# Drum mowers



## Troy (Aug 23, 2013)

I've just about got to get something new to cut hay with before next year. Disc mowers have just gone up too much, since I last bought one. I have been looking at drum mowers. Specifically Zetor drum mowers. I roll up about 200 rolls of fescue hay every year. Anybody ever owned one? I hate to step out and buy one not knowing anything about them. At less than half the price of a disc mower, they are tempting. I'd like to have something bought to cut hay with before the end of the year.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Troy, maybe you can find a late model used disc mower at a estate sale this spring that would suit your needs. Many folks still take care of their equipment and a mower a few years old would be more desirable IMO than a drum mower.

Regards, Mike


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

We bought a PZ Zweegers CM212 drum mower brand new in 88 or 89... been running it ever since. Pretty indestructible. I cut roadsides for YEARS with that mower, as well as our own pastures and meadows. It's been pretty good maintenance wise... The biggest problem I've had with it is the stupid metric driveshaft and the overrun clutch (which has the yoke cast into it... the Waltersheide caps got loose in it and eventually ripped out, and I had to replace the clutch hub... then one time I was doing a custom job for a guy one some really rough hog-wallowed ground running about 5 mph and the "snap-back" (spring trip) arm broke, and it folded the mower straight back to transport position with the PTO running-- snapped the yoke again. Replaced the driveshaft with an aftermarket cheaper driveshaft with a built-in overrunning clutch from the dealer in Shiner and no problems since. I wore out a set of skid disks underneath, probably from skidding across gravel and even blacktop driveways when I cut road hay... The only problem I've had in the gearbox was a "cluster gear" (input gear that turns 90 degrees from the belt pulley to the cross-shaft that drives the drums) go out... that cost about $750 to get fixed at the dealer shop... the skid disks were about $350-400 new a few years ago...

They're good mowers, but they DO sweep all the hay toward the center of the mower (on twin-drum models, on four-drum models they make a pair of 'mini-windrows'). That CAN slow drying a LOT... since our hay season here is usually bumping up against 100 degree days and blazing hot sun and wind, it's not a problem for us in the usual grass hays... I've done haygrazer with it though and if it's big and stemmy, you'll either need a LONG time to dry or a tedder or crimper... I picked up an old NH 402 pull-type crimper (the old ones that went behind a sicklebar mower) just for haygrazer... For fine stemmed stuff you might be alright though... depending on your local conditions.

Seeing that the thing is pushing 30 years old, and had a LOT of bales go through it (I used to run a small custom round baling operation as well as baling for our own farms here and at Shiner) plus all kinds of junk with road hay (which I eventually just gave up on-- last time I cut road hay the mower would make a loud "WHUMP!" and I'd look back to see an old tire flipped up in the swath, or an old oil filter shooting out the back like a cannonball, and even once there was this gawdawful noise and I looked back to see a TOILET had gone through the mower... the gubmint makes throwing everything away ILLEGAL and then charges fees to get rid of it, so now everything just ends up in the roadside ditches... not worth the trouble or risks to bale road hay around here anymore... plus the gubmint doesn't like it-- too much "risk of getting hit"... had to fight the gubmint for the hay last time I baled road hay, and not worth the trouble...

She's been a tough old bird and still got life left in her, but the thing is, MAKE SURE YOU CAN GET PARTS AND SERVICE. I can get parts, but I have to WAIT for them... sometimes for a good long while... I'm thinking seriously of moving up to a newer disk mower in the next couple years or so for those very reasons...

Later and good luck! OL JR


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## Troy (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. A Zetor brand is all that is available near me. I hope I can get parts for it.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Troy said:


> Thanks for the replies. A Zetor brand is all that is available near me. I hope I can get parts for it.


I've been down that road before, when IH decided to start "freezing out" old cotton pickers by stopping providing the parts for them. After ever harder uphill battles to find parts, scavenging every junkpile at neighbors all over the country, and having them come scavenge from me as well (and ain't it a PITA when the part you need is the exact same part THEY need, and NOBODY has one left anymore!) IH wanted to FORCE the old machines into the junkyard, well, they succeeded, but I tell you what-- I'd be [email protected] before I bought another red machine!!! Talked to a Deere guy who was a mechanic and sold aftermarket parts himself and when I asked about parts he told me "Sure, I can get you anything all the way back to the old one row cotton pickers from the 50's..." SO, when I bought a newer machine to replace the red junk, I bought DEERE...

