# Customer Complaint - Bad Bales?



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

I have a customer who has been buying hay from me for 3 or 4 years. The customer is a friend who lives a few miles from me. I rarely get a complaint out of 30 or so customers but he has complained the most. Every year most repeat customers contact me with their hay requirement. Every year he is late to give me his requirement so out of respect I contact him for his hay needs which is 300+ small square bales. So this year, one year later after buying last year's hay he tells me out of the 150 3rd cutting bales 50 had mold. I was totally floored. Like most of ya'll I use a moisture meter and hay preservative (CropSaver) which I start applying around 17-24% and quit baling the windrow if it gets much higher. I don't like using the stuff but ya gotta do what ya gotta do when you're up against the weather. I don't keep tedious records for moisture, CropSaver application etc. so I don't remember the conditions of that day.

Out of the 700+ 3rd cutting bales, I sold about 60% to six other customers and used the rest for my horses with no issues or complaints. So I'll be paying him a visit this weekend after he gets off the road. I asked him why are you contacting me now and why didn't you contact when you starting noticing bad bales. He indicated that he thought he could work through the problem. So now he is looking for compensation. After the visit this weekend I'll probably compensate to some percentage of the loss. I don't need his business (i don't like whiners and he borderlines as being a whiner).

Who else ran into a similar problem?


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Me!

His actions speak to his character. I think I would ask him what he did with the bad bales. I'll bet he'll say he disposed of them. Ask him where?

I would tell the next time he comes across a bad bale he should set it aside and call you immediately so that you can see what is going on with the bales so that you can improve your process. Odds are you won't hear from him again. Or, if the bales are bad, you'll have more info to make better hay.

Ralph


----------



## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

He could be right ya know. Maybe it's how he stored them too. Weird things do happen from time to time. You did say he was a friend...


----------



## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have always made it clear to my customers that I do the absolute level best to make the best hay possible each and every time. if there is a problem, I want to know about it immediately so I can figure out what happened and how. I have rarely had mold complaints, and several that come to mind were people that wanted hay early, bought a few bales that I told them were iffy and then stored them incorrectly. I have had perhaps 4 or 5 occurrences of "my horses won't eat the hay". These are typically due to the customer overfeeding hay when there is too much grass available as i am feeding the same hay out of exactly the same place in the barn they got their's from. I cull those customers as they are just too much overhead. I think wanting a rebate this long after the fact is BS. Imagine going to the grocery store and telling them you wanted a rebate for broccoli that you bought last winter that was moldy. Think you wallet would be any fatter when you left?"


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Honesty with my experience with people saying they have bad hay and wanting a refund. 1/4 buy the poorer hay to begin with cause they dont want to spend the extra for the good hay. Sorry but you get what you pay for. 1/4 of them have improper storage method. Sorry that is not my fault but i will educate them on how to store the hay better. 1/4 of them are just looking for free hay. Some of these can be a real PIA. They will pull every trick in the book. But can never provide proof of bad hay. "Oh its so bad its killing my horse but he managed to eat it all anyways. He is still alive and i have no proof hay was bad but give me my money back" With these people stand your ground or they will walk all over you.
Lastly the last 1/4 do have some bad bales and i refund them somehow. But i need proof before i do.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

He could be right. I have rarely made a mistake on Dusty hay I've been doing this a long time but I won't say never. I had to call one time and went and looked at it and we were in the wrong I took two guys down there we pulled that hang out we gave him new stuff plus 25 Bales exter and I'm talking small bales for his inconvenience. If I went and looked at them and opened I could very easily tell if it was his fault in storage or mine in harvest some bales. Hey that is baled dry, will still open up with a nice flaky Fall Apart texture and the mold will be working its way in from the outside in. Hay that was bailed too tuff, will probably have the most predominant mold in the center of the bale and where it is moldy it will be packed and stuck together .Open the bale kick it around if it sticks together where it was moldy it was probably bailed wet. if the moldy stuff can be shook apart without a lot of effort stuff can be kicked and shook apart without any effort then it was probably bailed dry and the mold entered in storage.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

According to the way that you described the entire situation weatherman, I would do everything I could to make it right with him and then ask if he was completely satisfied. When he said that you and him were good, I would never sell him another bale of hay. That should be very easy to do since he is a procrastinator about calling.....just tell him sorry it has all been spoken for if he calls.... and tell him that you wished he would have called earlier. Just like there are always other places for customers to buy from.....there are always other customers for sellers to sell to. Life is too short to be jerked around over hay/greed.

