# want to bale my own hay....where do i Start?



## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

OK, if this topic has been covered recently just point me to the thread.

Live in central OK. Want to square bale my 10 acres and neighbors 10, hopefully twice a year. Prairie hay for horses.

Equipment suggestions;

Cutter?

haybine??

rake?

Baler?

what's your advice for a rookie?

Have a Kubota 40HP tractor.

thank you


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## gradyjohn (Jul 17, 2012)

okiecraig said:


> OK, if this topic has been covered recently just point me to the thread.
> 
> Live in central OK. Want to square bale my 10 acres and neighbors 10, hopefully twice a year. Prairie hay for horses.
> 
> ...


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I am guessing Kubota L? It will handle a haybine and rake. It will not like it. My experience started with an L3400. It pulled a 7' haybine, rolabar rake, and Hesston 5530 rounder. Smallest American round baler. It did what I asked (28.5 pto) but did not like it. For square bales others will know much more. From what I gathered your tractor probably doesn't weigh enough for baling squares on the pto. Maybe an old engine mount baler? Good luck.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

What I have seen, and what I am guilty of myself, is spending more time worrying about equipment and not enough time worrying about your bottom line.
My opinion is that baling 20ac hay with a tractor that small will really increase the wear/tear/repairs on your tractor. The equipment you buy will be expensive enough and will also require repairs and sheds to park them in. If you are very lucky, you will break even.
Maybe you are doing this as a "break even" hobby? In that case, ignore the above.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

40 Engine hp or 40 pto hp? I think an inline baler (Massy 1837) will be way more then you can handle. I would look for an older JD or New Holland, You don't have the HP for a newer high capacity baler. Think JD 24T or 3xx, or NH 2xx or 3xx.

Your price range will depend a lot on your equipment. But equipment is only one part. You can have new equipment and make junk hay, or junk equipment and make nice hay. Try to find a mentor if you can.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Fowllife said:


> 40 Engine hp or 40 pto hp? I think an inline baler (Massy 1837) will be way more then you can handle. I would look for an older JD or New Holland, You don't have the HP for a newer high capacity baler. Think JD 24T or 3xx, or NH 2xx or 3xx.
> 
> Your price range will depend a lot on your equipment. But equipment is only one part. You can have new equipment and make junk hay, or junk equipment and make nice hay. *Try to find a mentor if you can*.


Amen on that.


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## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

Prices on used equipment vary around the country, but here's what you would be looking at around my area- an NH 47X or 48X haybine for $2,800 to $3,800, a NH bar rake, anything from a #55 to #256 for $700 to $1700, a 2 spinner tedder from $500 to $1500, a NH Baler, #27X to 28X with thrower, $1,500 to $2,500, one, preferably two bale wagons $1500 to $2000 ea. These prices are for good serviceable equipment and not junk. You could get stuff like a disc mower, etc. but the acres are not there. You have unfortunatelty picked a not so great time to get into baleing hay as used equipment prices are up because of the price of hay over the last year or so.


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

An older fella near me does several acres with a "L" series Kubota. He has about a 5' or 6' Case haybine (smallest one I've ever seen), a Rolla- bar rake, and a NH273 square baler. I'd bet he covers close to 100 ac per yr. I had him bale about 300 bales for me once. The lil bota seemed to pull the baler ok.
I would guess that equipment (minus tractor) could be bought for about $5000.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

ANewman said:


> An older fella near me does several acres with a "L" series Kubota. He has about a 5' or 6' Case haybine (smallest one I've ever seen), a Rolla- bar rake, and a NH273 square baler. I'd bet he covers close to 100 ac per yr. I had him bale about 300 bales for me once. The lil bota seemed to pull the baler ok.
> I would guess that equipment (minus tractor) could be bought for about $5000.


Probably owns it all and makes some nice profit.
Good for him. 
How's he get it out of the field and in the barn?


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks - all good commments and I appreciate the info. Tractor is a L3940 with 540 PTO. The reasons i want to bale my own:
1. TIming - hard to get baled on my litle acreages when the optimum time for everybody
2. way too much waste in feeding round bales
3. My wife can handle the square bale flakes for feeding time









I will get the bales to hay barn the old fashioned way; throw em on a flatbed and haul

Now I will go study all the equipment suggestions to get educated, then ill be back with more questions. lol


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## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

Craig, I do not know what 'prairie hay" yields, maybe it is really sparse. If you are doing something that might get you, say 3 ton the acre, you will be looking at close to 2,800 bales on the 20 acres you plan to do. I applaud your work ethic if you are going to gather up that many on a flatbed and unload them in a barn.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Orchard said:


> Craig, I do not know what 'prairie hay" yields, maybe it is really sparse. If you are doing something that might get you, say 3 ton the acre, you will be looking at close to 2,800 bales on the 20 acres you plan to do. I applaud your work ethic if you are going to gather up that many on a flatbed and unload them in a barn.


I did that this summer. It's tough, but I enjoy it more than any other work Ive ever done.
Gey youself a couple flatbed trailers. I did not do this and I wish I would have.


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## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

Would you be able to come to my farm the last week of May? I will be able to provide you many hours of free enjoyment!!


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

Orchard said:


> Would you be able to come to my farm the last week of May? I will be able to provide you many hours of free enjoyment!!


lol - smart a$$.

My land only yields about one round bale per acre due to droought impact so I dont expect too many square bales.


