# Bale basket or Kuhns accumulator



## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Looking at either a bale basket or the Kuhn's system for nest year. What is your opinion on either.

We have mainly small patches of uneven ground. Not sure either will work for us. But need to decease the labor needed.

Another thing that I'm not sure about is that bang for the buck. I can get 3 bale baskets for the price of the Kuhn system. I realize the baskets still require unloading which looks maybe to be more folks than I would normally have at the barn. The Kuhn's would only require 1 person but an additional tractor.

How would you on paper show justification for either? When I do it a few areas that I can't put a price on screw with the final outcome. For example some of my baling help didn't show up and I have to call around and find more. Then the new folks load incorrectly and dump the load...stuff like that.

So I would appreciate you pickin apart any of this. Negative or positive I'm all ears. Thanks Mark


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

KC, you can`t even compare the 2, it`s like apples and oranges. The Kuhn is going to require, 3 people, one baling-one on the grapple-one pulling wagons. When we are aways off from storage area we use 2 wagon pullers. You want to see a mess, string those bales out with a basket!Then have fun! Our new shed has a 150x15 leanto on the side. All wagons will go under leanto and unloaded that night or first light-1 man. 1 man to reload for delivery later.We still deliver out of field to customers and they unload their own.Have had my Kuhns for 4 seasons now . I`m 4 miles from Kenny.


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

I don`t think you can get more than 70 bales in a basket. Our 9x20 wagons we put 210 on.If you insist on unloading and stacking by hand I think a thrower and rack wagons would be a better option. Just my opinion,have a good one. Ohio hay also has a kuhn system maybe he will jump in.


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

hay do you do a season?


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I bought a kuhns last year, If you saw the one at the national farm machinery show in louisville last year that one was mine. I love the machine, I can take several wagons dropped around in the field and load them by myself while one guy is baling. When we get done we pull them to the barn. The only thing is it helps if you have 9ft wide wagons ,which im slowly upgrading to. Just my 2cents thomas


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

We tried that also but seemed to tear the area up around the wagons with the skidsteer. Jim


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Jim I have noticed that also but its not to bad on my skidsteer, Ive got rubber tracks that seem to slide over the ground, It looks bad at first but after the hay grows back you cant tell you ever tore the hay up. I bought a 6430 with loader , That has 3rd function on the loader that lets me use the grappel on the front, It really speeds up loading in the field, I think ill keep the skidsteer at the barn to unload , If it wasnt for speed the skid steer is alot easier to load with. THOMAS


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

I agree with JD6400. It is hands down the best way to handle small square bales. It also is the simplist and most cost effective one on the market.

It is backed by one of the nicest guys in the hay equipment manufacturing business.

Good Luck and let us know what you choose.


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

Kenny was using a telehandler ror a while and also went to a loader tractor.I helped Ervin one day ,we were done and he was short on help.We pulled in and I ran wagons while he loaded,he was running a good size Massey I`m not good with Massey numbers but it was 100 hp plus.He could go one more layer than a skidsteer but was having a little trouble tightening the stack,one thing I picked up on was on a long field he would leave 2 wagons hooked up to the tractor which saved time.Somewhere down the line I`ll be using a tractor for the grapple and skidsteer at the shed.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

We are up to just over 300 acres. Custom bale as well as baling for our own operation. Now here is the next part, we started at 70 the year before last. Fell in to it out of the need to divesify our farm. As I have just started to look at the year in review and looking at the nearest other hay operations, I see opportunity. So making wise equipment descisions can really aid to our operation or end it. Hence the basket / Kuhns question.

What if any are the negatives to the Kuhns system?

