# Looking for old (cheap) 2WD tractor, with FEL, Deere the only powershift?



## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I am having a little sticker shock, asking if anyone knowns of a suitable machine somewhere, and had a question on powershifts. I will break it out into 3 paragraphs.

1. Been watching auctions and private sales. Best I can find right now is a Case 1170 with std trans, new rebuilt engine, fresh clutch, good AC, duals, FEL, for 8000. Really shoulds like EXACLTY what it is worth. I am a bargain shopper so hard to swallow that, plus the fact that I really like the powershift trans.

2. I guess I might ask if any of you Kansans know of a comparable machine priced right that is not junk?

3. As well, I was told that Deere might have had the only full powershift in the 70s vintage that I will probably have to buy in. Is that accurate? I have been in their construction equipment from that era and ran super but I don't think I can afford a Deere, or may not want to. I just would like to have that powershift. Maybe I will just have to work on an upgrade someday.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

The old cases are the cheapest powershifts you can find around here. Consistently under 10,000$. Only other cheap tractor I know of are the AC's with that weird power director.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I have an IH 966 with Woods loader, 7' bucket and bale spear, 3 remotes, 540/1000 PTO, 6700 hours on tractor, rebuilt engine has 600 hours, needs TA/clutch work, new front tires, rears about 40%.

I'm asking $9900 or I will get a new TA and clutch put in and would want $12500.

Ralph


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> The old cases are the cheapest powershifts you can find around here. Consistently under 10,000$. Only other cheap tractor I know of are the AC's with that weird power director.


I thought these were not full powershifts? "partial" as they called them? Still have to clutch out of the hole, etc. Basically no torque converter but some sort of valve aided shifting?

The 1170 I noted above is a standard. I am just not sure if holding out for PS is smart move or not.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not 100% sure, there are certain ones with a 24 speed powershift, others a 3 speed partial over the normal transmission.

I'm only used to more modern powershifts that you always have to use the clutch/inching pedal to start the engine then you can use it to get going or use the wet clutch reverser lever to start out.

I'm not a huge fan of power shifts due to the risk of repairs costing more than the tractor happening shortly after purchase.



fastline said:


> I thought these were not full powershifts? "partial" as they called them? Still have to clutch out of the hole, etc. Basically no torque converter but some sort of valve aided shifting?
> 
> The 1170 I noted above is a standard. I am just not sure if holding out for PS is smart move or not.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

There is a side of me that agrees with that. Something can be said some reliability with an old std.

However, I was looking to possibly drag around a dirt pan with it to do a LOT of digging. I have a D7 that may be able to assist but less machines running costs less too. I was just thinking about how many million shift I might make from switching to fill gear, to travel and unload gear. That powershift certain can spoil ya! Might not be worth worrying about for 1weeks work...


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

There is a consignment farm sale in Durham Kansas on March 30 there will be a number of tractors I can keep you updated on what shows up what size are you looking for?


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I guess as big as I can afford. 4000 series Deeres, Case 1170ish and up, IH 1086ish and up. remotes, 3pt, pto 540/1000 a must. FEL almost a must. Cab and AC preferred but not a must. 90HP minimum. Prefer 140HP and up.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Some of the old ford tractors had a powershift they called select o speed. From what I have heard they had pretty well perfected it by the time the 1000 series came out anything before that and particularly the model 6000 I have been told not to touch that they gave a lot of trouble.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Was that the "funk" transmission? The one that Deere eventually bought?


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

There was a 190XT turbo Allis with Westendorf WL42 loader in the Farm Bureau Spokesman for $6000obo. last week. They were a pretty good tractor if you don't mind orange.

If you want power shift that is cheaper and reliable, an older style 4020 Deere would work. I have one on a 510 Koyker loader and its really handy. If you want a real horse, go find a 4630 powershift. They can be had for $9000 on up to $20,000. The Deere powershifts are pretty reliable. The 8 speeds are sometimes referred to as "jerkomatics" though.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Was that the "funk" transmission? The one that Deere eventually bought?


I believe so. However, you could electronically "calibrate" them (can't remember the button sequence) and they would read out a number that indicates how far gone the transmission was. When it reached 99, you were operating on borrowed time. Not bad transmissions, but like anything else, they needed to be maintained.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

I have an AC 7080 with duals cab air heat every thing works for sale asking $10,000


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob M said:


> I have an AC 7080 with duals cab air heat every thing works for sale asking $10,000


Bob, is that the big ol Allis that was at Ag Industrial?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

What about White's? I see them at prices that look good. No idea on trannies. But they appear from the outside to be cheap hp?


