# Pull Type Bale Wagon



## MorningstarAcres (Jul 13, 2009)

Hey all,

Hubby wants to get a pull-type bale wagon, probably NH, and I'm wondering if it would suit our needs and circumstances.

We currently cut about 50 acres of Orchard/Tim/Alf. mix, decent straightaways, but some corners, fairly flat with slight dips in the land. Our hay barn is a pole barn that's 13feet on the side up to a peak of 16-17feet, dual sliding doors on the front, so access from both sides. Dirt floor, hay is currently stacked on pallets, which means we usually lose the bottom layer, but we're working on fixing that. We have two tractors, and our current method is pulling a wagon behind our small square baler, with me on the wagon stacking, and two or three in the hay barn unloading.

Opinions? I really don't want to be wasting precious time this summer farting around with it if it's not going to prove to be a time saver in the end.


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## Mike120 (May 4, 2009)

I used one for years and it's for sale now, but your barn is not tall enough for it to unload. Mine needs about 15'. I went to a Hoelscher accumulator/grapple and wish I had done it years ago. I can load and unload in a lot less time and pretty much do everything by myself (except I need someone else to pull the wagon). I liked the Kuhn Accumulator as well, but got a better deal on the Hoelscher. I prefer the table type as opposed to the "drag on the ground" type because I'm doing horse hay. I can't feel the accumulator back there, even when it dumps.

There has been a lot of discussion on this board about what to stack on. Personally I use 6'X6' pallets but my floor is crushed concrete. I have no problems with the bottom layers. With a Stacker Wagon, you'll need a decent, dry floor and lots of head room to stand it up.

The key to a stacker wagon is tight, uniform bales. I've found the grapple is a little more forgiving, but the stacker wagon was an excellent teacher. Your husband is lucky, I couldn't get my wife to stack bales if I held a gun to her head.....for that matter, I have a hard time finding ANYONE who wants to stack bales.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

If you go with a stack wagon it needs to auto tie! This will speed things up a good bit.


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## MorningstarAcres (Jul 13, 2009)

Mike120 said:


> I used one for years and it's for sale now, but your barn is not tall enough for it to unload. Mine needs about 15'. I went to a Hoelscher accumulator/grapple and wish I had done it years ago. I can load and unload in a lot less time and pretty much do everything by myself (except I need someone else to pull the wagon). I liked the Kuhn Accumulator as well, but got a better deal on the Hoelscher. I prefer the table type as opposed to the "drag on the ground" type because I'm doing horse hay. I can't feel the accumulator back there, even when it dumps.
> 
> There has been a lot of discussion on this board about what to stack on. Personally I use 6'X6' pallets but my floor is crushed concrete. I have no problems with the bottom layers. With a Stacker Wagon, you'll need a decent, dry floor and lots of head room to stand it up.
> 
> The key to a stacker wagon is tight, uniform bales. I've found the grapple is a little more forgiving, but the stacker wagon was an excellent teacher. Your husband is lucky, I couldn't get my wife to stack bales if I held a gun to her head.....for that matter, I have a hard time finding ANYONE who wants to stack bales.


lol that's funny about hubby being lucky...I'm sure he'd disagree, considering the reason we got into hay in the first place is due to my horse obsession! That's probably why I know I'd better get my butt out there and help...

I thought our barn wouldn't be tall enough. He thinks it would be, but I'm going to show him this thread.

Hubby packs the baler pretty tight. We always have a few wasted bales while we configure it at the beginning of each season, but our MF baler is the bomb! Never a missed bale, and nice and square.

I'm going to google the accumulator you are talking about...


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## MorningstarAcres (Jul 13, 2009)

hay hauler said:


> If you go with a stack wagon it needs to auto tie! This will speed things up a good bit.


What does that mean...auto tie?


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

It uses to pins on the 2nd table to turn the bales side ways and "tie" the stack together (first table holds 2 or 3 bales, 2nd holds 10 or 15, and load rack holds all the bales prior to dumping). Otherwise you must stop and get off to go move bales around on the bale wagon.