Thanks again


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## deerrunhaycp (Oct 17, 2008)

We used to run bale basket's before we bought our stack cruiser. They work great in the beginning of the year when the barn is empty, and you have lots of room to dump them out. However, as barn space becomes tight at the end of june, and the help starts getting burned out they suck. Unless you have help that's gonna be there every day no matter what, i'd go with the kuhns. Tractors, grabs, and wagons don't complain when they get tired.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

If the baler messes up on tying you have a mess on your hands till you get the hay out of the shut and lined back out, But thats a baler issue. Ive been on some pretty steep hills that ive lost hay of wagons in the past and didnt have any problems. Besides the wagons being 9ft to make it easier to load im a pretty satisfied customer and i plan on telling kenny this year at the farm show how happy i am, And yes i would by another one.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Which size are you running? 10,15, or 18 And why that size?


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

How well do the Kuhns units handle sharp turns and waterways? I've heard they have a hitch kit for sharp turning problems. The 15 and 18 bale models look pretty tall. Had any problems with low branches etc? Don't think they would fit under my low doorways in the sheds.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I run the 15 and yes the turns can be hairpulling,Dont know if the kits they sent us works because it was so dry never got a chance to use it agian.I just try to watch and not turn to sharp. The turns arent to bad in the big feilds but the small ones are more aggravating. I wouldnt let the turn issue keep me from buying one, Its a good sound unit, believe it when you see the video thats how it works when you get it home( lol)
THOMAS


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

The very bottom of my list for hay equipment is the bale basket. It's right below thrower wagons....... They have no capacity, they are only 3 wheeled(???) and you still need as much help to unload them and stack as you would with a thrower wagon.

Any kind of accumulator system would be better than a bale basket. Especially if you're gonna do 300 acres. Kuhns, Steffen, Hoelscher, and whatever else...... if you have a tractor with hydraulic capacity, I'd opt for a Steffen over the Kuhns - only cause I don't like that the height on them, and some guys here are talking about the sharp turns..... Although, I'm not certain how the Steffen works with turns.....

I don't know what you're using now, but forget the bale basket, that's not even an option.

Rodney


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

As JD 6400 said, we also run the Kuhns system. We have run it for 4 years. Have two 15 bale models. Wouldn't do small squares any other way. We run it across 450 to 500 acres. It handles our steep hillsides real well. We have 2 people baling and I do the loading. We spot wagons and trailers throughout the fields. Have enough to hold 3,000 bales. I load with a JCB telehandler. It can stack higher than a skidloader and is more manuverable than a tractor. I have used a skid loader and it worked well too. I haven't used a tractor to load, but I imagine once you get used to it, it would work just fine. We bale alot of hillsides and contour strips and get by with sharp turns pretty good. The big thing I like is that I can unload 3,000 bales by myself without breaking a sweat or my back and that is why I would choose an accumulator over the bale baskets. Then I would chose the kuhn because it is all mechanical, so there is less to go wrong. Just my 2 cents, but if you have any more questions, we have put a bunch of bales through them.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We are running the 15's because that is what Kenny first had. Did look at the 18's this spring and were a little concerned about stability on our hills. Kenny said he sold some into some hill ground this year and we are waiting to hear how they did and then we might consider going to the bigger model.

As for negatives...I can only think of one. It is getting caught in a sudden rain storm with lots of grabs laying on the ground. We have been really fortunate and have not had this happen in four years with the exception of about 150 bales of straw this year. That is why we are loading as we are baling to help try and avoid this


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

The tip on 9ft wagons is a good one. 102" trailers aren't too bad either. Still have some 8ft wagons and you want to do a good job of stacking and get them unloaded that day.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Hadn't looked at rain, but I see what your saying.

Can I manually drop 5 if needed? I'm assuming pull on a counter weight.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

Yes, You can manually trip it anytime you want by pulling the trip mechanism. We always clean out the accumulators at the end of the day. We push the remaining bales up through the shoot and trip and dump whatever amount of hay is in the accumulator.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

How do you go about charging for the accumulator when custom baling? or do you?

thanks for the posts and help!


