# Thoughts on prospective set up



## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Hello everyone I am new to the forum and new to baling hay. We have a family farm of a little over 50 acres between two pieces of property that we do small square bales of horse hay. In the past we have always paid someone to come out and bale the hay for us and we just picked it up and stored it, kept some for our horses and sold the rest. The last two years it has been a pain getting scheduling done to get it cut, flipped and baled so I think it is time to get our own equipment. I need to have it all bought and ready for spring cutting. We are on a little bit of a budget but I wanted to see what you all thought about the equipment we are looking at. I was driving all over North Carolina looking at equipment but have recently gone down to the local tractor dealer to help and to save me some time I am letting them do some looking for me and since they will test and garantee the used equipment I think I will buy through them, so far they seem pretty honest and reliable as they said "since you are new even if you dont buy it from us come by and let us know what you are looking at and we will help determine if it is right for you and not too much money". I also spent about 3 hours with their mechanics today learning pro's and cons and maintenance on the different pieces and how to work on them. They seem to want to earn our business and that is pretty rare now.

So on to the tractor and equipment. The prices I note are in negotiation and will go down but since I am new I wanted to get some input on pricing, durability and usability. Am I getting a good deal, will the equipment be sufficient? etc. I thank you for any information and assistance you can provide.

Tractor: Oliver 1365 59HP PTO with Front end loader (not garanteed yet have not seen tractor) $5000

Baler: New Holland 273 good condition faded paint, some rust $2000

Tedder: NH ?? forgot to look at model 10' $1300

Rake: NH 258 $2000

Cutter: NH 616 $4000


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'd look for a different tractor. Those fiat-built Olivers are rare, and not in a good way. The rest seems reasonable in pricing if it's in decent condition.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> I'd look for a different tractor. Those fiat-built Olivers are rare, and not in a good way. The rest seems reasonable in pricing if it's in decent condition.


What were the issues with the Oliver? I really like the price  My requirements are about 60HP and a front end loader, I dont know what I can find that I can afford if it is a name brand. The budget is the hard part as I only have about 6k to devote to the tractor and dont have a way to go far to get it. I get to buy the tractor and am splitting the rest with a family member.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I think the primary problem is availability of parts. If you google "oliver 1365 forums" you'll get quite a few threads about them. The majority are quite positive aside from them being odd to get parts for. Personally, I wouldn't want a tractor as my primary (and only) tractor if I was afraid that I'd be waiting weeks if something broke. If it were me, I'd look for something more common that was cheap but needed some work. Of course, that would require time, a place to work, and mechanical ability. You may or may not possess that combination. The Oliver will do the work that you need it to do.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree, go with Massey, Deere, ford, etc. Be very wary of equipment dealers, much like car dealers in alot of respects. There's a few in N.C. That come to mind......the prices seem ok. But I can assure you, they come with no warranty, almost better to buy from individuals you can talk to that operated the equipment. Sometimes you can get more honest answers out of them....sometimes not.

With that eq. You need to be handy with a wrench.....

Good luck and welcome to haytalk


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> I think the primary problem is availability of parts. If you google "oliver 1365 forums" you'll get quite a few threads about them. The majority are quite positive aside from them being odd to get parts for. Personally, I wouldn't want a tractor as my primary (and only) tractor if I was afraid that I'd be waiting weeks if something broke. If it were me, I'd look for something more common that was cheap but needed some work. Of course, that would require time, a place to work, and mechanical ability. You may or may not possess that combination. The Oliver will do the work that you need it to do.


I am pretty handy i've worked on cars since I was a kid but tractors are new to me. I can wrench and weld and hold my own and probably figure most of it out as far as that goes but I honestly dont have the spare time to get a tractor that needs a bunch of work, and I dont have a good dry non dusty place to do it in. I will keep looking for some more common brands to see what I can find.



somedevildawg said:


> I agree, go with Massey, Deere, ford, etc. Be very wary of equipment dealers, much like car dealers in alot of respects. There's a few in N.C. That come to mind......the prices seem ok. But I can assure you, they come with no warranty, almost better to buy from individuals you can talk to that operated the equipment. Sometimes you can get more honest answers out of them....sometimes not.
> 
> With that eq. You need to be handy with a wrench.....
> 
> Good luck and welcome to haytalk


I understand what you mean about some dealers. Since he stated they would guarantee the equipment I would of course need to have it in writing, nothing is real unless its in print. I was a car salesman for a few years as well so I know how that goes. 

Just curious as to why which equipment you say I would need to be handy with a wrench? Besides the tractor that appears to be a concern is the other equipment prone to issues?


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## Hokelund Farm (Feb 4, 2014)

NH 616 mowers are 6' cut? Not sure how that would match up with a 258 rake.

We have a 9' haybine and a 258 rake. If I could find a 256 to trade with I would. When i just barely want to tip the row over the 258 is usually grabbing part of the next windrow.

I think the 256 would be more versatile with a 9' cut.

Up here there are plenty of 460, 560, 656, and 706's with loaders that would probably do a good job, especially lots with the gas motors. Diesels tend to be more expenseive here, but could still find one for $5000.

Not sure what you are cutting but a haybine with conditioner might be something to consider.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> What were the issues with the Oliver? I really like the price  My requirements are about 60HP and a front end loader, I dont know what I can find that I can afford if it is a name brand. The budget is the hard part as I only have about 6k to devote to the tractor and dont have a way to go far to get it. I get to buy the tractor and am splitting the rest with a family member.


Put that Oliver on a dyno to be sure it still delivers the same horsepower as when new. Engines as they age lose hp so makes sure you have enough to run the equipment. Also unless you are going to use it for plowing/tilling consider a gas tractor, they cost less and will do a great job for you.


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## broadriverhay (Jun 13, 2014)

A NH 273 baler is a very good machine, but good have a lot of time on it. I have 2 of those both of which have had the plunger bearings replaced . The bearings were completely worn out . However they are very reliable balers. I have since bought a NH 5070 and it has such a higher capacity. As far as the price $2000 doesn't seem too bad . I paid $2400 for one and $350 for the other. I baled probably 30,000 bales with the first before it crashed this year. I have not determined what went wrong yet. I may part it out if the failure is terminal.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Just curious as to why which equipment you say I would need to be handy with a wrench? Besides the tractor that appears to be a concern is the other equipment prone to issues?[/quote]

All of it......you will be turning wrenches, sounds like you may be up for the task however

Send a PM (private message) to farmercline on this forum ......not sure where you are in NC but he's around the hickory area, he can enlighten you to a few dealers that should be avoided. He's learned thru the school of hard knocks and hurt pocketbooks.......I'm sure he would love to share


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I would add that you will need maintenance funds in addition to being handy. That model baler is a good baler, but they all break down. 
Rakes are pretty simple, just need a few new teeth here and there.
I have never run that brand of tractor, or any tedder.
The most expensive purchase in haying is usually the learning curve. It just takes time.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Re: cheap tractors. In the last week, I've seem these for sale in southern PA. All with loaders. Have only seen pictures of the DB so I can't speak much about condition.

David Brown 1200 $4550
Long 510 4x4 $6000
Allis 170 $7000
Oliver 1650 $5000

I would consider the DB and Long to be lateral moves from a fiat-oliver (the long pretty much is a fiat-oliver) outside of the long being a 4x4. The Allis have their own issues. If the 1650 has over-under tranny I would take it over the rest in a heartbeat for haying. Parts availability on those American Olivers is quite good too.

The point is there are cheap tractors out there. Even if one doesn't have the ability to retrieve something far from home, there are people out there that will do it for reasonable prices. Maybe expand your search area a bit and see what you come up with.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

For $6000 you should be able to find a JD 1830, 2130 or whatever the US equivalent was. They would be my first choice for a cheap reliable baler tractor in your price range. the rabbit/turtle ( hi/low) really makes these nice for square baling and raking. You would be surprised how fuel efficient those tractors are, 10 gallons is a long days work. They have a good 3pth also, and excellent power steering.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

With hi/low and loader, you wouldn't find one here for that money. Not sure about the OP's area.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

carcajou said:


> For $6000 you should be able to find a JD 1830, 2130 or whatever the US equivalent was. They would be my first choice for a cheap reliable baler tractor in your price range. the rabbit/turtle ( hi/low) really makes these nice for square baling and raking. You would be surprised how fuel efficient those tractors are, 10 gallons is a long days work. They have a good 3pth also, and excellent power steering.


Nebraska test on a JD 2030 doesn't quite agree(3.4 GPH @ pto) with your approximate 1 gallon per hour fuel consumption. Even a JD 2150 with a 3 cyl engine doesn't get close to 1 GPH. JD tractor models of the same era you mentioned can turn into a "hyd nightmare" if a hyd component fails.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Re: cheap tractors. In the last week, I've seem these for sale in southern PA. All with loaders. Have only seen pictures of the DB so I can't speak much about condition.
> 
> David Brown 1200 $4550
> Long 510 4x4 $6000
> ...


