# Case RB565 Problems



## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

I don't think hay should be getting out of the bale chamber above the belts clogging the scrapers and wrapping the rollers. When it wraps the rollers that is what is tearing up the belts and then it gets them off track and is wearing the belt guides on the rear after only 150 bales. It was really packed in under the scrapers on the rollers so I had to use pliers to pull it out.

It did it on some hay that was first cutting and some second cutting. Then it did it with a conditioner and without for cutting.

It tore the lacing out of a couple of the belts so they were replaced under warranty. It's almost like the roller scrapers aren't doing their jobs and there is a lot of hay getting out of the bale chamber above the belts?

Anyone have any ideas?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've seen that kind of a problem when the hay is real dry AND the bale is uneven in the chamber. This is usually indicative of to much hay on one side of the chamber and too little on the other. The bale is tight on one side, loose on the other. The loose side allows the hay to squirt out on that side.

Rule of thumb: Squeeze your baler to that side when you see hay coming out between the belts or the outside belt and the wall.

I have that happening occasionally when I'm baling across a hillside and can't quite squeeze the hay over far enough into the chamber.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

This was done with windrows as wide as the pickup in full thick hay.

If anything I noticed that it did it more when the hay had higher moisture than when it was too dry.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

It can still happen depending on your windrow formation, the moisture content and the type of hay. A finer hay, like teff, can really spit a lot out. Also, the pickup size can contribute to the problem. I have the super-sweep on my BR780A (which I think is about the same as your Case) and even then, I really have to squeeze it sometimes.

The hay in your pictures looks pretty dry and fine.

Ralph


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

It's fine and dry because it was spinning around in there and then the baler sat for over a week :lol: It really seemed like the worst it spit hay and wrapped the rollers was when it was higher moisture and long.

It's hard to do much with it now since hay is done, but I would like to know where to start next year.

I talked to another guy that has the Premium model and he said his did fine, but if the hay was real long and not run through a conditioner then it didn't care for it.

I tried to find what the difference was in the regular model and the Premium, but couldn't find the exact differences.


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

I think it's strange that it only does it on that left side.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

It is almost always the left side because that is the side that does not get filled when baling. Even though you may have full width windrows, 95% of the people still tend to drift and fill the right side more. Windrows which are not even side to side will cause the problem. Remember belts that are loose will move. So what can you do?

I remove the scraper from the follower roll and take a wire welder and weld a bead on each end of the scaper which extends the scraper about 1/4" in length on each end and 1/2" long along the side of the scraper. I then grind the weld smooth so the weld is square with the scraper. The bead of weld will make the scraper fill the lenght of the sledge frame so hay can not jam in the corners. I then grind the scraper so it is sharp edge to it. With the sharp edge the mounting slots in the scraper will not be long enough so you will need to extend the slots so you can adjust the scraper up to the follower roll. This will eliminate the hairpinning of material at the follower roll.

I have never done it but you could also sharpen the tailgate nose roll scraper and adjust it to the roll to elimiate hairpinning there.

Install an expeller roll to get rid of that excess hay on top of the belts. This will help your belt guide wear.

Install a front belt guide to keep that outer belt closer to the side of the baler

Slow your engine speed down and shift up when starting the bale to keep from generating so much loose hay if you are in conditions where hay wants to travel up the belts. I would also change how you judge where to drive so you get more material to the left side.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

mike10, are people not paying attention to their bale shape indicators? The system CNH uses is very sensitive to an underfilled side compared to Deere and Vermeer. Haven't seen it on the few balers I've worked on, but I wonder a little about calibration error on the bale shape indicator. I have seen the linkages to the pots get sticky and give poor readings.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I am wondering did this happen in the earlier cuttings. I have a similar NH baler and I would have to say I have had this happen but only with certain crops that were baled very late usually after frost . Due to the fact it happened once or twice a year I just put up with it stopped and cleaned out the rollers every 10 bales . I would not want to put up with it if it happened normally


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Gearclash said:


> mike10, are people not paying attention to their bale shape indicators? The system CNH uses is very sensitive to an underfilled side compared to Deere and Vermeer. Haven't seen it on the few balers I've worked on, but I wonder a little about calibration error on the bale shape indicator. I have seen the linkages to the pots get sticky and give poor readings.


