# new holland br 7060 vs nh roll-belt 460



## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Need to add good 4 foot wide variable chamber to sell hay this spring. Would you stick with BR series or go with new roll-belt? Thank You. My dad passed away last year and am taking over farm trying to not make to many mistakes. Thanks in advance.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Jim, is there any reason why other balers are not included in your search? I wasn't even thinking they still made the BR series.....seems a bit strange. But I had a br 7060 for about 6 years, great baler....I've owned a rollabelt 450 for about 2 years now.....ain't ready to write home to momma about it  the jury may still be out regarding the rollabelt as it is in the shop now getting updated, but so far it's been a real pita....
Sorry to hear of your dads passing, it can be tough to take over a farm from someone who had years of OJT, it takes years of OJT....you're on a great site to help minimize some of those perceived "mistakes".... 
Welcome to Haytalk Jim....how's about go into your account settings and update your profile with a general geographical location, for future questions it may be critical.....


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Welcome to HT Jim and I wouldn't worry about the mistakes as much as try not to make them TWICE! :angry:

Also following dawg's advice definitely could be to your benefit (as in real estate, location, location, location, if you are like me, you will find it amazing on how things are done in different areas of the world).

Larry


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Welcome. Sorry for your loss and good luck.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Dawg,

Whats wrong with your rollbelt? I was thinking they were very similar to the old BR balers. Those balers were pretty darn reliable.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg

If your rollbelt has been a PITA then it's possible you should consider a JOHN DEERE rd baler. I've baled over 150,000 rd bales since '87 with a JD rd baler without any one of them being a PITA. :lol: 22,000+ bales on present baler,30,000 bales on previous & I can't remember the bale count on the others

Jim


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

PaMike said:


> Dawg,
> Whats wrong with your rollbelt? I was thinking they were very similar to the old BR balers. Those balers were pretty darn reliable.


It's like a bad dream that keeps reoccurring....ran about 1k thru it year before last, brand new machine. Out of the 1k probably 100 bales were tearing the net wrap in different places on the roller. If you didn't stop and get off the tractor to remove the net wrapped up, it would continue to mess up....a real pita 
Sometimes the knife would not cycle completely, once again had to stop the tractor and manually activate the knife to send it "home"....pita. If the aforementioned happens and it doesn't cut the net, there is no warning device to let you know! Then you eject the bale (thinking all is ok) and the damn net is hanging out the back of the baler still attached to the roll.....have to get off once again and cut the net (pita) and then cycle the knife, (pita) That was last year.....I made the dealer give me a roll of net wrap just for the incredible pita it was.....
Enter this year....start baling first cut and the damned baler is not putting on 2.75 wraps, more like 1.2 wraps....I would bale a windrow and come back down the adjacent windrow only to see the bales in the previous windrow burst open, a real friggin pita....now I have to get the Tedder back to the field (it's usually gone by then to another field a few miles away....then have to get the rake back, it's usually in the same place  then I have to rebale the bales I've already spent way too much time messing with.....after baking the first field, out of 200 bales, 15 busted another 20 had net problems (torn etc) we fought that sob all season last year until the final cut....baled 330 bales the final cut and it only tore one net . That was my best day with this baler.....it was a freebie job for a fellow farmer that had some medical issues. It is now in the shop for some "updates" that is suppose to fix the problem....but the problem has already happened....it cost me time and money both years. I never had a problem with my br7060......it's aggravating when you spend a lot of money on a piece of equipment and have poor performance that costs you money directly out of you pocket the first two years....now I am down to that first batch of bales made earlier this year.....I have had about 10 complaints about the net wrap not holding together long enuf to feed up.....some have good wrap coverage, a lot have 1.2-1.6 wraps....those are the ones I get the complaints about. You work your butt off to make premium hay, spare no expense in equipment, fertilize, labor and have complaints and problems.....not exactly what I was looking for when I spent that 34k.....if I have a minutes problem this year, that pos will be gone and replaced by a deere or Mchale...I've about had my fill of it......hth


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

It's almost identical to my BR in all respects with the exception of the net wrap.....and this damn computer (bridge) that is suppose to be the cats meow in so far as controlling functions....bullshit if you ask me. Never tells me the net didn't get cut....seems purty damn basic to me? Idk, maybe I'm expecting too much, but I don't think so....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Tx Jim said:


