# Hay Farmer!



## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

Hello everyone kind of new here so not sure if this is in the right spot or not. Im interested in starting haying for a living im 17 now but start small an get big, but what is the pros an cons? Im thinking alfalfa as the main crop. Im also thinking when i get to the point were i can afford it id do 3ft by 3ft large squares an maybe small ones too. Id just like to here what everyone else does an whats your tips.

Thanks guys


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## TBrown (Nov 27, 2008)

Hey Brandon,

Where are you located? Alot of us have made the same decision you have. There is a lot of knowledge to be learned from the guys here.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Their is money to be made in stacking hay, machine or by hand, if their is a need for it in your area. One piece of equipment helps to keep cost low when starting out...


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

It's seems like you have good mindset going into this. I would say this.

"Build off of what you can do well and don't be afraid to ask someone else for advice"

I like the idea about starting small. I would also say to find a local mentor if you can, having someone nearby whose done something for awhile really helps.

Though you might be tired of school I would definitely look into what the local tech colleges and smaller state schools have to offer--never to old to stop learning. Here in WI we have a lot of "short course" students who come to Madison in Oct and leave by March. They do 1,2, and 3 year programs. You still have a lot of the hay season free over the summer and you'll probably find people like yourself with the same kind goals in mind.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Hey Brandon

Where are you located?

What is your local market or are you planning on shipping,

Customer is always rite.You have to grow what they want in the package they want.

Fire away with any ? there is a great group on here that are more than willing to help out.

Good Luck.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

well im up in northeast PA. Ive been helping out for 2 years now at my buddies farm with hay in the summer, an I also have a friend that him an his dad do this for a living an there living pretty good i must say. Ive always been interested in farming of some sort an hay just seems to bring top dollar if you do it right an take pride in it. My long term goal is to be sitting in a Caseih PUMA or small Caseih magnum with a Caseih LB333 baler on back an a few semis.

what makes the most top dollar hay? Id have to guess alfalfa.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Top dollar hay varies with the area.Alfalfa/orchardgrass is a good hay here and will bring as much and sometimes more than Alfalfa.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

now let me ask this how many acres do you need to hay to make a living out of it? In the winter Im sure i will plow snow to make money an maybe have a few angus cattle to raise an sell. I really dont want to get into corn seems to be a big gamble an with all that machinery it could just kill you.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Brandon C. said:


> now let me ask this how many acres do you need to hay to make a living out of it? In the winter Im sure i will plow snow to make money an maybe have a few angus cattle to raise an sell. I really dont want to get into corn seems to be a big gamble an with all that machinery it could just kill you.


I don't know if there is a answer to that question.There is so many variables.Land cost,eq cost.And what is your hay market,if you can get a premium for small sqrs in your area.To be effitient you have to not over spend on equipment.Keep your costs per ton of production low but still have enough eq to get it put up timely.

Cattle are a good idea to have around.A good way to use oops hay

Good Luck


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

well heres a link sorta tells on the hay market I need to talk to my one buddy who does this for a living to really find out more I think. Im pretty sure all he does is large square bales though 3x3.

This link too. LINK


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

Early on join the Pennsylvania Forage & Grassland Council.

When you get some volume join the National Hay Association.

A good place to start is doing what no one wants to do, & do that well.

The advise to start out hauling hay is a good one. It may be difficult start for your area as the barns are not really designed for mechine stacking, while most Western Barns are open poll barns designed to put hay in and hay out using machinery. While picking up the hay consider how the job was done leading up to your getting your chance. Learn form others errors.

A skill that is sadly wanting is raking. Few put their most skilled operator on the rake thinking it is not important. Good baling is dependent on good raking. I know one custom baler who refuses to bale a field if his wife did not do the raking.

In hay making learn the basic rules that applies to baling hay.

Learn to read weather reports.

When you hire someone try to get someone who knows more than you do, for one and smarter than you for sure.

If you can get some science education and some business education. The science so you can understand the jargon of the PhD's and business to keep things on a finincially sound footing.

