# High moisture in Second cutting og



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I know someone just posted this somewhere, I think it was Larry, but I could not locate the thread. Baling 2 day hay with temps in 90s slight breeze but enough. Some crabgrass. Moisture on the BHT-2 was all over the place, hand held 14-14.5 consistently. Right where the moisture on the in line was going up I tested the bale in the chamber and felt the windrow at the pickup and it was fine. Dust coming up from the knotters. It was cut with impeller conditioning. had this happen once before, I think last august with second cutting and roll conditioning. Felt the bales on the wagon a day later and some had a slight damp feel but no heat. What gives? Both meters work fine in first cutting.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Did you get a lot of rain last week from the " hurricane"?
Just a WAG, but 2 days is pretty short and I'm assuming you got a lot of recent rain. 
My guess would be ground moisture.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

My experience, OG regrowth has an inner core that likes to remain wet. Why your testers disagree on readings I don't know.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Like Neil says stem moisture.In my experience hay that dries quickly the tester reads lower then it actually is because internal moisture.And hay that is bone dry and has dew moisture reads higher then it actually is as the moisture is higher on the outside of the stem.

A guy could do a microwave test to confirm it.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, food for thought


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Did you get a lot of rain last week from the " hurricane"?
> Just a WAG, but 2 days is pretty short and I'm assuming you got a lot of recent rain.
> My guess would be ground moisture.


Adequate but not excessive rain. Started to leave it another day but it felt good and the forecasts haven't been that great. Air drying on wagon, no heat this am. At least it isn't in a bundle on a box trailer


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Hayman,

You are not alone. I continually have issues putting up dry second cut. It feels dry and crispy, passes the twist test and will bale it at 10-12%. I will even go far as testing with several probes including setting the cab monitor to beep when its at 15%. Have the discbine rolls set as tight as they will go. It wont heat up after but a month later its musty! Just last week 3 days of low humidity and close to 90 degrees. Its in the barn checking it daily, going to crack open a bale next week and keep my fingers crossed.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Hayman,
> 
> You are not alone. I continually have issues putting up dry second cut. It feels dry and crispy, passes the twist test and will bale it at 10-12%. I will even go far as testing with several probes including setting the cab monitor to beep when its at 15%. Have the discbine rolls set as tight as they will go. It wont heat up after but a month later its musty! Just last week 3 days of low humidity and close to 90 degrees. Its in the barn checking it daily, going to crack open a bale next week and keep my fingers crossed.


Mine doesn't get musty, or at least so far when I have had this issue. Horses inhale it. I am just trying to figure it out. Couldn't use my new hayguard applicator as something was amiss with it


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Hayman,
> 
> You are not alone. I continually have issues putting up dry second cut. *It feels dry and crispy, passes the twist test and will bale it at 10-12%. * I will even go far as testing with several probes including setting the cab monitor to beep when its at 15%. Have the discbine rolls set as tight as they will go. It wont heat up after but a month later its musty! Just last week 3 days of low humidity and close to 90 degrees. Its in the barn checking it daily, going to crack open a bale next week and keep my fingers crossed.


Next time you deal with dry or drying OG that is second or third cut, in addition to the exercises listed, take some plants and pull them apart piece by piece. I bet you will find that in the whorl there is a nice wet green piece. It's kind of the same problem oats hay has where the stem nodes and grain heads will hold moisture much longer than the rest of the plant.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Some of the variability on the BH 2 might be how tight the bales were against the bale sides and sensor pads. IMHO there is a direct relationship with the bale density in the bale chamber vs the BH 2. I can't say I've ever had hay dust up if my BH 2 read 17 or less. I think in the end, that dry hay and dust you see coming off the baler - sometimes on my JD 348 it looks like it's on fire smoke, gives me an added level of comfort as IMHO any higher moisture hay might sweat it's moisture into the dry hay and even out the moisture with no dust. I'm a believer in the Krone impellers. Haven't tried them on clover - but it use to give me fits with dust.

Good luck,
Bill


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

It's the Crab grass Rick. That stuff always take another day longer to dry than the cool season grasses. The Orchard is absorbing the Crab sweat. As long as there is no heat things will be good.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Gearclash said:


> Next time you deal with dry or drying OG that is second or third cut, in addition to the exercises listed, take some plants and pull them apart piece by piece. I bet you will find that in the whorl there is a nice wet green piece. It's kind of the same problem oats hay has where the stem nodes and grain heads will hold moisture much longer than the rest of the plant.


that will be the next time we get three days of sun


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Vol said:


> It's the Crab grass Rick. That stuff always take another day longer to dry than the cool season grasses. The Orchard is absorbing the Crab sweat. As long as there is no heat things will be good.
> 
> Regards, Mike


that is kind of what I thought also, wish I could eradicate it but it is a struggle when you get a tropical storm in va in early aug,. comes on like gang busters.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