> somedevildawg
> If your rollbelt has been a PITA then it's possible you should consider a JOHN DEERE rd baler. I've baled over 150,000 rd bales since '87 with a JD rd baler without any one of them being a PITA. :lol: 22,000+ bales on present baler,30,000 bales on previous & I can't remember the bale count on the others
> Jim


Biggest mistake I made was not buying the Deere....it was 5k additional dollars but at this point, it would have been money well spent I think....
I've owned quite a bit of NH equipment and I've always thought very highly of them....not so much this piece


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

somedevildawg said:


> Biggest mistake I made was not buying the Deere....it was 5k additional dollars but at this point, it would have been money well spent I think....
> I've owned quite a bit of NH equipment and I've always thought very highly of them....not so much this piece


Maybe its a southern thing? All the NH balers up north here work fine 

It would be interesting to here Mike10's input. I haven't heard much of anything about the new balers, which is probably a good thing. Bad news travels fast... Makes me wonder if you got one that wasn't set up right, or has some sort of other quality control issue at the factory...


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Baled 1500 with mine last yr and finally got everything to suit me. Took nearly 300 bales to do it and with some help from mike10 and a little horse sense I wouldn't trade it for my JD 466 for nothing!!


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I can echo somedevildawg's sentiments to some degree . . . I have a BR780A and a BR7090. Last fall I had a chance to run beside a Roll-belt 560, look at it extensively, and ask the operator about it. NH changed a number of things, and I am not sure I like very many of their changes. The owner of the 560 had previously run a 7090. His summary was that the only thing in which the 560 was superior was in the crop feeding/plugging. I am going to run BRs for a while yet.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> I can echo somedevildawg's sentiments to some degree . . . I have a BR780A and a BR7090. Last fall I had a chance to run beside a Roll-belt 560, look at it extensively, and ask the operator about it. NH changed a number of things, and I am not sure I like very many of their changes. The owner of the 560 had previously run a 7090. His summary was that the only thing in which the 560 was superior was in the crop feeding/plugging. I am going to run BRs for a while yet.


Ya know, I do believe I have not plugged the 450 at all that I couldn't easily resolve it by cycling the PTO....little harder on the 7060 for sure, perhaps he's on to something....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

PaMike said:


> Maybe its a southern thing? All the NH balers up north here work fine
> It would be interesting to here Mike10's input. I haven't heard much of anything about the new balers, which is probably a good thing. Bad news travels fast... Makes me wonder if you got one that wasn't set up right, or has some sort of other quality control issue at the factory...


Absolutely was quality control on the wrapping of the rollers....weld splatter all over the roller, with Mike10 help it was and easy diagnosis but much harder to get smooth, and then we put some jb weld (or similar) material in the rods where they didn't do a full weld because material would get caught and once again begin snatching wrap....
The other problems seems to be centered around the 12v motor for the cycling of the knife...the updates hopefully will cure this problem but idk.....jury still out on it, I'll know in about 6 weeks...good lord willing
If it wasn't for Mike10 I woulda already run the sob thru the front door of the dealership....some issues can be attributed to dealer set up I suppose but without a doubt, the biggest problem is a factory issue....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

No problems eating hay, it will eat it better than my BR I believe....if those problems are resolved, I'm a happy farmer, if not, they ain't heard the last from me....


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## Wethay (Jul 17, 2015)

Luck to you Dawg. A baler that eats hay isn't much if it forgets about the baling part of it.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

New Holland is their own worst enemy between half-arsed quality control and an almost total lack of proper set-up when their balers leave the factory. It's a pity because once everything is worked out they are excellent machines for the most part.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

The biggest issue was the assumption by NH that the electrical system could be run from the tractors power plug. Some tractors it would work fine using the tractors electrical system for power, but on other tractors it only caused headaches. The system monitors the amperage load on the motors and that is what determines when the system cuts power to the motors. Most tractors use a small gauge wire for their power plugs. The small wire gauge could not supply the needed power to keep the amperage from raising to a point where the controller stopped power to the motors.

Part of the update being done to your baler will be an addition of a separate power harness to go directly to the battery for power. Also the upgrade will have the software updated with a wider range before the controller cuts power to the motors. Be sure your dealer has downloaded and installed on their computer EST software update 3 which came out in February. This update includes an option to stop the duckbill in a precut position like the BR balers do.

