# Alfalfa Hay. Rotary or wheel rake?



## MattZ (Jun 18, 2014)

This is my first year growing Alfalfa. My brother and I spring seeded 240 ac of irrigated alfalfa. Sitting a ways out yet from first cutting due to excessive rainfall, but wondering if we made the right choice on a rake? We are cash cropping only, we have no cattle. We are cutting with a 1431NH and going to lay the windrow out as wide as possible. Baling with a Krone 890 3x3 bales. We bought a new Krone Swadro800/26 double rotary rake to rake two windrows together.

What's everyone's thoughts on if we did the right thing on getting a rotary rake or should we have stuck with a v-rake? Is the timing on raking different with rotary vs. v-rake? Was it worth the extra money? Will it help dry faster?

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

I've used hesston 3983 12 wheel v-rakes for the last 15 yrs doing 600 ac of alfalfa a yr. Always hated the way the v-rakes made my windrows into ropes. Some spots dried while other spots took longer to dry down.
Finally made the switch to fella dual rotary rakes this yr. Haven't used them yet, but from my yr long research, rotary should make more fluffier swath without roping it.
I traded in my nh 1431 for a wr9770 with a 16ft dual conditioner dsic header. Use to cut and then go over it again with my recon 300 recrimper to dry down faster. Hopefully did the right thing. Everything i've found out, the dual conditioner and rotary rakes will dry it down faster providing the weather co-operates. I'll be cutting 1st cut in about 2weeks. Let you know what I find.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

MattZ said:


> This is my first year growing Alfalfa. My brother and I spring seeded 240 ac of irrigated alfalfa. Sitting a ways out yet from first cutting due to excessive rainfall, but wondering if we made the right choice on a rake? We are cash cropping only, we have no cattle. We are cutting with a 1431NH and going to lay the windrow out as wide as possible. Baling with a Krone 890 3x3 bales. We bought a new Krone Swadro800/26 double rotary rake to rake two windrows together.
> 
> What's everyone's thoughts on if we did the right thing on getting a rotary rake or should we have stuck with a v-rake? Is the timing on raking different with rotary vs. v-rake? Was it worth the extra money? Will it help dry faster?
> 
> Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.


Would not be able to comment on alfalfa as I only do grass hay. That said, I traded a NH258 rake and 163 4 banger for a Krone 38T rotary rake and 17' tedder. I can tell you that my hay dries faster this year hands down and I get over it faster. Windrows from rotaries are fantastic, if you go that route, you won't be sorry. rick


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

My experience yesterday, which lead to my post earlier today of what brand of rotary to get. I baled alfalfa with my 3x3 baler. My cousin had raked two windrows together with a rotary rake, then it had a problem so he finished with his Kuhn speedrake wheel rake. I could go about 4.5 mph when I was baling the rotary rake windrows. I had to slow down about one mph for the windrows made by the wheel rake. The windrows from the speed rake just did't feed into the pickup as smoothly. I could see more leaf shatter also. So I think you made the right decision and I myself I think will buy a rotary rake this winter.


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Rotary rake makes a nice, fluffy windrow, no roping. Been using a rotary rake for years.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Never had any experience with a wheel rake my self, but plenty with a bar. I love my rotory rake. It's like a prepping a field for baling with a scalpel compared to a butter knife.


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

Rotary rake any day. When time is right, I'll have a new kuhn rotary that matches my kuhn tedder.


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## crhay (Jun 19, 2010)

Rotary rake also, If possible I try to rake right as the dew is trying to burn off to keep leaf loss to a minimum


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Rotary rake = Cadillac

Bar rake = Chevy

Wheel rake = Yugo

JMHO, Dave


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Rotary rake = Cadillac
> Bar rake = Chevy
> Wheel rake = Yugo
> 
> JMHO, Dave


Small correction,

Bar rake = Ford


How to start a fight on he forum !


