# Swath width



## JamesIII (Jul 25, 2008)

Most of the research coming out of universities is saying to lay the hay out in as wide as swath as possible with your mower/conditioner. My m/c will leave a wider swath than I can get under the tractor. Is the drying advantage worth driving one wheel on the newly cut swath? In eastern Iowa first cutting is almost always layed on to damp ground, not to sure I want to moosh the hay into the soil. How do you guys handle your swath width. Thanks JamesIII


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

never drive on hay - run your wheels on the tractor out as far as possible, but don't drive on hay.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Production Acres said:


> never drive on hay - run your wheels on the tractor out as far as possible, but don't drive on hay.


The hired man was cutting one day with mower/cond and the wind came up to 40+.The windrows blew over about 4 feet so he drove rite down the windrow on the return pass with the tractor wheels on about 20 acres.GRRRR Had a hard time raking it back up what a mess.Actually had to raked it twice.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

yea, never drive on hay. If you drive on freshly cut hay, it'll pack and smash and then it'll never dry. Lay out the swath so it just fits under the tractor. Depending on the rake or tedder, it might not pick up driven on hay...

Rodney


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

The last few years on first cutting with wet Indiana soils, I have laid swath as *narrow* as possible out of the mower. Try to mow as early in the day as possible and then use the tedder by early afternoon to spread hay full width. Works great on our 13' cut. This keeps windrow out from under tractor tires, and it gives about 80% of the ground area to dry off for a few hours and still takes advantage of wide swathing advantages.


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## HALLSHAY (Nov 30, 2008)

Never ever drive on hay if you can avoid it. We took a set of 216 NH rakes and swapped the baskets and basket frames. We have a forward vee and can fold our wide swaths back narrow. We can then either bale singles, or come back and straddle one and double rake them back. It takes an extra trip, but we can move pretty fast with the backward rake. We start with 18's, so we probably have more room to work than most guys. We normally only lay 1st out wide, and then fold it back together after a couple of days.


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

These questions can not be answered without knowing where a person lives.

When I started hay making for profit on our farm in Central iowa we ahd an old NH 469 without a swath gate so all of our hay was put in tight windrows. That was a BAD idea!!! We had a tough time getting the hay dry since we had a very small portion o fthe hay subjected to direct sunlight. When I talked with my friend in the West they did not see a problem with this, but they worked in a dry environment and can control the 'rain' through irrigation.

The data supporting the use of extreme wide swatsh from Undersander et al. at Wisconsin is extremetly compelling and the practices shared by Haybaler1 is a practical way of achieving this without driving over hay. We do not have a tedder right now so we achieved a wide swath from our NH 499 by making the swath about 6 feet wide, since our tires have 64 inches of clearance we are driving over a small portion of the outside of the windrows.

When we acquire a tedder we plan to follow the same practice as Haybaler1 of making a tight windrow then spreading it over the ground. Thiw will achieve two goals. First the tight windrow will expose the bare groud to sun light which will remove the moisture from the surface and warm it, then following with a tedder will follow the advice of Undersander of spreading out the hay as far as possible.

Jim


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## Wrenchbender (Dec 4, 2008)

I'll agree with what's been said. Driving on the windrow smashes it down.

I also run my windrows in tight on the first cutting or if the ground is extra wet. If you are in a high humidity area a tedder is a tool you can't be without! WB<><.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Undersander was a speaker at our Mich. State Forage Technology Conference back in March and gave this exact talk and I asked him about the tire traffic issue and I think he stated what most operators due is if they have to it was best to still lay out as wide as possible and then have one wheel on the edge of the swath. I believe the consensus was that it was still better to lay out wide and drive on part of the row rather then narrow the row. I am in Michigan, typically pretty high humidity for first cutting, and whenever I thought maybe it would be a good idea to lay it in rows so the soil could dry out it was a very bad idea. It has always worked out better to have minimum wheel traffic.


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## JoshA (Apr 16, 2008)

Using a pull-type I did both wide and narrow swaths depending on crop/weather/season. This meant driving over the swath at cutting time and raking time, with BIG tires (710 metrics). To stop that, we got a self propelled discbine, no more driving on the swaths at cutting time. Will probably use our little tractor (85hp MFWD) for raking as it can JUST fit between the rows for twin raking (15' header leaves 8' swaths).

Haven't had problems raking up driven over swaths, even on my headlands which get cut first and raked last. Did have an issue with the 12' pull-type that the swaths wouldn't get fully flipped up/over since there was no space between the swaths (only 130cm max). No problem now with the bigger header (bigger space between swaths, both swaths get flipped and onto dry ground).

My question for you that say neigh to driving on down hay, how do you go about raking a tedded crop?


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

JoshA said:


> Using a pull-type I did both wide and narrow swaths depending on crop/weather/season. This meant driving over the swath at cutting time and raking time, with BIG tires (710 metrics). To stop that, we got a self propelled discbine, no more driving on the swaths at cutting time. Will probably use our little tractor (85hp MFWD) for raking as it can JUST fit between the rows for twin raking (15' header leaves 8' swaths).
> 
> Haven't had problems raking up driven over swaths, even on my headlands which get cut first and raked last. Did have an issue with the 12' pull-type that the swaths wouldn't get fully flipped up/over since there was no space between the swaths (only 130cm max). No problem now with the bigger header (bigger space between swaths, both swaths get flipped and onto dry ground).
> 
> My question for you that say neigh to driving on down hay, how do you go about raking a tedded crop?


