# net wrapping round bales



## ZetorProxima90 (Jun 11, 2018)

I am in the process of purchasing a Vermeer 5420 Rebel round baler with twine and net wrap features. I have never had a net wrap baler before (only twine) and know little about the science.

1) On ave how many wraps should be put on each bale? My baler will make a 4'x4' (800 lb) bale up to a 4'x5' (1000 lb max) bale.

2) Is there a bare bones minimum and/or maximum number of wraps x bale?

3) Are there better or worse brands of net wrap? In my area Fleet Farm carries it and I see I can get it through Amazon or the local machinery dealerships.

4) On ave how many 4'x5' bales will I be able to wrap from one roll of net wrap? How about a 4'x4' bale, how may bales per roll?

5) For custom baling how much more should I charge x bale for net wrap as opposed to twine tie?

Has anyone who has a Vermeer 5420 rebel net wrap baler had really good luck or bad luck with the baler?? Thanks guys for the feedback.

JBBadd.


----------



## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Lots of variable here to deal with....
1) Amount of net per bale.....as a general rule of thumb 3-3.5 wraps
2) you'll have to decide that thru trial and error, that shouldn't be a problem 
3) lord yes....don't buy net from Amazon for cryin out loud. Tama, Pritchett, lots of good ones
4) variables to 1) but about 300
5) you should charge more for twine, not net.....


----------



## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

1) with quality net wrap 2.25 wraps (need a little over-lap IMHO), with hay, add a layer for straw.

2) see answer 1

3) DEFINITELY differences, suggest you look at weight of roll with same footage and NOT just price. 

4) Depends on number of wraps (see answer #1). A 5' diameter bale, takes about 19.6' per wrap, so at 2.25 wraps you are looking at around 44' per bale. 9840' roll about 220 bales (in theory)

5) not much or nothing, you will be faster baling with net wrap (more bales per hour, less wear on equipment). Your actual cost of net wrap could be less than $1 a bale, IDK the cost of twine, but could it be $0.50 a bale? Remember baler only needs to turn 2.25 times to net wrap, where could be 12+ times for twine at 24 wraps.

Larry


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

I utilize JD Tama 48'' edge to edge putting 2 wraps on 64'' diameter bales. My net cost per bale is very close to $1 per bale. Utilizing net will amount to about 25% more bales baled in same time frame. If I was going to put twine on bales I'd charge at least $1 more per bale vs net. Net wrapped bales shed water much better than twine wrapped bales. I think amount of overlap if any is required is determined by type of crop being baled & type/amount of handling.

IMHO to a degree the amount of ft of net required per bale is determined by amount of stretch applied to net while net is being put on the bale


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

ZetorProxima90 said:


> I am in the process of purchasing a Vermeer 5420 Rebel round baler with twine and net wrap features. I have never had a net wrap baler before (only twine) and know little about the science.
> 
> 1) On ave how many wraps should be put on each bale? My baler will make a 4'x4' (800 lb) bale up to a 4'x5' (1000 lb max) bale.
> 
> ...


I am going to be the bad guy and stray off topic.

1.) About 2.250 wraps per bale

2.) If you are asking where to start on your monitor, it should be reflecting the actual amount of wrapped surface.

3.) Yes. Buy based on weight for equivalent length.

4.) Just north of 200, maybe 220. The same you should be getting with big balls of twine.

5.) It has gotten closer in price but it is still cheaper to twine tie based purely on material. Other factors have to be weighed though.

Now for the off topic: I am a Big Vermeer fan. I have been very satisfied with the Vermeer brand. That said I do not know of a company who shot themselves in the foot worse than when Vermeer launched the Rebel baler line. Everything (rollers, chains, sprockets, etc...) are undersized to build a low priced, very low volume baler. I personally know of three that, through normal use (about 1500 rolls/yr) were were worn out beyond repair (financially) in three years of use. I am in a big Vermeer area and you just do not see any of them left.

I would buy an M with a higher bale count before a new Rebel every time. I don't mean to rain on your parade but there are better ways to get into net. I have always heard Vermeer didn't really have net figured out until the M series.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

dvcochran

May I ask what size roller chains/sprockets a Vermeer Rebel baler utilizes?

Thanks,Jim


----------



## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

dvcochran said:


> I am going to be the bad guy and stray off topic.
> 
> 1.) About 2.250 wraps per bale
> 2.) If you are asking where to start on your monitor, it should be reflecting the actual amount of wrapped surface.
> ...


I don't think 1500 per year was considered normal for a Rebel even when they were introduced. No wonder they had trouble if they didn't buy the right baler for their operation.


----------



## Northeast PA hay and beef (Jan 29, 2017)

If it isn't a baler that cuts the grass, you can get away with 2 wraps. If you're cutting it we put on 3.


----------



## ZetorProxima90 (Jun 11, 2018)

somedevildawg said:


> Lots of variable here to deal with....
> 1) Amount of net per bale.....as a general rule of thumb 3-3.5 wraps
> 2) you'll have to decide that thru trial and error, that shouldn't be a problem
> 3) lord yes....don't buy net from Amazon for cryin out loud. Tama, Pritchett, lots of good ones
> ...


