# Obamacare



## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I have Obamacare health insurance and I constantly get a warning if you are seat receiving a reduced premium due to your income and your income changes you must notify us immediately and return all premium reductions and it continues to say and if you have used a policy you may be subject to higher premiums and co-pays after your income goes up and all that is due back immediately. I still run self employed and this year my income dropped dramatically do two big losses on our dairy farm. So the estimate I gave them in the beginning of the year was way wrong that estimate was last year's income. I had shoulder surgery this year paid for 30% of it which was to max out at 14 to my maximum out-of-pocket cost. My account and says with this lower income I have overpaid by month monthly premium by $680 per month. He said the operation and the hospital stay under my new lower-income we submitted I would now only owe 10% of that not 30. Plus it would lower my maximum out-of-pocket cost to $2,000 from $14200 . The hospital billed my share of the surgery at that $14,200 but offered me a 50% cash discount which we took advantage of and paid up front at time of surgery. So we are due a ton of money back that we already paid ..jMy accountant says he will be anxious to see if we get it.(


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Good luck....I hope it works out for you.

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Well it's great its working for you in a time of low milk prices.But it also works that way for people that choose not to work.Thats the problem I have with it.

Just met with my Insurance agent yesterday and got the bad news,69% premium increace for me Jan 1


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Variable income (as farmers can have) is the absolute pits, with regard to Obam....sh...coverage. My son had similar problem, when his income changed.

Hard to smile about this land mark garbage. Feel for ya , endrow, hope you can come out at least a little ahead. Just beware if what can happen if mile prices increase (and your amount of premium) in the future.

Larry


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## Thorim (Jan 19, 2015)

I hope it works out for you..... Hopefully with the defeat of the beast Trump keeps his campaign promises and repeals the Obama mess....


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## Uphayman (Oct 31, 2014)

The Mrs. and I went into my insurance agents office the day before the "erection". Told him " I want to pay more and get less coverage.......can you help me out? (Jokingly of course). After going over all the options, we only have 1 carrier in Michigan, my request was met. An additional $400/month.......another doubling of the deductible. 
Obama care makes me sick. We don't want the headaches of subsidies (again the issue of variable income). The democrats wondering what happened????????? We're getting tired of taking up the a$$ , and I'm not talking proctoscopic test here folks!!!!!!!!


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

I hate Obamacare


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

r82230 said:


> Variable income (as farmers can have) is the absolute pits, with regard to Obam....sh...coverage. My son had similar problem, when his income changed.
> 
> Hard to smile about this land mark garbage. Feel for ya , endrow, hope you can come out at least a little ahead. Just beware if what can happen if mile prices increase (and your amount of premium) in the future.
> 
> Larry


 You got that right Larry if the wife and I would get no premium reduction and have to pay the list price on our policy it would be $2,004 per month. It just blows my mind


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

endrow said:


> You got that right Larry if the wife and I would get no premium reduction and have to pay the list price on our policy it would be $2,004 per month. It just blows my mind


You just have to remember the wankers in Washington responsible for this have to no real ideal what is affordable for the average american as they all make almost 200K a year, then of course all the graft, kickbacks, freebies, perks, lifetime pension and healthcare they are in all reality probably pulling down well over 500K a year if not closer to a cool million. Even 5K a month would be viewed as affordable to one of those asshats.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

We were forced to switch to United Healthcare aka Obamacare late last year, 10k deducatble...2781.00 a month.....I needed some topical steroids and they would only pay for 2.5oz tubes vs 5 oz tubes....went through the first tube in 2 days....went to get more and they said they would have to order it as they didn't have the 2.5 oz tube, only the 5 and UHC said they would only pay for the 2.5....now mind you, I had to pay $40 for a co-pay and the shit is $98 for a 2.5oz tube  I'm in the wrong business  either insurance/medical supply/manufacture/pharmacy but definitely not farmer......


