# Windrows, Wet Ground, and Tedding - What do you do?



## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

The question was asked in another post - I can't remember which one and I don't think the question was answered - for those of us who use tedders, how wide do you set your windrows when you mow on wet ground? Spread it wide, or make narrow windrows to let the ground dry out before tedding?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Tall and narrow, ted next day. Keeps from running over the downed hay and mashing it into the ground.

Ralph


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Narrow. Let the ground dry. Ted.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2015)

Same. If the ground is wet, narrow it up, let the ground dry, ted the next day if ground is dry.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Being new to the tedding thing I just can't see how it can adequately spread a narrow windrow? I tried mine on a narrow windrow that had dried already several days and it didn't spread it very evenly. It spread a wide windrow recently cut nearly perfect. My windrows come from a 15 foot swather though. And 1st cutting that is a lot of hay.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

On the one that you waited a few days to ted, you waited too long.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Yep, when I Ted it is always the next morning after cutting when the hay is still green unless I'm tedding out rained on hay.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Grateful11 said:


> On the one that you waited a few days to ted, you waited too long.


Didn't wait to long didn't even have the Tedder when it was cut. It was an experiment. Next field I cut I'll do some narrow and most wide to see which is best


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

From what I've found, the trick to tedding is to have your tedder matched to the windrow width.

I run a 4 basket tedder, 17'(?) width, on windrows from a NH H7230 10'6" moco.

The moco windrows are set to about 8+' widths so that my right tractor tires run on bare ground and my left tires may just catch the left side of the windrow (unless I'm running tall/narrow).

This then allows my tedder baskets to split two windrows, i.e., each pair of baskets is grabbing the center line of a windrow. I set the tines so that they are about 1.5" off the ground.

Ground speed vs PTO RPM vs crop density vs crop moisture makes a difference. I run slow enough ground speed so that the tedder can almost grab individual stems and throw it out. RPM speed and crop weight determine how fair a stem will get thrown. If it's a little dry, I run a lower RPM to avoid throwing the crop over the previous pass.

What I'm looking for is that the crop is spread pretty evenly across the entire ground area.

Ralph


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Latest weather shows a three day stretch of good weather. There's a 50% chance of a thunderstorm on day 4. Day 5 is sunny and 80 degrees. I think I'm going to mow some hay tomorrow - and I'll move in the deflectors on the haybine to make narrow windrows. Thanks everyone!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Same here, set the mower narrow so more ground is exposed, depending on conditions I've waited several days before tedding to let the ground dry, last year here was extremely wet.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Teslan- can't remember if you got a 4 banger or 6, but like Ralph said, matching the tedder to the mower is extremely important. I am running a 17' krone and a NH 1409 which has a little over 9 ft cut width. They are perfectly matched. So windrowed tight, the cut windrows are pulled apart by the two baskets on each side. It lines up with the windrow lining up with the middle of the two baskets. It will sling them anyway and wherever I want. Just a matter of ground speed and pto speed to match the conditions and that just takes practice to get the results you want.

Now with your situation, with heavy windrows, you have to go slow on the ground speed and probably about 1500-1600 on your tach to get the material picked up and slung. If you have a 4 banger and windrows on 15' centers, you can't do what I do, but you should be able to pull half of each windrow with the outer rotors but you probably have to really pay attention to your driving as it is tight and you don't want a hidden half of untedded windrow. Then next pass, you move over about 1/3 tedder width and it should all be well tedded.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I have a 6 rotor. I need to experiment more, but so far what has worked well is to spread out my 15 foot swath to about 8 feet(that's as far as it goes). The outer two rotors on each side get most of the windrow and what's left the inner two get. I don't strattle a windrow as it will get the middle windrow well, but only 1/3 of the other two. Then on the next round I'll miss some. Maybe it would do better with narrow windrows if I strattle one. I'll try that in the next field I cut. I was satisfied with the spread of just doing two wider windrows a time, but then I'm just going on what I think is good. It was able to bale in two days which is a record for me. Especially considering the abnormally high humidity we have been having. The first narrow windrows I tried were my cousins and had been cut a week with 2 inches of rain on them. Add that to we didn't know yet how the Tedder should be adjusted. Having never seen one in person much less running. I found about 500 rpm for the pto and about 6 mph seemed to be ideal for my 1st grass hay for now.


