# Good tool...



## ARD Farm

I'm always trimming trees here. Enroaching trees on field lines or storm damage is an ongoing task here, as we have lots of trees. Been doing some aerial work around the farmhouse (at one time I was a professional tree climber/arborist, those times are long gone, it's a young man's profession) but I still have the harness and bull topes and climbers so limited work is possible..... I know my limits, I'm not a young buck anymore....... :lol:

I would not suggest it for untrained, it's dangerous for one and using a powersaw in a tree that is designed for ground work (bucking) can be lethal. Hire it done. I just happen to have the tools and experience and that includes a professional arborist top handle limbing chainsaw.

Back to the tool aspect.....

I believe we all possess chainsaws, they are tools we all need in some capacity. I've always been a hand filer, using a file guide either in the shop or with a stump vise and the saw clamped in it. Problem with hand filing is your gullet angle drifts a bit (the gullet is the crescent shaped cutout in the front of every tooth and that does the cutting). Recently, I found a neat tool called the Timberline Sharpener. Basically what it is, is an extruded aluminum block with guides that accept a solid Tungsten Carbide cutter or commonly called a burr. It has a pawl arrangement the indexes every tooth in the exact same spot and allows precision cutting of the gullet, a very uniform cut at the correct angle. They come with whatever diameter cutter you need, in my case I run 2 fifferent pitches, a 325 pitch and a 404 pitch so I ordered 2 cutters. Cutter life is at least 40 sharpenings on an average length bar (20-26 inches). It comes with very simple instructions anf the learning curve is about 5 minutes plus it made here in America. Comes in a nice pouch that holds the tool, cutters and instructions in case you need them. You will still need to hand file the rakers, something I like to do anyway and something that don't need to be done everythime a chain is sharpened, the raker controls tha anount of cut the tooth benind it can take...

With the tool, I can field dress the chain and keep it really sharp. A sharp chain really cuts, we have all tried to cut with a dull chain, no fun, eats fuel and is actually dangerous because it increases the likleyhood of kickback.

You can buy it direct from Timberline www.timberline.com or on Amazon or at Baileys at www.baileysonline.com Cost is around 95 bucks for the tool itself and cutters are around 25 bucks each and they come in 4 or 5 diameters depending on your chain pitch. Not as cheap as a file (normally, a file will last about one chain and then needs replaced anyway) but it's much more consistent and accurate because it eliminates the human error in filing the gullet angle.

Lots of chainsaw owners take their chains to a shop to have them ground when dull. All well and good, however, the accuracy of the grind depends entirely on the skill of the operator for one, two, when you have your chains ground, they usually take off way more tooth metal than is actually necessary (shortening the chain life) and three, agressive grinding can take the temper out of the teeth, rendering the chain soft so when you use it, it dulls right away. The timberline is a COLD cut so the temper of the tooth is never at issue plus you can control how much metal is removed during each sharpening, prolonging the life of the chain.

IMO, it's a worthwhile investment, if, you use a chainsaw regulatly like I do. Even if you don't, nothing beats a surgically sharp chainsaw and the Timberline provides that with basically no skill needed on the part of the owner.


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## carcajou

You passed on some very good advice for the novice chain saw guy. Bars have gotten expensive and a sharp chain saves a lot of bar wear. What's your opinion on who makes the best chain saw files? I have found Stihl the best of what i have tried but maybe there is a better file out there.


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## ARD Farm

carcajou said:


> You passed on some very good advice for the novice chain saw guy. Bars have gotten expensive and a sharp chain saves a lot of bar wear. What's your opinion on who makes the best chain saw files? I have found Stihl the best of what i have tried but maybe there is a better file out there.


Pferd is the best. No file will last very long because the cutter is almost as hard as the fille but I use Pferd when I do file which is rarely now. Pferd also makes a dandy bar file and guide. You can file your bar rails square again and remove the burr with it. Keep in mind that Stihl just rebrands the files they sell so they may be Pferd labelled Stihl.

I run Oregon roller nose bars and Oregon gold link chain. Years ago, Stihl had some good chain but Oregon is jsut as good if not better today and you can find some deals on Oregon chain and bars on the Internet.

