# New to farming



## Davedavis (Sep 22, 2009)

Hi everyone , Im Dave I am planing on buying a small farm id like to raise grass fed cattle on and wondered what type of grasses would work best for a southern Indiana location that has well drained soils..any other questions i can answer I'll be happy to toss in if they help.. Also what types of equiptment makes what dfferance, Ive heard some bush hoggs can be made for cutting vs cutter/teaders and raking etc.Thanks in advance..Dave


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## downtownjr (Apr 8, 2008)

Where you at in Southern Indiana? I knew a Dave Davis about 8 years ago in the AF...wouldn't be him would you? Stationed at Goodfellow AFB, Texas together. Thought I would ask.

Anyway...do you have any equipment yet? How many cattle you raising? Storage for equipment and hay in additional to cattle shelter?

There are a few guys on the site down your way...a few of them probably sell seed...you need a good pasture mix for the cattle...look into intensive grazing with a paddock system...I'll get the Purdue link for you. How much hay you need depends on number of cattle...round bales are good for that and can be stored outside inside sleeves or netwrap and keep decently and are easy for a one man operation. Sometimes you can rent a round baler at a local dealer. A haybine and rake are a must...tedder maybe if you have a lot of ground...depends on the scope of your operation. No need to go to big if you do have to...also hiring custom help or buying hay may be an option until you get comfortable with the operation. Have to sharpen a pencil to see what is best for you.

good luck,


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## UpNorth (Jun 15, 2009)

Before you make the leap in the grass-fed beef business you need sit down and crunch some hard numbers and think through on some of the bigger business issues.

1. What's your market and what will you be paid per pound of hanging weight (carcass on the rack) for your beef. Are just planing to have the local butcher process your cattle and sell directly to people, restaurants, farmers market etc. or are you just selling them at auction. How many competitors do you have for you market?

2. How quickly can you pay back the loans you'll need to make to buy this land? Additionally how long will the income from selling the beef pay for the fencing, water lines, grass seed, equipment, fertilizer, heribicide, mortgage payment etc.

3. How much time can you devote to this? There's another post on this website about a goldminer out west wanting to get into the hay making business that you should read through even though you're business plan is different.

4. Is there anyone near you with experience with running a grass-fed beef operation? There a hundreds of farmer to farmer networks out there and contacting a local one would be a huge asset.

That being said if you can devote the time needed, have a market, and can cash flow the operations I would plant pure stands of tall or meadow fescue (endophyte-free or endophyte+ varieties). Almost everyone you'll talk to in the pasture world is going swear up and down by mixes of grasses (warm and cool season), legumes, and forbs. There are many valid reasons to consider mixes, but I would just stick to well managed pure stands-Tall and meadow fescue will yield very well and have pretty good drought tolerance. This would involve controlling some early weeds with a broadleaf heribicide, applying N after some of the grazing periods, etc.

Management intensive rotational grazing is the best way to go east of the Mississippi. Read up as much as you can on this practice and visit some farms.

If your market allows your cows to be fed some non-grasses like forbs I would consider adding forage turnips into the rotation of you pastures when you want to renovate them (3-6 years after planting). Their forage quality is very similar to grain and would probably help shorten the time needed to get the animal to market. Most markets won't take animals older than 30 months and 16-18 months is the lower range that beef producers can get the animals to market.

Before you get deep into the details of the pastures you really should think about the numbered questions above. If those things are in order then dive into the specifics of managing the pastures.

By the way if you're married-make sure your spouse is on board with this and how much work it will take to make it happen.

I'm not trying to scare you out of the business, but it's hard enough to make farming work when everything lines up with finances, weather, prices, machinery, etc. and I don't want you to go into this with the deck stacked against you.

Here's the link to the other post. http://www.haytalk.com/forums/f2/hay-questions-1069/


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## Blue Duck (Jun 4, 2009)

UpNorth I have farmed and raised beef for 18+ years and you about scared me out of the business LOL but all valid points that should be considered


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## nwfarmer (Jun 16, 2009)

Becareful buying any used farm equipment. Farmers usually hold on to the equipment that works and sell the stuff that doesn't.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

nwfarmer said:


> Becareful buying any used farm equipment. Farmers usually hold on to the equipment that works and sell the stuff that doesn't.


Exactly, keep the gems and peddle the stinkers. Too bad couldn't do that with family huh?


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## Airspace1 (Apr 22, 2009)

Davedavis said:


> Hi everyone , Im Dave I am planing on buying a small farm id like to raise grass fed cattle on and wondered what type of grasses would work best for a southern Indiana location that has well drained soils..any other questions i can answer I'll be happy to toss in if they help.. Also what types of equiptment makes what dfferance, Ive heard some bush hoggs can be made for cutting vs cutter/teaders and raking etc.Thanks in advance..Dave


I recently used a bush hog rotary while the grass was about 3 foot tall then raked it and later baled. It came up fine and looks and smells great.