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## traden86 (May 16, 2013)

On our wet ground this year I have pulled in the swath boards to the tightest setting on our 13' disc bine, about a 5' windrow. We run our 4 basket Krone over no more than a day later to spread it back out. It perfectly catches 2 mower swaths and works very well.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Same here, set the mower narrow so more ground is exposed, depending on conditions I've waited several days before tedding to let the ground dry, last year here was extremely wet.

For years and years I thought and managed hay close to all the above. Even would re rake in the evening to keep; the morning dew on the hay to a minimum.

On our wet ground this year I have pulled in the swath boards to the tightest setting on our 13' disc bine, about a 5' windrow. We run our 4 basket Krone over no more than a day later to spread it back out. It perfectly catches 2 mower swaths and works very well.

Then I more or less adopted this method. A 5 ft wide swath behind the mower behind a 9 ft mower bar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Later I read about dropping the hay into a really wide swath,

From a WV publication I found hay will be NO LOWER than 40% moisture when the humidity down near the hay is 90% RH. 
That with a 70% RH the hay will be no lower than 18% moisture. 
That with a 65% RH the hay will be no lower than 16% moisture.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I found this in a presentation By Dan Undersander. It was meant to demonstrate the advantage for wider swaths.
I used a copier to copy the demonstration graph and on graph paper. Next I modified and extended the graph and then built a chart to estimate the total Pan Evaporation needed for being able to bale.

I estimate the yield, I know what the swath width is, and estimate the total Pan Evaporation.
I pay for a WX Forecast that includes the daily Pan Evaporation. It is a guess on a guess that is guessed but it works well for me. I then plan to bale when the best guess says the 20% moisture will be. I then bale when the next day when the HUMIDITY goes down to 70%. I bale until the hay is all baled or the hay is showing signs of excessive leaf shatter.

I am sure you have a word smith who can make my method appear logical.

I hope this helps some one avoid my 40 years of poor hay management


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

GRRRrrrr I cannot get the picture of the graph to transfer to the above effort.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

I've pulled my wide/thin kit on my NH discbine entirely for this year and I'll ted it too....if I ever get it cut that is....

Crops are terrible here. beans are shot and weeds are supreme.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Hayman1 said:


> Teslan- can't remember if you got a 4 banger or 6, but like Ralph said, matching the tedder to the mower is extremely important. I am running a 17' krone and a NH 1409 which has a little over 9 ft cut width. They are perfectly matched. So windrowed tight, the cut windrows are pulled apart by the two baskets on each side. It lines up with the windrow lining up with the middle of the two baskets. It will sling them anyway and wherever I want. Just a matter of ground speed and pto speed to match the conditions and that just takes practice to get the results you want.
> 
> Now with your situation, with heavy windrows, you have to go slow on the ground speed and probably about 1500-1600 on your tach to get the material picked up and slung. If you have a 4 banger and windrows on 15' centers, you can't do what I do, but you should be able to pull half of each windrow with the outer rotors but you probably have to really pay attention to your driving as it is tight and you don't want a hidden half of untedded windrow. Then next pass, you move over about 1/3 tedder width and it should all be well tedded.


The problem with matching them perfectly is that once you get bigger than a 12 or 13 foot mower, there is no such tedder to match perfectly.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> The problem with matching them perfectly is that once you get bigger than a 12 or 13 foot mower, there is no such tedder to match perfectly.


Claas make a 25'; Massey Ferguson has 25' (may be a relabeled); Pequea makes a 26'6" -- all these are 6 baskets.

It's better to be a little too big than a touch too small.

Ralph


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

rjmoses said:


> Claas make a 25'; Massey Ferguson has 25' (may be a relabeled); Pequea makes a 26'6" -- all these are 6 baskets.
> 
> It's better to be a little too big than a touch too small.
> 
> Ralph


Everybody makes those. But..... Those aren't perfect matches because the rotors aren't centered on the rows.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Now I understand what you meant by not getting it wide enough. Never had that problem as I never had to redistribute the windrow out over as much space as you are talking about other than busting wet raked windrows which is a whole different kettle of fish. That always took multiple teddings. Sorry for my misunderstanding of your problem. rick


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> Everybody makes those. But..... Those aren't perfect matches because the rotors aren't centered on the rows.


EXACTLY.

