# Hay baling, cutting, tedder, rain



## bill_b_ws (Jun 2, 2010)

Hello,

I fairly new to haying. I cut and rolled about 132 bales on my property last year. Not a lot, but I have 25 acres so it worked out pretty well. Last year the weather was brutal, late first cut, late second, and almost no third. This year it's even worse. It's raining flash thunderstorms almost every evening.

I don't own a tedder. Usually I cut when forcast says no rain for 4 days. I cut after dew dries around ten am or so, let lay two to 3 days, rake on 3rd or 4th and bale on 3rd, 4th or sometimes 4th/5th. I determine when to bale depending on how the hay feels when I hand twist it. Yep, using the old school method so far. Anyway, I need to cut it, but it's forcasted isolated TStorms for the next month. I'm in southwest TN, and the days are around 85-90 degrees here, but very humid at present. Any recommendations? What would a tedder do for me? How would I incorporate it in the process? Is a tedder really necessary? How would it speed up the process if at all? Would it help with the evening light but quick Tstorms? I have a khun disc mower 7ft, v wheel rake 21 feet, and Krone baler. I also have a MF 12 Square Baler that i'm trying to fix for the second cut. Lot of questions I know, I appreciate your help.

Oh if anyone knows a good MF Square Baler Mechanic near Memphis (I'm about 40 miles east of there) let me know. I'd rather a pro did the work on the SQ baler. Thanks again for any help/suggestions!
Regards,
Bill


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Bill welcome to the site, Glad to have ya. Tedders are nice to have, It will save you time and works real well when you have hay raked up that gets wet, spreads it out real well to dry. No more hay than you have its kinda hard to justify one but if you can find a good used one id say go for it, Anything that helps and makes me happy allways seems to get justified, LOL.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

T-storms and humidity...those are why tedders were invented I think. If I'm expecting rain I will tedd early in the AM the day after cutting. This shakes the dew off and gets a jump on the drying process. Same thing if the hay happens to get rained on.....the tedder will get the whole windrow drying right away.

Do you need one for 25 acres? That's a tough call. If you had a tedder you'd be done so fast you'd have to buy more land. Maybe you can widen out your swaths?


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Try and find a half decent used small tedder, worth every dime in poor haying weather. On second and third cut I tedd twice a day to dry it (grasss hay only)Ist cut usually one/ two passes only if it's hot. Knocks about 2 days off vs leaving it lay there/rolling with a rake.


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## blkhawk (May 22, 2010)

Bill, I also am a small operator such as yourself. Last week I had my windrows raked late Sunday afternoon...trying to work 1st cutting around high school graduations and such, when mother nature decided to rain on my crop that night. I tedded the field the next morning and then raked it back into windrows to further dry. Looking at my bales that afternoon, you never would've known it had been rained on. Useful tool those tedders are


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

If you have a cutting that will go 1½ maybe 2 tons or more in a cutting, then use the tedder to spread the hay out to cover 100% of the ground. Right behind the swather if possible. 
This will allow the first days curing to dump the maximum amount of water from the crop. 
A real advantage of a fast dry down is the hay can be below 48% moisture by sunset. This stops respiration and you do not lose carbohydrates, (Digestible Energy) and save dry matter.

IF you do have hay get rained on then the tedder will speed drying down the accumulated moisture.

One thing about curing hay. If the weather is not drying weather it matters little what you do to the hay, unless you haul it to the barn and work it over with hot dry air.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> If you have a cutting that will go 1½ maybe 2 tons or more in a cutting, then use the tedder to spread the hay out to cover 100% of the ground. Right behind the swather if possible.


When will they make me a swather that will do this instead of having to cover the ground again?


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## bill_b_ws (Jun 2, 2010)

Hello everyone. Thank you for your comments. I would have replied earlier, but I thought the forum would email me when someone did. So I logged on to check and had 6 replies! Thanks!

Ok, this is an ignorant question. What's a swath? I hear alot about swath widths etc, but have no idea what they are? My disc cutter just lays it down behind and I rake into windrows, so have no clue what a swath is. Thanks for the answer in advance!
Bill


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## bill_b_ws (Jun 2, 2010)

Oh, there is a l round disk on my cutter that puts the hay back in a set pattern, is that the swather? Thanks!
Bill


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The short answer is a swath is laying the cut plants behind the mower. 
In the real old days the man swinging the scythe would lay the grain or hay out in a swath. 
Then there was the McCormick grain swather that revolutionized small grain harvesting.

