# Keep it or move on?



## JD3430

So my '08 F-550 is coming up on that 100,000 mile mark. I've been getting some negative comments about my truck. Admittedly, they're mostly from "kids", 20-30 yr olds with lifted trucks with stacks telling me my 6.4L will grenade on me at any time. Lots of negative press on the 6&6.4L diesels, for obvious reasons. Not the most reliable engines for sure. It gets the job done fine, but I admit I don't have faith that if I really push it, something might let go. 
I actually like the rest of the truck. Roomy, handles well, love the transmission and built in trailer towing brake controller. Chassis is very tough and stable. Has 4WD, Tows like a rock. All my tools are on board. BUT I don't trust the engine. 
Trouble is, there's very few crew cab alternatives that can carry several people and I can park in my 8' garage at end of day. 
I extended the warranty as far as it could be extended (3 years) and that will expire April '15. After spring of 2015, I'm on my own. I've heard complete engine swaps costing $10,000+. 
I cannot buy a new truck NO WAY.

I sort of wish I could keep the truck, but have some kind of better assurance that the engine will go another 100k or more. I know that's impossible. I cannot buy a huge road tractor and small truck. It just won't work until my operation gets bigger. Gotta do it with one truck. 
Any reasonable suggestions for a truck that can handle 30-35k GCWR, haul 4-5 people, 4WD, and park in a 8' garage?


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## sethd11

Its really a toss up. 6.4s that get tuned and modified, then beat to sh** don't last long. However a good 6.4 recipe is to pull all environmental crap off, then only tune it for the deleted items and it will be a whole new animal. However my neigh or has a completely stock 6.4 from 08 and it has never been to the dealer, and pulls heavy loads to idling all day. You will have a big mileage jump from the egr and dpf delete, will be louder though. Seriously read through some Diesel Power articles pertaining to 6.4 and its vices. 
Why buy a new used truck when you know all the maintenance record's on yours. I wouldn't even think about selling such a nice reliable truck, especially if buying a new one would put me a huge bind. Just start a $150 a month payment program to yourself for the engine modifications for when the warranty is up. Just my 2 random, pre coffee, cents


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## Gearclash

From what I've read, the basic long block on the Ford 6.0 6.4 is reasonably solid. It's the emission stuff that causes things to go wrong. It seems that 6.0s that get deleted can last quite well, if they are run at somewhere near stock power levels. A comparable 2008 Dodge/Cummins 5500 has the Cummins 6.7 that I believe uses DEF.


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## somedevildawg

Keep it .....


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## JD3430

Gearclash said:


> From what I've read, the basic long block on the Ford 6.0 6.4 is reasonably solid. It's the emission stuff that causes things to go wrong. It seems that 6.0s that get deleted can last quite well, if they are run at somewhere near stock power levels. A comparable 2008 Dodge/Cummins 5500 has the Cummins 6.7 that I believe uses DEF.


I wouldn't mind a "sideways" move to a dodge 5500, but there's very few that come with the 33,000 GCWR package. I'm usually pulling ~30,0000. 
Also, I would think finding a dodge 5500 crew cab 4x4 in a similar price range would be like finding a needle in a haystack. 
That truck is probably the only viable alternative to my 550. I hear they're less troublesome, but by no means trouble free.

IS ANYONE ELSE RUNNING A 6.4L


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## Vol

I am driving a '01 GMC Duramax HD2500 crew cab....starting to feel it's age in the engine....313,000 miles....mileage not quite the same. I would not consider a vehicle right now with DEF.

I know where there is a '06 Duramax HD Crew with 21,000 that I am trying to buy that a hay customer of mine owns....he is older and slowing down and mentioned he might sell the truck before long. I told him when he got ready to call me....he said he would....hopeful.

You can never get ahead farming making truck payments with money that could be used for ag equipment when you are starting out.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin

JD3430 said:


> I wouldn't mind a "sideways" move to a dodge 5500, but there's very few that come with the 33,000 GCWR package. I'm usually pulling ~30,0000.
> Also, I would think finding a dodge 5500 crew cab 4x4 in a similar price range would be like finding a needle in a haystack.


Tell me about it, overtime I found a good one in the past it was either sold by time I called them or somebody was already looking at it. Found the one that got totaled over around Chicago, put a deposit to hold it until I could get there over the phone with my debit.


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## endrow

everybody's situation is different. Iwould never use a heavy truck like that for a daily driver. Four years ago I bought a 1997 chevy blazer in excellent condition for next to nothing. I have found in so many situations I can let my heavy trucks sit and use that. Ido know it is additional registration inspection insurance but I still think it's a waste to use a super heavy truck when you don't need it


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## ARD Farm

sethd11 said:


> Its really a toss up. 6.4s that get tuned and modified, then beat to sh** don't last long. However a good 6.4 recipe is to pull all environmental crap off, then only tune it for the deleted items and it will be a whole new animal. However my neigh or has a completely stock 6.4 from 08 and it has never been to the dealer, and pulls heavy loads to idling all day. You will have a big mileage jump from the egr and dpf delete, will be louder though. Seriously read through some Diesel Power articles pertaining to 6.4 and its vices.
> Why buy a new used truck when you know all the maintenance record's on yours. I wouldn't even think about selling such a nice reliable truck, especially if buying a new one would put me a huge bind. Just start a $150 a month payment program to yourself for the engine modifications for when the warranty is up. Just my 2 random, pre coffee, cents


I agree. Start a 'piggy bank account' for a reman. Lots cheaper than a payment. Just don't get in your 'Piggy Bank Account' like the politicians did with Social Security........ 

Been doing that with my car and have almost enough to buy new, cash now. I put aside 100 bucks a month in a 'slush fund account' at the credit union.


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## sethd11

I really don't drive that far anymore and if I do its just for hay or work related business. So no harm done running a f450 or f350. Plus when I have kids I'll feel better about them in the truck than a car.

