# Guidance System



## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Who is making the best bang for your buck system??? Would like to stay under $1,500.00


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

For under $1,500, I assume you are wanting a lightbar only? I think the Outback S2 is about the most reasonably priced, but is also not upgrade able.

We upgraded this year to RTK run by an Ag Leader In Command. An all new unit for Ag Leader, so our learning curve is gonna be high.

We may have a used lightbar system in the shop if you're so inclined...


----------



## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

I am interested and so inclined. Please PM me the info.

I see some of the Raven Cruizer II and Trimble EZ Guide 250 

are priced around $1,500 but not sure if they are any good. Oh yes I may have been miss leading on the title. I am looking at just the GPS systems not a full blown auto steer guidance system.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Trimble EasyGuide 250 can be bought for $1150.00 . I have 3 of them nice basic unit .


----------



## Lewis Ranch (Jul 15, 2013)

I have heard great reviews on the Raven cruiser. I had the Trimble ez guide and didn't like it.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

stack em up said:


> For under $1,500, I assume you are wanting a lightbar only? I think the Outback S2 is about the most reasonably priced, but is also not upgrade able.
> We upgraded this year to RTK run by an Ag Leader In Command. An all new unit for Ag Leader, so our learning curve is gonna be high.
> We may have a used lightbar system in the shop if you're so inclined...


I will admit wass signal could be a little more acurate for us , tree lines can be a problem. Do you need a subcription for RTK, if so how much$??.Do you use a base station,and must it be in line of sight of tractor w/ receiver / guidande unit


----------



## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

We have a couple of older outback lightbars. I like em, have never used anything else. One day would like to upgrade to autosteer.

Around here you can buy used lightbars really cheap. A buddy of mine tried to sell me 3 trimble ones for 100 bucks apiece, when I said no he lowered his price to 50 bucks apiece but I didn't need nor want them.


----------



## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

The outback system new is under $1000. Has anyone found an ap for your phone that you could use with a screen for a lightbar? I would think someone could make something like that?


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

danwi said:


> The outback system new is under $1000. Has anyone found an ap for your phone that you could use with a screen for a lightbar? I would think someone could make something like that?


I searched the app store and found some... they work but they also said you really need a tablet for the bigger screen rather than the phone... and of course a steady power source. From what I read, you also need a GPS antenna that plugs into your phone (through one of the existing ports). Not sure how much that runs. Just search for "gps guidance lightbar" in the Play Store on your smart phone it should bring up several such apps. I haven't messed with any yet.

We never had any guidance when we were row cropping but the ol' "Mark 1 eyeball"... My brother in law that I help in Indiana at planting and harvest had a used light bar (early model, don't remember the number) and I kinda played with it drilling beans... but since he was running a 15 foot IH 5200 coulter cart drill at the time behind a Case 1870 I basically drove by sight anyway, since the drill was only about 3 feet wider on each side than the outer duals... I can drive that with no overlap and no skips (to speak of). Later he put me to pulling his 45 foot sprayer and for that I DID need the guidance lightbar, so I had to learn how to use it. Evidently storing it in it's box in the unheated shop over the winter was a little hard on the electronics, because it gave out and couldn't be fixed, so he bought an Easy-Guide 250 to replace it, since it'd work with his existing antenna, which brought the price down to about $800 bucks with a mount. He put me to spraying so I watched the video and studied the 'quick guide' card thoroughly and read the book and got pretty good with it in short order, as he had me spraying all the pre-emerge. Still not 100% clear on how to "log fields" with it, but he wants it for guidance and no spray overlap or skip, not "precision farming" as in needing the fields and applications logged, so he didn't care about the logging stuff anyway. I gotta say, it's a really nice system and works great once you get the hang of it... and if *I* can learn it and do it, ANYBODY can...

I'd love to have even an older system to spray pasture with, but I can't justify the cost of a new one and every time I look on FeeBay or something for one, all I find are high-dollar systems that are as much or nearly as much as a new one. If there's cheap ones out there (used or otherwise) I sure haven't found them...