In my youth, before mower conditioners as we know them, there was a swath board that laid the hay with a clear area for a tire to run, this kept the mower sickle from becoming tangled in down hay. 
Behind a simple mower or disk mower the hay is dropped in what is called a swath. Later the hay is raked into a manageable system for baling, usually a windrow.

Then the mower conditioners became popular and these would drop the hay into a windrow, supposedly saving a separate operation to build the windrow.

In some climates it was noticed that hay not conditioned but laid down in a swath would cure in the same time of less as a conditioned hay laid down in a windrow.

Some hay growers, mostly in the irrigated arid western states put their hay in a windrow behind their mower conditioner. To help create confusion some refer to these machines as a Swather. Usually a self propelled mower conditioner will be referred to as a swather.

Then there are some small grain growers who cut their wheat, oats, barley, or rye to lay pm the ground so the grain will dry and be able to safely run through a combine. These Swather's do not condition the grain as the hay is conditioned.

I am sure that there are many other local terminologies for what is a swath and what builds a swath.

Clear as mud?


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## bill_b_ws (Jun 2, 2010)

Clear as bottled water. Thank you! As I was mowing today, I looked behind the khun disc cutter and thought, I bet that is a swath. Mine is about 6 feet wide, btw. It makes perfect sense.

On another note, the good old weathermen (yes plural) for the last week have been saying thunderstorms in the afternoon, so I didn't cut and we had no rain. On friday, they called again for 30% storms, but clear Sat and Sunday. I cut friday, had a hydraulic problem and finished today. As I was cutting my last feild, guess what. RAIN. What the heck! So, I don't have a tedder and we got about 3 10ths of an inch. I think I may try to rake Sunday, and then roll it over with my rake on Monday and bail in the afternoon. Problem is I have a V rake and rolling the windrow over is very hard. Does anyone have a solution. I'm thinking find a Tedder ASAP. Thanks!
Bill


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

bill_b_ws said:


> As I was mowing today, I looked behind the khun disc cutter and thought, I bet that is a swath.


LOL.











bill_b_ws said:


> ....I didn't cut and we had no rain. On friday, they called again for 30% storms, but clear Sat and Sunday. I cut friday, had a hydraulic problem and finished today. As I was cutting my last feild, guess what. RAIN.


Yes that is the law of haymaking.



bill_b_ws said:


> So, I don't have a tedder and we got about 3 10ths of an inch. I think I may try to rake Sunday......and then roll it over with my rake on Monday and bail in the afternoon. Problem is I have a V rake and rolling the windrow over is very hard. Does anyone have a solution. I'm thinking find a Tedder ASAP.


IMO, a wheel rake is not he ideal tool for trying to dry hay. The hay needs to be almost ready to bale before I will touch it with a vee rake.

I try to avoid "rolling over" wet hay with a wheel rake. The wheel rake doesn't actually roll the hay over as much as it "ropes" the hay and then there are parts of that window that will never dry. You're in a tough spot trying to dry rained out hay without a tedder or a rotary rake wheel rake.

About all you can do is use only the last wheel or two on one side of the vee rake to flip the hay and try to minimize the roping.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

bill_b_ws said:


> Hello everyone. Thank you for your comments. I would have replied earlier, but I thought the forum would email me when someone did. So I logged on to check and had 6 replies! Thanks!
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill,
If you scroll down after you post a message you can set the forum to e-mail you. We let the posters pick that option. Some folks who do this find lots of e-mail and think they are being spammed. There is a large amount of experienced folks that are extremely helpful. 
Let us know if you have questions about the forum...you can PM or e-mail ZB or I any time. 
Welcome to the community.


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

bill_b_ws said:


> Hello everyone. Thank you for your comments. I would have replied earlier, but I thought the forum would email me when someone did. So I logged on to check and had 6 replies! Thanks!
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill,
If you scroll down after you post a message you can set the forum to e-mail you. It is under "Thread Subscription--Notification Type" We let the posters pick that option. Some folks who do this find lots of e-mail and think they were being spammed. There is a large amount of experienced folks that are extremely helpful. 
Let us know if you have questions about the forum...you can PM or e-mail ZB or I any time. 
Welcome to the community.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Bill to Bill
The idea of a tedder is to stir the hay up some, and spread the hay out wider. Usually 300 maybe 350 PTO RPM's will sufficed. Not as impressive as seeing hay fly out the back in a rooster tail, using 540 RPM, but easier on the hay.