Jd, I really think you should do some research on modifying your 6.4 instead of trading or selling a truck you know!


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## JD3430

I agree. 
It's not that bad driving around in a 550. No bigger that a 350 CC dually and it doesn't ride that much worse over bumps. Get some funny looks, but other than that, it feels like a beefed up pick up truck. 
Like the "slush fund" idea.
Maybe I'll do that instead of a Christmas club account lol

My Ford mechanic has been encouraging me to get rid of all the pollution crap, too. 
I'm just a nervous Nellie about getting caught....

Would love to put a banks electronic exhaust brake on it. Also gives a mild boost in performance. That would make it all the truck I'd ever want.


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## carcajou

FYI Up here in Alberta they recently announced that when your commercial vehicles come in for their annual inspection they will be looking for all the pollution " deletes"  ANY deletes, you fail your inspection. I'm sure that will happen south of the border sooner or later.


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## JD3430

endrow said:


> everybody's situation is different. Iwould never use a heavy truck like that for a daily driver. Four years ago I bought a 1997 chevy blazer in excellent condition for next to nothing. I have found in so many situations I can let my heavy trucks sit and use that. Ido know it is additional registration inspection insurance but I still think it's a waste to use a super heavy truck when you don't need it


I can sympathize with that POV. However, my 550 only gets 2 MPG less than my GMC 3500 1 ton got. It's not really that super heavy duty.


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## JD3430

Vol said:


> I am driving a '01 GMC Duramax HD2500 crew cab....starting to feel it's age in the engine....313,000 miles....mileage not quite the same. I would not consider a vehicle right now with DEF.
> 
> I know where there is a '06 Duramax HD Crew with 21,000 that I am trying to buy that a hay customer of mine owns....he is older and slowing down and mentioned he might sell the truck before long. I told him when he got ready to call me....he said he would....hopeful.
> 
> You can never get ahead farming making truck payments with money that could be used for ag equipment when you are starting out.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Mike I agree 100%. I have the title to my truck. Been paid off for years. I like it that way.


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## deadmoose

"The known evil is better than the unknown evil."

You know what to look out for on yours. By the time you figure the next one out you may be in the same boat. If your DIESEL cannot make 200 300 k plus you got hosed.

Keep it and take care of it. Check the oil regularly. I would bet a large percent of.blown engines come from low to no oil.


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## ARD Farm

JD3430 said:


> I agree.
> It's not that bad driving around in a 550. No bigger that a 350 CC dually and it doesn't ride that much worse over bumps. Get some funny looks, but other than that, it feels like a beefed up pick up truck.
> Like the "slush fund" idea.
> Maybe I'll do that instead of a Christmas club account lol
> 
> My Ford mechanic has been encouraging me to get rid of all the pollution crap, too.
> I'm just a nervous Nellie about getting caught....
> 
> Would love to put a banks electronic exhaust brake on it. Also gives a mild boost in performance. That would make it all the truck I'd ever want.


Banks Enginering (Gale Banks) is good stuff. I did my 97 F350 with evreything Banks from the ATA unit back in 1998 and have had no issues with any of it to date.... I'm all about longevity in aftermarket parts. Banks (IMO from my exprience is heads above the rest. Thats unsolicited btw..... :mellow:



carcajou said:


> FYI Up here in Alberta they recently announced that when your commercial vehicles come in for their annual inspection they will be looking for all the pollution " deletes" ANY deletes, you fail your inspection. I'm sure that will happen south of the border sooner or later.


Maybe, but fatmers will be exempt.........  I pulled evrything long ago, the motor is much happier, so am I.



deadmoose said:


> "The known evil is better than the unknown evil."
> 
> You know what to look out for on yours. By the time you figure the next one out you may be in the same boat. If your DIESEL cannot make 200 300 k plus you got hosed.
> 
> Keep it and take care of it. Check the oil regularly. *I would bet a large percent of.blown engines come from low to no oil.*


..or extending the change interval and winging it...thats not me. Diesels need good lubrication, even more so than a gas engine


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## ARD Farm

I change my oil in my 97 yearly and do a spectroanalysis and of course they always tell me I could run it many miles farther, however, I only use the truck for the goosenck hauling hay, it's put to bed with the tractors and gets maybe, I say maybe 2000 miles yearly, but I change it every fall because I don't want all the contaminants sitting in the pan all winter....

and yep, it goes like hell, but I did all the engine stuff for pulling without guzzling...diesel. How about 21.5 unladen and 18 pulling fully loaded?


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## sethd11

Yah I'll never see 18 unloaded going down hill with a tailwind driving 45 mph. Not sure what kinda crap you gotta under the hood but I'm lucky to see 12 with summer petro. 14mpg on the f350 empty.

Back on topic. Apparently 6.4s with emission deletes get extremely good mileage. Pretty exciting news for Jd


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## hillside hay

Definitely keep it and start the repair or replace fund.


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## Bgriffin856

JD3430 said:


> I've been getting some negative comments about my truck. Admittedly, they're mostly from "kids", 20-30 yr olds with lifted trucks with stacks telling me my 6.4L will grenade on me at any time.


Yeah that mommy and daddy paid for and they ("kids") don't know the first thing about a diesel or how to care for it. Keep it and run it till it won't go no more. Heck I would think 100k is just breaking it in

Side note, I see very few lifted diesels with stacks actually used for work. How much abuse could use cause in a 100k to make an engine grenade? Operator makes all the difference. ..


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## rjmoses

My policy is run them 'til they start breaking. Make note of first repair over $2000, then start tracking. Second repair, start looking. When it feels like third repair is coming, get rid of it!

Now, I am assuming routine maintenance, etc. and incidental replacements, like tires, go on all the time.

I was looking at a "best" trucks list on yahoo the other day and saw that the higher end 3/4 and 1 tons are now going for $50-75K! No way, Jose!

