# Illegal Immigrants collecting $$$



## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

This was shown to me yesterday,to say the least I'm pissed after just cutting a check to the IRS.

We looked it up after the local police raided a guys place for drugs.They found W-2 form with a fake name and a list of 5 dependents,that don't exist!!The local police called the IRS notifying them of the situation.One of the first things they asked was if his SS # started in 9.Once they found out it did they just said they wouldn't do anything about it.

Sooo this guy here Illegally,working at JBS is getting back $5,000 from the IRS for kids that don't exist.

http://www.wthr.com/story/18616411/irs-workers-cite-pressure-to-ok-phony-documents-from-illegal-immigrants


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

"We're good about writing scary letters, but *actually investigating fraud is expensive* *and Congress doesn't want to fund the enforcement side."*

Of course not, they would all end up in jail.

Ralph


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

These guys are good constituents. They vote early. They vote often. And they vote predictably. It is a cheap vote too. Just take money from you and me and give to them. And be sure to disallow any sort of voter Id law.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Personally I dont feel sorry for any of you guys down south with your problem of illegal immigrants. You preach to the rest of the world about how wonderful and great your country is and than get upset when people try to live in this great country of yours.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Its the Libtards preaching to the world and allowing the illegal immigration(votes)to continue that is destroying are country.

Don't lump us all together.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

OMG! up two


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Personally I dont feel sorry for any of you guys down south with your problem of illegal immigrants. You preach to the rest of the world about how wonderful and great your country is and than get upset when people try to live in this great country of yours.


NO, we don't get upset with people wanting to immigrate to this great country of ours....LEGALLY.

We get upset with ILLEGAL immigration.

Pure and simple......there is a tremendous difference.

Do I need to list the differences?

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hog987 said:


> Personally I dont feel sorry for any of you guys down south with your problem of illegal immigrants. You preach to the rest of the world about how wonderful and great your country is and than get upset when people try to live in this great country of yours.


And do you think if all these people crossing the borders illegally were republicans, the govt wouldn't have shut it down?
You need to understand what's REALLY going on down here. Democrats/liberals and RINOs know those illegals each have the potential to vote. They also know they vote democrat for the handouts. They also like big government and want to stay in power.

I don't preach to the rest of the world how wonderful we ARE. I do preach how wonderful we WERE.
Canada doesn't have to worry as much as the US about illegal immigration because 
1. They don't give anchor baby citizenship status 
2. They don't share a border with a 3rd world country with a citizenry that wants to get out of (Mexico)


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Lol wow I seemed to ruffle some feathers. Iam just saying how the rest of the world views things down south. Ya maybe I dont know the whole story. But I also don't like Canada being put on the list of problems with illegals. Which has been done.

Also did you guys ever think that Mexico is just trying to take back what was theirs to begin with, before this great country of yours invaded most of the south west!!!!!


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Lol wow I seemed to ruffle some feathers. Iam just saying how the rest of the world views things down south. Ya maybe I dont know the whole story. But I also don't like Canada being put on the list of problems with illegals. Which has been done.
> 
> Also did you guys ever think that Mexico is just trying to take back what was theirs to begin with, before this great country of yours invaded most of the south west!!!!!


Ok, you did ruffle some feathers....and the thought has crossed my mind about what Mexicans could be up to....but actually it mainly belonged to the Apache and Cheyenne Indians and a few other tribes. The Apache were very fearsome....maybe we need to give back to the Apache remnants...the border along Mexico...say two miles parallel to the border from California down to South Texas....and maybe throw LA in for good measure. 

Regards, Mike


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

Heck they can have all of the left coast.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hog, your country was founded by British and French stealing from native people's, too.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

JD3430 said:


> Hog, your country was founded by British and French stealing from native people's, too.


LOL,He should look at his own house before casting stones.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

There is a big difference between what Canada did and what the States did. Canada was sneaky. They had one sided treaties that displaced the natives onto very small reserves of land. What the States did was invade and kill. After the war of 1812 which was lost the States stopped going north and turned to invade the west. Which belonged to the natives and Mexico. Legally speaking most of Canada was bought fron the Hudsons Bay Company. 
Swmnhay one of my hobbies is studying history. Not just what was taught in school. The only way to fully understand whats going on is to look at events from many sides. This is hard cause history is written by the victors. In the case of the south west you guys were the victors.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

History wasn't my best subject.

But where did Hudson Bay Co get the land from?


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> History wasn't my best subject.
> 
> But where did Hudson Bay Co get the land from?


They laid claim to it. They usually had a good relationship with the natives for the fur trade. They were not really the one who displaced the natives. They had no need to do that. See the natives did all the work trapping and hunting. Than they would go to a trading post and trade furs for whatever. The furs would be taken back to England and so for a huge profit.

