# Wheel Rake... Too Much Hay?



## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

So I picked up this wheel rake last fall because I've been wanting to upgrade from my little side delivery rake to a V-rake, and I found this one used for a great price. The rake works really good as long as you don't try to rake more than 2 ton per acre. I tried raking almost 3 ton per acre timothy, and it would just plug up instantly (really glad that I didn't sell my little basket rake). It's very obvious that the problem is that there's not enough clearance between the frame and the ground. So now I'm thinking that I need to resell this rake (I think I can sell it for what I bought it for), and buy a higher capacity wheel rake, but I would like some experience based input from you guys before I make any more rash decisions.

Here's some more details to think about:


I hay about 100 acres of grass.
I don't want to rake any more than 20ft of tedded hay.
Rotary rakes are not hardly used around here (never see a good used one for sale) and are too expensive for a new twin rotor.
Used hydraulic baskets are a dime a dozen, but they're all 25+ft and are just too big and complicated for my smaller operation (I think).
I like the function and simplicity of the wheel rake, as long as the hay is smoothly flowing through it.

So here's my questions:


The two brands/models that are available through my dealer that I have my eye on are the New Holland Duravee 1020 or the Sitrex Explorer MX10. What are your experiences with these rakes?
Could 3 ton per acre of fluffy grass hay ever be an issue with these high capacity rakes?
Is a high capacity style rake (wheels in front of frame) more than what I need? Or would a high clearance carted rake (wheels behind frame) be more than adequate? Such as a Sitrex QRake QR10 or a New Holland Procart 1022. 

Any and all opinions are appreciated.

Thanks,

-Kyle


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Upfront disclaimer, I do not rake with a wheel rake anymore and have never operated a high capacity wheel rake.

I had a Tonutti 8 wheel carted rake about 10-12 years ago, basically similar to the rake you bought just painted a different color and 2 less wheels. Absolutely hated the thing. Was very little I liked about the rake and after a year or two parked it and went back to using NH rolabar rakes (now have a single rotary and sold the wheel rake). In heavy hay it would ball up same as you have experienced, felt it was hard to get all the hay dry, drug up on corners bad, etc.

But, the higher capacity rakes like the ones you mentioned are night and day difference from what I have observed and in talking with many producers in my area. The high capacity wheel rakes are the most common in my area among anyone making more than a few acres of hay (with rotary rakes picking up in popularity). The high cap rakes have a totally different frame design and I do not think they will plug (at least not like the older carted rakes). The wheels are on the front of the frame which I think helps fluff the hay and move it into the windrow better. The really nice part I see in them is the ability to change raking width easily (and on the go in most cases I believe) without impacting windrow width. This is one of the things I hated most about my wheel rake, to narrow up raking width really messed with the windrow width.

Most of the newer carted rakes I have looked at are also night and day different between my old wheel rake. More adjustments for changing raking width without totally messing up windrow width (not as slick as the high cap rakes though), more frame clearance, better rake wheel gauging and pressure adjustments, etc. These newer carted rakes would probably serve you well, but just not as nice as the high cap rakes. If I were to go back to a wheel rake, and I've considered it at times due to raking speed (but just like my rotary too much ), it would be with a high cap rake.

The most popular one I see in my area is the NH 1020 Duravee or whatever the previous model numbers were. I believe they are made by Sitrex, so probably the exact same rake other than paint as the Sitrex model you mention.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Some slight differences between Sitrex and a New Holland even though Sitrex builds the New Hollands.

I have a New Holland HT154 hi capacity 12 wheel rake, I made one guys first cutting in August a few years back, very heavy grass hay that was fertilized in April before the rains started, had zero issues with plugging. The nice thing about the hi capacities are you don't have to open them all the way up, so for example instead of raking 25' when mine is all the way out I can bring it in to 20' or even less.


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## reckelhoff1000 (Jul 15, 2016)

I have a New Holland Duravee 1020 and it is a good rake. It is perfect for 2.5 to 3 tons per acre. It makes a nice 5 foot windrow for my baler. I would have liked 12 wheels instead of 10 just for second cutting, but price difference was about $3500 for the two extra wheels so I went with the 10 wheel. I have not had any problems with it moving thick hay. Also I saw that you said you want to rake 20 feet of tedded hay. I also have to ted in my area so since it was going to be dry when I raked it, I did not get the center kickers put on my rake. Saved about 800 and don't regret leaving them off.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

High capacity is the only way to go with wheel rakes in my opinion.
Don't try this with a carted rake. 







