# Having Second Thoughts on Planting Bahia



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have a long term 50 acre lease. The field has been baled but neglected for probably 10 years. I put 100 tons of basic slag on it last spring.

The Extension Agent said the best thing to do would be the plow and replant. Sage grass is the predominant grass right now.

I had decided to prepare the seed bed and drill Tifton 9 Bahia. In looking at the planting recommendations it says not to expect a good stand for 12 - 24 months. I did not realize if I planted it this spring that I most likely would not get a cutting this year. I have concerns about putting that much money into something and having to wait so long to get any return. It has kind of taken the wind out of my sails on the project.

When we sprigged Bermuda on our own fields we would get at least one good cutting the first year.

Does anyone know approximate cost to have Bermuda sprigged? Am now thinking about sprigging Bermuda in strips.

Any other advice or thoughts?

Thanks.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

I was thinking the same thing but I was am looking using Jiggs tops and just discing them in. I figure I would do a few strips in each meadow and then i could cut my own tops to spread.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I was gonna mention that as well.....that may be a better alternative, well, a cheaper alternative.....how much Bermuda is in the field now? Not even sure I would disc it, unless slightly. You could run a Hayking through it to aerate and cut tops off of another field and spread them in the field and run a coulter over the ground and apply N.....may get decent results, still a PITA. If the field was say 50% Bermuda, you could spray to kill pests (like Bahia) and then cut with disc and have someone follow with the tedder and then run the coulter, followed by N  I keep throwing out the "N" word  because that's the downside to the Bermuda as you are well aware.....at the end of the day, I think I would rather grow and harvest Bermuda rather that Tift 9/Pensacola or anything Bahai......but it has it's advantages, like you Tim, I had no idea it would take two years to establish a Bahia field, if that's the case I would take the plunge into PP, that's a huge drawback...


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

There is a Quik Bahia variety out there that is suppose to establish quickly but the seed is pretty expensive. I have found that Bahia is tough to cut and does not produce well. It is very drought tolerant though.

https://hancockseed.com/tifquik-bahia-grass-seed-40-lb-bag-certified-390.html


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

rajela said:


> There is a Quik Bahia variety out there that is suppose to establish quickly but the seed is pretty expensive. I have found that Bahia is tough to cut and does not produce well. It is very drought tolerant though.
> 
> https://hancockseed.com/tifquik-bahia-grass-seed-40-lb-bag-certified-390.html


Without a doubt, that's about the only benefit I can see to Baha'i, and the "N" requirement is no where near Bermuda. But, properly maintained Bermuda can certainly withstand a drought, they have very deep roots, but most are under amended with regards to "K" and root structure suffers.....


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I certainly agree with the Bermuda! I did a field a couple of years ago with seeded Bermuda ( http://www.pogueagri.com/Bermudagrass_Comanche.aspx)and got a couple of cuttings off of it the year I planted (also got enough rail). It's been a decent field and this year I'll run over it with some more Giant Bermuda. Originally I was going to put in more T-85 or Jiggs but had problems finding someone to put it in for a decent price, when I wanted it. I've been pretty happy with the results and I keep it happy by throwing lots of N at it. I've got a Bahia field next to it that isn't nearly as productive that I usually just roll up to sell. I typically square bale one cutting of the Bahia for our own horses, but it makes ugly bales that I hide from the borders and they only see the pretty green ones that the horses don't like as much. I'm kinda surprised at the establishment time as well. It doesn't take much to make it happy....I put less fertilizer on it and it still grows like a weed.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

This field does not have much other than sage grass. I have another lease close to this one that is mostly Tifton 44 Bermuda. I also have Alicia Bermuda here at home. I could plant the tops of either Bermuda. The problem will be waiting until the tops are big enough to use as sprigs. I was thinking of hiring the strips done with roots sprigged.

The property is divided by a road. 30 acres on one side, 20 on the other. The 20 is in pretty good Bahia right now. A 20 next to it is a well managed Bahia field.

I really only need to concentrate on the 30 acres which makes it easier.

I need to plow the sage up to kill it. Time is getting close. I am going to drop some coins on seed or sprigs either way. We have always been Bermuda. The Bahia and Fescue hay we make off the farm is relatively new to me. I do have a couple of nice Bahia leased fields that make nice hay.