We use a light tractor (75 hp, 6000 lbs) and ground will be much drier after hay has been cut for 2 to 3 days before raking.


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## Wrenchbender (Dec 4, 2008)

Wet hay smashes down and sticks together. Dry hay bounces back and is picked up by the rake imediately. When you lay the windrow out wide you have to drive on the hay to rake it also. WB<><.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

For the Grower in the Humid East.
Here is the rule(s)
When the hay is first cut the stoma on the underside of the leaves are wide open. Through these hole 30% of the moisture leaves the plant. Problem is the that plant has to be in direct sunshine for the stoma to stay open. Ipso Facto hay under other hay the looses this avenue for getting rid of moisture. 
The second way for moisture to leave the hay is for the direct rays of the sun to heat the sap. This creates a vapor pressure and this steam forces moisture out any opening available. This is where hay conditioning shines. You will find tire tracks on hay has a marginal effect. There is more to gain by covering as much of the ground with hay that is practical. 
Now as the day progresses the forage is accumulating carbohydrates. When the hay is cut this stops. The object is to cut the hay early enough so there is a minimum of respiration during the night but the maximum of accumulated sugars. Where you are will determine this timing. They tell me in Idaho the nights become so cold there is very little respiration with hay that is cut when it is just dark. Here I must be finished cuttiong an hour after the sun's highest elevation of the day. Then by dark the hay is cured down to +/- 48% moisture and there is a minimum of respiration. 
In the humid east climate 75% of hay curing is accomplished by the sun. 
Here the plan is to cut the hay with a full swath. If it will be 2 Tons/A or better run the tedder right behind the mower conditioner. The next day leave the hay alone. The following day after that rake the hay, at first light. Counting the day cut as day 1 we plan to bale with the humidity on day 4. If I were still baling at night I would bale with the humidity the third night. 
There are variations to this program depending on time of year, yield, and sunshine.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

hay wilson in TX said:


> For the Grower in the Humid East.
> Here is the rule(s)
> When the hay is first cut the stoma on the underside of the leaves are wide open. Through these hole 30% of the moisture leaves the plant. Problem is the that plant has to be in direct sunshine for the stoma to stay open. Ipso Facto hay under other hay the looses this avenue for getting rid of moisture.
> The second way for moisture to leave the hay is for the direct rays of the sun to heat the sap. This creates a vapor pressure and this steam forces moisture out any opening available. This is where hay conditioning shines. You will find tire tracks on hay has a marginal effect. There is more to gain by covering as much of the ground with hay that is practical.
> ...


Mr. Wilson, you are correct. Tire traffic on hay has minimal effect, but tire tracks on hay with very wet soils (which looks very promising again this year) can be detrimental to the hay.


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## Production Acres (Jul 29, 2008)

In TN, we have a complilation of problems, mountains block the sun, trees block the sun, high humidity, lots of heat showers in the summer. Tedding the hay is a must - even alfalfa. Wet spring soil poses a different problem, and we believe that one must almost leave the hay in the swath for a day (or at least a couple good hours of sun) before tedding to allow the ground to dry a little - especially on heavy hay, before you tedd it back out. And on thick hay, it will have to be tedded every day until it is baled to fluff it back up as just the dew each night will have it plastered back to the ground each morning. We try to start tedding right as teh dew leaves the field each day. Conversly, in the late summer, if the ground is dry enough, we can achieve much better yeild and better hay without tedding at all, but the ground has to be dry - maybe even cracking;.) 
Yes self-propelled swathers are a big deal adn make a big difference on getting the hay on the ground and in good shape. We used to use pull behind cutters. Then went to a JD swather. Upgraded to a Krone Big M last year. It hasn't got the JD beat for comfort(even though it is an older JD cab), but it will flat put hay on the ground. Leaves very little footprint, and you are driving on very little hay at all. We tedd hay with a Krone 50' tedder. Once again, 1 tractor for every 50', very little footprint on the hay itself. The nicest thing about the tedder is that you can tedd hay across a muddy section of the field without putting ruts in it as you have a 25' wing to swing across teh wet section without putting the tractor across it.


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## JamesIII (Jul 25, 2008)

I went over to the Case IH dealer and talked to them about moving the wheels out on my 1066. He thought the axels would not have a problem but, they were a little concerned about the pressure it would put on the outer axel bearings. I used to run duals all the time, I would have thought there were many times the weight of the tractor was on the outside dual only so I don't know if that logic makes sense. I think I am going to move the rim to the inside mounting ring and then move the hub out a to achieve a total of 1 foot more clearance. That would give me a total of 71" between rear tires. Thanks for the comments. JamesIII


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## ButchAutomatic (Jun 4, 2008)

Watch how wide you move your tires, if you bale with same tractor there is a limit to outside width for turning. Just from experence


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