Good point. I had a bale shape indicator get stuck on my first baling this year. Seems that dust and crud had build up inside the housing. Took a little while to figure out what was happening and what I needed to do.

My NH has a sensitivity adjustment on bale shape and I wonder if mike10 might need to adjust his.

Regardless, I still use the rearview mirror to what for hay being spit out in addition to watching the monitor to tell me if I need more hay on that side.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It seems the sledge gears are the bottlekneck . It has belts or roll every where in the chamber except there and right above there is where it bunches and spits


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Picture of sledge rolls


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Interesting theory. What I have seen of the hay following the outside of the outer belt up and wrap around the drive roll was always when the outside belt was tracking to the center of the baler. I try and find one belt that likes to track to the left and move it to the outside location, but when the belt gets loose it is going to move.

The driving indicators are alright, but most people ignore them. The problem with the indicators are most windrows are wider than half the width of the pickup so you are always feeding the middle of the bale and to compound the problem the operators have a tendency to favor the right side. Even full width windrows are not consistent in their density from side to side.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

How many bales will those rollers bale before they require replacement from wear or are these balers too new to know?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> How many bales will those rollers bale before they require replacement from wear or are these balers too new to know?


Many thousands. But you don't need to replace them. You just weld flat stock to them to "rough" them back up and keep going.


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

I've had balers with drive bar monitors before. I do not ignore the monitor and it's set at the highest sensitivity.

I had it wrap up the rollers and belts while starting a bale and while mid bale that really slipped and smoked the clutch. So I'm not really sure that rpm at bale starting is what does it.

I wondered why the roller/drum didn't extend over the gears. There's about a half inch gap.

I know hay season is over and it's combine season, but I sent pictures to my dealer to send to the Case rep on September 29th and I've called a couple times to check and see what they said. Well I have no response. Granted it's only $45,000 and not a $300k combine, but it's still a lot of money so my patience is wearing a bit thin.

I sent photos to the dealer again yesterday and asked what they thought and what the Case rep thought. Then I asked again what the exact difference is on the 565 and 565 Premium since I spoke to a Premium owner that baled 1700 bales this summer.

I bought my baler late in the summer so I only have 150 bales in it, so it's stressful thinking of first cuttings next year out of the gate. I guess the bright side is that there is a 1 year warranty.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

CRE10:

In the Barn is a pretty generic location! Where is your barn located?

A fellow down the road bought a Case (not sure which model) two years ago and had significant problems with it, such that he asked the dealer to buy it back. I'm not sure what the final resolution was.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Isn't a case baler the same as a New Holland? Or not anymore?

Only times I have anything close to what I was seeing in the pictures is with fine hay that's tough, also have some with wet cornstalks.


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Isn't a case baler the same as a New Holland? Or not anymore?
> 
> Only times I have anything close to what I was seeing in the pictures is with fine hay that's tough, also have some with wet cornstalks.


Same as the NH RB560. I do not have the bale slice on mine though.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

I think the difference between the premium CIH and the standard is probably the same difference between the standard NH and the Specialty Crop baler. The NH specialty crop balers have a heavy duty five bar pickup with rubber mounted teeth, front belt guide, expeller roll, rolling windguard, a wear plate in the duckbill, a brush to keep hay from entering the duckbill, a breakaway slip clutch instead of the friction clutch, and other smaller items. I think they also have the premium laced belts as standard, but you have them in your baler.

I would defiinetly put the expeller roll in and the front belt guide.

While there are many adjustments you can make on the baler to make them perform, the operator still needs to operate the baler for the conditions he is in. As I said before, when you are in conditions where hay is being pulled up the side of the baler, just slow the engine speed down. I took a new 7080 out last year and we did not get very far before hay was being pulled up and wrapping on the drive roll. The hay was over dry and unconditioned stemmy fescue. I had the operator slow his engine speed down when starting the bales until the bale had some size to it and then he could speed up. The interesting part about the situation is when we were on one side of the field it would carry the hay up at normal pto speed, but on the other side of the field it would not. So as we went round and round the field we operated the baler as was needed for the particular conditions.


