# Another hay buyer rant



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

So I baled some prewashed alfalfa hay yesterday. Prewashed several times in fact. Washed to a nice brown color. I baled it just to get it off the field. Since the new alfalfa was about 5 inches tall I got alot of the new alfalfa into the bales which throws off moisture tests. I put it for sale on craigslist for $45 a bale for 900 lb bales. Already I'm getting e-mails from the people that expect perfection for cheap. I even have on the ad that this is not excellent hay. If it was it would be in my barn and for sale for $90/bale. Cheapskates! Don't they know you always get what you pay for. Especially in hay! That is all.


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Unlike washing clothes, hay don't get better.....lol Brown isn't all that bad, it does come out brown after all...... Think I'd put in the ad...'prewashed hay, already brown so your animals don't have to 'color' it.....

How about a haymaker rant...

I can't even get out to cut anything let alone get it washed, heck with CL, nothing to list, nothing in the barn......


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I should have waited. Took bad advice from my dad. It was forecast to have bad hail. So cut alfalfa weathers hail better then standing. Then it did nothing. But then 2 days later it rained 1.5 inches. Then 2 days after that another inch. Thinking good weather I Tedded it. But then heavy fog and sprinkles. So finally yesterday it was sorta dry enough so just to get it done I baled it with less then ideal moisture. I shoulda waited til this week to cut it.


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

In as much as we are getting your weather (about a week later) that should mean that next week, it might dry out enough to 'consider' driving in the fields in 2wd.

We even got the hail.

here, it's shaping up to be a one cut season....maybe.


----------



## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I layed some hay down last Thursday and baled last night. One field was perfect moisture at 14 to 15 % ,the other was 24 to 28. These fields are side by side.
Rain coming in today and I will have alot of pre washed for sale. . . Again.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

I had a customer call that wanted two round bales of hay that were "ready to feed". She didn't want this years hay because it was too soon to feed it. She wouldn't buy from me cause all I had was this years hay. She went in search of last years hay that is ready to feed.....I probably didn't want that customer either way...


----------



## haygrl59 (May 19, 2014)

Those cheapskates are everywhere. We have them here in the central Midwest. I gave a lady the grand tour of our hay barn and she complained and picked through it all. The nice alfalfa-grass mix is selling for $5-$6/bale and they're 50 lb. small squares. I do believe she may be back because she has picked and complained about her local hay people even though they do it on the side and we do hay full-time. I've told several customers this: "Keep in mind that quality and bargains are rarely found together!"

We got caught with the rainy weather too. Had some nice alfalfa down but it was too humid to bale and then got several inches of rain. Going to have a guy chop it up and blow it around. Too bad, because it was really nice-looking stuff. The rain and humidity has been our worse foes so far.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Seems like most of us are experiencing that kind of weather this year. We have had two haymaking stretches, memorial day weekend (which if you believed the forecast on Memorial Thursday you would not have cut) turned out to be a perfect 5 day window but I missed it as I was sick. Then we had a 4 day window last week. Other than that, none this year. Rest of this week shot, maybe a chance next week but it will likely get showered on and then it is after the 1st of July and we are still fairly early in first cutting for many.

Weather pattern sunny day, cloudy day with oppressive humidity, showers more clouds and humidity and virtually no wind. Looks to be a long summer. At least we aren't like Ralph, some decent hay has been made here. Feeding early, end of April, first cut orchard which is beautiful but I have to check every bale to look for mold. bummer.


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Last year I got left with about 5,000 idiot cubes because the buyer lined up went elsewhere at the last moment and I was unable to quit the numbers on hand.

Advertised them as 2013 cut at $5 whereas 2014 cut fetches $8 upward.

This hay was bundled and shredded the day it was baled.

Basically still perfect. Open the bundles and still green and sweet smelling

Many buyers acted as if I was trying to molest them when I mentioned it to them.

One running an agistment centre was complaining about his then current supplier. Eventually he agreed to take a 50/50 delivery of 2013 and 2014 cut.

