# Professional Opinions Needed



## hmcohay (Jul 27, 2010)

I have grown up in the cattle business with my grandfather and father in central Texas. Grandfather is 86 and finally "handing down the reins" to me. Dad is semi-retired and traveling and not looking to start any new ventures. Up until 4-5 years ago we always baled our own hay. Tractors wore out with the rest of the equipment so been paying for custom work.

I have just purchased a 1997 NH8260 with 4300 hours(really clean unit). I will wait until winter to purchase a quality used baler, cutter and rake in hopes for better prices than right now. I am also looking at day cab trucks and float trailer to haul with. They seem like a better deal than wearing out 30,40,50 thousand dollar pickups and should last for a long time. I have been putting this plan together since I was in college 10 years ago and will pay cash for everything.

Here are my questions:
1. Most people in the Stephenville, TX area charge between $20-$25 per 4x6 per roll. (This price includes cutt, rake, bale) What do you all find you have in a custom bale? Two, Three, Five or Six dollars?

2. How many bales per year are most one man custom operations putting up. 3-5K rounds seem to be what I here from most of the local guys.

Things here in Central Texas have changed dramatically. Land and lease cost have risen to levels not profitable to cattlemen so I am looking to diverify my operation into custom work and developing more of our family land into hay production or silage for the dairies in the area. (Silage is on the back burner until the Dairy business gets corrected)

3. I am planning on trying to roll 2500-3000 bales a year and hopefully net $35k-$45k.
Is this realistic? This is custom work only.

Sorry for the long thread. Been reading hay talk for a couple of months and decided to join . The REAL WORLD knowledge this site provides in very very good and I respect and appreaciate the wisdom of our seasoned members. I am a young guy trying to figure out a way to stay in agriculture. Thanks in advance!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

> Here are my questions:
> 1. Most people in the Stephenville, TX area charge between $20-$25 per 4x6 per roll. (This price includes cutt, rake, bale) What do you all find you have in a custom bale? Two, Three, Five or Six dollars?


Your costs will be alot more than $2-6 per bale.I would say at least $10 for out of pocket expences.Fuel,net,repairs,DEPRETIATION.You will need some help also atleast moving eq.



> 2. How many bales per year are most one man custom operations putting up. 3-5K rounds seem to be what I here from most of the local guys.


Should be able to put that many up easily.But you will get a lot of small jobs doing custom work.You will have to have some decent eq to do it tho.If you are broke down you won't be baling and they will get someone else next time.



> 3. I am planning on trying to roll 2500-3000 bales a year and hopefully net $35k-$45k.
> Is this realistic? This is custom work only.


$20-35K is probably more realistic figure.Your expences are going to be higher than you think.Eq costs to own eq need to be figured in.

The big ? is how much are you gonna invest in eq.If you have 100K in eq you should at least figure 20% of it per yr depritiation & interest as an expence.So that would be 20K and if you do 2500 bales eq costs would be $8 a bale.If you can do it with 50K in eq it would be $4 a bale.

Good Luck
Cy


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## hmcohay (Jul 27, 2010)

Thank you for your insight. I plan on trying to purchase high quality JD or NH equipment due to dealer service is good for those particular product lines in my area. Looking at spending at least 80k-100k for everything. I plan to start small trying to get 2500-3000 bales in the first year and trying to build my client base to where I am baling 5000 roles annually. Just trying to diversify my operation. Again, thank you swmnhay for the response. I welcome all angles when I am looking at spending this kind of money and trying to build a business.


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## Customfarming (Oct 8, 2009)

I think it is going to be hard to put up that much hay in a one man operation especially using one tractor in that area. In our area in NE TX, most our jobs barely make the minimum which is 2 bales/acre. Make sure you charge a minimum or people will want you to cut that will make less than a bale/acre. I see it being that way down there as well. Now that being said to bale 2500 bales you will have to cover over 1000 acres. It can be done but you will have to be working hard and long hours. What will help you out the most is being able to pull the baler and rake at the same time. That way you can cut for two days straight and then bale for two days. To get people from their current custom guys is going to be hard and usually the only way is to be cheaper which is not going make you any money.

I think the spring time is going to be busy but also planning around the rains is the hard part. I think that is when you are going to bale 50-75% of your hay. July and August is usually hot and dry and not much going on. September and October will be busy if the rains come. With that being said I think somewhere around 1000-1500 bales the first year is going to be more of a realistic figure. With help and another tractor will be able to get more. Always plan on and figure doing less than what you think you can do. That way if you do more it will be a plus.