Remember this there is a higher markup for retail, but the ultimate high income comes with volume. The first rule is to control expenses. The last rule is to control cost.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

well the one link that i was reading was updated on jan 1 2010 an says top dollar alfalfa is on average $200 per ton well lets say you have a 600lb round bale an do 100 of them this is just hypathetical. well that 60,000lbs of top dollar alfalfa divide that by 2 an you get 30,000tons times that by 200 per ton an you get $6,000,000, now idk if that is right or not can anyone chime in here. An before anyone says it i know there is no way you will pocket that with owning all the equipment an truck an fuel for them plus seed cost an chemicals and ext.

How much does a 3x3 large square bale weight?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Brandon C. said:


> well the one link that i was reading was updated on jan 1 2010 an says top dollar alfalfa is on average $200 per ton well lets say you have a 600lb round bale an do 100 of them this is just hypathetical. well that 60,000lbs of top dollar alfalfa divide that by 2 an you get 30,000tons times that by 200 per ton an you get $6,000,000, now idk if that is right or not can anyone chime in here. An before anyone says it i know there is no way you will pocket that with owning all the equipment an truck an fuel for them plus seed cost an chemicals and ext.
> 
> How much does a 3x3 large square bale weight?


Woaaa you better refigure.A ton is 2000 lbs not 2 lbs.
600 lb X 100 bales = 60,000 divided by 2000 = 30 ton X $200 a ton = $6,000


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## darren (Nov 18, 2009)

I wish!!! Each bale weighs .3 ton. x $200 = $60 per bale. x100 bales = $6000.00


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## Skip3 (Feb 11, 2009)

Damn zero's get me every time I think I'm about to be a millionaire too......


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

Hey Brandon

It is good to see the youthful exuberance displayed in your posts but before you get into the deep end of the pool you need to take some deep breaths and adopt a bit of a business approach to this proposed venture of yours! This is not to dissuade you from the pursuit but more to shift you into a gear the is more a analytical than romantic.

When you look at an operation that appears to be successful you cannot just consider the optics, you have to look at what is happening in the books. Some very successful looking businesses are based on a cash flow process that doesn't leave a lot in the bank account. Not saying that your friend and his dad are this way but just know that that can easily be an outcome in farming of any sort.

Be very sure of your numbers. The income projections that you make will affect your spending decisions and growth projections. On that $6,000,000 revenue projection you might have run out and bought your new puma ... that they would be repossessing at the end of the season or sooner.

First thing you need is education both in agriculture (Hay) and general business. Speak to people who can educate you and perhaps ask a few if they would mentor you. Mentors can give you very valuable information and assist you in forming realistic business plans.

Prepare a business plan with all all of the necessary support information, revenue projections on capacity, capital assets required, payment schedules for assets, buy lease options, input and production costs, risk analysis and costs and a SWOT analysis is also a very important tool to give you a realistic look at what your business might look like and the challenges it could face (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities Threats).
Know you market area. It is not always the crop that has the highest price that you want to grow but the crop that has the highest demand and returns you the greatest margin and suits your area.

These things mentioned are strategic if you are going to go at this in a jump in business sense.

In the alternative you could take a gradual approach and get into it over time. This might mean looking for a niche to exploit. That you would find out by questioning hay producers and/or buyers to find out what they might need and slip into supplying in that niche. It might be a reliable operator, a person to haul hay to clients or a person who buys hay and resells to smaller customers, or someone who has some equipment that can do some custom work. Starting small takes longer but it also minimizes risk.

Which ever you should set yourself up some XL spreadsheets were you can run scenarios for revenues, production, costs of inputs, equipment overheads just so you can play with them and get a quick read as to what you have in mind.

Heed all the information that you receive here, sort it, adapt it to your situation, store it for reference

OK go at it; be exuberant and smatter in some business conservatism

All the best


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

Skip3 said:


> Damn zero's get me every time I think I'm about to be a millionaire too......


I knew I did it wrong. I was at work doing that an im like that cant be write.


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## Byron Seeds (Jul 30, 2008)

Just curious!!! 17 yrs old...... Is that tractor yours? What do you do with it? Any previous personal farm experience??(your own cattle, grain,pigs,farming bills,etc)

I worked for farmers for 10 years, played like it was my own, and then when I got my own, things were different. Wife, kids, more bills that did not involve farming but living.

I had more money in my pocket when I was paid $6 an hour at 16 or 17 years old then I ever had for the next 15 years.

Keep in mind.. Do you still live at home?
Do you have a truck payment?
Is there a woman in your life?
What about family plans?