----------



## ZetorProxima90 (Jun 11, 2018)

Northeast PA hay and beef said:


> If it isn't a baler that cuts the grass, you can get away with 2 wraps. If you're cutting it we put on 3.


 No, my baler does not have the crop cutter. Thank you very much for the feedback.


----------



## ZetorProxima90 (Jun 11, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> I utilize JD Tama 48'' edge to edge putting 2 wraps on 64'' diameter bales. My net cost per bale is very close to $1 per bale. Utilizing net will amount to about 25% more bales baled in same time frame. If I was going to put twine on bales I'd charge at least $1 more per bale vs net. Net wrapped bales shed water much better than twine wrapped bales. I think amount of overlap if any is required is determined by type of crop being baled & type/amount of handling.
> 
> IMHO to a degree the amount of ft of net required per bale is determined by amount of stretch applied to net while net is being put on the bale
> 
> That all makes sense. Thank you very much.


----------



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Many variables in netwrap and what you are baling determines number of wraps.

2.25-4.25 wraps.

Alfalfa and grass hay 2.25

cornstalks 3.25

rotary wheat straw 4.25

short,chopped up,dry material may need a extra wrap,like rotary wheat straw.

If you use self loading hay trailers with chains or that slide the bale it may take a extra wrap.

There is a lot of differences in netwrap check the weight there is quite a difference in how much actual plastic in a roll.

I do work for Pritchett Netwrap and have seen and heard a lot of netwrap stories.Just picked up a couple customers that put on 6 wraps on cornstalks of another brand and they still were blowing up.Quality control can also be issue with net.How evenly the net is on the roll.A thin spot in the net.Some brands don't spread to edge of bale.


----------



## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

our round bales are stored inside and are handled several times when sold so we put 3 wraps on 4x5 bales. they hold together better for transport we get 200 to 230 bales per roll of net wrap. We have a New Holland BR 7060 and have not had any problems since we got it. We only bale 300 to 400 per year so our balers last over 15 years and still have good trade value.Dealer support is just as valuable as brand name.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Tx Jim said:


> dvcochran
> 
> May I ask what size roller chains/sprockets a Vermeer Rebel baler utilizes?
> 
> Thanks,Jim


Off the top of my head #40 and #60.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

8350HiTech said:


> I don't think 1500 per year was considered normal for a Rebel even when they were introduced. No wonder they had trouble if they didn't buy the right baler for their operation.


You are correct; I guess I fat fingered the 1, more like 500 rolls/year.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

dvcochran said:


> Off the top of my head #40 and #60.


I fail to see how RC60 chain wouldn't hold up on a baler that can only make a 4X5 bale because that's the same size that my baler that is listed to make 4X6 & it has made several 1000's of 4X5.5 bales


----------



## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> I fail to see how RC60 chain wouldn't hold up on a baler that can only make a 4X5 bale because that's the same size that my baler that is listed to make 4X6 & it has made several 1000's of 4X5.5 bales


I think there may be more to the story.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Tx Jim said:


> I fail to see how RC60 chain wouldn't hold up on a baler that can only make a 4X5 bale because that's the same size that my baler that is listed to make 4X6 & it has made several 1000's of 4X5.5 bales


Sure, you are making smaller bales than the baler is rated and built for. Naturally that would equate.

I just know what I have seen and been involved in with two friends who had 3 Rebel's between them. Bearings and rollers were the worst of the failures I saw (all undersized) but chains and sprockets and such were right there as well.

FWIW there is #60 chain and #60H which is very close in rating to regular #80. Uses 60 sprockets but is substantially stronger/tougher. 60 weighs .974lbs/ft. 80 weighs 1.714lbs/ft. 60H weighs 1.43lbs/ft.

I never owned a Rebel baler. I was still running a Gehl when they were in production. I actually went backwards in years and a Super I was my first Vermeer baler.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My point was if RC60 chain can be utilized to bale several 1000 5.5 diameter bales it should bale the same # or even more 5' diameter bales if hay compression in bales is comparable. Brgs & rollers are a different story.

The pin/bushings size on RC60 & RC60H is identical. The pins on roller chains have had the majority of failures on my balers over the yrs of baling? Therefore I don't see a large advantage of RC60H over regular RC60


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

It seems are looking at from purely your experience with Your baler. There are several other factors that affect chain performance. As far as RC and H chain, like I said one is much stronger and thus heavier chain. I quoted the listed chain specs above. Just because the pins are the same size does not make them the same pin.

You rolling 1000's of bales using a baler built for heavier/bigger rolls than you are making. Then making a point that your RC60 chain is holding up well. That all makes perfect sense doesn't it?

My point was/is that the Rebel balers were 4x5 balers that were built very light duty and are flush with problems because of that. I would imagine people who use them to make 4x4 bales have less failures, just like how you are making a smaller bale with a bigger baler.


----------



## ZetorProxima90 (Jun 11, 2018)

Tx Jim said:


> dvcochran
> 
> May I ask what size roller chains/sprockets a Vermeer Rebel baler utilizes?
> 
> Thanks,Jim


 Off hand Im not sure. That I would have to check. My guess is they are lightweight.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

My point about you stating Vermeer Rebel balers poor reliability was due to RC60 isn't the real reason for the balers unreliability & that I think RC60 chain should be up to the task.

