# off farm employment



## OhioHay

I read the other day that there are 75,000 farms in Ohio and only 4,000 of them don't have any kind of off farm income. So neither spouse works away. I don't know if this would include stuff like seed dealerships or custom work. Wondered what everyone thought about these stats?


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## somedevildawg

OhioHay said:


> I read the other day that there are 75,000 farms in Ohio and only 4,000 of them don't have any kind of off farm income. So neither spouse works away. I don't know if this would include stuff like seed dealerships or custom work. Wondered what everyone thought about these stats?


That seems about right to me for Georgia as well....


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## cornshucker

About right percentage for our area of NC I think. Can think of only one Family in our area that not at least one of them does some form of off farm employment.


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## Vol

cornshucker said:


> About right percentage for our area of NC I think. Can think of only one Family in our area that not at least one of them does some form of off farm employment.


Same here....only can think of one family here that does no off farm work and they are all on disability(fat ass version) and what ever else the patriarch can steal.

Regards, Mike


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## haybaler101

Even the biggest of the BTO's here have spouses working off the farm. HEALTH INSURANCE seems to be the main culprit. I know my family would do just fine without off farm work, but my sales job keeps us insured.


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## NewBerlinBaler

A related thought...

A few months ago, the wife & I looked into buying a multi-family building that's up for sale in town. It needs some work but then we'd rent it out & become landlords. The rental market around here is strong. After we did the research, the investment turns out to be way better than keeping our nest-egg in the bank earning a whopping 2%.

But here's the really sobering thing: if I took the money that's currently tied up in farmland & machinery and used it to buy rental properties, I'd earn about four times what the farm earns - and I wouldn't have to do any work ! Really makes me wonder about farming,

Has anyone else looked into what your capital could do for you if it was invested elsewhere? It's eye opening to look at the options.

Gary


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## Vol

NewBerlinBaler said:


> Has anyone else looked into what your capital could do for you if it was invested elsewhere? It's eye opening to look at the options.
> 
> Gary


Certainly.....but there is more to farming than just making money.....I make money in my day job....I farm to help relieve the stress of my day job. If a individual is serious about full time farming, you need to move to the mid-west.

Regards, Mike


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## Teslan

NewBerlinBaler said:


> A related thought...
> 
> A few months ago, the wife & I looked into buying a multi-family building that's up for sale in town. It needs some work but then we'd rent it out & become landlords. The rental market around here is strong. After we did the research, the investment turns out to be way better than keeping our nest-egg in the bank earning a whopping 2%.
> 
> But here's the really sobering thing: if I took the money that's currently tied up in farmland & machinery and used it to buy rental properties, I'd earn about four times what the farm earns - and I wouldn't have to do any work ! Really makes me wonder about farming,
> 
> Has anyone else looked into what your capital could do for you if it was invested elsewhere? It's eye opening to look at the options.
> 
> Gary


Yes I've thought about it. I own a farm that is worth about $1 million. It is currently rented out for $30,000 gross a year. I'm going to farm it myself after next season. However if I went to town and bought 5 $200,000 homes and charged $1300 rent a month I would gross $78,000. But then would have to deal with 5 renters instead of 1. Those are just basic thoughts with lots of other variables to consider. I however will earn nearly twice that gross farming it. Just goes to show that around here farmland isn't that great of an investment compared to other things.

However you must consider that owning rentals is NOT work free. There will always be something.


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## urednecku

From what I have seen & heard, renters are to landlords as horsey people are to hay suppliers.


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## haybaler101

Depends on the type of farming. Borrowed a million dollars to build turkey barns. Paid back 75 grand in principle this year and cleared that much more over expenses and covered 450 acres with 4 ton of manure at 38-32-32 per ton.


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## deadmoose

NewBerlinBaler said:


> A related thought...
> 
> A few months ago, the wife & I looked into buying a multi-family building that's up for sale in town. It needs some work but then we'd rent it out & become landlords. The rental market around here is strong. After we did the research, the investment turns out to be way better than keeping our nest-egg in the bank earning a whopping 2%.
> 
> But here's the really sobering thing: if I took the money that's currently tied up in farmland & machinery and used it to buy rental properties, I'd earn about four times what the farm earns - and I wouldn't have to do any work ! Really makes me wonder about farming,
> 
> Has anyone else looked into what your capital could do for you if it was invested elsewhere? It's eye opening to look at the options.
> 
> Gary


If you can make that for nothing good for you. Everyone I know who went into rental with that thought lost lots of money in the process of deciding it is not for them. I know a handful who have done quite well. But they bought right, worked every spare day or hour improving and still deal with the hassle, phone calls, and repairs weekly if not daily.


