# Dairy Groups Raise Complaints.



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

DTN.....Chris Clayton.

Regards, Mike

https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/article/2017/01/30/canadian-milk-pricing-policy-set-u-s


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Um, I must be missing something, the canadians are going to set it up so the markets favor canadian milk products&#8230;.

Isn't that what tariffs on imports will do here?


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

Wasn't it the Canadians that were screaming bloody murder how unfair it was for the United States to require that beef imported

into this country be labeled with the country of origin? I know it might not be comparing apples to apples but it seems to me they

are taking action to limit U.S. imports of milk..


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

We have a complex milk market here - it is supply managed. A bunch of opening up the industrial part to the US was tied to TPP but I'm not sure if this is related or not.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> We have a complex milk market here - it is supply managed. A bunch of opening up the industrial part to the US was tied to TPP but I'm not sure if this is related or not.


By complex to you mean a highly subsidized quota system?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Thorim said:


> Wasn't it the Canadians that were screaming bloody murder how unfair it was for the United States to require that beef imported
> 
> into this country be labeled with the country of origin? I know it might not be comparing apples to apples but it seems to me they
> 
> are taking action to limit U.S. imports of milk..


This is interesting article on tarriffs to canada for milk products from 2015.Holy crap 241-299% tarriff.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

What subsidies?

I was fixing my buddies TMR mixer on Sunday morning at his dairy barn, he'd sure love to get some of those mythical subsidies as he is loosing money at the current milk price even without paying himself a cent (he works full time and runs two other farms as well).

We don't have ag extension agents, we have to hire private companies.

We don't have any programs like CRP here.

The closest we get to dairy subsidies is some loan backing programs and if you get a environment assessment that says you have manure runoff you can apply for maybe 10-20% rebate of the price of manure containment to protect water supply. You pay tax on the rebate like it was income.

A few years ago there was a new technology grant that a few farms got to promote modernization.

We don't have the extra bonus depreciation rules the US had on equipment. We are limited to 1/2 the normal rate in first year of use then the normal rate on declining balance.



swmnhay said:


> By complex to you mean a highly subsidized quota system?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

"By comparison, U.S. subsidies to dairy producers represent about 40% of American dairy farmer incomes, when it reaches them. These subsidies come directly from taxpayers' pockets. Without that hidden support American dairy products would be much more costly for consumers, and much more expensive than the equivalent Canadian product."


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> What subsidies?
> 
> I was fixing my buddies TMR mixer on Sunday morning at his dairy barn, he'd sure love to get some of those mythical subsidies as he is loosing money at the current milk price even without paying himself a cent (he works full time and runs two other farms as well).
> 
> ...


Does the price recieved sound better than subsidy?It's not a free market system and that was the point.I know its a quota system and they can only produce so much or the extra milk goes to the open market.The fact remains it is priced much higher then the US milk market.According to this Canada milk price is 60% higher then the US price.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/business/what-farmers-in-other-countries-get-paid-for-milk.htm

I don't have a problem with free trade with Canada but not if its a one way street.Alot of cattle and hogs come here but I can see why a US dairys could be upset over the Canadian milk product tarriffs.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

slowzuki said:


> "By comparison, U.S. subsidies to dairy producers represent about 40% of American dairy farmer incomes, when it reaches them. These subsidies come directly from taxpayers' pockets. Without that hidden support American dairy products would be much more costly for consumers, and much more expensive than the equivalent Canadian product."


So if the tarriff is to level the playing field how can they come up with a 250-300% tarriff?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its not a completely free market but you are free to buy as much quota as you want at quota auctions or negotiate privately to buy quota. Its more akin to drilling rights management.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Well partly because its dumped on the canadian market and dairy processors are using it as a milk substitute in products. Its the same accusation about Canadian softwood lumber and paper products going to the US market.

Overall Canada buys more stuff from the US than the other way around. As our manufacturing industries are gutted out similar to the US I imagine that trend will continue.



swmnhay said:


> So if the tarriff is to level the playing field how can they come up with a 250-300% tarriff?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Also note producers here are not allowed to use rBGH period.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

slowzuki said:


> Overall Canada buys more stuff from the US than the other way around. As our manufacturing industries are gutted out similar to the US I imagine that trend will continue.


Depends on the month. According to my 'alternative' facts, the total for year of 2016 favored Canada (more exports to US than imports from US).

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

However these are US figures, Canadian figures could be different. 

Then again Canada doesn't get much foreign aid from the US (see 2015 figures) below.

http://us-foreign-aid.insidegov.com/l/30/Canada

Larry


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

When you include services and goods together, there is money flowing from Canada to the US and it has been for a while now. I'm actually a bit surprised how much services from the US are sold into Canada, I would have thought it was much lower.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada



r82230 said:


> Depends on the month. According to my 'alternative' facts, the total for year of 2016 favored Canada (more exports to US than imports from US).
> 
> https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html
> 
> ...


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

slowzuki said:


> When you include services and goods together, there is money flowing from Canada to the US and it has been for a while now. I'm actually a bit surprised how much services from the US are sold into Canada, I would have thought it was much lower.
> 
> https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada


Point taken, just goes to show which numbers you want to look at. A problem I would have with 'services' is who is determining the value and what is the service being provided. If you are sending your attorneys (and their services) please stop.    We already have way too many of them folks here already IMHO.

Larry


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Big border tax on lawyers!

I'm really not entirely sure what all we buy for services. A ton of equipment here is serviced by contractors from the states. Lots of american contractors up here working on whole projects too. American companies own tons of assets in Canada too which tend to have their engineering and accounting done in the US head offices or by US based asset management firms.



r82230 said:


> Point taken, just goes to show which numbers you want to look at. A problem I would have with 'services' is who is determining the value and what is the service being provided. If you are sending your attorneys (and their services) please stop.    We already have way too many of them folks here already IMHO.
> 
> Larry


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

http://www.agweb.com/mobile/article/us-dairies-blame-canada-blmg/


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> http://www.agweb.com/mobile/article/us-dairies-blame-canada-blmg/


Didn't see anything but a pic....made me want some cinimmon toast crunch....


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