# Brome hay?



## FarmerCline

I have heard some of y'all mention brome hay before but what exactly is it? Does it make good hay and what does it yield? How does it compare to orchard grass?

The reason I ask is I picked up a new customer today that bought 300 bales of my oat hay, she mentioned she had been having brome hay brought in from out west and wanted to know if I could grow it. She was very pleased with the quality of my oat hay and said that she wanted to start buying her hay from me....this is the first time I have ever had any luck selling hay to women buyers.


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## ontario hay man

It makes good hay. It yields similar to orchard grass. I actually prefer it over orchard grass just because if you get a stretch of bad weather and cant get it cut when you should the orchard will turn to sticks. It looks ssimilar to oats.


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## Lostin55

For years I ran with potomac orchard and paddock brome. It worked well for me here. In regard to yield, I got roughly 2.5 TPA/year over 4 years. It recovers much better if you leave more stubble when cutting it. I also have irrigated ground and that could make a difference as well.


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## Waterway64

Brome is a cool season invader here that produces a good first cutting but will not produce significantly in following cuttings. It will choke out alfalfa in 3-4 yrs. it produces much more seed talk than orchard grass. It will not yield as we'll or as good of quality as oc. It grows everywhere here and I don't like it. Mel


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## Teslan

We primarily have either meadow brome or smooth brome. Meadow Brome supposedly provides better production then smooth brome, but I kind of have my doubts on that. Smooth Brome spreads nicely and after a few years you can wind up with a field that is like a carpet or a lawn. The reason I say I have my doubts that meadow brome produces better then smooth brome is that we have a field of smooth brome that is older then I am (39 years), but is our top producing field. It is the fastest recovery of cutting and draught of any field we have. Most of the time when we plant grass hay we plant a mix of orchard and brome. Brome is much harder to establish out here. As for selling it. It is wonderful. Everyone loves it. 2nd and 3rd cuttings are so pretty, soft and green. First cutting we let head and stem out a bit to get more production, but even it looks better then orchard. It also is better on water use then orchard. I will add that it impresses people a lot. I don't think horses, cows, sheep, goats care if it's orchard, or brome.


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## 8350HiTech

Here in central PA, brome won't yield later cuttings like orchard will. It will, however, make super nice horse hay and, probably more importantly, allow a much wider harvest window than orchard grass ever will. If we're not cutting orchard before June, it feels too late. Brome is two weeks behind (usually) but will not go down hill nearly as fast as the OC. It will still make average horse hay July 1. The orchard is brown by then. Smooth brome is moderately difficult to establish. You definitely don't want weedy grasses in the field you're starting because they'll go nuts until the brome finally gets going.


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## FarmerCline

From what I gather it sounds like brome is a spreading grass rather than a bunch grass like orchard. I'm assuming it matures about the same time as orchard since I see that some of you plant that as a mix. Also I see that there are some different types of brome you mention, which one is the best for hay? The only brome I am familiar with is downy brome and I sure don't want to plant something like that.

On orchard grass I generally get 3 tons per acre on first cut and depending on the rainfall second cut will be around 1 to 1.5 tons.

Would brome compare more to timothy or orchard grass as far as regrowth? Here timothy does not do so well with the heat of the summer and orchard does fair.


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## Teslan

FarmerCline said:


> From what I gather it sounds like brome is a spreading grass rather than a bunch grass like orchard. I'm assuming it matures about the same time as orchard since I see that some of you plant that as a mix. Also I see that there are some different types of brome you mention, which one is the best for hay? The only brome I am familiar with is downy brome and I sure don't want to plant something like that.
> 
> On orchard grass I generally get 3 tons per acre on first cut and depending on the rainfall second cut will be around 1 to 1.5 tons.
> 
> Would brome compare more to timothy or orchard grass as far as regrowth? Here timothy does not do so well with the heat of the summer and orchard does fair.


For me it's pretty much the same as orchard grass. And yes it spreads. Which is why I like it. If a patch dies due to lack of water or something usually within a year and having good irrigation it fills in. I don't know anything about Timothy to compare it to. They sell mixes of meadow brome and smooth brome around here. There are different varieties within those categories though.


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## 8350HiTech

You mix brome and orchard (or brome and timothy) because it makes your hay more leafy. You can still sell it as "timothy" but it looks ten times nicer. It's nice to have the full sod too.

