# Kubota Ambitions



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Kubota hopes to be a real threat to John Deere ten years from now.....I hope they do.....and force Deere to be more price competitive. But that is probably just wishful thinking on both accounts.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com..._to_john_deere/


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think Deere is already aware of the problem and producing cheaper tractors with a few less features. 
I wish I owned Deere rather than Kubota. They last longer and hold more value. If I become successful, I'm sure I will be able to step up and buy the best.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

A Kubota dealer told me a couple yrs ago at a farm show that Kubota was entering the larger tractor market 150+ HP.
I haven't heard or seen anything since but that could be intersting.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> A Kubota dealer told me a couple yrs ago at a farm show that Kubota was entering the larger tractor market 150+ HP.
> I haven't heard or seen anything since but that could be intersting.


I heard they were, too. I was a little disappointed when I heard they were subcontracting them. Not building them in-house, which was one of Kubota's best liked features. They make a lot of what goes into their tractors in-house.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I'm not sure that Deer makes a better farm tractor any more than Cat makes better construction equipment. What they've both done is put a good support network in place in terms of fast replacement parts, on-site repairs, dealers, etc. When you buy their products, you also get the warm and fuzzies that you will be supported after the sale. This is based on their past performance which is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. In the past, they were more integrated, made more of the components, and had much tighter quality control over the end product. Now, all of them are assembling their products with components made by vendors, that are made by sub-vendors, that are made by sub, sub-vendors.....Complexity in the supply chain equals even more complexity in quality control. Couple that with automation that is even more difficult to assure long-term quality in and you have a pretty cloudy future for equipment reliability. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the company's balance sheet and how much they are willing to spend to maintain the warm and fuzzies you get when you buy their products.....That's what the premium covers when you buy a particular brand, not necessarily a better piece of equipment. Cheap imports erode the balance sheets and only start a race to the bottom where we, the end users, are the ultimate victims. I've got a 25 year old tractor, I can almost guarantee that a new tractor sold today, won't be running in 25 years.....it's a whole different world now.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Thats one of the things I like about Kubota. They make their own engines, transmissions, rears, axles, cabs, etc.
They do sub out some parts (glass, tires, seats, wheels, etc), but they seem to make more "in house" than others.

The trend to "sub out" assemblies probably comes from the problem of how to pay in house labor to make everything.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Do you think Kubota can ever touch John Deere though on sales? Even 10 years from now. Lot of guys bleed green. Nevermind NH/CIH and AGCO competition. I didn't know they make their own engines which I guess is kind of nice. Unlike AGCO and NH/CIH who I sometimes feel just go with the engine maker that can make the best engine vs cost vs quality. The NH/CIH dealer here is also a Kubota dealer. I think they sell more of the Kubota small tractors then Case or NH small tractors. I know they do sell more of the tracked Kubota skid loaders then any NH skids.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan said:


> Do you think Kubota can ever touch John Deere though on sales? Even 10 years from now. Lot of guys bleed green. Nevermind NH/CIH and AGCO competition. I didn't know they make their own engines which I guess is kind of nice. Unlike AGCO and NH/CIH who I sometimes feel just go with the engine maker that can make the best engine vs cost vs quality. The NH/CIH dealer here is also a Kubota dealer. I think they sell more of the Kubota small tractors then Case or NH small tractors. I know they do sell more of the tracked Kubota skid loaders then any NH skids.


Not only does Kubota put Kubota engines in all their own equipment, they also power a lot of other equipment companies.
NH used to make their own engines, but since being bought by FIAT, I see a lot of FPT or fiat engines in them. CIH used to have Cummins 5.9/8.3 in them. Now I see other names under the bonnett. I was a big fan of Cummins and the NH 7.8L tractor engines.

Kubota will NEVER catch Deere in sales. Deere makes everything from combines to kids toys. Deere makes tractors from 10-700HP. Kubota makes tractors from 15-135HP and a few tractor attachments. I'd be surprised if Kubota was 1/25th th size of Deere in slaes right now.


