# Business in Jeopardy?



## IH 1586

It's official, 20 years ago when dad got sick and passed, the farm that was entrusted to mom was never setup for future security. 2004 she put new husband on all the ground and for the last 5 years + we have been trying to get answers if our future here was taken care of, have asked to buy and just get "were working on it", "will let you know soon". Well soon has arrived and a divorce is happening. He is the type of guy that will take for himself with no regard to others. Have had several items "disappear" that were dads and held on to thinking where they were was safe. Even the house we live in will be worthless as it is just a plot of land less than 0.8 acre. Water well and septic are all farm ground. Since 2018 mom had made it sound like it was over and he went to Florida to buy a house but couldn't find anything to his liking for $250,000. Now he wants to take what isn't his and we have no idea of our future now from day to day. He is not from this area, has no ties to this area, and not well liked in this area. He is very cozy with 2 local farmers that are relatives as well and getting the feeling he may be taking it for them maybe?? He hasn't been happy when I came back and built a successful business and taking back the farm land.

Thank you for giving me a place to rant. Couple excerpts from 2 years ago when things started to look questioning.

I'm not sure what all is going on, I was hoping you and Rex could work
it out together. I know Rex wants to switch stalls with you, use some
more of that space in that one building. This came about because the
neighbor felt badly about driving on your yard while getting one of the
trailers, or returning it, I'm not sure which.

For the most part Rex has stayed out of your way lately, I thought,
hoped, things were working out pretty well. I sure wish the two of you
could work together better. I know you don't see eye-to-eye. I do
remind Rex of what you have put into the place, he reminds me we still
own it, etc etc. And you both have tempers that flair easily. And I
get stuck in the middle.

Love you, Mom

He did talk to me and never said anything else about moving the stuff. They were empty and nothing moved, so figured he changed mind. I'm not going to waste the space if he changes his mind which we know he would do and not let me know if he did. I did say it was my understanding that I've had access to the 2 stalls and that I have never had both of them as there has been stuff in them the whole time. I have a hard time understanding why people feel the need to drive through the yard when there is a huge driveway right there to turn around in as well as a bunk they can drive around if they can't back up. He can move his stuff around and use up more space. It's not hard to send a text so I can move the equipment out of his way when he is ready. I did mention renting the place when he said we don't rent it but don't think he liked it when I told him he would have to fix it so it could utilized. Also mentioned wanting more space to store equipment as we're growing and more equipment is outside but he seemed more concerned about his thousand dollar trailers than tens of thousands of dollars equipment we use to make a living. Billing Jo and I are looking to have a meeting with you and Rex about the insurance on the buildings and also some other related items. When Rex wants to rearrange his stuff and tie up more space he can text me and I will move the equipment out of his way but I'm not going to look at empty space and not utilize for the business.

Love,

Chris and Billing Jo

PS he does know this is not a hobby we're doing but a full fledged business that were doing to make a living. We have decided that if there is no hope here that if the end result is is a waste land and junk buildings than we're just going to sell out and move. How would what we need to utilize be any different than if we were milking. We are utilizing the farm in a different aspect but still need the space. We are prepared to rent but then the repairs would not be on us and there are many more that need done as we cannot afford it.

Yup, a miscommunication can cause tempers to flair fast. No one is trying to put you off the farm. I just wondered about the shed, I will talk to him about that. It's what I figured, he didn't move the stuff when he first talked to you about it.

We are looking to redo our wills, and in doing that I want to talk to the lawyers to see how to protect the farm for you and the grandchildren. My biggest concerns are keeping it safe if Rex and I require nursing home care, and from Jami if, heaven forbid, something were to happen to you. As the mother of your children, she could gain control of a portion of it I believe. I want to see what the options are, I have a lot of questions I want answers to.

I'm sorry if I upset you, it's been a hell of a day here. Tomorrow I have a board meeting, that headache is even bigger. You two take care.
Oh, and on the insurance, Rex's name is on everything....does it have to be on the policy too?

