# Hay too wet, hay too dry



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Geeze, I spent my rookie season so far trying to make dry hay to avoid dust and fires. Got a text from a guy I custom baled for, says horses don't like what I baled from his field. He thinks it's too dry. Bale monitor read 10-20%. Some bales were over 20%. Looked nice & light green when put in the mow.
WTH am I supposed to do?


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Put him in the Horsey Folk category.Never satisfied and always complaining.

Kinda like a bad woman,pretty soon you just say heck with her and get rid of her.

Life is to short for putting up with some people!


----------



## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I don't know what kind of grass it was, but my normal reaction is that his horses just aren't hungry enough yet. As long as it's not mouldy, give them a few days and they'll probably be fine.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

My reply back to him was "it's probably because you are switching to a new-tasting hay and the horses need a little time to adapt to it. Not unlike when you switch dog foods and your dog hurls it up the first few times."

Thought it sounded good, anyways.....


----------



## HWooldridge (Oct 13, 2010)

You can't base quality on one person's complaint. Horse people usually twist a handful of hay to see if it breaks but if it's that nice light green color and smells good then most animals will eat it.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, light green and no bad smell. May be a little stemmy as is all 1st cutting hay in PA


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Stemmy is good. It does not cause compaction during the winter months when the horses drink less water. Horses need more roughage during the winter
I read that in a Natural Horsemanship article 10 years ago and have been using it ever since.


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tim/South said:


> Stemmy is good. It does not cause compaction during the winter months when the horses drink less water. Horses need more roughage during the winter
> I read that in a Natural Horsemanship article 10 years ago and have been using it ever since.


I've heard the same about cattle, not that a compaction is a problem. But around here for years always heard gotta give em more grain in the winter so they can stay warm. But I've seen a few articles advising people against giving their equines more grain in the winter to help em keep warm as they generated more body heat digesting hay than grain.

If it gets cold enough in the winter I don't make the beef cows clean everything up before refilling the feeders and like to see that they have a choice between dry hay, silage bales, corn stalks and bean stubble bales if I have em. Our cows have over wintered in the woods for 6 or 7 years now doing this and I haven't lost one yet.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I agree.
Heat is generated from the fermenting that occurs when hay is digested.


----------



## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

JD


JD3430 said:


> My reply back to him was "it's probably because you are switching to a new-tasting hay and the horses need a little time to adapt to it. Not unlike when you switch dog foods and your dog hurls it up the first few times."
> 
> Thought it sounded good, anyways.....


I'm in here in PA and my wife has 3 horses, our horses are not picky but when spoiled with really nice 2nd cutting hay it will take them a few days to adjust, now that i'm doin my own baling i'm just learning also, they are eating everything i put to um, if theres something there they don't like they push it to the side oh well, but i realize you are selling it. It's tough to keep the fancy horse people happy from what i understand. We sold 240 bales right of of the field to a big horse stable and i thought it was to green/wet but they loved it called us back few days later and said they would buy the rest of my neighbors hay once it was baled. But they feed 10 bales a day so if it was a little wet they will go threw it in no time. We sell it for 3.00 right out of the field.

Also if they have the horses out to pasture in nice green pastures they arn't going to want to eat much hay this time of year. Our horses go back and forth free range from pasture to barn. When's it real hot like it's been they come in the barn and devower the hay otherwise they stay out to pasture.

Don't sweat but question him on the pastures


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I have had some arrogant hay buyers on occassion and I do not show them alot of patience or regard if they get too overbearing..... several have said to me over the years "I do not know if MY horses will eat that or not" which I politely but emphatically reply...Lady or Buddy...if your horses won't eat that, you need to get rid of them....after a stunned moment or two they always say "well I'll TRY this many".....and they ALWAYS come back for more.