If you know how to spin rivets and break chain, spool lengths make it really cheap. Thats how I used to do it when I cut every day but now, I run 2 loops to a bar and when both loops are done, I toss the bar and loops and start over. I always check the drive sprocket too, I like Stihl bar oil, buy it in 5 one gallon jugs.

No chain will last hitting nains, or rocks or running it in the dirt.

Always wear PPE when using a chainsaw. Kevlar multi layered chaps, hard hat with face shield and ear plugs as well as hard soled shoes and long pants and long sleeved shirt. You might sweat on a hot day but a saw chain can amputate a limb is a second or give you a deep and painful laceration. Been there done that and have the scars to prove my stupidity, more than once I might add.


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## Grateful11

Interesting looking tool. I have a Granberg Guide that I picked up at a yard sale I've never used. Having been a Machinist and Toolmaker for 30 years I've never had any problem hand filing my chains for a quick touch up. If they get a little out of whack I use an odd looking guide picked up years ago.

I agree that Pferd files are the best. I bought a couple dozen of different sizes many, many years ago and have yet to use them all but I'm not able to handle a saw like I once did, my back and leg just deal with it. I have a little Stihl MS180 I can deal with for short periods. In my day I had a Husqvarna 371XP with a 24" bar, that one was stolen. Replaced it with a used Stihl 046 Magnum, heck of a saw. Ah to have a good body again.

I actually made a jig to go in a vise to hold any size chain and you can lock it down quickly for hand filing. It looks similar to a chain clamp on an electric chain sharpener but much heavier and longer.

Interesting thread about the Timberline:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-chain-sharpener.180488/






Granberg Guide:


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## Bonfire

ARD Farm said:


> Always wear PPE when using a chainsaw. Kevlar multi layered chaps, hard hat with face shield and ear plugs as well as hard soled shoes and long pants and long sleeved shirt. You might sweat on a hot day but a saw chain can amputate a limb is a second or give you a deep and painful laceration. Been there done that and have the scars to prove my stupidity, more than once I might add.


I was cutting up a fallen tree. I had something to do back at the office. I gave the saw and PPE to an employee to continue the work. Came back 30 minutes later and the guy had hit the inside of his right leg below the knee. Chain caught the chaps. The fiber fill in the chaps plugged the bar up tight and stopped the chain. Scared the hell outa him. PPE is cheap compared to the alternative.


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## deadmoose

ARD Farm said:


> I'm always trimming trees here. Enroaching trees on field lines or storm damage is an ongoing task here, as we have lots of trees. Been doing some aerial work around the farmhouse (at one time I was a professional tree climber/arborist, those times are long gone, it's a young man's profession) but I still have the harness and bull topes and climbers so limited work is possible..... I know my limits, I'm not a young buck anymore....... :lol:
> 
> I would not suggest it for untrained, it's dangerous for one and using a powersaw in a tree that is designed for ground work (bucking) can be lethal. Hire it done. I just happen to have the tools and experience and that includes a professional arborist top handle limbing chainsaw.
> 
> Back to the tool aspect.....
> 
> I believe we all possess chainsaws, they are tools we all need in some capacity. I've always been a hand filer, using a file guide either in the shop or with a stump vise and the saw clamped in it. Problem with hand filing is your gullet angle drifts a bit (the gullet is the crescent shaped cutout in the front of every tooth and that does the cutting). Recently, I found a neat tool called the Timberline Sharpener. Basically what it is, is an extruded aluminum block with guides that accept a solid Tungsten Carbide cutter or commonly called a burr. It has a pawl arrangement the indexes every tooth in the exact same spot and allows precision cutting of the gullet, a very uniform cut at the correct angle. They come with whatever diameter cutter you need, in my case I run 2 fifferent pitches, a 325 pitch and a 404 pitch so I ordered 2 cutters. Cutter life is at least 40 sharpenings on an average length bar (20-26 inches). It comes with very simple instructions anf the learning curve is about 5 minutes plus it made here in America. Comes in a nice pouch that holds the tool, cutters and instructions in case you need them. You will still need to hand file the rakers, something I like to do anyway and something that don't need to be done everythime a chain is sharpened, the raker controls tha anount of cut the tooth benind it can take...
> 
> With the tool, I can field dress the chain and keep it really sharp. A sharp chain really cuts, we have all tried to cut with a dull chain, no fun, eats fuel and is actually dangerous because it increases the likleyhood of kickback.
> 
> You can buy it direct from Timberline www.timberline.com or on Amazon or at Baileys at www.baileysonline.com Cost is around 95 bucks for the tool itself and cutters are around 25 bucks each and they come in 4 or 5 diameters depending on your chain pitch. Not as cheap as a file (normally, a file will last about one chain and then needs replaced anyway) but it's much more consistent and accurate because it eliminates the human error in filing the gullet angle.
> 
> Lots of chainsaw owners take their chains to a shop to have them ground when dull. All well and good, however, the accuracy of the grind depends entirely on the skill of the operator for one, two, when you have your chains ground, they usually take off way more tooth metal than is actually necessary (shortening the chain life) and three, agressive grinding can take the temper out of the teeth, rendering the chain soft so when you use it, it dulls right away. The timberline is a COLD cut so the temper of the tooth is never at issue plus you can control how much metal is removed during each sharpening, prolonging the life of the chain.
> 
> IMO, it's a worthwhile investment, if, you use a chainsaw regulatly like I do. Even if you don't, nothing beats a surgically sharp chainsaw and the Timberline provides that with basically no skill needed on the part of the owner.