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## Canderson012 (Jan 17, 2012)

okiecraig said:


> OK, if this topic has been covered recently just point me to the thread.
> 
> Live in central OK. Want to square bale my 10 acres and neighbors 10, hopefully twice a year. Prairie hay for horses.
> 
> ...


 I went and bought equipment when I was 18 to start a hay business. You won't get rich but it is fun and you can at times. Got Kuhn GMD 500 disc mower, 4 basket tedder, and an 8 wheel V rake. Bought everything used and have had good luck. You can get that whole set up for under $6000. 40 hp is plenty. I pulled a Vermeer round baler with 55 pto. Good luck man!


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Double applause for the work ethic.....better buy you an accumulator or next year you'll be buying hay again......


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## ANewman (Sep 20, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> Probably owns it all and makes some nice profit.
> Good for him.
> How's he get it out of the field and in the barn?


He hires somebody to round bale some of it, but I see him and a few young guys putting the squares on a trailer and some wagons.


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## dubltrubl (Jul 19, 2010)

somedevildawg said:


> Double applause for the work ethic.....better buy you an accumulator or next year you'll be buying hay again......


I'll second that. Unless you have very reliable help, then all of your efforts and expense is for nothing if the bales lay in the field and get rained on. I realize that is of little concern for folks in drought areas at the moment, but that will change. If I didn't have the funds to buy a mechanical gathering system for the bales, I'd at least get enough wagons to stack the harvest onto and get the bales under cover asap. We have enough wagons and trailers to transport about 800 small squares (roughly a days worth of baling and then a bit) and I still sometimes wish we had one more wagon,,








Also, get a tedder. You may not always need it, but when you do, you'll be very glad you have it.
Build or have enough barn!
My $.02
Steve


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

What the others said.

Contact local dealers, watch classifieds, craigs list, etc. Don't expect to find the best for the least soon, it might take a while to find it. But put the word out, talk to all your neighbors & farmers in the area, ya never know who's gonna update when, & need to sell this to get that. There is good used equipment for a fair price, but you gotta be 'at the right place at the right time', and don't hesitate when ya find it or it'll be gone.

And then there is this option... http://www.smallfarminnovations.com/index.php


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## Nitram (Apr 2, 2011)

Where to start? Come north and watch me then do the opposite!


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

One thing I can share with you that might help:
I got started in hay 2 years ago after 15 years in the field mowing business. I thought I was going to stay small and keep it down to 30 or 40 acres as a little extra income. Well that didn't last more than a few months. I started eyeing up bigger fields and next thing I know, I'm headlong into this and barely giving my "main source" of income much attention. Fast forward 2 years and I'm hooked. I'm doing almost 150 acres with no intentions of stopping or getting smaller!

I guess what I'm saying is don't buy small stuff if you have any intentions of expanding, because you will have a hard time saying "no" if someone offers you more ground. 
Do not buy a rolabar rake. Make sure you buy a rotary or wheel rake if your tractor has the power to run one. I tried the rolabar rake for one cutting and it just ropes the crop. Get yourself a nice rotary rake and smile at the way it works. Trust me on that one. Hold on to your wallet. I didn't !!!!! Lol


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## wsmit13 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have done what you are thinking about doing!This is sound advice so I would take it as the truth because it is!I baled small squares with a 37 pto hp tractor pulling a IH 425 baler,raked with a 4 wheel 3 pt. hitch side delivery rake and cut with a 5 ft. manuael raise and lower kuhn cutter all with this same tractor! It was and is a kubota L-4200! It was ok but it was all the tractor wanted!I Put up @ 1000 bales a yr! Your tractor is too small and to little pto hp to pull the inline baler! It will work but you are asking for trouble in the short run! I now pull the same SQ. baler with a 55 pto hp tractor plus a 8 ft cutter and a v-rake also pull a 4x5 round baler with no problem!Tractor is a Kubota M-6400! I solely use my small tractor to pull the v-rake and pull the hay wagon!I hope this will help you and you will take my advice!ps do not go bear hunting with a 22 rifle!


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

This was my setup for 2500 bales a year for several years + baling 2500 bales for the neighbour for about 4 years. L5030HSTC (42 pto hp) NH489, JD336, IH/Hesston 4x4 round baler, 4 basket deutz fahr 17 ft tedder, not shown but a belt rake was used. Handled 8 ton wagons fully loaded down 10+% grade on our property.


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## TessiersFarm (Aug 30, 2009)

We used to do 25 acres with less tractor than that. Farmall H with 7' sickle $500, 4 basket tedder I had given to me, International Bar rake $300, New Holland 67 baler $500, and Ford NAA $1000. We have upgraded a few things over the years.

Still cutting with the H, slow but does a good job otherwise. We are currently in the market for a small Haybine, they are good cutters and the prices are low for good units because disc cutters are taking over the market. I hope to buy one for around $1200 to $1500. I would like to buy a small disc if I found one but prices seam to be out of my budget.

Tedder was a piece of junk, nothing but headaches, I sold it for parts at scrap price. I saw a 10' 2 rotor new for sale locally for around $2500 so I would think you could get a decent used one for half that. I ended up bartering for a used 4 basket, hydraulic fold, way more than I need but right price at the right time.

Rake turned out to be a good investment, with a few teeth has given us several years of good service. Ones I see locally seam to be $500 to $1000 range for bar or wheel rakes.

Baler turned out to be the best piece of all, I have put another $500 into it but it makes great bales, hardly ever misses and pulls easily with low HP. Balers I see on the market seem pretty expensive but a good baler could easily cost $2500.

