# Krone Dealership Question



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I just got ticked off.

I called Cain Equipment to buy a new tedder. I wanted their price on a 4 basket and a 6 basket tedder. I am in shock. they no longer handle Krone. I had to clean my ears out and ask them to repeat.

Yes Virginia, Cain Equipment no longer carries the Krone line. I know other members here have driven to north Georgia to buy from them.

I know I am poking the bear somewhat with this post because Krone1 is a very helpful and respected member here. He is great about answering questions we have about their line of equipment. My little rant is not directed to him but to allow him to show those higher up that these decisions have an effect on us the farmer.

From what I am able to gather, Cain Equipment sold too many implements. Their low prices allowed people like me to drive out of my local area to go Krone. I believe them selling out of their area caused some contention.

Now I am faced with paying an extra $850 to buy locally or go with a Kuhn. Cain did offer me a great price on their Kuhn line.

My Krone disc mower is the best disc mower I have ever owned. Looking at their line of stout hay equipment I believe they are setting a high standard.

If one dealership can sell at a very competitive price then that should set the tone for other dealers to get their act together and move some equipment.

The people at Cain are a classy lot and would not go into detail. I probed anyway. All I could get from them was they enjoyed their time as Krone dealer and working with Krone.

Times are tight and now I am trying to come up with and extra $850 to buy what I had my heart set on.

Maybe I will feel better about this after a good lunch or nights sleep. Something tells me I will not.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Kuhn makes great equipment also.


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## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

I was talking with some people yesterday at lunch about a similar situation. They buy all of their equipment from the same dealer I use and they drive 75 miles one way simply because of better customer service. Long story short they tried to buy a tractor from them and John Deere (corporate) wouldn't let said dealership sell them a tractor because they lived under the area of a different Deere franchise. Makes no sense to me, if I want to travel to spend my money I should be able to do that.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Agco pulled the same crap years ago around here, ended the agreements with about 4 local dealers for not selling enough. Brilliant, shut all four down instead of three and leaving one open. So for years we called down to Kokomo Indiana and dealt with Plevna Implement and had stuff drop shipped to us, they are by the way class acts all the way around. Three generations of family, 1st generation started it and the next two generations are there everyday. They've in the last year purchased the Agco/Ne w Ideal building that got shut down by Agco. Are already adding on to make more service area. We've made several major purchases from Bill Shrock their at Plevna sight unseen and haven't been disappointed yet.

Not sure now, but a few years ago Plevna Implement was the highest volume dealer of White planters in the nation. You get around Plevna and all MF red combines in the area as well, none of that yellow, green or oddball red stuff in the area.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

This should be an interesting topic of discussion. First let me say I know nothing about the dealer or Krone, but I have been in this business a long time and have seen many dealers come and go. If the cancellation came from Krone, you will never know the reason unless the dealer shares it with you. Remember there are always two sides to the story and judging from your post the dealer is not sharing any information with you. I doubt the reason the change was he was selling in to other dealers territories. That is usually a practice of the majors.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I know first hand that Crain Equipment sells to people in my community which is several hours and one state away. My local dealer, who is also a friend, said he could not touch Cain's price. I know at one time they were listed as the largest seller of Krone implements. Our local dealer, also a Deere dealer, has a limit on his sales area.

Cain is a family business. They are a classy bunch of southern folks and just not prone to bad mouth. If there is indeed a reason for Krone to limit or drop them as a dealer I wish they are welcome to enlighten us.

I have looked at Kuhn. They do make a good line of equipment. The frame on the Krone tedders is heavier on the comparable models I have seen.

I have called different dealers today to quote a price on the tedders I am considering.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Kuhn is a very good line.....but it is not Krone in quality of build.

Regards, Mike


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

We came real close to driving to Cain Eqp. and buying a Krone Tedder but the local dealer came within a few hundred bucks and by the time we would spent 8-10 hours on a trip there and back and the fuel we would have used we went with the local dealer.

We talked to the one of the Krone big wheels at Sunbelt Ag Expo and mentioned that the local dealers around our area didn't seem to want to push Krone equipment. He said they know it's a problem and that many of the dealers want to push their color of green and not Krone green even though they are an authorized Krone dealer.

We also brought up that we were thinking of trying to save some money and going to Cain Eqp. for a mower conditioner because the nearest dealer didn't seem to want to push Krone or Kuhn. The only thing he said about Cain was that he moved a lot equipment but wouldn't stand behind what they sold as far as service. Now don't shoot the messenger I'm just repeating what he told us. We've never bought anything from Kabe Cain but maybe this is why they dropped Cain Eqp. I'm sure most of you folks know how to setup new equipment but maybe too many people were driving long distances and picking up equipment and then not being able to set it up correctly and complained directly to Krone. Just guessing on that part.

On another note we've talked to Kabe Cain on several occasions and he was always very helpful, friendly and when they said he would call back he did and that's more than some around here will do.


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## Waterway64 (Dec 2, 2011)

When I started out farming you weren't done shopping until you made the trip to Bridgeport, Nebraska!


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I can see where a buyer would want support from the dealer who sold them the equipment.

I can also see a local dealer not happy to do warranty work on something a customer bought at another dealer. On that aspect I believe any Krone dealer would welcome the warranty work paid by the manufacturer.

Setting up a new piece of equipment might be challenging for a new comer as Grateful mentioned. Might be the reason things went south. For the price difference I could pay the local dealer to come out if I had an issue that could not be answered over the phone.

I have been on the phone today and would like to have one by the first of next week when we begin cutting hay.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Fella in barnesville ga sells em....chk Craigslist Macon or atl....search "tedder"


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## Cain7 (May 7, 2014)

Hello everyone! My name is Kabe Cain, i'm the owner of cain equipment. I just wanted to tell everyone my side and Krone's side of the story. We have been in the farm equipment business since 1958, started out selling WD 45 Allis Chamblers tractors; that was a long time ago. I was a Krone dealer for a number of years, had great luck with the product, still say its some of the best hay equipment made for several years. I was their largest hay tool dealer. I tried to sell the product off volume, just not a few units a year. In doing so, I had it advertised on the internet. I was selling their stuff in several states, I had other dealers complaining of my price to Krone and selling in their territory. Where i'm located is 50 miles north of Atlanta i'm not so rural. So, in order for me to stay in business I had to reach out. Krone's complaint with me is if I sell out of my territory I can't look after the customer. I can understand that some what, but any dealer will do the warranty work, I know I would, so intern they gave me 6 counties to sell in. I can't keep my doors open in 6 counties and I feel it's my business I should run it the way I want to. So, we have two different ways of doing business. I still say Krone has good equipment, unfortunately we can't do business together. It wasn't due to me not standing behind the product or service. This is the facts and the truth. Again, nothing bad to say about Krone, it was a great company to work with. We just can't work together anymore. I want to thank all of my customers out there for your business! If it wasn't for you and the Lord we wouldn't be open today. We still have several great lines of equipment. If I can help you with anything please keep us in mind .Thanks and God Bless!! - Kabe Cain


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Cain7 said:


