# # of Bales a Cutting



## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

So I was talking to my grandfather about how many bales you can yield per a cutting. He told me that the average is 12 bales a cutting per an acre. Then, he said that you can get 7 cuttings a year. Is this correct?


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

How big are the bales. This makes a big difference.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

As well as location, climate, crop, fertility, etc.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

It'll be small alfalfa or grass bales. The location is in Northern California and I'm not sure what the fertility rate is. Do you think 12 small bales per an acre is about right?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

HERE 12 small bales per acre would not be worth cutting.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

When you say small bales.... do they have 2 strings or 3? Can one guy lift them? I've seen some 'small' bales that had 3 strings and weighed 120+ lbs....

Rodney


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

They would be three string bales. Well he said 12 bales an acre per a cutting and he said you could do seven cuttings a year.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Like deadmoose said 12 bales HERE would not be worth the trouble, BUT a 3 string bale might weigh over 100lbs, and in relation to our bales, that might be closer to 30 bales/acre....... I think that would be worth it. How long is the growing season? Can you make hay already in February, or do you have to wait till March? It sorta sounds to me like it's fairly accurate, but maybe you out to ask somebody local to you.

Rodney


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I think 12 bales even at 120 lbs would be very very low for HERE if one was able to irrigate and fertilize. I get 7-8 800lb square bales per acre on 1st cutting grass hay. Alfalfa isn't far behind that.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Don't think of it as "bales per acre per cutting". Instead, think in terms of "tons per acre per cutting". My total tons/acre of alfalfa runs about 4.5 tons on 3-4 cuttings. This breaks down into 1st--2.5 tons, 2nd--1 ton, 3rd (and 4th)--1/2 ton.

Ralph


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm not quite sure about the growing season but don't you just cut the hay, grow more, cut, etc? I'm pretty sure you can make hay in Febuary, at least my neighbor does. So how many do you think? I was planning on doing hay on 40 acres. If it's 12 bales a cutting, that's 480 bales a cutting. So that'd be 3,360 bales a year. Over hear the average cost of a ton of grass hay is around $400. To sum it up, that would be $53,760 a year.

Is that about right?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> I'm not quite sure about the growing season but don't you just cut the hay, grow more, cut, etc? I'm pretty sure you can make hay in Febuary, at least my neighbor does. So how many do you think? I was planning on doing hay on 40 acres. If it's 12 bales a cutting, that's 480 bales a cutting. So that'd be 3,360 bales a year. Over hear the average cost of a ton of grass hay is around $400. To sum it up, that would be $53,760 a year.
> 
> Is that about right?


We can't really tell you since we don't know your ground, moisture or irrigation. But from what you see if you are raising alfalfa with a reasonable amount of moisture you would be only getting around 4 tons an acre with your 12 bales a cutting for 7 cuttings. That is very low for alfalfa production especially if you can do 7 cuttings. I would think you should be around at least 8-10 tons an acre or more if you can start in February. Which if those bales are 100 lb bales would get you 180 bales per acre a year. Again I'm not sure since I can't even imagine doing 7 cuttings of anything in a year and I don't know how tonnage drops off per cutting over 7 cuttings. If it's anything like the 4 cuttings I do it does drop off. So going by this for your 40 acres if it has irrigation you would get about a total of 7200 bales per year or 360 tons.

However if you don't have good rainfall or irrigation and just are doing dry land hay then I sure can see 12 bales an acre.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Teslan, your saying 180 bales a cutting-- how many cuttings a year would that be? Whats the average cuttings of hay in a year? Thanks!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> Teslan, your saying 180 bales a cutting-- how many cuttings a year would that be? Whats the average cuttings of hay in a year? Thanks!


Yearly total....


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Teslan, your saying 180 bales a cutting-- how many cuttings a year would that be? Whats the average cuttings of hay in a year? Thanks!


Talk to some local farmers.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Ok Buckaroo, let me help you out. Your yeild (Y) divided by your bale weight (W) will give you the number of bales/acre (B]. So Y/W=B. We need two of the variables to establish the third.

For me, a very mediocre alfalfa yield would be 3250lbs/acre. My target bale weight for 2-tie is about 75 lbs. 3250/75 = 43, so I should get about 43 bales/acre.

For you, lets assume you have a yield (what I would consider pretty poor for alfalfa) of about 2500lbs/acre. And with a 3-tie bale, lets assume your making 130lb bales. 2500/130 = 19, so 19 bales/acre. I hope you are averaging that much or something is probably not right


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Ok. Packman, how many cuttings are you talking about in here?


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> HERE 12 small bales per acre would not be worth cutting.


Yep^^^^^


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

I'm only talking about one cutting, but the math would be the same for a whole year.

If you are only getting 12 130lb 3-tie bales/acre in a cutting thats only 1560lbs/acre (or .78 tons/acre). For me, .78 tons/acre wouldn't be worth my time or the diesel.

