# To cut or not to cut alfalfa



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

How often should I be looking to cut my alfalfa? I read a lot about cutting every 30 days. At this point what stage is the alfalfa in? It will be 30 days tomorrow since I cut mine and there is no blooms and some plants if you look real close you can find a couple tiny bloom buds enclosed in leaves. This will be the second cut on this stand......the first cut was made more or less full bloom.

The reason I ask is a weather window has opened up starting today through Thursday and I was afraid that if I waited the alfalfa may get too mature before the next window to cut.

Thanks, Hayden


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I guess if you have the weather window that you can do it and maybe not a chance for another 2 weeks or so I would say do it. So long as you are satisfied with the growth so far. But it will take longer to cure then if you let it bud out more. I've never paid attention to the 30 day thing. For my market I'm more concerned about having fine stems and good color plus of course not shattering the leaves. Besides who has the weather in most parts of the country where you can cut and bale according to the perfect amount of days.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

the way the weather has been for most folks this season if you have the window then by all means cut it.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

This is a tricky question.

A great deal depends on your management style.

If you lay your hay out in a wide swath you and have under a 1.5 T/A when you cut figure baling on the third day.

HERE we can expect to cut the first time pre bud alfalfa in late March.

If Weather or another consideration is involved our first cutting for the first field is delayed HERE we will be in Quarter Bloom around mid April.

Again if you lay the hay out full width and have 1.75 T/A yield figure to be able to bale the fourth day. Drop the hay in a *FULL* width you still can bale the third day.

If the cutting is delayed to Full bloom figure being able to bale the 4 th or 5 th day.

Now for a Dairy market cutting at late bud stage will produce the highest valued hay, but less yield.
If the hay is cut at three quarter bloom the yield will be the best but at a lower value.
If cut at full bloom this will have the lowest valued hay plus a less than maximum yield.

Cutting at the old standard quarter bloom you may see a premium value with a better yield for a better income. Than again you may see a lower valued hay and not enough added yield to make up the difference.

I have had fields that had matured to having viable seed in the pods for the first cutting of the season.

I used to have 6 fields in alfalfa. For March to June I would never have more than two fields on the ground at a time, If I have a July or August cutting I can comfortably have 3 or more fields on the ground at one time.

You will have to know your yield probability and climate. Here I do not have more hay on the ground to bale than our humidity will allow. You want to bale between too damp and too dry to bale.

You will find you want to rake early in the morning. You want to start baling when the air next to the hay is near 70% humidity. Round bales and large square bales require a lower relative humidity.

Check out a West Virginia Publication http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5811.pdf
& http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-454/442-454.html

Best to you. If you wish contact me at [email protected]


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Lay it down....then you will get 2 more cuttings.

Regards, Mike


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

I guess we all wrestle with these decisions in most of the country. Do we take a smaller yield when the opportunity arises or allow the field to grow further and hope there will be as good or better conditions a week or more from now. I practice a version of Hay Wilson's method: I'll place lots of smaller bets on cutting only limited amounts under less than ideal conditions. I may get it rained on or wish I had cut more. Its just too risky to wait for that extended ideal weather window. I say take some chips off the table and get started on growing the next cutting. There's not much difference in yield between 2nd and 3rd or even 4th cutting compared to 1st cut.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

I dont know about your part of the world but here we will TRY to stay on a 28 to 30 day cycle no matter what the crop looks like or what the weather forecast is showing. If we get out of time we will lose a cutting and I like to get 5 cuttings each season. All of the alfalfa here is under center pivots so that helps too on the cycle period .


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## Tjim (Feb 23, 2014)

We go for dairy quality exclusively and try to cut on a 28 day cycle. The weather has to be pretty ominous for us not to cut. We have had better luck over the years moving rained on hay with a good test than dry hay with a low test. And there's as good a chance here to get rained on hay with a bad test as any, which really knocks the bottom out of the market. So we always go for the test.

But, in our area, most everyone else is going for tonnage this year and going 35 days or more. We are in a drought so rain is a luxury...even when hay is down.