The basic units like the EZ-guide 250 are basically just lightbars, using WAAS and GPS signals. The signals are free so no "service fee" or whatever, but the accuracy is about 6 inches or so... close enough for most folks (depending on what you're doing). RTK, on the other hand, can get you in the inch or less accuracy, and in all three dimensions (my nephew was running a tile plow for a guy with RTK-- not only did the RTK autosteer the tractor as it plowed in tile, but it also controlled the depth of the tile plow to put the tile in at an even and consistent slope to ensure proper drainage...) BUT, the additional accuracy costs-- RTK systems are EXPENSIVE and require a subscription/fee service for the correction signals that get it down to that level of accuracy. The fee alone I read is several hundred to a thousand bucks or more a year... (depending on location and acres and stuff??) RTK systems can basically run the machine for you... sorta like autopilot on an airplane... (there's an old joke in aviation that avionics are getting SO sophisticated that eventually the plane will only require a pilot and a dog to fly... the pilot's job is to feed the dog-- the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he tries to mess with the plane's controls...) Basically it reduces you to "ride along" status while the computer controls the tractor and implement. I guess it has it's place, but I dunno-- guess I'm old fashioned... course if all you can get to sit in your cabs are brainless warm corpses with no skills or intelligence, rather than a good operator-- well, I guess it's a good thing... I dunno...

Anyway, that's been my experience...

Later and good luck! OL J R


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I thought about buying the Trimble e z 250 but I was afraid the the screen at only 4.5" would be too small.....what does everyone familiar with them think?

Regards, Mike


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

endrow said:


> I will admit wass signal could be a little more acurate for us , tree lines can be a problem. Do you need a subcription for RTK, if so how much$??.Do you use a base station,and must it be in line of sight of tractor w/ receiver / guidande unit


Do you use the basic patch antenna or do use the upgrade AG-15 antenna?

Regards, Mike


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

stack em up said:


> We upgraded this year to RTK run by an Ag Leader In Command. An all new unit for Ag Leader, so our learning curve is gonna be high. ...


I did the same for the planter tractor.And with the step down unit for the tillage tractor.

Hopefully the learning curve isn't to bad,for me and the help.

I wasn't going to get it for the tillage tractor but the help was overlapping 5-6' working ground.Another guy I had a few yrs back would skip a ft at times and would end up with a strip of weeds.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

swmnhay said:


> I did the same for the planter tractor.And with the step down unit for the tillage tractor.
> Hopefully the learning curve isn't to bad,for me and the help.
> .


You'll be fine, you're a lot smarter than I am!


----------



## pede58 (Oct 27, 2015)

I run the Outback and love it for spraying with my UTV, use the no cost waas and my understanding the more satellites you pick up the more accurate you are, I usually catch 8-10. Now the downside and even though it has conture, it doesn't work very well, but straight line it's spot on. Cost new was less then $800.


----------



## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree, contour mode is about useless. I only use the straight guidance. Find it quite accurate. I do usually set a 12 inch overlap on the 70ft sprayer. Could maybe get by with less overlap but I don't want skips.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

IHCman said:


> I agree, contour mode is about useless. I only use the straight guidance. Find it quite accurate. I do usually set a 12 inch overlap on the 70ft sprayer. Could maybe get by with less overlap but I don't want skips.


 if I couldn't get the Contour to work there wouldn't be much use me turning it on


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

endrow said:


> I will admit wass signal could be a little more acurate for us , tree lines can be a problem. Do you need a subcription for RTK, if so how much$??.Do you use a base station,and must it be in line of sight of tractor w/ receiver / guidande unit


Yes, you do use a base station. I don't actually know much about it yet as ours hasn't shown up. Supposed to be here last Tuesday.

RTK subscription is about $1000/year, I'll know more when I get all of our boxes...


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> I did the same for the planter tractor.And with the step down unit for the tillage tractor.
> Hopefully the learning curve isn't to bad,for me and the help.
> I wasn't going to get it for the tillage tractor but the help was overlapping 5-6' working ground.Another guy I had a few yrs back would skip a ft at times and would end up with a strip of weeds.


 is there anything in place for tilt compensation on the tractor, because without that if the tractor tilt a half a degree you are 4 inches off


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> I thought about buying the Trimble e z 250 but I was afraid the the screen at only 4.5" would be too small.....what does everyone familiar with them think?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Don't get a small screened one, Dad picked up a used Raven with the itty bitty screen, a real pain to use. I have the Trimble CFX750 with the auto steer. Using GPS and Waas, have planted beans with both the auto steer engaged and using the marker arms to see how close the auto steer actually was given I didn't have a subscription to RTK. With good satellite signals and Waas I only use the marker arms to plant the endrows then they stay folded up till the field is done. Planting 30 foot wide with soybeans, when planting around trees or other obstructions I find it easier to use the marker arms and plant old school and just disengage the auto steer while doing that.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I should add with the Trimble when we spray we are using a 60 foot boom and the auto steer is set at 60 foot and streaks have never been a problem unless it was a ID 10 T error behind the steering wheel.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

endrow said:


> is there anything in place for tilt compensation on the tractor, because without that if the tractor tilt a half a degree you are 4 inches off


There is supposed to be something in it but I dont know how well it works yet.It was just installed couple weeks ago.I have a field with some extreme sidehills on a part of it so I will find out.Useing the marker on those spots I had to go uphill 18" of the mark to compinsate.Fortunatly its only a small area of the field.

I need to watch the DVD one of these days that came with it.


----------



## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

We went through the search a couple of years ago. From Hay Talk recommendations we chose the Raven Cruizer ii. Bought it from Riggins Ag's eBay store. Since I'm the (barely) computer person and Jeff does all the tractor/truck work that uses the GPS it was a real learning experience. For most of the learning curve Jeff did not like it at all . . . then as he learned more about using it and we upgraded from a patch antenna to the helix he really likes it. With our tree lines and hills and combinations thereof a lot of time the signal was lost with the patch antenna, helix fixed that. Just ordered (from Riggins) the cable to add an external switch so the coverage mapping can be turned on/off with a switch instead of him using the touch screen bouncing across the fields.

Shelia


----------



## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I use an outback S-2 on my planter (I can get within an inch) and my 45' spray boom....money well spent...... and I''m a tech idiot ! The first one I had I had a problem , Outback sent me a paid shipping overnite label and overnighted it back the next day repaired ! To me a company standing behind it's product is #1.....When I buy something like that I call up and act like I own one with a "it just quit" problem and see how far they will go.....it works ! Keep that in mind.....


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Tater Salad said:


> I use an outback S-2 on my planter (I can get within an inch) and my 45' spray boom....money well spent...... and I''m a tech idiot ! The first one I had I had a problem , Outback sent me a paid shipping overnite label and overnighted it back the next day repaired ! To me a company standing behind it's product is #1.....When I buy something like that I call up and act like I own one with a "it just quit" problem and see how far they will go.....it works ! Keep that in mind.....


I will question however the 1" accuracy there Tater. WAAS is too unreliable for that kind of consistent accuracy, although it can happen from time to time. Satellites move too much for long term dependability on something such as planting. When I bought our first EzSteer 500, I was using it for planting a square 80. Worked pretty well, off a bit. Stopped to fill seed, so maybe 15 minutes. Correction was unobtainable due to the AB line had move almost 4' to the left.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

stack em up said:


> I will question however the 1" accuracy there Tater. WAAS is too unreliable for that kind of consistent accuracy, although it can happen from time to time. Satellites move too much for long term dependability on something such as planting. When I bought our first EzSteer 500, I was using it for planting a square 80. Worked pretty well, off a bit. Stopped to fill seed, so maybe 15 minutes. Correction was unobtainable due to the AB line had move almost 4' to the left.


I've had that on more than one occasion, spray an 80 or 120 acre field, then out of curiosity when done go along the tree line or road and if the auto steer was on I would have peeled a boom right off the sprayer.

If a person wants repeatable accuracy even an hour later an RTK signal is a must.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

RockyHill said:


> We went through the search a couple of years ago. From Hay Talk recommendations we chose the Raven Cruizer ii. Bought it from Riggins Ag's eBay store. Since I'm the (barely) computer person and Jeff does all the tractor/truck work that uses the GPS it was a real learning experience. For most of the learning curve Jeff did not like it at all . . . then as he learned more about using it and we upgraded from a patch antenna to the helix he really likes it. With our tree lines and hills and combinations thereof a lot of time the signal was lost with the patch antenna, helix fixed that. Just ordered (from Riggins) the cable to add an external switch so the coverage mapping can be turned on/off with a switch instead of him using the touch screen bouncing across the fields.
> 
> Shelia


Same here. I bought the Raven Cruzer 2 in January. I watched the online YT videos on some of the options and got familiar with it.

