# Alfalfa - How Many Days from Cutting to Baling?



## Hugh

I'm curious, and this is a "poll" of sorts. How many days go by from cutting to baling alfalfa? Do you use a mower/conditioner? sickle bar, disc mower, do you ted etc. How mature is the crop etc?

I cut a 24" crop (no bloom) 5 days ago with a disc mower, raked it into windrows after two days, and it looks like I'm going to be 7-8 days total from cut to bale. This seems too long to me. We have had 90F and low humidities. 7-8 days, is this common?


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## Vol

Hugh, I mow mine and leave it in the mower/conditioner windrow for at least 3 days....sometimes 4.....then the morning of the day I bale it, I ted it out....let dry some more and rake and bale that afternoon early....and put some preservative on it if necessary.....sometimes it is not necessary....like this time of year.

Regards, Mike


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## hog987

Everything this year I have baled with 50 hours after cutting. But than again till 2 weeks ago we were in a severe drought.


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## Bishop

I cut 7 acres of 2nd cut alfalfa/brome/clover/timothy on Monday this week. Tedded it out 3 hours after baling.

Got 1/2" of rain on it Tuesday PM. Tedded it again once the top was dry on Wednesday morning. Let it dry rest of the day.

Let it sit today.

Friday I will rake it into windrows that are almost touching each other. Let it dry all day. Supposed to be low humidity and some breeze.

Saturday morning when the dew is just coming off I'll rake the two windrows together.

Later that same day my son will be "tipping" it with the rake starting about an hour before I start baling. Sometimes I lose some leaves, but I think the bottom of the windrow will be a bit tough from the ground moisture.

I'll bale starting around 3pm Saturday with acid. Hoping the moisture is below 20%.


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## Teslan

With good drying weather, which to me is temps in the 90s and humidity in the high teens I could expect to be baling the night of the 3rd day or morning of the 4th day. Though it differs between the cuttings.


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## Hawk40

Teslan said:


> With good drying weather, which to me is temps in the 90s and humidity in the high teens I could expect to be baling the night of the 3rd day or morning of the 4th day. Though it differs between the cuttings.


X2 in north Idaho 
I lost a bet for a six pack when first cutting was ready by the late afternoon on the third day.
We had raked the afternoon of day 2.


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## NebTrac

Teslan said:


> With good drying weather, which to me is temps in the 90s and humidity in the high teens I could expect to be baling the night of the 3rd day or morning of the 4th day. Though it differs between the cuttings.


Exactly the same thing here. Though with the humidity this year, I'm done with night baling unless there is a good breeze. The baling is better between 9am to 11am then it is for the 15 minutes at night.

I use a 9240 sickle with double conditioner and lay the windrow out about 8 feet or so. Cut right after lunch, rake 3rd morning and bale the next morning. Seems to me its all about conditions anyway...condition (maturity) of hay, condition of weather and condition on equipment...lastly mental condition of person wondering why he's addicted to haying.

Troy


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## vhaby

It depends.

In early spring (here) I need to see a 5-day window with no rain in the forecast before I dare to cut, and even then I might have to race a storm to get the bales into the barn, sometimes still on the trailer.

In August, we usually have many days with hot temperatures and no rain, plus high humidity. I cut Wednesday late morning and will rake early Friday morning and bale when the windrow humidity hits about 65%. I expect this to occur about 10 AM. This evening (Thursday) the epidermis (stem skin) didn't scrape off and the color was light green, but nowhere like what Hawk showed in a previous post.


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## swmnhay

Hugh said:


> I'm curious, and this is a "poll" of sorts. How many days go by from cutting to baling alfalfa? Do you use a mower/conditioner? sickle bar, disc mower, do you ted etc. How mature is the crop etc?
> 
> I cut a 24" crop (no bloom) 5 days ago with a disc mower, raked it into windrows after two days, and it looks like I'm going to be 7-8 days total from cut to bale. This seems too long to me. We have had 90F and low humidities. 7-8 days, is this common?


i hope for 4 days but have baled in 1 day and as long as 21.the 21 day had snow on it and was still pretty decent hay.I try to cut at 1/10 th bloom it dries better then bud stage hay,I give up a little protein but get more tonnage and it dries better the more mature it is.I cut with a Vermeer M/C.Hopefully V rakeing day 3 and baleing day 4 with a dew.Thats the plan anyway but plans always change.

If you hay is still wet now it shouldn't of been raked together so soon.You should of let it get drier and then raked with a dew.


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## mlappin

I mow after the dew is off in the morning, using Super C conditioning rollers, ted the next morning with dew still on and can usually rake that afternoon about 3pm and bale by 6pm. With humidity thats pretty high this year from all the previous rain and moist ground conditions I've had to let some go four days to get it dry.


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## haystax

I can't hardly believe that you guys can get away with such short drying times. Is the hay basically dry standing when you cut? What tonnage are we talking? Stem moisture when baling?

On irrigated ground here in the desert I am at least 6-8 cut to baled. We can get grass up in 4-5 days usually. Never bale with stem moisture unless it's an emergency salvage type deal to beat a storm. Only have acid applicator on one big baler. Small bales NEVER get baled with stem moisture.


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## Teslan

Haystax are you talking all cuttings take 6-8 days or just first. Also how big are your swaths? I would say that if I cut heavy first cutting and didn't spread out the swaths very far it might take 6 days for 1st cutting. But anymore I spread them out and am doing a 15 foot swath. 4th cutting can take 10 days or more if the days don't get very warm. But 2nd and 3rd is usually 4 days or so.


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## hay wilson in TX

Every climate is different, and each climate is different for each cutting.

In the 1950's I got to mow early in the morning, rake as soon as I could hook up the rakes, and baled a few hours after dark, during the same 24 hour period.

In the 1980's I cut the hay and baled it slightly damp 14 days later, and no rain during that month.

I have a shelf full of California Alfalfa Symposiums as well as a fair collection of Kentucky Alfalfa Proceedings.

I have attended maybe 20 AFGC conferences and have even more copies of their Proceedings.
I have attended probably 5 California Alfalfa Conferences and have maybe 20 years worth of their Proceedings.

