# Electronics rant



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Have a light out in dash in tractor.It's not repairable they say. Replacement dash unit is $2000 from Agco.But I can send it in to aftermarket repair shop for $150.

Preheater sensor $1500 vs a $5 toggle switch.Hmmm guess what I'm doing.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

I think we all are going to have to build little clean rooms in a corner of our shops for these little electronic repairs. Haha


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## danwi (Mar 6, 2015)

We have a glimpse of the future and it is not always pretty.


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

I use old tractors. But I have been thinking about getting a newer one with 4wd and shuttle shift. But all those electonics mean so much to go wrong.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Just spend $150 yesterday on a new variable output soldering iron, desoldering braid and liquid flux. Fixing skidsteer dashes has become fairly lucerative for me...


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## paoutdoorsman (Apr 23, 2016)

Can you fix a Bobcat S300 cluster that no longer displays hours PaMike?


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

paoutdoorsman said:


> Can you fix a Bobcat S300 cluster that no longer displays hours PaMike?


I never messed with those. Only been working on NH ones. The issue with many of the NH ones is either bad microswitches or corroded solder joints/cracked solder joints.

I don't know anything about the bobcat display but I would recommend pulling it apart and visually looking at the solder joints for the display. Some simple soldering may solve your problem..


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Worked on a bunch of different stuff, and i would say 80% of the time its a solder joint. In my ford excursion i have had 3 differnt electronic peices that had bad solder joints. I just visually inspect and then if i dont see it start ohming stuff out.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

StxPecans said:


> Worked on a bunch of different stuff, and i would say 80% of the time its a solder joint. In my ford excursion i have had 3 differnt electronic peices that had bad solder joints. I just visually inspect and then if i dont see it start ohming stuff out.


Yup, I used to send a bunch of my dashes out for repair. I thought the guy doing the work was a genius with all kinds of test equipment. Nope, most of the time he just resoldered something and maybe fixed a trace.

Some of the skidsteer dashes that have a button to unlock the park brake fail. I would send them out to be fixed for $200. I did some digging and found out the switch fails...$0.67 switch from Mouser and 30 minutes to solder a new one in, and I am good to go...


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## StxPecans (Mar 3, 2018)

Infact this reminds me of some genie telehandler and manlift electronics. Make you buy a whole assymbly for a 3$ micro switch that failed on it. And genie actually had a part number for the switch to solder on. Foot pedel for mablift was 3-400$ always failed due to mud. You could soilder a new microswitch on for cheap.


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## Texasmark (Dec 20, 2011)

After solder joints look for relays to be the culprit. Part number is usually stamped on it. Google that number and you may be surprised at your replies........how inexpensive and available the parts are.

Solid state devices are pretty much bullet proof.....exception can be power devices with attached heat sinks which may be mounted with thermal compound that dries out over time...sometimes just removing the sink, applying fresh compound and reinstalling the sink solves the problem.

Metal oxide resistors used in most things these days don't change value like old carbons did, electrolytic capacitors in low voltage printed wiring boards last a life time.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

The biggest problem with current electronics is can-shape capacitors. They swell up, then short out. There was a company (somewhere in Asia and I can't remember the name or location right now -- case of CTS) that had the market pretty much cornered. The caps would last about 4 years. The company is now belly-up. One of their customers was Viewsonics who took a serious ding in the ol' pocketbook. I've repaired several with $20 kits and an hours time.

Ralph


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)




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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

Aside from the high cost of equipment these days, especially for someone small like me, I'm thinking this might be why the price on older used equipment is skyrocketing. People don't want the electronic controlled stuff being produced now.

It's a bunch of crap that I don't own my stuff, but just have a license to use the soft/firm ware in it.

The first piece of equipment that I've ever owned that has electronics in it, is the NH650 I bought about 3ish yrs back.

All my small trucks are 94' Fords. Computerized, but they're plug 'n play......no programming required by the dealer. You can buy a replacement puter, and pop it in, and you're on your way.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

farmersamm said:


> Aside from the high cost of equipment these days, especially for someone small like me, I'm thinking this might be why the price on older used equipment is skyrocketing. People don't want the electronic controlled stuff being produced now.
> 
> It's a bunch of crap that I don't own my stuff, but just have a license to use the soft/firm ware in it.
> 
> ...


