# Spray job gone horribly wrong. What spray was used?



## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Long story short. Spray company was hired to spray for weevil. Next day hay started to turn and burn. No smell to it. Questions, what should I ask for compensation from spray company and what would you guess as to what was used? They are being good at taking responsibility for the killed field and have no idea what has happened. Waiting for results back from samples taken. Had some grass and dandelions that it didn’t touch. Thanks.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

How long since you looked at the dandelions and grass?

A 2,4D type or atrizine would have hit the dandelions and alfalfa and left the grass alone.

A glyphosate would have hit everything.

Contact them immediately, I think they owe you.

It's possible they didn't clean their tank.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I do all the spraying for our farm. I keep track of every load exactly what's in it and exactly where it is applied.. they know what's going on. Depending on what they did like for example just left some nitrogen in the tank it might burn things down and it might come back. Depending on what was in the tank before and maybe they didn't properly clean up before switching to your field. Possibly somebody mixed the wrong ingredient and they should know. That could be the difference between stunting this crop or killing this crop or having a field that you cannot plan anything into for 18 months. I would want to know exactly what's going on in regards to compensation


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. Dandelions and grass are still unfazed. Alfalfa is completely brown. I was hoping it would come out of it, but it’s not looking to promising. Company said all they’d been spraying previously was for weevil. Me and one other farmer was hit with the same mix. I’ve just never seen any herbicide work so fast. Can’t change what’s happened, but it’s caused me sleepless nights.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

You should be compensated for expected revenue lost out on plus cost to reseed.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

You should hire an attorney and seek every kind of damages possible.....compensatory, punitive, emotional, etc. There could be some kind of short term residual herbicide involved that would jeopardize immediate future replanting. A good Ag attorney will more than pay for himself.

Regards, Mike


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Why was the chemical added off farm? Is that how it's done over there? Certainly not how it's done here.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have experienced multiple mistakes by commercial spray companies. Rarely do they confess exactly what transpired. In part I believe it is due to the failure of drivers to own their mistakes. One year they sprayed my field with paraquat instead of roundup. Obvious in 4 hours. Driver said he sprayed rup on farm before me and emptied his tank there, then sprayed mine. Lost a fall planting for Timothy. That precipitated a several season problem with that field with weeds etc that most likely would have been avoided had the correct herbicide been used to begin with. Hard to determine that level of compensation.

Another time a company was to spray a field for orchard grass seeding. I drilled a day later. Driver didn't put herbicide in the tank until he got to the third field. Situation was painfully clear but he denied making a mistake. The company respirated for free and compensated me for the cost of reseeding but not for the loss due to the delay in getting the field established. Actually, the spray company blamed it on a bad batch of herbicide and the manufacturer paid the bill. It was a cluster, the driver screwed up and didn't have the integrity to admit it.

Good luck on getting the actual compensation you're due. I tend to agree with Mike's suggestion


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Vol said:


> You should hire an attorney and seek every kind of damages possible.....compensatory, punitive, emotional, etc. There could be some kind of short term residual herbicide involved that would jeopardize immediate future replanting. A good Ag attorney will more than pay for himself.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I respectfully disagree about getting a lawyer involved---at this time. Lawyers tend to stir things up because they are trained to be adversarial. And they don't make any money if everything works out.

I'd talk with them in a firm, assertive manner to see if the management will make it right. No threats, just "This was what was done, this is the result. What can we do to make it right?"

Know what is "right by you" before you talk with them. But don't tell them--let them make the first offer

If they step to the plate and do right by you, I'd give them my business forever.

If they dodge and don't do right, sue their pants off. And don't forget to include attorney's fee as part of your claim--otherwise your lawyer will be the one who ends up getting paid.

Ralph


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Another case of "if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself"

If another customer is having the same issue as you, I don't know what to say. If they forgot to flush the boom before starting your field, that would only be brown for 30 feet or so.

It depends on the insecticide they used but Furadan sprayed on ultra hot days has been known to cup soybeans pretty badly.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hiring a lawyer or litigation should be the last resort. In any business situation like this, always exhaust all possibilities of solving the problem in a civil manner first, then bring in legal help as a last resort. Lawyers will just make everything cost more for everyone and drag out the situation for months (Criminal is a different story).

