# Another war. Empire stretched too far?



## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Is this another warning sign the US is one step closer to collapse? 
If we attack Syria and there's a response to Israel, do we have enough Chinese money to fund another war? We resemble the Roman Empire more and more.
As much as I think it's an atrocity to use WMDs, after looking at the pros/cons, what's your conclusion?


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

When the Romans conquered a country the took the spoils of war and owned the country.We are just trying to Police the world and getting all the expence that goes with it.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm reminded of a poem I read in a history book that ended with the line "sticking our probiscus in everbody's business but our own".

I think it was written around 1900 and refered to the U. S. and its imperial behaviour.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Do you remember when Obama ridiculed the previous adiministration for the war on Iraq....Saddam Husseins atrocities were much longer standing than Syria's. Is this the final chapter in this administrations attempt to bankrupt this country.....first the total failure of the "bailout" and recovery plan and now the overwhelming costs of another war.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

*Yes I do and how he was going to get us out of the war in 6 months??How many yrs ago was that?*


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

Working in Kurdistan (Iraq) gives me a front row seat on this one. It is a civil war and for the most part, war is not civil...no matter how many silly "conventions" we sign. My personal feeling is at the end, Syria will break into three regions and Iraq into two. Not much anyone can do, or should do to stop it. The current administration stupidly drew a "red line" and the Syrian government crossed it. Now the administration has to do something so they can show the world we are not to be trifled with. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the congress says "no" like they did in the UK. At any rate, they might take out some largely empty "command & control centers" and the Navy will get to shoot some Tomahawks, but at the end the civil war will go on.

Most of the borders out there were created by either colonial powers or the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War. They separate the natural boarders which were largely based on ethnic or religious regions and artificially create political boarders (the divide and conquer strategy goes back before the Romans). The resulting internal conflict typically takes a dictator to hold it all together. Because the dictators maintain a certain amount of stability, they have been supported by the Western powers. The reality however is that it's a powder keg just waiting to go off, but it is interesting to watch. Sadly, a lot of innocent people die in the crossfire only because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.....


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm fairly convinced most countries politicians are banking on not getting backing from rest of gov to do anything. They all know it would be a disaster but don't want to be seen as doing nothing.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> The current administration stupidly drew a "red line" and the Syrian government crossed it. Now the administration has to do something so they can show the world we are not to be trifled with.


Hear the latest LABS (lies and bullshit) from the administration? Now the fault lies with the rest of the world for the convention banning chemical weapons in 1925 and congress shares some of the blame for ratifying it. Basically the liar in chief is trying to blame everybody else for "the red line"


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> Working in Kurdistan (Iraq) gives me a front row seat on this one. It is a civil war and for the most part, war is not civil...no matter how many silly "conventions" we sign. My personal feeling is at the end, Syria will break into three regions and Iraq into two. Not much anyone can do, or should do to stop it. The current administration stupidly drew a "red line" and the Syrian government crossed it. Now the administration has to do something so they can show the world we are not to be trifled with. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the congress says "no" like they did in the UK. At any rate, they might take out some largely empty "command & control centers" and the Navy will get to shoot some Tomahawks, but at the end the civil war will go on.
> 
> Most of the borders out there were created by either colonial powers or the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War. They separate the natural boarders which were largely based on ethnic or religious regions and artificially create political boarders (the divide and conquer strategy goes back before the Romans). The resulting internal conflict typically takes a dictator to hold it all together. Because the dictators maintain a certain amount of stability, they have been supported by the Western powers. The reality however is that it's a powder keg just waiting to go off, but it is interesting to watch. Sadly, a lot of innocent people die in the crossfire only because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.....


Well said!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Damn it I ran out of "likes".....can we get bonus "likes"....

I agree with everyone of you, this can't be compared to the Iraq conflict but it is certainly an extension of the underlying problems in that region....Clinton came to my mind (I had to bang my head against a wall afterwards) the other day and his love of sending in a token cruise missile, after which the Cole gets a hole blown in it....and we send in another token.....still going, the middle eastern debacle just keeps going

They need dictators.....and sadly....a civil war


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

From a political stand point His Eminence is in a win-win situation.