How often are you guys cutting?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Depending on what you grow, how good your horticultural practices are, the availability of water, etc, you ought to get 3-10 tons per acre per year. This is six to twenty thousand pounds per year. Assuming 130 pounds per bail, you ought to get 46 to 154 one hundred and thirty pound bales for an entire year or growing season. My best guess...


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

For Northern CA write

Steve Orloff [email protected] He is in N CA and knows his stuff.

A good CA Blog is http://ucanr.edu/blogs/Alfalfa/


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm actually just getting into the hay business. I'm just trying to calculate everything to see if its worth it.

It sounds to me like I was way off! It just didn't sound right to me about 12 bales a cutting.


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

I don't know what county you are in but google your county crop report and you will get a average yield per acre.Looking at several counties 5 to 7 ton per acre of alfalfa,nothing on how many cuttings,grain hay is 1.5 to 4 ton per acre,only one cutting per year.If you are were there is any amount of hay grown you should several custom hay makers to get competitive bid on cutting baling and stacking.Unless you love repairing machinery or you just won the lottery is 40 acres will not pay for good equipment so it is very used equipment that needs much love unless you have bucks to burn.If you want to plant grain hay it needs doing very soon hopefully before the end of month. Alfalfa can be spring planted but not much time to get that organized ether.Good luck.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

I checked and it said the annual yields range from 5-9 tons of hay per acre. How many bales are in a ton though?

I'm going to actually buy all of my own equipment and do hay on my own. I got a good job so it should help me get enough money for equipment.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> I checked and it said the annual yields range from 5-9 tons of hay per acre. How many bales are in a ton though?
> 
> I'm going to actually buy all of my own equipment and do hay on my own. I got a good job so it should help me get enough money for equipment.


How heavy are your bales? Divide weight of bale by 2000.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> I'm actually just getting into the hay business. I'm just trying to calculate everything to see if its worth it.
> 
> It sounds to me like I was way off! It just didn't sound right to me about 12 bales a cutting.


Let me give you some advice, kiddo: Get as far away from the hay business as possible. Go to medical school or law school or something and work from 10-4 for 40 weeks a year and bill $250/hour. Don't be out with us idots at 2am waiting for dew to come down so you can jump on the tractor and not make any money


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## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

Oh Packman where were you when I was a kid,50 years ago?You could of saved me from my addiction to rusty old iron.

I just had 28 ton of late season southern San Joaquin valley alfalfa delivered averaged 116.5 lbs a bale, or 17.16 bales per ton.So 5/ton per acre is 85.8 bales per acre.Have fun putting that .8 bale in the stack with a bale wagon.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I have read every response on this one and I might still be confused. 
Northern California is a really large area. You may be calling Modesto or Sacremento Northern California. it makes a huge difference if you are in that area or up in Redding and Cottonwood. Of course you could be up near Jefferson or over toward Susanville as well. Since we are guessing, let's assume that you are in the Red Bluff area. Most of the local guys put up 3 string bales in the 125 to 140 pound range. 3 string small squares are the most common there. It seems to me that they get 5 to 6 cuttings per year, if I remember right.
The tonnage per acre is largely dependent on irrigation and amendments. I get the distinct impression that you have dollar signs in your eyes and not a clue as to what you are doing when it comes to making hay. I arrived at that conclusion by your brief synapses simply of cut, bale and sell.
Here are my thoughts. If someone has given you the equipment, go ahead and try to make some money. I would get as much input from local farmers as possible in that case. If you dont have the equipment, it will be a long and very expensive road ahead for you.I second the vote for you to go to college and get as far as possible away from ag ground. If you only hqve 40 acres on which to make hay, it will not give you a return if you are paying for equipment.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Teslan said:


> How heavy are your bales? Divide weight of bale by 2000.


I believe that you would divide 2000 by the weight of the bale for number of bales per ton.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Just to make it easier for you all, I live in Sacramento. Lostin, thanks for the reply. I understand what your saying. If I made, let's say, $100,000. Nearly $30,000 would be towards seed, irrigation, the land payment,etc. I'm actually going to be going to college to get my degree in Theology or Entrepreneurship. I just thought it would be nice to do hay to have a source of income. You know what I mean? Also, my grandfather does hay and he would offer to help me get going.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I think that you are steeply underestimating your yearly costs. There are many threads that you can search regarding haying costs.
The 1st thing that comes to mind is the capital expenditure for equipment. With a reasonable schedule to keep you will find yourself in need of decent equipment. That will include tractor, baler, swather, rake and some means to haul all of the hay. Decent, not even close to new, will cost you at least $40k. I have good older equipment, the newest peice is mid-nineties vintage, and I have over $90k invested. This figure does not include dual purpose equipment that I use for loading customers trailers etc...
I dont want to get to far off topic, but in my mind the questions that you asked and the order in which you asked them suggests that you would have a very steep and costly learning curve.
My suggestion is to visit with your grandfather for an afternoon and get a feel for what you are wanting to do. You seem to be of the opinion that there is money growing in the feilds for you to simply grasp and claim. While putting up hay can be alot of fun, and a decent return on investment can be had, you will not make the kind of money that you are thinking. I know of alot of folks that put up alot of hay, and none of them have been able to get rich. 
In summary, I am not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but rather give you a reality check before you bite off what may well be more than you are inclined to chew.
I hope this all makes sense, and keep us posted.