> Hello everyone! My name is Kabe Cain, i'm the owner of cain equipment. I just wanted to tell everyone my side and Krone's side of the story. We have been in the farm equipment business since 1958, started out selling WD 45 Allis Chamblers tractors; that was a long time ago. I was a Krone dealer for a number of years, had great luck with the product, still say its some of the best hay equipment made for several years. I was their largest hay tool dealer. I tried to sell the product off volume, just not a few units a year. In doing so, I had it advertised on the internet. I was selling their stuff in several states, I had other dealers complaining of my price to Krone and selling in their territory. Where i'm located is 50 miles north of Atlanta i'm not so rural. So, in order for me to stay in business I had to reach out. Krone's complaint with me is if I sell out of my territory I can't look after the customer. I can understand that some what, but any dealer will do the warranty work, I know I would, so intern they gave me 6 counties to sell in. I can't keep my doors open in 6 counties and I feel it's my business I should run it the way I want to. So, we have two different ways of doing business. I still say Krone has good equipment, unfortunately we can't do business together. It wasn't due to me not standing behind the product or service. This is the facts and the truth. Again, nothing bad to say about Krone, it was a great company to work with. We just can't work together anymore. I want to thank all of my customers out there for your business! If it wasn't for you and the Lord we wouldn't be open today. We still have several great lines of equipment. If I can help you with anything please keep us in mind .Thanks and God Bless!! - Kabe Cain


Something does not make sense to me with krone's decision. Lets say I can't compete with my sales against yours because I want to make 20% and you on volume only need 10%. So I go complain to the big guys who than make a decision to pretty much put you out of business. This way I can make my 20% and sell a few more items. BUT those other few dealers will not sell the total volume that you did. Therefore krone will sell less total units. Sounds like a perfect plain to gain and keep a foothold in the North American hay market.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Krone, and any other manufacturer, can not survive without a dealer network. The manufacturer is in a difficult position when a dealer asks themselves why should I, as a dealer, push a product where you can not make the profit necessary to justify the investment? I do not think Krone told him he could not sell in other areas, but they probably did what others have tried and that is to make it more expensive to do so.

Warranty work is not a profit center. It is a necessary function that the selling dealer should provide. I find it strange that a person can buy a piece of equipment farther off and then expect his local dealer to provide warranty service. I do not know Krone's warranty provisions, but most warranties do not cover the time for trips to the customer and the companies limit the time you can charge for the repair. If I have a busy shop and I have a choice of doing a regular service job, where I know I will make enough to at least cover my expenses, or a warranty job on a piece of equipment I did not sell, where I know I will not cover all my expenses, which do you think I would choose. The dealer which sells the equipment will normally eat these expenses and charge it off a normal cost of doing business. In other words, they use the profit from the initial sale to cover this expense. That is hard to do when you did not sell the piece of equipment and did not make any money on it to start with.

I have no problem with people shopping around and I do not have a problem with them buying the cheapest price, The customer just needs to know there are hidden expenses in doing so. The biggest expense is the local dealer may not be in business or will drop the line of equipment the customer bought. I can see where the original poster stated his local dealer was also a John Deere dealer. I can assure you the local dealers cost of doing business is a lot higher than the dealer farther off. Does it justify the large difference in price between the two? Probably not, but again we do not know all the particulars about the deal.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Cain7, thanks for coming on haytalk and being very forthright in providing insight with your relationship with Krone. Quite often when one door is closed another is opened to those who keep the faith.

Best Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I have a hard time understanding why Krone as a company would shut down its largest hay equipment dealership due to the fact that other smaller dealers were complaining about Cain Equipments price. My understanding is the all the dealers get the same price from the factory so they could sell at a cheaper price if they wanted to as Cain Eq. was doing. Maybe if they would sell at a more competitive price they would start to move more equipment also. My opinion is that Krone should be more concerned about its smaller dealers that do not want to push the Krone products. When I was looking to buy a Krone tedder last year my two closest dealers I could not even get a price out of....they were trying to sell me Kuhn instead. I went to a dealer that is farther away due to the fact they did stock and handle some Krone products but they still don't push the line like I feel it should be since Krones products are very high quality. The place I bought mine would not negotiate on price and I seriously thought about buying from Cain Eq. but at the time the travel distance was an issue to go to Cain. I would have been pissed of if I would have been told I had to buy from a dealer closest to me....if I want to buy from a dealer across the country I feel that I should be able to. I think Krone as a company needs to be more concerned about getting its dealers to push and handle more of their product and maybe add some dealerships instead of taking them away....I would love to hear what Krones philosophy on this is.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

^^^^ ^^^^^^

Well said. I agree 100%.

You said a mouthful about most dealers not pushing the Krone line.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> I have a hard time understanding why Krone as a company would shut down its largest hay equipment dealership due to the fact that other smaller dealers were complaining about Cain Equipments price. My understanding is the all the dealers get the same price from the factory so they could sell at a cheaper price if they wanted to as Cain Eq. was doing. Maybe if they would sell at a more competitive price they would start to move more equipment also. My opinion is that Krone should be more concerned about its smaller dealers that do not want to push the Krone products. When I was looking to buy a Krone tedder last year my two closest dealers I could not even get a price out of....they were trying to sell me Kuhn instead. I went to a dealer that is farther away due to the fact they did stock and handle some Krone products but they still don't push the line like I feel it should be since Krones products are very high quality. The place I bought mine would not negotiate on price and I seriously thought about buying from Cain Eq. but at the time the travel distance was an issue to go to Cain. I would have been pissed of if I would have been told I had to buy from a dealer closest to me....if I want to buy from a dealer across the country I feel that I should be able to. I think Krone as a company needs to be more concerned about getting its dealers to push and handle more of their product and maybe add some dealerships instead of taking them away....I would love to hear what Krones philosophy on this is.


I agree with this. My local Krone dealer (an hour away) didn't seem interested in selling me a rotary rake telling me no one liked them. Then also wasn't interested in even talking to me about the big square balers. Maybe they didn't want to service someone an hour a way, but they could have just told me that. I also don't understand why a dealer couldn't sell equipment at the price they want to. I think car dealers can. They compete with each other all the time.


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## IFF (Apr 1, 2011)

I live out here on the west coast and had a very favorable experience with Cain Equipment. Local Krone dealer had a shot at selling me the piece of equipment and smirked when I told them what the target price range was. To top it off they wouldn't be able to deliver it for another four months (at that time). I needed the equipment before the end of the year. Working through Cain, I had the equipment in time and in my budget. I figured if the local dealer couldn't make it happen, I would. I hold no ill will toward the local dealer and they better not hold any against me if I need warranty work. Once again, the guy who is out there working hard, hustling and trying to make a living gets penalized because things aren't "fair". Sounds alot like our current government...............


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Market share is what drives these companies. You may think that Cain's had a large market share but in reality all they had was a large volumn of buisness. There local market share was undoubtly large but when you start selling farther away Krone's market share as a whole was probably lower than it should have been. I notieced from the posts that most of the Krone dealers carried a second line. It only makes sense that these dealers would push the other line of equipment if they felt they could not make a decent profit from selling Krone.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Small dealers whining, getting their way, when there is something they could do about it. Just like small groups of queers getting there way whenever they want it


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

FarmerCline is right about the locals not wanting to negotiate on Krone price. He came and looked at our Krone Tedder before buying because no one had them in stock, we said come on down and take a look.

