# Long bermuda question



## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

I have just aquired a new field on a long term agreement. The field is mostly johnson grass and a few wild grasses and in a nice little creek bottom. My plan is to kill everything and plant bermuda. I grow only fescue now. I have people asking about bermuda and I've always wanted to try bermuda so this seemed like a good time to get into it. I am about 50 miles north of Atlanta and sell 95% of my hay to the horse market. Which variety of bermuda would you suggest? Also when would be the best time to start killing everything and start planting?


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

I hope that you have a written contract with *everything* spelled out, including the option to re-lease the site when this lease term ends.

Start killing everything now. If the J grass has gone to seed, more will regrow and need to be killed by disking this late summer/fall. Should more regrow after sprigging hybrid bermudagrass, there are chemicals that can remove J grass from hybrid bermudagrass.

If Tifton 85 bermudagrass survives where you are located, it is the obvious choice, but there are other finer stemmed hybrid bermudagrasses that may be better for the horse market. You can obtain the best information on this from your state forage specialist at UGA, Athens, Dr. Dennis Hancock.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Did you want to start this Bermuda grass from seed or sprigs?


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## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

I am leaning towards sprigs. From what I've been reading seeding has mixed results. Everything I see is leaning me towards Tift 44 or Tift 85. I just don't know which way to go. There are so many hybrids I just don't which one I need. Just wondering which one would better suite my horse customers.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I agree with talking to your Extension Agent. If there was any way you could grow Tifton 85, I would. It is a well sought after horse hay here. Tifton 85 produces more tons per acre than any other Bermuda grass field in these parts.


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## Williams Farms (Oct 1, 2010)

Around here we kill the field and disc it in the fall and sprig it in the spring. Tifton 85 is hard to beat but you have to cut it regularly or it will get stemmy real fast. It out produces all other hybrids here. The problem, at least in these parts is some people don't cut theres soon enough and let it get stemmy and people complain their horses wont eat it. It has given a good grass a bad reputation in some circles. I cut mine every 30 days and it produces good hay. Its hard to get new customers to try it because they bought some from so and so and there horses wouldn't eat it. My regular customers love it. I have tifton 85,jiggs and coastal. The tifton and jiggs out produce the coastal and the tifton out produces the jiggs a little. My favorite of the three is jiggs,it is more forgiving on the cutting schedule and produces well. I know you do not have jiggs in your area so i would recommend tifton 85 if you have the market for it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Squares or rounds?


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## terraceridge (Jul 21, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> I am leaning towards sprigs. From what I've been reading seeding has mixed results. Everything I see is leaning me towards Tift 44 or Tift 85. I just don't know which way to go. There are so many hybrids I just don't which one I need. Just wondering which one would better suite my horse customers.


I have heard a lot of good things about Tifton 85, so I would sprig that if possible. If not, I would plant coastal before I would plant Tifton 44.


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## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

I do both small squares and 4x5 rounds. My biggest worry with Tift 85 had been I had read it could be stemmy but I didn't know if this was due to not cutting on time or if the grass is just stemmier. I've only been around coastal so is the texture of coastal and T85 about the same?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> I do both small squares and 4x5 rounds. My biggest worry with Tift 85 had been I had read it could be stemmy but I didn't know if this was due to not cutting on time or if the grass is just stemmier. I've only been around coastal so is the texture of coastal and T85 about the same?


My advice would be Alicia, if you are strictly going for the horse market....Alicia in squares is a beautiful hay, none better in the Bermuda category, Tift 44 is a good looking grass as well, very fine stemmed like Alicia. If I was doing only rounds, I would suggest Tift 85 as it out yields them all and who cares, round bale customers don't really care as long as the horses eat it and they will, very high protein even the stems are higher than others...BUT if it gets managed properly, meaning nutrient wise, and gets plenty of H2O, it will get hard to deal with at about day 40, then you have cow hay.....most horsey customers don't like the tree trunks....some could care less. In these types of weather patterns it's real easy for grass to get beyond 29-31 days....it's a whole lot easier to deal with Alicia when that happens. Not going to yield as much....susceptible to rust, insects, etc. but overall a great grass, been around for a long time, stand will persist forever given proper management....

No experience with jiggs but I think it looks good in square as well...when dealing with the horsey crowd, packaging and appearance are key...good luck


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I have 20 acres of Alicia. You are correct, the horse people love it. Alicia was our bread and butter when we squared for the horse market.



somedevildawg said:


> My advice would be Alicia, if you are strictly going for the horse market....


