# miscanthus grass hay- good/bad idea?



## Matty (Jul 20, 2011)

Miscanthus seems to be related, probably distantly, to sudan/johnson grass, which I hear is quite toxic.
I've also read that this grass is a biomass fuel, meaning that it might have lots of cellulose and therefore low palatablity. 
What is the low down on this stuff for hay? Good idea or bad idea?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Matty said:


> Miscanthus seems to be related, probably distantly, to sudan/johnson grass, which I hear is quite toxic.
> I've also read that this grass is a biomass fuel, meaning that it might have lots of cellulose and therefore low palatablity.
> What is the low down on this stuff for hay? Good idea or bad idea?


Sudan/Johnsongrass are NOT ALWAYS toxic, but can be under some conditions. Without testing, you don't know until your animals start showing symptoms. That unpredictability makes them unsutable for most horse hay producers whose customers are more picky. Horses can eat almost anything (beet pulp, rice bran, etc) if it is prepared correctly and the other nutritions are supplimented. They are however, designed for forage.

Your objective seems to be to maximize the amount of hay you can produce and therefor maximize the number of horses you can rescue. With your ten acres, you MIGHT be able to stock 2-3 if you rotate, irrigate, fertilize, and are extremely LUCKY with the weather. You could also get a high-paying job, build a hay shed for storage, X-fencing for some rotation, buy hay, and feed 10-15 horses on the same ground. People do it all the time. Horses cost money, if you want to keep a lot of them, you either need lots of land or lots of money.......it's even better if you have both.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

I do not know about the community Matty is living but those that do allow livestock have an acreage requirement. I have seen near Fort Worth a piece of ground, with horses, that may be 50 or so acres. It has so many horses all their nutrition is from hay and they are really a Confined Animal Feeding Facility. There are EPA requirements for such. Putting two horses on one city lot also should qualify for EPA rules.

I really do not know where Matty is gathering his local information, but local wisdom is can have a little truth and a lot of misinformation. I see it in the coffee shop information about feeding alfalfa and the Bugs. I have found Veterinarians who are wholly ignorant about the life and times of the blister beetle. They mostly attended TAMU and that cow college on the lower Brazos has put out some blister beetle misinformation also.

For the uninitiated the blister beetle is also known as the Spanish Fly.

With Forages, there just is not a free lunch. Never has been and never will be. Good management can do wonders but it can not overcome the restraints of the local climate and soil.
Rural land around Dallas is really only worth $500/acre, maybe. The laws of supply and demand has driven rural land into the realm of $5,000 /acre. Change that to urban real estate and the selling price can be $50,000 to $500,000 an acre. 
Your *You could also get a high-paying job, build a hay shed for storage, X-fencing for some rotation, buy hay, and feed 10-15 horses on the same ground. People do it all the time. Horses cost money, if you want to keep a lot of them, you either need lots of land or lots of money.......it's even better if you have both.* is so true.


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## Matty (Jul 20, 2011)

I live in Seagoville and around here I have never seen a single farm, south dallas is taking over. Plenty of check cashing places but no farms. The land around here is a minimum of $2,500 pr. acre. So... there is no local wisdom. I'm going completely by what is on the internet.

I am considering selling the land and moving to georgia to escape south dallas. My biggest concern about growing grass hay, not a legume, is what variety of grass will get me the most tons per acre when fertilized with compost or compost tea. I need a bermuda grass variety and actual numbers and proof to go along with claims.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Ok just keep in mind that a ton of grass forage in round numbers will use 40 lbs of actual nitrogen, 10 lbs of P2O5, 24 lbs of K2O, 5 lbs of Magneesium, 7 lbs of calcium, and 4 lbs of sulfur. It matters not whether you put it there as commerical fertilizer, poultry poop, or compost. That is what the grass will use. Grazing will return most of the essential elements to the soil in one form or another. 
Unrestricted grazing the animals stomp down 50% & Eat 50%. Of that 50% half is returned sent out the back. With managed grazing we can prevent the 50% stomped down part but nothing is for free that will use fertilizer.

I meet many folks who believe grazing is for free and no fertility is required. Well that can be true but the animals have to die and leave their body also return the elements to the soil.

Now with out any clovers we can expect up to 50 lbs of nitrogen with the rains. with out fertilizer we can take a little over a ton/A of reasonably good hay, but with fertility management we can expect a ton of hay for each 8 to 10 inches of useable rain. Useable means all the water stays where it lands. Nothing runs off to the gulf, or a stock pond.

We can for a while force the land to yield, but eventually it will look like the Middle East.


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## stanleykind (Dec 26, 2011)

Matty, I am from SW oklahoma. I saw this on TV and also want to know if I can feed it to cattle and if it has nutients in it.


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