# Small square baler: NH vs JD



## freedomfarm

Would like some opinions of owners of small square balers. I had a JD 14T which was quite worn, but did okay. I then went to a JD 24T. Been using that fro 10 years now. It seems sensative to string mishaps, if a knot doesn't wipe off the bill hook, the shims and cotter pin holding the knotter assembly compress and can force the bill hook to jump the gears and turn around out of place. Some years it was fine others it would act up. This year it finally broke the knotter. It will be repaired and dubbed second string back up baler. I am considering a JD 336 or 338, BUT wonder if they are much better. Neighbors have a NH 273 and the other a NH 276 and both dislike them. Inconsistant bale length and banana bales are a constant problem. They also say they don't like how they handle lighter windrows. My 24T was a bit too slow . . . Wondering about the later NH 315, 316, or 320's with the hay "rake" feed system? Do they do okay on lighter windrows? Banana bales? Consistant bales? I really liked my JD 24T except the "weak" knotter set up, smaller and slower capacity. Very nice even bales . . . So NH? 315? 316? 320? JD? 336? 338? Thanks for any input


----------



## Vol

Did you consider the New Holland 575 and the John Deere 348. Probably the best two offset small square balers ever built. Plenty of used ones of both out there that can be bought worth the money. Regards, Mike P.S. polish the billhook on the 24T with emory cloth at the beginning of each season and I think that will help alleviate your wiping problems.


----------



## saltwater

I agree with hay master. I prefer the NH, very consistant. I prefer the feed forks because I hate unplugging augers. There are people that prefer the JD because it seems to hide the stripe better in striped hay. It is the old ford and chevy argument. I think you should keep in mind closest dealer and their service history. Parts availability ect...


----------



## freedomfarm

Thanks . . . I would love to have either the NH 575 or JD 348 but, they are out of my price range. We only do about 3000 bales a year, use half and sell half. The JD 336's and NH 315/316's are more in my price range ($2500-$5000). Found a 338 I can get for just under 5K, but like how "sturdy" the knotter set up is in the NH's. JD long time dealer very nearby, plus have another JD dealer (turf) I use at work, parts are always one or 2 days at the most, NH wanna be dealer somewhat near and two other NH dealers distant. Parts are almost always 3 days to a week. Hhhhhhmmmmm . . .


----------



## sedurbin

I traded a JD 336 for a NH 315 and am happy as I can be. Good example of why, new Knotter for JD is over $1,000 and a new one for the NH about $500 and there are a lot less pieces for the NH Knotter (no where near as many shims) The 315 will also eat a lot more hay than the 336, it's kind of like an old porn star, can take a lot down it's throat before it chokes.


----------



## NDVA HAYMAN

Never heard a baler compared to a porn star LOL. Good one Sedurbin. I run a 5070 and love it. Have always had New Holland. I still have a 315 and a 320 as backups but they just sit in the barn. The 315's are great balers and you can't go wrong. I don't know a thing about JD balers. NH are easy to work on and parts are readily available. The reason for the banana bales are light hay and light windrows. All you do is put more hay in the windrow and make less passes pulling your baler up and down the windrow. Mike P.S. Speed can also be a factor.


----------



## Cannon

I can help with your knotter problem, your knotter stack load is not tight enough. When you unpin your knotter, lift it up and let go does it just fall? If so you need to increase the stack load (putting the drive gear in tighter contact with the driven gears on your knotters). If it has a adjuster on your main drive shaft and it is wired tight, you need to un wire it and adjust it tighter. If your baler has shims then you need to make the appropriate adjustment. This should help your gear problems.


----------



## freedomfarm

Thanks for the input . . . will take all I can get. Cannon . . . Yes the knotter will flop down easily. The other side acted up 2 years ago, put new small gears on and it seems to be okay. The problem with the shims is you can't seem to get them tight enough. It's as tight as 2 guys can get it, just enough to get a heavy cotter pin in. When things go bad it'll push that pin and bend the shims and force the bill hook out of time and then things will go downhill fast. When I get the replacement knotter I'll go through everything again and see if I can get them as tight as you described. Considering the JD 338, but like the looks of NH knotters eliminating the problems I've had with the JD . . .


----------



## PaCustomBaling

A JD 336 is a great baler, but I've also heard 315's are great balers as well. As far as parts though and relatively cheap fixes, then I would go with NEW HOLLAND! JD parts are just too much. We still have a 348 but anymore just use a 5070 and parts are almost always available. Seems like the only thing the JD dealer would have were pickup teeth and that's it!


