# Seeding Hay and Discing



## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Hello and Thanks in Advance

So this is a serious newbie post.

I have been trying to become a hay producer, but a lack of knowledge and poor equipment purchase decisions have not led to success - yet.

I have 2 fields I need to seed. They were ploughed by the guy who used to farm my property, then he gave it up, so they are mostly weeds now. Last year I got about 1/5the of the way through discing and my (used) disc self destructed so this spring I got a new (used) disc which is much better than the old one.

I figure at least the first time, I'd pay someone to seed the fields for me. The local seed guy wants me to disc twice. When I disc, it pretty much mows down and I figure kills all the weeds, etc.. However, it doesn't turn things upside down - so the soil isn't on top as though the field had been tilled. I've only done one pass with the disc, but I thought a disc was supposed to basically turn things upside down.

Is this OK or do I need to, for example, adjust the angle of the discs?

In other words, do I have to sort of till the field with my disc in order to seed, or is discing it twice sufficient?

Should I get a spreader and seed it myself, or is hiring a pro a good idea?

Thanks again


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

From your question about changing the angle of the gangs I'm taking it's an older lighter disc. Those were really meant to follow a plow and work loose soil. Most or em did not have enough weight to actually break hard soil or cut sod up.

We have a 273 White that is nothing but heavy and even it won't handle too much sod on one pass. Most of the time to get rid of heavy weeds/sod it works best in our area to hit it all, let the green material dry out a bit then disc it again, and wait again for any trash to dry out before discing it again.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

To late now but you should of sprayed it with Roundup first.Let every thing die and dry up and it would of worked up a lot better.


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks

Yes - its an older White disc (I think a 255) about 10' wide. I couldn't justify buying a huge tractor to pull a huge disc, so I got this one and use my 90 HP Kubota to pull it. Its sure a lot better than the old Ford I had, and at least I can get parts for this one.

I had though about using Roundup, and I have no aversion to it, but I am told people like 'organic' hay, and it isn't organic if you've used Roundup. That being said, it sounds like I should be ok on the second pass (?)

Any advice on seeding?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

mingy said:


> I had though about using Roundup, and I have no aversion to it, but I am told people like 'organic' hay, and it isn't organic if you've used Roundup. That being said, it sounds like I should be ok on the second pass (?)
> 
> Any advice on seeding?


Could take more than a second as I'm not sure what weeds you have or soil type.

Takes a little more than just not using roundup on it for it to officially be "organic" hay.

Unless you're actually going to try to have it certified as organic, Roundup would have been fine as it has no residual.

Swmnhay did bring up a valid point though. We don't work old hay fields that are going to corn anymore. make the last cutting the year before, wait for about 6 inches of regrowth then hit it hard with a tank mix of Roundup and 2-4d. Spray again in the spring with the same mix and no-till to corn.


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks. I'll have to look into the whole Roundup & organic thing. People are funny about those kinds of things.

The weeds are a mix of ragweed, golden rod, you name it. The soil is a 'sandy loam' which I find to be pretty powdery. Its definitely not 'black soil' or rich with organic matter, despite having been farmed for over 100yrs.

Oddly enough, I've seen them do the same thing as you describe for corn and soy beans here. I figured I'd stick with hay to start because I read you could seed it once and cut it for five years or so.

Thanks again.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mingy said:


> Hello and Thanks in Advance
> 
> Should I get a spreader and seed it myself, or is hiring a pro a good idea?


When I don't know what I'm doing I get a pro to do it the first (second, third....) time to do it and watch carefully, ask a lot a questions, see how they do it, ask for little tips, tricks and techniques, then I try it myself. Saves a lot of learning by trial and error, emphasis on "Error".

Ralph


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## hmcohay (Jul 27, 2010)

We are in some pretty tough black dirt here. We have to chisel at least once and then disk to get the seed bed right. (I'm talking wheat or sudan) I know sweeps are going by the way side but I still use them some to help disturb the ground enough to run a tandem over it.