On delivery he looked at my 2013 hay and opined it was better than the 2014 rubbish another had supplied him.

He became a convert and now complains that I do not have enough 2013 left to supply him for the rest of the season.

Ya can't win!


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

PaMike said:


> I had a customer call that wanted two round bales of hay that were "ready to feed". She didn't want this years hay because it was too soon to feed it. She wouldn't buy from me cause all I had was this years hay. She went in search of last years hay that is ready to feed.....I probably didn't want that customer either way...


I fail to understand? To early to feed 2015 hay? Does good hay need to age like wine and cheese.


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Lostin55 said:


> I layed some hay down last Thursday and baled last night. One field was perfect moisture at 14 to 15 % ,the other was 24 to 28. These fields are side by side.
> Rain coming in today and I will have alot of pre washed for sale. . . Again.


Yes we are expecting rain this evening as well. Thankfully I've gotten all our grass hay baled without rain so far. One more field to go.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> I fail to understand? To early to feed 2015 hay? Does good hay need to age like wine and cheese.


I've heard that from a few horsey people, needs to "cure" any where from 10 days to a month after cutting before it can be fed to hay burners.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> I've heard that from a few horsey people, needs to "cure" any where from 10 days to a month after cutting before it can be fed to hay burners.


That is my understanding also, The bacteria that causes heat/sweat can also cause colic. Unlike a cow's, hay is only in a horse's stomach for 2-3 hours before it passes into the intestines. The stomach juices don't have an opportunity to kill the bacteria, which then causes gas, which, in turn, causes colic.

Ralph


----------



## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

For some reason we can feed new hay directly to our sheep with no problems, but if we feed freshly baled hay to our goats (Boer goats) they get diarrhea, especially the younger ones (even though we ease them on to it over a week).

We usually let our hay sweat it out a couple weeks before starting to feed it.


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

mlappin said:


> I've heard that from a few horsey people, needs to "cure" any where from 10 days to a month after cutting before it can be fed to hay burners.


Might be better to eat them rather that have them... Forgot, only in Canada.


----------



## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

rjmoses said:


> That is my understanding also, The bacteria that causes heat/sweat can also cause colic. Unlike a cow's, hay is only in a horse's stomach for 2-3 hours before it passes into the intestines. The stomach juices don't have an opportunity to kill the bacteria, which then causes gas, which, in turn, causes colic.
> 
> Ralph


Wow I guess I abused my ole horse heard back when I was a kid feeding them fresh cut and baled hay, the seemed to enjoy and thrive on it guess they just didn't know any better must have gotten some of them stupid horses.....lol


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Teslan said:


> I fail to understand? To early to feed 2015 hay? Does good hay need to age like wine and cheese.


Some old horse people think same year hay is too rich for horses. It's wrong, but that's how they used to think


----------



## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Trillium Farm said:


> Some old horse people think same year hay is too rich for horses. It's wrong, but that's how they used to think


Then there are some that only want to feed second cutting. ....


----------



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I dont like to sell my hay until about a week after baling to let it sweat some and make sure it doesn't heat or anything but not wanting to feed 2015 hay yet seems crazy. There should be plenty of hay that has already gone through the sweat and is fully cured out.

It's been a while since I have had any hay left over from a previous year but I don't discount hay because it is from the previous year. I don't see any reason to discount it since it's still just as good. In fact I don't even mention the fact that it is left over from a previous year unless directly asked that.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Trillium Farm said:


> Some old horse people think same year hay is too rich for horses. It's wrong, but that's how they used to think


At lot, some correctly/some old wives tales, of this comes from when horses where used for farming and transportation.

Many draft horses would "tie up" in the hind quarters on Monday morning after having Sunday off work and still being fed a rich diet, like good quality alfalfa. Tying up is like severe muscle spasms in the hindquarters and can be caused by vitamin or mineral deficiency. The richer feed and lack of balanced diet was too much for their system to handle.

Horses are designed to graze low quality/high variety forage, but lots of it! They can eat as much as 20 hours/day and process about 15-20 lbs/day.