I learned a lot over the years. Then 10 years ago I found a publication from WV that put it all together.

Forage Management
Ed Rayburn, Extension Forage Agronomist January 2002
PROPER HANDLING AND CURING OF HAY
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf

This put everything into perspective.

WV has some other publications that fill in some blanks.

Fooling around I found the Extension Publication from Cornell U.
This has a chart that tells us how long will it require to have hay dry down to 20% moisture.

Silage and Hay Preservation
By R.E. Pitt
Chapter 2 is all about hay.
Figure 2 demonstrates time to cure from 80% to 20% moisture.
I had to convert from metric to English inches, and enlarge the chart and expand the chart.
It needs your estimated yield, your estimated Pan Evaporatin & the percentage of the ground covered by the hay.
(It is a gold mine)

Table 21 has losses during harvesting.
Table 22 has the time to cure from 80% to 20% on wet and dry ground.

Cost was about $15 with postage.
Cornell University
Department of Ag & Bio Engineering
Natural Resource, Agriculture, and Engineering Services (NRAES)
ISBN 0-935817-47-6
152 Riley-Robb Hall
Cooperative Extension
Ithaca, NY 14853
607/255-7654
Fax 607/2548770
[email protected]

Hope the addresses are still good and the publication is still available.

Bill Wilson
Little River,Tx
[email protected]


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## Hugh

haystax said:


> I can't hardly believe that you guys can get away with such short drying times. Is the hay basically dry standing when you cut? What tonnage are we talking? Stem moisture when baling?
> 
> On irrigated ground here in the desert I am at least 6-8 cut to baled. We can get grass up in 4-5 days usually. Never bale with stem moisture unless it's an emergency salvage type deal to beat a storm. Only have acid applicator on one big baler. Small bales NEVER get baled with stem moisture.


10-4 on that. I can't bale shorter than 4-5 days with 95 -105 temps, 10% humidity with a mild breeze. I do not condition, but cut with a disc mower and leave it wide. Scratching my head in Montana...


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## panhandle9400

haystax said:


> I can't hardly believe that you guys can get away with such short drying times. Is the hay basically dry standing when you cut? What tonnage are we talking? Stem moisture when baling?
> 
> On irrigated ground here in the desert I am at least 6-8 cut to baled. We can get grass up in 4-5 days usually.


 Same here , then it rains on it ! Amazing switch for us . I am all irrigated here and make my windrows medium width but flat as a pancake, due to we can get wind . What is your elevations ? Here it goes from 3900 to 4500 .


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## Vol

Do you think that you fellas that irrigate might be affected by such(drying time) compared to others that grow dryland alfalfa?

Regards, Mike


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## panhandle9400

Mike there is no dryland alfalfa anywhere near here , I would guess irrigated will be a heavier cutting , due to plant population alone, keep the ground shady better an longer .Thus ground would be wetter longer . I have NEVER seen such a season like this HERE . Go from no rain to 12 to 15 inches in may then june have another 6 to 8 , then last week we had from 2.50 to 4 .I may lose some due to heavy rains the last few weeks , re-growth is already a foot tall . Good thing I run disc heads huh .....................Beats the dirt blowing anyday. I can really MEAN that cause I am dust bowl tough .


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## Teslan

Yes dry land alfalfa doesn't exist here either. We try and shut off irrigation at least a week and a half before cutting. However first cutting it wasn't shut off as it was rain. So it took longer to dry. Actually my first cutting wasn't good at all but I sold it for $90ton.


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## FarmerCline

This is only my 2nd year with alfalfa so I'm still figuring out the best way to cure it here. Here with good drying conditions in the summer months most of the time I need 3 days to dry the alfalfa to stem snapping dry and then bale on day 4 with dew to preserve leaves. This is conditioning with rubber rolls. I have quit tedding my alfalfa most of the time because it causes it to bleach very badly with more of it exposed to the sun and dew. I could get it to dry a day quicker if I tedded but the hay would have poor color so unless the weather window is pushing me I don't Ted. Typically the afternoon of the third day the alfalfa is mostly stem snapping dry but I dare not to touch it because all of the leaves would fall off......that means I have to wait until that night to rake or the following morning. Trouble is when I rake I usually pull up a few green lumps where I have driven over the hay on the corners and I have to let it lay until late evening of the fourth day to dry the green lumps out and bale with dew. That exposes the hay to another full day of possibly being rained on and ruining it but I guess that's a risk I take to get good color and leaf retention.

This past week I tried something new and raked on the morning of the third day with some dew to preserve leaves with the hope that the green lumps would cure out that day and I could bale that night. A lot of the stems still had a little moisture though when raking and almost didn't dry in the windrow......if it had not have been 98 and humidity in the 30s I'm sure it would not have dried enough to bale that night.


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## Gearclash

If we would cut alfalfa on Monday we would be looking to rake on Thursday morning and bale the same afternoon. When exactly would depend on the humidity forecast and moisture level of the hay. It is assumed there will be some stem moisture. Results vary. Grass is typically one day less. Trying to get alfalfa dry without conditioning is hopeless here, grass is somewhat easier but I still much rather see it get conditioned.


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## Hugh

I'm trying to figure how you East Coast guys can cut and bale in 3 days when, out here, in the West, with humidity in the area of 10-15 percent, temps going to 90F most days and 105F on others, and more - the wind is nearly always going, we need 5-8 days. We do have a guy down the road from us who brags he hasn't fertilized in 8 years and he cuts and bales in 3 days simply because his alfalfa plants are about 3-4 feet apart and I'm guessing he gets 200-300 pounds per acre per cut. With alfalfa that thin it ought to be dry before it hits the ground.

I grew up in Florida and I know that if you have wet clothes or a wet towel, it takes a long time to dry it out. Here, on a hot summer day, you can wring-out a tee shirt, toss it on the hood of your pick-up truck and it will be stiff dry in twenty minutes.


