# Tedder or Rotary Rake



## eth555 (Apr 9, 2014)

New member, I have been lurking for a long time now. I am torn on what to purchase. My equipment is a New Idea 5209 Discbine with conditioner rolls, 2 older John Deere rollbar rakes, and a Vermeer WR22 10 wheel V-rake. I currently round bale for my own cows, I am thinking about trying some small square bales this year to sell; I already have the equipment for that. We have alfalfa and some grass/clover mixes. I have been going back and forth between adding a rotary rake, or a tedder. I do not know anyone who uses a tedder in my area; they do not seem very prevalent in this area. I talked with the Kuhn dealer he seems to think a rotary rake will give me a half a day quicker dry down, and the tedders he has sold do not get used often, but when needed they are an invaluable tool at that time. I have a number of questions and hoping someone here can help me some. I was pretty dead set on a rotary rake until today I veered back towards the tedder.


How do the rotary rakes do behind a 9' cutter - windrow? 
Kuhn dealer recommended a 4220 or 4221, is the only difference between the 2 removable arms? 
If Krone, which would fit better T38 or T42? 
I would assume the size of the rotor makes less of a difference if I am following a tedder with the rake; which would mean purchase tedder before the rake?
One thing I dislike about the wheel rake is I do not have a center kicker wheel which makes it difficult to get all the hay turned unless I am merging multiple windrows which does not help dry down. So I have been using the old rollbar rakes to do initial raking of singe windrows and then going back with the wheel rake to merge multiple windrows to bale. My question would be if I ted the hay instead of running the rollbar rake over the hay would I be able to use the wheel rake then after the tedder, being less reliant on the rollbar rakes?
I am pretty much down to Kuhn or Krone. The Kuhn dealer was at the local farm show a few weeks ago, where I was able to talk to him and the Kuhn rep. Everyone praises the Krone products but I have never seen a rake or a tedder at the local dealer; so not sure if it is worth pursuing anything with this dealer. From the Krone website their specs look better, but again kind of irrelevant without a dealer to support the product line; just discouraged with Krone I guess. 

That is the questions I can think of floating around in my mind at the moment; maybe it is cabin fever from the long winter and now with spring on the doorstep I am getting excited thinking about the haying season! Thanks in advance for any input!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm voting for the tedder. The rotary rake will speed drying but by a limited amount. If you need to ted three days in a row you can do that a lot easier than re-raking in an attempt to fluff your hay back up.


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## clowers (Feb 11, 2011)

Buy the Tedder and add the Vermeer splitter wheels to your rake. It's an awesome combination. I have the splitters in my Vermeer 1224(think its correct #) and I love them I don't have to Ted to get a clean pick up of the windrow by my baler. That's when it's hot here in east texas


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Tripple 5- I have a similar situation to your cutter, mine is a NH1409 which is about 9-3-I think the same size as you. As much as I would like to say do the rotary rake, I think Clowers and Hitech are right, you need the tedder first or at least you do here in the east. Can't imagine making hay now without one.

You could just do a package deal which is what I did last fall- the 17+' four basket hydraulic fold and 38T Krone tedder and rake is a perfect combo for your cutter. You might be broke, but you won't be sorry!

On the dealer support, the Krone stuff is so tough you should only need wear parts which are easy to get virtually overnight from big dealers somewhere. I have a similar situation with my brillion stuff but not just get on the blower and order and it is here the next day or day after.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its hard, in our climate the single biggest problem is getting drydown so tedder is always needed. Rotary rake helps but is hours vs tedder knocking days off.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

The difference between the 4220THA and the 4221THA is the removable tine arms. On the 4221 8 of the 11 tine arms are removable. All 11 arms on the 4220 are fixed. The 4221 is about 1000.00 higher (list) than the 4220.


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## zephyrtear (Apr 3, 2013)

slowzuki said:


> Its hard, in our climate the single biggest problem is getting drydown so tedder is always needed. Rotary rake helps but is hours vs tedder knocking days off.


Im with slowzuki here. Tedder helps us a lot more in our climate than rake. Also if you go with a tedder get at least a 4 star one. We used to have a 2 basket tedder and upped to a 6 basket. Huge difference in productivity. Still use same 50 hp tractor...


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

If i go into a store and can't decide between a bag of Lay's potato chips or a Baby Ruth, I just get both.....No remorse that way..


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

krone.1 said:


> If i go into a store and can't decide between a bag of Lay's potato chips or a Baby Ruth, I just get both.....No remorse that way..


Obviously not on the low carb diet.....

