# Rotary rake questions



## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hey folks,

Looking for opinions and advice on a potential rotary rake purchase before next spring. We run two NH rolabars now (256 and 258) and will probably trade or sell one and keep one as a backup for those days when two rakes are needed.

Pretty much have decided on either the Krone 42T, Kuhn 4220 or Pequea 1140. I have dealers for all three brands very close so that isn't an issue. It will mainly be used at the home farm so road travel width isn't a big concern.

I've read a lot of the past posts and comments on this subject but just wanted some more specific info and details.


On rotary rakes in general, with good care and maintenance and decent field conditions is there a rule of thumb on how long can they be expected to last? Mine would be raking 200+/- acres per year. 
Are any of the three brands/models I listed easier than the others when it comes to adjusting to different tractor drawbar heights? It would stay on one tractor most of the time but not always. 
Which brand will raise up the highest to clear windrows already raked up?
Are the Pequea rakes as reliable as the Krone/Kuhn models? I've read numerous comments on here about issues they have had, and have heard of several local people having issues with them as well. I know the later models are supposedly "fixed" but I've still heard of issues. Enough to make me forget about the Pequea all together were it not the lowest price of the three models - which keeps my interest up (and also because it's sold by the dealer I use most). 
If price wasn't a factor, which would be the best all-around rake to get? Based on what I've priced so far Krone is the priciest and Pequea the cheapest. 
Will I really notice a difference in drying time between the rolabars and a rotary? Mainly do timothy, OG and some alfalfa/clover/grass mixes.

Thanks for any advice.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Very good ? Trotwood, #1....really variable but my rotary (kuhn ga 6000) is over 10 yrs old, the former owner raked about 200 acres a year for 8 years before I purchased it, I rake about 90 acres a year with it, runs like a top, very little maintanence, just replaced several hydro lines (European style) that were leaking a bit last year.

# 2 as I haven't used others, I can only say mine is very easy via a crank adjustment on the front.
# 3 " " I can only say the kuhn will really get in the air, only the very highest of winrows are a problem, at which point I'm so happy that the yield is so good that I could care less if it grabs a bit as it goes by.....
# 4 from what I've heard, none real good, I would stick with kuhn, krone, claas
# 5 Krone
# 6 I've never used a rollabar, only wheel rakes, but similar principal....the rotary lays the hay in a beautiful winrow that allows air to circulate better, thus decreasing dry down...although that's not the primary reason for buying a rotary, something to consider...

Hope it helps and welcome to Haytalk


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

Trotwood2955 said:


> On rotary rakes in general, with good care and maintenance and decent field conditions is there a rule of thumb on how long can they be expected to last? Mine would be raking 200+/- acres per year.
> Good care and maintenance, decent field conditions and a good OPERATOR and they will last a long time. I have seen both ends of the spectrum on life expectancy. All the models that you are looking at should be durable given the above.
> Are any of the three brands/models I listed easier than the others when it comes to adjusting to different tractor drawbar heights? It would stay on one tractor most of the time but not always.
> I think all you have to do is change the tilt of the rotor to match the drawbar height. The overall raking height should not have to be adjusted when you change tractors.
> ...


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Stay away from the Pequea , I have had major problems with ours and many neighbors have also. Problems with the rotor shaft and rotor gear box. Very expensive repairs.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have the Krone 38T-love it. I don't have experience with the other two, but did look at all before I bought the Krone-just thought it was the best made heaviest frame. TAKE OFF YOUR 3PT arms. Am currently paying for my silly behavior of not doing so and bending my pto shaft. I traded in a 258 dolly- can't believe the difference in drying with the rotary rake- also does not bunch up on turnbacks and corners like the rolobar rakes- seems like they make a knot worse each pass and the rotaries make them better by spreading them out each pass. The Krone gets up pretty high so I have not had an issue with running over a windrow. It also rolls a windrow forward nicely (if you are making multiple passes per windrow in second or third cut). I have not used it in first cutting yet but given the fluff factor I can't imagine I will want to rake two passes per windrow.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

You will be very happy going with a rotary rake. We have a Kuhn 4120th. It's a joy to rake with compared to a rollabar. The only complaint I have is the height, if the hay is questionable I will swing the curtain in tight to get the wind row to stand tall to get as much air circulation as possible. Rolling over these wind rows can leave a mess. As said above however not that big of a deal.