Farming is not 8-5 it is 24 hrs.. It is enjoyable but it take time away from family. Forget the money. Money just makes one evil and greedy. Forget about the neighbors...Our country's problems are all based off of "keeping up with the Jones's"

In this day and age it is difficult to start from scratch.

Be Careful!!! I don't want to ruin your inthusiasm however I don't want to be feeding you and your 6 kids in the future either

Good luck


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## enos (Dec 6, 2009)

Bit of advice I got from my old neighbor when I was starting.
If you meet a woman with a horse, walk away. Doesn't matter how shiny she is, walk away. Saves a fortune down the road. And if you can turn your hobby into a living, you just retired. Mind you, you'll probably make more money picking oats outa horse $hit than farming but if you like it you can live on less.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

No sadly that magnum isnt mine. yes I do live at home yet but I bought that acre of land right next to the house to log off an build a house an i would like to fence some of the two acres we have an have a couple cattle for the time being. No truck payment yet. got a 3/4 ton pontiac. lol No woman I think im better off without one right now. An ya down the road i wouldnt mine having a kid or two.

By no means is it all about money. Ive been farming with my uncle from when i was 5-12 then he retired an sold it off, then i started to farm with my one good friend. I just love doing it.

Now lets say you have 1000acres of top dollar alfalfa an like i said is 200 a ton an you 1000acres an on average you have 15tons an acre. so 15x1000 is 15000 tons right? then if thats right you would times by 200 to get the total price. Am i right or am i missing something?


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Been a while since I lived up there, but if you're in NE PA then your likely market for hay will either be the horse farms over in New Jersey and down by Philly for square bales or the daries in those same areas for rounds and big squares. You might want to make some field trips to see what those markets are looking for.

Depending on where you are in NE PA you need to look at your growing season. The Poconos have less of a growing season. When I lived up there (NJ) all of our grass hay came from a little farther West on Rt 80 (around Danville). How many cuttings you can expect and the type of hay will determine the number of acres you need to make a living (along with paying off your equipment note). Also, buying productive farm land can be expensive...you may want to see what the typical lease terms are in your area.

Like everyone else says...do your homework and go into it with your eyes open. Good luck!


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Now lets say you have 1000acres of top dollar alfalfa an like i said is 200 a ton an you 1000acres an on average you have 15tons an acre. so 15x1000 is 15000 tons right? then if thats right you would times by 200 to get the total price. Am i right or am i missing something?

15 tons an acre wow.Not gonna happen.I think the record yield is slightly over 10 tons.Don't know what the yields are there but I would take a stab at 4.5-6 ton acre.

Lets use some realistic numbers and figure things on the conservitive side.You will not get all your hay put up in great shape and get $200 ton for it niether.

Lets use $175 ton X 5 ton ac = $875 acre X 1000 ac = $875,000 gross

Now for some costs.Everyones will be different.
Land $250
Fertilizer $150
Equipment $100
Supplies,Ins,etc $50
labor $50
frieght $50
seed pro rated $25
Total $675 per acre$

$875 - $675 = $200 net per acre X 1000 acres = $200,000

I think these numbers are a lot more realalistic than what you are thinking


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## gwillie44 (Nov 24, 2008)

5 ton is a pretty fat yeild. You don't have any cost for storaging for this big crop? Do you know how many bales of hay that is? None of the crop got rained on thus lowering your yield and price? Talk to your local extension agent for a "somewhat" historical yeild for your county. If you plan on making 1000 acres of alfalfa, you need almost 2 sets of equipment (cutters, rakes, balers, trucks, storage capacity).

As young hay producer in Wisconsin, It ain't all gravy. You sound like you would rather operate equipment then grow hay. My suggestions would be work for a custome operator for a summer, make sure want to commit to this lifestyle. In the mean time futher your education.

I think a few of these guys had some great idea about other marketing ideas. The horse market of the east coast seems to be a great idea.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Now lets say you have 1000acres of top dollar alfalfa an like i said is 200 a ton an you 1000acres an on average you have 15tons an acre. so 15x1000 is 15000 tons right? then if thats right you would times by 200 to get the total price. Am i right or am i missing something?
> 
> 15 tons an acre wow.Not gonna happen.I think the record yield is slightly over 10 tons.Don't know what the yields are there but I would take a stab at 4.5-6 ton acre.
> 
> ...