In the picture some of the bales are turned 90 degrees to the rest.... This is mechanically done and if you are doing a lot of stacking it is much faster and worth the money. Most stacks wont stay standing with out a tie or two.

A nice pull type would probably run around 7 I am guessing and I think it will stack in your barn. Lots of web pages will give you demotions and needs of a wagon. Lots of different models!

Sod Buster Sales Inc.- New Holland Used Bale Wagons


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## cattleman4170 (Jan 26, 2010)

MorningstarAcres said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Hubby wants to get a pull-type bale wagon, probably NH, and I'm wondering if it would suit our needs and circumstances.
> 
> ...


For years the wife drove the truck pulling a gooseneck trailer and me loading. At last, I recently bought a Hoelscher accumulator and grapple. I can not wait till hay is on the ground to try it out. Like Mike120 said, you can't find ANYONE to load or stack square bales anymore. No telling how much money I have lost over the years trying to conserve. The only thing I'm conversing now, is ME. WOW the wife loading a hay wagon, almost worth a picture Ha Ha.


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## cattleman4170 (Jan 26, 2010)

Roeder Implement,
This site gives some history about all the different types of pull wagons. List the years each model was made or last made. From my research, I think the model 1037 was a very good one. Still bring a premimum price if in good condition. The 1003's are late models.


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## CATTLEMAN (Jun 19, 2009)

Get on Roeder Equipments web site in Kansas. They specialize in refurbishing NH bale wagons. They give a chart with all models, what years they were built, and how much clearance you need to tip each load into place. 
If you consider going to a accumulater system; look hard at the BALE CADDIE by Koyker of South Dakota. Excellent machine. Good luck to you.


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## MorningstarAcres (Jul 13, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Hubby found a NH (can't remember the exact model #) for sale within 10 hrs of us that's listed at around $2000, so I think it's a good deal, if it's in decent shape. IF it works, it would be such a blessing! I enjoy the workout, but it always seems to be on the HOTTEST days of the summer, and I'm getting older every year lol. And YES, finding decent, reliable help to unload is hard to do. Our first two years doing hay, we did all the loading and unloading ourselves, without a hay elevator, and without a hitch for the wagon on the back of the baler. No one can say we haven't earned our stripes as farmers.

I saw a video of that accumulator that Mike posted about...fancy!







Looks nice, simple enough mechanism so as not to break down at just the wrong time, and easy to maneuver. We'll have to shop around and see if we can't find one for a decent price.


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## Heyhay..eh (Aug 7, 2009)

You have a lot of good information in the preceding posts. I will reiterate some and add some other information so as to give you a bit of a check list of things to consider. I am looking at this from the perspective of a NH bale wagon/picker

Critical

* the height of your rafters relative to the dump height of the load rack.
* the size of your tractor relative to the load capacity of the picker.
****the first point is obvious as without that considered you might not be able to dump inside you hay shelter which means hand bombing your loads.
****the second point might not be so obvious but it is a safety factor. If you have a light tractor and are pulling a wagon with a larger capacity you will always be at risk and you will find that your tractor gets roughed up by the momentum of the wagon.

Good to have

*As mention an auto tie which allows you to commence and complete the tie process without getting off the tractor
*a hydraulic chute control to raise and lower the pick up chute
*push off feet/load rack override
***The tying process is as Hay Hauler described and is a necessary procedure in gathering and stacking stable loads the need not be handled until use.
****Without the chute control you may either have to lift and lower the chute by hand or use a rope and capstan drive to raise it. Either of these methods involve more risk of injury and are time consuming, not to mention a pain in the posterior.
****I have seen some units without the override and I am not sure if it was due to the lack of the option or just poor maintenance. Without the override you must be diligent to ensure that your push off feet retract fully before you put your load rack down. If not you will soon notice 2 slow moving triangles looking at you in the tractor seat. Big job to fix. I broke the trip mechanism once and it wasn't pretty!