It was not till the crown was expanding the colonies that the natives were being displaced. Buy the land from the hudsons bay company. Displace the natives and move in your own people that can than settle and be taxed. They did get better(or worse depending on which side your on) of displacing the natives and giving them less rights. See the natives here in Alberta have less rights than those back east. Like I said the crown was very sneaky in what they did.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hog987 said:


> They laid claim to it. They usually had a good relationship with the natives for the fur trade. They were not really the one who displaced the natives. They had no need to do that. See the natives did all the work trapping and hunting. Than they would go to a trading post and trade furs for whatever. The furs would be taken back to England and so for a huge profit.
> 
> It was not till the crown was expanding the colonies that the natives were being displaced. Buy the land from the hudsons bay company. Displace the natives and move in your own people that can than settle and be taxed. They did get better(or worse depending on which side your on) of displacing the natives and giving them less rights. See the natives here in Alberta have less rights than those back east. Like I said the crown was very sneaky in what they did.


At the end of the day, Europeans in Canada pushed native people off what was THEIR land. Sneaky, violent, whatever, native people of Canada got hosed.

I really don't feel bad about slavery, Indian problems, etc. because my family didnt even get to the US until the 1930's. My ancestors aren't guilty of anything but coming here with very little $ and making it the honest, hard way. We never owned any slaves or were part of any of those atrocities.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

hog987 said:


> Lol wow I seemed to ruffle some feathers. Iam just saying how the rest of the world views things down south. Ya maybe I dont know the whole story. But I also don't like Canada being put on the list of problems with illegals. Which has been done.
> 
> Also did you guys ever think that Mexico is just trying to take back what was theirs to begin with, before this great country of yours invaded most of the south west!!!!!


Events that occured 150-200 years ago have little (nothing?) to do with illegal immigration today.

The US has very liberal immigration laws. Basically, we will let anybody into this country whereas some countries have strict stipulations on who they will allow. However, as @VOL said above, there is a legal way to come into this country. The illegal aliens do not want to go through the process of legal immigration. They much prefer to walk/sneak across the border and take advantage of the generosity of the US taxpayer.

Back in 1986, the US granted amnesty to some 3 million illegals. Politicians said they would fix the border issue. Surprise, surprise, politicians lied and the border remained an open seive.

Today, there are some 11-30 million illegal aliens in this country, depending on which group is putting the estimate together. Fact is, nobody really knows. Problem is that these illegal aliens are not your doctors and engineers and scientists. They are low skilled, low educated workers. The effect is that they depress the wages of that entire worker demographic.

Other societal problems abound with this large group of illegal aliens. US hospitals are required to treat emergency patients - regardless of their ability to pay. Many hospitals in the Southwest have been forced to close due to financial difficulties caused by this mass influx of illegals, who often drop someone off at the emergency room and the cost to treat them runs in the tens of thousands of dollars. There are numerous cases where an illegal alien received an organ transplant at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Now let's talk about schools. The children of illegal aliens show up at the schoolhouse door and US taxpayers provide them with a free education. Often, the schools have to hire specialty teachers to teach the non-English speaking students.

Finally, let's talk about crime. Hispanic crime rate is only slightly better than the black crime rate. Often, the illegal alien criminal is released on bail pending his trial and surprise, surprise, they don't show up. Pick up a new fake ID and move to another town. This hits close to home for me as we have some good friends whose daughter was killed by a drunk illegal alien in a car wreck. They released him on bail and he immediately skipped the country. He should not have been here in the first place.

@hog, if you touched a nerve, it is because people are fed up with this illegal immigration crap. Personally, I think we should have pulled our military troops home from around the world (another pet peeve of mine) and put them on the Mexican border.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

So lets look at this from a different angle. The illegals are doing some low wage jobs that other people either won't or do not want to do. All this is done so you can get cheap veggies at wally world or something similar. If the prices of the products rises the consumer will complain. If the other guy producing the product has to pay more for wages he will go out of business. So either you pay for some cheap stuff at store(or cheap service of some sort) and put out for the medical bills or schooling. Or just pay more for products and services and not have the illegals draining your health care or schooling.

Another thing. illegals are big business. Just think of all the jobs for the people who are trying to keep them out. All the man power up front. The equipment they have. The jobs of building all this stuff. How many people will be unemployed if the illegals stopped.

Now RockMart. You do need to learn history. One reason is history repeats its self. Another big thing is that it helps you understand why things are the way they are today.

I see the problem you have with illegals as a more complex problem than anyone of you make it out to be. Also like I said I dont feel sorry for you guys cause your country created the problem in the first place. Now ask yourself what would happen if all that cheap labour packed up and left the States tomorrow? Will things be any better? Before you answer a quick yes really think about it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> After the war of 1812 which was lost the States stopped going north and turned to invade the west. Which belonged to the natives and Mexico.