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## Vol

Hugh said:


> I'm trying to figure how you East Coast guys can cut and bale in 3 days when, out here, in the West, with humidity in the area of 10-15 percent, temps going to 90F most days and 105F on others, and more - the wind is nearly always going, we need 5-8 days. We do have a guy down the road from us who brags he hasn't fertilized in 8 years and he cuts and bales in 3 days simply because his alfalfa plants are about 3-4 feet apart and I'm guessing he gets 200-300 pounds per acre per cut. With alfalfa that thin it ought to be dry before it hits the ground.
> 
> I grew up in Florida and I know that if you have wet clothes or a wet towel, it takes a long time to dry it out. Here, on a hot summer day, you can wring-out a tee shirt, toss it on the hood of your pick-up truck and it will be stiff dry in twenty minutes.


Probably one large item to consider is that almost all folks in this part of the country use a tedder.....and that is very uncommon in your area.....it almost always will save you at least one full day of drying time....and possibly more.

I also have noticed in the West that many folks will mow with a tight windrow.....again, here in this part of the country a widely spread windrow is the norm.

You add these two items together and it adds up to a significant amount of time....time must be reduced here due to the ever present threat of rain......here rainfall total averages between 50"-60" annually versus rainfall in your part of the country where it frequently averages less than 20". So one does what they can to improve drying times.

If I mowed alfalfa in a tight windrow and did not ted it out....and baled the windrow like it was mowed, I doubt if I could bale it in 8-9 days.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

Vol said:


> Probably one large item to consider is that almost all folks in this part of the country use a tedder.....and that is very uncommon in your area.....it almost always will save you at least one full day of drying time....and possibly more.
> 
> I also have noticed in the West that many folks will mow with a tight windrow.....again, here in this part of the country a widely spread windrow is the norm.
> 
> You add these two items together and it adds up to a significant amount of time....time must be reduced here due to the ever present threat of rain......here rainfall total averages between 50"-60" annually versus rainfall in your part of the country where it frequently averages less than 20". So one does what they can to improve drying times.
> 
> If I mowed alfalfa in a tight windrow and did not ted it out....and baled the windrow like it was mowed, I doubt if I could bale it in 8-9 days.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I tried the tedder. It saved 0 days and I ended up with alfalfa that was bleached more then it should have been and had more leaf shatter. Not from the tedding, but I think the extra handling even though it was wet weakened the leaves so when I did bale they came off easier. I thought it would save at least a day also. I cut the hay in the afternoon one day. I tedded early the next morning. I expected it to be ready the following days night. Nope. Same moisture in the stems as the hay I did not ted. The next evening both were ready to go, but of course I had to wait until the next morning to rake with dew. Maybe it just happened that way as we got some really dry days and warm winds. Maybe also I should have cut the alfalfa in the morning and tedded right afterwards, which is how I've found it's best for grass hay. I also have taken up the practice of spreading out my windrow nearly as far as it goes.

My experiment also took place on 2nd cutting hay. Maybe 1st cutting where it is much heavier would have been different. I did ted my first cutting as well, but it had had lots of rain on it so that isn't a good test.

I will not be using the tedder on 3rd cutting.


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## Teslan

Hugh said:


> I'm trying to figure how you East Coast guys can cut and bale in 3 days when, out here, in the West, with humidity in the area of 10-15 percent, temps going to 90F most days and 105F on others, and more - the wind is nearly always going, we need 5-8 days. We do have a guy down the road from us who brags he hasn't fertilized in 8 years and he cuts and bales in 3 days simply because his alfalfa plants are about 3-4 feet apart and I'm guessing he gets 200-300 pounds per acre per cut. With alfalfa that thin it ought to be dry before it hits the ground.
> 
> I grew up in Florida and I know that if you have wet clothes or a wet towel, it takes a long time to dry it out. Here, on a hot summer day, you can wring-out a tee shirt, toss it on the hood of your pick-up truck and it will be stiff dry in twenty minutes.


I've been trying to figure out that as long as I've been on this forum Hugh. They can do the same with grass hay. Sometimes these guys describing how quick they can bale makes me wonder what I'm doing messing around with all this irrigation.


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## hay wilson in TX

The growers in the Arid West can not drop their hay in a nice wide swath as their humidity never is high enough to rake day or night without excessive leaf shatter.
When the AF had me stationed at Roswell, NM my kids were still in diapers. My wife would wash a load of diapers and hang them out on a clothes line.
By the time she had them all hung up the first ones were dry enough to take down.

Hay on the first day of curing the holes in the leaves will be open, unless the hay is in a good sized dark windrow. In that case the holes in the leaves close and THEN our nearest opening for water to escape is the abrasions in the stems from mowing and conditioning.

A temperature difference, plus a air moisture difference, and air movement will all aid in drying.
Hay that is exposed to the DIRECT sun shine the moisture will be heated, increase the vapor pressure, and drive the steam out the nearest opening.

The Cornel publication has two charts that shows the rate of drying over dry soil, with low humidity and temperature. Yes it does take longer to cure in damp conditions, but it is a lot longer for a windrow than for a wide swath with and without soil moisture.

So yes it does require 5 days to cure a larger yield and a tight windrow.

Operator technique does play a large part in all climates. Individual management style will make a difference.

It has been my observation that hay color can be greener with the Arid West, compared to the Humid East using atmospheric drying. Just remember there are growers in the west who inject water into a windrow before baling.
One grower in Idaho with a large operation has the Pivots running on all sides of the field that is being baled.
Some use acid to prevent mold because they have to bale before the hay is fully cured.

DR. Al Rotz has documented that the least cost to harvest hay is when the hay is dropped in a windrow and baled from that windrow. It cost money to pull a tedder, and it cost money to pull a rake, let alone the value of the hay lost to leaf shattering.


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## 8350HiTech

Hugh said:


> I'm trying to figure how you East Coast guys can cut and bale in 3 days when, out here, in the West, with humidity in the area of 10-15 percent, temps going to 90F most days and 105F on others, and more - the wind is nearly always going, we need 5-8 days. We do have a guy down the road from us who brags he hasn't fertilized in 8 years and he cuts and bales in 3 days simply because his alfalfa plants are about 3-4 feet apart and I'm guessing he gets 200-300 pounds per acre per cut. With alfalfa that thin it ought to be dry before it hits the ground.
> 
> I grew up in Florida and I know that if you have wet clothes or a wet towel, it takes a long time to dry it out. Here, on a hot summer day, you can wring-out a tee shirt, toss it on the hood of your pick-up truck and it will be stiff dry in twenty minutes.


