# What Does It Take?



## whatHekeeps (Aug 30, 2011)

This is just about some experiences you may have had with starting your own ranching or farm businesses or some ideas you may have about the economic aspects or some experiences you have had being involved in an operation.

What does it take to start up a ranch or a farm? Who do you have to talk to? Where do you get the know how? Put in your own two-sense both big and small. What are the costs starting from nothing? What are the profits? What equipment or labor force do you need for what purpose?

Where have you been with these ideas? What are your experiences with these ideas?

General or constructive thoughts welcomed.

Maybe this will help some unasked/unanswered questions floatin' around.


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## geiselbreth (Feb 21, 2010)

very deep pockets and rain at the wright time and no rain at the wright time and better than average management skills


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

Wow, whatHekeeps! What an interesting, perhaps loaded, question! You're wondering about getting started in farming in general and not hay making in particular. Here's a general comment: if you don't already own farmland, now is probably not a good time to get started. Not, at least, if your goal is to be profitable.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree with all the previous posts in this thread. Now is a very tough time to get into farming, ranching, or hay making with no outside help. Land, cattle, and machinery prices along with all other inputs are at all time highs in my area (ND). All except interest rates, they are nice and low and that is a good thing for me. That being said maybe now is a good time to buy land and get it locked in on cheap interest. I really don't see land getting any cheaper in the future. Before you go talk to a banker or other lender such as FSA or Farm Credit you'll need to have a farm plan. A farm plan basically includes a list of your debts and assests. Projected costs and incomes off of the land you intend to buy. Basically you'll need to show your lender how your going to pay back your loan. If you buy your land, cattle, and machinery all at the same time, will make paying for it very difficult. Most small banks offer 5 year AG loans here but maybe some of the bigger banks offer longer terms. FSA has some good programs for beginning farmers that might be worthwhile for you to go talk to them about. There real estate loans are nice becuase of the long term limits, low interest rates that are fixed, and payment forgiveness in case of a disaster year are very nice to a beginning farmer. On the downside they do have more rules, regulations, and paperwork then any lender I've dealt with. They also offer Chattel loans (cattle and machinery), housing and other stuctural loans. I didn't care for all the stipulations they had to go along with their chattel loans so I kept mine at the bank. I do have a real estate loan through FSA and I have to say after getting through the intial application process it hasn't been that bad. 
It will be a real challenge to get started on your own with no outside help but don't let anyone tell you that you can't. My situation was a little different as I was able to trade my labor in exchange for machinery use from my parents. Maybe you could work with a neighbor and work for them in exchange for the use of their equipment. A deal like that is tricky but it might work. Also you might be able to find a farmer or rancher than is nearing retiremnet age that you could work for and possibly get a chance at buying or renting his property. Doing that would give you some valuable experience and maybe a chance at owning or renting your own farm. 
If you do try and start out on your own, your going to have to have a job off the farm to bring in extra income. I'd try and keep my debt as low as possible to start with. Buy just what you need and look for good used machinery. Possibly also look at maybe doing custom work with your machinery to pay for it.

Do you know how to get a small fortune farming or ranching? Start with a large fortune and wait awhile. hehe


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

whatHekeeps said:


> This is just about some experiences you may have had with starting your own ranching or farm businesses or some ideas you may have about the economic aspects or some experiences you have had being involved in an operation.
> 
> What does it take to start up a ranch or a farm? Who do you have to talk to? Where do you get the know how? Put in your own two-sense both big and small. What are the costs starting from nothing? What are the profits? What equipment or labor force do you need for what purpose?
> 
> ...


To answer your question about where to get the know how I would say talk to farmers and ranchers in the area. Better yet maybe work for one for awhile before jumping into debt and buying land, cattle, and machinery. Working for a farmer or rancher would give you valueable experience and knowledge. Farming and ranching is always a learning experience.
Also there are some 2 yr tech schools that have some programs that might benefit you. I know there are a couple of tech schools in South Dakota that have pretty good AG programs. Mainly geared towards Animal Science and such.


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

I would agree with NewBerlinBaler... to some degree...but would say that if you are starting from scratch start slow learn from those in your area and on sites like this. And anything that works this time may not work the next time...Farming/Ranching is like life tomorrow is not guaranteed so do all you can today and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. Profit? Money or Satisfaction of what one can accomplish? It depends on what you put into it, your knowledge and how "lucky" you are. There are too many variables to count on profit until its in the bank.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

It's a hard business to get into if you don't already have an "in". If tour gonna do anything. Start with renting land (always cheaper than buying and your not tied into it/ can quit at any time). Buy cheap used equipment and start small to begin a small profit. The biggest mistake people make in a business is getting ahead of themselves. Going to big to quickly can cause a lifetime of pain (debt).


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

CockrellHillFarms said:


> Going to big to quickly can cause a lifetime of pain (debt).


Yah, one of the young local bigshots is in that boat now. He says he's just selling all his red equipment so he can buy green. Auction bill just says he's changing his operation.

Two things strike me as real odd:

I would think it much better to use the red equipment to trade in on green instead of hoping for good attendance at an auction by people who actually have money.

Seems kind of weird that if he's supposedly just changing colors, his grain bins are up for auction as well.

Rumor is the bank is shutting him down, but that's just a rumor.


