# Is this tractor overpriced? Ford 4600



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I've been looking at this tractor for a long time (ad at the end). He's had it posted forever, can't sell it. Looks like a really nice tractor...new wheels, tires, seat, rebuilt power steering, the engine has been totally rebuilt, I think brakes are new, quick detach loader and quick detach bucket. Ford 4600

I talked to the guy, the lowest he said he could go was $9500, asking $10500. Said he's got over 12k into it, which I can believe. I had asked if he would take 8 because I had to think for myself that if I had to sell the tractor what could I reasonably sell it for, and I'd have to think I'd have a hard time even asking $8k.

However I like the idea of a quick detach loader because I don't always like having a loader on, and especially quick detach bucket. It would primary be my baling tractor pulling NH311 and wagon through the field, and then brush hogging and general work around the acreage. Maybe get a balespear and lift some roundbales with it, I'm just not sure about the single cylinder on the bucket.

I've become disenchanted with my Oliver 550. Want something a little bigger with more power, it has a loader but it's not very effective. Parts can be a little difficult.

I love the way it looks, it's just the right size for me, and parts are relatively cheap and easy to come by. But it's a lot of money.

At $9500 is this a fair buy or has he got way too much in a tractor that he doesn't want to come to terms with?

https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/grd/5946756661.html


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Around here, you hit it about right....


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Nice looking tractor, but $9500 is still pretty high for that small and that OLD of a tractor... REGARDLESS of "how much he has into it".

That's the real clincher... He put a lot into it for whatever reason and is looking to get out of it without taking a bath on it... Good luck!

The biggest mistake someone can make when "restoring" stuff is getting too much tied up in it. In the end nobody really cares "how much you have in it" they're only interested in the condition its in and what it can do (or in the case of antique cars/trucks "what it is").

It's not a TERRIBLE price, but for the same money you could get a MUCH newer and bigger tractor, like a 6600 or even a 5610S that are newer with more power.

Course, if it's really what you want and will do what you need it to do, well, there's something to be said for that as well... check it over thoroughly mechanically and if you like it, buy it. I wouldn't pay a ton more than what similar tractors are bringing though, regardless of "what he's got into it".

When you fix up old stuff, basically you have to figure what you're putting into it for your own use... not figuring you'll get the next guy to "buy you out of it" because generally that doesn't happen, unless you find someone that's just "in love with it". If you're a guy buying stuff to fix and flip, you have to be VERY aware of what you're paying AND what it's likely going to bring when you're done, and make sure you don't go underwater on it...

Later and best of luck! OL J R


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

$9500 is to high for me. Looks as if loader boom has been cracked & plated at the front. New paint tends to camouflage many faults.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I would pass....lots of better Fords out there than that one. I hate to see you sickened as you got more familiar with this tractor.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I would pass - looks worked hard and IMHO the price is high.

IMHO - a very good bang for the buck in an older tractor with a bit more hp is Massey Ferguson 165, 175 or 185.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Run do not walk away from this tractor.

It appears to have a Dunham, Farmhand, 22 loader and an older one at that. The loader frame has been broken and welded, the bucket cylinder and been relocated I would think because of the quick attach face plate. The bucket cylinder is not the original and probably some after market cylinder to get the face plate to work.

The remote is an old style, which would be an indication this is not a 4600.

The 4600 tractors had flat top fenders if I remember right.

The three point hitch lever is definetly not of the 4600 style. The 4600 had dual levers.

The rear wheels do not look right for that model tractor.

While the loader is a quick attach, there are no parking stands with the one in the picture.

The 4600 used an alternator not a generator which is on this tractor.

Find the serial number and the unit number and that will, should tell you what it is. If the tag is gone under the hood then the numbers are stamped in the transmission housing. There is a flat surface at the top right side of the transmission right in back of the starter. The serial number, model code and unit number will be stamped there. The unit number will immediately tell you the day the tractor was made. Example. 6A23B. If this is a 4600 the day the tractor was built in this example is 1/23/1976, B shift. Now what you will find on some of these older tractors is that the transmission may have be replaced with a used one from a different tractor which if the numbers show it to be 1976 and newer is what I would suspect. This is not a 4600!!


