# Alfalfa planting dates



## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So for our area Purdue recommends August 1st thru September 1st to plant alfalfa, usually for a fall seeding I like to have it done before the end of the third week of August, this year the first half of August was bone dry and I had nothing but powder to plant in, after the record breaking rains (over 13 inches over 3-4 days) I still have water standing on the one field and the other is way too sticky yet.

So the question is this, how far past the cutoff date have you gone in your area and still had a viable stand? I planted like the 7th to 8th of September once as was waiting on rain, then for it to dry back out (kinda like this year) but we also had a fall where we were hoping for a killing frost as the soybeans were a real booger to cut as the stems were still greenish, killing frost came a month late that year. Still making that field btw, its 5 or 6 years old now.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

Last fall, I planted OG under wheat after the beans came off--mid October. Beautiful stand! And I think a large part of this was due to the milder winters we've been having, plus the cover crop.

I'm getting ready to plant some alfalfa myself, hopefully next week. But I'm prepared to go as late as the 20th this year.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Last fall, I planted OG under wheat after the beans came off--mid October. Beautiful stand! And I think a large part of this was due to the milder winters we've been having, plus the cover crop.
> 
> I'm getting ready to plant some alfalfa myself, hopefully next week. But I'm prepared to go as late as the 20th this year.
> 
> Ralph


What do the "experts" claim is you're latest planting date?

In my area there is a big difference even from here to Kokomo, get south of Indy and its a different world practically.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> What do the "experts" claim is you're latest planting date?
> 
> In my area there is a big difference even from here to Kokomo, get south of Indy and its a different world practically.


Oct 23rd is first freeze date here. Back out minimum 6 weeks. But I like 8 or more. Most of the time, I plan on Aug 15th for alfalfa plant date.

Ralph


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mlappin said:


> What do the "experts" claim is you're latest planting date?


Mlap,

My experts (Mich State U or Moo U to the locals), says Aug 1 -15 in my area (I'm right smack in the middle of the band, page 11 of attached pdf file). This year I planted the 18th, usually I like to plant 7-8th of August. Because of when (or if) I get rain in August, for moisture / germination purposes. I like the alfalfa to get to 12 inches in height or better before freeze of 24 degrees. To Ralph's point milder winter might help (all though a couple of years ago it was not that mild here).

If I was you I would probably 'push' the limit, maybe even to the 10th of Sept (I don't know where you are in the Aug 15th -Sep 1 band). And if pushing it I might even go later, seeding some light amount of oats (which as you know would winter kill, but I would be after the 'cover' they would provide).

I am one to 'experiment' some, so (after Sep 15th) I might even use half the seed this fall with oats, frost seeding the other half.

My two cents, spending YOUR money, however. 

Larry


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I planted 30 Acres of DeKalb Roundup Ready alfalfa Seed bill was $4,400. That did not include fertilizer labor the cost to run the drill or the sprayer. I don't think I could find the courage, to do that September 1st


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Oct 23rd is first freeze date here. Back out minimum 6 weeks. But I like 8 or more. Most of the time, I plan on Aug 15th for alfalfa plant date.
> 
> Ralph


Ours is better than a week earlier, Oct 15th for first killing frost.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Ours is better than a week earlier, Oct 15th for first killing frost.


Then it's time to git'r done.

Ralph


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> Then it's time to git'r done.
> 
> Ralph


Can't plant in the mud anymore than I could pant in the dust.

Wish the weather would straighten up, so far being hard pressed just to get enough dry days in a row to make hay, let alone get the ground to dry


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

The guru's(and almanac) are forecasting a unusually warm fall late into the season.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Speaking of gambling,

Farmers are the biggest gamblers out there. You might not be able to put $100 on the blackjack table, but when it comes to planting the bets are bigger.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Our average first frost date is Nov. 15th. If you were to back off 6 wks, the planting date would be Oct. 1, or so. After waiting for rain to wet the soil, we planted on-farm alfalfa demonstration sites the first week in December and had excellent success (luck) with all six fields because the following weeks were quite mild temperature wise.

Like endrow said, I may not have the courage to do that at my own expense using RR alfalfa, *unless* I could not return the seed and get my money back; although I have had alfalfa seedlings in the cotyledon stage covered with about .5 inch of ice when the temperature dropped below freezing, and the alfalfa survived.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

After multiple tries over the last few years with different varieties of expensive alfalfa, such as LH resistant, fine stemmed, etc., I have decided to go with the cheapest generic seed I can find!

My thinking: The high-priced spreads have a stand life of only 3-4 years, partially (I think) due to the breeding characteristics and programs have strengthened certain traits and weakened others. Further, weevils and leaf hoppers have been on a rampage the past 6-8 years and insecticide effectiveness has diminished due to the EPA and the wet weather.

So , rather than spending a fortune for seed, I'm simply going cheap seed and planning on a stand life of 3 years. If I get more, great!

