# Glyphosate indused injury in Alfalfa.



## hay wilson in TX (Jan 28, 2009)

http://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/+symposium/2015/PDFfiles/Orloff%20Steve.pdf

Video Paper (PDF) Slides (PDF)

Recent Developments in Alfalfa Weed Control: Glyphosate induced Injury in RR Alfalfa and Sharpen Herbicide
Steve Orloff & Rob Wilson

The Video is not a pdf file but the paper and slides are pdf slides.

Just Maybe the folks against glyphosate resistant alfalfa have something. 
Maybe Time will Tell but for now just keep your Eyes open.


----------



## Hank- in or (Feb 12, 2009)

I have experienced exactly what is described in the article with RR alfalfa. When I brought it to people's attention they had never seen such a thing. Here I will not use more than 16 oz of Rup and will not spray is a frost is forecast for the next week. I also mix in a product like micro 500 which has helped with the yellow flash associated with the Rup on RR alfalfa.

In this pic you can see a RR alf field on the right that was conventionaly sprayed with metri DF .6 lb and on the left another RR alf field that was sprayed with 32 oz Rup and then got a frost a couple of days later.


----------



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

There are many formulations of glyphosate and from what I have heard some cause more yellowing and something to have quite is critical in some difficult situations I have gotten away from the super duper cheap generic at the end of the day you really only save pennies per acre and they don't do as well. We use PowerMax or Touchdown.


----------



## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

July 1st of 2014 I sowed 55 lbs per acre RR alfalfa and sprayed Roundup when the alfalfa seedlings were in their third trifoliate. (about 6 inches tall) I could see no damage to the alfalfa. Since then, I have found near zero weeds in the crop. (a total of 3 dandelions) The field has been through 3 state inspections for noxious weeds, where zero weeds of any kind were were found. The inspectors were amazed. "Never seen anything like this," was a typical comment

I see zero weeds in the field at this writing. I believe the thick stand (55 lbs) and near perfect soil nutrition is the key. So far, only the one spray was needed.

I know of another field of RR alfalfa near us that is thin and full of weeds, and I could tell from the thickness just after emergence that the farmer probably "saved a ton of money" on seed. From what I see, and from my personal experience, only one spray of roundup is needed in a RR alfalfa crop. This will likely change as the crop gets older and thinner. Bottom line is that I believe weeds have a hard time competing with a thick stand of properly fertilized and irrigated alfalfa. My take on it...


----------



## vhaby (Dec 30, 2009)

After reading a PM from Hay Wilson about the California alfalfa damage from spraying RU in cold weather, I waited for the proper following weather to spray our RU-Ready alfalfa this past Saturday. I included an insecticide for alfalfa weevil as a tank mix. Night-time temperatures will be in the upper 40s or higher for the next week.

Regarding no weeds in alfalfa, I can believe weed supression from a high seeding rate. You are right about weeds encroching as the stand thins.


----------



## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Hugh said:


> July 1st of 2014 I sowed 55 lbs per acre RR alfalfa and sprayed Roundup when the alfalfa seedlings were in their third trifoliate. (about 6 inches tall) I could see no damage to the alfalfa. Since then, I have found near zero weeds in the crop. (a total of 3 dandelions) The field has been through 3 state inspections for noxious weeds, where zero weeds of any kind were were found. The inspectors were amazed. "Never seen anything like this," was a typical comment
> 
> I see zero weeds in the field at this writing. I believe the thick stand (55 lbs) and near perfect soil nutrition is the key. So far, only the one spray was needed.
> 
> I know of another field of RR alfalfa near us that is thin and full of weeds, and I could tell from the thickness just after emergence that the farmer probably "saved a ton of money" on seed. From what I see, and from my personal experience, only one spray of roundup is needed in a RR alfalfa crop. This will likely change as the crop gets older and thinner. Bottom line is that I believe weeds have a hard time competing with a thick stand of properly fertilized and irrigated alfalfa. My take on it...


Wow. What was seed and feet cost per acre?

Is it paying off?


----------



## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

I believe it is paying off. I don't recall the price of the seed, but you can find that easily enough. This is what I did.

First I sent for a complete soil test; NKP, iron, copper, zinc, boron, sulfates, etc. I then amended the soil as recommended, except I quadrupled the rate for P, as phosphates don't burn and don't move thru the soil (leach downwards). This ought to last the crop for about three years. Next, when the plants were about 12 inches, I tested for cobalt. Alfalfa doesn't use cobalt, but the soil bacteria that fix the nitrogen for the alfalfa do need it. You can do this yourself my dissolving a vitamin B12 tablet in a gallon of water and spot drench a few flagged areas in your field. If there is a response in about 2-4 weeks (soil temp dependent) of more greening and growth, then your bacteria needs nutrition adjustments as well.

Not only does heavy seeding choke out weeds, it makes a better crop. Look at a tree seedling growing in heavy shade, its trunk will be thin. Another seedling the same age growing in full sun will have a thicker trunk. If you were to weigh the leaves from both trees, they would be close to equal, if you were to then weight the trunks, the tree in the sun would have more trunk weight. Now note, the shade grown tree will have about the same number of leaves as the sun grown tree, but the shaded leaves will be bigger but thinner. The sun grown leaves will be small but thicker. Same weights, different shapes.

Heavily seeded and think alfalfa stands will have thinner stems and a better stem to leaf ratio, resulting in a higher feed value rating in a lab test. I test every cut and give a copy to my customers.

The thin stems are also softer stems, because they have grown a thinner outer layer because of less sun and wind. Now thick stands have less wind per stem, less movement and also less development of tough layer of stem tissue. When a stem is moved by wind, a hormone called auxin moves to thicken the stems as a defensive action. I have grown thousands of tomato seedlings in glasshouses and would walk down the rows of benches and brush the stems with a long stick to move the plants every day, otherwise, they would fall over when shipped. This is one disadvantage to thick stands of alfalfa. Thin stemmed alfalfa will lodge more easily when wet. I cut every 28 days, and have had no problems. If I were to let the plants grow 35-40 days, they would lodge I'm sure. Luck has something to do with it. Luck is the secret password for weather.

Also, animals like to eat thin and softer alfalfa. Nicer for their mouths. Treat them right, grow them the good stuff, as we share over 90% of our DNA with these animals! I see it as my duty. (yeah, I know, you think I'm nuts)

From what I have found, thick alfalfa stands have less weeds, a higher food value and more tons per cut. I think my payoff was when I handed my first cut's lab test (grade superior) to a local animal (horse) person, showed them the weed certificate for that cut, and they came back in a couple of days asking me to hold all of my cuts next year for them. (I won't do that) My price was high, way over the other growers around here. Yeah, it pays off, my philosophy&#8230;.


----------

