# Pick your poison - EGR or DEF tractor?



## 2ndWindfarm

I'm still looking for a 100hp tractor. I've seen some 2012-2014 (mostly Tier III-IT4) models that are just EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and DPF (diesel particulate filter) machines - no DEF. They have a "burn cycle" to clean the DPF. Then, there's the later machines, 2015-2016 (Tier 4 and Final T4) that have EGR+DPF and either one or two types of catalyst's. Deere in particular, uses a DOC (diesel oxidizing catalyst) and a SCR (selective catalytic reduction) system in concert with the EGR and DPF. These later models have a shorter "burn cycle" and therefore, use less diesel fuel to clean the particulate filter and they are more efficient in the amount of DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) that is consumed.

Reading through some of the comments on several different sites, it seems that the problems with the EGR tractors is worse than the later tractors equipped with the catalyst systems.

I'll admit that I haven't done an extensive "data mining" search of the comments here on HayTalk regarding owner's experiences with either of the later Tier machines.

Nonetheless, I'd like to throw it out there and hear from other's about their experience with the IT 3 through FT 4 tractors.

(Maybe I should join in on the "rush" to buy up the last of the 55 series...?)

Appreciate any and all comments.


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## mlappin

Neither, don't need the added aggravation.

Plenty of older, NON emissions tractors out there yet, many are ready to run, others may need a little TLC, either is preferable to emissions of any kind.


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## somedevildawg

You needn't look all the way back to the 55 series.....plenty of really good xx00, xx10,xx20, without them....


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## Hayman1

I have a JD6115M with a blast furnace and a 1000 hrs no issues


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## sethd11

2010 back new holland or case tractors seem to be good. No problems or any major issues other than occasions of cheap cables or plastic that's cheaply made.
6030,6040,6050 new hollands are very popular 6 cylinder engines around 100-130 hp. Plus no emissions, but 2011 up to the newer series had EGRs. (To the best of what I was told)


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## Lewis Ranch

I've got a 14' 6115r Deere with over 2100hrs and no problems as of yet. Knock on wood..


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## SVFHAY

I have a NH t6.155 with 750 hours. It has used a 55 gallon drum of def so far. No egr or dpf on these series of tractors. Zero issues with emissions so far.

Not a fan of egr in particular or government intervention in mechanical design, although I can let it run in the shop with the doors closed without smoking myself out, not so much with the old 4020.


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## Teslan

For your new tractor consideration. I can't remember who said it or what thread it was but someone said that the JD def systems or maybe the overall tier 4 systems weren't as good as Agco brands or NH/Case. I have a tier 4 MF and no issues yet. Sips def when baling. Gulps it when doing tillage.


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## deerezilla

I have a 8335r with 1800hr no problems also hav w260 it has 650hr nothing yet have a 6140r 3800hr no problems. We don't let them idle just warm up and cool down run full synthetic oils and lots of fuel treatments.


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## 2ndWindfarm

Got a laugh outta the "blast furnace" comment. My Dmax smells like somebody cleaning the windows with glass cleaner when it's running in the garage.

Warned not to let it idle more than 15 minutes by the dealer. Seemed like a weird demand; but, I didn't ask him why/why not?

I run synthetics in everything that rolls under power. And Power Service - it's available everywhere.

There's JD, Kubota, NH and LS in Alaska. JD has the best parts/service followed by NH (4 hrs. away) and then Kubota and LS.

Parts on anything older than about 10 years is a major stumbling block up here. I have shuttled core returns and used parts several times from All-States over the years. Shipping heavy iron parts like final drives, etc. up here is a down payment on a 2nd machine.

What's the thinking on replacement DPF and catalyst exhaust cans? Cost. Hours before they crap out?


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## Teslan

I agree that possibly idling def systems isn't good. The neighbor is a truck driver/mechanic and he says the def systems on semis are pretty good but have problems. Stemming almost 90% from idling. Which as we know truck drivers do a lot. You don't have to with tractors really at all.


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## slowzuki

Up here in the north little aux power units are becoming the norm instead of idling the main engine. It runs the power for the sleeper, heat, a/c and shares coolant to heat the main engine.



Teslan said:


> I agree that possibly idling def systems isn't good. The neighbor is a truck driver/mechanic and he says the def systems on semis are pretty good but have problems. Stemming almost 90% from idling. Which as we know truck drivers do a lot. You don't have to with tractors really at all.


