# Vermeer discbine, quick clips or bolts for the blades



## memory (May 29, 2013)

I wanted to get your opinion on which you like better and why, quick clips or bolts that hold the blades on.

We have a Vermeer MC840 with the quick clips and we thought that was great when we first got it but now I don't like them so much. I am usually the one changing the blades and it has become a chore. The clips get stuck on there and it takes more than just the combo tool that came with the machine to get them off. For me, I have to use the combo tool along with another hammer, a small screwdriver and a bigger screwdriver. I just changed the blades today and I broke the tool. The pods in the middle are not to bad with the extra tools but the pods on the end are a real pain.

This is our first discbine so we do not have experience with disbines that use the bolts. After fighting the quick clips, I wonder if we had to do it over again, if it wouldn't be better off going back to the bolt style. Now, we are not going to go buy another machine just because of this but I just wandered what the disadvantages to the bolts are.

For those of you that have had both, which do you prefer? The one problem I can see with the bolts is if there is any bolt sticking past the nut, it could get rusty and become hard to turn especially years down the road. On our Vermeer, the blades have a little play them in them, a little more than I care for but do believe it is normal. With the bolts, is there any play in the blades when they are installed?


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## Hand&Hand Farms (Feb 5, 2011)

Bolts can be a pain too. Worn or rounded off nuts. For every box of blades get some bolts and nuts. Nothing easy in the hay world.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

memory said:


> I wanted to get your opinion on which you like better and why, quick clips or bolts that hold the blades on.
> 
> We have a Vermeer MC840 with the quick clips and we thought that was great when we first got it but now I don't like them so much. I am usually the one changing the blades and it has become a chore. The clips get stuck on there and it takes more than just the combo tool that came with the machine to get them off. For me, I have to use the combo tool along with another hammer, a small screwdriver and a bigger screwdriver. I just changed the blades today and I broke the tool. The pods in the middle are not to bad with the extra tools but the pods on the end are a real pain.
> 
> ...


I didn't know Vermeer had the quick change (maybe that's not such a good name) blade system.....claas has it on some of their mowers and I think it's pretty cool....although I've never used it....it seems fairly straightforward in design, why do the outside ones present a problem but the others do not? Is it the space that you have available to operate in? I change blades twice a year, broke two bolts last time....pita. The blades should not move very much up and down on the shoulder of the bolt (or in your case pin) on my claas someone had replaced some of the bolts with aftermarket ones, the shoulders were a bit thicker (bout a mm) but this made the blade wobble up and down as the mower was slowing down causing the blades to scrape the housing, no problem once centrifugal force got going....I changed em all back to factory bolts at a cost of 13.00 per bolt, YIKES!

Having never had quick change, I believe I would opt for them if I bought a new mower, but maybe not now....are ya liking that tractor a bit better now that you have some seat time?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

memory said:


> I wanted to get your opinion on which you like better and why, quick clips or bolts that hold the blades on.
> 
> We have a Vermeer MC840 with the quick clips and we thought that was great when we first got it but now I don't like them so much. I am usually the one changing the blades and it has become a chore. The clips get stuck on there and it takes more than just the combo tool that came with the machine to get them off. For me, I have to use the combo tool along with another hammer, a small screwdriver and a bigger screwdriver. I just changed the blades today and I broke the tool. The pods in the middle are not to bad with the extra tools but the pods on the end are a real pain.
> 
> ...


No way I would go back to the old style with the bolts and 2 piece holders.First off they cost more for the 2 piece bolt protector.And they take WAY LONGER to change.To replace bolts,protectors and blade per turtle was around $50.With quick change system just replace the blades that new clips come with for around $5 per turtle.I think I've lost 2 pins over the last10,000 acres cutting with QC system were as the bolt system I was buying them by the box.

I did test the Quick Change blades for Vermeer running 1/2 the cutter with each style for a year giving reports after each cutting.

When I use the tool prying the clip out I tap it with a hammer to help it instead of just prying.When reinstalling I like to coat pins with WD-40 also.

Hired man at the time would cuss the old bolt system and realy like the new system also.My cost per acre for blades/holders dropped 90% with quick change system.


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## memory (May 29, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I didn't know Vermeer had the quick change (maybe that's not such a good name) blade system.....claas has it on some of their mowers and I think it's pretty cool....although I've never used it....it seems fairly straightforward in design, why do the outside ones present a problem but the others do not? Is it the space that you have available to operate in? I change blades twice a year, broke two bolts last time....pita. The blades should not move very much up and down on the shoulder of the bolt (or in your case pin) on my claas someone had replaced some of the bolts with aftermarket ones, the shoulders were a bit thicker (bout a mm) but this made the blade wobble up and down as the mower was slowing down causing the blades to scrape the housing, no problem once centrifugal force got going....I changed em all back to factory bolts at a cost of 13.00 per bolt, YIKES!
> 
> Having never had quick change, I believe I would opt for them if I bought a new mower, but maybe not now....are ya liking that tractor a bit better now that you have some seat time?


