# whats the best type of conditioners for timothy hay



## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm starting a 200 acre commerical horse hay producing farm in upstate New York. Which I will be growing all timothy hay, I am debting what type of conditioners i want to have on my discbine rubber rollers, steel or what else?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

If it is just grass hay you may want the impellar type.They work great in grass but not in alfalfa.

You should search old posts on here it's been disscussed a few times.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

When you say timothy hay, do you mean a hundred percent timothy, or a timothy/alfalfa mix? If it's pure grass a impeller type would work very well, if it's a mix, the consensus seems to be that impellers can strip the leaves off of alfalfa.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Eric,Don't know where you are from, but I add red clover to my timothy. If you are doing that or are adding alfalfa, just like the other guys stated, I would stay away from impellar type rolls. I use rubber for everything including alfalfa anyway. Mike


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes its going to be straight timothy, Ive been told to use steel rollers so idk, Any thoughts on a good rake or tedder


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## Cozyacres (Jul 16, 2009)

eric1066 said:


> I'm starting a 200 acre commerical horse hay producing farm in upstate New York. Which I will be growing all timothy hay, I am debting what type of conditioners i want to have on my discbine rubber rollers, steel or what else?


Thats alot of timothy! I used to farm in the Finger lakes area of upstate NY. With that much hay you better get some good equipment. I always had a hard time drying hay there. It was always wet fields, raining or going to rain.


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## eric1066 (Dec 1, 2010)

YA im further east above Albany, Its very well drained ground and I paln on doing this all commerical, I have a broker all setup so we'll see


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I think a tedder would be a good idea for you.It would probably help drying more than the conditioning would.A rotary rake may also be a good choice to make a fluffier windrow.But they do cost more.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I don't think he has much choice. He's going to need all 3 -a conditioner on the mower (the steel on steel is a good choice, and will accept alfalfa - you just have to watch the setting on them, as they will literally 'dice' the hay into small pieces if run too tight). Get a tedder that will do 2 rows out the back of your mower (3 rows if a 9ft or less). You'll probably make 2 trips over the field, so you wanna be able to get it done quickly. A rotary rake is an almost 'must have' in your area. I'd get one that makes 2 rows, and allows you to double up on later cuttings, allowing a '4 on one' scenario. You'll have to pick a brand of tedder based on the width that the manufacturer offers. I'd go with Kuhn or Krone, but I'd look at the Class as well. Many folks are happy with the Pequea brand. Get a rake from any manufacturer that I mentioned. As with any equipment purchase, the dealer (and brand) support should be a pretty big factor, not just price.

Rodney


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

Eric I am just east of Albany and bale roughly 350-400 acres of all sorts. Some Timothy (straight) T/A, Orch/Alf, Grass etc etc. I will be honest, I have used both the rollers in my NH 1431 and the impellers on a brand new 926 JD. I have seen little difference. I see more of a difference in the times of tedding. I now mow and ted immediately. I have found it seems to work best for me. I use a Pequea 4 star tedder which Salem Farm Supply did carry, not sure if they still do or not. if you don't mind me asking, where in NY are you going to be? I move a lot of hay out of that area and may be able to help you out a little. 
Rotary rakes are def. the way to go, and tandems are a must as well. On 200 acres, you better be moving and making sure you have barns close by to duck under cover when the "freak rogue storm comes flying out of nowhere" Saratoga region is known for it!! Anywho good luck, and be open minded about your haying operation. Timothy is great hay, but I bet you I can sell more grass hay than straight timothy 10 times over for more money!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Hayboy... when you say grass hay, exactly what do you mean? Orchardgrass, brome, something else? Quite a bit of the timothy that we have to compete with comes out of NY state, not certain of where in the state.

Rodney


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## Hayboy1 (Jul 19, 2008)

don't get me wrong Rodney, I love nice Timothy!! I have more requests for "soft" grassy hay vs. the coarser Timothy hay. I mean early cut brome, orchard, timothy maybe a touch of alf. I will move an honest 50k bales this year, probably half of that is horse quality. The remainder is straw an mulch, with some "scrub" hay. You an I as well others know what the "horse people" should be feeding, but they all dive after the soft green hay and/or second and third cuttings then wonder why their animals are overweight and wound up so bad they kick the crap out of their stalls! 
More than likely the hay comes from just west of Albany NY out to the finger lakes area and south. That is pretty big hay country, lot of land to be farmed. Certainly not the midwest by any means, but nothing to sneeze at either.