Do you have links to those tractors or what websites are best to find these on?


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> With hi/low and loader, you wouldn't find one here for that money. Not sure about the OP's area.


It seems any JD in this area with a loader starts at about 10k minimum. I think I saw one for 9k once


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Welcome to HT! 
Having been buying, used equipment for some time. I can guarantee that beauty is only skin deep! As mentioned above plan on added funds for parts and allow yourself time for learning the equipment, then repairing it BEFORE you have hay down with rain on the way. If you haven't already make friends with other hay farmers that are close. When something does go wrong it could save your crop. As well they in turn might reach out to you. To add to this, perhaps you can make arrangements for a local to do all your mowing, take the money saved and make better initial investment in the other equipment. Not saying the equipment you mentioned is bad! 
How many acres are you doing? You mentioned 50 acres, is that all hay land? 10 aces with one tractor is one thing, 50 is a whole different story. don't be surprised if you start wanting a second tractor. Could be less HP for raking and tedding, or pulling a wagon. 
A good relationship with a dealer is important, however if they do give you a guarentee on used equipment I would be surprised that they are going to be in your field when a piece of equipment breakes for free. On the other hand you buy a new tractor from them and finance it, it breaks they better be there ASAP with a loaner. 
Just some thoughts, not knowing all the details.
Cheers,


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I use tractorhouse.com and fastline.com when looking for equipment. When somebody locally is selling something, I generally look for the model on those sights to get a feel for the national going rate and what the local rates might be.

tractorhouse is my favorite.

Ralph


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

DSLinc1017 said:


> Welcome to HT!
> Having been buying, used equipment for some time. I can guarantee that beauty is only skin deep! As mentioned above plan on added funds for parts and allow yourself time for learning the equipment, then repairing it BEFORE you have hay down with rain on the way. If you haven't already make friends with other hay farmers that are close. When something does go wrong it could save your crop. As well they in turn might reach out to you. To add to this, perhaps you can make arrangements for a local to do all your mowing, take the money saved and make better initial investment in the other equipment. Not saying the equipment you mentioned is bad!
> How many acres are you doing? You mentioned 50 acres, is that all hay land? 10 aces with one tractor is one thing, 50 is a whole different story. don't be surprised if you start wanting a second tractor. Could be less HP for raking and tedding, or pulling a wagon.
> A good relationship with a dealer is important, however if they do give you a guarentee on used equipment I would be surprised that they are going to be in your field when a piece of equipment breakes for free. On the other hand you buy a new tractor from them and finance it, it breaks they better be there ASAP with a loaner.
> ...


We figure between the two pieces it will be about 35 - 40 acres of hay. We know we will need another tractor soon but we need to get started with something first. Hopefully I can meet a few locals on here. We are transplants from other areas and so far its a pretty tight knit area. I usually get looked at cross eyed because I dont know the XXX family down the road. 

Spending time with the Mechanics at this dealer was a big help. And hopefully they will let me come down to learn a little more with them on repairs.

By the way I would much prefer a Massey or NH, so far I just cant find one in my price range. Eventually I will buy a NEW tractor with a cab and AC and it will be one of those two. Aww I can dream right?

Edit: I know I will need to learn the equipment, heck I need to learn to drive a tractor (I've driven forklifts, cranes, backhoes etc but they are all a little different), that is kind of why I want to act pretty quickly. I will most likely be breaking some bales and testing everything out and getting my settings right as well.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

So let me pose this question, going through tractor house there are so many brands, I did a nationwide search for tractor with loader .. OMG. What brands or models do I absolutely need to stay away from for my purpose?


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> We have a family farm of a little over 50 acres between two pieces of property that we do small square bales of horse hay.
> 
> I wanted to get some input on pricing, durability and usability. Am I getting a good deal, will the equipment be sufficient? etc. I thank you for any information and assistance you can provide.
> 
> ...


Since you are already baling this property, you should have a good idea as to the yields to be expected. I will say that 50 acres of hay can be a lot of hay and I think you will be pushing the equipment you listed to get it done. One thing you didn't mention is how you are planning to get the hay out of the field.

I do not have any experience with Oliver tractors, but as far as the rest of the equipment, the price seems to be in line with what I would expect, but as with all used equipment, it really depends upon condition.

My main suggestions would be to consider a wheel rake instead of the rollabar rake and a four basket tedder instead of the two basket model. Both of these suggestions are based on speed rather than the quality of equipment you mentioned.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

How many times do y'all bale the fields in a season?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> So let me pose this question, going through tractor house there are so many brands, I did a nationwide search for tractor with loader .. OMG. What brands or models do I absolutely need to stay away from for my purpose?


What dealers are close to you.....stay with those manufactures for parts and service help.....


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

RockmartGA said:


> Since you are already baling this property, you should have a good idea as to the yields to be expected. I will say that 50 acres of hay can be a lot of hay and I think you will be pushing the equipment you listed to get it done. One thing you didn't mention is how you are planning to get the hay out of the field.
> 
> I do not have any experience with Oliver tractors, but as far as the rest of the equipment, the price seems to be in line with what I would expect, but as with all used equipment, it really depends upon condition.
> 
> My main suggestions would be to consider a wheel rake instead of the rollabar rake and a four basket tedder instead of the two basket model. Both of these suggestions are based on speed rather than the quality of equipment you mentioned


We pick up the hay by hand right now. Truck with a trailer and the whole family walking along picking it up, stacking on trailer then stacking in the shed. Another reason we want our own equipment is with someone else doing it they want to do the entire thing in one go then move on. Where we would like to do it in sections. Picking up that much hay by hand in a hurry sucks.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> How many times do y'all bale the fields in a season?


Right now its only two, we are working with seed, fertilizing and lime to get more yield. We got double yield after the last go round as the fields are much thicker. We are hoping to go to three times next year.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> We pick up the hay by hand right now. Truck with a trailer and the whole family walking along picking it up, stacking on trailer then stacking in the shed. Another reason we want our own equipment is with someone else doing it they want to do the entire thing in one go then move on. Where we would like to do it in sections. Picking up that much hay by hand in a hurry sucks.


Lol, you got that last sentence right.......hurry or not.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> Right now its only two, we are working with seed, fertilizing and lime to get more yield. We got double yield after the last go round as the fields are much thicker. We are hoping to go to three times next year.


Get a roller......


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> What dealers are close to you.....stay with those manufactures for parts and service help.....


The have Massey, Kioti (I like the name of that one as it was the name of an old Coyote I had out west), and I think there is a NH dealer a little further.



somedevildawg said:


> Lol, you got that last sentence right.......hurry or not.


Very true, it sucks either way, its dirty, it cuts and stabs its hot.... yup it sucks



somedevildawg said:


> Get a roller......


Sorry I am still new.. roller?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Some tractors of that vintage and HP range did not have category two three point hitches, which is what you need for the 616. It probably does but be sure the lower link balls are the same size as the 616 hitch pins. The rake may be a bit wide for the 7"10" cut of the 616, but if you ted your hay it will make no difference since the hay is all scattered out.

If this equipment is stretching the budget you might be better served to wait with the baler until a later date. This could increase the budget for a better tractor. Also, with used equipment you need reserve funds available for repairs, which you WILL have. Each piece may not require much, but it all adds up.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, you got that last sentence right.......hurry or not.


Ok, so...... Add flat wagons ( at least 3) to your budget and plan on stacking as it comes off the baler. 
Or get a baler with a kicker and plan on adding kicker wagons (at least 3) to your budget! 
Or plan on getting a tractor with a big enough loader to handle a hay accumulator. (Still plan on some sort of wagon / trailers to stack accumulated hay.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Gungeek, I only have one link for you. The rest of my list were ads out of the Lancaster Farming paper. It is online but I'm not sure which ads you can view without a subscription.

The DB:
http://frederick.craigslist.org/grd/5173632358.html

I do not want to completely discourage a beginner from having the goal of buying a NEW tractor. However, I'm going to anyway. Many people are concerned with the long term viability of new emissions technology. This may work itself out. It may not. If you are only doing 50 acres a few times per year, it will take you a very long time to wear out a brand new unit. In that case, you will be the one who finds out what is still serviceable in twenty years. Do you want to be that person? Additionally, once you start "investing" in your own equipment, you will also have to begin learning about depreciation schedules. Many experts will tell you that you shouldn't buy something that you can't wear out within a 5-7 year depreciation window. Many farmers, including members of this forum, will also say they'd rather have a couple of good used tractors instead of one new one. Having two would give you a "spare" in case one would break. It would also allow you to run more than one at once anytime that you have more than one operator available.

Realistically, you would be well served to set your tractor goal as a good used unit anywhere from about 1975 to 2000. That would depend on condition and which particular model and what features you decide that you have to have. Tou could buy two of those (or more) for the same money as one new one and be much happier and further ahead.

If you want the experience of buying your first new piece of farm machinery, I would suggest that you focus that effort on your baler and/or an accumulator or other bale retrieval device. Knowing that you can get your hay baled without breaking down is a far greater comfort than the difference between a tractor cab that's new and one from 1990.

