# Economy PTO ?



## mx113 (Jul 20, 2011)

In the past few weeks, I have traded into a couple of tractors the have the 540E PTO option. I decided yesterday to try it out with the 10 ft disc mower and was really impressed. It was so much quieter in the cab running the tractor at a lower RPM. The tractor has plenty of power. Are there any reasons that this system can't be used to run the MOCO or the baler? Are there any downsides to using this system that I am not aware of? Thanks in advance. Jim


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I think if your tractor operates the pto powered equipment at the ground speed you desire without lugging engine down then utilize E-pto & save fuel.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I'd agree with Jim, but add one point. Be careful of no over revving your equipment via going down hill, usually (or an inexperienced/not knowing operator  ). Some 540 rpm stuff might not take kindly to running at 700-800 rpm  , IMHO.

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Larry

Please explain how over speeding pto happens descending a hill is any more likely than operating in regular drive type pto. Isn't E-pto driven by gears just different gears from regular pto? Please be aware I've never operated a tractor with E-pto & I'm a ""flatlander""!!

Thanks, Jim


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Running at lower RPMs tends to have the drawn implement push you down hill more so than if you're running at higher RPMs coming up to the same hill. Friction, less compression resistance per second, things like that all come into effect. You'll likely be in a higher gear with lower engine speed to keep the same ground speed. This'll cause you to be pushed and pulled easier. Hope this makes sense.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I hadn't considered trans would be in higher gear causing tractor to be much easier for tires to be rolled. Thanks, Jim


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## PaulN (Mar 4, 2014)

I have a 1993 Agco Allis 8630 with economy PTO. It's 120 HP, so it doesn't take that much power to pull a 4x5 round baler, so I've always used the economy mode. To get the 540 PTO speed, the engine runs at 1720, and it works perfect.


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## mx113 (Jul 20, 2011)

The bigger tractor is a deere 6125R weighing in at about 15000 lbs with loaded tires. It would be pulling a deere 630 moco and a deere 460m baler. I am in the hills of East Tennessee so I will definitely have to use common sense as far as lugging up hills or speeding down them. I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't anything that would cause extra wear on strain on the tractor or implements. Haying is finishing up for this year, but I plan to experiment more in the spring. I'm liking the idea of less fuel and less noise. The tractor does have field cruise, which when set limits the motor from reving past a preset rpm, but I do not know if the system is able to control that when the tractor speeds up going downhill.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Ox76 said:


> Running at lower RPMs tends to have the drawn implement push you down hill more so than if you're running at higher RPMs coming up to the same hill. Friction, less compression resistance per second, things like that all come into effect. You'll likely be in a higher gear with lower engine speed to keep the same ground speed. This'll cause you to be pushed and pulled easier. Hope this makes sense.


Well said Ox.

Jim, have you ever pull started a tractor? This might give you an idea of the higher gears make turning the motor easier.  As a kid, I can remember parking on a hill, when the starter/battery was bad (saves towing, if you lucky  ).

Larry


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Larry

Evidently you failed to read my previous post this AM where I stated higher gear going down hill made tires easier to roll.

I've probably tow started more tractors than the average farmer due to previously owing a Ford 3000 tractor. I utilized this 3000 for raking driven by an older person. The fuel gauge on this 3000 was inoperable & this older gentleman would inevitably drive by my fuel storage tank without filling up the tractor fuel tank therefore the tractor while pulling the rake would ""{run out of diesel"". I was very experienced bleeding air from diesel fuel systems BUT that 3000 took the TROPHY for being the most difficult to get engine running after dying from lack of fuel. Long story short after getting disgusted I'd tow start the 3000 & in less than 5' engine was running.

I also participated in tow started many tractors during the 21 yrs I was employed at dealership.


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

I pull a 630 flail moco among other things with a 5105m .......most of the time i will use EPTO and never had a issue with it .....one thing i have noticed due to the higher gearing of EPTO the pto has more of a issue starting things going on machines with a lot of weight to get moving......

i have yet to find something that i cant turn and run in epto .....but i wonder if it could cause some slippage and possible damage of the pto clutches if overloaded


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We used to do the same years ago before anybody heard of "e pto". Modified the shifter in our 55 series Olivers so you could run a 540 stub while in 1000 rpm. Oliver 1855 would run a NH499 haybine or tedder all day long at 1350 engine rpms. Sometimes even ran the NH269 hsyliner the same way in flat fields.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm doing this now running a NH 315 square baler with White 2-105 or 2-110. 1100 engine RPM and baler is happy. Just above an idle is what it feels like and I'm saving quite a bit on fuel. The plunger strokes in a heavy windrow draws the engine down more because higher engine RPMs will govern a load much faster and more accurately.


