# Disc mowers and open cab tractors



## Walcar

I have seen some disc mower makers recommend a fully enclosed cab when using the mower. I assume it is to protect from flying debris. Is that the only reason and how much of a problem is it? I have an open tractor and am thinking I want a disc mower. The sickle always has a problem when I need it most!


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## deadmoose

From my LIMITED reading they sound like they do not mix. I have no experience with them but until convinced otherwise will not. If the toss rocks to break glass I do not want to take that in the noggen.


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## askinner

If you've ever seen a projectile come from a lawn mower, then that is the speed at which a disc mower throws em, as that is all they are! The chances of a projectile being picked up by it are just multiplied by the amount of discs it has.
I run the combination, and just the other day was hit just below the eye with something very small, but travelling at warp speed, lucky I had sunglasses on







If I had any rock at all, I would not even think about it.


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## Mike120

All my ground is sandy loam with no rocks and I still hear things bouncing off the cab when I mow. I don't know what they are, but I'm happy there's some glass between us.


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## urednecku

I'm running the Kuhn disc mower with an open-cab Kubota M7040. _So far_, no problems, but there's not any rocks _here._ And I make SURE the curtain is down, & it's in good shape. Yea, I wish I had a cab, but it wasn't practical at the time I got the tractor. At the time I had no plans of working hay with it. With a couple good years, it is on my wish list.


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## slowzuki

If you have no rocks, maybe? I'd keep your skirt in good shape, it stops a lot of it. My disc mower is a mounted one so the tire and right door take most of the flying crap. I'm guessing the pull type toss more stuff at the back window.


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## urednecku

slowzuki said:


> If you have no rocks, maybe? I'd keep your skirt in good shape, it stops a lot of it. My disc mower is a mounted one so the tire and right door take most of the flying crap. I'm guessing the pull type toss more stuff at the back window.


Yea, probably. Mine's the 3ph mount, too.


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## bluefarmer

Thats news to me! I cut hay for years with an outside tractor just make sure the tarp is good. I still hook it to the outside tractor every once in awhile


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## haybaler101

I run a NH H7450 13ft on my open 966 IH when the cab tractors are busy. I also have some rocks on coal mine ground. I have never seen anything fly anywhere close to the open tractor or the cab tractors. Then again, the center pivot moco's have a very long tongue and considerable distance from the tractor. Also have really good curtains and keep them down. The other secret is to drive fast and out run the debris!


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## RockmartGA

I run a 3pt disc mower with an open station tractor. As long as you are in the hay, no problems. The only time I have noticed debris is when you are cutting where there is very little grass or when you pick up the cutter.

As others have noted, keep the curtain in position and that eliminates almost all of it.


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## jturbo10

I have two cab tractors and 4 open tractors and haven't had any problems with a Kuhn 3pt disk mower but I have mostly sandy loam soil. We do have some ironite rocks around one of the end fields and I have seen some sparks and chips fly around the drapper curtain. Haven't had any rocks or debris hit the tractor or the windows. Did have the neighbor set his field on fire this summer with a disk mower but his field is rocky...that is why I won't custom cut his field as I have new equipment that I don't want dinged up. I don't have any problems with my open station tractors but I could understand how a stray rock or twig could get close to the tractor under the right circumstance.


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## mlappin

Besides the noise factor, I've had twice now where finding a ground hog hole in first cutting had something ping off the rear cab window. Using a NH1431 and running at 10.5mph.


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## swmnhay

*No way would i cut without a cab.I've broke about 4 back windows and 4 side windows.It has a curtain but the wind may have moved it or cutting along a fenceline it may have been riding up on it and curtain raised up a little.Pocket gophers and badgers push up a stone and its like hitting a golf ball off a Tee.It's the small stones that are flying not larger rocks.about 1" in size.*


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## urednecku

I can see where the trailed mowers (like the disc-bine) would throw more at ya. You are actually in front of the mower, where on the mounted mowers we are almost riding beside the cutters.

Just a thought.


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## swmnhay

urednecku said:


> I can see where the trailed mowers (like the disc-bine) would throw more at ya. You are actually in front of the mower, where on the mounted mowers we are almost riding beside the cutters.
> 
> Just a thought.


True.I've seen tractors with no paint left on the right rear rim from being blasted from a disc mower.


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## Richardin52

urednecku said:


> I can see where the trailed mowers (like the disc-bine) would throw more at ya. You are actually in front of the mower, where on the mounted mowers we are almost riding beside the cutters.
> 
> Just a thought.