Ralph


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## Vol

I saw my first 2015 Colorado mid-sized truck(4wd crewcab,V6, Auto) by Chevrolet yesterday at the dealership. It looked really sharp, it is probably approx.15% larger than a Tacoma, slightly better mileage than the Tacoma(17/24), very nice interior with more than ample headroom. Motor sets down deep to give better center of gravity and handling. The bed is as deep as a typical full sized truck. Had a very, very nice profile with the way it sits "a little up" on the chasis. MSRP of $36,000 including delivery.

The diesel version comes out next year......I want to see the 2015 GMC version called Canyon.

Regards, Mike

I just looked and the Tacoma gets 16/21 using EPA figures.


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## MT hayer

I would sure agree with the majority of keeping it. There are several out this way that did the delete and the low setting on the chip. Makes a good pickup out of them. I can understand the concern about the inspection. Don't have that out here.

I learn a little more about diesel pickups everyday. Just because it is a diesel, doesn't mean it needs 15/40. The tolerances of these engines are way tighter then an old D8 Caterpillar or a 6 71 Detroit. I run a 6.0 liter and the lighter the oil the better it runs. It has 190 some on it. No chip on it, and it isn't a big power house, but it always runs!

I don't see any reason it won't go another 100k. The 6.4 runs 5w/20 oil anyway? Use good oil, Ford filters, I had two aftermarket ones come apart, and get rid of the emissions so it can breath!


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## matador

Keep it. I only have one vehicle with less than 100k, and it's considered a "classic" to some.

I have a daily driver, though. I can't afford the fuel- my commute is about 90 miles per day.

Try to buy a good truck for less than $10,000 plus trade-in value.

I'd keep the truck, set some money aside, and consider buying a cheap "clunker" if you run the odometer up a lot with daily driving.

Just make sure to take care of it. The operator will determine lifespan.


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## JD3430

I only drive about 13k/yr. used to do more like 18k/yr. 
my son is coming up on 16 and I thought this might be a good time to get another vehicle, but nothing makes much sense to me other than another diesel truck. 
Was thinking about a used 1 ton 4x4 diesel. ~20k with a snowplow.


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## slowzuki

Talk to some fleet managers. I don't know the $ to get them there but the utility companies are auctioning F550 6.4's with 200-300K miles on them. I can't recall exactly but don't the cab chassis models have a different turbo and engine tune due to less restricted emissions? I know I've heard the cc have much different problems than the pickup versions.

For 13K a year I'd consider a gas truck when you're looking unless they don't hit the tow numbers. They usually are almost 800 lb lighter up front, important when running a big plow on them.


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## JD3430

slowzuki said:


> Talk to some fleet managers. I don't know the $ to get them there but the utility companies are auctioning F550 6.4's with 200-300K miles on them. I can't recall exactly but don't the cab chassis models have a different turbo and engine tune due to less restricted emissions? I know I've heard the cc have much different problems than the pickup versions.
> 
> For 13K a year I'd consider a gas truck when you're looking unless they don't hit the tow numbers. They usually are almost 800 lb lighter up front, important when running a big plow on them.


It will be used to tow 20k, so I'd prefer to stay with diesel, but I will keep eyes open to alternatives. 
Would love to have a dodge/cummins beforeim too old to enjoy.


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## carcajou

Not sure if all the Dodge TV commercials are the same south of us but it seems they hired an old GM guy to design at least one ad. It shows a backhoe dumping a hoe bucket full of material right into the bed of a ram from about 6' above the truck bed. Anyone that paid for their truck would not that stupid.

Myself i would explore changing your truck over to an 8.3 Cummins before your 6.4 needs big $$$ in repairs..

I don't understand the logic for buying a newer one ton to pull a heavy gooseneck trailer. They are just too expensive to afford in the long run. A used single axle yard tractor can be bought for next to nothing and will run for 20 years or more. Leave it hooked to the trailer it will never get mile'd out.


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## JD3430

carcajou said:


> Not sure if all the Dodge TV commercials are the same south of us but it seems they hired an old GM guy to design at least one ad. It shows a backhoe dumping a hoe bucket full of material right into the bed of a ram from about 6' above the truck bed. Anyone that paid for their truck would not that stupid.
> 
> Myself i would explore changing your truck over to an 8.3 Cummins before your 6.4 needs big $$$ in repairs..
> 
> I don't understand the logic for buying a newer one ton to pull a heavy gooseneck trailer. They are just too expensive to afford in the long run. A used single axle yard tractor can be bought for next to nothing and will for 20 years or more. Leave it hooked to the trailer it will never get mile'd out.


The logic is that I can get a second truck to plow snow and let my some use on occasion so he doesn't ask to borrow mine.
I cannot plow snow in a practical sense with a road tractor or allow a 16 yr old boy to drive a road tractor to practice or to a friends place once in a while.


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## PaMike

Do you really want a 16 year old running an expensive diesel pickup? Buy him a 2k beater car. He runs a stop sign in a diesel pickup he will kill someone.


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## carcajou

PaMike said:


> Do you really want a 16 year old running an expensive diesel pickup? Buy him a 2k beater car. He runs a stop sign in a diesel pickup he will kill someone.


I agree. Also most kids don't really respect the 1st car or truck they get. When they have to pay out of their pocket for the second one they seem a little more inclined to check the oil and watch the tires.

Here insurance for young drivers is quite high and i could not risk putting them on my insurance lest they get into an accident. They all got older used vehicles and we did not bother with collision insurance. The savings alone in the first two years more than paid for the vehicles.

JD my comment about one ton trucks and heavy gooseneck trailers was in general. But believe me if that was the only truck available it wouldn't matter.

