# Help for a farmers daughter! Hay planting101



## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

I hope that someone can give some advice. Not a novice but there are things that still need to be planned out right the first time. 
I had a meadow planted 2 years ago in jiggs. It is producing well and the hay looks and tests out great. 
I have a few acres next to this meadow and would like to plant it too. Black soil and tested. I can prepare a good seedbed in a few days or so. 
Can I use a cutting from my jiggs (tops I assume) to hand plant and roll or do I need to buy from someone who sprigs? What are my chances of success assuming I have the moisture and conditions right in May?
I would plant 10 acres or so at a time. Weed control is no problem as we run weed wipers here with good results. 
Am I better off buying tops from a sprigger supply and plant in Feb or March?

Planters are @ 80 to 100 dollars an acre. I have equipment and helpers who need things to do.

Really appreciate any help you guys have to offer

Morgan


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Click on the following article from "Aggie Horticulture" and scroll down to "Planting tops rather than sprigs:"

http://aggie-horticu...da/bermuda.html

Before one can plant tops of bermudagrass, there needs to be top growth. So, unless you farm in the deep South, there likely will not be top growth to cut and plant before May or perhaps even into June.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

1st, welcome to haytalk, there is a lot of knowledge here with lots of great people that really like to help out when we can.

2nd, where are you located? At least the area/state, please...it does make a difference, what will work great for me won't work at all farther north or out west.

3rd, if you have equipment and help that need something to do, I don't see any reason to spend $80 or $100 unless you really need the expense. Your sprigs should work as good as anybody eases. If the conditions are right it'll grow good. If the conditions are not right, it doesn't matter who plants it.
Good luck!!!


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Where are you at? I know of a couple of spriggers that try to sell tops in the late winter/early spring and everyone I know that has tried it has had bad results. Personally, I think you're better off doing it yourself because you can cut and replant very quickly. A fresh cutting/digging, the availability of moisture, and soil fertility are the main keys to successfully planting Jiggs with either tops or sprigs.


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks for the reply guys. I will be leaning on people like you in the future for sure. It is nice to know that there are those who will give their time and experience to someone who needs direction. 
I am south of Eagle Lake Texas. It is in black land which is good and bad. Rain at the wrong time turns horse quality into cow hay very quick. On the other hand, a little rain on my place goes to the plant and not in the sand like on our family land in the Cat Spring area.

I would ask you all the same; i usually wipe weeds early in the season and last year the jiggs and weeds came almost at the same time. We layed up our medows with a 4 inch top and this will all be in the first cutting. If i skip the weed wipe and just do a clean up cut, can i plant that or should I wait for later growth in the year. 
Am I overthinking this stuff?

I am still torn with the idea of planting sprig material early since we have some idle time now with the equipment and help. Not to mention that we have some deep moisture in the black land now. Makes a difference when you begin a seed bed prep.

Would it show my "gender" if thought about planting in lanes or strips with sprigs and then plant the middles with tops if everything goes right in growing my own tops this year.

I assume that we can get a loose top on a bed, do i hand spread or use a manure spreader, we will run a finishing disc 30' to plant and then run a steel roller over it. I think our cultipacker will not push the dirt like the heavy drum.

Ok guys, you brought this on yourselves. What might seem second nature to some can be a stretch for girls like me 
My father passed on late in my teen years. Having gone to college and returned, i am seeing what the farm life is like as an "adult" , if you can believe that. I sure miss that bank of knowledge and support but he taught me how to run anything green or red on this farm. I need to learn more in the front office but for now, i am happy talking to the cows and watching the seed rice beds being put in.
Sorry, too much information I know. 
Thanks again so much

Morgan


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Morgan, the fellers here love to be 'leaned on'. There is a lot of info already on these forums, just set back & read a while. But don't mind asking questions, all of us learn from others questions & answers. And sometimes an old thread will come up with new answers.

BTW, please put your location in your profile, it'll remind us of what area you are in when somebody tries to help ya.


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks Uredneck

I have pushed thru some the older stuff. Way too much lifting but good reading.
I am guilty of asking lots of questions sometimes. The Navy is working on getting that part to be a little less and doing a lot more. 
Updated my profile like you suggested. 
Thanks again to all of you who have responded. Dont quit on me now. 
Morgan


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Morgan, Welcome to a wonderful site. We really have some premier guys on here from Tx that have taught at TAMU and other places along with a lot of other farmers. Don't feel bashful about asking them questions. Nobody knows everything. I have been making hay for almost 50 years and don't know a thing about Bermuda grass. I live in Va. and it has been creeping up this way for the past several years. I'm keeping my ears open. Thanks, Mike


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## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

