# 3x3 requirements



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So I'm seriously considering going to 3x3's so if prices are low here I stand a much better chance of shipping them to areas with higher prices. Another option is to jsut say the hell with it and tear a bunch of hay out in favor of row crops and keep just enough to feed my beef cows. Third option is to just wait it out till prices rise.

Anyways, all the guys around here that consistently sell quality 3x3's tell me they _absolutely must_ be picked up as fast as you can make em. Even when it's very dry around here they'll still wick enough moisture out of the ground overnight to mold on the side in contact with the ground.

So I'm wondering how much help, trailers/trucks does it take to keep up with a good 3x3? Most likely because of the proximity of the NH dealers in my are I'd stick with New Holland even though I've heard great things about the Hesston/MF 3x3's. My farthest field is about 9 miles away in the next county, closest is at the back of the farm.

Last field I baled with my round baler I was making a 900lb bale a minute (including wrapping and ejection) and I figured it went about 1.25 tons/acre. I figure I was getting 27 tons/hour thru my round baler. Whats the capacity of a 3x3?

Other problem I'm looking at is I'd need another tractor to run it. Both small four wheel drives wouldn't be a option. The one always has the rear tank mounted on it and the spray boom, the other has a planter behind it, the 400 hp 4wd is over kill and doesn't have a PTO anyways. The MF 8160 might be on the Hiniker bean planter yet when I want to bale first cutting, and it's also used for side dressing, so I'm right at having to buy another tractor. All my other tractors are 120hp or smaller.

How much power does a 3x3 require? I always hear at least a 150hp tractor to run one, how much is that just for the weight of the tractor??


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## Toyes Hill Angus (Dec 21, 2010)

Like anything else it never hurts to go bigger than you need but, I have run a TG210 NH tractor on a BB940 NH baler for a freind some, the two seemed to be a near perfect match. The 210 is listed at 170 PTO HP and weighs 23,500lbs unbalasted. The BB940 is by no means the largest capicity 3X3 out there, but you can really put a pile of hay into it in a hurry. The only downfall to the TG210/BB940 setup is the lack of ground clearance onder the 210. It is on 20.8 R 42s and does not have the height to go over two 12' windrows of dry hay without dragging hay and bunching up under the tractor. And that is after putting feedbags,mudflaps and whatever else you want on the corners that catch the hay.


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## Hayking (Jan 17, 2010)

We pulled our hesston with a 155 case puma it handled the baler very Good its only 135 pto HP 150 Eng HP. We no pull it with one of our T 7040 new Hollands which is 150 pto and 180 Eng HP.

We try to put it in the barn quick If we think it is going to rain but we have let them set out in the field for two to three days before it really depends how busy we get.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would say 150+ definetely. Our BB940 will push out an 800 lb bale a minute in heavy hay. 60 bales an hour. If you do not have far to haul, 2 guys can more than keep up with it moving bales. Dad runs my baler and I can take my 13 year old boy to drive in the field for me and almost keep up hauling 3 miles to the barn. My new loader tractor picks up 3 at a time and things would go a lot quicker yet if I could stack 6 high in the barn, but I can only go 4 high. I stack the semi 3 high, 3 wide for 54 bales and have a gooseneck and a bunch of wagons also. Just a thought, but if I buy another baler, I would buy a 3x4, more hay in a bale, less bales, two wide on truck and ride a whole lot better.


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## haystax (Jul 24, 2010)

For HP - 120 should work but bigger is better as others have stated. We have pulled our Hesston 3x4 with MX120, MTX135, Puma 140, and now a Magnum 190. The 190 is the best combo and the CVT trans is perfect for baling. The main concern with the smaller HP tractors is the lack of weight and the baler really pushes the tractor around and you sure feel it when the bales drop off the chute.

I would suggest a 3x4 bale size, more expensive but the generally accepted "best" size for trucking. Plus you have less bales to move compared to the 3x3.


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## farmer2 (Aug 6, 2010)

I think you guys are going over board on the power. I just traded in a 3x3x8 and it did not use any where near the hp that your 1431 does (I have the same discbine). A good heavy 100 hp tractor will run a 3x3 no problem. Where you run into the biggest problem is the weight of the tractor not the power. However, the new tandem axle balers are a lot better. A lot of the new tractors have the power but not the weight. Truthfully your white 2-110 would run a 3x3x8 fine. 150hp will run a 4x4x8. I don't know how flat your land is, but you don't need a 150hp tractor. By far your biggest issue will be getting the bales off the field. The first thing you need to do is set up a loader that can handle three at a time to load a truck. It will be tempting to get a high bale count machine because of the cost...don't do it! People don't trade these things in working perfectly, you will inherent a lot of problems. They are very complicated machines. For the first 3 years we had ours I had my head in the shop manual just trying to get the thing tuned properly. However, once you get one going, there is nothing like watching those bales pop out as you drive!

farmer2


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

We have found two people can keep up with one bailer as well. What you will run into is having to move the tractor/loader to and from the barn. That takes some time if you don't have a machine in the field and one in the barn. I see accumulators as nice addition. The truck or tractor doesn't have to travel the field as much that way. It seems to save on wear and tare.

Trailer size will affect the speed as well... Wouldn't use a pickup truck day in and day out. It seems to be hard on ours. You could pull a semi trailer around with your 400 hp tractor when just going short distances... Would say an inexpensive semi and 53 ft trailer would be nice otherwise...if you have the room...

Doulas are nice, I agree that more hp is better than less. 160hp IH pulls ours....