And as Teslan said, it lasts indefinitely. There's a field here that has been in smooth brome since dad started renting a nearby farm over thirty years ago. It is still making me as nice of horse hay as any stand of anything here.


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## swmnhay

I had 85 acres of Meadow Brome/alfalfa.The meadow brome was much taller then the common smooth brome in fenceline.About a ft taller.And was finer stemed then the smooth brome.The finer stems made the hay weigh up more then expected.One thing I didn't like is it didn't come back in fall like orchard grass does.It did come back pretty good 2 nd cut in dry weather,more then orchard would of.

I'm thinking a Alf/Meadow Brome/Orchard would be a nice mix.


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## hog987

In the mix I grow it is a hybred brome(smooth/meadow) This was chosen with the alfalfa and timothy because it will yield high but wont really crowd out the alfalfa over time. It does not come back as much as the timothy and alfalfa for a second cutting, but still does add leaf mass to bale. Around here it seems to grow forever. Some that was seeded along fence lines and such might be over 50 years old.


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## Hayman1

will brome overseed into a year old stand of timothy and if so, is that something for spring or fall and at what rate? Mainly thinking of filling all the gaps before weeds do.


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## swmnhay

Hayman1 said:


> will brome overseed into a year old stand of timothy and if so, is that something for spring or fall and at what rate? Mainly thinking of filling all the gaps before weeds do.


Yes,it should work.I'd use notill drill and seed 15-20 lbs acre.I prefer early spring for interseeding.


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## 8350HiTech

Hayman1 said:


> will brome overseed into a year old stand of timothy and if so, is that something for spring or fall and at what rate? Mainly thinking of filling all the gaps before weeds do.


I'd think weeds would be more competitive than new brome grass, but I guess it might work.


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## swmnhay

8350HiTech said:


> I'd think weeds would be more competitive than new brome grass, but I guess it might work.


I always add some annual ryegrass when interseeding thin alf stands.The AR grows faster and fills in yr 1 and the perennial grasses take longer to establish and fill in yr 2.

We used a lot of this last yr on winter damaged alf here.

http://www.producerschoiceseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/RevivePastureMixProdSheet.pdf


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## Hayman1

swmnhay said:


> I always add some annual ryegrass when interseeding thin alf stands.The AR grows faster and fills in yr 1 and the perennial grasses take longer to establish and fill in yr 2.
> 
> We used a lot of this last yr on winter damaged alf here.
> 
> http://www.producerschoiceseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/RevivePastureMixProdSheet.pdf


Most of the timothy stand is thick-I seeded with a brillion till and seed no till in teff stubble. It was really hard to see exactly where the planted edge was to keep from getting a few skips-maybe 4-6" wide between passes in places- I will drill 2x at right angles in the future. I have worked really hard to establish this timothy so I don't want to choke it out with ryegrass. Timothy was seeded last sept (13) and is about 1-1/2" high. So I figured that the brome would fill in any gaps eventually or are you saying it is too slow and something else like summer grasses will beat it to the punch? Unfortunately, my experience has been you never really know exactly what you have until mid april-early may following fall seeding so I am still waiting to pronounce my fall seeding a total success.


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## swmnhay

You may not want the AR grass in it because it is a coarser grass and for horse hay they may not like it.If the brome grass takes in the bare spots it should be fine but slower to establish and the timothy seeded the yr before would be competing with it.

I reread your post and see it was seeded last fall so reseeding this spring should work fairly well.Better then a more established stand anyway.


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## FarmerCline

Does anyone know how meadow or smooth brome would do in my climate? I'm assuming it would need to be fall planted this far south.


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## aawhite

I would think it would do well. We grew 100 ac. of smooth brome in SE Iowa, baled in rounds for dry cow hay, and rebaled small squares for close-up cows on the dairy. Averaged around 3 tons to the acre. Only fertilizer was cattle manure. We took one heavy cutting around June, and sometimes one other light cutting in later summer. It was nice to put up, made great hay if cut before going to seed, very tolerant of cold and heat. That field was in brome for well over 30 years when Dad and uncle sold the dairy. The field we had it on was very steep, so the heavy sod that brome forms was perfect to hold the soil.

The key is to put it up at the right time, palatability goes down when cut too late. You would have to trade some yield for quality, same as any other grass.