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

upper sacramento valley here, first cutting , 47 bales 3twine per acre, second to 5th 20 to 28. normal year 5 cuttings one more the last couple dry ones. trying to do hay in the winter has quality in the dumper. fertilize after 1st, 3rd and 5th.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Lostin, ok I understand. I plan on going to my grandfather's house for two weeks and he is going to show me how to bale,rake, etc. I should be able to learn a lot more. I"ll definitely keep you all posted about it.

1oldphart, there is really only 20-28 bales in the 2-5 cutting? I thought it would be more than that on the second cutting and then decrease in amount of bales?


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

Really depends on when you cut and how hot it gets, remember your cutting 2nd 28-30 days from first, not much grow time. later cuttings are also cleaner (less weeds)


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

i like the willingness to blindly jump in with both feet. kinda refreshing.

you'll do fine, wont make a ton of money kinda like the rest of us but its nice work. good luck


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

I don't know how your granpa's help factors, but I have 60 acres irrigated and differing acerages dry farmed. have a real job and farming is an enjoyable hobby. started with a ford 3point syckle mower behind a ford 621, a 7 wheel darf rake and an older nh 3wire baler. paid a neighbor to harrow bed. I doubt I had $6,000.00 in equipment. a 9'9" disk and the seed and fertilizer guys broadcaster got my first crops in. Your not going to get rich, but you ARE going to get an education. .Be religious with your maint. and be straight with your customers


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

1oldphart, After reading your message, I'm considering getting my degree and do hay as a hobby. That sounds logical! Oh, so you hired some other farmers to help. How is your hay fields doing? Do they make a good profit? Thanks!


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## OneManShow (Mar 17, 2009)

Good luck on your hay biz. Do not over estimate production, do not under estimate your costs. Believe me it is easy to do. Think about this if you have forty acres and can get 5 ton per acre total you could end up with 200 ton of hay. If you can sell it all for 200/ton you are only looking at 40k gross, minus fertilizer, irrigation, and harvest costs. You will not be cutting a fat hog, sittin in high cotton, etc. Plus you will have to buy equipment as well. Pencil everything out then see if it will work before you spend the cash.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Ok, I want to get all of your guys opinion on this. I'm not sure if I did this right, but you guys can see.
•$65,000 with equipment and yearly expenses(seed,fertilizer,etc..)
•3 tons per acre--get 30bales/ton=90bales an acre
• 90 times 40acres=3,600 bales/cutting
•4 cuttings/year=14,400bales/year
• Say I sell at $15 a bale(people in CA like $ per a bale...)
• 14,400 times $15= $216,000
•$216,000-$65,000=$151,000

Overall Profit= $151,000

I'm not sure if I did this right-- Would this be right?


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

your looking @ 3 tns per acre for the FIRST cutting not the rest. your bales will weigh 100 to 120 lbs so you've got your production about 40% high. its closer to 6000 bales per year at best. 15.00per bale is the price 1 bale at a time at tractor supply or the feed store. you will be selling wholesale, craigs list or whatever and will be lucky to get $10.00 if these inflated prices stay up. so its more like 6000 bales @ 10.00 $60,000.00, if your expenses are correct you only lose $5000.00. if the price slides, PG&E goes up or cal air resources comes for your equipment it could get ugly.


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## OneManShow (Mar 17, 2009)

The glass might be half full, but not that full. You are figuring on a total yield of close to 870 tons on 40 acres which would be close to 22 tons per acre, selling at 250/ ton. I know California hay production is high, but I don't think it is that high. If a farmer could net $3775/ acre growing hay, there wouldn't be much else planted, certainly no more grass seed, or wheat or oats, and I would be driving a newer pick up.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

OneManShow said:


> The glass might be half full, but not that full. You are figuring on a total yield of close to 870 tons on 40 acres which would be close to 22 tons per acre, selling at 250/ ton. I know California hay production is high, but I don't think it is that high. If a farmer could net $3775/ acre growing hay, there wouldn't be much else planted, certainly no more grass seed, or wheat or oats, and I would be driving a newer pick up.


Well said, and very much along the lines that I was thinking.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> Ok, I want to get all of your guys opinion on this. I'm not sure if I did this right, but you guys can see.
> •$65,000 with equipment and yearly expenses(seed,fertilizer,etc..)
> •3 tons per acre--get 30bales/ton=90bales an acre
> • 90 times 40acres=3,600 bales/cutting
> ...