Never underestimate the importance of a good parts supply/supplier... You need to be CONFIDENT that the parts will be available, not just TODAY, but tomorrow and years down the road as well. A lot of people got burned buying Gehl equipment years ago just to see them up and dump the ag market-- by law they have to provide parts for a certain number of years, but after that... well, when some $1.99 part breaks that you HAVE to have and CAN'T get ANYWHERE ELSE, well, you've got a very expensive lawn ornament....

Heck I'm about done with Ford... my 2002 F-150 failed inspection and had some codes in the computer, got it tested and appears to be either a busted lower plastic intake manifold (underneath the aluminum manifold) or bad intake gaskets. Truck is in the shop now. Had to take it to a different shop to get it smoke tested to find the leak and they were hunting high and low, and Ford quit making the stupid plastic intake manifold... and NOBODY else makes it either... They were scrounging through their regular salvage yard contacts and NO JOY... nobody had one. Gave them a couple days and took the truck back to the shop I usually use... they're hunting for a manifold now. Apparently, Ford has decided they won't make any plastic intake manifolds for a truck that's over 10 years old. We've been Ford buyers for 40 years (not exclusively, but mostly) and I can say that after this, I don't think I'll be buying any more Ford products... my old man's 2000 Escort was THE most shameful POS vehicle I have ever seen... I see why they only built them two years-- they should have never left the factory given how poorly they were designed and built... My Dad let my wife use it for a work car because it only had about 80,000 miles on it when he became disabled and couldn't work anymore, and we hated to see it just rot... after the problems I had with it and with fixing it, and what a cheap total piece of crap it was compared to the earlier 90's Escorts we'd had (91 and 95) We finally gave it to my cousin who let a friend wreck her car at college and was doing without a car... and we didn't do her MUCH of a favor at that considering what a POS the car was. This 2002 pickup isn't as good as the 96 pickup it replaced, and it in turn wasn't as good as the 91... Ford's been going downhill for a while now it seems; quality has been out the window for awhile, and now they want to freeze stuff out and force it to the junkyard for lack of parts... I don't play that way-- I'll get something else that I can get parts for... Screw Ford!

That's been my experience, and the best advice I can give anybody is, before you buy ANYTHING, MAKE SURE that you can get the parts and service you need... sure a lot of stuff you can fix yourself, but sometimes you might want or need dealer support or service. Thing is, though, neither YOU nor THEY can fix ANYTHING if they CAN'T GET THE PARTS! Another thing to take into consideration is the PRICE of parts as well as their availability. Some parts are just STUPID expensive... and if it's something that is prone to breakage or wearing out and thus has to be replaced frequently, that can REALLY add up-- it can make an otherwise "cheap to buy" machine a COSTLY NIGHTMARE to own! Plus, you need to know that the parts are going to be there, either on the dealer shelves, or increasingly, ordered... Parts that have to be ordered need to be there in a reasonable amount of time... a couple days or so at most. Having to wait for parts to be shipped in from overseas, sometimes taking a couple weeks or more, is NO GOOD on a machine that you NEED to have up and running to keep your operation moving forward...

One time I was in the NH dealer checking on some rake parts, and a guy came in practically in a panic... his cyclone seeder gearbox had stripped out and he was at his wits end trying to find parts... he had the broken parts and asked the old parts guy if he had them... He looked them over, and scratched his head, and said, "What's this out of?" "My seeder" the guy said. "What brand?? Where'd you buy it?" the partsman asked... "TSC" the guy said... "Naw, I don't have any parts for anything like that... did you try TSC?" "Yeah... they said they can't get parts either, and wanted to sell me a new one", the guy said... "Well, we sell them here, and we carry parts for the ones we sell, but I can't get anything for those no-name spreaders from TSC...", the partsman said... "Yeah, but your's costs like $900, where the TSC one is like $600...", the guy complained... "Yeah, but I can get parts for the $900 one I sell-- what can you get for the $600 one you bought?? Nuthin'... Might have looked like you saved a lot of money, but now you either get to buy another $600 wonder with no backup and no parts, or I can sell you a $900 one right now that I can get any part you might need down the road for it..." The guy just stalked out...

Bargains that you can't get parts for are NO BARGAIN AT ALL...

I'm not saying that the Zetor machine is bad, or you can't get parts... I'm saying CHECK FIRST, find out their REPUTATION among folks in your area... you can have a GOOD BRAND and a LOUSY DEALER and be in much the same boat... been there, done that too...

Good luck! OL JR


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

Just out of curiosity does anyone read all the stuff that Luke "OL JR" types in these long winded post????


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Absolutely. His experience is worth it's weight in gold. I read every word. You should too. You might learn something, but then you might not.....