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Bob, is that the big ol Allis that was at Ag Industrial?


No that one was articulated 4wd mine is row crop 2wd.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Allis Chalmers had a full powershift in the 7000 series in '75 i believe. 7040 and 7060 had powershift in a maroon belly tractor, probably get a decent one bought for $6500-8500. I have over 7500 hours on my 8050 powershift, and engine has never been touched as well as any powershift/ rear end issues. Im partial to orange though.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I dont know much about them except they were bought by AGCO. Good looking tractors outside. The 4WD's looked a little short on wheelbase. Cabs seemed plain inside. Did they have a Allis-Chalmers diesel or use someone elses?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Its an Allis Chalmers 426 ci engine. Used extensively throughout the 7000 and 8000 series, as well as the Gleaner combines. And Allis Chalmers wasnt bought out by Agco, it becamed Agco after Deutz screwed them up. AGCO= Allis Gleaner Corporation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Its so confusing....Allis, deutz/allis, agco, agco/white, agco/allis...jeeze


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## T&LSkaarfarms (Dec 11, 2011)

fastline said:


> I am having a little sticker shock, asking if anyone knowns of a suitable machine somewhere, and had a question on powershifts. I will break it out into 3 paragraphs.
> 
> 1. Been watching auctions and private sales. Best I can find right now is a Case 1170 with std trans, new rebuilt engine, fresh clutch, good AC, duals, FEL, for 8000. Really shoulds like EXACLTY what it is worth. I am a bargain shopper so hard to swallow that, plus the fact that I really like the powershift trans.
> 
> ...


I am not from Kansas, but I can give you some free advice Without seeing that case tractor it sounds like a good idea. I wouldnt even touch it if it were a power shift as they were known to grenade, especially on the high horsepower tractors that have been worked hard, but as a standard your a lot more safe. Up here in WI they generally go for scrap price at auctions. Parts are likely readily available from a dealer and I would think there would be a ton of used parts out there as well.

Deere did have a power shift on thier 40 series tractors but I am afraid with what you say you want to spend you probably wouldnt even touch a tractor for what you can find other multiple other brands with loaders for. If you do decide deere or anything with a power shift make darn sure it is a good unit as to have one rebuilt could very well cost you more than you bought the tractor for in the first place.

That early Ford power shift is pretty risky too. I have one on a 63 Ford 4000 and it is good, mainly cause I have a Ford guru close to rebuilt it, but more often than not they are shot or close to it. The pre 1962 models had big issues from what I remember. Many have probably had updates by now but you never know. They were pretty prone to jump out of park into reverse as well if the cable was not adjusted correctly. Makes for a scary situation if your hooking something up when this happens. Believe me...

I would like to think I have a fairly good knowledge of IH tractors and I would probably lead you away from the 86 series as the hydraulics are on one side of you and the gear ranges are on the other side as well as the throttle being way up on the dash. Just kind of a PIA for a loader tractor. 56 and 66 series are much better and would probably fit in your price range a little easier.

Good luck, not sure how things are by you but around here spring is a comin! Minus the 4-8 inches of snow we are suppose to get tonight...

Tom


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

We have a '78 1370 Case, last year they made the 70 series. We did have the input shaft snap off on the power shift. $5k later, it works. Biggest issue with the power shift, make sure you do not do stationary PTO work with it in reverse. It can be done, and is MURDER on it.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

stack em up said:


> And Allis Chalmers wasnt bought out by Agco, it becamed Agco after Deutz screwed them up. AGCO= Allis Gleaner Corporation.


Matter of opinion on who grabbed their ankles on that deal. Allis Chalmers was bankrupt after throwing all their eggs in the Jimmy Carter/Shale oil basket.
Deutz lost 500 million on the deal being led to believe they were also buying the dealerships. Almost bankrupt them.
American politics at it's finest.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> Matter of opinion on who grabbed their ankles on that deal. *Allis Chalmers was bankrupt after throwing all their eggs in the Jimmy Carter/Shale oil basket.*
> Deutz lost 500 million on the deal being led to believe they were also buying the dealerships. Almost bankrupt them.
> American politics at it's finest.