*This one was the best yet*

Well, if you wanted to piss Rex off with your driveway markers, you have, royally. Believe he is heading to a lawyer to confirm the right of way to that shed. You might want to remove them, I'd appreciate it for now. This has really blown out of proportion, on both sides.

Thanks for letting the boys spend the day with us, I think they enjoyed it. And you never got this email!

ME:

Not trying to start anything, they are also there so Richie's drivers know where the yard is as they have issues with that also. I remember a time when nobody would think of driving on grandma's yard but now we're here the hell with us. We have yet to receive a thank you for the work we do to keep it looking nice and to try to bring the buildings back from their graves. We are really starting to think this whole business idea is a mute point.

On a different note why were we not asked about the barn cleaner if we wanted to purchase it to keep it there before it was ripped out. I wonder if I need to move the hay out of the barn as I don't know if the barn is the next thing to go. Amish getting a lot of money for those old barns.

We have insurance on his buildings, we maintain his roads his driveway his fields his land, his buildings. Almost should be paying us.

And don't ever let him claim he was taking care of grandma's. There was water issues that were a direct result of him not knowing how to take care of the milk house. Him or Matt.

Really all this because of stakes seems easier to just drive in the driveway. May be time to find ourselves a farm. By the time we can buy this there won't be anything left.

My question is why are you letting him destroy everything that dad and Grandpa built. Be a different story if he invested into the place. But he has removed how much timber and what has he done to improve/maintain any of it. I only hope that a good portion of the timber that dad grew is going into your investments.

One other question in regards to the will. If heaven forbid you went first what would stop him from changing them. We need to know the purchase price of each individual parcel. We have been in talks with our loan officer buying appears to be our only way to protect our future.

MOM:

I tend to agree with you on most of these issues Chris, and it may soon be behind us. This whole thing has been a problem, I don't know why Rex doesn't see my side of things. As it is, my marriage is probably over, I'm tired of it all myself. Give me some time, and please keep this under your hat. I shouldn't even be saying this much at this point. Please give me a little room here. I have the same concerns you do. But please don't say anything to anyone at this point.

This was all 2 years ago done venting.


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## Tx Jim

Having endured a divorce 40 yrs ago I still remember all the anxiety it caused my 2 daughters & me. I hope all turns out for the best for you & your family.


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## Ox76

I do not envy your position. Hope things turn out for you. I couldn't press the like button, even if just to show you I read it.


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## Aaroncboo

I hate to say it but that kind of stuff happens all too much. Three or four farms in this area have sold and destroyed families because there was no communication. The farm I'm on is for sale now. my grandma was an only child and my mom is an only child and I'm 1 of 4 but the only one that wants to farm in any way. I've been dreading that the same thing will happen... I'd rather keep the family than the farm or money but I fear the siblings might see it another way. I feel for you and understand what it's like to farm not knowing if you will be able to next year. Questioning putting money into things you may never be able to fully utilize. Every day waking up wondering if you are going to have the conversation about how you have been sold out from underneath you and have no home or farm anymore. Hurts even more when its family land and even more so when someone who's not blood trys to take it over... I know what it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Keep up the fight and keep us updated.


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## stack em up

This sucks to read Chris. When people get their noses into things that are none of their business it can turn into a crapola show. Fight for what’s yours, your Dad would have wanted you to, I’m sure of it.


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## IH 1586

We were able to confirm this season...I think. In having conversations it became clear that with this type of divorce you don't use a local lawyer. Sent mom a name that came up and nothing. No longer communicating with us, no meeting, no thank you, nothing. Sure makes it hard as what we doing this year directly affects next year. The 80 acres we were getting back next year, we can't prepare for that now. Still replacing one roof but have put all other maintenance on hold now.