Ralph


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Few horses are as fussy as their owners.

You would think the owners are eating the hay and expect gourmet dining with 5 star service.

When hay is very scarce it never ceases to amaze me the rubbish even dry mouldy hay horses are able to eat, and do well. Particularly as in every other time there are doomsayers predicting the end of every equine life for miles around if there is even a hint of mould.

Like a lot of things.... the animal is not the problem!


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

rjmoses said:


> At lot, some correctly/some old wives tales, of this comes from when horses where used for farming and transportation.
> 
> Many draft horses would "tie up" in the hind quarters on Monday morning after having Sunday off work and still being fed a rich diet, like good quality alfalfa. Tying up is like severe muscle spasms in the hindquarters and can be caused by vitamin or mineral deficiency. The richer feed and lack of balanced diet was too much for their system to handle.
> 
> ...


Yes they used to call it "Monday morning sickness" We have come a long way in equine nutrition.

I absolutely agree with you that horses are designed for grazing a variety of forage from low to medium energy. Some studies have shown that horses will ingest up to 40lbs of wet forage a day, cows 60lbs. In winter mine used to go through a bale a day each.


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Coondle-couldn't agree more.

Just remembering when I was a kid helping dad and neighbors do hay with sickle bars and old style side delivery rakes, a rolabar if you were well off, hay was nearly always bleached out, took 5-6 days to make, normally got wet at least once yada, yada, and somehow, all was eaten and the animals all lived. Now if I project that back to the days of horse drawn stuff which I did not experience, probably even worse quality but those animals all ate and worked. Tedder? heck, we had no idea what one of them was.

Now I know that the purists are going to howl about how race horses need more energy etc, but they are getting excessive amounts of grain and supplements and I suppose in many cases, the hay forage is largely roughage and contentment to chew constantly. It is only the owners that think their horse will only eat sweet smelling green hay. The horse probably knows that there is a far better chance of getting gas colic from that hay than the owner does. Now who is the smartest?


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Gas colic is a given and all horses will get it. 99% of the time the horse gets rid of it by walking, old timers new this and the size of stall they built were huge 20x20 and even bigger. I built mine 15x15 and people thought they were enormous, some of my foaling stalls were even bigger.

Never hag gas colic problems, I'm sure the animals must have had bouts of it occasionally, but due to the size of the stalls were able to walk it off.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Trillium Farm said:


> Gas colic is a given and all horses will get it. 99% of the time the horse gets rid of it by walking, old timers new this and the size of stall they built were huge 20x20 and even bigger. I built mine 15x15 and people thought they were enormous, some of my foaling stalls were even bigger.
> 
> Never hag gas colic problems, I'm sure the animals must have had bouts of it occasionally, but due to the size of the stalls were able to walk it off.


While I've only had one case of colic in my horses in 30+ years, I've helped others with colic problem---Fastest cure for colic--Load them in a trailer, take them for a 15-20 minute ride--never had it fail.

Ralph


----------



## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

rjmoses said:


> While I've only had one case of colic in my horses in 30+ years, I've helped others with colic problem---Fastest cure for colic--Load them in a trailer, take them for a 15-20 minute ride--never had it fail.


Kinda like taking the baby for ride to get them to sleep when all else fails lol


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

One problem I see with horse owners. People move to the country and want a horse. But have a limited budget. So they buy someone cull horse. Old sickly type of animal. An animal that does have lots of special needs.

Its just like if somebody was buying all my cull cows and trying to make a good herd out of them. Hello they are not good. There is a reason why I culled them. And its not the feed that is making them bad.


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

According Wikipedia:

"Thoroughbred racehorses perform with maximum exertion, which has resulted in high accident rates and health problems such as bleeding from the lungs. Other health concerns include low fertility, abnormally small hearts and a small hoof-to-body-mass ratio. There are several theories for the reasons behind the prevalence of accidents and health problems in the Thoroughbred breed, and research is ongoing."

As many of you would know, thoroughbreds are said to be all descended from just 3 stallions, and some ascribe the foundation of the breed to only one stallion!

