# Inputs for Fall planting Alfalfa



## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

OK O'Masters of Forage time to use your knowledge.......I have 1 field left that I have to do a (money loosing) soybean run on. I'll plant short season beans , pull'em off in early Sept...... I'm going in with a fall dormant ,winter hardy Alfalfa (America's) . Should I fully fertilize before planting the Alfalfa(Boron,potassium) in the fall when the plants really won't be using it , or wait til next spring ? The field is in good shape nutrient wise and 6.7 ph...low for Alfalfa on the B&P....But leeching over the winter am I going to waste money ? Keep in mind fella's I'm in the Mid-Atlantic region.......Thanks........Tater


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I believe it is always best to incorporate Boron into the soil when possible....so you might as well do the Potassium at the same time...you will not loose anything of either by doing so and you will be that much further ahead for the new plants...especially if you have a wet following spring and find it difficult to get on the new stand.

Regards, Mike


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Should we assume that you're going to incorporate a ton of lime per acre before planting beans? Will you do no-till seeding of the alfalfa, or will the soil surface be too rough, and leave too much bean stubble in the first alfalfa hay cutting?


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I plan to test PH after the bean run ,I'm at 6.7 right now(I'll lime regardless if needed after beans) , I'll run the Landsman over it , work in the bean stubble then use my great plains no-till drill to put in the alfalfa/orchard....if I add boron /potash as I'm asking here, it will be before I work it....Remember ,I'm not out west , potash is gold here ! That's why I'm worried about leeching during a dormant crop.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Put your Potash on the alfalfa after you take the first cutting if it is not highly low on K. First cutting of alfalfa will gorge on the K.

Regards, Mike


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

I respectively disagree on when to apply the first treatment of potash, but only because if potash is not applied preplant and no other fertilizer is applied, there is no way to apply the boron that will be needed. When acid soils are limed, what little boron is in these soils can become unavailable. Three to four pounds of boron needed for alfalfa would be difficult to apply by itself as Granubor contains about 15% boron. Three pounds of boron would amount to 45 lb of Granubor that would need to be blended with some other plant nutrient fertilizer. If potassium is low, 100 lb of potash can be applied preplant blended with boron, and the next potash treatment can be applied after the second cutting. I usually apply up to 300 lb of potash to alfalfa. The first application, blended with boron, is in winter before alfalfa initiates regrowth, the second application follows the second cutting, and the next treatment follows the fourth cutting- here. Weather permitting, I can get six cuttings per season. By the way, potassium will leach, especially in sandy soils, although slowly. Potash applied in fall will still be available to deep rooting alfalfa in spring as alfalfa begins rapid growth.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

vhaby said:


> I respectively disagree on when to apply the first treatment of potash, but only because if potash is not applied preplant and no other fertilizer is applied, there is no way to apply the boron that will be needed.


Yes, I agree about boron/fertilizer application, but in his original post he stated that he would be applying Phosphate to go along with his Boron.

Regards, Mike


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

"VOL" caught the key here on a full blown fertilizing.....My Phosphates are literally off the grid , Most of the Farmland here is being used for grain to feed the chicken industry...The old timers used chicken manure continous for decades to grow corn (why not, it's free)....That has pretty much died out except for a few large operations that will never change. ...Now what's left is soil with heavy phosphorous levels...In some ways good but it (If my Texas A&M Professor was right ?) won't hold onto the potassium (??? Correct ??) Leading to my concern for leeching of the potassium over winter. "VHABY" brings a great wrinkle ...Boron app in spring ....oops !.....Well ,Just gonna have to open the wallet up ! As I said in the beginning , I'm turning all my grainland into alfalfa/orchard grass, It's paying off but I had to give my Wife a Mr. Potato head for Christmas ...running low on disposable income !!!!!!!!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

No doubt that the soil bank will be cash rich with phosphate when using bird manure....with that being the case, either nitrogen or potash would be the choice to spread the boron. If you use potash you might consider putting down 1/2 the potash with the boron down before sowing and the other 1/2 of the potash after you take the first cutting....like I mentioned earlier about the first cutting has a voracious appetite for potash which can result in not leaving enough potash for your later cuttings....especially if you are cost considerate and do not want to keep spreading the potash $.

Regards, Mike


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

What variety/dormancy rating of alfalfa will you use? Americas alfalfa varieties come pre-inoculated, but to be sure, you can re-inoculate the seed immediately before putting it into the drill and plant the same day. New seedings of alfalfa rarely, if ever, need nitrogen fertilization as the plants obtain nitrogen from the air by way of Rhizobia bacteria in a symbiotic relationship on roots near the soil surface. So, the boron will be applied with potash.

