# NH 570 won't tie intermittently



## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

I have a new holland 570 that is new to me. Looked like a really good well kept baler when I bought it. Cut some grass hay down and when I went to bale, it wouldn't tie.

More specifically when I started the knot would tie, but would not release from the knotter. It appears the twine holder is adjusted properly, and the baler will tie fine for 5, 6, 7 bales then miss.

Sometimes the knot will hang, sometimes, it won't even tie the knot. It is happening intermittently on both sides, but more on one than the other.

Twine knives are sharp

Any ideas. Sorry I am new to New Holland and generally don't have a lot of experience with square balers. Had a JD 336 prior to this.

Thanks for any help, supposed to rain here tomorrow night


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## mgilbert61 (Nov 2, 2012)

Check this You Tube video out. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoB_1meRa9A

I saw this video in Jan, and getting ready to watch again.

Can't help you though ..SORRY ! Getting ready to run squares for the first time. Just picked up my 570 after running through the shop. Troubleshooting not my thing.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

It sounds like the wiper may not be pushing the knot off the bill hook.

I am not certain it is the same knotter as my older baler but if it is, you adjust the wiper by bending it up a tad to make more contact with the bottom of the bill hook and pushing the tied knot free.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

The brass roller at top of knife arm des it spin freely does it have flat spots or out of round


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

pnhigg, send a personal message to mike10. He is the most knowledgeable individual that I am aware of as far as square balers. I am sure he will give you a direct answer.

Regards, Mike


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Generally when I hear the knots are not being removed from the billhook I would suspect a problem with the knife arm. However, If I understand correctly from your post, when it misses at other times there is not a knot on either end of the twine. This is critical information on determiing the cause of a problem. The first thing you need to determine when you have a misstie is if there is a knot on one end of the twine. If there is a knot is the knot on the string on top of the bale or the string coming up the front of the bale.

For the time being I will go on the assumption there is no knot on either end of the twine. In a case like this I would suspect either the twine is old, undersized and inconsistent in diameter, baling to tight or too much tension on the twine holder. When the billhook rotates to form the knot, twine must be pulled from the bale or the twine disc. If the twine can be not pulled from twine disc the twine will tear leaving no knot on either end of the twine or will form the knot and then tear and the knife arm will not sweep it off the billhook.

The more common cause of knots hanging on the billhook relate to the knife arm or bill hook. If there are no grooves worn into the billhooks they can pretty much, in most situations, be eliminated as the casue. You said the knife on the knife arm is sharp but I would suspect otherwise. Yes, the knife will feel sharp over the lenght of the knife but the knife does it's cutting in the gullet where the knife intersect with the reinforcement plate on top of it. In this corner is where you need to check for sharpness, unfortunately you can not get your finger into the corner to feel it. When I service a baler for the season I replace the knves and rollers on the knife arm. Your knife is probably riveted to the arm. Grind the rivets off and remove the knife. The new knife kits come with bolts to reinstall the new knife. The roller controls how far the knife arm travels. After reinstallation of the knife arm in the knotter frame, you will need to check two adjustments. The knife arm should rub the billhook lightly when it rotates over it. If it does not rub then use a hammer and hit the knfe arm and recheck. If you go too far you can use a heavy screw driver and pry it back up. You won't break it. Next you need to check the throw of the knfe arm, how far it travels past the end of the billhook. As you rotate the knotter frame up the knife arm sweeps across the billhook. Find the point where the knife arm is at the extreme end of it's travel past the billhook. Hold the knotter frame in position and with your other hand move the knife arm back towards the billhook. When the roller of the knife arms contacts the hight point of the cam you will not be able to move it any more. I just apply pressure to the knife arm towards the billhook when rotating the knotter frame up and find the place where it is at the end of its travel. In this position the end of the knife arm should be 3/8" past the tip of the billhook. If it is less you can bend the knife arm to gain the required distance. You will then need to check if the knife arm still rubs the billhook, which it will not, and readjust as stated above.

Also pull some twine out of the twine box and make sure there is tension on it and just does not slide out easily. You don't need extreme tension but there should be some resistence when the twine is pulled.


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## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys.

Went through the manual and made sure everything was where is was supposed to be.

Also thanks Mike for the insight on the knives. No one was open yesterday to buy new ones, but I took the old off sharpened and bolted back on...that may very well have been the primary problem.

Baled 1125 and tied them all.

Thanks again


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Not sure if you are in a damp climate too but I don't grease my knotters as I store inside, every few years they will have a rough patch of surface rust on the hook that keeps the knots from coming off.