A long time ago i was custom spraying for a Hutterite colony and was rained out. Rather than take my water truck back to my farm i left it in their yard and went home. When i picked it up i noticed it was out of fuel and figured the young boys syphoned it off for there dirt bikes. ( They all have them even if they are not allowed to) Anyway a few days later a friend caught up with me and was laughing, telling me he watched my water truck drive up and down main street all friday night crammed full of young Hutterites. There was $20,000 worth of Chemicals in that truck but it was all accounted for. I never let on that i knew.


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## PaMike

I am young enough to remember the things that went on in my youth...


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## JD3430

I said borrow it, not own it. It's not going to be a NEW truck. It will likely be a 10 yr old diesel pickup with over 100k on it. 
Yes, my son is very careful and responsible and if he wanted to borrow it once in a while, I'm ok with that. I don't want him borrowing my 550 or my wife's Tahoe. 
I not buying it primarily for him, I'm buying it primarily for my winter plowing business and as a backup for what will probably become a very unreliable 6.4L ford for work. Third purpose will be for my sons occasional use.

PAMike,
I'd rather have my son surrounded by heavy steel, than put him in a $2,000 tin can and have HIM get killed.
If it comes down to someone in my family or someone else, I'll protect my family every time.
He's very responsible and I have a lot of confidence that he won't be running red lights and killing people.


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## slowzuki

Just remember if its just him leaving the road and hitting something stronger/heavier than the truck, cars tend to do much better than 10 year old trucks. The rigid frame tended to damage the occupants. Its also why it is so annoying to put snowplows on 1/2 tons now with all the frame crush zone stuff.


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## JD3430

I'll take the 1ton 4x4 over the tin can 24/7.


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## Bgriffin856

I saw some place advertising all kinds of remans and pumps, generators and power units and such. Not sure if they had 6.4's or not but did noticed 7.3's. I look and see if I can get some info


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## somedevildawg

Don't worry Bout the 6.4 so much, have a friend that has one and it has 235k miles on the odometer, no telling how many run hours. With the mods, the engine is a good one, maybe even consider the 6.0 with mods.....can buy em cheap. With the 6.4 you still have fuel mileage issues, and the fact that its loud (16 yr old would probably like that) but its a solid engine with mods. 
How much you looking to spend JD? Thought about a 7.3?


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## sethd11

Problem with a 7.3 for jd is the lower power issue. He would have to buy a f550 or f450 and then soup it up to haul what he hauls consistently. Although at least the 7.3 is extraordinarily reliable. Plus a 4r100 transmission would never keep up reliably. I would buy one in a heartbeat and soup it up again.


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## somedevildawg

sethd11 said:


> Problem with a 7.3 for jd is the lower power issue. He would have to buy a f550 or f450 and then soup it up to haul what he hauls consistently. Although at least the 7.3 is extraordinarily reliable. Plus a 4r100 transmission would never keep up reliably. I would buy one in a heartbeat and soup it up again.


I thought he was just going to use to do snow plowing and the occasional pull.....although I agree, the 7.3 is much better hopped up and still super reliable.
Few days ago I was moving about 18k of equipment going down the interstate and a idler pulley decides to fail.....belt stayed on miraculously, but right at the exit was an advance, they had it in stock and it was 9:45pm.....took 20 min the change it out put the belt back on and get on down the road with the load......hard to beat that.....and she has 380k on the clock, original tranny.....knock on wood
Hard to beat that 7.3.....course it has a problem with all them particulates.


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## JD3430

I've owned several 7.3's in the past and put many miles on them.
Problem is, even the very last 7.3s are now almost 13 years old. Plus the 4R100 was barely up to the task.
I'm going to take my time and look for a clean dodge, GM or maybe another ford. 
Just want to own a reg cab dodge cummins for once.


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## AaronQ

i wouldnt worry much about the 6.4L

they have a decent bottom end on em and really arent to troublesome overall, every truck line from every manufacturer has bad units, remember how many thousands of injectors and head gaskets ford had to put into the 6.0L?

the thing ive seen the most with the 6.4 is injectors get a tip that starts failing and the cracking pressure starts to drop off so they will pour a little fuel all the time and it ends up taking the cross hatch out of the cylinders and then your into for a rebuild.

otherwise they're fairly solid as long as you dont have a chip on em turned up to retard mode.

if it was me and i'd had the truck for a few years trouble free and it still has extended warranty, take a bottle of whiskey to the best mechanic at the dealership. have em check the balance rate and leak down pressure on all the injectors, check the FICM, check lift pump pressure. then run like your on fire if its all good.

once the warranty is off pull the egr,dpf, throw an intake and a turbo back exhaust kit on it. H&S makes a really decent tuner for those units too. nothing against banks and edge but all they can touch is an engine, H&S you can do some pretty amazing stuff on the whole truck itselt.

throw the tuner on, set default gauges on it for pyro, boost, tranny temp, air intake temp and fuel trim rates. look around online and see where the happy zones are for all of em and let'er buck.

even if you dont do any mods get a pyrometer on that thing. if your doing that much pulling you should at least know what your EGTs are. to much heat=to much wear.

like someone said earlier, if its yours and you know where its been its worth a ton.

Also for a side note, with the H&S tuner you can install a fuel dump mode so the thing will roll coal like no tommorw. kinda useless but its kinda fun once in a while at an intersection beside a jerk with his window open haha.


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## shortrow

Keep it. If I had sold my 6.0 every time someone ragged on me about it..............it would've been gone 10 yrs. ago. Maintenance is where it's at with these trucks.


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## endrow

Complimentary lunch at the farm store this week .This crowd is not concerned with maintenance issues on 6 liter Fords


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## JD3430

shortrow said:


> Keep it. If I had sold my 6.0 every time someone ragged on me about it..............it would've been gone 10 yrs. ago. Maintenance is where it's at with these trucks.


You really do have to separate fact from hype. 
A Ford diesel mechanic has told me CLEAN fuel & oil and on-time filter changes make a big difference. He has a couple 6.4s with 300k under his care and he has also seen a few with big problems with under 80k on them. 
I hauled hay all week with it and no problems.