I guess it all depends on your market.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

My hay is sold mostly to horse owners and I really don't have to have a dairy quality hay.....color and no rain/mold is the most important thing. Here it seems like windows to make hay are getting fewer and farther between and since it is close to being ready that is why I was thinking I may should go ahead and cut as the extended forecast for the next week isn't very promising. With the weather we have here it would be very difficult to actually cut on a strict schedule all the time.....there are times when we can get rain showers almost every day for a week. I was more concerned about injuring the alfalfa by cutting early than the reduced yield.

The ground is pretty wet from the past couple days of rain so I didn't cut today to let it dry a bit......I will look at the weather again in the morning and if it's still clear I will put it on the ground in the morning.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I think you may as well leave the haybine in the shed. If you sell just to the horse market, they don't care about the growth stage. I don't know how your wx has been acting, but it sounds like you have a week or two before it reaches 1/2 bloom - I would guess that in that time period you'd have a window to cut it. Don't forget, you loose a lot of tonnage and some color when you cut it on the early side. Its going to take at least an extra day for it dry, and it's going to shrink a LOT when it dries down.

Rodney


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## Tjim (Feb 23, 2014)

I don't think you'll injure it. In our part of the country the horse people don't like a real fine hay, though. We used to sell horse hay and they always wanted a little more mature hay. I'm sure you know your customers well.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't know if it makes any difference or not but the alfalfa is starting to lodge in places and where that is happening the lower leaves are turning mushy.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Rodney R said:


> Don't forget, you loose some color when you cut it on the early side. Its going to take at least an extra day for it dry, and it's going to shrink a LOT when it dries down.
> 
> Rodney


That's interesting about the color and the extra day drying. I had not heard of that, but it is good to know.

Regards, Mike


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

On our farm we will wait a little usually 35 to 38 days. WeI want it fully buded and yes we're starting to see some flowers at that point too.. Our customers want it baled dry no dust sound for horses RFVis something they don't understand it depends on your markets


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

The BIG question here is how much do you trust your weather man ? There is one rule that applies to ALL hay , you can either have quality or quantity . My experience is to not listen to the weather man to hard or he'll cost you money .


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Tjim said:


> We go for dairy quality exclusively and try to cut on a 28 day cycle. The weather has to be pretty ominous for us not to cut. We have had better luck over the years moving rained on hay with a good test than dry hay with a low test. And there's as good a chance here to get rained on hay with a bad test as any, which really knocks the bottom out of the market. So we always go for the test.
> 
> But, in our area, most everyone else is going for tonnage this year and going 35 days or more. We are in a drought so rain is a luxury...even when hay is down.
> 
> I guess it all depends on your market.


Definitely depends on area, here I have better luck moving mature hay that still has color than rained on hay. Most is sold thru the auctions and people may not even bother looking at test results. Usually only the new guys bother to bring the results with em to place on the load.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

If you have the window to cut it, I would put it on the ground. If not, you could lose one of your cuttings. A bird in the hand----------


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Well for one thing for sure the Horse Owners are not near as knowledgeable as they believe. They go mostly by color and sight.

The dairy normally does not look at color they look at feed value. a feed value that compliments their concentrate mix.

California has a lot to say about cutting intervals.

For High testing dairy rations they want to cut before any blooms appear. But if they must delay cutting THEN they appear to like a half to three quarter bloom, they lose on the feed value and the Dairy Premium, but they can make it up with the better total yields even with the lower price per ton of hay and loss of a cutting. .

I will not argue that later harvesting will reduce the total number of cuttings but they feel there is a better total yield advantage with fewer but larger cuttings.

One advantage for cutting before bloom in horse country is, no blooms no blister beetles. I am sure someone will assure they do not have blister beetles. They just have not looked. Anyplace in the world with both flowering plants AND grasshoppers WILL have one of the many strains of blister beetles.

Personally I try not to sell alfalfa to a horse owner. Not because of the beetles but because alfalfa has more energy than the houses can use, unless they have a Wet Mare, or are actively training for the race track or the rodeo events. Even those limit feed alfalfa and free choice good grass hay.

