# Alfalfa Row Width



## buckeye

Does anyone have experience with alfalfa sowed in 10 inch rows? Looking at a Krause drill with 10 inch spacing and my experience is with a Brillion but with the Krause I could no till wheat and beans.


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## BCFENCE

I personaly dont like my alfalfa drilled unless maybe you make two passes over the ground to kinda fill up the gaps. My experience with sowing alfalfa is if their is a big gap left between plants weeds will take over, i like too keep as thick as coverage as possible two keep weeds smotherd out.
THOMAS


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## buckeye

I was afraid of that also, but I interseed orchardgrass on some and I thought the gap might be an advantage.


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## Hedge tree

Before the advent of 7 1/2" spacing on drills, it was common to plant alfalfa with whatever drill the farmer owned....8" or 10". Most seedings consisted of setting the drill to sow 1/2 the recommended amount and go in one direction, then drill as close to 90 deg to that on a 2nd pass.

There were several major equipment manufacturers that built special 'alfalfa' drills. McCormick had one....4" spacings, about 7' wide with iron wheels. I have one....it works great but is mighty, mighty, slow.

Now, in this area (upland, dryland, mostly terraced), most alfalfa is sowed with something like a Great Plains drill on 7 1/2" spacings.....drill 1X with the full poundage wanted. Lots of alfalfa here planted into wheat or soybean stubble, no till. Solid seed bed, much better germination. For that reason, the cultipacker (Brillion-type) seeders are not commonly used.

Alfalfa has been successfully seeded by putting the seed into a starter fertilizer mix and blowing it on with a fertilizer rig. Two kinda wet fields planted nearby that way this August and it appears both are good stands. Like in lots of agribusiness...."different horses for different courses". Your proposal would certainly work as time has proven that.....but you might well be better served to hire alfalfa planted or rent your County Conservation office's no till drill with narrower spacings....most have them at about $6.50 per acre.


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## haytimer

i have to agree with BC. just my opinion here but feel like you may loose some tonnage from the alfalfa in 10" rows..had aneighbor plant in 8.5 rows 3 years ago and as it gets later in the season rows are very prominent..i just feel the alfalfa cant compensate quick enough...


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## swmnhay

Also with 10" rows some of the hay will be laying directly on the ground not on the stuble.Especialy if you get a hard rain.


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## chief-fan

In this area we usually drill in Oats as a cover crop and lay the alfalfa on top along with it. Ground is worked first and the rolled after drilling. I always thought that if the alfalfa seed was in contact with the ground it would root down and didn't need to put into the ground to start with. To deep and it won't come up. We take the oats off for hay and then one cutting of alfalfa later. Drill is on 7" spacing ±. What ever works for you is the right way to do it. Good luck.


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## UpNorth

The 10 inch drill seems a little wide for wheat along with the alfalfa. In WI we plant wheat in 6-7.5 in rows because of the weed issues. I think a small drill for the the wheat and alfalfa (6-7.5 in) and a bigger one for soybeans and corn (15-30 in) would be a good bet. I've seen soybeans drilled narrow along the way up to 30 in and I think the medium (15 in) to wide (30 in) have the best stands especially in wet years. Some the guys up here have had wet conditions when they've drilled narrow and had lots of white mold issues. How wet do you get down there in Ohio?


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## Heyhay..eh

I used a drill (IH) to put in one field and was dismayed by the amount of black ground that was visible. A neighbour broadcast his with a 3ph broadcaster and it was an improvement over drilling. The last field put in was blown with a teragator. The seed was incorporated with the granular fertilizer and blown in in one operation. Good coverage good catch not much black ground visible.

I have noted that many neighbours are doing the same type of application for a variety of reasons.

Better coverage,
Time saving in seeding process
Reasonable cost Under $5/a for application of fert/seed mix (contracted out to fert company)
Reduced work for farmer (break, harrow to set bed, harrow to finish planting process).
Don't need seeding equipment.

Take care


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## hayray

I use my Conservation Districts JD drill and also rent a neighbors IH drill, I think they are both 7 1/2 inch but not sure. I have never had a problem using them and like to use the drills rather then broadcasting because of the ability to calculate seed rate better.


