# round baler



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I have a 9 acre field of coastal in central SC. I have been cutting and raking and paying others to bale. It's hard enough working around the weather, but the main problem is finding someone to bale when my hay is ready. I am considering buying a used baler. My customers prefer 4x5 bales (700-750 lbs.) as do I because of the relative ease of handling. My harvest last week was baled in a 5.5 x 4 size (1000-1100 lbs.) which is tricky to handle with my JD 4400 with a 430 FEL. What balers are out there that Forum readers would recommend to meet my needs? And within what price range? I appreciate any information.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

What is your price range ? Here at HayTalk we love spending other peoples money!


----------



## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

first question is what do you have for dealers close by. before that is answered i have a nh 740 nice baler but i would try to steer clear because they had pickup issues. there are ways around them if that is all that is in your price range and you have dealer support. vermeer makes a hell of a baler and if you are going to use the hay yourself will put up a bale as heavy as you can handle. now i start the fight, run don't walk away from deere. i am a devoted deere hater. 3 years ago my old 740 would still out bale and make a prettier bale. there it is, that and a buck you might get a cup of coffee.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Will buying a baler for 9 acres ever pay off? Are you concerned if it doesn't?


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

hay rake said:


> . now i start the fight, run don't walk away from deere. i am a devoted deere hater. 3 years ago my old 740 would still out bale and make a prettier bale. there it is, that and a buck you might get a cup of coffee.


If NH rd balers far surpasses JD rd balers why don't they outsell JD rd balers? A person would wear out a new pickup driving around where I live looking for many NH rd balers in the field baling hay. My last 2 JD rd balers had 30,000 & 19,000 bales on the counter so they can't be all bad.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> If NH rd balers far surpasses JD rd balers why don't they outsell JD rd balers?


Marketing,more dealers and the green cool-aide.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Hereabouts, in the midst of corn/beans territory, the JD dealers aren't really interested in moving hay equipment. They get more volume, more income from row crop equipment, like BIG tractors, BIG combines.

As a result, their sales and services on hay equipment stinks. (Which, in a way, makes sense--take better care of your better customers.)

Oh, and BTW, Case/IH dealers operate the same as JD.

Ralph


----------



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I will answer Nitram, hay rake, and 8350HiTech in one post: One reason for previously not buying a baler is the probability that it will never pay off. It does matter, but when my hay needs to be cut and I have the necessary window weather to do so but cannot get anyone to bale, that also matters. As for price range: the size of my operation and probability of no payback dictate a smaller investment in a baler. I have seen a few advertised in the $2,500--$4,000 range, but have not looked at them. As for dealers: Closest is a John Deere dealer 20 miles away.

I know an old farmer who know longer bales. He has a New Holland 850 in his barn and might be willing to sell it. I know it is old, but this farmer maintained his equipment. Are any of you familiar with this model? What size bales does it make? Is it likely to be dependable or a money pit? What should it be worth? I could be satisfied with a slower machine if it is capable of rolling a tight 700-750 lb. bale. Maybe what I am looking for is an impossibility.


----------



## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

We use an old NH 853 that we are generally pretty happy with. it does not fly around the field but its a lot faster than our 24T and we have never had another round baler so to us its very efficient. i think we paid $2500 for it.

For smaller bales I have seen some good looking 848's for cheap. Or if you want to spend 4-5K you could get a nice little 335 JD I think.

I think the small investment in an older but reliable baler is worth the money to get your hay done when you want to.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> Marketing,more dealers and the green cool-aide.


That statement could apply to any new product. By ""green cool-aide"" I guess you mean BEER that wasn't processed correctly RIGHT????


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Tx Jim said:


> That statement could apply to any new product. By ""green cool-aide"" I guess you mean BEER that wasn't processed correctly RIGHT????


Nope,JD T shirts,JD onesies,JD mailboxes,JD toys.Get them kids started on the cool-aide right away.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

So JD is guilty of good advertising strategies very similar to American Angus Assn. What's holding CIH,NH,Agco & Vermeer etc.from following suit?


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD and the Angus beef have both done well at advertiseing but does it really make the product any better?Advertiseing helps sell their products it does not make them any better then they are.

Heck I prefer a corn fed Holstien Beef before angus beef anyday.And I've proved that to many people selling them Hol beef to butcher.But certified angus sure gets the hype,great marketing on their part.


----------



## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

This is just my opinion based on nothing but what I have seen over the last 45 years. Back in the 1960's JD began whipping their dealer organization into what JD felt was best for JD. It has served JD, the company, well over the years. Other manufacturers were slow to follow and are still trying to push their dealer orgainizations in the same direction.