Regards, Mike


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Ditto complaining about moldy hay 6-8 months after accepting deliver of hay would nor sit well with me.


----------



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

50 out of 150 bales is 1 out of 3. That's 33% of the bales were bad. I just don't see it. Ask for the 50 bales back and whatever's left over. If he cut 50 out of 150 bales before reporting a problem I'd be inclined to take back what's left over with a refund for those bales and some reasonable number of dusty/moldy bales before a flag should have been thrown. Stand your ground, your going to loose this customer and regardless of if you give a full refund or deny him a sale later, you're going to get pasted via his word of mouth anyway, so settle on your terms.

Also - one thing I will absolutely not warranty is "my horse won't eat the hay". How in the heck can one reasonably grow hay that with that expectation hanging over your head.

Good luck,
Bill


----------



## GNA_farm (Jul 21, 2014)

A couple years ago I ran into a somewhat similar situation, except it was a first time buyer. When I delivered she was supposed to have help loading the bales into her barn but only one scrawny guy was there (not even employee but a visitor from Europe). She asked how much it would cost to help so I helped load the barn for $100 (200 small squares), all of the hay was good when baled and no complaints from many other customers. She then asked if she could get another load delivered but pay on installments as she couldn't afford the hay right away but it looked good and she wanted more, obviously the answer was no (cash on the barrel-head especially on new customers). Off I go assuming she'd call when ready or never again.

One year later (within 3 days according to my records), I get a call from her saying that she fed my hay and her prize $100K stallion got sick (none of the other 30 horses she had). Even though it was a year later I said I would come over and look at the remaining bales to make sure it was mine and try to determine issue knowing full well 200 bales would not last a year for 30+ stabled horses. She tells me that she spent $20K on vet bills for her stallion and had none of the bales left and her "equine attorney" assured her that she could sue me for that but that she would just take 200 replacement bales... I told her that without being called when the first bale or 2 were determined to be dusty and having no bales left I would not be able to confirm fault and therefore not be able to replace for free.

2 weeks later I get 3 voicemails from her, first one saying she was going to sue for the vet bills if I didn't replace, 2nd saying that she was desperate for hay and needed the issue resolved, and 3rd saying that she would buy another load at a heavy discount because she needed the hay. I spoke with her once after those voicemails and said that I could not sell her any hay and to have a nice day, she responds with her "equine attorney" (I loved how she kept bringing that up) was going to be in contact with me and to expect papers in the mail, I say OK, I'll give her my attorney's name and she can just deal direct with him. Never heard another word out of the scam artist after that but I'm guessing based on the entire interaction she has pulled and succeeded in this before, I've just spent too much time in court for other things to worry about it too much...


----------



## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I suspect that the "equine attorney" was the back part of the equine!


----------



## Ridgefarmer63 (Apr 5, 2017)

First off, if I could afford a 100K pony and it got sick on your hay, you woulda heard from my "Pony lawyer" a lot earlier than a year after the fact.

She's full of it. Friggin' horse people.

That's why I got cows. They'll eat anything.


----------



## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I had a guy last winter tell me my hay was bad. Killing his horses. He either wanted full refund on the hay but wanted to keep the hay to feed. Or another truck load of same hay. Which if it's that bad why would you want more of the same stuff?

Anyways he was yelling at me over the phone threaten to take me to court over sick or dead horses. Yelling so loud my wife in other room came running in scared because we could afford being sued. I just told the guy go ahead and sue. You say the hay is bad. I told you to than stop feeding it. If you take me to court how are you going to prove my hay killed your animal? Second how are you going to sue me when i told you to stop feeding the hay. I have a witness that also heard that. But i will come look at the hay and see if there are any problems.
Long story short he was just an old grumpy man trying to score free hay. I guess there was a reason why he had to truck it 100 miles cause i dont think anyone local will sell to him anymore. When i sold the hay i just though he trucked it that far because of the drought.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Ditto complaining about moldy hay 6-8 months after accepting deliver of hay would nor sit well with me.


 I have to agree with that you know 8 months is a long time.