We’ve had trouble with it this year at times and others also. Even with three full days of sun, wind, and tedding twice. When it it thick, green and 40-50 bale to the acre it’s just hard to get dry unless it’s died down a lot to start. Which when that’s the case the yield suffers too. I didn’t mow last weekend as we had 1.5” Saturday on a small chance so I got nervous about mowing Sunday with slight chances Monday and Tuesday both. We have about 70 acres of third cutting left to go. Thick and green...and absolutely no forecast to make any of it. Would still rather be too wet than than dry this time of year.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Well, here is what my SWAG came up with, in my case.

Having just received some liquid sunshine (after being dry), plus fertilizer application (after 1st cut, this was 2nd). OG was growing 1" plus a day, from stubble By the third day after cutting, while baling I had 3-4 inches of new growth. Which was grabbed by baler, while baling. This fresh stuff was always on the outside of hay, hence against the sensors (star wheels on bottom of chamber). Other problem, OG stems where not being squished well (roll gap too wide, I since decreased it).

Harvest Tec showing over 32% moisture constantly while baling, lab test 13.5%.

Larry


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

r82230 said:


> Well, here is what my SWAG came up with, in my case.
> 
> Having just received some liquid sunshine (after being dry), plus fertilizer application (after 1st cut, this was 2nd). OG was growing 1" plus a day, from stubble By the third day after cutting, while baling I had 3-4 inches of new growth. Which was grabbed by baler, while baling. This fresh stuff was always on the outside of hay, hence against the sensors (star wheels on bottom of chamber). Other problem, OG stems where not being squished well (roll gap too wide, I since decreased it).
> 
> ...


Well makes sense, but our weed is crabgrass and it was growing like crazy. No 1 inch growth of OG here, like I wish!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Trotwood2955 said:


> We've had trouble with it this year at times and others also. Even with three full days of sun, wind, and tedding twice. When it it thick, green and 40-50 bale to the acre it's just hard to get dry unless it's died down a lot to start. Which when that's the case the yield suffers too. I didn't mow last weekend as we had 1.5" Saturday on a small chance so I got nervous about mowing Sunday with slight chances Monday and Tuesday both. We have about 70 acres of third cutting left to go. Thick and green...and absolutely no forecast to make any of it. Would still rather be too wet than than dry this time of year.


Yep, looking at the long range, not anything through august it seems. Where is that heat dome when you need it?


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> Next time you deal with dry or drying OG that is second or third cut, in addition to the exercises listed, take some plants and pull them apart piece by piece. I bet you will find that in the whorl there is a nice wet green piece. It's kind of the same problem oats hay has where the stem nodes and grain heads will hold moisture much longer than the rest of the plant.


All great advice! Thank you. Will defiantly be taking a closer look at the nodes. In addition most of our fields are no where close to pure OG, so interesting about crab grass.

Ah yes new growth always an issue for 2nd / 3rd.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hayman1 said:


> Well makes sense, but our weed is crabgrass and it was growing like crazy. No 1 inch growth of OG here, like I wish!


Here's what about 30 hours of growth looks like: cut at 4 1/4", 30 hours later at 6 1/8". No it's not growing sideways either.  I see this even in places where I cut at 3" high. I didn't plant the OG, it self seeds around here. Almost a nuisance, if you want straight alfalfa.

If it wasn't for HT, I wouldn't know OG is hard to grow in some areas and that they make high cut stubble shoes & why. 

The OG is growing so fast, that so far all my hay tests (2nd cutting) are coming back at over 20% protein (except one at 19.56%). This is with a 15 - 50% grass/alfalfa mix.

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I don't think I have ever grown 20% protein Orchard grass. Just too dang hot I suppose.

Regards, Mike


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Vol said:


> I don't think I have ever grown 20% protein Orchard grass. Just too dang hot I suppose.
> 
> Regards, Mike


If I can find the test results from straight OG, I post them.

Here's what I did a couple of years ago. It was about the 10th of May, with an early spring. I hadn't turn the cows out to pasture yet. OG was about 12-15" high. I hand harvested about a half a bushel basket full (ya, just grabbing hands full). I immediately package up a sample while still fresh and sent it in to the lab (sample #1).

The rest I spread out on a piece of plywood in the shed. Fluffing and turning it every day or so. After a week, I finally took it in the house to dry. Being the kids were gone, i could use half the kitchen table (I have a winner for a better half to put up with me  ). After a couple of days, it felt dry enough to bale, so I proceeded to fill another bag to send to the lab to be sampled (sample #2).