JD equipment is no better and no worse than their competition. As one service engineer from NH told me once, "no one has a monopoly on good ideas". The dealer is the difference maker. It does not matter how good the product is or how big the dealership is, if the customer can not get service, parts, or information on how to operate the equipment the company and product suffers.

What Deere also excels at is marketing. It is a common joke among implement dealers that JD is a marketing company that happens to sell farm equipment.


----------



## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

Back to the original topic/question.

I would look for something like this:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/grd/5083126810.html


----------



## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The 848 is a pretty good little baler. Check the apron chain for broken links and if it has rubber coated rolls also check that the rubber is not pealing off. Either problem is a deal brearker. The rubber covered stipper roll will probably have some rubber missing under the chains, which is common. There should just not be any loose rubber anywhere else. I would also take a tire air pressure gauge along and check the air pressure in the air bags. If you can get the people to air them up and you can wait an hour or two in between air pressure checks, it will let you know if you have a bad air bag, which is pricey.

The 850 in its day was a good baler. It would not make a tight bale but at least you could bale the hay which the belt balers at that time had great difficulty doing unless the conditions were absolutely perfect.

The other thing about a chain baler is it takes alot less HP than a belt baler. How big is the tractor you plan to use with it?

Are you planning on using the hay or selling it? If you are wanting to sell than you might want to look at a small belt baler. The appearence of the bales will be better. I would think a NH 640 belt baler would be close to your price range.


----------



## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

i knew i would get it started. the man asked for opinions he got mine and i stand by it.


----------



## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

Krone KR160, they are cheap, you can bale fast, simple to work on and makes a relatively light and easy to handle bale. Plus being in SC you are close to the parts warehouse so if you did need parts it wouldn't be a long wait.


----------



## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

An 850 New Holland make a 5.5' X5.5' that was not very tight. I would be concerned about parts as this baler was made in the 70s,7/74 to 7/78 Messick's still lists parts so I guess they are available.


----------



## Westcliffe01 (Feb 16, 2015)

I bought a Hesston 540 (makes a 4x4 round bale) this last winter. It was immaculate, had been stored indoors all of its life and hardly used at all. I looked at similar models in about an 80 mile radius and everything I looked at needed immediate work, replacement parts, new belts and more often than not - new tires immediately. The one I bought was $7500 and had electric twine wrap and the remote control system to mount on the tractor. I also got several sealed packages of twine. I doubt I would have saved any money going with one of the cheaper balers and I know that belts alone are $1500 at least, and that is before one gets into chains, sprockets and all of the small parts.

We have had so much rain this season, that while I have baled some hay, it was more for the purpose of getting hay out the field that had been rained on for 10 days at a time... Total loss so far on first cutting.

Do make sure that you get the operator manual for your baler before using it. The operation of the different balers is not the same. My 540 needs the PTO to be stopped before opening the door, the operation manual says you can damage the machine if you open the door while the PTO is engaged. I notice in watching youtube that many other balers can be unloaded while running the PTO. So make sure how the specific machine needs to be operated and dont assume.

Good luck.


----------



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I appreciate all the information. Answers to several questions that came up: I have a NH TN65 (65 HP) that I would use for baling. I have no livestock so I sell all my hay so tight, nice-looking bales are desirable.


----------



## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Be prepared that if you are buying at or below $5000 for a baler you may spend $2000 or more in parts in no ttime. Unless you fall into the deal of a life time. Personally I like Vermeer they are built tough and in older equipment very important. I will say you must have dealer/parts support NEAR BY no matter what brand. Your issue may ly in your tractor size a RB can throw you around some on hilly land but nine acres shouldn't be too much to Handel. Good luck


----------



## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

In my opinion considering your tractor size, and price range, I would look for a NH 630, 634 or 638. It would match your HP and tractor weight very well. They are very reliable, simple balers. I ran one for a few years when I got started and had no complaints. These balers make a 4X4 bale. If you wanted to spend more money my next choice would be a Vermeer Rebel. BTW I'm a fellow Sandlapper.


----------



## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

65 hp should handle a 5'X4' baler such as Vermeer Rebel 5400,5410 etc,NH 640.644,648,orJD 456,457...,if you are on mostly flat ground.My cousins pull 457s on flat ground with 66hp tractors every year.I pull a 6X5 JD with 77hp although I pull make it slower.As said by Troy Farmer,hills might make you want to go 4X4 as in 630 NH, Vermeer 404 etc.Just make sure parts are local when deciding on brand.There are probably some better than others but parts availability is as much or more.I grew up all Ford and NH(we were that way before they merged) but I now run a JD baler. Can get parts for both in an hour.Like Vermeer but its farther away.


