# Driverless Tractors II



## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Case IH Magnum.

Regards, Mike

http://www.agweb.com/article/driverless-tractors-officially-no-longer-futuristic-naa-ben-potter/


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I read this

"[The tagline] embodies both our approach to equipment innovation and our customers' approach to their operations," says Tom Dean, marketing director for Case IH North America. "In today's ag economy, producers know they must focus on achieving the highest level of efficiency if they want to grow and succeed. That's why we are intensifying our focus on the combination of advanced technologies and agronomic design."

And immediately think just another way for the BTO's to drive the small family farms out of business&#8230;..or is it just me?


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## NewBerlinBaler (May 30, 2011)

In a related story, did anyone see the recent article about the robotic vacuum cleaner? It was programmed to clean the house at night while people were upstairs sleeping. The unit ran into dog poop from a puppy and spread it all over first floor.

Gary


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

NewBerlinBaler said:


> In a related story, did anyone see the recent article about the robotic vacuum cleaner? It was programmed to clean the house at night while people were upstairs sleeping. The unit ran into dog poop from a puppy and spread it all over first floor.
> 
> Gary


I didn't see the article, but my imagination tells me how the poo got there. Imagine a little puppy all safe and sound, snug as a bug in a rug, dreaming of a big juicy bone...then- all of the sudden- this robot creature comes to life and starts chasing him around. It probably scared the sheet out of him. Probably traumatized poor fluffy and will have to go to counseling.

73, Mark


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Like the old saying about airplanes... Soon planes will only require a pilot and a dog in the cockpit... The pilots job is to feed the dog. The dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls. I heard someone say that basically planes have had the ability to take off, fly across the world, and land without any humans in the cockpit at all... but that people simply won't accept that they're flying on a plane with no pilot. Not sure if that's entirely accurate, but if not it soon will be. I DO know that even back in the 50's when they tested the first inertial guidance system perfected at MIT, they installed it in a plane and took off from the East Coast, and once at cruising altitude, turned it on and let the inertial guidance system do the flying to Los Angeles. The plane successfully flew across the United States to the West Coast and turned south toward Los Angeles, precisely on the pre-programmed flight path. As it turned south, however, it took a different heading than was anticipated, and for a time the flight crew debated with the engineers over the apparent malfunction and whether they should turn the system off and the pilots take manual control, or whether to allow the system to continue guiding the plane. After a short discussion, they decided that the plane had plenty of reserve fuel, and allowing the system to continue flying the plane toward the final destination, and seeing where it actually ended up, would prove beneficial when they started analyzing what went wrong with the guidance system. SO, the system continued flying the plane until it detected it had arrived at the designated coordinates for the pilots to resume control of the approach and landing in LA. When the pilots and navigator actually determined their position, they were shocked to find that they were PRECISELY where they were supposed to be-- after landing, they determined that a weather system had moved in unexpectedly and kicked up higher winds aloft from a different direction than anticipated, and the system had detected that it was drifting downwind off the prescribed flight path due to the higher winds, and had corrected for the unanticipated conditions by altering the heading slightly to get back on the flight path and remain there by flying "into the wind" for the remaining part of the trip.

Now, this was the late 50's... the same technology basically that took us to the Moon on Apollo, or that can guide a dummy nuclear warhead reentry vehicle launched from California to impact through an upright sheet of plywood placed on Kwajalein atoll in the eastern Pacific Ocean 7000 miles away in missile test launches today. Now with GPS and correction signals, we can get millimeter accuracy in self-guided farm equipment, and with increases in computer power and wi-fi connection of computers, the combine's autosteer system can link with the auger cart tractors and steer BOTH machines at precisely the same speed and in perfect formation to unload on the go with nobody touching the controls in either the combine or tractor. NH already has balers equipped with isobus controls that the baler computer talks to the tractor computer and automatically upshifts or downshifts the tractor as needed to keep the baler at full capacity at all times regardless of field conditions.

The technology of the future is going to be even more amazing, I'm sure.