Regards, Mike


----------



## HWooldridge (Oct 13, 2010)

If someone shows up and is unsure about our hay, I usually give them one bale for free (small square) and let them try it. When I make that offer, most people will go ahead and buy at least 10-20 bales rather than take one for free.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I would remind the guy that you baled his field. The weather dictates whether the hay was put up too soon or too late. As long as you are with in the proper baling window you have done your part.
The quality of the grass is his area of management.
I know my horses will not dig into hay if the ground needs lime. Acid soil will make a pretty bale. It will not have the same flavor as when the field has a roper PH.
If his horses are not eating the hay baled from his field then I would suggest a soil analysis.
The best chef out there can not make butter biscuits out of corn bread mix.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> I would remind the guy that you baled his field. The weather dictates whether the hay was put up too soon or too late. As long as you are with in the proper baling window you have done your part.
> The quality of the grass is his area of management.
> *I know my horses will not dig into hay if the ground needs lime. Acid soil will make a pretty bale. It will not have the same flavor as when the field has a roper PH.*
> If his horses are not eating the hay baled from his field then I would suggest a soil analysis.
> The best chief out there can not make butter biscuits out of corn bread mix.


I never knew that.


----------



## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> I never knew that.


Me neither, never thought about it. We are all learning here from each other, & that's what we are here for. Of course, I'm learning lot more than I'm teaching.....Thanks, fellers!!


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You cut the field and baled, that's your only job and they only thing that's part of your job is the moisture content....10-20 is good on tester....your job is done...management is his problem, the only thing he could possibly resort to in order to blame someone other than himself was moisture.....and he did.....that should tell you volumes about him....I would not bale for this chickshit ever again....never.....people in today's society wants to blame someone else for their own screwed up happenings, never take responisbility for your actions (on inactions) its far too easy to blame someone else! Life is too short to deal with idiots like this.......my .02


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

He paid me and didn't really complain. I'm just surprised his horsies don't like it. It was baled up in ideal conditions. Nice & light green/sand colored. Moisture was 10-20%.


----------



## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a field that I bale for a customer and she's not too happy with the hay. Same thing it's the best it could be baled but full of weeds and low yeild. I offered to set up a managenent program on the field for fertalizing and spraying for weeds. It's up to her if she wants to do it or not but the offer is there to make the situation better for both of us because she gets better quality and more quantity and I get more bales and it's alot nicer baling hay and not weeds. I would offer to send a sample of the hay and the soil out and see what could be done to make it better.


----------



## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

This is why it takes thick skin to sell hay to people/do custom jobs. You cant let these types of things bother u. If his barn burns down because the hay was to wet, then you have a problem. Other than that, it doesnt matter what his horses will or will not eat. After you do this for awhile you will come to understand what I mean. I could give you countless examples of similar things. You can sometimes show the same hay to two people and they might give you two different answers. Part of this, like any business is knowing your customers. I have someone I put up hay for, it doesnt matter what the quality of the hay is per say, just the number of bales that are in the field at the end of the day. Now does that make much sense? Not really. But the customer enjoys seeing more bales. So what do I do? Lighten the bales up a little to make sure there are as many bales as possible and make sure the fertilizer is on early to boost as much yield as possible. Yes, this is a horsey customer as well. haha. I also have some customers that want a greener hay and others that want more dry hay. So I make it a point to cater to what they want. Point being, dont let the little things bother u!


----------



## jdhayboy (Aug 20, 2010)

Had two thoughts of mine by this thread Tim south. One being digestibility of larger stemmed hay. I was telling a customer, I thought bigger stemmed hay wud be less likely to cause compaction. Then they asked how I knew that... I said I don't. Then I showed them some Jiggs and some common. And showed them why because it just seemed to me the smaller stem wud be easier to ball up. Not sure if my logic is true or not??

#2 that high acid soils wud make hay taste different. In 2010, I knew our fields were due/overdue for lime. One particular patch of Alicia grass problems off every cutting that year. To many people said there animals weren't eating it. I was like WTF the hay was perfect, looked great and was dry as cud be. I kept telling my dad, think its the soil its to out of balance. 2 tons of lime that fall, drought came hardly no rain until January 2012. Lime was just starting to go to work. We cut and baled that field and I'm wondering whats gonna happen. One week later phone call, I've busted 3 bales and horses aren't touching it. WTF We exchange them and horses eat other hay with no problem.once again, I said I'm telling u its the soil!

