# Dust in the Hay - Question



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I was reading a bit today regarding horse hay and the author of the article mentioned several times mold/dust from hay setting in the windrow.

I realize that if you're hay sets to long on the ground, is not conditioned and/or tedded - moved around in some way after cutting, mold can begin to form.

But how quickly can dust from hay setting in the windrow form? What is the rule of thumb/time frame that tells you are asking for trouble?

A couple of years ago, I had an equipment failure and couldn't bale a bit of hay. It got rained on repeatedly and probably took 10 days to get up. I kept turning it to keep it aerated and drying out from the rain until I could bale. Finally when I got it up, it was dry, but as bleached as straw. It also had a GREAT fresh baled hay smell. I was very surprised at this. It absolutely didn't show any signs of dust. Still I sold it as "goat" hay. The buyers were delighted with the quality of the hay, inspite of everything. Made me think I should have asked more $ for it - LOL!

However, last year I baled a small piece of hay field, after work during the week. Time was limited to about an hour or so and baled on two consecutive days. The 50 or so bales I made on the first day had dust - weeks later. I microwaved a hay sample and was at 17-18 ish moisture and outwardly the hay looked and felt OK. Second day, baled the same amount and it was perfect. Didn't take a humidity reading in it since it had a day longer to dry. Neither day's hay get any dew as I quit before it could form.

I attribute the first day's hay being somewhat dusty to residual stem moisture. None of the hay was conditioned, but all was tedded.

So to my original question, has anyone experienced dust from hay just setting in the windrow?

I'm thinking hay that is simply baled with to high moisture, or parts of the hay content with to high moisture, like stems or legumes cause dust after baled up and setting in the barn for several weeks vs anything going on in the windrow.

I'm talking square bales. What's you're experience?

Just curious.

Thanks,
Bill


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I've had it mold in the windrow like you mentioned, usually in heavier spots or if it's been raining and couldn't kick it......
I can't bale Bermuda grass at 17-18% by my meter (agritronix) it's a gamble that won't pay off....I need to see 15 and lower consistently. Dust will appear if I bale around 15-16....that's my meter, yours may be diff.....I don't use a microwave, well occasionally I do to heat up my coffee but that's about it. Did it once, wife didn't appreciate it....not sure if it was the grass that was left in the microwave or the trail of dirt on the floor from the boots but either way it was the last time for me.....


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I agree with dawg I won't bale hay if it's over 15% moisture. I never cut hay and leave in a windrow as I only own flat cutters. I do think hay cut and left in a windrow can mold/mildew if conditions are right such as cloudy or high humidity..


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've had dust occur from:

1) Tedder digging into the dirt.

2) Having your rake set too low to the ground or too much down pressure on a wheel rake.

3) Raking with too much dew on the crop.

4) Having the baler pickup teeth gouging the dirt.

Just some thoughts.

Ralph


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

How low is your baler set ? 2-3" is the lowest for alfalfa on a 4" cut...you can bale under for grasses....I Think (Now I'm not "Johnny Baler" ) You've got a baler issue when picking up. If the tines are hitting the ground and your ambient is arid , there's your dust...We are talking about soil dust right ? Not white mold dust.......Ralph's on the mark also if it's soil dust.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> .I don't use a microwave, well occasionally I do to heat up my coffee but that's about it. Did it once, wife didn't appreciate it....not sure if it was the grass that was left in the microwave or the trail of dirt on the floor from the boots but either way it was the last time for me.....


Yep. Kinda like the time I used my wife's Paula Dean cookie sheet to heat up some welding rods in the oven. Womenfolk tend to get persnickety about such things....


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Tater Salad said:


> How low is your baler set ? 2-3" is the lowest for alfalfa on a 4" cut...you can bale under for grasses....I Think (Now I'm not "Johnny Baler" ) You've got a baler issue when picking up. If the tines are hitting the ground and your ambient is arid , there's your dust...We are talking about soil dust right ? Not white mold dust.......Ralph's on the mark also if it's soil dust.


Definitely not soil dust. I cut for a high stubble and set the pickup on the rake, tedder and baler high too.

I think I'm going to put a moisture meter on my baler this year so I can monitor the moisture as I bale. Probably will add propionic acid applicator too.

