# Vicon km281 mower help



## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Hi I am Looking for some input on this mower I just purschased. Does anyone use one still? Do they Vibrate alot when running? Pro ,cons and machine weakness?

Here is a link to my video on km281 cutter bar and rollers.. note any concerns seen!!






Thanks


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I had a km321 until a few years ago. I owned three additional parts machines too and eventually built a second mower out of that pile of junk so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge of them.

You shouldn't expect excessive vibration. If you have that, something is definitely wrong.

Pros: simple, cheap. Swivel driveline way ahead of other comparably aged machines.

Cons: prone to structural cracks. Worst conditioning roll design in history. Weird metric tire size. Roll drive gearbox has tendency to get water in despite your best efforts to stop it. Cutterbar must be entirely disassembled to replace any bearings.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Ok, I just watched your video. Your rolls look surprisingly good compared to most of those machines. 
Regarding the wobbly discs. DO NOT MOW WITH THIS MOWER! You need to remove the four "cap screws" that hold each one on and determine whether the wobble is in the the hub (they can get loose on the shaft) or if it's in the bearing. If it's in the bearings, I'd be evaluating how much time and money I wanted to spend on it. (Admittedly, mostly time, but a heck of a lot of it) If it's just worn hubs, you're in luck. They're easy to change and I have some good used ones in a box here that I'd love to sell 

Don't even worry about the oil leak until you determine the root of your wobble problem.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Oh, also, welcome to Haytalk. 
Is that Flemington, NJ in your profile?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If you have rocks the rolls are going to be toast shortly. They cut very good with the three blades, but as was stated earlier before you do anything else find out what is wrong with the bar.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

I would of replied sooner but I did not get any notifications ! I think I fixed that by follow this topic button.

I have very flat small tight fields . No rocks that i have noticed.. I scapled the fields with my haybine this year! Small field and seeing the turning raduis on this unit sold me! HA

Looking at the km281 I thought the upper roller looked newer. different in color than lower. Upper is gray ,lower is black. I paid 900 for mower.. I dont mind putting some time or money into it if its worth it. I have been buying beat up haybines for that price that last a few years and all have bad rollers..

So far I know it possible could use the drive belt ,found large cracks in it,no swing cylinder, missing stand,both side bushing for wheels are worn out, tires leaning in, leaky hoses and today found the hydraulic is milky, My tractor is a Hydro 84 .. I am leery to connect and containate my hydro, Trying to point out everything I see. Bought a service/repair manual! Came with parts and operater ones,

My first step is to remove the two loose disc's by 4 screws, and check where play is coming from. Another concern is cutter bar was the gear back lash?? did it seem normal?

How can I jack this unit up off ground so i can work on it? My haybine had a manual lock!

Yes that is correct flemington NJ,Are you close?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The gear lash doesn't seem bad to me. The best way to determine just how much slop is in it is to turn the end disc and see how much it turns until the disc on the opposite end turns. It's probably fine.

Drive belts cost over half of what your mower did. If it's still working, run it. If it the snaps the only bad thing that will happen is you'll be done mowing for the day.

The lift cylinders should have valves on them to lock the hydraulics in the raised position. If you don't trust them, use blocks or jack stands.

Bad haybine rolls are better than bad Vicon rolls. If a chunk of a haybine roll comes off, you're left with a static blank spot. If (when) one of the Vicon segments breaks, it allows the segments next to it to slide back and forth. If this happens and you don't remedy it promptly, a segment will slide to a spot that it is no longer mating with the other roll and they will be crushed to pieces. And then even more of them start sliding around. You see where this is heading...

I have some stands laying around and wheels but I think the wheel hubs are long gone. Have a bucket of cutterbar gears and other stuff too. I'm in central PA.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

I think you are about 2.5 hours from me.I understand what you are saying on the rollers.The guys gave me two of the metal clamp on ones and and few extra blades.. I will try to get the disc's off tomorrow or sat after work to inspect..If the cutter bar is not in good shape then its not worth fixing? I priced out the large bearing under there it about 100 buck new if I correctly found the right one on line. I was thinking even if I sunk in the cost of the machine i was ahead of the game? Maybe I am looking at it wrong? I am not expecting to have segment issues!! LMAO. Overall If I get 3 years out and then it looses the rollers I am ok with that. I am constantly fixing haybine.