Just Say'in.....


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rajela said:


> Just out of curiosity does anyone read all the stuff that Luke "OL JR" types in these long winded post????


Who's holding a gun to your head to make you read it??

Geez...

Later! OL JR


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

Just talk to some of the vendors, I did and found them to be pretty staight forward and Helpful. I talked to SFI and Hay tools (I think) any way the drum mower is a good machine and simple to maintain the blades on. bjr


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## powerstroke444e (Jul 31, 2014)

I just priced out a kuhn pz170 it was only 400 more than other less known brands around here anyone running one?


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> Who's holding a gun to your head to make you read it??
> 
> Geez...
> 
> Later! OL JR


No body is holding a gun to my head and I don't read it.


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## kballein (Nov 3, 2014)

I just bought a used Zetor drum mower this year. It's 14 years old, but cuts very well. I has used a sickle bar, a Superior double cut sickle bar and most recently a JD 1217 mower conditioner prior to the drum mower. I was very impressed with the drum mower, cut my mowing time by at least a third, but had to ted it. Before I bought the drum mower, I checked for Zetor Dealers in my area. There happens to be one about 45 minutes from home.

Probably the most common part you'll need are new blades. Tractor Supply does not carry blades for Zetor drum mowers. I had to go to the dealer to get them, but judging from the first cut with the old completely worn out blaces I'll be fine with these for quite awhile.

I agree with the others, the most important thing is to have a dealer within reach that stocks common parts.


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## wittegeit (Jul 12, 2009)

Kuhn took over the former PZ factory some 5 years ago, parts for PZ drummowers should be available through your local Kuhn dealer.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

rajela said:


> No body is holding a gun to my head and I don't read it.


I had a guy with a 12 ga pointed at me at I still couldn't read it all......

Luke, it's amazing sometimes the clarity of memory you have while recounting your horror stories of dealing with various peoples.....but if you come off in person the way you do in text, I can understand why you have so many problems......sometimes clear, concise questions and answers have a far greater impact.....whether it be spoken or written word. Your entire response was summed up in the last paragraph, a very good paragraph without all of the clutter.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rajela said:


> No body is holding a gun to my head and I don't read it.


So, you just like to gripe and whine and complain...

I see now...

Sure adds a lot to the conversation... Impressive!

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I had a guy with a 12 ga pointed at me at I still couldn't read it all......
> 
> Luke, it's amazing sometimes the clarity of memory you have while recounting your horror stories of dealing with various peoples.....but if you come off in person the way you do in text, I can understand why you have so many problems......sometimes clear, concise questions and answers have a far greater impact.....whether it be spoken or written word. Your entire response was summed up in the last paragraph, a very good paragraph without all of the clutter.


Maybe...

Different folks have different ways...

FWIW...

Later! OL JR


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## rajela (Feb 15, 2014)

luke strawwalker said:


> So, you just like to gripe and whine and complain...
> 
> I see now...
> 
> ...


I just say whats on my mind and that is it...Short, sweet and to the point. No beating around the bush or long winded bull shit lines here....YMMV


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

rajela said:


> I just say whats on my mind and that is it...Short, sweet and to the point. No beating around the bush or long winded bull shit lines here....YMMV


Me too... good for you!