So thanks Tim for sharing your experience and thanks JD3430 for starting the thread. That has been bothering the hell out of me.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's interesting.....Perhaps they r not hungry enough


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

There are hundreds why horses won't eat. Among them are:

#1 - Most horses are overfed, overweight and under-utilized.
#2 - Would you rather eat steak or tofu? Horses will wait 2-3 days for the "good" stuff. Or they'll pick out the good stuff, trample the poorer stuff and holler "Hey, feed me!"
#3 - Grass hay can have certain weeds in it, like horse nettle or sourdock, that have small thorns or taste bad and will spread throughout a flake..
#4 - Hay can be too dry.
#5 - Hay can have too much ash or dust in it.
#6 - Hay can be just a slight bit moldy with us being able to see it.
#7 - First cutting grass hay seed stems can be past prime, too strawlike.
#8 - Alfalfa stems, especially first and second cuttings, can be too coarse, not enough leaf.
#9 - Horses are skeptical of changes, like new feed. It sometimes takes 3-4 days for them to accept a different type of hay.
#10 - Most horse owners feed too much at one time, expecting their horse to eat a "meal", rather than graze 18-20 hours a day.

I could go on, but I won't.

Ralph


----------



## Starvation Plantaton (May 16, 2011)

Some people will complain no matter what. I had a neighbor who was in need of custom baling. We made the deal- He would mow, rake and call when ready. I bailed it up just like mine (nice and tight). When he came out to the field his first comment was "Did'nt make much hay", Told him that these bales were 6'x 6' and tight (no sagging or soft),He was use to another fella who baled them fast and loose.
His next complaint was he could'nt pick them up with his tractor, So I moved them for him. his last complaint was they were too hard, the cows had to eat from the outside and could'nt pull the centers out.
Needless to say this was the last custom job for him. Next year he calls and ask if I could do it again- told him I was too busy!
Funny all my other customers loved the bails- said they lasted 2-3 days longer and had less waste. I guess you can't win them all?


----------



## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't understand how grass hay in your area JD could be too dry? You have by far more humidity then we do here in Colorado I'm sure. I won't bale grass hay when it is 98 degrees with 10% humidity, but you bet I would if for some reason the hay was cured and we had 98 degrees with 35-40% humidity. I see people all the time making stem alfalfa here at 10% humidity.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Teslan,
Totally agree. I think some people have more money than brains....Know what I mean?


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

CockrellHillFarms said:


> This is why it takes thick skin to sell hay to people/do custom jobs. You cant let these types of things bother u. If his barn burns down because the hay was to wet, then you have a problem. Other than that, it doesnt matter what his horses will or will not eat. After you do this for awhile you will come to understand what I mean. I could give you countless examples of similar things. You can sometimes show the same hay to two people and they might give you two different answers. Part of this, like any business is knowing your customers. I have someone I put up hay for, it doesnt matter what the quality of the hay is per say, just the number of bales that are in the field at the end of the day. Now does that make much sense? Not really. But the customer enjoys seeing more bales. So what do I do? Lighten the bales up a little to make sure there are as many bales as possible and make sure the fertilizer is on early to boost as much yield as possible. Yes, this is a horsey customer as well. haha. I also have some customers that want a greener hay and others that want more dry hay. So I make it a point to cater to what they want. Point being, dont let the little things bother u!


I have a really thick skin because thats all I do. Everything is custom on owned fields because these owners find out the hard way that the equipment has to be good and thats expensive, that it's really a science to get a quality bale or round playing Russian Roulette with Ms. Nature and it's a continuing program. I manage the fields, soli test, fertilize, harvest, certify nutrient content of the forage and replant if necessary. If the forage needs to be put up in a loft ot in a building stacked, we have the crew. If it needs trucked, we have the trucking available. I'm into one-stop shopping and my customers appreciate it.

Horse people, in general are idiots. I have no tolerance for idiots. I have less tolerance for scammers.

I prefer cattlemen and exotic animal owners (like Lamas). I handle a commercial wool (Alpaca) producers hayfields and it's a turnkey operation for him and me. It took a few years to develop a relationship but now it's like he reads my mind. I think about cutting and he calls me. He went through the DIY harvest scenario with clapped out haytools and found out, like most, that half the battle is having good working equipment and half is knowing when to cut and when to not cut.