Efficiency

*the width of your hay shelter
*the tightness of your yard/building configuration 
*if you will stack to field and then retrieve
*if you sell hay the typical load size delivered and if you can deliver with the picker & tractor
*if you want the ability to unload one bale at a time to feed an elevator or stacking crew
****there are different width configurations for NH bale wagons some are 3 across others 2 (from the ones I am familiar with). To optimize the use of your space this might be something that you wish to consider. (remember the width of the wagon is greater that the bale configuration)
****larger capacity wagons are generally wider and a little more difficult to maneuver in tight spots
****If you are going to do this then you will want a wagon that has the capacity to retrieve stacks from the field. Some have this capacity and a rolling rack which allows for you to move the rack to the back of the deck, dump the deck and back under the bales to retrieve them.
****If you have customers that you are close enough to that will take loads delivered from the field then you might want to match your load capacity with their needs.
****some units have the capacity to convert to a single unload mode which is almost the reverse process of picking. The bales come off the side of the second table.

In your check of the unit look at

Under power
*the hydraulic system, pump, hoses, the function of the tables the dump and the push off.
*the drive shaft
*drive chains
*bale mover chains

Other
*Tires
*Hubs
*pick up chute damage and shoe
*table bumpers (rubber stand offs that the tables fall on when returned to resting position
*pivot points and connecting arms for the tables to ensure they have not been twisted, are askew, or worn out.

Again I know that I have reiterated some of what others have given you already but hopefully this list will assist you in going through the check off of some things to consider.

Take care


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

We used to have two bale wagons that each carried 55 bales. I ran the one that has a manual tie tier and my wife ran the one with the auto tie tier. I was young then and I could pickup hay faster than she even getting down on the 5 tier and hand moving the 6 bales, I could do it all from the ground with a hay hook. 
Then I got a single axle bale wagon that carried 83 bales, and put as many bales an hour in the barn as we did with two with 55 bales each.

A stack 7 bales high is only 11 feet tall but when setting the stack down you have the diagional distance plus the height of the bed so you need 15 foot clearance as the stack is being set up. That is when you need the clearance, but if you watch and if there is room between trusses you can stack with less than a 15 ft clearance. Just watch what you are doing. 
Something else you can do is not put a full second table the last tier and that will decrease your required clearance by a foot to a foot & half. This is all operator tecnique. If you are going to be doing the hauling and stacking you probably will not have any problem. .

The barn door part bothers me though. to stack hay in a barn you want to be lined up before you get inside the barn. Backing and manouvering a balewagon can be interesting.

The accumulator grab on a friont end loader may be a better option if your barn is not designed for a balewagon.

Last item, I owuld be slow to purchase a balewagon that is priced at $2,000. It may be one of the older 55 bale machines that can be a real learning experience.

If you get one be sure to get a operators manual and a parts book.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

The last two post are right on! $2000 seems to cheep! These machines are not a place to save money, buy a nice one if you want to be happy with it or make sure you or someone around your area is smart with these when it comes to fixing problems.

Barn doors can be tricky, you must push of as straight as possible or you run a risk of bending the push off feet, therefore if you don't pay attention you can actually get a machine stuck inside a barn when un-stacking.... You can't unload on pallets but you can on sheets of plywood if this would work for you&#8230;.

It seems that you can tell a lot about the how a machine was taken care of you how the sheet metal on the tables looks (2nd).... ripples = lots of use.

Pumps for these can cost some money... I think the pickup drive motor was around $400....

Like said before bushings and where pins must be in good condition, A local in our area broke a pin on the second table when it was going up and it crushed the cab of the machine now one was hurt but it shook up the operator pretty good.

Tractor weight is a big thing to consider as well!!!!!!! You don't what the tail waging the dog.

If you do get one expect a learning curve and a few stacks to fall over at first. I am 23 and have been running one since I was 14, I still loose a stack or two each year.... Plus the cleaner you keep them the better they run.

This sounds like a lot from all of us I know but once you get going is will become second nature and is much better than doing it by hand!

Keep asking questions most of us have been where you are at one point&#8230; and we can save you some time. Do you have pictures of the one you are looking at?