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

[sup]About a year ago, there was an article in Bloomberg Business Week that talked about John Deere's plans for the future. Their CEO said that the average age of farm machinery in the US was the youngest since the early 1970s. Consequently, they didn't see much growth potential here in the next decade but all the action would be in Asia.[/sup]

[sup]They planned to break ground in 2012 for a plant in India that would build compact tractors (30 HP range). According to Deere's CEO, the typical farm in Asia is 6 acres. This was to be the first time Deere would actually make their own compact. The units they've sold in the past and still sell here in the US are all made by other vendors. Right now, I think they're all Yanmars.[/sup]

[sup]The plant may be up and running by now. The article stated that those true Deere compact tractors would not reach US markets.[/sup]


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

And the average age of the farmer in the US is the oldest it's ever been.
Equipment youngest, owner oldest....wonder what that tells us?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> And the average age of the farmer in the US is the oldest it's ever been.
> Equipment youngest, owner oldest....wonder what that tells us?


That there will be a lot of "young" equipment on the market over the next 20 years?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

......or a lot of aging farmers, many of whom are less willing to wrench on newer computerized equipment???


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'll tell ya there are more Kubota's here than JD right up to the largest Kubota's. After that the big 4 have pretty equal footing. I know in Canada Kubota is much higher represented than in the US though. They are marketed as a premium brand and have much more respect that in the US. The old M series with the planetary front ends sold really well in the 80's and got them a lot of respect with farmers as chore tractors that the M6800-M9000 followed up on really well.

JD pulled out of the market here years ago 70's maybe? then got back in around 2000, only to have that dealer go bankrupt and screw over a lot of people in 2005, then start back up in 2007 or so. They took a friend of mine for 14K, they wouldn't take his trade but agreed to let it sit on their lot to sell on commission. It sold and they didn't call keeping the payment and commission money as they went bankrupt.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

IMO, Kubota should NOT enter the big tractor market until they can build the main parts of the tractors themselves (hopefully here in the USA).

I think a USA made Kubota 125HP to 200HP line of farm tractors would cast them into American farming culture like nothing else.
They do what they can to make tractors and parts here, but theyre still made in Japan for the most part (and pretty nice quality I might add). IMO, a "'Murrican made" big farm tractor would give them what Toyota brags about with their "American made" Tundras.
It's partly a PR move for sure, but its just good business and good for the USA.


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Ever try to break a ginsui knife? Pretty sure they are made outa same stuff.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

enos said:


> Ever try to break a ginsui knife? Pretty sure they are made outa same stuff.


Can't say that I have!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> The trend to "sub out" assemblies probably comes from the problem of how to pay in house labor to make everything.


A smart company will often sub out a lot of the components because it allows them to get a lower cost product. Two, three or more companies bidding on the same item often leads to better quality at a lower price.

One company in the 80's (and I can't think of who it was right now) had their internal departments competitively bid against outside suppliers on components. And they where held to their bid! Made the internal departments much more efficient. They were treated as a business within a business. Also, they were allowed to subcontract to other firms.

Ralph


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

rjmoses said:


> A smart company will often sub out a lot of the components because it allows them to get a lower cost product. Two, three or more companies bidding on the same item often leads to better quality at a lower price.
> 
> One company in the 80's (and I can't think of who it was right now) had their internal departments competitively bid against outside suppliers on components. And they where held to their bid! Made the internal departments much more efficient. They were treated as a business within a business. Also, they were allowed to subcontract to other firms.
> 
> Ralph


When I worked in manufacturing in the 80's work was bid on the ouside as well as inhouse. Lots of moulds were built overseas, and had to be rewoked before being usable. Then the company started sending someone overseas to inspect the moulds during and before shipment. Problem was these trips and or rework inhouse was not considered part of the cost of the mould at that time. Later they "wised up" and added those cost to the item and found out that it exceeded the in house bid, but it was too late as the decision to close that facility had already been made.

Also there are online auctions for manufacturerers that are reverse bidding, you keep bidding lower, to get item or job.


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## Erock813 (Jun 3, 2008)

I've broken a m120 after 3 years and 1500 hours.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I've broken a brand new cat backhoe the day it was delivered! Lol


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

CAT is not what it used to be in my opinion. Not sure they can fix the newer stuff other than by trial and error.


