# 4430 AC charge



## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I am not an air conditioner guy but my local mechinacs cannot seem to get my 4430 air conditioner right. I put a new Sanden style AC compressor on my 4430 along with expansion valve and dryer. I cannot find anything telling me what the correct charge is. Some say 40 0z and others 56. Seems too be a big difference to me. Also it dropped from 27 to 22 vacum in about 17 hours. Should I chase a leak? Thanks in advance.


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Leaks don't get better on there own. I like charging a system based on a known correct amount, but you can charge based on a ambient air temp/ high and low side pressure chart. That is how I have added to a low system that leaks down over years.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Dealer said 3.6 pounds.

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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

On a 4xxx John deere it's usually about 5 cans. I wouldn't worry about that small of a leak my guess is that's only about a can or 2 a year. If you do decide to look for it check the low side line behind the battery and Insulated line going up left rear cab post. Those 2 account for about 90% of leaks i have seen. The exact amount I put in is hard to say I try to have the tractor parked in the shade, running about 1700 rpm, door closed, when low side lines has water beads almost cold enough to freeze it is the best it will do.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I have 4 cans of R134A in my JD 4255 & AC cools fine in Texas heat. My 4255 tech manual states 4#s of R12 so 80 percent of 4#s(64 oz's) of R12= 51.2 oz"s of 134A


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Cleaned all lines, condenser, evaporator with carb cleaner, (per my mechanic) blew them all out with shop air. New o rings at all fittings, pulled a vacuum for 1 1/2 hour, let it sit for another 1 1/2 hour, no vacuum loss. Charged with 5 1/2 cans of Freon. Pressures are 35 low, 250 high, sight glass on my dryer is not clear. Vent temp is about 85 at about 1800 RPM. What did I do wrong? Where should I start? Suction line is cool, and sweating but not frosted over. More Freon?


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

Maybe too much?


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Dealer said 3.6 lbs, that should be about 5 1/2 12 ounce cans.

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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

KS John said:


> Cleaned all lines, condenser, evaporator with carb cleaner, (per my mechanic) blew them all out with shop air. New o rings at all fittings, pulled a vacuum for 1 1/2 hour, let it sit for another 1 1/2 hour, no vacuum loss. Charged with 5 1/2 cans of Freon. Pressures are 35 low, 250 high, sight glass on my dryer is not clear. Vent temp is about 85 at about 1800 RPM. What did I do wrong? Where should I start? Suction line is cool, and sweating but not frosted over. More Freon?


85° discharge temperature in the cab? The A/C is doing nothing if that is correct. I am spit balling but I would suspect a compressor issue (again) or the vacuum was not pulled correctly or lost as some point in the process. Did you blow out the lines and individual components when you had them open to replace the o-rings? It should have been done to check for blockages. About the only way to purge when this is done is with nitrogen. Then pull the vacuum. Depending on the ambient temperature the pressures you listed could be a little low, at least on the high side. 
I have never tried using carb cleaner. I always use coil cleaner like a residential HVAC guy uses. It will dissolve some of the dirt and debris. I do not think carb cleaner would do that on grass, seed, dirt, and such. 
We are talking 134a correct?


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> 85° discharge temperature in the cab? The A/C is doing nothing if that is correct. I am spit balling but I would suspect a compressor issue (again) or the vacuum was not pulled correctly or lost as some point in the process. Did you blow out the lines and individual components when you had them open to replace the o-rings? It should have been done to check for blockages. About the only way to purge when this is done is with nitrogen. Then pull the vacuum. Depending on the ambient temperature the pressures you listed could be a little low, at least on the high side.
> I have never tried using carb cleaner. I always use coil cleaner like a residential HVAC guy uses. It will dissolve some of the dirt and debris. I do not think carb cleaner would do that on grass, seed, dirt, and such.
> We are talking 134a correct?


.
My thoughts exactly (AC doing nothing). Yes I cleaned the lines and components when I replaced O rings, no blockage in anything. Ambient temp was 90 - 95. Yes 134a refrigerant. Forgot to mention I installed new temp control and blower switches, just to remove the possibility of them being bad. Like I said I am not an AC guy, but I have paid 2 other mechanics to "fix" it already, figured I couldn't do any worse.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IMHO 5-1/2 cans is too much refrigerant for a 30-55 series JD tractor with SGB. Was your dealer when he stated 3.6#s referring to R12 or 134A? 134A should be 80% fill to R12. Slightly under filled 134A normally cools better than over-filled 134A AC system.
DEFINITELY don't add more refrigerant!!! 3.6#s=57.6 ozs ÷ 12 oz/can= 4.8 cans not 5.5 cans
Have you manually shut off coolant flow in a heater hose? Did you install new receiver/dryer???