If Congress allows him start a war, he can blame it on them.

If they do not allow him to start a war, he can blame it on them.

I would rather the U.S. declare war on our southern border.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> Damn it I ran out of "likes".....can we get bonus "likes"....
> I agree with everyone of you, this can't be compared to the Iraq conflict but it is certainly an extension of the underlying problems in that region....Clinton came to my mind (I had to bang my head against a wall afterwards) the other day and his love of sending in a token cruise missile, after which the Cole gets a hole blown in it....and we send in another token.....still going, the middle eastern debacle just keeps going
> They need dictators.....and sadly....a civil war


I had a few likes left.... I used em up for you!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Tim/South said:


> From a political stand point His Eminence is in a win-win situation.
> If Congress allows him start a war, he can blame it on them.
> If they do not allow him to start a war, he can blame it on them.
> 
> I would rather the U.S. declare war on our southern border.


Speaking of the southern border....did you see how many Middle easterners are crossing the border? Wonder what they're coming here for??

Here's my predictions: the bombing at the Boston Marathon is a precursor to a MUCH larger attack which will be conducted within the US. They will bring enough of these zombies here to try to overwhelm a large area or population center with a terrorist act. My biggest fear is another Beslin school-type takeover. 
The scary thingis the govt knows its happening. They know many of them are crossing the border and assembling and quietly planning. They won't fix the border. It's like they want us to be destroyed from within. 
In a time of high unemployment and expensive fuel and our decline as an industrial power, WHY are we allowing these few environmentalists nut jobs to legislate through lies and disinformation to block tapping our own vast energy resources and telling the Middle East to stick a bayonet the up their ass once and for all. We have ZERO use for these people and their beliefs


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## spacefarmer (Sep 6, 2013)

First time I posted here and I feel right at home. I was dreaming of owning some land and working it so I am here to find out how you do it. Last night I was looking at all the +100 acre ranches/farms you could buy online. Crazy me was up past 4am looking at all the land I could possibly buy and so I am here to find out how the real men and women make a living off the land. Looking at the posts here and elsewhere, I wish we could go back to the days where most the people did work off the land. You have the work ethic, common sense and even wisdom beyond just farming. You get it that we are fast losing our strength as a nation and could be on our way to third world status with all our crazy spending. Most people seem to not get it. Why is this so?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

spacefarmer said:


> First time I posted here and I feel right at home. I was dreaming of owning some land and working it so I am here to find out how you do it. Last night I was looking at all the +100 acre ranches/farms you could buy online. Crazy me was up past 4am looking at all the land I could possibly buy and so I am here to find out how the real men and woman make a living off the land. Looking at the posts here and elsewhere, I wish we could go back to the days where most the people did work off the land. You have the work ethic, common sense and even wisdom beyond just farming. You get it that we are fast losing our strength as a nation and could be on our way to third world status with all our crazy spending. Most people seem to not get it. Why is this so?


Welcome to haytalk spacefarmer.....because most people are now on the public dole....seems irreversible without divine intervention....too stupid, they've methodically dumbed us down.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

spacefarmer said:


> First time I posted here and I feel right at home. I was dreaming of owning some land and working it so I am here to find out how you do it. Last night I was looking at all the +100 acre ranches/farms you could buy online. Crazy me was up past 4am looking at all the land I could possibly buy and so I am here to find out how the real men and woman make a living off the land. Looking at the posts here and elsewhere, I wish we could go back to the days where most the people did work off the land. You have the work ethic, common sense and even wisdom beyond just farming. You get it that we are fast losing our strength as a nation and could be on our way to third world status with all our crazy spending. Most people seem to not get it. Why is this so?


Why work when you can stay home, fornicate with several partners, get $ rewards for cranking out more babies, public housing, a free cell phone, food stamps, access card, school lunches for the kids......
It's like I said, in my state of PA, a woman with 4 kids is better off on the dole than with a 60k job AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK!!!!!!

Welcome to Hay Talk Spacefarmer!