Most simply put, hay drying is an active process in the east and a passive process in the west. If we want it dry, we'll get it dry.


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## siscofarms

Here in western ky . Not very often , and we're talking 3rd and 4th cutting PURE alfalfa but I have cut in the evening , ted in the morning , and be bailing within 24 hrs . Mostly its a 36hr thing and if theres any grass at all in it that'll slow the process down also.


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## Teslan

hay wilson in TX said:


> The growers in the Arid West can not drop their hay in a nice wide swath as their humidity never is high enough to rake day or night without excessive leaf shatter.
> When the AF had me stationed at Roswell, NM my kids were still in diapers. My wife would wash a load of diapers and hang them out on a clothes line.
> By the time she had them all hung up the first ones were dry enough to take down.
> 
> Hay on the first day of curing the holes in the leaves will be open, unless the hay is in a good sized dark windrow. In that case the holes in the leaves close and THEN our nearest opening for water to escape is the abrasions in the stems from mowing and conditioning.
> 
> A temperature difference, plus a air moisture difference, and air movement will all aid in drying.
> Hay that is exposed to the DIRECT sun shine the moisture will be heated, increase the vapor pressure, and drive the steam out the nearest opening.
> 
> The Cornel publication has two charts that shows the rate of drying over dry soil, with low humidity and temperature. Yes it does take longer to cure in damp conditions, but it is a lot longer for a windrow than for a wide swath with and without soil moisture.
> 
> So yes it does require 5 days to cure a larger yield and a tight windrow.
> 
> Operator technique does play a large part in all climates. Individual management style will make a difference.
> 
> It has been my observation that hay color can be greener with the Arid West, compared to the Humid East using atmospheric drying. Just remember there are growers in the west who inject water into a windrow before baling.
> One grower in Idaho with a large operation has the Pivots running on all sides of the field that is being baled.
> Some use acid to prevent mold because they have to bale before the hay is fully cured.
> 
> DR. Al Rotz has documented that the least cost to harvest hay is when the hay is dropped in a windrow and baled from that windrow. It cost money to pull a tedder, and it cost money to pull a rake, let alone the value of the hay lost to leaf shattering.


If baling small squares in the arid west there is no need to rake. I only rake to put two windrows together for the big square baler. Not for any drying help. In fact if you rake two windrows together before it's cured you will add a day or two to the process. And I rake when it's wet with dew and rarely lose leaves. But a couple years ago I had to wait a couple days to get enough dew to rake or bale. That's rare though. If it is to dry to rake it's going to be to dry to bale. We used to windrow with narrow windrows as you noted, but recently have spread it out to about 6 feet wide or so. It dries faster by about a day then when it was a tighter windrow. I feel a big square especially the 3x4s and 4x4s will lose less leaves then a small square baler when baling alfalfa. Especially a NH or JD small square baler where the alfalfa is moved around more to get into the chamber. A 3x3 baler unless the windrows are 3 feet wide will thrash the outsides of the windrow if one tries to bale to fast due to the little augers. The same thing can happen with an small square inline baler. Although a small square inline baler can bale dryer alfalfa then a NH or JD and have less leaf loss. It also helps to shut off irrigation a week or even 2 before cutting. One of the problems on a couple fields I bale alfalfa is that we are in a kind of draw. The dew comes in faster in the bottom of the draw then on the top. And I bale a field that is a pivot. So a problem is the part of the circle that is in the bottom of the draw will be wetter then the top. So to find the perfect moisture to bale in that field is very hard.


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## Teslan

siscofarms said:


> Here in western ky . Not very often , and we're talking 3rd and 4th cutting PURE alfalfa but I have cut in the evening , ted in the morning , and be bailing within 24 hrs . Mostly its a 36hr thing and if theres any grass at all in it that'll slow the process down also.


Interesting. It always takes alfalfa longer to cure then grass here. Due to the stems holding moisture longer. It's why I dislike baling grass alfalfa mix. There are other reasons I don't like mix also.


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> Interesting. It always takes alfalfa longer to cure then grass here. Due to the stems holding moisture longer. It's why I dislike baling grass alfalfa mix. There are other reasons I don't like mix also.


I find here that grass helps alfalfa dry faster.

Regards, Mike


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## Vol

Teslan said:


> I tried the tedder. It saved 0 days and I ended up with alfalfa that was bleached more then it should have been and had more leaf shatter.


I think you should experiment more as a tedder will help forage dry faster. In alfalfa or grass, I always bale the same day I ted to avoid bleaching. I think you might need to leave it windrowed longer..... I leave mine windrowed 3 days and sometimes 4 before I ted mine early....then rake and bale that afternoon or evening if it gets too dry.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

Vol said:


> I think you should experiment more as a tedder will help forage dry faster. In alfalfa or grass, I always bale the same day I ted to avoid bleaching. I think you might need to leave it windowed longer..... I leave mine windowed 3 days and sometimes 4 before I ted mine early....then rake and bale that afternoon or evening if it gets too dry.
> 
> Regards, Mike


No way could I Ted the same day as raking and baling here. If it was sorta dry I would have to ted when it was wet with dew to not lose leaves. So that means I would have to wait to rake the next morning with dew because by the time the tedding would do any good it's way to dry to rake never mind bale. Also with my width of swather at 15 feet and a windrow of 7-8 feet. the Tedder won't spread good if the hay (grass or alfalfa) is even somewhat to dry to ted and spread well by as little as 3 hours after cutting. this is based on trying tedding with a NH and Kuhn 6 basket Tedder. Both tedded the same. I think the tedding loses its value with alfalfa is that day I have wait between tedding and raking with dew. Remember here dew sometimes doesn't show up until right before sunrise.


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## hog987

We had some guys this year with the drought that were baling 3-4 hours after cutting. The hay was just burning up standing in the field.