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I think my neighbor charges .25 or .50 cents a bale to drop and load.
THOMAS


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

Glad to see this thread is going strong. It just occured to me that we've been using the same sytem (kicker bales and wagons ) for 40 years. In that time we've also tried a pull type NH bale wagon and more recently a Hoelscher accumulator. I agree that the Kuhn system seems to be simple and economical and has a lot to offer most any size operation. My problem is a lack of good, responsible tractor operators . I could continue to do it all myself, but there's usually not enough hours in the day to get it all baled, and more importantly, in the barn. 
I have a neighbor who uses 3 bale baskets and seems very happy with it -wouldn't change , but then he operates the baler and the help puts the hay in the barn. One question I have about the Kuhn system involves how you check the bales. With a kicker sytem, I'm used to picking up a dropped bale , or stacking a few bales on the front of the wagon just to get a check on the bale weight and tension. Do you guys have a moisture monitor on the tractor and hydraulic tension control?


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## jd6400 (Jun 3, 2008)

I run a moisture tester on the baler and then usually get off after I lay the first grab down and check for size and tightness.I can usually watch my loader operater and tell whats going on also.We do have some unusual hand signals we use when a change needs to be made.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

We also run a moisture tester on the balers and then as Jim said, each operator checks the tension after dropping the first grab. After that they may check again during the day if the moisture has dropped significantly since we started. Every once in a while I'll check the bales while loading just to get a feel if any changes need to be made too.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

What mositure content do you guys perfer when dropping? I have used a moisture test and believe I need to get one. We use the old fashion method which works when it is right and doesn't when it is wrong if you get my sarcasim.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

I like around 15, 16 percent. But as you know thats a short window from wet to, to dry. When its wet in the morning i use preservative and by afternoon its probably to dry, but you have to go on if you want to get it up.
THOMAS


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## Hayguy (Jun 4, 2008)

One thing that bothers me about these accumulator systems is all the extra field traffic picking up the bales. With my old kicker bale wagons at least we get the bales off the field 135 bales at a time without a lot of extra driving around. It seems to me that the advantage of the accumulators is limited by the size of the package they put out. Just a pipe dream, but wouldn't it make sense to build a baler-accumulator machine that built say a150 bale package that you could pick up and move with something like the truck mounted stack retreivers?


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Never looked at it like that before. Need transport that is all inclusive. Which is back to the bale basket but stacked like the New holland truck/wagon. I'll think a little on that one.


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## HaySweden (Dec 27, 2008)

This thread has been down a while; refreshing it now. 
We imported a Steffen accumulator and grab some years ago to get our production up, and labour down. for us it worked well with one baler, and two tractors (one in field, one by the barn unloading) with front end loaders and one man driving wagons from the field. Our climate often gives us rainshowers, so we really need to get them out of the field right away. We load 7 bales high on wagons. We also tested large home made pallets to unload with a forklift; 70 bales a pallet. Would speed things up very much, but we aren't there yet!

With three people + two assistants (helping with bad/broken bales etc) we got super output, and could keep going even at that time in the season when half the crew normally didn't show up anymore!

The only problem we have is to get the hay dry enough to bale in dense enough bales to stack on our wagons!


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2008)

How many cuttings do you get in Sweden?

HHM


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Haysweden,
How often would a person get a bad bale when making a grab? I'm guessing that really messes up the process. When this happens in the field how do you remedy this when making the grab?
Mark


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## HaySweden (Dec 27, 2008)

Hi Hoosier Hay Man, thanks for inviting me!

We normally get 2 cuts for the horsemaket. around 10 june and around 1 september. Some producers only do one, mid july, but this is just crap; could feed straw instead!This year second cut was bigger than first. Unusual. For dairy and beef almost no dry hay is used , 99% is silage in roundbales or stacks (?), 1:st cut 1 june, 2:nd 15 july; 3:rd 1 sept. In the southern part some get 4 cuts, but not common.

For horses we use timothy/fescue/rye mixes, and for dairy we also put white and red clover in the mix. Not much alfalfa.