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## sedurbin (May 30, 2009)

If you are talking about a regular Brush Hog type rotary cutter; I would think it would chop it up too much and you would loose a lot of tonnage. Other than that, I guess it would work


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## Airspace1 (Apr 22, 2009)

sedurbin said:


> If you are talking about a regular Brush Hog type rotary cutter; I would think it would chop it up too much and you would loose a lot of tonnage. Other than that, I guess it would work


I was very hesitant Yet I was hearing a few people tell me. I use two sickles but its still very time consumping with tall grass. 
I was shocked I ran it fast enough so I wouldnt over chop yet enough to do the job. Geez was it fast after letting it sit for one full day an after baled one baled proved to be so soft so lite and smell great I was happy. I usually bale heavy around 80lbs but a few women and two guys ask me if I could go lighter so I did which was now baled at around 45 to 50lbs very light for me messing around with..


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## Davedavis (Sep 22, 2009)

Thanks to all ,Its a 75 acre place and my wife and son are eager to help we are a close family and young ..I dont have all the info id like to have when it comes to marketing meats so im learning that aspect as well (any input here is also helpful i like all the ideas and opinions i can get as it helps me make decisions too) We basicaly plan to grow grass(es) and rotate maybe 40 cows about the land and sell them(for as much as you can reasonablely) to help pay for the place.


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

I hope that you are referring to selling "cows" in the generic sense for I would think that if it is cow meat that you are marketing you will be in tough, pun intended.

To sell grass fed beef, or any beef for that matter, you need to identify what market you are selling into. The home freezer, cuts from your shop or both. Are you looking to market younger beef or older beef, what age are you putting on the carcass and is it dry or wet aged (packaged in COV bags). Are you catering to the lean market or the people who like heavy marbling. Will you be slaughtering in a small facility or a large kill plant. Are you going to finish with grain or do they finish on grass only.

You need to put your mind to some of these things before you get out there in front of your customers. You need to find a niche because you will not be able to be all things to all people, especially in a small operation. If you are going lean then you might consider one of the exotic breeds, fat and you look to the British for they will fatten on grass quite well.

Your flavour will be determined by age, fat content, slaughter method and hanging technique. Today a lot of aging is done in the bag so you come off with one advantage if you can hang the carcass for minimum 16 days. If you can offer good cutting services that will go a long way to keeping your customers happy a good European butcher offers you the best options if they know American cuts as well.

Our CFIA controls slaughter of animals (Canada) and I would imagine that USDA has a lot of restrictions for slaughter as well. One ability we have is that a person can slaughter on farm site for their own consumption. So you can sell an animal on the hoof and let the people kill it on your site (Canada). Now this is a very loose interpretation of our laws but it is very common practice. So once the snow hits home slaughter begins at my place. Others do it all year long but that scares me some.

You need a costing sheet to break out your live weight; dressed weight; cut out weight (bone in/bone out); shrinkage in the hang. Some of these weights will vary somewhat by breed. This is important because this is where the money is for you will most probably be selling on the dressed weight to the home freezer group and by cuts to the others which will present the challenge of pricing your cuts correctly to get the value out of the animal.

Somewhere I have a cut out sheet that prices the animal giving the appropriate weight breaks. I need to clean it up a bit but I could do so and send it to you. It is on XL so it transfers electronically. Give me a private message and I will send it to your email. Over the forum it will run out of character capacity ... unless I did the last one wrong.

Take care


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## Chessiedog (Jul 24, 2009)

Dave 
I think it would be awfully hard to raise 40 head on 75 acres especially grass fed. Unless your talking 20 cows plus calves .Then it still would be pretty hard to feed that many head. You can raise 20 cows on that plus calves but then trying to feed out 20 calves on grass I don't see that happening. Just take a look 20 cows ,then if you should calve 100 percent and get 20 calves ,that is 40 head ,it's going to take those 20 calves 16 months or more to get to market weight on grass. So now your looking at 60 head on 75 acres . I my self just don't see how that many cattle could work out .Plus unless your going to buy all your hay some of that ground is going to have to be used for hay ground . Even if your 75 acres are all tillable type ground that many cattle would be near impossible to mange on it .


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## BCFENCE (Jul 26, 2008)

Thats what i was thinking, He could raise 20 cows and 20 calves then wean the calves and put them in a feed lot that would work.
THOMAS


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## Dano1124 (Mar 30, 2009)

I have heard use @ 4 AC per head as a rule...

Equipment is expensive...just getting started...a tractor with a bale spear and bucket...70+ horses...anything smaller may not handle the next round of equipment purchases.

There are some deals out there on stuff...lots of guys going under or calling it a day...repos are one to look at as long as you get them looked at by a pro before purchase to make sure they are operational and have no real hidden issues. Buyer beware...

Water is always important...creek, waters, ponds...if your going to cross fence make sure they can get to water all year long from each section. Breaking ice in Dec-Feb is not fun...

Oh yeah...shots and wormer...got to have a way to get them in to a head cute...and off to market...

2 cents


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