# Round bale burning boiler



## carcajou

I like the idea of heating the house and shop this way. Just starting to do some research into this and i'm wondering if any of you do this. I plan on building my own so any ideas would be appreciated.


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## urednecku

Not needing anything like that here in sunny Fl I've never thought of it, but a google search showed a bunch of 'em.


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## swmnhay

I seen a article about them in Farm Show a few yrs back.I think they were also drying corn with one.Cornstalk bales,waste hay,CRP hay.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

They showed one last year I think, on Prairie Farm Report.


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## Nitram

With today's corn stocks being like small saplings I would think they would be worth the heat


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## Vol

I know a 1000 lb. roll of fescue will burn several days just sitting outside. I use them occasionally when I want to remove a stump. Just set the bale on the stump....light and burn it into the ground completely. Real big stumps might take 2 rolls. They flare up big when first lit...then settle to a slow burn once the outside is charred. Send us some pics Ray when you start building your round bale stove.

Regards, Mike


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## CockrellHillFarms

A couple of questions to ponder. 1) How will you block the smell 2) I would think you would also need a way to block the embers from coming into the duct work.


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## mlappin

CockrellHillFarms said:


> A couple of questions to ponder. 1) How will you block the smell 2) I would think you would also need a way to block the embers from coming into the duct work.


Duct work???

I have thought about this in the past, but lately their is no such thing as junk hay in our area, even CRP is selling decent. Have a grinder now so just burning corn stover bales seems foolish now when the wear and tear on the baler is figured in and the loss of nutrients from the field.

IF I was too built one I'd built it just like the last two wood boilers I have built but larger. I would figure an ash drawer wood be an absolute must.

Far as smell, place it what would normally be down wind from the house and out buildings.

I did build several prototype corn boilers as well. But once corn got much over $2.50 a bushel it makes more sense to buy wood even than burn corn.

I'll stick to wood, the help and I cut 6 pickup loads of wood in about three hours today. We cheated though, power company came thru and widened the right a way about two years ago so I had pre cut logs on both sides of the right a way. Laid 4 or 5 small pole trees down then used the grapple on the skid steer to carry the logs over and laid em 90 degrees to the poles so didn't have to worry about getting saw chains into the dirt. Had the hired man and his oldest boy both running saws, as they got it cut I loaded the pickup with the dump bed with the grapple, get the bed full run a half mile up to the house and dump it then head back to reload. Unless it gets bitterly cold those six loads will last the rest of this winter.

Next job is we are completely removing the trees on about 3/8 of a mile on our section of the railroad right away. Has what used to be a tile that runs along there and it's so full of roots no hope of cleaning it. It also had a small ditch that is almost completely full of silt and tree branches. Just gonna rip the trees clear out and lay a new tile and then plant a grass water way instead of re digging the ditch.


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## carcajou

Most years we have an excess of spring wheat, barley and oat straw available, no reason i can't throw logs in there too but i like the idea of keeping the manual labor down esp when i'm away working.


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## mlappin

I'd also think just like my corn boiler prototypes, you'd also have to have blower on your boiler as well to make any kind of round bale burn. On my corn boilers all I'd have to do is kill the supply of fresh corn and air and they'd smolder forever with very little heat output.


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## carcajou

Marty

What water/coolant temp do you try to maintain with your boiler? I'm getting conflicting opinions. Some say 95-100 degrees, others up to 135. Also, what do you think of using 3/8 wall steel for the firebox? I have a line on a couple old anhydrous storage tanks but maybe steel of this thickness will impede heat transfer to the coolant.


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## mlappin

carcajou said:


> Marty
> 
> What water/coolant temp do you try to maintain with your boiler? I'm getting conflicting opinions. Some say 95-100 degrees, others up to 135. Also, what do you think of using 3/8 wall steel for the firebox? I have a line on a couple old anhydrous storage tanks but maybe steel of this thickness will impede heat transfer to the coolant.


It all depends on how your extracting the heat from the boiler in the building your heating.

I have forced air in the house and your heat exchanger basically looks like an oversized heater core out of a car or truck. Most of this winter I've run my boiler at 150 degrees and the house has stayed a nice toasty 71 degrees. With the bitter weather coming I've turned the water temp up to 180 degrees. _But _I've only got a third of the windows in this old farm house replaced with vinyl double panes and I'm sure it can stand more insulation in the attics. One interesting thing though, we replaced the windows on the south and west side last February and turned the thermostat down a degree from 72. Cut enough drafts with the new windows that 72 felt a little on the warm side. A buddy of mine just finished his house addition/remodeling, all new windows, more insulation, house wrap, etc. and runs his boiler at 150 and heats it just fine.

If you have concrete floors with heat tube in them then the water needs to be a little warmer than your desired air temp from how I understand it.

Our hired man has a Central Boiler with radiators in his house, most of the winter he needs to run his boiler between 160-180 to keep the house comfy.

The heavier the material the longer your recovery time, or to put it simply the longer it will take for your fire to heat the material up enough to start adding heat to the water. I was using 5/16 mild steel for the firebox in the few boilers I've built but have found over the years it won't be the fire box itself that rots out but instead the door or where the stack exits. These areas tend to run cooler and collect a lot more condensation. Partly my fault for making the air cooled doors work to well. The replacement I'm going to start on is going to have a water cooled door, should eliminate any condensation and I won't have to build it near as heavy.

