# Something is eating my alfalfa up fast



## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Walked into my alfalfa field this afternoon and sure didnt expect to see what I did. The large majority of the field the leaves have been almost completely eaten down to the stem. The plants look healthy and didn't see any obvious insect pests. What could this have been? It's almost as if it has been eaten overnight. Not sure what the best thing to do at this point is.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Sounds like army worms Hayden.

Regards, Mike


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Army worms for sure. Little [email protected]@kers just cleaned me out too. Just mowed 140 acres last two days to save what was left. Worst field was 55 acres. I noticed Wednesday evening that it had a small white spot about a half acre on a knob in the middle of the field. It did not concern me as it is reclaimed coal mine ground and small off colored patches or places where grass might outgrow alfalfa is not uncommon so I did not investigate. I was back Thursday and it was a little bigger, maybe an acre. When I got there with the mower at 1:30 Saturday, the off colored spot was 35 acres of skeleton stems and they were rapidly eating the lower leaves of the rest of field. Was only going to mow that field but found them everywhere so I knocked it all down. Almost made me sick when I seen the damage. I have had and seen army worms before but never in alfalfa. They have always attacked wheat or corn in the spring and had them in seedling barley 2 years ago.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Well damn I didn't know I would have to deal with army worms in alfalfa. If there were that many worms to eat the alfalfa down that fast you would have thought I would have seen them crawling everywhere. Most of what I have heard about army worms being a problem is in Bermuda grass.

At this point there are certain patches of the field that all but the top couple leaves have been eaten and other patches of the field untouched but it sounds like it will only get worse fast. The alfalfa is about a foot tall and still in the vegative stage. I had planned on letting this alfalfa go another 10 to 14 days and let it bloom some as the last cutting I took off was pre bud and it was a bit slow regrowing this time and I wanted to let it have plenty of energy going into its first winter.

Do I need to spray for the worms or is the damage done and I would be better off cutting it as soon as the weather permits?


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

A few pics from yesterday. Mine was about 30 days.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> Well damn I didn't know I would have to deal with army worms in alfalfa. If there were that many worms to eat the alfalfa down that fast you would have thought I would have seen them crawling everywhere. Most of what I have heard about army worms being a problem is in Bermuda grass.
> At this point there are certain patches of the field that all but the top couple leaves have been eaten and other patches of the field untouched but it sounds like it will only get worse fast. The alfalfa is about a foot tall and still in the vegative stage. I had planned on letting this alfalfa go another 10 to 14 days and let it bloom some as the last cutting I took off was pre bud and it was a bit slow regrowing this time and I wanted to let it have plenty of energy going into its first winter.
> Do I need to spray for the worms or is the damage done and I would be better off cutting it as soon as the weather permits?


I believe I would cut....what were your plans for the alfalfa? If small squares then perhaps spray and wait the required days to harvest. If its a bad infestation, I'll bale it for cow hay (good protein!) and roll it.....don't need worms in my squares.....

Look again at the field, should find a few.......they'll be adults like the pics that 101 posted, if they're small and green, that's another batch waitin to eat....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> A few pics from yesterday. Mine was about 30 days.


 That looks like the same damage mine has except it's not that bad yet. I will look closer tomorrow for the worms.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> I believe I would cut....what were your plans for the alfalfa? If small squares then perhaps spray and wait the required days to harvest. If its a bad infestation, I'll bale it for cow hay (good protein!) and roll it.....don't need worms in my squares.....
> Look again at the field, should find a few.......they'll be adults like the pics that 101 posted, if they're small and green, that's another batch waitin to eat....


 Was supposed to be square baled for horse hay. It has to be square baled one way or another as there is no round baler here......I hate to have another cutting of alfalfa to give away for cow hay. Last cutting wouldn't dry enough and I baled it wet to get it off the field......wasn't fun picking up those heavy wet bales to give away.


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## ARD Farm (Jul 12, 2012)

Nasty looking critters, wonder if they make good fish bait?

Up here we get potato leaf hoppers.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I hate it for you Hayden.

I was on the look out for them and they still got me. It seems Army Worms are more wide spread this year than I have ever known.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Thnk i would spray and wait...usually 7-10 days


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I went by the field today again and looked closer and I found worms......once I started looking for them they were everywhere......most of them were about 1.5 inches long and a little greener than the worms in haybalers picture and there were also some very small ones that were almost all green. I forgot to take a camera with me to take a picture of them.

The weather doesn't look like it is going to be favorable for making hay at least for a week so I guess I'm going to have to spray. What would be best to use and not have a terribly long waiting period for cutting hay?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

BT should have a short period


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

*P.S. BT is Bacillus thuringiensis a bio control. You will have to call your **supplier and get the label info. The spray to harvest should be very short.*


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I sprayed with Permethrin SFR in the Bermuda pasture and did not pull the cows off. It killed them graveyard dead.

Until this year I had never heard of Army Worms in anything other than Bermuda. This year they have infested Bahia, Fescue and even eaten Johnson Grass.

We do not have much Alfalfa grown here, never thought they had an appetite for legumes. Guess they have evolved some.