These work very well too, but will run out of capacity before a high capacity wheel rake.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto on Hi-cap wheel rake. I've yet to find a crop my 14 wheel rake won't rake with no plugging


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## Dan_GA (Dec 29, 2015)

Not sure if you can or not on that rake, but adjust your raking width down to decrease the amount of hay being raked if you're plugging. I love my Kuhn SR110 speed rake, as I can adjust raking width and windrow width independently of each other.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

Dan_GA said:


> Not sure if you can or not on that rake, but adjust your raking width down to decrease the amount of hay being raked if you're plugging. I love my Kuhn SR110 speed rake, as I can adjust raking width and windrow width independently of each other.


Unfortunately this one only has an angle adjustment which mean that if you try and narrow the raking width, it'll make the windrow wider. I've got it adjust to make as wide of a windrow as possible for the pick up on my baler.

I like the way the rake works, just not in heavy hay... which make it a no go for me.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I occasionally have the same kind of problem with my Hesston 8 wheel rake.

Two things make mine work:

Lifting it a little off the ground just a little reduces the drag on the wheels and allows the crop to flow through more freely.

Or, go a little slower which again allows the crop to flow through.

The biggest challenge in working with equipment is to find solutions to the little quirks that every piece of equipment, even consecutive serial numbers of the same model, have.

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I will second what Ralph says.....especially when turning the corner. If folks would slow down turning.....almost to a crawl...they would be surprised what a difference in "slop" it would make. I also like to gently tickle the stubble tops with the rake wheel teeth. It does what Ralph says about crop flow and it also reduces ash drastically....especially on dry ground. If you have not tedded the hay out and it is in a mowed windrow then you will have to set the rake teeth deeper to "dig" out the bottom of the windrow.

Regards, Mike


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## Westernstar (Jun 27, 2017)

I had a Massey Ferguson 10 wheel that was similar to your picture, and acted the same. I do alfalfa and it worked most of the time. Upgraded to a Vermeer carted 12 wheel and love it. Way more clearance from the tire to the wheel as well as height clearance. I've doubled up 14' windrows of first cutting alfalfa that went 3.3 tons per acre. Most grass I've done is double windrows of orchard that went 2 ton. Was around $8k new with 0% interest annual payments (one left).
Did 15 acres last night in a little over an hour


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## Westernstar (Jun 27, 2017)




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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

Idaho Hay said:


> Unfortunately this one only has an angle adjustment which mean that if you try and narrow the raking width, it'll make the windrow wider. I've got it adjust to make as wide of a windrow as possible for the pick up on my baler.
> 
> I like the way the rake works, just not in heavy hay... which make it a no go for me.


Have you loosened the c-bolts and adjusted the position of the assemblies to match your desired windrow width?

Also, how wide is the pickup on your baler? Only reason I ask is that from my experience with a similar rake you should be able to make it work if you are making a 5' windrow.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

JMT said:


> Have you loosened the c-bolts and adjusted the position of the assemblies to match your desired windrow width?
> 
> Also, how wide is the pickup on your baler? Only reason I ask is that from my experience with a similar rake you should be able to make it work if you are making a 5' windrow.


My baler has a 75" pickup. So it can handle a pretty wide windrow. I see what you're saying about sliding the rake assemblies in or out, but how would that stop the hay from bunching up under the frame?


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Vermeer here I can also close hydros off on one side and use it as a side delivery with a slow ground speed and make nice windrows for my 328 baler. Never plugged even in rank tifron 85


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## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

Westernstar said:


> I had a Massey Ferguson 10 wheel that was similar to your picture, and acted the same. I do alfalfa and it worked most of the time. Upgraded to a Vermeer carted 12 wheel and love it. Way more clearance from the tire to the wheel as well as height clearance. I've doubled up 14' windrows of first cutting alfalfa that went 3.3 tons per acre. Most grass I've done is double windrows of orchard that went 2 ton. Was around $8k new with 0% interest annual payments (one left).
> Did 15 acres last night in a little over an hour


I've got the 8 wheel version (great end of year deal) and have the same experience. I have never had any issues in heavy hay or haylage. I do almost all first cutting, except for a few large fields that are too far from feeding area to haul and wrap, in haylage and I haven't had it plug yet. Even raking the ends of windrows together to make my outside windrows has not been a problem and I have had VERY heavy windrows this year.


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## JMT (Aug 10, 2013)

Idaho Hay said:


> My baler has a 75" pickup. So it can handle a pretty wide windrow. I see what you're saying about sliding the rake assemblies in or out, but how would that stop the hay from bunching up under the frame?