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## Bgriffin856

Have a seven acres of brome orchard grass mix. Makes beautiful first crop and the orchard grass thickens up the second crop. Pretty good mix to me

Brome has a large seed might have a difficult time seeding through a grass seed box on a grain drill


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## Teslan

Bgriffin856 said:


> Have a seven acres of brome orchard grass mix. Makes beautiful first crop and the orchard grass thickens up the second crop. Pretty good mix to me
> 
> Brome has a large seed might have a difficult time seeding through a grass seed box on a grain drill


Exactly. If we want to plant just brome with our Great Plains drill we have to mix cracked corn with it. Eventually though the brome will take over the orchard around here.


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## ontario hay man

I use a 3pth fertilizer spreader for brome.


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## Hayman1

ontario hay man said:


> I use a 3pth fertilizer spreader for brome.


Spring or fall? Do you roll or drag afterwards? What rate do you seed?


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## ontario hay man

What I do is plow in the fall then work really good in the spring. Spread fertilizer then spread 10lb/ acre brome then I chain harrow it and pick big stones then I plant alfalfa timothy with oat in a jd 8250 with the packer on behind.


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## Hayman1

ontario hay man said:


> What I do is plow in the fall then work really good in the spring. Spread fertilizer then spread 10lb/ acre brome then I chain harrow it and pick big stones then I plant alfalfa timothy with oat in a jd 8250 with the packer on behind.


ok, understand. your situation is totally different than mine. I no-tilled timothy in teff stubble fall 2013 and just want to fill in open areas. given the winter we are having I could easily frost seed red clover but the horse folks don't want it so I was going to do brome in late march.


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## ontario hay man

That should work fine


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## endrow

Brome. Is a godsend probably many places ..For me it is a weed. It would give us 1 cutting at two and a half ton per acreand that is all for the year .Then it would creep into some nearby hay fields and d try to make them one cutting a year fields as well


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## 8350HiTech

endrow said:


> Brome. Is a godsend probably many places ..For me it is a weed. It would give us 1 cutting at two and a half ton per acreand that is all for the year .Then it would creep into some nearby hay fields and d try to make them one cutting a year fields as well


Partially agree. You don't want a whole farm of straight brome grass. But in a mix it really beautifies your coarser hay types. Also, having a few acres in straight brome, even with less top-end yield potential, is nice because you can spread out your harvest window as opposed to, say, all orchard. You might get less total tons, but if it's nicer, great. I'd rather deal with less volume but higher quality so it can work out really well if managed as part of plan for the whole farm.


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## Bgriffin856

8350HiTech said:


> Partially agree. You don't want a whole farm of straight brome grass. But in a mix it really beautifies your coarser hay types. Also, having a few acres in straight brome, even with less top-end yield potential, is nice because you can spread out your harvest window as opposed to, say, all orchard. You might get less total tons, but if it's nicer, great. I'd rather deal with less volume but higher quality so it can work out really well if managed as part of plan for the whole farm.


Always nice to grow all kinds of straight grasses and mixtures plus have a good rotation of other crops to guard against weather and crop failures. Plus if your like us and farm all different types of ground you can match crops to the soil and some ground grows better than others.


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## 8350HiTech

Bgriffin856 said:


> Always nice to grow all kinds of straight grasses and mixtures plus have a good rotation of other crops to guard against weather and crop failures. Plus if your like us and farm all different types of ground you can match crops to the soil and some ground grows better than others.


Exactly. That steep slope field next to the woods that doesn't grow much anyway and you don't want to work the ground EVER AGAIN just begs for something like brome.


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## FarmerCline

Hayman1 said:


> ok, understand. your situation is totally different than mine. I no-tilled timothy in teff stubble fall 2013 and just want to fill in open areas. given the winter we are having I could easily frost seed red clover but the horse folks don't want it so I was going to do brome in late march.


 If I remember correctly I think you said you planted a very late maturing variety of timothy.....if the brome is going to mature and be ready to cut before the timothy it may be an issue to have over ripe brome in the timothy. I know for my hay market it would.


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## Hayman1

FarmerCline said:


> If I remember correctly I think you said you planted a very late maturing variety of timothy.....if the brome is going to mature and be ready to cut before the timothy it may be an issue to have over ripe brome in the timothy. I know for my hay market it would.


