# Battle of two light heavyweight tractors



## JD3430

Which tractor below is better, or which would you rather have?

BOTH have:
Full hvac cabs.
MFWD.
Partial powershifts.
~26MPH road speed.
Original eng/trans as far as sellers both know (no major rebuilds). Neither owners are original owners
"European" tractors.
Front 3pt hitch
Front PTO's
Fair-avg tires. 
Average paint
Average condition

1. 1996 Deere 7800
10,500 hrs
7.6L Deere
Powershift with E range
159 PTO HP
weighs 15,000lbs
pump 25 GPM closed center
1000/540
480/30 @ 20%
620/42 @ 30%
Front suspension
Juice brake connection for trailer (never saw that) 
Buddy seat
Radar
$38,500
Overall condition is about a 6.5-7

2. Case-IH MX-170
8,000 hrs
5.9L Cummins 
18 speed Powershift
145 PTO HP
weighs 14,000lbs
pump 28 gpm closed center pressure flow compensated
540/30 @ 20% 
540/70/42 @ 20%
Front suspension
Unknown on trailer brakes (have question in to seller)
No buddy seat
No radar.
$36,500
Overall condition is about a 6.5-7

Deere is older and has higher hours. Also has more weight and more factory HP

Case-IH is a little lighter, substantially lower hours. Cummins could be fueled up easily. Costs $2,000 less.

I'm sure there's something I left out or made a mistake on. 
Wouldn't need the radar. 
I think it all comes down to condition of each and luck. 
Heavily considering MX-170
But take your green or red tinted shades off for a moment (if you're brand loyal) and give your opinions if you would.
Thanks.


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## Vol

You might check to see what a rebuild would cost on each in your area.

Regards, Mike


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## Gearclash

Actual weight on the MX170 is more like 16,000. Both would be a "pocket battleship". 7800 with its bigger engine would I think have a better power band.


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> Actual weight on the MX170 is more like 16,000. Both would be a "pocket battleship". 7800 with its bigger engine would I think have a better power band.


I'm sure you're right. went off Tractor Data.

Pictures below, note that Mx-170 is shown without front 3 pt. It will be installed if tractor is purchased.


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## Lewis Ranch

Green goes good with anything!


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## CDennyRun

If the difference in PTO hp is a big deal for you, and you really want a buddy seat.. well the Deere doesn't look too bad. The MX with lower hours would be my choice.

Chris


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## Gearclash

Looks like the 170 has had PTO worked on at some point. Par for the course with those hours. Front grill looks straight, big plus. Grille is a bit vulnerable to damage and runs into $$$ if panels need to be replaced. Curious about the 18 spd thing. Any pics of the console?


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> Looks like the 170 has had PTO worked on at some point. Par for the course with those hours. Front grill looks straight, big plus. Grille is a bit vulnerable to damage and runs into $$$ if panels need to be replaced. Curious about the 18 spd thing. Any pics of the console?


 Deere E range console and Mx-170 console.
I don't see anything different on the 170 shifter, but I've only been in one for 5 minutes.
See anything different?


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## Widairy

I have both green and red paint on my yard. I perfer the green myself. Never had an mx series tractor. I have a 7510 Deere and a 7110 case. I've had the Deere for about 7 years now and have put about 2000 hours on it and love it. My understanding of the Mx series case would be the red version of the 7510 basically. I do have two different friends that ran Mx135. Both traded them in after 2 or 4 years on something blue and nearly new, T 7 something I believe. Seemed to me like my Deere held up better since it's still here and I had heavier uses. I used to pull a forage chopper with mine, it was a little light, thus the older magnum. Which has been a solid unit. But for similar money I'd probably go with the Deere.


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## Grateful11

I'm chuckling at those hours. Like it's already been said better find out what a rebuild will run.


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## JD3430

Grateful11 said:


> I'm chuckling at those hours. Like it's already been said better find out what a rebuild will run.


 8,000 on a 5.9 Cummins? Proper care it's a 15,000 hour engine.

For the price, Its a good buy and leaves money for a rebuild, if it's needed.
I can't afford a 4,000 hour tractor.


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## FCF

Keywords: "Proper care", what is it with Improper care? Not trying to be nasty but with that amount of hours it is better err on the side of caution.


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## carcajou

If the rest of that 7800 looks like the cab i would pass.


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## JD3430

I can't afford low hours. 
I figured 8k hrs for that tractor at 36,500 wasn't too bad.

Appreciate the feedback.....good, bad or ugly.


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## Gearclash

> I don't see anything different on the 170 shifter, but I've only been in one for 5 minutes.
> 
> See anything different?


Looks the same as mine, 16 speed. Lever is 4 synchronized range gears, thumb switch at the top of the lever is 4 power shift gears. The Deere will have a closer gear speed spacing I would think, given the E range. Deere guys could speak for that.

Friends of mine have a 5130 (earlier na version of CIH 5.9) that has over 20,000 hours on. Told me once that it was on a 400 hr oil change interval. They bought it almost new, never had the engine apart. TMR tractor.

If the hours/price were the same, I'd lean toward the Deere. Just saying, but you can run the MX for 10 years at 250 hrs a year before it has the same hours as the 7800.

Nothing wrong with buying higher use/older equipment, just have to go into it with your eyes open and realize there may be a few bumps on the way. One way to look at it, if you had to spend $10,000 on either of these tractors in the next few years, would you still feel like you got a fair deal?


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> If the hours/price were the same, I'd lean toward the Deere. Just saying, but you can run the MX for 10 years at 250 hrs a year before it has the same hours as the 7800.
> 
> Nothing wrong with buying higher use/older equipment, just have to go into it with your eyes open and realize there may be a few bumps on the way. One way to look at it, if you had to spend $10,000 on either of these tractors in the next few years, would you still feel like you got a fair deal?


That's how I was thinking. Didn't know if the Deere was worth more because of reputation despite higher hours and cost


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## Grateful11

I know you've brought several of these tractor topics up before but can you remind us again what will be the primary use for this tractor?

Is there anyway to get some history on one or both of the tractors?

The 5.9 Cummins is a great engine there's no debating that. There's a Maxxum 5140 here with the same engine but much less hours. It's had proper care. That being said we worry more about all the electric solenoids and gizmos than the engine. Knock on wood the engine has never missed a beat.


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## JD3430

Grateful11 said:


> I know you've brought several of these tractor topics up before but can you remind us again what will be the primary use for this tractor?
> 
> Is there anyway to get some history on one or both of the tractors?
> 
> The 5.9 Cummins is a great engine there's no debating that. There's a Maxxum 5140 here with the same engine but much less hours. It's had proper care. That being said we worry more about all the electric solenoids and gizmos than the engine. Knock on wood the engine has never missed a beat.


Push 13' front mount Krone disc mower and maybe a rear mount on right side.

Pull Manure spreader & large baler.

Is that adequate use for either of those tractors?

Hope my topic isn't too dragged out or boring for you, I thought that's what this website was for. Or maybe its politics and football? lol


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## Gearclash

> Push 13' front mount Krone disc mower and maybe a rear mount on right side.
> 
> Pull Manure spreader & large baler.


You'll need every bit of either of these two tractors. And I'm not going to disparage the idea of hanging a mower out front. I'd do the same thing if I had my own hay to mow. Hauled manure with my MX170 for the first time this fall, now I don't want to go back to using my smaller tractors. 

My opinion, but on these tractors electrical problems will cost less in the long run than mechanical problems.


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## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> Push 13' front mount Krone disc mower and maybe a rear mount on right side.
> 
> Pull Manure spreader & large baler.
> 
> Is that adequate use for either of those tractors?
> 
> Hope my topic isn't too dragged out or boring for you, I thought that's what this website was for.


As Gearclash said, the electronics is what worries me. The Case is newer and looks like better treated than JD. I'd go Case. Both tractors are really going to work doing what you wrote.


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## JD3430

I think I'm leaning more to a 3x3 baler. Cheaper price and lower HP requirement.

Just concerned I'll be right back here in 2-4 years wanting to switch to a 3x4.


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## JD3430

Trillium Farm said:


> As Gearclash said, the electronics is what worries me. The Case is newer and looks like better treated than JD. I'd go Case. Both tractors are really going to work doing what you wrote.


I agree, but being 20 years old, dont they have a lower total amount of electronics than say a 5 yr old tractor? And fewer pollution controls?

I do realize the wires are older/less reliable, connections looser & more corroded. That does worry me, but what can I really do.

Staying small is not an option. If I stay small, I can already see the income wont be adequate.


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## 8350HiTech

What happened to the 8670s?


