# Tedding alfalfa



## bullet81 (Jun 7, 2010)

I am from central california and I do not even know what a tedder looks like other than pictures. I was just wanting a little information from you guys that ted alfalfa. No body, as far as I know uses a tedder in our area. I have been kinda curious on how they work and what kind of conditions people use them in? I was wondering if I could use it perhaps in the spring and the fall where we start getting cooler tempertures and gets harder to dry the hay out. Just looking for some ideas and maybe somebody might have some suggestions for me.

 Thanks


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The purpose of tedding hay is to spread the windrow out over as much surface area as possible to allow air flow through the crop. More air = faster drying. Tedding also randomizes the way the hay lays--some stems will be crossing others as opposed to the stems laying more or less parallel after mowing. Tedding also gets the crop up off of the ground, again, allowing more airflow through the crop.

Here, near St. Louis, I seldom get below 60% humidity, so drying takes longer. Under ideal condiitons, I would mow my alfalfa starting at about 3-4PM and finshing about 8-9PM, when the alfalfa is at its lowest transpiration cycle.

If there is no rain in the near-term forecast, I would not ted in order to preserve color. If there is, I would try to ted within 12-16 hours to prevent leaf shatter. For grass hay, I like to wait 24 hrs.

The trade-off: For me, tedding gains 12-24 hrs drying time (Sometimes more), at the cost of losing color due to sun bleaching. For the most part, I have not seen or heard anything negative about feed value when tedding.

When selling to cattle people, color isn't that important, RFV is; when selling to horse people, color is everything, most of them don't know how to spell RFV.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

The major reason you have not seen a tedder in California is with your climate you do not NEED the faster drying. 
If you are far enough north where the sun is not as intense, using a tedder to expose more of the hay to the direct rays of the sun is of little value. This is where the humidity and air movement is important, and a wide swath helps here also. 
The mayor reason for a wide swath, and a tedder produces a wide swath, is to keep the stomata on the leaves open until dark. As long as those stomata are open moisture pours out of the plant. Hay inside the windrow is in the dark and the stomata close. Plus the sunshine directly on the down crop heats the internal moisture, raises the vapor pressure, and the steam exits the crop. 
If you are where the humidity is in the 20% range and not consistently above 50% and the wind blows you will not need a wide swath. If fact it may be a disadvantage, because then you have to rake the hay into a windrow to bale, and that same wind will move that fluffy windrow off to the nearest fence line. This the reason the Western Irrigated States can consistently put up hay that is a pretty green. The color that sells so well to the uninitiated buyers. 
Livestock goby smell, taste, & feel and don't see the green color. The person with the check book only looks at the color.

A full width swath of unconditioned hay will cure as fast or faster than a conditioned hay dropped in a windrow will cure. Again a wide swath is not an asset in an arid climate.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

I haven't been brave enough to try the tedder on alfalfa. It would probably work okay as long as you hit the windrow right away. We usually put the tedder in the field as soon as the swathers get a big enough head start that tedder won't be waiting. The wetter the hay, the better uniformity and more complete the tedding effect. We primarily use ours for Orchard and second cutting Timothy. It does work well but it is a violent process.

If you are getting heavy dew then you might get away with raking it up without too much leaf loss. You can slow the tedder RPM down and play with a faster groundspeed but I'm not ready to try it yet. A super conditioner would probably be a better route and larger width swath would be my recommendation. I would be afraid of losing leaves and losing test.

Where are you located in Cali?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

We ted all the time the next morning while we have a dew left, have found if the dew is gone before 10 or so in the morning, tedding is pointless. Have found the opposite to be true with alfalfa, usually get the best spread and fluffiest job done if we wait till the morning after to ted.

Agree on the super conditioner rolls, once it quit raining here and the ground had a chance to dry out, I didn't ted the rest of the summer and found the hay to dry out just as fast or faster than I could get it dry last year with stock rollers and tedding.


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## mrjata (Dec 14, 2010)

I use a tedder all the time in NW Missouri. I could not do without it. If you need extra drying, this is your ticket. If the hay is heavy and you need it to dry more even, this is your ticket. If you need to pull more than one or two rows togather, you need a rake.

NH has the best rake/tedder on the market. I love mine, get a brochure or look it up o the web. I think it is a 254? You can rake or ted with it. Really a nice piece but you know NH, you better be able to repair their welds.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

haystax does not need to use a tedder. Not in an arid climate. Maybe for rained on hay, or when the humidity stays up in the 50% range or higher, and how often is that?

mlappin & mrjata can use the help.

