# Did I screw up?



## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

The questions are at the bottom of this long post. Sorry for the long story, but I'm sure the experienced hay makers might appreciate the details... been there-done that!

Well, we had unbelievable weather last mon and tue. The humidity was so low with a breeze, I cut orchard grass (NH 488) on Monday early afternoon , raked that evening. It was so dry, there was no dew. Pure sunshine, no humidity and wind the tuesday. But Wednesday was going to be a washout. I thought I'd be a smart guy and try a few bales and hit them with the moisture probe.

Unfortunately, I stayed on the tractor and had the old time farmer'/landowner probe a few bales. He signaled they came up with 8-10%, however I didn't realize they were not packed tight since I never left the seat. He never saw a moisture meter, so he didn't know better either. He gave me a high sign and I went like the devil - well as fast as the old 68 hayliner would let me. LOL. He agreed that it 'felt' dry to him although it still retained a lot of color, it broke clean when you grabbed a handful and run it in a circle between your fists a couple times.

I had trouble with one of the knotters so I had 20 or so bad bales. Trying to beat the rain, I had a customer pick up 100 bales off the field, and I noted the looseness of the bales. When she left, I tightened the screws and repacked some of the ones that didn't knot. The moisture readings came back at 14-17%. I wasn't too concerned, although I needed to still tighten the bales.

However, tuesday night brought a heavy dew and when I tried to pack the rest of the windrow it read 28-30%, albeit, I was packing a BIG windrow that may not have been dry ot begin with!

Then I put my tester on the cab floor STUPIDLY on top of the twine I pulled from the bad bales, it rolled off and as haymakin' Murphy would have it, right under my ag tire. It's on the way back to the factory for fixin.

On Wednesday, JUST after I got the last formed bale off the field and packed away, it rained... and man it rained about an inch worth. Thursday was a good day of drying, I raked around noon on thursday when the ground was dry enough. then raked again to flip the windrow to dry ground and expose the windrow bottom. Friday even better and I raked again. There's no evidence of molding, and it looked great, and packed well. I'm heading over to get it off the field now and beat today's rain.

So that's the whole story, here's the questions.

1. Could it be that the grass hay could be THAT dry in IDEAL conditions with the mower conditioner in 30 hours? Or was the bale so loose the moisture meter fooled me?

2. Can a heavy morning dew cause the high moisture readings 28-37%? or was it because I finally packed the bales tight. I did get a reading of 14-17% on the repacked bales that also saw the dew, but did not have as much area exposed to the dew, but they were still not packed as tight as I eventually set it. (between settings is when I broke the meter). How much will squishing that bale raise the meter reading? Is there some technical data on that somewhere?

3. Finally, on my Friday baling that saw the wednesday rain, would those bales be OK to feed to horses with the raking & drying that happened on thursday and friday? How long does it take for mold to form (they were wet for about about 16-24 hours and it was in the 50's - 60's)? (My wife, the horseperson, says they look and smell great to her...but I'm concerned it will form during storage.)

Thanks in advance to taking the time to read this novel...


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## Lazy J (Jul 18, 2008)

Forgive my directness, but you can NOT make hay with your rear end stuck on the tractor seat! Get you rear end off the tractor and feel the hay, check your bales, and assess the situation directly.

Now to your questions.

You did not post your location, but it is possible that they hay dried in 30 hours. The loose bales definately affected the moisture testing, plus the meter is calibrated for alfalfa, not for grass. I bet that the hay was not ready, hence the problem you had with the dew.

Dew is a fact of life, just have to wait for the sun to evaporate it. You should not have issues as long as the hay was dry enough after the dew dries off.

Let the hay cure for a while before calling it "great for horses". The molds will grow after a while if the moisture is too high.

Jim


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

Zeke, I find that when I bale and test in the field, the hay will test 4~8 points lower than when the hay has set a few days in the barn and started to sweat. I use a Delmhorst F2000. This is more pronounced with Alfalfa or Clover but will happen with Grass also. My theory is that when you first bale the outside surfaces of the hay is dry but there is some retained moisture in the stems. Once the bale is compressed and sits for a while then the moisture can equalize within the bale and cause the readings to be higher. If the hay is truly cured, you can get by with a little more moisture from dew.

I'm best off when my bales check about 10% in the field, then they will stay below 18% during the "sweat". This has been hard to do between showers for the last three years in a row. Hope this helps. The Midwest is a challenge to bale good hay.


