# Anybody use renewable solar or wind energy on their farm?



## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Wondering if anyone has solar panels or wind turbines for personnel use on the farm. If so, what do you think, worth it or is the technology or money just not there yet for this. Just curious.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Not sure here, but the village council is paying for Tammy's cousin in England to get solar panels on his house. They seem to think it's worth it. I seem to think it's one of many reasons most of the European union is slowly but surely going broke. The village pays for it and he gets the benefit with no personal out of pocket expense.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

downtownjr said:


> Wondering if anyone has solar panels or wind turbines for personnel use on the farm. If so, what do you think, worth it or is the technology or money just not there yet for this. Just curious.


Jim, In the last ten years the use of wind turbines has exploded in many states west of the MS river. Kansas has really invested heavily in this technology. I see alot in WY too. If you lived in a area where you have frequent wind currents, wind turbines would be my first area of investigation. There must be some advantage to this form of tech. I know of a fellow here in TN that has a wind turbine, but his is older tech.....the newer turbines are much more efficient and most importantly, less maintenance required. A system that utilized both forms might work out best for the homeowner. Frequently, the
payoff on a solar system is 20 years or more.....pretty sure that wind power is less time.









Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

There is a few around here.But the problem is the wind doesn't blow all the time.So you still have to buy power some of the time.If you have excess power they may buy it but the switches are expensive to do that and they pay you alot less for power then what you pay them.I see where they are trying out some huge battery systems that charge up when the wind blows that you can draw off of when the wind isn't blowing.But they are expensive also.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

All power generated is put onto the "grid" nothing is kept for personal use 
In Ontario, the provincal government put a plan in to action that pays 80.2 cents per Kw/H on small (<10Kw) ground mounted solar panels. This is the old pricing scheme, and this price was never meant to be for ground mounted systems, it was meants for roof-top (but the lawyers found a loop-hole...). The ground mounted systems use active sun tracking, which means that they follow the sun through the sky to get maximum exposure, and therefore produce more power.
Reality steps in for a moment, right now we pay by time of usage rates, during certain, "peak" times of the day, the price paid for power goes up to 10.2 cents. Evenings, weekends and holidays are all off peak times which is 6.2 cents, and there is mid peak which fits in the middle at 9.2 cents.
The purpose of explaining all of that is this: WHY ARE WE PAYING 80.2 CENTS FOR SOMETHING THAT WE SELL FOR 10.2 cents on the high side of things. This green engergy plan is nothing but a loosing situation. 
Windturbines (13.5 cents) have divided neighbors in the rural communtity, without even bringing in the urban crowd. Some people talk about un-proven science that shows turbines causing health issues, cancer,headaches etc...
Some rural people claim that they ruin property values, they destroy the picturesc landscape view, and finally some claim that they kill birds. So everyone is all over the map on it and it is going to get worse before it gets better. 
There are so many more details and scenereos to this FIT (feed in tarrif) program, if I were to mention them all no one else would have room to comment.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Imagine that, power costs 6-10 cents in Canada, but the government pays 80 cents if it's green power....seems like the idjits that run the USA and Canada are pretty much interchangeable.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

My barn runs North-South so I have a lot of roof with an East-West exposure, I also get an almost continuous wind. I've looked into both solar and wind power options and even with the available subsidies, I wouldn't see a payback in my remaining life expectancy. I guess I'll just have to be one of those people that the younger generation cusses because I didn't try to save the planet when I had the chance. Oh well.......


