# Bar rake versus v-rake



## BIGDOGSHAY (Oct 8, 2019)

Hi guys I'm new here but been farming my whole life and still have 100 acres of original farm where I've been making HAY for last 20 years but always used bar rakes. Now I'm starting my own CUSTOM HAY SERVICE and looking now to get a v-rake, anybody that has used a v rake or both can you tell me what you like and don't like?? Thank you for opinions..


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## glasswrongsize (Sep 15, 2015)

I have both. A "regular" V rake without center wheel does not turn the center hay in the windrow especially when tedded. If raking swaths from conditioner, it will put both sides in the empty spot in the middle and on dry ground.

I can rake with a V rake as fast as the field will allow whereas my bar rake will throw a windrow too wide if I drive too fast. I have the angle set at maximum on my bar rakes for the fluffiest windrow I can get and I don't have a problem with it "roping" the hay either.

On light cuttings, I don't tend to ted, but instead rake with a V rake early, then after it sets for a day or less, I bump every-other windrow towards each other with a bar rake (and I can still run a decent speed because I an going to rake it again.) After that sits for long enough, I run the V rake again and put the two windrows together onto dry/bar ground That seems to dry well and save some color.

Raking hay is my bottle neck on time generally get off from work and have to rake before I can bale; therefore, I like the speed of the V rake and like the consistent width of the windrow. Both rakes have their advantages.


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## BIGDOGSHAY (Oct 8, 2019)

See speed is my goal but can't diminish window quality too much, land here in SW Michigan is hilly that's why I was concerned about v-rake. Our old Massey bar rakes have done a good job but v-rake would allow me to cut way down on time in field, thanks


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

No rake can do it all. Side delivery bar rake is slow. V wheel rake tends to rope the crap out of alfalfa if you can't travel fast enough. V bar rake doesn't like very uneven ground very well. Rotary rakes have their own set of pros/cons.


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## BIGDOGSHAY (Oct 8, 2019)

Thanks for all your input, you told me kind of what I was thinking on v-rake. I prefer a bar rake but like you there slow and to double them to cut down on time is cumbersome thing all to itself..


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

Two years ago I went to a V rake and havent regretted in for a second. It does have some shortcomings like raking corners mediocre, roping sometimes, and raking "foreign material" into the hay.

But IMO all of those are offset by the speed at which you can cover ground, and the simplicity/low cost of the rake.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

How fast do you want to travel while raking? My brother has a Vermeer R2300 which is a V bar rake. It will run 8 mph comfortably, maybe faster. I like the windrows it makes in hay better than what my Rowse wheel rake makes. But the Rowse is perfectly happy at 13 mph in a smooth hayfield.


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## BIGDOGSHAY (Oct 8, 2019)

I was shooting for 7 to 10 mph and have seen some New Holland Procart 10 and 12 wheel v-rakes cruise through field and left nice windrow.


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## IHCman (Aug 27, 2011)

13mph? Wow thats fast raking. I can't imagine pulling a rake that fast. Usually pull our Rowse 20 wheel 4.5 to 5 mph even on a smooth field. Never know when you'll smack a badger hole.

I can probably count on one hand the times I've even baled at 10mph+ and it was usually straw.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Never had a V rake so I can only speak from observation; all V raking I've seen roped the windrows, now it may be OK for the owner to accept, but IF I was paying I'd want the good windrows a rotary makes, a rotary is still pretty fast compared to a bar rake. 2nd choice a bar rake. How many customers would you keep if the windows are roped? Speed vs quality never won. In the end only you can answer.


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## KS John (Aug 6, 2018)

Trillium Farm said:


> Never had a V rake so I can only speak from observation; all V raking I've seen roped the windrows, now it may be OK for the owner to accept, but IF I was paying I'd want the good windrows a rotary makes, a rotary is still pretty fast compared to a bar rake. 2nd choice a bar rake. How many customers would you keep if the windows are roped? Speed vs quality never won. In the end only you can answer.


Depending on the quality you desire. Here is a good study done by the University of Minnesota.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is a video of my brother's Vermeer rake in alfalfa. Run correctly there is really no roping.






Grass is much less prone to rope.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

I have no trouble keeping customers with my V rake. I would give them the option of A.) I can V rake your hay and get it done timely or B.) I will get all my productive V raked hay done first and come September I will have the time to single rotary or bar rake your hay.

