# How to start a new hay field, in existing weedy hayfield?



## whitmerlegacyfarm

Ok all i know i keep posting this but i'm getting close to crunch time here for a Fall Seeding. I'm awaiting my soil sample to arrive in the next few days. I tried no tilling in O grass and Timothy this spring with no such luck. I took a 2nd cut off these fields, and curious what i should do know. I need to get better hay established to make it more worth my time of haying these 4 acres. I'm located in PA. My thoughts...

Do i have spray down w/ 2,4-D now that i just cut, and see what happends and then no till over w/ new seed in spring or fall? Do i round up it or let what's there?

Or do i plow it under and start from scratch. The little patches i have done on bare ground w/ blowing and cultipacking the seed in has always done well i'm just not sure what to at this point. If i do plow, do i need to put a cover crop in? It will be horse hay and would like to get a 1st cutting off next summer for the horses. Will be planting o grass maybe mixing timothy in also.

Thanks


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## ARD Farm

I'd use glyphosate and wipe it out 12-14 days prior to a reseed (in the fall). I like glyphosate because it's a systemic herbicide and basically has no residue.


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## Teslan

I'm not sure what farming is like in PA. But I'm most likely going to do a similar thing to one of my orchard grass fields. I plan to disc it possibly twice to break up all the sod and grass clumps, then rip it and cross rip it. Disc again then run our mulcher/packer over it and plant it in Alfalfa next spring possibly with oats. I guess if you are just reseeding you don't need to go to those extremes though.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Another reason i'd like to plow is the field is very rough, so i would like to try and smooth it back out again. It's only about 2 ac, my concern is if i do plow and disc it, do i need to put a cover crop in, and if so what would be ok that i could still cut w/ the hay in the early summer.


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## Vol

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> Another reason i'd like to plow is the field is very rough, so i would like to try and smooth it back out again. It's only about 2 ac, my concern is if i do plow and disc it, do i need to put a cover crop in, and if so what would be ok that i could still cut w/ the hay in the early summer.


If the field is rough, go ahead and plow it and work it down nice and plant it when your local extension office/agent recommends....and ask your extension agent whether you need a cover crop THERE or not. Not necessary HERE, but THERE could be different. Always consult locally for particulars.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

If planting grass we also don't do a cover crop, however you might have to cut earlier then you want if weeds start getting bad.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

So soil sample came back today. This was my first soil sample so far, this field came in at 5.2 for PH recommendation is for 4,000lb of lime/ac. guess this is why i couldn't get no grass hay established this spring w/ no till. So now when do i lime? Before i plow or after i plow and disc? Then seed over top of the lime?


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## joeberg

There are a thousand ways to do it.

This is what I did last year -- In the fall, I limed the field and plowed it up. Let the winter snows break up some of the sod chunks and give some time to let the lime to-do it's magic.. In the spring, I disc'd it many times to break up the sod chucks. Once you got it to your liking, I fertilized and lightly disc it once more. I waited for the last average frost. I sowed in some oats and then I planted hay (alfalfa, smooth brome, Timothy, and fescue) with a Billion Seeder. Depending on how level the field is, you might want to come back and roll it.

I took the oats off and made hay. Because of the rain this year, I won't get a full crop off it.


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## Mike120

Not sure why you want to plow + disk, but then I don't know your ground. I don't see the need to turn over that deep and I would think it would change the profile from your soil test. I would normally spread the lime and incorporate it with a disk. For me that's deep enough and I'll usually incorporate any needed P & K while I'm at it. Like Joe said, I like to let it set over the winter, but when you've got it smooth there's no reason I can think of why you couldn't seed/roll it.....If you have time for it to get established before it freezes.


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## Josh in WNY

I'm close to your neck of the woods, so I have an idea of what you are dealing with as far as weather. However, I do have Lake Erie setting to my west, so that may put the date of my first frost a little later than you. I'm also haying heavy clay ground and if you are on something different, that could change things.