I have a NH169, works okay tedding two 12' or 13' rows but works much better tedding three 9' rows which is what it was designed for, the rotors split each row in half and spread much more even with no clue to where your original rows might have been, can't say that when tedding rows from a 12 or 13' machine.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

mlappin said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> I have a NH169, works okay tedding two 12' or 13' rows but works much better tedding three 9' rows which is what it was designed for, the rotors split each row in half and spread much more even with no clue to where your original rows might have been, can't say that when tedding rows from a 12 or 13' machine.


Do you run between two swaths with yours? I've been experimenting this year with straddling one and doing half on each side. I've even kicked around the idea of, in certain situations, actually only taking 10' with the mower. Mowing is never my bottleneck and I'm curious if the better distribution of tedding three swaths from a "10'" machine could actually reduce my total time in some specific situations.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> Do you run between two swaths with yours? I've been experimenting this year with straddling one and doing half on each side. I've even kicked around the idea of, in certain situations, actually only taking 10' with the mower. Mowing is never my bottleneck and I'm curious if the better distribution of tedding three swaths from a "10'" machine could actually reduce my total time in some specific situations.


I drive between two rows, I've tried the row and a half thing and also straddling one, still tends to leave windrows.

My tedding tractor I've narrowed back up like it was when we were cultivating 30" rows yet. I have the mowing tractor set as wide as the front axle allows, then I make a windrow that fits exactly between the tires on the mowing tractor so i ain't mashing the fresh hay into the wet ground, then my tedding tractor fits exactly between those rows, if the mowing or tedder tractor hasn't driven on the hay makes it much easier to get it all picked up with the tedder without running the tedder teeth excessively close to the ground.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I believe the 8 basket rotors address a lot of the centering issues. Ive never usedone personally but I've seen them from the road. Someday I'll find out for sure.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I mowed a pasture today, made as narrow a windrow as possible. It might have to wait a day before tedding, as some spots were so wet I might as well have been mowing a rice paddy. The grass was dry, but the ground was definitely wet!


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

Teslan said:


> Didn't wait to long didn't even have the Tedder when it was cut. It was an experiment. Next field I cut I'll do some narrow and most wide to see which is best


Wasn't aware of when you bought the tedder.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Love my tedder! Mowed mixed grass hay Friday afternoon, got a couple hundredths of rain Fri night, tedded Sat morning & again mid afternoon, tedded at noon Sunday, raked at mid afternoon, then baled, finishing at 6:00! 1/2" of rain last night & today! Without the tedder, I wouldn't have made it!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Love my tedder! Mowed mixed grass hay Friday afternoon, got a couple hundredths of rain Fri night, tedded Sat morning & again mid afternoon, tedded at noon Sunday, raked at mid afternoon, then baled, finishing at 6:00! 1/2" of rain last night & today! Without the tedder, I wouldn't have made it!


3 times tedding? Is that normal for you? I wouldn't be able to do anything else if I had to ted 3 times


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Teslan said:


> 3 times tedding? Is that normal for you? I wouldn't be able to do anything else if I had to ted 3 times


Unfortunately, here in the (relatively) humid northeast, it is more or less common, unless we get an extended weather window! Our saying is "If you want your hay to dry, you gotta keep it in the air!" Most everyone mows with a mower/conditioner, and teds! Some are starting to use macerators or recons behind the mo-co as well. As for time to ted, each pass with the tedder takes about 1/2 the time that mowing does. Rotary rakes are popular in this area as well because of the type of windrow they make.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Unfortunately, here in the (relatively) humid northeast, it is more or less common, unless we get an extended weather window! Our saying is "If you want your hay to dry, you gotta keep it in the air!" Most everyone mows with a mower/conditioner, and teds! Some are starting to use macerators or recons behind the mo-co as well. As for time to ted, each pass with the tedder takes about 1/2 the time that mowing does. Rotary rakes are popular in this area as well because of the type of windrow they make.


I'm just thinking of the 45 acre field I raked, baled and stacked yesterday. That's big squares. I was averaging about 1 bale a minute or so said my baler. But that in itself took 6-7 hours. Add 2 teddings it couldn't be done in one day. Of course if I had someone to stack as I was baling it could happen, but still just barely.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Well, I'm estimating that I covered 3 acres for 300 40 lb bales, and from standing grass to in the barn on wagons, I've got about 9 man/equipment hours into it.