We all have our own market as well as soil, climate, and management conditions.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Well for one thing for sure the Horse Owners are not near as knowledgeable as they believe. They go mostly by color and sight.
> The dairy normally does not look at color they look at feed value. a feed value that compliments their concentrate mix.
> California has a lot to say about cutting intervals.
> For High testing dairy rations they want to cut before any blooms appear. But if they must delay cutting THEN they appear to like a half to three quarter bloom, they lose on the feed value and the Dairy Premium, but they can make it up with the better total yields even with the lower price per ton of hay and loss of a cutting. .
> ...


Do you think horses that pull farm equipment like on Amish farms need alfalfa.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

They feed Timothy. It is considered to give more stamina. Alfalfa being more like eating a candy bar. This is what my Amish hay customers tell me. A race horse stable I deal with has the same philosophy.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I went ahead and cut the alfalfa today around noon.....the weather was supposed to be clear so I hated to miss out on window to make hay when the extended forecast for next week looked dismal. The way this weather has been it could have been a couple weeks before the next window would have opened up and by that time the alfalfa would have been awfully mature.

You would know that right after I finished cutting it turned overcast for the rest of the day and this evening around 7 we got a shower of rain when it was supposed to be only a 10% chance. We didn't get much rain at all......just enough to wet the pavement down real good. I'm hoping that little bit didnt hurt the hay since it had just been mowed earlier in the day. I sure hope they didn't miss the forecast for the next couple days. Had I known we would not have had drying weather today like we were supposed to I may very well have held off as it may be pushing it to get it dry in time.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Didn't get enough rain to hurt the hay yesterday evening.....was more like a heavy dew. Now there is a 50% chance this afternoon and Thursday is 30% with rain every day after Thursday......I feel like sending the weatherman a bill for the hay.


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## Tjim (Feb 23, 2014)

Vol said:


> That's interesting about the color and the extra day drying. I had not heard of that, but it is good to know.
> 
> Regards, Mike


That's what happens here too. The leaves lose color faster that the stems. More leaves...more color loss, more stems...slower color loss. The dairy people don't mind lack of color if RFV is high. On the other hand horse people don't seem to even know what RFV and TDN is. They care only about color and clean.

We won't feed fine hay to our horses either. They can get diarrhea, colic, founder and other problems with real high quality (test) hay. They do better on coarse hay. However, they can get the some of the same symptoms with dirty or moldy hay. A horse can adapt to a variety of feeds and hay that working ranch horses eat might be damaging to a hobby or fancy horse that is used to clean "sterile" hay.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Many times here they feed 1st cutting alfalfa that is old, or rained on alfalfa. Or whatever they have that isn't moldy. As posted above it seems that it's just a local train of thought as to what to feed.

Rodney


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## aawhite (Jan 16, 2012)

Something to keep in mind for later cuttings. Later maturity, 10% to 50% bloom, before cutting will also prolong stand life. Dairies or alfalfa growers that target the dairy market exclusively and always cut in the bud/pre-bloom stage will usually lose a year or two of stand life.. If you're not supplying dairys, let it grow.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

This forecast is from Ag Wx Info Svs awis.com and is E-Mail to the grower.

Hay Cutting/Curing Forecast Section
Curing Time Includes Cutting Date
HAY CUT DATE
------------
Required
Num Days Fri Sat Sun Mon Tue 
Curing Time 08/08 08/09 08/10 08/11 08/12 
----------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- 
2 EXCELLENT EXCELLENT GOOD GOOD GOOD 
3 EXCELLENT EXCELLENT GOOD GOOD GOOD 
4 EXCELLENT GOOD GOOD GOOD GOOD 
5 EXCELLENT GOOD GOOD GOOD GOOD

This is supposidly for the area around Temple Texas only.

When they say Excellent they mean the hay will be cured by the end of the number of days.

Good is it is a good chance the hay will be cured.

Marginal is it just might get cured.

Poor is the hay will just sit there and rot.

None of this is saying the hay will or will not get rained on.

