# Need help getting hay field started.



## ClarksvilleTx (Dec 31, 2011)

Hey everyone, I know this question will make a lot of you just fall out laughing but, here goes. I just bought 63 acres in Clarksville, Tx. It has been cultivated in the past"a while back", but I just want to make it a grazing pasture for animals. I wont be retireing from the Army for another 5 years or so, but I wanted to get hay for either renting it out for bailing until I build on it. The land is clear, flat, soft, and no irrigation. I'm a simple man and to be honest dont understand a lot of farm jargon, but I'm pretty smart for an Infantry Platoon Sergeant. Any advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Also I saw a post early about a seminar in Waco, is there one comming up this new year also? I live in Copperas Cove right now while I am stationed at Fort Hood and Waco is only 45 minutes away thats something that I would be interested in going to and learning some new things. I was thinking Tifton 85 from things I have read, but like I said I dont know anything about the subject. All replies are welcome and appreciated. Thank you.


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## kyfred (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks for your service to our country. I am in Ky but if I were in your shoes talk to some neighbors and see what they have or would recommend . I would check with your county extension agent also. Those guys are a wealth of info and get paid to help with questions like yours also. There will be others on this site that will have good information for you also.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I second both talking to neighbors and the extension agent.
I remember years ago not feeling "worthy" enough to call the county agent. He was more than easy to work with. He actually liked talking to a farmer type as he said most of his calls were from people wanting to plant flowers or green fields.

I am from a different area of the country and am very interested in the Tifton 85. I have an established field of Alicia Bermuda and am going to plant 17 acres in some type pasture/hay this coming year. I will be following this conversation.

Congratulations for serving this nation long enough to be close to retirement.


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## ClarksvilleTx (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm not really sure what the county agent is, unless its the Agriculture Department, is that it?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Welcome! PM "hay wilson in TX" on this board. He's down the road from you on the other side of IH-35 with a wealth of knowledge. He'd be better than a seminar. Also, connect with "RCF" on this board. He's South of Clarksville in Sulpher Springs and he can probably get you the T-85 spriggs and sprig it for you. I'm farther South, NW of Houston. I certainly agree with your T-85 choice.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

ClarksvilleTx said:


> I'm not really sure what the county agent is, unless its the Agriculture Department, is that it?


Here's the extension service: AgriLife Extension Service Sorry, I don't know who the agent is in Red River County, but I can get you a contact on Monday

Also talk to the NRCS (USDA) agent up there. You can probably get some funding to help pay to put in the T-85.


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## kyfred (Dec 23, 2009)

The county agents in Ky are employed by the University of Ky School of Agriculture. I would think each state county agents would be employed by that states university of ag. Your county agent is your connection to a wealth of information that the ag university's have from their study's on fertilizers to animal health and whatever else concerning agriculture and other than a small fee for soil samples the advice is free to you. They will have a degree in agriculture and it is their job to give advice on ag related problems like if you have problems with sick animals and others in your area have the same problems he will report that back to the university and they will try to figure out what the problem is and advise veterinarians on their findings. Same with crops. Use your county agent that's what they are there for.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

I'll second what Mike120 and kyfred have said. Great way to start. Also, there's lot's of reading you can do in the meantime on the university websites. Good info on most all of them. Seeking local advice is a wonderful way to gain knowledge of your particular area. Every area has it's own traits. Pay attention to what others are doing too. Get to know your neighbor farmers. Most are very willing to help, at least with advice and knowledge sharing. One other thing I'd throw in, don't bite off too much at one time. Ease in to it and learn. If you tackle too much at one time, you'll likely get overwhelmed and discouraged at some point. I know I have gotten in over my head a few times, and had it not been for good friends and neighbors, I woulda quit. Best of luck!!!!
Steve


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

ClarksvilleTx said:


> I'm not really sure what the county agent is, unless its the Agriculture Department, is that it?


Go to your county's www and look up Agricultural Agent. I have tried to contact mine numerous times and he is always busy doing something for someone else and never gets back to me. Course I'm a little guy and I guess he is busy with the agribusinesses. Maybe he feels that time spent with them maximizes his effectiveness do the scale of flow down from the involvement.....and they probably are more farm moxy and are easier to talk to; experienced.

Mark


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Possibly within walking distance of your property is a Jim Guthrie, [email protected], retired AF, Possibly a neighbor and President of the East Texas Farm & Ranch Club, 
Close to (vhaby) Vincent Haby a certified authority on bermudagrass and your chosen soils. He will probably suggest a series of soil test. 
Not too far from Overton Research Center and a hot bed of great information. Dr. Vanessa Corriher, [email protected] Forage Specialist..