As for tractors I like 2 in the field. I love the old ford NAA, it is great for tedding and raking, and it sips gas. The other tractor I currently use is a Massey Fergusen 135 diesel, I am guessing about the HP as your Kubota, probablly heavier. It does a great job baleing, and I hope to mow with it if I get the haybine this year.

We do not have a kicker, we do have 3 old wagons, but do not use them much. It is just as easy for us to drop on the ground then go around with a pickup and equipment trailer and stack them on. We haul more hay this way, hauls better and just works better for us in general.

I love making hay, and do it as much as a hobby as a job, however we are at the point I sold enough last year to pay for fuel, twine, repairs, and put enough money aside to buy a mower if I find a suitable one. Plus we use 1500 bales so I feel the investment was well worth the time for us. One thing I learned is cheap equipment is not always a good investment, however old equipment can be good equipment.

Just my 2c, probablly worth a penny.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

My wife's fitst cousin bought a 12 acre hay field 2 years ago. He had a 40 horse compact JD. Bought a 4x4 round baler, a NH 273 for squares, a 7 foot NH Haybine and a 4 wheel rake. His wife is a Tom Boy and was going to do most of the haying.
They could afford hay, just were afraid a drought might make the supply short.

He now has his little tractor to rake with, an 8 wheel V rake, two disc mowers and an new Deere 5083ECab/loader .

It gets in your blood.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Thats some good advice. I spent a bit on my baler, 2100$ about 10 years ago but it has been rock solid. 0$ in repairs in 40-50,000 bales. The belt rake that I don't have a picture of was 200$ at a year sale and has raked all that hay. Its first break down was this year, lost a tire, 16$ repair.

I've spent more time and money on frickin tedders than anything else. Our rough ground is hard on them. The first "free" deutz 4 basket we had sucked up about 500$ before it became a parts machine. The second deutz was 1200$ and raked less than 1 acre before its first major failure. Its wearing lots of the first ones parts now and has about 250$ of parts in it and its still only 3 legged needing a casting repair to be whole again. 1500$ for a NH (Kuhn) rear fold has been the most reliable tedder so far. About 15,000 bales with no downtime only tines for repairs.


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

OK, guys, I am back seeking more information. I want to go to all square bales and I want a baler that i can trust and care for like my own mother! SO, what is the optimum square baler for a Kubota L3940 without rear hydraulics installed? I want a simple, new baler that I can start and stop with my PTO lever.

Please keep the ridicule to a minimum if I am way out in left field..................


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Most basic square balers don't require a hydro connection unless it has hydraulic swing, pick-up, thrower, etc. that shouldn't be a problem....how much HP is that tractor with no aux hydro (not real familiar with the orange tractors) my choice would be the Massey 1837....bare bones you can buy for around 18k


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You may want to reconsider. Kubota L series cut are not made for this type of work. Search compact tractor square balers on Google and tractor by net. If that doesn't stop you good luck.


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## hayward (Jan 26, 2012)

I started out with 31hp kubota, it'll pull a 7' disc mower, or 9' Haybine
Try to find a good used 8 wheel v rake . Found used 7' Kuhn mower for 100 bucks n a vicon 240 (7') for 650$, rake for 1000. I have got some new equip now, but still use my old stuff time to time. Edges of feild, new feilds. 336 jd sq baler, little tractor never knows its even back there. Mower diff story, just have to take your time cutting, but you can do it! My .02


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I looked up the hp requirements for square balers and all of JD balers call for 35 hp as do the Massey Ferguson inline balers. New Holland baler however only the smallest model the 5050 calls for 35 hp while their higher capacity balers call for 60 and 75 hp. Any idea NH balers call for more hp than the equivalent JD or MF balers?

I run a NH 5070 hayliner and am completely satisfied but since hp is an issue I would go with the MF 1839 as in my opinion that would be the best baler of the 35 hp group. Any of the new balers are probably good machines though and it would not hurt to be thinking about a little larger tractor if your serious about putting up hay.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

For only 20 acres a year I would have a hard time justifying a brand new baler. I would also think that you may have a hard time driving over the windrows for an inline with your smaller tractor.

If you really want new I would go with the NH 5050

Personally though, I would just get a used, well cared for baler. If you are really worried about reliablity take a quality mechanic along that knows what your looking for & then pay him to go through it before you use it.


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

10 ac. yours/10 ac. somebody else's--contract it out.

10/10 is not enough acreage for the time and equipment investment that it will take. If your neighbor wimps out on you, you will only have 10 ac. to mess with and you'll e stuck with a lot of equipment.

Just my thoughts.

Ralph


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

There are threads for questions like yours. Most of the responses in the past is " don't bother". This thread however is getting you a ton on great advice. So as not to repeat the great advice, I will add this. Start slow, find a local who has the experience and equipment who you can pay to do some of the work. Perhaps purchase a good mower, Tedder and rake. Have them come do the baling. This makes it easy, as then a lot of the tractor time is yours. If any of your equipment breakes down its not the end of the world. The last thing you want is hay on the field, rain coming and your figuring out the rocket science of how a knotter works. Or why your bales are five feet long.

Your rake in my opinion should be your priority, It is the key to a good bale. Go with a rotary or v, in my application I spent good money on a Kuhn rotary, and in turn its a joy to rake with. 
I hope this helps, good luck and don't forget to have fun!