In the meantime we are scouting defunct farms with pastures that may take our cattle if this goes bad. Wife is keeping track of farms for sale. Beautiful estate I used to do custom work for going on the market. Caretaker is trying to drive up land prices with it. 1 million is what he is trying to get. Which coincidentally is the same price mom's husband thinks this place is worth. May be worth $400k on a good day.

We are offered ground left and right but most is marginal and been out of use for years. We keep passing on it cause were maxed out with getting the rest of the farm ground back next year.


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## carcajou

Been hoping this would turn out better then it has for you. Unfortunately status quo is sometimes the best one can hope for to buy some time. All the best


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## Ox76

Keep your head up and keep fighting on, bud. Always try to remember that God has a plan for all of us and although we may not know how or why, things are going to go a certain way. But things won't just be given to us either, so that's why we must always fight on. At the end of this I'll bet that you'll look back on it and think "Hmm. This IS better this way!"


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## RockmartGA

This thread is a perfect example why estate planning is so important - it's not just for the rich and famous.

Love may be blind, but as many people who have gone through a divorce can attest, that "love of your life" can turn into green eyed monster when divorce lawyers get involved. Many of the participants on Haytalk have farms and property worth hundreds of thousands, if not several millions of dollars. Get things in writing.

My wife's biological father is a perfect example. Remarried late in life to a woman who was a golddigger. When he passed, she sold / gave to her kids the family heirlooms. Found out she had convinced him (or maybe she forged the paperwork) to change his beneficiaries in all his accounts and insurance policies to list her as the sole beneficiary. Basically, his blood heirs got nothing from his estate.


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## stack em up

RockmartGA said:


> This thread is a perfect example why estate planning is so important - it's not just for the rich and famous.
> 
> Love may be blind, but as many people who have gone through a divorce can attest, that "love of your life" can turn into green eyed monster when divorce lawyers get involved. Many of the participants on Haytalk have farms and property worth hundreds of thousands, if not several millions of dollars. Get things in writing.
> 
> My wife's biological father is a perfect example. Remarried late in life to a woman who was a golddigger. When he passed, she sold / gave to her kids the family heirlooms. Found out she had convinced him (or maybe she forged the paperwork) to change his beneficiaries in all his accounts and insurance policies to list her as the sole beneficiary. Basically, his blood heirs got nothing from his estate.


We are working on this very thing, estate planning. Lots of details to iron out, but one that has been already completed was my idea. Anything that is pertaining to the farm will be only dealt with by direct family. No wives/children. Must have common familial DNA in order to have a say in what goes on. Seems a little extreme? Probably. But I refuse to let anyone who has no ties to this land get their fingers in it.


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## r82230

stack em up said:


> No wives/children. Must have common familial DNA in order to have a say in what goes on. Seems a little extreme? Probably.


This is what I recommend (not just wife's, but husband's, significate others included) to client's. Not extreme at all IMHO. Outsiders don't always have the same 'feelings' towards the process. Perhaps they see it as $$$$$.

However, there can be downfalls with this approach too. But those to can be partially addressed, if you think outside the box. Example: property that is close to urban area could have a farm value that is much different than developed value. If someone inherits property at farm value, then sells shortly there after as development value (would this be fair?). In this case I have them talk about a time period, that could be appropriate, before sale could happen. Eg 10, 15, 20 years, it shouldn't be forever, is my thought.

Try to get everyone to look at the deal from the other guy's shoes. Fair and equitable do not have the same meaning.

Second and later marriage's have some of the same problems.

Larry


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## Aaroncboo

While I agree to keep a mostly blood relative I feel like there's a fine line with wives. Over the last 10 years my wife has had more than her share of Blood Sweat and Tears working that farm. Where are my three siblings want nothing to do with it. While they should be included in the sale their wives or husbands should absolutely not. But I feel like after a certain amount of time the wife who's been invested in the property should have as much say as a sibling who wants nothing to do with it. Just my thought.


