# Round Bale Size



## Tim/South

This will probably matter only to those who sell hay by the bale, not ton.

Is a 4 x 5 bale supposed to be 4 x 5 ?
Should a customer expect the bale to be as close as possible to the numbers being advertised?
Should bale density be taken into consideration?

Just curious.


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## urednecku

Are you selling by the bale..or by the pound/ton? If I go to buy a 4X5 bale, I would want it to be 4X5, not 4X4. There's a lot of hay in that outside 6 inches.
4X5 = 78.5 cubic feet.
4X4-1/2 = 63.6 cubic feet.
( IF I figured that right. )
That figures to almost another 25%.

Yes, density makes a big difference, too... to some people that bother to pay attention.


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## Waterway64

If your selling your hay, state laws regulating transportation should be considered. Buyers may not be equiped to handle full size bales and that is a consideration. And last what are you equiped to handle best? Hay density and weight varies with maturity and cutting so bale weights will never be consistant to sell by the bale without some weighing. Also no matter how hard you try the bales will vary 2 to 4 inchs in diameter. This is probably a operator thing at least for me..... Mel


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## Hand&Hand Farms

Most 4x5 bales will run from 57 to 60 inches. We try for 59 because overfill alarm factory preset at 61. Most will never be 60 inches consistent. Too many varibles. If I were buying a 4x5 I would want a 4x5 and we do our best to get there. We got a new baler this year and had to wait for the set up guy to leave so we could get to a 59 inch bale. He wanted us to do a 52, I guess warranty issues. I bought a 4x5 and thats what I want to bale.


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## urednecku

hay&litter said:


> Most 4x5 bales will run from 57 to 60 inches. We try for 59 because overfill alarm factory preset at 61. Most will never be 60 inches consistent. Too many varibles. If I were buying a 4x5 I would want a 4x5 and we do our best to get there. We got a new baler this year and had to wait for the set up guy to leave so we could get to a 59 inch bale. He wanted us to do a 52, I guess warranty issues. I bought a 4x5 and thats what I want to bale.


Think I'd have told him "it's a 4X5 baler, & if it won't do a 4X5 bale take it back to town with you."


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## OhioHay

If it was like my BR7060, you were supposed to make 52" for the first 50 bales to break the baler in. Kinda like breaking in an engine. After that, then you could make the size you want. We make a 4x4.5 and tell people that is a 4x4.5. If somebody told me I was buying 4x5's, I would want 4x5's. On a separate note, we can sell 4x4.5 for the same price as a 4x5 due to easier to roll around by horse customers who don't have a loader.


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## Texasmark

Couple of things here.

Used to be around here a 5x6 was the norm with the honest guys doing a full sized, tight bale. Some guys only gave you a 5x5 and others would run down the windrow real fast with a light tensioner setting and you got a light bale.

Hay is sold by the bale here as it is too much trouble for buyer and seller to fool with the nearest scales 15 miles away when they are open.

I measured a couple of JD balers (530 and 375) both doing a 5' wide bale and the bales were like 62 x whatever you set the diameter to.

I noticed that 4x5 or 6 depending on which baler you bought are getting real popular around here as hay haulers can load up their 18 wheelers without being oversized. Problem with the size, is that the $100+ per bale price has been applied to them too so as compared to a tight full 5x6 you are getting about half the weight for 4x what you paid a couple of years ago.....but last year with the drought and all, glad to get them.

So I do my own now and don't worry about it....that is when I get the weeds under control and get my hay patch cooperating.

Mark


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## NDVA HAYMAN

I make my 4x5 at 58" and my 5x6 at 68". I sell by the ton. Mike


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## RockmartGA

urednecku said:


> Are you selling by the bale..or by the pound/ton? If I go to buy a 4X5 bale, I would want it to be 4X5, not 4X4. There's a lot of hay in that outside 6 inches.
> 4X5 = 78.5 cubic feet.
> 4X4-1/2 = 63.6 cubic feet.
> ( IF I figured that right. )
> That figures to almost another 25%.
> 
> Yes, density makes a big difference, too... to some people that bother to pay attention.


You figured it correctly. I was bored and calculated all that stuff as well as compared to a square bale (14*16*38).