----------



## hay wilson in TX

Personal prejudice on my part say go NH. 
I much prefer the more positive cross feed of the NH over the auger. I also prefer individual grease fittings on the tying mechanism.

I prefer the 315-316-320 series balers for the easier to make bale length adjustments. (Weld a short bar to the set screw and we do not need a wrench in hand to make adjustments.

There are a truck load of operator induced sins that result in banana shape and irregular bale length. It starts with stand establishment and fertility management. 
An obvious problem is the rake operator is not paying attention to business. The most important part of putting up a good bale is having good even windrows with adequate hay for the baler type and size. 
I know a custom man who will not bale a field that his WIFE has not raked. The only exception is if he himself has raked the field.

When it comes to the baler operator, he needs to match the forward speed of the tractor to the size of the windrow. You do this by counting strokes per bale. Ideally 15 strokes per bale. 
There should be a nice even charge size of hay gong into the bale chamber to have even hay from side to side and to fill the chamber to the top. Failure to attend to business here results in irregular lengths and or odd shaped bales. A daughter can be your first choice, a Wet Back should be your last choice.

The baler operator should count the strokes per bale, watch for when the bale falls off the bale chute, listen to the slip clutch, stay on the windrow, and I suggest keep an eye on a *On The Go Moisture Tester*.

It may hurt some peoples feelings, but *NO* entertainment allowed on a tractor. Radios, or personal communication or entertainment contribute to bale quality problems, A lack of maturity of an over supply of hormones does not help, ether.

A Small Square Baler simply will not wear out, if treated with respect. They will last as long as you can still obtain parts, reasonably. *RUST will destroy a baler*.


----------



## dennis

make sure you use the jd cotterpins in your knotter stack-after market pins are too soft.


----------



## freedomfarm

Thanks Dennis, I sort of kind of thought about that, but didn't do it . . . will order JD cotter pins asap. Hay Wilson in TX, thanks for the reminders . . .I do all the cutting, raking, baling and will let the wife rake when needed. My JD's always give me consitant bales no matter how thick or thin the windrow or how fast or slow you go. My windrows are pretty consistant but I do get variations in second cut but try to gather enough for a decent row to bale. The two neighbors who have the NH's that complain about bananas and length variations, one has a 276 and flys, the other has a 273 and and goes about twice as fast as me. I wondered about their speed. Of course I look like a little old lady headed to church when using my smaller JD. I am really considering the NH 315/316 or maybe even a 320 for the right price. I'll repair my 24T for a just in case baler or for the wife to use if we want to double up. Thanks for the input, I appreciate all of it.


----------



## lewbest

freedomfarm said:


> <<snip>>The two neighbors who have the NH's that complain about bananas and length variations, one has a 276 and flys, the other has a 273 and and goes about twice as fast as me. I wondered about their speed. Of course I look like a little old lady headed to church when using my smaller JD. <<snip>>


FWIW my old balers are a similar vintage to yours (214ws JD, IH 47 & an IH 46 that's awaiting a set of needles) but I feel with this old equipment it's far less prone to give problems running slow. I generally run at a tractor rpm of 1000-1200; one calls for 1800 to get 540 pto speed; pther one iirc calls for 1950 rpm. I do just bale a small acreage for my own use tho so no reason to get in a big hurry

Lew


----------



## Cannon

Freedomfarm) From what you have told me , replace the gears for the bill hook and twine dick drive. I am sure you will find a wear spot on the drive face of the gear. This is the first point of contact with the main drive gear that starts turning the knotter gears. This will help the jumping. I will warn you of danger -- I have seen jumped bill hook gears pop the main drive gear hub. That is a OH SHIT moment, you have to pull the whole knotter stack and disassemble it to replace the main drive hub. NOT FUN! That is why you don't want to be jumping the gears. Trust me.


----------



## freedomfarm

I finally decided on a "new to me" baler. I went NH Holland this time after having a JD 14T and then a JD 24T for the last 15 years. WOW. My NH 315 (most baler I could buy for the $) is impressive and has much more capacity compared to the smaller JD's. Actually, I think I could bale up my old JD with this one. WOW. I think I really like this baler. I did a small patch of clover (3 acres) last night. Not used to not being able to see the bales come out or the knotters, Heck can't even hear the knotters . . . just a small tap sound when the knotters cycle. I was reluctant, but I'm really glad this time I went NH. Feeding system is pretty nice and seems to do well with treefoil and red clover, didn't beat the heck out of it and most of the leaves ended up in the bale. I hope this will be a good long relationship with this baler.