Morgan : I am over a thousand miles away from you and a different climate, but I may be able to give you some helpful advice.
Here in central Fl we " green top sprigg " almost all of our bermuda grass. We use mature, over 8 week, 10 or 12 week is better, tops. I mow the tops and have them in the ground in less than an hour, that includes rolling. I have found that I can " hold " topps for up to 24hrs in the shade with a lot of water on them. If I hold them about 50% grow vs 85+% if fresh. We hand or machine scatter the tops, then use a " planter" or disc to crimp them in 3 to 5 in deep. Right behind planter/disc we run a HEAVY roller. When I say right behind I am talking less than 5 minutes. This is in deep sand hills.
We like to sprigg in July, as that is well into our rainy season. We have had enough rain to have good soil moisture & will have rain almost every day for about 2 months. Here we normally have 30-60 days with NO rain centered around May. That is why we sprigg starting july and I have sprigged into sept.
Very few farmers here use roots, for us that is a sure way to crop falure. As most of the time we are under water restrictions for irrigation when they should be planted. Now 80-100 miles north of us it is common to use roots in spring or green tops in summer.
If you do use green tops, you need to have good or better soil moisture,plenty of rain forecast for the next 30-60 days or good irrigation.
Sorry for the long reply. Any question you have I will attempt to answer or find someone who can.

scrapiron


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Morgan, first off, welcome to this site. It's a great place and some great folks on here. I've learned a ton of stuff here that would have taken me much longer to learn on my own just by reading on here. While I'm by no means an expert, we planted some Jiggs a season or two ago on our place. We used a custom sprigger located very close to us. As stated above, time from cutting to planting is very important. In hindsight, we could have done it ourselves and saved $100/ac. I won't go into all of the details since they are well described above and in various university publications, but it really is not a precision process. Keep in mind though, if using tops, you will need at 16" of growth to have enough nodes on the stems to have a reasonable chance of getting them to root. You'll also need about 15 bushels to the acre if I recall correctly. Even more is better. Thirdly, pray,pray,pray for rain ASAP after planting unless you can irrigate. Also, the better the seedbed and the better the packing after planting, then the better the tops can hold on to what available moisture there is. Since it was dry the year we planted, we packed prior to planting and the planer packed after. Was still dry that fall and we continued to see sprigs sprout from the planted tops 2 months later so I can only assume it was good choice on our part. Call it dumb luck,,







.
If you're looking to get a stand as early as possible, roots may be a better choice. However, unless you want to spend a lot of time and effort bending down, you're better off relying on a custom sprigger to not only harvest the roots, but plant them too. The roots are better off being harvested around the time the grass breaks dormancy in the early spring. If fresh, survival and emergence is very good, and if fertility is good and the Lord blesses you with enough rain, in 6-10 weeks you can be cutting hay.
One other thing. If your doing field preparations now do yourself a favor and get the field as smooth as possible before you plant. Also get whatever lime you may need in now and it can't hurt a thing to get some fertilizer in other than nitrogen. If your commited to this field then you'll get the investment back later, and you'll be glad you did it that way.
Best of luck,
Steve


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Scrap Iron / Steve

Wow - all of you have been great. What a lot of experience on this forum.

I would like to get your opinion from an earlier question i posted. In the meadow i have, the sides seem to be covering quite well. If i mow it early and then agressively fight the weeds, i think it will fully cover by the end of season even with minimum rain.

The middle portion of the meadow is not so good. It is about 35 acres, i was thinking about disking it and geting the bed prepared now.

Assuming that we operate in 30' widths with the finishing plow, would it be crazy to disk in any spriging material now, maybe plant it in strips at about 50' apart and then as a back up plan, we would come back and plant tops once they are up and mature. 
We can plant quickly that way and even at dusk or night to keep the heat off the cuttings and of course the beer colder in the ice.

Are we wasting our time messing with the early spriging hay? Am i being lazy, should i plant it all now and if it takes great if not plant it again with tops.

It is hard being "me".

Thanks everyone. Need your support cause the tractors are heading out next week. We are going to run them over something regardless of the hay plan. Its like a "high" that will not be missed. Plow something, kill someing or drink something. Spring is on the way and we are ready to jump.

Just bought a Deere 6140D, new stereo and a custom cooler and bottle holder. It is just begging me to crank it up and get it dirty.

We are also disking the field lines and perimeter. Having a controled burn on a large portion of crop land done in a few days.

