# Turning hayfields under Chisel plow on sod?



## freedomfarm (Jul 8, 2010)

We have grown weary of the fickle hay market and fromnow on will only bale for our own needs. Planting the rest in corn & soybean. It's also time we crawled out of the cave and got a chisel plow. We figure we need to moldboard plow the sod fields first, but after that we want to chisel plow the crop after crop fields. Looks like a straight disc chisel will do good, BUT how big of plow can a White 2-135 4WD tractor handle with ease (135 HP)? Also have a Kubota M9000 4WD (90 eng H.P.)? I have heard that the shank size makes abig difference. What's a good common, somewhat affordable make & model? 
Thanks much, Steve


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Can't tell you about brands, but we used to pull a 15 foot, 15 shank chisel with a 4-150 White. A 2255 Oliver would also pull it, both were supposed to be 150HP. I know for a fact the 2255 put out 172hp on the dyno. They were afraid to take the 4-150 much past 180hp on the dyno because they only had the 540 pto shaft in it and were afraid of blowing the shaft apart. Pull a 25' White chisel plow with the shanks on 15" centers with a 4880 Massey Ferguson turned up to 375hp. Also pull a 25 field cultivator behind the chisel plow in the spring.

Depends a lot on your ground, on our heavy gumbo before we pattern tiled the whole field, 50hp per 5 foot of chisel plow was minimun. I've had other ground where the 25' chisel was all the 375hp tractor wanted dragging it up several long hills on some compacted abused ground I picked up.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Forgot to add this, I think the neighbor pulls a 12' chisel with his 2-135. You also know those Continentals can put out up to 200hp no problem if the pump has been played with. The neighbor also farms lighter soil so again, going to depend a lot on _your_ ground.

We're going to put our 25' chisel and 26' foot disk up for sale this spring and going to replace the both of em with either a 24' or 30' Turbo Till, have gone to 100% no till the last three years or so and am tired of mowing around the both of em.

Some of the best corn crops we have ever had was after burning a hayfield down then no-tilling. Already too late now, but best results on burn down is achieved if the hay can be sprayed in the fall after it has 4-6 inches of regrowth after being made for the last time that season, then come back in the spring and burn it down again to eliminate any green. We've had good luck using a tank mix of 28% uan mixed at a 5% rate with water then using a mix of 2-4d and generic roundup.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

Has notill crossed your mind? If you have light ground that isn't compacted you should get a good response. This means that you will have to sidedress your N later, so it means one more trip later on... just a thought


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You don't _have_ to side dress later.

Several guys around here apply their anhydrous early in the spring before planting and run at a 30 degree angle to how their going to plant it. Their theory is the knives from the applicator open the ground up a little and help with drying out and warming up.

Personally we are talking about side dressing anhydrous on the heavier ground and using 28 or 32 on the lighter ground as most liquid applicators don't disturb the ground near as much as an applicator knife.


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## freedomfarm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for the info . . . we have clay loam (northeast Ohio). Our co-op is talking about some coating or treatment to the fertilizer that will let you put all necessary N out at planting and will last the season and be there when the plant wants it. No till really didn't "take" off in our area. Every one chisels and finishes. Until we get going and some newer tools we'll be: moldboard, disc, & cultimulching the sod, previous crop fields we usually can disc & cultimulch. We are hoping with a chisel plow we can get to where we chisel, cultimulch and plant on the same day. That would be a milestone for us.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

No till really hasn't taken off in our area till five years or so ago. We have no tilled all the lighter soils in town for at least 10 years. For 20 years the corn was always no tilled in as we couldn't handle the corn stubble when planting or cutting beans so a disk and packer was ran over the stalks on the sand ground. Now even our Brookston and Crosier soils are 100% no till. On some of our clays if over finished or a culti mulcher is used, a crust can develop that not even a corn plant can push up thru.

We never thought no till would work on our heavier soils but after last springs monsoon we still managed to get done ahead of some guys that were still using tillage. The first several years are rough, but after the third or fourth year or so you'll notice reduced ponding for starters.

We do have one big advantage over some that have tried no till and gave it up. We own a wheel trencher and try to drop at least a few maxi coils of tile in a year. While that may sound impressive, the guy that had it pretty much skipped any maintenance on it the last several years he ran it. Worked on it for three straight days before we could even get it loaded. Got it home and it spent another week and a half in the shop before it ever laid a foot of tile. Since then it has more than paid for itself. The heaviest clays on the home farm has been pattern tiled on 40 foot centers.


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## cattleranch (Dec 17, 2010)

Just a thought...We have skipped the plowing process and just use a 14 ft Steiger offset disc. We pulled it with a JD 4450 4wd and now pull it with a MF 7465 4wd; the Massey seems to handle it a lot better than the 4450. It works surprisingly well even in sod, but that also could be because it is so doggone heavy. After about 2 passes with it we switch to a tandem disc then put a blanket harrow behind it. We then roll it before drilling. Most of the stuff we are turning over hasn't been turned over in 40 years or has never been turned over. Also we have had really good success in our valley with no tilling alfalfa.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Depends on what the soil types are on how well a off set disc will work. To be honest they'll work on any soil, but on some soils they create a real compaction problem.

Offsets used to be the rage around here, only ones I see now are used in construction to loosen soil up before the pan scraper comes along.


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## freedomfarm (Jul 8, 2010)

Good Stuff guys . . . thanks again!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Old rule of thumb here was 10hp per foot. We pulled a 13ft IH chisel (13 shanks they are twisted - maybe 3 inch?) with a JD4430 (125hp) for years. The 4640 and the 4455 play with it. You're going to either need 4wd or duals.... sorta sounds like the white is a 4wd? I know a fella that's in NE ohio.... near Dorset, all the ground in that area is worked, and 125hp will not be able to pull a 3ft chisel. 10-11 tops - Depnds on the ground, the shanks you have on, the depth you want to pull it, and the speed with which you want to pull it. You're going to chop the corn stalks.

Rodney


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not sure about other models, but White suggests running no slower than 5 mph. Any slower than that and you don't get the shattering effect.


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