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Here's pictures of the equipment I'm working with. The last picture is an old one of the field I was working in this weekend. Only difference is that I didn't have the smaller tractor pictured, I did it all with the one tractor shown on the discbine & baler. Pictures are from July of 2008 Last picture showed 2nd crop coming on!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Here's pictures of the equipment I'm working with. The last picture is an old one of the field I was working in this weekend. Only difference is that I didn't have the smaller tractor pictured, I did it all with the one tractor shown on the discbine & baler. Pictures are from July of 2008 Last picture showed 2nd crop coming on!


Those pictures remind me of my aunt and uncles house in Maine.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> Here's pictures of the equipment I'm working with. The last picture is an old one of the field I was working in this weekend. Only difference is that I didn't have the smaller tractor pictured, I did it all with the one tractor shown on the discbine & baler. Pictures are from July of 2008 Last picture showed 2nd crop coming on!


Your equipment looks like it's at least 30 years newer than most of mine! I'm jealous...

Figures, I mowed about 1-1/2 acres last night because the forecast yesterday morning said there was a 20% chance of an afternoon thunderstorm today. Last night the forecast changed to 85% chance of rain and severe thunderstorms. That was an understatement because we got a monsoon today.

Tomorrow is supposed to be good weather, but now the ground I left exposed by making narrow windrows with the haybine is a swampy mess. So now I'm wondering if I ted in the morning anyway or let it sit another day so the ground can dry out. Either way it turned out to be a bad decision to mow yesterday, but what can you do? Now I'm just hoping we get enough good weather this week that I can bale what's down without having to add it to the muck heap.

And I will probably end up tedding at least three times, and who knows maybe even twice in one day. The fluffier I can get it the faster it will dry. Then again I'm not talking about 40+ acres...


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I decided to let it lay for the day, and if the ground dries out well enough I'll ted tonight or first thing in the morning.


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## tmac196 (Aug 26, 2014)

ARD Farm said:


> I've pulled my wide/thin kit on my NH discbine entirely for this year and I'll ted it too....if I ever get it cut that is....
> 
> Crops are terrible here. beans are shot and weeds are supreme.


Mosquitos, too....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

tmac196 said:


> Mosquitos, too....


You ain't lying


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Three times tedding is about average here in NWVa if you fertilized and are trying to make premium hay. Just won't dry otherwise. We have a lot of small fields and I am doing small squares so it is time intensive anyway. Have to ted to do decent ("not cow hay") rounds as well. my record I think was 7 times tedding one patch about 4-5 years ago that got two rains on it. Still made ok hay, I fed it and the boarder horses ate it and no one got sick or died or left out of disgust.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Hayman1 said:


> ...my record I think was 7 times tedding one patch about 4-5 years ago that got two rains on it. Still made ok hay, I fed it and the boarder horses ate it and no one got sick or died or left out of disgust.


That's where I am now. I mowed a pasture that I shouldn't have, because the ground was too wet. I tedded at day two because it was thin anyway and figured the ground would dry along with the hay.

So here I am 3 days later, the top half of the field has mostly dried out, but the bottom half has not. So much for the tiling in that part of the field. So maybe it will eventually be OK, but I'm thinking not. Clearly this is a field that needs a long time to dry out before mowing next time.

And of course, I cut a few more acres last night with a heavy dew on the grass, came home mid day and ran the Tedder around and the ground was dry. Now the forecast has changed with 50% chance of rain in the morning. And here I thought I had four goods days in a row. I am hoping the rain misses me!


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Lawrd how I cringe when I read "Cow Hay". I should be immune to it by now. The thought of all those yard arts eating premo hay in order to make piles of Yard Art. All the while breading, food producing criiters are eating the leftovers! A reflection of society I suppose. Thank you for your time.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Nitram said:


> Lawrd how I cringe when I read "Cow Hay". I should be immune to it by now. The thought of all those yard arts eating premo hay in order to make piles of Yard Art. All the while breading, food producing criiters are eating the leftovers! A reflection of society I suppose. Thank you for your time.


