# Horse Nettle Herbicides w/o Residuals



## VA Haymaker

Got a horse customer that relayed a story to me the other day out of concern that I use herbicides on my Timothy hay. The comment was, "how soon do you spray before you cut the hay?" The reason for the question was, apparently a friend of this person bought some "really clean" hay, fed it to their horses, scooped up the horse manure and recycled it onto their garden. Residuals were in the hay and they put a major hurt on the garden.

GrazonNext XL has residuals and I'm starting to associate super clean hay with herbicides that have residuals. There is a lot of it sold around here and I probably wouldn't be to far off the mark to assume the "really clean hay" had GrazonNext XL sprayed on it.

Before I bash GrazonNext XL - which is not my intent, I'd like to use it. Amazing that Bristol Va and Bristol TN are separated by a state line. There is a supplemental label that allows GrazonNext XL in Tennesee, but not one foot across the line in Virginia - go figure! My preference would be to use GrazonNext, which sounds like a terrific herbicide and will kill Horse Nettle, among other things - and inform the customer - don't put the horse manure on your beans....

Speaking of Horse Nettle.....

I've got some Horse Nettle. I don't use any herbicide with residuals to date. I hit the Nettle with both Pasturegard early spring and then with 2,4-d after the first cut. I don't recall seeing any Horse Nettle of any amount when I sprayed Pasturegard, but saw a bit when I sprayed with 2,4-d. The 2,4-d stung it, maybe some of it died, but I've still got some Horse Nettle.

Here is a link to a Virginia Tech PDF regarding Horse Nettle: https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/450/450-142/450-142_pdf.pdf

In the article under "Control in Forages", it speaks to the use of triclopyr and 2,4-d. Crossbow is such an herbicide combo - and has no residuals.

The article further states, "Long-term control of horsenettle, however, is much more difficult to achieve. High rates of Remedy® or Crossbow® will provide acceptable levels of long-term horsenettle control (Table 2); however, repeated applications of these herbicides over several years may be required for complete elimination of severe horsenettle infestations."

There is no table 2 - unless I'm missing it.

For some reason, I think I've read that 2,4-d is effective at killing or maybe the right term is burning the leaves, but does nothing for the roots????

Crossbow has 16.5% of triclopyr

Remedy has 60.45% of triclopyr

Pasturegard has 45.07% triclopyr - not as much as Remedy, but has almost triple triclopyr as Crossbow. The Virginia Tech publication is silent on Pasturegard and Horse Nettle. Maybe the publication is a bit dated?

Anyone having luck with Pasturegard alone killing Horse Nettle? I just can't remember from my past experience with it.

I realize to rid Horse Nettle - is a multi year process.

Anyone have any success with other non-residual herbicides and Horse Nettle?

Doing a little planning for next year.....

Thanks!

Bill


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## Vol

Bill, I would tend to suspect Milestone that did in the garden from the horse manure. It states clearly in the label that this will happen. Not sure about Grazon doing this as bad but it could I guess....I think Grazon tends to stay in the soil longer than most want...which is the big knock on it.

Nothing kills nettle as well as Grazon.

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline

I have had pretty decent success killing horse nettle with both remedy and pastureguard.....hard to say which was better on the nettle but I tend to like pastureguard better as it is hands down the best control of dewberry briars of anything available. Fully killing horsenettle will take a few applications to completely kill the whole root system.

I have never used GrazonNext but have used Grazon p&d a few times and I felt that pastureguard and remedy gave better control of the horsenettle than the p&d and no long lasting residual to boot. Grazon will for sure carry over in the manure and nail garden vegetables.....especially tomatoes.


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## 506

Grazon Next HL has restrictions requiring the seller of hay that has been treated with Grazon Next HL to advise the hay buyer of the impact of residuals in the manure from animals that eat the hay.


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## slowzuki

Both triclopyr and aminopyrolyd have carryover in manure. It's a problem we face fighting smooth bedstraw here.


