# Anhydrous running gear for hay wagon



## Hayjosh

First post here. I've got a very small hay operation, currently pull off about 700-1000 bales a year from two grass cuttings. All my land is very flat and connected to my farm. I got a 5th wheel running gear for an anhydrous ammonia tank for free, it's in fantastic condition. It also has aviation tires on it.

The running gear has no suspension in the rear as some do, just the leaf spring at the front above the '5th wheel.' Running gear is 11 foot long. I'd like to build an 8x14' bed for it.

I wanted to weld some square tubing (standing upright) under each side of the tilting leaf spring up front to limit it's range of motion. I've seen a lot of discussion on bolting all four corners of the stringers down vs. just two in the rear and chaining the fronts. My question is, since there is a little bit of movement at the front leaf spring that allows for a bit of flex, is there any reason why it wouldn't be fine to bolt all four corners down?

Second question--do I even want to sequester the range of motion of the front leaf spring?

Keep in mind, this is a light use application doing pretty light duty. Though if I did have someone want to take some hay down the road to their place I'd think this wagon would follow better than my big 8x20 wagon.


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## glasswrongsize

On my NH3 wagon, I chained opposite corners down. It still has some play for going thru ditches and whatnot, but cannot fall off. I did not limit any movement on the running gear. Mine has a 16x8 bed and the NH3 wagons will pull ....well let's just say "faster than the law allows"
73, Mark


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## Growing pains

We bolt our beds with a single bolt per side on the front and chain the rear. The reason being on a hill with a newly started load there is a possibility of the bed tilting back if it's bolted at the rear and the chain comes loose at the front.


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## slowzuki

I've looked at few pics of the 5th wheel nh3 wagons, I'd leave that spring along and build it so more of the weight is on the rear axle. It looks like they are fairly short and built not to flex in the frame. This is quite a bit different than a normal running gear that is built to twist.


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## glasswrongsize

slowzuki said:


> I've looked at few pics of the 5th wheel nh3 wagons, I'd leave that spring along and build it so more of the weight is on the rear axle. It looks like they are fairly short and built not to flex in the frame. This is quite a bit different than a normal running gear that is built to twist.


The lack of flex is why I did not bolt either end solid. I bolt my chains together so that they cannot come loose and I leave an inch or two of slop in the chain to allow for flex. MY NH3 wagon pulls better with the front loaded a little heavier. I adjusted the bed forward as it would begin to weave when on the hard road if going downhill and on the brakes; straight and level it did not make any difference.

The main drawback to the NH3 wagons is that the bed has to be a little higher to allow for the front axle to turn under the bed.

73, Mark


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## slowzuki

Ok I assumed you were building the bed behind the front axle a bit more like a round bale mover with the front dolly wheels.


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## glasswrongsize

slowzuki said:


> Ok I assumed you were building the bed behind the front axle a bit more like a round bale mover with the front dolly wheels.


Well Slow, ONE of us is assuming wrong; now, I'm not sure that it's not me that assumed wrong. :huh: I guess it depends on whether old or new style NH3 wagon.

Here are pics of how mine is made if it help the OP decide how to make his better than mine. I'm happy with mine though for full disclosure.

























73 and happy building  !!, Mark


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## Hayjosh

Growing pains said:


> We bolt our beds with a single bolt per side on the front and chain the rear. The reason being on a hill with a newly started load there is a possibility of the bed tilting back if it's bolted at the rear and the chain comes loose at the front.


Ok, a few questions for you then,


how stable is the front of the bed sitting on the leaf spring that can rock left and right?
My running gear just has these little pedestals where the stringers would sit. Does the stringer stay on these just being chained? Because it's not a lot of real estate for the stringer to sit on. I'm using 4x6 treated stringers.
How long is the is your running gear and how long is your bed?
How far does the bed extend behind the back tires and how far over the front tires?


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## Hayjosh

And here's what mine is.


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## slowzuki

That pic is not what I was thinking of!


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## Hayjosh

Sorry, I forgot to tell you I live on the desert planet Tattooine and we have reverse gravity effect.

Yeah, it's really annoying when the forum inverts pictures loaded from mobile.


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## slowzuki

That's ok it tells us you likely have an iPhone and maybe left handed?


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## glasswrongsize

Hayjosh said:


> Ok, a few questions for you then,
> 
> 
> how stable is the front of the bed sitting on the leaf spring that can rock left and right?
> My running gear just has these little pedestals where the stringers would sit. Does the stringer stay on these just being chained? Because it's not a lot of real estate for the stringer to sit on. I'm using 4x6 treated stringers.
> How long is the is your running gear and how long is your bed?
> How far does the bed extend behind the back tires and how far over the front tires?


I know you were asking Growing Pains, but I gave my thoughts as well...

The the springs on the front of your wagon set farther above the horizontal plane that does the rear axle. If you look at the third pic I posted earlier, you will observe that additions (approx 3" sq tubing) have been added to each end of the front suspension strap. Also an upright is welded on the inside of the extensions to disallow the front from shifting side to side.
Also notice that there is a piece of rectangle tubing welded across the back axle to bring the bottom of the bed rails up to the same level as the front.

My wagon beds all are with in 20-24 inches protruding past the front axle.

This particular wagon holds 130 bales when hand stacked and is 16'x8'

Others' wagons may vary.

Hay Josh, you don't happen to be left-handed do you?

73, Mark


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## Hayjosh

Actually Glass, I intended to quote you. Weird, I thought the front mount and the rear mount were level. I'm going to have to check that out now.

It's pretty incredible when today, somebody can know you have an iPhone and are indeed left-handed, simply by the pictures you post.  I'm 34 and technology savvy, but I've clearly got nothing on you guys. Mark, I don't know what '73' means, but if it's your age, I'm calling BS!


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## Growing pains

Seeing your running gear I don't think my way of building wagons would work for you. I leave about 2 feet ahead of the front axle and 3 feet behind the rear axle on a 12 foot long gear making for a 17 foot wagon.


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## glasswrongsize

Hayjosh said:


> Actually Glass, I intended to quote you. Weird, I thought the front mount and the rear mount were level. I'm going to have to check that out now.
> 
> It's pretty incredible when today, somebody can know you have an iPhone and are indeed left-handed, simply by the pictures you post.  I'm 34 and technology savvy, but I've clearly got nothing on you guys. Mark, I don't know what '73' means, but if it's your age, I'm calling BS!


Yours probably ARE closer to being level than mine; I notice that your front spindles are welded under the front axle while mine are on top. Had not noticed that until now.

Iphone and southpaw...me too, that's how I knew. I have to use conscious effort to hold the phone so my right (useless) thumb pokes the button if I intend to post the pic to this site.

"73" is Ham radio code for "best wishes"

73, Mark


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## Hayjosh

Growing pains said:


> Seeing your running gear I don't think my way of building wagons would work for you. I leave about 2 feet ahead of the front axle and 3 feet behind the rear axle on a 12 foot long gear making for a 17 foot wagon.


What are you seeing that makes you say that?

My plan was to put the stringers on the spots where the tank feet would have bolted too. Stringers and then perpendicular 4x4s on top of that, then planking on top. I wonder if that's too close for the stingers to be together, though the hay load on top would be balanced from side to side.


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## Growing pains

My running gear have braces that stand up from the axle that I bolt my stringers to. You could bolt you stringers to the feet or weld uprights on to bolt to and it would work similar.


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