# Coastal Hay - Ideal Moisture Content Range - Ideal Temperature Range



## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

In addition to the *hand break method* to test my hay and I am going to purchase a *Delmhorst F2000 with 18" probe to test the moisture* in windrows and in first two bales. I am baling round bales

My questions:

*What is the ideal moisture range before raking?*

*What is the ideal moisture range in a windrow before baling coastal?*

*What is the ideal moisture range in a round bale? (immediately after baling)*

*What is the ideal temperature range in a round bale?*

Decided against the Agritronix which could be sold under the label John Deere, New Holland, etc, for the unit only has a 1 year warranty.

Thanks,

Mark


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Some variables here. Mower or mower conditioner....rotary or wheel or other rake....horsey folk or cattle

I try to do it like this v v but in the real world.....just sayin

I try to rake at about 18-20% (rotary) 
I want to bale at about 14% for horsey folk......
I want my bales to be in the 14% range +- 1
Temp varies a bit for the first couple of weeks but generally don't like to see 3 digits on temp probe

Hth

BTW. I don't use a delmhorst for windrow readings I use the Deere agrotroix unit that looks like it has a big reflector behind the probe......really good for windrow testing.....still need a 5 gal bucket but seems to work well. Not sure how the delmhorst works other than a probe. One word of advice on the temp probe.....they are inherently slow to react to changes, must keep in the bale for a while to get a true reading. And don't think you can take it out of one bale and insert it into another without allowing it to cool down to ambient temp, it takes a while.......mine did


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Some variables here. Mower or mower conditioner....rotary or wheel or other rake....horsey folk or cattle
> I try to do it like this v v but in the real world.....just sayin
> I try to rake at about 18-20% (rotary)
> I want to bale at about 14% for horsey folk......
> ...


When I was temping some bales that were a tad moist last year, I stuck into ground to get temp back down quick. That was a cheap therm though. Not sure you would want to with a moisture tester...


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I won't bale rd or sq hay above 15% moisture. My Delmhorst doesn't have capability to check temp


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Some variables here. Mower or mower conditioner....rotary or wheel or other rake....horsey folk or cattle
> 
> I try to do it like this v v but in the real world.....just sayin
> 
> ...


The coastal will be cut with a Gehl cutter, no conditioner... May try to cut this Sunday. The hay is for my longhorns. My rake is the Kuhn SR112 GII wheel rake. What is the 5 gallon bucket? I am guessing you pile your cut hay in there and use the probe? On the 14% which I am guessing is ideal? What is don't do it? 18% and above?

Dawg, thank you for your help!!

Mark


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> I won't bale rd or sq hay above 15% moisture. My Delmhorst doesn't have capability to check temp


Thanks!


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

I just came across this on the internet... of course everything is true on the web!

The microwave sounds very interesting! Anyone tried it?