All that said, we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here considering your budget. For specific models to look at or which to avoid, I would first focus on your budget and which models will be available to you within that. Then, turn to the power of the internet. Once again, googling "tractor xxx" and "forums" will get you loads and loads of opinions on whichever model you might be looking at. Soon you'll know whether you want to avoid or attack. You will find out the strong and weak points. Some people will have opinions that are merely opinion but most will have experience to back it up. You can certainly pose a new question here too if you're not finding what you need or want even more info.

I think there was something else I wanted to add but I've rambled long enough that I have no idea what it was.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> We pick up the hay by hand right now. Truck with a trailer and the whole family walking along picking it up, stacking on trailer then stacking in the shed. Another reason we want our own equipment is with someone else doing it they want to do the entire thing in one go then move on. Where we would like to do it in sections. Picking up that much hay by hand in a hurry sucks.


Google "pop up hay loader". Piece of equipment that you connect to your trailer and lifts the bale off the ground onto the trailer. One person driving and one or two people stacking. You can probably find a good used unit for $500 (probably less).

I might add that if you put side rails on your trailer, you can just let the loader dump into the trailer, kinda like having a bale kicker. It is a pain in the @*&^ to dislodge and stack in the barn, but it makes getting it out of the field a one person job.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Sorry I am still new.. roller?

A round baler.....much faster to get the hay up and geT off the field, could rebale if needed.....I couldn't do without a roller. When Mother Nature gives you three to four days from cut to bale, you'll need a round baler......budget around 5k for a decent one.....


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Doing 50 acres will yield somewhere around 5-10,000 bales on the first cutting. I use two EZ Trail bale baskets that pull directly behind the baler. Each basket will hold about 100 bales. One basket is hooked behind the baler and one is on the way to the barn. At the barn, it gets dumped on the ground and heads back to the field.

This requires one person baling, one hauling, and a crew of 2-4 kids at the barn moving and stacking.

Bale baskets save 50% of the labor, i.e., picking up in the field.

Ralph


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

What county in NC are you from.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> Sorry I am still new.. roller?
> 
> A round baler.....much faster to get the hay up and geT off the field, could rebale if needed.....I couldn't do without a roller. When Mother Nature gives you three to four days from cut to bale, you'll need a round baler......budget around 5k for a decent one.....


I know they are easier in the long run but the price point is also much lower and our existing customers want square. We dont want to do round bales.



rjmoses said:


> Doing 50 acres will yield somewhere around 5-10,000 bales on the first cutting. I use two EZ Trail bale baskets that pull directly behind the baler. Each basket will hold about 100 bales. One basket is hooked behind the baler and one is on the way to the barn. At the barn, it gets dumped on the ground and heads back to the field.
> 
> This requires one person baling, one hauling, and a crew of 2-4 kids at the barn moving and stacking.
> 
> ...


Man I sure wish we were getting that much... we are still working on getting the fields thick. Its going to take some time to get that yield.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

cornshucker said:


> What county in NC are you from.


Lincoln


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

One thing I would suggest is to forego 4 wheel drive, unless you have seriously steep country, or are figuring on some serious tillage! I have a 42 PTO HP 2 wheel drive tractor & a 62 PTO HP 2 wheel drive tractor (both have loaded rear tires), and never have had a problem getting the job done with them. I run a NH 570 baler and 16'-18' kicker wagons, also an 8' 3" discbine! Staying with 2 wheel drive should save you $1,500 to $2,000 on even an older tractor.

YMMV, HTH, Dave

Edit: Check out my equipment lineup below this post.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I thank you all for your input thus far, I am looking for other tractors again cause I think I am scared out of the Oliver. Here are a few other tractors I am looking at now. If you guys can give advise good/bad/ugly it will be appreciated. I am also searching other forums for details on these. Also another question what kind of hours are too many for a tractor?

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9425293- Ford 5000

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9646771- Ford 5000 a little rough?

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9610345- IH 70

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9572743- IH 574

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9683611- JD 1640 needs work.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9131471- JD 4020 no loader

AND

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9673533- MF Super 90


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I know they are easier in the long run but the price point is also much lower and our existing customers want square. We dont want to do round bales.

I completely understand......one thing you will learn however, it ain't always what WE want to do.....it always leads back to Mother Nature. Hay that has been rained on significantly has no value for the horsey customer in squares......get it up and out and get some of your $ back from the cattle guys. If I had to only square bale (my preferred method) I could not do it......you will live and learn but I can assure you, you may not want a round baler but you need a round baler......especially with 50 acres and some of it being poor.....whatcha gonna do with that that's not so good? Still gotta cut, rake, and bale it.....might as well get er done with a roller....no value to speak of for poor square bales of hay....at least not here..


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> I know they are easier in the long run but the price point is also much lower and our existing customers want square. We dont want to do round bales.
> 
> I completely understand......one thing you will learn however, it ain't always what WE want to do.....it always leads back to Mother Nature. Hay that has been rained on significantly has no value for the horsey customer in squares......get it up and out and get some of your $ back from the cattle guys. If I had to only square bale (my preferred method) I could not do it......you will live and learn but I can assure you, you may not want a round baler but you need a round baler......especially with 50 acres and some of it being poor.....whatcha gonna do with that that's not so good? Still gotta cut, rake, and bale it.....might as well get er done with a roller....no value to speak of for poor square bales of hay....at least not here..


So far knock on wood, we have not lost a field to rain yet. I know it will happen. I wouldnt say the hay is poor, just not real thick in some places. We control the weeds pretty. I understand what you are saying, and I will stay open to getting one a little down the road.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> I know they are easier in the long run but the price point is also much lower and our existing customers want square. We dont want to do round bales.
> 
> I completely understand......one thing you will learn however, it ain't always what WE want to do.....it always leads back to Mother Nature. Hay that has been rained on significantly has no value for the horsey customer in squares......get it up and out and get some of your $ back from the cattle guys. If I had to only square bale (my preferred method) I could not do it......you will live and learn but I can assure you, you may not want a round baler but you need a round baler......especially with 50 acres and some of it being poor.....whatcha gonna do with that that's not so good? Still gotta cut, rake, and bale it.....might as well get er done with a roller....no value to speak of for poor square bales of hay....at least not here..


He's on a tight budget. Hiring any necessary round baling should be his first choice.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Well now I am looking at some JD 3020 tractors, we will see where this goes from there.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

My advice, stay away from JD for the reason that they are the MOST expensive resale tractors. With your budget I'd look at other makes. I'm NOT trying to disparage JD they are excellent tractors.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

GunGeek, the models you listed would probably all do what you would need. Among those, my personal preference would be the Fords. However, with those 5000s you have to be aware of whether they are early or late versions and what transmission they have. There are several variations and they have far different desirability.

I see Trilium's point about the cost of JD equipment, but you only need to buy one. Even if the average price on them is higher, it doesn't mean you won't run into a good deal on one.

What is your primary need for the loader and is that need immediate? If you feel you need it right away, I would strongly suggest you only look at tractors that already have loaders installed. Especially in the price range you're looking at, it will almost always cost more to buy tractor and loader separately than together. If you don't need the loader immediately, you could consider a tractor without a loader in order to put more money into a better tractor up front, but you would still need to be aware of the expenses in adding a loader later.

I'm going to list some models that I think are most likely to be found in your price range (and in decent condition) and also good tractors for your purpose. Like I said earlier, though, you only need to buy one. So, if you find a good deal on something else, these certainly aren't a complete list.

MF 165 or 175, especially with multi-power

Ford 5000 or 7000, especially dual power. Generally avoid select-o-speeds

Oliver 1650 or 1655, prefer over/under, hydra power still good

IH 574 or similar or 560 but make sure they have 3pt and not fast hitch


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

8350HiTech said:


> Many experts will tell you that you shouldn't buy something that you can't wear out within a 5-7 year depreciation window.


First I have heard of this theory. Where does it come from?


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Snooping around Charlotte craigslist, I found these.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grq/5209371841.html

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/grd/5199999412.html


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> First I have heard of this theory. Where does it come from?


Simply, if you buy something that you can't wear out (and subsequently keep forever), you're taking your depreciation benefits and compressing them. If you keep it thirty years, you're still only getting the depreciation over a much shorter time. Now, if after the depreciation runs out on the tractor after five years and you want to buy a brand new baler in year six and a new rake in year 11 and a new truck in year 16 that's always a possibility. Or even in you're not going to buy all of that other stuff new someday, you can still reason that you want all of your depreciation over a certain few years if you know that for some reason your income is also going to be higher over those years. Depreciation management is definitely not a one-size-fits-all handbook.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

That makes Zero financial sense. If I already paid for it and depreciated it, now I am using for "free" so to speak.