Last night i did notice on the second head back the blade was very close to the metal and can see marks from hitting. it is not loose though like the other ones.. I can post pic later when I get home from work.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Update : took off hubs made a few video and took some pictures











What does this looseness mean ? Gear and hub replacement? One of them appeared to be welded on top!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Little hard to see in your video but it looks like the hub is loose on the shaft. If you lift the hub off entirely, can you wobble the shaft or is it still solid? If your shaft doesn't wobble, your bearing should be fine. Next thing to do would be check the shaft for wear to see if all of the wear is in the hub or if any is into the shaft.

Regarding your knife coming close to the bar, the disc is probably bent down a bit in that corner or the knife bolt hole is distorted and not allowing the knife to be fully drawn up. Cheap solution: bend knife up.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes the hub is loose on shaft I was unable to pull it off. There is no play in gear. But i have a feeling the area where hub rides is bad I can see the dowl pin hole on one appears large , I will tap off hub gentle to inspect. I have hosted some pictures here..

http://s125.photobucket.com/user/borntworide/library/Vicon%20Km281?sort=3&page=1

i put a level across the bar and some have a good space under level. Or the other ones could be bent up.

One clear picture on knife bolt hitting bar.

What seals the gear lube in ? I see a leaking one area..

Lots of random picture ,missing bolts in bar back side

Labeling pictures now, let me know if not open to public an can not view

Update I just got hub off will up load video and pictures shortly


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The hubs wear before the shafts. You might luck out!


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Here Is the gear/hub play, no side to side just up and down.. none of the other ones move up and down.. I can't see the hub locking it from having that type of play.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=qon72UKvGnY&video_referrer=watch

some pictures of hub and gear top.



What is the washer? a cap or spacer?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I feel like there should be a snap ring preventing that vertical movement. Check your parts diagram.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

The part numbers are very blurry but the red arrow is a o ring and there are two spacer by the red circle. possible worn out? does not say if metal or plastic..



I was thinking that maybe the steel was worn away letting gear move up and down...What is my next step?

Did you look and any of the other pictures for over all machine worth?

snap ring on this one , but not on other one???


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If I remember right, The top bearing is held in the housing by dimpling the outer diameter of the top collar formed on the cutterbar bearing housing. The top bearing should be a tight fit on the shaft. The "B" you have circled is actually a plastic snapring. The other spacer is metal and no they are not worn out. On one of the disc positions there is a breather hole in the housing and this snap ring needs to cover that hole so oil does not escape. I think it is the third disc from the drawbar side. The lower bearing is a double row spherical bearing and even though it is a tight fit in the housing it can separate the top row of ball bearings from the lower row of ball bearings and move up and down. When the hub is pinned on there should not be any up and down movement.

Don't try and torch the top bearing, you'll just ruin everything under it. I have pulled the top bearings by taking three carriage bolts and grinding the head so they could be fitted into the top bearing after the seal and cage are removed from the bearing. You will need to grind the carriage bolt head so on two parallel sides the head is no wider than the bolt. On the other two sides you will grind them down enough so when you insert the narrow end of the carriage bolt into the top bearing you can turn the bolts 90 degrees so the head that is remaining on the carriage bolts is locked in the inner and outer grooves of the bearing. I used a three jaw puller with jaws that were notched for bolts.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

I follow the bearing removal and carriage bolt to aid in it. I will check to see if the bearing looks dimpled on either loose one. 
My question is how will I know if lower double row bearing has failed or separated?

Also I do have a oil leak on the third one from right side of machine. When standing behind. Is there any other gaskets or seals in the cutter bar when assembling?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It is not the bearing which is dimpled, it is the top of the bearing housing with the dimples. The dimples keep the bearing from coming back up out of the housing. I think there are three around to outer diameter of the housing. You will need to tap the dimples back so the bearing can come out.

Not vary likely that the lower bearing is out. If it was the cutterbar would probably be locked up.

Silicone is what seals the two halves of the cutter bar together.

It was not unusual to see oil around the disc with the breather hole, as long as it was not running out.