The outside ones are more of a problem because they are taller than the rest of the pods and you can't hit the combo tool with a hammer like the rest of them.

I have always heard the quick change system is the best thing since sliced bread but I don't see what all the hype is about. Maybe the Vermeer system is not as good as others, I don't know.

I am liking the new tractor alot more than the old one. I am still getting used to things though. The hydraulics are quite a bit more senstive, faster acting. The clutch can be a little touchy sometimes, other times it is fine, which I don't understand. I mean, some days, it is real jerky making it hard to move real slow like hooking up to something and other days, it is just fine. I don't think there is anything wrong, I think it is just the nature of the beast.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't think there is anything wrong, I think it is just the nature of the beast

I think you're right.....I figured you would get used to it, how's the visibility to the front forks, looks like it would be decent, and I bet ur getting used to the skid steer style hook-up as well, fairly easy to engage.

I'll post you some pics when I can of a fork system we made over the winter, allows for two bales in back nd one on the front, that Case will handle three I believe....depending on bale size of course

Glad to hear its workin out for you...


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

Folks, on the quick change blades don't misinterpret the marketing terminology to mean "no maintenance". They are an improvement over bolt-on blades IMO, but, when you change them always check the components for damage or wear. On the sales lot and in the videos they show how fast you can change them out, but a bit more to it than that. Always take time to inspect the components. Clean everything well so you can see if anything needs replacing. On ours we have a "go-no go" guage for the blade studs and to measure disc wear. Not sure if Vermeer has that but I would keep a new pin or two in the tool box to measure against. I would also keep several clips also and if there is any doubt about them I would replace them. If you are in the field put the old parts in your pocket instead of back in the tool box so they get put in the scrap pile.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

A new clip comes with the replacement blade on the Vermeer.You only use them twice as you reuse them when you flip the blade.

Hired man thought he would reuse them and a clip failed and lost the pin also.The pins are super hard and see zero wear after cutting 5000 acres on a set.

Not sure how the end turtle is on the 840,I run the 1030 that has drive on each end.

Using the tool and tapping it with a 3lb BFH with a V end acting as a wedge between the tool and the gcage for the dive knuckles it is preety easy to get them out.

Like krone1 says make sure all the groves and pins are clean putting it back together and things work much easier.


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## memory (May 29, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong, I think it is just the nature of the beast
> 
> I think you're right.....I figured you would get used to it, how's the visibility to the front forks, looks like it would be decent, and I bet ur getting used to the skid steer style hook-up as well, fairly easy to engage.
> 
> ...


The visibility is not bad but not great either. You have to tilt it down quite a bit to be able to see what you are doing. Every once in a while, the fork will want to fall off if you have it titled down to far. We are borrowing a set of pallet forks and those are a problem. When you have it tilted down far enough to see, the locking handle will get caught in the top part of the pallet forks and bend it. You can't see that happening either.

We bale 5x6 bales that weigh between 1500 and 2000lbs.

When we get new blades, they do not come with new clips. I will have to check with him on that. We always keep a few clips, pins, and blades in the toolbox on the machine, you never know when you might need them. Although I believe so far, we have lost one pin because the clip came off.

There is something else I noticed. The pods next to the two end pods, if you turn them the right way, you can make the blades hit each other. This only seems to happen when you turn it by hand but you also have to turn the blades itself for this to happen. I don't know if it was designed like this or what. But all the pods are at 90 degrees from each other. It just seems like a design flaw. I have never noticed them hitting with the machine running, at least I don't hear anything. Occasionally, they will have some pretty decent knicks in them but I just figure that to be from hitting foreign objects.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

The visibility is not bad but not great either. You have to tilt it down quite a bit to be able to see what you are doing. Every once in a while, the fork will want to fall off if you have it titled down to far. We are borrowing a set of pallet forks and those are a problem. When you have it tilted down far enough to see, the locking handle will get caught in the top part of the pallet forks and bend it. You can't see that happening either.

Ya know memory, they ain't none (nice use of the double neg) of these farm tractors that have real good visibility in the front, the Case looked perhaps a bit better than others but I ain't sittin in the seat. Before farming, I operated a lot of construction eq., rubber tire loaders, backhoes, skid steers, etc...and one thing I've noticed, is that all FEL equipped farm tractors struggle to maintain good visibility with forks. With a bucket, a simple level indicator is ok, but with forks or spear, not useless but not what you ultimately need, that's where visibility become important. I see that John Deere is trying to navigate that with their newer series of loaders, not sure if it works or not as I can't afford a new tractor so I'm stuck with poor visibility but like anything else, the more seat time you get.....

