# Cattle Dogs



## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Does anyone else use dogs to help with cattle?

Last year I decided to get an Australian Shepherd pup. Then came across a young Aussie that had been on a cattle farm.

The older dog is 2 years old this month and is proving to be a great asset and friend. She had some issues when I got her. Now she can almost read my mind on what we are trying to do. The younger dog is coming along well.

I use them to move cattle, pen and load cattle for myself and friends. They are a blessing and sure save a lot of steps.

I doubt I will ever be with out a cattle dog again.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I have a male Border Collie. I made a huge mistake when he was a pup. I thought he pretended he was tied up to my apple tree for way too long. Turns out while I was away he eventually took up chasing cars and herding cows. I figured this out too late.

I also let him help me feed cattle the first winter I had them. He was still a pup but made sure they gave me plenty of room. Problem is he doesn't take direction well and if allowed will chase cars or cows. If he slowed down and listened he would be great with the cattle. He knows he shouldn't do either but does both anyway. Oops.


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

My uncle used to work cattle a lot, & he had some of the best dogs around. He used a yellow cur mix. ! dog was worth 2 or 3 good hands on horses. They would bring a cow -or bull- out of a swamp where you did NOT want to take a horse.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I was given an early Christmas present this week, a training collar for the younger dog. She is fine when close, is oblivious and obsessed when 100 yards away. She is a tail grabber. She grabs a hold and skids while the cow runs.

I have not had to shock her yet, have only used the tone/vibration setting. She knows she is doing wrong.

My Brother-In-Law gathered and hauled cattle for years as his main job. He had some yellow curs and a Catahoula. Those dogs would gather cattle from swamps and bottoms. Some of those cows were rank. Or bought they were until the dogs set in.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

deadmoose said:


> I have a male Border Collie. I made a huge mistake when he was a pup. I thought he pretended he was tied up to my apple tree for way too long. Turns out while I was away he eventually took up chasing cars and herding cows. I figured this out too late.
> 
> I also let him help me feed cattle the first winter I had them. He was still a pup but made sure they gave me plenty of room. Problem is he doesn't take direction well and if allowed will chase cars or cows. If he slowed down and listened he would be great with the cattle. He knows he shouldn't do either but does both anyway. Oops.


Shock collar.....works very well at correction. Most folks think you have to electrocute to get their attention. Not the case....you might have to get their attention with a moderately higher setting the first time....maybe twice, but after that all you need is a "tickle" of a charge. They know what it is and know that they need to change what they are doing. Lots of praise when they are working right.

Regards, Mike


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

I don't remember the last time that we moved cattle or gathered without a dog. I don't think that we ever have.

Just like horses, the biggest problem that stands in the way of them learning to do it right is people. Not intentionally of course. One more way that dogs are like horses is that the more they are used the better they get. My brother runs 8 or 10 dogs currently, not all at once, for the outfit he rides for. He takes 2 or 3 a day and gives them rest days in the middle. He usually runs a good dog or 2 and takes a younger dog along. With enough practice they will load cattle in a trailer out in the middle of nowhere. They also tag along when he rides big circles, and a tired dog listens pretty well.

Vol is right about the e-collars, it doesn't take much to correct the behavior issues, on a trained dog. The problem that I have run into is people thinking that they can teach a dog with a collar rather than simply correcting one. The dog has to know what is wanted, and not wanted before a collar will do any good. It is a tool that is hard to replace, but at the same time more working dogs have been ruined by well meaning folks with a control in their hand than any other way.


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

When training. Consistency, very important, no matter how small a matter you think it is I would hate to be without one.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

A couple more thoughts came to mind.

Dogs have really good hearing, if you don't believe that you have never seen mine when A) I crack the candy dish B) My wife whispers the word treat.

That applies to working dogs as well. They hear you but either they choose to ignore you or they do not know what you are asking. I say all of that to say this. There is little worse in a pen of cattle than having some Idiot screaming at his dogs. It is counterproductive at best. The most quiet dogs on cattle usually are owned by the most quiet handler. The litmus test has always been calving season. If you can't have them around during the calving season and have them work very slowly and quietly, they aren't broke yet.

Some folks would argue that a good working dog is a tool and not a pet. This, in my opinion, is partly true. I have seen it both ways. That being said, how far are you willing to go in training and how strict do you want to be? The very dogs that will tear through the house to the treat jar and the candy dish include a blue heeler, an aussie/Catahoula, and kelpie. They will never be the caliber of the dogs that my brother runs, but they work for us, and I am not making a living with them either.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

I use the shock collar to reinforce a command, not to teach one. I want to distract the dog from undesired behavior. I began to use Richard Wohlers training methods back when we hunted fowl and had retrievers. The ideas transfer to most working dog training.