The hay that got dust in hindsight, was a victim of not being conditioned and my guess is that residual stem moisture caused the dust.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Learning a lot here....good subject!

Now what else can you put in the microwave that makes the wife mad????


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

They's a bunch of them JD......I ain't even gonna clue you in for fear of repercussions from your wife


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

leeave96 said:


> Definitely not soil dust. I cut for a high stubble and set the pickup on the rake, tedder and baler high too.
> I think I'm going to put a moisture meter on my baler this year so I can monitor the moisture as I bale. Probably will add propionic acid applicator too.
> The hay that got dust in hindsight, was a victim of not being conditioned and my guess is that residual stem moisture caused the dust.


That's a good idea and thought. I have to leave T85 grass out to dry a bit longer because of stem moisture, most Bermuda grasses have smaller stems. T85 on the other hand has large stems. I have two meters, one to use in the windrow (or by punching a bale out) and one in the cab so I can make sure the two Jive.......


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

Well I just gave him advise on the wrong problem and he burned his Wife's microwave up...I'm done.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Tater Salad said:


> Well I just gave him advise on the wrong problem and he burned his Wife's microwave up...I'm done.


You assume the Wife owns the microwave.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I get occasional white dust in bales that were (I thought) baled under 15% and I don't know why. I know the moisture meter in the applicator isn't a 100% guarantee, but I wish I could be more of a guarantee.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> I get occasional white dust in bales that were (I thought) baled under 15% and I don't know why. I know the moisture meter in the applicator isn't a 100% guarantee, but I wish I could be more of a guarantee.


You're in PA........It's called "Snow"


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tater Salad said:


> You're in PA........It's called "Snow"


No!! I'm in PA & DE!!!!

That way I can be a "yankee" and a "rebel" !!!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> They's a bunch of them JD......I ain't even gonna clue you in for fear of repercussions from your wife


Smart man.

I saw her light up a guy doing the "gypsy" routine on her in Rome.

Holy crap...dude never knew what hit him....

Sorry Im off topic. Now back to hay dust! lol


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

From what I can tell, grasses always have mold spores on them, they are fighting them while alive and keep it in check. When we cut the hay the plant can only fight the mold so long. Luckily the mold is on the surface which is the first place to dry but moisture from the interior is still coming out through the surface and can re wet it. As soon as that surface is about 15%, the mold growth starts up at a rate proportional to the temperature. Colder means slower growth.

So once moved from windrow to bale, moisture can't easily get off the outer surfaces and the surfaces climb to over 15%, this is where the density and distance to an outside surface matters between bale types and storage configuration. An individual small square with good ventilation gives up a fair amount of moisture, a big square high density bale packed into a pile is pretty much locked in at the moisture content during baling.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

In addition to mold and dirt, there is another thing that can cause dust: ash.

Ash is usually the crop residue of old leafs that dies prior to cutting and can be picked up while raking/baling.

E.g. OG will sometimes pick up a fungus (I forget the name right off hand) that causes leaves to die. These dead leafs from the fungus, or the dead leafs on the first cutting from last year will shatter and can get ground up pretty fine. So much so, that they look like dust.

Just another thought.

Ralph


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I was well past 65 before I learned that DRY hay can mold, and how.

Usually it was due to stem moisture. But we can also get mold from baling fully dried hay while the Relative Humidity was above a 70% RH &/or RBs baled while the relative humidity is still above 65% RH as measured down next to the windrow.

Now I do purposely rake some hay with a surface dew on the windrow or swath. I purposely do this to get moisture inside the windrow so when the humidity is too low to bale there will still be enough surface moisture to save the leaves. This will allow me to bale after the humidity is tooooo low to save the leaves.

Later in my life is when I learned fully cured hay will mold when baled much above a 70% relative humidity, down next to the hay. Make that 65% RH for larger more dense bales.

A wheel rake is easier to put soil particles in side the bales. It is almost as easy to accomplish this with a roll bar rake or Rotory rake. This can be avoided if all are awake during raking. I know a few Custom Harvesters who do a better job of baling, IF their Wife Does the raking.
There is no reason for the baler to kick dirt up into the hay, if the machine is adjusted, and as long as the ground is not full of clods of dirt.