If you are doing 3 string you are getting well below 30 bales per ton. It's roughly 30 65lb bales per ton. If you are baling 120 lb bales that's about 16-17 bales a ton. Which amounts to about the 48 bales 1oldphart said it would be if you are getting 3 tons an acre. You have not said once if this 40 acres has irrigation or not. That is very important to figuring out yields. If it has irrigation and if the water delivery is sorta like here in Colorado you will have to pay something for that water. Or if it's a well you will have to pay something for that well to operate. I pay $3600 a year to just have an irrigation well. Never mind if I use it or not.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Optimism is good. Too much optimism can be foolish. Sharpen pencil again. Who owns land? Rent? Irrigation cost? Annual rainfall? Market for poor quality hay? Storage? Marketing?


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm 30 miles from him, no appreciable rain from 1 may till1 Oct, average temp 90 degrees


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

OneManShow, I see where your getting to. Makes more sense. 
Teslan, I'm pretty sure there is a well on this piece if property because there is a house. The landlord rents the house out to some people. He has to get the property baled every year because the native hay grows high. So the landlord told me that he already HAS to bale the hay. The landlord is pretty close to my family for the past 30 years. I haven't told him my idea of baking it for him but I'm pretty sure he would be ok with it.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Deadmoose, yeah that all tie in too. What I would really like to know is, how much do you guys think the annual cost of everything together would be? That's what I would really like to know because then I'll see if I'm even making an reasonable profit.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

1oldphart: After just realizing your 30 minutes away, how was your hay this year? Did you make a good profit?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> OneManShow, I see where your getting to. Makes more sense.
> Teslan, I'm pretty sure there is a well on this piece if property because there is a house. The landlord rents the house out to some people. He has to get the property baled every year because the native hay grows high. So the landlord told me that he already HAS to bale the hay. The landlord is pretty close to my family for the past 30 years. I haven't told him my idea of baking it for him but I'm pretty sure he would be ok with it.


A well for a house is entirely different then a well to irrigate 40 acres. So other then that I take it there isn't any irrigation water and it only grows native hay? Or native grass that may or may not be very marketable grass. Good marketable grass hay is orchard and brome and if as 1oldphart says there is no rain from May 1 to October then I wouldn't think you could raise decent orchard and brome grass hay without irrigation. Nor alfalfa either. Unless rain from Feb to May is good. So you might get a couple decent cuttings.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Yeah, see that's the problem. I'll have to check up on it and see if there is any other source of water nearby. Yeah, I know that native grasses aren't very good as in money wise. If I do hay I'll most likely plant something. Also, I would like to invest in one of those water wheel systems. Not the huge ones, but the ones that look like a wagon wheel. How much do you think those go around?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> Yeah, see that's the problem. I'll have to check up on it and see if there is any other source of water nearby. Yeah, I know that native grasses aren't very good as in money wise. If I do hay I'll most likely plant something. Also, I would like to invest in one of those water wheel systems. Not the huge ones, but the ones that look like a wagon wheel. How much do you think those go around?


If there isn't now irrigation water to the property getting water will most likely be very very expensive and maybe impossible. It would be here in Colorado. Unless you had lots of money to buy water rights, go to water court and wait 10 years.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

1oldphart said:


> I'm 30 miles from him, no appreciable rain from 1 may till1 Oct, average temp 90 degrees


So it seems buckaroo's grandpa is right with the low hay yields. He needs to spend more time talking to guys like you that are in the area.


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## 1oldphart (Aug 20, 2014)

Ok, the foxtail and wild oats that you are likely to get is a 1 cutting deal, with a late spring rain mabe 2 tns to the acre. for the moment you can still punch a well anywhere you want. the politicians are trying to stop that. a decent irrigation well will set you back 30,000.00. a wheel line (the wagon wheely thing) another 15g's. lime,seed, P and K tilling and smoothing 40,000.00. you'll work for nothing for the first 3 years.On mine the dry small grain oat-vetch was only 3 tns per acre and that's a 1 shot deal. oats were pinched, heads were light. Alfalfa was good 6.5 tns total per acre. Only the current insane price for hay made it profitable. if corn stays down hay will slide in price too and the dairy dudes will add more to their RATION.

You need to find a small hay guy and shadow him, work for free, whatever, but you need basic knowledge of the processes before you leap off this cliff....paul


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

The problem as I see it is that we are talking about lease ground that isn't leased yet. Why would a sane individual drop $45K on a well and irrigation and another $40K on ground work for lease ground? Unless things have changed alot since I was out there last, I don't see it working out well. 
Of course, if someone has that kind of money to drop into improvements with minimal return I will lease most of my ground out. I couldn't get the contract drawn up fast enough.
In all seriousness, this looks to be a deal that isnt , or shouldn't, be going to happen anyway. I second what 1oldphart said about shadowing an existing farmer, even if it means working for free. You need to base your predictions in reality. The last numbers I saw were not even close to reality. The yeild numbers were so far off it was staggering.
Every time we find out something else it seems as though the deal gets worse and worse. I am nearly speechless. . . . .