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## geiselbreth (Feb 21, 2010)

dont like moisture meters unless they are calibrated for that particular crop i cook mine in the microwave oven that is a sure way if u take a good sample i check bale weight and moisture throut the day as hay gets dryer it gets lighter i have learned with my 338 jd with baleskiss 4.5 inchec of screw thread in 12 to 15% hay gives me a 55 lb bale if i make the thread longer to get the weight down hay to damp


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Probably alot wetter than you think it was.Orchardgrass can have alot of moisture left in the stem when leaves are dry,especialy if cut before mature.

Next time leave the tester in the cab and peel a stem apart and see if it is wet in center.









Dew moisure will throw off moisture testers big time.Mine in the baler will show WET (over 30% ) and it will actualy be about 18%.As soon as the dew burns off it drops to 18%.


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes loose bales will lower the probe reading....but again if you bale them loose, and if you don't pile them right away, you can tolerate a little more moisture because they breathe better.

Yes grass can cure into the teens in 30 hours if you do everything right.

Yes dew will throw a probe for a loop.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

To answer your original question,



> Did I screw up?


Yes! You started messing with Hay.


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## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

yea, I hear ya. I learned that lesson.I was trusting a guy that's made more hay than I'll ever see. He was trusting a technology proble he knew nothing about... you might say we were Dumb and Dumber for that moment.

My location is northern Chester County in PA.

Yea, the dew was the precursor to an inch of rain, so I quit baling when I got the high readings and just had to let it rain.

No one answered my question about it suitability for horses after it's seen 16-24 hours of wetness. How long does it take for mold to take hold? Mind you the next day was again dry and sunny by 10am. And the afternoon was back to very low humidity and 83 degrees and breezy. I raked twice to fluff the windrows to let the air and sunshine in.


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## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

>>Yes! You started messing with Hay. 

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

I guess I'm getting dumber in my old age. 

All seriousness aside, I got to tell ya it's been fun AND a challenge. I now have more hay than storage and more to cut... that's the bigger problem now. I just started out wanting to hay a 6 acre pasture I have... now look at me!! My mind is writing checks this old body is having a hard time cashing!!

Thanks for the comic relief.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

> No one answered my question about it suitability for horses after it's seen 16-24 hours of wetness. How long does it take for mold to take hold? Mind you the next day was again dry and sunny by 10am. And the afternoon was back to very low humidity and 83 degrees and breezy. I raked twice to fluff the windrows to let the air and sunshine in.


Zeke, as long as the hay is under ~18% when baled you should not have any mold, even if it was rained on. So if it was dry when you baled it then I wouldn't hesitate to feed it to a horse. (my opinion don't count for much around my place so your mileage may vary)


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## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

sedurbin, yea, I think your theory has merit. Under higher compression I see the same hay seem a bit wetter at the knife cross cuts on the stems too. The mower-conditioner has reduced that dramatically, but it's just logical that the sun bleaches out the surface moisture first and the compression helps the inner moisture find it's way through the bale, especially since it's conditioned and the normal stem structure is altered.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

ZekeTheDog said:


> No one answered my question about it suitability for horses after it's seen 16-24 hours of wetness. How long does it take for mold to take hold? Mind you the next day was again dry and sunny by 10am. And the afternoon was back to very low humidity and 83 degrees and breezy. I raked twice to fluff the windrows to let the air and sunshine in.


As a breeder, trainer, barn owner, and other stupid things, I'm pretty picky about hay for horses (I mainly worry about the mares and babies). However, the reality is that they will eat and do fine on a lot worse than what they usually get. The horse owners are more concerned that they are. I made some high moisture bales last week, salted them and gave them lots of ventalation. They are just fine and the horses love them. Don't stack them, let them breathe and they'll prrobably be fime.

I left some windrows in the field last week when I broke my baler and they got rained on. I fluffed them, let them set a day, and baled them yesterday. We fed the partial bales when I cleaned out the baler yesterday and they were quite happy with it. I've never seen mold form in a windrow, only in bales. You can tell when you break the bale and a cloud of dust comes out of it. I know of people who will take a moldy bale, wash it and feed it wet with no problems.....I've never tried it myself.


