# Why is my orchard grass yellow



## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

This is my first year growing orchard grass and when I was checking on it this morning I noticed that several of the leaves were still yellow. We had a late freeze after everything was up and growing and I am assuming that that is the cause but I wasn't sure.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

yep, hard freeze after it is growing will do it every time. It will look much better on regrowth after first cutting and a little topdress N. We had 4 mid-late April low 20 to mid 20 nights here after the grass was really growing. Makes you kinda sick to see but it will be fine, just seems to me it never recovers from those until it is cut then it looks like it never happened, especially if you get rain.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

Well said Hayman1 !!!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I agree with above....but do not forget about your sulphur needs....a field that is in need of S will have a paler look to it. Most of the Eastern US needs S since the Clean Air Act passed and has worked well at reducing sulphuric acid from the atmosphere. It is very noticeable in alfalfa when one needs sulphur....Orchard grass becomes much more green and blue also when S is added if short.

Regards, Mike


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks guys.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

I don't doubt frost damage, but there also is evidence of N deficiency on some leaves. How wet has the soil been and for how long. Denitrification (conversion of nitrate to nitrogen gas) may also be a possibility.


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

This ground is poor according to soil maps and the old guy that farmed it didn't believe in fertilizer. We are working to get the numbers up.


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

Now that the hay I cut is dried down even my novice eye can tell I have a definite shortage of nutrients. This first cutting was a bit of a disappointment as far as yields go, hopefully with a little boost I will be able to get a better second cutting. What is my window for getting the fertilizer on now that I have cut the hay and will hopefully have it off the field this weekend?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

jwise87 said:


> Now that the hay I cut is dried down even my novice eye can tell I have a definite shortage of nutrients. This first cutting was a bit of a disappointment as far as yields go, hopefully with a little boost I will be able to get a better second cutting. What is my window for getting the fertilizer on now that I have cut the hay and will hopefully have it off the field this weekend?


Do a soil test....see how long it will take for results.....if you are in a rush to get nutrients down, spread something generic like Triple 19 or 15.

Regards, Mike


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

We have the soil tests from last year before we spread it. I was hoping with that and the numbers of how much crop I removed they could work something up.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

jwise87 said:


> We have the soil tests from last year before we spread it. I was hoping with that and the numbers of how much crop I removed they could work something up.


Soil test people can make recommendations on what nutrients you should add.....they do here. Might take a couple of years to get you up to "snuff".....where was your PH at on your soil test?

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Several things could being going on:

But my first guess, based on the spots on some leaves and the tips of others turning brown, is that you have a fungus. This could be do to excessive wetness and/or nutrient deficiency.

Nutrient deficiency can cause your OG to be susceptible to fungi.

You said the ground was poor, so remember that it takes several years to rebuild P and K and that you not only have to add back what you take off, but you have to add more to build it back up.

Could you post your soil test results?

Ralph


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

Here is my test results from last summer. We have since 270# P and 310# K as well as 3 tons per acre lime.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Working from your average and my recollection of the UofI recommendations for the southern region of Illinois' soil type, your numbers are 8/140 UofI recommends 45/250 (minimum) and a 4 year plan to correct/amend the soil.
Therefore, your target of 45 and actual of 8 leaves a deficit of 37. It takes 9 lbs of P to adjust 1 point. So, 37x9 (units needed per point) divided by 4 (years)= 83 114. Now, if you're putting on 0-45-0, divide 83 ¼ by .45 and you will arrive at 185 lbs of 0-45-0 needed per year for 4 years to bring the soil to the minimum (not counting what you are taking off in hay...which is 12units of P per ton IIRC...which is @ 27 lbs of either Super Triple 0-45-0 or DAP 18-46-0)

The K is a slightly different formula in that it only takes 4 lbs of K to make a 1 point amendment. Therefore, 250 (min recommendation)- 140 (actual)=110 x 4 (pounds per point of adjustment) divided by 4 (years)= 110; 110 divided by .60 (if using 0-0-60) = 183 lbs per year for a 4-year plan (not inclusive of hay is taken off...50 units of K per ton IIRC.. or @85 lbs of 0-0-60 per ton of hay removed).