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## Mark13

I only read part of the thread so I'm sorry if I missed things.

Tune and delete your 6.4 as soon as you can. Each day you leave it factory you shorten it's life span.

Spartan tune, flo pro delete pipe, egr block, and you'll be set. An intake isn't a bad idea but it's not a necessary item.

The 6.4's are stupid tough when tuned/deleted and driven responsibly. In factory form with the regen process and the dpf they're unreliable and prone to failure. During regen cylinders #7&8 are used to get diesel into the exhaust to help burn the filter clean in the dpf. Sometimes 2-3 gallons of diesel will be injected into those 2 cylinders over the regen process to get the dpf hot enough to burn clean. The diesel is injected while the exhaust valve is open, some of it gets past the piston rings and into the oil though. Ford says 2-3 quarts of diesel in the engine oil every for every oil change is normal.  This regen process also causes the exhaust gas temp to be very high, sometimes in the 15-1600* range for extended intervals until the regen process is over.

With the emissions equipment deleted the truck doesn't have to deal with the excess diesel in the crank case thinning out the oil or the high egt's for extended periods of time making everything last much longer. You'll probably notice an increase of 1-2 mpg as well with the tuning (pickups usually gain 2-5mpg). The truck will run better, be more responsive, driveability will improve, and longevity of the motor will increase. Not to say there isn't damage done by the regen process already but the longer you let it go the worse it will get.

Fyi, a 6.4 long block from Ford is around 16 grand...


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## HALLSHAY

I bought a loaded up used 2010 f-550 Lariat this summer with a 6.4. I am finishing a 32' enclosed (conestoga tarp) self-unloading trailer to haul 7-8 ton loads. The pickup only has 64k on it and I figured I wouldn't have to do much for a few years. About 3 weeks ago I pulled it out of the 50 degree shop into -10 temps. After about 5 minutes outside it just straight up dies! Pulled it right back into the shop thinking there was no way it gelled. New filters and cranked no start. Had a buddy come scan it and there were seven codes and a burnt fuse. Replaced the fuse and it instantly popped again as soon as the key was turned on. Long story short, high pressure fuel pump cover gasket with integrated wires had rubbed and shorted on the pump.(common problem i guess) Where is the pump? Under the turbos, under the firewall. Called the local dealer who was trying to sell me a 70k new pickup.(mad I didn't buy from them) The Ford service manual says CAB OFF repair 12 hours. I tell them the problem and ask what it cost when you have to do a cab off procedure and he plays dumb that he is not sure but it would probably be 2500-3000 to start. I started searching youtube and forums and found some people saying it could be done cab on but it is a BITCH! Well, I just finished yesterday and it took me about 14hrs total to tear apart and fix cab on. I bought 2 gasket kits (hpfp cover and turbo) and 2 new fuel lines for about $500. Test drove yesterday down the highway for a few miles. No problem going out of town. Turned around and eased up to about 40mph and then started to get on it. Turbo psi was about 25-30 when all of a sudden BOOM! F**********K i thought I blew a turbo or a rod through the side of the block. Luckily it was the charge air cooler tube that we didn't tighten enough blowing off like a shotgun. Everything is great now except I should have done what Mark13 said and delete and tune.

Pictures of my trailer coming soon. We should finish the floor today.


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## Mark13

I saw that truck online and considered looking at it Hallshay!

Cab off on those trucks isn't as terrible as it sounds if you have a safe way of lifting it. My buddy's shop averages 2-3 a week.

Look familiar?



The 550 I picked up instead.


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## HALLSHAY

That's the one! Funny! Your truck is very nice looking.


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## JD3430

Here's my issue
I really like truck CHASSIS and the transmission and the interior, its just the motor scares the crap out of me.
I don't like the Idea of taking off the pollution equipment because I go through truck inspections along the road. Never know when they might start checking for that sort of thing.


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## Bonfire

JD3430 said:


> Here's my issue
> I really like truck CHASSIS and the transmission and the interior, its just the motor scares the crap out of me.
> I don't like the Idea of taking off the pollution equipment because I go through truck inspections along the road. Never know when they might start checking for that sort of thing.


It makes me nervous as well. I have an 07 Dodge I haven't taken anything off of. The DPF was replaced under warranty. Terrible mileage. These emmision inspections are too close to home now. Northern Va and Hampton Roads have emmision inspections. I think they plug into your vehicle and look to see that all emmison systems are "ready". Being in PA would make me more nervous about deleting it.

You can read on different forums where people talk about deleting their vehicles and putting a tuner on it. What's to stop the EPA Gestapo from looking these people up and doing an inspection?


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## JD3430

Bonfire said:


> It makes me nervous as well. I have an 07 Dodge I haven't taken anything off of. The DPF was replaced under warranty. Terrible mileage. These emmision inspections are too close to home now. Northern Va and Hampton Roads have emmision inspections. I think they plug into your vehicle and look to see that all emmison systems are "ready". Being in PA would make me more nervous about deleting it.


Why so? We don't have any diesel emissions laws in PA.



> You can read on different forums where people talk about deleting their vehicles and putting a tuner on it. What's to stop the EPA Gestapo from looking these people up and doing an inspection?


I fear the same thing.
Wait......is that a black helicopter flying over my house????. Lol


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## Mark13

JD3430 said:


> Here's my issue
> I really like truck CHASSIS and the transmission and the interior, its just the motor scares the crap out of me.
> I don't like the Idea of taking off the pollution equipment because I go through truck inspections along the road. Never know when they might start checking for that sort of thing.