Frankly I think Krone equipment scares the you know what out of Big Green and that's one reason they won't push the stuff. Personally I think the technology and quality is there and way beyond their Frontier stuff especially. I hate to start naming brands but this pisses me off that they cutoff Mr. Cain and the next farm show we go to I'm going to let be known. I now see what the big Krone cronnie at Moultrie was just blowing smoke up our arse about Mr. Cain.

Also as more and more dealerships merge there's not going to be much negotiating done at all in the future. There's only one independent JD dealer left in NC and the only reason they've left him alone is because he makes them so much money. I only know of one independent Krone dealer left in NC but there might be more and that's Renegar Equipment.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

bluefarmer said:


> Small dealers whining, getting their way, when there is something they could do about it. Just like small groups of queers getting there way whenever they want it


Let's keep this a dealership issue.

As far as the dealers having krone as an extra line, if they don't actual want to sell them, they should get their dealerships yanked too. I kind of see the perspective of Krone NA, here. If you let one dealer do all of the selling, you cease to become a dealer network and become a distributorship. That's really not good for long term success. However, I'd rather see them pull the line from (seemingly) unwilling dealers and give another local dealer a chance to gain market share rather than limit the willing distant dealer from selling into more distant territory.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Grateful11 said:


> I only know of one independent Krone dealer left in NC but there might be more and that's Renegar Equipment.


There is Williams Equipment LLC in Warrenton. I don't know how much Krone volume he has. I know him mostly as a Vermeer dealer. He has sold a pile of Vermeer balers for peanut hay.



8350HiTech said:


> Let's keep this a dealership issue.


+1


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

I'm Sorry folks for the unnecessary statement


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

There is an important issue here that is being passed over. First, I do not think Cain should have his territory limited. This is a country of free enterprise, or at least is was. If Cain wants to sell for less so be it, but, the rest of us should also understand that other Krone dealers determine when a business opportunity is profitable enough to pursue. That is also free enterprise. Krone could cut off the dealers which do not represent the line like they should, as has been suggested, but then what? Dealers are not exactly a dime a dozen and good dealers are even rarer. Like it or not profit drives all of us and has a definite role in our decision making after all you can only stay in business as long as the money lasts.

One other point. We do not know Krone's side of the story and we never will. If someone at Krone is reading this thread they are probably aching to get the other side out but are unable to for confidentially reasons. I just find it curious Krone would cancel a dealer because they sell too much.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Grateful11 said:


> Also as more and more dealerships merge there's not going to be much negotiating done at all in the future. There's only one independent JD dealer left in NC and the only reason they've left him alone is because he makes them so much money. I only know of one independent Krone dealer left in NC but there might be more and that's Renegar Equipment.


Deere has done that around here. They closed the worlds 5th oldest Deere dealer in NH last year. Also shut down one I dealt with in MA that had been there since the 40s. And forced a merger with 2 dealers in VT. So now we have 2 very small independant dealers in NH. One of which none of us locals deal with even though its 20 mins vs 2 hours. 1 dealer in MA with 2 locations and 1 dealer with 3 locations in VT. It stinks. You can't get a better deal cause why cut the price? The big dealer in NH always sold Kuhn and Krone and that was one reason I heard for the shutdown. Massey went through the same thing 10 years ago and put all their eggs into a basket of a start up who was selling an amazing amount of compacts. Til that market crashed and now he is done, leaving us 1 older dealer in NH. Farm Machinery is no different than cars. For the first time in 4 purchases I bought a car from a local dealer because they matched my price. But I have no qualms about flying and driving something home.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

I think it was more of a mutual break up. Krone wanted Cain to limit his sales area and Cain felt like he did not need to so both parties decided to pursue other avenues.

I hear thru the grapevine that Krone has an area open for a new dealer if anyone is interested.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

IFF said:


> I live out here on the west coast and had a very favorable experience with Cain Equipment. Local Krone dealer had a shot at selling me the piece of equipment and smirked when I told them what the target price range was. To top it off they wouldn't be able to deliver it for another four months (at that time). I needed the equipment before the end of the year. Working through Cain, I had the equipment in time and in my budget. I figured if the local dealer couldn't make it happen, I would. I hold no ill will toward the local dealer and they better not hold any against me if I need warranty work. Once again, the guy who is out there working hard, hustling and trying to make a living gets penalized because things aren't "fair". Sounds alot like our current government...............


If a person in Oregon can buy a piece of equipment from Georgia for less than a local dealer can offer then something is amiss. Cain is not a large international distributor. They are a family run business and happen to move a lot of machinery.

IFF, at least you now know up front that you will be smirked by your local dealer rather than dealing with someone willing to work with you.

I wonder if Krone sales have skyrocketed since they and Crain parted ways? The local dealers are happy. And probably still have the Krone implements they do not push, sitting on their yard. Everyone must be happy now.

I have called 3 Krone dealers to price a tedder. All agreed to call me back with a quote. Not one has.

I will buy a new tedder of some kind by next week.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> If a person in Oregon can buy a piece of equipment from Georgia for less than a local dealer can offer then something is amiss. Cain is not a large international distributor. They are a family run business and happen to move a lot of machinery.
> IFF, at least you now know up front that you will be smirked by your local dealer rather than dealing with someone willing to work with you.
> I wonder if Krone sales have skyrocketed since they and Crain parted ways? The local dealers are happy. And probably still have the Krone implements they do not push, sitting on their yard. Everyone must be happy now.
> I have called 3 Krone dealers to price a tedder. All agreed to call me back with a quote. Not one has.
> I will buy a new tedder of some kind by next week.


So let me get this straight.....they no longer have a dealer that sold some volume and the other dealers in the "territory" you live in haven't called you back???

WOW...cuttin off the nose to spite the face, get a kuhn, you'll be happy, they're great units....


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> I have called 3 Krone dealers to price a tedder. All agreed to call me back with a quote. Not one has.
> 
> I will buy a new tedder of some kind by next week.


I don't understand businesses these days it's almost like if you aren't spending $100K at some these equipment dealers then they have no time for you. To me a sale is sale. I think they have forgotten who got them to where they are today. My late Father owned a HVAC business for over 30 years, mostly worked by himself, my brother and I helped on Saturdays, after school and during summers. I went to work with him in the summers when I was 12. He never ever treated anyone like that, if someone wanted a price on a replacement or a full system or whatever he got right on it and got them what they asked for.

Tim do any of those dealers have them in stock?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Building a relationship with a salesman has its advantages. But if they don't even want to talk time to find someone who will. I know my Kubota dealer, Nh/Vermeer dealer and Kuhn dealer would all shoot me straight. But if I went to any of the three and talked to the wrong guy I could waste a lot of time.

I make no excuses for any of the sales guys- they should all have at least some price delivered to you. It may help to talk in person. Meet face to face. Since the right guy isn't looking for you, you may have to find him. As my uncle would say- are you going to be my new dealer?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

My Vermeer sales guy was always out of the office all the time. I would call and he would be 50 or 100 miles away or headed that way. When I sat down with him he answered my question as to what he was doing?, Service/ delivery? Nope. Making sales calls. Tells me his repeat customers are his bread and butter and the ones he knows his time is well spent on.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> So let me get this straight.....they no longer have a dealer that sold some volume and the other dealers in the "territory" you live in haven't called you back???
> 
> WOW...cuttin off the nose to spite the face, get a kuhn, you'll be happy, they're great units....


Bingo!

