# Starting on my own!



## Phennick

This will be a little bit of a long post, so bear with me. I've had two dream jobs since I was a boy. I wanted to be a soldier and a farmer. I have spent the last 15 years on active duty and now have only 5 to go till retirement. After I retire I plan on getting some land back in my home area of Central Texas (Temple area to be exact). I want to get into the haying business because nothing brings back childhood memories for me like the smell of fresh cut hay, the sweat and grind of working long hours in the field stacking square bales, or the sight of green rolls of hay as far as the eye can see.

Here's my plan. Starting out I only intend to have about 40-50 acres in hay production. I'm going to buy very basic used equipment starting with 4x5 rounds. After 5-8 years of working my own land and gaining the experience I want to start branching out and doing custom work in my area. I plan to have a full time job in those years to keep a decent cash flow coming in to help myself build up and use what little profits if any I can get off my land to start upgrading and adding to my equipment for when I go into custom operation. If I have enough customers on a regular basis I hope to go full time custom work.

Now I know there will be a lot of nay sayers out there to this, but hear me out. I love to work. It's just what I do. I currently work another job other than the Army mowing the RV campground where I live and also doing the golf course and horse stables on base with a 20' batwing. I'm so dedicated to this it has actually made me quit smoking so I can turn that extra money into more capital when I go to purchase equipment and land. I grew up working on a 5,000 head pig farm during the school year, and worked a 500 acre tobacco and dairy farm up in Kentucky with family during my summer breaks. From the age of 7 I was the one usually cutting and raking hay up in Kentucky. I wasn't allowed to run the baler.

I have been researching everything I can from this site and others to broaden my education and general knowledge on producing the best quality hay possible and where and when to sell said hay. I plan to use the next 5 years to continue to expand my knowledge of soil management, fertilizing, creating good stands, and ensuring that I cut, ted, rake, and bale in the most efficient and productive way possible to hit the ground running as best I can. As of now this will be a solo operation. I don't have a wife or kids. Never had the time or the right woman to get married. I will have a few friends from the army in the area that have already volunteered to help me as they can while I get my business up and running. Plus I will have 7 nephews in their early to mid teenage years I'm sure I can have come out during the summers and help as needed. Doing squares solo will be no picnic, but I figure with a little more upfront cost of an accumulator and grapple with some extra time thrown in I can make it happen.

I have a few questions for y'all to start off with. Does anyone know if there is a decent market for a custom operation in Central Texas? I know doing 50 acres of small squares is a tall order, but would I turn a better profit and have a broader market doing small squares? Would there be any benefit to doing large squares versus rounds? Why don't more people do large squares? I know the upfront cost and maintenance cost of a large square baler is more, but it seems to me it would save a lot of time in the field which over time could turn into profit by reducing labor, raising production, and being easier to load and stack than rounds. What would be some good warm climate grasses to start with in my region? Mostly I see coastal Bermuda. Is this an easier one to produce? Alfalfa seems to be king of the hay world if you can grow it and bale it well. Is Alfalfa ok to do in my climate? I was thinking I would start with a more basic grass mix for my first 5 years or so and then transition over to Alfalfa as I gain experience.

Sorry for the long read and if you made it this far thank you for sticking with it. All tips, tricks and advice are welcomed and encouraged. You can try to talk me out of it, but I'm in this for the long haul.


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## Hayjosh

I don't think anybody here will naysay your plan. It sounds like you've done your due diligence and have a smart, realistic, and INFORMED plan. I'm pretty much in your shoes, but I'm not doing as much acreage.

Small squares definitely make more than rounds, but they're a lot more work as well, and require the indoor storage capacity. Rounds don't require indoor storage, but does keep a nicer bale if you do.

There are more than a few people here who put up your kind of acreage (and more) as solo operations, and many of it in squares. But I will say as I work a full time job too, even 32 acres can be difficult (I only bale small squares too).

Equipment for large squares is very expensive and the hay has a low tolerance for moisture since it's packed so tight, but they sure are easier to stack and handle. I've fed them to horses before and they are not as easy to feed.

For equipment I think you'd be good to start with about 120 hp tractor for mowing and baling, a 60 hp tractor with a quick attach loader, for raking, which is big enough to handle other needs too, a discbine, a 13' rotary rake, and I don't know if a tedder is used much down there. I always use one in Michigan, even though our humidity isn't bad (40-50%). You could start off with a 4 basket tedder if you went this route. It takes me about 30 min to ted 5 acres.


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## Tx Jim

Welcome to YT

Thank you for helping protect the USA,my family & me.

I think there's is room for 1 more custom farmer/hay baler person. Every yr there's new custom hay baler & some that quit. I've been custom farming/hay baling since 1987 but due to my age I bale fewer bales every yr. The day I stop custom baling is getting closer by the day. Alfalfa unless irrigated has a difficult time surviving in most of Texas. Large square bales require covered storage that rd bales usually don't in Texas


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## JD3430

Thank YOU for your service! You are definitely a "giver".
There are a few 'naysayers", but most of them are just jealous of your ambition! 

You'll be OK as long as you dont over spend on machinery or set your expectations too high for the first 5 years. My dad always said when I was a kid "shoot for the stars, settle for the moon!"
I heed to those words many years after his passing. Its just optimism. You seem to have optimism and a good attitude!