COMMON QUESTIONS ABOUT HAY MOISTURE April 2009 Georgia Cattleman Dennis Hancock, Forage Extension Specialist The University of Georgia The great thing about growing forage in the South is that a lot of high quality forage can be grown. Unfortunately, the bad thing about growing forage in the South is that we often have a devil of a time trying to get it dried down for hay. To make matters worse, it will often "feel" dry enough but isn't (ryegrass is the worst for this). Each year about this time, new horror stories are told during the monthly cattlemen's meeting, around the sale barns, and in the local farm supply stores. Whether it is heat damaged hay or hay barns that have burned down, these dismal tales are preventable. The Ideal Moisture for Baling To keep hay stable (minimal heating and mold growth), forage should ideally be at 15% moisture or less when making round bales (or 18% or less for square bales). This, of course, is often difficult when curing conditions are poor or the weatherman changes the forecast. This is especially problematic during the spring of the year, because we are just as likely to have cool and overcast conditions as we are to have warm and sunny conditions. Measuring Hay Moisture Unfortunately, there is no easy way to accurately measure hay moisture. The "easy" ways aren't very accurate, and the "accurate" ways aren't very easy. Isn't that the way it always works out? So what is wrong with the "easy" way, and why is it frequently wrong (sometimes really wrong)? Well, the "easy way" is to use a hay moisture probe or moisture meter. These devices are almost always capacitance-based moisture meters. They are usually handheld devices or probes that are inserted into the forage or (preferably) a bale, and they measure electrical current between two or more metal leads that are in contact with the forage. These devices are highly (and I mean HIGHLY) dependent on maintaining a high density around and between the contacts. It is virtually impossible to get a high enough density in the windrow, in a bucket, or by wadding it up in a ball in your hand. It has to be compressed in some way. Even when it has been baled up, it sill may not be tight enough around the leads to make good contact and get a good measurement. As a result, these devices are notoriously inaccurate and incredibly variable. Even when properly calibrated and used according to their manufacturer's instructions, hay moisture meters will only get you in the ball park (usually +/- 4 percentage points). The only accurate method for estimating bale moisture is to dry the forage down. A simple and cheap method to dry forage down is the "microwave method." To do this, you will need a small scale (a cheap food scale will work fine) and a hand-me-down microwave.* There's no need to spend much money on these. The combination of a yard-sale and your favorite discount department store will provide just what you need. Even if you had to buy both of them, the total is still likely to be half of what it costs to buy a hay moisture meter. Once the materials are on hand, dry about ¼ lb of the forage in the * Here's a tip: to keep peace at home, don't use the microwave in the kitchen. Ask me how I know. microwave until it reaches a stable weight. It is best to do this in increments of 1-2 minutes, rather than all at one time. It is also important to put a cup of water in the microwave at the same time, as this will prevent the forage from catching on fire. Divide the change in weight (Before - After) by the beginning weight and multiply by 100, and that will give you the percent moisture. Step by step instructions are also available here: http://commodities.caes.uga.edu/fieldcrops/Forages/pubs/microwavemoisturetest.pdf. Going through a Sweat Unless the forage is extremely dry, micro-organisms (fungi, mainly) can grow. As these organisms grow, they give off heat. Even at the target moisture for hay, the temperature of the bales may increase for the first 2 - 3 weeks after baling. Some call this going through a "sweat" because, during this stage, some moisture is driven off and the forage drops to a stable level of moisture of about 12%. During this phase, bale temperatures often go as high as 120° F. This is perfectly normal. Temperature Ranges of Concern If the forage is baled in excess of the target moisture, the bales will heat up substantially more. If the bale temperatures get above 140° F, the sugars begin to caramelize and the protein becomes degraded. The protein can become so damaged that it will be rendered indigestible and, in extreme cases, the animal becomes protein deficient. Interestingly, however, heat damaged hay is often readily consumed by the animal because the caramelized forage is highly palatable. If the forage gets above 180° F, it may be in danger of spontaneous combustion. If it reaches 200° F, call the fire department but do not move the hay (this introduces air and increases the risk of fire). If a thermometer is not available, a piece of rebar or steel rod can be driven into the center of 3 or 4 bales. A couple of times each day, go by and grab the metal. If it is too hot to hold onto for very long, it is likely above 140° F or so. If it is really, really hot, call the fire department and do not move the hay. Learn More about Hay Production Whether you are new to hay production or an old hand at it, I invite you to attend the 2009 Hay Production School. This is the only program in the Southeast that offers an "A to Z" coverage of commercial hay production. This year's event will be held on April 21, 2009 in Griffin in the Stuckey Auditorium on the UGA-Griffin Campus. For more information about the program and to register, check out the Hay Production School webpage on the University of Georgia's forage management webpage (www.georgiaforages.com). Additional information on making hay is also available on www.georgiaforages.com. Of course, if you have questions about this or any other forage management subject, I encourage you to contact your local University of Georgia Cooperative Extension office at 1-800-ASK-UGA1.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Additional chart from the web...

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq9757​


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The microwave is accurate. But only measures the average moisture of the hay when it is sampled. Great for research but for production by the time you know the answer things have changed

With a probe hay that is too tight will read high. Hay that is too loose will read low.