Out of curiosity, did you notice more birds than usual in your Alfalfa?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

Found a product called Agree. Label says can be sprayed up to the day of harvest. http://www.certisusa.com/pdf-labels/Agree_WG_label.pdf


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Tim/South said:


> I sprayed with Permethrin SFR in the Bermuda pasture and did not pull the cows off. It killed them graveyard dead.
> Until this year I had never heard of Army Worms in anything other than Bermuda. This year they have infested Bahia, Fescue and even eaten Johnson Grass.
> We do not have much Alfalfa grown here, never thought they had an appetite for legumes. Guess they have evolved some.
> Out of curiosity, did you notice more birds than usual in your Alfalfa?


 A few song sparrows around the edge and 2 turkeys was all the birds I saw when mowing the alfalfa. Are birds normally attracted to alfalfa or something? I'm the only one anywhere close around here that is growing alfalfa.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

FarmerCline said:


> A few song sparrows around the edge and 2 turkeys was all the birds I saw when mowing the alfalfa. Are birds normally attracted to alfalfa or something? I'm the only one anywhere close around here that is growing alfalfa.


Lol, they're attracted to the damned army worms! They love em....and I love them for that! But, it used to be that you could rely on the "cow birds" them white birds to give ya a little forewarning, but like I said in a earlier post, them white birds done got on some kinda gummit program....must be gettin free meals at the worm galley cause I ain't seen one in two years until they done ate me out if house and home....the sparrows, blackbirds and thrashers ain't got the memo yet (may be some form of racism, not sure) because I have seen them present.....give em a lil time, only thing you'll be able to use is a drone...or ride the fields......yep, them was the good ole days, see a few "Cow birds" and you better go check for worms.....now if you see em, you've lost half your crop...


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

I used a generic of lambda....$40 a gallon, 3-4 opa, like tim said, graveyard dead after 1 pass.....I like to see em thrashing around on the second pass......get em quick, already shoulda sprayed, they're eatin as were typing.....purty much any pyrethroid...have used seven in a pinch, just kinda pricey and stinks (seems to stay in the soil)


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Lol, they're attracted to the damned army worms! They love em....and I love them for that! But, it used to be that you could rely on the "cow birds" them white birds to give ya a little forewarning, but like I said in a earlier post, them white birds done got on some kinda gummit program....must be gettin free meals at the worm galley cause I ain't seen one in two years until they done ate me out if house and home....the sparrows, blackbirds and thrashers ain't got the memo yet (may be some form of racism, not sure) because I have seen them present.....give em a lil time, only thing you'll be able to use is a drone...or ride the fields......yep, them was the good ole days, see a few "Cow birds" and you better go check for worms.....now if you see em, you've lost half your crop...


 Didn't think about birds being attracted to the army worms......that sounded too good to be true. Didn't see any today when I was checking the field for worms. Those white cow birds you are talking about must be cattle egrets? They haven't moved this far north yet.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

Going to spray as soon as I can.....rained today and will have to give it a day or two to dry so I don't leave tracks in the ground.


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## tarrquinn (Jul 5, 2014)

I would spray 2 day not worry about tracks they will clean you up in no time
We get them here in aus in most grasses or legumes depending on season ...bastard things ,mind boggling how much they can eat in 24 hours, watch out for second wave in a couple of weeks


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Cattle egrets....that's right, we've ruined the egrets....


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I got what was left of my alfalfa sprayed yesterday.....some places have not been eaten too bad but others are 3/4 defoliated. I could have sprayed 2 days sooner but I decided that losing a cutting was better than getting on the field too wet and having to deal with ruts the next few years.

I decided this morning to run by one of my fields of sorghum/sudan to see how it was growing and the army worms have moved into it and were down in the whorl of new leaves eating away. I got it sprayed today.....I think I caught it soon enough that it will be okay. I sure hope this is not going to be a new pest I have to deal with regularly.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Bad deal Cline. Hope you got em soon enough.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Glad you caught them in the sudan before they caused much damage.

I hope the alfalfa can put on some leaves before it has to be cut. I am assuming the leaves will come back? We had the stems on Bermuda regrow, hoping the alfalfa is geared to do the same.

With the number of Army Worms reported this year it looks like they have a foot hold. It will take everyone spraying them before they turn into moths and fly away to reproduce.

You ended the gene pool of the ones you sprayed today.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Recently I observed an increasing number of yellow stems in our alfalfa patch so suspected three cornered alfalfa hopper. Ten sweeps with the net caught an estimated 200+ of the three triangulated critters. These guys girdle the stems about 1/4th to 1/2 inch above the soil surface cutting off the flow of nutrients and water to the stem above the girdled area. They lay eggs in this girdled area. I sprayed with Lambda Select at 0.34 oz/ac Wednesday PM and this morning (Friday) I found none of the hoppers jumping around. This insecticide also killed any other insects, larva, and moths that showed up in the sweep net. Hated to have to also take out any Lady Beetle that were present.

And yes, army worms love alfalfa as they do any other forage. Saw how they skeletonized a cooperators alfalfa in the year 2002.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

vhaby said:


> And yes, army worms love alfalfa as they do any other forage. Saw how they skeletonized a cooperators alfalfa in the year 2002.


This is educational to me. Living where Bermuda is king we never hear much about army worms other than when they infest a Bermuda field.

This year they were in Bahia, Fescue and even Johnson grass.

Has it been established how far north army worms can survive?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I do know they got as far North as Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana as haybaler 101 lost a field of alfalfa about a week ago.

Regards, Mike


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

They come into NorthernMN from time to time. I remember a golf course getting half the leaves on its trees wiped out by army worms as a youngster. They were everywhere that summer.


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