----------



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

GNA_farm said:


> A couple years ago I ran into a somewhat similar situation, except it was a first time buyer. When I delivered she was supposed to have help loading the bales into her barn but only one scrawny guy was there (not even employee but a visitor from Europe). She asked how much it would cost to help so I helped load the barn for $100 (200 small squares), all of the hay was good when baled and no complaints from many other customers. She then asked if she could get another load delivered but pay on installments as she couldn't afford the hay right away but it looked good and she wanted more, obviously the answer was no (cash on the barrel-head especially on new customers). Off I go assuming she'd call when ready or never again.
> 
> One year later (within 3 days according to my records), I get a call from her saying that she fed my hay and her prize $100K stallion got sick (none of the other 30 horses she had). Even though it was a year later I said I would come over and look at the remaining bales to make sure it was mine and try to determine issue knowing full well 200 bales would not last a year for 30+ stabled horses. She tells me that she spent $20K on vet bills for her stallion and had none of the bales left and her "equine attorney" assured her that she could sue me for that but that she would just take 200 replacement bales... I told her that without being called when the first bale or 2 were determined to be dusty and having no bales left I would not be able to confirm fault and therefore not be able to replace for free.
> 
> 2 weeks later I get 3 voicemails from her, first one saying she was going to sue for the vet bills if I didn't replace, 2nd saying that she was desperate for hay and needed the issue resolved, and 3rd saying that she would buy another load at a heavy discount because she needed the hay. I spoke with her once after those voicemails and said that I could not sell her any hay and to have a nice day, she responds with her "equine attorney" (I loved how she kept bringing that up) was going to be in contact with me and to expect papers in the mail, I say OK, I'll give her my attorney's name and she can just deal direct with him. Never heard another word out of the scam artist after that but I'm guessing based on the entire interaction she has pulled and succeeded in this before, I've just spent too much time in court for other things to worry about it too much...


It's when I read/hear crap like that, I really like my "Mulch King" gig.

I have had the "pleasure" of meeting many horse owners.
While many of them are OK, a disproportionate number of them are frighteningly narcissistic, egotistical and they lie habitually. They are also some of the cheapest scam artists I've ever known. They know they can't really afford horses, but they also love the "status" they get from equine sports and can't live without the accompanying adulation that feeds their inflated egos.

When I first started out, my daughters friend mother & grandmother used to brag about how they'd screw the hay farmer on hay all the time. Their scam was to buy a couple hundred bales at 5-6/bale and complain the "the last 40-50 bales were moldy". Knowing many farmers are very conciencious people, the farmer would replace the 40-50 bales with the next delivery. That way they'd get 50 free bales with every 200 effectively reducing their bale price to maybe 4 bucks a bale.

I had one that would put on her push up bra or halter top and apply lipstick in my truck mirror every time I'd pull in with hay and try to get you all horned up thinking it would get you to stack hay cheaper. Finally one day I looked at her right in the eye and said "I got way more (than what you got) at home". What a whore and married like 35 yrs old too. Probably the first one to cry when a guy cat calls her, too...A guy I met later that sold her hay said she did same bullshit with him, too.
I hate those kind of people and learned very early on that I wasn't cut out to do business with their sleazy tactics. 
I'm sure there's a lot of fine horse people and I still supply a few of them with hay. For now, I'll take my mulch king hay gig and handful of feed customers.


----------



## SCtrailrider (May 1, 2016)

All this is so funny for me to read, as my avatar shows I have a few horses myself.

We camp & trail ride all over the place and we see every kind of "horsey" person their is..

Some places we ride have lots of different types of trails, some hard on the horse, some a easy walk...

Most, say 80% of the other people are horsey folks, you all know them, leg wraps, tail wrapped, english saddle, rider sitting all straight and proper..

Then their's us, saddle bags packed with ice & crown, sandwiches, horses have mud up to their belly, you know, kinda like they are having fun playing in the creek & mud.. riders have chaps, not because they are sporting the look but because they ride where others wouldn't because our horses will do anything we ask them to do and enjoy doing it... they like being a real horse, not something that looks like a horse but is afraid to come out of the barn...

We do get looks after a hard ride when back at the camp, most think we are being tooo rough and asking our horses to do things we shouldn't, I laugh and say my horse is a real horse and his rider is a real rider that was born & lives 100yrs too late.... and my horse knows his rider won't get him hurt but his rider will let him be a horse...

Man, I'm glad I don't sell hay.......


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That's funny ^^^^
I would jump through the hoops necessary, and take him off the list of customers....life is short
I always liked this guy.....

The hay nazi....


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

SCtrailrider said:


> All this is so funny for me to read, as my avatar shows I have a few horses myself.
> 
> We camp & trail ride all over the place and we see every kind of "horsey" person their is..
> 
> ...


