# $5 diesel fuel?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Guys I think it's coming with the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. 
Obama won't OK the keystone pipeline, so no help coming from there.
I'm paying 4.45 right now, I could easily see this raising fuel .50.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Heating season is ending, though. It's hard to say. Once you get into a keystone debate, this thread won't stay in machinery long.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Just the latest excuse. Ruskie can't drink the oil! What's the expression? Spreading FUD? Could very well hit $5. has before and supply wasn't the issue. More FUD I recall. Iran that time.


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

The Canadian Tar Sands oil is not destined for US markets, it's all going to China. So even if the Keystone pipeline is built, it wouldn't help you guys out.

Gary


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

NewBerlinBaler said:


> The Canadian Tar Sands oil is not destined for US markets, it's all going to China. So even if the Keystone pipeline is built, it wouldn't help you guys out.
> 
> Gary


If they don't ship Canadian Tar Sand oil then just what do you think the Canadians will put in the keystone pipeline then?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

rajela said:


> If they don't ship Canadian Tar Sand oil then just what do you think the Canadians will put in the keystone pipeline then?


Obviously they'll put tar sands oil in the pipeline. But as that oil is already going elsewhere, it's not like it's a new supply with no other demand. Net global demand will remain the same. There would be a moderate efficiency increase in getting it to the gulf coast refineries which could result in a theoretical drop in price, but in a global market, probably not noticeable in the price of diesel at the pump. So if $5 fuel is coming, we'll see it either way.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Tar Sand oil has been hitting the US refineries since 2010. The first Keystone pipeline was completed to the Woodriver refinery, In Woodriver, IL at that time. From the Woodriver Refinery they can connect to several other refineries in the northern regions of the US. The leg from Cushing Okla to the gulf coast refineries was completed this winter and is now pumping oil. The Keystone XL Pipeline is or will be the second phase of the Transcanada Keystone Pipeline Project.

"theoretical drop in price" and don't lose any sleep over the price drop. US refineries has spent billions to upgrade their facilities so they can handle the Canadian Oil.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Either way, it looks like the environmentalists dreams of 5/gallon diesel fuel is going to be realized. 
It's ashame the aggressor, invader nations like Russia will end up costing Americans, Canadians, etc. billions more in increased prices for fuel and anything else made with or shipped by fuel.

I think someone oughta stop agressor nations like Russia from invading sovereign nations like Ukraine which causes pain and suffering around the world.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Aggressor nation.....you mean the United States of America. We have caused more problem around the world than we have ever fixed.

Believe me the Russian invasion has nothing to do with the price of diesel. The major oil company's are looking for any reason to raise the price at the pump.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rajela said:


> Aggressor nation.....you mean the United States of America. We have caused more problem around the world than we have ever fixed.
> Believe me the Russian invasion has nothing to do with the price of diesel. The major oil company's are looking for any reason to raise the price at the pump.


That was then, this is now. You might want to recall the US winning WW2. Was that not the most prolific victory that changed the course of the world? You and I would probably never have been born if it weren't for the US saving the world. My grandfather died in that war and I'm forever indebted to him.

Living in the present: So if Russia invades another sovereign nation and Obama admin applies economic sanctions to Russia, a huge supplier of oil, that will have NO effect on price of oil? 
Lol

Besides, even if we use your theory that major oil companies are looking for any excuse to raise prices (which I agree with) , if Russia didnt invade, that would be an excuse they wouldn't have to raise prices, right?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Also, aggressor nation Russia by invading Ukraine will cause a jump in wheat prices. Ukraine is like Kansas. It's the bread basket of the region. 
We will pay more for fuel during the coldest winter in global warming history, and more for products made with wheat. 
The poor in countries like the US and Canada will really be punished by Russia invading Ukraine at the gas pump, to heat their homes and at the supermarket.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Just like the jason aldean song "diesels worth the price of gold, its the cheapest grain hes ever sold". Atleast cattle and hog farmers are finally getting the prices to help pay it.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I dont worry much about what russia does been there seen this plenty of times.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

They are gonna raise the price regardless.....of who invades who. They raise the price at every opportunity. The price of oil is regulated by OPEC which has a quota on the amount of oil there members can ship. There won't be a shortage of oil to refine because of economic sanctions but it will be used by the oil companies to raise the price and there profits.


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> Also, aggressor nation Russia by invading Ukraine will cause a jump in wheat prices. Ukraine is like Kansas. It's the bread basket of the region.
> We will pay more for fuel during the coldest winter in global warming history, and more for products made with wheat.
> The poor in countries like the US and Canada will really be punished by Russia invading Ukraine at the gas pump, to heat their homes and at the supermarket.