I would question however doing 200+ acres with a single, a double would get 200 acres done a lot faster. Unless you are doing a lot of small odd shaped fields as I do.

It would help if you put you location into your profile.

Lastly Welcome to the forum!


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

200 acre sped cutting or 50 acres x 4? That's a lot of hay to rake one row at a time. Although from my understanding a rotary doesn't offer a fast of a ground speed as a wheel rake, it's still faster than a bar rake.


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## somedevildawg (Jun 20, 2011)

DSL brings up a point that I omitted, mine is double basket......it would help trotwood if you would put your location in your profile....down here you could not manage with a single on that much ground....well, you could, but damn if I would.....but we cut 5 times a year, fella I bought it from was in Arkansas, they prolly cut 4-5 times as well. Time is money...in more ways than one! Now I also know that a double will have a way of "breaking the bank" so if you don't cut that 200 but 1 maybe 2 times....perhaps....HERE I would have to opt for a wheel rake purely for the speed if I had to chose....fortunately I don't, I found a good deal on a used one.....but that's my modus operandi..


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips. We will do 200+/- acres for the entire year, counting later cuttings. We usually won't do anymore than 15 acres/day and very rarely will run both rolabars at the same time so capacity-wise the single rotary is what we we need. Can't justify (or want to pay for) a double rotary and no interest in going back to a wheel rake.

Clearance height on raked up windrows isn't a major problem, asked more out of curiosity. I figure as far as driving goes we would operate similar to the rolabars which you obviously can't pick up and cut across rows anyway. Just thought the higher clearance might come in handy on odd shaped fields and short rows.

Hayman1 - do you feel like you gave up any capacity going from a 258 to the 38T? Based on what i've read of the specs and actual clean sweep raking width I thought the 38T might actually be a bit less capacity width-wise than the 256 we have now, much less the 258. First cutting wouldn't be an issue really since we usually put 1.5-2 windrows together (at least for round baling) but mainly on later cuttings, even between the 256 and 258 the extra foot makes a difference when you are putting 2-3 passes (tedded out) together. I know these rakes have wide "working widths" but I was looking more at clean sept width. We are in VA also so I need to be able to completely turn/move all the hay into the windrow and not leave any unturned or there will be drying problems.


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## Josh in WNY (Sep 7, 2010)

Not trying to talk you out of a rotary rake, but did you consider a tandem hitch for your rolabars? I run two 258 NH rakes on a tandem hitch and don't think that switching to a single rotary would be worth the money or the increased time in the field (but that is what works for my operation). I only do 2 cuttings of about 35 acres a year (right now) and can cover a lot of hay with the tandem hitch setup in a short amount of time.

However, if I were to replace my current setup, I would have to take a long hard look at a twin rotary rake, even though it would probably be more money than I would want to spend.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Josh -