You must study history with a total European slant.

Regards, Mike


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hog987 said:


> So lets look at this from a different angle. The illegals are doing some low wage jobs that other people either won't or do not want to do. All this is done so you can get cheap veggies at wally world or something similar. If the prices of the products rises the consumer will complain. If the other guy producing the product has to pay more for wages he will go out of business. So either you pay for some cheap stuff at store(or cheap service of some sort) and put out for the medical bills or schooling. Or just pay more for products and services and not have the illegals draining your health care or schooling.
> 
> Another thing. illegals are big business. Just think of all the jobs for the people who are trying to keep them out. All the man power up front. The equipment they have. The jobs of building all this stuff. How many people will be unemployed if the illegals stopped.
> 
> ...


You know hog, bottom line is when you live in a country where people will risk their lives to get into and you have 3,000 miles of borders with 3rd world countries, this can be a problem. Canada doesn't have that problem. It's not very desireable for illegals to live there and you don't have 3,000 miles of borders with third world countries.

Maybe if you did, you'd be singing a different tune? 
I wish they would self deport or all be rounded up and taken back. I think that prices on goods would go up that they are involved in making, but taxes for law enforcement, prison costs, welfare costs and unemployment costs would go down so much that it would wash the costs to us to even. Many of our recent LEGAL immigrants will still be here picking, packing meat, etc.

And don't forget, Canadians benefit from low US vegetable, orange juice, etc. products too. You'd be screwed on higher prices for stuff just like us.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Something that nobody has mentioned yet, Mexico has far stricter immigration laws than the states. You MUST speak their language, you will not collect anything from the government if you are illegal. Yet the mexican government refuses to help us stem the flow of illegals from their country to ours.

The anchor baby thing is a hold over from the civil war and has no real use today other than to pad the democratic party's voter rolls.

It was three kinds of hell for the wife to finally collect her disability. Every doctor we took her to agreed she can't work anymore, the docs SS disability sent her to agreed she couldn't work anymore, one even commented "you really are sick". Yet it took a lawyer and money out of our pocket to pay the lawyer to finally get her disability. She paid into the system and had earned it, yet if we changed her last name to Gonzalez or Chavez she would have had half a dozen government agencies beating on our door wanting to give her a check.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

mlappin said:


> Something that nobody has mentioned yet, Mexico has far stricter immigration laws than the states. You MUST speak their language, you will not collect anything from the government if you are illegal. Yet the mexican government refuses to help us stem the flow of illegals from their country to ours.


Obviously. It helps them get rid of criminals.... Lol


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

I've not known a lot of Mexicans, but the ones I did get to know were good people, hard working, honest, etc. They did low-paying, hard jobs that a lot of Americans felt they were too good to do and that the government (meaning me) should bale them out.

Given the choice, I'd rather have 10 Mexican workers like that than one jackass American living off the dole.

BTW: All you Canadians--would I be able to immigrate to Canada once global warming hits?

Ralph


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

Sure can, I have neighbors from your State. BTW if you see Bieber hitch hiking North DON'T PICK HIM UP!


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

rjmoses said:


> I've not known a lot of Mexicans, but the ones I did get to know were good people, hard working, honest, etc. They did low-paying, hard jobs that a lot of Americans felt they were too good to do and that the government (meaning me) should bale them out.
> 
> Given the choice, I'd rather have 10 Mexican workers like that than one jackass American living off the dole.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with you Ralph. I am going to have about 15 of them on the farm today to load out 24000 turkeys weighing 45 lbs each. Did also mention it is Sunday, it is 20 degrees, and we are in the middle of another freaking winter storm. There are also a whole bunch of the amigos that work at the slaughter house every day processing these turkeys. Thousands of acres of melons and produce are hand picked my area each year by the Hispanics. I really do not care if they are illegal, legal or whatever, they flat freaking work. I know the guys on the turkey crews are making $10/hour and there are no lazy white meth heads around here going to do jack shit for 10 an hour, but you can still make a living here on that if you live with in your means. I am telling you now, take the Hispanic work force out of this country and starvation will be rampant in less than 30 days. And one other thing, concerning history, you guys might want to check your backgrounds, but unless you are Native American or Eskimo, your families were immigrants that came here and took the low paying and dangerous jobs that nobody else wanted at the time in hopes of not only persisting but building a better life for the next generation.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, but my grandfather came here LEGALLY. Too many of these workers are illegal. We need to remain a nation of laws or we lose control.

I just don't want the gray areas. Either they come here legally, get legal citizenship and are welcome, or they're here illegally and should leave. No ambiguity. 
If they are so desperately needed, then make acquiring citizenship faster. Get the background checks done quicker and add more agents to hasten the system. I can't understand why we just don't eliminate the bureaucracy to make them legal if they're needed so bad?