It sounds like people who say they always want a mortgage so they can deduct the interest.Now instead of giving the gov $0.35 and keeping $0.65, they give the whole dollar to the bank.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

deadmoose said:


> That makes Zero financial sense. If I already paid for it and depreciated it, now I am using for "free" so to speak.
> 
> It sounds like people who say they always want a mortgage so they can deduct the interest.Now instead of giving the gov $0.35 and keeping $0.65, they give the whole dollar to the bank.


Obviously, it's paid for. But when your taxes jump one year because you no longer have anything left on your depreciation schedule, it will definitely make financial sense. Granted, paying taxes is prof that you're making money. One should still manage their depreciation to be a steady number to avoid those ebbs and flows.

The other thing that I should have mentioned in the first explanation is both real-world depreciation and taxable deprivation are working against you with long term ownership. You are losing real world depreciation as something ages and becomes obsolete. The same way a 5-year-old car with 100k miles is worth much more than a 20-year-old car with 100k miles, that happens with farm equipment too. If you update things more frequently, this curve is also smoothed out. That doesn't mean you should buy something brand new and sell it in five years even if it's barely broken in. It means you shouldn't have bought a new one to begin with, outside of the abnormally high income in one year scenario.

Equipment ownership is a combination of managing both types of depreciation. Clearly there are factors of reliability and comfort to consider, on addition to each individual's specific love of shiny paint. 
Also, the mortgage example doesn't work because real estate, unlike equipment, is generally appreciating instead of depreciating.

Ask your accountant next time you get a chance.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> Depreciation management is definitely not a one-size-fits-all handbook.


Depreciation is an "asset" that needs to be managed, just like field fertility, livestock, and equipment. Working it right can reduce/eliminate taxes. The tax code isn't 40,000 pages for no reason. I play the game just like the big boys---pay as little in taxes as is "legally" possible.

Ralph


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Snooping around Charlotte craigslist, I found these.
> 
> http://charlotte.craigslist.org/grq/5209371841.html
> 
> http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/grd/5199999412.html


Ok, given the choice between A JD 3020 and that AC 6060 at the same price both have loaders..which would you guys choose? I am going to inquire on the price of the MF, the 165 is a little smaller than I would like though. Although If I can get both for the price of one I might do that .


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tell us more about the 3020. What transmission, what loader? How is it plumbed (joystick? Rear remotes or power beyond port?) General condition, hours, tires... Hopefully it's diesel...

One thing about the Allis, it has the ROPS and canopy. I like anything I can get to avoid the sun baking me.

Also, they may have the same asking price but you never if one seller is much more motivated than the other.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> Tell us more about the 3020. What transmission, what loader? How is it plumbed (joystick? Rear remotes or power beyond port?) General condition, hours, tires... Hopefully it's diesel...
> 
> One thing about the Allis, it has the ROPS and canopy. I like anything I can get to avoid the sun baking me.
> 
> Also, they may have the same asking price but you never if one seller is much more motivated than the other.


I dont know what transmission it has yet, The loader is a 158. I am waiting on the son to call me back right now. It is a diesel.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I got some information back on the JD 3020 it has 4050hrs on it. It looks like it has a PowerShift trans?





  








3020-3




__
GunGeek


__
Sep 8, 2015


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

Ayup, that's a power shift, says so right there!

Couple of thoughts:

You'll love the power shift!

The A-C may be a li'l newer, but only 4000 of them built! Might be a li'l harder to get parts, etc.

Is the 3020 tricycle or wide front?

The 3020 has just a tad more HP.

If you decide to upgrade, the JD will prolly have a better resale value.

JMHO, HTH, Dave

PS: I'd be looking for a late 5000, 5600 or 6600, but then, I'm partial to Blue!


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

So here is a few other pics of the JD. Let me know your thoughts as well. In talking with FarmerCline the loader is connected to the rear hyd ports on the JD. He said there might be another way to do it so I still have use of the rear ports for other equipment. I think I am down between the JD and the AC. I have to call back for more info on the AC after lunch. I called on the MF 165 but its a little out of my price range at 8k, it has less HP but has dual Hyd pumps. The AC is newer the JD is slightly more HP. I was comparing the prices on parts and they seem to be about the same. I doubt I would sell a tractor I would just get another later I think, I dont think it would hurt my feelings to have two or three on the farm. . The JD is 4 hours away from me while the AC is about 1.5. I only have a 1500 truck with a 14k tandem car hauler so I might need to pay someone to pick either up for me.





  








3020-4




__
GunGeek


__
Sep 8, 2015











  








3020-2




__
GunGeek


__
Sep 8, 2015











  








3020-1




__
GunGeek


__
Sep 8, 2015


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

You need a power beyond block to replumb the loader out of the rear remotes. They are available aftermarket. I would absolutely make that change. I'd probably also get a hydraulic splitter so that you'd have two rear remotes instead of one. Neither item is expensive or complicated. Buy the JD.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> You need a power beyond block to replumb the loader out of the rear remotes. They are available aftermarket. I would absolutely make that change. I'd probably also get a hydraulic splitter so that you'd have two rear remotes instead of one. Neither item is expensive or complicated. Buy the JD.


I will have to look that up. Why do you say the JD? Parts availability, hours??


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

That JD looks purty good......


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

GunGeek said:


> I will have to look that up. Why do you say the JD? Parts availability, hours??


Partially because of the powershift. Mostly because it's a popular old tractor that you could easily resell if you didn't like it or if you outgrow it.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Alright I am going to drive aways 4.5 hrs to go look at this thing... think a 02 chevy 1500 and a 16' 14k lb car hauler could pull it? Mostly flat land ???


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes. It will do it. Others will caution against it. Take it easy. You will make it home fine.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

8350HiTech said:


> You need a power beyond block to replumb the loader out of the rear remotes. They are available aftermarket. I would absolutely make that change. I'd probably also get a hydraulic splitter so that you'd have two rear remotes instead of one. Neither item is expensive or complicated. Buy the JD.


Sorry 8350 Hitech but JD didn't offer a PBY for that yr model 3020. I'll add that the loader isn't a 158 in fact it's not a JD. IMHO the LH mast boom pin on FEL leaves a little to be desired. One can attach FEL ind valve similar to photos utilizing either RS return line or ported filter cover for return oil


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Tx Jim said:


> Sorry 8350 Hitech but JD didn't offer a PBY for that yr model 3020. I'll add that the loader isn't a 158 in fact it's not a JD. One can attach FEL ind valve similar to photos utilizing either RS return line or ported filter cover for return oil


Wasn't sure. I saw that they weren't offered at the outset but I'm not good recognizing 20 series years from my phone. At least there's still a way it can be done!


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> Sorry 8350 Hitech but JD didn't offer a PBY for that yr model 3020. I'll add that the loader isn't a 158 in fact it's not a JD. IMHO the LH mast boom pin on FEL leaves a little to be desired. One can attach FEL ind valve similar to photos utilizing either RS return line or ported filter cover for return oil


Yes the owner said he was not sure if the loader was JD or not...

LH mast boom pin?


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

By the way I am all giddy about getting a tractor.. reminds me of buying my first car except better.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> Yes the owner said he was not sure if the loader was JD or not...
> 
> LH mast boom pin?


As I stated the loader isn't JD in fact I've never seen one similar to it. I've outlined the mast pin in a blue circle. Notice how sloppy the pin fits the hole.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> As I stated the loader isn't JD in fact I've never seen one similar to it. I've outlined the mast pin in a blue circle. Notice how sloppy the pin fits the hole.


Im going to go look at it tomorrow. Looks like someone threw a bolt in there instead of a pin. Couldnt I just replace it for a pin if its not wallerd out.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> Im going to go look at it tomorrow. Looks like someone threw a bolt in there instead of a pin. Couldnt I just replace it for a pin if its not wallerd out.


YES


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Tx Jim said:


> Sorry 8350 Hitech but JD didn't offer a PBY for that yr model 3020. I'll add that the loader isn't a 158 in fact it's not a JD. IMHO the LH mast boom pin on FEL leaves a little to be desired. One can attach FEL ind valve similar to photos utilizing either RS return line or ported filter cover for return oil


Noticed that too... If you pick up this old gal, be sure you replace that loader pin with something that's the correct size... not some extra long bolt someone pulled out of the bottom of the toolbox!

Later! OL JR


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Well I bought the tractor. When I got there the loader pin was already replaced. He said it broke as he noticed as he was taking pics and replaced it. One of the loader cylinders is leaking a bit.. other than that I drove it around for about an 30 mins to an hour. Clutch was recently replaced. You can tell he takes care of his equipment and so did his father. Really nice man, My dogs didnt even bark at him. I know sounds corney but it says a lot to me. Looking into haulers to get it home for me. Next steps is equipment

Ps....I BOUGHT A TRACTOR!!!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Good for you gun creek, looks like a good one, good to meet the fella you're buying equipment from as brief as it may be, you can get a feel for what kinda person he is generally. You'll like that power shift tranny.......enjoy!