Hay that is baled after a night dew the stems will have a lower moisture than the leaves. The dew moisture on the leaves is not a problem, usually.
Hay that is baled at the end of the day just as the readings reach the magic level will be mostly stem moisture, the leaves will be as dry as gun powder, and that hay will heat and and or mold.

Rake when the HUMIDITY is in the 90% RH range. It will test no lower than 40% moisture, the school solution for raking.

If the HUMIDITY ( down next to the windrow ) is going down thou 70% RH ok for small sq bales.
If the HUMIDITY ( down next to the windrow ) is going down thou 65% RH ok for Large bales.

If the Humidity is between 50% & 55% excessive leaf shatter will occur.

West Virginia says so.

[email protected]


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Two links

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

OR http://anr.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/195601

http://www.uwex.edu/ces/forage/wfc/proceedings2003/speedhaydrying.htm


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

SilentH said:


> The coastal will be cut with a Gehl cutter, no conditioner... May try to cut this Sunday. The hay is for my longhorns. My rake is the Kuhn SR112 GII wheel rake. What is the 5 gallon bucket? I am guessing you pile your cut hay in there and use the probe? On the 14% which I am guessing is ideal? What is don't do it? 18% and above?
> Dawg, thank you for your help!!
> 
> Mark


How heavy did you apply amendments? Lots of precept I assume in TX.....probably good heavy hay? 
Is this grass coastal, Alicia, Tift 85? 
5 gallon bucket is used with the probe I have, you pack the bucket with grass and press the tester into the bucket and press down with approx 40# of force and it reads the moisture, that's the reason for the reflector. Basically there has to be a good bit of hay around the probe and it needs to have pressure applied to the grass and probe. 
Ya if it was 17 And I was a round baling for longhorns I would probably go for it, by the time you get through you're probably down to around 15....
But if weather permits, I like to get it < 15 before I start baling.....most if my customers are horsey folk, can't have any dust. Sometimes at 16-18 the hay will mold slightly and a dust will appear, not too bad for cow folk but not for horsey folk. 
Word of caution about any tester....use both methods to test, twist/break and tester......I've found my tester can be off just a bit, usually a bit high, but I defer to the twist/break if I get conflicting data. I may even roll or square a bale to check the moisture in the bale, just to make sure I get additional data to make a go/no-go decision. 
Dennis Hancock is a very good speaker, have had the pleasure of attending many of his seminars, one in Griffin although it doesn't seem that long ago......but then again, time seems to fly anymore

Hth


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> How heavy did you apply amendments? Lots of precept I assume in TX.....probably good heavy hay?
> Is this grass coastal, Alicia, Tift 85?
> 5 gallon bucket is used with the probe I have, you pack the bucket with grass and press the tester into the bucket and press down with approx 40# of force and it reads the moisture, that's the reason for the reflector. Basically there has to be a good bit of hay around the probe and it needs to have pressure applied to the grass and probe.
> Ya if it was 17 And I was a round baling for longhorns I would probably go for it, by the time you get through you're probably down to around 15....
> ...





somedevildawg said:


> How heavy did you apply amendments? Lots of precept I assume in TX.....probably good heavy hay?
> Is this grass coastal, Alicia, Tift 85?
> 5 gallon bucket is used with the probe I have, you pack the bucket with grass and press the tester into the bucket and press down with approx 40# of force and it reads the moisture, that's the reason for the reflector. Basically there has to be a good bit of hay around the probe and it needs to have pressure applied to the grass and probe.
> Ya if it was 17 And I was a round baling for longhorns I would probably go for it, by the time you get through you're probably down to around 15....
> ...


Amendments...meaning fertilizer? Fertilized about 6 to 8 weeks ago on one field and 3 to 4 weeks ago on another... been too wet to bale... Very thick coastal with very few feeds... Plan on cutting on Sunday and hope to bale on Wednesday. Maybe Tuesday... I have about 36 acres... not sure how many bales per acre? Believe 4 last year with no fertilizer.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Two links
> 
> http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf
> 
> ...