They may be great workers, but they need to be legal workers. Too many drawbacks having illegal aliens here.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

carcajou said:


> Sure can, I have neighbors from your State. BTW if you see Bieber hitch hiking North DON'T PICK HIM UP!


Yeah, but an anchor baby wouldn't make him legal. No anchor babies in Canada! Lol


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

My original post was about tax fraud and how it was not even enforced when found out just because they are illegal.

I think most have no problem if they are here legally,work,law abideing people.

It's all the other BS that ticks everyone off.From welfare fraud,worker comp fraud,tax fraud to drugs and crime.

Once they figure a way to screw the system it spreads like wild fire and the rest of us end up paying more in taxes or are national debt skyrocketing.

My friends sister that works in medical claims was just telling me how a lot of workers that she seen fileing workers comp claims on a packing plant.They chose not to take health insurance from the employer because they didn't want to pay there share of 50-75 per check.So then they turn in workers comp claim instead of having sustained a injury at work even tho it may have happened at home.The list goes on and on how it costs us.


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## RockmartGA (Jun 29, 2011)

"The illegals are doing some low wage jobs that other people either won't or do not want to do."

Ever watch "Dirty Jobs"? LOL

However, failed welfare policies have taken much of the incentive to work away from the low skilled, low educated. Why should they work when 35 states provide public assistance programs that exceed the minimum wage?

The other part of that equation is the businesses that take advantage of the illegal alien labor pool. Back in the 80's, there was a chicken processing plant in a neighboring town. The owner started bringing in illegals, housing them 8-10 in a run-down trailer park, and paying them below market wages. He got rich, the taxpayers continue to pay the price in crime, welfare benefits for the "anchor babies", healthcare, and education. An entire section of town is now a mexican ghetto.

"Another thing. illegals are big business."

It's also big politics. Democrats learned that hispanics vote predominately for democrats. Politicians don't seem to care that they are driving the country straight for the cliff as long as they keep getting re-elected.

"Now RockMart. You do need to learn history."

I love history. You and I just disagree on the genesis of the illegal immigration problem. You say it began with the American westward expansion of the 1800's and I say it began with the failed welfare policies of LBJ's "Great Society" in the 1960's.

Speaking of history, Americans would do well to read up on the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. The similarities are strikingly familiar and do not bode well for America.

"I said I dont feel sorry for you guys cause your country created the problem in the first place."

You might want to be concerned. I look at the path this country is headed and quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me. It's not just the illegal immigration problem, but our monetary policy, our foreign policy, our trade policy, etc, etc, etc.

Like it or not, the Canadian economy is tied to the American economy. Right now, our economy is akin to a giant Ponzi Scheme. At some point, it is going to collapse on itself. When it does, it will drag a lot of countries along with it.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Canada is screwed without America. Even with the rise of China, were still Canada's biggest customer. We're becoming bigger with the liberals in charge shutting down our lumber industry, our coal industry. Farmers are next. Big regulations on emissions, chemicals, etc. 
You watch, they'll regulate farmers out of existence next.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

JD3430 said:


> Yes, but my grandfather came here LEGALLY. Too many of these workers are illegal. We need to remain a nation of laws or we lose control.
> 
> I just don't want the gray areas. Either they come here legally, get legal citizenship and are welcome, or they're here illegally and should leave. No ambiguity.
> If they are so desperately needed, then make acquiring citizenship faster. Get the background checks done quicker and add more agents to hasten the system. I can't understand why we just don't eliminate the bureaucracy to make them legal if they're needed so bad?
> ...


Thats all fine and dandy as long as they continue to work. Welfare and such should be like un-employment, use it up and it's gone till you go back to work.


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

And we are the US 2nd largest customer. It works both ways.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

The "they do stuff americans won't" is a load of crap. Cut people off the dole that are able to work and if it's the choice between going hungry or loading turkeys on a sunday in a snowstorm and I think I can safely say most will load turkeys. The ones that would rather starve than work are just polluting the gene pool.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Vol said:


> You must study history with a total European slant.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Why do you say that??? Is it cause you guys are taught that you never lost a war?


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## haybaler101 (Nov 30, 2008)

mlappin said:


> The "they do stuff americans won't" is a load of crap. Cut people off the dole that are able to work and if it's the choice between going hungry or loading turkeys on a sunday in a snowstorm and I think I can safely say most will load turkeys. The ones that would rather starve than work are just polluting the gene pool.


Exactly! Illegals are not to blame for the current state of disrepair of the USA, they are merely part of the result of 80 years of the welfare system that just keeps getting better by the day (for those that do not work). Fortunately, the farms and companies hiring Hispanics here all dealing with legals for the most part, either citizens or green cards. I know there is fraud in that too, but a couple have been busted and most are trying to keep it on the straight.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> Why do you say that??? Is it cause you guys are taught that you never lost a war?


