# another teff question



## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

I've got a neighbor who plants 500 acres of wheat, and we bale and market the straw. He and I were talking tonight and I was telling him about my teff plans. He now wants to plant his 500 acres to teff after the straw is off and he and I go in together and do the teff as we do the straw. So my questions are...

1 how does a wheat/teff rotation work?
2 how hard will it be to sell 600 acres of teff. His 500 and my 100

He has a jd 1590 and is a good farmer, so I know he will get a good stand. We were figuring we could get 2 cuttings before he goes back with wheat.

The only concern i have is cutting,raking,bailing,moving the bales then trying to move that much product. I've sent hay all over the south, and up north, and I've exported hay, but we are probably talking 2500-3000 3×4×8 bales. Is there really that much demand for teff?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

central va farmer said:


> Is there really that much demand for teff?


Not here....and it takes almost twice as long to dry down as cool season grasses.

Regards, Mike


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm planting Teff to get me some revenue off a newly cleared field for this summer. Not sure what goes in after that.

Just in reading - if you look at some of the dates of old posts on all forums, I get the impression teff was a "fad" grass - really pushed but not really taking a firm hold. It's good stuff, everyone says it's harder to dry down. I've found it to be somewhat a hard sell as no one has seen, touched or used it - kind of got to convince the buyer they need to walk by the OG or timothy to buy it - for the same price.

If I have some customers wanting it year in/out, I'll probably grow some of it going forward.

600 acres is a lot of teff.

Good luck,
Bill


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I can't remember if you have done Teff before? As Vol says it is a challenge to get dry. It challenged me 3 years ago. I can't imagine how it would be in a much more humid climate. When I did 30 acres 3 years ago I was surprised how many people knew about it in this area. I got one of my biggest customers from advertising my Teff. A big dressage horse stable bought some. Now they buy all their grass hay from me. Even when I didn't have good luck and baled some a little to green a cow guy bought all that. He knew about it and knew his cows did really well on it. I'm doing just 70 this year. I now have a tedder whereas I didn't 3 years ago so I'm hoping that will be a huge help getting it to cure. Just got done planting yesterday and hoping for rain so I won't have to start the pivot yet. I wouldn't say it is a fad grass, but just one that is kind of a challenge to grow and one you have to plant every year. So farmers including me sorta prefer typical orchard and brome. Although the fertilizer requirements are much less then grass. People that have tried it on their animals usually remember how good it is and look for it every year and buy if available. I would advise in any advertising you do make sure you have a forage test available for it. Also if advertising online link to teffgrass.com.

But man 600 acres. How big of an operation do you guys have? I mean number of balers, speed getting it out of the field. Because when it is ready to cut it will all be ready to cut. And it grows fast after cutting so you gotta get the cut off very fast. For that many acres I would recommend spacing out your planting dates so it wouldn't all be ready at the same time.

I will say I think it's a much better alternative then triticale and sudex type grasses that some around in this area grow once in awhile. Those you can't really sell into the horse markets.

You will have to ask a slightly less price then competing orchard grasses to get new people to try it though.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

That is a excellent response Teslan.

Regards, Mike


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

leeave96 said:


> I'm planting Teff to get me some revenue off a newly cleared field for this summer. Not sure what goes in after that.
> Just in reading - if you look at some of the dates of old posts on all forums, I get the impression teff was a "fad" grass - really pushed but not really taking a form hold. It's good stuff, everyone says it's harder to dry down. I've found it to be somewhat a hard sell as no one has seen, touched or used it - kind of got to convince the buyer they need to walk by the OG or timothy to buy it - for the same price.
> If I have some customers wanting it year in/out, I'll probably grow some of it going forward.
> 600 acres is a lot of teff.
> ...


That's my feelings as well. My own personal 100 acres is 25-30 acres new land/70-75 acres just rented land. The rented land needs killing and replant this fall. I think I can sell my 100 acres fairly easy as we are talking 400-500 tons. ( if it yields like people say it does) Now if his yields 4-5 tons to acre that's another 2000-2500 tons. That's alot of teff. If it's dry I think I can move it, if it's not dry I don't know...

I just hate to spend all of that money on fuel,twine,acid etc not to mention wear and tear on eq, just to send it off for Mulch hay. Mulch prices never pencil out well.

Looks like one hell of a experiment


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

Teslan said:


> I can't remember if you have done Teff before? As Vol says it is a challenge to get dry. It challenged me 3 years ago. I can't imagine how it would be in a much more humid climate. When I did 30 acres 3 years ago I was surprised how many people knew about it in this area. I got one of my biggest customers from advertising my Teff. A big dressage horse stable bought some. Now they buy all their grass hay from me. Even when I didn't have good luck and baled some a little to green a cow guy bought all that. He knew about it and knew his cows did really well on it. I'm doing just 70 this year. I now have a tedder whereas I didn't 3 years ago so I'm hoping that will be a huge help getting it to cure. Just got done planting yesterday and hoping for rain so I won't have to start the pivot yet. I wouldn't say it is a fad grass, but just one that is kind of a challenge to grow and one you have to plant every year. So farmers including me sorta prefer typical orchard and brome. Although the fertilizer requirements are much less then grass. People that have tried it on their animals usually remember how good it is and look for it every year and buy if available. I would advise in any advertising you do make sure you have a forage test available for it. Also if advertising online link to teffgrass.com.
> 
> But man 600 acres. How big of an operation do you guys have? I mean number of balers, speed getting it out of the field. Because when it is ready to cut it will all be ready to cut. And it grows fast after cutting so you gotta get the cut off very fast. For that many acres I would recommend spacing out your planting dates so it wouldn't all be ready at the same time.
> 
> ...