----------



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I appreciate all the information. My hay field is relatively flat so no hilly issues.

I had mentioned previously about the possible availability of a New Holland 850 and had questions about it (bale size, durability, estimated worth) but no one has responded to that. The possible seller is close so I am interested in getting opinions on it.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mekongrabbit said:


> I appreciate all the information. My hay field is relatively flat so no hilly issues.
> I had mentioned previously about the possible availability of a New Holland 850 and had questions about it (bale size, durability, estimated worth) but no one has responded to that. The possible seller is close so I am interested in getting opinions on it.


Between mike10 and jr in va, they covered some of your 850 questions.

My personal opinion would be that if you're willing to spend up to 4k, you should ignore a baler as ancient as an 850. Pertly because the bales are way bigger than you want, way softer than you want, and mostly because it's old as the hills.


----------



## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

I agree with the others, forget about the 850, loose ugly soft bales. I had a neighbor roll some up for me once in a rush with his 850, I couldn't even pick them up with a 3 pt spear they were so loose.

If you really want to stay under $4k I think the 848 might be your best bet. They will make a tight 4x4.5 bale with the air pressure cranked up. You should easily be able to find a clean one in your price range. Replacing air bags, chains, and slats will add up quick so make sure they are in good shape. I think Shoup has all of them if needed for 1/2 the price of NH. If you need air bags go to a local truck repair center instead and cross reference the numbers to a Firestone bag($200 there vs $350 @ Shoup or $650 @ NH) Make sure you can handle the tie system, hydraulic tie will require 2 sets of remotes, electric will require the a monitor/control box. Some also came with netwrap, I would stay away from them. It was a very early netwrap system and can be troublesome from what I hear.

All the 84X balers are not the same. The 848's are the newest before they went to belts and are the best.


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

swmnhay said:


> JD and the Angus beef have both done well at advertiseing but does it really make the product any better?Advertiseing helps sell their products it does not make them any better then they are.
> 
> Heck I prefer a corn fed Holstien Beef before angus beef anyday.And I've proved that to many people selling them Hol beef to butcher.But certified angus sure gets the hype,great marketing on their part.


I should just stay out of the weekly battle about Mother Deere's less than perfect balers .. BUT what the hell it's been about a week since I bashed the Deere balers so time to rant again .. put you Boxing Gloves on again TxJim and let's go.. Show me documented numbers from a independent survive showing that JD balers are #1 anywhere in the would even your great st. TX ? Cy is right Mother Deere like's to draw the young recruits in with Toys T-shrit and shoes and etc etc. because they might be the next loyal subjects to King Deere himelf after all somebody has to buy their over rated overpriced Shit... that DOES NOT make them better than any buddy else...................................................................................................................................................The reason other manufactures do not spend that amount of time and money in the marketing is they invest their money in the R&D and improvement of their equipment.. Then the cheap Bitch that Deere is she lay's in the weeds and wait to try and steal the product technology EXAMPLE.. The Rotatory combine , the seed delivery system on the corn planters, I almost forgot the famous Hydrostatic drive transmission ( I'am quite sure that was developed by IH ) I can keep going But the Brain washed Deereoids refuse to listen to anyone that speaks out against their Queen.. PS don't forget to bow to the King as he pass's by your field


----------



## hay rake (Dec 31, 2011)

if deere balers are so great why does our local deere dealer sell more kuhns than green ones. they may be great in texas but they suck in maine. just an estimate but probably 70-75% balers here are nh. not a lot of vermeer here the dealer is small and not that aggressive, but good balers. he even stocks 4 or 5 balers. deere dealers here don't even stock that many balers 1 maybe 2 but they have 3 kuhn's. nh dealers have 4 minimum some have 8 or 10. they stock em because they can sell em. wow this is fun


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Why is this Deere thing still going on? I didn't join haytalk for this.


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Why is this Deere thing still going on? I didn't join haytalk for this.


Maybe because there are some members than can't except the fact that some other members don't care for the JD round balers and they continually repeat themselves about just because there are a lot in a area that must automatically make them the best nation wide or maybe even world wide


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Why is this Deere thing still going on? I didn't join haytalk for this.


A lot of members here like Krone tedders and mowers. Not long ago I remember someone calling this forum a Krone Cult.

There is one member here who is vocal about Vermeer balers being no good. That is his opinion and does not bother me being a Vermeer owner.