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## MtnHerd

At work our engines with def have been much more reliable than the earlier ones with just the egr. Also seem to do better on fuel. The trucks and equipment we have gotten the last two years with def have really been very problem free. Not so with anything much earlier. Constant issues. Idling is a killer on the egr as it allows all the junk to build up but not burn off. All of the pickups have to do a lot of idling, so there were no more diesels bought after the trouble with the first egr equipped engines, but all of the tractors, dump trucks, backhoes and other diesel only equipment have certainly benefited from the def.

As for my personal use, my newest tractor is a 1994 and my newest diesel truck is a 2003, so I can't help you there. I certainly can understand your issue with finding (and then affording) parts in the great white north. I am sure you do not have many options. From my experience with the equipment at work, I would buy the newest def tractor I could afford. Good luck!


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## CenTex

If you also run diesel trucks as I do you probably have been through the complete evolution of diesel emission control technology.

I have been through:

- tuning only

- internal egr (via extra lobe on cam shaft)

- external egr through turbo

- external egr and DPF "after burner"

- DPF and DEF

and maybe the next truck will be DEF only

In my opinion the external EGR is the most trouble prone since it gets "gunked up" from all the dirty gases flowing through it and leads to engine overheating.

the early exhaust particulate filters (DPF) were bad news for engine wear since the raw gas injected during the exhaust cycle for later burning in the DPF washes lubrication off the cylinder walls and contaminates the engine oil.

the DEF is less damaging to the engine but its components are certain to eventually fail due to the highly corrosive nature of the DEF fluid.

I have decided that I will not buy any tractor newer than a 2012 although I could afford a new tractor. I just picked up a 2010 JD 7330 non premium because it is one of the last 150 HP Deere's without any external emission controls.


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## Idaho Hay

I have a Kubota M9960 that is Tier IV, and though it's sometimes inconvenient when it want's to regen, I've had no issues with it. I actually like how clean the exhaust is. It doesn't put off any smoke...ever. Unlike my old MF 1100 which will fumigate my entire 3000sqft barn from floor to sealing when warming up :huh:... On second thought, that might be good for reducing the insect population.


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## slowzuki

People keep saying corrosive nature of DEF but it's really a slightly weaker form of urea. Far less corrosive than say salt, urea was used everywhere for airport runway de-icing as it's not as corrosive. Been replaced by glycols lately at big airports.



CenTex said:


> If you also run diesel trucks as I do you probably have been through the complete evolution of diesel emission control technology.
> 
> I have been through:
> - tuning only
> - internal egr (via extra lobe on cam shaft)
> - external egr through turbo
> - external egr and DPF "after burner"
> - DPF and DEF
> and maybe the next truck will be DEF only
> 
> In my opinion the external EGR is the most trouble prone since it gets "gunked up" from all the dirty gases flowing through it and leads to engine overheating.
> 
> the early exhaust particulate filters (DPF) were bad news for engine wear since the raw gas injected during the exhaust cycle for later burning in the DPF washes lubrication off the cylinder walls and contaminates the engine oil.
> 
> the DEF is less damaging to the engine but its components are certain to eventually fail due to the highly corrosive nature of the DEF fluid.
> 
> I have decided that I will not buy any tractor newer than a 2012 although I could afford a new tractor. I just picked up a 2010 JD 7330 non premium because it is one of the last 150 HP Deere's without any external emission controls.


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## 2ndWindfarm

The "corrosive" issue has been a common thread with many comments. Which is why I wondered about the life cycle of the exhaust system; particulate burn pot and the catalysts.

I don't remember where I read it... But, somewhere I believe I read $8,000 + for a replacement! But, deerezilla's experience would tend to discount that issue.

I'm working across 3-4 different tractors during the year and any one tractor might only get 250 hours on it. So, 3,800 hours would take me about 12 years!!!


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## skyrydr2

Ahhh, its just a pain putting the extra cost and fluid in the newer rigs,but they work awsome! By the time you will need to replace the filters/exaust components the machine will be ready to trade in or the aftermarkets will have replacements by then. Personally I wouldn't sweat it with any brand but Deere, they seem to find ways to keep things pricey..


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## skyrydr2

Oh just for the record..All our forestry equipment is Deere and wouldn't have it any other way! Awsome machines! Cat aint got a clue when it comes to Forestry! 
The yellow line are really nice rigs, a bit pricey but wayyyyy worth it!
The green lines.... too many spoons stirring the soup....


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