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## cattleranch (Dec 17, 2010)

We used to run our Hesstons 3x3 on a JD 4450 and now we run on a MF 7465 Tier III. We have run 4750, 4755, and now 4760. The 7465 runs the baler a lot better than the JD does. I would say 100 pto hp and a 6 cylinder of course I might would try one of these new 4's. Our dealer is running 2150's on Kubota M135X and Massey's. I think your capacity is just about the same with your round baler as 3x3. The only advantage you would have is selling the hay. Some hay in Rooselvelt, UT I heard just went to Texas for 240 a ton in big squares. Oh I think the main advantage to Hesston is longevity. We are running 32000 and no problems.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I already have the loader and transport part down. I keep the backhoe at the farm and pull a 16 ton tandem axle behind the truck. Second loader gets moved from field to field on the trailer. Also have a second truck that could haul hay when it's not hooked to the 2000 gallon nurse trailer. Also have a second 12 ton tri axle trailer that any one of the duallies could handle. Also have a tracked Bobcat skid steer.

With the engines I have in my White 2-110's either one of those could be turned up to 145hp. They use the same engine as the conventional MF combines used and those were putting out around 145hp. Could add all the weights I have to one of them, dual it up then have the rears filled with beet juice for even more weight.

Could also just find another White 4-175 and pull the 23.1x32's of the parts tractor and run singles instead of duals. Most of the 4-175's are getting quite reasonable. If I remember correctly the shipping weight on the 4-175 was around 17-18000 lbs. We don't even mess around having the pumps set to factory on those four wheel drives and just install pumps set for 210hp instead of 175.

I'll have to put serious pencil to paper on this. Just finally got out of debt and have no desire to jump back in. Took two years of jumping thru Social Security's hoops before the wife finally got her disability. I could go on for pages and pages about what a crock of BS that is. When not a single one of her doctor's would release her to work again, I certainly don't understand how they expect her to work _against_ doctor's orders. Be truthful about her health on a job app then nobody would ever hire her, lie about it and if she's found out, automatic termination. Then to add insult to injury only took em another 5 months after she got a favorable judgement to get her back disability. While she never made a lot when she did work, it was always enough for her to pay her own car insurance, buy her own gas, maintenance on her car, grocerys and she'd still have a little pocket money. Two years of paying for everything was getting me spread mighty thin. Thin enough I was putting stuff on the credit cards that I never had to before. Her back disability was enough to pay off all the credit cards and other bills we still had from her the health problem that started all this back in the fall of 2008.

So unless I can find a clear advantage to switching balers, like I mentioned, I'm not real anxious to take on a ton of debt again. Always the possibility as well if row crops stay high enough for another couple of years, fertilizer and land rent could get high enough that even $250/ton hay doesn't pencil out when the added aggravation of fighting the weather trying to get the hay to dry is figured in as well as having to make a baler payment.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Another thought is I'd keep my round baler for baling my own hay for the beef cows. No need to waste building space for that. Another thought is if it looks like it could rain at any minute I'd go ahead and round bale it, or if I was short on help go ahead and round bale it and pick up the next day. Like I pointed out, _here_ that regularly haul quality large squares to the auctions all say you can't leave em out overnight.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm just not sure why there is the worry about big square bales on the ground overnight, unless the soil is saturated. We've been doing mid-size sq for years, and never had an issue. Usually we pick them up the same day, but we are much more concerned about moisture coming from the sky in the form of rain than moisture coming up from the dirt. . .

Just for giggles I looked up the power requirements for NH big sq:

Std 3x3 102hp min
Packer cutter 3x3 110hp min
Roto cutter 3x3 130hp min

Std 3x4 125hp min
Roto cutter 3x4 150hp min

Numbers are very similar for BB900A and BB9000

Hilly ground and higher travel speeds will tax your power just as much as the PTO load will.
I would also have a look at drawbar strength. There's enough weight on a big baler hitch to find a weak point if you're bouncing on rough ground.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Gearclash said:


> I'm just not sure why there is the worry about big square bales on the ground overnight, unless the soil is saturated. We've been doing mid-size sq for years, and never had an issue. Usually we pick them up the same day, but we are much more concerned about moisture coming from the sky in the form of rain than moisture coming up from the dirt. . .


Around _here_ we get around forty inches of rain a year, and like I pointed out the guys that successfully make quality large squares year in and year out all say "do not leave em on the ground any longer than absolutely required", IE pick em up as fast as you can make em. The guy that has burned down two barns since he went to 3x3's says pick em up when you have time.

Far as the drawbar, the trick there is to bolt em solid so you eliminate side to side movement and up and down. On the tractor I mow with, I took a heavy piece of plate, drilled several holes in it and have a bolt going thru the drawbar support on either side of the draw bar, then one on front and back side of of the support. I use 5/8" bolts and self locking nuts and have never broke a support with the discbine. A neighbor that doesn't believe it will help has bought two spare drawbar support assembly's from me in the last four years because he keeps busting them with the same discbine I have, he also has almost the identical model tractor as well.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Our neighbor has been running 4x4 hesstons with a 4440 since the 1980's. He has broken a few drawbars, and since he has made a 'support' (like you said) he hasn't broken any. We got a 3x3 this spring, and since the 4640 was unused that part of the year, that's where it went. It has more than enough power, but hills will make it work, and unless your territory is pretty flat you do want enough tractor to hold things in place. I have seen more than one in pictures that was upside down in a ditch. And from what they were telling me, a big single tire gives much more flotstion than 2 little ones on the tandem, and some machines won't steer. Our dealer was saying that unless a guy did 30mph down the road, then a single tire would be the better choice. I would also think that you should get them picked as soon as you can - with any luck you'll be able to finish baling earlier in the day, and might have more time to pick bales? Not sure how tight the RB packs them, but a 3x3 will make them tighter and they will be less tolerant of moisture. You also probably need some sort of preservative and applicator system as well.

Rodney


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