Once you try and remove the bearing from the top, you are committed. Either the bearing will come out or you will split the bar to get it out.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

mike10 said:


> It was not unusual to see oil around the disc with the breather hole, as long as it was not running out.
> 
> Once you try and remove the bearing from the top, you are committed. Either the bearing will come out or you will split the bar to get it out.


Sorry I knew what you meant in my head but when I wrote came out wrong. LOL..

I am thinking of finding or removing a good hub and try it on the ones that wobble to see if its tight and play goes away. . If they wobble, gear is bad and cutter bar comes apart. Is there another repair to correct this other than replacing both parts? I can see the roll pin hole is very elonagted on one othe them.

Back side of hub is beat up maybe this is worn and causing movement..

Just for clarification on why to remove that bearing.If there is no side to side movement the upper bearing is good? I would be removing this bearing to check the parts underneath?

Sorry if some of this is redudant Just wanting to make sure i fully get it .


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

If the bearing does not wobble, leave it alone. There is nothing under the top bearing that will cause you a problem. The lower bearings do not cause any problem as long as there was oil in the bar. Since the lower bearing is a spherical type bearing it will wobble when the top bearing is worn out or removed. This is normal. If the shaft is worn, then you only have one option if you want to fix it and that is to split the bar.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

mike10 said:


> If the shaft is worn, then you only have one option if you want to fix it and that is to split the bar.


That is what I was thinking..... I can not use the machine in this condition . Removing the cutting bar from machine for a winter project indoors.

I am hoping this machine will last for a few years. Unless you guys see something I don't in video or pictures

Edit::I stumble across that the gehl 2230 and 2350 are very similar machines! Found other posts with good information!! Some have steel rollers.

Edit

@8350Hitech I saw one of your post that you put steel aftermarket rollers in . No vibration or extra noise? There is a guy selling them in WV for $3000 a set with core return.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Figured i would update!

I have the bar out all apart in a nice neat pile of mess!



I do have a question what blade is right and what one is left in picture?



I opted to replace all bearings in cutter bar after seeing catastrophic failure in a parts bar i picked up!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The shiny blade should rotate counter clockwise. I think that's what you're asking but in different terms.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes sort of when ordering they want to know right or left lol , i have 8 shiny ones and 10 black ones.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I want to say the shiny one would be a righty. You should order a few extra of each anyway, so if you guess wrong it shouldn't be a big deal.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Lol I was being cheap! whats a few extra bucks after spending a thousand on bearings.!! Another question i have one new red guard with a sticker on it from kvereland but the bar has 5 new dark gray ones on it.. is there an aftermarket place selling the gray one?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The grey ones were Vicon before the kvernland buyout.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Dam you are awesome! Any opinions on using vicon blades verse aftermarket? The guy at ACI dist says use only vicon they cut better..


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I can't really compare because I've never used an OEM blade


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Finally almost done with cutter bar just wanted to get an opinion on line up of turtles.

a small video to help!

http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/borntworide/Vicon%20Km281/IMG_2799.mp4



lmk if links dont work


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

You're correct.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

8350HiTech I know you said shine blades counter clockwise, i did that but i think i set it up with first drum going in wrong direction!

I have the cutter bar in , machine up an running , its not cutting the hay well at all!

Here is the cut! machine is leaving two or three path of uncut grass

http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/borntworide/Vicon%20Km281/EF07A087-DD34-472F-9868-014363E4C663.mp4



Question on blade installation do i have them on wrong? or in wrong spot. The arrow is facing up and not in direction of cutting.

http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/borntworide/Vicon%20Km281/A431B43B-5E21-4A74-8046-CD6551B2F5D4_1.mp4


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

We just covered this by phone but in case someone else is reading and learning, yes, the blades are on backwards.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have a KM281 in really good condition. It had been barn stored before I bought it.

I bought it cheap because the crimpers were shot.

Can I take the two shafts off and use it as a regular disc mower? If I try to cut fescue or bahia the stems wrap around the shafts.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tim/South said:


> I have a KM281 in really good condition. It had been barn stored before I bought it.
> I bought it cheap because the crimpers were shot.
> Can I take the two shafts off and use it as a regular disc mower? If I try to cut fescue or bahia the stems wrap around the shafts.