I looked hard at a Claas tedder. I like them. I compared several brands last summer when it rained every other day. I decided on a Krone, then decided to put it off until I sold my fall calves this spring. It kind of took the air out of my sails when I called Crane before driving over to buy one.

Now I am back to shopping for a local dealer.

I did get in touch with one dealer today. Talked to a former sales manager now in upper management (I have his cell number). He said he would give me the best deal he could and have one assembled by Tuesday. He is an honest man. I had asked him to match Cain's tedder price last year and he said he could not. He got close enough on a 283 disc mower for us to deal. I believe buying a new tractor had something to do with the mower price



Grateful11 said:


> Tim do any of those dealers have them in stock?


Two have the 4 basket in stock and assembled. Neither of those returned my calls.

No one had a 6 basket in stock. The dealer who returned my call has two 6 basket's on the way. I am going with a 4 basket because most of my hay ground is terraced.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I like the Claas as well, just no dealer support in this area, be like buying a brand new windows XP computer, good machine, just no support.....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Grateful11 said:


> I don't understand businesses these days it's almost like if you aren't spending $100K at some these equipment dealers then they have no time for you. To me a sale is sale. I think they have forgotten who got them to where they are today. My late Father owned a HVAC business for over 30 years, mostly worked by himself, my brother and I helped on Saturdays, after school and during summers. I went to work with him in the summers when I was 12. He never ever treated anyone like that, if someone wanted a price on a replacement or a full system or whatever he got right on it and got them what they asked for.
> 
> Tim do any of those dealers have them in stock?


Know exactly what you're talking about, won't name any names but there is a few around here you won't get your call returned unless you're buying a new combine or tractor from them every couple of years.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks like Krone.1 is going stay out of this one but he hasn't posted anything in over a week.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Krone1 is in a no-win situation....it is out of his hands. No need to stir the pot.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm guessing that whatever Krone1 knows of this situation he is unable to share due to company confidentiality.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

It seems that the general consensus is that Krone makes some very well built, high quality, and well performing equipment but that a lot of its dealers are not very interested in promoting and selling their equipment. Krone needs to take a serious look at its dealer network and see what they can do to improve this as it seems like that is what is costing them the most sales. Unless the buyer is already dead set on buying Krone many of their dealers seem to be turning potential customers away from buying Krone.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Vol said:


> Krone1 is in a no-win situation....it is out of his hands. No need to stir the pot.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yup, I'd say you hit the nail on the head right there.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

While I understand the dilemma that both parties face, a better solution to this common problem is for the company to do what is right for them and their shareholders (if they have any) usually that means the guy moving equipment keeps the line....like anyone else, I see no reason why the local dealer can't beat or meet Cains price if the customer buying figures a price for going to get it. If Cain has to ship it, surely they can match that price....and they will say we can't make money at that price so they sell off of Krone to other brands....but in reality if they sold any volume (price) and offered good service, then Cain wouldn't be getting calls from people outside their area .... While its honorable that Krone is willing to "cut off its nose to spite it's face" in order to please other smaller (maybe) dealers, if they don't push the line.....
This is a shared problem across many industries, I have always liked to have an "exclusive" product, I also realize that the consumer has the right to go anywhere they please to buy the vehicle, tractor, stereo, hot tub, widget.......it's up to me the businessman, me the salesman, and my character to sell whatever it is I'm selling, regardless of the price.....
Wish I had one of everything Krone makes for forage tools, judging by their tedder, it's a great piece of equipment....


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Wonder how much equipment a dealer would sell if he was the cheapest dealer in a oh lets say 500 mile radius. Now lets assume the equipment he was selling needed some warranty repair or the customer needed some field service and said dealer was unable to provide service to a far reaching customer base. So the unserviced customer tells his farm friends about the service issues and these friends tell their friends and these tell their friends etc. Soon the dealer & equipment manufacture would have a bad rep for not providing service and his sells would suffer and so would the equipment manufactures. So without a network of local dealers to service the local customer then the customers will look to other sources of equipment that can provide the servicing that they require. So it appears the sword has 2 edges your damned if you do and damned if you don't.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I think it is kind of ridiculous to think that if a customer buys a implement from a dealer 200+ miles away, to expect said customer to service with that selling dealer. Folks who go great distances to buy implements are doing so for one reason only.....saving money. If it is under warranty, have it serviced by a closer dealer, if it is out of warranty, have it serviced with a closer dealer....but do not expect red carpet....that is the cost of shopping and saving.

Personally, I usually do not use a dealer for service as I have a mechanic that is as capable as most anyone. If he is not equipped for a repair(computer related usually) then I bite the bullet and deal with dealers.

Regards, Mike


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Let us look at this from a different angle. You have some calves for sale and I come and look at them. Fine looking animals but I can buy fine looking calves from another farmer 200 miles away and I can buy them for less money and they will even ship them to me. Since I do not want you to think I do not appreciate your ability to raise fine calves, I tell you what I will do for you and I know you will appreciate what I am going to do for you. So I say to you, I am going to buy the fine calves from the other farmer 200 miles away but if I have any problem with them I will have you come over and doctor them right up and too top it all off, I will only pay you 75% of your costs for your expertise.

Sounds ridiculous does it not? But that is exactly what you are expecting from your local dealer when you expect him to do warranty work on a piece of equipment he did not sell. As I stated in a earlier post to this thread, warranty does not always cover all of the dealer's costs. Doing warranty work on a tedder is one thing, but the more sophisticated equipment is another where the diagnostic time can eat you alive.

There are a variety of reasons why your local dealer will not meet the lower price of a competing dealer. Overhead is the most obvious, but you also are dealing with different jurisdictions where taxes or other regulations make it more expensive to sell that piece of equipment. All dealer pay the same for the piece of equipment, but these companies have different programs for different areas of the country and some are state by state. The state line can make a large difference in the companies programs.

As a dealer, why would I try and sell Krone if I have to sell at a lower price when I can sell a Kuhn and make more money. You may not like the dealer for trying to make more money, but unlike farming where the love of the lifestyle is unique, the dealer must make money to stay in business. How many threads across different forums have lamented the decline of local dealerships?

As I read the post from Mr. Cain, I came away with the impression he could keep selling Krone in several counties but evidently he was the one who chose to stop selling altogether. I can understand his reason but this is also cutting off your nose to spite your face. If he could not make a go of his business if he did not sell farther away, how does not selling Krone at all help him overcome this predicament.

Krone, like all ag equipment producers, walk a fine line. On one hand they need a profitable dealer network and on the other hand they need sales volume. Krone evidently feels a profitable dealer network will lead to the sales volume they need. What I have observed over the 40+ years in this business is you can not cut the profits of dealers if you wish to have a market presence in the future.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Vol said:


> I think it is kind of ridiculous to think that if a customer buys a implement from a dealer 200+ miles away, to expect said customer to service with that selling dealer. Folks who go great distances to buy implements are doing so for one reason only.....saving money. If it is under warranty, have it serviced by a closer dealer, if it is out of warranty, have it serviced with a closer dealer....but do not expect red carpet....that is the cost of shopping and saving.
> 
> Personally, I usually do not use a dealer for service as I have a mechanic that is as capable as most anyone. If he is not equipped for a repair(computer related usually) then I bite the bullet and deal with dealers.
> 
> Regards, Mike


If there are no local dealers because they all closed up then who else would service the purchase from the 200 mile dealer.