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

So stupid question.... do I need to push the clutch in when I change between gears on this thing just like a car? I got the impression that I didn't need to but did anyway.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> So stupid question.... do I need to push the clutch in when I change between gears on this thing just like a car? I got the impression that I didn't need to but did anyway.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you don't have a "clutch". It is referred to as an "inching pedal."

Or was that on the Ford sos?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

No, you do not. That is what you bought a powershift for.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Ok that was the impression I got from reading on the trans and from the owner but it's not natural to me so habit made me do it.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You aren't the only one. I was talking to a neighbor with a brand new jd with hydraulic shuttle. News to him he didn't need to clutch when using the shuttle.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

So as you all know I traveled a bit to go look at and drive this tractor. But what I didn't tell you id's that we made this into a spur of the moment beach trip as well. We packed up our camper trailer and left within 2 hours of deciding to do this. My girl, my daughter and my dogs all load up. We get to the beach have some fun. Go look at and buy tractor, go back to the beach and have more fun. We leave out this morning everything going great. We get within 60 miles of home and the low coolant light comes on my 02 chevy. I immediately pull over and find the plastic connector piece on the heater core hose rotted and broke. So I rip off the plastic junk and just connect the hose to the core, start her up gtg.we go on our way again. 10 freaking miles down the road a semi truck honks at me, I look out my rear view and see me rear right trailer tire just shredding down the road. I pull over pissed off. In our haste to leave quick I forgot my tools and my jack. Although I did throw at extra spare for the truck in the bed. Luckily I purchased a roadside service plan when I bought the camper. So now we are all sitting on the side of the road waiting on all jack.... should be about 90 minutes.... but hey all least I'm getting all tractor.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Sounds like my luck.....


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## Shetland Sheepdog (Mar 31, 2011)

deadmoose said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you don't have a "clutch". It is referred to as an "inching pedal."
> 
> Or was that on the Ford sos?


Not sure on the JD power shift!
Ford called it an inching pedal on the Select-O-Speed!
On the farm, we called it a yarding pedal! LOL
The idea being that you only needed to use it when "inching" back to equipment or similar!


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

I feel for ya...

Reminds me of the time about 10 years ago when Betty and I went out to New Mexico and then down through El Paso and on down to Big Bend National Park. We were in the 96 F-150 and I noticed that the thing had started "cycling" on the temp needle (go up a little toward hot, maybe up to 3/4 of the way, then drop back down to half where it always sat-- classic sign of low coolant). I had topped her up a few times over the last few weeks but never could find any coolant leaks, so I figured it was just losing a little somehow, but with no leak-- meh...

SO, we get up in the mountains between Presidio and Big Bend-- it's like a 50 mile drive from Presidio til you even get to the GATES of Big Bend National Park, and then it's like 20 miles to the Park HQ. It's creeping up higher and higher all the time. I stop at HQ and add water, and Betty wants to drive up into the Chisos mountains to see if we can see any black bears... so we do. By the time we get up into the mountains, it's running hot. Add more water, STILL can't find any leaks, but hey-- maybe it's the altitude and work the truck is pulling the mountains... Fill her up and we leave.

Get back down, no problems, so we started heading north toward the park exit 26 miles north, and then another 75 miles to Marathon... NOTHING out there but cactus and rocks...

Halfway to the park north exit, we overheat bigtime... We've got a case of bottled water in the back and I've got a gallon jug or so of water from refilling the radiator at the HQ, but that's it... it's 13 mile walk back to the HQ, or 13 mile walk forward to the north gate... and NOBODY on the flippin road!

I start investigating and find the culprit-- a dinky little fuel line type hose connecting a fitting on the thermostat housing to the heated throttle body... I get my tools and start working on it...

Now, I have the BAD habit of cussing like a sailor when working on stuff and having to fight with it when stuff won't come apart or go back together right... Betty knows this and gently tries to calm me down, usually to no avail... she starts freaking out when I'm SWEET-TALKING the truck as I'm working on it... I managed to get the hose clamp off and luckily the hose failed RIGHT below the hose nipple, so I'm carefully cutting through the hose basically through the leaky spot, because they don't give you ANY extra hose and if I cut it shorter, it'll be TOO short to put back together... I have to stretch the hose like heck to get it back together anyway...

Betty thinks I'm flipping out because I'm sweet talking the truck instead of cussing it, but for me it was simple-- NO cell phone service, and I don't want to walk no 13 miles through the desert at night (it was maybe an hour or two til sundown) to get help...

FINALLY got the hose back on, filled the radiator with what water we had in the jug and all but about 3 of the bottles of water from the case of drinking water, so we have some if we DO have to walk out...

Nursed the truck the nearly 100 miles to Marathon, found a dinky station there where I bought a few feet of hose of various sizes, a few gallons of water, another flat of drinking water, and a couple gallons of antifreeze... Still had to go another 150 miles to even get a motel up in Fort Stockton, with basically NOTHING in between... (even ranch houses out there are 20 miles apart!)

Anyway, we made it into Fort Stockton and got a motel for the night. Next day we had a 750 mile trip back home to just west of Houston... somehow ended up with a shorted plug or wire that carbon tracked, because the truck would miss going downhill and run smooth going uphill...

Changed all that stuff when I got home and the truck ran fine...

Always something! OL JR


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> Now, I have the BAD habit of cussing like a sailor when working on stuff and having to fight with it when stuff won't come apart or go back together right... Betty knows this and gently tries to calm me down, usually to no avail... she starts freaking out when I'm SWEET-TALKING the truck as I'm working on it...


Oh believe me so do I, Alicia does the same thing and does get really concerned when I start talking sweet to things I am working on, as usually thats right before I start throwing stuff.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

The anticipation is killing me. It probably wont arrive home until Saturday.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Well its for sure I wont have it until Saturday afternoon. Then as soon as it gets delivered I have to leave it and go back to a festival we are working at. I have to leave to festival for delivery, leaving the o'lady and daughter at the festival and meeting the hauler. Clean up is at 4 at the festival so depending on what time it gets there I might get an hour or so to play with it while they work for me... LOL


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> Well its for sure I wont have it until Saturday afternoon. Then as soon as it gets delivered I have to leave it and go back to a festival we are working at. I have to leave to festival for delivery, leaving the o'lady and daughter at the festival and meeting the hauler. Clean up is at 4 at the festival so depending on what time it gets there I might get an hour or so to play with it while they work for me... LOL


That'll give you an hour to play with the controls and figure out what everything (somewhat) does......that'll give you material to think about while driving to the festival, as long as you're not stopped on the side of the road again......then you'll probably not think a thing bout it


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

GunGeek said:


> I thank you all for your input thus far, I am looking for other tractors again cause I think I am scared out of the Oliver.


Nothing wrong with a Oliver, just stay away from the rebranded imports. A 1600, 1650, 1750 or 1850 are great hay making tractors. Nice simple open center hydraulics and the transmissions are near indestructible. If you want something with more hydraulic capacity for an accumulator later look at any of the ones I listed but in a xx55 series.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> That'll give you an hour to play with the controls and figure out what everything (somewhat) does......that'll give you material to think about while driving to the festival, as long as you're not stopped on the side of the road again......then you'll probably not think a thing bout it


I already figured out the controls when I went to look at it and drove it for a while as well. Although I didnt start it, he did ... oops. I am not going to be able to sleep and I have to get up at 4am tomorrow.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

So the tractor is picked, I'll leave that alone, but amazed that with 50 acres and no iron horse.

Alright, down to business, I'm a seasoned grass farmer, I have cows so I can do something with my hay  All of my hay equipment is New Holland and I have the so called expertise of haying in North Carolina. First and foremost as a beginner, buy a 488 haybine, 256 rake, and pretty much any NH square baler will work. Save your money and don't buy a Tedder.

Cut your grass at about 5 inches above the ground and lay your windrow out as wide and flat. Bypass the gorgeous tall fluffy skinny windrows. You will have better cure times and the hay will be better. It will usually dry perfectly in 2-3 days. If you have an unusually thick crop and impending rain, find a neighbor to borrow a Tedder. I have never had to use a Tedder and don't own one but can borrow if necessary. I've been making hay wrong all these years, and now people are starting to do it like me.

I have mowed on Monday and raked/baled on Wednesday when it is dry and 90+ with a low in 80s and no dew. Usually its 4 days from start to finish, 5 if it's exceptionally thick or cool.

Oh and I prefer Rolabar rakes over wheels any day. Much better crop movement and no added dirt/debris in the hay. Single Rolabars take more time over the V wheels but you can always buy a NH 216.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

BWfarms said:


> So the tractor is picked, I'll leave that alone, but amazed that with 50 acres and no iron horse.
> 
> Alright, down to business, I'm a seasoned grass farmer, I have cows so I can do something with my hay  All of my hay equipment is New Holland and I have the so called expertise of haying in North Carolina. First and foremost as a beginner, buy a 488 haybine, 256 rake, and pretty much any NH square baler will work. Save your money and don't buy a Tedder.
> 
> ...