Now this is alot more realistic I wasnt real sure on tons per acre as you could see, now how would trucking it come into play I mean you aint going to truck it for nothing.

Also I just signed up for an intro to business class at my school for next to help out and a tech writing for billing an such.

Also sence its best to keep cost down is it better to keep older equipment (tractors) an overhaul them? like say the late 80s or 90s caseih magnums or get new stuff like a new puma? Id think to have a newer baler an discbine.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

gwillie44 said:
 

> 5 ton is a pretty fat yeild. You don't have any cost for storaging for this big crop? Do you know how many bales of hay that is? None of the crop got rained on thus lowering your yield and price? Talk to your local extension agent for a "somewhat" historical yeild for your county. If you plan on making 1000 acres of alfalfa, you need almost 2 sets of equipment (cutters, rakes, balers, trucks, storage capacity).
> 
> As young hay producer in Wisconsin, It ain't all gravy. You sound like you would rather operate equipment then grow hay. My suggestions would be work for a custome operator for a summer, make sure want to commit to this lifestyle. In the mean time futher your education.
> 
> I think a few of these guys had some great idea about other marketing ideas. The horse market of the east coast seems to be a great idea.


I will say i do love to operate equipment, but also want to do the best of my ability to learn how to grow the best hay I can. Main reason i signed up here.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

Mike120 said:


> Been a while since I lived up there, but if you're in NE PA then your likely market for hay will either be the horse farms over in New Jersey and down by Philly for square bales or the daries in those same areas for rounds and big squares. You might want to make some field trips to see what those markets are looking for.
> Depending on where you are in NE PA you need to look at your growing season. The Poconos have less of a growing season. When I lived up there (NJ) all of our grass hay came from a little farther West on Rt 80 (around Danville). How many cuttings you can expect and the type of hay will determine the number of acres you need to make a living (along with paying off your equipment note). Also, buying productive farm land can be expensive...you may want to see what the typical lease terms are in your area.
> 
> Like everyone else says...do your homework and go into it with your eyes open. Good luck!


Ive been looking around to go an view the market around here. Really pissed me off that I missed the Farm show, but what are ya going to do. pretty pumped for dairy days on the 15th see what i can learn.


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Brandon, I love your enthusiasm and spunk. Unfortunately, all that glitters ain't gold. I started farming with my Dad at an early age. We grew timothy and alfalfa to fuel his thorobred race horses because of a lack of quality hay in our area. He also had grown up on a farm. Like my Dad, I started a business when I was 16 and continued on with this to this day and farmed with him in the afternoons and at night. Every night! Lucky for me, having my own business afforded me the education of planning, planning, and more planning. So, over time I had a background in both. I only tell you this so that you can see the evolution of it all. There is nothing like putting everything down on paper to see how it works and having a good and sound business plan. Your banker will require it. You also need to establish some credit. This can be done by simply getting a credit card. Without it, you can't go anywhere. After reading all of these posts, I think that HEYHAY EH's post probably sums up everything. Go back and read it again and again and take heed! Good luck in your endeavors and I wish all the sucess in the world to you. Best, Mike


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

Brandon Buddy!

Your projections are very hypothetical and in a vacuum they yield mathematical results that are logical. Reality, unless you are independently wealthy or have a wealthy backer you may not get to realize 1000a of productive hay in the first 10 years or your operation. And to have 1000a of production requires some larger land base than 1000a to allow you the ability to cycle crops in and out of production.

So start with your SWOT analysis as it will get you focused on a point that allows you to realistically enter the business.

S​ W

Young ​No cash or assets
​No land 
​no equipment
Strong​limited knowledge in
Healthy​ cropping
Interested​business
Desire​ marketing
​no credit history

O ​ T

market potential from retired​ Well known reputable suppliers
​Consumer loyalty
​need for labour

This is just to get you started. Put up some sheets of paper and add to them as things come to you mind. This is a focus on reality exercise because it is no use doing the math for 1000a if you only can afford 100a. In this case your cost structure will be lopsided against you.Not so much your variable costs but your fixed costs will be out. Eg. If you are intent on expansion then you will buy larger and better equipment. So if you do 100a to 300a you might have the exact same equipment. Therefore fixed capital cost /100 vs fixed capital cost /300 puts a different cost per bale load on your total cost per bale determination.