Bonfire said:


> It makes me nervous as well. I have an 07 Dodge I haven't taken anything off of. The DPF was replaced under warranty. Terrible mileage. These emmision inspections are too close to home now. Northern Va and Hampton Roads have emmision inspections. I think they plug into your vehicle and look to see that all emmison systems are "ready". Being in PA would make me more nervous about deleting it.
> 
> You can read on different forums where people talk about deleting their vehicles and putting a tuner on it. What's to stop the EPA Gestapo from looking these people up and doing an inspection?


The computers of the trucks will still read fine and show everything as "ready" even with the trucks tuned/deleted. Only a visual inspection will reveal that some factory parts fell off. Seems like for the most part unless you're making the truck smoke a lot, driving aggressively, or other behavior that draws their attention toward you that you probably will be in the clear. Most commercial trucks a delete pipe is used so the factory tail pipe remains with the dual tips and unless someone crawls under the truck or notices soot at the exhaust tip they'd assume it to be factory still.



JD3430 said:


> Why so? We don't have any diesel emissions laws in PA.
> 
> I fear the same thing.
> Wait......is that a black helicopter flying over my house????. Lol


I wouldn't worry about them tracking you backwards through your previous purchases. If they get to the point of tracking down single vehicles through purchases they really need something better to do. I could see if you had a big fleet of trucks and they knew you were removing emissions equipment and tuning the trucks to smoke excessively but for what you're doing I wouldn't worry about it. It would be like you downloading a couple songs or a movie illegally and suddenly them showing up to question you and take all your electronics. They've got bigger fish to fry then little stuff like this.


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## JD3430

One of the better mechanics I know told me basically if he removes it, he'll make sure it passes inspections and I think he saves the parts just in case.


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## Mark13

JD3430 said:


> One of the better mechanics I know told me basically if he removes it, he'll make sure it passes inspections and I think he saves the parts just in case.


Definitely don't pitch the stuff in the scrap pile. Throw the dpf up in the rafters or something in case it's ever needed. Also be sure to seal the plugs up under the truck well so they don't corrode and go to hell from the road salt and dirt/mud.


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## somedevildawg

Nice looking 550's guys....I think I might have seen hallshay truck as I've been looking for one as well....I ain't skeered of em but I woulda crapped my pants if the same had happened to me.....new government motors trucks are cab off for lots of repairs probably easier to deal with in the long run....enjoy those 550's wish I had one as well.


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## somedevildawg

@ hallshay, any pics of the trailer your working on, would really like to c ur idea, thinking about the same thing.....


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## JD3430

I think I'll roll the dice and keep my 550.
We are considering a second diesel farm truck in the next 6-12 months and it'll be a dodge.


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## sethd11

I helped my uncle pull his 4 door cab on his 2007 6.0 f550. Took about hour first time/no rust either. Ultra easy and awesome. Must have a 2 post or 4 post lift and goes up easy.

Those are sharp f550s. I love those 19.5 alcoas. If you guys come out one day and its sitting on steelies, the Alcoa's got put on my truck. Lol


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## JD3430

I'd love to get rid of my steelies and get some 'Coas.


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## deadmoose

JD3430 said:


> I think I'll roll the dice and keep my 550.
> We are considering a second diesel farm truck in the next 6-12 months and it'll be a dodge.


Finally stepping up to a dodge. Good for you.


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## JD3430

Yeah I want town one before I die. I drove one new in ~2000. The experience was really cool. I loved the way the truck felt. 
This one will have to be a used truck.


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## Mark13

JD3430 said:


> I think I'll roll the dice and keep my 550.
> We are considering a second diesel farm truck in the next 6-12 months and it'll be a dodge.


Tune/Delete your 550 and keep it.

Depending what year dodge you're looking at those can be worse.

This is a 2011 or 2012 (don't remember). I racked up 900-950 miles this summer hauling this truck around because it was broke. If I had to go get it out of kansas when it broke there too I'd have considerably more miles added up because it failed. It was down for a couple weeks each time which game me all the loads it was supposed to haul, in June and part of July I put on almost 9,000 miles hauling the loads that truck should have. Overall the truck being down cost them probably enough to buy 1/3-1/2 of a new truck between repair costs and paying me to do the trucking instead.

Around 70k miles, Aisin trans failed (friends 07.5 had his Aisin go out around 70k too) About 5-10,000miles after that the DEF pump went out, I think their bill for that was just under $2500. It also goes through steer tires like you wouldn't believe. Not bad for a few year old truck with under 100k on it. From talking to them it sounds like earlier on in it's life it was well known at the dealer too for random problems.







sethd11 said:


> I helped my uncle pull his 4 door cab on his 2007 6.0 f550. Took about hour first time/no rust either. Ultra easy and awesome. Must have a 2 post or 4 post lift and goes up easy.
> 
> Those are sharp f550s. I love those 19.5 alcoas. If you guys come out one day and its sitting on steelies, the Alcoa's got put on my truck. Lol


The 19.5 Alcoa's look sharp. I spec'd out a new gooseneck too with 15k axles and realized alcoa makes 17.5" trailer wheels that will match the alcoa's on my 550. I think it would look pretty good rolling down the road.


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## JD3430

Wow, that makes my worries feel miniscule. I thought dodges were supposed to be bullet proof and fords had all the problems.


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## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> Wow, that makes my worries feel miniscule. I thought dodges were supposed to be bullet proof and fords had all the problems.


That was the dodge folks that talk that crap.....they're a bit, well...dodgey with the facts. I swore off dodge in '84 and never looked back, kinda tickled me when you said in a earlier post you wanted to get one, I started to chime in then but figured wth everyone has to learn that lesson on their own. I would buy one but it would be at least 8-12 yrs old....couldn't lose much on that one.


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> Wow, that makes my worries feel miniscule. I thought dodges were supposed to be bullet proof and fords had all the problems.