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Growing up we had a little two wheel rake that was attached to the front of a tractor. Always had problems with me bending the wheels. It worked ok. We also had a small NH bar rake, but our windrows of grass hay were always so big that the hay would wrap around the PTO at least once per use. Then in the early 2000s we got the a Kuhn single rotor rotary rake. It worked wonderful and way better then the other ones. Except our first one had issues with bolts coming loose. So as they would get loose we put locktite on them. Until one fateful day when the whole outside part that is sort of a guard came off and bend nearly all the arms. Of course the Kuhn dealer didn't have all the parts, but they had a new one. Traded the old for a new and it's been absolutely great and no loose bolts. Though since going to 3x3 bales 3 years ago it doesn't get as much use.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Rotary rake = Cadillac
> Bar rake = Chevy
> Wheel rake = Yugo
> 
> JMHO, Dave


Hard to lump all wheel rakes into the same category.Huge difference in a elcheapo wheel rake and a high capacity rake.And a huge difference in the high capacity rakes also


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Switched to rotary in 2002 from a bar rake. It was a great decision. Didn't have any experience with a wheel rake till we did some custom baling behind one the last couple of years. Wow what a difference in feeding the baler. I wouldn't give up my rotary.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

OhioHay said:


> Switched to rotary in 2002 from a bar rake. It was a great decision. Didn't have any experience with a wheel rake till we did some custom baling behind one the last couple of years. Wow what a difference in feeding the baler. I wouldn't give up my rotary.


What kind of baler? Small squares, round or large square?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> Hard to lump all wheel rakes into the same category.Huge difference in a elcheapo wheel rake and a high capacity rake.And a huge difference in the high capacity rakes also


Quite a few people around here are getting these huge Darf wheel rakes that cost as much as a new rotary rake with the same working width. I just can't see how much of a difference they could be then my 12 wheel Kuhn Speed Rake. It's still the same principle.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Hard to lump all wheel rakes into the same category.Huge difference in a elcheapo wheel rake and a high capacity rake.And a huge difference in the high capacity rakes also


Its funny, pinwheels have an absolutely terrible reputation around here. Must be a regional thing.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

We don't see the big vee rakes here in this area! Do see a few double rotaries, but not many! The wheel rakes we do see are older 5-6 wheel single side delivery.

As for the 2 wheel front mounted, we called them windrow turners. They were used in conjunction with the self propelled mower conditioners that had narrow conditioners, so left the hay in a windrow instead of a swath! Owatonna comes to mind! That method of making hay was mostly replaced with pull behind "haybines" and rotary tedders in the '60's & '70's. The one thing I remember about the "windrow turners" was that you had to be moving at a pretty good clip for them to work well! Sorta like rolling a snow bank!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Quite a few people around here are getting these huge Darf wheel rakes that cost as much as a new rotary rake with the same working width. I just can't see how much of a difference they could be then my 12 wheel Kuhn Speed Rake. It's still the same principle.


Well, its kinda of like saying that all cars are basically the same because of the same principle of 4 wheels and a engine. Alot of difference in Darf and Kuhn SR rakes. Wheel placement, precision adjustment, wheel type, capacity...just to name a few.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Teslan said:


> Quite a few people around here are getting these huge Darf wheel rakes that cost as much as a new rotary rake with the same working width. I just can't see how much of a difference they could be then my 12 wheel Kuhn Speed Rake. It's still the same principle.


A Kuhn speed rake is not a high capacity rake.The frame holding the wheels is in front of them and hay tends to snag in the arms and causes bunches especials in heavy hay.A high capacity rake has the frame behind the rake wheels and will have a lot less bunching because the arms,frame etc are not catching hay,

Here wheel rakes are king because they are used for cornstalks also.I have no idea what would happen to a rotary rake in stalks??


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> A Kuhn speed rake is not a high capacity rake.The frame holding the wheels is in front of them and hay tends to snag in the arms and causes bunches especials in heavy hay.A high capacity rake has the frame behind the rake wheels and will have a lot less bunching because the arms,frame etc are not catching hay,
> 
> Here wheel rakes are king because they are used for cornstalks also.I have no idea what would happen to a rotary rake in stalks??


Haven't had any problems with the speedrake with snagging or bunches and I've baled some huge windrows that once raked together I'm sorta surprised my baling tractor could pass over without any trouble and that the 3x3 baler could take without creeping along. Though I had to go plenty slow. But then here we only rake two windrows together and not tedded fields. The big high capacity wheel rakes are also just raking two windrows together. You are right with cornstalks though. I wouldn't want my speedrake or a rotary rake even touching a corn field.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Used both a round and small square behind our double rotary. Custom baled rounds behind a wheel rake. Rotary fed much nicer. We have raked corn stalks for several years with the rotary with no problems. We do chop the stalks first.


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## Two Hawk (Jun 9, 2014)

I run a 17 wheel Darf rake on 1200 acres of alfalfa, if you run slow it will rope, more so in light hay. pick up the speed a little and it "taco's" the wide windrows (folds them over on themselves then rolls them together) this weathers wind better and feeds into the headers best. Pick up the speed some more and get the hay up on the boards and it will lay them on top of each other upside down, this dries best but blows worst. You obviously need the right moisture at high speeds or you get a lot of leaf shatter. There are a lot of nuances to making these work well, the angle of the wings changes the way the windrow lifts, the long wing or the short wing the same direction as the swather cut changes how you center the rake.