I build the firebox first then pressurize it before cutting the door hole, use soaps suds to check for any pinholes. Tedious part is checking the water jacket for leaks, the water will have to be drained to fix any pinholes in the water jacket. After draining take a torch and heat the area up to get any water out of the weld or it will blow out when trying to weld over it from the water turning to steam. Use another tank to hold your test water when you pump it out and add a bottle of dishwashing detergent when leak testing, the detergent makes water wetter, if it doesn't leak with soapy water it won't leak with regular water.

A few last tips, I consider myself a fairly accomplished welder, I still had maybe 6 or 8 pin holes to fix in my firebox than maybe a dozen or better in my water jacket on my first boiler. The next one I built I bought a needle scaler to clean all the joints before welding. Even being brand new shiny metal still has enough mill scale or dirt to create voids in a weld. Second one with using the needle scaler I had two leaks in the firebox and 5 on the water jacket.

Second tip, get yourself some tri gas to weld with. Has the standard co2 and argon but adds some o2 as well. When using the tri gas turn your heat up, turn your wire speed up then monkey with both and the result will be practically a spray weld. You won't hear the frying bacon sound and instead will have a steady hiss or whoosh sound. Very hot and penetrates very deep, if not careful you can blow clear thru 1/2 plate. But results in a very clean and fast weld. Requires a very good gun though. I'm running a 400 amp gun on my 250 amp welder. I also ran .045 wire on everything but the water jacket. Ran .035 and standard co2 and argon gas on the jacket.


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## carcajou

Thanks Marty I appreciate the advice, i never would have thought of adding soap to the test water.


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## Mike120

Marty,

You should be able to accomplish the same thing with Argon and 20% or less CO2. The O2 can cause a oxide reaction, increase porosity potential and may be the source of your pin holes. The shipyards do a lot of spray transfer on carbon steel and none of them (that I've been in) use a three part gas. Three-part gas is also more sensitive to mill scale or surface contaminates. You'll have to tinker with it but two-part is usually a lot cheaper than three-part.


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## mlappin

Thanks Mike, I went out and checked and the tri-gas is a 89% argon, 8.5% CO2 and 2.5% O2 mix. Doesn't say what the mix is on my Argon/Co2 tank is.


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## mlappin

Two other things if you build your own, get one of the additives from another manufacturer. I've used the stuff from Woodmaster since building mine, solid yet (far as I know). My buddy had his brother in law build him one, water jacket rusted out already and it's three years newer than mine.

Add a vent pipe to the water jacket. Mine is a piece of 3/4 galvanized pipe 30" long, then I took a 3/4 pipe cap and cut the threads out on the lathe. Before placing the cap on the boiler I took a file and cut a small notch in the end of the pipe so it can't seal the pipe off when in place. The length of pipe stays cool and lets any steam from the water condense and run back into the water jacket. I never have to add water while I'm using it during the winter but may have to add some in the fall if it's been a dry hot summer with a lot of low humidity


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## Gearclash

I think my welding gas is 75% CO2 / 25% argon.


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## mlappin

Gearclash said:


> I think my welding gas is 75% CO2 / 25% argon.


That sounds about right.


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## Mike120

Usually C25 is 75% argon and 25% CO2, pretty much the standard for MIG on carbon steel. The argon is the better conductor. The 25% CO2 is too much for spray transfer (unstable arc) and you need to be below 20%. A typical mix is 90-10 but it depends on the welder and material. I can crank out the voltage and amps to go to into spray but only for a short time before I bump up against the duty cycle. I just go to stick for heavier steel, but I'm not building boilers like Marty where spray is much more appropriate. When I get rich from the horsey and hay businesses I'll upgrade my MIG welder and buy a gas mixer.......


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## mlappin

I have an advantage with my machine as it's 100% duty cycle. We used to get our gas from Mittler supply and their tanks had the mix on them, Prax Air bought em out and it just lists CO2 and Argon, no percentage. I'll have to check with them and see if 90% Argon and 10% CO2 is offered.

Found an interesting site on the different gas mixes. http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm


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## Mike120

Yep, Ed Craig pretty much wrote the books on MIG welding gas. He's one of the people that convinced me that you could MIG anything (except thin aluminum) with the right gas mix and welder controls. He's somewhat of a character, but knows his stuff. If you invest in a Smith gas mixer (I really want a Thermco but can't justify it) you can buy even cheaper 100% bottles, tinker with the percentages and find the sweet spot for anything you want to weld. I would love to have a 100% duty cycle machine but I rarely get into a problem because I just go to stick for the thick stuff and that doesn't happen very often. I've got a local guy who will mix me small bottles to play with but I can do almost anything I need with C25 or straight argon.


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## Gearclash

My bad. Mike120 is right, the percentage is 75% Argon 25% CO2. I have never tried anything else for steel. Use 100% Argon for aluminum and Helistar for stainless.


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## Mike120

C25 is a standard mix. You could probably tweek it but you're better off messing with the amps/volts. You should be able to do stainless with 98-2. I've got Ed's book in a box somewhere around here. I used to use it as a reference when I was involved with fabricating do-dads made out of exotic metals. In a sterile facility we'd bore scope the SS pipe...We jokingly referred to it as "bus handle pipe". If you could see the weld it was bad. Drove the contractors nuts, but it was necessary.


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