# Just starting up custom Haying



## Dano1124

I just started up doing some custom haying...real new to the game.

I have made some investments in equipment in the last 15 months:

2008 Kubota M9540 4WD..95 HP
2009 NH 6750 disk mower 9'2" cut
10 wheel rake&#8230;works great.
NH 851 round baler...older, works great and makes 15-1700 LB bales 5X6 string wrap
NH 273 Hayliner square baler, older but had it gone through at dealership and is as good as new.
Hay Buzzer 6 round bale mover (Gooseneck)
Ford F350 with hyrda bed bale mover
2005 LoadMax flatbed with hydraulic dove tail 36' ...

So...I'm are ready to go for this year.

I already have @ 190-290 acres to do...three locations. I'm thinking I can do more...just don't want to over commit and loose customers and get a bad reputation. With the above equipment how many acres do you think I could do? I'm located in Missouri (45 mis SE of KC, Mo.).

Thanks in advance,
Dano


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## swmnhay

Not enough info.What kind of hay and how many cuttings?Do you expect to cut it early for high quality or some for grinding hay?One tractor?How many people?Just baling or in the barn?Road time in between fields?How many tons per acre?


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## Dano1124

I guess I better add some more info...

I'm working within a 50 mile area mostly. My flatbed allows me to move the tractor, mower and round baler all in one haul. I need to bring the rake along on a second trip. I drop the trailer and bring the rake on day two. I have some help but late in the day&#8230;they have day jobs.

We expect two cuttings...end of May-middle of June and a second in late Sep.

Depending on what is needed we will add an additional charge if they want the round put up&#8230;we will stack in the field for no charge.

As for tons per acre&#8230;if my numbers are right:

90 rounds at 14-1500 per round =130,500 (used 1450 per bale).
@ 95 acres&#8230;I figure it at 1373 lbs per acre

There is no irrigation on the land.

This was just one place we did last year&#8230;some are better some are worse.


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## kshayharvester

I live real close to you and I usually figure around 2 bales to the acre with brome hay. I make mine 5 1/2 foot tall and five ft wide and they weigh 1500 lbs. Well fertilized hay should average this or maybe a little better. I went to the local natural resources center { ASCS} and got a custom rate book to see what ave prices are for mowing raking and baling. I would advise the same, one headache I can see is you have one tractor doing all the work. That's alot of changing from mower, rake, baler, I know this because I am doing the same thing. LOL And when you break down your in a pickle unless you have a neighbor with a tractor you can rent or borrow. 
I was in the same position you are about 5 years ago when I decided to do custom baling, and things were REAL tight for a while, but if you stay commited you will do fine. Especially around KC where you can sell to some horse people that are willing to pay top dollar for good hay, and they really don't know what it should cost to put up hay. Talk to people and maybe run an ad in the paper or on Craigs list.com. 
I would say you can handle more acres than that if you are commited and we don't have a wet year like the last one, You should be able to do 1500 + bales the first year and work up to around 3000+ within 4 yrs. 
Good luck and keep us informed on your progress!
Tyler
Atchison KS


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## Dano1124

Thanks for the post&#8230;

I understand the one tractor thing&#8230;mine is new 95HP (80 hours) so I hope for few break downs. I do have access to a 55 HP&#8230;if things go bad. We tried it with his last year and the baler was too much for it&#8230;It would do fine with a smaller bale I guess&#8230;5X6's was asking a lot from it.

As for hook ups&#8230;I just bought a 2009 NH 6750 disk mower&#8230;it's real fast to hook up after you get it set the first time. The rake is a pin and two lines&#8230;baler is a bout the same.

From what everyone is telling me the slowest part will be the cutting and the baling other than the hauling. I will have an extra set of hands late in the day.

I am going to put an add in the local paper and the add paper for the area (Johnson / Pettis /Henry County Missouri) for the baling. I will put an add in the KC Sunday paper for sales and delivery.

My folks live in Maine and think I could sell up there&#8230;need to wait a little on that one. Long way to haul big rounds&#8230;


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## kfarm_EC_IL

My advise is the same I try to follow anytime we look at adding an enterprise to our farm. Start small and slowly grow or stop. We feel that try new things is a necessary part of farming today, therefore we have tried, failed, suceeded in several things.

I don't want to screw one enterprise for the sake of starting a new one. OK but that is not your situation, your starting from scratch. Still you can always add acres of custom as you go. Especially if you are caught up. I gained several acres of custom work in 08 due to the terrible weather. Almost all of those people had us bale agian later in the year and asked about this year.  The balers that were to do these acres would've normally been able to handle it if it had not been for the weather. Price wise we were the same or I was higher. The key I think would be to have the ablitiy/ flexibilty to do more if it becomes avaible.