You ain't never been educated in our country hog..... you don't think we lost the Vietnam political war? everyone here knows we lost, why don't you? Perhaps none of your relatives didn't come back home to see their children, grand children......we damn sure don't lose many, but that was one we lost....and we ain't gonna win another one, not even sure you can ultimately win a war anymore......

I know people in other countries get tired of the chest beating that Americans seem to do so often, we used to have a reason to beat it......we are quickly losing it and illegal immigration is but one of the many ways its happening....


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

JD3430 said:


> Canada is screwed without America. Even with the rise of China, were still Canada's biggest customer. We're becoming bigger with the liberals in charge shutting down our lumber industry, our coal industry. Farmers are next. Big regulations on emissions, chemicals, etc.
> You watch, they'll regulate farmers out of existence next.


Small farmers are next....kinda like California, all farmers must have the newest tractors with the lowest carbon footprint available or it's no more farming for you! Course like slowsuki said......shouldn't be too bad on most of em...oh boy


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

I never did intend to say what the problem with illegals was. Just trying to get people to look at things from more than one angle cause most problems are a little more complex than first meets the eye.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

hog987 said:


> I never did intend to say what the problem with illegals was. Just trying to get people to look at things from more than one angle cause most problems are a little more complex than first meets the eye.


I have no problem with immigrants as long as they do it legally and speak the damn language. Nothing pushes my buttons faster than being asked to press one for english or two for spanish in my own damn country.

I know all about immigration, both sides of the family Americanized their last names when they came here, they all learned to speak english asap, and they all made sacrifices in both world wars, korea and vietnam. I have Shiebelhuts and Banacki's on my Moms side, those were after they Americanized them. Grandpa Banacki was a highly decorated paratrooper in WWII, not once did he demand something was wrote or spoken in his native language. Dads side had Bergers, Akers, and Balmers. Grandpa Lappin was orphaned by 1920, he still made something of himself and he did it without the government tit.

NONE of them ever thought about sneaking in then seeing how they could milk the system and none of them ever thought about protesting against their new homeland because they thought they weren't being given enough.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Exactly. The implication that my ancestors entered this country in the same way illegals are here is reprehensible. 
We arrived here, legally, learned the language and became part of the English speaking America. Never took any handouts or broke the law.

Illegals, mostly from Mexico, want in, illegally, want to keep their own language, have a baby, be allowed to stay on the anchor baby status, then deplete the welfare system as long as they can stay on it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Why do you say that??? Is it cause you guys are taught that you never lost a war?


Nope, it is because most historians other than Europeans view the War of 1812 as a stalemate.....no boundaries were exchanged or moved....the fledgling Americans withstood the worlds most advanced Navy.....and most importantly, the Brits never assaulted the American people again....

Regards, Mike


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Vol said:


> Nope, it is because most historians other than Europeans view the War of 1812 as a stalemate.....no boundaries were exchanged or moved....the fledgling Americans withstood the worlds most advanced Navy.....and most importantly, the Brits never assaulted the American people again....
> 
> Regards, Mike


Are you saying most historians or most US historians??? Our Canadian historians say we won the war. We pushed you back to the white house. Set things in place for our current boarder. After that with your manifest destiny you went west and south.

Like I said before all depends on your point of view. We were taught in school that was one war we won and that no one form the states will admit that we won. At best they will call it a stalemate. Just like you have stated.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

hog987 said:


> Are you saying most historians or most US historians??? Our Canadian historians say we won the war. We pushed you back to the white house. Set things in place for our current boarder. After that with your manifest destiny you went west and south.
> 
> Like I said before all depends on your point of view. We were taught in school that was one war we won and that no one form the states will admit that we won. At best they will call it a stalemate. Just like you have stated.


Yes hog....that is strange indeed....seeing that Canada did not even become a country until 1867....the war was between the US and the Brits....

Regards, Mike


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Vol said:


> Yes hog....that is strange indeed....seeing that Canada did not even become a country until 1867....the war was between the US and the Brits....
> 
> Regards, Mike


The war was between Upper and Lower Canada colonies of Britain. Also if Canada did not win that war we would not be here today we would be part of the US.


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## swmnhay (Jun 13, 2008)

I think we need a rematch.Winner take all.


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I was taught all kinds of things in school. Lucky for me I was taught prior to that to think for myself. Liberal teachers and textbooks are by no means a reliable source. They may be right sometimes. Some more than others. But by no means would I consider them reliable sources without much further research.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

swmnhay said:


> I think we need a rematch.Winner take all.


You know, if you read between the lines there's push to put the US, Canada and Mexico together. I'm serious. I also want nothing to do with it.
Sounds like another liberal fantasy.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Sounds like hog is a troll . Dont feed trolls they just are hateful little men with mental disorders. Like to stir up trouble , create hate and discontent .


