# Preservative Question



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Thinking about making a preservative applicator for my square baler. It would be manual on/off.

In as much as it's manual vs auto - naturally the application would be on the worse case side - understood.

However, other than cost, what is the down side to - to much preservative? I'd be using buffered propionic acid.

In addition to the preservative applicator, I would install a moisture meter in the bale chamber. From those readings while baling and in the tractor seat, I'd bring on/off the preservative as required.

Question is - does the "moisture" of the preservative squew the readings? Thinking about using an Agtronix BHT-2 meter.

It would be nice if the meter had a set if dry contacts you could use to enable the pump on the applicator on/off and then I'd have a fairly low cost automated system.

Lastly - "buffered" propionic acid. Pretty much everything I have read indicated rust isn't an issue. What's you're real world experience?

The goal is NOT to use the acid - but to have it ready to go if necessary. I think I can successfully explain propionic acid treated hay to a horse customer, but IMHO the door to a sale is closed with dusty hay and me and the goat customers and their skinny wallets are good friends - LOL!

Thanks!
Bill


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The idea behind the Harvestec applicator is to apply a varying rate of acid depending on the moisture. My unit applies 4 lbs/ton at 16-20%, 8 lbs/ton at 20-26% and 16 lbs/ton over 26%. These settings are programmable.

At $1-$1.20/lb, 16 lbs/ton starts to get expensive fast.

But, for my round baler, I just apply 4 lbs/ton under manual control and bump it up when necessary by turning on a 2nd/3rd pump.

Ralph


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't know how low you will be able to get the cost for a home built unit but you might want to look into a manual CropCare applicator. A few hundred bucks will buy one.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

We use the Agtronix BHT-2 meter. on both the round and small square baler. Works great. We don't use acid, but first response. It is a one rate application, this makes it easy to apply. I will use it when the crops are questionable, and almost always on the rounds. The problem with trying to save a dime by turning the applicator on and off is that the moisture meter is reading the bale as it is being formed NOT as it goes in the chamber.

And yes you can set the BHT to off set the false readings when product is applied.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Here are a few other threads:

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/28993-moisture-tester-mounted-on-baler/

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/20333-first-response-hay-preservative/

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/24549-hay-preservitives/

There is a lot more on this, if you search.

Cheers,


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Here are a few other threads:
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/28993-moisture-tester-mounted-on-baler/
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/20333-first-response-hay-preservative/
> http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/24549-hay-preservitives/
> ...


???????

I do search and have read those threads previously. Perhaps you should re-read my post or just read it the first time be because the answers to the questions I raised ain't in the treads you posted.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

leeave96 said:


> ???????
> 
> I do search and have read those threads previously. Perhaps you should re-read my post or just read it the first time be because the answers to the questions I raised ain't in the treads you posted.


I am so sorry to have disappointed you. I didn't re-read those threads, to see if there were specific answers to your questions. I was just trying to help as the search option in HT can be difficult to navigate. I did make an attempt in my first response (no pun intended).


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## NebTrac (Aug 12, 2014)

Here's on way a guy did it on youtube. I've watched it several times and it seems to be close to what you're trying to do.






Troy


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

I've never seen rust. We run the acid about 50% of the time. I think that you'll be fooling yourself turning it on/off, unless you have a tree line or something like that to skew the moisture on a few rows. Normally the moisture *should* not vary that much. Notice I said *should*. The acid will make the moisture go up a little, but that varies by the day, and depends on how tight you're making the bales. Too much acid.... if you get to the end of a row, and forget to turn it off, you will have a few flakes in that bale that are black, and make your eyes water. However if you need 4 lbs per ton, and you apply 8....... I think you've only wasted money

Rodney


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## WFPQA (Dec 29, 2015)

If you are not completely committed to the acid you might take a look at Hay Guard. It works well and has one rate up to

23 to 25%. The best part about using preservatives is the ability to put your hay up at higher moisture which allows you to retain more leaves. Manual on/off works for me. You will occasionally forget to shut it off until you get used to it. Hope this helps.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

One other possible problem with some bales being treated and others not being treated is that moisture will migrate from wet/treated hay to dry/untreated hay and cause the untreated hay to mold.

I think if you are having swings in moisture levels within the same field big enough to need to turn the unit on and off, you might want to take a look at how you are mowing, tedding and raking. Making some changes there can help even out the moisture variations in the field.


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good point!


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## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

I had once thought about riggin my own applicator up, after buying the CropCare applicator and I opted for the extra few buck do get the electronic controls so I can change pressure and on/off. I'm defently glad I have this option, I do a lot of small fields and tree lines. I also have the bht-2 moisture sensors and when I start to see moisture creep up or spike I will crank it up quick and then back down, don't get me wrong sometimes in the case of just a wet spot in a hollow or something most times it's to late by the time you get the reading. I feel it's worth the extra money. I also have been using the first response for the last 2 years.


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## gearhartfarms82 (May 10, 2015)

Bill

Rust no problem

If your going to run acid, run it. DONT selectively run it accordingly to moister. You will get burnt. Ether run it or dont put it on the baler.

I havent really noticed any issue with the meter with acid applied. Seems to work just fine.

The problem with moister meter kicking it on/off is that its a little behind the nozzles.

Other thing is you might want to buy the electric control for the system so u can adjust in the cab.

For us in ohio acid is must. Saved us many times. Especially in the curing process.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Firstly - thanks to everyone for your replies!!!!!!

Let's assume the following:

The propionic acid costs $1.25 per lb (maybe that's high - maybe low) (What did you pay per lb in 2015? )

1 ton of hay is 40ea of 50lb square bales.

According to Harvest Tec - 23% to 26% moisture hay, apply 8lbs/ton for stem moisture or 6lbs/ton dew moisture.