Just thinking....

Ralph


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

To push the envelope, base upon University of Wisconsin's latest day to cut alfalfa, is 500 Growth Degree Days (GDD). Alfalfa is different from corn, using a base temperature of 41 degrees (50 degrees is corn I believe, my hard drive memory is getting full and I don't grow corn anymore). The other factor is alfalfa stops growing after being exposed to 25 degree temperature (see UW-late-summer-cutting pdf attached). Using your hard frost date, you could work backwards to determine you ability to get 450-500 GDD (650 GDD is when you can start cutting). This 500 GDD, is what I use for my last cutting, hence my cut off for my last cutting in MY area is Sept 15. My recommended planting dates Aug 1 - Aug 15. Between this two dates, might be 'pushing' the envelope, BUT with desperate situations (flooded ground), this is where I would plant up to Sept 1 (15 days late) in MY area. Because I know there is the moisture available for the seed to germinate quickly and the plant get to the third trifoliolate stage (see PSU, pdf, page 4 for picture) I have seen alfalfa germinate in 48 hours, was 72 hours this year. According to UC piece the third trifoliotate is needed BEFORE a frost (UC-Frost PDF).

I attach a couple of pieces, that include what I think of as a alfalfa guru (Dan Understander, UW).

Larry

.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

rjmoses said:


> After multiple tries over the last few years with different varieties of expensive alfalfa, such as LH resistant, fine stemmed, etc., I have decided to go with the cheapest generic seed I can find!
> 
> My thinking: The high-priced spreads have a stand life of only 3-4 years, partially (I think) due to the breeding characteristics and programs have strengthened certain traits and weakened others. Further, weevils and leaf hoppers have been on a rampage the past 6-8 years and insecticide effectiveness has diminished due to the EPA and the wet weather.
> 
> ...


Im sort of thinking you are right. Have a 4 year stand of WL rr alfalfa that is getting thin. We used to have fields last 6-8 years. Though those varieties only allowed for 3 cuttings. New varieties we have to cut 4 times or leave a lot in the field. Plus I believe even though it's rr ready the roundup does diminish a stand.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> My thinking: The high-priced spreads have a stand life of only 3-4 years, partially (I think) due to the breeding characteristics and programs have strengthened certain traits and weakened others. Further, weevils and leaf hoppers have been on a rampage the past 6-8 years and insecticide effectiveness has diminished due to the EPA and the wet weather.
> 
> So , rather than spending a fortune for seed, I'm simply going cheap seed and planning on a stand life of 3 years. If I get more, great!
> 
> ...


Ralph,

I use to have your point of thinking BUT..........

I started keeping better records AND.......

In my area, on my fields, the leaf hopper resistant varieties (not RR) hybrids, have out produced the old stand by vernal I used in the past.

Here are MY numbers:

Worst 4 year average increase 0.78 tons an acre better, best 1.73 acre average increase. Using a 1.343 (my 4 year average increase) tons,

at 0.78 ton increase and $85 ton hay $198.90, $100 ton hay $234.00 and at $115 hay $269.10 (all per acre).

at 1.343 ton increase and $85 ton hay $342.47, $100 ton hay $402.90 and at $115 ton $463.34 (all per acre).

I have done my experiment in MY area (with different prices per ton, for example purposes), YOUR area could be different.

So far I have not had the need to use RR (and the associated cost of that technology) and some of my customers want grass mixed in the alfalfa.

My two or three cents worth.

Larry

Forgot to attach the MSU piece that supports your position and my position. Everything depends on TOO many variables.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

mlappin said:


> Can't plant in the mud anymore than I could pant in the dust.
> 
> Wish the weather would straighten up, so far being hard pressed just to get enough dry days in a row to make hay, let alone get the ground to dry


There's an old wives (farmers?) tale--"Plant in the dust." for alfalfa. wish I could get some dust this summer.

Ralph


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Plant in the dust bins will bust. In may we had a rough time getting the soil conditions for planting it was too wet but we got that straightened out according to the Davis weather station June 2.6 inches Angela .9 inches and up until last Saturday for August we had .7 then on Saturday we got two and a half inches it was a dry summer for us. It seems the rain and the storm is just went around us


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

rjmoses said:


> There's an old wives (farmers?) tale--"Plant in the dust." for alfalfa. wish I could get some dust this summer.
> 
> Ralph


Only problem that Mlap has is alfalfa, (at least in MY area), is the worse crop, when it comes to what my Dad called 'wet feet', it seems to drown faster than anything. Seems like just a hour under water and it's done. So nothing wrong with planting in the dust, TOO much rain, is just TOO much rain.

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

rjmoses said:


> There's an old wives (farmers?) tale--"Plant in the dust." for alfalfa. wish I could get some dust this summer.
> 
> Ralph


Dust is one thing, powder is another. Soil was so loose, when I went to the field to change a wheel bearing on the disc I had to lock the pickup in four wheel drive, no way could we have packed that stuff enough to get a firm seedbed.