Keep records, timelines, take pictures, get samples. Take them to the OWNER of the company. Better yet tell him to meet you at your property and he should realize the mistake in under 1 minute. His mistake is on obvious display for other customers to see. If he wants to keep his other customers and preserve his reputation, he will own up to it immediately and he or his insurance company will compensate you quickly.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I’ve had a similar issue before with a large corporate ag company. Getting such a business to cut you a check is not very simple because of the layers of the company that you have to get through to find someone who is authorized to do so. However, I was able to come to an agreement with the local manager to get my compensation in the form of “free” spray services. They were easily able to to write that off in house without going to their corporate bosses. This solution obviously depends on whether you believe this was simply a case of human error and are willing to have them back again.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Vol said:


> You should hire an attorney and seek every kind of damages possible.....compensatory, punitive, emotional, etc. There could be some kind of short term residual herbicide involved that would jeopardize immediate future replanting. A good Ag attorney will more than pay for himself.
> 
> Regards, Mike


I could never disagree more. He said the company is good at taking responsibility. I would investigate first, then, if needed think attorney.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Ohhh! And BTW, keep a written log of every conversation you have with anybody about this issue and include the time, date, person(s) you talked with, and the topic.

I do this all the time. I keep a notepad and pen on my desk.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Yes I would put a hold on the lawyer but if you're no expert on spraying I would get a good third-party mediator often the county agent can act in this place


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

I appreciate the feedback by all. Just met with the spray company and they are going above my expectations to make this right. When figuring cost of hay per ton lost, would you recommend figuring it standing or in a bale. I have good production records so know what the patch will produce. Obviously I won’t be cutting, raking, baling or hauling. I do have two waterings and spent a lot on fertilizer. Next time I’ll just spray with my own rig, these guys are just starting up and thought I’d help with giving them a bit of business. I believe this has got their attention so hopefully they learn a lesson.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

A fair settlement would be for them to pay for the seed, replanting time and cost, and something for lost profit. Do not ask for fertilizer because your fertilizer is till there. Don't ask for a baled cost because you haven't spent anything on baling. Don't ask for watering because you would be watering anyway.

Do you have any records from previous years for typical production on your place. I keep track of the number of bales from each field by cutting and the bale weight. As an example, a field I just finished produce 67 1000 lb bales of OG from 14 acres.

BTW: Find out what chemical was used because some chemicals have a long residual life. This could affect your replanting.

Ralph


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

Short version: few years ago rented had field at our house we had rented him sprayed by plane. Killed our Kio fish in pond at our back door. All I wanted was to be paid for the fish which was around $200. Person who did the spraying told me what chemcial he used and to file formal complaint. County Agent who handled such for this area was able to get the pilot to understand if I filed formal complaint it would be a serious issue per the county agent. It was heading that way had the Agent not got the pilot's attention which pleased me. I knew the pilot and had no desire to harm him but did have desire for him to own up to his mistake.

Now Saturday a week ago had a hired applicator spray one of my new coastal fields by mistake. He did not tell me truth on chemical he was using but the person who hired him even text me the list. Don't think it will hard my coastal but the applicator not being honest disappointed me but think the person who hired him will be sure I am not harmed. Last I checked the coastal was not looking hurt. My chemical guy thinks my field is okay.

In both cases I would rather be able to settle at the lowest level possible. Now the size of the injury does come into how much I would push this. If it could cause me serious financial loss would really be sure to touch base with the regulator people also real quick. As has been said already get all the proof you can. A text or email conformation is good. If a text do get it printed and saved. A witness to the conversation is also good.

Hope this goes well for you. In both of my cases had I not been home to see what happened might not have known what happened.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

rjmoses said:


> A fair settlement would be for them to pay for the seed, replanting time and cost, and something for lost profit. Do not ask for fertilizer because your fertilizer is till there. Don't ask for a baled cost because you haven't spent anything on baling. Don't ask for watering because you would be watering anyway.
> 
> Do you have any records from previous years for typical production on your place. I keep track of the number of bales from each field by cutting and the bale weight. As an example, a field I just finished produce 67 1000 lb bales of OG from 14 acres.
> 
> ...