Have thought about tandem hitch before, but with some of our smaller or odd shaped fields I really think it would get a bit tricky to operate. And really a switch from rolabar to rotary for us is more about windrow quality and drying time than capacity and speed. We very rarely run both rolabars at the same time now, usually only have one in the field - so replacing with one single rotary won't be a change. And we will probably keep one of the rolabars so on those few days when we do want to run two rakes at a time we will still have that option.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Thanks for all the tips. We will do 200+/- acres for the entire year, counting later cuttings. We usually won't do anymore than 15 acres/day and very rarely will run both rolabars at the same time so capacity-wise the single rotary is what we we need. Can't justify (or want to pay for) a double rotary and no interest in going back to a wheel rake.
> 
> Clearance height on raked up windrows isn't a major problem, asked more out of curiosity. I figure as far as driving goes we would operate similar to the rolabars which you obviously can't pick up and cut across rows anyway. Just thought the higher clearance might come in handy on odd shaped fields and short rows.
> 
> Hayman1 - do you feel like you gave up any capacity going from a 258 to the 38T? Based on what i've read of the specs and actual clean sweep raking width I thought the 38T might actually be a bit less capacity width-wise than the 256 we have now, much less the 258. First cutting wouldn't be an issue really since we usually put 1.5-2 windrows together (at least for round baling) but mainly on later cuttings, even between the 256 and 258 the extra foot makes a difference when you are putting 2-3 passes (tedded out) together. I know these rakes have wide "working widths" but I was looking more at clean sept width. We are in VA also so I need to be able to completely turn/move all the hay into the windrow and not leave any unturned or there will be drying problems.


TW- as far as I am concerned, I gained capacity with the 38T over the 258-Krone-you can send my check now  Here is the deal- the 258 cavitates-it gets a harmonic vibration if you go too fast-it still rakes just sounds like it wants to come apart at the seams. You can go faster with the rotary than the 258 so I don't believe you are loosing any ground and it is a clean sweep-now my perception based on several weeks experience this late season is that because of the way the tines lift and rotate, you don't do as much "harrowing" raking clean with the rotary as you do with the bar rakes. I still have not done any first cutting but I had some fields this fall that I made 3 passes around and back flipped, others I did one one way, then flipped direction, did a double windrow then a clean join-handled all of that swimmingly and kept the windrow verticle and light.

I originally thought I wanted the 42. But I was up against budget questions and did not have an experience base in rotaries. I think some of the choice has to do with what discbine you are using and what tedder. I have a 1409 NH and have a 9-6 width, then the 17' Krone tedder. So, the 38T works just fine for taking one swath or two in two passes-rakes clean. If you are using different equipment and widths you may want a bigger rake. I am probably raking about what you are a year or slightly less. Usually cut 7-9 ac at a time first cutting as that fills all my wagons and I have to stop. I want it off the ground and in the barn- since you are rbing, you have different constraints or lack thereof.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Sounds like the 38T might be worth looking into - we run a 1410 discbine and 17 ft NH tedder, so basically the same size equipment as you. There was a pretty big price difference also in the 38 and 42 so that's always a plus!

And the bulk of what we do is first cutting anyway, which is mostly timothy. Even when round baling we usually don't combine two full windrows (more like 1.5) so the 38 I know would be fine for that compared with what we are running now.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm kind of with Josh on this. The rotary has it's drying advantages but so does the speed of the double rolabar. Less capital outlay too. I run a double now and make out well in small fields after a very short learning curve. Of course, I also have an agreement to buy a tandem rotary from the neighbors, but that's in part due to their wanting less for it than what it's worth. Can't go wrong!


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

I bought a Kuhn 4220 June 2013 working 40 acres (actual acres). I upgraded from a Kuhn 3200 (no hydraulic anything). I was looking at the Kuhn and Krone 38T. Not exactly comparing apples to apples (specs) but very close. Price was fairly close to each other. Kuhn dealer about 15 miles closer than Krone. Not saying I made a bad choice or wrong choice but after I upgraded my tedder to Krone 4 basket...I said to myself damn nice piece of equipment.

I believe my Kuhn manual says it has the potential to rake 10 acres/hour.

Good luck with your purchase.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Am I giving up much, if anything, performance-wise on a 38T with 10 arms vs. 42T with 13 or 4220 with 11? Would I need to run at higher rpms with the 38 vs. the others to rake the same amount of hay because of fewer arms?