The time to use the tedder is ASAP after cutting. If that is the next day then use it when there is 90% humidity. Early Morning!

When I used a fixed basket tedder I added a hydraulic cylinder to change the pitch of the baskets from the tractor seat.

I now have a NH rake tedder combination machine. As with all combination machines they have their advantages and disadvantages. If I were in the market, today, I would get the Hesston Rake Tedder. It is even more versatile, It works a wider swath, can rake to the middle, rake to one side, or act as a tedder.


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## ikold (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm going out to get a rake / tedder this week. Does anyone have a recomendation ?

My swather is a Hesston 1270 14ft. Sicklebar MOCO.

Am looking for something that can both rake and tedder. Rain here is to unpredictable.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

As I mentioned if I were buying it would be a Hesston Rake Tedder combination.

It does mount on the three point hitch and it is heavy, requiring a heavy front end to counter this weight and keep your stearing tires on the ground.


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## Hogleg (Dec 20, 2009)

After reading this thread, decided to reconfigure my moco. you may want to see if your hesston can be reconfigured. On my Gehl 2175, I removed the hay directors on the back and then re-set a thing they call a fluffer. Basically it is a deflector that you can move from horizontal to vertical in steps. I moved it to straight vertical and now am getting a wide swath of around 90". This still allows the wheels to run in a clear cut and makes it easy to follow the wheel path on the next pass.

Prior I was getting around a 2ft windrow. I also moved the shoes up so that the hay will sit higher on the stubble. Hoping that this will help with drying on still prety moist ground. We are 12in over the average here and the fields are pretty moist.

Again, this has been a very informative thread!

I still think I want a tedder but this will work for now.

John


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

AS long as a baler does not sit out and rust it will last as long as small parts are available.

*It is good to know we can also modify a Gehl 2175 Mower Conditioner to spread out a wide swath. *


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## Waldershrek (Sep 13, 2010)

ikold said:


> I'm going out to get a rake / tedder this week. Does anyone have a recomendation ?


I've always wondered about the rake/tedder units. I can't imagine not using a tedder here in Central NY with the humidity.

I almost bought a New Holland rake/tedder unit (254 I think) but decided I better research it a little more.


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## Waldershrek (Sep 13, 2010)

ikold said:


> I'm going out to get a rake / tedder this week. Does anyone have a recomendation ?


I've always wondered about the rake/tedder units. I can't imagine not using a tedder here in Central NY with the humidity.

I almost bought a New Holland rake/tedder unit (254 I think) but decided I better research it a little more.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

It does have some blemishes. It ONLY rakes to the middle and at best has a 13 foot sweep for hay.

It is really only good for higher yielding and small square bale baling.

If you REALLY *NEED* to use a tedder it is too narrow.

What I like to do for an intermediate yield to follow the mower conditioner with it set it up to rake with one rotor and ted with the other rotor. Then go the length of the field raking in to the tedder, turning around and coming back raking to a tedded middle. You are putting two windrows together. 
Then the next morning come back in full rakiing mode to build the windrow I will bale the following day. 
For a high yield use it as a tedder an hour of so behind the mower conditioner. Set the MOCO to lay as wide as possible swath.

If I were buying today I would get the *Hesston Rake Tedder*. It will rake to the middle, rake to one side, and work as a tedder.

Suggestion for the NH 254 machine. when you get it buy two sets of arms all set up to replace an arm when the ball bearing give out. It is a quick change if you are all set up. Need a total of 4 arms two for each turtle. Plus an extra couple of extra teeth are also a good idea. For both directions.

You have three adjustment to make. 
One is a notch adjustment for the tires. 
Another is a tilt for the rotor just like any rotory rake. They have a crank on a shaft to change the tilt. I cut the crank off and welded a bolt in that took a 15/16" wrench. You can use an air wrench or a ratchet at the barn or a 15/16" combination wrench to make field adjustments. Usually only needed when using as a fixed tine tedder. The articulated tedding is easier on the hay and does not require a major change in tilt.

Then you have the top link to make adjustments. 
Get a dedicated top link for *that rake *and you will not Need to make many adjustments.

I like to both rake and ted using 350 PTO rpm's. Usually rake in road gear, with my tractor. If the hay is thin and not being moved just drop back a gear. 
You really can rake with 570 rpm's, I just don't. My road gear is not fast enough.
If you want to save the leaves use the tedder at 300 to 350 rpm's.