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

As far as wind generation goes there are large companies (mostly American ownership) that will get contracts, approvals and sighn any neighbors on to the program that are need due to the separation requirements. So basicallly all you need is land, no problems looking at the turbine, and no problems letting your neighbors pay for your morgage.
But in reality, it does have the closest cost of production to the actual electricity price at 13.5 cents. We will be there before long if this keeps up and it could be a deal!
Keep in mind the wind never blows when you need it, it only blows when we are on surplus... so we sell power to NY and Quebec for a cut rate. Now, figure in all of the premiums that were given out and all of the sudden it just cost you a couple of million dollars in the exchange. 
Enter the problems in rural Ontario. We pay an increasing amount for power, to make large corporate farms more money and financial and investment firms own wind turbines. This is the rift that has been cut into the province. (As I see it)


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

How long a period is that 13.5 cents figured at. It would seem other than maintenance after a certain amount of time after the windmills have paid for themselves, the land they sit on and the cost of erecting them and getting the power away, the cost should drop considerably. I'm also guessing by time all of the mentioned expenses are paid out, it's time to replace the windmill.

Most of the renewable resource stuff reminds me of this:

[video]http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104283/smug-2006[/video]


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm starting to think our parents had the solar/wind thing down better than we do. Mom didn't pay a penny to dry our clothes growing up. Didn't pay anything to the power company to cool our house, either. And our heating source, (again, free to us) would warm me twice.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

The contract is for 20 years. You will find a lot of biased propaganda from both sides on the internet if you try and search it. I won't say that there is no propaganda on this site, but this is the one that has all of the reules, regulations and payouts. It is the OPAs site Ontario Power Authority. 
If you look at the other methods of generation such as biomass, landfill gas and water generation you will find some of the more sustainable methods of producing green energy.
this is for over 10Kw (mostly investors and corporate owned)
What is the Feed-in Tariff Program? | Ontario Power Authority - Feed-in Tariff Program

there is no maximum size under the full FIT program, some are over 190 Mega Watt (that takes a lot of turbines by the way)

And this is the Micro Fit under 10Kw program, this is owned by idividual farmers and small business
Welcome to microFIT | Ontario Power Authority

Who can say what is right and what is wrong, I have no horse in this race and it will stay this way.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

On the practical side of the original question, last summer during the drought in Texas, the small pond in the west pasture of our place became a mud hole and the "continuously" flowing creek in that pasture dried up so we had to move the cattle to the hay meadow where a larger pond still had water. Consequently, what was intended to be cut and baled for hay became a standing hay crop that took the cattle through the summer and fall until the rye, oats, and ryegrass cool season pasture was ready to graze.

Realizing that we possibly could run out of water for the cattle, and having an unused well on the ranch, we invested in a solar pump and panels for this well. The system arrived and shortly thereafter it began raining and refilling out ponds so we didn't install the pump and panels until this spring.

We have a gang of six, 190 Watt panels bolted to a rack on a 6" schedule 40 iron pipe. The panels are tilted at 35 degrees that power a Grundfios (Sp?) pump set in the 4-inch cased well at 300 ft deep. This system was installed to provide fresh and clean drinking water for the cattle. In the morning when my shadow is as long as I am tall, the pump puts out 3 gallons per minute. At straight up sun around 1:00 PM, the system generates 8 gallons per minute. I'm still working at getting the necessary pipe installed to move the water 1,300 feet to drinking troughs so that the cattle in the west pasture can have fresh water to drink.

The alternative to this system was to pay at least $3,300 to the local co-op to install a power line to the well from our home. This would have meant also purchasing an AC pump and putting it into the well and paying a monthly meter fee along with paying for the energy used to power the pump for the duration. We think this system will pay off in the long run, but time will tell.


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

I installed a CapSolar yr round watering system 4yrs ago. It's 24 volt, 4 - 6 volt deep cycle batteries, a 450 gallon tank with 2 panels. Static water level 160 feet and my pump is at 180 feet. I run 130 cow/calf pairs and have had only 1 problem with the system. I had 6 days of snow and no sunshine and had change the batteries. As long as something is drinking out of trough everyday in the winter, it hasn't froze yet. Going to get another solar system this fall to fence off a dugout. Definitly worth the $7500 for drilling of the well, 16 foot cement pad, trough, and solar system. There was a goverment program on when I installed it, goverment pays half of complete system.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks Dirtball08. Since I still need to install my water troughs, you may have answers that I need. A 450 gallon tank (trough?) waters 130 cow/calf pairs? What is the output of your system in gal/min?