There are numerous times and conditions that a tedder is used, and a few are effective.

The greatest advantage of a tedder is to dry the hay down below 48% moisture before dark. If you can do this you eliminate respiration overnight. Respiration is the unseen thief of yield and quality. 
Where the air is dry enough the hay will dry down in a windrow saving a lot of time and effort.

For best effect use the tedder right behind the mower conditioner. Otherwise when it is damp enough to rake it will be ok to run a tedder. When the humidity is over 90% is the key.

New Holland has an add on attachment on it's MoCo machines that will spread the hay out over 100% of the ground and save the use of a tedder that first day.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> haystax does not need to use a tedder. Not in an arid climate. Maybe for rained on hay, or when the humidity stays up in the 50% range or higher, and how often is that?
> 
> mlappin & mrjata can use the help.
> 
> ...


Alfalfa or Grass??

We use the tedder because contrary to popular thought, Nevada isn't all like Las Vegas. In late fall, humidity and heavy dew make it difficult to dry hay completely. The tedder works on grass but I would like to hear feedback on alfalfa as the OP asked for.

Anyone use on dairy quality alfalfa without destroying all the leaves?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

haystax said:


> Alfalfa or Grass??
> 
> We use the tedder because contrary to popular thought, Nevada isn't all like Las Vegas. In late fall, humidity and heavy dew make it difficult to dry hay completely. The tedder works on grass but I would like to hear feedback on alfalfa as the OP asked for.
> 
> Anyone use on dairy quality alfalfa without destroying all the leaves?


You can, it needs to be either tedded directly behind the mower while still green or I prefer to wait till teh next morning while the dew is still on.

I sell strictly on the looks of the hay, so tedding the next morning works fine for me, however I can see if it's sold by test then getting it tedded right after mowing so respiration stops asap would be the preferable way to go.

I'll agree as well, tedding is a violent process. I think you will lose more leaves at 16% with hay that's been tedded compared to hay at 16% that hasn't been tedded.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Tedding is indeed a violent process if you want it to be. Run a tedder at less than 350 PTO rpm and if the next morning when there is a dew on the ground.

I only run the tedder at 540 PTO rpms for rained on hay, and during the hottest and dryest part of the day, when I want to knock as many leaves off as possible. Then round bale the sticks to get them off the field. Store them in a wash where I want to slow the flow of water.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> The greatest advantage of a tedder is to dry the hay down below 48% moisture before dark. If you can do this you eliminate respiration overnight. Respiration is the unseen thief of yield and quality.
> Where the air is dry enough the hay will dry down in a windrow saving a lot of time and effort.
> 
> For best effect use the tedder right behind the mower conditioner. Otherwise when it is damp enough to rake it will be ok to run a tedder. When the humidity is over 90% is the key.
> ...


My understanding of plant respiration is that a plant sucks in water overnight and "breathes" it out during the day. From things I've read, a plant has it's lowest moisture content in the late afternoon/early evening. Under normal conditions, the stomata in alfalfa are fully open 2-6 hours after daylight and close around sunset, causing the plant to have the lowest water content in the late afternoon. However, this behavior can vary based on other conditions where the stomata are closed during mid-day.

This link has a good explanation of how a plant breathes and how the stomata work:

The behavior of stomata - Google Books

When possible, I try to mow in the late afternoon under the idea that the plant has the lowest moisture content at that time and that I can get 12 hours of drying time without sun-bleaching. However, Mother Nature doesn't always allow me to do that!

I try to ted alfalfa 12 hours after mowing, grass 24 hours. My relative humidity seldom gets below 60%.

I went looking for the attachment you referenced for NH moco's and couldn't find anything--Could you tell me more about that? Thanks.

Ralph


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, I think Haywilson was talking about the wide thin fin that NH sells for it's discbines. I have not seen them for mower conditioners but may be wrong. I think you can google it and see it being installed. Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks Hayman.

After looking at this video, YouTube - NewHollandNA's Channel, I'm rethinking my mowing strategy.

This was an option introduced after I bought my 7230. I already set it at maximum width which, according to NH is 80% and allows me to straddle the swath. I don't like the idea of my tractor tires mashing down part of my swath into the ground--seems to me that part would dry real slow.

Now you got me thinking....(Ouch--my head hurts!)