There will be a few other parts changed also but the additional power will make a night and day difference in the operation of the baler.

A warning and audible alarm is shown on the operators panel when the net does not cut and if I remember right a stop sign is also displayed. I have a hard time remembering what all the symbols which are displayed concern and this is probably why you think a warning has not been issued. There will be a code in the upper left had corner when an error occurs. With the updates this should no longer be an issue for you.

I updated several balers before last seasons use and did not have any issues with the motors stalling except for a customer who switched tractors and he did not have the additional power cord installed which he had there. After he installed the power cord his problems never recurred.


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Thanks for the comments. Sounds like I need to rethink this roll belt deal. Last thing I need in the field is a PITA baler when weather is moving in. I guess stick with BR series or get Green. BR 7060 or green equivalent. What do the green folks advise for a variable chamber 4x5 that will also do a 4x5. Thank you!!! I am new to this site and the wealth of info is pretty amazing.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

Jim gore said:


> What do the green folks advise for a variable chamber 4x5 that will also do a 4x5.


 A JD 459 will bale a 4X5 or smaller bale IE has variable chamber. I have & really like JD's Mega-wide pickup attachment on my 467.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Jim gore said:


> Thanks for the comments. Sounds like I need to rethink this roll belt deal. Last thing I need in the field is a PITA baler when weather is moving in. I guess stick with BR series or get Green. BR 7060 or green equivalent. What do the green folks advise for a variable chamber 4x5 that will also do a 4x5. Thank you!!! I am new to this site and the wealth of info is pretty amazing.


469 will make 4' wide and 4-6' tall.....same is true with the nh460

I don't know if I would completely discount the rollabelt....if Mike is correct, and he generally is....this problem should be resolved. If it's resolved and the other update/improvements are done, it would make a fine baling machine. I'm not going to be happy with running a power wire to the battery as I have to do it on all of my tractors as any one of them could potentially be baling....I wonder is NH is going to supply 4 of these cables or one....guess I'll do what I have to do, trading at this point, I'd loose my shirt...


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim Gore, What baler do you have now?


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

new holland BR 7090, I sent you a PM. thank you


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Somedevildawg, Sorry, you only get one cord. You can make your own with 10ga wire, circuit breaker and the connector for alot less then what NH wants for theirs, The NH calbe incorporates a switch and comes in a nice package, but it is not necessary for your use. The switch does not controll the power to the operators panel. I would avoid installing a switch if you make your own harness because of the potential of power loss through the connections.

If you did not take your operators panel in with the baler, do so because the software in the operators panel also needs to updated.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks mike, I didn't take it but I will deliver it first thing Monday. Thanks again for all of your help with this machine, you've been a much better asset to me than my selling/servicing dealer.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim, if you want the simplest solution, then go with the 7060 since the harness and operators panel is the same between the 7090 and 7060. The roll belt balers use a totally different harness and operators panel.

Since you are just starting this enterprise anew, and I know is not my place to do so, I will give you one piece of advice. Do not dig your self a deep hole of debt.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mike10 said:


> Jim, if you want the simplest solution, then go with the 7060 since the harness and operators panel is the same between the 7090 and 7060. The roll belt balers use a totally different harness and operators panel.
> 
> Since you are just starting this enterprise anew, and I know is not my place to do so, I will give you one piece of advice. Do not dig your self a deep hole of debt.


Heed that very good advice in that last sentence.....


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Great advice! One of my favorite sayings is "In order to stop digging yourself a hole in life you first have to put down your shovel".

Back on the 7090 and thoughts on getting the brake tension to what the book says. It says 100 ft pounds but with all things maxed out it is not even close.

Last question I promise. How do you decide on where the screw stop should be on the duckbill adjustment screw. In the past a bale would not start until I adjusted it so the duckbill would go in deeper but there must be a better more objective measurement on this. THANK YOU!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim, I responded to your PM early this morning but maybe it did not go through. If you have not received it yet I will repost my response here this afternoon after work.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Here is what I posted to your PM.