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I wouldn't say that. Just has a different viewpoint from the outside looking in versus the other way around.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Disrespectful sob if you ask me , Typical from some of them north of the border. IMO btw who gives a damn what a canook thinks about issues in the USA .


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## deadmoose (Oct 30, 2011)

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire


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## carcajou (Jan 28, 2011)

panhandle9400 said:


> Disrespectful sob if you ask me , Typical from some of them north of the border. IMO btw who gives a damn what a canook thinks about issues in the USA .


Sounds like you have a little troll in you also. No disrespect intended


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

swmnhay said:


> I think we need a rematch.Winner take all.


Lol, Not sure we want it or they want us.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, I'm trying to see where this topic went wrong, but this seems like the first bit of negativity was introduced:



hog987 said:


> Personally I dont feel sorry for any of you guys down south with your problem of illegal immigrants. You preach to the rest of the world about how wonderful and great your country is and than get upset when people try to live in this great country of yours.


1. I don't "preach how wonderful and great our country is to the rest of the world" and frankly, I don't see any of the other guys on this website doing that, either. I don't think I'm any better than a Canadian, a Swede or anyone else.

2. NONE of us down here "get upset when people try to live in this great country of yours" with one exception. They must come here LEGALLY.

Of course we get upset when we are over run by illegals and trust me hog, you would too! 
Don't try to preach to us about dealing with a problem that you yourself are unaffected by! 
There's my pre-snowstorm rant!


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

We are on an international forum.... right??? If anyone does not want opinions about their countries social issues from other parts of the world than don't even post them.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't like the way this is heading. I think it's time everybody took a few steps back and think a little about what has been said and whether it even belongs in the boiler room.

This is an international forum open to anybody in the world that wants to join, hard as some may find it to believe people from different countries have different perspectives and more often than not won't agree with yours. Get used to it, the world is becoming a smaller place everyday.

If you can't post a reply without intentionally insulting another member then maybe's it best if it isn't posted at all.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hog987 said:


> We are on an international forum.... right??? If anyone does not want opinions about their countries social issues from other parts of the world than don't even post them.


Yeah, of course it is and I do want to hear your opinions, but only going negative on the US without recognizing its brought a lot of good to the world, too might not bring you as much negative reaction??
Just some friendly advice, farmer to farmer.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Hog has some resentment it sounds like against the US.......that's understandable, being on top places one in that position....don't worry hog, we're backing up to you.....but don't act like you know how we are taught, how we think, or our values. You will never know that.....you're a Canadian


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Let's be nice to our Northern Neighbors. The Canadians I've met were were all reasonable people.

As far as illegal immigrants go, is it any surprise that they are so good at milking the welfare system? They work hard at their day jobs too. And don't forget that the illegals didn't create the welfare system. U. S. citizens did.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah but they still break the law crossing the border.


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

Here I was all up for a good debate on a cold winter day. But somehow I have seemed to offend a lot of people. If someone does not want an opinion from another part of the world than please dont post about your own countries social and ploitical issues. By doing that someone will always seem to get offended. Maybe we should keep things about hay and just leave the social and political issues out. Just cause we cant seem to have a debate with out mud slinging.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Gearclash said:


> Let's be nice to our Northern Neighbors. The Canadians I've met were were all reasonable people.
> 
> As far as illegal immigrants go, is it any surprise that they are so good at milking the welfare system? They work hard at their day jobs too. And don't forget that the illegals didn't create the welfare system. U. S. citizens did.


I believe that's what hog meant to imply on his first post...he doesn't feel sorry for us, we created it, and he's right....why feel sorry for someone who did it to themselves, for that I couldn't agree more, I would feel the same way

However, the mud slanging began about a reference to our teachings in our schools.....that reference spoke volumes....

But, be that as it may, we all know in the US that Canada is a very strong partner, despite what you may thnk, we werent taught anything differently, the body bags tell us civil (it was a class when I was in school) folks that wars can't be "won", it's no game...and whenever America is there, standing beside us is Canada

This immigration issue is something that faces us farmers directly, I can see no reason why it shouldn't be discussed on this forum/international be damned, typical mindset tho, silence those who don't hold the same opin.....


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Slightly off topic, but what really hurts me are the 100's of thousands of brave Americans who died to keep the world free.
Some people disrespect our country. Fine, let them do it, but while you're disrespecting, at least recognize that without the sacrifices made by America, we could be speaking German or Japanese or maybe even Russian. 
Would really like to see one of these so called "allies" of ours for once carry the water when some helpless nation gets screwed with. One such country that seems to still have a pair is Australia. Those boys down there have courage and conviction.