The dog I got last year from a cattle farm was trained and corrected with bird shot. That created major trust issues. She loves working cattle. She was terrified of them when I first got her as she related cattle to being shot. It has taken a lot of patience and praise to change her mindset and gain her trust. She wants to please. She has found being by my side in the pen and being an extension of myself is fun. She loves praise and is a happy dog now.

Monday we used my place to stage a friends calves and cull cows going to the sale. We were separating at his place and one crazy momma put me out of the pen. The dogs nailed her before she got to me. Caused an intense moment.

When that cut was ready to load, the dogs alone put them on the trailer.


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

There is nothing like watching the results of all the training that has gone into a good dog, or horse.

I can't even imagine someone using birdshot on a dog. I am glad you ended up with that one and it sounds like she is making a good one.

I was going to bring up the similarities of bird dogs and cow dogs as far as the training went, but decided against it. We could really get a discussion going and bring up hounds too. lol


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I really, really like dogs.....I have made a enemie or two over dog mis-treatment that I have witnessed. A person who will mis-treat a dog will mis-treat a child.

Regards, Mike


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

Depends how you define mis-treatment


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## IH 1586 (Oct 16, 2014)

Had a blue heeler when I had animals. Never was trained but always with me. He picked up a lot on his own. When I am ready for a dog I'll get another.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

bluefarmer said:


> Depends how you define mis-treatment


Oh I think most mature individuals know the difference between correction and mis-treatment.

Regards, Mike


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## MDill (Feb 8, 2015)

My parents had an Australian cattle dog dropped off at their house when I was two years old, my mom didn't like him right off the bat. Intense look, rugged dog, she thought he looked wild. By the end of the day you thought he'd been born there. Needless to say it didn't take long for him to fit in. 
He was 2 when he got dropped off and had only seen, not worked, sheep. But it's all instinct, we just randomly used him to load a cow on a trailer one day to see what he could do. I'd never be without a cattle dog now, I also wouldn't own any other kind of dog. 
They ARE NOT for everyone, and not every dog is equal. My female, Athena, I have now took a much longer time to train than Zeus, our original male. But she is much more intense while moving cattle. I never officially trained them, more like someone you learn to work around, they have instincts that you just can't change, sometimes for the better. 
She is going on 11 and is basically retired now, I've started looking for other dogs but it's tough. Both of my cattle dogs have been terrible with other dogs, and are extremely leary of strangers. But have been good with kids and people they know. They are a one dog, one person type of animal. Athena has been knocked out cold, cut, scraped and even lost a toe getting stepped on by a steer. But came back to finish the job on 3 legs. 
I wouldn't work cattle without a dog, but like you wouldn't move cattle with a stranger you need to know the dog.

Also just as a point of interest, when I was in college one of my professors was a dairy repro specialist who worked at one of the AI facilities. He had slides (he was an old school guy) of one of the bull farms where the techs weren't allowed into a bull pen unless a cattle dog went in first, the dog was there in case the bull got out of the headlocks during vaccinations or bloodwork. When the tech was done he left and closed the gate then the dog would come out. It tells you something about heelers. 45lb dog vs 2200lb bull.


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## Bags (Nov 17, 2013)

I've worked aussie's for years. At the moment, I have a 9 year old female and a 7 year old male.

Its pretty ruff to work stock in this country without a dog. The steep ravines, juniper thickets, boulders, cactus patches and oak brush give the snot slingers quite an advantage over your rope horse a lot of times, but they just cant stand the pressure a good dog puts on them. Get;in in a tight spot with a bull that's been fight'in the deer flies all day, or a horned mama cow up in the boulders that thinks junior might be in trouble, isn't my idea of a good time--- but it can be quite the adventure.

Both my aussies earn their keep--- but in return--- there fed well, they don't ride in the back of the truck cause there up front with me, they live inside the house and I even have a soft sofa that's just for them. Some folks around say I treat them better than my kids.lol.

The stories I could tell about wild cows, and good dogs-------> Anyway------> Heres a couple pictures of the kids.

The first one is the 7 year slate merle. His motto is--- "Beef, its whats for dinner" and the stock knows hes the boss.

The second is the 9 year old red female (7 year olds mother). I mostly just work her in the pens anymore. Couple years ago she was moving a bunch of steers out of a cactus patch and caught a hoof to the side of the head. Knocked her flat cold. A few months later she went blind on that side, so I figure its time for her to ease up some. (shes being a bum on her sofa)


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## Colby (Mar 5, 2012)

We use cur dogs to pen all of our cows. A lot more effective then a bag of range cubes....


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

A buddy has border collies, seems only about half at best of his can wok cattle, the rest he sells as pets.

We've had Australian Shepherds forever it seems, since going to rotational grazing don't really have a lot of use for em, more pets than employees anymore.


