# Organic Hay



## WaterShedRanch (Jan 29, 2012)

I raise hay in north central ohio. I was recently approached by a landowner who wants to get his farm certified organic. He thinks the best way to go about this is to raise a conventional wheat crop. Then overseas with a grass/alfalfa mix. Now I understand what it takes to become certified organic. No GMO seed, no Comercial spray or fertilizer. But my question is this. In my mind the only way going through all the extra hassle of raising a certified organic crip would be if there is a significant premium to be had. I've never been approached by anyone asking where to find organic hay, I don't know of many organic farms in my area that buy organic hay. So how would I start to develop a niche market that would demand a premium for am organic crop?


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## TJH (Mar 23, 2014)

The land also has to not have any of those inputs for 3 years to be certified. You have your work cut out, you have to find those willing to pay the price. And those will be yuppies and treehuggers.


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## WaterShedRanch (Jan 29, 2012)

I know exactly what you're saying.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I just cut "hay" on a farm that's "organic".
There maybe 30% warm season grass and 70% of the nastiest weeds you ever laid your eyes on. 
Honestly, I hope it doesn't ruin my reputation even trying to sell it as mushroom/mulch hay.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

How would a person go about obtaining the correct Ph in an organic hay field. I am not asking to be sarcastic.

We have to replace nutrients when we remove the product the nutrients in the soil produces.

Here our soil is acidic and regular applications of lime are inevitable. When we get the Ph right it really helps with the weeds. Most of the undesirable plants I deal with do well in acidic soil and are much easier to control when the Ph is basic.

Some times I believe the term organic to some means not spending any money to care for the soil.

Can Ph be adjusted with manure?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> How would a person go about obtaining the correct Ph in an organic hay field. I am not asking to be sarcastic.
> We have to replace nutrients when we remove the product the nutrients in the soil produces.
> Here our soil is acidic and regular applications of lime are inevitable. When we get the Ph right it really helps with the weeds. Most of the undesirable plants I deal with do well in acidic soil and are much easier to control when the Ph is basic.
> Some times I believe the term organic to some means not spending any money to care for the soil.
> ...


Pretty sure it can be adjusted with mushroom soil. It supposedly works as good as lime.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

Watershed, I don't know why the owner would want to invest in organic production if you haven't already identified a market for the product such as feeding it to his own livestock. If he doesn't mind incuring additional expense only to sell at the same price as conventionally grown hay then that's his choice. Improving soil structure and avoiding chemical inputs are reasonable concerns but there are tradeoffs that you have begun to identify. Also, you don't say how many acres he wants to convert to organic but our experience is that its very difficult to do on a large scale. We have 15-20 acres of hayfields that meet organic standards and we could not expand beyond that without incurring huge input expense. First, Our primary nutrient source is composted bedding from the cattle barn and sheep barn. We also have a nearby turkey/poultry operation that contributes their bedding material. If we didn't have those sources we could not build soil organic matter and replenish micro nutrients affordably. Also, it takes a LOT of bedding to make enough compost for even one acre. Second, we are in an area with several wood burning powerplants and have access to woodash at very affordable costs. Bulk woodash is half as effective as lime for adjusting ph, but it also has high levels of potassium. It is an important soil amendment and keeps our input costs low. Lastly, even with careful management we do have more "weeds" on the organic fields even though some like dandelion are good forage quality. I'm not looking to get into a pissing match but organic does not equate with poor quality or poor yields. Its how the fields are managed that matters most. Our second and third cut hay from fields that are primarily alfalfa and orchard grass have lab analysis of 17-19% protein and RFV of 140-160. We use most for our flock of breeding ewes and sell the excess to dairy goat operators. I'm not suggesting organic is for everyone. Just that it works for us and can be a sustainable practice if you have the knowledge AND resources. Feel free to share this opinion with the landowner.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I strongly considered organic hay when we reclaimed our old hay fields. They would/could have been certified organic from the get-go. I found much buzz about organic, but when I reached out to potential customers - organic wasn't on their list and they certainly weren't interested in paying more for it. In fact, probably most of those who buy hay from me don't have a clue what is quality hay - they are buying on price alone.

Hope you can make a go if it.

Bill


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## WaterShedRanch (Jan 29, 2012)

I have acess to chicken litter. Can't you adjust pH of an organic farm with lime? It is natural. I'm not looking to change my whole operation to organic. I hate seeing weedy fields. The best thing Ive ever done was plant Roundup Ready alfalfa. Its nics to be able to go in and clean up a field if necessary. I just got talking to a gentleman about it and It got my gears turning. didn't even ask about total acerage.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

WaterShedRanch said:


> I have acess to chicken litter. Can't you adjust pH of an organic farm with lime? It is natural.


I would think you could. The local here who raises organic vegetables said he could not. I am not certain he knows.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

If you mow four cuttings per year, that would become your best weed management too in organic hay. Alfalfa grass mixes are also your best friend. Your best market is dairies even if they aren't nearby. Good organic dairy hay has a market.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Well, I'd make sure I had a market before even messing with it.

Most years my buddy with the organic dairy herd buys organic hay out of state and pays less for it than I sell my nasty ole non organic hay for, but he's buying in the summer and I sell mine in the winter. This year he is buying from the Dakotas, trucking from their to Indiana is going to eat him alive, again.

He buys his calf and bull hay from me as organic is too expensive for those critters, about time he's sure the heifers are bred he moves them with the milk cows so they have the required minimum of 6 months of organic feed.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

Bulk lime is absolutely acceptable for organic. I mentioned the woodash because it is so much cheaper for us than lime which we have to truck 5-6 hours. 8350 makes a great point about 4 cuttings per year with alfalfa/orchard grass. There aren't many weeds here that can compete with our mix if we get enough cuttings.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd pass on organize hay unless you can cut at least 3x/yr.
The farm I mentioned that I'm doing now is only 2x/yr and it's a mess.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Fossil02818 said:


> Bulk lime is absolutely acceptable for organic. I mentioned the woodash because it is so much cheaper for us than lime which we have to truck 5-6 hours. 8350 makes a great point about 4 cuttings per year with alfalfa/orchard grass. There aren't many weeds here that can compete with our mix *if *we get enough cuttings.


Thats a big if, I still have 36 acres of first to do and got another three inches of rain last night. For some reason father thinks we can get on it anytime we have a window, told him to get some duals for the front of his MF8160 and I'll give it a try but he's cleaning the discbine after it gets all mudded up.


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## Jay in WA (Mar 21, 2015)

No market for organic hay here but their is a good organic vegetable market. Alfalfa is used as the transition crop here. Spray the new seeding asap and 3 years from that date your certified to harvest organic.


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## OhioHay (Jun 4, 2008)

No premium for organic hay here most years. The organic dairies grow their own. There does seem to be a good premium for organic corn silage.


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## Fossil02818 (May 31, 2010)

There isn't much of an organic premium here either. We sell 45lb 2nd and 3rd cut small squares for $6.50/bale and I ask $7/bale for anything above 150 RFV. The goat dairy customers are more concerned about quality and protein levels than organic certification. Most of those customers would still buy from us even if it wasn't organic. They just can't find much alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay around here. The dairy farms that do grow it need it for their own herds and there isn't much available around here. Many of those farms that do grow alfalfa are rolling and wrapping haylage. Just too tough to get 3-4 day good haying windows without rain to dry alfalfa.


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