# What's the best choice in conditioner rollers?



## D_Krone (Oct 14, 2009)

Hi there!

I'm a farmer from Germany and I just signed up at HayTalk to be able to open this thread. Found this site through Google and I'm impressed how helpful it is. 
I already had a look on several topics, but didn't really find what I was looking for.

As I'm planning to grow some lugumes I started doing a research on the internet, what the best type of roller conditioner would be to choose. Growing alfalfa, clover or whatsoever is not popular over here so there's not much knowledge about harvesting those crops. 
So at the moment my research pretty much relies on experiences from the States.

The only common conditioners over here are the flail ones - but also everybody knows they're not useful when it comes to legumes. 
Nearly every brand offers conditioner rollers for their mowers though, but there are many differences in their shape and material - but not even the manufacturers really know the benefits about their chosen thread.

I found the website of Circle C Equipment (Hay Equipment for the Advanced Farmer) and it seems that they've done some serious studies about their work. Can anyone tell me more about their product? Is it as good as they say? Is it reliable and durable? Does it maybe only have advantages as long as you got no rocks on your fields?

I also found B&D Rollers (http://www.bdrollers.com./); they also offer a system of conditioner rolls, called "The Crusher". Interestingly their rollers are pretty much the same as the Circle C ones.

Would be great if anyone, who knows more about those conditioners or is even using them could give me a feedback!

Thanks,
Tim


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## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

I run both circle c and B&D rollers. And you are right about the similarity between them. They will both do an amazing job conditioning alfalfa, just like the companies claim. The main difference is that Circle C builds a complete system with new rolls and a roll pressure system that uses air bags to put the squeeze on the rolls. They seem to have enough experience doing this to know what works, so it's pretty trouble free. The B&D guys re-cover your old rolls with thier material and you use your machines pressure system to squeeze them together. My experience has been that the recovered factory rolls don't hold up to the abuse of running together and are prone to breakage. Happened twice here. Also, I like the ability to fine tune the pressure with the air guage on the Circle C system. I can pump it up to whatever pressure I need, and easily release it to zero when not in use to help the rolls maintain thier shape. If it comes down to money only, Circle C is more expensive, but for me it is the better long term choice. Competition in the industry is good however, and I'm sure both companies will continue to fine tune thier products.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

Let me be the first to welcome you to this group. I am sure you will find the advice, that you are looking for.

I run an older New Holland 479 conditioner, mainly because I am to cheap to but a newer one. It does a fair job but I am sure there are better ones. I always hear good things about Krone equipment but I have no experience with them.

One of the biggest things that you can do, if you are going to grow Alfalfa, is to read some of the posts, especially from Hay Wilson. The handling of the hay after you cut it is as important as what you cut it with. Tedding or Raking is extremely important to do when the humidity is high and the moisture content is above 40%. We usually rake in the mornings while the hay is still damp.

I wish you the best of luck, with your hay making.
Sam


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## D_Krone (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for your advices, Sam! Have been studying the web for a couple of weeks now; been through some forums, articles by magazines and researches done by Universities. I've learned a lot about all the things to mind when it comes to hay making. But I like guys like you reminding greenhorns like me not to take it too easy!







*thumbsup*

Also thanks to you, 1Ahaymakr! I've already read some of statements telling that you've made your experiences with both systems I was asking for.



IAhaymakr said:


> My experience has been that the recovered factory rolls don't hold up to the abuse of running together and are prone to breakage. Happened twice here.


By saying that you mean genuine rebuild rolls (like JD; Hesston or whatsoever) won't last not the B&D ones, right?!
So you can't tell any big difference between the rolls of Circle C and B&D themselves? Did you have any trouble about plugging, feeding problems, damages by debris...?


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## IAhaymakr (Jun 4, 2008)

​B&D does not build rolls, they only recover your old rolls, which don't hold up. Other than that they work good.

I have had feeding problems with both rolls in tall weeds.

Foreign material won't damage them any more than factory rolls.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

One of the biggest things that you can do, if you are going to grow Alfalfa, is to read some of the posts, especially from Hay Wilson. The handling of the hay after you cut it is as important as what you cut it with. Tedding or Raking is extremely important to do when the humidity is high and the moisture content is above *40%*. We usually rake in the mornings while the air is still damp.

I wish you the best of luck, with your hay making.
Sam[/QUOTE]

We are talking about nutrition quality of the hay not how pretty it looks.

The first day of curing conditioning has little effect on the dry down, As long as the openings in the leaves are working. A good *30%* of the total moisture will go out through the leaves. To keep the stomata (openings) open and working the hay must be directly exposed to the sun's rays. For this a simple mower will do just fine. This is important because as until the hay moisture is less than *48%* the plant is still breathing and burning energy. 
The second drying phase has the sun directly on the stems  this will heat the sap and create a vapor pressure. This pressure will force moisture out the nearest opening. This is where conditioning comes in. It cracks the stems and moisture can escape there.
(I have seen hay cut with a plain mower and left in a flat open swath cure sooner than conditioned hay that is in a narrow windrow.)

We are told to use the rake or tedder when the hay is more than *40%* moisture. It is no problem understanding that right after mowing the hay will be close to *80%* moisture and we can use a tedder on the hay to spread and fluff up the hay for maximum exposure to the direct rays of the sun. 
The key is direct rays of the sun. With no sun hay will cure very slowly.

We are told to bale hay when the moisture is less than *20%* for small bales, *18%* for round bales, and *14%* for large square bales. This is true for the day light hours.

Now what is seldom mentioned is:
Hay will be at least *40%* moisture, *IF* the humidity down next to the hay is at or above *90%*. 
This tells us we can rake the hay in the morning when the humidity is still high.