I reckon that I do not have to do much research to find the problem:

Surely with such a low genetic base, inbreeding must be some sort of issue in the history of this horse breed from at most 350 or so years ago.

I could not see any other animal industry relying on such a small gene pool to be the foundation of a breed and then have such rigid rules of breeding.

Other horses are much better doers and can survive in very harsh conditions including herds of wild horses in parts of Australia's outback from mountain areas (just hills by your standards) to deserts. Horses of this folk when fed a diet of high quality and not exercised are prone to founder or laminitis.

How to prevent this is easy

Do not overfeed either quantity or most important quality kept sugar intake down;

Exercise them - riding, lunging, hauling, or big area at least;

Do not let em put on weight, crested neck, fat cover etc;

Look after their feet .

Looking for last year's hay may be that person's method of reducing the sugar intake of their horse (Don't know if this idea is well founded or not....pun intended).

I will let you in to another secret that horse owners will/do not believe:

Retained chlorophyll in hay is not an indicator of its quality so far as sugar/ carbohydrate content, digestibility or solubility.m That is good quality green hay is no different in food value to good quality so called bleached out hay. Hayman1 hit on this when he commented on the hay produced in days gone by and there were more horses around and many actually working and not just oversized over funded pets with little to do.

hog987 hit the nail on the head; they gotta have a horse and do not have the knowledge to select or keep one so any horse will do and of course it has to be cheap. What is the old saying about a gift horse? People are more selective about buying a car no almost no matter how small their budget, and if they get a piece of cr** they do not blame the gas station for the demise of their car!!!!

Well this is a rant from a hay seller not a buyer and is founded (there goes the pun again) on decades of selling hay to horse owners. After decades of hay growing I may have learnt enough about ay that it could be written on the head of a pin ( after all someone has engraved the Lord's prayer on the head of a pin) but in my experience most horse owners knowledge of hay could rewritten on the point of a pin and with a felt tipped pen.

But at the end of the day it is their money that I am trying to relieve them of, and the customer always knows best. Well let 'em think that, smile and take their money, I am not going to educate them all.


----------



## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Coondle, looks like the Morgan breed has a similar genetic history to the Thoroughbred!

http://www.morganhorse.com/about_morgan/history/


----------



## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

You know Coondle with thoroughbreds there are severe genetic problems. It all started when "market breeders"entered the fold. These people don't look beyond the next foal, just as with racing, I don't think any race should be under 1 1/2 mile and no 2yro should race. Stayers produce sprinters never happended the other way around. Don't want to high jack the thread, I agree with you. One of you trainers a Mr Robertson, opened my eye to the aussie way of horse handling and it was a revelation


----------



## Coondle (Aug 28, 2013)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Coondle, looks like the Morgan breed has a similar genetic history to the Thoroughbred!
> 
> http://www.morganhorse.com/about_morgan/history/


Not a breed I had heard of so decided to do some reading about it. There is a Morgan Society in Australia but they seem to have avoided me.. Lol

However my reading showed that in the 1870's there were other bloodlines introduced to give the breed longer legs which were then fashionable. Another thing disclosed is that there is only limited genetic disease within the breed notwithstanding only a single foundation sire.

Good thing is they still eat hay.


----------



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

As a horse owner, hay maker, and hay buyer, I can tell you what I want from hay: dry, no mold, no weeds. The horses don't care about weeds, they eat around what they don't like, but I don't want those weed seeds out in my field. Mold can be dangerous for a horse, but most horses will eat around the bad parts if they have a choice of other non-moldy hay. Dusty hay causes respiratory problems, just like it would for you if you tried to eat it. Dust is no big deal to me, I just wet it down, but it's still annoying, especially in the winter. There are horses that can't handle grazing on green grass - one of ours gets grass founder (grass laminitis) if he gets on rich spring grass too quickly. So having good quality hay is important.

Having sold a bunch of hay to horse people, there are some crazies out there for sure. Only people crazier are the folks with show cattle.


----------