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

I can't speak for krone, but can tell you that our 4120 is precision piece of equipment and it does what it's designed to do beautifully. I rarely run it at full RPM, to say that I never have looked back and thought, wow I wish I had another arm. Both brands have a lot of engineering behind them, every piece of equipment will have its falts and pluses. It may come down to price and service. As well as what sales desk you prefer to sit down at.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't want to run at full rpms, thats why I was asking - I was thinking I had read somewhere (probably here) that fewer arms = needed to run a little higher rpms to sweep the same amount of hay. I can't imagine it would make that much difference though.

Just wanted to double check. Really keep going back and forth between the Kuhn and Krone - both I'm sure would work fine for me. Just want to make the best decision because I want it to be the last rake I buy for quite a long time!

Kuhn dealer would actually be a little closer/more convenient for me and the price is lower - but the Krone machine is just built so much heavier and my in-laws have a Krone center delivery rotary and really love it (and went with it over Kuhn). But they also make more hay than I do and can more easily justify the heavier, more expensive brand.

Sure appreciate all the comments.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

DSLinc1017 said:


> I can't speak for krone, but can tell you that our 4120 is precision piece of equipment and it does what it's designed to do beautifully. I rarely run it at full RPM, to say that I never have looked back and thought, wow I wish I had another arm. Both brands have a lot of engineering behind them, every piece of equipment will have its falts and pluses. It may come down to price and service. As well as what sales desk you prefer to sit down at.


I agree with DSL- no max rpms- rotaries seem to be like art-you can do all sorts of things but very minor adjustments in pto speed, ground speed, and where you sit on the hay with the machine. Its fun learning. One thing I learned this fall was the different ways to build a windrow with different placements of the skirt and how fast you throw the hay at it-if you are careful, you can build a windrow that is much more vertical than horizontal and it stays in place unless you have 20mph winds.


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Am I giving up much, if anything, performance-wise on a 38T with 10 arms vs. 42T with 13 or 4220 with 11? Would I need to run at higher rpms with the 38 vs. the others to rake the same amount of hay because of fewer arms?


The narrower rake requires fewer arms due to its width. You won't notice.


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## weatherman (Dec 5, 2008)

Rake to the conditions, the amount of hay down. Like others, I never run at 540 rpm, slightly lower. When I was looking at the specs of both takes, 38t and 4220, I started to over think it. I also was looking at the 42t but it was slightly higher than what I wanted to spend for the amount of hay I make. I went with the Kuhn 4220 vs Krone 38t because of the extra arm and extra tine per arm. Good luck with your decision.


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## lfc (Jun 23, 2010)

I traded a pair of 256's and a tandem hitch for a 4220 four seasons ago, and never missed the 256's. In my small fields, I never had much luck with the tandem hitch as it seems I wasn't able to guarantee that I had rolled everything over the second time through.

The 4220 has performed flawlessly. The only "repairs" I made was to swap the straight grease zerks on the tine arms with 90 degree ones as it was hard to get the grease gun coupler in there with the straight fittings.

One thing to consider in the decision of the Krone vs the Kuhn is that the Kuhn throws to the right, the Krone to the left. I rake/bale in circles, so with the Kuhn I have to jump a windrow each time around when baling since I rake the "wrong way". Normally not a big deal, but I use a NH balewagon and therefore drop the bales on the ground. It seems that Murphy's Law dictates that a bale drop out of the baler just when jumping windrows, so the baler operator has to get off the tractor and move it out of the way. Something to consider at least.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks to everybody for all the help


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

The number of tine arms is probably more for reliability than performance. Tine loads can get quite high in heavy, high moisture hay on a machine with wide tine spacing.

MODEL # TINE ARMS ROTOR CIRCUMFERENCE (in.) TINE SPACING (in.)