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## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

>(my opinion don't count for much around my place so your mileage may vary) 
so you're married too I see... ROFL

>as long as the hay is under ~18% when baled you should not have any mold, even if it was rained on. 
Thanks for that.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> You can tell when you break the bale and a cloud of dust comes out of it. I know of people who will take a moldy bale, wash it and feed it wet with no problems.....I've never tried it myself.


I've heard that more than once from the Amish in my area. Horses can eat dusty hay no problem, they just can't breath the dust is what the Amish tell me. So they wet em down or feed it outside where the dust has a chance to escape while the critter is eating.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

What mlappin said is the same as what I've heard - that hroses can eat dusty hay, but it has to be wet, since the dust would get in their lungs. I've also heard that hay that is lightly dusty is better fed on the ground, than up in the air, like a net.

Baling hay that was rained on is not a poblem, as long as it was dry when it was baled and stored. Orchardgrass could dry in 30 hours this time of year, especially if it was extra mature. The more mature a grass get the faster it will dry down for you. I'd be a little concerned at the 14-17% if no preservative was applied, since the moisture will undoubtedly go up in storage for a few days, up to 2 weeks. The stems of the plant dry out rather nicely, but you wil find that it is the joints that take the longest to dry out thoroughly. We will bale the next day (if we can), but we apply preservative to keep the bales from getting any heat.

You were talking about the dew on the hay..... most times it will take till 11 or 12 noon for the dew to burn off, i'm guessing that you waited till then to start baling? We're only 1 county away (berks) so my weather is about the same as yours.

Rodney


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## Dolphin (May 21, 2010)

We've bought dusty hay, soaked it and threw it in the rack, no prob. The horses liked it wet. Hay without dust is preferable of course, but if dusty hay is all you've got...


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I've never had to wet down dusty/moldy hay because I make efforts to prevent it. However, you are all correct about feeding on the ground, soaking, etc. They will eat it and do just fine. When we lived in Europe, they soaked almost all forage before feeding, main thing was beet pulp (which we still use once in a while). The biggest issue with horses is that you take your time when switching feed so that their gut can accomodate the new feed. They are not nearly as picky as their owners are.


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

I agree with sedurbin, since you gave time to dry before started up again you should be fine on the mold side of things.

Grasses can dry down pretty quick. If you have any alfalfa-grass mixed fields that grass will help the fields dry faster than a pure alfalfa field though I don't think there are too many of those out in PA.

Moisture meters can be very touchy. I've seen the readings vary 10% just by how tightly the hay was packed into a 5 ga pail so bale density will definitely affect the moisture readings. I agree with geiselbreth that the microwave is really the most accurate way to go to deteremine moisture, but it may not always be easily done that way. If you continue to use the moisture meter take you measurements the same way everytime. Again geiselbreth's and sedurbin's posts above are right on the money here.


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## ZekeTheDog (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi neighbor. I'm looking for another farm up that way. We're getting chased out of here by al lthe development. You take your life in your hands moving equipment on the roads around here now.

You asked whether I waiting to bail with the dew, well, at first I didn't since it was reading 8-10% the day before, I figured I'd see what the readings were. I packed a few bales, hit it with a moisture meter and it was reading upper 20's. I cut the twine and let it lay. This was last wednesday when it rained all afternoon and night. By 11am it was raining, so dew wasn't a problem









I'm near the Downingtown exit of the TP. Bt the radar maps I've seen, you folks had a lot more rain than us. I must be living right. We had lightning streaking above us and hitting around us while in the field, wind nearly knocking you down, and we could see the rain all around us, but it never rained on our fields until we got product tucked away each day. I think the good Lord is sucking me into this as a business for some reason... I was only looking to make 1000 bales/year max.... I blew past that on the first cutting and still have 1 more field to cut but I'm out of dry storage areas until I get some more sold!


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Zeke,
I meant that the dew would normally make it too wet to bale. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm thinking that you're at a good spot to sell hay. We had a big customer in West Chester till a few years ago. He had a lot of 50-100 bale loads go out of his place. MANY horse places in your area. You've got a lot more traffic on the roads than we do, and we have wider roads, but nobody slows down for us either! I met a lady the other night with a drill that plants 15 ft, and measures right around 16 ft, and I was off the road, and she held her place in her lane, there was no way she was going to slow down, or move over a little..... I could see her 'cringe' from the tractor seat. Had 1.5 on wednesday, and nothing today. We baled some hay extremely tough last night, and at this point we should have left it lay.

Rodney


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