# Balers



## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

Guys Ive been looking at new or newer balers and I see a lot of ya'll have JD's listed. JD's new and used have consistantly been priced quite a bit higher than any other brand. I'm leaning towards a Vermeer 504M classic with net if I go new but I would sure love to hear the pros and cons any of you have on any and all balers. Are the JD's really worth the price difference?

I took a 552 Ford baler that I bought cheap, changed a few bearings, replaced belts and worked it like a dog last summer, made good bales but was slow as Christmas tying. I had hell selling 5x5 or 5x6 bales since nobody wants to transport them so I squeezed the walls in and shortened the bale starter roller so I can bale the 4x5's most folks want. Now if I can adapt a better tie or net wrap system to it I will have a good backup baler if I get another one. Anybody know where a good baler salvage place is where I can get a good used net or dual tie system?


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## hillrunner (Jan 23, 2011)

Everyone has 5x6 balers around here and the Deere 568 is king. I think we will see some more Vermeer 605 super m in coming years.The powered wind guard seems to make them an animal in corn stalks and that is 90% of the baling done around here. 
I have a NH br780, it's a good baler but cannot keep up with the new Vermeer or 568 Deere's in corn stalks. On my best day I can run 7 mph, I am told the Vermeer can clear 12 mph, and the Deere is close behind. The Deere will also pick up tough hay better which allows you to bale stalks through the night.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

I won't be doing any stalks, it will be all grass. With the money it costs to get a decent baler I want to be sure I don't regret a purchase and spend more time fixing it than baling. It amazes me that a JD can be $15 - $20K higher than a Vermeer and actually be worth it. I here good stuff about JD's from folks that put up a lotta hay so they at least have me looking.


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## LaneFarms (Apr 10, 2010)

The new Vermeers are not that much cheaper than a JD. I believe around here a 604 was running 28-29k and a 468 was 30-32k. We run JD's but I would personally not have a problem with a 604 Vermeer. Most of the rest of our hay equipment is Vermeer.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

LaneFarms said:


> The new Vermeers are not that much cheaper than a JD. I believe around here a 604 was running 28-29k and a 468 was 30-32k. We run JD's but I would personally not have a problem with a 604 Vermeer. Most of the rest of our hay equipment is Vermeer.


List price on a Vermeer 605SM with net,scale,moisture sensor,work lights.no twine.

$50,017 the power feed option for stalks is around $3500

A 604 is not much less.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm only going to be putting up 4x5 bales. I priced a new 504M Classic Automatic with net at $26K and scroll through equipmentfinder.com and look at 458 and 468 JD's used and look how they are priced... I don't doubt a JD is a fine machine but is there really that much difference? My mistake may be looking for a used baler with dealers instead of individuals. I know they sure can't be giving anywhere near what they are asking in trade in value.


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## Hay DR (Oct 28, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> List price on a Vermeer 605SM with net,scale,moisture sensor,work lights.no twine.
> 
> $50,017 the power feed option for stalks is around $3500
> 
> A 604 is not much less.


List means nothing, it is what you can purchase one for.
That 605-SM has a $1,800 rebate on it now. Without the stalk power feed that baler should sell in the $37-38K range. The stalk special is designed for the custom corn stalk operator. It will bale at 14 mph.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

dixietank said:


> I'm only going to be putting up 4x5 bales. I priced a new 504M Classic Automatic with net at $26K and scroll through equipmentfinder.com and look at 458 and 468 JD's used and look how they are priced... I don't doubt a JD is a fine machine but is there really that much difference? My mistake may be looking for a used baler with dealers instead of individuals. I know they sure can't be giving anywhere near what they are asking in trade in value.


Thats about what you can pick a new BR7060 for if the dealer likes yah. I was shot a price of $29700 for a BR7060 Silage Special last spring sans bale slice.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

Hay DR said:


> List means nothing, it is what you can purchase one for.
> That 605-SM has a $1,800 rebate on it now. Without the stalk power feed that baler should sell in the $37-38K range. The stalk special is designed for the custom corn stalk operator. It will bale at 14 mph.