Krone SW38T 10 368.27 36.83

Krone SW42T 13 415.48 31.96

Krone SW46T 13 440.00 33.84

Kuhn GA3200 9 327.35 36.37

Kuhn GA4220 11 396.60 36.05

Kuhn GA4521 13 453.25 34.86

Claas 370T 11 358.83 32.62

Claas 450T 12 434.37 36.19

Not a whole lot of difference between these... some models are getting up in to the 40+ range on spacing.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

krone.1 said:


> The number of tine arms is probably more for reliability than performance. Tine loads can get quite high in heavy, high moisture hay on a machine with wide tine spacing.
> 
> MODEL # TINE ARMS ROTOR CIRCUMFERENCE (in.) TINE SPACING (in.)
> Krone SW38T 10 368.27 36.83
> ...


Krone1, 
Thanks for the reminder, I was thinking earlier today, ( while away from the net). What about Claas?? the local JD is a dealer for them but I haven't heard much about their rakes, I see a lot of their larger harvesters around.. 
Any one have any experience with their rakes or balers?


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## shadycreek007 (Nov 11, 2013)

I run the JD rollabars, 670 and 671 together, covers about 23 feet in a pass and makes pretty good windrows, I like this set-up because I usually just use my truck to rake hay with. I only do about 150 acres yearly now, have used wheel rakes of various brands and power bar rakes ( vermeer) when I baled for others, but changed to this set-up and never went back. Now I did look like a choo-choo train pulling two rakes and a 2 wheel tandem hitch down the highway shoulder. My thoughts on original question, is for 200 acres, I wouldn't invest too much in other rakes. The 256 and 258 is a good combo.


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## Tkekic (Sep 16, 2013)

A year ago I traded in a Lely 300 three point rake/tedder and bought a Pequea 1140. While the Lely did ok I was never really happy with it. My field is not flat like a pool table. Have some hills and in spots it is bumpy. The Lely could not be lifted high enough to insure that the wheels did not catch on the ground when I turned. I love the 1140 and the fact that it is a pull behind allows tighter turns without destroying the equipment. It cleans the field very well and the windrows are good and fluffy. It does well at a lower PTO speeds and I can move at a good rate of mph. I too have a NH256 and my problem with it is that when the hay is very thick the 256 did not fluff the windrow up enough. It does not lift the hay but rather seems to roll it and this did not allow for fast drying. I still have it and do use it when the hay is thin.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Not to keep bringing up an old topic, but have some more rake questions. Still shopping around for a rotary rake before spring. Had pretty much settled on the Krone 42T or Kuhn 4220/4221. Probably leaning more towards the Kuhn because of price and dealer trade value on one of my rolabars.

But I have just talked to some local people who have had good luck with their Pequea 1140s and got me to thinking about them (partly because of the price and the dealer by far has the best trade value on my 258). For those of you who have had problems with them - frame, main shaft, etc. - have these problems been fixed over the past couple years on the newer models? I also understand they make their own gearbox now, has that helped?

Also have come across a used Victor 115 (exact same as MillerPro 1150) in great condition. Had planned to buy new but this rake really looks to be in good shape. Any thoughts on the MillerPro rakes compared to the other models I mentioned?


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

I own a Pequea 1140....bought it new in 2012. Before I bought the rake, I had been told about gearbox/frame problems by some previous owners. I called Pequea and talked to management and they went in great detail about what kind of problems they had with the 1140(gearbox) and what they had done to change manufacturing(make their own gearbox now). They made great effort to assure me that I would be completely satisfied. So, after more contemplation I bought one. I have not had any problems so far...and I am thoroughly satisfied with the operation. It is very well built.

Now, we have members on this site that are thoroughly disgusted with their Pequea rakes that most likely had the import gearbox. I don't blame them a bit....I would be miffed too. Pequea told me they are trying to make things right with those owners, but some of our trusted members say they have not gotten satisfaction and that they would never own a Pequea again......and again, I don't blame them. I don't know if the reason they have not gotten satisfaction is them not wanting to deal with repair situation or if their local dealer is being a jerk about the situation. Either way, it is a unfortunate situation for both parties.