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## HaySweden (Dec 27, 2008)

kfarm_EC_IL said:


> Haysweden,
> How often would a person get a bad bale when making a grab? I'm guessing that really messes up the process. When this happens in the field how do you remedy this when making the grab?
> Mark


Oh, not that often, but when we have moisture we make looser bales to put on dryers, and then we need some assistance in the wagons to get the loads big and heavy!

We tried to use the accumulator to collect bales for balage, but that just don't work. For this we use thrower and rack.


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## kmacginley (Jan 25, 2009)

I will take all the bale baskets you guys want to sell.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

kmacgiley, How many do you have and why do you like them?

Mark


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## kmacginley (Jan 25, 2009)

I have two and access to plenty of good FFA kids to stack. They are pretty much trouble free. Mine are easy trails with the double front wheels and they pull down the road well. You can get 100 bales in them with no sweat. I saw that someone on here said that they would only hold 70. Not true at all. With the extensions, you can supposedly go to 130. I wouldn't know about that since I don't have them. I would like to have two more.

I am sure that the kuhn system is great, but I like my bale baskets very much.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

I have had 3 bale baskets for 15 years now and bale over 400 using them and love them. The expense of having an accumulator, then a whole nother tractor with a grappler system precludes me from ever swithing to something else. We get about 100 bales in ours no problem, pull them down a paved road that is smooth at 50 mph empty and 35 loaded and they dump on their own so all your manual labor is reserved for stacking, so no way a group of kicker wagons could even begin to keep up with a fleet of bale baskets. Plus with the accumulator system wouldn't you need a barn to be able to drive into inorder to unload and stack if you did not want to do it by hand? So the baskets for sure have their place.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Yes,
With the accumulator you would need some sort of barn to drive the grabber (either on a skid-steer, or tractor) to unload the wagons and stack the hay. A normal type barn would need a good floor and beams, or you'd need a pole shed. But, there are some places where you just can't get the labor to stack bales by hand. The folks on here that can get labor are fortunate. If we wanted to hand stack all of our hay we couldn't do it - there's only so much hay that 3 guys can stack in a day, especially if they're baling and running the stackwagon....

Rodney


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

Those of you running bale baskets, how hard is it to switch back and forth from the basket to a flat rack wagon? Thanks


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## river rat (Jan 16, 2009)

kfarm_EC_IL said:


> We are up to just over 300 acres. Custom bale as well as baling for our own operation. Now here is the next part, we started at 70 the year before last. Fell in to it out of the need to divesify our farm. As I have just started to look at the year in review and looking at the nearest other hay operations, I see opportunity. So making wise equipment descisions can really aid to our operation or end it. Hence the basket / Kuhns question.
> 
> What if any are the negatives to the Kuhns system?
> 
> Thanks again


Hired help was not for me so I went with the Bale Bandit. On a decent day 2000 bales put up, loaded, and in the shed by myself. 300 acres can justify one but they aren't for everyone. Don't mean to muddy the waters.


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## cornman (Apr 27, 2009)

Check out the Bale Caddie 1200 from Koyker Mfg. Koyker Mfg..


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## FarminFirefighter (Mar 31, 2009)

I m with you River rat, I bought a Baron...I agree not for everyone but with the custom work, the baron penciled out, I know some guys here have tried the accumulators and have had trouble keeping the grabs together on our hills....


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## fletcher.419 (Jan 2, 2010)

I am looking to use a steffen 6512 grab with my new holland 1033, mainly to pick full 15 bale lifts that the nh 1033 makes. I am killing my help with the hand loading of customer trailers from the barns - thats why i am going to the steffens 6512 on my 863 bobcat. Sound good or am i thinking in the wrong direction??


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

kfarm_EC_IL said:


> Looking at either a bale basket or the Kuhn's system for nest year. What is your opinion on either.
> 
> We have mainly small patches of uneven ground. Not sure either will work for us. But need to decease the labor needed.
> 
> Another thing that I'm not sure about is that bang for the buck. I can get 3 bale baskets for the price of the Kuhn system. I realize the baskets still require unloading which looks maybe to be more folks than I would normally have at the barn. The Kuhn's would only require 1 person but an additional tractor.