As in ALL things....farm machinery included....there is not a single long term manufacturer out there that has not produced its share of mishaps.....especially in automotive.....after all, it is made by mankind.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

somedevildawg said:


> That was the dodge folks that talk that crap.....they're a bit, well...dodgey with the facts. I swore off dodge in '84 and never looked back, kinda tickled me when you said in a earlier post you wanted to get one, I started to chime in then but figured wth everyone has to learn that lesson on their own. I would buy one but it would be at least 8-12 yrs old....couldn't lose much on that one.


That's what I will buy, a used one that's less complex.
BTW, I also up until 2 year ago, owned a very good GMC 3500 dmax/allison 4WD. I put 100,000 miles on it in 5 years and it hardly needed anything. Never should have sold it, but had to to buy farming equipment. 
I won't count out GM, but I don't like their bailout and involvement with Obama.


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> I won't count out GM, but I don't like their bailout and involvement with Obama.


Truthfully JD, the bailout for GM began under W Bush....

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Vol said:


> Truthfully JD, the bailout for GM began under W Bush....
> 
> Regards, Mike


Oh, I know that, but Obama ran a campaign of false promises and accomplishments and one of them was the "GM is alive....." (Supposedly thanks to Obama) 
Therefore, I'm pretty down on GM.


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## Vol

JD3430 said:


> Oh, I know that, but Obama ran a campaign of false promises and accomplishments and one of them was the "GM is alive....." (Supposedly thanks to Obama)
> Therefore, I'm pretty down on GM.


You are saying that you are "pretty down on GM" because of what obama said?

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Vol said:


> You are saying that you are "pretty down on GM" because of what obama said?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Partly, yes. I believe Obama was re elected through a series of lies

"If you like your doctor" lie
And the lie that Obama (solely) saved GM.

I don't like the fact that he was involved in the bailout of GM. I know Bush started it, but Obama fully embraced it and pimped it to no end.
I never liked the GM bailout. it wasn't fair to Ford. ford did everything the right way and got no money. They got screwed because our government picks winners and losers as it always does.
My form of protest. 
I wouldn't walk away from a great deal on a GM, but Ford or Dodge would be prefererred.

On edit: I probably couldn't buy a GM anyway, they don't make a truck comparable to the Ford F-550


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## Vol

Ford holds its hand out just like all the others.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080500905.html

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

That's a completely different scenario there Mike, comparing apples to oranges. That whole electric vehicle push was a completely different deal than the other, if the gov is handing out money to the likes of GM, Chrysler, solyndra (sp), and all the other worthless programs I wouldn't say that's the same as "too big to fail" and we have to have the money to stay in business.....and then hire back the guy they fired (that ran the company in the ground) as a consultant for 20k an hour, and then repeatedly say they had paid the money back and it was a proven lie.....that's what bugs the hell out if me about GM. Had they been honest and handled their business correctly I too would be a buyer, but it put a sour taste in my mouth, so much so that I'm not sure if I'll ever buy another GM vehicle. That may be petty on my part but I didn't like it and it has nothing to do with our president but rather their CEO. If I was the CEO of ford or Chrysler and they're giving away money to the other companies for research and development of electrics, there's no way I'm gonna let my shareholders take the hit for R&D when other companies are getting it paid for with grants and funny money, that would be negligent.

Regardless of how one feels about the bailout, the fact that Ford elected to tighten the belt and leverage themselves and had not pissed away their profits of the last 80-90 years gives me a reason to buy Ford. They blamed it on the economy.....bullcrap, GM has been in business how many years? Reckon there were other times when the economy went to hell in a handbasket and they managed to survive....they had mismanaged the company and paid people millions of dollars to mismanage it, then they cry wolf.....just pissed me off, but the lies is what got me. GM has always made good vehicles, like you said, no one is immune from producing some flops but the way that deal went down just rubbed me the wrong way.


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## Vol

somedevildawg said:


> That's a completely different scenario there Mike, comparing apples to oranges.


I never said it was the same as the GM bailout......I said "Ford holds its hand out just like all the others" which they have done.....accepting "grant" money at tax payer expense. I guess it comes down to what one perceives as justifiable.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430

Vol said:


> I never said it was the same as the GM bailout......I said "Ford hold its hand out just like all the others" which they have done.....accepting "grant" money at tax payer expense. I guess it comes down to what one perceives as justifiable.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Accepting grant money doesn't leave me with as bad of a perception of Ford as GMs huge bailout. Like comparing David and Goliath.


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## somedevildawg

Agreed mike.....i think they and US dropped the ball way back in about 1974 when we knew this was a problem facing our nation for the foreseeable future. Instead we dug a hole and stuck our heads into the sand. In hindsight I would've like to seen someone put a gas tax that could be put into one of those damn lock boxes (lol) and dedicated for alternative fuels research. If we had done that then, we wouldn't be having this problem now, we would be well ahead of the curve, instead we haven't even made it to the curve. But thats what happens when you use kneejerk reactions to problems that manifest themselves over years. As much as i liked RR, he did'nt do anything about it either, its as if they thought it was gonna fix itself. That is why it's important to elect LEADERS that can tackle the hard initiatives instead of what's popular or as they call it now....trending


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## JD3430

GM also gave a lot of power and ownership to unions that Ford never did. Ford also probably would have survived without the electric car grant money. Clearly GM was a dead duck without a taxpayer funded bailout. Getting a little off topic though.


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## deadmoose

somedevildawg said:


> Agreed mike.....i think they and US dropped the ball way back in about 1974 when we knew this was a problem facing our nation for the foreseeable future. Instead we dug a hole and stuck our heads into the sand. In hindsight I would've like to seen someone put a gas tax that could be put into one of those damn lock boxes (lol) and dedicated for alternative fuels research. If we had done that then, we wouldn't be having this problem now, we would be well ahead of the curve, instead we haven't even made it to the curve. But thats what happens when you use kneejerk reactions to problems that manifest themselves over years.


How would this be any better than the creation of the Department of Energy?

Any government solution is bound for failure and corruption.