I can tell how many acres you should do too, but that is under my circumstance. The best judge of what you will truely be able to do is 3 years from now. And that doesn't do you any good here. So take the above ideas and make a conservative estimate. Be comfortable in ability to get the work done. This will pay off with your customers and word of mouth advertising.

My last thought is this: nothing wrong with working hard either and going for it!

Good luck, asking for ideas was a strong first step.

Mark K


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## Dano1124

Thanks Mark K,

Dad always said, work hard when you can...you don't want to do it forever!

Dano


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## FarminFirefighter

Hey Dano, I am in the same position, I just recently entered the custom haying game...I invested in a bale baron over the winter...I just contracted about 300 acres of straw today..with people calling all the time...I am scared to over committ...I also have been looking for suggestions on pricing..so Good luck..Sounds like your in good shape equipment wise..I can tell you it pays to have good equipment to start...


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## chh

My wife and I just started custom baling last year. I kind of went overboard on the equipment side. A near new MF2746A baler, slightly used rake, 2 9' Krone mowers, new MF cab tractor and my open MF 4243. Added another near new 70 Montana cab tractor late in the year as a dedicated mowing tractor. I know it sounds funny 3 tractors for 2 people, but it saved a lot of changing mowers on and off(my back isn't what it used to be). We turned right at 2000 bales for our first year between custom and baling our own to sell and for ourselves. The wet spring got us off to a late start, but led to better than average tonnages(but quality was so/so). We keep close to home, our fartherest out customer was about 5 miles. Our plan is to try and do a bit more this year, last years customers have recommitted for this year and already have orders for hay that will pretty much take care of all that I have to sell.
It is a real trick trying to set up to stay busy, but not get into a bind on being over booked. On big thing that made my customers happy was the good looking bales that where up to size. Most of my customers did not have anyone to do custom for them and the other operator working in this area was making 5x5's out of a 5x6 baler and charging 5x6 rates. It seems to me if you can get started, do a good consistent job, and do it in a timely manner, you can most likely get more customers.


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## Dano1124

Thanks guys for the encouragement&#8230;my buddy cracks on me now and then, calls it a fancy pants operation. To me&#8230;I would rather spend a few more bucks getting better equipment if I can than trying to get it fixed during season. We threw out the timing on the square baler late in 2007. It broke all the pins and ripped a hole in the arm. I took it to a dealership to get the repairs done. They told me when I picked it up that I had a new baler. I actually paid the same for the repairs as I did the baler when I bought it. We don't do a whole lot of squares but it works great for what we do.

Sound like from what I'm hearing I can do some more acres&#8230;.I hope to find some. We have 4-5 little places 10-20 acres to do and we will more than likely do them in squares.

This year is the test&#8230;good thing this is not my only income all the best to everyone who posted&#8230;get it in and get it in dry&#8230;.


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## swmnhay

We run a different tractor on each piece of equipment.Kinda leapfrog equipment field to field.I can be cutting in one field,raking in one and baling in another.And picking up bales in another all at the same time.If there is enough help around.LOL.And if is to wet to bale you can go to next field and cut with out unhooking and re hooking.Have 4 older 80-125 hp tractors @ $7-15K for the lighter work.Have a 160 hp on rd baler that doesn't get unhooked all summer.


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## Dano1124

Right now I'll have to work with my 95HP it's the only one we have that is able to handle the disk mower and the baler. I hope to set it up where my buddy can come out on the weekend with his tractor and rake in front of me. This should help some...when he is done raking he can put the bales on the trailer...

this is rally the first year...so I'l just getting a feel for what I can do and how many customers I can expect. If I get more work than I expect...I may make the investment into another larger tractor to do like you have done.

Thanks...


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## swmnhay

In the 70s when I started out doing custom work 30 some yrs ago we had a MF655 self propelled swather (same as a NH) and a JD 510 rd baler.Had a trailer for swather for behind pickup and go from field to field.Nice to have pickup with you in field incase you had to get parts.Have tools.parts,fuel along,etc.(before cellphones)Bale hay in AM until done or to dry and cut in PM.Customer picked up the bales.Basically a one man operation.Fuel was .50,twine was 18.00 for 20,000x110.Swathing $6 ac baling $6 bale.

In the 80s traded for NH 116 swing tongue and Vermeer 605 Super J.Used same tractor on both pieces.Bale hay in mornings,unhook and cut in afternoons.$7 cutting & baling.Bought a V rake,speeded up drying and baling.Was alot of small jobs 10-15 acres.Was doing about 250 ac alf 3 cuttings.50ac ours, 200 custom plus alot of slews,setaside acres and cornstalks.

In the 90s we increased our own acres to 400ac of alf & alf/orchard.$10 for cutting & baling.Went to a discbine.Lost most of the custom work.Most of them retired or got out of livestock.A few bought thier own.