I have read several saying that a certain piece of equipment was great equipment but they would not buy that equipment due to no dealers in the area...


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

How does warranty work get paid to dealers? I always thought that the manufacturer pays the dealer for any warranty work they do. Do they pay warranty work at a reduced price? I'm only asking because if a dealer can get paid their usual rate on warranty work why would they care who sold it. But maybe it doesn't work that way? I was told once that's how car dealers work. Maybe farm dealers are different.

That being said we recently bought a little MF 1759 new from our MF dealer. I had some sorta clutch/electronics issue that a part needed replaced from the first day we even used it on the farm. The part had to be ordered and when it came it was wrong I guess. I had called in to see what was going on and the service manager was out so I had to leave a message. I told the lady maybe we made a mistake buying this little tractor since we had kinda questioned all the electronics from even when we bought it. That got results. They took the part off of a new tractor sitting on the lot and brought it out that day. If I had bought that tractor at the dealer an hour a way or 3 hours a way I'm sure they wouldn't have done that. Also because we've bought several much larger pieces of equipment from this dealer in the past helps.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

> As I read the post from Mr. Cain, I came away with the impression he could keep selling Krone in several counties but evidently he was the one who chose to stop selling altogether. I can understand his reason but this is also cutting off your nose to spite your face. If he could not make a go of his business if he did not sell farther away, how does not selling Krone at all help him overcome this predicament.


Mr. Crain said he could not make money being limited to 4 counties. How would he tell someone like me that he had a tedder at a lower price but could not sell it to me?

One huge, obvious advantage when buying out of state is the sales tax. I understand I will pay sales tax locally and have no problem with that. Here it varies from county to county. I have to tell them I am in the next county over with higher sales tax and I pay more.

If someone wanted to buy my calves and found a better price then I would be happy for them. If they needed help then I would drive over and lend a hand. I have never charged a fellow farmer for helping them in a bind. Some leave a little cash in my truck seat just because they appreciate the help.

I do not haul my calves to the sale barn that charges more commission. Both sales have the same order buyers and bring the same.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Tim/South said:


> Mr. Crain said he could not make money being limited to 4 counties. How would he tell someone like me that he had a tedder at a lower price but could not sell it to me?


If I was Mr Cain I would do it something like this

"Mr Tim I regret to inform you that I am unable to sell you a Krone tedder due to the fact that you are not located in my regional sales area, but I would be more than glad to make you a really great deal on a new KUHN or several other brands that I have on my lot."

Respectfully

Mr, Cain


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

rajela said:


> If there are no local dealers because they all closed up then who else would service the purchase from the 200 mile dealer.
> 
> I have read several saying that a certain piece of equipment was great equipment but they would not buy that equipment due to no dealers in the area...


 The local dealers could drop their price to a competitive level and there would be no reason for people to go 200 miles away to purchase so the local dealer could then keep the doors open.

I understand taxes will vary from area to area but let's take that out of the equation and the dealers are getting the piece from the company at the same price....some just want to make more profit than others as the taxes do not make up the big difference in asking price between dealers. Can anyone blame a person for buying from the dealer that has a better price even after the cost of delivering the distance? You can't tell me that local dealers can not match the price after the cost of delivery from the dealer that is farther away is figured in.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

FarmerCline so your saying that if someone is selling 2nd cut alfalfa for $2.00 a bale less than you then you would drop your price because someone could buy it some where else for $2.00 less.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It is not a question of whether the local dealer could lower his price, it is a question of at what point is it economically unfeasible to do so and only each dealer can determine that.

Tim you missed my point on taking care of someone else calves. Would you still do so if you had to contribute 25% of the cost of doing so. I am not talking about someone who is down and out, I am talking about someone who has the means and would not give you a penny more for your calves and bought them somewhere else. If it would not irk you, then you are a saint and a better person than me.

Warranty will pay for most parts and the time the company dictates the repair should take. They do not cover trips, and only limited amount of diagnostic time. If there is no profit from the initial sale to draw from for the non-selling servicing dealer, then why do you expect him to take money out of his pocket and put it into your machine.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

rajela said:


> FarmerCline so your saying that if someone is selling 2nd cut alfalfa for $2.00 a bale less than you then you would drop your price because someone could buy it some where else for $2.00 less.


 Hay is a little different than equipment in a few ways.....each model of equipment is the same quality coming out of the factory while hay quality varies a lot.....equipment dealers selling new equipment are going to make a profit....some have a larger profit margin than others but still a profit while there are plenty of weekend hay producers that sell hay for break even or less that drives the local market price down.

Lets assume the alfalfa was the same quality as mine, if it is I could not blame the customer for going to buy the $2 cheaper hay. Let's also assume he was still making a profit on his alfalfa that is $2 less than mine just a smaller profit margin than I am making. As long as I could still sell most all of my alfalfa I would not adjust my price however if I had trouble selling mine and people were traveling a distance and still could buy it cheaper than mine at that point I may have to lower my price as it seems that I am asking too much.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

mike10 said:


> It is not a question of whether the local dealer could lower his price, it is a question of at what point is it economically unfeasible to do so and only each dealer can determine that.
> 
> Tim you missed my point on taking care of someone else calves. Would you still do so if you had to contribute 25% of the cost of doing so. I am not talking about someone who is down and out, I am talking about someone who has the means and would not give you a penny more for your calves and bought them somewhere else. If it would not irk you, then you are a saint and a better person than me.
> 
> Warranty will pay for most parts and the time the company dictates the repair should take. They do not cover trips, and only limited amount of diagnostic time. If there is no profit from the initial sale to draw from for the non-selling servicing dealer, then why do you expect him to take money out of his pocket and put it into your machine.


 I do see your point on the warranty issue. I would venture to say that when buying equipment long distance to get a cheaper price that it is a risk one takes that if warranty repairs are needed that you either let the local dealer do it and the company pays the dealer for their parts and labor and you pay the small costs that the company will not cover like the diagnosis. I'm guessing that the dealer who you purchased it from and is a long distance away will not cover the shipping cost back to him as part of the warranty so the other option is you pay to have it shipped back to the dealer where it was purchased and let them cover the cost of the diagnosis. It seems that would be fair to both the local dealer and buyer and is a risk the buyer takes by purchasing long distance to get a cheaper price.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> I do see your point on the warranty issue. I would venture to say that when buying equipment long distance to get a cheaper price that it is a risk one takes that if warranty repairs are needed that you either let the local dealer do it and the company pays the dealer for their parts and labor and you pay the small costs that the company will not cover like the diagnosis. I'm guessing that the dealer who you purchased it from and is a long distance away will not cover the shipping cost back to him as part of the warranty so the other option is you pay to have it shipped back to the dealer where it was purchased and let them cover the cost of the diagnosis. It seems that would be fair to both the local dealer and buyer and is a risk the buyer takes by purchasing long distance to get a cheaper price.


Neither of these options are what happens in the real world.

1. "and you pay the small costs that the company will not cover like the diagnosis."

The dealer eats the extra cost the the company won't cover. It is warranty coverage and the consumer will pitch a bitch fit if he is charged a dime.

2. "you pay to have it shipped back to the dealer where it was purchased"

The consumer raises nine kinds of hell and refuses to pay any shipping to any where and gets the company involved in a big pissing match. The company agrees to have the local dealer service the equipment. Again the local dealer comes out on the short end of the rope.