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## Gearclash

With Teslan I have found that "stirring" alfalfa here is almost always useless. There are rare instances were it would help. Grass is another matter altogether. Fluffing almost always helps if the crop is heavy. We lay a 7-8 foot windrow behind a 14 foot sickle.


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## Hugh

siscofarms said:


> Here in western ky . Not very often , and we're talking 3rd and 4th cutting PURE alfalfa but I have cut in the evening , ted in the morning , and be bailing within 24 hrs . Mostly its a 36hr thing and if theres any grass at all in it that'll slow the process down also.


The only common thing I can find here is that high humidity must make alfalfa dry faster, or maybe on the East coast the alfalfa is thinner. Another factor is that out here, at 3500 ft elevation, the night time temps are very cool. We normally loose 35-50 degrees every night. This may slow respiration in the plant tissue and slow drying. Yesterday morning the low was 40F. Another factor may be that we have a very, very dense stand of roundup ready alfalfa. The cuts are 1.5 - 2 tons per acre, with no buds or bloom, more if we let it get towards bud-bloom. I'm guessing 3 tons per acre per cut if we let it go to 40% bloom.


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## hay wilson in TX

The field I baled this morning will be interesting. It was the first time I had a dry day to mow and then it just quit raining. So in each bale is old dry hay that has gone to seed. Some was newer hay that had green seed pods. Had some in heavy bloom and some in bud stage. All mixed together in the same windrow.

Averaged baling at 2.5 mph, with 14 strokes per bale. Ended up with 100 small bales/Acre.

I wonder how the hay will test? ! Hope something better than Grinding Hay.

Glad I lay the hay out like it would bale close to 3 tons/A. My rule of thumb guessed it would be about 3/4 tons/A.

Had a first time for me. We bale with wire tie, here and had a broken wire when had an "E" try to squeeze thou the small slots.

Will not get all the bales picked up & in the barn using my NH 1003 Stacker.
Probably will average 100 bales/hour.

Told my wife to inform the Preacher the Ox is in the Ditch, Sunday at Church.


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## Vol

Hugh said:


> The only common thing I can find here is that high humidity must make alfalfa dry faster, or maybe on the East coast the alfalfa is thinner. Another factor is that out here, at 3500 ft elevation, the night time temps are very cool. We normally loose 35-50 degrees every night. This may slow respiration in the plant tissue and slow drying. Yesterday morning the low was 40F. Another factor may be that we have a very, very dense stand of roundup ready alfalfa. The cuts are 1.5 - 2 tons per acre,


My RR alfalfa yield is about like yours....the low here yesterday morning was 70°....you might be onto something about your lows and dry down.

Regards, Mike


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## cdhayman

haystax said:


> I can't hardly believe that you guys can get away with such short drying times. Is the hay basically dry standing when you cut? What tonnage are we talking? Stem moisture when baling?
> On irrigated ground here in the desert I am at least 6-8 cut to baled. We can get grass up in 4-5 days usually. Never bale with stem moisture unless it's an emergency salvage type deal to beat a storm. Only have acid applicator on one big baler. Small bales NEVER get baled with stem moisture.


I'm surprised that it takes that long in a dry area like yours. Yesterday I baled up 180 acres of alfalfa that did between 2.25 and 2.5 ton/acre. It was slightly bloomed which helps, but that was done in 4 days. I think it all depends on conditioning type and swath width.


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## Hugh

Another factor that may effect the equation is that in low humidity and high temps, plants will develop thickened cell walls, which are more resistant to water loss during the growth period, and therefore more resistant to drying after cutting. With alfalfa, could be that the stems here out west grow harder/thicker (defense mechanism) than back east.


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## Teslan

cdhayman said:


> I'm surprised that it takes that long in a dry area like yours. Yesterday I baled up 180 acres of alfalfa that did between 2.25 and 2.5 ton/acre. It was slightly bloomed which helps, but that was done in 4 days. I think it all depends on conditioning type and swath width.


Yes that's about what it takes here. We have a double conditioner on our swather and I believe it dries a few hours faster then our old one which had just a single conditioner.


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## Bishop

Bishop said:


> I cut 7 acres of 2nd cut alfalfa/brome/clover/timothy on Monday this week. Tedded it out 3 hours after baling.
> 
> Got 1/2" of rain on it Tuesday PM. Tedded it again once the top was dry on Wednesday morning. Let it dry rest of the day.
> 
> Let it sit today.
> 
> Friday I will rake it into windrows that are almost touching each other. Let it dry all day. Supposed to be low humidity and some breeze.
> 
> Saturday morning when the dew is just coming off I'll rake the two windrows together.
> 
> Later that same day my son will be "tipping" it with the rake starting about an hour before I start baling. Sometimes I lose some leaves, but I think the bottom of the windrow will be a bit tough from the ground moisture.
> 
> I'll bale starting around 3pm Saturday with acid. Hoping the moisture is below 20%.


And then sometimes things don't go as planned. Supposed to be a beautiful sunny day, wake up to clouds. They stayed until 2:00pm.

We raked the prepped rows APART instead of together at 11:00AM

Tipped them at 2:30 once the sun was out.

Starting baling at 3:00 with lots of acid (first 10 bales came out at 23%).

Moisture dropped throughout next couple hours.

Put up 400 small squares.


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## swmnhay

Vol said:


> I find here that grass helps alfalfa dry faster.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Same here,I'd say a day faster with a mix vs straight alf.


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## hay wilson in TX

A big advantage for some Western forage growers.
The Idaho Forage Specialist, Glen Shewmaker, informed me that the nights in Idaho are so cool that the temperature will not support respiration. The forage wakes up in the morning with the same level of carbohydrates as it went to bed with last night.

That occasionally happens here in the dead of winter.

I like to hear how and why each area and the growers in the areas manage their own personal climatic situation.

I do not like a grass alfalfa mixture, only because our local market wants pure alfalfa or pure grass.
An Alfalfa - Grass mixture has it's advantages. The cover crop people showed that little trick to me. The grass roots have a micro - fungus that can break the phosphate free from the native calcium we have. Phosphate fertilizers quickly become not available as a calcium phosphate with broadcast phosphate.