Hey I never heard about that....
Can you elaborate?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

JUst found this
http://webspace.webring.com/people/nj/jpessek/Page7.html


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## sethd11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Wow


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Short of the Pennsylvania railroad, that has to be the biggest flop of a company I've ever seen.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

Using the words "old" "cheap" and "powershift" in the same sentence is a bad idea, you will end up with a pile of junk more than likely.

Most everyone had some kind of two speed, ford had dual power, IH had T/a, oliver had over/under, etc. A ford select-o-speed didn't come in tractors as big as your looking for. The first large fords with powershifts were 8000 series made from 90-93 and had the funk transmission like the genesis but still the old 401 and not the genesis 456 engine. The funk in those was pretty good but they probably more like a $20,000 machine. FYI a powershift in a 4xxx deere is like buying the tractor again if it goes out. A case probably isn't that bad of a powershift but they have some operator requirements, like i believe on the 3spds you only push the clutch in when you are in 1st gear.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Correct cmd. Actually if you push the clutch in, it automatically reverts back to first.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Oliver had a hydropower which was a two speed on the early tractors, then they had a three speed over/under forever that is practically bullet proof and will handle up to 225hp. Only problems were the sprague clutch in it, eventually they will wear the shaft down and you lose under, but the rest still works, pretty salty once the shaft is wore.

Both my loader tractors are JD's (a 400 backhoe and a 401c Industrial). Neither have the full powershift but have a power reverser coupled to a 8 speed manual transmission. Reversers are for the most part bullet proof, only trouble I've had was on the backhoe and the only malfunction there was a bunch of cracked o-rings that were bleeding off too much pressure to fully lock up the clutch packs. Had less than $200 in repairs.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Well, I am certainly hearing you guys on the powershifts in older machines. I have a CAT D7 from the 60s that has a damn near bullet proof trans and is just such a sweetheart to operate.

However, 50,000lbs, vs 10,000lbs. The 1170 I am looking at did get better in price, comes with 6 wheels.tires for the rear, bale spear and forks, and a 3pt speed hitch system. Remember rebuilt engine with 400hrs, new clutch, AC comp, and trans was worked over several years ago. The FEL is factory Case.

I am just curious what would be a good value to put on a tractor like this? I want to make sure I have some room in it if I either want to sell it or it breaks. I am a mechanic and worked on a few large CATs but desire and ability are different things. I just want to use it, not hone my wrenching skills.

I just watched an IH1086 go at auction for 6500 with FEL. Was a touch rough on main I believe, had a front main seal leak. They called it minor but it was a constant drip the whole time we were there with a puddle. I call that serious. Came with the dual rims only, GB FEL, tires were probably 30-40%.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

fastline said:


> Well, I am certainly hearing you guys on the powershifts in older machines. I have a CAT D7 from the 60s that has a damn near bullet proof trans and is just such a sweetheart to operate.
> 
> However, 50,000lbs, vs 10,000lbs. The 1170 I am looking at did get better in price, comes with 6 wheels.tires for the rear, bale spear and forks, and a 3pt speed hitch system. Remember rebuilt engine with 400hrs, new clutch, AC comp, and trans was worked over several years ago. The FEL is factory Case.
> 
> I am just curious what would be a good value to put on a tractor like this? I want to make sure I have some room in it if I either want to sell it or it breaks. I am a mechanic and worked on a few large CATs but desire and ability are different things. I just want to use it, not hone my wrenching skills.


I have a feeling wrenching skills will be needed, but at least it'll be easy to work on!



> I just watched an IH1086 go at auction for 6500 with FEL. Was a touch rough on main I believe, had a front main seal leak. They called it minor but it was a constant drip the whole time we were there with a puddle. I call that serious. Came with the dual rims only, GB FEL, tires were probably 30-40%.


I just got rid of a tractor with a rear main seal leak. Can't stand that problem. Just drips money away, ruins blacktop or concrete and kills grass.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

fastline said:


> I am just curious what would be a good value to put on a tractor like this? I want to make sure I have some room in it if I either want to sell it or it breaks. I am a mechanic and worked on a few large CATs but desire and ability are different things. I just want to use it, not hone my wrenching skills.