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## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> I agree, but being 20 years old, dont they have a lower total amount of electronics than say a 5 yr old tractor? And fewer pollution controls?
> 
> I do realize the wires are older/less reliable, connections looser & more corroded. That does worry me, but what can I really do.
> 
> Staying small is not an option. If I stay small, I can already see the income wont be adequate.


Yes JD will have less gizmos, but they'd be a lot older. Most problems with electronics is oxidation, if you spray them with an oil based rustproof like Rustcheck or Crown Rust Control you'd be fine. I have a 2001 Subaru which has been treated almost yearly with these products and the only thing I had to replace was a light bulb. Also these electronics don't like to be in the open, they LOVE to be under a roof.


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## JD3430

8350HiTech said:


> What happened to the 8670s?


Nothing-I'm still interested in 8670's....just don't see any out there reasonably close by with front hitch/.


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## DSLinc1017

If you haven't looked yet, You should look to Canada. The dollar is very strong now. Its not as far away as you may think.


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## Grateful11

JD3430 said:


> Push 13' front mount Krone disc mower and maybe a rear mount on right side.
> 
> Pull Manure spreader & large baler.
> 
> Is that adequate use for either of those tractors?
> 
> Hope my topic isn't too dragged out or boring for you, I thought that's what this website was for. Or maybe its politics and football? lol


Personally I'm not sure 145hp is enough for both those mowers but I could be wrong. The mechanic my wife and son uses said he could easily turn a 5.9L Cummins to 200hp, not that they need it though.

LOL. The first time I've ever mentioned sports was yesterday and if it were up to me politics would be banned altogether on here unless it was something political that directly affected agriculture and then it should only be in the Boiler Room but that's just my opinion.

I'm not bored by your tractor topics at all, just wanted to be reminded without having to go back and search old threads for half a day.

Maybe you're a little like me, my wife says I can never make a decision. LOL

I know this is a big investment, it sure would be for my wife and sons operation. We've often talked about what it would take to replace the 5140 Maxxum with something of similar size and weight. That's why they have to take good care of it. Every piece of equipment here is in the dry and I think that makes a big difference.

To me the new Maxxums just feel like a big hunk of plastic when you get in the cab, sure it's nice and roomy but man all those electronics. When my wife's late Father ordered the Maxxum he ordered it with analog dash instead of digital, we're glad he did. He had quite a bit trouble at first with solenoids, one worked it's way loose going down the road and left him sitting in the road, wouldn't move an inch, that's all it took to completely stop it from moving. The one thing we wish hadn't done was to delete one set of rear remotes on the order, I guess he thought he'd never need them. We wish it had 3.

Can't blame you one bit for taking your time in finding the right tractor. Heck we'll keep an eye out but rarely see anything around here with a front hitch. Heck if I lived near you I'd gladly ride with you to look. Do you have an independent mechanic that you can trust to give you an opinion on one once you find something that meets your requirements?


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## JD3430

Grateful11 said:


> Personally I'm not sure 145hp is enough for both those mowers but I could be wrong. The mechanic my wife and son uses said he could easily turn a 5.9L Cummins to 200hp, not that they need it though.
> 
> LOL. The first time I've ever mentioned sports was yesterday and if it were up to me politics would be banned altogether on here unless it was something political that directly affected agriculture and then it should only be in the Boiler Room but that's just my opinion.
> 
> I'm not bored by your tractor topics at all, just wanted to be reminded without having to go back and search old threads for half a day.
> 
> Maybe you're a little like me, my wife says I can never make a decision. LOL
> 
> I know this is a big investment, it sure would be for my wife and sons operation. We've often talked about what it would take to replace the 5140 Maxxum with something of similar size and weight. That's why they have to take good care of it. Every piece of equipment here is in the dry and I think that makes a big difference.
> 
> To me the new Maxxums just feel like a big hunk of plastic when you get in the cab, sure it's nice and roomy but man all those electronics. When my wife's late Father ordered the Maxxum he ordered it with analog dash instead of digital, we're glad he did. He had quite a bit trouble at first with solenoids, one worked it's way loose going down the road and left him sitting in the road, wouldn't move an inch, that's all it took to completely stop it from moving. The one thing we wish hadn't done was to delete one set of rear remotes on the order, I guess he thought he'd never need them. We wish it had 3.
> 
> Can't blame you one bit for taking your time in finding the right tractor. Heck we'll keep an eye out but rarely see anything around here with a front hitch. Heck if I lived near you I'd gladly ride with you to look. Do you have an independent mechanic that you can trust to give you an opinion on one once you find something that meets your requirements?


No, I actually started a thread to see if any Hay Talkers lived in upstate NY. Nada.

I could call a local Case-IH dealer and see if they could run a mechanic out to look at it, but results could be widely varied depending on the quality of the technician.


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## CenTex

I have no experience with the two tractors you are considering. However, I personally would put
a lot of weigh on the type of seller.

I have found that used tractors are generally available because:
- Someone is trading up (age or hours)
- They are retiring or downsizing
- They have had a problem with the tractor or expect to have a problem.

Equipment "jockeys" end up with a disproportionally large share of the tractors that have issues.Yet, since they are a middleman in the business to buy low and sell higher you are unlikely to get it priced low enough to compensate for the risk you are assuming.

The last used tractor I bought was a red tractor on a green tractor dealer's lot. I was able to
get the history of the tractor, the reason for the trade (more HP) and since it was not the
dealer's line of equipment he was just looking to make a little profit on what he had given as
trade-in consideration.


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## carcajou

Twice i have bought Red iron on a Green lot. Both times i made out like a bandit.


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## aawhite

I know you don't look at older tractors, but you could probably find a JD 4450 MFWD with fewer hours for the same price. Won't have the buddy seat or go 26 mph, though. Our 4450 was turned up to 165 hp, and would rip the tires off our JD 7810. We were pulling big field cultivators (same size) in the same field, the 4450 ran circles around the 7810, we ended up getting as much smaller cultivator for it. Neighbor pulled a 3x4 Hesston baler with his JD 4450 for years. Just a thought...


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## JD3430

Cant imagine power would be an issue with a 5.9L Cummins, especially turned up a bit.


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## haybaler101

Don't forget both tractors are looking at $5000 worth of rubber real soon.


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## JD3430

haybaler101 said:


> Don't forget both tractors are looking at $5000 worth of rubber real soon.


Yeah I know. I figured I could run one of them for a few years while I save my pennies for rubber.

The seller of the MX-170 said he'd pull a set of new BKT radials off a tractor he has (same size rubber) for a pretty reasonable price.

Wish I had better low hour options.

I noticed only a few of everyone's replies are picking one tractor or the other!


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## DSLinc1017

JD3430 said:


> I noticed only a few of everyone's replies are picking one tractor or the other!


We are being carefull.... We have all had buyers remorse 

Edit:
The grass is Always greener on the other sales lot.......


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## thendrix

[/quote]

I could call a local Case-IH dealer and see if they could run a mechanic out to look at it, but results could be widely varied depending on the quality of the technician. [/quote]

Make sure to ask them to not send the shop gopher just because he doesn't have anything to do and is in people's way


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## swmnhay

If your going to send a mechanic to look at it I'd go with a independent mechanic.Pretty hard to get a unbiased opinion from a dealer that the other guy is in competition with selling tractors.If you could even get a dealer to send a mechanic to look at it.Im thinking at least he would be offended and a good chance he would tell you to buzz off.

They appear to be European imports,it may have been discussed but sometimes there is some differences in U.S. Models.Usually not a issue.The shorter axles can be a issue for row crop tractor as axle duals won't work but for hay it should be fine.But resale could be affected.

At 8000-10,000 hrs you have more to worry about then the engine.Tranny,rearend and FWA all could need repairs and none are a cheap fix.


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## JD3430

Guy with Deere just sharpened his pencil:

$37,000 free delivery (300 miles)


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## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> Guy with Deere just sharpened his pencil:
> 
> $37,000 free delivery (300 miles)


I'd go with the one that is less likely to cost you money while in your ownership, this would allow you to save up for something better later on. The Case has at least 5 yrs of work before it reaches the JD hours and seem to have been kept better. The JD looks like it was rode hard and put away wet!


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## CenTex

Interesting dilemma JD3430.

I think for a tractor with that many hours you either:
Need to know the history of the tractor, or
Be a good enough mechanic yourself that you do some of the potential repairs, or
Get an independent mechanic to inspect it before you buy.

If I had almost convinced myself to buy, I would look for a tractor mechanic local to me and offer them $500 cash and a steak dinner if they would take a weekend road trip with me to check it out.

BTW

If you have not already done so the AgTalk website is a good resource for queries like yours.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=2

There is a much higher number of posters there and usually someone there can offer an opinion on experiences with a specific dealer.