Their explanation for all of their E-mailed information.
7-Day Agricultural Forecast Table Explanations
-----
MIN=nighttime low (7pm previous night to 8am of the indicated day, local time)
MAX=daytime high (7am-7pm, local time)
PoP=Probability of Precipitation (percent)
Evap=Pan Evaporation (inches)
RH Max/Min = Maximum and Minimum Relative Humidity (%)
... Max RH Typically Occurs Near Sunrise, Min RH Near Mid-Afternoon
Hrs Sun = Hours of Sunshine
AM Wind Dir/Spd = Morning Wind Direction / Speed (MPH)
PM Wind Dir/Spd = Afternoon Wind Direction / Speed (MPH)

Hay Cutting/Curing Forecast Explanations
------------------

Where: Poor = Hay Not Likely To Cure
Marginal = Not The Best Curing Conditions
Good = Good Chances Hay Will Cure
Excellent = Hay Likely To Cure

This Is A Generic Hay Curing Guide, Based On Expected Average
Weather Conditions In Given Region. Conditions May Vary Locally
Particularly In The 'Marginal' Curing Category. Type And Density
Of Hay Cut And Cutting/Conditioning Techniques May Also Alter
Local Curing Rates.

Copyright 2014: AWIS, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Redistribution prohibited. Acceptance and use of this transmission
constitutes your continuing assent to our disclaimer previously provided.

I know this is Copyrighted but they know I will pass on what I know. 
These people are in a Strip Mall office with maybe 20 PhD's working. I believe the ganitor has a PhD in weather or agriculture or both.

Ag Weather for hay is not their bread and butter.

If interested contact Karl Harker [email protected] who started out putting up hay in Indiania.
Karl has a good understanding of hay harvesting.

If interested write me at [email protected] in another two weeks.


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## eastsidehayguy (Aug 12, 2013)

I have been cutting my alfalfa pre bud and can not get it to dry down. I cut on wednesday, tedded thursday, wheel raked friday, and 5bar flipped saturday and still at 30% all with 75-85 degree days. I have the conditioner rollers on my 1411 as tight as i can I am about ready to give up.... The only thing I can think is that I need to just let it get over ripe as the horse people wont care anyway, thus giving me a thicker stem that is more likely to crack and dry down faster.... Any suggestions would be appreciated..... I am also 7 miles off of Lake Huron, I dont think that helps either


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Ted it a second time Friday morning.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

OhioHay said:


> They feed Timothy. It is considered to give more stamina. Alfalfa being more like eating a candy bar. This is what my Amish hay customers tell me. A race horse stable I deal with has the same philosophy.


The Amish here would feedTimothy as well but they won't pay a premium for it On our farms it gave 1 good cutting and the second was very lite .IT was not profitable on our farms I know many places it is.


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## eastsidehayguy (Aug 12, 2013)

8350HiTech said:


> Ted it a second time Friday morning.


what about leaf loss by doing that? Or do you still ted it out with the dew on it?

Sorry if these are "dumb" questions, however there really is no dry hay guys around here to try to learn from


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

eastsidehayguy said:


> what about leaf loss by doing that? Or do you still ted it out with the dew on it?
> Sorry if these are "dumb" questions, however there really is no dry hay guys around here to try to learn from


Yes, with dew. Lots of guys think tedding (and re-tedding) alfalfa is blasphemy but if you live in a humid climate you do what you need to do. With dew.


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## eastsidehayguy (Aug 12, 2013)

would you still suggest cutting at roughly the 28th day mark? or let it flower at 25%... Thanks guys, if I had hair I would be pulling it out


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

If you're making hay for the horse market, then forget about the days on the calendar - you have to be able to get it dry, without tedding and raking it to death.

Rodney


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I have had hay dry in as little as 3 days and as many as 9 days. It just depends on the conditions.


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## siscofarms (Nov 23, 2010)

OR you could just leave it alone a day . Personally not a big fan of tedding . I always ted when I need to the morning I want to bale it . Low rpms fast speed . Just shake it up . Extra tedding is just Fuel,Time ,Wear and tear on equip .


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