Hey thank you for the advise. We need a tedder for one area of the field in particular, it doesn't get but a few hours of full sun a day so we want to to ted that area. Since I have never seen one used here what is the benefit of a Haybine. I assume from my research it takes the place of a disc mower etc. They also appear much more expensive. I am on a budget so that may not be an option right now
.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Haybine is just the generic name of a mower/conditioner and it sounds better. A NH 488 is a 9'6" sickle bar cutter with rubber rollers to crimp stems. A used one is inexpensive, parts are readily available, and interchangeable with other models, and speeds up the drying times. I purchased a used one for $3000, it still has original chains and served me well. There are many different numbers but the variations are few and are still common.

No the disc cutter came after the sickle haybine. A lot of people have just a basic side disc cutter which is fine, but I'm always baling hay a day earlier. If they are baling the day I am, they usually have ted the hay and used more fuel than me. I also have a couple of narrow fields that are high yielding that get a little less sunlight than others. I say it's 60-70 yards from east to west. Never ted it and it dries just fine. One thing you can do is rake that small area the day before you bale in single rows. Then flip it over when you're ready to bale.

I prefer the sickle because it slices the grass unlike the disc that rips. Better re growth after a sickle mower. Sickles are slower and disc cut faster. Sickles knife replacement takes a little longer and there are more of them. Disc are faster and fewer to replace. Unless you are mowing rocks and trees, you are not going to have to change knives.

You can always come visit my barns and see that they are still standing. Haven't burned them down and boy does it give off a sweeter smell than a tobacco barn.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

BWfarms said:


> Haybine is just the generic name of a mower/conditioner and it sounds better. A NH 488 is a 9'6" sickle bar cutter with rubber rollers to crimp stems. Unless you are mowing rocks and trees, you are not going to have to change knives.


BWfarms

Haybine isn't a generic name. It's a Trademark name belonging to New Holland just the same as Mo-Co is a JD trademark name. I think a NH 488 is only a 9' 3'' please note photo. If OP cuts enough acres he will have service the blades on a disc cutter irregardless of obstructions encountered.


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

Well pardon me for being off by 3 inches as I wasn't looking at a spec sheet as I was writing. Yes I know you replace knives when they are dull and I forgot to insert the word frequently.

As far as haybine being generic. It's still a generic name for a mower conditioner even though it has been trademarked by New Holland. I've even heard people refer to the JD MoCo's as a haybine. Think about Bush Hog, I hear the words bush hog far more often than rotary cutter. Bush hog has become a generic term even though it is trademarked by Bush Hog. You gonna take suit about that against everybody that owns a King Kutter, Hardee, etc?

Definition of generic is a characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things; not specific.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I GOT IT, already fixed a part of the drive way. I think I need new batteries, had to boost it off to get it off the truck. Going to try a charger over night and see what I get. Also it appears I may have a different fluid leak. I ran around for a little bit 30 minutes then noticed a bit of smoking coming off of the right side just in front of the cab area. It appears to by hydraulic fluid. I pulled back to the barn and cut it off. There is some Foam material at the back there that is pretty wet, I think its leaking from the line going to the shift levers at the rear but not 100% sure yet, Have to get it started back up in the light to tell for sure. This was along haul for the tractor and I suppose it could be possible something loosened up. Trying to locate the exact spot is a little difficult. One more thing I noticed is that the air intake nut on top appears to be rusted tight and I cant get it off to take the top cover off any suggestions?


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Oh yeah he is me after I pulled it off the trailer.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Nut on the top of air cleaner actually just holds the pre-cleaner top on. You can use a 2X4 with a hammer to tap complete pre-cleaner off of tube.The actual air cleaner is under hood behind left screen in your photo. Below engine serial number 84,000 air cleaner should be oil bath & above that SN it's should be dry type.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> Nut on the top of air cleaner actually just holds the pre-cleaner top on. You can use a 2X4 with a hammer to tap complete pre-cleaner off of tube.The actual air cleaner is under hood behind left screen in your photo. Below engine serial number 84,000 air cleaner should be oil bath & above that SN it's should be dry type.


Thank you, I am reading the manuals I stayed up a little too late last night after being up at 330 and I dont think I absorbed any of it. Going back out to play with the tractor today.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Played with the JD a bunch more today. Had a visit with FarmerCline and talked with him for a while about the tractor, hay and equipment. Found the hydraulic leak and tightened a fitting to fix. I am going to go around and tighten all the fittings just to be safe. Going to change the oil. I need new batteries, going to look for those tomorrow. I think the brakes need some help so I am going to look into that. Also found a drip/fuel leak near or on the injector pump so I need to look into fixing that. I fixed a good chunk of our driveway today. Rolled over to 4054 from where I bought it at 4048.

OH I found out that the loader is apparently a JD loader, the man who owned got a JD 37 but it didn't fit so he made a mount that goes almost all the way around the tractor (front and sides) and made it fit. I got the manual for the 37 with the tractor as well and started asking some questions. That is the best we can find out anyway.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

BWfarms said:


> So the tractor is picked, I'll leave that alone, but amazed that with 50 acres and no iron horse.
> 
> Alright, down to business, I'm a seasoned grass farmer, I have cows so I can do something with my hay  All of my hay equipment is New Holland and I have the so called expertise of haying in North Carolina. First and foremost as a beginner, buy a 488 haybine, 256 rake, and pretty much any NH square baler will work. Save your money and don't buy a Tedder.
> 
> ...


Or do like I did an pick up a bridge hitch at the auction-- mine was homemade out of well pipe and a set of planter wheels, but it works and I only gave $125 bucks for it. Picked up a second 258 rake at the sale and did some work to it over the winter and now it's like new...

Works great! OL JR


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

There is a big used equipment auction this weekend that I might attend if for nothing else to attend an auction. I think they are pretty neat.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> OH I found out that the loader is apparently a JD loader, the man who owned got a JD 37 but it didn't fit so he made a mount that goes almost all the way around the tractor (front and sides) and made it fit. I got the manual for the 37 with the tractor as well and started asking some questions. That is the best we can find out anyway.


Sorry but I'm fairly confident that loader in your photo isn't a JD model 37. JD 37 loaders were built for utility tractors and if mounted as far to the rear of tractor as your photo then pipe connecting boom wouldn't clear hood, Also notice difference in how boom cylinder mounting area in each photo


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Tx Jim said:


> Sorry but I'm fairly confident that loader in your photo isn't a JD model 37. JD 37 loaders were built for utility tractors and if mounted as far to the rear of tractor as your photo then pipe connecting boom wouldn't clear hood, Also notice difference in how boom cylinder mounting area in each photo


Hmmm, so far I have not been able to find any numbers or stamps on the thing. I'll keep looking


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

As I previously stated notice how butt end of boom cylinders attach to "outside of mast" on a 37 loader compared to your loader. Granted lift cylinders could have been changed but factory boom cylinders were one way cylinders IE boom had no down pressure.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Yep its not that one.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I'm going to bring back this old thread as I am working on getting the equipment again and actually buying it. 

So here is what I currently have.

Tractor: 68 JD3020 DSL

Mower: NH 617 Disc Mower (Got for a good deal)

We also got an accumulator but no grapple yet the grapple comes later.

I still need a baler, a tedder and a rake.

As for the Baler:

I was looking at a hesston in line but I think its out of my price range and it is really far away. So I am scratching that off the list.

I found a 1992 NH 575 that I can get for around 7k that I really like. But it is a bit higher than I want to pay.

I have a guy offering me a NH268 along with another 268 parts machine for $1500. (he says he rebuilt the 268 insides he is getting out of the hay business)

I have found a bunch of NH 273 and 310 and 311 ranging from 2k to 4k.

My question on the baler is should I just spring for the 575? Is it worth the several thousand more than the 273s 268s etc?

Tedder:

Same guy offering the 268s has a hesston 3710 tedder for about $1250

(Same guy also offering a haybine 474 for $2500. )

Rake:

Looking at a NH 256 for around $1500.

Final question How do you think this equipment matches up?


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> Nebraska test on a JD 2030 doesn't quite agree(3.4 GPH @ pto) with your approximate 1 gallon per hour fuel consumption. Even a JD 2150 with a 3 cyl engine doesn't get close to 1 GPH. JD tractor models of the same era you mentioned can turn into a "hyd nightmare" if a hyd component fails.


Jim I know our gallons are are 15% larger but your right those numbers don't add up with what tractor data says. I do remember the 2 dad had only used 2 jerry cans of diesel a day on the square baler and 3 if it was hooked to a cultivator. One was a 74' the other a 78' model.

Do you remember what when wrong with the hydraulics? I still would like to buy one myself someday. Dad's were good ones, never back to the dealer the whole time he owned them.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> I'm going to bring back this old thread as I am working on getting the equipment again and actually buying it.
> 
> So here is what I currently have.
> 
> ...


You are comparing apples to grapes.

How mechanically inclined are you?

How my time do you have available for haying and equipment repair?

What are you doing with hay?