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## RockyHill (Apr 24, 2013)

Welcome, spacefarmer. People on here work and work hard -- farming takes physical, mental, and emotional energy . . . and we choose to so. I'm fairly sure people just waiting for their monthly "taxpayer provided allowance" don't have a clue. True farm income would be easier to manage the household budget and cover farming expenses without all the waste going toward the government pocket. Don't get me wrong, taxes are necessary. There are services that must be financed that way BUT our national fiscal situation is in total disrepair. Now Obamacare is attempting to take the last coins in our pockets. A war is on the horizon and probably farmers will be the ones called to service, wouldn't want to disturb the lazy-ies.

An answer to your question 'why is this so?" We've neglected our responsibilities. Christian people and their churches have turned over care of truly needful people to the government. Abortion - the murder of the unborn - is promoted/accepted/financed. Marriage does not need to be redefined -- that relationship in question is already named abominable sin. Anything is acceptable unless it mentions God or the Bible. This is just the short list.

Our circumstances are bleak but there is HOPE. God is not limited in His power and will help when His people are looking to Him and His ways. It is not about religion, there are enough evils within things under a religious name, it is about God.

Shelia

(looking back over the post I think the theme music would have started with Old McDonald Had a Farm, then to the Star Spangled Banner, concluding with Amazing Grace)


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## spacefarmer (Sep 6, 2013)

Thanks Dawg and JD. Yes, we are dumbed down with the subtle message from Hollywood, the mainline media and our schools and universities. Yes, they are pushing free lunches on all the kids these days and the parents are glad to oblige. More and more are fornicating around having kids out of marriage and leaving our society in a mess. Homosexuality is pushed as normal and healthy on our kids and in society. But the irrational thinking leads to irrational behavior, which we see all around us.


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## spacefarmer (Sep 6, 2013)

RockyHill,

Thanks too. I had a "quiet time" reading Scripture with my kids and missed your post. Ironically, I work for the government and see irrational thinking all around, though there are some who take a stand like myself.

But the economic situation could get bad and I do fear the "lazy-ies" for when Uncle Sam runs out of money they will be coming with force to take our resources. I am in the suburbs so I probably have the most to fear, should the rest the world decide to dump our dollar.

Of course, God is in control so I don't worry about it but I should probably be more prepared. I sure pray that God does allow the tables be turned where the righteous little ones rise up and take the lead with holiness. But we don't deserve it, for in many ways the Christians have not been the salt and light.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

We lack leadership in this country.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

JD3430 said:


> We lack leadership in this country.


Amen, brother!

And, we are already a third world country.

*And, I don't like it!*

Communism, socialism, liberalism, or whatever 25 cent name you want to put on it, just doesn't work!

Ralph


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Some won't agree, but... WHERE IS THE NEXT RONALD REAGAN?
Like him or hate him, he was a born leader.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Some won't agree, but... WHERE IS THE NEXT RONALD REAGAN?
> Like him or hate him, he was a born leader.


I can tell you they're not in the Republican Party.......the establishment.....that's what we have....the tea party needs to play a blind eye towards the Republican Party, they allowed themselves to be duped by those morons


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Speaking of the southern border....did you see how many Middle easterners are crossing the border? Wonder what they're coming here for??
> 
> Here's my predictions: the bombing at the Boston Marathon is a precursor to a MUCH larger attack which will be conducted within the US. They will bring enough of these zombies here to try to overwhelm a large area or population center with a terrorist act. My biggest fear is another Beslin school-type takeover.
> The scary thingis the govt knows its happening. They know many of them are crossing the border and assembling and quietly planning. They won't fix the border. It's like they want us to be destroyed from within.


Can't close the border, then all those undocumented democrats can't get in.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> I can tell you they're not in the Republican Party.......the establishment.....that's what we have....the tea party needs to play a blind eye towards the Republican Party, they allowed themselves to be duped by those morons


Yup, used to give money to the republican party, used to that is. Not anymore, not since Rubio rolled over and played dead with the gang of 8.

They actually called the other day looking for a handout, I said no and are you taking comments as to why? I told em as long as my money could go to the likes of Rubio, McCain and Boehner they will never get another cent from me and instead I will donate to libertarians, independents and Rand Paul.

Rand Paul is going to filibuster the whole Syria mess if congress tries to authorize it.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> We lack leadership in this country.