Still inadvertent Stuff can happen.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

70% RH the equilibrium moisture content of hay vs air is pretty high and the surfaces of the plant will be wet enough to support mold growth.

For different species of wood there are relationship charts of air RH to wood moisture content. They probably exist for types of hay too.



hay wilson in TX said:


> Later in my life is when I learned fully cured hay will mold when baled much above a 70% relative humidity, down next to the hay. Make that 65% RH for larger more dense bales.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Forage Management
Ed Rayburn, Extension Forage Agronomist January 2002
PROPER HANDLING AND CURING OF HAY1

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

& This does compute. What we have is the entire hay plant is stem snapping dry at sunset.
During the night the dew dampens the leaves but only slightly dampens the stems.

They bale the hay with an average 18% moisture, the stems are still close to 10% moisture and the leaves are close to 30% moisture. The surface moisture is quick and easy to dissipate from the hay in the bale.

This moisture fairly easily evaporates from the leaves from small square bales. Round Bales have more distance for the moisture to travel to escape the bale. The same goes for Large Square Bales.

The growers in the Arid West seldom have enough humidity to qualify for baling with out adding outside moisture. Some spray the windrows, some inject water into the windrows, and now they have a steam jenny to humidify the hay as it goes into the baler.

In the humid Climates they may go days or weeks before the humidity will be low enough to support hay baling with out molding. They NEED to inject a antifungal into the bale to prevent the hay molding.

Really this is just so simple that even I can understand.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Forage ManagementEd Rayburn, Extension Forage Agronomist January 2002PROPER HANDLING AND CURING OF HAY1http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf& This does compute. What we have is the entire hay plant is stem snapping dry at sunset.During the night the dew dampens the leaves but only slightly dampens the stems.They bale the hay with an average 18% moisture, the stems are still close to 10% moisture and the leaves are close to 30% moisture. The surface moisture is quick and easy to dissipate from the hay in the bale.This moisture fairly easily evaporates from the leaves from small square bales. Round Bales have more distance for the moisture to travel to escape the bale. The same goes for Large Square Bales.The growers in the Arid West seldom have enough humidity to qualify for baling with out adding outside moisture. Some spray the windrows, some inject water into the windrows, and now they have a steam jenny to humidify the hay as it goes into the baler.In the humid Climates they may go days or weeks before the humidity will be low enough to support hay baling with out molding. They NEED to inject a antifungal into the bale to prevent the hay molding.Really this is just so simple that even I can understand.


I've read all the WVU publications on hay - good stuff. I live within minutes to the West Virginia line in the mountains bordering VA and WVA. Of all the universities to be writing about hay production, the last I would have guessed would have been WVU -LOL I would have figured Penn State or some Midwest state where it is broad and flat, vs our finicky weather mountains! Not at all a dig, just an observation from a close WV neighbor.

One thing the publicitations don't address with small bales - and maybe I've missed it. Rehydration within the bale and on the surface of the bale. In the spring, fall and even summer - we can have some very cool nights. I've seen night time temps in the mountains in August in the upper 40's and low 50's. Cold enough you can see you're breath. As you can imagine, the humidity and dew is very heavy. It would seen to me that if hay can dry with low humidity, it can also rehydrate somewhat after baling with high humidity and with it, offer mold enough moisture to make the bale somewhat dusty - not carlemized brown, but enough dust that it kills a horse hay sale. IMHO - it's a no win situation - in the cooler air/high humidity/mountains where I'm at.

I guess my strategy is to minimize the potential for dust via conditioning, tedding and probably propionic acid.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

Bill


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Forage Management
> Ed Rayburn, Extension Forage Agronomist January 2002
> PROPER HANDLING AND CURING OF HAY1
> 
> ...


As I Stated on another topic , I spent most of my life in Texas and the last time I did hay was in Texas. This article is on the mark......The hardest thing for me to re-learn here in Delaware is (hay-wise) the whole practice is the opposite. Back home you cut in the evening and baled in the morning ... You HAD to have the dew in West Texas......Here the hay cart would be in flames before you got near the barn baling that way !!!! hahaha !!!!!! And that's just for starters ,That's how I found this website...whole different world ! Every region is unique I guess , You gotta find an old-timer to guide you and inject some Ag College research to give you an edge........or go to "HayTalk" !


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