Dad would call them people you talk about *California Fart Inhalers*. He is a old cowboy from way back, and he will not ride unless he has a cow to chase. He has rode some really rank horses; one would kick your foot out of the stirrup, he got kicked several times. He told the owner of the ranch he was working for that he should get rid of that horse because it was going to kill someone someday.


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

That is too funny. I’ll use a line or two. “Nothing for you. Come back one year.” Gotta love the Soup Nazi.


----------



## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Being in any businesss has times you want to kick a can or something. In my 31 years as insurance agent have had clients make same type complaints. Depending on the details I will ignore but if they are over the line have found a letter addressing it with supporting documents to prove their complaint was not legit has worked very well. Yes I have even fired some clients when they proved to be lying to us or playing games.

They will distract you and drain your energy, best to tell them good bye. Try to do so in a polite way and honest. At same time I give the reason why and I am telling them good bye: " can not risk my business working with lies".

If you have a form or such you give the buyer on what to expect with the hay and if they have any issues how they are to contract you and prove the issue even if they do not sign it just be sure each customer gets it but having them sign it with them getting a copy will help with such. Just like the warranty instructions with something you buy.

If it were me I would be straight with this guy and use what you have already said about him as reason you will not sell to him again. I would put it in writing and keep copy: that way there is no doubt what was said and you do not have to worry about either of you getting fired up talking and say something you will regret.

Something like this: Dear Joe, I was really surprised when you told me the hay you bought from me was what ever he claimed. You knew to call me if you found any issue with the hay so it could be verified but with you waiting a year and not even keeping hay for inspection there is no way to verify the claim. However I am doing such and such in an effort to show my effort of being fair with my friend. As I value our friendship over business think it is best for you to find another source of hay.

No idea if you are aware how many customers I have and it is interesting you are the only one to had bad hay.

Your friend Sam

You may not want to even say this much but keep it polite but stand your grand. Some people have to see it in print to understand the foolishness of what has been said or claimed or to understand you are being polite but firm. Do not admit any thing. If you have someone that can read the letter before you mail it do so. You may have some here you could email it to them for their comments.

Will tell you as a new hay growing this is one of the things that concerns me the most. Not false complaints but truly bad hay.


----------



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Palmettokat said:


> Being in any businesss has times you want to kick a can or something. In my 31 years as insurance agent have had clients make same type complaints.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Very well said!

I like to take the approach: "Stand your ground, without getting mean or mad."

Ralph


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> That's funny ^^^^
> I would jump through the hoops necessary, and take him off the list of customers....life is short
> I always liked this guy.....
> 
> The hay nazi....


I never could watch Seinfeld....I know a lot did, but I just never found it to be entertaining.

Regards, Mike


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I used to love to watch Seinfeld......didn't watch it much, but always liked it. I've watched reruns more than the when the show was out.....I guess it used to come on when I was working and I never recorded shows in advance with my VCR . Some folks are gonna see that and think....."now just what the heck is a VCR....." I'll answer, it's that thing your mom and dad had below the TV that always flashed "12:00"....


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Reminds me of the guy I refused to sell hay to after he chewed my ass for not holding hay for 6 months after I brought him 1 load and he said he would need more later.The next yr I just said I didn't have any for sale.Couple yrs later he had his son call to buy it who I didn't know.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Palmettokat said:


> Being in any businesss has times you want to kick a can or something. In my 31 years as insurance agent have had clients make same type complaints. Depending on the details I will ignore but if they are over the line have found a letter addressing it with supporting documents to prove their complaint was not legit has worked very well. Yes I have even fired some clients when they proved to be lying to us or playing games.
> 
> They will distract you and drain your energy, best to tell them good bye. Try to do so in a polite way and honest. At same time I give the reason why and I am telling them good bye: " can not risk my business working with lies".
> 
> ...


 unfortunately in this case you are correct. I have always encouraged people to make it right in the hay business because it's so easy to do and it helps your reputation, but if the hay is long gone I don't know how you can correct the problem.


----------



## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Vol said:


> I never could watch Seinfeld....I know a lot did, but I just never found it to be entertaining.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I never liked Seinfeld, about as interesting as watching water boil.


----------



## Ray 54 (Aug 2, 2014)

A cheap skate is a cheap skate. I have had trouble with cattle people as well as horse people.

Any more tell me and I will trade you other hay. But none of this "well I feed it cause it was all I had". Had 2 cattle guys take hay from the same field both cheap but one wanted more the other one it was junk.Could not have been so bad if they ate it. Yes the steep parts had vetch and clover, flat part didn,t.One went for the easy to load, the other for better cattle feed.