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## paoutdoorsman

Just read this Chris. Missed your original post. Sorry to hear about the struggle. I wish you all the best, and hope things work out favorably in the end.


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## JD3430

Aaroncboo said:


> While I agree to keep a mostly blood relative I feel like there's a fine line with wives. Over the last 10 years my wife has had more than her share of Blood Sweat and Tears working that farm. Where are my three siblings want nothing to do with it. While they should be included in the sale their wives or husbands should absolutely not. But I feel like after a certain amount of time the wife who's been invested in the property should have as much say as a sibling who wants nothing to do with it. Just my thought.


My wife and I are currently and have been for well over a year, caring for my wife's dementia stricken mother. It's very stressful and affects the happiness of our family.

My wife's brother and sister have called and visited her at my home exactly....wait for it....ZERO times!! And yes, they both live nearby. Shameful. I have given my MIL a lot more care than her own children. 
I don't want a damn thing for it, not even a cookie or a pat on the back. Did it to be a good person. So I guess my MIL splits her will 3 ways? Or gives it to my wife and I? I don't give a rats ass. But my wife's brother and sister ain't never cleaned crap or pee pee out of a bed or brought food to someone too el-loco to know where they are.

I think the OP has a different situation and blood IS thicker than water, but damn it, I've seen plenty of instances where an in law or a friend does more than a brother or sister for a dying relative


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## Gearclash

stack em up said:


> We are working on this very thing, estate planning. Lots of details to iron out, but one that has been already completed was my idea. *Anything that is pertaining to the farm will be only dealt with by direct family. No wives/children*. Must have common familial DNA in order to have a say in what goes on. Seems a little extreme? Probably. But I refuse to let anyone who has no ties to this land get their fingers in it.


I won't say that is a perfect idea but I sure see your point. My father in law's mother owns land (not a lot) that my father in law farms. My father in law would like to buy that land when his mother dies. If he had only his own siblings to deal with (even though there are many of them) I think it would get worked out. It is the spouses of the siblings that guarantee it will turn into a flying sh!T show.


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## Aaroncboo

JD3430 said:


> My wife and I are currently and have been for well over a year, caring for my wife's dementia stricken mother. It's very stressful and affects the happiness of our family.
> My wife's brother and sister have called and visited her at my home exactly....wait for it....ZERO times!! And yes, they both live nearby. Shameful. I have given my MIL a lot more care than her own children.
> I don't want a damn thing for it, not even a cookie or a pat on the back. Did it to be a good person. So I guess my MIL splits her will 3 ways? Or gives it to my wife and I? I don't give a rats ass. But my wife's brother and sister ain't never cleaned crap or pee pee out of a bed or brought food to someone too el-loco to know where they are.
> I think the OP has a different situation and blood IS thicker than water, but damn it, I've seen plenty of instances where an in law or a friend does more than a brother or sister for a dying relative


I'm sure my wife would feel the same way you do. She wouldn't want to be a wedge between siblings.

I really do hope that you reach an agreement that gives everyone a chance to be heard and understood. It would be nice to reach a civil agreement...


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## JD3430

Separate but loosely related off the farm example. My father was a successful framing contractor and builder. I worked for him anytime he needed help for ~10 years. One day he walked up to me on a job site where we built the last house in a small 8 house subdivision we built and told me he was retiring to the golf course. 
I was dumbfounded because he was only 54, but wondered if it was an opportunity for me. I was about 23 at the time. Sat down with mom & dad, explained I had put a lot of hours into the business, like the work, and would like to have the honor of keeping it going. I was immediately rejected. In disbelief, I asked why and the reply was "giving you our thriving business is unfair to your brother and sister". I didn't understand at the time, but now when I break bread with my siblings, I understand what they did was the right thing. It would have created a fracture in our family if he gave me the business that would probably still be going on today.
Comes as little support to the OPs situation, but these family businesses are tricky to hand down unless it goes in such a way that everyone in the "family" is properly compensated. 
I, too hope the OP is able to get his situation resolved. I wonder if an arbitrator of some kind would be able to work as a go-between? Maybe open up communication?