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## Phennick

Thank you all for the responses. I didn't realize that about large squares. Would be nice if they were better. I know I will make little to no money at the beginning if ever. Not doing it to make money. Just doing it because it's something I've always really wanted to do. Looking at my budget and what's available in the local area I could get all of the items you listed for around 20k in nicer condition. Wouldn't be a bad start either. My truck will be paid for at that time and may even splurge on a nicer tractor through financing that would be a lot more reliable and a little bigger. Could I get away with one tractor or would I really need two? I hope to upgrade and expand if possible to double up on everything. That way if one goes down I have a back up ready. Who knows, if the custom work takes off might higher on one or two people and run a couple of them at once.


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## JD3430

I did it 1-2 years with 1 tractor. It was all I could afford. I still think I'm a lucky person, though.
It's a tough slog, but you can do it.
I started without the need to make more money than to pay the expenses, but always wanted to expand into making money. If it's "in your blood", don't be surprised if you get bigger! 
Improvise-adapt-overcome
I wanted 2 of everything, but decided to own 1 good piece of hay equipment instead of 2. My reason was storage. I just don't have enough indoor space for 2 of everything, but I do have 3 tractors now.
I don't like stuff left outside.


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## Vol

Spend your money on 2 basic good used tractors. If one fails, you will not be hamstrung. Buy as new of equipment as you can afford. If you small square, get an accumulator. Out of 7 nephews, you should be able to find one that won't melt. 2 people, 2 tractors(60 hp and 100 hp), and good equipment can get a lot done.

Regards, Mike


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## broadriverhay

I started with my Dads 2 John Deere tractors 2510 and 3010. I bought a Kubota 7040 with a loader and grapple. I also bought a new Tonutti mower and Tedder , then a used baler and rake. After several years I started upgrading different pieces of equipment to speed up things. Now with one guy to just bale we can put about 300 to 400 bales in the barn per hour once we start baling. I can give more details if needed.


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## Uphayman

Thank you for serving this great country and protecting our freedom.

Passion........a must whether it be producing a cash crop of hay , or serving a customer base doing custom work. I think you've got it.

Plan....... You have a plan in place. It will change, guaranteed. That's OK. Adapt and adjust as needed. Opportunities will come about that might not have been in the plan.

Patience.......small steps starting out. Small mistakes won't break you.

Perseverance........sounds like you're more than able to handle what will be thrown at you.

Good luck. I'm pulling for you. And welcome to haytalk.


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## Tim/South

Check the local feed stores and see what kind of hay they are selling. You can begin checking the area Craig List to see the types of hay is being offered, and the prices. 
I use CL just to see what is out there locally, tractors, hay, cattle, equipment etc. FaceBook also has the for sale pages that are local.


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## r82230

I'm in the same camp of Mike (two tractors if possible).

Selling small squares, seems to bring more $$ per the same tonnage of hay, but there is more labor *IF* you don't have the equipment/building(s) for them. Along with your baling rate (tonnage per hour), is less with small squares (at least in MY area), than with RB or large square bales.

Thanks for your service.

Larry


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## Trillium Farm

You have three "Enemies" Labour, Time & Weather so you need to be equipped for them!

As others have said buy equipment as new as possible as it will work better and faster than 30yo pieces  and anything else that will save you from hiring labour. If you can, get 120hp if not anything around 100hp will do.

You'll need a discbine, rotary rake, an inline baler (my personal preference) or any baler that bales fast and an accumulator and grapple, this way you don't have to depend on "helpers". You'll get a lot of satisfaction when you make good hay, the sight & smell alone are enough to fill you with pride., conversely if the equipment fails you you'll know frustration galore. Good Luck!


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## skyrydr2

Well I started my own hay adventure just 3 years ago my self! 
If you have great flexibility and good back and neck get an inline baler, if not stick with a really good side pickup unit. Its easier on the neck. 
I got a simple 99 hp tractor for xheap money $5k with cab and ac too. Though the ac unit was aftermarket it still worked. What didn't work was the lack of glass keeping it in lol. Anyways I bought it because it ran awesome and had good rubber too. 
I spent about 2k fixing it up so it was very nice to run and I am pretty happy with it! 
Then I bought the baler from hell! A completely whipped 575NH ! Oh the frustration... but the folks here especially Mike10 for all of his help and knowledge that baler from hell is now the meanest baling machine in my area! 
I have an old 488 NH mower that has had better days but still works good and cuts decent, you just can't go 10mph with them. 
I kick bales into wagons so that helps and I usually have 2 tractors at the field one for heavy stuff and one for the light stuff(raking and tedding). 
My biggest issue is LOGISTICS! I have to travel off farm for ALL my hay! So need trailers and trucks to move everything from field to field and it SUCKS HARD CORE!
I wear out tires on equipment faster than I wear out cutting teeth and tines.... thats how it is here in New England if you want to do large acreage and lots of hay!
I cut about 50 acres total now and average 4500 bales first cut and maybe 2000 second cut because I don't cut every field twice usually due to weather and field conditions. Some fields never get fertilized and the land owners don't want them fertilized? So when they get bad enough I will abandon them and find ones that want them taken care of.
Get your self a good rake and tedder if you have troubles drying your hay! The tedder is your bestest buddy up here in New England! With out it your in trouble! 
Storage! You need to store small squares proper or they will be junk in no time flat! 
A canvas building is fine as long as you have a good floor! By this I mean a wood floor with ventilation under it! 
We use pallets with plywood on them to make a solid but removable floor and it works as good as a barn with a loft.

You are in good hands here! Lots of great advice and great folks, the best of luck in your journey and most of all Thank You for your service protecting this wonderful country.


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