This yr we will have 450 ac of alf & alf/orch.Not much custom work except some cornstalks.Will be running a 2009 Vermeer 605 super M baler,2009 Vermeer 1030 discpro,Vermeer WRX 12 wheel V rake,Recon 300 hay conditioner,Highline 1400 bale retriever.Last yr I charged $13 for baling stalks with use of the rake.And $13 for cutting.


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## Dano1124

Looks like you have all new equipement...I have not even thought about corn stalks. Is it harder on equipment than hay?

On a side note...is it better to cut a little taller on the first cut? I hear folks saying both ways...what is your experience?

As a novis...I would think a little taller on the first cut so it has a little shade to hold mositure a little longer would help with the second growing season.


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## chh

If your going to try and do very much or if you plan to keep the equipment very long, new or newer is sure a lot better IMO. Breakdowns are part of the game, but it sure helps if your not trying to fix and learn how to use it at the same time.
Good Luck


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## swmnhay

Dano1124 said:


> Looks like you have all new equipement...I have not even thought about corn stalks. Is it harder on equipment than hay?
> 
> On a side note...is it better to cut a little taller on the first cut? I hear folks saying both ways...what is your experience?
> 
> As a novis...I would think a little taller on the first cut so it has a little shade to hold mositure a little longer would help with the second growing season.


Traded my baler & cutter couple wks ago.Went from M to a Super M baler,bigger bearings&rollers.And traded my 1030 discpro/tine conditioner to one with steel roller conditioner.They were only a yr old but with rebates,2 piece disc,going to the new Super M baler,and geting a new waranty I talked myself into it.LOL

Yes cornstalks are harder on equip.I charge more for stalks than hay.

I cut pretty close to ground 2" or less.If rocks or gopher mounds 3".Cutting close does slow down drying.If the hay is lodged we can cut at 1" to get it all.


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## kshayharvester

Dano it looks like you came to the right place for answers!! You have gotten alot of good advise from different aspects of the country and all is very good advise, but the thing I found out first is every situation is different as far as weather patterns, heat, moisture, humidity,etc. You will just have to try different things and see what works best for you and your circumstances. You have nice equip. and enough ambition to do a good job then you will do just fine. Break downs will happen eventually and you will figure out how to fix or patch it to get you buy till a rainy day, and all that comes from experience and common sense. I'm sure you will have your doubts this summer when you have 4 guys call you and want you there TOMORROW, and you have to pick and choose, but just remember who pays on time and who you can wait a couple days. I had a couple guys who didn't want to pay till they were ready to bale the next year, and I had to explain that they made me wait so they can wait on me now!! Watch for those guys cause they are out there. Most will pay, it just takes time. Good luck


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## Dano1124

Thanks guys...I'm glad I found this site...you all have been a great help and a comfort. I don't lack work ethic...in fact some say I need to slow down a little. I'm an early riser, comes from my 24 years of being a cook in the military. We have to make the coffee for our selves....LOL.

Last year we did about 150 rounds just on my place and my buddies. My Dad was down from Maine and watched the operation. He made some good points and we will put them to work this year. I ended up buying my tractor after hay season so we were struggling with a 55HP with the big baler and we were using a haybine...not a disk type...a sickle type and it would clog in the thick stuff. With the 9'2" disk mower this year we should be able to zip through it pretty well.

We did do about 300 squares...hope to double that this year.

Again&#8230;thanks for all the support and ideas!!!!


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## Dano1124

Well got the first full year under my belt&#8230;or at least what I can do. Ended up doing @ 500 rounds at 1200lbs per round and about 1000 squares at 50-55lbs per square. Weather and machinery did not help this year&#8230;could have done more.

The disk mower is a godsend&#8230;well worth the money spent&#8230;@$9300 @ 1.4%...for 3 years. Kubota tractor and New Holland mower do not work well with a quick hitch&#8230;

My balers worked okay for the most part&#8230;the square baler was chucking them out without issue&#8230;The round baler was a different story. Time to spend a little money for an upgrade&#8230;851 chain baler almost as old as I am needs a rest&#8230;it will be used as a backup in case.

Ended up getting more work than I could get done&#8230;I realized what my limitations were and let them know up front if I could do it or not.

Did find out some places are better than others to do&#8230;lessons learned.
The tough part now is selling&#8230;everyone has hay this year&#8230;good thing I don't depend on this for a living, just a tax write off.

