# Sickle haybine cutting speed



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm getting ready to make the deal on a NH 499 I have been looking at but the only thing that is keeping me from doing so is the cutting speed. With the NH 1465 haybine I sold I simply could not cut over 3.5-4 mph and get a clean cut in any crop conditions.....thin or thick. I have read on here where a couple of you guys that are running or have run a NH 499 are able to cut 5-6 mph.....if I knew that it would cut clean at this speed in most conditions I would buy it. I can't help but to worry that it won't be able to cut any faster than the 1465 though. What is the key to getting a sickle haybine to cut at higher speeds? Do the type of guards have any influence on cutting speeds?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Proper adjustment of your reel is critical, if the speed is too slow it will cut ragged or bunch in front of the rollers, if too fast it will carry the crop over the top of the reel. Fore and aft is also important, I ran mine back far enough that the reel teeth had about two inches between them and the rollers.

If it doesn't already have the adjustable hold downs then get em, they make a world of difference.

Used to mow at 6mph routinely unless it was a down crop. Running a 1855 Oliver with a modified PTO, ran a 540 shaft with the tractor in a 1000rpm, ran half throttle all day long no problems.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

mlappin said:


> Proper adjustment of your reel is critical, if the speed is too slow it will cut ragged or bunch in front of the rollers, if too fast it will carry the crop over the top of the reel. Fore and aft is also important, I ran mine back far enough that the reel teeth had about two inches between them and the rollers.
> If it doesn't already have the adjustable hold downs then get em, they make a world of difference.
> Used to mow at 6mph routinely unless it was a down crop. Running a 1855 Oliver with a modified PTO, ran a 540 shaft with the tractor in a 1000rpm, ran half throttle all day long no problems.


 I'm not familiar with the adjustable hold downs......they aren't the same as stub guards are they? The 1465 had stub guards and they constantly gave me a fit, I never could keep them shimmed tight enough where they didn't get hay between the guard and knife and raise the guard up making an even more ragged cut.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I rebuilt my 499 this winter and added the SCH sickle. It made a world of difference on the swather and the flex head on the combine, so there's no reason it won't work for the 499.

I try to run about 5-5.4 cutting. In first cut alfalfa, I gotta slow down as it's usually a tangled mess towards the end, but sickle isn't an issue.

A word of advise for the 499. Check the u joints and hex shaft on the LH gearbox. If they're lose, don't hesitate to replace them. I diddled around trying to limp it through last year. Couldn't keep the rolls in time, it just wastes your time and tries your patience...


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

FarmerCline said:


> I'm not familiar with the adjustable hold downs......they aren't the same as stub guards are they? The 1465 had stub guards and they constantly gave me a fit, I never could keep them shimmed tight enough where they didn't get hay between the guard and knife and raise the guard up making an even more ragged cut.


No, I think he's talking about the hold-downs that go between the guards every third or fourth guard.

In the old days, they were just a sorta triangular metal clip that straddled two guard nuts behind the sickle, and had a hump in it to clear the rivets in the sickle sections to the knife back. You tightened those up basically by giving them a good smack with a BFH, to bend them down LIGHTLY against the knife, to push the sections down against the ledger plates of the guards.

The newer designs have some that are spring-loaded with an adjustment screw on them so that you can just adjust them to bear on the knife enough to keep it down against the guard cutting edges with a few turns of a wrench. Much more precise and easy to get a proper adjustment that way.

Basically, with modern cutters (old stuff from the 50's had too few strokes per minute to really get a good ground speed out of them, as you'd "outrun the sickle" if you drove too fast-- mostly talking pitman machines that you couldn't turn too fast without busting the stick...) they've increased the strokes/minute enough to get some pretty good ground speeds, BUT you HAVE to keep the sickle sections, guards, hold downs, shims, wear plates, knife register, knife stroke, etc. ALL in good shape and good adjustment or cutting efficiency, speed, and quality (raggedness) is going to suffer.

Later and good luck, hope this helps! OL J R


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

If speed is a concern, have you considered a disc mower?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

FarmerCline said:


> I'm not familiar with the adjustable hold downs......they aren't the same as stub guards are they? The 1465 had stub guards and they constantly gave me a fit, I never could keep them shimmed tight enough where they didn't get hay between the guard and knife and raise the guard up making an even more ragged cut.


Nah, these have an additional plow bolt with a clip on top of the hold down, tighten the nut on the plow bolt which pulls the clip down which then pushes the hold down closer to the knife, when adjusted properly you won't have hardly any play between the bottom of the knife section and the top of the guard which drastically improves the cutting action. Sometimes if I thought the cut was getting a little ragged a 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn on each hold down would make a difference.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

Don't remember if I posted this link in an earlier thread:

http://pami.ca/pdfs/reports_research_updates/(4e)%20Mowers%20and%20Mower-Conditioners/524.PDF

According to PAMI - 4 to 6 mph.

"Ground speed was limited by the cutting ability of the knife in most crops. In heavy damp fine stemmed crops ground speed was limited by the feeding ability of the conditioning rollers."

Hope this helps.

