# Successful Farming models that are not so common



## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

The discussion on dairy brings this to my mind. We use to have dairy here, some of the buildings still stand. But they were small, my guess is 25 cows would have been average.

This area was some of the best flue cured tobacco country there was and then tobacco became a bad word and the Federal Government made change after change till there was no allotment and prices bottomed and the small farmer was gone in another farming avenue here. In my area cotton and peanuts are taking up some of the slack of tobacco while there is still a lot of tobacco but bigger acreage on many less farms. Wheat has become much more common. Produce has steady gotten larger and larger and with a heavy tourist industry here produce stands are very common. Produce such as cucumbers, sweet potatoes and water melons have been decent size business here for years, Not sure on the cucumbers at present. Each of those seem to be an area crop in our county. Hogs were big here also but think that has dropped back some, but still do. Timber and tobacco made this county and is timber is still big here. Sadly too much is being cut and will never be replanted as it being clear cut for development. We lost a major hardwood mill maybe twenty years or longer back.

Have a friend who has successful operation (been about three years since we last talked) but balanced between produce (sweet corn and water melons being two big parts), cattle and then row crops. Family run business and each of those areas is managed by a brother or cousin. They do hire help.

My wife has a cousin who makes grits and cornmeal from corn he carefully selected from PA.

Meet a lady in NC a few years back who was running small dairy operation that was organic which required her buying organic hay. Said it could not be marketed for human due to not being treated.

Hay or straw is being used in the road side seeding work now. This is the seeding that is blown out with a wetting agent the best I know. Not sure but was told all one of the largest hay growers does is sold to them.

Our state has moved to contracting out the mowing of the roads from it being state employees and state equipment.

Just trying to share ideas that may work for you or part of them or spark a thought for you.

One area I read about that caught my mind if I had the land to raise cattle is smaller beef cattle. Restaurants like to serve thick steaks but have problem doing so for the diameter of the steaks is so large compared to the serving size. Based upon that seems to be a real market for those who have the ability and are willing to develop relationship with the restaurant industry


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Folks I am sure there are many other options out there.

U pick produce and fruit trees and small Christmas lots are some others that work here.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

On one of my facebook groups people were complaining about how little money there is in farming. A few people said what they do. Value adding, selling direct to consumers, a few things like that. And wow the backlash these guys got. Things like thats too hard. Live too far from a city. Too many government regulations and it takes too much time. I just thought wow. A bunch of these guys will work two jobs to keep the farm alive, but its too much work to value add and sell direct to consumers? The big thing is the mindset of farmers to want to do things differently than the previous generations.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

hog987 said:


> On one of my facebook groups people were complaining about how little money there is in farming. A few people said what they do. Value adding, selling direct to consumers, a few things like that. And wow the backlash these guys got. Things like thats too hard. Live too far from a city. Too many government regulations and it takes too much time. I just thought wow. A bunch of these guys will work two jobs to keep the farm alive, but its too much work to value add and sell direct to consumers? The big thing is the mindset of farmers to want to do things differently than the previous generations.


Their thoughts may be closer to " customers are too fickle . Hard to produce a premium product when the customer has no loyalty and will replace you for a penny." We see it all the time in retail hay sales. It's always a race to the bottom it seems instead of folks of a like interest getting together and setting a floor price. Needs to happen.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> On one of my facebook groups people were complaining about how little money there is in farming. A few people said what they do. Value adding, selling direct to consumers, a few things like that. And wow the backlash these guys got. Things like thats too hard. Live too far from a city. Too many government regulations and it takes too much time. I just thought wow. A bunch of these guys will work two jobs to keep the farm alive, but its too much work to value add and sell direct to consumers? The big thing is the mindset of farmers to want to do things differently than the previous generations.


Were most of these farmers complaining about selling direct to the consumer commodity farmers on your facebook group? Corn, beans, wheat types? Those are the types around here that kind of deride selling hay. Which for the most part is direct to the consumer. Especially if selling to the horse market. They say that's too hard. How can you deal with that many people. Even the guys selling all their hay to one feedlot or dairy say that about selling to horse folks. Well selling to one customer is easier, but in general selling all your hay to say 50-60 different people nearly doubles your sales price here. The same might be said of these smaller organic vegetable acreages. Selling direct to the consumer at farmers markets or restaurants. But what I read they far and away net higher per acre then your average corn farmers. But it is harder work by far as well. Heck I've read a couple stories of people in cities renting other peoples back yards to raise gardens and netting quite the income from it.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Actually most of the complaining was about distance to cities for direct marketing or government regulations. Very little was about dealing with customers.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

The next big thing people complained about was the extra work. It's too much work and effort. Finally that they just can't afford to not work off the farm. I have done it and know other people who have went farming full time. Your not as broke as you think because you don't have the expense of traveling to work everyday. Lots of people never sit down and figure out what it costs to run a vehicle an hour plus a day to get to and from work. For me it was $600/ month less in fuel costs.

