# hay not drying, what's my next step



## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

I mowed a field Wed afternoon around 1 pm. It was full sun and about 78 degrees. Tedded it a few hours later and got full coverage.

Thursday was cloudy and mid-70's.

Today was sunny with some clouds, 78-80 degrees, 53% humidity, no wind. I raked the field at 3 pm. Started baling at 4:30, and tested the first few bales, I was getting 18-20+% (small squares). I moved to the center of the field where the hay would always get full sun and tested some more with the same moisture. The hay felt dry on the ground but when we were breaking the bales apart to respread out you could indeed tell they felt a little damp.

They are pretty good sized windrows. I left the hay in rotary-raked windrows. I debated tedding them back out or leaving them as is. I left them. Everbody fauns about how well rotary raked windrows are still supposed to dry.

Tomorrow is supposed to be 83 degrees and full sun. Sun will be the same but even hotter, 86 degrees. After dew is gone, should I re-ted the rows back out or leave them as windrows? Will I get sufficient drying in the rotary windrows? The hay inside shouldn't dew I wouldn't think, but then it's not getting as much sun either.

Seems like a lot of people around here are having problems with hay getting dry enough.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Since you got it down to 18-20% today and calling for hotter sunnier weather tomorrow I would not ted again. I’d wait til the dew is off and then flip the windrows with your rake. This should get some air moving through it again and I bet will be ready to bale soon after. This time of year we try to rake or half rake the evening before baling and then flip or combine windrows as soon as dew is off the next day. Let’s us get baling sooner since the windows are shorter this time of year.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

This is the time of year when if you are not exceptionally hot, you will need another day to dry due to the lower angle of the sun not radiating the hay as well....yep, it will be officially fall a week from tomorrow.

Regards, Mike


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## rjmoses (Apr 4, 2010)

With those weather conditions at this time of year, I would need 4-5, probably 5, days to get even a light cutting dry.

Ralph


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## Beav (Feb 14, 2016)

same here yesterday hay start to get tough and moisture jumped to 20% 6PM had been 10% to 15% all day quit and flipped the windrows could feel dampness on the bottom started to bale an hour later 10% to 13%. Raked the first outside rounds of some fourth cutting Alfalfa we cut Monday it was 15% to 20% ran preservative it will finish it tomorrow. We have lost over 2 hours of daylight and cool nights are making heavy dew add at least one if not two extra days for dry down


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Rotary rakes are great for drying if you have a crop with structure to stand up in the windrow. If it’s just second cutting grass and all leaf, it’s going to sag back down faster. By tomorrow, it will need something again, hopefully just kicking it back up with the rake. I’m actually surprised you were able to get it to 18% in three days.


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## VA Haymaker (Jul 1, 2014)

+1 what everyone says.

Probably to late for this year, but we've had good luck with buffered propionic acid hay preservative.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Yeah I don’t have a preservative system, was wishing I had one today. Ive considered getting one next year. My plan was to re-rake again tomorrow which looks like what the consensus is.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

In your circumstance I would pull a fluffer tedder over it. Really helps dry a windrow, especially a settled windrow, without having to follow up with a rake to make a new windrow. Re raking doesn't expose the damp inner core of a windrow like I want to see. Maybe a rotary rake does do that more?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Same issues here Josh.
My ground is in a permanent state of "mud" this year. The vapors keep dampening the bottom of the windrow. Usually a little breeze and using my rake to prop the hay up in tall, vertical windrow helps.

One technique is utilizing your swather board so that it places the hay in the part of windrow where the grass is "dry", NOT on top of the swath where the previous windrow was laying because that swath is damp. In MY situation, my swather board is pulled in tight and only moves the hay about 2' to the left on drier ground.

Another thing I have learned over the years is to install high stubble skid shoes on my discbine. I have found that higher stubble allows you to place your windrow higher up off the ground and get ventilation underneath.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Josh, I think everyone is dead on, turn it after dew is off. I got the same situation, we are getting heavy dews (plus fog). Still have good forecasts for the next couple of days. As someone mentioned, the loss of daylight hours isn't helping. This is another reason why I'm done cutting for the year.

The good thing is the 18 - 20% moisture bales will keep, with a little TLC.

Larry


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

r82230 said:


> Josh, I think everyone is dead on, turn it after dew is off. I got the same situation, we are getting heavy dews (plus fog). Still have good forecasts for the next couple of days. As someone mentioned, the loss of daylight hours isn't helping. This is another reason why I'm done cutting for the year.
> 
> The good thing is the 18 - 20% moisture bales will keep, with a little TLC.
> 
> Larry


I'm a little hesitant of the 18-20%. I had some hay I baled earlier this year (before I bought my moisture probe) and that hay started getting dusty/moldy. After I bought my probe I tested it and they were around 16-18%. So I feel better when my grass is at the 13% range. I can't screw this hay up because I really need it for the sales, and I have customers waiting who are counting on it.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> Same issues here Josh.
> My ground is in a permanent state of "mud" this year. The vapors keep dampening the bottom of the windrow. Usually a little breeze and using my rake to prop the hay up in tall, vertical windrow helps.
> 
> One technique is utilizing your swather board so that it places the hay in the part of windrow where the grass is "dry", NOT on top of the swath where the previous windrow was laying because that swath is damp. In MY situation, my swather board is pulled in tight and only moves the hay about 2' to the left on drier ground.
> ...


