# Alfalfa an to much rain



## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

My alfalfa an orchard grass not doing to well, way to much rain I think . 1st cutting barely making 1 an half tons per acre . Little patch of timothy and alfalfa made only 211 square bales where last year made 350 to 400 bales . In eastern Indiana. Whats everyone else doing ?


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Our yields have been down in Eastern Ohio too. I think the spring was just to cool. The grasses didn't get enough growth before they started to reach maturity.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Finished 24 acres of OG yesterday. Normal yield runs about 50 tons. This year about 35 tons. Field looked good, but not much leaf on it.

I think Ohiohay is on to something.

Ralph


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

1st cut alfalfa yields were off 10 to 25%, quality was off another 10 to 25%. Simply too much rain following a fall and winter that were way to dry. The quality was down because the excess rain had basically diluted the nutrients in the plant. Alfalfa and orchardgrass stands made about 50% of last year. Orchardgrass all died last fall, no rain when it should have been growing and building reserves for winter. Had another 70 acres of alfalfa that died from "iron toxicity" and the corn looks great on it. The price is going to go way up on hay this year.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Haybaler, I like the "iron toxicity" LOL. That happened to some of mine. My OG ran 3.5 tons/ac. Alfalfa/og ran right at 3 tons/ac. My second cut of straight alfalfa ran.5 tons/ac. after tedding 2 times and raking 2 times. Could not get it dry. That's getting the axe this fall with straight timothy going in after I kill it. I spent more time messing around with a 2o ac field of alfalfa than it took to bale 2oo acres of grass. Now, I'm on 2nd cut og. Got one field that has a lot of ryegrass appear and that's getting the roundup tratment next week after I bale it and going to beans.


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## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

At least with to much rain its Not turning brown and dying. I bet your ponds aren't drying up. If the people south of y'all could take some of it off your hands we would. Some people haven't cut there first cutting Alfalfa yet Because There is nothing to cut.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

In spite of what many will shout from the roof tops, we can get way too much moisture.

The most obvious problem is the crop can simply drown.

What comes to mind is the roots are being starved for air. Not much air in a saturated soil.

Then there is a warehouse full of root diseases that just love wet conditions. 
Here we see phytophthora or wet foot root rot. It is not just for seedling alfalfa established stands are susceptible also. Then there is aphanomyces which can be deadly where found.
I was in a group that were told by Warren Thompson that *IF* you NEED PRR resistance at the HR level that more plants will survive if the variety also has some Aph resistance. 
We proven Warren correct here in 2007 when we experienced a wet year, with extensive and repeated flooding. 
We lost *all* the alfalfa that did not have both HR PRR & some Aph resistance.
At this time we have all one FD 8 variety with HR PRR & R Aph resistance. 
The next alfalfa seed to be purchased will be Arribia II, a FD 6, which has HR resistance to both PRR & Aph as well as a good number of the other resistance traits we believe we need, HERE.

A local observation is alfalfa with some dormancy has less loss to the alfalfa weevil.

Here a FD of 8 or 9 is supposed to be ideal, and a FD 10 possibly will do ok with irrigation. 
Irrigation is not an option, here and now.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Wilson is heading in the right direction far as saturated soils and diseases. But when it comes right down to it, if diseases and saturated soils are causing the problems isn't that the direct result of_ too much rain_?

Personally I think it's a combo of excess moisture and cool conditions, which again leads to disease.

But yah, from what little I've made so far (alfalfa/og mix) yields are definitely down. The OG is tall, but the alfalfa isn't and kind of spindly at that.


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Yep mlappin thats what our alfalfa looks around here , kinda like a second cutting ,fine stem.


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## PA Katahdins (Jul 20, 2010)

Alfalfa is yielding only 1.5 tons per acre when it should be at about 3 tons, old orchard grass is yielding almost double what it normally does though. Sure hope second cutting alfalfa will make up for poor first cutting. Just got another 2 inches of rain last night with another 3 inches forecasted in the next 2 weeks.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I had not noticed a yield drop on the straight OG, but the alfalfa and timothy is another story. We have only done 1 field of timothy right now, but on 10 acres it was down about 35%. I do not have exact numbers on straight alfalfa, but in newer fields, the stand looks thin and not tall at all, and it is all lodged. I'm betting that yield is down by 35% or so as well.

Rodney


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I started last week on the clay and noticed some yield drop. Got 74 round bales off of 18 acres total. Which is roughly 4 bales to the acre, normally I get 6-7. Was all standing yet no problem.

Mowed some sand yesterday and today and not only does it appear to be heavy, it's flatter than a pancake. Was very happy to have the discbine instead of my old mower.

The alfalfa on the clay looks to be healthy enough but just stunted. I'm wondering if it's a combination of the clay holding way too much moisture and not warming up as fast this spring as the sandier ground would have.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> . I'm wondering if it's a combination of the clay holding way too much moisture and not warming up as fast this spring as the sandier ground would have.