I hear yah, I'm very cautious in my used equipment purchases and will pay more if the value is clear as I'd rather use it than fix it. My father is the exact opposite, cheaper the better as he thinks I'm his free mechanic. That crap is gonna end, maybe if I start charging the same per hour as the local dealers he might get the point to quit wasting my time on junk.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

mlappin said:


> I hear yah, I'm very cautious in my used equipment purchases and will pay more if the value is clear as I'd rather use it than fix it. My father is the exact opposite, cheaper the better as he thinks I'm his free mechanic. That crap is gonna end, maybe if I start charging the same per hour as the local dealers he might get the point to quit wasting my time on junk.


They grew up in a different time...its hard but I really miss mine and the proud smile on his face when I could fix it for him and he was only out the parts! Martin


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Nitram said:


> They grew up in a different time...its hard but I really miss mine and the proud smile on his face when I could fix it for him and he was only out the parts!	Martin


Yeah but, some of these purchases end up costing more than the better one would have cost.

Case in point, when we were forklift shopping I found a nice MF forklift, 4 cylinder perkins, hydrostatic, three section mast, hydraulic brakes, a size larger front and rear tires with 60% left on them with little or no weather checking. Instead he bought the cheapest one there, tired old 801 ford turned around. Only a two section mast that has cracked twice since it's wore so thin since all the rollers were stuck, tires that had to be replaced front and back, brakes that barely worked, and a motor so tired it won't even hold it in first gear on a very slight incline. $3500 difference in price. SO far have $500 in a head, $700 in a clutch and other assorted parts when it grenaded, $1600 in tires, still need to replace the mast, still need to bore or re-sleeve the block and it's freakin gas so time wasted driving in town to buy gas and it has a thousand pounds less lifting capacity. Have also had to weld the block. So...where was the money saved? Not to mention my time.

I'm thinking $75/hour would be a good starting point. You can't polish a turd, no matter how hard you try it will still be a Ford.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

My granddad is the same way he will spend a dollar to save a dime. We generally get along great but it is aggrevating when he wants to buy something because it is cheap and we can afford to fix it up when in the long run we end up spending more than what a really nice one would have cost and not have half as nice of a machine. I just cant figure out why he does not realize that because he is very smart. I am getting ready to buy a new tedder because I am tired of constantly having to fix the one I have and I know he is not going to be very happy about that.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> My granddad is the same way he will spend a dollar to save a dime. We generally get along great but it is aggrevating when he wants to buy something because it is cheap and we can afford to fix it up when in the long run we end up spending more than what a really nice one would have cost and not have half as nice of a machine. I just cant figure out why he does not realize that because he is very smart. I am getting ready to buy a new tedder because I am tired of constantly having to fix the one I have and I know he is not going to be very happy about that.


That's how I ended up buying all my own hay machinery. Was wanting to expand my share of the hay making operation but father's equipment was holding us back. Bought a new v rake first, then when he seen how much faster it was and that it did a much better job, he sold me his tired old stuff at trade in value then I traded it in on the next piece.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I just learned that lesson with my Kubota purchase. Bought a tractor for "cheap" and found out it needed more work than I thought. Main seal leak I didnt see, cab was more beat up than I thought, tires need replaced, etc. Thought I could get by with it. By the time I added up all the repairs, I knew I had to get out of it. Bought a newer used tractor and I'm a lot happier. To me it was easier to make a higher payment than unknown repair costs.
I hate junk. I've owned so much of it and suffered the downtime, repair bills and what never gets factored in is the "cost" of frustration. Damn near got killed trying to patch together a few machines, too.
You get one life. I'm not saying spend irresposibly, but at least get yourself some reliable equipment and get the job done without having to stop and make repairs ever 100 yards.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't disagree with you... just mention it because of what i learned since he's been gone. He had the money and didn't have to bake in the summer and freeze in the winter I would get so mad busting knuckles on crap not worth the band aid. He grew up during the depression in the middle of kansas. I look back now and think what wouldn't I give to bleed for him again! Just saying. Ps I was a hot head and damn lucky he held his temper.lol


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I too have fought a little with fixing other's junk and learned it is easier to walk away or say "I am too busy". After one of those where the machine either sits for years or is sold off for less than paid, people usually get the hint. THEN, they start to listen to me that if I am going to work on it, it better make financial sense. I would MUCH rather buy a forklift for 3k that needs a new engine than one for 15K that has 6000hrs and smokes but runs. There are just times that repairs make sense. On others you can just add the buy costs and repair costs together and that is what they sell for in working condition. Yeah, I will take that route...