Have a good one! OL JR


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

I've been lurking on here for a while researching drum mowers, and I guess it's finally time for me to actually reply to something. 
I have been looking at them for about a year now, I can honestly say I had never even heard of drum mowers before and can't really say how I came by them. But anyway I've been looking for something to mow headache free (relatively) in place of a NH haybine. Which I think is fairly common for people looking into drum mowers. I do farm fulltime, but unfortunately it is for someone else, so my own farm adventures are put to the side most of the time.
I do all the cropwork and equipment maintenance for a dairy farm up here, among other things (in the middle of milking right now). So I'm usually pretty busy during the summer, last year was the first year I've made feed for my own cattle, which my fiance and I bought last July. Trying to mow with a sickle bar mower conditioner in heavy first cut for myself, plus trying to put up quality feed at work was a balacing act to say the least. I run the dairy farm's equipment at work, which for the most part is more than adequate. We have a Kuhn 353RGC at work. 
I would love to run out and buy a brand new Krone disc mower but unfortunately that just isn't how things go. I need something that can fit through narrow barways, can be run on relatively light, low hp tractors (JD 2030 and JD 2240), mow without plugging in the early AM and late PM when the dew is still on the ground. And probably most importantly, cheap. I can find used 3pt disc mowers and disc conditioners cheap enough around here, but I need to finance whatever I buy. I don't have the cash laying around to go out and buy a decent used mower, between paying for cows, a truck and a wedding this year! Plus a new drum mower has a warranty, Zetor's being the best at 3 years parts and labor. 
Now I talked to the sales guy at Zetor NA in Florida and a random customer service person at Kuhn NA. I was told by the guy at Zetor that they are trying to trying to really push drum mowers in 2015 with demo programs. I asked if that also meant price breaks or better financing but he said he didn't know as of now. The Kuhn rep I talked to said Kuhn is only marketing the PZ170 here for the forseeable future. I had asked about the 190 and 210. 
I am 95 percent sure I'll end up with a Zetor 185H this April once tax returns come back. Zetor sells a wider mower than Kuhn, plus hydraulic lift. And I trust the Czechs to build equipment a little more than the Turks, CCM. There are enough Zetor dealers up here, and I don't think Zetor is going anywhere anytime soon, their new equipment seems much improved over their old communist junk. 
There are some downsides obviously, it is only 6.2 feet wide. No conditioner really sucks, and there is nothing worse than 3pt equipment at the end of a long day, especially since you can't hook it up to a truck to move to the next field. But cheap and simple equipment is hard to come by. And it beats renting and borrowing, and in the future when I do get a decent pull type disc conditioner this should make a good back up.
Sorry for the long winded response, just trying to get my opinion in the mix. If anything it made milking fly by typing a sentance in between every few cows.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

I've seen them on dealer lots mostly the Reese but have never seen them operate in a field would like to see one of them mowing just out of curiosity.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

rajela said:


> Just out of curiosity does anyone read all the stuff that Luke "OL JR" types in these long winded post????


Yea I read them every word guys got some pretty good information in his posts, I would probably post some that long myself if was not too lazy to type that much or could afford to hire me a sexytary to dictate to. LOL


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

cornshucker said:


> Yea I read them every word guys got some pretty good information in his posts, I would probably post some that long myself if was not too lazy to type that much or could afford to hire me a sexytary to dictate to. LOL


I'm thankful for your laziness


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

MDill said:


> I've been lurking on here for a while researching drum mowers, and I guess it's finally time for me to actually reply to something.
> I have been looking at them for about a year now, I can honestly say I had never even heard of drum mowers before and can't really say how I came by them. But anyway I've been looking for something to mow headache free (relatively) in place of a NH haybine. Which I think is fairly common for people looking into drum mowers. I do farm fulltime, but unfortunately it is for someone else, so my own farm adventures are put to the side most of the time.
> I do all the cropwork and equipment maintenance for a dairy farm up here, among other things (in the middle of milking right now). So I'm usually pretty busy during the summer, last year was the first year I've made feed for my own cattle, which my fiance and I bought last July. Trying to mow with a sickle bar mower conditioner in heavy first cut for myself, plus trying to put up quality feed at work was a balacing act to say the least. I run the dairy farm's equipment at work, which for the most part is more than adequate. We have a Kuhn 353RGC at work.
> I would love to run out and buy a brand new Krone disc mower but unfortunately that just isn't how things go. I need something that can fit through narrow barways, can be run on relatively light, low hp tractors (JD 2030 and JD 2240), mow without plugging in the early AM and late PM when the dew is still on the ground. And probably most importantly, cheap. I can find used 3pt disc mowers and disc conditioners cheap enough around here, but I need to finance whatever I buy. I don't have the cash laying around to go out and buy a decent used mower, between paying for cows, a truck and a wedding this year! Plus a new drum mower has a warranty, Zetor's being the best at 3 years parts and labor.
> ...


It all depends on your priorities and situation... Do what works best for you, but here's some things to consider...

You didn't say how much ground you're covering or what the conditions are like... If you're on hills or whatever, the drum mower might be a little much for smaller tractor, as they tend to be pretty heavy for their size...

The other thing is, you told us quite a bit about your time challenges in getting stuff done, with a full time dairy job... I run a 5610S Ford/New Holland tractor pulling my 7 foot 4 inch Zweegers drum mower at 6mph (6th gear) and I recently cut two 22 acre fields side by side... (fence down the middle) and it took a solid 10 hours... that was only stopping three times to jump off and pee behind the back tire when I was in the back corner of the field away from the road... no stopping for lunch (not even a sandwich in the field) just flat out full speed running. A 6 foot mower is going to cover even less ground. That's why I'd love to move up to a 9 ft 6 in disk mower when I can.