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks again for all the info so far. So, let's get some opinions on used equipment prices. FOUnd these 2 USED square balers on craigslist.......

NH 276 $2600. http://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/3862861223.html

JD 347 http://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/3863320958.html

Thoughts?


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

rjmoses said:


> 10 ac. yours/10 ac. somebody else's--contract it out.
> 
> 10/10 is not enough acreage for the time and equipment investment that it will take. If your neighbor wimps out on you, you will only have 10 ac. to mess with and you'll e stuck with a lot of equipment.
> 
> ...


Just trying to play devils advocate here. I agree that that acreage doesn't justify new equipment.

But, as I've said before, some areas having it custom baled it not really an option, especially not with smaller fields.

Also, most custom guys have there own hay to put up, which gets done before their custom work, which means your is lower quality.

Let's look at some numbers real quick, and make some assumptions.

10 acres @ 4 tn/ac = 40 tons of hay. 40 tons @ #50lb bales = 1600 bales per year. 1600 bales x $3/bale (average custom hire rate??) = $4800/ year out of pocket to pay someone to do it.

The neighbors 10ac could be done custom then & he could have an income of $4800 (notice I said income, not profit)

So, that would put $9600 in his pocket, in theory. Do that for 2 years & you just justified a new baler. Pick up another field or 2 & you might be talking profit.

Yeah, there is fuel, maintance, twine, ect, but I'm playin devils advocate here.

Personally, I would spend a lot less to start with, get a $2-3k baler & mower & a $1k rake. Have $5-7k into additional equipment & be able to recoop those cost the first year. Get into it with less initial cost cuz you may not like it. It really isn't as easy as it looks. Buy newer equipment as you go.

BTW, new doesn't always mean no headaches with hay equipment. A buddy of mine had a brand new baler get locked up on him the second time he used it. Luckily it was Friday night & the dealer was out first thing Sat morning. But if you are an acre into the field on Sunday morning with rain on the way, the dealer isn't open. You have a head ache even with your new baler.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Are you any good with a wrench? No reason for 10 acres you have to buy new shiny equipment. Cause its not like you have to rush to cram it in and go hit another field 2 days later.

You can buy in pretty cheap if your willing to work on stuff and buy older equipment.

Nothing wrong with a rollabar rake, they still work and are easy to fix. I'd say more than half the hay guys around here are still running them, including me. A NH 265 is about a grand, but a New Idea or an IH can be found in the 500 range. I would look for a 7ft haybine or even a 3pth sickle bar. They don't take much power. Yes they are way slower than a disc, but the price will be much better.

For a baler, my first IH 435 I bought at an auction for 500 bucks and got 3 years out of it.

I would caution however, I don't think those compacts are heavy enough to take the shock of a baler plunger. I've seen a few shaken apart. However you can grab an older Farmall etc for short enough money.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

okiecraig said:


> Thanks again for all the info so far. So, let's get some opinions on used equipment prices. FOUnd these 2 USED square balers on craigslist.......
> 
> NH 276 $2600. http://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/3862861223.html
> 
> ...


I know nothing of the JD, or the condition of the 276, It does however look like a few rattle cans of red have been used. Don't let the shinny new paint fool you! If at all possible bring some one with knowledge with you if you don't know what your looking at, some times you can even hire a service tech to come with you to look. I have done this when going to look at a used IH966, it was well worth the cost of getting stuck with some one else s money pit. Something else to consider brand wise is whats your closest dealer for parts and if need be service. This is as, important or more important than the color of the paint. Out east we see a ton of NH 273's.

Dill mentioned that there is nothing wrong with a rollabar rake, he is very correct. They have been working hay for decades, and are still working. And yes they would be your most cost effective way to make windrows. If you are hell bent on new, I have heard good things on Kuhn's "Haybob" it is a rake and tedder in one implement.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Not sure about the Kuhn version but the New Holland Hay Bob's were terrible, same with the vermeer. Seems that whenever a machine is going to do more than 1 job, that means its going to be worse than a machine that just does 1. Plus the NH hay bob was quite heavy, way more than he could run with his wee lil kubouta


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

347 is wire tie....you want wire?


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## circlehfarms (Aug 20, 2012)

okiecraig said:


> OK, if this topic has been covered recently just point me to the thread.
> 
> Live in central OK. Want to square bale my 10 acres and neighbors 10, hopefully twice a year. Prairie hay for horses.
> 
> ...


I was in the same boat as you a few years ago, although had more acreage to work with. I went in on halves with a local man that I knew. He cut hay for his beef cows. I would sell what I could and he would usually buy the rest. Two seasons ago his health went south so I bought some equipment. I paid $750 for a NH 268, $400 for a JD bar rake and $1000 for a 7' disc mower, and mid season I found an old Vermeer roller for $350. I used this equipment for 2 seasons with minimal break downs. Although I only cut and baled about 1/4 of the land I had available. I was able to find a few locals that bought all of my hay for two years in a row and this year I upgraded a little. I ain't making a killin but it pays the taxes on the family farm plus a cash to make it worth while. At times it can be very aggrevating, but I still enjoy it for the most part. I was able to learn from the man that baled it before I did. If it wasn't for him the learning curve would have been much greater.


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## N2MyWake (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm pretty new here but have been bailing my own small acreage for the past 5 years or so. I had trouble getting mine baled when it was ready too then it would be burnt up by the time they got to me.