Jim,

To set the duckbill stop, fully insert the duckbill. Raise and lock the tailgate. From the back of the baler looking at the outer edges of the duckbill you will see the outer inch or so of the duckbill is in a slot since the duckbill is wider then the bale chamber. You will measure from the edge of the duckbill to the end of the slot. The following is copied from the BR7000 series service manual. The BT700 series was slightly different but this will work.

Between the duckbill and slot end in side sheet, 4,
ensure there is a distance of 60 t 2 mm (2-318 = 1116
in) on a 6 ft tall unit and 42=2 mm (1-5/8= 1/16in)
on a 5 ft tall unit.

There have been a couple of procedures for adjusting the brake. The one I like to use on a BR baler was the first. Remove the net roll from the baler an install an empty net roll cardboard tube. This will let the small net counter roll be positioned so the brake will have some drag at the minimum net roll size. Place a bolt in one of the four holes in the side of the brake disc and using an* IN/LB* torque wrench adjust the brake adjusting bolt so it takes @ 120 *IN/LBS* to start the brake disc to turn. This is inch pounds not foot pounds.

The second way is to fully insert the duckbill with the tailgate up and locked. Grab and pull the net so you have about five foot of net hanging out the back. Fully retract the duckbill. Using a spring scales, tie a not in the end of the net and attache the spring scales and pull on the scales to see how many pounds of pull are required for the net to be evenly pulled from the roll. The recommendation is 85 to 95 pounds of pull. This is not foot pounds but only pounds.

If i have a problematic baler, usually a BR7000 I set the brake slightly different. I install the empty cardboard tube so the counter roll is against the tube. I adjust the brake until there is a slight drag on the brake disc. The BR balers do not need that much braking action to work. Less drag will help keep the net from popping back up the duckbill.

If your net is popping up the duckbill check the gap between the duckbill and the baffle. The baffle should light touch the duckbill about two thirds the way across the duckbill.

Don't let them Deere guys scare you. All equipment have their problems. There are always growing pains when a new system is introduced. The most important thing is for you to have a good dealer to work with.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

somedevildawg

JD has similar wiring voltage drop problem. I had to install a straight to battery wiring harness on my tractor for my 467 baler to wrap properly.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

mike10 said:


> Don't let them Deere guys scare you. All equipment have their problems. There are always growing pains when a new system is introduced. The most important thing is for you to have a good dealer to work with.


So true.I've seen alot of things that when introduced they haven't gotten all the bugs out of it yet.No brand is immune to it.A good dealer is a must that keeps on top of updates and recalls.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Jim gore, what length net rolls are you using? Last fall I had a run around with my 7090 losing the tail of the net between wrap cycles. After changing some things, and using roughly the same brake adjustment technique that mike10 outlines, all was good with 7000 ft rolls. Then I started using 8000 foot rolls and the tail problem came back. It is my opinion that the brake force increases too much with increased net roll diameter on the 7000 series. I need to get both my 780A and 7090 in the shop sometime and compare this, as the 780As have some different parts in the net brake system.


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. Still trying to get duck bill measurement correct. What is the measurement in inches from duckbill edge to the slot with baler open? In inches. Where is the duckbill and the slot measured from as there is an angles piece of metal on the side? This is not in manual and is on NH BR 7090 thank you!


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

swmnhay said:


> So true.I've seen alot of things that when introduced they haven't gotten all the bugs out of it yet.No brand is immune to it.A good dealer is a must that keeps on top of updates and recalls.





mike10 said:


> If your net is popping up the duckbill check the gap between the duckbill and the baffle. The baffle should light touch the duckbill about two thirds the way across the duckbill.
> 
> Don't let them Deere guys scare you. All equipment have their problems. There are always growing pains when a new system is introduced. The most important thing is for you to have a good dealer to work with.


At least a JD rd baler doesn't have a duckbill that needs SPECIAL ATTENTION to put wrap correctly on a rd bale of hay!


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Oh, but they do. That high speed baler they have has a setup almost identical to the NH at least in concept. By the way we do not have to make adjustments to our net system to get it to work that Deere needs to do and we do not need to buy talc by the drum. LOL. Each system has it's positives and negatives. I have been doing this for 45 years and I have yet to see the perfect machine. What matters is if you have dealer support who can help you when issues arise.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim gore, sorry for the bad copy and paste job I did on the net penetration. I was in a hurry and did a copy and paste from a pdf file and it did not come out like is was supposed to be. I saw some of the issues of the paste job and corrected them but missed the dimensions. Attached is the pdf of the duckbill penetration..