Last paragraph has me a little lost, I just can't seem to imagine those blades touching when the pods are turned 90 degrees, are you saying you can turn them say 45 and then rotate the blades on each pod to make them touch?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

memory said:


> When we get new blades, they do not come with new clips. I will have to check with him on that. We always keep a few clips, pins, and blades in the toolbox on the machine, you never know when you might need them. Although I believe so far, we have lost one pin because the clip came off.
> 
> There is something else I noticed. The pods next to the two end pods, if you turn them the right way, you can make the blades hit each other. This only seems to happen when you turn it by hand but you also have to turn the blades itself for this to happen. I don't know if it was designed like this or what. But all the pods are at 90 degrees from each other. It just seems like a design flaw. I have never noticed them hitting with the machine running, at least I don't hear anything. Occasionally, they will have some pretty decent knicks in them but I just figure that to be from hitting foreign objects.


The new blades should have clips included.Thats the way they are SUPPOSED to be sold.They should be included in the price of the blade.I'd ask your parts man he prly has a pile of them laying around and doesn't even realize they should be sent with the new blades??Or they are pawning off a after market blade that doesn't have the clips??

Possibility that the hex shaft has a twist in it if your blades are hitting.Shaft that connects the cutting units.


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Hired man thought he would reuse them and a clip failed and lost the pin also.The pins are super hard and see zero wear after cutting 5000 acres on a set.


Must be nice to not have sand. I have to change mine atleast once a year on my TM800. I have to buy blades by the box.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

LaneFarms said:


> Must be nice to not have sand. I have to change mine atleast once a year on my TM800. I have to buy blades by the box.


Lol....I bet the sand blaster was invented in Florida....it cuts through everything......


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> The new blades should have clips included.Thats the way they are SUPPOSED to be sold.They should be included in the price of the blade.I'd ask your parts man he prly has a pile of them laying around and doesn't even realize they should be sent with the new blades??Or they are pawning off a after market blade that doesn't have the clips??
> 
> Possibility that the hex shaft has a twist in it if your blades are hitting.Shaft that connects the cutting units.


Blades are available from my dealer with or without clips. I agree, if your discs are out of sync you probably have a twisted shaft.


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## memory (May 29, 2013)

Let me try to explain myself a little better about the blades touching. Everything seems to be installed right, all the pods are at 90 degrees from each other. But if you turn either end pod at about 45 degrees, you can make the blades touch each other if you move the blades by hand. This is just on the end pods, the pods in the middle are fine. Now with the machine running, they do not hit each other, at least I can't hear anything hitting. I don't believe there is anything wrong, I think it is just a design flaw. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. If not, I may try to get a pic of what I am talking about.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

memory said:


> Let me try to explain myself a little better about the blades touching. Everything seems to be installed right, all the pods are at 90 degrees from each other. But if you turn either end pod at about 45 degrees, you can make the blades touch each other if you move the blades by hand. This is just on the end pods, the pods in the middle are fine. Now with the machine running, they do not hit each other, at least I can't hear anything hitting. I don't believe there is anything wrong, I think it is just a design flaw. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. If not, I may try to get a pic of what I am talking about.


I would like to see this pictures of what you are explaining, as we have the same issue. Thanks.


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## memory (May 29, 2013)

T & R Hay Farms said:


> I would like to see this pictures of what you are explaining, as we have the same issue. Thanks.


What mower do you have?

Here is a pic of what I am trying to say, again I don't think anything is wrong as I believe it is a design flaw as I never notice the blades hitting when cutting. Just by looking at it, the pods sit 90 degrees from each other, at least by eyeballing it. We did remove the pods and put new grease in them but we put them back on the same way they came off and we did one at a time.

This is the opposite end of the drive end.

http://s170.photobucket.com/user/clarke_017/media/IMG_0589_zps171b6747.jpg.html







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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Probably just a slight twist in the drive shaft from hitting something sometime.They don't appear to touch at all when running so I wouldn't worry about it.

Vermeer is comeing out with a new cutter bar with larger turtles.I presume part of the reason is to solve this issue.

the 2 turtles you picture are both running counter clockwise so there is not a lot of leeway.where they meat they are going in opposite directions.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

I don't have much experience with Vermeer, but it looks right to me. On our mowers the Drums/Discs are clocked at 90 degrees. Just looking at the photo it appears the disc is clocked inward just a bit. Is it possible that it could be a tooth off on the gearset?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Are those both running counter clockwise? The outside one (left) looks like the blade is positioned for clockwise rotation....but it may be an optical illusion as well....


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Co-rotating discs are always more difficult to time than counter-rotating. Many machines will have an uneven number of gear teeth so that when you turn the hub assy.a quarter turn your adjustment will be less than one tooth. This applies to modular cutterbars like NH , NI and Vermeer. That being said , according to the picture yours should be fine because when the blades would be fully extended they don't look like they should be touching.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

somedevildawg said:


> Are those both running counter clockwise? The outside one (left) looks like the blade is positioned for clockwise rotation....but it may be an optical illusion as well....


I think they are.The wear on the turtles shows it.I run a 1030 Vermeer and they also run that way on both ends throwing the hay inward. .So everything has to be timed perfect or they would touch.

Looks like a 830 Vermeer in the pic


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