Would love to see if one of them has the balls to stand up to Putin in Ukraine. 
We ain't gonna do it, not with "president Teleprompter" and "Captain Ketchup" in charge. Worthless.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

pretty well spoken jd3430 , I sure dont want to see the us soldier have to fight another war . I am tired of seeing them die for some worthless muslim trash...................


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

panhandle9400 said:


> pretty well spoken jd3430 , I sure dont want to see the us soldier have to fight another war . I am tired of seeing them die for some worthless muslim trash...................


First of all the Ukraine is not a Muslim nation. Second the term Muslim trash is a racist remark.

Like I said Iam all for a heated debate but we MUST KEEP PERSONAL INSULTS AND RACIST REMARKS OUT OF IT.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> First of all the Ukraine is not a Muslim nation. Second the term Muslim trash is a racist remark.
> 
> Like I said Iam all for a heated debate but we MUST KEEP PERSONAL INSULTS AND RACIST REMARKS OUT OF IT.


Depends on who gets killed tryin to defend said piece of rubbish.....that's the delimma, if my son or brother gave the ultimate sacrifice, I think I would probably refer to them like that as well, and you probably would as well....everyone has their own story.

Have many friends that didn't make it back from Nam, I'll call whatever i please, don't really give a damn what anyone thinks about it....but that's just me


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## hog987 (Apr 5, 2011)

somedevildawg said:


> Depends on who gets killed tryin to defend said piece of rubbish.....that's the delimma, if my son or brother gave the ultimate sacrifice, I think I would probably refer to them like that as well, and you probably would as well....everyone has their own story.
> 
> Have many friends that didn't make it back from Nam, I'll call whatever i please, don't really give a damn what anyone thinks about it....but that's just me


If you want to get annoyed with anyone over these type of issues get mad at your own government. Remember any so called war that the US has been in in the last 50 or so years they have been the ones doing the invading. Dont get mad at little Johnny trying to defend his own country from your invading army. Dont get mad at him for killing your brother and then deciding that all those guys over there are a bunch of BLEEP BLEEPS. From his point of view he was being invaded and he is just trying to keep his home.

How would you like it if someone broke into your house, beat you into a coma, killed your kids and raped your wife. Than after all this was done painted the picture to the world of you being the bad guy????


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hog,

Lets look at differences. When the US invades, many times its to protect civilized society from an aggressor to us AND the rest of the world.
For example, invading Afghanistan was very effective at keeping our children AND YOURS from terrorism. During our occupation, the rest of the world remained pretty safe from terrorism and that scumbag Osama Bin Laden is dead. 
Iraq invaded Kuwait. Clearly they were an aggressor invading a sovereign nation. 
While I don't support occupying other countries, one needs to put their anti war march sign down and recognize that sometimes its better to go kill these miserable child murdering SOBs where they are instead of in the streets of New York ( or Toronto).

I would also like to remind you that Canada participated in the Gulf War invasion of Iraq. Therefore, they are a target for past, current and future attacks.

You know that Canada has had terrorism attacks including: Air India bombing committed by Sikhs. Quebec politician kidnapped and murdered by separatist terrorists. Assassination of 14 female engineering students in Montreal by a North African immigrant. A shooting in a Montreal college which killed one and injured several others was committed by a Sikh. A plot to bomb downtown Toronto was thwarted and a dozen Muslims were tried and convicted. The so-called Millennium bomber, who planned to attack LAX was apprehended at the border with British Columbia. He was a Muslim who had lived in Montreal. Two Muslims are about to go on trial for plotting an attack on a train as it was crossing Niagara into NY State.

One thing you'll notice about all America haters: when other countries like Russia invading Ukraine,, its purely for conquest and Economic benefit. Why don't they rip Russia for what they're doing instead of the US? Russia took all of Eastern Europe after WWII, but nobody ever talks about that!! WHY?


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

hog987 said:


> If you want to get annoyed with anyone over these type of issues get mad at your own government. Remember any so called war that the US has been in in the last 50 or so years they have been the ones doing the invading. Dont get mad at little Johnny trying to defend his own country from your invading army. Dont get mad at him for killing your brother and then deciding that all those guys over there are a bunch of BLEEP BLEEPS. From his point of view he was being invaded and he is just trying to keep his home.
> 
> How would you like it if someone broke into your house, beat you into a coma, killed your kids and raped your wife. Than after all this was done painted the picture to the world of you being the bad guy????


Showing your true colors now hog.........I can get mad at whomever I damn well please and I don't need your manipulation of facts to govern my thought process...although I really appreciate the help.....

I guess next time, with the continuation of liberal thinking ideals, we will wait for them to come into Georgia and Florida before we open fire, i suppose we will be held in a little higher regard for your class....

If you ever come to Georgia by mistake, make sure to look me up.........but I ain't gonna kill the kids, rape the wife and tell everybody a big ole lie.....I'll just whoop your ass....guess we know what they teach in YOUR schools now, course you're so damn smart you probably wrote the book....