Unlike a roll bar or wheel rake a rotory rake moves the hay to the rear and your raking patterns will be a little different. They have a different sound also.


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## Waldershrek (Sep 13, 2010)

So it sounds like the benefits are outweighed by the disadvantages


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## cbdave (Jan 14, 2011)

Alot of trial and error going on here. Let me explain how the Tedder was intended to be used.
Hay wither grass, alfalfa, Timothy or any forage is a living organism. When dies by being cut develops rigemortis. This effect stiffens the plant stem. SO when cut it falls limp to the ground and often lay against ground. When stiffer and tedded it can stand bridged above ground and allow air to flow around it. The fact that some are tedding hay 2+ times is because the first time directly after the swather has little benefit other than thinning the swath by covering all the ground. This is NOT the design of the original tedder design. It may function in dozens of manners, but its intention is how we have always used it regardless of forage type. It has always saved days over no tedder and never required more than one tedding.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

So when cutting grass hay with a mower/conditioner: Cut hay, let it lay until it dries & "stiffens" as you put it. Then teddder it maybe in a day or 2?

Also, how wide should I open the flaps on my moco? They are adjustable. Seems like to me, I'd want the hay to be bown out in a wide swath to encourage faster dry down....


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

3430 that is a question that will get many different answers depending on location and weather. for where i am this is how we do it. if we have had rain and the ground is still damp we mow into as narrow a swath as we can. this allows the sun to dry the ground without steaming the hay. after the ground is dry we will tedd it out and then retedd as needed. if the ground is dry we will widen the swath out as much as possible then tedd as needed. i will not say this is the way it should be done just that this is how we do it. there will be some that agree and some that will say he's nuts. it's just where you are and what your climate is. gary


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## cbdave (Jan 14, 2011)

Hay Rake makes a good point, but lets remember what a tedder does. I agree with Hay rake if I am not going to ted the hay. But if I am going to spread it all over gods green earth with a tedder, it doesnt frickin matter. May as well open it up as wide as you can so it all "stiffens". And when to do it depends as well. I always TRY to ted as soon as the dew comes off the day after I mowed. The dew is going to soften the hay and allow it to fall closer to contacting the ground. So the purpose of tedding it is to capitalize on as much drying as possible. So leave 2-3 inches of stubble when mowing to give the hay something to buffer it from ground. Tedding it will pick it up and almost bridge it like a TeePee so air can flow around and thru it. So get it done as soon after dew comes off to get all the hours of drying you can. That just saved you a day of drying. Now comes the problem everyone solves diffently. How do you invert ALL of the hay? You have to rake it someplace and everywhere is currently covered by hay. 
I refuse to ted hay more than once. I grow alfalfa and some mixed with quality grasses. So if I wait more than 24 hours after its been cut, I cant slow the tedder down enough and still have it effective while retaining leaves. 
So I have to rake it twice. Once to dry the majority with a twin rotary, a V rake, a Bar rake or any rake you prefer, then a gentle invert with a wheel rake to tip the bottom on top. And if you ate all your vegetables as a kid, god will reward you with a beautiful thick windrow of leafy hay, bright green in color and dry enough it wont spoil. Now once you get this, the game is over. Sell all your shit and retire because you will try entirely to hard to duplicate it again. Just kidding. Its what every single person on this site tries to achieve. We never get paid enough for the stress of fending off thunderstorms, maintaining equipment, killing off groundhogs, keeping the weeds at bay, damning the weatherman 3 times a day in hope for that 3 hours everything works perfect. And our payment comes in that Aroma that cant be duplicated in a candle or an air freshner. But gentleman and ladies, dont take any of this to serious because in the end, your beautiful green sweet smelling efforts all turn to shit.


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## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

cddave if i lived in michigan i would probably agree with you but in maine i don't. once at the pa professional crop growers convention i was told " boy you'd never make hay in pa that way". at the time this bothered me as i thought hay was hay. now i have learned that location is everything. this has been my problem with western hay thoughts and equipment. in late may or early june we mow this morning and bale tomorrow afternoon. in late june we mow this morning and bale this afternoon. so you see what we are doing is measured in hours not days. there are times we have to tedd 3 or 4 times. if your tedder is set properly you should be bringing that bottom up and placing it on the top. that is what a tedder does. hay with moisture is heavier than dry hay the centrifugal force will throw heavier hay further and so place it on top. for us once it goes into a windrow it better be soon going into a bale. there are times here that the windrow can actually pick up moisture. it's just where we are. gary


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