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

Endrow, Did you call into the marketplace and talk to the support people? My wife has do deal with some of that stuff for her employer. The support people are borderline useless, but it might be a help to see what they have to say...


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I really feel for you guys with this Obamacare bullshit.
I'm very fortunate to be married to a teacher and we get excellent healthcare for our whole family.
I read this stuff you fellas go through and I'm amazed at the stupidity of the affordable care act and saddened with the financial stress it's putting you through
I'm also realistic enough to know our current healthcare could all be taken away.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

In the end it'll be "hmmm... buy groceries or pay for health care insurance??" Wonder which will win.

Later! OL J R


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## CowboyRam (Dec 13, 2015)

luke strawwalker said:


> In the end it'll be "hmmm... buy groceries or pay for health care insurance??" Wonder which will win.
> 
> Later! OL J R


My sister has already done that. She made $10 too much to qualify for assistance. So for her it was buy health insurance or buy food.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

The common misconception being here that it was intended to actually fix a problem, government rarely fixes problems thru their intervention and usually causes more immediate problems or unforeseen ones that can be blamed on the next administration. Housing bubble anyone?

Anyways, Obamacare is doing exactly what it was intended to do for now, a massive redistribution of wealth.

Once prices get so high that nobody can afford and goes without, then the collapse will come that much faster, and the sheep in their ultimate wisdom will cry out to their government overlords to fix it and save us. This is when we all will be put on some sort of single payer/medicare/VA type system, no better way to maintain complete control of your citizenry like having your thumb on they're, their spouses and children's healthcare and subliminally deciding who lives and who dies.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> I really feel for you guys with this Obamacare bullshit.
> I'm very fortunate to be married to a teacher and we get excellent healthcare for our whole family.
> I read this stuff you fellas go through and I'm amazed at the stupidity of the affordable care act and saddened with the financial stress it's putting you through
> I'm also realistic enough to know our current healthcare could all be taken away.


JD, get prepared for a possible education, 2018 (after the elections and he is out of office) the 'luxury tax' happens. There is going to be a lot of UAW workers, teachers, etc. that have what most of us would consider excellent coverage (Cadillac plans), that will be subject to the new 'luxury tax'. This tax can be as high as 40% of the excess premium (I have been told), for the Cadillac plans.

It works something like this, any premium amount paid over $10,200 (single) or $27,500 (family), will be taxed at 40%. So if the company/school is paying say $32,500 for a family coverage for an employee, they will have a $2,000 tax bill due to the fed for 2018, for each employee. Or employer will reduce the coverage, to reduce the cost.

In my area, if there is a 40% tax on the excess premium with a school teacher, where do you think the school system will get this extra money from? At least in my area the schools don't usually run with a huge annual operating surplus.

Here is a piece on the 'luxury tax'

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-cadillac-tax-excise-tax-on-high-end-plans/

Then for everyone else there is the 'shared responsibility' part. This is where you had to pay 1% of your income in 2014, 2% in 2015 and 2.5% in 2016, per person in household, towards your premium. This amount is going to continue to increase (see below site), for a lot of people, unless someone does something with Obamacare. After 2016, the expected contribution will increase by what ever the inflation rate is (see second site below).

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-mandate-exemption-penalty/

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-individual-mandate/

Enough sh**ty stuff for today. :angry: :angry: Most American's don't know this stuff. :angry:

Larry


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Larry,

I know what you mean. Our "day of reckoning" is coming soon.

I really hope Trumps plan will ease the costs back.....waaaay back.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Yep talk about percentages on our current policy my wife and I are 58 years old. If our income is below $67,534 we get assistance with premium. If it is one penny above that we get no assistance. And then our premium would be $24000 per year. Due to the deductible the first $7,100 of any medical expenses we would pay out of our pocket no questions asked. Once we met the deductible we pay only 30% of all procedures until we get to $14,200.. the farm we operate also pays for my sons health insurance similar setting. 6 years out of 10 we're not going to qualify for any assistance. The Affordable Healthcare Act law is ruining us.