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## thendrix

JD3430 said:


> Guy with Deere just sharpened his pencil:
> $37,000 free delivery (300 miles)


So he cut his price $1000 and basically cut it another $1000 by offering free delivery? Kinda makes me wonder why? Did you offer less or did HE offer less?


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## JD3430

thendrix said:


> So he cut his price $1000 and basically cut it another $1000 by offering free delivery? Kinda makes me wonder why? Did you offer less or did HE offer less?


He offered less.

He's driving down to PA from VT to deliver a different piece of equipment, so offered to toss it on his trailer and bring it down and take $1,500 off.

I just found this thing over the weekend and thought, what the heck, I'll do the comparison on HT.

Cant bring myself to buy a 10,500hr tractor unless my neighbor owned it or something. Event the MX-170 with 8K hours gets me worried. The hours do seem to be honest.

Its the 20yr old tractor with 3,500hrs that makes me suspicious.

I'd rather be down around 4-5K hrs, but then price goes up.


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## thendrix

I'll agree 10,500 hrs is a lot. If he's willing to cut the price and offer delivery that way I'd say he's been trying to sell it for a while or he knows something. Or he's been trying to sell it for a while BECAUSE he knows something.


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## bensbales

Hey Jd who has the deere in Vt? I think i saw that one on craigs list a couple months ago. Most tractors come to Vt to die, so be careful lol !


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## 8350HiTech

thendrix said:


> I'll agree 10,500 hrs is a lot. If he's willing to cut the price and offer delivery that way I'd say he's been trying to sell it for a while or he knows something. Or he's been trying to sell it for a while BECAUSE he knows something.


Or he just started with a higher price so he knew he had room to offer someone a "discount".


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## somedevildawg

That's what I'd do ^^^^ I don't ever list something with the intention of getting exactly what I'm asking unless I priced it to move it......Then I would put "FIRM"


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## glasswrongsize

8350HiTech said:


> Or he just started with a higher price so he knew he had room to offer someone a "discount".


Furthermore, especially since he offered the discount, there is probably still more room to wiggle for him. Shoot him back an offer with which you are wholly comfortable and see how the dealer responds. If you have to talk with him for an hour and save a grand, that's a pretty good wage for you.

73, Mark


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## Gearclash

JD 7800s with 10,000ish hours have been selling on Auctiontime for low to mid $20,000s.


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## swmnhay

Well looky here.Compare the pics.Appears to be the same tractor sold for $22,100 in Sept in Alabama.
http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?OHID=9450771&lp=th


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## swmnhay

And here is the MX 170
http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?OHID=9327891&lp=th


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## swmnhay

I'd rate these tractors a 4-5 not a 6.5-7


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## JD3430

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion on the condition. And we don't know what the seller I'm dealing with did to improve it since auction, either.
The MX-170 was being offered at $30,500 without the front 3pt and PTO. It looks like the bidding went to 26,500 on the 170 and the auction ended with no buyer.
The front PTO & 3pt bring price up to $36,500 on the 170.
Working off the final auction offer price, the seller did tell me he had to install a new flex plate and the rear tires were replaced with better used tires.
So if he could have sold it for $26,500, then added flex plate and better used tires and who knows what else, that's not an obscene profit. Maybe 10%. But who knows WHAT he paid for it.

If that's the same 7800, that blows me away. That's practically a salvage price. That seller told me new king pins were installed, bu that's only like $2,000.


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## northern Ohio baler

Our local new Holland dealer just picked up a new Holland 8670 with road gear and wide tires . Has 11,000 hours on it but it looks really nice. I think they're asking 26,000 for it. They also have a front 3 pt the can put on it.


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## Growing pains

That's the problem with condition scores. Completely up to the opinion of the person giving the score. I'm by no means an expert but I have always been told that a Deere engine is a problem free 10,000 hour engine but in the older stuff (30's and 40's series) some have problems with gears starting to flake in the trans and rear end. As for Cummins I've personally been around a few north of 15,000 hours that had proper maintenance and were problem free with no oil usage or leakage. Not familiar with the case tractors but in my opinion the case should be the better buy providing it appears to have been taken care of and is something you would be happy to have sitting in your shed.


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## JD3430

My dilema is that I'm asking a lot. Budget is about 35.

I dont want a gazillion hours, either.

Want the front 3pt/front pto for plowing snow and a front disc mower.

Want the wide rubber to help prevent compaction.

Really like the road speed to save time between fields

Need max size in a tractor that still has 540/1000 PTO so I can pull what I have now and a 3x3 or 3x4 in the near future.

MX-170, NH8670, McCormick MTX-165-XTX 185 seem to be best fits

Just like the 5.9L Cummins out of the 3 powerplants in those tractors.

Not well versed in Deere tractors, but that 7800 looked interesting. I'm past that 7800 now. Too many hours for price.


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## Lewis Ranch

Auction time is a great place to find bargains, I buy stuff of their and generally "steal" it.


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## Vol

Lewis Ranch said:


> Auction time is a great place to find bargains, I buy stuff of their and generally "steal" it.


I wish I could be that fortunate....I have bid many times but have yet "to steal" a single item.....it seems that the items I bid on are well bided.

Regards, Mike


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## thendrix

JD3430 said:


> My dilema is that I'm asking a lot. Budget is about 35.
> I dont want a gazillion hours, either.
> Want the front 3pt/front pto for plowing snow and a front disc mower.
> Want the wide rubber to help prevent compaction.
> Really like the road speed to save time between fields
> Need max size in a tractor that still has 540/1000 PTO so I can pull what I have now and a 3x3 or 3x4 in the near future.
> 
> MX-170, NH8670, McCormick MTX-165-XTX 185 seem to be best fits
> 
> Just like the 5.9L Cummins out of the 3 powerplants in those tractors.
> Not well versed in Deere tractors, but that 7800 looked interesting. I'm past that 7800 now. Too many hours for price.


From this list it sounds as if the road gear is the least priority. Why not look for something that doesn't have it. It will cost you some time but it might get you into something with less hours.


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## JD3430

thendrix said:


> From this list it sounds as if the road gear is the least priority. Why not look for something that doesn't have it. It will cost you some time but it might get you into something with less hours.


I'm not so sure....

90% of the "road gear" tractors are generally from Europe and they sell much cheaper than US tractors.

If you think the 2 tractors I compared in this thread are expensive, you should see what's on my local dealer lots. They want 45-55,000 for used tractors with less features and just as much wear.


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## thendrix

I sure am glad I get by with a $3500 long 610. lol


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## JD3430

I cant help but think this a better value and nicer tractor, but some HT members are dead set againts the MXM series. Less upfront costs, 2500 LESS hours, much better back tires. More power. More features. See the MXM-190

http://www.htrtractor.com/inv.htm


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## Gearclash

I have a TM120 (blue MXM pretty much) and an MX135. Both 2 wd, so hp aside they are a very fair comparison, both pull a 5x6 round baler set up the same. Yes, the TM has more features. I don't need em. The cab is a big step back on the TM even though it is a newer tractor. The MX cab gets quieter as the engine speed is increased, TM gets noisier. TM is harder to enter/exit. Throttle and hydraulic levers aren't as well placed. Steering ratio is slower on the TM and I don't like it. TM has a nicer seat than the MX though (both air ride). Out in the field the MX handles faster than the TM consistently, although the TM has a smoother shuttle.TM has a bigger engine which would be a plus in the big models. TM190 has a Bosch VP44 injector pump, same as first Dodge 24 valve pickups. Computer controlled injector pump.

*Your results may vary.*


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## JD3430

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9688625

$23,500 no front hitch. Supersteer. Good rubber. 11,000 hrs.
Looks like a 5,000 hr tractor

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9516899

$31,000 front hitch, but no front PTO. 5,900 hours. Decent rubber.


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## northern Ohio baler

I looked at my dealer's 8670 the other day. It's nice 1999 model new front tires 4 remotes they just put $6200 into it. It has 11,500 hrs on it it looks like only about 4,000. I'd buy it if it had a creeper gear.


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## OhioHay

My concern with either tractor is the weight. We have a claas 2100RC 3x3. It weighs 15,000 empty. I would assume other balers might weigh more. I would worry about getting pushed around on your hills. Our baling tractor weighs 20,000 and that works well on our hills. Maybe try and find a JD 8000 series?


----------



## Growing pains

OhioHay said:


> My concern with either tractor is the weight. We have a claas 2100RC 3x3. It weighs 15,000 empty. I would assume other balers might weigh more. I would worry about getting pushed around on your hills. Our baling tractor weighs 20,000 and that works well on our hills. Maybe try and find a JD 8000 series?


If you find an 8000 series Deere in the 30's that isn't shot about any farm in my area would be all over it. Great tractors but probably higher price than what JD has been looking for.