It might not be a problem for you, but then again, it's something worth considering. Like you said, moving from field to field or whatever is something else to consider. So is the "new vs. used" arguments... Aside from the "buy new so you never have problems, (which isn't necessarily true by a longshot) and spend a lot of money up front, rather than buy used and possibly have it break down on you in the middle of "crunch time" (and have to spend money on parts and lost time you could have spent up front on a new machine)" If time is a serious issue, a used 9 foot disk mower will cover a LOT more ground faster than a 6 foot new drum mower... and getting done faster means less hours on the tractor (and mower too) and less fuel.

So, like everything in life-- it's a tradeoff...

Best of luck! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

cornshucker said:


> I've seen them on dealer lots mostly the Reese but have never seen them operate in a field would like to see one of them mowing just out of curiosity.


Our dealer sold Reese mowers for a couple years after we bought our Zweegers... (about the time Zweegers got bought out/merged and became "PZ Greenland"... though our dealer had brochures out for them and I guess would have ordered one if anyone wanted to order one... but he never kept one in stock). The Reese mowers are wider than the Zweegers and similar drum mowers (up to around ten foot in 3 pt models IIRC) and quite a bit simpler in their drive system-- they're all belt drive-- no gears whatsoever. Of course this does have a downside... Since it's all belt driven, the drums can't be timed to each other so the knives can overlap... to make up for this, the drums are staggered front to back from each other to provide the blade overlap. The Reese mowers also don't have a full bottom disk-- it's a "half front" disk and a skid in the back, basically the same shape (but much bigger) than the skid plates under disk mowers... To supplement this and reduce ground drag/scuffing, they use an outboard "crazy wheel" running just inside the end of the cut swath.

One neat thing the Reese mowers offer that none of the other drum mowers have is the "tedder" option... It's taken a couple different forms-- it used to be a horizontal shaft spinning a vertical disk with 8 (IIRC) curved tines mounted to it that would fling the cut hay to the left as it was cut, toward/onto the previous cut swath. Later models replaced this type with a slightly tilted vertical shaft spinning a smaller horizontal but slanted disk with three "tines" sticking out of it down toward the ground, more like a "regular tedder", again, slinging the cut hay out of the narrow windrow as it emerges from between the drums, over to the left onto the previous cut swath...

That's one thing one also has to consider with a drum mower-- they put the cut swath into windrows that can extend drydown time considerably, depending on the local climate and crop... Might require teddering to really spread it out so that the hay can dry in a timely manner... if you don't have a tedder or don't have a lot of time, or are in an area that doesn't have particularly good drydown conditions, it could be an issue one should consider...

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> I'm thankful for your laziness


Everybody's a critic... LOL

Later! OL JR


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## J Man (Sep 20, 2015)

Nothing has been said on this subject in a couple months, anyone have any updates on their opinions or thoughts on drum conditioners?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Drum CONDITIONERS?? Most of this discussion was about drum MOWERS, but I guess much the same information would apply. I don't know of anybody that made a drum conditioner except Reese. I saw one at the Lubbock Farm Show years ago and it looked like a really good machine-- four drums feeding a pair of conditioning rollers...

Later! OL JR


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

luke strawwalker said:


> Drum CONDITIONERS?? Most of this discussion was about drum MOWERS, but I guess much the same information would apply. I don't know of anybody that made a drum conditioner except Reese. I saw one at the Lubbock Farm Show years ago and it looked like a really good machine-- four drums feeding a pair of conditioning rollers...Later! OL JR


Think he's talking about the galfre black hole conditioning system......looks like 4 pieces of square stock welded to the top of the drum........supposedly helps with windrowing and conditioning....I have my doubts but perhaps


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## J Man (Sep 20, 2015)

Sorry I meant mower. I am a newb so I get my terms confused from time to time. I also can't type worth a crap so I may have a lot of misspelled words. I am needing to buy equipment though so I am here to learn what would be the best to get the job done and save me time.