I know this is not a direct answer to your original question, but I hope that it helps.
Also, HERE, they recommend NEVER to put on over 300 lbs of 0-0-60.
73, Mark


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mark,
You just created more work for yourself
Now I will be consulting you for soil amendment information.
Just when you thought life was going to get easier for ya!!


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

jwise87 said:


> Here is my test results from last summer. We have since 270# P and 310# K as well as 3 tons per acre lime.


Mark is right on the money!

P needs to be around 70 (you're low at 40ish), K around 300 (you're B-A-D at 110-150 range), PH around 6.2-6.3. Key thing to remember: It'll take 2-4 years to build up the soil. 250 # potash is light; I might've gone 70 P, 300-320 K, depending on how much hay you take off, to build up.

Ralph


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

JD3430 said:


> Mark,
> You just created more work for yourself
> Now I will be consulting you for soil amendment information.
> Just when you thought life was going to get easier for ya!!


Be careful what you wish for. I'm happy (I mean it, I really like doing it) to help; the problem is, I know JUST enough to be dangerous. I know just enough to be confident in my answers...even if I'm wrong.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

rjmoses said:


> Mark is right on the money!
> 
> P needs to be around 70 (you're low at 40ish), K around 300 (you're B-A-D at 110-150 range), PH around 6.2-6.3. Key thing to remember: It'll take 2-4 years to build up the soil. 250 # potash is light; I might've gone 70 P, 300-320 K, depending on how much hay you take off, to build up.
> 
> Ralph


Ralph also makes a great point; the figures that I gave were to hit the minimum recommended levels. Mr Wise and I live in the Low CEC region of Illinois and for us (speaking toward hay, as corn and soybeans differ) a desired P "range" is 50-70 ( I remembered incorrectly and stated 45 in the earlier post); at @25P, hay's yield is approx 40% of potential, at 40P its yield potential raises to 80%, at 50P its potential is @90%. The desired K range is 260-360. Hay in 140K ground is limited to @80% of its potential, is at or about 97% at 260k, and about 99% at 360K.

So, the way I understand it, you are limited to <25% of your hay yielding potential with your 8P soil.

For Type C, low CEC soil with a 5.6PH, 5.1 ton per acre is recommended of "typical" lime, plowed in to a depth of 9 inches. If not plowing, or not plowing as deep, reduce rate of lime.

As per the UofI, yields are "not dependent on P or K after 70 and 360 respectively; IE, there will be no gain in yield from more fertilizer.

73, Mark


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## jwise87 (Sep 16, 2015)

This has been very helpful guys. I went by my local FS yesterday to talk to them about how much N I should come back with now that I have taken my first cutting off and the crop specialist (who looked like the ink wasn't dry on his diploma) wanted me to put down 100 pounds urea and 25 pounds elemental sulfur. I came home and did a little reading on it and I am not so sure, especially since I just read Mark's post about accessing yield potential. According to what I read from the University of Kentucky in low fertility soils the crop will not be able to access the N beyond a certain point and they recommended 50# for a split application this time of year. I also wonder about the sulfur since he made that recommendation on the general idea that sulfur will be low do to lower emissions. However, no crop has been removed from this ground in ~20 years and it is literally within 2 miles of a strip mine that produced high sulfur coal. I am going to come back after my last cutting and hit it with the p and k to build it up but I wanted this N so I could get another cutting or two off of it. I only got about 300 bales, although since I had the baler set wrong they were HEAVY, off of the 15 acres I cut.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

jwise87 Posted Today, 08:40 AM

~20 years and it is literally within 2 miles of a strip mine that produced high sulfur coal.

I though the sulfur that we "received free" was from coal fired power plants emissions for years. And now that they have either closed the coal fired plants or add a scrubbers to remove the emissions, we are not receiving the free sulfur, anymore. Was I mislead (again)?

Someday, I might be smarter than a fifth grader, but apparently not today.


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## Mellow (Jun 22, 2015)

Sulfur is like nitrogen and moves in the soil structure so it needs to be applied every year or after every cutting if splitting. Also consider a little Boron which helps nutrient uptake. I spray a pint or quart/ac with my nitrogen. Your low CEC will also limit the amount of nutrients that the soil will be able to hold so applying too much will be a waste of money.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

25 pounds per acre of sulphur sounds about right....if you are hesistant, do a soil test for S and maybe a micro test. Here we apply sulphur every couple of years on average.

Regards, Mike


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