Here is a bulletin from Purdue Univ. that discusses P and K fertilization of alfalfa.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

vhaby said:


> New seedings of alfalfa rarely, if ever, need nitrogen fertilization


Respectfully disagree....I think you will find when establishing alfalfa it is a good idea to apply 15-30# of nitrogen upon establishment.....thereafter it is not needed. I think you will find that most alfalfa establishment recommendations(including Purdue) make this recommendation....especially upon lighter soils.

Regards, Mike

https://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/forages/rotational/articles/PDFs-articles/establishment-techniques.pdf


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Far be it for me to give directions but maybe a few suggestions.

A 6.7 pH looks ok to me. But I have an 8.0 pH so I can not say.

Boron will blend with most anything. With a dry fertilizer for sure, but I have blended it with a liquid phosphate fertilizer and that worked, HERE. with 10-34 or 11-37-0, but it will take a real blender to get the job done.

Unless you like 0-45-0 you will get your nitrogen with the phsophate.

I never thought potash would leach off in less than a season. I have heard of split applications of potash, half in the Fall and half in the Spring.

America's Alfalfa works well. I happen to like WL354 HQ for now but that will change as they change their genetics. Oklhoma's Yield trials tell us Public Domain alfalfa can do as well as a companies offerings, unless you have a Pest problem. My pest problem is mostly a wet foot root rot. Fifty years ago the Pea Aphid wiped out several seasons of alfalfa, HERE.

First protected alfalfa was Moapa, then we went to apolo, then Cimmarion, a long string of American and WL varities with a few off years with other companies. Even had two years with Potato Leaf Hoppers.

You may decide your local seed dealer is interested in selling you what they have in the back room or what the District Seed Rep is pushing. Otherwise I would be planting Oklahoma Common or Kansas Common. You might be able to find a Pennsylvania Common or a New York Common.

I do like the treated seed with all kinds of stuff on the coating including Moly.

One thing I believe in is to pull hay samples from each day of baling from each field. I then use the mineral analysis to help monitor fertility.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

I always felt N application on any legume makes the plant "lazy"...Tried it on beans one year and it backfired (all vegetation ,no pods)....I 'm going to take everyone's advise here and quit worrying about leeching (cost of doing biz) and do what the soil tells me in Sept.....Interesting info on America's Alfalfa though....Guys seem to be doing well with it up in the Lancaster area ,and a few of us down here. I focus on the winter survival and tonnage....Can't keep givin the Wife Mr.Potato head for Christmas !! HaHaHa !!!!!


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

There are certain conditions where N applied at seeding may increase seedling year alfalfa yields. One condition is when seeding into cold soils. Here is an article that delves into this question.

Nitrogen Fertilization in Alfalfa Production


D. B. Hannaway** and
P. E. Shuler

*+* Author Affiliations


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Dep. of Crop and Soil Science, Crop Science Building 107, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331

Dep. of Agric. and Biology, Ft. Lewis College, Durango, CO 81301


Abstract

Nitrogen fertilization of alfalfa (Medicago sativa L.) at establishment has been a controversial practice. A review of the literature was conducted to determine conditions when preplant N fertilization of alfalfa resulted in increased yields in the seeding year. Field and lab studies demonstrated that when the soil nitrate levels were greater than 15 ppm and conditions were favorable for effective nodulation (soil pH from 6.2 to 7.5 and high populations of appropriate Rhizobium bacteria present), using preplant N fertilizer in alfalfa establishment did not result in economically important yield increases. Under field conditions that inhibit effective nodulation, alfalfa yield in the seeding year increased when a small amount of N fertilizer (10-50 lb N/acre) was applied. Application of fertilizer N at establishment has been demonstrated to increase yields when soils are low in N (<15 ppm soil nitrate) or organic matter (< 1.5%). Greenhouse and growth chamber research suggests that when alfalfa is established in low N soils that are also relatively cool less than 60°F) for several weeks after planting, a yield increase due to fertilizer N is even more likely. Before deciding to use N in alfalfa establishment, it is necessary to determine levels of soil nitrate and percent organic matter, and to obtain records of soil temperature for the period following the expected planting date.

Research Question

Using N fertilizer in alfalfa establishment has been a controversial practice. A review of the scientific literature was conducted to determine if applying N fertilizer at establishment results in higher yields in the seeding year. Combining the literature search with our research experience, we provide guidelines to the appropriate use of fertilizer N in alfalfa production.