People in my area think iam crazy for not selling my bales of hay direct off the field like most here to. Truth is I can make depending on the year 30%-50% more on my hay selling slowly over the winter plus I can make some on the trucking. The other option is to get a job in town over the winter to make the extra money and than complain how the farm doesn't make any money.


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## hcriddle (Jul 5, 2014)

hillside hay said:


> Their thoughts may be closer to " customers are too fickle . Hard to produce a premium product when the customer has no loyalty and will replace you for a penny." We see it all the time in retail hay sales. It's always a race to the bottom it seems instead of folks of a like interest getting together and setting a floor price. Needs to happen.


So true. The other day I got a call from another Haytalk member right down the road from me. He asked what I thought I was going to be charging for hay this year and we discussed fuel, herbicide and fertilizer costs and I told him what I thought I was going to have to get for my hay to make it worth doing. He agreed and our prices were exactly in line with each other.

I have another friend about 30 miles away who has been selling his hay for $1.50 a bale cheaper than mine. He has been complaining for 3 years that he is going under and can't afford fuel and fertilizer. Every time I tell him he needs to raise his price he says he will lose his customers. I sold all my hay this year at my price and he sold all his for his price. The difference was that without fertilizer he did not get the yields I had.

I know that there will always be people baling ditch hay and selling it at way lower prices but they can have those customers and I will focus on those who are looking for higher quality hay and willing to pay a fair price for it. Hopefully Darren and I can raise the bar in our area. Only by sticking to our prices will we bring about change.

Buddy


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

hog987 said:


> The next big thing people complained about was the extra work. It's too much work and effort. Finally that they just can't afford to not work off the farm. I have done it and know other people who have went farming full time. Your not as broke as you think because you don't have the expense of traveling to work everyday. Lots of people never sit down and figure out what it costs to run a vehicle an hour plus a day to get to and from work. For me it was $600/ month less in fuel costs.
> People in my area think iam crazy for not selling my bales of hay direct off the field like most here to. Truth is I can make depending on the year 30%-50% more on my hay selling slowly over the winter plus I can make some on the trucking. The other option is to get a job in town over the winter to make the extra money and than complain how the farm doesn't make any money.


i usually don't sell much hay in the summer.I cringed when a regular customer wanted some and the market was down last summer but let a few loads go at a fair price for the time.Sometimes it sucks delivering but it's $40 a ton higher now,or more.So for the extra of fighting snow etc I got an extra $50,000.Heck it spreads my workload out.Im to busy making hay in summer to deliver it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I enjoy loading hay up in the winter time and taking it to various outlets. Winters are very mild here and I can deliver pretty much at my leisure. I pulled a wagon of 150 2nd cut Orchard grass to my local co op yesterday. I just leave the wagon in their shed with the hay on it and they sell off the wagon. The help loves that as they don't have to unload and stack. I don't push hay sales in the summer either as I prefer to put the hay in the buildings and make a few more $ in the fall and winter.

Regards, Mike


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

My truck would rather pull these long hills in the winter too.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> The next big thing people complained about was the extra work. It's too much work and effort. Finally that they just can't afford to not work off the farm. I have done it and know other people who have went farming full time. Your not as broke as you think because you don't have the expense of traveling to work everyday. Lots of people never sit down and figure out what it costs to run a vehicle an hour plus a day to get to and from work. For me it was $600/ month less in fuel costs.
> People in my area think iam crazy for not selling my bales of hay direct off the field like most here to. Truth is I can make depending on the year 30%-50% more on my hay selling slowly over the winter plus I can make some on the trucking. The other option is to get a job in town over the winter to make the extra money and than complain how the farm doesn't make any money.


Here in the U.S some keep their jobs just for the health insurance.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

I raise cattle I sale some at the local sale I get Market price I've got 12 regularly customers I raise a beef for ever year if I could get 12 more regular customer I would be makeing a buck


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

Swv.farmer said:


> I raise cattle I sale some at the local sale I get Market price I've got 12 regularly customers I raise a beef for ever year if I could get 12 more regular customer I would be makeing a buck


I've been following your local market down there. Your prices are far better than what we get here. Transportation costs prohibit me from sending a load that way. We get far far below market price here. So we have to raise a few hundred animals to even come close to breaking even with property taxes utilities and mortgages. Still prefer it to my HVAC job.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Teslan said:


> Here in the U.S some keep their jobs just for the health insurance.


I have been an insurance agent for over thirty years and have thought about a thread here on options people may have. I hear it too often people saying I have no option or such when they do, just ignorant of them.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Palmettokat said:


> I have been an insurance agent for over thirty years and have thought about a thread here on options people may have. I hear it too often people saying I have no option or such when they do, just ignorant of them.


You should do that. There are probably ideas you have that none of us would think of to ask about. And that some agents don't offer or don't want to offer.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

hcriddle said:


> So true. The other day I got a call from another Haytalk member right down the road from me. He asked what I thought I was going to be charging for hay this year and we discussed fuel, herbicide and fertilizer costs and I told him what I thought I was going to have to get for my hay to make it worth doing. He agreed and our prices were exactly in line with each other.
> 
> Buddy


 I thought 'price fixing' or collusion was illegal. :lol: But between the fence posts is another story. 