*Size.....Feet[sup]3[/sup].....# of squares *
4x4.....50.27.....10.20
4x5.....78.54.....15.94
4x6.....113.10....22.96
5x5.....98.17.....19.93
5x6.....141.37....28.70
6x6.....169.65....34.44

As illustrated above, a 4x5 bale is 56% larger than a 4x4. Makes a big difference


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## CockrellHillFarms

Thats pretty close to accurate for myself. I've done the math and figure that with my 567 5x6 that I have 30 sq. bales in one round bale. That has proven to be pretty close to accurate. If even run them side by side in the same field for comparison. It works out pretty close considering there are a few variables. This brings me to my next point. Why do ppl still want small square bales? Do the math it doesnt make sense but yet I will have 12k-13k in the barn and they will be gone by december! haha.

5x6 rnd bale 1800 lbs $50 bucks
60lbs x 30 sq bales= 1800 lbs

14x16 (60 lb bale) $4.25 x30 $127.50 for the same amount of hay! You could afford a tractor pretty quickly if you didnt have one at that rate. That's almost a 3:1 savings. But PLEASE PLEASE. Dont explain that to my sq. bale customers!!!!! haha.


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## urednecku

CockrellHillFarms said:


> But PLEASE PLEASE. Dont explain that to my sq. bale customers!!!!! haha.


It was my round bale customer that explained that to me! He's feeding dairy calves, says he's gotta tote it by hand to them & the round bales are a PITA for them. Had one of his best hands quit because of having to handle round bales.
THAT is why I just bought a square baler--yesterday.


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## CockrellHillFarms

My god. Are people that dumb? Handling a round bale is too hard? Are they rolling them or putting them out of a tractor? Geeezzz.....ppl these days......


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## urednecku

He's feeding a bunch of small calves, (well over 1,000 head) apperantly in seperate pens. And for some reason has to carry hay in by hand.
HAY, it works for me, all the way to the bank!

Quick update....rolled out a big round & started in it...it'll make 2 or 3 bales, then cut or break the string about an inch or 2 from the knot on a couple. Guess it still needs more rust wore off, and looking at the manual I'm on the way out to clean the knotters, & see if I can find a rough place that's cutting it.


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## Texasmark

Agree, convenience and loss could play into that too. A round really needs to be fed to a lot of hungry cows, especially sudan/sorghum fast to preserve the freshness and quality. Other thing is squares are kept indoors and rounds usually outdoors and there is some loss in that.

Problem I personally have with squares, and reason I sold my baler was that my operation is too small for automated equipment and I can't get any help to get the bales up once baled. I can't do that anymore.

Mark


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## remedy

I've just read thru this blog on size of bales and lied the fact that most of you still have morals and values and when you say a bale is 4x5 it is................and then there are those of you who wish to cheat his fellow man by making them smaller......... I don't like liars and cheats.........we all know prices are high......but give us what we pay for!! everyone knows that buying by the ton is the only way to keep a man honest.........but sometimes we have to take their word..........is your word good? This tells the kinda person one really is.


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## Texasmark

remedy said:


> I've just read thru this blog on size of bales and lied the fact that most of you still have morals and values and when you say a bale is 4x5 it is................and then there are those of you who wish to cheat his fellow man by making them smaller......... I don't like liars and cheats.........we all know prices are high......but give us what we pay for!! everyone knows that buying by the ton is the only way to keep a man honest.........but sometimes we have to take their word..........is your word good? This tells the kinda person one really is.


Yeah but there are some, the local whiners, that say "well I gotta make a living". Then there are dealings with the unknowing consumer that just saw a bale of hay and paid x for it not knowing what he was getting and how much of what he was getting. Some of the stuff that gets baled around here is pure crap; no fertilization, full of weeds, well over maturity, "but I gotta make a living" when challenged. And then there are two prices. One for the horse folks in town and one for the locals. Realizing that time and trucking are involved in the ones going to town, but 3x the price....but that's none of my business; I live in the country.

My 2c,

Mark


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## remedy

I understand what you are saying, and I am very much aware of the kind of people that are selling garbage as a viable product..........it is sad that so many people are doing this...... and even if you live in the country it is your business.........it is all our business.........what is America coming too!!!!!

MY 2c, Bret


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## shortrow

remedy......what is the remedy then?? I bale and sell honest. You tell me.......