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

1oldphart said:


> Ok, the foxtail and wild oats that you are likely to get is a 1 cutting deal, with a late spring rain mabe 2 tns to the acre. for the moment you can still punch a well anywhere you want. the politicians are trying to stop that. a decent irrigation well will set you back 30,000.00. a wheel line (the wagon wheely thing) another 15g's. lime,seed, P and K tilling and smoothing 40,000.00. you'll work for nothing for the first 3 years.On mine the dry small grain oat-vetch was only 3 tns per acre and that's a 1 shot deal. oats were pinched, heads were light. Alfalfa was good 6.5 tns total per acre. Only the current insane price for hay made it profitable. if corn stays down hay will slide in price too and the dairy dudes will add more to their RATION.
> You need to find a small hay guy and shadow him, work for free, whatever, but you need basic knowledge of the processes before you leap off this cliff....paul


That's $1,000 per acre for lime, p & k, tilling and smoothing. I am glad I don't farm in California.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

1oldphart said:


> Ok, the foxtail and wild oats that you are likely to get is a 1 cutting deal, with a late spring rain mabe 2 tns to the acre. for the moment you can still punch a well anywhere you want. the politicians are trying to stop that. a decent irrigation well will set you back 30,000.00. a wheel line (the wagon wheely thing) another 15g's. lime,seed, P and K tilling and smoothing 40,000.00. you'll work for nothing for the first 3 years.On mine the dry small grain oat-vetch was only 3 tns per acre and that's a 1 shot deal. oats were pinched, heads were light. Alfalfa was good 6.5 tns total per acre. Only the current insane price for hay made it profitable. if corn stays down hay will slide in price too and the dairy dudes will add more to their RATION.
> 
> You need to find a small hay guy and shadow him, work for free, whatever, but you need basic knowledge of the processes before you leap off this cliff....paul


I'm amazed CA with all their other restrictions allows an irrigation well to be drilled. I don't think you could in Colorado for the last 20 years or more. And even then we are limited in using ours, and many have been shut off. To use irrigation wells here for the most part a well owner has to have what's called an augmentation plan. Meaning surface rights somewhere to recharge aquifers. That's what costs me $3600 a year. It's overkill on the states part for this regulation as now there are high water tables everywhere because the wells aren't being pumped. Just like most government regulation it goes to far.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

That's one big problem living in CA!

Lostin, I see the point your making. If they were off, then what seems to be about right?


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

6.5 ton per acre for the year X 40 acres = 260 ton. X $200 / ton = $52,000.00 
This is ASSUMING that you have a reasonable year. This is also on irrigated ground, which you do not have, and more than likely cannot get. I would be very inclined to listen to 1oldphart as he is in the area and knows the climate and the market. This is also ASSUMING that you seed it to alfalfa.
It is currently not even worth touching with the needed improvements, in my opinion. 
You also have to subtract expenses and yours there will be different than mine here.Someone said that you would lose money for three years, before we knew about the irrigation issue. I think it would be a continuous net loss for many, many years. 
Let me ask you a question. Don't you think that if a profit was there to be had, that a local farmer would already have it in production?
Have you not noticed that most of the market experienced posters on this thread are suggesting an over abundance of caution? There is a reason why.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Yep reading some of these really make me love milking cows even more


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Wow! I was quite off! Now is this on only one cutting? Or is this the total amount of cuttings in the year? Yeah, I see now what your talking about. No wonder there aren't a lot of people selling hay anymore. So would you advise me to buy land or lease more land? What would seem the thing to do?

Thanks for all of the comments! I appreciate it!


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Wow! I was quite off! Now is this on only one cutting? Or is this the total amount of cuttings in the year? Yeah, I see now what your talking about. No wonder there aren't a lot of people selling hay anymore. So would you advise me to buy land or lease more land? What would seem the thing to do?
> 
> Thanks for all of the comments! I appreciate it!


While I appreciate your wanting to get into farming and hope that you do, I would advise you not to spend one dime on anything until you learn a bit more on tons per acre. From reading your posts, I think your seeing to many dollar signs. Good luck to you. Don't go broke thinking your going to get rich.


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## OneManShow (Mar 17, 2009)

Buckaroo said:


> Wow! I was quite off! Now is this on only one cutting? Or is this the total amount of cuttings in the year? Yeah, I see now what your talking about. No wonder there aren't a lot of people selling hay anymore. So would you advise me to buy land or lease more land? What would seem the thing to do?
> 
> Thanks for all of the comments! I appreciate it!