My solar pumping system has no storage batteries so will only be pumping in sunlight or if no sunlight for a few days, I can connect this system to a generator to run the pump. With this system, what trough capacity would you recommend for 40 cow/calf pairs? I was thinking about using two 650 gallon troughs.

Also, I'm curious about the design of your cement pad? My thought was to build a raised cement pad with a slope going away from the trough so that the cattle wouldn't be able to stand with all 4s next to the trough. With your system, do you have any problem with cattle mudding the soil around the trough?


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Friend of mine, just North of Temple, was without water for 4 days so he put in a 1,500 gallon storage tank and hooked it to a weak well.
While they were without community water the stock drank from the creek, and he carried water to flush. That plus a couple of Spring Water Bottles did for that duration. They can be with out water for months now.

Then the Electric Company had them with out electricity for, you guessed it, 4 days. First thing he did was put up a small wind generator. Turns out it was way too small. He then put in a Larger Wind Generator, Turns out just because the blades are turning does not mean it is making electricity. Turns out these generators need 8 mph wind to produce anything useful.
Then he mounted panels on the roof, and a good sized battery system to give them power the next time the electricity goes off. Which it does from time to time, during thunder storms. His batteries will run a refrigerator and some lights but not the air conditioning. Then they pulled out the electric clothes drier and put in a gas drier. While at it they put in a gas powered refrigerator as a spare in the Mud Room. Then they put in a summer kitchen with a gas range.
Eventually he pulled out the big hot water heater and put in 3 gas fired flash heaters and has instant hot water in the Kitchen, Utility Room and Bathrooms. 
As long as they do not feel the need for airconditioning they are in good shape
He will admit to the generator, plus solar panels plus batteries exceeded $30,000. He does not say how much he has in the rest of the system.

*With all the above his electric bill from Texas Utilities is now a third of what they used to pay. *

From what I have heard if diesel is more than $10/Gallon renewable energy might pay. Only if the subsidy for putting in the Panels &/or generators stays in place.


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

Il'll tell you one thing about these projects here, the more of these projects that come "on-line," the higher the electricity bill for everyone will be. The our own money that is collected through electricity bills is going to fund this malarchy. It doesn't seem all that reasonable that my bill is projected (which means a wild guess) to go up as high as 300-400%. Some of these people who have taken part in this have dairy farms that use in excess of $1500 per month of power, so if this increase does happen, they will still end up in the red...


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

vhaby said:


> Thanks Dirtball08. Since I still need to install my water troughs, you may have answers that I need. A 450 gallon tank (trough?) waters 130 cow/calf pairs? What is the output of your system in gal/min?
> 
> My solar pumping system has no storage batteries so will only be pumping in sunlight or if no sunlight for a few days, I can connect this system to a generator to run the pump. With this system, what trough capacity would you recommend for 40 cow/calf pairs? I was thinking about using two 650 gallon troughs.
> 
> Also, I'm curious about the design of your cement pad? My thought was to build a raised cement pad with a slope going away from the trough so that the cattle wouldn't be able to stand with all 4s next to the trough. With your system, do you have any problem with cattle mudding the soil around the trough?


Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I'm not on here very much lately. The Lorenz 24v pump is putting out 5 gal/min. The water tank is circular with the 4 batteries and well in the center. With the lid off, it looks like a large dounut. There are 4 drinking holes for the animals to drink out of. Go to capsolar.com and you can see what these look like. Look for the yr round, solar cattle watering systems. They even give diagrams on how to install on the website.

You could use the 450 gal tank or depending on where your getting your water from, (well or dugout) you could use the Vortex solar watering system. It has an motion detector that turns the pump on as cattle get a certain distance from the water bowl. The bowl is 36" wide, 12" deep and when the cattle leave the certain distance or if the cattle stand around the bowl not drinking, there are holes around the top of the bowl that drains the water back to the holding area under the bowl. When all the cattle leave the area, all the water in the bowl is drained back to the holding area.