If I do my math correctly, at 8lbs/ton, would add about 25 cents per bale.

I realize 26% moisture is pushing the limits. Also on Harvest Tec's videos on youtube, they state (if I heard it correctly) excess perservative doesn't cause any harm.

Not that I would - but if I applied at 8lbs per ton constantly - regardless of the moisture variation then I'm thinking a 25 cent on a bale of hay is the lesser evil than dusty hay.

I think I would calibrate my sprayer with two pressure settings - one for 17% to 22 % so if my moisture is below that, say 15% with a few spikes here and there, I'd be covered. The other would be for higher moisture - like when rain is coming and the whole field would be compromised.

Of course, the applicator would be turned off when moisture levels are low. If the weather is favorable, I'd wait another day to achieve desirable moisture content and if through out the day, as the sun beat down, the moisture levels went down, I'd switch it off.

The goal is to apply only when needed. If the business grows enough, then we'd look to a fully automated system.

Again - I feel confident (as much as is practical with the horse market) I can explain buffered propionic acid, but never dust or mold.

Bill


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

leeave96 said:


> The propionic acid costs $1.25 per lb (maybe that's high - maybe low) (What did you pay per lb in 2015? )


I sell totes for $1 a lb

http://swmnhay.com/preservative.htm


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

We sell Nuhn Forages "The Juice" which is a buffered propionic acid with 5.8ph and is comprised of 68% propionic acid, 5% citric acid and 2% surfactant(dispersing agent to permeate through the bale). Have had really good feed back from our customers that used it last year, one even had to bale at 32% moisture to clear a field(not recommended) and hasn't had any bales turn on him! Another great thing about using "The Juice" is that if you have any questions pertaining to the product you can call and speak with Terry Nuhn which is the President of the company directly, that is if the knowledgeable parts personnel can't answer them for you. The product is EPA certified and is highly regulated by the Canadian government so you can guarantee that the labeled ingredients/quantities are truly being used(unlike some other stuff out on the market). The product is sold in 120lb.drums/450lb.drums and 2400lb., 270 gallon totes. We have shipped it from our store in Western, NY out to Illinois, so keep us in mind if you're looking for another good option! I think you'll find that even with shipping costs we'd be cheaper than most of the other AGCO, New Holland and Case dealers.

JC

Java Farm Supply, Inc.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

javafarmbatavia said:


> We sell Nuhn Forages "The Juice" which is a buffered propionic acid with 5.8ph and is comprised of 68% propionic acid, 5% citric acid and 2% surfactant(dispersing agent to permeate through the bale). Have had really good feed back from our customers that used it last year, one even had to bale at 32% moisture to clear a field(not recommended) and hasn't had any bales turn on him! Another great thing about using "The Juice" is that if you have any questions pertaining to the product you can call and speak with Terry Nuhn which is the President of the company directly, that is if the knowledgeable parts personnel can't answer them for you. The product is EPA certified and is highly regulated by the Canadian government so you can guarantee that the labeled ingredients/quantities are truly being used(unlike some other stuff out on the market). The product is sold in 120lb.drums/450lb.drums and 2400lb., 270 gallon totes. We have shipped it from our store in Western, NY out to Illinois, so keep us in mind if you're looking for another good option! I think you'll find that even with shipping costs we'd be cheaper than most of the other AGCO, New Holland and Case dealers.
> 
> JC
> 
> Java Farm Supply, Inc.


Nice to know you folks carry that. I bought my first bale wagon from you years ago, an old model 1010. Welcome to haytalk.


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

Cool, must've been a trade in but hope it served you well. We carry a full line of hay products, keep us in mind.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

I know I'm gonna get a lot of grief from about what I'm about to type, but I use 16lbs a ton on my alfalfa 90% of the time. It cost me $.46 a bale and I'm getting $9 a bale $.46 doesn't bother me one bit for the peace of mind I have. I have bales hay thats 40% moisture by my moisture tester and never lost a bale to mold. Was that on purpose no I usually bale in the 18%-25% range. If you put to much on like when you forget to turn it off at the end of a row it turns my alfalfa bales brown.

Don't turn it on and off. Either us it or don't! One thing others haven't said is if you are trying to turn it on and off a lot of the time my nozzles with get clogged from the leaf pieces and dust and not work when you do turn it back on. This is on a inline baler so on a side pull I doubt this would be a issue since my nozzles are a lot closer with my inline.

It use juice as well. terry is a great guy. I have it shipped directly to my farm


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

Glad you use the product and are happy with it. You must've been buying from Terry before we started selling it, so if you hear of anyone else wanting to buy some let me know.


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

Why would they not just deal with Terry? That's one of the main reasons I buy juice. No middle man


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

Well, the agreement between the two companies is that any sales starting last year in the US are directed through Java Farm Supply.. I'm sorry if that doesn't make any sense but at least there's just one "Middle man" unlike Crop Saver/Thirty Plus where it's sold from Harvestec to AGCO,CASE or New Holland then to the dealer and then the end user with the price jacked up on it.. I'm in charge of all ordering from Terry and have always and will continue to be price conscious for our customers. I'll actually be attending the NY State Farm Show in Syracuse with Terry at his display next week so if you have any friends in NY that are interested have them stop in.. Again, thank you for using the product.

JC Stout


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## Nate926 (Apr 6, 2014)

So your saying I will have to buy from you in the future or is that just from customers that started buying in the past year from terry? I buy one tote a year but plan to start buying more than one tote in the future.


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

I'd like for you to buy from us obviously, but if Terry can get it to you cheaper than we can I'd be fine with you sticking with going direct since you were buying from him prior to our agreement. If you could call into the store or give me your number/email I can tell you what it would cost for a tote with freight. My number is 585-219-4761 or email is [email protected]..


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