I would advise you to re-read all the advice folks were kind enough to send your way already, then you should be able to make an informed decision. But then again, sometimes the only way a person can learn anything is to make their own mistakes, which seems to be the way you're leaning.

Good Luck and have a Merry Christmas


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

OneManShow: I reread all of the comments that you all posted. After looking over and calculating everything; I don't think I will do hay on those 40 acres. It's a lot of of money to put in for all and you don't get that good of a profit. However, there has to a reason why you all are still doing hay.... I'm trying to look into other things that would make a good profit. Any ideas? Thanks!

P.S. I appreciate everyone giving their advice on the previous pages. It helped me a lot! Thanks!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> OneManShow: I reread all of the comments that you all posted. After looking over and calculating everything; I don't think I will do hay on those 40 acres. It's a lot of of money to put in for all and you don't get that good of a profit. However, there has to a reason why you all are still doing hay.... I'm trying to look into other things that would make a good profit. Any ideas? Thanks!
> 
> P.S. I appreciate everyone giving their advice on the previous pages. It helped me a lot! Thanks!


We are all somewhat crazy. That's why we do hay. But for the most part all of us either started really small or had family get us started either in a big or small way.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Like Teslan says, we're all a bit crazy. As for me, if I wasn't doin' hay, I'd be spending my money on cheap wine, and cheaper wimmin! I figure this way, while I may lose my shirt, but I'll at least keep my liver,,,


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

The short answer to your question is the stock market. It gives a reasonably consistent return with minimal input.

As to the why we do hay, there is something to be said for spending your days on your own equipment and on your own ground. When you look back at the end of the day it is usually with pride for having overcome obstacles and prevailed in spite of setbacks. Truth be told there is very little profit in hay and the reasons people put up hay are as varied as the equipment they use and climates that they live in. It takes a special kind of stupid to do what we do for slim margins. On the slimmest of margins you can make good money if you put up enough hay. By that I mean one hell of a lot of hay.


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## Buckaroo (Aug 20, 2014)

Oh. Now when your talking a lot of acres, your meaning like 100+ right? Is there any other type of crop that makes a good profit? I know corn does but the Harvester it self costs $100k or more.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

There are a lot of different reasons why people do hay. There are people that farm and make hay as a retirement. After years of working, they can now do what they want to do. Others work another job and make hay for a stress relief. Then there are livestock owners who make hay to feed the animals. Livestock may or may not be their main income. There are also custom balers, who make hay for others, mainly livestock owners, who don't want to invest time or money to make their own hay. There are also diversified farms that grow many crops and or livestock and hay is just a piece of there business puzzle. Finally, there is the commercial hay grower who's main income comes from selling hay, though they probably have other enterprises to add to the income stream.

You have to realize that there aren't any commodities( hay, corn, soybeans, wheat, ect.) that you can make a living off of 40 acres. Maybe in the specialty crop market such as grapes or CSA type vegetable operations, but not in hay.

Agriculture and making hay in general can be a rewarding and if you are patient and are willing to work at it ( and a bit lucky), Lord willing you can make a good income at it. You have to realize that you don't start out on top, but you have to earn your way there. It has taken 20 years to build my farm and hay operation. Finally, at age 40, I am a full time farmer. Many said it can't be done, but it can be. It does take a lot of sacrifice and perseverance. So, if you are looking to get rich fast, or start at the top, then I wouldn't consider ag.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I think from time to time what other crops I could raise that would be as enjoyable and frustrating to me at the same time as hay. People ask why I don't raise vegetables. Or try my hand with green houses and growing organic veggies. I read stories about how much these 7 acre organic farms can gross a year and I think that is pretty good. I just don't really like gardening. And that's what I feel a larger organic vegetable farm is. Gardening. Hay I don't think is like gardening at all. There's just something about seeing nice bales of great quality hay in the building. Something about driving a tractor or other equipment around pretty much 6 months of the year here.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Buckaroo said:


> Wow! I was quite off! Now is this on only one cutting? Or is this the total amount of cuttings in the year? Yeah, I see now what your talking about. No wonder there aren't a lot of people selling hay anymore. So would you advise me to buy land or lease more land? What would seem the thing to do?
> 
> Thanks for all of the comments! I appreciate it!


Buckaroo, I've stayed out of this thread because I really know nothing about your climate or your crop. But your question, "what would seem the thing to do", that one I can answer......sprint to college, don't walk and don't look back for quite a while. Perhaps you could apprentice with grandpa if he has any years left under his belt, if not just take him to lunch every now and again and listen to some of his stories and it'll probably reinforce why I say....RUN

Good luck with whatever you decide to do in life, I am only making hay because like others on this site, I'm a gluten for punishment......its definitely not a cash cow.