Only several times but I have seen oat hay that looked and smelled good but cattle or horses had to be real hungry before they ate it. I feed most of my hay anymore so not worried about what other think of it.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

weatherman said:


> I have a customer who has been buying hay from me for 3 or 4 years. The customer is a friend who lives a few miles from me. I rarely get a complaint out of 30 or so customers but he has complained the most. Every year most repeat customers contact me with their hay requirement. Every year he is late to give me his requirement so out of respect I contact him for his hay needs which is 300+ small square bales. So this year, one year later after buying last year's hay he tells me out of the 150 3rd cutting bales 50 had mold. I was totally floored. Like most of ya'll I use a moisture meter and hay preservative (CropSaver) which I start applying around 17-24% and quit baling the windrow if it gets much higher. I don't like using the stuff but ya gotta do what ya gotta do when you're up against the weather. I don't keep tedious records for moisture, CropSaver application etc. so I don't remember the conditions of that day.
> 
> Out of the 700+ 3rd cutting bales, I sold about 60% to six other customers and used the rest for my horses with no issues or complaints. So I'll be paying him a visit this weekend after he gets off the road. I asked him why are you contacting me now and why didn't you contact when you starting noticing bad bales. He indicated that he thought he could work through the problem. So now he is looking for compensation. After the visit this weekend I'll probably compensate to some percentage of the loss. I don't need his business (i don't like whiners and he borderlines as being a whiner).
> 
> Who else ran into a similar problem?


 can hay that is build at 24% and treated with acid be horse hay. We would not put 24% hey on the horse Market here treated or not. Everybody's area is different


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

endrow said:


> can hay that is build at 24% and treated with acid be horse hay. We would not put 24% hey on the horse Market here treated or not. Everybody's area is different


Define horse hay? Is there such a definition or just an opinion? You say, "Everybody's area is different". I would interpret that everyone has an opinion. I have 700 bales of 2nd cutting hay sitting in the barn with foxtail. I advertise it that it has foxtail. If horsey people want to buy it because it is $4 cheaper then that is on them. Maybe some folks here advertise that CropSaver or some other hay preservative was applied, I don't. Then again I don't sell hay when the moisture meter goes above 20% with acid applied. I keep that myself.


----------



## kurt1981 (Apr 18, 2017)

pretty simple.......if you go there and there are 50 bales of moldy hay id say its your fault> if they are not that bad, no refunds..........at 24 moisture id say its possible they are moldy


----------



## Dr Dean (Nov 4, 2013)

Several years ago I had a lady, using the term very generously, claim I had sold her moldy hay. Fortunately she called right away so I went and inspected the hay. Yes it was moldy, bales were very loose, and not the ones I had sold her. I use plastic twine and those were tied with sisal. Needless to say I didn't give her anything and I no longer sell to her or her friends, birds of a feather and all. After that I figured that I should go one step further in identifying my hay to completely avoid any problems.

I use two different colors of twine, right side orange left side pink. This way I don't have any problems, people notice the colors and ask why so I tell them about that lady trying to scam me. I also make sure to inform them to contact me right away if they find bad bales so I can look at them and make it right. Now if someone pulls this year later thing with no proof, I'm sorry but I can't see the proof so no exchange or refund and I am done doing business with you.


----------



## kurt1981 (Apr 18, 2017)

24 percent moisture lucky you didnt burn the dudes barn down


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

kurt1981 said:


> 24 percent moisture lucky you didnt burn the dudes barn down


Kurt, you don't know what you are talking about. You picked and choose what I said and tell me "lucky I didn't burn the dudes barn down." I never said the "dude" was sold Hay with 24% moisture.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

weatherman said:


> Define horse hay? Is there such a definition or just an opinion? You say, "Everybody's area is different". I would interpret that everyone has an opinion. I have 700 bales of 2nd cutting hay sitting in the barn with foxtail. I advertise it that it has foxtail. If horsey people want to buy it because it is $4 cheaper then that is on them. Maybe some folks here advertise that CropSaver or some other hay preservative was applied, I don't. Then again I don't sell hay when the moisture meter goes above 20% with acid applied. I keep that myself.


I agree everyone's opinion is different . I myself think you could bale hay up into the 24% range and treat it with cropsaver and it would be safe for horses no dust ,must or mold . But the horse people we deal with will not buy it unless it was baled dry. Even when we bale it dry we still put 2 or 3 #s of crop saver on . We would do just like weatherman ,,sell what is dry.and feed to our own what had moisture .