In either case the consumer tells all his friends on the internet forum how he was wronged and treated like a red headed step child. Again the local dealer is drug thru the mud.

P.S.

I know your an honorable man and would never do either of these things and that I believe to be very true but we are talking about John Q Public and you can bet your sweet azz they are going to squeal like a pig hung in the fence.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> As long as I could still sell most all of my alfalfa I would not adjust my price however if I had trouble selling mine and people were traveling a distance and still could buy it cheaper than mine at that point I may have to lower my price as it seems that I am asking too much.


Or you do as appears many of the Krone dealers do, you sell a different hay mixture, Kuhn in several cases, that will generate the income you need.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Another option is to buy used equipment.....then you could care less about warranty......I've had a few implements with a warranty, don't thnk I ever used it tho.....

But to the point of dealers and corporate dealings, imagine is the big three and their dealers had adopted this way of thinking.....that should speak volumes

A good company will embrace that service call and sell themselves to the customer who went elsewhere....perhaps they can gain their business via that non-profit service call......OR, they can drag their feet and reinforce to the buyer why they didn't buy from them to begin with.....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

rajela said:


> Neither of these options are what happens in the real world.
> 1. "and you pay the small costs that the company will not cover like the diagnosis."
> The dealer eats the extra cost the the company won't cover. It is warranty coverage and the consumer will pitch a bitch fit if he is charged a dime.
> 
> ...


 I was just giving an example of what would seem to be fair to the local dealer in those circumstances. I realize that in reality that this may not work because as you said the majority of the public is not very interested in being honest or fair......but that also includes dealers.....I have been royally screwed by my local MF and Vermeer dealer. If I was told that I had to buy from my local dealer because of the possible warranty issues I would be turned away from buying those brands. If the company would just cover all of the local dealers costs in warranty repairs it wouldn't be an issue.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Well, I went through this same sort of thing about 15 years ago when we decided to trade up on tractors... I went shopping around and knew what I wanted to spend (well, what my Grandmother who owned the operation that I ran for her wanted to spend) and we wanted basically a new version of the Ford 6600 we were trading off...

Talked to the local NH dealer (who'd originally sold us the 5200 and the 6600 when my Granddad was still alive) and "the best he could do" was "well, a new 5610S lists for $21,000, I'll give you $3,000 in trade on the 6600, so $18,000 cash out the door..." Didn't sound too good to me.

SO, I went to the local NH dealer in Shiner near our other farm... Last tractor we bought from him was a 2310 right after my Granddad died; tired of fighting to keep the old NAA running... plus we've bought some hay equipment from him, including a new PZ Zweegers drum mower back in 89... he tells me "Well, the new 5610S lists for $16,000, and I'll give you $6,000 in trade, so $10,000 cash out the door." So, I ask, "Will you set the wheels out to 80 inches and deliver it 100 miles down to the Needville farm??" "Sure, no problem... when do you want it?" So after a conversation with "the boss", we wrote him a check.

Now, a few months later I went to the local dealer 23 miles from me near Needville and bought some filters to change the oil... of course the 5610S filters were different from what we'd been running, so he started quizzing me about it... "Where'd you get your new 5610S??" SO, having given them the first chance to make the deal and felt like they were trying to screw me, I had no compunction about telling him EXACTLY why I hadn't bought it from him... His prices were just too darn high for stuff he was trying to sell, and not just on this one deal-- several times I'd gone in and priced stuff and just walked out shaking my head at what he was asking for some "fence row" stuff that basically nobody else would likely want, but ok, that's his right... as it is mine to go elsewhere... So I told him, "Oh, I got it in Shiner... best price you'd give me was $18,000 out the door; I got it from him for $10,000 cash". Looking like he'd bit into a sour prune, he wrinkled his face up and started muttering about "he shouldn't have sold it to you... we have protected territories" and some other crap along those lines...

I just looked matter of factly at him and said, "Well, I can tell you one thing-- If I couldn't have bought it from him for what I did, I wouldn't have bought it from you anyway-- for the price you were asking, I could get a Massey Ferguson way cheaper, or put a little more with it and got a new Deere..." That shut him up real quick and sent him wandering back to the office...

Thing is, not long after I had a neighbor ask me to come bush-hog a patch behind the house for his family reunion... wanted it mowed close so they could play volleyball... I went over and did it and about halfway through, the PTO quit... I checked everything over, and no joy... So I called my Shiner dealer... told him what happened, and since it was still firmly under warranty, he sent a truck to pick it up and haul it back to Shiner to the shop for service. The found a bunch of metal in the hydraulic pump, which apparently had failed, cleaned everything up and installed a new pump and brought it back a few days later... I went over to finish the job, which I did, and then did some cutting around our place and lo and behold it quit AGAIN within a few days... I called them, they came and got it AGAIN and, same thing-- metal in the rear end and a failed hydraulic pump. They started tracing down where the metal was coming from and eventually after tearing the whole rear end down, discovered that the PTO thrust bearing surface in the rear center housing of the tractor had been machined wrong at the factory-- every time the PTO was used, the thrust bearing would grind away at the metal and fill the rear end with shavings until they got sucked into the pump and ruined it. They got a new rear center housing from New Holland, cleaned everything back up and put it back together, and brought it back... worked fine ever since...

Now, having bought the machine from the Shiner dealer, I wouldn't expect the local dealer to do the warranty work (not that I would trust them to do it-- had more than a couple run-ins with the "dumb bunnies" that they hire to work in the shop-- maybe 1-2 old timers in there know what they're doing-- everybody else-- not so much!) The Shiner dealer stepped up and fixed it too, hauling it to Needville and back to Shiner THREE TIMES, (100 miles down and 100 miles back).

Now, granted, if you're buying something three states away, getting dealer support from the original selling dealer in the event of such an issue is going to be problematical, especially on a smaller sale with lower margins like an implement. Probably not going to happen. SO, yeah, it'll probably fall to the LOCAL dealer (who wouldn't get right on the price, which is why someone bought it way off up the country somewhere... that's HIS fault, for not trying to make a deal) to do the warranty work in such a circumstance. BUT, instead of whining to corporate about someone "undercutting his price and selling out of territory", what he SHOULD be asking is "is it better to make a sale, or NOT??" Basically the company should be telling their dealers the SAME THING... If you don't make the sale, if the customer goes elsewhere, WHAT HAVE THEY GAINED?? NOTHING! If you're not in business to make a deal, then WHY BOTHER?? Now, granted, someone can "make a deal" that someone else might not be able to match... THAT'S THE BREAKS.