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## CockrellHillFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

mlappin...... I'm sure your right on. I'm sure he is defaulting on loans. I've seen it many times. I'm a young guy (26) and I've seen multiple people do it, some that are a lot older. Thats why these banks FSA and other rual organizations are cutting deals for young farmers (beginning farmers loan, etc). If a young guy doesnt have an "in" already or even middle aged person, its nearly impossible to get started. Thats why farming is headed into the commercial area vs. the old family farm. Family farms are going to be something of the past I think. We have been in business for 170+ years, so we are going to be one of the few left out there. But thats how I got into it, the door was ready open. Funny thing is, I only run one piece of green equipement right now that my 567, I have a 346 sq. baler but its sitting in the barn incase my bc5070 breaks down. I've stayed away from Deere because I'm not tradering equipment, buy it and keep it. But I know guys that play that game, they are also driving and running brand new equipment. I know they arent making a DIME at the end of the day.


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## TessiersFarm (Aug 30, 2009)

We are just starting, we don't have much and maybe we never will have but what we got is paid for and no for-closures here. I too have seen the same old story many times, all new equipment a couple years later auction. I would say the most important thing is check your ego at the door and run the operation you need not the one you want, that will come in time if the economy, weather and good lord all agree.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

CockrellHillFarms said:


> I've stayed away from Deere because I'm not tradering equipment, buy it and keep it. But I know guys that play that game, they are also driving and running brand new equipment. I know they arent making a DIME at the end of the day.


In the late 70's early 80's guys were trading every yr also.Well actualy rolling the debt into the next one.It came to a screeching halt when they didn't have a program any more.And grain prices crashed.New paint was gone because they couldn't make the payment and the dealers couldn't trade them in to a new one.

I just don't see how it can keep going now forever.They are going to run out of people to buy the slightly used stuff that is traded in.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> In the late 70's early 80's guys were trading every yr also.Well actualy rolling the debt into the next one.It came to a screeching halt when they didn't have a program any more.And grain prices crashed.New paint was gone because they couldn't make the payment and the dealers couldn't trade them in to a new one.
> 
> I just don't see how it can keep going now forever.They are going to run out of people to buy the slightly used stuff that is traded in.


Very slightly used stuff with a even smaller reduction in price over new is what I've noticed. Almost better off to find a better older machine and pay considerably less for it than buy one that only has a year or two of use when compared to the price of new.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Very slightly used stuff with a even smaller reduction in price over new is what I've noticed


I looked at a trade-in recently and the salesman wanted to give me a quote on a new one. I choked on the price. Then I looked at used on Tractorhouse and Fastline I saw same-spec tractors with a couple of hundred hours listed where they were actually asking more than the price of new. I assumed either the owners/dealers were crazy or it reflected the weird area discounts the manufacturers seem to use



mlappin said:


> Almost better off to find a better older machine and pay considerably less for it than buy one that only has a year or two of use when compared to the price of new.


Couldn't agree more! Most of the new ones I've looked at seem to have cheaper parts, only slightly better fuel economy, and a lot more electronics that can go wrong. You just have to be willing to look at a lot of lumps of coal before you find the diamond.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

And here's the kicker, I was reading on the Combine Forum how some of the older MF rotarys had a readout on fuel consumption per/acre and the newer ones didn't. Somebody asked why and the reply was that the newer engines that meet all the current emission standards actually burn _more_ fuel than the previous model.

Some of the articles that claim the fuel savings alone will pay for a new tractor are clearly full of sh*t, unless the tank got fuller as you ran it, even with $5 fuel any fuel savings (if any) would take until the tractor was completely depreciated out and then some to ever make the payments on fuel saved alone.

On really heavy first cutting that was lodged horribly I only burned 2 quarts to the acre pulling a 13' discbine, when we still used to cultivate my 1600 Oliver diesel (the one hooked to the tedder in the one picture) was pulling a 8 row cultivator and I can remember only taking slightly less than 8 gallons of fuel to refill after covering 63 acres of beans that day. That included driving from the farm 3 miles into town, doing a field there, driving another 4 miles to another field, then the 6 mile drive home.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Learned something interesting today. I mentioned the local wanna be BTO was having an auction on the previous page. He's tells everybody he's buying all new equipment to replace the stuff he had that was practically new. One of his hired help from last year stopped by the farm looking for fall work, he said the BTO still owes him 3K in wages from last year, so me thinks the bank shut him down and he won't admit it.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Anyone else ever notice most every John Deere dealer has 2 or more used 567's and 568's on their lot, even in corn country? The ones at my dealer have been there for 1 - 3 years and haven't moved. The prices don't seem to come down either, even though they are growing older all the time.


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## K WEST FARMS (Apr 4, 2011)

Number 1 : Get as educated as possible in whatever field you are already good at or have an interest in. Number 2 : Use that education to get a good paying day job. Number 3 : Rent some land if cropping is what you are interested in ; or rent barn, livestock buildings if interest is indairy or meat production. Number 3 : Do not quit your day job!!!! Number 4 : Start slow- learn to walk before you try to run.Crops, 20 , 30 acres to start. Hire tillage , planting , harvesting. Animal enterprize , beef , hogs , goats , chickens; forget dairy unless you can work slowly in to existing operation. Number 5 : do not quit your day job!!!! Eventually as you gain experience , you will determine what kind of operation you are good at and whether you can support a family on the profits gained from the operation and remember......DO NOT QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!! John


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