I have run an open cab tractor with both Kuhn and N.H. 3 pt. hitch disc mowers for years. I changed to the N.H. because I have very rocky ground and if I hit something with the N.H. all I have to do is change the shock hub and five minutes later I'm mowing again. It also takes less HP than the Kuhn.

I have never had any problem at all with anything ever flying sideways and hitting the tractor while cutting hay. I agree if the discs are behind you it may be a diferent story but you do not have to worry about cutting hay with a 3 pt. disc mower as long as the curtain is in good shape.


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## hay rake

We have used a 10 foot mower behind fender tractors since the early 90s in maine in rocks and ledge with no problem. the most recent 10 footer is a nh 1411. this year we also started using a 16 foot nh 7460 mower. as i mowed this year i heard 3 huge bangs on the cab. no glass was broken and i could not find any digs in the paint but i know the tractor was hit hard. i looked in what i felt was the path of the projectile from the mower to the tractor and found nothing. my point being that the cab is a lot bigger than i am so maybe the cab stops things that would miss me. or maybe the 16 foot mower throws more things. i know that what ever hit the cab would not of hit me because there is no damage on a line from me to the mower. so for myself i would still mow with a fender tractor.


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## Whistling Dixie

First I've heard of this topic, interesting. Down here the grass is tall and I would guess 50% of operators use open station tractors for cutting, myself included. I run a 9' Kuhn and have never been hit, I do keep the curtain down and run in fairly thick grass, we also don't have rocks. Either way an interesting topic and something to think about.


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## 7930JD

There is a new safety product out there called Tractor Guard that address this issue. Here is a link www.tractorguard.com


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## mlappin

hay rake said:


> We have used a 10 foot mower behind fender tractors since the early 90s in maine in rocks and ledge with no problem. the most recent 10 footer is a nh 1411. this year we also started using a 16 foot nh 7460 mower. as i mowed this year i heard 3 huge bangs on the cab. no glass was broken and i could not find any digs in the paint but i know the tractor was hit hard. i looked in what i felt was the path of the projectile from the mower to the tractor and found nothing. my point being that the cab is a lot bigger than i am so maybe the cab stops things that would miss me. or maybe the 16 foot mower throws more things. i know that what ever hit the cab would not of hit me because there is no damage on a line from me to the mower. so for myself i would still mow with a fender tractor.


I have two chips in the rear glass window of my mowing tractor, one would have been the back of my head, the other would have been my elbow/funny bone, mow without a cab if you want. Personally I like to keep my hearing and don't want to take a chance of a third projectile coming at me with out something between me and it.


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## haybaler101

Well I definitely prefer the cab for safety and hearing reasons as well as comfort. I mowed Friday and the temp was about 45 deg and off and on sprinkles and misting rain. I just cranked up the heat and enjoyed while mowing with a t-shirt on.


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## Canderson012

I cut with an open cab Deere and Kuhn disc mower. I've even cut a few pecan orchards with it and it would fling up a few sticks here and there but nothing ever hit me. You'll be fine running an open cab. If you'd like, you can do what the municipal roadside mowers do, put expanded metal behind the ROPS bars.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> Well I definitely prefer the cab for safety and hearing reasons as well as comfort. I mowed Friday and the temp was about 45 deg and off and on sprinkles and misting rain. I just cranked up the heat and enjoyed while mowing with a t-shirt on.


I've mowed with the heat on a few times, more often than not it's with the A/C set to polar. Radio is nice as well.


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## NDVA HAYMAN

I have had several rear glasses broken from baling and not cutting. Both were from the baler pickup going over a gopher mound and kicking a rock or something into the glass. I have also had something hit my cab glass twice in the last 3 years but it did not break. I will not cut with a discbine without a cab. Marty made a very good point about hearing loss also. My kids are always telling me to "Turn it up" when I don't understand what they are saying.


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## urednecku

I use ear plugs when I'm mowing, helps a lot.
While mowing yesterday I was thinking about this thread, so I took a shot of what I saw when I looked over at the mower. 1st of all, the curtain is in good shape, & with clear ground only clears about 3 or 4 inches. With the curtain up, I have to lean over to see more than the outside 2 blades over the tire/fender.