Mine would be pork skins or peanuts


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## eth555 (Apr 9, 2014)

Thank you all for the replies! I appreciate all of your input. I just got done emailing my local Krone dealer for a price on a 4 basket trailed tedder and a 38T Rake. I can only afford one this year, so that is why I have been going back and forth between the two. Sounds like consensus is a tedder. Does anyone have any experience with the optional narrow swathing gearbox on the tedders and if it is available on the 4 basket tedder? Seems like a good idea, just not sure about cost, I did ask about this in my email to the dealer. Hopefully they get back to me.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

My first tedder has this feature, its partly why it is in the junk pile as the bearings went out in the other input shaft. I didn't know what it was until after. Traditionally in some humid climates the hay would be night windrowed with idea of dew only landing on the top of half the hay and it could be laid back out the next day with a bit of an advantage.

I thought it was a neat idea and gave it a shot but it just doesn't work here. Yes the windrow stays drier but the ground takes almost as long to dry as a dew wetted mat of tedded out hay. The pass of the tedder to spread the night windrows is the most important part and for us works as well or better than with the night raking.

I would save my money if I was you.



eth555 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the optional narrow swathing gearbox on the tedders and if it is available on the 4 basket tedder? Seems like a good idea, just not sure about cost, I did ask about this in my email to the dealer. Hopefully they get back to me.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

While a tedder and a rotary rake would be ideal I think that you will get more drying benefit from the tedder and it will come in real handy if you happen to have some hay get washed. You can't go wrong with Krone for a tedder or a rake.....I have been very pleased with my 4 basket tedder and single rotary rake.


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## Jah (Jul 28, 2021)

eth555 said:


> New member, I have been lurking for a long time now. I am torn on what to purchase. My equipment is a New Idea 5209 Discbine with conditioner rolls, 2 older John Deere rollbar rakes, and a Vermeer WR22 10 wheel V-rake. I currently round bale for my own cows, I am thinking about trying some small square bales this year to sell; I already have the equipment for that. We have alfalfa and some grass/clover mixes. I have been going back and forth between adding a rotary rake, or a tedder. I do not know anyone who uses a tedder in my area; they do not seem very prevalent in this area. I talked with the Kuhn dealer he seems to think a rotary rake will give me a half a day quicker dry down, and the tedders he has sold do not get used often, but when needed they are an invaluable tool at that time. I have a number of questions and hoping someone here can help me some. I was pretty dead set on a rotary rake until today I veered back towards the tedder.
> 
> 
> How do the rotary rakes do behind a 9' cutter - windrow?
> ...


My dad used a NH 479 for 25 yrs. Never had a problem, rubber rollers. We bought a used NH 488, rubber rollers, doesn't work, looks like new. 12 yrs ago I bought a rotten old JD 930 disk mower with steel tines. My moms 2555 runs it like it is not even there. Drying time is cut in half. Rather superior over the NH 479 rubber roles. I have a 9.5 NH rollar bar rake from the 50's. If you hit the window (not swath) from the NH 479 directly in the middle of the rake at 4 mph
It flies the hay over perfectly, for good hay but takes 3 days.
The roller bar cant handle the swath from my JD 930. Just too much hay. So I bought H&S V10. My taking speed is 4-5 mph max. This rake fluffs up the hay, so the dry hay gets to dry and the wet hay is damp, giving you crap hay. It also does not pick up the hay in between without 2 optional center kick wheels. In thick crops the rake plugs or just glides right over the top. I hate it but it is 2.5x faster than my roller bar.
It also causes problems with JD 430 round baler. The baler pickup plugs frequently.
The rollar bar puts the hay into a not, 3 heavy windows into one I can punch out 72 6'4" bales in 2 hours. With my V10 wheel rake I can only punch out 55 bales in 5-7 hours.

I'm looking at Frontier WR5417, which solves most of the problems of my V10. Price difference V10 $5700 cnd vs WR5417 $50,000 cnd. Or a Tedder which is $75,000 cnd.
I had better hay with the rollar bar rake over the wheel rake but the rollar bar plugs also in heavy crops.
I would think the teddar would throw all the leaves away. I'm not sure how this is better, and they are expensive, the cams on the bars that hold the teeth wear out frequently, which is also expensive.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jah said:


> My dad used a NH 479 for 25 yrs. Never had a problem, rubber rollers. We bought a used NH 488, rubber rollers, doesn't work, looks like new. 12 yrs ago I bought a rotten old JD 930 disk mower with steel tines. My moms 2555 runs it like it is not even there. Drying time is cut in half. Rather superior over the NH 479 rubber roles. I have a 9.5 NH rollar bar rake from the 50's. If you hit the window (not swath) from the NH 479 directly in the middle of the rake at 4 mph
> It flies the hay over perfectly, for good hay but takes 3 days.
> The roller bar cant handle the swath from my JD 930. Just too much hay. So I bought H&S V10. My taking speed is 4-5 mph max. This rake fluffs up the hay, so the dry hay gets to dry and the wet hay is damp, giving you crap hay. It also does not pick up the hay in between without 2 optional center kick wheels. In thick crops the rake plugs or just glides right over the top. I hate it but it is 2.5x faster than my roller bar.
> It also causes problems with JD 430 round baler. The baler pickup plugs frequently.
> ...