Technically a prorated portion of his seed and seeding costs would be most fair depending on how many years the stand had remaining.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> BTW: Find out what chemical was used because some chemicals have a long residual life. This could affect your replanting.
> 
> Ralph


Yes this is far more important .


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

I still dont know why it would happen in the first place?Surely you guys as the farmers , buy your own chemical, take it home and store it on your property. Ol mate rocks up with an empty tank and fills at yours . Or turns up with nothing but water in tank if you cant supply your own. You give him a sheet with the rate, and show him what paddocks and he tips in appropriate amount........Under no circumstances would I allow anyone to bring a premixed tank here.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> I still dont know why it would happen in the first place?Surely you guys as the farmers , buy your own chemical, take it home and store it on your property. Ol mate rocks up with an empty tank and fills at yours . Or turns up with nothing but water in tank if you cant supply your own. You give him a sheet with the rate, and show him what paddocks and he tips in appropriate amount........Under no circumstances would I allow anyone to bring a premixed tank here.


It's not that way here most places that custom spray you have to also buy the chemicals from them.They make money on both the custom spraying and chemical markup.A lot of times they load the sprayer at the plant have a nice place to load inside the building with containment Incase of a spill which the Guberment rules require more and more of.If they are spraying a lot of same chemical on same crop they pre mix in a transfer tank and shuttle to sprayer as they go field to field so they can cover a lot more acres in a day.There has to be a lot of trust in the the custom applicators and they don't want a bad reputation either or word would get out fast and they wouldn't have any Bissness.I never see what spray is put in the sprayer and put a lot of trust in them.Just how it is here!


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

swmnhay said:


> It's not that way here most places that custom spray you have to also buy the chemicals from them.They make money on both the custom spraying and chemical markup.A lot of times they load the sprayer at the plant have a nice place to load inside the building with containment Incase of a spill which the Guberment rules require more and more of.If they are spraying a lot of same chemical on same crop they pre mix in a transfer tank and shuttle to sprayer as they go field to field so they can cover a lot more acres in a day.There has to be a lot of trust in the the custom applicators and they don't want a bad reputation either or word would get out fast and they wouldn't have any Bissness.I never see what spray is put in the sprayer and put a lot of trust in them.Just how it is here!


Yeah nah, bugger that for a joke. Spray contractors here do spraying only. All chemical is bought from retailers. I dont know any that do both. That is just asking for trouble.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Yeah nah, bugger that for a joke. Spray contractors here do spraying only. All chemical is bought from retailers. I dont know any that do both. That is just asking for trouble.


Do you provide the ingredients if you go to a restaurant?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Yeah nah, bugger that for a joke. Spray contractors here do spraying only. All chemical is bought from retailers. I dont know any that do both. That is just asking for trouble.


How is it asking for trouble? If I hired my spraying done but watched them load every load, why the hell wouldn't I just do it myself? Two of my brothers are custom applicators, both cover anywhere between 40,000 and 50,000 acres a year. Yes, they do get guys that buy their generic chem else where and have them spray. It's a higher application charge per acre since they aren't getting revenue from the chem. Do you buy the parts to repair something and take them to the mechanic or do you trust the technician to know what he will need for a certain job? 8350HiTech had a great post above as well.


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

Easier for the applicators to provide the chemicals, they can buy stuff in mini bulk or bulk cheaper and you don't have to worry if you have enough product or too much product for the application. If you provide the product and you are short for the acres it would still look bad for the applicator if the product didn't do its job. One thing for the applicator is he can mix batches and spray your farm then go down the road and spray same chemicals on same crop at another farm. They just need to do a good job rinsing the sprayer when switching crops and be careful when spraying traited crops and then spray same crop without the built in resistance, for example roundup ready and non roundup.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

danwi said:


> Easier for the applicators to provide the chemicals, they can buy stuff in mini bulk or bulk cheaper and you don't have to worry if you have enough product or too much product for the application. If you provide the product and you are short for the acres it would still look bad for the applicator if the product didn't do its job. One thing for the applicator is he can mix batches and spray your farm then go down the road and spray same chemicals on same crop at another farm. They just need to do a good job rinsing the sprayer when switching crops and be careful when spraying traited crops and then spray same crop without the built in resistance, for example roundup ready and non roundup.