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## Nitram

Well the solution is in Ag or any other business is that the buyer beware, know what you are buying and if you run into a poor product you speak with your dollars. The dishonest don't last long in any free market. If this doesn't satisfy your anger towards the perp you can use your contacts to get the word out. As for bale size and quality a visual inspection can usually tell you what your getting. I sell and when I buy it is by the ton.


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## Hand&Hand Farms

I got the 5410 making 59 to 60 consistent now. I want the customer to get what they pay for. It was a simple process just new to us. Never realized just how nice net wrap could be, 8 to 10 seconds to wrap, just amazing. I agree more money to made it square bales but don't have enough time to do all square or the customer base.


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## rjmoses

I make my round bales at 56", 60" and 66" by 5' depending on hay quality and expected sales. I weigh a sample of 7 bales to get an average weight. Then I sell "by the ton" or "by the bale" where it works out to be the same dollars for tons or bales.

Smart customers buy by the ton, un-smart customers buy by the bale. But it doesn't make any difference to me--I still get the same $/acre.

Ralph


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## somedevildawg

I would rather sell mine hay as a 4 x 4 if I could for 40.00. Everyone round here buys a bale of hay for 50 dollars or less.....I'm at $70 for a 4x5 at 890 #, still have some for that reason. With nitrogen where it's at, potash where it's at, fossil fuels where they are at, equipment costs where they are at, you cannot afford to sell a 890#roll for $50....I have that much in the bale out of pocket! The thing about hay that most buyers don't understand, especially horsey buyers, is that all hay is not created equal. It may look similar, may have very few weeds, big bales, but little protein. You ain't got nothing but a 50$ ball of dead grass...eg. Baled a mans field for him last year, no real fertilizer, a bit of ammonium nitrate but not much, yield was 50% of what it should have been, petty bales no real amount of weeds, but here's the kicker....the RFQ was 37. My hay consistently tests 125 to 130 om RFQ, but it's hit with 100 lbs of n, minors and potash and irrigated when need be, but to visibly look at the bales or even smell the bales, not much diff between the two. Now would you buy his hay for 50 or mine for 70.........he sold all of his!


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## dubltrubl

somedevildawg said:


> I would rather sell mine hay as a 4 x 4 if I could for 40.00. Everyone round here buys a bale of hay for 50 dollars or less.....I'm at $70 for a 4x5 at 890 #, still have some for that reason. With nitrogen where it's at, potash where it's at, fossil fuels where they are at, equipment costs where they are at, you cannot afford to sell a 890#roll for $50....I have that much in the bale out of pocket! The thing about hay that most buyers don't understand, especially horsey buyers, is that all hay is not created equal. It may look similar, may have very few weeds, big bales, but little protein. You ain't got nothing but a 50$ ball of dead grass...eg. Baled a mans field for him last year, no real fertilizer, a bit of ammonium nitrate but not much, yield was 50% of what it should have been, petty bales no real amount of weeds, but here's the kicker....the RFQ was 37. My hay consistently tests 125 to 130 om RFQ, but it's hit with 100 lbs of n, minors and potash and irrigated when need be, but to visibly look at the bales or even smell the bales, not much diff between the two. Now would you buy his hay for 50 or mine for 70.........he sold all of his!


This is exactly what we run into with round bales. Lots of folks look at it and comment, "I can buy 4X5's down the road for $40." We sell a 4X4.5 for $35. Well fertilized, limed, weed free. I give 'em the test results, and I sometime get back a puzzled look from their face???? Like, "why does this matter?" kinda look. At $35, we ain't makin much, so if they don't want to pay for it, I'm not really sure I want their business. Funny thing is, they won't bat an eye at paying $5.50 for a square bale. Same hay just a different package. Just gotta scratch your head sometimes!!!


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## hay wilson in TX

Here the "standard" is the 5 X 6 bale. 
I put up a 5 X 5 for several reasons.
*First off that is as big as my front loader will pick up.*

Then came the rationalization.
Three of my bales will fit on a 16 ft tandem trailer with out heroic tying.
A 5 ft bale will fit in the back of a PU, with out spreading the sides, while there is no way to get a 6 ft diameter bale in a PU.

On the down side.
Figuring $200/hr to run with a Big RBer & the bales per hour are fairly close, it cost more to bale the 5 footer.
The 5 foot bales will use more feet of net wrap to cover 10 tons of hay than the larger bale.
If moving bales with designed for round bales trailers you will move more tons/hour with the larger bales.

