# Concrete for barn floor question again.



## BCFENCE

Ive searched the posts here and really didnt find a straight awnser for using concrete for my hay barn floor. If my concrete does not sweat will my small square bales keep and not mold. I hate to use rock and im not going to fight the pallets. Ive got rubber tracks on my skidsteer and the concrete would be great if the hay would keep.
Thanks for any help.


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## Rodney R

I think that it will go bad for you. It might be worth the effort to find a bedding chopper and chop some straw, spread that thin on the floor (I know the skid steer will make piles, but your foot can take care of that), and then maybe spray it with proprionic acid just before you set the hay on it. And maybe the acid will be enough? I think you're going to have to do some 'testing'. I will know more in a few months - we've got one shed with a concrete floor, one with asphalt, and both have about 1-2 inches of sawdust on them, and I sprayed acid just before the hay was set on them. I had used a special pallet in the past and had few problems, I hope this method results in less problems!

Rodney


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## BCFENCE

Rodney my thinking is if i put plastic down before i pour my cement i know the floor wont sweat, Thats what i was worried about, But like some people have said is the moisture comes from the hay down, If thats the case the hay will mold unless the cement is dry enough to pull the moisture out. I know im throwing alot out their but im trying to weigh several possibilities.


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## piper

i had a few bales on the concrete floor after a camping trip in less than a weak all that were on the floor were moldy. don't rember if i had plastic under the concrete or not.


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## LaneFarms

BCfence I am faced with the same problem right now. I am wondering if asphalt with plastic under it would keep moisture from coming up through it.


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## jfleace

I have a barn with an older concrete floor. I don't believe it has plastic under the concrete. The bottom bales won't keep without putting them on pallets.


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## Production Acres

View attachment 931
View attachment 932


If your concrete is sealed and you have no moisture coming in from the ground, you will not have any trouble with bone dry hay or hay that has already cured. Fresh hay coming out of the field will give you trouble.

1st year we tried no pallets - bottom layer molded
2nd year we tried 1 pallet - bottom layer molded
3rd year we tried spraying the floor with clorox and proponic acid and one pallet - mold
4th year we went to 2 pallets - only bad bales mold now! rest of hay looks good.

after about a month, you can stack the hay on concrete with no pallet, but not at first.


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## mlappin

Years ago when we still made small squares if it wasn't going in the mow and would be stacked on a concrete floor we'd spread around 6" of ground cobs on the floor first and stack on that. Usually the bottom bales kept fairly well, any bad ones were fed to the beef cows. Regardless of how you seal the floor, concrete or asphalt the moisture in the bale that leaves it has to go somewhere.


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## Rodney R

BC,
We had cemented the floor in the one shed years ago, and put plastic under it. That floor was dry as a bone. I spread some dry sawdust on it, and then used a pallet, and the hay that came out of that shed had more spoilage than the same treatment on a dirt floor with plastic. I put an awful lot of faith in the locals around here this year, we'll see how it goes. It looks like the asphalt floor will be alright. I moved some hay that had been on there for a few weeks (just set on the floor, and it had and inch or so of sawdust on it), and that hay was perfect on the bottom. I hope I can say that 10 months from now. We have to keep hay until we make new hay - The last load of 2009 timothy was delivered the day before we made the first of the 2010 crop. We'll see..... You have to ask again, cause I'll forget....  Are you cementing a floor right now?

Rodney


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## BCFENCE

Rodney R said:


> BC,
> We had cemented the floor in the one shed years ago, and put plastic under it. That floor was dry as a bone. I spread some dry sawdust on it, and then used a pallet, and the hay that came out of that shed had more spoilage than the same treatment on a dirt floor with plastic. I put an awful lot of faith in the locals around here this year, we'll see how it goes. It looks like the asphalt floor will be alright. I moved some hay that had been on there for a few weeks (just set on the floor, and it had and inch or so of sawdust on it), and that hay was perfect on the bottom. I hope I can say that 10 months from now. We have to keep hay until we make new hay - The last load of 2009 timothy was delivered the day before we made the first of the 2010 crop. We'll see..... You have to ask again, cause I'll forget....  Are you cementing a floor right now?
> 
> Rodney


Not right now rodney but im making plans to start a building maybe this winter into spring.


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## Rodney R

My gut tells me that asphalt is going to do better for us, but I don't know for sure yet, I'll know for sure by winter. If the hay was going to go bad on our floor, it is by now, but I haven't hauled anything yet, which is why I don't know. It was real dry here, but either all the horses died or the pastures have been irrigated, cause the phone hasn't been ringing, at all.

Rodney


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## Robin Craig

We tried 6 mil poly with loose straw on top last year over top of a limestone floor, it is mixed 7/8" with fines.