Thanks again

Morgan


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Morgan,
I doubt you'll find suitable sprigging material until about the end of Febuary, but if you can I think it could be doable. My thinking, is the root sprigs would just stay dormant until the ground warms. Probably Dr. V. Haby can give you a more definative answer. If the field isn't too wet now, and you can't get sprigs, I'd probably start getting it ready if you want to put roots/sprigs in. Like stated earlier, tops won't be available until about 16" of new growth on them appears, so if that's your choice, no need to rush on preparing the field until about 6 weeks after the last good frost in your area. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question adequately, but I hope that helps some.
Regards,
Steve


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## scrapiron (Mar 10, 2010)

Morgan : Whoa,slow down, mabe even back up, cowgirl,rancher, hay farmer ! Have you got a soil test ? Do you need lime, calcium,how much fertlizer, { N,P,K and minors },sulfer, mg,bo & iron are VERY important !
have you sprayed the exhisting grass to kill it( Roundup or it's generic ). Do you have your preplant fertlizer on hand to put down BEFORE your last tillage pass before you sprigg ???? Do you have someone to dig your spriggs,and plant them, or where are you going to get green tops this early in the year?

Do you have a sprayer? or a spray guy that can spray on one day's notice ? Do you have weed killer on hand? Almost all bermuda grass can stand( 2,4,d )at 24oz per acre at any age or time. Seedling bahia grass & all broadleafs will be killed with 16-24 oz of 2,4,d,per acre when very small.

What is your soil moisture now & when you will sprigg ? It could be several weeks before you can sprigg !IT MIGHT BE DRY THEN !!!! It is VERY costly $$$$$$ per acre to plant bermuda grass , Do it right the first time !!!!!!! Don't get in a rush & make a costly mistake, I have been there done that !! I have spent many thousand $$$ and had NOTHING to show for it !!! and had to do it over& still didn't get it done like I wanted !

scrapiron


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Good gosh, I agree with Steve and Scrapiron. Even though you're a little SW of me I have a hard time believing that your grasses aren't dormant. I've only got a few patches of green in any of my fields because they, and everything around me is dormant. IMHO right now is even too early to spot kill weeds.

Drive the Deere all over your fields and burn a tank of diesel but just don't hook up any implements yet.


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Scap Iron / Mike

Ok, you have my attention! You guys are just trying to push me off the tractor and back in the bar. Actually for a minute there, I thought my Dad was on this post. Lol.

To add more value to my posts; yes we are all good in the soil prep / testing etc. had lime put out at the end of last season, we have access to all fertilizers and we hold a license to apply the appropriate weed killers. Having Helena right down the road is a good thing. We can spray or use a weed wiper when needed

We are currently plowing a fire boundry along a lot of our rice / Milo fields. So yes i had fun the past couple of days. We are having it burned and turned now.

So, my thought process, was to plow the strips in the meadow where I will plant in March or later. I wanted to break the black dirt now while it has some moisture to set the plows and i would also run the finish disk later at time of planting if needed.

Now, guys, I really do respect and value your advice. I will follow it even if you will crash my party plans.

Don't box me in too much, I have to report back to my Navy duty at the end of this year

Let me live a little!

All joking aside, i do thank you for your help

Are tired of me yet?

Morgan


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## cwright (Oct 19, 2011)

Can't you just drive the tractor to the bar?

Joking aside these guys know what they are talking about.

Welcome to the site Morgan.

CW


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

In Deep and Dirty,

To quote a statement from you...

"I wanted to break the black _*dirt*_ now while it has some moisture to set the plows and i would also run the finish disk later at time of planting if needed."

The use of 4 letter d___ words are frowned on by some of us in HayTalk.

Like many have written above, don't get so anxious to get on the tractor, unless you simply want to antagonize your neighboring farmers by running up and down the road on your tractor this early. It's still winter...


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Ok guys, I will wait a few weeks.

CW - I actually can cross Hwy 90 from the meadow - and walla - cold beer and AC all day.

I have to watch the hard stuff - dont want to get charged with "baling while intoxicated".

Well, since you guys have shut me down, I will get out there and log some flight hours. I have to keep my wheels up hours on goal or i will lose my spot in AD Training when I get back on new orders. Cant wait to move up in the rotation.

Maybe zip over to Tyler and Hockley and buzz some of you guys.

Good thing you dont post GPS locations or I might spread out some of your cattle. Just joking.

Does not hurt them - but they might calve a bit early. Lol

Hey - on a different note and way off topic, anyone really know what the cattle tagging rules are for this year? I can ask the extension agent but wondered if you guys are affected by this.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

I'll happily provide a Lat. and Long. if you happen to have some "extra" fertilizer to unload sometime!,,








Wait a minute! The commercial type! Don't want to give anyone any ideas,,


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

In deep and dirty said:


> Well, since you guys have shut me down, I will get out there and log some flight hours. I have to keep my wheels up hours on goal or i will lose my spot in AD Training when I get back on new orders. Cant wait to move up in the rotation.


Whatcha driving? I went through Pensacola, Beeville, and Kingsville before going to Heavies in the old days. Did Carrier Quals on the old Lexington.