BUT, all that said, I still wonder how practical it will really be... I could see someone turning one of these tractors loose with a disk or chisel plow or whatever and just letting it run all day and night and stuff to cover as many acres as possible... so long as a bearing doesn't go out and the disk ends up continued to be pulled by the tractor until it totally self-destructs... things like that. The technology to detect whether the tool is adjusted right for the conditions or judge if it's doing a good job, or spot problems like bearings going out, or a rock wedging between disk blades and locking up a disk gang, or a disk arbor bolt breaking and scattering blades and spools across who knows how many acres before it stops... that's a LOT harder, if it's even possible with current technology, and it won't come cheap even if it is. That's where a GOOD OPERATOR (notice I said "good OPERATOR", not some trained monkey "tractor driver"-- there IS a difference!) comes in... a GOOD operator watches his implement and judges what kind of job it's doing... looks for things that might be going wrong, or has gone wrong, and stops ASAP and corrects the issue or makes the decision to head back to the shop for repairs, hopefully before MORE damage is done to the machine by operating with a bearing out or something broken or whatever. Sure, you COULD turn loose an autonomous tractor with a disk behind it and program it to go disk a couple hundred acre field, fold and go on to the next one, do a couple thousand acres over a couple days running round the clock... BUT, if a bearing goes out in the first 20 acres and it keeps going until the disk gang is demolished, and scatters parts over a hundred acres and drags the disk over another hundred acres before it's discovered, what has that gained you?? I've run sprayers and had a nozzle clog up here and there and catch it, usually when I start the next pass, because as an OPERATOR I make it a point to glance at every nozzle along the boom when I turn the sprayer on for the next pass, looking for any "gaps" in the nozzle patterns indicating a plugged nozzle. Every so often, I jump off and turn the center section on for a few seconds and go look to make sure the ones I can't see, directly behind the sprayer that cannot be seen from the cab, are spraying properly. That's what a good operator does-- and what a computer cannot do. I guess you could install a $10,000 camera system and sensors everywhere and a computer with detection logic programmed in to "watch" everything and stop the operation if a malfunction like that were detected... say like turning one of these autonomous tractors loose pulling a corn planter, with a computer link between the planter monitor and the tractor's guidance computer, programmed to stop and "call for help" when a stopped up seed tube or loss of vacuum to a particular meter, or a row runs out of seed, causes a row to quit planting properly... BUT, see, there's the rub-- with enough sensors and programming you can make the tractor capable of detecting whether everything is alright to continue or not, and make the system know when to "stop and call for help", but it CANNOT fix anything on its own, other than possibly on-the-fly adjustments (which adds another layer of complexity and cost).

SO, I guess the BTO's will soon be able to get by with having a fleet of autonomous tractors and equipment, and a couple Mexicans to run their butts off in pickups, running out to whatever field a particular autonomous rig happens to be in when it "calls for help" and needs a rock picked out of a disk gang that's dragging up a yard of dirt in front of it, or when a bearing locks up or a disk gang bolt breaks, or when the sprayer needs refilled and another batch of chemical mixed up, or the planter needs a seed tube unplugged or the crud brushed off a row sensor, or needs another load of seed put into the planter... Thing is, it's STILL gonna require guys "babysitting" the machines and going out to fix whatever problem it has that made it stop and call for help, because until they replace Pedro with R2D2, SOMEONE is STILL going to have to get down in the dirt and heat to fix whatever's wrong, load more chemical or seed, etc. etc. etc...

IMHO, if you're going to have to have "Pedro" out there running around in a pickup or seed tender or chemical tanker or nurse tank truck or whatever, you might as well have him in the tractor cab riding along and monitoring everything firsthand, even if the autosteer is doing most of the work... that way he's right there when it needs refilled or repaired...