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

$9500 is way to high for me and there should be some better options out there for you. As others have pointed out, the loader frame has had some repair work done to it and those front ends weren't the best at standing up to loader work. The power steering should be fine for most of what you are doing, but when there is weight on the front end, it begins to get hard to handle. We have a Ford 5000 and it had a loader on it for years. Did a decent job, but not the greatest. Also, I don't know if Ford upgraded the pump by the time this series came out, but our 5000 has a low flow output from the pump. It's fine for implement cylinder, but for loader work, it moves slow. I think you may also be disappointed in the 3 cylinder engine.

If you aren't in any hurry, you might be able to find a better deal at an auction. I picked up a JD4230 for $7k two years ago and was able to run it on the baler right off the bat. It does need some work, but it's nothing that will keep it out of the field and I can fix things as time and money are available. The trick is you need to know enough about the tractors your looking at to be able to ferret out the problems.

Mike10, this may be a utility model which would explain the tear drop fenders. That's what our 5000 originally had (we've since upgraded to aftermarket flat tops. Our 5000 also has a generator, but it was built in '69 and the 4600s were after that. I would say that if it is a 4600, it was probably an early one.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The utility version used the fender style from a 3000 3600. The fenders in the photos are like the 4000 and 5000 all purpose tractors. All 4600 had alternators. I have seen this many times over the years the misrepresentation of a model. Slap a coat of paint on it and the new decals and you just made a newer tractor out of what you had. Whether it is intentional or not buyer beware.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree that it's not a 4600 but fenders aren't the best indicator. They can be changed during the proocess of painting. Obviously someone was willing to modify the loader as well.

The other things mike10 lists would be less likely to have been altered.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Feedback is appreciated, I have no problem passing on this one.

I saw another that could be worth looking into for just $5900

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10993835/1974-ford-4000

And maybe this one which has industrial front axles

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10838195/ford-4600


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I doubt the one is a 4600. It was probably a yellow industrial tractor that has since been painted blue. Depending on what model was painted it may or may not have the horsepower of a 4600. Possibilities are 420 515 531 532 535. Regardless, it is not a 4600.

I sure am raining on your parade. LOL


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

mike10 said:


> I doubt the one is a 4600. It was probably a yellow industrial tractor that has since been painted blue. Depending on what model was painted it may or may not have the horsepower of a 4600. Possibilities are 420 515 531 532 535. Regardless, it is not a 4600.
> 
> I sure am raining on your parade. LOL


No, it's great! Keep it up! It saves me from buyer's remorse. I was having a hard time figuring out why it looked so much different than other 4600's. But come to think of it I'm not even sure I know what a 4600 REALLY looks like since apparently none of them are.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lol....now that's funny ^^


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Just a piece of advice, paint should be the last thing you look at. Paint will cover a multitude of sins. The 4000 in your post is probably an honest representation of the use it has had. If the tractor is solid otherwise and not beat up, you can always have it painted.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I looked at a 3010 today that a friend of mine is selling. He's an engineer and takes good care of his equipment but is going through a divorce. I'd rather buy something from somebody I know and trust. His 3010 has been well-restored (not just paint slapped on to flip it)...it almost looks too nice. The tractor has been cleared and buffed. But it still has a few minor problems he pointed out. It leaks some hydraulic fluid underneath from the 3 point lift arm. He has a pan that sits under there and it's lost about 1/4-1/2 cup fluid since October, so it's a slow leak.

He thinks the valve guides might be getting worn as the tractor smokes right after starting up on a cold engine. Will probably need a head job at some point.

It has a JD loader on it that detaches quickly but has a trip bucket (the bucket is outfitted to accept a hydraulic cylinder), and the lift cylinders on the loader look pretty wimpy. It's almost too nice of a tractor. I want something that I don't care if it gets a little beat up or paint gets chipped. But he wants $7500 for it and the things it has going for it is it's just a few miles down the road, right within my price range, and I know and trust the guy, and I've always wanted a 3000 or 4000 series JD because my Grandpas had them, and I think they're a great looking tractor.

What it doesn't have going is it's almost too much tractor for my little operation, I don't know much about diesel engines, and we all know how cheap John Deere parts are when they need to be replaced. It's also really more of a show tractor and I struggle with working it and getting it beat up and dirty. I restore cars so I appreciate the work put into it.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Offer him $6k for it take it home and use it . It's a tractor not a sports car it's a memory if you dent it .


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Looks nice, not so sure about that yeller loader but......id do exactly as farmer brown mentioned

Congrats, looks like your tractor search is over, and it's right down the road.....I wouldn't get too worried with the price, it appears to be worth it...just buy as cheap as you can, with older tractors, you just never know what tomorrow brings


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Looks nice, not so sure about that yeller loader but......