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

In 2006 I bought a new 1037 NH Bale wagon. Probably not the smartest 32,000 dollars I ever spend. After I purchased it I found late model ones for well under half the price I paid. The 1037 picks up 105 bales in about 15 to 20 minutes and it clears a field quickly. The problem is on the other end, these pull types will not put down a load that stays no matter how many ties you make. The auto is not auto on the pull types, you have to watch your counter then set the control to bring up the spikes. Any hay bale under 65 pounds does not spike the way it should. The lighter the bale the more problems you have with the trip handle feeding it from the 1st deck to the second. You can make as many adjustment as you can, and it still won't make any difference. Ask anyone who's run one on 55 pound hay bales knows this.


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

I was able to stack with a pull type when I was running one&#8230; lots of things in play here bale weight, density, and consistent sizes are very important I would say the most important! The bales must fill the 'uprights' in-order to make a straight standing stack. The amount of lean on a stack plays a big factor (too much is just as bad as too little). The surface stacked on. Fakes of old hay to fill holes or make a v for the stack to sit in helps a lot jus a few inches can make a difference! Leaning two stacks into each other side by side can help them last. Using stack poles when pushing out from a stack helps. Stack up hill and down hill must be taken into consideration. Concrete floors are not always as good as they might sound&#8230; Also where the tie is in a tier; front, back, middle. And each stack must be square to the previous one, Easiest way to tell is when the load rack is 2 bales off the ground backed agents the pile. If I am really worried about it standing I shorten the stack to 7 tiers instead of 9 and 3 ties with a cap tier. This is usually very sturdy. Allso smooth and slow helps when unloading thill the last foot or two off the ground....

It can be difficult but not impossible, nothing is impossible.

Bugcuz,

How were you making your ties? I used to put the tie in the middle of the tier; I found this left the front part of the stack prone to falling forward. Now I tie the front and seventh with a tie at the front of a standing stack and the fifth with a tie in the middle, along with a cap tier.

Also I used the word auto tie because I know no other name for it&#8230;? My machine is all mechanical as well no computers 1978 (year), if you watch your shadow on the ground it will count the tiers for ya, works till the sun goes down.

One on the left shows improved tie method, One on righ shows old method with 1 tie in the middel...

I agree I will not stack 55 pound bales Actualy a better term would be "soft" because a 14X18 36" grass bale is around 60 pounds usualy, and they dont stack so good.....

NOT attacking just offering some help....


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

I run a 1067 pull type 160 bales and double tie 4th tier and double 7th both on front pain sliing the 3 bales to the back of table tend to flip flat, not competly happy with it but be on the stack poles quick, backing in put table up a foot then you can see back wheels


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

expensive hobby,

When sliding the first 3 back try putting 6 on first (let the first table run twice), set the pins then slide the first three back. This works for me... gets the first three sliding easier and smoother. You dont need to send them far to make the tie work... about 1/2 or less on the second table... Make sence?


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

I agree with you "expensive". I still know no matter what you do you need at least a 65lb bale to work correctly. These machine's were never made for light bales. I


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## bugscuz (Nov 17, 2009)

No worries Hay Hauler, I've been doing this all my life and input is always welcome. There is a difference in runnning a pull type opposed to a motorized bale wagon. All I use mine for now is getting the hay out of the field. I take it to the barn, dump it and have kids stack it. If I had it to do all over again I would either have bought a motorized our stayed with my accumulator. Once the investment is made on a new pull type bale wagon you're stuck for a number of years. My input would be never!! buy a new one. Also the cheap one's can cause a real headache and one should be ready for the downtime.


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

hey hay hauler dont understand when 2 table goes up pins dont go with table on mine bales wont stay placed but i never tried singe tie just with one rail bale,what is a cap tier you are talkin about?


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Expensive hobby,

Ya I have done the double tie like you are talking about but it seems to leave a gap in the back of the stack on the length 16X18's that everyone is making in our area. Also it is more difficult and slow I have found. So I just do a single tie, on each tier like in the picture above. The tie tier in the middle of the other two tie tiers seems to hold the front of the stack well.