Yes and no...In the past, to get elected, you had to be at the outer fringes to get nominated by one of the two parties and then run to the middle to get enough votes from crossovers to get elected. Once elected, if you led from the middle you made a majority of the population happy, upset the fringes and were considered a "great leader". Both parties have managed to polarize their bases in efforts to pass national agendas to make the fringes happy and we are much worse off because of it. Neither side works for most of us anymore, they only work for their base of voters.

The polarization has trickled down to the local level. In the past (at least here in Texas) we tried to vote for the most qualified person for the job, the party didn't really matter. The governor was the exception. That position had little power so we usually elected a drunk or an idiot for our amusement. Sadly, the old Lt. Governor, who really ran things and always got reelected, died. At the same time, the two parties started trying to push the national agendas and the polarization only has gotten worse. Fewer politicians really care what is good for the locals or the State and only see their future pushing the national agendas.

State politics used to focus on what was best for the people living in that state. That population identified themselves with the State, had a somewhat common heritage, pride, etc. Voting was focused on what was best for the common good. We had very strong State's Rights. National politics were based on compromise and it took a fair amount of time to pass national legislation....change came slowly, it wasn't very painful, but we were still better at adapting to changing conditions than most other countries in the world. The polarization destroyed all that, now we lurch from side to side, and national politics are totally focused on one side winning and the other side losing. Today's "leadership" is focused on winning for a few, at the expense of the many. We still have "leaders" they just don't care about the majority of the population any more. Rant over........


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> Why work when you can stay home, fornicate with several partners, get $ rewards for cranking out more babies, public housing, a free cell phone, food stamps, access card, school lunches for the kids......
> It's like I said, in my state of PA, a woman with 4 kids is better off on the dole than with a 60k job AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK!!!!!!
> 
> Welcome to Hay Talk Spacefarmer!


I stopped at adult beverage shop to get a case of beer and a car was pulling out.4 generations of welfare in same car.They have been living in our small town for 20 some yrs.None have ever had a job.They bought a older house and got it all fixed up for free.They tried buying another house that had been vacant for yrs to get it fixed up for free also but someone getting wind of it got it condemned before they got it bought.

So we have the mother.Her son,His daughter with a baby all sucking off welfare.


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

swmnhay said:


> I stopped at adult beverage shop to get a case of beer and a car was pulling out.4 generations of welfare in same car.They have been living in our small town for 20 some yrs.None have ever had a job.They bought a older house and got it all fixed up for free.They tried buying another house that had been vacant for yrs to get it fixed up for free also but someone getting wind of it got it condemned before they got it bought.So we have the mother.Her son,His daughter with a baby all sucking off welfare.


WELFARE--Keeping lazy people unemployed since 1936!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Why work when you can stay home, fornicate with several partners, get $ rewards for cranking out more babies, public housing, a free cell phone, food stamps, access card, school lunches for the kids......
> It's like I said, in my state of PA, a woman with 4 kids is better off on the dole than with a 60k job AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK!!!!!!


Heard the same thing, but I believe it was Hawaii where you get the 60K. To be fair the cost of living is outrageous in Hawaii since damn near everything has to be shipped in. Not saying the 60K thing is justified or anything.


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## jrcrumiI (Jun 10, 2013)

Just seen the only country wiling to go to Syria with us is France, heard they were already working on their term of surrender


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

jrcrumiI said:


> Just seen the only country wiling to go to Syria with us is France, heard they were already working on their term of surrender


 France ......wow, does it get any worse than France?


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Well. Look who has been elected here.


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## barnrope (Mar 22, 2010)

Seems pretty hypocritical that the government is condemning a few hundred innocent people slaughtered when we are aborting millions right here at home.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

barnrope said:


> Seems pretty hypocritical that the government is condemning a few hundred innocent people slaughtered when we are aborting millions right here at home.


Exactly!!! What's the latest statistic, something like 1.7million babies murdered by our own government and we're going to war over 400 Syrian children who MIGHT have been gassed by Assad???
What of this starts World War III?