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I quit commenting on these, but come one. You're threatening to whoop his ass? Give the guy a break for being able to understand that not every Muslim, Vietnamese, whatever is not trash just because we were in a war with them. I'll go back to just lurking now.


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

hog987 said:


> First of all the Ukraine is not a Muslim nation. Second the term Muslim trash is a racist remark.
> 
> Like I said Iam all for a heated debate but we MUST KEEP PERSONAL INSULTS AND RACIST REMARKS OUT OF IT.


1st off I AM NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE UKRAINE , I was referring to the middle east where out TROOPS are at war with the muslims there !!!!!!!!!! Well if you love the muslims good for you , to me a muslim is no different than a rattlesnake, best cut its head off , There is no reason for me to debate you ? You have not a thing I care to hear, what comments you made before has told me you would be a waste of my time . You are pretty good at throwing insults around ? so be it . I do wish you would stop sending me your pms .If you guys get all worked up over HOW I feel towards muslims thats too bad. You need to grow up hog, get that chip off your shoulder .


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

If the personal attacks on members of this forum don't stop NOW, I will lock this thread, *period*.

I don't believe in censorship, but the comments that have been made could be handled in a much more civilized mature manner.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

hog987 said:


> If you want to get annoyed with anyone over these type of issues get mad at your own government. Remember any so called war that the US has been in in the last 50 or so years they have been the ones doing the invading. Dont get mad at little Johnny trying to defend his own country from your invading army. Dont get mad at him for killing your brother and then deciding that all those guys over there are a bunch of BLEEP BLEEPS. From his point of view he was being invaded and he is just trying to keep his home.
> 
> How would you like it if someone broke into your house, beat you into a coma, killed your kids and raped your wife. Than after all this was done painted the picture to the world of you being the bad guy????


So when IRAQ invaded Kuwait, WHO was doing the "invading"?

But we all know, it's more fun to "blame Bush" along with the liberal media than to looks at the FACTS.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

You're right, I don't have the capacity to understand those kinds of things, I shoulda read more comic books when I was younger...... But ok, I give you a break hog for being a moron


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

And to make sure Kuwait's oil production didn't slow, lets not forget that. Half the stuff in the middle east we've been involved in is over oil, lets not fool ourselves for a minute thinking other wise. All the more reason to drill baby drill right here in the USA and keep our money here where it belongs.

Is it so hard to believe that some countries don't have warm fuzzies towards the USA when we invade their country for whatever reason, then tell them their doing it wrong, tell them that their customs that have been around ten times longer than our country are wrong, then usually leave when our interests are best served and the hell with theirs?

I don't think none of us want the feds telling us how to run our farms, make our way in life or take care of our families, but we except other countries to be glad when we do it to them?


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

somedevildawg said:


> You're right, I don't have the capacity to understand those kinds of things, I shoulda read more comic books when I was younger...... But ok, I give you a break hog for being a moron


 One more like that and we are done here.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

mlappin said:


> If the personal attacks on members of this forum don't stop NOW, I will lock this thread, *period*.
> 
> I don't believe in censorship, but the comments that have been made could be handled in a much more civilized mature manner.


You shoulda blocked it when propaganda man made his outlandish claims against our men and women in uniform.....see it for what it is and block it if that's what you think, I certainly would concur.....


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

8350HiTech said:


> I quit commenting on these, but come one. You're threatening to whoop his ass? Give the guy a break for being able to understand that not every Muslim, Vietnamese, whatever is not trash just because we were in a war with them. I'll go back to just lurking now.


I dont think that it is a threat , I think the Southern boy was making an offer.........


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## panhandle9400 (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah its not too tough to look back through this whole deal and see WHO started all the trouble ......................I bet you smell the stinch of hog too.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

Go back thru other posts guys, has it ever got this ugly before?

There is no point in a discussion if it can't be done in a civilized manner. Veiled threats and name calling belong on the playground, not on a forum where supposedly mature self sufficient adults gather to learn or share what they've learned about life, farming and especially haymaking.


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

panhandle9400 said:


> Yeah its not too tough to look back through this whole deal and see WHO started all the trouble ......................I bet you smell the stinch of hog too.


 I give up.

And we are done.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

mlappin said:


> Go back thru other posts guys, has it ever got this ugly before?
> 
> There is no point in a discussion if it can't be done in a civilized manner. Veiled threats and name calling belong on the playground, not on a forum where supposedly mature self sufficient adults gather to learn or share what they've learned about life, farming and especially haymaking.


Agree....and we also need to include the juvenile behavior that repeatedly antagonized others to the breaking point....even when one could see clearly that things were going very, very wrong....it continued on. Lack of mature discretion on not knowing when to cease provocation has contributed greatly to this situation.

Mike


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