# Wet Ground: Return on Investment



## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

I had this discussion the other day with a "wetland expert" and I am not sure I agree with him.

We were discussing the merits and pitfalls of farming wet ground. Not wetland per se, but wet ground. I have always been told that when you take wet ground that is in forest and convert it to fields, it dries out. That is because you remove the shade from the soil as well as allowing the wind to hit the ground causing a nice evaporation effect. The soil engineer disagreed, saying that trees are 60 feet high and suck the water out of the soil far better than short grass or corn ever could. He went so far as to say the water table actually rises when a clear cut is made.

Okay, I am not dumb, I can see that, but here is where I have a problem. A farmer does not stop there. To make a forest productive, it must be cleared of stumps and the ground graded. I am no soil expert, but to me, it is through this grading that you get the water to move *OVER* the soil. My fields average about 6% so water is migrating, and with a compaction, cover crop or field grass ground field, there is water run off. This is far different then a forest setting where you have dips, bumps, stumps, roots and rocks impeding water flow over the soil.

The interesting thing was, he kept telling me that it was not worth the time to convert wet forest ground back into farm ground, but some of our most productive ground is wet ground. Again, we are not talking wetland here, but just wet ground. When I said that, he agreed, he just said it was the problem of getting equipment over the wet ground that was the issue.

So what say the experts...*Haytalkers*, because I trust you guys over anyone! As my Grandfather always said, "those that can do, those that can't...teach!"


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Here wet ground is hard ground, adding tile makes a world of difference even in a drought year.

Depends just how wet your ground is gonna stay once the trees are removed, if tile needs added then it just may not be worth it.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

We had some wet ground next to a creek. It had reed canary on it, but dad just bushhogged it once a year. I started cutting it more often. Keeping the plant actively growing helped suck water out of the ground. The shorter grass also allowed the sun to get to the ground and dry things out. Over the course of 2-3 years the ground dried out significantly. The ground makes great grazing and stays productive all year.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Iam by no means an expert. But here its always wetter where there are trees. In dry years the pastures will be brown but in the trees the grass is green. Between the shade and less wind things dont dry as fast. Also the trees catch a lot of dew every morning. Every leaf catches at least one drop. Far more leaves in a tree area than in an open area.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I'd say clear it and it should drty out.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Many questions are best answered by starting with "it depends." This is the most "it depends" question I've heard in a long time.

I once read that big redwood trees create 50hp of water transfer force (billions of cells working together) to get the hundreds of gallons of water they transpire per day, being that they need to pump over 350 feet of head pressure.

Another alternative is to investigate growing crops that need wet feet. My limited experience tells me wet ground is not good for hay, in that, it needs to dry after being cut. Cut hay lying on wet ground is not a good idea in my opinion.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hugh said:


> Another alternative is to investigate growing crops that need wet feet. My limited experience tells me wet ground is not good for hay, in that, it needs to dry after being cut. Cut hay lying on wet ground is not a good idea in my opinion.


I can agree with that....wet ground is so easily compacted and just plain difficult for farming....but if your wet ground turns out kind of like what PA Mike spoke about then it could be worth the bother.

I guess it just depends. 

Regards, Mike


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

When I worked for Davey Tree we had a line that had standing water about knee deep. The line was close to a long drive way that went to a business it was also wooded. We started that circuit in the early spring, and left that spot with the standing water till the very end hoping it would dry out, it didn't. We decided to wade the water and cut everything in the right of way. This occurred in the middle of August. A week later all the water was gone...... So I know it isn't farming but it seems to me cutting the trees and letting the sun and wind in helped dry up the water..


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

This will be an interesting piece of land to clear.

It consists of three spots, 8 acres to the east that was a field from 1800 when it was cleared, until 1920 when it grew back to trees. Then a 10 acre piece of wetland in the middle. Then a 10 acre piece that is on a slope to the west. The latter piece, the western piece, has never been cleared...ever. The soil scientist from the USDA told me that because the one road I put through the woodlot is red in color. That is from where the iron in the soil has started to rust now that it has been overturned and exposed to air.

They say the settlers were shocked when the first turned the soil over and were getting grass over their heads, a shock since the soil in England was so depleted. A book on this farm by my Uncle in 1838 said they were never fully able to clear all this farm and the lack of rock walls proves it.

The only wood I have ever known to come off this piece of land was in 1994 when I cut 20 cords of hardwood. Because it is so hard to get to I am pretty sure my Grandfather, great-grandfather and before could not log it due to the great distance from the farmstead, and in trying to navigate the wetland in between. I had the same problem. I bulldozed a road through the wetland in 1994, but to traverse it, it had to be a cold winter to freeze the ground, and have no snow since my little tractor could not wade through a lot of snow. For those reasons I only logged it once.

It will be interesting to see how it does. A massive undertaking for sure. Clearing land is not an easy task, then or now!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Clearing land can be a massive undertaking and a very expensive one too.

Regards, Mike


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

100 years ago, a stick of dynamite under the stump and a well fed Clydesdale to pull the stump out was a good way to do it.


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Vol said:


> I can agree with that....wet ground is so easily compacted and just plain difficult for farming....but if your wet ground turns out kind of like what PA Mike spoke about then it could be worth the bother.
> 
> I guess it just depends.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Reminds me of the old joke; "How does a 90 year old woman go to the bathroom? It Depends."


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Our home Farm is 425 Acres we have 15 Acres of Woodland designated we have commercially harvested the trees off of it twice in my life and we don't do anything special to maintain it it maintains itself. There is 9 Acres on the back corner of the farm that has active Springs some years you can make hay off of it in August we're Graze in late summer some years a whole year goes by iCal couldn't walk across it or a tractor couldn't drive across it too wet. We call that swamp land. Over the years I have seen it tried to convert itself to Woodland but when a tree starts growing they get some height and then they fall over because the roots are in such wet ground. It would be a massive undertaking to clear land and if that land would not be very high productively and I'm sure it would not pay


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