# Massey 25 rake good or bad



## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

There's a massey ferguson 25 hay rake for sale locally. It's actually 2 rakes (one in use the other for parts) and a full set of tines for about 1000. Tires look pretty good from pictures and the whole rake looks like a decent, used rake. I know it is a 3pt rate rake. Good or bad?


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm thinking it's a Ferguson DEO 25 rake, painted red. If I recall, they are designed to be operated via ground PTO - which Ferguson and older Massey Ferguson tractors had, in addition to 540 PTO, engine driven. Probably an OK rake, especially with a parts rake. I have a JD 3 pt rake and really like it. In my small, odd shaped fields, it is nimble and easy to maneuver. I think $1000 is somewhat steep and for that $$$'s, I'd probably look for something newer, like a New Holland.

Good luck,

Bill


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Ok. Thanks for the input.


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

By ground PTO do you mean the PTO speed was determined by ground speed? Don't know if I'm even close. Just spit balling


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

thendrix said:


> By ground PTO do you mean the PTO speed was determined by ground speed? Don't know if I'm even close. Just spit balling


Yes - the PTO is/was such that as the rear wheels on the tractor turned, the gearing also turned the PTO shaft. If you came to a stop, the PTO would stop.

Don't know how ground and engine PTO speeds differ - but something to be aware of when buying the rake.


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Hmm. Learn something new everyday


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Would I also be correct in assuming this is how ground driven rakes work?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounds to me like you guys are describing a ground driven rake. Not pto powered. Rake moves, wheel is connected to shaft which moves and powers rake.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

thendrix said:


> Would I also be correct in assuming this is how ground driven rakes work?


Yes - that is how a typical ground driven PTP rake would work - if driven by a wheel from the rake.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

deadmoose said:


> Sounds to me like you guys are describing a ground driven rake. Not pto powered. Rake moves, wheel is connected to shaft which moves and powers rake.


In a Ferguson 3 pt rake, there is no rear wheel with gear box or belt to drive the rake. It is driven by the tractor's pto. On Ferguson tractors and later Massey Ferguson tractors, like the 135 or my 50 diesel, there are two PTO positions. One is for engine PTO, i.e. 540 rpms and ground drive - which the rear wheels via the rear end gears drive the PTO.

If you use a ground driven PTO rake such as the Ferguson (and I think others had the option too), you used a different pulley off the PTO shaft to the rake to account for the ground vs engine PTO speeds.

I will say this about my JD350 3pt rake - it is a pleasure to use. No matter the ground speed, the rake spins the same. I can pick-up the rake crossing windrows or drop it to merge into a windrow. IMHO you have complete control with an engine driven PTO, 3pt rake.

Thanks!
Bill


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

thendrix said:


> By ground PTO do you mean the PTO speed was determined by ground speed? Don't know if I'm even close. Just spit balling


Ooh you youngsters !


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

thendrix said:


> Would I also be correct in assuming this is how ground driven rakes work?


Most ground driven rakes either have a gearbox or belts that run off the rear wheels, which are usually connected with a straight bar axle or offset with U-joints... the New Hollands use a gearbox to take power from the wheels and turn it 90 degrees and speed it up to drive the rake basket, but some older rakes by various manufacturers used belts/sheaves to drive the basket (with mule pulleys to turn the belt 90 degrees) or I've even seen some chain drives on REALLY old rakes...

PTO rakes are just that-- run off a little PTO shaft that turns a belt pulley turning one of the basket.

I had a New Holland PTO drive three point rake for awhile-- thought it would be really handy to have in some of the tight patches I baled, some with structures, fences, trees, and other obstructions in the middle of them. It worked okay, but not as handy as a pull-type ground driven rake... for one thing, the three point rake was a lot harder to hitch up to and unhitch... the PTO driveshaft and shield tended to "drag" hay a little and the hay would pile up against it as it was rolled, meaning that either the rake would plug or the windrow would be lumpy. On 90 degree corners, it made "bell shaped" ends instead of rounded 90 degree corners like a pull type ground drive rake... that made baling a lot harder. Plus, the dinky little tires on the 3 point rake were ALWAYS going flat, even with slime in them...

Traded it a few years later for a NH 256, never looked back. Got a 258 pretty reasonable at a farm sale and refurbished it, and a home-built bridge hitch with hydraulic steering for only $150, and never looked back. Rake 18 feet at a time now with the two rakes...

Later! OL JR


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

Trillium farm, I'll take that youngster comment all day and all night. If you guys haven't noticed yet, I'm new to the cutting, raking, baling side of the hay business. I've spent my life in the pick it up, get on the truck, get it off the truck side. My pawpaw used to bale with his brother but just about the time I got old enough to start learning his brother was killed in a haying accident abs pawpaw quit the hay business. His brother was loading rolls and was going up with the loader headed to the barn when he started spinning. He looked back and didn't take his hand off the lever. He used forks instead of a spear and when the loader got to the top the bale cane off and landed on him. His wife saw it and by all accounts he never knew what hit him


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Sorry to hear about yr grandpa Thendrix. They do say that farming is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. We do so many things that are dangerous on a daily basis


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## thendrix (May 14, 2015)

It wasn't my pawpaw but his brother that was killed. That's been about 20 years now. Pawpaw just passed last fall. He kinda wore a little guilt I think. He had tried to talk Bunk (his brother) into using a spear but Bunk wouldn't have it because the forks worked fine and he didn't want to spend money on something he didn't need


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