The bales stayed very dry. The only problem is we got an infestaton this spring of Chiggers or straw mites which is an experience I dont ever want to repeat. This year we are using 6 mil poly only.

Robin


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## Rodney R

BC,
I have my update ready.... We had one corner of this building that was wet all the time - the sawdust on the floor would rot, and the pallets would sink in the dirt. Now we did put a LOT of crushed stone under the asphalt, we did re-use the sawdust that was dry, and set the hay right on top of it, after spraying proprionic acid right before we would set a stack down. I had 2nd cut orchardgrass in this area, and the bales came out 99% perfect. I had no discoloring, and the sawdust didn't have enough moisture in it to stick to the bales. The rest of the shed is acting the same way. I think that asphalt is the way to go, and that is what kind of floor will be in the next one.

Rodney


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## cdhayman

things certainly are different for different sides of the country, we have extremely dry air.we can put fresh hay down on cement and never have a problem. we do however use alot of pallets in case water runs in. and it is no small amount of pallets. we have done the straw on the ground, and pallets are easier for us to deal with


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## MikeRF

Rodney R said:


> BC,
> I have my update ready.... We had one corner of this building that was wet all the time - the sawdust on the floor would rot, and the pallets would sink in the dirt. Now we did put a LOT of crushed stone under the asphalt, we did re-use the sawdust that was dry, and set the hay right on top of it, after spraying proprionic acid right before we would set a stack down. I had 2nd cut orchardgrass in this area, and the bales came out 99% perfect. I had no discoloring, and the sawdust didn't have enough moisture in it to stick to the bales. The rest of the shed is acting the same way. I think that asphalt is the way to go, and that is what kind of floor will be in the next one.
> 
> Rodney


Rodney - Do you think that you need the shavings and propionic acid on top of the asphalt or could you do without if the hay was dry. 
We use 2 layers of bunker wall plastic on a gravel base which works great for the majority. The only time we may have an issue is with a batch that was borderline dry that the acid is working well on. In that circumstance we often do get problems with bottom bales.
However the plastic is expensive and I hate the time it takes to lay when unloading hay (we have learnt the hard way that you can't reuse plastic a second time). Have been considering aspalt for a while now in our 60x180.


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## BCFENCE

Rodney
Thanks for the input. Ill tell ya what im going to do and tell me if im crazy. I plan on building a 50x100 with a 18ft ceiling , with 2 30 ft sheds on each side. Im planning on putting a concrete floor with knee walls and footers around 3 sides. I plan on trying to get it empty by september so i can fill it with my feeder calves till jan. I then want to buy another group of feeders to carry me till spring, then clean out good and fill with hay. The sheds will be used for roll hay storage and equipment storage. Im going to build thsi myself so does this sound like it will work or am i crazy. Im thinking i can background some cattle to help pay for it . One of the sheds will be open all the way around 3 sides and the next shed will be open only to the east just like the main barn.


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## Rodney R

Mike,
I am not sure about the sawdust or the acid. I think that we could do without the acid if the hay was dry. I'm not sure if it helps when the hay is wet. I will be doing more experimenting this summer. We used to use plastic over plain ole dirt - we had put down a layer of sawdust to act as a buffer so the plastic wouldn't get holes from any stones. That worked well. I'd like to substitute hay/straw chaff for the sawdust to cut down on the amount of dust - another project I have.

BC - sounds to me like it'll work. You have to know the weather conditions, and if open sides will work for you. And if you can get the shed empty soon enough - We have to store the hay all year, till we make new hay in spring. Will the humidity from the animals carry into the shed at all? I have no idea. Maybe a few weeks of being empty will be enough?

Rodney


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## MikeRF

Rodney R said:


> Mike,
> I am not sure about the sawdust or the acid. I think that we could do without the acid if the hay was dry. I'm not sure if it helps when the hay is wet. I will be doing more experimenting this summer. We used to use plastic over plain ole dirt - we had put down a layer of sawdust to act as a buffer so the plastic wouldn't get holes from any stones. That worked well. I'd like to substitute hay/straw chaff for the sawdust to cut down on the amount of dust - another project I have.
> 
> BC - sounds to me like it'll work. You have to know the weather conditions, and if open sides will work for you. And if you can get the shed empty soon enough - We have to store the hay all year, till we make new hay in spring. Will the humidity from the animals carry into the shed at all? I have no idea. Maybe a few weeks of being empty will be enough?
> 
> Rodney


Rodney
Do you mind giving us a cost per square foot for the asphalt?
Mike


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## Rodney R

Mike,
I don't have the actual numbers in front of me, but this shed was 120x55 (I think I have that right). We figured that the site prep (digout and stone) would be the same for both. As it was being dug out, we were still deciding whchway to go - concrete or asphalt...... The concrete would have been MUCH more expensive, since we would have had to hire the forming and such done (not enough time on our part), so asphalt was clearly going to be cheaper. The digout and stone was done by one guy, and asphalt was laid by another, about a week later in a few hours. I think the total job came in at about $3 per square foot. I'm not 100% certain on my figures, but it ought to be inside the ballpark.

