# Big bales in a small barn



## BarnyardEngineering (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm hoping this is the right forum for this. It's regarding feeding cattle, but is machinery, but I don't see any talk of feeding equipment in the machinery forums... Soooo....

We've got an old dairy barn with ~50 tie stalls where Dad's raising steers and dairy heifers. Right now they're being fed conventionally, as they have been since the 1970's, with an upright silo and small square bales of dry hay.

There are two rows of stalls, but tail-to-tail. To further complicate matters, one manger is only about 3-1/2' wide. If the stalls were nose-to-nose, or the manger just a foot wider, no problem... Remodeling the barn is out of the question as it is simply not cost effective.

I'm buying a round baler this spring. The plan is to roll the hay up and see if I can get what we don't need on trucks headed somewhere else in the country that does need it and might actually pay for it.

What I'd like to do is get away from the silo (completely) and small squares (to some extent), and figure out a way to get round bales, both wet and dry, on the menu.

The key is it can NOT be labor-intensive, and has to be reliable and robust. I'm looking for something small scale that can take the output of a bale unroller, chew it up, and dump it into a conveyor, which drops it into electric feed carts for distribution to the cattle.

Anything existing for this kind of job? Ideas of something I could build or repurpose?


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

They make stationary vertical mixers.

Is there no outdoor barnyard where a round bale feeder could be placed?


----------



## BarnyardEngineering (Jan 14, 2019)

I've looked at stationary vertical mixers, and they have three problems:

1. They don't chew the material up fine enough for the conveyor and feed carts.

2. They're HUGE. A batch would feed these animals for a week, but it would be spoiled by day 3.

3. They require 3-phase power, which we don't have, or a tractor, which I want to avoid.

Unless you know of a SMALL vertical mixer that can chew up silage bales...

These cattle are in TIE stalls. To feed them outside in a bale feeder would require letting them loose twice a day, chasing them outside, waiting while they eat, getting them back in, getting them in their stalls and and getting them tied back up. You can't leave them loose, they'll tear the barn down.

Right now it's real nice. Everyone's snug as a bug in a rug. You just flip a switch and the feed comes out of a hole in the ceiling (most of the time), run the carts back and forth in the morning. In the afternoon, you bust a half dozen small squares and kick them around. No fighting with 35-50 petulant children for hours trying to get them back into their beds.


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

To be honest it sounds like a silo and small squares are still your best bet then...why not put some money into the silo and equipment to keep it running well?


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Well I guess I was assuming you were using the tie stalls like freestalls. Never heard of steers actually tied in tie stalls before. While seriously renovating the barn may be impractical, what's stopping you from a reciprocating saw renovation of sorts - taking out the stall loops and just having a long skinny pen down the middle? (Iwish our tiestall barn had been tail to tail as I now have two REALLY skinny pens down each side.) Maybe a few yards of concrete outside for a pad for a round bale feeder. 
The upright silo really sounds like what is going to work in your barn unless at least some changes can be made. If you have to go to away from the small baler, is a used 3x3 an option? Flaking off of those would work better than rounds. If the square bale labor is the only issue, maybe add mechanization to your bale handling and stay with small bales?


----------



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Um, if your using tie stalls for beef, take em out, reinstall them closer and raise veal instead.

A vertical TMR will chop it up as fine as you want, just takes longer. I ran mine longer than normal Monday before the polar vortex, filled all the feeders. Did the same Tuesday and ran it longer again to chop extra fine and refilled feeders, didn't have to refill em till after the polar vortex was over. Chopped finer technically gets more feed in the same space.

If you have the option of the silo then fill it with corn silage instead and skip the hay altogether.


----------



## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

How are you feeding the small bales currently?


----------



## BarnyardEngineering (Jan 14, 2019)

The silo has to go because Dad is in his mid-70s and has no business climbing silos anymore, and I get vertigo on ladders so I just want to be rid of silos.

The unloader has a few more years in it, but the chute is shot, the doors are shot, and the forage harvester we use to fill it is shot. Hard to get parts for the unloader. IMPOSSIBLE to get parts for the forage harvester.

While we could upgrade the silo and forage harvester, that only supports the cattle operation. I feel the money is better spent on a round baler, which can both support the cattle operation AND a haying operation. Have you tried to buy a pull type forage harvester lately, any size, new or used?

Before you say, "custom harvest," no. Can't depend on anyone around here to do what they say they'll do, or even come close to it. Everyone's out to shaft everyone else because they think everyone else is out to shaft them. It's rare to find an honest person around these days, especially among the neighbor farmers. Part of it is because many are desperate to keep their head above water, but that's still no excuse.

I am looking to make changes, just not the conventional changes.


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Lots of used choppers all over for not a lot of money. When my Gehl 1200 grenaded a few years back, I got a 1085 Gehl with 7' hay head and 2 row corn head for $5,500. I wouldn't waste money on new silo doors and unloader, buy a used Kelly Ryan bagger or even rent one if the acres are low enough.