More like a reflection of their digestive structures.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

So in my experimenting with the best windrows width to make for my new tedder to spread the hay the best I've settled on is as wide as a windrow as I can make. Which is about 7-8 feet. Keep in mind my swather is 15'3" wide. The tedder is a 6 basket with a reach of about 24 feet. I made several narrow windrows of about 3 feet wide to test out the theory that narrow is better. For me it is not better. The best way I've found is to go down the middle of 2 7-8 foot wide windrows. This enables 3 rotors to ted one windrow. 2 do most of the work in the windrow and spreads it nicely. I tried tedding 2 narrow windrows this way and only 2 rotors were tedding a windrow and my middle two rotors really did nothing and it wasn't as even and I basically just had 2 fluffed windrows. Now I also tried straddling a windrow wide or narrow, but then the out side rotors would reach some of the next, but then on the next round either narrow or wide it would leave some like Mlappin says happens with him. Now maybe an 8 rotor tedder would enable me to straddle one and get more of the next windrows to make it work, but I would still be going around the field the same amount of times as with my 6 rotor one. I can see how a swath width of 9-12 would work better with a 6 rotor and I could cut 12 feet, but that would just be silly and would result in uneven windrows.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Teslan said:


> So in my experimenting with the best windrows width to make for my new tedder to spread the hay the best I've settled on is as wide as a windrow as I can make. Which is about 7-8 feet. Keep in mind my swather is 15'3" wide. The tedder is a 6 basket with a reach of about 24 feet. I made several narrow windrows of about 3 feet wide to test out the theory that narrow is better. For me it is not better. The best way I've found is to go down the middle of 2 7-8 foot wide windrows. This enables 3 rotors to ted one windrow. 2 do most of the work in the windrow and spreads it nicely. I tried tedding 2 narrow windrows this way and only 2 rotors were tedding a windrow and my middle two rotors really did nothing and it wasn't as even and I basically just had 2 fluffed windrows. Now I also tried straddling a windrow wide or narrow, but then the out side rotors would reach some of the next, but then on the next round either narrow or wide it would leave some like Mlappin says happens with him. Now maybe an 8 rotor tedder would enable me to straddle one and get more of the next windrows to make it work, but I would still be going around the field the same amount of times as with my 6 rotor one. I can see how a swath width of 9-12 would work better with a 6 rotor and I could cut 12 feet, but that would just be silly and would result in uneven windrows.


I'm new to using a tedder, but after experimenting like you have been doing it's looking to me like it doesn't really matter - the tedder spreads the hay out fairly evenly even when going across windrows. I'm using a 2-rotor and a 7' Haybine (I have small fields with weird shapes so small equipment works out well), and I can pretty much cover two windrows on the first pass. However, if I run the tedder with one rotor centered on the windrow, the edge of the other rotor just grabs the center of the next. By overlapping this way I make a few extra passes, but the hay fluffs up evenly and looks like a shag carpet on the field.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Teslan said:


> So in my experimenting with the best windrows width to make for my new tedder to spread the hay the best I've settled on is as wide as a windrow as I can make. Which is about 7-8 feet. Keep in mind my swather is 15'3" wide. The tedder is a 6 basket with a reach of about 24 feet. I made several narrow windrows of about 3 feet wide to test out the theory that narrow is better. For me it is not better. The best way I've found is to go down the middle of 2 7-8 foot wide windrows. This enables 3 rotors to ted one windrow. 2 do most of the work in the windrow and spreads it nicely. I tried tedding 2 narrow windrows this way and only 2 rotors were tedding a windrow and my middle two rotors really did nothing and it wasn't as even and I basically just had 2 fluffed windrows. Now I also tried straddling a windrow wide or narrow, but then the out side rotors would reach some of the next, but then on the next round either narrow or wide it would leave some like Mlappin says happens with him. Now maybe an 8 rotor tedder would enable me to straddle one and get more of the next windrows to make it work, but I would still be going around the field the same amount of times as with my 6 rotor one. I can see how a swath width of 9-12 would work better with a 6 rotor and I could cut 12 feet, but that would just be silly and would result in uneven windrows.


Once again the dilemma of imperfectly matched mowers and tedders. You can do a great job with narrow swaths if your rotors are aligned perfectly with them. Otherwise, not so much.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Teslan said:


> Now I also tried straddling a windrow wide or narrow, but then the out side rotors would reach some of the next, but then on the next round either narrow or wide it would leave some like Mlappin says happens with him.


I have grabbed into the adjacent windrow, intentionally, on occasion. With my setup, I am normally running my tractor tires over the two windrows I am tedding, which kind of mashes the hay into the ground. I'm not crazy about this, but I usually use my JD 4710 compact tractor for tedding, so it isn't as much of a problem as one might imagine.