If money was no object I would have a tandem rotary so I could double everything in 1 pass like I can with the V rake. But the money just isn't there for me to justify the initial expense and upkeep of a rotary again.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is another video of Vermeer twin rake windrows. Same rake as the video above.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

Glad to see that what I though was an equipment problem was instead an operator problem 

I imagine that those I saw must have travelled at a much higher speed and thereby cause roping, am I right?


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Roping is caused by too low of speeds.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

I had a 15 wheel H&S x-rake, could rake at around 8 MPH, from around 10' to 27.5' hay into a windrow. As other's have mentioned corners, turns, along with hills/valleys not being a strong point to v-rakes. The x-rake moved all the hay without a 'kicker' wheel (which may or may not be important to you, it was for me with alfalfa).

Still have a roll bar, it has it's own advantages/disadvantages (including around 5 MPH in MY case, for reason Mark mentions, windrow too wide).

Have a double rotary, has more pluses than minuses in MY case. The biggest handicap verses x-rake, max raking width of around 22' in light hay. The biggest advantage verses x-rake, max raking width is greater in heavy hay (laying down double windrows). Another advantage in real light hay over x-rake, I can double back and put almost 44' of hay into one windrow. All while raking around 8 MPH.

Never had a single rotary, but with double rotary you could have smaller rotors, therefore similar to a bar rake on gathering all the hay with hills/valleys. And handles the hay more gently.

A big disadvantage with wheel rakes in MY case, the amount of ash (dirt) in my hay is much higher, than a rotary or roll-bar rake. YMMV

If I had a rich uncle that just died, it would be great to have all three types of rakes in MY tool box, but my uncles were not rich. 

Larry


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

Rope making 101. Thin alfalfa and terrible rough ground which mandates slow speed. Look at how bad the 2 on one windrows are, and putting 4 on one wouldn't even get a decent windrow. Everything you see here was raked with my Rowse wheel rake. My brother did some of this field 2 on one with his Vermeer R2300 and the windrow is much nicer. Just a side note, powered bar V rakes will rake around a corner, mostly no problem.


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## Trillium Farm (Dec 18, 2014)

r82230 said:


> I had a 15 wheel H&S x-rake, could rake at around 8 MPH, from around 10' to 27.5' hay into a windrow. As other's have mentioned corners, turns, along with hills/valleys not being a strong point to v-rakes. The x-rake moved all the hay without a 'kicker' wheel (which may or may not be important to you, it was for me with alfalfa).
> 
> Still have a roll bar, it has it's own advantages/disadvantages (including around 5 MPH in MY case, for reason Mark mentions, windrow too wide).
> 
> ...


I must admit r822 that whatever disadvantages rotaries may have IMO they trump all others with their versality


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

> A big disadvantage with wheel rakes in MY case, the amount of ash (dirt) in my hay is much higher, than a rotary or roll-bar rake. YMMV


Picking the correct wheel rake and setting it correctly will greatly mitigate the ash problem. The key is to have an over sized rake and set the raking wheel adjustment so that the wheels are mostly crop drive. Look at the dirt where the rake has passed. There should not be much in the way of tine marks in the dirt if everything is set right. For what it's worth, the Rowse Ultimate wheel rakes with rubber mounted tines are intended to be a crop drive rake.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Mar 14, 2015)

A wheel rake set to much angle requires excessive down pressure to move the crop IME. Narrow the rake up so the wheels are closer to parallel to direction of travel and the rake will do a good job with very little down pressure thus little to no dirt being raked.


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## BIGDOGSHAY (Oct 8, 2019)

I have 2 bar rakes so I can always go that way if customer wanted, on our own property we bale is heavy alfalfa and orchard grass mix averaging over 4000 lbs to the acre.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

You haven't said yet what you bale with. That kinda makes a difference.


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

I have never been happy with my wheel rake in alfalfa/grass mix. Adds too much ash content to the hay. I prefer my Vermeer bar rake. More consistent windrows, only thing it doesn’t have a ton of flex built into it.


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## Ox76 (Oct 22, 2018)

stack em up said:


> I have never been happy with my wheel rake in alfalfa/grass mix. Adds too much ash content to the hay. I prefer my Vermeer bar rake. More consistent windrows, only thing it doesn't have a ton of flex built into it.