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi Eric, for any grass hay like Timothy, Orchardgrass, or Brome, I would suggest using a flail conditioner (impeller) or steel on steel rolls. We have flails on our discbine and absolutely love them for any grass hay. Other people say not to use flails/impeller on alfalfa, but any type of conditioner will knock off leaves if it's not set right. While I was in college, we developed a lab that tested rubber rolls vs. steel on steel rolls vs. flails and all three types had very similar results for leaf loss. The amount of leaf loss you have is majorily influenced on how you have your mower setup, while speed (rpm's) of your conditioner also plays a small part. Many mower manufacturers have "slow speed" add-ons to lower your conditioner's rpms if you want to minimize leaf loss further. Hope this helps ya!


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## PaCustomBaler (Nov 29, 2010)

Hayboy1 said:


> . Timothy is great hay, but I bet you I can sell more grass hay than straight timothy 10 times over for more money!


I've been moving a lot of horse Timothy faster than I have been moving any other grass hay this year. All depends what the "fad" for the year is in a particular region.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Yea, timothy will outsell any other grass by 4 to 1, and depending what type of grass and cutting it might be 6-10 to 1. That 'soft' grass that hayboy refers to must be a second cutting?

Rodney


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Rodney R said:


> Yea, timothy will outsell any other grass by 4 to 1, and depending what type of grass and cutting it might be 6-10 to 1. That 'soft' grass that hayboy refers to must be a second cutting?
> 
> Rodney


Could be what we here refer to as "meadow hay" or "pasture grass". Indigenous grasses that have take over in the many years since a field was cropped. These never seem to get course so make soft hay with very little feed value. Usually comes cheap out of the lower land value areas.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I would think that what he is referring to is second cutting and beyond orchardgrass. All of that grass should be very soft and palatable. Mike


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Mike,
We have some of that 'wild' or indigenous grass and that 'ruins' our timothy stands - over the years it will creep inward, until there is too much of that wild grass growing to justify keeping the stand. If fertilized and such, some of the 'wild' grasses will do very well, but the improved varieties will always do better.

Rodney


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## 6125 (Sep 14, 2009)

Hmmmmm, I 'm seeing the same thing here in east Pa. this year. A lot of attention to Timothy for some reason. Beautifull 3rd grass/alfalfa mix, and they're walking right past it to grab the timothy. Backwards compared to last year.

I do like the chevron rolls I have, but i'd rather have the "crusher" rolls that my neighbor has. They impress me on the job they do, and he's claiming theyre making a difference in drying time and softness of the hay, especially the later made "course" timothy.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Rodney, We have also had some type of grass come up in our timothy . Don't really know what type you are talking about but ours looks like a single stalk with one leaf and a 1" long head similar to a wheat head. The agronomists don't seem to know what it is either. We call it wonder grass because we wonder what it is. LOL . Is there any control for your wild grass? I take it that it is not. Mike


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

NDVA Mike,
Our 'wild' grass..... We have several.... One is an orchardgrass (I actually planted very little in the past) - it doesn't yield what orchardgrass would yield if you planted an improved variety, but most of it is on ground that I never want to till again. Some is like a brome grass, and I've heard some folks call some a chinese orchardgrass, and some might be a ryegrass...... The only solution is to kill everything and break the cycle with something like corn or soybeans for a few years. I was planting alfalfa in the 'trouble' fields, but then I wound up with too much alfalfa..... I have a few pictures. One shows how some fields begin to look - this was the 3rd and final year for that. The next shows wild stuff in the foreground (most is wild o-grass) and timothy in the background, and the last is just a head of one of the grasses.

Rodney


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Rodney, Doesn't look like our brome but in the background of the 3rd photo is definately Italian Ryegrass. Mike


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