We feed ewes in smaller barns with large round bales and a 60XT skidloader. It works but the big squares are easier to feed with, but those all get sold.

As far as custom operators and neighbors being out to get each other, the saying goes,

"Do unto others, before they do unto you"


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I sold some hay to a dairy that had similar setup.He put bale on end and cut with chainsaw in 1/3rds.Carried it into them with pitch fork.Seemed like a lot of work but its what he did.


----------



## BarnyardEngineering (Jan 14, 2019)

That's about what it would be like in this barn, but that's too much work for Dad on a daily basis. Heck, it's too much work for ME.

Yeah, the barn layout absolutely SUCKS, but it's what we have. If the cattle business were more lucrative we'd be more open to a jackhammer remodel of the barn, but you aren't going to pay for a makeover of that scale on 50 steers and heifers, especially in this market.

As I said before this might require me inventing something.


----------



## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

I've got to agree with the others though now learning why you don't want to keep the silo not sure what the right answer would be.

I can't imagine having beef in tie stalls.

I have been feeding out of our 20x60 that has left over haylage from the previous renter for the past 2 winters. Opened half up last year for the first time and this year have the full 20 open. Forking out approx 4 wheelbarrows a day(wish the loader was still there, takes about a week to make it around the silo). I'm actually not looking forward to when it's empty and have to start feeding baleage. If I had the equipment already i would be putting haylage in the silo.

You have the equipment already, maybe try switching slowly if possible. Going from silo to all rounds could give you a new set of issues if your not ready for it.

When you say carts, are you referring to something like a Uebler? If not that would be a good upgrade to start with


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Is there a loft above the feed alley?


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

My buddy moved to NY. He said EVERYTHING up there is in tie stalls. Heifers, Beef cows in the winter. You name it they put it in a stall...

You might want to look into the market for round bale hay up there. In PA you cant get much of anything for round bales, and my understanding is NY is even worse due to the large amount of hay made up there...

How about chopper, ag bagger, and feed cart..

How about a self propelled round bale unroller?


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Valmetal outdoor bale choppers onto a feed conveyor. They are single phase electric sized for feeding silage bales into feed conveyor or cart. Work with dry hay or straw too.

Can also get the old track system that you spear and winch a bale up and the trolley drives the the bale around the barn. Works great in little tie stall barns.

https://valmetal.valmetal.com/produits/bale-feeder/


----------



## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> Valmetal outdoor bale choppers onto a feed conveyor. They are single phase electric sized for feeding silage bales into feed conveyor or cart. Work with dry hay or straw too.
> 
> Can also get the old track system that you spear and winch a bale up and the trolley drives the the bale around the barn. Works great in little tie stall barns.
> 
> https://valmetal.valmetal.com/produits/bale-feeder/


I saw that track system with a round bale one time when a canadian dairy farmer posted a video of it. I have never seen anything like it down here which is a shame because we have/had a ton of guys milking in little tie stall barns.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

They had little robot grain feeders that run on same track and read tags for tie stall. Delivers feed based on tag number and the little built in scale and would return to refill when empty. They were popular in the late 90's but I haven't seen one lately.

If you have the room the ride on bale unrollers are cheaper than the tracks but need about 5 ft at floor level to fit and pretty smooth deck plates over the scraper depending on layout.


----------



## BarnyardEngineering (Jan 14, 2019)

You're right. Here in Western NY there are a LOT of small tie stall barns. There area was primarily 50-80 cow dairies for a long time. The barns are not conducive to any sort of freestall conversion.

For carts, have a Weaverline on one side and some Canadian deal on the other side similar if not identical to that Valmetal "Supercart," only blue-green.

Bale unroller would be the cat's galoshes, and I already knew about those, but the mangers are too narrow. One manger is barely wide enough but that 3' manger is a deal breaker.

Unfortunately the rail system won't work for two reasons, one being low ceilings and two being the narrow mangers. Can't fit a 5' bale down a 3' wide manger.

This electric bale chopper from Valmetal sounds intriguing. Any links to info on it? I don't see it on their website?


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Have to dig around, I don't know why they hide this stuff. Friend has one of their stationary mixers installed in their dairy but they are feeding chopped corn and hay from bags so they don't need the grinding. I've got one of their gas powered square bale choppers meant for chopping / feeding in bunks in small dairy. Handy little rigs. With little shelf can push 3-4 bales along with you as you go.

Our own tie stall barn we don't milk so we took the stanchions out and built pens. There's sheep in there now and we mainly feed outside in a coral to reduce cleaning inside as the barn cleaned is jammed in back. The door is too narrow to get a skid steer in and roof barely 6' with less at the beams.

Hard to do much with these old barns but they are beautiful.


----------



## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Have been contemplating cutting the foundation wall and filling the cleaner trough so a skid steer could get in to clean. Would take a few new columns to make straighter lines to drive along inside but could improve the use of the space.


----------



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

What about a bale processor? We use an older Vermeer Hay Buster that chops round bales into 4 inch pieces. We feed outside and in a windrow. Can't see why it could not be stationary and blown into a conveyor.


----------