Do you notice any difference in leaf loss between the two rakes?


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## stack em up (Mar 7, 2013)

Ox76 said:


> Do you notice any difference in leaf loss between the two rakes?


I try to take when there is still dew on, very little leaf loss with the bar rake. Can't seem to get my inline wheel rake to not make a rope when there is dew on.


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## r82230 (Mar 1, 2016)

Gearclash said:


> Picking the correct wheel rake and setting it correctly will greatly mitigate the ash problem. The key is to have an over sized rake and set the raking wheel adjustment so that the wheels are mostly crop drive. Look at the dirt where the rake has passed. There should not be much in the way of tine marks in the dirt if everything is set right.


Might be an exception HERE. When I had my x-rake fully open (lighter crop) at 25' wide and +25' long. I don't think I had too many places on my farm that was level enough to have every rake wheel exactly 1" off the ground, so it would only be crop driven. And in lighter hay (-1 ton per acre yield), wouldn't have enough crop to even turn the wheels.

But, as mentioned, this is in MY area, if I had level fields, could definitely be a different story. I have one hill that I left un-raked hay on both ends of the v-rake (each end wheels would be over 12" off the ground. Even my rotary at 9' 8" dia rotor, will leave a little hay it seems on this hill top.

YMMV

Larry


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## Bruce Hopf (Jun 29, 2016)

Last year, I bought a Vermeer VR1022, 10 wheel rake, with the center Kicker. Bought it in mind, for raking 3 - 9 rows together. I found that if you go over 6 miles an hour, it will leave nice fluffy rows, raking the three rows together, but any speeds lower than that, it will Rope the Hay, into rows. 
But it's just like any other piece of equipment, if you don't have it set right, your not going to do a decent, or a good job.
I also have a Fransģaurd Combi Rake, and an Old International Bar Rake, that my Grandfather bought, back in the Late 60's, early 70's, my Uncle bought it from him, and I bought it from my Uncle.
I use the Combi Rake, for Tedding, have it set to do 1 1/2 rows throwing the Hay, to the inside, and turn the Tractor around, and do the other 1 1/2 rows, throwing it close as possible, to the lprviuos 1/12 rows, I just spread out.
With the Old International, I'd have to rake one side of the row, turn around, a d rake the rest of the Hay, into a row.
But One nice thing about the Vermeer VR1022 rake, I can lock out the Center Kicker, and one half of the Rake, and just use One half, of the Rake, to turn over rows, and it will follow the found, nicely in Hills, or Valleys.


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## Gearclash (Nov 25, 2010)

r82230 said:


> Might be an exception HERE. When I had my x-rake fully open (lighter crop) at 25' wide and +25' long. I don't think I had too many places on my farm that was level enough to have every rake wheel exactly 1" off the ground, so it would only be crop driven. And in lighter hay (-1 ton per acre yield), wouldn't have enough crop to even turn the wheels.
> 
> But, as mentioned, this is in MY area, if I had level fields, could definitely be a different story. I have one hill that I left un-raked hay on both ends of the v-rake (each end wheels would be over 12" off the ground. Even my rotary at 9' 8" dia rotor, will leave a little hay it seems on this hill top.
> 
> ...


My thought is if you have uneven ground, no matter what kind of rake you will have the tines hitting the dirt. On the average, a wheel rake will be worse for hitting the dirt overall, but wheel rakes have the ability (usually) to allow the raking wheel or wheels hitting the dirt hard to float up and not make so much dirt fly. Regarding light crop, that is not a problem to clean up with a wheel rake, but getting a nice window is a different matter. You can see in that last video I posted (Rough Raking 2) how much hay was there. The yield was approximately 1/2 a ton per acre. The wheel rake cleaned things up pretty nice, not perfect but adequate. In the same field the Vermeer Twinrake was not cleaning up quite as well, and while it was likely not hitting the dirt quite as much still had to be set to rub the dirt a little to pick up the thin crop. It, however, made a nicer window. I was thinking of this field when I ran across that video of Kuhn stress testing their hay products. I bet you could wreck a tedder and a rotary rake pretty quick out there, it is that rough. I am try to keep my brother's less flexible twin rake work on the nicer part while I do the real gnarly stuff with the wheel rake.


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