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## PaMike

IT really depends on your area, and the type of property you buy. I have a 10 year old townhome that I used to live in. It has been rented out for 7 years now. I get enough rent to pay both the mortgage and taxes, I did put 20% down when I bought it so the mortgage isn't that big. Tenant does all the yard and snow removal. I average one appliance replacement a year, and one service call by a plumber or HVAC guy. Most tenants stay about 2.5 years. Townhomes are in demand in my area, so it is usually empty about 1.5 months between tenants. Last tenant wanted to move in so bad, I told her she can move in right away but then I wont have time to pain the place. She didn't care. I have gotten over 75K in rent in 7 years. I put 26K down when I bought the house and have about 800-1000 a year in expenses. In a few years the house will be paid for, and its valued at 150K.

You cant tell me that wasn't a good investment.


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## Teslan

PaMike said:


> IT really depends on your area, and the type of property you buy. I have a 10 year old townhome that I used to live in. It has been rented out for 7 years now. I get enough rent to pay both the mortgage and taxes, I did put 20% down when I bought it so the mortgage isn't that big. Tenant does all the yard and snow removal. I average one appliance replacement a year, and one service call by a plumber or HVAC guy. Most tenants stay about 2.5 years. Townhomes are in demand in my area, so it is usually empty about 1.5 months between tenants. Last tenant wanted to move in so bad, I told her she can move in right away but then I wont have time to pain the place. She didn't care. I have gotten over 75K in rent in 7 years. I put 26K down when I bought the house and have about 800-1000 a year in expenses. In a few years the house will be paid for, and its valued at 150K.
> 
> You cant tell me that wasn't a good investment.


Your taxes and insurance must be pretty cheap to only have $800-$1000 in expenses a year. Never mind your one appliance a year.


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## PaMike

Taxes, insurance, and mortgage costs are all covered by the tenants rent. The 800-1000 a year is the one appliance cost and the one service call.


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## Teslan

PaMike said:


> Taxes, insurance, and mortgage costs are all covered by the tenants rent. The 800-1000 a year is the one appliance cost and the one service call.


I guess I misunderstood your definition of expense. Because to me taxes, insurance, mortgage costs and whatever else are also expenses when considering the cashflow of a rental property.


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## JD3430

My dad was a better businessman than me. He had a couple rental apartment buildings in local small towns. I helped him fix the places up and we did a nice job on them.

After 5-7 years he sold them. the tenants are a PITA. They let sinks/toilets overflow, they waste common area heat & electric, they stole things, they had wild parties, cops were there, they tried to insinuate we didn't shovel steps after it snowed and pretended to have slip & fall accidents. Luckily, we never got sued. I saw what my old man went through and passed up on a few opportunities to buy rentals.

I'd go into the landlord business with my eyes wide open.


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## PaMike

Yeah, it can be a bear. My unit is a higher end "yuppie" unit so I dont have much of any problems. My buddy buys the cheap fixer uppers, then tries to rent them for more than they are worth. The only people who rent a unit for more than market value are people who have no money sense or people with no credit and are desperate. Either way its bad news. He now has 5 units in 4 towns. Four of the units are 50+ year old homes. At any given time he is kicking out at least one tenant. Between those issues and running from town to town fixing things he ties up a lot of time...


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## Teslan

PaMike said:


> Yeah, it can be a bear. My unit is a higher end "yuppie" unit so I dont have much of any problems. My buddy buys the cheap fixer uppers, then tries to rent them for more than they are worth. The only people who rent a unit for more than market value are people who have no money sense or people with no credit and are desperate. Either way its bad news. He now has 5 units in 4 towns. Four of the units are 50+ year old homes. At any given time he is kicking out at least one tenant. Between those issues and running from town to town fixing things he ties up a lot of time...


Every time I have ever seen anyone rent out their homes for more then the average rental rates, they always end up with problem renters. Every single time either something ruined or they have renters that miss payments or they end up having to evict. Which in turn more then costs more then that higher rent they shouldn't have been trying to get.


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## Bgriffin856

Thought about getting into it and might one day. Around here most tenants are ones that trash a place and move on to the next one


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## Bgriffin856

Dad worked for 20+ years that helped get us well established and now mom works for insurance and extra income. It's rather common here for atleast one person in a farm family to hold an off farm job.