Interesting point Cline- however, my experience with the co-ops "late" varieties is that they are not all that far behind. Also, the late ogs don't yield close to what Potomac does-it is just that Potomac should be cut on the 4th of May here which never works for horse hay and our weather. So when you can cut and make it-it is over mature. I will cut the timothy when it is best for both the tim and the brome. I don't seem to get more than about 2.5 tons anyway. Our second and third cuttings are weed control exercises in both og and timothy- a few beautiful bales per acre, but not worth the fuel.

Last year I did a test of topping a mixed grass field in april and first of may then fertilized and cut 1st cutting in early july- fabulous hay (all the fertilizer went into vegetative growth, not seed production) and a decent second cutting in late sept. Thinking of expanding that technique to a second and possibly a third field this spring and topdressing one of them to see if I get a return on that.

got to keep pushing the envelope to see how to do better each year.


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## FarmerCline

Hayman1 said:


> Interesting point Cline- however, my experience with the co-ops "late" varieties is that they are not all that far behind. Also, the late ogs don't yield close to what Potomac does-it is just that Potomac should be cut on the 4th of May here which never works for horse hay and our weather. So when you can cut and make it-it is over mature. I will cut the timothy when it is best for both the tim and the brome. I don't seem to get more than about 2.5 tons anyway. Our second and third cuttings are weed control exercises in both og and timothy- a few beautiful bales per acre, but not worth the fuel.
> 
> Last year I did a test of topping a mixed grass field in april and first of may then fertilized and cut 1st cutting in early july- fabulous hay (all the fertilizer went into vegetative growth, not seed production) and a decent second cutting in late sept. Thinking of expanding that technique to a second and possibly a third field this spring and topdressing one of them to see if I get a return on that.
> 
> got to keep pushing the envelope to see how to do better each year.


 Here the early varieties of orchard grass are a few weeks earlier than timothy and if you cut when the timothy is ready the hay looks like crap because of the ripe orchard and if you cut when the orchard is ready the timothy has not headed out and you don't know it's even in it. The main incentive for me to grow timothy is I can get a premium pice for it and if it's not headed out they don't think its timothy so I defeat the purpose of growing it.

The late orchard and a timothy that is an early maturing variety seem to work well together. I'm not sure where the brome would come into the picture but I'm thinking it may be closer to the orchard since that is what most seem to be growing with it.


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## Bgriffin856

We put timothy in all mixes. If cut early it raises feed value of the hay


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## SVFHAY

Hayman1 said:


> Interesting point Cline- however, my experience with the co-ops "late" varieties is that they are not all that far behind. Also, the late ogs don't yield close to what Potomac does-it is just that Potomac should be cut on the 4th of May here which never works for horse hay and our weather. So when you can cut and make it-it is over mature. I will cut the timothy when it is best for both the tim and the brome. I don't seem to get more than about 2.5 tons anyway. Our second and third cuttings are weed control exercises in both og and timothy- a few beautiful bales per acre, but not worth the fuel.
> 
> Last year I did a test of topping a mixed grass field in april and first of may then fertilized and cut 1st cutting in early july- fabulous hay (all the fertilizer went into vegetative growth, not seed production) and a decent second cutting in late sept. Thinking of expanding that technique to a second and possibly a third field this spring and topdressing one of them to see if I get a return on that.
> 
> got to keep pushing the envelope to see how to do better each year.


I have been trying to get my courage up to try this the last few years. I should do at least 50 acres. I keep finding excuses not to. How high did you cut? Was orchard showing heads? What rate of fertilizer ? Any residue left when you harvested? Thanks.


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## FarmerCline

Bgriffin856 said:


> We put timothy in all mixes. If cut early it raises feed value of the hay


 Horse hay buyers don't think its timothy if they don't see the seed heads....no seed heads and it's just regular grass which doesn't bring the premium price that one needs to grow timothy here. Timothy is just barley adapted to growing here....just too far south. If it were not for the extra amount I can get for a bale of timothy it would not be worth growing as other grasses will yield more.


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## barnrope

Teslan said:


> Exactly. If we want to plant just brome with our Great Plains drill we have to mix cracked corn with it. Eventually though the brome will take over the orchard around here.


Always seed oats with it to get it started and mix the brome with the oats in the drill box. I use a feed mixer grinder and put the oats and brome in the mixer and let the feed mixer run for a while. Then I use the auger on the feed grinder/mixer to fill the drill. The scale on the grinder/mixer can be useful when filling too.

Just don't run it through the hammer mill when filling the mixer.