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## r82230

leeave96 said:


> Anyone have any success with other non-residual herbicides and Horse Nettle?
> 
> Doing a little planning for next year.....
> 
> Thanks!
> Bill


Bill,

I went to the www.greenbook.net site, put in your state (Virginia), Crop category (Agriculture) crop (Timothy) and weed, then hit search. It came up with 51 products, that could be used (not that you would however, but for a FYI what is available in your state). You still need to do a lot of reading, however.

You have to register (it's free), but I have found this site useful, in finding chemicals that are outside my wheel house, per se. And as you pointed out state to state can be different, when it comes to chemicals.

Larry


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## VA Haymaker

Thanks everyone for your replies - very helpful info!


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## Tim/South

Both Picloram, used in Grazon P&D, and Triclopyr, used in Remedy Ultra, will pass through the gut. It is not absorbed by the animal, which is good. When passed through the gut it is still active. I do not know which component in GrazonXL causes the issues.

Hay producers are required to tell a customer that the hay has been treated with either of these two products, and probably more products that have the same effect.

Both the hay and manure carry the chemicals and should not be used as compost.

I remember reading where a fellow had a neighboring dairy spray manure on his organic veggie field. What plants came up were stunted or soon died. Veggie guy blamed the seeds. Seed company pulled a soil sample. The dairy lost in court and had to pay for the loss of the crop.


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## endrow

Good to hear people are taking residual seriously. Have a relative that's an auctneer at hay au ction . He says the person who purchases the herbicide aplies.
it will be liable unless they have a release form signed and all the Bales tagged with supplemental labeling. He said not uncommon for hay to be sold to a jockey from a jockey to a feed store from the feed store to another small dealer and then to a customer. He said that is why it is necessary to tag the Bales with supplemental labeling. Either way I would want to release form signed if I was the person that did the application of the herbicide or I was the person who bought the herbicide.... The Growers meeting we were at last year there was a guy there from USDA to upgrade our applicators licenses and he said" Boys there's no way in hell I would use any of those products they are the biggest @#%^ nightmare I have ever seen. But that's Pennsylvania in high-density areas and high-density housing agriculture areas probably on the Range they're fine. G


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## Hayman1

endrow said:


> Good to hear people are taking residual seriously. Have a relative that's an auctneer at hay au ction . He says the person who purchases the herbicide aplies.
> it will be liable unless they have a release form signed and all the Bales tagged with supplemental labeling. He said not uncommon for hay to be sold to a jockey from a jockey to a feed store from the feed store to another small dealer and then to a customer. He said that is why it is necessary to tag the Bales with supplemental labeling. Either way I would want to release form signed if I was the person that did the application of the herbicide or I was the person who bought the herbicide.... The Growers meeting we were at last year there was a guy there from USDA to upgrade our applicators licenses and he said" Boys there's no way in hell I would use any of those products they are the biggest @#%^ nightmare I have ever seen. But that's Pennsylvania in high-density areas and high-density housing agriculture areas probably on the Range they're fine. G


I don't want to use them but the reality is that they are the only things that work on the toxic weeds that horse folks don't want in their hay. So you are stuck with I don't like your hay because my horse left a horse nettle plant on the stall floor or controlling the weeds with residual herbicides. For straight sales, the warning should be "users should assume that residual herbicides may have been used". It is just today's reality.


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## endrow

. For straight sales, the warning should be "users should assume that residual herbicides may have been used". It is just today's reality. 
Farmers tried that 20 years ago in the beef and dairy Industries and it did not work... then of course there are herbicide with a practical residual,....Here the guys who grow tobacco will not grow or buy straight grass hay it always gotta have at least 10% Alfalfa or Clover or something like that. So with that type of the mix they are certain none of the residuals are present. I delivered hay to a lady in Chester County she had some odd-looking broadleaf plants growing on the top of her manure pile beside her horse barn. I asked about them she said the guy that picked up the manure will not pick up the manure if those plants do not grow in the manure pile.


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