And, like I said... when it comes down to practicality, which is cheaper?? $200,000 worth of automation and sensors and programming and wiring and all that stuff, which is just THAT MUCH MORE TO GO WRONG, or just paying Pedro $14 bucks and hour to operate the friggin machine in the first place?? The more automation you have, the more there is to go wrong... How are guys gonna like it when they have a three-quarters of a million dollar "smart tractor" pulling a "smart implement" loaded with sensors on it sitting and calling for repairs because some sensor or other dropped out and the thing can't tell if it's working right or not, and so its programming tells it to "park and call for help"... We all know how bad electrical gremlins can be with the existing systems we have now... what happens when a plug rattles loose or something goes haywire and it screws up and misapplies or misplants or whatever a 200 acre field or something?? How much will THAT end up costing, over and above the cost of the friggin' over-complicated machine in the first place??

I can see the day when drones will be as common in fields as tractors are now, but that's probably a couple decades off... I can see them doing specialized jobs with specialized equipment, probably small-scale devices, but dozens of them working on a huge field, drawing their own chemicals and/or seed and water from bulk tanks autonomously and returning where they left off to continue doing what they're doing, but until they're capable of doing that, I don't see these big monster robot tractors pulling monster tools still reliant on human intervention every time some little thing goes wrong as being any more practical or efficient than just having a "man in the loop". Maybe for some things that don't require much "smarts" or whatever-- robot tractors pulling grain carts for instance (but loading trucks-- gee, there's another thing that's gonna need a ton of computer power to accomplish correctly)... maybe disking or something like that where if the thing screws up, nothing "bad" really happens (other than maybe tearing something up worse due to it continuing to run with a bearing out or a broken part). But doing CRITICAL jobs like planting or spraying without human help-- I don't see it. I wouldn't trust it. And if you DID wire the thing up with enough sensors to "ensure the job is done right" and IF (BIG IF) they can program the thing well enough to KNOW if it's doing a job correctly OR NOT, and either correct the problem or call for help, well, it's gonna cost a FORTUNE...

It's not like a driverless 18 wheeler that you load a Conex box on it in San Diego and program it to drive to Chicago... with it programmed to stop at fueling centers along the way and call for help if it breaks down along the way... I can see that happening, I can see the perceived cost savings and added productivity being very lucrative to the trucking industry and I can see where there would be a push to adopt such technology, if approved legally. BUT, these problems are MINISCULE beside trying to get a crop planted properly or chemical applied properly or the soil worked up correctly in widely varying conditions and with about a thousand things that could go wrong, from blown hydraulic hoses to getting stuck in a wet spot in the field, etc.

Later! OL J R


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Autonomous truck drivers may be an improvement over the current crop and their distractions.....there are way too many people getting run over by big trucks, a lot of times in the same lane and never apply the brakes.....2 times in the last month here.
One farmer on a JD tractor followed by his hired hand in a red pickup with hazards on.....semi never even tapped the brakes...ran over the truck and into the tractor and killed the farmer. Two days ago, a school bus was hit in the rear by a semi on I-75 and killed a 16 yr old HS student, seriously injured many more.......idk....too many distractions?


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

As a systems developer for 50 years, I will not trust ANY piece of software implicitly!!! Period!

All too many times, I've seen software developed by "teams" that accounted for 99 44/100% of the situations, but not the last one special circumstance, often in a rarely used or error recovery function.

Testing error recovery code is excruciatingly difficult. You have to be able to identify the problem, enumerate it, then have a multiple levels of depth for what to do. (If this AND this go wrong, what do I do?)

Further, there was not a piece of software that I developed that did not have a back door or shutdown mechanism of some sort in it because a) my customers sometimes didn't pay their bill, b) I needed special access to resolve problems, c) I needed to do systems maintenance or d) it was a customer I didn't trust. (And that code was usually buried so deep that even I couldn't find it.)

There is no substitution for good judgement and being able to think on the fly.

Ralph


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Yep too many druggies driving big rigs.....too many druggies on the road period, but when they are attempting to navigate big rigs it ends up like a runaway train many times.