Have a grand and glorious remaining season.


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## SVFHAY

8350HiTech said:


> Most simply put, hay drying is an active process in the east and a passive process in the west. If we want it dry, we'll get it dry.


I think you nailed it pretty well. Here if you have dry, green, alfalfa with a reasonable amount of leaves you count yourself lucky. No doubt my best attempt would test like rather poor western alfalfa.

Week or so ago I cut 1.5 ton pure rr alfalfa, plenty of bloom. B&D rolls wide swath, Ted 8a.m. day 2. Rake by moonlight 10:30 p.m. that evening. Baled 9 p.m. day 3. Rare event to have alfalfa too dry that soon.


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## hayray

I mow when the dew comes off with a New Holland 9 ft 2 inch discbine with factory rollers and will rake the next day once dew is coming off and then bale that afternoon if the skies are mostly sunny and realitive humidity is below 50%. I don,t cut unless I get a prediction of weather that falls in those guidelines for a 3 day window.


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## hayray

Hugh said:


> I'm trying to figure how you East Coast guys can cut and bale in 3 days when, out here, in the West, with humidity in the area of 10-15 percent, temps going to 90F most days and 105F on others, and more - the wind is nearly always going, we need 5-8 days. We do have a guy down the road from us who brags he hasn't fertilized in 8 years and he cuts and bales in 3 days simply because his alfalfa plants are about 3-4 feet apart and I'm guessing he gets 200-300 pounds per acre per cut. With alfalfa that thin it ought to be dry before it hits the ground.
> 
> I grew up in Florida and I know that if you have wet clothes or a wet towel, it takes a long time to dry it out. Here, on a hot summer day, you can wring-out a tee shirt, toss it on the hood of your pick-up truck and it will be stiff dry in twenty minutes.


I am confused myself, something here does not make sense. If I can usually bale in 1 or 2 days here how in Montana it takes that long. Also, many responses I think are some similar climates as mine are taking so much longer, all except mlappin who noted the same time frame and is basically the same climate. What is causing such a difference?


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## deadmoose

I found with any decent yield here I have to ted my windrows out. My swather maybe will makw a 4 ft windrow on 12 ft cut? I keep forgetting to measure. If I ted it, depending on other factors and conditions, 3-4 days seems about right. Without tedding, first cut might as well be chopped cause it wont dry. I dont have a chopper. Later cuttings if conditions are right maybe save a day. Light hay not so much.


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## haystax

I guess there is a regional difference in the definition of "DRY." We turn off water 2-3 days before cutting, cut with 16' double conditioner machines make a 6' windrow. Rake when hay is mostly dry, bale at night with DEW moisture, zero STEM moisture.

100# 3-string bales and 1400# 3x4 bales. 500-700 ton stacked in each barn. My hay never "sweats" after its baled. Shipped hay around the world and never worry about having an issue with the pickiest owners of the most expensive horses in the world. That's my definition of DRY hay.

I can get hay to 20% stem moisture in a couple days. Getting it to 0% and back to 15% with dew is why Western hay takes longer.


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## Teslan

haystax said:


> I guess there is a regional difference in the definition of "DRY." We turn off water 2-3 days before cutting, cut with 16' double conditioner machines make a 6' windrow. Rake when hay is mostly dry, bale at night with DEW moisture, zero STEM moisture.
> 
> 100# 3-string bales and 1400# 3x4 bales. 500-700 ton stacked in each barn. My hay never "sweats" after its baled. Shipped hay around the world and never worry about having an issue with the pickiest owners of the most expensive horses in the world. That's my definition of DRY hay.
> 
> I can get hay to 20% stem moisture in a couple days. Getting it to 0% and back to 15% with dew is why Western hay takes longer.


I think the difference between you and I is that I turn irrigation off 1-2 weeks before cutting. That can cut drying down a day or two itself in a desert climate depending on the type of soil. My hay doesn't sweat either. I see that term a lot on here and I'm still not totally sure what it means.


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## cdhayman

haystax said:


> I guess there is a regional difference in the definition of "DRY." We turn off water 2-3 days before cutting, cut with 16' double conditioner machines make a 6' windrow. Rake when hay is mostly dry, bale at night with DEW moisture, zero STEM moisture.
> 100# 3-string bales and 1400# 3x4 bales. 500-700 ton stacked in each barn. My hay never "sweats" after its baled. Shipped hay around the world and never worry about having an issue with the pickiest owners of the most expensive horses in the world. That's my definition of DRY hay.
> I can get hay to 20% stem moisture in a couple days. Getting it to 0% and back to 15% with dew is why Western hay takes longer.


Our harvesting practices aren't really any different. We never bale with stem moisture. We have picky customers all over the U.S. I have a barn that can easily hold 1500 tons. We are in a very dry climate. But, as Teslan says, we also like to shut our water off a little longer. We like to have it off at least 5-6 days before we cut. To give you an idea how dry we are, I've got a friend about 20 minutes from me that bales in four days with a steamer. There is no stem moisture for him either.


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## SVFHAY

I wish I was unfamiliar with the term "sweat" in regard to hay curing.

The neighbor across the fencerow from me owns or owned a Stahli(?) steamer. He made it into hay and forage grower as the only one east of the Mississippi. Never saw it in use though.


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## snowball

Hugh said:


> I cut a 24" crop (no bloom) 5 days ago with a disc mower, raked it into windrows after two days, and it looks like I'm going to be 7-8 days total from cut to bale. This seems too long to me. We have had 90F and low humidities. 7-8 days, is this common?


Here were I 'am at there is a boat load of Alfalfa .... every 28 days... I personally don't agree with that . But that is how 80% of our customers do it.. THEN we need at least 5 full good drying. to bale it dry... FYI we don't usually get... soooo we start wrapping, & wrapping & wrapping... I sure would like to find the idiot that wrote the 28 day rule ... cause we have cut alot of crappy young lite hay , that doesn't dry


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## Rodney R

I think that for those of us here in the east our problem is that we HAVE to get the hay in the shed in 3 or 4 days, cause that's all we may have. We'll do whatever we have to, hence the tedder. We might have an 8 or 9 day window once per summer. And for that I envy guys in the west.