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## dwarner

Cabs are nice but not a must, many people with hearing protection using open stations here. Used to mow township road tops with open station-had a 2 sided plexiglass shield with a piece of old curtain hanging below-worked pretty good. As others say in a cab you can break glass. When I went to a cab tractor i had a side screen that extended 1' past back of sound-gard cab, still broke rear window once, I have a screen for back window now too as well as a plywood "hubcap" for the right wheel. This was all with my 3pt mower, never used screens or had trouble with pull type moco, but don't cut in rocky condtions with that either. Old school steel window screens work real good and would work on an open cab too. And they were cheap!


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## kyfred

I know of two guys that got hit from broken blades that was thrown at the operator. One guy lost an eye and the other was mowing without the curtain on his disc mower and his son found him and he was covered in blood where he had been hit in the face with something. He had fallen off the tractor when he got hit, luckly the tractor didn't loop around and run over him they found his tractor in wrecked in the creek. When he was taken to the hospital. Xray showed a piece of the disc mower blade was lodged in his brain after it hit him in his face and went in. He died a couple of days later. 
Both guys were running open station tractors. The guy that lost an eye has a real thick piece of plexiglass mounted on the fender of the tractor he mows with now.


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## somedevildawg

kyfred said:


> I know of two guys that got hit from broken blades that was thrown at the operator. One guy lost an eye and the other was mowing without the curtain on his disc mower and his son found him and he was covered in blood where he had been hit in the face with something. He had fallen off the tractor when he got hit, luckly the tractor didn't loop around and run over him they found his tractor in wrecked in the creek. When he was taken to the hospital. Xray showed a piece of the disc mower blade was lodged in his brain after it hit him in his face and went in. He died a couple of days later.
> Both guys were running open station tractors. The guy that lost an eye has a real thick piece of plexiglass mounted on the fender of the tractor he mows with now.


Wow....guess it woulda saved money and prolonged the agony if it had run over him....I definitely ain't gonna cut with open cab, like a grenade going off, damn it jim! I wonder what they hit to shear those blades, metal or just rocks......like I said before, glad we don't have lots of rocks down here....not many gophers in these parts except the turtle variety and they don't generally take up refuge in a field.


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## shortrow

Reading this makes me glad I still run a haybine.


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## askinner

kyfred said:


> I know of two guys that got hit from broken blades that was thrown at the operator. One guy lost an eye and the other was mowing without the curtain on his disc mower and his son found him and he was covered in blood where he had been hit in the face with something. He had fallen off the tractor when he got hit, luckly the tractor didn't loop around and run over him they found his tractor in wrecked in the creek. When he was taken to the hospital. Xray showed a piece of the disc mower blade was lodged in his brain after it hit him in his face and went in. He died a couple of days later.
> Both guys were running open station tractors. The guy that lost an eye has a real thick piece of plexiglass mounted on the fender of the tractor he mows with now.


Food for thought







I have just come in from rolling some hay with my open cab tractor, very dry here at the moment, and very dusty, even just the effect of the dust on me makes me wonder why I'm not enjoying the comfort of a radio and air conditioner!?? Sure it all comes back to $$, but what value is $$ without health, or a life in the above case??....


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## Vol

Cab tractors are a lifestyle changer.....I remember when I bought my first Cab tractor many years ago....my neighbors said I wasn't a real farmer because I use one those "scab" tractors...I remind them of that on a regular basis....of course they all have them now except my next door neighbor...he's just too tight to ever have one







.

Regards, Mike


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## haybaler101

We never owned a cab tractor until I was 33 years old. I started working dirt when I was 8. I now have 3 tractors with really good cabs and try to use them exclusively for field work. I have spent many, many hours sucking dust and listening to a 1066 scream thru a straight pipe. Now at 40, my ears ring and I have this nice condition known as asthma, not to mention many years of being burnt crispy in sun. I used to think that I was tough enough to run a 16 hour day in the heat, noise, and dust. Now I am glad I finally matured to know that a cab with heat and a/c, nice stereo, air-ride seat, and on one of my tractors, auto-steer doesn't make me a wus, just makes me comfortable and will keep me farming for many more years.


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## urednecku

At the time I purchased my open-cab, I didn't feel the glass would have been a good option _for what it was mainly purchased for._ I was working an old orange grove, with lots of old, big stubs sticking out waiting to bust a window. Now the grove is gone, & I use it mostly for hay, but there are still plenty of limbs around waiting on me. When finances allow, I'll probably look serious @ a cab. Seems the summers are getting hotter, and the winters colder.