What has now made me nervous with tractor buys now is hearing about people rebuilding rear ends and transmissions. there is little to no test for this stuff. Fatigue is what it is. I personally had a truck rear end I built for my own truck and shimmed it 15x because it has a noise. I knew my settings were right but something was up with those gears. 6-7yrs later, I was just leaving work and a whole tooth popped off the pinion. Luckily didn;t do anything but drop to the bottom. Got free replacements and set it up the same. Noise free....perfect.

The IH1086 I just looked at, guy said he was just mowing and the trans locked up and destroyed everything. His bill was &7K. I have heard of a few other transmission issues. Makes me wonder about fatigue like in these gears. I don't hear much of that on CAT heavy equipment.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Chinese castings is my answer. Theres something about the way they cast their steel and iron or their metallurgical techniques that cause more failures in internal parts.

Thanks my .02c.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

But this is on 70s era tractors.... lIkely to be 100% American at that time. Just not sure what to make of gears just breaking.


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

Deere's 20 series tractors with powershift are bullet proof. We ran a 3020 and 4020 specifically for pulling TMR mixers everyday 2x a day. We repowered the 3020 with an engine from a new (at the time) 6400 JD, 4020 engine was overhauled as soon as we got it. Both transmissions were rock solid when the farm sold, never touched, no problems, 9000+ hours on each.

Biggest issue is going to be price. Collectors have found them, are picking them up fast as rebuilders. Something under $10,000 is suspect. Also need to check the tractors carefully. The 4020 we bought looked like it came off the showroom floor, but the motor was on its last legs.

You could also look at 30 series Deere's: 4230 or 4430 with powershift. Same thing though, cheap tractors are usually real rough, and I knew guys who used them for fieldwork pulling equipment that should of had a 4630 or bigger hooked to it. Lot of screws got turned way up on them.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I just went to an auction and watched a few Deeres sell. I will have to check my numbers but I believe a 4620 sold for around 8500. Unfortunately none had a loader and from what I gather in price research, that really drives up the price of the tractor. I felt about everything was selling high or at least not cheap.

I was really thinking a one owner shedded 1170 with factory loader and new engine in the $7K range would be a reasonable enough stepping stone? Maybe try to sell for 9K in a year? A guy is really trying to help me out getting into the business. After all, there is a LOT of upfront expenses and the last thing I want to do is go beg a lender and do an ankle grab in the process. If I operate as paid in full on this, I will feel MUCH better.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Green paint is awfully pricey. Too many people want it to sit in the shed. Drives the price up on all green.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

fastline said:


> I just went to an auction and watched a few Deeres sell. I will have to check my numbers but I believe a 4620 sold for around 8500. Unfortunately none had a loader and from what I gather in price research, that really drives up the price of the tractor. I felt about everything was selling high or at least not cheap.
> 
> I was really thinking a one owner shedded 1170 with factory loader and new engine in the $7K range would be a reasonable enough stepping stone? Maybe try to sell for 9K in a year? A guy is really trying to help me out getting into the business. After all, there is a LOT of upfront expenses and the last thing I want to do is go beg a lender and do an ankle grab in the process. If I operate as paid in full on this, I will feel MUCH better.


Yes, you will feel better about the equipment you own. I know I do.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

Here is the dilema. I just got back from looking the Case 1170 and I know I can be picky but it seemed to have a list of this and thats. Many wires have damage, lights need fixed, lift cylinders need packed bad, trim pieces all over interior are missing, etc. Starts right up and sounds perfect but it just looks weathered to me. But, for 7K, is that all I can get?

What I am trying to figure right now is Case or International???? I hear a lot about the torque amplifier in the IH, expensive, problematic, etc. I am not sure which were built better, etc. I can't afford dealing with a broken trans or rear end.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

fastline said:


> Here is the dilema. I just got back from looking the Case 1170 and I know I can be picky but it seemed to have a list of this and thats. Many wires have damage, lights need fixed, lift cylinders need packed bad, trim pieces all over interior are missing, etc. Starts right up and sounds perfect but it just looks weathered to me. But, for 7K, is that all I can get?
> 
> What I am trying to figure right now is Case or International???? I hear a lot about the torque amplifier in the IH, expensive, problematic, etc. I am not sure which were built better, etc. I can't afford dealing with a broken trans or rear end.