When I reply to a PM I have not figured out how to attach files that are not already present in Haytalk library, that is why I did the cut and paste to the original PM. I just copied my PM to you and added it to this discussion on the forum since it appeared you did not receive it.

View attachment Duckbill Penetration_0001.pdf


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Thank you again for your help!


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Think I will stick with BR series since I understand the basic settings thanks to Mike and you folks. Would you get a sileage special due to beefed up pickup or stick with regular br series baler?


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Jim gore, what length net rolls are you using? Last fall I had a run around with my 7090 losing the tail of the net between wrap cycles. After changing some things, and using roughly the same brake adjustment technique that mike10 outlines, all was good with 7000 ft rolls. Then I started using 8000 foot rolls and the tail problem came back. It is my opinion that the brake force increases too much with increased net roll diameter on the 7000 series. I need to get both my 780A and 7090 in the shop sometime and compare this, as the 780As have some different parts in the net brake system.


The difference in spring tension between the 780 and 7090 is considerable, but the linkage is also different What I would do is find a different spring with less tension. As long as there is some drag on the brake disc when the net roll is finished it should work just fine. Loosening the original spring will remove all tension when the net roll is about finished, that is why a spring with less tension is needed.


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## Jim gore (May 14, 2011)

Would you get a sileage special due to beefed up pickup or stick with regular br series baler?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Jim gore said:


> Would you get a sileage special due to beefed up pickup or stick with regular br series baler?


I have SS on the rollabelt.....just in case


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mike10 said:


> Oh, but they do. That high speed baler they have has a setup almost identical to the NH at least in concept. By the way we do not have to make adjustments to our net system to get it to work that Deere needs to do and we do not need to buy talc by the drum. LOL. Each system has it's positives and negatives. I have been doing this for 45 years and I have yet to see the perfect machine. What matters is if you have dealer support who can help you when issues arise.


Mike10

What model JD high speed baler has something similar to a NH duckbill? I have stayed abreast of new balers.

I haven't put talc powder on my rubber net roller in YEARS. What adjustments to net attachment as I've made none on my net attachment except replace the worn rubber brake pad?

My net attachment hasn't been adjusted since I've owned it with over 22,000 bales on the monitor.

I haven't needed any dealer support.

I never implied a JD rd baler was perfect just better for me than some other brands.


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## mike10 (May 29, 2011)

Jim I hope this link works. If not go to you tube and search for 900 series deere balers. Notice the floor roll, front rolls and front mounted net applicator which I am sure is not called a duckbill by JD but works the same as the NH in the insertion of the net.

There is a practical limit to all designs and JD has reached it with the their rear net system. While it may be good it limits their ability to take the baler to the next level. Remember this is the same company which said they would never have a rotary combine.

Good for you that you have not had any problems but that is not always the case elsewhere. I can say the same thing for the vast majority of NH users that they have not had any issues with the net system on their balers. If you are judging the design by this forum or other forums, you are limiting your information. People go to forums who have problems that they can not resolve for whatever reasons, If the problem was to the extent you would insinuate, there would hundreds of people posting.

The problem is multifaceted, with NH to some extent, the dealer network and yes, the customer sharing some responsibility in the inability of making things work. Most of the problems posted on this forum are not rocket science., From all the posts I have read on this forum I can place them into two categories. Customers who for whatever reason will not ask their dealer about the problem before posting, and those where the dealer will not expend a little effort to find a solution.

It does not matter to me which category is posting, I just enjoy helping with something I am familiar with. I get the same sense about you that you like to help people which proves JD advocates are not all bad.


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## Tx Jim (Jun 30, 2014)

mike10

Thanks for your reply. I thought you might be referring to the model 900 series. I've never seen one & know anything about those models. I agree with you that most brands have their quirks(idiosyncrasies) that the equipment operators must learn to overcome or procure dealer/manufacturer assistance.. You're correct as I like to help solve equipment problems similar to you. As I've previously stated I own/operate many different brands/colors other than JD including Kubota,H&S,Vermeer,Krone,King Kutter,Ford,Dixie Chopper,Polaris Ranger so I think I may not be classified as a "JD advocate" 

Jim


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