Thanks for the opinions.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

If you could burn the sage grass field prior to discing would be the best thing to do. I bale a few Bahia meadows for some people and it makes some nice hay but it is tough on mower blades.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

Around here root sprigging will run from $150-$200/ac with the sprigger supplying the sprigs. If using tops, it runs around $100/ac with them supplying the fresh cut tops. I've seen variations where the field owner supplies his own tops or supplies some of his own equipment and that runs the cost down to around $75/ac. Most of the conventional sprigging is finished by the end of March around here but tops will still be planted into July. Most guys get a cutting off in 8-10 weeks depending on water and fertilizer. Personally, if I wasn't sure I'd have it for more than 5 yrs., I'd plant a seeded Bermuda. I'm kinda fond of regular common Bermuda for a lot of reasons and it's pretty forgiving in how you go about planting it. Pretty cheap too. Regardless of seeded variety, you'd probably get a cutting in 3 months if rain and such is in your favor.

Best of luck!

Regards,

Steve


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's about the same cost as it is here, $150-200 per acre.....

I understand the delimma you face Tim, if it was a long term lease, I believe I would do sprigs to take advantage of the moist soil of spring.....my thoughts


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Our extension agent sent me some pictures of a Bahia field he planted. Had step by step labels on the process and what to expect. He said not to expect any hay this year.

I am checking on prices to sprig. I do have this field long term and hope after all this I can get it even longer.

I may weigh the costs between sprigging and planting common Bermuda. I really like our Alicia so I will go with a hybrid if I can.

Would love to get some Tifton 85 going. There is only one stand around here and it is unbelievable.


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## Troy Farmer (Jul 31, 2011)

If you are selling the hay. I would sprig Bermuda. There is always a demand for good bermuda. I have a few acres of Baha'i that I'm thinking of burning down to sprig in bermuda.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> Our extension agent sent me some pictures of a Bahia field he planted. Had step by step labels on the process and what to expect. He said not to expect any hay this year.
> I am checking on prices to sprig. I do have this field long term and hope after all this I can get it even longer.
> I may weigh the costs between sprigging and planting common Bermuda. I really like our Alicia so I will go with a hybrid if I can.
> Would love to get some Tifton 85 going. There is only one stand around here and it is unbelievable.


If I were you, knowing your feed requirements, without a doubt plant Tift 85.........I'll reiterate, without a doubt plant T-85. Use your Alicia fields for horsey customers to make make a measly income, but feed up the T85......you'll be money ahead by a long shot!


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> If I were you, knowing your feed requirements, without a doubt plant Tift 85.........I'll reiterate, without a doubt plant T-85. Use your Alicia fields for horsey customers to make make a measly income, but feed up the T85......you'll be money ahead by a long shot!


Tim do you have horsey customers anymore? I was thinking you fed it all?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Tim do you have horsey customers anymore? I was thinking you fed it all?


We no longer square bale. The focus now days is on producing for ourselves. I still get calls from people wanting the Alicia for horses. My mindset evolved and I like my cows more than other peoples horses, thus we make the best hay we can and take care of our own needs first.

I baled 100 more acres this past year and made 65 less rolls than the year before. No rain. I hope to make enough hay this coming year to be able to sell some. Will get mine in the barn first.

I talked to the local who has the Tifton 85. He said I would be running a higher risk with planting the 85. We are a little north of the ideal growing zone. His has done well just up the road.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Ya, it might be a lil north but if that guy hasn't had any problems then I would plant it.....with the amount of yield you'll get out of it, you may want to 1) get more cattle or 2) sell to horsey folk. (Can't make a dollar on the cattleman) CP on well fert Alicia will be in the 10-14 range......CP on T85 will be 13-18 and did I mention 8-10tpa.......hard to beat it


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

It looks like T85 is not going to happen. It seems no one sprigs much anymore. Found one man who sprigs Russell Bermuda, which seems to be a good variety. Extension agents from 2 counties have been trying to help.

I have decided to plant a seeded variety, Cheyenne2. Seed is going to cost around $100 per acre. Projected yield is 7.5 - 8 tons per acre. Cheyenne2 does not seem to revert back to common bermuda like some of the other seeded varieties might. It is also fairly cold tolerant, growing as far north as Tennessee and lower Kentucky.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow! $100 an acre! And has to be planted every year? Just travel to get the T85, I know it can be found close enuf to you....or does no one have a Bermuda King.......what about the feller that has it close, have you networked with him? That Cheyenne makes some good grass, heavy yields, but I'm not sure I could stand it if it was not a perennial.....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

The Cheyenne 2 is perennial. From what I have read it it the best producing seeded variety I can buy for the southeast.