Rodney


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## enos

Rodney, try a patch next year with nothing on it but a bit of hay chaff, works in my barn. Asphalt is about the only way to go here.


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## expensive hobby

has anybody ever tried using indusrial conveyor belting from a quarry or other?


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## MikeRF

expensive hobby said:


> has anybody ever tried using indusrial conveyor belting from a quarry or other?


Never tried it but I would suspect moisture would wick up through the cracks unless you sealed the edges somehow. Failing that you would still have to put something on top.


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## stan223

i have tried all sorts of things but not pallets haha but any my floor is concrete i have a vapor barrier under the concrete i get lots of mold in hay but not in straw i believe it is the moister leaving the bale i bale small squares i have put a first row of straw bales and every thing above the straw keeps i have broke open the straw and spread maybe 6 inches of straw and it dont seem to help the hay i am building a new barn 100 x 150 and i plan to leave it gravel ive not stacked on gravel i plan to just feed the bottom row to beef but i am worried about stones stuck into the hay any thoughts hope i didnt miss this earlier in the thread


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## Hayboy1

I came across this stuff a while back, I wonder how this would work?

PolyPavement: Natural Soil Pavement - Liquid Soil Solidifier


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## mlappin

I've seen that before. I wonder how well it would hold up in the spring when the top foot of ground is floating on water as the ground is still froze under it?

We've been dumping semi loads of rock in these drives at the home farm for the last forty years. Come spring when there is still frost in the ground, the top actually floats on water. I already have had places this year when just walking on it you can feel the ground move. I place a round bale on the worst spots so nobody drives on it and breaks thru. The insides of my buildings do the same but are the last place to do so. I usually load hay out at the crack of dawn while the top is still stiff from the frost overnight.


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## wbstofer

Ok guys... So my building is going up next week. I have had a gravel pad 6" minimum thick on the site for a year. What do I want for a floor in northern Indiana so my hay doesn't spoil? My other barn has 60 yr old concrete and I use 1 pallet without spoilage.

Thanks!


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## MikeRF

If you have a bit of 2-3 bucks per square foot left over try putting down asphalt. The guys that have done it seem to suggest it is the way to go. 
Then you can throw all those skids and plastic away!!


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## wbstofer

So...who has tried asphalt? How thick does it need to be? Plastic under it? Why is it special? Does it breathe better than concrete? Does it need a limestone base?

Thanks-
Bill


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Bill, I think the whole thing in a nutshell is that the oil in the asphalt keeps any moisture from penetrating up into the bottom layer of hay. Moisture from the soil .


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## BCFENCE

wbstofer said:


> So...who has tried asphalt? How thick does it need to be? Plastic under it? Why is it special? Does it breathe better than concrete? Does it need a limestone base?
> 
> Thanks-
> Bill


I think rodney has but dont hold me to it.


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## Rodney R

Bill,
Go back to the beginning of this thread. I think that our base was around 18 inches. Maybe it's too much, but you only have one chance to get it right. Our asphalt is around 4 inches thick, and it's mostly the bigger type stones. Water will go right down through it, but the moisture from the ground should not come up, due to the oil. The only moisture should be the stuff that 'falls' out of the hay. We had no trouble this year. Enos (also on here) has a shed that's asphalt, and he uses nothing on the floor. I think the plastic (vapor barrier) is not needed, and it would have to be put down before any stones. I think the asphalt is better than concrete, but I would question wether your base is thick enough. There are several threads on here about shed floors, the search feature should be able to find them. I know that several did talk about asphalt floors.

Rodney


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## MikeRF

This could be of interest for anyone considering paving their barn
Hay, buildings and vehicles stay clean, says grower | Asphalt's Advantages


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## NDVA HAYMAN

Thanks for that article Mike. Been waiting for a couple of the guys that tried it on the forum to give their report. Best, Mike


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## HayMike

I used 3" of asphalt over about 10" of well compacted recycled concrete #304, installed May 2011. Here in Ohio we had the wettest year on record, and haven't lost a single bale.


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## weatherman

I don't have concrete in my barns, 411 compacted stone. I put down a thick plastic to keep the moisture from wicking up and pallets on top. Pallets are a pain but I don't have any mold problems. I would say that same application on a concrete floor should work.


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