OK but what about the 504M claasic with net, gathering wheels and bale monitor? I priced through a different dealer today and it was around $23K with net, $20K twine and $850 discount if cash deal. Man I wish you were closer, I saw some stuff on your site that got my interest.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

I'll hafta look again but I think that also included the bale kicker ramps. (And I don't do stalks)


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

mlappin, my next trip to Ft Wayne I'll stop in for beer and 9 ball...lol


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Hay DR said:


> List means nothing, it is what you can purchase one for.
> That 605-SM has a $1,800 rebate on it now. Without the stalk power feed that baler should sell in the $37-38K range. The stalk special is designed for the custom corn stalk operator. It will bale at 14 mph.


I agree list doesn't mean a whole lot but it is the starting point.I wish they would just give you a decent price to start with instead of the dickering,rebates,etc.This goes for machinery,vehicles,etc.

My Vermeer dealer and Dodge dealer have been that way.Give you a decent price and that is pretty much it.They may throw in a few options at cost.I lost my Dodge dealer in the dodge dealer closings and am going to hate dealing with a big chain dealer that starts out at list and you have to dicker for hours to get a deal.And get the "so much a month" crap out of their sales pitch.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

dixietank said:


> mlappin, my next trip to Ft Wayne I'll stop in for beer and 9 ball...lol


From Fort Wayne head west on 30 till you hit US 31, head north till you hit State Road 4, turn west again, we're five mile off of 31 on 4.

Make it a Wednesday, buck beer nights at the VFW.

I've seriously considered Vermeer in the past, but the nearest and only dealer around for me is in Rochester which is at least a 40 minute drive. They're working on a US 31 bypass now and State Road 4 ends at 31 and turns into Pierce Road and doesn't even go clear to Wyatt where the New Holland dealer is at as it stops for a swamp. There going to finish Pierce road and widen so when its all finished what used to be a 15 minute drive to the New Holland dealer will be more like 10 as Pierce road practically goes right by their driveway. Another big plus is even though Wyatt Farm Center lost it's Agco line, they still carry parts for Agco so while getting any hay parts I can still get combine, planter, and tractor parts while there.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Wow! I've been running NH equipment because of proximity to the dealer.

I just looked at the Vermeer website and had no idea that Vermeer had bale weight sensor and moisture sensor built into their round baler.

NH engineer guys (I Know you're listening)--you better catch up! Those are features I'd really like to have!

Ralph


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## Hay DR (Oct 28, 2009)

dixietank said:


> OK but what about the 504M classic with net, gathering wheels and bale monitor? I priced through a different dealer today and it was around $23K with net, $20K twine and $850 discount if cash deal. Man I wish you were closer, I saw some stuff on your site that got my interest.


Off the record the 664 Rancher will eventually replace the 504M Classic. They are very close in price but the Rancher is the latest and greatest.


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## Hay DR (Oct 28, 2009)

mlappin said:


> From Fort Wayne head west on 30 till you hit US 31, head north till you hit State Road 4, turn west again, we're five mile off of 31 on 4.
> 
> Make it a Wednesday, buck beer nights at the VFW.
> 
> I've seriously considered Vermeer in the past, but the nearest and only dealer around for me is in Rochester which is at least a 40 minute drive. They're working on a US 31 bypass now and State Road 4 ends at 31 and turns into Pierce Road and doesn't even go clear to Wyatt where the New Holland dealer is at as it stops for a swamp. There going to finish Pierce road and widen so when its all finished what used to be a 15 minute drive to the New Holland dealer will be more like 10 as Pierce road practically goes right by their driveway. Another big plus is even though Wyatt Farm Center lost it's Agco line, they still carry parts for Agco so while getting any hay parts I can still get combine, planter, and tractor parts while there.


 Vermeer is coming to a Kubota dealer near you. This alliance is good for Vermeer and potential customers but it also puts non-Kubota Vermeer dealers at a disadvantage.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:



> Wow! I've been running NH equipment because of proximity to the dealer.
> 
> I just looked at the Vermeer website and had no idea that Vermeer had bale weight sensor and moisture sensor built into their round baler.
> 
> ...


I'm going to try adding the weigh spindles and the hitch weigh bar to my BR740A this spring. Shouldn't be anymore difficult than adding a weigh kit to a grain cart.



Hay DR said:


> Vermeer is coming to a Kubota dealer near you. This alliance is good for Vermeer and potential customers but it also puts non-Kubota Vermeer dealers at a disadvantage.