Great articles! Thanks!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

SilentH said:


> Amendments...meaning fertilizer? Fertilized about 6 to 8 weeks ago on one field and 3 to 4 weeks ago on another... been too wet to bale... Very thick coastal with very few feeds... Plan on cutting on Sunday and hope to bale on Wednesday. Maybe Tuesday... I have about 36 acres... not sure how many bales per acre? Believe 4 last year with no fertilizer.


So its thick coastal. Have a tedder? If ya cut cut on Sunday I would cut right after the dew burns off, around 11 here.....takes you a bout four hours to cut....should be done by around 3.....if no chance of rain and you have a tedder, kick it. With good drying conditions Tuesday will be money. If chance of rain is favorable I might leave in windrow, if no tedder I would have a much easier decision


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

What did we do before we had all these bells and whistles? Are we now letting technology control us and make our decisions?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Actually all but one of my bells and whistles are sitting idle and I only look at the Humidity.

I do count strokes per bale and watch when the bale falls off the chute. I still do listen to the slip clutch and if it talks to me I need to lighten up the bales a little.

I still check the stems with my thumb nail & if the skin peals it is still too damp to bale.

Being on Blackland Clay I do not NEED to fertilize after each cutting shich helps. Here I have 2 hours of baling between too damp and too dry which means 600 bales a day baling. That limits my options. This means I cut at most 8 acres of alfalfa or 6 acres of bermudagrass. Gives me time to get all that day's hay in the barn. The last alfalfa field I cut will probably need 2 days to bale as it nay yield over 100 bales/A. Had to cut it in a lower gear to keep from overheating the tractor. Much more than 80 bale/A can be a pain.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

gradyjohn said:


> What did we do before we had all these bells and whistles? Are we now letting technology control us and make our decisions?


I drove by the neighbor tedding a windrow yesterday. With a pitchfork. It dod not look fun.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> How heavy did you apply amendments? Lots of precept I assume in TX.....probably good heavy hay?
> Is this grass coastal, Alicia, Tift 85?
> 5 gallon bucket is used with the probe I have, you pack the bucket with grass and press the tester into the bucket and press down with approx 40# of force and it reads the moisture, that's the reason for the reflector. Basically there has to be a good bit of hay around the probe and it needs to have pressure applied to the grass and probe.
> Ya if it was 17 And I was a round baling for longhorns I would probably go for it, by the time you get through you're probably down to around 15....
> ...


To be clear, trying to check my entire process;

1. Cut my coastal hay on Monday starting around 11 which allows the dew to dry)

2. I wait until Tuesday or Wednesday to rake?

3. I then test the windrow moisture... What time of day? when the dew dries? Around 10 or 11 am?

4. If my test is around 14 to 15...I bale!

5. Additionally, I do the twist and break test

6. I test the first couple of round bales I make? If there are 14 to 15 I bale

thoughts?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

SilentH said:


> To be clear, trying to check my entire process;
> 1. Cut my coastal hay on Monday starting around 11 which allows the dew to dry)
> 2. I wait until Tuesday or Wednesday to rake?
> 3. I then test the windrow moisture... What time of day? when the dew dries? Around 10 or 11 am?
> ...


Ima gonna take a liberty and say they ain't no tedder......damn it jim, wish they was a tedder.

I think you're on the money......I would bet if the grass is heavy and no tedder your not gonna be baling until later, like 4 o clock to bale......I would rake on the last day I think, at 11. Should be done about time to start baling, or at least testing.....if its heavy hay and not real good dry down conditions, ie. high humidity, lots of cloud cover, and 0 wind, be prepared to wait until Thursday.........you could rake on Tuesday as well, before I had a tedder I used to rake twice to turn the windrow.......hated that about as much as I hate teddering........


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Have a Tedder

Just don't know when to use it...