Emissions is probably the bigger reason older stuff is holding value well.Cost of the emissions crap and shorter longevity of engines!


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## farmersamm (Nov 2, 2017)

swmnhay said:


> Emissions is probably the bigger reason older stuff is holding value well.Cost of the emissions crap and shorter longevity of engines!


I'd heard, applying to gasoline engines, that the emissions controls (in cylinder mixture control, not cylinder exhaust gas treatment), actually added to the lifespan of the engine. The higher efficiency with computer control generates less carbon in the cylinders, so less abrasion in the long term.

I know that better metallurgy has lead to longevity, so it might not be solely a matter of increased combustion efficiency.

I'm thinking that the newer smaller motors are burning up faster because they just can't do the work they're asked to do. My old 460 will pull all day long, with very little stress. I get passed by some of the new trucks with the new small motors, and they sound like they're ready to explode 

K'kins thinks that, because they're constantly coming out with new engine designs, the bugs aren't worked out yet. The old motors were on the road for decades(plenty of time to correct design flaws), the new ones seem to change every few years. She might have a point.

Might be that my 94's were on the cusp of design goodness. Old motors, but with updated computer controls, and changes in some of the key metals. Got 265K on the F-150, and about 190K on the F-350. They're a bit weaker than they were, but still run ok, and don't burn oil. They leak oil though :lol: The 300 in the pickup leaks like a sieve thru the side gasket that covers the push rods.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

I don't mind "Some" electronics where it is beneficial to the operation of the machine, but it is getting ridiculous, it's more like a computer on wheels.

The reason why most manufacturers go electronic in almost everything is cost! It's cheaper for them,not you, to use electronics than mechanical features.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

farmersamm said:


> I'd heard, applying to gasoline engines, that the emissions controls (in cylinder mixture control, not cylinder exhaust gas treatment), actually added to the lifespan of the engine. The higher efficiency with computer control generates less carbon in the cylinders, so less abrasion in the long term.
> 
> I know that better metallurgy has lead to longevity, so it might not be solely a matter of increased combustion efficiency.
> 
> ...


There has been a great shift in philosophy of manufacturing. Years ago machine were built to last, now they are built to last only a certain amount of years to ensure new purchases, this planned obsolescence was pioneered decades ago by a GM president (cant think of the name) soon it will not be economically feasible to buy a tractor, combine etc due to the cost of repairs and the life span of the machine and we'll be doomed to forever lease a unit. It's happening right now with Volvo cars, that's the lovely future we're facing


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## KYhaymaker (Jun 7, 2018)

farmersamm said:


> Aside from the high cost of equipment these days, especially for someone small like me, I'm thinking this might be why the price on older used equipment is skyrocketing. People don't want the electronic controlled stuff being produced now.
> 
> It's a bunch of crap that I don't own my stuff, but just have a license to use the soft/firm ware in it.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have older, less electronic equipment as well. Jd 4440, 96 F350 7.3l, etc. Easier to diagnose.

On the diesels the emissions add a lot of expense, complexity, and steal horsepower. All of which adds up to more money in mx, and ironically more fuel consumption.

The new computer's worst feature is that it limits who can work on it.

I would love some of the newer features but the cost and complexity are holding me back. For now.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Think "Harvard MBA".

There is no profit if there is no sale. Build a piece of equipment that last 5 years vs a piece of equipment that lasts 20 years and you have 4 times the sales, therefore 4 times the profit.

Ralph


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> Think "Harvard MBA".
> 
> There is no profit if there is no sale. Build a piece of equipment that last 5 years vs a piece of equipment that lasts 20 years and you have 4 times the sales, therefore 4 times the profit.
> 
> Ralph


Thats where competition in the marketplace is a good thing. You build a machine that lasts 5 years i will build same machine as you but lasts 10 years and take your customers away. 
But again that is where it's not good in agriculture. Too little competition for the motorized equipment.


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