If a dealer doesn't like getting stuck doing "warranty work" on machinery he didn't sell, because he's not selling much (if any) because he'd rather sell another brand, or just looking to clean someone's plow on every sale rather than try to sell some volume and make some money, then HE SHOULD DROP THAT LINE OF EQUIPMENT... that way, if he's not the dealer for that line, he doesn't have to stock parts, order parts, or perform service on that line of equipment. For a lot of years around these parts, I saw a couple dealers that would snap up every "short line" manufacturer or "non-mainstream brand" equipment that COULD POSSIBLY COMPETE with whatever "main color" they were selling... not because they wanted to present a wider range of options to their potential customers, but because THEY WANTED TO ELIMINATE THE COMPETITION FROM THOSE LINES... If some independent dealer snapped up say, Krone, and you could get a better machine at a better price from him because he had a little steel building out in the countryside for a dealership, instead of paying an overly inflated price from the local "main color dealer" in town paying for his glass-n-brick fancy dealership building, a new dually for his high school daughter, and all kinds of other nonsense, well, it's not hard to see where a LOT of his sales are going to end up... So these guys "snap up" these franchises or lines, then when you come in and ask, "hey, I'm looking for a mower, kinda like the looks of that Krone you got out there... how much would we be talking about??" Instead of getting you a quote or calling you back with the information, you get the runaround and a line of bull about "oh, you don't want that-- nobody likes those, they aren't any good, that's a cheap cutter, whatever-- what you want is a new (my main color) machine... nevermind that it's a few grand higher-- everybody loves em and they're worth the money..."

In a way, we're seeing the same thing in machinery that we saw with seed in the 90's... the "big boys" are buying up all the competition as fast as they can, the same way DuPont and Monsanto bought up their main "seed company partners" and then subsequently bought up all the "regional seed lines" competing with their "main brand"... the end result is less competition, which inevitably means higher prices and a more "captive market", with what THEY WANT TO SELL YOU, instead of what YOU WANT TO BUY. That's what it's all about... The consolidation in the machinery business and the new corporate policies toward their dealerships and dealer networks is following along these same lines, and basically now the car dealers are their corporate masters are doing the same things...

I remember when the Case/IH merger happened... the IH dealer had built a big new fancy building, and the Case dealer (whom my brother worked for many years later) hadn't. The Case dealer's main business was selling big rice tractors to rice farmers, and maybe a few Case combines (orange and white ones, not red rotors). The IH dealer's bread and butter was planters, combines, and especially cotton pickers around here, and some row crop tractors. The IH dealer, though, was greedy, and did everything in his power to put the Case dealer out... he didn't want the competition... so he planted the bug in corporates ear that "his old dealership building looks shoddy-- yall should make him build a new dealership" and "his sales numbers aren't high enough" and all this sort of crap... SO, basically, corporate bought into it and told the Case dealer to build a new building or lose his franchise... he didn't want to spend the money to compete with a fancy new dealership building, so he was forced out. The greedy IH guy won; and yeah his sales increased, but the service declined... After going through a bunch of crap trying to get parts for cotton pickers, I ended up switching to green machines, for the simple reason that they'd back up their machinery with the needed parts to keep them running. Case/IH was only interested in selling you a new machine or servicing it for the first 10-15 years... so screw 'em...

I've been waiting to see how long it'll take for him to pull the same stunt on the local NH dealer, now that it's Case/New Holland... course, the main thing I think preventing it is that New Holland is the controlling partner and is maintaining their "brand identity" apart from Case/IH... Around here, NH is for hay equipment and small compact tractors, utility tractors, and such... CaseIH is for row crop farming, high horsepower tractors, cotton pickers, combines, and planters... they sell a little hay stuff but not much from what I've seen... So basically they're not in direct competition against each other... if they were, if CNH was a "single line" or "single brand" selling everything under one roof, you can bet the gloves would come off and there's no doubt who'd win...

I talked with a guy in Oklahoma awhile back, used to be a shortline manufacturer, and he was telling me he tried to buy a JD dealership from an elderly fellow ready to retire... one of the few remaining 'one store dealers' around... There was a big "mega chain dealer" who wanted to buy the old guy out, but they were consistently lowballing him with their offers... When he made a deal with this other former shortline guy, just before they were to sign the papers, John Deere Corporate got in the middle of it, and basically told the old man that he COULDN'T sell to the shortline guy, that he HAD to sell to their "mega chain dealer" (you know the type-- they usually have a half-dozen to a dozen stores spread over areas covering half a state or spread across 2-3 states) and sell at the low-ball price! They had some "leverage" over him relating to inventory and stuff, and so the old man had no choice but to sell for the lowball price to the mega chain dealer and eat the loss...

Basically, the big companies don't want their dealers competing with each other... they ONLY want the big "mega chain dealers" around here anymore... Basically as far as green and red is concerned, there's only TWO DEALERS within about 300 miles of here... sure, they have multiple stores, but they've bought out all the smaller green and red dealers around the region until they're the only ones left... Some guys started as independent dealerships, not affiliated with any particular big name brand, but selling used stuff and repairing machinery, and got in with the "big companies" back in the early 90's, only to be "bought out" by the big megachain dealers in the past 10 years or so... Funny thing is, now that the megachain dealers have bought out all these stores, now they're closing them right and left... The customer, who once had a smaller, locally owned and operated red or green store in their town, now find themselves having to drive 40 miles one way to get parts, because once the megachain dealer bought them out, they closed the store down a few years later... no more sales competition between dealers, so no "deals" to be had, either... Plus, the mega chain dealers aren't usually very good to deal with, anyway... they've got a 'captive market', and they know it... they don't HAVE to deal...

The only "choice" anymore is coming from the few independent dealers selling shortline stuff new or fixing up and selling used stuff, or up-n-coming brands like Kubota which are just starting to provide some SERIOUS competition or choices, or "fringe brands" like New Holland (though of course since the CNH merger, even though their dealers are smaller, stuff is "creeping down from the top" at corporate and so they behave just like the mega-chain dealers, eliminating competition with each other, as I mentioned.

As with most "main brand" car dealers now, corporate policies are increasingly getting in the middle of who can buy what where... "protected territories" and only giving dealership franchises to dealers with multiple locations scattered over a broad territory (mega-chain dealers). Of course, I'm from the old school... If I can't get what I want from you for the price I'm willing to pay, I'll go somewhere else and buy something else... I'm not going to be held hostage and pay some inflated price just because you as a mega dealer and corporate policies protecting you so you can screw me over makes you THINK that I "have" to buy it from you... just like I told our local NH dealer years ago on that 5610 sale...

I see the same sort of thing in Indiana when I'm up there working for my BIL... every red store for 100 miles is owned by one mega chain dealer, every green store is owned by another big dealer, etc... it's all the same. If you look at the trends, if they continue as-is, in a few years the "dealership" is going to be more like a 'distributorship and warrantee/service center" anyway... Inventory overhead costs have gotten to the point that most dealers around here have to order friggin' parts for you anyway-- they don't carry half of what you need, unless it's FAST MOVING parts that they sell a lot of. I've ended up having to maintain my own "parts inventory" because I KNOW that the dealer won't have half what I need, and I don't want to have to wait for it. Gone are the days when they'd have "several of everything" on the lot and you could pick and choose what size or type machine you wanted to buy, and perhaps make a deal on a bigger one that was last year's model or whatever... now they have "one of a few things" and if you want something different, they have to order one for you... so BASICALLY they're a "distributorship" already. I HAD been able to call my Ford/New Holland dealer in Shiner, order a part, and they'd ship it DIRECTLY to me... cut out the middleman, a 100 mile drive, and having to wait an extra day or two to get it... They offered better service than the local Ford/New Holland dealer, who couldn't figure out what you needed over the phone, so you had to come in (they don't want to order the wrong thing and be stuck with it), and then order the stuff, and when it got to their dealership in the afternoon on the pallet off the back of a delivery truck, the parts people didn't want to break into the pallet and process the orders and make the phone calls to "come get your part-- it's in" until the next day, wasting MORE time, plus it was STILL a 23 mile drive to their store to pick the thing up after you wait LONGER to get it... (another reason I quit dealing with the "local" dealer 23 miles away instead of the one 100 miles away). Of course once the Case/New Holland merger went through, he got word they weren't ALLOWED to ship stuff straight to me anymore-- I have to pick it up in Shiner... That and other corporate policies about what models they have to have on the lot and stuff has led my Shiner dealer to basically carry very, very little New Holland stuff... they want him to sell cab tractors, when the local economy and market only wants smaller open-deck utility tractors-- his sales fell off because New Holland doesn't want to sell anything but cab tractors and Boomer baby-utility tractors, so he started carrying mid-range Mahindra utility tractors. He carries a few New Holland rakes and balers, but only Kuhn mowers (no New Holland mowers) and several other shortlines like Woods cutters and stuff...