After retreading some of your posts, especially #39, I'm not sure you don't have career as a politician. Only thing I would tell you to work on is that last sentence of that post.....you have to pass the bill before you can read what's in the bill and you never ask your constituents what they think of the bill beforehand......just a thought......Btw, y'all could stand a few more political types out in California, quite sure y'all need more regs out there....lol. Good luck buckaroo


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Buckaroo, I've stayed out of this thread because I really know nothing about your climate or your crop. But your question, "what would seem the thing to do", that one I can answer......sprint to college, don't walk and don't look back for quite a while. Perhaps you could apprentice with grandpa if he has any years left under his belt, if not just take him to lunch every now and again and listen to some of his stories and it'll probably reinforce why I say....RUN
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide to do in life, I am only making hay because like others on this site, I'm a gluten for punishment......its definitely not a cash cow.
> 
> After retreading some of your posts, especially #39, I'm not sure you don't have career as a politician. Only thing I would tell you to work on is that last sentence of that post.....you have to pass the bill before you can read what's in the bill and you never ask your constituents what they think of the bill beforehand......just a thought......Btw, y'all could stand a few more political types out in California, quite sure y'all need more regs out there....lol. Good luck buckaroo


I have tried, several different ways, to say with tact what most of us are thinking. I have failed, and therefore given up on this thread and topic. I agree whole heartedly that Buckaroo should stay as far away from equipment and agriculture as he can.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I have also sat back and followed this post from a distance. Buckaroo, 1Oldphart has given you invaluable advice as he is the closest to you geographically. I second the opinion that you aren't ready to take on an a venture at this time. Here are a few reasons why: You are working the problem from the wrong end. Profits, such as they may be, are not a guaranteed result of a math problem. You have neglected to do enough research on ag in your area or I suspect in general. I cite your lack of knowledge with irrigation. Your lack of experience in agriculture is probably the biggest roadblock to starting out right away. There may be a couple of exceptions to the rule on this forum but their areas had much, much lower inputs and startup costs.

I'm not telling you that you will never make it. I am not telling you that this dream of yours is unattainable. I am simply suggesting that you continue researching and learning from as many sources as possible. Gain as much hands on experience as possible. You have to have some sweat equity in this business and you can't gain that from any U of Wherever study or research paper.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Whatever you do go into it with your eyes wide open.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

When I moved away from the big city I was set on raising my own beef. That's where I started.

Well maybe a few years earlier on food plots for deer. Anyway, one day I will make a profit at it. Definitely not this year. Next year doesn't look good either. Maybe many years down the road.

In the meantime I enjoy it and my "big boy toys" collection seems to keep growing. Hopefully land base will as well.

Beats golfing-although I had loads of fun going with nephews and bro in law this summer. Shoot for twice next year.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Why do we farm, why are we here on this forum sharing ideas and experiences?

The answer is as varied as the individuals here. We all have our own story.

I farm because it is a part of who I am. It is a part of my heritage. It is how I was raised. It is what I know.

My grandfather was a farmer as was his father and his father before him. My father was an engineer and a successful individual who could not get the farming out of his blood. His success in the business world and tireless work ethic allowed him to farm. I became a teacher and farmer. If a person owns any amount of land, that land must be tended or managed. If not, nature will reclaim it. So we farm. To some it is to offset the cost of tending their land. To others it is what puts bread on the table.

I raise hay to feed my cattle. Raising my own hay, being as independent of others as I can be, has proven to be the best way for me to remain in agriculture.

In the past we have raised quality hay as a business. Labor and costs forced us to adapt. We went back into cattle and tried to sell some hay to generate cash flow. Selling quality round bales here is a futile venture. Increasing the herd size became the next option and for now it has proven to be a good decision.

There are people who see what we do and have accomplished, and remark about how lucky we are.

While I agree that I am living a sort of dream right now, it has taken a life time of long hours (after hours) and sweat to make it happen. Every single member on this forum has been out working when others were at home enjoying an easier life. The crops, weather and market dictate your life's schedule.

There are no short cuts in farming anything. Mother Nature will not wait until you have had 8 hours sleep.

Crops, cattle and hay look easy from the road.

There are trends and nothing is a given or guaranteed. No matter what is thrown at you, you have to find a way to make it work. You have to create solutions. You make your own luck. Your success depends on it.

I will never deter anyone from going into farming. Success depends on planning, hard work and never making excuses. If a person grabs a Clint Eastwood type attitude and digs in, they will eventually find success. They may not make much money but none of us determine our success or self worth from that alone.