----------



## OhioHay

Growing pains said:


> If you find an 8000 series Deere in the 30's that isn't shot about any farm in my area would be all over it. Great tractors but probably higher price than what JD has been looking for.


Good point. Maybe could wait a year or two till it is in the budget?


----------



## slowzuki

No front pto on 8000 series though right?

How about this http://m.kijiji.ca/business-industrial/woodstock-on/valtra-8950-reverse-station-tractor/v?adId=1136800397&ck=CK&from=Search&ts=1455365903192


----------



## JD3430

I love the 8000 series. Probably my favorite tractor. Might be too behemoth for some of my fields. Maybe with flotation rubber it would be ok.

As much as it pains me to say, I'm thinking about scrapping my front 3 point idea to keep costs down.
Just seems so sensible to cut hay before you drive over it and it's a smaller cutter that's easier to store.


----------



## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> I love the 8000 series. Probably my favorite tractor. Might be too behemoth for some of my fields. Maybe with flotation rubber it would be ok.
> 
> As much as it pains me to say, I'm thinking about scrapping my front 3 point idea to keep costs down.
> Just seems so sensible to cut hay before you drive over it and it's a smaller cutter that's easier to store.


You're only driving over one round until you're not. No front front pto is a good compromise. You could probably still mount a front snow plow.


----------



## JD3430

Yes, there few tractors with front 3 Pt's, and far fewer with front 3pt and PTO.

I could even skip the front 3PT and just get a tractor snowplow mount similar to a large municipal truck.

I have such a "swiss army knife" mentality (although I love a SP discbine)

I think the front 3PT might also be useful with a dual bale spear in gathering round bales out of the field.


----------



## 8350HiTech

Adding a front lift only shouldn't be that hard because you would only have to run hydraulics to it instead of the mechanicals associated with the pto. On the other hand, for the price of adding front 3pt AND pto, you might get a used loader so it would just depend on what you really needed to do with it. Adding front 3pt only is probably the biggest bang for your buck given your use.


----------



## glasswrongsize

no front pto takes away the possibility of a 3pt pto driven snow blower

73,mark


----------



## Gearclash

> Adding a front lift only shouldn't be that hard because you would only have to run hydraulics to it instead of the mechanicals associated with the pto


I added the front hitch (no pto) on my MX170 myself. The biggest hassle is that MX Maxxum require a different radiator support so I had to pull the radiator, remove the original support and reassemble.


----------



## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> I added the front hitch (no pto) on my MX170 myself. The biggest hassle is that MX Maxxum require a different radiator support so I had to pull the radiator, remove the original support and reassemble.


And I forgot....what are you using front hitch for? I know you said what for and I forgot.

My plan was snowplow

And dual bale spear.

can you envision using your front 3PT to pick up round bales?

Is there enough travel up/down in the front 3PT to pick bales up and run them in from the field? (obviously not enough to load on a truck)


----------



## slowzuki

Yes the front hitches work for bale spears. Common use of them in Europe.


----------



## slowzuki

You can still run a blower using an underslung pto, that's the most common way of running a front blower up here.


----------



## Gearclash

I wanted a front hitch to roll and rake cornstalks in one pass. Hopefully the roller will "grow" to 3 times current width this year.







View attachment 14137


Front hitch easily has enough travel to move bales. MX hitch is rated for 6,000 lb lift, so I think a 3 bale carrier is perfectly reasonable. I plan to make one "someday". The benefit of a front hitch vs a FEL for moving bales is stability and better load rating as the bales will be carried closer to the front axle with the 3 pt, especially with the rather long reach loader that I have.


----------



## northern Ohio baler

You could just buy buy a Fendt and be done. We have a 2003 712 with front 3pt and pto. All we use the 3pt for is pushing balewagons out when it's wet. Also we have a 2013 Fendt 714 that I run the double baler hitch with. These tractors hardly use any fuel. 2.8 gallons an hour running to BC 5070 balers I'll take that any day over our 1971 IH 1026 hydro burning 3 to 3.5 per hour pulling one baler. 33mph and suspension are standard on Fendt tractors. Just saying.


----------



## JD3430

I love the fendt tractors. Just figured they'd be way out of my price range and expensive to repair.


----------



## northern Ohio baler

All you have to do is regular service. Our 2003 is just shy of 8,000 hrs. Doesn't use a drop of oil between oil changes. The CVT transmission and Deutz engines are bullet proof. These tractors are extremely well built. And yes I've demoed a John Deere and a New Holland hands down Fendt is king. You always get what you pay for. At least in my experience.


----------



## slowzuki

Yeah you can't afford a fendt. They are double your budget.


----------



## JD3430

Just my luck the MXM190 is considered "bad iron".

Perfect for my needs, cheap and local.

I do sit and wonder though-after 5400 hours, you'd think all the sensors that are supposed to go bad already went bad. And it is FULL powershift. The semi powershifts were supposedly the problematic ones.


----------



## thendrix

Just because its CONSIDERED bad iron doesn't mean it won't do what you ask it. My long was a bit frowned upon but it does what I need it to and all that's hurt is resale. Then again I'm going to ride it to the grave so that doesn't matter either


----------



## northern Ohio baler

I'm going to stop at my dealer and drive the 8670 and record a video of it on Tuesday. I have to pick up my four totes of acid so it's not a special trip. The dealer is Krystowski tractor sales inc. The tractor is not listed on their website yet. So far this has been my favorite topic to follow lol


----------



## JD3430

Yeah its just one guy really scared the CRAP out of me on it. Did some more digging and it seems there's "issues".

Probably issues with any tractor.


----------



## slowzuki

Import your own:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301871325460?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

This would be a great machine for me, too bad my dollar is worthless in the UK.

Shipping is cheap to eastern ports, I think it was about 2-3000$ Cdn last time I priced it landed 1 hour away from me.


----------



## JD3430

Isnt that amazing?

I have been looking at European tractors (ones actually being sold over there) for a few weeks now. The deals are astounding.


----------



## SVFHAY

Interesting. Why do used tractors, at least the mid size and up have less value in Europe? I can see the 20% value added tax changing the calculation on useful life span. Fewer mid sized farms? Are there other tax or subsidy factors?

I guess most of the imports I see are from England not the continent.


----------



## slowzuki

I think part of it is the relative strength of the US dollar against the worlds currencies the last 10 years.


----------



## deadmoose

SVFHAY said:


> Interesting. Why do used tractors, at least the mid size and up have less value in Europe? I can see the 20% value added tax changing the calculation on useful life span. Fewer mid sized farms? Are there other tax or subsidy factors?
> I guess most of the imports I see are from England not the continent.


Aren't they regulating them to obsolescence?

Big government=bad for anyone not suckling the govt. Teat.


----------



## slowzuki

As far as I know there is no regulations causing them to sell older tractors. Small farms in the UK tend to use older/antiqush machines still.



deadmoose said:


> Aren't they regulating them to obsolescence?
> 
> Big government=bad for anyone not suckling the govt. Teat.


----------



## JD3430

If I had to guess, I would think they may get penalized for keeping older tractors that pollute. OR they get a tax refund for buying new clean tractors.

Couple that with super strong dollar.

Wish I could find an importer.

You'd think someone who could import machinery to the US would advertise here at Hat talk.


----------



## deadmoose

slowzuki said:


> As far as I know there is no regulations causing them to sell older tractors. Small farms in the UK tend to use older/antiqush machines still.


You should read up some more.

Couple quick examples:
http://www.smp.nu/en/Testing/Projects/Vibrations/Sidor/default.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422868/EU-s-bad-vibrations-tractor-directive-will-destroy-farming

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13119194.Fears_over_new_EU_one_hour_limit_for_tractors/

When their tractors are non compliant, due to regulation, no one wants them THERE.


----------



## slowzuki

I'm aware of that discussion and nothing has come of it. As much plowing as ever there with old tractors. On a similar note no one has come by to relieve me of my unchain braked non antivibe partner r16 chainsaw here either despite being illegal to sell or allow an employee to use. It's a horrible saw to use though.


----------



## Trillium Farm

slowzuki said:


> Import your own:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301871325460?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> This would be a great machine for me, too bad my dollar is worthless in the UK.
> 
> Shipping is cheap to eastern ports, I think it was about 2-3000$ Cdn last time I priced it landed 1 hour away from me.


What would be the Canadian duty on this, do you know?


----------



## deadmoose

slowzuki said:


> I'm aware of that discussion and nothing has come of it.


Google "supply and demand".


----------



## slowzuki

Should be 0% for almost any country for tractors other than maybe China and Russia. I think the TM's were built in the UK, its based on country it was made in not where its coming from.