I expect Pequea will have to deal with this unflattering publicity for many years....and I expect it is certainly partly their fault for being slow to respond to change(gearboxes)....but I do think their present product is sound. I bought mine out of PA and had it shipped to TN because I could do so and still save $1500 over what the local co-op and another dealer here in TN wanted in price. I really like the way my 1140 rakes.....and it is American made.....but that doesn't have the clout that it once did. But I still prefer to buy American if I can do so without hurting my situation.

Regards, Mike


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The Miller Pros had a gearbox change mid-production on the 1150. See if you can find out which one it has. The neighbors had their early-model box get ground up and you can no longer get parts for it. Instead, you buy an updated gearbox... To the tune of over $4000.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

8350 - Good to know on the MillerPro. I am guessing it might have the older gearbox, but might try to nail that down. It was traded back into the dealership that sold it new and just offhand the salesman was pretty sure it was 6-7 years old. It looks to be in great shape but the salesman did say it would probably be a better backup rake than a primary rake, for whatever that is worth.

Vol - thanks for the info. I do like how heavy built the Pequea is. I believe they are about the heaviest in that size except for the Krone. The dealership that sells them is also the main dealer I use and is locally owned, which I like a lot. Compared to the dealership that sells Kuhn that is a multi-state mega dealer...I really like the Kuhn rakes, and sure haven't been able to find any negative comments about them but they just seem so much lighter made than other brands.

One of the people I talked to is a family member and they say their Pequea (at least several years old now) is the best rotary they've had. They first had a MillerPro and then a Krone. They said they had the Krone 2 years and had nothing but issues with it (frame issues I believe). I think that is about the first negative comments I've heard on a Krone.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

Vol, you are probably correct. I believe the 3 Pequea's I had , had the imported gearboxs. I was unaware that they started making their own now. I complained a lot to my dealer, and they pretty much said we were bad operators. Last year I had a pto clutch go out on a the Friday before 4th of July, dealer parts man told it would be 6 days before I could get the clutch, I ask if I could go to Pequea's manufacting plant and pick ( which is about an hour away and I new I could) He just looked at me stupid and couldn't understand why I needed sooner. I told him I "UNDERSTOOD" and walked out and went to amish shop and got a clutch. The following week I traded both pequeas.


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## DSLinc1017 (Sep 27, 2009)

Just goes to show how important a good dealer can help form your desition on what brand to purchase. Some business just don't understand how important EVERY customer is. In the end its not the dude at the parts counter its the owner at the top that isn't paying attention or just doesn't care. I've purchased a tractor and rake from a dealer in Minnesota just because of better service and pricing than from the dealer down the street. I went to the owner and pointed this out, he couldn't understand why. I turned around and told him if he didnt understand why that's his first problem.

So as for your question on rake brands.....


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## urednecku (Oct 18, 2010)

Purchased my 'Bota from a dealer 60 miles away instead of the one 14 miles down the road. I went in & said I need to talk to somebody about buying a tractor, the lady @ the desk said they will be right here. 20 minutes later I left, figured they didn't need to sell 1 if they couldn't even come out to talk to me.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Bob M said:


> I complained a lot to my dealer, and they pretty much said we were bad operators.


That would have been the "end of it" for me also Bob. If I had a dealer treat me with that kind of disregard, I would go out of my way to inform others of their service and the product performance that I had bought from their outfit.

Regards, Mike


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## slowzuki (Mar 8, 2011)

While not right to be critical of an owner to his face, our dealer is quite honest about the equipment he has out. He doesn't name names but if he has 10 machines out and one farmer that breaks everything he uses breaks his and everyone else is ok, he'll let you know. If they are all falling apart he'll let you know too.


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## Bob M (Feb 11, 2012)

In our case it was a smart ass young service manager. We were one of the first in our area to buy the pequea rakes and we run more ac the most everyone else around us, so ours were the first to break. Even before pequea knew of the problem.