What is was talking about when above wont work like you said if your pins don't move with the table.

A cap tier is just a tie tier without the 90 degree bales. We use this a lot when the hay will be trapped. Helps to move air and holds the stack better. It's the top tier on the picture below. (Just run the tie pins up prior to any bales on the first or second table on the last tier of your stack. It won't hold as many bales but if I am not going far I think it is worth it picking 5 less bales.

This seems to be difficult to explain on a computer vs. in person... lol.


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

thanks for the info, il try that it will be nice to just have the poles on stand by,i put 2 rail bales with 5 sets in middle then the last 3 is normal, thats more square than 4 sets with with 2 sets of 3,if thats what you are talkin about the space


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

Ya that is the gap, but with a 16X18 I can only get 15 on a tier so their is either 4 deep in the middle with a full 3 across ( the corners of the 3 really stick out the back) , or 5 deep in the middle(creates a hole on each corner). You putting up 14X18's? If not what lenghts?

Ya see what you think of this method... I would use the poles the first few times till you decide if you like it... It does seem to be very important that each stack is directly in line with the one before it. The last two vertical rows of bales are just held in place by stack pressure....

To tell you the truth I use the poles every time&#8230; I really don't want to or have the time to restack if one falls. Plus customers get really upset if their stack falls, even if they want you stacking where you really shouldn't or can't&#8230;







I find if the poles are set right I only have to get out to move them forward after I dump&#8230;.


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## expensive hobby (Feb 16, 2010)

ya i make 14 by 18 around 36 long,when i start new stack i put 1 row along back of barn push offf of them makes a nice lean,get burned once and a while with stack fallin,just when im in hurry to lazy to get out of seat,gotta go!


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## hay hauler (Feb 6, 2010)

The bale trick sounds like a good one. I usually just try and guess.... I can get a bit wild unloading when I try and talk on my phone at the same time....







. Somehow I get most of my calls in the day during each 5 min of unloading... lol. Learned to just stop and talk, or ignore and go


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to bring a thread back from the dead but its the right topic. I've never used a bale wagon, and only seen them operating from the highway or youtube.

1) Can the problems with stacks being unstable/falling over be fixed by tying twine around a couple of layers of bales right before it it goes onto the last table in effect making tie tiers?

2) What exactly is the problem with light bales? Can't hit the trips for the tables right? Get mangled in the pickup? Just too squished when the stack is unloaded?

3) I've seen reference to pickup up bales on the flat so the final stack turns out on flat, which is easier to grab with a grapple. Some people claim it can't be done, others seem to imply its common to do. Whats the story?

4) Anyone handle the small stacks with a squeeze like the UK folks do with 56 bale stacks from a flat 8 system? You could load trucks/wagons pretty quickly. Not ideal width for a full load, but an 8x8 ft 105 bale stack would need a big rough terrain forklift.


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## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

With the 1003 pull type it is no problem to set the Auto Tie pins for a 34" bale length. 
A 34" bale will make a nice firm 55 lb bale. 
It works best if the baler operator knows how to run a bale wagon. 
For 35" bales I want no less than 11 strokes/bale Learn to count strokes. At 11 strokes per bale I drop down a gear with the baler tractor. At 18 strokes per bale I go up a gear.

Next watch as the bale falls off the bale turner. Learn when, for that day, the bale will fall off in relation to the tripping of the needles. When things change, get down and measure the bale length and check the bale weight. Every 20 to 40 bales get down and check the length and weight.

No talk radio or music while running equipment!!!!.
Listen to the equipment not Johnny Cash.

When the mind starts to wander is when things break.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

My baler makes very consistent bales when driving at a reasonable pace or if making bricks. It will make twice as many an hour if I push it but they look terrible both form and the length. If the length wanders 2-4", is that a problem? We normally make 40-45 lb bales about 33" long so they always stack 3 wide properly on a 102" wide trailer. Usually on the lighter side as we are in a wet area, if any bales are gonna go its the bricks.

If I want short bales, can I adjust the sides in tighter and adjust trips?


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