Trillium Farm said:


> What would be the Canadian duty on this, do you know?


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> You should read up some more.
> 
> Couple quick examples:
> http://www.smp.nu/en/Testing/Projects/Vibrations/Sidor/default.html
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422868/EU-s-bad-vibrations-tractor-directive-will-destroy-farming
> 
> http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13119194.Fears_over_new_EU_one_hour_limit_for_tractors/
> 
> When their tractors are non compliant, due to regulation, no one wants them THERE.


Wow, never knew farmers were possibly dumping these fine tractors because of possible upcoming "vibration" regulations.


----------



## deadmoose

Like anything any corporation does these days. Cheaper to buy a new tractor today then to pay out a lawsuit later.


----------



## slowzuki

They aren't, don't worry there isn't gonna be a huge flood of euro spec tractors showing up amazingly cheap.



JD3430 said:


> Wow, never knew farmers were possibly dumping these fine tractors because of possible upcoming "vibration" regulations.


----------



## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> They aren't, don't worry there isn't gonna be a huge flood of euro spec tractors showing up amazingly cheap.


Hmmm, I think they already are. Ive got 3 dealers in my state that cant sell them fast enough.

But now I see how much profit theyre making, too.


----------



## slowzuki

Yeah I guess they are about 40% cheaper on a U.S. dollar than Canadian one. The hours are a big turn off for most. Locally people won't touch a 10,000 hour tractor and they don't like 4-5000 hour ones much. For similar hours you can find similar priced tractors in Canada but they don't have front hitches or big rubber.


----------



## sethd11

Jd, you should really consider importing your own tractor. Might be a time consuming process but you would end up with a hell of a tractor with the specs that you want for a great price. Plus we haytalkers learn how to import through you! Just take the risk for the good of the rest of us! Lol


----------



## JD3430

Seth,

I really want to, but my testicular fortitude may not be able to meet the challenge. I can look a 6-2" 300lb lineman in the eye and tell him to "man-up", but when it come to dealing with foreign matters like that, I'm a wimp quakin' in my boots!!


----------



## slowzuki

With good reason. I've got friends and family that travel to the UK semi-regularly and there are shysters there too. There are reputable exporters there that can handle paperwork as they export to Ireland, South Africa and mainland europe regularly but they take another 2-4000$ to handle it all for you plus the shipping cost.

Ken



JD3430 said:


> Seth,
> 
> I really want to, but my testicular fortitude may not be able to meet the challenge. I can look a 6-2" 300lb lineman in the eye and tell him to "man-up", but when it come to dealing with foreign matters like that, I'm a wimp quakin' in my boots!!


----------



## swmnhay

There are a couple importers here and I think both have connections over there to check them out before they buy them and ship here.It appears they have pretty good markup before they resell here.


----------



## JD3430

swmnhay said:


> There are a couple importers here and I think both have connections over there to check them out before they buy them and ship here.It appears they have pretty good markup before they resell here.


Seems like the way they do it here is the "boss" is a guy in Europe. He uses a farmer's land here in the states as a "showroom" on which to park his inventory.

The farmer is usually very mechanical and able to make repairs on imported tractors that need repairs. He usually stocks a lot of the parts, tires, paints wheels, waxes them, etc.

The farmer gets a cut of the sale profits.

I say this because I've asked for prices on a few near me and the owner always has to make a "call to Europe" to see what is the best selling price.

I'm sure each business has its own unique arrangements.


----------



## JD3430

I wonder if there's anyone in the states who specializes in importing trucks, tractors, cars etc from foreign countries to the USA?


----------



## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> I wonder if there's anyone in the states who specializes in importing trucks, tractors, cars etc from foreign countries to the USA?


Probably hundreds if not thousands of them.


----------



## JD3430

deadmoose said:


> Probably hundreds if not thousands of them.


I started a google search and found one company. Emailed them like a week ago. No response. Didn't seem like quite the right company "fit" though.

I did contact a seller in the UK, he said he'd try to find someone who could do it.

He said machinery is always going to the states. Pretty common.


----------



## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> Import your own:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301871325460?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> This would be a great machine for me, too bad my dollar is worthless in the UK.
> 
> Shipping is cheap to eastern ports, I think it was about 2-3000$ Cdn last time I priced it landed 1 hour away from me.


Just sold for $24,250.

Would sell for at least $45,000 here-with less features.


----------



## PaMike

I assume the tractors are shipped over complete and not dissassembled and put in a container like some of the construction equipment.

I know Jimmy Mcfadden in NY was big into shipping stuff to Europe and back. Also Lancaster Parts and Equipment brings a lot of choppers over from Europe. Either of those guys might import for a fee...White Oak machinery in lancaster county also brings a lot of McCormicks over too...


----------



## slowzuki

I had a guy I was dealing with from one of the UK tractor forums who was willing to truck and ship farm equipment, I was looking at getting a bunch of used accumulators and grapples loaded in a container and sent over, that forum crashed and lost all the pms I had from the fellow but he wasn't the only guy exporting.


----------



## Fowllife

Importing a tractor is talked about in this thread. If your serious about it you might be able to email the OP and get his contact's info.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=597027&DisplayType=nested&setCookie=1


----------



## slowzuki

If you get setup to import, bring this one over for me! Find a front hitch and pto for it before it leaves. Could use 6000$ worth of tires though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Massey-Ferguson-8240-1999-tractor-in-very-good-condition-low-hours-/182026503649?hash=item2a61a005e1:g:HjIAAOSwuAVWw5mW


----------



## Gearclash

Local guy bought an MX135 from Holland. Had Red Water Machinery arrange to get it over here for him. Red Water is a Dutch based used equipment importer that has a location near here. Deal was that the tractor had a 30 day warranty. Buyer made sure that it was't delivered until shortly before he planned to use it. Last I heard he was happy with the deal.


----------



## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> Local guy bought an MX135 from Holland. Had Red Water Machinery arrange to get it over here for him. Red Water is a Dutch based used equipment importer that has a location near here. Deal was that the tractor had a 30 day warranty. Buyer made sure that it was't delivered until shortly before he planned to use it. Last I heard he was happy with the deal.


Can you share Red Water's contact info here in the US? I'm not having much luck finding an importer.


----------



## Gearclash

http://www.redwatermachinery.com/default.htm

UniInternational.com is an international machinery shipper.



Fowllife said:


> Importing a tractor is talked about in this thread. If your serious about it you might be able to email the OP and get his contact's info.
> 
> http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=597027&DisplayType=nested&setCookie=1


I would contact this guy also. I remember seeing this thread when it was initially posted.


----------



## swmnhay

You could send Barnrope (Tom) a PM he bought a tractor from redwater a couple yrs ago.From what he told me it was all good.A few differences in European and US tractors he could fill you in on.


----------



## JD3430

swmnhay said:


> You could send Barnrope (Tom) a PM he bought a tractor from redwater a couple yrs ago.From what he told me it was all good.A few differences in European and US tractors he could fill you in on.


The differences I saw all seemed more like improvements than differences. 
I will contact barnrope. Thanks


----------



## slowzuki

I've spent a couple of hours trolling UK auctions, private sale ads and dealer/exporter ads. Observations:
- not all brands are cheaper there, valtras for example appear more expensive than here, zetors as well, same's too, 
- low hour tractors don't seem to be any cheaper than here
- front pto and linkage, wide tires and a few other things don't add much value because they are sort of standard common items sort of like front weights on a 2wd here.
- not every UK cab tractor has AC including fairly fancy ones
- certain models are darlings of their market and command big bucks, price a MF 6499 for example
- here where prices seem to start tanking between 5-8000 hours it seems delayed by a few thousand hours


----------



## JD3430

So let me ask, one more time for posterity:

What would you pay for a 2000 Case-IH MX-170 8,000 hours, average condition, 4WD, cab, road speed, front suspension, will need tires in a year with front PTO & 3 pt hitch?

$35,000?

or less?

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10179565&dlr=1&pcid=3228521


----------



## SVFHAY

Jd, I thought you were looking at some HTR tractors? Pretty close, right? My cousin bought a Mx some years ago from them. Good many hours but had pretty good luck and when they was a problem they walked him right thru it over the phone. Couldn't they find what your looking for since its kinda specific?

He got the front hitch, pto. Never found a use. Did you ever look at the Fransgard front mount rotary rake? Pretty cool if you were bailing something that h2o wasn't a concern with.


----------



## JD3430

I'm planning on going to HTR this Saturday unless rain or other problems. He has a 2001 MX 170, but 9800 hours and no front hitch or pto or front suspension. $27,500. I thought 8,000 hours was a lot....10,000 hours is getting way up there. 
I'm not crazy about buying any of the tractors he has with Perkins diesels in them. Would much rather have cummins or NH Genesis.
I have lots of time, so it's not a panic situation, but I don't want to pass up on a good buy, either.


