# No till drill overcoming fear of the unknown



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Can someone explain the difficulty of renting and using a no till drill in simple to understand terms?
I have never done this. I don't know what to expect. Is it difficult? How many acres can a young Padawan expect to do in a 12hr day? 
Please explain how it works.
I have the newbie jitters and need someone to walk me though the steps 
I have to get this done, but uncertainty and of course old man time are always the reason I put it off.


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## wentworth6 (Jun 26, 2015)

Hi,

We use on all the time. Put alfalfa in, grasses. As long as you have rear hydraulics on your tractor. Our soil conservation guys really know their equipt. They walk us thru anything we are not sure about.

One thing with us is that there is no insurance for the drill when you tow it. We had a local farmer rent a new deere. Wrecked it and had no insurance. I have the drill added to my farm policy when I rent it.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Do you know what brand drill you will be renting yet and what will you be planting with it? While concept is the same each brand is different enough in settings and operation that you will probably get some better answers if we know the model. I have a BushHog 9690 (made by Lilliston). I can pretty much guarantee it won't be what you are leasing...seems most rental drills are Haybuster or Great Plains. I have never personally used either of those brand, but there are a lot around here and they seem popular. Most of the rental units around here are the Haybuster types, so they must be fairly straightforward to setup and use.

I would think the biggest challenges will be setting the seeding rate and depth. Most drills will have several different sets of gears/sprockets/seed cups that can be interchanged to give different seeding rates, along with a chart guide for the different setting and seed varieties (i.e. setting B2 = 20 lbs of Orchard Grass). On my drill the chart guide is just that...a guide...and I've found the rate it suggests for a particular setting is usually low, meaning that if it says it is set for 100 lbs/acre it is more like 70 lbs/ acre depending on the seed. I have had mine long enough I just keep good records and pretty much have it dialed in now and know what I need to set it at for a particular seed or variety. You may not have this luxury on a rental drill so may need to do some calibration. Drill should have a manual to walk you through this or just ask whoever you are renting it from.

Setting seeding depth is always what I have found the most challenging, but again this is with my drill and I know it is more difficult to set than some other brands. There are other better, newer drills (such as JD drills with the guage wheel setup) that are better at controling depth. If you are just no-tilling grass or legume seed you want to keep it fairly shallow, as in usually no more than 1/2" deep (at least that is the rule of thumb here). Any deeper than that and germination suffers or will be nonexistant.

One big tip I will say is get out of the tractor and check the drill every once in awhile - in other words dont set it on the first ten foot pass after pulling into the field and then not check it again until you get done with the field. Field conditions change a lot. I probably tweak my drill more than I need to, but I hardly ever drill in a field that has the same consistency across the entire field - there are usually some parts a little softer or a littler harder than others. So what I try to do is set it to work for an average in a field that varies a lot - that way the openers aren't in too deep in softer spots or too shallow on harder ground. But the key is to get out and check to see how things look. I've always been told if you can't see at least some of the seed on top of the ground every once in awhile (with grass anyway) you are probably going a little deep. I say that with caution though, because that is all a relative term - you don't want to see ALL of your seed obviously and not for very long stretches - just that in general you ought to be seeing a seed here or there. I think the only time I have had issues with a stand coming up was traced back to seeding too deep.

As far as how much to do in a 12 hour day - if you aren't spending a lot of time changing fields, running up and down the road, etc. and can get the drill set fairly easily and don't have to make a huge amount of adjustments, you ought to be able to drill 3-5 acres/hour with 10 foot drill (assuming that's what you will have) depending on field conditions (number of rocks to go around, odd shape fields, etc.)

Actually driving/using the drill isn't bad. I always make 4-5 rounds around the outside of the field, then start at one side and go directly back and forth until you are done. Depending on what you are planting into seeing the mark of the last pass can be difficult (assuming you aren't using a drill with markers) but this is usually only an issue planting into wheat or corn stubble.

May want to have a little extra seed on hand. Don't know how many times I budgeted out how much I thought I would need, and then on that last pass or two was coming up a little short and trying to make it stretch to finish up...


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Yup, everything from above. I would say my 8 acre field usually runs 2 to 2 1/2 hrs with a 10 ft drill...Seed rate is always an issue. I usually dump enough in for 1 or 2 acres then plant while seeing what the acre meter reads. Get it dialed in prior to filling it up..

See depth has always been an issue for me on the Esh I rent. Its a big problem when planting through a lot of trash. You want to try to but through while not planting too deep.. I know some guys that run all their grass seed through the small seed box because that seed drops back further in the trench and doesn't get as deep.

I also know some people have planted at half rate, then 90 deg to first plant at half rate. That helps the grass fill in faster and less skippers.

Around here its $10-$12/acre rental...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have been offered to have it done for me for $25/acre with a 14' seeder. Of course I have to add cost of seed. I don't know what that'll add in cost figuring typical orchard/Tim mix. 
I think rental is 10-15/acre.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Ditto, Trot and PaM, except maybe not always 90 deg, but some angle to the first past.

Larry


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

See this 7 part video on operating a no till drill


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I own my drill in partnership with one other guy. It can not be rented out or loaned by written agreement we both signed without hesitation. Too many times I rented the coop drill, and it was almost always plugged up, broken or had missing or damaged parts. And as others have reported, so out of adjustment it was rediculous. Oh, and try to get it on the quick, forgetaboutit.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Would have to agree with Hayman, you might want to plan on spending some 'extra' time with a rental, getting it to fit your needs.