THe others are right at least get a 2 basket tedder it saves drying time for me. I try to buy equipment off working farms (not consignment ever).

I now bale for other neighbors in exchange for them putting my hay in the barn.... (just bale yours first)....

After inputs I don't make a dime.... lol


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## pitotshock (May 30, 2011)

I was in this same boat a few years ago, couldn't rely on the neighbours anymore as they have their own priorities and when the sun shines, their hay gets done. lol. So we moved towards doing our own hay. You need to be handy to keep the older/tired machines running. If you aren't handy now, you will be! And for heavens sake, don't ignore the safety warnings: every year people are killed and maimed by these machines because they are doing things that they know they shouldn't be doing.

All I can say is buy a big heavy tractor to run the small square balers, for fun we tried to run the NH268 on a Kubota L355 (36hp) and it will throw that 2000lb tractor around like a toy. Get that large reciprocating plunger mass up to full speed in a small square baler and it puts a lot of force through the draw bar to the tractor. Even one of the neighbours IH434 (43hp 4600lbs) was too small to run it smoothly. When the needles actuate I swear that tractor went backwards for half a second. However, my grandfather made 6,000 bales a year with a 30hp tractor 45 years ago so it can be done...

Round balers on the other hand are very well behaved. Look at the difference between a 5x6 round baler and a 4x4x8 large square baler, the same amount of hay stored, the later needs over 100 more horsepower to run.

My advice to a newby on equipment purchase for 20 acres and a small tractor

NH 477 7' haybine - mower with conditioner - walk away if the the rubber is falling off the chevron rolls. Spend time to learn how the knives and guards work and maintain these and it will work well for you. Don't mow wet or moist hay, you'll spend more time under the mower than driving the tractor. Set your windrow as wide as you can without driving on it when mowing the next row.

5 bar roller rake, ground or PTO driven - cheap to find and they work to make hay. They have more than 100 tines so if it is missing a few its OK, but too many and you can end up spending a fortune buying tines. Upgrade later to a rotary or wheel when you start 'making' money on your hay

NH 65 baler - smaller chamber size and less reciprocating mass - basic design. Look for wear/damage on the knives inside the chamber as well as the plunger bearing/guide condition. The knotters are awesomely complicated to look at but the design hasn't changed in 70+ years so they work. Look for wear on the inside of the cams (big round cast iron pieces in the middle of the knotters) where the little brass ball runs around moving the duck bill / knife (this will most likely sound completely foreign to someone new to balers) Learn how to adjust the plunger knife clearance and needle timing and it should make some nice bales for you. Don't use plastic string in these old ones, just jute twine.

Buy these 3 things and get makin' hay, throw the bales into the back of a truck and your done. Oh and making hay is addictive and you will buy more equipment as the years go on and soon enough you will have 3 tractors, discbine, wagons, tedder, 30' rake, plow, cultivator, seeder, harrows, fertilizer, grapple, round baler, hay storage buildings, equipment storage buildings and your best friend will be the weatherman who is always wrong...


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## bluefarmer (Oct 10, 2010)

You must really have a lot of spare time if your gonna buy hay equipment for 20 acres, I don't care how cheap you get into it, it ain't worth it. There is more involved than your figures and what meets the eye, just my 2 cents!!


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

bluefarmer said:


> You must really have a lot of spare time if your gonna buy hay equipment for 20 acres, I don't care how cheap you get into it, it ain't worth it. There is more involved than your figures and what meets the eye, just my 2 cents!!





bluefarmer said:


> You must really have a lot of spare time if your gonna buy hay equipment for 20 acres, I don't care how cheap you get into it, it ain't worth it. There is more involved than your figures and what meets the eye, just my 2 cents!!


I disagree. A man has to start somewhere. Not everyone grows into an operation. Some have to start from scratch.


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## T & R Hay Farms (Jan 19, 2012)

JD3430 said:


> I did that this summer. It's tough, but I enjoy it more than any other work Ive ever done.
> Gey youself a couple flatbed trailers. I did not do this and I wish I would have.


If you are offering, My dad and I could use you this Friday through Sunday. Hoping to get roughly 3000-4000 up. ...


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## pitotshock (May 30, 2011)

bluefarmer said:


> You must really have a lot of spare time if your gonna buy hay equipment for 20 acres, I don't care how cheap you get into it, it ain't worth it. There is more involved than your figures and what meets the eye, just my 2 cents!!


It might not make sense for a real business, but a hobby farm is just that: a hobby.


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## Tim/South (Dec 12, 2011)

In some areas a person may find it hard to get a custom bale operation to do their hay. Our guy died back in 1974 and we bought a baler.

I bought a round baler when I had trouble getting anyone to roll my hay after I had all the squares I need.

It is a good feeling to put the last hay in the barn for the day and know you just spent 3 days to have that moment.

There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to be independent. I guess it depends on a person's personality and means.


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## bglz42 (Oct 5, 2009)

Lot's of good advice on this thread!

I can understand the OP's motivations. Sometimes it's not all about the money. I started doing my own hay because:

1. I like doing it, and the satisfaction I get.

2. I want my hay cut when I want it cut, and don't want to play second fiddle to someone else's pasture.

I will probably not ever get all of my money back on my equipment. My fields surround my house and orchard, so I like to keep them looking good. I'm also cutting and baling for my neighbors. And I enjoy my tractor time, so to me it's worth it.

I have a variety of old and new equipment. My suggestion is to start with what you can find and afford. The equipment holds it's value pretty good, so you can improve/upgrade as you go. Good luck!