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## Customfarming (Oct 8, 2009)

Sounds like you will probably have to disc about 2-3 times more. Every time you disc make sure go at a different angle through the field. This helps level and prepare the ground better. I would wait until after a rain and hit it again. With the soil a little wet lets a disc cut deeper but make sure it is not to wet. If its too wet it will produce clods that will be hard to get rid of.

I would hire someone to plant seed the first year at least. A good planter guy should know and tell you if the land is prepared good enough to get a good stand.


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## mingy (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice!


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## rank (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes I agree. You have some more discing/cultivating to do. Make the field smooth.....you have to live with those bumps for years.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

disc disc disc disc. Or moulboard plow followed by a disc of field cultivator a couple times to level it off. Your going to be driving on it for a few years so use a drag harrow or a roller or both to level it off nice after you seed to eliminate bumps.


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## Rodney R (Jun 11, 2008)

Another option would have been to run the bush hog over it before any discing. Do you have a plow? If it has coulters on it (to cut the grass and weeds), I think I'd make my next pass with it, and then a few more with the disc. The thing is that even though the land was plowed last year, you have to treat it like you're starting over. A few times over with the disc will not be enough. Eventually, you'll have loose dirt, UNDER all of the residue. To really work the ground with a disc, it needs to have a large spacing between the blades, and a pretty high weight per blade. More or less what is normally called an offset disc or a plowing disc. I'm not familiar with your model, but I'd bet that it's more of a finishing disc - one that's used to finish the seedbed after using an offset disc or a plow. They have a much closer spacing between the blades, and a much lower weight per blade. It might do the close to the job you want but it's going to take 5-6 passes with it (or more).

Rodney


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

You'll want to run a field cultivator or drag over it before planting. No matter how many times you disc it, it won't be near a nice a finish as a drag or field cultivator will leave.

FYI for those out there, I believe he said he had a 255 White. Nice little finishing disc. Blades on 7" centers. We have a similar model but I think its a 16'. Like it for breaking open the wet muck in the spring.

Have one I'm getting ready now. Has been disced several times over the summer, field cultivated several times. Have some slave labor coming in to pick all the bigger rocks, then I'll run the disc and packer over it lightly to bury the 30,000 tennis ball size rocks in the field then I'll plant.


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## Robin Craig (Aug 8, 2010)

Dear Mingy,

We are about a year ahead of you and just a bit East of you, we are on clay.

We have tried spring seeding but I think to have the best chance and weather window planting now at least for us with clay is best.

The field gets cut down with an 18 ft wide batwing Woods brush hog.

About 10 days later we burn down using Round Up. We have a sprayer that tows behind an ATV which is great as there is a digital readout for speed which is very accurate.

Five to seven days later we go in with an Eeze On offset disc and open up the ground, usually going in a couple of different directions. Then a number of passes with a JD finishing disc. Rock picking as we go.

Once we like the till of the ground we come back in with an 8" X 12 ft steel beam attached by chains and centred to the tractor and a chain harrow attached behind that with the short tines in the ground. We have yet to ever get rid of a slight ridge formed in the centre of the finishing discs and going a few ways across the field really gets a lot of the hollows and ridges gone for a quite smooth field. Again rock picking as we go. We keep the bucket on the loader when doing any of this to act as a handy place to put rocks and tip out in the hedge lines.

Next we come in with one of our very small tractors, an old 4100 with the broadcast seeder for the large seeds. We seed round and round in ever decreasing passes as it is easiest to see where we have gone. One ends up in the centre of the field.

Lastly we come in with a JD seeder with the fine seed in the front box with the tubes removed to allow the seed to free fall to the ground. Coupled behind is the packer so one knows very well where you have been. I do one or two passes all the way around the field and then paint in with the straightest and longest runs on the field raising the seeder where required so as to avoid double seeding but leaving the packer down all the time.

Right now we are trying Embutox or an equivalent to get rid of any broad leaf weeds that have come in at the second year. Unlike Round Up you will need a Growers pesticide licence to apply that.

Feel free to pm me for a phone number for a chat if you want, catching me at a good time may be more tricky . . .

Robin


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