Sweating hay is simply what happens when we goof up - bale hay that is too wet with not enough preservative. The hay simply heats up and cooks the water (and nutrients) out. In the process it might spoil as well. Freaky sight - to see the steam coming out of a pile of hay.

Rodney


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## tarrquinn

Hugh said:


> I'm curious, and this is a "poll" of sorts. How many days go by from cutting to baling alfalfa? Do you use a mower/conditioner? sickle bar, disc mower, do you ted etc. How mature is the crop etc?
> 
> I cut a 24" crop (no bloom) 5 days ago with a disc mower, raked it into windrows after two days, and it looks like I'm going to be 7-8 days total from cut to bale. This seems too long to me. We have had 90F and low humidities. 7-8 days, is this common?


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## tarrquinn

I'm in Qld Australia winter now 40 low to 76 high,high humidity heavy dews irritated only get half a ton an acre per cut , will cut 10 months to 11 a year ... Would love your 2-3 ton an acre ( how thick are your stems and how tall is crop ?)
Haybine rubber rollers that I cant get crimping how I'd like , rotary rake Lucerne is 2 nd year 
Haven't had to turn irrigation off b4 hay as good rain but ground is dry after 1 day after cutting 
Mow Monday arvo as wide swath as possible probably 5 feet rake Tuesday arvo then Wednesday arvo and double them up if all go wells might bale Friday night more Likely Saturday morning where I will double up again b4 baling
I used to just use sickle bar no conditioner that would lay hay out completely no swath prob 1 day longer in drying to roller and wide swath


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## Hugh

... Would love your 2-3 ton an acre ( how thick are your stems and how tall is crop ?)

To get 2 tons + per acre here we are talking tall, thick stemmed alfalfa in with bloom. This greatly reduces the feed value so I can't think of any increase in value by letting the crop grow that far.


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## Hawk40

Hugh said:


> ... Would love your 2-3 ton an acre ( how thick are your stems and how tall is crop ?)
> 
> To get 2 tons + per acre here we are talking tall, thick stemmed alfalfa in with bloom. This greatly reduces the feed value so I can't think of any increase in value by letting the crop grow that far.


This volume info ( per cutting) is what I've been looking for on another thread.
My two year old alfalfa field has a THICK stand and around 24-25" tall when cut at 10% bloom and barely made 2 tons per ac. I've read about guys getting 3 tons per ac per cut but I can't see how that's possible if cut for decent quality


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## Teslan

Ok. I just got done cutting some 3rd cutting alfalfa it is about 10% bloom and 2 feet or so high. 2nd year seeding so it is still plenty think. Maybe a 1-1 1/2 an acre. We will see later. Let's see how long it will be before I am able to bale. It is cut at 15 feet with windrows about 5 feet wide or so. I'm not going to ted it. The ground is fairly try. Irrigation has been off a week. Supposed to be 90s, but chance of rain. Of course if it gets rain then who knows how long it will take.


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## haystax

Hawk40 said:


> This volume info ( per cutting) is what I've been looking for on another thread.
> My two year old alfalfa field has a THICK stand and around 24-25" tall when cut at 10% bloom and barely made 2 tons per ac. I've read about guys getting 3 tons per ac per cut but I can't see how that's possible if cut for decent quality


Climate and fertilizer program.


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## tarrquinn

Interesting I planted at 17 pound acre fertalised to get 9 ton acre , planted winter active variety has very fine stems gets just under 2 feet high , but struggles to bloom unless summer
How many cuts a year will you guys get with that high tonnage . Here cut every 28 days except Middle winter where it goes out to 6-8 weeks how many inches of water go on in hot States I guess I'm more akin to florada , how often with the fert 
Cheers


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## Hugh

The average yield (2005) of alfalfa per acre in Southern California desert areas was 7.5 tons per acre. They cut 10 -12 times per year. Water by irrigation in the summer months is about 8-10 inches per month.


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## Lostin55

I dont have much to add.
Here, the days between cut and bale vary significantly with tonnage and ground moisture. It can be as little as 4 to five days, and has taken as long as 9 days to cure. The local climate is very similar to Teslan's area. 
We try to have the water turned off 10 to 14 days before cutting as we have "heavy" ground.


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## barnrope

Up until last year we could pretty much cut one day, wait one day and then the next day you could rake in the morning and bale in the afternoon. Last year and this year have been a challenge to say the least. The quickest he had good dry hay was after 3 full days. On second cutting we baled a lot at 11 and 12 days and it was pretty much junk from all the humidity and dew at nights.

I used to think alfalfa/grass dried faster than pure alfalfa, but not the case this year. I have 50 acres of rr alfalfa next to 17 acres of alf/grass in the same field and cut it the same time. The pure alfalfa has been consistently drying faster than the alfalfa/ grass. The yields have been pretty close with slightly less on the pure alfalfa which may be part of the earlier dry down.


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## hay wilson in TX

Possibly the total tonnage is enough higher to slow drying?

The curing is a function of Pan Evaporation, and you can get a forecast guess.
Next is yield, and it is up to you to guess the yield.
What you do have control over is the width of the drying swath.

Your Minnesota Dan Undersander has a graph that demonstrates all of this. Their pan evaporation is in metric but you can translate that to inches.


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## Teslan

I checked my alfalfa I cut about 28 hours ago. Leaves are dry, but of course stems are not, but it has done some good drying today. 92 degrees with a breeze after a low of 58 this morning and lots of dew. It is about 35% humidity at the moment. But then I just checked the part of the field that was flood irrigated and hasn't been irrigated for 3 weeks. The part I will actually check to see when it's right to bale was under a pivot and was last irrigated about a week ago. So the ground is wet.


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## Rhinoman

Here in NM I cut around 9 am condition with circle c lay it out as wide as I can. With a normal year day 2 rake at 5:30 in the morning with the dew single windrow it. Day 3 10:00 am I am baling it has fast as I can go I have about 1:30hr. for perfect conditions. I like 14% moisture in my little bales and 12% for my big bales. Put in the barn start the pivot, I usually cut every 28 to 30 days. This year at least 5 days from start to finish. But this year I am averaging 2 tons to acre every cutting going on my fourth cut next week.

