# Where does leaf shatter occur?



## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

I have nothing to do with Alfalfa, just grass hay. I see alot of guys on here have to wait for dew to bale alfalfa to reduce leaf shatter or end up baling sticks. What part of the baler does the most damage? Pickup, stuffer, plunger etc? Once you get it into the bale chamber even if leaf shatters is it not still in the bale? Feed value is still there is it not?
Input appreciated.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

You start losing leaves as soon as the pickup tine touches the hay. From the can you can see the leaves flying off. Makes you wanna cry. If the pickup does that, imagine what the suffer and plunger do.

True, what goes in the pre compression chamber mostly winds up in the bale but you have to consider the end use. The leaves aren't much good if they're all on the floor of the stable. On the other hand, it may not matter so much if it's going into a tub grinder for TMR.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Also, leaf loss is why some people prefer to roll their hay into round bales instead of stuffing and plunging them into squares.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Most of our hay is sold on looks. We will wait as long as it takes to be able to see a few intact leaves on the outside of the bale. If it's too dry, when a guy walks behind the baler, every time the bale makes a new flake, the leaves just fall to the ground as dust. If you walk to the pickup area of the baler, as the pickup is lifting the hay, you see the leaves go in all directions. I'd guess that the most get lost at the pickup, and then nearly as many get lost in the feeder area.

Rodney


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

...and this is just from baling. Factor in one or two tedd jobs + one or two rake jobs at a MINIMUM of 10% leaf loss per and you start to see why wet hay is attractive.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

We have to wait until 10 pm to start baling. We usually have a 4 hr. window. That is when the leaves start to pickup moisture but the stems are dry. Sometimes you just have to bale when you can depending on the weather thats coming. Even with round baling you can see the leaves falling out the bottom of the baler like a sieve. It has always been tricky to deal with alfalfa. As some have said, you start losing leaves as soon as any piece of equipment touches it. You can walk behind the baler and see the leaf loss trail. Mike


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

enos, I have not a clue about grass hay in Canada, but Here in Central Texas, baling bermudagrass hay there is a bigger opportunity to shatter off leaves baling bermudagrass than baling alfalfa, all else being equal. The difference being bermudagrass stems look good in a bale, while alfalfa stems look like a bundle of sticks.

rank has it correct. When the humidity is low enough and the Hay's moisture (in the leaves) is low enough you will shatter leaves. Irregardlessly! (If you do not mind a humorous redundancy)
When it comes to round baling the leaf loss is not noticed as much but it is for sure there. If just look where the baler was standing whiling wrapping and consider the nice little pile of leaves. Round baling is pretty violent and can be more violent than square baling. 
There is no need to lose a lot of leaves, quality, and or total dry matter when raking, or using a tedder. The key is to do those operations when there is plenty of dew on the hay. Fully cured hay at *>90% relative humidity *will be above the *magic 40% moisture *and limit leaf shatter. 
Now the magic 40% hay moisture does not work if all the moisture is in the stems and the leaves are powder dry!
NDVA HAYMAN is saying that bone dry stems are not the problem it is leaves that are dry and brittle. Stems at 10% moisture and leaves at 30% moisture will average 20% moisture and not have significant leaf loss. Baling at night they can start when the humidity, down next to the windrow, is* 60% or 65%* with minimal leaf loss. Their hay will be too damp to bale when moisture shows on the tires. 
Day time baling, *Here*, I can start at *70% RH*, by the time I get the bale (small sq) length and weight the way I want it the hay will be baling at 18% to 20% moisture, with an occasional flake reading 22%. Here in about 2 hours the humidity will be down in the *50 - 55 percent *range and the hay will be *10 to 12 percent *moisture at which point the leaves will be starting to fly excessively.

*You might want to purchase an inexpensive humidity reporting instrument. One of those and on the go moisture testing sure takes a lot of guess work out of baling hay*.


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