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## PackMan2170 (Oct 6, 2014)

Just remember when you get a cowdog (or a birddog) to name it Goddamndog or Sonofabitch, that way it knows who you're talking to


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

I like Heelers but they like all dogs have their quirks like not liking strangers, are extremely territorial, and need a business like tone of voice when addressing them. Ours are extremely loving but only to family members anyone else is subject to being bitten. Their only problem with working cattle was my not knowing how to properly train them.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Nice dogs. Lookin at that box in the background, somebody's got some tobacca that needs to be topped.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

cornshucker said:


> I like Heelers but they like all dogs have their quirks like not liking strangers, are extremely territorial, and need a business like tone of voice when addressing them. Ours are extremely loving but only to family members anyone else is subject to being bitten. Their only problem with working cattle was my not knowing how to properly train them.


They have the stare down. Don't wanna mess with them.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

deadmoose said:


> They have the stare down. Don't wanna mess with them.


That's what I was thinking. That picture is made for adding your own caption. Something like "this [email protected]& ain't funny, we're house dogs".


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## Lostin55 (Sep 21, 2013)

They haven't missed many meals. Good looking dogs. They look like mine.






View attachment 3692


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

That reminds me of a acquaintance that saw me out in the drive and pulled in driving his flatbed....he got out for a chat and we were standing around his truck....he had a blue heeler standing on the back. About that time I started to lean on the flatbed, I saw a streak flashing and the fella yelled. The dog did stop but barely.....Tim said that the dog feels like he owns that truck bed and doesn't want anyone messing with it.........OK.

Regards, Mike


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Vol said:


> That reminds me of a acquaintance that saw me out in the drive and pulled in driving his flatbed....he got out for a chat and we were standing around his truck....he had a blue heeler standing on the back. About that time I started to lean on the flatbed, I saw a streak flashing and the fella yelled. The dog did stop but barely.....Tim said that the dog feels like he owns that truck bed and doesn't want anyone messing with it.........OK.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Our Heelers are extremely territorial and no where more so than when they are on the back or in the cab of the truck in their mind they own the truck and just let me drive it. Also another thing they do is they pick their master, when we got these I picked the blue one and my wife the red. But the blue one picked my wife and the red one picked me. The Blue Dog has bitten me for picking at my wife cannot hug her without him growling if she's not around he really likes me. They are not your dog as much as you are their human. Another good trait of these dogs is groundhogs and copperhead snakes don't stand a chance with them around. Funny thing about snakes they won't usually kill a black snake unless I put them on it, but will kill every copperhead they come across, only thing that I can figure is they can smell the poison in them. Must come from the Dingo bred in them being so many venomous snakes in Australia.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Puts me in mind of the Duke.....in "Big Jake" his dog was a mixed mutt border collie and heeler mix breed. It was a ill tempered pooch.

I enjoyed the fact of his dog was named "dog" in the movie. 

Regards, Mike


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

They also love kids. We are adopting a 7month old male from the cattle dog assoc. He is ready to follow my son anywhere. He had never met cows before, and isn't quite sure what to think. But he also marched up and touched noses with the bull.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Dill said:


> They also love kids.


From the looks of this picture they better also love snow.... .

Regards, Mike


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Couldn't help myself........my favorite was at the 2:39 mark from one of the all-time great John Wayne movies....."Cowboys".

Regards, Mike


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Vol said:


> Puts me in mind of the Duke.....in "Big Jake" his dog was a mixed mutt border collie and heeler mix breed. It was a ill tempered pooch.
> 
> I enjoyed the fact of his dog was named "dog" in the movie.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Never get tired of seeing the Duke. Nobody wore the mantle of hero better.


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## cornshucker (Aug 22, 2011)

Dill said:


> They also love kids. We are adopting a 7month old male from the cattle dog assoc. He is ready to follow my son anywhere. He had never met cows before, and isn't quite sure what to think. But he also marched up and touched noses with the bull.


If he is like the Heelers I've been around in 6 months nobody will ever mess with the 7 year old kid.


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## Joseph K (Feb 20, 2014)

Anybody ever messed with the catahoula curs or hangin tree dogs ? We have 2 red heelers and a border collie that all work very well, but I would kind of like to add one "hammer dog" if you will. Want something a little rougher around the edges for dragging rangy cows out of the gamble oaks and rough rocky mountain country where we summer graze.


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## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

Don't know if this site will open properly???






Dr. Long is Resident Director of Research at Texas A&M AgriLife Research at the Research and Extension Center at Overton in northeast Texas, near Tyler. He is an advocate of using dogs to work cattle.

Vincent


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks Dr. Haby. The video worked and it was nice to see the work while a commentary explained.


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

Back in the 60's when my dad worked as cow foreman for Warren Livestock out of Cheyenne Wyoming; he had a Australian Shepherd that he could send out of his sight and the dog would bring any cows to him. One time most of the cowboys tried to strike for higher wages when they had some cows to move from the north side of Cheyenne to the south side; or course they all got fired. He moved those cows with himself and one other old cowboy that had be there forever, and his dog. The sad thing is that dad ran that dog over when pulling up the gas pump. I love watch a good dog work cattle.


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