Normally I plow the field under and get it worked nice and smooth in the late July to early August timeframe. I will plow it and then go over it with a disc or cultimulcher till I have it about where I want it. Then spread the lime and fertilizer on it and work it in to the soil with the last pass of the cultimulcher. I'll then seed it with my brillion seeder about the middle to end of August. Seeding it at this time lets the seed germinate and start growing. About the time the first frost hits, the grass is a few inches tall and the weeds are just starting to show up. The nice thing is, the frost will kill out the weeds and next spring I'll have a pretty good stand of clean hay.

A couple of things I've noticed are that seeding it like this will tend to keep the soil from eroding during the spring melt and rains. The down side is that I don't want to try and get on the field too early since it hasn't had a chance to completely settle and get hard like it will later in the year (nothing quite as bad as putting ruts in a freshly replanted hay field).

Hope this helps and good luck.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

So do you still put a cover crop in JOSH IN WNY? Or have you a good luck w/ out a cover crop as long as you get it in early enought that it gets established. I really don't want to plow it up but at the same time im tired of bouncin off the seat and tractor sounds like it's following apart when i hit some of these spots lol. Thanks guys


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## Josh in WNY

whitmerlegacyfarm said:


> So do you still put a cover crop in JOSH IN WNY? Or have you a good luck w/ out a cover crop as long as you get it in early enought that it gets established. I really don't want to plow it up but at the same time im tired of bouncin off the seat and tractor sounds like it's following apart when i hit some of these spots lol. Thanks guys


No, I don't use a cover crop for fall seeding. You may get a few weeds in it the first year, but you just need to get them mowed before they go to seed.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Ok so i plowed a small section up, what it the idea behind plowing as far as when it's ok to go over and disc it up? I'm thinking it's just a matter of giving it a few days for the soil to dry out a little and for the grass clumps to die and dry up am i correct?


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## Vol

The grass probably wont die and dry up that is near the surface, but when you disc it will help it about drying up the plants. You dont want your soil to get too dry this time of year as then you have more clods. Check it daily and when it reaches the stage of crumbling when you pick it up and squeeze it, then its ready to disc.

Regards, Mike


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Would you guys recommend putting down a fertilizer and what type of fertilizer? Is it better to put it out before or after seeding? I have access to liquid manure but probably would not get the liquid manure put on till early fall or spring, would that hurt my new seeding if have liquid manure spread on?


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## slowzuki

Bigger issue here is a liquid manure tanker is heavy, can't get on in the spring till the field is quite dry.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

Last spring when they did it wasn't to bad at all i think we got on it late feb or realy early march.


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## aawhite

We always had good luck with an offset disk to tear up sod. Then disk (usually twice) then sweep with a fuerst harrow, seed, then roll with a cultimulcher (teeth up).

We switched from oats to triticale, seemed to make better feed and less winter kill.

We occassionally would just disk twice and then seed, but the stands were never as good.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

I disc the field tonight twice, i'm only using a small 6 ft 2 gang disc. Going to let the sod clumps dry out a little more and hit it again in a few days, still very rough, and then i'm awaiting my lime to be delivered and spread before i seed.

Does it hurt to disc the lime once they spread it? I figured i may have to get read of there tire tracts possibly not sure, all new to me.


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## Josh in WNY

I ususally disc or cultimulch the lime and fertilizer in. I think it helps get it incorporated in to the soil a little quicker and there is less chance of it just running off if you get a big rain.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm

What type of fertilizer do you sll recommend to put down before seeding? Im doin lime per mmy soil sample and my P&K were above optimal. Im no tilling in Orchard grass.


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## Josh in WNY

Sounds like you have soil test results, so I would take them down to the place you are going to get your fertilizer and talk to them about your needs. They should have a pretty good idea of what you should put on. The other option would be your extention agent. I generally go with what my dad recomends as he actually went to school for agriculture and has a lot more experience when it comes to the fertilizer and spray side of things.

If I didn't have a soil test, I would just use a general 10-10-10 or something like that and go light on the rate. I figure this will give a little boost to the new seeding and I can always fertilize later once I do get the soil tested.


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