# HP required for a 3x3 baler



## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

As the premium for small square bales over large has narrowed in the last 8 months we are considering renting a 3x3 baler to run alongside the NH5070 for this season.
Our biggest tractor is a Fendt 716 (160 motor hp). While I know it would be better to have more, in other peoples experience is this enough tractor to run a 3x3 at a sensible speed. I would describe our terrain as gentle slopes.
Thanks
Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Should be fine. Though what is the PTO hp on that tractor? I was running a 120 pto hp Massey 6290 on our new Hesston 2150 for 4th cutting in 2011, which I think recommends alot more power then the NH. It was working a little too hard, but it did ok. I wouldn't want to do thousands of acreages a year with it. We then bought a JD 7810 that has about 150 pto hp that should be much better.


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## haymaker1979 (Nov 20, 2011)

i run a case 3x3x8 with a jd 7810 which is 150hp and it has no problems at all.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Should be fine. Though what is the PTO hp on that tractor? I was running a 120 pto hp Massey 6290 on our new Hesston 2150 for 4th cutting in 2011, which I think recommends alot more power then the NH. It was working a little too hard, but it did ok. I wouldn't want to do thousands of acreages a year with it. We then bought a JD 7810 that has about 150 pto hp that should be much better.


Was putting out 145hp at the PTO last time it was on the dyno.
Would you recommend trying to get hold of a tandem axle model if tractor is on the small side? I am guessing in Colorado you will have some pretty good slopes to deal with so it doen't surprise me that the 6290 struggled a bit.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

The field I was in the brief bit of 4th baling I was able to do once we bought the baler wasn't to hilly. We do have some fields that are much hillier I wouldn't say it really struggled, but it was at the end of it's power band I think. But it was in 4th cutting alfalfa is lots lighter windrows then our 1st cutting grass hay. We also have an accumulator on it. It holds 4 bales when full. The NH one holds 3. I think the 6290 would have done better with a NH 3x3 baler as they seem much smaller then the Massey balers. Minimum HP recommended for the Massey 3X3 is right at 120 pto hp. The New NH 3x3 minimum is only 102 hp. I don't know which one you are considering renting. The sales people of both NH and Massey here say they rarely sell a tandem baler. But we felt the Massey was a better baler so that's why we chose it over the NH. They were priced very similar also. I would still say your Fendt would be just fine. Of course I do somewhat think manufacturers recommendations are on the conservative side. Our Massey 6290 has front wheel assist and dual tires plus a loader so it was plenty heavy. It didn't rock at all like I thought it would when the plunger got going.

I guess the main reason we got another tractor to use on the baler was more that the 6290 is the only loader tractor we have and it is a major pain to take off the 3x3 baler to stack the hay. Not quite as easy as the small balers I've been used to. Plus we wanted a larger tractor that could plow and do a little ripping. We haven't had that powerful of a tractor ever.

Atacres is your Case 3X3X8 baler a Case from when Case balers were really Hesstons or is it NH Case 3x3? I hope that question sort of understandable? Nice to know a 7810 runs them fine. We bought a nice used one this fall, but haven't used it for baling yet.


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## Customfarming (Oct 8, 2009)

The Fendt 716 is more than enough tractor to pull a 3x3 baler. Its usually not the horsepower that you have to worry about pulling a big square baler but its the weight of the tractor. Go with a tandem baler regardless of the tractor size. The tandem rides so much smoother in my opinion. If you have choice get one with a steerable rear axle.


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## NelsonCustomHay (Jan 8, 2012)

I have been putting up 3x3 bales since 1992 and have been hooked to numerous balers with many different tractor combinations. I currently pull a new agco 3x3 with tandem axles with a mxm155 case tractor. the pto hp is around 125 and we pull in some extremely steep terrain. Some times a power increase would be nice but it definately gets the job done. By steep terrain I mean we swath till the swather spins out!!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

We're running a 3x3 NH with a JD 4640, that has 155hp on the pto, and it is fine. Our neighbor runs a 4910 hesston (4x4) with a 4440, and has for years. I wouldn't do it, but he does. You have more than enough HP, and I assume that it's a FWA, maybe even has duals? The big factor is having enough weight. That baler will push you around if you don't have enough weight, especially if you have an accumulator. 
From what I understand, the tandem is nicer on rough ground (if you wanna drive fast), and if you wanna drive fast down the road. A big single tire gives less ground compaction (it has more surface area), and unless a guy goes 30mph down the road you won't have a problem there, either.