Did most of the rounds myself &#8230;got a helping hand from some buddies at times&#8230;
Don't remember who said it&#8230;I was under sized on equipment&#8230;they were right&#8230;need a second tractor that can handle the mower so I don't have to take it off and put it on&#8230;


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## chief-fan

Sounds like your on the right rack and heading in the right direction. I am N-NW of you about 2.5 hr North of KC in SW Iowa. I do very little custom baling but do sell a fair amount of hay to horse people within about a 50 miles radius. Neighbor has all the hay ground and and I do all the work and putting it in and selling. Only got about 1200 small squares this year due to the rain. Lost about 650 bales that I couldn't get picked up before the rain came. Only suggestion you might consider is using a preservative. I definitely will be using one next year. I will use the granule with about a 3 lb per ton rate. Runs about $.10 per bale. For your large round it would run close to $2.80 per bale. The up side is you can start about 4 hours earlier in the day and run a few hours later at night baling. Basically 2 days in one, plus can usually start a day earlier. I would not recommend the Harvest Tech set up. Heard a lot of complaints about it and the initial cost is way up there. If I had the set up this year would not have lost the 650 bales. Good luck and stay dry. More rain heading g this way this week BLAH ! ! ! !


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## Chessiedog

Hi Dano1124 ,
Just saw this thread today but reading back through it I thought you might have a hard time keeping up .That's a lot of ground for one guy to cover of course depending on how big the fields are makes a big differnce. I have about hundred acres of my own plus custom keeps you hoping when you have to travel around ,and I get a little help from a retied friend. Of course a lot of the hay spots around here are not to big 5 to 15 acres so your always moving stuff. Trying to do it all with one tractor would be very hard even if you are hauling it around. If you are going to look for anther round baler I would look for a net wrap baler unless your customers just want string,because you can net wrap a bale a whole lot faster then putting string on one in my estimate it takes about twice as long to put string on than it does to net wrap one . 
Then of course you have fields that are rougher then a corncob where you can't make anytime what so ever. Then you got the guys that mow and rake their own call you to bale it you get everyone fit in over the next couple of days then it comes a shower now it's all going to go the same day with rain coming the next day ,just no way you are going to make it to everyone and of course all your buddies that bale are trying to get all of theirs put up so they can't help . IT JUST HARDLY EVER GOES AS PLANNED .LOL But for some odd reason I really like doing it and I do count on it for my income or at least a good portion of it .


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## Dano1124

I have been looking around...not sure if I'm ready to start treating hay yet...

The next step for me is a newer baler...I like the idea of the wrap but the cost is crazy. They do travel better and look nicer in the fields.

My folks live in Maine said they had a hard time this year with the weather and are seeing $6-$6.50 for a square. Might send a couple of box trailers to him to see what he can sell for...at $.40 per mile loaded...It may be worth while...prices around KC are are not all that great.


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## Dano1124

Chessiedog,

Yeah it was some long days...but if you like what your doing it's all good.

The places I did were:
1 @ 100 ac
1 @ 70 ac mine
1 @ 40 ac
1 @ 30 ac
1 @ 10 ac
Second cut on 70 AC mine
1 split of 50 ac
Did one of my buddies @ 50 ac

before I got back they had done 70 ac in squares...I let them use my stuff...good to get it tuned up for me...


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## Chessiedog

Dano
sounds like you had some nice fields to work in .Like i said most hay fields around here 20 acres max every one has row crops in the bigger fields. 
Putting net wrap on bales is not only faster but the bales will last much longer setting out side with out losing much hay .Though the wrap is expensive on a 64 " x 7000' roll i get about 185 bales of 5' x 5' rolls that's putting on 2 full wraps they will average 1000 pounds .So at about $200 for a roll of net cost about a $1.00 to 1.25 or so per bale or right in there some where. Just something to think about .


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## Dano1124

I was wondering about how many bales you get per roll...thanks for the intell...to me it will be well worth the money...they just look better and like you said they hold up better outside.


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## jdavis7399

I have a 9540 and will be purchasing a baler in the spring. How does the 9540 handle the 6x5 baler? Do you have enough power? Does the 8000 pound baler push the 7000 pound tractor around too much?


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## Dano1124

I did not have any problems, the 851 was kicking out 11-1200 Lbs rounds. The only thing keep an eye on is the screens...keep them clean as much as possible to avoid over heating. I was working some hills, nothing too steep...

I did have it shop serviced after 200 hrs...Oil, Grease, filters...

Keep an eye on your inside filters also if the AC does not get cool...they are behind the seat...just filter paper...don't take much to clog them.

Other than that it was great...

Oh yeah...I tried a quick attach for the disk mower...did not work well at all...went back to direct attach to the tractor...I thought it would save time but it did not.


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## Small Timer

How did the Bale Buzzer work for you? I have been looking into something similar and am trying to find as many informed opinions as I can. Thanks.


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## Dano1124

Thought I replied to this ...its great...I have a lot of folks who want to use it...

It is long and take some room to turn it...I use my F350 flatbed to make short corners...workd good.


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