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

There are drum conditioners out there. I had been seriously considering a drum mower this spring, I ended up getting a deal on a couple used Kuhn disc mowers and so I still haven't run a drum mower. 
Biggest kicker for me was speed, the two selling points on drum mowers are non stop cutting and speed. I just can't hit the speeds they advertise on our rough, ledgy NH fields to make the 6.25' cutting width make sense. If I'm going slow with a 8' disc mower I'm still covering 8'. One of the other reasons was I don't really like how drum mowers make a narrow windrow, I really like the wide flat swath from behind the disc mower.
That said I'd still like to find a decent used drum mower to keep as a back up and be able to rent out when someone needs a back up mower.
As far as drum conditioners they are out there and I think they are an awesome idea, they solve the windrow issue and I think drum mower sales would be higher if there were more drum conditioners available. 
The two I looked into were the Agrostroj 186, they make the Zetor drum mowers (165/185) and the Samasz drum mowers. The 186 is a cool little mower, just a Zetor 185 but with a flail conditioning drum. 
I asked them about importing one since the conditioner is basically a bolt on module, you can take it on and off without tools. They responded quickly which was surprising, they are a Czech company. But unfortunately they said there just isn't a high enough demand for the mowers with conditioners and they no longer make them. 
I also tried to contact Haytools.com about Samasz drum conditioners since they sell a wider drum mower, with and without conditioners. Haytools imports other Samasz equipmemt so it was worth a shot. I didn't hear anything back from them, I was going to follow up with a phone call but found my disc mowers before.
I'm still keeping an eye out for one at auction!


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

somedevildawg said:


> Think he's talking about the galfre black hole conditioning system......looks like 4 pieces of square stock welded to the top of the drum........supposedly helps with windrowing and conditioning....I have my doubts but perhaps


Oh, ok... I'll have to look that one up...

My Zweegers has a pair of "transport strips" on the drums that help keep the hay moving between the drums... they're basically 2 little flat blades about 1/16 inch thick by about an inch or so wide and about 4 inches long. I found out one time cutting some viney stuff that those things need to be in good condition, because in effect they will "cut" anything trying to slide up over the drum, and if they're worn out, dull, or missing, stuff will have to be "torn" by the drum between the uncut swath and the rest of the sward which is going between the drums to be discharged out the back.

Sounds like this "black hole" stuff is something broadly similar, but using four of them instead... I don't see how they could do much of any conditioning... I guess I'll have to look it up and see for myself.

Course, any mower named "black hole" doesn't exactly inspire confidence IMHO... LOL

Later! OL JR


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

J Man said:


> Sorry I meant mower. I am a newb so I get my terms confused from time to time. I also can't type worth a crap so I may have a lot of misspelled words. I am needing to buy equipment though so I am here to learn what would be the best to get the job done and save me time.


What sort of tractor are you gonna run it on... what are your fields like?? What crop(s) and conditions?? What's your terrain like??

There's a lot of things to consider before deciding what's "best"...

I run a PZ Zweegers CM212 (212 centimeter cut, or about 7.5 feet). Two roughly 3.5 foot disks connected to overhead drums below the overhead gearbox, turning about 2350 RPM IIRC... four blades per drum, mounted on spring-loaded pins (you use a tool that grabs the edge of the disk and has a pin that pokes through a little hole in the disk, you pry up and it pushes the spring loaded blade holder down enough to slip the blade up and off the pin (if there's not too much dirt and duff in there that you have to knock out first). Swapping the blades from right to left disk and vice versa takes about five minutes, and the blades are cheap enough in a box of 25 from the dealership...

We cut mostly bermuda and prairie hay, but I've cut everything from 8 foot tall Sorghum-sudan, soybeans, johsongrass, bahia, bunchgrasses like bluestem and smutgrass, thick stuff like winter ryegrass, you name it. Used to cut a lot of road hay in the old days and the drum mower even sawed a big ol' heavy Cadillac hubcap in half without a hiccup...

We run Ford 5610S tractors, about 72 engine horsepower... As long as my blades aren't completely dull, I can run in virtually anything in 6th gear at 1800 RPM (PTO rated speed) at 6 mph. She can handle it just fine... I've cut waist high Dallisgrass mixed prairie hay that was so thick you could barely see where the mower had run on the last pass, because the cut sward opened back up SO wide after passing between the drums (that's the biggest drawback of the drum mowers-- EVERYTHING gets swept in between the drums and discharged out the back in the center-- thus it doesn't lay stuff out "full swath width" like a disk mower or sicklebar mower), and it never missed a beat.

We bought the mower new in about 1988 or 89, and we've run it every year since. I used to do some custom work as well with it. It's showing its age, but it's held up pretty well... in all that time, the biggest repair I've had to make was replacing the "cluster gear" that goes behind the drive pulley and turns the power 90 degrees to the cross-shaft that turns the contra-rotating drums... It still has the original drums and saucers, though I replaced the blade pins and moved them to the next set of holes over (each disk has precut holes for 8 blade positions-- that way when the skirt edge wears you can move all the blade holders to the next set of holes, just make sure you use opposite sets of holes on the opposite drums to maintain blade timing... I did that about five years ago when I replaced the skid saucers underneath, which FINALLY wore out-- and considering how much gravel and pavement they slid over when I was doing road hay, that's a LOT of wear!! They were a little expensive, but name any other mower that the skid shoes last 25 years on!?!!)