As far as horse hay types Some will only feed strait grass. Some feed strait alfalfa Some prefer a alf\og mix . We are getting more and more away from strait grass . Alfalfa and alfalfa grass mixes . yield more and have much higher profit levels for us .


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Checked out the hay this morning. The main complaint was "the hay is moldy because it smells bad", his words. Opened up several bales no dust or mold present. Looked at several open bales no dust or mold. The hay color looked normal, was not carmelized as if too much hay preservative was applied. Color was not green like the day it was baled but an off green, if that makes sense. He stores the hay off the ground on plywood with 1/2" holes throughout on top of 2x4 on edge. About 25 bales or so are store in a small shallow loft with little air circulation. Not sure why the hay has a tainted scent. 
My resolution was to replace any unopened bales, he delivers.


----------



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Was that "tainted scent" similar to a tobacco scent? That sometimes happens even without mold or dusting....like if hay is dry and in correct moisture range, but humidity is high. I have never had it be a problem as all livestock that I have seen will readily consume the hay. I have also noticed that this seems more prevalent in Orchard grass. I am glad you appeased your consumer, which allows you to rightfully move on.

Regards, Mike

Edit; I would encourage him to try to get more air circulation. And if you sell to him again, I would be sure that he did not get any hay that was fresh out of the field....six weeks old or older might be a good thought.


----------



## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

My personal preference is the hay that smells like tobacco/sweet tea, Cattle eat every last bite of it. Sure the carmelization reduces nutrition content but consumption rises. The loss of minor nutrition value is made up for in intake to weight gain ratio. If you really want more bang for your buck, add the lost protein through supplements with the increased fiber and voila... GAINS!

For what it is worth: if nutrition loss is only a few percent and consumption increases ten percent, at worst you even out (but I'm sure you will gain). Postive 1: If you feed on pasture in the winter like I do, the hay that would be wasted is processed into beneficial fertilizer and spread out. Postive 2: cattle consume less water in winter but water is necessary for conversion, higher intake increases water usage (along with heated tanks). Positive 3: weight gain and better conditioning.

Some hay buyers just don't know the value of what they have and how to maximize the potential. Even dusty hay is valuable. #allhaymatters except mushroom  JD.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

OR was that tainted sent from the animals confinement pens whereas the air that comes from the manure and the urine in the animals pens filtrate into the hay in the loft.. that can create some negativity with the taste in the smell of the hay


----------



## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Vol said:


> Was that "tainted scent" similar to a tobacco scent? That sometimes happens even without mold or dusting....like if hay is dry and in correct moisture range, but humidity is high. I have never had it be a problem as all livestock that I have seen will readily consume the hay. I have also noticed that this seems more prevalent in Orchard grass. I am glad you appeased your consumer, which allows you to rightfully move on.
> 
> Regards, Mike
> 
> Edit; I would encourage him to try to get more air circulation. And if you sell to him again, I would be sure that he did not get any hay that was fresh out of the field....six weeks old or older might be a good thought.


I would agree that it smell like some old tobacco. I recognized the smell from past experiences. Fed it to the horses with no issues. I'll have to mention to him about the humidity and proper circulation.

Appreciate all the comments and suggestions.


----------



## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

endrow said:


> OR was that tainted sent from the animals confinement pens whereas the air that comes from the manure and the urine in the animals pens filtrate into the hay in the loft.. that can create some negativity with the taste in the smell of the hay


This is the second time I have heard this. The guy takes mine south asked if I was keeping animals downstairs and was worried about the bottom layer. Never noticed hay ever smelling off in all the years we milked but I suppose to an outsider it's possible they could pick up on it.

I believe storage is the worst thing that is beyond our control for customers that purchase hay direct from the field. They spend stupid money on their barns but don't think about storage ventilation. Had one customer that stored hay in a metal container cause we did not need her showing up at odd times of the day and helping herself to any hay, 3 at a time in a minivan. Well the bales went bad and was our fault. Even the vet said the hay was bad.


----------



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Tx Jim said:


> Ditto complaining about moldy hay 6-8 months after accepting deliver of hay would nor sit well with me.


 In all fairness though, my hay starts going into the barn in May or June, I might not start feeding it until the end of October/beginning of November. I know the hay was good going in but it might not be until then that I would discover I had some starting to mold.


----------