Boy you really have a problem with this aggressor nation Russia thing.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rajela said:


> Boy you really have a problem with this aggressor nation Russia thing.


I sure as hell do. You should, too. 
You sure seem to have a problem with the US when they're an aggressor nation, don't you?


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

So, anyone looking at making their own biodiesel on the farm? Customer I worked with in NC Kansas has been making his own batches of fuel for quite some time. 600 gallons at a shot. Runs it in all his tractors, semi, and pick-ups. Last time we talked about it was a few years ago, he said at the time his fuel cost him $0.35/gallon to make. That was when diesel was running $2.80/gallon


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

rajela said:


> They are gonna raise the price regardless.....of who invades who. They raise the price at every opportunity. The price of oil is regulated by OPEC which has a quota on the amount of oil there members can ship. There won't be a shortage of oil to refine because of economic sanctions but it will be used by the oil companies to raise the price and there profits.


Yep, and Russia invading Ukraine gives them one more excuse to raise prices. We all suffer.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

aawhite said:


> So, anyone looking at making their own biodiesel on the farm? Customer I worked with in NC Kansas has been making his own batches of fuel for quite some time. 600 gallons at a shot. Runs it in all his tractors, semi, and pick-ups. Last time we talked about it was a few years ago, he said at the time his fuel cost him $0.35/gallon to make. That was when diesel was running $2.80/gallon


How does a guy go about making his own fuel?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> I sure as hell do. You should, too.
> You sure seem to have a problem with the US when they're an aggressor nation, don't you?


It never got them to far the last time except in record debt. Every country should just mind their own business and quit worrying what half a world away is doing. It jumps all the time. Here comes tropical storm whatever nowhere near the gulf lets raise it 50 cents a gallon. Somebody farts oh raise it again. It how oil works and because we have to go buy it when its high they keep doing it. Its called greed. When cattle took a shit I tried organizing nobody in ontario ship cattle for a month to wake them up. Some greedy farts shipped anyway.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Every country should just mind their own business and quit worrying what half a world away is doing. .


Until it happens to you, then you want all the countries in the world minding your business. 
I'm sure people of the Ukraine hope they have allies right now. 
I'm sure the free world did when Germany and Japan starting rolling over them, too. Lol


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

I said every country. Russia germans and japs included.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm damn proud my country "invaded" France and "invaded" Italy and "invaded" North Africa and the USA DIDN'T "mind their own business" to defend the world from the German, Japanese and Russian empires. I don't think you sit back and "mind your own business" while evil takes over the world. Sounds PC, but doesn't work. ASK NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN. 
Even if the liberals think its wrong, I'll die saying I'm proud of what my country did. Nobody's perfect and guess its real easy to rip a big dog in the fight when you're a little dog sitting on the porch.

It did what it thought was best at the time and that's all a man or a country can be expected to do.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Just remember nobody wins wars.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Just remember nobody wins wars.


But if all the aforementioned dictators and regimes had been allowed to win, who would have won then?


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Im not saying its wrong to step in. Im saying its wrong that we have to step in in the first place. If they minded their business we wouldnt have to step in. The problem I have is when we 'win' a war lots of families lose a member. But how is what russia is doing different then what we did about iraq and Afghanistan.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Comparing stepping in to break up a fight or help a weaker opponent, such as the US did in WW2 is far different than being an aggressor such as Iraq, Russia, etc. who steps in to take over a weaker opponent. 
You would have to be naive to believe that sick dictators such as hitler, Hussein, etc. don't exist. They DO NOT want to "mind their own business" they DO want to invade and conquest to take other sovereign nations, such as Russia is doing right now. 
Someone needs to help those who are weaker and are invaded. 
If you sit by and "mind your own business" as you suggest, I suppose the German empire would be in charge of your great country Canada, right now.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Ukraine was self destructing as it was. We dont understand it because we dont act like those people. We dont light shit on fire and throw rocks and whatever. We dont know whats really happening over there. Maybe russia is going about it wrong but if somebody didnt step in ukraine would have been a hole in the ground. Dont forget media can put whatever spin they want or are forced to.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

You can buy or build small biodiesel refinery set-ups. The raw stock is vegetable oil (most common is used fryer oil, but can use fresh oil). Can also be made from animal rendering. Essentially the oil is strained, heated with a catalyst added (lye and methanol), it breakdown and separates the fats. they goes thru a wash process. The result is diesel, with glycerine as a byproduct.

A very simplified description. There are companies that sell complete turnkey kits to make your own diesel. My customer used to go to a large community periodically and collect used fryer oil from the restaurants. He welded up almost all the components himself, which was why his cost was so cheap.

