# Dont know if will help someone ,but..



## Feno (Feb 16, 2009)

For those who make bermuda grass hay a good herbicide we use here in Brazil against all kind of herbes and is very effective have the name of Fortex.Dont know if it is selled in US. But if not and u want to try it there is a cheaper formula if u can buy the molecules to make the formula.It will lower the cost in more then 50 % then the commercial Fortex. You can use 1/3 of msma and 2/3 of Diuron and spray it over the grass. Three liters per acreIt will be a bit yellow for a few days, but then it goes green again and you can cut it. Best thing ever to get rid of all kind of herbes. Surely you can use 2,4 D for herbes of large leaves..and is most cheaper...


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## hayfarmer (Nov 9, 2008)

MSMA is not legal for use on pasture in the United States. The active ingredient in MSMA is arsenic (heavy metal). Long term over-use can cause a build up in the soil and in rare cases it can sterilize the soil. I would not advise using the product because of liablility reasons.


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## Feno (Feb 16, 2009)

ah I am so sorry..didnt know it was illegal there.You are right its a organoarsenic , the chemestry formula is CH4AsNaO3 and is a class 2 herbicide here.Yellopw label ,highly dangerous.A teaspoon can kill a adult.It is produced by a israeli chemical group. And is largely used on sugar cane areas. 
but u dont use it often.I apply it to clean the new planted areas of coast cross or tifton.because it ,and trifluraline-used against seeds in the ground- are the only things that allow us to get rid of all invading grasses.I am going to make a specific test to check if there is any rsidual of arsenic on the gras,hay or in the soil.thanks for the advice.
what do you guys use in US on bermudagrass areas to keep it clean..im sure is not the hoe to weed all those large areas.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

MSMA was used to control grasses in cotton for years with no adverse soil effect. I believe it is labeled for golf courses just not for hay fields, or pastures. 
MSMA is a simple way to control Dallas Grass (One of the many Paspalum grasses as is baha grass.)

Cultural methods also work with dallasgrass. Dallasgrass likes low areas that hold water, so some surface drainage as well as felling low areas works. Even better is bermudagrass responds to fertilizers better than dallasgrass. With lots of nitrogen dallasgrass will simply fade into the background.

Johnsongrass can be a problem. Roundup in a wick applicator will eventually control it. Unusually there will be a life time supply of dormant johnsongrass seeds and regardless of the method of control in a few years it will be required again.

Personally I like to spray a bermudagrass hay field with roundup at first green up. This controls a lot of weeds plus sets the bermudagrass first cutting back almost a month. This way I can get two cuttings of alfalf in the barn before the first cutting of bermudagrass is ready. Even then the Bermudagrass will out yield the alfalfa.


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## hayfarmer (Nov 9, 2008)

EPA is currently challenging the Agriculture community as to why EPA should not regulate all pesticide applications as non-point source pollution requiring a discharge permit (NPDES - Clean Water Act) anywhere pesticides are applied at or near a water body (river, stream, lake, etc). As you can image, the cost would be catastrophic to the farming industry. My guest is that there will be even more restrictions on specific pesticides such as MSMA and Atrazene and possibly even baning some of them. Therefore we need to become involved and stay informed. Best management practices such as buffer and filter strips, use of minimium leaching pesticides, and no-till planting are better solution than more EPA regulations. This is why I choose not to use a controversal herbicide such as MSMA.


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## Feno (Feb 16, 2009)

Problems with products used in agriculture is that in each country a product is illegal or legal , depending on a lot of reasons..Some good ,some wrong. Some products used in US are forbidden here...and dont ask me why!
Of course i wont use Aldrin or recommend it.It is illegal here..but i know some people that buy it in neighbour countries and use it to control big red ants.And this old pesticide wil stay on ground and on water for years at your farm.
Surely most of the pesticides that are banned, must be. But with what are we going to fight against nature to control pests, etc, if it wont be with harsher pesticides?
for example, i plant corn.Eight years ago, i could control those green caterpillars that destroy the young plants with a single application of a pesticide.Nowadays, if i dont apply it for six times, they will eat all my corn plants,Im sure you guys have some problems like this that are increasing in the last years..
And talking about cancer with pesticides, that we use epi suits, gloves,, glasses,etc.. try to read the papers that come with the boxes of contraceptive pills our women take or took daily for years....and you will see what is a risk...
anyway , if there is a rule, we must follow it.for those who havent read about the reregistration denial fopr msma at EPA, here is the link:

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistration/REDs/organic_arsenicals_red.pdf


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