We are always looking for something better and have never seen a rotary rake out west before, how fast are they? My neighbor has a Vermeer bar rake that is almost painfull to watch work, we double rake a 125 acre center pivot in about 4-1/2 hours, on good dew it will keep up with 3 4x4 big balers.

What is the lifespan? our Darf was new in "98 and I just guesstimated it has raked about 40,000 acres, I think its got at least that much more left in it.

Reliability? every couple thousand acres we break a spring chain or slider,

Cost? 26K for a new wheel rake seems insane to me........


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Two Hawk said:


> I run a 17 wheel Darf rake on 1200 acres of alfalfa, if you run slow it will rope, more so in light hay. pick up the speed a little and it "taco's" the wide windrows (folds them over on themselves then rolls them together) this weathers wind better and feeds into the headers best. Pick up the speed some more and get the hay up on the boards and it will lay them on top of each other upside down, this dries best but blows worst. You obviously need the right moisture at high speeds or you get a lot of leaf shatter. There are a lot of nuances to making these work well, the angle of the wings changes the way the windrow lifts, the long wing or the short wing the same direction as the swather cut changes how you center the rake.
> 
> We are always looking for something better and have never seen a rotary rake out west before, how fast are they? My neighbor has a Vermeer bar rake that is almost painfull to watch work, we double rake a 125 acre center pivot in about 4-1/2 hours, on good dew it will keep up with 3 4x4 big balers.
> 
> ...


I'm curious what kind of swathers you are raking behind. Sickle or Rotary Disc? I ask because when we used to cut hay with a sickle NH haybine and baled with small balers it would always feed better into the baler if you baled the same direction as it was cut (this is without raking, tedding, turning or anything). Especially fed better with alfalfa didn't thrash it as much. With a disc swather it didn't seem to matter which direction you would bale.

I see one new Darf rake on tractorhouse for $29,000. So same price as a rotary.

I've run a Kuhn Rotary and it seems the sweet speed is about 7.5 mph and I forget what RPM or gear for that NH tractor I was using with it was. It would rake 2 windrows together.


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## Two Hawk (Jun 9, 2014)

Teslan said:


> I'm curious what kind of swathers you are raking behind. Sickle or Rotary Disc? I ask because when we used to cut hay with a sickle NH haybine and baled with small balers it would always feed better into the baler if you baled the same direction as it was cut (this is without raking, tedding, turning or anything). Especially fed better with alfalfa didn't thrash it as much. With a disc swather it didn't seem to matter which direction you would bale.
> 
> I see one new Darf rake on tractorhouse for $29,000. So same price as a rotary.
> 
> I've run a Kuhn Rotary and it seems the sweet speed is about 7.5 mph and I forget what RPM or gear for that NH tractor I was using with it was. It would rake 2 windrows together.


Rotary Hesston swathers, 9260 and 9365. windrow direction still makes a small difference feeding, more so picking up the hay than feeding it. I think rotary cut windrows rake slightly worse with the swather direction and better against with the overall raked windrow better compared to sickle cut windrows.

We rake between 8 to 13 mph in good conditions, if its to dry we slow down, sometimes if the windrow just doesn't want to lay right a change in speed or offsetting the rake to one side will make all the difference.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Rotary rake = Cadillac
> 
> Bar rake = Chevy
> 
> ...


I bet you never owned or run a big darf or big allen wheel rake before ? I been doing alfalfa for many years and have always used 17 and 19 wheeled rakes. I do admit I would like to have a vemeer r2800 ? We do several 1000 acres of hay each year with wheeled rakes . I am sure that different parts of the usa are not the same when it comes to haying. In this area there are no rotary rakes very few bar rakes. If you buy a wheel rake stay away from those that use the steel tine fingers for they are pita and break tines often.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

panhandle9400 said:


> I bet you never owned or run a big darf or big allen wheel rake before ? I been doing alfalfa for many years and have always used 17 and 19 wheeled rakes. I do admit I would like to have a vemeer r2800 ? We do several 1000 acres of hay each year with wheeled rakes . I am sure that different parts of the usa are not the same when it comes to haying. In this area there are no rotary rakes very few bar rakes. If you buy a wheel rake stay away from those that use the steel tine fingers for they are pita and break tines often.


