# Difference between kicker bales and other bales (I am a consumer)



## BJB (Jul 8, 2014)

I purchase hay for my horses. In our state (Michigan) we have various sizes of bales, and I am talking small squares, and I am trying to educate myself to be able to buy the best for my $$$. Some bales are not tight (I figure they adjust their balers to get more bales) and very light ... like 35 lbs. Others produce 45 to 50 lbs bales and are a little shorter bale but tightly baled and then there are those that have 65 to 80 pound bales and are much bigger bales. My questions are using a kick baler are the bales lighter and small compared to other balers (like a 338)? The smaller, lighter bales are the same cost as the larger. Both kinds of bales appear to be dry and put up correctly. Can you give me any hints or clues why there would be such a difference ... other than to make more money ... for this difference! I think kicker balers loosen up the ropes on the bales and cause problems ... unless it is an adjustment issue with the operator, but the result is messy bales.

Thanks for your input

BJB


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

What is a kicker baler? And ropes on bales? However with small bales the difference between loose and tight bales is nearly always the operator either not knowing how to bale hay, a baler not adjusted properly, or the operator not paying attention to hay conditions. Hay bales that are tight, but still not weigh very much is most likely grass hay with some stems that might or might have been baled too dry. In my opinion no hay bale should be so loose that the twine (maybe what you are calling rope) is super loose on the bale that when you pick the bale up using the twine is 3+ inches side of the bale.

Length is up to the person baling and what they are using to stack the bales.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Low bale weight, assuming these people are selling by the bale, is probably a function of how much profit they think they can make before buyers start to complain. (Some farmers make smaller and lighter bales as they age or if their labor force is too young, but if they are honest they will charge accordingly for those.) Regardless of whether someone is using a thrower/kicker or dropping bales on the ground, a solid and heavy bale can be made. Whenever possible, buying per ton will save you these questions. If not, carry a spring scale (even a bathroom scale) with you if you're going to look at hay for sale and be away how much each of those bales is costing per pound, not per bale. Or else just buy those heavy ones that are the same price as the light ones!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thrower or kicker balers (at least in my experience with New Holland balers) tend to handle shorter bales-34-36" bales handle fine. When you get much longer, the twine is exposed to the thrower belts too long and you get too much burn through or busted bales. I run my baler at 1.25 atmospheres, so the bales are quite tight but moisture differences in the field will create differences in twine tension from bale to bale. the more moisture up to the acceptable limit, the tighter the bale, but the more it will loosen as drying takes place in the barn. I personally have no use for loose bales because someone won't adjust the tension correctly.

As Teslan said, if you use bundlers or aggregation equipment or ship in box trailers, etc, all of those things drive your necessary bale length(regardless of weight or tension). I now shoot for 40-50 pound bales as I was requested to make bales lighter by my clients. Many equestrian eventing barns are staffed exclusively or near exclusively by females and they are just really not interested (as a group) in bussing 50#+ bales. I used to drop 42" bales on the ground. Now I am not as tired and make more money.

Also, to your question on loose strings on twine tied bales- The baler operator has an adjustment for speed on belt throwers which controls the distance thrown. If you have a 16" wagon and you are blowing each bale into the back rack (side) then your bales undergo damage on each throw. A good operator knows how to place 10-20% of the load so that bales land on bales rather than hitting the racks with such force that the bale does a bananna imatation. Hope this helps you understand.

BTW-at least with thrower balers I am familiar with, there is no requirement that bales be 30"- a farmers wives tale I heard as a teenager!


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## BJB (Jul 8, 2014)

Thanks guys your information has been very informative and it does help me make my decision ... I also do not sound like I am "out to lunch" when I talk with the farmers. Especially those that are selling the loose 35# bales!


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

I've had more customers ask me to back off the weight than to make a heavier bale. Yes a kicker bale might be shorter than some but it needs to be tight or it will break when its launched into the wagon. Most of my bales are 40-45lbs and I've found the guy who put them on the ground actually tend towards a lighter looser bale cause its easier to pick up.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

Remember that there are more than one size small square two wire/twine bales. The typical size of balers is 14" X 18" or 16" X 18". The length as stated above is adjustable. It depends on the method that a person uses to pick up and handle the bales they produce.

Around "here" all hay is purchased by the ton rather than the bale. A calculator will come in handy for you. Some folks somehow fail to use one and can pay a lot of money for hay.

Different varieties of grass hay bale up differently also.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

I still have our 16x18 inch baler. It easily bales 65lb grass bales and 75 lb alfalfa bales. Before we went totally to large squares new hay customers would complain about the weight of the bales (They rarely would notice the size being larger). Saying they must be wet inside. Once I pointed out the larger size and people sort of understood they still didn't appreciate the greater weight and most certainly wouldn't pay more for a larger bale People loading semi trucks would complain they couldn't get as many bales on, which is true. This is why I'm going to trade or sell the baler (but it's hard to part with such a well built baler). If I get back into small bales ever again I'll be buying a 14 inch baler and make those 50 lb bales.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Around these parts the word "kicker bale". Refers to the bale being small and light weight. With the misguided reference that the bale needed to be made that way in order to be "kicked" in a wagon. Over the years I've run into quite a few customers who are blown away by the size of the bales I make. ( To all the jokers out there, this is where you snicker) To me its what i grew up with, a 36" long a least 40# bale. They have been purchasing 24" 20# bales for years. 
Needles to say, I've picked up a few customers. In the process I've picked up a few 24" bales with amazement, I've since referred to them as wall-mart hay. 
With this said, a "kicker". Will easily handle a 36" bale. 
Cheers, I hope all these responses have help't. A well educated customer base only helps the customers and the supplieres refine their businesses. 
Cheers,


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Thats exactly what I was going to say, but you did a much better job. "Kicker" bales is pretty much a derogatory term. And completely right on with the comparison, put my baler after its been shot out the baler against a bale that's been laying on the ground for a day or 2.


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## BJB (Jul 8, 2014)

All of you have been very helpful with your replys ... sure wish some of you were baling hay in my area! Truly the hardest part of owning horses is purchasing the hay and finding a dependable hay person. Thanks again for everything.

BJB


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## shortrow (Feb 21, 2012)

BJB said:


> All of you have been very helpful with your replys ... sure wish some of you were baling hay in my area! Truly the hardest part of owning horses is purchasing the hay and finding a dependable hay person. Thanks again for everything.
> 
> BJB


I could be a more dependable hay person with more dependable weather. Sure is dry here.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Its been covered but most throwers I've been around won't fill the rack well with anything much over 34" / 45 lbs and the breakage gets pretty bad on long bales in slippy grass hay so they usually shoot for 40 lb bales. The bale baron comes from an area of Canada with heavy kicker use so has a bit smaller bale size than some would like to see.

Also, here kicker guys tend to use preservative and bale a bit on the wet side so bales that were 40 lbs and tight going in sometimes are 30 lb and loose when sold.


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