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## PaMike (Dec 7, 2013)

So you could make $67,535 and have to pay $24k a year for insurance??? That's insane...

How does your plan differ under Obamacare compared to your old plan? You already have a high deductible plan under ObamaCare so why is the premium so high? Because you are paying for all those that are subsidized?

What is the root issue under Obamcare that is driving these prices skyhigh?


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

PaMike said:


> What is the root issue under Obamcare that is driving these prices skyhigh?


For starters, ALL policies have to cover you for addiction treatment and pregnancy (even if you are 58!!). Then there is the part about all hospitals / insurance companies will have a profit (now you know why some in the health field like OCare).

A lot of insurance companies under estimated there 'costs' in the beginning, so they can raise there rates (premiums) now.

Here in Michigan our Blue Cross / Blue Shield (BC-BS)company use to be allowed to operate as an non-profit (non tax paying), but they had to insure everyone (not always making a profit). Now they are a profit company and are REAL happy with OCare.

I have my insurance through BC-BS, premiums on a PPO plan (family) were $594 a month with $5K deductible, 80/20 co-pay (before OCare). This year premiums $1,194 (going North of $1,400 next year), with a 60/40 co-pay and deductible somewhere in the $14K neighborhood. But if the grandma that sleeps in the same bed I do, gets pregnant it will be covered, along with my new addiction from the morning sickness I would have to put up with.

As Endrow points out there is a vast problem IF your income varies year to year above and below certain numbers. Farming at it's best, you get to estimate your production, your cost to produce and your selling price, then have the 'opportunity' to pay a fine for being wrong with your estimated net profit.

I am glad I don't milk cows (let see, I will get 89.5# of milk per cow, at $15 per hundred, with a profit of x. What do you mean, milk price just dropped to $13,50 hwd?). At least with hay I can control which year I sell it for tax purposes, pretty had to hold on to milk.

Larry


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

We are now paying approx 32k a year for coverage, if we don't get real sick......if we do that price goes up substantially, given the deductable and co-pay....isn't that what we have insurance for? Maybe I'm just confused.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Some of you guys might want to look into healthshare programs such as libertyhealthshare. I did, but I just don't entirely trust them. Mostly because of the huge medical bills we have had over the last 6 years with my cancer and a new baby that had to spend 10 days in the hospital after birth. I know people that use these healthshare programs and they have treated them ok, but none of those people have had any major health problems that cost hundreds of thousands.

As for our family we our actual premium for our family went down from $1265 with Humana to $1090 with Anthem (Humana cancelled all family/individual plans in Colorado). But our total family deductable went from $8500 to $14,300. And it is now a HMO. There is the nicety nice crap about 30% out of pocket after deductible until you reach your max. But heck any sickness or thing you need that you reach your deductible you are most likely going to meet your out of pocket at the same time. So last year between my yearly CT scan (last year was the last for that I hope) and my wife's galbladder surgery we paid out nearly $24,000. Hopin for no health things this year, but if more then one of us does we will get the joy of paying up to $27k before really anything is covered. And now we have to waste time getting referrals to specialists thanks to the stupid HMO. I have to get a referral to my oncologist that I've been seeing for 6 years.

We are 41 now and if this keeps up I fear what it will cost when we are 55. Something just has to change.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> We are now paying approx 32k a year for coverage, if we don't get real sick......if we do that price goes up substantially, given the deductable and co-pay....isn't that what we have insurance for? Maybe I'm just confused.....


I complain also about how high it is, but then remember a couple years where our insurance covered bills of close to $200,000. So then I suck it up and pay the insurance. But still complain. It's the fear of those high bills that can ruin a person that keeps me paying. So I'll just take the slow ruin instead of gambling on a fast ruin.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

quote name="PaMike" post="570321" timestamp="1480615744"]S,j5o you could make $67,535 and have to pay $24k a year for insurance??? That's insane.. Yes ,PA Mike that is insane . And then if you do go to the hospital you gotta pay the deductible first anyway . So the year of your big surgery between the premium and the maximum out-of-pocket cost it would take 50% of your income ,yes insane.........