Besides, if I had planted in the dust, the one field would be full of little gully now and the other would have been half drowned out.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I differ from many people in planting philosophies. For overseeding or patch jobs, late summer is the only time 2 seed. But for my big seedings , lots of acreage with high price alfalfa seed I want to do those in the spring


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

And another 1" and 4/10ths over night. Was hoping we might actually plant it this week, had some sunny days and a good breeze, water is back to standing on the one. Normally is never a problem on that field, but after 11 plus inches over night the water table is very high now, have probably had close to another three inches since the big rain.

Now the forecast calls for rain most of this week right up till Labor Day weekend then not so hot (low 80's) but very high humidity.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

If the seed wasn't so d..., expensive, you could feed it to the ducks on your present 'ponds', hoping for their digestive system to let a few seeds past, untouched and waa la your planting would be done without you cutting up the field. 

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Planted the larger one Sep 6th, was a tad dryer than I would have liked for the most part but the low spots were a tad sticky yet.

Planted the smaller one Sep 7th, had one spot in the lowest spot along a tree line we could work but no way was going to drag the cultimulcher/drill/packer combo thru it so hand seeded that.

One problem with no-till, this was disked then field cultivated twice, spent hours along the fence rows with a small chainsaw cutting tree roots off the field cultivator brought up.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mlappin said:


> One problem with no-till, this was disked then field cultivated twice, spent hours along the fence rows with a small chainsaw cutting tree roots off the field cultivator brought up.


Yep, after 25-30 years I at first couldn't figure out, why the edges of my fields were always with a lighter crop, until one day when I was digging up a rock and hit some pretty good sized tree roots. Rocks breed, grow and multiply in my area, but that is a different story.) And a light when off, I hadn't mow-board or chisel plowed in years, the tree roots were just growing farther and father out in the fields.

Though about making a one tooth, chisel plow or sub-soiler to cut the roots. Didn't ever get it done, BUT I have bought a stump grinder that I have ran along the sides of most of my fields with trees. Wow, I have cut roots as big as 5-6 inches, that were growing out into the field. I know I wouldn't want to chisel plow those fields for several years, or I have mlap's problem, cutting, picking up all those roots. :angry:

Larry


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

r82230 said:


> Yep, after 25-30 years I at first couldn't figure out, why the edges of my fields were always with a lighter crop, until one day when I was digging up a rock and hit some pretty good sized tree roots. Rocks breed, grow and multiply in my area, but that is a different story.) And a light when off, I hadn't mow-board or chisel plowed in years, the tree roots were just growing farther and father out in the fields.
> 
> Though about making a one tooth, chisel plow or sub-soiler to cut the roots. Didn't ever get it done, BUT I have bought a stump grinder that I have ran along the sides of most of my fields with trees. Wow, I have cut roots as big as 5-6 inches, that were growing out into the field. I know I wouldn't want to chisel plow those fields for several years, or I have mlap's problem, cutting, picking up all those roots. :angry:
> 
> Larry


Before round up beans, we had a horrible problem with mulberry saplings in the sand fields, ended up plowing them, then used a harrow to get all the roots and branches, get it packed full of crap then back up under the high tensile lines and shake it out as much as possible.

Now between getting burned down in the spring with RU and 2-4d then another dose of RU when spraying beans none of the sapling ever get big enough to cause problems while cutting beans.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Had flash flood warnings out last night, had 2 1/2" in a very short time, the one field looks to be okay, just two little puddles, may go back and hand spread those, the other is a mess. No gullies like after the 13" but a bunch of little washes that could be drove thru, but it washed the seed too, may have to wait to spring and re-work and replant the western third which is on a hillside. This is just a from the road view, too wet to walk around on it, may wait a few days and take the Polaris out and see what the opposite side of the hill looks like, hate to tear the whole think up but may have too come spring.


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## ozarkian (Dec 11, 2010)

deadmoose said:


> Speaking of gambling,
> 
> Farmers are the biggest gamblers out there. You might not be able to put $100 on the blackjack table, but when it comes to planting the bets are bigger.


I see a lot of farmers in the casinos. I sometimes think casino odds are better.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

ozarkian said:


> I see a lot of farmers in the casinos. I sometimes think casino odds are better.


At least there you know you are screwed before you even start.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

So, took the chance and planted late, now they are talking an early frost/freeze by ten days, October 5th instead of the 15th.

Question is this, is seedling alfalfa as cold tolerant as established alfalfa?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

mlappin said:


> Question is this, is seedling alfalfa as cold tolerant as established alfalfa?


Good question, I never have seen any trials on this. Maybe some University will do a study someday.

Makes me think thou, we use to plant alfalfa with winter wheat, didn't starting planting until after Sept 15 (Hessin fly free date) and alfalfa survived. Heat from wheat or just the snow holding factor????

Larry


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