I will have to high center my windrow (I think) since my rake is only 9', so it will move the windrow over half a rake width. But that is a good idea to pull the swath board in tight. I don't know that I would have thought about that.

I also second the high stubble. I mow at 3-4 inches for the reason you stated, also because my learnings from here have indicated it helps faster regrowth of grass. In the past I would have been greedy and mowed it as short as I could because that's what the guys with the discbines did.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

JD3430 said:


> Same issues here Josh.
> My ground is in a permanent state of "mud" this year. The vapors keep dampening the bottom of the windrow. Usually a little breeze and using my rake to prop the hay up in tall, vertical windrow helps.
> 
> One technique is utilizing your swather board so that it places the hay in the part of windrow where the grass is "dry", NOT on top of the swath where the previous windrow was laying because that swath is damp. In MY situation, my swather board is pulled in tight and only moves the hay about 2' to the left on drier ground.
> ...


JD, second the permanent state of mud.. that is the way it has been here most of the summer. We are over 50" now for the year to date, and got 32 last year. I know some of you guys in Pa got hammered worse that we have, think I heard you got about 16" one week in Aug. That just ain't right, ya know? I have the high stubble shoes but had to cut first cutting with the header tilted down due to lodging then had to do the same thing on second because it was lodged.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

I dislike cutting lower when I’m in a good patch. All it gets me is more “soda straw” in my hay


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

So I raked it after the dew was off today, around 2 pm. But when I checked them at 5, the top felt dry but then the hay in the bottom that was sitting on the ground was damp, so I’m not sure what to do.


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## HayMike (Mar 22, 2011)

I usually rake while it's still a little damp in the morning. If it's not dry mid-afternoon, rake it again. By 5, it's ready to dew again.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Another strategy I use as a last resort is to make a few round bales in middle of the field to create a wide "lane". Say 30-40' wide. Then I use my rake to make some smaller, thinner windrows in the lane.
They will dry down faster than a full, thick windrow


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Here's another question...I have the HT-PRO moisture meter. It says it is calibrated for 100% alfalfa so the more grass in the hay, the higher the reading than actual. It also said a tightly packed bale would have a higher reading than a loose bale. Does that actually mean a tighter bale is a more accurate result because it's measuring conductivity? And if I'm getting readings of 18-20%, should I go for it, if the actual is probably a little lower, or risk mold?


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

It depends if it's ground/dew/rain moisture or stem/leaf moisture.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Ah yes that was the question I was forgetting. This is almost certainly ground/dew moisture.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Hayjosh said:


> Does that actually mean a tighter bale is a more accurate result because it's measuring conductivity? And if I'm getting readings of 18-20%, should I go for it, if the actual is probably a little lower, or risk mold?


Tighter, better reading IMHO (if you want to do loose hay, Delmhorst has a probe for that type of measuring). 18-20% moisture was the same as I ran into yesterday :angry:, humidity won't let it dry any lower, see attach chart I marked up for this purpose. Today should be better, according to AWIS, you should have a low humidity of 54% today, just have to wait for the heavy dew to burn off. Looks like we got a couple more days that are favorable for making late season hay, too.

Larry


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Once the tropical storm gets past us and the soil changes from mud/puddles to wet dirt, it might be possible to get <20% readings again. Only thing is, with the days short and the heavy dew, production will be reduced by quite a bit.
God be with the people in Coastal Carolinas


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a couple of wagon loads of second cutting og that I made on the 26th of aug and left there while being overseas. the bales are heavy but seems like good quality hay. we had wet ground and I had to ted 3-4 times to get it dry. Bales that were most exposed to drizzle and fog while I was gone have mildew on the outside, not on the inside. What a year. Hooking up the bushhog to clip what is left. Have it sold and then some, just have no confidence I can make it with the ground moisture. The three days of sun they promise after the tropical storm goes through are all high humidity days with only one having NW winds. the other two days, east and south east. those winds never make hay here unless it is in the 90s in July. At least the moisture should help germination with overseeding.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

Well I baled it today. The grass itself was dry, there couldn't be any stem moisture left, but the ground is perpetually damp. Whatever is on the ground is going to be damp. I raked the rows again after dew was off. We had lots of heat, sunshine, even a little breeze...but I'll be damned if the bottom of the windrows were still damp! Baled one field and that hay felt fine, but not this particular field. I baled it up anyway because that was as dry as it was going to get. Of course my probe was giving me low battery (what the hell? Ive only used it a few times and flip the battery around when I'm not using it). A lot of the bales just have a damp feeling to them, so will see how it goes.