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## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

I had thought about Alicia but had read where it was a little harder to get it started than other hybrids, is this true? Also I'm assuming you can spray for insects but what do you do about rust?


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> I had thought about Alicia but had read where it was a little harder to get it started than other hybrids, is this true? Also I'm assuming you can spray for insects but what do you do about rust?


I have read about Alicia not being as rust resistant as some of the newer Bermudas. We have never had a rust issue.

We prepared the ground, cut, spread and disked in the sprigs. Never had to resprig any.

I do not know if you can spray for rust. Never had to deal with it. Army worms will thrive on it though.


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## Williams Farms (Oct 1, 2010)

Georgiahayman tifton 85 has a little bigger stem than coastal but not a lot . People talking about it being stemmy is when it is cut to late, there is a big difference between 30 days and 40 to 45 days with it. Cut at 30 days it looks almost the same as coastal, just a little bit bigger stem but not stemmy. Check your area to see what sells best. I agree with above post about alicia, it is probaly some of the best looking hay in square bale i have ever seen. That being said not many fields of it are left around here. Most horse people around here don't have any idea what it is. I can sell coastal easier than tifton 85 around here, due to the stemmy reputation of 85. My best sellers are jiggs,coastal,bahia, and tifton 85 in that order. That is why i say check to see what sells best in your market. Tifton 85 does out produce all the others but it doesn't matter if you can't sell it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> I had thought about Alicia but had read where it was a little harder to get it started than other hybrids, is this true? Also I'm assuming you can spray for insects but what do you do about rust?


I don't think its any harder to start than any other hybrid, you mentioned you would be sprigging, during sprigging, they are all vulnerable. They need water during the process, I sprigged a field back during the drought and that was a challenge, this year would have been an awesome year to start a new field, course most fields are going the other way...back to rows. Rust is not a real big issue, most hybrids don't have a problem with it but Alicia is a bit more susceptible, occasionally I hear of it but not very often, like Tim said, army worms seem to thrive on it, and the Bermuda stem maggot gives it a 5-star rating.....but these are fairly common in the south, best with Alicia to watch closely and spray often, especially during July, August. With all Bermudas, field inputs are key, field needs to be limed properly and amended properly to achieve best results. Typically you will amend with 90-100 upa of N and about the same with K, 3-4 times a year....after each cutting usually. Some will plow in anhydrous at the first of the year at about 300-400 upa, but I haven't tried that as I can't seem to located anyone with the equipment. I believe vhaby might have applied anhydrous this year to his fields, you could check with him on that, regardless, Bermuda is a crop that is driven by inputs. Generally the Bermudas can use up about 3# of N per day per acre, I can spot a field that's not fertilized blindfolded (if there's a lil slit in it) I can also tell when it runs out, as is the case when it gets delayed in cuttin (like this year)


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Tifton is not a "horse quality" grass. If your going to plant sprigs for horse hay I'd go with common Bermuda and coastal mixed. 
But like somedevildog said, I'd go with Alicia too, we don't grow it in Texas but I've heard good things about it


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## 69zfarmer (Jun 17, 2012)

I have 25 acres of Vaughn's #1.named after Mr Vaughn who discovered this veriety in Mcminnville TN. I live in north central Alabama.It really makes the tonnage.I had Mr. Vaughn come down with clippings in the summer of 2011 and put in the first 8 acres and then in 2012 i grew my own clippings and put them out with a manure spreader for the other 17 acres.I put them out the 2nd week of June and disked them in deep and it did not rain for 4 weeks.I thought it was surely doomed but when it started raining in mid July it came up and covered the ground completely.I have been told most verieties do not work using this planting method.

It is pretty hard to cure when you cut it and costly to maintain but it will out produce any other grass around.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Alicia is a good bermudagrass, but it slumps and is difficult to mow. It is an excellent grazing bermudagrass.

I believe Tifton 85 is a better grazing grass also. It will cure standing after the frost and make a good stockpiled forage. February it will still be 12% CP, wnen most of the others are 4% protein in standing forage. .


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah tifton 85 is designed to be grazed. I know like hay Wilson said, we have one tifton patch and we cut it right around now and let it get some growth and use it as standing hay with a little liquid feed. 
I think your best bet is coastal or common Bermuda honestly that makes the best square bales


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Thought I'd let you see some Alicia in the field....

Pic 2 is Alicia at 20 days....note the line where the field gets sprayed......90upa N...70upa K...ph +-6.8

Pic 1 is winrow of Alicia at 31 days during cutting....