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## somedevildawg

deadmoose said:


> How would this be any better than the creation of the Department of Energy?
> Any government solution is bound for failure and corruption.


Well I can't argue that......

But it is the governments job to foresee things like that, the writing was clearly on the walls. "The world is running out of oil" "there's a finite supply of oil" all of these were spelled out to us in great detail during those years. But since you bring up the department of energy, that's exactly where the blame should lie, as well as each and every citizen. We were all culpable. As soon as OPEC started easing up and we got cheap oil, it was as if the world had plenty of oil and it was an infinite supply. We started making vehicles that customer (us) wanted, and who can blame us, the crap the big three were making during the years of 73-80 were absolute junk. But there was no alternative fuel initiatives. This clearly fell under the dept of energy but the Prez dictates those policies and how much emphasis they place on a certain agenda......clearly we dropped the ball.

Setting policy is something no one else BUT the gov can do......


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## Bonfire

Mark13 said:


> The computers of the trucks will still read fine and show everything as "ready" even with the trucks tuned/deleted. Only a visual inspection will reveal that some factory parts fell off. Seems like for the most part unless you're making the truck smoke a lot, driving aggressively, or other behavior that draws their attention toward you that you probably will be in the clear. Most commercial trucks a delete pipe is used so the factory tail pipe remains with the dual tips and unless someone crawls under the truck or notices soot at the exhaust tip they'd assume it to be factory still.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about them tracking you backwards through your previous purchases. If they get to the point of tracking down single vehicles through purchases they really need something better to do. I could see if you had a big fleet of trucks and they knew you were removing emissions equipment and tuning the trucks to smoke excessively but for what you're doing I wouldn't worry about it. It would be like you downloading a couple songs or a movie illegally and suddenly them showing up to question you and take all your electronics. They've got bigger fish to fry then little stuff like this.


Looks like it's happening in Canada. Saw this in another forum, Page 11, post 121.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07-5-09-3rd-gen-6-7l-performance-parts-discussion/337081-all-deletes-canada-ontarios-drive-clean-emissions-test-11.html


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## somedevildawg

Finally bit the bullet on a "new" one today....not about to retire the 7.3 however...


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## Vol

somedevildawg said:


> Finally bit the bullet on a "new" one today....not about to retire the 7.3 however...


Well shoot man....tell us about it....where the pics?

Regards, Mike


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## Mark13

Bonfire said:


> Looks like it's happening in Canada. Saw this in another forum, Page 11, post 121.
> 
> http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/07-5-09-3rd-gen-6-7l-performance-parts-discussion/337081-all-deletes-canada-ontarios-drive-clean-emissions-test-11.html


I read through the last couple pages of that thread and I still find it hard to believe that they'd randomly select his pickup for an emissions test if he was just cruising down the highway doing nothing wrong. That would be like one of us driving down the road, doing the speed limit, seat belt on, not talking on the phone, etc and getting stopped to see why the pickup has farm plates on it then them questioning the transfer tank and whatever is in the bed. Generally there has to be something to trigger their interest in your specifically. Maybe his truck smoked some or was excessively loud while passing another vehicle, could be something he didn't even realize happened but figures they pin pointed him for no reason.


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## somedevildawg

Already had a DEF blunder.....ain't had it a day. Mind you the truck hasn't been "delivered" to me yet, it's used like everything I buy but I took it to Augusta (180miles) last nite, on way I had noticed warnings about DEF being low (220mi) but figured wth I'll find a station with pumps....coming home at midnite I stop at 3 different truck stops on I-16, no DEF, none.....so I go to the next town of size and find a station with high speed diesel pumps 4 of them.....no DEF, none.....so i detour (now says 60mi) to a Wally World and back in the auto section 1 carton of true blu DEF, guy had no idea if the had it or what it was.....so I managed to avert the 50mile an hour limit when running out of DEF....but barely

Ain't got no pic right yet mike....2014. 44k miles 1 ton dually flatbed


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## JD3430

44k miles on a 2014?


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## Vol

Well good for you Todd. What color is it? You and the little woman can have you a outdoor picnic on it late one evening....take a little table and some comfortable lawn chairs, a good bottle of vino, some cheese, and some bread.....star gaze a little....maybe act like teenagers a little bit. 

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

JD3430 said:


> 44k miles on a 2014?


Think it was an early production 14...said the guy traded every two years.



Vol said:


> Well good for you Todd. What color is it? You and the little woman can have you a outdoor picnic on it late one evening....take a little table and some comfortable lawn chairs, a good bottle of vino, some cheese, and some bread.....star gaze a little....maybe act like teenagers a little bit.
> 
> Regards, Mike


May be why I bought it....took the ms out to the hunting land the other nite and watched the meteor showers.....some Chardonnay, cheese, binos and acting.....got kinda attached to her at that point!

Color, not sure what they call it but dark brown metallic with lighter brown at bottom.....my preference was white but I'm not too hung up on color, interior color yes, not so much outside......just didn't really want black interior for obvious reasons.


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## somedevildawg

Got to looking at my phone and damned if I didn't snap a pic, try to get some better ones after they deliver it to me.....had to put some shoes on it and detail, pick it up tomorrow....


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## Vol

Very nice.....tan interior?

Regards, Mike


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## somedevildawg

Yea, tan and brown interior.....thanks, I like it.....got tired of lookin at em tho, watched a 11 with 367k miles sell for 25k figured I wasn't gonna steal one....although I almost bought one that was stolen....found out at the 11th hour it was stolen, took 9 days to get the cops in Florida to call me back, by then he had sold it to some unsuspecting customer.....I told the detective they need a Hotline for folks to call, ridiculous. This guy was 24 and had been arrested four times for grand theft, imagine that......damn revolving door down there


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## AaronQ

looks good bud, didnt smoke off the old rubber before you swapped?


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## somedevildawg

You know I did manage to burn a bit off........figured I was playing with house money


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