I am a little confused. So did you buy one of these:http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Parts/Grinders-Sharpening/Bar-Mounted/Timberline-Chainsaw-Chain-Sharpener-Please-remember-to-order-the-correct-tungsten-carbide-cutter-for-your-chain-This-unit-does-NOT-come-with-the-Cutter.axd then multiple carbides for different saws or do different chain sizes require a different tool?

I may have to take your tip and purchase one. I know my filing job is far from perfect. Today I put a new chain on my little saw (ms270) and did a little bucking. It reminded me how well my other saw should cut (ms362). I hate a dull chain.


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## ARD Farm

Grateful, one more year and I'll be on Medicare so I'm no youngster either. I still have my big Stihl 075 with a 36" roller nosed 404 square tooth chipper chain. It's a bear and I keep it because it's old school...like me. Sounds like a dirt bike when it runs.......

One reason I like the top handled arborist saws. Light weight and easy to handle and start

Being a card carrying Tool and Die Maker myself, I appreciate well executed and domestically made tools and the Timberline is all of that. You'll find both my Gerstner tool chests are full of LSS and Brown and Sharpe tools with a smattering of Fred Fowler and Mitituoyo. I happen to be a co owner of a short run machine and die repair shop and we do a bit of heavy fabricarion too.

The hay is a hobby. The real money is in the shop.

I was a bit skeptical about the Timberline but the idea makes good sense. It's rigid and repeatable, both good attributes in our world. Rigiidity makes for accuracy and repeatability and the Timberline has that. I know, I've spun the crank numerous times now and I'm always impressed with the result. How can something so simple and straighforward do such a good job... but it does, every time.

I;ve looked at the Granberg and it relies on a sliding circular guide in a die cast support. Steel against die cast equals wear, whereas the Timberline relies on a hardened bushing that supports and guides the carbide burr so no side play or appreciable wear (Timberline recommends a drop of bar oil in the guide to lubricate the shank if the burr. Thats it. It's a good design and being a toolmaker I appreciate well executed designs.

Problem with hand filing (guide or not) is you impart inaccuracy because it's a sensative tool and requires 'feel' just like a Micrometer.. Not so with the Timberlline. The timberline forces the burr to be in alignment, it can't go in any other way. The only downfall I see it the possibility of turning the burr counter clockwide, which will immediately render the burr useless, but then we both know that cutting tools are supposed to cut right handed and are labelled left hand if they are indeed supposed to cut counterclockwide.

I've had the tool about 6 months are the more I use it, the better I like it. Makes sharpening really convient.


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## ARD Farm

deadmoose said:


> I am a little confused. So did you buy one of these:http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Parts/Grinders-Sharpening/Bar-Mounted/Timberline-Chainsaw-Chain-Sharpener-Please-remember-to-order-the-correct-tungsten-carbide-cutter-for-your-chain-This-unit-does-NOT-come-with-the-Cutter.axd then multiple carbides for different saws or do different chain sizes require a different tool?
> 
> I may have to take your tip and purchase one. I know my filing job is far from perfect. Today I put a new chain on my little saw (ms270) and did a little bucking. It reminded me how well my other saw should cut (ms362). I hate a dull chain.