I have been searching religiously for someone who would sprig T85. Is just not in the cards. I tried to rent a sprigging machine and do it myself. Just can't get any of the pieces to fall into place.

I should get a cutting from the Cheyenne this year. Was advised not to use a wheel rake the first year in fear if pulling up the runners before they are well attached. Looks like I will grease up the old roll bar side delivery for one cutting.

I ordered the Tifton9 bahia this morning to over seed 17 acres already in Bahia.

Spring is just around the corner and we will all be out in the hay fields before you know it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Didn't realize the Cheyenne 2 was a perennial.....that's more tolerable, how long do stands persist? 
Maybe get ya a acre or two (somethng you can do by hand) of T85 going and then you can sprig it out later, idk I just know you'd love it, nothing better for the cattleman.....as far as Baha'i goes, I like the Tift9, don't have any of it but have a friend that has about 25 acres he grazes it haying occasionally.....decent yield, doesn't seem as tough as pensacola but dries the same.....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Once established the Cheyenne 2 will last as long as other bermuda grasses. It will need fertilizer the same as other varieties to keep the stand strong. "Moody"grass loves nitrogen.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, one of these days you far southern boys are going to have to give us mid atlantic boys an education on Bermuda, Bahia and whatever else y'all raise down there. I wouldn't know it if I saw it but find it very interesting and watching this thread. Mike


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Bermuda is the most desired hay down south.

Here is a borrowed picture of a comanche 2 bermuda field


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

And here is a pic of one of my T85 fields.....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> And here is a pic of one of my T85 fields.....


Mouth watering bermuda you have there.

Your T85 will produce up to 20% more hay then what I am about to plant.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

They just need to GM it so as not have an addiction to "N"......what's the recommendation on your land Tim, prolly same as here or thereabouts......300-400pa here in our sand dunes


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

My Alicia Bermuda here at home is in good shape. The soil test reccomendation was only 100 lbs. of nitrogen per acre. PH is 6.2 here but has not always been that way. Allowing the cattle to graze has really helped. There was a time when we applied lime at a ton per acre every year. Nitrogen was 4 or 5 hundred per acre. We cut it for horse hay square bales then.

The new bermuda will be on a new leased field. It needed some help, been abused. I need to pull another solid sample. Applied 2 tons per acre of basic slag last spring. Hopefully the new tests will show some improvement.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

We struggle to keep ph above 6.....tough when applying that much N


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> We struggle to keep ph above 6.....tough when applying that much N


It is only since grazing that we have been able to sustain 6.0 or better. Could not make it happen when cutting 4 times a year. The soil tests would always call for at least 1,000 lb. of lime per acre. We would put a ton, may as well since we were going over the ground any way.

The next year the test would call for another 1,000 lb. of lime. Never quite figured that one out.

I bring most of the cows home to winter. I believe all the hay they are converting has helped replenish what we have removed all those years.


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## MtnCreek (Apr 10, 2014)

Hope no one minds that I'm bumping an old'ish thread.

Tim/South,

I saw where you stated Cheyenne II would cost $100 / ac. Do you mind sharing your planned seed rate and how you'll be seeding it? I'm about to plant this as well and I'm looking at ~$150 / ac seed cost. Buying seed for $255 / 25 lb and seeding at 15 lb / ac. Did I pay too much for the seed?

Thanks!


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I paid $235 for a 25 lb. bag of seed. I am planting at 10 lb. per acre. I believe that comes out to just under $100 per acre for seed. I was told 10 lb. per acre would be ample. Some said 7 lb. per acre would be adequate.

Hulled seed are supposed to have two million seeds per pound (1.5 million with unhulled). At 10 lb. per acre I should be putting out 20 million seeds per acre.

I will be dropping the seeds with a drill on a prepared seed bed, then cultipacking. I was advised to plant no deeper than 1/8 inch. This is why I am not actually drilling into the soil. Just too much room for error.

With the seed drill I can use the small seed attachment to monitor the seeding rate. As expensive as the seeds are and as tiny as they are I did not want to risk broadcasting.

I have knows people who mixed the seed with dry sand and broadcast it that way. Have known of the seed to be mixed with fertilizer and spread. Both the sand or fertilized will help carry the seed farther.


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## MtnCreek (Apr 10, 2014)

Thank You Sir for the info. Good luck with your grass.


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