Yep, that "yeller" would have to go....looked good on the 'ol dog.....but not on a JD loader. Wheels are plenty.

Regards, Mike


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah, and with an older tractor I'd go a little bigger than what you really "want" anyway...

It usually works better to run a little big bigger machine under a lighter load than it was made for than to run a smaller one right up to the limits of what it can do, especially when you start talking about older stuff.

Later! OL J R


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

How much he has in it is his concern not yours. I'd say that tractor should sell for $6500 to $7000 depending on the shape of the front end with that loader being on it.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

One last thought about the "4600" --- That loader, on that tractor, is gonna be sloooow


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

That loader on the 3010 looks like mine on my 3010 which is a 46a model. But that one there looks like it's been modified, cut and welded back together for some reason. Not saying it's not good or won't work I just wonder why that is. My loader was a trip bucket type too, I ended up adding one cylinder in the middle to work the bucket, never did get the right bucket cylinders for it.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I think I decided against the 3010. I just didn't like the loader, and it was too much tractor for what I need right now, in addition to the fact that it would be too big for me to haul on my trailer with my truck. I figured I would get the misfire fixed in my Oliver and keep on using that.

However I came across a diesel Allis Chalmers 5050 on Craigslist. I don't know a lot about these tractors except they were made by Fiat, is basically the same tractor as some of the larger Oliver, Whites, and Hesston, and parts don't look too difficult to come by. The tractor has 3 synchronized gear sets, more power, faster road gear, and a little more recent of a tractor than my Oliver and something like this seems a lot better suited to my various needs than others I've looked at. I have read the hydraulic pump is pretty slow which could make loader operation a bit annoying. I would be interested in talking this guy down a bit or doing a partial trade for my Oliver. I think his asking price is high given other 5050's I priced out online. Would be nice if this was 4x4 but didn't see any up for sale.

However you guys have been so helpful at steering me away from other bad deals here I thought I'd solicit your input again.

https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/grd/6009129428.html


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I wouldn't buy ANY tractor that was Fiat built. Parts availability will become an issue on some of the old imported tractors. Fiat built Hesstons and some small Olivers but nothing in the "large" category. I bought a 2wd Massey 285 last summer for $4300 and had to replace one rear tire and pay to have it hauled home. You should be able to do so much better than that Allis. I honestly don't see how the 3010 can be too big for anything, aside from your ability to haul it.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

IMHO the Fiat built AC 5050 is a very good tractor. It is worth a Google.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

My suggestion would be to keep looking for a Ford 4600 or 4610. I don't think you will find a more "bullet proof" tractor made!

With the 4610, watch for one with the double hydraulic pumps, makes a loader much more user friendly!

JMHO, Dave


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

8350HiTech said:


> I honestly don't see how the 3010 can be too big for anything, aside from your ability to haul it.


Good point. My trailer is 9000 lb GVWR, I'd just have to borrow the neighbor's 3/4 ton truck (I just have an F150) should I have to haul it somewhere.

I guess my main hang up is the loader. I just don't like the trip bucket. If I could convince myself I could hook up the hydraulics for an additional cylinder on the lift bucket easy enough I'd probably reconsider.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayjosh said:


> I guess my main hang up is the loader. I just don't like the trip bucket.


I don't blame you one bit.....that would be a deal killer for me.

Regards, Mike


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## Green Fields (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't think the JD46a loader is that bad a loader. I've been using mine to handle bales with a homemade bale grapple for decades. I rigged up a bucket cylinder in the middle which has worked okay for my purposes, I haven't used the bucket that came with it though in a long time, it was in pretty bad shape and subsequently fell apart and I haven't gotten replacement yet. Tapping in for the bucket cylinder wasn't that hard once we found out where to hook into. Had to drill and tap for a fitting for the return line and of course I had to buy a valves for the loader since the guy that was using it with the trip bucket just had the loader cylinders hooked into the remote. I would still like to get two bucket cylinders to go where they are supposed to on the loader, but finding original ones is probably impossible and maybe easier to just buy another loader, there's one on tractorhouse now with valve and all asking $1050 or best offer. http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/17864359/john-deere-46a


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Do all 3010's have dual remotes? I thought the one I had looked at just had one set.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

Some have 2 remotes . They where a option.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I've got a bid on an '86 4610. I'll know in 2 days how I did .

