# Please help me explain why someone should buy a non-dpf tractor.



## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

They have been looking at a Kubota MX5100 or an MX5200. The 5100 supposedly only has an EGR and is interim Tier 4, the 5200 has an Common Rail and a DPF and is full Tier 4. The 5100 has an EGR but not sure if it has the Common Rail stuff. I'm no diesel mechanic and they make me research all this stuff for them. So could someone explain to me in "*layman's* *terms*" so I can explain to them why it would be better to get the 5100 over the 5200 or is going to make that much difference, I think it will because of all the Regen stuff I've been reading about. There's about a $3000 difference between the 2 tractors. They are wanting Hydrostat, Skid Steer style Loader, 3rd Function, and at least one set of rear remotes and thinking about going with R1's over R4's like they have on the Kubota L3940. They need another small loader tractor.

BTW: It's taken me days to find what few MX5100's are left out there. Most dealers don't want to let go of what they have for transfer so we may have to go a ways to get one. One dealer in Ohio has 5.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Have you looked at the fuel efficiency between the two. The DPF will require heat to do its job. This heat comes from the engine computer dumping extra fuel into the cylinder at some point in order to "build a fire" in the exhaust to be sent downstream to the DPF. The ECM monitors the pressure on the inlet and outlet of the DPF. Once the pressure difference between these two reaches a certain point, it triggers a regeneration. You might see engine temps climb up during the process. I personally think this process is hard on turbos as well. I view it as more stuff that could go wrong. That EGR is bad enough. There's always the possibility of it springing a leak and you'll lose engine coolant. Tier 3 is a good design. It's got a common rail fuel system yet lacks the EGR and DPF. Plus, tier 3 tractors as a whole have a lot of the late model comforts.

I would like to see DPF hours of service on a tractor. How long will it work before it needs to be cleaned out? From what I've researched on pickups (Dodge Cummins mostly), a high end user (lots of hi way miles or pulling loads constantly) Hot shots can get 150-170,000 miles out of the trucks DPF before it needs to be replaced or cleaned. Ash is the accumulation.


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## SVFHAY (Dec 5, 2008)

I have no first hand knowledge on small tractors. I assume they will be similar to highway trucks and most likely more of a headache because chore tractors idle a lot and may not be under load often enough.

Egr engines have been with us for many years in gas and diesel engines and guess what, turns out it is never a good idea to burn hot dirty air in an internal combustion engine if dependability and economy of operation are your goals. Filtering exhaust is even worse. The filter will need more regeneration time in direct correlation to idle and light work.

Common rail injection is great, just a lot more complexity and expensive components when it fails. The advantages in economy and control seem to be worth the downsides.

If you must have a new machine now I would find some model without egr and dpf. These technologies will get more dependable with time if you can wait.

On highway trucks the fleets use the strategy of keeping them under warranty and trading. Good thought but the downtime is killing them. So maybe if you get one have a close dealer and stay on their good side.

With all that said, I just bought a def burning common rail tractor. No dpf, no egr. It's a nh t6.155, so far it is nice. You can let it run in the shop and not notice any fumes, and very quiet. The new Holland's in the smaller sizes have the dreaded dpf though.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Kubota dealer told me last fall you can clean the filter once maybe twixe (not cheap) then time to replace for 2 or 3 grand.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

They will like the MX 5100. Good tractor. The way you explain it to them in laymans terms is would they rather pay 3 grand more for a more complicated, more difficult to repair tractor?


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## Hugh (Sep 23, 2013)

I have the 5100. The Kubota mechanic, while he was here doing a service, told me that I lucked-out by getting the 5100. He said something about "tier 4" and it went in one ear and out the other. I am supper happy with the tractor. 2 years so far and can't wait for the thaw. My advice, buy it. Great tractor.


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

I've finally found a dealer that has 2 MX5100 HST's but is still quite a ways away and we will be paying them a visit this week to see what kind of deal we can cut.

My wife has been reading over this thread and threads I posted elsewhere trying to convince them they need to move on this now and not wait if they want to stay away from the DPF. This tractor will be operated in sheds and stables with hay and straw and like the L3940 will have a constant intake of hay dust, radiator screen can get clogged in no time, and unless it's going to be turned off and on 5 or 6 times a day in a 30-45 minute period everyday it sounds like there's going to be a lot leaving the throttle turned up. Will also not be unusual to run it hard loading a 155 bushel manure spreader sometimes 15-20 loads in a given period or cleaning a concrete cow lot of about 6000-7000 sq.ft.

I appreciate all the great info on this. I hope and I'm sure many others do also that with time this will get worked out and something better to control the emissions will come along, it happened with road vehicles after many years of trial and error. We did look at the Mahindra's briefly with their DOC system and no DPF but this is a full time working cattle farm with 2 full-time employees, wife and son and the equipment here needs to be ready and willing at all times. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Mahindras but when you're on a lot with tractors leaking and drawbars not even installed correctly it makes on wonder what kind of service dept. the dealer has.

If anyone has anything else to add it would be greatly appreciated.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

Are they upgeading the L or adding an additional?


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## Grateful11 (Apr 5, 2009)

They decided to keep the L3940 and add on another. For about what would have been the difference in the trade-in for an L6060 we can get the MX5100 out right and have 2 loader tractors that can handle anything we need around here. Those new Grand L 60 series tractors aren't cheap, they're nice but man are they loaded with electronics, even more the L3940. After she read all about tractors running Regen cycles she's pretty determined to stay away from full Tier 4 until someone comes up with something different.

Wife is going to try and cut a deal for a grapple with the MX5100. I sure won't say no to that, it was her idea out of the blue yesterday. The MX5100 has fair bit more loader capacity then the L3940.


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## Bonfire (Oct 21, 2012)

Are you looking for an open station tractor because of the inside the shed work?


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