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## mlappin

haybaler101 said:


> We never owned a cab tractor until I was 33 years old. I started working dirt when I was 8. I now have 3 tractors with really good cabs and try to use them exclusively for field work. I have spent many, many hours sucking dust and listening to a 1066 scream thru a straight pipe. Now at 40, my ears ring and I have this nice condition known as asthma, not to mention many years of being burnt crispy in sun. I used to think that I was tough enough to run a 16 hour day in the heat, noise, and dust. Now I am glad I finally matured to know that a cab with heat and a/c, nice stereo, air-ride seat, and on one of my tractors, auto-steer doesn't make me a wus, just makes me comfortable and will keep me farming for many more years.


Exactly^^^. You'd be surprised how much more alert you can be at the end of the day with a good cab. Quieter, cooler (or warmer) and much cleaner than sitting out on an open station tractor all day. Being more alert equals less operator error which almost always results in less repairs and increased productivity.


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## hayward

I've been putting up hay several years now riding open station 5410 jd, right rim has not much paint left on it from things flying out of mower. Been hit with a few small things a few times. I wear safety glasses an hearing protection, just wanted to say to anybody new at cutting hay, don't lean over an watch mower while cutting it'll get you for sure. If its a 3pt mower just keep yourself leaned to left away from it


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## urednecku

I rode my 1st cab tractor last week, rolling fresh-planted feed plot for my Uncle. Yes, it'll spoil ya. I could have gotten one when I got my M7040, but at the time it was not feasible _for what it was bought for_. I figured I would have kept the windows knocked out, more stuff to tear up/keep up (A/C), not to mention the extra cost to start with .
And at the same time, I still say with some of the older equipment being used, I'll hear something about to tear up (like a bearing squealing) in time to save a much larger repair bill.
Just some of the trade-off between comfort and expenses.


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## JD3430

urednecku said:


> I rode my 1st cab tractor last week, rolling fresh-planted feed plot for my Uncle. Yes, it'll spoil ya. I could have gotten one when I got my M7040, but at the time it was not feasible _for what it was bought for_. I figured I would have kept the windows knocked out, more stuff to tear up/keep up (A/C), not to mention the extra cost to start with .
> And at the same time, I still say with some of the older equipment being used, I'll hear something about to tear up (like a bearing squealing) in time to save a much larger repair bill.
> Just some of the trade-off between comfort and expenses.


Yeah but a cab tractor might keep YOU from getting torn up.








They're MUCH safer and healthier to operate


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## bluefarmer

(Mowing without a curtain) guys that was the problem. If you got the mower in grass it won't throw anything forward it will go out the back


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## urednecku

bluefarmer said:


> (Mowing without a curtain) guys that was the problem. If you got the mower in grass it won't throw anything forward it will go out the back


It would have to be some pretty thick grass to stop some of the things that I've seen fly out. I think it was the 2nd disc from the tractor that hit a metal leaver of some sort, shot it out the right side & landed about 40 feet away.
Believe me, I plan to keep the curtain in good shape. Watching it & looking at the back side tells me the kida stuff it stops.


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## gradyjohn

Walcar said:


> I have seen some disc mower makers recommend a fully enclosed cab when using the mower. I assume it is to protect from flying debris. Is that the only reason and how much of a problem is it? I have an open tractor and am thinking I want a disc mower. The sickle always has a problem when I need it most!


Your assumption is correct.


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## mncattle

bluefarmer said:


> (Mowing without a curtain) guys that was the problem. If you got the mower in grass it won't throw anything forward it will go out the back


This is not true. Have had many rocks thrown forward on my discmower conditioner with its curtain is great shape when mowing heavy first crop hay. If you have rocks the mower is going to throw them at some point. I have replaced a few windows on my mower tractor because of rocks being thrown by the mower. The smaller the rock the further they seem to get thrown. I would not mow without a cab tractor the thought of those rocks hitting me in the back of the head gets my attention.


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## swmnhay

Same here.I think I've replaced 5 windows from rocks coming ahead.


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## hog987

I dont have a cab on my tractor but when I got my discbine the first thing I did was build a sheild. Its an expanded metal sheild than hangs on the rops. Works good and has been hit a few times. Anything small enough to make it through the expanded metal is really not big enough to hurt me and anything bigger will be stopped. But it might scare you half to death when you hear something hit the sheild. Sounds like someone hits it with a hammer.


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## Farmall1956

I used an open tractor for years with a JD 275 disc mower and never had a problem. I make sure the cover is in good order. I now use a cab tractor only because I have one now, not because with problems with debris.


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## johndeerefarmer

If I ran an open tractor I would make me a screen that covered the back from one side of the drawbar to the other and also rig some kind of guard on the right hand side. I typically hear rocks and sticks bouncing off of the right side tire or window of my cab tractor.