----------



## Northcountryboy

Not sure if you are still looking JD 3430 but there is an MX 150 on TractorHouse that might interest you, it's in Newark,NY for $37,000


----------



## JD3430

Northcountryboy said:


> Not sure if you are still looking JD 3430 but there is an MX 150 on TractorHouse that might interest you, it's in Newark,NY for $37,000


Yeah it's at the Same dealer who has the MX 170. 
Has great tires, doesn't it? He was actually going to remove the front pto/3pt and put it on the 170. He will also swap the tires for me from 150 to the 170 for $4,500.
However, if you look closely at the 150, someone put a "McCormick" dash cluster in it, proving its not authentic hours. Otherwise a pretty nice MX-150.


----------



## Northcountryboy

I saw the MX 150 in a paperback version of TractorHouse. Noticed the front hitch and thought of your search.


----------



## Gearclash

Not way sure on this but I think the 170 has heavier axles than the 150. Both have a heavier rear main frame than the smaller sizes.

Just unloaded an old V snow plow to hang on the front hitch of my MX170.


----------



## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> Not way sure on this but I think the 170 has heavier axles than the 150. Both have a heavier rear main frame than the smaller sizes.
> 
> Just unloaded an old V snow plow to hang on the front hitch of my MX170.


Would like to se some pics of your 170 and plow. 
I was told 170 had same rear as the 7110.


----------



## Gearclash

i will get some pictures of the tractor with the plow on it, but it could be a while. The plow needs to be converted to three point mount and I have a 1000 other things to do first. It looks like plow and tractor will match up nicely though.


----------



## SVFHAY

http://m.auctiontime.com/Farm/10143701here's your jcb!


----------



## JD3430

No front PTO, but wow that's really nice. 
Looks like that one might have the auto shift.


----------



## sethd11

Jd, it's only at 29k!! 6 hours left


----------



## JD3430

Ahhh Seth, so tempting, but a fellow HT'er talked me out of it on the turn radius issue!!

Otherwise I'd be on it like white on rice!


----------



## slowzuki

What do you think folks, bidding will finish around 43?


----------



## thendrix

39


----------



## JD3430

52


----------



## swmnhay

JD3430 said:


> 52


http://m.auctiontime.com/Farm/10178375


----------



## sethd11

37,950


----------



## JD3430

swmnhay said:


> http://m.auctiontime.com/Farm/10178375


Think it has enough ass for a 3x3 baler?


----------



## swmnhay

JD3430 said:


> Think it has enough ass for a 3x3 baler?


Probably the minumum of what you would want.

Guys I've talked to that custom lg sq bale say its more about the wieght then the HP

http://www.masseyferguson.us/content/dam/Brands/Massey%20Ferguson/US/Literature/hesston-by-massey-ferguson-2200-series-large-square-balers-brochure-english.pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/original


----------



## stack em up

My big baler guy uses a Deere 8520 on a 3x3 NH. With an accumulator full, the baler throws the tractor around at 8-10 mph.


----------



## slowzuki

I believe you just won the price is right tractor edition!



thendrix said:


> 39


----------



## JD3430

swmnhay said:


> Probably the minumum of what you would want.
> 
> Guys I've talked to that custom lg sq bale say its more about the wieght then the HP
> 
> http://www.masseyferguson.us/content/dam/Brands/Massey%20Ferguson/US/Literature/hesston-by-massey-ferguson-2200-series-large-square-balers-brochure-english.pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/original


Just sold for 35.7


----------



## JD3430

sethd11 said:


> 37,950


For the JCB?

I bet the JCB goes north of 50.

Im sticking with 52


----------



## slowzuki

No it sold for just over 40



JD3430 said:


> For the JCB?
> I bet the JCB goes north of 50.
> Im sticking with 52


----------



## JD3430

Wow!

So much machine for the money. And sells for a little more than a used Kubota 50HP cab tractor.


----------



## sethd11

I'll take crappy turning radius for 40 mph


----------



## glasswrongsize

JD3430 said:


> Wow!
> 
> So much machine for the money. And sells for a little more than a used Kubota 50HP cab tractor.


Just think what that thing would have brought if it was orange!! 

73, Mark


----------



## thendrix

thendrix said:


> 39


Were we playing "price is right" rules? Closest without going over? Did I win the show case?


----------



## thendrix

slowzuki said:


> I believe you just won the price is right tractor edition!


Sorry slow. Just saw this.

Does this episode have to air before I get my winnings?


----------



## JD3430

Looks like the JCB at Messicks I wanted like 3 months ago just took a BIG HIT in value.
They want 53 and it's an older version of the one that sold for just over 40!!!

They turned me down at 47!!
http://www.messicks.com/used/ag-tractors/14627


----------



## JD3430

Just found this.
Looks like a euro, but don't have road speed power shift. Got wide rubber, dual PTOs and front 3pt/PTO
8.3 Cummins in her.
Love it.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10182013


----------



## MDill

If you are looking at any tractors up in Vermont let me know. I spend a lot of time in that state at equipmemt dealers for someone that doesn't live there (yet). I'd be leery of buying a big hp (for up here) out of Vermont. Someone else said tractors generally come here to die, and it's true. Those are big dairy rigs, or custom operators. Either way they are racing against the clock with hired drivers, really short growing season and horrible dirt roads. There are always exceptions to that but not usually up this way. 
Just like I wouldn't buy a used car out of Vermont, they are usually really used.


----------



## Gearclash

JD3430 said:


> Just found this.
> Looks like a euro, but don't have road speed power shift. Got wide rubber, dual PTOs and front 3pt/PTO
> 8.3 Cummins in her.
> Love it.
> 
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10182013


More tractor than an MX170 for sure but considerably more clumsy. My brother has 2 7140s, one 2wd, one MFD. Both are powerhouses, especially the MFD (dynoed at 240 pto hp) but are a lot more ponderous than my MX170.


----------



## northern Ohio baler

That tractor is about 20 miles from us.


----------



## slowzuki

Another euro beauty, who knows how high the bidding will go:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Holland-TM-190-06-reg/322038103321?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143856%26meid%3D677d274f4ff4471eb078845e5d547a1a%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D26%26sd%3D182026503649


----------



## thendrix

My crystal ball doesn't advise in euro


----------



## Vol

slowzuki said:


> Another euro beauty, who knows how high the bidding will go:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Holland-TM-190-06-reg/322038103321?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143856%26meid%3D677d274f4ff4471eb078845e5d547a1a%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D26%26sd%3D182026503649


Hmmm....must be in the eye of the beholder....looks pretty blank to me.

Regards, Mike


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## DSLinc1017

MDill said:


> If you are looking at any tractors up in Vermont let me know. I spend a lot of time in that state at equipmemt dealers for someone that doesn't live there (yet). I'd be leery of buying a big hp (for up here) out of Vermont. Someone else said tractors generally come here to die, and it's true. Those are big dairy rigs, or custom operators. Either way they are racing against the clock with hired drivers, really short growing season and horrible dirt roads. There are always exceptions to that but not usually up this way.
> Just like I wouldn't buy a used car out of Vermont, they are usually really used.


The dirt roads keep the flatlanders away.  Most of my Equipment was purchased out of state, typically down in PA.

A lot of the dealers up this way are going north of the border for used equipment to sell in their yards.

MDill, What dealers are you dealing with?


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## slowzuki

Hmm shows up here, it's a clean TM190 late model with big rubber and front 3 point. Bidding around 15 UK pounds at the moment but 3 days left.


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> Hmm shows up here, it's a clean TM190 late model with big rubber and front 3 point. Bidding around 15 UK pounds at the moment but 3 days left.


Front PTO?


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## DSLinc1017

OK JD, I and I would guess that a few of us are waiting for the picture of the Brand NEW Iron. With a quote something like. " I was done looking" or "The dealer won" or "I'm in the dog house"


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## slowzuki

Yes.



JD3430 said:


> Front PTO?


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## slowzuki

Try this link:
http://r.ebay.com/5PFujM


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## carcajou

DSLinc1017 said:


> OK JD, I and I would guess that a few of us are waiting for the picture of the Brand NEW Iron. With a quote something like. " I was done looking" or "The dealer won" or "I'm in the dog house"


Nah lets just rename this "JD's endless tractor search" lol just kidding


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## JD3430

I was up at HTR tractor this morning to check out a McCormick MTX 155 and a XTX 165.