Jim in Texas


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## bjr (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm a way smaller operator than you and I've 35 hp Jinma JM354 tractor and a NH269 using poly twine and a very old IH no. 5 rake and a brand new SFI 2225 (135) Drum mower. I couldn't any kind of mower around here that wasn't just trashed, so, I went for new drum mower. They are 'bout one third the price of a disc mower, but, for small operations, they are very capable machines. Good Luck. bjr


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I would say that anyone who buys all the hay equipment to bale 20 acres is going to be surprised at all the unknown expenses you will have. You basically need the same equipment to bale 20 as you do to bale 90. 
I started with only 20, but now have about 135. 
20 acres of typical hay wouldn't cover the purchase price for all the equipment, fuel, insurance and of course your own time spent doing it for many, many years if this is to be a for-profit venture. 
However, if its a hobby, then that's a different story. A hobby ain't supposed to make money. As said above, you gotta start somewhere. I was given nothing. No land, no equipment and no knowledge. I just started. Man it's been tough, but so satisfying, too.

I'd say stick around here at this website. I have never seen a nicer group of more helpful people. The guys who started, monitor and contribute the real sage advice on this website are mentors and helped me get started. Other than that, you just gotta go out and do it!


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

The other big thing is hay its a tax deductible hobby. I have friends who spend just as much on rock buggys, jeeps etc. But I get to write my toys off and they just get to keep fixing them.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Dill said:


> The other big thing is hay its a tax deductible hobby. I have friends who spend just as much on rock buggys, jeeps etc. But I get to write my toys off and they just get to keep fixing them.


In PA I think they finally start disallowing tax deductions on hobby businesses.


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## Dill (Nov 5, 2010)

Well no income tax here in NH. So that's not the issue. But good old scheldule F on the 1040.


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## whitmerlegacyfarm (Aug 26, 2011)

Started making hay on my own 10 ac, now i'm dong 40ac total. I started as a hobby on my own ground, for our horses, now im addicted and picked up 30 ac free lease this year. Been busy trying to keep up, weather has been putting me behind. Cut some today just taking a chance.

I'm running a Kioti 50hp hst, i pull a NH 479 haybhine no problem, can take it anywhere and cut with my Kioti. I pull a nh 269 sm sq baler also no problem, drop um on the wagon.

As far as a rake and tedder, get a rake/tedder combo deal. I have a NH 255 rake/tedder. I love it. I have not yet used it ro rake but it does a decent job tedding out. I still use a nh 56 rolabar rake. I started to with no previous experience other then throwing hay bales around for farmers. Learned everything from asking neighbors and all the people on this forum.

Good luck and have fun


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

Whew! SO much great information/data I am back to analyzing best setup for prairie hay on fairly flat land.

I am south of TUlsa, ok and can wait for perfect dry weather which we get plenty of in the summer. So, I am now considering a sickle mower, rake, baler setup that will suit my L3940 (or Massey 135) and not require rear hydraul;ics.

However, given my weather should I consider a swather or haybine and skip the raking step? I see folks using a swather one day and baling the third day.

ALos, my nieghbor has a NH haybine that i could buy for next to nothing but it needs alot of refurbishing.

Has anyone used any of the products from SFI? (http://www.smallfarminnovations.com

Thanks - my wife says I am getting addicted to this site.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

okiecraig said:


> Whew! SO much great information/data I am back to analyzing best setup for prairie hay on fairly flat land.
> 
> I am south of TUlsa, ok and can wait for perfect dry weather which we get plenty of in the summer. So, I am now considering a sickle mower, rake, baler setup that will suit my L3940 (or Massey 135) and not require rear hydraul;ics.
> 
> ...


If you have no hydraulics to the rear, but still need a way to get the bales in the wagon, get a bale basket. I ran one off the back of my new holland 311 baler and it worked about as good as I would hope. The bales just come out the baler chute and push up into the wagon. Holds 130 bales. Then just tow it to the barn and dump it. No hydraulics needed.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=mtItiaC5_Uk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmtItiaC5_Uk


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

The with no hydraulics how do you plan to lift the cutter head on the mower?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Will 400m said:


> The with no hydraulics how do you plan to lift the cutter head on the mower?


Good point. I was only taking about baling. 
I'd feel helpless without 2 sets of remotes on both tractors. Lol


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Been so long but....I don't thnk I needed a remote for my sickle bar mower....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

somedevildawg said:


> Been so long but....I don't thnk I needed a remote for my sickle bar mower....


Unless its hydraulic raise/lower!!! Lol


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

If its just a plane sickle some were just raised with the 3 point and some were hydraulic. I know all the haybinds are and most of the trailed sickle machines were as well. I guess in a pinch you could rig up a hydraulic power pack like off a dump body or something of that sort. I thought about doing that so I could rake with a trailed rotary rake and the 2n I have now but I thing that tractors not to long going to be going away and something a bit bigger will take her place and it will have a few more pony's and remotes too. But it could be made to work. I thought even the smaller tractors had remotes but I worked on a 2012 Bobcat CT230 it didn't have any remotes must be an option. Peace of junk any way hydrostatic felt stiff and jerky and they had it on the lot and never sold the thing ended up at auction.


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

You might be able to get rear remotes installed on your tractor. Personally I would not want to go to the hayfield with a mower that I could not hydraulically raise and lower when need be.