Literature Summary

Applying N fertilizer during alfalfa establishment results in economically beneficial yield increases in the seeding year under certain field conditions. In most alfalfa production conditions, however, with favorable soil pH (6.2-7.5) and soil N levels (>15 ppm soil nitrate), applying fertilizer N at establishment did not result in yield increases. When field conditions were not favorable for effective nodulation, first-cut alfalfa yield increased when fertilizer N was applied. This was observed when soil pH was <6.0 or an ineffective inoculant was used. Applying 10 to 50 lb N/acre at establishment increased yields when soils were low in N (<15 ppm soil nitrate) or organic matter (less than 1.5%). The response of alfalfa to N was increased when the average daily soil temperature remained below about 60°F for several weeks after planting.

Applied Question

*Under what conditions is using N fertilizer in aflalfa establishment most likely to result in increased yield?*

The key to determining the usefulness of fertilizer N in alfalfa establishment is for alfalfa producers to know their soil conditions and to provide favorable conditions for nodulation of alfalfa. Before deciding to use N in alfalfa establishment, it is necessary to determine levels of soil nitrate and percent organic matter, and to obtain records of soil temperature for the period following the expected planting date. The application of 20 to 50 lb N/acre is recommended only when soil nitrate levels are less than 15 ppm, soil organic matter levels are less than 1.5%, and weed control is assured. The likelihood of a yield increase is greater if the average daily soil temperature is less than 60°F for several weeks after planting. Regardless of what decision is made about the use of N in alfalfa production, it is important for the grower to provide favorable conditions for nodulation. This includes adjusting the pH to a minimum of 6.2 and treating seed with an appropriate rhizobial inoculum.

Copyright © 1993. . Copyright © 1993 by the American Society of Agronomy, Crop Science Society of America, and Soil Science Society of America, 5585 Guilford Rd., Madison, WI 53711 USA


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

vhaby said:


> There are certain conditions where N applied at seeding may increase seedling year alfalfa yields. One condition is when seeding into cold soils. Here is an article that delves into this question.
> 
> Nitrogen Fertilization in Alfalfa Production
> 
> ...


Purdue and U of Wisconsin both subscribe to this theory (Best 2 AG colleges in the Nation) You are basically presenting a "kicker" like we do with corn. Case in point , corn seed has every nutrient it needs to get to 4 leaf stage , but the plant is "tired" , the "kicker" or starter N application helps it to recover as this article says in a back way , Heats the ground also. As I said earlier N on my beans didn't fare well , but then again with alfalfa Vegetation is the name of the game not pods ! Run soil tests in Sept and run with the recommendations. Plus "Hay Wilson in TX" has me rethinking alfalfa seed choice now !!!.... I'm beating us all up on $800 !!


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Far be it for me to give directions but maybe a few suggestions.
> 
> A 6.7 pH looks ok to me. But I have an 8.0 pH so I can not say.
> 
> ...


We tried "Cimmarion" .....BAD ......what did make it through the winter we had to smoke and replant the next fall.....We have to have winter hardy "2" , Fall dormancy rating is the tricky one...America's does real well so far , and I like the "tread tolerant" .I'm a small Farm comparatively so I make a lot of passes on the crop. But I'm ALWAYS looking for better


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

If Memory serves Cimarron had a FD 5 rating. If you NEED a FD 2, some one was selling you something they had.
A FD 2 will work here while a FD 8 will not work for you. I understand some growers in Canada plant FD 8 varieties and treat like an annual clover. I have planted a FD 2 that worked as advertised. Very little pest resistance. I had a couple fields in FD 3 for the hopper resistance. It worked ok.

All else being equal I will choose a FD 4 as the Alfalfa Weevils do not thrive in a FD 4, HERE.

In the early 1950's we 'planted a FD 9 Hairy Peruvian. Around the mid 50's the pea aphid found us and we had to change to Moapa a FD 8 and the weevils ate it to the ground. It worked here for 10 to 15 years so that was not too bad. Around that time we could cut alfalfa in December but not in July or August. We still do not grow alfalfa in July or August unless you have water to irrigate, We do not irrigate so maybe get 5 cuttings Late March, Early May, Late June, Late September & maybe mid November. We loose a stand to drought not to a frost.

I believe I will retire at 85. Maybe go back to college and learn something about hay farming at 95.
The colleges may throw me out as a disruptive influence, which should be interesting.


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## Tater Salad (Jan 31, 2016)

College makes you 2nd guess yourself and have a favorite football team !!!!! hahaha!!! I'll take the "old timer's U" any day !! I truly believe you learn the most from hard knocks in this biz and people who really care....people on this website have more knowledge and experience than you could buy in 3 lifetimes. Pretty impressive........My Dad killed himself to send me to A&M , I got done and joined the Navy for 11 years , told him "I needed a break".....he chased me to San Antonio with a shotgun !!!


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