Larry


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

r82230 said:


> I thought 'price fixing' or collusion was illegal. :lol: But between the fence posts is another story.
> 
> Larry


 It is called market study. Done by a nonprofit education group.

Or local farmers figuring out how to make a living.


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## hcriddle (Jul 5, 2014)

r82230 said:


> I thought 'price fixing' or collusion was illegal. :lol: But between the fence posts is another story.
> 
> Larry


Not price fixing just two guys trying not to cut each others throats.


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## RuttedField (Apr 24, 2016)

I was always told that a farm should have three products. One or two markets might collapse, but for three to collapse would be pretty rare.

For me, it has always been sheep and logging, but I admit I should have another commodity to raise.

Any more then 3 though means a farmer does not really focus well, and they get distracted by going in too many different directions. I can see that.

But change is hard. I looked really hard into what we have done in the past, and found a market for small grains, but finding the right sized equipment was tough. I cannot get a combine for 100 acres of wheat or rye, and yet I cannot do it by hand scythe either. I am pretty sure Katie would not want to beat stalks with a stick and flail either.

...

One thing to consider: the greatest challenge on any farm, is often its best asset too. Me, my farm is a long way to the lamb market, BUT I am also one of the few that are raising sheep around here too on any commercial size scale.


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

The challenge in our area is, what does our operation need to do, adapt and adjustment wise, in regards to the remaining dairy operations. After exiting dairy , we filled all the barns with other dairy farms youngstock. Filled a need for heifer raising.

Last years difficult harvest period left some producers low on feed. We had to hire custom harvester to bunker up 100 acres of hay acreage just to catch. This extra 500 plus ton of haylage is being sold to a couple dairies, saving their butts I might add. A win win.

A friend ( excavating/ bulldozing) needed a new trailer deck. We can do that. White ash off the farm, run through our mill. Bingo, and landed another job as a result.

With less and less oats being grown we've seen a huge demand for straw. Opportunity knocks! We rotate out of hay with no till oat crop. Cheaper than corn, less risk. Problem is oats price. $2.31 the other day CBOT. Price in 1978 was $2.33. Solution to cut costs: use of own seed run through an ancient Clipper 2B.








Have to get harvest costs lower is next opportunity.........three winks at he auctioneer,1 painless payment and........






1978 F2........things it won't need fixed AC and radio! We're calling it antique restoration.

Point is, we do things that are a bit unusual at times. These are challenging times though.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

My county is I think the largest east of the Mississippi. We have Myrtle Beach major tourist and retirement draw and also many farms.. Was one of the largest flue cured tobacco for years. The tourist and retires are growing and tobacco is not near what it was. Our farms are more diversified than since maybe in fifty years. Cotton, wheat and peanuts are larger crops by far. Our county is having meetings for people to express our desires for the county's future. This morning they reported people wanted to see services to catch up with the growth but there was support to keep much of the farming area as farming. There is lot of produce raised and sold at stands on roads and it is good people realize the value of them. Also have talked to many new movers they enjoy the crops and produce they can buy locally.

Mount Pleasant is city next to Charleston which is well known. Boone Farm is about circled by houses but they have done a good job of making their operation a tourist or event operation. I live about 80 miles from there and it reaches here. A success story based upon what I know.


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## Bgriffin856 (Nov 13, 2013)

Around 10 years ago we'd keep three or four bull calves and raise them for beef. One for ourselves sell the others, mainly to people we knew or people that they knew. Deal was so much a pound hanging they paid thier own processing. My god how much people b!tched about the price and they could buy it so much cheaper at the store... after praising how good it was to buy locally and how much better it would be.... we quit that after a year or two

Still try to sell smaller and jersey cross bull calves here at the farm


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## atgreene (May 19, 2013)

We run a small grass fed beef operation. We have regular hours at our "store" in our entryway to our house on Saturdays 9-1. 
Or by chance as people stop in. We sell grass fed beef, pasture raised pork, eggs from our chickens raised on pasture, our maple syrup and it's associated products, honey, hay, canned products from our licensed home kitchen and anything else that makes a buck. It's my wifes full-time job while she homeschools our son. I'm eligible to retire from the fire dept, but will continue due to insurance for a while longer.

We've found that the diversity, while hard to keep up with all aspects sometimes, allows us to have more products on the shelf and brings in niche customers who buy other things. Eggs are such a simple thing, but at $4 per dozen, roughly 6-8 dozen a day for 365 days a year, they add up. Most people buying eggs buy a lb of bacon, sausage or quart of syrup. One thing leads to another. Joel Salatin preaches about symbiotic relations on a farm, how the manure from the chickens helps grow the grass that feeds the cows that the pigs then graze as well etc etc... there's a lot of truth to that. I'd love to do "conventional" ag and concentrate just on cattle and feed corn, but the money is in what people want and in a system that is just that, a system that everything builds off everything else.

It can be done, we're a tiny operation in the grand scheme of things, but it beats working for a living.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

atgreene, man wish you were near me!


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