A good education is something no one can ever take away. I would suggest getting the college diploma then give hay farming a try before getting married.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Well said Tim....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

A friend of mine is a film maker and he was doing a piece for our local town of Greeley saying how agriculture supports the city a lot. He was telling me he met a farmer that was about 55 years old. I have never met the guy and hadn't heard of him. But I guess he started out 20 years ago with 5 acres of hay. He was city guy. He kept renting the smaller fields that big farmers didn't want. I"m curious about that because 5-10 acre fields here are hard to farm because of all the time you have to spend flood irrigating. But anyways. Now he farms 900 acres of hay and has quite a few employees and equipment. For all I know he's up to his eyeballs in debt. But what I'm saying is it can be done. You just have to start really small sometimes, but you have to really know what you are doing from the start and take advantages when you find them. This guy it sounds like found a little niche that others were ignoring. Now I'm sure he has a couple of nice 160 acre fields with automatic pivot irrigation.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> Why do we farm, why are we here on this forum sharing ideas and experiences?
> The answer is as varied as the individuals here. We all have our own story.
> I farm because it is a part of who I am. It is a part of my heritage. It is how I was raised. It is what I know.
> My grandfather was a farmer as was his father and his father before him. My father was an engineer and a successful individual who could not get the farming out of his blood. His success in the business world and tireless work ethic allowed him to farm. I became a teacher and farmer. If a person owns any amount of land, that land must be tended or managed. If not, nature will reclaim it. So we farm. To some it is to offset the cost of tending their land. To others it is what puts bread on the table.
> ...





somedevildawg said:


> Well said Tim....


What they said.


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Having grown up on a  farm, it is what I have always wanted to do. Lost dad and it was a take or leave it deal. At 20 circumstances, immaturity, and lack of knowledge, five years later said the hell with it auctioned it off got out debt free. Went to work in a factory and 4 months later with money burning a hole in my pocket, bought new equipment and went into the custom haying business. 8 years later I "retired". and again farming full time and broke. You have to really enjoy what your doing. Factory life is easy and a steady paycheck good but for those of us farming there is nothing better.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Well, the old joke - "How do you make a small fortune in farming?"

"start with a large fortune"

Rodney


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Rodney R said:


> Well, the old joke - "How do you make a small fortune in farming?"
> 
> "start with a large fortune"
> 
> Rodney


Farming-worlds most expensive hobby.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

I was born into it. You either love it or you don't, it has to be in your blood. Plain and simple

I find it very gratifying making a living with my own two hands, mother nature, off the land. The cycle of turning crops into income and equity in the form of cows/calves, fertilizer (manure), milk and beef. Dairy cows take alot of the risk of crop farming out while having a steady market.

Anything can be done depending on how well of a manager you are. A big part of it will be finding a way to make it work which can be very rewarding

And of course a farmer's gotta do what a farmer does, FARM


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I am going to engage in a new to me farming aspect. Pecans....I have ordered some grafted pecan trees that will hopefully be successful in my area. No one has done this here....but I think it will work. Pecan trees, btw, are native to Tennessee. I actually believe that they will be very successful here. I have been studying and reading alot and have ordered a book from UGA that is very detailed. The grafts that I have ordered will not be grafted until this spring and I will not be able to plant them until a year from this March. I have ordered 6 varieties to try in 2 acres....if they do well I will graft my own rootstock and do the expansion from there. I hope to get to 30 acres in the next 8 years. I think this may be something that one of my sons will pick-up onto....the youngest seems very interested. My soil seems very favorable to growing, which of the many criteria required seems most important.....and because of the soil structure and water holding abilities, I am hopeful that most years will not require irrigation. If required I do have ready access to water from the river I am located on. Pecans are kind of like alfalfa in that everything loves to eat them, many pests, and several diseases. But anything worthwhile in agriculture, usually has some degree of difficulty to it.....if not, all the lazy tails would be doing it. I anxiously look forward to this long term, and new to me aspect of agriculture.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mike- interesting project. How intensive is pruning after establishment-are these semi-dwarf varieties or full growth trees? Best pecans I ever had were tree falls I ate till I was sick driving from Atlanta to savannah one year. but it was a good sick and I still remember the pecan flavor 25 years later. guessin you will be installing some of that 6 foot fencing with the electric lines on top that the winery boys use around here. Probably don't want the biopruners to work on your trees at their own clip. good luck with your project, rick


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks Rick. Basically, very minimal to no pruning on regular full size trees.

Regards, Mike


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Very cool Mike. Just north of us pecan harvesting is a fairly profitable business. I can't recall the numbers, but it's amazing the fruit that a well taken care of tree can produce. They do take a good bit of care as I'm sure your aware of, but like you say, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.

Best of luck!

Steve


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Vol said:


> Thanks Rick. Basically, very minimal to no pruning on regular full size trees.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Any trimming done would make a great byproduct. Pecan is good for smoking right? My fruit tree trimmings make tasty venison treats as well as ribs chicken and brisket.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Pecan wood is very good for smoking your favorite foods, the preferred choice in my neck is peach tree wood. Pecan trees naturally prune themselves every year, limbs get loaded with nuts and the rains come and the wind blows, mother natures way of pruning the trees. Perhaps a better choice for large chunks of pecan wood is turning on a lathe.....makes beautiful bowls and such. Very hard to mill large pieces into usable furniture as the limbs are rarely straight for any distance.


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