Other than that, the gearbox has only been gone into that one time. Everything else has been "external"... She's on her third set of belts and needs new skirting, but she cuts fine. Replaced the PTO shaft a few years ago after the U-joint tore up, and the caps in the overrunning clutch hub were too loose to fit right anymore... (that overrun clutch hub is a bit expensive, replaced it once already, and the second one that went out, my dealer got me a "TISCO" universal type driveshaft with an overrunning clutch built in, cheaper than just the factory overrun clutch hub with the built-in yoke).

The only real "gripe" I have about the machine is that it's only 7.5 foot cut. I'd REALLY like to move up to a 9-9.5 foot cut, like a New Holland 617... It'd be nice to get done faster. I ran a 9 foot Kuhn on a 5610S for a guy a few years ago, and it was a good match... once I got it set up correctly, which the idgit dealer didn't do!

I did pick up an old IH sickle mower for use on sorghum-sudan, if I ever grow any more again... the Zweegers drum mower will handle sorghum-sudan just fine, BUT, it lays it in a "windrow" behind the mower, and without conditioning it or course. This REALLY lengthens the dry-down time for thick-stemmed stuff like sorghum-sudan. Course, I guess if I got a tedder and tedded it out, it'd probably be a moot point...

I actually like the fact that it puts it in a "mini-windrow" for most fine-stemmed grasses like bermuda and native/prairie hays... it reduces the sun bleaching while it dries... Here in mid-summer, with near 100 degree temps, I can cut one day, rake 24 hours later, and bale 24 hours after that in fine-stemmed grass hay...

When I was custom cutting, I did a LOT of little irregular shaped fields that a lot of BTO's didn't want to mess with. A 3 point mounted drum mower (or disk mower) can get in some tighter fields and do a better job than most pull-type mo-co's or larger drag-type mowers... course that might not be an issue for you...

Now that I'm older and doing just our stuff, and have less help, I'd LOVE to have a caddy, but due to the way the drum mowers transport, I couldn't put it on a caddy... The Zweegers mower transports by folding STRAIGHT BACK behind the tractor... when you get to the field, you pull a rope, which flips the "transport lock" that prevents it from bouncing, and lower the mower to the ground. Then you pull a second rope and keep pulling it to release the spring loaded folding pin in the "swing-away" arm... then you shift the tractor into reverse, cut the front wheels to the left, and back up, which swings the mower around to the right side of the tractor into working position... release the rope and the pin "snaps in" and you're ready to cut (make sure the mower is level and cutting height adjusted, and 3 pt. height is in the top 1/2 of the mast slots to minimize ground pressure). Folding for transport is exactly the opposite...

It'll make a 5610S a little light on the front end when it's in full transport position... I wouldn't recommend a much smaller tractor... drum mowers are usually pretty heavy compared to a comparable disk mower...

I saw in the manual that they DID sell a cylinder kit to replace the drag link on top of the mower gearbox, to raise the drums vertical for transport, so it MIGHT be possible to put it on a caddy (if it doesn't tip over... LOL)

Be aware that SOME drum mower designs (the newer, cheaper ones mostly) require MANUALLY folding the mower into working position and back into transport position-- NO THANKS!!!)

Now, PZ Greenland (Zweegers was bought out by Greenland, which is part of the Kverneland group now IIRC) sold a wider cut version of this mower, with four smaller drums instead of two large ones... it left two smaller windrows behind it as it cut, instead of the single larger one... but it could also be had in a 9-9.5 foot cut width as well. Dunno if they still make them or sell them in the US or not, though... our dealer is strictly Kuhn now... (although I don't care for the Kuhn cutterbar design-- When I replace the Zweegers, I'm getting a shaft-driven independent gear box module New Holland mower-- looks like a better design for the anthills and crap we deal with around here...)

The other big manufacturer is Reese drum mowers out of New Zealand or Australia... those are belt driven, NO gearbox whatsoever... Our dealer sold a few of those for a few years and then dropped them, not sure why. Since there's no gearbox to keep the blades in time so they miss one another, the Reese offsets one drum in front of the other, so they can "overlap" in the center and not leave a stripe uncut, without the blades physically overlapping each other when turning. I wasn't particularly thrilled with the Reese mower's design, having a silly little crazy wheel out there to hold up the outer end of the disk, and not having full rotating skid saucers underneath like the Zweegers, but half-saucer-with-tail type skid plates (like a really big version of a disk mower skid plate). Too many brambles and crap to bother with a little crazy wheel going flat all the time IMHO).