Rodney


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

Rodney R said:


> We're running a 3x3 NH with a JD 4640, that has 155hp on the pto, and it is fine. Our neighbor runs a 4910 hesston (4x4) with a 4440, and has for years. I wouldn't do it, but he does. You have more than enough HP, and I assume that it's a FWA, maybe even has duals? The big factor is having enough weight. That baler will push you around if you don't have enough weight, especially if you have an accumulator.
> From what I understand, the tandem is nicer on rough ground (if you wanna drive fast), and if you wanna drive fast down the road. A big single tire gives less ground compaction (it has more surface area), and unless a guy goes 30mph down the road you won't have a problem there, either.
> 
> Rodney


Totally agree with the compaction comment, Rodney. The couple of times we had a custom guy out last year with his Agco tandem baler you couls still see his tracks in the alfalfa when we were cutting again 6 weeks later. I imagine a single axle baler with tire pressure low would be significantly kinder on the ground.
It was weight distribution that got me thinking that for a smaller tractor a tandem baler may be more appropriate.
Teslan, why is dropping the baler off a pain. I was considering running the two balers for two or three hours and then stopping with the 3x3 to help load.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

MikeRF said:


> Totally agree with the compaction comment, Rodney. The couple of times we had a custom guy out last year with his Agco tandem baler you couls still see his tracks in the alfalfa when we were cutting again 6 weeks later. I imagine a single axle baler with tire pressure low would be significantly kinder on the ground.
> It was weight distribution that got me thinking that for a smaller tractor a tandem baler may be more appropriate.
> Teslan, why is dropping the baler off a pain. I was considering running the two balers for two or three hours and then stopping with the 3x3 to help load.


We run a tandem NH BB490, I agree, still see tracks by next cutting, but have never seen a single tire machine run. Hooking and unhooking these things is a real PITA. Mine gets unhooked maybe once or twice a season, only if I absolutely have to have the tractor for something else. Everything about them is huge and heavy. Plus the NH has a very large 1000 pto shaft, 2 sets of hydraulics, 3 sets of electrical connections, and you hit the hole in the hitch pin dead on, because you don't shake it by hand.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Haybaler101 is correct about the reasons it's a PITA to unhook a large square. Although the newer Masseys like mine only have only one set of hydraulics to unhook, but that is the easy part on any large baler. The hard part for me is that the bolts on the Massey attaching the baler to the drawbar are or need to be very tight and one of them is a very large bolt. 2 1/4 inches if I remember right from last fall. I use a huge socket wrench and about a 6 foot pipe/cheater bar around that. Plus another equally large wrench or socket underneath to keep the nut or bolt from spinning. You can't just loosen either it has to come all the way off. I suppose one could get a large impact wrench to make that easier. Plus all the electrical hookups, the chain, and the time it takes to put the jack down. And what Haybaler101 says about hitting the hole just right is correct. The pto shaft is rather easy on the Masseys. And to do all that when I'm somewhat tired from baling and anxious to get to stacking hay I'll probably throw out my back getting the main drawbar bolt off. And in case your thinking about it you can't just interchange tractors that easily unless they are the exact same distance between ground, drawbar, PTO shaft. If they are it would be easy, but if not then you have to do this huge adjustment of the PTO shaft on the baler to get the proper angle or the shaft will rattle and shake like crazy. I learned this switching it to our JD 7810 from the Massey 6290.

By the way can you actually rent these balers? I don't think the dealers in our area would do that, but then I never asked. They aren't as easy as renting a tractor I wouldn't think.


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## MikeRF (Dec 21, 2009)

The two dealers I have spoken to were happy to look into seasonal rental but would not touch daily. They say most applications are from current users who want to add an extra baler to their existing lineup to assist on particularly busy days. I only have one quote back as yet and that is for 3 bucks per bale up to 3000 (minimum per season) then $2 per bale beyond. That would be for a new unit if there was no good used one on the lot.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Big squares require dedicated tractor for all the pto reasons, but you also have a monitor, innocolant monitor, and moisture tester hard wired into the cab.


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