Its the dilema we all face. I'd rather make payments with a warranty than repairs without.


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## cmd (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm not sure what you got going on but I think you need to slow down this process a little until you can learn what you need to in order to know what your buying. $7000 doesn't buy much of a tractor with a loader in the 100 hp range. Around here that is going to buy something right on the edge of the junkyard.


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## FCF (Apr 23, 2010)

cmd said:


> I'm not sure what you got going on but I think you need to slow down this process a little until you can learn what you need to in order to know what your buying. $7000 doesn't buy much of a tractor with a loader in the 100 hp range. Around here that is going to buy something right on the edge of the junkyard.


I agree, excellent advice.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Its the dilema we all face. I'd rather make payments with a warranty than repairs without.


Problem is, warranty runs out before the payments do...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

stack em up said:


> Problem is, warranty runs out before the payments do...


Not always-depends on how long the loan is.....and you can extend it, too.
But even if the warranty did expire, I'd rather have that and/or a healthy tractor just out of warranty than bring home an older pile of repairs.
Just went through the same thing. I got mesmerized by the cheap price and tried to convince myself I could handle the repairs.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I certainly hear the reponses. I would like to accept the payments but in my current situation, I want to stay clean and clear. There really is nothing on the tractor I cannot fix but down time can be an issue. I was just trying to learn if these older tractors have a reputation for breaking or if they are few and far between. Afterall, it sure seems like all the problems make it to the Inet. You never hear about those that have a tractor 20yrs and never touch it and love it.

The seller of the 1170 has agreed to fix several items on it if I buy it. cylinder leaks, minor fuel leak, tires, etc. The big question I think is the trans and rear end because the engine I guess was built about 10yrs ago but only 400hrs ago. has 5200hrs total.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

The cheapest one always costs more. Every time I forget that I remember quickly after I lose $$$.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

In your price range you may want to consider cutting hp in half to avoid a money pit.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

Honestly I think you are looking for too much for too little. The times are gone when you could find a nice 100hp tractor with cab & loader for $4-5k. If you really hunt hard you may be able to find a smoking deal on something someone just wants to get rid of though. The 1170 is a 40+ year old tractor, you can't really expect everything to be in perfect condition.

You could spend $5k on a ragged out tractor, or $20k on a nice looking one and have the tranny problem & repair bill. Buying used is always a crap shoot. If the current owner has owned it awhile & said there is no major issues & the engine had an overhaul recently I would prefer that over something on a dealers lot that you don't know why it's there.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> Not always-depends on how long the loan is.....and you can extend it, too.
> But even if the warranty did expire, I'd rather have that and/or a healthy tractor just out of warranty than bring home an older pile of repairs.
> Just went through the same thing. I got mesmerized by the cheap price and tried to convince myself I could handle the repairs.


But if you buy new you are guaranteed to pay $XXX, and you are not guaranteed to not have down time. Yeah you have the warrenty to pay for the repairs but you still may have hay left on the ground.

If you buy an older tractor for 1/4 the cost there is a possiblity you may have a big repair bill & down time. There is also a chance though that you may have very little cost in repairs & can lower your cost per acre drasticlly. There is also a chance that even if you buy new you could blow the ranny right after your warrenty is up. Then you would have the high inital cost plus the high repair cost.

The other part is, for the most part it's cheaper to fix older stuff then newer stuff. The newer stuff has to go to the dealer so they can use there laptop, the older stuff is basic & a independent shop can fix at what is usually a lower price.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I wasnt trying to convince our friend to buy a NEW tractor. I was trying to suggest he might look past his 7K budget to find something more reliable in a newer used tractor. Like was said above, the day of finding a powershift 100HP tractor with a loader that wont grenade within a year is pretty much over, unless you get lucky.
Maybe you can buy a 15K tractor. Take the 7K for the one on the edge of the junkyard and use that as a substantial down payment. Then pay off the remaining $8,000 over 3 years for $235/month. Thats less than the average american spends per month in drive through food.
I live a pretty modest life. T-shirts and jeans. No motorcycles, boats, vacation homes, rolex's, jacked up 4x4's with chrome stacks, etc. I take that money and invest it in my businesses.