But if I actually win it I'll come out with a pretty good deal.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hayjosh said:


> I've got a bid on an '86 4160. I'll know in 2 days how I did .
> 
> But if I actually win it I'll come out with a pretty good deal.


A what?

Edit: figured out you meant 4610. I think.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

8350HiTech said:


> A what?
> 
> Edit: figured out you meant 4610. I think.


Yes, 4610. I dyslexied it.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

This is going to sound kind of stupid, but I have no idea if I won this thing. The auction is over, it was only supposed to be for today, and everything says lot closed. I was still the highest bid at $5600 and my maximum was set at $6000. I had entered an online bid. I had received an instant notification every time somebody bid against mine during prebidding, but I haven't received any notification that I am the winner so I have no idea what's going on. I'd have called the company but they were closed for the day. They seem like fantastic people however. I called with some questions on this, the guy I talked to couldn't answer some of them with 100% certainty and he said he didn't want me to have any surprises if I won it so they went out and tested it and called me back.

This is the tractor

https://green.nextlot.com/public/sales/77233/lots/16698635


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

You'll probably get a confirmation tomorrow.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Congratulations looks to be in order, nothing like adding to the equipment family .

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I guess I didn't win it after all. I think I'm just going to use the Oliver for another year.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Sorry, maybe a tough break and maybe not, hope you enjoyed the chase. I would suggest that you rest up, because there will be another one to chase in your future. I have to admit I find tractor and farm equipment chasing kind of addicting. 

You just gave me a reason not to bid in an on-line auction, I don't think I could stand the waiting / uncertainty part.

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

r82230 said:


> Sorry, maybe a tough break and maybe not, hope you enjoyed the chase. I would suggest that you rest up, because there will be another one to chase in your future. I have to admit I find tractor and farm equipment chasing kind of addicting.
> 
> You just gave me a reason not to bid in an on-line auction, I don't think I could stand the waiting / uncertainty part.
> 
> Larry


Larry it's almost like you have a bunch of experience at this and know how the game goes. You are correct, there are others to chase and it was certainly addicting.

I think I have decided on this 4610, it's an 84, has a Westendorf loader, 3200 hours, has a canopy (which is something I preferred) and comes with a bale spear for the loader as well (something else I would use). I've talked to this place a few times now, he said it's a very good tractor, starts and runs excellent, guy traded it in wanting something newer. I like the idea of a quick attach loader because I hate having a loader on the tractor most of the time--except for when I need a loader. He took a bunch more pictures and emailed them to me. Anyways, I'd have to have it shipped here, which would cost about $800-1000, and would have to buy it sight unseen as I'd have no way of checking it out myself and don't know anybody locally. They're asking $9500 for it, I might see if they'd take $8900 or $9000. It will eventually need new rear tires, I'll replace the seat and might repaint it and fix it up over time. But tractors at my place get very light use.

Anyways, just wanted to make sure nobody spied any glaring deal breakers. There's nicer 4610's to be had but not for what I want to pay, and this one to be in pretty good shape.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/18098771/1984-ford-4610


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mike10 said:


> Just a piece of advice, paint should be the last thing you look at. Paint will cover a multitude of sins. The 4000 in your post is probably an honest representation of the use it has had. If the tractor is solid otherwise and not beat up, you can always have it painted.


Paint and fresh oil in everything. Grandfather would walk away from anything that had fresh oil in it, whether it be engine, hydraulics or transmission.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

HJ, you might want to try to see if someone on HT is in the area of this tractor or has bought from this dealer. Their opinion might be good, might be bad, but at least you would have a little more to go on. After all there are dealers and there is GREAT dealers, no matter what the color is.

IMHO, there are no bad questions, just some answers are a little suspect.

My two pennies.

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I bought the 4610 I linked above today, after not finding anybody local to look at it. I ended up coming out pretty good I think. It was listed for $9500. I called and asked 'would you take $9000 for it?'

He says 'no, but I'd take $8500.'

I had a few moments of confusion and asking him to say it again and we agreed on $8500! 

He said he already determined what his bottom price could be and wasn't a very good liar. So I figure even in worse case scenario would I get this tractor home and immediately have to sink $2k worth of repairs into it, I'm only in it for $10,500 which is still as much or less than a lot of other 4610's I've seen listed. However, this guy at the dealership has seemed very honest and forthright with me this entire time (I'd have to say so if he counter-offered $500 less on the sale price).