Around here the only way to make a living farming is milking cows or inheriting grandpa's hard earned money and crop farm if your blessed with having good ground.


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## ARD Farm

NewBerlinBaler said:


> A related thought...
> 
> A few months ago, the wife & I looked into buying a multi-family building that's up for sale in town. It needs some work but then we'd rent it out & become landlords. The rental market around here is strong. After we did the research, the investment turns out to be way better than keeping our nest-egg in the bank earning a whopping 2%.
> 
> But here's the really sobering thing: if I took the money that's currently tied up in farmland & machinery and used it to buy rental properties, I'd earn about four times what the farm earns - and I wouldn't have to do any work ! Really makes me wonder about farming,
> 
> Has anyone else looked into what your capital could do for you if it was invested elsewhere? It's eye opening to look at the options.
> 
> Gary


I own rental properties (besides farm) and it's a PITA. I can tell you that from personal experience. Being a landlord is not at all rewarding simply because most renters have no respect for your property...because they don't own it. Not all, but most.

Maybe I don't have the demeanor for it but for now, I'm stuck with it. In retrospect, I should have invested the funds elsewhere...like more vacant. farmable land.

Oftentimes, renters are not only abusive to your property, they don't pay their rent promptly and legal recourse is involved to say the least. Just a heads up on what looks like a silk purse that can turn into a sows ear, real quick.


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## JMT

OhioHay said:


> I read the other day that there are 75,000 farms in Ohio and only 4,000 of them don't have any kind of off farm income. So neither spouse works away. I don't know if this would include stuff like seed dealerships or custom work. Wondered what everyone thought about these stats?


I think most households need two sources of income now days, not just a farm or agriculture thing. Not near as many stay at home moms anymore.


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## OhioHay

JMT said:


> I think most households need two sources of income now days, not just a farm or agriculture thing. Not near as many stay at home moms anymore.


That's a good point.


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## JD3430

Bgriffin856 said:


> Dad worked for 20+ years that helped get us well established and now mom works for insurance and extra income. It's rather common here for atleast one person in a farm family to hold an off farm job.
> Around here the only way to make a living farming is milking cows or inheriting grandpa's hard earned money and crop farm if your blessed with having good ground.


I would like to inherit some ground!!!


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## Teslan

It seems that households that even if one working person brings in a large amount of money the other person still works regardless if the income is needed or not. I find it interesting that a lot of you folks or your significant other work for health insurance. Is getting health insurance through a job that much cheaper or better then buying it on your own? I or my wife have never had employment that offered health insurance. We both have off farm income. I don't really call selling real estate work. It's very easy money for the time put into it, but can vary wildly in income from one year to the next.


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## urednecku

> I find it interesting that a lot of you folks or your significant other work for health insurance. Is getting health insurance through a job that much cheaper or better then buying it on your own?


For me & my family, for comparable ins. with what I had with the state, about $1200 per month cheaper.


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## deadmoose

JMT said:


> I think most households need two sources of income now days, not just a farm or agriculture thing. Not near as many stay at home moms anymore.


Your stay at home mom from 2014 does not compare to 1965 or whenever (in most cases). If said housewife stayed home cooked cleaned gardened sewed etc apples could be compared.


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## cornshucker

Vol said:


> Certainly.....but there is more to farming than just making money.....I make money in my day job....I farm to help relieve the stress of my day job. If a individual is serious about full time farming, you need to move to the mid-west.
> 
> Regards, Mike


Dead on right Mike. I pretty much have to work my job for insurance, but one of the perks of my job is a 4 day work week. We make money farming but probably not enough to live comfortably and pay insurance. I don't play golf (perfect waste of good pastureland) boat or any of these things. Lot rather be on tractor doing something its the way of life and quality of life that makes me want to stay in farming. Satisfaction of looking back and seeing a crop saved and a well done job worth more than money sometimes.


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## OhioHay

I think this is one place where farming is unique. I can't think of many other small businesses that are a stress relief from your day job.


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## OhioHay

Vol said:


> Certainly.....but there is more to farming than just making money.....I make money in my day job....I farm to help relieve the stress of my day job. If a individual is serious about full time farming, you need to move to the
> 
> Regards, Mike


I don't believe you have to live in the Midwest to make a good living at farming. Maybe if you are thinking of only corn and beans. You have to look at your location and ground and figure out what it is best suited for and then maximize that


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