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## TJ Hendren (May 12, 2017)

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to things like this, but my Ford has a shiftable pto I'm not sure if its a true e-pto but i've run the tedder with it but anything that took any power i went back to regular 540, as it reaches 540 at 1100 rpm in the e mode. To me that was lugging the engine too much.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

Just go by feel and sight and sound and smell. If it sounds and feels kinda bad running things it probably is!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Ox76 said:


> I'm doing this now running a NH 315 square baler with White 2-105 or 2-110. 1100 engine RPM and baler is happy. Just above an idle is what it feels like and I'm saving quite a bit on fuel. The plunger strokes in a heavy windrow draws the engine down more because higher engine RPMs will govern a load much faster and more accurately.


Yah, in heavy hay or really hilly fields we'd shift em back into 540 and run rated RPM's on the engine, seemed to have less issues that way.


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## mx113 (Jul 20, 2011)

I ran the tractor for 15 hours this weekend pulling a bush hog 2815. Tractor ran at 1500 engine rpm to achieve 540 pto with absolutely no issues. Lots of up and down hills and the tractor kept the rpms where they needed to be. I'm surprised this isn't a more popular option on these tractors.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mx113 said:


> I ran the tractor for 15 hours this weekend pulling a bush hog 2815. Tractor ran at 1500 engine rpm to achieve 540 pto with absolutely no issues. Lots of up and down hills and the tractor kept the rpms where they needed to be. I'm surprised this isn't a more popular option on these tractors.


Nice to hear a success/update story. 

Larry


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

mx113 said:


> I ran the tractor for 15 hours this weekend pulling a bush hog 2815. Tractor ran at 1500 engine rpm to achieve 540 pto with absolutely no issues. Lots of up and down hills and the tractor kept the rpms where they needed to be. I'm surprised this isn't a more popular option on these tractors.


Now with the various Tractor Management Systems tractors have, the ePTO is almost moot as the system will chose the most appropriate and economical combination for the task.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Much better running the new tractors at 1500 rpm with the engine designed for power and torque in that range, I don't think the older engines were made to be run with any kind of load at 1100 rpm. Also a tractor like a 6125r has gear selections to work at that engine speed.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

It would interesting to know what JD engineers did to 4.5L engines in todays tractors that allows them to operate at lower RPM's than the recommended operating RPM's of the 4.5L utilized in the mid 70's in a model 2630


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> It would interesting to know what JD engineers did to 4.5L engines in todays tractors that allows them to operate at lower RPM's than the recommended operating RPM's of the 4.5L utilized in the mid 70's in a model 2630


you can do a lot with turbos and injection mapping ......but this is a great read on that specific engine line

https://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2011/feature/engine/6030p_7030p/6030p_engines_power_ratings_specifications.html


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Starting in '83 2750 with 4.5L had a turbo-charger


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Tx Jim said:


> It would interesting to know what JD engineers did to 4.5L engines in todays tractors that allows them to operate at lower RPM's than the recommended operating RPM's of the 4.5L utilized in the mid 70's in a model 2630


First off, I'm not a big fan of lugging engines at a low RPM when they should be turning faster. More rpm, to a point, = more coolant and oil circulation which can be critical under heavy load.

That said, high pressure common rail fuel systems combined with variable geometry turbochargers can really broaden the torque curve of a given engine. HPCR allows for a greater MEP (mean effective pressure) in the cylinder without higher peak cylinder pressures by lengthening the duration of injection beyond what a mechanical system can do. The VG turbo is capable of making boost pressures at a lower engine rpm than a normal turbo can and still allow for unrestricted exhaust flow at higher RPM. All this wonderful trickery comes at a cost though. All beastly expensive to replace compared to the older simpler stuff, and don't seem to last as long.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

r82230 said:


> I'd agree with Jim, but add one point. Be careful of no over revving your equipment via going down hill, usually (or an inexperienced/not knowing operator  ). Some 540 rpm stuff might not take kindly to running at 700-800 rpm  , IMHO.
> 
> Larry


I agree that could happen on hills


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

This is why the new CVTs and Tractor System Management (like Fendt & MF) are so good, they save you from catastrophic errors and some not catastrophic.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I wonder how fuel consumption on these economy pto tractors compare to my 4255. I pull my rd baler making 4X5.5 bales at 480 pto rpm's & my 4255(127 pto hp) utilizes 3.2 gph the last time I checked it.

PS: I can't check it now due to someone stealing my 12 volt fuel transfer pump with attached gallon meter.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Someone stole your pump....I’m sure it was a fill-rite, they wouldn’t/shouldn’t waste their time on one of those others. Can’t stand a damn thief.....them gallon counter don’t come cheap either.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Yes sir it was a Fill-rite pump/meter that I purchased used a few yrs ago. It's not a good feeling to drive up to fuel storage tank to discover pump is missing & a open hole to catch rainwater. I called Sheriff's dept which was a waste of my time.


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