Cut Sunday, Tedder when?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Oh heck yea, if no rain in the forecast for the first night after you cut, right behind the mower. If rain is possible I might wait till day 2 about 11:00, it'll probably make wendsday at lunch. Maybe just a bit later depending on those other factors. The best scenario is right behind the mower.....if no rain and good conditions, may be good to go a bit earlier......


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Dawg,

Cut Sunday, Tedder Tuesday, Wednesday checked a bale we made Tuesday night, 17 to 22%... Not sure what to do with the ones baled...

Did the 5 gallon bucket test today and around 17%... Baling tomorrow starting at 11 am... Checking first two bales and if they are 17 or below...rock and rolling it!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You can unroll if ya want but I wouldn't.......sounds like you're right on target. Good job, hopefully the rest goes smoothly......should be perfect tomorrow


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

What are the temps of the bales?


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> What are the temps of the bales?


My detector doesn't show temp. Important?


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> You can unroll if ya want but I wouldn't.......sounds like you're right on target. Good job, hopefully the rest goes smoothly......should be perfect tomorrow


What happened, munUncle couldn't break it at 11... Convinced me to wait until tomorrow... About 4 cousin came over and said why went you bailing is beyond ready...

Baled 1 of 3 patches late yesterday where moisture meter was consistent around 9 or 10... Is my hay protein quality taking a hit for the lower moisture?

Baling the other 20 acres starting as soon as dew dries... Probably around 11... Take moisture readings and if 16 to 17 or below... Going for it...

Love baking and finding out its an art I am looking to perfect over time through experiences like yesterday


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Will add love my new Kuhn 12 wheel V rake! No more feeding each side of the bale feeder... Plus the thing is fast! Kuhn SR12 GII


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

SilentH said:


> My detector doesn't show temp. Important?


Moisture meter may or may not be completely accurate. My understanding is dust, mold, and loss of feed value is a byproduct of the hay heating (bacterial activity). Excess moisture gives them the environment to flourish. Take a cheap meat thermometer and probe your bales. If they are really problematic you could probably smell them already. Your nose doesnt lie. Here if I bale too wet, a week or two later I can smell it.

Close to air temp is good.

Someone recently posted a good article on the effects of hay heating.

Here is another useful thread:
http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/13311-hay-moisture-and-temperature/


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## CBarM (Mar 1, 2015)

Was reading all the advice and how many days to wait and rake on what day but something very important to think about is ground moisture I'm my experience dry hay on moist ground in bottoms low areas etc can actually act like a wick and pull moisture up from the ground sometimes I will use that and morning dew to my advantage on a normal hot dry Texas year to round bale easier but it's not been the case this year it's taking almost an extra day here to dry you can't cut one day then take and bale the next quite yet here but it's coming


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/26179-effect-of-moisture-content-on-hay/

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/26166-good-article/

Good reading thanks to Mike120 near you and Coondle down under.


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## SilentH (Aug 27, 2014)

Overall I baled 151 from 32 acres... Lesson learned... hay moisture can change fast from 11 to 3 in Texas heat... Weather permitting going to lightly fertilize soon...

Thanks for all the help!

On a side note, my operator of a bob cat called the "tree terminator" where it has a 20" cutter on the front had a tree down Sunday, and when he tried to move an 8' branch somehow he lost it and it crashed through his front cab exploding the glass on the limb sitting in his lap! He was shaken up but not hurt!

In addition, I know the Fire Chief in San Benito, where a couple of weeks ago his cousin was killed by bees after hitting an old irrigation pipe. Be careful out there!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I bale all the time between 16-18% with no preservative, under 16% is getting dry for me as all my hay as at least some alfalfa in it, weight of bales starts to drop fast as well once it starts getting under 16%. Since going with my Super C rolls I bale all the time at 18% or under and don't have problems with heating, best guess is since the stem is conditioned better the Harvest Tec unit gets a more "true" reading of the internal moisture of the stem.

Since you're no conditioning at all might be wise to stick with your 14% as shown by a hand probe as the internal moisture could be higher.


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