Good Luck and hope everything works out.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

I do around 150 to 200 k each year doing custom work and there is just me and a boy out of Iowa. 1 man can do a helluva lot of bales each season if you have the acres and decent equipment. always do your best , work wise and honest, never sell yourself short on a job either . You will have to learn to live on little sleep when its busy , but never weaken the season always comes to a close .Here on my place we do alot of differnt custom operations besides farm 30 1/4's .


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## hmcohay (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks Panhandle. I have tried to diversify as well with some paid for rental property. I am also trying to lease a couple of places we let go back a few years ago I know are still good. I am constantly looking for ways to make my businesses better. My wife thinks I am addicted to this site, but guys like yourself, Malpinn, Customfarming, HayWilson, Swmnhay and many others bring so many ideas and much knowledge to this site. I am trying to add to what I already know though these guys.

Thanks again!


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## gman1772 (Mar 20, 2010)

I know this post is a little old but I've been a little busy after all the rain we had down here in July. The truck/trailer combination your are looking @ will place you in the category of a Commercial Vehicle subject to CVSA ferderal roadside inspections, State and federal regulation, etc. This kicks in @ #48000 or more registered weight, acummulative GVWR, or actual weight for a farmer/rancher cultivating and harvesting his own crops and #26001 or more same stuff on a custom harvest operation. I know all of this because I am a roadside inspector for Harris Co. S.O. on my day job.

As for hay equipment I would suggest a brand new baler of you are going to put up more than 1000 bales per year for a lot of reasons. Most big custom operators trade balers in @ 10k bales to avoid equipment overhauls and downtime due to failure in the field. I am very fond of the JD "8" series balers. They have a lot less parts than NH stuff and the netwrap systems are the least complicated out there. I am guessing your tractor has around 100 PTO HP? If you are not wanting to run a conditioner take look @ Kuhn's trailed disc mowers. I spend the predominant amount of my tractor time cutting hay. Wider is better here and you can get 13' wide trailed mowers that your tractor will run. You will need a bigger tractor to run that wide with a disc MoCo. Stay away from "sickle" cutters, you will not be able to cut fast enough. You are really going to need a loader tractor. If you are going to do 4' wide bales you can get get away with a MF235 class (42HP) tractor. I would hunt for a JD2040 with a loader & rear remote in your position. You can load trailers with it and run a carted V rake. As for rakes I suggest a carted V (10 or 12 wheel). V rakes cover a lot of ground fast. They are easy to move on the road (I drag mine 10-15 miles behind my truck routinely) and wear like iron.

If you are looking to get rich, play the money you are going to spend on the market or lotto tickets. I roll around 5-600 bales a year and gross around 18K a year in custom baling and hay sales. I do feed around 20 head of my own cattle. My family has deep roots in agriculture as well and it that is the pull for me.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I charge by the operation to avoid the problem of ending up with only a bale or two an acre.

$12.50/acre for mowing
$5/acre for tedding
$5/acre for raking
$9/bale to roll
If I need to move em off the field or load em for somebody else, that's negotiable.

I don't do a lot of custom work, but the ones I do, it's understood that they pull the trigger on when it's mowed. This way if the charge ends up being $25/acre for tedding (tedded 5 times at $5/acre) it's not on me for mowing at the wrong time.

A new baler would be nice, I won't argue that, but I'm not sure right now is the time to be spending anymore than required to get started. With the dairy business shaky as it is, and people getting rid of their pets (horses and hobby beef cows) I'm not so sure on what the long term hay markets will do, it would be one thing if milk was where it should be and people were all of a sudden getting hired in or putting over time in, but it's not.

It takes some shopping around but some very nice used balers can be had for under 20K that are only a few years old and have a few thousand bales on em. I traded up this spring, bought a BR740A Silage Special with 3500 bales on it for less than 20K. Granted I think somebody caught a round bale with the one corner of it as the sheetmetal has a wave in it, but for the 3-5 thousand less than other balers that were the same year with the same bales, I can spend a little time on the sheetmetal with a rubber hammer and a oak block this winter. The 10K difference can be set aside as a rainy day fund or for any unforeseen major repairs.


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## baddog201 (Sep 18, 2010)

Well you arent going to get rich doing custom work by the time you figure in your time and road travel and everything its not really profitable. I do some custom work but only when my equipment is setting if you can pay for your equipment with your ground dont buy it because that custom work will not always be there. by the way i charge $8.00 per bale for hay to bale 4x5s, $10.00 for straw have to put more net wraps on. $15.00 an acre to mow. $6.00 an acre to rake. $6.00 an acre to ted. I would recommend buying john deere round baler either 7 or 8 series they are the best on the market right now. I run between 5 and 8 thousand bales a year threw mine mostly my own hay and i completely trashed a new holland biggest piece of junk ever.


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