For a little fun, does anyone care to guess moisture of sample #1 and protein of #1 & #2? I'll give a hint, I was surprised.

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Larry, I do not doubt your word one bit on your growing such a high level Orchard grass. I wish I could do that here and I wish that Orchard grass grew as prolific here as it does in your region.

Regards, Mike


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Vol said:


> Larry, I do not doubt your word one bit on your growing such a high level Orchard grass. I wish I could do that here and I wish that Orchard grass grew as prolific here as it does in your region.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike, I wasn't insinuating that you couldn't grow high level of OG, sorry if you took that way. Just there can be differences in protein levels quickly in OG as it grows and possibly the growth rates.

Here are the test results from a couple of years ago that I found eye opening to say the least. I blacked the first one out to show customers what 'fresh or raw' OG, tests at. I read somewhere that growing crops are about 80% water. But they can't see that because of the blacking, I just want them to notice that their critter is eating over 23% protein stuff with early OG growth.





  








HayTest1 1




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r82230


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Aug 15, 2020








With this non-blacked out copy you can see it was over 75% water!! There could have been some loss on the way to the lab. Still the critters were eating 23% protein, because everything is measuring on a dry matter basis.





  








HayTest2 1




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r82230


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Aug 15, 2020








This was another eye opener that I could not explain to myself, this is the same stuff that I had on a plywood board drying for around 10 days (IIRC). The sample 'lost' over 3 points of protein (dropping from over 23% to just under 20%).  The positive, was I dried this until the old hand test felt the moisture was right for baling. I thought not bad for first thing in the spring to come in at 15.2%. 





  








HayTest3 1




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r82230


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Aug 15, 2020








Now I have also seen OG, protein in the high 5's and low 6's (not rained on either AND not mine ). Here the maturity levels on OG, drop much quicker than other cool season grasses, HERE. Generally, these low testing samples are taken from well mature OG, in what are drought or beginning of a drought conditions.

Late last summer I had some 4th cutting that the OG had just started growing again, when I cut it. It had been dry to where it wasn't growing for several weeks, I got a fair amount of rain about 2 weeks before cutting. The test result of that alfalfa/OG came back at over 24% protein. If I didn't have this knowledge of how high or protein OG can test on it's own, I would have been perplexed on that result.

I've become a believer in "don't guess, test", but I'm tying to put up high quality hay, that's selling for high $$. For me it's more profitable, to go for the top end of the market. Verses being chased to the bottom end of the market, where someone is always cheaper.  That's why my 3rd cutting is in the books, while a lot of folks in my area are just getting ready for 2nd cutting (or the bottom guys just finished 1st possibly the only cutting).

YMMV

Larry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

r82230 said:


> Mike, I wasn't insinuating that you couldn't grow high level of OG, sorry if you took that way.


Yes, I know that. The thought never entered my mind.

But, we cannot grow 20% protein Orchard grass here. It is too hot. And basically, you can only grow Orchard grass here in the Mountain regions....about like Timothy. I am in what is termed the "transition zone". A tweener for just about too hot for cool season grasses. But here in the foothills of the mountains, one can eek by and grow a few of the cooler grasses....but just barely. About the maximum protein % for Orchard here is 12+ per cent.

Regards, Mike


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## opcruzer (May 7, 2016)

I have just picked up a small custom customer that has new growth OG and I have never worked with it before. I cut it on Monday at noon and on Wednesday night it was testing 25-35% moisture with a probe and on Thursday night it was still 20-25%. I only have a sickle mower that is part of my problem, but the weather every day this week has been highs of 96-98 with wind, sun and low humidity (35% in the afternoon). I also messed up and raked with a side delivery on Wednesday evening which I shouldn't have done either.

To put this learning experience in perspective, I cut some Brome hay on monday morning and on Tuesday afternoon it was almost too dry because of the same weather conditions.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

opcruzer said:


> I have just picked up a small custom customer that has new growth OG and I have never worked with it before. I cut it on Monday at noon and on Wednesday night it was testing 25-35% moisture with a probe and on Thursday night it was still 20-25%. I only have a sickle mower that is part of my problem, but the weather every day this week has been highs of 96-98 with wind, sun and low humidity (35% in the afternoon). I also messed up and raked with a side delivery on Wednesday evening which I shouldn't have done either.
> 
> To put this learning experience in perspective, I cut some Brome hay on monday morning and on Tuesday afternoon it was almost too dry because of the same weather conditions.


Does anyone own a tedder in your area that you could borrow for a day or two?

Regards, Mike


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

With careful running you can flip that windrow over with a side delivery rake. It's all we had for years, no tedder, and when you get used to it you can flip it over onto the dry ground and the wetter bottom of the windrow dries fast, usually ready to bale that afternoon if you flip in the morning after chores.


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