I run two EZ Trail bale baskets when I am storing in my hay mow or in my arena. Two is necessary to prevent down time while traveling from the field.

I average 85 bales/load and sometimes I'll have a kid ride in the basket to make sure the bales fall backwards when going downhill. .

I use a crew of 6-9. One sq baling, one round baling the edges/odd areas, two-three on the ground at the barn, two-three stacking, myself shuttling wagons. I use two elevators at the barn-one to get them up and one to run them across the floor. I try to make things as easy as possible for the crew.

As I remember, the best we did was around 1000 sq bales in one day without breaking a sweat.

Ralph


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## tdjjjs (Nov 16, 2009)

hayray said:


> I have had 3 bale baskets for 15 years now and bale over 400 using them and love them. The expense of having an accumulator, then a whole nother tractor with a grappler system precludes me from ever swithing to something else. We get about 100 bales in ours no problem, pull them down a paved road that is smooth at 50 mph empty and 35 loaded and they dump on their own so all your manual labor is reserved for stacking, so no way a group of kicker wagons could even begin to keep up with a fleet of bale baskets. Plus with the accumulator system wouldn't you need a barn to be able to drive into inorder to unload and stack if you did not want to do it by hand? So the baskets for sure have their place.


Showing my ignorance here, but I assumed that the bale baskets were pulled by a tractor? How are you going 50 mph with a tractor?


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

While it would be cool to have a tractor go 50, we are describing after we bale and a pick up comes to the field to grab the wagon and take it back to whatever location we are taking the hay to. I have 3 bale baskets and on a busy day a long ways from the farm I try to have 2 trucks running wagons back and forth while a third is hooked to the baler.


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## geiselbreth (Feb 21, 2010)

got a hoelsher setup cheaper than that [email protected]


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Updating with my experience with baskets, currently getting 5 more.

There was a question about switching back and forth from wagon to basket - you have to adjust tension springs on baler and you have to remove/add the chute. On my baler the chute takes about 5 mins, its 4 chains on hooks and 2 x 5/16 bolts. I'm thinking about putting a hinge to let it swing up out of the way when the baskets are on.

The hitch stays in the same place.

The baskets do only hold about 100 bales unless you get extensions but with the dolly wheel up they tow really well behind a truck as noted, 50 mph empty not a problem unless road is really bad.

They are great for delivery from the field as well because you get your basket back immediately not the next day, you just dump at customers. For long distance not as good as its only 100 bales. I'm looking to build a hitch that can clamp on and swing behind to tow doubles.

We still use wagons as well, we have several big ones that hold 250-300 bales which I like to fill behind the baler. I can let my dad fill the baskets on his own with the other baler while I have the crew. I did buy a quick hitch to make changing baskets faster as the chute pressure makes it hard for older guys and women to pull the pin.

Of course you still need people to put them into a mow, but we have that style of barn so can't get away from it.


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Tried the baskets for several seasons. Liked them at first but when labor was getting hard to get then it became a problem. Bought a used Hoelscher accumulator and two grapples, Kuhn and Hoelscher. Hire one kid to make my life little easier and wife bales while I stack on wagons. Only bottle neck is I only have four wagons and it takes little time to unload. I can bale 1200 bales and put in the barn. Baskets was a good thought at the time. I'm not doing 300 acres to warrant bale bandit, although it would be nice.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Got my 5 baskets home. Some assembly required. Already have the lower portions assembled, just need tops and gates.

This gives us a total of 6 baskets.

Once I get the rest of our wagons fixed we will have ten 20 ft long or better 8 ton wagons and the 27 ft trailer. With everything loaded that is over 3000 bales on wheels, so 2 good days baling before I have to dump a basket or unload a wagon. Goal is for the end of the season leave all of them loaded under cover for delivery.


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