Cured hay will be *18% to 20%* moisture if the humidity, down close to the windrow, is 65%. Somewhere close to 55% to 50% relative humidity the hay moisture will be in the *12%* moisture range and leaf shatter will be an issue.

We want the moisture to be in the leaves we do not need or want any moisture in the stems.

I will not confuse the issue with talk of night baling, except to say in some parts of the world the relative humidity seldom goes much above 50% even during the night. Day time humidity can be less than 20%.

I hope this is understandable.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

IAhaymakr said:


> The B&D guys re-cover your old rolls with thier material and you use your machines pressure system to squeeze them together. My experience has been that the recovered factory rolls don't hold up to the abuse of running together and are prone to breakage. Happened twice here. .


I have a question about that. What brand mower were you using that the recovered OEM rollers broke on? I seem to remember seeing in one of these threads somebody had stock JD rollers break that weren't even recovered.

I'm only asking as once upon a time we had hired help running the haybine and the shims came out of the rollers and they ran together most of the season far as we could tell. The hired man said he new they were missing since about 50 acres into first cutting but didn't know what they did and since it still mowed they must not have been that important. Didn't break the rollers but from running together had all kinds of stress cracks around the mounts. This was back in the day when we were still milking cows and had around 500 acres in hay and since we could blow it in the silo, getting 5 cuttings a year wasn't unheard of since weather delays weren't near the problem as trying to bale it all. So I'm guessing it mowed 2000+ acres with the rolls jammed clear together.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

.

I'm only asking as once upon a time we had hired help running the haybine and the shims came out of the rollers and they ran together most of the season far as we could tell. The hired man said he new they were missing since about 50 acres into first cutting but didn't know what they did and since it still mowed they must not have been that important.

Hired HelpKinda same thing here.I was baling in one field and hired man was cutting across the farm 1/2 mile away.When he got to the end and no hay was going thru the crimper the rolls were hitting and I could here it.He never noticed it.The lock nut had came loose on crimper.Wondered how long he would of run it that way???


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> .
> 
> I'm only asking as once upon a time we had hired help running the haybine and the shims came out of the rollers and they ran together most of the season far as we could tell. The hired man said he new they were missing since about 50 acres into first cutting but didn't know what they did and since it still mowed they must not have been that important.
> 
> Hired HelpKinda same thing here.I was baling in one field and hired man was cutting across the farm 1/2 mile away.When he got to the end and no hay was going thru the crimper the rolls were hitting and I could here it.He never noticed it.The lock nut had came loose on crimper.Wondered how long he would of run it that way???


Yup...after we got rid of the milk cows we cut WAY back on hay. I'm slowly adding acreage again as I'm not convinced a decent living can consistently be made from row crops.

I'm only adding what I can make by myself as from the days of milking all those cows I know good help is hard to find and even harder to keep. Even the best of help still may not be willing to put the effort in 100% of the time like I would if I was doing it myself. I'd rather sell quality than quantity any time.


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## D_Krone (Oct 14, 2009)

Has anybody used the newer John Deere steel rolls ("Tri-Lobe" and "V-10") so far?

http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/...of_conditioner_rolls.html?sbu=ag&link=prodcat


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## nwks baler (Jul 18, 2008)

D_Krone said:


> Has anybody used the newer John Deere steel rolls ("Tri-Lobe" and "V-10") so far?
> 
> Choice of conditioner rolls


We are using the V10 conditioner and prefer it over the old steel conditioner. It has performed very well in every crop we have used it in.


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## ont hay producer (Aug 30, 2008)

On what models are the steel rolls ( V-10 and Tri-lobe) available on? I didn't know I could buy a john deere disc-bine with steel conditioning rolls on it.


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## nwks baler (Jul 18, 2008)

ont hay producer said:


> On what models are the steel rolls ( V-10 and Tri-lobe) available on? I didn't know I could buy a john deere disc-bine with steel conditioning rolls on it.


I have the V10 conditioner on a 4995 with a 995 header. You can also get the V10 or the Tri-lobe conditioner on a 900 series pull type. I am not able to use the JD urathane roll conditioner because we windrow to many acre per year and would have to replace them part way thru the season. However I can run the steel conditioner for two seasons, which is when we normally trade machines. I windrow quite a few acres of sorghum sudan and it is really hard on the urathane rolls.


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## D_Krone (Oct 14, 2009)

I found a guy in Australia, who runs the TriLobe rolls on his JD 4995 swather with a 995 head. He seems to be more than satisfied saying that those rolls are the best you can get: great feeding in any crop, outstanding treatment, no wear at all...

Can anybody confirm that? So far he's the only person I've heard of who is using the TriLobe rolls...


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## skincat (Dec 11, 2009)

I would also like to hear from someone using the trilobe conditioner, I am very close to ordering my next machine with them.


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## skincat (Dec 11, 2009)

Some reps. from my dealer went to big hay equipment show and they only had a machine with the V-10 rolls, they asked why did not have the Tri-lob rolls in a machine for demo, they said it would not handle the material that they were cutting, they do a great job but not as fast as most want to cut, and may not handle a wide range of conditions. So I ordered the V-10s.


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

What are the v-10s , Is that steel rollers or are they rubber coated.
THANKS THOMAS


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Thomas, The V-10 rollers are steel with 10 steel flutes that intermesh. The tri-lobe has 3 flutes that intermesh. Both are in a chevron type design. They are touted to be good in legumes and also sorghum-cane type application.Don't know of anyone that runs them but I'm sure some guys on here probably do. You can see them on the JD website on the 900 series mower-conditioners. Mike


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks mike.
THOMAS


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