I'm a bit confused, a tedder & a rake perform different functions and are used at different times.. A tedder will not windrow a rake will.


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## Jah (Jul 28, 2021)

I keep using my H&S V10 but buy a 30' tedder to get higher quality hay. Or just buy a Frontier WR5417/H&S 8100 series 17 wheel rake (which are almost identical) and no tedder.

I cant see any benefits in those rotary rakes. The rake teeth are few and they would leave hay all over your fields, especially in rough terrain.

The WR5417 will rake the field clean and keep all the leaves. Since it is offset it fluffs all the hay without the need for center kicker wheels. And it won't plug.

I paid $3,800 for my JD 930 which is 11'6" cut. I changed the hitch and PTO to make tight corners $1000.

I bought a used 540/1000 PTO for my moms 2555, $2,500.everuthing works great.

I understand you pass the tedder after mowing, then rake the next day. The dollar bar rake worked great for a time. The weather these days you have to quick. I mowed 30 acres at night raked and baked the next day and in the barn. Hay was over ripe a but but ok.

I lost 5 acres of good stuff (been rained on for 2 weeks now). And theres 100 acres still standing which looks like straw now, and it is still raining...

To speed up bailing time I need lisle twine. Cant buy anymore. Plastic twine takes twice as much or the bales fall apart, which increases tiring time to 2 minutes per baler from 1 minute.

Large green house? Might be cheaper!


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## ttazzman (Sep 29, 2019)

Tedder....your rakes are not optimal but will work...


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Jah said:


> I keep using my H&S V10 but buy a 30' tedder to get higher quality hay. Or just buy a Frontier WR5417/H&S 8100 series 17 wheel rake (which are almost identical) and no tedder.
> 
> I cant see any benefits in those rotary rakes. The rake teeth are few and they would leave hay all over your fields, especially in rough terrain.
> 
> ...


Keep your rake and buy a tedder.
As for: *I cant see any benefits in those rotary rakes. The rake teeth are few and they would leave hay all over your fields, especially in rough terrain. *You will once you use them, the windrow is so much better and fluffier and the balers love them. Now it may be that in your particular situation a wheel rake may be more suitable.


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## SwingOak (May 19, 2014)

Get a tedder first, and a rotary rake second. Because I have a H&S tedder which doesn’t have the feature Krone does that offsets it to prevent the outside first pass from getting thrown out of the field, I now only use the NH rope-a-bar to rake the edges in. The tedder probably saves a full day of drying time, on average. My process is mow, ted, ted, rotary rake, bale. If the weather cooperates I can make dry hay in 2-1/2 days, which is pretty good for the upper Midwest.


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## northernhaymaker (Jan 5, 2021)

Tedder, depending on climate will save a lot of drying time. Assuming you have the time for the extra pass.

Kuhn and Krone are both overrated but if those are the options then dealer and/or price would make the decision.


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## Farmineer95 (Aug 11, 2014)

I learned to make rows as narrow as the windrower will do, more sunlight on the damp ground before tedding helps dry the ground. Damp ground slows dry down. Uneven terrain by me likely means ruts and they hold water on our clay soil. Rotary rakes make a consistent row, fluffy to let air through. Rake an hour before dew is off to save leaves. Less ash (soil dust) placed in row from a rotary as compared to vee rakes (depends on market). We ted everything right after cutting, mostly to take advantage of sunlight. There is a direct correlation from dry down time to quality.


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## Rex and a farm (Oct 24, 2021)

eth555 said:


> New member, I have been lurking for a long time now. I am torn on what to purchase. My equipment is a New Idea 5209 Discbine with conditioner rolls, 2 older John Deere rollbar rakes, and a Vermeer WR22 10 wheel V-rake. I currently round bale for my own cows, I am thinking about trying some small square bales this year to sell; I already have the equipment for that. We have alfalfa and some grass/clover mixes. I have been going back and forth between adding a rotary rake, or a tedder. I do not know anyone who uses a tedder in my area; they do not seem very prevalent in this area. I talked with the Kuhn dealer he seems to think a rotary rake will give me a half a day quicker dry down, and the tedders he has sold do not get used often, but when needed they are an invaluable tool at that time. I have a number of questions and hoping someone here can help me some. I was pretty dead set on a rotary rake until today I veered back towards the tedder.
> 
> 
> How do the rotary rakes do behind a 9' cutter - windrow?
> ...


Go with a G-7 Twin star


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