Will allow you to set the angle "steeper" to make the hay flow through better and take in less hay. I would try setting the angle adjustment as short as you can, then adjust your assemblies to give you a 75" windrow.

In thin hay you can adjust the angle out, take in more hay, and make a smaller windrow.

Thick hay adjust the angle in, take in less hay, make a wide windrow. May help it flow through.

Try playing with your ground speed also (like mentioned before). Speed seemed to help ours. I could rake all day without plugging (going fast), let my mom take over so I could bale and the rake would start plugging (mom drove a little slower). Makes a bigger mess though if you plug when going fast.

We used to try to rake straight rows, back and forth. Cleaning up the end rows was where we had the most trouble. Where rake would catch clumps that had already been raked up. Best advice there was to rake square to the back and forth rows if you could. With point rows you should drive towards the back and forth rows so the rake wheels catch the previously raked rows "spread out". If you drive away from the point rows the rake will catch the row, flip it to the next wheel, catch that bunch and more row, flip again..catch more ...make a ball then plug. End rows sometimes meant raking them in several different directions. I am sorry for such a lousy description but maybe you can figure what I am talking about.

Also I am just trying to help you get by with your rake! You would still be much better off with a high clearance or better yet high capacity.


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## stilsonian (May 27, 2015)

Agree with JMT. Slide the assemblies inward and adjust your angle to allow for a narrower rake width. Wheel rakes perform better and plug less when the rake wheels are more parallel to the direction of travel anyways. We did this on our Deere 8 wheel carted as it would clog in heavy bermudagrass. For perennial peanut we prefer to widen the rake width as the crop is usually less dense and the crop flow (for perennial peanuts) is better with more perpendicular wheels.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

JMT said:


> Will allow you to set the angle "steeper" to make the hay flow through better and take in less hay. I would try setting the angle adjustment as short as you can, then adjust your assemblies to give you a 75" windrow.
> 
> In thin hay you can adjust the angle out, take in more hay, and make a smaller windrow.
> 
> ...


That makes sense what you're saying, and I fully appreciate the "figure out how to make it work" way of thinking, because sometimes that's our only option. But in this situation, I really don't want to sacrifice raking width that much. I have my system built around raking 2 10ft swaths, and if I narrow up much from what I have it at now it will likely be too narrow. Besides, even if I could get it to stop plugging up completely, I suspect that it'll still somewhat drag on the frame which will in turn cause an inconsistent windrow. I've experienced that as well in lighter crops. I think the best thing to do is to just bite the bullet of selling this rake and buying a high capacity. I'd rather not have to spend the extra money, but am able to make the budget work, and in the long run I believe it'll be well worth it. I'll let you all know what I end up getting (probably won't be until next spring though).

Thanks everyone for all your input. You've done a great job of answering all my questions.

Kyle


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

Well, I found a rake... It's a Kuhn SR50-10, and I think I did pretty well on it. The guy I bought it from bought it brand new this spring and only used for a couple of hours. Apparently it didn't do what he was hoping for (looks like he had lots of really small fields) so he put it on craigslist this fall, and being that hardly anyone is interested in buying hay machinery this time of year, he was ripe for the picking and I was able to work him down to a really good price. All said and done, I'm only $800 more into this one then what I sold the Frontier one for (the rake in my first post that I was having trouble with), and this rake is pretty much brand new. The Frontier was probably 10 years old.

I would love to have bought a new bi-fold/high capacity, but being that this rake has the high clearance frame design, and is more easily adjustable than my old one, it should be able to handle everything I'll be able to through at... and for a bit less than half the cost.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Keep in mind that you can adjust the width by adjusting the angle of attack. From the picture, it looks like that would be very easy on that rake.

Ralph


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

If I remember right, make sure you have a float position on the remote you run the speed rake on. Makes all the difference in folks happiness with them.


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## Idaho Hay (Oct 14, 2016)

slowzuki said:


> If I remember right, make sure you have a float position on the remote you run the speed rake on. Makes all the difference in folks happiness with them.


Before buying this rake, I did as much internet research as I could because I don't know anyone with a Kuhn, and it appears that in the newer models of these rakes they made some improvements from the older models. One of the improvements is that they made the rake self floating by adding slotted holes at both ends if the hydraulic cylinders. The other was that they made the tongue straight with an angled approach down to the tractor hitch, rather than an aggressive drop down to the tractor hitch. It looks like there were some complaints about interference with 3 point arms.


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