If watering from a dugout, this system is a very good design. You mount the bowl on a 36"x20' culvert and run a 4" pipe underground to the dugout at a 18' depth. The solar pump is at a depth of 8-10', that way you always 8-10' of water in the culvert at all times and your below the frost line if you plan using it in the winter. I plan on putting this system on the 120ac I seeded to grass this spring. I'll fence off the dugout and install this.

This system can be used on drilled well as long as your drain back pipe is not going back down the well. You don't want contaiminate the ground water. A little more cost involved with a drilled well but works good.

My cement pad is octagon shaped, 4" thick and has a 1/2" slope to the north so there is no standing water on the pad at anytime. The pad is big enough so the cattle can have all 4 legs on the pad at 1 time. I thought this would be better than only 2 legs because of the cattle pushing and shoving each other, their not digging in the dirt making holes. In 4 yrs the ground around the cement pad has only dropped 1 1/2" except on the north side of the pad. It's dropped about 5 ".

I'll try and find the website for the Vortex solar waterier and let you know.

Hope this helps and again sorry it took so long.


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## dirtball08 (Jun 26, 2011)

I also want to install a turbine on the solar system, so when theres snow or fog, the batteries will still get charged. The lowest turbine speed I've been able to find is 3mph. A litttle more costly, but worth it.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Wonder if our contaiment pit for composting steers counts? I've thought about laying plastic pipe in the sump and using the composting heat to heat the shop..

It's renewable energy, sort of.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

We have passive solar heating in the house and shop, if its sunny and above -20 C, we don't need any source of heat in the day. It didn't cost anything other than we put almost all the windows on the south side.

Solar electric isn't really cost effective here, we don't get much sun in parts of the year so the payback stretches out. A couple of neighbours have better sites and have turbines, our electricity is 10 cents a kW to buy but they can only get 2.5 cent a kW if they send it into the grid because thats what Quebec is selling hydro for. We don't have the same rules as Ontario in that regard. Still a fair amount of people putting up towers.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

slowzuki said:


> We have passive solar heating in the house and shop, if its sunny and above -20 C, we don't need any source of heat in the day. It didn't cost anything other than we put almost all the windows on the south side.
> 
> Solar electric isn't really cost effective here, we don't get much sun in parts of the year so the payback stretches out. A couple of neighbours have better sites and have turbines, our electricity is 10 cents a kW to buy but they can only get 2.5 cent a kW if they send it into the grid because thats what Quebec is selling hydro for. We don't have the same rules as Ontario in that regard. Still a fair amount of people putting up towers.


How come you don't have your location posted in your profile and avatar??

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Not sure, I probably only filled in required fields when I registered. I'll add it in. I'm in near Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada - Basically an hour east of Houlton, Maine.


Vol said:


> How come you don't have your location posted in your profile and avatar??
> 
> Regards, Mike


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Vol said:


> Jim, In the last ten years the use of wind turbines has exploded in many states west of the MS river. Kansas has really invested heavily in this technology. I see alot in WY too. If you lived in a area where you have frequent wind currents, wind turbines would be my first area of investigation. There must be some advantage to this form of tech. I know of a fellow here in TN that has a wind turbine, but his is older tech.....the newer turbines are much more efficient and most importantly, less maintenance required. A system that utilized both forms might work out best for the homeowner. Frequently, the
> payoff on a solar system is 20 years or more.....pretty sure that wind power is less time.
> 
> 
> ...


Got to thinking about wind power and renewable energy thing......

Would make sense both economically and politically, to install a bank of wind turbines around the Whitehouse. Lots of wind generated there thats going to waste.......


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

ARD Farm said:


> Got to thinking about wind power and renewable energy thing......
> 
> Would make sense both economically and politically, to install a bank of wind turbines around the Whitehouse. Lots of wind generated there thats going to waste.......


Don't forget to install the methane powered generators, too.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

I use solar panels to power a couple fence energizers on remote farms and also to pump water in a cattle wintering area. It only seems feasable when it is going to be way too expensive to run power to a location.


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