Ryan


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## Hugh

Rhinoman said:


> Here in NM I cut around 9 am condition with circle c lay it out as wide as I can. With a normal year day 2 rake at 5:30 in the morning with the dew single windrow it. Day 3 10:00 am I am baling it has fast as I can go I have about 1:30hr. for perfect conditions. I like 14% moisture in my little bales and 12% for my big bales. Put in the barn start the pivot, I usually cut every 28 to 30 days. This year at least 5 days from start to finish. But this year I am averaging 2 tons to acre every cutting going on my fourth cut next week.
> 
> Ryan


Ryan,

Great production numbers. Questions: Have you done a RFV test? Any bud/bloom when you cut?


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## Hokelund Farm

1 of 2 ideal scenarios for us:

1. Cut Monday afternoon/evening with a mo/co. Rake on Thursday as the dew is drying. By the time we are done raking its ready to bale.

2. Cut Monday morning. Rake Wednesday afternoon and bale later that afternoon/evening.

Usually 3 crops, could squeeze in a 4th depending on the year. Often times it follows the holidays = Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Labor Day.


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## tarrquinn

Is that year round Ryan or how many cuts a year
What variety puts out heaviest tonnage, here we talk winter active etc with headings of 3 being winter dormant 10 winter active do u guys have same sort of guidelines 
Ps so jealous we can't get RR alfalfa here


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## hay wilson in TX

Tonnage is more dependent on the harvest interval.

Our University types like a 28 day interval as it is simple to compare yields.

The high feed value goal will harvest at early bud. The number of days is depending on climate & fertility. These are all irrigated.

Here on to the East Coast where conditions are wetter. Here with numerous fields to harvest we cut when the weather permits. My market is for hay that is cut at quarter bloom. Highest yield is usually cut at half to three quarter bloom. Beyond 3/4 bloom yield and quality are both hurt.

This year it was not until mid July before we could get on the ground with equipment. The alfalfa had mature seed pods, green seed pods, heavy bloom, as well as in early bud stage. Four growth stages in each bale.
Sorry hay to say the least.

We will have to wait to see how September does.

Farming here can be interesting.

This year the wheat growers had to dig their grain out of the dirt. A lot of wheat sprouted in the head.
Maybe this will be the year that cotton does well.

My Cousin, sent me a hat from the town of Hay. He migrated when he finished his schooling, is married and has one daughter. Taught School in Victoria, and now is retired.


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## Rhinoman

Hey guys I get 5 to 6 solid cuttings a year. But every year is different, as far bloom % I like next to no bloom that is were you get the best results higher protein, super rfv, haven't tested my new hay this year and can find my paper for last year. I have really enjoyed the production from tug of war extreme that is the alfalfa I have now. I will be cutting Monday if the weather holds and report back on my tonnage, I hoping 1.5 tons to the acre but I am pushing it with 27 day cut cycle this time. Yes with scale, were I live we can mild winter but can have hard winter. This last winter my alfalfa went dormant for only a month. So pretty hard to gauge what alfalfa do get in my climate and it can extremely hot it has be 102-105 for roughly 10 straight days with about 20% humidity, uv scale has been 11 that is what cures the alfalfa so fast.


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## Teslan

For my cutting of alfalfa on Tuesday it would have baled today. 4 days later with no tedding and raking would have just been to merge too windrows. It was nice and cured yesterday afternoon. Stems snapping. Then we got a tenth of an inch of rain. Maybe tomorrow....


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## nanuk

hay wilson in TX said:


> This year it was not until mid July before we could get on the ground with equipment. The alfalfa had mature seed pods, green seed pods, heavy bloom, as well as in early bud stage. Four growth stages in each bale.
> Sorry hay to say the least.


that describes the hay I bale EVERY year.


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## Hawk40

Cut 40 ac Monday, raked half today (wed) with the skin just getting hard to scrape off, will rake the other half in the morning and start baling late tomorrow or fri morning.
I hope
That's been the pattern on the first and second cuts.


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## Hugh

Hawk40 said:


> Cut 40 ac Monday, raked half today (wed) with the skin just getting hard to scrape off, will rake the other half in the morning and start baling late tomorrow or fri morning.
> I hope
> That's been the pattern on the first and second cuts.


Looks great. I can tell that ain't Florida.


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## Hawk40

Hugh said:


> Looks great. I can tell that ain't Florida.


Hay in Florida is difficult.
Hay in south central Florida is close to insane.
Good market if you can get some up between rain showers.


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## Hawk40

No go on thur pm
But getting close, really need to get it baled today and sat morning to beat this wind that's coming


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## Hawk40

I guess the shorter days and maybe smokey haze played a role but ended up fighting to get this dry enough to bale. Last five ac wouldn't have dried ahead of the rain if the wind hadn't blown 35 mph all afternoon.
Ended up getting it all cover in the stack 10min ahead of the rain.
Did have two windrows blow away into the next county but overall got pretty lucky.


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## AgriBux

Here we cut irrigated alfalfa that yields 1.5-2 ton/acre. We use a NH Discbine windrower let it dry then rake two windrows together to bale square bales.

Dry time can vary due to

1-Day time temp. First and fourth crops can take longer because of cooler temp, second and third can be quicker

2-Nightime dew. Heavy dews are tied with cooler night temp and how much you irrigate

3-How recent you have irrigated. If you cut the day after you irrigate that wet soil will keep the bottom of the windrow wet and it is hard to get dry.

I have baled anywhere from 3 days to 8 days from cutting without any rain. If you want to double windrows wait til it feels dry enough to bale in the swather windrow and then rake the next morning with a little dew to keep the leaves intact, then bale that night.


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## shortrow

siscofarms said:


> Here in western ky . Not very often , and we're talking 3rd and 4th cutting PURE alfalfa but I have cut in the evening , ted in the morning , and be bailing within 24 hrs . Mostly its a 36hr thing and if theres any grass at all in it that'll slow the process down also. I have found up here that a little orchardgrass helps it to dry a little quicker.


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