I use a good friend of mine no till drill (he will not rent to anyone else). He keeps it very well maintained, installed a grass seeder that he has never used, to help me with planting alfalfa. I pay him very well for the usage, treating it better than my own. But for me it is well worth it, I have gone the rental direction more than once. To me it was a lot more 'costly' than my current scenario.

If you could find a drill this way or Hayman's way you will be a lot happier with your out come IMHO.

Larry


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

The drill I rent often has plugged tubes. The owners brother is a slob, and always plugs them up with wet clay, then returns the drill to his brother...

My last mix was around $3/lb, but that had clover. You could probably find a mix a a little cheaper. Probably figure $60/acre for seed.

The $25/acre doesn't sound too bad if the guy has good equipment, knows what he is doing, and will get it done right....there are a lot of IFs there...


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## Schopfer (May 13, 2016)

what mike said.... $25/acre seems reasonable if he's had the experience. seed gets more expensive when its not put on right and has to be done again?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I thought $25 acre was cheap, too. He's arguably the biggest and most experienced farmer in my area.
Seed is expensive!


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> I thought $25 acre was cheap, too. He's arguably the biggest and most experienced farmer in my area.
> Seed is expensive!


 Have you seen his planter the make and model things like that.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think it's a 14' Great Plains or maybe Deere? Pretty sure 
It's green


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## Three44s (May 21, 2016)

A local Conservation District has a pair of no till drills for rent.

The newest of them is a fully decked out Great Plains. It has ALL the bells and whistles and is a 10 or 12 footer ........ it is the largest drill you can tow in my State without pilots.

They rent it for $15 an acre and I consider that a bargain ..... especially since the district paid about $40 K for it.

All in all, I really like that drill ...... it's simpler to operate than the JD in the video and that's fine by me.

The member that mentioned the insurance angle raises a very important point. Drivers in my area are SO STUPID around farm equipment ...... they act like you are invisible or some sort of illusion they can just blow off the road!

I bet to a driver, they hit you due to their negligence and immediately start waggin their finger at the farmer and play gottcha!

Anyway, be careful roading these outfits because reward visibility is not too good.

We have seeded Sudan grass and Triticale with the one we rent.

I like the notion of no till ...... but there is a learning curve.

I am not real hot on weed killers but competition with seedlings is a real big issue ........ so is planting depth in no till farming. I guess I'll have to cozy up to Roundup?

Best regards and the best of luck with your enterprise!

Three 44s


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I paid $24/acre this spring when I was busy wth other stuff and needed some seeding done. $25 is fair, especially if the operator is familiar enough with their drill to save you a bag of seed by getting it set right the first time. That said, you can rent a drill and figure it out without too much waste, but the learning curve will make your 12 hour day function more like an 8 hour day.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> I paid $24/acre this spring when I was busy wth other stuff and needed some seeding done. $25 is fair, especially if the operator is familiar enough with their drill to save you a bag of seed by getting it set right the first time. That said, you can rent a drill and figure it out without too much waste, but the learning curve will make your 12 hour day function more like an 8 hour day.


Hahaha...you got that right...nothing more frustrating than messing with something that really shouldn't be that hard..


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Don't put a Deere drill (hydraulic down pressure) on an open center hydraulic system tractor without an open center kit on the drill.


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## FAHGreen (Apr 6, 2016)

All of the above are excellent tips.

Personally I will over seed by at least 50%. My thought process is that, 1 ,with no-till they recommend at atleast a 10% increase , 2 expence to go back and re-do weak spots does not usually work, 3 lost income from thin stands can not be made up.

Just my 2 cents.

Fred


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

Lots of good advice above. Have had my best stands with no till, and a few disasters. $25 an acre sounds pretty good to me. Control your weeds first.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Is early-mid September good time for mid-Atlantic area?
That's when he can do for me.
Downside is I have 2 fields I'd really like to do, but entrances to small for 14' seeder.

Thinking about renting smaller unit to do those fields
Now to find seed types. Know I want orchard Tim, but what brand and what cost? 
Money's tigjt


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I would want to be finished in August here but I'm around 2500' elevation, your window is later. I would want existing crop dead and material removed for best results.

I only sow the very earliest or very latest maturing varieties. I would put alfalfa with orchard in the fields I could get to first and brome/ late timothy in later fields. Brome leaves stay green late and yields good making nice feed when made right and once established will spread some. Not sure if it will tolerate your heat but if timothy works there other should too. I would also run spring oats in grain box w brome to get it to run even. Maybe about 3/4 bushel per acre. Give you a little weed suppression and be dead w first frost. Here the oats stems would hold snow over winter providing some cover.

Most every seed company should have choices but may not have every variety this late and no discounts.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I think I'd prefer late varieties. My goal is to make 1st cutting plentiful and mostly mushroom hay. 
Would like to then make some nicer 2nd cutting and put 100-200 bales in barn and sell it over the winter.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

A guy doesn't want o have everything ready at one time, cause unless you're superman you can't get everything done at once. I use 2-3 varieties of timothy (to spread out the maturity), and a 'hullless' orchardgrass from seedway. The hulless, or hulled o-grass will go through the small box MUCH better than normal o-grass. Last year I planted from very late august (alfalfa) through late September, and it's all fine. The biggest thing is the seeding depth 1/4 to 1/2 inch for almost all of those seeds. Deeper than 1/2 and you'll never see a plant. Shallower than 1//4 and if it doesn't get and stay wet right after you plant the stand will look crappy.

Rodney


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