# New Idea 5209 hp requirement



## happyfarmer (Sep 10, 2014)

I currently use a New Idea 5409 9' 3 pt mower on a JD 2640 (70 pto hp). I get along fine with that, but it is beginning to wear out. I like the New Idea gear boxes and have had little trouble with it.

I'm considering changing to a carted or pull type mower. There is a NI 5209 near me for sale and I have heard good things about this mower. I would like to get a windrower to avoid having to rake, vs a straight mower.

My hay is grass but I have one 20 ac field of new seeding alfalfa, and may convert some others. I usually have 13-18% humidity during haying season so dry down is usually not a problem. Uniform dry down is a problem, as light grass drys at a much different rate than the heavy grass. I'm putting this up in 4x5 rounds - NH BR740

All of my neighbors mow/condition/windrow and then bale the windrow directly.

I usually use a V rake to put the two 9' swaths together. If fertilized, the hay is usually to heavy to combine, and fit through the back of the V reliably. I then use an old side delivery which ropes the hay.

Is my 70 hp JD enough to run a disc mower and the rubber roller conditioner?

Should I consider a Kuhn flail type instead? That would have less of a horsepower requirement?

Any other thoughts or suggestions for my mow rake system?

thanks!


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

70 HP would be on low side for a 9' or bigger disc mow conditioner, no matter what color it is IMHO.

Level ground, lighter hay (2nd + cuttings), maybe 5-6 MPH, level heavy 1st, maybe 3-4 MPH. Put 80 HP, numbers could be 7-9 and 6-8 MPH.

Larry


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If you want a disc conditioner for your 2640, you've picked the right mower. I'm sure it'll pull it, the speed will depend on your terrain.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I pulled a NH 1409 with a 2640 without issues, good tractor. I traded for a 2755 with a cab, even better. I don't remember how fast I went but usually I cut in the 5mph range. Too many rocks to eat cutter bars at 8-9!


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Here's my son pulling a NH H7220 9'4" cutter running about 5 mph in Oats with a JD 5065M 65hp on the engine. It could use more HP but it does work.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

5209 will work on 50 hp in a pinch. 65 hp on the flat is tolerable. 75 on the flat is good, 85 hp will run that mower about as fast as most people want to go.

It is shaft drive in the bed and uses less hp than the gear bed mowers.


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## Farmerbrown2 (Sep 25, 2018)

My uncle pulls a NI 5209 with a IH 560 gasser for the last 15 years your Deere should be a walk in the park.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

The 5209 has a reputation for lower hp demand. Keep in mind they don't have a shear hub protection. The same/similar machine, with upgrades, is still in production today as the MF 1359.

Here is a link to a evaluation report on the 5209, including hp demands.

http://pami.ca/pdfs/reports_research_updates/(4e)%20Mowers%20and%20Mower-Conditioners/620.PDF


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

They have a rep as being tough here. Not many old Kuhn based gear beds from the 80's still running but many 3309/5209 still running here.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

leeave96 said:


> The 5209 has a reputation for lower hp demand. Keep in mind they don't have a shear hub protection.


They kind of do, but not in the usual sense. They are designed to shear the hex shaft that runs between the rotor gearboxes, but on older machines that shaft is segmented and a pain in the butt to replace.

With new bevel gears you'll find they've started machining a groove into the spline so the rotor will shear off and keep from damaging the gearbox; they also went to a single piece hex shaft at one point and gave it a necked section at the drive end so it could still provide protection, but be easier to replace.

I don't believe any of this went into place on the New Idea machines, but you'll see it on the latter Massey 1359.

Edit: Corrected for bad memory. I'll rely on slowzuki's response below to talk about the hex shaft.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

You're backwards,

The older machines had a one piece shaft. The new ones are segmented.

The shaft twists to absorb shock but when it goes too far it takes a set. The single piece shafts would get wedged in the bar once twisted so you would have to fight and torch them into pieces. The new modules have a wider hex bearing surface and short hex segments so they are far easier to repair.



Maxzillian said:


> They kind of do, but not in the usual sense. They are designed to shear the hex shaft that runs between the rotor gearboxes, but on older machines that shaft is segmented and a pain in the butt to replace.
> 
> With new bevel gears you'll find they've started machining a groove into the spline so the rotor will shear off and keep from damaging the gearbox; they also went to a single piece hex shaft at one point and gave it a necked section at the drive end so it could still provide protection, but be easier to replace.
> 
> I don't believe any of this went into place on the New Idea machines, but you'll see it on the latter Massey 1359.


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## Maxzillian (Sep 11, 2014)

slowzuki said:


> You're backwards,
> 
> The older machines had a one piece shaft. The new ones are segmented.
> 
> The shaft twists to absorb shock but when it goes too far it takes a set. The single piece shafts would get wedged in the bar once twisted so you would have to fight and torch them into pieces. The new modules have a wider hex bearing surface and short hex segments so they are far easier to repair.


Oops.... Thanks for pointing that out!


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

I run a CaseIH 3309 (same thing as the 5209) and 70 HP shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't have too many steep hills. You might not be able to run as fast as you would if you had more HP, but I can drop 4 to 4.5 acres an hour with our Ford 5000 (which really needs an engine rebuild). We usually run it on the JD 4020 or 4230 for the extra bit of HP. The cutterbars are fairly easy to fix as long as the hex shaft doesn't hang things up. The service manual says to drop the cutterbar as a unit to repair it, but I have usually pulled the individual gearboxes and slid them off the hex shaft.

Since Massey is still making the same basic design, parts availability is really good, but you might have to upgrade the hub components if any of those parts need to be replaced.


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## happyfarmer (Sep 10, 2014)

Do you guys think I will be able to bale those windrows singly ? It's the same cut width on the same fields, so I think yes but I've felt in the past, grass dried better in swath. I've waited to rake immediately prior to baling


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

The 5209 has a 9 foot cut but lays down just over a 6 foot wide swath at most. It can be narrowed up to lay down a windrow 30 inches wide and adjustment is just a hand lever which controls the swath board position, so you can play around with it and try different settings. In my neck of the woods, nobody puts dry hay in windrows when it's mowed since our climate is humid. It would be nice though, save on color and leaf retention with less handling of the hay.


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## GOOD HAY (Aug 8, 2010)

We have had a 5209 for at least 15 years now. Very reliable and well built in my opinion. At first we ran it with a CIH 595, then we moved up to a JX80, and now a NH TL 90. More hp is better but the 595 was adequate at the time at 4.5 mph in hay that ran up to 120 small squares per acre. It will work but whatever fits your budget. Around here you would never make dry hay in a tight swath. My approach is whatever it takes to get the hay dry and baled as fast as possible, lay it out wide, ted as necessary rake and bale.


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