So I'm excited for it. Will be nicer to have a more recent tractor with features I actually wanted, like a canopy, hay spear, and quick detach loader as well as more power than what I have right now. I'm also a Ford guy. 2 '69 Mustangs, a 67 Mustang, a 70 F250, a 78 LTDII, and my daily driver 2005 F150, tossing in a Ford tractor seems fair.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Good luck, I hope you get many years of good use out of it.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Just remember, you got a Ford that is near the last of Ford's production, seems they sold out in the early 90s sometime. The 4610 were built late 80s maybe, so hope you have a good NH dealer that has a knowledgeable service/parts manager close by (even if you like Ford, you gotta go to NH ).

IDK about your model but my early 70's Ford 5000 was kind of a hybrid, had a 7000 engine (without turbo and domed pistons), plus a few other 'factory modifications' (if they ran out of one part, just substituted something else it seems during production, before JIT deliveries came about). Made it interesting to say the least on getting parts (IRC I just sent the clutch plate into and waited to have it re-manufactured) is an example. The engine and, fuel injector pump nightmare is a longer story.)

You will have to post the pictures of it arriving at it's new home sometime.

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

r82230 said:


> Just remember, you got a Ford that is near the last of Ford's production, seems they sold out in the early 90s sometime. The 4610 were built late 80s maybe, so hope you have a good NH dealer that has a knowledgeable service/parts manager close by (even if you like Ford, you gotta go to NH ).
> 
> IDK about your model but my early 70's Ford 5000 was kind of a hybrid, had a 7000 engine (without turbo and domed pistons), plus a few other 'factory modifications' (if they ran out of one part, just substituted something else it seems during production, before JIT deliveries came about). Made it interesting to say the least on getting parts (IRC I just sent the clutch plate into and waited to have it re-manufactured) is an example. The engine and, fuel injector pump nightmare is a longer story.)
> 
> ...


After the 4610 they made the 30 series, and the 4630's were made until 1999. I don't know when Ford tractors stopped. We do have a NH dealer in the area, however there's a tractor repair guy over in Hopkins that I use who's very good. I actually called him before I bought this to see what his opinion/experience with them is and make sure he can work on them. He said it was no problem and they were a very good tractor. I've come across the engines for these 4610's brand new and they weren't very expensive.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Hayjosh said:


> After the 4610 they made the 30 series, and the 4630's were made until 1999. I don't know when Ford tractors stopped. We do have a NH dealer in the area, however there's a tractor repair guy over in Hopkins that I use who's very good. I actually called him before I bought this to see what his opinion/experience with them is and make sure he can work on them. He said it was no problem and they were a very good tractor. I've come across the engines for these 4610's brand new and they weren't very expensive.


We bought two 5610S tractors... the one we bought in 98 has big "FORD" stickers on the hood sides, with a little "New Holland" sticker on the radiator cowl panels with the 5610S numbers on it. The one we bought on new years of 2000, has NO "FORD" printed on it anywhere, the "Ford" stickers were replaced with a big "NEW HOLLAND" sticker on the hood...

SO, it was right around 98-99 when Ford and New Holland really parted company... I'd read that their parting was less than amicable.

Later! OL J R


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

The tractor was delivered today and now it's tucked away in the shed. Runs real nice, starts nice. I looked at the bed of the trailer it came on and didn't see any drips from leaks. It had been sitting on the trailer since yesterday so that's a good sign. Will make a really nice tractor for my little operation, MUCH better than my Oliver 550 that I'm parting with. The bonus is the bucket is a quick detach. I had asked the implement company if it was and he had told me no.

I appreciate all the help and advice given to me here, I think it kept me from getting some sketchy tractors.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hayjosh,

Looking good, it's even got the 'fast' exhaust pipe (leaning backwards, for better air dynamics), I think I might know someone who has some leaning exhausts, too for some odd reason. 

Larry


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

I have found that some tractors come with a swept back front axle from the factory, but the swept back exhaust seems to be a field upgrade.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Ayup, got one of them swept back mufflers on my 3910!  Also got a notch in a beam in the barn cellar to match!


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Wethay said:


> I have found that some tractors come with a swept back front axle from the factory, but the swept back exhaust seems to be a field upgrade.


Guess my 3910 has the deluxe upgrade  it's got both!


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