I do like the design of the drive system on the Reese mowers... one or two belts, not much to go wrong. Reese's also incorporated an add-on tedder attachment that would throw the windrow around as it came out the back of the mower and spread it out some to aid drying time... not a true tedder but more like the old style "flapper belt" combine straw spreaders I guess...

The reason we originally bought the Zweegers was that, at the time, we had been running an ANCIENT Ford 501 sickle mower, designed to fit a Ford 8N or Jubilee, and it didn't work very good on the Ford 6600 we were running... plus the fire ant hills and crap were REALLY plugging up the old sickle machines and EVERYBODY was dumping the sickles for the "new fangled" disk mowers... At the time, disk mowers were just coming into the area, and the choices were basically the old-style non-top-service bar Kuhn- type machines (including the New Holland 416, which was just a rebranded Kuhn machine) and the Zweegers drum mower... Just strictly looking at it as a maintenance decision, I figured there was a LOT less to go wrong with 6 gears in an OVERHEAD gearbox on the Zweegers drum mower, than with about 23 disk, drive, and idler gears running in a gearbox cutterbar down in the dirt underneath it all... I can say that on that score I certainly was correct...

Anyway, that's my experience and reasoning... It's been a good machine, but, when it's time to replace it, I'd like to get a New Holland 617 9 foot disk mower with the individual modules, mounted on a caddy to eliminate the 3 point hitching... back up, drop the pin in, hook up a couple hoses and the PTO, and go to the field... As far as disk machines go, the Kuhn is a fine machine, I ran one and liked it, but repair... Ugh, hate to think about it... Hear good things about Krone's too, but again, 20-odd gears running in a sealed bar down in the dirt underneath it all doesn't appeal to me... At least the NH has individual modules with little shafts between them-- one can slit the bar easily and rebuild or replace a module or shaft without too much difficulty... certainly better than having to gut a gearbox cutterbar, and no chance of shavings or metal bits running from one end of the bar to the other like a common-sump gearbox cutterbar type either...

Hope this helps... tell us more about your conditions and tractor and we can discuss things better...

Later! OL JR


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## wittegeit (Jul 12, 2009)

PZ Zweegers→Greenland→Kverneland, since 2009 Kuhn.

Meaning Kuhn now sells the PZ drum mower.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

wittegeit said:


> PZ Zweegers→Greenland→Kverneland, since 2009 Kuhn.
> Meaning Kuhn now sells the PZ drum mower.


Good to know... Thanks!

I used to collect the sales brochures when the new models would come out from the dealership, but he quit selling Greenland-Kverneland stuff about the time they merged/buyed out/whatever...

So I've kinda lost touch over the years...

Later! OL JR


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

Kuhn only sells the dinky model though, for some reason they don't market the larger drum mowers in the US.


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## J Man (Sep 20, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> What sort of tractor are you gonna run it on... what are your fields like?? What crop(s) and conditions?? What's your terrain like??
> 
> There's a lot of things to consider before deciding what's "best"...
> 
> ...


Wow, a lot of information there which is great.

I currently have a 40 hp Deere but I am looking for a 90 - 100 hp cabbed tractor at the moment. My field is 60/40 alfalfa/grass. I have been dependent on others this year for doing the work in the field and it has not worked out for the best in my opinion so I need to be able to make sure I can do it myself next year.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

J Man said:


> Wow, a lot of information there which is great.
> 
> I currently have a 40 hp Deere but I am looking for a 90 - 100 hp cabbed tractor at the moment. My field is 60/40 alfalfa/grass. I have been dependent on others this year for doing the work in the field and it has not worked out for the best in my opinion so I need to be able to make sure I can do it myself next year.


If you're going with that much of a tractor, I'd go with at least a 9 foot mower...

Heck a tractor that size, you might run into problems just getting a drum mower to fit on it...

Plus, a big tractor is going to burn a lot of fuel per hour regardless of how hard you work it... might as well team it up with a bigger mower that will get the job done sooner...

Later! OL JR


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## J Man (Sep 20, 2015)

Thank you.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Ran one for 20 years. 3

Two things, they are heavy on a 3 pt. Had a 45 hp tractor and it would pull it but could not lift it. Needed a 60 hp to lift it.

With age I learned it is better to lay hay out in a wide swath than in a windrow.

Use a NH disk mower now.

Run anything long enough you will find problems.


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