Yes 19 or 20 bales = one 5 ft round bale for weight, & 28 to 30 for the larger RBs.

I suspect the amount of DM lost and feed value lost is greater with the smaller diameter round bales.

Baling at 65% relative humidity a square baler will lose 1% DM, while the RB will lose 5%. Baling at 55% RH
the square baler will lose 5% or so DM while the Round Baler can lose 30% of DM.

I will leave that statistic to our academic friends who measure such things. I do know that at 65% RH the Round bales will have 1 % lower CP than the square bales, but at 55% RH the difference is 2 to 3 lower CP, if they use net wrap.
Think about the folks who only use a Round Baler in the field and then rebale squares for the Horse Trade.


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## somedevildawg

I guess it all depends on whether you sell to cattle farms or horsey folks, no doubt the cow folks understand the benefits of high protien forage, not sure that the horsey folks care that much about protien just don't get no weeds in it, and if you could bale it at about 23%moisture, and do the bales at 55lbs no more than 59lbs, would prefer sisal twine from brazil (yellow if you can) and just load it in he barn....... Too many damn choices, I'm baling 70# small squares take it or leave it, you want it stacked....extra. Big bales are going to go down to just as small as I can get the br7060 to bale....if they buy by the bale, just have to adapt. At the end of the day if you don't get 160$ a ton you won't be making hay long regardless of weather, or bale size....equipment costs money and it dont last forever.....wish I had a dollar for all the people who say "I was buying hay from ole Johnny but he sold all his equipment (or repoed)". Reckon why he couldn't pay his bills selling hay for 45$ @900lb rolls.


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## swmnhay

*I make a few smaller bales for the horsey people that can't handle full sized bale.Baler has a scale so just watch it to get a certain wt bale.I still figure it back to the ton price to get a per bale price.*

*Most around here with small,soft under packed bales want to sell by the bale.Then when horsey lady calls me and i want more per bale they think I'm to high but can't get it threw their head that there is more hay in the bale.Jeeeze*


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## Tim/South

swmnhay said:


> *Then when horsey lady calls me and i want more per bale they think I'm to high but can't get it threw their head that there is more hay in the bale.Jeeeze*


I believe this is the issue where ever hay is sold by the bale.Someone making a dense, full size bale is having to compete with those who do not.


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## somedevildawg

I may do the same on the small squares only if requested tho, small squares will not run through bale bandit, have to make a small 45-50 lb bale and touch it a few times....same price, 15% less hay, but if that's what they want, might as well make it even if I don't like it......cow folks that want the squares would just as soon have 80 lb bales....btw, the reason people want the squares is directly associated with the cost of hay. Virtually no waste, and the ability to monitor the intake, that's why a lot of people are using small squares. Makes sense if you are not lazy. If you are.... better keep buying those rounds...a lot easier


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## beautancushayfarmer

I am in my second year of growing coastal hay in nc. Reading this thread has got me thinking about the price of my own hay. Most of the people in my area charge by the bale. However, I have thought about charging by the ton. Can anyone tell me what would be a good per ton price for hay in nc? Does the per ton price depend on what part of the state and/or country you are from? As everybody has mentioned, fuel, fertilizer, and equipment prices have risen. Being new to hay farming, any knowledge I can gain from other hay farmers would be a tremendous help!


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## somedevildawg

Grow cotton....here's the deal with hay, do you have livestock to fed? Here is a compilation, off the top of my head, for a 12 ac field in the coastal plain region of the great state of Georgia. These are yearly figures: lime/500.00. herbicide/400.00. Fertilizer/4500.00 possibly insecticide 250.00. Total approx. 5700.00 yearly. Now the field will produce about 4T per acre with really good rainfall. (about 4round rolls). Without rainfall much less. Average about 135 bales yearly. 135 times your selling price (let's say 60$ is about 8k. Now figure in fossil fuels approx 700.00, if you want to figure in equipment costs you can but just for giggles figure routine maintenance, and don't dare add any labor and see what you come up with in the final analysis and you'll see why I said: grow cotton. I had a fellow buy some hay from me the other day that had 150a of hay fields, didn't cut it for hay......said he could buy it cheaper than making it....smart guy


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