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

What makes me better than anything else. We farm with our son and we are just starting the transition process he is married and has three children and a wife. They work 7 days a week 365 days a year more hours in a day that I care to share. Corsi Obamacare is to hi for them so they apply for assistance by way of their income


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Insane/immoral/ridiculous/asinine/pathetic and many more adjectives.....


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

AND what asistance they get is Free CHIP insurance for the kids. But if they wanted my daughter-in-law has to go in there to the welfare and stand in line for hours with the normal crowd to sign up for CHIP. Makes me mad as hell. My Dad says when hard-working people like that have to go stand in the welfare line he bets that makes Obama smile from ear to ear.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You bet it does.....


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

endrow said:


> AND what asistance they get is Free CHIP insurance for the kids. But if they wanted my daughter-in-law has to go in there to the welfare and stand in line for hours with the normal crowd to sign up for CHIP. Makes me mad as hell. My Dad says when hard-working people like that have to go stand in the welfare line he bets that makes Obama smile from ear to ear.


i filled out a whole thing on the Colorado market place to see if we could get premium assistance. No we couldn't because we earn to much but for some reason they say our youngest son could get Medicaid? Why him I have no idea. My wife was joking that she could go to the local health center and say she has no social security number no insurance and no money and get it all for free.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

During my mothers lifetime, she's 89, she has never been on any type of "program" of any kind.....we always have made do with what we have. Ditto for grandparents, always "enuf" to go around even if we didn't have much of anything....tithing was always first.
My mother is having some difficulties with dementia, very tough.....but we went to see about some visiting nurses program....the VERY FIRST question they asked "is your mother on Medicaid" . What the hell? No, she isn't on Medicaid, she's on Medicare and has a blue cross blue shield supplemental policy...... "I'm sorry sir, if she was on Medicaid we could help you out". You've got to be kiddin......so work for 35 yrs have what you think is coverage only to find out the democrat down the road that never worked and has been on public assistance his/her entire life.....is covered. Insert adjective......


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Obama achieves several objectives. He redistributes wealth, shames and steals wealth from the working man and puts a stick in the eye of republicans.
you guys that have to suffer with this truly have my sympathy. That's just wrong.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I hope those of you with high deductible plans (like I have), are using the HSA (Health Savings Account) option. Last year with my wife's two knee replacements, we quickly met our deductible ($12K and change if I remember correctly). Our HSA account when down like a corn field in a hail storm, but at least the deductible was a 100% income tax deduction and not subject to the 2% floor. You have to pay in either case, the HSA can cut your tax bill a little (it's not always what you make, sometimes it's what you can keep, is one of my thoughts).

Larry

PS I am not a fan of HMO's for exactly Teslan's reason.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

It does matter if the state you reside in had any exchanges prior to or because of O.C. When I was a single fella I didn't qualify for the 4-5 options NY had. I paid through the nose until I couldn't afford insurance then went without for years. When I got married I looked into getting insured through my company. My premium was to be more than I made! A couple kids later I qualify for family coverage that is reasonable in cost and while premiums and deductible are going up its a sight better than what my company offers. The difference may be these providers and plans were in place prior to the implementation of O.C.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

hillside hay said:


> It does matter if the state you reside in had any exchanges prior to or because of O.C. When I was a single fella I didn't qualify for the 4-5 options NY had. I paid through the nose until I couldn't afford insurance then went without for years. When I got married I looked into getting insured through my company. My premium was to be more than I made! A couple kids later I qualify for family coverage that is reasonable in cost and while premiums and deductible are going up its a sight better than what my company offers. The difference may be these providers and plans were in place prior to the implementation of O.C.


What plan do you have that is reasonable in cost? I'm thinkin I may look into medishare or similar.....not sure how it works but this is a unworkable situation.....out of control.