You can try the Blackland Income Growth seminar but it is just that for These Black clay soils.

If you wish we can lunch together at the Red Lobster. or the BX Hamburger Stand.

Something to consider 60 acres will support 11 cows and one bull. With Management. OR 4 decorative cows with minimal management.

Every year, at Overton they have a multi day training session for grazing.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

You can obtain a wealth of information on farming Tifton 85 from "Hay Wilson." Don't pass up his offer for assistance. He grows Tifton 85 on Blackland soils. Your 63 acres in Clarksville, TX in Red River County might be on blackland type soils, or it could be on sandy acid soils. How you prepare your soil for Tifon 85 depends on what it is. If you have Google Earth downloaded on your computer, please use it to locate your place, point your mouse pointer to the center of the 63 acres and record the latitude and longitude shown at the bottom of the image. Once this is done, please post these numbers. From the L & L I can determine what soils are on your acreage. From that point I will be better able to offer suggestions for how to prepare your soil for sprigging Tifton 85 bermudagrass.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

I have nothing but contempt for the Overton facility and the responses I have attempted to obtain from them. I have tweaked their www for several years, called their PhD's and all that STUFF, no responses, and I think it just plain sucks!!!!! I get a lot more info from the AG. schools in half a dozen other states and try to apply what they say to my situation in TX.

So, TAMU continue in your decree to graduate your AG majors and PFFFFFT on the little guy that needs some help. Glad I was a "HORN" HOOKEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and the help you get from the County Ag. Agent, at least in Collin County.......good luck, if you can find him, and get him in his office, and get him to answer your calls, and be what he is supposed to be..............Pffffffffffffftttttttttt......must be an ......Aggie.

I will be happy to furnish my personal info if any of them have the ........to contact me!!!!! If they have time from their "Busy Schedule"......course, like Alan Jackson says in one of his songs......I'm just the "Little Man".

Mark


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Mark, I'm sorry that you've had such bad experiences. Mine have been just the opposite, but perhaps my approach and expectations have been different.

The extension guys are very few and some cover multiple counties. I don't expect them to come to me, so I go to them. I have never had a problem getting an appointment or the answers I was looking for. Often they will point you to someone in College Station or one of the research stations. Those guys all have full-time jobs (Teaching or Research) and will generally either send you papers or point you to the relevant studies. Usually my communications with them are through email. I have found them to be very responsive and helpful. The same goes for the NRCS.

I'm not sure what you've asked for but I'd be willing to bet that the people at TAMU will give you better farming answers than the folks in Austin.....and no, I'm not an Aggie.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Texasmark said:


> I have nothing but contempt for the Overton facility and the responses I have attempted to obtain from them. I have tweaked their www for several years, called their PhD's and all that STUFF, no responses, and I think it just plain sucks!!!!! I get a lot more info from the AG. schools in half a dozen other states and try to apply what they say to my situation in TX.
> 
> So, TAMU continue in your decree to graduate your AG majors and PFFFFFT on the little guy that needs some help. Glad I was a "HORN" HOOKEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


One of them has contacted you and offered his assistance to you- Me. I am an emeritue professor, retired from the Texas AgriLife Research and Extension Center three years ago, after having conducted soil fertility research on forage crops at that Center for 27 years and am now running my own ranch. I know all those folks personally and cannot believe that you received no responses from those you contacted. However, if your approach to asking them for assistance with your forage questions sounded anything like your blog above read, and they did not respond to you, I can understand why. In civilian life one cannot act like the south end of a north-bound horse and expect people to respond graciously or otherwise to them. These people are not pvts or cpls under the thumb of a drill sergeant.

By the way, thanks for serving our country in the military.

Now, if you are serious about learning about soils, forage production, haying, livestock production, etc. on your 66 acres in the Clarksville, TX vicinity, the research and extension faculty, with assistance from several retirees, all of whom really know their stuff, will be conducting a three-day training workshop for beginning forage and livestock producers the latter part of March. See:

Grazing School 2012 « Texas AgriLife Research & Extension Center at Overton

vhaby, Aggie Class of '63


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Sonny I believe you have allowed your hound dog mouth overload a humming bird brain.

You need to use your time with a prolong and profuse apology to a good number of people. 
The Edit Post feature works.