Drill here, drill now, get out the Middle East. Let em work it out themselves. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what else do we get from the M.E. of significance other than oil and opium? 
Wouldn't it be worth it to rid ourselves of the huge expense and loss of life to drill here for oil and NG instead of continuing to stick our nose in conflicts where we don't even know who's right and who's wrong?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

jrcrumiI said:


> Just seen the only country wiling to go to Syria with us is France, heard they were already working on their term of surrender


HAHA, love it. I still see this one floating around once in awhile: "For sale, WWII French army rifle. Never fired, dropped once."


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## spacefarmer (Sep 6, 2013)

You all just kill me with laughter! France our fearless partner along with our fearless (and mindless) President - Obama. Oh this is just too much,if it wasn't true!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I worry about my 13 yr old son. In 4 more years, he could have to be involved in war that president chamberlain....I mean president Obama starts.....

One thing to remember about the French. They were extremely helpful at helping us win the American Revolutionary War. Lt General Marquis de Lafayette was a Bonafide hero in my area. He fought directly under the tutelage of Gen. George Washington. He was instrumental in the Battle of the Brandywine, where I live. There are several monuments constructed to honor his bravery. He was made an honorary citizen of the US in 2002. He died in the 1850's as a huge supporter of the US constitution. The year before he died, he came back to the US and visited all 24 US states. He is honored in both US and France, and though he is buried in France, he is buried under soil brought from Bunker Hill. Many streets in my area are named "Lafayette St, Lafayette Hills", etc. 
in fact, I did the historical renovation to the home where a monument dedicated to him still exists, today. I'm very proud of it. 
I'm totally on board with the "French surrender" jokes, but Lafayette was quite an exception. A leader, a warrior, a lover and believer in the US constitution.


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## discbinedr (Mar 4, 2013)

Just came back from hearing Dr Ben Carson speak in Hershey. Talk about speaking truth to power with humility! Regarding Syria he said that if he was a rebel fighter he would use gas and then blame it on Assad to get the US involved . Doubtful, but a good point.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

discbinedr said:


> Just came back from hearing Dr Ben Carson speak in Hershey. Talk about speaking truth to power with humility! Regarding Syria he said that if he was a rebel fighter he would use gas and then blame it on Assad to get the US involved . Doubtful, but a good point.


I'm not sure how doubtful that is......sounds like a good plan, human life doesn't mean a whole lot to them in the grand scheme of things...


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## spacefarmer (Sep 6, 2013)

I also worry about my 13 year old boy. He loves everything related to the military. It is not the same as when I was in. They are pushing homosexuality and removing any Chaplain who does not go along with their agenda. We really are in a cultural war today and things are rapidly changing. I don't buy that the problem is the extremists in the parties as if both are equivalent. No it is the rise of the godless. The good old time gospel is vilified and new mindless ideas are put forward as reasonable when they are senseless. The belief that hard work is a duty and responsibility is no longer valued, and many are out only for themselves gladly willing to take a handout. The notion of family is mutated to mean all kinds of things. Many want government to be their daddy and mommy and want healthcare, free lunches, extended unemployment benefits, subsidized loans, free condoms, free abortions, and much government control. Free enterprise is looked at as being evil. They want to control the wages that a company gives to the highest corporate officers and the beginning employee. They want to outlaw large soda drinks and tell everybody what they can eat. They want to take away God's command to subdue the earth and instead want to be the environmental gods to control the earth. They jam their convoluted theories on global warming, evolution, population control, etc. They want to tell us when we have lived long enough and when we should be put to death. They want to teach a perverted morality and put us in jail if we don't follow it using hate crimes. They want to take away our guns so we are no threat to their agenda of control. Government is god and will save us. If this is not scary I don't know what is!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

discbinedr said:


> Just came back from hearing Dr Ben Carson speak in Hershey. Talk about speaking truth to power with humility! Regarding Syria he said that if he was a rebel fighter he would use gas and then blame it on Assad to get the US involved . Doubtful, but a good point.


Actually that's a scenario that has been discussed frequently in the press. I wouldn't put anything past those snakes. 
Wait until they get here and start killing people in mass. It'll make the Boston Marathon bombing and 9-11 look like normal occurrences.
I saw a program showing Muslim extremists pouring across the southern border. 
Wonder what they're coming here for? To overload the welfare system, assemble and eventually conquer.


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