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Besides the other reasons, dealer support is one of the reasons I came back around to considering the Pequea. Both because of service and they are my main dealer and because they seem by far the most willing to "deal" on trade/price. The Krone dealer's trade offer on my 258 was almost insulting and really turned me off from wanting to deal with them. I know I was a new customer to them but at the same time if I was a dealership I would be trying to get a new customer in the door on that first sale because you never know what might come later...my main dealer (that carries the Pequea) has always treated me well, even from the first time I walked in the door and seem to try to cater to all their customers regardless of size.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Besides the other reasons, dealer support is one of the reasons I came back around to considering the Pequea. Both because of service and they are my main dealer and because they seem by far the most willing to "deal" on trade/price. The Krone dealer's trade offer on my 258 was almost insulting and really turned me off from wanting to deal with them. I know I was a new customer to them but at the same time if I was a dealership I would be trying to get a new customer in the door on that first sale because you never know what might come later...my main dealer (that carries the Pequea) has always treated me well, even from the first time I walked in the door and seem to try to cater to all their customers regardless of size.


TW-I had the same experience on trade value from probably the same dealer chain as you. It was insulting. Was in excellent shape with dollywheel. Dealer said you could not give a 258 away anymore. So, always had good luck at Messicks in Pa so went there and they gave me the best price on a Krone and the best trade value going away on my 163tedder and 258 rake. It is worth calling them unless you are just set on Pequea.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Trotwood2955 said:


> Besides the other reasons, dealer support is one of the reasons I came back around to considering the Pequea. Both because of service and they are my main dealer and because they seem by far the most willing to "deal" on trade/price.


That's some pretty good reasons.

Regards, Mike


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## Trotwood2955 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hayman - probably was the same dealer. And my 258 was also a dolly wheel, late model, nice condition. I may check with Messicks some more if I get back to thinking the Krone route (change my mind about every day  ). I actually sent them one of the online info requests a month or so ago just out of curiosity, they got back with me very quickly and while their cash price on the 42T was a couple hundred higher than the local dealer their trade offer was over 2x as high, sight unseen no pictures or anything on the 258 (and the local dealer even sent somebody out to look it over - I would hate to have heard their sight unseen offer). So even before you figure in any haggling and paying to haul it down here Messicks were going to be cheaper on a net basis.


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## happyfarmer (Sep 10, 2014)

Good morning all. I have just purchased a Krone 38T and want to run it with small tractor. NH TC55. If I use stationary drawbar I'm to close to PTO And rake frame to make nice tight 180° turns at the head of the field. The PTO u joint at the tractor binds some and the PTO does not have enough telescoping left to be ideal.

So I notice in the manual they use a universal bar in the three point arms. I dug one out and it seems to be the ticket for PTO distance and it's impossible to hit tires on rake. I think.

Anyone else do it this way?
Or see a down side?
Thanks in advance!


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

It has been a while since I purchased my 38T but as I recall, they are designed and assembled primarily for use as mounted, not towed-general condition in Europe. I believe that the dealer cut some of the pto shaft off to ease the binding situation. Check with Krone1,, a fellow HT, he will have the scoop


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

The only downside is that it leaves open the possibility of bumping the 3pt lift and ruining your PTO shaft. Just make sure it's locked somehow.


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## krone.1 (Jul 28, 2013)

Hi Mr. HappyFarmer. 8350HiTech pretty much nailed it! Those spreader bars really do a good job redistributing the wealth. Its just sooooo easy to grab the wrong lever and the pto shaft won't ever win.

That and the fact that if you don't have a way to lock the hitch, your rake won't stay level. We show them being used in some of the literature..... but I'm NOT going to use one on anything with a PTO shaft.