I completely respect the OP's way of doing things with no payments, but with interest rates this low, you can use their money to help you get a better tractor. The 40+ yr old tractor he is considering is also probably going to see parts shortages like my 22+ year old haybine is.

We live in really tough times, but I am old enough to remember 20% interest rates. Now you can finance old farm equipment for 3-5 years for 4%. Thats something worth considering.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If you take away the loader you can buy a good 100 hp white with an over under in your budget and it won't have been a loader tractor.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

slowzuki said:


> If you take away the loader you can buy a good 100 hp white with an over under in your budget and it won't have been a loader tractor.


I was thinking the same thing. Or drop to an open station 80 hp tractor which is easier to find. The 100+ hp with loader really limits your options.

When you are just starting out you sometimes need to seperate the "needs" from the "wants." There is a whole lot of stuff that I "want", but it just isn't in the budget right now.

JD does bring up a good point about parts. I wonder if that would be an issue with the old Case? According to tractor date the 1170 was only made one year. It also had a Case engine in it.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Doesn't it make you wonder why the engine was rebuilt at 4800 hrs? With all the little problems that you have seen already, that is nothing compared to what you will see in the future. You will find out how expensive that tractor is gonna be and why the price is so cheap. Run away fast and find you an early 10 or 20 series JD that will only command a bigger price later on. JMHO Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

In my opinion you would be better off to buy a tractor without a loader and add one later on. A tractor that has has a loader on it for its entire life has probably been abused quite a bit more than one without without a loader.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I have come to the conclusion in my purchases that if you are in doubt best move on...most good deals you feel confident in. Even those can throw you!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nitram said:


> I have come to the conclusion in my purchases that if you are in doubt best move on...most good deals you feel confident in. Even those can throw you!


Words to live by.
I so often make price and budget my first priority. Yes, price is very important. Then I find myself adding things to the less expensive choice that would have come with the more expensive choice.
When buying used equipment, get a used piece that gets as close as you can get to everything you want for a price you can afford.


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## fastline (Mar 2, 2013)

I agree, used equipment as well as new equipment is just a crap shoot. I have seen ragged out looking machines continue to take punishment and request more. I have also seen $100K CNCs put on a floor and sit for a month while all the problems are sorted out it it stops breaking. I can't afford even close to new and don't want to.

I will try to elaborate on the 1170 since I am honestly leaning that way as a temporary machine. Engine was rebuilt because the sleeve seals gave up and got water in the oil. The engine got new sleeves, pistons, crank, and rods. I will admit that the engine starts and sounds good, has no leaks, does not use antifreeze, and has next to no blowby.

I have discussed my long list of issues with the seller and he has agreed to repair most of the items on his dime. Having the lift cylinders professionally rebuilt, installing all new filters, check and charge the AC, install better but used rear tires and use the others as the duals, check all gauges, etc. The story on the tractor is the guy is getting out of farming and understands my situation as trying to get into farming again. I am not impressed with the custom fabbed bale spear and 3pt fork but I can look past that.

I guess the cab was installed later in life, not rom the factory so there are a few cosmetic items I don't much like but I guess I am a grand master in fixing that sort of thing and should probably focus on the tractor functions.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Fowllife said:


> But if you buy new you are guaranteed to pay $XXX, and you are not guaranteed to not have down time. Yeah you have the warrenty to pay for the repairs but you still may have hay left on the ground.


I bought a new tractor a year and a half ago. The deal was if I broke down under warrenty they would drop off another tractor when they picked mine up. Did not have to be the exact same tractor but I would not be left stranded.

Same with the new baler. If they can not fix it in the field then they will bring one to use until mine is repaired.

I have run old tractors all my life. No way could I have started out with new everything. Still, I would not spend much on any large used tractor unless I knew the seller or the tractor.
Same with disc mowers.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> I bought a new tractor a year and a half ago. The deal was if I broke down under warrenty they would drop off another tractor when they picked mine up. Did not have to be the exact same tractor but I would not be left stranded.
> 
> Same with the new baler. If they can not fix it in the field then they will bring one to use until mine is repaired.
> 
> ...


I can still wrench on old stuff, but man it gets tough when you get older. Another reason I avoid the older stuff.


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