# Monsanto facing a problem.



## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/midwestern-farmers-wage-war-against-superweeds/article_e84e6049-ac33-562a-aa54-e9a564af8e6b.html

Could it be that Roundup's day are numbered?

Ralph


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice read Ralph .....


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

Round-up is still a viable tool, but it is not the one shot cure all anymore. We still run all RR corn and beans but our burn down mixes now have 2,4-d, dicamba, and several other chemistries or "cocktails" that provide residual in the crop. We simply use the RR part of the crop to go back in and clean up nuisance grasses like fall panicum and foxtail. Round-up's biggest downfall came from farmers not only being lazy, but also skimping on the dollars. They took an already cheap product and then trying to apply it at half rate and thus the first resistant weeds are born.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Crop farming is about to become even more expensive.

Regards, Mike


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## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

haybaler101 said:


> Round-up's biggest downfall came from farmers not only being lazy, but also skimping on the dollars. They took an already cheap product and then trying to apply it at half rate and thus the first resistant weeds are born.


That might be what Monsanto says but that's not necessarily how resistance builds up in a population. There will always be some (weeds or insects) not killed by the application rate and they reproduce and become the remaining population. Monsanto scientists knew this all along regardless of where they want to lay blame.

Also - the water hemp in the story is susceptible to a newer class of herbicide, pyroxasulfones (Zidua)


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Draft Horse Hay said:


> That might be what Monsanto says but that's not necessarily how resistance builds up in a population. There will always be some (weeds or insects) not killed by the application rate and they reproduce and become the remaining population. Monsanto scientists knew this all along regardless of where they want to lay blame.
> 
> Also - the water hemp in the story is susceptible to a newer class of herbicide, pyroxasulfones (Zidua)


Both you guys are correct about resistance. Plus a few other reasons.


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

Yup eventually resistance will develop at any application rate. I'm fairly certain weeding robots and competition in weeding algorithms from different companies are going to dominate in about 20 years.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

They already have things like the weed seaker. Once we can just spray the weeds where a much higher rate can be applied the weeds will take longer to become resistance. Or can go the way of a drone that will pick the weeds.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hog987 said:


> They already have things like the weed seaker. Once we can just spray the weeds where a much higher rate can be applied the weeds will take longer to become resistance. Or can go the way of a drone that will pick the weeds.


Or people could quit trying to save a little by trying to get away with a lower rate and only partially killing the weeds in the first place. Or they could quit using only a single chemical in their burndown programs.

We commonly switch chemicals in our burndown program and use a combination of ones that have different modes of action. Still use Moxy once in awhile in corn instead of relying on roundup for everything.

Don't have any RR resistant weeds on any of our fields yet, when we do I'm sure they'll come from a neighbors.


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## endrow (Dec 15, 2011)

haybaler101 said:


> Round-up is still a viable tool, but it is not the one shot cure all anymore. We still run all RR corn and beans but our burn down mixes now have 2,4-d, dicamba, and several other chemistries or "cocktails" that provide residual in the crop. We simply use the RR part of the crop to go back in and clean up nuisance grasses like fall panicum and foxtail. Round-up's biggest downfall came from farmers not only being lazy, but also skimping on the dollars. They took an already cheap product and then trying to apply it at half rate and thus the first resistant weeds are born.


Well Said


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I also think that weeds like Palmer Amaranth are a little different....maybe "super" weeds by nature. I had some Palmer coming in to a field I did a burn down in the last of May to be planted in Milo. It had 2 pints of 2-4d in the mix along with 41% gly. The palmer is still not completely dead....used to be 2 pints would toast it...it is curled badly and barely hanging on....but this is how resisitance is built.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

Vol said:


> I also think that weeds like Palmer Amaranth are a little different....maybe "super" weeds by nature. I had some Palmer coming in to a field I did a burn down in the last of May to be planted in Milo. It had 2 pints of 2-4d in the mix along with 41% gly. The palmer is still not completely dead....used to be 2 pints would toast it...it is curled badly and barely hanging on....but this is how resisitance is built.
> 
> Regards, Mike


There are plenty of weeds around here that are "super" weeds and mostly resistant to Roundup. Thistles, morning glorys, goat head weeds, Kocha for the most part, and others. So I wonder if the anti RR crowd sometimes points out weeds and say they are super weeds, but are already naturally resistant and have spread due to improper or no land management. Also if you apply many herbicides at the wrong time in the plants growth they won't die. So does that make them a superweed also?


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

I think there may be some confusion - resistance is just evolution of the weed via natural selection. Every generation naturally has mutations in its genetics. If one of those mutations is tolerant of whatever application rate and chemical you are using and is allowed to mature and spread its genetics, then you have resistance.

If you mechanically remove or kill with alternative herbicide, before they reproduce, you will delay resistance but eventually one in a ditch or border etc is going to escape. It will happen, you can't stop it as we never 100% eliminated weeds at any point in history.


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## Teslan (Aug 20, 2011)

slowzuki said:


> I think there may be some confusion - resistance is just evolution of the weed via natural selection. Every generation naturally has mutations in its genetics. If one of those mutations is tolerant of whatever application rate and chemical you are using and is allowed to mature and spread its genetics, then you have resistance.
> 
> If you mechanically remove or kill with alternative herbicide, before they reproduce, you will delay resistance but eventually one in a ditch or border etc is going to escape. It will happen, you can't stop it as we never 100% eliminated weeds at any point in history.


Same reason why the darn weeds can seemingly grow with no water while the plants that we want can't. The weeds have developed a natural resistance to drought.


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## Draft Horse Hay (May 15, 2014)

One thing with weeds and insects both - we're always fighting last year's "fire" while the next one "smolders" just out of our view.

One term I like used in evolution to describe the luck of having the genetics to survive bad times (drought, chemicals etc) was "fortuitous preadaptation".


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