The '03 MTX was older, but nicer condition.7,900hrs, 6L Perkins $32,500 Goodyear 60% tires. 42" rubber on back.
The XTX was a newer tractor, but looks like it had a harder life. 8,000 hrs 6.7 Iveco. Tires shot. $35K

Both have front suspension, front 3pts and front PTO's


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## JD3430

Here's the MTX155
Like the tractor. Perkins is mechanical and can be powered up a little. Has air/water inter cooler. 146HP right now at stub. He thinks it will take 160 at stub no problem. 
Just not crazy about the Perkins. It actually sounds awesome, sounds better than the 5/9 Cummins!!!
There's just something "wimpy" about it....lol

I didn't take pics of the XTX165

I really don't know what to do....I really want a Case-IH made in USA Cummins powered tractor, but the older Case IH tractors are more expensive than the newer McCormicks with Perkins/Ivecos in them made in UK. It screws with your mind...seriously.


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## carcajou

Kinda strange that the draw bar does not have any swing to it, and no row crop axles. A guy could live without them but i sure find them handy. Nice looking tractor.


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## slowzuki

The hitch is a pickup hitch, it can be hydraulically lowered and pushed out to pick up trailer tongues. It has a drawbar in it now but normally has a short pintle that is very close to the axle and doesn't need a swinging drawbar feature.

The bar axles stick out too far in Europe so they are usually very short or fitted with flanged axles.



carcajou said:


> Kinda strange that the draw bar does not have any swing to it, and no row crop axles. A guy could live without them but i sure find them handy. Nice looking tractor.


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> The hitch is a pickup hitch, it can be hydraulically lowered and pushed out to pick up trailer tongues. It has a drawbar in it now but normally has a short pintle that is very close to the axle and doesn't need a swinging drawbar feature.
> 
> The bar axles stick out too far in Europe so they are usually very short or fitted with flanged axles.


I'm having a difficult time understanding the drawbar, too. Is it properly distanced from the end of the PTO stub? Or can one adjust the distance? Amazing how complex tractors outside the US seem to be on the business end.


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## slowzuki

The pulled the pintle hook drawbar out and put a normal drawbar in. Most tractors with a pickup hitch have a bracket somewhere on the tractor to hold the drawbar that isn't in use.

With the normal drawbar in it roughly matches the sae standards.

The pickup hitch latches in a locked height and distance in an out, you don't hydraulically adjust it on the fly, the controls are tapped with a divertor valve off on of the spool valves. Backup to implement unlatch, lower and extend the pintle hook, grab the ring on the implement, lift, suck it in and latch, then go.


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## slowzuki

A dromone brand one demonstrated.


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## JD3430

OK, heres a dumb question: So I see all the euro tractors have the hook and I see how it hooks up, but what keeps it secured if you go over a big bump? Wont it pop off the hook?


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## Lewis Ranch

If I was in your shoes wanting to upgrade to big baler I'd buy a cheaper high hp tractor and spend more on a nicer big baler and if things work out in your favor upgrade to a nicer tractor.


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## JD3430

I thought 32-35 was kinda cheap?
What were you thinking older/even bigger?


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## Lewis Ranch

That's what I was talking about. 30k range instead of the nicer 50k tractors


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## JD3430

Yeah 35k buys a lot of tractor but 7-8k hours is also common


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## slowzuki

The hold down tab is fixed in place so when that hitch sucks back in the ring is trapped under the tab. If you run heavy trailers and don't grease the hitch for thousands of hours the bushings do get sloppy and can let a ring jump out.



JD3430 said:


> OK, heres a dumb question: So I see all the euro tractors have the hook and I see how it hooks up, but what keeps it secured if you go over a big bump? Wont it pop off the hook?


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## MDill

DSLinc1017 said:


> The dirt roads keep the flatlanders away.  Most of my Equipment was purchased out of state, typically down in PA.
> A lot of the dealers up this way are going north of the border for used equipment to sell in their yards.
> MDill, What dealers are you dealing with?


Mainly with Champlain Valley for random used stuff, we end up at Trottiers a lot for bigger purchases and parts. Usually run up to Swanton every year to Forniers auction and people watching. For a real wheeler dealer we always poke around Moe's up in Derby/Newport but never end up buying anything, good guy to talk to. 
In fact I'm moving up to Wheelock in May and leaving the flatlands and Massholes behind me! The town has one paved road, 122, all dirt from there.


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## DSLinc1017

MDill said:


> Mainly with Champlain Valley for random used stuff, we end up at Trottiers a lot for bigger purchases and parts. Usually run up to Swanton every year to Forniers auction and people watching. For a real wheeler dealer we always poke around Moe's up in Derby/Newport but never end up buying anything, good guy to talk to.
> In fact I'm moving up to Wheelock in May and leaving the flatlands and Massholes behind me! The town has one paved road, 122, all dirt from there.


I've been dealing with Champlain for a while my self, as they are close. They have a new service manager and GM, it's gotten better. 
Never dealt with Trottiers, Forniers is always fun to see garbage sell higher than for what they want for it the other 364 days a year! Moe's is another story, I see him at other smaller auctions all the time, then see the same equipment sitting in his yard for many many thousands more. Some of his stuff comes from Champlain (family connection). That is in too poor shape for them to sell.
Moving to NEK ! It is nice up there for sure. Parts of Southern NH are quite beautiful, love the coast. 
JD, didn't mean to hijack your thread! 
Let the search continue!


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## JD3430

2000 MX-170 w/ 8K hours

Average condition

5-9 Cummins

Front 3pt, PTO & front suspension

New BKT wide radials

$37,500

2001 MX-170 w/ 6K hours

Very Good condition

5-9 Cummins. Current partial powershift rebuild.

Front 3pt & PTO. NO front suspension

60% wide radials

$44,000

2003 McCormick MTX 155 8K hours

Good Condition

6L Perkins

Front 3pt & PTO & front suspension

60% GY wide radials

$32,500

All Euro tractors with road speed and Dromone-style Euro hitch.

Low 30's was my budget.

I cant believe the extra $$ charge for older Case-IH iron compared to McCormick.

Is 5-9 Cummins worth extra $$ over 6L Perkins?


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## PaCustomBaler

Hey JD, see you're still looking for a new whip. Can't tell you much about all that green or red iron people have been posting. As for blue iron, go for a Genesis series or go to a T7000 series. Piss poor reviews of TM series and you can't find TG's with front PTO.

Look up AgriAffaires for euro equipment. There's a bunch of importers that sell on there. Figure on $5k to get one to this side of the pond.

For the price of equipment over there, not sure why someone would spend twice the money on an american tractor of the same hours and condition.

Good luck, cheers


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## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> 2000 MX-170 w/ 8K hours
> 
> Average condition
> 
> 5-9 Cummins
> 
> Front 3pt, PTO & front suspension
> 
> New BKT wide radials
> 
> $37,500
> 
> 2001 MX-170 w/ 6K hours
> 
> Very Good condition
> 
> 5-9 Cummins. Current partial powershift rebuild.
> 
> Front 3pt & PTO. NO front suspension
> 
> 60% wide radials
> 
> $44,000
> 
> 2003 McCormick MTX 155 8K hours
> 
> Good Condition
> 
> 6L Perkins
> 
> Front 3pt & PTO & front suspension
> 
> 60% GY wide radials
> 
> $32,500
> 
> All Euro tractors with road speed and Dromone-style Euro hitch.
> 
> Low 30's was my budget.
> 
> I cant believe the extra $$ charge for older Case-IH iron compared to McCormick.
> 
> Is 5-9 Cummins worth extra $$ over 6L Perkins?


Not in my book ! Perkins are known as good dependable engines. My only concern (out of ignorance) would be the dromone hitch


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## slowzuki

Concern? The main concern is the regular north american drawbar hasn't gone missing. Lots of UK folks toss it in the corner of the shed instead of leaving it on the storage bracket so they go missing.

Its much handier than installing a hammer strap to deal with pintles.



Trillium Farm said:


> Not in my book ! Perkins are known as good dependable engines. My only concern (out of ignorance) would be the dromone hitch


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## JD3430

Trillium Farm said:


> Not in my book ! Perkins are known as good dependable engines. My only concern (out of ignorance) would be the dromone hitch


Perkins over Cummins? 
Enlighten me, for I am a greenhorn.


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## JD3430

PaCustomBaler said:


> Hey JD, see you're still looking for a new whip. Can't tell you much about all that green or red iron people have been posting. As for blue iron, go for a Genesis series or go to a T7000 series. Piss poor reviews of TM series and you can't find TG's with front PTO.
> 
> Look up AgriAffaires for euro equipment. There's a bunch of importers that sell on there. Figure on $5k to get one to this side of the pond.
> 
> For the price of equipment over there, not sure why someone would spend twice the money on an american tractor of the same hours and condition.
> 
> Good luck, cheers


Did some looking today on agri affaires. Good, easy to use website. Not a ton of MX-170's, but I did see 2 in France for ~$24,000 + vat and shipping.
Have yet to check 8670's. 
Brings me a few thousand less than what they're asking here.
I wonder if it's worth the hassle that's bound to come with it?????