The tool itself fits every pitch of chain and bar width. The carbide burrs all have the same diameter shank and all fit the guides in the tool itself. You buy the tool and order the correct burr for your chain pitch. The burr is considered a consumable, the tool isn't. The tiniest burr is for 3/8" Lo profile chain, usually low kickback consumer chain and limbing saw chain. The next size is standard 325 pitch and the next size is 404 pitch. If you have 404 square tooth chain likee I have on my 075, the tool won't work but 99% of chains today are 30 degree tooth. The tool works on them.

I think you can find it a bit cheaper on Amazon. I bought mine from Baileys because I buy my all my gear there. Thats my review on their site.


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## ARD Farm

Bonfire said:


> I was cutting up a fallen tree. I had something to do back at the office. I gave the saw and PPE to an employee to continue the work. Came back 30 minutes later and the guy had hit the inside of his right leg below the knee. Chain caught the chaps. The fiber fill in the chaps plugged the bar up tight and stopped the chain. Scared the hell outa him. PPE is cheap compared to the alternative.


My last stupid foray with a chainsaw cost mne 53 stitches across my kneecap and yes, your bones are grey, not white. I looked at my kneecap close up and personal as my boot was filling with blood. The first time was long ago and that was with my 075. A 36 inch bar takes a while to stop. Never rest a moving chain on your leg.....

What saved my butt this last time was the chain was really sharp so the 'incision' was not ragged at all. Just a matter of stitching it up and the pain killers, not for the .325 width rip, but for my kneecap. I milled a bit out of it.....

I usually make it a habit to put on my 7 layer Kevlar competition chaps but for some reason I stupidly forgot and paid dearly. That was this spring btw. At least by first cut I was able to get in the tractor and make hay,,,,,


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## deadmoose

ARD Farm said:


> The tool itself fits every pitch of chain and bar width. The carbide burrs all have the same diameter shank and all fit the guides in the tool itself. You buy the tool and order the correct burr for your chain pitch. The burr is considered a consumable, the tool isn't. The tiniest burr is for 3/8" Lo profile chain, usually low kickback consumer chain and limbing saw chain. The next size is standard 325 pitch and the next size is 404 pitch. If you have 404 square tooth chain likee I have on my 075, the tool won't work but 99% of chains today are 30 degree tooth. The tool works on them.
> 
> I think you can find it a bit cheaper on Amazon. I bought mine from Baileys because I buy my all my gear there. Thats my review on their site.


So I see they sell a smaller 3/8 carbide recommended for stihl chain. I have a stihl 3/8 chain with a bit of life left in it. My next chain will most likely be oregon. So I presume if I were to buy one I need tool, and 3 carbides?

One for stihl 3/8, one for .325, and one for next chain (which I would buy @ the same time. So--would I be better off buying 2 new chains and one carbide for my 3/8 chain instead?


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## mlappin

I use a Oregon sharpener on my chains, I've found if the guy doing the grinding is the same guy who pays for the chains, rarely do they get over ground.


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## ARD Farm

deadmoose.....

*So I see they sell a smaller 3/8 carbide recommended for stihl chain. I have a stihl 3/8 chain with a bit of life left in it. My next chain will most likely be Oregon. So I presume if I were to buy one I need tool, and 3 carbides?*

Every chainsaw will have the numerical pitch stamped and number of drive links on the guidebar (sometimes stamped, sometimes laser etched in), usually at the end thats closest to the power head and usually on the side where the bucking spikes are.

For consumer saws in less than 18" bar lengths Stihl uses whats called a Pico (low profile, low kickback risk chain), it takes cutter for .325 Pico

It won't matter what new chain you buy, it will still be 325 low profile because to go to a more aggressive chain, you have to change out the drive/clutch sprocket and most likely the bar. Low Pro Pico takes a 050 bar width BTW.(bar width is the space in the channel where the drive tangs ride that engage the drive sprocket and pull chain oil from the groove to lubricate the cutters and chain link pivot points.