 I spray my own but yes it is common for custom applicators to supply the material and do multiple Farms with the same material before re cleaning the sprayer.. the guys that apply a lot in this area they provide and sell chemicals. If you call and tell him what your problem is they have an agronomist / salesman and he decides what to use at what rate and he gives the instructions to the tender operator and the applicator and they apply it... it is different here than down under there's no way a spray tig would just roll up in the driveway and dump in whatever the farmer says they take responsibility very serious


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Like I said, down here contractors spray only. It is up to the farmer to supply the chemical, which we purchase from a retailer, who has agronomists on staff that provide advice and recommendations on what chem and rate to use. How else can you be 100% sure they have put the right stuff in the tank? As obviously hasnt happened in the OP.

Agronomists have tertiary training in chemicals and weed identification. I dont know any contractors that have more than a chemical handlers certificate. Also one retailer / agronomist can service a much larger area servicing more farmers who spray themselves and several contractors as well.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

stack em up said:


> How is it asking for trouble? If I hired my spraying done but watched them load every load, why the hell wouldn't I just do it myself? Two of my brothers are custom applicators, both cover anywhere between 40,000 and 50,000 acres a year. Yes, they do get guys that buy their generic chem else where and have them spray. It's a higher application charge per acre since they aren't getting revenue from the chem. Do you buy the parts to repair something and take them to the mechanic or do you trust the technician to know what he will need for a certain job? 8350HiTech had a great post above as well.


Because not everyone has there own equipment. Plenty of my larger neighbors here dont own a spray rig.Its your property, it's your responsibility to make sure the right stuff gets sprayed....( It is here anyway). Different countries different practices, like I said, wouldnt happen here.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> Like I said, down here contractors spray only. It is up to the farmer to supply the chemical, which we purchase from a retailer, who has agronomists on staff that provide advice and recommendations on what chem and rate to use. How else can you be 100% sure they have put the right stuff in the tank? As obviously hasnt happened in the OP.
> Agronomists have tertiary training in chemicals and weed identification. I dont know any contractors that have more than a chemical handlers certificate. Also one retailer / agronomist can service a much larger area servicing more farmers who spray themselves and several contractors as well.





Hay diddle diddle said:


> Because not everyone has there own equipment. Plenty of my larger neighbors here dont own a spray rig.Its your property, it's your responsibility to make sure the right stuff gets sprayed....( It is here anyway). Different countries different practices, like I said, wouldnt happen here.


After digging into Australia chem handlers requirements, it looks little more than a competency exam. Here in the US, custom applicators take the same agronomy courses as agronomists, they just don't spend 4 years doing it. We spray all of own chemicals, not because we don't trust the applicators, but why would I pay someone to do something I can do myself for cheaper? And honestly, I have to have a Pesticide Applicators license to buy my own chemical, and I guarantee there are many many others who have the same licensure that don't know 1/8 of what I do on chemicals, (and I don't know much, lol) And those guys are supposedly superior to the guy covering thousands of acres every year? Sounds to me like some people think too highly of themselves.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

Well the OP's "custom sprayer" clearly stuffed up royally. Only thing a contractor can get done for here is spray drift, not rinsing boom/ tank ( which as said would not affect whole field) or stuffing up the paddock directions. It's not his fault if the wrong chemical was applied as he was directed to. That is the agronomist or farmers fault (if he doesnt use an agronomist). Where I farm there is a myriad of different enterprises and crops. It's simply impossible to do more than 1 farmer at a time as everyone has different needs. I had 5 different recommendations on my farm alone this Autumn and I'm all pasture....


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I'll just leave this here.....

https://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/92938-dad-killed-his-lawn/


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

stack em up said:


> How is it asking for trouble? If I hired my spraying done but watched them load every load, why the hell wouldn't I just do it myself? Two of my brothers are custom applicators, both cover anywhere between 40,000 and 50,000 acres a year. Yes, they do get guys that buy their generic chem else where and have them spray. It's a higher application charge per acre since they aren't getting revenue from the chem. Do you buy the parts to repair something and take them to the mechanic or do you trust the technician to know what he will need for a certain job? 8350HiTech had a great post above as well.