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## foz682

We run cab tractors, but I don't think I'd hesitate mowing with an open cab tractor for fear of debris, but more likely in fear of hitting a wasp or hornets nest in the grass. I hit a few nests every year and when I do I'm sure glad I'm inside.

I can't say I ever heard or seen anything being thrown forward or toward the tractor from our mower, and we have a flood meadow that usually has lots of rocks and debris that I missed picking up in the spring, I hear things banging around in there at times but I'd say the curtain stops it all. I imagine the design of the mower also plays a big role in which directions the rocks will fly.

I've actually had more rocks and debris thrown at me from our round baler when pick-ups hit a bump in the field at the same time the wheels drop in a hole.


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## luke strawwalker

kyfred said:


> I know of two guys that got hit from broken blades that was thrown at the operator. One guy lost an eye and the other was mowing without the curtain on his disc mower and his son found him and he was covered in blood where he had been hit in the face with something. He had fallen off the tractor when he got hit, luckly the tractor didn't loop around and run over him they found his tractor in wrecked in the creek. When he was taken to the hospital. Xray showed a piece of the disc mower blade was lodged in his brain after it hit him in his face and went in. He died a couple of days later.
> Both guys were running open station tractors. The guy that lost an eye has a real thick piece of plexiglass mounted on the fender of the tractor he mows with now.


If a blade comes apart or slings off at full speed aimed directly at you, does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that a sheet of cab glass is going to save them?? A blade or piece of steel will go through cab glass like a hot knife through butter. It might slow it down a little bit, but still-- some of this is just a person's number being up.

Expanded metal "shields" are really the only thing that MIGHT have saved these guys from these incidents... Even then, if the blade is traveling fast enough and just right, it's quite possible it could pop straight through if it hit just right and still get someone.

I used to cut 10 miles of road hay twice a year from the mid-80's until about the late 90's/early 2000's... crossed driveways, hit gravel and sent it flying, I could hear glass bottles shatter under the cutter and hit the underside of the steel top (Zweegers drum mowers use a sheet metal "top" with the curtain around the edge hanging down instead of a curtain over a frame for the top and sides like most disk mowers). One time I heard a terrific metallic buzzing and looked back to see a big honkin' Cadillac land barge hubcap that had been fairly neatly bisected by the mower as it passed between the drums, laying on top of the windrow. In all that, and more, I've never been hit with anything more than disintegrated clods of dirt from anthills (sometimes with some fire ants along for the ride) but that's about it. Maybe it's luck, maybe not... I dunno.

It'd be nice to have a tractor with a cab, but we don't, so ya "dance with the one that brung ya" so to speak...

If I had a lot of rocks, I don't think I'd want a disk mower anyway... probably do better with a sickle machine. Fortunately we don't have ANY rocks (other than driveways crossed while mowing road hay or an old gravel oilfield road that crosses one of my meadows...)

Later! OL JR


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## IH 1586

Had a rock hit the window on my cab when I lifted the mower to clear woodchuck hole. You could see the dust where the rock shattered against the window. Glass held, no chips. The spot where it hit would have been the base of my neck.


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## hog987

This last summer I took out 3 windows on my cab from rock hitting them. I think they should make the geometry of the mower so that the angle of a flying object will never hit that high on a tractor. Till than my expanded metal cage will have to do.


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## PaCustomBaler

No way would I ever operate a discbine without a cab. If I didn't go deaf from the constant whine noise for 8 hours or getting eaten alive by horseflies, I've would be killed by rocks flying out of it. 

Friend of mine was mowing with a similar discbine and sent a broken knife through the front pick-up truck window (he was mowing going away from the pickup). However, this was the same fellow who sent a calf through his discbine :huh:


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## 7930JD

Tractor Guard window protection system is the answer to this problem. www.tractorguard.com

their phone number is 512-837-4264 They work great and take just a few minutes to install.


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## Tim/South

7930JD said:


> Tractor Guard window protection system is the answer to this problem. www.tractorguard.com
> 
> their phone number is 512-837-4264 They work great and take just a few minutes to install.


Do you have a ball park figure on how much these cost?


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## G&GFarms

Well this is one of my favorite topics on this site so far! I know dad used to cut up at our friends dairy farm with a fender 806 and 13ft NH. He said nothing ever hit him but he would have died if it did. id suggest a cab. but thats me.