That was another concern I had was getting it done in a timely matter. I can cut a good 120-130 acres a day.(swather with 16ft disc header) 6 basket krone tedder (pos in my opinion highly overrated) new holland 3x4 big baler ( I love it) krone rotary rake (rakes around 30 ft) wheel rake (12 wheel) and several loader tractors to move bales.

I can bale alot of hay in a day. I've tossed around the idea of buying another big baler and running 2 but that's alot of money, and I'm not gonna do that for this one deal.

I have never planted teff Teslan, it will be new to me. I've had people ask for it but it's the people that buy a couple bales a year. I would feel better if the people that buy a couple tractor trailers a year asked for it.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

central va farmer said:


> That was another concern I had was getting it done in a timely matter. I can cut a good 120-130 acres a day.(swather with 16ft disc header) 6 basket krone tedder (pos in my opinion highly overrated) new holland 3x4 big baler ( I love it) krone rotary rake (rakes around 30 ft) wheel rake (12 wheel) and several loader tractors to move bales.
> 
> I can bale alot of hay in a day. I've tossed around the idea of buying another big baler and running 2 but that's alot of money, and I'm not gonna do that for this one deal.
> 
> I have never planted teff Teslan, it will be new to me. I've had people ask for it but it's the people that buy a couple bales a year. I would feel better if the people that buy a couple tractor trailers a year asked for it.


I think it's horsey people where you will find your best buyers. But 3x4s are a hard sell in this area for horse people. 3x3s are better (what I do). Not that you would change as it's pricey. I have a 6 basket NH tedder that I think is a POS. I'm sure the Krone is better then that thing. It appears yours and my setup is about the same though I have a 3x3 baler. It's not really the cutting that is hard. Cuts as easy as anything else. Here's my maybe rule of thumb. When you think the Teff is cured. Wait a day more. Also despite what teffgrass.com says. I would cut it about 3 inches not the recommended 4 inches so it doesn't grow back quite as fast. Gives you more time to cure and get it off the field. Also cut with a little more headed out then they say so it will cure a bit faster as well.


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

Teslan said:


> I think it's horsey people where you will find your best buyers. But 3x4s are a hard sell in this area for horse people. 3x3s are better (what I do). Not that you would change as it's pricey. I have a 6 basket NH tedder that I think is a POS. I'm sure the Krone is better then that thing. It appears yours and my setup is about the same though I have a 3x3 baler. It's not really the cutting that is hard. Cuts as easy as anything else. Here's my maybe rule of thumb. When you think the Teff is cured. Wait a day more. Also despite what teffgrass.com says. I would cut it about 3 inches not the recommended 4 inches so it doesn't grow back quite as fast. Gives you more time to cure and get it off the field. Also cut with a little more headed out then they say so it will cure a bit faster as well.


Thanks for info, Teslan. I sell 3x4 bales to larger Horse people, but alot of my business is dairy folks, with some cow men mixed in.
Krone tedder won't ted dry hay that got rained on. If you have some you want to scatter out it won't do it. As long as it's green it does a good job. Right a $20k and I can do better with a pitchfork piece of sh$t. I'm thinking hard on trading it on vermeer 6 basket.
I've got to run I'll check back on forum tonight, I'm getting ready to do my charity work today ( by giving calves away, to the poor buyers) lol


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

CVF-Teslan's and my attitude is about the same. For us here in the east, wait at least a day after you are sure it is ready. 3 " stubble is about right for here also but I like to cut it at about 20" and it is ready again in about 30 days. At 20" height, less than 10% is headed out. Last year it was all headed and the horses did not like it as well. Now you might want to think about green chopping it for the dairies especially if someone has a big Claas around you. Very high protein. Green chop would also solve the get it off now regardless of weather problem. I would guess you would wilt it a day and a half but I am not sure. I made some green bales my first year and feeder calves ate it like candy. Whatever you do, I would not take the teff plunge at that level for the first year as it is a learning experience to get to understand teff. It is as Teslan said, totally unforgiving-needs to be cut when it needs to be cut and then gotten up, no tarrying, as it is regrowing the minute you cut and drop it. rick


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

Hayman1 said:


> CVF-Teslan's and my attitude is about the same. For us here in the east, wait at least a day after you are sure it is ready. 3 " stubble is about right for here also but I like to cut it at about 20" and it is ready again in about 30 days. At 20" height, less than 10% is headed out. Last year it was all headed and the horses did not like it as well. Now you might want to think about green chopping it for the dairies especially if someone has a big Claas around you. Very high protein. Green chop would also solve the get it off now regardless of weather problem. I would guess you would wilt it a day and a half but I am not sure. I made some green bales my first year and feeder calves ate it like candy. Whatever you do, I would not take the teff plunge at that level for the first year as it is a learning experience to get to understand teff. It is as Teslan said, totally unforgiving-needs to be cut when it needs to be cut and then gotten up, no tarrying, as it is regrowing the minute you cut and drop it. rick


Thanks for feedback on the height of cutting, va tech says between 20-24 inches, that's right in there with what you said. 
I'm going to take the plunge on my 100 acres, as far as my neighbor goes I'm going to go by and talk to him and talk pros and cons. If he buys the seed and puts it in, I'll probably cut and bale. I'm just worried about moving that much material. I figure my twine,acid,and fuel costs will be about on par with his seed costs. That's alot of money to have out with no ready market for the product. CON
I'm just thinking long term on my operation. I don't kill sod every single year so teff will be a once every few years endeavor for me.
If he does this as a true rotation every year I will be able to market teff every year the same as alfalfa, timothy,orchard grass etc. I would be a true one stop shop for hay and straw. PRO
for curiosity sake what do you get for it a ton? Several good friends of mine sell it between $200-300 ton. 
At $200 a ton it is profitable, $250-300 is a home run.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I was selling for 7 a bale and they were 45-50#. My horse customers don't want heavy bales but teff will push the envelope as will orchard. Timothy and mixed grass not so much. I just don't feel like changing my bale length constantly. If cut at 20-22 inches and baled at 16%, you can really pack a bale with teff. all leaf, it is dense


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

Hayman1 said:


> I was selling for 7 a bale and they were 45-50#. My horse customers don't want heavy bales but teff will push the envelope as will orchard. Timothy and mixed grass not so much. I just don't feel like changing my bale length constantly. If cut at 20-22 inches and baled at 16%, you can really pack a bale with teff. all leaf, it is dense


Why is it so hard to cure? Those prices are in there with my friends.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

central va farmer said:


> Why is it so hard to cure? Those prices are in there with my friends.


It is just the nature of it. It easily rehydrates. It may feel dry to your hands like any other grass, but then a moisture tester will tell you a little different. But if you are like me you will trust your hands more then the moisture tester.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Hayman1 said:


> CVF-Teslan's and my attitude is about the same. For us here in the east, wait at least a day after you are sure it is ready. 3 " stubble is about right for here also but I like to cut it at about 20" and it is ready again in about 30 days. At 20" height, less than 10% is headed out. Last year it was all headed and the horses did not like it as well. Now you might want to think about green chopping it for the dairies especially if someone has a big Claas around you. Very high protein. Green chop would also solve the get it off now regardless of weather problem. I would guess you would wilt it a day and a half but I am not sure. I made some green bales my first year and feeder calves ate it like candy. Whatever you do, I would not take the teff plunge at that level for the first year as it is a learning experience to get to understand teff. It is as Teslan said, totally unforgiving-needs to be cut when it needs to be cut and then gotten up, no tarrying, as it is regrowing the minute you cut and drop it. rick


 Don't forget the fact that if the weather doesn't let you cut it when it needs to be and it ends up fully heading out that it doesn't regrow enough to amount to anything. Teff is kind of hard to pencil out if you only get one cutting.


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

FarmerCline said:


> Don't forget the fact that if the weather doesn't let you cut it when it needs to be and it ends up fully heading out that it doesn't regrow enough to amount to anything. Teff is kind of hard to pencil out if you only get one cutting.


Very good point


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## central va farmer (Feb 14, 2015)

Teslan said:


> It is just the nature of it. It easily rehydrates. It may feel dry to your hands like any other grass, but then a moisture tester will tell you a little different. But if you are like me you will trust your hands more then the moisture tester.


You know Teslan, I've learned over the years with the big square baler to wait another day anyway. They are not as forgiving as a round baler


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

"]It is just the nature of it. It easily rehydrates. It may feel dry to your hands like any other grass, but then a moisture tester will tell you a little different. But if you are like me you will trust your hands more then the moisture tester

Yep, heavy dew and it Is like starting the drying cycle all over. Best harvest window is a Bermuda high with mid 90s but catching that or two low humidity days with 20mph winds doesn't usually coincide with first cutting


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## kenanselm (Mar 15, 2016)

This is my first year with Teff, two cuttings so far. I did not get a very good stand with a Haybuster on 7 inch centers. I wonder if a slit seeder like a Land Pride OS15 on 2 inch centers would be better? Also wonder if the dry down would be cut shorter using a conditioner? Also had problems with lodging, wonder if a Haybine with a reel would be best?


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I got good stands with my brillion till and seed which would be similar to the landpride unit. you need to cut before heading here in the east to minimize lodging and maintain high protein levels in the hay made. unfortunately easier said than done given the weather we have. cutting before heading if you plant early means about June 25 and often that is not teff making weather yet.


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