As to the other discussion, as a Marine Infantryman who spent a tour policing up another country's mess (Somalia '92-'93), I would rather we focused our efforts on solving our own problems first. We spend a fortune every year on aid to other countries, and the money we spend is borrowed from China. Not a great investment, when we have millions unemployed, hundreds of thousands homeless and hungry, a crumbling infrastructure, etc.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Thats what I was getting at. The system is so screwed. Help your own people first. Dont send aid and stuff to the countries in a hole nowhere send them a few skids of condoms. That fixes the root of the problem. What about the people that starve here and are turned away because you dont "qualify". I have no use for the way this world turns anymore. Jd your going on about hitler and we would be run by them. Think about this. What allies did the indians have when we came and took over their stuff. We just did it said screw you then packed them up in the shittiest land in reservations. It was fine for us to do it but not hitler? Whats the difference? None but because it worked out for us with the indians that was ok. If it didnt with hitler its catostrophic. Funny how the same shoe can fit different.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I guess we come from different schools of thought. The difference is that if we did something wrong to the Indians 300 yrs ago, then shame on us, but it looks like we learned something from it. Hitler didn't. Hirohito didnt. Russia didnt.

I say stop evil before it becomes too costly in human lives to stop. Chamberlain took your way- pacify, look the other way, then millions of people died. Even after the war, people died in Poland Chechloslovakia, to get free from Russia. If hitler was stopped earlier, million of people, including 11 million Jews, may have lived. 
Me? I say we stop it in its infancy. Take no chances. 
You say stay home, mind your business and let it grow. 
If we did that in WW2, we'd be worshipping at the altar of hitler and Hirohito.
Maybe that's ok with you, not me.

You won't always be right, but ignoring the problem won't make it go away. History has proven this over and over again.

BTW: I do believe in helping your own people first and I agree we have so much here at home going bad, but not ignoring a friend in need, either.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Ukraine was self destructing as it was. We dont understand it because we dont act like those people. We dont light shit on fire and throw rocks and whatever.


Oh no? You haven't been to a pro-union rally down here in Philly lately.. Lol


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

The unfortunate part is wars cost so much now it cant continue. Us is so far in debt now what happens if they need to fight now? Do they have the money to do it?


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

It's not really a question as to whether diesel hits $5, it's just how soon. At the bare minimum inflation will keep driving the price. Even if they put in the pipeline it's not just going to instantly be $2, there is really no scenario that I can possibly imagine to lower oil significantly with the path we are on. That said, the path we are on is a 2X4 propped into a lake of lava, you might fall off the side, might not, doesn't matter, the other end is in boiling rock and your not going backwards. good ukraine discussions over on the bash board lately.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You're right. We're never going back. What ticks me off is what got us there in the first place. Having to pay higher taxes on road fuels doesn't help. Maybe if we had fewer govt handouts going to lazy people, we wouldn't have to tax productivity by taxing fuel? 
Any excuse (war, hurricanes, etc.) keeps prices going up, but they don't come down much.
Bottom line is, my prices to customers will be higher.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> The unfortunate part is wars cost so much now it cant continue. Us is so far in debt now what happens if they need to fight now? Do they have the money to do it?


Canada is flush with cash. Maybe they can do it for a while. 
How much are you willing to sacrifice to keep your nation sovereign? Keep your freedoms? 
America was Ina depression when WW2 started. Can't be much worse off than that.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Or look into bio fuel


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Or look into bio fuel


When bio fuel was actually sold here in my area, it was within a few cents on fossil fuel. 
Only home made bio fuel would be cheaper, and likely illegal for OTR use.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Tell the dot to shove it. Thats what i do. Who the hell are they to tell me what to do. Tax this tax that. Soon they will have a 5 cent a fart carbon tax. I guess when I get in the beer and pepperettes ima gonna go broke.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> Tell the dot to shove it. Thats what i do. Who the hell are they to tell me what to do. Tax this tax that. Soon they will have a 5 cent a fart carbon tax. I guess when I get in the beer and pepperettes ima gonna go broke.


as long as there is no dye in it you could probably get away with it but there is just not nearly enough deep fryers in this world to sustain much of a home brew operation.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Aawhite says you can use raw oil to. I saw a machine at the farm show that takes soybeans and takes the oil out and leaves you with the meal for protein for animal feed. That would work.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

cmd said:


> as long as there is no dye in it you could probably get away with it but there is just not nearly enough deep fryers in this world to sustain much of a home brew operation.


It would be a part time job collecting fryer oil and cleaning it. Screw that.


