# Winter Fertilizing



## gdutson (Nov 12, 2009)

Hello all,

First time poster here.

I have approx. 20 acres in grass hay that gets harvested every year and then grazed until late fall. Soil is mostly clay and gets so wet in the late winter/spring that I can't get on it to fertilize until mid June and I typically cut and bale it in July. Needless to say I fight a bit of moss that comes on in real strong in spring until the grass gets high enough to start to choke it back out.

I am trying to find ideas for increasing my yield and reducing the moss. Since I still have a window of a couple more weeks before it gets too wet to drive on, should I try and fertilize now and if so, any recommendations as to the mixture?

Thanks in advance.

Greg
Canby, Oregon


----------



## robert23239 (May 10, 2009)

I would try a subsoiler during the dry time of year and a rotary hoe in the wet time.

The subsoiler should go down more than 12 inches.


----------



## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

Sub soiler may be a big help for you opening up the ground, and best to use when very dry as it will help to shatter the plow sole and let the water drain better. What part of the country are you located in? You may have a calcium deficiency. Before you spend any money on fertilizer, what is the calcium level in your ground? Should be up in the 3500-4000 lbs per acre for healthy soil. They way you say the clay is behaving, I would guess it to be a lot less then that. Try putting some heavy lime on before you fertilize, two, four or even six ton to the acre. Only use high calcium lime, NEVER use high mag as it will only tie up your soil further.


----------



## gdutson (Nov 12, 2009)

Barry Bowen said:


> Sub soiler may be a big help for you opening up the ground, and best to use when very dry as it will help to shatter the plow sole and let the water drain better. What part of the country are you located in? You may have a calcium deficiency. Before you spend any money on fertilizer, what is the calcium level in your ground? Should be up in the 3500-4000 lbs per acre for healthy soil. They way you say the clay is behaving, I would guess it to be a lot less then that. Try putting some heavy lime on before you fertilize, two, four or even six ton to the acre. Only use high calcium lime, NEVER use high mag as it will only tie up your soil further.


Barry,

Thanks for the reply. I am located in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.

If I subsoil and rotary hoe...won't I have to reseed?

Interesting point about the calcium level. Is there a test kit that I can buy or something to test my soil?

Also, I only have a 3-point spreader...what do you think of using pelletized lime?

Greg


----------



## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

QUOTE=Barry Bowen;7329]Sub soiler may be a big help for you opening up the ground, and best to use when very dry as it will help to shatter the plow sole and let the water drain better. What part of the country are you located in? You may have a calcium deficiency. Before you spend any money on fertilizer, what is the calcium level in your ground? Should be up in the 3500-4000 lbs per acre for healthy soil. They way you say the clay is behaving, I would guess it to be a lot less then that. Try putting some heavy lime on before you fertilize, two, four or even six ton to the acre. Only use high calcium lime, NEVER use high mag as it will only tie up your soil further.[/QUOTE]

First on the sub soiling, rotary hoeing, etc.--If you do that you will rip up ground and need to reseed, not to mention the compaction issues that could arise from the equipment running over your field.

My advice is to save up you money put in drain tile the next you renovate you pastures as far as the drainage goes.

Second, calcium is only one part of any fertility program. There are recommended levels that should be available through your local extension office. Extreme applications of calcium should be avoided, especially if the lime or other source is expensive. Calcium application and response are not constant across growing conditions, regions, of the county, crop rotations, etc. so start with a complete soil test, look at the local recommendations and go from there. If you have a regular liming program the calcium needs of yours crop should be met.

Plants do need a certain level of calcium, I would debate what the exact amount is with Barry above. Soils are limited by their parent material as to the amount of calcium they can exchange and pH plays a huge factor in in the availability of Ca and other minerals. There also a lot debate of Calcium being benifical to other aspects of soil fertility that aren't clearly defined, maybe in the future something will be more certain either way.

Finally there is not quick and cheap "kit" that will give you an accurate measurement of the mineral levels of your soil. A soil test submitted to a lab and tissue tests should provide accurate assessments of nutrients in the soil and in the plant.


----------



## Barry Bowen (Nov 16, 2009)

I would like to take a little time to modify and explain what I am talking about with calcium. This is no silver bullet that will cure all your problems, and it is not a one step fertility program of any kind. Calcium is however one of the more important elements in your soil. If it is low, you will not get the yield and performance you are hoping for when fertilizing. I would recommend getting a good soil sample and see where everything stands. If the calcium or the pH is low, then you know where you need to start before doing anything else. Personal experience has tought me that if I can only afford lime or fertilizer, the lime is the better investment, and the fertilizer can wait for a bit. Get the test and let me know what you find, and we can go from there. Subsoiling may still be a good tool IF you have a problem with a plow sole. Subsoiling will help open that up, but it should be dry dry to help shatter the hard ground. Lime will help open it up also, but it takes much longer.


----------



## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm not an expert on the kind of ground you have, but it seems to me that subsoiling would be the last resort? You'd have to reseed for sure, and it might solve the problem - it sorta sounds like the soil is just really wet, and drainage is poor. Does anybody else around you have trouble with wet ground? Have they done any tiling? You for sure need a soil test to find out where the nutrient levels stand. I'm betting that almost everything is low, but by bringing the pH up, will increase the availability of the other nutrients, to a certain extent. I think you have a two fold problem - the pH is low, and you need something to kill the moss. I am not sure what attacks moss, but I'm betting that some form of 2,4-D, or something similar will do the job. You have to remember, spraying for weeds costs money, BUT everything that the moss uses to grow is NOT able to be used by the grass that you make for hay to grow, so kill the moss, and the grass will grow better. Once you get the nutrients to an optimum level, then you just need to fertilize and lime according to what the plants remove each year.

Rodney


----------



## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I am like Rodney when it comes to your type of soil and I think he gave you some good advice. If it were mine, I would check the ph and add what is necessary to get the ph closer to neutral. If your ground is wet, I would look at a type of hay that will make it in land that is wetter than normal. Here in Virginia, I plant timothy ( Clair Variety) and it does very well. Just my thoughts. Mike


----------



## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

Another grass to consider is Reed Canarygrass if your soil is really wet. I know some people consider it a weed, and it's needs to be established late summer to avoid competition with spring weeds, but it could be a good fit on a wet field.


----------

