# Conditioning - Is It All About The Stems?????



## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

I gather that leaves, be it on legumes or grass hay - don't necessarily benefit from conditioning? I've read many posts online that suggest for grass hay, since it's all leaf - no need to condition on 2nd, 3rd cuts. Legumes need conditioning for every cut just because a stem comes along for the ride?

Sooooo - is the goal to condition the stem, regardless of legume or grass such that the stem dries at a rate where it and the leaf wind up at similar moisture content prior to baling? The leaf/grass blade dries OK regardless?

When I set the rubber on steel rollers on my Hesston mower conditioner, there is a lot of room between the lobes as they intermesh - lobe side to lobe side. Peak to valley, they are very close, 1/16 to 1/18 inch from making contact. I ran the Hesston through some orchard grass while setting the roller gap and timing - and when finished, these rollers did a terrific job IMHO at crimping the stem every few inches. It is impressive - almost like picking up a limp piece of string.

However, aside from some bruising, which I attribute to a blade of grass being smashed as the shear volume of hay goes through the rollers, as pretty much unharmed - unconditioned.

If the goal is to only condition the stem - these Hesston rollers strike me as a pretty good design. I'm 99.9% sure the New Holland rubber on rubber rollers are as good or better, but never used one.

So the goal of conditioning - all about the stem?

Thanks!
Bill


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Purty much......


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Well I agree it is a lot about the stems but I also like the way the conditioner leaves the hay standing up as long as you have any volume. I always spread mine as much as possible so that the shield is forcing the hay straight down. Lots of air gets in it that way. Obviously the lower volume of second or third cutting does this to a lesser extent and light hay does not do it at all.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

It's my understanding that the purpose of conditioning is to crack the stems open to allow moisture to escape more readily. Since grasses have a flatter leaf, they don't benefit as much as alfalfa. But I do believe that conditioning helps the lowest 2" of grass dry faster. And the lower 2" or so is usually moister than the higher parts.

My thinking: Ever chew a piece of grass? The bottom stem is sweeter, moister, while the top part ain't so good.

Ralph


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

So the reason I ask questions like this - is on our hay odyssey, I want to know everything there is to know about what we are doing - even conditioning hay, down to the type of roller/flail - LOL!

IMHO - the price for a mower conditioner demands a home run once the check is written. It would be a disaster to come home with a spankin' new mower conditioner and find it comes up short in one aspect or another.

I believe just about every manufacturer of mower conditioners have a variety of roller/flail conditioner designs, especially JD and MF. Thing is - VERY little info/guidance is imparted via their brochures or manuals as to the best choice, IMHO. Lot of $$$$'s for their machine, very little detailed info on why one would want or differentiate between their conditioner rollers for your particular need. Contrast that to Super C who's web site is flooded with info regarding their rollers.

From their website, I think I understand the concept of the Super C rollers for crushing the stem - but in grass hay, like timothy, I gather it takes a very high pressure to crush the stems across the rollers - more pressure than perhaps any stock mower conditioner can apply with their springs, etc., so the need for Super C's airbag system to go along with their rollers is necessary sometimes beyond what the mower conditioner manufacturer can offer. If so much pressure is required, I question if crushing rollers like Deere's tri-lobe or MF/Hesston's milled shallow depth intermesh rubber rollers will get it done in grass hay like timothy.

Just as there is concern that flails may not be the ideal choice for legumes due to potential leaf loss, I'm thinking for grass hay, OEM crushing rollers may not deliver the mail for stemmy grass hay like timothy.

So what to do? You got alfalfa and grass hay and a budget. What is the EFFECTIVE middle ground in hay conditioning?

Subject to changing my mind - like the weather.....

I'm thinking a crimping roller is the way to go. They deal with the stem, leave the leaf generally unharmed and are suitable for grass or legume hay. May not dry down hay as quickly as Super C rollers, but affordable and still effective. BTW - crimping vs crushing pressures - I should think crimping is a walk in the park on any mower conditioner.

Next up is durability. Still reading / learning about these - as I get up to speed, I'm really liking the potential durability of steel on steed crimping rolls. I really like the New Holland rubber on rubber rollers, but have seen many for sale that are missing chunks of rubber. Same with JD's urethane rollers.

So I find myself looking at the really nice crimping/conditioning with little if any leaf damage by my old Hesston rubber on steel rollers (which IMHO mimic the profiles and intermesh spacing of steel rollers) and I start to think.....

Is it possible that the most versatile and durable crimping OEM conditioning rolls for grass and legumes are the deep lobed steel on steel rolls?

I'd like to see one in action before buying.

Just some thoughts while we are waiting on the rain to stop for a hay making window.....

Bill


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I've found that grasses dry so much more easily than alfalfa that I am inclined to say that if you do both, pick a conditioner that will perform well in alfalfa and you will be satisfied with its performance in grass. Some of the benefit of roller conditioning grass is merely the fact that the swath won't lay as flat on the dirt as it will if its unconditioned.

It seems that the best conditioner for alfalfa is some kind of rubber on rubber system with zero clearance between the rollers. I used to think that New Holland's chevron rubber rolls were adequate, but I think otherwise now, even when run with the rolls touching.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

leeave96 said:


> IMHO - the price for a mower conditioner demands a home run once the check is written. It would be a disaster to come home with a spankin' new mower conditioner and find it comes up short in one aspect or another.
> 
> I believe just about every manufacturer of mower conditioners have a variety of roller/flail conditioner designs, especially JD and MF. Thing is - VERY little info/guidance is imparted via their brochures or manuals as to the best choice, IMHO. Lot of $$$$'s for their machine, very little detailed info on why one would want or differentiate between their conditioner rollers for your particular need. Contrast that to Super C who's web site is flooded with info regarding their rollers.
> 
> ...


Bill, my understanding is this: grass has a 'wax' on it's surface that flails help remove or scuff up to allow faster moisture loss (we think of dry down/curing), than if you just crushed the grass stem. Therefore faster curing with flails is possible.

Alfalfa, needs to have it's stems broken or crushed to allow faster moisture loss. Hence, the different machines. With an alfalfa / grass mixture I would lean towards the rollers (crushing) verses flails, even though used flail machines are usually cheaper to buy in my area.

The reasoning be, grasses seam to dry/cure faster than alfalfa in my area, so the crushed grass still cures faster than the alfalfa, so I use a roll machine in MY area. Your area could be completely different.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> It seems that the best conditioner for alfalfa is some kind of rubber on rubber system with zero clearance between the rollers. I used to think that New Holland's chevron rubber rolls were adequate, but I think otherwise now, even when run with the rolls touching.


It is my understanding that conditioning rollers should not be touching...you might want to pose this question to Progressive Farmer's "Ask the Mechanic".


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

vhaby said:


> It is my understanding that conditioning rollers should not be touching...you might want to pose this question to Progressive Farmer's "Ask the Mechanic".


I am not an expert on conditioning rolls. I have worked with a set of Circle C recaps installed in in a New Holland 489, and Circle C specifically said to run the rolls touching, with the original New Holland stops completely removed. My brother has a NH HW320, and he has removed shims on the roll stops until there is some contact of rolls. Because New Hollands rolls are not as precisely dimensioned as Circle C's it is not advisable to remove the stops completely.


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