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

To save 4 a gallon I would make it a full time job and then sell it for 4 a gallon everybody else saves and I make huge money.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

A little info on Bio diesel plant near me.They crush about 100,000 bu of beans a day.Soy meal & soy hulls goes for livestock feed.Some of the soyoil is made into biodiesel.

http://www.mnsoy.com/biodiesel-pricing-info


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ontario hay man said:


> To save 4 a gallon I would make it a full time job and then sell it for 4 a gallon everybody else saves and I make huge money.


Yeah you'd be a real rock star. 
Probably be able to keep farming. Won't take much time at all. Lol


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

Im talking about the bean press


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## ontario hay man (Jul 18, 2013)

http://www.homebiodieselkits.com/frfuspl.html says here make 40 gallons in less then half an hour. 8 hours a day is 640 gallons. That could pay real good.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Until it happens to you, then you want all the countries in the world minding your business.
> I'm sure people of the Ukraine hope they have allies right now.
> I'm sure the free world did when Germany and Japan starting rolling over them, too. Lol


im just going to point one thing out here ok, i have nothing but respect for the men and women who served and gave everything for they're countries and i'd like to think i have the courage to do the same thing if it was asked of me. BUT..... most of the rest of the world was deeply embroiled in fighting a war that was at the time very much a losing effort in 1939 through till the end of 1941. It wasnt until december 7th 1941 that another child in the sandbox poked uncle sam in the eye with a really big stick that he decided to do more then supply some material to a conflict he felt was oceans away and didnt deserve his time or his soldiers.

So really... how noble was the american cause of selling arms and such just as long as it kept the pocket books to keep getting fatter and drive off what was left of a very rough 11 years of historic debt and poor desicions.

So please don't patronize us hiding behind your keyboard spouting off about how you yanks did such a great job saving the world. in all reality it definitly breed a whole pile of arrogance that just makes the rest of us sick....

oh and by the way.... up here in cash rich canada.... we've been spending five dollars a gallon for diesel here and then some for over 6 months, as well as higher equipment prices, higher fert prices, higher labour costs and being tied down to a floundering american greenback all the while waiting for a spineless whitehouse admin. to pass a bill to allow us to ship you something you desperately need and we are more then willing to give if you'd all just get off that very very tall horse you've been on for years and admit you could use some financial help and marketing from such a lowly place as canada.

sorry to ruffle feathers, i just dont like the attitude there bud.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

No problem, you want to disparage America and minimize the sacrifices it made to keep the world free, I defend you're right to speak those disparaging anti-America remarks. 
I don't believe "the rest of us" includes very many people who belong to this website. IMO, most people who belong to this website think America has done more than probably the rest of the world put together to keep the world free of history's lunatic murderers. 
I'll put my country's sacrifices up to yours anytime. 
And BTW- I'm not hiding behind any keyboard any more than you are and I don't care for your America disparaging remarks much either, BUD.
Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers, too.


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## AaronQ (Feb 25, 2013)

by all means put the sacrifice up against it. kind of disrespectful but sure lets do it.

from 1939 till nearly 1942 while america was still trying to follow switzerlands lead everyone else was fighting for their lives and lets be honest. if it wasnt for pearl harbour im pretty sure no american soldier would have seen combat as long as there was everyone else out there willing to punch it out.

between 1939 and 1945 canada sent 1.1 million troops overseas. for a country of 10.5 million that seems like a fairly large sacrifice to me and i dont think many would argue that but like ontario hay man said most americans think they're crap smells like roses. i really dont know how it got that way but oh well i'll pay my 1.38 per litre for fuel and you can have all your so called nationalistic pride and thump your chest all you want but what have you done is the last 65 years.

in motocross we say your only as fast as your last race. there's been a lot of races since august 1945


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

This country vs. country venom that is being exchanged is doing nothing but breeding hate......this will lead to nothing but disaster for this website. I do not think there is anyone out there that wants to see this site disappear like many sites have....

I hope folks are mature enough to let this go and not be so juvenile as to worry with "getting the last word in"....there is no one or no thing perfect in this world.

Please do not bring disaster upon your own head.....where will you go to enjoy "haytalk" type forums?

Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Vol said:


> This country vs. country venom that is being exchanged is doing nothing but breeding hate......this will lead to nothing but disaster for this website. I do not think there is anyone out there that wants to see this site disappear like many sites have....
> 
> I hope folks are mature enough to let this go and not be so juvenile as to worry with "getting the last word in"....there is no one or no thing perfect in this world.
> 
> ...


Well stated Mike. rick


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## puritanize (Apr 16, 2013)

Agreed, this is moving to the Political area and will be closed. This forum is a great place to discuss Hay and Forage which is something everyone should have in common. This' my country is better than yours' stuff has no place here, as well as the personal attacks don't either. All of our countries have issues and great points as well. Let's try and keep it more civil when we disagree please. I don't want to ban folks, something I don't think has ever been done here.


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