Some of this is basic so i'm including it for future reference. Is the length of the drawbar correct? If I recall, it is supposed to be 14 inches from the end of the tractor pto shaft to the center of the drawbar hole on 540 rpm and 16 inches on 1000 rpm. Also the pto length is very important so that it doesn't bottom out in a turn.

The only time I've noticed any chatter on a 38T is doing a super tight turn with the unit raised all the way up.

They come equipped with a cv joint on the tractor end. Is is possible that your rake has the wrong pto shaft on it?

Also,,,, since your aren't going to be using a spreader bar (hopefully) be sure the lower links are up out of the way so they behave and don't damage the pto shaft when turning. Rude lower link arms make a lot of boat payments for Waltersheid and Bondioli execs.... Good Luck


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

happyfarmer said:


> Good morning all. I have just purchased a Krone 38T and want to run it with small tractor. NH TC55. If I use stationary drawbar I'm to close to PTO And rake frame to make nice tight 180° turns at the head of the field. The PTO u joint at the tractor binds some and the PTO does not have enough telescoping left to be ideal.
> 
> So I notice in the manual they use a universal bar in the three point arms. I dug one out and it seems to be the ticket for PTO distance and it's impossible to hit tires on rake. I think.
> 
> ...


You might want to pin the 3pt hitch bar into the tongue of the other machine to determine if you will be losing way more turning than you are gaining. If I am thinking about the right hitch (the bar-type that spans the two arms), it presents its own set of problems.
Depending on how deep the throat is in the tongue, they will not turn very far before the tongue gets into the bar. The words to explain it elude me right now, but I will attempt to attach a rough illustration. The easies thing to do, would be to pin the hitch onto the tongue and see how far it will rotate.
I tore up the hitch on my planter that way!!!









Mark


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## happyfarmer (Sep 10, 2014)

I will confirm PTO to drawbar hole length but it still will contact PTO shaft or rake frame in a tight turn, in either of the drawbar length holes

I can lock the 3 point lift control to prevent accidental movement and to maintain rotor level.

I like the fact that there is no opportunity for tires to hit PTO shaft or frame. 
It really seems better than drawbar on this little tractor. I'll try and get a pic

Is the 350-450 mm min sticker apply to the amount of overlap the two PTO shafts need to prevent twisting?

Thanks for all the help!


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## 8350HiTech (Jul 26, 2013)

As long as you can lock your 3pt lever, you're fine. I pull my tedder using the lift link bar and it works just fine. I also have stops on the lift lever so I can't accidentally move it.


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## Vol (Jul 5, 2009)

Some of the electronic lifts cannot be "totally" locked....like on my M series Deere. I was tedding hay last year and wheeled around to look over my right shoulder and brushed across the lift switch control with my right hand and before you could say "sold", I crunched the pto shaft.....which I had just replaced with a new one 4 months previous. Lucky for me, I just bent the pto end which remarkably straightened quite nicely on a press.

Regards, Mike


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## mlappin (Jun 25, 2009)

krone.1 said:


> Also,,,, since your aren't going to be using a spreader bar (hopefully) be sure the lower links are up out of the way so they behave and don't damage the pto shaft when turning. Rude lower link arms make a lot of boat payments for Waltersheid and Bondioli execs.... Good Luck


If you must use your lift arms then use a chain on each one up to your top link mount, then wire or fasten your 3 point hitch lever to the all the way down position and use the chains to level the hitch/PTO, this is how two point swivel hitch mowers do it.

Far as unused lift arms, I take em clear off, less chance of ever dinging a hitch or PTO shaft, definitely less chance of banging your knees on em as well if they are in the shed somewhere.


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## Hayman1 (Jul 6, 2013)

And, then you can just do what those of us have experienced machine bent shafts courtesy of 3 pto arms-take the dang 3pt arms off from May-oct. problem solved


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## FarmerCline (Oct 12, 2011)

I used to have a Krone 46t rake and I had to cut the driveshaft to shorten it so it wouldn't bottom out....don't remember how much I cut off but it was a good bit.


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