Not warming up---I think you might be on to something there. I wonder if anybody's done studies on growth and ground temperature?

Ralph


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

hay wilson in TX said:


> The most obvious problem is the crop can simply drown...
> Here we see phytophthora or wet foot root rot. It is not just for seedling alfalfa established stands are susceptible also. Then there is aphanomyces which can be deadly where found.
> I was in a group that were told by Warren Thompson that *IF* you NEED PRR resistance at the HR level that more plants will survive if the variety also has some Aph resistance.
> We proven Warren correct here in 2007 when we experienced a wet year, with extensive and repeated flooding.
> ...


You are correct that alfalfa under very wet conditions can drown. We successfully, and unintentionally, proved that several years in a row in the mid- to late-80's when we initially began working with alfalfa. Only when we decided to try alfalfa on an deep, upland loamy sand were we successful in getting the original AlfaGraze variety to grow and produce in the five ton/acre range. This loamy sand was a Darco soil with four feet of sand to a yellow/red mottled clay- a very well aerated soil, and one that is considered quite droughty.

Your sources may be more up to date than the 2011 Alfalfa Leaflet that I was reading:

http://www.alfalfa.org/pdf/2011NAFAVarietyLeaflet_small.pdf

In this leaflet, Arriba II is indicated as having no Aph resistance, or at least not evaluated. Several varieties with HR to PRR appear to have Aph resistance including:

WL348AP FD 4
55V50 FD 5 (Pioneer)
Magna 601 FD 6 (Dairyland)
Ameristand 801S FD 8 (America's)
Ameristand 802 FD 8 (America's)
(and some others)

The FD 8 varieties are okay for our area. However, one must begin looking for weevil damage much earlier than for the lower FD varieties. During one very mild winter, one of our on-farm alfalfa evaluation sites had a severe weevil infestation in mid-January, and we normally would see alfalfa regrowth initiation in mid-February. The varieties in that evaluation were Amerigraze 702 (FD 7) and GrazeKing (FD 5?). By the way, there were no annual yield differences between these two varieties. The 702 initiated regrowth a bit earlier but the GrazeKing variety caught up in yield by years end on the four different on-farm evaluation sites comparing these two varieties.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Baled the sand today, even though it appeared to heavier and was horribly lodged, still only 4 bales to the acre. I need to load one in the pickup and have the wife run it to the nearest scale so we can get a weight.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I have found the Alfalfa Listings to be helpful but they are not always in agreement with the Corporate data.

Presently Aruba information from NAFA & ABI are in agreement. It is no longer in my preferred listing for HERE. 
Currently there are 3 America's Alfalfa Varieties that are tied in my Convoluted Scoring system.

To the best of my memory they are AmeriStand 444, AmeriStand 407, and Archer III. Each is a compromise and with some differences between them. 
Maybe 6 years ago I tried their AmeriStand 802 for the R resisting rating for Aph to replace WL 442. After planting 4 fields to 802 I happened to look at the Corporate information where Aph resistance is not mentioned. 
Hind sight tells me I should have dug a little deeper. 
Still our Friends in California contend that the less dormant varieties will out yield the more dormant ones. I should have paid more attention to our Friends in New Mexico.

Hairy Peruvian Alfalfa worked just fine here for 20 or more years, until the aphids found us. The earliest Commercial variety I can think of were Apollo varieties. Then Cimarron and Cimarron VR.

I am looking forward to the next Alfalfa Varieties Listing from NAFA to consider my options for the fall 2012 planting.

I did not appreciate the reason for the FD 4's avoiding Alfalfa Weevil damage, HERE but thanks to your knowledge now I do.

I suspect the ability of a variety to go dormant during our summer drought might be an advantage.

To tell the truth coastal bermudagrass is an easier crop to grow & market, HERE. That gives me a marketing edge in the local hay market.

Something I have learned from the organic hay growers. I leave the back swath standing on one of my fields, to keep the beneficial's happy.


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## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

vhaby said:


> You are correct that alfalfa under very wet conditions can drown. We successfully, and unintentionally, proved that several years in a row in the mid- to late-80's when we initially began working with alfalfa. Only when we decided to try alfalfa on an deep, upland loamy sand were we successful in getting the original AlfaGraze variety to grow and produce in the five ton/acre range. This loamy sand was a Darco soil with four feet of sand to a yellow/red mottled clay- a very well aerated soil, and one that is considered quite droughty.
> 
> Your sources may be more up to date than the 2011 Alfalfa Leaflet that I was reading:
> 
> ...


 WL 348 AP is doing very well.on.our wetter ground, well last year was.the.test on.it.we had a wet spring on It and it did very good with little drown out, it also seems to yield good amf is.leafy.and.fine steamed.


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