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## Fowllife (Sep 10, 2010)

Believe it or not but some of the old haybines are manual lift. IF you want to lift at the end of a row you stop the tractor & walk back to raise it, then when you are in position you walk back & lower it.....most had hyd lift though because that was a pain.

My old trail type sickle mower has mechanical lift. You pull a rope with the PTO on & the bar raises about 8" or so, just enough to clear anything you may have laid down.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Fowllife said:


> Believe it or not but some of the old haybines are manual lift. IF you want to lift at the end of a row you stop the tractor & walk back to raise it, then when you are in position you walk back & lower it.....most had hyd lift though because that was a pain.
> 
> My old trail type sickle mower has mechanical lift. You pull a rope with the PTO on & the bar raises about 8" or so, just enough to clear anything you may have laid down.


That's the way mine was, get off and raise/lower it.....always figured I would get a finger caught in the teeth as it moved while raising and lowering....dangerous piece of eq....


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## biker250 (Jun 19, 2013)

Well I just read every post in this thread and there seems to be a whole lot of advice, for better or worse. I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but I am personally in almost the same exact situation as the original poster. My specific question is: Is there a problem using a JD 4020 to do all the hay work if you're using small hay equipment? More specifically, would a JD 4020 tear apart a small square baler such as a JD 14t? I realize the 4020 is way overkill for a small hay operation, but if I'm using the tractor to do other things and it's what I have, would it work? Thanks.


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## Will 400m (Aug 1, 2011)

I dont see why but you can way over power alot of stuff and have plenty of room to go bigger have plenty of power to spare. I have seen people who have 80 horse tractors on a tedder that takes aroung 20 to run. There bearly able to tell there there. Although a 14t was a realy small baler and has been around for some time now and seen alot of hay im sure. May want to see if rounds are better for your area and better suted for your tractor.


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## AndyL (Mar 9, 2013)

By all means use it. I tedded with the 4020 today. Gonna rake with it tomorrow. Was gonna bale with it too, but got the hyd. leak under the floorboard fixed on the 4230 this evening. Now just gotta get a new hyd. pump for the 2030.

But the 4020 is a great all around tractor, biker250. Should be a smoother ride pulling the lil square.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

You are going to burn some extra fuel but if that is what you have the fuel is probably cheaper than another tractor.


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## Orchard (Mar 12, 2013)

Biker250, if you are in the same situation as the original poster, you are going to be sitting pretty with the 4020. If i remember correctly the original poster was going to start out rather small, but had some additional or extra acreage that was going in to hay. If you are in the smae space and your operation will expand, the 4020 will be real nice to have.


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## crashncowgirl (Jun 25, 2012)

I use a jd 1209 haybine 2 basket Tedder jd 14t baler and an agri-power 5000 tractor. Going to upgrade to a drum mower this year. Buy the least expensive equipment that works.


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

I just revisited this post and all the mostly (LOL) helpful comments. For the past 2 years I have paid for having the 20 acres baled and get about 200 bales. The only drawback has been dirty bales as the rake used was a 8-wheel rotary that picked up all the thatch and leaves from the treeline. So, I just bought a NH 258 rolabar for raking this year.

I still want my own cutter and baler but will wait until I get a tractor with more HP. My Kubota L3940 is about 10 years old with only 880 hours so I may just trade it in.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Tractor is hardly getting broken in! If you are trading to upsize good deal. If not, why?


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah... just broken in good!

Personally I wouldn't want a NEW tractor-- all that electronic/pollution gibberish fouling everything up-- I'd look for a GOOD USED tractor about 10 years old before all that bullcrap got installed on them... Go as big as you need for a LOT less money than what new iron with all the electronic gibberish costs... and usually cheaper to maintain as well.

Not like you're doing 10,000 acres a year with it...

Later! OL J R


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## okiecraig (Oct 6, 2009)

Deadmoose and Luke - I would only be trading in for more HP. And you guys are right, the Kubota is just getting broken in and has been perfect since I bought it with just regular maintenance. Thanks for your responses.


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

If you solve your quality problem by raking the hay yourself and find a custom operator that will do it for you, you will be money ahead at the end of the day with a good custom operator.If you invest 5K or 6K in equipment for 200 bales of hay a year you will never break even. Those 200 bales would be worth $800 to $1000 sold on a rack out of the field. I like baling hay but I don't do it for exercise you have to look at the bottom line.


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## Swv.farmer (Jan 2, 2016)

Ok hear is my 0.2 worth for the tractor you have a good used drum mower a 2 basket tedder a by roller bar and a decent squar bailer.
Why the drum mower because they are cheap fast and dependable.how many 30 year old disc mowers do you see in use.and they only need around 20 horse power.

I do around 80 arcers 2 times a year and outher than a Heston 5530 roller this is what I use works good for me.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Beav said:


> If you solve your quality problem by raking the hay yourself and find a custom operator that will do it for you, you will be money ahead at the end of the day with a good custom operator.If you invest 5K or 6K in equipment for 200 bales of hay a year you will never break even. Those 200 bales would be worth $800 to $1000 sold on a rack out of the field. I like baling hay but I don't do it for exercise you have to look at the bottom line.


By that logic no one would ever start. Gotta start somewhere. Some will move up and beyond. Some won't. If they are gonna have fun in the mean time, why not?