Why are you buying hay equipment anyway?

How many acres/cuttings/yield?

Different strokes for different folks.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Of course, trump card is budget.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Moose, I'm pretty mechanically inclined but I also don't want to be constantly working on something or buying parts so if one is less prone to that I would opt for that. I have time allotted for hay season and I can do repair when it needs done. We keep some of the hay for our horses and we sell the rest as horse hay. We are buying equipment because we have been having someone else do it for us for the past 15 years or so and it is hard to get them here when we need them as they do their own first then their buddies then we are last. At the start we are looking at about 30-40 acres and two to three cuttings per year. Mind you it is not thick but it is getting better. Also I would like to pick up doing a couple of the neighbors fields as well to help offset the cost of the equipment.

As far as budget we have a little more to play with than we did before. 7k is the absolute max I could pay for a baler although it wouldnt leave much for the remaining equipment but enough to get it.

I am also weighing in getting a less expensive baler and possible getting another small tractor instead of the really expensive baler.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> Moose, I'm pretty mechanically inclined but I also don't want to be constantly working on something or buying parts so if one is less prone to that I would opt for that. I have time allotted for hay season and I can do repair when it needs done. We keep some of the hay for our horses and we sell the rest as horse hay. We are buying equipment because we have been having someone else do it for us for the past 15 years or so and it is hard to get them here when we need them as they do their own first then their buddies then we are last. At the start we are looking at about 30-40 acres and two to three cuttings per year. Mind you it is not thick but it is getting better. Also I would like to pick up doing a couple of the neighbors fields as well to help offset the cost of the equipment.
> 
> As far as budget we have a little more to play with than we did before. 7k is the absolute max I could pay for a baler although it wouldnt leave much for the remaining equipment but enough to get it.
> 
> ...


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

While I cant afford a 10k baler I understand what you are saying completely. The 575 I found was 12k before Christmas and they have since reduced it. I have heard from several people that cheaping out on the baler is not the way to go. Go light on the other stuff and spend the extra money on the baler. So I think that is what we are going to do. I got the disc mower for about Half of what I expected to pay so I am going to go take a look at a few machines on Monday.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> While I cant afford a 10k baler I understand what you are saying completely. The 575 I found was 12k before Christmas and they have since reduced it. I have heard from several people that cheaping out on the baler is not the way to go. Go light on the other stuff and spend the extra money on the baler. So I think that is what we are going to do. I got the disc mower for about Half of what I expected to pay so I am going to go take a look at a few machines on Monday.
> 
> ==============================================================
> 
> ...


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## BWfarms (Aug 3, 2015)

You won't need a tedder but you need the rake here in NC. We have completely different air moisture than Ontario. You are going to push a 4-5 day window out to 7 days.

I do not mow tall fluffy windrows. I roll it out the back as wide as I can go. You get a better and more universal drying consistency. Better nutrient retention as well.

If you're going to cut corners haying in NC, or anywhere for that matter, you will not achieve 'horse' hay. If you plan to cut corners, expect it to rain.

1500 for a NH 256 is typical. You can get a great NH square baler reasonably priced here, they are all over.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

BWfarms said:


> You won't need a tedder but you need the rake here in NC. We have completely different air moisture than Ontario. You are going to push a 4-5 day window out to 7 days.
> 
> I do not mow tall fluffy windrows. I roll it out the back as wide as I can go. You get a better and more universal drying consistency. Better nutrient retention as well.
> 
> ...


You're right! How did I miss that, Must be age


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## MtnHerd (Jul 6, 2011)

Definitely get the best baler you can afford. You will never be sorry stepping up to the 575. The other balers are good balers, but for planning on doing as many square bales as you are talking about, I would put my money towards the baler. You will find that it will eat windrows much easier than the others and will make your operation much more efficient. The other thing that will make a huge difference in efficiency is a second tractor. One raking and one baling makes a HUGE difference, especially when the one raking can start using the grapple to load bales while the other is still baling. That can come later, though. If I had the choice I would go with the good baler and then look for the tractor next year. That will help you appreciate the second tractor more! Also, if you find a good inline reasonable, those are very nice balers. I have never owned one, but the local tractor mechanic has one and the times I have helped him I have been really impressed. And no shifting to get it in transport or through gates!


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I bought the 575, talked the dealer down a bit. Its actually a 2004 model. I think we got a good deal based on prices I see on Tractor house and fastline. Working on getting them paid then bringing the baler home later this week.

Next steps is a rake and a tedder.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Picking up my Tedder today. Last thing is the rake


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Tedder is home. When I get all said and done I am going to line all of the equipment up and take some pictures.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Full load rated gallons per hour is if you keep it pegged on a dyno for an hour. Part load efficiency isn't the same thing.

Closest thing to a useful number to compare tractors is the brake specific fuel consumption, ie its divided by the hp the engine is making at that gallons per hour.

Even that can be poor to compare as some tractors efficiency falls off at full load where its not too bad at part load.



carcajou said:


> Jim I know our gallons are are 15% larger but your right those numbers don't add up with what tractor data says. I do remember the 2 dad had only used 2 jerry cans of diesel a day on the square baler and 3 if it was hooked to a cultivator. One was a 74' the other a 78' model.
> 
> Do you remember what when wrong with the hydraulics? I still would like to buy one myself someday. Dad's were good ones, never back to the dealer the whole time he owned them.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

GunGeek said:


> Tedder is home. When I get all said and done I am going to line all of the equipment up and take some pictures.


So non-descript that you're not even going to mention what you got?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

8350HiTech said:


> So non-descript that you're not even going to mention what you got?


Or maybe a picture is worth a thousand words?

Regards, Mike


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

8350HiTech said:


> So non-descript that you're not even going to mention what you got?


Oh Sorry about that. I got 1998 Hesston 3710.



Vol said:


> Or maybe a picture is worth a thousand words?
> 
> Regards, Mike


Pictures will come after I get delivery on the mower and accumulator and get the rake.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

A little late but In looking at the 575 manual it states it should be pulled with a 75 horse tractor. I've got that JD 3020 at 70hp should I be worried about tearing up the tractor? Or just run a bit slower?


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> A little late but In looking at the 575 manual it states it should be pulled with a 75 horse tractor. I've got that JD 3020 at 70hp should I be worried about tearing up the tractor? Or just run a bit slower?


You will be fine, you have an older 70 PTO H.P. tractor with a lot of iron in it not one of the newer 70 engine H.P. lightweights. Dramatic difference in PTO H.P. and engine H.P. Your 3020 has a lot more beef in it than a lot of the 90-100 H.P. modern tractors.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> A little late but In looking at the 575 manual it states it should be pulled with a 75 horse tractor. I've got that JD 3020 at 70hp should I be worried about tearing up the tractor? Or just run a bit slower?


You'll be fine, no worries. Now start looking for another tedder, a 4 basket, nothing wrong with the Hesston, only a 2 basket is so slow that you wish you had a 4 every time you ted. Now we want pics


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Ok thanks guys. I will get pics as soon as everything gets home. I have a plan for that. My Mower and accumulator should be here Saturday or Sunday. Going to look at a rake a bit later in the afternoon today.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> A little late but In looking at the 575 manual it states it should be pulled with a 75 horse tractor. I've got that JD 3020 at 70hp should I be worried about tearing up the tractor? Or just run a bit slower?


IMHO - you'll be fine. I think NH is on one extreme of the hp curve - on the high side and Deere (348 model) is on the low side with 35 hp minimum. I can see where, on one hand, NH's hp requirement keeps someone with a Ford 3000 (38 PTO hp) from buying a 575, thinking they're going to make 600 bales per hour and NH getting a publicity black eye from the disappointment and on the other extreme, Deere not loosing a sale to lower hp tractor owners with their 35hp requirement.

I looked hard at the NH 570/575/BC5060/BC5070 models knowing the max hp I have to work with is 50 PTO hp. NH dealer assured me I'd be fine. But I thought, what a disaster if I bought one of those models, money spent and had to creep around no faster than my old NH 68 - especially when I knew the published hp NH recommended was higher than what I have! Explain that to my Wife....

For many reasons/trade-offs specific to me made me look for a deal on a JD 347/348; one of which was the lower hp requirement. I know it will take more hp and with 50 PTO hp I'll probably never see the potential of the 348 that I bought - but on paper, I'm gold.... 

Inspite of all that, I think you'll be way OK with the 3020.

Good luck,
Bill


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

I got the accumulator and disc mower home today. The accumulator needs some minor welding repairs and its good to go.

The NH 617 I am a little worried about but I left some money for repairs. Now keep in mind I have never used one of these on my own. I am going to NH on monday to locate an operators manual and a repair manual for it. But while it is sitting on the ground, I turn one of the blade heads and all turn as expected. If I go and turn the PTO shaft none of the heads turn. Is it broke, is there an engagement pin or can I just not spin it fast enough. I can hear the gear box turning.

Thanks again guys. Pictures coming next week.