The larger more aggressive chains require more power, are more kickback prone and usually go on longer bar lengths on mixed use (consumer/professional use) saws, none of which are usable except on the ground. All limbing saws (professional grade aerial saws are lo pro, low kickback anyway) to minimize the injury risk to the operator. Aerial saws are all top handle and short bars (10-14) and all ground (bucking saws) are rear handle so it's easy to rel the difference plus most aerial saws will have a lanyard ring on the back for attachment to a tether.

Technically, you need only 2 burrs, the little one for the Pico chain and a 325 for everything else, because you won't buy a 404 chain, thats professional use, and goes on long bars on high horsepower saws as a rule.

I've purposely stayed away from chainsaw brands simply because like tractors, we all have our favorites and we all prefer them, but, Stihl has succumbed to the, what I call 'the emissions police' as of late and Stihl saws, especially later and new models are really castrated power wise and almost all need some modification to the exhaust to run halfway decent.

I don't fault Stihl at all, in fact I have mostly Stihl saws (3) and one of another brand but the new ones lack power and thats a consideration for me.

Comparable to the Tier 4 Final emissions tractors that owners are staying away from (as evidenced by JD laying off employees at their engine facility) The way it is but unlike new tractors, chainsaw manufacturers are in voluntary compliance so some are and some aren't, Stihl is.

Don't want to start a chainsaw debate here. This is about the sharpening tool, not chainsaws in general.


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## ARD Farm

mlappin said:


> I use a Oregon sharpener on my chains, I've found if the guy doing the grinding is the same guy who pays for the chains, rarely do they get over ground.


Fair statement with a caveat and that is, grinding any chain too agressively can cause it to overheat and loose it's temper and grinding machines need 110 volts and are shop tools. This tool works as well in the field as on the bench. I've been in situations where I've hit hidden objects in wood or accidently stuck the nose of the bar in the dirt and that dulls the cutters instantly.

At that point you have 3 choices, you continue with a dull chain and push hard, file the chain employing a stump vise or use the Timberline. I like the last option and thats where I use it (Timberline) the most, on a log, saw in stump vise.

Yes, I own an Oregon chain grinder too. Cost wise, the Timberline is a bit cheaper. Sure, you have to replace the burrs but you have to replace the wheels on the grinder too. It's possible to buy a cheaper grinder (like the cheapo one at HF) but the cheaper the tool, the shorter the life and the less accurate it is. Because a chain grinder operates in 2 axis' under load, buying a cheap one isn't an option with me, but you still have the portability issue and the overheating issue, none of which come with the Timberline and/or a chain file and filing guide and finally, the grinder will not lower the rakers, you still have to flat file and radius them (as with the Timberline.

It's not for everyone (Timberline). I wanted to expose our members to it and discuss it. Nothing more and I like well executed tools, made in America.


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## mlappin

I treat my chains like my lathe carbide tools, get em hot and it's junk.

I don't let a chain get dull before I run it thru the oregon, a lot of times I just barely throw any sparks.

I take a spare chain with me for each saw as well so getting a dull chain before getting done isn't a problem.

If I do find a nail or something, I'll run that chain twice thru the Oregon instead of trying to get it sharp in one pass, two passes reduces heat buildup.

Agree with not buying junk either, stopped at Harbor Freight once but have never bought anything there.

Also agree with buying American whenever possible, even if it costs more the life of it will be longer and it usually performs the job much better.


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## mlappin

Nice find though on the Timberline, if I didn't already own the Oregon and had half a dozen spare wheels for it I would probably buy a Timberline.


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## ARD Farm

Hard to find an Amrican made and designed tool today.......

It's not for everyone, just an alternative especially if you don't already own a chain grinder and are not too proficient with a file and guide or are old and shakey...... 

You can test run mine, I get out your way ocassionally.


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## deadmoose

ARD Farm said:


> Hard to find an Amrican made and designed tool today.......
> 
> It's not for everyone, just an alternative especially if you don't already own a chain grinder and are not too proficient with a file and guide or are old and shakey......
> 
> You can test run mine, I get out your way ocassionally.


 I will probably test mine out this weekend. It arrived yesterday. I am hoping this is the ticket. Since I started sharpening my own chains probably 5 years ago when I started heating with wood I much prefer that to paying 5 bucks to get them ground down. I try to file before or after every use and more often if I am cutting more. But I am not all that good with a file. I look forward to trying my new sharpener.