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Yes I installed a new dryer

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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I noticed this morning that the compressor is sweating. Called Abilene Machine. They are sending a new compressor which will be here tomorrow. Hope it works.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Before I went to the trouble of R&R the compressor I would lower the 134A charge to correct amount. New compressor that is over charged with 134A isn't going to cool either


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

But why would the compressor sweat? It is not very hot or humid here.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Why do you not want to lower refrigerant charge to correct amount?


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I did this morning before posting.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

What are your low & high pressure readings now? Can you see a few bubbles in sight glass?


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Low is 28, high is 215. Sight glass in the dryer is milky white. Blows ambient temp from blowers.

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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

KS John said:


> I noticed this morning that the compressor is sweating. Called Abilene Machine. They are sending a new compressor which will be here tomorrow. Hope it works.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Best of luck. For certain check the heater lines. If both are getting hot that is a big part of your problem. Get a cheap and easy in line shutoff to eliminate the possibility.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

KS John said:


> Low is 28, high is 215. Sight glass in the dryer is milky white. Blows ambient temp from blowers.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


So the sight glass is not part of the new dryer? Is it hard to replace the sight glass? You really need to be able to see what is going on with the refrigerant flow. 
What was your ambient temp when you checked the pressures? I do not know your tractor as well as others here do but they seem just a little low to me, especially if you are at the correct Freon weight. 
Check the heater hoses. Something is not adding up here.


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## Ranger518 (Aug 6, 2016)

Your head pressure seams a little higher then it should be and your suction side seams low. Which leads me to think you have some type of restriction in the system. Also you sight glass should not be milky looking it should be clear. I would think your compressor is ok as it seams to be pumping. With a milky sight glass and pressures you have I’m thinking some type of contamination or moisture which could have caused TXV or filter restriction.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

dvcochran said:


> So the sight glass is not part of the new dryer?


Sight glass is incorporated in dryer. I think John meant the fluid inside sight glass is "milky looking" which could be moisture in system. Blowing out AC components with compressed air can introduce moisture to system. I wonder if "new dryer was installed" when compressed air was utilized.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

New compressor installed, vacuum pulled to 28 for 2 hours. Charged with 56 ounces of refrigerant. Gauges and temp from vents attached. Tractor at about 1900 RPM. Ambient temp 80.
















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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

How did you measure 56 ozs? Do you have a refrigerant scales? I still think 56 ozs is too much 134A for a SGB AC system.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I used 4 12 oz cans, weighed 4 empty cans average 3.13 oz, then added 8 oz from another can. Used an electronic food scale. Dealer said 3.6 lbs which equals 57.6 oz. I stopped at 48 oz (4 cans) just to check the temp from the vents. That is as good as I can do with my equipment and frankly it is better than my mechanics did.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sounds as if you measured the best you can with what's available to you. It's odd that the JD 4255 tech manual clearly states 4#s of R12 & 134A would only require 80%of that amount


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

It was mentioned but I will ask, did you check the heater hoses temperature? Even though the heater valve is off it might be bypassing. Make sure the heater hoses are not warmer than ambient.
Make sure the condenser is clean.
With the pressures you show you should get some cooling. 
Make sure the evaporator is not freezing up. It can if it is matted over with years of dust/dirt/chaff. Clean it so you can see through it with a light. 
Cab recirculating filter (sponge looking one) clean? Cab drain lines open? Normal to drip condensate (water). Blow up from bottom with blow gun to open.
Its been a while so just thinking back to different scenarios I’ve encountered in a previous life.
Hope you cool down soon.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

+1 on heater hoses, I use a ball valve at the engine.


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## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

KS John said:


> New compressor installed, vacuum pulled to 28 for 2 hours. Charged with 56 ounces of refrigerant. Gauges and temp from vents attached. Tractor at about 1900 RPM. Ambient temp 80.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is it working now?


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

KS John
What's the cooling status of your 4430 AC? Did you get it to operate correctly?