I did not join Hay Talk under the impression that opinions should only reflect positively on the brands I own.


----------



## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

snowball said:


> Maybe because there are some members than can't except the fact that some other members don't care for the JD round balers and they continually repeat themselves about just because there are a lot in a area that must automatically make them the best nation wide or maybe even world wide


In my part of the world mother Deere is queen and king, I can't say she's the best because I have not owned the others but I can say my last 4 balers have been Deere and I have been completely satisfied. I would love to try out another brand to see how much better they might be but service is king and with 7 Deere dealers within an hour or so drive from me i can normally get anything I need.


----------



## jr in va (Apr 15, 2015)

jr in va said:


> An 850 New Holland make a 5.5' X5.5' that was not very tight. I would be concerned about parts as this baler was made in the 70s,7/74 to 7/78 Messick's still lists parts so I guess they are available.


I think you said you wanted 4' width so this may help


----------



## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

snowball said:


> Maybe because there are some members than can't except the fact that some other members don't care for the JD round balers and they continually repeat themselves about just because there are a lot in a area that must automatically make them the best nation wide or maybe even world wide


Can I keep my John Deere flag? How bout the green t shirts and kool aid for me and the young'n.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

snowball said:


> I should just stay out of the weekly battle about Mother Deere's less than perfect balers .. BUT what the hell it's been about a week since I bashed the Deere balers so time to rant again .. put you Boxing Gloves on again TxJim and let's go......................................................................................................................


Snowball

Don't you have a wife or girlfriend you can try to pick an argument with?? Enough said!!!!!!! Good bye!

Jim


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Tim/South said:


> A lot of members here like Krone tedders and mowers. Not long ago I remember someone calling this forum a Krone Cult.
> 
> There is one member here who is vocal about Vermeer balers being no good. That is his opinion and has does not bother me being a Vermeer owner.
> 
> I did not join Hay Talk under the impression that opinions should only reflect positively on the brands I own.


X2


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> Snowball
> 
> Don't you have a wife or girlfriend you can try to pick an argument with?? Enough said!!!!!!! Good bye!
> 
> Jim


It's all in fun TxJim all in fun .. I like reading your post as you do have alot of good info about JD Eq. I just think your very loyal to the Deere balers (That"s OK ) those balers just aren't for everyone is all... May be it's time for a group......I think you can keep your JD Flag Bonfire.. but the other Flag they say has to go I guess


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

As I previously stated I own/buy what I think suits my needs the best as I only own 3 pieces of JD equipment. A JD 4255(owned since '93) which IMHO is one of the best tractors JD ever put their logo on,a 467 rd baler & 347 sq baler. My other tractors are Kubota & Ford,my hay rake is a 14 wheel H&S hi-cap, my disc cutters are Vermeer & Krone !!!!!!!!!!!! I have NO JD FLAG PERIOD.

I can take fun poked at me BUT the one doing the "poking fun at me" needs to expect it to come flying back.

I firmly believe that JD quality control is not what it was yrs ago so I hope that makes you feel better!!!!

Jim


----------



## MikeinKy (Feb 27, 2012)

TXjim, I must agree that you have one of the best tractors, and balers that Deere made. A neighbor bleeds green and out of about 20 tractors, his 4055 and 4255 are his favorites. I am a poor kentuckian and have to get by with a 4430, a couple of 4020's and a 2510 and about 10 others of various makes.


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> As I previously stated I own/buy what I think suits my needs the best as I only own 3 pieces of JD equipment. A JD 4255(owned since '93) which IMHO is one of the best tractors JD ever put their logo on,a 467 rd baler & 347 sq baler. My other tractors are Kubota & Ford,my hay rake is a 14 wheel H&S hi-cap, my disc cutters are Vermeer & Krone !!!!!!!!!!!! I have NO JD FLAG PERIOD.
> 
> I can take fun poked at me BUT the one doing the "poking fun at me" needs to expect it to come flying back.
> 
> ...


TxJim you can poke fun I can take it .. LOL I'am a little surprised that you are run'n a Vermeer Cutter.. I total agree with you about the 4255 people think the 4020 was great the 4255 is by far the best tractor ever built ...JMO ....and I'am sure your deere balers work great in your area also they are just not made of the conditions that we have to try and make hay in .. TxJim it's not just JD that the quality control has gone down hill.. I got a 6 week old Case MX 250 that is been a problem Since I got it .. It has serious issues with the hyd. and the scv and cab has to be pulled off and new cab mounts installed and the PTO off out of the tractor the other night while I was big square baling.. NO not just the stub shaft the whole PTO.. The flag statement was for Bonfire


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tex, last time Snowball picked a fight with Snowflake (Mrs Snowball) she put him in a body cast and made him blame one of his cows.