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## slowzuki

Most countries the VAT is either 0 rated or refundable for export. Just checked, anywhere you buy in european union for export out of EU, no VAT applies.



JD3430 said:


> Did some looking today on agri affaires. Good, easy to use website. Not a ton of MX-170's, but I did see 2 in France for ~$24,000 + vat and shipping.
> Have yet to check 8670's.
> Brings me a few thousand less than what they're asking here.
> I wonder if it's worth the hassle that's bound to come with it?????


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## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> Perkins over Cummins?
> Enlighten me, for I am a greenhorn.


Pretty sure he wasn't saying Perkins over Cummins, but instead saying no to your question of whether the Cummins is worth significantly more.


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## JD3430

the Perkins sounded really good. Actually "out-snorted" the Cummins.


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## Grateful11

The only Perkins I've ever had any dealings with was in a large forklift. It was smooth, started easy and ran and ran. While no where near as big as what would be in a tractor of this size I wouldn't be afraid of it. I've heard they're known to be fairly simple engines to work on.


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## slowzuki

Perkapillars so you can call it by its cat designation if it makes you feel better!

They have sleeves/liners so you can rebuild them a bit easier too.


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## Gearclash

JD3430 said:


> the Perkins sounded really good. Actually "out-snorted" the Cummins.


Huh. My 7.5L TM120 sound like more of a real tractor than my MXs do too when idling. Full power is a different story, and the 5.9 uses less fuel.


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## Trillium Farm

JD3430 said:


> Perkins over Cummins?
> Enlighten me, for I am a greenhorn.


Not what I meant. I meant that cummins wasn't worth the extra money.


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## MDill

There is a JD7930 coming up in Macfadden's spring auction, I'm sure it won't be cheap but it's 4wd, cab, front 3pt hitch and pto. Might be worth a look.


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## JD3430

Well, low & behold I found yet another McCormick with 8,900hrs Perkins 6L for almost nothing.

It has everything I want. Hours are really up there tho......

What is it with McCormicks? Why are they so cheap? It's a Case-IH made in England with a Perkins diesel in it and different decals.

Inside the cab ZERO difference. Might even be a little nicer!


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## Gearclash

My guess is lack of dealer support. Whenever I compared McCormick values with CIH MX Maxxum I found that Macs were higher priced, but I was looking more at 5,000 hour machines.

May have to look for another MX this year as I will try to find a new home the TM.


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> My guess is lack of dealer support. Whenever I compared McCormick values with CIH MX Maxxum I found that Macs were higher priced, but I was looking more at 5,000 hour machines.
> 
> May have to look for another MX this year as I will try to find a new home the TM.


I hate being in this position. I really want an MX-170, but I can get a Mc for 25% cheaper!!!!


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## 8350HiTech

JD3430 said:


> I hate being in this position. I really want an MX-170, but I can get a Mc for 25% cheaper!!!!


What was it that you said in another thread ... (*Mike Myers Wayne's World noises*)



JD3430 said:


> Life's gotta have some FUN in it, too......even if it doesn't "pencil out".


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## thendrix

That 25% cheaper would be hard to pass up but remember you'll have to have parts at some point. These things don't run forever and that 25% might not look so good when your waiting a week or more for parts to arrive.

If you have some kind of dealer support reasonably close then the cheaper starts making a lot more sense


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## JD3430

thendrix said:


> That 25% cheaper would be hard to pass up but remember you'll have to have parts at some point. These things don't run forever and that 25% might not look so good when your waiting a week or more for parts to arrive.
> 
> If you have some kind of dealer support reasonably close then the cheaper starts making a lot more sense


Apparently parts are cheaper than case-IH, but dealer support is below average.

I can survive without great parts support. From what HTR tells me, they can get Mc parts overnight.

Full confession: It's not a MUST have, but sure would be nice in front of (or behind) discbine and to pull my spreader. Since money is tight, maybe this is a great alternative to paying 25% more for a brand name.

You could swap hoods with an MX-170 and wouldn't really know the difference.

It's interesting the whole 5.9 Cummins v. 6L Perkins comparison....

McCormick actually has the 6L Perkins in a tractor thats 173HP.

Case-IH stopped the 5.9 Cummins at 170. (MX-170). Of course the 5-9 can be turned up quite a bit.

The 6L in the MTX175 is 513 ft lb @ 1400RPM.

Cant find torque rating on MX-170.

Barely any difference, but worth mentioning...


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## thendrix

As long as parts availability is there I would look very hard at McCormick. If they're that closely related to the MX there may be parts that interchange in a bind.

As for brand names, I'm not loyal to any. If it does what I want and I can depend on it to do what I want then the color and name doesn't matter. I get a sense you feel the same way JD.


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## JD3430

Yeah it's just a MX tooling taken over by McCormick and a switch from Cummins to Perkins.
I guess the downside is bad resale value and at 8900 hours, it's no "spring chicken".
Thing is, another dealer wants $6,500 more for MTX 155 with 8,000 hours.
So you save $6,500, get next size up more powerful tractor, same features, but add 900 hr.


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## slowzuki

Watched a fendt 926 vario series with front pto and hitch sell for 31,000$ Canadian at the Ritchie bros auction in Montreal!

My bid limit was much lower luckily. It did have 12k hours though.

https://www.rbauction.com/2000-FENDT-926-Vario?invId=8857410&id=ci&auction=MONTREAL-QC-2016295


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## slowzuki

I guess my link is dead now the auction is over but it was this tractor:


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## Hawk40

Does Case IH have better transmissions and shifter linkage than the older IH's? I've always had deeres but have operated a lot of 1486's back in high school days and liked them but always found changing gears to be cumbersome and slow compared to JD's quad range and really bad compared to the power shift. My only remaining IH is my anteater, which I really like for some reason but have completely lost reverse in it. It's a really great pulling tractor, just have to be careful where I park it.


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## Widairy

Depends what you're using them for. I grew up on white and Oliver tractors, run mainly Deere now. I have driven just about everything over the years. The old 86 series were pretty bad. I have a 7110 case now. Bought it about 2 years ago to get a bigger tractor for chopping hay. The full power shift is great between gears but to go from forward to reverse it leaves some room for improvement. Definitely not a first choice for a round baler tractor. For chopping or tillage or hauling manure it works well, but is definitely a step or two down from the 4455s we were looking at but couldn't afford at the time.


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## JD3430

Yeah, I found a perfect Magnum 7120-twin PTO screws, flotations, front PTO/3PT, but the low road speed and RH reverser gave me pause.


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## PaMike

Can you run at full road speed on your tight twisty roads?


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## JD3430

Not on the twisty roads, but its nice on the Rt. 1 bypass!


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## stack em up

High road speed is nice, but we very rarely use it with heavy implements. I'm too jittery about hitch pins coming loose I guess. I think our fastest tractor is the LT75 at 26, the MT665 tops at maybe 23. Like an old neighbor said once of his old beater pickup, "goes fast enough to kill ya"


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## JD3430

The Magnums are real plodders, though. I think 19MPH is all they'll do.


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## stack em up

JD3430 said:


> The Magnums are real plodders, though. I think 19MPH is all they'll do.


A lot depends on tire size versus what CIH/Nebraska Test measured speed with.


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## slowzuki

My 5455 is a 25 mph tractor and we live on a rough narrow road. Its handy at times for towing wagons or the baler. Most of the other stuff doesn't like the rough road and gets to dancing around. I should say I have to slow down crossing some rough patches as I've seen the baler bounce a full foot in the air.

I really don't like my kubota for roading, it is only 16 mph or something silly like that because I have small diameter tires on it.


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## Gearclash

My brother's 7140s are definitely faster than 19 mph. Not 25 though, although the MFD with 20.8 x 42 rears is probably good for 23 mph.


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## JD3430

stack em up said:


> A lot depends on tire size versus what CIH/Nebraska Test measured speed with.


Here's the test, but why would they measure speed with 38's? The tire size is 42 on a 7120, right?

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/001/1/9/1192-caseih-7120-transmission.html


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## Gearclash

Many of the 71s especially the smaller models had 38s. Pretty sure my brothers 2wd 7140 had 38s before he got it. 42s were a much better choice though.


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## PaCustomBaler

Nice whip JD, I'm partial to those Zuidberg linkages.

I like the 40kph speed...fast enough to get somewhere but not too fast to feel unsafe with a drawbar implement w/o brakes.


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## JD3430

Yeh I really liked that one. It's in New London, Ohio.


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