If you read between the lines on the previous posts you will see that everyone is guiding you to make good decisions loaded with a massive dose of reality! It looks like you want to go at this in a big way and you may get there ... but not tomorrow ... unless my second thought of this post is true.

I am not too sure what the formatting will give me when I submit this post but your SWOT analysis is best done by drawing 4 quadrants on a large piece of paper and listing strengths top left; weaknesses top right; opportunities bottom left; threats bottom right.

Take care​


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

Brandon

Sorry the formatting was a disaster and makes no sense this way.

I will try to put something together in a word.doc and then paste it or attach it to a message for you. I might even have some xl spread sheets for the purpose of exploring revenues and costs of a start up ag business.

Take care


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

I wrote this yesterday and didn't finish some others have covered some of this already.

You have been given lots of good advice and have come to the right spot for it. Lot of folks that are way smarter than me have helped me alot.

Love to see young people with a vision or goal that is super. Too many folks have no goals. So look at what I'm suggesting not as a stop sign but maybe a short detour.

Some of the reasons you sighted are why I got into hay. As was suggested I had a mentor. I started 5 yrs ago now and was in my early 30's. The neighbor that still allows me to ask questions has helped a ton. I had not cut, raked, or baled hay at the time just stacked. So for me that didn't mean I could put up quality hay and still doesn't. I learn everyday and as I understood things i have even taught the old dog a trick or 2. Did / have you run the baler for the neighbor? Mowing and raking as well?

Have you had to work on the stuff? Makes a big difference when your broke down a rain is coming and you have 30 acres down on 4 different landlords. All bales are the same but different and you have to know how it works much deeper than driving along the windrow. For example this summer I learned on here to count strokes for better bale formation. Thanks Hay Wilson & others for that. Lot of this depends on your experience not what I think. I'd been operating my farm (corn beans wheat)for 20 years. I had no idea what I was getting into, but I still love it!

In terms of the numbers you have put together, they never work out on paper like the way you project. Notice swmn said "conservativly" that means less than what he might expect. Here is the question you should ask WHY? why what he say that. Why does heyhay say make up a business plan?

Reread several of the posts a few times. Why are they saying these things? Well for me i would like to save you the mistakes I have made. Like when my baler was down "What do I do now" becuase i had lots of hay down.

Again nothing i'm saying should persuade you to stop your passion, however make sure your headlights are on. And I want to hear after you have got your operation up and going how you did it and what you learned so I can learn from you as well. Good Luck!!
Mark K


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## steve IN (Jan 13, 2010)

Put a little grass in your alfafa as it will help it to dry. Here in NW IN i have a growing need for straight grass. Either Orchard, Timothy or Brome mix. Makes for very good horse or dry cow hay. I have to agree that you need a few cattle arpond to get rid of (I like the term "oops" hay) . Try testing out the freezer beef market. It has worked well for me. The biggest thing to learn from the start is get your money. Dont let people sucker you into terms unless you know them "very well". I learned from a man I trusted and respected years ago, "You cant pay your bills with IOU's". Best of luck to you.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

Well i really do appreciate all of this advise guys. I guess i might aswell use it an learn as much as i can about business an marketing.

Yes i do work on tractors an equipment all the time just built a buddys tractor in school an interantional 756 an she works perfect.

Yes Ive ran a baler john deere 458 silage special to be exact, Ive raked,tedded,cut. done all of that, but im sure i can learn something about doing it though. I feel if you dont learn something about what you do everyday its almost a waist. Grandpa tells me that.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Financing hasn't been touched on yet.To run a 1000 acre hay operation it will take a lot of capital.Depending on land,machinery and other costs you could be pushing $1,000,000.You are not going to walk into a bank and walk out with a million dollar loan.Typically a bank wants $2 in collateral for each $1 they loan you.And from my expierence the hay isn't as good collateral as corn or beans.(Because my banker had a bad experience with another hay farmer)

So without a pile of money of your own to start out at 1000 acres you will have to work in to it.Maybe a FSA begining farmer loan.Start out doing some custom work to help pay for eq.Maybe working with someone and sharing eq.

Sooo anyway you will have to start out and grow into it.