----------



## Robin Craig

Lacking years of baling experience, but having done research up the ying yang and also considered service availability locally and parts we chose the NH 575. It is a solid reliable machine with easy adjustments to correct curving left or right, easy bale length adjustment and easy adjustment of the density of the bales. We have gotten rid of the acid applicator as we need to learn how to make dry hay before we can try the alchemy of making wet bales that will dry.

The only caveat is the NH 575 is wholly unsuited as a firewood procesor and will fail in spectacular fashion in a heartbelt and will lighten your wallet as a result.

R


----------



## sedurbin

The 315 is rated a 90 spm max, but only runs at 79 spm at 540 pto. Calculate your tractor rpm and run the baler up to the max strokes per minute. Mine seems to like the higher spm in heaver hay, the extra momentum helps the knives cut. Another thing to watch is the feeder chain, keep it tightened to the spec and it will preform great. The 315 bale case is longer than a lot of balers and I believe that really helps with forming a better bale. I hope I never have to go back to a JD baler


----------



## NDVA HAYMAN

Freedomfarm, If you should happen to need any parts for your 315, let me know. I have one pulled to the side that I may part out. Just haven't decided yet if I will do that. Mike


----------



## freedomfarm

Thanks Mike, I just ordered a handful of small stuff it needed, nothing major. If it gets me through second cut okay it may get a paint job. I need to look at my left axle stub and see how I can correct the play, the wheel runs a bit tilted, but I haven't pulled it apart yet to see what I need to do to straighten it up or If I need any parts there. Tickridge Ranch, I'll try to run her up a bit closer to 540. . . after years with old worn balers I am accustomed to taking it a bit easy! I was feeding it a bit much at first, only nine strokes per bale, then changed gears and and got it around 17-18. I need a third range in this tractor . . . oh well. Robin, I was impressed with the bale shape as it was how I got it. I do like all the adjustments that can be made to modify the bale shape. First thing I ordered was an op's manual and went over the baler with it in hand.


----------



## sedurbin

Running any square baler slow is not necessarily easier on the baler(the machine), it may be easier on the baler's nerves (the guy running it) but the lack of momentum makes everything in the machine work harder.


----------



## jdhayboy

hay wilson knows whats up!! The Rake Man plays a huge role in how a sq bale is made. Also as he stated count your strokes per bale, you can hear the knotter trip and tie, i always crack the back window so i can hear whats goin on. By the way we run 2 JD 348's. In my experience, when we bale different types of grasses (tifton 85, Jiggs, Coastal) i have to sometimes adjust the length of my bales. And the JD's seem to bust to many bales. I have some neighbors that run NH and never have to adjust length or have any bale busting problems.


----------



## Edster

freedomfarm said:


> \ I need to look at my left axle stub and see how I can correct the play, the wheel runs a bit tilted, but I haven't pulled it apart yet to see what I need to do to straighten it up or If I need any parts there.


Not sure if this is a trait of the 315 or not. The left wheel on mine is tilted too. The axle stub is held in by one bolt. This plus the fact that it is the heavy side could be the cause.


----------



## freedomfarm

Axle tilt . . . Since we got 1 & 4/10ths of rain last night I figure I had some time to look at my 315 again. The hole in the frame was slightly wallowed, axle hole looked good. The bolt was worn enough, so I replaced it, last owner stuck in a 7/16ths bolt. I put a 1/2" bolt in and she tightened up real nice and straight.


----------



## baddog201

I run a jd348 i demoed a nh5070 and couldnt bale as fast and when people have problems busting bales is usally from to heavy of a bale for the twine you are using. I run 170 knot strenght twine and have never broke a bale and I have baled 20,000 squares for myself and 15,000 custom i run alot of hay thru my equipment and i bought the deere over the new holland and i could go faster with the deere i bale 2 windrows out of a jd946 moco and run 5 to 7 mph with the 348 it eats hay


----------



## mlappin

Edster said:


> Not sure if this is a trait of the 315 or not. The left wheel on mine is tilted too. The axle stub is held in by one bolt. This plus the fact that it is the heavy side could be the cause.


Our 276 did the same thing, like freedomfarm pointed out the plate on the end of the axle gets wallowed out then the stub isn't true to the axle. We took a 1/2 plate, bored a hole in it slightly larger than the stub, then welded it on the end of the axle tube. Not something that has to be fixed _now_ but does lead to tire wear on the inside.


----------