Oh dont let me forget to tell the story of getting the accumulator off the trailer, I am being nagged to go eat since I have not eaten today.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

You can download PDF manuals from the New Holland website.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

leeave96 said:


> You can download PDF manuals from the New Holland website.


Got it, thank you. Thoughts on my issue with the 617?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

GunGeek said:


> Got it, thank you. Thoughts on my issue with the 617?


I believe the 617 pto turns the gearbox which in turn spins a pulley behind the mower, the pulley is connected to the cutterbar via belts, (usually three or four or one wide one). The belts need to be very tight or it will slip in forage.

Turn pto.....check pulley for same spin
Turn turtles....check for pulley to spin on cutterbar

Check eBay for those manuals.....might save some serious $


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Which way did you turn the pto? If only one way, could an overrunning clutch have prevented it from engaging the machine?

Sometimes there are deals on NH manuals on eBay but if you can't find anything much below $20, just buy a reprint directly from NH. Their prices for reprints often beat the eBay prices for originals.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Sometimes you can be very fortunate on ebay too.....I bought a $400 JD Tech manual for $55 a little over a year ago....it's rare...but it can happen.

Typically how this happens is that the party that lists the item does not list correctly and misses a wide viewing public. Do several searches and keep the search names very brief and that will turn up under-exposed bidding items sometimes....too much detail in the listing by the seller is sure to give good exposure and little hope of getting a real buy.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

There's less demand for tech manuals. Probably easier to get a deal on them compared to owners manuals. Regardless, that is a good deal.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

somedevildawg said:


> I believe the 617 pto turns the gearbox which in turn spins a pulley behind the mower, the pulley is connected to the cutterbar via belts, (usually three or four or one wide one). The belts need to be very tight or it will slip in forage.
> 
> Turn pto.....check pulley for same spin
> Turn turtles....check for pulley to spin on cutterbar
> ...


I went back out and moved stuff around today. After everything was in its place, I messed with the mower. I pulled off the cover, it has one REALLY wide belt. So I turned the the PTO shaft, belt turns, gear on other end turns but discs do not. I turn the a disc all discs turn but bet does not. I'm going down to NH tomorrow to get some spare parts for the baler and going to ask them what they think as well.

Also what is the best way to store the mower. I was using the FEL to move it around as I have not hooked it up to the tractor yet but the jack seems pretty friggen worthless. As soon as I can swing it I think I'm going to get a caddy for it.


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

So I said that I was going to tell a story about the accumulator and here it is.

When I spoke with the auction company they told me that the accumulator was about 10' wide so it was going to need to be on step deck and set on its side to make a legal load. I expressed this to my shipper, he gets there says "oh hell this aint 10' wide. I can pop the wheels on and lay it flat" He did just that, and all was fine. He pulls in I pull up the 3020 pull the disc mower off no problem. The accumulator is much larger though about 8' by 17'. I saw three pickup points and was going to use those to chain it to the FEL but listened to my shipper and ended up chaining to the rear and two of those points (MISTAKE 1), then to hook up to the rear area the chain went from one side, wrapped around the loader 2 times (MISTAKE 2) and back to the other side. I lifted it up and the front end dropped and the chain going to the rear tightened around the loader arm not allowing it to slide. While lifting the accum goes above my hood but I get it off the trailer and back up. Now I cant get it down because if I lower it it will smash the hood. The shipper had some ideas to pull it forward but I didnt think they were going to work and they didnt. We attempted a come along over the top of the FEL to pull it forward but it didnt work. I pulled my truck up and tried the come along from the accum to my truck, that didnt work. Eventually I decided to tilt the bucket as far down as I could, Hook a chain to the front of the bucket then to the center of the accum and tilt the bucket back up and it worked like a charm. This took about an hour and a half to get it off the tractor.

So lessons learned.


Don't listen to the shipper
Lift points are there for a reason
Hydraulics are much stronger than I am....


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

4. Pull trailer out from under instead of backing up with equipment chained to loader.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Don't sound to bad does it

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/grd/5424365804.html


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

bluefarmer said:


> Don't sound to bad does it
> 
> http://littlerock.craigslist.org/grd/5424365804.html


Well it definitely has more than 750 hours on the tractor....

Regards, Mike


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Not so good news on the NH 617 disc mower. Something is wrong I ordered a repair manual from NH for about $50. Should be in next week. ITs got to be between the discs and the gear box.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> Not so good news on the NH 617 disc mower. Something is wrong I ordered a repair manual from NH for about $50. Should be in next week. ITs got to be between the discs and the gear box.


Probly a sheared quill shaft...

Later! OL J R


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> Probly a sheared quill shaft...
> 
> Later! OL J R


Looking through the parts catalog on NH, I dont see anything that contains quill shaft can you direct me to it?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Should be a small driveshaft that connects the gearbox to the modules and the modules to each other... In the spacers between modules... I'd start there...

OL J R


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> Should be a small driveshaft that connects the gearbox to the modules and the modules to each other... In the spacers between modules... I'd start there...
> 
> OL J R


So Item number 30 in this picture?





  








617Shaft




__
GunGeek


__
Feb 4, 2016




Shaft?


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## GunGeek (Sep 5, 2015)

Just wanted to come back and post an update. I still got out cheaper than buying one elsewhere but the 617 I purchased at auction required some work. I had to replace the bottom gear of the gear box, along with the nut and pin as it had come off and turned into a doughnut. It would still turn the rest but I figured it would be hard to get back together and I noticed metal shavings so I took the whole gear box apart, cleaned it and replaced the seals etc it was $230 for that one gear. On top of that I had to rebuild the module gear box with a repair kit that cost me $235 and I had to replace one of the part # 30 for about $70 it was completely stripped on the gearbox module end. In this process I ended up buying a gantry crane, so I added another tool to my collection.

Between parts, tax, fluid, seals I have it up and running in. In total I have about $2200 - $2300 in the disc mower, its all timed and since I had the gear box totally apart I am confident that it, the module gear box and the first two disc gear boxes are in good shape. But at the same time I know the disc mower and its parts pretty well now so I am no longer afraid of it. Had a bit of issue timing the first two discs. What ever Einstein decided to make those turn in the same direction should be fired.

I have also purchased two wagon running gears as others have suggested along with some used i-beams and need to build the deck on them (I just won one tonight at auction so I have to go get it). I have to take down my JD 3020 for some repairs for the steering but other than that I am ready to go to the field to cut and bale some hay soon. Thank you everyone for the help and hopefully I will get back to posting some pictures of everything when the tractor is back up after the steering fix.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

GunGeek said:


> Just wanted to come back and post an update. I still got out cheaper than buying one elsewhere but the 617 I purchased at auction required some work. I had to replace the bottom gear of the gear box, along with the nut and pin as it had come off and turned into a doughnut. It would still turn the rest but I figured it would be hard to get back together and I noticed metal shavings so I took the whole gear box apart, cleaned it and replaced the seals etc it was $230 for that one gear. On top of that I had to rebuild the module gear box with a repair kit that cost me $235 and I had to replace one of the part # 30 for about $70 it was completely stripped on the gearbox module end. In this process I ended up buying a gantry crane, so I added another tool to my collection.
> 
> Between parts, tax, fluid, seals I have it up and running in. In total I have about $2200 - $2300 in the disc mower, its all timed and since I had the gear box totally apart I am confident that it, the module gear box and the first two disc gear boxes are in good shape. But at the same time I know the disc mower and its parts pretty well now so I am no longer afraid of it. Had a bit of issue timing the first two discs. What ever Einstein decided to make those turn in the same direction should be fired.
> 
> I have also purchased two wagon running gears as others have suggested along with some used i-beams and need to build the deck on them (I just won one tonight at auction so I have to go get it). I have to take down my JD 3020 for some repairs for the steering but other than that I am ready to go to the field to cut and bale some hay soon. Thank you everyone for the help and hopefully I will get back to posting some pictures of everything when the tractor is back up after the steering fix.


Glad to hear it... glad I could help in some small way.

The reason the first two disks turn the same direction is because the mower has an odd number of disks on the 9 foot models. Since the mower needs to have both the end disks turning "toward the middle" and since in virtually all disk mowers (with some exceptions) the disks adjoining one another generally spin in opposite directions (either toward or away from each other), which is possible with even numbers of disks but not with an odd number of disks... since it DOES have an odd number of disks, that means ONE disk MUST spin the same direction as the odd numbered one next to it...

Like this... a six disk bar will turn, from one end to the other, (clockwise--<<<, counterclockwise-->>>)

>>>--<<<-->>>--<<<-->>>--<<<

Note the two ends always turn toward the center of the bar...

On a seven disk bar (odd number of disks), the pattern is thus...

>>>--<<<-->>>--<<<-->>>--<<<--<<<

That said, I've seen some European mowers designed with multiple disks turning the same direction, in order to "deliver" the hay more toward the center of the bar...

The pattern is thus...

>>>-->>>-->>>--<<<--<<<--<<<

SO, that's the reason...

Later! OL J R


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