Then I put the magnetic helix antenna on my farm truck, stuck the monitor on the windshield and pretended to spray or fertilize different fields. I practiced changing the settings from a 50 foot sprayer to a 35 foot fertilized buggy. That really helped. I have played with the different settings and views and went from wondering if I had wasted money, to wondering how I ever got along with out it.

I have been fertilizing my ryegrass pastures and no longer have that lost feeling I sometimes got when I could not find my previous tracks after a turn.

I have outlined all of my hay fields and pastures, saved the to jump drives and they automatically transfer to Google Earth.

Mine cost $1557. Bought it off the internet from a tractor place in Missouri.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

For spraying my hay fields my GreenStar lightbar (waas) works very well......upgraded from foam. Bought mine used on eBay for $600.....magnetic base, only on the tractor when I'm spraying.

Been thinking of adding a screen (1800) for field mapping.....kinda pricey just for field mapping tho


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I am more confused now on what brand to buy....endrow has got me concerned with the tilt deal.....there ain't but about two fields that don't tilt....I wonder if they make software that would take land roll into consideration without buying subscription service?

Regards, Mike


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Saw this thread..

Regards, Mike

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=205467&DisplayType=flat&setCookie=1

Guess I found my own answer as Raven tilt module runs about $575.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> I am more confused now on what brand to buy....endrow has got me concerned with the tilt deal.....there ain't but about two fields that don't tilt....I wonder if they make software that would take land roll into consideration without buying subscription service?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Yes they do, it's more hardware though for tilt.

Even our old lightbars had an option to add a tilt sensor to em.

On our auto steer the tilt and yaw sensor is part of the package for the autosteer, not sure if something could be had just for tilt or not and at what cost.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Read the link Vol posted, one thing I found about our lightbars, its easiest to stay on the mark if you just place the antenna on the nose of the tractor and let everything else follow. With the auto steer I actually place the antenna as close to possible to the planter when planting with a FWA tractor, when using an articulated it seems to work best if you can place the antennae right over the front axle.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> I am more confused now on what brand to buy....endrow has got me concerned with the tilt deal.....there ain't but about two fields that don't tilt....I wonder if they make software that would take land roll into consideration without buying subscription service?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Didn't get the tilt sensor with my Teejet (not recommended). I can be as much as 2' (that feet, not inches!) off going across a hillside. Saving my nickels and dimes to get one, but I need corn prices to go up a little (maybe a lot) more.

Unless you're in a flat state, don't leave the shed without a tilt sensor.

Ralph


----------



## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Ralph,

I also use a TeeJet and I have much more to learn about how not to have slips when spraying or drilling winter pasture rye and ryegrass.

Can you tell me how to avoid these skips. I set the spray pattern at the boom width of 21 ft on the 3-point hitch mounted sprayer and the pass at 19 ft, the receiver is on top of the cab, and I set the gps to paint the passes. I can't rely on the painting patterns to avoid skips. Where should the receiver be located? What do you go by on the monitor to avoid skips?

Vincent


----------



## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Vol said:


> I thought about buying the Trimble e z 250 but I was afraid the the screen at only 4.5" would be too small.....what does everyone familiar with them think?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Oh, read that wrong... yeah, 4.5 is kinda small... the 7-8 inch screen works much better...

Later! OL J R


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

vhaby said:


> Ralph,
> 
> I also use a TeeJet and I have much more to learn about how not to have slips when spraying or drilling winter pasture rye and ryegrass.
> 
> ...


When going across a hillside, I use seat-of-the-pants guesstimates to judge how much I should adjust to avoid skip. Since I mostly spray 2,4D and glyphosate, I don't worry too much about overlapping a little.

Ralph


----------



## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Just a guess here because I don't know jack sh!t about this but wouldn't mounting the antenna as low as possible help to reduce the tilt problem? Seem that is it was only 2' or 3' above the ground instead of 10' would be better as far as how much it is off from the tilting of the tractor. Just thinking out loud here at my day job.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

rajela said:


> Just a guess here because I don't know jack sh!t about this but wouldn't mounting the antenna as low as possible help to reduce the tilt problem? Seem that is it was only 2' or 3' above the ground instead of 10' would be better as far as how much it is off from the tilting of the tractor. Just thinking out loud here at my day job.


No, because it needs to have clear access to open sky.


----------



## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

I have 3 SatLoc units out of spray planes , big light bar easy to see and watch, simple black box to set up . Checkwith a aircraft gps shop you might be able to find some cheap bargins ?


----------