If the ground is real wet, I will straddle the center windrow to avoid mashing the hay into the ground. This causes me to pick up 1/2 the windrow on the right, the center windrow and 1/2 the windrow on the left. Some of hay gets flipped twice, but que sera, sera.

Ralph

"Life is a compromise"


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

I never have worried about running the tractor on the hay, and the tedder has always done a good job in spite of running on the hay!

Of course, you will be running on the hay the next time over, anyway, as once tedded, the hay covers 100% of the ground!


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Shetland Sheepdog said:


> I never have worried about running the tractor on the hay, and the tedder has always done a good job in spite of running on the hay!
> Of course, you will be running on the hay the next time over, anyway, as once tedded, the hay covers 100% of the ground!


Yes where I run over the hay with the tractor it appears the Tedder is still picking it all up.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Nitram said:


> Lawrd how I cringe when I read "Cow Hay". I should be immune to it by now. The thought of all those yard arts eating premo hay in order to make piles of Yard Art. All the while breading, food producing criiters are eating the leftovers! A reflection of society I suppose. Thank you for your time.


Oh, I hear ya...

We strive to make the best hay we can, feeding our own beef cows... and I don't generally like horsey people for the very reasons you mentioned... they are THE flightiest, nuttiest people I've ever met, frankly...

The simple fact is that cattle, being ruminant animals, can derive much more nutrition from even poor hay than horses, which are non-ruminants, can. Part of the reason that horses need better feed than the average cow does...

Later! OL JR


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## Jharn57600 (Dec 23, 2013)

I Ted following with a 4 basket Vermeer following a 13 ft mower. Almost always like to leave as wide a windrow as possible. (Not dealing with saturated ground). Take a row and a half with the tedder. Just barely gets everything tedded. One wheel track in the middle of the windrow. I don't like to drive down the edges of the windrows. I like to lay it wide and give it a day to dry and Ted the second day. This makes less green lumps that air doesn't circulate through. In rye this spring a field that was mowed last and waited an extra day to Ted dried before the fields that were tedded the same day as mowing. Grass is different and can depend on the maturity of the grass. 
By the way a 2 basket tedder matches up perfectly to almost any width mower conditioner as long as it doesn't drop a super wide windrow. And you can cover some reasonable acreage the first tedding following a 13 or 15 ft mower. Later passes when your only covering 9ft are painfully slow.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Have you ever tightened windrows and covered 2 with your 4 basket vermeer? I am wondering how it would do in 2 from my 12 ft machine. Never more than 4 maybe 5 ft windrows.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> 3 times tedding? Is that normal for you? I wouldn't be able to do anything else if I had to ted 3 times


I've had to ted hay here everyday for a week to get it dry towards the last cutting if it goes much past the middle of September.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Has anyone tried a tedder on alfalfa? I could see massive leaf shatter if not timed right, here anyway. Teslan, are you going to try it?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> So in my experimenting with the best windrows width to make for my new tedder to spread the hay the best I've settled on is as wide as a windrow as I can make. Which is about 7-8 feet. Keep in mind my swather is 15'3" wide. The tedder is a 6 basket with a reach of about 24 feet. I made several narrow windrows of about 3 feet wide to test out the theory that narrow is better. For me it is not better. The best way I've found is to go down the middle of 2 7-8 foot wide windrows. This enables 3 rotors to ted one windrow. 2 do most of the work in the windrow and spreads it nicely. I tried tedding 2 narrow windrows this way and only 2 rotors were tedding a windrow and my middle two rotors really did nothing and it wasn't as even and I basically just had 2 fluffed windrows. Now I also tried straddling a windrow wide or narrow, but then the out side rotors would reach some of the next, but then on the next round either narrow or wide it would leave some like Mlappin says happens with him. Now maybe an 8 rotor tedder would enable me to straddle one and get more of the next windrows to make it work, but I would still be going around the field the same amount of times as with my 6 rotor one. I can see how a swath width of 9-12 would work better with a 6 rotor and I could cut 12 feet, but that would just be silly and would result in uneven windrows.


If I was crazy enough to decide to expand the hay business here in the monsoon prone part of Indiana, I'd buy a Krone that I could ted three rows at a time with. I'd be covering almost 40' with one of those, wouldn't be so time consuming then when it had to be tedded over and over and over again.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Lostin55 said:


> Has anyone tried a tedder on alfalfa? I could see massive leaf shatter if not timed right, here anyway. Teslan, are you going to try it?