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## hayray (Feb 23, 2009)

We have had really high humidity in Michigan this week and high dew points. I cut Wednesday also and am just now baling. Does not matter what type of rake you use. This time of year you must wait for all the dew to dry off before taking. I cut mine and leave it lay until the day I will bale and then rake. I have been starting around 3 pm or latter this week.


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## JD3430 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hayjosh said:


> Well I baled it today. The grass itself was dry, there couldn't be any stem moisture left, but the ground is perpetually damp. Whatever is on the ground is going to be damp. I raked the rows again after dew was off. We had lots of heat, sunshine, even a little breeze...but I'll be damned if the bottom of the windrows were still damp! Baled one field and that hay felt fine, but not this particular field. I baled it up anyway because that was as dry as it was going to get.


I run into this often enough. I'll have "browned out" hay I had to give up on as feed hay and I'll rake it up, brown as paper bags, but if the ground is damp, it'll still read 20-25%.


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## Hayjosh (Mar 24, 2016)

JD3430 said:


> I run into this often enough. I'll have "browned out" hay I had to give up on as feed hay and I'll rake it up, brown as paper bags, but if the ground is damp, it'll still read 20-25%.


 Yep, that's about right where mine were reading today.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

I cant get a damned window wide enough... so we cut early, ted rake up before dark so we have dry spots to ted over after dew lifts and ted out next day ted at noon and rake about 3pm followed with baler and preservative. This is all I can do right now.
Bales are freekin' heavy too! 
Every year second cut is moister than normal, I like first cut at roughly 15% second usually always comes in around 18-22% on my meter and it is usually pretty darned nice with out any mold or dust to it. Its the edge bales I get nervous about, those get fed out right away so at least they are not wasted.
This is my first year trying the preservative and I need to get a set of smaller nozzles, the ones I have are too large and put more juice on than I want. 
I'm using Cropsaver and juicing at 8lbs a ton so roughly a gallon per ton. I think this is kind of heavy but not sure as it is a learning curve! NO ONE around my parts uses preservatives so I'm going out on a limb for sure.


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## javafarmbatavia (Jan 28, 2016)

Recommended application rate for Stem moisture of 16-22% for small and round bales for Nuhn Forages "The Juice" is 4lbs./ton, 6lbs./ton for large squares... Pending on the moisture percentage you may want to either back off the pressure(if possible) or like you said change tips.


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

skyrydr2 said:


> I cant get a damned window wide enough... so we cut early, ted rake up before dark so we have dry spots to ted over after dew lifts and ted out next day ted at noon and rake about 3pm followed with baler and preservative. This is all I can do right now.
> Bales are freekin' heavy too!
> Every year second cut is moister than normal, I like first cut at roughly 15% second usually always comes in around 18-22% on my meter and it is usually pretty darned nice with out any mold or dust to it. Its the edge bales I get nervous about, those get fed out right away so at least they are not wasted.
> This is my first year trying the preservative and I need to get a set of smaller nozzles, the ones I have are too large and put more juice on than I want.
> I'm using Cropsaver and juicing at 8lbs a ton so roughly a gallon per ton. I think this is kind of heavy but not sure as it is a learning curve! NO ONE around my parts uses preservatives so I'm going out on a limb for sure.


If you need assistance with calibrating your system, give us a call at 320-252-8999, or quote this and provide the information that we request. In order to help you calibrate, there are 3 things we will need to know.

1: Bale Weight

2: How Long it takes to make a bale (in seconds or minutes) - if you prefer, you can let us know how long it takes to make X amount of bales. Only count the time that you are feeding in hay

3: Application rate - you already covered this with 8 lbs per ton (we recommend doing just what you do, consider 8 lbs a gallon. - this is a slightly high application rate, but not by much)

4: How many nozzles are you using to apply

If we have this information, we should be able to help you out.

If you are not using one of our applicators, if you can share a photo of the filter system, that is helpful. If we drop to too small of nozzle, we may have to get you to swap out your filter screen in order to properly protect the nozzles. You could install finer nozzle screens, but they are such a small surface area that they plug quickly. We do stock a wide variety of nozzles, including some very small ones - down to 1.2 GPH per nozzle (requires 200+ mesh filtration)


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks for the information I believe it may be a Dohrmann unit? It has 2 different tips on it . One is a 1.0 and the other is .5 . I had to block off the 1.o it was putting out way too much and even the .5 is a lot.
I'm running a 575 at 450 rpm and 1.5 mph . I turn the spayer on and off when needed so I dont waste the stuff. I think smaller nozzles would work better as would a separate solenoid valve for the outboard nozzle so it can be fired off only when needed.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

This pic was taken the day I got it. It has sense gotten an almost complete overhaul! All done during the peak of first cut and I'm still pissed about that, but it now works very good and I learned a lot in a real short time! And a good part of what I learned was from help here! So again I say thank you to all its been a challenge, but an enjoyable one, as I can see decent progress. 
I just need some sun dang it!