On a side note-how and when do you fike your rakers? Excuse my ignorance as I never have.


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## deadmoose

I use strictly chisel chain if that makes any difference.


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## deadmoose

I just gave it a whirl. Reading directions and learning setup I forgot to time it. Next time will go much quicker. I would think that with some practice you could sharpen with this tool a bit quicker than with a file. This weekend I put a new chain on my small saw (ms270) and used it to clear trails and cut some firewood. Not too much but to the point where I would normally file. Using this it looks and feels (test will tell) sharper than a brand new chain I have for my big saw. Both oregon chains.

It appears I need a new smaller chainsaw toolbox. No need for files anymore. Or to carry stump vise. I hope.


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## ARD Farm

deadmoose said:


> I just gave it a whirl. Reading directions and learning setup I forgot to time it. Next time will go much quicker. I would think that with some practice you could sharpen with this tool a bit quicker than with a file. This weekend I put a new chain on my small saw (ms270) and used it to clear trails and cut some firewood. Not too much but to the point where I would normally file. Using this it looks and feels (test will tell) sharper than a brand new chain I have for my big saw. Both oregon chains.
> 
> It appears I need a new smaller chainsaw toolbox. No need for files anymore. Or to carry stump vise. I hope.


I'm glad somone benefited from my experience...... 

I believe you will find that the chain is sharper than factory....

I keep a stump vise in the tool pouch because I use the Timbrline in the field. Once you get proficient with it, you'll 'touch up' your chains outdoors.

Have a good friend who is a retired professional logger and I 'sharpened' one of his hand filed chains.... he's got on now as well.

Nice tool, IMO.


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## ARD Farm

deadmoose said:


> I use strictly chisel chain if that makes any difference.


As you've found out, no.

The exception is square tooth chisel, but you can't file it either, it has to be gound and square tooth chipper is profssional chain anyway. Most saws don't have the grunt to pull it and it's kickback prone so not a consumer chain.....


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## slowzuki

We have rocks here, lots of them and winter is logging season so you don't alway see them limbing in deep snow. I run full-chisel but I find the rock hits take forever to file out then you have to even up the other side.

Anyone know how much better semi-chisel is in rock?

BTW My saw pants have saved me a couple of times too, need to get a new pair as the waist band seems to have shrunk. They also smell worse than an old hockey gear bag.


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## ARD Farm

slowzuki said:


> We have rocks here, lots of them and winter is logging season so you don't alway see them limbing in deep snow. I run full-chisel but I find the rock hits take forever to file out then you have to even up the other side.
> 
> Anyone know how much better semi-chisel is in rock?
> 
> BTW My saw pants have saved me a couple of times too, need to get a new pair as the waist band seems to have shrunk. They also smell worse than an old hockey gear bag.


No comment on the waIst band shrinkage and no comment on the odor either.. Amy bought me a new pair of competition 7 layer Kevlar chaps for my birthday this year. I hang them in the broom closet when not on me....

Having played hockey in Cleveland when I was younger, I know too well the smell that a duffel stuffed with a ripe hockey uniform will emit..... especially a goalie's duffel.....

No chain I know of is good in rock...... Sounds like you too need a timberline. Makes it easier to 'fix' those rock diviots....


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## deadmoose

Saw was nice and sharp. Initial test looks good. As always time will tell the whole story.


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## ARD Farm

It performs a couple tasks really well:

One, it holds constant, the gullet angle on opposing teeth, two, it cuts each tooth uniformly but the most important aspect IMO, is, you only have to remove as much tooth as you want to.

No matter how carefully I hand filed, I always got chain wander in the kerf because holding the gullet angle constant was almost impossible., especially on a short bar....

You take a loop in to be sharpned and you'll get back a sharp chain, minus about 1/3 of the tooth, so you might get 2 sharpenings and you have no tooth left and me being cheap, I want maximum cutter life

I take as little as possible (after the first time when you must remove a bit to get your gullet angle uniform). After that, as little as possible, which is why I dress mine while I'm taking a break (and letting the wife do some work.....lol


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## ARD Farm

Just don't spin the burr backwards in the gullet. That will be the end of the carbide, it's hard and brittle.


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