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> IMO, Kubota should NOT enter the big tractor market until they can build the main parts of the tractors themselves (hopefully here in the USA).
> 
> I think a USA made Kubota 125HP to 200HP line of farm tractors would cast them into American farming culture like nothing else.
> They do what they can to make tractors and parts here, but theyre still made in Japan for the most part (and pretty nice quality I might add). IMO, a "'Murrican made" big farm tractor would give them what Toyota brags about with their "American made" Tundras.
> It's partly a PR move for sure, but its just good business and good for the USA.


Kubota is taking the cream of the crop in the market. There are more small farms and ranches, and large estates where large tractors are economically out of the question. I would love to have a 7320r JD with the front, left, and right MOCO that alows you to cut 27'. Unfortnately I have to settle with my 946 MOCO ... at least until I win the Lottery.

Both have a good resale value but Kubota does not make one the would pull the 946.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

gradyjohn said:


> Kubota is taking the cream of the crop in the market. There are more small farms and ranches, and large estates where large tractors are economically out of the question. I would love to have a 7320r JD with the front, left, and right MOCO that alows you to cut 27'. Unfortnately I have to settle with my 946 MOCO ... at least until I win the Lottery.
> 
> Both have a good resale value but Kubota does not make one the would pull the 946.


Yep you're right. I just went to a farm last week that just bought a really loaded up Kubota 9540 and he told me he bought it to replace a Deere. I asked him why and he said in the 10 years he owned that Deere, it never ran right., All kinds of problems. He went on and on about it.
I know thats just a freak one in a hundred problem with Deere, but this guy was wealthy and could have easily afforded a nice new Deere. He went with Kubota. If I had money, I'd buy Deere.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Yep you're right. I just went to a farm last week that just bought a really loaded up Kubota 9540 and he told me he bought it to replace a Deere. I asked him why and he said in the 10 years he owned that Deere, it never ran right., All kinds of problems. He went on and on about it.
> I know thats just a freak one in a hundred problem with Deere, but this guy was wealthy and could have easily afforded a nice new Deere. He went with Kubota. If I had money, I'd buy Deere.


Even if you have the money an unreliable tractor or anything will sour your thoughts of buying another of the same brand.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, that's very true. I would think Deere would come out ahead of Kubota in the long run on reliability.....


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

JD, do you cut more with the disc bine or the 1499 ?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Yes, that's very true. I would think Deere would come out ahead of Kubota in the long run on reliability.....


I'm pretty sure it would too, in creature comforts its ahead in the short run.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

True. I sat in the cabs of both when I was buying. Although Deere was 20% more expensive, the cab was bigger and more comfortable. 
I feel so spoiled just to have the Kubota cab, that Deere's level of luxury is something I couldn't imagine having, or could afford. I was way over budget just on the price of a rental return almost new Kubota!!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I'll tell you why I don't really like Kubota. It's simply a matter of color. I'm sure the tractors are fine. I do not like that they paint the wheels orange to go with the exterior paint. Why can't they paint them gray or something. So that's my shallow reason for not liking Kubota. That is all.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> I'll tell you why I don't really like Kubota. It's simply a matter of color. I'm sure the tractors are fine. I do not like that they paint the wheels orange to go with the exterior paint. Why can't they paint them gray or something. So that's my shallow reason for not liking Kubota. That is all.


Yea not a big fan of the orange.Mine has power adjust wheels with the silver power adjust hardware makes it look alot different.Silver or grey rims would prly make it look not so ORANGE.Maybe I could pimp it out and get chrome rims with spinners?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> Yea not a big fan of the orange.Mine has power adjust wheels with the silver power adjust hardware makes it look alot different.Silver or grey rims would prly make it look not so ORANGE.Maybe I could pimp it out and get chrome rims with spinners?


My 126 just got delivered yesterday. I got the power adjust rims, too. Ugly as sin. Cast centers have already morphed from deep orange to a salmon/orange on the way to dirty pink in about 2 years. It's ridiculous. Might as well put a "breast cancer awareness" sticker on the damn thing and get it over with. 
I don't like the Kubota orange much, either, but I don't usually think of farm equipment as something that has to be visually pretty. To me, it's a business tool for making money. I do think just about every other brand is better looking, though. 
Mirrors are pretty much a joke. They are same mirrors as on the little l series. Figures they finally updated them on the G.... 
Did you find the mounting bar for the bale monitor?