I also do personal field checks and keep in touch with all my customers on a weekly basis during the growing season and mosre ofteh if necessary, like now during this not so good dry spell.

One thing I do that may or may not be doable for most people is I bill for services once yearly and carry all the expense. Of course I do a credit check going in but it's less paperwork and aggrivation. I sub the fertilization (granular) out and Litchfield Labs does my soil analysis and nutrient tests.

My customers are tendered a bill for services based on the Michigan Custom Rate Schedule except for analysis and fertilization and of course all paid invoices paid by me for them are forwarded to them with their statement.

I have as much as I can efficiently handle in a timely fashion.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

In addition to my agricultural life, I am also involved in Retail Tourism in a town just outside of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park......the most visited park in the U.S. I have said this before and I will say this again. Its not just horsey people....its people in general. A incredible amount of people that I see in daily business that have children are incapable of fair and proper supervision of their children. They let their young children run wild in stores and let them do as they please. These are the same people that own horses or whatever. People today have a entitled attitude and are really incapable of decision making. If they make mistakes, they do not accept responsibility for them and want others to correct or bear the costs of their mistakes. We have become a God-less nation of WEAK, self-righteous/centered, greedy people. We have seen and met the enemy......and yes it is us.

Regards, Mike


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike you are a wise and informed gentleman.
Just to drive your point home, turn on a TV sometime and look at what a nation full of dumbed down idiots most of our citizens (legal and illegal) have become.
I can't take much more of it. I'm worrying about doing the right thing, paying taxes, filling out forms, subjecting myself to urinalysis to O/O a couple CDL vehicles, probing bales for moisture, teaching my kids the right way and I find out 100 million of our citizens are receiving federal aid watching 50+" TV's and texting while eating cheese curls on the couch saving for their next tatt (nothing against a good tat, just sayin'....).
Then we got this clown running our country into the ground and pandering to the 100 million to get re-elected.
On top of all that, I feel like the outcast, the throwback, the strange one for doing what my dad told me to do.
Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

JD , I have found out this ... Some people you can suit all the time , some people some of the time , and some people none of the time ..

Talking about TV shouldn't we have more reaity TV .... PLEASE NO !


----------



## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

JD, I feel ya, brother. I'm right there beside ya......just don't get me started on the money I work for going to some no-good POS, that's too d**n sorry to do anything to _earn_ a dollar.


----------



## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

...................We have seen and met the enemy......and yes it is us...............

Mike, no truer words have even been written.

Thats why our society and government is what it is today.....


----------



## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

The horses were probably spoiled with to good of hay that they didn't really need. We have 3 horses and yes i try and give um good hay but they don't need it. I have baled some very weedy hay the last few years and they eat it and push to the side what they don't like, i look at as if they consume it at much lower pace as if they were grazing then lol. I think the price range is what gets the people expecting so much from there hay, the little bit of hay that i may have extra or that gets rained on that i sell for 2-3 dollars a bale people can't complain about that right? lol. My aunt wants to buy my good hay straight O grass small squares for $5 a bale that's 2nd cut now and, i'm hesitant for one i won't have enough hay but i can buy hay for much less. They are use to payin $6 a bale for 2nd and 3rd cut O grass.

I've heard from a lot of old timers around me that are dairy and beef farmers that back in the days when they had cows and a few horses the cows got the good hay and the horses got the junk. , i went for 3 years of buying cheap hay for our horses and they did just fine on it now then again ours are just pleasure horses.

I just don't think i would waste my time, theres way to much valuable time and hard labor that goes into making hay to have someone put you down when they don't know what all is involved. My .02 cents


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Update: He gave all the hay I made from his fields for him to a horse rescue. His comment to me was "the rescue horses loved it".
I think his hay burners were used to leafy 2nd cutting from last year and he didn't gve them enough time to adjust to the 1st cutting I made for him. The weird thing is, when I made the hay and brought it in, I took a bale and fed them a couple wafers and they ate it.


----------