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## JimBob1907

I don't know much about disk mowers personally, but I do know that my 84" finish mower can throw some nasty debris, even forward toward me! Usually it's lightweight like dry wood, but it can thump you good and it is surprising sometimes! Aside from that, I have seen those same warnings on the web and always wondered some. I would personally always use a cab. Just my $0.02.


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## sethd11

Ive been cutting hay with a discbine for six years with an open station 1466 or 966. Haven't been hit or worried about it. I guess when it happens I'll never know... covered a lot of ground with rocks too...


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## rankrank1

Only way I would run a disc mower or a discbine on an open station tractor is to fabricate me a protective shield for the rear and right side operator areas of the tractor. I would use 3/8" to 1/2" thick Lexan grade (or better and thicker). Thin, cheap, brittle plexi stuff would not be worth the effort.

Lots of people ride motorcycles without helmets too. You actually do not need the helmet until you wreck. Same with the protective shield or a cab. They are not needed until that mower just happens to catch a rock or flips a blade just right at yah.

If you feel one of your eyes, your spinal cord, your brain, or even your life is worth less than $150 bucks then certainly skip making you a decent protective shield. How lucky do you feel is the question? I could easily make me a decent and removable protective shield for less than $150. I value any part of my body more than the $150

I still use a sickle based cutter and conditioner on my piddle patch. One of the advantges to my old mower is I do not have to worry about this problem with it.


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## somedevildawg

Just stitches will set ya back a couple o grand nowadays.........unbelievable what they charge, that's why I let my vet stitch me up, only he may not be available at all times


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## hog987

somedevildawg said:


> Just stitches will set ya back a couple o grand nowadays.........unbelievable what they charge, that's why I let my vet stitch me up, only he may not be available at all times


Funny you should mention that. If you have tp pay for health care a vet is about 1/10 of the price or less. Doesnt make sense cause they have building to pay for. Staff to hire. Surgery equipment to pay for. They are running a kind of hospital. But they make money doing what they do.

Oh a little iodine and super glue is even cheaper than a vet.


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## somedevildawg

I've been using mine for quite a while now (25+ yrs) he's given me a good many stitches....quick, easy, and cheap.....purty good too, hardly leaves a scar. And I have excellent healthcare, but it has a $5k deductible, used to be 2k.....had to up it with the new O care regulations


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## RockmartGA

hog987 said:


> If you have tp pay for health care a vet is about 1/10 of the price [of medical doctor] or less. Doesnt make sense cause they [vet] have building to pay for. Staff to hire. Surgery equipment to pay for. They are running a kind of hospital. But they make money doing what they do.


A few differences:

Vet: 4 yr undergrad, 4 yr vet. Students may also enter vet program prior to completing undergrad program. May be able to complete program in as little as 7 yrs.

Dr: 4 yr undergrad, 4 yr medical school, 4 yrs residency. You're in your 30s before you start making "real money". Many doctors enter the profession with hundreds of thousands in student loans.

..............................

Medical malpractice: I've seen articles that tell where doctors in risky fields (surgeons, cardiologists, ob/gyn) have malpractice insurance premiums of $200,000 per year and more.

..............................

The market drives veterinarian pricing. If the vet tells us that he can heal Fido, but it is going to cost $25,000 for the operation - bad news for Fido, we tell the vet to "Put him to sleep".

Can't really do that with Grandma.....


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## luke strawwalker

RockmartGA said:


> A few differences:
> 
> Vet: 4 yr undergrad, 4 yr vet. Students may also enter vet program prior to completing undergrad program. May be able to complete program in as little as 7 yrs.
> 
> Dr: 4 yr undergrad, 4 yr medical school, 4 yrs residency. You're in your 30s before you start making "real money". Many doctors enter the profession with hundreds of thousands in student loans.
> 
> ..............................
> 
> Medical malpractice: I've seen articles that tell where doctors in risky fields (surgeons, cardiologists, ob/gyn) have malpractice insurance premiums of $200,000 per year and more.
> 
> ..............................
> 
> The market drives veterinarian pricing. If the vet tells us that he can heal Fido, but it is going to cost $25,000 for the operation - bad news for Fido, we tell the vet to "Put him to sleep".
> 
> Can't really do that with Grandma.....


Oh, that's next (doing that with Grandma).

By the time she gets approval for health care, she'll be dead. Same for you and me...

What all this O-care crap is all about... insurance makes money, gubmint gets to regulate, everybody else does without and suffers and pays extra for the privilege...

So long as it gets the votes for the political vermin, they'll be happy...

Later! OL JR


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