Don't have a Kubota dealer that close either. The ones that are from what I can tell are little hole in the wall lawnmower shops.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm with rjmoses, New Holland needs to tighten up. After looking at the Vermeer site, I am impressed! All I could remember about them from years ago, was my neighbor trying to unwrap the hay from the belts of his Vermeer. Funny how some things stick in your mind and you never take another look. That's what they say about first impressions. I may have to go yellow LOL.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

Vermeer sure has my attention now!


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

Hay Dr, I'd sure like to talk with you as it seems you know your Vermeer stuff.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> I'm going to try adding the weigh spindles and the hitch weigh bar to my BR740A this spring. Shouldn't be anymore difficult than adding a weigh kit to a grain cart.


Tell me more what you have in mind! If appropriate, I might do the same to my BR780A. I really want to track production in tonnage by field.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Tell me more what you have in mind! If appropriate, I might do the same to my BR780A. I really want to track production in tonnage by field.
> 
> Ralph


Was my plan as well and will be _a lot_ cheaper than a on farm scale. I'll also use it so I know exactly what the bales weigh so I can properly set my Harvest tec unit.

Basically just need to buy the right size Weightronix (or similar) spindles to replace the NH stock spindles. Then I'll need to modify the hitch where it attaches to the tractor to accept the hitch weigh bar. This is the reason I stuck with the BR740A instead of buying the new BR7060. The 7060's have a welded assembly that would have to be cut apart and rewelded to accept a hitch weigh bar while I can simply unbolt the stock BR740 hitch and bolt one I fabricate on in its place.

Shouldn't be that expensive as a weigh kit that will handle 5 tons should be plenty. Depending on spindle sizes I may go as heavy as ten tons just so I don't have to make adapters.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Shouldn't be that expensive as a weigh kit that will handle 5 tons should be plenty. Depending on spindle sizes I may go as heavy as ten tons just so I don't have to make adapters.


You've really got me thinking. I found this site that makes a kit for JD: Scale-Tec Ltd :: Anamosa, Iowa

I am going to contact them tomorrow to see about NH. Maybe they'd be interested in a couple of guinea pigs!

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Don't really need a premade kit unless it's cheaper than buying components. Like I said, really shouldn't be that difficult, people add scales to grain carts all the time.


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## dixietank (Jan 26, 2011)

OK here's one for you Vermeer guys. Whats the difference between a 504M and a 554XL? I found a 554XL with 4000 bales on it for $9K and appears to be in good shape. Is it worth it?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> people add scales to grain carts all the time.


I looked at the installation instructions for a J&M Manufacturing grain cart. Seems that the big issue is the hitch weigh bar. Looking at my 780 manual this morning, it seems that the 740 and 780's share the same type of hitch design.

Keep me posted if you decide to go ahead--I'm very interested in this.

Thanks

Ralph


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

stick with whatever dealer is the closer to your operation JD is all i have ever owned but dealer is 50 miles away and if you break down at 4:30 your in trouble the newholland dealer is about 10 miles my next will be NH


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

dixietank said:


> OK here's one for you Vermeer guys. Whats the difference between a 504M and a 554XL? I found a 554XL with 4000 bales on it for $9K and appears to be in good shape. Is it worth it?


Age,the M is next newer model.
Size,the 504M is a 4x5 and the XL is a 4x5.5
XL to M series is a totaly different baler ,a lot of changes.Not sure on the 4' balers as I run the 605's I realy didn't have any problems with th XL series except the net wrap system sucked.On the M's it is the cats meow.simple.

On the early 605M's they had some bearing issues but most have been updated.(i don't know if they had same isssues on the smaller baler)

I looked on tractor house and the asking price on the 554XL's is 8500-13,000


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Don't really need a premade kit unless it's cheaper than buying components. Like I said, really shouldn't be that difficult, people add scales to grain carts all the time.


I talked with Chris at Cental Scale about their JD baler weighing system.

They have the spindles and hitch weigh bars and Weightronix controller and electronics for the JD for about $2400. He is getting me a quote on a hitch weigh bar for a NH BR780. The controller is semi-automatic in that you have to weigh the bale after it is wrapped and have the baler stopped then press start and stop to weigh each bale. It works in a negative number because it starts with the bale/baler combined weight then subtracts the empty baler weight.

This is the same system used on grain carts. I guess with a grain cart you start with a full cart, then weigh the empty cart to get the tonnage.

Ralph


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