You'd be better off removing the top conditioning roll and keeping the bottom one in the mochine. It will help keep material moving through. Maybe weld some bar stock to that one if it still wraps. Or weld bars to the top and bottom and leave them both in.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Leak from side cover behind the thicker cover on left side, cracked from back side to front where green arrow is. is it hard or just time consuming to remove this side cover ?



Noise from bar .will post video when i get home


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> You'd be better off removing the top conditioning roll and keeping the bottom one in the mochine. It will help keep material moving through. Maybe weld some bar stock to that one if it still wraps. Or weld bars to the top and bottom and leave them both in.


Good idea. Thanks.

I had pondered the idea of trying to weld some type of flail device on the rolls. Welding some stock sounds even better.

Thanks Again.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Here is the video of the the machine running and noises!

http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/borntworide/Vicon%20Km281/IMG_2916.mp4

normal sound?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

born2ride said:


> Here is the video of the the machine running and noises!
> 
> http://vid125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/borntworide/Vicon%20Km281/IMG_2916.mp4
> 
> normal sound?


Sounds normal to me.....probably would have been good to throttle it at working speed so we could listen to that also.

Regards, Mike


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Here is one running and cutting, Don't mind the green short!! Lol


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

born2ride said:


> Here is one running and cutting, Don't mind the green short!! Lol


The noise sounds about right to me. The shorts, well, I tried to ignore them.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

i have been reading the operators manual, its says to make sure the hitch is 25" off ground and use chains for lateral movement, during my test cut it seem the machine is angled down , which point blades down.(Back is higher) should i just level the draw bar of discbine when cutting so blades are level to ground?? setting cut height is done by the two skids on back of discbine right now they are set position B and cut about 2.5 inches, I am thinking to set position D. i would like to be around 4.5 inches

Last question . The skids in back drag the ground all the time when cutting?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Not only does your manual suggest a height for the category pins, it should also list a max angle on the driveline, which I think is 15 degrees. You can change your bar tilt some by ignoring the pin height and working within the range provided by the 15 degrees allowance for driveline angle. In other words, you can level the tongue but only if it doesn't leave you with a pto that is beyond the allowed angle.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

And if your skids are routinely digging in your soft ground, I don't think you have a choice other than widening them. You might want to widen them and also heighten them in the process, helping your goal of higher stubble height.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks I am not sure on the 15 degrees of shaft angle that is something i will look more closely at it tonuight when i get home, what is optimal cutting height orchard grass?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

3.5"-4"

Regards, Mike


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

I was out mowing about 2 acres today using the IH hydro 84 it was running super hot with vicon! I never had issue with running hot before, tomorrow i am going to remove loader, front grill, and wash out radiator, its been awhile,

Any thought? is the vicon too much for tractor?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I briefly had an 84. I felt like a rake was too much for it  The discbine could be too much, especially on a hot day.


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Just kick me when I am down ! Lol I can't complain the 84 has been great to me close to 15 years now I have only changed oil and filters. But I never really worked it hard, it ran a 479 haybine , small rake and 14t baler . Here I have been thinking I just need to pick up a small tractor for rake and Tedder! Lol maybe I have that tractor already!

I could smell the hygaurd oil when it was hot!


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

Back to the Vicon.. Seems the machine does not float on one side, The right side of machine i can set the spring rate by moving the collar up or down. the left side does not matter how high the collar is the machine has no spring action, I have disconnect the line to piston, which rules out hydraulics causing it, the manual shows the spring and measurement but the picture is not clear looks like it is measuring the spring thickness? 19mm on left and 13 mm on right, also states left side will need more rate than right.

Its either a binding piston,wrong spring ,machine just to heavy or operator error!


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## 1187 (Aug 27, 2015)

Where did you get your manual and parts?


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## born2ride (Sep 1, 2014)

I bought originals off eBay from UK. Parts came from used machine, Some parts stil available from new from Kverneland, they have distributors depends where you are. What machine do you have? What are you looking for?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Something's bound up... looks like "Stuck down" judging by the amount of compression of the non-moving spring...

Could it be an oil leak past the lift seal into the telescoping part, essentially "hydraulically locking" it??

Need to talk to a dealer or someone with more experience on these things, or look at the manuals...

Later and best of luck! OL JR


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