My apologies to Clarkesvill, TX for jumping to conclusions.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Guys...unless I'm missing something here, there are two posters. The original poster was "ClarksvilleTx" who is the soldier at Fort Hood. The unhappy poster is "Texasmark", I'm not sure where in TX he is. The soldier needs help, sadly Mark just seems to have a grudge.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Mike120, you are correct and thanks for clarifying my confusion. I apologize to Clarksville, TX for the misstatements I made above directed to Texasmark. Blogs like that coming from Texasmark have no place in HayTalk.

vhaby


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

That is what I get when jumping to conclusions, in hot water.

The offer to meet at or near the Post is still valid.

I believe the Bell County Farm & Ranch conference is for January 24. There will be at least one Texas Forage Specialest there. 
It is $40 fee at the door, meal included.


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## RCF (Sep 14, 2009)

Depending on how much you want to manage the property depends on what you want to plant. While all grasses require management Tifton 85 needs to be managed the most to get its full potential. If you are just looking to be an absentee owner for a while Coastal or Tifton-44 are both good grasses with a lower initial investment.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Possibly within walking distance of your property is a Jim Guthrie, [email protected], retired AF, Possibly a neighbor and President of the East Texas Farm & Ranch Club,
> Close to (vhaby) Vincent Haby a certified authority on bermudagrass and your chosen soils. He will probably suggest a series of soil test.
> Not too far from Overton Research Center and a hot bed of great information. Dr. Vanessa Corriher, [email protected] Forage Specialist..
> 
> ...


I have tried Overton several times and can't get any help, either from what they have published on their www site or from calling their authorities.

Where are you located to claim the stocking rates you mention? I assume management means cubes and supplemental hay.

What is a decorative cow??????? one for the tax assessor/collector to see. Grin.

I am on Houston black clay and easily run a small cow calf operation with a lot of Fescue taking care of the winter pasturing and coastal the summer at the rate of 2 ac per grown animal. It started to get bleak last fall with the drought, but we have had enough moisture the past few months and with adequate fertilization, my winter pastures are in great shape. Hay consumption is minimal and it is excellent hay.

I just want some heavy rains to fill up the pool/pond/tank to keep my newly acquired catfish robust......after the drought killed off my bragging rights crop of cats and bass last summer.

Mark


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Where are you located Ten miles east of I-35 & half way between Waco & Austin.

management means having enough forage to carry the stock with out supplemental feeding. Maybe a lick wheel or some cotton seed for the really sorry month of February.

Now this may appear to be strange advise from a commercial hay grower. My customers are cattlemen who want some quality hay at the barn in case of a sick animal. 
Alfalfa for Dairy Goat people, who tend to have more animals than they have forage. 
Coastal for horse owners who have more animals than they have annual forage.

The truth is in these Blackland soils in Bell County, it is possible to stockpile summer forage for winter use. 
Management means having a number of pastures to be able to rotate grazing, some call that managed grazing.

What is a decorative cow??????? one for the tax assessor/collector to see. Grin Well that is close. I have a few who buy hay that do not have enough forage to support commercial cow herd. So they specialize in one to maybe 10 animals, usually something pretty to look at. Longhorns, or one of the English breeds that look good standing around. here the Tax Assessor assumes a horse is a hobby not an agricultural enterprise. 
Some forget about cattle and have a small flock of hair type sheep. A couple times a year they haul a trailer load to San Angelo for the meat packer there.

a lot of Fescue taking care of the winter pasturing and coastal the summer at the rate of 2 ac per grown animal. If you make that work you are to be congratulated. Here in this climate and this soil Fescue will die out the during our normal summer drought. A few in town like fescue for a winter lawn, but it uses a small fortune in water. North of DFW it may work, but that is a different world than here.

With all "improved" forages fertility is a major key. I fertilize for 8 tons of 12% CP hay. That says 8 tons of 2% nitrogen. Eight times 40 is 320 lbs of actual nitrogen. 
If you are grazing you do not need that much. With Intensive Grazing where the animals put all their waste back on the sod 110 lbs of actual nitrogen will do. 
With most of the Houston Clay soils one 350 lb application of a 32% nitrogen fertilizer will do the trick. 
Now if our friend Clarksville is on East Texas Sand he will want to figure small applications every 3 or 4 weeks.

I have one, just one, neighbor who seldom if ever feed hay to his cattle. Always makes money to boot. 
My Oldest lives just north of FW and a number of those pastures have plenty of forage. Those ranches are big enough to be able to ship their animals to pastures that has forage. 
Excellent Management.


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