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Mike,
Did my first run thru Pensacola but doesnt everyone? That place is interesting with the mix of newbies and FC,s. Lot of broken hearts left there every 18 months. 
At this time of my Navy Life - I am designated as FRP and will likely be heading for a Marine Facility on the left coast. Will have to kiss butt all over again but you know how that goes when you are a replacement. 
I am a photobeanie, assigned to S- 3 Viking yet might qualify on P-3C since I went wheels down on Hardship. (Sister was murdered in Dallas had to come home and settle people down). Anyway, heading back soon and love it, just a WAG of where they place me upon return. Sorry for the book this is becoming, you can tell I am loving the ride. 
At home, I fly a new Thrush 510 Crop Duster. It is recently FAA approved and we are flying it out on test hours. This thing can fly, turn and roll with so much touch that you never want to put her down. They will spray in your neighborhood soon. The Race Car Driver / Hay Producer has signed on with the owners of the plane for 2013. Nothing to spray now so i just buzz everything. 
Been flying Crop Dusters a long time. Was taught at a very young age. Grandpa had a flight service company and a FS in Louisiana years ago. My Dad was like you Navy Retired and flew until his death. My brother and I were blessed and logged many hours in those duck chasers. 
I was accepted at American Airlines for commercial app. When they offered me a belly slide position at Eagle I walked away. Those guys fly for nothing just hoping to log enough hours to go to the dance. 
I figured, the Navy will love me. And they do.

You guys have been so nice on is board. It has made me do some digging and i hope to have learned a bit.

And now for a hay related question; i made contact with Baker and Steve Naiser? and Henneke who all plant Jiggs. Baker wont plant small acreage since he has the feed store (dont know what he considers large cause I offered 125 acres and he didnt return the call. I know he got it cause i talked to the front office 6 times. 
Mr. Naiser and Henneke both are pushing me to turn the dirt. Says Sept / October and Feb are great times to plant. They do plant a lot so you almost want to give it to them, but then again people with experience here are not sold. 
I guess if you want to risk the money those guys will gladly plant your place 2 or 3 times a year. 
I am not sure if they are blowing smoke up my skirt, but i will hold pat untill later.

Ok, one more cup, beautiful day for flying.

Thanks again guys you are a blessing

Morgan


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your sister.

The Jarheads aren't that bad to work with. Most of my instructors in the VT's were USMC, the only difference was they had to learn to drive a tank before they could learn to drive a plane. Not sure if it helped but they were all pretty good. I drove A3's in 'Nam and then went to reserves before I got out. I didn't retire. We were cannon fodder, they had more pilots than planes and I didn't like being a target for flying telephone posts..

The Thrush is a hell of a plane, Mr Snow was a great designer. He also designed the Air Tractors that are built in the old Texas Thrush plant before they moved to Albany, GA. I always wanted to fly a duster but never had the chance. After I got out I pretty much stuck with Pipers 'cause my uncle and his brothers owned the West Texas and NM franchise....except for an odd Cessna and Aeronca.

I think Baker is better because I used him for some Tifton 85. He's just almost impossible to get a hold of much less pin down but he does good work. I think Steve Naiser likes to plant in February because he's bored. He tried to get me to do it as well and I wouldn't. I know a lot of people who have had failed stands from planting too early. Having said that, Steve does a lot of spriging so a lot of it grows. I know a rice farmer down by Sealey that used Steve and someone else to put in a lot of Jiggs in the last year. I'll dig through my email and PM you his name and phone number.


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## In deep and dirty (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks, she was a real good person. Killed by a law student who couldnt handle goodby. Raped, strangled, mutilated and left in an open bar pit. He gets 40 years cause she had once written a love letter to him. P

Mike,why do i feel like i am talking to an old friend? And i should say Mr. Mike! 
My uncle also flew in Nam. Not sure but it was " puff the magic dragon" a C plane i think ?
My Dad flew as a test pilot in WWII. In the days when a test meant dirt and gravel when a plane was weak. Not like computor simulators and WEX Programs before the model is built. 
All they ever told me was that in the bar,the Army / Marines thought that the AF and Navy Pilots were light weights. But when things were hot on the ground, the afterburner sounds from their planes were like GOD's voice in trees.

If you can , fly the new Thrush. It allows you to come alive. The sounds and vibrations along with the amazing control just makes life stand still. I have loved every minute of it.

I wish you could have known my father. He would have been impressed i am sure.

All this makes the hay problems seem like nothing. I will pass on Naiser this year. 100 bucks an acre is still a lot especially when we have all this equipment at hand.

Please let me know the contact in Sealey. I bet i know them if they are rice farmers.

It is a small world south of I10

God Speed Mr Mike.

Your friend

Morgan


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow Morgan, such a tragic story too often it's repeated....sorry for your families loss.....


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