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

Fun is family vacations golf or whatever else you all do for fun. This is a business you need to look at the bottom line. 200 bales is hard to justify 5K in equipment.In the late 90's our 550 Massy combine was on it's last legs. We row cropped about 250 acres of corn wheat and beans. It was a different combine 35k to 40k,find a custom operator or quit row cropping. Looked all over for a combine because I like to run one but once we found a custom operator bottom line said hire him. By selling the old combine and heads paid 3 years of custom combining and hauling.They were done in 2 days and I was a my job while they were doing it. I like to run a combine as much as the next guy but need to do what is best for business.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

Depends on the reliability of your custom guys in your area...

I know a lot of guys that get plum mad when "little guys" do it themselves rather than hiring someone else... BUT, then they either have too much business to get it all done in a timely manner or just take their sweet time (which is most often the case) getting the work done and just leave you hanging... It's bad enough when it's a row crop like cotton or grain that CAN sit in the field for awhile (though at risk of weather deterioration) but when it's a hay crop that will rapidly get over-mature and decline badly in quality, waiting is the difference between getting a good crop in the barn and paying money for worthless cardboard bales fit only for bedding...

I know when I was doing custom work, as a little guy, I did everything I possibly could to get to a guy's job quickly and do it right... and I constantly PO'd the "big boys" with their big equipment running around in their shiny new high dollar diesel pickups that would just leave guys hanging til THEY decided they wanted to get after it and get it done... My old boss at the bus barn called me one day and said, "How soon can you bale my hay patch?? I've called the 'regular guy' (BTO) several times over the last month and he STILL hasn't shown up to cut it... can you come cut it??" "Sure", I said, "Be over there this afternoon."

Went over and started cutting one patch, and within 30 minutes the BTO comes racing in on his tractor and starts cutting the other patch (realizing he was gonna lose his "easy money" to me) and so he did the other half of the job. The patch I cut was raked 24 hours later, when it was wilted flat and at the proper moisture and ready to rake. The BTO left the other (virtually identical) field lay flat for a week and didn't do anything to it but leave it to burn to a crisp under the hot Texas sun... Just before I baled it, we got a heavy shower, and after checking it, I realized that to put up good hay I needed to let it dry off on top well and then roll the windrow over with the rake and let it dry out nicely, which I made another trip back with the rake and did. The BTO left his patch lay and rot in the sun... I rolled it over that afternoon, and baled the next morning. The hay was very nice and still had an excellent green color, proper moisture, and was good hay. I left the rounds on the field for a few days to "sweat" and then came back that weekend to move them to one end of the field as we agreed. The BTO was FINALLY out baling the patch he cut the same time I did, running a rake with one tractor right ahead of the baler on the other... I stepped into the field and looked at the sun-bleached, bone dry STRAW that he was baling up and I wouldn't have given you a plug nickel for the whole batch...

I know there are some good custom guys out there, but honestly, I've seen a LOT more bad ones than good ones... especially in the hay business... at least in our area... Hopefully other places are different.

In my experience, "if you want it done right, DO IT YOURSELF!"

Later! OL J R


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

We got into hay for the following $$$'s

Sickle mower $750

Rake $300

Baler $550

50 gal sprayer $50

That's around $1,650

The next year - we added a tedder - $500

We already had a couple of tractors - basically we went from bush hogging our old fields to making trash hay off of them.

A little 2,4-d and we had pretty much weed free hay.

That's where we could have stopped. If I was feeding cows, goats or even horses - of my own, we would have stopped.

So you can get all of you're equipment, get your hay down and baled for not a lot of dollars.

Where the game changes is on two fronts (for us). First - we are selling out hay. We are moving to more reliable equipment as we go, or adding redundancy. We'll never be "big", but we want to get our hay down, baled and in the barn without breakdowns with rain coming. Color is important too and if you are down, you've got a bleaching problem. Secondly - we are opening up more acreage. That, combined with a day job - leaves little time in the evenings and sometimes on the weekend to deal with hay. With that, we have added a haybine (conditioning should shave off some dry down time) and a JD 348 baler, in addition to my 68. We may find ourselves using two balers at the same time if our window is short - moreover, we have redundancy. If you can't make a square, you can't sell and you're cooked. Lastly, on my list is reliability (again). I'm starting to get to old to be on my head fixing equipment and explaining to my doctor that I didn't punch a wall, the scabs on my knuckles are from the wrench slipping while working on a piece of junk/rusty hay equipment! I want more equipment that requires less time in the shop than it does in the field AND also am laying the equipment foundation (we'll use this equipment long term - lots of years) for my boys. I like the idea of handing off to them a reliable / fully paid hay operation that they can pick-up and make a little $$$'s for themselves without spending a dime of their own money.

Is it a LOT of work - yes. Is it a LOT of fun - for me it is. Best of all the time spent working and haying with my family is worth (to me) every dime I've spent. With the exception of the weather, it's GREAT being in control of our hay and fields. Leading up to this, we couldn't get anyone to cut and bale and just take the hay for minimal compensation to the land owners (us). Now we are heading for very nice quality hay. When I look over the finished field, hay in the barn - maybe it ain't like throwing a touchdown pass and winning the game - but feels pretty good.

So again - you can make squares (on you're terms vs a contractor) for not a lot of $$$'s, but you need to be prepared for breakdowns and be handy with a wrench.

YMMV - HTH

Good luck,

Bill


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

You sound like a good & honorable man, Bill.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

JD3430 said:


> You sound like a good & honorable man, Bill.


Thanks for the compliment. I kind of think I'm a work in process..... 

Bill


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