Pic 3 is Alicia 18 hours after cutting....it was cut late in the day....bout 5pm

You can probably see a storm approaching as these pics were from this year and its been like that all year...most of mine has been rounds this year...

Hope it helps...


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Man that's some beautiful looking grass...nice and fine...I bet that looks nice in a square bale. Hmmm, maybe I should look into raising some of that.


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

Devildawg, that kinda looks like common Bermuda? That's the closest I could compare it too. 
Good looking stuff tho! I don't think we've cut something that green this year lol


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Similar Colby really fine....on good hay days if you cut before 2-3 you can bale it the next evening at about 18%..... think it was a product of Texas originally from South Africa roots....but I'm not sure about that, just remember reading up on it before I sprigged it...


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Similar Colby really fine....on good hay days if you cut before 2-3 you can bale it the next evening at about 18%..... think it was a product of Texas originally from South Africa roots....but I'm not sure about that, just remember reading up on it before I sprigged it...


Yes it was developed in Texas by a man named Cecil Greer. Also correct about the South American input. The roots grow extremely deep and is why Alicia holds up so well in drought conditions.
Cecil named the grass after his granddaughter.


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## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

Devildawg that looks great! That seems to have the texture and look I was wanting. Thanks for taking time to take some pictures that really helps. I think Alicia is what I may go with. Just curious though why nobody likes the Tift 44. With me in North Ga I thought about 44 first because of our cooler temps in the mountians but nobody seems to like it. According to UGA it has as high protien and digestabilty as the others. Just wondering.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> Devildawg that looks great! That seems to have the texture and look I was wanting. Thanks for taking time to take some pictures that really helps. I think Alicia is what I may go with. Just curious though why nobody likes the Tift 44. With me in North Ga I thought about 44 first because of our cooler temps in the mountians but nobody seems to like it. According to UGA it has as high protien and digestabilty as the others. Just wondering.


Tifton 44 was the Bermuda of choice here for a few years. Then it seemed to fall by the wayside as more and newer Bermudas began to show up.

The only two negatives I have heard about 44 are yield and not enough rouphage.

The people I know harvesting T-44 seem happy with 75 bales per acre. It is still sold as horse hay here though many prefer T-85.

About 10 years ago there were some articles in horse magazines about some Bermudas not having enough stem to leaf ratio, or roughage. That was being blamed for stalled horses more prone to colic during the winter months when water intake is less.

T-44 being a very leafy Bermuda (which had always been desired) began to fall from grace in the eyes of some.


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## georgiahayman (Aug 14, 2011)

Ok I had wondered about that. You mentioned about the yield, about how many bales to the acre should I expect with the Alicia?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

georgiahayman said:


> Ok I had wondered about that. You mentioned about the yield, about how many bales to the acre should I expect with the Alicia?


I average about 2-2.5 tons per cutting....depending on ph, rainfall, heat, etc. bales per acre depends on size of course, I typically get about 75-80 pa but mine are 43-44" and 65-70lbs...

I'll defer to Tim's response on 44, I do have a crazy horsey lady that wants me to bale about 100 bales of Tift 85 each year for her roughage requirements, shouldn't take much of that to get all they need, lol

Another thing that will be of concern is where are fields located that you can obtain sprigs from, have you talked with anyone in the business of sprigging? Or are you going to sprig yourself? I paid a fella 150an acre to sprig Alicia, seedbed was prepared....sprigged in May. That may be the defining variable on your decision....


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

If we cut at 30 days then we got 75-80 bales per acre. It made beautiful horse hay.

Back then my father always wanted to let it get a little more stem and we cut at 40 -45 days. It would make 120 - 140 bales per acre. Dad got tired of more than 3 cuttings per year so he intentionally let it grow. We still got at least 4 cuttings. The 4th would not be as thick which is better in the Fall.


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## johndeerefarmer (Jun 22, 2009)

Colby said:


> Devildawg, that kinda looks like common Bermuda? That's the closest I could compare it too.
> Good looking stuff tho! I don't think we've cut something that green this year lol


I sure wouldn't plant common bermuda for hay. It's yield is less than the hybrids as is its cold tolerance and nutritional value.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

johndeerefarmer said:


> I sure wouldn't plant common bermuda for hay. It's yield is less than the hybrids as is its cold tolerance and nutritional value.


Think he was referring to the texture of the grass.....I believe jd has hybrids on their farm


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