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## CRE10 (Sep 28, 2013)

The reason I ask about the difference in the 565 and 565 Premium is because both were listed on their website when I bought it. Now just the Premium is listed. I know a Premium owner that hasn't had any trouble. Makes me wonder if there's a reason they don't list the 565 anymore and just list the Premium???

http://caseih.com/en_us/Products/HayForage/Pages/rb5-premium-round-balers.aspx


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The Literature on the CIH site lists 3 565 balers. Premium, wide pickup and round baler which has the standard width pickup. CIH's options and standard equipment are different than NH's. It appears the premium and wide pickup balers share the same pickup as standard equipment where NH offers the 5 bar pickup as an option on the standard wide pickup balers. The literature is not specific in what the other options the premium has over the wide pickup.

Functionally there is no difference between the premium and the wide pickup baler, however the expeller roll and front belt guide makes life a little easier. The other equipment the premium baler has over the standard wide pickup baler is nice but will not have as much effect on your baling.

You can not compare your situation with some other owner's experience. There are too many variables involved to make any comparison much less a fair one.

I always dread taking a new baler out in late cuttings because I know what happens if you do not explain to the owner so he understands the proper operation of the baler in light, dry or brittle hay or small windrows. In those conditions unless you decrease your engine speed and shift up to a higher gear, the bale breaks apart and it either comes out the front over the pickup or it goes up the belts. The amount of hay you have on top is a clear indication the bale is breaking apart as you are baling. That is also contributing to the large amount of hay on top of the belts. Backing off the tension on the bale will also help in some conditions.

I do not want to come across as criticizing your baling technique, it just frustrates me that dealers either do not know or care to explain different situations that arise in the hay field. I can just about guarantee you your experience next spring will be better.

So this is what I would do if I were you. Install the expeller roll and front belt guide. Remove and rework the follower roll scraper the way I posted earlier. The picture of the tailgate nose roll scraper does not look right, but it might be the way the picture was taken. I would think they would be the same as the NH but I don't know that for sure. Once you have all the rolls clean, start the pto and raise the tailgate so it is open about 3 ft. Stop opening the tailgate before the declutch stops the belts. As the belts are rotating, carefully go to the back of the baler and watch how the belts are tracking against the belt guide. The wear on the tailgate belt guide makes me think the belts are not tracking correctly. If I can judge from the pictures, it looks like the belts are tracking to the right. If that is the case, shut the pto off and lower the endgate and shut the tractor off. Slightly loosen the bolt on the middle tailgate roller on the left side and raise the roll about 1/4" and then tighten the bolt. Start the pto and again raise the tailgate and see how the adjustment changed the belt tracking. It may take several tries to get it where it should be. To get the belts to track to the side you want, raise that side of the middle roll. If you still have some belts that are tracking hard against the belt guide, you can move them to a different position in the baler. A lot of time you will have one track right hard and one that will track left hard. Just switch those two around and a lot of the time that will correct the tracking issue. I assume you know how to take the tension off the belts. Take the tension off, slide the rod out of the tailgate belt guide and now you can slide the belts over each other to get them into the new positions.

I like to see the outer belts track as close to the side of the baler as possible especially if you are pulling hay up on the sides. If you have a belt which is tracking hard to the left, then move it to the left side.

I would also suggest you take someone along in the tractor to watch how you are baling and how the belts are tracking. If you do not get hay all the way across the baler when starting the bale, the belts will move like crazy and will continue to until there is enough hay in the chamber to apply pressure to the belts. Once there is pressure on the belts they will pretty well stay in place. That is generally the time you can speed the engine back up in dry conditons, but I have seen some situations where you had to keep the rpms down for the full bale. Again, conditions dictate how you operate the baler.


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## kbhblazer (May 7, 2014)

have a vermeer baler and had the same problem, more or less, with the hay behind the roller. it was suggested I slow the RPMs down an speed up a little . It works. Ive had no problems since . Also i did watch how I raked and loaded my baler did drift to the right and that also helped stop the problem.


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