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## Heyhay..eh

Just had the seed premixed with the fertilizer 12#/a. Didn't seem to miss a spot and had good distribution of seed over the entire field. At the end of the application process the tank was empty ... there were no prills or seeds left.

The proof was in coverage after germination. There was a nice mat of green which was made up of alfalfa and some orchard. The timothy did not show in the first flush but the alfalfa showed well.

The key for me was contracting the process out and getting the experience of the seasoned operator. Had I rented and applied the mixture I might well have had problems with the coverage and application rates.

This experience was convincing for me and I think that as a process it gave me more benefit that concerns ... so definitely would go this way again.

Take care


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## Rodney R

The 10 inch spacing is too wide. How wide are the rows on most drill in the area? We have a JD that does 7 inch, and a Krause that does 7.5. 10 inch is really a drill for soybeans, not sure how well it would work for wehat. Not sure that I've ever seen a drill with that wide of a spacing?

Rodney


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## prairie

I work with a lot of seed customers from several states and get to see and hear about a lot of alfalfa seeding methods, and the successes and failures. 
The best for a drill wider than 7 1/2 inches is to drill two directions. Drill the second pass at a 30 degree angle to the first, to give you a diamond pattern. I suggest cross drilling even with a 7 1/2 inch spacing. Plant the first pass as shallow as possible to prevent covering it to deeply with the second pass. 
If seeding mixed hay stands, drill the alfalfa in one pass and cross drill the grass on the second pass. That way the slower and weaker establishing grass is not competing in the same row with the alfalfa. Another option that has worked well is to set the drill up, in alternate rows, to have half the rows dropping alfalfa and the other half grass.
When broadcasting or blowing seed on, *always*, double spread, preferably at different directions. Skips and plugged nozzles are the norm, even with GPS and all the high tech monitoring equipment. My rental drill gets a lot of small acre rentals to fill in these voids once they become apparent.


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## buckeye

Thanks to everyone for their replys. You have confirmed what I thought-that it was too wide.

Buckeye


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## kshayharvester

Might seem a dumb question but those of you who broadcast, do you scratch the ground with a cultivator before you seed and fertilize? I have alot of terrace ground and I would think if you didn't work the ground a little bit first you might lose some seed getting washed away.
Thanks


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## swmnhay

kshayharvester said:


> Might seem a dumb question but those of you who broadcast, do you scratch the ground with a cultivator before you seed and fertilize? I have alot of terrace ground and I would think if you didn't work the ground a little bit first you might lose some seed getting washed away.
> Thanks


Here a common practice is to work the ground with field cultivator mix alfalfa seed with dry fertilizer.Airflow it on with terragator.Drag in lightly and pack.Usually they bump seeding rates up 10-20% because seed depth is variable.

For direct seeding some may put down herbicide first and incorparate it.

Some may drill a cover crop after digging it than blow on alf/fert,drag and pack.


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## anokes

kshayharvester,
Sometimes we have a airplane broadcast seed for us into crop residues. I would not recommend scratching the ground unless the top is extremely hard. i like grass or wheat stubble residues best because they are good at holding moisture on the top of the ground, which gives the alfalfa plant a good start. Sub-soil moisture is key, get yourself a soil moisture probe and if you can push it all the way in the ground it is time to plant alfalfa. If you have quite a bit of crop residue on top of the ground you have to have a big rain event to wash the seed away.


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## hayray

kshayharvester said:


> Might seem a dumb question but those of you who broadcast, do you scratch the ground with a cultivator before you seed and fertilize? I have alot of terrace ground and I would think if you didn't work the ground a little bit first you might lose some seed getting washed away.
> Thanks


When I broadcast or drill I make the ground as firm as I can with a cultipacker before I plant and then re-cultipack afterwards. Not only is this important so that seed does not get burried too deep but also to maintain field smoothness. Soft un-rolled ground is difficult to get the tire tracks out. I have had alot of problem in the past because I made the ground too soft.


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## Heyhay..eh

> Might seem a dumb question but those of you who broadcast, do you scratch the ground with a cultivator before you seed and fertilize? I have alot of terrace ground and I would think if you didn't work the ground a little bit first you might lose some seed getting washed away.