Someday I'm gonna own the cool stuff.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Fendt tractors have the orange wheels also, but the rest is green and they look awesome. You are right JD that it's more about what a machine can do rather then the looks, but I think looks are starting to become a thing with the design of tractors and some equipment. Maybe it does help sell them. Like the new NH big square balers are pretty cool looking and "aero dynamic" Same with the Massey big balers. As with Combines also. I actually think the European tractors look the best. Like the Lamborghini tractors. Awesome looking and how would you like to say that you drive a Lamborghini for work.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah the euro tractors with the wide rubber, fender flares and air brakes, roof beacons and the hydraulic hitches are way ahead of us.


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## R Ball (Feb 26, 2013)

Guys I have a rtv 1100. I like it and it is super tuff, not fast. Just wish they could adjust the hydraulics so it would be easier to shift.
This 1100 is my second since I totaled the first one. My buddies don't understand why I didn't go with Polaris, Rhino, etc. Heck I may not be the first one there but I am the most 
Comfortable in any weather.


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## longmeadow farm (Jun 26, 2009)

Kubota is taking its time, but nevertheless is making inroads market share wise. Deere excels in a number of areas, such as customer service/parts availability, but technology wise other manufactures have equal or superior products. If kubota were to concentrate on improving their dealer capabilities and offer implements, as they do in the Pacific rim area, they would increase market share, especially in the small and medium size farm sector. With Kubota recently buying Kvernland of Norway, this seems like a good start..with high quality implements. Kubota is building its future base using advertising in magazines and periodicals directed at the sustainable agriculture movement/sector, which is gaining momentum here in the North East. It would seem that Deere is blind to these emerging agricultural markets or perhaps just arrogant. As a company, Deere supports the agenda of corporate farming and agribusiness..with their lobbying ... even arguing against water quality standards. Corporate governance changed a few years back when Deere installed a CEO that is a finance guy and not an engineer. I told my local dealer that this appointment was a mistake and step back and watch Deere slip..AGCO is beating the pants off of Deere in South America, where Deere is discounting equipment to try and compete, but here in NA they still need to sell list to keep the margins up. Deere's 5000 "E" series tractors are still using Tier 2 & 3 diesel engines when Kubota has had T4i out for quite some time... a good short term strategy to dump non-compliant engines.,. I guess. I own Deere, Kubota and AGCO tractors. Maintenance wise Deere is in 3rd place. To many Green is the best..but to these old eyes.. I'm not convinced.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

"With Kubota recently buying Kvernland of Norway"

Did that finally go through? The last I heard CNH was trying to buy them out from under Kubota.

http://www.kvernelandgroup.com/welcome


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

http://www.agweb.com..._to_john_deere/-oops I thought this was a new story, but it's the same one Vol posted earilier


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

A friend of mine's family had a rainbow dealership & one of their lines was Kubota. His spin was/is they sell the tractor and then some filters and that is about it for parts and maintance.

The local NH & Allis or Agco dealer also works on JD.
For a while they were taking away JD's business selling the Dutch Allis tractors. 
For the large tractors they out compete will with some different colored Red Machines.

I was not too thrilled with the Dutch Allis tractors or hay equipment. I would probably never buy a Mercedes, BMW, or VW as the Dutch Allis stuff gave me the impression the German engineering is not up to US standards.

John Deere's Reputation was built in the 1940 - 1960's and they have been living on that reputation the last 40 years.

If you have the reputation of an early riser you can sleep till Noon!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

What the heck is "Dutch allis" ? Is that deutz?


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

Deutz kinda sounds like Dutch. That's what I think he is referencing.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Around here kubota and vermeere have teamed up on sales. Kubota tractors and vermeere haying machines.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> A friend of mine's family had a rainbow dealership & one of their lines was Kubota. His spin was/is they sell the tractor and then some filters and that is about it for parts and maintance.
> 
> The local NH & Allis or Agco dealer also works on JD.
> For a while they were taking away JD's business selling the Dutch Allis tractors.
> ...


many large farmers in my area have never had anything but green tractors and they still do .. But they are Fendt tractors and Claas SP choppers I agree JD better wake up..


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Kubota has already teamed up with Landpride on property maintenance equipment. You can finance Landpride attachments through Kubota. They offer incentives for each other.


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