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## Ox76

It's pretty clear that every situation has its own variables as to what is best to do when the time comes to read the will after a death. Could it be as simple as "whoever has done the most for this farm has the most say in what will happen to it"? Because I'm on the same page that although blood is thicker than water, some blood is just as black as the souls of the people it's flowing through. I've only got one sibling and I've "divorced" him. He's one of the biggest liars and downright selfish pricks I've ever had the displeasure of coming across. It's a shame it took me decades to sniff him out, but that's another one of my many weaknesses - I'm a trusting fool. And he's got our father believing all his lies because he's so damn good at lying and manipulating. Is what it is. I basically don't have a brother or a father anymore and I prefer it that way. My stress levels have fallen quite a bit since I woke up and smelled the coffee. Not looking for sympathy, just stating facts here!


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## Aaroncboo

Sometimes you have to trim the family tree to keep it alive and growing. We've all done it I'm sure...


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> Separate but loosely related off the farm example. My father was a successful framing contractor and builder. I worked for him anytime he needed help for ~10 years. One day he walked up to me on a job site where we built the last house in a small 8 house subdivision we built and told me he was retiring to the golf course.
> I was dumbfounded because he was only 54, but wondered if it was an opportunity for me. I was about 23 at the time. Sat down with mom & dad, explained I had put a lot of hours into the business, like the work, and would like to have the honor of keeping it going. I was immediately rejected. In disbelief, I asked why and the reply was "giving you our thriving business is unfair to your brother and sister". I didn't understand at the time, but now when I break bread with my siblings, I understand what they did was the right thing. It would have created a fracture in our family if he gave me the business that would probably still be going on today.
> Comes as little support to the OPs situation, but these family businesses are tricky to hand down unless it goes in such a way that everyone in the "family" is properly compensated.
> I, too hope the OP is able to get his situation resolved. I wonder if an arbitrator of some kind would be able to work as a go-between? Maybe open up communication?


You're a lot nicer than I am. I have poured my blood,sweat, and tears into our farm to keep it productive and moving forward. Why should someone who hasn't been involved in the last ______ years be treated the same as someone who made sure it was still there? My parents understand this and have made it abundantly clear to my 2 eldest brothers they will not be treated the same. One brother understands this but other brother and his succubus still want their share. Life isn't fair and equal


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## JD3430

Every situation is different. Although I worked with my dad for 10 of my first 23 years, I was also fairly compensated for the work I did, so both sides (my dad and I) theoretically owe each other nothing. 
In a "one son did all the work on the farm while the other siblings did not" situation, one must investigate what the sibling that worked was compensated for his/her work if fairness is the goal. If it was "fair wages", then IMO, he/she isn't really entitled to much. If he/she worked considerable hours for free (and believe me, I know that happens with farms!!) he/she is entitled to the value of that work against the non-working siblings percentage share of the estate. 
[Documentation very important]
I would think if a elderly husband/wife farm owner have a son living on the farm and being paid reasonable, documentable wages, then that son has been compensated properly for his toil, IF the wages are adequate. Viewing from the other side, the non farm children may extrapolate that the farm working son got "free room and board" even though he was paid say $50,000/year to work the farm. Unfair as it sounds, they may actually want more than the farm siblings living rent free on the farm! Another "unknown" is how much work the farm son did in place of the parents and how much the farms son's wife and children helped! It could take a long time to "unwind" all the contributions 
Arriving at a fair number against the non farm siblings is subject to a lot of legal interpretation. That's the "art" of an arbiter. Arriving at the sweet spot where all are fairly compensated. 
It's a one at a time, every situation is different subject.

I like an arbitrator in the OPs situation, but I know it's a touchy subject and we may only know 1% of all the information


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## stack em up

I couldn’t agree more. It would be very difficult to make it fair and equal any way you try to slice it.