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## Hayman1

SVFHAY said:


> I have been trying to get my courage up to try this the last few years. I should do at least 50 acres. I keep finding excuses not to. How high did you cut? Was orchard showing heads? What rate of fertilizer ? Any residue left when you harvested? Thanks.


I clipped a mixed grass (bluegrass, KY31 and orchard grass-long established sod) in April and on May14th. May 15-20 is our normal frost date. Fertilized with 50-50-50 a day later and cut the hay on July 14. Unfortunately, I forgot to write down the April date but had a buttercup infestation so I suspect it was 15-20th of April. I have a 3210 bushhog and I set the cylinder to have about 1-1/2 " clearance on the rails on a concrete floor which cuts about 8 or more inches. I run slow enough to cut clean. Very little residue either time-withholding fertilizer until after the second bushhoging helps alot.

My goals were to move primary harvest to hot weather, and to force the fertilizer to support vegetative growth, not seed heads. Practically no seed heads in the hay cut. You want the bushhogging to trim off adn stop development of the seed head. Worked great for me and it was some of the prettiest hay I made-still nice and green this week with no preservatives-horses love it. Going to do at least two fields this year the same way. good luck-heck try it on a small field- what can it hurt?


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## 6125

I've seen the neighbor here eradicate chickweed and shephardspurse in an orchardgrass/alfalfa field here a few years with gramoxone, and couldn't believe how it delayed the orchardgrass maturity. He wasn't happy about it, but having it delayed sure spread the window for making it while it was still green. Of course that wasn't his original intentions.


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## SVFHAY

Okay, I'm not sure if it takes 2 trips it would be cost effective unless you had another goal beyond spreading your harvest window, like in your case weed control. I will likely try it on limited acres. 3 out of 4 years first cut is too mature when I finish but I worry that the year I try this will be a replay of '99 or 2000. One of those was a late frost followed by dry summer. That about finished me.

Never tried gramoxone but I know 24d banvel will delay maturity if applied to grasses at the right time in spring. You will also harvest less tons and create an opportunity for some other weed to move into open areas.btdt.


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## Hayman1

SVFHAY said:


> Okay, I'm not sure if it takes 2 trips it would be cost effective unless you had another goal beyond spreading your harvest window, like in your case weed control. I will likely try it on limited acres. 3 out of 4 years first cut is too mature when I finish but I worry that the year I try this will be a replay of '99 or 2000. One of those was a late frost followed by dry summer. That about finished me.
> 
> Never tried gramoxone but I know 24d banvel will delay maturity if applied to grasses at the right time in spring. You will also harvest less tons and create an opportunity for some other weed to move into open areas.btdt.


I would not suggest doing it to a lot of acreage, but it sure helps with the goal of making all good hay. The bushogging did not take that long-that is why the two trips was to keep the residue to a minimum. Really don't notice it at all in the hay I made but I am sure there is a little bit there. Guess if you can't see it and you are getting 300$ a ton for everything including the residue, that is ok. Our experiences here with the co-op spraying winter annuals in spring has been dismal. Last year I had them spray chapperal on the field in question for henbit and chickweed control and their nozzles were off and some were plugged- not sure what I am going to see this spring. I am looking at it as first cutting volume with second cutting quality and sale price.


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## pengs68

We make a Brome, Orchard, Timothy mix. Last year we were still putting up 1st cut in September because of the terrible weather all summer. The brome stayed green plus the undergrowth a lot of people thought it was 2nd cut. It looks great in a bale all season long and our horse customers love it.


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## Hayman1

Looking at AC Success or Macbeth Brome to overseed my timothy with in March. Anyone in the mid east used either of these and if so, what were your results?


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## Bgriffin856

barnrope said:


> Always seed oats with it to get it started and mix the brome with the oats in the drill box. I use a feed mixer grinder and put the oats and brome in the mixer and let the feed mixer run for a while. Then I use the auger on the feed grinder/mixer to fill the drill. The scale on the grinder/mixer can be useful when filling too.
> 
> Just don't run it through the hammer mill when filling the mixer.


Good idea. Have trouble with orchard grass and even tall fescue in the grass seed box. Never thought of using the mixing tank on the grinder mixer. How fast do you run it?


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## 8350HiTech

Bgriffin856 said:


> Good idea. Have trouble with orchard grass and even tall fescue in the grass seed box. Never thought of using the mixing tank on the grinder mixer. How fast do you run it?


Or you could just buy your orchard grass without hulls and run it in the small box.


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