Ralph


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Ralph, Thanks for that link. Had not seen that before. That is exactly why I ted my hay right behind the mower. Wish I could keep from running over my hay but I have not actually seen where it knocks any leaves off if I ted it right away. The site I was referring you to shows the installation of the wide thin fin. Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Mike:

I wasn't thinking of knocking the leaves off as much as packing the hay under the wheels into the ground, especially if the ground was a little soft. I did find the installation video you referenced and installation of the fins seems pretty straigtht forward. As a matter of fact, I was up at my machine shed a little while ago and looked at my 7230. I think I could come pretty close to 100% just by taking the swath guides off.

Anybody have opinions of the drying differences between a a wide swath and a narrow/tall swath? Betyter drying one way vs sun bleaching?

Ralph


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey RJ, the research we are seeing in the upper Midwest is that cutting in the morning saves at least a half to full day of drying. Stomata once closed after cutting never re-open. If you are cutting in the evening like you are you are bound to reduce the plant water vapor loss through the stomata and only rely on incident solar radiation to bake the plant. Alot of my alalfa is baled in the end of the 2nd day here with out using a tedder. I used to cut late afternoon and at night and it always cost me at least an extra day. Dan Undersander had a good article regarding this in one of the Hay and Forage Growers.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

The consensus was that driving with one tire on the swath was still better then narrowing up the windrow. Again, this was a Dan Undersander presentation he gave at on of our Michigan Forage Councils, Forage Technology Conference we have every winter. Theory, start cutting mid morning once the stomata are open, and drop in as wide of a swath as possible. Once sun sets the stomata close and will not provide any more plant respiration and I don't remember the exact number but seems it was about 50 % drying the first day just from the stomata.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Anybody have opinions of the drying differences between a a wide swath and a narrow/tall swath? Betyter drying one way vs sun bleaching?
> 
> Ralph


That all depends on your other conditions at the time of mowing. This year when the ground was very wet to the point of almost being saturated, we would make a narrower swath so more ground was exposed between the rows. This allows at least some of the ground a chance to dry before being covered with hay during tedding.

There is a catch 22 of course, usually when our ground is getting that wet, the humidity is high to very high with little or now wind. For the most part when we are in that wet of a weather pattern too good a breeze usually means it's going to rain again very shortly. Another problem as well is usually we have enough clouds that we won't get a 100% sunshine for the day either.

One problem I'm fighting now is that if I lay the row out as wide as possible when I rake some of it doesn't get turned with my v rake. If I bring the back of the rake close enough together to rake all the hay then I leave a tall narrow row that is undesirable for round baling. I either need to experiment a bit and see if I can narrow my rows up some and still get adequate drying while being to turn it all, or add two more wheels to the center so I have four center kicker wheels.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

as already stated there are a lot of variables in making dry hay, moisture in the ground when the crop is mowed effects the width of windrow that I leave. If the ground is dry I lay it out as wide as I can then ted it the next morning or two if needed while the dew is on. Then I will rake shortly before the baler.
If the ground is wet I leave a narrow swath to allow the wet ground between the swaths to dry, then rake the hay over on to the dry strips the next day. After this I will ted the hay out in the morning while the dew is on to conserve leaves. Later in the day usually the hay will be fit to bale, so I will rake it in to the final windrows and wait for conditions to give the green light to bale. Depending on the weather outlook I'll apply acid to the hay if rain is coming and the crop is still around 20% moisture. After 20% I take a chance on the rain because of the cost of the preservative.
To me my tedder is a very valuable tool to have, second only to hay preservatives. When it comes to weather an hour or two can mean the difference between good hay and blowing it back over the Field with the harvester resulting in a total loss...


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

mlappin said:


> That all depends on your other conditions at the time of mowing. This year when the ground was very wet to the point of almost being saturated, we would make a narrower swath so more ground was exposed between the rows. This allows at least some of the ground a chance to dry before being covered with hay during tedding.
> 
> There is a catch 22 of course, usually when our ground is getting that wet, the humidity is high to very high with little or now wind. For the most part when we are in that wet of a weather pattern too good a breeze usually means it's going to rain again very shortly. Another problem as well is usually we have enough clouds that we won't get a 100% sunshine for the day either.
> 
> One problem I'm fighting now is that if I lay the row out as wide as possible when I rake some of it doesn't get turned with my v rake. If I bring the back of the rake close enough together to rake all the hay then I leave a tall narrow row that is undesirable for round baling. I either need to experiment a bit and see if I can narrow my rows up some and still get adequate drying while being to turn it all, or add two more wheels to the center so I have four center kicker wheels.


Marty, Was wondering why your rake does not kick over all of the hay. The wheels on my rakes are all adjustable to move along the contour of the land. Mine also are adjustable to make a windrow wide enough so that I don't have to move side to side in order to bale. Then anyone can make a nice looking bale. Mike


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