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

I have not started it for several days. I will open the roof and check the heater core next. Probably put in a new heater temp valve, because the knob is broken off of this one. I do not plan on using the heater but it may as well work, just in case.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

If I didn't plan on utilizing heater If it was my tractor I'd forego the factory valve & install heater hose manual control valve. My JD 4255 has had a manual heater hose shutoff valve since 1994 & has remained closed. Back when I plowed in the Winter I would need the AC on low but no need for heater in N Texas weather.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> If I didn't plan on utilizing heater If it was my tractor I'd forego the factory valve & install heater hose manual control valve. My JD 4255 has had a manual heater hose shutoff valve since 1994 & has remained closed. Back when I plowed in the Winter I would need the AC on low but no need for heater in N Texas weather.


Me either in SE Kansas. Any place easier to put a valve? You just use a steel ball valve?

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Cut hose in an easily assessible area & install the cutoff in photo below. Easy Peasy.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Can also go to your local hardware and get a ball valve and some barbed fitting and put it there.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I always just cut the hose at right rear lower corner post and reroute it to the return line takes like 2 minutes and is completely free. That is unless I am splitting the tractor then I remove the lines and plug them off at block.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

I suppose if you never need heat then looping the hoses or plugging them will work. UP here its currently 46 degrees so its heater weather and by noon it'll be 72 and AC weather.


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

We got a few problems in south Alabama but cold ain't one of them. I have never in my life needed a heater on a tractor I do remember when I was a kid my dad and grandfather had "winter cabs" they would put on there big plow tractors when they still bottom plowed everything in February. But all that was just a windshield and duct to move hot motor air around them.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> Cut hose in an easily assessible area & install the cutoff in photo below. Easy Peasy.


I see terrible reviews on this valve, think I will look for a ball valve at my local hardware store next time I am in. Thanks for the advice though


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Maybe if one regularly opens/closes this valve they will fail but my similar valve hasn't failed since I closed it in 1994. I'll bet similar valve will outlast factory heater valve & it's a lot cheaper & easier to install.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> Maybe if one regularly opens/closes this valve they will fail but my similar valve hasn't failed since I closed it in 1994. I'll bet similar valve will outlast factory heater valve & it's a lot cheaper & easier to install.


I don't doubt that, almost all of the reviews I saw said the valve leaked at the stem. Open or closed did not matter. Maybe a different brand is better. Also from my experience quality has gone down on everything in the last 20-30 years.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

If my valve leaks I'll just remove heater hoses from engine & install threaded plugs.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

My dad talked to a friend who has a 4430, he said if we get 70 degrees from the vents we are doing good. Anyone with a4430 have similar experience?

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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

I worked on a 4230 last spring and I had no trouble getting 50 degree air from the vents at 75 ambient air temp. 

70 vent temp won't even take the edge off on a warming day.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

IMHO there's not much difference between AC systems on JD 30-55 series rowcrop tractors with SGB's with the newer style compressors that have been serviced correctly. I don't have a thermometer in my 4255 but I know the AC will blow air colder than 70°F


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## JOR Farm (Aug 27, 2019)

I put a new denso style compressor on my 4440 and it made a huge difference over the junk A6's I had been getting from the parts stores. My family has had that tractor since new and it's the coldest it has ever been I can even get cold condensation on the windows.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Jim you may be right, spoke to another dealership and was told the 4430 tech manual calls for 4 lbs of R12 refrigerant. 4lbs x.80 equals 3.2 lbs of R134a. Not the 3.6 the other dealership told me. 

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

4#s of R12 is what my 4255 tech manual states therefore 3.2#s of 134A should be correct fill amount


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> 4#s of R12 is what my 4255 tech manual states therefore 3.2#s of 134A should be correct fill amount


I should learn to listen to the wiser people,

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Sometimes it's difficult to see the forest for the trees. I think I'm not wiser but I'll bet I have ""more hands on experience with JD AC systems"" that you have had.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Wiser than me! It comment was meant as a compliment.

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Compliment accepted & thank you.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Sent you a on BTW

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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Pm auto correct

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I replied to your PM. I need to research correct use of the manual refrigerant control valves on compressor because my tractors have the newer style hose connectors. Below in photo is results my DuckDuckGo research. I hope you get you AC to cooling


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Finally got around to installing a new condenser, recharged with 3.2 lbs of 134a. Now about 50 degrees from the vents. 

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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Congratulations on your AC repair. Thanks for updating.


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