I ted all my alfalfa, it has to be done immediately after mowing or first thing in the morning the next day while it still has enough dew on the leaves to hold em. Towards the end of the season I've tedded alfalfa/OG mix everyday for 5-6 days to get it to dry, some of the highest selling stuff as the sun ain't strong enough to overly bleach it out.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Funny how locale is everything in haymaking.....here, under our "normal conditions" I do not ted my hay until the day that I bale it.....I ted just as the dew is leaving the hay in the morning of baling. Our heat and normally dry ground will dry the understory of the windrow about half way without tedding. Then when I ted it will dry quickly and completely and I will start baling in grass about 1-2pm....in alfalfa about 1-2pm with preservative....without preservative about 4pm.

The reason why I ted and bale this way is that I have excellent color retention when I do not let the understory bleach from being tedded out early and left days to dry. It is a real difference maker in sales.

This is a wonderful benefit in living in a hot part of the country.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Funny how locale is everything in haymaking.....here, under our "normal conditions" I do not ted my hay until the day that I bale it.....I ted just as the dew is leaving the hay in the morning of baling. Our heat and normally dry ground will dry the understory of the windrow about half way without tedding. Then when I ted it will dry quickly and completely and I will start baling in grass about 1-2pm....in alfalfa about 1-2pm with preservative....without preservative about 4pm.
> 
> The reason why I ted and bale this way is that I have excellent color retention when I do not let the understory bleach from being tedded out early and left days to dry. It is a real difference maker in sales.
> 
> ...


Hot and humid part of the country to be baling alfalfa from 1-2 or 4 pm. I was able to bale heavy grass hay yesterday after 2 days cut. Cut in the morning and tedded in the afternoon. I had missed a windrow during my tedding so I raked it yesterday. Still wasn't dry enough by the end of the day and it was only one windrow not two put together. The rest was maybe to dry.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Our issue here is seldom leaf shatter....unlike the bone dry West.....the real issue is getting it dry enough to bale. I have had leaf shatter problems only 3-4 times ever....and then I just waited until about 6 and the evening humidity would begin climbing again.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> Our issue here is seldom leaf shatter....unlike the bone dry West.....the real issue is getting it dry enough to bale. I have had leaf shatter problems only 3-4 times ever....and then I just waited until about 6 and the evening humidity would begin climbing again.
> 
> Regards, Mike


So different. I've had to just wait 2-3 days before having enough dew to bale alfalfa without leaf shatter. Though recently I think I experienced something close. Alfalfa was dry during the day. So I though I'll go try and bale after sundown. Sopping wet due to the extra high humidity and damp soil.


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## Jharn57600 (Dec 23, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> Have you ever tightened windrows and covered 2 with your 4 basket vermeer? I am wondering how it would do in 2 from my 12 ft machine. Never more than 4 maybe 5 ft windrows.


 No I haven't done that. With the 13 ft I'd have to be down to 4 ft windrows to be sure to turn 2 with the tedder. A narrow windrow off center from the pair of rotors probably wouldn't spread as nicely. Especially wet green hay.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Vol said:


> Our issue here is seldom leaf shatter....unlike the bone dry West.....the real issue is getting it dry enough to bale. I have had leaf shatter problems only 3-4 times ever....and then I just waited until about 6 and the evening humidity would begin climbing again.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Again location is everything, if mine gets to dry and you wait till evening, it will go from perfect to getting a little tough in a few rounds, from there it goes to forget it even faster. When our dew sets, it sets fast. Usually have to wait till the next morning as the dew leaves to bale hay that got to dry, not that its been a real problem the last three years.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Teslan said:


> So different. I've had to just wait 2-3 days before having enough dew to bale alfalfa without leaf shatter. Though recently I think I experienced something close. Alfalfa was dry during the day. So I though I'll go try and bale after sundown. Sopping wet due to the extra high humidity and damp soil.


Thats something that's just considered normal here, dew starts to set and forget it.

Last time I had problems with hay getting too dry was 2012.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Last night the dew started setting about midnight and it stayed perfect for a couple of hours. The day before it set to heavy in about 30 minutes. 
OTOH, catching the dew going off hasnt been easy either. The times have varied by several hours in the mornings.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Mike you reminded me again that not every hay country is the same.
While in the Air Force I had a friend from Hancock County, TN. Mostly in East TN & up against the VA State line.
There drying conditions were so poor that they dried most of their hay in a drying barn.
After getting out I attended a Hay Conference in PA & a dairy we visited had a hay barn where they could dry the baled hay, still on the wagons, in the barn.