Bill


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

DSLinc1017 said:


> If speed is a concern, have you considered a disc mower?


 Yes, I have considered a disc mower conditioner but if I can get a sickle to cut 6 mph I would be satisfied with that.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

stack em up said:


> I rebuilt my 499 this winter and added the SCH sickle. It made a world of difference on the swather and the flex head on the combine, so there's no reason it won't work for the 499.
> I try to run about 5-5.4 cutting. In first cut alfalfa, I gotta slow down as it's usually a tangled mess towards the end, but sickle isn't an issue.
> A word of advise for the 499. Check the u joints and hex shaft on the LH gearbox. If they're lose, don't hesitate to replace them. I diddled around trying to limp it through last year. Couldn't keep the rolls in time, it just wastes your time and tries your patience...


 What are the advantages of a SCH sickle? I have heard of them before but don't have a clue as to what they are.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

http://sidist.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=5

https://sidist.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=861&CFID=3951580&CFTOKEN=52377367

Regards, Mike


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

I could average 4-6 mph with our old wore out 1475 no problem. 
It can be done


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

FarmerCline said:


> What are the advantages of a SCH sickle? I have heard of them before but don't have a clue as to what they are.


The way that the sections clean out, it doesn't jam up in fine stemmed grasses. The wobble boxes won't pound so dang hard. It does however, have a tendency of jamming corn stalks on the tip of the guards...


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

stack em up said:


> The way that the sections clean out, it doesn't jam up in fine stemmed grasses. The wobble boxes won't pound so dang hard. It does however, have a tendency of jamming corn stalks on the tip of the guards...


Have run SCH a 20 foot head cutting sorghum, our old 22 foot bean head and on the newer 30 foot head, they'll about cut anything and the splice kits are a godsend, the roller guides are also very nice, however we could actually cut faster with the double cuts that came as OEM on the older White/Massey heads. However the double cuts are about worthless in no-till as the stalks usually get pushed over as they can't fit far enough into the guard to get cut off then they tended to start to drag under the bean head, no problem with the SCH's but top speed is about 4.5 mph compared to 6 mph with the double cuts.

Looking into a pro drive for our head this fall and changing drive pulleys so maybe we can speed the sickle up a bit.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

My brother has always had New Holland sickle machines, 2200 series, 2300 series and HS series. In ideal conditions the 2300 series could push 7 or 8 mph. The HS series gave up some speed over the 2300. **I realize these heads are considerably different than a 499 head.** But they are sickles.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

mlappin said:


> Looking into a pro drive for our head this fall and changing drive pulleys so maybe we can speed the sickle up a bit.


Don't think about it, just do it. You can thank me later. ProDrive is smoooooth as butta, like butta.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Hayden, do you think it would be possible to lease/rent the machine this year?

Regards, Mike


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Vol said:


> Hayden, do you think it would be possible to lease/rent the machine this year?
> 
> Regards, Mike


 Unfortunately not, it's too far away for that to work out. Would have loved to be able to try it out before buying but I feel more confident about the cutting ability after reading the replys in this thread.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Dragging and rolling your fields will also help a sickle machine perform well. Nothing worse to cut with a sickle than lodged crop on a soft wet ridged field.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Dragging and rolling your fields will also help a sickle machine perform well. Nothing worse to cut with a sickle than lodged crop on a soft wet ridged field.


You just ain't tried cuttin with a sickle with a lodged fire ant bed on any field........


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> You just ain't tried cuttin with a sickle with a lodged fire ant bed on any field........


No idea what fire ant beds are, but I'll see your fire ants and raise you pocket gopher holes....


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

stack em up said:


> No idea what fire ant beds are, but I'll see your fire ants and raise you pocket gopher holes....


We have both.... You cant win this one!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Yes, I have considered a disc mower conditioner but if I can get a sickle to cut 6 mph I would be satisfied with that.


make sure you don't ever cut with a disc mower or even really watch someone else cut with one or you might find yourself not satisfied any longer.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Teslan said:


> make sure you don't ever cut with a disc mower or even really watch someone else cut with one or you might find yourself not satisfied any longer.


 Actually I first started out with a disc mower before buying a haybine.

Many of my fields are small and hilly so I can't take full advantage of the faster cutting speeds of a disc mower conditioner.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Everybody brags about how fast they can drive with the disc machine. I suppose they are not concerned at all about the hay drying. I try to keep it under 8. When I cut with our 1499, I think that was up to 6-7mph, but I had no speedometer, so it was just a guess. Notice I said 'up to.' The keys are always going to be crop that is standing straight, and conditions that are dry. If the ground was dry, the stalks were straight, and the knives were sharp, I could fly in an alfalfa field. That said, if it was wet and down...... It might have been closer to 2. A disc machine would still be moving at a good clip, but leaving 50% of the hay in the field.

Rodney


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Gearclash said:


> Dragging and rolling your fields will also help a sickle machine perform well. Nothing worse to cut with a sickle than lodged crop on a soft wet ridged field.


Yes there is something worse...

Two words: FIRE ANTS! Those mounds plug stuff up like nobody's business.

Later! OL J R


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