# Timothy vs orchard?



## osrudbob

With all the research I have been doing, I keep getting timothy. But the people on here seem to think I should use orchard. I live in central NH, which one should I use for grazzing horses?


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## mulberrygrovefamilyfarm

Guess I'll take a stab, but since I'm in NW Iowa this is one of those "here" answers. Here, orchard grass performs well under grazing. Since it's more of a bunch grass it takes grazing well as long as it's managed well. When we graze timothy (I've never grazed a strait stand of timothy its always been in with something else) even under good management it tends to get grazed out and has to be reseeded.


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## UpNorth

Your climate in NH may favor timothy grown for hay. However timothy has a shallow root system and will be damaged much more than the root system of late maturing orchardgrass.

I'd also encourage you to consider endophyte free tall or meadow fescue.


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## rjmoses

I've tried several timothy/OG/clover/alfalfa/bluegrass mixes here in the West Central Illinois several times in my pastures. Timothy just can't seem to take the abuse of hooves and any significant grazing because of its root system. Most of it is gone after 2 years. I'm finding bluegrass seems to be the most durable. Also timothy, being a cool season grass, goes dormant when the temperature gets above 85, so it might work better in your area than here.

One study I read about endophyte free fescue indicated that, while you planted it as endophyte-free, within two-three years your field will be infected by the fungus from your neighbor's fescue. Endophyte precautions are only necessary for pregnant mares--it can cause them to abort. Further, the fungus lives in the seed head, so livestock can graze OK after seeds have dropped. For geldings and non-breeding stock, it is OK.

Ralph


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## UpNorth

rjmoses,

How frequently are you rotating the horses through your paddocks in your pastures? When the bluegrass is becoming dominant it's often a sign of overgrazing. 20-30 days of rest between grazing each paddock will be more favorable for the orchardgrass in that mix.

Also I'm guessing the tall fescue article you read was talking about plants in Missouri or somewhere else farther south where the old variety KY 31 was pretty common. We've had a lot dairymen up here growing in pastures and for silage without problem. Also I don't think a lot folks in NH are growing the fescues, but that endophyte moving around definitely would need to be considered farther south or if there was a lot of KY 31 around.


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## rjmoses

I have about 50 ac split into 5 pastures for 15 horses. I keep them in herds of 4-6 and try to rotate about every 4-5 weeks. I fertilize the pastures with 100# urea, non-alfalfa hay fields with 200#. Soil tests show 80-100 units P, 270-330 units of K, PH around 6.7. I soil test all my ground every 2.5 ac. every other year.

I haven't started them on pasture yet this year.

We had 2 years of extreme drought when things really got hurt, followed by two years of above average rain. 2008 was a record! On the second year of drought, I was feeding hay in August. I plan on redoing one 8 ac pasture this year.

I'm getting a lot of annual grasses and weed pressure from my neighbor's CRP ground. One has about 50 ac in "prairie grasses" that look just like thistle, johsongrass, foxtail, etc. Another neighbor has about 40ac in CRP, not as weedy, but never mowed or burned in 10 years.

Your thought about the blue grass is a good one. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks

I had about 40 ac of OG/timothy hay that is now all OG.

Our soil is largely clay--so much so that there use to be a large brick factory a few miles from here in the early 1900's that supplied St. Louis and Chicago! I wonder if that has an effect on the timothy?


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## hayray

Bluegrass is a good option for grazing pressure because the growing point is basically at ground level. However, as far as yield goes bluegrass is pretty low yielding but it is a compromise for persistance from grazing pressure, especially with horses having a almost continuous, 18 hours per day grazing habit and pretty selective on certain spots. How are you rotating your horses? I have always had a difficult time grazing horses versus cattle as far as getting good pasture utilizaiton and not beating up the growing points on grasses. One note on bluegrass, make darn sure you are buy pure seed of Kentucky Blue, we are having alot of problems with roughstalk bluegrass (Poa Trivialis) which apparently is mixed in with some turf mixes for shade tolerance - very invasive and makes 1st cut alfalfa look like straw. started spraying Select Max this spring because is ruining some of my 1st cut.


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## tnwalkingred

Here in TN the grass of choice for grazing is fescue. The only drawback to fescue is if you have a pregnant mare you need to take her off the fescue usually within the last month of pregnancy. I have been grazing horses for years and have never had a problem with my fescue stand. I typically put my mare in a "dry lot" the last month and find a high quality hay (not fescue of course)to feed her in addition to the mare and foal feed. Other than fescue I would recommend Orchard grass. Not sure how it would grow if your climate but it is by far the most popular option around here for horse people. Hope some of this helps.

Kyle


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## Barry Bowen

Upnorth gave you the best answer. Timothy will make a great hay field where you are. It will come in during the later summer, but does not stand up to foot traffic well at all. The OG will do much better as long as you do not let them graze it down close at all. It seems here in the North East that if you do not have to keep mowing the pastures during the summer, you have too many animals on them. Maybe check with your local seed people and see what pastures mixes some of them recomend for your area and plant something that has more than 2 or 3 varieties in it for a more diverse stand.


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