What I neglect to emphasize is what works well here may not be appropriate elsewhere.

At one time I used a 4 basket tedder and would use the Fence Clearing function to push the hay from two windrows into a wide swath.
Later I bought a Rake Tedder from NH and I could rake with one basket and ted with the other basket. The next operation would push the half and half windrow swath into one windrow to bale from.

Then I found a presentation for a Virginia Hay Conference, that was produced by West Virginia. It had a lot of great information, that said:
With a 90% humidity the hay will be no less than 40% moisture.
With a 70% humidity the hay will be no less than 18% moisture.
With a 65% humidity the hay will be no less than 16% moisture.
This works like a champ HERE with our climate.
One day that Link came up blank. I wrote WV and asked where their information is now. Well it is still found at their WV library.

A key is hay does not cure uniformly. First and fastest is the leaves cure, then the stems cure.
To night the leaves may be 10% moisture and the stems can still be damp. Works for raking. For baling we want the Stems to be dry, maybe 10% moisture. Later, After an all night soaking in the dew, the leaves can be wet with the night dew and the stems maybe 10% moisture. But as the air dries to 70% humidity the leaves can be 30% moisture and the stems still at 10% moisture. We are good to bale. Works HERE.
See Forage Management's Proper Handling and Curing of Hay from West Virginia, 2002. +

Now Dan Undersander at Wisconsin has numerous presentations telling of the advantages of a wide drying swath. The best his information I have read, was given at a Utah Hay Conference. That is gone from the Utah Library but the same information is scattered through many of his other presentations.

What I was able to do was take a print of his graphs and tables. Then with a copy machine enlarge these charts and graphs to what my eyes can work with.
I believe his best graph is a rendition of a graph printed by Cornell University. Buy their NRAES-6 Silage and Hay Preservation. Department of Agriculture and Biological Engineering. NRAES 152 Riley-Robb Hall, Cooperative Extension. Ithaca, NY 14853-5701


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

hay wilson in TX said:


> Then I found a presentation for a Virginia Hay Conference, that was produced by West Virginia. It had a lot of great information, that said:
> With a 90% humidity the hay will be no less than 40% moisture.
> With a 70% humidity the hay will be no less than 18% moisture.
> With a 65% humidity the hay will be no less than 16% moisture.
> ...


That's my experience--I run typically 60-70% low humidity--seldom get hay below 18%.

I ted alfalfa 12 hours after mowing; grass 24 hours after. I only ted once, assuming I get a pretty even spread. I mow tall so that the cut hay has a good stubble to lay on.

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> Have you ever tightened windrows and covered 2 with your 4 basket vermeer? I am wondering how it would do in 2 from my 12 ft machine. Never more than 4 maybe 5 ft windrows.


Yes, I do it all the time(2 windrows/4 rotor tedder)....and it will ted out fine....especially if you will let it dry some.....it will fan out nicely.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Vol said:


> Yes, I do it all the time(2 windrows/4 rotor tedder)....and it will ted out fine....especially if you will let it dry some.....it will fan out nicely.
> 
> Regards, Mike


What is your cut width?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

My cut width is right at 10 feet, but my windrow width is maximum....not sure exactly but I think the windrow is a little over 7 feet. Flail disc mower. I will mow some this week and will measure exactly the windrow width.

Regards, Mike


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a 1409NH and have it spread as much as it will. Cut width I believe is 9-3. Handle 2 swaths with krone 17' tedder with ease.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I've cut some hay for neighbors with a 12.5' machine and left about a 5' swath. It was everything they could do to get both on flat ground and anywhere there was drift (out of the back of the mower or with their tedder) they came up a little short.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

I had raked the field and left it alone for the ground to dry out. I tedded yesterday morning, raked and baled in the afternoon. Three bales I know are bad, the rest seem ok. The bale meter was reading 16-21%, and as it reads 3-5% higher in straight grass hay I think I'm good. One of the horses was pulling mouthfulls of hay from the wagon instead of eating the grass/alfalfa mix from last year that had just been dropped over the gate. So it's horse approved.


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