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## IH 1586

JD3430 said:


> I, too hope the OP is able to get his situation resolved. I wonder if an arbitrator of some kind would be able to work as a go-between? Maybe open up communication?


I don't get a say in anything. It's in the lawyers hands. I just get to wait for the end results. 100% of our business is tied to this decision, that's why for the last five years we have offered to buy, find out how things were setup, anything so we knew what we were preparing for. She even brought it up first at a dinner. Said we needed to know how things were setup. Never would have bought this house and/or would not have sold my other one.

In the end it wasn't protected and he will take whatever he can get his hands on. I finally got in touch with mom, she's been sick past month or so. Thanked me for the recommendation. For now she will continue with the local lawyer. It's very apparent she is going to attempt this on her own with no assistance. I welcome a middle man, wished had done that when I took the farm over when dad passed instead of just excepting whatever mom's lawyer said. Might still be milking had I done that


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## IH 1586

Update:

There is no update. Still sits as it did last year. Covid did no favors for moving this through the courts and if he doesn't agree this can take years to resolve.

If nothing changes will get the last batch of land back this year BUT it is also the piece that has the most chance of getting taken away so limited on how much work I put into it. This last piece puts us just shy of 300 acres of hay. Here's to a productive 2021.


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## IH 1586

Finally had a meeting with mom on this matter. He is going for everything he can. Good news she has a lot in her favor to the point where she could get alimony which will piss him off. Bad news ground still at risk but have options if it needs to be purchased in a hurry. Saw opinion of values for all the pieces and it's priced where I feel it should be and not the inflated prices that ground seems to be selling for lately.

Nothing has been filed yet so we are still operating without a clue.


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## paoutdoorsman

Best of luck Chris! Hope this all gets worked out for you.


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## carcajou

Agreed hope it works out well for you.


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## IH 1586

Update. Here we are still living in the unknown. The only changes has been that he emotionally abused her to the point of her moving out of her home she built after dad passed and he hasn't wasn't happy with the timber appraisal prices so he is having it done again.


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## paoutdoorsman

Not the update I was hoping you would be able to post here. Press on Chris. I'm sorry things are going this way.


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## IH 1586

Seems time for another update......................That's about it. I believe it will be finalized this fall in front of a judge.


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## BirdDoc

Sounds like you don't live in the Deep South with access to aligator swamps. Darn things be causing all sorta accidents and whatnot.


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## IH 1586

This week it was finalized. Mom has full control of the land again and for the first time since 2017? we feel we can make upgrades and improvements without wondering if it would be taken out from beneath us.

And he is moving back to Tennessee.


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## Ox76

Hooray! I'm glad for you.


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## danwi

Glad you are having a positive outcome. It may seem like a relief but keep on going and purchase the farm from you mother on a land contract so the farm ends up in your hands and you don't have to deal with problems again.


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## Vol

IH 1586 said:


> This week it was finalized. Mom has full control of the land again and for the first time since 2017? we feel we can make upgrades and improvements without wondering if it would be taken out from beneath us.
> 
> And he is moving back to Tennessee.


Chris, I was so glad to hear that your mom has re-gained control of your family farm. The only thing that I was sorry to hear was that the gold digging trouble maker is moving back to Tennessee. 

Best Regards, Mike


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## IH 1586

Vol said:


> Chris, I was so glad to hear that your mom has re-gained control of your family farm. The only thing that I was sorry to hear was that the gold digging trouble maker is moving back to Tennessee.
> 
> Best Regards, Mike


I knew an apology was in order when I typed that. Sorry about that.


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## Vol

No need to apologize, "the truth shall set you free....". I hope that your family can now make preparations for a smooth transition. This could end up being a blessing for you. 

Regards, Mike


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## paoutdoorsman

Chris, this makes my day. So glad to hear this. Great news!


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