Regards, Mike


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

My new truck has forward (and rearward) collision monitoring, shuts off cruise control on forward, while vibrating the seat (have not tested the auto-braking part and have no plans to intentionally do so). Auto collision features could be a good thing for semi's, some of those guys probably push the limits (little or no sleep). In their defense, I have seen a lot of drivers, go around a semi and pull into THEIR safe braking zone also.

As far as the tractor being computer driven, I go back to the dog poop story. Except I am thinking a plugged drain tile, with a tractor exported half way or more to China. But of course and in-experienced so called 'operator' could do the same I guess.

Larry


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

you know it the thing what was science fiction 30 years ago are mundane today.the thing of the driverless truck, that a bit of a worry, I have enough trouble with me and the other idiots on the road without Robo truck out there. And what would the roadhouse do .no steak and eggs for drivers.and who fuels the truck up fix tryes,and tell very unbelievable stories in roadhouse. Mind you we do in oz have one road across to perth that doesn't have a turn on it for at least 200 miles


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

I don't know about driver less trucks. What happens if there is an accident; I can see big lawsuits coming from that, and you know they are going to go for the one with the deepest pockets. The only ones that will win are the attorney's.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Read an article about a year ago where a guy did this himself to a tractor. Used it to run grain cart when combining or a set of harrows or something when seeding. Said he didn't really have any problems with it but still wanted to be in tbe same field so he could keep an eye on it.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

CowboyRam said:


> I don't know about driver less trucks. What happens if there is an accident; I can see big lawsuits coming from that, and you know they are going to go for the one with the deepest pockets. The only ones that will win are the attorney's.


Nothing new about that cowboy.....they always win because they are in a win/win situation


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Wheres the fun in driver less tractors. Half the fun is being able to get behind the wheel of a piece of equipment.


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

Ha lawyers never meet won worth feeding .the world would be a lot better without them


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

We better leave the lawyer post alone or it might out do the one on horse people.buy the way vol what post has had the most reply to.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Waldo said:


> We better leave the lawyer post alone or it might out do the one on horse people.buy the way vol what post has had the most reply to.


Now, don't go getting me started n lawyers....Ooops, too late!!!

Lawyers are trained deal killers. They do everything possible to queer a deal. Have had just one that took the attitude of helping me get a deal done; the rest just charged me to tell me what I couldn't do.

The USA has 70% of the lawyers in the world...and produces 70% of the garbage. Any coincidence?

Ralph


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

We must have the other 30%


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## Waldo (Apr 29, 2016)

We must have the other 30% rjmoses


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I suspect the farmers that will be buying these driverless tractors at first will be farmers that ride a desk or just ride around in a pickup managing workers.


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## NebTrac (Aug 12, 2014)

Isn't this what started the "Matrix"?


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I wonder what it is like to hook the cabless tractor up to a piece of equipment from an ipad? As well all know sometimes hook up can take a couple of minutes to an hour. Now imagine that using an ipad to try and get the drawbar in the right place.


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## Orchard6 (Apr 30, 2014)

Something old is new again! 

Nearly 80 years ago IH had a 10-20 that was driven the same way, but the IPad took up a whole lot more room!


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> Autonomous truck drivers may be an improvement over the current crop and their distractions.....there are way too many people getting run over by big trucks, a lot of times in the same lane and never apply the brakes.....2 times in the last month here.
> One farmer on a JD tractor followed by his hired hand in a red pickup with hazards on.....semi never even tapped the brakes...ran over the truck and into the tractor and killed the farmer. Two days ago, a school bus was hit in the rear by a semi on I-75 and killed a 16 yr old HS student, seriously injured many more.......idk....too many distractions?


I have been in the trucking biz for 30 yrs, myself have over 2.5 million miles wreck free , most have been pulling a long haul cow pot. Drivers are distracted by all the incab devices, .I chew their ass out if they get in my lane ,I tell'em I share the road but not my lane *(^&%$#^ . It is a problem with all on the road looks like to me .I hate to hear any wreck,I have seen several. I have a set of real train horns mounted on right side for the idiots, seen many throw that cell phone down and drive too . Amazing how that gets their attention .bahahaha


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