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## hillside hay (Feb 4, 2013)

My wife found it buried deep in the state exchange. We pay 430 or so. It's a plan from Blue Cross/Shield. Co pays are 15 for reg checkups 200 for emergency room prescription drugs are 5 for most generic and 20 for name brand. Deductible is 4500 total out of pocket is 9000. We looked into medishare as well and this fit a bit better for us as this was one of the only plans that was portable across state lines . Necessary for my job but unavailable through my company's plan. Go figure. I like the HSA with catastrophic backup but that isn't an option yet. Someday it may be allowed.


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## luke strawwalker (Jul 31, 2014)

PaMike said:


> So you could make $67,535 and have to pay $24k a year for insurance??? That's insane...
> 
> How does your plan differ under Obamacare compared to your old plan? You already have a high deductible plan under ObamaCare so why is the premium so high? Because you are paying for all those that are subsidized?
> 
> What is the root issue under Obamcare that is driving these prices skyhigh?


Mandatory *anything* is GOING to be sky high, because there is NO market pressure to keep prices inline. We saw the SAME thing here in Texas when they decided to make car insurance "mandatory". Car liability insurance was pretty cheap, and comprehensive (full) coverage wasn't much higher, so MOST folks carried comprehensive on their car, unless they were working hand-to-mouth and didn't have ANY spare money for the extra coverage, and drove disposable old "beater" cars anyway and just replaced them if they wrecked them out.

But alas, the gubmint decides to "save" us (the insurance companies is who they were actually saving, since they were getting stuck with fixing angry customer's cars due to a handful of "uninsured motorists" who were mostly illegals and low-life ghetto types anyway) by instituting "mandatory" auto insurance and requiring one provide "proof of insurance" to basically do ANYTHING gubmint-related... (you have to present your papers like Soviet Russia to do anything, or if you're stopped by a cop). Insurance prices went through the roof within a year and have stayed there ever since.

Of course we have more "uninsured motorists" than we EVER had before, because the higher prices simply lock a lot of poorer people out of being able to afford to have insurance. BUT the insurance companies are raking in a TON of money, so they don't care... it more than covers their costs of indemnifying damages caused by uninsured motorists...

I ***KNEW*** that this would happen the INSTANT they started talking about MANDATORY insurance under Nobamacare... Whenever you "short circuit" the market (eliminate supply/demand from the equation) you remove ANY incentive whatsoever to keep costs/coverage competitive or affordable, and you INTENTIONALLY CREATE a train wreck. That's exactly where we're headed right now. They're CREATING the very "crisis" they need to take over the entire system and turn into socialized medicine.

We ALREADY HAVE a system to cover "disadvantaged" people called "Medicaid". If it wasn't providing the necessary coverage and there were too many "holes" people were falling through and not getting coverage, THAT was the problem that needed addressing. No, the goal here was to penalize successful people with good insurance, to "redistribute the wealth" and penalize them for having something "better" than the average Obama voter, and deny them the fruits of their labor, and in so doing create a crisis that the gubmint can then manipulate to gain further control over the system.

Want a look at "socialized medicine"?? Look at the VA system... they've been doing a STELLAR job of taking care of everybody under their charge, haven't they?? How about the typical Russian hospital in the Soviet Union era-- a lot of them didn't even have HOT WATER! And of course there's always the prototypical stories of folks coming to the US from Canada, Europe, the Middle East, and elsewhere to get health care here in the US because they'd be dead before they got what they needed in their own "enlightened", "socialized" health care system in their own countries...

I couldn't afford to go to the doctor even if I really needed to... Can't afford the deductibles... they'd simply wipe us out. SO I guess if anything happens I'll just sit home and wait to die... and we supposedly have "good coverage" because my wife is a teacher....

All this has been tried before... In the Soviet Union. They went broke and collapsed, and we somehow believe we're immune to reality and it won't happen here...

Later! OL J R : )


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