I'm not only utilizing my experience from operating my baler BUT many yrs experience with rd balers since they were introduced including my neighbors & former implement dealer customers balers. I choose not to make 6 ft tall bales because they aren't very easy to haul double stacked on a trailer. I have not owned nor plan to own a baler that utilizes RC80 chain so I have no personal experience with that size chain.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

Tx Jim said:


> My point about you stating Vermeer Rebel balers poor reliability was due to RC60 isn't the real reason for the balers unreliability & that I think RC60 chain should be up to the task.
> 
> I'm not only utilizing my experience from operating my baler BUT many yrs experience with rd balers since they were introduced including my neighbors & former implement dealer customers balers. I choose not to make 6 ft tall bales because they aren't very easy to haul double stacked on a trailer. I have not owned nor plan to own a baler that utilizes RC80 chain so I have no personal experience with that size chain.


Okay, but I think everyone will agree making smaller bales with a baler built to make bigger bales is a huge factor.

As far as whether RC60 chain is heavy enough depends on many factors and would be different from baler to baler, including brand and how an individual baler is used and maintained.

The tensile strength of #80 chain is just under double that of #60 (9.25lbs vs. 17.63lbs). I can see where it could cause trouble if you are counting on the chain to be a shear point.


----------



## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Other brands of balers that make 4X5 rd bales just fine utilizing RC60,


----------



## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

dvcochran said:


> I am going to be the bad guy and stray off topic.
> 
> 1.) About 2.250 wraps per bale
> 2.) If you are asking where to start on your monitor, it should be reflecting the actual amount of wrapped surface.
> ...


Do you know which Rebel your friends had? There is a big difference between the 5400's that they started with vs the 5420's that ended the Rebel line. The 5420's have the same rollers and bearings as the N line, just have the slower pickup (4 rows of teeth vs 5). This is Vermeer country around here and I personally know of many Rebels with several thousand bales through them with no major problems. I have had my 5420 Rebel for 6 years after buying it new. I bought if specifically for haylage and put several hundred haylage bales through it every year on these steep mountain sides. It does not have the productivity of a John Deere silage special or a Vermeer Pro, but I can also buy several of these for one of those, and I have no problem running it with my comparably lower horsepower tractors (52-67 hp at pto).

My uncle has a 5400 Rebel that has well over 10,000 bales through it (all dry hay) and I have several neighbors with 5410 and 5420 Rebels that do over 1,000 haylage rolls a year plus a few hundred dry rolls. Again, these balers are probably not the best choice for a large hay producer, but for a few hundred a year they can't be beat for the price.

As for the net wrap, I can't comment on that. No one has it on any Vermeers around here. It was not worth the $5,000 option to me when I bought mine, as most of my hay fields only have one or two places to drop the hay without it rolling down the mountain into the woods, a stream, or someone's house or barn. So by the time I get to where I can dump the roll I already have it tied and ready to drop. Good luck with your baler! If you keep it maintained it should perform well for you.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

MtnHerd said:


> Do you know which Rebel your friends had? There is a big difference between the 5400's that they started with vs the 5420's that ended the Rebel line. The 5420's have the same rillers and bearings as the N line, just have the slower pickup (4 rows of teeth vs 5). This is Vermeer country around here and I personally know of many Rebels with several thousand bales through them with no major problems. I have had my 5420 Rebel for 6 years after buying it new. I bought if specifically for haylage and put several hundred haylage bales through it every year on these steep mountain sides. It does not have the productivity of a John Deere silage special or a Vermeer Pro, but I can also buy several of these for one of those, and I have no problem running it with my comparably lower horsepower tractors (52-67 up at pto).
> 
> My uncle has a 5400 Rebel that has well over 10,000 bales through it (all dry hay) and I have several neighbors with 5410 and 5420 Rebels that do over 1,000 haylage rolls a year plus a few hundred dry rolls. Again, these balers are probably not the best choice for a large hay producer, but for a few hundred a year they can't be beat for the price.
> 
> As for the net wrap, I can't comment on that. No one has it on any Vermeers around here. It was not worth the $5,000 option to me when I bought mine, as most of my hay fields only have one or two places to drop the hay without it rolling down the mountain into the woods, a stream, or someones house or barn. So by the time I get to where I can dump the roll I already have it tied and ready to drop. Good luck with your baler! If you keep it maintained it should perform well for you.


The three Rebel's I have had experience were two 5410's and one 5420.

I am glad to hear they have been holding up well for you.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 1, 2017)

I did not know that about the 'N' series balers. Are there different models like JD has? Economy, standard, premium etc...


----------



## Chase72 (Nov 12, 2017)

dvcochran said:


> I did not know that about the 'N' series balers. Are there different models like JD has? Economy, standard, premium etc...


From my understanding, rebel and n series were replaced 2/3 years ago with the R series, which has a Classic which is like the rebel, a signature which is basically an N series, then a premium


----------