Good Luck


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

swmnhay said:


> Financing hasn't been touched on yet.To run a 1000 acre hay operation it will take a lot of capital.Depending on land,machinery and other costs you could be pushing $1,000,000.You are not going to walk into a bank and walk out with a million dollar loan.Typically a bank wants $2 in collateral for each $1 they loan you.And from my expierence the hay isn't as good collateral as corn or beans.(Because my banker had a bad experience with another hay farmer)
> 
> So without a pile of money of your own to start out at 1000 acres you will have to work in to it.Maybe a FSA begining farmer loan.Start out doing some custom work to help pay for eq.Maybe working with someone and sharing eq.
> 
> ...


This is the plan to work into what I want. I mean like you said there is no way your gonna walk into the bank asking for 1million dollars im sure they'd laugh at you.

How does everyone go about there business? Like do you all deal with your own finances, taxes, do you guys have your own trucks to haul your hay? just would like to know the best way to go about doing this the cheapest an best way well maybe not the cheapest but i think you guys understand what im trying to say!


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## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

In our area i dont see how guys are still going. 3 dollar corn 4 dollar wheat. Alfalfa is a lot better money making deal. we sell alfalfa from 115-160/ton. we had a alfalfa field that needed to lay out a couple years and we planted it to corn. we would have been better to just let lay out and let the crab grass grow and cut it to sell or feed to our cows and that was when corn was 5 dollars. our ground rents for 35-45 an acre and sells for 1000-1500 an acre. corn generally yields 80 bu and 40 bu wheat is a good crop. we will get five cuttings of alfalfa and sometimes six. we will generally make 6 ton per year.

If i figure this right it would be 6 ton x 500 acres= 3000 tons x 140=420,000 dollars/500 acres=840 dollars per acre. I know there is not any grain crop that will do that good in our area.


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## Brandon C. (Feb 10, 2010)

Hayking said:


> In our area i dont see how guys are still going. 3 dollar corn 4 dollar wheat. Alfalfa is a lot better money making deal. we sell alfalfa from 115-160/ton. we had a alfalfa field that needed to lay out a couple years and we planted it to corn. we would have been better to just let lay out and let the crab grass grow and cut it to sell or feed to our cows and that was when corn was 5 dollars. our ground rents for 35-45 an acre and sells for 1000-1500 an acre. corn generally yields 80 bu and 40 bu wheat is a good crop. we will get five cuttings of alfalfa and sometimes six. we will generally make 6 ton per year.
> 
> If i figure this right it would be 6 ton x 500 acres= 3000 tons x 140=420,000 dollars/500 acres=840 dollars per acre. I know there is not any grain crop that will do that good in our area.


this is why i want to get into alfalfa you just dont see the money out of corn! an corn just seems to be a gamble


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Brandon C. said:


> this is why i want to get into alfalfa you just dont see the money out of corn! an corn just seems to be a gamble


And Alfalfa is not a big gamble:confused:

Wheather can be a major problem.You can have seeding failures from being to,dry to wet and late frost.You can have a crop hailed off.You can have a crop blown all over the field.You can have a crop that is ruined by rain.You can have a dry yr and have a low yield.You can have a late frost in spring and lower yield.You can have winter kill and have no yield or low yield.

Labor can be a issue.With a larger operation you need help that will show up when it's time to make hay.It could cost a lot of $ if someone doesn't show up and weather turns to crap.

The hay market is the biggest gamble.Not as easy to lock in your prices as corn or beans.You just can't call up the elevator and sell or contract.You can't use CBOT to place a hedge or buy a option.You maybe able to contract with someone but if they go broke or the hay markets crash the contract is about as good as Toilet Paper.You will always have someone trying to undercut your price.You will get bad checks.You will not get pd because of a bankruptcy.You will end up being owed money at times.

I don't mean to discourage you Hay Farmer but its not as rosey as you persieve it to be.All these things have happened to me over the yrs.I look at it more as Risk - Reward I am more at risk with hay vs corn- beans but hopefully the rewards are higher
And I don't have my eggs all in one basket.DIVERSIFY.I grow corn,beans and alfalfa in rotation


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## NDVA HAYMAN (Nov 24, 2009)

Brandon, The very best thing about hay farming is that you make your own market and that is entirely up to you! There is not just one source to sell your crop to that will tell you what that price will be. But, as Swmnhay said, you do need some diversification in your plan. Mike


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

for example we diversified into hay sales and custom hay work. We had the equipment and were baling for ourselves, so it was an easy step.