That's why you keep an eye on them.......Your as negligent as them if you dont watch what there doing. It's your farm it's your responsibility. Different story if its spray drift from a neighbor.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> That's why you keep an eye on them.......Your as negligent as them if you dont watch what there doing. It's your farm it's your responsibility. Different story if its spray drift from a neighbor.


I understand what you're saying but if I had to micromanage every little thing it would drive me insane for one and waste lots of valuable time that could be focused on other pressing matters. If I was a hobby farmer with 30 acres I could do it but not even kind of smart to do with the acres I'm running


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Hay diddle diddle said:


> That's why you keep an eye on them.......Your as negligent as them if you dont watch what there doing. It's your farm it's your responsibility. Different story if its spray drift from a neighbor.


They are insured so it sucks but like in the video they owned up to it and were compensated.

It happens once in a great while.

Part of hiring spraying done is getting a hired man and why I hire spraying done I'm busy doing something else either planting or making hay.

A applicator has to be trustworthy and honest or he would get a bad reputation in a hurry and be out of bussiness,news travels fast!

Here custom applicators have top notch eq.Gps controlled etc.No overlaps that can be a issue with alot of chems.And another reason I hire it done.


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## Hay diddle diddle (Nov 17, 2017)

The only ones here that are left to there own devices are crop dusters when doing rice or the like. (Obviously cant use ground rigs in a rice field).


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

3string, Status update please.


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Thought I’d share what’s gone on with this deal. Lab results came back. Most likely Weedmaster was used. The rate is thought to be 2 quarts to the acre. Spray company still says they’ve turned my loss into their insurance. I was more than fair in my reported loss statement. I’m feeling as if I’m getting the run around a bit though. The law is involved as the company thinks they were vandalized. It’s just a big mess. I’m betting I’ll be the only one in this deal to really be hurt.


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## Palmettokat (Jul 10, 2017)

There is a limit to how long it should take for your loss to be settled. If you know who the insurance company is, most likely you can file a compalint with your state dept of insurance. They normally will ask the insurance company about your complaint and require a reply. It sure can build a fire under an insurance company.

Will be a shame if you do end up having to sue. Think the company would not want that for their reputation.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm thinking bs on the vandalism. Spray Op should have checked his tank prior to filling and should not have added chemical till heading out to apply. Operator is in care and control at all times. They likely are just covering their ass so the insurance company does not raise their rates or drop them.


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

carcajou said:


> I'm thinking bs on the vandalism. Spray Op should have checked his tank prior to filling and should not have added chemical till heading out to apply. Operator is in care and control at all times. They likely are just covering their ass so the insurance company does not raise their rates or drop them.


This is what I'm thinking. I'm trying to keep my cool, but the "we will call the insurance company today and let you know later on" is getting old. Like I say I get the feeling somethings up. Going on 2 months now and all I've got is one brown field.


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

Even *IF* the company was vandalized; it is still their responsibility and just changes the insurance claim on their part from neglect/mistake to vandalism. *IF" they were vandalized, it should be non-transferable to your loss instead of theirs... you weren't the one vandalized and should not be the one to pay the bill.

Just my thoughts.

Mark


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

3string said:


> This is what I'm thinking. I'm trying to keep my cool, but the "we will call the insurance company today and let you know later on" is getting old. Like I say I get the feeling somethings up. Going on 2 months now and all I've got is one brown field.


That's really frustrating & know what you mean about not feeling like you've been "made whole" again. I have a customer who owes me $3,500 on hay for 9 months. I hate the whole court/litigation process. Itll go to small claims court this fall.

On a separate note: you live in a beautiful place. My family loves vacationing in southern Utah. Beautiful scenery. Wonderful climate.


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## 3string (Sep 8, 2014)

Got fed up with excuses and got the claim number and adjusters number myself. Insurance company is not going to pay. The spray side of the business was not included in their plan. They’ve known for weeks that the insurance wasn’t going to help. I guess we’ll head down a different path now.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

See post #6. They are simply waiting upon you and to see if you will take any recourse....many don't.

Regards, Mike


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