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## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

mike10 said:


> Generally when I hear the knots are not being removed from the billhook I would suspect a problem with the knife arm. However, If I understand correctly from your post, when it misses at other times there is not a knot on either end of the twine. This is critical information on determiing the cause of a problem. The first thing you need to determine when you have a misstie is if there is a knot on one end of the twine. If there is a knot is the knot on the string on top of the bale or the string coming up the front of the bale.
> 
> For the time being I will go on the assumption there is no knot on either end of the twine. In a case like this I would suspect either the twine is old, undersized and inconsistent in diameter, baling to tight or too much tension on the twine holder. When the billhook rotates to form the knot, twine must be pulled from the bale or the twine disc. If the twine can be not pulled from twine disc the twine will tear leaving no knot on either end of the twine or will form the knot and then tear and the knife arm will not sweep it off the billhook.
> 
> ...


Can you buy the knives and knife arm rollers seperately, or does NH require the entire knife arm?

Thanks


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

You can buy the knife and roller separately


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## S10491112 (Apr 11, 2013)

I know this is out there but I had that problem with my 565 NH and found one of the needle arm bolts loose. That was when the baler was a little over a year old.


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## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

Well went back to the field yesterday, and one side of my knotters tied well, and the other side would allow th know to pull out on every 8-10 bales.

The knot would be formed in the sting that comes up from the needles, but would be no knot on the string on the top side of the bale.

I replaced the knives, but had changed nothing else since baling previously.

I tightened the tension on the twine disk, as directed in the manual, but nothing changed. Also had the chamber tension relieved thinking maybe we were trying to bale too tight. Nothing seemed to change its behavior, though I am still learning how these things function

The knife arm movement appears to be in spec.

Any further thoughts.

thanks

Patrick


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Take the two twines from the missed bale and compare their length. If the missed side is noticeably shorter the twine is pulling out of the twine disc. Remove the twine holder tension spring, the flat spring. Rotate the holder out of the twine disc. If the holder is good it will have a nice quarter moon shape to it. If you see corners then the holder needs to be replaced. Also check the rivets holding the two parts of the twine holder together. They must be tight and allow no movement of one plate against the other. I would replace the holder and the flat spring.

If the twines are about the same length then you could have one twine breaking when the knot is being formed. Are you using new twine? Are you using sisal or plastic? There are many thin plastic twines out there which will cause you problems. If you are using sisal than the thinnest twine you should be using is 9000 ft.

If it is missing that often then I would have some one else running the baler while you watch what is happening at the twine disc and checking that the twine the needle brings up is on the front side and laying across the billhook. If the twine fingers are too far advanced the twine will be caught on the back side of the finger and not lay on the billhook.

The timing of the twine disc may also be retarded to a point the twine across the billhook is slipping off the billhook when it rotates. Many of these items can be seen by manually tripping the knotter and have someone manually turn the flywheel through a tying cycle with hay in the chamber. Difficult but doable. Remove all hay from the feeder to make it easier.

You might also want to switch the knife arms from one side to the other in case it is guiding the twine to far to the edge of the billhook.


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## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

Thanks again Mike.

I am using new twine. Plastic 9000.

I will check the twine length and twine disc as described.

I really appreciate you time and patience.

Patrick


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## pnhigg (May 1, 2009)

Update on the above topic and another question or two.

I checked the twine disk and it looked like it should and the timing of the disk appeared ok.

I asked around and found a guy who is a retired new holland dealer, who also did his own service work.

He basically said everything Mike did (which made me feel better). However, when he flipped the knotters up, his first comment was that he didn't like the looks of the knife arm. It was worn oddly where the string passes through. We replaced the arm, and that knotter makes a much better looking knot. What I mean by that is once the knot is made, there is a longer length of twine pulled through the knot than before replacement, and actually more than the other side.

I am not quite sure I understand what changing the knife arm would have changed with regard to the knot, as the twine lays over the bill hook in the same place as before.

I baled 1300 and there were 5 misses.

What is everyones opinion of a reasonable % for misses?

I also am pulling a kuhn mfg 1036f accumulator behind it if that makes any difference.

thanks a bunch for the help!

Patrick


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## Roger872 (May 26, 2020)

I have had this problem in the past. The twine is guided by the knife arm while the bale is been formed but when wrong holds the twine too far down the bill hook and when it tries to knot the twine disc twine slips off the opening end of bill hook and so only knots the twine from needle. This was an intermittent fault and took an awful lot of tracking down. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!


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