In a few years, I'll bet the 'dealership' as we remember it from when we were kids will be a thing of the past, and basically they'll all just be "distributorships" and "service centers" for the corporate brands...

Later! OL JR


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Wth Luke.....are you kidding me? Do we have a report due in the morning on that essay.....and is there cliff notes available? Once again I find myself agreeing with you....good thing I took that speed reading class in the 11th grade, have to go to work today.....sometimes it's good to give the abridged version of the story....lest you lose folk with your labyrinth of words....


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Welcome to the 21st century in the ag business, bigger is better. Unless you have an old established single store dealership, it is almost impossible to survive because of the overhead and mandates by the major ag companies. An example, the single store expenses for service tools are the same as a multi-store dealership, but the ability to recoup that investment is less because of a smaller population of equipment on which to use them. The smaller dealership pays the same fees, and there are many, to the majors for the services the majors supply to the dealership.

The majors will not keep you from buying a single store dealership, but they will decide whether you can carry the line. Unless the person you sited above was made of money I can see no reason for a major to give a dealership to him. People do not realize how much working capital it takes to operate a store. If you do not have millions available to use for the operation, you won't get to first base with a major. The majors want representation of their products at your store which is a huge cost to dealers whether they have the cash to handle it or have to pay huge interest costs to stay a dealership. The majors want financial stability which they believe can only be done with muti-stores where the costs can be spread over a larger number of businesses.

By the way, CNH does not have protected territories. Dealers can choose somewhat what portion of the line they want to sell but it can be detrimental when it comes time to sell the dealership.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Wth Luke.....are you kidding me? Do we have a report due in the morning on that essay.....and is there cliff notes available? Once again I find myself agreeing with you....good thing I took that speed reading class in the 11th grade, have to go to work today.....sometimes it's good to give the abridged version of the story....lest you lose folk with your labyrinth of words....


Hehehe... maybe...

I do tend to ramble at times.. sorry...

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

mike10 said:


> Welcome to the 21st century in the ag business, bigger is better. Unless you have an old established single store dealership, it is almost impossible to survive because of the overhead and mandates by the major ag companies. An example, the single store expenses for service tools are the same as a multi-store dealership, but the ability to recoup that investment is less because of a smaller population of equipment on which to use them. The smaller dealership pays the same fees, and there are many, to the majors for the services the majors supply to the dealership.
> 
> The majors will not keep you from buying a single store dealership, but they will decide whether you can carry the line. Unless the person you sited above was made of money I can see no reason for a major to give a dealership to him. People do not realize how much working capital it takes to operate a store. If you do not have millions available to use for the operation, you won't get to first base with a major. The majors want representation of their products at your store which is a huge cost to dealers whether they have the cash to handle it or have to pay huge interest costs to stay a dealership. The majors want financial stability which they believe can only be done with muti-stores where the costs can be spread over a larger number of businesses.
> 
> By the way, CNH does not have protected territories. Dealers can choose somewhat what portion of the line they want to sell but it can be detrimental when it comes time to sell the dealership.


Well... that's been about 15-16 years ago now... before the CNH merger... don't know if company policy changed in all that time or not, WRT protected territories or what not... Course knowing the local dealer, he was lying out the side of his face anyway... Just trying to stir something up...

Like I said, I wouldn't have bought it from him at the price he was asking anyway. And protected territory or no, h3ll, I have a farm at Shiner, in the other dealer's supposed "protected territory", so that wouldn't have slowed me down one bit anyway.

What it boils down to is either a guy wants to make a deal or he doesn't... Some dealers just like to throw out a high-ball quote and see if you'll bite. Some want to make a deal and will dicker with you til you come to agreement, or they realize they can't. I don't care to mess with either of these first two... Like our local Ford pickup dealer... we got to where we would ONLY deal with ONE salesman there... they guy was an older fellow in the USED department, and he outsold every other salesman in the place by at least 3:1 margin... BUT, it was "no games". He'd quote you the lowest price he could go, and try to make something happen with your trade. If you didn't want to spend that, he'd try to find something else more in your price range, as good as you could get for that money. We literally did car deals with him in less than 30 minutes from walk in the door to drive out in the new vehicle. THAT is how to do business, and how he beat the pants off all those other salesmen... While they'd waste half a day trying to screw someone over playing games, he had sold 2 more cars or trucks...

Heck we bought a NEW 91 F-150, and when we were looking on the lot we had salesmen swarming over us like flies, but I blew right past them and went to Daniel, our friend. We talked with him and made the deal, but he told us "hey guys, that's a NEW truck and I can't sell you a new truck myself, since I'm in the USED department... but my son is a new vehicle salesman so I'll get him to do the paperwork on the deal we've made, okay?" "Sure, fine by us..." He typed up the paperwork in his son's name, the kid came out of the building to the used office and walked us through the paperwork, signed off on it, and handed us the keys... I guess they worked out how to swap the commission between themselves-- not my problem. In time, though, I guess the other salesmen didn't like that... they'd get plumb PO'd when they'd come up with their slick willy handshake and you'd immediately ask for Daniel... LOL Look like they bit into a soured prune...

Oh well... again, it comes down to "either wanting to make the deal or just looking to play games"... If you want to make the deal, quit playing games, quit playing "bait-n-switch" and "oh, you don't want one of those-- you want *what I want to sell you*..." I don't make major purchases without doing research first... course if you've got LEGITIMATE information on *why* I shouldn't buy what I have in mind, well, I'm listening... but then, WHY are you carrying something *you don't want to sell*?? Like I said, most of the dealers here carry some of these "competitive brands" just to keep anybody else from becoming a dealer and selling them. WHY some of these "competitive companies" fall into that trap and give their dealerships to big boys only intending to keep them from competing with their "dealer brand" sales, I'll never understand... Sales figures should tell the tale...

Anyway, yep, you're right... welcome to ag in the 21st century-- get big, or get out... it's everywhere...

Later! OL JR


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Who pays sales tax on farm equipment? We don't have to anywhere I know of in the midwest.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Wth Luke.....are you kidding me? Do we have a report due in the morning on that essay.....and is there cliff notes available? Once again I find myself agreeing with you....good thing I took that speed reading class in the 11th grade, have to go to work today.....sometimes it's good to give the abridged version of the story....lest you lose folk with your labyrinth of words....


I used to think Hay Wilson in tx was long winded. Not anymore!


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