Another diversification for us last year was custom seeding CRP acres. almost 300 ac. We found that no one was able ( equipment or time) to get the acres seeded. That helped us on operating cash flow.

The idea of custom stacking might be a way to get your foot in the door. we all retire eventually or go out of business, thus who do they call... the stacker who now just bought a baler. etc.

But don't diversify to much that can kill you as well. Jack of all trades thing, master of none. Good sugestion SWMN and NVDA Hay!


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Stacking might be a good start...

I know since i have started three of the local custom farmers have parked their stackers and I do all their custom work.

They say they like it because they can bail a field and move on...

It helps i think to figure our schedules with demanding people... What you can and can't do and it takes a lot of miss figuring to fall more than a day or two behind... kind of nice in a time critical service.


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## JD4430 (May 27, 2009)

Hey there. I too really like your enthusiasm and you sound a lot like I did a few years ago. You are trying to fullfill a dream! This is a good thing but you have to start small or smaller. I am from West central NJ, pretty close to you. I am 23 and just started farming not too long ago. I thought long and hard about my decision but absolutely had to keep my day job until I got established. I attended college and learned as much as i could growing up in 4-H etc.. I did not grow up in a farming family and had little knowledge of crops or haymaking. I worked for a few farms around the area and fell in love with it. 
One big thing that will help you is friends! Make friends with local farmers around the area and more than likely they will help a young farmer out like you! Start out smaller, I started with a few sheep and lambs and found a niche in selling lamb to restaurants towards NYC. Eventually we grew larger with the livestock and sold eggs for top dollar as well. This enabled me to gain some income and profit and use as a stepping stone to buying equipment. When I got into hay I knew there was a need due to the booming horse industry and small hobby farm industry in NJ. Farmers are a dying breed in NJ but someone has to supply the Hay to the small equine or livestock farmer. The first year I farmed around 70 acres with all borrowed equipment from a good friend! that was a huge plus and I was able to show FSA that i made a profit and was now ready to buy my own equipment and farm more land. All the while I was still working full time off the farm. I rented and still rent most of my barns for storage and won't put my own up until I am financially ready. I warn you Haymaking can and will be stressful, especially the first few years, there are alot of variables involved and I always say that I learned more in that first season than I have ever in all the years of my life!! Start slow and go to FSA for a youth loan to get started the rates are low and terms are good! Don't assume you are going to make a huge profit the first few years if any! I think we could all make more flipping burgers at McDonalds! LOL But it is a lifestyle and you have to love it or you will hate it!


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## jonfrahm (Jan 31, 2010)

find a custom hay bailer in your area see if they need summer help learn from them is a good start


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## tw30 (Apr 4, 2010)

im also young 19 yr old and want to become a hay farmer but im going for 215 acres looked at smaller like 15-50 acres but it cost more than buying large landage .
equipment

tractor-10-20k
rake-1-5k 
mower-15k
baler-1-3k
landpayment 300$ month try owner finnacing if possible someone who will work with you banks will not 
seed drill -2k
fertilizer ,seeds , baler wrap , & fuel .and im sure i forgot somthing lol 
the weather hear usally pretty dry and calm , 
i plan on buying the rake ,mower baler etc 1 month apart then somtime next year finniace the tractor.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

swmnhay said:


> And Alfalfa is not a big gamble:confused:
> 
> And I don't have my eggs all in one basket.DIVERSIFY.I grow corn,beans and alfalfa in rotation


This^^

Corn, beans, Alfalfa, wheat. I also sell Clearspan buildings, make custom hay when time permits, and do repair work on the side. If you ever need a Cat dropped into an antique International or Dodge grain truck to replace the original gas motor, I'm your man.

No matter how well an operation is managed, when all the eggs are in one basket, count on the basket handle breaking.


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## kfarm_EC_IL (Aug 5, 2008)

mlappin said:


> This^^
> 
> . If you ever need a Cat dropped into an antique International or Dodge grain truck to replace the original gas motor, I'm your man.


mlappin, That cat thing ain't cheap! I got the cats to supply your side job in repair.

In our area the majority is solely row crops. And I would agree this tends to leave a person exposed to a lot of risk. Verse being able to survive (unlike our cat) and live to fight another day with the other enterprizes carrying the load. Spread risk!

My thoughts for our farm
Mark


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