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

skyrydr2 said:


> Thanks for the information I believe it may be a Dohrmann unit? It has 2 different tips on it . One is a 1.0 and the other is .5 . I had to block off the 1.o it was putting out way too much and even the .5 is a lot.
> I'm running a 575 at 450 rpm and 1.5 mph . I turn the spayer on and off when needed so I dont waste the stuff. I think smaller nozzles would work better as would a separate solenoid valve for the outboard nozzle so it can be fired off only when needed.


Hi skyrydr2. This is not one of our systems, it appears to be a spot spray that has been modified for application on a baler. With regards to calibration, that does not matter.

Unfortunately, your RPM and ground speed does not matter regarding setting up a hay applicator. This is because we are treating weight, not ground. If you can get us the information requested in our earlier post, we can help you calibrate this system.

I would also suggest moving your nozzles. I will do my best to explain how we recommend the set up.

1: The innermost nozzle, should be close to the corner of the face of the baler - near where the hay and the chamber meet. This nozzle should be spraying at an angle downward and the bracket should be twisted so that it also sprays at an angle toward the chamber. This will provide a wider "blanket" of spray for the hay to go under. This way if you are using 1 nozzle, most of the hay will pass under this "blanket"

2: The other nozzle should be 8-12 inches toward the outside of the baler from this one.

I have attached a photo of our Small Square baler nozzle tube and the nozzle locations are circled.

Right now, with your nozzles so far to the outside, any hay that is coming up between the innermost nozzle and the baler is not going to be getting product on it.

I hope this will help you out. Again, if we can get the bale weight, time to make a bale, application rate per ton...we can help you determine what nozzles to use.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Ok normally I make a 50lb bale between 34"-36" long and try for 250 per hour. Second cut is 60-75 lbs because of the extra moisture and because the grass is leafy I am lucky to get 200 per hour. Bales have more flakes to the bale than normal because the stuff packs tighter.
So for tonnage I would say 65#x 150 bales =9750lbs or 4.875 tons of hay per hour.


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

skyrydr2 said:


> Ok normally I make a 50lb bale between 34"-36" long and try for 250 per hour. Second cut is 60-75 lbs because of the extra moisture and because the grass is leafy I am lucky to get 200 per hour. Bales have more flakes to the bale than normal because the stuff packs tighter.
> So for tonnage I would say 65#x 150 bales =9750lbs or 4.875 tons of hay per hour.


Perfect

Based on this information, and your math is correct, if we value 8 lbs/ton as a gallon, you are looking for 4.8 (rounding down to compensate slightly for the product being more than 8 lbs/gallon) gallons per hour of application.

If you stick with 2 nozzles there are a couple of options for you.

1: Run 2 Size 067 nozzles @ 15 psi - in stainless steel these would be numbered 800067 (80 degree spray pattern) or 1100067 (110 degree spray pattern), they are color coded olive in thermoplastic

2: Run 2 Size 0050 nozzles @ 25 psi - these are not available in thermoplastic so you will need SST. Numbered 800050 (80 degree spray pattern) or 1100050 (110 degree pattern)

With the 0067 nozzle, I would suggest running a 80-100 mesh filter screen and for the 050 nozzle running a 200+ mesh filter screen

If you are comfortable dropping to 1 nozzle, you can run a 01 nozzle at 25 psi. This is a 8001 or 11001 and is color coded orange in thermoplastic.

These should get you in the ballpark of what you will need for application. Hopefully this will help you out.


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## skyrydr2 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks, I am dodging rain drops right now so I have a few days to make up a new "spray bar" with proper nozzles and angles to get max coverage. I think I might actually have some sst nozzles for a machine at work that fans hot water to wash material as it passes by . They are .005. If they don't work I'll order some from you folks. What thread do they have or are they held in with a nut?


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## DohrmannEnt (Nov 23, 2010)

skyrydr2 said:


> Thanks, I am dodging rain drops right now so I have a few days to make up a new "spray bar" with proper nozzles and angles to get max coverage. I think I might actually have some sst nozzles for a machine at work that fans hot water to wash material as it passes by . They are .005. If they don't work I'll order some from you folks. What thread do they have or are they held in with a nut?


The nozzles we carry are not the threaded type, they are held in with a nut. For agricultural application, I have not seen that small of a nozzle in the threaded body. I do believe that Spraying System does make them threaded through their industrial division.


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