I would imagine that the field preparation varies depending upon preference and capacity. In my case all fields were tilled, disked, harrowed then cross harrowed, seed blown in with the dry fertilizer then harrowed & cross harrowed result was good. Other field we substituted one final harrowing for a packing with a water filled roller. Same crop result but much better field for working on.

If we do not prepare the surface of our heavy soil then there is a good chance that the seed will just lay on top. The fields that have had manure applications are a little softer on the surface and on those field we have had success putting the seed on the spreader bed and then loading the manure on top. The theory is that the seed is already attached to the bottom of the wet manure and therefore covered when it hits the ground. This has been only tried in field renovations.

I have never gone over 12# total seed application per acre with either type application which is the same rate used if we drill it in. No discernible difference in the result other that the look of the coverage ... no row lines.

Good luck


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## BCFENCE

Heyhay..eh said:


> I would imagine that the field preparation varies depending upon preference and capacity. In my case all fields were tilled, disked, harrowed then cross harrowed, seed blown in with the dry fertilizer then harrowed & cross harrowed result was good. Other field we substituted one final harrowing for a packing with a water filled roller. Same crop result but much better field for working on.
> 
> If we do not prepare the surface of our heavy soil then there is a good chance that the seed will just lay on top. The fields that have had manure applications are a little softer on the surface and on those field we have had success putting the seed on the spreader bed and then loading the manure on top. The theory is that the seed is already attached to the bottom of the wet manure and therefore covered when it hits the ground. This has been only tried in field renovations.
> 
> I have never gone over 12# total seed application per acre with either type application which is the same rate used if we drill it in. No discernible difference in the result other that the look of the coverage ... no row lines.
> 
> Good luck


Do you get a very good stand at 12 pounds to the acre, When i sow mine i put 27 pounds and use a brillon seeder withsome orchardgrass mixed in and it looks like a golf course, real thick with a small steam, I was just wondering.
THANKS THOMAS


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## kshayharvester

Anoke, 
If you were to broadcast into grass, would the alfalfa choke out the grass or would you have to spray and kill it? Would you need to kill it this fall when the grass is dormant or would the alfalfa take over the grass if its thick enough?


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## UpNorth

kshayharvester said:


> Anoke,
> If you were to broadcast into grass, would the alfalfa choke out the grass or would you have to spray and kill it? Would you need to kill it this fall when the grass is dormant or would the alfalfa take over the grass if its thick enough?


I would think there would be some issue with broadcasting alfalfa seed into a grass stand-especially the lack of seed to soil contact. If I absolutely had to broadcast alfalfa over, I'd have the grass short and then go over it with a harrow or, cultipacker or something.

If the alfalfa does establish in this situation it will die out if you're in colder climate (upper midwest) from the winter, and down south diseases will take there toll. Unless you really wanted alfalfa out, it should die off.

Alfalfa/grass mixes depend mostlly on the grass in with the alfalfa and how it's life cycle lines up with alfalfa harvest. Late maturing varieties of orchardgrass has the most rapid regrowth in mixures and fit the harvest timing well, but they may not establish as quickly as other grasses. Tall and meadow fescue will do well in mixes. The ryegrasses usually work well in mixes. Smooth brome grass and timothy are not good choices in mixes with alfalfa---the first cut sets smooth brome back at a critical point in its growth, the timothy shallow roots don't hold up to the traffic of alfalfa harvest. A good rule of thumb for harvesting mixtures is to go by the alfalfa growth stage unless the grass starts heading out. Then you need to harvest soon if you want a high quality mix.

Where are you located?


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## kshayharvester

I'm located in northeast kansas.


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## panhandle9400

We have seeded 1000's of acres by air and it works very well under center pivot irrigation. prep circles then fly about 22 to 25 lbs of alfalfa seed on then start system and water to incorperate seed , leave systems running until seed sprouts and shut down after 50 to 75% emergance and the rest will come in a few days . if not keep the water on a while longer , used 36' great plains drill before and could not slow seed rate down enough , drilled it in 2 differnt directions too much time compared to air broadcast.


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