----------



## snowball (Feb 7, 2015)

deadmoose said:


> Tex, last time Snowball picked a fight with Snowflake (Mrs Snowball) she put him in a body cast and made him blame one of his cows.


I was gone to Joke with TX and Say I had both a wife and a GF everyday is a fight with one or the other.. But that' just a bold face lie .. At my age 1 female is sometimes more than I can handle anymore :mellow:


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> Tex, last time Snowball picked a fight with Snowflake (Mrs Snowball) she put him in a body cast and made him blame one of his cows.


Dang and here I thought Mr Snowflake was snowballs.s real name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hey snowball I managed to bale some hay yesterday with my inferior(according to you) JD 467 that was yielding five(4X5.5) rd bales per acre Coastal without one little problem.

FYI 5 bales to the acre is a very good yield per acre for N.Central Tx.


----------



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm glad everyone is having fun. I have been taking information that you folk have shared and have followed up with some research. Small balers are scarce in this area. The is a 1998 New Idea 4845 Round Baler for sale some 160 miles from me. The photos look good; it is described as follows: 5X4 Bale

Automatic Twine Tie
Well Maintained 
New Top Belts & Lacings
$4800

New Idea apparently is not a prevalent brand around here (and as many of you have declared, availability of parts and service is paramount). Have any of you had experience with a New Idea 4845? If so, what is the good, bad, and ugly?

There is a New Holland 630 (4x4) with electric tie for $5,500 located about the same distance away. I talked with my local (20 miles away) Deere dealer about a 335 (as a couple of you suggested might work). He checked around and called me back. Within the Deere system, there are only three listed--the closest in VA, priced at $7,500.

Another suggestion from Forum readers was a Krone KR 160. There is a 2006 KR160B for sale at a dealer about 200 miles away. It is a twine wrap and has about 4,000 bales on it; priced at $7,000.

The closest baler for sale is a Hesston 5500 priced at $3,000. It is about 30 miles away.


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Re: 4845. Run the other direction. Those New Idea balers with the backwards dimensions (the bales are 5x4, NOT 4x5) are just not a fun piece to run. The best part is the bales get stuck in the baler. Second best, if you run them to the pressure the monitor tells you to stop at, you'll have softie bales. If you ignore the monitor and make a good bale, it takes a 100hp tractor blowing smoke to do it.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

snowball said:


> TxJim you can poke fun I can take it .. LOL I'am a little surprised that you are run'n a Vermeer Cutter.


I bought the Vermeer cutter used several yrs back & it's getting a little tired. I like the cutterbar design(modular) and the quick change blades. I just bought 1st of this week but haven't cut with yet a Krone AM283S on a caddy that was advertised as having cut less than 500 acres(green paint remains on cutterbar). My neighbor has a Krone and stated they're good cutting machines so I guess I test it out. BTW Krone cutter is pea green not JD(Kelly) green. :lol:


----------



## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

mekongrabbit said:


> I'm glad everyone is having fun. I have been taking information that you folk have shared and have followed up with some research. Small balers are scarce in this area. The is a 1998 New Idea 4845 Round Baler for sale some 160 miles from me. The photos look good; it is described as follows: 5X4 Bale
> 
> Automatic Twine Tie
> Well Maintained
> ...


You are going to save a lot of money and have a lot more options if you expand your search outside of dealers. Craigslist has improved their search options tremendously.


----------



## mekongrabbit (Apr 15, 2010)

I have been looking on Craigslist and other internet sites, as well as dealer sites. Like I previously stated: there just are not many small round balers available in this area. I am in the middle of horse country where many folk prefer small square bales. I have done that and will not go back to it. It's too labor intensive and I don't have the storage area in my barn. I appreciate all the suggestions.


----------



## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

Not a NH 630!!! It possibly takes the cake as the worst baler of all time. It is a price baler, horrible bale starting, terrible tie system and non greasable bearings. I don't know why nobody else is telling you to look at Krone round balers. When my parents started doing round bales back in the late 90s my dad got a NH 630, what a hunk of junk. He then got a Deutz GP 2.30 that we picked up at an auction, never baled with it because we traded the two on our first KR 125 Krone. It is night and day better then the NH 630, no comparison. You can bale dry or silage, it's simple, compact and has a good tie system. I really think you should take a look at them, if not just go try to bale 5 bales with a 630/638 then go use a Krone. 
125/130 are 4x4 balers, the 160 is the 4x5.


----------