A couple of big producing neighbors here had the Vemeer double rakes for awhile. Now they both have big Darf rakes. Although it might be that the dealer that used to sell the Vemeer rakes quit selling them and now sells Darf rakes. And no other dealer around really sells high capacity rakes. I think some of my smaller hay fields wouldn't work well with a 17 or 19 wheel rake. Good for pivot circles. Not so good for odd shaped 20 acre fields or smaller.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I think one of the reasons you don't see the big wheel rake around here is field size, along with roughness/hills. Its hard to maintain speed, and lots of fields have obstructions in them. Lots of the smaller double rotarys, and the tandem rollabar hitches however. I switched to a single rotary this year and so far its been great. Especially for making large silage windrows at lower speed.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Each Rake type has it's own advantages and problems.

The nicest hay for baling is raked with a Rotory Rake.

A good operator can do very well with a wheel rake.

They all need an operator who understands that rake.

I never was much good with a wheel rake.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> A Kuhn speed rake is not a high capacity rake.The frame holding the wheels is in front of them and hay tends to snag in the arms and causes bunches especials in heavy hay.A high capacity rake has the frame behind the rake wheels and will have a lot less bunching because the arms,frame etc are not catching hay,Here wheel rakes are king because they are used for cornstalks also.I have no idea what would happen to a rotary rake in stalks??


Have a baler customer who only uses a twin rotary rake , even in corn stalks. Says it works great. No idea if he is filling me full or not. I'd like a rotary rake,can't afford it though.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

stack em up said:


> Have a baler customer who only uses a twin rotary rake , even in corn stalks. Says it works great. No idea if he is filling me full or not. I'd like a rotary rake,can't afford it though.


No doubt it would work but how hard on the rake would it be?


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Teslan said:


> A couple of big producing neighbors here had the Vemeer double rakes for awhile. Now they both have big Darf rakes. Although it might be that the dealer that used to sell the Vemeer rakes quit selling them and now sells Darf rakes. And no other dealer around really sells high capacity rakes. I think some of my smaller hay fields wouldn't work well with a 17 or 19 wheel rake. Good for pivot circles. Not so good for odd shaped 20 acre fields or smaller.





Teslan said:


> A couple of big producing neighbors here had the Vemeer double rakes for awhile. Now they both have big Darf rakes. Although it might be that the dealer that used to sell the Vemeer rakes quit selling them and now sells Darf rakes. And no other dealer around really sells high capacity rakes. I think some of my smaller hay fields wouldn't work well with a 17 or 19 wheel rake. Good for pivot circles. Not so good for odd shaped 20 acre fields or smaller.


I would like to have a vemeer bar rake for those isolated times that it gets rained on and regrowth ties down the windrow, that way I could power through the regrowth as a wheel rake will tend to do a sloppy job. other than that the darf an allen wheel rakes are top shelf in this area ...............steel tined wheel rakes sit in most everybodies scrap iron pile here...............


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Rouwse also makes a cadilac wheel rake.$$$


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

Around here V rakes are king. Very few of any other rakes here. We use a 20 wheel Rowse V rake with the kicker wheels. The only time we see roping of the raked hay is in real overripe rank 1st cutting alfalfa or on native prairie hay where the volunteer clover gets 5 feet tall and thick. That clover can rope so bad when you stop the tractor the baler probably pulls another 10 feet of windrow in. Our rake does have the steel tines and its getting enough age on it that it breaks quite a few every year. Kind of a PITA to change teeth with the windshields and hub guards to take off but a cordless impact helps speed it up. I'd love to try the Rowse Ultimate with the rubber mounted teeth.

I know of two guys here that one has a 22 wheel and the other a 24 wheel Rowse rake. I think they had to special order those. Those things are huge! I think if I needed a 24 wheel rake I'd invest in a disc to break up and reseed that land if the hay was that thin.

With ours if the mowed hay is real thick we just pull the rake in so we don't take as much. The first time Dad raked real thick mowed hay he had the rake extended all the way and it put so much hay together it didn't come out the back of the rake. lol Thankfully he only made it 20 or 30 yards because I had to bale that monster windrow. Windrow didn't want to go under the tractor but thankfully the old Vermeer M ate it up.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Replaced bar rakes with a 12 wheel high capacity V rake. Huge difference between brands and the quality of the row they make.

Any more I refuse to bale hay that was raked with a bar rake, slows everything down.

I don't know of anybody that uses a rotary rake around here, have never even seen one work in person.


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