ask for some cash but apparently I am too nice, as I leave empty handed. It's a double edged sword as I sell seed to these people as well. One cancelled his order for corn when I gave him the bill for his combine work. I'm at a loss in more ways than one. I've started making guys buy their own parts so I don't have that to contend with too, and that has worked well. I can't do this for free like I used to. I used to fix things for free as I thought people would return the favor in time, that never happened once. I've got bills to pay too. Year end is coming quickly.


Always kind of amused me that people I deal with often have two philosophies-one, I pay you when I get paid for something. Two. Their expectation of people owing them is different than people they owe. Hard to wrap your head around that one. However, all paid up for this year without agitation or customer loss and all but cushion hay sold, out of my barn, and paid for. so nothing like you are experiencing Stack.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

My receivables are getting close to 20k, there is one lady I've been pestering monthly for a year and she swears as soon as her boarders pay she will pay it all off. Yeah sure.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Stack, Those are scary stories. lots of scumy people out there. I dont usually have a problem with "pay for hay", but I'm only 4 years into it as a way to make serious money.

I do occasionally have problems with subcontractors not delivering what they promise, which is another form of "theft".

I'm too good to people who work for me. They pull up to the jobsite to do a $10,000-$50,000 in work for me and I always give them some "start up" money, even when its not required, Sometiimes it is required, but even when not, I do it anyway, so he will relax and concentrate on work, instead of rushing to earn his money and cutting corners.

By the time they're 1/2 way done, the "attitude" starts, quality drops, corners are cut, shits getting thrown on the floor and the curse words turn from "darn" to "fu*k". Then I gotta get on them and it escalates into some pretty scary situations.

I'm so tired of it. I have had to fix more mistakes than I'd like to admit.

I just cant understand why some people have such awful attitudes. You hire them and pay their price, create a reasonably pleasant work enviroment, then get shit on. All the while you get told the BS about how "theres no more english speaking people in my field". I'll be replaced by a Mexican".

Now mind you *most* people who work for me are fine, but there's a few who aren't and of course I tend not to rehire them.

I will maintain to this day that the worst days of farming are better than the best days of construction.

I read a "job satisfaction" survey maybe 5 years ago and "Builder/GC" had a single digit level of satisfaction/happiness as a career.

If there was some way I could get out of it, I would. However, the money is decent and its a business I feel like has been in my family name for a long long time. I'm the last one in the business, and it's easy to understand why.


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

I have several friends who will only hire Amish crews to do construction work. I realize that there are not large populations of Amish every where but where they do live for the most part they are good folks, they work hard, they work all day, and there work is excellent I have never heard of anyone that wasn't satisfied with the craftsmanship. They don't work cheap but the extra money is well spent. I have in the past dealt with the Amish folk on a daily basis and once you get to know them and their ways they are good people to know.....


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## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Stack, about 20 years ago before the silver set into my beard a multi-national company went after my small business and in a very short time put my wife and I to the brink of bankruptcy. Lost our house and some gear like a semi trailer and forklifts plus bits and pieces.

Salvaged the mortgage from our house and a busted car for the wife and a high mileage utility truck for me. We were relegated to a tumbledown house on a few acres.

Grew hay on the few acres and took on some rental land that a kind elderly (ha ha he was the age I am now) neighbour and some share farming to increase the hay available for sale.

Bought cheap items at "farm clearing sales" and tinkered them into service. Not got the wrenching skill you have. But could demo on my land and would buy out of season (i.e. just after hay season) and then have ready to sell just before hay season. Few people plan on their mavhinery needs so have to pay a premium for equipment in the peak of the season. My gear was reasonably priced for peak season and turned me reasonable profits, but very high ROI (returns on investment). Buy right, know the prices and ROI of 100+ % Roi was not uncommon.

Traded my way out and paid off all creditors, smallest firs and the big companies later with the multinational that brought me down the very last.

Moral of the story:

With your skills and latent knowledge (at least) f values/pricing you can buy gear I would shy away from because of repairs rather than tuning and make money on the deal plus some money from turning the tools.

Do not despair but look to your strengths.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

That's great advice. I learned that pretty late in life. I pushed real hard doing something I was pretty good at, but high levels of success have seemed to elude me. Farming is different, I'm all-out. Always trying to acquire land, make improvements in equipment positions and finding new ways of getting an edge.
Pursue your passion. Your passion may be a little different that what your best skill is. They don't necessarily go hand in hand.


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